[Xmca-l] Re: My Hometown Minneapolis

[Haydi Zulfei]

Hi All,
I forgot to use my gmail. Please trust the other e-mail with the
rocketmail.
Best wishes
Haydi

On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 1:10 AM Annalisa Aguilar <annalisa@unm.edu> wrote:

> Hi Alfredo and venerable others,
>
> I want to know if there is something to be done. Something we can do in
> our own communities.
>
> Is it about writing letters and throwing our support at various levels of
> government concerning police brutality in our communities?
>
> Writing your board of supervisors, your mayor, your state legislators,
> congresspeople and senators of your state (If you are in the US).
>
> I mean it seems futile to write letters, but I might argue that the
> Vietnam War ended not from protest because of defunding by Congress.
>
> Though I do acknowledge that true academic pursuit cannot but include
> social justice. I feel we must create choices other than a belief that the
> only actions are to deliver a Molotov Cocktail into a police car. That act
> doesn't work even on a symbolic level.
>
> Perhaps this is a good and worthy strategy to just write a letter of
> concern and request for real change. If you can't do it alone, then make up
> a group and write a letter together.
>
> So how about: Start a dialogue with someone off this list and use the
> power of your words to speak truth to power.
>
> Silence is violence.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Annalisa
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> on behalf of Alfredo Jornet Gil <a.j.gil@ils.uio.no>
> *Sent:* Sunday, June 7, 2020 1:29 PM
> *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: My Hometown Minneapolis
>
>
> *  [EXTERNAL]*
>
> Thanks Anthony and all. I agree with Annalisa that we cannot and should
> not reduce the issue to statistics, to who’s got them bigger. If one was to
> try, though, one can find other studies arguing that there is an important
> disproportion:
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/full/10.2105/AJPH.2016.303575__;!!Mih3wA!X4kj6d30RkDuSakXVroTiazU71mDaLVGnfAQMZirE58VzqwrSUm-14PPzmTMq2Kn3PkUeg$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/full/10.2105/AJPH.2016.303575__;!!Mih3wA!RJGsTBqGyZ49q-uXZET0wo-vNzwITxoXb-OyyUVY9zVv9eLx6elbQCX9pi9ciNDMUgj5cQ$>
> --- or showing that there not only are more killings by police, but that
> police’s killing of others impact men and women of color’s mental health
> disproportionally more:
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0140673618311309?casa_token=HmfTJf26m_8AAAAA:02hbAWacoaIeoTMt1oEId4T2pSgud_ZCd481ey9Wsqg9OD6Ul5gnUGBeP2U87Lcd4e0d8f4q5Q__;!!Mih3wA!X4kj6d30RkDuSakXVroTiazU71mDaLVGnfAQMZirE58VzqwrSUm-14PPzmTMq2IChvmU1Q$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0140673618311309?casa_token=HmfTJf26m_8AAAAA:02hbAWacoaIeoTMt1oEId4T2pSgud_ZCd481ey9Wsqg9OD6Ul5gnUGBeP2U87Lcd4e0d8f4q5Q__;!!Mih3wA!RJGsTBqGyZ49q-uXZET0wo-vNzwITxoXb-OyyUVY9zVv9eLx6elbQCX9pi9ciNB9BMnlTg$>
>
>
>
> So data is important, and we must stay woke in a critical way, as Martin’s
> quotation suggests. But I think Annalisa’s point is crucial: it is at least
> curious that we would be talking about the statistics rather than listening
> and responding and being response-able to a social reality we can see with
> our eyes in ways that can open for more just societies. I hear Annalisa’s
> call to be “less academic”, but I think that being academic should be
> precisely about that, not just the rigor, but the striving towards justice
> too. I think that finding ways, in the social sciences, to be responsive
> and response-able to the circumstances we are living demands of lots of
> empathy and imagination to be able to pose the adequate research questions
> and methods.
>
>
>
> Alfredo
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *<xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> on behalf of Martin Packer <
> mpacker@cantab.net>
> *Reply to: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> *Date: *Sunday, 7 June 2020 at 20:11
> *To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: My Hometown Minneapolis
>
>
>
> Hi Anthony,
>
>
>
> Fryer has an updated analysis on his webpage:
>
>
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://scholar.harvard.edu/fryer/publications__;!!Mih3wA!X4kj6d30RkDuSakXVroTiazU71mDaLVGnfAQMZirE58VzqwrSUm-14PPzmTMq2ImG8L-Iw$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/scholar.harvard.edu/fryer/publications__;!!Mih3wA!Uf-H0OZ5ZzdWoPoMlrjb0_URLgBWQH6dYcldXen_NnuTZqhL76BCYIwVItrpKbkfzjPMwQ$>
>
>
>
> Roland G Fryer J. Reconciling Results on Racial Differences in Police
> Shootings
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/scholar.harvard.edu/fryer/publications/reconciling-results-racial-differences-police-shootings__;!!Mih3wA!Uf-H0OZ5ZzdWoPoMlrjb0_URLgBWQH6dYcldXen_NnuTZqhL76BCYIwVItrpKbnuwLJ6DQ$>.
> American Economic Review (Papers and Proceedings). Forthcoming
>
>
>
> Here are his conclusions:
>
> IV. Conclusion
>
> The time has come for a national reckoning on race and policing in
> America. But, the issues are thorny and the conclusions one can draw about
> racial bias are fraught with difficulty. The most granular data suggest
> that there is no bias in police shootings (Fryer (forthcoming)), but
> these data are far from a representative sample of police departments and
> do not contain any experimental variation. We cannot rest. We need more and
> better data. With the advances in natural language processing and the
> increased willingness of police departments to share sensitive data, we can
> make progress.
>
> For those of us who desire a more perfect union, police use of force has
> become our Gettysburg. Of course, black lives matter as much as any other
> lives. Yet, we do this principle a disservice if we do not adhere to strict
> standards of evidence and take at face value descriptive statistics that
> are consistent with our preconceived ideas. ‘Stay Woke’ – but critically so.
>
>
>
>  Martin
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 7, 2020, at 12:42 PM, Anthony Barra <anthonymbarra@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi Michael,
>
>
>
> Much of the claim rests in Roland Freyer's 2016 multivariate analysis,
> groundbreaking at the time (though I don't know the very latest findings on
> the matter):
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/12/upshot/surprising-new-evidence-shows-bias-in-police-use-of-force-but-not-in-shootings.html__;!!Mih3wA!X4kj6d30RkDuSakXVroTiazU71mDaLVGnfAQMZirE58VzqwrSUm-14PPzmTMq2Jre8jiBg$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.nytimes.com/2016/07/12/upshot/surprising-new-evidence-shows-bias-in-police-use-of-force-but-not-in-shootings.html__;!!Mih3wA!S18nvB-bJf3z_eNSjHPT3rWUU-YDJmOewUS-_eVjP4nwhyrQvSiFE_5aqUIHnjG437QrnA$>
>
>
>
>
> I believe Glenn Loury was once his advisor in graduate economics, though I
> could be mistaken there.
>
>
>
> I respect this community and in no way seek to bring dis- or
> misinformation into it, especially on topics that may require numerous key
> strokes just to get one's footing.
>
>
>
> Thank you for understanding, and I agree! Let's not argue.
>
>
>
> Anthony
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sunday, June 7, 2020, Glassman, Michael <glassman.13@osu.edu> wrote:
>
> Black men are 2.5 more likely to be killed by police than white men. What
> makes this much, much worse is that most Black men are taught from very
> early in life the dangers they face in dealing with police and have
> strategies set for de-escalation. The first point you can get with a few
> key strokes. The second point maybe you have to live in the U.S. for.
>
>
>
> I do not believe the Loury McWhorter argument is based on any well founded
> social science.
>
>
>
> What I find difficult about this is that XMCA, whose earlier versions was
> one of the earliest well-functioning communities is being use to
> proliferate this type of information, or I would say misinformation. The
> list has always run with minimalist moderation but I wonder if it is
> possible in this day and age.
>
>
>
> These are observations. I have no desire to argue about this with anybody.
>
>
>
> Michael
>
>
>
> *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> *On
> Behalf Of *Bill Kerr
> *Sent:* Sunday, June 7, 2020 3:59 AM
> *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: My Hometown Minneapolis
>
>
>
> hi Anthony,
>
> I watched both videos.
>
>
>
> Coleman Hughes argues that the Black Lives Matter movement is based on a
> half truth. True that the police treat blacks worse. Not true that they
> murder disproportionately more blacks than whites. The problem with the
> police is corruption (not being independently investigated) not
> disproportionate murder of black people.
>
>
>
> Glen Loury and John McWhorter teach me the real history of American race,
> that things have moved on, progress has been made since Lincoln and MLKing,
> and the importance of identifying the real reasons of black disadvantage,
> arising paradoxically from the 1960s, and not that racism is the American
> DNA. eg. the meme that school is a white persons domain arose in part from
> the bussing movement which gave many blacks a terrible school experience.
>
>
>
> There are some parallels in Australia, eg. welfare dependency which is one
> of the biggest if not the biggest problem for aboriginals here arose from
> the chain events which followed from the 1967 referendum where they were
> recognised at citizens for the first time. This led to equal pay which led
> to aboriginal workers being sacked which led to welfare dependency which
> led to grog which led to more black on black violence etc. This history has
> been written, eg. by Peter Sutton, The Politics of Suffering, but is still
> not widely understood.
>
>
>
> Thank you
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 10:38 AM Anthony Barra <anthonymbarra@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> I'm hearing people talk of cabin fever and itchy scratchy restlessness,
> and I think that is one unifying thing that almost everyone here can relate
> to!  What a year so far.
>
>
>
> I promise, these two conversations are very interesting, for anyone
> potentially curious:
>
> First, this one https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hWQmzgiKXQ__;!!Mih3wA!X4kj6d30RkDuSakXVroTiazU71mDaLVGnfAQMZirE58VzqwrSUm-14PPzmTMq2LD15NbwQ$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hWQmzgiKXQ__;!!Mih3wA!XgM3_X1riF_AYwqfZ7zTT0dslCVEzwkmg1Kw-a63ReNKrqh653kZrirxQ_TR4yBatxTfPw$> featuring
> Glenn Loury and John McWhorter -- piggybacking on the 1619 Project link
> that Martin shared earlier today (thanks for sharing that)
>
>
>
> and in my honest opinion, this is the single most down-the-middle
> commentary on recent events in the US, via Coleman Hughes:
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://youtu.be/8C-VrsK93GE__;!!Mih3wA!X4kj6d30RkDuSakXVroTiazU71mDaLVGnfAQMZirE58VzqwrSUm-14PPzmTMq2KnBkxT7A$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/youtu.be/8C-VrsK93GE__;!!Mih3wA!XgM3_X1riF_AYwqfZ7zTT0dslCVEzwkmg1Kw-a63ReNKrqh653kZrirxQ_TR4yB6mIcWCw$>
>   (as least as far as I've yet encountered).  Coleman shares his
> perspective as a protest attendee, and also much more than that.
>
>
>
> Somewhat of a warning: there's a fair amount of pain expressed in these
> videos, but not exactly conventional, as these commentaries do cut against
> the headwinds a fair amount.
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
>
>
> Anthony
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 8:43 PM Annalisa Aguilar <annalisa@unm.edu> wrote:
>
> To the wonderful garden of Us and Them,
>
>
>
> I'm not sure why I wrote that, it just seemed to come out. Like the riot
> of expression that gobsmacked me as I saw this thread extending to 46,
> including mine, though I know the tapestry is still weaving us and them
> here and in the streets for a little while still.
>
>
>
> To whoever said it, I don't think that it's that people don't like the
> color of Trump's hair, but his orange-ness, which makes it so strange for
> him to promote white supremacy. An black star enigma surrounded by a riddle
> small waving hands wrapped in a spray tan. It should be orange supremacy,
> shouldn't it?
>
>
>
> I also wanted to offer, for those of us who organize peaceful protest, we
> must also have a bullet-proof strategy (pun intended) to counter
> violently-intentioned infiltrators. This strategy must have enough cheeky
> chutzpah to bend the myth that peaceful protesters are namby-pambies with
> flowers in their hair. Does this exist? Has it been designed?
>
>
>
> I have seen people yell down a few no-nos running about by yelling in
> unison NO VIOLENCE! NO VIOLENCE! It worked.
>
>
>
> NO Vi-Oh-LENCE!
>
>
>
> Perhaps it has to do with spacing and cadence, something David might
> appreciate.
>
>
>
> We learn violence, and then we must unlearn it. Violence is an act of
> desperation once enough people feel disrespected, if even the number is
> just one.
>
>
>
> Of course my suggestion may not be the best possible, but I wonder if
> there is such an on-the-ground ad hoc strategy for aikido maneuvers by
> peaceful protesters to differentiate themselves from chaotic pretenders and
> the police who need them to be pretending chaotically, so they can
> rationalize their dear riot gear.
>
>
>
> Now the antifa, on the other hand, have a wonderful moniker, sly and
> clever how it doesn't weave "fascism" into it fully, the way it is
> referential in function, like if I were to say, "Don't think of an elepha."
> They are like crouching tigers and hidden dragons, black ninjas who
> architect surprise. It's almost performance art. At the same time like
> watching a pincer move, in action with peaceful protesters, It's a
> beautiful think. Cornell West wrote recently in the Guardian that if the
> antifa were not present in Charlottesville he may have been killed. So I
> wondered about that coupling of forces. Is that what appears to be
> solidifying in the rhythms of the recent protests? What do other's think?
>
>
>
> I can't speak to the looting, as I would never ever do it. I remember
> coming across the concept or looting when I was challenged by my friends in
> 7th grade to read all of Gone With the Wind. And that they shot and killed
> looters on the spot. I supposed that concept too has gone out the window.
> Not that I'd want to see that mind you, but it is punny.
>
>
>
> There were curfews for a few days, but it's been lifted as of a few nights
> back. As I am writing this I am hearing helicopters circling. This morning
> I drove down a street with many business having their windows boarded up.
> There were no people rioting or anything like that. I think these folks are
> fearful of having their plate glass windows smashed in the night by a
> fictitious rioting hurricane, that will just not happen on that street. But
> then there is no way to see into those shops now. I thought maybe they are
> just duck-and-covering under all that plywood. Is anyone in there?
>
>
>
> I also saw someone had spray painted the words in black drippy spray paint
> on a white sheet. "White Silence is Violence" and this was hanging in a
> gentrified neighborhood. It seemed the perfect place to hang it.
>
>
>
> I also wanted to ask the list whether it is only racism that we are
> protesting?
>
>
>
> There was a tech who came to install my internet today. He is African
> American. I asked him, "Did you hear about all the protests all over the
> world? When I heard about it I started crying." To which he said, "Yeah,
> well but what about the other two guys that were killed? I think all those
> people came out because being shut in they just have nothing better to do."
> I said, "Well I understand that's a cynical way to look at it, but maybe
> it's a sign that something is going to change." He said, "Yeah, maybe it
> will." And I said, "Let's remain hopeful."
>
>
>
> I really appreciated that exchange. Together he and I made an interesting
> dyad of viewpoints about what is actually going on here.
>
>
>
> My own consciousness about race is exposed here, but I thought the entire
> point of racism is to reduce people to a construct that is somehow built
> upon genetic features, like skin color, and then to layer that with this
> color is better than that one, and even to dehumanize one color from
> another, ir I should say to create a spectrum of dehumanization, light to
> heavy.
>
>
>
> Then I thought also that the point is to Eracism, not to perpetuate more
> of it.
>
>
>
> My next thought was about people with disabilities. They are likely far
> more oppressed than any other vulnerable group. I don't think we could ever
> fathom disabled folks rioting in the streets for being killed in many ways
> the the disabled are, or who have their lives reduced by being
> institutionalized because of the bodies in which they were born.
>
>
>
> The same might be said about the seriously mentally ill. As a mental
> exercise take any oppressed group and fill that space.
>
>
>
> I was following the bead of this comparison in my mind to think about how
> would inclusivity of the disabled in protest be provided in a time like
> now? (Give we are making room for kids to protest?) Or are the disabled
> even left behind while everyone else has the privilege to protest?
>
>
>
> The only thing I feel might be a conclusion is that we fight for human
> rights and for non-violence, but also for inclusivity and our innate right
> to love one another.
>
>
>
> That everyone every single one of us matters. When every single one of us
> matters, there is no need to distinguish favorites, up or down, left or
> right.
>
>
>
> That day is not here yet because only some of us matters, and some of us
> doesn't.
>
>
>
> I'm not big on Biden, but he is one of the first mainstreamers to vocalize
> that we have an open wound that needs dressing.
>
>
>
> Then I thought how Biden has the privilege of saying that outright where
> Obama was not. My memory might be incorrect, however, it was only until
> Fergusen that Obama came out to speak but only in a very circumspect tone,
> if only that he could not be bridled as an angry black man.
>
>
>
> I wondered if anyone might present an imagination of what positive change
> might develop out of all of this, if you are able to shush the cynic-within.
>
>
>
> Or is my cable internet guy right? The protests are just a holiday, a way
> to get out of the house because too many of us have cabin fever.
>
>
>
> Thank you all in advance for your contributions.
>
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
>
>
> Annalisa
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <
>
>
>
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