RE: Text and authority in 18th-century China

Luiz Ernesto Merkle (merkle who-is-at csd.uwo.ca)
Fri, 8 May 1998 22:54:23 -0400 (EDT)

On Fri, 8 May 1998, Eugene Matusov wrote:

> > The remark has the objective of
> > making clear for the other members of xmca that it is very easy to fall in
> > the trap of pairing (turbulence-stability) with (paper and pencil -screen
> > and keyboard).

> However, I'm not sure that this dyad covers all possibilities.

Eugene,
You are right and I agree. For me, the most interesting happens
exactly at the transition between two distinct states, in which presence
or lack of turbulence is only an example.
These two different "states" can be two or more cultures, two or
more groups of people or individuals, but it is not only restricted
humans. I would include humans or their collectives in respect to
nonhumans or the environment to which they belong.

> For example,
> when some visitors of innovative children-centered schools comment that
the
> classrooms are chaotic they indicate their own discomfort or a
confusion.

Your example can be extended in the sense that the discomfort
experienced not only by visitors but also by students, teachers,
designers, and managers, among others are crucial in the process of
technology use and development.

> Thus, both the "chaos" and the "structure" are informative in Bateson's
> sense as "a difference that makes the difference." I think they both
have
> the opposition of "indifference" that is not informative and not
noticeable.
> What do you think?

In this narrative, to give voice not only to the technology, what
is traditionally done, but also its actual use is very interesting.. You
mentioned Bateson, I confess he is in my list of priorities. Where does he
wrote about "a difference that makes the difference". May I ask you if you
indicate any reading besides "Steps Towards ...". I see many possible
links with the concept of "otherness" in Bakhtin. Although he considered
(I may be wrong) most of the discourse in the sciences as monologic, I
believe that the work of people like Haraway, Latour, Stengers, and Serres
are illustrating that the constructed artifacts and theories that mediated
our interactions also have voices. I did not read enough of Bakhtin to
state that, but I do not see that distinction as a problem, it only
illustrates the power of his ideas when extended to other dimensions. But
for that the duality of organism and environment has to be eliminated. One
co-evolves with the other. Within the field of Human-Computer
Interaction, Theory of Activity, Distributed Cognition, Situated Action,
and Participatory Design, illustrate this line of thought.
But the community is still in transition, in the sense that
there is no dominant theory for those that are open to see the importance
of them. For those that are indifferent ... :( well that is another tale.

Thanks,
Luiz

_____________________________________________________________

Luiz Ernesto Merkle merkle who-is-at csd.uwo.ca
University of Western Ontario voice: +1 519 858 3375 (home)
Department of Computer Science fax: +1 519 661 3515 (work)
N6A 5B7 London Ontario Canada www.csd.uwo.ca/~merkle