Re: [xmca] Where is thinking - con't from Tony

[Mike Cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>]

Where is the dichotomy, Vera? Its and/both, heterochronously and
heterogeneously, relationally and non-linearly.
So we murder to dissect, routinely.
(Which constantly gives us more than enough to chat about!)mike

On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 12:11 PM, Vera Steiner <vygotsky@unm.edu> wrote:

> Hi,
> I keep on thinking that we,too, fall into a dichotomy when we reject the
> inside/outside dynamic process. These are at time simultaneous actions:
> appropriation, transformation, externalization  and their impact on the
> speech
> community, while they are also part of the process of brain/neuronal
> changes.
> When I remember one of the messages from the xmca community, I engage in an
> act that requires neuronal activity and  while I am reformulating,
> communicating with the source of my thinking activity, this community, I
> co-participate in the sustained thinking activities of others. By viewing
> these activities as either/or we are shaped by our opponents' Cartesian
> beliefs and terminology.  I cannot write these words without the words of
> others, but I am also moving my fingers--there is no space for other fingers
> on the keyboard. We are profoundly, irrevocably  interdependent. We need a
> new set of terms to express the consequences of that interdependence when it
> comes to psychological processes which have not a single but distributed
> locations,
> Vera
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Cole" <lchcmike@gmail.com>
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 10:23 AM
> Subject: [xmca] Where is thinking - con't from Tony
>
>
>  To shorten the string of trailing messages and focus on just one of the
>> interesting responses:
>>
>> From: Tony Whitson <twhitson@udel.edu>
>> Date: Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 5:44 PM
>> Subject: Re: [xmca] Where is thinking?
>> To: mcole@weber.ucsd.edu, "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <
>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
>>
>>
>> For what it's worth:
>>
>> Thought is what it is only by virtue of its addressing a future thought
>> which is in its value as thought identical with it, though more developed.
>> In this way, the existence of thought now depends on what is to be
>> hereafter; so that it has only a potential existence, dependent on the
>> future thought of the community.
>>
>> No present actual thought (which is [in itself] a mere feeling) has any
>> meaning, any intellectual value; for this lies not in what is actually
>> thought, but in what this thought may be connected with in representation
>> by
>> subsequent thoughts, so that the meaning of a thought is altogether
>> something virtual.
>>
>> Accordingly, just as we say that a body is in motion, and not that motion
>> is
>> in a body, we ought to say that we are in thought, and not that thoughts
>> are
>> in us.
>>
>> -- Charles Peirce, Writings 2: 241,227,227
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Reading this puts me strongly in mind of the epigram of the chapter 7 of
>> Thinking and Speech, "I forgot the word I wanted to say, and thought,
>> unembodied, returned to the hall of shadows."
>>
>> Locally a couple of us have been re-re-re-visiting this idea and what
>> seems
>> to us an incompleteness that is picked up by Pierce and which relates to
>> the
>> relationship between
>> imagining and creating as well as sense and meaning. For LSV the
>> externalized thought-in-word completes the thought, providing the "most
>> stable zone of sense." But we were focused
>> on the hearer of the utterance and how it was then interpreted and
>> subsequently given further life or not as very important..... the later
>> history of what Vygotsky called the embodied thought.
>>
>> I fear the invitations to confusion in all the inside/outside invocations
>> in
>> what we are quoting and composing.
>>
>> mike
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>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>
>>
>
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