[Xmca-l] Re: My Hometown Minneapolis

Fri Jun 5 07:44:04 PDT 2020

Martin, thank you.

I like each of these goals, and there's a good chance we even agree, for
most of them, on how to get there.
In some cases, we probably have similar goals but different ideas (such is
the spice of life) for how best to get there (e.g., put more resources into
Gen4 nuclear, while trying to save a few bucks for the next pandemic; e.g.,
NOT using the military on our own civilians!!! except as a non-lethal
deterrent to potentially worse outcomes ---- don't quote me on that one;
I'm up in the air there; e.g., striking a humane immigration balance
between, as Douglas Murray has framed it, the competing virtues of
"justice" vs "mercy" -- in all cases on this excellent list you've
presented, I ask (as you do) the simple yet hard-to-answer question,
"Compared to what?")

Respectfully,
Anthony

On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 10:30 AM Martin Packer <mpacker@cantab.net> wrote:

> Anthony, the comments by Tucker Carlson that you cite make it sound as
> though people simply dislike Trump. That they are offended, perhaps, by the
> color his hair. Seems to me, the efforts to ensure that Trump doesn’t
> continue for a second term are efforts to achieve a larger goal. That goal
> might be…
>
> - that the US support once again the World Health Organization
> - that the US take the lead in responding to environmental damage
> - that immigrants be treated humanely
> - that the Justice Department be independent
> - that US diplomats not be exploited
> - that the military not be deployed against American citizens
> - and the list goes on.
>
> Of course you might, and probably do, disagree with the legitimacy of any
> or all of these goals. But they strike me as concerns which can validly
> motivate questions about the competence of a presidency. At least, no one
> is questioning where Trump was born.
>
> Martin
>
>
> On Jun 5, 2020, at 9:09 AM, Anthony Barra <anthonymbarra@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> You have literally no contacts in your circle who can answer that?  I'm
> happy to help, but first you have to answer my question ; )
>
> (P.S. I think this work of yours is fantastic, Martin:
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKW9zWVhlZg7RxuL4PufCosXdZsfWM-QM__;!!Mih3wA!X_k0qG2Gdaz84SxG-k5loWK6oFCKti6ihDfgtd4xW4HcwdVCxAQ1ANqxvJnmnxe3eLOfJg$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKW9zWVhlZg7RxuL4PufCosXdZsfWM-QM__;!!Mih3wA!Qa9NCdHOLJ6KM92V9Cs_tris3ouJaW3l-da38mar4q0HS5rzh546N8BC-o_zb6Mpue-t9g$>  --
> if I can later, I'll try to cite your slides directly in an attempt to
> answer your question. Believe it or not, I've done just that in private
> conversations. Don't worry, you were not implicated in any way!)
>
> Anthony
>
> On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 10:03 AM Martin Packer <mpacker@cantab.net> wrote:
>
>> Help me understand, Anthony, why someone would *not* want to remove Trump?
>>
>> Martin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 5, 2020, at 8:40 AM, Anthony Barra <anthonymbarra@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I, too, like avoiding politics here, but this will be a social
>> analysis/dialectics question, piggybacking on a fair amount of the rest of
>> this "Minneapolis" thread.  So don't ban me! : )
>>
>>
>> Rhetorical hyperbole aside, is this the biggest Straw Man of all time, or
>> are a percentage of the following sentences true? My guess is: both. (At
>> first I thought that everyone here would reflexively reject and dismiss
>> this Social Analysis out of hand - and understandably too, but now I'm
>> wondering if some parts of it might be acknowledged, unapologetically, as
>> in fact correct.)
>>
>> "This is about Donald Trump. Of course it is. We just couldn't see it.
>> For normal people, Donald Trump is a president: you may like him, you may
>> not like him, but either way there will be another president at some point,
>> and we will move on as we always have.  But for Donald Trump's enemies:
>> there is nothing else. Everything is about Trump; everything. Donald Trump
>> defines their friendships, their careers, their marriages. Donald Trump
>> affects how they raise their children. Trump occupies the very center of
>> their lives. As long as Donald Trump remains in the White House, they feel
>> powerless and diminished and panicked, and they cannot be happy.
>>
>> In everything they do, their overriding goal is to remove Donald Trump
>> from office. And that's exactly what they're trying to do now. That's what
>> these riots are about.
>>
>> The most privileged in our society are using the most desperate in our
>> society to seize power from everyone else. Got that? That's the nub of it:
>> the most privileged are using the most desperate to seize power from the
>> rest of us. They are not seeking racial justice. If they were seeking
>> racial justice, they wouldn't be denouncing their fellow Americans for
>> their race - which they are. It has nothing to do with it. What they are
>> seeking is total control of the country. And it goes without saying that
>> none of this has anything to do with George Floyd. Shame on those who
>> pretended that it did. Those who fell for the lie, and those who knew
>> better but played along because they are cowards."
>>
>> Souce: Tucker Carlson, "Liberal activists now want to 'defund the
>> police'"
>>
>> (P.S. My own personal utopia would be to synthesize the very best ideas
>> of the left with the very best of the right, but alas, that is by
>> definition a dream, by definition "no place.")
>>
>> Thanks in advance for any thoughts (and yes, this thread is
>> America-centric, starting from post #1 about the great city of Minneapolis
>> -- sorry to those understandably not interested).
>>
>> Anthony
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 5:27 AM Anthony Barra <anthonymbarra@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you, I'll take a look. Sounds similar to dialectics, little I know
>>> of both.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, June 4, 2020, Richard Beach <rbeach@umn.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Anthony, the concept of “expansive learning” posits that objects/motive
>>>> in activity are ideally always open to change/transformation—that they are
>>>> never fixed given that as participants encounter new
>>>> contradictions/challenges, they “learn to”/formulate new objects/motives.
>>>> This requires learners to be open to exploring optional actions/tools/norms
>>>> as they redefine/revise their ever expanding objects/motives.
>>>>
>>>> Coping with decades-long racist practices in Minneapolis, requires
>>>> “expansive learning” to continually experiment with new objects/motives
>>>> given that some of the tools/practices attempted in the past haven’t
>>>> necessarily worked, although attempts were made to do so, only to be
>>>> blocked by a timid political leadership
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.startribune.com/in-2008-we-had-a-reform-plan-for-the-mpd-it-got-derailed-by-politics/570998162/__;!!Mih3wA!SLGpQj8PmApHqKlEeH3z-ohB8R76qeqnpglVMrj9N2HOiJRn_QxL9FXpHMmS9eXEdK2Cgg$>
>>>> .
>>>>
>>>> For more on expansive learning theory, see attached reports:
>>>> Engeström,Y., & Sannino, A. (2010). Studies of expansive learning:
>>>> Foundations, findings and future challenges. *Educational Research
>>>> Review, 5*, 1–24.
>>>> Sannino, A., Engeström, Y., & Lemos, M. (2016). Formative interventions
>>>> for expansivelearning and transformative agency. *Journal of the
>>>> Learning Sciences, 25*(4), 599-633.
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>
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