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RE: [xmca] "The psyche of proletarian children" and language and thought

Thank you, very much David.

It's very instructive.

I will see the quotations at the Works.
Seems to be interesting that Vygotsky was
open to Rühle, even he was agaist Leninism,
and saw Soviet Union as a form of State
Capitalism... (I don't know if that information
is reliable)... But, the point is just about
relationships between social class position
and social formation of mind. I agree with
the opposition to Zalking thinking in terms of
"class character"... I wonder that in "Socialist 
alteration of man" the relation of personality
formation and class struggle seems to be more
in dialectical terms... The entire society is
not homogeneous, then the social formation
of personality is not homogeneous too... But
I really don´t know yet if Rühle thank like 
Zalkind. Do you think so?

Thank you very much David... My friend tell
me that she already find a Spanish version from
the Rühle's book reviewed by Vygotsky... and
them this seems to be very useful. There was 
yet some pedological works about soviet children
valuation about class struggle, expropriation, 
relations between money and work, etc. There
is a list of questions for interview with children
from Mikhail Basov, that contains this kind of
questions, together others about "physical
causality", etc. This is reported by Valsiner,
but I don´t know if this is the same. Can we
call soviet children exactly "proletarian children"?
In a social context in that people believe that
there are no more "classes"? But we will see
that pedologists studies too, if we could...

Oh. Thank you very much... You help me too think
broader than before...

Best wishes.

> Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 22:03:53 -0700
> From: vaughndogblack@yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: [xmca] "The psyche of proletarian children" and language and	thought
> To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> Dear Achilles:
> As you probably know, there are a few references to Otto Ruele in Volume Two of the Collected Works on defectology, and some of these are to "The psyche of proletarian children". 
> Overall, LSV takes a positive view of the work, which is a little surprising because of his hostility to the ideas of Zalkind on "proletarian character". 
> Ruele seems to have been close to Adler, and a critic of Freud (or so says the notes on Ruele in Volume Two. LSV has generally nice things to say about Adler too.
> David Kellogg
> Seoul National University of Education
> PS: Mike, I wasn't trying to put either you or Meltzoff on the spot; I was really just writing fluff along the lines of something-I-read-on-the-way-to-work-this-morning-that-I-thought-you-might-find-interesting. 
> I guess the most interesting thing about it for me has to do with Greg's rather Whorfian letter which argues that thinking and speech have to be a lot closer than the longitude and latitude metaphor suggest, and that in particular phasal and semantic aspects of speech are really one and the same thing, linked but not distinct. When two things are linked but not distinct, it is hard to see how they can develop each other. 
> Of course, SOMETHING happens in the brain when we read, and it may happen in different parts of the brain when we read different scripts (just as we may recover memories from different parts of the brain). But sometimes structural differences really can be "uncoupled" from ffunctional differences, and I think this is one of them.
> David Kellogg
> Seoul National University of Education
> --- On Sun, 8/30/09, Achilles Delari Junior <achilles_delari@hotmail.com> wrote:
> From: Achilles Delari Junior <achilles_delari@hotmail.com>
> Subject: [xmca] "The psyche of proletarian children"...
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Date: Sunday, August 30, 2009, 7:01 PM
> Hi XMCA.
> How are you?
> I wish fine.
> Please, I'm asking you for a help, one more time.
> There is a friend of mine, working with expropriated 
> children, fighting against "child work expropriation" in the 
> North-east from my country. And she is looking for a particular
> text from Vygotsky, and I suppose that there is no publication
> of it, even in Russian. This is the title, seems to be only
> the manuscript
> Review of The Psyche of proletarian Children by Otto Rulle
> (Moscow-Leningrad, 1926). Private archives of L. S. Vygotsky.
> Manucript, 3. pp.
> Рец.
> на кн.: Отто Рюле. Психика пролетарского ребенка. М.; Л.: ГИЗ, 1926 // Семейный
> арх. Л.С. Выготского. 1926. 3 с. Рукопись.
> But this indication that there is only the manuscript is from 1996'
> Lifanova's paper. Then, who knows if there is any publication after...
> Do you have any notice about this work, or some general suggestion
> of reading something about this subject (the psyche of children
> in terms of social classes, and class struggle)?
> Thank you very much about your attention and help.
> Best wishes.
> Achilles.
> >From Brazil.
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