[Xmca-l] Re: "sociocultural psychology" ?

Sat May 16 17:14:59 PDT 2020

It's a very domain-specific umbrella, like those cane-brollies that go with
a bowler. "Sociocultural" is strongly preferred used in second language
acquisition, thanks to the influence of Merrill Swain, Jim Lantolf and
Matthew Poehner; I have never seen "cultural historical" used in this
literature. But "cultural-historical" is similarly preferred in psychology
and anthropology, thanks to the influence of J.V. Wertsch, Mike
Cole, Martin Packer and Andy Blunden; that's really why we are having this
discussion on what "socio-cultural" might mean on a list largely populated
by roving psychologists and nomadic anthropologues.

Interestingly, the Francophones prefer "historico-cultural", using the
argument that you can understand the process without the product but not
the product without the process. I stopped using "sociocultural" because I
thought it was redundant, but now I am really not sure of this: it seems to
me that the relationship is a similar one--you can study society as process
without studying its cultural product (e.g. as demographics, economics,
statistics) but you can't really study culture without some understanding
of the process of its formation.

There was a similar disagreement in systemic functional linguistics between
Halliday and Jim Martin over the term "socio-semiotic". Martin said that it
was redundant, because there couldn't be any semiotic without
society. Halliday rather flippantly replied that ants had a society without
a semiotics, and at the time it seemed to me that this was a non
sequitur, first of all because ants don't really have a society in
our sense (precisely because there is no such thing as an ant history
separate from phylogenesis on the one hand and ontogenesis on the other)
and secondly because ants most definitely do have a semiotics, albeit one
based on chemistry and not perception as ours is.

It seems to me, in retrospect, that the relationship between the semiotic
and the social is much more like the relationship between the social and
the biological, or even the biological and the chemical. The semiotic is a
certain level of organization that the social has, but there are
other levels, just as biology is a certain kind of chemical organization
which does not exclude other, nonbiological ways organizing chemicals,
and chemistry is a kind of physical organization which doesn't exclude
sub-chemical organizations.

Perhaps we can think of the relationship between culture and society in the
same way?

David Kellogg
Sangmyung University

New Article: Ruqaiya Hasan, in memoriam: A manual and a manifesto.
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On Sun, May 17, 2020 at 8:28 AM David H Kirshner <dkirsh@lsu.edu> wrote:

> 4. As an umbrella term for any sociogenetic approach.
>
> Isn’t that its current usage?
>
> David
>
>
>
> *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> *On
> Behalf Of *Annalisa Aguilar
> *Sent:* Saturday, May 16, 2020 3:31 PM
> *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: "sociocultural psychology" ?
>
>
>
> Hi Andy, and VO's,
>
>
>
> What fascinates me is that the word "sociocultural" has a lot of different
> facets in terms of how the word was used in different contexts. It seems
> there are three I've been able to pick out.
>
>    1. as a derisive term in early Soviet history.
>    2. as an empowering term from Latin American voices.
>    3. as a relaxed term of the Marxist "brand" at the height of the Cold
>    War in the US.
>
> I'm not sure if I've done justice in the manner that I've represented
> that, but it is a well-intended attempt. Are there others?
>
>
>
> What I don't understand fully is whether there must be ONE explanation how
> the term came to be, or ONE definition of what it actually means. Can't it
> be polysemantic?  polycontextual?
>
>
>
> If that is what's happening, then it makes sense that there would be an
> ongoing controversy about which one is the right definition or reason for
> not using it, depending on the interlocutor.
>
>
>
> If we are to talk about who used the term first, and that's where the
> value/authority holds, then all that tells us is that for those who value
> who used the term first. that's where the authority is.
>
>
>
> If we talk about the emotional attachment of the word as it is used in
> context and that's where the value/authority holds, then that tells us for
> those who value the most personal attachment to the word, that's where the
> authority is.
>
>
>
> If we talk about how the word was used functionally, where the
> value/authority holds in its efficacy, then all that tells is that for
> those who value whether the word works or not, that's where the authority
> is.
>
>
>
> I'm not sure one can put any of one these over the other two (or if there
> are more than that, if there are more). All we can say I suppose is whether
> in a particular context is the word "sociocultural" appropriate or not?
>
>
>
> I do find that this debate has begun to have its own life, this debate
> over the use of a word. I've begun doubt it will ever cease.
>
>
>
> One day the discussion will be how one used to debate about the term,
> first everyone was this way about the word, than they were that way about
> the word, and many large camps were formed in XXXX year to say why the word
> should not be used, but then X years later other large camps formed to say
> it is fine to use the word. I suppose it will only be when the debate
> ceases will it come to pass that the debate will be forgotten. But will
> that cessation solidify the use or non-use of the word?
>
>
>
> I understand the reasons for saying "cultural psychology." But for those
> swimming in a culture where behaviorism is considered the soul of
> psychology, adding "cultural" becomes a sad necessity.  Even then, that
> necessity only depends upon how one sees culture, as either as an additive,
> an integral ingredient of psychology, or its basis. I believe I've read on
> the list that one should be able to say "psychology" and just *know* that
> it includes culture. I don't think we are there yet.
>
>
>
> Then that would be my argument to use "sociocultural" to understand it
> includes history. CHAT is sort of a defensive term (well, it is an
> acronym). But then... it leaves out "social" and is that OK? We certainly
> should not say sociocultural historical activity theory because that
> acronym is very unfulfilling. What is nice about CHAT though is that to
> chat is an activity of speech, and there is a implied meaning that also
> pertains to Vygotskian theories, and therefore meaningful.
>
>
>
> In a sense, it's not the meaning that we are arguing over, but how the
> limitations of our particular language fails to convey a meaning with such
> precision that it thereby to parses away any other inappropriate meaning.
> I'm just not sure that the project is one that can be achieved
> successfully, even if it succeeds for an interim.
>
>
>
> At the same time I can see why story of the elephant and the blind men
> also have a part to play in our understandings and assumptions.
>
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
>
>
> Annalisa
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> on behalf of Andy Blunden <andyb@marxists.org>
> *Sent:* Friday, May 15, 2020 7:49 PM
> *To:* xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: "sociocultural psychology" ?
>
>
>
> *  [EXTERNAL]*
>
> Annalisa, I have only been talking and writing about Vygotsky and co.
> since about 2000 and have been openly Marxist since the 1960s (indeed,
> Vygotsky is core to how I understand Marx) and never had any reason not to
> be. But it is true that when Mike first went to Moscow, it was at the
> height of the Cold War, and when he and others first brought Vygotsky's
> ideas to the USA, there was a lot of resistance to their Marxist content. I
> think the naming issue only arose as Vygotsky and the others began to build
> a real following. The issues with the choice of name change over the years,
> as you say. I prefer" CHAT," but sometimes I use "Cultural Psychology" and
> sometimes I use "Activity Theory" depending on the context.
>
> Andy
> ------------------------------
>
> *Andy Blunden*
> Hegel for Social Movements
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fbrill.com*2Fview*2Ftitle*2F54574__*3B!!Mih3wA!TlyHZFzEZ7SUE8GqN8__jv7a2SAk9Q_jiqAbrNCH5Bf1I-_gLIHGg1AbVtGJm26SqOHBwA*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C6f6f52b10ee64d7bfdbd08d7f9d8676f*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637252580239268522&sdata=s6REk*2BjVd*2Btd*2BH4FD*2FsS8hm1G6*2B*2FmMW*2FXfk4Vok6eNM*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!Mih3wA!R9drsiySNEmllp604wKW_RghL8N-6pKyp0upwIQ08rRyyX4_xUCbMKYtkRxP4LhYAqXW_A$>
> Home Page
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>
> On 16/05/2020 4:18 am, Annalisa Aguilar wrote:
>
> Andy, et al,
>
>
>
> I sort of came to this a little late in the thread, but I can offer that
> Vera John-Steiner didn't mind "sociocultural" to describe Vygotskian
> theory, but as I learn more about the word (thank you Mike), I can see how
> once a word is utilized with intent of derision, it's hard for the
> association to be broken.
>
>
>
> I think it's that way with words all the time coming and going out of
> favor, or meanings shifting, like the game of telephone, but across
> generations and cultures.
>
>
>
> Might I contribute to the discussion by asking whether the use of
> "sociocultural" was also a means of making the theories more available in
> the West (at least in the US). It seems there was redscare (you are welcome
> read the double entendre: "red scare" or "reds care", as you like)
> prevalent, and wouldn't it be useful to remove the Marxist "brand" to
> access the actual theories on child development? In other words, to
> depoliticize the science?
>
>
>
> I had been a proponent of the use of the word, but as time passes, I can
> see its problems.
>
>
>
> For me, I had preferred the word because historical was always a given for
> me. In concern of the here and now, the real difficulty I had thought was
> understanding the social- how interactions between the child and the
> caretaker/teacher/knowledgeable peer and the -cultural, how the culture
> impacts thought, those things are more of the micro level, but also
> sociocultural, how the two also can interact and influence one another and
> that combined bears its own signature on the mind and its development.  As
> far as History (capital H) that is sort of difficult to measure when we are
> talking about child development as there is very little history that a
> child has, unless we are talking about genetics, I suppose.
>
>
>
> Now? I'm fairly agnostic about the term. I respect and am enriched by the
> discourse in which we now we find ourselves immersed about it so thanks to
> all for this.
>
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
>
>
> Annalisa
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> on behalf of Andy Blunden
> <andyb@marxists.org> <andyb@marxists.org>
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 14, 2020 7:24 PM
> *To:* xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: "sociocultural psychology" ?
>
>
>
> *  [EXTERNAL]*
>
> In response to requests, I will elaborate. Apologies to Mike if I have
> garbled the long and complex story he told. I have done my best.
>
> Jim Wertsch said:
>
> Various people undoubtedly have various accounts of this, but I
> consciously started to use this in order to bring in cultural anthropology
> and also to avoid the unexamined social evolutionism in some approaches
> that I was building from.  I believe I started highlighting it in my 1985
> book on Vygotsky, and by 1991 it was part of the subtitle of my book Voices
> of the Mind.  It is not a term used by Soviet scholars when talking about
> the Vygotsky tradition.  Instead, the terms there were “socio-historical”
> or “cultural-historical.”
>
> Mike Cole told me:
>
> In addition to what has been said on line ... initially, the term
> "sociocultural" was used as a term of abuse by the opponents of Vygotsky's
> ideas in the Soviet bureaucracy, so it was not a term which his Russian
> followers ever embraced. The Soviet hostility to Vygotsky came to a head,
> apparently, in 1986 when ISCRAT had a conference in Berlin and the Soviets
> prevented Russian delegates form attending. Jim Wertsch, who had been on a
> sabbatical year, and had been in the Soviet Union, and was angry about what
> he saw, was at the congress too and went from there to a conference in
> Spain where a group of Spanish Vygotskyists were arguing that Vygotskyists
> had ignored the needs, etc., of the "global South" and they used the term
> "sociocultural" for their approach, meaning something like
> Vygotsky+postcolonialism. Wertsch embraced this idea and henceforth adopted
> to term, meaning to distinguish himself from the Soviet-influence. CHAT
> emerged as a term a little later in an effort to unite the followers of the
> various brands of "Activity Theory" with those who did not embrace the
> Activity Theory of Vygotsky's Russian followers and stuck with Vygotsky.
> CHAT includes the H for History, because in all the various terms being
> used at that time, there was no attention to the important place of History
> in theory, and it was Mike who insisted on its inclusion.
>
> Andy
> ------------------------------
>
> *Andy Blunden*
> Hegel for Social Movements
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fbrill.com*2Fview*2Ftitle*2F54574__*3B!!Mih3wA!RTGbCZZ1yCkr4jCqSe4SB3e7KrPD-Ptq8Hhz2_7jDT2OtWnRBco2e9D6yKW2qUv1JKsaYg*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C6f6f52b10ee64d7bfdbd08d7f9d8676f*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637252580239278520&sdata=FLANmOnaPEFF5oIeWQ5kCKbqYbe6iFAclNQm1fOZYR8*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!Mih3wA!R9drsiySNEmllp604wKW_RghL8N-6pKyp0upwIQ08rRyyX4_xUCbMKYtkRxP4LgPjvA5UA$>
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>
> On 14/05/2020 11:55 am, Andy Blunden wrote:
>
> I should have reported progress with my question.
>
> Jim Wertsch responded to me on email and Mike Cole Skyped me and between
> these two I have a very rich history of the usage of this term and the
> various nuances it acquired and shed, and Mike has put the article Martin
> referred to on his academia.edu page for us all to read.
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.academia.edu/43037735/Sociocul_tural_studies_of_rnind_Edited_by__;!!Mih3wA!QwnjuGWv1M4ZX6kMNV7A1nO46fLjKXBSeMFcdiKYZQb3gv2FV78Tq_DhJK9vM5JHN6FmLw$ 
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>
> As ever, XMCA has proved to be a bottomless mine of wisdom. Thank you.
>
> Andy
> ------------------------------
>
> *Andy Blunden*
> Hegel for Social Movements
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fbrill.com*2Fview*2Ftitle*2F54574__*3B!!Mih3wA!R2PQRv7SmtSpShBHHVPDEjIG1-ol_VEYh22ETbbkrOTaZbmV95HyZtHr1MBppGqUcVpkyg*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C6f6f52b10ee64d7bfdbd08d7f9d8676f*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637252580239288506&sdata=xcS1SSFemLn7JM*2FyTZ64EHDFjeZKagJeSSeS5lFClMg*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!Mih3wA!R9drsiySNEmllp604wKW_RghL8N-6pKyp0upwIQ08rRyyX4_xUCbMKYtkRxP4LhuZTJgUA$>
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>
> On 14/05/2020 1:38 am, Charles Bazerman wrote:
>
> Thank you Anthony for the interesting question and link. The way I see
> this issue is that Vygotskian work attempts to understand human activity
> multi-dimensionally (or even better holistically, trying to reunite what
> the emergence of various parochial disciplines have pulled apart for
> analysis of the separate dimensions).  The different terms that Veresov
> points out as contending are simply foregrounding those sets of components
> that are most salient to the particular analyst at that moment.  To those
> we might add other elements that Vygotsky was interested in such as
> consciousness and language and experience and mediation (and even economics
> and human knowledge and education lurk in the background, as well as human
> neurodiversity as well as materialities of the experienced world).  That is
> the wonder of Vygotsky, even though he may have developed some of the
> components more than others and he was acting nominally as a
> psychologist--yet his approach allows the integration of all these
> components.
>
>
>
> I therefore use different conjunctions of terms depending on what I am
> talking about, and I see activity as the overarching term--though this does
> not necessarily mean triangles all the time.  Rather activity is humans in
> motion, mobilizing multiple internal and external resources in situations.
>
>
>
> While I would like some stability in terms, right now our different
> concerns and issues leave salience mutable. And I am not yet comfortable in
> being terminally enlisted into another scholar's transient saliencies.
>
>
>
> BTW, I see another related, parallel attempt at reintegrating the social
> sciences in the pragmatist project which has at times been in communication
> with the activity theory project (see my paper "Practically Human").  This
> project also never settled on a coherent set of terms and stable concepts.
>
>
>
> Chuck
>
> ----
>
> די פאַרייניקטע שטאַטן איז אַ פאָלק פון ימאַגראַנץ
>
> الولايات المتحدة هي أمة من المهاجرين
>
> Los Estados Unidos es una nación de inmigrantes.
>
> The U.S. is a nation of immigrants.
>
> History will judge.
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://bazerman.education.ucsb.edu/__;!!Mih3wA!QwnjuGWv1M4ZX6kMNV7A1nO46fLjKXBSeMFcdiKYZQb3gv2FV78Tq_DhJK9vM5Jn1DUz9Q$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fbazerman.education.ucsb.edu*2F__*3B!!Mih3wA!UhKa4f0rCaFbK573eepABBebep9QDP87JqQVUnd9uIfxETz6hRUnOR46PYaTgoSDGY6tLw*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C6f6f52b10ee64d7bfdbd08d7f9d8676f*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637252580239298499&sdata=YYotBz*2FLx9lrpHnuzmdH0tmWFHIbSxu50td95dTknno*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!Mih3wA!R9drsiySNEmllp604wKW_RghL8N-6pKyp0upwIQ08rRyyX4_xUCbMKYtkRxP4Lhb42BulQ$>
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Charles_Bazerman__;!!Mih3wA!QwnjuGWv1M4ZX6kMNV7A1nO46fLjKXBSeMFcdiKYZQb3gv2FV78Tq_DhJK9vM5KjkVCYRg$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fwww.researchgate.net*2Fprofile*2FCharles_Bazerman__*3B!!Mih3wA!UhKa4f0rCaFbK573eepABBebep9QDP87JqQVUnd9uIfxETz6hRUnOR46PYaTgoSePA_SrQ*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C6f6f52b10ee64d7bfdbd08d7f9d8676f*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637252580239298499&sdata=sxD*2BC5O6yW2fjqB5lQJRoQiNdifrOrKtn3My7OYmvkM*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!Mih3wA!R9drsiySNEmllp604wKW_RghL8N-6pKyp0upwIQ08rRyyX4_xUCbMKYtkRxP4LisSOQQ7g$>
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.isawr.org__;!!Mih3wA!QwnjuGWv1M4ZX6kMNV7A1nO46fLjKXBSeMFcdiKYZQb3gv2FV78Tq_DhJK9vM5J98qhbbA$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__http*3A*2F*2Fwww.isawr.org__*3B!!Mih3wA!UhKa4f0rCaFbK573eepABBebep9QDP87JqQVUnd9uIfxETz6hRUnOR46PYaTgoRwwTwk4Q*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C6f6f52b10ee64d7bfdbd08d7f9d8676f*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637252580239308499&sdata=ty3wyjZC5dcftcE*2F5iKUw9CJMG68NNZR2WbJ2ttvMUU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!Mih3wA!R9drsiySNEmllp604wKW_RghL8N-6pKyp0upwIQ08rRyyX4_xUCbMKYtkRxP4LgkchwEcw$>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 8:08 AM Anthony Barra <anthonymbarra@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Interesting question (and follow-ups) here.  Thanks, Andy.
>
>
>
> While not 100% related, I wonder if this brief, 2-minute excerpt adds any
> value: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT4uktowa-M__;!!Mih3wA!QwnjuGWv1M4ZX6kMNV7A1nO46fLjKXBSeMFcdiKYZQb3gv2FV78Tq_DhJK9vM5I6A7N0og$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fwww.youtube.com*2Fwatch*3Fv*3DsT4uktowa-M__*3B!!Mih3wA!WLyceskZQL4AGQL-pVuwd-RH-yfvzQvsIVerMU367Nw8BZjwVLHdZ94SZfyfIX_sfjyW7w*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C6f6f52b10ee64d7bfdbd08d7f9d8676f*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637252580239308499&sdata=6UFlX9lSu4veWnKkWZzz5xkeNmlBpBA4ZVtO9I*2FQZpE*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!Mih3wA!R9drsiySNEmllp604wKW_RghL8N-6pKyp0upwIQ08rRyyX4_xUCbMKYtkRxP4LiijCWx3g$> "Pros
> and Cons of (terminological) Diversity"
>
>
>
> As a non-expert, I can empathize with Nikolai's main point, but I'm not so
> sure the cons outweigh the pros here.
>
>
>
> But what WOULD happen if a terminological consensus was formed -- could
> Vygotsky's theory (and methodology), in fact, be definitively defined?  If
> so, would the benefits of doing so outweigh the constraints?
>
> I'm guessing this is an old conversation, and maybe even stale, but I'm
> more outsider than insider and don't really know.
>
>
>
> Thank you for any insight.
>
>
>
> Anthony
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:19 AM Martin Packer <mpacker@cantab.net> wrote:
>
> I had assumed you were looking for uses earlier than Jim Wertsch’s, Andy.
>
>
>
> Jim used the term in titles in 1989 too. And in the introduction to this
> book he, along with Pablo del Rio and Amelia Alvarez, explain why in their
> view it’s the best term:
>
>
>
> Wertsch, J. V., del Río, P., & Alvarez, A. (Eds.). (1995). *Sociocultural
> studies of mind.* Cambridge University Press.
>
>
>
>
>
> Martin
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On May 12, 2020, at 11:13 PM, Andy Blunden <andyb@marxists.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> Thanks to everyone for their help. It all went into the mix. Indeed, the
> term seems to have migrated from Spanish to English and the word
> "sociocultural" became popular in 1990, and it seems that Jim Wertsch is
> the fellow who triggered the explosion in "sociocultural psychology" with "Voices
> of the mind : a sociocultural approach to mediated action
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fwww.worldcat.org*2Ftitle*2Fvoices-of-the-mind-a-sociocultural-approach-to-mediated-action*2Foclc*2F797855062*26referer*3Dbrief_results__*3B!!Mih3wA!WsWX2sD5ZfUnBEp3uLEVG7T0NliMnbPpuJl6VOoxtiFfKP5msJWjbZPFaCQ6jDWDMZtFSg*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C6f6f52b10ee64d7bfdbd08d7f9d8676f*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637252580239318487&sdata=RyYC7QwYVjtVmNNOElr0tESBV*2F5ODtp7cefdZ073l*2Fk*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!Mih3wA!R9drsiySNEmllp604wKW_RghL8N-6pKyp0upwIQ08rRyyX4_xUCbMKYtkRxP4LiHcikE5g$>"
> published by Harvard University Press in 1991.
>
> Although "sociocultural" seems to be most widely associated with "context
> dependence," Wertsch's reference to "mediated action" in the title of this
> book makes it clear that for him "context" referred to the signs and
> artefacts mediating action.
>
> Thanks again to all
>
> Andy
> ------------------------------
>
> *Andy Blunden*
> Hegel for Social Movements
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fbrill.com*2Fview*2Ftitle*2F54574__*3B!!Mih3wA!WsWX2sD5ZfUnBEp3uLEVG7T0NliMnbPpuJl6VOoxtiFfKP5msJWjbZPFaCQ6jDWcr53a1g*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C6f6f52b10ee64d7bfdbd08d7f9d8676f*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637252580239318487&sdata=f*2BBENaDe*2B01ZtIXe1URyQuTqvsZ6p3Xj5G9IJG4yicY*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!Mih3wA!R9drsiySNEmllp604wKW_RghL8N-6pKyp0upwIQ08rRyyX4_xUCbMKYtkRxP4LiFIOsgIw$>
> Home Page
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fwww.ethicalpolitics.org*2Fablunden*2Findex.htm__*3B!!Mih3wA!WsWX2sD5ZfUnBEp3uLEVG7T0NliMnbPpuJl6VOoxtiFfKP5msJWjbZPFaCQ6jDW3ivveVA*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C6f6f52b10ee64d7bfdbd08d7f9d8676f*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637252580239328484&sdata=ef516eOfirI7wrTLZ7jOrE5Q9Kk7z*2FJIutau*2BAVLiw0*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!Mih3wA!R9drsiySNEmllp604wKW_RghL8N-6pKyp0upwIQ08rRyyX4_xUCbMKYtkRxP4LhgkgXJSA$>
>
> On 13/05/2020 12:26 pm, David Kellogg wrote:
>
> Andy--
>
>
>
> Go to to the Google N-gram site itself.
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://books.google.com/ngrams__;!!Mih3wA!QwnjuGWv1M4ZX6kMNV7A1nO46fLjKXBSeMFcdiKYZQb3gv2FV78Tq_DhJK9vM5JQ_gl6jw$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fbooks.google.com*2Fngrams__*3B!!Mih3wA!Wt7qmS7sdvLo3anWG71NQFUJMvyFBqEy-mStjfAI_HEUpY8D8dQt5zHkl12Ld90MDkv2Mw*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C6f6f52b10ee64d7bfdbd08d7f9d8676f*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637252580239328484&sdata=*2FUOgbPpqMQ*2FTsbUl7v8mRG6Kgtvv8aOMRuLTmtsDE5c*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!Mih3wA!R9drsiySNEmllp604wKW_RghL8N-6pKyp0upwIQ08rRyyX4_xUCbMKYtkRxP4LjDYUhIBw$>
>
> Then do your own n-gram for "sociocultural psychology". If you set the
> years you'll get better granularity in the document search.
>
> On the bottom of the n-gram, there are some dates in blue--when you click
> on them, you should get a list of all the books used in the search.
>
>
>
> dk
>
>
>
>
>
>
> David Kellogg
>
> Sangmyung University
>
>
>
> New Article: Ruqaiya Hasan, in memoriam: A manual and a manifesto.
>
> Outlines, Spring 2020
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238/167607__;!!Mih3wA!QwnjuGWv1M4ZX6kMNV7A1nO46fLjKXBSeMFcdiKYZQb3gv2FV78Tq_DhJK9vM5IH1niRwQ$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Ftidsskrift.dk*2Foutlines*2Farticle*2Fview*2F116238*2F167607__*3B!!Mih3wA!Wt7qmS7sdvLo3anWG71NQFUJMvyFBqEy-mStjfAI_HEUpY8D8dQt5zHkl12Ld92Vl0flPg*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C6f6f52b10ee64d7bfdbd08d7f9d8676f*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637252580239328484&sdata=WVLG32RAUDNfblAr7J24arQ7irK0b*2F5e9RQCsOjvQzk*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!Mih3wA!R9drsiySNEmllp604wKW_RghL8N-6pKyp0upwIQ08rRyyX4_xUCbMKYtkRxP4LgqnD3y5g$>
>
>
>
> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: *L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works* *Volume
> One: Foundations of Pedology*"
>
>  https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!QwnjuGWv1M4ZX6kMNV7A1nO46fLjKXBSeMFcdiKYZQb3gv2FV78Tq_DhJK9vM5JySLOtJA$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fwww.springer.com*2Fgp*2Fbook*2F9789811505270__*3B!!Mih3wA!Wt7qmS7sdvLo3anWG71NQFUJMvyFBqEy-mStjfAI_HEUpY8D8dQt5zHkl12Ld92EeQenpA*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C6f6f52b10ee64d7bfdbd08d7f9d8676f*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637252580239338478&sdata=Xvh4gDjnU6LBHc*2Fy899diTP*2B3ghjtUkukR5XMXSC0*2Bk*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!Mih3wA!R9drsiySNEmllp604wKW_RghL8N-6pKyp0upwIQ08rRyyX4_xUCbMKYtkRxP4LgkWxCxmA$>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 11:17 AM Martin Packer <mpacker@cantab.net> wrote:
>
> The earliest use of the term ‘sociocultural’ I’ve been able to find in
> English is this:
>
>
>
> A sociocultural psychology, by Rogelio Diaz-Guerrero
>
>
>
> In "Chicano psychology", 1977 - Academic Press
>
>
>
> Diaz-Guerrero was Mexican psychologists whose publications in Spanish use
> the term ‘sociocultural’ frequently.
>
>
>
> The 2nd edition of Chicano Psychology is available in Google books,
> and Diaz-Guerrero has a chapter in it, but titled The psychological study
> of the Mexican.
>
>
>
> Martin
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On May 12, 2020, at 8:47 PM, Andy Blunden <andyb@marxists.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> That graph from Google shows that usage of the term took off in 1988. How
> do we find out who wrote what in 1988?
>
> And Google also tell us that "Sociocultural theory grew from the work of
> seminal psychologist Lev Vygotsky, who believed that parents, caregivers,
> peers, and the culture at large were responsible for developing
> higher-order functions. According to Vygotsky, learning has its basis in
> interacting with other people," together with a reference. So that is nice.
>
> Andy
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *Andy Blunden*
> Hegel for Social Movements
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fbrill.com*2Fview*2Ftitle*2F54574__*3B!!Mih3wA!XAtiPQXEOK3tz8RHCURqNz0psvv8Js3PxWmYUmHtZyY5j_IK-RqcFDVph7-NJ5i1rCBdtQ*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C6f6f52b10ee64d7bfdbd08d7f9d8676f*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637252580239338478&sdata=qBSVoWIFYYX4P80*2BAGmetGqnFMmaauWgsqlbYxCFCBk*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!Mih3wA!R9drsiySNEmllp604wKW_RghL8N-6pKyp0upwIQ08rRyyX4_xUCbMKYtkRxP4LgyfOHa3A$>
> Home Page
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fwww.ethicalpolitics.org*2Fablunden*2Findex.htm__*3B!!Mih3wA!XAtiPQXEOK3tz8RHCURqNz0psvv8Js3PxWmYUmHtZyY5j_IK-RqcFDVph7-NJ5gDytDZfw*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C6f6f52b10ee64d7bfdbd08d7f9d8676f*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637252580239348475&sdata=SSj*2Fb*2FvjoI*2BCcc6qflhVwBGnUSdOi6u*2FNHu8LONom3w*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!Mih3wA!R9drsiySNEmllp604wKW_RghL8N-6pKyp0upwIQ08rRyyX4_xUCbMKYtkRxP4Lhr4ir5Mw$>
>
> On 13/05/2020 11:30 am, David Kellogg wrote:
>
> Andy:
>
>
>
> I did a Google N-gram on it. You probably thought of doing this too, but
> here's what I got.
>
>
>
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://books.google.com/ngrams/interactive_chart?content=sociocultural*psychology&year_start=1800&year_end=2008&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1*3B*2Csociocultural*20psychology*3B*2Cc0__;KyUlJSUl!!Mih3wA!QwnjuGWv1M4ZX6kMNV7A1nO46fLjKXBSeMFcdiKYZQb3gv2FV78Tq_DhJK9vM5L9GH5oVw$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fbooks.google.com*2Fngrams*2Finteractive_chart*3Fcontent*3Dsociocultural*psychology*26year_start*3D1800*26year_end*3D2008*26corpus*3D15*26smoothing*3D3*26share*3D*26direct_url*3Dt1*3B*2Csociocultural*20psychology*3B*2Cc0__*3BKyUlJSUl!!Mih3wA!T9TXqTQDd-8tvv5PfuxbPkx6Drdw0VlIrRNfcypZApQv2jnziHRkeAppccOVAZEmjetMCg*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C6f6f52b10ee64d7bfdbd08d7f9d8676f*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637252580239348475&sdata=FhIdfQLJp4oYEid9OATTsoYOhr2DgQ3cTpuhbe7osMw*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlKiUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSoqKioqJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!Mih3wA!R9drsiySNEmllp604wKW_RghL8N-6pKyp0upwIQ08rRyyX4_xUCbMKYtkRxP4LgKKkyp5g$>"
> width=900 height=500 marginwidth=0 marginheight=0 hspace=0 vspace=0
> frameborder=0 scrolling=no
>
>
>
> So it all starts around 1960. At first I thought this probably referred to
> the Hanfmann and Vakar "Thought and Language", but when I looked the only
> books that used the term were sports psychology books. The big uptick after
> 1992 is Vygotsky though.
>
>
>
> Of course, this is all English only. I am sure you will find very
> different results in German, where "cultural historical psychology" is the
> trend identified with Dilthey, Spranger, and neo-Kantianism generally.
>
>
>
>
> David Kellogg
>
> Sangmyung University
>
>
>
> New Article: Ruqaiya Hasan, in memoriam: A manual and a manifesto.
>
> Outlines, Spring 2020
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238/167607__;!!Mih3wA!QwnjuGWv1M4ZX6kMNV7A1nO46fLjKXBSeMFcdiKYZQb3gv2FV78Tq_DhJK9vM5IH1niRwQ$ 
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>
>
>
> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: *L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works* *Volume
> One: Foundations of Pedology*"
>
>  https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!QwnjuGWv1M4ZX6kMNV7A1nO46fLjKXBSeMFcdiKYZQb3gv2FV78Tq_DhJK9vM5JySLOtJA$ 
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>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 10:43 PM Andy Blunden <andyb@marxists.org> wrote:
>
> Can anyone tell me when and with whom the term "sociocultural psychology"
> originated?
>
> Andy
>
> --
> ------------------------------
>
> *Andy Blunden*
> Hegel for Social Movements
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fbrill.com*2Fview*2Ftitle*2F54574__*3B!!Mih3wA!WBIr3_zzidcxaloVcp2qUX4U6WR3f7enQ2z2gvamcdo3Ihy82L4ZkR-PgfCDASisbYxsxw*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C6f6f52b10ee64d7bfdbd08d7f9d8676f*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637252580239368456&sdata=i6vvnyWQ*2FWJt3azf9lTxyhKw8pRiZj9NGtNk*2BXVYsH0*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!Mih3wA!R9drsiySNEmllp604wKW_RghL8N-6pKyp0upwIQ08rRyyX4_xUCbMKYtkRxP4LjrP78fag$>
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