[Xmca-l] Re: My Hometown Minneapolis

Wed Jun 10 13:45:25 PDT 2020

Yes, Greg.

I read all it all in depth 4 years ago (i.e., 4 years before this topic
broached your radar).

Maybe one day we'll chat when I have faith it will be in good faith.

No offense, but it's just how your body of work comes across to me.

Anthony

On Wednesday, June 10, 2020, Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Anthony,
> Have you had a chance to dig into the Fryer data to see whether the
> assumptions that he makes in controlling for variables are reasonable? And
> whether he is justified in coming up with such a very different conclusion
> from the Washington Post research that Martin cited (as well as most
> other research that I've seen)?
> In your original post, you characterized Fryer's study as "groundbreaking"
> so I assume that you had your reasons for giving it such a positive
> evaluation and felt it was sound in its reasoning and perhaps had some
> kinds of insights that all the other researchers didn't. I'm interested to
> hear what you've turned up.
> Very best,
> greg
>
> On Wed, Jun 10, 2020 at 1:31 PM Martin Packer <mpacker@cantab.net> wrote:
>
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/__;!!Mih3wA!TD8KCL_NzhbLzyBNHeH6fuPksCb9MEXVt8JvsjseITRKYIOetZxV8jezYmFlaMUVXcKh6w$ 
>> police-shootings-database/
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/__;!!Mih3wA!S2mWxWtYZXktNivc9GOaZzE8nQoqJ0TmLqnTuoEidjOQew2pZXQQZXmnKCt6MMPHQ4YmFA$>
>>
>> In 2015, The Washington Post began to log every fatal shooting
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-year-end/__;!!Mih3wA!S2mWxWtYZXktNivc9GOaZzE8nQoqJ0TmLqnTuoEidjOQew2pZXQQZXmnKCt6MMPUoulQDQ$> by
>> an on-duty police officer in the United States. In that time there have
>> been more than 5,000 such shootings
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/08/09/what-weve-learned-about-police-shootings-years-after-ferguson/?arc404=true__;!!Mih3wA!S2mWxWtYZXktNivc9GOaZzE8nQoqJ0TmLqnTuoEidjOQew2pZXQQZXmnKCt6MMNSVXVYTg$> recorded
>> by The Post….
>>
>> Although half of the people shot and killed by police are white, black
>> Americans are shot at a disproportionate rate
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/07/11/arent-more-white-people-than-black-people-killed-by-police-yes-but-no/__;!!Mih3wA!S2mWxWtYZXktNivc9GOaZzE8nQoqJ0TmLqnTuoEidjOQew2pZXQQZXmnKCt6MMNVto8f_A$>.
>> They account for less than 13 percent of the U.S. population, but are
>> killed by police at more than twice the rate of white Americans. Hispanic
>> Americans are also killed by police at a disproportionate rate.
>>
>>
>> Martin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 7, 2020, at 12:42 PM, Anthony Barra <anthonymbarra@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Michael,
>>
>> Much of the claim rests in Roland Freyer's 2016 multivariate analysis,
>> groundbreaking at the time (though I don't know the very latest findings on
>> the matter): https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/12/upshot/__;!!Mih3wA!TD8KCL_NzhbLzyBNHeH6fuPksCb9MEXVt8JvsjseITRKYIOetZxV8jezYmFlaMWKxhlSzQ$ 
>> surprising-new-evidence-shows-bias-in-police-use-of-force-
>> but-not-in-shootings.html
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/12/upshot/surprising-new-evidence-shows-bias-in-police-use-of-force-but-not-in-shootings.html__;!!Mih3wA!S18nvB-bJf3z_eNSjHPT3rWUU-YDJmOewUS-_eVjP4nwhyrQvSiFE_5aqUIHnjG437QrnA$>
>>
>>
>> I believe Glenn Loury was once his advisor in graduate economics, though
>> I could be mistaken there.
>>
>> I respect this community and in no way seek to bring dis- or
>> misinformation into it, especially on topics that may require numerous key
>> strokes just to get one's footing.
>>
>> Thank you for understanding, and I agree! Let's not argue.
>>
>> Anthony
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, June 7, 2020, Glassman, Michael <glassman.13@osu.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> Black men are 2.5 more likely to be killed by police than white men.
>>> What makes this much, much worse is that most Black men are taught from
>>> very early in life the dangers they face in dealing with police and have
>>> strategies set for de-escalation. The first point you can get with a few
>>> key strokes. The second point maybe you have to live in the U.S. for.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I do not believe the Loury McWhorter argument is based on any well
>>> founded social science.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What I find difficult about this is that XMCA, whose earlier versions
>>> was one of the earliest well-functioning communities is being use to
>>> proliferate this type of information, or I would say misinformation. The
>>> list has always run with minimalist moderation but I wonder if it is
>>> possible in this day and age.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> These are observations. I have no desire to argue about this with
>>> anybody.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>> *On Behalf Of *Bill Kerr
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, June 7, 2020 3:59 AM
>>> *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: My Hometown Minneapolis
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> hi Anthony,
>>>
>>> I watched both videos.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Coleman Hughes argues that the Black Lives Matter movement is based on a
>>> half truth. True that the police treat blacks worse. Not true that they
>>> murder disproportionately more blacks than whites. The problem with the
>>> police is corruption (not being independently investigated) not
>>> disproportionate murder of black people.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Glen Loury and John McWhorter teach me the real history of American
>>> race, that things have moved on, progress has been made since Lincoln and
>>> MLKing, and the importance of identifying the real reasons of black
>>> disadvantage, arising paradoxically from the 1960s, and not that racism is
>>> the American DNA. eg. the meme that school is a white persons domain arose
>>> in part from the bussing movement which gave many blacks a terrible school
>>> experience.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> There are some parallels in Australia, eg. welfare dependency which is
>>> one of the biggest if not the biggest problem for aboriginals here arose
>>> from the chain events which followed from the 1967 referendum where they
>>> were recognised at citizens for the first time. This led to equal pay which
>>> led to aboriginal workers being sacked which led to welfare dependency
>>> which led to grog which led to more black on black violence etc. This
>>> history has been written, eg. by Peter Sutton, The Politics of Suffering,
>>> but is still not widely understood.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 10:38 AM Anthony Barra <anthonymbarra@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm hearing people talk of cabin fever and itchy scratchy restlessness,
>>> and I think that is one unifying thing that almost everyone here can relate
>>> to!  What a year so far.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I promise, these two conversations are very interesting, for anyone
>>> potentially curious:
>>>
>>> First, this one https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hWQmzgiKXQ__;!!Mih3wA!TD8KCL_NzhbLzyBNHeH6fuPksCb9MEXVt8JvsjseITRKYIOetZxV8jezYmFlaMWtFODWKA$ 
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hWQmzgiKXQ__;!!Mih3wA!XgM3_X1riF_AYwqfZ7zTT0dslCVEzwkmg1Kw-a63ReNKrqh653kZrirxQ_TR4yBatxTfPw$> featuring
>>> Glenn Loury and John McWhorter -- piggybacking on the 1619 Project link
>>> that Martin shared earlier today (thanks for sharing that)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> and in my honest opinion, this is the single most down-the-middle
>>> commentary on recent events in the US, via Coleman Hughes:
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://youtu.be/8C-VrsK93GE__;!!Mih3wA!TD8KCL_NzhbLzyBNHeH6fuPksCb9MEXVt8JvsjseITRKYIOetZxV8jezYmFlaMVR3r1KRw$ 
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/youtu.be/8C-VrsK93GE__;!!Mih3wA!XgM3_X1riF_AYwqfZ7zTT0dslCVEzwkmg1Kw-a63ReNKrqh653kZrirxQ_TR4yB6mIcWCw$>
>>>   (as least as far as I've yet encountered).  Coleman shares his
>>> perspective as a protest attendee, and also much more than that.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Somewhat of a warning: there's a fair amount of pain expressed in these
>>> videos, but not exactly conventional, as these commentaries do cut against
>>> the headwinds a fair amount.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Anthony
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 8:43 PM Annalisa Aguilar <annalisa@unm.edu>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> To the wonderful garden of Us and Them,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm not sure why I wrote that, it just seemed to come out. Like the riot
>>> of expression that gobsmacked me as I saw this thread extending to 46,
>>> including mine, though I know the tapestry is still weaving us and them
>>> here and in the streets for a little while still.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> To whoever said it, I don't think that it's that people don't like the
>>> color of Trump's hair, but his orange-ness, which makes it so strange for
>>> him to promote white supremacy. An black star enigma surrounded by a riddle
>>> small waving hands wrapped in a spray tan. It should be orange supremacy,
>>> shouldn't it?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I also wanted to offer, for those of us who organize peaceful protest,
>>> we must also have a bullet-proof strategy (pun intended) to counter
>>> violently-intentioned infiltrators. This strategy must have enough cheeky
>>> chutzpah to bend the myth that peaceful protesters are namby-pambies with
>>> flowers in their hair. Does this exist? Has it been designed?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have seen people yell down a few no-nos running about by yelling in
>>> unison NO VIOLENCE! NO VIOLENCE! It worked.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> NO Vi-Oh-LENCE!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Perhaps it has to do with spacing and cadence, something David might
>>> appreciate.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We learn violence, and then we must unlearn it. Violence is an act of
>>> desperation once enough people feel disrespected, if even the number is
>>> just one.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Of course my suggestion may not be the best possible, but I wonder if
>>> there is such an on-the-ground ad hoc strategy for aikido maneuvers by
>>> peaceful protesters to differentiate themselves from chaotic pretenders and
>>> the police who need them to be pretending chaotically, so they can
>>> rationalize their dear riot gear.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Now the antifa, on the other hand, have a wonderful moniker, sly and
>>> clever how it doesn't weave "fascism" into it fully, the way it is
>>> referential in function, like if I were to say, "Don't think of an elepha."
>>> They are like crouching tigers and hidden dragons, black ninjas who
>>> architect surprise. It's almost performance art. At the same time like
>>> watching a pincer move, in action with peaceful protesters, It's a
>>> beautiful think. Cornell West wrote recently in the Guardian that if the
>>> antifa were not present in Charlottesville he may have been killed. So I
>>> wondered about that coupling of forces. Is that what appears to be
>>> solidifying in the rhythms of the recent protests? What do other's think?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I can't speak to the looting, as I would never ever do it. I remember
>>> coming across the concept or looting when I was challenged by my friends in
>>> 7th grade to read all of Gone With the Wind. And that they shot and killed
>>> looters on the spot. I supposed that concept too has gone out the window.
>>> Not that I'd want to see that mind you, but it is punny.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> There were curfews for a few days, but it's been lifted as of a few
>>> nights back. As I am writing this I am hearing helicopters circling. This
>>> morning I drove down a street with many business having their windows
>>> boarded up. There were no people rioting or anything like that. I think
>>> these folks are fearful of having their plate glass windows smashed in the
>>> night by a fictitious rioting hurricane, that will just not happen on that
>>> street. But then there is no way to see into those shops now. I thought
>>> maybe they are just duck-and-covering under all that plywood. Is anyone in
>>> there?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I also saw someone had spray painted the words in black drippy spray
>>> paint on a white sheet. "White Silence is Violence" and this was hanging in
>>> a gentrified neighborhood. It seemed the perfect place to hang it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I also wanted to ask the list whether it is only racism that we are
>>> protesting?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> There was a tech who came to install my internet today. He is African
>>> American. I asked him, "Did you hear about all the protests all over the
>>> world? When I heard about it I started crying." To which he said, "Yeah,
>>> well but what about the other two guys that were killed? I think all those
>>> people came out because being shut in they just have nothing better to do."
>>> I said, "Well I understand that's a cynical way to look at it, but maybe
>>> it's a sign that something is going to change." He said, "Yeah, maybe it
>>> will." And I said, "Let's remain hopeful."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I really appreciated that exchange. Together he and I made an
>>> interesting dyad of viewpoints about what is actually going on here.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My own consciousness about race is exposed here, but I thought the
>>> entire point of racism is to reduce people to a construct that is somehow
>>> built upon genetic features, like skin color, and then to layer that with
>>> this color is better than that one, and even to dehumanize one color from
>>> another, ir I should say to create a spectrum of dehumanization, light to
>>> heavy.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Then I thought also that the point is to Eracism, not to perpetuate more
>>> of it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My next thought was about people with disabilities. They are likely far
>>> more oppressed than any other vulnerable group. I don't think we could ever
>>> fathom disabled folks rioting in the streets for being killed in many ways
>>> the the disabled are, or who have their lives reduced by being
>>> institutionalized because of the bodies in which they were born.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The same might be said about the seriously mentally ill. As a mental
>>> exercise take any oppressed group and fill that space.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I was following the bead of this comparison in my mind to think about
>>> how would inclusivity of the disabled in protest be provided in a time like
>>> now? (Give we are making room for kids to protest?) Or are the disabled
>>> even left behind while everyone else has the privilege to protest?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The only thing I feel might be a conclusion is that we fight for human
>>> rights and for non-violence, but also for inclusivity and our innate right
>>> to love one another.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> That everyone every single one of us matters. When every single one of
>>> us matters, there is no need to distinguish favorites, up or down, left or
>>> right.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> That day is not here yet because only some of us matters, and some of us
>>> doesn't.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm not big on Biden, but he is one of the first mainstreamers to
>>> vocalize that we have an open wound that needs dressing.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Then I thought how Biden has the privilege of saying that outright where
>>> Obama was not. My memory might be incorrect, however, it was only until
>>> Fergusen that Obama came out to speak but only in a very circumspect tone,
>>> if only that he could not be bridled as an angry black man.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I wondered if anyone might present an imagination of what positive
>>> change might develop out of all of this, if you are able to shush the
>>> cynic-within.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Or is my cable internet guy right? The protests are just a holiday, a
>>> way to get out of the house because too many of us have cabin fever.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you all in advance for your contributions.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Annalisa
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <
>>> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
> --
> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
> Assistant Professor
> Department of Anthropology
> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
> Brigham Young University
> Provo, UT 84602
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>
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