Thanks, Bill, for the useful example. It reminds my Jay Lemke book "Talking
science." I wonder if someone will write similar book "Talking math." One
brief comment that I think can be applied to some Jay's examples.
If you put this example in a non-school context, it seems to be very strange
that adult talks about fractions (1/4) because it doesn't seem to have any
pragmatic value (the hole for the flowers should be filled with dirt -- who
cares that it is 71/4 inches?!). Jay made a very good point in his book
that the school use of science (and we can add math) is very different from
both everyday use and professional use. It is a special type of discourse.
Like Nate, I have a concern that this type of discourse may begin and end at
school.
What do you think?
Eugene
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Barowy <wbarowy who-is-at lesley.edu>
To: xmca who-is-at weber.ucsd.edu <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
Date: Sunday, February 28, 1999 10:15 AM
Subject: Portfolio assessment rejoinder
>At 2:52 PM -0500 2/27/99, Eugene Matusov wrote:
>>
>>What do you mean by saying that school "is in itself an authentic a
context
>>as any" or "schooling has become firmly embedded in our society, with
norms,
>>well established practices, custom artifacts." Sounds like you imply some
>>recent historical change in schooling that makes you believe that it "has
>>become" more "authentic" than before. Is what you mean? If so, what is
>>that historical change? Or, you simple want to emphasize that schools as
>>institutions are not staying outside of the society but are inherently a
>>part of it? If that what you mean, I still don't know how this fact
solves
>>problem with mainstream schools in general and with divorced assessment in
>>specific.
>
>That's what I get for being in a hurry and writing shorthand. I will be
>going 'nomail' status for a while, as I have a lot of other writing that is
>overdue.
>
>As I gain more experience working together with teachers in schools, this
>time with elementary schools, I feel more and more respect for the work
>they are doing. Just anecdotally, I videotaped one fellow coordinating the
>planting of tulip bulbs last fall, that had to be planted 7 inches deep.
>The bottom of the hole he had dug was irregular in depth. He had stretched
>string across the opening of the hole, against which each of the children,
>in turn, could measure the depth of the hole, with a tape measure, before
>planting their tulip bulb. The discourse goes something like this: (all
>paraphrased, because i don't have the tape at home - it is inaccurate)
>
>Teacher: Here is how you measure how deep it is - read the mark on the tape
>next to the string.
>
>Child: Ok
>
>T: What does it read? [the depth is 7 1/4 inches]
>
>C: Seven inches.
>
>T: Seven inches is there [points to mark on the tape] . Is it more or
>less than seven inches?
>
>C: More.
>
>T: What do you think it is?
>
>C: Seven and a half.
>
>T: Seven and a half is halfway between 7 and 8. Where is 7 and a half?
>
>[Child points to approximately the right place]
>
>T: Ok good. So it is about 7 and a quarter inches. Do we need to add
>dirt or take it out of the whole?
>
>C: Add dirt. [several of the children watching chorus the answer]
>
>In the tridadic dialogue the teacher was evaluating the childs performance
>as the child is participating in planting the bulb, mediated by the tape
>measure, string, hole, tulip bulb, etc. It is quite nice to watch. The
>kids were really excited. If I were going to put on my hardcore
>mathematics hat, I'd say 'No, the kids did not learn fractions." because
>after all, the child did not demonstrate any number of the operations
>considered mastery of fractions. If I do not wear that hat, I see a
>situation in which the children participate in a situation in which
>fractions are being used in a practically -- to plant tulips. What each
>child took away from the situation, i.e. what they remember, what new sense
>they make of number, or fraction, remains ambiguous. If we could follow
>the child, and collect bits of these performances, say as snippets on
>videotape, along with artifacts she created, and observations by teachers,
>etc. then we could know a lot more. We could, as an assessment team,
>discuss the collection with a rubric in mind, and decide what kinds of
>activity the child might best benefit from. I think this collection, and
>its use, would be a much richer assessment than what the child might
>produce on a paper test. This collection is the sense of what I mean by a
>portfolio. In the meantime, I'll risk using the shorthand of saying the
>children were learning about fractions. But perhaps they were also
>learning about a lot of other things.
>
>Fresh to activity theory, I make a lot of mistakes, and I appreciate the
>patience and care that this mailing list affords to my writing. I guess
>the idea I had in mind when I wrote about the authenticity of schools
>partially has to do with placing an activity theoretic lens on what I have
>been observing, which does not distinguish between the authenticity of the
>activity in schools and the authenticity of activity in other contexts. It
>also has to do with recognizing that schools have been around for a long,
>long time. I guess I also had in mind the respect I have for the real and
>thoughtful work that a lot of teachers do with children, and the real work
>of administrators, and the tensions that can exist as the performance of
>the child, however measured, is often placed in the activity of others
>responsible for, but not in direct contact with, the child. But I could be
>wrong. Perhaps the word "authentic" is to be used very carefully.
>
>I'll be off the list for a while... thanks for the very interesting
dialogues.
>
>
>Bill Barowy, Associate Professor
>Technology in Education
>Lesley College, 31 Everett Street, Cambridge, MA 02138-2790
>Phone: 617-349-8168 / Fax: 617-349-8169
>http://www.lesley.edu/faculty/wbarowy/Barowy.html
>_______________________
>"One of life's quiet excitements is to stand somewhat apart from yourself
> and watch yourself softly become the author of something beautiful."
>[Norman Maclean in "A river runs through it."]
>