I am forwarding this message to the list on behalf of Pedro, who had trouble
last week posting to the group and sent it to me. I am sorry for the time
lapse...I was sick last week and didnīt read my messages for a while...oh
boy!
Renee
>From: "Pedro R. Portes" <prport01@louisville.edu>
>To: emujobs@hotmail.com
>Subject: connotations of language register
>Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 21:34:14 -0500
>
>Hi Renee.
>Again, I can't seem to send my mail out, I tried twice to respond to your
>note. Gremlins
>
>Perhaps you can post this note again for me??....
> >
> >>Hi Renee;
> >>
> >>I'm sorry for the delay in responding to your note below. Here is what i
>think;
> >>
> >>No need to be apprehensive about your view on this. I felt the same way
>when i first read the quote in the last note implying unidirectional
>transmission of culture.
> >>
> >>On the other hand, when I read that the earlier part of that quote ....
>..."person cannot be in any form for which there is no concept", nor
>regarded to be in a state for which there is no prior language/concept, I
>could then see more clearly what the author meant, that a considerable
>chunk of our human consciousness is social and depends on cultural activity
>and products (tools). Hence language, as a socio-bio process may indeed be
>a priori (or co-owned for many of the traits that define us).
> >>
> >>If there is no word for "androgenous" for example, then how do I know
>that I am androgenous, or macho or gay or facist??
> >>
> >>Identity as part of higher level consciousness, and to a great extent
>the
>personality we construct seems to depend on socially constructed categories
>or traits such as intelligence or one's ethnoculture etc.
> >>
> >>But I know what you mean. One can be x and know it without language
>mediation (e.g., hot , cold, hungry but how about "achievement motivated",
>"assertive"??)
> >>
> >>Anyway, it may be that ignorance is bliss then, like with young children
>and animals, vulnerable only to the natural line, and not to
>categorizations such as "retarded", "at-risk" "disabled"...etc
> >>
> >>So maybe the differentiation between the natural and cultural lines
>require attention in this regard.
> >>
> >
> >In any case, I don't think anyone still argues for total linguistic
>determinism anymore than for Skinner's early theory about learning
>language. The role of individual agency just does not allow it.
> >
> >I like the quote that Valsiner chose to express where we are today from
>Hattiangadi, 1987, p172);
> > Languages do bring with them world views, categories of
>thought,....which
>exhibit certain embedded ontologies. but they do not imprison
>us.....because they come not with one world view but with several, which
>compete, and also problems of each world view. When solved, these problems
>might yield not only a modified world view but novel
>concepts..........",,,,,,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>Interesting stuff. Welcome on board.
> >>
> >>Pedro
> >>
> >>---------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >>You wrote, before,
> >>
> >>>>Hi Pedro,
> >>>>
> >>>>You wrote about my comments on language register...
> >>>>
> >>>>>This last note of yours connects somehow with something I am reading
> >in
> >>>>>Valsiner's The Guided Mind...he concludes language "sets us specific
>limits
> >>>>>upon the possible ordering of the subjective experiences of the
>Geist"
> >>>>>(p273)
> >>>>
> >>>>Well, of course I can not understand the point fully from an excerpt,
>so I
> >>>>hope I am not misinterpreting, but this seems to be, well, opposite
>from
> >>>>what I think. I mean, this seems to me kind of suggesting that we are
> >>>>limited in what we can think, maybe even be, by our lanmguage. I was
> >>>>thinking that when people have a language that allows for different
> >>>>registers to indicate interpersonal replationships, they can actually
> >>>>express ideas more full and complex than those denoted by the
>language....in
> >>>>other words, I think people are not limited by the explicit (apparent)
>scope
> >>>>of their particular language.
> >>>>
> >>>>So, Pedro, to really put my cards on the table here, I guess I am
> >>>>disagreeing with this quote. But very tentatively, perhaps you can
>sense
> >>>>this, because I am new to the list and feel kind of shy about that.
>So
> >>>>please help me out here by being patient and gentle with my first XMCA
> >>>>disagreement...:)
> >>>>
> >>>>Renee
>Pedro R. Portes, Ph.D
>Professor of Educational
> & Counseling Psychology
>(502 852-0630/ fax 0629)
>http://www.louisville.edu/~prport01
>
>"Psychosocial strength, ...depends on a total process
>which regulates individual life cycles, the sequence of generations,
>and the structure of society simultaneously: for all three have
>evolved together" p.141 Erik Erikson (1968)
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