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RE: [xmca] Emotions and methodology







Thank you, Mike and Martin. I will have a look.



 

 


> Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 08:07:17 -0800
> Subject: Re: [xmca] Emotions and methodology
> From: lchcmike@gmail.com
> To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> 
> Attached is the paper martin refers to. But where is the equivalent to the
> indented passage from the Soviet Psych translation and p. 310 vol 3 of
> collected works (in English?). I may have vol 3 in Russian at work and can
> check, but it appears to me, as indicated elsewhere in the discussion, that
> this methodological/ontological chit chat comes from recent British writing,
> the relationship of which to LSV's writing in cited passages is not clear to
> me.
> mike
> 
> On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 6:35 AM, Martin Packer <packer@duq.edu> wrote:
> 
> > Mabel,
> >
> > Yes, this is where LSV insists on the importance of not confusing
> > epistemological issues with ontological ones. It's one of the more puzzling
> > passages in Crisis, and I suspect there are some problems with the
> > translation. (Is the indented passage a quotation from Hoffding? Does anyone
> > have that text?) Nothing here about methodological dualism, however. I don't
> > think this passage is the place to start to understand better the
> > distinction between epistemology and ontology, if that is what you want to
> > do.
> >
> > Martin
> >
> > You might consider taking a look here (if so tell me whether or not it
> > helps):
> >
> > Packer, M. J., & Goicoechea, J. (2000). Sociocultural and constructivist
> > theories of learning: Ontology, not just epistemology. Educational
> > Psychologist, 35(4), 227-241.
> >
> >
> > On Nov 14, 2009, at 11:45 PM, Mabel Encinas wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Martin,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Here it is (Andy sent it to me, I have it in hardcopy Vol 3 of Vygotsky's
> > Collected Works, p. 310):
> > http://marx.org/archive/vygotsky/works/crisis/psycri13.htm#p1367
> > >
> > >
> > > Mabel
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> Subject: Re: [xmca] Emotions and methodology
> > >> From: packer@duq.edu
> > >> Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 18:42:06 -0500
> > >> To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > >>
> > >> Mabel,
> > >>
> > >> I confess I don't recognize the term methodological dualism. Where are
> > you finding this?
> > >>
> > >> Martin
> > >>
> > >> On Nov 14, 2009, at 5:45 PM, Mabel Encinas wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> My question to Andy was if he could please give me some references
> > about the difference-relation between ontological and methodological
> > dualism? I was aimed to get some contemporary references to this discussion.
> > I already had read Vygotsky. Does anyone has a suggestion, please?
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Thank you,
> > >>> Mabel
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>> Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 08:56:07 -0800
> > >>>> Subject: Re: [xmca] Hello Other Brain, how are you?
> > >>>> From: lchcmike@gmail.com
> > >>>> To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > >>>>
> > >>>> There was a discussion of this topic around your MCA article a while
> > back,
> > >>>> Michael. Mabel might be able to use some of the specific techniques,
> > which,
> > >>>> I recall, were not too demading in terms of technology, to find a
> > bridge to
> > >>>> what her advisors expect.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Martin's sources are right on. But Mabel is going to have to negotiate
> > the
> > >>>> rocky
> > >>>> shoals of her own institutional situation, and invoking XMCA is not
> > likely
> > >>>> to win her a lot of friends!!
> > >>>>
> > >>>> mike
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 8:16 AM, Wolff-Michael Roth <mroth@uvic.ca>
> > wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> In the following piece, we show how emotion (as evidenced in prosody)
> > is a
> > >>>>> resource for the coordination of social action. Michael
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Cult Stud of Sci Educ
> > >>>>> DOI 10.1007/s11422-009-9203-8
> > >>>>> Solidarity and conflict: aligned and misaligned prosody
> > >>>>> as a transactional resource in intra- and intercultural
> > >>>>> communication involving power differences
> > >>>>> Wolff-Michael Roth Æ Kenneth Tobin
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> here
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On 2009-11-14, at 6:55 AM, Martin Packer wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I'm going to ignore Andy's request to ignore his message to Mabel,
> > because
> > >>>>> I'm sure Mabel is not the only person being told this sort of thing.
> > The
> > >>>>> claim, I suppose, is that emotion is a subjective experience, and
> > therefore
> > >>>>> something mental, internal, personal, private and so inaccessible to
> > other
> > >>>>> people, including the researcher, who has access only to the external
> > >>>>> 'expression' of that emotion, on the face, in movements, etc.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Nonsense. How to argue against that view? Take a look at Joe de
> > Rivera's
> > >>>>> work on emotions as interpersonal movements, towards or away from
> > people on
> > >>>>> three interpersonal dimensions of intimacy, openness, and status.
> > Read Hall
> > >>>>> and Cobey (1976) on emotion as transformation of the world. Read
> > Mead's
> > >>>>> Mind, Self and Society where he challenges Darwin, insisting that "we
> > >>>>> cannot approach them [emotions] from the point of view of expressing
> > a
> > >>>>> content in the mind of the individual" (p. 17) because to do so
> > presumes a
> > >>>>> dualism between consciousness and the biological organism.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> These are some resources that come immediately to my mind. What can
> > others
> > >>>>> out there recommend?
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Martin
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On Nov 14, 2009, at 4:42 AM, Andy Blunden wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> You have good muses Mabel (Vygotsky and Marx), pity you
> > >>>>>> don't have better supervisors. Your approach, studying
> > >>>>>> microsituations as social, is Vygotsky's approach too, I
> > >>>>>> think, and excellent one, that is often, I fear, not well
> > >>>>>> understood. I am probably the last person to ask about that
> > >>>>>> kind of problem as I have a devil of a problem making myself
> > >>>>>> understood. Others will know the answers to your questions
> > >>>>>> better than me, too. But I will mention a few suggestions.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Mabel Encinas wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> My supervisors are questioning now, that I do not study emotions,
> > but
> > >>>>>>> "the expression of emotions". I know how to solidify my argument in
> > this
> > >>>>>>> bit, but could you please give me some references of where should I
> > read
> > >>>>>>> about the difference-relation between ontological and
> > methodological
> > >>>>>>> dualism?
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> I guess you have already read Vygotsky's comments on
> > >>>>>> ontological vs methodological/epistemological dualism:
> > >>>>>> http://marx.org/archive/vygotsky/works/crisis/psycri13.htm#p1367
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> If you use Google on this one, you will probably find a page
> > >>>>>> where I am being attacked by someone called Neville for
> > >>>>>> failing to make this distinction. I am far from sure of the
> > >>>>>> value of that exchange but you are welcome to read it. I
> > >>>>>> would not attempt a short summary of this issue.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> I am not sure what you are being accused of about emotions.
> > >>>>>> Martha Nussbaum is a Critical Theorist who writes good stuff
> > >>>>>> about emotions. And of course everyone reads Antonio
> > >>>>>> Damassio, with his distinction between feelings and
> > >>>>>> emotions. Certainly, emotions are only present in
> > >>>>>> consciousness thanks to their "interpretation" by culturally
> > >>>>>> acquired concepts.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> ""the expression of emotions" is a strange expression to me.
> > >>>>>> Are they using "emotions" to refer to forms of consciousness
> > >>>>>> which are "expressed" in high blood pressure, etc? Or are
> > >>>>>> they using "emotions" to refer to physiological conditions,
> > >>>>>> which are "expressed" in the character of behavior. I don't
> > >>>>>> understand. I am sure others will know. Sounds like a
> > >>>>>> template accusation.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Andy
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>>> xmca mailing list
> > >>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > >>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>
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> > >>>>>
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