Dear David-
You wrote,
> I am not aware of any direct link with sleep. It
> may not be just an effect of being phisically fresh?
It does not seem to be just being fresh. In the program, they were saying
that people learn after experiencing so-called "fast sleep" but do not after
"slow sleep" (I also remember them talking about eye movements, dreaming,
and certain brain activities during "fast sleeps"). Usually series of "fast"
and "slow" sleep alternate, however more "fast sleeps" occur just before
people wake up "naturally". The study claimed that if a person is waked up
before experiencing many "fast sleeps", he or she shows little learning.
However, if the person experienced many "fast" sleeps, there is evidence of
learning (i.e., improvements of certain tasks). Again, I want to remind you
that their experiments on learning involve very decontextualized motor
tasks. In the program, the subjects were teenagers and the point of the
program was that the teens do not have enough sleep because their "natural"
sleep cycle often shifts to later time in night - late morning (even noon)
and does not fit school schedule that results in inhibiting learning because
they have fewer "fast sleeps". As to feeling fresh, people can feel fresh
with or without experiencing many "fast sleeps".
In research on learning, changes in organism are often not taken into
account. Although, when they are, it tends to be very decontextualized
research from behavioristic and information-processing perspectives.
I found some of these studies on the Internet:
http://coe.sdsu.edu/eet/Articles/sleep_memory/index.htm
http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache:85Wo79RKNdsJ:a1162.fmg.uva.nl/~djb/publ
ications/1989/biermanwinter.pdf+learning+during+sleep&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/10/031009065044.htm
It can be interesting for situated cognition, sociocultural and AT
approaches to look at the phenomenon. For example, it would be a fascinating
research to track how different cultures (and historical times) manage
learning during sleep. In Russian folk fairytales, heroes are often advised
to go to sleep after they faced with a difficult challenge because "morning
is wiser than evening." I do not know how other cultures approach it but I'm
sure they did. In Europe, after the Enlightenment, learning during sleep
seemed to be rejected as a superstition, although, again it was interesting
to track it. With reference to, I guess, Levy-Brule (sp?), Vygotsky
mentioned about traditional cultures when influential people wanted to see
in sleep a solution of a problem they faced. Vygotsky saw it a "primitive"
decision making, but, as we know, he was very Euro-centric. My examples seem
to be more about decision making than about learning (although, they
obviously relate) but it can be interesting to check specifically about
learning as well.
Learning during sleep undermines a pedagogical myth that teaching directly
causes learning or must directly cause learning. It also undermines another,
but related, pedagogical myth that learning (and experience) is clearly
concentrated rather being fuzzy and distributed on the time scale. Learning
during sleep makes post-event learning more evident.
What do you think?
Eugene
> -----Original Message-----
> From: david.preiss@yale.edu [mailto:david.preiss@yale.edu]
> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 1:00 AM
> To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> Subject: RE: Reflection and change in a CHAT/Cultural Psychology paradigm
>
>
>
> Dear Eugene,
>
> I think that cognitive research on insight and incubation may give you
> some keys, although I am not aware of any direct link with sleep. It
> may not be just an effect of being phisically fresh?
>
> David
>
> Quoting Eugene Matusov <ematusov@udel.edu>:
>
> > Dear Phil-
> >
> > Thanks, Phil. I've heard about work of Lozanov and suggestopaedia but
> > I do
> > not know any research about that. But the research I was talking does
> > not
> > seem to relate to Lozanov and suggestopaedia. I think that we all
> > familiar
> > with the phenomenon when "morning is wiser than evening" (using
> > Russian
> > saying), we felt changed after a sleep. Some people even talk about
> > problem
> > being solved during asleep but there is (at least anecdotal) evidence
> > that
> > people can improve their skills and understanding after being
> > asleep....
> >
> > I'd like to read any research about that...
> >
> > Eugene
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Phil Chappell [mailto:phil_chappell@access.inet.co.th]
> > > Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 8:22 PM
> > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > Subject: Re: Reflection and change in a CHAT/Cultural Psychology
> > paradigm
> > >
> > > Is that anything along the lines of the work of Lozanov and
> > > suggestopaedia, Eugene?
> > >
> > > Phil
> > > On Mar 21, 2004, at 8:01 AM, Eugene Matusov wrote:
> > >
> > > > Talking about sleeping. Does somebody know good research
> > references
> > > > about
> > > > learning during (fast) sleep? About a month ago, I saw a program
> > on PBS
> > > > about some research (I guess in Canada) about that. It was a
> > research
> > > > about
> > > > teenagers learning a rather simple motor task (very
> > decontextualized)
> > > > before
> > > > going to sleep and then checked immediately after sleep. The
> > research
> > > > shows
> > > > that people learn during fast sleep...
> > > >
> > > > Eugene
> > > >
> > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > >> From: Mike Cole [mailto:mcole@weber.ucsd.edu]
> > > >> Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 7:33 PM
> > > >> To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > >> Subject: RE: Reflection and change in a CHAT/Cultural
> > Psychology
> > > >> paradigm
> > > >>
> > > >> If my early morning are reflective and "reflective" of being in
> > a near
> > > >> sleeping state, heaven help our students who are becoming
> > sleepier by
> > > >> the
> > > >> minute.
> > > >>
> > > >> mike
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Tue Nov 09 2004 - 11:42:23 PST