The position about emotions from Vygotky that I quote twice is on the Volume 6, this is the same volume in English and Russian. That that I quote about the problem of organism and world, I find in Russian too, but me e-book don´t permit copy and paste. If you want the chapter of Volume six... With Chabrier, etc., that I attached here at the begging This is attached here again. Thank your for your questions. Best. Achilles. > Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 18:57:19 +1100 > From: ablunden@mira.net > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu > Subject: Re: [xmca] about emotions > > Achilles, I am looking at the English version in LSV CW v.3. > I can't find the passage you quote, but I see on p. 155 that > Vygotsky puts "other somatic reactions that form the basis > of emotion" in the same category as "the first component of > an organism's perception of this environmental influence." > > Personally, I don't think emotion has anything to do with > instinct or higher vs lower mental functions. We perceive > the reaction of our body and that affects our thinking and > our whole process of perception, just like our vision does. > Vygotsky compares it to inner speech actually. :) > > Andy > > Achilles Delari Junior wrote: > > Andy, > > > > I think that Vygotsky was trying to solve the problem of > > dualism in theory of emotions. He worked with the principle > > of "psychophysical unit" - the "main principle of Soviet psychology" > > in the words from Rubinshtein. The difference between > > the cognitive and the instinctive is not because the cognitive > > have not physiological conditions, but the complexity of that > > conditions and it mediated character... Vygotsky said that > > "the psyche do not appears isolated from the world or from > > the process form organism neither for a 0,001 second" (1926/1991 > > - Prólogo a la versión russa del libro de E. Thorndike 'Principios > > de enseñanza basados a la psicología - this is the Volume I > > of the Works in Russian and Spanish, I don't remeber the number > > in English, because they do not follow the Russian numeration). > > You can see that psyche are not isolated from the organism and > > not isolated from the world. In fact human beens are constituted > > by the same substance that the world, we are not an "Impire inside > > the impire" - but to be the same substance do not means that we > > are in the same way... the same "mode" - I Spinoza´s words. > > Vygotsky fight against a dualistic approach to emotions. And to > > him James is an "involuntary disciple of Descartes" because his > > especial emphasis in cultural feelings as spiritual process. Much > > common even today. > > > > I only don't uderstand why you say that there is a problem that > > I am trying to solve. If cognition have not material support what > > kind of substance is cognition? This is not a problem, the problem > > is how to understand ideological, historical, conscious, cultural, > > constitution of human emotions in his/her whole personality without > > repeat a dualistic approach. I understand this problem is not only > > mine... this is a problem posed by Vygotsky himself. And I only > > agree that is good question... I don't if Damasio already answer that. > > Can you tell me who did? > > > > Achilles. > > > >> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 17:56:10 +1100 > >> From: ablunden@mira.net > >> To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu > >> Subject: Re: [xmca] about emotions > >> > >> But you still need a distinction between a physiological > >> reaction and a cognitive disposition, don't you, Achilles? > >> > >> What is the specific problem you are trying to solve? > >> > >> Andy > >> > >> Achilles Delari Junior wrote: > >>> Jay, > >>> > >>> Thank you very much. > >>> > >>> Something near to this distinction between feelings and emotions > >>> was posed by William James too, according Vygotsky, but James > >>> saw this distinction in terms that these social dimension of affective > >>> world, the higher feelings, have almost nothing related to biological, > >>> physiological, material, body, conditions. And Vygotsky criticizes > >>> this like a way of dualistic thinking - this dualism can be understood > >>> as based in ideological motivations too: "the human is not an animal, > >>> nor a material been, but a divine been, in his higher, superior feelings..." > >>> > >>> A distinction between feelings and emotions is present in Damasio too > >>> in neurofunctional terms... But Vygotsky proposed the question of > >>> a systemic inter-relationship in that the lower can turns higher, and > >>> vice versa... I don't know what we can thing about this... In this > >>> case, distinction between feelings and emotions are useful, but if > >>> we want to understand the entire human been, his/her whole personality, > >>> the integration and inter-functional relations between feelings and > >>> emotions turns relevant too, In my point of view. > >>> > >>> Best wishes. > >>> Achilles. > >>> > >>> > >>>> From: jaylemke@umich.edu > >>>> To: lchcmike@gmail.com; xmca@weber.ucsd.edu > >>>> Subject: Re: [xmca] about emotions > >>>> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 19:28:26 -0800 > >>>> CC: > >>>> > >>>> I am certainly one of those people interested in emotion, or feeling, > >>>> or affect, or whatever we choose to make of the phenomenon. > >>>> > >>>> The topic seems to have historically accumulated a lot of ideological > >>>> baggage. And while its expression may be more sophisticated today than > >>>> in times past, there doesn't seem to be that much less of it (as for > >>>> example in the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy review noted by > >>>> someone earlier). > >>>> > >>>> Emotion tends to be seen as bad in our philosophical tradition. As the > >>>> enemy of reason, the motor of self-deception, etc. It links us to the > >>>> animals, to our "baser" nature, etc. A bit of this in the pagan > >>>> tradition, a lot of it in christian asceticism, and tons of it in > >>>> Enlightenment rationalism and its successors. > >>>> > >>>> Emotions are also associated with the unreliable feminine vs. the cool > >>>> and collected masculine, with the passions of the mob vs. the > >>>> thoughtful elite, with peasants, workers, and children, and pretty > >>>> much every social category whose oppression needs some legitimation. > >>>> Indeed one of the near universal legitimations of elite power is "we > >>>> know what's good for you", not just because of what we know, but > >>>> because you can't be trusted to see your own best interests through > >>>> the haze of your emotions. > >>>> > >>>> Useful as this is to elite interests, it combines further with the > >>>> cult of individualism to make emotions a purely individual, mental, > >>>> subjective matter. Non-material, non-social, non-cultural, and > >>>> universal (the easier to apply the stigma of emotionality to non- > >>>> European cultures). It is rather hard to crawl out of this pit of mud. > >>>> > >>>> As I've been trying to do for the last year or two. There would be too > >>>> much to say for a short post on this list, but here are a few basic > >>>> suggestions: > >>>> > >>>> Feeling is a broad enough category to get back to the phenomenology of > >>>> affect/emotion, whereas "emotion" is too narrowly defined within the > >>>> tradition of animal-like and universal. > >>>> > >>>> There are a LOT of different feelings, and that is more important than > >>>> efforts to identify some small number of basic emotions. > >>>> > >>>> Many feelings are associated with evaluative judgments and this may be > >>>> a key link to re-unify affective and cognitive. > >>>> > >>>> Feelings do differ significantly across cultures, and are part of a > >>>> larger system of meanings-and-feelings specific to a community. > >>>> > >>>> You can't make meanings across any longer term process of reasoning > >>>> without feelings and evaluative judgments. > >>>> > >>>> It is likely that feelings have histories, both in cultures and in > >>>> individuals. > >>>> > >>>> Feelings are often reliable guides to survival, to adaptive action, > >>>> and to finding ways to meet our needs. > >>>> > >>>> Feelings are just as situated and distributed as are cognitions. And > >>>> just as active and actively made and produced. > >>>> > >>>> In short -- pretty much everything in our dominant tradition about > >>>> emotions and feelings is exactly wrong -- and for the worst possible > >>>> ideological-political reasons, I believe. > >>>> > >>>> JAY. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Jay Lemke > >>>> Professor (Adjunct, 2009-2010) > >>>> Educational Studies > >>>> University of Michigan > >>>> Ann Arbor, MI 48109 > >>>> www.umich.edu/~jaylemke > >>>> > >>>> Visiting Scholar > >>>> Laboratory for Comparative Human Communication > >>>> University of California -- San Diego > >>>> La Jolla, CA > >>>> USA 92093 > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Nov 26, 2009, at 8:08 AM, mike cole wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> With so much interest in achieving an integrated understanding of > >>>>> emotion, > >>>>> cognition, and development, Achilles, your focus on this topic is a > >>>>> helpful > >>>>> reminder of its continued importance. > >>>>> > >>>>> Seems like one of those many areas in psychological research where > >>>>> we cannot > >>>>> keep from murdering to dissect. > >>>>> mike > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> xmca mailing list > >>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu > >>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> xmca mailing list > >>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu > >>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca > >>> > >>> _________________________________________________________________ > >>> Novo site do Windows Live: Novidades, dicas dos produtos e muito mais. Conheça! > >>> http://www.windowslive.com.br/?ocid=WindowsLive09_MSN_Hotmail_Tagline_out09_______________________________________________ > >>> xmca mailing list > >>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu > >>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca > >>> > >> -- > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> Andy Blunden http://www.erythrospress.com/ > >> Classics in Activity Theory: Hegel, Leontyev, Meshcheryakov, > >> Ilyenkov $20 ea > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> xmca mailing list > >> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu > >> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Agora a pressa é amiga da perfeição. Chegou o Windows 7. Conheça! > > http://www.microsoft.com/brasil/windows7/default.html?WT.mc_id=1539_______________________________________________ > > xmca mailing list > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca > > > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden http://www.erythrospress.com/ > Classics in Activity Theory: Hegel, Leontyev, Meshcheryakov, > Ilyenkov $20 ea > > _______________________________________________ > xmca mailing list > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca _________________________________________________________________ Converse e compartilhe fotos ao mesmo tempo. Saiba como no novo Site de Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com.br/?ocid=WindowsLive09_MSN_Hotmail_Tagline_out09
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