Eric et al-- I was in touch with Barbara Rogoff on another matter and
sent her Eric's note from a couple of days ago. Here is what she wrote
in reply. Fyi
mike
-----
Well, there is a contrast between Valsiner's views and mine, which he
and I explored in his paper and my response (Rogoff, B. (1992).
Three ways to relate person and culture: Thoughts sparked by
Valsiner's review of Apprenticeship in thinking. Human Development,
35, 316-320.).
I think there's interesting and important distinctions between Jaan's
stance and mine. From Jaan's later writing, I wonder if he's shifted
more in the direction that I've been arguing, but I'm not sure.
In terms of Eric's statement about my and Eugene's views,
"because of their separation from wanting to discuss individual growth:"
This does not fit my views. I want to understand individual
development; to do so requires viewing it as an aspect of
sociocultural activity. So, I don't look at individual 'growth' as a
freestanding process, independent of (or even 'linked' with) the rest
of the world. I look at it as a process of transformation of
participation IN sociocultural activity. Here's a few references
that directly address the issue of how we can think about individual
development as a process of participation:
Rogoff, B. (1996). Developmental transitions in children's
participation in sociocultural activities. In A. Sameroff & M. Haith
(Eds.), The five to seven year shift: The age of reason and
responsibility (pp. 273-294). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
Rogoff, B. (1997). Evaluating development in the process of
participation: Theory, methods, and practice building on each other.
In E. Amsel & A. Renninger (Eds.), Change and development: Issues of
theory, application, and method (pp. 265-285). Hillsdale, NJ:
Erlbaum.
Rogoff, B., Topping, K., Baker-Sennett, J., & Lacasa, P. (2002).
Mutual contributions of individuals, partners, and institutions:
Planning to remember in Girl Scout cookie sales. Social Development,
11, 266-289.
Barbara
------------------
Here's some stuff not to forward into the discussion, just for you:
I'm sending you these latter papers.
Glad that Amsterdam was good. We missed you at Shep's wingding; it
was quite interesting too. What a guy!
Thanks for the Worth pic!
I'm almooooost done as editor. Have to finish off the last issue in
the next week or two. whew!
Along with getting photo permissions and other tying up for "The
Cultural Nature of Human Development." Oxford got me to finish it
off (although there are many journals yet to read....) by telling
their sales force it was done, even before they told me the reviewers
thought it was ready. So colleagues started telling me they had
ordered it. I figured that was as good a reason as any to decide it
was done.
Love to you and the brood,
Barbara
>Hi-- I have your paper and Jaan's response and a lot of Eugene's writing.
>I was simply curious about how you would respond. Might I forward that
>back into the discussion, or would you prefer just to let it lie
>?
>
>We have had a hectic summer so far, but a nice one. Amsterdam was surprisingly
>stimulating, really surprising. Then we had a real vacation, some with Italian
>friends in the Dolomites, some by ourselves in Slovenia (gorgeous!) and
>a couple of days in Venice, which is always interesting. Now its work work
>and more work plus kids kids and more kids!
>
>I have asked Worth to give you the Bronfenbrennerish pic free-- lets see if
>they will do it.
>
>Are you done as editor?
>
>love to all you guys
>mike
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<div>Hi Mike,</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>I'll edit it slightly for you to forward into the
discussion:</div>
<div>--------------</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Well, there is a contrast between Valsiner's views and mine,
which he and I explored in his paper and my response (<font size="-3"
color="#000000">Rogoff, B. (1992). Three ways to relate person
and culture: Thoughts sparked by Valsiner's review of<u>
Apprenticeship in thinking</u>. <u> Human
Development</u>,<u> 35</u>, 316-320.</font>). </div>
<div><br></div>
<div>I think there's interesting and important distinctions between
Jaan's stance and mine. From Jaan's later writing, I wonder if
he's shifted more in the direction that I've been arguing, but I'm not
sure.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>In terms of Eric's statement about my and Eugene's views,</div>
<div>"because of their separation from wanting to discuss
individual growth:"</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>This does not fit my views. I want to understand individual
development; to do so requires viewing it as an aspect of
sociocultural activity. So, I don't look at individual 'growth'
as a freestanding process, independent of (or even 'linked' with) the
rest of the world. I look at it as a process of transformation
of participation IN sociocultural activity. Here's a few
references that directly address the issue of how we can think about
individual development as a process of participation:</div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote><font size="-3" color="#000000">Rogoff, B. (1996).
Developmental transitions in children's participation in
sociocultural activities. In A. Sameroff & M. Haith
(Eds.),<u> The five to seven year shift: The age of reason and
responsibility</u> (pp. 273-294). Chicago: University of Chicago
Press.</font></blockquote>
<blockquote><font size="-3" color="#000000"><br></font></blockquote>
<blockquote><font size="-3" color="#000000">Rogoff, B. (1997).
Evaluating development in the process of participation: Theory,
methods, and practice building on each other. In E. Amsel &
A. Renninger (Eds.),<u> Change and development: Issues of theory,
application, and method</u> (pp. 265-285). Hillsdale, NJ:
Erlbaum.</font></blockquote>
<blockquote><font size="-3" color="#000000"><br></font></blockquote>
<blockquote><font size="-3" color="#000000">Rogoff, B., Topping, K.,
Baker-Sennett, J., & Lacasa, P. (2002). Mutual contributions
of individuals, partners, and institutions: Planning to remember in
Girl Scout cookie sales. <u> Social Development</u>,<u> 11</u>,
266-289.</font></blockquote>
<blockquote><br></blockquote>
<div>Barbara</div>
<div>------------------</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Here's some stuff not to forward into the discussion, just for
you:</div>
<div>I'm sending you these latter papers.</div>
<div>Glad that Amsterdam was good. We missed you at Shep's
wingding; it was quite interesting too. What a guy!</div>
<div>Thanks for the Worth pic!</div>
<div>I'm almooooost done as editor. Have to finish off the last
issue in the next week or two. whew!</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Along with getting photo permissions and other tying up for
"The Cultural Nature of Human Development." Oxford got
me to finish it off (although there are many journals yet to read....)
by telling their sales force it was done, even before they told me the
reviewers thought it was ready. So colleagues started telling me
they had ordered it. I figured that was as good a reason as any
to decide it was done.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Love to you and the brood,</div>
<div>Barbara</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>Hi-- I have your paper and Jaan's
response and a lot of Eugene's writing.<br>
I was simply curious about how you would respond. Might I forward
that<br>
back into the discussion, or would you prefer just to let it lie<br>
?<br>
<br>
We have had a hectic summer so far, but a nice one. Amsterdam was
surprisingly<br>
stimulating, really surprising. Then we had a real vacation, some with
Italian<br>
friends in the Dolomites, some by ourselves in Slovenia (gorgeous!)
and<br>
a couple of days in Venice, which is always interesting. Now its work
work<br>
and more work plus kids kids and more kids!<br>
<br>
I have asked Worth to give you the Bronfenbrennerish pic free-- lets
see if</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>they will do it.</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>Are you done as editor?</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>love to all you guys</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>mike</blockquote>
<div><br></div>
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