7 feb 2008 kl. 21.23 skrev Lois Holzman:
> Michael,
> Thanks so much for the analogy and for the reference!
> Can you send me your article electronically?
I'll be happy to get it too.
MOnica
> I don't think I have time to get it and read it before I send my
> manuscript off to the publisher.
> Have you read Lisa Goldstein's article The Relational Zone... AERJ,
> 1999?
> Lois
>
>
> Lois Holzman, Director
> East Side Institute for Group and Short Term Psychotherapy
> 920 Broadway, 14th floor
> New York NY 10010
> tel. 212.941.8906 ext. 324
> fax 212.941.0511
> lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org
> www.eastsideinstitute.org
> www.performingtheworld.org
> www.loisholzman.net
>
>
>
>
>
> On Feb 7, 2008, at 3:04 PM, Michael G. Levykh wrote:
>
>> Dear Lois,
>>
>> I am excited to hear that you are writing about how the ZPD has been
>> interpreted in various writings. I often read that in many cases and
>> writings ZPD has not been used as it was intended by Vygotsky. It
>> puzzles
>> me. Let us assume for the time being that there is no other
>> purpose that
>> ZPD was created but to facilitate the child's further
>> development. Imagine
>> if a wheel inventor (if there was such a person and if he lived
>> nowadays)
>> who invented the wheels only for the usage of the buggy pulled by
>> the horse,
>> would complain about the modern usage of the wheels (his own
>> invention which
>> had a specifically different intended function to perform). It
>> would seem
>> trivial, to say the least, to limit our technological progress by
>> warring
>> about "authenticity" of the originally intended usage of the
>> wheels. Since
>> Vygotsky only intended but never had a chance to give any
>> specifics and
>> details on the subject of ZPD, one cannot be sure as to his
>> dissatisfaction
>> in regards to the extended usage and interpretation of his ZPD,
>> had he ever
>> had such a chance.
>>
>> As far as the inclusion of emotions in ZPD is concerned, in my
>> recently
>> published article - Levykh, M.G. (2008). The affective
>> establishment and
>> maintenance of Vygotsky's zone of proximal development.
>> Educational Theory,
>> vol. 58(1), pp. 83-101. - I begin to address this very important
>> issue of
>> emotions. I attempt to show that there is no need to expand ZPD to
>> include
>> emotions, as its more "conservative" dimensions (cognitive, social,
>> cultural, and historical) already encompass affective features. In
>> this
>> article I also emphasize that an emotionally positive
>> collaboration between
>> teachers and students in a caring and nurturing environment must
>> be created
>> from the outset; and culturally developed emotions must mediate
>> successful
>> establishment and maintenance of the ZPD in order to be effective.
>>
>> I think the interest in this conversation is still there.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Michael Levykh.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-
>> bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On
>> Behalf Of Lois Holzman
>> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 10:33 AM
>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>> Subject: Re: [xmca] neoformation
>>
>> This is a topic I'm currently writing about-the various ways the zpd
>> has been interpreted. As Glick points out in The Essential
>> Vygotsky, a
>> different zpd appears in different translations of different writings
>> of Vygotsky. I am especially interested in how most contemporary work
>> is cognitively overdetermined, that is, continues the cognition-
>> emotion split of mainstream psychology in talking about/applying the
>> zpd conceptually. I think confining the zpd to goal directed,
>> educational settings is also an outgrowth of this unintended
>> cognitive
>> bias. I detect a slight movement toward "including the affective" in
>> some recent work. And then, of course, Vygotsky did mention the
>> zpd of
>> play... My own work follows that line of thinking to performance as a
>> unity of cognition and affect. A big stretch from Vygotsky's text,
>> but
>> as Anna Stetsenko wrote in that same collection, "The best way to
>> penetrate Vygotsky's ideas is to turn them into an instrument of
>> one's
>> own social practice." Is there any interest in pursuing this
>> conversation?
>> Lois
>>
>>
>>
>> Lois Holzman, Director
>> East Side Institute for Group and Short Term Psychotherapy
>> 920 Broadway, 14th floor
>> New York NY 10010
>> tel. 212.941.8906 ext. 324
>> fax 212.941.0511
>> lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org
>> www.eastsideinstitute.org
>> www.performingtheworld.org
>> www.loisholzman.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 7, 2008, at 12:52 PM, Michael Glassman wrote:
>>
>>> A great post because it makes me think of a thousand questions. Are
>>> zpds always intended? What if I'm having a conversation with a
>>> friend
>>> and all of a sudden she mentions something that makes me think,
>>> hmmm, I
>>> haven't heard that before, and it leads to a really salient
>>> situation.
>>> I was in a research meeting and a student mentioned the different
>>> ways
>>> children were discussed in policy in the first part of the 20th
>>> century
>>> and the latter part of the 20th century. It sparked a salient
>>> learning
>>> moment for me. Leading to a second question - are zpds
>>> circumscribed?
>>> Meaning I started with that one learning moment, but then it starts
>>> building on itself. Can I still say my learning is part of the
>>> original
>>> zpd? Are zpds unidirectional, or can it be almost like a game of
>>> ping
>>> pong, where one person says something that sparks learning in one
>>> person, which leads to her saying something leading to learning in
>>> return.
>>>
>>> I guess this all points to Phillips point about whether there needs
>>> to a
>>> redefinition of the zpd, or to Mike's point that maybe it needs
>>> to be
>>> stretched out further in to Vygotsky's thought and those who came
>>> after.
>>> But then does that make it difficult and two far outside of its
>>> usefulness according to the rules of current scientific
>>> discourse? To
>>> bring Bourdieu back in if only for a moment, does it take us too far
>>> outside the habitus of many of those studying development and even
>>> education? Is it part of a field that has no implications, and
>>> pursuing
>>> these ideas little social (and eventually material) capital?
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-
>>> bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
>>> On Behalf Of Worthen, Helena Harlow
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 9:56 AM
>>> To: mcole@weber.ucsd.edu; eXtended Mind, Culture,Activity
>>> Subject: RE: [xmca] neoformation
>>>
>>> Hello --
>>>
>>> Sometimes I like to think about the zpd in terms of what is not a
>>> zpd
>>> situation -- that is, something that involves very close interaction
>>> between people in extended conversation that is highly purposeful
>>> but is
>>> NOT intended to accomplish teaching or learning. For example:
>>> deposing a
>>> witness, confessing to a priest, bargaining a contract. If you
>>> took a
>>> photo of each of these you might think that there was a zpd there
>>> somewhere, but I don't think there is.
>>>
>>> Helena Worthen
>>>
>>> ________________________________________
>>> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On
>>> Behalf Of Mike Cole [lchcmike@gmail.com]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 10:36 PM
>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>>> Subject: Re: [xmca] neoformation
>>>
>>> Michael. I think your note reinforces what Peter wrote in an odd
>>> way.
>>> the zoped cannot be isolated easily, not measured (perhaps at
>>> all, and
>>> certainly not by standardized techniques, and its contextual aspects
>>> are
>>> enormous. BUT, if you reduce it to scaffolding, "amount of help
>>> needed",
>>> ignore what is written beyond Thought and Language and the
>>> chapter in mind in society -- in short, if you assimilate it, as I
>>> first
>>> did, to mediated stimulus response learning theory circa 1962, THEN
>>> it can be assimilated by Americans.
>>>
>>> However, if you keep on reading......
>>> mike
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 4, 2008 at 5:16 AM, Michael Glassman
>>> <MGlassman@ehe.osu.edu
>>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> You know it also might be the other way around, that people in the
>>> U.S.
>>>> are not really that taken with Vygotsky but with the zpd because it
>>> fits
>>>> relatively well in to modern mainstream discourse in the United
>>> States in
>>>> studying children (it can be isolated, it can be measured, it
>>>> measures
>>> a
>>>> particular aspect of the child - cognitive development, its
>>>> contextual
>>>> aspects are limited), and they are happy to associate Vygotsky with
>>> the ZPD.
>>>>
>>>> Michael
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>>
>>>> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu on behalf of Peter Smagorinsky
>>>> Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:06 AM
>>>> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity'
>>>> Subject: RE: [xmca] neoformation
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I wonder if the idea that "Americans" are heavily focused on the
>>>> zpd
>>> comes
>>>> from the possibility that Mind in Society presented it early as a
>>>> Vygotskian
>>>> construct in translation, and it was converted to a new metaphor
>>>> ("scaffolding") that people can grasp relatively easily (if not
>>>> particularly
>>>> deeply in many cases). But I think it's mostly something that's
>>> focused on
>>>> by people who haven't read much LSV, which would be most people in
>>>> the
>>> US
>>>> who talk about LSV. The zpd is also something that an ed psych
>>> textbook
>>>> can
>>>> include that "explains" Vygotsky while covering many
>>>> perspectives on
>>> human
>>>> development or other ed psych topics.
>>>>
>>>> But I think that people who read a bit beyond a chapter excerpt
>>>> from
>>> Mind
>>>> in
>>>> Society look at more than the ZPD. In my view, the problem is
>>>> that in
>>> the
>>>> US, there's a paucity of people who've read beyond the introductory
>>>> readings, and thus the appearance of a national focus on what's
>>>> most
>>>> readily
>>>> available. Those who've read more tend to put the zpd into the
>>> perspective
>>>> of Vygotsky's larger project, I think.
>>>>
>>>> Peter Smagorinsky
>>>> The University of Georgia
>>>> 125 Aderhold Hall
>>>> Athens, GA 30602
>>>> smago@uga.edu/phone:706-542-4507
>>>> http://www.coe.uga.edu/lle/faculty/smagorinsky/index.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-
>>>> bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
>>> On
>>>> Behalf Of Dot Robbins
>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 5:05 PM
>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>>>> Subject: [xmca] neoformation
>>>>
>>>> Thank many of you for your thoughts on neoformations, ZPD, social
>>>> situation
>>>> of development, leading activity....it is interesting to find
>>>> articles
>>>> that
>>>> try to return to the unity of the genetic, structural, and
>>>> functional
>>>> analysis of consciousness and development. And, when in Moscow
>>>> in the
>>>> past,
>>>> I was asked numerous times why there is such a focus on the ZPD in
>>>> the
>>>> West,
>>>> as opposed to critical/non-critical times of development
>>> neoformations,
>>>> etc.
>>>> The only answer I had (and correct me if this is wrong) is that in
>>>> the
>>>> USA,
>>>> to my understanding, there are certainly many clinical
>>>> psychologists
>>> who
>>>> use
>>>> Luria's ideas, but fewer psychologists who use Vygotsky's ideas
>>> (assuming
>>>> that the majority of Vygotskians [certainly not all] in the USA are
>>>> in
>>>> some
>>>> form of education). So, I continually look for articles that try to
>>>> refocus
>>>> on basic issues through the lens that includes non-linear thinking,
>>>> non-classical or organic psychology, historical method,
>>>> "systemics,"
>>>> dialectics, etc., a
>>>> return to trying to understand what the "experimental-genetic
>>>> method"
>>> is,
>>>> and to develop my own Vygotskian heuristic that can be used for
>>> personal
>>>> "transformation," which will also inspire/motivate others. It is a
>>> drive
>>>> for
>>>> constant change that leads to development in all ages, and this is
>>> where
>>>> Vygotsky helps me. It is not so much striving to understand static
>>>> definitions, but how to use a method for real change. How do we
>>> actually
>>>> understand the process of development as "developing" and the
>>> potentiality
>>>> involved? And, all of this leads to thoughts on causality,
>>> determinism, as
>>>> well as internalization, etc.
>>>> I believe the ideas of neoformation, social situation of
>>>> development,
>>>> leading activity, ZPD, critical periods (that need to be extended
>>> beyond
>>>> 17years of age, in Moscow there have been discussions on the
>>>> critical
>>> ages
>>>> of 22 and 24) have not been viewed in a unified manner, which must
>>> also
>>>> include word meaning, concept formation, operational-technical and
>>>> emotional-motivational aspects of activity, etc. Returning to
>>>> neoformations,
>>>> I would like to understand that concept more, especially in
>>>> relation
>>> to
>>>> its
>>>> transitional role, and the fact that neoformations can be
>>>> brought to
>>> life
>>>> or
>>>> experimentally created. It also returns to the ideas of
>>>> "engagement"
>>> and
>>>> "separation" where non-linear paths cross and form connections,
>>>> such
>>> as
>>>> spontaneous/scientific concepts (and to be honest, I feel that our
>>>> interpretations are sometimes limiting and rigid.for example,
>>> scientific
>>>> concepts which are often viewed from the abstract to the
>>>> concrete, or
>>>> spontaneous concepts from the concrete to
>>>> the abstract, something I find difficult to truly understand in
>>>> some
>>>> Western texts).
>>>> Nik Veresov has written an article that views neoformations (and
>>>> the
>>>> social situation of development) that encourages me regarding a
>>>> newer
>>>> vision
>>>> of integral unity, non-linear thinking, etc. "Leading Activity in
>>>> Development Psychology." Journal of Russian and East European
>>> Psychology,
>>>> 2006, 44/5, pp. 7-25. He returns to a position of Vygotskian ideas
>>> within
>>>> a
>>>> systemic, organic (living, dialectical) approach. He also enters
>>>> the
>>> world
>>>> of "between" and Vygotsky's interaction of the ideal and real
>>> forms...I
>>>> hope
>>>> we will see more articles on the concept of neoformations.
>>>> Thanks to
>>>> David,
>>>> Elina, Mike, others for stimulating new thoughts on a subject
>>>> rarely
>>>> discussed.
>>>> Warm regards,
>>>> Dot
>>>> P.S. Nik also mentions K. Polivanova, and the word Sasha spoke of
>>> earlier
>>>> subjectivization. "In her splendid book she cogently demonstrates
>>>> that
>>> the
>>>> content of crises is the transformation of an age-related new
>>> formation
>>>> into
>>>> a subjective capability-subjectivization." (p. 22)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dorothy (Dot) Robbins
>>>> Professor of German
>>>> Russian Orphanage Vyschgorod
>>>> www.vygotsky-robbins.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------
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Received on Thu Feb 7 12:31 PST 2008
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