Re: [xmca] "I'm sorry, that's just what my brain thinks!" - Neuroscience, Scientism, Neuroism, Neuromyths

[mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>]

Hit and expand, Jerry.
Are there any summaries/reviews of *Mistaken Identity: The Mind-Brain
Problem Reconsidered*? Could you do one for xmca/mca??
mike

On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 7:38 PM, Jerry Balzano <gjbalzano@ucsd.edu> wrote:

> I just wanted to insert an opinionated and possibly inflammatory view, that
> the influence of neuroscience -- not just on "the learning sciences" -- but
> on a much wider gamut of practicing scientists, teachers, laypersons, and
> even that ghostly creature known as the Zeitgeist, has not been altogether
> benign - in fact, far from it.  We see a corruption of our language, wherein
> we increasingly find otherwise intelligent people take agency away from
> persons (not to mention groups) and hand it over to brains.  I've called
> this tendency "brain chauvinism" in my classes; I've also seen it called
> "brainism", and in a recent book by Leslie Brothers with the lovely title
> Mistaken Identity: The Mind-Brain Problem Reconsidered, the author refers to
> it as "neuroism".  It shows itself in particularly egregious form in the
> "Brain-Based Learning" literature (promotional and 'academic'), a
> scientistic attempt to dress up previously unassuming theories, ideas, and
> findings in the flashy garb of the physiological and thereby make it look
> like something that has instantly earned more of your attention and respect,
> when in fact it has actually earned less.
>
> Hitting and running,
> JerryB
>
> - "No supposition seems to me more natural than that there is no process in
> the brain correlated with associating or with thinking."
> - "Note also how sure people are that to the ability to add or to multiply
> or to say a poem by heart, etc., there must correspond a peculiar state of
> the person's brain, although on the other hand they know next to nothing
> about such psycho-physiological correspondences."
> - "It is thus perfectly possible that certain psychological phenomena
> cannot be investigated physiologically, because physiologically nothing
> corresponds to them."
> - “Thinking in terms of physiological processes is extremely dangerous in
> connection with the clarification of conceptual problems in psychology.”
>                        (L. WIttgenstein, various places)
>
>
> On Sep 16, 2009, at 8:24 AM, Monica Hansen wrote:
>
>  I think this plug is well placed because methodology is really central to
>> this discussion. How do we know what we know in any field? The tools and
>> resources that are available and shared in common are the tools that can
>> be
>> used for communication. An old tool maybe used until a new one, a better
>> one
>> is invented. The idea of a computational theory of mind--when this was
>> simplistic, based on a more simple computational machine--input, function,
>> output. One of the best things that happened because of this model was
>> that
>> researchers had to test it. The human brain is not a simple, computational
>> machine! We know this now. Now, one of the words I see most often in
>> discussions of the brain function is "complex". Computational models are
>> evolving to accommodate this. Those who used to think of the development
>> of
>> the human as an individual unit are also realizing that the individual
>> exists within and is a part of a larger system and that must be accounted
>> for in models as well. It is fascinating to see how old ideas re-circulate
>> and feed new work.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On
>> Behalf Of Martin Packer
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:47 AM
>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>> Subject: Re: [xmca] Neuroscience connections to learning and relearning
>>
>> Perhaps this is just a plug for phenomenology, but I can't resist
>> pointing out that Maurice Merleau-Ponty was able to use
>> neurophysiological literature concerning brain-damaged patients (by
>> Head and others) as evidence *against* both a computational theory of
>> mind and biological reductionism. Old habits of thinking certainly die
>> hard, but they *are. habits, not necessary paths for thought.
>>
>> Martin
>>
>>
>> On Sep 16, 2009, at 9:31 AM, Monica Hansen wrote:
>>
>>  Steve:
>>> I like the way you pose the last question: At the same time, some of
>>> the
>>> dominant trends in
>>> contemporary neuroeducational theory seem to revolve around time-worn
>>> biological reductionist ideas - almost with a vengeance.  New bottles,
>>> but some of the same old wine.
>>>
>>> Because the method of the tradition of academic inquiry in the natural
>>> sciences is a strong contributor to work in this area (physiology,
>>> biology,
>>> chemistry, etc) we would expect to see this. What is so great with
>>> this
>>> recent tide of research in neuroscience, is that we are finding more
>>> "evidence" that cannot be explained by the traditional models. Not
>>> the same
>>> old wine--a different wine that needs new packaging; it's just the
>>> production facility only has bottles, labels, the same old equipment.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-
>>> bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On
>>> Behalf Of Steve Gabosch
>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 2:29 AM
>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>>> Subject: Re: [xmca] Neuroscience connections to learning and
>>> relearning
>>>
>>> What interesting books, Emily.  Thank you.
>>>
>>> Virginia Berninger and Todd Richards, who are at the UW Seattle in my
>>> neck of the US woods, say (as revealed by Amazon Books Look Inside) in
>>> the Introduction to this textbook that they rely on Luria:
>>>
>>> "In Parts I and II we lay the groundwork for the complexities of
>>> systems of brains and minds at work and in doing so draw on the work
>>> of a Russian neuropsychologist, A.R. Luria (1973), who introduced the
>>> notion of functional systems of a brain at work.  However, Luria based
>>> his conclusions on study of individuals with brain damage, whereas we
>>> base ours on study of normally developing individuals with and without
>>> learning differences and not on those with brain damage.  Although
>>> Luria did not study the processes of teaching and learning academic
>>> subjects in the same depth or setting as contemporary researchers in
>>> many disciplines do, we credit Luria with the fundamental insight that
>>> multiple brain structures may be involved in one function and that the
>>> same brain structures can participate in more than one functional
>>> system."
>>> p8,  Brain Literacy for Educators and Psychologists (2002)
>>>
>>> Great to see Luria given this credit.  Question:  Where does Luria's
>>> The Working Brain: An Introduction to Neuropsychology (1973) fit in to
>>> this kind of study?  Is his book accessible, is it too out of date,
>>> etc.?
>>>
>>> Thanks much for the attachments.  (I keep getting the same Howard-
>>> Jones article out of the first two attachments, btw).
>>>
>>> Next AERA conference I go to, I will pay some serious attention to
>>> what the people in neuroeducation are doing - there really does appear
>>> to be something burgeoning there.  My take so far ... see what you
>>> think ... is that one can expect all the current major trends in the
>>> general social, life and natural sciences to reappear in this new
>>> interdisciplinary field - but on a new level, reflecting some of the
>>> advances of recent decades, such as an increased awareness of the
>>> central role of cultural experience ... just as, for example,
>>> cognitive science in its developmental years absorbed some of the
>>> newer ideas of its time (computer science, game theory, general
>>> systems theory, etc. etc.).  Neuroeducation seems to be consolidating
>>> the surge in knowledge from research in cognition and learning in
>>> recent decades - and especially, finding ways to theorize about and
>>> apply the vast new research insights that brain imaging technology is
>>> making possible.  At the same time, some of the dominant trends in
>>> contemporary neuroeducational theory seem to revolve around time-worn
>>> biological reductionist ideas - almost with a vengeance.  New bottles,
>>> but some of the same old wine.  Am I in the ballpark?
>>>
>>> - Steve
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 15, 2009, at 9:23 PM, Duvall, Emily wrote:
>>>
>>>  Glad you found it interesting, Steve!
>>>>
>>>> To start, I guess it depends on how much you want to know, but
>>>> generally
>>>> I find it important to work with diagrams and video, some kind of
>>>> visual
>>>> support (I've started to include brain drawings as an assignment in
>>>> my
>>>> class) as well as articles.  The Berninger & Richards text works
>>>> well in
>>>> conjunction with the Brain Coloring Book to get you going. You don't
>>>> have to memorize everything, but it's helpful to understand the macro
>>>> and microstructures from a systems perspective in order to begin to
>>>> bridge the discourse.
>>>>
>>>> Others may have different favorites, but I suggest The Jossey-Bass
>>>> Reader on the Brain and Learning... and (brand new, I haven't read my
>>>> copy): The Educated Brain: Essays in Neuroeducation. Meanwhile, I've
>>>> attached a couple of general articles by Howard-Jones and one of the
>>>> more interesting pieces on VAK by Sharp et al.
>>>>
>>>> As to where this discussion is taking place? I am still relatively
>>>> new
>>>> and don't have any peeps other than those I am cultivating in my
>>>> classes
>>>> and several open minded folks on the neuroscience faculty with
>>>> UIdaho.
>>>>
>>>> ~em
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-
>>>> bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
>>>> On Behalf Of Steve Gabosch
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 7:16 PM
>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>>>> Subject: Re: [xmca] Neuroscience connections to learning and
>>>> relearning
>>>>
>>>> Emily, I much appreciated your links to the Science Daily articles
>>>> and
>>>> the Usha Goswami article.  I learned a lot.  Thanks much, and please
>>>> keep links like this coming!  These are areas I know I would like to
>>>> learn much more about.  A) On astrocytes etc.:   If you had to put
>>>> together a crash course for CHAT-oriented researchers on
>>>> neuroscience,
>>>> what authors, books, articles etc. come to mind that you would draw
>>>> from?  B) As for the overview Goswami offers in her 2006 article
>>>> regarding 1) what neuroscience actually is discovering about learning
>>>> processes and how they might apply to the classroom and 2) what
>>>> neuromyths are emerging along with perhaps other hazards of the
>>>> commercialization of neuroeducation knowledge ... where is more of
>>>> this kind of discussion taking place these days?
>>>>
>>>> - Steve
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sep 15, 2009, at 12:34 PM, Mike Cole wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  Thanks Em-- And I googled Goswami neuromyths. Also very
>>>>> enlightening.
>>>>> Goswami did early work with Ann Brown, former collaborator with us
>>>>> at LCHC.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now if we go back a step and look at the people who created the
>>>>> label of
>>>>> learning sciences, and their backgrounds, the shift from
>>>>> "developmental
>>>>> psychology" to developmental sciences, the appearance recently of
>>>>> the
>>>>> handbook of cultural developmental science, ......... what a
>>>>> tempest! Must
>>>>> be a teapot in there somewhere. Simultaneous, fractilated paradigm
>>>>> shifts?
>>>>>
>>>>> Does anyone have the luxury of being able to organize a science
>>>>> studies
>>>>> interrogation of these movements? Seems really worthwhile.
>>>>> mike
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 12:16 PM, Duvall, Emily <emily@uidaho.edu>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  Thanks Mike... :-)
>>>>>>   In general I like Goswami's work; I find her discussion of
>>>>>> neuromyths compelling and have had my grad students do additional
>>>>>> research on some of them. I am also particularly interested in ways
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> try to negotiate across different fields. I've attached my favorite
>>>>>> Goswami and a nice intro to neuroeducation.
>>>>>>   As a side note: Monica (Hansen, who frequently shows up on the
>>>>>> list serve and is one of my doc students) and I took a neuroscience
>>>>>> journal club/ seminar last spring and found ourselves trying to
>>>>>> make
>>>>>> sense of the work that is done with regard to education. We are
>>>>>> taking
>>>>>> another seminar right now and some of the folks who were in last
>>>>>> year's
>>>>>> class are presenting journal articles in their field, but are
>>>>>> trying to
>>>>>> make the links to human experience, particularly education. It's
>>>>>> been
>>>>>> interesting to discover how open minded the students and faculty
>>>>>> are...
>>>>>> one of the computational neuroscience faculty has taken up some
>>>>>> Vygotsky
>>>>>> reading as well as neuroeducation... of course Luria's work is a
>>>>>> door
>>>>>> opener and a point of mutual interest.
>>>>>>   ~em
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-
>>>>>> bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
>>>>>> On Behalf Of Mike Cole
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 9:41 AM
>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [xmca] Neuroscience connections to learning and
>>>>>> relearning
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No one picked up on your interest in neuroeducation, Emily. A lot
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> what I
>>>>>> read in this area strikes me as almost entirely without any
>>>>>> appreciation
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> education, or human experience, as a culturally mediated, co-
>>>>>> constructed
>>>>>> process. Do you have a favorite general ref you could point us to
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> resonate to??
>>>>>> mike
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 8:50 AM, Duvall, Emily <emily@uidaho.edu>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  I thought some of you might one or both of these article summaries
>>>>>>> interesting. The first really speaks to the new field of
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> neuroeducation
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> with regard to cellular learning... the nice thing about the
>>>>>>> summary
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> is
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> it gives you an overview of learning at the cellular basis... very
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> clear
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and easy to understand. Plus an introduction to astrocytes... :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The second piece actually discusses re-learning, which has been a
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> topic
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> lately.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What I personally find so interesting is the role of experience in
>>>>>>> learning and relearning... I found myself thinking back to Shirley
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Brice
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Heath's work... it would be fun to go back to her work and look at
>>>>>>> her
>>>>>>> study through a neuroeducation lens.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. Star-shaped Cells In Brain Help With Learning
>>>>>>> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090911132907.htm
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Every movement and every thought requires the passing of specific
>>>>>>> information between networks of nerve cells. To improve a skill or
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> learn something new entails more efficient or a greater number of
>>>>>>> cell
>>>>>>> contacts. Scientists can now show that certain cells in the brain
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> astrocytes -- actively influence this information exchange.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2. Forgotten But Not Gone: How The Brain Re-learns
>>>>>>> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/11/081117110834.htm
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks to our ability to learn and to remember, we can perform
>>>>>>> tasks
>>>>>>> that other living things can not even dream of. However, we are
>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>> just beginning to get the gist of what really goes on in the brain
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> when
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> it learns or forgets something. What we do know is that changes in
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> contacts between nerve cells play an important role. But can these
>>>>>>> structural changes account for that well-known phenomenon that it
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> much easier to re-learn something that was forgotten than to learn
>>>>>>> something completely new?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ~em
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Emily Duvall, PhD
>>>>>>> Assistant Professor Curriculum & Instruction
>>>>>>> University of Idaho, Coeur d'Alene
>>>>>>> 1000 W. Hubbard Suite 242 | Coeur d'Alene, ID 83814
>>>>>>> T 208 292 2512 | F 208 667 5275 emily@uidaho.edu |
>>>>>>> www.cda.uidaho.edu
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He only earns his freedom and his life, who takes them every day
>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>> storm.
>>>>>>> -- Johann Wolfgang Goethe
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>> <howard-
>>>> jones
>>>> .pdf
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  <
>>>> neuroeducation
>>>> .pdf
>>>>
>>>>> <sharp_et_al_2.pdf>_______________________________________________
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