------=_NextPart_000_0035_01BEAC80.4788EDA0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="x-user-defined"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> But, Nate, whoever said that teaching is a form of everyday =
conversation?
> The situation calls for some set of special interaction and the =
question
is
> what role should the teacher play within this interaction? Why would =
it
be
> more authentic to tell the students what they need to know?
>
I agree. I think I was probally merging some neo- person solo views of
constructivism with PBL which probally was not entirely fair. An =
approach
to math in which the right answer has been replaced with the right way =
of
thinking in reference to a problem. An assumption of usually a teacher =
or
professor just assuming by sitting at a problem long enough you will =
come
upon a magical thinking process. The problems were more brain teasers =
than
what would be considered PBL.
> It's not the same epistemology at all---knowledge is not treated as
> resident within the learner, but rather as something created within =
the
> joint effort of understanding the problem at hand. Everyone =
(including
the
> faculty member) participates in this process, and all are learning all
the
> time. To construe the faculty member's role as merely observational,
> therefore, would be very misleading.
Again, I was putting PBL into a box with an unfolding view of
constructivism which I have a problem with. This is probally not =
entirely
fair, although for me the Howard Barrows quote and Linda's PBL reference
did resonate that for me to a certain extent
>
> This statement is confusing to me. Did you mean by this, which part =
of
the
> activity is organized by the teacher and which part by the student?
Maybe
> this terminology of "teacher-centered" vs. "student-centered" is =
simply
> getting in the way here. I was using the term to mean a method of
teaching
> in which the student is responsible for deciding what needs to be
learned.
> This is, for me at least, a critical feature of what we have been =
talking
> about. If the situation you describe in your math class was like PBL =
in
> this respect, I guess I fail to understand how the students would =
respond
> to it as a form of "mind game". It's only when the policy is
implemented
> as a facade in which the faculty member has already decided in advance
what
> will be learned and sits back and waits for the students to finally =
"get
> it" that a sense of being manipulated begins to arise.
I think two things are important, first as the thread progressed I was
probally to rash in connecting PBL to constructivist notions about =
learning
that I am not comfortable with. I do not see the connections between my
experience above that similar to PBL anymore. I agree there are some =
major
differences. The class I was referencing to was strongly based on
Piagetian formal operations and other ways of thinking in which it was
assumed if only one would think hard enough they could think in that
fashion. Second, while the thread was on calculus my field is in =
early
education which impacted my history/experience with students. With that
history in mind I'm not entirely comfortable with an approach, as a
totality, in which the student is responsible for deciding what needs to =
be
learned. I see it more dialectical in the sense at times the teacher
decides and other times the student decides. I do not see them mutually
exclusive, and see as in Vygotsky's scientific/everyday concepts an
important relationship between the two.
With that said, PBL for me would not so much be a "curriculum" or way to
approach teaching as a whole, but rather an important type of "activity"
with in the larger educational activity that occurs in the classroom. =
In
this sense, I would have to disagree with Linda's comment that it would
have to be mutually exclusive to teacher directed teaching. I see the
question of what needs to be learned as political and with all its =
negative
sides, I see the political aspect in more or less a positive way. In =
this
sense learning is not totally something the learner decides, but also =
the
teacher, parents, and other outside forces. This tension for both =
teacher
and students should be an area of critical inspection.
However, I feel that approaches like PBL can be a real asset to =
educational
activity for the exact reasons you describe. It can be an activity in =
which
they can have a stronger role in shaping. In general these types of
activities seem to be lacking in education and I believe they can be =
more
useful. I took a Special ed class which through out the semester we had =
a
problem based scenarial that was close to PBL and I found it very =
useful.
We, as a group made decisions about a variety of circustances, did an =
IEP,
and presented in some way to the class as a whole in a diversity of =
ways.
It seemed to meet many of the "objectives" you described with PBL.=20
Nate
I am slow to follow up on this discussion, please don't take it as
> reflecting a lack of interest. I'll be away from the office for a =
while
> and I have disconnected from the XMCA list. I'll try to pick this up
again
> when I get back. (If you want to catch my attention in the interim, =
copy
> your responses to me directly). ---Tim
>
>
>
Nate Schmolze
http://www.geocities.com/~nschmolze/
schmolze who-is-at students.wisc.edu
People with great passions, people who accomplish great deeds,
People who possess strong feelings even people with great minds
and a strong personality, rarely come out of good little boys and girls
L.S. Vygotsky=20
------=_NextPart_000_0035_01BEAC80.4788EDA0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="x-user-defined"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">