[Xmca-l] Re: "sociocultural psychology" ?

Wed May 13 08:05:35 PDT 2020

Interesting question (and follow-ups) here.  Thanks, Andy.

While not 100% related, I wonder if this brief, 2-minute excerpt adds any
value: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT4uktowa-M__;!!Mih3wA!XtZNVFcJmlAepH-seB2QysDcEDyDd1rpEbsNWfBGFVu5g41jJ3ed66DQoM7Nzt4EzW7K6A$  "Pros and Cons of
(terminological) Diversity"

As a non-expert, I can empathize with Nikolai's main point, but I'm not so
sure the cons outweigh the pros here.

But what WOULD happen if a terminological consensus was formed -- could
Vygotsky's theory (and methodology), in fact, be definitively defined?  If
so, would the benefits of doing so outweigh the constraints?
I'm guessing this is an old conversation, and maybe even stale, but I'm
more outsider than insider and don't really know.

Thank you for any insight.

Anthony

On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:19 AM Martin Packer <mpacker@cantab.net> wrote:

> I had assumed you were looking for uses earlier than Jim Wertsch’s, Andy.
>
> Jim used the term in titles in 1989 too. And in the introduction to this
> book he, along with Pablo del Rio and Amelia Alvarez, explain why in their
> view it’s the best term:
>
> Wertsch, J. V., del Río, P., & Alvarez, A. (Eds.). (1995). *Sociocultural
> studies of mind.* Cambridge University Press.
>
>
> Martin
>
>
>
> On May 12, 2020, at 11:13 PM, Andy Blunden <andyb@marxists.org> wrote:
>
> Thanks to everyone for their help. It all went into the mix. Indeed, the
> term seems to have migrated from Spanish to English and the word
> "sociocultural" became popular in 1990, and it seems that Jim Wertsch is
> the fellow who triggered the explosion in "sociocultural psychology" with "Voices
> of the mind : a sociocultural approach to mediated action
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.worldcat.org/title/voices-of-the-mind-a-sociocultural-approach-to-mediated-action/oclc/797855062&referer=brief_results__;!!Mih3wA!WsWX2sD5ZfUnBEp3uLEVG7T0NliMnbPpuJl6VOoxtiFfKP5msJWjbZPFaCQ6jDWDMZtFSg$>"
> published by Harvard University Press in 1991.
>
> Although "sociocultural" seems to be most widely associated with "context
> dependence," Wertsch's reference to "mediated action" in the title of this
> book makes it clear that for him "context" referred to the signs and
> artefacts mediating action.
>
> Thanks again to all
>
> Andy
> ------------------------------
> *Andy Blunden*
> Hegel for Social Movements
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!Mih3wA!WsWX2sD5ZfUnBEp3uLEVG7T0NliMnbPpuJl6VOoxtiFfKP5msJWjbZPFaCQ6jDWcr53a1g$>
> Home Page
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!WsWX2sD5ZfUnBEp3uLEVG7T0NliMnbPpuJl6VOoxtiFfKP5msJWjbZPFaCQ6jDW3ivveVA$>
> On 13/05/2020 12:26 pm, David Kellogg wrote:
>
> Andy--
>
> Go to to the Google N-gram site itself.
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://books.google.com/ngrams__;!!Mih3wA!XtZNVFcJmlAepH-seB2QysDcEDyDd1rpEbsNWfBGFVu5g41jJ3ed66DQoM7Nzt6PgGgH5A$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://books.google.com/ngrams__;!!Mih3wA!Wt7qmS7sdvLo3anWG71NQFUJMvyFBqEy-mStjfAI_HEUpY8D8dQt5zHkl12Ld90MDkv2Mw$>
> Then do your own n-gram for "sociocultural psychology". If you set the
> years you'll get better granularity in the document search.
> On the bottom of the n-gram, there are some dates in blue--when you click
> on them, you should get a list of all the books used in the search.
>
> dk
>
>
>
> David Kellogg
> Sangmyung University
>
> New Article: Ruqaiya Hasan, in memoriam: A manual and a manifesto.
> Outlines, Spring 2020
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238/167607__;!!Mih3wA!XtZNVFcJmlAepH-seB2QysDcEDyDd1rpEbsNWfBGFVu5g41jJ3ed66DQoM7Nzt5EBTb5nQ$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238/167607__;!!Mih3wA!Wt7qmS7sdvLo3anWG71NQFUJMvyFBqEy-mStjfAI_HEUpY8D8dQt5zHkl12Ld92Vl0flPg$>
>
> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: *L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works* *Volume
> One: Foundations of Pedology*"
>  https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!XtZNVFcJmlAepH-seB2QysDcEDyDd1rpEbsNWfBGFVu5g41jJ3ed66DQoM7Nzt5dQj4y8Q$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!Wt7qmS7sdvLo3anWG71NQFUJMvyFBqEy-mStjfAI_HEUpY8D8dQt5zHkl12Ld92EeQenpA$>
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 11:17 AM Martin Packer <mpacker@cantab.net> wrote:
>
>> The earliest use of the term ‘sociocultural’ I’ve been able to find in
>> English is this:
>>
>> A sociocultural psychology, by Rogelio Diaz-Guerrero
>>
>> In "Chicano psychology", 1977 - Academic Press
>>
>> Diaz-Guerrero was Mexican psychologists whose publications in Spanish use
>> the term ‘sociocultural’ frequently.
>>
>> The 2nd edition of Chicano Psychology is available in Google books,
>> and Diaz-Guerrero has a chapter in it, but titled The psychological study
>> of the Mexican.
>>
>> Martin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 12, 2020, at 8:47 PM, Andy Blunden <andyb@marxists.org> wrote:
>>
>> That graph from Google shows that usage of the term took off in 1988. How
>> do we find out who wrote what in 1988?
>>
>> And Google also tell us that "Sociocultural theory grew from the work of
>> seminal psychologist Lev Vygotsky, who believed that parents,
>> caregivers, peers, and the culture at large were responsible for developing
>> higher-order functions. According to Vygotsky, learning has its basis in
>> interacting with other people," together with a reference. So that is nice.
>>
>> Andy
>> ------------------------------
>> *Andy Blunden*
>> Hegel for Social Movements
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!Mih3wA!XAtiPQXEOK3tz8RHCURqNz0psvv8Js3PxWmYUmHtZyY5j_IK-RqcFDVph7-NJ5i1rCBdtQ$>
>> Home Page
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!XAtiPQXEOK3tz8RHCURqNz0psvv8Js3PxWmYUmHtZyY5j_IK-RqcFDVph7-NJ5gDytDZfw$>
>> On 13/05/2020 11:30 am, David Kellogg wrote:
>>
>> Andy:
>>
>> I did a Google N-gram on it. You probably thought of doing this too, but
>> here's what I got.
>>
>>
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://books.google.com/ngrams/interactive_chart?content=sociocultural*psychology&year_start=1800&year_end=2008&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1*3B*2Csociocultural*20psychology*3B*2Cc0__;KyUlJSUl!!Mih3wA!XtZNVFcJmlAepH-seB2QysDcEDyDd1rpEbsNWfBGFVu5g41jJ3ed66DQoM7Nzt5B6f3g6A$ 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://books.google.com/ngrams/interactive_chart?content=sociocultural*psychology&year_start=1800&year_end=2008&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1*3B*2Csociocultural*20psychology*3B*2Cc0__;KyUlJSUl!!Mih3wA!T9TXqTQDd-8tvv5PfuxbPkx6Drdw0VlIrRNfcypZApQv2jnziHRkeAppccOVAZEmjetMCg$>"
>> width=900 height=500 marginwidth=0 marginheight=0 hspace=0 vspace=0
>> frameborder=0 scrolling=no
>>
>> So it all starts around 1960. At first I thought this probably referred
>> to the Hanfmann and Vakar "Thought and Language", but when I looked the
>> only books that used the term were sports psychology books. The big uptick
>> after 1992 is Vygotsky though.
>>
>> Of course, this is all English only. I am sure you will find very
>> different results in German, where "cultural historical psychology" is the
>> trend identified with Dilthey, Spranger, and neo-Kantianism generally.
>>
>>
>> David Kellogg
>> Sangmyung University
>>
>> New Article: Ruqaiya Hasan, in memoriam: A manual and a manifesto.
>> Outlines, Spring 2020
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238/167607__;!!Mih3wA!XtZNVFcJmlAepH-seB2QysDcEDyDd1rpEbsNWfBGFVu5g41jJ3ed66DQoM7Nzt5EBTb5nQ$ 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238/167607__;!!Mih3wA!T9TXqTQDd-8tvv5PfuxbPkx6Drdw0VlIrRNfcypZApQv2jnziHRkeAppccOVAZFjmWjmLg$>
>>
>> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: *L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works* *Volume
>> One: Foundations of Pedology*"
>>  https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!XtZNVFcJmlAepH-seB2QysDcEDyDd1rpEbsNWfBGFVu5g41jJ3ed66DQoM7Nzt5dQj4y8Q$ 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!T9TXqTQDd-8tvv5PfuxbPkx6Drdw0VlIrRNfcypZApQv2jnziHRkeAppccOVAZGMmypSYw$>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 10:43 PM Andy Blunden <andyb@marxists.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Can anyone tell me when and with whom the term "sociocultural
>>> psychology" originated?
>>>
>>> Andy
>>> --
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *Andy Blunden*
>>> Hegel for Social Movements
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!Mih3wA!WBIr3_zzidcxaloVcp2qUX4U6WR3f7enQ2z2gvamcdo3Ihy82L4ZkR-PgfCDASisbYxsxw$>
>>> Home Page
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!WBIr3_zzidcxaloVcp2qUX4U6WR3f7enQ2z2gvamcdo3Ihy82L4ZkR-PgfCDASiXKr5OJw$>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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