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Re: [xmca] Correct link



Sorry, i "jumped" your e-mail...

Once upon a time i tried to draw lines... well, this is RPG, this is not,
this is larp, this is table-top, this is mmorpg and so on...

there are differences, but there are that makes them real close...

In most larps, and even table-top RPGs, the game was not around "getting
stronger", but the game was towards build a good story, or developing the
character... Many people in Europe will present larp as a kind of
performance art...

In many games there are very profound discussions... There are some very
social/political orientation RPG games that take place, for example, in
favelas or something like this... Not all games are "heroes hack and
slashing for gold and glory in a medieval/mythological pastiche"... So in
many games the role-play is used exactly as executives and debate teams uses
them...

And in many cases the fantastical scenario in games are used as metaphor for
"reality"...  And to mix things even more, we have today the so called
pervasive games, where games and "reality" are blurry... this reminds me of
"perejivanie"...

So no, larp and RPG are not just D&D and its clones... and there are many
similarities between what you call role-play and what i call role play... in
a "psychological" point of view, for me, the major difference is in the
online/eletronic media relation of the participants

Today i was playing a medieval magus in 1220 in south france discussing how
we would deal with the logistics of a merchant expedition to Barcelona in an
online forum... despite the fact that it is in 1220 and my character can do
"magic" (that will not change anything in the expedition), it is a business
discussion....

wagner


On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 5:04 PM, Mark Chen <markchen@u.washington.edu>wrote:

> Forgive me if I misunderstand, but to me LARPing and the online
> role-playing
> that Richard Beach is describing are very different.
> But maybe I should question why I feel this way, and I should say that I am
> not an expert with LARPing, so could be wrong.
>
> afaik, LARPing comes from a tradition of fantasy role-playing games (think
> D&D) where the "role-playing" bit (assuming predefined motivations, goals,
> dispositions, etc.) must be situated in an imagined event or story where
> players do what they think their character with those attributes would do.
>
> This goes hand-in-hand with the "games" bit. What I mean is that most of
> this tradition of paper-n-pencil gaming emphasizes some sort of way to keep
> track of progress, rewarding play with experience points, levels, loot,
> etc.
> such that the purpose for a lot of gamers is to continually build on their
> characters, making them more and more powerful.
>
> I've always understood LARPing as an extension to the paper-n-pencil
> tradition, adding costumes and real-world locations, etc. but still focused
> on story and reward. To me, the term "role-playing" that Richard describes
> in the paper is more akin to how businesses or debate teams use the term.
> Take a position in a controversial argument, provide evidence and warrants
> for the position, etc.
>
> Are these not different?
>
> mark
>
> On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 11:25 AM, Richard Beach <rbeach@umn.edu> wrote:
>
> > Here's a link that works to my article: http://tinyurl.com/y8orntp
> >
> > Beach, R., & Doerr-Stevens, C.  (2009).  Learning Argument Practices
> > Through
> > Online Role-Play: Toward a Rhetoric of Significance and Transformation.
> > Journal of Adolescent & Adult Literacy, 52(6)
> >
> >
> > On 7/20/10 5:19 AM, "Wagner Schmit" <mcfion@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > A list of book about Live Action Role Play (larp) in Nordic countries
> > >
> > >
> > >    - Morten Gade, Line Thorup & Mikkel Sander (eds.): *As Larp Grows
> Up*.
> > >    Knudepunkt 2003. ISBN
> > > 87-989377-0-7<
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/8798937707>.
> > >    http://www.laivforum.dk/kp03_book/
> > >    - Markus Montola & Jaakko Stenros (eds.): *Beyond Role and Play*.
> > >    Solmukohta 2004. ISBN
> > > 952-91-6842-X<
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/952916842X>.
> > >    http://www.ropecon.fi/brap/
> > >    - Petter Bøckman & Ragnhild Hutchison (eds.): *Dissecting Larp*.
> > >    Knutepunkt 2005. ISBN
> > > 82-997102-0-0<
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/8299710200>(pri
> > > nt)
> > > ISBN
> > >
> > > 82-997102-1-9<
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/8299710219>(onl
> > > ine)
> > >    http://knutepunkt.laiv.org/kp05/
> > >    - Thorbiörn Fritzon & Tobias Wrigstad (eds.) : *Role, Play, Art*.
> > >    Knutpunkt 2006. ISBN
> > > 91-631-8853-8<
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/9163188538>.
> > >    http://jeepen.org/kpbook/
> > >    - Jesper Donnis, Morten Gade & Line Thorup (eds.): *Lifelike*.
> > Knudepunkt
> > >    2007. ISBN
> > > 978-87-989377-1-5<
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/97887989377
> > > 15>.
> > >    http://www.liveforum.dk/kp07book/
> > >    - Jaakko Stenros & Markus Montola (eds.): *Playground Worlds*.
> > Solmukohta
> > >    2008. ISBN
> > > 978-952-92-3579-7<
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/97895292357
> > > 97>(print)
> > > ISBN
> > >
> > > 978-952-92-3580-3<
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/97895292358
> > > 03>(pdf)
> > >    http://www.ropecon.fi/pw/
> > >    - Matthijs Holter, Eirik Fatland & Even Tømte (eds.): *Larp, the
> > Universe
> > >    and Everything*. Knutepunkt 2009. ISBN
> > > 978-82-997102-2-0<
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/97882997102
> > > 20>
> > >    http://knutepunkt.laiv.org/2009/book/
> > >    - Larsson, Elge (ed.): *Playing Reality*. Knutpunkt 2010 |
> Interacting
> > >
> > > Arts<
> >
> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Interacting_Arts&action=edit&re
> > > dlink=1>.
> > >    ISBN
> > > 978-91-977140-1-3<
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/97891977140
> > > 13>(print)
> > > ISBN
> > >
> > > 978-91-977140-2-0<
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/97891977140
> > > 20>(pdf)
> > >
> > > http://interactingarts.org/pdf/Playing%20Reality%20(2010).pdf<http://interactingarts.org/pdf/Playing%20Reality%20%282010%29.pdf>
> <
> > http://interacti
> > > ngarts.org/pdf/Playing%20Reality%20%282010%29.pdf>
> > >
> > > There are some articles about education in some of them, and in the
> 2008
> > and
> > > 2009 books there are articles about a school that uses larp as an
> > > educational methodology
> > >
> > > Wagner
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 12:44 AM, mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > >> This story from the *NY Times* knocked my socks off for the similarity
> > of
> > >> underlying intuitions of these play-themed camps and the playworld's
> > work
> > >> of
> > >> many members on XMCA. Check it out.
> > >> mike
> > >>
> > >> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > >> Date: Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 5:50 PM
> > >> Subject: NYTimes.com: At Camp, Make-Believe Worlds Spring Off Page
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>        [image: The New York Times] <http://www.nytimes.com/> [image:
> > >> E-mail
> > >> This] <
> > >>
> >
> http://www.nytimes.com/adx/bin/adx_click.html?type=goto&opzn&page=www.nytimes
> > >>
> >
> .com/yr/mo/day/nyregion&pos=TopRight-EmailThis&sn2=4030e7/a5673cc0&sn1=c986f8
> > >>
> >
> 02/7d9f9dac&camp=foxsearch2010_emailtools_1225558b_nyt5&ad=Cyrus_88x31_NowPla
> > >> ying_06.18&goto=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Efoxsearchlight%2Ecom%2Fcyrus
> > >>>
> > >> *This page was sent to you by: * mcole@ucsd.edu
> > >>
> > >>  * N.Y. / REGION *   | July 17, 2010
> > >>  * At Camp, Make-Believe Worlds Spring Off Page
> > >> <http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/17/nyregion/17camp.html?emc=eta1> *
> > >>  By SHARON OTTERMAN
> > >>  Role-playing literary camps, like Camp Half-Blood in Brooklyn, are
> > >> sprouting up around the nation.
> > >>           Advertisement
> > >> *Cyrus* - An official selection of the Sundance Film Festival.
> Starring
> > >> John
> > >> C. Reilly, Jonah Hill, and Marisa Tomei.
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> > >> Click here to view
> > >> trailer<
> > >>
> >
> http://www.nytimes.com/adx/bin/adx_click.html?type=goto&opzn&page=www.nytimes
> > >>
> >
> .com/yr/mo/day/nyregion&pos=Center1&sn2=4f6e4524/480412f1&sn1=296914fc/8b8414
> > >>
> >
> 87&camp=foxsearch2010_emailtools_1225558g_nyt5&ad=Cyrus_120x60_NowPlaying_Ema
> > >> ilText_06.18&goto=http://www.foxsearchlight.com/cyrus
> > >>>
> > >> <
> > >>
> >
> http://www.nytimes.com/adx/bin/adx_click.html?type=goto&opzn&page=www.nytimes
> > >>
> >
> .com/yr/mo/day/nyregion&pos=Center1&sn2=4f6e4524/480412f1&sn1=296914fc/8b8414
> > >>
> >
> 87&camp=foxsearch2010_emailtools_1225558g_nyt5&ad=Cyrus_120x60_NowPlaying_Ema
> > >> ilText_06.18&goto=http://www.foxsearchlight.com/cyrus
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>          Copyright 2010
> > >> <http://www.nytimes.com/ref/membercenter/help/copyright.html> The New
> > York
> > >> Times Company <http://www.nytco.com/> | Privacy
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> > >> _______________________________________________
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> > >>
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> >
>
>
>
> --
> Mark Chen | @mcdanger | markdangerchen.net
> PhC | Games Ethnographer | LIFE Center | UW Education
> This was sent from a PC with a full-size keyboard; misspellings and brevity
> are entirely my fault.
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