Re: [xmca] Vygotskyan approach to mental health - socio-genetic roots of mental diseases and psychotherapeutic semiotic mediation.

From: Katarina Rodina <katarina.rodina who-is-at>
Date: Sun Jul 06 2008 - 11:18:56 PDT

Dear Achilles,

I recently mentioned Vygotsky's theoretical essay "The Problem of
Development and Dissolution of Higher Mental Function". I hope this might
ease the understanding of some of the basic ideas of Vygotsky's approach
to mental health...

Are you familiar with the Jewish-American Aron Antonovsky's concept of
sense of coherence and salutogenesis? This concept has some similarity
with Vygotsky: e.g. health- and resource oriented psychotherapeutical
approach, salutogenesis vs. pathogenesis and symptomatological oriented
approach to mental health.

Best regards from Katarina

On Sun, July 6, 2008 04:07, Achilles Delari Junior wrote:
> (12) From Achilles
> Vygotskyan approach to mental health - socio-genetic roots of mental
> diseases and psychotherapeutic semiotic mediation.
> €œHe (Vygotsky) did not believe in meaningless defect or retrogression:
> since the construction of the human mind follows a certain pattern, its
> destruction also cannot be arbitrary and therefore reveals specific
> rupture lines characteristic of the formation of the human psyche. That is
> why observations of the acquisition of language in the deaf-mute, concept
> formation in schizophrenics, and the rehabilitation of aphasics were for
> Vygotsky no less a part of developmental psychology than the sensory-motor
> behavior of the two-year old.€ (Alex Kozuin, Vygotsky€™s psychology €“
> a biography of ideas, 1990 €“ p. 195)
> I want to study Vygotsky´s theoretical contributions to Mental Health:
> (1) mental diseases theoretical and methodological comprehension; and (2)
> therapeutics dialogical practices, in a cultural-historical approach. And
> I asked here on the existence of English translation from
> €œŸ€облема €азви‚и и €апада в‹ˆи…
> пи…и‡еки… „ƒнк†ий€, because I wish to translate it
> to Portuguese but not if it exists in English. Mike Cole suggests reading
> Luria, and Akhutina and Rodina. Very important suggestions, I will study
> Akhutina and Rodina, and search another references by Luria than the ones
> I have here (more in €œclassical science€ style, than in the
> €œromantic science€ books, maybe the ones what I need, I don€™t know).
> But, what more can you suggest to me about the €œvygotskyan approach to
> mental health - socio-genetic roots of mental diseases and
> psychotherapeutic semiotic mediation€?
> Thank you very much.
> Achilles,
> Umuarama, July 5, 2008.
> (11) From Mike
> Luria-- Also check out Akhutina and Rodina article at LCHC. And ask on
> XMCA to see what comes up/mike
> (10) From Achilles
> I remember that there was a vygotskyan metaphorthat 'a building does not
> tumbling down, by anotherlaws that ones it was constructed' (not exactly
> this words,I quote by core)- maybe quoted by Kozulin, I don€™t
> exactlyremember high now. Seems to me a important methodological
> principle, but I haven't seen much empirical work raised in it, in mental
> health historical-cultural research, if you could help me with this to, I
> will be very greatfull too.Thank you again, very much.Achilles,Umuarama,
> 04 July, 2008.
> (9) From Mike
> Yes, i firmly believe that.very important.mike
> (8) From Achilles
> Thanks...I had writed about my interest in othermail before read this.Do
> you think that 'raspada (desintegration) problem'can help us understand
> some questions to mentalhealth in historical-cultural
> approach?Achilles,Umuarama, July 4, 2008
> (7) From Bella
> Why italian? I sent you the Russian text- here it is once more.Mike, we
> just recently discussed problems of translation. If you want it tobe
> published in English, it would be reasonable to use the original
> Russiantext.Sincerely yours Bella Kotik-Friedgut
> (6) From Mike
> Whoa!! here is the article for Poalo in Italian!! I have sent to Pentti
> fortranslation in JREEP/mikePS-- Thanks Boris›ег‡е най‚и на
> и‚алŒнком:Il problema dello sviluppo e della disintegrazione
> delle funzioni psichichesuperiori // La psicologia sovietica 1917-1936.
> Roma: Edit. Riuniti, 1976.P. 330-347.С ƒважением,
> (5) From Mike
> No need to apologize for your English at all, Achilles!You provide a great
> reference in Kozulin's book that should be accessible to readers of XMCA,
> and in the article from Vygotsky reader. Abrigado!:-)mike
> (4) From Achilles
> Joao, Eugene and Mike,
> The original text, in Russian we have in Russian Wikipedia,
> but the link seems to be broken. But I have downloded it
> before. (atached here)
> I wonder that the 'raspada' (disintegration/decay) problem
> is related not only to the defectology matters, but to the
> pathopsychology's too (like schizophrenia and Pick's disease
> - Kozulin presents this question in 'Vygotsky - a biography
> of ideas' (cap. 6 €“ Mind in Trouble - section Psychopathology
> and Regression); And there is a Vygotsky´s article in the Vygotsky
> Reader about 'Though in Schizophrenia' (I translate to Portuguese);
> the text about Pick's disease by Vygotsky, Samukhin and Bierenbaum 'K
> voprosu o dementsii pri bolezni Pika - klinitcheskoe i eksperimen-
> tal'no issledovanie' we find only in Russian too, Joao obtains it
> here in the list and pass to me), but I don€™t know yet. I can try
> translate the Russian 'Problema razvitia i raspada vyschikh
> psikhitcheskikh funktsii', aided by dictionaries and another
> on-line translation tools, trying to learn Russian psychological
> vocabulary, but if Eugene did it, its better.
> Thanks. Excuse me about my wrong English writing, ok? But I
> think that I can understand you very well, even so.
> Achilles
> Umuarama, July 4, 2008
> (3) From Mike
> Hi Joao & Eugene--
> I do not know of this article in English, although probably we can get it
> translated if it is not. Meantime, I can recommend two sources
> that should help:
> Vygotsky, L. (1993). The collected works of L.S.Vygotsky. Vol.2: The
> fundamentals of defectology (abnormal psychology and learning
> disabilities) (R.W.Rieber & A.S. Carton, Eds.). NY: Plenum Press.
> and
> Katarina Rodina's article which can be found at lchc as follows:
> AR Luria's work should be relevant in several places.
> Perhaps our Russian bibliophiles can come up with an origanal for
> translation?
> mike
> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 3:58 AM,
> (2) From Joao
> Dear friends... somebody has this text in english:
> 'Problema razvitia i raspada vyschikh psikhitcheskikh funktsii'
> Thanks
> Joao Martins
> (1) Achilles para João
> Eu também teria outro favor para te pedir. ‰ de perguntarna tua lista
> XMCA (é isso?), sobre haver ou não o seguinte textoem inglês. Em russo
> eu já tenho e quero traduzir (vai ser maisrápido que o do Pick), mas se
> já existir em outro lugar, nãohá necessidade. ‰ o seguinte:'Problema
> razvitia i raspada vyschikh psikhitcheskikh funktsii''Problema do
> desenvolvimento e desintegração das funções
> psíquicassuperiores.'Será que já se encontra esse texto em inglês ou
> espanhol?
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Katarina A. Rodina,
PhD-Research Fellow/Logoped,MNLL
Department of Special Needs Education
University of Oslo
P.O.Box 1140 Blindern,NO-0318 Oslo, Norway
Phone: +47 22 85 81 38/Fax:  +47 22 85 80 21
Head of Russo-Norwegian Academic Relations,
The Vygotsky Institute of Psychology, Moscow
The Herzen State University in St.Petersburg
xmca mailing list
Received on Sun Jul 6 11:23 PDT 2008

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