Re: Challenge to Christie in school instruction

From: Phil Chappell (
Date: Thu Sep 16 2004 - 07:11:12 PDT

There used to be a link at the LCHC site for a 'ftp'?? site that had an
excellent summary by Gordon Well's of Michael Halliday's work. I have
it somewhere on this machine, and will post it if and when I find it.
Otherwise, if anyone remembers the link (I recall it being revived by
N**e), please post it.

On Sep 16, 2004, at 4:29 AM, von Brevern Hansjoerg wrote:

> Dear Peter,
> thank you for this nice link,
> best regards,
> George
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Smagorinsky []
> Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 3:27 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: Challenge to Christie in school instruction
> I know that Gordon Wells has made the Halliday/LSV connection. see
> e.g.
> Peter
> At 07:20 PM 9/9/2004 +0700, you wrote:
> Problem-poster David Kellog asked me to forward this response to the
> list. Not sure I agree that there aren't others who are interested in
> intersections of Halliday and Vygotsky (and of course, Bernstein).
> Any takers?
> Phil
> Dear Phil:
> (Can't seem to get it on XCMA--but I'm not sure anybody besides you
> would be interested as Vygotsky vs. Halliday is a somewhat specialized
> interest....)
> One of Christie's concrete recommendations is that classroom genres
> like the "morning news" or "show and tell" should be eliminated, and
> instead children should be given more "structured" genres. She would
> like the "instructional register" to be projected by the "regulative
> register". (Christie [2003], Classroom Discourse Analysis, London:
> Continuum.)
> When Hallidayans say things like this, they mean, basically, that
> registers can "project" each other rather the way that a reporting
> clause like "She said" serves to project the reported one "that she
> had a stomachache". 
> It's true that when a teacher says something like "Listen and repeat"
> we have precisely that kind of projection. It's also true on a larger
> scale: on my desk I have a transcript of a science class in which a
> teacher basically lays out the procedure and the children follow it
> (but the kids do not achieve the desired result and they will have to
> do the "experiment" all over again this Friday!).
> It's a highly monologic idea, isn't it? In Bakhtin, even when you are
> using indirect speech there is two way traffic--the projected also
> projects itself onto the projector, as when Dickens describes a
> character in the sort of language that character would have used to
> describe himself.
> What bothers Christie about the "morning news" and "show and tell"
> classroom genres is that they allow this kind of two way traffic.
> Instead, she thinks that primary school teaching should be much more
> like secondary school teaching.
> I don't know about secondary teaching; at my uni we do primary and
> nothing else. But doesn't this directly infringe Vygotsky's firm
> belief that at different stages of learning there are very different
> kinds of relationships between similar elements (viz. subject and
> object)? Doesn't it even go against the criticism that Mike cites,
> viz, that there have to be different classrooms genres at different
> levels?
> David Kellogg
> Seoul National University of Education </blockquote></x-html>

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