From hhdave15@gmail.com Sun Mar 1 19:05:56 2020 From: hhdave15@gmail.com (Harshad Dave) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2020 08:35:56 +0530 Subject: [Xmca-l] Your views will help. Message-ID: Hi all there, We are generally acquainted with use of word "living standard" when we discuss a topic pertaining to human society. Do animals have living standard in wild life system? Or Are animals instinctively conscious about living standard? Your views will help me in my article writing work. Regards, Harshad Dave -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200302/97c3679f/attachment.html From anthonymbarra@gmail.com Thu Mar 5 15:42:53 2020 From: anthonymbarra@gmail.com (Anthony Barra) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2020 18:42:53 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] concepts and Concept Creep Message-ID: I have looked (fruitlessly) through the archives for references to Australian psychologist Nick Haslam's term, concept creep. Can anybody point me to a discussion - preferably Vygotskian in nature - of "concept creep"? I imagine the term would be discussed in relation to concept-development (and the role of social pressures on word-meaning). Thank you in advance. The term is elaborated nicely in this interesting and provocative article from Gurwinder Bhogal: https://rabbitholemag.com/how-progress-blinds-people-to-progress/ Thanks again, Anthony -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200305/db4fd667/attachment.html From dkellogg60@gmail.com Thu Mar 5 16:12:41 2020 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2020 09:12:41 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: concepts and Concept Creep In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Anthony: You will find a MUCH more scientific discussion of conceptual inflation in Vygotsky's "Historical Meaning of the Crisis in Psychology". See especially Section 3. https://www.marxists.org/archive/vygotsky/works/crisis/psycri01.htm#p300 Why do I say that this discussion is more scientific? Consider any English expression with more than two adjectives in front of a noun, e.g. the big black leather handbag a fat old lady those two splendid electric locomotive trains You can see that the farther you are from the noun the more "subjective" the words are. The closer you get to the noun the more "objective" they are. Halliday calls the one closest to the noun the "classifier", and the one that is before it an "epithet". Your article is simpy making the point that when a particular classifier is widely used OUTSIDE a conceptual hierarchy (of categories and subcategories that answer the question "what TYPE of X?") we find it becomes an EPITHET (of qualities that answer the question "How do I feel about X?"). Vygotsky is explaining exactly HOW this happens...and why. To me, that's what science really does! Mike Cole remarks that every pencil carries in its structure a history of writing. I am not so sure about that--tools are a little opaque to me. But I know that every nominal group carries in it a kind of history of its meaning.... David Kellogg Sangmyung University New Article: 'Commentary: On the originality of Vygotsky's "Thought and Word" i in *Mind Culture and Activity* https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1711775 Some free e-prints available at: https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/SK2DR3TYBMJ42MFPYRFY/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1711775 New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 On Fri, Mar 6, 2020 at 8:45 AM Anthony Barra wrote: > I have looked (fruitlessly) through the archives for references to > Australian psychologist Nick Haslam's term, concept creep. > > Can anybody point me to a discussion - preferably Vygotskian in nature - > of "concept creep"? I imagine the term would be discussed in relation to > concept-development (and the role of social pressures on word-meaning). > > Thank you in advance. > > The term is elaborated nicely in this interesting and provocative article > from Gurwinder Bhogal: > https://rabbitholemag.com/how-progress-blinds-people-to-progress/ > > Thanks again, > > Anthony > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200306/ef15a042/attachment.html From anthonymbarra@gmail.com Thu Mar 5 17:11:37 2020 From: anthonymbarra@gmail.com (Anthony Barra) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2020 20:11:37 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: concepts and Concept Creep In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Oh this is awesome, thank you. On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 7:20 PM David Kellogg wrote: > Anthony: > > You will find a MUCH more scientific discussion of conceptual inflation in > Vygotsky's "Historical Meaning of the Crisis in Psychology". See especially > Section 3. > > https://www.marxists.org/archive/vygotsky/works/crisis/psycri01.htm#p300 > > Why do I say that this discussion is more scientific? Consider any English > expression with more than two adjectives in front of a noun, e.g. > > the big black leather handbag > a fat old lady > those two splendid electric locomotive trains > > You can see that the farther you are from the noun the more "subjective" > the words are. The closer you get to the noun the more "objective" they > are. Halliday calls the one closest to the noun the "classifier", and the > one that is before it an "epithet". > > Your article is simpy making the point that when a particular classifier > is widely used OUTSIDE a conceptual hierarchy (of categories and > subcategories that answer the question "what TYPE of X?") we find it > becomes an EPITHET (of qualities that answer the question "How do I feel > about X?"). Vygotsky is explaining exactly HOW this happens...and why. To > me, that's what science really does! > > Mike Cole remarks that every pencil carries in its structure a history of > writing. I am not so sure about that--tools are a little opaque to me. But > I know that every nominal group carries in it a kind of history of its > meaning.... > > > > > > > David Kellogg > Sangmyung University > > New Article: 'Commentary: On the originality of Vygotsky's "Thought and > Word" i > in *Mind Culture and Activity* > https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1711775 > Some free e-prints available at: > > https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/SK2DR3TYBMJ42MFPYRFY/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1711775 > > New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works > Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" > > https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 > > > > On Fri, Mar 6, 2020 at 8:45 AM Anthony Barra > wrote: > >> I have looked (fruitlessly) through the archives for references to >> Australian psychologist Nick Haslam's term, concept creep. >> >> Can anybody point me to a discussion - preferably Vygotskian in nature - >> of "concept creep"? I imagine the term would be discussed in relation to >> concept-development (and the role of social pressures on word-meaning). >> >> Thank you in advance. >> >> The term is elaborated nicely in this interesting and provocative article >> from Gurwinder Bhogal: >> https://rabbitholemag.com/how-progress-blinds-people-to-progress/ >> >> Thanks again, >> >> Anthony >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200305/a7140af8/attachment.html From wagner.schmit@gmail.com Sun Mar 8 07:57:10 2020 From: wagner.schmit@gmail.com (Wagner Luiz Schmit) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 11:57:10 -0300 Subject: [Xmca-l] Zagorsk and consciousness Message-ID: Dear colleagues, Did anybody else tried to replicate or something similar to the Meshcheryakov experiment at Zagorsk with deaf-blind children? Is there any description of the process of education of deaf-blind born children? And is there another discussion on the problem of consciousness in CHAT besides the works of Bakhurst and Mikhailov? Specially taking into account new discoveries in the field of neurology like those described in the book "The conscious instinct" by Michael Gazzaniga? And if anyone has the documentary "Butterflies of Zagorsk" by bbc in good quality, please let me know. Wagner -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200308/638ca651/attachment.html From Peg.Griffin@att.net Sun Mar 8 08:44:27 2020 From: Peg.Griffin@att.net (Peg Griffin, Ph.D.) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 11:44:27 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Zagorsk and consciousness In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000001d5f560$748b2800$5da17800$@att.net> There?s a progress publication green hardcover Meshcheryakov, Alexander. 1974. Awakening to Life: On the Education of Deaf-Blind Children in the Soviet Union. It is about the work done in the Zagorsk school including everyday details. The marxist.org site has it, but the date given there is 1979. Andy would know best about that. https://www.marxists.org/archive/meshcheryakov/awakening/index.htm Peg From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Wagner Luiz Schmit Sent: Sunday, March 8, 2020 10:57 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Zagorsk and consciousness Dear colleagues, Did anybody else tried to replicate or something similar to the Meshcheryakov experiment at Zagorsk with deaf-blind children? Is there any description of the process of education of deaf-blind born children? And is there another discussion on the problem of consciousness in CHAT besides the works of Bakhurst and Mikhailov? Specially taking into account new discoveries in the field of neurology like those described in the book "The conscious instinct" by Michael Gazzaniga? And if anyone has the documentary "Butterflies of Zagorsk" by bbc in good quality, please let me know. Wagner -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200308/b1015551/attachment.html From Peg.Griffin@att.net Sun Mar 8 08:58:00 2020 From: Peg.Griffin@att.net (Peg Griffin, Ph.D.) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 11:58:00 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Zagorsk and consciousness In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000201d5f562$592f2640$0b8d72c0$@att.net> About the second question, I?m sure you already know about the following. Luria?s sort of short book length case studies: The Man with the Shattered World? The Mind of a Mnemonist? And, of course, Luria?s, The Nature of Human Conflicts or Emotion Conflict and Will: An objective study of Organization and Control of Human Behavior. In addition to CHAT people, many neuroscientists work with Luria?s work. Peg From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Wagner Luiz Schmit Sent: Sunday, March 8, 2020 10:57 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Zagorsk and consciousness Dear colleagues, Did anybody else tried to replicate or something similar to the Meshcheryakov experiment at Zagorsk with deaf-blind children? Is there any description of the process of education of deaf-blind born children? And is there another discussion on the problem of consciousness in CHAT besides the works of Bakhurst and Mikhailov? Specially taking into account new discoveries in the field of neurology like those described in the book "The conscious instinct" by Michael Gazzaniga? And if anyone has the documentary "Butterflies of Zagorsk" by bbc in good quality, please let me know. Wagner -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200308/53a31976/attachment.html From Peg.Griffin@att.net Sun Mar 8 09:34:44 2020 From: Peg.Griffin@att.net (Peg Griffin, Ph.D.) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 12:34:44 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Zagorsk and consciousness In-Reply-To: <000201d5f562$592f2640$0b8d72c0$@att.net> References: <000201d5f562$592f2640$0b8d72c0$@att.net> Message-ID: <001201d5f567$7a834ec0$6f89ec40$@att.net> And I meant to say that I thought of Luria?s work because, for me, it always casts ?consciousness? and ?out-of-awareness? each in the revealing light of the other. Might do the same for others? From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Peg Griffin, Ph.D. Sent: Sunday, March 8, 2020 11:58 AM To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Zagorsk and consciousness About the second question, I?m sure you already know about the following. Luria?s sort of short book length case studies: The Man with the Shattered World? The Mind of a Mnemonist? And, of course, Luria?s, The Nature of Human Conflicts or Emotion Conflict and Will: An objective study of Organization and Control of Human Behavior. In addition to CHAT people, many neuroscientists work with Luria?s work. Peg From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Wagner Luiz Schmit Sent: Sunday, March 8, 2020 10:57 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Zagorsk and consciousness Dear colleagues, Did anybody else tried to replicate or something similar to the Meshcheryakov experiment at Zagorsk with deaf-blind children? Is there any description of the process of education of deaf-blind born children? And is there another discussion on the problem of consciousness in CHAT besides the works of Bakhurst and Mikhailov? Specially taking into account new discoveries in the field of neurology like those described in the book "The conscious instinct" by Michael Gazzaniga? And if anyone has the documentary "Butterflies of Zagorsk" by bbc in good quality, please let me know. Wagner -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200308/14e6de2c/attachment.html From tom.richardson3@googlemail.com Sun Mar 8 14:36:17 2020 From: tom.richardson3@googlemail.com (Tom Richardson) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 21:36:17 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Zagorsk and consciousness In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wagner Luiz - not good quality and in Portugese ???? http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x24gaj1 TomRichardson On Sun, 8 Mar 2020 at 15:00, Wagner Luiz Schmit wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > Did anybody else tried to replicate or something similar to the > Meshcheryakov experiment at Zagorsk with deaf-blind children? > > Is there any description of the process of education of deaf-blind born > children? > > And is there another discussion on the problem of consciousness in CHAT > besides the works of Bakhurst and Mikhailov? Specially taking into account > new discoveries in the field of neurology like those described in the book > "The conscious instinct" by Michael Gazzaniga? > > And if anyone has the documentary "Butterflies of Zagorsk" by bbc in good > quality, please let me know. > > Wagner > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200308/cf176458/attachment.html From wagner.schmit@gmail.com Sun Mar 8 16:18:56 2020 From: wagner.schmit@gmail.com (Wagner Luiz Schmit) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 20:18:56 -0300 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Zagorsk and consciousness In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have the Portuguese version, and it seems to be the only one available. The quality is very bad, you can't hear the dialogue sometimes, and the translation is bad to say the least. It is what I have been using in my classes in Brazil, but since it is dubbed in Portuguese I can't share it with non Portuguese speakers. Wagner On Sun, Mar 8, 2020, 18:39 Tom Richardson wrote: > > Wagner Luiz - not good quality and in Portugese ???? > http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x24gaj1 > > TomRichardson > > On Sun, 8 Mar 2020 at 15:00, Wagner Luiz Schmit > wrote: > >> Dear colleagues, >> >> Did anybody else tried to replicate or something similar to the >> Meshcheryakov experiment at Zagorsk with deaf-blind children? >> >> Is there any description of the process of education of deaf-blind born >> children? >> >> And is there another discussion on the problem of consciousness in CHAT >> besides the works of Bakhurst and Mikhailov? Specially taking into account >> new discoveries in the field of neurology like those described in the book >> "The conscious instinct" by Michael Gazzaniga? >> >> And if anyone has the documentary "Butterflies of Zagorsk" by bbc in good >> quality, please let me know. >> >> Wagner >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200308/87ef791d/attachment.html From wagner.schmit@gmail.com Sun Mar 8 16:19:20 2020 From: wagner.schmit@gmail.com (Wagner Luiz Schmit) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 20:19:20 -0300 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Zagorsk and consciousness In-Reply-To: <000001d5f560$748b2800$5da17800$@att.net> References: <000001d5f560$748b2800$5da17800$@att.net> Message-ID: I will read those, thanks! On Sun, Mar 8, 2020, 12:47 Peg Griffin, Ph.D. wrote: > There?s a progress publication green hardcover > > Meshcheryakov, Alexander. 1974. Awakening to Life: On the Education of > Deaf-Blind Children in the Soviet Union. > > It is about the work done in the Zagorsk school including everyday > details. > > The marxist.org site has it, but the date given there is 1979. Andy > would know best about that. > > https://www.marxists.org/archive/meshcheryakov/awakening/index.htm > > > > Peg > > > > *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto: > xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] *On Behalf Of *Wagner Luiz Schmit > *Sent:* Sunday, March 8, 2020 10:57 AM > *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture Activity > *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Zagorsk and consciousness > > > > Dear colleagues, > > > > Did anybody else tried to replicate or something similar to the > Meshcheryakov experiment at Zagorsk with deaf-blind children? > > > > Is there any description of the process of education of deaf-blind born > children? > > > > And is there another discussion on the problem of consciousness in CHAT > besides the works of Bakhurst and Mikhailov? Specially taking into account > new discoveries in the field of neurology like those described in the book > "The conscious instinct" by Michael Gazzaniga? > > > > And if anyone has the documentary "Butterflies of Zagorsk" by bbc in good > quality, please let me know. > > > > Wagner > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200308/eb822b20/attachment.html From wagner.schmit@gmail.com Sun Mar 8 16:21:01 2020 From: wagner.schmit@gmail.com (Wagner Luiz Schmit) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 20:21:01 -0300 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Zagorsk and consciousness In-Reply-To: <000201d5f562$592f2640$0b8d72c0$@att.net> References: <000201d5f562$592f2640$0b8d72c0$@att.net> Message-ID: It seems to me that Mikhailov takes Luria and Leontiev in consideration when discussing the problem of consciousness, I wanted to know if there was something beyond it. But thanks for the indications!! Wagner On Sun, Mar 8, 2020, 13:01 Peg Griffin, Ph.D. wrote: > About the second question, I?m sure you already know about the following. > > Luria?s sort of short book length case studies: > > The Man with the Shattered World? > > The Mind of a Mnemonist? > > And, of course, Luria?s, The Nature of Human Conflicts or Emotion Conflict > and Will: An objective study of Organization and Control of Human Behavior. > > > > In addition to CHAT people, many neuroscientists work with Luria?s work. > > Peg > > *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto: > xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] *On Behalf Of *Wagner Luiz Schmit > *Sent:* Sunday, March 8, 2020 10:57 AM > *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture Activity > *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Zagorsk and consciousness > > > > Dear colleagues, > > > > Did anybody else tried to replicate or something similar to the > Meshcheryakov experiment at Zagorsk with deaf-blind children? > > > > Is there any description of the process of education of deaf-blind born > children? > > > > And is there another discussion on the problem of consciousness in CHAT > besides the works of Bakhurst and Mikhailov? Specially taking into account > new discoveries in the field of neurology like those described in the book > "The conscious instinct" by Michael Gazzaniga? > > > > And if anyone has the documentary "Butterflies of Zagorsk" by bbc in good > quality, please let me know. > > > > Wagner > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200308/52f24aab/attachment.html From mcole@ucsd.edu Sun Mar 8 16:42:00 2020 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 16:42:00 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Zagorsk and consciousness In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wagner, Peg et al - There are several films here: https://www.google.com/search?q=suvorov+blind&oq=suvorov+blind&aqs=chrome..69i57j0.6615j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 I believe that if you write to him, Sasha Suvorov would be glad to help. He has continued to be an active scholar/activist in the Putin era. If you reach him, say hello. :-) mike On Sun, Mar 8, 2020 at 4:22 PM Wagner Luiz Schmit wrote: > I have the Portuguese version, and it seems to be the only one available. > The quality is very bad, you can't hear the dialogue sometimes, and the > translation is bad to say the least. It is what I have been using in my > classes in Brazil, but since it is dubbed in Portuguese I can't share it > with non Portuguese speakers. > > Wagner > > On Sun, Mar 8, 2020, 18:39 Tom Richardson > wrote: > >> >> Wagner Luiz - not good quality and in Portugese ???? >> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x24gaj1 >> >> TomRichardson >> >> On Sun, 8 Mar 2020 at 15:00, Wagner Luiz Schmit >> wrote: >> >>> Dear colleagues, >>> >>> Did anybody else tried to replicate or something similar to the >>> Meshcheryakov experiment at Zagorsk with deaf-blind children? >>> >>> Is there any description of the process of education of deaf-blind born >>> children? >>> >>> And is there another discussion on the problem of consciousness in CHAT >>> besides the works of Bakhurst and Mikhailov? Specially taking into account >>> new discoveries in the field of neurology like those described in the book >>> "The conscious instinct" by Michael Gazzaniga? >>> >>> And if anyone has the documentary "Butterflies of Zagorsk" by bbc in >>> good quality, please let me know. >>> >>> Wagner >>> >>> -- Critique is essential to all democracy. Not only does democracy require the freedom to criticize and need critical impulses. Democracy is nothing less than defined by critique. T.Adorno --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200308/676182af/attachment.html From john.crippsclark@deakin.edu.au Sun Mar 8 17:45:11 2020 From: john.crippsclark@deakin.edu.au (John Cripps Clark) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2020 00:45:11 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Zagorsk and consciousness In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8F8E5C42-89A5-4D98-9B1E-DDDB59DEC87B@deakin.edu.au> Interestingly, both Werner Herzog and Fedrick Wiseman, both prolific documentary fimmakes, have made documentaries about deaf blind people: Herzog?s Land of Silence and Darkness about Fini Straubinger And Wiseman?s Multi-handicapped about the Helen Keller School John From: on behalf of mike cole Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Date: Monday, 9 March 2020 at 10:45 am To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Zagorsk and consciousness Wagner, Peg et al - There are several films here: https://www.google.com/search?q=suvorov+blind&oq=suvorov+blind&aqs=chrome..69i57j0.6615j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 I believe that if you write to him, Sasha Suvorov would be glad to help. He has continued to be an active scholar/activist in the Putin era. If you reach him, say hello. :-) mike On Sun, Mar 8, 2020 at 4:22 PM Wagner Luiz Schmit > wrote: I have the Portuguese version, and it seems to be the only one available. The quality is very bad, you can't hear the dialogue sometimes, and the translation is bad to say the least. It is what I have been using in my classes in Brazil, but since it is dubbed in Portuguese I can't share it with non Portuguese speakers. Wagner On Sun, Mar 8, 2020, 18:39 Tom Richardson > wrote: Wagner Luiz - not good quality and in Portugese ???? http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x24gaj1 TomRichardson On Sun, 8 Mar 2020 at 15:00, Wagner Luiz Schmit > wrote: Dear colleagues, Did anybody else tried to replicate or something similar to the Meshcheryakov experiment at Zagorsk with deaf-blind children? Is there any description of the process of education of deaf-blind born children? And is there another discussion on the problem of consciousness in CHAT besides the works of Bakhurst and Mikhailov? Specially taking into account new discoveries in the field of neurology like those described in the book "The conscious instinct" by Michael Gazzaniga? And if anyone has the documentary "Butterflies of Zagorsk" by bbc in good quality, please let me know. Wagner -- Critique is essential to all democracy. Not only does democracy require the freedom to criticize and need critical impulses. Democracy is nothing less than defined by critique. T.Adorno --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. Important Notice: The contents of this email are intended solely for the named addressee and are confidential; any unauthorised use, reproduction or storage of the contents is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please delete it and any attachments immediately and advise the sender by return email or telephone. Deakin University does not warrant that this email and any attachments are error or virus free. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200309/cb38e167/attachment.html From wagner.schmit@gmail.com Sun Mar 8 18:41:27 2020 From: wagner.schmit@gmail.com (Wagner Luiz Schmit) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 22:41:27 -0300 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Zagorsk and consciousness In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you a lot Professor Cole! Wagner On Sun, Mar 8, 2020, 20:44 mike cole wrote: > Wagner, Peg et al - > > There are several films here: > > https://www.google.com/search?q=suvorov+blind&oq=suvorov+blind&aqs=chrome..69i57j0.6615j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 > > > I believe that if you write to him, Sasha Suvorov would be glad to help. > He has continued to be an active scholar/activist in the Putin era. > If you reach him, say hello. :-) > mike > > > > > On Sun, Mar 8, 2020 at 4:22 PM Wagner Luiz Schmit > wrote: > >> I have the Portuguese version, and it seems to be the only one available. >> The quality is very bad, you can't hear the dialogue sometimes, and the >> translation is bad to say the least. It is what I have been using in my >> classes in Brazil, but since it is dubbed in Portuguese I can't share it >> with non Portuguese speakers. >> >> Wagner >> >> On Sun, Mar 8, 2020, 18:39 Tom Richardson >> wrote: >> >>> >>> Wagner Luiz - not good quality and in Portugese ???? >>> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x24gaj1 >>> >>> TomRichardson >>> >>> On Sun, 8 Mar 2020 at 15:00, Wagner Luiz Schmit >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Dear colleagues, >>>> >>>> Did anybody else tried to replicate or something similar to the >>>> Meshcheryakov experiment at Zagorsk with deaf-blind children? >>>> >>>> Is there any description of the process of education of deaf-blind born >>>> children? >>>> >>>> And is there another discussion on the problem of consciousness in CHAT >>>> besides the works of Bakhurst and Mikhailov? Specially taking into account >>>> new discoveries in the field of neurology like those described in the book >>>> "The conscious instinct" by Michael Gazzaniga? >>>> >>>> And if anyone has the documentary "Butterflies of Zagorsk" by bbc in >>>> good quality, please let me know. >>>> >>>> Wagner >>>> >>>> > > -- > Critique is essential to all democracy. Not only does democracy > require the freedom to criticize and need critical impulses. Democracy is > nothing less than defined by critique. T.Adorno > --------------------------------------------------- > For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other > members of LCHC, visit > lchc.ucsd.edu. For a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit > lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200308/d279e0aa/attachment.html From mcole@ucsd.edu Tue Mar 10 17:16:47 2020 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2020 17:16:47 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Butterfly found Message-ID: Dear Colleagues - Deep in the the unruly and unstable bowels of the lchc website, too deep for google search to have penetrated it appears, is a copy of Butterflies in English. There is a rumor from the archivist, the ever-reliable Bruce Jones that is a copy of a 3/4" version from long ago, but that cannot be confirmed. Below is the secret route. Be sure not to tell anyone. mike http://lchc.ucsd.edu/Movies/Butterflies_of_Zagorsk.mp4 The copy is not great, but it's there. bj -- Critique is essential to all democracy. Not only does democracy require the freedom to criticize and need critical impulses. Democracy is nothing less than defined by critique. T.Adorno --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200310/7ac4b6e5/attachment.html From bferholt@gmail.com Tue Mar 10 20:04:05 2020 From: bferholt@gmail.com (Beth Ferholt) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2020 23:04:05 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Butterfly found In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: After half an hour of watching this I have energy to return to helping my students to figure out how to navigate our college's transition to distance learning when they don't all have computers at home! THANK YOU! Beth On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 8:19 PM mike cole wrote: > Dear Colleagues - > Deep in the the unruly and unstable bowels of the lchc website, too > deep for google search to have penetrated it appears, is a copy of > Butterflies in English. There is a rumor from the archivist, > the ever-reliable Bruce Jones that is a copy of a 3/4" version from long > ago, but that cannot be confirmed. > Below is the secret route. Be sure not to tell anyone. > mike > > http://lchc.ucsd.edu/Movies/Butterflies_of_Zagorsk.mp4 > The copy is not great, but it's there. bj > > -- > Critique is essential to all democracy. Not only does democracy > require the freedom to criticize and need critical impulses. Democracy is > nothing less than defined by critique. T.Adorno > --------------------------------------------------- > For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other > members of LCHC, visit > lchc.ucsd.edu. For a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit > lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. > > > -- Beth Ferholt (pronouns: she/her/hers) Associate Professor Department of Early Childhood and Art Education Brooklyn College, City University of New York 2900 Bedford Avenue Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 Affiliated Faculty, Program in Urban Education, CUNY Graduate Center Affiliated Faculty, School of Education and Communication, J?nk?ping University Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu CC bferholt@gmail.com if writing to CUNY address. Phone: (718) 951-5205 Office: 2306 James Hall -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200310/3ac9d2c1/attachment.html From john.crippsclark@deakin.edu.au Tue Mar 10 23:16:23 2020 From: john.crippsclark@deakin.edu.au (John Cripps Clark) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 06:16:23 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Butterfly found In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5814D6BA-BA4A-4E21-8D16-DDA5A6152623@deakin.edu.au> The State Library of NSW has it ? and the Trove record states it?s in English. On VHS. https://trove.nla.gov.au/work/34379664?q=The+Butterflies+of+Zagorsk&c=music&versionId=42467524 I will try and get a copy to show my students (along with Herzog and Wiseman) John From: on behalf of Beth Ferholt Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Date: Wednesday, 11 March 2020 at 2:00 pm To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Butterfly found After half an hour of watching this I have energy to return to helping my students to figure out how to navigate our college's transition to distance learning when they don't all have computers at home! THANK YOU! Beth On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 8:19 PM mike cole > wrote: Dear Colleagues - Deep in the the unruly and unstable bowels of the lchc website, too deep for google search to have penetrated it appears, is a copy of Butterflies in English. There is a rumor from the archivist, the ever-reliable Bruce Jones that is a copy of a 3/4" version from long ago, but that cannot be confirmed. Below is the secret route. Be sure not to tell anyone. mike http://lchc.ucsd.edu/Movies/Butterflies_of_Zagorsk.mp4 The copy is not great, but it's there. bj -- Critique is essential to all democracy. Not only does democracy require the freedom to criticize and need critical impulses. Democracy is nothing less than defined by critique. T.Adorno --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -- Beth Ferholt (pronouns: she/her/hers) Associate Professor Department of Early Childhood and Art Education Brooklyn College, City University of New York 2900 Bedford Avenue Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 Affiliated Faculty, Program in Urban Education, CUNY Graduate Center Affiliated Faculty, School of Education and Communication, J?nk?ping University Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu CC bferholt@gmail.com if writing to CUNY address. Phone: (718) 951-5205 Office: 2306 James Hall Important Notice: The contents of this email are intended solely for the named addressee and are confidential; any unauthorised use, reproduction or storage of the contents is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please delete it and any attachments immediately and advise the sender by return email or telephone. Deakin University does not warrant that this email and any attachments are error or virus free. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200311/c301bee7/attachment.html From wagner.schmit@gmail.com Wed Mar 11 03:05:07 2020 From: wagner.schmit@gmail.com (Wagner Luiz Schmit) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 07:05:07 -0300 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Butterfly found In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks a lot Professor Cole!!! Wagner On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 9:19 PM mike cole wrote: > Dear Colleagues - > Deep in the the unruly and unstable bowels of the lchc website, too > deep for google search to have penetrated it appears, is a copy of > Butterflies in English. There is a rumor from the archivist, > the ever-reliable Bruce Jones that is a copy of a 3/4" version from long > ago, but that cannot be confirmed. > Below is the secret route. Be sure not to tell anyone. > mike > > http://lchc.ucsd.edu/Movies/Butterflies_of_Zagorsk.mp4 > The copy is not great, but it's there. bj > > -- > Critique is essential to all democracy. Not only does democracy > require the freedom to criticize and need critical impulses. Democracy is > nothing less than defined by critique. T.Adorno > --------------------------------------------------- > For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other > members of LCHC, visit > lchc.ucsd.edu. For a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit > lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200311/921fdde9/attachment.html From julie.waddington@udg.edu Wed Mar 11 03:12:42 2020 From: julie.waddington@udg.edu (JULIE WADDINGTON) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 10:12:42 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Butterfly found In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: Yes, thank you very much for this Professor Cole. We'll be sure not to tell ANYONE :) ________________________________ De: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] en nom de Wagner Luiz Schmit [wagner.schmit@gmail.com] Enviat el: dimecres, 11 / mar? / 2020 11:05 Per a: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Tema: [Xmca-l] Re: Butterfly found Thanks a lot Professor Cole!!! Wagner On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 9:19 PM mike cole > wrote: Dear Colleagues - Deep in the the unruly and unstable bowels of the lchc website, too deep for google search to have penetrated it appears, is a copy of Butterflies in English. There is a rumor from the archivist, the ever-reliable Bruce Jones that is a copy of a 3/4" version from long ago, but that cannot be confirmed. Below is the secret route. Be sure not to tell anyone. mike http://lchc.ucsd.edu/Movies/Butterflies_of_Zagorsk.mp4 The copy is not great, but it's there. bj -- Critique is essential to all democracy. Not only does democracy require the freedom to criticize and need critical impulses. Democracy is nothing less than defined by critique. T.Adorno --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200311/f9439797/attachment.html From anthonymbarra@gmail.com Wed Mar 11 07:31:22 2020 From: anthonymbarra@gmail.com (Anthony Barra) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 10:31:22 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Butterfly found In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Forgive me if this is redundant. Peter Smagorinsky has written interestingly about *Butterflies*, with an emphasis on ZND vs ZPD, in this short paper here: "Deconflating the ZPD and instructional scaffolding: Retranslating and reconceiving the zone of proximal development as the zone of next development" http://www.petersmagorinsky.net/About/PDF/LCSI/LCSI_2018.pdf And if anyone is interested, here is a brief, 2-minute clip of Peter talking about the film and the ZND: "What is the Zone of Next Development?" http://tiny.cc/1qi5kz Thanks ~ Anthony On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 6:15 AM JULIE WADDINGTON wrote: > Yes, thank you *very* much for this Professor Cole. We'll be sure not to > tell ANYONE :) > > > > > > ------------------------------ > *De:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] > en nom de Wagner Luiz Schmit [wagner.schmit@gmail.com] > *Enviat el:* dimecres, 11 / mar? / 2020 11:05 > *Per a:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > *Tema:* [Xmca-l] Re: Butterfly found > > Thanks a lot Professor Cole!!! > > Wagner > > On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 9:19 PM mike cole wrote: > >> Dear Colleagues - >> Deep in the the unruly and unstable bowels of the lchc website, too >> deep for google search to have penetrated it appears, is a copy of >> Butterflies in English. There is a rumor from the archivist, >> the ever-reliable Bruce Jones that is a copy of a 3/4" version from long >> ago, but that cannot be confirmed. >> Below is the secret route. Be sure not to tell anyone. >> mike >> >> http://lchc.ucsd.edu/Movies/Butterflies_of_Zagorsk.mp4 >> The copy is not great, but it's there. bj >> >> -- >> Critique is essential to all democracy. Not only does democracy >> require the freedom to criticize and need critical impulses. Democracy is >> nothing less than defined by critique. T.Adorno >> --------------------------------------------------- >> For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other >> members of LCHC, visit >> lchc.ucsd.edu. For a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit >> lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. >> >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200311/8ba798ef/attachment.html From greg.a.thompson@gmail.com Wed Mar 11 08:15:17 2020 From: greg.a.thompson@gmail.com (Greg Thompson) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 09:15:17 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Butterfly found In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Loved Peter's 2 min presentation on this! (thanks for doing those Anthony!) Also, has anyone written about ZoND (ZoNeD?) in terms of college students? I struggle with this daily as a teacher - trying to understand what the next stage of development is for college students and wondering to myself: What do my students actually NEED? (beyond the credential). Of course it isn't going to just be one thing. And it will surely be contested since, as Peter notes, the ZoND is responsive to the social and institutional contexts that come next. Nonetheless, it seems that there should be some broad strokes that we could sketch out in terms of Zone of Next Development for college students. Any pointers? -greg On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 8:34 AM Anthony Barra wrote: > Forgive me if this is redundant. Peter Smagorinsky has written > interestingly about *Butterflies*, with an emphasis on ZND vs ZPD, in > this short paper here: > "Deconflating the ZPD and instructional scaffolding: Retranslating and > reconceiving the zone of proximal development as the zone of next > development" http://www.petersmagorinsky.net/About/PDF/LCSI/LCSI_2018.pdf > > And if anyone is interested, here is a brief, 2-minute clip of Peter > talking about the film and the ZND: "What is the Zone of Next Development?" > http://tiny.cc/1qi5kz > > Thanks ~ > Anthony > > On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 6:15 AM JULIE WADDINGTON > wrote: > >> Yes, thank you *very* much for this Professor Cole. We'll be sure not to >> tell ANYONE :) >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *De:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] >> en nom de Wagner Luiz Schmit [wagner.schmit@gmail.com] >> *Enviat el:* dimecres, 11 / mar? / 2020 11:05 >> *Per a:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >> *Tema:* [Xmca-l] Re: Butterfly found >> >> Thanks a lot Professor Cole!!! >> >> Wagner >> >> On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 9:19 PM mike cole wrote: >> >>> Dear Colleagues - >>> Deep in the the unruly and unstable bowels of the lchc website, >>> too deep for google search to have penetrated it appears, is a copy of >>> Butterflies in English. There is a rumor from the archivist, >>> the ever-reliable Bruce Jones that is a copy of a 3/4" version from long >>> ago, but that cannot be confirmed. >>> Below is the secret route. Be sure not to tell anyone. >>> mike >>> >>> http://lchc.ucsd.edu/Movies/Butterflies_of_Zagorsk.mp4 >>> The copy is not great, but it's there. bj >>> >>> -- >>> Critique is essential to all democracy. Not only does democracy >>> require the freedom to criticize and need critical impulses. Democracy is >>> nothing less than defined by critique. T.Adorno >>> --------------------------------------------------- >>> For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other >>> members of LCHC, visit >>> lchc.ucsd.edu. For a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit >>> lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. >>> >>> >>> -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200311/d121301a/attachment.html From mcole@ucsd.edu Wed Mar 11 16:37:04 2020 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 16:37:04 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Butterfly found In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: To me the important point in Peter's talk and paper is that the term blizaishi adopted by teachers, owing to the regimes of instruction that they are required to implement (constant testing, etc.) produces a form of "next step," short-term, strategy that denudes the social situation of relevance/interest to the child. LSV, he says, projected the developmental process into the longer-term process of development, say, the first 20 years or so. Evidence that Denis Newman, Peg Griffin, and I collected about 30 years ago indicates that the teacher's with whom we worked were intensely concerned with the challenges that students would face in the coming academic year... We found them selectively focusing on skills in 4th grade that had no special relevance in 4th grade, but became the center of attention in the 5th when particular skills became parts of more complex systems. But the short term focus was, as Peter suggests on the here and now and tomorrow test. An application of these ideas about seeking the short term as a part of the longer term can be found in what Peg Griffen and I called "Field College" at http://lchc.ucsd.edu/Histarch/jl82v4n3.PDF#page=1 . The organization of instruction in the model system we called "Question Asking Reading" at Field College can be in cole-cultural psychology 1996), chapter 9. (I do not have a copy of the chapter. If someone does, please post). Mescheryakov and his mentors converted traditional approaches to the education of the blind-deaf into a long term, immersive life world that made it possible to study development over the long term using principles of cultural-historical psychology. The entire, artificial, world was designed to be a zone of blizhayshi development. The best and most accessible account of this work that I know of can be found here: http://lchc.ucsd.edu/MCA/Mail/xmcamail.2010_04.dir/pdfaj3KKzidoJ.pdf mike On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 8:18 AM Greg Thompson wrote: > Loved Peter's 2 min presentation on this! (thanks for doing those Anthony!) > > Also, has anyone written about ZoND (ZoNeD?) in terms of college students? > I struggle with this daily as a teacher - trying to understand what the > next stage of development is for college students and wondering to myself: > What do my students actually NEED? (beyond the credential). Of course it > isn't going to just be one thing. And it will surely be contested since, as > Peter notes, the ZoND is responsive to the social and institutional > contexts that come next. Nonetheless, it seems that there should be some > broad strokes that we could sketch out in terms of Zone of Next Development > for college students. Any pointers? > > -greg > > > > On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 8:34 AM Anthony Barra > wrote: > >> Forgive me if this is redundant. Peter Smagorinsky has written >> interestingly about *Butterflies*, with an emphasis on ZND vs ZPD, in >> this short paper here: >> "Deconflating the ZPD and instructional scaffolding: Retranslating and >> reconceiving the zone of proximal development as the zone of next >> development" >> http://www.petersmagorinsky.net/About/PDF/LCSI/LCSI_2018.pdf >> >> And if anyone is interested, here is a brief, 2-minute clip of Peter >> talking about the film and the ZND: "What is the Zone of Next Development?" >> http://tiny.cc/1qi5kz >> >> Thanks ~ >> Anthony >> >> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 6:15 AM JULIE WADDINGTON < >> julie.waddington@udg.edu> wrote: >> >>> Yes, thank you *very* much for this Professor Cole. We'll be sure not >>> to tell ANYONE :) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *De:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] >>> en nom de Wagner Luiz Schmit [wagner.schmit@gmail.com] >>> *Enviat el:* dimecres, 11 / mar? / 2020 11:05 >>> *Per a:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>> *Tema:* [Xmca-l] Re: Butterfly found >>> >>> Thanks a lot Professor Cole!!! >>> >>> Wagner >>> >>> On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 9:19 PM mike cole wrote: >>> >>>> Dear Colleagues - >>>> Deep in the the unruly and unstable bowels of the lchc website, >>>> too deep for google search to have penetrated it appears, is a copy of >>>> Butterflies in English. There is a rumor from the archivist, >>>> the ever-reliable Bruce Jones that is a copy of a 3/4" version from >>>> long ago, but that cannot be confirmed. >>>> Below is the secret route. Be sure not to tell anyone. >>>> mike >>>> >>>> http://lchc.ucsd.edu/Movies/Butterflies_of_Zagorsk.mp4 >>>> The copy is not great, but it's there. bj >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Critique is essential to all democracy. Not only does democracy >>>> require the freedom to criticize and need critical impulses. Democracy >>>> is >>>> nothing less than defined by critique. T.Adorno >>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>> For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other >>>> members of LCHC, visit >>>> lchc.ucsd.edu. For a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit >>>> lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. >>>> >>>> >>>> > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > -- Critique is essential to all democracy. Not only does democracy require the freedom to criticize and need critical impulses. Democracy is nothing less than defined by critique. T.Adorno --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200311/c7945607/attachment.html From andyb@marxists.org Wed Mar 11 17:55:00 2020 From: andyb@marxists.org (Andy Blunden) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2020 11:55:00 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Zoped etc In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9480ecef-bd46-3f6d-f95b-2040f4c4a30f@marxists.org> Mike, thanks for that priceless historical article http://lchc.ucsd.edu/Histarch/jl82v4n3.PDF#page=1 . Could you please clarify this sentence for me: "teachers ...were intensely concerned with the challenges that students would face in the coming academic year... but the short term focus was ...the here and now and tomorrow test." So their "intense concern" was contradicted by their "short term focus"? Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ *Andy Blunden* Hegel for Social Movements Home Page On 12/03/2020 10:37 am, mike cole wrote: > To me the important point in Peter's talk and paper is > that the term blizaishi adopted by teachers, owing to the > regimes of instruction?that they are required to implement > (constant testing, etc.) produces a form of "next step," > short-term, strategy that denudes the social?situation of > relevance/interest to the child.? LSV, he says, projected > the developmental process into the longer-term process of > development, say, the first 20 years or so. > > Evidence that Denis Newman, Peg Griffin, and I collected > about 30 years ago indicates that the teacher's with whom > we worked were intensely concerned with the challenges > that students would face in the coming academic year... We > found them selectively focusing on skills in 4th grade > that had no special relevance in 4th grade, but became the > center of attention in the 5th when particular skills > became parts of more complex systems. But the short term > focus was, as Peter suggests on > the here and now and tomorrow test. > > An application?of these ideas about seeking the short term > as a part of the longer term can be found in what Peg > Griffen?and I called "Field College"? at > http://lchc.ucsd.edu/Histarch/jl82v4n3.PDF#page=1?. The > organization of instruction in the model system we called > "Question Asking Reading" at Field College can be in > cole-cultural psychology?1996), chapter 9. (I do not have > a copy of the chapter. If someone does, please post). > > Mescheryakov and his mentors converted traditional > approaches to the education of the blind-deaf into a long > term, immersive life world that made it possible to study > development over the long term using principles of > cultural-historical psychology. The entire, artificial, > world was designed to be a zone of > blizhayshi?development.? The best and most accessible > account of this work that I know of can be found here: > > http://lchc.ucsd.edu/MCA/Mail/xmcamail.2010_04.dir/pdfaj3KKzidoJ.pdf > > > ?mike > > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 8:18 AM Greg Thompson > > wrote: > > Loved Peter's 2 min presentation on this! (thanks for > doing those Anthony!) > > Also, has anyone written about ZoND (ZoNeD?) in terms > of college students? I struggle with this daily as a > teacher - trying to understand what the next stage of > development is for college students and wondering to > myself: What do my students actually NEED? (beyond the > credential). Of course it isn't going to just be one > thing. And it will surely be contested since, as Peter > notes, the ZoND is responsive to the social?and > institutional contexts that come next. Nonetheless, it > seems that there should be some broad strokes that we > could sketch out in terms of Zone of Next Development > for college students. Any pointers? > > -greg > > > > On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 8:34 AM Anthony Barra > > wrote: > > Forgive me if this is redundant.? Peter > Smagorinsky has written interestingly about > /Butterflies/, with an emphasis on ZND vs ZPD, in > this short paper here: > "Deconflating the ZPD and instructional > scaffolding: Retranslating and reconceiving the > zone of proximal development as the zone of next > development" > http://www.petersmagorinsky.net/About/PDF/LCSI/LCSI_2018.pdf > > And if anyone is interested, here is a brief, > 2-minute clip of Peter talking about the film and > the ZND: "What is the Zone of Next Development?" > http://tiny.cc/1qi5kz > > Thanks ~ > Anthony > > On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 6:15 AM JULIE WADDINGTON > > wrote: > > Yes, thank you /very/ much for this Professor > Cole. We'll be sure not to tell ANYONE :) > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > *De:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > [xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > ] en > nom de Wagner Luiz Schmit > [wagner.schmit@gmail.com > ] > *Enviat el:* dimecres, 11 / mar? / 2020 11:05 > *Per a:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > *Tema:* [Xmca-l] Re: Butterfly found > > Thanks a lot Professor Cole!!! > > Wagner > > On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 9:19 PM mike cole > > wrote: > > Dear Colleagues - > ? ? ? Deep in the the unruly and unstable > bowels of the lchc website, too deep for > google search to have penetrated it > appears, is a copy of Butterflies in > English. There is a rumor from the archivist, > the ever-reliable Bruce Jones that is a > copy of a 3/4" version from long ago, but > that cannot be confirmed. > ? ? ?Below is the secret route. Be sure > not to tell anyone. > mike > > http://lchc.ucsd.edu/Movies/Butterflies_of_Zagorsk.mp4 > The copy is not great, but it's there. bj > > -- > Critique is essential to all democracy. > Not only does democracy > require the freedom to criticize and need > critical impulses. Democracy is > nothing less than defined by critique. > T.Adorno > --------------------------------------------------- > For archival resources relevant to the > research of myself and other members of > LCHC, visit > lchc.ucsd.edu .? For > a narrative history of the research of > LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu > . > > > > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > > > > -- > Critique is essential to all democracy. Not only does > democracy > require the freedom to criticize and need critical > impulses. Democracy is > nothing less than defined by critique. T.Adorno > --------------------------------------------------- > For archival resources relevant to the research of myself > and other members of LCHC, visit > lchc.ucsd.edu . For archival > materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, > visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu . > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200312/849ae82e/attachment.html From mcole@ucsd.edu Wed Mar 11 18:14:33 2020 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 18:14:33 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Zoped etc In-Reply-To: <9480ecef-bd46-3f6d-f95b-2040f4c4a30f@marxists.org> References: <9480ecef-bd46-3f6d-f95b-2040f4c4a30f@marxists.org> Message-ID: Nothing arcane, Andy. Take a ubiquitous example: in about third grade or earlier, kids in the us start to learn times tables. The long term goal is to get them ready to deal with division and particularly long division. We observed this orientation to the future curriculum linked to subskills developed in a science-themed curriculum and pretty much any curriculum organized into a hierarchical sequences of levels of conception inclusion, I speculate. At least for experienced teachers. Organizing to bring the future into the present in a way relevant to the students in a standard classroom is a challenge. Ask anyone. :-)) That's why there are teacher education teachers-- to do battle with that challenge. mike On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 5:57 PM Andy Blunden wrote: > Mike, thanks for that priceless historical article > http://lchc.ucsd.edu/Histarch/jl82v4n3.PDF#page=1 . > > Could you please clarify this sentence for me: "teachers ...were intensely > concerned with the challenges that students would face in the coming > academic year... but the short term focus was ...the here and now and > tomorrow test." So their "intense concern" was contradicted by their "short > term focus"? > > Andy > ------------------------------ > *Andy Blunden* > Hegel for Social Movements > Home Page > On 12/03/2020 10:37 am, mike cole wrote: > > To me the important point in Peter's talk and paper is that the term > blizaishi adopted by teachers, owing to the > regimes of instruction that they are required to implement (constant > testing, etc.) produces a form of "next step," > short-term, strategy that denudes the social situation of > relevance/interest to the child. LSV, he says, projected the developmental > process into the longer-term process of development, say, the first 20 > years or so. > > Evidence that Denis Newman, Peg Griffin, and I collected about 30 years > ago indicates that the teacher's with whom > we worked were intensely concerned with the challenges that students would > face in the coming academic year... We found them selectively focusing on > skills in 4th grade that had no special relevance in 4th grade, but became > the center of attention in the 5th when particular skills became parts of > more complex systems. But the short term focus was, as Peter suggests on > the here and now and tomorrow test. > > An application of these ideas about seeking the short term as a part of > the longer term can be found in what Peg Griffen and I called "Field > College" at http://lchc.ucsd.edu/Histarch/jl82v4n3.PDF#page=1 . The > organization of instruction in the model system we called "Question Asking > Reading" at Field College can be in cole-cultural psychology 1996), chapter > 9. (I do not have a copy of the chapter. If someone does, please post). > > Mescheryakov and his mentors converted traditional approaches to the > education of the blind-deaf into a long term, immersive life world that > made it possible to study development over the long term using principles > of cultural-historical psychology. The entire, artificial, world was > designed to be a zone of blizhayshi development. The best and most > accessible account of this work that I know of can be found here: > > http://lchc.ucsd.edu/MCA/Mail/xmcamail.2010_04.dir/pdfaj3KKzidoJ.pdf > > mike > > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 8:18 AM Greg Thompson > wrote: > >> Loved Peter's 2 min presentation on this! (thanks for doing those >> Anthony!) >> >> Also, has anyone written about ZoND (ZoNeD?) in terms of college >> students? I struggle with this daily as a teacher - trying to understand >> what the next stage of development is for college students and wondering to >> myself: What do my students actually NEED? (beyond the credential). Of >> course it isn't going to just be one thing. And it will surely be contested >> since, as Peter notes, the ZoND is responsive to the social and >> institutional contexts that come next. Nonetheless, it seems that there >> should be some broad strokes that we could sketch out in terms of Zone of >> Next Development for college students. Any pointers? >> >> -greg >> >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 8:34 AM Anthony Barra >> wrote: >> >>> Forgive me if this is redundant. Peter Smagorinsky has written >>> interestingly about *Butterflies*, with an emphasis on ZND vs ZPD, in >>> this short paper here: >>> "Deconflating the ZPD and instructional scaffolding: Retranslating and >>> reconceiving the zone of proximal development as the zone of next >>> development" >>> http://www.petersmagorinsky.net/About/PDF/LCSI/LCSI_2018.pdf >>> >>> And if anyone is interested, here is a brief, 2-minute clip of Peter >>> talking about the film and the ZND: "What is the Zone of Next Development?" >>> http://tiny.cc/1qi5kz >>> >>> Thanks ~ >>> Anthony >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 6:15 AM JULIE WADDINGTON < >>> julie.waddington@udg.edu> wrote: >>> >>>> Yes, thank you *very* much for this Professor Cole. We'll be sure not >>>> to tell ANYONE :) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> *De:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] >>>> en nom de Wagner Luiz Schmit [wagner.schmit@gmail.com] >>>> *Enviat el:* dimecres, 11 / mar? / 2020 11:05 >>>> *Per a:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>> *Tema:* [Xmca-l] Re: Butterfly found >>>> >>>> Thanks a lot Professor Cole!!! >>>> >>>> Wagner >>>> >>>> On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 9:19 PM mike cole wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dear Colleagues - >>>>> Deep in the the unruly and unstable bowels of the lchc website, >>>>> too deep for google search to have penetrated it appears, is a copy of >>>>> Butterflies in English. There is a rumor from the archivist, >>>>> the ever-reliable Bruce Jones that is a copy of a 3/4" version from >>>>> long ago, but that cannot be confirmed. >>>>> Below is the secret route. Be sure not to tell anyone. >>>>> mike >>>>> >>>>> http://lchc.ucsd.edu/Movies/Butterflies_of_Zagorsk.mp4 >>>>> The copy is not great, but it's there. bj >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Critique is essential to all democracy. Not only does democracy >>>>> require the freedom to criticize and need critical impulses. Democracy >>>>> is >>>>> nothing less than defined by critique. T.Adorno >>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>> For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other >>>>> members of LCHC, visit >>>>> lchc.ucsd.edu. For a narrative history of the research of LCHC, >>>>> visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >> >> -- >> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >> Assistant Professor >> Department of Anthropology >> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >> Brigham Young University >> Provo, UT 84602 >> WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson >> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >> > > > -- > Critique is essential to all democracy. Not only does democracy > require the freedom to criticize and need critical impulses. Democracy is > nothing less than defined by critique. T.Adorno > --------------------------------------------------- > For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other > members of LCHC, visit > lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the > research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. > > > -- Critique is essential to all democracy. Not only does democracy require the freedom to criticize and need critical impulses. Democracy is nothing less than defined by critique. T.Adorno --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200311/885b7aca/attachment.html From dkellogg60@gmail.com Wed Mar 11 19:40:37 2020 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2020 11:40:37 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Zoped etc In-Reply-To: <9480ecef-bd46-3f6d-f95b-2040f4c4a30f@marxists.org> References: <9480ecef-bd46-3f6d-f95b-2040f4c4a30f@marxists.org> Message-ID: The French translation selected by the late, much missed Francoise Seve for her French translation of Thinking and Speech was "zone prochaine de developpement" (the NEXT zone of development). This translation isn't perfect either, because it suggests (in French) that the learner is not in the zone yet, and so encourages us to think of the zone as the next age-level or age-period rather than the zone connecting the learner with that next age-level or age-period. But it does have the great advantage of making it clear that the ZPD is designed to be used with a periodization scheme that measures development and not learning merely. Much more on this when MCA publishes the upcoming special issue on the Geneva conference held around the French translation of Vygotsky's pedological works. I still think that the very best thing on this problem was a paper written by Peg and Mike back in days of yore. Griffin, P. and Cole, M. (1984). Current Activity for the Future: The Zo-ped. In B. Rogoff and J.V. Wertsch (eds.) Children's Learning in the Zone of Proximal Development. In W. Damon (ed.) New Directions for Child Development. Josey-Bass: San Francisco, Washington, and London. pp. 45-64. That was really how I first twigged that the distinction between "teaching-and-learning" and "development", that Vygotsky so insisted on in the ZPD, was being completely occulted. David Kellogg Sangmyung University New Article: 'Commentary: On the originality of Vygotsky's "Thought and Word" i in *Mind Culture and Activity* https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1711775 Some free e-prints available at: https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/SK2DR3TYBMJ42MFPYRFY/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1711775 New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 9:57 AM Andy Blunden wrote: > Mike, thanks for that priceless historical article > http://lchc.ucsd.edu/Histarch/jl82v4n3.PDF#page=1 . > > Could you please clarify this sentence for me: "teachers ...were intensely > concerned with the challenges that students would face in the coming > academic year... but the short term focus was ...the here and now and > tomorrow test." So their "intense concern" was contradicted by their "short > term focus"? > > Andy > ------------------------------ > *Andy Blunden* > Hegel for Social Movements > Home Page > On 12/03/2020 10:37 am, mike cole wrote: > > To me the important point in Peter's talk and paper is that the term > blizaishi adopted by teachers, owing to the > regimes of instruction that they are required to implement (constant > testing, etc.) produces a form of "next step," > short-term, strategy that denudes the social situation of > relevance/interest to the child. LSV, he says, projected the developmental > process into the longer-term process of development, say, the first 20 > years or so. > > Evidence that Denis Newman, Peg Griffin, and I collected about 30 years > ago indicates that the teacher's with whom > we worked were intensely concerned with the challenges that students would > face in the coming academic year... We found them selectively focusing on > skills in 4th grade that had no special relevance in 4th grade, but became > the center of attention in the 5th when particular skills became parts of > more complex systems. But the short term focus was, as Peter suggests on > the here and now and tomorrow test. > > An application of these ideas about seeking the short term as a part of > the longer term can be found in what Peg Griffen and I called "Field > College" at http://lchc.ucsd.edu/Histarch/jl82v4n3.PDF#page=1 . The > organization of instruction in the model system we called "Question Asking > Reading" at Field College can be in cole-cultural psychology 1996), chapter > 9. (I do not have a copy of the chapter. If someone does, please post). > > Mescheryakov and his mentors converted traditional approaches to the > education of the blind-deaf into a long term, immersive life world that > made it possible to study development over the long term using principles > of cultural-historical psychology. The entire, artificial, world was > designed to be a zone of blizhayshi development. The best and most > accessible account of this work that I know of can be found here: > > http://lchc.ucsd.edu/MCA/Mail/xmcamail.2010_04.dir/pdfaj3KKzidoJ.pdf > > mike > > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 8:18 AM Greg Thompson > wrote: > >> Loved Peter's 2 min presentation on this! (thanks for doing those >> Anthony!) >> >> Also, has anyone written about ZoND (ZoNeD?) in terms of college >> students? I struggle with this daily as a teacher - trying to understand >> what the next stage of development is for college students and wondering to >> myself: What do my students actually NEED? (beyond the credential). Of >> course it isn't going to just be one thing. And it will surely be contested >> since, as Peter notes, the ZoND is responsive to the social and >> institutional contexts that come next. Nonetheless, it seems that there >> should be some broad strokes that we could sketch out in terms of Zone of >> Next Development for college students. Any pointers? >> >> -greg >> >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 8:34 AM Anthony Barra >> wrote: >> >>> Forgive me if this is redundant. Peter Smagorinsky has written >>> interestingly about *Butterflies*, with an emphasis on ZND vs ZPD, in >>> this short paper here: >>> "Deconflating the ZPD and instructional scaffolding: Retranslating and >>> reconceiving the zone of proximal development as the zone of next >>> development" >>> http://www.petersmagorinsky.net/About/PDF/LCSI/LCSI_2018.pdf >>> >>> And if anyone is interested, here is a brief, 2-minute clip of Peter >>> talking about the film and the ZND: "What is the Zone of Next Development?" >>> http://tiny.cc/1qi5kz >>> >>> Thanks ~ >>> Anthony >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 6:15 AM JULIE WADDINGTON < >>> julie.waddington@udg.edu> wrote: >>> >>>> Yes, thank you *very* much for this Professor Cole. We'll be sure not >>>> to tell ANYONE :) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> *De:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] >>>> en nom de Wagner Luiz Schmit [wagner.schmit@gmail.com] >>>> *Enviat el:* dimecres, 11 / mar? / 2020 11:05 >>>> *Per a:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>> *Tema:* [Xmca-l] Re: Butterfly found >>>> >>>> Thanks a lot Professor Cole!!! >>>> >>>> Wagner >>>> >>>> On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 9:19 PM mike cole wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dear Colleagues - >>>>> Deep in the the unruly and unstable bowels of the lchc website, >>>>> too deep for google search to have penetrated it appears, is a copy of >>>>> Butterflies in English. There is a rumor from the archivist, >>>>> the ever-reliable Bruce Jones that is a copy of a 3/4" version from >>>>> long ago, but that cannot be confirmed. >>>>> Below is the secret route. Be sure not to tell anyone. >>>>> mike >>>>> >>>>> http://lchc.ucsd.edu/Movies/Butterflies_of_Zagorsk.mp4 >>>>> The copy is not great, but it's there. bj >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Critique is essential to all democracy. Not only does democracy >>>>> require the freedom to criticize and need critical impulses. Democracy >>>>> is >>>>> nothing less than defined by critique. T.Adorno >>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>> For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other >>>>> members of LCHC, visit >>>>> lchc.ucsd.edu. For a narrative history of the research of LCHC, >>>>> visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >> >> -- >> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >> Assistant Professor >> Department of Anthropology >> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >> Brigham Young University >> Provo, UT 84602 >> WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson >> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >> > > > -- > Critique is essential to all democracy. Not only does democracy > require the freedom to criticize and need critical impulses. Democracy is > nothing less than defined by critique. T.Adorno > --------------------------------------------------- > For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other > members of LCHC, visit > lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the > research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200312/1be2ebe1/attachment-0001.html From Peg.Griffin@att.net Wed Mar 11 20:12:49 2020 From: Peg.Griffin@att.net (Peg Griffin, Ph.D.) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 23:12:49 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Butterfly found In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001801d5f81c$2b44ce80$81ce6b80$@att.net> Thanks for posting the field college edition of the newsletter, Mike. It is fun to thumb through it. I remember someone, I think it was Marge Martus, seeing all the activity in that hall we worked in and saying she didn?t see one child off task. Well, I said, if anyone was off task it would be like being in a rainstorm trying to dodge rain drops. We wanted to give away the teacher/experimenter privilege of giving the question and leaving only the response part for the child. If we couldn?t do that we would never see the children being under the control of the whole task. The child had to find/construct the task and the response; if it was public & open to collaboration with us we had a good chance of figuring out what both parts were and good reason to trust that the ?responses? were valid, not false positives or false negatives. Some of those little psyches were quite interesting task masters! Unusually kind, too, often nagging some ones of us to help out other ones of us who were working hard to keep up with the kids. It was good to see the spirits of Ann and Joe (and the much maligned Janet video). Pupeg From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2020 7:37 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Butterfly found To me the important point in Peter's talk and paper is that the term blizaishi adopted by teachers, owing to the regimes of instruction that they are required to implement (constant testing, etc.) produces a form of "next step," short-term, strategy that denudes the social situation of relevance/interest to the child. LSV, he says, projected the developmental process into the longer-term process of development, say, the first 20 years or so. Evidence that Denis Newman, Peg Griffin, and I collected about 30 years ago indicates that the teacher's with whom we worked were intensely concerned with the challenges that students would face in the coming academic year... We found them selectively focusing on skills in 4th grade that had no special relevance in 4th grade, but became the center of attention in the 5th when particular skills became parts of more complex systems. But the short term focus was, as Peter suggests on the here and now and tomorrow test. An application of these ideas about seeking the short term as a part of the longer term can be found in what Peg Griffen and I called "Field College" at http://lchc.ucsd.edu/Histarch/jl82v4n3.PDF#page=1 . The organization of instruction in the model system we called "Question Asking Reading" at Field College can be in cole-cultural psychology 1996), chapter 9. (I do not have a copy of the chapter. If someone does, please post). Mescheryakov and his mentors converted traditional approaches to the education of the blind-deaf into a long term, immersive life world that made it possible to study development over the long term using principles of cultural-historical psychology. The entire, artificial, world was designed to be a zone of blizhayshi development. The best and most accessible account of this work that I know of can be found here: http://lchc.ucsd.edu/MCA/Mail/xmcamail.2010_04.dir/pdfaj3KKzidoJ.pdf mike On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 8:18 AM Greg Thompson > wrote: Loved Peter's 2 min presentation on this! (thanks for doing those Anthony!) Also, has anyone written about ZoND (ZoNeD?) in terms of college students? I struggle with this daily as a teacher - trying to understand what the next stage of development is for college students and wondering to myself: What do my students actually NEED? (beyond the credential). Of course it isn't going to just be one thing. And it will surely be contested since, as Peter notes, the ZoND is responsive to the social and institutional contexts that come next. Nonetheless, it seems that there should be some broad strokes that we could sketch out in terms of Zone of Next Development for college students. Any pointers? -greg On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 8:34 AM Anthony Barra > wrote: Forgive me if this is redundant. Peter Smagorinsky has written interestingly about Butterflies, with an emphasis on ZND vs ZPD, in this short paper here: "Deconflating the ZPD and instructional scaffolding: Retranslating and reconceiving the zone of proximal development as the zone of next development" http://www.petersmagorinsky.net/About/PDF/LCSI/LCSI_2018.pdf And if anyone is interested, here is a brief, 2-minute clip of Peter talking about the film and the ZND: "What is the Zone of Next Development?" http://tiny.cc/1qi5kz Thanks ~ Anthony On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 6:15 AM JULIE WADDINGTON > wrote: Yes, thank you very much for this Professor Cole. We'll be sure not to tell ANYONE :) _____ De: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [ xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] en nom de Wagner Luiz Schmit [ wagner.schmit@gmail.com] Enviat el: dimecres, 11 / mar? / 2020 11:05 Per a: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Tema: [Xmca-l] Re: Butterfly found Thanks a lot Professor Cole!!! Wagner On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 9:19 PM mike cole > wrote: Dear Colleagues - Deep in the the unruly and unstable bowels of the lchc website, too deep for google search to have penetrated it appears, is a copy of Butterflies in English. There is a rumor from the archivist, the ever-reliable Bruce Jones that is a copy of a 3/4" version from long ago, but that cannot be confirmed. Below is the secret route. Be sure not to tell anyone. mike http://lchc.ucsd.edu/Movies/Butterflies_of_Zagorsk.mp4 The copy is not great, but it's there. bj -- Critique is essential to all democracy. Not only does democracy require the freedom to criticize and need critical impulses. Democracy is nothing less than defined by critique T.Adorno --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson -- Critique is essential to all democracy. Not only does democracy require the freedom to criticize and need critical impulses. Democracy is nothing less than defined by critique. T.Adorno --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200311/60cb324b/attachment.html From bronwynparkin18@gmail.com Wed Mar 11 21:33:43 2020 From: bronwynparkin18@gmail.com (Bronwyn Parkin) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2020 15:03:43 +1030 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Zoped etc In-Reply-To: References: <9480ecef-bd46-3f6d-f95b-2040f4c4a30f@marxists.org> Message-ID: <015d01d5f827$6b69b380$423d1a80$@gmail.com> Thanks all for the links to the historical documents, and the start-up of a discussion about a topic that is central to the work of my colleague Helen Harper in primary level schools. The ZPD is perceived in Australian schools as being ?just beyond? what the child can do, and scaffolding is often misunderstood as what Lundgren called ?piloting?: nudging the ship into harbor with no need for shared understanding of goals or processes. Even worse than next-day learning, scaffolding in the ZPD has been reduced to whatever can happen in one lesson: ?I do ? we do ? you do?. There is a perception that every child has their own ZPD, and an individual and finite point of next learning. This leads to crazy teaching and learning practices where the teacher tries to differentiate for each child ( or more realistically groups of children) by planning different tasks at each point of need for each child. This is impossible. Consequently, the teacher can spend the whole lesson running around trying to manage the groups, keep them on task, replacing the far more important role of mediator of learning. The result is a lot of what we can call ?shoosh and colour?. An added complexity in our context of working with Indigenous students is the political nature of new cultural learning which is not always an easy fit with the world views of other cultural groups. The mandate to teach western science and mathematics is still questioned in some contexts. Nevertheless, we continue to investigate how to effectively apprentice students into scientific thinking which is so necessary for active citizenship in the 21st century. So how do we scaffold the longer term development of students in science? We work with the whole class to develop intersubjectivity around the topic and share the goal. We continue to orient students to the activity system of science using language like ?let?s observe that closely like a scientist does? and ?can we explain that like a scientist?. We explicitly teach the language required, talking about ?powering up? and ?powering down? from every-day language to the abstract and back again. We map scientific language, both vocabulary and grammar onto hands-on activity, and gradually shift the activity, from concrete to three-dimensional representations to language plus diagrams. One of the most important pedagogic strategies is joint construction of texts. For many of our students, the language required to sound scientifically authoritative is way beyond their independent capacity, so we jointly construct oral and written texts; definitions, information reports and explanations together, with the students offering what they can, and the teacher filling in the other bits. Through ?shared pen?, and then grammatical analysis, we provide students with the resources to eventually take control themselves, although that may take months. In case anyone is interested, here?s our last research report 2017. Scaffolding academic language with educationally marginalised students. Regards Bronwyn Parkin From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu On Behalf Of mike cole Sent: Thursday, 12 March 2020 11:45 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Zoped etc Nothing arcane, Andy. Take a ubiquitous example: in about third grade or earlier, kids in the us start to learn times tables. The long term goal is to get them ready to deal with division and particularly long division. We observed this orientation to the future curriculum linked to subskills developed in a science-themed curriculum and pretty much any curriculum organized into a hierarchical sequences of levels of conception inclusion, I speculate. At least for experienced teachers. Organizing to bring the future into the present in a way relevant to the students in a standard classroom is a challenge. Ask anyone. :-)) That's why there are teacher education teachers-- to do battle with that challenge. mike On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 5:57 PM Andy Blunden > wrote: Mike, thanks for that priceless historical article http://lchc.ucsd.edu/Histarch/jl82v4n3.PDF#page=1 . Could you please clarify this sentence for me: "teachers ...were intensely concerned with the challenges that students would face in the coming academic year... but the short term focus was ...the here and now and tomorrow test." So their "intense concern" was contradicted by their "short term focus"? Andy _____ Andy Blunden Hegel for Social Movements Home Page On 12/03/2020 10:37 am, mike cole wrote: To me the important point in Peter's talk and paper is that the term blizaishi adopted by teachers, owing to the regimes of instruction that they are required to implement (constant testing, etc.) produces a form of "next step," short-term, strategy that denudes the social situation of relevance/interest to the child. LSV, he says, projected the developmental process into the longer-term process of development, say, the first 20 years or so. Evidence that Denis Newman, Peg Griffin, and I collected about 30 years ago indicates that the teacher's with whom we worked were intensely concerned with the challenges that students would face in the coming academic year... We found them selectively focusing on skills in 4th grade that had no special relevance in 4th grade, but became the center of attention in the 5th when particular skills became parts of more complex systems. But the short term focus was, as Peter suggests on the here and now and tomorrow test. An application of these ideas about seeking the short term as a part of the longer term can be found in what Peg Griffen and I called "Field College" at http://lchc.ucsd.edu/Histarch/jl82v4n3.PDF#page=1 . The organization of instruction in the model system we called "Question Asking Reading" at Field College can be in cole-cultural psychology 1996), chapter 9. (I do not have a copy of the chapter. If someone does, please post). Mescheryakov and his mentors converted traditional approaches to the education of the blind-deaf into a long term, immersive life world that made it possible to study development over the long term using principles of cultural-historical psychology. The entire, artificial, world was designed to be a zone of blizhayshi development. The best and most accessible account of this work that I know of can be found here: http://lchc.ucsd.edu/MCA/Mail/xmcamail.2010_04.dir/pdfaj3KKzidoJ.pdf mike On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 8:18 AM Greg Thompson > wrote: Loved Peter's 2 min presentation on this! (thanks for doing those Anthony!) Also, has anyone written about ZoND (ZoNeD?) in terms of college students? I struggle with this daily as a teacher - trying to understand what the next stage of development is for college students and wondering to myself: What do my students actually NEED? (beyond the credential). Of course it isn't going to just be one thing. And it will surely be contested since, as Peter notes, the ZoND is responsive to the social and institutional contexts that come next. Nonetheless, it seems that there should be some broad strokes that we could sketch out in terms of Zone of Next Development for college students. Any pointers? -greg On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 8:34 AM Anthony Barra > wrote: Forgive me if this is redundant. Peter Smagorinsky has written interestingly about Butterflies, with an emphasis on ZND vs ZPD, in this short paper here: "Deconflating the ZPD and instructional scaffolding: Retranslating and reconceiving the zone of proximal development as the zone of next development" http://www.petersmagorinsky.net/About/PDF/LCSI/LCSI_2018.pdf And if anyone is interested, here is a brief, 2-minute clip of Peter talking about the film and the ZND: "What is the Zone of Next Development?" http://tiny.cc/1qi5kz Thanks ~ Anthony On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 6:15 AM JULIE WADDINGTON > wrote: Yes, thank you very much for this Professor Cole. We'll be sure not to tell ANYONE :) _____ De: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [ xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] en nom de Wagner Luiz Schmit [ wagner.schmit@gmail.com] Enviat el: dimecres, 11 / mar? / 2020 11:05 Per a: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Tema: [Xmca-l] Re: Butterfly found Thanks a lot Professor Cole!!! Wagner On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 9:19 PM mike cole < mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote: Dear Colleagues - Deep in the the unruly and unstable bowels of the lchc website, too deep for google search to have penetrated it appears, is a copy of Butterflies in English. There is a rumor from the archivist, the ever-reliable Bruce Jones that is a copy of a 3/4" version from long ago, but that cannot be confirmed. Below is the secret route. Be sure not to tell anyone. mike http://lchc.ucsd.edu/Movies/Butterflies_of_Zagorsk.mp4 The copy is not great, but it's there. bj -- Critique is essential to all democracy. Not only does democracy require the freedom to criticize and need critical impulses. Democracy is nothing less than defined by critique. T.Adorno --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson -- Critique is essential to all democracy. Not only does democracy require the freedom to criticize and need critical impulses. Democracy is nothing less than defined by critique. T.Adorno --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -- Critique is essential to all democracy. Not only does democracy require the freedom to criticize and need critical impulses. Democracy is nothing less than defined by critique. T.Adorno --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200312/44fb1577/attachment.html From huw.softdesigns@gmail.com Thu Mar 12 03:03:11 2020 From: huw.softdesigns@gmail.com (Huw Lloyd) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2020 10:03:11 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Butterfly found In-Reply-To: <001801d5f81c$2b44ce80$81ce6b80$@att.net> References: <001801d5f81c$2b44ce80$81ce6b80$@att.net> Message-ID: The audio quality on the clip with Peter is good. It is nice to see short videos that engage with thinking and rumination and yet still remain clear, rather than, say, giving a monologue without the basis in experience. Regarding ZPD/ZND and identifying the child's / agent's task, a central theme of a large project I have worked on (for about 5 years on and off) is a study of active orientation. In this study I seek to identify and measure the active orientation (intention) of the agent. This entails an integrated appreciation for cognition, task-based activity, affect, scope of attention, complexity of task, and the basis of reorganisation (of cognition). A good reason for measuring active orientation is that if this "invisible" element can be made explicit, it can then be used to insist upon institutional changes to provide more space, support, and challenges for developmental processes. I now have this all written up and am waiting for a window in my wife's schedule for some proof reading, before I post them online. If this is deemed to be useful, the next logical step would be for a peer review of some kind to make it more formal. Best, Huw On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 at 03:15, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. wrote: > Thanks for posting the field college edition of the newsletter, Mike. > > It is fun to thumb through it. > > I remember someone, I think it was Marge Martus, seeing all the activity > in that hall we worked in and saying she didn?t see one child off task. > Well, I said, if anyone was off task it would be like being in a rainstorm > trying to dodge rain drops. > > > > We wanted to give away the teacher/experimenter privilege of giving the > question and leaving only the response part for the child. If we couldn?t > do that we would never see the children being under the control of the > whole task. The child had to find/construct the task and the response; if > it was public & open to collaboration with us we had a good chance of > figuring out what both parts were and good reason to trust that the > ?responses? were valid, not false positives or false negatives. Some of > those little psyches were quite interesting task masters! Unusually kind, > too, often nagging some ones of us to help out other ones of us who were > working hard to keep up with the kids. > > > > It was good to see the spirits of Ann and Joe (and the much maligned Janet > video). > > Pupeg > > > > *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto: > xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] *On Behalf Of *mike cole > *Sent:* Wednesday, March 11, 2020 7:37 PM > *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: Butterfly found > > > > To me the important point in Peter's talk and paper is that the term > blizaishi adopted by teachers, owing to the > > regimes of instruction that they are required to implement (constant > testing, etc.) produces a form of "next step," > > short-term, strategy that denudes the social situation of > relevance/interest to the child. LSV, he says, projected the developmental > process into the longer-term process of development, say, the first 20 > years or so. > > > > Evidence that Denis Newman, Peg Griffin, and I collected about 30 years > ago indicates that the teacher's with whom > > we worked were intensely concerned with the challenges that students would > face in the coming academic year... We found them selectively focusing on > skills in 4th grade that had no special relevance in 4th grade, but became > the center of attention in the 5th when particular skills became parts of > more complex systems. But the short term focus was, as Peter suggests on > > the here and now and tomorrow test. > > > > An application of these ideas about seeking the short term as a part of > the longer term can be found in what Peg Griffen and I called "Field > College" at http://lchc.ucsd.edu/Histarch/jl82v4n3.PDF#page=1 . The > organization of instruction in the model system we called "Question Asking > Reading" at Field College can be in cole-cultural psychology 1996), chapter > 9. (I do not have a copy of the chapter. If someone does, please post). > > > > Mescheryakov and his mentors converted traditional approaches to the > education of the blind-deaf into a long term, immersive life world that > made it possible to study development over the long term using principles > of cultural-historical psychology. The entire, artificial, world was > designed to be a zone of blizhayshi development. The best and most > accessible account of this work that I know of can be found here: > > > > http://lchc.ucsd.edu/MCA/Mail/xmcamail.2010_04.dir/pdfaj3KKzidoJ.pdf > > > > mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 8:18 AM Greg Thompson > wrote: > > Loved Peter's 2 min presentation on this! (thanks for doing those Anthony!) > > > > Also, has anyone written about ZoND (ZoNeD?) in terms of college students? > I struggle with this daily as a teacher - trying to understand what the > next stage of development is for college students and wondering to myself: > What do my students actually NEED? (beyond the credential). Of course it > isn't going to just be one thing. And it will surely be contested since, as > Peter notes, the ZoND is responsive to the social and institutional > contexts that come next. Nonetheless, it seems that there should be some > broad strokes that we could sketch out in terms of Zone of Next Development > for college students. Any pointers? > > > > -greg > > > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 8:34 AM Anthony Barra > wrote: > > Forgive me if this is redundant. Peter Smagorinsky has written > interestingly about *Butterflies*, with an emphasis on ZND vs ZPD, in > this short paper here: > > "Deconflating the ZPD and instructional scaffolding: Retranslating and > reconceiving the zone of proximal development as the zone of next > development" http://www.petersmagorinsky.net/About/PDF/LCSI/LCSI_2018.pdf > > > > And if anyone is interested, here is a brief, 2-minute clip of Peter > talking about the film and the ZND: "What is the Zone of Next Development?" > http://tiny.cc/1qi5kz > > > > Thanks ~ > > Anthony > > > > On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 6:15 AM JULIE WADDINGTON > wrote: > > Yes, thank you *very* much for this Professor Cole. We'll be sure not to > tell ANYONE :) > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *De:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] > en nom de Wagner Luiz Schmit [wagner.schmit@gmail.com] > *Enviat el:* dimecres, 11 / mar? / 2020 11:05 > *Per a:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > *Tema:* [Xmca-l] Re: Butterfly found > > Thanks a lot Professor Cole!!! > > > > Wagner > > > > On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 9:19 PM mike cole wrote: > > Dear Colleagues - > > Deep in the the unruly and unstable bowels of the lchc website, too > deep for google search to have penetrated it appears, is a copy of > Butterflies in English. There is a rumor from the archivist, > > the ever-reliable Bruce Jones that is a copy of a 3/4" version from long > ago, but that cannot be confirmed. > > Below is the secret route. Be sure not to tell anyone. > > mike > > > > http://lchc.ucsd.edu/Movies/Butterflies_of_Zagorsk.mp4 > The copy is not great, but it's there. bj > > > > -- > > Critique is essential to all democracy. Not only does democracy > > require the freedom to criticize and need critical impulses. Democracy is > > nothing less than defined by critique T.Adorno > > --------------------------------------------------- > > For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other > members of LCHC, visit > > lchc.ucsd.edu. For a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit > lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. > > > > > > > > > -- > > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > > Assistant Professor > > Department of Anthropology > > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > > Brigham Young University > > Provo, UT 84602 > > WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > > > > > -- > > Critique is essential to all democracy. Not only does democracy > > require the freedom to criticize and need critical impulses. Democracy is > > nothing less than defined by critique. T.Adorno > > --------------------------------------------------- > > For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other > members of LCHC, visit > > lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the > research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200312/e842b22b/attachment.html From mcole@ucsd.edu Thu Mar 12 10:32:42 2020 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2020 10:32:42 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Butterfly found In-Reply-To: References: <001801d5f81c$2b44ce80$81ce6b80$@att.net> Message-ID: Sounds interesting, Huw. Looking forward. mike On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 3:06 AM Huw Lloyd wrote: > The audio quality on the clip with Peter is good. It is nice to see short > videos that engage with thinking and rumination and yet still remain clear, > rather than, say, giving a monologue without the basis in experience. > > Regarding ZPD/ZND and identifying the child's / agent's task, a central > theme of a large project I have worked on (for about 5 years on and off) is > a study of active orientation. In this study I seek to identify and measure > the active orientation (intention) of the agent. This entails an integrated > appreciation for cognition, task-based activity, affect, scope of > attention, complexity of task, and the basis of reorganisation (of > cognition). A good reason for measuring active orientation is that if this > "invisible" element can be made explicit, it can then be used to insist > upon institutional changes to provide more space, support, and challenges > for developmental processes. > > I now have this all written up and am waiting for a window in my wife's > schedule for some proof reading, before I post them online. If this is > deemed to be useful, the next logical step would be for a peer review of > some kind to make it more formal. > > Best, > Huw > > > On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 at 03:15, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. > wrote: > >> Thanks for posting the field college edition of the newsletter, Mike. >> >> It is fun to thumb through it. >> >> I remember someone, I think it was Marge Martus, seeing all the activity >> in that hall we worked in and saying she didn?t see one child off task. >> Well, I said, if anyone was off task it would be like being in a rainstorm >> trying to dodge rain drops. >> >> >> >> We wanted to give away the teacher/experimenter privilege of giving the >> question and leaving only the response part for the child. If we couldn?t >> do that we would never see the children being under the control of the >> whole task. The child had to find/construct the task and the response; if >> it was public & open to collaboration with us we had a good chance of >> figuring out what both parts were and good reason to trust that the >> ?responses? were valid, not false positives or false negatives. Some of >> those little psyches were quite interesting task masters! Unusually kind, >> too, often nagging some ones of us to help out other ones of us who were >> working hard to keep up with the kids. >> >> >> >> It was good to see the spirits of Ann and Joe (and the much maligned >> Janet video). >> >> Pupeg >> >> >> >> *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto: >> xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] *On Behalf Of *mike cole >> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 11, 2020 7:37 PM >> *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: Butterfly found >> >> >> >> To me the important point in Peter's talk and paper is that the term >> blizaishi adopted by teachers, owing to the >> >> regimes of instruction that they are required to implement (constant >> testing, etc.) produces a form of "next step," >> >> short-term, strategy that denudes the social situation of >> relevance/interest to the child. LSV, he says, projected the developmental >> process into the longer-term process of development, say, the first 20 >> years or so. >> >> >> >> Evidence that Denis Newman, Peg Griffin, and I collected about 30 years >> ago indicates that the teacher's with whom >> >> we worked were intensely concerned with the challenges that students >> would face in the coming academic year... We found them selectively >> focusing on skills in 4th grade that had no special relevance in 4th grade, >> but became the center of attention in the 5th when particular skills >> became parts of more complex systems. But the short term focus was, as >> Peter suggests on >> >> the here and now and tomorrow test. >> >> >> >> An application of these ideas about seeking the short term as a part of >> the longer term can be found in what Peg Griffen and I called "Field >> College" at http://lchc.ucsd.edu/Histarch/jl82v4n3.PDF#page=1 . The >> organization of instruction in the model system we called "Question Asking >> Reading" at Field College can be in cole-cultural psychology 1996), chapter >> 9. (I do not have a copy of the chapter. If someone does, please post). >> >> >> >> Mescheryakov and his mentors converted traditional approaches to the >> education of the blind-deaf into a long term, immersive life world that >> made it possible to study development over the long term using principles >> of cultural-historical psychology. The entire, artificial, world was >> designed to be a zone of blizhayshi development. The best and most >> accessible account of this work that I know of can be found here: >> >> >> >> http://lchc.ucsd.edu/MCA/Mail/xmcamail.2010_04.dir/pdfaj3KKzidoJ.pdf >> >> >> >> mike >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 8:18 AM Greg Thompson >> wrote: >> >> Loved Peter's 2 min presentation on this! (thanks for doing those >> Anthony!) >> >> >> >> Also, has anyone written about ZoND (ZoNeD?) in terms of college >> students? I struggle with this daily as a teacher - trying to understand >> what the next stage of development is for college students and wondering to >> myself: What do my students actually NEED? (beyond the credential). Of >> course it isn't going to just be one thing. And it will surely be contested >> since, as Peter notes, the ZoND is responsive to the social and >> institutional contexts that come next. Nonetheless, it seems that there >> should be some broad strokes that we could sketch out in terms of Zone of >> Next Development for college students. Any pointers? >> >> >> >> -greg >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 8:34 AM Anthony Barra >> wrote: >> >> Forgive me if this is redundant. Peter Smagorinsky has written >> interestingly about *Butterflies*, with an emphasis on ZND vs ZPD, in >> this short paper here: >> >> "Deconflating the ZPD and instructional scaffolding: Retranslating and >> reconceiving the zone of proximal development as the zone of next >> development" >> http://www.petersmagorinsky.net/About/PDF/LCSI/LCSI_2018.pdf >> >> >> >> And if anyone is interested, here is a brief, 2-minute clip of Peter >> talking about the film and the ZND: "What is the Zone of Next Development?" >> http://tiny.cc/1qi5kz >> >> >> >> Thanks ~ >> >> Anthony >> >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 6:15 AM JULIE WADDINGTON < >> julie.waddington@udg.edu> wrote: >> >> Yes, thank you *very* much for this Professor Cole. We'll be sure not to >> tell ANYONE :) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> *De:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] >> en nom de Wagner Luiz Schmit [wagner.schmit@gmail.com] >> *Enviat el:* dimecres, 11 / mar? / 2020 11:05 >> *Per a:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >> *Tema:* [Xmca-l] Re: Butterfly found >> >> Thanks a lot Professor Cole!!! >> >> >> >> Wagner >> >> >> >> On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 9:19 PM mike cole wrote: >> >> Dear Colleagues - >> >> Deep in the the unruly and unstable bowels of the lchc website, too >> deep for google search to have penetrated it appears, is a copy of >> Butterflies in English. There is a rumor from the archivist, >> >> the ever-reliable Bruce Jones that is a copy of a 3/4" version from long >> ago, but that cannot be confirmed. >> >> Below is the secret route. Be sure not to tell anyone. >> >> mike >> >> >> >> http://lchc.ucsd.edu/Movies/Butterflies_of_Zagorsk.mp4 >> The copy is not great, but it's there. bj >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Critique is essential to all democracy. Not only does democracy >> >> require the freedom to criticize and need critical impulses. Democracy is >> >> nothing less than defined by critique T.Adorno >> >> --------------------------------------------------- >> >> For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other >> members of LCHC, visit >> >> lchc.ucsd.edu. For a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit >> lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >> >> Assistant Professor >> >> Department of Anthropology >> >> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >> >> Brigham Young University >> >> Provo, UT 84602 >> >> WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson >> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Critique is essential to all democracy. Not only does democracy >> >> require the freedom to criticize and need critical impulses. Democracy is >> >> nothing less than defined by critique. T.Adorno >> >> --------------------------------------------------- >> >> For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other >> members of LCHC, visit >> >> lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the >> research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. >> >> >> >> >> > -- Critique is essential to all democracy. Not only does democracy require the freedom to criticize and need critical impulses. Democracy is nothing less than defined by critique. T.Adorno --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200312/74d3f587/attachment.html From mcole@ucsd.edu Thu Mar 12 10:46:08 2020 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2020 10:46:08 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Butterfly found In-Reply-To: <001801d5f81c$2b44ce80$81ce6b80$@att.net> References: <001801d5f81c$2b44ce80$81ce6b80$@att.net> Message-ID: Yo Peg-- You remind me that while doing question-asking-reading for a while we realized that we were seeing real educational activity a la Davydov. Davydov had recently visited and had given a lecture in which he laughingly declared, "you'll never see educational activity in a school" (because all legitimated goals are pre-scribed and pre-scripted, no goal formation). We celebrated by sending VVD a telegram (only rapid way to do it in Brezhnev era) declaring that he should return to UCSD so that we could show him educational activity in a school (omitting the fact that we were in an auditorium, after school hours). How fragile the memory of those empirical results have turn out to be! Difficult to publish in general, and seldom cited. "The mnemonic consequences of hegemonic memory" :-)) mike On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 8:15 PM Peg Griffin, Ph.D. wrote: > Thanks for posting the field college edition of the newsletter, Mike. > > It is fun to thumb through it. > > I remember someone, I think it was Marge Martus, seeing all the activity > in that hall we worked in and saying she didn?t see one child off task. > Well, I said, if anyone was off task it would be like being in a rainstorm > trying to dodge rain drops. > > > > We wanted to give away the teacher/experimenter privilege of giving the > question and leaving only the response part for the child. If we couldn?t > do that we would never see the children being under the control of the > whole task. The child had to find/construct the task and the response; if > it was public & open to collaboration with us we had a good chance of > figuring out what both parts were and good reason to trust that the > ?responses? were valid, not false positives or false negatives. Some of > those little psyches were quite interesting task masters! Unusually kind, > too, often nagging some ones of us to help out other ones of us who were > working hard to keep up with the kids. > > > > It was good to see the spirits of Ann and Joe (and the much maligned Janet > video). > > Pupeg > > > > *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto: > xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] *On Behalf Of *mike cole > *Sent:* Wednesday, March 11, 2020 7:37 PM > *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: Butterfly found > > > > To me the important point in Peter's talk and paper is that the term > blizaishi adopted by teachers, owing to the > > regimes of instruction that they are required to implement (constant > testing, etc.) produces a form of "next step," > > short-term, strategy that denudes the social situation of > relevance/interest to the child. LSV, he says, projected the developmental > process into the longer-term process of development, say, the first 20 > years or so. > > > > Evidence that Denis Newman, Peg Griffin, and I collected about 30 years > ago indicates that the teacher's with whom > > we worked were intensely concerned with the challenges that students would > face in the coming academic year... We found them selectively focusing on > skills in 4th grade that had no special relevance in 4th grade, but became > the center of attention in the 5th when particular skills became parts of > more complex systems. But the short term focus was, as Peter suggests on > > the here and now and tomorrow test. > > > > An application of these ideas about seeking the short term as a part of > the longer term can be found in what Peg Griffen and I called "Field > College" at http://lchc.ucsd.edu/Histarch/jl82v4n3.PDF#page=1 . The > organization of instruction in the model system we called "Question Asking > Reading" at Field College can be in cole-cultural psychology 1996), chapter > 9. (I do not have a copy of the chapter. If someone does, please post). > > > > Mescheryakov and his mentors converted traditional approaches to the > education of the blind-deaf into a long term, immersive life world that > made it possible to study development over the long term using principles > of cultural-historical psychology. The entire, artificial, world was > designed to be a zone of blizhayshi development. The best and most > accessible account of this work that I know of can be found here: > > > > http://lchc.ucsd.edu/MCA/Mail/xmcamail.2010_04.dir/pdfaj3KKzidoJ.pdf > > > > mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 8:18 AM Greg Thompson > wrote: > > Loved Peter's 2 min presentation on this! (thanks for doing those Anthony!) > > > > Also, has anyone written about ZoND (ZoNeD?) in terms of college students? > I struggle with this daily as a teacher - trying to understand what the > next stage of development is for college students and wondering to myself: > What do my students actually NEED? (beyond the credential). Of course it > isn't going to just be one thing. And it will surely be contested since, as > Peter notes, the ZoND is responsive to the social and institutional > contexts that come next. Nonetheless, it seems that there should be some > broad strokes that we could sketch out in terms of Zone of Next Development > for college students. Any pointers? > > > > -greg > > > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 8:34 AM Anthony Barra > wrote: > > Forgive me if this is redundant. Peter Smagorinsky has written > interestingly about *Butterflies*, with an emphasis on ZND vs ZPD, in > this short paper here: > > "Deconflating the ZPD and instructional scaffolding: Retranslating and > reconceiving the zone of proximal development as the zone of next > development" http://www.petersmagorinsky.net/About/PDF/LCSI/LCSI_2018.pdf > > > > And if anyone is interested, here is a brief, 2-minute clip of Peter > talking about the film and the ZND: "What is the Zone of Next Development?" > http://tiny.cc/1qi5kz > > > > Thanks ~ > > Anthony > > > > On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 6:15 AM JULIE WADDINGTON > wrote: > > Yes, thank you *very* much for this Professor Cole. We'll be sure not to > tell ANYONE :) > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *De:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] > en nom de Wagner Luiz Schmit [wagner.schmit@gmail.com] > *Enviat el:* dimecres, 11 / mar? / 2020 11:05 > *Per a:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > *Tema:* [Xmca-l] Re: Butterfly found > > Thanks a lot Professor Cole!!! > > > > Wagner > > > > On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 9:19 PM mike cole wrote: > > Dear Colleagues - > > Deep in the the unruly and unstable bowels of the lchc website, too > deep for google search to have penetrated it appears, is a copy of > Butterflies in English. There is a rumor from the archivist, > > the ever-reliable Bruce Jones that is a copy of a 3/4" version from long > ago, but that cannot be confirmed. > > Below is the secret route. Be sure not to tell anyone. > > mike > > > > http://lchc.ucsd.edu/Movies/Butterflies_of_Zagorsk.mp4 > The copy is not great, but it's there. bj > > > > -- > > Critique is essential to all democracy. Not only does democracy > > require the freedom to criticize and need critical impulses. Democracy is > > nothing less than defined by critique T.Adorno > > --------------------------------------------------- > > For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other > members of LCHC, visit > > lchc.ucsd.edu. For a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit > lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. > > > > > > > > > -- > > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > > Assistant Professor > > Department of Anthropology > > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > > Brigham Young University > > Provo, UT 84602 > > WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > > > > > -- > > Critique is essential to all democracy. Not only does democracy > > require the freedom to criticize and need critical impulses. Democracy is > > nothing less than defined by critique. T.Adorno > > --------------------------------------------------- > > For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other > members of LCHC, visit > > lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the > research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. > > > > > -- Critique is essential to all democracy. Not only does democracy require the freedom to criticize and need critical impulses. Democracy is nothing less than defined by critique. T.Adorno --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200312/1a6aac1e/attachment.html From huw.softdesigns@gmail.com Mon Mar 16 11:02:10 2020 From: huw.softdesigns@gmail.com (Huw Lloyd) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2020 18:02:10 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Study of active orientation / cognitive development / genesis of handwriting skills Message-ID: Here are the links to the docs: https://www.academia.edu/42233039/A_Study_of_Active_Orientation https://www.academia.edu/42233036/A_Study_of_Active_Orientation_Part_1_A_Perspective-Based_Theory_of_Cognitive_Development https://www.academia.edu/42233037/A_Study_of_Active_Orientation_Part_2_Basis_for_an_Experimental_Study_of_Active_Orientation_Focused_Upon_the_Formation_of_Handwriting_Skills_of_Letter_Formation https://www.academia.edu/42233038/A_Study_of_Active_Orientation_Part_3_A_study_of_the_formation_of_a_childs_handwriting_skill Enjoy! Best, Huw On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 at 17:35, mike cole wrote: > Sounds interesting, Huw. Looking forward. > mike > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200316/922923fd/attachment.html From mcole@ucsd.edu Sun Mar 22 20:13:39 2020 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2020 20:13:39 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] =?utf-8?q?Fwd=3A_=5BCOGDEVSOC=5D_Call_for_applications_=E2=80=93?= =?utf-8?q?_RTG_=E2=80=9CSituated_Cognition=E2=80=9D=3A_13_PhD_posi?= =?utf-8?q?tions_in_Cognitive_Science=2C_Philosophy=2C_Psychology?= =?utf-8?q?=2C_or_Neuroscience?= In-Reply-To: <003b01d5ff5d$3b756b50$b26041f0$@ruhr-uni-bochum.de> References: <58f5a3af-5573-6d6e-0541-355a8e8ef75c@ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <003b01d5ff5d$3b756b50$b26041f0$@ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Message-ID: ----appropriate postdoc ------ Forwarded message --------- From: Samantha Ehli Date: Sun, Mar 22, 2020 at 8:05 PM Subject: [COGDEVSOC] Call for applications ? RTG ?Situated Cognition?: 13 PhD positions in Cognitive Science, Philosophy, Psychology, or Neuroscience To: Dear colleagues, Within the research training group ?situated cognition? the Department of Clinical Child and Adolescent Psychology of the Faculty of Psychology at Ruhr-University Bochum is looking for a PhD-student to empirically work on the conditions under which pretend play may facilitate proactive problem solving in children (project 7). Please find attached a more detailed description of the positions, required and preferred qualifications, and instructions on how to apply or find information here: https://situated-cognition.com/call/ More information on the lab can be found at: https://www.kli.psy.ruhr-uni-bochum.de/kkjp/kkjp_en.html If you have further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Please forward this announcement to recent graduated who may be interested in this research opportunity. Thank you. All the best, Sam Samantha Ehli, MSc Doktorandin Ruhr-Universit?t Bochum AE Klinische Kinder- und Jugendpsychologie Massenbergstra?e 9-13 , Ebene 3, Raum 19 D-44787 Bochum Telefon: 0234 32 23167 samantha.ehli@rub.de RTG Situated Cognition Ruhr-University Bochum Universit?tsstra?e 150 , D-44780 Bochum *Call for applications ? RTG ?Situated Cognition?: 13 PhD positions in Cognitive Science, Philosophy, Psychology, or Neuroscience* Call for applications ? RTG ?Situated Cognition?: 13 PhD positions in Cognitive Science, Philosophy, Psychology, or Neuroscience The interdisciplinary Research Training Group ?Situated Cognition?, funded by the Deutsche Forschungsgemeinschaft (DFG), invites applications for 13 PhD positions (salary scale TV-L E 13, 65%; including social benefits) for a three-year structured PhD program. The program and all positions will commence June 1st, 2020. The RTG is based at the Department of Philosophy II and the Faculty of Psychology at Ruhr-University Bochum as well as at the Institute of Cognitive Science and the Department of Philosophy at Osnabr?ck University. Speakers: Prof. Dr. Albert Newen (Ruhr-Universit?t Bochum); albert.newen@rub.de Prof. Dr. Achim Stephan (Universit?t Osnabr?ck); achim.stephan@uos.de All PhD positions are essentially interdisciplinary with an emphasis on one of the subjects involved, i.e. philosophical theory formation, experimental psychology or neuroscience. Applicants have to apply for one of the suggested projects (max. two with indication of preference). In addition, applicants are encouraged to submit their own original project proposal in one of the theoretical areas, as long as the proposal fits the RTG?s guiding idea. Information about the guiding ideas of the RTG and the PhD projects can be found at www.situated-cognition.de. Required qualifications (overview, please check the website for further details): Theoretical projects: Candidates applying for or suggesting a theoretical project are expected to have an excellent M.A., M.Sc. (or Staatsexamen degree) in Philosophy or Cognitive Science. They should have expertise in at least one of the following areas: Philosophy of Mind, Philosophy of Language, Philosophy of Action or Philosophy of Perception. Furthermore, we expect advanced knowledge in at least one of the following areas: Cognitive Psychology, Behavioral Biology, Artificial Intelligence, or Neuroscience. Empirical projects: Candidates applying for an empirical project are expected to have an excellent M.Sc. (or equivalent) in Cognitive Science, Psychology, Neuroscience or in an equivalent field. Candidates have to prove that she/he is able to work out one of the empirical projects described on the website. Applications should include the following documents, i.e.: ? the application form (please download from www.situated-cognition.com/call ) ? a letter of motivation including the applicant?s research interests and motivation to work within the RTG. This should include a selection of one (or two) PhD-projects (see website) ? a curriculum vitae ? copies of degree certificates ? a writing sample: the core chapter of the Diploma/Masters thesis or preferably one relevant publication (if available) ? optional: an outline of an original theoretical project which fits into the RTG?s framework (see the RTG-website and the websites of the PIs) Your application should consist of two PDF files: one, containing your personal documents and starting with the application form, and the second containing your writing sample. As certified family-friendly institutions, Osnabr?ck University and Ruhr University Bochum are committed to furthering the compatibility between work/studies and family life. Osnabr?ck University and Ruhr University Bochum are highly committed equal opportunity employers and strive to work towards a gender balance in schools or departments where new appointments are made. Equally qualified applicants with disabilities will be favored. Applications and inquiries should be addressed to: Prof. Dr. Albert Newen, Speaker RTG Situated Cognition Ruhr University Bochum email: RTG-SituatedCognition@rub.de www.situatedcognition.com _______________________________________________ This email represents the views of the sender and not the views of the Cognitive Development Society. To post to the CDS listserv, send your message to: cogdevsoc@lists.cogdevsoc.org (If you belong to the listserv and have not included any large attachments, your message will be posted without moderation--so be careful!) To subscribe or unsubscribe from the listserv, visit: http://lists.cogdevsoc.org/listinfo.cgi/cogdevsoc-cogdevsoc.org -- Critique is essential to all democracy. Not only does democracy require the freedom to criticize and need critical impulses. Democracy is nothing less than defined by critique. T.Adorno --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200322/530e790a/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Call for applications_RTG Situated Cognition_2019.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 383460 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200322/530e790a/attachment.pdf