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Re: [xmca] obuchenie and the interaction's eye view of learning

Hi Gregory [and Michael, Luis, Martin, Mike, and Dot]
This discussion on the zpd and Martin's question of the ontology of social practices for the zpd is at the center of my questions about the zpd.  
Gregory, I also like Goffman's theory of interaction but I don't think we can loose sight of the actors.
However the question of where the sense of "agency" [volition] is grounded seems of central importance to notions of the zpd [located in the child or in social pracices]
Michael and Luis point out there is "insufficient attention to the CO-CONSTITUTIVE nature of subjective consciousness and COLLECTIVE consciousness. 
Now Dot's translation of Gennadi's article captures the collective [and MORAL] construction of the zpd. What I found fascinating was the use of PAIR teachers and how each teacher takes a particular position in creating PARTICULAR situated types of zpd's with specific moral interactions.

Gregory, it is this concrete ans specific articulation of specific collective moral zpd that make Dot's article so interesting. She is taking a position on what "kinds of persons" we want to emerge in social practices.


----- Original Message -----
From: Gregory Allan Thompson <gathomps@uchicago.edu>
Date: Friday, April 16, 2010 1:15 pm
Subject: [xmca] obuchenie and the interaction's eye view of learning
To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu

> To rather naively (and quickly) throw out a suggestion for
> English speakers that might capture some of the nuance of
> obuchenie, I wonder if "learning interaction" might do some of
> this work. I don't think the words do all of the work
> themselves, but if one points to the concept of "interaction"
> as used in Chemistry, this might get a little more traction.
> As a rather classic example (maybe a bit "tired" for some on
> the listserve) consider: when the highly volatile Sodium atom
> is brought together with the poisonous Chloride atom, the
> result is a rather innocuous compound that can be liberally
> sprinkled on the lip of a Margarita glass to be imbibed along
> with the makings of a Margarita. So which element is
> responsible for the saltiness? Now imagine bringing together a
> volatile teacher and a poisonous student and the possibility
> for a "salty" teaching interaction -- okay one shouldn't take
> one's metaphors too far... But the idea of "emergence" seems
> critical here.
> This is why I find Goffman's work so intriguing. He is willing
> to forget about the actors and focus at the level of the
> interaction and the stuff that emerges in and out of the
> interaction (and Goffman started his academic career at the
> University of Manitoba intending to study Chemistry!). It
> seems that this interaction's eye view of things is what is
> needed in order to see the importance of the "between" teacher
> and student.
> Anyway, I suggest this rather naively since I suspect that
> this is probably different in some very important ways from
> what is meant by obuchenie, but I am not well enough informed
> about obuchenie to identify what these differences might be.
> Does anyone have any suggestions?
> -greg
> ---------------------------------------
> Greg Thompson
> Ph.D. Candidate
> The Department of Comparative Human Development
> The University of Chicago
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