Re: [xmca] Fundamental Questions

Sounds very instructive and powerful, Helena.
Up to now we have been sort of assuming macro-cultural variations, but
your example brings the issue back to the political economic conditions
of local cultural formation.
mike

On 9/5/07, Worthen, Helena Harlow <hworthen@ad.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>
> I had been reading this thread, about individual/collective, with a
> sense of detachment until this morning when I realized that a film we
> showed in a class last night provides an instance of the process of
> separating the individual from the collective. The "individual" and
> "collective" aren't abstract, either, and both are fully dramatized.
>
> It's Ken Loach's 2001 film The Navigators, about a team of railroad
> workers experiencing the privatization and break-up of British Rail
> under Margaret Thatcher. The workers have functioned in this heavily
> unionized environment for -- well, the oldest shows a photo of himself
> with his team that has to be 45 years old -- and they possess all the
> social norms of that very collective environment; one refuses
> opportunities to work any overtime as long as others "are on the dole."
> One by one, they learn in different ways what the new work system will
> require of them, namely, to act not as a collective but as individuals.
> It's a brilliant film. You can chart this process as it unrolls step by
> step, differently with each character.
>
> Helena
>
>
> Helena Worthen
> Clinical Associate Professor
> Labor Education Program
> Institute of Labor & Industrial Relations
> 504 E. Armory, Room 227
> Champaign, IL 61821
> Phone: 217-244-4095
> hworthen@uiuc.edu
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
> On Behalf Of Mike Cole
> Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 10:10 PM
> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: Re: [xmca] Fundamental Questions
>
> Stick with it on the ontology issue, Michael. Its a life time's
> preoccupation and a good one.
> If this thread continues, we are going to need to consider the fact that
> as
> social beings we are
> also BIOLOGICAL beings (as well as CULTURAL) beings, and these 3 factors
> are
> all in play.
> With CSCL as a framework you are not likely to be dealing with rocks and
> trees and water....
> (not that the problems go away).
>
> As to the individual|collective antinomy, (thanks tony!), the fact that
> Anglo Americans are way
> way out there on the individualism side of things as Paul points out is
> important for all of us
> to keep in mind (without going to the opposite extreme which has its
> mirror
> image problems)
> mike
>
> On 9/4/07, Michael A. Evans <mae@vt.edu> wrote:
> >
> > Mike and All,
> >
> > Thank you very much for the links and resources - the chapter provided
> > below
> > is especially helpful for preparing to respond to the question of
> > ontology,
> > the "basic concept of reality"...chapter 3 of the same source
> addresses
> > epistemology, which I'll look at as well...
> >
> > I may be misguided here, but when I referred to social constructivism
> I
> > was
> > thinking (primarily) of an epistemology, how one comes to know and
> what
> > that
> > knowledge is, that was equally influenced by social interaction and
> > cultural
> > context - thus, my students and I are exploring intermental
> development of
> > higher order thinking, this is the focus of Stahl's text...another
> concept
> > we're exploring is "intersubjective meaning making," which Suthers
> (2006)
> > has proposed as an important research agenda for CSCL:
> > http://tinyurl.com/3agcgl
> >
> > The dialectical unity of opposites (say, individual vs. collective) is
> > very
> > intriguing as a line of thought and is supported in one of our
> readings
> > from
> > this week: Dalgarno, B. (2001). Interpretations of constructivism and
> > consequences for computer assisted learning. British Journal of
> > Educational
> > Technology, 32(2), 183-194.
> >
> > In this piece, Dalgarno cites Moshman (1982) to identify 3 strands of
> > constructivism - endogenous, exogenous, and dialectical, dialectical
> > constructivism defined as an approach that "emphasises the role of
> social
> > interaction in the learner's knowledge construction process, leading
> to an
> > emphasis on cooperative and collaborative learning strategies" (p.
> 190)...
> >
> > I must say that what I found encouraging during last night's class was
> > that
> > although students were admittedly uncomfortable with concepts such as
> "a
> > world without withins," they were willing to "hang in there" to
> explore
> > the
> > possibilities of a non-dualistic approach...
> >
> > Thanks, again!
> > Michael~
> > --
> > ____________________________________
> > michael a. evans
> > assistant professor
> > 306 war memorial hall (0313)
> > department of learning sciences & technologies
> > school of education
> > virginia tech
> > email: mae@vt.edu
> > phone: +1 540.231.3743
> > fax: +1 540.231.9075
> >
> >
> >
> > > From: Mike Cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>
> > > Reply-To: <mcole@weber.ucsd.edu>, "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
> > > <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > > Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 14:28:05 -0700
> > > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture,Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > > Subject: [xmca] Fundamental Questions
> > >
> > > We all learn through teaching, Mike, and you are lucky to have
> students
> > > asking fundamental questions.
> > >
> > > I am not sure precisely what you mean by social constructivism, and
> will
> > see
> > > what others have to say since I am guessing that the answers are
> going
> > to
> > > vary a lot. (And I have a LOT of reading to do to get ready to teach
> > > classes in a couple of weeks!, and Tony's query re joint mediated
> > activity
> > > to deal with!). So I took the following
> > > dodge thinking it might be helpful to you.
> > >
> > > 1) I googled leontiev ontology and found a lot of info. This site
> > directly
> > > addresses your question from the
> > > perspective of a leading activity theorist.
> > > http://informationr.net/ir/12-3/Karpatschof/Chapter_2.pdf
> > >
> > > 2) I googled the lchc site itself (google on home page) for
> > > individual/collective. There has been a lot
> > > of discussion here about that. (I do not know the way to create that
> > > directly vertical symbol that michael
> > > roth and others do to indicate a dialectic unity of opposites).
> Anyway,
> > > googling just the lchc site
> > > works well.
> > >
> > > good luck!
> > > mikec
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > xmca mailing list
> > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
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Received on Wed Sep 5 09:52 PDT 2007