[Xmca-l] Re: Your views on a question.
Andy Blunden
andyb@marxists.org
Tue Jun 30 19:01:10 PDT 2020
I beg to differ with you David. "Structuralism" dates from
the beginning of the 20th century and poststructuralism from
the 1970s roughly. That there were structuralist tendencies
in Marx's writing is undeniable, and likewise with Hegel and
with Vygotsky. But as I see it, "Structuralism" and
"Poststructuralism" are specific historically bounded
projects. I agree that both of these projects have had an
impact or influence on the development of Critical Theory
and CHAT, but neither are "structuralist."
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Andy
------------------------------------------------------------
*Andy Blunden*
Hegel for Social Movements <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!Mih3wA!VhKMxK62RuHFPtSiafVaIhcBWu6Corlc8Jwv8StB7faR8dToPmZRX0GyVindCZwfv_bGZg$ >
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On 1/07/2020 10:35 am, David H Kirshner wrote:
>
> Mike,
>
> Marx and Vygotsky both were structural theorists. My
> guess/impression is that as critical theory and
> sociocultural theory evolved both have been influenced by
> poststructural thought, but neither has made a true
> poststructural turn; nor have scholars in either arena
> really grappled with the implications of such a turn.
>
> David
>
> *From:*xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> *On Behalf Of *mike cole
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 30, 2020 6:59 PM
> *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: Your views on a question.
>
> That was a very clarifying note, David, thanks. So is
> cultural marxism one way to deal with mutability or
> stability of structure?
>
> Most of the marxist social science I am reading these days
> focuses on transformational agency and take their roots
> from Vygotsky
>
> and (various )predecessors, so this is post-structuralist
> Marxism?
>
> mike
>
> On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 6:19 AM David H Kirshner
> <dkirsh@lsu.edu <mailto:dkirsh@lsu.edu>> wrote:
>
> S’ma et al.,
>
> The issue of victimhood and “victim mentality” is
> roiled by crosscurrents of modernist and
> postmodernist, structuralist and poststructuralist
> thought. Victim mentality is always perspectival—I
> have been wronged. In a modernist frame, the
> perspective of victim may be able to be aligned with
> an overarching (i.e., structuralist) account that
> authorizes its significance. Critical theory, stemming
> from Marxist theory, is such a structuralist
> account—or perhaps, more accurately, a structuralist
> project as it is not clear that critical theorists
> have arrived at consensus about the theory.
> Postmodernism and poststructuralism abandon the
> structuralist mandate, accepting that there is no
> bedrock structural perspective that can encompass the
> variety of local perspectives. So my sense of my
> victimhood is simply my perspective, and the project
> of establishing its viability is purely a political
> one. Any of us can experience ourselves as victims,
> and assert a political claim to that effect.
> Interestingly, it is the political Right that embodies
> this poststructuralist critique of victimhood, and the
> political Left that orients itself in structuralism.
>
> David
>
> *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>> *On Behalf
> Of *Simangele Mayisela
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 30, 2020 5:25 AM
> *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: Your views on a question.
>
> Hi Annalisa and colleagues
>
> Thank you for processing my earlier articulation in
> such an impeccable manner. I see how your method of
> using definitions as a foundation for conversations,
> specially sensitive conversations in a multicultural
> forum such as this one. You have beautifully
> demonstrated that in your response below and in some
> of your previous enlightening contributions.
>
> Your reference to the George Orwell’s 1984 is quite
> fitting in this situation; when a victim expresses
> that they are victimised, they are then “gaslighted”,
> as there is something seriously wrong with their
> mentality – the victim mentality. It is short of
> saying “do not think” that you are victimised even if
> there is “victimisation”, or you “were” victimised.
> Perhaps we can accept better with “survivors” but the
> conditions and the context under which” survivors”
> continue to survive.
>
> Ok then, then the survivors develop a concept,
> “Critical Theory” to name, and shine light on the
> hidden aspects of “survivorhood”, where the conditions
> for thinking about or “reflecting” surviving are
> determined and controlled, even those who have power –
> “scientific or unscientific”.
>
> There is undeniable history of efforts and activities
> of survivors of different forms oppressions and
> genocides, where generations of survivors have shown
> resilience and the ability to move on, but only to be
> met with new and systematic ways of psychological and
> economic oppression. Leaving them with no option but
> to survive by different means at the disposal,
> including becoming religious with the home for future
> redemption. Of more interest to me are those who keep
> trying using “enlightened” ways by intellectually
> explaining to themselves as a collective and to the
> oppressor with the hope to bring about change for
> their situation – the “doing something about their
> situation.” Using the analogy of a monopoly game
> Tameka Jones Young
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10158129729940856&id=522190855__;!!Mih3wA!VhKMxK62RuHFPtSiafVaIhcBWu6Corlc8Jwv8StB7faR8dToPmZRX0GyVindCZyQumlNEw$
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fnam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com*2F*3Furl*3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fm.facebook.com*2Fstory.php*3Fstory_fbid*3D10158129729940856*26id*3D522190855__*3B!!Mih3wA!VX_uq7D0v43DAvM9nEC46ZStRpXjResRedVQUr9zhmuKYSRyZ34CmtUCYxxDViAr2G5ncg*24*26data*3D02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C3980c805ddde48ffcda308d81ce02bb5*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637291096420272281*26sdata*3DwTDn9GfEmrNWmDs7ZKaYDsB6FZCeMUVhqsyWF9XzaeE*3D*26reserved*3D0__*3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!Mih3wA!XgF09Z_7Jf5M7eawhdePrcY6Ga6UVHH-Wen9Vq7UBXWfzeFgYdOg20ED5HIi0LWe6MGJgg*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C793f465e2c064597a6ec08d81d52307d*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637291586126470977&sdata=Uuw6Xaz8ott*2FqhOnnPfx1NVKD7viv29J7hBq6yDOtQU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUqKioqKioqKioqKioqKiolJSoqKioqKioqJSUqJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!Mih3wA!WBb97M0rnCTuW6rx_rhYvkAPQLCK1TlHV1j2_71whs8hUwhp1NiF5m7opU1Tv5D4stnMCQ$>
> (please watch if you a minute to spare) , has a way
> that highlights why “victim mentality” is not an
> appropriate, or rather demeaning of those who are
> working hard to be free, let alone to be at par with
> the oppressors’ “survivors” if I may say so. The video
> is in the context of the gruesome protests after the
> murder of George Floyd, perhaps what is important for
> this conversation is the content, the meaning of her
> articulations, though her expressions are accompanied
> by very strong emotions, I found her monopoly analogy
> worth my reflection.
>
> I must say I owe it to myself to try draw some links
> between Cultural Historical Activity Theory, Critical
> Race Theory and Social Justice theory, I admire
> scholars, some who maybe in this thread who have used
> these theoretical lenses in their work in trying to
> understand mental development it the global context. I
> think Cultural Historical Activity Theory maybe one of
> the appropriate tools to explain that which concerns
> Lindsay; how Critical theory is finding its way of
> infiltrating critical spaces in communities, including
> academia, which he sees as nothing but “Grievance
> Studies” and threatening scientific thinking.
>
> It has been good partaking in these conversations. I
> think reflections can continue to happen in private at
> a personal level and in smaller groups. What is
> important is; yes need to reflect on our thinking and
> our learning. I myself have learned a lot from this
> thread, in conscious and unconscious ways I transform
> as I read your contributions, to the point I at times
> pleasantly surprise myself quoting what was said in
> this thread.
>
> Regards
>
> S’ma
>
> *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>> *On Behalf
> Of *Annalisa Aguilar
> *Sent:* Friday, 26 June 2020 22:37
> *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: Your views on a question.
>
> Hello S'ma and venerable others,
>
> I was intrigued by this notion of Critical Theory
> being posed as a "grievance science," as if taking on
> a maudlin cape of "victim mentality" around the
> shoulders, etc.
>
> It seems something of a cop-out to reduce it to that.
> It is almost as grievous as Holocaust deniers.
>
> Still, to consider it analytically, Critical Theory by
> design is intended to uncover the ideologies by which
> certain social sciences have been taught and
> promulgated. It's de-constructive, right? This stance
> might be seen as nihilistic, but there has been some
> valuable work from stripping off the veneer of power
> structures in order to analyze its underlying logic,
> which in many cases has been arbitrary and reveals
> that privilege is usually not earned through merit.
>
> When considering relations of power, it's easy (albeit
> insensitive) for someone of privilege to name the
> powerless as "victims," but when this is done, it is
> only in an objection when victims call themselves
> victims, as if they have no right to do so.
>
> So who has the right to use this word "victim"?
>
> I feel there is a strange aura about the word that is
> likened to the word "masochistic" and it's *that
> baggage* I am wrangling with in my post here.
>
> Must there be prejudice cast upon those who are actual
> and legitimate victims. There seems intertwined in the
> meaning of the word something unquantifiable but that
> does result in "blaming the victim" dynamics, and even
> more insidious, gaslighting, and these have results of
> its own harmful effects. (Like when we say "to add
> insult to injury").
>
> Can no one use the word "victim" anymore?
>
> Frequently people use the word "survivor," which does
> have connotations of resilience and fortitude against
> odds (of being victimized). But when we consider the
> word "survivor" when used as the name of a reality
> game show (in the early naughts). where people choose
> to put themselves in difficult circumstances on
> deserted islands to overcome these circumstances by
> their wits, to then be "voted off the island" by the
> other "survivors." Talk about social Darwinism!
>
> I feel there is still something the word "survivor"
> leaves unspoken about the representation of a person
> who has been a target of prejudice, crime, neglect, or
> abuse, whether intentionally or not.
>
> Curious, I looked up the definitions of "victim" and
> found these:
>
> 1. a person who suffers from a destructive or
> injurious action or agency: a victim of an
> automobile accident.
> 2. a person who is deceived or cheated, as by his or
> her own emotions or ignorance, by the dishonesty
> of others, or by some impersonal agency: a victim
> of misplaced confidence; the victim of a swindler;
> a victim of an optical illusion.
> 3. a person or animal sacrificed or regarded as
> sacrificed: war victims.
> 4. a living creature sacrificed in religious rites.
>
> When I look up synonyms for "victim" I find this:
>
> casualty, fatality, martyr, sufferer, butt, clown,
> dupe, fool, gambit, gopher, gudgeon, gull, hireling,
> immolation, innocent, mark, patsy, pawn, pigeon, prey,
> pushover, quarry, sacrifice, scapegoat, stooge,
> sucker, underdog, wretch, babe in woods, easy make,
> easy mark, hunted, injured party, sitting duck,
> sitting target, soft touch.
>
> I did the same for the term survivor:
>
> 1. a person or thing that survives.
> 2. Law. the one of two or more designated persons, as
> joint tenants or others having a joint interest,
> who outlives the other or others.
> 3. a person who continues to function or prosper in
> spite of opposition, hardship, or setbacks.
>
> Synoymns:
>
> balance, debris, leftovers, legacy, oddments,
> remainder, remnant, remnants, residue, rest, scraps,
> surplus, trash, odds and ends, orts
>
> The third definition seems the lest frequent usage,
> or is it the most recent accepted meaning?
>
> It is odd to consider victims as designated parties of
> sacrifice; and survivors to be considered mere leftovers.
>
> Is it that the life energy of victims are like easily
> accessible batteries to be utilized for the benefit of
> those not sacrificed? Isn't that what criminals do? To
> appropriate the property or energy of others for their
> own unearned benefit and advancement?
>
> Is that fitness or crime?
>
> t the same time to be a survivor seems to be something
> left less whole.
>
> What then would one call an individual or group who
> has been overpowered against their self-agency by
> another individual or group? Is there a word without
> these undertowing currents of meaning?
>
> We can say oppressed, but no one likes to say "I have
> been oppressed." or "I am oppressed," just as no one
> likes to say "I have been victimized," "I am a
> victim," or "My society is victimized by your
> society," or "My ancestors were enslaved by yours."
>
> And yet, these would be factual pronouncements, were
> legitimate individuals (victims) of those actual
> experiences to describe themselves in this fashion.
>
> Would it be no different than an individual saying, "I
> have been an oppressor." or "I oppress." No one likes
> to say "I victimize others," "I am a perpetrator," or
> "My society victimizes your society," or "My ancestors
> enslaved yours."
>
> The problem in making these sorts of statements is
> that while factual and descriptive, they can actually
> be twisted into being prescriptive. As if to say, "I
> did this and I can do it again because that's who I
> am." or "This happened to me and it can happen again
> because that's who I am."
>
> While there are people such as this Lindsay (I did not
> watch the video), who can throw about "victimization"
> as if it were a shameful badge to wear, I don't see
> anyone of that camp using the same disdain to describe
> those who performed grave injustices against others,
> to perhaps utter a phrase like "perpetrator of
> injustices", that might invoke that same shadow of
> shame. To my estimation, whatever the words, it would
> be right and just they should provide that shadow of
> shame, given the injustices that Critical Theory is
> attempting to understand, without further empowering
> perpetrators and without further disempowering victims.
>
> Is the reason for this blindspot or lapse because a
> crime performed in past cannot be adjusted to correct
> for the crime, that it somehow means justice cannot be
> performed? In a sort of "shrugged shoulders - c'est la
> vie" kind of attitude? That no one believes exhuming
> the "dead bodies" from "unmarked graves" worth the
> unpleasantness of the task?
>
> Why is it easy to commit the crime, but so hard to
> bend the arc of justice to meet the crime?
>
> In the days of the American Wild West, justice was
> doled out too quickly, but now it seems it is too slowly.
>
> This is why I wonder how to consider science when we
> are talking about power structures. What is scientific
> about justice/injustice? Power seems unscientific. It
> is arbitrary. Or is it?
>
> Were we to describe the cause and effect of such power
> structures and their internal reasoning, it would
> start to sound like Nazi propaganda, or the promotion
> of eugenics.
>
> I'm reminded of a Bill Moyers interview I saw many
> years ago, the name of the guest I don't remember. I
> only recall he was a politico for the George W Bush
> campaign, and the fellow claimed his favorite book was
> Orwell's 1984, as if to say that it was an instruction
> booklet on how to create the kind of society he
> wanted. The blatant honesty was breathtaking.
>
> Reading S'ma's post made me aware of how in the case
> of (all forms of) oppression it's rare for the
> oppressor to say, "I have some self-reflection to do
> to answer for the deeds of my ancestors, to make up
> for the injustices suffered by your ancestors," or "My
> sense of privilege allowed me to oppress you, and I
> don't feel right about that, so I will stop that now.
> I see the errors of my ways."
>
> It feels there is no obligation for reconciliation
> because such folk percieve the cement of history has
> been poured and dried. "It's in the past, let's move on."
>
> There is something absurd about the tacit agreement to
> avoid self-naming, and I'm trying to sort out how it
> might be not to be so absurd sounding.
>
> Has anyone a hand up to provide me on this reflection?
>
> I'm not sure I'm articulating this very well, but that
> is my best attempt. Forgive any flaws in my reasoning,
> and of course the typos there above.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Annalisa
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:*xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>> on behalf of
> Simangele Mayisela <simangele.mayisela@wits.ac.za
> <mailto:simangele.mayisela@wits.ac.za>>
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 25, 2020 6:04 AM
> *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: Your views on a question.
>
> * [EXTERNAL]*
>
> Hi Andy and Alfredo
>
> Thank you for responding to my communication, and for
> viewing the video I referred to in my previous email.
> Let me say that the connection between the current
> conversation about “scientific” knowledge (in this
> case in relation to “levels” of mental development
> and “ideology”) and James Lindsay’s argument on
> Critical Theory having no scientific basis (in the
> video) is this:
>
> Lindsayand his colleagues believe that Critical
> Theory, I suppose with its shoots like Critical Race
> Theory, Critical Race Feminist theory, Identity
> Theories, etc. do not have a scientific base but are a
> movement which they call “Grievance studies”, that
> perpetuates “self-pity” and “victim mentality”. They
> further went on to produce fake scientific study “dog
> rape culture and feminism” known as “hoax science” as
> evidence of how unscientific “grievance studies” are;
> most of which are of course are situated in the social
> sciences. This further exposed the paucity in the
> system of peer reviews in scientific journals, which
> some believe are also tainted by ideological
> predispositions – my fear is that this introduces
> mistrust in the notion of review processes of
> scientific journals - which we have to be concerned
> about.
>
> The reason I brought up Lindsay’s argument to the
> picture is: while I am not certain if I wholly agree
> with Lindsay’s argument on Critical Theories, I am
> however fascinated by the fact that they confirm the
> influence of ideological position an individual or
> rather a “scientist” holds, ( an idea alluded to by
> some, earlier in this thread). I believe, as much as
> we aspire to be objective in our pursuit of scientific
> enquiry, the narratives associated with our scientific
> knowledge(s) are likely to be tainted with
> ideologically biases or historicity. The likes of
> Lindsay and Weinstein bring to our attention the
> dangers of the exclusion of the masses in the name of
> “scientific evidence” – who in this day of rapid
> technological connection the collective is gradually
> become global rather than in specific localities. Even
> those that deemed to have “primitive mental
> functioning” or “unsophisticated” mental functioning,
> their unexpected ability to infiltrate academia and
> other spaces with Critical Theory like a “Trojan
> Horse”, that’s according to Bret Weinstein (
> po.nl/2020/06/20/must-watch-joe-rogan-with-bret-weinstein-critical-theory-is-basically-a-trojan-horse/
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__http*3A*2F*2Fpo.nl*2F2020*2F06*2F20*2Fmust-watch-joe-rogan-with-bret-weinstein-critical-theory-is-basically-a-trojan-horse*2F__*3B!!Mih3wA!QCD7ed0aCRAAlp7GdBrl0meYtbgs9bxM8e7Zg-RtwtTHcq2MHVUupotmjSed87zhqcRqSA*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C793f465e2c064597a6ec08d81d52307d*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637291586126480974&sdata=OgkwRQ102d*2BW*2FUntR5jqwUD44OozPBxwZ495zg7NrtI*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!Mih3wA!WBb97M0rnCTuW6rx_rhYvkAPQLCK1TlHV1j2_71whs8hUwhp1NiF5m7opU1Tv5As5j44Bw$>
> ) seems to surprise us. I wonder though, if Critical
> Theorists' Trojan Horse is scientific evidence of
> “self-pity”, “victim mentality”, unsophisticated
> mental functioning, … (we can add other classifying
> adjectives to describe all those who have not
> developed “scientific tools”).
>
> My reference to Lindsay and Marxism, is related to
> some of the sources that I have encountered earlier,
> clearly not on this YouTube video I referred you to,
> but it is within this line of debates about
> “scientific” knowledge”.
>
> It seems to me that the association of Paulo Freire’s
> “Education for the Oppressed” to "victim mentality"
> is kind of twisted and perhaps mistook for “Education
> for the Depressed”, which is unfortunate, especially
> if we take into consideration all the publications by
> Freire, like Education for Liberation. Nevertheless,
> the Trojan Horse analogy for the Critical Education is
> evidence of the collectively formulated knowledge
> that is generously shared, rendering the commodified
> "scientific" knowledge accessible to the privileged
> few, generously shared to all who needs to advance the
> survival of humanity.
>
> Regards,
>
> Simangele
>
> simangele.mayisela@wits.ac.za
> <mailto:simangele.mayisela@wits.ac.za>
>
> *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>> *On Behalf
> Of *Andy Blunden
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 24 June 2020 03:37
> *To:* xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: Your views on a question.
>
> Casting collective efforts at self-determination as
> "victim mentality" or "self pity" has long been a line
> of right-wing criticism of progressive movements. Of
> all people, Paulo Freire is the last to be guilty of
> such a sin though; his pedagogy is aimed specifically,
> like Myles Horton's, at stimulating and equipping
> people from being victims to self-determination. There
> is such a thing as a politics of pity though; it is
> called philanthropy and charity.
>
> Andy
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *Andy Blunden*
> Hegel for Social Movements
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fnam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com*2F*3Furl*3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fbrill.com*2Fview*2Ftitle*2F54574__*3B!!Mih3wA!WCK45j6Y4AscTY1OVN1quxD0_VDKtR1Y9u5SYoUgfTIzhGpvyRCeU6XnFqBCRESHVrtCaw*24*26data*3D02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C3980c805ddde48ffcda308d81ce02bb5*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637291096420282275*26sdata*3DoX74*2BlINhl3MWMlwht3oCw5PTrjXyxOQX17*2BfVvxpf8*3D*26reserved*3D0__*3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!Mih3wA!XgF09Z_7Jf5M7eawhdePrcY6Ga6UVHH-Wen9Vq7UBXWfzeFgYdOg20ED5HIi0LW-P86LBA*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C793f465e2c064597a6ec08d81d52307d*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637291586126480974&sdata=IkuUm91U9GMwiGxaDJXhs8w5QnwrCsBLNDtBPb0z6pA*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUqKioqKioqKioqKiolJSoqKioqKioqJSUqKiolJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!Mih3wA!WBb97M0rnCTuW6rx_rhYvkAPQLCK1TlHV1j2_71whs8hUwhp1NiF5m7opU1Tv5BzBwex0g$>
> Home Page
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>
>
> On 24/06/2020 9:11 am, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote:
>
> thanks S’ma; among the many philosophy of science
> scholars who discuss what rigorous scientific and
> scholarship are or can be, your choice—a video
> critiquing critical theory in terms of what
> Lindsay refers to as “grievance studies”–is
> indeed surprising and remarkable in the context
> of this conversation!
>
> In the video, which did not so much touch my small
> Marxist me (I am not so well read so as to know
> how much of a Marxist I am!), Lindsay mentions
> Paolo Freire’s Pedagogy of the Oppressed as an
> example of “critical social justice” books, which
> he defines as “a codified way to indulge people
> into self pity…”(min. 47:50). He complains that
> teachers are being educated with Freire’s book,
> and that students are being taught with this
> critical (or, as Lindsay’s says, this self-pity)
> attitude. Without going into whether Lindsay’s
> critique holds or has any touch with what critical
> theory scholars argue and do, I wonder, what would
> be, from Lindsay’s position, an example of a good
> book for teachers, and why would that one be it?
>
> Alfredo
>
> *From: *<xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> on behalf
> of Martin Packer <mpacker@cantab.net>
> <mailto:mpacker@cantab.net>
> *Reply to: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
> <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> *Date: *Tuesday, 23 June 2020 at 23:54
> *To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
> <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: Your views on a question.
>
> Hi Simangele,
>
> How are you evaluating “level of mental
> functioning”? I would say that is something with
> which psychology has had some difficulty.
>
> Martin
>
> /"I may say that whenever I meet Mrs. Seligman
> or Dr. Lowie or discuss matters with
> Radcliffe-Brown or Kroeber, I become at once aware
> that my partner does not understand anything in
> the matter, and I end usually with the feeling
> that this also applies to myself” (Malinowski, 1930)/
>
> On Jun 23, 2020, at 4:32 PM, Simangele
> Mayisela <simangele.mayisela@wits.ac.za
> <mailto:simangele.mayisela@wits.ac.za>> wrote:
>
> Further, I still have more questions, however
> it does appear to me that at the heart of the
> “hypothesis” of the scientific question are
> the “levels” of mental development which are
> associated to “skin colour”, with little
> consideration of the historical oppression
> that created the “backwards” economies that
> keep the third of the global population is
> what appears to be of low level of mental
> functioning. The question is more about “what
> is the quality of the contents of what is
> embodies by the black skin or a white skin?”
> with the aim to find evidence for the difference.
>
> Just to share, lately have been viewing James
> Lindsay argument on what is “scientific”,
> “rigorous scientific” and “scholarship” vs
> popular narratives that are a propaganda based
> on Critical Theory, which are taking over
> academy. Here is one his videos that you may
> want to view – if you are Marxist at heart be
> warned that you may be challenged by Lindsay’s
> argument on ideologies.
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8N55gFjg4yg__;!!Mih3wA!VhKMxK62RuHFPtSiafVaIhcBWu6Corlc8Jwv8StB7faR8dToPmZRX0GyVindCZxkfnq3gg$
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fnam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com*2F*3Furl*3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fwww.youtube.com*2Fwatch*3Fv*3D8N55gFjg4yg__*3B!!Mih3wA!V2LYI2I2g-qSP--eE84G38eGWBud9YwatVDWX1IvY27YgsR7kTdkqVGDNoLNCYNmswIv-Q*24*26data*3D02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C3980c805ddde48ffcda308d81ce02bb5*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637291096420292271*26sdata*3DtYB881hofx2qlKcYHVaGFLwJWbzpFnRD8oRsTDV1y3U*3D*26reserved*3D0__*3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!Mih3wA!XgF09Z_7Jf5M7eawhdePrcY6Ga6UVHH-Wen9Vq7UBXWfzeFgYdOg20ED5HIi0LWZEZpvXQ*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C793f465e2c064597a6ec08d81d52307d*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637291586126490969&sdata=QtplwvBnPbeO8pEDjpsqP1r5VP8rKbh4hV6gmpYUbDE*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUqKioqKioqKioqKiolJSoqKioqKioqJSUqJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!Mih3wA!WBb97M0rnCTuW6rx_rhYvkAPQLCK1TlHV1j2_71whs8hUwhp1NiF5m7opU1Tv5Aaswj01g$>
>
> Regards
>
> S’ma
>
> *From:* Simangele Mayisela
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 23 June 2020 22:10
> *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
> *Subject:* RE: [Xmca-l] Re: Your views on a
> question.
>
> Dear Alfredo
>
> Thank you for taking my attention of “level”
> which is crucial to rendering the question
> “scientific”. But couple with level, which
> could be quantifies as “high” and “low” or
> “superior” or “inferior” would account for
> “difference”. As much as the question to be
> asked should be about the “ideological basis”
> , I think the “hypothesis” is likely to be
> linked to the “ideolody” as the hypothesis
> serves as springboard from which the scientist
> works from, which informs where the person
> will land in terms of the ideas.
>
> Nevertheless thank you for the clarification.
> I see what you mean ?
>
> Regards,
>
> S’ma
>
> *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>> *On
> Behalf Of *Alfredo Jornet Gil
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 23 June 2020 20:51
> *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: Your views on a question.
>
> Dear S’ma,
>
> I am not sure anyone could provide that
> “scientific” basis without first explaining
> what is meant by “level,” and most
> importantly, why and how such explanation
> should be relevant to account for historical
> relations across cultures/societies, specially
> relations of oppression. I understand your
> curiosity, though, which is why I feel it is
> important to be very clear about this issue
> and not let it unfold as if this was simply an
> adequate scientific or philosophical research
> question. Given all that we know from history
> and more precisely from political economy, the
> important discussion is not about the
> scientific basis of that affirmation, but
> about its **ideological** basis: what sort of
> ideological inquiry is set forth by posing
> that question in the context of this thread
> and of this moment in history? There can be no
> question that there are and there were
> differences between the socioeconomic
> formations of different cultures and that such
> cultures were local, not global or
> international. So, the problem is not finding
> the “scientific” basis but the how and why
> that question is being raised. I hope this
> makes sense to all of you, does it?
>
> Alfredo
>
> *From: *<xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>> on
> behalf of Simangele Mayisela
> <simangele.mayisela@wits.ac.za
> <mailto:simangele.mayisela@wits.ac.za>>
> *Reply to: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
> <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
> *Date: *Tuesday, 23 June 2020 at 19:57
> *To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
> <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
> *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: Your views on a question.
>
> Friends!
>
> I am curious to read more about the scientific
> basis of the “the difference in the level of
> /the mental socioeconomic formation/ between
> the two.” Can colleagues be kind to provide
> scientific sources of this difference.
>
> Regards,
>
> S’ma
>
> *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>> *On
> Behalf Of *White, Phillip
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 23 June 2020 14:08
> *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: Your views on a question.
>
> This is horribly troubling
>
> Racist eugenics
>
> Please stop
>
> Phillip
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jun 23, 2020, at 5:40 AM, Harshad Dave
> <hhdave15@gmail.com
> <mailto:hhdave15@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
> Dear Prof. David,
>
> Your message reads...
>
> "I think racist filth, devoid of any
> scientific understanding and without a
> shred of scientific basis, should not be
> distributed anywhere. It certainly does
> not belong on this list."
>
> I request you to go through the following
> points carefully. Perhaps, you might catch
> the sound of my saying.
>
> Point 1
>
> If my views on the subject matter impress
> anyone that it is a distribution of the
> racist filth, I think they (my views) are
> grasped with a great misunderstanding.
>
> Whenever any unpleasant event happens
> (like the unfortunate death of Floyd or
> else) between black/brown and white, the
> attitude and mindset of racism in the
> event is discussed by all as if the color
> of the skin is responsible for it….. as if
> it is founded on the color of the skin.
>
> Here I disagree and simply say…. Basically
> it is not the cause of color of the skin
> but it (the cause) harbors in the
> difference in the level of /the mental
> socioeconomic formation/ between the two.
>
> Nowhere I ever said, no where I supported,
> no where I believed that *“it is justified”*.
>
> Please, try to understand me….
>
> “Whether racism should be there OR it
> should not be there”
>
> OR
>
> “If it is justified OR not justified”
>
> is not the subject matter of my saying. I
> just say the cause of the said “filth”
> does not lie in the color of the skin but
> it lies in the above mentioned “Level
> difference”.
>
> Point 2
>
> You have reproduced a small paragraph from
> my doc file that I attached in my previous
> message.
>
> If I am not mistaken to understand the
> essence of the saying in your message, I
> think you pointed out…
>
> “The views that I presented in the
> subject paragraph do not have /scientific
> understanding/ and /scientific basis/.”
>
> I agree with you that while writing my
> subject views I have never searched if
> they have scientific support as above. I
> believe… /an outcome of contemplation/ and
> /a logical compliance/ are the supports
> and justifications of any /thinker/ to
> present his views.
>
> If people (readers) accept the views no
> research paper is needed to support them.
> When a thinker is asked to present
> scientific support for his views I fear
> doors of philosophical works will get shut
> down. I have not claimed the views are
> /rules/ and /laws/. If readers do not
> agree with them, the views automatically
> will become null and void.
>
> Regards,
>
> Harshad Dave
>
> On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 3:27 PM Mary van
> der Riet <VanDerRiet@ukzn.ac.za
> <mailto:VanDerRiet@ukzn.ac.za>> wrote:
>
> I agree
>
> /Mary van der Riet (Phd), Associate
> Professor/
>
> /Discipline of Psychology, School of
> Applied Human Sciences, College of
> Humanities, University of
> KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa/
>
> /email: vanderriet@ukzn.ac.za
> <mailto:vanderriet@ukzn.ac.za> tel:
> +27 33 260 6163/
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:*xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
> on behalf of David Kellogg
> <dkellogg60@gmail.com
> <mailto:dkellogg60@gmail.com>>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 23 June 2020 02:32
> *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: Your views on
> a question.
>
> Dear Mr. Dave:
>
> I think racist filth, devoid of any
> scientific understanding and without a
> shred of scientific basis, should not
> be distributed anywhere. It certainly
> does not belong on this list.
>
> "Who were the black people that
> Europeans brought with them? They were
> living in primitive habitations in
> Africa with very primitive socio
> economic formation. Their forefathers
> have never passed through the ups and
> downs in last 3000 years comparable to
> the lessons European people learned
> and sustained with and ever before
> that. The development of brain threads
> of the black people and structure of
> their DNA are in compliance with the
> pattern of life their forefathers
> passed through in Africa and its
> status was in line with the socio
> economic formation in which they lived
> when they were forcibly kidnapped as
> slaves by European people and their
> agents. Generally we talk about
> apartheid but it is complex issue. We
> never give consideration to this fact
> of difference in brain thread net work
> and structure of DNA and consequential
> difficulties people of both the sides
> face while they have to interact with
> each others."
>
>
> David Kellogg
>
> Sangmyung University
>
> New Article: Ruqaiya Hasan, in
> memoriam: A manual and a manifesto.
>
> Outlines, Spring 2020
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238__;!!Mih3wA!VhKMxK62RuHFPtSiafVaIhcBWu6Corlc8Jwv8StB7faR8dToPmZRX0GyVindCZzQyYS0Rg$
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fnam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com*2F*3Furl*3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fprotect-za.mimecast.com*2Fs*2F4SZoCj2J6yfjqgqZSW5Gft*3Fdomain*3Durldefense.com__*3B!!Mih3wA!TSjxRZNvMM9E_Fxpr61FuZbtdmS2LqgbJ1zNHqtehEMf9FHvEvwI66x315TOM1TAHTd1Fg*24*26data*3D02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C3980c805ddde48ffcda308d81ce02bb5*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637291096420292271*26sdata*3Dws*2BTxNlMfBCnaOxjSQeYzgpEqY1FUxQIewYFvLFOscU*3D*26reserved*3D0__*3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!Mih3wA!XgF09Z_7Jf5M7eawhdePrcY6Ga6UVHH-Wen9Vq7UBXWfzeFgYdOg20ED5HIi0LUikfVmyA*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C793f465e2c064597a6ec08d81d52307d*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637291586126500961&sdata=BsRDUmg2Cwdlbu8S903SujcLOfRaJYSKnMnnc0uEjLg*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUqKioqKioqKioqKioqJSUqKioqKioqKiUlKiolJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!Mih3wA!WBb97M0rnCTuW6rx_rhYvkAPQLCK1TlHV1j2_71whs8hUwhp1NiF5m7opU1Tv5DImOWcdg$>
>
> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov:
> /L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works/
> /Volume One: Foundations of Pedology/"
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!VhKMxK62RuHFPtSiafVaIhcBWu6Corlc8Jwv8StB7faR8dToPmZRX0GyVindCZyjtPXbHQ$
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fnam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com*2F*3Furl*3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fprotect-za.mimecast.com*2Fs*2F_02ECk5MXzfnQgQoUVBQs_*3Fdomain*3Durldefense.com__*3B!!Mih3wA!TSjxRZNvMM9E_Fxpr61FuZbtdmS2LqgbJ1zNHqtehEMf9FHvEvwI66x315TOM1R8_2MsEg*24*26data*3D02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C3980c805ddde48ffcda308d81ce02bb5*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637291096420302264*26sdata*3DoZDiNz6Qd4M8gI6BiWDOd4gj*2BjsRQ0qVAi6YL2NdBQc*3D*26reserved*3D0__*3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!Mih3wA!XgF09Z_7Jf5M7eawhdePrcY6Ga6UVHH-Wen9Vq7UBXWfzeFgYdOg20ED5HIi0LViusNW8g*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C793f465e2c064597a6ec08d81d52307d*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637291586126500961&sdata=AFaK1CZt13CaC2C7E756y0WTRP55Uan*2Fkt*2B*2FRbqy3Mk*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUqKioqKioqKioqKioqJSUqKioqKioqKiUlKiolJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!Mih3wA!WBb97M0rnCTuW6rx_rhYvkAPQLCK1TlHV1j2_71whs8hUwhp1NiF5m7opU1Tv5C_sT1iGw$>
>
> On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 1:53 PM
> Harshad Dave <hhdave15@gmail.com
> <mailto:hhdave15@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
> David—
>
> Your message addressed to Anthony
> impresses me that you have reached
> a conclusion in haste and
> prematurely about my
> concepts/views. Perhaps it might
> be due to weakness/error in the
> presentation of my views. Here I
> put three points to express myself.
>
> *Point 1:*
>
> When I contemplate on the issue of
> racism (discrimination between two
> sets of people from different
> origin), I temporarily suspend my
> feelings/sentiments founded on
> /philosophy of humanity/ to work
> on the issue impartially. I appeal
> to all friends to come out from
> that cocoon if they want to have a
> transparent vision on the subject
> issue.
>
> If anyone believes that the
> anatomy of the subject issue might
> be discovered by mounting one leg
> on the horse of our /sentiments
> and emotions on humanitarian
> concepts/ and second leg on the
> horse of /facts of/ /the
> prevailing social constitution of
> latest socio economic formation,
> /I think he will never succeed in
> his task.
>
> *Point 2:*
>
> Here below, I attach one
> doc file....title--- “Where the
> shoe pinches?” I request you to
> read the points discussed there on
> this subject matter on page 28 as
> the article is very long.
>
> [Go to page 28 and it starts – “It
> is not necessary that there should
> be two separate nations or
> habitations with different levels
> of socio economic formations and
> both………….”
>
> It ends at page no. 35 – “……….
> prejudice and partiality, but it
> is mandatory that they must have
> all the abilities to secure their
> right of enjoyment through their
> abilities only.”]
>
> The fact that is discussed in the
> above mentioned text cannot be
> overlooked with our /justice and
> good conscience/.
>
> *Point 3:*
>
> As concluded by David,
>
> “……but it seems to me that Mr.
> Dave is trying to reinterpret
> events in the USA using concepts……”
>
> I say he has misunderstood me. I
> do agree that the social
> constitution in India is
> influencedby “cast culture” but
> there are people who might think
> and analyze issues pertaining to
> social science and economics
> remaining out of the cocoon of
> “cast culture”.
>
> Regards,
>
> Harshad Dave
>
> On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 4:26 AM
> David Kellogg
> <dkellogg60@gmail.com
> <mailto:dkellogg60@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Anthony--
>
> I think Annalisa knows more
> about this than I do, but it
> seems to me that Mr. Dave is
> trying to reinterpret events
> in the USA using concepts that
> are related to the ancient
> Hindu system of caste. Castes
> are not races (they are even
> less tied to pigmentation than
> race), and they are certainly
> not classes (they are
> reproduced by marriage and the
> family rather than by
> relations of production): I
> suppose they are something
> like kinship groups that are
> tied for historical as well as
> religious reasons to
> particular professions.
> Because they are emphasized in
> religion (and more recently in
> India's communal politics)
> they can certainly be said to
> be "socio-mental" in quality.
> Somehow I don't think that
> this is what Andy has in mind
> when he says that cultural
> artefacts bring the WHOLE of
> culture into interpersonal
> interaction and suspend the
> distinction between social
> theory and psychology!
>
>
> David Kellogg
>
> Sangmyung University
>
> New Article: Ruqaiya Hasan, in
> memoriam: A manual and a
> manifesto.
>
> Outlines, Spring 2020
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238__;!!Mih3wA!VhKMxK62RuHFPtSiafVaIhcBWu6Corlc8Jwv8StB7faR8dToPmZRX0GyVindCZzQyYS0Rg$
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fnam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com*2F*3Furl*3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fprotect-za.mimecast.com*2Fs*2F7lk_ClO6EAHoZLZ6sy71p6*3Fdomain*3Durldefense.com__*3B!!Mih3wA!TSjxRZNvMM9E_Fxpr61FuZbtdmS2LqgbJ1zNHqtehEMf9FHvEvwI66x315TOM1TbNjHOhg*24*26data*3D02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C3980c805ddde48ffcda308d81ce02bb5*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637291096420302264*26sdata*3DhTNTKP*2FH5OTNKi4hnlDCY3x22GnX*2FDNFQsn*2B*2FNIoUnA*3D*26reserved*3D0__*3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!Mih3wA!XgF09Z_7Jf5M7eawhdePrcY6Ga6UVHH-Wen9Vq7UBXWfzeFgYdOg20ED5HIi0LWsUNrEzg*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C793f465e2c064597a6ec08d81d52307d*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637291586126510957&sdata=*2BB*2FYINhdJulrH*2F2KKlarQbMxEKYZ271GSsagUNwvdZU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUqKioqKioqKioqKioqJSUqKioqKioqKiUlKioqKiolJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!Mih3wA!WBb97M0rnCTuW6rx_rhYvkAPQLCK1TlHV1j2_71whs8hUwhp1NiF5m7opU1Tv5B3Tr6BJA$>
>
> New Translation with Nikolai
> Veresov: /L.S. Vygotsky's
> Pedological Works/ /Volume
> One: Foundations of Pedology/"
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!VhKMxK62RuHFPtSiafVaIhcBWu6Corlc8Jwv8StB7faR8dToPmZRX0GyVindCZyjtPXbHQ$
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fnam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com*2F*3Furl*3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fprotect-za.mimecast.com*2Fs*2FhrCcCmwXNBT5nvnks9iGdT*3Fdomain*3Durldefense.com__*3B!!Mih3wA!TSjxRZNvMM9E_Fxpr61FuZbtdmS2LqgbJ1zNHqtehEMf9FHvEvwI66x315TOM1Rq1D29Ug*24*26data*3D02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C3980c805ddde48ffcda308d81ce02bb5*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637291096420312260*26sdata*3DMbL*2FDUSOR4oMXvNTzJjnSEYRgJsQj7K3vFZUt5qDmSg*3D*26reserved*3D0__*3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!Mih3wA!XgF09Z_7Jf5M7eawhdePrcY6Ga6UVHH-Wen9Vq7UBXWfzeFgYdOg20ED5HIi0LWcVay9Jw*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C793f465e2c064597a6ec08d81d52307d*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637291586126510957&sdata=6nJqt0yNh7q*2BN4aRSI6K0*2Blk4LOtg*2BXaN8iNcymVqHk*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUqKioqKioqKioqKioqJSUqKioqKioqKiUlKiolJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!Mih3wA!WBb97M0rnCTuW6rx_rhYvkAPQLCK1TlHV1j2_71whs8hUwhp1NiF5m7opU1Tv5DTGoynHg$>
>
> On Sun, Jun 21, 2020 at 8:24
> PM Anthony Barra
> <anthonymbarra@gmail.com
> <mailto:anthonymbarra@gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
> Sorry, I have no idea what
> you're talking about here,
> although my sense is that
> it's wildly wrong, in
> various ways. I am
> confused but hope you have
> a nice day, regardless.
>
> Anthony
>
>
> On Sunday, June 21, 2020,
> Harshad Dave
> <hhdave15@gmail.com
> <mailto:hhdave15@gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
>
> Atten.: Anthony Barra
> and David Kellog.
>
> Hi,
>
> This is with reference
> to your replies to my
> message. I am thankful
> for the same and
> regret for the delay
> in reply. I used the
> word “apartheid” just
> in the sense of
> racism, complains of
> blacks/brown that they
> are discriminated in
> social dealing by
> whites etc. David
> Kellog - Thanks for
> the detail source of
> the word “apartheid”,
> however I request you
> to take its meaning in
> the same sense as
> expressed above. The
> suggested/recommended
> articles are viewed in
> a glancing by me; I
> recall I have read
> them (one or more) on
> Academia web. You will
> agree their subject
> matter is different.
> Anthony Barra – The
> article that was
> recommended by you is
> read by me and it
> touches on various
> realities in the
> subject matter of our
> topic.
>
> I just put my views
> against the question I
> asked in my message
> dtd. 17 June 2020.
>
> There are two most
> probable answers.
>
> 1.The turned out black
> European people will
> be the victim of
> racism
> (discrimination) by
> the turned out white
> people from African
> origin.
>
> 2.The situation
> remains the same and
> the world will see
> protests and fights on
> an issue or against a
> complaining that the
> black European people
> discriminate white
> people of African
> origin in the USA.
>
> I leave it to the
> readers to give their
> logical consideration
> to the one out of the
> above two, but my
> opinion says the
> second answer will
> hold good, but one
> should not forget it
> is just true on
> hypothetical presumption.
>
> It is a mistake to
> believe that /the
> attitude of
> discrimination/ and
> /sickness of racism
> /harbor in the color
> of the skin. In fact
> above
> altitude/sickness is
> founded on the
> difference of */mental
> socio economic
> formation status/* of
> two men. There is a
> basic difference
> between the two
> statuses of /mental
> socio economic
> formation /of black
> people of African
> origin and that of
> white people of
> European origin. I
> believe that a mass of
> people constituting a
> society with advanced
> socio economic
> formation has fair
> chances to exploit the
> mass of people
> constituting a society
> with backward socio
> economic formation. It
> is equally true for
> two classes of peoples
> at different /mental
> socio economic
> formation status/
> also. But, here (in
> the USA) both the
> classes of people are
> living in the same
> society with one
> /constitution/ and
> uniform /rule of
> laws/. It is absurd to
> believe that the
> present socio economic
> formation of the
> society of the USA
> (21^st century) has
> prevailed and occupied
> equally and uniformly
> by each and every
> citizen of the USA.
> One might find various
> people in the present
> society of the USA
> with different levels
> of /mental socio
> economic formation
> status/. It is really
> a complicated
> situation when the
> society is throughout
> with the latest socio
> economic formation and
> members of the society
> are with varying
> levels of /mental
> socio economic
> formation status/ in
> the same society. Let
> me present part of the
> message of Abraham
> Lincoln before I
> finish this message.
>
> Fourth Debate:
> Charleston, Illinois –
> September 18, 1858.
>
> “/I will say then that
> I am not, nor ever
> have been, in favor of
> bringing about in any
> way the social and
> political equality of
> the white and black
> races, [applause]-that
> I am not nor ever have
> been in favor of
> making voters or
> jurors of negroes, nor
> of qualifying them to
> hold office, nor to
> intermarry with white
> people; and I will say
> in addition to this
> that there is a
> physical difference
> between the white and
> black races which I
> believe will forever
> forbid the two races
> living together on
> terms of social and
> political equality.
> And inasmuch as they
> cannot so live, while
> they do remain
> together there must be
> the position of
> superior and inferior,
> and I as much as any
> other man am in favor
> of having the superior
> position assigned to
> the white race. I say
> upon this occasion I
> do not perceive that
> because the white man
> is to have the
> superior position the
> negro should be denied
> everything./”
>
> Here it is between the
> lines that difference
> in the /mental socio
> economic formation
> status/ could be
> compensated to some
> extent, but for
> equality people with
> backward /mental socio
> economic formation
> status/ will have to
> work hard to develop
> the same.
>
> I clarify, neither I
> am in favor of nor
> against the victims of
> the issue of
> discrimination and
> racism as far as my
> contemplation on the
> subject matter is to
> be carried out. But, I
> just want to explain
> where the real cause
> harbors.
>
> Regards,
>
> Harshad Dave
>
> On Wed, Jun 17, 2020
> at 6:01 PM David
> Kellogg
> <dkellogg60@gmail.com
> <mailto:dkellogg60@gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
> Dear Harshad:
>
> I am still a
> little stunned by
> the last post you
> wrote, with all
> the references to
> predatory
> shopkeepers. It
> sounded like the
> stuff of a pogrom.
> As we discussed in
> the "My Hometown
> Minneapolis"
> thread, the
> threats to
> shopkeepers in
> Minneapolis often
> targeted South
> Asians, and had
> nothing to do with
> the police (except
> that the police
> may have been
> involved and
> certainly
> profitted from the
> looting politically).
>
> "Apartheid" is a
> term invented by
> the South African
> sociologist
> Verwoerd, who
> studied with the
> Gestalists. Some
> Gestaltists, like
> Narziss Ach and
> Felix Krueger,
> became Nazis;
> Verwoerd himself
> became, as you
> probably know,
> prime minister of
> South Africa and
> brought in the
> system of
> apartheid which
> Gandhi struggled
> against during his
> early years. The
> term used in my
> hometown
> Minneapolis is not
> "apartheid" but
> segregation: it is
> euphemistically
> referred to
> as "redlining" (by
> insurance
> companies) and
> "racial covenants"
> but not as
> "apartheid".
>
> Segregation and
> Jim Crow in
> Minneapolis is not
> based on
> pigmentation. Many
> "white" people are
> darker than
> blacks, and many
> black people are
> lighter than
> whites, because of
> the centuries of
> rape and the
> enthusiasm of
> slave owners for
> the practice of
> selling their own
> children. The last
> time I visited the
> "housing
> project"near where
> I grew up it was
> full of Hmong from
> Southeast Asia.
> Segregation in
> Minneapolis is
> above all a matter
> of class.
>
>
> David Kellogg
>
> Sangmyung University
>
> New Article:
> Ruqaiya Hasan, in
> memoriam: A manual
> and a manifesto.
>
> Outlines, Spring 2020
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238__;!!Mih3wA!VhKMxK62RuHFPtSiafVaIhcBWu6Corlc8Jwv8StB7faR8dToPmZRX0GyVindCZzQyYS0Rg$
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fnam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com*2F*3Furl*3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fprotect-za.mimecast.com*2Fs*2FupIcCnZJ6DfGonorTmKJVV*3Fdomain*3Durldefense.com__*3B!!Mih3wA!TSjxRZNvMM9E_Fxpr61FuZbtdmS2LqgbJ1zNHqtehEMf9FHvEvwI66x315TOM1QFm5D1Sg*24*26data*3D02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C3980c805ddde48ffcda308d81ce02bb5*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637291096420312260*26sdata*3D48rGE13OVqkWPVnhjFiSNylK2QVcwv0QdnNA8wK5FAs*3D*26reserved*3D0__*3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!Mih3wA!XgF09Z_7Jf5M7eawhdePrcY6Ga6UVHH-Wen9Vq7UBXWfzeFgYdOg20ED5HIi0LWnwBgkFQ*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C793f465e2c064597a6ec08d81d52307d*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637291586126520951&sdata=88BbNhD6*2FmmQzffuRDyBaYwKZfDaCDT3DCF66dpNNp0*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUqKioqKioqKioqKioqJSUqKioqKioqKiUlKiUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!Mih3wA!WBb97M0rnCTuW6rx_rhYvkAPQLCK1TlHV1j2_71whs8hUwhp1NiF5m7opU1Tv5D9JZHtUQ$>
>
> New Translation
> with Nikolai
> Veresov: /L.S.
> Vygotsky's
> Pedological Works/
> /Volume One:
> Foundations of
> Pedology/"
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!VhKMxK62RuHFPtSiafVaIhcBWu6Corlc8Jwv8StB7faR8dToPmZRX0GyVindCZyjtPXbHQ$
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fnam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com*2F*3Furl*3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fprotect-za.mimecast.com*2Fs*2FLoX3CoYJXETXzkz6Sou7BK*3Fdomain*3Durldefense.com__*3B!!Mih3wA!TSjxRZNvMM9E_Fxpr61FuZbtdmS2LqgbJ1zNHqtehEMf9FHvEvwI66x315TOM1Teajel2w*24*26data*3D02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C3980c805ddde48ffcda308d81ce02bb5*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637291096420312260*26sdata*3DjFBhtcF6gTADU80eX0zibV4bSgRnu*2F4q9EZ5yIIFkR8*3D*26reserved*3D0__*3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!Mih3wA!XgF09Z_7Jf5M7eawhdePrcY6Ga6UVHH-Wen9Vq7UBXWfzeFgYdOg20ED5HIi0LXjo_wz8A*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C793f465e2c064597a6ec08d81d52307d*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637291586126520951&sdata=1lcgRL12fJ2HnDExtj9*2FOkYBu3bO*2BX*2B1XaJVrDJsvHE*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUqKioqKioqKioqKioqJSUqKioqKioqKiUlKiolJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!Mih3wA!WBb97M0rnCTuW6rx_rhYvkAPQLCK1TlHV1j2_71whs8hUwhp1NiF5m7opU1Tv5CAh3e6_g$>
>
> On Wed, Jun 17,
> 2020 at 4:16 PM
> Harshad Dave
> <hhdave15@gmail.com
> <mailto:hhdave15@gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
> Dear all there,
>
> We all are
> aware of the
> event of the
> death of
> George Floyd
> in the USA
> under police
> custody. There
> are flows of
> opinions,
> comments and
> views on the
> event with
> different
> aspects all
> over the
> world. There
> are debates
> and
> discussions on
> the event on
> innumerable
> web sites, we
> find them in
> newspapers and
> among the
> talks of
> people at
> private and
> public places.
> We just do not
> talk about
> riots and
> other events
> happened under
> agony and out
> burst of anger
> on the
> unfortunate
> death of
> Floyd,
> however, voice
> against
> apartheid was
> the major cry
> behind them.
>
> Though there
> are various
> vital aspects
> of the event,
> */apartheid/*
> remained prime
> of them.
>
> I simply ask
> one question
> to my friends
> who read this
> post.
>
> Let us
> hypothetically presume,
> on one day
> fine morning,
> when people of
> the USA awake,
> they find that
> skin color of
> all the blacks
> is changed to
> perfectly
> white like
> european
> people and the
> skin color of
> all the
> europeans
> changed to
> black like negro.
>
> I ask my
> friends, "What
> will be the
> status of
> */apartheid/*
> in this
> situation?"
>
> NB: I write
> one article on
> the ill fated
> event and its
> aspects. Your
> views on the
> above question
> will help me
> to write my
> views with
> more clarity
> in the article.
>
> Regards,
>
> Harshad Dave
>
> This communication is intended for the
> addressee only. It is confidential. If you
> have received this communication in error,
> please notify us immediately and destroy the
> original message. You may not copy or
> disseminate this communication without the
> permission of the University. Only authorised
> signatories are competent to enter into
> agreements on behalf of the University and
> recipients are thus advised that the content
> of this message may not be legally binding on
> the University and may contain the personal
> views and opinions of the author, which are
> not necessarily the views and opinions of The
> University of the Witwatersrand, Johannesburg.
> All agreements between the University and
> outsiders are subject to South African Law
> unless the University agrees in writing to the
> contrary.
>
> This communication is intended for the
> addressee only. It is confidential. If you
> have received this communication in error,
> please notify us immediately and destroy the
> original message. You may not copy or
> disseminate this communication without the
> permission of the University. Only authorised
> signatories are competent to enter into
> agreements on behalf of the University and
> recipients are thus advised that the content
> of this message may not be legally binding on
> the University and may contain the personal
> views and opinions of the author, which are
> not necessarily the views and opinions of The
> University of the Witwatersrand, Johannesburg.
> All agreements between the University and
> outsiders are subject to South African Law
> unless the University agrees in writing to the
> contrary.
>
> This communication is intended for the addressee only.
> It is confidential. If you have received this
> communication in error, please notify us immediately
> and destroy the original message. You may not copy or
> disseminate this communication without the permission
> of the University. Only authorised signatories are
> competent to enter into agreements on behalf of the
> University and recipients are thus advised that the
> content of this message may not be legally binding on
> the University and may contain the personal views and
> opinions of the author, which are not necessarily the
> views and opinions of The University of the
> Witwatersrand, Johannesburg. All agreements between
> the University and outsiders are subject to South
> African Law unless the University agrees in writing to
> the contrary.
>
> This communication is intended for the addressee only.
> It is confidential. If you have received this
> communication in error, please notify us immediately
> and destroy the original message. You may not copy or
> disseminate this communication without the permission
> of the University. Only authorised signatories are
> competent to enter into agreements on behalf of the
> University and recipients are thus advised that the
> content of this message may not be legally binding on
> the University and may contain the personal views and
> opinions of the author, which are not necessarily the
> views and opinions of The University of the
> Witwatersrand, Johannesburg. All agreements between
> the University and outsiders are subject to South
> African Law unless the University agrees in writing to
> the contrary.
>
>
> --
>
> /Crush human humanity out of shape once more, under
> similar hammers, and it will twist itself into the same
> tortured forms. Sow the same seed of rapacious license and
> oppression over again, and it will surely yield the same
> fruit, according to its kind. C.Dickens.///
>
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> Cultural Praxis Website: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://culturalpraxis.net__;!!Mih3wA!VhKMxK62RuHFPtSiafVaIhcBWu6Corlc8Jwv8StB7faR8dToPmZRX0GyVindCZxNHO7omQ$
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__http*3A*2F*2Fculturalpraxis.net__*3B!!Mih3wA!QCD7ed0aCRAAlp7GdBrl0meYtbgs9bxM8e7Zg-RtwtTHcq2MHVUupotmjSed87yLDuCHZw*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C793f465e2c064597a6ec08d81d52307d*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637291586126530945&sdata=5LjEq1XvAR*2BMrBStFTLZaFa1c4NelZzHx70XpOdZIGs*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!Mih3wA!WBb97M0rnCTuW6rx_rhYvkAPQLCK1TlHV1j2_71whs8hUwhp1NiF5m7opU1Tv5D6Q8J-ug$>
>
> Re-generating CHAT Website: re-generatingchat.com
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__http*3A*2F*2Fre-generatingchat.com__*3B!!Mih3wA!QCD7ed0aCRAAlp7GdBrl0meYtbgs9bxM8e7Zg-RtwtTHcq2MHVUupotmjSed87wJgFlcLQ*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C793f465e2c064597a6ec08d81d52307d*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637291586126530945&sdata=y0fjoTy7q*2FaS4aehqa498ZmA*2BCGc5YKHKfpqFsTCkU8*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!Mih3wA!WBb97M0rnCTuW6rx_rhYvkAPQLCK1TlHV1j2_71whs8hUwhp1NiF5m7opU1Tv5A0Mi-Www$>
>
> Archival resources website: lchc.ucsd.edu
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http*3A*2F*2Flchc.ucsd.edu*2F&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C793f465e2c064597a6ec08d81d52307d*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637291586126530945&sdata=w4qBmTBaHcsDcWNWDng*2BsGJmXfVeyDLadOT2LGk*2BnQY*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!Mih3wA!WBb97M0rnCTuW6rx_rhYvkAPQLCK1TlHV1j2_71whs8hUwhp1NiF5m7opU1Tv5AA6HKAzQ$>.
>
> Narrative history of LCHC: lchcautobio.ucsd.edu
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http*3A*2F*2Flchcautobio.ucsd.edu*2F&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C793f465e2c064597a6ec08d81d52307d*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637291586126540943&sdata=kuWY2Cg3o8*2BYqNN9mYW*2F0hySoiDMY8*2Fr4wOnEMTLm5g*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!Mih3wA!WBb97M0rnCTuW6rx_rhYvkAPQLCK1TlHV1j2_71whs8hUwhp1NiF5m7opU1Tv5BxW7cgFg$>.
>
>
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