Re: [xmca] Inside|Outside; emotion|cognition

From: Mike Cole <lchcmike who-is-at>
Date: Thu Apr 03 2008 - 10:19:22 PDT

I'll follow up on the civil war issue separately, David. But want to pursue
the issue of intonation. Reason: I think we need some
observable/classifiable/ maybe even quantifiable ways to study the
emotion/action/cognition relationshipS.

Given your comments on variability, what are the consequences for method?

Concrete case. We are experimenting with a new way to teach kids basic
physics concepts that involves them using stop action animation, resulting
in a video representation of the concept. And, along the way, a video and
audio representation of the processes of interaction that assemble the
product. There are now large memory digital audio recorders with big
memories and handy usb ports so we can read the output straight into
existing software analysis programs. How do we start to think about the
kinds of data streams that need to be coordinated in order to make
warrantable claims about emotion|cognition??

One of many questions on my mind

On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 8:46 PM, David Kellogg <>

> Welcome back, Mike!
> I think part of the confusion comes from a difference in PURPOSE. You want
> to see the Russian Civil War as an analogy for the developmental crisis. (I
> can actually think of better analogies: Caravaggio, Rembrandt, the Black
> Panther Party, etc.) I want to see the Russian Civil War as the concrete
> context in which LSV experienced Marxism, as a living and deadly reality
> with direct implications for the immediate future rather than simply a guide
> to history.
> The physical presence of foreign troops on Soviet soil was certainly real
> enough. Interestingly, it was the WESTERN allies who saw the allied
> expeditionary forces as outside interventions. Churchill said that
> Bolshevism had to be strangled in its cradle. Baron Wrangel organized his
> legionnaires according to the country they came from and the language they
> spoke. In Seattle there was a general strike which successfully blocked
> Woodrow Wilson's dispatch of arms for Vladivostok.
> If tomorrow morning fourteen countries landed
> Arabic-speaking expeditionary forces in and around California in support of
> embattled Muslims, I doubt very much if the LA Times would talk about
> outside help arriving for a locally led movement. Yet that is how the
> Russian government, under the influence of Marxism, chose to see the matter
> and portray it in the papers, papers which LSV must have read. (I still have
> this idiotic idea that if I read everything that LSV ever read I will be
> able to think everything that he thought.)
> I don't think I ever said that Wolff-Michael overgeneralized his results
> from Praat. But it seems to me that the reality of language is VARIATION and
> not SYSTEMATIZATION, even as a system of words and rules it is over-free
> rather than overdetermined. This is nowhere so true as in intonation.
> Even fairly coarse generalizations such as "yes-no questions tend to come
> up" and "wh-questions tend to come down unless they are requests for
> confirmation" fall apart very easily (think of Irish intonation). I don't
> think it's the case that we can simply "read off" an emotion from an
> intonation; intonation has a quite mutable relationship to both temporal and
> spatial context. Intonation is not like grammar or vocabulary; it's more
> like proxemics and eye-contact. Intonation was what Wittgenstein must have
> had in mind when he said that to mean something was to go up to somebody and
> tap them on the shoulder (Philosophy of Grammar).
> David Kellogg
> Seoul National University of Education
> ------------------------------
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