Re: correction RE: [xmca] Reference for ontological and phylogenetic languagecomparison

From: Martin Packer (packer@duq.edu)
Date: Thu Jan 11 2007 - 19:16:18 PST


A good example of cultural influences on phylogeny is the recent discovery
of the effects that new practices of herding and milking cattle had in
Africa on the distribution of genes that cause lactose intolerance. Very
rapid genetic changes, over a couple of thousand years, if I remember
correctly. Can't find the refs right now, unfortunately. It was NYT or BBC.

Martin

On 1/11/07 10:49 AM, "ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org" <ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org> wrote:

>
> Michael and Tony:
>
> Thank you for the useful information. What cultural influences would
> produce the phylogentic development?
>
> eric
>
>
>
> Tony Whitson
> <twhitson who-is-at UDel.E To: "'eXtended Mind,
> Culture, Activity'" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> du> cc: Mike Cole
> <mcole@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Sent by: Subject: correction RE: [xmca]
> Reference for ontological and phylogenetic
> xmca-bounces who-is-at web languagecomparison
> er.ucsd.edu
>
>
> 01/11/2007 09:39
> AM
> Please respond
> to "eXtended
> Mind, Culture,
> Activity"
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I inserted "phylogenic" in the wrong place before. It's fixed below.
>
> On Thu, 11 Jan 2007, Tony Whitson wrote:
>
>> What a nice, useful analogy Michael.
>>
>> I'm thinking about how to make it more precisely parallel. The
> (ontogenic)
>> development of language ability in the child could be compared with the
>> (ontogenic) development of a player's football skills (I'm thinking
>> basketball might work better, since -- at least in US "gridiron" football
> --
>> most players on the field have specialized roles not requiring as great a
>> range of versatile skills as in basketball [IMHO: a defensive left guard
>> might think otherwise]). So, the development of a [basketball] player's
>> skills would not recapitulate the (phylogenic) development of the game
> itself. Skills
>> that might have had value in the game as it was played in the early
> history
>> of the game might have no value for players today, and would not be part
> of
>> a developmental stage that today's players go through on their way to
>> development of skills they use today.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On
>> Behalf Of Wolff-Michael Roth
>> Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 10:22 AM
>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>> Cc: mcole@weber.ucsd.edu
>> Subject: Re: [xmca] Reference for ontological and phylogenetic
>> languagecomparison
>>
>> A CHAT perspective built on the dialectic of individual and
>> collective, the person realizes cultural possibilities available to
>> any one else. From this perspective, children grow up in a different
>> material context, hearing different utterances in the context of
>> different situation. This would lead to the contention that ontogeny
>> does not recapitulate phylogeny, much in the same way that a present
>> day football game would not recapitulate the first football game ever
>> played or its precursor. (The referent of "football" can be taken the
>> British or American way).
>> Michael
>>
>> On 11-Jan-07, at 6:46 AM, ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org wrote:
>>
>>
>> Dan I. Slobin has an article, "From Ontogenesis to phylogenesis: what
>> can
>> child language tell us about language evolution?" that appears in IN
>> the
>> j. Langer, S.T. Parker edited volume, "BIology and Knowledge.
>>
>> The questions he poses in the article are: Does linguistic ontogeny
>> recapitulate phylogeny?, Does linguistic diachrony recapitulate
>> ontogony?
>> OD children create grammatical forms?
>>
>> good read but not a CHAT perspective but rather biologicaly based.
>>
>> eric
>>
>>
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>>
>
> Tony Whitson
> UD School of Education
> NEWARK DE 19716
>
> twhitson@udel.edu
> _______________________________
>
> "those who fail to reread
> are obliged to read the same story everywhere"
> -- Roland Barthes, S/Z (1970)
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