[Xmca-l] Re: Fwd: [New post] Why generations?

Wed Nov 25 10:47:05 PST 2020

Sorry, I was clueless about the discussion I was stepping into.
Chuck
----
די פאַרייניקטע שטאַטן איז אַ פאָלק פון ימאַגראַנץ
الولايات المتحدة هي أمة من المهاجرين
Los Estados Unidos es una nación de inmigrantes.
The U.S. is a nation of immigrants.
History will judge.
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://bazerman.education.ucsb.edu/__;!!Mih3wA!SK3ZyThsTUgVEQS-KXHuNm8Z9ku_wPaqB6aR5cldwz58Dbcgqx_0QiDOIV0hff4FbJC13w$ 
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Charles_Bazerman__;!!Mih3wA!SK3ZyThsTUgVEQS-KXHuNm8Z9ku_wPaqB6aR5cldwz58Dbcgqx_0QiDOIV0hff7jGcDxsg$ 
https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.isawr.org__;!!Mih3wA!SK3ZyThsTUgVEQS-KXHuNm8Z9ku_wPaqB6aR5cldwz58Dbcgqx_0QiDOIV0hff57IGjUPQ$ 

On Wed, Nov 25, 2020 at 10:36 AM Anthony Barra <anthonymbarra@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Thank you for your clarification, Arturo.
>
> I completely agree that the discussion henceforth should focus on the
> video at hand!
>
> If I may, however:
>
> Andy wrote the following, and yet was called a jerk, insignificant,
> powerless, etc: "I never intended my message to frame Anna's question as
> "adversarial." Of course it was genuine! It is also true that many people
> have been wanting an answer to this question and I meant to applaud Anna
> for posing the question to Yjro. As it happens Yrjo gave an excellent
> answer to the question. He both explained how it has led to unfortunate
> misunderstandings of which he was well aware, and the original, perfectly
> good meaning that the term has.  Obviously I am upset that what I intended
> as praise for Anna's action has been construed in this way. One lives, one
> learns. I am sorry. I hope now that xmca-ers who are interested in Yrjo's
> work will have a look at the video and maybe make a comment on it, and we
> will all have learnt."
>
> Myself, on the other hand?  Read my remarks as uncharitably as you'd like,
> if that's your preference, although that was certainly not my intent -- and
> you can slander me too if that feels good, publicly or privately, though I
> don't see why.
>
> But the insults toward Andy, who gives often and freely and who was simply
> sharing an interesting video discussion, were inaccurate and unnecessary.
>
> Happy Thanksgiving, and happy quarantining to those of us locked down
> during the holidays. 😷
>
> Anthony
>
> P.S. On a better note, I believe Monica Lemos has the full video that
> Charles asked about today.  Perhaps she can share it with any interested
> parties. Thank you.
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 25, 2020 at 1:04 PM Arturo Cortez <cortez.arturo@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi, all.
>>
>> My apologies for sending out what was intended as a private message. One
>> of the things that may not be known is that many people of color and
>> femme-identified people in this group have off channel discussions about
>> the participation in this space. I cannot speak for all, but there is a
>> concern that xmca is hostile and toxic to us. What you saw was an extension
>> of that conversation. Specifically, it was a message from another colleague
>> asking how to provide support on this specific conversation.  My message
>> was a full unfiltered expression of my frustration with how I, as a person
>> of color and junior scholar, feel marginalized in this space.
>>
>> I’d like to invite any discussion from you all about this. But, in all
>> honesty I’d like us to focus back on the discussion between Anna and Dr.
>> Engeström.  Should others want to weigh in or speak with me personally feel
>> free to private message me.
>>
>> Again, my deepest apologies. I hope this conversation will open up new
>> ways for having dialogue in this space. In addition, I hope my inadvertent
>> private message will highlight how some of us feel and have expressed in
>> prior messages on this listserv. While brutally honest, this was an honest
>> mistake; a colleague reminded me.
>>
>> With regards,
>> Arturo
>>
>> Arturo Cortez, PhD
>>
>> Assistant Professor
>>
>> Teacher Learning, Research & Practice
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.colorado.edu/education/academics/graduate-programs/teacher-learning-research-practice__;!!Mih3wA!Wms1MwTQY1U9LeL4PxYaxFf3-zpw7tWFdagjOU1slyzkHdcsAefl9jrrashzVQ5O-PID0w$>
>>
>> Learning Sciences & Human Development
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.colorado.edu/education/academics/graduate-programs/learning-sciences-human-development__;!!Mih3wA!Wms1MwTQY1U9LeL4PxYaxFf3-zpw7tWFdagjOU1slyzkHdcsAefl9jrrashzVQ6mruWNzg$>
>>
>> School of Education | UCB 249 | Room 314
>>
>> University of Colorado Boulder
>>
>> Ute, Cheyenne, and Arapaho Territories
>>
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>>
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>>
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>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.colorado.edu/education__;!!Mih3wA!Wms1MwTQY1U9LeL4PxYaxFf3-zpw7tWFdagjOU1slyzkHdcsAefl9jrrashzVQ52IN0QVw$>
>>
>>
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>> .
>>
>> On Nov 25, 2020, at 09:23, Arturo Cortez <cortez.arturo@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> For real!! Those fools ain’t worth your brilliance. But, real talk: did
>> Anthony Barra say that I misunderstood because of my language and culture?
>> That s**t is racist, if so.
>>
>> You doing alright? I need to figure out how to chill with you one day.
>> Wish we lived closer, but I know we’ll figure it out.
>>
>> Lots of love to you and your family. Thank you for checking in. And let’s
>> take a break from these jerks. I needed to make sure that student didn’t
>> get framed in a messed up way and I assumed there would be blowback. If
>> these fools had any power I’d be concerned. While their insignificance
>> annoys me, it annoys me further that they think anything they say matters
>> beyond their bubble and to that matter: I don’t think it is possible to
>> engage them in any reflection as it is impossible for them to apologize. So
>> check minus to them.
>>
>> Love you!!!
>>
>> Talk soon,
>> Arturo
>>
>> Arturo Cortez, PhD
>>
>> Assistant Professor
>>
>> Teacher Learning, Research & Practice
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.colorado.edu/education/academics/graduate-programs/teacher-learning-research-practice__;!!Mih3wA!Wms1MwTQY1U9LeL4PxYaxFf3-zpw7tWFdagjOU1slyzkHdcsAefl9jrrashzVQ5O-PID0w$>
>>
>> Learning Sciences & Human Development
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.colorado.edu/education/academics/graduate-programs/learning-sciences-human-development__;!!Mih3wA!Wms1MwTQY1U9LeL4PxYaxFf3-zpw7tWFdagjOU1slyzkHdcsAefl9jrrashzVQ6mruWNzg$>
>>
>> School of Education | UCB 249 | Room 314
>>
>> University of Colorado Boulder
>>
>> Ute, Cheyenne, and Arapaho Territories
>>
>> 415.261.3155 (mobile)
>>
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://cuboulder.zoom.us/my/arturocortez__;!!Mih3wA!SK3ZyThsTUgVEQS-KXHuNm8Z9ku_wPaqB6aR5cldwz58Dbcgqx_0QiDOIV0hff7t3lDs_A$ 
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>>
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>>
>>
>> Sign up for office hours here
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>> .
>>
>> On Nov 24, 2020, at 19:34, Anthony Barra <anthonymbarra@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> You should not be upset, Andy, as there was nothing negative in the way
>> you introduced that video.
>>
>> Sometimes, in cross-cultural settings, a phrase or two can translate in
>> unexpected ways.  But that's a small price to pay, compared to the much
>> larger benefits of an international community.
>>
>> Happily, everyone is back on the same page now.  So keep your head high.
>>
>> Anthony
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 7:11 PM Andy Blunden <andyb@marxists.org> wrote:
>>
>>> I never intended my message to frame Anna's question as "adversarial."
>>> Of course it was genuine! It is also true that many people have been
>>> wanting an answer to this question and I meant to applaud Anna for posing
>>> the question to Yjro. As it happens Yrjo gave an excellent answer to the
>>> question. He both explained how it has led to unfortunate misunderstandings
>>> of which he was well aware, and the original, perfectly good meaning that
>>> the term has.
>>>
>>> Obviously I am upset that what I intended as praise for Anna's action
>>> has been construed in this way. One lives, one learns. I am sorry. I hope
>>> now that xmca-ers who are interested in Yrjo's work will have a look at the
>>> video and maybe make a comment on it, and we will all have learnt.
>>>
>>> andy
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *Andy Blunden*
>>> Hegel for Social Movements
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.haymarketbooks.org/books/1484-hegel-for-social-movements__;!!Mih3wA!RUhJ0gxm82ec4ykziv0nkRnS3EwZY1riRVSIhrI3mWyIxNWiREL64wyOkWb1XJDTITTRwg$>
>>> Home Page
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!RUhJ0gxm82ec4ykziv0nkRnS3EwZY1riRVSIhrI3mWyIxNWiREL64wyOkWb1XJAOjgOt3Q$>
>>> On 25/11/2020 4:06 am, ARTURO CORTEZ wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi, Andy.
>>>
>>> Thanks for bringing this video to the attention of xmca. As a
>>> co-designer and participant in the course, I would frame this differently.
>>> Anna asked a genuine question that she (and others) had and was eager to
>>> learn more about 4th Gen from an expert, Dr. Engeström, who was very
>>> responsive. The class was a very generative space and I don’t recall an
>>> adversarial or confrontational instance (and I’ve analyzed the videos)
>>> during Yrjo’s talk or others. As someone who was there, I thought it was
>>> important to share this context.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Arturo
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 5:26 PM Andy Blunden <andyb@marxists.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> See the latest video clip on culturalpraxis.net
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://culturalpraxis.net__;!!Mih3wA!SMBCK4NdVc3wTnUqfXOE8xrQsFqmqjSiktLA1a_H3E_DwVPtzlpA_rLZSzR7oOmvGi5Uyw$>
>>>> - a young researcher puts Yrjo on the spot with the question everyone has
>>>> been asking: What's this with the "fourth generation"?
>>>> Andy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Victoria posted: "
>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XijCqxkpHLU&feature=youtu.be__;!!Mih3wA!SK3ZyThsTUgVEQS-KXHuNm8Z9ku_wPaqB6aR5cldwz58Dbcgqx_0QiDOIV0hff7qkoYgyA$  In this video
>>>> Professor Yrjö Engeström responds to Anna Zarkh's question on the reasons
>>>> to use the term generations to approach cultural-historical activity theory
>>>> (CHAT). The piece is"
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XijCqxkpHLU&feature=youtu.beInthisvideoProfessorYrj**AEngestr**AmrespondstoAnnaZarkh'squestiononthereasonstousethetermgenerationstoapproachcultural-historicalactivitytheory(CHAT).Thepieceis__;w7bDtg!!Mih3wA!W1RJpHlsXok4YNCf29WtYsjZIG0IOLfSBSgJN3hYfXPuhJ6MS6SS3QvdLBGeBuL9YfKbxA$>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> New post on *Cultural Praxis*
>>>>
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://culturalpraxis.net/wordpress1/?author=7__;!!Mih3wA!W1RJpHlsXok4YNCf29WtYsjZIG0IOLfSBSgJN3hYfXPuhJ6MS6SS3QvdLBGeBuK2MU7hXw$> Why
>>>> generations?
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://culturalpraxis.net/wordpress1/2020/11/23/why-generations/__;!!Mih3wA!W1RJpHlsXok4YNCf29WtYsjZIG0IOLfSBSgJN3hYfXPuhJ6MS6SS3QvdLBGeBuIMXJWMOQ$> by
>>>> Victoria
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://culturalpraxis.net/wordpress1/?author=7__;!!Mih3wA!W1RJpHlsXok4YNCf29WtYsjZIG0IOLfSBSgJN3hYfXPuhJ6MS6SS3QvdLBGeBuK2MU7hXw$>
>>>>
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XijCqxkpHLU&feature=youtu.be__;!!Mih3wA!W1RJpHlsXok4YNCf29WtYsjZIG0IOLfSBSgJN3hYfXPuhJ6MS6SS3QvdLBGeBuJIjNycAA$>
>>>>
>>>> In this video Professor Yrjö Engeström responds to Anna Zarkh's
>>>> question on the reasons to use the term generations to approach
>>>> cultural-historical activity theory (CHAT). The piece is an excerpt from
>>>> the seminar "From CHAT to critical CHAT, organized by Professor Kris
>>>> Gutierrez and Edward Rivero at University of California Berkeley (Spring
>>>> 2020). The course was attended by roughly 50 scholars from various parts of
>>>> the US and Europe.
>>>>
>>>> Go to our Youtube Library
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7vDvqVINUOM831GgAGwGlA/playlists__;!!Mih3wA!W1RJpHlsXok4YNCf29WtYsjZIG0IOLfSBSgJN3hYfXPuhJ6MS6SS3QvdLBGeBuLngjzk5Q$> for
>>>> longer interviews and presentations by distinguished CHAT scholars and
>>>> educators.
>>>> *Victoria
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://culturalpraxis.net/wordpress1/?author=7__;!!Mih3wA!W1RJpHlsXok4YNCf29WtYsjZIG0IOLfSBSgJN3hYfXPuhJ6MS6SS3QvdLBGeBuK2MU7hXw$>*
>>>> | November 23, 2020 at 6:16 pm | Categories: Video Series: Join the
>>>> discussion
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://culturalpraxis.net/wordpress1/?taxonomy=category&term=video-series-join-the-discussion__;!!Mih3wA!W1RJpHlsXok4YNCf29WtYsjZIG0IOLfSBSgJN3hYfXPuhJ6MS6SS3QvdLBGeBuI9hZz0OQ$>
>>>> | URL: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://culturalpraxis.net/wordpress1/?p=727__;!!Mih3wA!SK3ZyThsTUgVEQS-KXHuNm8Z9ku_wPaqB6aR5cldwz58Dbcgqx_0QiDOIV0hff4v6uUIQQ$ 
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://culturalpraxis.net/wordpress1/?p=727__;!!Mih3wA!W1RJpHlsXok4YNCf29WtYsjZIG0IOLfSBSgJN3hYfXPuhJ6MS6SS3QvdLBGeBuLQY-RWIw$>
>>>>
>>>> Comment
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://culturalpraxis.net/wordpress1/2020/11/23/why-generations/*respond__;Iw!!Mih3wA!W1RJpHlsXok4YNCf29WtYsjZIG0IOLfSBSgJN3hYfXPuhJ6MS6SS3QvdLBGeBuJuYc3M8Q$>
>>>>    See all comments
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://culturalpraxis.net/wordpress1/2020/11/23/why-generations/*comments__;Iw!!Mih3wA!W1RJpHlsXok4YNCf29WtYsjZIG0IOLfSBSgJN3hYfXPuhJ6MS6SS3QvdLBGeBuI3ZdXPxg$>
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