[Xmca-l] Re: Philosophie des Geistes?
Andy Blunden
andyb@marxists.org
Fri Jul 24 02:03:04 PDT 2020
Collingwood is great. Hard to get hold of work I think.
And yes, /Geist /is an activity. Many writers of our day
agree with that.
andy
------------------------------------------------------------
*Andy Blunden*
Hegel for Social Movements <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!Mih3wA!QF2Dcu6tNVtc6QgFIIOvgcPzUedUPmYqhk6DpQSkkz2IHkcFeGKyJETmpyCEKAFo2KY2Qg$ >
Home Page <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!QF2Dcu6tNVtc6QgFIIOvgcPzUedUPmYqhk6DpQSkkz2IHkcFeGKyJETmpyCEKAHghf0mpA$ >
On 24/07/2020 6:28 pm, WEBSTER, DAVID S. wrote:
> Mind, Hegel and Collingwood
>
> The mind seems to be not so much that which thinks as the
> thinking itself; it is not an active thing so much as an
> activity (Religion & Philosophy 1916 p.100) - if you want
> to know the mind of a cobbler, then study the boots he has
> made
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> on behalf of Andy
> Blunden <andyb@marxists.org>
> *Sent:* 24 July 2020 05:04
> *To:* xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: Philosophie des Geistes?
>
> There is nothing "crude" about Hegel's Philosophy of
> Spirit. It has almost innumerable grades of mind between
> the indeterminate "feeling" which might cause a new-born
> to cry without any kind of awareness, up to political
> action to resolve the social problem at the root of the
> "disturbance." All these are states of a whole body and
> its relation to its environment. Hegel does talk about
> "expulsion" where are person takes action - shouting,
> sobbing, .. - to relieve the feeling, a process which can
> be more or less rational. But he does not have a mental
> state over there and a body over there, or one expressing
> itself in the other. Probably my analogy of hand-waving
> was inappropriate. That's obviously not the same as your
> hair standing on end when you get a creepy feeling or the
> stomach ache which tells you it's dinner time.
>
> andy
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> *Andy Blunden*
> Hegel for Social Movements
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!Mih3wA!SuCLv6fToTs8KM3N6g5Oqmfo51K9S2o9La2_xoAra5L1003TxFvIhV_9eW_a_u5bbHvFUA$>
> Home Page
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!SuCLv6fToTs8KM3N6g5Oqmfo51K9S2o9La2_xoAra5L1003TxFvIhV_9eW_a_u6pRGACdQ$>
>
> On 24/07/2020 7:01 am, David Kellogg wrote:
>> Well, it's not me turning it around, of course. The
>> James-Lange theory is what it is: you perceive something,
>> your viscera or vasomotor muscles respond, and the
>> emotion is the feeling of that happening to you. Lange,
>> at any rate, seems to be thinking of the male sexual
>> response.
>>
>> I think that's why Dewey says that Hegel's anticipation
>> of the theory is crude. Vygotsky wouldn't (and doesn't)
>> agree that an emotion is "expressed". An emotion is not a
>> mental state of affairs expressed in physiological
>> changes in the viscera/vasomotor muscles or contrariwise
>> a change in the visceral/vascular state of
>> affairs expressed in a mental one. (For that very reason,
>> I think that Vygotsky wouldn't agree with Andy's waving
>> analogy....)
>>
>> Spinoza uses the term "affect" or "affection" instead. It
>> means more or less what it sounds like: the way in which
>> a body is affected by the environment and vice versa.
>> This can either increase or decrease the potential for a
>> body for activity. The problem is that in order to make
>> this a theory of specifically human emotions, this
>> activity has to include the "activity" of making
>> meanings, and Spinoza can't seem to address THAT issue
>> without slipping into psycho-physical parallelism.
>> (Halliday can, though....)
>> :
>> David Kellogg
>> Sangmyung University
>>
>> New Article: Ruqaiya Hasan, in memoriam: A manual and a
>> manifesto.
>> Outlines, Spring 2020
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238__;!!Mih3wA!QF2Dcu6tNVtc6QgFIIOvgcPzUedUPmYqhk6DpQSkkz2IHkcFeGKyJETmpyCEKAFbWCftnA$
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238__;!!Mih3wA!QLEoxL29F3RatvgkaIG1vsUhEgaWkdE-vCDs0vMv8gD5JVN33eCV8_ZTlPUZ5zPbYeeQHQ$>
>> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: /L.S. Vygotsky's
>> Pedological Works/ /Volume One: Foundations of Pedology/"
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!QF2Dcu6tNVtc6QgFIIOvgcPzUedUPmYqhk6DpQSkkz2IHkcFeGKyJETmpyCEKAFQWbqq9A$
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!QLEoxL29F3RatvgkaIG1vsUhEgaWkdE-vCDs0vMv8gD5JVN33eCV8_ZTlPUZ5zOCrzEKFA$>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 8:19 PM Andy Blunden
>> <andyb@marxists.org <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>> wrote:
>>
>> No, don't turn it around. The point is that organs
>> are subordinate parts of the whole organism. The
>> emotion /is/ the state of a whole organism, in
>> particular, a mental state. Like a hand expresses a
>> feeling when we wave to someone.
>>
>> andy
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> *Andy Blunden*
>> Hegel for Social Movements
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!Mih3wA!W1x0zBm8fkXksY2M64OKgpNL_TPx1e8eTQyWJEtxUBueZNW1leqHSuR9yBEWIW_pdhtxwg$>
>> Home Page
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!W1x0zBm8fkXksY2M64OKgpNL_TPx1e8eTQyWJEtxUBueZNW1leqHSuR9yBEWIW9bL-5LGQ$>
>>
>> On 23/07/2020 8:55 pm, David Kellogg wrote:
>>> Thanks, Andy--this is it!
>>>
>>> "In physiology the viscera and the organs are
>>> treated merely as parts subservient to the animal
>>> organism; but they form at the same time a physical
>>> system for the expression of mental states, and in
>>> this way they get quite another interpretation."
>>>
>>> The only problem is the word "expression". In the
>>> James-Lange theory, the mental states are the
>>> expression of the viscera and the organs. But
>>> perhaps that's what Hegel really means here: the
>>> viscera and organs are a system that expresses a
>>> state which we interpret as an emotion.
>>>
>>> (I remember a dear friend of mine getting a messy
>>> divorce and remarking, when I worried that he was
>>> losing a lot of weight, that it wasn't his heart
>>> that was broken but his stomach....)
>>>
>>>
>>> David Kellogg
>>> Sangmyung University
>>>
>>> New Article: Ruqaiya Hasan, in memoriam: A manual
>>> and a manifesto.
>>> Outlines, Spring 2020
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238__;!!Mih3wA!QF2Dcu6tNVtc6QgFIIOvgcPzUedUPmYqhk6DpQSkkz2IHkcFeGKyJETmpyCEKAFbWCftnA$
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238__;!!Mih3wA!TttD-npmriYNiq_GkGHggjRPJwdnhAwRmpOFFclfTRlXC2fTkBviD-tAkaQPh-R8158beQ$>
>>> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: /L.S.
>>> Vygotsky's Pedological Works/ /Volume One:
>>> Foundations of Pedology/"
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!QF2Dcu6tNVtc6QgFIIOvgcPzUedUPmYqhk6DpQSkkz2IHkcFeGKyJETmpyCEKAFQWbqq9A$
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!TttD-npmriYNiq_GkGHggjRPJwdnhAwRmpOFFclfTRlXC2fTkBviD-tAkaQPh-Q7yWc-iw$>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 5:19 PM Andy Blunden
>>> <andyb@marxists.org <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>> If you're interested in s. 401, then you'll
>>> probably be interested in 402 as well.
>>>
>>> One other possibility: The "official" way of
>>> citing Hegel nowadays is to cite the page no. in
>>> the authoritative version of /Hegel Werke/. The
>>> German word for "page" is /Seite/, so you would
>>> say "S. 401" of the /Enc/, This turns out also
>>> to be an interesting passage of the Subjective
>>> Spirit, on Self-consciousness, concerned with
>>> the infamous Master-Slave dialectic, though in a
>>> much reduced form, not like in the
>>> /Phenomenology of Spirit/.
>>>
>>> See p. 401 in the other attachment, ENZYKl3.PDF,
>>> in German. English translation is here:
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hegel/works/sp/suconsci.htm*SU428__;Iw!!Mih3wA!QF2Dcu6tNVtc6QgFIIOvgcPzUedUPmYqhk6DpQSkkz2IHkcFeGKyJETmpyCEKAEuML0Hwg$
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hegel/works/sp/suconsci.htm*SU428__;Iw!!Mih3wA!V5yS3WiqsE4SSOtcY1SJElXpnzzhFH035NnO1lZ49z3QJYH4kQO68Wccu2Y86C642xXiTQ$>
>>>
>>> Andy
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> *Andy Blunden*
>>> Hegel for Social Movements
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!Mih3wA!V5yS3WiqsE4SSOtcY1SJElXpnzzhFH035NnO1lZ49z3QJYH4kQO68Wccu2Y86C4MltIy3g$>
>>> Home Page
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!V5yS3WiqsE4SSOtcY1SJElXpnzzhFH035NnO1lZ49z3QJYH4kQO68Wccu2Y86C7AtYM8hA$>
>>>
>>> On 23/07/2020 5:47 pm, Andy Blunden wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The Philosophy of Spirit is the Third Part of
>>>> the Encyclopaedia, itself composed of three parts:
>>>>
>>>> * Subjective Spirit, which is commonly taken
>>>> as Psychology
>>>> * Objective Spirit, which is commonly taken
>>>> as Social Theory, and
>>>> * Absolute Spirit, which covers Art,
>>>> religion, Science and Philosophy.
>>>>
>>>> The Encyclopaedia has numbered paragraphs.
>>>> These do vary between 2 or editions, but these
>>>> will be limited probably by those translated
>>>> into English,
>>>>
>>>> I would start with the 1930 version"
>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hegel/works/sp/susoul.htm*SU401__;Iw!!Mih3wA!QF2Dcu6tNVtc6QgFIIOvgcPzUedUPmYqhk6DpQSkkz2IHkcFeGKyJETmpyCEKAF8kawdjw$
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hegel/works/sp/susoul.htm*SU401__;Iw!!Mih3wA!UcUFXSCRfRh-5aW0-7m25WJ_9mWTvjd1a6nOCEuF7RAbpt35sEPbx38XfvY3Rj0va8zujw$>
>>>> - a very early stage in the development of
>>>> mental life, or.
>>>>
>>>> The 1817 version has
>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hegel/works/sp/sspirit.htm*SS399__;Iw!!Mih3wA!QF2Dcu6tNVtc6QgFIIOvgcPzUedUPmYqhk6DpQSkkz2IHkcFeGKyJETmpyCEKAFl5e1wRA$
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hegel/works/sp/sspirit.htm*SS399__;Iw!!Mih3wA!UcUFXSCRfRh-5aW0-7m25WJ_9mWTvjd1a6nOCEuF7RAbpt35sEPbx38XfvY3Rj24gIDBAA$>
>>>> - this version puts s. 401 at the beginning of
>>>> a version of Objective Spirit.
>>>>
>>>> The 1830 one, above, has a long Note to it
>>>> written by his students on the basis of Hegel's
>>>> lectures which is a long discourse on the
>>>> development of thinking from sensation. I am
>>>> thinking this is what you mean. I will
>>>> photocopy it and send it on.
>>>>
>>>> Andy
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> *Andy Blunden*
>>>> Hegel for Social Movements
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!Mih3wA!UcUFXSCRfRh-5aW0-7m25WJ_9mWTvjd1a6nOCEuF7RAbpt35sEPbx38XfvY3Rj2Rs_DLCQ$>
>>>> Home Page
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!UcUFXSCRfRh-5aW0-7m25WJ_9mWTvjd1a6nOCEuF7RAbpt35sEPbx38XfvY3Rj0L0JHIrA$>
>>>>
>>>> On 23/07/2020 5:09 pm, David Kellogg wrote:
>>>>> We are trying to turn Vygotsky's "Teaching on
>>>>> Emotion" into one of those cartoon books that
>>>>> are so popular here in Korea (e.g. the "Why?"
>>>>> series). It's not Vygotsky for dummies, but it
>>>>> will have a lot of pictures with questions and
>>>>> answers alongside Vygotsky's rather difficult
>>>>> text.
>>>>>
>>>>> We've got to figure out the text first. For
>>>>> example, what does John Dewey mean when he says:
>>>>>
>>>>> "On the historical side, it may be worth
>>>>> noting that a crude anticipation of James'
>>>>> theory is found in Hegel's Philosophie des
>>>>> Geistes, 401."?
>>>>>
>>>>> Did Hegel ever write a Philosophie des
>>>>> Geistes? If so, does the number refer to a
>>>>> page number or a section or what?
>>>>>
>>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brocku.ca/MeadProject/Dewey/Dewey_1895.html__;!!Mih3wA!QF2Dcu6tNVtc6QgFIIOvgcPzUedUPmYqhk6DpQSkkz2IHkcFeGKyJETmpyCEKAHI7manrw$
>>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brocku.ca/MeadProject/Dewey/Dewey_1895.html__;!!Mih3wA!RLGVUv48gomTR2KJ99jcR-ruYcur4TKLR3u-7WeR_HhShIfYJpHP0U7EwICkluTj4uvZOA$>
>>>>>
>>>>> David Kellogg
>>>>> Sangmyung University
>>>>>
>>>>> New Article: Ruqaiya Hasan, in memoriam: A
>>>>> manual and a manifesto.
>>>>> Outlines, Spring 2020
>>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238__;!!Mih3wA!QF2Dcu6tNVtc6QgFIIOvgcPzUedUPmYqhk6DpQSkkz2IHkcFeGKyJETmpyCEKAFbWCftnA$
>>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238__;!!Mih3wA!RLGVUv48gomTR2KJ99jcR-ruYcur4TKLR3u-7WeR_HhShIfYJpHP0U7EwICkluSzhBnr9w$>
>>>>> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: /L.S.
>>>>> Vygotsky's Pedological Works/ /Volume One:
>>>>> Foundations of Pedology/"
>>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!QF2Dcu6tNVtc6QgFIIOvgcPzUedUPmYqhk6DpQSkkz2IHkcFeGKyJETmpyCEKAFQWbqq9A$
>>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!RLGVUv48gomTR2KJ99jcR-ruYcur4TKLR3u-7WeR_HhShIfYJpHP0U7EwICkluRBlvE9VA$>
>>>
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