Re: [xmca] LCA: Speaking of antinomies

From: Mike Cole (lchcmike@gmail.com)
Date: Fri Jul 29 2005 - 15:04:07 PDT


Ruqaiya, Michael et al--
 Attached is a passage from Alexander Kozulin's book on Vygotsky
and his followers that has a very relevant commentary on the relation
between curriculum changes and the societies in which they occur.
 Davydov's ideas, which have appeared here and in the parallel discussion
about Ilyenkov might appear to be all about math (or about language-- a
topic worth delving into further vis a vis the LCA discussion), but what
comes
out strongly are the deep ideological implications of seemingly dry and
boring work on teaching kids better math. We are not living in Brezhnev's
USSR (remember Brezhnev?). But the lessons seem to me to apply very
acutely to the circumstances we DO find ourselves in and to such questions
as why, for example, issues of inequality or social justice might not appear
in the writings of people from particular places and particular eras,
regardless
of their own thoughts on the matter (whatever own thoughts means).
mike

 On 7/26/05, ruqaiya hasan <Ruqaiya.Hasan@ling.mq.edu.au> wrote:
>
> Wolff-Michael I have not had the pleasure of reading your stuff but I
> agree
> with you "that educators have to change" and that "what we need to be able
> to do is engage with others who think and feel very differently, and do so
> without putting them down, that is, in democratic ways so that we can
> cogenerate solutions to the problems we face as a collective."
> thanks for this.
> Ruqaiya
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Wolff-Michael Roth" <mroth@uvic.ca>
> To: <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 12:40 AM
> Subject: Re: [xmca] LCA: Speaking of antinomies
>
>
> Hi Armando,
> I agree the necessity for doing the kind of work you outline in your
> last sentence. This is why I conceptualized, for example, science
> education as an endeavor where students learn while engaging in and for
> social action. E.g.,
>
>
> Roth, W.-M., & Lee, S. (2004). Science education as/for participation
> in the community. Science Education, 88, 263–291.
> Roth, W.-M., & Lee, S. (2002). Scientific literacy as collective
> praxis. Public Understanding of Science, 11, 33–56.
>
> But this means that educators have to change. If we educate as and for
> collective praxis, then it is no longer important that everyone knows
> the same thing at the same time. Rather, what we need to be able to do
> is engage with others who think and feel very differently, and do so
> without putting them down, that is, in democratic ways so that we can
> cogenerate solutions to the problems we face as a collective.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Michael
>
> On 24-Jul-05, at 7:10 AM, Armando Perez wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Michael:
> > I m really in accord with you that it is in practice,
> > action that are integrated both planes of
> > subjectivity, that I work out as colective and
> > personal(inter and inter). I agree also that both are
> > premise and results of practice, action. But, if it is
> > possible to establish theoretically and
> > epistemologically that in its genesis, development and
> > so on both are transversalizased for practice, in its
> > real movement may be in real antagonism,
> > contradiction. That´s why we are working, now, in
> > Cuba, as projects of research, in the development of a
> > community that could integtrate as much as possible
> > the personal and the social in a community project.
> > Armando
> >
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