Another good point, John! I'd add that in modern times in economically and
power leading societies school became compulsory and universal for all kids.
Also, as John correctly points out not all school in past reminded current
mainstream schools (Ancient Greece is just one example).
I think it is always possible (and useful) to find continuity and
discontinuity in history.
Still the riddle of mainstream schooling is very interesting and practically
important!
Eugene
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John St. Julien [mailto:stjulien@UDel.Edu]
> Sent: Monday, May 31, 1999 4:33 PM
> To: xmca who-is-at weber.ucsd.edu
> Subject: RE: 20th century capitalism?
>
>
>
> A suggestion:
>
> Modern schooling arose with modernity, methinks. Without the state and the
> idea that knowledge (that which enables competent action) is grounded in a
> geometric rationality the school as we know it would be not be
> possible-and
> such institutions did not exist before those organizing principles became
> dominant. (Yes, there were always teachers but I am doubtful about
> assimilating Plato's academy to our own-much less the Mesopatamians.)
>
> Capitalism, Socialism, Syndicalism, Communism, Merchantilism, all
> modernist
> economic models. They are allied with modern armies, the bureau, prisons,
> and schools.
>
> My concern is that we not misidentify the culprit, (by blaming capitalism
> 20th or otherwise) but that in rejecting the questionable cause we not
> reject all difference and hence all possibility of change. It has not
> always been thus. And thus it need not always be so.
>
> There were not always and in all places remarkable similarities
> between the
> punishment of 'crime' and the practices of schooling.
>
> No doubt picking nits, John St. Julien
>
>
>
> >Good point, Mike. For me, the more precise notions/phenomena
> connected with
> >mainstream schooling are alienation and totalitarism which are
> not unique to
> >capitalism. Probably, they are something to do with city-based
> >civilizations.
> >
> >For some people, like me, capitalism offers much less alienation and
> >totalitarism than some other regimes. Thanks for reminding our immigrant
> >status :-) Speaking in the math language, the direction of immigration
> >indicates the gradient of the world misery.
> >
> >What do you think?
> >
> >Eugene
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Mike Cole [mailto:mcole@weber.ucsd.edu]
> >> Sent: Sunday, May 30, 1999 8:46 PM
> >> To: xmca who-is-at weber.ucsd.edu
> >> Subject: 20th century capitalism?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Eugene et al et al et al--
> >>
> >> Why do you link contemporary forms of schooling to capitalism? So far
> >> as I can tell from my amateur studies of schooling in Mesopatamia,
> >> and Egypt circa 2000BC, the forms and contents of education woudl be
> >> highly approved of by 1999 U.S. Congressional committees. I am being
> >> serious. What is new here? And what does it have to do with
> capitalism?
> >> Eugene? Matvey? You have been real "lucky" to live under the
> paradise of
> >> Soviet socialsm.
> >> Chto zdes novovo?
> >> (Vots gnu kheer?)
> >> mike
> >>
>
>