OK Tony,
I won't belabor the point. Just finished watching a live broadcast of Chavez with the American parents of hostages held by the FARC in Colombia. Chavez and a Colombian senator are on the verge of brokering a truce between the FARC and the Colombian government, such as was realized in Venezuela more than 20 years ago.
I believe Chavez is one of the most important political figures to emerge in Latin American politics since Fidel Castro -- who has managed to keep the torch of socialism alive despite unthinkable pressures, precisely because his government represents real, not abstract, democracy. All of the babble about "liberties" means little to people who don't have any work, no guaranteed eduaction for their kids, no health care, etc., and as a consequence can't really contribute to the construction of what Engestrom called "humanized" society. . And that assuming that there's no need to defend the country against fat, snarling, jowled, and drooling capitalist pigs (Cheney comes to mind) who would burn down the Amazon rain forest to see their assets fatten and who in this particular case are drooling at Venezuela's oil assets. Chavez isn't taking away anyone's liberty unless they construe liberty to mean that they can interfere with the project of establishing a just society to
satisfy their personal interests or allow the foreign intervention in their country.
But thanks for the nice reply, I expected to get lashed.
Paul
Tony Whitson <twhitson@UDel.Edu> wrote:
Paul,
What I said is "a case can be made ...". It's not a case that I am making.
In fact, on XMCA I have been challenged in the past for not being critical
of Chavez.
My point was that the President of Iran does not have the power to decide
state policies and positions that it appears that Chavez does in his
country -- whether or not he was elected to that position. I was making a
comparison. I don't think there is a comparable basis for making such a
case re: Ahmadinejad. You talk about your freedom while in Venezuela, but
it seems to me that conflates the question of dictatorial power with the
question of suppression of liberties. Those phenomena are often not
unrelated, but they are conceptually distinct. My point was that the
rhetoric that obscures our awareness of how little power Ahmadinejad
actually has in his country, can actually serve his interest in expanding
that power. When I referred uncritically to Chavez in the past on XMCA, I
was called to task for that by someone who's much more knowledgeable than
I am on that situation. I defer to those who know more than I on a given
subject. I'm not making any case or statement on Chavez, beyond noting
that the case for "dictator" would be a matter of the power that the
leader in question is able to wield, and that by all accounts Ahmadinejad
does not have power in Iran comparable to that of Chavez in Venezuela.
On Tue, 25 Sep 2007, Paul Dillon wrote:
"
> Tony,
>
> Your statement about the democratically elected president of Venezuela really shocked mebecause I really didn't expect you, or anyone else on xmca for that mattter, to parrot propaganda.
>
> I have been in Venezuela and have no idea how any case at all could be made for calling Chavez a dictator in the sense of the word you have provided. If you choose the blatantly misrepresented example of refusing to renew a TV station's license you should remember that the station in question actively sponsored, live and on-the-air, a military coup against a government that had been democratically elected in elections closely watched by international observers, including Jimmy Carter. In the US (whose current president was not democratically elected and also might be called a demagogue, petty tyrant, liar and murderer ) such an action would result in the same consequences for the station -- immediately, not as in the Venezuelan case, when the license had expired -- and perhaps even the death penalty for those involved since such acts constitute treason in the highest of degrees. The consequences of the attempts against the state-owned oil facilities in Maracaibo fall
> into the same category.
>
> The US-backed coup against Chavez failed and he was returned to power when a million Venezuelans flooded the streets of Caracas and shut the city down. There is a good documentary about this made by Irish film-makers who happened to be there on another project when the coup took place.
>
> Opposition newspapers are still published in Venezuela and Globovision, a major TV network based in Venezuela, is privately owned and independent. The program content of the state-owned TV station, Telesur, is a lot like PBS. Runs lots of UNICEF spots concerning AIDS prevention, domestic violence, etc.. It's positive content focuses on the cultures and peoples of South and Central America and the Carribean; about the people, customs, and identity that have absolutely no commercial or political content other than the revalorization of these frameworks for identity in opposition to the crap, sex-and-violence, globalized, commercial cultures that fill American TV programming.
>
> When one thinks about varieties of totalitarian controls in the XXI century, Gramsci's concept of "hegemony" might prove useful for explaining the US public's support for an internationally condemned and absolutely illegal war; the revocation of civil rights in the Patriot Act; torture and invasion of privacy; etc. reveal that there is a "velvet dictatorship" in advanced capitalist societies which Gramsci's concept fits quite well. There is nothing even close to that in Venezuela, let alone the variety you define in "dictatorship."
>
> I was in Venezuela and wandered freely through Caracas, Barinas, and other cities over a period of three weeks. I talked (speak fluent spanish with native competence although an obvious accent) with hundreds of Venezuelans completely outside the framework of any government surveillance. In fact as far as I could discover, there was absolutely no surveillance and none of the people I spoke with seemed intimidated about expressing their opinions to my questions.
>
> Of course some of the people with whom I spoke, especially those from the privileged classes who have been benefitting from Venezuela's oil income for decades through a variety of macro-economic transfer mechanisms, might not like Chavez' policy to steer Venezuela toward a socialist economy within a unified South and Central American framework. Neverthess the vast majority of Venezuelan's support him and his policies. So do most leaders of South American countries. He is widely respected and only one country, sadly the one where I live, has any serious issues with Chavez, but then Peru is also the only country in South America that is establishing free-trade agreements with the US. He has established bi-lateral and multi-lateral economic and political relationships with virtyally evey other country on the continent and is at the point of bringing about the first dialogues between the Colombian goveernment and the FARC which has been waging war with it for many
> years.
>
> So I would really like to know what dictatorial powers you are referring to in your statement. I would really like to read your supposed case for labelling President Chavez a dictator. And I would really hope that in the future you avoid making outrageous and incorrect statements when you obviously don't know much about the topic It makes you look bad.
>
> Paul H. Dillon
>
>
>
> Tony Whitson wrote:
> First, a quick correction: MARTY (not Mary) Moss-Coane (I think she's also
> the producer for Terry Gross' Fresh Air, which more listeners might be
> familiar with).
> I was hoping that "Radio Times" transcripts are on Lexis/Nexis, but
> apparently they'r not. (Other NPR programs like Morning Edition & All
> Things Considered are transcribed there. Looks like Philadelphia WHYY
> produced-shows are not).
>
> To my topic for this post:
> This affair illustrates concretely the consequences of eroding language.
> Bollinger, following Bush and others, have taken to calling Ahmadinejad a
> "dictator." While a case can be made for calling, say, Hugo Chavez a
> dictator, Ahmadinejad is anything but that -- although we could be helping
> him along.
>
> Unless the word has lost its meaning, a dictator is somebody with
> dictatorial power, as when Julius Caesar became "dictator for life." North
> Korea's Kim would qualify for that, but Ahmadinejad actually has very
> little power to decide or "dictate" the policy positions of Iran. By all
> accounts, there has been substantial and growing criticism and opposition
> to his political leadership within Iran. Most people I've heard since the
> Columbia event yesterday predict that it will only strengthen him, and his
> political position, within his own country. A bit more informed clarity,
> and verbal & conceptual precision, might help avoid playing into this sort
> of development, IMHO.
>
> You can call him all kinds of things (demagogue, hate-monger, villan ...),
> including maybe "would-be" or "wannabe" dictator; but an actual dictator
> he is not, at least not for now.
>
> On Tue, 25 Sep 2007, Ana Marjanovic-Shane wrote:
>
>> There was a very interesting talk on the Public Radio "Radio Times" by Mary
>> Moss-Coane with TRITA PARSI is President of the National Iranian-American
>> Coalition and with HAMID DABASHI, a professor of Iranian Studies and
>> Comparative Literature at Columbia University. If you care to listen to it,
>> you can download the pod-cast here (probably tomorrow or later today when
>> they give a link to it: http://www.whyy.org/cgi-bin/newwebRTlookup.cgi
>> It will most probably become a pod-cast in a few hours.
>>
>> Both speakers agreed that the Columbia's President Bolinger did not handle
>> this occasion well, because by blatantly attacking Ahmadinejad in his own
>> school he made him (Ahmadinejad) look like a victim. There were many
>> interesting points both had to say, and they did not always agree with each
> -> other.
>> Ana
>>
>> ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org wrote:
>>> David:
>>>
>>> Providing a stage for a polarizing figure such as Ahmadinejad is exactly
>>> how colleges have faired over the years. How does this preclude not
>>> asking
>>> difficult questions?
>>>
>>> eric
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> David
>>> Preiss
>>>>> cl>
>>> cc:
>>> Sent by: Subject: [xmca] Columbia events
>>> xmca-bounces@web
>>> er.ucsd.edu
>>> 09/24/2007 09:36
>>> PM
>>> Please respond
>>> to "eXtended
>>> Mind, Culture,
>>> Activity"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear XMCArs,
>>>
>>> I followed from Chile the strange sequence of events at Columbia at
>>> the international press. I was wondering if somebody wants to comment
>>> the issues raised by the occasion. At least, for me, it is hard to
>>> understand the final move made by L. Bollinger: to invite the iranian
>>> president, and then to attack him verbally. What was that? If he
>>> really thinks what he says, he should have not invited him, first
>>> place. But if he made that, to excoriate the guy his institution was
>>> inviting as a result of context pressure, then he is acting
>>> hypocritically and using the hate the iranian president raises to
>>> gain publicity. Too contradictory for me and anything but the way
>>> academic life and free speech should be handled, in my opinion.
>>>
>>>
>>> David Preiss, Ph.D.
>>> Subdirector de Extensión y Comunicaciones
>>> Escuela de Psicología
>>> Pontificia Universidad Catolica de Chile
>>> Av Vicuña Mackenna 4860
>>> Macul, Santiago
>>> Chile
>>>
>>> Fono: 3544605
>>> Fax: 3544844
>>> e-mail: davidpreiss@uc.cl
>>> web personal: http://web.mac.com/ddpreiss/
>>> web institucional: http://www.epuc.cl
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> xmca mailing list
>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> xmca mailing list
>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>
>>>
>>> __________ NOD32 2549 (20070925) Information __________
>>>
>>> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
>>> http://www.eset.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> //
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> /Ana Marjanovic-Shane, Ph.D./
>> /151 W. Tulpehocken St./
>>
>> /Philadelphia//, PA 19144///
>>
>> /(h) 215-843-2909/
>>
>> /ana@zmajcenter.org /
>>
>> /http://www.speakeasy.org/~anamshane /
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> xmca mailing list
>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>
>
> Tony Whitson
> UD School of Education
> NEWARK DE 19716
>
> twhitson@udel.edu
> _______________________________
>
> "those who fail to reread
> are obliged to read the same story everywhere"
> -- Roland Barthes, S/Z (1970)_______________________________________________
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Tonight's top picks. What will you watch tonight? Preview the hottest shows on Yahoo! TV.
> _______________________________________________
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
Tony Whitson
UD School of Education
NEWARK DE 19716
twhitson@udel.edu
_______________________________
"those who fail to reread
are obliged to read the same story everywhere"
-- Roland Barthes, S/Z (1970)_______________________________________________
xmca mailing list
xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
---------------------------------
Got a little couch potato?
Check out fun summer activities for kids.
_______________________________________________
xmca mailing list
xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
Received on Tue Sep 25 20:16 PDT 2007
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.8 : Mon Oct 08 2007 - 06:02:26 PDT