[Xmca-l] Re: Andy Blunden on unit of analysis and Huw on cognition

Mon Sep 7 13:04:39 PDT 2020

It was a nicely timed relaxation break. :) I think you can read section 8
without the other aspects. The whole paper summarises much of my insight at
the time, and certainly could help with comprehension. You'd need to go
beyond Vygotsky to understand the conceptions, because of the gaps and what
is not covered etc.

Bye, H.

On Mon, 7 Sep 2020 at 20:56, HENRY SHONERD <hshonerd@gmail.com> wrote:

> Huw,
> Goodness, for such a slow talker, you think and write quickly! I’m slow
> all around. Well, I can talk fast, but without rigour and reference. I take
> your point that spoken language lacks the rigour and referencing of written
> language, but it has more affect. I love books on tape when read by a good
> reader. I enjoy your spoken delivery, because I get to think as you speak.
> I have read only the intro to your draft and it promises to be a very
> interesting read. If dense and difficult. Maybe I will finally understand
> Peirce! Bateson might help me, assuming I understand Bateson. Pask, Bedny
> and Waddington are new to me. Different perspective taking is probably how
> you understand any one person’s perspective? We’ll see.
> Salud
> henry
>
>
> On Sep 7, 2020, at 1:33 PM, Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hello Henry,
>
> The "quibbles" go with the medium, my friend. As I mention by way of
> caveat, for rigour, the texts are a more reliable resource. What you get
> from discussion is what is at the forefront of one's mind, along with
> indications of how we think about things etc. However, you are correct to
> want more from them, it is just that that more is up to you. :)
>
> Yes, feeling can guide too. And one could include perception in cognition
> if one wanted to. You would need to take care about perezhivanie and
> emotion, because it would depend upon whether intellectual functions and
> intentionality have conscious direction over emotions as to whether you can
> base your unit of mind (or similar) on emotional experience. See section 8
> of this draft paper for some pointers:
>
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.academia.edu/42233036/A_Study_of_Active_Orientation_Part_1_A_Perspective_Based_Theory_of_Cognitive_Development__;!!Mih3wA!UJZ_AqxOzD79-HFogcTarq8DQfUQf4dMd81WVI4VpEtQJohTqVkXchJBH0_hc5KFocHk2w$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.academia.edu/42233036/A_Study_of_Active_Orientation_Part_1_A_Perspective_Based_Theory_of_Cognitive_Development__;!!Mih3wA!QWRS8-P01idsykducQeyn281VOQJmQ9tvwdnPorVZ9kxz5Ao7EBnaNDnr-UUmteFA8WGkA$>
>
> Cheerio,
> Huw
>
>
> On Mon, 7 Sep 2020 at 20:05, HENRY SHONERD <hshonerd@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Gente,
>> It’s been more than a week since Anthony linked us to his interview of
>> Andy Blunden. I’ve been doing some slow listening and thinking about it.
>>
>> Hands down the best. through best in Andy’s talk is perizhvanie, both
>> individual and collective. His story about his own moment of empowerment as
>> an engineer was inspiring. But in looking back on his work as a union rep,
>> Andy recalled those who were broken in the work place, sought therapy and
>> finally went on the dole. I assume it is very much the later kind of story
>> that put the fire in the his belly as a lifelong Marxist.
>>
>> A quibble and a modest proposal. I have read more of Andy’s work than
>> that of any other Vygotsky-inspired author, including Vygotsky. Based on my
>> reading of Andy, I think that he has overlooked something in responding to
>> Anthony’s questions: *Project as the unit of analysis for the social
>> sciences.*
>>
>> Another quibble and modest proposal. Huw, in the second interview with
>> Anthony (the one liked below), asserts that “cognition is the conscious
>> guiding aspect of activity”. If we can we substitute “project” for
>> “activity” and recognize that affect is as much of a guide as intellect for
>> any project, then we bring project and perizhvanie together in making sense
>> of the human project.
>>
>> In communty
>> Henry
>>
>>
>>
>> On Aug 29, 2020, at 9:53 AM, Anthony Barra <anthonymbarra@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> "Straddling the Abstract and the Concrete -- with Andy Blunden":
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://youtu.be/ec94eQSSX8E__;!!Mih3wA!UJZ_AqxOzD79-HFogcTarq8DQfUQf4dMd81WVI4VpEtQJohTqVkXchJBH0_hc5KUutX9xQ$ 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://youtu.be/ec94eQSSX8E__;!!Mih3wA!S33cTVIkU7U9v9FUG591iGWUqwJtBKNyXVcYA2nA_QKFGGvaUmFJKVsQ-Ah85IMcOT5oGA$>
>>
>> "Researcher and chronicler Andy Blunden reflects on his own relationship
>> with Vygotsky, his role and contributions to the Vygotsky-sphere, and some
>> developmental landmarks of his own. (Originally published August 28, 2020)
>> Thanks again to Andy.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 26, 2020, Anthony Barra <anthonymbarra@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Huw Lloyd is an interesting guy and a gracious conversation partner.
>>>
>>> He recently helped me close some (of the many) gaps in my knowledge and
>>> understanding here: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/4kspsz__;!!Mih3wA!UJZ_AqxOzD79-HFogcTarq8DQfUQf4dMd81WVI4VpEtQJohTqVkXchJBH0_hc5KcoMVnmQ$ 
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/4kspsz__;!!Mih3wA!S33cTVIkU7U9v9FUG591iGWUqwJtBKNyXVcYA2nA_QKFGGvaUmFJKVsQ-Ah85IOQe1eSLA$>
>>>
>>> Huw's commentary will likely be enjoyable even for fellow experts, who
>>> could compare his answers to what their own might be, as well as my
>>> questions to what they might've asked.
>>>
>>> I do feel a bit weird pushing my stuff here, but at the same time,
>>> enough people have told me in public and private that they enjoy the
>>> videos, so I do like sharing them.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Anthony
>>>
>>> (audio-only here: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/hlspsz__;!!Mih3wA!UJZ_AqxOzD79-HFogcTarq8DQfUQf4dMd81WVI4VpEtQJohTqVkXchJBH0_hc5IXYg8IhA$ 
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/hlspsz__;!!Mih3wA!S33cTVIkU7U9v9FUG591iGWUqwJtBKNyXVcYA2nA_QKFGGvaUmFJKVsQ-Ah85INDZx1Ftw$>
>>> )
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------
>>> Video description and Timestamps:
>>>
>>> Researcher Huw Lloyd, fluent in numerous mental models, is a good
>>> explainer of concepts -- including many I was completely unversed in. A few
>>> threads run through the entirety of this chat: development, self-awareness,
>>> and construing an active orientation to any given situation.
>>>
>>> SECTION 1: Our pathways to Vygotsky
>>>
>>> 0:36 - Reflections on Huw's recent "Vygotsky and Parenting"  (
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/ymqpsz__;!!Mih3wA!UJZ_AqxOzD79-HFogcTarq8DQfUQf4dMd81WVI4VpEtQJohTqVkXchJBH0_hc5LB-yBX3A$ 
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/ymqpsz__;!!Mih3wA!S33cTVIkU7U9v9FUG591iGWUqwJtBKNyXVcYA2nA_QKFGGvaUmFJKVsQ-Ah85IMmjZIOjA$>
>>> )
>>>
>>> 1:45 - Pros and cons of taking scholarly shortcuts
>>>
>>> 6:07 - Huw's arrival to Vygotsky, in part through dissatisfaction
>>>  elsewhere
>>>
>>> SECTION 2: Huw's ideas about Active Orientation
>>>
>>> 16:38 - What is Active Orientation?
>>>
>>> 23:30 - Is Active Orientation a practice? (An exercise in self
>>>  awareness)
>>>
>>> 31:58 - Active Orientation can be documented (microgenesis research of
>>>  Huw's)
>>>
>>> SECTION 3: What is Developmental Education?
>>>
>>> 40:37 - A primer on Davydov and Developmental Education
>>>
>>> 46:07 - Empirical thinking vs. Theoretical thinking
>>>
>>> 50:23 - Grokking the material and the History of ideas
>>>
>>> 52:59 - Problems are Good
>>>
>>> 55:40 - An illustrative lesson of Davydov's
>>>
>>> 1:03:43 - Some key characteristics of developmental education
>>>
>>> 1:07:41 - Crises, construals, and neoformations
>>>
>>> 1:10:20 - The Desert Oak: a developmental TRIZ problem
>>>
>>> SECTION 4: Imagination and Confidence-building
>>>
>>> 1:16:07 - Imagination, flow, and problem-solving
>>>
>>> 1:24:10 - Systems and Design Ideas (TRIZ approach)
>>>
>>> 1:30:22 - Earned, authoritative confidence: Your tempered ideas are
>>>  become Real
>>>
>>> 1:35:20 - The importance of problem-construal or framing
>>>
>>> 1:48:04 - Problem-creating, -solving, and -construing
>>>
>>> 1:53:51 - This is rich, highly concentrated material (Foundational,
>>> generative, "unfoldable" concepts)
>>>
>>> 1:55:27 - Notational vs. developmental education (and epistemology)
>>>
>>> 1:57:10 - Final two questions (adult-development & advice for
>>>  problem-designers)
>>>
>>> 2:06:20 - Complex vs. complicated (and self-regulation and distance
>>>  learning)
>>>
>>> 2:09:46 - An idea for lunch (as promised: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/bvqpsz__;!!Mih3wA!UJZ_AqxOzD79-HFogcTarq8DQfUQf4dMd81WVI4VpEtQJohTqVkXchJBH0_hc5JsqtgMBw$ 
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/bvqpsz__;!!Mih3wA!S33cTVIkU7U9v9FUG591iGWUqwJtBKNyXVcYA2nA_QKFGGvaUmFJKVsQ-Ah85IMu2Pv5mA$>)
>>>
>>>
>>> References:
>>>
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/5vqpsz__;!!Mih3wA!UJZ_AqxOzD79-HFogcTarq8DQfUQf4dMd81WVI4VpEtQJohTqVkXchJBH0_hc5JOOFEziQ$ 
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/5vqpsz__;!!Mih3wA!S33cTVIkU7U9v9FUG591iGWUqwJtBKNyXVcYA2nA_QKFGGvaUmFJKVsQ-Ah85INPU-JiCw$>
>>> - "A Study of Active Orientation" (brief  introduction)
>>>
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/2xqpsz__;!!Mih3wA!UJZ_AqxOzD79-HFogcTarq8DQfUQf4dMd81WVI4VpEtQJohTqVkXchJBH0_hc5LsbzeONA$ 
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/2xqpsz__;!!Mih3wA!S33cTVIkU7U9v9FUG591iGWUqwJtBKNyXVcYA2nA_QKFGGvaUmFJKVsQ-Ah85IPBkikkbw$>
>>> - "TRIZ: a Powerful Methodology for Creative  Problem Solving"
>>>
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/dxqpsz__;!!Mih3wA!UJZ_AqxOzD79-HFogcTarq8DQfUQf4dMd81WVI4VpEtQJohTqVkXchJBH0_hc5KfZ7mQCg$ 
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/dxqpsz__;!!Mih3wA!S33cTVIkU7U9v9FUG591iGWUqwJtBKNyXVcYA2nA_QKFGGvaUmFJKVsQ-Ah85IOUymWXPg$>
>>> - "Going with the Flow: How to Engage Boys (and  Girls) in Their Literacy
>>> Learning"
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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