Re: [xmca] Natural/Cultural Lines/

[Wagner Schmit <mcfion@gmail.com>]

Don't know if i'm putting this in the right context, and the lecturer is
suer exaggerating things... But maybe it helps in the discussion... or not
=P

http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/vs_ramachandran_the_neurons_that_shaped_civilization.html

Wagner


On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 2:42 PM, mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks Peter. Interesting.
> What I am trying to figure out is Vygotsky's theory of concept formation
> and
> recent posts that have introduced new (for me) distinctions as a way to
> understand, say, the concept formation process described in chapter 5-6 of
> T&S.
>
> Re the example. I have no doubt that there was nothing wrong with my taste
> buds and  my wife and i appeared to establish "intersubjectivity" that the
> soup was yummy in a special way.
>
> Our language does not allow us to put it into words. Perhaps a great chef
> would be able to talk to another chef about it, like expert wine tasters.
>
> One question is -- what is the state of our cognitive processes here?
> Another question concerns imagination. I am thinking, tentatively, that our
> imaginations WERE impaired.
> Anyway, an example of the experiencable, the shareably experienceable, but
> not formulatable in language.
> mike
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 8:58 AM, smago <smago@uga.edu> wrote:
>
> > On the topic of minestrone soup.....some friends and I have a book on
> > teaching writing coming out this fall. One chapter deals with teaching
> > middle school kids ways to use sensory detail in their writing. From that
> > chapter (written by one of my coauthors):
> >
> > Our sense of taste is limited to discriminating salt, sweet, sour, and
> > bitter. In contrast, the olfactory sense is capable of discriminating
> over
> > ten thousand scents. Despite the large number of scents humans can
> > discriminate, the English language is nearly devoid of words to describe
> > smells. We have such words as fruity, resinous, flowery, spicy, putrid,
> and
> > burnt to describe major categories of smells. Unfortunately, these words,
> > and a few others, such as rancid, fecund, acrid, fetid, fragrant, sweet,
> and
> > redolent nearly complete our vocabulary of smells in English. Many odors
> are
> > simply named by whatever it is that generates them: carnations, the
> > cheesecake factory, the chemistry class, and so on.
> > Edgar Allen Poe was a master of using sensory details for effect. Yet in
> > "The Pit and the Pendulum" he barely uses the sense of smell, even though
> > his narrator can see virtually nothing. Poe describes two important odors
> in
> > terms of the substances that give rise to them: "The vapor of heated
> iron! A
> > suffocating odor," which emanated from the heated walls of the dungeon,
> and
> > "the peculiar smell of decayed fungus" rising from the pit. His
> description
> > of smells is limited to a few general adjectives and the naming of
> > particular odoriferous objects.
> >
> > So Mike, describing odors and tastes seems to be a problem embedded in
> the
> > language, rather than one of your imagination or gustatory
> discrimination.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
> On
> > Behalf Of mike cole
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 11:46 AM
> > To: eXtended Mind, Culture,Activity
> > Subject: [xmca] Natural/Cultural Lines/
> >
> > I would like to take up Steve Gabosch's suggestion a few days back that
> the
> > discussion about precepts/concepts etc be viewed in terms of the natural(
> > phylogenetic) and cultural (socio-historical) lines of development a la
> LSV.
> > There are a lot of aspects to the discussion I am still finding confusing
> > and am struggling to related to LSV's writings. But I am hoping it will
> help
> > to consider recent work in what are referred to as the "social
> > neurosciences." A variety of this work (I attach some examples, one a
> > review) appears to make an argument that there are levels of processing
> > information about the self and the environment, including others in the
> > environment, that do not reach the level of the cortex and happen very
> > rapidly, perhaps involving cortical processes in a later stage of
> processing
> > -- or so the story goes. These "cognitive" phenomena appear to akin to
> what
> > people are discussing about percepts.
> >
> > On this topic domenstically (as in dinner last night). We had a great
> > ministrone that both my wife and I found especially delicious. But we
> could
> > not, even in extended discussion, name the apparently shared feeling of
> > excellent taste. We could remember the ingredients, speculate and what
> might
> > have led to the neat combination, but could not name "it" although we
> could
> > both distinguish it.
> >
> > For those interested.
> > mike
> >
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