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Re: [xmca] About emotions - compilation from nov. 24 to dec. 01 - 2009

Hi, Larry.

I must confess that I'm unfamiliar with Steve Odin's book and his attempt
to relate
Zen Buddhism and American Pragmatism, but it strikes me as a fascinating
enterprise. That he should place the relation between the "I" and the "me"
at the
center of his thinking seems quite reasonable to me. LSV did the same
thing, in
my opinion, by placing private speech at the center of his theory of the
development of the higher psychological processes.

A question that keeps returning to me as I study private speech development
is: "Who is talking to Whom?".  At first, I was swayed by the writings of
R. D. Laing
to believe that each individual has many different "selves", and that
speech enables one to connect these selves by puttting them into verbal
with one another. In that way, the various selves can become integrated
into one
personality, one identity. But later, I began to wonder if it is a mistake
to look upon
the various selves from a *spatial* perspective; perhaps there is only one
and it is in a *temporal* relation with the "self" of one moment and the
"self" of
the next moment. That is, we each "lead ourself" down a path using private
That latter interpretation fits better with the kind of private speech that
children emit
when they are alone and trying to solve a challenging cognitive problem.

At present, I'm not sure if it makes much difference which of those two
one chooses, for neither resolves the question of who is speaking to whom.
perhaps it is more productive to look at the form of relation that binds
the speaker
and the listener together.

If private speech activity is, indeed, a form of conversational activity,
then both
the "I" and the "me" are being placed into a social relation by virtue of
the social
conventions that cultures have created for conducting and managing
>From the perspective of the *development* of private and inner speech, LSV
places greater emphasis on the inward movement from speech to thought
(i.e., listening)
than on the outward movement from thought to speech (i.e., speaking). To
me, that
suggests that he saw the "me" as more of a focal point than the "I" where
private speech
conversation is concerned. Private speech is not so much about the self who
is speaking,
but about the self who is the intended listener.

I doubt that any of these musings are going to be of any help to you, but
since you
were curious . . . .


             Larry Purss                                                   
             Sent by:                                                   To 
             xmca-bounces@webe         "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"  
             r.ucsd.edu                <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>               
             12/02/2009 01:13                                      Subject 
             PM                        Re: [xmca] About emotions -         
                                       compilation from nov. 24 to dec. 01 
                                       - 2009                              
             Please respond to                                             
              "eXtended Mind,                                              

Hi Peter
Your question about the RELATION between language and emotion triggers
another relational question that goes back to Mead and the "I -me"
A scholar named Steve Odin has constructed an elaborate conversation
between the discourses of Zen Buddhism and American Pragmatism.  He
documents the "social turn" in contempory elaborations of Zen Buddhist
The question at the heart of his book "The Social Turn in Zen Buddhism and
American Pragmatism" is the cultural-historical mediation of the RELATION
BETWEEN the "I" and the "ME" in the phenomenology of our "selves".   This
perspective puts relational and sociocultural perspectives at the heart of
phenomenology and the heart of subjectivity.  Constructs such as
"relational" "process" dynamic" need to be interpreted within different
discourses and disciplines but to me the common theme is the movement
beyond a worldview of "possessive" individualism, (what Anna Sfard calls
the "aquisitional" epistemology) to an emerging "participatory"
epistemology and worldview.


Just wondering and curious

 Original Message -----
From: Peter Feigenbaum <pfeigenbaum@fordham.edu>
Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009 8:47 am
Subject: Re: [xmca] About emotions - compilation from nov. 24 to dec. 01 -
To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
Cc: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu

> Wow. Thanks, Achilles, for providing such a stimulating topic for
> discussion.
> The contributions from the group have supplied marvelous food
> for thought.
> One idea that this discussion evoked in me that was not really
> touched upon
> by others concerns the relation between language and emotion. I was
> reminded
> of John Dore (a linguist who investigated the development of
> children'sconversational skills), who used to tell his students
> that "emotion rides
> on the
> back of words". He believed a speaker's tone of voice
> communicates an
> emotional message, and that the words chosen are intended to
> reinforce that
> emotional message with cognitive content.
> At least, that's the case when adults speak to children. To make the
> message
> easier to understand, adults tend to formulate their speech to
> children in
> such
> a way as to make the verbal message consistent with the tone-of-voice
> message.
> This  consistency between the two channels makes the
> emotional message less
> complicated for children to grasp. Adult-to-adult speech, on the other
> hand, often
> involves messages that conflict, with the tone of voice
> communicating an
> emotional
> message that is inconsistent with the linguistic expression.
> Using these
> channels
> strategically makes it possible to communicate an emotional
> message of one
> kind (for example, communion) with a verbal message that is in
> some way at
> odds
> with it (such as non-compliance).
> This state of affairs makes me think that expressing emotion is
> very much
> at the
> functional heart or center of human verbal communication, and
> that the
> development
> of word meaning introduces the possibility of both extending that
> expression into
> the cognitive domain where it can be further articulated, and also
> complicating it
> by surrounding it with additional messages.
> Anyway, thanks again for the thoroughly enjoyable thread!
> Best wishes,
> Peter
> Peter Feigenbaum, Ph.D.
> Associate Director of Institutional Research
> Fordham University
> Thebaud Hall-202
> Bronx, NY 10458
> Phone: (718) 817-2243
> Fax: (718) 817-3203
> e-mail: pfeigenbaum@fordham.edu

>              Achilles Delari

>              Junior

>              <achilles_delari@
>              hotmail.com>              "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"

>              Sent by:                  <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>, Achilles

>              xmca-bounces@webe         Delari Junior

>              r.ucsd.edu                <achilles_delari@hotmail.com>


>              12/01/2009 10:35
>              PM                        [xmca] About emotions -
>                                        from nov. 24 to dec. 01 - 2009


>              Please respond to

>               "eXtended Mind,

>                  Culture,

>                  Activity"

>              <xmca@weber.ucsd.

>                    edu>



> Hi XMCA,
> I compiled all the posts to "XMCA - ABOUT EMOTIONS",
> includind "emotion and culture" and all related to topic.
> from November, 24 to December, 01, 2009. There was
> 82 posts, in chronological order, with all authors indenti-
> fication, in pdf format - 46 pages.
> If you wish.
> Thank you,
> Achilles.
> P.S. I can update later.
> _________________________________________________________________
> Navegue com segurança com o Novo Internet Explorer 8. Baixe
> agora, é
> gratis!

> [attachment "XMCA - About emotions - from nov 24 to dec. 01, 2009.pdf"
> deleted by Peter Feigenbaum/STAFF/FIRE]
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