Interesting thoughts from Rachel. I also think that the same (i.e., the
inexpressibility of thoughts in different languages/cultures) is true
across the languages of paradigms (also cultures)--there is no word for
soul in information processing.
Peter
At 10:32 PM 3/1/00 -0500, you wrote:
>Tatiana,
>
>You are absolutely right about "dusha - soul" (Russian) and "mind"
>(English) not being the same thing. Anna Wierzbicka wrote a very
>revealing piece about how our ideas about "person" are socially
>constructed, and points out that the Anglo-American idea of "mind" is not
>only peculiar to English-speakers, but is basically a development of the
>last two centuries. (She also talks about French "ame" and German "seele
>(mistranslation of which she says has created an inaccurate idea of what
>Freud was really saying).
>
> She also quotes extensively the Russian immigrant poet Tsvetayeva, and
>particularly relevant here: "There are things which cannot be thought in
>another language." (Being bilingual/cultural myself, I can give my own
>anecdotal evidence that this is true.)
>
>"The original article is in "American Anthropologist" vol. 91-1989 and
>she later expnanded it into a book chapter in "Semantics, Culture and
>Cognition" (Oxford, 1992) which examines various concepts in European
>languages, how they differ, and the hazards posed by translating
>directly.
>
>One of the less complimentary things I have heard about Americans from
>Russian friends is the puzzled (and sometimes dismissive) statement that
>"They have no dusha" - i.e. Americans have a very different "sense of
>self" than other nationalities. Another interesting phenomenon - to me,
>anyway - is the whole "the brain is a computer" business, which is based
>on the idea that being human is a matter of ratiocination and
>logic-chopping, divorced from emotion and volition. Russian (and classic
>Hebrew/Yiddish usage) has a separate term for this activity of the human
>mind.
>An interesting take on this from a neuropsychologist is Antonio Damasio's
>"Descartes' Error" which examines the hypothesis that emotion is
>necessary for even reasoning to function. (He just published another
>book, which I haven't read yet, but I have it from him via e-mail that
>it's an extension of the earlier one).
>
>Comments from Eugene, Tatiana, other Russian-speakers?
>
>Rachel Heckert
>
>BTW Will you guys please quit flaming each other? I'm just catching up
>after several days away, and the last round of posts has left me
>wondering just what's gotten into everybody.
>
>On Wed, 1 Mar 2000 09:30:47 +0300 "sazonova" <sazon@kursknet.ru> writes:
> > Mike, you are absolutly wright. And its not a coincidence.
> > In my translation I ment "soul' first of all and the word "mind" was
> > introduced specially for xmca-readers.
> > And now I'm struggling with the translation of the expression "body
> > - mind
> > problem" (I want to make a reveiw in my book) which somehow
> > corresponds to
> > what is known in Russian philosophical tradition as the problem of
> > body and
> > soul. When I say "somehow correspods" because English word "mind" is
> > not
> > the same as Russian word "soul". And I recall the XMCA discussion on
> > the
> > differences between Westen and Easten tradition in science.
> > Tatiana
> >
> > ----------
> > > От: Mike Cole <mcole@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > > Кому: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > Тема: Tutchev in English
> > > Дата: 1 марта 2000 г. 3:37
> > >
> > >
> > > Look at the title of this talk! I had just written Eugene about the
> > > problems of translation from russian-english where the word, soul,
> > > is a fine example. And then this appeared on the screen!
> > > mike
> > >
> > > >GARY T. MARX
> > > >Emeritus Professor
> > > >Massachusetts Institute of Technology
> > > >"Windows into the Soul: Surveillance and Society
> > > >in an Age of High Technology"
> > >
> > > sure, its a coincidence.
> > > mike
> >
>
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