Sounds plausible to me, Andy. It makes an easy link to issues of identity.
mike
On 6/14/06, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
>
> If I want to remember every note in a piano piece then it helps lots if I
> can play it with my fingers and hear the notes back, doesn't it? The
> sensuous experience of playing and hearing the music as well as seeing the
> notes on the page, helps me reproduce it. Can we throw the emotional
> experience of learning something you wanted to learn, or of recognising
> yourself in a play, in the same basket with other sensuous experiences,
> like that of playing and hearing the music? Aren't they all part of
> learning? What is raised with emotion is *why* does a particular thing
> carry an emotional load, and therefore get learnt? What was the source of
> the rush Franklin felt when he recognised himself in the play, since I am
> guessing that it was that recognition which gave the rush, rather than the
> "getting it" at last?
>
> Andy
> At 09:49 AM 14/06/2006 -0700, you wrote:
> >Great turn in the discussion!
> >1) Sure there is a long history of interaction before the Franklin event.
> >And its
> >relevant. There was a long history to two sisters playing sisters also.
> >And emotion
> >and identity involved. But all of that is elided in the LSV discussion
> >(not a criticism,
> >he was using it as an example) and yet poeple site it in discussions of
> >how play
> >creates a zoped.
> >
> >2. LSV and ARL= every word generalizes/classifies. We have words in the
> >English
> >language like learning, development, thought, emotion (see prior messages
> in
> >this thread. They make analytic distinctions referring to/relevant to
> >presumed processes
> >that are themselves mutually constituitive. Yes, we murder to dissect.
> >
> >No, we cannot say what we mean.
> >
> >Not sure where to go with this conversation at present. We need to read
> >David K's
> >work collectively in order to be able to take in his alternative view of
> >things. We have
> >Kevin's work that people wanted to discuss waiting in the wings. We have
> >summer
> >approaching.
> >
> >And I have a meeting I have to be in 5 minutes ago.
> >mike
> >
> >On 6/14/06, Renee <rhayes@mundo-r.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>Right, I was just thinking something like that when I read Jennifer's
> >>message, too. At first there was some discussion about relationships and
> >>learning and ZPD, and surely emotion and relationships can't be teased
> >>apart?
> >>
> >>renee
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
> On
> >>Behalf Of Jennifer Vadeboncoeur
> >>Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 6:07 PM
> >>To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> >>Subject: Re: [xmca] Re: something magical
> >>
> >>Just reading through these, so I may have missed something, but
> >>wasn't "emotion" there all along? Why has emotion been separated out?
> >>It seems we are assuming we can talk about thought without
> >>considering emotion, and while we've practiced doing that, I imagine
> >>it to be an unfortunate necessity given our language, rather than
> >>something "real." Hmmmm ... again, I may have missed something.
> >>
> >>Best to all - jen
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> >Surely it didn't all happen in the final play episode - his
> understanding
> >> >had to be building through the earlier description/abandonment moments
> -
> >> >Vivian's enactment may have crystallized Franklin's thoughts - but a
> lot
> >>of
> >> >groundwork had been done beforehand. when did emotion enter in -
> become
> >> >instrumental in the learning? was it building as well during the
> >>unpleasant
> >> >episodes with his classmates? or was it merely in the eureka rush?
> >> >
> >> >On 6/14/06, Mike Cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>For goodness sake lets agree that we are not talking about the
> >> >>biochemistry
> >> >>of
> >> >>emotion, but of emotion as a bio-social-cogntive aspect of human
> >> >>functioning
> >> >>that
> >> >>is integral to human functioning in the world!
> >> >>
> >> >>The self-recognition/identity process in the case of Franklin seems
> key
> >> >>to
> >> >>me
> >> >>as well. Why couldn't he construct that
> >>self-knowledge-memory-recognition
> >> >>from
> >> >>an other's description and several others' abandonment of him a few
> >> >>moments
> >> >>earlier
> >> >>but could when drawn into the play? That seems to me a crucial
> question.
> >> >>mike
> >> >>
> >> >>On 6/14/06, deborah downing-wilson <ddowningw@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I agree. like most of us just starting out I've been struggling
> with
> >> >>the
> >> >>> emotional element - trying to come at it from as many angles as
> >>possible
> >> >>-
> >> >>> I
> >> >>> like Plotkin's speculation that the emotional intensity of the
> >> >>> parent-child
> >> >>> relationship suggests emotion has a place in the deliberate
> passing
> >>of
> >> >>> information to the next generation - it seems fitting that it has
> a
> >> >>> special
> >> >>> place in all learning. We certainly do a lot of whooping and
> >>cheering
> >> >>> when
> >> >>> our babies/children learn somehting new. Damasio's work is also
> >> >>> interesting
> >> >>> - like others he argues that emotions are socially constructed -
> but
> >> >>turns
> >> >>> the idea around. Instead of being expressions of inner feelings,
> the
> >> >>> learned social response (smile) engenders inner subjective
> feelings
> >> >>> (joy). can
> >> >>> we capture and explore these events within the zoped? can we
> create
> >> >>> contexts that encourage emotional envolvement? Paley seemed to do
> it
> >> >>with
> >> >>> Franklin - but she and Franklin had a long history together -
> built
> >> >>trust.
> >> >>> so many questions. no time.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Deb
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On 6/14/06, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > I can't explain Deborah. This is just something I've heard about
> in
> >> >>the
> >> >>> > media. I hesitate to say any more and only further display my
> >> >>ignorance.
> >> >>> I
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > only know that when you learn something and you get a big
> emotional
> >> >>hit
> >> >>> at
> >> >>> > the same time, positive or negative, you're not going to forget
> it.
> >> >>> > Learning is not a totally 'platonic' process is it - *something*
> >> >>changes
> >> >>> > in
> >> >>> > our body when we acquire habits.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > Andy
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > At 09:26 PM 13/06/2006 -0700, you wrote:
> >> >>> > >biochemical affect? please explain.
> >> >>> > >
> >> >>> > >On 6/13/06, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net > wrote:
> >> >>> > >>
> >> >>> > >>Well I think it would be superficial to stop at emotion
> (though
> >>at
> >>a
> >> >>> > very
> >> >>> > >>basic level the experience of emotion is intuitively
> accessible
> >>and
> >> >>> > >>telling). I think emotions only make sense if we have a handle
> on
> >> >>> > identity
> >> >>> > >>and however we understand what it is that it means to "do"
> >> >>something,
> >> >>> to
> >> >>> > >>be
> >> >>> > >>an actor in the world. If we leave emotion at the level of
> >> >>biochemical
> >> >>> > >>affect we surely have no real way of connecting it with
> learning.
> >> >>Why
> >> >>> > was
> >> >>> > >>Franklin delighted when he saw that he was the star in this
> >>little
> >> >>> play?
> >> >>> > >>How did he recognise that it was himself?
> >> >>> > >>Andy
> >> >>> > >>At 07:37 AM 13/06/2006 -0700, you wrote:
> >> >>> > >> >My guess is that it is recriprocal emotionality, Andy. A
> >> >>particular
> >> >>> > kind
> >> >>> > >> >of difference that makes a difference.
> >> >>> > >> >What were people feeling when everyone turned to Franklin as
> >>they
> >> >>> > >> >recognized Vivian "being" Franklin? What
> >> >>> > >> >did they feel when he slapped his knee and said. "You got it
> >>just
> >> >>> > >> >right"? And what did he feel? Certainly not bad,
> >> >>> > >> >judging from the evidence.
> >> >>> > >> >
> >> >>> > >> >And what was THE cause of this convergence of positive
> affect?
> >>Its
> >> >>> in
> >> >>> > the
> >> >>> > >> >intricacies of the answer to that question
> >> >>> > >> >that we need a Zo to help us understand.
> >> >>> > >> >mike
> >> >>> > >> >
> >> >>> > >> >On 6/12/06, Andy Blunden <<mailto: ablunden@mira.net>
> >> >>> ablunden@mira.net
> >> >>> > >
> >> >>> > >>wrote:
> >> >>> > >> >>Mike Cole said:
> >> >>> > >> >> >[snip]
> >> >>> > >> >> >This "something magical" certainly is very important in
> our
> >> >>> > >>afterschool
> >> >>> > >> >> >work. It includes not only the experience and good will
> of
> >> >>those
> >> >>> > >>involved,
> >> >>> > >> >> >but also strong emotional bonds that grow between
> >>undergrads,
> >> >>> kids
> >> >>> > and
> >> >>> > >> >> >staff. -- almost a kind of emotional flow.
> >> >>> > >> >>
> >> >>> > >> >>Mike, this "something magical" seems to be the emotional
> hit
> >>that
> >> >>> > both
> >> >>> > >> >>learner and teacher get when the learner makes a
> breakthrough
> >>in
> >> >>> > >>learning
> >> >>> > >> >>and development, doesn't it? I remember hearing stuff in
> the
> >> >>media
> >> >>> > which
> >> >>> > >> >>went to the neurological basis of how emotions reinforce
> >> >>learning,
> >> >>> > and I
> >> >>> > >> >>understand it is a regular part of sports coaching nowadays
> to
> >> >>> > >>deliberately
> >> >>> > >> >>manipulate the emotional experiences of performers when
> they
> >>do
> >>a
> >> >>> > thing
> >> >>> > >> >>right or do it wrong supposedly to bring about neurological
> >> >>changes
> >> >>> > >>which
> >> >>> > >> >>will attract or repel repetitions of the action.
> >> >>> > >> >>
> >> >>> > >> >>It always seemed to me that in our theory of the use of
> >>artefacts
> >> >>> > this
> >> >>> > >> >>emotional loading tends to be overlooked, and yet that is
> >>surely
> >> >>> > exactly
> >> >>> > >> >>what is magical?
> >> >>> > >> >>
> >> >>> > >> >>
> >> >>> > >> >>Andy
> >> >>> > >> >>
> >> >>> > >>
> >> >>> > >>Andy Blunden, for Victorian Peace Network, phone +61 3 9380
> 9435
> >> >>> > >>Global Justice Tours: http://ethicalpolitics.org
> >> >>> > >>
> >> >>> > >>_______________________________________________
> >> >>> > >>xmca mailing list
> >> >>> > >>xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >> >>> > >>http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >> >>> > >
> >> >>> > >
> >> >>> > >
> >> >>> > >--
> >> >>> > >Deborah Downing-Wilson
> >> >>> > >_______________________________________________
> >> >>> > >xmca mailing list
> >> >>> > >xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >> >>> > >http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > Andy Blunden, for Victorian Peace Network, phone +61 3 9380 9435
> >> >>> > Global Justice Tours: http://ethicalpolitics.org
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > _______________________________________________
> >> >>> > xmca mailing list
> >> >>> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >> >>> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >> >>> >
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> --
> >> >>> Deborah Downing-Wilson
> >> >>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>> xmca mailing list
> >> >>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >> >>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >> >>>
> >> >>_______________________________________________
> >> >>xmca mailing list
> >> >>xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >> >>http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >--
> >> >Deborah Downing-Wilson
> >> >_______________________________________________
> >> >xmca mailing list
> >> >xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >> >http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >>
> >>
> >>--
> >>______________________________
> >>
> >>Dr. Jennifer A. Vadeboncoeur
> >>The University of British Columbia
> >>Faculty of Education
> >>2125 Main Mall
> >>Library Block 272B
> >>Vancouver BC V6T-1Z4
> >>
> >>phone: 1.604.822.9099
> >>fax: 1.604.822.3302
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>xmca mailing list
> >>xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >>http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>xmca mailing list
> >>xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >>http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >_______________________________________________
> >xmca mailing list
> >xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
> Andy Blunden, for Victorian Peace Network, phone +61 3 9380 9435
> Global Justice Tours: http://ethicalpolitics.org
>
>
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