Re: [xmca] Don C about the "epic" googlization film - a bit ofmcahistory

From: Mike Cole <lchcmike who-is-at>
Date: Fri Jun 29 2007 - 13:53:42 PDT

Very interesting video, Naeem. By chance (?) I was speaking to Jan
conference on "technology enhanced learning" just before seeing this. Very
relevant. But daunting in the extreme.
See you when you return.

On 6/28/07, Naeem Hashmi <> wrote:
> Louise,
> Interesting observations... Today, I see no one to be an expert in
> anything.. Each discipline is so huge that we always feel (at least I do),
> that as soon as we learn something becomes almost obsolete before the
> day
> ends. I recall when I was growing up in Pakistan. In our town, and still
> in
> some villages today, a barber is also a surgeon, can perform circumcision,
> can shave you while you still chewing some thing, and then can shave your
> armpits as well (if you desire) and when time comes for wedding, same
> barber
> becomes chef and come to prepare feast for the huge wedding parties....The
> Barber had expertise in many disciplines with the circle of a community.
> The problem here is that they have narrow-expertise in few areas and have
> no
> opportunity to grow beyond due to lack of cross- community
> information/communication exchanges. And a slightly different
> example. In
> a village in India, a father took his newly born son to an expert
> astrologist and asked for his sons' future... The astrologer, after
> thinking
> deeply opened his eyes and said... he sees a good future for him... Your
> son
> will be respected person and always surrounded with all sort of
> vehicles...
> Father was very happy, since he never had imagined to be around a car
> other
> than a bull cart in his village... So father anxiously waited till his son
> grew up and went to another city to work. Later, proud father went to
> visit
> his son and to see how his son at work... father was surprised... yes.
> there
> were hundreds of cars around his son the entire day not because his son
> was
> rich rather son turned out to be a traffic controller -- the police
> fellow
> who directs the Indian traffic where every things goes on the same road
> but
> in all directions... So sometimes the way 'experts' envision things, there
> is some truth to that vision, but not exact how it is perceived by others.
> Same goes in today's world. The only difference is that now we cal all
> team-up (virtually - like this), collaborate and learn from our limited
> knowledge (expertise) to bring new composite-knowledge which as no
> boundaries and source for innovations.
> Also I see kids with playstations like tools are quick learners, and adopt
> to new situations quickly with good motor coordination and quick reactions
> when faced with unknown situations. And many pilots are also trained in
> playstation like simulators before they set foot in the cockpits.
> We need to encourage and enforce our young's to bring their own strengths
> and collectively learn and share their experience/knowledge among extended
> communities as compared to making them 'experts' in one or another thing.
> And 'epics' like thing or 'Do you know' (
> ) at the YouTube are worth
> showing to our Teachers and Young to prepare them with new realities.
> Regards,
> Naeem
> ---
> Naeem Hashmi
> Chief Research Officer
> Information Frameworks
> T: 603-552-5171 M: 603-661-6820
> W:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Louise Hawkins" <>
> To: <>; "eXtended Mind, Culture,Activity"
> <>
> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 7:45 PM
> Subject: RE: [xmca] Don C about the "epic" googlization film - a bit
> ofmcahistory
> Mike,
> The discussion is really pointing out that an expert and a novice are both
> context dependant. Depends on the context, who is involved as to whom is
> the
> expert/novice, if these labels are even useful.
> I watched the movie 'Snakes on a plane' - Samuel L Jackson the other day.
> At
> one point they need to find someone who can fly the plane - one of the
> passengers states that he has a certain number of hours.... Only after a
> few
> minutes in the pilots seat does he state that his experience is 2000 hours
> on a playstation!!!!!
> Thank goodness for properly qualified, experienced pilots out there :)
> Louise
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Cole []
> Sent: Friday, 29 June 2007 12:31 AM
> To: Wolff-Michael Roth
> Cc: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: Re: [xmca] Don C about the "epic" googlization film - a bit of
> mcahistory
> Steve-- I believe the Googlezon film is a useful tool for thinking about
> the
> issue of changes in agency and ontology associated with massive parallel
> computing systems that are the media for our knowledge of thought and the
> world. It also overlaps the theme of data mining for inter-cultural
> business
> advertising and decision making Naeem introduced. Sure, there is a lot of
> hype, which includes the hype over how flat the world is, but Friedman is
> pointing at a real phenomenon, or part of one.
> Michael. I am all for organizing activity that leads to expansive
> learning.
> But, again, going to the opposite
> extreme and saying that deep knowledge and skill in a domain is simply a
> mode of hierarchy/power creation is, in my view, not helpful. Two really
> friendly and cooperative peers who have no experience gardening (to pick a
> domain where I readily concede my dufferhood, yet try to contribute as
> best
> I can, while not hesitating to stop in at my garden store to figure out
> why
> and how I killed two fig trees in two years) might starve because they
> cannot expand quickly enough. By the same token. western experts who went
> into Liberia to "teach the farmers" how to grow rice more efficiently
> were,
> for the reasons that bother Michael and Louise. responsible for widespread
> misery, starvation, displacement of people from the land, etc. I am not
> valorizing expertise unconditionally. I do value highly taking advantage
> of
> the enormous heterogeneity of knowledge in a very heterogeneous and
> uncertain world. I still do not want my grand daughter piloting the next
> plane I ride in, even if her best friend is co pilot.
> mike
> Mi
> On 6/28/07, Wolff-Michael Roth <> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Mike,
> > perhaps we have to rethink the "more knowledgeable partner" and think
> > zpd as Yrjö suggested as a change in the activity system that leads to
> > expansive learning, and this may happen also in the case were equally
> > knowledgeable partners get together, or if a new tool is introduced,
> > different forms of division of labor are evolved, etc.
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
> >
> > On 27-Jun-07, at 7:41 PM, Mike Cole wrote:
> >
> > No one picked up on this and I should probably just drop it but the
> >
> > continued discussion on ZOPED prompts me to ask, could a computer
> >
> > algorithm be a "more knowledgeable" partner? Adaptive testing is
> > another
> >
> > example of an artificial intelligence that tries to move people into a
> >
> > zone of maximum response. If the vision in EPIC 2015 were actualized,
> >
> > might not the algorithm be a sensei, showing us the way forward? I
> >
> > understand that the notion of _forward_ is problematic, but is that
> > not
> >
> > also true of a human sensei......or any teacher? And why should the
> > goal
> >
> > in a zoped be the ability to act independently? Most of the things in
> > my
> >
> > life that have expanded my capabilities are things I have come to rely
> >
> > on and are now a part of me. I can't imagine how I ever wrote anything
> >
> > of value when I wrote in long hand, had a poor (now nearly blind
> > thanks
> >
> > to me) secretary type it up, correct, edit, repeat, and so forth. Here
> > I
> >
> > link with Donna's contribution where she mentions natural born cyborgs.
> >
> > Can anyone doubt that within my lifetime (and I'm OLD) that things
> > like
> >
> > MP3's and cell phones will be available as surgical implants?
> >
> >
> >
> > Mind you, this all scares the beejeezes out of me..........djc
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
> >
> >
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Received on Fri Jun 29 13:55 PDT 2007

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