[Xmca-l] Re: "sociocultural psychology" ?
Andy Blunden
andyb@marxists.org
Tue May 19 18:39:00 PDT 2020
Of course, Annalisa, I agree that Science is a moral
practice, but that is not what is at issue here.
Two issues concern me with what you have said: (1) the
question of "who decides?" and (2) the quantification of
development as in "more evolved" bringing with it the
implication of moral value attached to development.
(1) The discovery of the "social construction of reality"
was an achievement of the Left, the progressives, with
people like the Critical Psychologists, the theorists of
postmodernism and post-structural feminists in the 1970s an
80s, who exposed how taken-for-granted facts along with the
truths of Science were on closer inspection ideological
products of dominant social groups. Of course, how reality
is /seen /is an inseparable part of how reality /is/. This
insight led to a range of powerful theoretical and practical
critiques of all aspects of society. Feminists offered an
alternative way of interpreting reality as a powerful lever
for changing that reality by undermining patriarchal
structures and certainties. So far so good. But today, in
2020, it is not progressives who are asking "who decides?"
and calling into question the very idea of truth and fact:
it is Donald Trump and Rudi Giuliani. Quite honestly, this
outcome was always implicit in the postmodern and
poststructuralist critique. Or, could I say: "Donald Trump
is a more evolved form of Judith Butler" if I thought in
those terms, which I don't.
Hegel takes up this problem with the maxim: "Everything is
both immediate and mediated." Yes, social interests dominant
in a certain social domain by definition determine what is
true in that domain (though remember, every social domain is
finite and has its boundaries). But that is not just by
saying something about an/independently existing/ reality
which can be subject to any number of /alternative/
representations (as Kant would have it), but rather the
dominant social interests /determine that reality itself/.
They do that both /immediately /and /through the ideal
representation/ of that reality which is *part of that
reality*. You can't "decide" by a purely discursive moves -
you have to /change /that reality. You do that with the
weapons of both theoretical and practical critique.
What this means is that you can study the documents
(assuming you weren't personally present) of some past
dispute and see with your own eyes how and why some people
formulated new word meanings, and began to use these new
word meaning(s) in their own communication, and thereby
facilitated others from using this word meaning, and the
relevant concepts, in their work, and so on.
(2) As perhaps I have illustrated in my example above that
there is no implication of "higher" in development. In my
own education, it was Sylvia Scribner's "Uses of History"
(1985) which explained this to me. "Higher" implies
comparison and comparison in turn implies
/interchangeability/. For example, if I was considering
whether to emigrate to the US or France, I might consider
public safety as a metric and decide that France was
superior to the US and make my decision accordingly. Or, I
might consider job availability for an English-speaking
monoglot like me as the metric, and decide that the US was
superior to France. But to decide that the US is superior to
France or vice versa without the choice and the relevant
metric is the moral judgment which neither you nor I find
acceptable. They're just different.
Understanding word meanings and concepts entails an analysis
of *both *how the word is used in the field in question, and
the history as to how it came to be so. Using the concept of
"germ cell," I can work my way back and forth through an
etymological field, forensically, like a detective, until I
can connect the particular use of the word which emerged as
a germ cell at some earlier time, in some situation where
the implication of choosing that word meaning was abundantly
clear to all, which allows me to see *why* someone felt the
need (now forgotten) to introduce the word meaning and what
it's absence would mean here and now, where it is already
taken for granted.
My apologies for the unacceptably long message, which is
much against my own mores, but I don't know how to clarify
these issues more succinctly.
Andy
------------------------------------------------------------
*Andy Blunden*
Hegel for Social Movements <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!Mih3wA!TLrWUBWNIMJR-d4Rr1HJ5aNy8a9feC14rEE8Y9KK_yg-3NYAubzMD2iHXcVRpSlw_w_wdw$ >
Home Page <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!TLrWUBWNIMJR-d4Rr1HJ5aNy8a9feC14rEE8Y9KK_yg-3NYAubzMD2iHXcVRpSkhfCnwZw$ >
On 20/05/2020 3:51 am, Annalisa Aguilar wrote:
> Hi Andy,
>
> I suppose the issue about being on a branch of evolution
> has more to do with who decides what the branch is. Is it
> time? or is it topical? or is it based upon the interlocutors?
>
> If we say one word usage is more "evolved" than another, I
> suppose I am just pushing back on that because who decides
> what is more evolved?
>
> Forgive me, but can we ever say that if something is more
> "evolved" it is actually better? What do we actually mean
> when we say something is evolved?
>
> What if one term lasts over a longer arc of time than
> another usage? It seems if we use the evolution rubric, it
> would be considered more "fit" than the one that is
> changing over the same period of time.
>
> I do find it helpful that you to bring up the germ cell
> and how that concept pertains to analysis. That makes a
> lot of sense to me. I'm glad to know that to assign the
> parentheses does entail an ideological move, and that that
> can't be escaped. As long as we know what the ideology is,
> there is transparency in our analysis.
>
> I do think moral evaluations are worth including on all
> discussions, not necessarily to forbid discussions or
> scientific pursuits, but to use as landmarks to keep our
> bearings. Scientific concepts have a way of not being
> inclusive of contexts (i.e., lived experiences) or being
> grounded, right?
>
> Perhaps this is what made Vygotsky such a humane and
> compassionate scientific thinker is that he could
> understand how scientific concepts can be abusive tools
> for oppression. Anchoring them in lived experience shows
> their validity. Would this be a fair statement to you, Andy?
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Annalisa
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> on behalf of Andy
> Blunden <andyb@marxists.org>
> *Sent:* Sunday, May 17, 2020 7:23 PM
> *To:* xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: "sociocultural psychology" ?
>
> * [EXTERNAL]*
>
> **
>
> Annalisa, "where does history start"? Effectively there is
> no starting point, and the choosing of a starting point is
> always an ideological move. Foucault does this to great
> effect. Ilyenkov deals with this in his book "The Abstract
> and Concrete in Marx's Capital" and explains the need for
> what he calls the "logical-historical method." To short
> circuit the complexities of reading Ilyenkov, in CHAT we
> rely on the identification of the unit of analysis or
> "germ cell" to anchor our historical investigation.
>
>
> "Sociogenesis" is just Latin for "social development," the
> word I used. But if you are going to ascribe a moral value
> to "evolution" and then reject the concept on that basis,
> you'd better also reject "development" and all the
> "geneses" and evolution of species by natural selection
> and all modern biology while you are at it. Alternatively,
> you could choose *not* to ascribe moral values to
> scientific concepts, then the whole of science is open to you.
>
>
> Andy
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> *Andy Blunden*
> Hegel for Social Movements
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!Mih3wA!VTGuGy4gvXj-8N5E9YCj2IevXlVoBhK7UBQ37lx10IRWhO4lMbcXmdD-gzoCEFYW2qyYWA$>
> Home Page
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!VTGuGy4gvXj-8N5E9YCj2IevXlVoBhK7UBQ37lx10IRWhO4lMbcXmdD-gzoCEFZ5oaoZdg$>
>
> On 18/05/2020 3:25 am, Annalisa Aguilar wrote:
>> Hi Andy (& VO's),
>>
>> I think that that was my point, that we cannot capture
>> everything in the word to describe the theory. And that
>> is because of the limit of our language.
>>
>> Even where genesis actually is, where something starts
>> can be difficult to pinpoint. I mean where does History
>> actually start?
>>
>> These words that you mention phylogenesis, ethnogenesis,
>> ontogenesis, are words that are like brackets of a pair
>> of parentheses. Who decides where to put them? (And why
>> not sociogenesis?)
>>
>> I'm not sure it's correct to say the choice of a word
>> locates the user on a branch of a cultural evolutionary
>> tree, because then that starts to mean that one speaker
>> is more evolved than another based on the use of a word.
>>
>> It might be better to say that the choice of a word
>> locates the user to a particular context. I could live
>> with that.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Annalisa
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
>> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> on behalf of
>> Andy Blunden <andyb@marxists.org> <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>
>> *Sent:* Saturday, May 16, 2020 9:27 PM
>> *To:* xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
>> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: "sociocultural psychology" ?
>>
>> * [EXTERNAL]*
>>
>> You're never going to succeed in formally capturing the
>> full scope of the theory in a word, Annalisa.
>> "socioculturahistoricalinguapparatical activity theory"
>> still leave out biology and Darwin, which is a part of
>> our theory, too.
>>
>>
>> It is sometimes said that human development is the
>> coincidence of *four* processes: *phylogenesis *(i.e.,
>> evolution of the species), cultural development
>> (*ethnogenesis*, the development of technology *and
>> *language), *social development* (one and the same
>> culture has different classes and political groups side
>> by side) and *ontogenesis *(even twins can grow up very
>> differently according to the experiences
>> (/perezhivaniya/) they go through). I tried to describe
>> this in:
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/works/ontogenesis.htm__;!!Mih3wA!TLrWUBWNIMJR-d4Rr1HJ5aNy8a9feC14rEE8Y9KK_yg-3NYAubzMD2iHXcVRpSlCvpjd8w$
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/works/ontogenesis.htm__;!!Mih3wA!Vn9T05o4yQ8JmcN8k0Rcq65ZDZvXCxCkPwjrS8BQz_aRy-V218xJbfgO-7EiQaXB3YgOwg$>
>>
>>
>> But if you look into the history of a word what you will
>> inevitably find is that at some point (in time and social
>> space) there was some dispute, and this dispute was
>> either (1) resolved by both parties agreeing and marking
>> this agreement by the coining of a new word meaning or
>> the dropping of a word meaning altogether, or (2) there
>> is a split and one or both sides of the split adopt a
>> word meaning which distinguishes them from the other side
>> (structuralism's favourite trope) or variations on the
>> above scenarios.
>>
>>
>> So the choice of a word tends to locate the user on a
>> branch in the cultural evolutionary tree.
>>
>>
>> Andy
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> *Andy Blunden*
>> Hegel for Social Movements
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!Mih3wA!Vn9T05o4yQ8JmcN8k0Rcq65ZDZvXCxCkPwjrS8BQz_aRy-V218xJbfgO-7EiQaXzee78rQ$>
>> Home Page
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!Vn9T05o4yQ8JmcN8k0Rcq65ZDZvXCxCkPwjrS8BQz_aRy-V218xJbfgO-7EiQaXY03UVbw$>
>>
>> On 17/05/2020 11:56 am, Annalisa Aguilar wrote:
>>> David K & VO's
>>>
>>> What pray-tell is an anthropologue?
>>>
>>> I am divided (pun intended) about saying that
>>> sociocultural = social + culture, when they are
>>> intertwined holistically. To me, sociocultural points to
>>> a space in between, or perhaps better said to a context
>>> of interactions between individuals (who form a society)
>>> that are easily accepted among them and practiced over time.
>>>
>>> We can conceptually parse out the social and the
>>> cultural, but don't we do that because of the words and
>>> not because of the ostensible reality going on
>>> interactionally? Can we always understand something by
>>> dissecting it into parts?
>>>
>>> Again, this seems to be the limit of language, not of
>>> the conceptual context or content.
>>>
>>> In a sense to use the term "sociocultural" is to grab
>>> the tail of the tiger. The tail of the tiger is still
>>> the tiger, but perhaps a more manageable one than to
>>> grab its head.
>>>
>>> Perhaps this is why Vygotskians just call themselves
>>> Vygotskians to align themselves with the source of the
>>> first theories rather than to later conceptions and
>>> other developments (i.e. Leontiev, etc). Just thinking
>>> out loud.
>>>
>>> Another argument is that if we want to be all inclusive,
>>> then we have to include tool-use, as it's not the
>>> social, the culture, and the history, but also the
>>> language and tools used. I realize some practitioners
>>> would say that language is no different than a tool, but
>>> I feel language is different, even though it may have a
>>> similar cognitive response in the mind as would using a
>>> tool.
>>>
>>> Activity suggests tool use, though not always. Consider
>>> dance, or storytelling, or going for a walk.
>>>
>>> How about: socioculturahistoricalinguapparatical
>>> activity theory???
>>>
>>> Yes! I am writing this a little tongue in cheek. I hope
>>> you do not mind.
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>>
>>> Annalsia
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> on behalf of
>>> David Kellogg <dkellogg60@gmail.com>
>>> <mailto:dkellogg60@gmail.com>
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, May 16, 2020 6:14 PM
>>> *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>>> <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: "sociocultural psychology" ?
>>>
>>> *[EXTERNAL]*
>>>
>>> It's a very domain-specific umbrella, like those
>>> cane-brollies that go with a bowler. "Sociocultural" is
>>> strongly preferred used in second language acquisition,
>>> thanks to the influence of Merrill Swain, Jim Lantolf
>>> and Matthew Poehner; I have never seen "cultural
>>> historical" used in this literature. But
>>> "cultural-historical" is similarly preferred in
>>> psychology and anthropology, thanks to the influence of
>>> J.V. Wertsch, Mike Cole, Martin Packer and Andy
>>> Blunden; that's really why we are having this discussion
>>> on what "socio-cultural" might mean on a list largely
>>> populated by roving psychologists and nomadic
>>> anthropologues.
>>>
>>> Interestingly, the Francophones prefer
>>> "historico-cultural", using the argument that you can
>>> understand the process without the product but not the
>>> product without the process. I stopped using
>>> "sociocultural" because I thought it was redundant, but
>>> now I am really not sure of this: it seems to me that
>>> the relationship is a similar one--you can study society
>>> as process without studying its cultural product (e.g.
>>> as demographics, economics, statistics) but you can't
>>> really study culture without some understanding of the
>>> process of its formation.
>>>
>>> There was a similar disagreement in systemic functional
>>> linguistics between Halliday and Jim Martin over the
>>> term "socio-semiotic". Martin said that it was
>>> redundant, because there couldn't be any semiotic
>>> without society. Halliday rather flippantly replied that
>>> ants had a society without a semiotics, and at the time
>>> it seemed to me that this was a non sequitur, first of
>>> all because ants don't really have a society in
>>> our sense (precisely because there is no such thing as
>>> an ant history separate from phylogenesis on the one
>>> hand and ontogenesis on the other) and secondly because
>>> ants most definitely do have a semiotics, albeit one
>>> based on chemistry and not perception as ours is.
>>>
>>> It seems to me, in retrospect, that the relationship
>>> between the semiotic and the social is much more like
>>> the relationship between the social and the biological,
>>> or even the biological and the chemical. The semiotic is
>>> a certain level of organization that the social has, but
>>> there are other levels, just as biology is a certain
>>> kind of chemical organization which does not exclude
>>> other, nonbiological ways organizing chemicals,
>>> and chemistry is a kind of physical organization which
>>> doesn't exclude sub-chemical organizations.
>>>
>>> Perhaps we can think of the relationship between culture
>>> and society in the same way?
>>>
>>> David Kellogg
>>> Sangmyung University
>>>
>>> New Article: Ruqaiya Hasan, in memoriam: A manual and a
>>> manifesto.
>>> Outlines, Spring 2020
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238/167607__;!!Mih3wA!TLrWUBWNIMJR-d4Rr1HJ5aNy8a9feC14rEE8Y9KK_yg-3NYAubzMD2iHXcVRpSklIJuR3Q$
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238/167607__;!!Mih3wA!QwnjuGWv1M4ZX6kMNV7A1nO46fLjKXBSeMFcdiKYZQb3gv2FV78Tq_DhJK9vM5IH1niRwQ$>
>>>
>>> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: /L.S. Vygotsky's
>>> Pedological Works/ /Volume One: Foundations of Pedology/"
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!TLrWUBWNIMJR-d4Rr1HJ5aNy8a9feC14rEE8Y9KK_yg-3NYAubzMD2iHXcVRpSnyv5vLjw$
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!QwnjuGWv1M4ZX6kMNV7A1nO46fLjKXBSeMFcdiKYZQb3gv2FV78Tq_DhJK9vM5JySLOtJA$>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, May 17, 2020 at 8:28 AM David H Kirshner
>>> <dkirsh@lsu.edu <mailto:dkirsh@lsu.edu>> wrote:
>>>
>>> 4. As an umbrella term for any sociogenetic approach.
>>>
>>> Isn’t that its current usage?
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>> *From:*xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>> *On Behalf
>>> Of *Annalisa Aguilar
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, May 16, 2020 3:31 PM
>>> *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>>> <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
>>> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: "sociocultural psychology" ?
>>>
>>> Hi Andy, and VO's,
>>>
>>> What fascinates me is that the word "sociocultural"
>>> has a lot of different facets in terms of how the
>>> word was used in different contexts. It seems there
>>> are three I've been able to pick out.
>>>
>>> 1. as a derisive term in early Soviet history.
>>> 2. as an empowering term from Latin American voices.
>>> 3. as a relaxed term of the Marxist "brand" at the
>>> height of the Cold War in the US.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure if I've done justice in the manner that
>>> I've represented that, but it is a well-intended
>>> attempt. Are there others?
>>>
>>> What I don't understand fully is whether there must
>>> be ONE explanation how the term came to be, or ONE
>>> definition of what it actually means. Can't it be
>>> polysemantic? polycontextual?
>>>
>>> If that is what's happening, then it makes sense
>>> that there would be an ongoing controversy about
>>> which one is the right definition or reason for not
>>> using it, depending on the interlocutor.
>>>
>>> If we are to talk about who used the term first, and
>>> that's where the value/authority holds, then all
>>> that tells us is that for those who value who used
>>> the term first. that's where the authority is.
>>>
>>> If we talk about the emotional attachment of the
>>> word as it is used in context and that's where the
>>> value/authority holds, then that tells us for those
>>> who value the most personal attachment to the word,
>>> that's where the authority is.
>>>
>>> If we talk about how the word was used functionally,
>>> where the value/authority holds in its efficacy,
>>> then all that tells is that for those who value
>>> whether the word works or not, that's where the
>>> authority is.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure one can put any of one these over the
>>> other two (or if there are more than that, if there
>>> are more). All we can say I suppose is whether in a
>>> particular context is the word "sociocultural"
>>> appropriate or not?
>>>
>>> I do find that this debate has begun to have its own
>>> life, this debate over the use of a word. I've begun
>>> doubt it will ever cease.
>>>
>>> One day the discussion will be how one used to
>>> debate about the term, first everyone was this way
>>> about the word, than they were that way about the
>>> word, and many large camps were formed in XXXX year
>>> to say why the word should not be used, but then X
>>> years later other large camps formed to say it is
>>> fine to use the word. I suppose it will only be when
>>> the debate ceases will it come to pass that the
>>> debate will be forgotten. But will that cessation
>>> solidify the use or non-use of the word?
>>>
>>> I understand the reasons for saying "cultural
>>> psychology." But for those swimming in a culture
>>> where behaviorism is considered the soul of
>>> psychology, adding "cultural" becomes a sad
>>> necessity. Even then, that necessity only depends
>>> upon how one sees culture, as either as an additive,
>>> an integral ingredient of psychology, or its basis.
>>> I believe I've read on the list that one should be
>>> able to say "psychology" and just *know* that it
>>> includes culture. I don't think we are there yet.
>>>
>>> Then that would be my argument to use
>>> "sociocultural" to understand it includes history.
>>> CHAT is sort of a defensive term (well, it is an
>>> acronym). But then... it leaves out "social" and is
>>> that OK? We certainly should not say sociocultural
>>> historical activity theory because that acronym is
>>> very unfulfilling. What is nice about CHAT though is
>>> that to chat is an activity of speech, and there is
>>> a implied meaning that also pertains to Vygotskian
>>> theories, and therefore meaningful.
>>>
>>> In a sense, it's not the meaning that we are arguing
>>> over, but how the limitations of our particular
>>> language fails to convey a meaning with such
>>> precision that it thereby to parses away any other
>>> inappropriate meaning. I'm just not sure that the
>>> project is one that can be achieved successfully,
>>> even if it succeeds for an interim.
>>>
>>> At the same time I can see why story of the elephant
>>> and the blind men also have a part to play in our
>>> understandings and assumptions.
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>>
>>> Annalisa
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> *From:*xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>> on behalf
>>> of Andy Blunden <andyb@marxists.org
>>> <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>>
>>> *Sent:* Friday, May 15, 2020 7:49 PM
>>> *To:* xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>> <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
>>> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: "sociocultural psychology" ?
>>>
>>> * [EXTERNAL]*
>>>
>>> Annalisa, I have only been talking and writing about
>>> Vygotsky and co. since about 2000 and have been
>>> openly Marxist since the 1960s (indeed, Vygotsky is
>>> core to how I understand Marx) and never had any
>>> reason not to be. But it is true that when Mike
>>> first went to Moscow, it was at the height of the
>>> Cold War, and when he and others first brought
>>> Vygotsky's ideas to the USA, there was a lot of
>>> resistance to their Marxist content. I think the
>>> naming issue only arose as Vygotsky and the others
>>> began to build a real following. The issues with the
>>> choice of name change over the years, as you say. I
>>> prefer" CHAT," but sometimes I use "Cultural
>>> Psychology" and sometimes I use "Activity Theory"
>>> depending on the context.
>>>
>>> Andy
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> *Andy Blunden*
>>> Hegel for Social Movements
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fbrill.com*2Fview*2Ftitle*2F54574__*3B!!Mih3wA!TlyHZFzEZ7SUE8GqN8__jv7a2SAk9Q_jiqAbrNCH5Bf1I-_gLIHGg1AbVtGJm26SqOHBwA*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C6f6f52b10ee64d7bfdbd08d7f9d8676f*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637252580239268522&sdata=s6REk*2BjVd*2Btd*2BH4FD*2FsS8hm1G6*2B*2FmMW*2FXfk4Vok6eNM*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!Mih3wA!R9drsiySNEmllp604wKW_RghL8N-6pKyp0upwIQ08rRyyX4_xUCbMKYtkRxP4LhYAqXW_A$>
>>> Home Page
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fwww.ethicalpolitics.org*2Fablunden*2Findex.htm__*3B!!Mih3wA!TlyHZFzEZ7SUE8GqN8__jv7a2SAk9Q_jiqAbrNCH5Bf1I-_gLIHGg1AbVtGJm26T9d8i0w*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C6f6f52b10ee64d7bfdbd08d7f9d8676f*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637252580239268522&sdata=VSo7NWNg3ZIpG7YMMUA6Ch*2BLEaFsqH*2FT1*2FuHN0t7Zlc*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!Mih3wA!R9drsiySNEmllp604wKW_RghL8N-6pKyp0upwIQ08rRyyX4_xUCbMKYtkRxP4LiAFa1TEg$>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 16/05/2020 4:18 am, Annalisa Aguilar wrote:
>>>
>>> Andy, et al,
>>>
>>> I sort of came to this a little late in the
>>> thread, but I can offer that Vera John-Steiner
>>> didn't mind "sociocultural" to describe
>>> Vygotskian theory, but as I learn more about the
>>> word (thank you Mike), I can see how once a word
>>> is utilized with intent of derision, it's hard
>>> for the association to be broken.
>>>
>>> I think it's that way with words all the time
>>> coming and going out of favor, or meanings
>>> shifting, like the game of telephone, but across
>>> generations and cultures.
>>>
>>> Might I contribute to the discussion by asking
>>> whether the use of "sociocultural" was also a
>>> means of making the theories more available in
>>> the West (at least in the US). It seems there
>>> was redscare (you are welcome read the double
>>> entendre: "red scare" or "reds care", as you
>>> like) prevalent, and wouldn't it be useful to
>>> remove the Marxist "brand" to access the actual
>>> theories on child development? In other words,
>>> to depoliticize the science?
>>>
>>> I had been a proponent of the use of the word,
>>> but as time passes, I can see its problems.
>>>
>>> For me, I had preferred the word because
>>> historical was always a given for me. In concern
>>> of the here and now, the real difficulty I had
>>> thought was understanding the social- how
>>> interactions between the child and the
>>> caretaker/teacher/knowledgeable peer and the
>>> -cultural, how the culture impacts thought,
>>> those things are more of the micro level, but
>>> also sociocultural, how the two also can
>>> interact and influence one another and that
>>> combined bears its own signature on the mind and
>>> its development. As far as History (capital H)
>>> that is sort of difficult to measure when we are
>>> talking about child development as there is very
>>> little history that a child has, unless we are
>>> talking about genetics, I suppose.
>>>
>>> Now? I'm fairly agnostic about the term. I
>>> respect and am enriched by the discourse in
>>> which we now we find ourselves immersed about it
>>> so thanks to all for this.
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>>
>>> Annalisa
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> *From:*xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> on
>>> behalf of Andy Blunden <andyb@marxists.org>
>>> <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, May 14, 2020 7:24 PM
>>> *To:* xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>> <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: "sociocultural
>>> psychology" ?
>>>
>>> * [EXTERNAL]*
>>>
>>> In response to requests, I will elaborate.
>>> Apologies to Mike if I have garbled the long and
>>> complex story he told. I have done my best.
>>>
>>> Jim Wertsch said:
>>>
>>> Various people undoubtedly have various
>>> accounts of this, but I consciously started
>>> to use this in order to bring in cultural
>>> anthropology and also to avoid the
>>> unexamined social evolutionism in some
>>> approaches that I was building from. I
>>> believe I started highlighting it in my 1985
>>> book on Vygotsky, and by 1991 it was part of
>>> the subtitle of my book Voices of the Mind.
>>> It is not a term used by Soviet scholars
>>> when talking about the Vygotsky tradition.
>>> Instead, the terms there were
>>> “socio-historical” or “cultural-historical.”
>>>
>>> Mike Cole told me:
>>>
>>> In addition to what has been said on line
>>> ... initially, the term "sociocultural" was
>>> used as a term of abuse by the opponents of
>>> Vygotsky's ideas in the Soviet bureaucracy,
>>> so it was not a term which his Russian
>>> followers ever embraced. The Soviet
>>> hostility to Vygotsky came to a head,
>>> apparently, in 1986 when ISCRAT had a
>>> conference in Berlin and the Soviets
>>> prevented Russian delegates form attending.
>>> Jim Wertsch, who had been on a sabbatical
>>> year, and had been in the Soviet Union, and
>>> was angry about what he saw, was at the
>>> congress too and went from there to a
>>> conference in Spain where a group of Spanish
>>> Vygotskyists were arguing that Vygotskyists
>>> had ignored the needs, etc., of the "global
>>> South" and they used the term
>>> "sociocultural" for their approach, meaning
>>> something like Vygotsky+postcolonialism.
>>> Wertsch embraced this idea and henceforth
>>> adopted to term, meaning to distinguish
>>> himself from the Soviet-influence. CHAT
>>> emerged as a term a little later in an
>>> effort to unite the followers of the various
>>> brands of "Activity Theory" with those who
>>> did not embrace the Activity Theory of
>>> Vygotsky's Russian followers and stuck with
>>> Vygotsky. CHAT includes the H for History,
>>> because in all the various terms being used
>>> at that time, there was no attention to the
>>> important place of History in theory, and it
>>> was Mike who insisted on its inclusion.
>>>
>>> Andy
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> *Andy Blunden*
>>> Hegel for Social Movements
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fbrill.com*2Fview*2Ftitle*2F54574__*3B!!Mih3wA!RTGbCZZ1yCkr4jCqSe4SB3e7KrPD-Ptq8Hhz2_7jDT2OtWnRBco2e9D6yKW2qUv1JKsaYg*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C6f6f52b10ee64d7bfdbd08d7f9d8676f*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637252580239278520&sdata=FLANmOnaPEFF5oIeWQ5kCKbqYbe6iFAclNQm1fOZYR8*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!Mih3wA!R9drsiySNEmllp604wKW_RghL8N-6pKyp0upwIQ08rRyyX4_xUCbMKYtkRxP4LgPjvA5UA$>
>>> Home Page
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fwww.ethicalpolitics.org*2Fablunden*2Findex.htm__*3B!!Mih3wA!RTGbCZZ1yCkr4jCqSe4SB3e7KrPD-Ptq8Hhz2_7jDT2OtWnRBco2e9D6yKW2qUuwMTbXLQ*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C6f6f52b10ee64d7bfdbd08d7f9d8676f*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637252580239278520&sdata=HMid9x1N44GOmAuhlJK8qxH5bUQrMS*2F*2B4Vk1lD1SWuc*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!Mih3wA!R9drsiySNEmllp604wKW_RghL8N-6pKyp0upwIQ08rRyyX4_xUCbMKYtkRxP4LhkQDj2Xg$>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 14/05/2020 11:55 am, Andy Blunden wrote:
>>>
>>> I should have reported progress with my
>>> question.
>>>
>>> Jim Wertsch responded to me on email and
>>> Mike Cole Skyped me and between these two I
>>> have a very rich history of the usage of
>>> this term and the various nuances it
>>> acquired and shed, and Mike has put the
>>> article Martin referred to on his
>>> academia.edu
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://academia.edu__;!!Mih3wA!QwnjuGWv1M4ZX6kMNV7A1nO46fLjKXBSeMFcdiKYZQb3gv2FV78Tq_DhJK9vM5JRfqixgg$>
>>> page for us all to read.
>>>
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.academia.edu/43037735/Sociocul_tural_studies_of_rnind_Edited_by__;!!Mih3wA!TLrWUBWNIMJR-d4Rr1HJ5aNy8a9feC14rEE8Y9KK_yg-3NYAubzMD2iHXcVRpSlprYvMRg$
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fwww.academia.edu*2F43037735*2FSociocul_tural_studies_of_rnind_Edited_by__*3B!!Mih3wA!R2PQRv7SmtSpShBHHVPDEjIG1-ol_VEYh22ETbbkrOTaZbmV95HyZtHr1MBppGr6Y2oI9g*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C6f6f52b10ee64d7bfdbd08d7f9d8676f*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637252580239288506&sdata=XcvnRhgInU9s5VskjKNzt*2FcJaBfZ5*2B3OCtM1FUPRlLo*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!Mih3wA!R9drsiySNEmllp604wKW_RghL8N-6pKyp0upwIQ08rRyyX4_xUCbMKYtkRxP4Lh4wNA_pg$>
>>>
>>> As ever, XMCA has proved to be a bottomless
>>> mine of wisdom. Thank you.
>>>
>>> Andy
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> *Andy Blunden*
>>> Hegel for Social Movements
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fbrill.com*2Fview*2Ftitle*2F54574__*3B!!Mih3wA!R2PQRv7SmtSpShBHHVPDEjIG1-ol_VEYh22ETbbkrOTaZbmV95HyZtHr1MBppGqUcVpkyg*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C6f6f52b10ee64d7bfdbd08d7f9d8676f*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637252580239288506&sdata=xcS1SSFemLn7JM*2FyTZ64EHDFjeZKagJeSSeS5lFClMg*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!Mih3wA!R9drsiySNEmllp604wKW_RghL8N-6pKyp0upwIQ08rRyyX4_xUCbMKYtkRxP4LhuZTJgUA$>
>>> Home Page
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fwww.ethicalpolitics.org*2Fablunden*2Findex.htm__*3B!!Mih3wA!R2PQRv7SmtSpShBHHVPDEjIG1-ol_VEYh22ETbbkrOTaZbmV95HyZtHr1MBppGoS67wBRQ*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C6f6f52b10ee64d7bfdbd08d7f9d8676f*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637252580239298499&sdata=QmqD5a3I*2Fn5TxM*2FgIwmos*2FoVrYwVynB*2FGH*2BygmbXmz4*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!Mih3wA!R9drsiySNEmllp604wKW_RghL8N-6pKyp0upwIQ08rRyyX4_xUCbMKYtkRxP4LhFRqOAbQ$>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 14/05/2020 1:38 am, Charles Bazerman wrote:
>>>
>>> Thank you Anthony for the interesting
>>> question and link. The way I see this
>>> issue is that Vygotskian work
>>> attempts to understand human activity
>>> multi-dimensionally (or even better
>>> holistically, trying to reunite what the
>>> emergence of various parochial
>>> disciplines have pulled apart for
>>> analysis of the separate dimensions).
>>> The different terms that Veresov points
>>> out as contending are simply
>>> foregrounding those sets of components
>>> that are most salient to the particular
>>> analyst at that moment. To those we
>>> might add other elements that Vygotsky
>>> was interested in such as consciousness
>>> and language and experience and
>>> mediation (and even economics and human
>>> knowledge and education lurk in the
>>> background, as well as human
>>> neurodiversity as well as materialities
>>> of the experienced world). That is the
>>> wonder of Vygotsky, even though he may
>>> have developed some of the components
>>> more than others and he was acting
>>> nominally as a psychologist--yet his
>>> approach allows the integration of all
>>> these components.
>>>
>>> I therefore use different conjunctions
>>> of terms depending on what I am talking
>>> about, and I see activity as the
>>> overarching term--though this does not
>>> necessarily mean triangles all the
>>> time. Rather activity is humans in
>>> motion, mobilizing multiple internal and
>>> external resources in situations.
>>>
>>> While I would like some stability in
>>> terms, right now our different concerns
>>> and issues leave salience mutable. And I
>>> am not yet comfortable in being
>>> terminally enlisted into another
>>> scholar's transient saliencies.
>>>
>>> BTW, I see another related, parallel
>>> attempt at reintegrating the social
>>> sciences in the pragmatist project which
>>> has at times been in communication with
>>> the activity theory project (see my
>>> paper "Practically Human"). This
>>> project also never settled on a coherent
>>> set of terms and stable concepts.
>>>
>>> Chuck
>>>
>>> ----
>>>
>>> די פאַרייניקטע שטאַטן איז אַ פאָלק פון ימאַגראַנץ
>>>
>>> الولايات المتحدة هي أمة من المهاجرين
>>>
>>> Los Estados Unidos es una nación de
>>> inmigrantes.
>>>
>>> The U.S. is a nation of immigrants.
>>>
>>> History will judge.
>>>
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://bazerman.education.ucsb.edu/__;!!Mih3wA!TLrWUBWNIMJR-d4Rr1HJ5aNy8a9feC14rEE8Y9KK_yg-3NYAubzMD2iHXcVRpSlXtuKv9g$
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fbazerman.education.ucsb.edu*2F__*3B!!Mih3wA!UhKa4f0rCaFbK573eepABBebep9QDP87JqQVUnd9uIfxETz6hRUnOR46PYaTgoSDGY6tLw*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C6f6f52b10ee64d7bfdbd08d7f9d8676f*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637252580239298499&sdata=YYotBz*2FLx9lrpHnuzmdH0tmWFHIbSxu50td95dTknno*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!Mih3wA!R9drsiySNEmllp604wKW_RghL8N-6pKyp0upwIQ08rRyyX4_xUCbMKYtkRxP4Lhb42BulQ$>
>>>
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Charles_Bazerman__;!!Mih3wA!TLrWUBWNIMJR-d4Rr1HJ5aNy8a9feC14rEE8Y9KK_yg-3NYAubzMD2iHXcVRpSm7Dp0XeQ$
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fwww.researchgate.net*2Fprofile*2FCharles_Bazerman__*3B!!Mih3wA!UhKa4f0rCaFbK573eepABBebep9QDP87JqQVUnd9uIfxETz6hRUnOR46PYaTgoSePA_SrQ*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C6f6f52b10ee64d7bfdbd08d7f9d8676f*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637252580239298499&sdata=sxD*2BC5O6yW2fjqB5lQJRoQiNdifrOrKtn3My7OYmvkM*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!Mih3wA!R9drsiySNEmllp604wKW_RghL8N-6pKyp0upwIQ08rRyyX4_xUCbMKYtkRxP4LisSOQQ7g$>
>>>
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.isawr.org__;!!Mih3wA!TLrWUBWNIMJR-d4Rr1HJ5aNy8a9feC14rEE8Y9KK_yg-3NYAubzMD2iHXcVRpSmPBrjkNg$
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__http*3A*2F*2Fwww.isawr.org__*3B!!Mih3wA!UhKa4f0rCaFbK573eepABBebep9QDP87JqQVUnd9uIfxETz6hRUnOR46PYaTgoRwwTwk4Q*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C6f6f52b10ee64d7bfdbd08d7f9d8676f*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637252580239308499&sdata=ty3wyjZC5dcftcE*2F5iKUw9CJMG68NNZR2WbJ2ttvMUU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!Mih3wA!R9drsiySNEmllp604wKW_RghL8N-6pKyp0upwIQ08rRyyX4_xUCbMKYtkRxP4LgkchwEcw$>
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 8:08 AM Anthony
>>> Barra <anthonymbarra@gmail.com
>>> <mailto:anthonymbarra@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Interesting question (and
>>> follow-ups) here. Thanks, Andy.
>>>
>>> While not 100% related, I wonder if
>>> this brief, 2-minute excerpt adds
>>> any value:
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT4uktowa-M__;!!Mih3wA!TLrWUBWNIMJR-d4Rr1HJ5aNy8a9feC14rEE8Y9KK_yg-3NYAubzMD2iHXcVRpSnD-DiSwQ$
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fwww.youtube.com*2Fwatch*3Fv*3DsT4uktowa-M__*3B!!Mih3wA!WLyceskZQL4AGQL-pVuwd-RH-yfvzQvsIVerMU367Nw8BZjwVLHdZ94SZfyfIX_sfjyW7w*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C6f6f52b10ee64d7bfdbd08d7f9d8676f*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637252580239308499&sdata=6UFlX9lSu4veWnKkWZzz5xkeNmlBpBA4ZVtO9I*2FQZpE*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!Mih3wA!R9drsiySNEmllp604wKW_RghL8N-6pKyp0upwIQ08rRyyX4_xUCbMKYtkRxP4LiijCWx3g$> "Pros
>>> and Cons of (terminological) Diversity"
>>>
>>> As a non-expert, I can empathize
>>> with Nikolai's main point, but I'm
>>> not so sure the cons outweigh the
>>> pros here.
>>>
>>> But what WOULD happen if a
>>> terminological consensus was formed
>>> -- could Vygotsky's theory (and
>>> methodology), in fact, be
>>> definitively defined? If so, would
>>> the benefits of doing so outweigh
>>> the constraints?
>>>
>>> I'm guessing this is an old
>>> conversation, and maybe even stale,
>>> but I'm more outsider than insider
>>> and don't really know.
>>>
>>> Thank you for any insight.
>>>
>>> Anthony
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:19 AM
>>> Martin Packer <mpacker@cantab.net
>>> <mailto:mpacker@cantab.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I had assumed you were looking
>>> for uses earlier than Jim
>>> Wertsch’s, Andy.
>>>
>>> Jim used the term in titles in
>>> 1989 too. And in the
>>> introduction to this book he,
>>> along with Pablo del Rio and
>>> Amelia Alvarez, explain why in
>>> their view it’s the best term:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Wertsch, J. V., del Río, P., &
>>> Alvarez, A. (Eds.). (1995).
>>> /Sociocultural studies of mind./
>>> Cambridge University Press.
>>>
>>> Martin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 12, 2020, at 11:13
>>> PM, Andy Blunden
>>> <andyb@marxists.org
>>> <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks to everyone for their
>>> help. It all went into the
>>> mix. Indeed, the term seems
>>> to have migrated from
>>> Spanish to English and the
>>> word "sociocultural" became
>>> popular in 1990, and it
>>> seems that Jim Wertsch is
>>> the fellow who triggered the
>>> explosion in "sociocultural
>>> psychology" with "Voices of
>>> the mind : a sociocultural
>>> approach to mediated action
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fwww.worldcat.org*2Ftitle*2Fvoices-of-the-mind-a-sociocultural-approach-to-mediated-action*2Foclc*2F797855062*26referer*3Dbrief_results__*3B!!Mih3wA!WsWX2sD5ZfUnBEp3uLEVG7T0NliMnbPpuJl6VOoxtiFfKP5msJWjbZPFaCQ6jDWDMZtFSg*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C6f6f52b10ee64d7bfdbd08d7f9d8676f*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637252580239318487&sdata=RyYC7QwYVjtVmNNOElr0tESBV*2F5ODtp7cefdZ073l*2Fk*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!Mih3wA!R9drsiySNEmllp604wKW_RghL8N-6pKyp0upwIQ08rRyyX4_xUCbMKYtkRxP4LiHcikE5g$>"
>>> published by Harvard
>>> University Press in 1991.
>>>
>>> Although "sociocultural"
>>> seems to be most widely
>>> associated with "context
>>> dependence," Wertsch's
>>> reference to "mediated
>>> action" in the title of this
>>> book makes it clear that for
>>> him "context" referred to
>>> the signs and artefacts
>>> mediating action.
>>>
>>> Thanks again to all
>>>
>>> Andy
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> *Andy Blunden*
>>> Hegel for Social Movements
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fbrill.com*2Fview*2Ftitle*2F54574__*3B!!Mih3wA!WsWX2sD5ZfUnBEp3uLEVG7T0NliMnbPpuJl6VOoxtiFfKP5msJWjbZPFaCQ6jDWcr53a1g*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C6f6f52b10ee64d7bfdbd08d7f9d8676f*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637252580239318487&sdata=f*2BBENaDe*2B01ZtIXe1URyQuTqvsZ6p3Xj5G9IJG4yicY*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!Mih3wA!R9drsiySNEmllp604wKW_RghL8N-6pKyp0upwIQ08rRyyX4_xUCbMKYtkRxP4LiFIOsgIw$>
>>> Home Page
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fwww.ethicalpolitics.org*2Fablunden*2Findex.htm__*3B!!Mih3wA!WsWX2sD5ZfUnBEp3uLEVG7T0NliMnbPpuJl6VOoxtiFfKP5msJWjbZPFaCQ6jDW3ivveVA*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C6f6f52b10ee64d7bfdbd08d7f9d8676f*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637252580239328484&sdata=ef516eOfirI7wrTLZ7jOrE5Q9Kk7z*2FJIutau*2BAVLiw0*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!Mih3wA!R9drsiySNEmllp604wKW_RghL8N-6pKyp0upwIQ08rRyyX4_xUCbMKYtkRxP4LhgkgXJSA$>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 13/05/2020 12:26 pm,
>>> David Kellogg wrote:
>>>
>>> Andy--
>>>
>>> Go to to the Google
>>> N-gram site itself.
>>>
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://books.google.com/ngrams__;!!Mih3wA!TLrWUBWNIMJR-d4Rr1HJ5aNy8a9feC14rEE8Y9KK_yg-3NYAubzMD2iHXcVRpSkrNXPoow$
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fbooks.google.com*2Fngrams__*3B!!Mih3wA!Wt7qmS7sdvLo3anWG71NQFUJMvyFBqEy-mStjfAI_HEUpY8D8dQt5zHkl12Ld90MDkv2Mw*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C6f6f52b10ee64d7bfdbd08d7f9d8676f*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637252580239328484&sdata=*2FUOgbPpqMQ*2FTsbUl7v8mRG6Kgtvv8aOMRuLTmtsDE5c*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!Mih3wA!R9drsiySNEmllp604wKW_RghL8N-6pKyp0upwIQ08rRyyX4_xUCbMKYtkRxP4LjDYUhIBw$>
>>>
>>> Then do your own n-gram
>>> for "sociocultural
>>> psychology". If you set
>>> the years you'll get
>>> better granularity in
>>> the document search.
>>>
>>> On the bottom of the
>>> n-gram, there are some
>>> dates in blue--when you
>>> click on them, you
>>> should get a list of all
>>> the books used in the
>>> search.
>>>
>>> dk
>>>
>>>
>>> David Kellogg
>>>
>>> Sangmyung University
>>>
>>> New Article: Ruqaiya
>>> Hasan, in memoriam: A
>>> manual and a manifesto.
>>>
>>> Outlines, Spring 2020
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238/167607__;!!Mih3wA!TLrWUBWNIMJR-d4Rr1HJ5aNy8a9feC14rEE8Y9KK_yg-3NYAubzMD2iHXcVRpSklIJuR3Q$
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Ftidsskrift.dk*2Foutlines*2Farticle*2Fview*2F116238*2F167607__*3B!!Mih3wA!Wt7qmS7sdvLo3anWG71NQFUJMvyFBqEy-mStjfAI_HEUpY8D8dQt5zHkl12Ld92Vl0flPg*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C6f6f52b10ee64d7bfdbd08d7f9d8676f*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637252580239328484&sdata=WVLG32RAUDNfblAr7J24arQ7irK0b*2F5e9RQCsOjvQzk*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!Mih3wA!R9drsiySNEmllp604wKW_RghL8N-6pKyp0upwIQ08rRyyX4_xUCbMKYtkRxP4LgqnD3y5g$>
>>>
>>> New Translation with
>>> Nikolai Veresov: /L.S.
>>> Vygotsky's Pedological
>>> Works/ /Volume One:
>>> Foundations of Pedology/"
>>>
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!TLrWUBWNIMJR-d4Rr1HJ5aNy8a9feC14rEE8Y9KK_yg-3NYAubzMD2iHXcVRpSnyv5vLjw$
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fwww.springer.com*2Fgp*2Fbook*2F9789811505270__*3B!!Mih3wA!Wt7qmS7sdvLo3anWG71NQFUJMvyFBqEy-mStjfAI_HEUpY8D8dQt5zHkl12Ld92EeQenpA*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C6f6f52b10ee64d7bfdbd08d7f9d8676f*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637252580239338478&sdata=Xvh4gDjnU6LBHc*2Fy899diTP*2B3ghjtUkukR5XMXSC0*2Bk*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!Mih3wA!R9drsiySNEmllp604wKW_RghL8N-6pKyp0upwIQ08rRyyX4_xUCbMKYtkRxP4LgkWxCxmA$>
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at
>>> 11:17 AM Martin Packer
>>> <mpacker@cantab.net
>>> <mailto:mpacker@cantab.net>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> The earliest use of
>>> the term
>>> ‘sociocultural’ I’ve
>>> been able to find in
>>> English is this:
>>>
>>> A sociocultural
>>> psychology,
>>> by Rogelio Diaz-Guerrero
>>>
>>> In "Chicano
>>> psychology", 1977 -
>>> Academic Press
>>>
>>> Diaz-Guerrero was
>>> Mexican
>>> psychologists whose
>>> publications in
>>> Spanish use the term
>>> ‘sociocultural’
>>> frequently.
>>>
>>> The 2nd edition of
>>> Chicano Psychology
>>> is available in
>>> Google books,
>>> and Diaz-Guerrero
>>> has a chapter in it,
>>> but titled The
>>> psychological study
>>> of the Mexican.
>>>
>>> Martin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 12, 2020,
>>> at 8:47 PM, Andy
>>> Blunden
>>> <andyb@marxists.org
>>> <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> That graph from
>>> Google shows
>>> that usage of
>>> the term took
>>> off in 1988. How
>>> do we find out
>>> who wrote what
>>> in 1988?
>>>
>>> And Google also
>>> tell us that
>>> "Sociocultural theory
>>> grew from the
>>> work of
>>> seminal psychologist Lev
>>> Vygotsky, who
>>> believed that
>>> parents,
>>> caregivers,
>>> peers, and the
>>> culture at large
>>> were responsible
>>> for developing
>>> higher-order
>>> functions.
>>> According to
>>> Vygotsky,
>>> learning has its
>>> basis in
>>> interacting with
>>> other people,"
>>> together with a
>>> reference. So
>>> that is nice.
>>>
>>> Andy
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> *Andy Blunden*
>>> Hegel for Social
>>> Movements
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fbrill.com*2Fview*2Ftitle*2F54574__*3B!!Mih3wA!XAtiPQXEOK3tz8RHCURqNz0psvv8Js3PxWmYUmHtZyY5j_IK-RqcFDVph7-NJ5i1rCBdtQ*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C6f6f52b10ee64d7bfdbd08d7f9d8676f*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637252580239338478&sdata=qBSVoWIFYYX4P80*2BAGmetGqnFMmaauWgsqlbYxCFCBk*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!Mih3wA!R9drsiySNEmllp604wKW_RghL8N-6pKyp0upwIQ08rRyyX4_xUCbMKYtkRxP4LgyfOHa3A$>
>>> Home Page
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fwww.ethicalpolitics.org*2Fablunden*2Findex.htm__*3B!!Mih3wA!XAtiPQXEOK3tz8RHCURqNz0psvv8Js3PxWmYUmHtZyY5j_IK-RqcFDVph7-NJ5gDytDZfw*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C6f6f52b10ee64d7bfdbd08d7f9d8676f*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637252580239348475&sdata=SSj*2Fb*2FvjoI*2BCcc6qflhVwBGnUSdOi6u*2FNHu8LONom3w*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!Mih3wA!R9drsiySNEmllp604wKW_RghL8N-6pKyp0upwIQ08rRyyX4_xUCbMKYtkRxP4Lhr4ir5Mw$>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 13/05/2020
>>> 11:30 am, David
>>> Kellogg wrote:
>>>
>>> Andy:
>>>
>>> I did a
>>> Google
>>> N-gram on
>>> it. You
>>> probably
>>> thought of
>>> doing this
>>> too, but
>>> here's what
>>> I got.
>>>
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://books.google.com/ngrams/interactive_chart?content=sociocultural*psychology&year_start=1800&year_end=2008&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1*3B*2Csociocultural*20psychology*3B*2Cc0__;KyUlJSUl!!Mih3wA!TLrWUBWNIMJR-d4Rr1HJ5aNy8a9feC14rEE8Y9KK_yg-3NYAubzMD2iHXcVRpSnsphfvVw$
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fbooks.google.com*2Fngrams*2Finteractive_chart*3Fcontent*3Dsociocultural*psychology*26year_start*3D1800*26year_end*3D2008*26corpus*3D15*26smoothing*3D3*26share*3D*26direct_url*3Dt1*3B*2Csociocultural*20psychology*3B*2Cc0__*3BKyUlJSUl!!Mih3wA!T9TXqTQDd-8tvv5PfuxbPkx6Drdw0VlIrRNfcypZApQv2jnziHRkeAppccOVAZEmjetMCg*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C6f6f52b10ee64d7bfdbd08d7f9d8676f*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637252580239348475&sdata=FhIdfQLJp4oYEid9OATTsoYOhr2DgQ3cTpuhbe7osMw*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlKiUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSoqKioqJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!Mih3wA!R9drsiySNEmllp604wKW_RghL8N-6pKyp0upwIQ08rRyyX4_xUCbMKYtkRxP4LgKKkyp5g$>"
>>> width=900
>>> height=500
>>> marginwidth=0
>>> marginheight=0
>>> hspace=0
>>> vspace=0
>>> frameborder=0
>>> scrolling=no
>>>
>>> So it all
>>> starts
>>> around 1960.
>>> At first I
>>> thought this
>>> probably
>>> referred to
>>> the Hanfmann
>>> and Vakar
>>> "Thought and
>>> Language",
>>> but when I
>>> looked the
>>> only books
>>> that used
>>> the term
>>> were sports
>>> psychology
>>> books. The
>>> big uptick
>>> after 1992
>>> is Vygotsky
>>> though.
>>>
>>> Of course,
>>> this is all
>>> English
>>> only. I am
>>> sure you
>>> will find
>>> very
>>> different
>>> results in
>>> German,
>>> where
>>> "cultural
>>> historical
>>> psychology"
>>> is the trend
>>> identified
>>> with
>>> Dilthey,
>>> Spranger,
>>> and
>>> neo-Kantianism
>>> generally.
>>>
>>>
>>> David Kellogg
>>>
>>> Sangmyung
>>> University
>>>
>>> New Article:
>>> Ruqaiya
>>> Hasan, in
>>> memoriam: A
>>> manual and a
>>> manifesto.
>>>
>>> Outlines,
>>> Spring 2020
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238/167607__;!!Mih3wA!TLrWUBWNIMJR-d4Rr1HJ5aNy8a9feC14rEE8Y9KK_yg-3NYAubzMD2iHXcVRpSklIJuR3Q$
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Ftidsskrift.dk*2Foutlines*2Farticle*2Fview*2F116238*2F167607__*3B!!Mih3wA!T9TXqTQDd-8tvv5PfuxbPkx6Drdw0VlIrRNfcypZApQv2jnziHRkeAppccOVAZFjmWjmLg*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C6f6f52b10ee64d7bfdbd08d7f9d8676f*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637252580239358467&sdata=xw1qyWhEol8GT8XnCRJSASfKSi7aPLhlr0ckrtcYVdQ*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!Mih3wA!R9drsiySNEmllp604wKW_RghL8N-6pKyp0upwIQ08rRyyX4_xUCbMKYtkRxP4Lgk8ewiWw$>
>>>
>>> New
>>> Translation
>>> with Nikolai
>>> Veresov:
>>> /L.S.
>>> Vygotsky's
>>> Pedological
>>> Works/
>>> /Volume One:
>>> Foundations
>>> of Pedology/"
>>>
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!TLrWUBWNIMJR-d4Rr1HJ5aNy8a9feC14rEE8Y9KK_yg-3NYAubzMD2iHXcVRpSnyv5vLjw$
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fwww.springer.com*2Fgp*2Fbook*2F9789811505270__*3B!!Mih3wA!T9TXqTQDd-8tvv5PfuxbPkx6Drdw0VlIrRNfcypZApQv2jnziHRkeAppccOVAZGMmypSYw*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C6f6f52b10ee64d7bfdbd08d7f9d8676f*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637252580239358467&sdata=QnWXAvHKoTX0CtKN1eU3AJRBcx9s9oc1TTv4FYB7*2FZc*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!Mih3wA!R9drsiySNEmllp604wKW_RghL8N-6pKyp0upwIQ08rRyyX4_xUCbMKYtkRxP4LiyK3zyUQ$>
>>>
>>> On Tue, May
>>> 12, 2020 at
>>> 10:43 PM
>>> Andy Blunden
>>> <andyb@marxists.org
>>> <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Can
>>> anyone
>>> tell me
>>> when and
>>> with
>>> whom the
>>> term
>>> "sociocultural
>>> psychology"
>>> originated?
>>>
>>> Andy
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> *Andy
>>> Blunden*
>>> Hegel
>>> for
>>> Social
>>> Movements
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fbrill.com*2Fview*2Ftitle*2F54574__*3B!!Mih3wA!WBIr3_zzidcxaloVcp2qUX4U6WR3f7enQ2z2gvamcdo3Ihy82L4ZkR-PgfCDASisbYxsxw*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C6f6f52b10ee64d7bfdbd08d7f9d8676f*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637252580239368456&sdata=i6vvnyWQ*2FWJt3azf9lTxyhKw8pRiZj9NGtNk*2BXVYsH0*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!Mih3wA!R9drsiySNEmllp604wKW_RghL8N-6pKyp0upwIQ08rRyyX4_xUCbMKYtkRxP4LjrP78fag$>
>>> Home
>>> Page
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fwww.ethicalpolitics.org*2Fablunden*2Findex.htm__*3B!!Mih3wA!WBIr3_zzidcxaloVcp2qUX4U6WR3f7enQ2z2gvamcdo3Ihy82L4ZkR-PgfCDASiXKr5OJw*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C6f6f52b10ee64d7bfdbd08d7f9d8676f*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637252580239368456&sdata=10eyz8KMqDUm*2FgWxXkhvGvNLmUNY6*2F4x5vTWsmjIdNw*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!Mih3wA!R9drsiySNEmllp604wKW_RghL8N-6pKyp0upwIQ08rRyyX4_xUCbMKYtkRxP4LiTrxjvMg$>
>>>
>>>
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