Re: [xmca] Arne Raeithel's "genealogy"

Well, here's my shot at it:
    http://lchc.ucsd.edu/mca/Paper/Genealogy-CHAT.pdf
I have tried to deal with your very valid point, Martin,
that it is more the milieux than individuals, but I have
also just omitted a billion possible arrows so it is
readable. It needs more than one person to do this.

Andy
Martin Packer wrote:
> My question about the map is what the links represent. After all, one
> scientist or philosopher may accept the ideas or another, or react
> against them, or modify them, or misunderstand them. Seems to me each of
> these is a different link. Also, a family tree indicates two parents for
> every progeny, where Arne's genealogy seemingly shows spontaneous
> generation - one figure alone can produce another. And wouldn't we want
> to have a way to map the milieus within which people were working?
> Perhaps something along the lines of the social fields that Bourdieu was
> fond of sketching, but with an added historical dimension.
>
> Martin
>
> On Nov 4, 2009, at 1:44 AM, Andy Blunden wrote:
>
>> To tell the truth Louise, there are a couple of names I don't know and
>> half a dozen I know so little about I don't know why they're included
>> ... or not. Two of the three "outcomes" are people who think humans
>> are a type of computer, so I am not surpised that this genealogy is
>> odd to me. But there is sooooo much out there. So much to read. :(
>>
>> Up till a few weeks ago I thought that starting with Descartes was not
>> justified, but I take that back now. But somehow, Rene's nemesis,
>> Aristotle, needs to be included as well.
>>
>> I don't know anything about Vico, but I find Locke, Berkeley and
>> Leibniz to be rather peripheral to *our* story.
>>
>> Kant certainly deserves an important place, but I think his nemesis,
>> Goethe, may be more important for us.
>>
>> Fichte is actually the inventor of Activity as a philosophical concept
>> (I just learnt that Hegel asked to be buried next to Fichte; like
>> Goethe, very under recognized in the Anglophone world).
>>
>> Hegel is the inventor of Cultural Psychology, so agreed there.
>>
>> I think Stirner and Mach are total diversions from our tradition. But
>> maybe someone can explain to me their role.
>>
>> Wundt and Dilthey are important, though I don't know them well.
>>
>> Feuerbach is a bit of a footnote, but if you're going to have
>> Feuerbach, you've gotta have Moses Hess, author of "Philosophy of the
>> Deed", and inspiration for "Theses on Feuerbach". Of course if you
>> think Frege, Russell and Turing are important to the genealogy of
>> CHAT, then you wouldn't want Hess.
>>
>> MARX, obviously, in CAPS.
>>
>> And I would have lines from a whole bunch of people going to Dewey, as
>> well as Peirce and Mead, but even though Peirce was the elder, I don't
>> think you can give him such priority. Dewey surely was the leader.
>> Arguable.
>>
>> And where are the Gestaltists? Again, not for computer cognition, but
>> there needs to be lines between Goethe and Kant and then to von
>> Ehrenfels, and on to Koehler and Co.
>>
>> Russian linguists like Potebnya, but I don't know where they came from.
>>
>> And these threads are all tied together with LS Vygotsky, yes?
>>
>> Freud has to be mentioned (I forget his sources), with arrows to
>> Luria. And after Vygotsky and Luria you have ANL and thus to present
>> day people,
>>
>> I guess, you can't leave out Piaget, and I don't know Piaget's sources.
>>
>> I know some people rate Merleau-Ponty, but if you're going to give
>> Merleau-Pony a seat, you have to put in Lukacs and Horkheimer. I guess
>> Habermas for discourse ethics, etc.
>>
>> I have no idea why Husserl and Heidegger get a mention. I my humble
>> opinion, as clever as they might be, their impact on Activity Theory
>> has only been negative.
>>
>> I have no idea why Bergson is mentioned: was he a source for Piaget?
>> Don't know why Nietzsche is there. Interesting guy, but so are many
>> others. Why von Uexhill?
>>
>> I agree that Wittgenstein rates a mention, though I don't know how
>> much of a source he has been for us. He is some kind of version of
>> Activity Theory.
>>
>> Frege, Russell and Turing are nothing to do with CHAT. What about
>> anthropologists??
>>
>> Never heard of Maturana.
>>
>> That's my reaction,
>>
>> Andy
>>
>> Louise Hawkins wrote:
>>> Andy,
>>> I remember seeing this diagram a number of years ago, and I found it
>>> useful as a big picture diagram to get my head around the significant
>>> theorist.
>>> Regards
>>> Louise Hawkins
>>> Lecturer - School of Management & Information Systems
>>> Faculty Business & Informatics
>>> Building 19/Room 3.38
>>> Rockhampton Campus
>>> CQUniversity
>>> Ph: +617 4923 2768
>>> Fax: +617 4930 9729
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Andy Blunden [mailto:ablunden@mira.net] Sent: Wednesday, 4
>>> November 2009 01:05 PM
>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>>> Subject: [xmca] Arne Raeithel's "genealogy"
>>> http://lchc.ucsd.edu/MCA/Paper/Theoretical%20connections.jpg
>>> I never found this map very useful to be honest.
>>> Andy
>>> mike cole wrote:
>>>> Have you found Arne Raeithel's "genealogy" of cultural-historical,
>>>> activity theory thinkers from several years back. I am sure it is
>>>> somewhere at lchc.ucsd.edu <http://lchc.ucsd.edu>. Perhaps you (and
>>>> Andy, and.....) could update it with
>>>> more detail. Hegel generated so much that has been "laundered" by
>>>> subsequent "original" thinkers its totally amazing, and ditto Mead
>>>> (whose writings i know far better, although very inadequately).
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>>
>> --
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Andy Blunden http://www.erythrospress.com/
>> Classics in Activity Theory: Hegel, Leontyev, Meshcheryakov, Ilyenkov
>> $20 ea
>>
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>
>

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andy Blunden http://www.erythrospress.com/
Classics in Activity Theory: Hegel, Leontyev, Meshcheryakov, 
Ilyenkov $20 ea
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