Tony, can you provide reference for Jean Anyon's paper please?
Thanks,
Eugene
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tony Whitson [mailto:twhitson@UDel.Edu]
> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2003 8:48 PM
> To: Eugene Matusov
> Cc: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu; PIG
> Subject: Re: [UD-PIG] RE: Are kids naturally good with computers?
>
> I think it's not just about computers.
> Jean Anyon's venerable article on different kinds of work for diff classes
> of kids seems to describe the pattern.
>
> On Sun, 9 Nov 2003, Eugene Matusov wrote:
>
> > Dear David and everybody-
> >
> > Thanks for useful reference about Digital Divide (I'll use the link in
my
> > future classes). Although the report shows that school "eliminate" the
> > digital divide, my conversation with Latino children at Latin American
> > Community Center (LACC) shows that HOW schools use computers is
different
> > for different populations. LACC kids told me that many of them have very
> > little access to computers in their schools but when they have access it
is
> > very low quality access described nicely in Mike's old but unfortunately
> > still relevant article:
> >
> > Cole, M. & LCHC (1989). Kids and computers: A positive vision of the
future.
> > Harvard Educational Review, 59, 73-86.
> >
> > In many schools with low income kids, computers often replace worksheets
(or
> > workshits?? - pardon my French :-)/dittos to do drills or other
> > decontextualized activities using a "bottom-up" approach described in
Mike's
> > paper. Meanwhile in many schools with middle and upper income kids,
> > computers are often used to promote creativity and higher level
skills...
> >
> > What do you think?
> >
> > Eugene
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: David Preiss [mailto:david.preiss@yale.edu]
> > > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2003 6:23 PM
> > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > Subject: Re: Are kids naturally good with computers?
> > >
> > > I just happen to be working on a paper on a related issue. I took the
data
> > > below from:
> >
http://www.civilrights.org/publications/reports/nation_online/bringing_a_nat
> > ion.doc . I think that they are very appropriate to what you are taking
> > > about.
> > >
> > > I brief, data released by the US Department of Commerce portray the
shape
> > > taken by this divide in 2001. When computer use at home is considered,
the
> > > digital divide remain significant: whereas 33.1% of children (ages
10-17)
> > in
> > > the lowest income category were using computers at home, 91.7% of
children
> > > where doing so at the highest income level. However, the gap narrows
> > > significantly from home to school: whereas 80% of children (ages
10-17) in
> > > the lowest income category were using computers at school, 88.7% of
> > children
> > > where doing so at the highest income level. There are as well related
> > > differences between ethnic groups: whereas over 70% of the students
> > > identified as White, Asian American and Pacific islanders have access
to
> > > computers both at school and at home, less than 40 % of African
American
> > and
> > > Hispanics do so. Therefore, students from different income levels and
> > ethnic
> > > groups do not have the same level of engagement with technology,
despite
> > the
> > > fact that computers are playing an increasing role in their education:
as
> > > reported in 2001, 90% of all school-aged children use computers and
58.5%
> > > use the Internet to complete school assignments.
> > >
> > > I wander how this situation impacts on what you are just discussing:
the
> > > technology related tacit knowledge students bring to the school. And
we
> > > still have to note that we are not even taking into consideration
> > > differences in the quality of the equipment at school, how new it is,
and
> > so
> > > on. And that, of course, we are talking about the USA only...
> > >
> > > I guess that the shape this divide would take in the future will not
be
> > > related with just accessibility but also with how new these equipments
> > are.
> > > Technology is changing so fast that is going to be very difficult for
the
> > > poorest schools [countries] to keep the pace of change. Maybe research
on
> > > this topic will need to change its indicators for more sensitive ones.
> > More
> > > related with the topic, I ask what are the shapes taken by computer
> > related
> > > communities of practice across the digital divide?
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Eugene Matusov" <ematusov@udel.edu>
> > > To: <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2003 5:19 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Are kids naturally good with computers?
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi Phillip and everybody-
> > > >
> > > > Your example is very good - I observed this difficulty as well. Kids
> > > > entering the world of computers have to learn a lot of tacit things
such
> > > as
> > > > correspondence between their actions with keyboard, mouse and the
> > screen.
> > > > Games involve also a lot of tacit knowledge that the kids have to
learn.
> > > For
> > > > example, I saw a little kid that could not grasp that when the
screens
> > > > change the character remains the same. He thought that the game
starts
> > all
> > > > over again.
> > > >
> > > > I think that it is not true that the kids "naturally good" with
> > computers
> > > > but rather outside schools, kids' diverse cultures often organize
> > > > "communities of practice" around computer games and other
Internet-based
> > > > computer activities like chat rooms with relative ease creating
> > > > developmental pathways of learning and "intergenerational" networks
of
> > > > players. Of course, computer companies designing games make all
their
> > > > efforts to break into children market but still their success is
> > > remarkable
> > > > with regard diversity of children's cultures. This is an interesting
> > > > phenomenon.
> > > >
> > > > What do you think?
> > > >
> > > > Eugene
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: White, Phillip [mailto:Phillip.White@cudenver.edu]
> > > > > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2003 12:55 PM
> > > > > To: ematusov@UDel.Edu
> > > > > Subject: RE: Dialectical materialism / Nature
> > > > >
> > > > > Eugene wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I want to comment only on one point out of many that Andy made:
> > > > >
> > > > > I observe many of those kids learning
> > > > > computers for the first time. In my non-systematic observations, I
did
> > > not
> > > > > find that it is true that "young people know how to use screens
almost
> > > > from
> > > > > whatever background they come from ... because they have to."
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > to throw in my two-cents worth about what i think, Eugene - i
have
> > > made
> > > > similar
> > > > > observations - having working in elementary schools for the last
three
> > > > decades, many
> > > > > students come to school without a clue about how a computer works
-
> > > just
> > > > getting the
> > > > > relationship between the cursor's movement on the screen and the
> > > movements
> > > > of the mouse
> > > > > in their hand can be for some a difficulty of some duration. of
> > course,
> > > > maybe this notion of
> > > > > "young people" is defined by those who have completed elementary
> > school,
> > > > say. but for
> > > > > young people entering elementary schools it's not true - and even
as a
> > > > young person moves
> > > > > through the grades, those students whom come from homes with
computers
> > > and
> > > > internet
> > > > > access have a depth of understanding of ways to negotiate / a
sense of
> > > > identity and agency
> > > > > with computers / that students without such capital at home don't
> > have.
> > > > >
> > > > > and of course, there are always exceptions.
> > > > >
> > > > > phillip
> > > > >
> > > > > phillip white
> > > > > university of colorado at denver
> > > > > school of education
> > > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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> >
> >
>
> Tony Whitson
> UD School of Education
> NEWARK DE 19716
>
> twhitson@udel.edu
> _______________________________
>
> "those who fail to reread
> are obliged to read the same story everywhere"
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