From mcole@ucsd.edu Wed Apr 1 10:06:52 2020 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2020 10:06:52 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: Language & Sociocultural Theory 6.2 table of contents In-Reply-To: References: <5e846ed6.1c69fb81.389c9.b449SMTPIN_ADDED_BROKEN@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Forwarded by request. mike Language & Sociocultural Theory 6.2 (2019) View this email in your browser Twitter Facebook Pinterest Equinox Publishing *Language and Sociocultural Theory* *Issue 6.2 (2019) * *Guest Editor: Pr?spero N. Garc?a* *Table of contents* *Articles* Cognitive Linguistics, Sociocultural Theory and Content and Language Integrated Learning: Researching Development of Polysemous L2 Lexis *Kent Hill* Concept-based pragmatics instruction: Teaching German address pronouns to New Zealand tertiary students *Marie-Christin Kuepper , Anne Feryok* Dynamic Assessment of IELTS Speaking: A Learning-Oriented Approach to Test Preparation *Valeriya Minakova* SCT and Translanguaging-to-learn: Proposed Conceptual Integration *Heather Jane Smith , Leena Helavaara Robertson* *Editor* James P. Lantolf, The Pennsylvania State University, United States *Associate Editor* Matthew E. Poehner, The Pennsylvania State University, United States *Book Review Editor* Alessandro Rosborough, Brigham Young University, United States *Language and Sociocultural Theory* http://equinoxpub.com/LST ISSN 2051-9699 (print) ISSN 2051-9702 (online) *Copyright ? 2020 Equinox Publishing Ltd., All rights reserved.* You are receiving this email because you registered on the Equinox publishing website or are an contributor to our journals and books. *Our mailing address is:* Equinox Publishing Ltd. Office 415, The Workstation 15 Paternoster Row Sheffield, England S1 2BX United Kingdom Add us to your address book unsubscribe from this list update subscription preferences -- Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a landslide. Roy D'Andrade --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200401/12f9d396/attachment.html From dkellogg60@gmail.com Wed Apr 1 19:33:50 2020 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 11:33:50 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fwd: Language & Sociocultural Theory 6.2 table of contents In-Reply-To: References: <5e846ed6.1c69fb81.389c9.b449SMTPIN_ADDED_BROKEN@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Caveat Scriptor! I have found the editorial board of this journal (viz. Lantolf and Poehner) unwilling to publish anything critical of their own work The reviewers appear to have a violent immune reaction to anything but a narrow social-behaviorist interpretation of Vygotsky's work. The turn-around time is sempiternal and I have had to throw away good work as a result. David Kellogg Sangmyung University Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of *Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational action research * in *Mind Culture and Activity* *https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 * Some free e-prints available at: https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 2:10 AM mike cole wrote: > > Forwarded by request. > mike > > > Language & Sociocultural Theory 6.2 (2019) > View this email in your browser > > > > Twitter > > > > Facebook > > > > Pinterest > > > Equinox > Publishing > > > > *Language and Sociocultural Theory* > > *Issue 6.2 (2019) * > > *Guest Editor: Pr?spero N. Garc?a* > > *Table of contents* > > *Articles* > Cognitive Linguistics, Sociocultural Theory and Content and Language > Integrated Learning: Researching Development of Polysemous L2 Lexis > > *Kent Hill* > > Concept-based pragmatics instruction: Teaching German address pronouns to > New Zealand tertiary students > > *Marie-Christin Kuepper , Anne Feryok* > > Dynamic Assessment of IELTS Speaking: A Learning-Oriented Approach to Test > Preparation > > *Valeriya Minakova* > > SCT and Translanguaging-to-learn: Proposed Conceptual Integration > > *Heather Jane Smith , Leena Helavaara Robertson* > *Editor* > James P. Lantolf, The Pennsylvania State University, United States > > *Associate Editor* > Matthew E. Poehner, The Pennsylvania State University, United States > > *Book Review Editor* > Alessandro Rosborough, Brigham Young University, United States > > *Language and Sociocultural Theory* > http://equinoxpub.com/LST > > > ISSN 2051-9699 (print) > ISSN 2051-9702 (online) > > > *Copyright ? 2020 Equinox Publishing Ltd., All rights reserved.* > You are receiving this email because you registered on the Equinox > publishing website or are an contributor to our journals and books. > > *Our mailing address is:* > Equinox Publishing Ltd. > Office 415, The Workstation > 15 Paternoster Row > Sheffield, England S1 2BX > United Kingdom > > Add us to your address book > > > > unsubscribe from this list > > update subscription preferences > > > > > > > > -- > Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a > landslide. Roy D'Andrade > --------------------------------------------------- > For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other > members of LCHC, visit > lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the > research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200402/28e3ac67/attachment.html From helenaworthen@gmail.com Tue Apr 7 11:56:07 2020 From: helenaworthen@gmail.com (Helena Worthen) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2020 11:56:07 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] General check-in? In-Reply-To: References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> Message-ID: <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> Hello, XMCA-ers - I don?t remember ever having read that this list was going to shut down or even be allowed to fade away. So now I?m writing, as if in the dark, to the whole list. We?ve now got a major ? maybe ?the? major crisis of the anthropocene on our hands and the distant but connected network represented by the conversations on this list seem to me to be a treasure more precious than gold - and I?m not speaking metaphorically. I am concerned about some of the people who have been pillars and resources on his list, people whom I have reached out to over the years and heard back from with information and perspectives that I would never have been able to access on my own. Where are you now? What are you doing? Are you safe and healthy? Do you have information about friends who are unable to read or respond to this request? I hope to hear some responses to this message. Take care of yourselves, please ? Helena Helena Worthen hworthen@illinois.edu 21 San Mateo Road, Berkeley, CA 94707 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200407/38bf06cb/attachment.html From goncu@uic.edu Tue Apr 7 12:20:05 2020 From: goncu@uic.edu (Goncu, Artin) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2020 19:20:05 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Helena, Greetings from Chicago. Warm regards, Artin Goncu, Ph.D Professor, Emeritus University of Illinois at Chicago www.artingoncu.com/ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Helena Worthen Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2020 1:56 PM To: Helena Worthen ; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] General check-in? Hello, XMCA-ers - I don?t remember ever having read that this list was going to shut down or even be allowed to fade away. So now I?m writing, as if in the dark, to the whole list. We?ve now got a major ? maybe ?the? major crisis of the anthropocene on our hands and the distant but connected network represented by the conversations on this list seem to me to be a treasure more precious than gold - and I?m not speaking metaphorically. I am concerned about some of the people who have been pillars and resources on his list, people whom I have reached out to over the years and heard back from with information and perspectives that I would never have been able to access on my own. Where are you now? What are you doing? Are you safe and healthy? Do you have information about friends who are unable to read or respond to this request? I hope to hear some responses to this message. Take care of yourselves, please ? Helena Helena Worthen hworthen@illinois.edu 21 San Mateo Road, Berkeley, CA 94707 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200407/d744cd2d/attachment.html From mpacker@cantab.net Tue Apr 7 12:28:10 2020 From: mpacker@cantab.net (Martin Packer) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2020 14:28:10 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> Message-ID: <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> Hi Helena, I share your concerns. And, despite its challenges, this situation seems a great opportunity to apply our distributed expertise(s). I tried to get some discussion going in a group concerned with the Anthropocene, but people seemed disinclined. Martin Here?s the first message that I sent? The current situation is producing important evidence about the probable consequences of the strategies proposed to mitigate climate change. Satellites are showing significant reductions in pollution: https://www.space.com/italy-coronavirus-outbreak-response-reduces-emissions-satellite-images.html Experts are suggesting that as a result the coronavirus may save more lives than it takes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2020/03/11/coronavirus-lockdown-may-save-more-lives-from-pollution-and-climate-than-from-virus/#4a39bb3c5764 So when skeptics ask ?How can you know that reducing air travel will help with climate change?? there is now clear evidence with which to answer them. Also in China: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/04/811019032/why-chinas-air-has-been-cleaner-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak At the same time, I am starting to wonder whether the current health guidelines regarding coronvirus are culturally biased. Can they work in ?collectivist? cultures (to use the shorthand)? The CDC guidelines, for example, include the recommendations to ?Stay home when you are sick,? but also that other members of the household should ?Avoid close contact with people who are sick? and should ?Choose a room in your home that can be used to separate sick household members from those who are healthy. Identify a separate bathroom for the sick person to use, if possible.? This advice is simply not practicable for many households in Colombia. There are not enough rooms; there is no second bathroom. In addition, many infants and young children here are cared for by grandparents, or even great-grandparents (many women here have a baby when young, so an infant may have a grandmother who is in her late 30s and a great-grandmother in her late 50s). The evidence shows that children don?t become very ill, but they do get infected and they can infect other people, among whom elderly caregivers will be the most at risk. So I don?t think social distance and auto-quarantine will work in Colombia. Consider what the Chinese did: they went door-to-door to identify infected family members and removed them to massive collective quarantine setttings. People in the West considered this to be draconian, even cruel. But it made sense: much more cross-infection occurred in Chinese homes than in places like restaurants. Unless the authorities can come up with strategies that are more appropriate to local circumstances and practices, there is likely to be a rapid and elevated peak of infections in Latin American countries. And I see there is a related point here, on ageism: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200313155256.htm > On Apr 7, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Helena Worthen wrote: > > Hello, XMCA-ers - > > I don?t remember ever having read that this list was going to shut down or even be allowed to fade away. So now I?m writing, as if in the dark, to the whole list. We?ve now got a major ? maybe ?the? major crisis of the anthropocene on our hands and the distant but connected network represented by the conversations on this list seem to me to be a treasure more precious than gold - and I?m not speaking metaphorically. > > I am concerned about some of the people who have been pillars and resources on his list, people whom I have reached out to over the years and heard back from with information and perspectives that I would never have been able to access on my own. Where are you now? What are you doing? Are you safe and healthy? Do you have information about friends who are unable to read or respond to this request? > > I hope to hear some responses to this message. > > Take care of yourselves, please ? > > Helena > > > Helena Worthen > hworthen@illinois.edu > 21 San Mateo Road, Berkeley, CA 94707 > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200407/8a544a09/attachment.html From a.j.gil@ils.uio.no Tue Apr 7 13:36:08 2020 From: a.j.gil@ils.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2020 20:36:08 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> Message-ID: <059AB9A7-B434-4D24-B6C7-698BE7A1AB42@uio.no> Dear Helena, This list is not shutting down any time soon, and it is for its members to populate it. There are a number of parallel channels (e.g., associated to the re-generating chat project of which you are part, and the re-making of the Cultural Praxis website) that certainly have moved attention away for some of us; but technically and institutionally xmca will continue along MCA. Here in Norway things are calming down after the big restrictions enacted at the beginning of March. A rich state with a strong public health system? we are privileged among the privileged, and can?t complain. Our luxury problems here involve dealing with the domestic annoyances and challenges of forced homeschooling while re-inventing ourselves as distance educators, building community while respecting restrictions, etc? Fortunately, those with whom I have closer contact in this and other networks are healthy and safe so far. Thanks for caring and looking forward to hear from others, Alfredo From: on behalf of "Goncu, Artin" Reply to: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Date: Tuesday, 7 April 2020 at 21:28 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Hi Helena, Greetings from Chicago. Warm regards, Artin Goncu, Ph.D Professor, Emeritus University of Illinois at Chicago www.artingoncu.com/ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Helena Worthen Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2020 1:56 PM To: Helena Worthen ; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] General check-in? Hello, XMCA-ers - I don?t remember ever having read that this list was going to shut down or even be allowed to fade away. So now I?m writing, as if in the dark, to the whole list. We?ve now got a major ? maybe ?the? major crisis of the anthropocene on our hands and the distant but connected network represented by the conversations on this list seem to me to be a treasure more precious than gold - and I?m not speaking metaphorically. I am concerned about some of the people who have been pillars and resources on his list, people whom I have reached out to over the years and heard back from with information and perspectives that I would never have been able to access on my own. Where are you now? What are you doing? Are you safe and healthy? Do you have information about friends who are unable to read or respond to this request? I hope to hear some responses to this message. Take care of yourselves, please ? Helena Helena Worthen hworthen@illinois.edu 21 San Mateo Road, Berkeley, CA 94707 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200407/44497aff/attachment.html From dkellogg60@gmail.com Tue Apr 7 14:02:46 2020 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 06:02:46 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> Message-ID: Helena-- Situation in China, courtesy my sister-in-law: life in Beijing is pretty much back to normal at least on the face of it. People are going out to their work units (but there is more work from home than before the crisis). Classes still largely taught from ZOOM. My nephew is in Shanghai, where the situation is somewhat tighter (proximity to Wuhan). Wuhan opened up for real yesterday--people can leave (I lived there for two years in the mid-eighties, but I can barely recognize what I see on the news now....) I have students in Chengdu (who attend my class via ZOOM). People are mostly shopping on line with delivery to the gate of the housing unit rather than to their flat (as we do here in Korea). Air quality better than it's been in decades. Situation here in South Korea: We just extended our lockdown for another two weeks. This is in response to a few days of new infections over a hundred, but the infections are mostly (80%) Koreans from the US and Europe who want to live in a place where the medical system has not broken down or is not in the process of breaking down. There are still some "hotspots" of community transmission, but these are almost all connected with churches or PC cafes. Schools reopen on the 16th, but only online. We have elections in a week, and there is a lot of campaigning going on, including the usual street based campaigning (the right wing opposition campaigns around the curious notion that the government has done absolutely nothing, and the government ignores everybody who is not an actual virus). People shop in stores, and there is no panic buying or disruption of supply chains. The main changes in economic life seem to have to do with transport, and it seems like this too will be permanent (electric scooters are everywhere now). Bowing instead of shaking hands is really not a bad idea, and coffee-shops always were over-rated and over-priced.... But what about you, Helena? (One of the things I have learned on this list is that you get more or less what you give--people tend to use what you write as a model for writing back!) Are you still in Vietnam? Your address says Berkeley and your email says Illinois--those are three very different venues for the virus and the economy. Can you give us a brief account of the situation in each? Stay safe, wherever you are! David Kellogg Sangmyung University Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of *Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational action research * in *Mind Culture and Activity* *https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 * Some free e-prints available at: https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 4:30 AM Martin Packer wrote: > Hi Helena, > > I share your concerns. And, despite its challenges, this situation seems a > great opportunity to apply our distributed expertise(s). I tried to get > some discussion going in a group concerned with the Anthropocene, but > people seemed disinclined. > > Martin > > Here?s the first message that I sent? > > The current situation is producing important evidence about the probable > consequences of the strategies proposed to mitigate climate change. > Satellites are showing significant reductions in pollution: > > https://www.space.com/italy-coronavirus-outbreak-response-reduces-emissions-satellite-images.html > Experts are suggesting that as a result the coronavirus may save more > lives than it takes: > > https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2020/03/11/coronavirus-lockdown-may-save-more-lives-from-pollution-and-climate-than-from-virus/#4a39bb3c5764 > So when skeptics ask ?How can you know that reducing air travel will help > with climate change?? there is now clear evidence with which to answer them. > > Also in China: > > https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/04/811019032/why-chinas-air-has-been-cleaner-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak > > At the same time, I am starting to wonder whether the current health > guidelines regarding coronvirus are culturally biased. Can they work in > ?collectivist? cultures (to use the shorthand)? The CDC guidelines, for > example, include the recommendations to ?Stay home when you are sick,? but > also that other members of the household should ?Avoid close contact with > people who are sick? and should ?Choose a room in your home that can be > used to separate sick household members from those who are healthy. > Identify a separate bathroom for the sick person to use, if possible.? > This advice is simply not practicable for many households in Colombia. > There are not enough rooms; there is no second bathroom. In addition, many > infants and young children here are cared for by grandparents, or even > great-grandparents (many women here have a baby when young, so an infant > may have a grandmother who is in her late 30s and a great-grandmother in > her late 50s). The evidence shows that children don?t become very ill, but > they do get infected and they can infect other people, among whom elderly > caregivers will be the most at risk. > So I don?t think social distance and auto-quarantine will work in > Colombia. Consider what the Chinese did: they went door-to-door to identify > infected family members and removed them to massive collective quarantine > setttings. People in the West considered this to be draconian, even cruel. > But it made sense: much more cross-infection occurred in Chinese homes than > in places like restaurants. > Unless the authorities can come up with strategies that are more > appropriate to local circumstances and practices, there is likely to be a > rapid and elevated peak of infections in Latin American countries. > > And I see there is a related point here, on ageism: > https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200313155256.htm > > > > > > > On Apr 7, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Helena Worthen > wrote: > > Hello, XMCA-ers - > > I don?t remember ever having read that this list was going to shut down or > even be allowed to fade away. So now I?m writing, as if in the dark, to the > whole list. We?ve now got a major ? maybe ?the? major crisis of the > anthropocene on our hands and the distant but connected network represented > by the conversations on this list seem to me to be a treasure more precious > than gold - and I?m not speaking metaphorically. > > I am concerned about some of the people who have been pillars and > resources on his list, people whom I have reached out to over the years and > heard back from with information and perspectives that I would never have > been able to access on my own. Where are you now? What are you doing? Are > you safe and healthy? Do you have information about friends who are unable > to read or respond to this request? > > I hope to hear some responses to this message. > > Take care of yourselves, please ? > > Helena > > > Helena Worthen > hworthen@illinois.edu > 21 San Mateo Road, Berkeley, CA 94707 > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200408/5f8ab4c2/attachment.html From helenaworthen@gmail.com Tue Apr 7 15:07:20 2020 From: helenaworthen@gmail.com (Helena Worthen) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2020 15:07:20 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> Message-ID: Hi, David ? on this list I use my academic U of Illinois email, which still works, but we don?t live there ? we left Illinois in 2010. Artin Goncu just responded in this list ? maybe he can tell us what he sees in Illinois. Artin, you?re in Chicago, aren?t you? We left Viet Nam about a year ago. The labor law there was changing (pulling more power into the center, but also strenthening local representation) and our department was changing to become more of a HR and Business Administration department. I don?t know if Uyen or Dinh ever joined this list; they participated in the CHAT Re-Gen discussions, Uyen (Sally) as a student in HoChiMinh City and Dinh from his afterschool program (based on Vygotskian concepts) in Phan Rang. They might speak up if they can ?I?ll nudge them by copying them. Joe and I are in a bubble in Berkeley, CA in an old residential neighborhood with lots of walking paths and good fruit and vegetable stores. We just did a 3rd draft of our book on contingency in higher ed. We?ve been touched by the wildfires (one county to the north) that covered us with stinky smoke for a couple of weeks last fall, and by the various droughts that resulted in water rationing, etc. but these were all geographically local and we could walk or drive away from them and pretend it didn?t really happen. As compared to this. I swing back and forth between feeling joyful to see deer in the street and hear birds singing and other signs of less traffic and pollution ? and on the other hand, becoming aware of two kinds of grief, one because of individuals who have died or who are vulnerable and probably will die, the second because of the challenge of imagining what kind of world the next generation will live in, and what will be lost to them because we were never able to communicate it well enough. I find myself imagining the emotions of Jewish families in Europe as the menace of facism became clearer, and those of the indigenous people of California ? the Miwok, for example, and the Chochenyo, who lived right here where I am now ? and saw their languages disappearing as their population was killed and dispersed. This second kind of grief seems to be something people can talk about - it?s collective, cultural. Not unrelated to this list! Finally, David, since you encouraged me to write: yesterday our son-in-law went grocery shopping for us at an enormous food emporium and brought home three large cucmbers, four ripe tomatoes of middle size, and a plastic bag of hearts of romaine. How much did it cost? $18.00. With best wishes to all ? Helena Worthen helenaworthen@gmail.com hworthen@illinois.edu > On Apr 7, 2020, at 2:02 PM, David Kellogg wrote: > > Helena-- > > Situation in China, courtesy my sister-in-law: life in Beijing is pretty much back to normal at least on the face of it. People are going out to their work units (but there is more work from home than before the crisis). Classes still largely taught from ZOOM. My nephew is in Shanghai, where the situation is somewhat tighter (proximity to Wuhan). Wuhan opened up for real yesterday--people can leave (I lived there for two years in the mid-eighties, but I can barely recognize what I see on the news now....) I have students in Chengdu (who attend my class via ZOOM). People are mostly shopping on line with delivery to the gate of the housing unit rather than to their flat (as we do here in Korea). Air quality better than it's been in decades. > > Situation here in South Korea: We just extended our lockdown for another two weeks. This is in response to a few days of new infections over a hundred, but the infections are mostly (80%) Koreans from the US and Europe who want to live in a place where the medical system has not broken down or is not in the process of breaking down. There are still some "hotspots" of community transmission, but these are almost all connected with churches or PC cafes. Schools reopen on the 16th, but only online. We have elections in a week, and there is a lot of campaigning going on, including the usual street based campaigning (the right wing opposition campaigns around the curious notion that the government has done absolutely nothing, and the government ignores everybody who is not an actual virus). People shop in stores, and there is no panic buying or disruption of supply chains. The main changes in economic life seem to have to do with transport, and it seems like this too will be permanent (electric scooters are everywhere now). Bowing instead of shaking hands is really not a bad idea, and coffee-shops always were over-rated and over-priced.... > > But what about you, Helena? (One of the things I have learned on this list is that you get more or less what you give--people tend to use what you write as a model for writing back!) Are you still in Vietnam? Your address says Berkeley and your email says Illinois--those are three very different venues for the virus and the economy. Can you give us a brief account of the situation in each? > > Stay safe, wherever you are! > > David Kellogg > Sangmyung University > > Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational action research > in Mind Culture and Activity > > https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 > > Some free e-prints available at: > > https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 > > New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" > > https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 > > > On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 4:30 AM Martin Packer > wrote: > Hi Helena, > > I share your concerns. And, despite its challenges, this situation seems a great opportunity to apply our distributed expertise(s). I tried to get some discussion going in a group concerned with the Anthropocene, but people seemed disinclined. > > Martin > > Here?s the first message that I sent? > > The current situation is producing important evidence about the probable consequences of the strategies proposed to mitigate climate change. Satellites are showing significant reductions in pollution: > https://www.space.com/italy-coronavirus-outbreak-response-reduces-emissions-satellite-images.html > Experts are suggesting that as a result the coronavirus may save more lives than it takes: > https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2020/03/11/coronavirus-lockdown-may-save-more-lives-from-pollution-and-climate-than-from-virus/#4a39bb3c5764 > So when skeptics ask ?How can you know that reducing air travel will help with climate change?? there is now clear evidence with which to answer them. > > Also in China: > https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/04/811019032/why-chinas-air-has-been-cleaner-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak > > At the same time, I am starting to wonder whether the current health guidelines regarding coronvirus are culturally biased. Can they work in ?collectivist? cultures (to use the shorthand)? The CDC guidelines, for example, include the recommendations to ?Stay home when you are sick,? but also that other members of the household should ?Avoid close contact with people who are sick? and should ?Choose a room in your home that can be used to separate sick household members from those who are healthy. Identify a separate bathroom for the sick person to use, if possible.? > This advice is simply not practicable for many households in Colombia. There are not enough rooms; there is no second bathroom. In addition, many infants and young children here are cared for by grandparents, or even great-grandparents (many women here have a baby when young, so an infant may have a grandmother who is in her late 30s and a great-grandmother in her late 50s). The evidence shows that children don?t become very ill, but they do get infected and they can infect other people, among whom elderly caregivers will be the most at risk. > So I don?t think social distance and auto-quarantine will work in Colombia. Consider what the Chinese did: they went door-to-door to identify infected family members and removed them to massive collective quarantine setttings. People in the West considered this to be draconian, even cruel. But it made sense: much more cross-infection occurred in Chinese homes than in places like restaurants. > Unless the authorities can come up with strategies that are more appropriate to local circumstances and practices, there is likely to be a rapid and elevated peak of infections in Latin American countries. > > And I see there is a related point here, on ageism: > https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200313155256.htm > > > > > > >> On Apr 7, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Helena Worthen > wrote: >> >> Hello, XMCA-ers - >> >> I don?t remember ever having read that this list was going to shut down or even be allowed to fade away. So now I?m writing, as if in the dark, to the whole list. We?ve now got a major ? maybe ?the? major crisis of the anthropocene on our hands and the distant but connected network represented by the conversations on this list seem to me to be a treasure more precious than gold - and I?m not speaking metaphorically. >> >> I am concerned about some of the people who have been pillars and resources on his list, people whom I have reached out to over the years and heard back from with information and perspectives that I would never have been able to access on my own. Where are you now? What are you doing? Are you safe and healthy? Do you have information about friends who are unable to read or respond to this request? >> >> I hope to hear some responses to this message. >> >> Take care of yourselves, please ? >> >> Helena >> >> >> Helena Worthen >> hworthen@illinois.edu >> 21 San Mateo Road, Berkeley, CA 94707 >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200407/89e06f40/attachment.html From john.crippsclark@deakin.edu.au Tue Apr 7 15:34:28 2020 From: john.crippsclark@deakin.edu.au (John Cripps Clark) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2020 22:34:28 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> Message-ID: <7F0038F1-BB8F-4588-ACAC-931CD8F1981B@deakin.edu.au> Dear Helena and David Here in Australia we have (after a shaky start with returning travellers not taking self-isolation seriously and not quarantining cruise ship passengers) we seem to be following South Korea in containing the virus. The outcry over cruise ships has been revealing. There is a police investigation into one of them (it did lead to over 600 new cases and a few deaths). The hysteria recalls Australia?s experience in the nineteenth century of epidemics and isolating ourselves from plague ships. As always it is the poor and disadvantaged that are suffering. We have tried to isolate the most vulnerable such as remote aboriginal communities and it remains to see whether we will provide the resources necessary for these communities. Past experience is not encouraging since these communities would not be in the present state if we were serious about combatting disadvantage and poverty. On a more parochial level, with extended shutdown and the universities under financial stress (partly this is our own fault by becoming dependent on overseas student fees to supplement the steady erosion of government funding) we also need to support families with children who are cooped up together trying to juggle work, with childcare, with online education over the next two to ten months. I think there are three ways in which we as, a relatively privileged, community of scholars can contribute: 1. Supporting our colleagues ? we have unprecedently powerful communication technologies at our disposal ? use them for good rather than evil. This is especially important in Africa and South America where the tidal wave (and I use this term advisedly recalling the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami) is about to hit. 2. Considering the influence of culture (it is in our title) on the worldwide response to Covid-19. David has already flagged the work unit as a unit of social organisation in China. 3. We need to prepare for the post-Covid-19 bounceback once we have a vaccine. The existential crisis (and again I use the word with trepidation after the disastrous record of a former Prime Minister?s use of the adjective) we have is climate change and we can use the present crisis to delay or accelerate action. I have heard a frequent cry of ?It will be different from now on? and history tells us that this is will not be true unless we make it so. There are powerful conservative forces (in Australia, U.S.A., Brazil etc.) who will try and use this crisis to increase the mining and use of hydrocarbons. As Martin said we are living in the Anthropocene and our success in rapidly reducing the production and sequestering atmospheric carbon dioxide that will determine our future far more than our confused response to Covid-19 (and future communicable diseases). John From: on behalf of David Kellogg Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Date: Wednesday, 8 April 2020 at 7:09 am To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Helena-- Situation in China, courtesy my sister-in-law: life in Beijing is pretty much back to normal at least on the face of it. People are going out to their work units (but there is more work from home than before the crisis). Classes still largely taught from ZOOM. My nephew is in Shanghai, where the situation is somewhat tighter (proximity to Wuhan). Wuhan opened up for real yesterday--people can leave (I lived there for two years in the mid-eighties, but I can barely recognize what I see on the news now....) I have students in Chengdu (who attend my class via ZOOM). People are mostly shopping on line with delivery to the gate of the housing unit rather than to their flat (as we do here in Korea). Air quality better than it's been in decades. Situation here in South Korea: We just extended our lockdown for another two weeks. This is in response to a few days of new infections over a hundred, but the infections are mostly (80%) Koreans from the US and Europe who want to live in a place where the medical system has not broken down or is not in the process of breaking down. There are still some "hotspots" of community transmission, but these are almost all connected with churches or PC cafes. Schools reopen on the 16th, but only online. We have elections in a week, and there is a lot of campaigning going on, including the usual street based campaigning (the right wing opposition campaigns around the curious notion that the government has done absolutely nothing, and the government ignores everybody who is not an actual virus). People shop in stores, and there is no panic buying or disruption of supply chains. The main changes in economic life seem to have to do with transport, and it seems like this too will be permanent (electric scooters are everywhere now). Bowing instead of shaking hands is really not a bad idea, and coffee-shops always were over-rated and over-priced.... But what about you, Helena? (One of the things I have learned on this list is that you get more or less what you give--people tend to use what you write as a model for writing back!) Are you still in Vietnam? Your address says Berkeley and your email says Illinois--those are three very different venues for the virus and the economy. Can you give us a brief account of the situation in each? Stay safe, wherever you are! David Kellogg Sangmyung University Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational action research in Mind Culture and Activity https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 Some free e-prints available at: https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 4:30 AM Martin Packer > wrote: Hi Helena, I share your concerns. And, despite its challenges, this situation seems a great opportunity to apply our distributed expertise(s). I tried to get some discussion going in a group concerned with the Anthropocene, but people seemed disinclined. Martin Here?s the first message that I sent? The current situation is producing important evidence about the probable consequences of the strategies proposed to mitigate climate change. Satellites are showing significant reductions in pollution: https://www.space.com/italy-coronavirus-outbreak-response-reduces-emissions-satellite-images.html Experts are suggesting that as a result the coronavirus may save more lives than it takes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2020/03/11/coronavirus-lockdown-may-save-more-lives-from-pollution-and-climate-than-from-virus/#4a39bb3c5764 So when skeptics ask ?How can you know that reducing air travel will help with climate change?? there is now clear evidence with which to answer them. Also in China: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/04/811019032/why-chinas-air-has-been-cleaner-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak At the same time, I am starting to wonder whether the current health guidelines regarding coronvirus are culturally biased. Can they work in ?collectivist? cultures (to use the shorthand)? The CDC guidelines, for example, include the recommendations to ?Stay home when you are sick,? but also that other members of the household should ?Avoid close contact with people who are sick? and should ?Choose a room in your home that can be used to separate sick household members from those who are healthy. Identify a separate bathroom for the sick person to use, if possible.? This advice is simply not practicable for many households in Colombia. There are not enough rooms; there is no second bathroom. In addition, many infants and young children here are cared for by grandparents, or even great-grandparents (many women here have a baby when young, so an infant may have a grandmother who is in her late 30s and a great-grandmother in her late 50s). The evidence shows that children don?t become very ill, but they do get infected and they can infect other people, among whom elderly caregivers will be the most at risk. So I don?t think social distance and auto-quarantine will work in Colombia. Consider what the Chinese did: they went door-to-door to identify infected family members and removed them to massive collective quarantine setttings. People in the West considered this to be draconian, even cruel. But it made sense: much more cross-infection occurred in Chinese homes than in places like restaurants. Unless the authorities can come up with strategies that are more appropriate to local circumstances and practices, there is likely to be a rapid and elevated peak of infections in Latin American countries. And I see there is a related point here, on ageism: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200313155256.htm On Apr 7, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Helena Worthen > wrote: Hello, XMCA-ers - I don?t remember ever having read that this list was going to shut down or even be allowed to fade away. So now I?m writing, as if in the dark, to the whole list. We?ve now got a major ? maybe ?the? major crisis of the anthropocene on our hands and the distant but connected network represented by the conversations on this list seem to me to be a treasure more precious than gold - and I?m not speaking metaphorically. I am concerned about some of the people who have been pillars and resources on his list, people whom I have reached out to over the years and heard back from with information and perspectives that I would never have been able to access on my own. Where are you now? What are you doing? Are you safe and healthy? Do you have information about friends who are unable to read or respond to this request? I hope to hear some responses to this message. Take care of yourselves, please ? Helena Helena Worthen hworthen@illinois.edu 21 San Mateo Road, Berkeley, CA 94707 Important Notice: The contents of this email are intended solely for the named addressee and are confidential; any unauthorised use, reproduction or storage of the contents is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please delete it and any attachments immediately and advise the sender by return email or telephone. Deakin University does not warrant that this email and any attachments are error or virus free. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200407/80faefe6/attachment-0001.html From a.j.gil@ils.uio.no Tue Apr 7 16:24:55 2020 From: a.j.gil@ils.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2020 23:24:55 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: <7F0038F1-BB8F-4588-ACAC-931CD8F1981B@deakin.edu.au> References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> <7F0038F1-BB8F-4588-ACAC-931CD8F1981B@deakin.edu.au> Message-ID: <8B42FFF1-A8A5-4384-AB90-B9F334480757@uio.no> John, The list you just started about how we, as a relatively privileged community of scholars, can contribute seems to me like one right thing to do, here and elsewhere. Let me copy it here just to amplify and for anyone to expand on it: 1. Supporting our colleagues ? we have unprecedently powerful communication technologies at our disposal ? use them for good rather than evil. This is especially important in Africa and South America where the tidal wave (and I use this term advisedly recalling the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami) is about to hit. 2. Considering the influence of culture (it is in our title) on the worldwide response to Covid-19. David has already flagged the work unit as a unit of social organisation in China. 3. We need to prepare for the post-Covid-19 bounceback once we have a vaccine. The existential crisis (and again I use the word with trepidation after the disastrous record of a former Prime Minister?s use of the adjective) we have is climate change and we can use the present crisis to delay or accelerate action. I have heard a frequent cry of ?It will be different from now on? and history tells us that this is will not be true unless we make it so. There are powerful conservative forces (in Australia, U.S.A., Brazil etc.) who will try and use this crisis to increase the mining and use of hydrocarbons. As Martin said we are living in the Anthropocene and our success in rapidly reducing the production and sequestering atmospheric carbon dioxide that will determine our future far more than our confused response to Covid-19 (and future communicable diseases). 4. .... Just today, we were (and still are) drafting an editorial calling authors/scholars for submissions as to what they think we can contribute; at the immediate timescale of the pandemic crisis, but also at the larger timescale of the decades of climate crisis that we have ahead. I?ll share the text as soon as ready. One thing we?ve been discussing is how in exceptional situations (which begin to be the norm) our roles and functions change (of course!). So that, for example (as our colleague Beth Ferholt was reflecting upon in a conversation), a teacher at a school at an underresourced community, when the school is closed and the community is suffering, reconfigures her role to cater for what she can (even if not being good at or trained for it) with regards to what is needed (whether this is care, money, coping support?). If we think ahead of the present and future crises, how can we rethink our role as academics, as educators, or the place and function of a journal like MCA? I think a list of things we can do is a very concrete way to at least partly address these questions. Thanks! Alfredo From: on behalf of John Cripps Clark Reply to: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Date: Wednesday, 8 April 2020 at 00:43 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Dear Helena and David Here in Australia we have (after a shaky start with returning travellers not taking self-isolation seriously and not quarantining cruise ship passengers) we seem to be following South Korea in containing the virus. The outcry over cruise ships has been revealing. There is a police investigation into one of them (it did lead to over 600 new cases and a few deaths). The hysteria recalls Australia?s experience in the nineteenth century of epidemics and isolating ourselves from plague ships. As always it is the poor and disadvantaged that are suffering. We have tried to isolate the most vulnerable such as remote aboriginal communities and it remains to see whether we will provide the resources necessary for these communities. Past experience is not encouraging since these communities would not be in the present state if we were serious about combatting disadvantage and poverty. On a more parochial level, with extended shutdown and the universities under financial stress (partly this is our own fault by becoming dependent on overseas student fees to supplement the steady erosion of government funding) we also need to support families with children who are cooped up together trying to juggle work, with childcare, with online education over the next two to ten months. I think there are three ways in which we as, a relatively privileged, community of scholars can contribute: 1. Supporting our colleagues ? we have unprecedently powerful communication technologies at our disposal ? use them for good rather than evil. This is especially important in Africa and South America where the tidal wave (and I use this term advisedly recalling the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami) is about to hit. 2. Considering the influence of culture (it is in our title) on the worldwide response to Covid-19. David has already flagged the work unit as a unit of social organisation in China. 3. We need to prepare for the post-Covid-19 bounceback once we have a vaccine. The existential crisis (and again I use the word with trepidation after the disastrous record of a former Prime Minister?s use of the adjective) we have is climate change and we can use the present crisis to delay or accelerate action. I have heard a frequent cry of ?It will be different from now on? and history tells us that this is will not be true unless we make it so. There are powerful conservative forces (in Australia, U.S.A., Brazil etc.) who will try and use this crisis to increase the mining and use of hydrocarbons. As Martin said we are living in the Anthropocene and our success in rapidly reducing the production and sequestering atmospheric carbon dioxide that will determine our future far more than our confused response to Covid-19 (and future communicable diseases). John From: on behalf of David Kellogg Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Date: Wednesday, 8 April 2020 at 7:09 am To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Helena-- Situation in China, courtesy my sister-in-law: life in Beijing is pretty much back to normal at least on the face of it. People are going out to their work units (but there is more work from home than before the crisis). Classes still largely taught from ZOOM. My nephew is in Shanghai, where the situation is somewhat tighter (proximity to Wuhan). Wuhan opened up for real yesterday--people can leave (I lived there for two years in the mid-eighties, but I can barely recognize what I see on the news now....) I have students in Chengdu (who attend my class via ZOOM). People are mostly shopping on line with delivery to the gate of the housing unit rather than to their flat (as we do here in Korea). Air quality better than it's been in decades. Situation here in South Korea: We just extended our lockdown for another two weeks. This is in response to a few days of new infections over a hundred, but the infections are mostly (80%) Koreans from the US and Europe who want to live in a place where the medical system has not broken down or is not in the process of breaking down. There are still some "hotspots" of community transmission, but these are almost all connected with churches or PC cafes. Schools reopen on the 16th, but only online. We have elections in a week, and there is a lot of campaigning going on, including the usual street based campaigning (the right wing opposition campaigns around the curious notion that the government has done absolutely nothing, and the government ignores everybody who is not an actual virus). People shop in stores, and there is no panic buying or disruption of supply chains. The main changes in economic life seem to have to do with transport, and it seems like this too will be permanent (electric scooters are everywhere now). Bowing instead of shaking hands is really not a bad idea, and coffee-shops always were over-rated and over-priced.... But what about you, Helena? (One of the things I have learned on this list is that you get more or less what you give--people tend to use what you write as a model for writing back!) Are you still in Vietnam? Your address says Berkeley and your email says Illinois--those are three very different venues for the virus and the economy. Can you give us a brief account of the situation in each? Stay safe, wherever you are! David Kellogg Sangmyung University Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational action research in Mind Culture and Activity https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 Some free e-prints available at: https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 4:30 AM Martin Packer > wrote: Hi Helena, I share your concerns. And, despite its challenges, this situation seems a great opportunity to apply our distributed expertise(s). I tried to get some discussion going in a group concerned with the Anthropocene, but people seemed disinclined. Martin Here?s the first message that I sent? The current situation is producing important evidence about the probable consequences of the strategies proposed to mitigate climate change. Satellites are showing significant reductions in pollution: https://www.space.com/italy-coronavirus-outbreak-response-reduces-emissions-satellite-images.html Experts are suggesting that as a result the coronavirus may save more lives than it takes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2020/03/11/coronavirus-lockdown-may-save-more-lives-from-pollution-and-climate-than-from-virus/#4a39bb3c5764 So when skeptics ask ?How can you know that reducing air travel will help with climate change?? there is now clear evidence with which to answer them. Also in China: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/04/811019032/why-chinas-air-has-been-cleaner-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak At the same time, I am starting to wonder whether the current health guidelines regarding coronvirus are culturally biased. Can they work in ?collectivist? cultures (to use the shorthand)? The CDC guidelines, for example, include the recommendations to ?Stay home when you are sick,? but also that other members of the household should ?Avoid close contact with people who are sick? and should ?Choose a room in your home that can be used to separate sick household members from those who are healthy. Identify a separate bathroom for the sick person to use, if possible.? This advice is simply not practicable for many households in Colombia. There are not enough rooms; there is no second bathroom. In addition, many infants and young children here are cared for by grandparents, or even great-grandparents (many women here have a baby when young, so an infant may have a grandmother who is in her late 30s and a great-grandmother in her late 50s). The evidence shows that children don?t become very ill, but they do get infected and they can infect other people, among whom elderly caregivers will be the most at risk. So I don?t think social distance and auto-quarantine will work in Colombia. Consider what the Chinese did: they went door-to-door to identify infected family members and removed them to massive collective quarantine setttings. People in the West considered this to be draconian, even cruel. But it made sense: much more cross-infection occurred in Chinese homes than in places like restaurants. Unless the authorities can come up with strategies that are more appropriate to local circumstances and practices, there is likely to be a rapid and elevated peak of infections in Latin American countries. And I see there is a related point here, on ageism: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200313155256.htm On Apr 7, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Helena Worthen > wrote: Hello, XMCA-ers - I don?t remember ever having read that this list was going to shut down or even be allowed to fade away. So now I?m writing, as if in the dark, to the whole list. We?ve now got a major ? maybe ?the? major crisis of the anthropocene on our hands and the distant but connected network represented by the conversations on this list seem to me to be a treasure more precious than gold - and I?m not speaking metaphorically. I am concerned about some of the people who have been pillars and resources on his list, people whom I have reached out to over the years and heard back from with information and perspectives that I would never have been able to access on my own. Where are you now? What are you doing? Are you safe and healthy? Do you have information about friends who are unable to read or respond to this request? I hope to hear some responses to this message. Take care of yourselves, please ? Helena Helena Worthen hworthen@illinois.edu 21 San Mateo Road, Berkeley, CA 94707 Important Notice: The contents of this email are intended solely for the named addressee and are confidential; any unauthorised use, reproduction or storage of the contents is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please delete it and any attachments immediately and advise the sender by return email or telephone. Deakin University does not warrant that this email and any attachments are error or virus free. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200407/4ef5573b/attachment.html From john.crippsclark@deakin.edu.au Tue Apr 7 16:42:07 2020 From: john.crippsclark@deakin.edu.au (John Cripps Clark) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2020 23:42:07 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: <8B42FFF1-A8A5-4384-AB90-B9F334480757@uio.no> References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> <7F0038F1-BB8F-4588-ACAC-931CD8F1981B@deakin.edu.au> <8B42FFF1-A8A5-4384-AB90-B9F334480757@uio.no> Message-ID: <61AFAF5D-C6F2-459E-9A5A-B14FE2DF6B22@deakin.edu.au> Alfredo Your email reminds me of another issue. When I was doing my doctorate, I came across the writing of the remarkable South African mathematics educator, Renuka Vithal. She pointed out the assumption of continuity is an assumption of wealth (or the North as she phrases it ? it always seems jarring in Australia). Disruption is in fact the norm and this is not a recent phenomenon. The need for ?care, money, coping support? was always there but hidden. In disruption we can see through the cracks what is below the surface. This is also what good theory does so we should be doubly powerful. John Vithal, R. (1998). Disruptions and data: The politics of doing mathematics research in South Africa. Paper presented at the Sixth annual meeting of the Southern African Association for Research in Mathematics and Science Education, University of South Africa. Valero, P., & Vithal, R. (1998). Research methods of "north" revisited from the "south". Paper presented at the Proceedings of the Twenty-second Conference of the International Group for the Psychology of Mathematics Education, Stellenbosch, South Africa. From: on behalf of Alfredo Jornet Gil Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Date: Wednesday, 8 April 2020 at 9:28 am To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? John, The list you just started about how we, as a relatively privileged community of scholars, can contribute seems to me like one right thing to do, here and elsewhere. Let me copy it here just to amplify and for anyone to expand on it: 1. Supporting our colleagues ? we have unprecedently powerful communication technologies at our disposal ? use them for good rather than evil. This is especially important in Africa and South America where the tidal wave (and I use this term advisedly recalling the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami) is about to hit. 2. Considering the influence of culture (it is in our title) on the worldwide response to Covid-19. David has already flagged the work unit as a unit of social organisation in China. 3. We need to prepare for the post-Covid-19 bounceback once we have a vaccine. The existential crisis (and again I use the word with trepidation after the disastrous record of a former Prime Minister?s use of the adjective) we have is climate change and we can use the present crisis to delay or accelerate action. I have heard a frequent cry of ?It will be different from now on? and history tells us that this is will not be true unless we make it so. There are powerful conservative forces (in Australia, U.S.A., Brazil etc.) who will try and use this crisis to increase the mining and use of hydrocarbons. As Martin said we are living in the Anthropocene and our success in rapidly reducing the production and sequestering atmospheric carbon dioxide that will determine our future far more than our confused response to Covid-19 (and future communicable diseases). 4. .... Just today, we were (and still are) drafting an editorial calling authors/scholars for submissions as to what they think we can contribute; at the immediate timescale of the pandemic crisis, but also at the larger timescale of the decades of climate crisis that we have ahead. I?ll share the text as soon as ready. One thing we?ve been discussing is how in exceptional situations (which begin to be the norm) our roles and functions change (of course!). So that, for example (as our colleague Beth Ferholt was reflecting upon in a conversation), a teacher at a school at an underresourced community, when the school is closed and the community is suffering, reconfigures her role to cater for what she can (even if not being good at or trained for it) with regards to what is needed (whether this is care, money, coping support?). If we think ahead of the present and future crises, how can we rethink our role as academics, as educators, or the place and function of a journal like MCA? I think a list of things we can do is a very concrete way to at least partly address these questions. Thanks! Alfredo From: on behalf of John Cripps Clark Reply to: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Date: Wednesday, 8 April 2020 at 00:43 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Dear Helena and David Here in Australia we have (after a shaky start with returning travellers not taking self-isolation seriously and not quarantining cruise ship passengers) we seem to be following South Korea in containing the virus. The outcry over cruise ships has been revealing. There is a police investigation into one of them (it did lead to over 600 new cases and a few deaths). The hysteria recalls Australia?s experience in the nineteenth century of epidemics and isolating ourselves from plague ships. As always it is the poor and disadvantaged that are suffering. We have tried to isolate the most vulnerable such as remote aboriginal communities and it remains to see whether we will provide the resources necessary for these communities. Past experience is not encouraging since these communities would not be in the present state if we were serious about combatting disadvantage and poverty. On a more parochial level, with extended shutdown and the universities under financial stress (partly this is our own fault by becoming dependent on overseas student fees to supplement the steady erosion of government funding) we also need to support families with children who are cooped up together trying to juggle work, with childcare, with online education over the next two to ten months. I think there are three ways in which we as, a relatively privileged, community of scholars can contribute: 1. Supporting our colleagues ? we have unprecedently powerful communication technologies at our disposal ? use them for good rather than evil. This is especially important in Africa and South America where the tidal wave (and I use this term advisedly recalling the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami) is about to hit. 2. Considering the influence of culture (it is in our title) on the worldwide response to Covid-19. David has already flagged the work unit as a unit of social organisation in China. 3. We need to prepare for the post-Covid-19 bounceback once we have a vaccine. The existential crisis (and again I use the word with trepidation after the disastrous record of a former Prime Minister?s use of the adjective) we have is climate change and we can use the present crisis to delay or accelerate action. I have heard a frequent cry of ?It will be different from now on? and history tells us that this is will not be true unless we make it so. There are powerful conservative forces (in Australia, U.S.A., Brazil etc.) who will try and use this crisis to increase the mining and use of hydrocarbons. As Martin said we are living in the Anthropocene and our success in rapidly reducing the production and sequestering atmospheric carbon dioxide that will determine our future far more than our confused response to Covid-19 (and future communicable diseases). John From: on behalf of David Kellogg Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Date: Wednesday, 8 April 2020 at 7:09 am To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Helena-- Situation in China, courtesy my sister-in-law: life in Beijing is pretty much back to normal at least on the face of it. People are going out to their work units (but there is more work from home than before the crisis). Classes still largely taught from ZOOM. My nephew is in Shanghai, where the situation is somewhat tighter (proximity to Wuhan). Wuhan opened up for real yesterday--people can leave (I lived there for two years in the mid-eighties, but I can barely recognize what I see on the news now....) I have students in Chengdu (who attend my class via ZOOM). People are mostly shopping on line with delivery to the gate of the housing unit rather than to their flat (as we do here in Korea). Air quality better than it's been in decades. Situation here in South Korea: We just extended our lockdown for another two weeks. This is in response to a few days of new infections over a hundred, but the infections are mostly (80%) Koreans from the US and Europe who want to live in a place where the medical system has not broken down or is not in the process of breaking down. There are still some "hotspots" of community transmission, but these are almost all connected with churches or PC cafes. Schools reopen on the 16th, but only online. We have elections in a week, and there is a lot of campaigning going on, including the usual street based campaigning (the right wing opposition campaigns around the curious notion that the government has done absolutely nothing, and the government ignores everybody who is not an actual virus). People shop in stores, and there is no panic buying or disruption of supply chains. The main changes in economic life seem to have to do with transport, and it seems like this too will be permanent (electric scooters are everywhere now). Bowing instead of shaking hands is really not a bad idea, and coffee-shops always were over-rated and over-priced.... But what about you, Helena? (One of the things I have learned on this list is that you get more or less what you give--people tend to use what you write as a model for writing back!) Are you still in Vietnam? Your address says Berkeley and your email says Illinois--those are three very different venues for the virus and the economy. Can you give us a brief account of the situation in each? Stay safe, wherever you are! David Kellogg Sangmyung University Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational action research in Mind Culture and Activity https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 Some free e-prints available at: https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 4:30 AM Martin Packer > wrote: Hi Helena, I share your concerns. And, despite its challenges, this situation seems a great opportunity to apply our distributed expertise(s). I tried to get some discussion going in a group concerned with the Anthropocene, but people seemed disinclined. Martin Here?s the first message that I sent? The current situation is producing important evidence about the probable consequences of the strategies proposed to mitigate climate change. Satellites are showing significant reductions in pollution: https://www.space.com/italy-coronavirus-outbreak-response-reduces-emissions-satellite-images.html Experts are suggesting that as a result the coronavirus may save more lives than it takes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2020/03/11/coronavirus-lockdown-may-save-more-lives-from-pollution-and-climate-than-from-virus/#4a39bb3c5764 So when skeptics ask ?How can you know that reducing air travel will help with climate change?? there is now clear evidence with which to answer them. Also in China: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/04/811019032/why-chinas-air-has-been-cleaner-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak At the same time, I am starting to wonder whether the current health guidelines regarding coronvirus are culturally biased. Can they work in ?collectivist? cultures (to use the shorthand)? The CDC guidelines, for example, include the recommendations to ?Stay home when you are sick,? but also that other members of the household should ?Avoid close contact with people who are sick? and should ?Choose a room in your home that can be used to separate sick household members from those who are healthy. Identify a separate bathroom for the sick person to use, if possible.? This advice is simply not practicable for many households in Colombia. There are not enough rooms; there is no second bathroom. In addition, many infants and young children here are cared for by grandparents, or even great-grandparents (many women here have a baby when young, so an infant may have a grandmother who is in her late 30s and a great-grandmother in her late 50s). The evidence shows that children don?t become very ill, but they do get infected and they can infect other people, among whom elderly caregivers will be the most at risk. So I don?t think social distance and auto-quarantine will work in Colombia. Consider what the Chinese did: they went door-to-door to identify infected family members and removed them to massive collective quarantine setttings. People in the West considered this to be draconian, even cruel. But it made sense: much more cross-infection occurred in Chinese homes than in places like restaurants. Unless the authorities can come up with strategies that are more appropriate to local circumstances and practices, there is likely to be a rapid and elevated peak of infections in Latin American countries. And I see there is a related point here, on ageism: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200313155256.htm On Apr 7, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Helena Worthen > wrote: Hello, XMCA-ers - I don?t remember ever having read that this list was going to shut down or even be allowed to fade away. So now I?m writing, as if in the dark, to the whole list. We?ve now got a major ? maybe ?the? major crisis of the anthropocene on our hands and the distant but connected network represented by the conversations on this list seem to me to be a treasure more precious than gold - and I?m not speaking metaphorically. I am concerned about some of the people who have been pillars and resources on his list, people whom I have reached out to over the years and heard back from with information and perspectives that I would never have been able to access on my own. Where are you now? What are you doing? Are you safe and healthy? Do you have information about friends who are unable to read or respond to this request? I hope to hear some responses to this message. Take care of yourselves, please ? Helena Helena Worthen hworthen@illinois.edu 21 San Mateo Road, Berkeley, CA 94707 Important Notice: The contents of this email are intended solely for the named addressee and are confidential; any unauthorised use, reproduction or storage of the contents is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please delete it and any attachments immediately and advise the sender by return email or telephone. Deakin University does not warrant that this email and any attachments are error or virus free. Important Notice: The contents of this email are intended solely for the named addressee and are confidential; any unauthorised use, reproduction or storage of the contents is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please delete it and any attachments immediately and advise the sender by return email or telephone. Deakin University does not warrant that this email and any attachments are error or virus free. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200407/fb19e59b/attachment.html From andyb@marxists.org Tue Apr 7 17:25:01 2020 From: andyb@marxists.org (Andy Blunden) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 10:25:01 +1000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: <7F0038F1-BB8F-4588-ACAC-931CD8F1981B@deakin.edu.au> References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> <7F0038F1-BB8F-4588-ACAC-931CD8F1981B@deakin.edu.au> Message-ID: Thanks for? summing up the situation here in Oz, John. I think you are more connected than me. But it remains the case that we have had 50 deaths from COVID-19 in a country of 25 million, overwhelmingly from virus acquired overseas or directly traceable to overseas cases. This outcome corresponds to a transformation of the political landscape is which unbelievable, but everything depends on how we respond to these changes. So I call this not an "existential crisis", but a world-/perezhivanie/. China may well return to almost-normal but that is unlikely in the neo-liberal world. It is impossible to predict what the outcome will be, but it will be a self-transformation of the world activity. Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ *Andy Blunden* Hegel for Social Movements Home Page On 8/04/2020 8:34 am, John Cripps Clark wrote: > > Dear Helena and David > > Here in Australia we have (after a shaky start with > returning travellers not taking self-isolation seriously > > and not quarantining cruise ship passengers) we seem to be > following South Korea in containing the virus. The outcry > over cruise ships has been revealing. There is a police > investigation > > into one of them (it did lead to over 600 new cases and a > few deaths). The hysteria recalls Australia?s experience > in the nineteenth century of epidemics > and > isolating ourselves from plague ships > . > > > As always it is the poor and disadvantaged that are > suffering. We have tried to isolate the most vulnerable > such as remote aboriginal ?communities > > and it remains to see whether we will provide the > resources necessary for these communities. Past experience > is not encouraging since these communities would not be in > the present state if we were serious about combatting > disadvantage and poverty > . > > On a more parochial level, with extended shutdown and the > universities under financial stress (partly this is our > own fault by becoming dependent on overseas student fees > > to supplement the steady erosion of government funding) we > also need to support families with children who are cooped > up together trying to juggle work, with childcare, with > online education over the next two to ten months. > > I think there are three ways in which we as, a relatively > privileged, community of scholars can contribute: > > 1. Supporting our colleagues ? we have unprecedently > powerful communication technologies at our disposal ? > use them for good rather than evil. This is especially > important in Africa and South America where the tidal > wave (and I use this term advisedly recalling the 2004 > Indian Ocean tsunami > ) is > about to hit. > 2. Considering the influence of culture (it is in our > title) on the worldwide response to Covid-19. David > has already flagged the work unit as a unit of social > organisation in China. > 3. We need to prepare for the post-Covid-19 bounceback > once we have a vaccine. The existential crisis (and > again I use the word with trepidation after the > disastrous record of a former Prime Minister?s use of > the adjective > ) we > have is climate change and we can use the present > crisis to delay or accelerate action. I have heard a > frequent cry of ?It will be different from now on? and > history tells us that this is will not be true unless > we make it so. There are powerful conservative forces > (in Australia, U.S.A., Brazil etc.) who will try and > use this crisis to increase the mining and use of > hydrocarbons. As Martin said we are living in the > Anthropocene and our success in rapidly reducing the > production and sequestering atmospheric carbon dioxide > that will determine our future far more than our > confused response to Covid-19 (and future communicable > diseases). > > John > > *From: * on behalf of > David Kellogg > *Reply-To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > > *Date: *Wednesday, 8 April 2020 at 7:09 am > *To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > > *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? > > Helena-- > > Situation in China, courtesy my sister-in-law: life in > Beijing?is pretty much?back to normal at least on the face > of it. People are going out to their work units (but there > is more work from home than before the crisis).?Classes > still largely taught from ZOOM. My nephew is in > Shanghai,?where the situation is somewhat tighter > (proximity to Wuhan).?Wuhan opened up for real > yesterday--people can leave (I lived there for two years > in the mid-eighties, but I can barely recognize what I see > on the news now....) I have students in Chengdu (who > attend my class via ZOOM). People are mostly shopping on > line with delivery to the gate of the housing unit rather > than to their flat (as we do here in Korea). Air quality > better than it's been in decades. > > Situation here in South?Korea: We just extended our > lockdown for another two weeks. This is in response to a > few days of new infections over a hundred, but the > infections are mostly (80%)?Koreans from the US and Europe > who want to live in a place where the medical system has > not broken down or is not in the process of breaking down. > There are still some "hotspots" of community transmission, > but these are almost all connected with churches or PC > cafes. Schools reopen?on the 16th, but only online.?We > have elections in a week, and there is a lot of > campaigning going on, including the usual street based > campaigning (the right wing opposition campaigns around > the curious notion that the government has done absolutely > nothing, and the government?ignores everybody who is not > an?actual virus). People shop in stores, and there is no > panic buying or disruption of supply chains. The main > changes in economic life seem to have to do with > transport, and it seems like this too will be permanent > (electric scooters are everywhere now). Bowing instead of > shaking hands?is really not a bad idea, and > coffee-shops?always were?over-rated and over-priced.... > > But what about you, Helena? (One of the things I have > learned on this list is that you get more or less what you > give--people tend to use what you write as a model for > writing back!) Are you still in Vietnam? Your address says > Berkeley and your email says Illinois--those are three > very different venues for the virus and the economy. Can > you give us a brief account of the situation in each? > > Stay safe, wherever you are! > > > David Kellogg > > Sangmyung University > > Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal > of /Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: > Phenomenal forms and educational action research / > > in /Mind Culture and Activity/ > > /https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847/ > > Some free e-prints available at: > > https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 > > New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's > Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" > > https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 > > On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 4:30 AM Martin Packer > > wrote: > > Hi Helena, > > I share your concerns. And, despite its challenges, > this situation seems a great opportunity to apply our > distributed expertise(s). I tried to get some > discussion going in a group concerned with the > Anthropocene, but people seemed disinclined. > > Martin > > Here?s the first message that I sent? > > The current situation is producing important evidence > about the probable consequences of the strategies > proposed to mitigate climate change. Satellites are > showing significant reductions in pollution: > > https://www.space.com/italy-coronavirus-outbreak-response-reduces-emissions-satellite-images.html > > Experts are suggesting that as a result the > coronavirus may save more lives than it takes: > > https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2020/03/11/coronavirus-lockdown-may-save-more-lives-from-pollution-and-climate-than-from-virus/#4a39bb3c5764 > > So when skeptics ask ?How can you know that reducing > air travel will help with climate change?? there is > now clear evidence with which to answer them. > > Also in China: > > https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/04/811019032/why-chinas-air-has-been-cleaner-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak > > At the same time, I am starting to wonder whether the > current health guidelines regarding coronvirus are > culturally biased. Can they work in ?collectivist? > cultures (to use the shorthand)? The CDC guidelines, > for example, include the recommendations to ?Stay home > when you are sick,? but also that other members of the > household should ?Avoid close contact with people who > are sick? and should ?Choose a room in your home that > can be used to separate sick household members from > those who are healthy. Identify a separate bathroom > for the sick person to use, if possible.? > > This advice is simply not practicable for many > households in Colombia. There are not enough rooms; > there is no second bathroom. In addition, many infants > and young children here are cared for by grandparents, > or even great-grandparents (many women here have a > baby when young, so an infant may have a grandmother > who is in her late 30s and a great-grandmother in her > late 50s). The evidence shows that children don?t > become very ill, but they do get infected and they can > infect other people, among whom elderly caregivers > will be the most at risk. > > So I don?t think social distance and auto-quarantine > will work in Colombia. Consider what the Chinese did: > they went door-to-door to identify infected family > members and removed them to massive collective > quarantine setttings. People in the West considered > this to be draconian, even cruel. But it made sense: > much more cross-infection occurred in Chinese homes > than in places like restaurants. > > Unless the authorities can come up with strategies > that are more appropriate to local circumstances and > practices, there is likely to be a rapid and elevated > peak of infections in Latin American countries. > > And I see there is a related point here, on ageism: > > https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200313155256.htm > > > > On Apr 7, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Helena Worthen > > wrote: > > Hello, XMCA-ers - > > I don?t remember ever having read that this list > was going to shut down or even be allowed to fade > away. So now I?m writing, as if in the dark, to > the whole list.? We?ve now got a major ? maybe > ?the? major crisis of the anthropocene on our > hands and the distant but connected network > represented by the conversations on this list seem > to me to be a treasure more precious than gold - > and I?m not speaking metaphorically. > > I am concerned about some of the people who have > been pillars and resources on his list, people > whom I have reached out to over the years and > heard back from with information and perspectives > that I would never have been able to access on my > own. Where are you now? What are you doing? Are > you safe and healthy? Do you have information > about friends who are unable to read or respond to > this request? > > I hope to hear some responses to this message. > > Take care of yourselves, please ? > > Helena > > Helena Worthen > > hworthen@illinois.edu > > 21 San Mateo Road, Berkeley, CA 94707 > > /* > Important Notice:* The contents of this email are intended > solely for the named addressee and are confidential; any > unauthorised use, reproduction or storage of the contents > is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email > in error, please delete it and any attachments immediately > and advise the sender by return email or telephone. > > Deakin University does not warrant that this email and any > attachments are error or virus free./ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200408/fd892700/attachment.html From goncu@uic.edu Tue Apr 7 20:32:14 2020 From: goncu@uic.edu (Goncu, Artin) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 03:32:14 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> Message-ID: Hi Helena and all, Yes, I am still in Chicago. I retired from my post in 2013 but Heriberto (my spouse) works for the EPA here and is very active with the union there. Both for that and for personal reasons, we have stayed here. I (used to) travel, mostly going to Turkey for regular gigs. Actually, I just returned from there in mid March leaving every work project in the middle in order not to lose my chance of coming back home. Good thing I did that; Turkish Airlines stopped flying to the US in late March. Situation in Chicago, unfortunately, is not a good one. I follow our governor?s briefings on a daily basis. It is said that this and next week will be the hardest for us. The numbers of new diagnoses and the deaths are on the rise. There is not sufficient numbers of many different kinds of supplies, and the governor is in a constant struggle to receive some federal aid? People, especially those of us over 60, are asked to stay at home. We can go out for shopping and exercise and for walking dogs. Everyone is encouraged to wear masks when they go out. People are explicitly asked to stay away from one another in almost all shopping places. The floors are marked to make sure that people follow this rule. Most business has come to a halt. From what I can tell, only grocery and hardware stores, and pharmacies are open. All schooling is online. There is some rumor that some schools may close early for the year.. Situation in Turkey? One former President once said that there are no homosexuals (sic) in Turkey because it is against the national character.. Like that the current one and his government denied the Covid-19 problem for a very long time. After the pressure from the World Health Organization and other institutions they began to report some numbers. According to my own sources, nobody knows exactly how many people have it and how many died. Only a few days ago I read that in the region of Bergama alone 800 people died. And some people saw mass graves but none of these was in the news? Situation in Armenia is more contained based on informal reports I receive. So far, I only lost a beloved aunt in a nursing home in Long Island, and hope that this disaster comes to an end before it causes more damage and loss. For whatever it is worth, Heriberto and I started local organizing here with neighbors and small business owners with the purpose of extending support to those who are in need. All the best, artin Artin Goncu, Ph.D Professor, Emeritus University of Illinois at Chicago www.artingoncu.com/ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Helena Worthen Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2020 5:07 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Cc: djnh.ltd@gmail.com; Sally Mju Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Hi, David ? on this list I use my academic U of Illinois email, which still works, but we don?t live there ? we left Illinois in 2010. Artin Goncu just responded in this list ? maybe he can tell us what he sees in Illinois. Artin, you?re in Chicago, aren?t you? We left Viet Nam about a year ago. The labor law there was changing (pulling more power into the center, but also strenthening local representation) and our department was changing to become more of a HR and Business Administration department. I don?t know if Uyen or Dinh ever joined this list; they participated in the CHAT Re-Gen discussions, Uyen (Sally) as a student in HoChiMinh City and Dinh from his afterschool program (based on Vygotskian concepts) in Phan Rang. They might speak up if they can ?I?ll nudge them by copying them. Joe and I are in a bubble in Berkeley, CA in an old residential neighborhood with lots of walking paths and good fruit and vegetable stores. We just did a 3rd draft of our book on contingency in higher ed. We?ve been touched by the wildfires (one county to the north) that covered us with stinky smoke for a couple of weeks last fall, and by the various droughts that resulted in water rationing, etc. but these were all geographically local and we could walk or drive away from them and pretend it didn?t really happen. As compared to this. I swing back and forth between feeling joyful to see deer in the street and hear birds singing and other signs of less traffic and pollution ? and on the other hand, becoming aware of two kinds of grief, one because of individuals who have died or who are vulnerable and probably will die, the second because of the challenge of imagining what kind of world the next generation will live in, and what will be lost to them because we were never able to communicate it well enough. I find myself imagining the emotions of Jewish families in Europe as the menace of facism became clearer, and those of the indigenous people of California ? the Miwok, for example, and the Chochenyo, who lived right here where I am now ? and saw their languages disappearing as their population was killed and dispersed. This second kind of grief seems to be something people can talk about - it?s collective, cultural. Not unrelated to this list! Finally, David, since you encouraged me to write: yesterday our son-in-law went grocery shopping for us at an enormous food emporium and brought home three large cucmbers, four ripe tomatoes of middle size, and a plastic bag of hearts of romaine. How much did it cost? $18.00. With best wishes to all ? Helena Worthen helenaworthen@gmail.com hworthen@illinois.edu On Apr 7, 2020, at 2:02 PM, David Kellogg > wrote: Helena-- Situation in China, courtesy my sister-in-law: life in Beijing is pretty much back to normal at least on the face of it. People are going out to their work units (but there is more work from home than before the crisis). Classes still largely taught from ZOOM. My nephew is in Shanghai, where the situation is somewhat tighter (proximity to Wuhan). Wuhan opened up for real yesterday--people can leave (I lived there for two years in the mid-eighties, but I can barely recognize what I see on the news now....) I have students in Chengdu (who attend my class via ZOOM). People are mostly shopping on line with delivery to the gate of the housing unit rather than to their flat (as we do here in Korea). Air quality better than it's been in decades. Situation here in South Korea: We just extended our lockdown for another two weeks. This is in response to a few days of new infections over a hundred, but the infections are mostly (80%) Koreans from the US and Europe who want to live in a place where the medical system has not broken down or is not in the process of breaking down. There are still some "hotspots" of community transmission, but these are almost all connected with churches or PC cafes. Schools reopen on the 16th, but only online. We have elections in a week, and there is a lot of campaigning going on, including the usual street based campaigning (the right wing opposition campaigns around the curious notion that the government has done absolutely nothing, and the government ignores everybody who is not an actual virus). People shop in stores, and there is no panic buying or disruption of supply chains. The main changes in economic life seem to have to do with transport, and it seems like this too will be permanent (electric scooters are everywhere now). Bowing instead of shaking hands is really not a bad idea, and coffee-shops always were over-rated and over-priced.... But what about you, Helena? (One of the things I have learned on this list is that you get more or less what you give--people tend to use what you write as a model for writing back!) Are you still in Vietnam? Your address says Berkeley and your email says Illinois--those are three very different venues for the virus and the economy. Can you give us a brief account of the situation in each? Stay safe, wherever you are! David Kellogg Sangmyung University Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational action research in Mind Culture and Activity https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 Some free e-prints available at: https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 4:30 AM Martin Packer > wrote: Hi Helena, I share your concerns. And, despite its challenges, this situation seems a great opportunity to apply our distributed expertise(s). I tried to get some discussion going in a group concerned with the Anthropocene, but people seemed disinclined. Martin Here?s the first message that I sent? The current situation is producing important evidence about the probable consequences of the strategies proposed to mitigate climate change. Satellites are showing significant reductions in pollution: https://www.space.com/italy-coronavirus-outbreak-response-reduces-emissions-satellite-images.html Experts are suggesting that as a result the coronavirus may save more lives than it takes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2020/03/11/coronavirus-lockdown-may-save-more-lives-from-pollution-and-climate-than-from-virus/#4a39bb3c5764 So when skeptics ask ?How can you know that reducing air travel will help with climate change?? there is now clear evidence with which to answer them. Also in China: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/04/811019032/why-chinas-air-has-been-cleaner-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak At the same time, I am starting to wonder whether the current health guidelines regarding coronvirus are culturally biased. Can they work in ?collectivist? cultures (to use the shorthand)? The CDC guidelines, for example, include the recommendations to ?Stay home when you are sick,? but also that other members of the household should ?Avoid close contact with people who are sick? and should ?Choose a room in your home that can be used to separate sick household members from those who are healthy. Identify a separate bathroom for the sick person to use, if possible.? This advice is simply not practicable for many households in Colombia. There are not enough rooms; there is no second bathroom. In addition, many infants and young children here are cared for by grandparents, or even great-grandparents (many women here have a baby when young, so an infant may have a grandmother who is in her late 30s and a great-grandmother in her late 50s). The evidence shows that children don?t become very ill, but they do get infected and they can infect other people, among whom elderly caregivers will be the most at risk. So I don?t think social distance and auto-quarantine will work in Colombia. Consider what the Chinese did: they went door-to-door to identify infected family members and removed them to massive collective quarantine setttings. People in the West considered this to be draconian, even cruel. But it made sense: much more cross-infection occurred in Chinese homes than in places like restaurants. Unless the authorities can come up with strategies that are more appropriate to local circumstances and practices, there is likely to be a rapid and elevated peak of infections in Latin American countries. And I see there is a related point here, on ageism: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200313155256.htm On Apr 7, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Helena Worthen > wrote: Hello, XMCA-ers - I don?t remember ever having read that this list was going to shut down or even be allowed to fade away. So now I?m writing, as if in the dark, to the whole list. We?ve now got a major ? maybe ?the? major crisis of the anthropocene on our hands and the distant but connected network represented by the conversations on this list seem to me to be a treasure more precious than gold - and I?m not speaking metaphorically. I am concerned about some of the people who have been pillars and resources on his list, people whom I have reached out to over the years and heard back from with information and perspectives that I would never have been able to access on my own. Where are you now? What are you doing? Are you safe and healthy? Do you have information about friends who are unable to read or respond to this request? I hope to hear some responses to this message. Take care of yourselves, please ? Helena Helena Worthen hworthen@illinois.edu 21 San Mateo Road, Berkeley, CA 94707 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200408/0b8d6974/attachment.html From VanDerRiet@ukzn.ac.za Wed Apr 8 00:38:25 2020 From: VanDerRiet@ukzn.ac.za (Mary van der Riet) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 07:38:25 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> <7F0038F1-BB8F-4588-ACAC-931CD8F1981B@deakin.edu.au>, Message-ID: Hi everyone Here is South Africa we are in lockdown until 16 April. This means only trips to grocery shops, doctors and pharmacies. Unfortunately no walking or exercise outside one's property. This seems to have slowed the infection rate 1749 cases and 13 deaths (58 million population). Cases were initially related to international travel, but are now also internal (health care workers, the elderly, church goers. whether the lock down is extended is under review Hotly contested issues are * a restriction on the number of people allowed to travel in mini-bus taxis - people need to travel to get to essential service jobs, and to shop (apartheid planning still means that people are far from city centres) * whether a ban on cigarette and alcohol sales is constitutional; a ban on buying anything non essential (the topic today is whether baby clothes giving change in season are now an essential item) * the banning of religious events (we are coming up to Easter), and ceremonies around funerals are restricted in size. Hotspots of infection have been related to church gatherings. * an increase in domestic and gender based violence incidence (although an decline in overall crime figures) * a concern that being restricted to one's 'home' is very challenging for those living in informal settlements (shacks) and living with many people in one space. * a massive impact on small businesses and the informal economy (which involves most of the SA population - street hawkers, small 'spaza' shops (the government is trying to address this through tax breaks, a fund that people can apply to, and possibly increasing the social grant allocations - pensioners, child care grant etc) * a loss of jobs as businesses retrench under lockdown * conspiracy theories about how it is spread (at least two arrests of people circulating fake information - such as the nasal swab testing with an earbud is infecting people with the virus - a video made by a white male). There seems to be an anti-government stance developing in SA; including fake news that 5G spreads Corona (a white male pastor saying this); scams and hacking of social media are also occuring. Government is making Whatsapp admin liable for the spread of fake news in SA * an increase in human rights violations by the defence force and police ,and private security companies (abuse of people who have flouted the lock down regulations). In the media I have seen of these instances it feels as if this is unchecked. Government response has been 'people must obey the rules and report incidences of abuse'. There are echoes of armies in the townships in the 70'and 80's and rather disturbing images. I fear a return to a police state (surveillance is happening through cell phones, we are asked to report on neighbours whom we suspect have the virus, we are jailed if we escape lockdown or resist testing) * the policing, surveillance and criminalisation of the homeless (who have been moved to temporary shelters) * a real concern about the continuation of schooling and university education. Most South Africans do not have internet access - online and home schooling will be a problem both because of lack of resources, but also because of lack of space to study, lack of skills amongst parents to help; teachers and lecturers are being asked to train themselves, use resources etc, but they are also amongst the under-resourced * most South Africans not having adequate access to proper sanitation (water especially), this constraints health care practices related to preventing the prevention such as handwashing. * most South Africans also cant afford masks or hand sanitisers * lack of protective clothing for health care workers (there have been protests about this, and the government does seem to be responding (Im sure other SAfricans on the list could correct me and add to this) It feels as if this is the relative calm before the storm. We dont know what is going to happen. It is making people very anxious. We have a huge population of people who are HIV positive. Many but not all are using ARV treatment and this might help. Many South Africans also have TB, and not all are on treatment. These conditions compromise the immune system and might make the spread faster (once it gets into the general population). On the other hand some of these health issues have allowed a mechanism for increasing testing - there is now a roll out of testing using TB health systems and community mobile services. These are being directly at hotspots On the more positive side, this situation seems to have united political parties and shown President Cyril Ramaphosa's leadership skills . And there is a proliferation of online cultural activity (see the Centre for the less good idea - livestreaming premiers - really good SA theatre) which I can now attend as I am 'at home' Personally I am trying to manage the multiple tasks which come from working from home, solo parenting, doing child care and house care, whilst also managing my own existential anxiety. The pressure to 'be productive' and 'use the time' and 'take a break' are competing and contradictory, let alone take on online teaching, train oneself up etc. I think there is an extreme burden on women to hold the family fort, produce meals, entertain children, keep the peace, and of course, work (like Newton - publish more, focus more). And there is 'online fatigue', a wonderful expression that a friend used. However, I'm also trying to explore ways to engage in research online - constrained here in SA, and for qualitative research it feels 'wrong' as it might only access the more wealthy, resourced parts of our population. I really appreciate the global community at this time. For example the ISCHP listserve had a wonderful question about how to do community and participatory research in this time and there were a flood of responses. I also participated in a Zoom sessions of the European Community Psychology Association and learnt a lot from many of the Italians in the group. But, we are ok. I keep telling myself it will be ok. I hope best wishes Mary ________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Andy Blunden Sent: Wednesday, 08 April 2020 02:25 To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Thanks for summing up the situation here in Oz, John. I think you are more connected than me. But it remains the case that we have had 50 deaths from COVID-19 in a country of 25 million, overwhelmingly from virus acquired overseas or directly traceable to overseas cases. This outcome corresponds to a transformation of the political landscape is which unbelievable, but everything depends on how we respond to these changes. So I call this not an "existential crisis", but a world-perezhivanie. China may well return to almost-normal but that is unlikely in the neo-liberal world. It is impossible to predict what the outcome will be, but it will be a self-transformation of the world activity. Andy ________________________________ Andy Blunden Hegel for Social Movements Home Page On 8/04/2020 8:34 am, John Cripps Clark wrote: Dear Helena and David Here in Australia we have (after a shaky start with returning travellers not taking self-isolation seriously and not quarantining cruise ship passengers) we seem to be following South Korea in containing the virus. The outcry over cruise ships has been revealing. There is a police investigation into one of them (it did lead to over 600 new cases and a few deaths). The hysteria recalls Australia?s experience in the nineteenth century of epidemics and isolating ourselves from plague ships. As always it is the poor and disadvantaged that are suffering. We have tried to isolate the most vulnerable such as remote aboriginal communities and it remains to see whether we will provide the resources necessary for these communities. Past experience is not encouraging since these communities would not be in the present state if we were serious about combatting disadvantage and poverty. On a more parochial level, with extended shutdown and the universities under financial stress (partly this is our own fault by becoming dependent on overseas student fees to supplement the steady erosion of government funding) we also need to support families with children who are cooped up together trying to juggle work, with childcare, with online education over the next two to ten months. I think there are three ways in which we as, a relatively privileged, community of scholars can contribute: 1. Supporting our colleagues ? we have unprecedently powerful communication technologies at our disposal ? use them for good rather than evil. This is especially important in Africa and South America where the tidal wave (and I use this term advisedly recalling the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami) is about to hit. 2. Considering the influence of culture (it is in our title) on the worldwide response to Covid-19. David has already flagged the work unit as a unit of social organisation in China. 3. We need to prepare for the post-Covid-19 bounceback once we have a vaccine. The existential crisis (and again I use the word with trepidation after the disastrous record of a former Prime Minister?s use of the adjective) we have is climate change and we can use the present crisis to delay or accelerate action. I have heard a frequent cry of ?It will be different from now on? and history tells us that this is will not be true unless we make it so. There are powerful conservative forces (in Australia, U.S.A., Brazil etc.) who will try and use this crisis to increase the mining and use of hydrocarbons. As Martin said we are living in the Anthropocene and our success in rapidly reducing the production and sequestering atmospheric carbon dioxide that will determine our future far more than our confused response to Covid-19 (and future communicable diseases). John From: on behalf of David Kellogg Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Date: Wednesday, 8 April 2020 at 7:09 am To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Helena-- Situation in China, courtesy my sister-in-law: life in Beijing is pretty much back to normal at least on the face of it. People are going out to their work units (but there is more work from home than before the crisis). Classes still largely taught from ZOOM. My nephew is in Shanghai, where the situation is somewhat tighter (proximity to Wuhan). Wuhan opened up for real yesterday--people can leave (I lived there for two years in the mid-eighties, but I can barely recognize what I see on the news now....) I have students in Chengdu (who attend my class via ZOOM). People are mostly shopping on line with delivery to the gate of the housing unit rather than to their flat (as we do here in Korea). Air quality better than it's been in decades. Situation here in South Korea: We just extended our lockdown for another two weeks. This is in response to a few days of new infections over a hundred, but the infections are mostly (80%) Koreans from the US and Europe who want to live in a place where the medical system has not broken down or is not in the process of breaking down. There are still some "hotspots" of community transmission, but these are almost all connected with churches or PC cafes. Schools reopen on the 16th, but only online. We have elections in a week, and there is a lot of campaigning going on, including the usual street based campaigning (the right wing opposition campaigns around the curious notion that the government has done absolutely nothing, and the government ignores everybody who is not an actual virus). People shop in stores, and there is no panic buying or disruption of supply chains. The main changes in economic life seem to have to do with transport, and it seems like this too will be permanent (electric scooters are everywhere now). Bowing instead of shaking hands is really not a bad idea, and coffee-shops always were over-rated and over-priced.... But what about you, Helena? (One of the things I have learned on this list is that you get more or less what you give--people tend to use what you write as a model for writing back!) Are you still in Vietnam? Your address says Berkeley and your email says Illinois--those are three very different venues for the virus and the economy. Can you give us a brief account of the situation in each? Stay safe, wherever you are! David Kellogg Sangmyung University Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational action research in Mind Culture and Activity https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 Some free e-prints available at: https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 4:30 AM Martin Packer > wrote: Hi Helena, I share your concerns. And, despite its challenges, this situation seems a great opportunity to apply our distributed expertise(s). I tried to get some discussion going in a group concerned with the Anthropocene, but people seemed disinclined. Martin Here?s the first message that I sent? The current situation is producing important evidence about the probable consequences of the strategies proposed to mitigate climate change. Satellites are showing significant reductions in pollution: https://www.space.com/italy-coronavirus-outbreak-response-reduces-emissions-satellite-images.html Experts are suggesting that as a result the coronavirus may save more lives than it takes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2020/03/11/coronavirus-lockdown-may-save-more-lives-from-pollution-and-climate-than-from-virus/#4a39bb3c5764 So when skeptics ask ?How can you know that reducing air travel will help with climate change?? there is now clear evidence with which to answer them. Also in China: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/04/811019032/why-chinas-air-has-been-cleaner-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak At the same time, I am starting to wonder whether the current health guidelines regarding coronvirus are culturally biased. Can they work in ?collectivist? cultures (to use the shorthand)? The CDC guidelines, for example, include the recommendations to ?Stay home when you are sick,? but also that other members of the household should ?Avoid close contact with people who are sick? and should ?Choose a room in your home that can be used to separate sick household members from those who are healthy. Identify a separate bathroom for the sick person to use, if possible.? This advice is simply not practicable for many households in Colombia. There are not enough rooms; there is no second bathroom. In addition, many infants and young children here are cared for by grandparents, or even great-grandparents (many women here have a baby when young, so an infant may have a grandmother who is in her late 30s and a great-grandmother in her late 50s). The evidence shows that children don?t become very ill, but they do get infected and they can infect other people, among whom elderly caregivers will be the most at risk. So I don?t think social distance and auto-quarantine will work in Colombia. Consider what the Chinese did: they went door-to-door to identify infected family members and removed them to massive collective quarantine setttings. People in the West considered this to be draconian, even cruel. But it made sense: much more cross-infection occurred in Chinese homes than in places like restaurants. Unless the authorities can come up with strategies that are more appropriate to local circumstances and practices, there is likely to be a rapid and elevated peak of infections in Latin American countries. And I see there is a related point here, on ageism: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200313155256.htm On Apr 7, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Helena Worthen > wrote: Hello, XMCA-ers - I don?t remember ever having read that this list was going to shut down or even be allowed to fade away. So now I?m writing, as if in the dark, to the whole list. We?ve now got a major ? maybe ?the? major crisis of the anthropocene on our hands and the distant but connected network represented by the conversations on this list seem to me to be a treasure more precious than gold - and I?m not speaking metaphorically. I am concerned about some of the people who have been pillars and resources on his list, people whom I have reached out to over the years and heard back from with information and perspectives that I would never have been able to access on my own. Where are you now? What are you doing? Are you safe and healthy? Do you have information about friends who are unable to read or respond to this request? I hope to hear some responses to this message. Take care of yourselves, please ? Helena Helena Worthen hworthen@illinois.edu 21 San Mateo Road, Berkeley, CA 94707 Important Notice: The contents of this email are intended solely for the named addressee and are confidential; any unauthorised use, reproduction or storage of the contents is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please delete it and any attachments immediately and advise the sender by return email or telephone. Deakin University does not warrant that this email and any attachments are error or virus free. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200408/4a93397b/attachment.html From carolmacdon@gmail.com Wed Apr 8 03:04:35 2020 From: carolmacdon@gmail.com (Carol Macdonald) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 12:04:35 +0200 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> <7F0038F1-BB8F-4588-ACAC-931CD8F1981B@deakin.edu.au> Message-ID: Hi Mary We do have one factor that may be helping us. Sorry I don't have the url for this. Apparently countries where there is a widespread or universal requirement for BCG vaccine seem to experience a lower level of infection. South africa has a policy of BCG vaccination -- it's used for resistance to TB, which of course in South Africa is a problem. This helps people who contract HIV in resisting TB infection, but now it seems to work the same in resisting COVID-19. The mechanism is not yet clear. Otherwise I support your analysis, but want to emphasise that social distancing is only possible for the upper working class and middle class. It's not possible in slums and informal settlements. We await information from our President Cyril Ramaphosa as to whether the lockdown is going to be extended from 16th April. while the measures have been amongst the most severe in the world, they were put in place "early" and so may pay dividends. Carol Macdonald ---------------------------- Carol A Macdonald Ph.D (Edin) 082 562 1050 Editlab.Net The Matthew Project: Reading to Learn On Wed, 8 Apr 2020 at 09:40, Mary van der Riet wrote: > Hi everyone > Here is South Africa we are in lockdown until 16 April. This means only > trips to grocery shops, doctors and pharmacies. Unfortunately no walking or > exercise outside one's property. This seems to have slowed the infection > rate 1749 cases and 13 deaths (58 million population). Cases were initially > related to international travel, but are now also internal (health care > workers, the elderly, church goers. whether the lock down is extended is > under review > > Hotly contested issues are > > - a restriction on the number of people allowed to travel in mini-bus > taxis - people need to travel to get to essential service jobs, and to shop > (apartheid planning still means that people are far from city centres) > - whether a ban on cigarette and alcohol sales is constitutional; a > ban on buying anything non essential (the topic today is whether baby > clothes giving change in season are now an essential item) > - the banning of religious events (we are coming up to Easter), and > ceremonies around funerals are restricted in size. Hotspots of infection > have been related to church gatherings. > - an increase in domestic and gender based violence incidence > (although an decline in overall crime figures) > - a concern that being restricted to one's 'home' is very challenging > for those living in informal settlements (shacks) and living with many > people in one space. > - a massive impact on small businesses and the informal economy (which > involves most of the SA population - street hawkers, small 'spaza' shops > (the government is trying to address this through tax breaks, a fund that > people can apply to, and possibly increasing the social grant allocations > - pensioners, child care grant etc) > - a loss of jobs as businesses retrench under lockdown > - conspiracy theories about how it is spread (at least two arrests of > people circulating fake information - such as the nasal swab testing with > an earbud is infecting people with the virus - a video made by a white > male). There seems to be an anti-government stance developing in SA; > including fake news that 5G spreads Corona (a white male pastor saying > this); scams and hacking of social media are also occuring. Government is > making Whatsapp admin liable for the spread of fake news in SA > - an increase in human rights violations by the defence force and > police ,and private security companies (abuse of people who have flouted > the lock down regulations). In the media I have seen of these instances it > feels as if this is unchecked. Government response has been 'people must > obey the rules and report incidences of abuse'. There are echoes of armies > in the townships in the 70'and 80's and rather disturbing images. I fear a > return to a police state (surveillance is happening through cell phones, we > are asked to report on neighbours whom we suspect have the virus, we are > jailed if we escape lockdown or resist testing) > - the policing, surveillance and criminalisation of the homeless (who > have been moved to temporary shelters) > - a real concern about the continuation of schooling and university > education. Most South Africans do not have internet access - online and > home schooling will be a problem both because of lack of resources, but > also because of lack of space to study, lack of skills amongst parents to > help; teachers and lecturers are being asked to train themselves, use > resources etc, but they are also amongst the under-resourced > - most South Africans not having adequate access to proper sanitation > (water especially), this constraints health care practices related to > preventing the prevention such as handwashing. > - most South Africans also cant afford masks or hand sanitisers > - lack of protective clothing for health care workers (there have been > protests about this, and the government does seem to be responding > > (Im sure other SAfricans on the list could correct me and add to this) > > It feels as if this is the relative calm before the storm. We dont know > what is going to happen. It is making people very anxious. > We have a huge population of people who are HIV positive. Many but not all > are using ARV treatment and this might help. Many South Africans also have > TB, and not all are on treatment. These conditions compromise the immune > system and might make the spread faster (once it gets into the general > population). On the other hand some of these health issues have allowed a > mechanism for increasing testing - there is now a roll out of testing using > TB health systems and community mobile services. These are being directly > at hotspots > > On the more positive side, this situation seems to have united political > parties and shown President Cyril Ramaphosa's leadership skills . > And there is a proliferation of online cultural activity (see the Centre > for the less good idea - livestreaming premiers - really good SA theatre) > which I can now attend as I am 'at home' > > Personally I am trying to manage the multiple tasks which come from > working from home, solo parenting, doing child care and house care, whilst > also managing my own existential anxiety. The pressure to 'be productive' > and 'use the time' and 'take a break' are competing and contradictory, let > alone take on online teaching, train oneself up etc. I think there is an > extreme burden on women to hold the family fort, produce meals, entertain > children, keep the peace, and of course, work (like Newton - publish more, > focus more). And there is 'online fatigue', a wonderful expression that a > friend used. > > However, I'm also trying to explore ways to engage in research online - > constrained here in SA, and for qualitative research it feels 'wrong' as it > might only access the more wealthy, resourced parts of our population. > > I really appreciate the global community at this time. For example the > ISCHP listserve had a wonderful question about how to do community and > participatory research in this time and there were a flood of responses. I > also participated in a Zoom sessions of the European Community Psychology > Association and learnt a lot from many of the Italians in the group. > > But, we are ok. I keep telling myself it will be ok. I hope > > best wishes > > Mary > > > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Andy Blunden > *Sent:* Wednesday, 08 April 2020 02:25 > *To:* xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? > > > Thanks for summing up the situation here in Oz, John. I think you are > more connected than me. But it remains the case that we have had 50 deaths > from COVID-19 in a country of 25 million, overwhelmingly from virus > acquired overseas or directly traceable to overseas cases. > > This outcome corresponds to a transformation of the political landscape is > which unbelievable, but everything depends on how we respond to these > changes. So I call this not an "existential crisis", but a world- > *perezhivanie*. China may well return to almost-normal but that is > unlikely in the neo-liberal world. It is impossible to predict what the > outcome will be, but it will be a self-transformation of the world activity. > > Andy > ------------------------------ > *Andy Blunden* > Hegel for Social Movements > > Home Page > > On 8/04/2020 8:34 am, John Cripps Clark wrote: > > Dear Helena and David > > > > Here in Australia we have (after a shaky start with returning travellers not > taking self-isolation seriously > > and not quarantining cruise ship passengers) we seem to be following South > Korea in containing the virus. The outcry over cruise ships has been > revealing. There is a police investigation > > into one of them (it did lead to over 600 new cases and a few deaths). The > hysteria recalls Australia?s experience in the nineteenth century of > epidemics > > and isolating ourselves from plague ships > . > > > > > As always it is the poor and disadvantaged that are suffering. We have > tried to isolate the most vulnerable such as remote aboriginal > communities > > and it remains to see whether we will provide the resources necessary for > these communities. Past experience is not encouraging since these > communities would not be in the present state if we were serious about > combatting disadvantage and poverty > > . > > > > On a more parochial level, with extended shutdown and the universities > under financial stress (partly this is our own fault by becoming dependent > on overseas student fees > > to supplement the steady erosion of government funding) we also need to > support families with children who are cooped up together trying to juggle > work, with childcare, with online education over the next two to ten > months. > > > > I think there are three ways in which we as, a relatively privileged, > community of scholars can contribute: > > > > 1. Supporting our colleagues ? we have unprecedently powerful > communication technologies at our disposal ? use them for good rather than > evil. This is especially important in Africa and South America where the > tidal wave (and I use this term advisedly recalling the 2004 Indian > Ocean tsunami > ) > is about to hit. > 2. Considering the influence of culture (it is in our title) on the > worldwide response to Covid-19. David has already flagged the work unit as > a unit of social organisation in China. > 3. We need to prepare for the post-Covid-19 bounceback once we have a > vaccine. The existential crisis (and again I use the word with trepidation > after the disastrous record of a former Prime Minister?s use of the > adjective > ) > we have is climate change and we can use the present crisis to delay or > accelerate action. I have heard a frequent cry of ?It will be different > from now on? and history tells us that this is will not be true unless we > make it so. There are powerful conservative forces (in Australia, U.S.A., > Brazil etc.) who will try and use this crisis to increase the mining and > use of hydrocarbons. As Martin said we are living in the Anthropocene and > our success in rapidly reducing the production and sequestering atmospheric > carbon dioxide that will determine our future far more than our confused > response to Covid-19 (and future communicable diseases). > > John > > > > *From: * > on behalf of David Kellogg > > *Reply-To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > > *Date: *Wednesday, 8 April 2020 at 7:09 am > *To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > > *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? > > > > Helena-- > > > > Situation in China, courtesy my sister-in-law: life in Beijing is pretty > much back to normal at least on the face of it. People are going out to > their work units (but there is more work from home than before the > crisis). Classes still largely taught from ZOOM. My nephew is in > Shanghai, where the situation is somewhat tighter (proximity to > Wuhan). Wuhan opened up for real yesterday--people can leave (I lived there > for two years in the mid-eighties, but I can barely recognize what I see on > the news now....) I have students in Chengdu (who attend my class via > ZOOM). People are mostly shopping on line with delivery to the gate of the > housing unit rather than to their flat (as we do here in Korea). Air > quality better than it's been in decades. > > > > Situation here in South Korea: We just extended our lockdown for another > two weeks. This is in response to a few days of new infections over a > hundred, but the infections are mostly (80%) Koreans from the US and Europe > who want to live in a place where the medical system has not broken down or > is not in the process of breaking down. There are still some "hotspots" of > community transmission, but these are almost all connected with churches or > PC cafes. Schools reopen on the 16th, but only online. We have elections in > a week, and there is a lot of campaigning going on, including the usual > street based campaigning (the right wing opposition campaigns around the > curious notion that the government has done absolutely nothing, and the > government ignores everybody who is not an actual virus). People shop in > stores, and there is no panic buying or disruption of supply chains. The > main changes in economic life seem to have to do with transport, and it > seems like this too will be permanent (electric scooters are everywhere > now). Bowing instead of shaking hands is really not a bad idea, and > coffee-shops always were over-rated and over-priced.... > > > > But what about you, Helena? (One of the things I have learned on this list > is that you get more or less what you give--people tend to use what you > write as a model for writing back!) Are you still in Vietnam? Your address > says Berkeley and your email says Illinois--those are three very different > venues for the virus and the economy. Can you give us a brief account of > the situation in each? > > > > Stay safe, wherever you are! > > > David Kellogg > > Sangmyung University > > > > Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of *Critical > Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational > action research * > > in *Mind Culture and Activity* > > > > *https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 > * > > > > Some free e-prints available at: > > > > > https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 > > > > > New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works > Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" > > > > https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 4:30 AM Martin Packer wrote: > > Hi Helena, > > > > I share your concerns. And, despite its challenges, this situation seems a > great opportunity to apply our distributed expertise(s). I tried to get > some discussion going in a group concerned with the Anthropocene, but > people seemed disinclined. > > > > Martin > > > > Here?s the first message that I sent? > > > > The current situation is producing important evidence about the probable > consequences of the strategies proposed to mitigate climate change. > Satellites are showing significant reductions in pollution: > > > https://www.space.com/italy-coronavirus-outbreak-response-reduces-emissions-satellite-images.html > > > Experts are suggesting that as a result the coronavirus may save more > lives than it takes: > > > https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2020/03/11/coronavirus-lockdown-may-save-more-lives-from-pollution-and-climate-than-from-virus/#4a39bb3c5764 > > > So when skeptics ask ?How can you know that reducing air travel will help > with climate change?? there is now clear evidence with which to answer them. > > > > Also in China: > > > https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/04/811019032/why-chinas-air-has-been-cleaner-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak > > > > > At the same time, I am starting to wonder whether the current health > guidelines regarding coronvirus are culturally biased. Can they work in > ?collectivist? cultures (to use the shorthand)? The CDC guidelines, for > example, include the recommendations to ?Stay home when you are sick,? but > also that other members of the household should ?Avoid close contact with > people who are sick? and should ?Choose a room in your home that can be > used to separate sick household members from those who are healthy. > Identify a separate bathroom for the sick person to use, if possible.? > > This advice is simply not practicable for many households in Colombia. > There are not enough rooms; there is no second bathroom. In addition, many > infants and young children here are cared for by grandparents, or even > great-grandparents (many women here have a baby when young, so an infant > may have a grandmother who is in her late 30s and a great-grandmother in > her late 50s). The evidence shows that children don?t become very ill, but > they do get infected and they can infect other people, among whom elderly > caregivers will be the most at risk. > > So I don?t think social distance and auto-quarantine will work in > Colombia. Consider what the Chinese did: they went door-to-door to identify > infected family members and removed them to massive collective quarantine > setttings. People in the West considered this to be draconian, even cruel. > But it made sense: much more cross-infection occurred in Chinese homes than > in places like restaurants. > > Unless the authorities can come up with strategies that are more > appropriate to local circumstances and practices, there is likely to be a > rapid and elevated peak of infections in Latin American countries. > > > > And I see there is a related point here, on ageism: > > https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200313155256.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 7, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Helena Worthen > wrote: > > > > Hello, XMCA-ers - > > > > I don?t remember ever having read that this list was going to shut down or > even be allowed to fade away. So now I?m writing, as if in the dark, to the > whole list. We?ve now got a major ? maybe ?the? major crisis of the > anthropocene on our hands and the distant but connected network represented > by the conversations on this list seem to me to be a treasure more precious > than gold - and I?m not speaking metaphorically. > > > > I am concerned about some of the people who have been pillars and > resources on his list, people whom I have reached out to over the years and > heard back from with information and perspectives that I would never have > been able to access on my own. Where are you now? What are you doing? Are > you safe and healthy? Do you have information about friends who are unable > to read or respond to this request? > > > > I hope to hear some responses to this message. > > > > Take care of yourselves, please ? > > > > Helena > > > > > > Helena Worthen > > hworthen@illinois.edu > > 21 San Mateo Road, Berkeley, CA 94707 > > > > > > > > > > > > * Important Notice: The contents of this email are intended solely for the > named addressee and are confidential; any unauthorised use, reproduction or > storage of the contents is expressly prohibited. If you have received this > email in error, please delete it and any attachments immediately and advise > the sender by return email or telephone. Deakin University does not warrant > that this email and any attachments are error or virus free.* > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200408/2fadb7e3/attachment.html From wagner.schmit@gmail.com Wed Apr 8 04:34:35 2020 From: wagner.schmit@gmail.com (Wagner Luiz Schmit) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 08:34:35 -0300 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> <7F0038F1-BB8F-4588-ACAC-931CD8F1981B@deakin.edu.au> Message-ID: Here in Brazil things are... crazy... There is a "war" between the Health Minister and the President, who does not think COD-19 is serious and want people back to work. So, some people stay home, some don't, and the number of cases and deaths is skyrocketing. The good thing is that, despite decades of neoliberal reforms, we still have some Universal Health Care system and some measures are being taken to help the poorest with some cash. Next two weeks seem to be critical, so lets see. I am safe working from home, recording classes and texting students. Wagner Luiz Schmit Ishibashi UNESP - BR On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 7:07 AM Carol Macdonald wrote: > Hi Mary > > We do have one factor that may be helping us. Sorry I don't have the url > for this. > > Apparently countries where there is a widespread or universal requirement > for BCG vaccine seem to experience a lower level of infection. > > South africa has a policy of BCG vaccination -- it's used for > resistance to TB, which of course in South Africa is a problem. This helps > people who contract HIV in resisting TB infection, but now it seems to work > the same in resisting COVID-19. The mechanism is not yet clear. > > Otherwise I support your analysis, but want to emphasise that social > distancing is only possible for the upper working class and middle class. > It's not possible in slums and informal settlements. > > We await information from our President Cyril Ramaphosa as to whether the > lockdown is going to be extended from 16th April. while the measures have > been amongst the most severe in the world, they were put in place "early" > and so may pay dividends. > > Carol Macdonald > > > ---------------------------- > Carol A Macdonald Ph.D (Edin) > 082 562 1050 > Editlab.Net > The Matthew Project: Reading to Learn > > > > > > > On Wed, 8 Apr 2020 at 09:40, Mary van der Riet > wrote: > >> Hi everyone >> Here is South Africa we are in lockdown until 16 April. This means only >> trips to grocery shops, doctors and pharmacies. Unfortunately no walking or >> exercise outside one's property. This seems to have slowed the infection >> rate 1749 cases and 13 deaths (58 million population). Cases were initially >> related to international travel, but are now also internal (health care >> workers, the elderly, church goers. whether the lock down is extended is >> under review >> >> Hotly contested issues are >> >> - a restriction on the number of people allowed to travel in mini-bus >> taxis - people need to travel to get to essential service jobs, and to shop >> (apartheid planning still means that people are far from city centres) >> - whether a ban on cigarette and alcohol sales is constitutional; a >> ban on buying anything non essential (the topic today is whether baby >> clothes giving change in season are now an essential item) >> - the banning of religious events (we are coming up to Easter), and >> ceremonies around funerals are restricted in size. Hotspots of infection >> have been related to church gatherings. >> - an increase in domestic and gender based violence incidence >> (although an decline in overall crime figures) >> - a concern that being restricted to one's 'home' is very challenging >> for those living in informal settlements (shacks) and living with many >> people in one space. >> - a massive impact on small businesses and the informal economy >> (which involves most of the SA population - street hawkers, small 'spaza' >> shops (the government is trying to address this through tax breaks, a fund >> that people can apply to, and possibly increasing the social grant >> allocations - pensioners, child care grant etc) >> - a loss of jobs as businesses retrench under lockdown >> - conspiracy theories about how it is spread (at least two arrests of >> people circulating fake information - such as the nasal swab testing with >> an earbud is infecting people with the virus - a video made by a white >> male). There seems to be an anti-government stance developing in SA; >> including fake news that 5G spreads Corona (a white male pastor saying >> this); scams and hacking of social media are also occuring. Government is >> making Whatsapp admin liable for the spread of fake news in SA >> - an increase in human rights violations by the defence force and >> police ,and private security companies (abuse of people who have flouted >> the lock down regulations). In the media I have seen of these instances it >> feels as if this is unchecked. Government response has been 'people must >> obey the rules and report incidences of abuse'. There are echoes of armies >> in the townships in the 70'and 80's and rather disturbing images. I fear a >> return to a police state (surveillance is happening through cell phones, we >> are asked to report on neighbours whom we suspect have the virus, we are >> jailed if we escape lockdown or resist testing) >> - the policing, surveillance and criminalisation of the homeless (who >> have been moved to temporary shelters) >> - a real concern about the continuation of schooling and university >> education. Most South Africans do not have internet access - online and >> home schooling will be a problem both because of lack of resources, but >> also because of lack of space to study, lack of skills amongst parents to >> help; teachers and lecturers are being asked to train themselves, use >> resources etc, but they are also amongst the under-resourced >> - most South Africans not having adequate access to proper sanitation >> (water especially), this constraints health care practices related to >> preventing the prevention such as handwashing. >> - most South Africans also cant afford masks or hand sanitisers >> - lack of protective clothing for health care workers (there have >> been protests about this, and the government does seem to be responding >> >> (Im sure other SAfricans on the list could correct me and add to this) >> >> It feels as if this is the relative calm before the storm. We dont know >> what is going to happen. It is making people very anxious. >> We have a huge population of people who are HIV positive. Many but not >> all are using ARV treatment and this might help. Many South Africans also >> have TB, and not all are on treatment. These conditions compromise the >> immune system and might make the spread faster (once it gets into the >> general population). On the other hand some of these health issues have >> allowed a mechanism for increasing testing - there is now a roll out of >> testing using TB health systems and community mobile services. These are >> being directly at hotspots >> >> On the more positive side, this situation seems to have united political >> parties and shown President Cyril Ramaphosa's leadership skills . >> And there is a proliferation of online cultural activity (see the Centre >> for the less good idea - livestreaming premiers - really good SA theatre) >> which I can now attend as I am 'at home' >> >> Personally I am trying to manage the multiple tasks which come from >> working from home, solo parenting, doing child care and house care, whilst >> also managing my own existential anxiety. The pressure to 'be productive' >> and 'use the time' and 'take a break' are competing and contradictory, let >> alone take on online teaching, train oneself up etc. I think there is an >> extreme burden on women to hold the family fort, produce meals, entertain >> children, keep the peace, and of course, work (like Newton - publish more, >> focus more). And there is 'online fatigue', a wonderful expression that a >> friend used. >> >> However, I'm also trying to explore ways to engage in research online - >> constrained here in SA, and for qualitative research it feels 'wrong' as it >> might only access the more wealthy, resourced parts of our population. >> >> I really appreciate the global community at this time. For example the >> ISCHP listserve had a wonderful question about how to do community and >> participatory research in this time and there were a flood of responses. I >> also participated in a Zoom sessions of the European Community Psychology >> Association and learnt a lot from many of the Italians in the group. >> >> But, we are ok. I keep telling myself it will be ok. I hope >> >> best wishes >> >> Mary >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> on behalf of Andy Blunden >> *Sent:* Wednesday, 08 April 2020 02:25 >> *To:* xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu >> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? >> >> >> Thanks for summing up the situation here in Oz, John. I think you are >> more connected than me. But it remains the case that we have had 50 deaths >> from COVID-19 in a country of 25 million, overwhelmingly from virus >> acquired overseas or directly traceable to overseas cases. >> >> This outcome corresponds to a transformation of the political landscape >> is which unbelievable, but everything depends on how we respond to these >> changes. So I call this not an "existential crisis", but a world- >> *perezhivanie*. China may well return to almost-normal but that is >> unlikely in the neo-liberal world. It is impossible to predict what the >> outcome will be, but it will be a self-transformation of the world activity. >> >> Andy >> ------------------------------ >> *Andy Blunden* >> Hegel for Social Movements >> >> Home Page >> >> On 8/04/2020 8:34 am, John Cripps Clark wrote: >> >> Dear Helena and David >> >> >> >> Here in Australia we have (after a shaky start with returning travellers not >> taking self-isolation seriously >> >> and not quarantining cruise ship passengers) we seem to be following South >> Korea in containing the virus. The outcry over cruise ships has been >> revealing. There is a police investigation >> >> into one of them (it did lead to over 600 new cases and a few deaths). The >> hysteria recalls Australia?s experience in the nineteenth century of >> epidemics >> >> and isolating ourselves from plague ships >> . >> >> >> >> >> As always it is the poor and disadvantaged that are suffering. We have >> tried to isolate the most vulnerable such as remote aboriginal >> communities >> >> and it remains to see whether we will provide the resources necessary for >> these communities. Past experience is not encouraging since these >> communities would not be in the present state if we were serious about >> combatting disadvantage and poverty >> >> . >> >> >> >> On a more parochial level, with extended shutdown and the universities >> under financial stress (partly this is our own fault by becoming dependent >> on overseas student fees >> >> to supplement the steady erosion of government funding) we also need to >> support families with children who are cooped up together trying to juggle >> work, with childcare, with online education over the next two to ten >> months. >> >> >> >> I think there are three ways in which we as, a relatively privileged, >> community of scholars can contribute: >> >> >> >> 1. Supporting our colleagues ? we have unprecedently powerful >> communication technologies at our disposal ? use them for good rather than >> evil. This is especially important in Africa and South America where the >> tidal wave (and I use this term advisedly recalling the 2004 Indian >> Ocean tsunami >> ) >> is about to hit. >> 2. Considering the influence of culture (it is in our title) on the >> worldwide response to Covid-19. David has already flagged the work unit as >> a unit of social organisation in China. >> 3. We need to prepare for the post-Covid-19 bounceback once we have a >> vaccine. The existential crisis (and again I use the word with trepidation >> after the disastrous record of a former Prime Minister?s use of the >> adjective >> ) >> we have is climate change and we can use the present crisis to delay or >> accelerate action. I have heard a frequent cry of ?It will be different >> from now on? and history tells us that this is will not be true unless we >> make it so. There are powerful conservative forces (in Australia, U.S.A., >> Brazil etc.) who will try and use this crisis to increase the mining and >> use of hydrocarbons. As Martin said we are living in the Anthropocene and >> our success in rapidly reducing the production and sequestering atmospheric >> carbon dioxide that will determine our future far more than our confused >> response to Covid-19 (and future communicable diseases). >> >> John >> >> >> >> *From: * >> on behalf of David Kellogg >> >> *Reply-To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" >> >> *Date: *Wednesday, 8 April 2020 at 7:09 am >> *To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" >> >> *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? >> >> >> >> Helena-- >> >> >> >> Situation in China, courtesy my sister-in-law: life in Beijing is pretty >> much back to normal at least on the face of it. People are going out to >> their work units (but there is more work from home than before the >> crisis). Classes still largely taught from ZOOM. My nephew is in >> Shanghai, where the situation is somewhat tighter (proximity to >> Wuhan). Wuhan opened up for real yesterday--people can leave (I lived there >> for two years in the mid-eighties, but I can barely recognize what I see on >> the news now....) I have students in Chengdu (who attend my class via >> ZOOM). People are mostly shopping on line with delivery to the gate of the >> housing unit rather than to their flat (as we do here in Korea). Air >> quality better than it's been in decades. >> >> >> >> Situation here in South Korea: We just extended our lockdown for another >> two weeks. This is in response to a few days of new infections over a >> hundred, but the infections are mostly (80%) Koreans from the US and Europe >> who want to live in a place where the medical system has not broken down or >> is not in the process of breaking down. There are still some "hotspots" of >> community transmission, but these are almost all connected with churches or >> PC cafes. Schools reopen on the 16th, but only online. We have elections in >> a week, and there is a lot of campaigning going on, including the usual >> street based campaigning (the right wing opposition campaigns around the >> curious notion that the government has done absolutely nothing, and the >> government ignores everybody who is not an actual virus). People shop in >> stores, and there is no panic buying or disruption of supply chains. The >> main changes in economic life seem to have to do with transport, and it >> seems like this too will be permanent (electric scooters are everywhere >> now). Bowing instead of shaking hands is really not a bad idea, and >> coffee-shops always were over-rated and over-priced.... >> >> >> >> But what about you, Helena? (One of the things I have learned on this >> list is that you get more or less what you give--people tend to use what >> you write as a model for writing back!) Are you still in Vietnam? Your >> address says Berkeley and your email says Illinois--those are three very >> different venues for the virus and the economy. Can you give us a brief >> account of the situation in each? >> >> >> >> Stay safe, wherever you are! >> >> >> David Kellogg >> >> Sangmyung University >> >> >> >> Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of *Critical >> Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational >> action research * >> >> in *Mind Culture and Activity* >> >> >> >> *https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 >> * >> >> >> >> Some free e-prints available at: >> >> >> >> >> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 >> >> >> >> >> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works >> Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" >> >> >> >> https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 4:30 AM Martin Packer wrote: >> >> Hi Helena, >> >> >> >> I share your concerns. And, despite its challenges, this situation seems >> a great opportunity to apply our distributed expertise(s). I tried to get >> some discussion going in a group concerned with the Anthropocene, but >> people seemed disinclined. >> >> >> >> Martin >> >> >> >> Here?s the first message that I sent? >> >> >> >> The current situation is producing important evidence about the probable >> consequences of the strategies proposed to mitigate climate change. >> Satellites are showing significant reductions in pollution: >> >> >> https://www.space.com/italy-coronavirus-outbreak-response-reduces-emissions-satellite-images.html >> >> >> Experts are suggesting that as a result the coronavirus may save more >> lives than it takes: >> >> >> https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2020/03/11/coronavirus-lockdown-may-save-more-lives-from-pollution-and-climate-than-from-virus/#4a39bb3c5764 >> >> >> So when skeptics ask ?How can you know that reducing air travel will help >> with climate change?? there is now clear evidence with which to answer them. >> >> >> >> Also in China: >> >> >> https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/04/811019032/why-chinas-air-has-been-cleaner-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak >> >> >> >> >> At the same time, I am starting to wonder whether the current health >> guidelines regarding coronvirus are culturally biased. Can they work in >> ?collectivist? cultures (to use the shorthand)? The CDC guidelines, for >> example, include the recommendations to ?Stay home when you are sick,? but >> also that other members of the household should ?Avoid close contact with >> people who are sick? and should ?Choose a room in your home that can be >> used to separate sick household members from those who are healthy. >> Identify a separate bathroom for the sick person to use, if possible.? >> >> This advice is simply not practicable for many households in Colombia. >> There are not enough rooms; there is no second bathroom. In addition, many >> infants and young children here are cared for by grandparents, or even >> great-grandparents (many women here have a baby when young, so an infant >> may have a grandmother who is in her late 30s and a great-grandmother in >> her late 50s). The evidence shows that children don?t become very ill, but >> they do get infected and they can infect other people, among whom elderly >> caregivers will be the most at risk. >> >> So I don?t think social distance and auto-quarantine will work in >> Colombia. Consider what the Chinese did: they went door-to-door to identify >> infected family members and removed them to massive collective quarantine >> setttings. People in the West considered this to be draconian, even cruel. >> But it made sense: much more cross-infection occurred in Chinese homes than >> in places like restaurants. >> >> Unless the authorities can come up with strategies that are more >> appropriate to local circumstances and practices, there is likely to be a >> rapid and elevated peak of infections in Latin American countries. >> >> >> >> And I see there is a related point here, on ageism: >> >> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200313155256.htm >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Apr 7, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Helena Worthen >> wrote: >> >> >> >> Hello, XMCA-ers - >> >> >> >> I don?t remember ever having read that this list was going to shut down >> or even be allowed to fade away. So now I?m writing, as if in the dark, to >> the whole list. We?ve now got a major ? maybe ?the? major crisis of the >> anthropocene on our hands and the distant but connected network represented >> by the conversations on this list seem to me to be a treasure more precious >> than gold - and I?m not speaking metaphorically. >> >> >> >> I am concerned about some of the people who have been pillars and >> resources on his list, people whom I have reached out to over the years and >> heard back from with information and perspectives that I would never have >> been able to access on my own. Where are you now? What are you doing? Are >> you safe and healthy? Do you have information about friends who are unable >> to read or respond to this request? >> >> >> >> I hope to hear some responses to this message. >> >> >> >> Take care of yourselves, please ? >> >> >> >> Helena >> >> >> >> >> >> Helena Worthen >> >> hworthen@illinois.edu >> >> 21 San Mateo Road, Berkeley, CA 94707 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> * Important Notice: The contents of this email are intended solely for >> the named addressee and are confidential; any unauthorised use, >> reproduction or storage of the contents is expressly prohibited. If you >> have received this email in error, please delete it and any attachments >> immediately and advise the sender by return email or telephone. Deakin >> University does not warrant that this email and any attachments are error >> or virus free.* >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200408/6d9a6342/attachment.html From robsub@ariadne.org.uk Wed Apr 8 05:15:26 2020 From: robsub@ariadne.org.uk (robsub@ariadne.org.uk) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 13:15:26 +0100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> <7F0038F1-BB8F-4588-ACAC-931CD8F1981B@deakin.edu.au> Message-ID: <6c2568c5-f4b1-1eae-d525-ad3acdd3055c@ariadne.org.uk> I am self isolating in a cabin. Picture attached. I have a cold. 99% certain it is not covid. Isolating because my family includes one member with no immune system. Acutely aware of my privilege here in the UK. This cabin is my temporary home at the back of our property. Billions of people spend their entire lives in less. In addition I have clean running water. And wifi. I celebrated my birthday in isolation, hence the cards on the windowsill. I have been able, from behind a closed door, to help set up my village's response to the crisis, which has been magnificent. We are very good in a crisis. But there will be enormous pressure, when the crisis has passed, to go back to the way things were - the pressure coming of course from those who benefit from the lethlly unfair way the world was run until a few weeks ago. At a wider level, we are headed in the UK by a man who is brilliant at obtaining power and terrible at exercising it, who is now in hospital, most likely because of his own deliberate insouciance. He has left a power vacuum, not because he wielded a lot of power hiself, but because he is incapable of forming a functional collective. Our planning for such an event has been vitiated by forty years of ruination of a once formidable civil service, and by twenty years of systematic underfunding and privatisation of the health service. And the knock on effects are widespread. Some new cancer patients are being told they will not be treated because of the effect of the pandemic. One report suggests that London has run out of dialysis machines - we are still coming to terms with the reality that covid19 does not just attack the lungs but can result in multi organ failure. And yet I have to remember the many parts of the world where there is no cancer treatment and there are no dialysis machines to start with. My master plan to spend my retirement becoming more familiar with Vygotsky, and perhaps contributing to the literature, is still stuck at step 1. I did manage to read recently Peter Smagorinsky's article on deconflating the ZPD and instructional scaffolding, which resonated a great deal with my thinking. Thank you, Peter. But my plan to write an activity theory based article on teaching and learning how to operate a dialysis machine remains on its three year hold. Now I return to a thread in which a request for a translation of a decidedly lewd Albanian phrase has turned into a detailed and culturally sensitive discussion of the uses of the optative mood. Good health, everyone, and stay distant. Rob On 08/04/2020 11:04, Carol Macdonald wrote: > Hi Mary > > We do have one factor that may be helping us. Sorry I don't have the > url for this. > > Apparently countries where there is a widespread or universal > requirement for BCG vaccine seem to experience a lower level of > infection. > > South africa has a policy of BCG vaccination -- it's used for > resistance?to TB, which of course in South Africa is a problem. This > helps people who contract HIV in resisting TB infection, but now it > seems to work the same in resisting COVID-19. The mechanism is not yet > clear. > > Otherwise I support your analysis, but want to emphasise that social > distancing is only possible for the upper working class and middle > class. It's not possible in slums and informal settlements. > > We await information from our President Cyril Ramaphosa as to whether > the lockdown is going to be extended from 16th April. while the > measures have been amongst the most severe in the world, they were put > in place "early" and so may pay dividends. > > Carol Macdonald > > > ---------------------------- > Carol A Macdonald Ph.D (Edin) > 082 562 1050 > Editlab.Net > The Matthew Project: Reading to Learn > > > > > > On Wed, 8 Apr 2020 at 09:40, Mary van der Riet > wrote: > > Hi everyone > Here is South Africa we are in lockdown until 16 April. This means > only trips to grocery shops, doctors and pharmacies. Unfortunately > no walking or exercise outside one's property.? This seems to have > slowed the infection rate 1749 cases and 13 deaths (58 million > population). Cases were initially related to international travel, > but are now also internal (health care workers, the elderly, > church goers. whether the lock down is extended is under review > > Hotly contested issues are > > * a restriction on the number of people allowed to travel in > mini-bus taxis - people need to travel to get to essential > service jobs, and to shop (apartheid planning still means that > people are far from city centres) > * whether a ban on cigarette and alcohol sales is > constitutional; a ban on buying anything non essential (the > topic today is whether baby clothes giving change in season > are now an essential item) > * the banning of religious events (we are coming up to Easter), > and ceremonies around funerals are restricted in size. > Hotspots of infection have been related to church gatherings. > * an increase in domestic and gender based violence incidence > (although an decline in overall crime figures) > * a concern that being restricted to one's 'home' is very > challenging for those living in informal settlements (shacks) > and living with many people in one space. > * a massive impact on small businesses and the informal economy > (which involves most of the SA population - street hawkers, > small 'spaza' shops (the government is trying to address this > through tax breaks, a fund that people can apply to, and > possibly increasing the social grant allocations? - > pensioners, child care grant etc) > * a loss of jobs as businesses retrench under lockdown > * conspiracy theories about how it is spread (at least two > arrests of people circulating fake information - such as the > nasal swab testing with an earbud is infecting people with the > virus - a video made by a white male). There seems to be an > anti-government stance developing in SA; including fake news > that 5G spreads Corona (a white male pastor saying this); > scams and hacking of social media are also occuring. > Government is making Whatsapp admin liable for the spread of > fake news in SA > * an increase in human rights violations by the defence force > and police ,and private security companies (abuse of people > who have flouted the lock down regulations). In the media I > have seen of these instances it feels as if this is unchecked. > Government response has been 'people must obey the rules and > report incidences of abuse'. There are echoes of armies in the > townships in the 70'and 80's and rather disturbing images. I > fear a return to a police state (surveillance is happening > through cell phones, we are asked to report on neighbours whom > we suspect have the virus, we are jailed if we escape lockdown > or resist testing) > * the policing, surveillance and criminalisation of the homeless > (who have been moved to temporary shelters) > * a real concern about the continuation of schooling and > university education. Most South Africans do not have internet > access - online and home schooling will be a problem both > because of lack of resources, but also because of lack of > space to study, lack of skills amongst parents to help; > teachers and lecturers are being asked to train themselves, > use resources etc, but they are also amongst the under-resourced > * most South Africans not having adequate access to proper > sanitation (water especially), this constraints health care > practices related to preventing the prevention such as > handwashing. > * most South Africans also cant afford masks or hand sanitisers > * lack of protective clothing for health care workers (there > have been protests about this, and the government does seem > to? be responding > > (Im sure other SAfricans on the list could correct me and add to this) > > It feels as if this is the relative calm before the storm. We dont > know what is going to happen. It is making people very anxious. > We have a huge population of people who are HIV positive. Many but > not all are using ARV treatment and this might help. Many? South > Africans also have TB, and not all are on treatment. These > conditions compromise the immune system and might make the spread > faster (once it gets into the general population). On the other > hand some of these health issues have allowed a mechanism for > increasing testing - there is now a roll out of testing using TB > health systems and community mobile services. These are being > directly at hotspots > > On the more positive side, this situation seems to have united > political parties and shown? President Cyril Ramaphosa's > leadership skills . > And there is a proliferation of online cultural activity (see the > Centre for the less good idea - livestreaming premiers - really > good SA theatre) which I can now attend as I am 'at home' > > Personally I am trying to manage the multiple tasks which come > from working from home, solo parenting, doing child care and house > care, whilst also managing my own existential anxiety. The > pressure to 'be productive' and 'use the time' and 'take a break' > are competing and contradictory, let alone take on online > teaching, train oneself up etc. I think there is an extreme burden > on women to hold the family fort, produce meals, entertain > children, keep the peace, and of course, work (like Newton? - > publish more, focus more). And there is 'online fatigue', a > wonderful expression that a friend used. > > However, I'm also trying to explore ways to engage in research > online - constrained here in SA, and for qualitative research it > feels 'wrong' as it might only access the more wealthy, resourced > parts of our population. > > I really appreciate the global community at this time. For example > the ISCHP listserve had a wonderful question about how to do > community and participatory research in this time and there were a > flood of responses. I also participated in a Zoom sessions of the > European Community Psychology Association and learnt a lot from > many of the Italians in the group. > > But, we are ok. I keep telling myself it will be ok. I hope > > best wishes > > Mary > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > on behalf of Andy > Blunden > > *Sent:* Wednesday, 08 April 2020 02:25 > *To:* xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? > > Thanks for? summing up the situation here in Oz, John. I think you > are more connected than me. But it remains the case that we have > had 50 deaths from COVID-19 in a country of 25 million, > overwhelmingly from virus acquired overseas or directly traceable > to overseas cases. > > This outcome corresponds to a transformation of the political > landscape is which unbelievable, but everything depends on how we > respond to these changes. So I call this not an "existential > crisis", but a world-/perezhivanie/. China may well return to > almost-normal but that is unlikely in the neo-liberal world. It is > impossible to predict what the outcome will be, but it will be a > self-transformation of the world activity. > > Andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *Andy Blunden* > Hegel for Social Movements > > Home Page > > > On 8/04/2020 8:34 am, John Cripps Clark wrote: >> >> Dear Helena and David >> >> Here in Australia we have (after a shaky start with returning >> travellers not taking self-isolation seriously >> >> and not quarantining cruise ship passengers) we seem to be >> following South Korea in containing the virus. The outcry over >> cruise ships has been revealing. There is a police investigation >> >> into one of them (it did lead to over 600 new cases and a few >> deaths). The hysteria recalls Australia?s experience in the >> nineteenth century of epidemics >> >> and isolating ourselves from plague ships >> . >> >> >> As always it is the poor and disadvantaged that are suffering. We >> have tried to isolate the most vulnerable such as remote >> aboriginal ?communities >> >> and it remains to see whether we will provide the resources >> necessary for these communities. Past experience is not >> encouraging since these communities would not be in the present >> state if we were serious about combatting disadvantage and >> poverty >> . >> >> On a more parochial level, with extended shutdown and the >> universities under financial stress (partly this is our own fault >> by becoming dependent on overseas student fees >> >> to supplement the steady erosion of government funding) we also >> need to support families with children who are cooped up together >> trying to juggle work, with childcare, with online education over >> the next two to ten months. >> >> I think there are three ways in which we as, a relatively >> privileged, community of scholars can contribute: >> >> 1. Supporting our colleagues ? we have unprecedently powerful >> communication technologies at our disposal ? use them for >> good rather than evil. This is especially important in Africa >> and South America where the tidal wave (and I use this term >> advisedly recalling the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami >> ) >> is about to hit. >> 2. Considering the influence of culture (it is in our title) on >> the worldwide response to Covid-19. David has already flagged >> the work unit as a unit of social organisation in China. >> 3. We need to prepare for the post-Covid-19 bounceback once we >> have a vaccine. The existential crisis (and again I use the >> word with trepidation after the disastrous record of a former >> Prime Minister?s use of the adjective >> ) >> we have is climate change and we can use the present crisis >> to delay or accelerate action. I have heard a frequent cry of >> ?It will be different from now on? and history tells us that >> this is will not be true unless we make it so. There are >> powerful conservative forces (in Australia, U.S.A., Brazil >> etc.) who will try and use this crisis to increase the mining >> and use of hydrocarbons. As Martin said we are living in the >> Anthropocene and our success in rapidly reducing the >> production and sequestering atmospheric carbon dioxide that >> will determine our future far more than our confused response >> to Covid-19 (and future communicable diseases). >> >> John >> >> *From: * >> on behalf of David >> Kellogg >> *Reply-To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" >> >> *Date: *Wednesday, 8 April 2020 at 7:09 am >> *To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" >> >> *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? >> >> Helena-- >> >> Situation in China, courtesy my sister-in-law: life in Beijing?is >> pretty much?back to normal at least on the face of it. People are >> going out to their work units (but there is more work from home >> than before the crisis).?Classes still largely taught from ZOOM. >> My nephew is in Shanghai,?where the situation is somewhat tighter >> (proximity to Wuhan).?Wuhan opened up for real yesterday--people >> can leave (I lived there for two years in the mid-eighties, but I >> can barely recognize what I see on the news now....) I have >> students in Chengdu (who attend my class via ZOOM). People are >> mostly shopping on line with delivery to the gate of the housing >> unit rather than to their flat (as we do here in Korea). Air >> quality better than it's been in decades. >> >> Situation here in South?Korea: We just extended our lockdown for >> another two weeks. This is in response to a few days of new >> infections over a hundred, but the infections are mostly >> (80%)?Koreans from the US and Europe who want to live in a place >> where the medical system has not broken down or is not in the >> process of breaking down. There are still some "hotspots" of >> community transmission, but these are almost all connected with >> churches or PC cafes. Schools reopen?on the 16th, but only >> online.?We have elections in a week, and there is a lot of >> campaigning going on, including the usual street based >> campaigning (the right wing opposition campaigns around the >> curious notion that the government has done absolutely nothing, >> and the government?ignores everybody who is not an?actual virus). >> People shop in stores, and there is no panic buying or disruption >> of supply chains. The main changes in economic life seem to have >> to do with transport, and it seems like this too will be >> permanent (electric scooters are everywhere now). Bowing instead >> of shaking hands?is really not a bad idea, and >> coffee-shops?always were?over-rated and over-priced.... >> >> But what about you, Helena? (One of the things I have learned on >> this list is that you get more or less what you give--people tend >> to use what you write as a model for writing back!) Are you still >> in Vietnam? Your address says Berkeley and your email says >> Illinois--those are three very different venues for the virus and >> the economy. Can you give us a brief account of the situation in >> each? >> >> Stay safe, wherever you are! >> >> >> David Kellogg >> >> Sangmyung University >> >> Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of >> /Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal >> forms and educational action research / >> >> in /Mind Culture and Activity/ >> >> /https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 >> / >> >> Some free e-prints available at: >> >> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 >> >> >> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's >> Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" >> >> https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 >> >> >> On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 4:30 AM Martin Packer > > wrote: >> >> Hi Helena, >> >> I share your concerns. And, despite its challenges, this >> situation seems a great opportunity to apply our distributed >> expertise(s). I tried to get some discussion going in a group >> concerned with the Anthropocene, but people seemed disinclined. >> >> Martin >> >> Here?s the first message that I sent? >> >> The current situation is producing important evidence about >> the probable consequences of the strategies proposed to >> mitigate climate change. Satellites are showing significant >> reductions in pollution: >> >> https://www.space.com/italy-coronavirus-outbreak-response-reduces-emissions-satellite-images.html >> >> >> Experts are suggesting that as a result the coronavirus may >> save more lives than it takes: >> >> https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2020/03/11/coronavirus-lockdown-may-save-more-lives-from-pollution-and-climate-than-from-virus/#4a39bb3c5764 >> >> >> So when skeptics ask ?How can you know that reducing air >> travel will help with climate change?? there is now clear >> evidence with which to answer them. >> >> Also in China: >> >> https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/04/811019032/why-chinas-air-has-been-cleaner-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak >> >> >> At the same time, I am starting to wonder whether the current >> health guidelines regarding coronvirus are culturally biased. >> Can they work in ?collectivist? cultures (to use the >> shorthand)? The CDC guidelines, for example, include the >> recommendations to ?Stay home when you are sick,? but also >> that other members of the household should ?Avoid close >> contact with people who are sick? and should ?Choose a room >> in your home that can be used to separate sick household >> members from those who are healthy. Identify a separate >> bathroom for the sick person to use, if possible.? >> >> This advice is simply not practicable for many households in >> Colombia. There are not enough rooms; there is no second >> bathroom. In addition, many infants and young children here >> are cared for by grandparents, or even great-grandparents >> (many women here have a baby when young, so an infant may >> have a grandmother who is in her late 30s and a >> great-grandmother in her late 50s). The evidence shows that >> children don?t become very ill, but they do get infected and >> they can infect other people, among whom elderly caregivers >> will be the most at risk. >> >> So I don?t think social distance and auto-quarantine will >> work in Colombia. Consider what the Chinese did: they went >> door-to-door to identify infected family members and removed >> them to massive collective quarantine setttings. People in >> the West considered this to be draconian, even cruel. But it >> made sense: much more cross-infection occurred in Chinese >> homes than in places like restaurants. >> >> Unless the authorities can come up with strategies that are >> more appropriate to local circumstances and practices, there >> is likely to be a rapid and elevated peak of infections in >> Latin American countries. >> >> And I see there is a related point here, on ageism: >> >> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200313155256.htm >> >> >> >> >> On Apr 7, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Helena Worthen >> > > wrote: >> >> Hello, XMCA-ers - >> >> I don?t remember ever having read that this list was >> going to shut down or even be allowed to fade away. So >> now I?m writing, as if in the dark, to the whole list.? >> We?ve now got a major ? maybe ?the? major crisis of the >> anthropocene on our hands and the distant but connected >> network represented by the conversations on this list >> seem to me to be a treasure more precious than gold - and >> I?m not speaking metaphorically. >> >> I am concerned about some of the people who have been >> pillars and resources on his list, people whom I have >> reached out to over the years and heard back from with >> information and perspectives that I would never have been >> able to access on my own. Where are you now? What are you >> doing? Are you safe and healthy? Do you have information >> about friends who are unable to read or respond to this >> request? >> >> I hope to hear some responses to this message. >> >> Take care of yourselves, please ? >> >> Helena >> >> Helena Worthen >> >> hworthen@illinois.edu >> >> 21 San Mateo Road, Berkeley, CA 94707 >> >> /* >> Important Notice:* The contents of this email are intended solely >> for the named addressee and are confidential; any unauthorised >> use, reproduction or storage of the contents is expressly >> prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please >> delete it and any attachments immediately and advise the sender >> by return email or telephone. >> >> Deakin University does not warrant that this email and any >> attachments are error or virus free./ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200408/dc0d8767/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: cabin_interior.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 91700 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200408/dc0d8767/attachment.jpg From jamesma320@gmail.com Wed Apr 8 05:59:11 2020 From: jamesma320@gmail.com (James Ma) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 13:59:11 +0100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: <6c2568c5-f4b1-1eae-d525-ad3acdd3055c@ariadne.org.uk> References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> <7F0038F1-BB8F-4588-ACAC-931CD8F1981B@deakin.edu.au> <6c2568c5-f4b1-1eae-d525-ad3acdd3055c@ariadne.org.uk> Message-ID: Din, just skim read the first one... On Wed, 8 Apr 2020 at 13:18, robsub@ariadne.org.uk wrote: > I am self isolating in a cabin. Picture attached. > > I have a cold. 99% certain it is not covid. Isolating because my family > includes one member with no immune system. > > Acutely aware of my privilege here in the UK. This cabin is my temporary > home at the back of our property. Billions of people spend their entire > lives in less. > > In addition I have clean running water. And wifi. > > I celebrated my birthday in isolation, hence the cards on the windowsill. > > I have been able, from behind a closed door, to help set up my village's > response to the crisis, which has been magnificent. We are very good in a > crisis. But there will be enormous pressure, when the crisis has passed, to > go back to the way things were - the pressure coming of course from those > who benefit from the lethlly unfair way the world was run until a few weeks > ago. > > At a wider level, we are headed in the UK by a man who is brilliant at > obtaining power and terrible at exercising it, who is now in hospital, most > likely because of his own deliberate insouciance. He has left a power > vacuum, not because he wielded a lot of power hiself, but because he is > incapable of forming a functional collective. > > Our planning for such an event has been vitiated by forty years of > ruination of a once formidable civil service, and by twenty years of > systematic underfunding and privatisation of the health service. And the > knock on effects are widespread. Some new cancer patients are being told > they will not be treated because of the effect of the pandemic. One report > suggests that London has run out of dialysis machines - we are still coming > to terms with the reality that covid19 does not just attack the lungs but > can result in multi organ failure. > > And yet I have to remember the many parts of the world where there is no > cancer treatment and there are no dialysis machines to start with. > > My master plan to spend my retirement becoming more familiar with > Vygotsky, and perhaps contributing to the literature, is still stuck at > step 1. I did manage to read recently Peter Smagorinsky's article on > deconflating the ZPD and instructional scaffolding, which resonated a great > deal with my thinking. Thank you, Peter. But my plan to write an activity > theory based article on teaching and learning how to operate a dialysis > machine remains on its three year hold. > > Now I return to a thread in which a request for a translation of a > decidedly lewd Albanian phrase has turned into a detailed and culturally > sensitive discussion of the uses of the optative mood. > > Good health, everyone, and stay distant. > > Rob > > On 08/04/2020 11:04, Carol Macdonald wrote: > > Hi Mary > > We do have one factor that may be helping us. Sorry I don't have the url > for this. > > Apparently countries where there is a widespread or universal requirement > for BCG vaccine seem to experience a lower level of infection. > > South africa has a policy of BCG vaccination -- it's used for > resistance to TB, which of course in South Africa is a problem. This helps > people who contract HIV in resisting TB infection, but now it seems to work > the same in resisting COVID-19. The mechanism is not yet clear. > > Otherwise I support your analysis, but want to emphasise that social > distancing is only possible for the upper working class and middle class. > It's not possible in slums and informal settlements. > > We await information from our President Cyril Ramaphosa as to whether the > lockdown is going to be extended from 16th April. while the measures have > been amongst the most severe in the world, they were put in place "early" > and so may pay dividends. > > Carol Macdonald > > > ---------------------------- > Carol A Macdonald Ph.D (Edin) > 082 562 1050 > Editlab.Net > The Matthew Project: Reading to Learn > > > > > > > On Wed, 8 Apr 2020 at 09:40, Mary van der Riet > wrote: > >> Hi everyone >> Here is South Africa we are in lockdown until 16 April. This means only >> trips to grocery shops, doctors and pharmacies. Unfortunately no walking or >> exercise outside one's property. This seems to have slowed the infection >> rate 1749 cases and 13 deaths (58 million population). Cases were initially >> related to international travel, but are now also internal (health care >> workers, the elderly, church goers. whether the lock down is extended is >> under review >> >> Hotly contested issues are >> >> - a restriction on the number of people allowed to travel in mini-bus >> taxis - people need to travel to get to essential service jobs, and to shop >> (apartheid planning still means that people are far from city centres) >> - whether a ban on cigarette and alcohol sales is constitutional; a >> ban on buying anything non essential (the topic today is whether baby >> clothes giving change in season are now an essential item) >> - the banning of religious events (we are coming up to Easter), and >> ceremonies around funerals are restricted in size. Hotspots of infection >> have been related to church gatherings. >> - an increase in domestic and gender based violence incidence >> (although an decline in overall crime figures) >> - a concern that being restricted to one's 'home' is very challenging >> for those living in informal settlements (shacks) and living with many >> people in one space. >> - a massive impact on small businesses and the informal economy >> (which involves most of the SA population - street hawkers, small 'spaza' >> shops (the government is trying to address this through tax breaks, a fund >> that people can apply to, and possibly increasing the social grant >> allocations - pensioners, child care grant etc) >> - a loss of jobs as businesses retrench under lockdown >> - conspiracy theories about how it is spread (at least two arrests of >> people circulating fake information - such as the nasal swab testing with >> an earbud is infecting people with the virus - a video made by a white >> male). There seems to be an anti-government stance developing in SA; >> including fake news that 5G spreads Corona (a white male pastor saying >> this); scams and hacking of social media are also occuring. Government is >> making Whatsapp admin liable for the spread of fake news in SA >> - an increase in human rights violations by the defence force and >> police ,and private security companies (abuse of people who have flouted >> the lock down regulations). In the media I have seen of these instances it >> feels as if this is unchecked. Government response has been 'people must >> obey the rules and report incidences of abuse'. There are echoes of armies >> in the townships in the 70'and 80's and rather disturbing images. I fear a >> return to a police state (surveillance is happening through cell phones, we >> are asked to report on neighbours whom we suspect have the virus, we are >> jailed if we escape lockdown or resist testing) >> - the policing, surveillance and criminalisation of the homeless (who >> have been moved to temporary shelters) >> - a real concern about the continuation of schooling and university >> education. Most South Africans do not have internet access - online and >> home schooling will be a problem both because of lack of resources, but >> also because of lack of space to study, lack of skills amongst parents to >> help; teachers and lecturers are being asked to train themselves, use >> resources etc, but they are also amongst the under-resourced >> - most South Africans not having adequate access to proper sanitation >> (water especially), this constraints health care practices related to >> preventing the prevention such as handwashing. >> - most South Africans also cant afford masks or hand sanitisers >> - lack of protective clothing for health care workers (there have >> been protests about this, and the government does seem to be responding >> >> (Im sure other SAfricans on the list could correct me and add to this) >> >> It feels as if this is the relative calm before the storm. We dont know >> what is going to happen. It is making people very anxious. >> We have a huge population of people who are HIV positive. Many but not >> all are using ARV treatment and this might help. Many South Africans also >> have TB, and not all are on treatment. These conditions compromise the >> immune system and might make the spread faster (once it gets into the >> general population). On the other hand some of these health issues have >> allowed a mechanism for increasing testing - there is now a roll out of >> testing using TB health systems and community mobile services. These are >> being directly at hotspots >> >> On the more positive side, this situation seems to have united political >> parties and shown President Cyril Ramaphosa's leadership skills . >> And there is a proliferation of online cultural activity (see the Centre >> for the less good idea - livestreaming premiers - really good SA theatre) >> which I can now attend as I am 'at home' >> >> Personally I am trying to manage the multiple tasks which come from >> working from home, solo parenting, doing child care and house care, whilst >> also managing my own existential anxiety. The pressure to 'be productive' >> and 'use the time' and 'take a break' are competing and contradictory, let >> alone take on online teaching, train oneself up etc. I think there is an >> extreme burden on women to hold the family fort, produce meals, entertain >> children, keep the peace, and of course, work (like Newton - publish more, >> focus more). And there is 'online fatigue', a wonderful expression that a >> friend used. >> >> However, I'm also trying to explore ways to engage in research online - >> constrained here in SA, and for qualitative research it feels 'wrong' as it >> might only access the more wealthy, resourced parts of our population. >> >> I really appreciate the global community at this time. For example the >> ISCHP listserve had a wonderful question about how to do community and >> participatory research in this time and there were a flood of responses. I >> also participated in a Zoom sessions of the European Community Psychology >> Association and learnt a lot from many of the Italians in the group. >> >> But, we are ok. I keep telling myself it will be ok. I hope >> >> best wishes >> >> Mary >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> on behalf of Andy Blunden >> *Sent:* Wednesday, 08 April 2020 02:25 >> *To:* xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu >> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? >> >> >> Thanks for summing up the situation here in Oz, John. I think you are >> more connected than me. But it remains the case that we have had 50 deaths >> from COVID-19 in a country of 25 million, overwhelmingly from virus >> acquired overseas or directly traceable to overseas cases. >> >> This outcome corresponds to a transformation of the political landscape >> is which unbelievable, but everything depends on how we respond to these >> changes. So I call this not an "existential crisis", but a world- >> *perezhivanie*. China may well return to almost-normal but that is >> unlikely in the neo-liberal world. It is impossible to predict what the >> outcome will be, but it will be a self-transformation of the world activity. >> >> Andy >> ------------------------------ >> *Andy Blunden* >> Hegel for Social Movements >> >> Home Page >> >> On 8/04/2020 8:34 am, John Cripps Clark wrote: >> >> Dear Helena and David >> >> >> >> Here in Australia we have (after a shaky start with returning travellers not >> taking self-isolation seriously >> >> and not quarantining cruise ship passengers) we seem to be following South >> Korea in containing the virus. The outcry over cruise ships has been >> revealing. There is a police investigation >> >> into one of them (it did lead to over 600 new cases and a few deaths). The >> hysteria recalls Australia?s experience in the nineteenth century of >> epidemics >> >> and isolating ourselves from plague ships >> . >> >> >> >> >> As always it is the poor and disadvantaged that are suffering. We have >> tried to isolate the most vulnerable such as remote aboriginal >> communities >> >> and it remains to see whether we will provide the resources necessary for >> these communities. Past experience is not encouraging since these >> communities would not be in the present state if we were serious about >> combatting disadvantage and poverty >> >> . >> >> >> >> On a more parochial level, with extended shutdown and the universities >> under financial stress (partly this is our own fault by becoming dependent >> on overseas student fees >> >> to supplement the steady erosion of government funding) we also need to >> support families with children who are cooped up together trying to juggle >> work, with childcare, with online education over the next two to ten >> months. >> >> >> >> I think there are three ways in which we as, a relatively privileged, >> community of scholars can contribute: >> >> >> >> 1. Supporting our colleagues ? we have unprecedently powerful >> communication technologies at our disposal ? use them for good rather than >> evil. This is especially important in Africa and South America where the >> tidal wave (and I use this term advisedly recalling the 2004 Indian >> Ocean tsunami >> ) >> is about to hit. >> 2. Considering the influence of culture (it is in our title) on the >> worldwide response to Covid-19. David has already flagged the work unit as >> a unit of social organisation in China. >> 3. We need to prepare for the post-Covid-19 bounceback once we have a >> vaccine. The existential crisis (and again I use the word with trepidation >> after the disastrous record of a former Prime Minister?s use of the >> adjective >> ) >> we have is climate change and we can use the present crisis to delay or >> accelerate action. I have heard a frequent cry of ?It will be different >> from now on? and history tells us that this is will not be true unless we >> make it so. There are powerful conservative forces (in Australia, U.S.A., >> Brazil etc.) who will try and use this crisis to increase the mining and >> use of hydrocarbons. As Martin said we are living in the Anthropocene and >> our success in rapidly reducing the production and sequestering atmospheric >> carbon dioxide that will determine our future far more than our confused >> response to Covid-19 (and future communicable diseases). >> >> John >> >> >> >> *From: * >> on behalf of David Kellogg >> >> *Reply-To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" >> >> *Date: *Wednesday, 8 April 2020 at 7:09 am >> *To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" >> >> *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? >> >> >> >> Helena-- >> >> >> >> Situation in China, courtesy my sister-in-law: life in Beijing is pretty >> much back to normal at least on the face of it. People are going out to >> their work units (but there is more work from home than before the >> crisis). Classes still largely taught from ZOOM. My nephew is in >> Shanghai, where the situation is somewhat tighter (proximity to >> Wuhan). Wuhan opened up for real yesterday--people can leave (I lived there >> for two years in the mid-eighties, but I can barely recognize what I see on >> the news now....) I have students in Chengdu (who attend my class via >> ZOOM). People are mostly shopping on line with delivery to the gate of the >> housing unit rather than to their flat (as we do here in Korea). Air >> quality better than it's been in decades. >> >> >> >> Situation here in South Korea: We just extended our lockdown for another >> two weeks. This is in response to a few days of new infections over a >> hundred, but the infections are mostly (80%) Koreans from the US and Europe >> who want to live in a place where the medical system has not broken down or >> is not in the process of breaking down. There are still some "hotspots" of >> community transmission, but these are almost all connected with churches or >> PC cafes. Schools reopen on the 16th, but only online. We have elections in >> a week, and there is a lot of campaigning going on, including the usual >> street based campaigning (the right wing opposition campaigns around the >> curious notion that the government has done absolutely nothing, and the >> government ignores everybody who is not an actual virus). People shop in >> stores, and there is no panic buying or disruption of supply chains. The >> main changes in economic life seem to have to do with transport, and it >> seems like this too will be permanent (electric scooters are everywhere >> now). Bowing instead of shaking hands is really not a bad idea, and >> coffee-shops always were over-rated and over-priced.... >> >> >> >> But what about you, Helena? (One of the things I have learned on this >> list is that you get more or less what you give--people tend to use what >> you write as a model for writing back!) Are you still in Vietnam? Your >> address says Berkeley and your email says Illinois--those are three very >> different venues for the virus and the economy. Can you give us a brief >> account of the situation in each? >> >> >> >> Stay safe, wherever you are! >> >> >> David Kellogg >> >> Sangmyung University >> >> >> >> Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of *Critical >> Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational >> action research * >> >> in *Mind Culture and Activity* >> >> >> >> *https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 >> * >> >> >> >> Some free e-prints available at: >> >> >> >> >> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 >> >> >> >> >> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works >> Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" >> >> >> >> https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 4:30 AM Martin Packer wrote: >> >> Hi Helena, >> >> >> >> I share your concerns. And, despite its challenges, this situation seems >> a great opportunity to apply our distributed expertise(s). I tried to get >> some discussion going in a group concerned with the Anthropocene, but >> people seemed disinclined. >> >> >> >> Martin >> >> >> >> Here?s the first message that I sent? >> >> >> >> The current situation is producing important evidence about the probable >> consequences of the strategies proposed to mitigate climate change. >> Satellites are showing significant reductions in pollution: >> >> >> https://www.space.com/italy-coronavirus-outbreak-response-reduces-emissions-satellite-images.html >> >> >> Experts are suggesting that as a result the coronavirus may save more >> lives than it takes: >> >> >> https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2020/03/11/coronavirus-lockdown-may-save-more-lives-from-pollution-and-climate-than-from-virus/#4a39bb3c5764 >> >> >> So when skeptics ask ?How can you know that reducing air travel will help >> with climate change?? there is now clear evidence with which to answer them. >> >> >> >> Also in China: >> >> >> https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/04/811019032/why-chinas-air-has-been-cleaner-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak >> >> >> >> >> At the same time, I am starting to wonder whether the current health >> guidelines regarding coronvirus are culturally biased. Can they work in >> ?collectivist? cultures (to use the shorthand)? The CDC guidelines, for >> example, include the recommendations to ?Stay home when you are sick,? but >> also that other members of the household should ?Avoid close contact with >> people who are sick? and should ?Choose a room in your home that can be >> used to separate sick household members from those who are healthy. >> Identify a separate bathroom for the sick person to use, if possible.? >> >> This advice is simply not practicable for many households in Colombia. >> There are not enough rooms; there is no second bathroom. In addition, many >> infants and young children here are cared for by grandparents, or even >> great-grandparents (many women here have a baby when young, so an infant >> may have a grandmother who is in her late 30s and a great-grandmother in >> her late 50s). The evidence shows that children don?t become very ill, but >> they do get infected and they can infect other people, among whom elderly >> caregivers will be the most at risk. >> >> So I don?t think social distance and auto-quarantine will work in >> Colombia. Consider what the Chinese did: they went door-to-door to identify >> infected family members and removed them to massive collective quarantine >> setttings. People in the West considered this to be draconian, even cruel. >> But it made sense: much more cross-infection occurred in Chinese homes than >> in places like restaurants. >> >> Unless the authorities can come up with strategies that are more >> appropriate to local circumstances and practices, there is likely to be a >> rapid and elevated peak of infections in Latin American countries. >> >> >> >> And I see there is a related point here, on ageism: >> >> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200313155256.htm >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Apr 7, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Helena Worthen >> wrote: >> >> >> >> Hello, XMCA-ers - >> >> >> >> I don?t remember ever having read that this list was going to shut down >> or even be allowed to fade away. So now I?m writing, as if in the dark, to >> the whole list. We?ve now got a major ? maybe ?the? major crisis of the >> anthropocene on our hands and the distant but connected network represented >> by the conversations on this list seem to me to be a treasure more precious >> than gold - and I?m not speaking metaphorically. >> >> >> >> I am concerned about some of the people who have been pillars and >> resources on his list, people whom I have reached out to over the years and >> heard back from with information and perspectives that I would never have >> been able to access on my own. Where are you now? What are you doing? Are >> you safe and healthy? Do you have information about friends who are unable >> to read or respond to this request? >> >> >> >> I hope to hear some responses to this message. >> >> >> >> Take care of yourselves, please ? >> >> >> >> Helena >> >> >> >> >> >> Helena Worthen >> >> hworthen@illinois.edu >> >> 21 San Mateo Road, Berkeley, CA 94707 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> * Important Notice: The contents of this email are intended solely for >> the named addressee and are confidential; any unauthorised use, >> reproduction or storage of the contents is expressly prohibited. If you >> have received this email in error, please delete it and any attachments >> immediately and advise the sender by return email or telephone. Deakin >> University does not warrant that this email and any attachments are error >> or virus free.* >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200408/23da47b6/attachment.html From greg.a.thompson@gmail.com Wed Apr 8 08:00:33 2020 From: greg.a.thompson@gmail.com (Greg Thompson) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 09:00:33 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> Message-ID: David, I wonder if you could say more about your experience of the state-based "surveillance" in SK. There are lots of different groups in the U.S., both on the left and the right, who are up in arms about the "tracking" of citizens via credit card and cell phone usage. And it sounds like this is a global concern as Mary's report from SA suggests. Also how interesting how similar the conspiracy theories are around the globe (globalization and the spread of viral ideas?). That's world perezhivanie indeed! -greg On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 3:08 PM David Kellogg wrote: > Helena-- > > Situation in China, courtesy my sister-in-law: life in Beijing is pretty > much back to normal at least on the face of it. People are going out to > their work units (but there is more work from home than before the > crisis). Classes still largely taught from ZOOM. My nephew is in > Shanghai, where the situation is somewhat tighter (proximity to > Wuhan). Wuhan opened up for real yesterday--people can leave (I lived there > for two years in the mid-eighties, but I can barely recognize what I see on > the news now....) I have students in Chengdu (who attend my class via > ZOOM). People are mostly shopping on line with delivery to the gate of the > housing unit rather than to their flat (as we do here in Korea). Air > quality better than it's been in decades. > > Situation here in South Korea: We just extended our lockdown for another > two weeks. This is in response to a few days of new infections over a > hundred, but the infections are mostly (80%) Koreans from the US and Europe > who want to live in a place where the medical system has not broken down or > is not in the process of breaking down. There are still some "hotspots" of > community transmission, but these are almost all connected with churches or > PC cafes. Schools reopen on the 16th, but only online. We have elections in > a week, and there is a lot of campaigning going on, including the usual > street based campaigning (the right wing opposition campaigns around the > curious notion that the government has done absolutely nothing, and the > government ignores everybody who is not an actual virus). People shop in > stores, and there is no panic buying or disruption of supply chains. The > main changes in economic life seem to have to do with transport, and it > seems like this too will be permanent (electric scooters are everywhere > now). Bowing instead of shaking hands is really not a bad idea, and > coffee-shops always were over-rated and over-priced.... > > But what about you, Helena? (One of the things I have learned on this list > is that you get more or less what you give--people tend to use what you > write as a model for writing back!) Are you still in Vietnam? Your address > says Berkeley and your email says Illinois--those are three very different > venues for the virus and the economy. Can you give us a brief account of > the situation in each? > > Stay safe, wherever you are! > > David Kellogg > Sangmyung University > > Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of *Critical > Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational > action research * > in *Mind Culture and Activity* > > > *https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 > * > > Some free e-prints available at: > > > https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 > > New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works > Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" > > https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 > > > > On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 4:30 AM Martin Packer wrote: > >> Hi Helena, >> >> I share your concerns. And, despite its challenges, this situation seems >> a great opportunity to apply our distributed expertise(s). I tried to get >> some discussion going in a group concerned with the Anthropocene, but >> people seemed disinclined. >> >> Martin >> >> Here?s the first message that I sent? >> >> The current situation is producing important evidence about the probable >> consequences of the strategies proposed to mitigate climate change. >> Satellites are showing significant reductions in pollution: >> >> https://www.space.com/italy-coronavirus-outbreak-response-reduces-emissions-satellite-images.html >> Experts are suggesting that as a result the coronavirus may save more >> lives than it takes: >> >> https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2020/03/11/coronavirus-lockdown-may-save-more-lives-from-pollution-and-climate-than-from-virus/#4a39bb3c5764 >> So when skeptics ask ?How can you know that reducing air travel will help >> with climate change?? there is now clear evidence with which to answer them. >> >> Also in China: >> >> https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/04/811019032/why-chinas-air-has-been-cleaner-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak >> >> At the same time, I am starting to wonder whether the current health >> guidelines regarding coronvirus are culturally biased. Can they work in >> ?collectivist? cultures (to use the shorthand)? The CDC guidelines, for >> example, include the recommendations to ?Stay home when you are sick,? but >> also that other members of the household should ?Avoid close contact with >> people who are sick? and should ?Choose a room in your home that can be >> used to separate sick household members from those who are healthy. >> Identify a separate bathroom for the sick person to use, if possible.? >> This advice is simply not practicable for many households in Colombia. >> There are not enough rooms; there is no second bathroom. In addition, many >> infants and young children here are cared for by grandparents, or even >> great-grandparents (many women here have a baby when young, so an infant >> may have a grandmother who is in her late 30s and a great-grandmother in >> her late 50s). The evidence shows that children don?t become very ill, but >> they do get infected and they can infect other people, among whom elderly >> caregivers will be the most at risk. >> So I don?t think social distance and auto-quarantine will work in >> Colombia. Consider what the Chinese did: they went door-to-door to identify >> infected family members and removed them to massive collective quarantine >> setttings. People in the West considered this to be draconian, even cruel. >> But it made sense: much more cross-infection occurred in Chinese homes than >> in places like restaurants. >> Unless the authorities can come up with strategies that are more >> appropriate to local circumstances and practices, there is likely to be a >> rapid and elevated peak of infections in Latin American countries. >> >> And I see there is a related point here, on ageism: >> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200313155256.htm >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Apr 7, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Helena Worthen >> wrote: >> >> Hello, XMCA-ers - >> >> I don?t remember ever having read that this list was going to shut down >> or even be allowed to fade away. So now I?m writing, as if in the dark, to >> the whole list. We?ve now got a major ? maybe ?the? major crisis of the >> anthropocene on our hands and the distant but connected network represented >> by the conversations on this list seem to me to be a treasure more precious >> than gold - and I?m not speaking metaphorically. >> >> I am concerned about some of the people who have been pillars and >> resources on his list, people whom I have reached out to over the years and >> heard back from with information and perspectives that I would never have >> been able to access on my own. Where are you now? What are you doing? Are >> you safe and healthy? Do you have information about friends who are unable >> to read or respond to this request? >> >> I hope to hear some responses to this message. >> >> Take care of yourselves, please ? >> >> Helena >> >> >> Helena Worthen >> hworthen@illinois.edu >> 21 San Mateo Road, Berkeley, CA 94707 >> >> >> >> -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200408/d2cc551a/attachment.html From sharada.gade@gmail.com Wed Apr 8 09:20:40 2020 From: sharada.gade@gmail.com (Sharada Gade) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 21:50:40 +0530 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> Message-ID: Hello all Here in India, we are under a lockdown one that reminds me of lessons from the 1940s from our mass struggle for independence, which would be my grandparents generation. We are back to times which did well for us then self-sacrifice, self-reliance, solidarity and hardship. But I guess, that is the story of people everywhere in their own history and in these unprecedented times. We are bracing ourselves for a longish lockdown too. In Hyderabad, the southern city I was born and live in all is quiet and we have essentials coming to our doorstep. I thought of sharing a short film of our empty streets one those living here may never get to ourselves see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghQM96IOZvM I am thankful for all your stories too Sharada --------------------------------------------------- https://orcid.org/0000-0002-8382-3197 ---------------------------------------------------- On 4/8/20, Greg Thompson wrote: > David, > > I wonder if you could say more about your experience of the state-based > "surveillance" in SK. There are lots of different groups in the U.S., both > on the left and the right, who are up in arms about the "tracking" of > citizens via credit card and cell phone usage. > > And it sounds like this is a global concern as Mary's report from SA > suggests. > > Also how interesting how similar the conspiracy theories are around the > globe (globalization and the spread of viral ideas?). That's world > perezhivanie indeed! > > -greg > > On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 3:08 PM David Kellogg wrote: > >> Helena-- >> >> Situation in China, courtesy my sister-in-law: life in Beijing is pretty >> much back to normal at least on the face of it. People are going out to >> their work units (but there is more work from home than before the >> crisis). Classes still largely taught from ZOOM. My nephew is in >> Shanghai, where the situation is somewhat tighter (proximity to >> Wuhan). Wuhan opened up for real yesterday--people can leave (I lived >> there >> for two years in the mid-eighties, but I can barely recognize what I see >> on >> the news now....) I have students in Chengdu (who attend my class via >> ZOOM). People are mostly shopping on line with delivery to the gate of >> the >> housing unit rather than to their flat (as we do here in Korea). Air >> quality better than it's been in decades. >> >> Situation here in South Korea: We just extended our lockdown for another >> two weeks. This is in response to a few days of new infections over a >> hundred, but the infections are mostly (80%) Koreans from the US and >> Europe >> who want to live in a place where the medical system has not broken down >> or >> is not in the process of breaking down. There are still some "hotspots" >> of >> community transmission, but these are almost all connected with churches >> or >> PC cafes. Schools reopen on the 16th, but only online. We have elections >> in >> a week, and there is a lot of campaigning going on, including the usual >> street based campaigning (the right wing opposition campaigns around the >> curious notion that the government has done absolutely nothing, and the >> government ignores everybody who is not an actual virus). People shop in >> stores, and there is no panic buying or disruption of supply chains. The >> main changes in economic life seem to have to do with transport, and it >> seems like this too will be permanent (electric scooters are everywhere >> now). Bowing instead of shaking hands is really not a bad idea, and >> coffee-shops always were over-rated and over-priced.... >> >> But what about you, Helena? (One of the things I have learned on this >> list >> is that you get more or less what you give--people tend to use what you >> write as a model for writing back!) Are you still in Vietnam? Your >> address >> says Berkeley and your email says Illinois--those are three very >> different >> venues for the virus and the economy. Can you give us a brief account of >> the situation in each? >> >> Stay safe, wherever you are! >> >> David Kellogg >> Sangmyung University >> >> Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of *Critical >> Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational >> action research * >> in *Mind Culture and Activity* >> >> >> *https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 >> * >> >> Some free e-prints available at: >> >> >> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 >> >> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works >> Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" >> >> https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 >> >> >> >> On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 4:30 AM Martin Packer wrote: >> >>> Hi Helena, >>> >>> I share your concerns. And, despite its challenges, this situation seems >>> a great opportunity to apply our distributed expertise(s). I tried to >>> get >>> some discussion going in a group concerned with the Anthropocene, but >>> people seemed disinclined. >>> >>> Martin >>> >>> Here?s the first message that I sent? >>> >>> The current situation is producing important evidence about the probable >>> consequences of the strategies proposed to mitigate climate change. >>> Satellites are showing significant reductions in pollution: >>> >>> https://www.space.com/italy-coronavirus-outbreak-response-reduces-emissions-satellite-images.html >>> Experts are suggesting that as a result the coronavirus may save more >>> lives than it takes: >>> >>> https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2020/03/11/coronavirus-lockdown-may-save-more-lives-from-pollution-and-climate-than-from-virus/#4a39bb3c5764 >>> So when skeptics ask ?How can you know that reducing air travel will >>> help >>> with climate change?? there is now clear evidence with which to answer >>> them. >>> >>> Also in China: >>> >>> https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/04/811019032/why-chinas-air-has-been-cleaner-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak >>> >>> At the same time, I am starting to wonder whether the current health >>> guidelines regarding coronvirus are culturally biased. Can they work in >>> ?collectivist? cultures (to use the shorthand)? The CDC guidelines, for >>> example, include the recommendations to ?Stay home when you are sick,? >>> but >>> also that other members of the household should ?Avoid close contact >>> with >>> people who are sick? and should ?Choose a room in your home that can be >>> used to separate sick household members from those who are healthy. >>> Identify a separate bathroom for the sick person to use, if possible.? >>> This advice is simply not practicable for many households in Colombia. >>> There are not enough rooms; there is no second bathroom. In addition, >>> many >>> infants and young children here are cared for by grandparents, or even >>> great-grandparents (many women here have a baby when young, so an infant >>> may have a grandmother who is in her late 30s and a great-grandmother in >>> her late 50s). The evidence shows that children don?t become very ill, >>> but >>> they do get infected and they can infect other people, among whom >>> elderly >>> caregivers will be the most at risk. >>> So I don?t think social distance and auto-quarantine will work in >>> Colombia. Consider what the Chinese did: they went door-to-door to >>> identify >>> infected family members and removed them to massive collective >>> quarantine >>> setttings. People in the West considered this to be draconian, even >>> cruel. >>> But it made sense: much more cross-infection occurred in Chinese homes >>> than >>> in places like restaurants. >>> Unless the authorities can come up with strategies that are more >>> appropriate to local circumstances and practices, there is likely to be >>> a >>> rapid and elevated peak of infections in Latin American countries. >>> >>> And I see there is a related point here, on ageism: >>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200313155256.htm >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Apr 7, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Helena Worthen >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hello, XMCA-ers - >>> >>> I don?t remember ever having read that this list was going to shut down >>> or even be allowed to fade away. So now I?m writing, as if in the dark, >>> to >>> the whole list. We?ve now got a major ? maybe ?the? major crisis of the >>> anthropocene on our hands and the distant but connected network >>> represented >>> by the conversations on this list seem to me to be a treasure more >>> precious >>> than gold - and I?m not speaking metaphorically. >>> >>> I am concerned about some of the people who have been pillars and >>> resources on his list, people whom I have reached out to over the years >>> and >>> heard back from with information and perspectives that I would never >>> have >>> been able to access on my own. Where are you now? What are you doing? >>> Are >>> you safe and healthy? Do you have information about friends who are >>> unable >>> to read or respond to this request? >>> >>> I hope to hear some responses to this message. >>> >>> Take care of yourselves, please ? >>> >>> Helena >>> >>> >>> Helena Worthen >>> hworthen@illinois.edu >>> 21 San Mateo Road, Berkeley, CA 94707 >>> >>> >>> >>> > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > From hshonerd@gmail.com Wed Apr 8 09:47:53 2020 From: hshonerd@gmail.com (HENRY SHONERD) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 10:47:53 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> Message-ID: Hi All, Like Greg, I was struck by Andy?s sense that China may go back to ?normal? but the neo-liberal ?first" world is and will be experiencing a profound perizhvanie. You?d hope it will be for the good. In the U.S,, generally, rates of infection are positively correlated with density of population. For example, I live in New Mexico, the fifth largest state in the U.S. with a population of a little over a one million and the lowest rate of infection?so far. However, our Navajo live spread out to the west and north of us, but have very high rates of infection. Little Zia Pueblo, just an our by car to the north and west of us, only has about a thousand people, with eleven confirmed cases. Poverty. In the country as a whole people of color have relatively higher rates of infection. Poverty. Our governor, Michelle Lujan Grisham (who I am proud to say is a good friend), has been successful in pushing baci against Trump?s efforts to punish states that did not vote for him by being less than cooperative in providing resources against the pandemic. She has been using her bully pulpit against Trump's bloviating. His hot air has got to be an infectious agent. Most of us are using masks in public, evidence indicating that it protects OTHERS by wearing them. Trump prefers NOT to wear a mask. Consistent with his politics. You can?t make this up. Be well, Henry > On Apr 8, 2020, at 9:00 AM, Greg Thompson wrote: > > David, > > I wonder if you could say more about your experience of the state-based "surveillance" in SK. There are lots of different groups in the U.S., both on the left and the right, who are up in arms about the "tracking" of citizens via credit card and cell phone usage. > > And it sounds like this is a global concern as Mary's report from SA suggests. > > Also how interesting how similar the conspiracy theories are around the globe (globalization and the spread of viral ideas?). That's world perezhivanie indeed! > > -greg > > On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 3:08 PM David Kellogg > wrote: > Helena-- > > Situation in China, courtesy my sister-in-law: life in Beijing is pretty much back to normal at least on the face of it. People are going out to their work units (but there is more work from home than before the crisis). Classes still largely taught from ZOOM. My nephew is in Shanghai, where the situation is somewhat tighter (proximity to Wuhan). Wuhan opened up for real yesterday--people can leave (I lived there for two years in the mid-eighties, but I can barely recognize what I see on the news now....) I have students in Chengdu (who attend my class via ZOOM). People are mostly shopping on line with delivery to the gate of the housing unit rather than to their flat (as we do here in Korea). Air quality better than it's been in decades. > > Situation here in South Korea: We just extended our lockdown for another two weeks. This is in response to a few days of new infections over a hundred, but the infections are mostly (80%) Koreans from the US and Europe who want to live in a place where the medical system has not broken down or is not in the process of breaking down. There are still some "hotspots" of community transmission, but these are almost all connected with churches or PC cafes. Schools reopen on the 16th, but only online. We have elections in a week, and there is a lot of campaigning going on, including the usual street based campaigning (the right wing opposition campaigns around the curious notion that the government has done absolutely nothing, and the government ignores everybody who is not an actual virus). People shop in stores, and there is no panic buying or disruption of supply chains. The main changes in economic life seem to have to do with transport, and it seems like this too will be permanent (electric scooters are everywhere now). Bowing instead of shaking hands is really not a bad idea, and coffee-shops always were over-rated and over-priced.... > > But what about you, Helena? (One of the things I have learned on this list is that you get more or less what you give--people tend to use what you write as a model for writing back!) Are you still in Vietnam? Your address says Berkeley and your email says Illinois--those are three very different venues for the virus and the economy. Can you give us a brief account of the situation in each? > > Stay safe, wherever you are! > > David Kellogg > Sangmyung University > > Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational action research > in Mind Culture and Activity > > https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 > > Some free e-prints available at: > > https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 > > New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" > > https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 > > > On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 4:30 AM Martin Packer > wrote: > Hi Helena, > > I share your concerns. And, despite its challenges, this situation seems a great opportunity to apply our distributed expertise(s). I tried to get some discussion going in a group concerned with the Anthropocene, but people seemed disinclined. > > Martin > > Here?s the first message that I sent? > > The current situation is producing important evidence about the probable consequences of the strategies proposed to mitigate climate change. Satellites are showing significant reductions in pollution: > https://www.space.com/italy-coronavirus-outbreak-response-reduces-emissions-satellite-images.html > Experts are suggesting that as a result the coronavirus may save more lives than it takes: > https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2020/03/11/coronavirus-lockdown-may-save-more-lives-from-pollution-and-climate-than-from-virus/#4a39bb3c5764 > So when skeptics ask ?How can you know that reducing air travel will help with climate change?? there is now clear evidence with which to answer them. > > Also in China: > https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/04/811019032/why-chinas-air-has-been-cleaner-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak > > At the same time, I am starting to wonder whether the current health guidelines regarding coronvirus are culturally biased. Can they work in ?collectivist? cultures (to use the shorthand)? The CDC guidelines, for example, include the recommendations to ?Stay home when you are sick,? but also that other members of the household should ?Avoid close contact with people who are sick? and should ?Choose a room in your home that can be used to separate sick household members from those who are healthy. Identify a separate bathroom for the sick person to use, if possible.? > This advice is simply not practicable for many households in Colombia. There are not enough rooms; there is no second bathroom. In addition, many infants and young children here are cared for by grandparents, or even great-grandparents (many women here have a baby when young, so an infant may have a grandmother who is in her late 30s and a great-grandmother in her late 50s). The evidence shows that children don?t become very ill, but they do get infected and they can infect other people, among whom elderly caregivers will be the most at risk. > So I don?t think social distance and auto-quarantine will work in Colombia. Consider what the Chinese did: they went door-to-door to identify infected family members and removed them to massive collective quarantine setttings. People in the West considered this to be draconian, even cruel. But it made sense: much more cross-infection occurred in Chinese homes than in places like restaurants. > Unless the authorities can come up with strategies that are more appropriate to local circumstances and practices, there is likely to be a rapid and elevated peak of infections in Latin American countries. > > And I see there is a related point here, on ageism: > https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200313155256.htm > > > > > > >> On Apr 7, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Helena Worthen > wrote: >> >> Hello, XMCA-ers - >> >> I don?t remember ever having read that this list was going to shut down or even be allowed to fade away. So now I?m writing, as if in the dark, to the whole list. We?ve now got a major ? maybe ?the? major crisis of the anthropocene on our hands and the distant but connected network represented by the conversations on this list seem to me to be a treasure more precious than gold - and I?m not speaking metaphorically. >> >> I am concerned about some of the people who have been pillars and resources on his list, people whom I have reached out to over the years and heard back from with information and perspectives that I would never have been able to access on my own. Where are you now? What are you doing? Are you safe and healthy? Do you have information about friends who are unable to read or respond to this request? >> >> I hope to hear some responses to this message. >> >> Take care of yourselves, please ? >> >> Helena >> >> >> Helena Worthen >> hworthen@illinois.edu >> 21 San Mateo Road, Berkeley, CA 94707 >> >> > > > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200408/8634ce6a/attachment.html From Peg.Griffin@att.net Wed Apr 8 10:27:55 2020 From: Peg.Griffin@att.net (Peg Griffin, Ph.D.) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 13:27:55 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> Message-ID: <001301d60dcb$0b376430$21a62c90$@att.net> Henry, please tell your governor/friend, Michelle Lujan Grisham, ?We see her, we hear her, we love her, and we know we need her.? Groups here that made good use of allies before the pandemic are making good, well-planned use of us now, especially for those in the shadows, by necessity or oversight, to address basic food and medical insecurity. And thank you, too, Henry and others on xmca. Relatively healthy (AKA no Co-vid19 that we know of and well masked ? my favorite right now is an easily washed and bleached homemade one with a blue lamb motive ? anyone need a pdf for making adult or child masks, with or without hepa-filters?) and safe, Peg From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 12:48 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Hi All, Like Greg, I was struck by Andy?s sense that China may go back to ?normal? but the neo-liberal ?first" world is and will be experiencing a profound perizhvanie. You?d hope it will be for the good. In the U.S,, generally, rates of infection are positively correlated with density of population. For example, I live in New Mexico, the fifth largest state in the U.S. with a population of a little over a one million and the lowest rate of infection?so far. However, our Navajo live spread out to the west and north of us, but have very high rates of infection. Little Zia Pueblo, just an our by car to the north and west of us, only has about a thousand people, with eleven confirmed cases. Poverty. In the country as a whole people of color have relatively higher rates of infection. Poverty. Our governor, Michelle Lujan Grisham (who I am proud to say is a good friend), has been successful in pushing baci against Trump?s efforts to punish states that did not vote for him by being less than cooperative in providing resources against the pandemic. She has been using her bully pulpit against Trump's bloviating. His hot air has got to be an infectious agent. Most of us are using masks in public, evidence indicating that it protects OTHERS by wearing them. Trump prefers NOT to wear a mask. Consistent with his politics. You can?t make this up. Be well, Henry On Apr 8, 2020, at 9:00 AM, Greg Thompson > wrote: David, I wonder if you could say more about your experience of the state-based "surveillance" in SK. There are lots of different groups in the U.S., both on the left and the right, who are up in arms about the "tracking" of citizens via credit card and cell phone usage. And it sounds like this is a global concern as Mary's report from SA suggests. Also how interesting how similar the conspiracy theories are around the globe (globalization and the spread of viral ideas?). That's world perezhivanie indeed! -greg On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 3:08 PM David Kellogg > wrote: Helena-- Situation in China, courtesy my sister-in-law: life in Beijing is pretty much back to normal at least on the face of it. People are going out to their work units (but there is more work from home than before the crisis). Classes still largely taught from ZOOM. My nephew is in Shanghai, where the situation is somewhat tighter (proximity to Wuhan). Wuhan opened up for real yesterday--people can leave (I lived there for two years in the mid-eighties, but I can barely recognize what I see on the news now....) I have students in Chengdu (who attend my class via ZOOM). People are mostly shopping on line with delivery to the gate of the housing unit rather than to their flat (as we do here in Korea). Air quality better than it's been in decades. Situation here in South Korea: We just extended our lockdown for another two weeks. This is in response to a few days of new infections over a hundred, but the infections are mostly (80%) Koreans from the US and Europe who want to live in a place where the medical system has not broken down or is not in the process of breaking down. There are still some "hotspots" of community transmission, but these are almost all connected with churches or PC cafes. Schools reopen on the 16th, but only online. We have elections in a week, and there is a lot of campaigning going on, including the usual street based campaigning (the right wing opposition campaigns around the curious notion that the government has done absolutely nothing, and the government ignores everybody who is not an actual virus). People shop in stores, and there is no panic buying or disruption of supply chains. The main changes in economic life seem to have to do with transport, and it seems like this too will be permanent (electric scooters are everywhere now). Bowing instead of shaking hands is really not a bad idea, and coffee-shops always were over-rated and over-priced.... But what about you, Helena? (One of the things I have learned on this list is that you get more or less what you give--people tend to use what you write as a model for writing back!) Are you still in Vietnam? Your address says Berkeley and your email says Illinois--those are three very different venues for the virus and the economy. Can you give us a brief account of the situation in each? Stay safe, wherever you are! David Kellogg Sangmyung University Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational action research in Mind Culture and Activity https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 Some free e-prints available at: https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 4:30 AM Martin Packer > wrote: Hi Helena, I share your concerns. And, despite its challenges, this situation seems a great opportunity to apply our distributed expertise(s). I tried to get some discussion going in a group concerned with the Anthropocene, but people seemed disinclined. Martin Here?s the first message that I sent? The current situation is producing important evidence about the probable consequences of the strategies proposed to mitigate climate change. Satellites are showing significant reductions in pollution: https://www.space.com/italy-coronavirus-outbreak-response-reduces-emissions-satellite-images.html Experts are suggesting that as a result the coronavirus may save more lives than it takes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2020/03/11/coronavirus-lockdown-may-save-more-lives-from-pollution-and-climate-than-from-virus/#4a39bb3c5764 So when skeptics ask ?How can you know that reducing air travel will help with climate change?? there is now clear evidence with which to answer them. Also in China: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/04/811019032/why-chinas-air-has-been-cleaner-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak At the same time, I am starting to wonder whether the current health guidelines regarding coronvirus are culturally biased. Can they work in ?collectivist? cultures (to use the shorthand)? The CDC guidelines, for example, include the recommendations to ?Stay home when you are sick,? but also that other members of the household should ?Avoid close contact with people who are sick? and should ?Choose a room in your home that can be used to separate sick household members from those who are healthy. Identify a separate bathroom for the sick person to use, if possible.? This advice is simply not practicable for many households in Colombia. There are not enough rooms; there is no second bathroom. In addition, many infants and young children here are cared for by grandparents, or even great-grandparents (many women here have a baby when young, so an infant may have a grandmother who is in her late 30s and a great-grandmother in her late 50s). The evidence shows that children don?t become very ill, but they do get infected and they can infect other people, among whom elderly caregivers will be the most at risk. So I don?t think social distance and auto-quarantine will work in Colombia. Consider what the Chinese did: they went door-to-door to identify infected family members and removed them to massive collective quarantine setttings. People in the West considered this to be draconian, even cruel. But it made sense: much more cross-infection occurred in Chinese homes than in places like restaurants. Unless the authorities can come up with strategies that are more appropriate to local circumstances and practices, there is likely to be a rapid and elevated peak of infections in Latin American countries. And I see there is a related point here, on ageism: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200313155256.htm On Apr 7, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Helena Worthen > wrote: Hello, XMCA-ers - I don?t remember ever having read that this list was going to shut down or even be allowed to fade away. So now I?m writing, as if in the dark, to the whole list. We?ve now got a major ? maybe ?the? major crisis of the anthropocene on our hands and the distant but connected network represented by the conversations on this list seem to me to be a treasure more precious than gold - and I?m not speaking metaphorically. I am concerned about some of the people who have been pillars and resources on his list, people whom I have reached out to over the years and heard back from with information and perspectives that I would never have been able to access on my own. Where are you now? What are you doing? Are you safe and healthy? Do you have information about friends who are unable to read or respond to this request? I hope to hear some responses to this message. Take care of yourselves, please ? Helena Helena Worthen hworthen@illinois.edu 21 San Mateo Road, Berkeley, CA 94707 -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200408/cb8bd693/attachment.html From hshonerd@gmail.com Wed Apr 8 14:14:12 2020 From: hshonerd@gmail.com (HENRY SHONERD) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 15:14:12 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: <001301d60dcb$0b376430$21a62c90$@att.net> References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> <001301d60dcb$0b376430$21a62c90$@att.net> Message-ID: <7F97CF82-25AF-4388-98AC-D6A838CA008F@gmail.com> Hey Peg! Yes, I will tell Governor Michelle you?re rooting for her from where you and yours are at! Please forgive my senior moment, but where do YOU live? My wife Judy figured out how to make a mask from a bandana and two hair ties. Like I?m ready to rob the stage coach, full of ppe (personal protective equipment).:) I saw a cartoon of Trump and his underlings at one of his you-can?t-make-it-up briefings. They are wearing masks that cover nose and mouth. Trump has a Lone Ranger mask. Here?s a link for those short on Americana: https://www.pinterest.com/robertharmon311/lone-ranger-mask-patterns-for-save-ranger-challeng/ Stay safe and well! Henry > On Apr 8, 2020, at 11:27 AM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. wrote: > > Henry, please tell your governor/friend, Michelle Lujan Grisham, ?We see her, we hear her, we love her, and we know we need her.? > > Groups here that made good use of allies before the pandemic are making good, well-planned use of us now, especially for those in the shadows, by necessity or oversight, to address basic food and medical insecurity. > > And thank you, too, Henry and others on xmca. > > Relatively healthy (AKA no Co-vid19 that we know of and well masked ? my favorite right now is an easily washed and bleached homemade one with a blue lamb motive ? anyone need a pdf for making adult or child masks, with or without hepa-filters?) and safe, > Peg > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu ] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD > Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 12:48 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? > > Hi All, > Like Greg, I was struck by Andy?s sense that China may go back to ?normal? but the neo-liberal ?first" world is and will be experiencing a profound perizhvanie. You?d hope it will be for the good. > > In the U.S,, generally, rates of infection are positively correlated with density of population. For example, I live in New Mexico, the fifth largest state in the U.S. with a population of a little over a one million and the lowest rate of infection?so far. However, our Navajo live spread out to the west and north of us, but have very high rates of infection. Little Zia Pueblo, just an our by car to the north and west of us, only has about a thousand people, with eleven confirmed cases. Poverty. In the country as a whole people of color have relatively higher rates of infection. Poverty. > > Our governor, Michelle Lujan Grisham (who I am proud to say is a good friend), has been successful in pushing baci against Trump?s efforts to punish states that did not vote for him by being less than cooperative in providing resources against the pandemic. She has been using her bully pulpit against Trump's bloviating. His hot air has got to be an infectious agent. Most of us are using masks in public, evidence indicating that it protects OTHERS by wearing them. Trump prefers NOT to wear a mask. Consistent with his politics. You can?t make this up. > > Be well, > Henry > > >> On Apr 8, 2020, at 9:00 AM, Greg Thompson > wrote: >> >> David, >> >> I wonder if you could say more about your experience of the state-based "surveillance" in SK. There are lots of different groups in the U.S., both on the left and the right, who are up in arms about the "tracking" of citizens via credit card and cell phone usage. >> >> And it sounds like this is a global concern as Mary's report from SA suggests. >> >> Also how interesting how similar the conspiracy theories are around the globe (globalization and the spread of viral ideas?). That's world perezhivanie indeed! >> >> -greg >> >> On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 3:08 PM David Kellogg > wrote: >>> Helena-- >>> >>> Situation in China, courtesy my sister-in-law: life in Beijing is pretty much back to normal at least on the face of it. People are going out to their work units (but there is more work from home than before the crisis). Classes still largely taught from ZOOM. My nephew is in Shanghai, where the situation is somewhat tighter (proximity to Wuhan). Wuhan opened up for real yesterday--people can leave (I lived there for two years in the mid-eighties, but I can barely recognize what I see on the news now....) I have students in Chengdu (who attend my class via ZOOM). People are mostly shopping on line with delivery to the gate of the housing unit rather than to their flat (as we do here in Korea). Air quality better than it's been in decades. >>> >>> Situation here in South Korea: We just extended our lockdown for another two weeks. This is in response to a few days of new infections over a hundred, but the infections are mostly (80%) Koreans from the US and Europe who want to live in a place where the medical system has not broken down or is not in the process of breaking down. There are still some "hotspots" of community transmission, but these are almost all connected with churches or PC cafes. Schools reopen on the 16th, but only online. We have elections in a week, and there is a lot of campaigning going on, including the usual street based campaigning (the right wing opposition campaigns around the curious notion that the government has done absolutely nothing, and the government ignores everybody who is not an actual virus). People shop in stores, and there is no panic buying or disruption of supply chains. The main changes in economic life seem to have to do with transport, and it seems like this too will be permanent (electric scooters are everywhere now). Bowing instead of shaking hands is really not a bad idea, and coffee-shops always were over-rated and over-priced.... >>> >>> But what about you, Helena? (One of the things I have learned on this list is that you get more or less what you give--people tend to use what you write as a model for writing back!) Are you still in Vietnam? Your address says Berkeley and your email says Illinois--those are three very different venues for the virus and the economy. Can you give us a brief account of the situation in each? >>> >>> Stay safe, wherever you are! >>> >>> David Kellogg >>> Sangmyung University >>> >>> Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational action research >>> in Mind Culture and Activity >>> >>> https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 >>> >>> Some free e-prints available at: >>> >>> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 >>> >>> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" >>> >>> https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 4:30 AM Martin Packer > wrote: >>>> Hi Helena, >>>> >>>> I share your concerns. And, despite its challenges, this situation seems a great opportunity to apply our distributed expertise(s). I tried to get some discussion going in a group concerned with the Anthropocene, but people seemed disinclined. >>>> >>>> Martin >>>> >>>> Here?s the first message that I sent? >>>> >>>> The current situation is producing important evidence about the probable consequences of the strategies proposed to mitigate climate change. Satellites are showing significant reductions in pollution: >>>> https://www.space.com/italy-coronavirus-outbreak-response-reduces-emissions-satellite-images.html >>>> Experts are suggesting that as a result the coronavirus may save more lives than it takes: >>>> https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2020/03/11/coronavirus-lockdown-may-save-more-lives-from-pollution-and-climate-than-from-virus/#4a39bb3c5764 >>>> So when skeptics ask ?How can you know that reducing air travel will help with climate change?? there is now clear evidence with which to answer them. >>>> >>>> Also in China: >>>> https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/04/811019032/why-chinas-air-has-been-cleaner-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak >>>> >>>> At the same time, I am starting to wonder whether the current health guidelines regarding coronvirus are culturally biased. Can they work in ?collectivist? cultures (to use the shorthand)? The CDC guidelines, for example, include the recommendations to ?Stay home when you are sick,? but also that other members of the household should ?Avoid close contact with people who are sick? and should ?Choose a room in your home that can be used to separate sick household members from those who are healthy. Identify a separate bathroom for the sick person to use, if possible.? >>>> This advice is simply not practicable for many households in Colombia. There are not enough rooms; there is no second bathroom. In addition, many infants and young children here are cared for by grandparents, or even great-grandparents (many women here have a baby when young, so an infant may have a grandmother who is in her late 30s and a great-grandmother in her late 50s). The evidence shows that children don?t become very ill, but they do get infected and they can infect other people, among whom elderly caregivers will be the most at risk. >>>> So I don?t think social distance and auto-quarantine will work in Colombia. Consider what the Chinese did: they went door-to-door to identify infected family members and removed them to massive collective quarantine setttings. People in the West considered this to be draconian, even cruel. But it made sense: much more cross-infection occurred in Chinese homes than in places like restaurants. >>>> Unless the authorities can come up with strategies that are more appropriate to local circumstances and practices, there is likely to be a rapid and elevated peak of infections in Latin American countries. >>>> >>>> And I see there is a related point here, on ageism: >>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200313155256.htm >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Apr 7, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Helena Worthen > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hello, XMCA-ers - >>>>> >>>>> I don?t remember ever having read that this list was going to shut down or even be allowed to fade away. So now I?m writing, as if in the dark, to the whole list. We?ve now got a major ? maybe ?the? major crisis of the anthropocene on our hands and the distant but connected network represented by the conversations on this list seem to me to be a treasure more precious than gold - and I?m not speaking metaphorically. >>>>> >>>>> I am concerned about some of the people who have been pillars and resources on his list, people whom I have reached out to over the years and heard back from with information and perspectives that I would never have been able to access on my own. Where are you now? What are you doing? Are you safe and healthy? Do you have information about friends who are unable to read or respond to this request? >>>>> >>>>> I hope to hear some responses to this message. >>>>> >>>>> Take care of yourselves, please ? >>>>> >>>>> Helena >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Helena Worthen >>>>> hworthen@illinois.edu >>>>> 21 San Mateo Road, Berkeley, CA 94707 >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >> Assistant Professor >> Department of Anthropology >> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >> Brigham Young University >> Provo, UT 84602 >> WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson >> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200408/131b04b7/attachment-0001.html From huw.softdesigns@gmail.com Wed Apr 8 14:47:04 2020 From: huw.softdesigns@gmail.com (Huw Lloyd) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 22:47:04 +0100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: <7F97CF82-25AF-4388-98AC-D6A838CA008F@gmail.com> References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> <001301d60dcb$0b376430$21a62c90$@att.net> <7F97CF82-25AF-4388-98AC-D6A838CA008F@gmail.com> Message-ID: Is the hijab still banned in Paris? Seems like it protects against things other than sand. I am still here, working out what to do next. Tutoring the children presently. Huw On Wed, 8 Apr 2020 at 22:15, HENRY SHONERD wrote: > Hey Peg! > Yes, I will tell Governor Michelle you?re rooting for her from where you > and yours are at! Please forgive my senior moment, but where do YOU live? > > My wife Judy figured out how to make a mask from a bandana and two hair > ties. Like I?m ready to rob the stage coach, full of ppe (personal > protective equipment).:) I saw a cartoon of Trump and his underlings at one > of his you-can?t-make-it-up briefings. They are wearing masks that cover > nose and mouth. Trump has a Lone Ranger mask. Here?s a link for those short > on Americana: > > https://www.pinterest.com/robertharmon311/lone-ranger-mask-patterns-for-save-ranger-challeng/ > > Stay safe and well! > Henry > > > > > On Apr 8, 2020, at 11:27 AM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. > wrote: > > Henry, please tell your governor/friend, Michelle Lujan Grisham, ?We see > her, we hear her, we love her, and we know we need her.? > > Groups here that made good use of allies before the pandemic are making > good, well-planned use of us now, especially for those in the shadows, by > necessity or oversight, to address basic food and medical insecurity. > > And thank you, too, Henry and others on xmca. > > Relatively healthy (AKA no Co-vid19 that we know of and well masked ? my > favorite right now is an easily washed and bleached homemade one with a > blue lamb motive ? anyone need a pdf for making adult or child masks, with > or without hepa-filters?) and safe, > Peg > > *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [ > mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu ] *On > Behalf Of *HENRY SHONERD > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 8, 2020 12:48 PM > *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? > > Hi All, > Like Greg, I was struck by Andy?s sense that China may go back to ?normal? > but the neo-liberal ?first" world is and will be experiencing a profound > perizhvanie. You?d hope it will be for the good. > > In the U.S,, generally, rates of infection are positively correlated with > density of population. For example, I live in New Mexico, the fifth largest > state in the U.S. with a population of a little over a one million and the > lowest rate of infection?so far. However, our Navajo live spread out to the > west and north of us, but have very high rates of infection. Little Zia > Pueblo, just an our by car to the north and west of us, only has about a > thousand people, with eleven confirmed cases. Poverty. In the country as a > whole people of color have relatively higher rates of infection. Poverty. > > Our governor, Michelle Lujan Grisham (who I am proud to say is a good > friend), has been successful in pushing baci against Trump?s efforts to > punish states that did not vote for him by being less than cooperative in > providing resources against the pandemic. She has been using her bully > pulpit against Trump's bloviating. His hot air has got to be an infectious > agent. Most of us are using masks in public, evidence indicating that it > protects OTHERS by wearing them. Trump prefers NOT to wear a mask. > Consistent with his politics. You can?t make this up. > > Be well, > Henry > > > On Apr 8, 2020, at 9:00 AM, Greg Thompson > wrote: > > David, > > I wonder if you could say more about your experience of the state-based > "surveillance" in SK. There are lots of different groups in the U.S., both > on the left and the right, who are up in arms about the "tracking" of > citizens via credit card and cell phone usage. > > And it sounds like this is a global concern as Mary's report from SA > suggests. > > Also how interesting how similar the conspiracy theories are around the > globe (globalization and the spread of viral ideas?). That's world > perezhivanie indeed! > > -greg > > On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 3:08 PM David Kellogg wrote: > > Helena-- > > Situation in China, courtesy my sister-in-law: life in Beijing is pretty > much back to normal at least on the face of it. People are going out to > their work units (but there is more work from home than before the > crisis). Classes still largely taught from ZOOM. My nephew is in > Shanghai, where the situation is somewhat tighter (proximity to > Wuhan). Wuhan opened up for real yesterday--people can leave (I lived there > for two years in the mid-eighties, but I can barely recognize what I see on > the news now....) I have students in Chengdu (who attend my class via > ZOOM). People are mostly shopping on line with delivery to the gate of the > housing unit rather than to their flat (as we do here in Korea). Air > quality better than it's been in decades. > > Situation here in South Korea: We just extended our lockdown for another > two weeks. This is in response to a few days of new infections over a > hundred, but the infections are mostly (80%) Koreans from the US and Europe > who want to live in a place where the medical system has not broken down or > is not in the process of breaking down. There are still some "hotspots" of > community transmission, but these are almost all connected with churches or > PC cafes. Schools reopen on the 16th, but only online. We have elections in > a week, and there is a lot of campaigning going on, including the usual > street based campaigning (the right wing opposition campaigns around the > curious notion that the government has done absolutely nothing, and the > government ignores everybody who is not an actual virus). People shop in > stores, and there is no panic buying or disruption of supply chains. The > main changes in economic life seem to have to do with transport, and it > seems like this too will be permanent (electric scooters are everywhere > now). Bowing instead of shaking hands is really not a bad idea, and > coffee-shops always were over-rated and over-priced.... > > But what about you, Helena? (One of the things I have learned on this list > is that you get more or less what you give--people tend to use what you > write as a model for writing back!) Are you still in Vietnam? Your address > says Berkeley and your email says Illinois--those are three very different > venues for the virus and the economy. Can you give us a brief account of > the situation in each? > > Stay safe, wherever you are! > > David Kellogg > Sangmyung University > > Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of *Critical > Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational > action research * > in *Mind Culture and Activity* > > *https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 > * > > Some free e-prints available at: > > > https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 > > New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works > Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" > > https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 > > > > On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 4:30 AM Martin Packer wrote: > > Hi Helena, > > I share your concerns. And, despite its challenges, this situation seems a > great opportunity to apply our distributed expertise(s). I tried to get > some discussion going in a group concerned with the Anthropocene, but > people seemed disinclined. > > Martin > > Here?s the first message that I sent? > > The current situation is producing important evidence about the probable > consequences of the strategies proposed to mitigate climate change. > Satellites are showing significant reductions in pollution: > > https://www.space.com/italy-coronavirus-outbreak-response-reduces-emissions-satellite-images.html > Experts are suggesting that as a result the coronavirus may save more > lives than it takes: > > https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2020/03/11/coronavirus-lockdown-may-save-more-lives-from-pollution-and-climate-than-from-virus/#4a39bb3c5764 > So when skeptics ask ?How can you know that reducing air travel will help > with climate change?? there is now clear evidence with which to answer them. > > Also in China: > > https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/04/811019032/why-chinas-air-has-been-cleaner-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak > > At the same time, I am starting to wonder whether the current health > guidelines regarding coronvirus are culturally biased. Can they work in > ?collectivist? cultures (to use the shorthand)? The CDC guidelines, for > example, include the recommendations to ?Stay home when you are sick,? but > also that other members of the household should ?Avoid close contact with > people who are sick? and should ?Choose a room in your home that can be > used to separate sick household members from those who are healthy. > Identify a separate bathroom for the sick person to use, if possible.? > This advice is simply not practicable for many households in Colombia. > There are not enough rooms; there is no second bathroom. In addition, many > infants and young children here are cared for by grandparents, or even > great-grandparents (many women here have a baby when young, so an infant > may have a grandmother who is in her late 30s and a great-grandmother in > her late 50s). The evidence shows that children don?t become very ill, but > they do get infected and they can infect other people, among whom elderly > caregivers will be the most at risk. > So I don?t think social distance and auto-quarantine will work in > Colombia. Consider what the Chinese did: they went door-to-door to identify > infected family members and removed them to massive collective quarantine > setttings. People in the West considered this to be draconian, even cruel. > But it made sense: much more cross-infection occurred in Chinese homes than > in places like restaurants. > Unless the authorities can come up with strategies that are more > appropriate to local circumstances and practices, there is likely to be a > rapid and elevated peak of infections in Latin American countries. > > And I see there is a related point here, on ageism: > https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200313155256.htm > > > > > > > > On Apr 7, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Helena Worthen > wrote: > > Hello, XMCA-ers - > > I don?t remember ever having read that this list was going to shut down or > even be allowed to fade away. So now I?m writing, as if in the dark, to the > whole list. We?ve now got a major ? maybe ?the? major crisis of the > anthropocene on our hands and the distant but connected network represented > by the conversations on this list seem to me to be a treasure more precious > than gold - and I?m not speaking metaphorically. > > I am concerned about some of the people who have been pillars and > resources on his list, people whom I have reached out to over the years and > heard back from with information and perspectives that I would never have > been able to access on my own. Where are you now? What are you doing? Are > you safe and healthy? Do you have information about friends who are unable > to read or respond to this request? > > I hope to hear some responses to this message. > > Take care of yourselves, please ? > > Helena > > > Helena Worthen > hworthen@illinois.edu > 21 San Mateo Road, Berkeley, CA 94707 > > > > > > > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200408/e3e4b4c5/attachment.html From Peg.Griffin@att.net Wed Apr 8 15:27:34 2020 From: Peg.Griffin@att.net (Peg Griffin, Ph.D.) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 18:27:34 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: <7F97CF82-25AF-4388-98AC-D6A838CA008F@gmail.com> References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> <001301d60dcb$0b376430$21a62c90$@att.net> <7F97CF82-25AF-4388-98AC-D6A838CA008F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <000001d60df4$f492efe0$ddb8cfa0$@att.net> I live in Washington, DC, Henry, but my roots here are by way of LCHC in San Diego which begot xlchc which begot xmca. Don?t know why I switched into a biblical dialect, but not hallucinations, just whimsy. And a little tired this evening. Did you notice how my motif in my last post turned unto motive when I sent it? I think it was Leonti?ev sneaking in. The description of your mask seems dashing! Could Judy have alternative (or ulterior) motive (or motif)? Hmmm, just recognized the 5th Dimension wanting into the lineage recital. Still no hallucination just a few sips of a nice Tuscan blend? Peg From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 5:14 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Hey Peg! Yes, I will tell Governor Michelle you?re rooting for her from where you and yours are at! Please forgive my senior moment, but where do YOU live? My wife Judy figured out how to make a mask from a bandana and two hair ties. Like I?m ready to rob the stage coach, full of ppe (personal protective equipment).:) I saw a cartoon of Trump and his underlings at one of his you-can?t-make-it-up briefings. They are wearing masks that cover nose and mouth. Trump has a Lone Ranger mask. Here?s a link for those short on Americana: https://www.pinterest.com/robertharmon311/lone-ranger-mask-patterns-for-save-ranger-challeng/ Stay safe and well! Henry On Apr 8, 2020, at 11:27 AM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. > wrote: Henry, please tell your governor/friend, Michelle Lujan Grisham, ?We see her, we hear her, we love her, and we know we need her.? Groups here that made good use of allies before the pandemic are making good, well-planned use of us now, especially for those in the shadows, by necessity or oversight, to address basic food and medical insecurity. And thank you, too, Henry and others on xmca. Relatively healthy (AKA no Co-vid19 that we know of and well masked ? my favorite right now is an easily washed and bleached homemade one with a blue lamb motive ? anyone need a pdf for making adult or child masks, with or without hepa-filters?) and safe, Peg From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [ mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 12:48 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity < xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Hi All, Like Greg, I was struck by Andy?s sense that China may go back to ?normal? but the neo-liberal ?first" world is and will be experiencing a profound perizhvanie. You?d hope it will be for the good. In the U.S,, generally, rates of infection are positively correlated with density of population. For example, I live in New Mexico, the fifth largest state in the U.S. with a population of a little over a one million and the lowest rate of infection?so far. However, our Navajo live spread out to the west and north of us, but have very high rates of infection. Little Zia Pueblo, just an our by car to the north and west of us, only has about a thousand people, with eleven confirmed cases. Poverty. In the country as a whole people of color have relatively higher rates of infection. Poverty. Our governor, Michelle Lujan Grisham (who I am proud to say is a good friend), has been successful in pushing baci against Trump?s efforts to punish states that did not vote for him by being less than cooperative in providing resources against the pandemic. She has been using her bully pulpit against Trump's bloviating. His hot air has got to be an infectious agent. Most of us are using masks in public, evidence indicating that it protects OTHERS by wearing them. Trump prefers NOT to wear a mask. Consistent with his politics. You can?t make this up. Be well, Henry On Apr 8, 2020, at 9:00 AM, Greg Thompson < greg.a.thompson@gmail.com> wrote: David, I wonder if you could say more about your experience of the state-based "surveillance" in SK. There are lots of different groups in the U.S., both on the left and the right, who are up in arms about the "tracking" of citizens via credit card and cell phone usage. And it sounds like this is a global concern as Mary's report from SA suggests. Also how interesting how similar the conspiracy theories are around the globe (globalization and the spread of viral ideas?). That's world perezhivanie indeed! -greg On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 3:08 PM David Kellogg < dkellogg60@gmail.com> wrote: Helena-- Situation in China, courtesy my sister-in-law: life in Beijing is pretty much back to normal at least on the face of it. People are going out to their work units (but there is more work from home than before the crisis). Classes still largely taught from ZOOM. My nephew is in Shanghai, where the situation is somewhat tighter (proximity to Wuhan). Wuhan opened up for real yesterday--people can leave (I lived there for two years in the mid-eighties, but I can barely recognize what I see on the news now....) I have students in Chengdu (who attend my class via ZOOM). People are mostly shopping on line with delivery to the gate of the housing unit rather than to their flat (as we do here in Korea). Air quality better than it's been in decades. Situation here in South Korea: We just extended our lockdown for another two weeks. This is in response to a few days of new infections over a hundred, but the infections are mostly (80%) Koreans from the US and Europe who want to live in a place where the medical system has not broken down or is not in the process of breaking down. There are still some "hotspots" of community transmission, but these are almost all connected with churches or PC cafes. Schools reopen on the 16th, but only online. We have elections in a week, and there is a lot of campaigning going on, including the usual street based campaigning (the right wing opposition campaigns around the curious notion that the government has done absolutely nothing, and the government ignores everybody who is not an actual virus). People shop in stores, and there is no panic buying or disruption of supply chains. The main changes in economic life seem to have to do with transport, and it seems like this too will be permanent (electric scooters are everywhere now). Bowing instead of shaking hands is really not a bad idea, and coffee-shops always were over-rated and over-priced.... But what about you, Helena? (One of the things I have learned on this list is that you get more or less what you give--people tend to use what you write as a model for writing back!) Are you still in Vietnam? Your address says Berkeley and your email says Illinois--those are three very different venues for the virus and the economy. Can you give us a brief account of the situation in each? Stay safe, wherever you are! David Kellogg Sangmyung University Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational action research in Mind Culture and Activity https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 Some free e-prints available at: https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 4:30 AM Martin Packer < mpacker@cantab.net> wrote: Hi Helena, I share your concerns. And, despite its challenges, this situation seems a great opportunity to apply our distributed expertise(s). I tried to get some discussion going in a group concerned with the Anthropocene, but people seemed disinclined. Martin Here?s the first message that I sent? The current situation is producing important evidence about the probable consequences of the strategies proposed to mitigate climate change. Satellites are showing significant reductions in pollution: https://www.space.com/italy-coronavirus-outbreak-response-reduces-emissions-satellite-images.html Experts are suggesting that as a result the coronavirus may save more lives than it takes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2020/03/11/coronavirus-lockdown-may-save-more-lives-from-pollution-and-climate-than-from-virus/#4a39bb3c5764 So when skeptics ask ?How can you know that reducing air travel will help with climate change?? there is now clear evidence with which to answer them. Also in China: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/04/811019032/why-chinas-air-has-been-cleaner-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak At the same time, I am starting to wonder whether the current health guidelines regarding coronvirus are culturally biased. Can they work in ?collectivist? cultures (to use the shorthand)? The CDC guidelines, for example, include the recommendations to ?Stay home when you are sick,? but also that other members of the household should ?Avoid close contact with people who are sick? and should ?Choose a room in your home that can be used to separate sick household members from those who are healthy. Identify a separate bathroom for the sick person to use, if possible.? This advice is simply not practicable for many households in Colombia. There are not enough rooms; there is no second bathroom. In addition, many infants and young children here are cared for by grandparents, or even great-grandparents (many women here have a baby when young, so an infant may have a grandmother who is in her late 30s and a great-grandmother in her late 50s). The evidence shows that children don?t become very ill, but they do get infected and they can infect other people, among whom elderly caregivers will be the most at risk. So I don?t think social distance and auto-quarantine will work in Colombia. Consider what the Chinese did: they went door-to-door to identify infected family members and removed them to massive collective quarantine setttings. People in the West considered this to be draconian, even cruel. But it made sense: much more cross-infection occurred in Chinese homes than in places like restaurants. Unless the authorities can come up with strategies that are more appropriate to local circumstances and practices, there is likely to be a rapid and elevated peak of infections in Latin American countries. And I see there is a related point here, on ageism: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200313155256.htm On Apr 7, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Helena Worthen < helenaworthen@gmail.com> wrote: Hello, XMCA-ers - I don?t remember ever having read that this list was going to shut down or even be allowed to fade away. So now I?m writing, as if in the dark, to the whole list. We?ve now got a major ? maybe ?the? major crisis of the anthropocene on our hands and the distant but connected network represented by the conversations on this list seem to me to be a treasure more precious than gold - and I?m not speaking metaphorically. I am concerned about some of the people who have been pillars and resources on his list, people whom I have reached out to over the years and heard back from with information and perspectives that I would never have been able to access on my own. Where are you now? What are you doing? Are you safe and healthy? Do you have information about friends who are unable to read or respond to this request? I hope to hear some responses to this message. Take care of yourselves, please ? Helena Helena Worthen hworthen@illinois.edu 21 San Mateo Road, Berkeley, CA 94707 -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200408/f155bcfe/attachment.html From dkellogg60@gmail.com Wed Apr 8 15:25:59 2020 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2020 07:25:59 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> Message-ID: Greg-- I think there are two issues worth discussing on this list, but only one of them is real. 1. The first, unreal, issue, the civil libertarian issue, really just needs to be discussed in order to be debunked, and even that shouldn't take too long, since people whose greatest concern at a time when millions of lives and the future of the planet are at stake, is that 5G technology will be used to monitor their porn consumption patterns, do tend to be rich white folks (as Mary and others have pointed out). China. Take a look at this. It's from Wuhan (unfortunately, I can't send you the sob of recognition I feel at some of these shots of streets I used to haunt when I was in my twenties and the city was my home....). https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-china-52210273/coronavirus-please-learn-from-wuhan-s-mistakes I think it makes the point very well. The Chinese had no interest, no time and no resources to use monitoring for any other purpose than public health. By the way, the same thing is true for the statistics on infection, which all foreign observers, including the WHO but also including independent scholars from American universities, have found scrupulousy accurate. Korea. When I joked that the current South Korean government ignores everybody who isn't actually a virus, I should have explained myself. When you arrive at the airport you are given a free test, whether you are Korean or not. Whether you are Korean or not, if you test positive you are referred immediately to the Covid Units in hospitals. If you are negative, like my neighbor recenty arrived from Madrid, you are given an app which you download, which allows the police to enforce self-quarantine for two weeks. This system is rather imperfect--several false negatives (libertarians from America) have simply left their phones at home and gone on long tours of the country. So there is some talk of replacing the app with a bracelet now; there has been ZERO talk of civil liberties, etc. The conservatives here in Korea are not what you would call libertarians--they come from a militaristic tradition that believes in abduction, rape, and torture of political opponents, and they are peculiarly susceptible to right-wing obedience cults like Shincheonji that organize through mass rallies of tightly packed ranks of spewing aerosols of religious dogma, right wing politics and saliva. When Yi Manhui "apologized" for the infamous Patient 31 hotspot in Daegu, he was wearing a gold watch from Bak Geunhye, and several prominent officials in Gyeongsangdo and Daegu were Shincheonji members: the new United Future Party has yet to make any statement about the role of Shincheonji; their main platform has been to target Chinese people, to complain at the expense of testing foreigners, and to worry that Korean nurses may be tending Chinese patients. From the outset, the health authorities have been very careful not to make any distinction between Chinese and Korean carriers of the virus; the best evidence is that the virus was first brought by Korean members of the Shincheonji branch in Wuhan. 2. The second, real, issue will take more than one post to discuss. I think many people on this list feel instinctively that there OUGHT to be some connection between life after Covid 19 and climate change, but very few of us can put their finger on why there MUST be--that is, we all feel its desirability and find it hard to articulate its precise historical necessity and to explain how it is connected concretely to the current crisis. Perhaps that's inevitable--my father likes to point out how the very mathematical equations you use to model a shock wave are not the same as non-shock wave equations before and after. But in China and in South Korea we are already starting to move beyond the basic social unit of lock-down, which is the household, and trying to find some large social unit which will enable more economic and social activity than consumption, isolation, and self-preservation. That unit has to be larger than the nuclear family, but it also has to be larger than the extended family. At the same time, it has to be small enough to permit the operation of preventive medicine. In China, before the reform, there really was a unit of production larger than the family; as John says, it was the work unit. But even this unit never really replaced the family in the countryside (where it formed the basic unit of production after the collapse of the communes in the great famine). Now, in the cities, decades of economic reform have replaced the work unit with "getihu" (small businesses) on the one hand and huge state or foreign run businesses on the other. Neither of these is really the right size for "the dance"--that is, the gradual LIFTING of restrictions which must follow the lockdown, which will permit limited circulation but ONLY to the point where the infection rate starts to rise again, at which point ONLY those units which are compromised by the virus are shut down. In Korea, the situation is comparable, with the added wrinkle that we are a rather segmentary society, where the extended family is largely intact, and we are massively on-line. Curiously, the issue of finding a supra-familial segment for life after Covid came up in our Vygotsky group. During the lockdown, we are preparing a volume of the Pedology of the Adolescent that consists of a rather short chapter on interests, and a much longer one on concept formation. We used the word ?? for interest--you will recognize this word as the antipode of ?; it is the Dionysian, exuberant, fun-loving interest as opposed to the Appolonian, classical, logical concept. But of course Vygotsky rejects this duality--from the Spinozan side, he insists that concepts too are interested (they are, Andy would say, projects) and that interests are conceptual--hence, in English but not in Korean, we say "class interest" and "bank interest". We are trying to explain the concept of class interest by analogy with the classroom. During the current pandemic, it is a classroom interest to reduce class size to the point where social distancing becomes possible within the classroom and we can then bring the non-sustainable solution of on-line classes to an end. Instead, my university is putting pressure on us to record on-line classes and store them for permanent use, and of course many professors and even some high school teachers are enthusiastic about this (EBS, the educational broadcasting system, is providing a lot of online content which is enabling us to move much of public education online for this semester). This would, of course, allow the government to fire teachers and essentialy reduce the whole of education to self-instruction plus testing. It's in our class(room) interest to defend the integrity of our classrooms, not least because they DO represent a supra-familial unit for life beyond the crisis, one that will enable more than just lockdown and consumption. I think it's THIS scalability of the basic social unit that provides the necessary link between Covid and climate change. David Kellogg Sangmyung University Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of *Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational action research' in Mind Culture and Activity* https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 Some free e-prints available at: https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 1:49 AM HENRY SHONERD wrote: > Hi All, > Like Greg, I was struck by Andy?s sense that China may go back to ?normal? > but the neo-liberal ?first" world is and will be experiencing a profound > perizhvanie. You?d hope it will be for the good. > > In the U.S,, generally, rates of infection are positively correlated with > density of population. For example, I live in New Mexico, the fifth largest > state in the U.S. with a population of a little over a one million and the > lowest rate of infection?so far. However, our Navajo live spread out to the > west and north of us, but have very high rates of infection. Little Zia > Pueblo, just an our by car to the north and west of us, only has about a > thousand people, with eleven confirmed cases. Poverty. In the country as a > whole people of color have relatively higher rates of infection. Poverty. > > Our governor, Michelle Lujan Grisham (who I am proud to say is a good > friend), has been successful in pushing baci against Trump?s efforts to > punish states that did not vote for him by being less than cooperative in > providing resources against the pandemic. She has been using her bully > pulpit against Trump's bloviating. His hot air has got to be an infectious > agent. Most of us are using masks in public, evidence indicating that it > protects OTHERS by wearing them. Trump prefers NOT to wear a mask. > Consistent with his politics. You can?t make this up. > > Be well, > Henry > > On Apr 8, 2020, at 9:00 AM, Greg Thompson > wrote: > > David, > > I wonder if you could say more about your experience of the state-based > "surveillance" in SK. There are lots of different groups in the U.S., both > on the left and the right, who are up in arms about the "tracking" of > citizens via credit card and cell phone usage. > > And it sounds like this is a global concern as Mary's report from SA > suggests. > > Also how interesting how similar the conspiracy theories are around the > globe (globalization and the spread of viral ideas?). That's world > perezhivanie indeed! > > -greg > > On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 3:08 PM David Kellogg wrote: > >> Helena-- >> >> Situation in China, courtesy my sister-in-law: life in Beijing is pretty >> much back to normal at least on the face of it. People are going out to >> their work units (but there is more work from home than before the >> crisis). Classes still largely taught from ZOOM. My nephew is in >> Shanghai, where the situation is somewhat tighter (proximity to >> Wuhan). Wuhan opened up for real yesterday--people can leave (I lived there >> for two years in the mid-eighties, but I can barely recognize what I see on >> the news now....) I have students in Chengdu (who attend my class via >> ZOOM). People are mostly shopping on line with delivery to the gate of the >> housing unit rather than to their flat (as we do here in Korea). Air >> quality better than it's been in decades. >> >> Situation here in South Korea: We just extended our lockdown for another >> two weeks. This is in response to a few days of new infections over a >> hundred, but the infections are mostly (80%) Koreans from the US and Europe >> who want to live in a place where the medical system has not broken down or >> is not in the process of breaking down. There are still some "hotspots" of >> community transmission, but these are almost all connected with churches or >> PC cafes. Schools reopen on the 16th, but only online. We have elections in >> a week, and there is a lot of campaigning going on, including the usual >> street based campaigning (the right wing opposition campaigns around the >> curious notion that the government has done absolutely nothing, and the >> government ignores everybody who is not an actual virus). People shop in >> stores, and there is no panic buying or disruption of supply chains. The >> main changes in economic life seem to have to do with transport, and it >> seems like this too will be permanent (electric scooters are everywhere >> now). Bowing instead of shaking hands is really not a bad idea, and >> coffee-shops always were over-rated and over-priced.... >> >> But what about you, Helena? (One of the things I have learned on this >> list is that you get more or less what you give--people tend to use what >> you write as a model for writing back!) Are you still in Vietnam? Your >> address says Berkeley and your email says Illinois--those are three very >> different venues for the virus and the economy. Can you give us a brief >> account of the situation in each? >> >> Stay safe, wherever you are! >> >> David Kellogg >> Sangmyung University >> >> Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of *Critical >> Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational >> action research * >> in *Mind Culture and Activity* >> >> >> *https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 >> * >> >> Some free e-prints available at: >> >> >> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 >> >> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works >> Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" >> >> https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 >> >> >> >> On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 4:30 AM Martin Packer wrote: >> >>> Hi Helena, >>> >>> I share your concerns. And, despite its challenges, this situation seems >>> a great opportunity to apply our distributed expertise(s). I tried to get >>> some discussion going in a group concerned with the Anthropocene, but >>> people seemed disinclined. >>> >>> Martin >>> >>> Here?s the first message that I sent? >>> >>> The current situation is producing important evidence about the probable >>> consequences of the strategies proposed to mitigate climate change. >>> Satellites are showing significant reductions in pollution: >>> >>> https://www.space.com/italy-coronavirus-outbreak-response-reduces-emissions-satellite-images.html >>> Experts are suggesting that as a result the coronavirus may save more >>> lives than it takes: >>> >>> https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2020/03/11/coronavirus-lockdown-may-save-more-lives-from-pollution-and-climate-than-from-virus/#4a39bb3c5764 >>> So when skeptics ask ?How can you know that reducing air travel will >>> help with climate change?? there is now clear evidence with which to answer >>> them. >>> >>> Also in China: >>> >>> https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/04/811019032/why-chinas-air-has-been-cleaner-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak >>> >>> At the same time, I am starting to wonder whether the current health >>> guidelines regarding coronvirus are culturally biased. Can they work in >>> ?collectivist? cultures (to use the shorthand)? The CDC guidelines, for >>> example, include the recommendations to ?Stay home when you are sick,? but >>> also that other members of the household should ?Avoid close contact with >>> people who are sick? and should ?Choose a room in your home that can be >>> used to separate sick household members from those who are healthy. >>> Identify a separate bathroom for the sick person to use, if possible.? >>> This advice is simply not practicable for many households in Colombia. >>> There are not enough rooms; there is no second bathroom. In addition, many >>> infants and young children here are cared for by grandparents, or even >>> great-grandparents (many women here have a baby when young, so an infant >>> may have a grandmother who is in her late 30s and a great-grandmother in >>> her late 50s). The evidence shows that children don?t become very ill, but >>> they do get infected and they can infect other people, among whom elderly >>> caregivers will be the most at risk. >>> So I don?t think social distance and auto-quarantine will work in >>> Colombia. Consider what the Chinese did: they went door-to-door to identify >>> infected family members and removed them to massive collective quarantine >>> setttings. People in the West considered this to be draconian, even cruel. >>> But it made sense: much more cross-infection occurred in Chinese homes than >>> in places like restaurants. >>> Unless the authorities can come up with strategies that are more >>> appropriate to local circumstances and practices, there is likely to be a >>> rapid and elevated peak of infections in Latin American countries. >>> >>> And I see there is a related point here, on ageism: >>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200313155256.htm >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Apr 7, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Helena Worthen >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hello, XMCA-ers - >>> >>> I don?t remember ever having read that this list was going to shut down >>> or even be allowed to fade away. So now I?m writing, as if in the dark, to >>> the whole list. We?ve now got a major ? maybe ?the? major crisis of the >>> anthropocene on our hands and the distant but connected network represented >>> by the conversations on this list seem to me to be a treasure more precious >>> than gold - and I?m not speaking metaphorically. >>> >>> I am concerned about some of the people who have been pillars and >>> resources on his list, people whom I have reached out to over the years and >>> heard back from with information and perspectives that I would never have >>> been able to access on my own. Where are you now? What are you doing? Are >>> you safe and healthy? Do you have information about friends who are unable >>> to read or respond to this request? >>> >>> I hope to hear some responses to this message. >>> >>> Take care of yourselves, please ? >>> >>> Helena >>> >>> >>> Helena Worthen >>> hworthen@illinois.edu >>> 21 San Mateo Road, Berkeley, CA 94707 >>> >>> >>> >>> > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200409/8fdeb1e5/attachment.html From hshonerd@gmail.com Wed Apr 8 16:52:24 2020 From: hshonerd@gmail.com (HENRY SHONERD) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 17:52:24 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: <000001d60df4$f492efe0$ddb8cfa0$@att.net> References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> <001301d60dcb$0b376430$21a62c90$@att.net> <7F97CF82-25AF-4388-98AC-D6A838CA008F@gmail.com> <000001d60df4$f492efe0$ddb8cfa0$@att.net> Message-ID: I was born at Mercy Hospital in Washington DC. Do you actually live inside the Beltway? Great museums there and food. Scads of family from both Judy?s and my side. One of the last times I visited there, I went to Michelle?s office: She was our representative at the time. She gets around. I have this fantasy brought on by the pandemic and New Mexico?s Blue (Democratic) sweep in 2018 that brought us three kick-ass women: Governor Michelle...Representative Deborah Halland for Albuquerque and surrounds where we live (I canvassed for her in the primary!)?and Representative Xochi Small to the south. All Democrats. The fantasy is that these historic times, this perizhvanie, this Lev budding, will bear fruit in November that gets us through another narrow place. And we will celebrate. Fitting that Passover is tonight, a celebration of liberation from slavery, and a time when we recognize that we are all really strangers, wherever we live. Yikes! Talk about Biblical dialect! It?s as catching as that Corona bug! Must stay well Henry > On Apr 8, 2020, at 4:27 PM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. wrote: > > I live in Washington, DC, Henry, but my roots here are by way of LCHC in San Diego which begot xlchc which begot xmca. Don?t know why I switched into a biblical dialect, but not hallucinations, just whimsy. And a little tired this evening. > Did you notice how my motif in my last post turned unto motive when I sent it? I think it was Leonti?ev sneaking in. > The description of your mask seems dashing! Could Judy have alternative (or ulterior) motive (or motif)? > Hmmm, just recognized the 5th Dimension wanting into the lineage recital. Still no hallucination just a few sips of a nice Tuscan blend? > Peg > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu ] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD > Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 5:14 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? > > Hey Peg! > Yes, I will tell Governor Michelle you?re rooting for her from where you and yours are at! Please forgive my senior moment, but where do YOU live? > > My wife Judy figured out how to make a mask from a bandana and two hair ties. Like I?m ready to rob the stage coach, full of ppe (personal protective equipment).:) I saw a cartoon of Trump and his underlings at one of his you-can?t-make-it-up briefings. They are wearing masks that cover nose and mouth. Trump has a Lone Ranger mask. Here?s a link for those short on Americana: > https://www.pinterest.com/robertharmon311/lone-ranger-mask-patterns-for-save-ranger-challeng/ > > Stay safe and well! > Henry > > > > > >> On Apr 8, 2020, at 11:27 AM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. > wrote: >> >> Henry, please tell your governor/friend, Michelle Lujan Grisham, ?We see her, we hear her, we love her, and we know we need her.? >> >> Groups here that made good use of allies before the pandemic are making good, well-planned use of us now, especially for those in the shadows, by necessity or oversight, to address basic food and medical insecurity. >> >> And thank you, too, Henry and others on xmca. >> >> Relatively healthy (AKA no Co-vid19 that we know of and well masked ? my favorite right now is an easily washed and bleached homemade one with a blue lamb motive ? anyone need a pdf for making adult or child masks, with or without hepa-filters?) and safe, >> Peg >> >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu ] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD >> Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 12:48 PM >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? >> >> Hi All, >> Like Greg, I was struck by Andy?s sense that China may go back to ?normal? but the neo-liberal ?first" world is and will be experiencing a profound perizhvanie. You?d hope it will be for the good. >> >> In the U.S,, generally, rates of infection are positively correlated with density of population. For example, I live in New Mexico, the fifth largest state in the U.S. with a population of a little over a one million and the lowest rate of infection?so far. However, our Navajo live spread out to the west and north of us, but have very high rates of infection. Little Zia Pueblo, just an our by car to the north and west of us, only has about a thousand people, with eleven confirmed cases. Poverty. In the country as a whole people of color have relatively higher rates of infection. Poverty. >> >> Our governor, Michelle Lujan Grisham (who I am proud to say is a good friend), has been successful in pushing baci against Trump?s efforts to punish states that did not vote for him by being less than cooperative in providing resources against the pandemic. She has been using her bully pulpit against Trump's bloviating. His hot air has got to be an infectious agent. Most of us are using masks in public, evidence indicating that it protects OTHERS by wearing them. Trump prefers NOT to wear a mask. Consistent with his politics. You can?t make this up. >> >> Be well, >> Henry >> >> >> >>> On Apr 8, 2020, at 9:00 AM, Greg Thompson > wrote: >>> >>> David, >>> >>> I wonder if you could say more about your experience of the state-based "surveillance" in SK. There are lots of different groups in the U.S., both on the left and the right, who are up in arms about the "tracking" of citizens via credit card and cell phone usage. >>> >>> And it sounds like this is a global concern as Mary's report from SA suggests. >>> >>> Also how interesting how similar the conspiracy theories are around the globe (globalization and the spread of viral ideas?). That's world perezhivanie indeed! >>> >>> -greg >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 3:08 PM David Kellogg > wrote: >>>> Helena-- >>>> >>>> Situation in China, courtesy my sister-in-law: life in Beijing is pretty much back to normal at least on the face of it. People are going out to their work units (but there is more work from home than before the crisis). Classes still largely taught from ZOOM. My nephew is in Shanghai, where the situation is somewhat tighter (proximity to Wuhan). Wuhan opened up for real yesterday--people can leave (I lived there for two years in the mid-eighties, but I can barely recognize what I see on the news now....) I have students in Chengdu (who attend my class via ZOOM). People are mostly shopping on line with delivery to the gate of the housing unit rather than to their flat (as we do here in Korea). Air quality better than it's been in decades. >>>> >>>> Situation here in South Korea: We just extended our lockdown for another two weeks. This is in response to a few days of new infections over a hundred, but the infections are mostly (80%) Koreans from the US and Europe who want to live in a place where the medical system has not broken down or is not in the process of breaking down. There are still some "hotspots" of community transmission, but these are almost all connected with churches or PC cafes. Schools reopen on the 16th, but only online. We have elections in a week, and there is a lot of campaigning going on, including the usual street based campaigning (the right wing opposition campaigns around the curious notion that the government has done absolutely nothing, and the government ignores everybody who is not an actual virus). People shop in stores, and there is no panic buying or disruption of supply chains. The main changes in economic life seem to have to do with transport, and it seems like this too will be permanent (electric scooters are everywhere now). Bowing instead of shaking hands is really not a bad idea, and coffee-shops always were over-rated and over-priced.... >>>> >>>> But what about you, Helena? (One of the things I have learned on this list is that you get more or less what you give--people tend to use what you write as a model for writing back!) Are you still in Vietnam? Your address says Berkeley and your email says Illinois--those are three very different venues for the virus and the economy. Can you give us a brief account of the situation in each? >>>> >>>> Stay safe, wherever you are! >>>> >>>> David Kellogg >>>> Sangmyung University >>>> >>>> Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational action research >>>> in Mind Culture and Activity >>>> >>>> https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 >>>> >>>> Some free e-prints available at: >>>> >>>> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 >>>> >>>> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" >>>> >>>> https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 4:30 AM Martin Packer > wrote: >>>>> Hi Helena, >>>>> >>>>> I share your concerns. And, despite its challenges, this situation seems a great opportunity to apply our distributed expertise(s). I tried to get some discussion going in a group concerned with the Anthropocene, but people seemed disinclined. >>>>> >>>>> Martin >>>>> >>>>> Here?s the first message that I sent? >>>>> >>>>> The current situation is producing important evidence about the probable consequences of the strategies proposed to mitigate climate change. Satellites are showing significant reductions in pollution: >>>>> https://www.space.com/italy-coronavirus-outbreak-response-reduces-emissions-satellite-images.html >>>>> Experts are suggesting that as a result the coronavirus may save more lives than it takes: >>>>> https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2020/03/11/coronavirus-lockdown-may-save-more-lives-from-pollution-and-climate-than-from-virus/#4a39bb3c5764 >>>>> So when skeptics ask ?How can you know that reducing air travel will help with climate change?? there is now clear evidence with which to answer them. >>>>> >>>>> Also in China: >>>>> https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/04/811019032/why-chinas-air-has-been-cleaner-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak >>>>> >>>>> At the same time, I am starting to wonder whether the current health guidelines regarding coronvirus are culturally biased. Can they work in ?collectivist? cultures (to use the shorthand)? The CDC guidelines, for example, include the recommendations to ?Stay home when you are sick,? but also that other members of the household should ?Avoid close contact with people who are sick? and should ?Choose a room in your home that can be used to separate sick household members from those who are healthy. Identify a separate bathroom for the sick person to use, if possible.? >>>>> This advice is simply not practicable for many households in Colombia. There are not enough rooms; there is no second bathroom. In addition, many infants and young children here are cared for by grandparents, or even great-grandparents (many women here have a baby when young, so an infant may have a grandmother who is in her late 30s and a great-grandmother in her late 50s). The evidence shows that children don?t become very ill, but they do get infected and they can infect other people, among whom elderly caregivers will be the most at risk. >>>>> So I don?t think social distance and auto-quarantine will work in Colombia. Consider what the Chinese did: they went door-to-door to identify infected family members and removed them to massive collective quarantine setttings. People in the West considered this to be draconian, even cruel. But it made sense: much more cross-infection occurred in Chinese homes than in places like restaurants. >>>>> Unless the authorities can come up with strategies that are more appropriate to local circumstances and practices, there is likely to be a rapid and elevated peak of infections in Latin American countries. >>>>> >>>>> And I see there is a related point here, on ageism: >>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200313155256.htm >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Apr 7, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Helena Worthen > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello, XMCA-ers - >>>>>> >>>>>> I don?t remember ever having read that this list was going to shut down or even be allowed to fade away. So now I?m writing, as if in the dark, to the whole list. We?ve now got a major ? maybe ?the? major crisis of the anthropocene on our hands and the distant but connected network represented by the conversations on this list seem to me to be a treasure more precious than gold - and I?m not speaking metaphorically. >>>>>> >>>>>> I am concerned about some of the people who have been pillars and resources on his list, people whom I have reached out to over the years and heard back from with information and perspectives that I would never have been able to access on my own. Where are you now? What are you doing? Are you safe and healthy? Do you have information about friends who are unable to read or respond to this request? >>>>>> >>>>>> I hope to hear some responses to this message. >>>>>> >>>>>> Take care of yourselves, please ? >>>>>> >>>>>> Helena >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Helena Worthen >>>>>> hworthen@illinois.edu >>>>>> 21 San Mateo Road, Berkeley, CA 94707 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>> Assistant Professor >>> Department of Anthropology >>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >>> Brigham Young University >>> Provo, UT 84602 >>> WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson >>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200408/5a3a977a/attachment.html From hshonerd@gmail.com Wed Apr 8 17:46:01 2020 From: hshonerd@gmail.com (HENRY SHONERD) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 18:46:01 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> Message-ID: Ah, David Thank you, David, for the link to those heart-breakingly beautiful young people of Wuhan. I think there?s another unit we need to develop: the neighborhood. This too can be a project. In the fantasy i told Peg about, I see the Pandemic bringing back our neighborhood association, inactive for more than 10 years. In this time of the pandemic, I have been working in my yard, putting in a grape arbor, Busting this butt in its eighth decade. As I dig in the dirt, I see how much connects home owners in my neighborhood. They walk by and say hi. I think 40 years of living and working with Navajos and Pueblos has sensitized me to place. Digging in the dirt. I know a fair number of our neighborhood vote for Trump. Some of our best friends. They had their reasons. Our current social units have failed us all. My wife Judy and I are going to die here, and it may not be that long from now! I want our neighborhood a to be a thriving community when that happens. Henry > On Apr 8, 2020, at 4:25 PM, David Kellogg wrote: > > Greg-- > > I think there are two issues worth discussing on this list, but only one of them is real. > > 1. The first, unreal, issue, the civil libertarian issue, really just needs to be discussed in order to be debunked, and even that shouldn't take too long, since people whose greatest concern at a time when millions of lives and the future of the planet are at stake, is that 5G technology will be used to monitor their porn consumption patterns, do tend to be rich white folks (as Mary and others have pointed out). > > China. Take a look at this. It's from Wuhan (unfortunately, I can't send you the sob of recognition I feel at some of these shots of streets I used to haunt when I was in my twenties and the city was my home....). > > https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-china-52210273/coronavirus-please-learn-from-wuhan-s-mistakes > > I think it makes the point very well. The Chinese had no interest, no time and no resources to use monitoring for any other purpose than public health. By the way, the same thing is true for the statistics on infection, which all foreign observers, including the WHO but also including independent scholars from American universities, have found scrupulousy accurate. > > Korea. When I joked that the current South Korean government ignores everybody who isn't actually a virus, I should have explained myself. When you arrive at the airport you are given a free test, whether you are Korean or not. Whether you are Korean or not, if you test positive you are referred immediately to the Covid Units in hospitals. If you are negative, like my neighbor recenty arrived from Madrid, you are given an app which you download, which allows the police to enforce self-quarantine for two weeks. This system is rather imperfect--several false negatives (libertarians from America) have simply left their phones at home and gone on long tours of the country. So there is some talk of replacing the app with a bracelet now; there has been ZERO talk of civil liberties, etc. The conservatives here in Korea are not what you would call libertarians--they come from a militaristic tradition that believes in abduction, rape, and torture of political opponents, and they are peculiarly susceptible to right-wing obedience cults like Shincheonji that organize through mass rallies of tightly packed ranks of spewing aerosols of religious dogma, right wing politics and saliva. When Yi Manhui "apologized" for the infamous Patient 31 hotspot in Daegu, he was wearing a gold watch from Bak Geunhye, and several prominent officials in Gyeongsangdo and Daegu were Shincheonji members: the new United Future Party has yet to make any statement about the role of Shincheonji; their main platform has been to target Chinese people, to complain at the expense of testing foreigners, and to worry that Korean nurses may be tending Chinese patients. From the outset, the health authorities have been very careful not to make any distinction between Chinese and Korean carriers of the virus; the best evidence is that the virus was first brought by Korean members of the Shincheonji branch in Wuhan. > > 2. The second, real, issue will take more than one post to discuss. I think many people on this list feel instinctively that there OUGHT to be some connection between life after Covid 19 and climate change, but very few of us can put their finger on why there MUST be--that is, we all feel its desirability and find it hard to articulate its precise historical necessity and to explain how it is connected concretely to the current crisis. Perhaps that's inevitable--my father likes to point out how the very mathematical equations you use to model a shock wave are not the same as non-shock wave equations before and after. But in China and in South Korea we are already starting to move beyond the basic social unit of lock-down, which is the household, and trying to find some large social unit which will enable more economic and social activity than consumption, isolation, and self-preservation. That unit has to be larger than the nuclear family, but it also has to be larger than the extended family. At the same time, it has to be small enough to permit the operation of preventive medicine. > > In China, before the reform, there really was a unit of production larger than the family; as John says, it was the work unit. But even this unit never really replaced the family in the countryside (where it formed the basic unit of production after the collapse of the communes in the great famine). Now, in the cities, decades of economic reform have replaced the work unit with "getihu" (small businesses) on the one hand and huge state or foreign run businesses on the other. Neither of these is really the right size for "the dance"--that is, the gradual LIFTING of restrictions which must follow the lockdown, which will permit limited circulation but ONLY to the point where the infection rate starts to rise again, at which point ONLY those units which are compromised by the virus are shut down. > > In Korea, the situation is comparable, with the added wrinkle that we are a rather segmentary society, where the extended family is largely intact, and we are massively on-line. Curiously, the issue of finding a supra-familial segment for life after Covid came up in our Vygotsky group. During the lockdown, we are preparing a volume of the Pedology of the Adolescent that consists of a rather short chapter on interests, and a much longer one on concept formation. We used the word ?? for interest--you will recognize this word as the antipode of ?; it is the Dionysian, exuberant, fun-loving interest as opposed to the Appolonian, classical, logical concept. But of course Vygotsky rejects this duality--from the Spinozan side, he insists that concepts too are interested (they are, Andy would say, projects) and that interests are conceptual--hence, in English but not in Korean, we say "class interest" and "bank interest". > > We are trying to explain the concept of class interest by analogy with the classroom. During the current pandemic, it is a classroom interest to reduce class size to the point where social distancing becomes possible within the classroom and we can then bring the non-sustainable solution of on-line classes to an end. Instead, my university is putting pressure on us to record on-line classes and store them for permanent use, and of course many professors and even some high school teachers are enthusiastic about this (EBS, the educational broadcasting system, is providing a lot of online content which is enabling us to move much of public education online for this semester). This would, of course, allow the government to fire teachers and essentialy reduce the whole of education to self-instruction plus testing. It's in our class(room) interest to defend the integrity of our classrooms, not least because they DO represent a supra-familial unit for life beyond the crisis, one that will enable more than just lockdown and consumption. I think it's THIS scalability of the basic social unit that provides the necessary link between Covid and climate change. > > David Kellogg > Sangmyung University > > Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational action research' in Mind Culture and Activity > > https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 > > Some free e-prints available at: > > https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 > > New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" > > https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 > > > On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 1:49 AM HENRY SHONERD > wrote: > Hi All, > Like Greg, I was struck by Andy?s sense that China may go back to ?normal? but the neo-liberal ?first" world is and will be experiencing a profound perizhvanie. You?d hope it will be for the good. > > In the U.S,, generally, rates of infection are positively correlated with density of population. For example, I live in New Mexico, the fifth largest state in the U.S. with a population of a little over a one million and the lowest rate of infection?so far. However, our Navajo live spread out to the west and north of us, but have very high rates of infection. Little Zia Pueblo, just an our by car to the north and west of us, only has about a thousand people, with eleven confirmed cases. Poverty. In the country as a whole people of color have relatively higher rates of infection. Poverty. > > Our governor, Michelle Lujan Grisham (who I am proud to say is a good friend), has been successful in pushing baci against Trump?s efforts to punish states that did not vote for him by being less than cooperative in providing resources against the pandemic. She has been using her bully pulpit against Trump's bloviating. His hot air has got to be an infectious agent. Most of us are using masks in public, evidence indicating that it protects OTHERS by wearing them. Trump prefers NOT to wear a mask. Consistent with his politics. You can?t make this up. > > Be well, > Henry > >> On Apr 8, 2020, at 9:00 AM, Greg Thompson > wrote: >> >> David, >> >> I wonder if you could say more about your experience of the state-based "surveillance" in SK. There are lots of different groups in the U.S., both on the left and the right, who are up in arms about the "tracking" of citizens via credit card and cell phone usage. >> >> And it sounds like this is a global concern as Mary's report from SA suggests. >> >> Also how interesting how similar the conspiracy theories are around the globe (globalization and the spread of viral ideas?). That's world perezhivanie indeed! >> >> -greg >> >> On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 3:08 PM David Kellogg > wrote: >> Helena-- >> >> Situation in China, courtesy my sister-in-law: life in Beijing is pretty much back to normal at least on the face of it. People are going out to their work units (but there is more work from home than before the crisis). Classes still largely taught from ZOOM. My nephew is in Shanghai, where the situation is somewhat tighter (proximity to Wuhan). Wuhan opened up for real yesterday--people can leave (I lived there for two years in the mid-eighties, but I can barely recognize what I see on the news now....) I have students in Chengdu (who attend my class via ZOOM). People are mostly shopping on line with delivery to the gate of the housing unit rather than to their flat (as we do here in Korea). Air quality better than it's been in decades. >> >> Situation here in South Korea: We just extended our lockdown for another two weeks. This is in response to a few days of new infections over a hundred, but the infections are mostly (80%) Koreans from the US and Europe who want to live in a place where the medical system has not broken down or is not in the process of breaking down. There are still some "hotspots" of community transmission, but these are almost all connected with churches or PC cafes. Schools reopen on the 16th, but only online. We have elections in a week, and there is a lot of campaigning going on, including the usual street based campaigning (the right wing opposition campaigns around the curious notion that the government has done absolutely nothing, and the government ignores everybody who is not an actual virus). People shop in stores, and there is no panic buying or disruption of supply chains. The main changes in economic life seem to have to do with transport, and it seems like this too will be permanent (electric scooters are everywhere now). Bowing instead of shaking hands is really not a bad idea, and coffee-shops always were over-rated and over-priced.... >> >> But what about you, Helena? (One of the things I have learned on this list is that you get more or less what you give--people tend to use what you write as a model for writing back!) Are you still in Vietnam? Your address says Berkeley and your email says Illinois--those are three very different venues for the virus and the economy. Can you give us a brief account of the situation in each? >> >> Stay safe, wherever you are! >> >> David Kellogg >> Sangmyung University >> >> Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational action research >> in Mind Culture and Activity >> >> https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 >> >> Some free e-prints available at: >> >> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 >> >> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" >> >> https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 >> >> >> On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 4:30 AM Martin Packer > wrote: >> Hi Helena, >> >> I share your concerns. And, despite its challenges, this situation seems a great opportunity to apply our distributed expertise(s). I tried to get some discussion going in a group concerned with the Anthropocene, but people seemed disinclined. >> >> Martin >> >> Here?s the first message that I sent? >> >> The current situation is producing important evidence about the probable consequences of the strategies proposed to mitigate climate change. Satellites are showing significant reductions in pollution: >> https://www.space.com/italy-coronavirus-outbreak-response-reduces-emissions-satellite-images.html >> Experts are suggesting that as a result the coronavirus may save more lives than it takes: >> https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2020/03/11/coronavirus-lockdown-may-save-more-lives-from-pollution-and-climate-than-from-virus/#4a39bb3c5764 >> So when skeptics ask ?How can you know that reducing air travel will help with climate change?? there is now clear evidence with which to answer them. >> >> Also in China: >> https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/04/811019032/why-chinas-air-has-been-cleaner-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak >> >> At the same time, I am starting to wonder whether the current health guidelines regarding coronvirus are culturally biased. Can they work in ?collectivist? cultures (to use the shorthand)? The CDC guidelines, for example, include the recommendations to ?Stay home when you are sick,? but also that other members of the household should ?Avoid close contact with people who are sick? and should ?Choose a room in your home that can be used to separate sick household members from those who are healthy. Identify a separate bathroom for the sick person to use, if possible.? >> This advice is simply not practicable for many households in Colombia. There are not enough rooms; there is no second bathroom. In addition, many infants and young children here are cared for by grandparents, or even great-grandparents (many women here have a baby when young, so an infant may have a grandmother who is in her late 30s and a great-grandmother in her late 50s). The evidence shows that children don?t become very ill, but they do get infected and they can infect other people, among whom elderly caregivers will be the most at risk. >> So I don?t think social distance and auto-quarantine will work in Colombia. Consider what the Chinese did: they went door-to-door to identify infected family members and removed them to massive collective quarantine setttings. People in the West considered this to be draconian, even cruel. But it made sense: much more cross-infection occurred in Chinese homes than in places like restaurants. >> Unless the authorities can come up with strategies that are more appropriate to local circumstances and practices, there is likely to be a rapid and elevated peak of infections in Latin American countries. >> >> And I see there is a related point here, on ageism: >> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200313155256.htm >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Apr 7, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Helena Worthen > wrote: >>> >>> Hello, XMCA-ers - >>> >>> I don?t remember ever having read that this list was going to shut down or even be allowed to fade away. So now I?m writing, as if in the dark, to the whole list. We?ve now got a major ? maybe ?the? major crisis of the anthropocene on our hands and the distant but connected network represented by the conversations on this list seem to me to be a treasure more precious than gold - and I?m not speaking metaphorically. >>> >>> I am concerned about some of the people who have been pillars and resources on his list, people whom I have reached out to over the years and heard back from with information and perspectives that I would never have been able to access on my own. Where are you now? What are you doing? Are you safe and healthy? Do you have information about friends who are unable to read or respond to this request? >>> >>> I hope to hear some responses to this message. >>> >>> Take care of yourselves, please ? >>> >>> Helena >>> >>> >>> Helena Worthen >>> hworthen@illinois.edu >>> 21 San Mateo Road, Berkeley, CA 94707 >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >> Assistant Professor >> Department of Anthropology >> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >> Brigham Young University >> Provo, UT 84602 >> WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson >> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200408/8d21fc0e/attachment.html From andyb@marxists.org Wed Apr 8 19:53:46 2020 From: andyb@marxists.org (Andy Blunden) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2020 12:53:46 +1000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> Message-ID: One of your more fascinating posts, David. Thank you. On climate and pandemic. It is a political thing. We all know that the person who rejects all expertise insofar as it concerns the world outside their own experience, is inclined to closely inspect the credentials of their neurosurgeon before they go under the knife. So we shouldn't be /surprised/ that people who have blissfully ignored Science as they, like frogs in the saucepan, gradually simmer, suddenly take a keen interest in science when a pandemic sweeps in. Over and above Science, there is Government (a.k.a. Community). Small government is great for facilitating the consumption of the natural conditions for human life in the interests of profit, and like libertarianism as you point out, is catastrophic in the face of a pandemic. And hey, guess what, the government can pay the wages of half the population and provide free child care and the sky doesn't fall in. And (in some countries) in the face of an immediate threat, political opponents can suddenly learn to collaborate and borrow from each others' song sheet. I know it is different in every country. My story above is from just one point of view. What I hear from friends in New York, and Africa, very different. But I think the different narratives unfolding in every country will change the way we face climate change next year. And if it changes the way the "West" behaves it will change the world, even China and South Africa. Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ *Andy Blunden* Hegel for Social Movements Home Page On 9/04/2020 8:25 am, David Kellogg wrote: > Greg-- > > I think there are two issues worth discussing on this > list, but only one of them is real. > > 1. The first, unreal,?issue, the civil libertarian > issue,?really just needs to be discussed in order to > be?debunked, and even that shouldn't take too long, since > people whose greatest concern at a time when millions of > lives and the future of the planet are at stake, is that > 5G technology will be used to monitor their porn > consumption?patterns, do tend to be?rich white folks (as > Mary and others have pointed out). > > China. Take a look at this. It's from Wuhan > (unfortunately, I can't send you the sob of recognition I > feel at some of these shots of streets I used to haunt > when I was in my twenties and the city was my home....). > > https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-china-52210273/coronavirus-please-learn-from-wuhan-s-mistakes > > I think it makes the point very well. The Chinese had no > interest, no time and no resources to use monitoring for > any other purpose than public health. By the way, the same > thing is true for the statistics on infection, which all > foreign observers, including the WHO but also including > independent scholars from American universities, have > found scrupulousy accurate. > > Korea. When I joked that the current South Korean > government ignores everybody who isn't actually a virus, I > should have explained myself. When you arrive at the > airport you?are given a free test, whether you are Korean > or not. Whether you are Korean or not, if you > test?positive you are referred immediately to the Covid > Units in hospitals. If you are negative, like my neighbor > recenty arrived from Madrid, you are given an app which > you download, which allows the police to enforce > self-quarantine for two weeks. This system is rather > imperfect--several?false negatives (libertarians from > America)?have simply left their phones at home and gone on > long tours of the country. So there is some talk of > replacing the app with a bracelet now; there has been ZERO > talk of civil liberties, etc. The conservatives here in > Korea are not what you would call libertarians--they come > from a militaristic tradition that believes in abduction, > rape, and torture of political opponents, and they are > peculiarly susceptible to right-wing obedience cults like > Shincheonji that organize through mass rallies of tightly > packed ranks of spewing aerosols of religious dogma, right > wing politics and saliva. When Yi Manhui "apologized" for > the infamous Patient 31 hotspot in Daegu, he was wearing a > gold watch from Bak Geunhye, and several prominent > officials in Gyeongsangdo and Daegu were Shincheonji > members: the new United Future Party has yet to make any > statement about the role of Shincheonji; their main > platform has been to target Chinese?people, to complain at > the expense of testing foreigners, and to worry that > Korean nurses may be tending?Chinese patients. From the > outset, the health authorities have been very careful not > to make any distinction between Chinese and Korean > carriers of the virus; the best evidence is that the virus > was first brought by Korean members of the Shincheonji > branch in Wuhan. > > 2. The second, real,?issue will take more than one post to > discuss.?I think many people on this list feel > instinctively that there OUGHT to be some connection > between life after Covid 19 and climate change, but very > few of us can put their finger on why there MUST be--that > is, we all feel its desirability and find it hard to > articulate its precise historical necessity and to explain > how it is connected concretely to the current crisis. > Perhaps that's inevitable--my father likes to point out > how the very mathematical equations you use to model a > shock wave are not the same as non-shock wave equations > before and after. But in China and in South Korea we are > already starting to move beyond the basic social unit of > lock-down, which is the household, and trying to find some > large social unit which will enable more economic?and > social activity?than consumption, isolation, and > self-preservation. That unit has to be larger than the > nuclear family, but it also has to be larger than the > extended family. At the same time, it has to be small > enough to permit the operation of preventive medicine. > > ?In China, before the reform, there really was a unit of > production larger than the family; as John says, it was > the work unit. But even this unit never really replaced > the family in the countryside (where it?formed the basic > unit of production after the collapse of?the communes in > the great famine).?Now, in the cities,?decades of economic > reform have?replaced the work unit with "getihu" (small > businesses)?on the one hand and huge state or foreign run > businesses on the other. Neither of these is really the > right size for "the dance"--that is, the gradual LIFTING > of restrictions which must follow the lockdown, which will > permit limited circulation but?ONLY to the point where the > infection rate starts to rise again, at which point ONLY > those units which are compromised by the virus are shut down. > > In Korea, the situation is comparable, with the added > wrinkle that we are a rather segmentary society, where the > extended family is largely intact, and we are massively > on-line. Curiously, the issue of finding a supra-familial > segment for life after Covid?came up?in our Vygotsky > group. During the lockdown, we are preparing a volume of > the Pedology of the Adolescent that consists of a rather > short chapter on interests, and a much longer one on > concept formation.?We used the word ?? for interest--you > will recognize this word as the antipode of ?;?it is the > Dionysian, exuberant, fun-loving interest as opposed to > the?Appolonian, classical,?logical concept. But of course > Vygotsky rejects this duality--from the Spinozan side, he > insists that concepts too are interested (they are,?Andy > would say, projects) and that interests are > conceptual--hence, in English but not in Korean, we say > "class interest" and "bank interest". > > We are trying to explain the concept of class interest by > analogy with the classroom. During the current pandemic, > it is a classroom interest to reduce class size to the > point where social distancing becomes possible within the > classroom and we can then bring the non-sustainable > solution of on-line classes to an end. Instead, my > university is putting pressure on us to record on-line > classes and store them for permanent use, and of course > many professors and even some high school teachers are > enthusiastic about this (EBS, the educational broadcasting > system, is providing a lot of online content which is > enabling us to move much of public education online for > this semester). This would, of course, allow the > government to fire teachers and essentialy reduce the > whole of education to self-instruction plus testing. It's > in our class(room) interest to defend the integrity of our > classrooms, not least because they DO represent > a?supra-familial unit for life beyond the crisis, one that > will enable more than just lockdown and consumption. I > think it's THIS scalability of the basic social unit that > provides?the necessary link between Covid and climate change. > > David Kellogg > Sangmyung University > > Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal > of/Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: > Phenomenal forms and educational action research'? in/Mind > Culture and Activity// > > https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 > / > / > Some free e-prints available at: > > https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 > > New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's > Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" > > https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 > > > > On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 1:49 AM HENRY SHONERD > > wrote: > > Hi All, > Like Greg, I was struck by Andy?s sense that China may > go back to ?normal? but the neo-liberal ?first" world > is and will be experiencing a profound perizhvanie. > You?d hope it will be for the good. > > In the U.S,, generally, rates of infection are > positively correlated with density of population. For > example, I live in New Mexico, the fifth largest state > in the U.S. with a population of a little over a one > million and the lowest rate of infection?so far. > However, our Navajo live spread out to the west and > north of us, but have very high rates of infection. > Little Zia Pueblo, just an our by car to the north and > west of us, only has about a thousand people, with > eleven confirmed cases. Poverty. In the country as a > whole people of color have relatively higher rates of > infection. Poverty. > > Our governor, Michelle Lujan Grisham (who I am proud > to say is a good friend), has been successful in > pushing baci against Trump?s efforts to punish states > that did not vote for him by being less than > cooperative in providing resources against the > pandemic. She has been using her bully pulpit against > Trump's bloviating. His hot air has got to be an > infectious agent. Most of us are using masks in > public, evidence indicating that it protects OTHERS by > wearing them. Trump prefers NOT to wear a mask. > Consistent with his politics. You can?t make this up. > > Be well, > Henry > >> On Apr 8, 2020, at 9:00 AM, Greg Thompson >> > > wrote: >> >> David, >> >> I wonder if you could say more about your experience >> of the state-based "surveillance" in SK. There are >> lots of different groups in the U.S., both on the >> left and the right, who are up in arms about the >> "tracking" of citizens via credit card and cell phone >> usage. >> >> And it sounds like this is a global concern as Mary's >> report from SA suggests. >> >> Also how interesting how?similar the >> conspiracy?theories are around the globe >> (globalization and the spread of viral ideas?). >> That's world perezhivanie indeed! >> >> -greg >> >> On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 3:08 PM David Kellogg >> > >> wrote: >> >> Helena-- >> >> Situation in China, courtesy my sister-in-law: >> life in Beijing?is pretty much?back to normal at >> least on the face of it. People are going out to >> their work units (but there is more work from >> home than before the crisis).?Classes still >> largely taught from ZOOM. My nephew is in >> Shanghai,?where the situation is somewhat tighter >> (proximity to Wuhan).?Wuhan opened up for real >> yesterday--people can leave (I lived there for >> two years in the mid-eighties, but I can barely >> recognize what I see on the news now....) I have >> students in Chengdu (who attend my class via >> ZOOM). People are mostly shopping on line with >> delivery to the gate of the housing unit rather >> than to their flat (as we do here in Korea). Air >> quality better than it's been in decades. >> >> Situation here in South?Korea: We just extended >> our lockdown for another two weeks. This is in >> response to a few days of new infections over a >> hundred, but the infections are mostly >> (80%)?Koreans from the US and Europe who want to >> live in a place where the medical system has not >> broken down or is not in the process of breaking >> down. There are still some "hotspots" of >> community transmission, but these are almost all >> connected with churches or PC cafes. Schools >> reopen?on the 16th, but only online.?We have >> elections in a week, and there is a lot of >> campaigning going on, including the usual street >> based campaigning (the right wing opposition >> campaigns around the curious notion that the >> government has done absolutely nothing, and the >> government?ignores everybody who is not an?actual >> virus). People shop in stores, and there is no >> panic buying or disruption of supply chains. The >> main changes in economic life seem to have to do >> with transport, and it seems like this too will >> be permanent (electric scooters are everywhere >> now). Bowing instead of shaking hands?is really >> not a bad idea, and coffee-shops?always >> were?over-rated and over-priced.... >> >> But what about you, Helena? (One of the things I >> have learned on this list is that you get more or >> less what you give--people tend to use what you >> write as a model for writing back!) Are you still >> in Vietnam? Your address says Berkeley and your >> email says Illinois--those are three very >> different venues for the virus and the economy. >> Can you give us a brief account of the situation >> in each? >> >> Stay safe, wherever you are! >> >> David Kellogg >> Sangmyung University >> >> Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical >> perusal of/Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky >> and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational >> action research / >> in/Mind Culture and Activity/ >> / >> / >> /https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 >> / >> / >> / >> Some free e-prints available at: >> >> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 >> >> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. >> Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: >> Foundations of Pedology" >> >> https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 >> >> >> >> On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 4:30 AM Martin Packer >> > >> wrote: >> >> Hi Helena, >> >> I share your concerns. And, despite its >> challenges, this situation seems a great >> opportunity to apply our distributed >> expertise(s). I tried to get some discussion >> going in a group concerned with the >> Anthropocene, but people seemed disinclined. >> >> Martin >> >> Here?s the first message that I sent? >> >> The current situation is producing important >> evidence about the probable consequences of >> the strategies proposed to mitigate climate >> change. Satellites are showing significant >> reductions in pollution: >> https://www.space.com/italy-coronavirus-outbreak-response-reduces-emissions-satellite-images.html >> Experts are suggesting that as a result the >> coronavirus may save more lives than it takes: >> https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2020/03/11/coronavirus-lockdown-may-save-more-lives-from-pollution-and-climate-than-from-virus/#4a39bb3c5764 >> So when skeptics ask ?How can you know that >> reducing air travel will help with climate >> change?? there is now clear evidence with >> which to answer them. >> >> Also in China: >> https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/04/811019032/why-chinas-air-has-been-cleaner-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak >> >> At the same time, I am starting to wonder >> whether the current health guidelines >> regarding coronvirus are culturally biased. >> Can they work in ?collectivist? cultures (to >> use the shorthand)? The CDC guidelines, for >> example, include the recommendations to ?Stay >> home when you are sick,? but also that other >> members of the household should ?Avoid close >> contact with people who are sick? and should >> ?Choose a room in your home that can be used >> to separate sick household members from those >> who are healthy. Identify a separate bathroom >> for the sick person to use, if possible.? >> This advice is simply not practicable for >> many households in Colombia. There are not >> enough rooms; there is no second bathroom. In >> addition, many infants and young children >> here are cared for by grandparents, or even >> great-grandparents (many women here have a >> baby when young, so an infant may have a >> grandmother who is in her late 30s and a >> great-grandmother in her late 50s). The >> evidence shows that children don?t become >> very ill, but they do get infected and they >> can infect other people, among whom elderly >> caregivers will be the most at risk. >> So I don?t think social distance and >> auto-quarantine will work in Colombia. >> Consider what the Chinese did: they went >> door-to-door to identify infected family >> members and removed them to massive >> collective quarantine setttings. People in >> the West considered this to be draconian, >> even cruel. But it made sense: much more >> cross-infection occurred in Chinese homes >> than in places like restaurants. >> Unless the authorities can come up with >> strategies that are more appropriate to local >> circumstances and practices, there is likely >> to be a rapid and elevated peak of infections >> in Latin American countries. >> >> And I see there is a related point here, on >> ageism: >> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200313155256.htm >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Apr 7, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Helena Worthen >>> >> > wrote: >>> >>> Hello, XMCA-ers - >>> >>> I don?t remember ever having read that this >>> list was going to shut down or even be >>> allowed to fade away. So now I?m writing, as >>> if in the dark, to the whole list. We?ve now >>> got a major ? maybe ?the? major crisis of >>> the anthropocene on our hands and the >>> distant but connected network represented by >>> the conversations on this list seem to me to >>> be a treasure more precious than gold - and >>> I?m not speaking metaphorically. >>> >>> I am concerned about some of the people who >>> have been pillars and resources on his list, >>> people whom I have reached out to over the >>> years and heard back from with information >>> and perspectives that I would never have >>> been able to access on my own. Where are you >>> now? What are you doing? Are you safe and >>> healthy? Do you have information about >>> friends who are unable to read or respond to >>> this request? >>> >>> I hope to hear some responses to this message. >>> >>> Take care of yourselves, please ? >>> >>> Helena >>> >>> >>> Helena Worthen >>> hworthen@illinois.edu >>> >>> 21 San Mateo Road, Berkeley, CA 94707 >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >> Assistant Professor >> Department of Anthropology >> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >> Brigham Young University >> Provo, UT 84602 >> WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson >> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200409/e3cb0a9a/attachment.html From mcole@ucsd.edu Wed Apr 8 20:39:41 2020 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 20:39:41 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] A preliminary note Message-ID: Dear Colleagues How wonderful it is to see xmca come alive again. Its amazing, really. Locally in my privileged suburban neighbourhood, entirely unexpected, genuinely new forms of sociality are springing up. As an inveterate early morning dog walker, it has been as if all the rains we have been getting (not the dreaded drought we expected in February) have re-mediated relations in a pro-social manner that extended out beyond the neighbourhood into the surrounding town. The common interest ? the common belief that what Beth is experiencing in Brooklyn awaits them and their families. So better start developing some solidarity. And what brought about this change? The INeffciency of neo-liberal Capitalism that indeed is killing people and is doing it in a manner designed by the 1%. Right now. Never mind the miracles of post-industrial modernity. And the poor/powerless/subordinated are getting ground into sausage. Bernie Sanders is being celebrated for having made his program of socialist reform precisely because the bastion of neo-liberal capitalism has revealed itself in a way that everyone recognizes. Now what? Or as they asked in a different time and place, what is to be done? Your note, today, David, caught the MCA board in the middle of a longer note spelling out a variety of changes that MCA is making to confront this second ?shock wave? that has hit our community. A Re-generated XMCA still has some older shock waves to deal with and a lot of in-our-faces wreckage to confront. This crisis is not going away any time real soon. I would like to respond more fully to the questions Greg raised and DAvid responded to so extensively. But no more ethanol in the tank. Thanks, Helen, for your invocation to the life of this fragile community. Like all of you, I will be back as life permits. mike -- Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a landslide. Roy D'Andrade --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200408/833aaa53/attachment.html From Peg.Griffin@att.net Thu Apr 9 13:36:35 2020 From: Peg.Griffin@att.net (Peg Griffin, Ph.D.) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2020 16:36:35 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> <001301d60dcb$0b376430$21a62c90$@att.net> <7F97CF82-25AF-4388-98AC-D6A838CA008F@gmail.com> <000001d60df4$f492efe0$ddb8cfa0$@att.net> Message-ID: <000201d60eae$9ef9d5c0$dced8140$@att.net> Henry, may I ask you to discuss Co-Vid 19 in the Navajo Nation? From news reports the Nation seems to be proactive, trying new and old ways of proceeding. But, in comparison to nearby states, more and deeper problems faced with fewer and less stable resources? DC got robbed in the second bailout bill ? way underfunded. Plans are getting formed and deformed about pushing for fixes in the next bill (now in messes in both House and Senate). Do you know if there are any Navajo plans that DC folk can support, maybe learn from (or at least stop from inadvertently stepping on?) Is staff in Deb Haaland?s office in the HOB a good place to try to find out or ?? A good fantasy about November, Henry. Somehow, it reminds me of the early days in the Fifth Dimension. The children engaged in transformational journeys, taking their avatars through rooms in a table top maze, choosing which of several openings they would use as entry and eventual exit, choosing which of different tasks in the room to do (harder tasks coupled with more choice over which exits from room they could use), collaborating with peers and lovely Big Sisters and Brothers, and there was always the Wizard ?guardian or trickster or sometimes asleep at the wheel. At an exit, avatars transformed and children went to the creature store to pick the token of the transformation to travel with if they chose to enter the 5th D again. But there was also a different world with university and public school calendars and rites of passage. At times for seams important to that world, the children got shirts screen-printed with words ranging from ?I conquered the 5th dimension? ?I barely survived the 5th Dimension? ?I almost survived the 5th Dimension? and so on ?I?m in the middle? ?I?m just starting?? A child reviewed the prior period of time, negotiating which words would be on their shirt. (Of all the weird things in the 5th D, Mike laughs best about the carefully differentiated shirts.) So, how about you and I in the here(s) and now(s)? We make choice after choice after choice and work hard at enough to transform the current elected officials to try to choose better creatures as we exit this iteration of a government and enter again for choices and tasks in the next iteration. Concurrently, we have to keep our eye on the prize of the CoVid 19 pandemic world and survival in it. BTW, I do live inside the Beltway ? 12 blocks north and east of Union Station. The museums, the food, and the HOBs (House Office Buildings) ? as well as the SOBs across the capitol park ? all nearby, familiar sites of camaraderie for efforts, some successful and some not so much. Peg From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 7:52 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? I was born at Mercy Hospital in Washington DC. Do you actually live inside the Beltway? Great museums there and food. Scads of family from both Judy?s and my side. One of the last times I visited there, I went to Michelle?s office: She was our representative at the time. She gets around. I have this fantasy brought on by the pandemic and New Mexico?s Blue (Democratic) sweep in 2018 that brought us three kick-ass women: Governor Michelle...Representative Deborah Halland for Albuquerque and surrounds where we live (I canvassed for her in the primary!)?and Representative Xochi Small to the south. All Democrats. The fantasy is that these historic times, this perizhvanie, this Lev budding, will bear fruit in November that gets us through another narrow place. And we will celebrate. Fitting that Passover is tonight, a celebration of liberation from slavery, and a time when we recognize that we are all really strangers, wherever we live. Yikes! Talk about Biblical dialect! It?s as catching as that Corona bug! Must stay well Henry On Apr 8, 2020, at 4:27 PM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. > wrote: I live in Washington, DC, Henry, but my roots here are by way of LCHC in San Diego which begot xlchc which begot xmca. Don?t know why I switched into a biblical dialect, but not hallucinations, just whimsy. And a little tired this evening. Did you notice how my motif in my last post turned unto motive when I sent it? I think it was Leonti?ev sneaking in. The description of your mask seems dashing! Could Judy have alternative (or ulterior) motive (or motif)? Hmmm, just recognized the 5th Dimension wanting into the lineage recital. Still no hallucination just a few sips of a nice Tuscan blend? Peg From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [ mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 5:14 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity < xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Hey Peg! Yes, I will tell Governor Michelle you?re rooting for her from where you and yours are at! Please forgive my senior moment, but where do YOU live? My wife Judy figured out how to make a mask from a bandana and two hair ties. Like I?m ready to rob the stage coach, full of ppe (personal protective equipment).:) I saw a cartoon of Trump and his underlings at one of his you-can?t-make-it-up briefings. They are wearing masks that cover nose and mouth. Trump has a Lone Ranger mask. Here?s a link for those short on Americana: https://www.pinterest.com/robertharmon311/lone-ranger-mask-patterns-for-save-ranger-challeng/ Stay safe and well! Henry On Apr 8, 2020, at 11:27 AM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. < Peg.Griffin@att.net> wrote: Henry, please tell your governor/friend, Michelle Lujan Grisham, ?We see her, we hear her, we love her, and we know we need her.? Groups here that made good use of allies before the pandemic are making good, well-planned use of us now, especially for those in the shadows, by necessity or oversight, to address basic food and medical insecurity. And thank you, too, Henry and others on xmca. Relatively healthy (AKA no Co-vid19 that we know of and well masked ? my favorite right now is an easily washed and bleached homemade one with a blue lamb motive ? anyone need a pdf for making adult or child masks, with or without hepa-filters?) and safe, Peg From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [ mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 12:48 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity < xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Hi All, Like Greg, I was struck by Andy?s sense that China may go back to ?normal? but the neo-liberal ?first" world is and will be experiencing a profound perizhvanie. You?d hope it will be for the good. In the U.S,, generally, rates of infection are positively correlated with density of population. For example, I live in New Mexico, the fifth largest state in the U.S. with a population of a little over a one million and the lowest rate of infection?so far. However, our Navajo live spread out to the west and north of us, but have very high rates of infection. Little Zia Pueblo, just an our by car to the north and west of us, only has about a thousand people, with eleven confirmed cases. Poverty. In the country as a whole people of color have relatively higher rates of infection. Poverty. Our governor, Michelle Lujan Grisham (who I am proud to say is a good friend), has been successful in pushing baci against Trump?s efforts to punish states that did not vote for him by being less than cooperative in providing resources against the pandemic. She has been using her bully pulpit against Trump's bloviating. His hot air has got to be an infectious agent. Most of us are using masks in public, evidence indicating that it protects OTHERS by wearing them. Trump prefers NOT to wear a mask. Consistent with his politics. You can?t make this up. Be well, Henry On Apr 8, 2020, at 9:00 AM, Greg Thompson < greg.a.thompson@gmail.com> wrote: David, I wonder if you could say more about your experience of the state-based "surveillance" in SK. There are lots of different groups in the U.S., both on the left and the right, who are up in arms about the "tracking" of citizens via credit card and cell phone usage. And it sounds like this is a global concern as Mary's report from SA suggests. Also how interesting how similar the conspiracy theories are around the globe (globalization and the spread of viral ideas?). That's world perezhivanie indeed! -greg On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 3:08 PM David Kellogg < dkellogg60@gmail.com> wrote: Helena-- Situation in China, courtesy my sister-in-law: life in Beijing is pretty much back to normal at least on the face of it. People are going out to their work units (but there is more work from home than before the crisis). Classes still largely taught from ZOOM. My nephew is in Shanghai, where the situation is somewhat tighter (proximity to Wuhan). Wuhan opened up for real yesterday--people can leave (I lived there for two years in the mid-eighties, but I can barely recognize what I see on the news now....) I have students in Chengdu (who attend my class via ZOOM). People are mostly shopping on line with delivery to the gate of the housing unit rather than to their flat (as we do here in Korea). Air quality better than it's been in decades. Situation here in South Korea: We just extended our lockdown for another two weeks. This is in response to a few days of new infections over a hundred, but the infections are mostly (80%) Koreans from the US and Europe who want to live in a place where the medical system has not broken down or is not in the process of breaking down. There are still some "hotspots" of community transmission, but these are almost all connected with churches or PC cafes. Schools reopen on the 16th, but only online. We have elections in a week, and there is a lot of campaigning going on, including the usual street based campaigning (the right wing opposition campaigns around the curious notion that the government has done absolutely nothing, and the government ignores everybody who is not an actual virus). People shop in stores, and there is no panic buying or disruption of supply chains. The main changes in economic life seem to have to do with transport, and it seems like this too will be permanent (electric scooters are everywhere now). Bowing instead of shaking hands is really not a bad idea, and coffee-shops always were over-rated and over-priced.... But what about you, Helena? (One of the things I have learned on this list is that you get more or less what you give--people tend to use what you write as a model for writing back!) Are you still in Vietnam? Your address says Berkeley and your email says Illinois--those are three very different venues for the virus and the economy. Can you give us a brief account of the situation in each? Stay safe, wherever you are! David Kellogg Sangmyung University Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational action research in Mind Culture and Activity https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 Some free e-prints available at: https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 4:30 AM Martin Packer < mpacker@cantab.net> wrote: Hi Helena, I share your concerns. And, despite its challenges, this situation seems a great opportunity to apply our distributed expertise(s). I tried to get some discussion going in a group concerned with the Anthropocene, but people seemed disinclined. Martin Here?s the first message that I sent? The current situation is producing important evidence about the probable consequences of the strategies proposed to mitigate climate change. Satellites are showing significant reductions in pollution: https://www.space.com/italy-coronavirus-outbreak-response-reduces-emissions-satellite-images.html Experts are suggesting that as a result the coronavirus may save more lives than it takes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2020/03/11/coronavirus-lockdown-may-save-more-lives-from-pollution-and-climate-than-from-virus/#4a39bb3c5764 So when skeptics ask ?How can you know that reducing air travel will help with climate change?? there is now clear evidence with which to answer them. Also in China: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/04/811019032/why-chinas-air-has-been-cleaner-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak At the same time, I am starting to wonder whether the current health guidelines regarding coronvirus are culturally biased. Can they work in ?collectivist? cultures (to use the shorthand)? The CDC guidelines, for example, include the recommendations to ?Stay home when you are sick,? but also that other members of the household should ?Avoid close contact with people who are sick? and should ?Choose a room in your home that can be used to separate sick household members from those who are healthy. Identify a separate bathroom for the sick person to use, if possible.? This advice is simply not practicable for many households in Colombia. There are not enough rooms; there is no second bathroom. In addition, many infants and young children here are cared for by grandparents, or even great-grandparents (many women here have a baby when young, so an infant may have a grandmother who is in her late 30s and a great-grandmother in her late 50s). The evidence shows that children don?t become very ill, but they do get infected and they can infect other people, among whom elderly caregivers will be the most at risk. So I don?t think social distance and auto-quarantine will work in Colombia. Consider what the Chinese did: they went door-to-door to identify infected family members and removed them to massive collective quarantine setttings. People in the West considered this to be draconian, even cruel. But it made sense: much more cross-infection occurred in Chinese homes than in places like restaurants. Unless the authorities can come up with strategies that are more appropriate to local circumstances and practices, there is likely to be a rapid and elevated peak of infections in Latin American countries. And I see there is a related point here, on ageism: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200313155256.htm On Apr 7, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Helena Worthen < helenaworthen@gmail.com> wrote: Hello, XMCA-ers - I don?t remember ever having read that this list was going to shut down or even be allowed to fade away. So now I?m writing, as if in the dark, to the whole list. We?ve now got a major ? maybe ?the? major crisis of the anthropocene on our hands and the distant but connected network represented by the conversations on this list seem to me to be a treasure more precious than gold - and I?m not speaking metaphorically. I am concerned about some of the people who have been pillars and resources on his list, people whom I have reached out to over the years and heard back from with information and perspectives that I would never have been able to access on my own. Where are you now? What are you doing? Are you safe and healthy? Do you have information about friends who are unable to read or respond to this request? I hope to hear some responses to this message. Take care of yourselves, please ? Helena Helena Worthen hworthen@illinois.edu 21 San Mateo Road, Berkeley, CA 94707 -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200409/2d329997/attachment.html From dkellogg60@gmail.com Thu Apr 9 16:39:02 2020 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 08:39:02 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> Message-ID: Dear Helena: A book on contingency? In higher education? Details, please. What color will it be? Who is on the cover? What will the ink and paper smell like? I jest. But the longer we pursue these online classes, the more I worry that a transitional structure risks becoming permanent (which is LSV's definition of a developmental disorder!). I guess that the SARS or MERS epidemic left us no antibodies, no immunity and not much infrastructure. The death rate was high but the infection rate was so low that we never developed a vaccine or even a decent preventive scheme (except for here in Korea). And then we were sitting ducks. Something similar seems to have happened with Basil Bernstein/Bill Labov. Bernstein thought that some kids come from families where individuals are unique and ineffable, but roles are interchangeable (e.g. Mom can be a big sister, your dad can be a friend). Other kids come from families where things were the other way around. Ruqaiya showed that, linguistically, this is true; in some families kids use their parents' given names, and in others a role is named followed by a string of gendered pronouns. I think one of the reasons why our classrooms in Korea are relatively successful with both types is that classroom discourse does tend to the latter rather than the former. The fever that the debate stirred up subsided, and everybody forgot about it, or assumed that the side that made the biggest stink won. So I am worried that we are sitting ducks again. The learners whose learning is highly contingent on generalized perceptions and interpersonal meanings are going to get poorer and poorer, and those who have easy access to purely verbal meanings are going to get richer and richer. The right wing narrative will be that the lower orders of our society can't make use of online learning because they are just not good at disciplining their attention. Of course, attentional control is a scarce resource (and one that is rather more easily husbanded when you are not working on an assembly line). The left wing narrative will be that it shouldn't matter. The technocratic wing will insist that with infinite bandwidth it can't. But what if it does matter? In my on-line classes only two students out of ten have a camera, and only half of them even have a microphone.. And this is Korea! I think of it as being able to think in exchange values and not just use values. Speaking of which. Is eighteen dollars a lot or a little? I mean, for three cukes, four toms, and a bag of romaine? David Kellogg Sangmyung University Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of *Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational action research' in Mind Culture and Activity* https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 Some free e-prints available at: https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 7:10 AM Helena Worthen wrote: > Hi, David ? on this list I use my academic U of Illinois email, which > still works, but we don?t live there ? we left Illinois in 2010. Artin > Goncu just responded in this list ? maybe he can tell us what he sees in > Illinois. Artin, you?re in Chicago, aren?t you? > > We left Viet Nam about a year ago. The labor law there was changing > (pulling more power into the center, but also strenthening local > representation) and our department was changing to become more of a HR and > Business Administration department. I don?t know if Uyen or Dinh ever > joined this list; they participated in the CHAT Re-Gen discussions, Uyen > (Sally) as a student in HoChiMinh City and Dinh from his afterschool > program (based on Vygotskian concepts) in Phan Rang. They might speak up if > they can ?I?ll nudge them by copying them. > > Joe and I are in a bubble in Berkeley, CA in an old residential > neighborhood with lots of walking paths and good fruit and vegetable > stores. We just did a 3rd draft of our book on contingency in higher ed. > We?ve been touched by the wildfires (one county to the north) that covered > us with stinky smoke for a couple of weeks last fall, and by the various > droughts that resulted in water rationing, etc. but these were all > geographically local and we could walk or drive away from them and pretend > it didn?t really happen. As compared to this. I swing back and forth > between feeling joyful to see deer in the street and hear birds singing and > other signs of less traffic and pollution ? and on the other hand, becoming > aware of two kinds of grief, one because of individuals who have died or > who are vulnerable and probably will die, the second because of the > challenge of imagining what kind of world the next generation will live > in, and what will be lost to them because we were never able to communicate > it well enough. I find myself imagining the emotions of Jewish families in > Europe as the menace of facism became clearer, and those of the indigenous > people of California ? the Miwok, for example, and the Chochenyo, who lived > right here where I am now ? and saw their languages disappearing as their > population was killed and dispersed. > > This second kind of grief seems to be something people can talk about - > it?s collective, cultural. Not unrelated to this list! > > Finally, David, since you encouraged me to write: yesterday our son-in-law > went grocery shopping for us at an enormous food emporium and brought home > three large cucmbers, four ripe tomatoes of middle size, and a plastic bag > of hearts of romaine. How much did it cost? $18.00. > > With best wishes to all ? Helena Worthen > helenaworthen@gmail.com > hworthen@illinois.edu > > > > > On Apr 7, 2020, at 2:02 PM, David Kellogg wrote: > > Helena-- > > Situation in China, courtesy my sister-in-law: life in Beijing is pretty > much back to normal at least on the face of it. People are going out to > their work units (but there is more work from home than before the > crisis). Classes still largely taught from ZOOM. My nephew is in > Shanghai, where the situation is somewhat tighter (proximity to > Wuhan). Wuhan opened up for real yesterday--people can leave (I lived there > for two years in the mid-eighties, but I can barely recognize what I see on > the news now....) I have students in Chengdu (who attend my class via > ZOOM). People are mostly shopping on line with delivery to the gate of the > housing unit rather than to their flat (as we do here in Korea). Air > quality better than it's been in decades. > > Situation here in South Korea: We just extended our lockdown for another > two weeks. This is in response to a few days of new infections over a > hundred, but the infections are mostly (80%) Koreans from the US and Europe > who want to live in a place where the medical system has not broken down or > is not in the process of breaking down. There are still some "hotspots" of > community transmission, but these are almost all connected with churches or > PC cafes. Schools reopen on the 16th, but only online. We have elections in > a week, and there is a lot of campaigning going on, including the usual > street based campaigning (the right wing opposition campaigns around the > curious notion that the government has done absolutely nothing, and the > government ignores everybody who is not an actual virus). People shop in > stores, and there is no panic buying or disruption of supply chains. The > main changes in economic life seem to have to do with transport, and it > seems like this too will be permanent (electric scooters are everywhere > now). Bowing instead of shaking hands is really not a bad idea, and > coffee-shops always were over-rated and over-priced.... > > But what about you, Helena? (One of the things I have learned on this list > is that you get more or less what you give--people tend to use what you > write as a model for writing back!) Are you still in Vietnam? Your address > says Berkeley and your email says Illinois--those are three very different > venues for the virus and the economy. Can you give us a brief account of > the situation in each? > > Stay safe, wherever you are! > > David Kellogg > Sangmyung University > > Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of *Critical > Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational > action research * > in *Mind Culture and Activity* > > > *https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 > * > > Some free e-prints available at: > > > https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 > > New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works > Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" > > https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 > > > > On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 4:30 AM Martin Packer wrote: > >> Hi Helena, >> >> I share your concerns. And, despite its challenges, this situation seems >> a great opportunity to apply our distributed expertise(s). I tried to get >> some discussion going in a group concerned with the Anthropocene, but >> people seemed disinclined. >> >> Martin >> >> Here?s the first message that I sent? >> >> The current situation is producing important evidence about the probable >> consequences of the strategies proposed to mitigate climate change. >> Satellites are showing significant reductions in pollution: >> >> https://www.space.com/italy-coronavirus-outbreak-response-reduces-emissions-satellite-images.html >> Experts are suggesting that as a result the coronavirus may save more >> lives than it takes: >> >> https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2020/03/11/coronavirus-lockdown-may-save-more-lives-from-pollution-and-climate-than-from-virus/#4a39bb3c5764 >> So when skeptics ask ?How can you know that reducing air travel will help >> with climate change?? there is now clear evidence with which to answer them. >> >> Also in China: >> >> https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/04/811019032/why-chinas-air-has-been-cleaner-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak >> >> At the same time, I am starting to wonder whether the current health >> guidelines regarding coronvirus are culturally biased. Can they work in >> ?collectivist? cultures (to use the shorthand)? The CDC guidelines, for >> example, include the recommendations to ?Stay home when you are sick,? but >> also that other members of the household should ?Avoid close contact with >> people who are sick? and should ?Choose a room in your home that can be >> used to separate sick household members from those who are healthy. >> Identify a separate bathroom for the sick person to use, if possible.? >> This advice is simply not practicable for many households in Colombia. >> There are not enough rooms; there is no second bathroom. In addition, many >> infants and young children here are cared for by grandparents, or even >> great-grandparents (many women here have a baby when young, so an infant >> may have a grandmother who is in her late 30s and a great-grandmother in >> her late 50s). The evidence shows that children don?t become very ill, but >> they do get infected and they can infect other people, among whom elderly >> caregivers will be the most at risk. >> So I don?t think social distance and auto-quarantine will work in >> Colombia. Consider what the Chinese did: they went door-to-door to identify >> infected family members and removed them to massive collective quarantine >> setttings. People in the West considered this to be draconian, even cruel. >> But it made sense: much more cross-infection occurred in Chinese homes than >> in places like restaurants. >> Unless the authorities can come up with strategies that are more >> appropriate to local circumstances and practices, there is likely to be a >> rapid and elevated peak of infections in Latin American countries. >> >> And I see there is a related point here, on ageism: >> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200313155256.htm >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Apr 7, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Helena Worthen >> wrote: >> >> Hello, XMCA-ers - >> >> I don?t remember ever having read that this list was going to shut down >> or even be allowed to fade away. So now I?m writing, as if in the dark, to >> the whole list. We?ve now got a major ? maybe ?the? major crisis of the >> anthropocene on our hands and the distant but connected network represented >> by the conversations on this list seem to me to be a treasure more precious >> than gold - and I?m not speaking metaphorically. >> >> I am concerned about some of the people who have been pillars and >> resources on his list, people whom I have reached out to over the years and >> heard back from with information and perspectives that I would never have >> been able to access on my own. Where are you now? What are you doing? Are >> you safe and healthy? Do you have information about friends who are unable >> to read or respond to this request? >> >> I hope to hear some responses to this message. >> >> Take care of yourselves, please ? >> >> Helena >> >> >> Helena Worthen >> hworthen@illinois.edu >> 21 San Mateo Road, Berkeley, CA 94707 >> >> >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200410/c1732a36/attachment.html From hshonerd@gmail.com Thu Apr 9 21:05:09 2020 From: hshonerd@gmail.com (HENRY SHONERD) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2020 22:05:09 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: <000201d60eae$9ef9d5c0$dced8140$@att.net> References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> <001301d60dcb$0b376430$21a62c90$@att.net> <7F97CF82-25AF-4388-98AC-D6A838CA008F@gmail.com> <000001d60df4$f492efe0$ddb8cfa0$@att.net> <000201d60eae$9ef9d5c0$dced8140$@att.net> Message-ID: <62CFE8B1-276D-4C4C-90CF-C1E3C3352418@gmail.com> Peg, I really don?t know anymore about life on the Rez now than what I read on line, what I have heard on Native America Calling on our local public radio station KUNM and what I hear from my Navajo Family near Shiprock. So far, no one in my family there is sick. I have no insider information that might help pull the right strings in DC. Deb Haaland sends out regular bulletins describing what she is doing to benefit all New Mexicans, no specific mention of what?s happening on the Navajo. You know more about the bills than I do! Henry > On Apr 9, 2020, at 2:36 PM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. wrote: > > Henry, may I ask you to discuss Co-Vid 19 in the Navajo Nation? From news reports the Nation seems to be proactive, trying new and old ways of proceeding. But, in comparison to nearby states, more and deeper problems faced with fewer and less stable resources? DC got robbed in the second bailout bill ? way underfunded. Plans are getting formed and deformed about pushing for fixes in the next bill (now in messes in both House and Senate). Do you know if there are any Navajo plans that DC folk can support, maybe learn from (or at least stop from inadvertently stepping on?) Is staff in Deb Haaland?s office in the HOB a good place to try to find out or ?? > > A good fantasy about November, Henry. Somehow, it reminds me of the early days in the Fifth Dimension. The children engaged in transformational journeys, taking their avatars through rooms in a table top maze, choosing which of several openings they would use as entry and eventual exit, choosing which of different tasks in the room to do (harder tasks coupled with more choice over which exits from room they could use), collaborating with peers and lovely Big Sisters and Brothers, and there was always the Wizard ?guardian or trickster or sometimes asleep at the wheel. At an exit, avatars transformed and children went to the creature store to pick the token of the transformation to travel with if they chose to enter the 5th D again. > > But there was also a different world with university and public school calendars and rites of passage. At times for seams important to that world, the children got shirts screen-printed with words ranging from ?I conquered the 5thdimension? ?I barely survived the 5th Dimension? ?I almost survived the 5th Dimension? and so on ?I?m in the middle? ?I?m just starting?? A child reviewed the prior period of time, negotiating which words would be on their shirt. (Of all the weird things in the 5th D, Mike laughs best about the carefully differentiated shirts.) > > So, how about you and I in the here(s) and now(s)? We make choice after choice after choice and work hard at enough to transform the current elected officials to try to choose better creatures as we exit this iteration of a government and enter again for choices and tasks in the next iteration. Concurrently, we have to keep our eye on the prize of the CoVid 19 pandemic world and survival in it. > > BTW, I do live inside the Beltway ? 12 blocks north and east of Union Station. The museums, the food, and the HOBs (House Office Buildings) ? as well as the SOBs across the capitol park ? all nearby, familiar sites of camaraderie for efforts, some successful and some not so much. > > Peg > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu ] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD > Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 7:52 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? > > I was born at Mercy Hospital in Washington DC. Do you actually live inside the Beltway? Great museums there and food. Scads of family from both Judy?s and my side. One of the last times I visited there, I went to Michelle?s office: She was our representative at the time. She gets around. > > I have this fantasy brought on by the pandemic and New Mexico?s Blue (Democratic) sweep in 2018 that brought us three kick-ass women: Governor Michelle...Representative Deborah Halland for Albuquerque and surrounds where we live (I canvassed for her in the primary!)?and Representative Xochi Small to the south. All Democrats. The fantasy is that these historic times, this perizhvanie, this Lev budding, will bear fruit in November that gets us through another narrow place. And we will celebrate. Fitting that Passover is tonight, a celebration of liberation from slavery, and a time when we recognize that we are all really strangers, wherever we live. > > Yikes! Talk about Biblical dialect! It?s as catching as that Corona bug! > > Must stay well > Henry > > > > > >> On Apr 8, 2020, at 4:27 PM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. > wrote: >> >> I live in Washington, DC, Henry, but my roots here are by way of LCHC in San Diego which begot xlchc which begot xmca. Don?t know why I switched into a biblical dialect, but not hallucinations, just whimsy. And a little tired this evening. >> Did you notice how my motif in my last post turned unto motive when I sent it? I think it was Leonti?ev sneaking in. >> The description of your mask seems dashing! Could Judy have alternative (or ulterior) motive (or motif)? >> Hmmm, just recognized the 5th Dimension wanting into the lineage recital. Still no hallucination just a few sips of a nice Tuscan blend? >> Peg >> >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu ] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD >> Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 5:14 PM >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? >> >> Hey Peg! >> Yes, I will tell Governor Michelle you?re rooting for her from where you and yours are at! Please forgive my senior moment, but where do YOU live? >> >> My wife Judy figured out how to make a mask from a bandana and two hair ties. Like I?m ready to rob the stage coach, full of ppe (personal protective equipment).:) I saw a cartoon of Trump and his underlings at one of his you-can?t-make-it-up briefings. They are wearing masks that cover nose and mouth. Trump has a Lone Ranger mask. Here?s a link for those short on Americana: >> https://www.pinterest.com/robertharmon311/lone-ranger-mask-patterns-for-save-ranger-challeng/ >> >> Stay safe and well! >> Henry >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Apr 8, 2020, at 11:27 AM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. > wrote: >>> >>> Henry, please tell your governor/friend, Michelle Lujan Grisham, ?We see her, we hear her, we love her, and we know we need her.? >>> >>> Groups here that made good use of allies before the pandemic are making good, well-planned use of us now, especially for those in the shadows, by necessity or oversight, to address basic food and medical insecurity. >>> >>> And thank you, too, Henry and others on xmca. >>> >>> Relatively healthy (AKA no Co-vid19 that we know of and well masked ? my favorite right now is an easily washed and bleached homemade one with a blue lamb motive ? anyone need a pdf for making adult or child masks, with or without hepa-filters?) and safe, >>> Peg >>> >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu ] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 12:48 PM >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? >>> >>> Hi All, >>> Like Greg, I was struck by Andy?s sense that China may go back to ?normal? but the neo-liberal ?first" world is and will be experiencing a profound perizhvanie. You?d hope it will be for the good. >>> >>> In the U.S,, generally, rates of infection are positively correlated with density of population. For example, I live in New Mexico, the fifth largest state in the U.S. with a population of a little over a one million and the lowest rate of infection?so far. However, our Navajo live spread out to the west and north of us, but have very high rates of infection. Little Zia Pueblo, just an our by car to the north and west of us, only has about a thousand people, with eleven confirmed cases. Poverty. In the country as a whole people of color have relatively higher rates of infection. Poverty. >>> >>> Our governor, Michelle Lujan Grisham (who I am proud to say is a good friend), has been successful in pushing baci against Trump?s efforts to punish states that did not vote for him by being less than cooperative in providing resources against the pandemic. She has been using her bully pulpit against Trump's bloviating. His hot air has got to be an infectious agent. Most of us are using masks in public, evidence indicating that it protects OTHERS by wearing them. Trump prefers NOT to wear a mask. Consistent with his politics. You can?t make this up. >>> >>> Be well, >>> Henry >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Apr 8, 2020, at 9:00 AM, Greg Thompson > wrote: >>>> >>>> David, >>>> >>>> I wonder if you could say more about your experience of the state-based "surveillance" in SK. There are lots of different groups in the U.S., both on the left and the right, who are up in arms about the "tracking" of citizens via credit card and cell phone usage. >>>> >>>> And it sounds like this is a global concern as Mary's report from SA suggests. >>>> >>>> Also how interesting how similar the conspiracy theories are around the globe (globalization and the spread of viral ideas?). That's world perezhivanie indeed! >>>> >>>> -greg >>>> >>>> On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 3:08 PM David Kellogg > wrote: >>>>> Helena-- >>>>> >>>>> Situation in China, courtesy my sister-in-law: life in Beijing is pretty much back to normal at least on the face of it. People are going out to their work units (but there is more work from home than before the crisis). Classes still largely taught from ZOOM. My nephew is in Shanghai, where the situation is somewhat tighter (proximity to Wuhan). Wuhan opened up for real yesterday--people can leave (I lived there for two years in the mid-eighties, but I can barely recognize what I see on the news now....) I have students in Chengdu (who attend my class via ZOOM). People are mostly shopping on line with delivery to the gate of the housing unit rather than to their flat (as we do here in Korea). Air quality better than it's been in decades. >>>>> >>>>> Situation here in South Korea: We just extended our lockdown for another two weeks. This is in response to a few days of new infections over a hundred, but the infections are mostly (80%) Koreans from the US and Europe who want to live in a place where the medical system has not broken down or is not in the process of breaking down. There are still some "hotspots" of community transmission, but these are almost all connected with churches or PC cafes. Schools reopen on the 16th, but only online. We have elections in a week, and there is a lot of campaigning going on, including the usual street based campaigning (the right wing opposition campaigns around the curious notion that the government has done absolutely nothing, and the government ignores everybody who is not an actual virus). People shop in stores, and there is no panic buying or disruption of supply chains. The main changes in economic life seem to have to do with transport, and it seems like this too will be permanent (electric scooters are everywhere now). Bowing instead of shaking hands is really not a bad idea, and coffee-shops always were over-rated and over-priced.... >>>>> >>>>> But what about you, Helena? (One of the things I have learned on this list is that you get more or less what you give--people tend to use what you write as a model for writing back!) Are you still in Vietnam? Your address says Berkeley and your email says Illinois--those are three very different venues for the virus and the economy. Can you give us a brief account of the situation in each? >>>>> >>>>> Stay safe, wherever you are! >>>>> >>>>> David Kellogg >>>>> Sangmyung University >>>>> >>>>> Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational action research >>>>> in Mind Culture and Activity >>>>> >>>>> https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 >>>>> >>>>> Some free e-prints available at: >>>>> >>>>> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 >>>>> >>>>> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" >>>>> >>>>> https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 4:30 AM Martin Packer > wrote: >>>>>> Hi Helena, >>>>>> >>>>>> I share your concerns. And, despite its challenges, this situation seems a great opportunity to apply our distributed expertise(s). I tried to get some discussion going in a group concerned with the Anthropocene, but people seemed disinclined. >>>>>> >>>>>> Martin >>>>>> >>>>>> Here?s the first message that I sent? >>>>>> >>>>>> The current situation is producing important evidence about the probable consequences of the strategies proposed to mitigate climate change. Satellites are showing significant reductions in pollution: >>>>>> https://www.space.com/italy-coronavirus-outbreak-response-reduces-emissions-satellite-images.html >>>>>> Experts are suggesting that as a result the coronavirus may save more lives than it takes: >>>>>> https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2020/03/11/coronavirus-lockdown-may-save-more-lives-from-pollution-and-climate-than-from-virus/#4a39bb3c5764 >>>>>> So when skeptics ask ?How can you know that reducing air travel will help with climate change?? there is now clear evidence with which to answer them. >>>>>> >>>>>> Also in China: >>>>>> https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/04/811019032/why-chinas-air-has-been-cleaner-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak >>>>>> >>>>>> At the same time, I am starting to wonder whether the current health guidelines regarding coronvirus are culturally biased. Can they work in ?collectivist? cultures (to use the shorthand)? The CDC guidelines, for example, include the recommendations to ?Stay home when you are sick,? but also that other members of the household should ?Avoid close contact with people who are sick? and should ?Choose a room in your home that can be used to separate sick household members from those who are healthy. Identify a separate bathroom for the sick person to use, if possible.? >>>>>> This advice is simply not practicable for many households in Colombia. There are not enough rooms; there is no second bathroom. In addition, many infants and young children here are cared for by grandparents, or even great-grandparents (many women here have a baby when young, so an infant may have a grandmother who is in her late 30s and a great-grandmother in her late 50s). The evidence shows that children don?t become very ill, but they do get infected and they can infect other people, among whom elderly caregivers will be the most at risk. >>>>>> So I don?t think social distance and auto-quarantine will work in Colombia. Consider what the Chinese did: they went door-to-door to identify infected family members and removed them to massive collective quarantine setttings. People in the West considered this to be draconian, even cruel. But it made sense: much more cross-infection occurred in Chinese homes than in places like restaurants. >>>>>> Unless the authorities can come up with strategies that are more appropriate to local circumstances and practices, there is likely to be a rapid and elevated peak of infections in Latin American countries. >>>>>> >>>>>> And I see there is a related point here, on ageism: >>>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200313155256.htm >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Apr 7, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Helena Worthen > wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello, XMCA-ers - >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I don?t remember ever having read that this list was going to shut down or even be allowed to fade away. So now I?m writing, as if in the dark, to the whole list. We?ve now got a major ? maybe ?the? major crisis of the anthropocene on our hands and the distant but connected network represented by the conversations on this list seem to me to be a treasure more precious than gold - and I?m not speaking metaphorically. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am concerned about some of the people who have been pillars and resources on his list, people whom I have reached out to over the years and heard back from with information and perspectives that I would never have been able to access on my own. Where are you now? What are you doing? Are you safe and healthy? Do you have information about friends who are unable to read or respond to this request? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I hope to hear some responses to this message. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Take care of yourselves, please ? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Helena >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Helena Worthen >>>>>>> hworthen@illinois.edu >>>>>>> 21 San Mateo Road, Berkeley, CA 94707 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>>> Assistant Professor >>>> Department of Anthropology >>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >>>> Brigham Young University >>>> Provo, UT 84602 >>>> WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson >>>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200409/856dfcfc/attachment.html From rein.raud@tlu.ee Fri Apr 10 01:28:04 2020 From: rein.raud@tlu.ee (Rein Raud) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 11:28:04 +0300 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: <62CFE8B1-276D-4C4C-90CF-C1E3C3352418@gmail.com> References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail .com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-B F8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B 8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5 DF3@cantab.net> <001301d60dcb$0b376430$21a 62c90$@att.net> <7F97CF82-25AF-4388-98AC-D6A838CA008F@gmail.com> <000001d60df 4$f492efe0$ddb8cfa0$@att.net> <000201d60eae$9ef9d5c0$dced8140$@att.net> <62CFE8B1-276D-4C4C-90CF-C1E3C3352418@gmail.com> Message-ID: <6F3B64BE-7924-4166-A72C-D25513F262E5@tlu.ee> Hi everyone, Sorry for not having been very active lately, as I?ve been submerged in lots of reading and writing, and the situation with the crisis has created an even more conducive atmosphere for that. In Estonia, the situation is more or less under control, and social distancing has been in our second nature for ages, although now that it is encouraged, it is suddenly no longer so natural. Stay safe and keep up the good work! With best wishes, Rein ********************************************** Rein Raud Professor of Asian and Cultural Studies, Tallinn University Uus-Sadama 5, Tallinn 10120 Estonia www.reinraud.com ?Meaning in Action: Outline of an Integral?Theory of Culture?(Polity 2016) ?Practices of Selfhood? (with Zygmunt?Bauman, Polity 2015) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200410/1dd06490/attachment.html From ewall@umich.edu Fri Apr 10 09:34:10 2020 From: ewall@umich.edu (Edward Wall) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 11:34:10 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> Message-ID: <18D192C8-5DFC-4941-912B-0406CD4C60D6@umich.edu> Online learning is indeed a contagion and has been incubating here in the West for some time. Some of my colleagues who work in the educational system with what is termed the ?grey? area (more than often reflecting socioeconomics) are more than concerned with the recent turn of events. Ed Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is. > On Apr 9, 2020, at 6:39 PM, David Kellogg wrote: > > Dear Helena: > > A book on contingency? In higher education? Details, please. What color will it be? Who is on the cover? What will the ink and paper smell like? > > I jest. But the longer we pursue these online classes, the more I worry that a transitional structure risks becoming permanent (which is LSV's definition of a developmental disorder!). > > I guess that the SARS or MERS epidemic left us no antibodies, no immunity and not much infrastructure. The death rate was high but the infection rate was so low that we never developed a vaccine or even a decent preventive scheme (except for here in Korea). And then we were sitting ducks. > > Something similar seems to have happened with Basil Bernstein/Bill Labov. Bernstein thought that some kids come from families where individuals are unique and ineffable, but roles are interchangeable (e.g. Mom can be a big sister, your dad can be a friend). Other kids come from families where things were the other way around. Ruqaiya showed that, linguistically, this is true; in some families kids use their parents' given names, and in others a role is named followed by a string of gendered pronouns. I think one of the reasons why our classrooms in Korea are relatively successful with both types is that classroom discourse does tend to the latter rather than the former. The fever that the debate stirred up subsided, and everybody forgot about it, or assumed that the side that made the biggest stink won. > > So I am worried that we are sitting ducks again. The learners whose learning is highly contingent on generalized perceptions and interpersonal meanings are going to get poorer and poorer, and those who have easy access to purely verbal meanings are going to get richer and richer. The right wing narrative will be that the lower orders of our society can't make use of online learning because they are just not good at disciplining their attention. Of course, attentional control is a scarce resource (and one that is rather more easily husbanded when you are not working on an assembly line). The left wing narrative will be that it shouldn't matter. The technocratic wing will insist that with infinite bandwidth it can't. > > But what if it does matter? In my on-line classes only two students out of ten have a camera, and only half of them even have a microphone.. And this is Korea! > > I think of it as being able to think in exchange values and not just use values. Speaking of which. Is eighteen dollars a lot or a little? I mean, for three cukes, four toms, and a bag of romaine? > > David Kellogg > Sangmyung University > > Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational action research' in Mind Culture and Activity > > https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 > > Some free e-prints available at: > > https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 > > New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" > > https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 > > > On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 7:10 AM Helena Worthen > wrote: > Hi, David ? on this list I use my academic U of Illinois email, which still works, but we don?t live there ? we left Illinois in 2010. Artin Goncu just responded in this list ? maybe he can tell us what he sees in Illinois. Artin, you?re in Chicago, aren?t you? > > We left Viet Nam about a year ago. The labor law there was changing (pulling more power into the center, but also strenthening local representation) and our department was changing to become more of a HR and Business Administration department. I don?t know if Uyen or Dinh ever joined this list; they participated in the CHAT Re-Gen discussions, Uyen (Sally) as a student in HoChiMinh City and Dinh from his afterschool program (based on Vygotskian concepts) in Phan Rang. They might speak up if they can ?I?ll nudge them by copying them. > > Joe and I are in a bubble in Berkeley, CA in an old residential neighborhood with lots of walking paths and good fruit and vegetable stores. We just did a 3rd draft of our book on contingency in higher ed. We?ve been touched by the wildfires (one county to the north) that covered us with stinky smoke for a couple of weeks last fall, and by the various droughts that resulted in water rationing, etc. but these were all geographically local and we could walk or drive away from them and pretend it didn?t really happen. As compared to this. I swing back and forth between feeling joyful to see deer in the street and hear birds singing and other signs of less traffic and pollution ? and on the other hand, becoming aware of two kinds of grief, one because of individuals who have died or who are vulnerable and probably will die, the second because of the challenge of imagining what kind of world the next generation will live in, and what will be lost to them because we were never able to communicate it well enough. I find myself imagining the emotions of Jewish families in Europe as the menace of facism became clearer, and those of the indigenous people of California ? the Miwok, for example, and the Chochenyo, who lived right here where I am now ? and saw their languages disappearing as their population was killed and dispersed. > > This second kind of grief seems to be something people can talk about - it?s collective, cultural. Not unrelated to this list! > > Finally, David, since you encouraged me to write: yesterday our son-in-law went grocery shopping for us at an enormous food emporium and brought home three large cucmbers, four ripe tomatoes of middle size, and a plastic bag of hearts of romaine. How much did it cost? $18.00. > > With best wishes to all ? Helena Worthen > helenaworthen@gmail.com > hworthen@illinois.edu > > > > >> On Apr 7, 2020, at 2:02 PM, David Kellogg > wrote: >> >> Helena-- >> >> Situation in China, courtesy my sister-in-law: life in Beijing is pretty much back to normal at least on the face of it. People are going out to their work units (but there is more work from home than before the crisis). Classes still largely taught from ZOOM. My nephew is in Shanghai, where the situation is somewhat tighter (proximity to Wuhan). Wuhan opened up for real yesterday--people can leave (I lived there for two years in the mid-eighties, but I can barely recognize what I see on the news now....) I have students in Chengdu (who attend my class via ZOOM). People are mostly shopping on line with delivery to the gate of the housing unit rather than to their flat (as we do here in Korea). Air quality better than it's been in decades. >> >> Situation here in South Korea: We just extended our lockdown for another two weeks. This is in response to a few days of new infections over a hundred, but the infections are mostly (80%) Koreans from the US and Europe who want to live in a place where the medical system has not broken down or is not in the process of breaking down. There are still some "hotspots" of community transmission, but these are almost all connected with churches or PC cafes. Schools reopen on the 16th, but only online. We have elections in a week, and there is a lot of campaigning going on, including the usual street based campaigning (the right wing opposition campaigns around the curious notion that the government has done absolutely nothing, and the government ignores everybody who is not an actual virus). People shop in stores, and there is no panic buying or disruption of supply chains. The main changes in economic life seem to have to do with transport, and it seems like this too will be permanent (electric scooters are everywhere now). Bowing instead of shaking hands is really not a bad idea, and coffee-shops always were over-rated and over-priced.... >> >> But what about you, Helena? (One of the things I have learned on this list is that you get more or less what you give--people tend to use what you write as a model for writing back!) Are you still in Vietnam? Your address says Berkeley and your email says Illinois--those are three very different venues for the virus and the economy. Can you give us a brief account of the situation in each? >> >> Stay safe, wherever you are! >> >> David Kellogg >> Sangmyung University >> >> Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational action research >> in Mind Culture and Activity >> >> https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 >> >> Some free e-prints available at: >> >> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 >> >> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" >> >> https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 >> >> >> On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 4:30 AM Martin Packer > wrote: >> Hi Helena, >> >> I share your concerns. And, despite its challenges, this situation seems a great opportunity to apply our distributed expertise(s). I tried to get some discussion going in a group concerned with the Anthropocene, but people seemed disinclined. >> >> Martin >> >> Here?s the first message that I sent? >> >> The current situation is producing important evidence about the probable consequences of the strategies proposed to mitigate climate change. Satellites are showing significant reductions in pollution: >> https://www.space.com/italy-coronavirus-outbreak-response-reduces-emissions-satellite-images.html >> Experts are suggesting that as a result the coronavirus may save more lives than it takes: >> https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2020/03/11/coronavirus-lockdown-may-save-more-lives-from-pollution-and-climate-than-from-virus/#4a39bb3c5764 >> So when skeptics ask ?How can you know that reducing air travel will help with climate change?? there is now clear evidence with which to answer them. >> >> Also in China: >> https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/04/811019032/why-chinas-air-has-been-cleaner-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak >> >> At the same time, I am starting to wonder whether the current health guidelines regarding coronvirus are culturally biased. Can they work in ?collectivist? cultures (to use the shorthand)? The CDC guidelines, for example, include the recommendations to ?Stay home when you are sick,? but also that other members of the household should ?Avoid close contact with people who are sick? and should ?Choose a room in your home that can be used to separate sick household members from those who are healthy. Identify a separate bathroom for the sick person to use, if possible.? >> This advice is simply not practicable for many households in Colombia. There are not enough rooms; there is no second bathroom. In addition, many infants and young children here are cared for by grandparents, or even great-grandparents (many women here have a baby when young, so an infant may have a grandmother who is in her late 30s and a great-grandmother in her late 50s). The evidence shows that children don?t become very ill, but they do get infected and they can infect other people, among whom elderly caregivers will be the most at risk. >> So I don?t think social distance and auto-quarantine will work in Colombia. Consider what the Chinese did: they went door-to-door to identify infected family members and removed them to massive collective quarantine setttings. People in the West considered this to be draconian, even cruel. But it made sense: much more cross-infection occurred in Chinese homes than in places like restaurants. >> Unless the authorities can come up with strategies that are more appropriate to local circumstances and practices, there is likely to be a rapid and elevated peak of infections in Latin American countries. >> >> And I see there is a related point here, on ageism: >> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200313155256.htm >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Apr 7, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Helena Worthen > wrote: >>> >>> Hello, XMCA-ers - >>> >>> I don?t remember ever having read that this list was going to shut down or even be allowed to fade away. So now I?m writing, as if in the dark, to the whole list. We?ve now got a major ? maybe ?the? major crisis of the anthropocene on our hands and the distant but connected network represented by the conversations on this list seem to me to be a treasure more precious than gold - and I?m not speaking metaphorically. >>> >>> I am concerned about some of the people who have been pillars and resources on his list, people whom I have reached out to over the years and heard back from with information and perspectives that I would never have been able to access on my own. Where are you now? What are you doing? Are you safe and healthy? Do you have information about friends who are unable to read or respond to this request? >>> >>> I hope to hear some responses to this message. >>> >>> Take care of yourselves, please ? >>> >>> Helena >>> >>> >>> Helena Worthen >>> hworthen@illinois.edu >>> 21 San Mateo Road, Berkeley, CA 94707 >>> >>> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200410/0414d31e/attachment.html From Anne-Nelly.Perret-Clermont@unine.ch Fri Apr 10 09:35:42 2020 From: Anne-Nelly.Perret-Clermont@unine.ch (PERRET-CLERMONT Anne-Nelly) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 16:35:42 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> Message-ID: Hello everybody! Thank you so much for all the news and perspectives that are being shared from all over the Planet. Such difficult times, especially for those who can?t even send news... Some news from Switzerland, a privileged country, yet with very serious contamination rates. Almost 4 weeks of confinement (rights to go out are very limited and only a limited number of professions are still working) that totally re-organize our private and public life. The sun is shining wonderfully and it is very tempting to move out for this Easter holiday. Nevertheless, most people are very disciplined and stay home in confinement. It took a lot of time for the local, cantonal and federal authorities to decide on the confinement measures. Switzerland?s political traditions impose bottom-up decisions. But the result of this (too slow?) process seems to be that most people agree and comply with this policy. Police forces try to do education and not repression. But the peak of the tide of contamination has not been reached yet and hospitals are under stress. The economic stress due to this long shut down arises a lot of fear on the side of trade unions and employers associations. Switzerland has very large multinational companies, but 90% of its firms are small or medium size business. Quite a number of them are now reaching the edge of bankruptcy. If they should go bankrup,t this would totally disorganise the country, its daily style of life and more: small firms and their locations impact regional demography, resources, power (in a federation of cantons), etc. after compulsory education, 60% of the young people attend dual education (i.e. half time in firms and half-time in school) and if firms shut down this education will fall apart. Government, banks and networks of citizens are lending money and trying to maintain these small firms alive. Unemployment rate is raising but rents have to be paid. Etc? Switzerland is a country of pharmaceutical industry and engineers. But the panic in the hospitals is not over: equipment is insufficient, and drugs are starting to miss. Local enterprises have the know how to make them but ?with ingredients that come exclusively from China and India. Hospitals have been afraid of losing 25% to 40% of their staff as nurses often come from the bordering regions of France and Italy. Finally, these countries have locked their borders but not for those professionals. This does not solve the problem on the long term, of course as these countries also need more medical staff. We hope that a growing awareness of the importance (and respect and salary) due to these professions will finally have the necessary impact. At 9 p.m., everybody goes at the window or balcony to give them a clap (or ring bells or even play music) for a minute to thank all the medical staff and other professions (e.g., cleaners) who likewise take enormous risks and make great efforts. The number of beds in the hospitals has been seriously increased by creative means. The ultraliberal policy of the last decade had seriously cut down the number of beds in hospital and sent many many patients to private practice and ambulatory treatment. But the government, when declaring confinement, has also declared that medical practitioners should only do online treatment and should close their practice. Result: 3 weeks later medical authorities are very worried: many patients in serious conditions or with severe chronic diseases don?t dare to call their medical practitioner and are afraid to go to the emergency services in hospital (fear of overloading them, fear of infection by Covid and fear of being cut out from their families (not allowed in the hospital). The pronostic is a possible wave of very serious cases needing urgent and heavy treatment. This wave will put extra-pressure on the sanitary system already overburden. Meanwhile small medical units are close to bankruptcy : their have to pay the salaries of their staff but have no income to do so. There is also a (still small) growing concern among social scientists that the teams that reflect on the pandemic and the confinement measures (and the planning of the end of the confinement) are made up of exclusively of epidemiologists and economists (with one or two specialists in ethics). Hence the psychic and social problems of the confined population are probably underestimated. Little is known of the underprivileged part of the population, now unemployed, in small housing, with little outreach. Schooling has gone online in a fortnight (with absolutely no preparation) but many students don?t have connections or share the unique computer of the household with parents and siblings all supposedly on line. This is only a few elements that characterise the situation. In parallel, many citizens are becoming increasingly aware of the dangers of the total interdependence of the economy and of the ecological disasters that this creates. Sanitary disasters and ecological disasters are much more interrelated than expected (a very nice book to understand that biological processes and ways of life social life are interdependent: Rob Dunn "Never home alone. >From Microbes to Millipedes, Camel Crickets, and Honeybees, the Natural History of Where We Live"). There are also plenty of many nice examples of solidarity, creativity, etc. They need to converge and be made visible. We (MAPS in University of Neuch?tel) are engaging in a large inquiry based on Bruno Latour?s call (March 29, 2020): "A little exercise to make sure that, after the virus crisis, things don?t start again as they were before" (see http://www.bruno-latour.fr/node/852.html with already versions in English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Polish, German, Dutch). Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont Prof. em. Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont Institut de psychologie et ?ducation Facult? des lettres et sciences humaines Universit? de Neuch?tel Espace Tilo-Frey 1 (Anciennement: Espace Louis-Agassiz 1) CH- 2000 Neuch?tel (Suisse) http://www.unine.ch/ipe/publications/anne_nelly_perret_clermont Last publications: Perret-Clermont, A.-N., Sch?r, R., Greco, S., Convertini, J., Iannaccone, A., & Rocci, A. (2019). Shifting from a monological to a dialogical perspective on children?s argumentation. Lessons learned. In F. H. van Eemren & B. Garssen (Eds.), Argumentation in actual practice. Topical studies about argumentative discourse in context (pp. 211-236): John Benjamins Publishing Company. Version ?lectronique Iannaccone, A., Perret-Clermont, A.-N., & Convertini, J. (2019). Children as investigators of Brunerian ?Possible worlds?. The role of narrative scenarios in children?s argumentative thinking. . Integrative Psychological and Behiavioral Science, 53, 679-693. Version ?lectronique Perret-Clermont, A.-N., Perret, J.-F., Pochon, L.-O., & Marro, P. (2019). Hommage ? Jacques Perriault. Hermes, La Revue, 3, 226-226. In J.-P. Fragni?re (Ed.), Agir et penser avec Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont (pp. 71-107). Lausanne: Editions Socialinfo https://www.socialinfo.ch/les-livres/38-agir-et-penser-avec-anne-nelly-perret-clermont.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200410/f75ab120/attachment.html From Peg.Griffin@att.net Fri Apr 10 09:54:43 2020 From: Peg.Griffin@att.net (Peg Griffin, Ph.D.) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 12:54:43 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: <62CFE8B1-276D-4C4C-90CF-C1E3C3352418@gmail.com> References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> <001301d60dcb$0b376430$21a62c90$@att.net> <7F97CF82-25AF-4388-98AC-D6A838CA008F@gmail.com> <000001d60df4$f492efe0$ddb8cfa0$@att.net> <000201d60eae$9ef9d5c0$dced8140$@att.net> <62CFE8B1-276D-4C4C-90CF-C1E3C3352418@gmail.com> Message-ID: <000601d60f58$bc76cf90$35646eb0$@att.net> Henry, Only thing I know for sure about any bill is this: If it doesn?t serve well the top 1%, then McConnell won?t have it come to the floor for a vote in the Senate, so many reasonably good bills are never enacted and no Senator or President need be held accountable about their opposition. But, what I know about intersectional groups in the past few years is that we have to reach out in any and all ways possible to be sure we do not step on each other?s messages, actions, and needs, and to be sure we have ways of getting and giving timely support as allies. It sounds wimpy for a bumper sticker, but I wish I had one that said ?Protect Fragile Solidarity!? I think we may be inching in that awkward direction though: SPLC has normalized the bumper sticker, ?Restore the Vote.? Peg From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 12:05 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Peg, I really don?t know anymore about life on the Rez now than what I read on line, what I have heard on Native America Calling on our local public radio station KUNM and what I hear from my Navajo Family near Shiprock. So far, no one in my family there is sick. I have no insider information that might help pull the right strings in DC. Deb Haaland sends out regular bulletins describing what she is doing to benefit all New Mexicans, no specific mention of what?s happening on the Navajo. You know more about the bills than I do! Henry On Apr 9, 2020, at 2:36 PM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. > wrote: Henry, may I ask you to discuss Co-Vid 19 in the Navajo Nation? From news reports the Nation seems to be proactive, trying new and old ways of proceeding. But, in comparison to nearby states, more and deeper problems faced with fewer and less stable resources? DC got robbed in the second bailout bill ? way underfunded. Plans are getting formed and deformed about pushing for fixes in the next bill (now in messes in both House and Senate). Do you know if there are any Navajo plans that DC folk can support, maybe learn from (or at least stop from inadvertently stepping on?) Is staff in Deb Haaland?s office in the HOB a good place to try to find out or ?? A good fantasy about November, Henry. Somehow, it reminds me of the early days in the Fifth Dimension. The children engaged in transformational journeys, taking their avatars through rooms in a table top maze, choosing which of several openings they would use as entry and eventual exit, choosing which of different tasks in the room to do (harder tasks coupled with more choice over which exits from room they could use), collaborating with peers and lovely Big Sisters and Brothers, and there was always the Wizard ?guardian or trickster or sometimes asleep at the wheel. At an exit, avatars transformed and children went to the creature store to pick the token of the transformation to travel with if they chose to enter the 5th D again. But there was also a different world with university and public school calendars and rites of passage. At times for seams important to that world, the children got shirts screen-printed with words ranging from ?I conquered the 5thdimension? ?I barely survived the 5th Dimension? ?I almost survived the 5th Dimension? and so on ?I?m in the middle? ?I?m just starting?? A child reviewed the prior period of time, negotiating which words would be on their shirt. (Of all the weird things in the 5th D, Mike laughs best about the carefully differentiated shirts.) So, how about you and I in the here(s) and now(s)? We make choice after choice after choice and work hard at enough to transform the current elected officials to try to choose better creatures as we exit this iteration of a government and enter again for choices and tasks in the next iteration. Concurrently, we have to keep our eye on the prize of the CoVid 19 pandemic world and survival in it. BTW, I do live inside the Beltway ? 12 blocks north and east of Union Station. The museums, the food, and the HOBs (House Office Buildings) ? as well as the SOBs across the capitol park ? all nearby, familiar sites of camaraderie for efforts, some successful and some not so much. Peg From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [ mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 7:52 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity < xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? I was born at Mercy Hospital in Washington DC. Do you actually live inside the Beltway? Great museums there and food. Scads of family from both Judy?s and my side. One of the last times I visited there, I went to Michelle?s office: She was our representative at the time. She gets around. I have this fantasy brought on by the pandemic and New Mexico?s Blue (Democratic) sweep in 2018 that brought us three kick-ass women: Governor Michelle...Representative Deborah Halland for Albuquerque and surrounds where we live (I canvassed for her in the primary!)?and Representative Xochi Small to the south. All Democrats. The fantasy is that these historic times, this perizhvanie, this Lev budding, will bear fruit in November that gets us through another narrow place. And we will celebrate. Fitting that Passover is tonight, a celebration of liberation from slavery, and a time when we recognize that we are all really strangers, wherever we live. Yikes! Talk about Biblical dialect! It?s as catching as that Corona bug! Must stay well Henry On Apr 8, 2020, at 4:27 PM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. < Peg.Griffin@att.net> wrote: I live in Washington, DC, Henry, but my roots here are by way of LCHC in San Diego which begot xlchc which begot xmca. Don?t know why I switched into a biblical dialect, but not hallucinations, just whimsy. And a little tired this evening. Did you notice how my motif in my last post turned unto motive when I sent it? I think it was Leonti?ev sneaking in. The description of your mask seems dashing! Could Judy have alternative (or ulterior) motive (or motif)? Hmmm, just recognized the 5th Dimension wanting into the lineage recital. Still no hallucination just a few sips of a nice Tuscan blend? Peg From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [ mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 5:14 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity < xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Hey Peg! Yes, I will tell Governor Michelle you?re rooting for her from where you and yours are at! Please forgive my senior moment, but where do YOU live? My wife Judy figured out how to make a mask from a bandana and two hair ties. Like I?m ready to rob the stage coach, full of ppe (personal protective equipment).:) I saw a cartoon of Trump and his underlings at one of his you-can?t-make-it-up briefings. They are wearing masks that cover nose and mouth. Trump has a Lone Ranger mask. Here?s a link for those short on Americana: https://www.pinterest.com/robertharmon311/lone-ranger-mask-patterns-for-save-ranger-challeng/ Stay safe and well! Henry On Apr 8, 2020, at 11:27 AM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. < Peg.Griffin@att.net> wrote: Henry, please tell your governor/friend, Michelle Lujan Grisham, ?We see her, we hear her, we love her, and we know we need her.? Groups here that made good use of allies before the pandemic are making good, well-planned use of us now, especially for those in the shadows, by necessity or oversight, to address basic food and medical insecurity. And thank you, too, Henry and others on xmca. Relatively healthy (AKA no Co-vid19 that we know of and well masked ? my favorite right now is an easily washed and bleached homemade one with a blue lamb motive ? anyone need a pdf for making adult or child masks, with or without hepa-filters?) and safe, Peg From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [ mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 12:48 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity < xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Hi All, Like Greg, I was struck by Andy?s sense that China may go back to ?normal? but the neo-liberal ?first" world is and will be experiencing a profound perizhvanie. You?d hope it will be for the good. In the U.S,, generally, rates of infection are positively correlated with density of population. For example, I live in New Mexico, the fifth largest state in the U.S. with a population of a little over a one million and the lowest rate of infection?so far. However, our Navajo live spread out to the west and north of us, but have very high rates of infection. Little Zia Pueblo, just an our by car to the north and west of us, only has about a thousand people, with eleven confirmed cases. Poverty. In the country as a whole people of color have relatively higher rates of infection. Poverty. Our governor, Michelle Lujan Grisham (who I am proud to say is a good friend), has been successful in pushing baci against Trump?s efforts to punish states that did not vote for him by being less than cooperative in providing resources against the pandemic. She has been using her bully pulpit against Trump's bloviating. His hot air has got to be an infectious agent. Most of us are using masks in public, evidence indicating that it protects OTHERS by wearing them. Trump prefers NOT to wear a mask. Consistent with his politics. You can?t make this up. Be well, Henry On Apr 8, 2020, at 9:00 AM, Greg Thompson < greg.a.thompson@gmail.com> wrote: David, I wonder if you could say more about your experience of the state-based "surveillance" in SK. There are lots of different groups in the U.S., both on the left and the right, who are up in arms about the "tracking" of citizens via credit card and cell phone usage. And it sounds like this is a global concern as Mary's report from SA suggests. Also how interesting how similar the conspiracy theories are around the globe (globalization and the spread of viral ideas?). That's world perezhivanie indeed! -greg On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 3:08 PM David Kellogg < dkellogg60@gmail.com> wrote: Helena-- Situation in China, courtesy my sister-in-law: life in Beijing is pretty much back to normal at least on the face of it. People are going out to their work units (but there is more work from home than before the crisis). Classes still largely taught from ZOOM. My nephew is in Shanghai, where the situation is somewhat tighter (proximity to Wuhan). Wuhan opened up for real yesterday--people can leave (I lived there for two years in the mid-eighties, but I can barely recognize what I see on the news now....) I have students in Chengdu (who attend my class via ZOOM). People are mostly shopping on line with delivery to the gate of the housing unit rather than to their flat (as we do here in Korea). Air quality better than it's been in decades. Situation here in South Korea: We just extended our lockdown for another two weeks. This is in response to a few days of new infections over a hundred, but the infections are mostly (80%) Koreans from the US and Europe who want to live in a place where the medical system has not broken down or is not in the process of breaking down. There are still some "hotspots" of community transmission, but these are almost all connected with churches or PC cafes. Schools reopen on the 16th, but only online. We have elections in a week, and there is a lot of campaigning going on, including the usual street based campaigning (the right wing opposition campaigns around the curious notion that the government has done absolutely nothing, and the government ignores everybody who is not an actual virus). People shop in stores, and there is no panic buying or disruption of supply chains. The main changes in economic life seem to have to do with transport, and it seems like this too will be permanent (electric scooters are everywhere now). Bowing instead of shaking hands is really not a bad idea, and coffee-shops always were over-rated and over-priced.... But what about you, Helena? (One of the things I have learned on this list is that you get more or less what you give--people tend to use what you write as a model for writing back!) Are you still in Vietnam? Your address says Berkeley and your email says Illinois--those are three very different venues for the virus and the economy. Can you give us a brief account of the situation in each? Stay safe, wherever you are! David Kellogg Sangmyung University Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational action research in Mind Culture and Activity https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 Some free e-prints available at: https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 4:30 AM Martin Packer < mpacker@cantab.net> wrote: Hi Helena, I share your concerns. And, despite its challenges, this situation seems a great opportunity to apply our distributed expertise(s). I tried to get some discussion going in a group concerned with the Anthropocene, but people seemed disinclined. Martin Here?s the first message that I sent? The current situation is producing important evidence about the probable consequences of the strategies proposed to mitigate climate change. Satellites are showing significant reductions in pollution: https://www.space.com/italy-coronavirus-outbreak-response-reduces-emissions-satellite-images.html Experts are suggesting that as a result the coronavirus may save more lives than it takes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2020/03/11/coronavirus-lockdown-may-save-more-lives-from-pollution-and-climate-than-from-virus/#4a39bb3c5764 So when skeptics ask ?How can you know that reducing air travel will help with climate change?? there is now clear evidence with which to answer them. Also in China: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/04/811019032/why-chinas-air-has-been-cleaner-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak At the same time, I am starting to wonder whether the current health guidelines regarding coronvirus are culturally biased. Can they work in ?collectivist? cultures (to use the shorthand)? The CDC guidelines, for example, include the recommendations to ?Stay home when you are sick,? but also that other members of the household should ?Avoid close contact with people who are sick? and should ?Choose a room in your home that can be used to separate sick household members from those who are healthy. Identify a separate bathroom for the sick person to use, if possible.? This advice is simply not practicable for many households in Colombia. There are not enough rooms; there is no second bathroom. In addition, many infants and young children here are cared for by grandparents, or even great-grandparents (many women here have a baby when young, so an infant may have a grandmother who is in her late 30s and a great-grandmother in her late 50s). The evidence shows that children don?t become very ill, but they do get infected and they can infect other people, among whom elderly caregivers will be the most at risk. So I don?t think social distance and auto-quarantine will work in Colombia. Consider what the Chinese did: they went door-to-door to identify infected family members and removed them to massive collective quarantine setttings. People in the West considered this to be draconian, even cruel. But it made sense: much more cross-infection occurred in Chinese homes than in places like restaurants. Unless the authorities can come up with strategies that are more appropriate to local circumstances and practices, there is likely to be a rapid and elevated peak of infections in Latin American countries. And I see there is a related point here, on ageism: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200313155256.htm On Apr 7, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Helena Worthen < helenaworthen@gmail.com> wrote: Hello, XMCA-ers - I don?t remember ever having read that this list was going to shut down or even be allowed to fade away. So now I?m writing, as if in the dark, to the whole list. We?ve now got a major ? maybe ?the? major crisis of the anthropocene on our hands and the distant but connected network represented by the conversations on this list seem to me to be a treasure more precious than gold - and I?m not speaking metaphorically. I am concerned about some of the people who have been pillars and resources on his list, people whom I have reached out to over the years and heard back from with information and perspectives that I would never have been able to access on my own. Where are you now? What are you doing? Are you safe and healthy? Do you have information about friends who are unable to read or respond to this request? I hope to hear some responses to this message. Take care of yourselves, please ? Helena Helena Worthen hworthen@illinois.edu 21 San Mateo Road, Berkeley, CA 94707 -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200410/bc120b21/attachment.html From dkirsh@lsu.edu Fri Apr 10 10:28:07 2020 From: dkirsh@lsu.edu (David H Kirshner) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 17:28:07 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: <000601d60f58$bc76cf90$35646eb0$@att.net> References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> <001301d60dcb$0b376430$21a62c90$@att.net> <7F97CF82-25AF-4388-98AC-D6A838CA008F@gmail.com> <000001d60df4$f492efe0$ddb8cfa0$@att.net> <000201d60eae$9ef9d5c0$dced8140$@att.net> <62CFE8B1-276D-4C4C-90CF-C1E3C3352418@gmail.com> <000601d60f58$bc76cf90$35646eb0$@att.net> Message-ID: Here?s a fictional reminder of what more may be at stake in the current political era. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/04/06/love-letter David From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu On Behalf Of Peg Griffin, Ph.D. Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 11:55 AM To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Henry, Only thing I know for sure about any bill is this: If it doesn?t serve well the top 1%, then McConnell won?t have it come to the floor for a vote in the Senate, so many reasonably good bills are never enacted and no Senator or President need be held accountable about their opposition. But, what I know about intersectional groups in the past few years is that we have to reach out in any and all ways possible to be sure we do not step on each other?s messages, actions, and needs, and to be sure we have ways of getting and giving timely support as allies. It sounds wimpy for a bumper sticker, but I wish I had one that said ?Protect Fragile Solidarity!? I think we may be inching in that awkward direction though: SPLC has normalized the bumper sticker, ?Restore the Vote.? Peg From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 12:05 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Peg, I really don?t know anymore about life on the Rez now than what I read on line, what I have heard on Native America Calling on our local public radio station KUNM and what I hear from my Navajo Family near Shiprock. So far, no one in my family there is sick. I have no insider information that might help pull the right strings in DC. Deb Haaland sends out regular bulletins describing what she is doing to benefit all New Mexicans, no specific mention of what?s happening on the Navajo. You know more about the bills than I do! Henry On Apr 9, 2020, at 2:36 PM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. > wrote: Henry, may I ask you to discuss Co-Vid 19 in the Navajo Nation? From news reports the Nation seems to be proactive, trying new and old ways of proceeding. But, in comparison to nearby states, more and deeper problems faced with fewer and less stable resources? DC got robbed in the second bailout bill ? way underfunded. Plans are getting formed and deformed about pushing for fixes in the next bill (now in messes in both House and Senate). Do you know if there are any Navajo plans that DC folk can support, maybe learn from (or at least stop from inadvertently stepping on?) Is staff in Deb Haaland?s office in the HOB a good place to try to find out or ?? A good fantasy about November, Henry. Somehow, it reminds me of the early days in the Fifth Dimension. The children engaged in transformational journeys, taking their avatars through rooms in a table top maze, choosing which of several openings they would use as entry and eventual exit, choosing which of different tasks in the room to do (harder tasks coupled with more choice over which exits from room they could use), collaborating with peers and lovely Big Sisters and Brothers, and there was always the Wizard ?guardian or trickster or sometimes asleep at the wheel. At an exit, avatars transformed and children went to the creature store to pick the token of the transformation to travel with if they chose to enter the 5th D again. But there was also a different world with university and public school calendars and rites of passage. At times for seams important to that world, the children got shirts screen-printed with words ranging from ?I conquered the 5thdimension? ?I barely survived the 5th Dimension? ?I almost survived the 5th Dimension? and so on ?I?m in the middle? ?I?m just starting?? A child reviewed the prior period of time, negotiating which words would be on their shirt. (Of all the weird things in the 5th D, Mike laughs best about the carefully differentiated shirts.) So, how about you and I in the here(s) and now(s)? We make choice after choice after choice and work hard at enough to transform the current elected officials to try to choose better creatures as we exit this iteration of a government and enter again for choices and tasks in the next iteration. Concurrently, we have to keep our eye on the prize of the CoVid 19 pandemic world and survival in it. BTW, I do live inside the Beltway ? 12 blocks north and east of Union Station. The museums, the food, and the HOBs (House Office Buildings) ? as well as the SOBs across the capitol park ? all nearby, familiar sites of camaraderie for efforts, some successful and some not so much. Peg From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 7:52 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? I was born at Mercy Hospital in Washington DC. Do you actually live inside the Beltway? Great museums there and food. Scads of family from both Judy?s and my side. One of the last times I visited there, I went to Michelle?s office: She was our representative at the time. She gets around. I have this fantasy brought on by the pandemic and New Mexico?s Blue (Democratic) sweep in 2018 that brought us three kick-ass women: Governor Michelle...Representative Deborah Halland for Albuquerque and surrounds where we live (I canvassed for her in the primary!)?and Representative Xochi Small to the south. All Democrats. The fantasy is that these historic times, this perizhvanie, this Lev budding, will bear fruit in November that gets us through another narrow place. And we will celebrate. Fitting that Passover is tonight, a celebration of liberation from slavery, and a time when we recognize that we are all really strangers, wherever we live. Yikes! Talk about Biblical dialect! It?s as catching as that Corona bug! Must stay well Henry On Apr 8, 2020, at 4:27 PM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. > wrote: I live in Washington, DC, Henry, but my roots here are by way of LCHC in San Diego which begot xlchc which begot xmca. Don?t know why I switched into a biblical dialect, but not hallucinations, just whimsy. And a little tired this evening. Did you notice how my motif in my last post turned unto motive when I sent it? I think it was Leonti?ev sneaking in. The description of your mask seems dashing! Could Judy have alternative (or ulterior) motive (or motif)? Hmmm, just recognized the 5th Dimension wanting into the lineage recital. Still no hallucination just a few sips of a nice Tuscan blend? Peg From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 5:14 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Hey Peg! Yes, I will tell Governor Michelle you?re rooting for her from where you and yours are at! Please forgive my senior moment, but where do YOU live? My wife Judy figured out how to make a mask from a bandana and two hair ties. Like I?m ready to rob the stage coach, full of ppe (personal protective equipment).:) I saw a cartoon of Trump and his underlings at one of his you-can?t-make-it-up briefings. They are wearing masks that cover nose and mouth. Trump has a Lone Ranger mask. Here?s a link for those short on Americana: https://www.pinterest.com/robertharmon311/lone-ranger-mask-patterns-for-save-ranger-challeng/ Stay safe and well! Henry On Apr 8, 2020, at 11:27 AM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. > wrote: Henry, please tell your governor/friend, Michelle Lujan Grisham, ?We see her, we hear her, we love her, and we know we need her.? Groups here that made good use of allies before the pandemic are making good, well-planned use of us now, especially for those in the shadows, by necessity or oversight, to address basic food and medical insecurity. And thank you, too, Henry and others on xmca. Relatively healthy (AKA no Co-vid19 that we know of and well masked ? my favorite right now is an easily washed and bleached homemade one with a blue lamb motive ? anyone need a pdf for making adult or child masks, with or without hepa-filters?) and safe, Peg From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 12:48 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Hi All, Like Greg, I was struck by Andy?s sense that China may go back to ?normal? but the neo-liberal ?first" world is and will be experiencing a profound perizhvanie. You?d hope it will be for the good. In the U.S,, generally, rates of infection are positively correlated with density of population. For example, I live in New Mexico, the fifth largest state in the U.S. with a population of a little over a one million and the lowest rate of infection?so far. However, our Navajo live spread out to the west and north of us, but have very high rates of infection. Little Zia Pueblo, just an our by car to the north and west of us, only has about a thousand people, with eleven confirmed cases. Poverty. In the country as a whole people of color have relatively higher rates of infection. Poverty. Our governor, Michelle Lujan Grisham (who I am proud to say is a good friend), has been successful in pushing baci against Trump?s efforts to punish states that did not vote for him by being less than cooperative in providing resources against the pandemic. She has been using her bully pulpit against Trump's bloviating. His hot air has got to be an infectious agent. Most of us are using masks in public, evidence indicating that it protects OTHERS by wearing them. Trump prefers NOT to wear a mask. Consistent with his politics. You can?t make this up. Be well, Henry On Apr 8, 2020, at 9:00 AM, Greg Thompson > wrote: David, I wonder if you could say more about your experience of the state-based "surveillance" in SK. There are lots of different groups in the U.S., both on the left and the right, who are up in arms about the "tracking" of citizens via credit card and cell phone usage. And it sounds like this is a global concern as Mary's report from SA suggests. Also how interesting how similar the conspiracy theories are around the globe (globalization and the spread of viral ideas?). That's world perezhivanie indeed! -greg On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 3:08 PM David Kellogg > wrote: Helena-- Situation in China, courtesy my sister-in-law: life in Beijing is pretty much back to normal at least on the face of it. People are going out to their work units (but there is more work from home than before the crisis). Classes still largely taught from ZOOM. My nephew is in Shanghai, where the situation is somewhat tighter (proximity to Wuhan). Wuhan opened up for real yesterday--people can leave (I lived there for two years in the mid-eighties, but I can barely recognize what I see on the news now....) I have students in Chengdu (who attend my class via ZOOM). People are mostly shopping on line with delivery to the gate of the housing unit rather than to their flat (as we do here in Korea). Air quality better than it's been in decades. Situation here in South Korea: We just extended our lockdown for another two weeks. This is in response to a few days of new infections over a hundred, but the infections are mostly (80%) Koreans from the US and Europe who want to live in a place where the medical system has not broken down or is not in the process of breaking down. There are still some "hotspots" of community transmission, but these are almost all connected with churches or PC cafes. Schools reopen on the 16th, but only online. We have elections in a week, and there is a lot of campaigning going on, including the usual street based campaigning (the right wing opposition campaigns around the curious notion that the government has done absolutely nothing, and the government ignores everybody who is not an actual virus). People shop in stores, and there is no panic buying or disruption of supply chains. The main changes in economic life seem to have to do with transport, and it seems like this too will be permanent (electric scooters are everywhere now). Bowing instead of shaking hands is really not a bad idea, and coffee-shops always were over-rated and over-priced.... But what about you, Helena? (One of the things I have learned on this list is that you get more or less what you give--people tend to use what you write as a model for writing back!) Are you still in Vietnam? Your address says Berkeley and your email says Illinois--those are three very different venues for the virus and the economy. Can you give us a brief account of the situation in each? Stay safe, wherever you are! David Kellogg Sangmyung University Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational action research in Mind Culture and Activity https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 Some free e-prints available at: https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 4:30 AM Martin Packer > wrote: Hi Helena, I share your concerns. And, despite its challenges, this situation seems a great opportunity to apply our distributed expertise(s). I tried to get some discussion going in a group concerned with the Anthropocene, but people seemed disinclined. Martin Here?s the first message that I sent? The current situation is producing important evidence about the probable consequences of the strategies proposed to mitigate climate change. Satellites are showing significant reductions in pollution: https://www.space.com/italy-coronavirus-outbreak-response-reduces-emissions-satellite-images.html Experts are suggesting that as a result the coronavirus may save more lives than it takes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2020/03/11/coronavirus-lockdown-may-save-more-lives-from-pollution-and-climate-than-from-virus/#4a39bb3c5764 So when skeptics ask ?How can you know that reducing air travel will help with climate change?? there is now clear evidence with which to answer them. Also in China: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/04/811019032/why-chinas-air-has-been-cleaner-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak At the same time, I am starting to wonder whether the current health guidelines regarding coronvirus are culturally biased. Can they work in ?collectivist? cultures (to use the shorthand)? The CDC guidelines, for example, include the recommendations to ?Stay home when you are sick,? but also that other members of the household should ?Avoid close contact with people who are sick? and should ?Choose a room in your home that can be used to separate sick household members from those who are healthy. Identify a separate bathroom for the sick person to use, if possible.? This advice is simply not practicable for many households in Colombia. There are not enough rooms; there is no second bathroom. In addition, many infants and young children here are cared for by grandparents, or even great-grandparents (many women here have a baby when young, so an infant may have a grandmother who is in her late 30s and a great-grandmother in her late 50s). The evidence shows that children don?t become very ill, but they do get infected and they can infect other people, among whom elderly caregivers will be the most at risk. So I don?t think social distance and auto-quarantine will work in Colombia. Consider what the Chinese did: they went door-to-door to identify infected family members and removed them to massive collective quarantine setttings. People in the West considered this to be draconian, even cruel. But it made sense: much more cross-infection occurred in Chinese homes than in places like restaurants. Unless the authorities can come up with strategies that are more appropriate to local circumstances and practices, there is likely to be a rapid and elevated peak of infections in Latin American countries. And I see there is a related point here, on ageism: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200313155256.htm On Apr 7, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Helena Worthen > wrote: Hello, XMCA-ers - I don?t remember ever having read that this list was going to shut down or even be allowed to fade away. So now I?m writing, as if in the dark, to the whole list. We?ve now got a major ? maybe ?the? major crisis of the anthropocene on our hands and the distant but connected network represented by the conversations on this list seem to me to be a treasure more precious than gold - and I?m not speaking metaphorically. I am concerned about some of the people who have been pillars and resources on his list, people whom I have reached out to over the years and heard back from with information and perspectives that I would never have been able to access on my own. Where are you now? What are you doing? Are you safe and healthy? Do you have information about friends who are unable to read or respond to this request? I hope to hear some responses to this message. Take care of yourselves, please ? Helena Helena Worthen hworthen@illinois.edu 21 San Mateo Road, Berkeley, CA 94707 -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200410/ecf80662/attachment.html From greg.a.thompson@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 10:54:06 2020 From: greg.a.thompson@gmail.com (Greg Thompson) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 11:54:06 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: A preliminary note In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Maybe time to get off the ethanol and switch to solar power? On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 9:42 PM mike cole wrote: > Dear Colleagues > > > > How wonderful it is to see xmca come alive again. Its amazing, really. > Locally in my privileged suburban neighbourhood, entirely unexpected, > genuinely new forms of sociality are springing up. As an inveterate early > morning dog walker, it has been as if all the rains we have been getting > (not the dreaded drought we expected in February) have re-mediated > relations in a pro-social manner that extended out beyond the neighbourhood > into the surrounding town. The common interest ? the common belief that > what Beth is experiencing in Brooklyn awaits them and their families. So > better start developing some solidarity. > > > > And what brought about this change? The INeffciency of neo-liberal > Capitalism that indeed is killing people and is doing it in a manner > designed by the 1%. Right now. Never mind the miracles of post-industrial > modernity. And the poor/powerless/subordinated are getting ground into > sausage. Bernie Sanders is being celebrated for having made his program of > socialist reform precisely because the bastion of neo-liberal capitalism > has revealed itself in a way that everyone recognizes. Now what? Or as they > asked in a different time and place, what is to be done? > > > > Your note, today, David, caught the MCA board in the middle of a longer > note spelling out a variety of changes that MCA is making to confront this > second ?shock wave? that has hit our community. A Re-generated XMCA still > has some older shock waves to deal with and a lot of in-our-faces wreckage > to confront. This crisis is not going away any time real soon. > > > I would like to respond more fully to the questions Greg raised and DAvid > responded to so extensively. But no more ethanol in the tank. > > > Thanks, Helen, for your invocation to the life of this fragile community. > > > Like all of you, I will be back as life permits. > > mike > > -- > Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a > landslide. Roy D'Andrade > --------------------------------------------------- > For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other > members of LCHC, visit > lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the > research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. > > > -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200410/235fbc22/attachment.html From mcole@UCSD.EDU Fri Apr 10 11:22:39 2020 From: mcole@UCSD.EDU (mike cole) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 11:22:39 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: <6F3B64BE-7924-4166-A72C-D25513F262E5@tlu.ee> References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <7F97CF82-25AF-4388-98AC-D6A838CA008F@gmail.com> <000201d60eae$9ef9d5c0$dced8140$@att.net> <62CFE8B1-276D-4C4C-90CF-C1E3C3352418@gmail.com> <6F3B64BE-7924-4166-A72C-D25513F262E5@tlu.ee> Message-ID: Hi Rein -- Its great to hear from Estonia. The Tulvistas used to be contributors to this conversation, back in the day. Your cultural-historical tradition, entwined with your semiotics, educate us all. How are you and your social circle thinkig about the current historical crisis/crises in terms of the future of democracy and debates about what follows in terms of possible forms of political economy.? I am "seeing" a very strong movement on the part of my government to fulfill our founding fathers's single worst nightmare: That a president would become king, and the states his vassals. This imagining is reinforced almost daily as I scan the horizon. A new form of nationalist authoritarianism. I might even live long enough to experience it. As critical, committed, cultural-historical, social scientists, who teach in universities tasked with creating and "transmitting" our knowledge to next generations, what special skills do we bring to our social roles and its obligations? Beth has described going through a qualitative transformation in her social role that is tightly bound to her obligations to her students and their students. David points to a future in which classroom spaces will not be used for their designed purposes for at least 2-3 years, assuming a globally distributed vaccine, or else it will be entirely a form of distance education that the world has never before experienced. Either way, inequalities will be exacerbated. etc. You all of this. So what can WE do (whoever we is?). Here is what I imagine from the perspective of a vulnerable 82 year old and almost four decades of xlchc-->xmca: Many people associated with XMCA, and many more who are associated with a variety of allied enterprises, have for decades become "experts" in the design of new forms of educational activity (or medical activity, or milk delivery men's mathematical practices, or tailors eeking out a living in an impoverished country) If I were a youngster and into branding, I might say that CHAT is expert in creating hybrid,multimedia, systems of activity, ones that afford the design of the kind of "heterogeneous attunement." -- the kind of attunement that promotes learning and development in zones of proxmal development. However, I am not a youngster and my plate was pretty full before this second shock wave, I am thinking about this as an "act locally but think globally" way to deal with a world where people must band together but can only survive by their networked ties to other. XMCA may not be the best place to discuss such matters. Your note with its "two kinds of social distancing" set me off. Here the medium seems to promote forms of chaining that leave only buried traces of the by-passed links. Then they silence those who feel disempowered by the male-domination. whiteness and status that have been apparently unstoppable although it is not the wish of any of those who participate. This happens not just on xmca, but in other fora where everyone does not want it to happen. My hope is that *Cultural Praxis, *which the MCA editors are re-vivifying, will provide more tools to ensure that we retain the diversity essential to any sort of cultural-historical theorizing or practicing. My whole ruble mike PS- How do we hybridize your two kinds of social distancing to create effect environments for education? On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 1:30 AM Rein Raud wrote: > Hi everyone, > > Sorry for not having been very active lately, as I?ve been submerged in > lots of reading and writing, and the situation with the crisis has created > an even more conducive atmosphere for that. In Estonia, the situation is > more or less under control, and social distancing has been in our second > nature for ages, although now that it is encouraged, it is suddenly no > longer so natural. > > Stay safe and keep up the good work! > > With best wishes, > > Rein > > > ********************************************** > Rein Raud > Professor of Asian and Cultural Studies, Tallinn University > Uus-Sadama 5, Tallinn 10120 Estonia > www.reinraud.com > > > ?Meaning in Action: Outline of an Integral Theory of Culture?(Polity 2016) > > ?Practices of Selfhood? (with Zygmunt Bauman, Polity 2015) > > > > > -- Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a landslide. Roy D'Andrade --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200410/9509ff6f/attachment.html From mcole@ucsd.edu Fri Apr 10 11:34:33 2020 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 11:34:33 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: A preliminary note In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just used up a whole tankfull, Greg. Now I will take your advice. While I wait for it to be installed, I'll go quiet so I can hear different voices whispering how it looks from where they are sequestered. mike On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 10:57 AM Greg Thompson wrote: > Maybe time to get off the ethanol and switch to solar power? > > On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 9:42 PM mike cole wrote: > >> Dear Colleagues >> >> >> >> How wonderful it is to see xmca come alive again. Its amazing, really. >> Locally in my privileged suburban neighbourhood, entirely unexpected, >> genuinely new forms of sociality are springing up. As an inveterate early >> morning dog walker, it has been as if all the rains we have been getting >> (not the dreaded drought we expected in February) have re-mediated >> relations in a pro-social manner that extended out beyond the neighbourhood >> into the surrounding town. The common interest ? the common belief that >> what Beth is experiencing in Brooklyn awaits them and their families. So >> better start developing some solidarity. >> >> >> >> And what brought about this change? The INeffciency of neo-liberal >> Capitalism that indeed is killing people and is doing it in a manner >> designed by the 1%. Right now. Never mind the miracles of post-industrial >> modernity. And the poor/powerless/subordinated are getting ground into >> sausage. Bernie Sanders is being celebrated for having made his program of >> socialist reform precisely because the bastion of neo-liberal capitalism >> has revealed itself in a way that everyone recognizes. Now what? Or as they >> asked in a different time and place, what is to be done? >> >> >> >> Your note, today, David, caught the MCA board in the middle of a longer >> note spelling out a variety of changes that MCA is making to confront this >> second ?shock wave? that has hit our community. A Re-generated XMCA still >> has some older shock waves to deal with and a lot of in-our-faces wreckage >> to confront. This crisis is not going away any time real soon. >> >> >> I would like to respond more fully to the questions Greg raised and DAvid >> responded to so extensively. But no more ethanol in the tank. >> >> >> Thanks, Helen, for your invocation to the life of this fragile community. >> >> >> Like all of you, I will be back as life permits. >> >> mike >> >> -- >> Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a >> landslide. Roy D'Andrade >> --------------------------------------------------- >> For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other >> members of LCHC, visit >> lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the >> research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. >> >> >> -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > -- Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a landslide. Roy D'Andrade --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200410/a9f6e931/attachment.html From mcole@ucsd.edu Fri Apr 10 12:39:53 2020 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 12:39:53 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> <001301d60dcb$0b376430$21a62c90$@att.net> <7F97CF82-25AF-4388-98AC-D6A838CA008F@gmail.com> <000001d60df4$f492efe0$ddb8cfa0$@att.net> <000201d60eae$9ef9d5c0$dced8140$@att.net> <62CFE8B1-276D-4C4C-90CF-C1E3C3352418@gmail.com> <000601d60f58$bc76cf90$35646eb0$@att.net> Message-ID: The new samizdat, David? mike On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 10:31 AM David H Kirshner wrote: > Here?s a fictional reminder of what more may be at stake in the current > political era. > > https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/04/06/love-letter > > David > > > > *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu *On > Behalf Of *Peg Griffin, Ph.D. > *Sent:* Friday, April 10, 2020 11:55 AM > *To:* 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' > *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? > > > > Henry, > > Only thing I know for sure about any bill is this: If it doesn?t serve > well the top 1%, then McConnell won?t have it come to the floor for a vote > in the Senate, so many reasonably good bills are never enacted and no > Senator or President need be held accountable about their opposition. > > > > But, what I know about intersectional groups in the past few years is that > we have to reach out in any and all ways possible to be sure we do not step > on each other?s messages, actions, and needs, and to be sure we have ways > of getting and giving timely support as allies. > > > > It sounds wimpy for a bumper sticker, but I wish I had one that said > ?Protect Fragile Solidarity!? > > I think we may be inching in that awkward direction though: SPLC has > normalized the bumper sticker, ?Restore the Vote.? > > Peg > > > > *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [ > mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu ] *On > Behalf Of *HENRY SHONERD > *Sent:* Friday, April 10, 2020 12:05 AM > *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? > > > > Peg, > > I really don?t know anymore about life on the Rez now than what I read on > line, what I have heard on Native America Calling on our local public radio > station KUNM and what I hear from my Navajo Family near Shiprock. So far, > no one in my family there is sick. I have no insider information that might > help pull the right strings in DC. Deb Haaland sends out regular bulletins > describing what she is doing to benefit all New Mexicans, no specific > mention of what?s happening on the Navajo. You know more about the bills > than I do! > > Henry > > > > > > On Apr 9, 2020, at 2:36 PM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. > wrote: > > > > Henry, may I ask you to discuss Co-Vid 19 in the Navajo Nation? From news > reports the Nation seems to be proactive, trying new and old ways of > proceeding. But, in comparison to nearby states, more and deeper problems > faced with fewer and less stable resources? DC got robbed in the second > bailout bill ? way underfunded. Plans are getting formed and deformed > about pushing for fixes in the next bill (now in messes in both House and > Senate). Do you know if there are any Navajo plans that DC folk can > support, maybe learn from (or at least stop from inadvertently stepping > on?) Is staff in Deb Haaland?s office in the HOB a good place to try to > find out or ?? > > > > A good fantasy about November, Henry. Somehow, it reminds me of the early > days in the Fifth Dimension. The children engaged in transformational > journeys, taking their avatars through rooms in a table top maze, choosing > which of several openings they would use as entry and eventual exit, > choosing which of different tasks in the room to do (harder tasks coupled > with more choice over which exits from room they could use), collaborating > with peers and lovely Big Sisters and Brothers, and there was always the > Wizard ?guardian or trickster or sometimes asleep at the wheel. At an > exit, avatars transformed and children went to the creature store to pick > the token of the transformation to travel with if they chose to enter the 5 > th D again. > > > > But there was also a different world with university and public school > calendars and rites of passage. At times for seams important to that world, > the children got shirts screen-printed with words ranging from ?I conquered > the 5thdimension? ?I barely survived the 5th Dimension? ?I almost > survived the 5th Dimension? and so on ?I?m in the middle? ?I?m just > starting?? A child reviewed the prior period of time, negotiating which > words would be on their shirt. (Of all the weird things in the 5th D, > Mike laughs best about the carefully differentiated shirts.) > > > > So, how about you and I in the here(s) and now(s)? We make choice after > choice after choice and work hard at enough to transform the current > elected officials to try to choose better creatures as we exit this > iteration of a government and enter again for choices and tasks in the next > iteration. Concurrently, we have to keep our eye on the prize of the CoVid > 19 pandemic world and survival in it. > > > > BTW, I do live inside the Beltway ? 12 blocks north and east of Union > Station. The museums, the food, and the HOBs (House Office Buildings) ? as > well as the SOBs across the capitol park ? all nearby, familiar sites of > camaraderie for efforts, some successful and some not so much. > > > > Peg > > > > *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [ > mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu ] *On > Behalf Of *HENRY SHONERD > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 8, 2020 7:52 PM > *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? > > > > I was born at Mercy Hospital in Washington DC. Do you actually live inside > the Beltway? Great museums there and food. Scads of family from both Judy?s > and my side. One of the last times I visited there, I went to Michelle?s > office: She was our representative at the time. She gets around. > > > > I have this fantasy brought on by the pandemic and New Mexico?s Blue > (Democratic) sweep in 2018 that brought us three kick-ass women: Governor > Michelle...Representative Deborah Halland for Albuquerque and surrounds > where we live (I canvassed for her in the primary!)?and Representative > Xochi Small to the south. All Democrats. The fantasy is that these historic > times, this perizhvanie, this Lev budding, will bear fruit in November that > gets us through another narrow place. And we will celebrate. Fitting that > Passover is tonight, a celebration of liberation from slavery, and a time > when we recognize that we are all really strangers, wherever we live. > > > > Yikes! Talk about Biblical dialect! It?s as catching as that Corona bug! > > > > Must stay well > > Henry > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 8, 2020, at 4:27 PM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. > wrote: > > > > I live in Washington, DC, Henry, but my roots here are by way of LCHC in > San Diego which begot xlchc which begot xmca. Don?t know why I switched > into a biblical dialect, but not hallucinations, just whimsy. And a little > tired this evening. > > Did you notice how my motif in my last post turned unto motive when I sent > it? I think it was Leonti?ev sneaking in. > > The description of your mask seems dashing! Could Judy have alternative > (or ulterior) motive (or motif)? > > Hmmm, just recognized the 5th Dimension wanting into the lineage > recital. Still no hallucination just a few sips of a nice Tuscan blend? > > Peg > > > > *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [ > mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu ] *On > Behalf Of *HENRY SHONERD > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 8, 2020 5:14 PM > *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? > > > > Hey Peg! > > Yes, I will tell Governor Michelle you?re rooting for her from where you > and yours are at! Please forgive my senior moment, but where do YOU live? > > > > My wife Judy figured out how to make a mask from a bandana and two hair > ties. Like I?m ready to rob the stage coach, full of ppe (personal > protective equipment).:) I saw a cartoon of Trump and his underlings at one > of his you-can?t-make-it-up briefings. They are wearing masks that cover > nose and mouth. Trump has a Lone Ranger mask. Here?s a link for those short > on Americana: > > > https://www.pinterest.com/robertharmon311/lone-ranger-mask-patterns-for-save-ranger-challeng/ > > > > > Stay safe and well! > > Henry > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 8, 2020, at 11:27 AM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. > wrote: > > > > Henry, please tell your governor/friend, Michelle Lujan Grisham, ?We see > her, we hear her, we love her, and we know we need her.? > > > > Groups here that made good use of allies before the pandemic are making > good, well-planned use of us now, especially for those in the shadows, by > necessity or oversight, to address basic food and medical insecurity. > > > > And thank you, too, Henry and others on xmca. > > > > Relatively healthy (AKA no Co-vid19 that we know of and well masked ? my > favorite right now is an easily washed and bleached homemade one with a > blue lamb motive ? anyone need a pdf for making adult or child masks, with > or without hepa-filters?) and safe, > > Peg > > > > *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [ > mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu ] *On > Behalf Of *HENRY SHONERD > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 8, 2020 12:48 PM > *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? > > > > Hi All, > > Like Greg, I was struck by Andy?s sense that China may go back to ?normal? > but the neo-liberal ?first" world is and will be experiencing a profound > perizhvanie. You?d hope it will be for the good. > > > > In the U.S,, generally, rates of infection are positively correlated with > density of population. For example, I live in New Mexico, the fifth largest > state in the U.S. with a population of a little over a one million and the > lowest rate of infection?so far. However, our Navajo live spread out to the > west and north of us, but have very high rates of infection. Little Zia > Pueblo, just an our by car to the north and west of us, only has about a > thousand people, with eleven confirmed cases. Poverty. In the country as a > whole people of color have relatively higher rates of infection. Poverty. > > > > Our governor, Michelle Lujan Grisham (who I am proud to say is a good > friend), has been successful in pushing baci against Trump?s efforts to > punish states that did not vote for him by being less than cooperative in > providing resources against the pandemic. She has been using her bully > pulpit against Trump's bloviating. His hot air has got to be an infectious > agent. Most of us are using masks in public, evidence indicating that it > protects OTHERS by wearing them. Trump prefers NOT to wear a mask. > Consistent with his politics. You can?t make this up. > > > > Be well, > > Henry > > > > > > On Apr 8, 2020, at 9:00 AM, Greg Thompson > wrote: > > > > David, > > > > I wonder if you could say more about your experience of the state-based > "surveillance" in SK. There are lots of different groups in the U.S., both > on the left and the right, who are up in arms about the "tracking" of > citizens via credit card and cell phone usage. > > > > And it sounds like this is a global concern as Mary's report from SA > suggests. > > > > Also how interesting how similar the conspiracy theories are around the > globe (globalization and the spread of viral ideas?). That's world > perezhivanie indeed! > > > > -greg > > > > On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 3:08 PM David Kellogg wrote: > > Helena-- > > > > Situation in China, courtesy my sister-in-law: life in Beijing is pretty > much back to normal at least on the face of it. People are going out to > their work units (but there is more work from home than before the > crisis). Classes still largely taught from ZOOM. My nephew is in > Shanghai, where the situation is somewhat tighter (proximity to > Wuhan). Wuhan opened up for real yesterday--people can leave (I lived there > for two years in the mid-eighties, but I can barely recognize what I see on > the news now....) I have students in Chengdu (who attend my class via > ZOOM). People are mostly shopping on line with delivery to the gate of the > housing unit rather than to their flat (as we do here in Korea). Air > quality better than it's been in decades. > > > > Situation here in South Korea: We just extended our lockdown for another > two weeks. This is in response to a few days of new infections over a > hundred, but the infections are mostly (80%) Koreans from the US and Europe > who want to live in a place where the medical system has not broken down or > is not in the process of breaking down. There are still some "hotspots" of > community transmission, but these are almost all connected with churches or > PC cafes. Schools reopen on the 16th, but only online. We have elections in > a week, and there is a lot of campaigning going on, including the usual > street based campaigning (the right wing opposition campaigns around the > curious notion that the government has done absolutely nothing, and the > government ignores everybody who is not an actual virus). People shop in > stores, and there is no panic buying or disruption of supply chains. The > main changes in economic life seem to have to do with transport, and it > seems like this too will be permanent (electric scooters are everywhere > now). Bowing instead of shaking hands is really not a bad idea, and > coffee-shops always were over-rated and over-priced.... > > > > But what about you, Helena? (One of the things I have learned on this list > is that you get more or less what you give--people tend to use what you > write as a model for writing back!) Are you still in Vietnam? Your address > says Berkeley and your email says Illinois--those are three very different > venues for the virus and the economy. Can you give us a brief account of > the situation in each? > > > > Stay safe, wherever you are! > > > David Kellogg > > Sangmyung University > > > > Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of *Critical > Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational > action research * > > in *Mind Culture and Activity* > > > > *https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847* > > > > > Some free e-prints available at: > > > > > https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 > > > > > New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works > Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" > > > > https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 4:30 AM Martin Packer wrote: > > Hi Helena, > > > > I share your concerns. And, despite its challenges, this situation seems a > great opportunity to apply our distributed expertise(s). I tried to get > some discussion going in a group concerned with the Anthropocene, but > people seemed disinclined. > > > > Martin > > > > Here?s the first message that I sent? > > > > The current situation is producing important evidence about the probable > consequences of the strategies proposed to mitigate climate change. > Satellites are showing significant reductions in pollution: > > > https://www.space.com/italy-coronavirus-outbreak-response-reduces-emissions-satellite-images.html > > > Experts are suggesting that as a result the coronavirus may save more > lives than it takes: > > > https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2020/03/11/coronavirus-lockdown-may-save-more-lives-from-pollution-and-climate-than-from-virus/#4a39bb3c5764 > > > So when skeptics ask ?How can you know that reducing air travel will help > with climate change?? there is now clear evidence with which to answer them. > > > > Also in China: > > > https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/04/811019032/why-chinas-air-has-been-cleaner-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak > > > > > At the same time, I am starting to wonder whether the current health > guidelines regarding coronvirus are culturally biased. Can they work in > ?collectivist? cultures (to use the shorthand)? The CDC guidelines, for > example, include the recommendations to ?Stay home when you are sick,? but > also that other members of the household should ?Avoid close contact with > people who are sick? and should ?Choose a room in your home that can be > used to separate sick household members from those who are healthy. > Identify a separate bathroom for the sick person to use, if possible.? > > This advice is simply not practicable for many households in Colombia. > There are not enough rooms; there is no second bathroom. In addition, many > infants and young children here are cared for by grandparents, or even > great-grandparents (many women here have a baby when young, so an infant > may have a grandmother who is in her late 30s and a great-grandmother in > her late 50s). The evidence shows that children don?t become very ill, but > they do get infected and they can infect other people, among whom elderly > caregivers will be the most at risk. > > So I don?t think social distance and auto-quarantine will work in > Colombia. Consider what the Chinese did: they went door-to-door to identify > infected family members and removed them to massive collective quarantine > setttings. People in the West considered this to be draconian, even cruel. > But it made sense: much more cross-infection occurred in Chinese homes than > in places like restaurants. > > Unless the authorities can come up with strategies that are more > appropriate to local circumstances and practices, there is likely to be a > rapid and elevated peak of infections in Latin American countries. > > > > And I see there is a related point here, on ageism: > > https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200313155256.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 7, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Helena Worthen > wrote: > > > > Hello, XMCA-ers - > > > > I don?t remember ever having read that this list was going to shut down or > even be allowed to fade away. So now I?m writing, as if in the dark, to the > whole list. We?ve now got a major ? maybe ?the? major crisis of the > anthropocene on our hands and the distant but connected network represented > by the conversations on this list seem to me to be a treasure more precious > than gold - and I?m not speaking metaphorically. > > > > I am concerned about some of the people who have been pillars and > resources on his list, people whom I have reached out to over the years and > heard back from with information and perspectives that I would never have > been able to access on my own. Where are you now? What are you doing? Are > you safe and healthy? Do you have information about friends who are unable > to read or respond to this request? > > > > I hope to hear some responses to this message. > > > > Take care of yourselves, please ? > > > > Helena > > > > > > Helena Worthen > > hworthen@illinois.edu > > 21 San Mateo Road, Berkeley, CA 94707 > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > > Assistant Professor > > Department of Anthropology > > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > > Brigham Young University > > Provo, UT 84602 > > WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson > > > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > > > > -- Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a landslide. Roy D'Andrade --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200410/6b9e0605/attachment-0001.html From helenaworthen@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 13:05:34 2020 From: helenaworthen@gmail.com (Helena Worthen) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 13:05:34 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> <001301d60dcb$0b376430$21a62c90$@att.net> <7F97CF82-25AF-4388-98AC-D6A838CA008F@gmail.com> <000001d60df4$f492efe0$ddb8cfa0$@att.net> <000201d60eae$9ef9d5c0$dced8140$@att.net> <62CFE8B1-276D-4C4C-90CF-C1E3C3352418@gmail.com> <000601d60f58$bc76cf90$35646eb0$@att.net> Message-ID: <42648D96-D18D-4CC9-8F8B-0CD6F6E7AD46@gmail.com> This is a gracefully written New Yorker-worthy piece of dark dystopian fiction. I would like to start up the whole Utopia discussion again, which I never felt clamped its teeth down hard enough.Thanks, David. I am seeing responses from David Kellogg, Peg Griffin, Mike Cole, Greg Thompson, Rein Raud in Estonia, David Kirshner, Ed Wall, Henry Shoner, Andy Blunden, Martin Packer in Bogota, Richard Beach ? who did I miss? There are more of us out there. I worry about Haydi in Iran. I am swamped with Zoom, telephone and email. Rather than clog up this list I?ll re-visit my blog (below) just in case anyone reads it ? this is with regards to the price of vegetables, David Kellogg. Other than that: the book about contingency goes back through 4 past transitions in higher education: standardization (Carnegie, SATs etc); expansion (the GI bill); the Movement era (civil rights, 1968, etc) and then the neoliberal contraction, for which the explosion of contingency (no job security/no academic freedom, crap wages) was a solution to a set of interlocking administrative problems. WE then go into a lot of detail about what organizing unions for faculty and campus workers in higher education is like. Thanks for asking, David. I?m doing Zoom piano lessons for grandchildren, in hopes that they will come out of this with at least one skill that is useful to humanity. Also working with DSA (Democratic Socialists of America) to lead reading groups about the recent wave of teacher strikes. Still owe Andy a review of his Hegel book; thanks for uploading the difference between Hegel and Marx paper, Andy. There are still some more xmca-ers out there that haven't checked in. Helena Worthen 21 San MAteo Road, Berkeley 94707 510-828-2745 helenaworthen.wordpress.com > On Apr 10, 2020, at 12:39 PM, mike cole wrote: > > The new samizdat, David? > mike > > On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 10:31 AM David H Kirshner > wrote: > Here?s a fictional reminder of what more may be at stake in the current political era. > > https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/04/06/love-letter > David > > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > On Behalf Of Peg Griffin, Ph.D. > Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 11:55 AM > To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? > > > > Henry, > > Only thing I know for sure about any bill is this: If it doesn?t serve well the top 1%, then McConnell won?t have it come to the floor for a vote in the Senate, so many reasonably good bills are never enacted and no Senator or President need be held accountable about their opposition. > > > > But, what I know about intersectional groups in the past few years is that we have to reach out in any and all ways possible to be sure we do not step on each other?s messages, actions, and needs, and to be sure we have ways of getting and giving timely support as allies. > > > > It sounds wimpy for a bumper sticker, but I wish I had one that said ?Protect Fragile Solidarity!? > > I think we may be inching in that awkward direction though: SPLC has normalized the bumper sticker, ?Restore the Vote.? > > Peg > > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu ] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD > Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 12:05 AM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? > > > > Peg, > > I really don?t know anymore about life on the Rez now than what I read on line, what I have heard on Native America Calling on our local public radio station KUNM and what I hear from my Navajo Family near Shiprock. So far, no one in my family there is sick. I have no insider information that might help pull the right strings in DC. Deb Haaland sends out regular bulletins describing what she is doing to benefit all New Mexicans, no specific mention of what?s happening on the Navajo. You know more about the bills than I do! > > Henry > > > > > > On Apr 9, 2020, at 2:36 PM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. > wrote: > > > > Henry, may I ask you to discuss Co-Vid 19 in the Navajo Nation? From news reports the Nation seems to be proactive, trying new and old ways of proceeding. But, in comparison to nearby states, more and deeper problems faced with fewer and less stable resources? DC got robbed in the second bailout bill ? way underfunded. Plans are getting formed and deformed about pushing for fixes in the next bill (now in messes in both House and Senate). Do you know if there are any Navajo plans that DC folk can support, maybe learn from (or at least stop from inadvertently stepping on?) Is staff in Deb Haaland?s office in the HOB a good place to try to find out or ?? > > > > A good fantasy about November, Henry. Somehow, it reminds me of the early days in the Fifth Dimension. The children engaged in transformational journeys, taking their avatars through rooms in a table top maze, choosing which of several openings they would use as entry and eventual exit, choosing which of different tasks in the room to do (harder tasks coupled with more choice over which exits from room they could use), collaborating with peers and lovely Big Sisters and Brothers, and there was always the Wizard ?guardian or trickster or sometimes asleep at the wheel. At an exit, avatars transformed and children went to the creature store to pick the token of the transformation to travel with if they chose to enter the 5th D again. > > > > But there was also a different world with university and public school calendars and rites of passage. At times for seams important to that world, the children got shirts screen-printed with words ranging from ?I conquered the 5thdimension? ?I barely survived the 5th Dimension? ?I almost survived the 5th Dimension? and so on ?I?m in the middle? ?I?m just starting?? A child reviewed the prior period of time, negotiating which words would be on their shirt. (Of all the weird things in the 5th D, Mike laughs best about the carefully differentiated shirts.) > > > > So, how about you and I in the here(s) and now(s)? We make choice after choice after choice and work hard at enough to transform the current elected officials to try to choose better creatures as we exit this iteration of a government and enter again for choices and tasks in the next iteration. Concurrently, we have to keep our eye on the prize of the CoVid 19 pandemic world and survival in it. > > > > BTW, I do live inside the Beltway ? 12 blocks north and east of Union Station. The museums, the food, and the HOBs (House Office Buildings) ? as well as the SOBs across the capitol park ? all nearby, familiar sites of camaraderie for efforts, some successful and some not so much. > > > > Peg > > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu ] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD > Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 7:52 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? > > > > I was born at Mercy Hospital in Washington DC. Do you actually live inside the Beltway? Great museums there and food. Scads of family from both Judy?s and my side. One of the last times I visited there, I went to Michelle?s office: She was our representative at the time. She gets around. > > > > I have this fantasy brought on by the pandemic and New Mexico?s Blue (Democratic) sweep in 2018 that brought us three kick-ass women: Governor Michelle...Representative Deborah Halland for Albuquerque and surrounds where we live (I canvassed for her in the primary!)?and Representative Xochi Small to the south. All Democrats. The fantasy is that these historic times, this perizhvanie, this Lev budding, will bear fruit in November that gets us through another narrow place. And we will celebrate. Fitting that Passover is tonight, a celebration of liberation from slavery, and a time when we recognize that we are all really strangers, wherever we live. > > > > Yikes! Talk about Biblical dialect! It?s as catching as that Corona bug! > > > > Must stay well > > Henry > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 8, 2020, at 4:27 PM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. > wrote: > > > > I live in Washington, DC, Henry, but my roots here are by way of LCHC in San Diego which begot xlchc which begot xmca. Don?t know why I switched into a biblical dialect, but not hallucinations, just whimsy. And a little tired this evening. > > Did you notice how my motif in my last post turned unto motive when I sent it? I think it was Leonti?ev sneaking in. > > The description of your mask seems dashing! Could Judy have alternative (or ulterior) motive (or motif)? > > Hmmm, just recognized the 5th Dimension wanting into the lineage recital. Still no hallucination just a few sips of a nice Tuscan blend? > > Peg > > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu ] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD > Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 5:14 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? > > > > Hey Peg! > > Yes, I will tell Governor Michelle you?re rooting for her from where you and yours are at! Please forgive my senior moment, but where do YOU live? > > > > My wife Judy figured out how to make a mask from a bandana and two hair ties. Like I?m ready to rob the stage coach, full of ppe (personal protective equipment).:) I saw a cartoon of Trump and his underlings at one of his you-can?t-make-it-up briefings. They are wearing masks that cover nose and mouth. Trump has a Lone Ranger mask. Here?s a link for those short on Americana: > > https://www.pinterest.com/robertharmon311/lone-ranger-mask-patterns-for-save-ranger-challeng/ > > > Stay safe and well! > > Henry > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 8, 2020, at 11:27 AM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. > wrote: > > > > Henry, please tell your governor/friend, Michelle Lujan Grisham, ?We see her, we hear her, we love her, and we know we need her.? > > > > Groups here that made good use of allies before the pandemic are making good, well-planned use of us now, especially for those in the shadows, by necessity or oversight, to address basic food and medical insecurity. > > > > And thank you, too, Henry and others on xmca. > > > > Relatively healthy (AKA no Co-vid19 that we know of and well masked ? my favorite right now is an easily washed and bleached homemade one with a blue lamb motive ? anyone need a pdf for making adult or child masks, with or without hepa-filters?) and safe, > > Peg > > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu ] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD > Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 12:48 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? > > > > Hi All, > > Like Greg, I was struck by Andy?s sense that China may go back to ?normal? but the neo-liberal ?first" world is and will be experiencing a profound perizhvanie. You?d hope it will be for the good. > > > > In the U.S,, generally, rates of infection are positively correlated with density of population. For example, I live in New Mexico, the fifth largest state in the U.S. with a population of a little over a one million and the lowest rate of infection?so far. However, our Navajo live spread out to the west and north of us, but have very high rates of infection. Little Zia Pueblo, just an our by car to the north and west of us, only has about a thousand people, with eleven confirmed cases. Poverty. In the country as a whole people of color have relatively higher rates of infection. Poverty. > > > > Our governor, Michelle Lujan Grisham (who I am proud to say is a good friend), has been successful in pushing baci against Trump?s efforts to punish states that did not vote for him by being less than cooperative in providing resources against the pandemic. She has been using her bully pulpit against Trump's bloviating. His hot air has got to be an infectious agent. Most of us are using masks in public, evidence indicating that it protects OTHERS by wearing them. Trump prefers NOT to wear a mask. Consistent with his politics. You can?t make this up. > > > > Be well, > > Henry > > > > > > > On Apr 8, 2020, at 9:00 AM, Greg Thompson > wrote: > > > > David, > > > > I wonder if you could say more about your experience of the state-based "surveillance" in SK. There are lots of different groups in the U.S., both on the left and the right, who are up in arms about the "tracking" of citizens via credit card and cell phone usage. > > > > And it sounds like this is a global concern as Mary's report from SA suggests. > > > > Also how interesting how similar the conspiracy theories are around the globe (globalization and the spread of viral ideas?). That's world perezhivanie indeed! > > > > -greg > > > > On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 3:08 PM David Kellogg > wrote: > > Helena-- > > > > Situation in China, courtesy my sister-in-law: life in Beijing is pretty much back to normal at least on the face of it. People are going out to their work units (but there is more work from home than before the crisis). Classes still largely taught from ZOOM. My nephew is in Shanghai, where the situation is somewhat tighter (proximity to Wuhan). Wuhan opened up for real yesterday--people can leave (I lived there for two years in the mid-eighties, but I can barely recognize what I see on the news now....) I have students in Chengdu (who attend my class via ZOOM). People are mostly shopping on line with delivery to the gate of the housing unit rather than to their flat (as we do here in Korea). Air quality better than it's been in decades. > > > > Situation here in South Korea: We just extended our lockdown for another two weeks. This is in response to a few days of new infections over a hundred, but the infections are mostly (80%) Koreans from the US and Europe who want to live in a place where the medical system has not broken down or is not in the process of breaking down. There are still some "hotspots" of community transmission, but these are almost all connected with churches or PC cafes. Schools reopen on the 16th, but only online. We have elections in a week, and there is a lot of campaigning going on, including the usual street based campaigning (the right wing opposition campaigns around the curious notion that the government has done absolutely nothing, and the government ignores everybody who is not an actual virus). People shop in stores, and there is no panic buying or disruption of supply chains. The main changes in economic life seem to have to do with transport, and it seems like this too will be permanent (electric scooters are everywhere now). Bowing instead of shaking hands is really not a bad idea, and coffee-shops always were over-rated and over-priced.... > > > > But what about you, Helena? (One of the things I have learned on this list is that you get more or less what you give--people tend to use what you write as a model for writing back!) Are you still in Vietnam? Your address says Berkeley and your email says Illinois--those are three very different venues for the virus and the economy. Can you give us a brief account of the situation in each? > > > > Stay safe, wherever you are! > > > > David Kellogg > > Sangmyung University > > > > Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational action research > > in Mind Culture and Activity > > > > https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 > > > Some free e-prints available at: > > > > https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 > > > New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" > > > > https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 > > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 4:30 AM Martin Packer > wrote: > > Hi Helena, > > > > I share your concerns. And, despite its challenges, this situation seems a great opportunity to apply our distributed expertise(s). I tried to get some discussion going in a group concerned with the Anthropocene, but people seemed disinclined. > > > > Martin > > > > Here?s the first message that I sent? > > > > The current situation is producing important evidence about the probable consequences of the strategies proposed to mitigate climate change. Satellites are showing significant reductions in pollution: > > https://www.space.com/italy-coronavirus-outbreak-response-reduces-emissions-satellite-images.html > Experts are suggesting that as a result the coronavirus may save more lives than it takes: > > https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2020/03/11/coronavirus-lockdown-may-save-more-lives-from-pollution-and-climate-than-from-virus/#4a39bb3c5764 > So when skeptics ask ?How can you know that reducing air travel will help with climate change?? there is now clear evidence with which to answer them. > > > > Also in China: > > https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/04/811019032/why-chinas-air-has-been-cleaner-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak > > > At the same time, I am starting to wonder whether the current health guidelines regarding coronvirus are culturally biased. Can they work in ?collectivist? cultures (to use the shorthand)? The CDC guidelines, for example, include the recommendations to ?Stay home when you are sick,? but also that other members of the household should ?Avoid close contact with people who are sick? and should ?Choose a room in your home that can be used to separate sick household members from those who are healthy. Identify a separate bathroom for the sick person to use, if possible.? > > This advice is simply not practicable for many households in Colombia. There are not enough rooms; there is no second bathroom. In addition, many infants and young children here are cared for by grandparents, or even great-grandparents (many women here have a baby when young, so an infant may have a grandmother who is in her late 30s and a great-grandmother in her late 50s). The evidence shows that children don?t become very ill, but they do get infected and they can infect other people, among whom elderly caregivers will be the most at risk. > > So I don?t think social distance and auto-quarantine will work in Colombia. Consider what the Chinese did: they went door-to-door to identify infected family members and removed them to massive collective quarantine setttings. People in the West considered this to be draconian, even cruel. But it made sense: much more cross-infection occurred in Chinese homes than in places like restaurants. > > Unless the authorities can come up with strategies that are more appropriate to local circumstances and practices, there is likely to be a rapid and elevated peak of infections in Latin American countries. > > > > And I see there is a related point here, on ageism: > > https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200313155256.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 7, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Helena Worthen > wrote: > > > > Hello, XMCA-ers - > > > > I don?t remember ever having read that this list was going to shut down or even be allowed to fade away. So now I?m writing, as if in the dark, to the whole list. We?ve now got a major ? maybe ?the? major crisis of the anthropocene on our hands and the distant but connected network represented by the conversations on this list seem to me to be a treasure more precious than gold - and I?m not speaking metaphorically. > > > > I am concerned about some of the people who have been pillars and resources on his list, people whom I have reached out to over the years and heard back from with information and perspectives that I would never have been able to access on my own. Where are you now? What are you doing? Are you safe and healthy? Do you have information about friends who are unable to read or respond to this request? > > > > I hope to hear some responses to this message. > > > > Take care of yourselves, please ? > > > > Helena > > > > > > Helena Worthen > > hworthen@illinois.edu > 21 San Mateo Road, Berkeley, CA 94707 > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > > Assistant Professor > > Department of Anthropology > > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > > Brigham Young University > > Provo, UT 84602 > > WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > > > > > -- > Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a landslide. Roy D'Andrade > --------------------------------------------------- > For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit > lchc.ucsd.edu . For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu . > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200410/e3ae8fc6/attachment.html From feine@duq.edu Fri Apr 10 13:14:54 2020 From: feine@duq.edu (Dr. Elizabeth Fein) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 20:14:54 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: [External] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <7F97CF82-25AF-4388-98AC-D6A838CA008F@gmail.com> <000201d60eae$9ef9d5c0$dced8140$@att.net> <62CFE8B1-276D-4C4C-90CF-C1E3C3352418@gmail.com> <6F3B64BE-7924-4166-A72C-D25513F262E5@tlu.ee>, Message-ID: Hello all - Longtime lurker on this list, emerging occasionally to send little dispatches from SQIP. But I read much of what comes through. I'm in Pittsburgh, in a small neighborhood whose close connections make me feel both immense gratitude and wonderment. Every day as I drink my morning coffee I write a few pages in a notebook, and recently those have been taken up with these questions: what do I do? Or as Mike puts it, what can we do, whoever we is, or are? The question I keep coming back to, and that I encountered so often in my work with people shaded under the umbrella of the "autism spectrum" diagnosis that brought me to this list, is how do we relearn the ability to think of ourselves in terms of a we - one that is neither confined to the claustrophobic intimacy of the dyad nor lost in the abstractions of national identity or homogenizing social structures, but that occupies some space in between. This "larger social unit" that David evoked in that earlier email, which - in being neither binary nor undifferentiated (not the one or the one-and-the-other or the all, but the several) - seems like it itself teaches us to think about our place in space and time and history in a distinct way. I'm excited, in a way that had been hard for me to access in the last few days, about the possibility of engaging the wisdom of this list in this and other projects. Wishing you well, Elizabeth ________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of mike cole Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 2:22 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [External] [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Hi Rein -- Its great to hear from Estonia. The Tulvistas used to be contributors to this conversation, back in the day. Your cultural-historical tradition, entwined with your semiotics, educate us all. How are you and your social circle thinkig about the current historical crisis/crises in terms of the future of democracy and debates about what follows in terms of possible forms of political economy.? I am "seeing" a very strong movement on the part of my government to fulfill our founding fathers's single worst nightmare: That a president would become king, and the states his vassals. This imagining is reinforced almost daily as I scan the horizon. A new form of nationalist authoritarianism. I might even live long enough to experience it. As critical, committed, cultural-historical, social scientists, who teach in universities tasked with creating and "transmitting" our knowledge to next generations, what special skills do we bring to our social roles and its obligations? Beth has described going through a qualitative transformation in her social role that is tightly bound to her obligations to her students and their students. David points to a future in which classroom spaces will not be used for their designed purposes for at least 2-3 years, assuming a globally distributed vaccine, or else it will be entirely a form of distance education that the world has never before experienced. Either way, inequalities will be exacerbated. etc. You all of this. So what can WE do (whoever we is?). Here is what I imagine from the perspective of a vulnerable 82 year old and almost four decades of xlchc-->xmca: Many people associated with XMCA, and many more who are associated with a variety of allied enterprises, have for decades become "experts" in the design of new forms of educational activity (or medical activity, or milk delivery men's mathematical practices, or tailors eeking out a living in an impoverished country) If I were a youngster and into branding, I might say that CHAT is expert in creating hybrid,multimedia, systems of activity, ones that afford the design of the kind of "heterogeneous attunement." -- the kind of attunement that promotes learning and development in zones of proxmal development. However, I am not a youngster and my plate was pretty full before this second shock wave, I am thinking about this as an "act locally but think globally" way to deal with a world where people must band together but can only survive by their networked ties to other. XMCA may not be the best place to discuss such matters. Your note with its "two kinds of social distancing" set me off. Here the medium seems to promote forms of chaining that leave only buried traces of the by-passed links. Then they silence those who feel disempowered by the male-domination. whiteness and status that have been apparently unstoppable although it is not the wish of any of those who participate. This happens not just on xmca, but in other fora where everyone does not want it to happen. My hope is that Cultural Praxis, which the MCA editors are re-vivifying, will provide more tools to ensure that we retain the diversity essential to any sort of cultural-historical theorizing or practicing. My whole ruble mike PS- How do we hybridize your two kinds of social distancing to create effect environments for education? On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 1:30 AM Rein Raud > wrote: Hi everyone, Sorry for not having been very active lately, as I?ve been submerged in lots of reading and writing, and the situation with the crisis has created an even more conducive atmosphere for that. In Estonia, the situation is more or less under control, and social distancing has been in our second nature for ages, although now that it is encouraged, it is suddenly no longer so natural. Stay safe and keep up the good work! With best wishes, Rein ********************************************** Rein Raud Professor of Asian and Cultural Studies, Tallinn University Uus-Sadama 5, Tallinn 10120 Estonia www.reinraud.com ?Meaning in Action: Outline of an Integral Theory of Culture?(Polity 2016) ?Practices of Selfhood? (with Zygmunt Bauman, Polity 2015) -- Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a landslide. Roy D'Andrade --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200410/0a90a896/attachment.html From dkellogg60@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 15:54:26 2020 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 07:54:26 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] =?utf-8?q?Lucien_S=C3=A8ve?= Message-ID: A few days ago I wrote to Lucien to ask him to contribute a blurb for our new book and uncharacteristically got no reply. With some trepidation I looked at his Wikipedia page (he is an extremely well known philosopher in Francophonia). He died of Covid 19 on the 23 of March. Professor Seve was a great Marxist and a great militant: he and his wife did more than anyone else to make the work of Vygotsky known in France and Switzerland. One of his last writings will be appearing soon in MCA. David Kellogg Sangmyung University Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of *Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational action research' in Mind Culture and Activity* https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 Some free e-prints available at: https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200411/1abda55c/attachment.html From mcole@ucsd.edu Fri Apr 10 16:06:58 2020 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 16:06:58 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: =?utf-8?q?Lucien_S=C3=A8ve?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Oh! What an untimely loss, just when we hoped that the special mca issue on pedology would promote a deeper understanding Vygotsky's project as a unified whole with Seve's discussion as major piece. :-( mike On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 3:59 PM David Kellogg wrote: > A few days ago I wrote to Lucien to ask him to contribute a blurb for our > new book and uncharacteristically got no reply. With some trepidation I > looked at his Wikipedia page (he is an extremely well known philosopher in > Francophonia). He died of Covid 19 on the 23 of March. > > Professor Seve was a great Marxist and a great militant: he and his wife > did more than anyone else to make the work of Vygotsky known in France and > Switzerland. One of his last writings will be appearing soon in MCA. > > David Kellogg > Sangmyung University > > Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of *Critical > Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational > action research' in Mind Culture and Activity* > > https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 > > Some free e-prints available at: > > > https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 > > New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works > Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" > > https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 > > -- Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a landslide. Roy D'Andrade --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200410/2fa2986b/attachment.html From a.j.gil@ils.uio.no Fri Apr 10 16:11:33 2020 From: a.j.gil@ils.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 23:11:33 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: =?utf-8?q?Lucien_S=C3=A8ve?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Oh gosh, I am so sorry to hear those very sad news... really crucial figure for our francophone colleagues, a great loss. Alfredo On 11 Apr 2020, at 01:01, David Kellogg wrote: ? A few days ago I wrote to Lucien to ask him to contribute a blurb for our new book and uncharacteristically got no reply. With some trepidation I looked at his Wikipedia page (he is an extremely well known philosopher in Francophonia). He died of Covid 19 on the 23 of March. Professor Seve was a great Marxist and a great militant: he and his wife did more than anyone else to make the work of Vygotsky known in France and Switzerland. One of his last writings will be appearing soon in MCA. David Kellogg Sangmyung University Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational action research' in Mind Culture and Activity https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 Some free e-prints available at: https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200410/e86a19a0/attachment.html From ulvi.icil@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 16:12:51 2020 From: ulvi.icil@gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?VWx2aSDEsMOnaWw=?=) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 02:12:51 +0300 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: =?utf-8?q?Lucien_S=C3=A8ve?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: David, I knew Lucien Seve's writings, thanks to my French, without having the oportunity to read them, when I've got curious about Vygotsky literature. I had the immediate impression that he is an important Marxist intellectual. Hoping to read his work in memoriam. Ulvi On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 at 02:09, mike cole wrote: > Oh! What an untimely loss, just when we hoped that the special mca issue > on pedology would promote a > deeper understanding Vygotsky's project as a unified whole with Seve's > discussion as major piece. > :-( > mike > > On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 3:59 PM David Kellogg > wrote: > >> A few days ago I wrote to Lucien to ask him to contribute a blurb for our >> new book and uncharacteristically got no reply. With some trepidation I >> looked at his Wikipedia page (he is an extremely well known philosopher in >> Francophonia). He died of Covid 19 on the 23 of March. >> >> Professor Seve was a great Marxist and a great militant: he and his wife >> did more than anyone else to make the work of Vygotsky known in France and >> Switzerland. One of his last writings will be appearing soon in MCA. >> >> David Kellogg >> Sangmyung University >> >> Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of *Critical >> Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational >> action research' in Mind Culture and Activity* >> >> https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 >> >> Some free e-prints available at: >> >> >> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 >> >> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works >> Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" >> >> https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 >> >> > > -- > Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a > landslide. Roy D'Andrade > --------------------------------------------------- > For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other > members of LCHC, visit > lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the > research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200411/42592982/attachment.html From zaza.kabayadondo@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 16:42:53 2020 From: zaza.kabayadondo@gmail.com (Zaza Kabayadondo) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 16:42:53 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: [External] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <7F97CF82-25AF-4388-98AC-D6A838CA008F@gmail.com> <000201d60eae$9ef9d5c0$dced8140$@att.net> <62CFE8B1-276D-4C4C-90CF-C1E3C3352418@gmail.com> <6F3B64BE-7924-4166-A72C-D25513F262E5@tlu.ee> Message-ID: Hello all, I am also a lurker on this list. I'm reporting from San Jose, California. I have been following the resources, discussions, and arguments since I was a graduate student at Stanford. The resources were so so helpful in getting me to the finish line on my thesis. One of my chapters (on prototyping in Zimbabwe) was published on MCA thanks you all the encouragement from Mike Cole. After graduating I worked at Smith College starting up their design program and teaching students and faculty how to use prototyping in their practice. I left academia, out of dismay at how much of the agenda within the university is shaped by high net wealth individuals. I started working at a consulting company focused on higher education, thinking this would get me closer to the ground. We advise college presidents on strategy. The pandemic has been a mess. Most are confused, scared, worried. Some are pretending it's business as usual. There are a lot of ambulance chasers. There are also a lot of visionaries for whom the crisis makes it easier to push forward initiatives that have long stalled. I've been working with a young man based in Nairobi. He's 21, brilliant, highly accomplished and reached out to me to get advice on deciding to go to college. He had taken several years off to follow his passion. He has been building an education initiative that gets local kids excited about developing sustainable solutions to local problems. Their curriculum would make Luria proud. Because of the shelter in place mandate in my county, and a flexible work schedule, I've had more time to Zoom with him. I took advantage of that to introduce him to Karl Marx. Here's to the next generation! Sincerely, Zaza On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 1:17 PM Dr. Elizabeth Fein wrote: > Hello all - > Longtime lurker on this list, emerging occasionally to send little > dispatches from SQIP. But I read much of what comes through. I'm in > Pittsburgh, in a small neighborhood whose close connections make me feel > both immense gratitude and wonderment. > > Every day as I drink my morning coffee I write a few pages in a notebook, > and recently those have been taken up with these questions: what do I *do*? > Or as Mike puts it, what can *we* do, whoever we is, or are? The question > I keep coming back to, and that I encountered so often in my work with > people shaded under the umbrella of the "autism spectrum" diagnosis that > brought me to this list, is how do we relearn the ability to think of > ourselves in terms of a *we - * one that is neither confined to the > claustrophobic intimacy of the dyad nor lost in the abstractions of > national identity or homogenizing social structures, but that occupies some > space in between. This "larger social unit" that David evoked in that > earlier email, which - in being neither binary nor undifferentiated (not > the one or the one-and-the-other or the all, but the *several*) - seems > like it itself teaches us to think about our place in space and time and > history in a distinct way. I'm excited, in a way that had been hard for me > to access in the last few days, about the possibility of engaging the > wisdom of this list in this and other projects. > Wishing you well, > Elizabeth > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of mike cole > *Sent:* Friday, April 10, 2020 2:22 PM > *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > *Subject:* [External] [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? > > Hi Rein -- Its great to hear from Estonia. The Tulvistas used to be > contributors to this conversation, back in the day. Your > cultural-historical > tradition, entwined with your semiotics, educate us all. > > How are you and your social circle thinkig about the current historical > crisis/crises in terms of the future of democracy and debates about what > follows in terms of possible forms of political economy.? I am "seeing" a > very strong movement on the part of my government to fulfill our founding > fathers's single worst nightmare: That a president would become king, and > the states his vassals. This imagining is reinforced almost daily as I scan > the horizon. A new form of nationalist authoritarianism. I might even > live long enough to experience it. > > As critical, committed, cultural-historical, social scientists, who teach > in universities tasked with creating and "transmitting" our knowledge to > next generations, > what special skills do we bring to our social roles and its obligations? > Beth has described going through a qualitative transformation in her social > role that is tightly > bound to her obligations to her students and their students. David points > to a future in which classroom spaces will not be used for their designed > purposes for > at least 2-3 years, assuming a globally distributed vaccine, or else it > will be entirely a form of distance education that the world has never > before experienced. > Either way, inequalities will be exacerbated. etc. You all of this. > > So what can WE do (whoever we is?). > Here is what I imagine from the perspective of a vulnerable 82 year old > and almost four decades of xlchc-->xmca: > Many people associated with XMCA, and many more who are associated with a > variety of allied enterprises, have for decades become > "experts" in the design of new forms of educational activity (or medical > activity, or milk delivery men's mathematical practices, or tailors eeking out > a > living in an impoverished country) > > If I were a youngster and into branding, I might say that CHAT is expert > in creating hybrid,multimedia, systems of activity, ones that afford the > design of > the kind of "heterogeneous attunement." -- the kind of attunement that > promotes learning and development in zones of proxmal development. > However, I am not a youngster and my plate was pretty full before this > second shock wave, > > I am thinking about this as an "act locally but think globally" way to > deal with a world where people must band together but can only survive by > their networked ties to other. > > XMCA may not be the best place to discuss such matters. Your note with its > "two kinds of social distancing" set me off. > Here the medium seems to promote forms of chaining that leave only buried > traces of the by-passed links. Then they silence > those who feel disempowered by the male-domination. whiteness and status > that have been apparently unstoppable although > it is not the wish of any of those who participate. This happens not just > on xmca, but in other fora where everyone does not want it to happen. > > My hope is that *Cultural Praxis, *which the MCA editors are > re-vivifying, will provide more tools to ensure that we retain the > diversity essential to any sort of cultural-historical theorizing or > practicing. > > My whole ruble > mike > PS- How do we hybridize your two kinds of social distancing to create > effect environments for education? > > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 1:30 AM Rein Raud wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > Sorry for not having been very active lately, as I?ve been submerged in > lots of reading and writing, and the situation with the crisis has created > an even more conducive atmosphere for that. In Estonia, the situation is > more or less under control, and social distancing has been in our second > nature for ages, although now that it is encouraged, it is suddenly no > longer so natural. > > Stay safe and keep up the good work! > > With best wishes, > > Rein > > > ********************************************** > Rein Raud > Professor of Asian and Cultural Studies, Tallinn University > Uus-Sadama 5, Tallinn 10120 Estonia > www.reinraud.com > > > > ?Meaning in Action: Outline of an Integral Theory of Culture?(Polity 2016) > > ?Practices of Selfhood? (with Zygmunt Bauman, Polity 2015) > > > > > > > -- > Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a > landslide. Roy D'Andrade > --------------------------------------------------- > For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other > members of LCHC, visit > lchc.ucsd.edu > . > For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, > visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu > > . > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200410/96f05ae2/attachment.html From mcole@ucsd.edu Fri Apr 10 17:22:43 2020 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 17:22:43 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: [External] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <7F97CF82-25AF-4388-98AC-D6A838CA008F@gmail.com> <000201d60eae$9ef9d5c0$dced8140$@att.net> <62CFE8B1-276D-4C4C-90CF-C1E3C3352418@gmail.com> <6F3B64BE-7924-4166-A72C-D25513F262E5@tlu.ee> Message-ID: Wonderful to hear from you Zaza! Do you guesstimate it will take Higher Ed several years to re-organize to the point where their accreditations are for real? Or that the credits will narrow in content, sapping them of the broad aims of education? If so, might not your skills find a home in a project for designing intermediate forms of activity for college students and grads? Seems like you should get to know Kris's Guiterrez's Prolepsis Design Group at Berkeley/CU Boulder. Their current course, started in January before covid-19 hit, is an eye opener in its ability to coordinate 40 or so academics from grad school to grave-approaching to think about the convergence between CHAT and Critical Learning Sciences. I believe they are planning a redesigned repeat for the fall. Don't be a stranger. *we *need you. mike PS-- Hopefully some working member of the professoriate present here an help your student. Sounds like a wonderful person to be around. So you are a perfect person to get a special interest group (or whatever the name is) going! On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 4:44 PM Zaza Kabayadondo wrote: > Hello all, > > I am also a lurker on this list. I'm reporting from San Jose, California. > I have been following the resources, discussions, and arguments since I was > a graduate student at Stanford. The resources were so so helpful in getting > me to the finish line on my thesis. One of my chapters (on prototyping in > Zimbabwe) was published on MCA thanks you all the encouragement from Mike > Cole. After graduating I worked at Smith College starting up their design > program and teaching students and faculty how to use prototyping in their > practice. I left academia, out of dismay at how much of the agenda within > the university is shaped by high net wealth individuals. I started working > at a consulting company focused on higher education, thinking this would > get me closer to the ground. We advise college presidents on strategy. The > pandemic has been a mess. Most are confused, scared, worried. Some are > pretending it's business as usual. There are a lot of ambulance chasers. > There are also a lot of visionaries for whom the crisis makes it easier to > push forward initiatives that have long stalled. > > I've been working with a young man based in Nairobi. He's 21, brilliant, > highly accomplished and reached out to me to get advice on deciding to go > to college. He had taken several years off to follow his passion. He has > been building an education initiative that gets local kids excited about > developing sustainable solutions to local problems. Their curriculum would > make Luria proud. Because of the shelter in place mandate in my county, and > a flexible work schedule, I've had more time to Zoom with him. I took > advantage of that to introduce him to Karl Marx. Here's to the next > generation! > > Sincerely, > > Zaza > > On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 1:17 PM Dr. Elizabeth Fein wrote: > >> Hello all - >> Longtime lurker on this list, emerging occasionally to send little >> dispatches from SQIP. But I read much of what comes through. I'm in >> Pittsburgh, in a small neighborhood whose close connections make me feel >> both immense gratitude and wonderment. >> >> Every day as I drink my morning coffee I write a few pages in a notebook, >> and recently those have been taken up with these questions: what do I >> *do*? Or as Mike puts it, what can *we* do, whoever we is, or are? The >> question I keep coming back to, and that I encountered so often in my work >> with people shaded under the umbrella of the "autism spectrum" diagnosis >> that brought me to this list, is how do we relearn the ability to think of >> ourselves in terms of a *we - * one that is neither confined to the >> claustrophobic intimacy of the dyad nor lost in the abstractions of >> national identity or homogenizing social structures, but that occupies some >> space in between. This "larger social unit" that David evoked in that >> earlier email, which - in being neither binary nor undifferentiated (not >> the one or the one-and-the-other or the all, but the *several*) - seems >> like it itself teaches us to think about our place in space and time and >> history in a distinct way. I'm excited, in a way that had been hard for me >> to access in the last few days, about the possibility of engaging the >> wisdom of this list in this and other projects. >> Wishing you well, >> Elizabeth >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> on behalf of mike cole >> *Sent:* Friday, April 10, 2020 2:22 PM >> *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >> *Subject:* [External] [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? >> >> Hi Rein -- Its great to hear from Estonia. The Tulvistas used to be >> contributors to this conversation, back in the day. Your >> cultural-historical >> tradition, entwined with your semiotics, educate us all. >> >> How are you and your social circle thinkig about the current historical >> crisis/crises in terms of the future of democracy and debates about what >> follows in terms of possible forms of political economy.? I am "seeing" a >> very strong movement on the part of my government to fulfill our founding >> fathers's single worst nightmare: That a president would become king, >> and the states his vassals. This imagining is reinforced almost daily as I >> scan >> the horizon. A new form of nationalist authoritarianism. I might even >> live long enough to experience it. >> >> As critical, committed, cultural-historical, social scientists, who teach >> in universities tasked with creating and "transmitting" our knowledge to >> next generations, >> what special skills do we bring to our social roles and its obligations? >> Beth has described going through a qualitative transformation in her social >> role that is tightly >> bound to her obligations to her students and their students. David points >> to a future in which classroom spaces will not be used for their designed >> purposes for >> at least 2-3 years, assuming a globally distributed vaccine, or else it >> will be entirely a form of distance education that the world has never >> before experienced. >> Either way, inequalities will be exacerbated. etc. You all of this. >> >> So what can WE do (whoever we is?). >> Here is what I imagine from the perspective of a vulnerable 82 year old >> and almost four decades of xlchc-->xmca: >> Many people associated with XMCA, and many more who are associated with a >> variety of allied enterprises, have for decades become >> "experts" in the design of new forms of educational activity (or medical >> activity, or milk delivery men's mathematical practices, or tailors eeking out >> a >> living in an impoverished country) >> >> If I were a youngster and into branding, I might say that CHAT is expert >> in creating hybrid,multimedia, systems of activity, ones that afford the >> design of >> the kind of "heterogeneous attunement." -- the kind of attunement that >> promotes learning and development in zones of proxmal development. >> However, I am not a youngster and my plate was pretty full before this >> second shock wave, >> >> I am thinking about this as an "act locally but think globally" way to >> deal with a world where people must band together but can only survive by >> their networked ties to other. >> >> XMCA may not be the best place to discuss such matters. Your note with >> its "two kinds of social distancing" set me off. >> Here the medium seems to promote forms of chaining that leave only buried >> traces of the by-passed links. Then they silence >> those who feel disempowered by the male-domination. whiteness and status >> that have been apparently unstoppable although >> it is not the wish of any of those who participate. This happens not just >> on xmca, but in other fora where everyone does not want it to happen. >> >> My hope is that *Cultural Praxis, *which the MCA editors are >> re-vivifying, will provide more tools to ensure that we retain the >> diversity essential to any sort of cultural-historical theorizing or >> practicing. >> >> My whole ruble >> mike >> PS- How do we hybridize your two kinds of social distancing to create >> effect environments for education? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 1:30 AM Rein Raud wrote: >> >> Hi everyone, >> >> Sorry for not having been very active lately, as I?ve been submerged in >> lots of reading and writing, and the situation with the crisis has created >> an even more conducive atmosphere for that. In Estonia, the situation is >> more or less under control, and social distancing has been in our second >> nature for ages, although now that it is encouraged, it is suddenly no >> longer so natural. >> >> Stay safe and keep up the good work! >> >> With best wishes, >> >> Rein >> >> >> ********************************************** >> Rein Raud >> Professor of Asian and Cultural Studies, Tallinn University >> Uus-Sadama 5, Tallinn 10120 Estonia >> www.reinraud.com >> >> >> >> ?Meaning in Action: Outline of an Integral Theory of Culture?(Polity 2016) >> >> ?Practices of Selfhood? (with Zygmunt Bauman, Polity 2015) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a >> landslide. Roy D'Andrade >> --------------------------------------------------- >> For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other >> members of LCHC, visit >> lchc.ucsd.edu >> . >> For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, >> visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu >> >> . >> >> >> -- Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a landslide. Roy D'Andrade --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200410/eda0a250/attachment.html From greg.a.thompson@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:39:38 2020 From: greg.a.thompson@gmail.com (Greg Thompson) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 18:39:38 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: [External] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <7F97CF82-25AF-4388-98AC-D6A838CA008F@gmail.com> <000201d60eae$9ef9d5c0$dced8140$@att.net> <62CFE8B1-276D-4C4C-90CF-C1E3C3352418@gmail.com> <6F3B64BE-7924-4166-A72C-D25513F262E5@tlu.ee> Message-ID: Mike, As to your ps, do you think that our universities really have anything to offer Zaza?s student other than a few letters after his name? Sounds like he?s already doing it. Dunno. Am I being too cynical? Greg On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 6:24 PM mike cole wrote: > Wonderful to hear from you Zaza! > > > Do you guesstimate it will take Higher Ed several years to re-organize to > the point where their accreditations are for real? Or that the credits will > narrow > in content, sapping them of the broad aims of education? If so, might > not your skills find a home in a project for designing intermediate forms > of activity > for college students and grads? Seems like you should get to know Kris's > Guiterrez's Prolepsis Design Group at Berkeley/CU Boulder. Their current > course, > started in January before covid-19 hit, is an eye opener in its ability > to coordinate 40 or so academics from grad school to grave-approaching > to think about the convergence between CHAT and Critical Learning Sciences. > I believe they are planning a redesigned repeat for the fall. > > Don't be a stranger. *we *need you. > > mike > > PS-- Hopefully some working member of the professoriate present here an > help your student. Sounds like a wonderful person to be around. > So you are a perfect person to get a special interest group (or whatever > the name is) going! > > On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 4:44 PM Zaza Kabayadondo < > zaza.kabayadondo@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hello all, >> >> I am also a lurker on this list. I'm reporting from San Jose, California. >> I have been following the resources, discussions, and arguments since I was >> a graduate student at Stanford. The resources were so so helpful in getting >> me to the finish line on my thesis. One of my chapters (on prototyping in >> Zimbabwe) was published on MCA thanks you all the encouragement from Mike >> Cole. After graduating I worked at Smith College starting up their design >> program and teaching students and faculty how to use prototyping in their >> practice. I left academia, out of dismay at how much of the agenda within >> the university is shaped by high net wealth individuals. I started working >> at a consulting company focused on higher education, thinking this would >> get me closer to the ground. We advise college presidents on strategy. The >> pandemic has been a mess. Most are confused, scared, worried. Some are >> pretending it's business as usual. There are a lot of ambulance chasers. >> There are also a lot of visionaries for whom the crisis makes it easier to >> push forward initiatives that have long stalled. >> >> I've been working with a young man based in Nairobi. He's 21, brilliant, >> highly accomplished and reached out to me to get advice on deciding to go >> to college. He had taken several years off to follow his passion. He has >> been building an education initiative that gets local kids excited about >> developing sustainable solutions to local problems. Their curriculum would >> make Luria proud. Because of the shelter in place mandate in my county, and >> a flexible work schedule, I've had more time to Zoom with him. I took >> advantage of that to introduce him to Karl Marx. Here's to the next >> generation! >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Zaza >> >> On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 1:17 PM Dr. Elizabeth Fein wrote: >> >>> Hello all - >>> Longtime lurker on this list, emerging occasionally to send little >>> dispatches from SQIP. But I read much of what comes through. I'm in >>> Pittsburgh, in a small neighborhood whose close connections make me feel >>> both immense gratitude and wonderment. >>> >>> Every day as I drink my morning coffee I write a few pages in a >>> notebook, and recently those have been taken up with these questions: what >>> do I *do*? Or as Mike puts it, what can *we* do, whoever we is, or are? >>> The question I keep coming back to, and that I encountered so often in my >>> work with people shaded under the umbrella of the "autism spectrum" >>> diagnosis that brought me to this list, is how do we relearn the ability to >>> think of ourselves in terms of a *we - * one that is neither confined >>> to the claustrophobic intimacy of the dyad nor lost in the abstractions of >>> national identity or homogenizing social structures, but that occupies some >>> space in between. This "larger social unit" that David evoked in that >>> earlier email, which - in being neither binary nor undifferentiated (not >>> the one or the one-and-the-other or the all, but the *several*) - seems >>> like it itself teaches us to think about our place in space and time and >>> history in a distinct way. I'm excited, in a way that had been hard for me >>> to access in the last few days, about the possibility of engaging the >>> wisdom of this list in this and other projects. >>> Wishing you well, >>> Elizabeth >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>> on behalf of mike cole >>> *Sent:* Friday, April 10, 2020 2:22 PM >>> *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>> *Subject:* [External] [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? >>> >>> Hi Rein -- Its great to hear from Estonia. The Tulvistas used to be >>> contributors to this conversation, back in the day. Your >>> cultural-historical >>> tradition, entwined with your semiotics, educate us all. >>> >>> How are you and your social circle thinkig about the current historical >>> crisis/crises in terms of the future of democracy and debates about what >>> follows in terms of possible forms of political economy.? I am "seeing" >>> a very strong movement on the part of my government to fulfill our founding >>> fathers's single worst nightmare: That a president would become king, >>> and the states his vassals. This imagining is reinforced almost daily as I >>> scan >>> the horizon. A new form of nationalist authoritarianism. I might even >>> live long enough to experience it. >>> >>> As critical, committed, cultural-historical, social scientists, who >>> teach in universities tasked with creating and "transmitting" our knowledge >>> to next generations, >>> what special skills do we bring to our social roles and its obligations? >>> Beth has described going through a qualitative transformation in her social >>> role that is tightly >>> bound to her obligations to her students and their students. David >>> points to a future in which classroom spaces will not be used for their >>> designed purposes for >>> at least 2-3 years, assuming a globally distributed vaccine, or else it >>> will be entirely a form of distance education that the world has never >>> before experienced. >>> Either way, inequalities will be exacerbated. etc. You all of this. >>> >>> So what can WE do (whoever we is?). >>> Here is what I imagine from the perspective of a vulnerable 82 year old >>> and almost four decades of xlchc-->xmca: >>> Many people associated with XMCA, and many more who are associated with a >>> variety of allied enterprises, have for decades become >>> "experts" in the design of new forms of educational activity (or >>> medical activity, or milk delivery men's mathematical practices, or tailors eeking out >>> a >>> living in an impoverished country) >>> >>> If I were a youngster and into branding, I might say that CHAT is expert >>> in creating hybrid,multimedia, systems of activity, ones that afford the >>> design of >>> the kind of "heterogeneous attunement." -- the kind of attunement that >>> promotes learning and development in zones of proxmal development. >>> However, I am not a youngster and my plate was pretty full before this >>> second shock wave, >>> >>> I am thinking about this as an "act locally but think globally" way to >>> deal with a world where people must band together but can only survive by >>> their networked ties to other. >>> >>> XMCA may not be the best place to discuss such matters. Your note with >>> its "two kinds of social distancing" set me off. >>> Here the medium seems to promote forms of chaining that leave only >>> buried traces of the by-passed links. Then they silence >>> those who feel disempowered by the male-domination. whiteness and status >>> that have been apparently unstoppable although >>> it is not the wish of any of those who participate. This happens not >>> just on xmca, but in other fora where everyone does not want it to happen. >>> >>> My hope is that *Cultural Praxis, *which the MCA editors are >>> re-vivifying, will provide more tools to ensure that we retain the >>> diversity essential to any sort of cultural-historical theorizing or >>> practicing. >>> >>> My whole ruble >>> mike >>> PS- How do we hybridize your two kinds of social distancing to create >>> effect environments for education? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 1:30 AM Rein Raud wrote: >>> >>> Hi everyone, >>> >>> Sorry for not having been very active lately, as I?ve been submerged in >>> lots of reading and writing, and the situation with the crisis has created >>> an even more conducive atmosphere for that. In Estonia, the situation is >>> more or less under control, and social distancing has been in our second >>> nature for ages, although now that it is encouraged, it is suddenly no >>> longer so natural. >>> >>> Stay safe and keep up the good work! >>> >>> With best wishes, >>> >>> Rein >>> >>> >>> ********************************************** >>> Rein Raud >>> Professor of Asian and Cultural Studies, Tallinn University >>> Uus-Sadama 5, Tallinn 10120 Estonia >>> >>> www.reinraud.com >>> >>> >>> >>> ?Meaning in Action: Outline of an Integral Theory of Culture?(Polity >>> 2016) >>> >>> ?Practices of Selfhood? (with Zygmunt Bauman, Polity 2015) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in >>> a landslide. Roy D'Andrade >>> --------------------------------------------------- >>> For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other >>> members of LCHC, visit >>> lchc.ucsd.edu >>> . >>> For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, >>> visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu >>> >>> . >>> >>> >>> > > -- > Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a > landslide. Roy D'Andrade > --------------------------------------------------- > For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other > members of LCHC, visit > lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the > research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. > > > -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200410/a6da69d9/attachment.html From mcole@ucsd.edu Fri Apr 10 17:43:39 2020 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 17:43:39 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: [External] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <7F97CF82-25AF-4388-98AC-D6A838CA008F@gmail.com> <000201d60eae$9ef9d5c0$dced8140$@att.net> <62CFE8B1-276D-4C4C-90CF-C1E3C3352418@gmail.com> <6F3B64BE-7924-4166-A72C-D25513F262E5@tlu.ee> Message-ID: Hi Elizabeth-- I always appreciated news of the qual list. Might Cultural Praxis be a place to find a way to get qual list and xmca list people to recognize a certain we-ness and find ways to support each other's work? mike On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 1:17 PM Dr. Elizabeth Fein wrote: > Hello all - > Longtime lurker on this list, emerging occasionally to send little > dispatches from SQIP. But I read much of what comes through. I'm in > Pittsburgh, in a small neighborhood whose close connections make me feel > both immense gratitude and wonderment. > > Every day as I drink my morning coffee I write a few pages in a notebook, > and recently those have been taken up with these questions: what do I *do*? > Or as Mike puts it, what can *we* do, whoever we is, or are? The question > I keep coming back to, and that I encountered so often in my work with > people shaded under the umbrella of the "autism spectrum" diagnosis that > brought me to this list, is how do we relearn the ability to think of > ourselves in terms of a *we - * one that is neither confined to the > claustrophobic intimacy of the dyad nor lost in the abstractions of > national identity or homogenizing social structures, but that occupies some > space in between. This "larger social unit" that David evoked in that > earlier email, which - in being neither binary nor undifferentiated (not > the one or the one-and-the-other or the all, but the *several*) - seems > like it itself teaches us to think about our place in space and time and > history in a distinct way. I'm excited, in a way that had been hard for me > to access in the last few days, about the possibility of engaging the > wisdom of this list in this and other projects. > Wishing you well, > Elizabeth > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of mike cole > *Sent:* Friday, April 10, 2020 2:22 PM > *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > *Subject:* [External] [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? > > Hi Rein -- Its great to hear from Estonia. The Tulvistas used to be > contributors to this conversation, back in the day. Your > cultural-historical > tradition, entwined with your semiotics, educate us all. > > How are you and your social circle thinkig about the current historical > crisis/crises in terms of the future of democracy and debates about what > follows in terms of possible forms of political economy.? I am "seeing" a > very strong movement on the part of my government to fulfill our founding > fathers's single worst nightmare: That a president would become king, and > the states his vassals. This imagining is reinforced almost daily as I scan > the horizon. A new form of nationalist authoritarianism. I might even > live long enough to experience it. > > As critical, committed, cultural-historical, social scientists, who teach > in universities tasked with creating and "transmitting" our knowledge to > next generations, > what special skills do we bring to our social roles and its obligations? > Beth has described going through a qualitative transformation in her social > role that is tightly > bound to her obligations to her students and their students. David points > to a future in which classroom spaces will not be used for their designed > purposes for > at least 2-3 years, assuming a globally distributed vaccine, or else it > will be entirely a form of distance education that the world has never > before experienced. > Either way, inequalities will be exacerbated. etc. You all of this. > > So what can WE do (whoever we is?). > Here is what I imagine from the perspective of a vulnerable 82 year old > and almost four decades of xlchc-->xmca: > Many people associated with XMCA, and many more who are associated with a > variety of allied enterprises, have for decades become > "experts" in the design of new forms of educational activity (or medical > activity, or milk delivery men's mathematical practices, or tailors eeking out > a > living in an impoverished country) > > If I were a youngster and into branding, I might say that CHAT is expert > in creating hybrid,multimedia, systems of activity, ones that afford the > design of > the kind of "heterogeneous attunement." -- the kind of attunement that > promotes learning and development in zones of proxmal development. > However, I am not a youngster and my plate was pretty full before this > second shock wave, > > I am thinking about this as an "act locally but think globally" way to > deal with a world where people must band together but can only survive by > their networked ties to other. > > XMCA may not be the best place to discuss such matters. Your note with its > "two kinds of social distancing" set me off. > Here the medium seems to promote forms of chaining that leave only buried > traces of the by-passed links. Then they silence > those who feel disempowered by the male-domination. whiteness and status > that have been apparently unstoppable although > it is not the wish of any of those who participate. This happens not just > on xmca, but in other fora where everyone does not want it to happen. > > My hope is that *Cultural Praxis, *which the MCA editors are > re-vivifying, will provide more tools to ensure that we retain the > diversity essential to any sort of cultural-historical theorizing or > practicing. > > My whole ruble > mike > PS- How do we hybridize your two kinds of social distancing to create > effect environments for education? > > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 1:30 AM Rein Raud wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > Sorry for not having been very active lately, as I?ve been submerged in > lots of reading and writing, and the situation with the crisis has created > an even more conducive atmosphere for that. In Estonia, the situation is > more or less under control, and social distancing has been in our second > nature for ages, although now that it is encouraged, it is suddenly no > longer so natural. > > Stay safe and keep up the good work! > > With best wishes, > > Rein > > > ********************************************** > Rein Raud > Professor of Asian and Cultural Studies, Tallinn University > Uus-Sadama 5, Tallinn 10120 Estonia > www.reinraud.com > > > > ?Meaning in Action: Outline of an Integral Theory of Culture?(Polity 2016) > > ?Practices of Selfhood? (with Zygmunt Bauman, Polity 2015) > > > > > > > -- > Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a > landslide. Roy D'Andrade > --------------------------------------------------- > For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other > members of LCHC, visit > lchc.ucsd.edu > . > For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, > visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu > > . > > > -- Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a landslide. Roy D'Andrade --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200410/96c0bfe8/attachment.html From dkellogg60@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 19:18:53 2020 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 11:18:53 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: =?utf-8?q?Lucien_S=C3=A8ve?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Let me just explain who he was for those who, like Ulvi, have heard the name but don't really know the work. Lucien S?ve was born in Chambery (in the Savoy), part of France on the border of Italy and Switzerland--it's a good place to ski, but it's also a good place to study dialectics, because you are not really French or Italian or Swiss and you are at the same time all of the above. It was also a great place to resist the Nazis, and he must have seen quite a bit of that as a teenager. He must have seen even more during his military service in Algeria just before the beginning of the uprising, because around that time he joined the Communist Party of France (PCF). Elected to the PCF Central Committee, he presided over the PCF civil war between Roger Garaudy (who wanted to dissolve the party into something liberal and humanistic) and Louis Althusser, who wanted exactly the opposite. Althusser argued that the "humanist" Marx of the Economic and Philosophical Manuscripts was theoretically and philosophically different from the anti-humanist scientific socialist who wrote Capital. Lucien argued that the early Marx was a philosopher and a pessimist with only a theoretical knowledge of the working class, but the later Marx had direct experience of workers' organizations and was able, as a result, to transfer his pessimism squarely to the fate of capitalism. (Parallels with the present crisis, which rather resembles a general strike, strongly to be encouraged.) He knew Leontiev and Luria personally, and as head of the party publishing house he arranged to print his wife's translation of Leontiev's personal copy of Thinking and Speech into French. Iintellectually, he remained a philosopher (he served on Mitterand's scientific ethics committee for more than a decade). But he also wrote a three volume work on the theory of the personality, in which Vygotsky has much more than a cameo. All his life he fought for what he called "refondation" of the party--in the end, he did succeed in refounding activity theory on the basis of the semiological work of Jean-Paul Bronckart and Bernard Schneuwly, amongst others. (What could be more relevant to CHAT?) David Kellogg Sangmyung University Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of *Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational action research' in Mind Culture and Activity* https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 Some free e-prints available at: https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 (Parallels with the present strongly encouraged. Looking out my window, I can amost imagine this to be a general strike and not (as it actually is) a lockdown/lock out.....) On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 8:14 AM Ulvi ??il wrote: > David, > > I knew Lucien Seve's writings, thanks to my French, without having the > oportunity to read them, when I've got curious about Vygotsky literature. > I had the immediate impression that he is an important Marxist > intellectual. > Hoping to read his work in memoriam. > > Ulvi > > > > > > On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 at 02:09, mike cole wrote: > >> Oh! What an untimely loss, just when we hoped that the special mca issue >> on pedology would promote a >> deeper understanding Vygotsky's project as a unified whole with Seve's >> discussion as major piece. >> :-( >> mike >> >> On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 3:59 PM David Kellogg >> wrote: >> >>> A few days ago I wrote to Lucien to ask him to contribute a blurb for >>> our new book and uncharacteristically got no reply. With some trepidation I >>> looked at his Wikipedia page (he is an extremely well known philosopher in >>> Francophonia). He died of Covid 19 on the 23 of March. >>> >>> Professor Seve was a great Marxist and a great militant: he and his wife >>> did more than anyone else to make the work of Vygotsky known in France and >>> Switzerland. One of his last writings will be appearing soon in MCA. >>> >>> David Kellogg >>> Sangmyung University >>> >>> Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of *Critical >>> Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational >>> action research' in Mind Culture and Activity* >>> >>> https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 >>> >>> Some free e-prints available at: >>> >>> >>> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 >>> >>> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works >>> Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" >>> >>> https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a >> landslide. Roy D'Andrade >> --------------------------------------------------- >> For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other >> members of LCHC, visit >> lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the >> research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. >> >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200411/a53325a7/attachment.html From mcole@ucsd.edu Fri Apr 10 20:48:24 2020 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 20:48:24 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> Message-ID: Hi Anna-Lisa. What you describe has great similarities what people in the US are experiencing with the exception that it is now clear for all to see that it is poverty, or the security of the vulnerable (same thing in my view). Thanks very much for the Latium letter. It is totally relevant right now. Mike On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 9:38 AM PERRET-CLERMONT Anne-Nelly < Anne-Nelly.Perret-Clermont@unine.ch> wrote: > Hello everybody! > > Thank you so much for all the news and perspectives that are being shared > from all over the Planet. Such difficult times, especially for those who > can?t even send news... > > Some news from Switzerland, a privileged country, yet with very serious > contamination rates. Almost 4 weeks of confinement (rights to go out are > very limited and only a limited number of professions are still working) > that totally re-organize our private and public life. > > The sun is shining wonderfully and it is very tempting to move out for > this Easter holiday. Nevertheless, most people are very disciplined and > stay home in confinement. > It took a lot of time for the local, cantonal and federal authorities to > decide on the confinement measures. Switzerland?s political traditions > impose bottom-up decisions. But the result of this (too slow?) process > seems to be that most people agree and comply with this policy. Police > forces try to do education and not repression. But the peak of the tide of > contamination has not been reached yet and hospitals are under stress. > > The economic stress due to this long shut down arises a lot of fear on the > side of trade unions and employers associations. Switzerland has very large > multinational companies, but 90% of its firms are small or medium size > business. Quite a number of them are now reaching the edge of bankruptcy. > If they should go bankrup,t this would totally disorganise the country, its > daily style of life and more: small firms and their locations impact > regional demography, resources, power (in a federation of cantons), etc. > after compulsory education, 60% of the young people attend dual education > (i.e. half time in firms and half-time in school) and if firms shut down > this education will fall apart. Government, banks and networks of citizens > are lending money and trying to maintain these small firms alive. > Unemployment rate is raising but rents have to be paid. Etc? > > Switzerland is a country of pharmaceutical industry and engineers. But the > panic in the hospitals is not over: equipment is insufficient, and drugs > are starting to miss. Local enterprises have the know how to make them but > ?with ingredients that come exclusively from China and India. Hospitals > have been afraid of losing 25% to 40% of their staff as nurses often come > from the bordering regions of France and Italy. Finally, these countries > have locked their borders but not for those professionals. This does not > solve the problem on the long term, of course as these countries also need > more medical staff. We hope that a growing awareness of the importance (and > respect and salary) due to these professions will finally have the > necessary impact. At 9 p.m., everybody goes at the window or balcony to > give them a clap (or ring bells or even play music) for a minute to thank > all the medical staff and other professions (e.g., cleaners) who likewise > take enormous risks and make great efforts. > > The number of beds in the hospitals has been seriously increased by > creative means. The ultraliberal policy of the last decade had seriously > cut down the number of beds in hospital and sent many many patients to > private practice and ambulatory treatment. But the government, when > declaring confinement, has also declared that medical practitioners should > only do online treatment and should close their practice. Result: 3 weeks > later medical authorities are very worried: many patients in serious > conditions or with severe chronic diseases don?t dare to call their medical > practitioner and are afraid to go to the emergency services in hospital > (fear of overloading them, fear of infection by Covid and fear of being cut > out from their families (not allowed in the hospital). The pronostic is a > possible wave of very serious cases needing urgent and heavy treatment. > This wave will put extra-pressure on the sanitary system already > overburden. Meanwhile small medical units are close to bankruptcy : their > have to pay the salaries of their staff but have no income to do so. > > There is also a (still small) growing concern among social scientists that > the teams that reflect on the pandemic and the confinement measures (and > the planning of the end of the confinement) are made up of exclusively of > epidemiologists and economists (with one or two specialists in ethics). > Hence the psychic and social problems of the confined population are > probably underestimated. > Little is known of the underprivileged part of the population, now > unemployed, in small housing, with little outreach. Schooling has gone > online in a fortnight (with absolutely no preparation) but many students > don?t have connections or share the unique computer of the household with > parents and siblings all supposedly on line. > > This is only a few elements that characterise the situation. In parallel, > many citizens are becoming increasingly aware of the dangers of the total > interdependence of the economy and of the ecological disasters that this > creates. Sanitary disasters and ecological disasters are much more > interrelated than expected (a very nice book to understand that biological > processes and ways of life social life are interdependent: Rob Dunn *"Never > home alone. **From Microbes to Millipedes, Camel Crickets, and Honeybees, > the Natural History of Where We Live"*). > > There are also plenty of many nice examples of solidarity, creativity, > etc. They need to converge and be made visible. > > We (MAPS in University of Neuch?tel) are engaging in a large inquiry > based on Bruno Latour?s call (March 29, 2020): "A little exercise to make > sure that, after the virus crisis, things don?t start again as they were > before" (see http://www.bruno-latour.fr/node/852.html with already > versions in English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Polish, German, Dutch). > > Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont > > > > Prof. em. Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont > Institut de psychologie et ?ducation Facult? des lettres et sciences > humaines > Universit? de Neuch?tel > Espace Tilo-Frey 1 > > (Anciennement: Espace Louis-Agassiz 1) > > CH- 2000 Neuch?tel (Suisse > > ) > http://www.unine.ch/ipe/publications/anne_nelly_perret_clermont > > Last publications: > Perret-Clermont, A.-N., Sch?r, R., Greco, S., Convertini, J., Iannaccone, > A., & Rocci, A. (2019). Shifting from a monological to a dialogical > perspective on children?s argumentation. Lessons learned. In F. H. van > Eemren & B. Garssen (Eds.), *Argumentation in actual practice. Topical > studies about argumentative discourse in context* (pp. 211-236): John > Benjamins Publishing Company. *Version ?lectronique > *Iannaccone, A., Perret-Clermont, > A.-N., & Convertini, J. (2019). Children as investigators of Brunerian > ?Possible worlds?. The role of narrative scenarios in children?s > argumentative thinking. . Integrative Psychological and Behiavioral > Science, 53, 679-693. *Version ?lectronique > * > > Perret-Clermont, A.-N., Perret, J.-F., Pochon, L.-O., & Marro, P. (2019). Hommage > ? Jacques Perriault. Hermes, La Revue, 3, 226-226. > > In J.-P. Fragni?re (Ed.), Agir et penser avec Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont > (pp. 71-107). Lausanne: Editions Socialinfo > https://www.socialinfo.ch/les-livres/38-agir-et-penser-avec-anne-nelly-perret-clermont.html > > > > > > > -- Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a landslide. Roy D'Andrade --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200410/28d31354/attachment.html From a.j.gil@ils.uio.no Sat Apr 11 01:58:02 2020 From: a.j.gil@ils.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 08:58:02 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: <42648D96-D18D-4CC9-8F8B-0CD6F6E7AD46@gmail.com> References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> <001301d60dcb$0b376430$21a62c90$@att.net> <7F97CF82-25AF-4388-98AC-D6A838CA008F@gmail.com> <000001d60df4$f492efe0$ddb8cfa0$@att.net> <000201d60eae$9ef9d5c0$dced8140$@att.net> <62CFE8B1-276D-4C4C-90CF-C1E3C3352418@gmail.com> <000601d60f58$bc76cf90$35646eb0$@att.net> <42648D96-D18D-4CC9-8F8B-0CD6F6E7AD46@gmail.com> Message-ID: The list of xmca members is indeed long! Here is a link to the list: http://lchc-resources.org/xmca/subscriber_list.php Alfredo From: on behalf of Helena Worthen Reply to: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Date: Friday, 10 April 2020 at 22:11 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? This is a gracefully written New Yorker-worthy piece of dark dystopian fiction. I would like to start up the whole Utopia discussion again, which I never felt clamped its teeth down hard enough.Thanks, David. I am seeing responses from David Kellogg, Peg Griffin, Mike Cole, Greg Thompson, Rein Raud in Estonia, David Kirshner, Ed Wall, Henry Shoner, Andy Blunden, Martin Packer in Bogota, Richard Beach ? who did I miss? There are more of us out there. I worry about Haydi in Iran. I am swamped with Zoom, telephone and email. Rather than clog up this list I?ll re-visit my blog (below) just in case anyone reads it ? this is with regards to the price of vegetables, David Kellogg. Other than that: the book about contingency goes back through 4 past transitions in higher education: standardization (Carnegie, SATs etc); expansion (the GI bill); the Movement era (civil rights, 1968, etc) and then the neoliberal contraction, for which the explosion of contingency (no job security/no academic freedom, crap wages) was a solution to a set of interlocking administrative problems. WE then go into a lot of detail about what organizing unions for faculty and campus workers in higher education is like. Thanks for asking, David. I?m doing Zoom piano lessons for grandchildren, in hopes that they will come out of this with at least one skill that is useful to humanity. Also working with DSA (Democratic Socialists of America) to lead reading groups about the recent wave of teacher strikes. Still owe Andy a review of his Hegel book; thanks for uploading the difference between Hegel and Marx paper, Andy. There are still some more xmca-ers out there that haven't checked in. Helena Worthen 21 San MAteo Road, Berkeley 94707 510-828-2745 helenaworthen.wordpress.com On Apr 10, 2020, at 12:39 PM, mike cole > wrote: The new samizdat, David? mike On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 10:31 AM David H Kirshner > wrote: Here?s a fictional reminder of what more may be at stake in the current political era. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/04/06/love-letter David From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > On Behalf Of Peg Griffin, Ph.D. Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 11:55 AM To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Henry, Only thing I know for sure about any bill is this: If it doesn?t serve well the top 1%, then McConnell won?t have it come to the floor for a vote in the Senate, so many reasonably good bills are never enacted and no Senator or President need be held accountable about their opposition. But, what I know about intersectional groups in the past few years is that we have to reach out in any and all ways possible to be sure we do not step on each other?s messages, actions, and needs, and to be sure we have ways of getting and giving timely support as allies. It sounds wimpy for a bumper sticker, but I wish I had one that said ?Protect Fragile Solidarity!? I think we may be inching in that awkward direction though: SPLC has normalized the bumper sticker, ?Restore the Vote.? Peg From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 12:05 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Peg, I really don?t know anymore about life on the Rez now than what I read on line, what I have heard on Native America Calling on our local public radio station KUNM and what I hear from my Navajo Family near Shiprock. So far, no one in my family there is sick. I have no insider information that might help pull the right strings in DC. Deb Haaland sends out regular bulletins describing what she is doing to benefit all New Mexicans, no specific mention of what?s happening on the Navajo. You know more about the bills than I do! Henry On Apr 9, 2020, at 2:36 PM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. > wrote: Henry, may I ask you to discuss Co-Vid 19 in the Navajo Nation? From news reports the Nation seems to be proactive, trying new and old ways of proceeding. But, in comparison to nearby states, more and deeper problems faced with fewer and less stable resources? DC got robbed in the second bailout bill ? way underfunded. Plans are getting formed and deformed about pushing for fixes in the next bill (now in messes in both House and Senate). Do you know if there are any Navajo plans that DC folk can support, maybe learn from (or at least stop from inadvertently stepping on?) Is staff in Deb Haaland?s office in the HOB a good place to try to find out or ?? A good fantasy about November, Henry. Somehow, it reminds me of the early days in the Fifth Dimension. The children engaged in transformational journeys, taking their avatars through rooms in a table top maze, choosing which of several openings they would use as entry and eventual exit, choosing which of different tasks in the room to do (harder tasks coupled with more choice over which exits from room they could use), collaborating with peers and lovely Big Sisters and Brothers, and there was always the Wizard ?guardian or trickster or sometimes asleep at the wheel. At an exit, avatars transformed and children went to the creature store to pick the token of the transformation to travel with if they chose to enter the 5th D again. But there was also a different world with university and public school calendars and rites of passage. At times for seams important to that world, the children got shirts screen-printed with words ranging from ?I conquered the 5thdimension? ?I barely survived the 5th Dimension? ?I almost survived the 5th Dimension? and so on ?I?m in the middle? ?I?m just starting?? A child reviewed the prior period of time, negotiating which words would be on their shirt. (Of all the weird things in the 5th D, Mike laughs best about the carefully differentiated shirts.) So, how about you and I in the here(s) and now(s)? We make choice after choice after choice and work hard at enough to transform the current elected officials to try to choose better creatures as we exit this iteration of a government and enter again for choices and tasks in the next iteration. Concurrently, we have to keep our eye on the prize of the CoVid 19 pandemic world and survival in it. BTW, I do live inside the Beltway ? 12 blocks north and east of Union Station. The museums, the food, and the HOBs (House Office Buildings) ? as well as the SOBs across the capitol park ? all nearby, familiar sites of camaraderie for efforts, some successful and some not so much. Peg From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 7:52 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? I was born at Mercy Hospital in Washington DC. Do you actually live inside the Beltway? Great museums there and food. Scads of family from both Judy?s and my side. One of the last times I visited there, I went to Michelle?s office: She was our representative at the time. She gets around. I have this fantasy brought on by the pandemic and New Mexico?s Blue (Democratic) sweep in 2018 that brought us three kick-ass women: Governor Michelle...Representative Deborah Halland for Albuquerque and surrounds where we live (I canvassed for her in the primary!)?and Representative Xochi Small to the south. All Democrats. The fantasy is that these historic times, this perizhvanie, this Lev budding, will bear fruit in November that gets us through another narrow place. And we will celebrate. Fitting that Passover is tonight, a celebration of liberation from slavery, and a time when we recognize that we are all really strangers, wherever we live. Yikes! Talk about Biblical dialect! It?s as catching as that Corona bug! Must stay well Henry On Apr 8, 2020, at 4:27 PM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. > wrote: I live in Washington, DC, Henry, but my roots here are by way of LCHC in San Diego which begot xlchc which begot xmca. Don?t know why I switched into a biblical dialect, but not hallucinations, just whimsy. And a little tired this evening. Did you notice how my motif in my last post turned unto motive when I sent it? I think it was Leonti?ev sneaking in. The description of your mask seems dashing! Could Judy have alternative (or ulterior) motive (or motif)? Hmmm, just recognized the 5th Dimension wanting into the lineage recital. Still no hallucination just a few sips of a nice Tuscan blend? Peg From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 5:14 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Hey Peg! Yes, I will tell Governor Michelle you?re rooting for her from where you and yours are at! Please forgive my senior moment, but where do YOU live? My wife Judy figured out how to make a mask from a bandana and two hair ties. Like I?m ready to rob the stage coach, full of ppe (personal protective equipment).:) I saw a cartoon of Trump and his underlings at one of his you-can?t-make-it-up briefings. They are wearing masks that cover nose and mouth. Trump has a Lone Ranger mask. Here?s a link for those short on Americana: https://www.pinterest.com/robertharmon311/lone-ranger-mask-patterns-for-save-ranger-challeng/ Stay safe and well! Henry On Apr 8, 2020, at 11:27 AM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. > wrote: Henry, please tell your governor/friend, Michelle Lujan Grisham, ?We see her, we hear her, we love her, and we know we need her.? Groups here that made good use of allies before the pandemic are making good, well-planned use of us now, especially for those in the shadows, by necessity or oversight, to address basic food and medical insecurity. And thank you, too, Henry and others on xmca. Relatively healthy (AKA no Co-vid19 that we know of and well masked ? my favorite right now is an easily washed and bleached homemade one with a blue lamb motive ? anyone need a pdf for making adult or child masks, with or without hepa-filters?) and safe, Peg From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 12:48 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Hi All, Like Greg, I was struck by Andy?s sense that China may go back to ?normal? but the neo-liberal ?first" world is and will be experiencing a profound perizhvanie. You?d hope it will be for the good. In the U.S,, generally, rates of infection are positively correlated with density of population. For example, I live in New Mexico, the fifth largest state in the U.S. with a population of a little over a one million and the lowest rate of infection?so far. However, our Navajo live spread out to the west and north of us, but have very high rates of infection. Little Zia Pueblo, just an our by car to the north and west of us, only has about a thousand people, with eleven confirmed cases. Poverty. In the country as a whole people of color have relatively higher rates of infection. Poverty. Our governor, Michelle Lujan Grisham (who I am proud to say is a good friend), has been successful in pushing baci against Trump?s efforts to punish states that did not vote for him by being less than cooperative in providing resources against the pandemic. She has been using her bully pulpit against Trump's bloviating. His hot air has got to be an infectious agent. Most of us are using masks in public, evidence indicating that it protects OTHERS by wearing them. Trump prefers NOT to wear a mask. Consistent with his politics. You can?t make this up. Be well, Henry On Apr 8, 2020, at 9:00 AM, Greg Thompson > wrote: David, I wonder if you could say more about your experience of the state-based "surveillance" in SK. There are lots of different groups in the U.S., both on the left and the right, who are up in arms about the "tracking" of citizens via credit card and cell phone usage. And it sounds like this is a global concern as Mary's report from SA suggests. Also how interesting how similar the conspiracy theories are around the globe (globalization and the spread of viral ideas?). That's world perezhivanie indeed! -greg On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 3:08 PM David Kellogg > wrote: Helena-- Situation in China, courtesy my sister-in-law: life in Beijing is pretty much back to normal at least on the face of it. People are going out to their work units (but there is more work from home than before the crisis). Classes still largely taught from ZOOM. My nephew is in Shanghai, where the situation is somewhat tighter (proximity to Wuhan). Wuhan opened up for real yesterday--people can leave (I lived there for two years in the mid-eighties, but I can barely recognize what I see on the news now....) I have students in Chengdu (who attend my class via ZOOM). People are mostly shopping on line with delivery to the gate of the housing unit rather than to their flat (as we do here in Korea). Air quality better than it's been in decades. Situation here in South Korea: We just extended our lockdown for another two weeks. This is in response to a few days of new infections over a hundred, but the infections are mostly (80%) Koreans from the US and Europe who want to live in a place where the medical system has not broken down or is not in the process of breaking down. There are still some "hotspots" of community transmission, but these are almost all connected with churches or PC cafes. Schools reopen on the 16th, but only online. We have elections in a week, and there is a lot of campaigning going on, including the usual street based campaigning (the right wing opposition campaigns around the curious notion that the government has done absolutely nothing, and the government ignores everybody who is not an actual virus). People shop in stores, and there is no panic buying or disruption of supply chains. The main changes in economic life seem to have to do with transport, and it seems like this too will be permanent (electric scooters are everywhere now). Bowing instead of shaking hands is really not a bad idea, and coffee-shops always were over-rated and over-priced.... But what about you, Helena? (One of the things I have learned on this list is that you get more or less what you give--people tend to use what you write as a model for writing back!) Are you still in Vietnam? Your address says Berkeley and your email says Illinois--those are three very different venues for the virus and the economy. Can you give us a brief account of the situation in each? Stay safe, wherever you are! David Kellogg Sangmyung University Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational action research in Mind Culture and Activity https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 Some free e-prints available at: https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 4:30 AM Martin Packer > wrote: Hi Helena, I share your concerns. And, despite its challenges, this situation seems a great opportunity to apply our distributed expertise(s). I tried to get some discussion going in a group concerned with the Anthropocene, but people seemed disinclined. Martin Here?s the first message that I sent? The current situation is producing important evidence about the probable consequences of the strategies proposed to mitigate climate change. Satellites are showing significant reductions in pollution: https://www.space.com/italy-coronavirus-outbreak-response-reduces-emissions-satellite-images.html Experts are suggesting that as a result the coronavirus may save more lives than it takes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2020/03/11/coronavirus-lockdown-may-save-more-lives-from-pollution-and-climate-than-from-virus/#4a39bb3c5764 So when skeptics ask ?How can you know that reducing air travel will help with climate change?? there is now clear evidence with which to answer them. Also in China: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/04/811019032/why-chinas-air-has-been-cleaner-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak At the same time, I am starting to wonder whether the current health guidelines regarding coronvirus are culturally biased. Can they work in ?collectivist? cultures (to use the shorthand)? The CDC guidelines, for example, include the recommendations to ?Stay home when you are sick,? but also that other members of the household should ?Avoid close contact with people who are sick? and should ?Choose a room in your home that can be used to separate sick household members from those who are healthy. Identify a separate bathroom for the sick person to use, if possible.? This advice is simply not practicable for many households in Colombia. There are not enough rooms; there is no second bathroom. In addition, many infants and young children here are cared for by grandparents, or even great-grandparents (many women here have a baby when young, so an infant may have a grandmother who is in her late 30s and a great-grandmother in her late 50s). The evidence shows that children don?t become very ill, but they do get infected and they can infect other people, among whom elderly caregivers will be the most at risk. So I don?t think social distance and auto-quarantine will work in Colombia. Consider what the Chinese did: they went door-to-door to identify infected family members and removed them to massive collective quarantine setttings. People in the West considered this to be draconian, even cruel. But it made sense: much more cross-infection occurred in Chinese homes than in places like restaurants. Unless the authorities can come up with strategies that are more appropriate to local circumstances and practices, there is likely to be a rapid and elevated peak of infections in Latin American countries. And I see there is a related point here, on ageism: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200313155256.htm On Apr 7, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Helena Worthen > wrote: Hello, XMCA-ers - I don?t remember ever having read that this list was going to shut down or even be allowed to fade away. So now I?m writing, as if in the dark, to the whole list. We?ve now got a major ? maybe ?the? major crisis of the anthropocene on our hands and the distant but connected network represented by the conversations on this list seem to me to be a treasure more precious than gold - and I?m not speaking metaphorically. I am concerned about some of the people who have been pillars and resources on his list, people whom I have reached out to over the years and heard back from with information and perspectives that I would never have been able to access on my own. Where are you now? What are you doing? Are you safe and healthy? Do you have information about friends who are unable to read or respond to this request? I hope to hear some responses to this message. Take care of yourselves, please ? Helena Helena Worthen hworthen@illinois.edu 21 San Mateo Road, Berkeley, CA 94707 -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson -- Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a landslide. Roy D'Andrade --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200411/35677d96/attachment.html From annalie.pistorius@smu.ac.za Sat Apr 11 06:58:32 2020 From: annalie.pistorius@smu.ac.za (Annalie Pistorius) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 15:58:32 +0200 (SAST) Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> <001301d60dcb$0b376430$21a62c90$@att.net> <7F97CF82-25AF-4388-98AC-D6A838CA008F@gmail.com> <000001d60df4$f492efe0$ddb8cfa0$@att.net> <000201d60eae $9ef9d5c0$dced 8140$@att.net> <62CFE8B1-276D-4C4C-90CF-C1E3C3352418@gmail.com> <000601d60f58$bc76cf90$35646eb0$@att.net> <42648D96-D18D-4CC9-8F8B-0CD6F6E7AD46@gmail.com> Message-ID: <032101d61009$412ff3a0$c38fdae0$@smu.ac.za> Hi im still here with you. Sitting together is something to do. Our university had shut down before the lockdown here in South Africa ? our students and SRC being medical students have taken charge the way they usually do. I must say they always impress me, how they can manoeuvre all staff when there is a leadership crisis. However now with the Corona world crisis, I am impressed how everyone here including our leaders stand firm and together, herding us and being giving to poor communities. I watch BBC world news almost every day, and was impressed to see that even in Cape Town our gang members have started using their leadership to organise and direct the handing out of food parcels to their community members. Of cause, not everyone is seeing all of this as positive as I am painting it here. I am reminded of the bitter sweetness of the situation, by my patient (with whom I am doing psychotherapy sessions on my cell phone at a very high cost, don?t ask me why not on internet), that his problem of stress, headaches and severe depression is dissolving because he is not at work. No-one shouting into his ears, the voices of critique fading?Now what should be done so that when he goes back his problem continues to dissolve? Is this our moment to build onto? ? how we can change psychotherapies to be social and revolutionary so that patients can insist that people in their worlds change with them? That?s why I am here listening. Greetings Annalie From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu On Behalf Of Alfredo Jornet Gil Sent: Saturday, 11 April 2020 10:58 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? The list of xmca members is indeed long! Here is a link to the list: http://lchc-resources.org/xmca/subscriber_list.php Alfredo From: > on behalf of Helena Worthen > Reply to: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Date: Friday, 10 April 2020 at 22:11 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? This is a gracefully written New Yorker-worthy piece of dark dystopian fiction. I would like to start up the whole Utopia discussion again, which I never felt clamped its teeth down hard enough.Thanks, David. I am seeing responses from David Kellogg, Peg Griffin, Mike Cole, Greg Thompson, Rein Raud in Estonia, David Kirshner, Ed Wall, Henry Shoner, Andy Blunden, Martin Packer in Bogota, Richard Beach ? who did I miss? There are more of us out there. I worry about Haydi in Iran. I am swamped with Zoom, telephone and email. Rather than clog up this list I?ll re-visit my blog (below) just in case anyone reads it ? this is with regards to the price of vegetables, David Kellogg. Other than that: the book about contingency goes back through 4 past transitions in higher education: standardization (Carnegie, SATs etc); expansion (the GI bill); the Movement era (civil rights, 1968, etc) and then the neoliberal contraction, for which the explosion of contingency (no job security/no academic freedom, crap wages) was a solution to a set of interlocking administrative problems. WE then go into a lot of detail about what organizing unions for faculty and campus workers in higher education is like. Thanks for asking, David. I?m doing Zoom piano lessons for grandchildren, in hopes that they will come out of this with at least one skill that is useful to humanity. Also working with DSA (Democratic Socialists of America) to lead reading groups about the recent wave of teacher strikes. Still owe Andy a review of his Hegel book; thanks for uploading the difference between Hegel and Marx paper, Andy. There are still some more xmca-ers out there that haven't checked in. Helena Worthen 21 San MAteo Road, Berkeley 94707 510-828-2745 helenaworthen.wordpress.com On Apr 10, 2020, at 12:39 PM, mike cole > wrote: The new samizdat, David? mike On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 10:31 AM David H Kirshner > wrote: Here?s a fictional reminder of what more may be at stake in the current political era. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/04/06/love-letter David From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > On Behalf Of Peg Griffin, Ph.D. Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 11:55 AM To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Henry, Only thing I know for sure about any bill is this: If it doesn?t serve well the top 1%, then McConnell won?t have it come to the floor for a vote in the Senate, so many reasonably good bills are never enacted and no Senator or President need be held accountable about their opposition. But, what I know about intersectional groups in the past few years is that we have to reach out in any and all ways possible to be sure we do not step on each other?s messages, actions, and needs, and to be sure we have ways of getting and giving timely support as allies. It sounds wimpy for a bumper sticker, but I wish I had one that said ?Protect Fragile Solidarity!? I think we may be inching in that awkward direction though: SPLC has normalized the bumper sticker, ?Restore the Vote.? Peg From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 12:05 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Peg, I really don?t know anymore about life on the Rez now than what I read on line, what I have heard on Native America Calling on our local public radio station KUNM and what I hear from my Navajo Family near Shiprock. So far, no one in my family there is sick. I have no insider information that might help pull the right strings in DC. Deb Haaland sends out regular bulletins describing what she is doing to benefit all New Mexicans, no specific mention of what?s happening on the Navajo. You know more about the bills than I do! Henry On Apr 9, 2020, at 2:36 PM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. > wrote: Henry, may I ask you to discuss Co-Vid 19 in the Navajo Nation? From news reports the Nation seems to be proactive, trying new and old ways of proceeding. But, in comparison to nearby states, more and deeper problems faced with fewer and less stable resources? DC got robbed in the second bailout bill ? way underfunded. Plans are getting formed and deformed about pushing for fixes in the next bill (now in messes in both House and Senate). Do you know if there are any Navajo plans that DC folk can support, maybe learn from (or at least stop from inadvertently stepping on?) Is staff in Deb Haaland?s office in the HOB a good place to try to find out or ?? A good fantasy about November, Henry. Somehow, it reminds me of the early days in the Fifth Dimension. The children engaged in transformational journeys, taking their avatars through rooms in a table top maze, choosing which of several openings they would use as entry and eventual exit, choosing which of different tasks in the room to do (harder tasks coupled with more choice over which exits from room they could use), collaborating with peers and lovely Big Sisters and Brothers, and there was always the Wizard ?guardian or trickster or sometimes asleep at the wheel. At an exit, avatars transformed and children went to the creature store to pick the token of the transformation to travel with if they chose to enter the 5th D again. But there was also a different world with university and public school calendars and rites of passage. At times for seams important to that world, the children got shirts screen-printed with words ranging from ?I conquered the 5thdimension? ?I barely survived the 5th Dimension? ?I almost survived the 5th Dimension? and so on ?I?m in the middle? ?I?m just starting?? A child reviewed the prior period of time, negotiating which words would be on their shirt. (Of all the weird things in the 5th D, Mike laughs best about the carefully differentiated shirts.) So, how about you and I in the here(s) and now(s)? We make choice after choice after choice and work hard at enough to transform the current elected officials to try to choose better creatures as we exit this iteration of a government and enter again for choices and tasks in the next iteration. Concurrently, we have to keep our eye on the prize of the CoVid 19 pandemic world and survival in it. BTW, I do live inside the Beltway ? 12 blocks north and east of Union Station. The museums, the food, and the HOBs (House Office Buildings) ? as well as the SOBs across the capitol park ? all nearby, familiar sites of camaraderie for efforts, some successful and some not so much. Peg From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [ mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 7:52 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity < xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? I was born at Mercy Hospital in Washington DC. Do you actually live inside the Beltway? Great museums there and food. Scads of family from both Judy?s and my side. One of the last times I visited there, I went to Michelle?s office: She was our representative at the time. She gets around. I have this fantasy brought on by the pandemic and New Mexico?s Blue (Democratic) sweep in 2018 that brought us three kick-ass women: Governor Michelle...Representative Deborah Halland for Albuquerque and surrounds where we live (I canvassed for her in the primary!)?and Representative Xochi Small to the south. All Democrats. The fantasy is that these historic times, this perizhvanie, this Lev budding, will bear fruit in November that gets us through another narrow place. And we will celebrate. Fitting that Passover is tonight, a celebration of liberation from slavery, and a time when we recognize that we are all really strangers, wherever we live. Yikes! Talk about Biblical dialect! It?s as catching as that Corona bug! Must stay well Henry On Apr 8, 2020, at 4:27 PM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. < Peg.Griffin@att.net> wrote: I live in Washington, DC, Henry, but my roots here are by way of LCHC in San Diego which begot xlchc which begot xmca. Don?t know why I switched into a biblical dialect, but not hallucinations, just whimsy. And a little tired this evening. Did you notice how my motif in my last post turned unto motive when I sent it? I think it was Leonti?ev sneaking in. The description of your mask seems dashing! Could Judy have alternative (or ulterior) motive (or motif)? Hmmm, just recognized the 5th Dimension wanting into the lineage recital. Still no hallucination just a few sips of a nice Tuscan blend? Peg From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [ mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 5:14 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity < xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Hey Peg! Yes, I will tell Governor Michelle you?re rooting for her from where you and yours are at! Please forgive my senior moment, but where do YOU live? My wife Judy figured out how to make a mask from a bandana and two hair ties. Like I?m ready to rob the stage coach, full of ppe (personal protective equipment).:) I saw a cartoon of Trump and his underlings at one of his you-can?t-make-it-up briefings. They are wearing masks that cover nose and mouth. Trump has a Lone Ranger mask. Here?s a link for those short on Americana: https://www.pinterest.com/robertharmon311/lone-ranger-mask-patterns-for-save-ranger-challeng/ Stay safe and well! Henry On Apr 8, 2020, at 11:27 AM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. < Peg.Griffin@att.net> wrote: Henry, please tell your governor/friend, Michelle Lujan Grisham, ?We see her, we hear her, we love her, and we know we need her.? Groups here that made good use of allies before the pandemic are making good, well-planned use of us now, especially for those in the shadows, by necessity or oversight, to address basic food and medical insecurity. And thank you, too, Henry and others on xmca. Relatively healthy (AKA no Co-vid19 that we know of and well masked ? my favorite right now is an easily washed and bleached homemade one with a blue lamb motive ? anyone need a pdf for making adult or child masks, with or without hepa-filters?) and safe, Peg From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [ mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 12:48 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity < xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Hi All, Like Greg, I was struck by Andy?s sense that China may go back to ?normal? but the neo-liberal ?first" world is and will be experiencing a profound perizhvanie. You?d hope it will be for the good. In the U.S,, generally, rates of infection are positively correlated with density of population. For example, I live in New Mexico, the fifth largest state in the U.S. with a population of a little over a one million and the lowest rate of infection?so far. However, our Navajo live spread out to the west and north of us, but have very high rates of infection. Little Zia Pueblo, just an our by car to the north and west of us, only has about a thousand people, with eleven confirmed cases. Poverty. In the country as a whole people of color have relatively higher rates of infection. Poverty. Our governor, Michelle Lujan Grisham (who I am proud to say is a good friend), has been successful in pushing baci against Trump?s efforts to punish states that did not vote for him by being less than cooperative in providing resources against the pandemic. She has been using her bully pulpit against Trump's bloviating. His hot air has got to be an infectious agent. Most of us are using masks in public, evidence indicating that it protects OTHERS by wearing them. Trump prefers NOT to wear a mask. Consistent with his politics. You can?t make this up. Be well, Henry On Apr 8, 2020, at 9:00 AM, Greg Thompson < greg.a.thompson@gmail.com> wrote: David, I wonder if you could say more about your experience of the state-based "surveillance" in SK. There are lots of different groups in the U.S., both on the left and the right, who are up in arms about the "tracking" of citizens via credit card and cell phone usage. And it sounds like this is a global concern as Mary's report from SA suggests. Also how interesting how similar the conspiracy theories are around the globe (globalization and the spread of viral ideas?). That's world perezhivanie indeed! -greg On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 3:08 PM David Kellogg < dkellogg60@gmail.com> wrote: Helena-- Situation in China, courtesy my sister-in-law: life in Beijing is pretty much back to normal at least on the face of it. People are going out to their work units (but there is more work from home than before the crisis). Classes still largely taught from ZOOM. My nephew is in Shanghai, where the situation is somewhat tighter (proximity to Wuhan). Wuhan opened up for real yesterday--people can leave (I lived there for two years in the mid-eighties, but I can barely recognize what I see on the news now....) I have students in Chengdu (who attend my class via ZOOM). People are mostly shopping on line with delivery to the gate of the housing unit rather than to their flat (as we do here in Korea). Air quality better than it's been in decades. Situation here in South Korea: We just extended our lockdown for another two weeks. This is in response to a few days of new infections over a hundred, but the infections are mostly (80%) Koreans from the US and Europe who want to live in a place where the medical system has not broken down or is not in the process of breaking down. There are still some "hotspots" of community transmission, but these are almost all connected with churches or PC cafes. Schools reopen on the 16th, but only online. We have elections in a week, and there is a lot of campaigning going on, including the usual street based campaigning (the right wing opposition campaigns around the curious notion that the government has done absolutely nothing, and the government ignores everybody who is not an actual virus). People shop in stores, and there is no panic buying or disruption of supply chains. The main changes in economic life seem to have to do with transport, and it seems like this too will be permanent (electric scooters are everywhere now). Bowing instead of shaking hands is really not a bad idea, and coffee-shops always were over-rated and over-priced.... But what about you, Helena? (One of the things I have learned on this list is that you get more or less what you give--people tend to use what you write as a model for writing back!) Are you still in Vietnam? Your address says Berkeley and your email says Illinois--those are three very different venues for the virus and the economy. Can you give us a brief account of the situation in each? Stay safe, wherever you are! David Kellogg Sangmyung University Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational action research in Mind Culture and Activity https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 Some free e-prints available at: https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 4:30 AM Martin Packer < mpacker@cantab.net> wrote: Hi Helena, I share your concerns. And, despite its challenges, this situation seems a great opportunity to apply our distributed expertise(s). I tried to get some discussion going in a group concerned with the Anthropocene, but people seemed disinclined. Martin Here?s the first message that I sent? The current situation is producing important evidence about the probable consequences of the strategies proposed to mitigate climate change. Satellites are showing significant reductions in pollution: https://www.space.com/italy-coronavirus-outbreak-response-reduces-emissions-satellite-images.html Experts are suggesting that as a result the coronavirus may save more lives than it takes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2020/03/11/coronavirus-lockdown-may-save-more-lives-from-pollution-and-climate-than-from-virus/#4a39bb3c5764 So when skeptics ask ?How can you know that reducing air travel will help with climate change?? there is now clear evidence with which to answer them. Also in China: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/04/811019032/why-chinas-air-has-been-cleaner-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak At the same time, I am starting to wonder whether the current health guidelines regarding coronvirus are culturally biased. Can they work in ?collectivist? cultures (to use the shorthand)? The CDC guidelines, for example, include the recommendations to ?Stay home when you are sick,? but also that other members of the household should ?Avoid close contact with people who are sick? and should ?Choose a room in your home that can be used to separate sick household members from those who are healthy. Identify a separate bathroom for the sick person to use, if possible.? This advice is simply not practicable for many households in Colombia. There are not enough rooms; there is no second bathroom. In addition, many infants and young children here are cared for by grandparents, or even great-grandparents (many women here have a baby when young, so an infant may have a grandmother who is in her late 30s and a great-grandmother in her late 50s). The evidence shows that children don?t become very ill, but they do get infected and they can infect other people, among whom elderly caregivers will be the most at risk. So I don?t think social distance and auto-quarantine will work in Colombia. Consider what the Chinese did: they went door-to-door to identify infected family members and removed them to massive collective quarantine setttings. People in the West considered this to be draconian, even cruel. But it made sense: much more cross-infection occurred in Chinese homes than in places like restaurants. Unless the authorities can come up with strategies that are more appropriate to local circumstances and practices, there is likely to be a rapid and elevated peak of infections in Latin American countries. And I see there is a related point here, on ageism: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200313155256.htm On Apr 7, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Helena Worthen < helenaworthen@gmail.com> wrote: Hello, XMCA-ers - I don?t remember ever having read that this list was going to shut down or even be allowed to fade away. So now I?m writing, as if in the dark, to the whole list. We?ve now got a major ? maybe ?the? major crisis of the anthropocene on our hands and the distant but connected network represented by the conversations on this list seem to me to be a treasure more precious than gold - and I?m not speaking metaphorically. I am concerned about some of the people who have been pillars and resources on his list, people whom I have reached out to over the years and heard back from with information and perspectives that I would never have been able to access on my own. Where are you now? What are you doing? Are you safe and healthy? Do you have information about friends who are unable to read or respond to this request? I hope to hear some responses to this message. Take care of yourselves, please ? Helena Helena Worthen hworthen@illinois.edu 21 San Mateo Road, Berkeley, CA 94707 -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson -- Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a landslide. Roy D'Andrade --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu . For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu . -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200411/36c09b32/attachment.html From ulvi.icil@gmail.com Sat Apr 11 07:18:17 2020 From: ulvi.icil@gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?VWx2aSDEsMOnaWw=?=) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 17:18:17 +0300 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: <032101d61009$412ff3a0$c38fdae0$@smu.ac.za> References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> <001301d60dcb$0b376430$21a62c90$@att.net> <7F97CF82-25AF-4388-98AC-D6A838CA008F@gmail.com> <000001d60df4$f492efe0$ddb8cfa0$@att.net> <62CFE8B1-276D-4C4C-90CF-C1E3C3352418@gmail.com> <000601d60f58$bc76cf90$35646eb0$@att.net> <42648D96-D18D-4CC9-8F8B-0CD6F6E7AD46@gmail.com> <032101d61009$412ff3a0$c38fdae0$@smu.ac.za> Message-ID: Dear Annalie, You reminded me the sentence of El Che: "Then I realized a fundamental thing: For one to be a revolutionary doctor or to be a revolutionary at all, there must first be a revolution". (https://www.marxists.org/archive/guevara/1960/08/19.htm) South Africa has always been a very beloved country for myself. I think that the fundamental problem for us, for working-class is that, we, in the 20th and 21st centuries, could not develop enough the consciousness that we should destroy the capitalism, we should not delay this with any pretext whenever we have the historical moment before us. I think that this has been the main fault of the world communist movement, its parties and their leadership in particular and of the world leftist movement in general. I think that we should feel and be aware of Lukacs already said nearly 100 years ago: Actuality of socialist revolution.( https://www.marxists.org/archive/lukacs/works/1924/lenin/index.htm) We missed an opportunity for a socialist revolution in the 70s in Turkey, and I think the same for South Africa at the exit from apartheid, the same for Chile at the exit of Pinochet. But now, at the exit of Erdogan, we do not aim a bourgeois democracy. Hegel and Lenin teach us that we must aim a socialist revolution this time. Best wishes from Turkey, Ulvi On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 at 17:01, Annalie Pistorius wrote: > Hi im still here with you. Sitting together is something to do. Our > university had shut down before the lockdown here in South Africa ? our > students and SRC being medical students have taken charge the way they > usually do. I must say they always impress me, how they can manoeuvre all > staff when there is a leadership crisis. However now with the Corona world > crisis, I am impressed how everyone here including our leaders stand firm > and together, herding us and being giving to poor communities. > > I watch BBC world news almost every day, and was impressed to see that > even in Cape Town our gang members have started using their leadership to > organise and direct the handing out of food parcels to their community > members. Of cause, not everyone is seeing all of this as positive as I am > painting it here. > > I am reminded of the bitter sweetness of the situation, by my patient > (with whom I am doing psychotherapy sessions on my cell phone at a very > high cost, don?t ask me why not on internet), that his problem of stress, > headaches and severe depression is dissolving because he is not at work. > No-one shouting into his ears, the voices of critique fading?Now what > should be done so that when he goes back his problem continues to dissolve? > > Is this our moment to build onto? ? how we can change psychotherapies to > be social and revolutionary so that patients can insist that people in > their worlds change with them? > > That?s why I am here listening. > > Greetings > > Annalie > > > > > > *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu *On > Behalf Of *Alfredo Jornet Gil > *Sent:* Saturday, 11 April 2020 10:58 AM > *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? > > > > The list of xmca members is indeed long! Here is a link to the list: > http://lchc-resources.org/xmca/subscriber_list.php > > Alfredo > > > > > > *From: * on behalf of Helena Worthen < > helenaworthen@gmail.com> > *Reply to: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > *Date: *Friday, 10 April 2020 at 22:11 > *To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? > > > > This is a gracefully written New Yorker-worthy piece of dark dystopian > fiction. I would like to start up the whole Utopia discussion again, which > I never felt clamped its teeth down hard enough.Thanks, David. > > > > I am seeing responses from David Kellogg, Peg Griffin, Mike Cole, Greg > Thompson, Rein Raud in Estonia, David Kirshner, Ed Wall, Henry Shoner, Andy > Blunden, Martin Packer in Bogota, Richard Beach ? who did I miss? There > are more of us out there. I worry about Haydi in Iran. > > > > I am swamped with Zoom, telephone and email. Rather than clog up this > list I?ll re-visit my blog (below) just in case anyone reads it ? this is > with regards to the price of vegetables, David Kellogg. > > > > Other than that: the book about contingency goes back through 4 past > transitions in higher education: standardization (Carnegie, SATs etc); > expansion (the GI bill); the Movement era (civil rights, 1968, etc) and > then the neoliberal contraction, for which the explosion of contingency (no > job security/no academic freedom, crap wages) was a solution to a set of > interlocking administrative problems. WE then go into a lot of detail about > what organizing unions for faculty and campus workers in higher education > is like. Thanks for asking, David. > > > > I?m doing Zoom piano lessons for grandchildren, in hopes that they will > come out of this with at least one skill that is useful to humanity. Also > working with DSA (Democratic Socialists of America) to lead reading groups > about the recent wave of teacher strikes. Still owe Andy a review of his > Hegel book; thanks for uploading the difference between Hegel and Marx > paper, Andy. > > > > There are still some more xmca-ers out there that haven't checked in. > > > > > > Helena Worthen > > 21 San MAteo Road, Berkeley 94707 > > 510-828-2745 > > > > helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 10, 2020, at 12:39 PM, mike cole wrote: > > > > The new samizdat, David? > > mike > > > > On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 10:31 AM David H Kirshner wrote: > > Here?s a fictional reminder of what more may be at stake in the current > political era. > > https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/04/06/love-letter > > David > > > > *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu *On > Behalf Of *Peg Griffin, Ph.D. > *Sent:* Friday, April 10, 2020 11:55 AM > *To:* 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' > *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? > > > > Henry, > > Only thing I know for sure about any bill is this: If it doesn?t serve > well the top 1%, then McConnell won?t have it come to the floor for a vote > in the Senate, so many reasonably good bills are never enacted and no > Senator or President need be held accountable about their opposition. > > > > But, what I know about intersectional groups in the past few years is that > we have to reach out in any and all ways possible to be sure we do not step > on each other?s messages, actions, and needs, and to be sure we have ways > of getting and giving timely support as allies. > > > > It sounds wimpy for a bumper sticker, but I wish I had one that said > ?Protect Fragile Solidarity!? > > I think we may be inching in that awkward direction though: SPLC has > normalized the bumper sticker, ?Restore the Vote.? > > Peg > > > > *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [ > mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu ] *On > Behalf Of *HENRY SHONERD > *Sent:* Friday, April 10, 2020 12:05 AM > *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? > > > > Peg, > > I really don?t know anymore about life on the Rez now than what I read on > line, what I have heard on Native America Calling on our local public radio > station KUNM and what I hear from my Navajo Family near Shiprock. So far, > no one in my family there is sick. I have no insider information that might > help pull the right strings in DC. Deb Haaland sends out regular bulletins > describing what she is doing to benefit all New Mexicans, no specific > mention of what?s happening on the Navajo. You know more about the bills > than I do! > > Henry > > > > > > On Apr 9, 2020, at 2:36 PM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. > wrote: > > > > Henry, may I ask you to discuss Co-Vid 19 in the Navajo Nation? From news > reports the Nation seems to be proactive, trying new and old ways of > proceeding. But, in comparison to nearby states, more and deeper problems > faced with fewer and less stable resources? DC got robbed in the second > bailout bill ? way underfunded. Plans are getting formed and deformed > about pushing for fixes in the next bill (now in messes in both House and > Senate). Do you know if there are any Navajo plans that DC folk can > support, maybe learn from (or at least stop from inadvertently stepping > on?) Is staff in Deb Haaland?s office in the HOB a good place to try to > find out or ?? > > > > A good fantasy about November, Henry. Somehow, it reminds me of the early > days in the Fifth Dimension. The children engaged in transformational > journeys, taking their avatars through rooms in a table top maze, choosing > which of several openings they would use as entry and eventual exit, > choosing which of different tasks in the room to do (harder tasks coupled > with more choice over which exits from room they could use), collaborating > with peers and lovely Big Sisters and Brothers, and there was always the > Wizard ?guardian or trickster or sometimes asleep at the wheel. At an > exit, avatars transformed and children went to the creature store to pick > the token of the transformation to travel with if they chose to enter the 5 > th D again. > > > > But there was also a different world with university and public school > calendars and rites of passage. At times for seams important to that world, > the children got shirts screen-printed with words ranging from ?I conquered > the 5thdimension? ?I barely survived the 5th Dimension? ?I almost > survived the 5th Dimension? and so on ?I?m in the middle? ?I?m just > starting?? A child reviewed the prior period of time, negotiating which > words would be on their shirt. (Of all the weird things in the 5th D, > Mike laughs best about the carefully differentiated shirts.) > > > > So, how about you and I in the here(s) and now(s)? We make choice after > choice after choice and work hard at enough to transform the current > elected officials to try to choose better creatures as we exit this > iteration of a government and enter again for choices and tasks in the next > iteration. Concurrently, we have to keep our eye on the prize of the CoVid > 19 pandemic world and survival in it. > > > > BTW, I do live inside the Beltway ? 12 blocks north and east of Union > Station. The museums, the food, and the HOBs (House Office Buildings) ? as > well as the SOBs across the capitol park ? all nearby, familiar sites of > camaraderie for efforts, some successful and some not so much. > > > > Peg > > > > *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [ > mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu ] *On > Behalf Of *HENRY SHONERD > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 8, 2020 7:52 PM > *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? > > > > I was born at Mercy Hospital in Washington DC. Do you actually live inside > the Beltway? Great museums there and food. Scads of family from both Judy?s > and my side. One of the last times I visited there, I went to Michelle?s > office: She was our representative at the time. She gets around. > > > > I have this fantasy brought on by the pandemic and New Mexico?s Blue > (Democratic) sweep in 2018 that brought us three kick-ass women: Governor > Michelle...Representative Deborah Halland for Albuquerque and surrounds > where we live (I canvassed for her in the primary!)?and Representative > Xochi Small to the south. All Democrats. The fantasy is that these historic > times, this perizhvanie, this Lev budding, will bear fruit in November that > gets us through another narrow place. And we will celebrate. Fitting that > Passover is tonight, a celebration of liberation from slavery, and a time > when we recognize that we are all really strangers, wherever we live. > > > > Yikes! Talk about Biblical dialect! It?s as catching as that Corona bug! > > > > Must stay well > > Henry > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 8, 2020, at 4:27 PM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. > wrote: > > > > I live in Washington, DC, Henry, but my roots here are by way of LCHC in > San Diego which begot xlchc which begot xmca. Don?t know why I switched > into a biblical dialect, but not hallucinations, just whimsy. And a little > tired this evening. > > Did you notice how my motif in my last post turned unto motive when I sent > it? I think it was Leonti?ev sneaking in. > > The description of your mask seems dashing! Could Judy have alternative > (or ulterior) motive (or motif)? > > Hmmm, just recognized the 5th Dimension wanting into the lineage > recital. Still no hallucination just a few sips of a nice Tuscan blend? > > Peg > > > > *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [ > mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu ] *On > Behalf Of *HENRY SHONERD > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 8, 2020 5:14 PM > *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? > > > > Hey Peg! > > Yes, I will tell Governor Michelle you?re rooting for her from where you > and yours are at! Please forgive my senior moment, but where do YOU live? > > > > My wife Judy figured out how to make a mask from a bandana and two hair > ties. Like I?m ready to rob the stage coach, full of ppe (personal > protective equipment).:) I saw a cartoon of Trump and his underlings at one > of his you-can?t-make-it-up briefings. They are wearing masks that cover > nose and mouth. Trump has a Lone Ranger mask. Here?s a link for those short > on Americana: > > > https://www.pinterest.com/robertharmon311/lone-ranger-mask-patterns-for-save-ranger-challeng/ > > > > > Stay safe and well! > > Henry > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 8, 2020, at 11:27 AM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. > wrote: > > > > Henry, please tell your governor/friend, Michelle Lujan Grisham, ?We see > her, we hear her, we love her, and we know we need her.? > > > > Groups here that made good use of allies before the pandemic are making > good, well-planned use of us now, especially for those in the shadows, by > necessity or oversight, to address basic food and medical insecurity. > > > > And thank you, too, Henry and others on xmca. > > > > Relatively healthy (AKA no Co-vid19 that we know of and well masked ? my > favorite right now is an easily washed and bleached homemade one with a > blue lamb motive ? anyone need a pdf for making adult or child masks, with > or without hepa-filters?) and safe, > > Peg > > > > *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [ > mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu ] *On > Behalf Of *HENRY SHONERD > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 8, 2020 12:48 PM > *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? > > > > Hi All, > > Like Greg, I was struck by Andy?s sense that China may go back to ?normal? > but the neo-liberal ?first" world is and will be experiencing a profound > perizhvanie. You?d hope it will be for the good. > > > > In the U.S,, generally, rates of infection are positively correlated with > density of population. For example, I live in New Mexico, the fifth largest > state in the U.S. with a population of a little over a one million and the > lowest rate of infection?so far. However, our Navajo live spread out to the > west and north of us, but have very high rates of infection. Little Zia > Pueblo, just an our by car to the north and west of us, only has about a > thousand people, with eleven confirmed cases. Poverty. In the country as a > whole people of color have relatively higher rates of infection. Poverty. > > > > Our governor, Michelle Lujan Grisham (who I am proud to say is a good > friend), has been successful in pushing baci against Trump?s efforts to > punish states that did not vote for him by being less than cooperative in > providing resources against the pandemic. She has been using her bully > pulpit against Trump's bloviating. His hot air has got to be an infectious > agent. Most of us are using masks in public, evidence indicating that it > protects OTHERS by wearing them. Trump prefers NOT to wear a mask. > Consistent with his politics. You can?t make this up. > > > > Be well, > > Henry > > > > On Apr 8, 2020, at 9:00 AM, Greg Thompson > wrote: > > > > David, > > > > I wonder if you could say more about your experience of the state-based > "surveillance" in SK. There are lots of different groups in the U.S., both > on the left and the right, who are up in arms about the "tracking" of > citizens via credit card and cell phone usage. > > > > And it sounds like this is a global concern as Mary's report from SA > suggests. > > > > Also how interesting how similar the conspiracy theories are around the > globe (globalization and the spread of viral ideas?). That's world > perezhivanie indeed! > > > > -greg > > > > On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 3:08 PM David Kellogg wrote: > > Helena-- > > > > Situation in China, courtesy my sister-in-law: life in Beijing is pretty > much back to normal at least on the face of it. People are going out to > their work units (but there is more work from home than before the > crisis). Classes still largely taught from ZOOM. My nephew is in > Shanghai, where the situation is somewhat tighter (proximity to > Wuhan). Wuhan opened up for real yesterday--people can leave (I lived there > for two years in the mid-eighties, but I can barely recognize what I see on > the news now....) I have students in Chengdu (who attend my class via > ZOOM). People are mostly shopping on line with delivery to the gate of the > housing unit rather than to their flat (as we do here in Korea). Air > quality better than it's been in decades. > > > > Situation here in South Korea: We just extended our lockdown for another > two weeks. This is in response to a few days of new infections over a > hundred, but the infections are mostly (80%) Koreans from the US and Europe > who want to live in a place where the medical system has not broken down or > is not in the process of breaking down. There are still some "hotspots" of > community transmission, but these are almost all connected with churches or > PC cafes. Schools reopen on the 16th, but only online. We have elections in > a week, and there is a lot of campaigning going on, including the usual > street based campaigning (the right wing opposition campaigns around the > curious notion that the government has done absolutely nothing, and the > government ignores everybody who is not an actual virus). People shop in > stores, and there is no panic buying or disruption of supply chains. The > main changes in economic life seem to have to do with transport, and it > seems like this too will be permanent (electric scooters are everywhere > now). Bowing instead of shaking hands is really not a bad idea, and > coffee-shops always were over-rated and over-priced.... > > > > But what about you, Helena? (One of the things I have learned on this list > is that you get more or less what you give--people tend to use what you > write as a model for writing back!) Are you still in Vietnam? Your address > says Berkeley and your email says Illinois--those are three very different > venues for the virus and the economy. Can you give us a brief account of > the situation in each? > > > > Stay safe, wherever you are! > > > David Kellogg > > Sangmyung University > > > > Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of *Critical > Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational > action research * > > in *Mind Culture and Activity* > > > > *https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847* > > > > > Some free e-prints available at: > > > > > https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 > > > > > New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works > Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" > > > > https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 4:30 AM Martin Packer wrote: > > Hi Helena, > > > > I share your concerns. And, despite its challenges, this situation seems a > great opportunity to apply our distributed expertise(s). I tried to get > some discussion going in a group concerned with the Anthropocene, but > people seemed disinclined. > > > > Martin > > > > Here?s the first message that I sent? > > > > The current situation is producing important evidence about the probable > consequences of the strategies proposed to mitigate climate change. > Satellites are showing significant reductions in pollution: > > > https://www.space.com/italy-coronavirus-outbreak-response-reduces-emissions-satellite-images.html > > > Experts are suggesting that as a result the coronavirus may save more > lives than it takes: > > > https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2020/03/11/coronavirus-lockdown-may-save-more-lives-from-pollution-and-climate-than-from-virus/#4a39bb3c5764 > > > So when skeptics ask ?How can you know that reducing air travel will help > with climate change?? there is now clear evidence with which to answer them. > > > > Also in China: > > > https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/04/811019032/why-chinas-air-has-been-cleaner-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak > > > > > At the same time, I am starting to wonder whether the current health > guidelines regarding coronvirus are culturally biased. Can they work in > ?collectivist? cultures (to use the shorthand)? The CDC guidelines, for > example, include the recommendations to ?Stay home when you are sick,? but > also that other members of the household should ?Avoid close contact with > people who are sick? and should ?Choose a room in your home that can be > used to separate sick household members from those who are healthy. > Identify a separate bathroom for the sick person to use, if possible.? > > This advice is simply not practicable for many households in Colombia. > There are not enough rooms; there is no second bathroom. In addition, many > infants and young children here are cared for by grandparents, or even > great-grandparents (many women here have a baby when young, so an infant > may have a grandmother who is in her late 30s and a great-grandmother in > her late 50s). The evidence shows that children don?t become very ill, but > they do get infected and they can infect other people, among whom elderly > caregivers will be the most at risk. > > So I don?t think social distance and auto-quarantine will work in > Colombia. Consider what the Chinese did: they went door-to-door to identify > infected family members and removed them to massive collective quarantine > setttings. People in the West considered this to be draconian, even cruel. > But it made sense: much more cross-infection occurred in Chinese homes than > in places like restaurants. > > Unless the authorities can come up with strategies that are more > appropriate to local circumstances and practices, there is likely to be a > rapid and elevated peak of infections in Latin American countries. > > > > And I see there is a related point here, on ageism: > > https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200313155256.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 7, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Helena Worthen > wrote: > > > > Hello, XMCA-ers - > > > > I don?t remember ever having read that this list was going to shut down or > even be allowed to fade away. So now I?m writing, as if in the dark, to the > whole list. We?ve now got a major ? maybe ?the? major crisis of the > anthropocene on our hands and the distant but connected network represented > by the conversations on this list seem to me to be a treasure more precious > than gold - and I?m not speaking metaphorically. > > > > I am concerned about some of the people who have been pillars and > resources on his list, people whom I have reached out to over the years and > heard back from with information and perspectives that I would never have > been able to access on my own. Where are you now? What are you doing? Are > you safe and healthy? Do you have information about friends who are unable > to read or respond to this request? > > > > I hope to hear some responses to this message. > > > > Take care of yourselves, please ? > > > > Helena > > > > > > Helena Worthen > > hworthen@illinois.edu > > 21 San Mateo Road, Berkeley, CA 94707 > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > > Assistant Professor > > Department of Anthropology > > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > > Brigham Young University > > Provo, UT 84602 > > WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson > > > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > > > > > > > > -- > > Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a > landslide. Roy D'Andrade > > --------------------------------------------------- > > For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other > members of LCHC, visit > > lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the > research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200411/1f833c14/attachment.html From greg.a.thompson@gmail.com Sat Apr 11 09:34:32 2020 From: greg.a.thompson@gmail.com (Greg Thompson) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 10:34:32 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> Message-ID: Two things. 1. The Listserve is acting misogynistic - I didn't see Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont's OR Annalie PIstorus' original messages to the list, I only saw their comments below the male responses to their comments (Mike's to Anne-Nelly and Ulvi's to Annalie). Maybe the code of the listserve is actually literally structurally biased against women's voices? (I'm half-joking but I'm totally serious about not seeing their original posts). 2. The link that Anne-Nelly sent was to a Bruno Latour paper (link below) that included the challenge to think about what things we can give up or change when life goes back to "normal" so that we aren't still in the same mess that we were before. I wonder if folks on this list might be interested in having a go at the exercise? I'm also curious if Anne-Nelly might be willing to share the thinking that her group has done on this? Here is the list of questions: Let us take advantage of the forced suspension of most activities to take stock of those we would like to see discontinued and those, on the contrary, that we would like to see developed. I suggest that readers try to answer this short questionnaire for themselves. It will be especially useful as it will be based on a personal experience that has been directly lived. This exercise is not a question of expressing an opinion but of describing your situation and may be investigating. It is only later, if one were to give oneself the means of compiling the answers of many respondents and then composing the landscape created by their intersections, that one could find a form of political expression - but this time embodied and situated in a concrete world. Answer the following questions first individually and then if possible with others: Question 1: What are the activities now suspended that you would like to see not resumed? Question 2: Describe why you think this activity is harmful/ superfluous/ dangerous/inconsistent and how its disappearance/suspension/substitution would make the activities you favor easier/ more consistent. (Make a separate paragraph for each of the activities listed in question 1). Question 3: What measures do you recommend to ensure that the workers/employees/agents/entrepreneurs who will no longer be able to continue in the activities you are removing are helped in their transition toward other activities. Question 4: Which of the now suspended activities would you like to develop/resume or even create from scratch? Question 5: Describe why this activity seems positive to you and how it makes it easier/ more harmonious/ consistent with other activities that you favor and helps to combat those that you consider unfavorable. (Make a separate paragraph for each of the activities listed in question 4). Question 6: What measures do you recommend to help workers/ employees/ agents/ entrepreneurs acquire the capacities/ means/ income/ instruments to take over/ develop/ create this favored activity. Now, find a way to compare your descriptions with those of other participants. Compiling and then superimposing the answers should gradually produce a landscape made of lines of conflict, alliances, controversy and opposition. This terrain may provide a concrete opportunity for creating the forms of political expression these activities require. Here are links to the paper in 6 different languages: http://www.bruno-latour.fr/node/852.html Cheers, Greg On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 9:51 PM mike cole wrote: > Hi Anna-Lisa. What you describe has great similarities what people in the > US are experiencing with the exception that it is now clear for all to see > that it is poverty, or the security of the vulnerable (same thing in my > view). > > Thanks very much for the Latium letter. It is totally relevant right now. > > Mike > > On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 9:38 AM PERRET-CLERMONT Anne-Nelly < > Anne-Nelly.Perret-Clermont@unine.ch> wrote: > >> Hello everybody! >> >> Thank you so much for all the news and perspectives that are being shared >> from all over the Planet. Such difficult times, especially for those who >> can?t even send news... >> >> Some news from Switzerland, a privileged country, yet with very serious >> contamination rates. Almost 4 weeks of confinement (rights to go out are >> very limited and only a limited number of professions are still working) >> that totally re-organize our private and public life. >> >> The sun is shining wonderfully and it is very tempting to move out for >> this Easter holiday. Nevertheless, most people are very disciplined and >> stay home in confinement. >> It took a lot of time for the local, cantonal and federal authorities to >> decide on the confinement measures. Switzerland?s political traditions >> impose bottom-up decisions. But the result of this (too slow?) process >> seems to be that most people agree and comply with this policy. Police >> forces try to do education and not repression. But the peak of the tide of >> contamination has not been reached yet and hospitals are under stress. >> >> The economic stress due to this long shut down arises a lot of fear on >> the side of trade unions and employers associations. Switzerland has very >> large multinational companies, but 90% of its firms are small or medium >> size business. Quite a number of them are now reaching the edge of >> bankruptcy. If they should go bankrup,t this would totally disorganise the >> country, its daily style of life and more: small firms and their locations >> impact regional demography, resources, power (in a federation of cantons), >> etc. after compulsory education, 60% of the young people attend dual >> education (i.e. half time in firms and half-time in school) and if firms >> shut down this education will fall apart. Government, banks and networks of >> citizens are lending money and trying to maintain these small firms alive. >> Unemployment rate is raising but rents have to be paid. Etc? >> >> Switzerland is a country of pharmaceutical industry and engineers. But >> the panic in the hospitals is not over: equipment is insufficient, and >> drugs are starting to miss. Local enterprises have the know how to make >> them but ?with ingredients that come exclusively from China and India. >> Hospitals have been afraid of losing 25% to 40% of their staff as nurses >> often come from the bordering regions of France and Italy. Finally, these >> countries have locked their borders but not for those professionals. This >> does not solve the problem on the long term, of course as these countries >> also need more medical staff. We hope that a growing awareness of the >> importance (and respect and salary) due to these professions will finally >> have the necessary impact. At 9 p.m., everybody goes at the window or >> balcony to give them a clap (or ring bells or even play music) for a minute >> to thank all the medical staff and other professions (e.g., cleaners) who >> likewise take enormous risks and make great efforts. >> >> The number of beds in the hospitals has been seriously increased by >> creative means. The ultraliberal policy of the last decade had seriously >> cut down the number of beds in hospital and sent many many patients to >> private practice and ambulatory treatment. But the government, when >> declaring confinement, has also declared that medical practitioners should >> only do online treatment and should close their practice. Result: 3 weeks >> later medical authorities are very worried: many patients in serious >> conditions or with severe chronic diseases don?t dare to call their medical >> practitioner and are afraid to go to the emergency services in hospital >> (fear of overloading them, fear of infection by Covid and fear of being cut >> out from their families (not allowed in the hospital). The pronostic is a >> possible wave of very serious cases needing urgent and heavy treatment. >> This wave will put extra-pressure on the sanitary system already >> overburden. Meanwhile small medical units are close to bankruptcy : their >> have to pay the salaries of their staff but have no income to do so. >> >> There is also a (still small) growing concern among social scientists >> that the teams that reflect on the pandemic and the confinement measures >> (and the planning of the end of the confinement) are made up of exclusively >> of epidemiologists and economists (with one or two specialists in ethics). >> Hence the psychic and social problems of the confined population are >> probably underestimated. >> Little is known of the underprivileged part of the population, now >> unemployed, in small housing, with little outreach. Schooling has gone >> online in a fortnight (with absolutely no preparation) but many students >> don?t have connections or share the unique computer of the household with >> parents and siblings all supposedly on line. >> >> This is only a few elements that characterise the situation. In parallel, >> many citizens are becoming increasingly aware of the dangers of the total >> interdependence of the economy and of the ecological disasters that this >> creates. Sanitary disasters and ecological disasters are much more >> interrelated than expected (a very nice book to understand that biological >> processes and ways of life social life are interdependent: Rob Dunn *"Never >> home alone. **From Microbes to Millipedes, Camel Crickets, and >> Honeybees, the Natural History of Where We Live"*). >> >> There are also plenty of many nice examples of solidarity, creativity, >> etc. They need to converge and be made visible. >> >> We (MAPS in University of Neuch?tel) are engaging in a large inquiry >> based on Bruno Latour?s call (March 29, 2020): "A little exercise to >> make sure that, after the virus crisis, things don?t start again as they >> were before" (see http://www.bruno-latour.fr/node/852.html with already >> versions in English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Polish, German, Dutch). >> >> Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont >> >> >> >> Prof. em. Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont >> Institut de psychologie et ?ducation Facult? des lettres et sciences >> humaines >> Universit? de Neuch?tel >> Espace Tilo-Frey 1 >> >> (Anciennement: Espace Louis-Agassiz 1) >> >> CH- 2000 Neuch?tel (Suisse >> >> ) >> http://www.unine.ch/ipe/publications/anne_nelly_perret_clermont >> >> Last publications: >> Perret-Clermont, A.-N., Sch?r, R., Greco, S., Convertini, J., Iannaccone, >> A., & Rocci, A. (2019). Shifting from a monological to a dialogical >> perspective on children?s argumentation. Lessons learned. In F. H. van >> Eemren & B. Garssen (Eds.), *Argumentation in actual practice. Topical >> studies about argumentative discourse in context* (pp. 211-236): John >> Benjamins Publishing Company. *Version ?lectronique >> *Iannaccone, A., Perret-Clermont, >> A.-N., & Convertini, J. (2019). Children as investigators of Brunerian >> ?Possible worlds?. The role of narrative scenarios in children?s >> argumentative thinking. . Integrative Psychological and Behiavioral >> Science, 53, 679-693. *Version ?lectronique >> * >> >> Perret-Clermont, A.-N., Perret, J.-F., Pochon, L.-O., & Marro, P. (2019). Hommage >> ? Jacques Perriault. Hermes, La Revue, 3, 226-226. >> >> In J.-P. Fragni?re (Ed.), Agir et penser avec Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont >> (pp. 71-107). Lausanne: Editions Socialinfo >> https://www.socialinfo.ch/les-livres/38-agir-et-penser-avec-anne-nelly-perret-clermont.html >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- > Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a > landslide. Roy D'Andrade > --------------------------------------------------- > For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other > members of LCHC, visit > lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the > research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. > > > -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200411/1af3aa80/attachment.html From mcole@ucsd.edu Sat Apr 11 09:50:08 2020 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 09:50:08 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> Message-ID: Thanks for pointing out the problem, Greg. Its a new one to me. I am ccing bruce jones to look into matters. The invitation from Bruno Latour is quite interesting. It seems worthwhile contributing to and for sure knowing about. mike (and apologies to Anne-Nelly for my too-late-in-the-day senior moment!) On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 9:38 AM Greg Thompson wrote: > Two things. > > 1. The Listserve is acting misogynistic - I didn't see Anne-Nelly > Perret-Clermont's OR Annalie PIstorus' original messages to the list, I > only saw their comments below the male responses to their comments (Mike's > to Anne-Nelly and Ulvi's to Annalie). Maybe the code of the listserve is > actually literally structurally biased against women's voices? (I'm > half-joking but I'm totally serious about not seeing their original posts). > > 2. The link that Anne-Nelly sent was to a Bruno Latour paper (link below) > that included the challenge to think about what things we can give up or > change when life goes back to "normal" so that we aren't still in the same > mess that we were before. I wonder if folks on this list might be > interested in having a go at the exercise? > I'm also curious if Anne-Nelly might be willing to share the thinking that > her group has done on this? > > Here is the list of questions: > Let us take advantage of the forced suspension of most activities to take > stock of those we would like to see discontinued and those, on the > contrary, that we would like to see developed. > I suggest that readers try to answer this short questionnaire for > themselves. It will be especially useful as it will be based on a personal > experience that has been directly lived. This exercise is not a question of > expressing an opinion but of describing your situation and may be > investigating. It is only later, if one were to give oneself the means of > compiling the answers of many respondents and then composing the landscape > created by their intersections, that one could find a form of political > expression - but this time embodied and situated in a concrete world. > Answer the following questions first individually and then if possible > with others: > Question 1: What are the activities now suspended that you would like to > see not resumed? > Question 2: Describe why you think this activity is harmful/ superfluous/ > dangerous/inconsistent and how its disappearance/suspension/substitution > would make the activities you favor easier/ more consistent. (Make a > separate paragraph for each of the activities listed in question 1). > Question 3: What measures do you recommend to ensure that the > workers/employees/agents/entrepreneurs who will no longer be able to > continue in the activities you are removing are helped in their transition > toward other activities. > Question 4: Which of the now suspended activities would you like to > develop/resume or even create from scratch? > Question 5: Describe why this activity seems positive to you and how it > makes it easier/ more harmonious/ consistent with other activities that you > favor and helps to combat those that you consider unfavorable. (Make a > separate paragraph for each of the activities listed in question 4). > Question 6: What measures do you recommend to help workers/ employees/ > agents/ entrepreneurs acquire the capacities/ means/ income/ instruments to > take over/ develop/ create this favored activity. > Now, find a way to compare your descriptions with those of other > participants. Compiling and then superimposing the answers should gradually > produce a landscape made of lines of conflict, alliances, controversy and > opposition. This terrain may provide a concrete opportunity for creating > the forms of political expression these activities require. > > Here are links to the paper in 6 different languages: > http://www.bruno-latour.fr/node/852.html > > Cheers, > Greg > > > > On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 9:51 PM mike cole wrote: > >> Hi Anna-Lisa. What you describe has great similarities what people in the >> US are experiencing with the exception that it is now clear for all to see >> that it is poverty, or the security of the vulnerable (same thing in my >> view). >> >> Thanks very much for the Latium letter. It is totally relevant right now. >> >> Mike >> >> On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 9:38 AM PERRET-CLERMONT Anne-Nelly < >> Anne-Nelly.Perret-Clermont@unine.ch> wrote: >> >>> Hello everybody! >>> >>> Thank you so much for all the news and perspectives that are being >>> shared from all over the Planet. Such difficult times, especially for those >>> who can?t even send news... >>> >>> Some news from Switzerland, a privileged country, yet with very serious >>> contamination rates. Almost 4 weeks of confinement (rights to go out are >>> very limited and only a limited number of professions are still working) >>> that totally re-organize our private and public life. >>> >>> The sun is shining wonderfully and it is very tempting to move out for >>> this Easter holiday. Nevertheless, most people are very disciplined and >>> stay home in confinement. >>> It took a lot of time for the local, cantonal and federal authorities to >>> decide on the confinement measures. Switzerland?s political traditions >>> impose bottom-up decisions. But the result of this (too slow?) process >>> seems to be that most people agree and comply with this policy. Police >>> forces try to do education and not repression. But the peak of the tide of >>> contamination has not been reached yet and hospitals are under stress. >>> >>> The economic stress due to this long shut down arises a lot of fear on >>> the side of trade unions and employers associations. Switzerland has very >>> large multinational companies, but 90% of its firms are small or medium >>> size business. Quite a number of them are now reaching the edge of >>> bankruptcy. If they should go bankrup,t this would totally disorganise the >>> country, its daily style of life and more: small firms and their locations >>> impact regional demography, resources, power (in a federation of cantons), >>> etc. after compulsory education, 60% of the young people attend dual >>> education (i.e. half time in firms and half-time in school) and if firms >>> shut down this education will fall apart. Government, banks and networks of >>> citizens are lending money and trying to maintain these small firms alive. >>> Unemployment rate is raising but rents have to be paid. Etc? >>> >>> Switzerland is a country of pharmaceutical industry and engineers. But >>> the panic in the hospitals is not over: equipment is insufficient, and >>> drugs are starting to miss. Local enterprises have the know how to make >>> them but ?with ingredients that come exclusively from China and India. >>> Hospitals have been afraid of losing 25% to 40% of their staff as nurses >>> often come from the bordering regions of France and Italy. Finally, these >>> countries have locked their borders but not for those professionals. This >>> does not solve the problem on the long term, of course as these countries >>> also need more medical staff. We hope that a growing awareness of the >>> importance (and respect and salary) due to these professions will finally >>> have the necessary impact. At 9 p.m., everybody goes at the window or >>> balcony to give them a clap (or ring bells or even play music) for a minute >>> to thank all the medical staff and other professions (e.g., cleaners) who >>> likewise take enormous risks and make great efforts. >>> >>> The number of beds in the hospitals has been seriously increased by >>> creative means. The ultraliberal policy of the last decade had seriously >>> cut down the number of beds in hospital and sent many many patients to >>> private practice and ambulatory treatment. But the government, when >>> declaring confinement, has also declared that medical practitioners should >>> only do online treatment and should close their practice. Result: 3 weeks >>> later medical authorities are very worried: many patients in serious >>> conditions or with severe chronic diseases don?t dare to call their medical >>> practitioner and are afraid to go to the emergency services in hospital >>> (fear of overloading them, fear of infection by Covid and fear of being cut >>> out from their families (not allowed in the hospital). The pronostic is a >>> possible wave of very serious cases needing urgent and heavy treatment. >>> This wave will put extra-pressure on the sanitary system already >>> overburden. Meanwhile small medical units are close to bankruptcy : their >>> have to pay the salaries of their staff but have no income to do so. >>> >>> There is also a (still small) growing concern among social scientists >>> that the teams that reflect on the pandemic and the confinement measures >>> (and the planning of the end of the confinement) are made up of exclusively >>> of epidemiologists and economists (with one or two specialists in ethics). >>> Hence the psychic and social problems of the confined population are >>> probably underestimated. >>> Little is known of the underprivileged part of the population, now >>> unemployed, in small housing, with little outreach. Schooling has gone >>> online in a fortnight (with absolutely no preparation) but many students >>> don?t have connections or share the unique computer of the household with >>> parents and siblings all supposedly on line. >>> >>> This is only a few elements that characterise the situation. In >>> parallel, many citizens are becoming increasingly aware of the dangers of >>> the total interdependence of the economy and of the ecological disasters >>> that this creates. Sanitary disasters and ecological disasters are much >>> more interrelated than expected (a very nice book to understand that >>> biological processes and ways of life social life are interdependent: Rob >>> Dunn *"Never home alone. **From Microbes to Millipedes, Camel Crickets, >>> and Honeybees, the Natural History of Where We Live"*). >>> >>> There are also plenty of many nice examples of solidarity, creativity, >>> etc. They need to converge and be made visible. >>> >>> We (MAPS in University of Neuch?tel) are engaging in a large inquiry >>> based on Bruno Latour?s call (March 29, 2020): "A little exercise to >>> make sure that, after the virus crisis, things don?t start again as they >>> were before" (see http://www.bruno-latour.fr/node/852.html with already >>> versions in English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Polish, German, Dutch). >>> >>> Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont >>> >>> >>> >>> Prof. em. Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont >>> Institut de psychologie et ?ducation Facult? des lettres et sciences >>> humaines >>> Universit? de Neuch?tel >>> Espace Tilo-Frey 1 >>> >>> (Anciennement: Espace Louis-Agassiz 1) >>> >>> CH- 2000 Neuch?tel (Suisse >>> >>> ) >>> http://www.unine.ch/ipe/publications/anne_nelly_perret_clermont >>> >>> Last publications: >>> Perret-Clermont, A.-N., Sch?r, R., Greco, S., Convertini, J., >>> Iannaccone, A., & Rocci, A. (2019). Shifting from a monological to a >>> dialogical perspective on children?s argumentation. Lessons learned. In F. >>> H. van Eemren & B. Garssen (Eds.), *Argumentation in actual practice. >>> Topical studies about argumentative discourse in context* (pp. >>> 211-236): John Benjamins Publishing Company. *Version ?lectronique >>> *Iannaccone, A., Perret-Clermont, >>> A.-N., & Convertini, J. (2019). Children as investigators of Brunerian >>> ?Possible worlds?. The role of narrative scenarios in children?s >>> argumentative thinking. . Integrative Psychological and Behiavioral >>> Science, 53, 679-693. *Version ?lectronique >>> * >>> >>> Perret-Clermont, A.-N., Perret, J.-F., Pochon, L.-O., & Marro, P. >>> (2019). Hommage ? Jacques Perriault. Hermes, La Revue, 3, 226-226. >>> >>> In J.-P. Fragni?re (Ed.), Agir et penser avec Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont >>> (pp. 71-107). Lausanne: Editions Socialinfo >>> https://www.socialinfo.ch/les-livres/38-agir-et-penser-avec-anne-nelly-perret-clermont.html >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >> Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a >> landslide. Roy D'Andrade >> --------------------------------------------------- >> For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other >> members of LCHC, visit >> lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the >> research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. >> >> >> > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > -- Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a landslide. Roy D'Andrade --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200411/b3e640b5/attachment.html From peg.griffin@att.net Sat Apr 11 10:04:20 2020 From: peg.griffin@att.net (peg.griffin) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 13:04:20 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <30bcku9nm2-1@m0151357.ppops.net> FYI (or Bruce's) I am still missing Beth Ferholt's post that has been referred to a few times but that I missed getting.Sent -------- Original message --------From: mike cole Date: 4/11/20 12:53 PM (GMT-05:00) To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Thanks for pointing out the problem, Greg. Its a new one to me.I am ccing bruce jones to look into matters.The invitation from Bruno Latour is quite interesting. It seems worthwhile contributing?to and for sure knowing?about.mike(and apologies?to Anne-Nelly for my too-late-in-the-day senior moment!)On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 9:38 AM Greg Thompson wrote:Two things.?1. The Listserve is acting misogynistic - I didn't see Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont's?OR Annalie PIstorus' original messages to the list, I only saw their comments below the male responses to their?comments (Mike's to Anne-Nelly and Ulvi's to Annalie). Maybe the code of the listserve is actually literally structurally biased against women's voices? (I'm half-joking but I'm totally serious about not seeing their original posts).2. The link that Anne-Nelly sent was to a Bruno Latour paper (link below) that included the challenge to think about what things we can give up or change when life goes back to "normal" so that we aren't still in the same mess that we were before. I wonder if folks on this list might be interested in having a go at the exercise??I'm also curious if Anne-Nelly might be willing to share the thinking that her group has done on this??Here is the list of questions:Let us take advantage of the forced suspension of most activities to take stock of those we would like to see discontinued and those, on the contrary, that we would like to see developed.I suggest that readers try to answer this short questionnaire for themselves. It will be especially useful as it will be based on a personal experience that has been directly lived. This exercise is not a question of expressing an opinion but of describing your situation and may be investigating. It is only later, if one were to give oneself the means of compiling the answers of many respondents and then composing the landscape created by their intersections, that one could find a form of political expression - but this time embodied and situated in a concrete world.Answer the following questions first individually and then if possible with others:Question 1: What are the activities now suspended that you would like to see not resumed?Question 2: Describe why you think this activity is harmful/ superfluous/ dangerous/inconsistent and how its disappearance/suspension/substitution would make the activities you favor easier/ more consistent. (Make a separate paragraph for each of the activities listed in question 1).Question 3: What measures do you recommend to ensure that the workers/employees/agents/entrepreneurs who will no longer be able to continue in the activities you are removing are helped in their transition toward other activities.Question 4: Which of the now suspended activities would you like to develop/resume or even create from scratch?Question 5: Describe why this activity seems positive to you and how it makes it easier/ more harmonious/ consistent with other activities that you favor and helps to combat those that you consider unfavorable. (Make a separate paragraph for each of the activities listed in question 4).Question 6: What measures do you recommend to help workers/ employees/ agents/ entrepreneurs acquire the capacities/ means/ income/ instruments to take over/ develop/ create this favored activity.Now, find a way to compare your descriptions with those of other participants. Compiling and then superimposing the answers should gradually produce a landscape made of lines of conflict, alliances, controversy and opposition. This terrain may provide a concrete opportunity for creating the forms of political expression these activities require.Here are links to the paper in 6 different languages:?http://www.bruno-latour.fr/node/852.htmlCheers,Greg?On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 9:51 PM mike cole wrote:Hi Anna-Lisa. What you describe has great similarities what people in the US are experiencing with the exception that it is now clear for all to see that it is poverty, or the security of the vulnerable (same thing in my view).Thanks very much for the Latium letter.? It is totally relevant right now.MikeOn Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 9:38 AM PERRET-CLERMONT Anne-Nelly wrote: Hello everybody! Thank you so much for all the news and perspectives that are being shared from all over the Planet. Such difficult times, especially for those who can?t even send news... Some news from Switzerland, a privileged country, yet with very serious contamination rates. Almost 4 weeks of confinement (rights to go out are very limited and only a limited number of professions are still working) that totally re-organize our private and public life.? The sun is shining wonderfully and it is very tempting ?to move out for this Easter holiday. Nevertheless, most people are very disciplined and stay home in confinement. It took a lot of time for the local, cantonal and federal authorities to decide on the confinement measures. Switzerland?s political traditions impose ?bottom-up decisions. But the result of this (too slow?) process seems to be that most people agree and comply with this policy. Police forces try to do education and not ?repression. But the peak of the tide of contamination has not been reached yet and hospitals are under stress. The economic stress due to this long shut down arises a lot of fear on the side of trade unions and employers associations. Switzerland has very large multinational companies, but 90% of its firms are small or medium size business. Quite a number of them are now reaching the edge of ?bankruptcy. If they should go bankrup,t this would totally disorganise the country, its daily style of life and more: small firms and their locations impact regional demography, resources, power (in a federation of cantons), etc. ?after compulsory education, 60% of the young people attend dual education (i.e. half time in firms and half-time in school) and if firms shut down this education will fall apart. Government, banks and networks of citizens are lending money and trying to maintain these small firms alive. Unemployment rate is raising but rents have to be paid. Etc?? Switzerland is a country of pharmaceutical industry and engineers. But the panic in the hospitals is not over: equipment is insufficient, and drugs are starting to miss. Local enterprises have the know how to make them but ?with ingredients that come exclusively from China and India. Hospitals have been afraid of losing 25% to 40% of their staff as nurses often come from the bordering regions of France and Italy. Finally, these countries have locked their borders but not for those professionals. This does not solve the problem on the long term, of course as these countries also need more medical staff. We hope that a growing awareness of the importance (and respect and salary) due to these professions will finally have the necessary impact. At 9 p.m., everybody goes at the window or balcony to give them a clap (or ring bells or even play music) for a minute to thank all the medical staff and other professions (e.g., cleaners) who likewise take enormous risks and make great efforts. The number of beds in the hospitals has been seriously increased by creative means. The ultraliberal policy of the last decade had seriously cut down the number of beds in hospital and sent many many patients ?to private practice and ambulatory treatment. But the government, when declaring confinement, has also declared that medical practitioners should only do online treatment and should close their practice. Result: 3 weeks later medical authorities are very worried: many patients in serious conditions or with severe chronic diseases don?t dare to call their medical practitioner and are afraid to go to the emergency services in hospital (fear of overloading them, fear of infection by Covid and fear of being cut out from their families (not allowed in the hospital). The pronostic is a possible wave of very serious cases needing urgent and heavy ?treatment. This wave will put extra-pressure on the sanitary system already overburden. Meanwhile small medical units are close to bankruptcy : their have to pay the salaries of their staff but have no income to do so. There is also a (still small) growing concern among social scientists that the teams that reflect on the pandemic and the confinement measures (and the planning of the end of the confinement) are made up of exclusively of epidemiologists and economists (with one or two specialists in ethics). Hence the psychic and social problems of the confined population are probably underestimated.? Little is known of the underprivileged part of the population, now unemployed, in small housing, with little outreach. Schooling has gone online in a fortnight (with absolutely no preparation) but many students don?t have connections or share the unique computer of the household with parents and siblings all supposedly on line. This is only a few elements that characterise the situation. In parallel, many citizens are becoming increasingly aware of the dangers of the total interdependence of the economy and of the ecological disasters that this creates. Sanitary disasters and ecological disasters are much more interrelated than expected (a very nice book to understand that biological processes and ways of life social life are interdependent: Rob Dunn "Never home alone.?From Microbes to Millipedes, Camel Crickets, and Honeybees, the Natural History of Where We Live"). There are also plenty of?many nice examples of solidarity, creativity, etc. They need to?converge and be made visible.? We (MAPS in University of Neuch?tel) ?are engaging in a large inquiry based on Bruno Latour?s call (March 29, 2020): "A little exercise to make sure that, after the virus crisis, things don?t start again as they were before" (see?http://www.bruno-latour.fr/node/852.html?with already versions in English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Polish, German, Dutch). Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont Prof. em. Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont Institut de psychologie et ?ducation Facult? des lettres et sciences humaines Universit? de Neuch?tel Espace Tilo-Frey 1 (Anciennement: Espace Louis-Agassiz 1) CH- 2000 Neuch?tel (Suisse) http://www.unine.ch/ipe/publications/anne_nelly_perret_clermont Last publications: Perret-Clermont, A.-N., Sch?r, R., Greco, S., Convertini, J., Iannaccone, A., & Rocci, A. (2019). Shifting from a monological to a dialogical perspective on children?s argumentation. Lessons learned. In F. H. van Eemren & B. Garssen (Eds.), Argumentation in actual practice. Topical studies about argumentative discourse in context (pp. 211-236): John Benjamins Publishing Company. Version ?lectronique?Iannaccone, A., Perret-Clermont, A.-N., & Convertini, J. (2019). Children as investigators of Brunerian ?Possible worlds?. The role of narrative scenarios in children?s argumentative thinking. . Integrative Psychological and Behiavioral Science, 53, 679-693.?Version ?lectronique Perret-Clermont, A.-N., Perret, J.-F., Pochon, L.-O., & Marro, P. (2019). Hommage ? Jacques Perriault. Hermes, La Revue, 3, 226-226. In J.-P. Fragni?re (Ed.), Agir et penser avec Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont (pp. 71-107). Lausanne: Editions Socialinfo?https://www.socialinfo.ch/les-livres/38-agir-et-penser-avec-anne-nelly-perret-clermont.html -- Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a landslide. Roy D'Andrade?---------------------------------------------------For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visitlchc.ucsd.edu.? For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.Assistant ProfessorDepartment of Anthropology880 Spencer W. Kimball TowerBrigham Young UniversityProvo, UT 84602WEBSITE:?https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson?http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson -- Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a landslide. Roy D'Andrade?---------------------------------------------------For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visitlchc.ucsd.edu.? For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200411/feb1d726/attachment.html From mcole@ucsd.edu Sat Apr 11 10:30:59 2020 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 10:30:59 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: <30bcku9nm2-1@m0151357.ppops.net> References: <30bcku9nm2-1@m0151357.ppops.net> Message-ID: Peg/Greg/ et al UCSD has farmed out internet security and internal organization of internet connectivity for security reasons. This outsourcing has caused massive local problems, one of which is that some email cannot get through. Bruce is working on it, but its the weekend. mike On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 10:06 AM peg.griffin wrote: > FYI (or Bruce's) I am still missing Beth Ferholt's post that has been > referred to a few times but that I missed getting. > > > > Sent > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: mike cole > Date: 4/11/20 12:53 PM (GMT-05:00) > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? > > Thanks for pointing out the problem, Greg. Its a new one to me. > I am ccing bruce jones to look into matters. > > The invitation from Bruno Latour is quite interesting. It seems worthwhile > contributing to and for sure knowing > about. > mike > (and apologies to Anne-Nelly for my too-late-in-the-day senior moment!) > > On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 9:38 AM Greg Thompson > wrote: > >> Two things. >> >> 1. The Listserve is acting misogynistic - I didn't see Anne-Nelly >> Perret-Clermont's OR Annalie PIstorus' original messages to the list, I >> only saw their comments below the male responses to their comments (Mike's >> to Anne-Nelly and Ulvi's to Annalie). Maybe the code of the listserve is >> actually literally structurally biased against women's voices? (I'm >> half-joking but I'm totally serious about not seeing their original posts). >> >> 2. The link that Anne-Nelly sent was to a Bruno Latour paper (link below) >> that included the challenge to think about what things we can give up or >> change when life goes back to "normal" so that we aren't still in the same >> mess that we were before. I wonder if folks on this list might be >> interested in having a go at the exercise? >> I'm also curious if Anne-Nelly might be willing to share the thinking >> that her group has done on this? >> >> Here is the list of questions: >> Let us take advantage of the forced suspension of most activities to take >> stock of those we would like to see discontinued and those, on the >> contrary, that we would like to see developed. >> I suggest that readers try to answer this short questionnaire for >> themselves. It will be especially useful as it will be based on a personal >> experience that has been directly lived. This exercise is not a question of >> expressing an opinion but of describing your situation and may be >> investigating. It is only later, if one were to give oneself the means of >> compiling the answers of many respondents and then composing the landscape >> created by their intersections, that one could find a form of political >> expression - but this time embodied and situated in a concrete world. >> Answer the following questions first individually and then if possible >> with others: >> Question 1: What are the activities now suspended that you would like to >> see not resumed? >> Question 2: Describe why you think this activity is harmful/ superfluous/ >> dangerous/inconsistent and how its disappearance/suspension/substitution >> would make the activities you favor easier/ more consistent. (Make a >> separate paragraph for each of the activities listed in question 1). >> Question 3: What measures do you recommend to ensure that the >> workers/employees/agents/entrepreneurs who will no longer be able to >> continue in the activities you are removing are helped in their transition >> toward other activities. >> Question 4: Which of the now suspended activities would you like to >> develop/resume or even create from scratch? >> Question 5: Describe why this activity seems positive to you and how it >> makes it easier/ more harmonious/ consistent with other activities that you >> favor and helps to combat those that you consider unfavorable. (Make a >> separate paragraph for each of the activities listed in question 4). >> Question 6: What measures do you recommend to help workers/ employees/ >> agents/ entrepreneurs acquire the capacities/ means/ income/ instruments to >> take over/ develop/ create this favored activity. >> Now, find a way to compare your descriptions with those of other >> participants. Compiling and then superimposing the answers should gradually >> produce a landscape made of lines of conflict, alliances, controversy and >> opposition. This terrain may provide a concrete opportunity for creating >> the forms of political expression these activities require. >> >> Here are links to the paper in 6 different languages: >> http://www.bruno-latour.fr/node/852.html >> >> Cheers, >> Greg >> >> >> >> On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 9:51 PM mike cole wrote: >> >>> Hi Anna-Lisa. What you describe has great similarities what people in >>> the US are experiencing with the exception that it is now clear for all to >>> see that it is poverty, or the security of the vulnerable (same thing in my >>> view). >>> >>> Thanks very much for the Latium letter. It is totally relevant right >>> now. >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 9:38 AM PERRET-CLERMONT Anne-Nelly < >>> Anne-Nelly.Perret-Clermont@unine.ch> wrote: >>> >>>> Hello everybody! >>>> >>>> Thank you so much for all the news and perspectives that are being >>>> shared from all over the Planet. Such difficult times, especially for those >>>> who can?t even send news... >>>> >>>> Some news from Switzerland, a privileged country, yet with very serious >>>> contamination rates. Almost 4 weeks of confinement (rights to go out are >>>> very limited and only a limited number of professions are still working) >>>> that totally re-organize our private and public life. >>>> >>>> The sun is shining wonderfully and it is very tempting to move out for >>>> this Easter holiday. Nevertheless, most people are very disciplined and >>>> stay home in confinement. >>>> It took a lot of time for the local, cantonal and federal authorities >>>> to decide on the confinement measures. Switzerland?s political traditions >>>> impose bottom-up decisions. But the result of this (too slow?) process >>>> seems to be that most people agree and comply with this policy. Police >>>> forces try to do education and not repression. But the peak of the tide of >>>> contamination has not been reached yet and hospitals are under stress. >>>> >>>> The economic stress due to this long shut down arises a lot of fear on >>>> the side of trade unions and employers associations. Switzerland has very >>>> large multinational companies, but 90% of its firms are small or medium >>>> size business. Quite a number of them are now reaching the edge of >>>> bankruptcy. If they should go bankrup,t this would totally disorganise the >>>> country, its daily style of life and more: small firms and their locations >>>> impact regional demography, resources, power (in a federation of cantons), >>>> etc. after compulsory education, 60% of the young people attend dual >>>> education (i.e. half time in firms and half-time in school) and if firms >>>> shut down this education will fall apart. Government, banks and networks of >>>> citizens are lending money and trying to maintain these small firms alive. >>>> Unemployment rate is raising but rents have to be paid. Etc? >>>> >>>> Switzerland is a country of pharmaceutical industry and engineers. But >>>> the panic in the hospitals is not over: equipment is insufficient, and >>>> drugs are starting to miss. Local enterprises have the know how to make >>>> them but ?with ingredients that come exclusively from China and India. >>>> Hospitals have been afraid of losing 25% to 40% of their staff as nurses >>>> often come from the bordering regions of France and Italy. Finally, these >>>> countries have locked their borders but not for those professionals. This >>>> does not solve the problem on the long term, of course as these countries >>>> also need more medical staff. We hope that a growing awareness of the >>>> importance (and respect and salary) due to these professions will finally >>>> have the necessary impact. At 9 p.m., everybody goes at the window or >>>> balcony to give them a clap (or ring bells or even play music) for a minute >>>> to thank all the medical staff and other professions (e.g., cleaners) who >>>> likewise take enormous risks and make great efforts. >>>> >>>> The number of beds in the hospitals has been seriously increased by >>>> creative means. The ultraliberal policy of the last decade had seriously >>>> cut down the number of beds in hospital and sent many many patients to >>>> private practice and ambulatory treatment. But the government, when >>>> declaring confinement, has also declared that medical practitioners should >>>> only do online treatment and should close their practice. Result: 3 weeks >>>> later medical authorities are very worried: many patients in serious >>>> conditions or with severe chronic diseases don?t dare to call their medical >>>> practitioner and are afraid to go to the emergency services in hospital >>>> (fear of overloading them, fear of infection by Covid and fear of being cut >>>> out from their families (not allowed in the hospital). The pronostic is a >>>> possible wave of very serious cases needing urgent and heavy treatment. >>>> This wave will put extra-pressure on the sanitary system already >>>> overburden. Meanwhile small medical units are close to bankruptcy : their >>>> have to pay the salaries of their staff but have no income to do so. >>>> >>>> There is also a (still small) growing concern among social scientists >>>> that the teams that reflect on the pandemic and the confinement measures >>>> (and the planning of the end of the confinement) are made up of exclusively >>>> of epidemiologists and economists (with one or two specialists in ethics). >>>> Hence the psychic and social problems of the confined population are >>>> probably underestimated. >>>> Little is known of the underprivileged part of the population, now >>>> unemployed, in small housing, with little outreach. Schooling has gone >>>> online in a fortnight (with absolutely no preparation) but many students >>>> don?t have connections or share the unique computer of the household with >>>> parents and siblings all supposedly on line. >>>> >>>> This is only a few elements that characterise the situation. In >>>> parallel, many citizens are becoming increasingly aware of the dangers of >>>> the total interdependence of the economy and of the ecological disasters >>>> that this creates. Sanitary disasters and ecological disasters are much >>>> more interrelated than expected (a very nice book to understand that >>>> biological processes and ways of life social life are interdependent: Rob >>>> Dunn *"Never home alone. **From Microbes to Millipedes, Camel >>>> Crickets, and Honeybees, the Natural History of Where We Live"*). >>>> >>>> There are also plenty of many nice examples of solidarity, creativity, >>>> etc. They need to converge and be made visible. >>>> >>>> We (MAPS in University of Neuch?tel) are engaging in a large inquiry >>>> based on Bruno Latour?s call (March 29, 2020): "A little exercise to >>>> make sure that, after the virus crisis, things don?t start again as they >>>> were before" (see http://www.bruno-latour.fr/node/852.html with >>>> already versions in English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Polish, German, >>>> Dutch). >>>> >>>> Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Prof. em. Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont >>>> Institut de psychologie et ?ducation Facult? des lettres et sciences >>>> humaines >>>> Universit? de Neuch?tel >>>> Espace Tilo-Frey 1 >>>> >>>> (Anciennement: Espace Louis-Agassiz 1) >>>> >>>> CH- 2000 Neuch?tel (Suisse >>>> >>>> ) >>>> http://www.unine.ch/ipe/publications/anne_nelly_perret_clermont >>>> >>>> Last publications: >>>> Perret-Clermont, A.-N., Sch?r, R., Greco, S., Convertini, J., >>>> Iannaccone, A., & Rocci, A. (2019). Shifting from a monological to a >>>> dialogical perspective on children?s argumentation. Lessons learned. In F. >>>> H. van Eemren & B. Garssen (Eds.), *Argumentation in actual practice. >>>> Topical studies about argumentative discourse in context* (pp. >>>> 211-236): John Benjamins Publishing Company. *Version ?lectronique >>>> *Iannaccone, A., Perret-Clermont, >>>> A.-N., & Convertini, J. (2019). Children as investigators of Brunerian >>>> ?Possible worlds?. The role of narrative scenarios in children?s >>>> argumentative thinking. . Integrative Psychological and Behiavioral >>>> Science, 53, 679-693. *Version ?lectronique >>>> * >>>> >>>> Perret-Clermont, A.-N., Perret, J.-F., Pochon, L.-O., & Marro, P. >>>> (2019). Hommage ? Jacques Perriault. Hermes, La Revue, 3, 226-226. >>>> >>>> In J.-P. Fragni?re (Ed.), Agir et penser avec Anne-Nelly >>>> Perret-Clermont (pp. 71-107). Lausanne: Editions Socialinfo >>>> https://www.socialinfo.ch/les-livres/38-agir-et-penser-avec-anne-nelly-perret-clermont.html >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>> Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in >>> a landslide. Roy D'Andrade >>> --------------------------------------------------- >>> For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other >>> members of LCHC, visit >>> lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the >>> research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >> Assistant Professor >> Department of Anthropology >> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >> Brigham Young University >> Provo, UT 84602 >> WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson >> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >> > > > -- > Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a > landslide. Roy D'Andrade > --------------------------------------------------- > For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other > members of LCHC, visit > lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the > research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. > > > -- Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a landslide. Roy D'Andrade --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200411/f374db56/attachment.html From feine@duq.edu Sat Apr 11 10:56:29 2020 From: feine@duq.edu (Dr. Elizabeth Fein) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 17:56:29 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] General check-in Message-ID: Hello Annalie - I am thinking about this question a lot also: "how we can change psychotherapies to be social and revolutionary so that patients can insist that people in their worlds change with them?" Many of the graduate students that I supervise on their psychotherapy cases feel an ongoing pull in this direction, and we talk and write about it often, but it often feels hard to get traction around instantiating it in our work, even as the in-house clinic within our department is very flexible and open to many different explorations. I am listening with you. Elizabeth On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 10:01 AM Annalie Pistorius > wrote: Hi im still here with you. Sitting together is something to do. Our university had shut down before the lockdown here in South Africa ? our students and SRC being medical students have taken charge the way they usually do. I must say they always impress me, how they can manoeuvre all staff when there is a leadership crisis. However now with the Corona world crisis, I am impressed how everyone here including our leaders stand firm and together, herding us and being giving to poor communities. I watch BBC world news almost every day, and was impressed to see that even in Cape Town our gang members have started using their leadership to organise and direct the handing out of food parcels to their community members. Of cause, not everyone is seeing all of this as positive as I am painting it here. I am reminded of the bitter sweetness of the situation, by my patient (with whom I am doing psychotherapy sessions on my cell phone at a very high cost, don?t ask me why not on internet), that his problem of stress, headaches and severe depression is dissolving because he is not at work. No-one shouting into his ears, the voices of critique fading?Now what should be done so that when he goes back his problem continues to dissolve? Is this our moment to build onto? ? how we can change psychotherapies to be social and revolutionary so that patients can insist that people in their worlds change with them? That?s why I am here listening. Greetings Annalie From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > On Behalf Of Alfredo Jornet Gil Sent: Saturday, 11 April 2020 10:58 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? The list of xmca members is indeed long! Here is a link to the list: http://lchc-resources.org/xmca/subscriber_list.php Alfredo From: > on behalf of Helena Worthen > Reply to: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Date: Friday, 10 April 2020 at 22:11 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? This is a gracefully written New Yorker-worthy piece of dark dystopian fiction. I would like to start up the whole Utopia discussion again, which I never felt clamped its teeth down hard enough.Thanks, David. I am seeing responses from David Kellogg, Peg Griffin, Mike Cole, Greg Thompson, Rein Raud in Estonia, David Kirshner, Ed Wall, Henry Shoner, Andy Blunden, Martin Packer in Bogota, Richard Beach ? who did I miss? There are more of us out there. I worry about Haydi in Iran. I am swamped with Zoom, telephone and email. Rather than clog up this list I?ll re-visit my blog (below) just in case anyone reads it ? this is with regards to the price of vegetables, David Kellogg. Other than that: the book about contingency goes back through 4 past transitions in higher education: standardization (Carnegie, SATs etc); expansion (the GI bill); the Movement era (civil rights, 1968, etc) and then the neoliberal contraction, for which the explosion of contingency (no job security/no academic freedom, crap wages) was a solution to a set of interlocking administrative problems. WE then go into a lot of detail about what organizing unions for faculty and campus workers in higher education is like. Thanks for asking, David. I?m doing Zoom piano lessons for grandchildren, in hopes that they will come out of this with at least one skill that is useful to humanity. Also working with DSA (Democratic Socialists of America) to lead reading groups about the recent wave of teacher strikes. Still owe Andy a review of his Hegel book; thanks for uploading the difference between Hegel and Marx paper, Andy. There are still some more xmca-ers out there that haven't checked in. Helena Worthen 21 San MAteo Road, Berkeley 94707 510-828-2745 helenaworthen.wordpress.com On Apr 10, 2020, at 12:39 PM, mike cole > wrote: The new samizdat, David? mike On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 10:31 AM David H Kirshner > wrote: Here?s a fictional reminder of what more may be at stake in the current political era. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/04/06/love-letter David From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > On Behalf Of Peg Griffin, Ph.D. Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 11:55 AM To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Henry, Only thing I know for sure about any bill is this: If it doesn?t serve well the top 1%, then McConnell won?t have it come to the floor for a vote in the Senate, so many reasonably good bills are never enacted and no Senator or President need be held accountable about their opposition. But, what I know about intersectional groups in the past few years is that we have to reach out in any and all ways possible to be sure we do not step on each other?s messages, actions, and needs, and to be sure we have ways of getting and giving timely support as allies. It sounds wimpy for a bumper sticker, but I wish I had one that said ?Protect Fragile Solidarity!? I think we may be inching in that awkward direction though: SPLC has normalized the bumper sticker, ?Restore the Vote.? Peg From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 12:05 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Peg, I really don?t know anymore about life on the Rez now than what I read on line, what I have heard on Native America Calling on our local public radio station KUNM and what I hear from my Navajo Family near Shiprock. So far, no one in my family there is sick. I have no insider information that might help pull the right strings in DC. Deb Haaland sends out regular bulletins describing what she is doing to benefit all New Mexicans, no specific mention of what?s happening on the Navajo. You know more about the bills than I do! Henry On Apr 9, 2020, at 2:36 PM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. > wrote: Henry, may I ask you to discuss Co-Vid 19 in the Navajo Nation? From news reports the Nation seems to be proactive, trying new and old ways of proceeding. But, in comparison to nearby states, more and deeper problems faced with fewer and less stable resources? DC got robbed in the second bailout bill ? way underfunded. Plans are getting formed and deformed about pushing for fixes in the next bill (now in messes in both House and Senate). Do you know if there are any Navajo plans that DC folk can support, maybe learn from (or at least stop from inadvertently stepping on?) Is staff in Deb Haaland?s office in the HOB a good place to try to find out or ?? A good fantasy about November, Henry. Somehow, it reminds me of the early days in the Fifth Dimension. The children engaged in transformational journeys, taking their avatars through rooms in a table top maze, choosing which of several openings they would use as entry and eventual exit, choosing which of different tasks in the room to do (harder tasks coupled with more choice over which exits from room they could use), collaborating with peers and lovely Big Sisters and Brothers, and there was always the Wizard ?guardian or trickster or sometimes asleep at the wheel. At an exit, avatars transformed and children went to the creature store to pick the token of the transformation to travel with if they chose to enter the 5th D again. But there was also a different world with university and public school calendars and rites of passage. At times for seams important to that world, the children got shirts screen-printed with words ranging from ?I conquered the 5thdimension? ?I barely survived the 5th Dimension? ?I almost survived the 5th Dimension? and so on ?I?m in the middle? ?I?m just starting?? A child reviewed the prior period of time, negotiating which words would be on their shirt. (Of all the weird things in the 5th D, Mike laughs best about the carefully differentiated shirts.) So, how about you and I in the here(s) and now(s)? We make choice after choice after choice and work hard at enough to transform the current elected officials to try to choose better creatures as we exit this iteration of a government and enter again for choices and tasks in the next iteration. Concurrently, we have to keep our eye on the prize of the CoVid 19 pandemic world and survival in it. BTW, I do live inside the Beltway ? 12 blocks north and east of Union Station. The museums, the food, and the HOBs (House Office Buildings) ? as well as the SOBs across the capitol park ? all nearby, familiar sites of camaraderie for efforts, some successful and some not so much. Peg From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 7:52 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? I was born at Mercy Hospital in Washington DC. Do you actually live inside the Beltway? Great museums there and food. Scads of family from both Judy?s and my side. One of the last times I visited there, I went to Michelle?s office: She was our representative at the time. She gets around. I have this fantasy brought on by the pandemic and New Mexico?s Blue (Democratic) sweep in 2018 that brought us three kick-ass women: Governor Michelle...Representative Deborah Halland for Albuquerque and surrounds where we live (I canvassed for her in the primary!)?and Representative Xochi Small to the south. All Democrats. The fantasy is that these historic times, this perizhvanie, this Lev budding, will bear fruit in November that gets us through another narrow place. And we will celebrate. Fitting that Passover is tonight, a celebration of liberation from slavery, and a time when we recognize that we are all really strangers, wherever we live. Yikes! Talk about Biblical dialect! It?s as catching as that Corona bug! Must stay well Henry On Apr 8, 2020, at 4:27 PM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. > wrote: I live in Washington, DC, Henry, but my roots here are by way of LCHC in San Diego which begot xlchc which begot xmca. Don?t know why I switched into a biblical dialect, but not hallucinations, just whimsy. And a little tired this evening. Did you notice how my motif in my last post turned unto motive when I sent it? I think it was Leonti?ev sneaking in. The description of your mask seems dashing! Could Judy have alternative (or ulterior) motive (or motif)? Hmmm, just recognized the 5th Dimension wanting into the lineage recital. Still no hallucination just a few sips of a nice Tuscan blend? Peg From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 5:14 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Hey Peg! Yes, I will tell Governor Michelle you?re rooting for her from where you and yours are at! Please forgive my senior moment, but where do YOU live? My wife Judy figured out how to make a mask from a bandana and two hair ties. Like I?m ready to rob the stage coach, full of ppe (personal protective equipment).:) I saw a cartoon of Trump and his underlings at one of his you-can?t-make-it-up briefings. They are wearing masks that cover nose and mouth. Trump has a Lone Ranger mask. Here?s a link for those short on Americana: https://www.pinterest.com/robertharmon311/lone-ranger-mask-patterns-for-save-ranger-challeng/ Stay safe and well! Henry On Apr 8, 2020, at 11:27 AM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. > wrote: Henry, please tell your governor/friend, Michelle Lujan Grisham, ?We see her, we hear her, we love her, and we know we need her.? Groups here that made good use of allies before the pandemic are making good, well-planned use of us now, especially for those in the shadows, by necessity or oversight, to address basic food and medical insecurity. And thank you, too, Henry and others on xmca. Relatively healthy (AKA no Co-vid19 that we know of and well masked ? my favorite right now is an easily washed and bleached homemade one with a blue lamb motive ? anyone need a pdf for making adult or child masks, with or without hepa-filters?) and safe, Peg From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 12:48 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Hi All, Like Greg, I was struck by Andy?s sense that China may go back to ?normal? but the neo-liberal ?first" world is and will be experiencing a profound perizhvanie. You?d hope it will be for the good. In the U.S,, generally, rates of infection are positively correlated with density of population. For example, I live in New Mexico, the fifth largest state in the U.S. with a population of a little over a one million and the lowest rate of infection?so far. However, our Navajo live spread out to the west and north of us, but have very high rates of infection. Little Zia Pueblo, just an our by car to the north and west of us, only has about a thousand people, with eleven confirmed cases. Poverty. In the country as a whole people of color have relatively higher rates of infection. Poverty. Our governor, Michelle Lujan Grisham (who I am proud to say is a good friend), has been successful in pushing baci against Trump?s efforts to punish states that did not vote for him by being less than cooperative in providing resources against the pandemic. She has been using her bully pulpit against Trump's bloviating. His hot air has got to be an infectious agent. Most of us are using masks in public, evidence indicating that it protects OTHERS by wearing them. Trump prefers NOT to wear a mask. Consistent with his politics. You can?t make this up. Be well, Henry On Apr 8, 2020, at 9:00 AM, Greg Thompson > wrote: David, I wonder if you could say more about your experience of the state-based "surveillance" in SK. There are lots of different groups in the U.S., both on the left and the right, who are up in arms about the "tracking" of citizens via credit card and cell phone usage. And it sounds like this is a global concern as Mary's report from SA suggests. Also how interesting how similar the conspiracy theories are around the globe (globalization and the spread of viral ideas?). That's world perezhivanie indeed! -greg On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 3:08 PM David Kellogg > wrote: Helena-- Situation in China, courtesy my sister-in-law: life in Beijing is pretty much back to normal at least on the face of it. People are going out to their work units (but there is more work from home than before the crisis). Classes still largely taught from ZOOM. My nephew is in Shanghai, where the situation is somewhat tighter (proximity to Wuhan). Wuhan opened up for real yesterday--people can leave (I lived there for two years in the mid-eighties, but I can barely recognize what I see on the news now....) I have students in Chengdu (who attend my class via ZOOM). People are mostly shopping on line with delivery to the gate of the housing unit rather than to their flat (as we do here in Korea). Air quality better than it's been in decades. Situation here in South Korea: We just extended our lockdown for another two weeks. This is in response to a few days of new infections over a hundred, but the infections are mostly (80%) Koreans from the US and Europe who want to live in a place where the medical system has not broken down or is not in the process of breaking down. There are still some "hotspots" of community transmission, but these are almost all connected with churches or PC cafes. Schools reopen on the 16th, but only online. We have elections in a week, and there is a lot of campaigning going on, including the usual street based campaigning (the right wing opposition campaigns around the curious notion that the government has done absolutely nothing, and the government ignores everybody who is not an actual virus). People shop in stores, and there is no panic buying or disruption of supply chains. The main changes in economic life seem to have to do with transport, and it seems like this too will be permanent (electric scooters are everywhere now). Bowing instead of shaking hands is really not a bad idea, and coffee-shops always were over-rated and over-priced.... But what about you, Helena? (One of the things I have learned on this list is that you get more or less what you give--people tend to use what you write as a model for writing back!) Are you still in Vietnam? Your address says Berkeley and your email says Illinois--those are three very different venues for the virus and the economy. Can you give us a brief account of the situation in each? Stay safe, wherever you are! David Kellogg Sangmyung University Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational action research in Mind Culture and Activity https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 Some free e-prints available at: https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 4:30 AM Martin Packer > wrote: Hi Helena, I share your concerns. And, despite its challenges, this situation seems a great opportunity to apply our distributed expertise(s). I tried to get some discussion going in a group concerned with the Anthropocene, but people seemed disinclined. Martin Here?s the first message that I sent? The current situation is producing important evidence about the probable consequences of the strategies proposed to mitigate climate change. Satellites are showing significant reductions in pollution: https://www.space.com/italy-coronavirus-outbreak-response-reduces-emissions-satellite-images.html Experts are suggesting that as a result the coronavirus may save more lives than it takes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2020/03/11/coronavirus-lockdown-may-save-more-lives-from-pollution-and-climate-than-from-virus/#4a39bb3c5764 So when skeptics ask ?How can you know that reducing air travel will help with climate change?? there is now clear evidence with which to answer them. Also in China: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/04/811019032/why-chinas-air-has-been-cleaner-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak At the same time, I am starting to wonder whether the current health guidelines regarding coronvirus are culturally biased. Can they work in ?collectivist? cultures (to use the shorthand)? The CDC guidelines, for example, include the recommendations to ?Stay home when you are sick,? but also that other members of the household should ?Avoid close contact with people who are sick? and should ?Choose a room in your home that can be used to separate sick household members from those who are healthy. Identify a separate bathroom for the sick person to use, if possible.? This advice is simply not practicable for many households in Colombia. There are not enough rooms; there is no second bathroom. In addition, many infants and young children here are cared for by grandparents, or even great-grandparents (many women here have a baby when young, so an infant may have a grandmother who is in her late 30s and a great-grandmother in her late 50s). The evidence shows that children don?t become very ill, but they do get infected and they can infect other people, among whom elderly caregivers will be the most at risk. So I don?t think social distance and auto-quarantine will work in Colombia. Consider what the Chinese did: they went door-to-door to identify infected family members and removed them to massive collective quarantine setttings. People in the West considered this to be draconian, even cruel. But it made sense: much more cross-infection occurred in Chinese homes than in places like restaurants. Unless the authorities can come up with strategies that are more appropriate to local circumstances and practices, there is likely to be a rapid and elevated peak of infections in Latin American countries. And I see there is a related point here, on ageism: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200313155256.htm On Apr 7, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Helena Worthen > wrote: Hello, XMCA-ers - I don?t remember ever having read that this list was going to shut down or even be allowed to fade away. So now I?m writing, as if in the dark, to the whole list. We?ve now got a major ? maybe ?the? major crisis of the anthropocene on our hands and the distant but connected network represented by the conversations on this list seem to me to be a treasure more precious than gold - and I?m not speaking metaphorically. I am concerned about some of the people who have been pillars and resources on his list, people whom I have reached out to over the years and heard back from with information and perspectives that I would never have been able to access on my own. Where are you now? What are you doing? Are you safe and healthy? Do you have information about friends who are unable to read or respond to this request? I hope to hear some responses to this message. Take care of yourselves, please ? Helena Helena Worthen hworthen@illinois.edu 21 San Mateo Road, Berkeley, CA 94707 -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson -- Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a landslide. Roy D'Andrade --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200411/1d6229a0/attachment-0001.html From a.j.gil@ils.uio.no Sat Apr 11 12:08:00 2020 From: a.j.gil@ils.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 19:08:00 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> Message-ID: About e-mails not coming, that?s interesting, Greg (specially given the record!). I did get both Anne-Nelly and Annalie?s e-mails originally sent. So, if it is a systematic thing in the server, it is also selective as to whom it targets! I hope Bruce can help here. Also, the exercise you propose via Anne-Nelly - Latour looks worth trying! I guess there is a broader platform to share the responses linked by Laour?s site? Alfredo From: on behalf of Greg Thompson Reply to: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Date: Saturday, 11 April 2020 at 18:40 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Two things. 1. The Listserve is acting misogynistic - I didn't see Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont's OR Annalie PIstorus' original messages to the list, I only saw their comments below the male responses to their comments (Mike's to Anne-Nelly and Ulvi's to Annalie). Maybe the code of the listserve is actually literally structurally biased against women's voices? (I'm half-joking but I'm totally serious about not seeing their original posts). 2. The link that Anne-Nelly sent was to a Bruno Latour paper (link below) that included the challenge to think about what things we can give up or change when life goes back to "normal" so that we aren't still in the same mess that we were before. I wonder if folks on this list might be interested in having a go at the exercise? I'm also curious if Anne-Nelly might be willing to share the thinking that her group has done on this? Here is the list of questions: Let us take advantage of the forced suspension of most activities to take stock of those we would like to see discontinued and those, on the contrary, that we would like to see developed. I suggest that readers try to answer this short questionnaire for themselves. It will be especially useful as it will be based on a personal experience that has been directly lived. This exercise is not a question of expressing an opinion but of describing your situation and may be investigating. It is only later, if one were to give oneself the means of compiling the answers of many respondents and then composing the landscape created by their intersections, that one could find a form of political expression - but this time embodied and situated in a concrete world. Answer the following questions first individually and then if possible with others: Question 1: What are the activities now suspended that you would like to see not resumed? Question 2: Describe why you think this activity is harmful/ superfluous/ dangerous/inconsistent and how its disappearance/suspension/substitution would make the activities you favor easier/ more consistent. (Make a separate paragraph for each of the activities listed in question 1). Question 3: What measures do you recommend to ensure that the workers/employees/agents/entrepreneurs who will no longer be able to continue in the activities you are removing are helped in their transition toward other activities. Question 4: Which of the now suspended activities would you like to develop/resume or even create from scratch? Question 5: Describe why this activity seems positive to you and how it makes it easier/ more harmonious/ consistent with other activities that you favor and helps to combat those that you consider unfavorable. (Make a separate paragraph for each of the activities listed in question 4). Question 6: What measures do you recommend to help workers/ employees/ agents/ entrepreneurs acquire the capacities/ means/ income/ instruments to take over/ develop/ create this favored activity. Now, find a way to compare your descriptions with those of other participants. Compiling and then superimposing the answers should gradually produce a landscape made of lines of conflict, alliances, controversy and opposition. This terrain may provide a concrete opportunity for creating the forms of political expression these activities require. Here are links to the paper in 6 different languages: http://www.bruno-latour.fr/node/852.html Cheers, Greg On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 9:51 PM mike cole > wrote: Hi Anna-Lisa. What you describe has great similarities what people in the US are experiencing with the exception that it is now clear for all to see that it is poverty, or the security of the vulnerable (same thing in my view). Thanks very much for the Latium letter. It is totally relevant right now. Mike On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 9:38 AM PERRET-CLERMONT Anne-Nelly > wrote: Hello everybody! Thank you so much for all the news and perspectives that are being shared from all over the Planet. Such difficult times, especially for those who can?t even send news... Some news from Switzerland, a privileged country, yet with very serious contamination rates. Almost 4 weeks of confinement (rights to go out are very limited and only a limited number of professions are still working) that totally re-organize our private and public life. The sun is shining wonderfully and it is very tempting to move out for this Easter holiday. Nevertheless, most people are very disciplined and stay home in confinement. It took a lot of time for the local, cantonal and federal authorities to decide on the confinement measures. Switzerland?s political traditions impose bottom-up decisions. But the result of this (too slow?) process seems to be that most people agree and comply with this policy. Police forces try to do education and not repression. But the peak of the tide of contamination has not been reached yet and hospitals are under stress. The economic stress due to this long shut down arises a lot of fear on the side of trade unions and employers associations. Switzerland has very large multinational companies, but 90% of its firms are small or medium size business. Quite a number of them are now reaching the edge of bankruptcy. If they should go bankrup,t this would totally disorganise the country, its daily style of life and more: small firms and their locations impact regional demography, resources, power (in a federation of cantons), etc. after compulsory education, 60% of the young people attend dual education (i.e. half time in firms and half-time in school) and if firms shut down this education will fall apart. Government, banks and networks of citizens are lending money and trying to maintain these small firms alive. Unemployment rate is raising but rents have to be paid. Etc? Switzerland is a country of pharmaceutical industry and engineers. But the panic in the hospitals is not over: equipment is insufficient, and drugs are starting to miss. Local enterprises have the know how to make them but ?with ingredients that come exclusively from China and India. Hospitals have been afraid of losing 25% to 40% of their staff as nurses often come from the bordering regions of France and Italy. Finally, these countries have locked their borders but not for those professionals. This does not solve the problem on the long term, of course as these countries also need more medical staff. We hope that a growing awareness of the importance (and respect and salary) due to these professions will finally have the necessary impact. At 9 p.m., everybody goes at the window or balcony to give them a clap (or ring bells or even play music) for a minute to thank all the medical staff and other professions (e.g., cleaners) who likewise take enormous risks and make great efforts. The number of beds in the hospitals has been seriously increased by creative means. The ultraliberal policy of the last decade had seriously cut down the number of beds in hospital and sent many many patients to private practice and ambulatory treatment. But the government, when declaring confinement, has also declared that medical practitioners should only do online treatment and should close their practice. Result: 3 weeks later medical authorities are very worried: many patients in serious conditions or with severe chronic diseases don?t dare to call their medical practitioner and are afraid to go to the emergency services in hospital (fear of overloading them, fear of infection by Covid and fear of being cut out from their families (not allowed in the hospital). The pronostic is a possible wave of very serious cases needing urgent and heavy treatment. This wave will put extra-pressure on the sanitary system already overburden. Meanwhile small medical units are close to bankruptcy : their have to pay the salaries of their staff but have no income to do so. There is also a (still small) growing concern among social scientists that the teams that reflect on the pandemic and the confinement measures (and the planning of the end of the confinement) are made up of exclusively of epidemiologists and economists (with one or two specialists in ethics). Hence the psychic and social problems of the confined population are probably underestimated. Little is known of the underprivileged part of the population, now unemployed, in small housing, with little outreach. Schooling has gone online in a fortnight (with absolutely no preparation) but many students don?t have connections or share the unique computer of the household with parents and siblings all supposedly on line. This is only a few elements that characterise the situation. In parallel, many citizens are becoming increasingly aware of the dangers of the total interdependence of the economy and of the ecological disasters that this creates. Sanitary disasters and ecological disasters are much more interrelated than expected (a very nice book to understand that biological processes and ways of life social life are interdependent: Rob Dunn "Never home alone. From Microbes to Millipedes, Camel Crickets, and Honeybees, the Natural History of Where We Live"). There are also plenty of many nice examples of solidarity, creativity, etc. They need to converge and be made visible. We (MAPS in University of Neuch?tel) are engaging in a large inquiry based on Bruno Latour?s call (March 29, 2020): "A little exercise to make sure that, after the virus crisis, things don?t start again as they were before" (see http://www.bruno-latour.fr/node/852.html with already versions in English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Polish, German, Dutch). Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont Prof. em. Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont Institut de psychologie et ?ducation Facult? des lettres et sciences humaines Universit? de Neuch?tel Espace Tilo-Frey 1 (Anciennement: Espace Louis-Agassiz 1) CH- 2000 Neuch?tel (Suisse) http://www.unine.ch/ipe/publications/anne_nelly_perret_clermont Last publications: Perret-Clermont, A.-N., Sch?r, R., Greco, S., Convertini, J., Iannaccone, A., & Rocci, A. (2019). Shifting from a monological to a dialogical perspective on children?s argumentation. Lessons learned. In F. H. van Eemren & B. Garssen (Eds.), Argumentation in actual practice. Topical studies about argumentative discourse in context (pp. 211-236): John Benjamins Publishing Company. Version ?lectronique Iannaccone, A., Perret-Clermont, A.-N., & Convertini, J. (2019). Children as investigators of Brunerian ?Possible worlds?. The role of narrative scenarios in children?s argumentative thinking. . Integrative Psychological and Behiavioral Science, 53, 679-693. Version ?lectronique Perret-Clermont, A.-N., Perret, J.-F., Pochon, L.-O., & Marro, P. (2019). Hommage ? Jacques Perriault. Hermes, La Revue, 3, 226-226. In J.-P. Fragni?re (Ed.), Agir et penser avec Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont (pp. 71-107). Lausanne: Editions Socialinfo https://www.socialinfo.ch/les-livres/38-agir-et-penser-avec-anne-nelly-perret-clermont.html -- Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a landslide. Roy D'Andrade --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200411/2582d5d0/attachment.html From helenaworthen@gmail.com Sat Apr 11 12:42:32 2020 From: helenaworthen@gmail.com (Helena Worthen) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 12:42:32 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> Message-ID: The Latour exercise that Anne-Nelly provides is really provocative!!! I did it; it takes 10-15 minutes and helped me clarify my thinking. Thank you. Here?s the link again: http://www.bruno-latour.fr/node/852.html Helena Worthen helenaworthen.wordpress.com > On Apr 10, 2020, at 8:48 PM, mike cole wrote: > > Hi Anna-Lisa. What you describe has great similarities what people in the US are experiencing with the exception that it is now clear for all to see that it is poverty, or the security of the vulnerable (same thing in my view). > > Thanks very much for the Latium letter. It is totally relevant right now. > > Mike > > On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 9:38 AM PERRET-CLERMONT Anne-Nelly > wrote: > Hello everybody! > > Thank you so much for all the news and perspectives that are being shared from all over the Planet. Such difficult times, especially for those who can?t even send news... > > Some news from Switzerland, a privileged country, yet with very serious contamination rates. Almost 4 weeks of confinement (rights to go out are very limited and only a limited number of professions are still working) that totally re-organize our private and public life. > > The sun is shining wonderfully and it is very tempting to move out for this Easter holiday. Nevertheless, most people are very disciplined and stay home in confinement. > It took a lot of time for the local, cantonal and federal authorities to decide on the confinement measures. Switzerland?s political traditions impose bottom-up decisions. But the result of this (too slow?) process seems to be that most people agree and comply with this policy. Police forces try to do education and not repression. But the peak of the tide of contamination has not been reached yet and hospitals are under stress. > > The economic stress due to this long shut down arises a lot of fear on the side of trade unions and employers associations. Switzerland has very large multinational companies, but 90% of its firms are small or medium size business. Quite a number of them are now reaching the edge of bankruptcy. If they should go bankrup,t this would totally disorganise the country, its daily style of life and more: small firms and their locations impact regional demography, resources, power (in a federation of cantons), etc. after compulsory education, 60% of the young people attend dual education (i.e. half time in firms and half-time in school) and if firms shut down this education will fall apart. Government, banks and networks of citizens are lending money and trying to maintain these small firms alive. Unemployment rate is raising but rents have to be paid. Etc? > > Switzerland is a country of pharmaceutical industry and engineers. But the panic in the hospitals is not over: equipment is insufficient, and drugs are starting to miss. Local enterprises have the know how to make them but ?with ingredients that come exclusively from China and India. Hospitals have been afraid of losing 25% to 40% of their staff as nurses often come from the bordering regions of France and Italy. Finally, these countries have locked their borders but not for those professionals. This does not solve the problem on the long term, of course as these countries also need more medical staff. We hope that a growing awareness of the importance (and respect and salary) due to these professions will finally have the necessary impact. At 9 p.m., everybody goes at the window or balcony to give them a clap (or ring bells or even play music) for a minute to thank all the medical staff and other professions (e.g., cleaners) who likewise take enormous risks and make great efforts. > > The number of beds in the hospitals has been seriously increased by creative means. The ultraliberal policy of the last decade had seriously cut down the number of beds in hospital and sent many many patients to private practice and ambulatory treatment. But the government, when declaring confinement, has also declared that medical practitioners should only do online treatment and should close their practice. Result: 3 weeks later medical authorities are very worried: many patients in serious conditions or with severe chronic diseases don?t dare to call their medical practitioner and are afraid to go to the emergency services in hospital (fear of overloading them, fear of infection by Covid and fear of being cut out from their families (not allowed in the hospital). The pronostic is a possible wave of very serious cases needing urgent and heavy treatment. This wave will put extra-pressure on the sanitary system already overburden. Meanwhile small medical units are close to bankruptcy : their have to pay the salaries of their staff but have no income to do so. > > There is also a (still small) growing concern among social scientists that the teams that reflect on the pandemic and the confinement measures (and the planning of the end of the confinement) are made up of exclusively of epidemiologists and economists (with one or two specialists in ethics). Hence the psychic and social problems of the confined population are probably underestimated. > Little is known of the underprivileged part of the population, now unemployed, in small housing, with little outreach. Schooling has gone online in a fortnight (with absolutely no preparation) but many students don?t have connections or share the unique computer of the household with parents and siblings all supposedly on line. > > This is only a few elements that characterise the situation. In parallel, many citizens are becoming increasingly aware of the dangers of the total interdependence of the economy and of the ecological disasters that this creates. Sanitary disasters and ecological disasters are much more interrelated than expected (a very nice book to understand that biological processes and ways of life social life are interdependent: Rob Dunn "Never home alone. From Microbes to Millipedes, Camel Crickets, and Honeybees, the Natural History of Where We Live"). > > There are also plenty of many nice examples of solidarity, creativity, etc. They need to converge and be made visible. > > We (MAPS in University of Neuch?tel) are engaging in a large inquiry based on Bruno Latour?s call (March 29, 2020): "A little exercise to make sure that, after the virus crisis, things don?t start again as they were before" (see http://www.bruno-latour.fr/node/852.html with already versions in English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Polish, German, Dutch). > > Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont > > Prof. em. Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont > Institut de psychologie et ?ducation Facult? des lettres et sciences humaines > Universit? de Neuch?tel > Espace Tilo-Frey 1 (Anciennement: Espace Louis-Agassiz 1) > CH- 2000 Neuch?tel (Suisse ) > http://www.unine.ch/ipe/publications/anne_nelly_perret_clermont > > Last publications: > Perret-Clermont, A.-N., Sch?r, R., Greco, S., Convertini, J., Iannaccone, A., & Rocci, A. (2019). Shifting from a monological to a dialogical perspective on children?s argumentation. Lessons learned. In F. H. van Eemren & B. Garssen (Eds.), Argumentation in actual practice. Topical studies about argumentative discourse in context (pp. 211-236): John Benjamins Publishing Company. Version ?lectronique Iannaccone, A., Perret-Clermont, A.-N., & Convertini, J. (2019). Children as investigators of Brunerian ?Possible worlds?. The role of narrative scenarios in children?s argumentative thinking. . Integrative Psychological and Behiavioral Science, 53, 679-693. Version ?lectronique > Perret-Clermont, A.-N., Perret, J.-F., Pochon, L.-O., & Marro, P. (2019). Hommage ? Jacques Perriault. Hermes, La Revue, 3, 226-226. > > In J.-P. Fragni?re (Ed.), Agir et penser avec Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont (pp. 71-107). Lausanne: Editions Socialinfo https://www.socialinfo.ch/les-livres/38-agir-et-penser-avec-anne-nelly-perret-clermont.html > > > > > > > -- > Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a landslide. Roy D'Andrade > --------------------------------------------------- > For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit > lchc.ucsd.edu . For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu . > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200411/260e100f/attachment.html From laure.kloetzer@gmail.com Sat Apr 11 12:48:00 2020 From: laure.kloetzer@gmail.com (Laure Kloetzer) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 21:48:00 +0200 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> Message-ID: Good evening, In Neuch?tel, we sent an adapted version of the Latour questionnaire to our students for gathering their own reflections, with the goal to discuss them altogether after all this. Take care, Laure Kloetzer Le sam. 11 avr. 2020 ? 21:46, Helena Worthen a ?crit : > The Latour exercise that Anne-Nelly provides is really provocative!!! I > did it; it takes 10-15 minutes and helped me clarify my thinking. > > Thank you. Here?s the link again: > > http://www.bruno-latour.fr/node/852.html > > > Helena Worthen > helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > > > > On Apr 10, 2020, at 8:48 PM, mike cole wrote: > > Hi Anna-Lisa. What you describe has great similarities what people in the > US are experiencing with the exception that it is now clear for all to see > that it is poverty, or the security of the vulnerable (same thing in my > view). > > Thanks very much for the Latium letter. It is totally relevant right now. > > Mike > > On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 9:38 AM PERRET-CLERMONT Anne-Nelly < > Anne-Nelly.Perret-Clermont@unine.ch> wrote: > >> Hello everybody! >> >> Thank you so much for all the news and perspectives that are being shared >> from all over the Planet. Such difficult times, especially for those who >> can?t even send news... >> >> Some news from Switzerland, a privileged country, yet with very serious >> contamination rates. Almost 4 weeks of confinement (rights to go out are >> very limited and only a limited number of professions are still working) >> that totally re-organize our private and public life. >> >> The sun is shining wonderfully and it is very tempting to move out for >> this Easter holiday. Nevertheless, most people are very disciplined and >> stay home in confinement. >> It took a lot of time for the local, cantonal and federal authorities to >> decide on the confinement measures. Switzerland?s political traditions >> impose bottom-up decisions. But the result of this (too slow?) process >> seems to be that most people agree and comply with this policy. Police >> forces try to do education and not repression. But the peak of the tide of >> contamination has not been reached yet and hospitals are under stress. >> >> The economic stress due to this long shut down arises a lot of fear on >> the side of trade unions and employers associations. Switzerland has very >> large multinational companies, but 90% of its firms are small or medium >> size business. Quite a number of them are now reaching the edge of >> bankruptcy. If they should go bankrup,t this would totally disorganise the >> country, its daily style of life and more: small firms and their locations >> impact regional demography, resources, power (in a federation of cantons), >> etc. after compulsory education, 60% of the young people attend dual >> education (i.e. half time in firms and half-time in school) and if firms >> shut down this education will fall apart. Government, banks and networks of >> citizens are lending money and trying to maintain these small firms alive. >> Unemployment rate is raising but rents have to be paid. Etc? >> >> Switzerland is a country of pharmaceutical industry and engineers. But >> the panic in the hospitals is not over: equipment is insufficient, and >> drugs are starting to miss. Local enterprises have the know how to make >> them but ?with ingredients that come exclusively from China and India. >> Hospitals have been afraid of losing 25% to 40% of their staff as nurses >> often come from the bordering regions of France and Italy. Finally, these >> countries have locked their borders but not for those professionals. This >> does not solve the problem on the long term, of course as these countries >> also need more medical staff. We hope that a growing awareness of the >> importance (and respect and salary) due to these professions will finally >> have the necessary impact. At 9 p.m., everybody goes at the window or >> balcony to give them a clap (or ring bells or even play music) for a minute >> to thank all the medical staff and other professions (e.g., cleaners) who >> likewise take enormous risks and make great efforts. >> >> The number of beds in the hospitals has been seriously increased by >> creative means. The ultraliberal policy of the last decade had seriously >> cut down the number of beds in hospital and sent many many patients to >> private practice and ambulatory treatment. But the government, when >> declaring confinement, has also declared that medical practitioners should >> only do online treatment and should close their practice. Result: 3 weeks >> later medical authorities are very worried: many patients in serious >> conditions or with severe chronic diseases don?t dare to call their medical >> practitioner and are afraid to go to the emergency services in hospital >> (fear of overloading them, fear of infection by Covid and fear of being cut >> out from their families (not allowed in the hospital). The pronostic is a >> possible wave of very serious cases needing urgent and heavy treatment. >> This wave will put extra-pressure on the sanitary system already >> overburden. Meanwhile small medical units are close to bankruptcy : their >> have to pay the salaries of their staff but have no income to do so. >> >> There is also a (still small) growing concern among social scientists >> that the teams that reflect on the pandemic and the confinement measures >> (and the planning of the end of the confinement) are made up of exclusively >> of epidemiologists and economists (with one or two specialists in ethics). >> Hence the psychic and social problems of the confined population are >> probably underestimated. >> Little is known of the underprivileged part of the population, now >> unemployed, in small housing, with little outreach. Schooling has gone >> online in a fortnight (with absolutely no preparation) but many students >> don?t have connections or share the unique computer of the household with >> parents and siblings all supposedly on line. >> >> This is only a few elements that characterise the situation. In parallel, >> many citizens are becoming increasingly aware of the dangers of the total >> interdependence of the economy and of the ecological disasters that this >> creates. Sanitary disasters and ecological disasters are much more >> interrelated than expected (a very nice book to understand that biological >> processes and ways of life social life are interdependent: Rob Dunn *"Never >> home alone. **From Microbes to Millipedes, Camel Crickets, and >> Honeybees, the Natural History of Where We Live"*). >> >> There are also plenty of many nice examples of solidarity, creativity, >> etc. They need to converge and be made visible. >> >> We (MAPS in University of Neuch?tel) are engaging in a large inquiry >> based on Bruno Latour?s call (March 29, 2020): "A little exercise to >> make sure that, after the virus crisis, things don?t start again as they >> were before" (see http://www.bruno-latour.fr/node/852.html with already >> versions in English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Polish, German, Dutch). >> >> Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont >> >> >> >> Prof. em. Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont >> Institut de psychologie et ?ducation Facult? des lettres et sciences >> humaines >> Universit? de Neuch?tel >> Espace Tilo-Frey 1 >> >> (Anciennement: Espace Louis-Agassiz 1) >> >> CH- 2000 Neuch?tel (Suisse >> >> ) >> http://www.unine.ch/ipe/publications/anne_nelly_perret_clermont >> >> Last publications: >> Perret-Clermont, A.-N., Sch?r, R., Greco, S., Convertini, J., Iannaccone, >> A., & Rocci, A. (2019). Shifting from a monological to a dialogical >> perspective on children?s argumentation. Lessons learned. In F. H. van >> Eemren & B. Garssen (Eds.), *Argumentation in actual practice. Topical >> studies about argumentative discourse in context* (pp. 211-236): John >> Benjamins Publishing Company. *Version ?lectronique >> *Iannaccone, A., Perret-Clermont, >> A.-N., & Convertini, J. (2019). Children as investigators of Brunerian >> ?Possible worlds?. The role of narrative scenarios in children?s >> argumentative thinking. . Integrative Psychological and Behiavioral >> Science, 53, 679-693. *Version ?lectronique >> * >> >> Perret-Clermont, A.-N., Perret, J.-F., Pochon, L.-O., & Marro, P. (2019). Hommage >> ? Jacques Perriault. Hermes, La Revue, 3, 226-226. >> >> In J.-P. Fragni?re (Ed.), Agir et penser avec Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont >> (pp. 71-107). Lausanne: Editions Socialinfo >> https://www.socialinfo.ch/les-livres/38-agir-et-penser-avec-anne-nelly-perret-clermont.html >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- > Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a > landslide. Roy D'Andrade > --------------------------------------------------- > For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other > members of LCHC, visit > lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the > research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200411/875c1a75/attachment.html From helenaworthen@gmail.com Sat Apr 11 13:32:47 2020 From: helenaworthen@gmail.com (Helena Worthen) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 13:32:47 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> Message-ID: Hi, Laure ? It looks as if each group to which this is disseminated has to collect its own results and share them among themselves. I wish we could compile results across xmca at least to see which are the two activities chosen by this widespread community. H Helena Worthen helenaworthen.wordpress.com > On Apr 11, 2020, at 12:48 PM, Laure Kloetzer wrote: > > Good evening, > > In Neuch?tel, we sent an adapted version of the Latour questionnaire to our students for gathering their own reflections, with the goal to discuss them altogether after all this. > Take care, > Laure Kloetzer > > > Le sam. 11 avr. 2020 ? 21:46, Helena Worthen > a ?crit : > The Latour exercise that Anne-Nelly provides is really provocative!!! I did it; it takes 10-15 minutes and helped me clarify my thinking. > > Thank you. Here?s the link again: > > http://www.bruno-latour.fr/node/852.html > > > Helena Worthen > helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > > > >> On Apr 10, 2020, at 8:48 PM, mike cole > wrote: >> >> Hi Anna-Lisa. What you describe has great similarities what people in the US are experiencing with the exception that it is now clear for all to see that it is poverty, or the security of the vulnerable (same thing in my view). >> >> Thanks very much for the Latium letter. It is totally relevant right now. >> >> Mike >> >> On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 9:38 AM PERRET-CLERMONT Anne-Nelly > wrote: >> Hello everybody! >> >> Thank you so much for all the news and perspectives that are being shared from all over the Planet. Such difficult times, especially for those who can?t even send news... >> >> Some news from Switzerland, a privileged country, yet with very serious contamination rates. Almost 4 weeks of confinement (rights to go out are very limited and only a limited number of professions are still working) that totally re-organize our private and public life. >> >> The sun is shining wonderfully and it is very tempting to move out for this Easter holiday. Nevertheless, most people are very disciplined and stay home in confinement. >> It took a lot of time for the local, cantonal and federal authorities to decide on the confinement measures. Switzerland?s political traditions impose bottom-up decisions. But the result of this (too slow?) process seems to be that most people agree and comply with this policy. Police forces try to do education and not repression. But the peak of the tide of contamination has not been reached yet and hospitals are under stress. >> >> The economic stress due to this long shut down arises a lot of fear on the side of trade unions and employers associations. Switzerland has very large multinational companies, but 90% of its firms are small or medium size business. Quite a number of them are now reaching the edge of bankruptcy. If they should go bankrup,t this would totally disorganise the country, its daily style of life and more: small firms and their locations impact regional demography, resources, power (in a federation of cantons), etc. after compulsory education, 60% of the young people attend dual education (i.e. half time in firms and half-time in school) and if firms shut down this education will fall apart. Government, banks and networks of citizens are lending money and trying to maintain these small firms alive. Unemployment rate is raising but rents have to be paid. Etc? >> >> Switzerland is a country of pharmaceutical industry and engineers. But the panic in the hospitals is not over: equipment is insufficient, and drugs are starting to miss. Local enterprises have the know how to make them but ?with ingredients that come exclusively from China and India. Hospitals have been afraid of losing 25% to 40% of their staff as nurses often come from the bordering regions of France and Italy. Finally, these countries have locked their borders but not for those professionals. This does not solve the problem on the long term, of course as these countries also need more medical staff. We hope that a growing awareness of the importance (and respect and salary) due to these professions will finally have the necessary impact. At 9 p.m., everybody goes at the window or balcony to give them a clap (or ring bells or even play music) for a minute to thank all the medical staff and other professions (e.g., cleaners) who likewise take enormous risks and make great efforts. >> >> The number of beds in the hospitals has been seriously increased by creative means. The ultraliberal policy of the last decade had seriously cut down the number of beds in hospital and sent many many patients to private practice and ambulatory treatment. But the government, when declaring confinement, has also declared that medical practitioners should only do online treatment and should close their practice. Result: 3 weeks later medical authorities are very worried: many patients in serious conditions or with severe chronic diseases don?t dare to call their medical practitioner and are afraid to go to the emergency services in hospital (fear of overloading them, fear of infection by Covid and fear of being cut out from their families (not allowed in the hospital). The pronostic is a possible wave of very serious cases needing urgent and heavy treatment. This wave will put extra-pressure on the sanitary system already overburden. Meanwhile small medical units are close to bankruptcy : their have to pay the salaries of their staff but have no income to do so. >> >> There is also a (still small) growing concern among social scientists that the teams that reflect on the pandemic and the confinement measures (and the planning of the end of the confinement) are made up of exclusively of epidemiologists and economists (with one or two specialists in ethics). Hence the psychic and social problems of the confined population are probably underestimated. >> Little is known of the underprivileged part of the population, now unemployed, in small housing, with little outreach. Schooling has gone online in a fortnight (with absolutely no preparation) but many students don?t have connections or share the unique computer of the household with parents and siblings all supposedly on line. >> >> This is only a few elements that characterise the situation. In parallel, many citizens are becoming increasingly aware of the dangers of the total interdependence of the economy and of the ecological disasters that this creates. Sanitary disasters and ecological disasters are much more interrelated than expected (a very nice book to understand that biological processes and ways of life social life are interdependent: Rob Dunn "Never home alone. From Microbes to Millipedes, Camel Crickets, and Honeybees, the Natural History of Where We Live"). >> >> There are also plenty of many nice examples of solidarity, creativity, etc. They need to converge and be made visible. >> >> We (MAPS in University of Neuch?tel) are engaging in a large inquiry based on Bruno Latour?s call (March 29, 2020): "A little exercise to make sure that, after the virus crisis, things don?t start again as they were before" (see http://www.bruno-latour.fr/node/852.html with already versions in English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Polish, German, Dutch). >> >> Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont >> >> Prof. em. Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont >> Institut de psychologie et ?ducation Facult? des lettres et sciences humaines >> Universit? de Neuch?tel >> Espace Tilo-Frey 1 (Anciennement: Espace Louis-Agassiz 1) >> CH- 2000 Neuch?tel (Suisse ) >> http://www.unine.ch/ipe/publications/anne_nelly_perret_clermont >> >> Last publications: >> Perret-Clermont, A.-N., Sch?r, R., Greco, S., Convertini, J., Iannaccone, A., & Rocci, A. (2019). Shifting from a monological to a dialogical perspective on children?s argumentation. Lessons learned. In F. H. van Eemren & B. Garssen (Eds.), Argumentation in actual practice. Topical studies about argumentative discourse in context (pp. 211-236): John Benjamins Publishing Company. Version ?lectronique Iannaccone, A., Perret-Clermont, A.-N., & Convertini, J. (2019). Children as investigators of Brunerian ?Possible worlds?. The role of narrative scenarios in children?s argumentative thinking. . Integrative Psychological and Behiavioral Science, 53, 679-693. Version ?lectronique >> Perret-Clermont, A.-N., Perret, J.-F., Pochon, L.-O., & Marro, P. (2019). Hommage ? Jacques Perriault. Hermes, La Revue, 3, 226-226. >> >> In J.-P. Fragni?re (Ed.), Agir et penser avec Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont (pp. 71-107). Lausanne: Editions Socialinfo https://www.socialinfo.ch/les-livres/38-agir-et-penser-avec-anne-nelly-perret-clermont.html >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a landslide. Roy D'Andrade >> --------------------------------------------------- >> For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit >> lchc.ucsd.edu . For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu . >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200411/0f1989f2/attachment.html From a.j.gil@ils.uio.no Sat Apr 11 13:47:19 2020 From: a.j.gil@ils.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 20:47:19 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> Message-ID: One way could be compiling them in a google docs. Each question could be written as a heading, and under each heading, each participat writes name in Bold and then answer in body type. Would this work and would people be willing to fill in? If yes, here is a Google doc anyone could fill in: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1s23bmSz-Su4hohICZE_il8ujuhecIt2PeRcSa_TeSjw/edit?usp=sharing Alfredo From: on behalf of Helena Worthen Reply to: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Date: Saturday, 11 April 2020 at 22:37 To: "laure.kloetzer@gmail.com" , "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Hi, Laure ? It looks as if each group to which this is disseminated has to collect its own results and share them among themselves. I wish we could compile results across xmca at least to see which are the two activities chosen by this widespread community. H Helena Worthen helenaworthen.wordpress.com On Apr 11, 2020, at 12:48 PM, Laure Kloetzer > wrote: Good evening, In Neuch?tel, we sent an adapted version of the Latour questionnaire to our students for gathering their own reflections, with the goal to discuss them altogether after all this. Take care, Laure Kloetzer Le sam. 11 avr. 2020 ? 21:46, Helena Worthen > a ?crit : The Latour exercise that Anne-Nelly provides is really provocative!!! I did it; it takes 10-15 minutes and helped me clarify my thinking. Thank you. Here?s the link again: http://www.bruno-latour.fr/node/852.html Helena Worthen helenaworthen.wordpress.com On Apr 10, 2020, at 8:48 PM, mike cole > wrote: Hi Anna-Lisa. What you describe has great similarities what people in the US are experiencing with the exception that it is now clear for all to see that it is poverty, or the security of the vulnerable (same thing in my view). Thanks very much for the Latium letter. It is totally relevant right now. Mike On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 9:38 AM PERRET-CLERMONT Anne-Nelly > wrote: Hello everybody! Thank you so much for all the news and perspectives that are being shared from all over the Planet. Such difficult times, especially for those who can?t even send news... Some news from Switzerland, a privileged country, yet with very serious contamination rates. Almost 4 weeks of confinement (rights to go out are very limited and only a limited number of professions are still working) that totally re-organize our private and public life. The sun is shining wonderfully and it is very tempting to move out for this Easter holiday. Nevertheless, most people are very disciplined and stay home in confinement. It took a lot of time for the local, cantonal and federal authorities to decide on the confinement measures. Switzerland?s political traditions impose bottom-up decisions. But the result of this (too slow?) process seems to be that most people agree and comply with this policy. Police forces try to do education and not repression. But the peak of the tide of contamination has not been reached yet and hospitals are under stress. The economic stress due to this long shut down arises a lot of fear on the side of trade unions and employers associations. Switzerland has very large multinational companies, but 90% of its firms are small or medium size business. Quite a number of them are now reaching the edge of bankruptcy. If they should go bankrup,t this would totally disorganise the country, its daily style of life and more: small firms and their locations impact regional demography, resources, power (in a federation of cantons), etc. after compulsory education, 60% of the young people attend dual education (i.e. half time in firms and half-time in school) and if firms shut down this education will fall apart. Government, banks and networks of citizens are lending money and trying to maintain these small firms alive. Unemployment rate is raising but rents have to be paid. Etc? Switzerland is a country of pharmaceutical industry and engineers. But the panic in the hospitals is not over: equipment is insufficient, and drugs are starting to miss. Local enterprises have the know how to make them but ?with ingredients that come exclusively from China and India. Hospitals have been afraid of losing 25% to 40% of their staff as nurses often come from the bordering regions of France and Italy. Finally, these countries have locked their borders but not for those professionals. This does not solve the problem on the long term, of course as these countries also need more medical staff. We hope that a growing awareness of the importance (and respect and salary) due to these professions will finally have the necessary impact. At 9 p.m., everybody goes at the window or balcony to give them a clap (or ring bells or even play music) for a minute to thank all the medical staff and other professions (e.g., cleaners) who likewise take enormous risks and make great efforts. The number of beds in the hospitals has been seriously increased by creative means. The ultraliberal policy of the last decade had seriously cut down the number of beds in hospital and sent many many patients to private practice and ambulatory treatment. But the government, when declaring confinement, has also declared that medical practitioners should only do online treatment and should close their practice. Result: 3 weeks later medical authorities are very worried: many patients in serious conditions or with severe chronic diseases don?t dare to call their medical practitioner and are afraid to go to the emergency services in hospital (fear of overloading them, fear of infection by Covid and fear of being cut out from their families (not allowed in the hospital). The pronostic is a possible wave of very serious cases needing urgent and heavy treatment. This wave will put extra-pressure on the sanitary system already overburden. Meanwhile small medical units are close to bankruptcy : their have to pay the salaries of their staff but have no income to do so. There is also a (still small) growing concern among social scientists that the teams that reflect on the pandemic and the confinement measures (and the planning of the end of the confinement) are made up of exclusively of epidemiologists and economists (with one or two specialists in ethics). Hence the psychic and social problems of the confined population are probably underestimated. Little is known of the underprivileged part of the population, now unemployed, in small housing, with little outreach. Schooling has gone online in a fortnight (with absolutely no preparation) but many students don?t have connections or share the unique computer of the household with parents and siblings all supposedly on line. This is only a few elements that characterise the situation. In parallel, many citizens are becoming increasingly aware of the dangers of the total interdependence of the economy and of the ecological disasters that this creates. Sanitary disasters and ecological disasters are much more interrelated than expected (a very nice book to understand that biological processes and ways of life social life are interdependent: Rob Dunn "Never home alone. From Microbes to Millipedes, Camel Crickets, and Honeybees, the Natural History of Where We Live"). There are also plenty of many nice examples of solidarity, creativity, etc. They need to converge and be made visible. We (MAPS in University of Neuch?tel) are engaging in a large inquiry based on Bruno Latour?s call (March 29, 2020): "A little exercise to make sure that, after the virus crisis, things don?t start again as they were before" (see http://www.bruno-latour.fr/node/852.html with already versions in English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Polish, German, Dutch). Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont Prof. em. Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont Institut de psychologie et ?ducation Facult? des lettres et sciences humaines Universit? de Neuch?tel Espace Tilo-Frey 1 (Anciennement: Espace Louis-Agassiz 1) CH- 2000 Neuch?tel (Suisse) http://www.unine.ch/ipe/publications/anne_nelly_perret_clermont Last publications: Perret-Clermont, A.-N., Sch?r, R., Greco, S., Convertini, J., Iannaccone, A., & Rocci, A. (2019). Shifting from a monological to a dialogical perspective on children?s argumentation. Lessons learned. In F. H. van Eemren & B. Garssen (Eds.), Argumentation in actual practice. Topical studies about argumentative discourse in context (pp. 211-236): John Benjamins Publishing Company. Version ?lectronique Iannaccone, A., Perret-Clermont, A.-N., & Convertini, J. (2019). Children as investigators of Brunerian ?Possible worlds?. The role of narrative scenarios in children?s argumentative thinking. . Integrative Psychological and Behiavioral Science, 53, 679-693. Version ?lectronique Perret-Clermont, A.-N., Perret, J.-F., Pochon, L.-O., & Marro, P. (2019). Hommage ? Jacques Perriault. Hermes, La Revue, 3, 226-226. In J.-P. Fragni?re (Ed.), Agir et penser avec Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont (pp. 71-107). Lausanne: Editions Socialinfo https://www.socialinfo.ch/les-livres/38-agir-et-penser-avec-anne-nelly-perret-clermont.html -- Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a landslide. Roy D'Andrade --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200411/ae5eb4d6/attachment.html From greg.a.thompson@gmail.com Sat Apr 11 15:31:39 2020 From: greg.a.thompson@gmail.com (Greg Thompson) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 16:31:39 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> Message-ID: Alfredo and all, That's a fantastic idea, thanks for setting that up! I went ahead and provided some rather vision-less answers (frankly, as much as I loved the questions Latour posed, I wasn't sure where to start!). I'd love to see what others have to say. Just in case others didn't get Alfredo's email with the link to the shared document, here it is again: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1s23bmSz-Su4hohICZE_il8ujuhecIt2PeRcSa_ TeSjw/edit?usp=sharing -Greg On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 2:49 PM Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > One way could be compiling them in a google docs. Each question could be > written as a heading, and under each heading, each participat writes name > in Bold and then answer in body type. Would this work and would people be > willing to fill in? If yes, here is a Google doc anyone could fill in: > > > > > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1s23bmSz-Su4hohICZE_il8ujuhecIt2PeRcSa_TeSjw/edit?usp=sharing > > > > > > Alfredo > > > > *From: * on behalf of Helena Worthen < > helenaworthen@gmail.com> > *Reply to: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > *Date: *Saturday, 11 April 2020 at 22:37 > *To: *"laure.kloetzer@gmail.com" , "eXtended > Mind, Culture, Activity" > *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? > > > > Hi, Laure ? It looks as if each group to which this is disseminated has to > collect its own results and share them among themselves. I wish we could > compile results across xmca at least to see which are the two activities > chosen by this widespread community. > > > > H > > > > Helena Worthen > > helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 11, 2020, at 12:48 PM, Laure Kloetzer > wrote: > > > > Good evening, > > > > In Neuch?tel, we sent an adapted version of the Latour questionnaire to > our students for gathering their own reflections, with the goal to discuss > them altogether after all this. > > Take care, > > Laure Kloetzer > > > > > > Le sam. 11 avr. 2020 ? 21:46, Helena Worthen a > ?crit : > > The Latour exercise that Anne-Nelly provides is really provocative!!! I > did it; it takes 10-15 minutes and helped me clarify my thinking. > > > > Thank you. Here?s the link again: > > > > http://www.bruno-latour.fr/node/852.html > > > > > > Helena Worthen > > helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 10, 2020, at 8:48 PM, mike cole wrote: > > > > Hi Anna-Lisa. What you describe has great similarities what people in the > US are experiencing with the exception that it is now clear for all to see > that it is poverty, or the security of the vulnerable (same thing in my > view). > > > > Thanks very much for the Latium letter. It is totally relevant right now. > > > > Mike > > > > On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 9:38 AM PERRET-CLERMONT Anne-Nelly < > Anne-Nelly.Perret-Clermont@unine.ch> wrote: > > Hello everybody! > > > > Thank you so much for all the news and perspectives that are being shared > from all over the Planet. Such difficult times, especially for those who > can?t even send news... > > > > Some news from Switzerland, a privileged country, yet with very serious > contamination rates. Almost 4 weeks of confinement (rights to go out are > very limited and only a limited number of professions are still working) > that totally re-organize our private and public life. > > > > The sun is shining wonderfully and it is very tempting to move out for > this Easter holiday. Nevertheless, most people are very disciplined and > stay home in confinement. > > It took a lot of time for the local, cantonal and federal authorities to > decide on the confinement measures. Switzerland?s political traditions > impose bottom-up decisions. But the result of this (too slow?) process > seems to be that most people agree and comply with this policy. Police > forces try to do education and not repression. But the peak of the tide of > contamination has not been reached yet and hospitals are under stress. > > > > The economic stress due to this long shut down arises a lot of fear on the > side of trade unions and employers associations. Switzerland has very large > multinational companies, but 90% of its firms are small or medium size > business. Quite a number of them are now reaching the edge of bankruptcy. > If they should go bankrup,t this would totally disorganise the country, its > daily style of life and more: small firms and their locations impact > regional demography, resources, power (in a federation of cantons), etc. > after compulsory education, 60% of the young people attend dual education > (i.e. half time in firms and half-time in school) and if firms shut down > this education will fall apart. Government, banks and networks of citizens > are lending money and trying to maintain these small firms alive. > Unemployment rate is raising but rents have to be paid. Etc? > > > > Switzerland is a country of pharmaceutical industry and engineers. But the > panic in the hospitals is not over: equipment is insufficient, and drugs > are starting to miss. Local enterprises have the know how to make them but > ?with ingredients that come exclusively from China and India. Hospitals > have been afraid of losing 25% to 40% of their staff as nurses often come > from the bordering regions of France and Italy. Finally, these countries > have locked their borders but not for those professionals. This does not > solve the problem on the long term, of course as these countries also need > more medical staff. We hope that a growing awareness of the importance (and > respect and salary) due to these professions will finally have the > necessary impact. At 9 p.m., everybody goes at the window or balcony to > give them a clap (or ring bells or even play music) for a minute to thank > all the medical staff and other professions (e.g., cleaners) who likewise > take enormous risks and make great efforts. > > > > The number of beds in the hospitals has been seriously increased by > creative means. The ultraliberal policy of the last decade had seriously > cut down the number of beds in hospital and sent many many patients to > private practice and ambulatory treatment. But the government, when > declaring confinement, has also declared that medical practitioners should > only do online treatment and should close their practice. Result: 3 weeks > later medical authorities are very worried: many patients in serious > conditions or with severe chronic diseases don?t dare to call their medical > practitioner and are afraid to go to the emergency services in hospital > (fear of overloading them, fear of infection by Covid and fear of being cut > out from their families (not allowed in the hospital). The pronostic is a > possible wave of very serious cases needing urgent and heavy treatment. > This wave will put extra-pressure on the sanitary system already > overburden. Meanwhile small medical units are close to bankruptcy : their > have to pay the salaries of their staff but have no income to do so. > > > > There is also a (still small) growing concern among social scientists that > the teams that reflect on the pandemic and the confinement measures (and > the planning of the end of the confinement) are made up of exclusively of > epidemiologists and economists (with one or two specialists in ethics). > Hence the psychic and social problems of the confined population are > probably underestimated. > > Little is known of the underprivileged part of the population, now > unemployed, in small housing, with little outreach. Schooling has gone > online in a fortnight (with absolutely no preparation) but many students > don?t have connections or share the unique computer of the household with > parents and siblings all supposedly on line. > > > > This is only a few elements that characterise the situation. In parallel, > many citizens are becoming increasingly aware of the dangers of the total > interdependence of the economy and of the ecological disasters that this > creates. Sanitary disasters and ecological disasters are much more > interrelated than expected (a very nice book to understand that biological > processes and ways of life social life are interdependent: Rob Dunn *"Never > home alone. **From Microbes to Millipedes, Camel Crickets, and Honeybees, > the Natural History of Where We Live"*). > > > > There are also plenty of many nice examples of solidarity, creativity, > etc. They need to converge and be made visible. > > > > We (MAPS in University of Neuch?tel) are engaging in a large inquiry > based on Bruno Latour?s call (March 29, 2020): "A little exercise to make > sure that, after the virus crisis, things don?t start again as they were > before" (see http://www.bruno-latour.fr/node/852.html with already > versions in English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Polish, German, Dutch). > > > > Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont > > > > Prof. em. Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont > > Institut de psychologie et ?ducation Facult? des lettres et sciences > humaines > > Universit? de Neuch?tel > > Espace Tilo-Frey 1 > > (Anciennement: Espace Louis-Agassiz 1) > > > CH- 2000 Neuch?tel (Suisse > > ) > > http://www.unine.ch/ipe/publications/anne_nelly_perret_clermont > > > > Last publications: > > Perret-Clermont, A.-N., Sch?r, R., Greco, S., Convertini, J., Iannaccone, > A., & Rocci, A. (2019). Shifting from a monological to a dialogical > perspective on children?s argumentation. Lessons learned. In F. H. van > Eemren & B. Garssen (Eds.), *Argumentation in actual practice. Topical > studies about argumentative discourse in context* (pp. 211-236): John > Benjamins Publishing Company. *Version ?lectronique > *Iannaccone, A., Perret-Clermont, > A.-N., & Convertini, J. (2019). Children as investigators of Brunerian > ?Possible worlds?. The role of narrative scenarios in children?s > argumentative thinking. . Integrative Psychological and Behiavioral > Science, 53, 679-693. *Version ?lectronique > * > > Perret-Clermont, A.-N., Perret, J.-F., Pochon, L.-O., & Marro, P. (2019). > Hommage ? Jacques Perriault. Hermes, La Revue, 3, 226-226. > > In J.-P. Fragni?re (Ed.), Agir et penser avec Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont > (pp. 71-107). Lausanne: Editions Socialinfo > https://www.socialinfo.ch/les-livres/38-agir-et-penser-avec-anne-nelly-perret-clermont.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a > landslide. Roy D'Andrade > > --------------------------------------------------- > > For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other > members of LCHC, visit > > lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the > research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. > > > > > > > > > -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200411/8338bd7f/attachment.html From greg.a.thompson@gmail.com Sat Apr 11 15:46:45 2020 From: greg.a.thompson@gmail.com (Greg Thompson) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 16:46:45 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Two more notes, one on the list-serve and a question for Liz Fein: 1. I frequently will get responses to a thread that will not be included with the thread (Liz' response was one such response). Also, I did not get Beth Ferholt's initial email either. 2. Liz! You said that your students are increasingly feeling a pull toward the question: "how we can change psychotherapies to be social and revolutionary so that patients can insist that people in their worlds change with them?" That sounds to me like a fantastic question. Even without the political import (which I applaud), this goes right to the heart of what I like to think is a central episteme of CHAT - the inseparability of figure/ground (of form/content, substance/style, etc.) - esp. with regard to the sacrosanct and inviolate ("hypostatized" as some anthros like to say) individual psychological subject. And so I'd love to hear more about your on-the-ground-experiences of this. Assuming that there are some common threads among your students, can you say what kinds of revolutions your students feel pulled toward? In other words, HOW do they imagine the world changing "with" their patients? What kinds of changes do they see as necessary? I'm a pessimist about these kinds of things, so what you describe gives me a glimmer of hope! -greg On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 11:58 AM Dr. Elizabeth Fein wrote: > Hello Annalie - I am thinking about this question a lot also: "how we can > change psychotherapies to be social and revolutionary so that patients can > insist that people in their worlds change with them?" Many of the graduate > students that I supervise on their psychotherapy cases feel an ongoing pull > in this direction, and we talk and write about it often, but it often feels > hard to get traction around instantiating it in our work, even as the > in-house clinic within our department is very flexible and open to many > different explorations. > I am listening with you. > Elizabeth > > > On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 10:01 AM Annalie Pistorius < > annalie.pistorius@smu.ac.za> wrote: > > Hi im still here with you. Sitting together is something to do. Our > university had shut down before the lockdown here in South Africa ? our > students and SRC being medical students have taken charge the way they > usually do. I must say they always impress me, how they can manoeuvre all > staff when there is a leadership crisis. However now with the Corona world > crisis, I am impressed how everyone here including our leaders stand firm > and together, herding us and being giving to poor communities. > > I watch BBC world news almost every day, and was impressed to see that > even in Cape Town our gang members have started using their leadership to > organise and direct the handing out of food parcels to their community > members. Of cause, not everyone is seeing all of this as positive as I am > painting it here. > > I am reminded of the bitter sweetness of the situation, by my patient > (with whom I am doing psychotherapy sessions on my cell phone at a very > high cost, don?t ask me why not on internet), that his problem of stress, > headaches and severe depression is dissolving because he is not at work. > No-one shouting into his ears, the voices of critique fading?Now what > should be done so that when he goes back his problem continues to dissolve? > > Is this our moment to build onto? ? how we can change psychotherapies to > be social and revolutionary so that patients can insist that people in > their worlds change with them? > > That?s why I am here listening. > > Greetings > > Annalie > > > > > > *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu *On > Behalf Of *Alfredo Jornet Gil > *Sent:* Saturday, 11 April 2020 10:58 AM > *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? > > > > The list of xmca members is indeed long! Here is a link to the list: > http://lchc-resources.org/xmca/subscriber_list.php > > Alfredo > > > > > > *From: * on behalf of Helena Worthen < > helenaworthen@gmail.com> > *Reply to: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > *Date: *Friday, 10 April 2020 at 22:11 > *To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? > > > > This is a gracefully written New Yorker-worthy piece of dark dystopian > fiction. I would like to start up the whole Utopia discussion again, which > I never felt clamped its teeth down hard enough.Thanks, David. > > > > I am seeing responses from David Kellogg, Peg Griffin, Mike Cole, Greg > Thompson, Rein Raud in Estonia, David Kirshner, Ed Wall, Henry Shoner, Andy > Blunden, Martin Packer in Bogota, Richard Beach ? who did I miss? There > are more of us out there. I worry about Haydi in Iran. > > > > I am swamped with Zoom, telephone and email. Rather than clog up this > list I?ll re-visit my blog (below) just in case anyone reads it ? this is > with regards to the price of vegetables, David Kellogg. > > > > Other than that: the book about contingency goes back through 4 past > transitions in higher education: standardization (Carnegie, SATs etc); > expansion (the GI bill); the Movement era (civil rights, 1968, etc) and > then the neoliberal contraction, for which the explosion of contingency (no > job security/no academic freedom, crap wages) was a solution to a set of > interlocking administrative problems. WE then go into a lot of detail about > what organizing unions for faculty and campus workers in higher education > is like. Thanks for asking, David. > > > > I?m doing Zoom piano lessons for grandchildren, in hopes that they will > come out of this with at least one skill that is useful to humanity. Also > working with DSA (Democratic Socialists of America) to lead reading groups > about the recent wave of teacher strikes. Still owe Andy a review of his > Hegel book; thanks for uploading the difference between Hegel and Marx > paper, Andy. > > > > There are still some more xmca-ers out there that haven't checked in. > > > > > > Helena Worthen > > 21 San MAteo Road, Berkeley 94707 > > 510-828-2745 > > > > helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 10, 2020, at 12:39 PM, mike cole wrote: > > > > The new samizdat, David? > > mike > > > > On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 10:31 AM David H Kirshner wrote: > > Here?s a fictional reminder of what more may be at stake in the current > political era. > > https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/04/06/love-letter > > David > > > > *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu *On > Behalf Of *Peg Griffin, Ph.D. > *Sent:* Friday, April 10, 2020 11:55 AM > *To:* 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' > *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? > > > > Henry, > > Only thing I know for sure about any bill is this: If it doesn?t serve > well the top 1%, then McConnell won?t have it come to the floor for a vote > in the Senate, so many reasonably good bills are never enacted and no > Senator or President need be held accountable about their opposition. > > > > But, what I know about intersectional groups in the past few years is that > we have to reach out in any and all ways possible to be sure we do not step > on each other?s messages, actions, and needs, and to be sure we have ways > of getting and giving timely support as allies. > > > > It sounds wimpy for a bumper sticker, but I wish I had one that said > ?Protect Fragile Solidarity!? > > I think we may be inching in that awkward direction though: SPLC has > normalized the bumper sticker, ?Restore the Vote.? > > Peg > > > > *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [ > mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu ] *On > Behalf Of *HENRY SHONERD > *Sent:* Friday, April 10, 2020 12:05 AM > *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? > > > > Peg, > > I really don?t know anymore about life on the Rez now than what I read on > line, what I have heard on Native America Calling on our local public radio > station KUNM and what I hear from my Navajo Family near Shiprock. So far, > no one in my family there is sick. I have no insider information that might > help pull the right strings in DC. Deb Haaland sends out regular bulletins > describing what she is doing to benefit all New Mexicans, no specific > mention of what?s happening on the Navajo. You know more about the bills > than I do! > > Henry > > > > > > On Apr 9, 2020, at 2:36 PM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. > wrote: > > > > Henry, may I ask you to discuss Co-Vid 19 in the Navajo Nation? From news > reports the Nation seems to be proactive, trying new and old ways of > proceeding. But, in comparison to nearby states, more and deeper problems > faced with fewer and less stable resources? DC got robbed in the second > bailout bill ? way underfunded. Plans are getting formed and deformed > about pushing for fixes in the next bill (now in messes in both House and > Senate). Do you know if there are any Navajo plans that DC folk can > support, maybe learn from (or at least stop from inadvertently stepping > on?) Is staff in Deb Haaland?s office in the HOB a good place to try to > find out or ?? > > > > A good fantasy about November, Henry. Somehow, it reminds me of the early > days in the Fifth Dimension. The children engaged in transformational > journeys, taking their avatars through rooms in a table top maze, choosing > which of several openings they would use as entry and eventual exit, > choosing which of different tasks in the room to do (harder tasks coupled > with more choice over which exits from room they could use), collaborating > with peers and lovely Big Sisters and Brothers, and there was always the > Wizard ?guardian or trickster or sometimes asleep at the wheel. At an > exit, avatars transformed and children went to the creature store to pick > the token of the transformation to travel with if they chose to enter the 5 > th D again. > > > > But there was also a different world with university and public school > calendars and rites of passage. At times for seams important to that world, > the children got shirts screen-printed with words ranging from ?I conquered > the 5thdimension? ?I barely survived the 5th Dimension? ?I almost > survived the 5th Dimension? and so on ?I?m in the middle? ?I?m just > starting?? A child reviewed the prior period of time, negotiating which > words would be on their shirt. (Of all the weird things in the 5th D, > Mike laughs best about the carefully differentiated shirts.) > > > > So, how about you and I in the here(s) and now(s)? We make choice after > choice after choice and work hard at enough to transform the current > elected officials to try to choose better creatures as we exit this > iteration of a government and enter again for choices and tasks in the next > iteration. Concurrently, we have to keep our eye on the prize of the CoVid > 19 pandemic world and survival in it. > > > > BTW, I do live inside the Beltway ? 12 blocks north and east of Union > Station. The museums, the food, and the HOBs (House Office Buildings) ? as > well as the SOBs across the capitol park ? all nearby, familiar sites of > camaraderie for efforts, some successful and some not so much. > > > > Peg > > > > *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [ > mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu ] *On > Behalf Of *HENRY SHONERD > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 8, 2020 7:52 PM > *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? > > > > I was born at Mercy Hospital in Washington DC. Do you actually live inside > the Beltway? Great museums there and food. Scads of family from both Judy?s > and my side. One of the last times I visited there, I went to Michelle?s > office: She was our representative at the time. She gets around. > > > > I have this fantasy brought on by the pandemic and New Mexico?s Blue > (Democratic) sweep in 2018 that brought us three kick-ass women: Governor > Michelle...Representative Deborah Halland for Albuquerque and surrounds > where we live (I canvassed for her in the primary!)?and Representative > Xochi Small to the south. All Democrats. The fantasy is that these historic > times, this perizhvanie, this Lev budding, will bear fruit in November that > gets us through another narrow place. And we will celebrate. Fitting that > Passover is tonight, a celebration of liberation from slavery, and a time > when we recognize that we are all really strangers, wherever we live. > > > > Yikes! Talk about Biblical dialect! It?s as catching as that Corona bug! > > > > Must stay well > > Henry > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 8, 2020, at 4:27 PM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. > wrote: > > > > I live in Washington, DC, Henry, but my roots here are by way of LCHC in > San Diego which begot xlchc which begot xmca. Don?t know why I switched > into a biblical dialect, but not hallucinations, just whimsy. And a little > tired this evening. > > Did you notice how my motif in my last post turned unto motive when I sent > it? I think it was Leonti?ev sneaking in. > > The description of your mask seems dashing! Could Judy have alternative > (or ulterior) motive (or motif)? > > Hmmm, just recognized the 5th Dimension wanting into the lineage > recital. Still no hallucination just a few sips of a nice Tuscan blend? > > Peg > > > > *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [ > mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu ] *On > Behalf Of *HENRY SHONERD > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 8, 2020 5:14 PM > *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? > > > > Hey Peg! > > Yes, I will tell Governor Michelle you?re rooting for her from where you > and yours are at! Please forgive my senior moment, but where do YOU live? > > > > My wife Judy figured out how to make a mask from a bandana and two hair > ties. Like I?m ready to rob the stage coach, full of ppe (personal > protective equipment).:) I saw a cartoon of Trump and his underlings at one > of his you-can?t-make-it-up briefings. They are wearing masks that cover > nose and mouth. Trump has a Lone Ranger mask. Here?s a link for those short > on Americana: > > > https://www.pinterest.com/robertharmon311/lone-ranger-mask-patterns-for-save-ranger-challeng/ > > > > > Stay safe and well! > > Henry > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 8, 2020, at 11:27 AM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. > wrote: > > > > Henry, please tell your governor/friend, Michelle Lujan Grisham, ?We see > her, we hear her, we love her, and we know we need her.? > > > > Groups here that made good use of allies before the pandemic are making > good, well-planned use of us now, especially for those in the shadows, by > necessity or oversight, to address basic food and medical insecurity. > > > > And thank you, too, Henry and others on xmca. > > > > Relatively healthy (AKA no Co-vid19 that we know of and well masked ? my > favorite right now is an easily washed and bleached homemade one with a > blue lamb motive ? anyone need a pdf for making adult or child masks, with > or without hepa-filters?) and safe, > > Peg > > > > *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [ > mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu ] *On > Behalf Of *HENRY SHONERD > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 8, 2020 12:48 PM > *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? > > > > Hi All, > > Like Greg, I was struck by Andy?s sense that China may go back to ?normal? > but the neo-liberal ?first" world is and will be experiencing a profound > perizhvanie. You?d hope it will be for the good. > > > > In the U.S,, generally, rates of infection are positively correlated with > density of population. For example, I live in New Mexico, the fifth largest > state in the U.S. with a population of a little over a one million and the > lowest rate of infection?so far. However, our Navajo live spread out to the > west and north of us, but have very high rates of infection. Little Zia > Pueblo, just an our by car to the north and west of us, only has about a > thousand people, with eleven confirmed cases. Poverty. In the country as a > whole people of color have relatively higher rates of infection. Poverty. > > > > Our governor, Michelle Lujan Grisham (who I am proud to say is a good > friend), has been successful in pushing baci against Trump?s efforts to > punish states that did not vote for him by being less than cooperative in > providing resources against the pandemic. She has been using her bully > pulpit against Trump's bloviating. His hot air has got to be an infectious > agent. Most of us are using masks in public, evidence indicating that it > protects OTHERS by wearing them. Trump prefers NOT to wear a mask. > Consistent with his politics. You can?t make this up. > > > > Be well, > > Henry > > > > On Apr 8, 2020, at 9:00 AM, Greg Thompson > wrote: > > > > David, > > > > I wonder if you could say more about your experience of the state-based > "surveillance" in SK. There are lots of different groups in the U.S., both > on the left and the right, who are up in arms about the "tracking" of > citizens via credit card and cell phone usage. > > > > And it sounds like this is a global concern as Mary's report from SA > suggests. > > > > Also how interesting how similar the conspiracy theories are around the > globe (globalization and the spread of viral ideas?). That's world > perezhivanie indeed! > > > > -greg > > > > On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 3:08 PM David Kellogg wrote: > > Helena-- > > > > Situation in China, courtesy my sister-in-law: life in Beijing is pretty > much back to normal at least on the face of it. People are going out to > their work units (but there is more work from home than before the > crisis). Classes still largely taught from ZOOM. My nephew is in > Shanghai, where the situation is somewhat tighter (proximity to > Wuhan). Wuhan opened up for real yesterday--people can leave (I lived there > for two years in the mid-eighties, but I can barely recognize what I see on > the news now....) I have students in Chengdu (who attend my class via > ZOOM). People are mostly shopping on line with delivery to the gate of the > housing unit rather than to their flat (as we do here in Korea). Air > quality better than it's been in decades. > > > > Situation here in South Korea: We just extended our lockdown for another > two weeks. This is in response to a few days of new infections over a > hundred, but the infections are mostly (80%) Koreans from the US and Europe > who want to live in a place where the medical system has not broken down or > is not in the process of breaking down. There are still some "hotspots" of > community transmission, but these are almost all connected with churches or > PC cafes. Schools reopen on the 16th, but only online. We have elections in > a week, and there is a lot of campaigning going on, including the usual > street based campaigning (the right wing opposition campaigns around the > curious notion that the government has done absolutely nothing, and the > government ignores everybody who is not an actual virus). People shop in > stores, and there is no panic buying or disruption of supply chains. The > main changes in economic life seem to have to do with transport, and it > seems like this too will be permanent (electric scooters are everywhere > now). Bowing instead of shaking hands is really not a bad idea, and > coffee-shops always were over-rated and over-priced.... > > > > But what about you, Helena? (One of the things I have learned on this list > is that you get more or less what you give--people tend to use what you > write as a model for writing back!) Are you still in Vietnam? Your address > says Berkeley and your email says Illinois--those are three very different > venues for the virus and the economy. Can you give us a brief account of > the situation in each? > > > > Stay safe, wherever you are! > > > David Kellogg > > Sangmyung University > > > > Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of *Critical > Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational > action research * > > in *Mind Culture and Activity* > > > > *https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847* > > > > > Some free e-prints available at: > > > > > https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 > > > > > New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works > Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" > > > > https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 4:30 AM Martin Packer wrote: > > Hi Helena, > > > > I share your concerns. And, despite its challenges, this situation seems a > great opportunity to apply our distributed expertise(s). I tried to get > some discussion going in a group concerned with the Anthropocene, but > people seemed disinclined. > > > > Martin > > > > Here?s the first message that I sent? > > > > The current situation is producing important evidence about the probable > consequences of the strategies proposed to mitigate climate change. > Satellites are showing significant reductions in pollution: > > > https://www.space.com/italy-coronavirus-outbreak-response-reduces-emissions-satellite-images.html > > > Experts are suggesting that as a result the coronavirus may save more > lives than it takes: > > > https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2020/03/11/coronavirus-lockdown-may-save-more-lives-from-pollution-and-climate-than-from-virus/#4a39bb3c5764 > > > So when skeptics ask ?How can you know that reducing air travel will help > with climate change?? there is now clear evidence with which to answer them. > > > > Also in China: > > > https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/04/811019032/why-chinas-air-has-been-cleaner-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak > > > > > At the same time, I am starting to wonder whether the current health > guidelines regarding coronvirus are culturally biased. Can they work in > ?collectivist? cultures (to use the shorthand)? The CDC guidelines, for > example, include the recommendations to ?Stay home when you are sick,? but > also that other members of the household should ?Avoid close contact with > people who are sick? and should ?Choose a room in your home that can be > used to separate sick household members from those who are healthy. > Identify a separate bathroom for the sick person to use, if possible.? > > This advice is simply not practicable for many households in Colombia. > There are not enough rooms; there is no second bathroom. In addition, many > infants and young children here are cared for by grandparents, or even > great-grandparents (many women here have a baby when young, so an infant > may have a grandmother who is in her late 30s and a great-grandmother in > her late 50s). The evidence shows that children don?t become very ill, but > they do get infected and they can infect other people, among whom elderly > caregivers will be the most at risk. > > So I don?t think social distance and auto-quarantine will work in > Colombia. Consider what the Chinese did: they went door-to-door to identify > infected family members and removed them to massive collective quarantine > setttings. People in the West considered this to be draconian, even cruel. > But it made sense: much more cross-infection occurred in Chinese homes than > in places like restaurants. > > Unless the authorities can come up with strategies that are more > appropriate to local circumstances and practices, there is likely to be a > rapid and elevated peak of infections in Latin American countries. > > > > And I see there is a related point here, on ageism: > > https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200313155256.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 7, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Helena Worthen > wrote: > > > > Hello, XMCA-ers - > > > > I don?t remember ever having read that this list was going to shut down or > even be allowed to fade away. So now I?m writing, as if in the dark, to the > whole list. We?ve now got a major ? maybe ?the? major crisis of the > anthropocene on our hands and the distant but connected network represented > by the conversations on this list seem to me to be a treasure more precious > than gold - and I?m not speaking metaphorically. > > > > I am concerned about some of the people who have been pillars and > resources on his list, people whom I have reached out to over the years and > heard back from with information and perspectives that I would never have > been able to access on my own. Where are you now? What are you doing? Are > you safe and healthy? Do you have information about friends who are unable > to read or respond to this request? > > > > I hope to hear some responses to this message. > > > > Take care of yourselves, please ? > > > > Helena > > > > > > Helena Worthen > > hworthen@illinois.edu > > 21 San Mateo Road, Berkeley, CA 94707 > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > > Assistant Professor > > Department of Anthropology > > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > > Brigham Young University > > Provo, UT 84602 > > WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson > > > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > > > > > > > > -- > > Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a > landslide. Roy D'Andrade > > --------------------------------------------------- > > For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other > members of LCHC, visit > > lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the > research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. > > > > > -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200411/29546975/attachment.html From a.j.gil@ils.uio.no Sat Apr 11 15:57:48 2020 From: a.j.gil@ils.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 22:57:48 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <89F1C95A-CC3A-4B19-A839-2ACD951FB13D@uio.no> (I do not think there?s been an e-mail from Beth in xmca recently. We?ve been referring to exchanges with her in other fora here, about her experiences in Brooklyn during the pandemic, but has there been an e-mail by her to this list? If yes, I?ve missed it too, but I doubt it.) Alfredo From: on behalf of Greg Thompson Reply to: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Date: Sunday, 12 April 2020 at 00:51 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in Two more notes, one on the list-serve and a question for Liz Fein: 1. I frequently will get responses to a thread that will not be included with the thread (Liz' response was one such response). Also, I did not get Beth Ferholt's initial email either. 2. Liz! You said that your students are increasingly feeling a pull toward the question: "how we can change psychotherapies to be social and revolutionary so that patients can insist that people in their worlds change with them?" That sounds to me like a fantastic question. Even without the political import (which I applaud), this goes right to the heart of what I like to think is a central episteme of CHAT - the inseparability of figure/ground (of form/content, substance/style, etc.) - esp. with regard to the sacrosanct and inviolate ("hypostatized" as some anthros like to say) individual psychological subject. And so I'd love to hear more about your on-the-ground-experiences of this. Assuming that there are some common threads among your students, can you say what kinds of revolutions your students feel pulled toward? In other words, HOW do they imagine the world changing "with" their patients? What kinds of changes do they see as necessary? I'm a pessimist about these kinds of things, so what you describe gives me a glimmer of hope! -greg On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 11:58 AM Dr. Elizabeth Fein > wrote: Hello Annalie - I am thinking about this question a lot also: "how we can change psychotherapies to be social and revolutionary so that patients can insist that people in their worlds change with them?" Many of the graduate students that I supervise on their psychotherapy cases feel an ongoing pull in this direction, and we talk and write about it often, but it often feels hard to get traction around instantiating it in our work, even as the in-house clinic within our department is very flexible and open to many different explorations. I am listening with you. Elizabeth On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 10:01 AM Annalie Pistorius > wrote: Hi im still here with you. Sitting together is something to do. Our university had shut down before the lockdown here in South Africa ? our students and SRC being medical students have taken charge the way they usually do. I must say they always impress me, how they can manoeuvre all staff when there is a leadership crisis. However now with the Corona world crisis, I am impressed how everyone here including our leaders stand firm and together, herding us and being giving to poor communities. I watch BBC world news almost every day, and was impressed to see that even in Cape Town our gang members have started using their leadership to organise and direct the handing out of food parcels to their community members. Of cause, not everyone is seeing all of this as positive as I am painting it here. I am reminded of the bitter sweetness of the situation, by my patient (with whom I am doing psychotherapy sessions on my cell phone at a very high cost, don?t ask me why not on internet), that his problem of stress, headaches and severe depression is dissolving because he is not at work. No-one shouting into his ears, the voices of critique fading?Now what should be done so that when he goes back his problem continues to dissolve? Is this our moment to build onto? ? how we can change psychotherapies to be social and revolutionary so that patients can insist that people in their worlds change with them? That?s why I am here listening. Greetings Annalie From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > On Behalf Of Alfredo Jornet Gil Sent: Saturday, 11 April 2020 10:58 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? The list of xmca members is indeed long! Here is a link to the list: http://lchc-resources.org/xmca/subscriber_list.php Alfredo From: > on behalf of Helena Worthen > Reply to: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Date: Friday, 10 April 2020 at 22:11 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? This is a gracefully written New Yorker-worthy piece of dark dystopian fiction. I would like to start up the whole Utopia discussion again, which I never felt clamped its teeth down hard enough.Thanks, David. I am seeing responses from David Kellogg, Peg Griffin, Mike Cole, Greg Thompson, Rein Raud in Estonia, David Kirshner, Ed Wall, Henry Shoner, Andy Blunden, Martin Packer in Bogota, Richard Beach ? who did I miss? There are more of us out there. I worry about Haydi in Iran. I am swamped with Zoom, telephone and email. Rather than clog up this list I?ll re-visit my blog (below) just in case anyone reads it ? this is with regards to the price of vegetables, David Kellogg. Other than that: the book about contingency goes back through 4 past transitions in higher education: standardization (Carnegie, SATs etc); expansion (the GI bill); the Movement era (civil rights, 1968, etc) and then the neoliberal contraction, for which the explosion of contingency (no job security/no academic freedom, crap wages) was a solution to a set of interlocking administrative problems. WE then go into a lot of detail about what organizing unions for faculty and campus workers in higher education is like. Thanks for asking, David. I?m doing Zoom piano lessons for grandchildren, in hopes that they will come out of this with at least one skill that is useful to humanity. Also working with DSA (Democratic Socialists of America) to lead reading groups about the recent wave of teacher strikes. Still owe Andy a review of his Hegel book; thanks for uploading the difference between Hegel and Marx paper, Andy. There are still some more xmca-ers out there that haven't checked in. Helena Worthen 21 San MAteo Road, Berkeley 94707 510-828-2745 helenaworthen.wordpress.com On Apr 10, 2020, at 12:39 PM, mike cole > wrote: The new samizdat, David? mike On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 10:31 AM David H Kirshner > wrote: Here?s a fictional reminder of what more may be at stake in the current political era. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/04/06/love-letter David From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > On Behalf Of Peg Griffin, Ph.D. Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 11:55 AM To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Henry, Only thing I know for sure about any bill is this: If it doesn?t serve well the top 1%, then McConnell won?t have it come to the floor for a vote in the Senate, so many reasonably good bills are never enacted and no Senator or President need be held accountable about their opposition. But, what I know about intersectional groups in the past few years is that we have to reach out in any and all ways possible to be sure we do not step on each other?s messages, actions, and needs, and to be sure we have ways of getting and giving timely support as allies. It sounds wimpy for a bumper sticker, but I wish I had one that said ?Protect Fragile Solidarity!? I think we may be inching in that awkward direction though: SPLC has normalized the bumper sticker, ?Restore the Vote.? Peg From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 12:05 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Peg, I really don?t know anymore about life on the Rez now than what I read on line, what I have heard on Native America Calling on our local public radio station KUNM and what I hear from my Navajo Family near Shiprock. So far, no one in my family there is sick. I have no insider information that might help pull the right strings in DC. Deb Haaland sends out regular bulletins describing what she is doing to benefit all New Mexicans, no specific mention of what?s happening on the Navajo. You know more about the bills than I do! Henry On Apr 9, 2020, at 2:36 PM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. > wrote: Henry, may I ask you to discuss Co-Vid 19 in the Navajo Nation? From news reports the Nation seems to be proactive, trying new and old ways of proceeding. But, in comparison to nearby states, more and deeper problems faced with fewer and less stable resources? DC got robbed in the second bailout bill ? way underfunded. Plans are getting formed and deformed about pushing for fixes in the next bill (now in messes in both House and Senate). Do you know if there are any Navajo plans that DC folk can support, maybe learn from (or at least stop from inadvertently stepping on?) Is staff in Deb Haaland?s office in the HOB a good place to try to find out or ?? A good fantasy about November, Henry. Somehow, it reminds me of the early days in the Fifth Dimension. The children engaged in transformational journeys, taking their avatars through rooms in a table top maze, choosing which of several openings they would use as entry and eventual exit, choosing which of different tasks in the room to do (harder tasks coupled with more choice over which exits from room they could use), collaborating with peers and lovely Big Sisters and Brothers, and there was always the Wizard ?guardian or trickster or sometimes asleep at the wheel. At an exit, avatars transformed and children went to the creature store to pick the token of the transformation to travel with if they chose to enter the 5th D again. But there was also a different world with university and public school calendars and rites of passage. At times for seams important to that world, the children got shirts screen-printed with words ranging from ?I conquered the 5thdimension? ?I barely survived the 5th Dimension? ?I almost survived the 5th Dimension? and so on ?I?m in the middle? ?I?m just starting?? A child reviewed the prior period of time, negotiating which words would be on their shirt. (Of all the weird things in the 5th D, Mike laughs best about the carefully differentiated shirts.) So, how about you and I in the here(s) and now(s)? We make choice after choice after choice and work hard at enough to transform the current elected officials to try to choose better creatures as we exit this iteration of a government and enter again for choices and tasks in the next iteration. Concurrently, we have to keep our eye on the prize of the CoVid 19 pandemic world and survival in it. BTW, I do live inside the Beltway ? 12 blocks north and east of Union Station. The museums, the food, and the HOBs (House Office Buildings) ? as well as the SOBs across the capitol park ? all nearby, familiar sites of camaraderie for efforts, some successful and some not so much. Peg From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 7:52 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? I was born at Mercy Hospital in Washington DC. Do you actually live inside the Beltway? Great museums there and food. Scads of family from both Judy?s and my side. One of the last times I visited there, I went to Michelle?s office: She was our representative at the time. She gets around. I have this fantasy brought on by the pandemic and New Mexico?s Blue (Democratic) sweep in 2018 that brought us three kick-ass women: Governor Michelle...Representative Deborah Halland for Albuquerque and surrounds where we live (I canvassed for her in the primary!)?and Representative Xochi Small to the south. All Democrats. The fantasy is that these historic times, this perizhvanie, this Lev budding, will bear fruit in November that gets us through another narrow place. And we will celebrate. Fitting that Passover is tonight, a celebration of liberation from slavery, and a time when we recognize that we are all really strangers, wherever we live. Yikes! Talk about Biblical dialect! It?s as catching as that Corona bug! Must stay well Henry On Apr 8, 2020, at 4:27 PM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. > wrote: I live in Washington, DC, Henry, but my roots here are by way of LCHC in San Diego which begot xlchc which begot xmca. Don?t know why I switched into a biblical dialect, but not hallucinations, just whimsy. And a little tired this evening. Did you notice how my motif in my last post turned unto motive when I sent it? I think it was Leonti?ev sneaking in. The description of your mask seems dashing! Could Judy have alternative (or ulterior) motive (or motif)? Hmmm, just recognized the 5th Dimension wanting into the lineage recital. Still no hallucination just a few sips of a nice Tuscan blend? Peg From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 5:14 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Hey Peg! Yes, I will tell Governor Michelle you?re rooting for her from where you and yours are at! Please forgive my senior moment, but where do YOU live? My wife Judy figured out how to make a mask from a bandana and two hair ties. Like I?m ready to rob the stage coach, full of ppe (personal protective equipment).:) I saw a cartoon of Trump and his underlings at one of his you-can?t-make-it-up briefings. They are wearing masks that cover nose and mouth. Trump has a Lone Ranger mask. Here?s a link for those short on Americana: https://www.pinterest.com/robertharmon311/lone-ranger-mask-patterns-for-save-ranger-challeng/ Stay safe and well! Henry On Apr 8, 2020, at 11:27 AM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. > wrote: Henry, please tell your governor/friend, Michelle Lujan Grisham, ?We see her, we hear her, we love her, and we know we need her.? Groups here that made good use of allies before the pandemic are making good, well-planned use of us now, especially for those in the shadows, by necessity or oversight, to address basic food and medical insecurity. And thank you, too, Henry and others on xmca. Relatively healthy (AKA no Co-vid19 that we know of and well masked ? my favorite right now is an easily washed and bleached homemade one with a blue lamb motive ? anyone need a pdf for making adult or child masks, with or without hepa-filters?) and safe, Peg From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 12:48 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Hi All, Like Greg, I was struck by Andy?s sense that China may go back to ?normal? but the neo-liberal ?first" world is and will be experiencing a profound perizhvanie. You?d hope it will be for the good. In the U.S,, generally, rates of infection are positively correlated with density of population. For example, I live in New Mexico, the fifth largest state in the U.S. with a population of a little over a one million and the lowest rate of infection?so far. However, our Navajo live spread out to the west and north of us, but have very high rates of infection. Little Zia Pueblo, just an our by car to the north and west of us, only has about a thousand people, with eleven confirmed cases. Poverty. In the country as a whole people of color have relatively higher rates of infection. Poverty. Our governor, Michelle Lujan Grisham (who I am proud to say is a good friend), has been successful in pushing baci against Trump?s efforts to punish states that did not vote for him by being less than cooperative in providing resources against the pandemic. She has been using her bully pulpit against Trump's bloviating. His hot air has got to be an infectious agent. Most of us are using masks in public, evidence indicating that it protects OTHERS by wearing them. Trump prefers NOT to wear a mask. Consistent with his politics. You can?t make this up. Be well, Henry On Apr 8, 2020, at 9:00 AM, Greg Thompson > wrote: David, I wonder if you could say more about your experience of the state-based "surveillance" in SK. There are lots of different groups in the U.S., both on the left and the right, who are up in arms about the "tracking" of citizens via credit card and cell phone usage. And it sounds like this is a global concern as Mary's report from SA suggests. Also how interesting how similar the conspiracy theories are around the globe (globalization and the spread of viral ideas?). That's world perezhivanie indeed! -greg On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 3:08 PM David Kellogg > wrote: Helena-- Situation in China, courtesy my sister-in-law: life in Beijing is pretty much back to normal at least on the face of it. People are going out to their work units (but there is more work from home than before the crisis). Classes still largely taught from ZOOM. My nephew is in Shanghai, where the situation is somewhat tighter (proximity to Wuhan). Wuhan opened up for real yesterday--people can leave (I lived there for two years in the mid-eighties, but I can barely recognize what I see on the news now....) I have students in Chengdu (who attend my class via ZOOM). People are mostly shopping on line with delivery to the gate of the housing unit rather than to their flat (as we do here in Korea). Air quality better than it's been in decades. Situation here in South Korea: We just extended our lockdown for another two weeks. This is in response to a few days of new infections over a hundred, but the infections are mostly (80%) Koreans from the US and Europe who want to live in a place where the medical system has not broken down or is not in the process of breaking down. There are still some "hotspots" of community transmission, but these are almost all connected with churches or PC cafes. Schools reopen on the 16th, but only online. We have elections in a week, and there is a lot of campaigning going on, including the usual street based campaigning (the right wing opposition campaigns around the curious notion that the government has done absolutely nothing, and the government ignores everybody who is not an actual virus). People shop in stores, and there is no panic buying or disruption of supply chains. The main changes in economic life seem to have to do with transport, and it seems like this too will be permanent (electric scooters are everywhere now). Bowing instead of shaking hands is really not a bad idea, and coffee-shops always were over-rated and over-priced.... But what about you, Helena? (One of the things I have learned on this list is that you get more or less what you give--people tend to use what you write as a model for writing back!) Are you still in Vietnam? Your address says Berkeley and your email says Illinois--those are three very different venues for the virus and the economy. Can you give us a brief account of the situation in each? Stay safe, wherever you are! David Kellogg Sangmyung University Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational action research in Mind Culture and Activity https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 Some free e-prints available at: https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 4:30 AM Martin Packer > wrote: Hi Helena, I share your concerns. And, despite its challenges, this situation seems a great opportunity to apply our distributed expertise(s). I tried to get some discussion going in a group concerned with the Anthropocene, but people seemed disinclined. Martin Here?s the first message that I sent? The current situation is producing important evidence about the probable consequences of the strategies proposed to mitigate climate change. Satellites are showing significant reductions in pollution: https://www.space.com/italy-coronavirus-outbreak-response-reduces-emissions-satellite-images.html Experts are suggesting that as a result the coronavirus may save more lives than it takes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2020/03/11/coronavirus-lockdown-may-save-more-lives-from-pollution-and-climate-than-from-virus/#4a39bb3c5764 So when skeptics ask ?How can you know that reducing air travel will help with climate change?? there is now clear evidence with which to answer them. Also in China: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/04/811019032/why-chinas-air-has-been-cleaner-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak At the same time, I am starting to wonder whether the current health guidelines regarding coronvirus are culturally biased. Can they work in ?collectivist? cultures (to use the shorthand)? The CDC guidelines, for example, include the recommendations to ?Stay home when you are sick,? but also that other members of the household should ?Avoid close contact with people who are sick? and should ?Choose a room in your home that can be used to separate sick household members from those who are healthy. Identify a separate bathroom for the sick person to use, if possible.? This advice is simply not practicable for many households in Colombia. There are not enough rooms; there is no second bathroom. In addition, many infants and young children here are cared for by grandparents, or even great-grandparents (many women here have a baby when young, so an infant may have a grandmother who is in her late 30s and a great-grandmother in her late 50s). The evidence shows that children don?t become very ill, but they do get infected and they can infect other people, among whom elderly caregivers will be the most at risk. So I don?t think social distance and auto-quarantine will work in Colombia. Consider what the Chinese did: they went door-to-door to identify infected family members and removed them to massive collective quarantine setttings. People in the West considered this to be draconian, even cruel. But it made sense: much more cross-infection occurred in Chinese homes than in places like restaurants. Unless the authorities can come up with strategies that are more appropriate to local circumstances and practices, there is likely to be a rapid and elevated peak of infections in Latin American countries. And I see there is a related point here, on ageism: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200313155256.htm On Apr 7, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Helena Worthen > wrote: Hello, XMCA-ers - I don?t remember ever having read that this list was going to shut down or even be allowed to fade away. So now I?m writing, as if in the dark, to the whole list. We?ve now got a major ? maybe ?the? major crisis of the anthropocene on our hands and the distant but connected network represented by the conversations on this list seem to me to be a treasure more precious than gold - and I?m not speaking metaphorically. I am concerned about some of the people who have been pillars and resources on his list, people whom I have reached out to over the years and heard back from with information and perspectives that I would never have been able to access on my own. Where are you now? What are you doing? Are you safe and healthy? Do you have information about friends who are unable to read or respond to this request? I hope to hear some responses to this message. Take care of yourselves, please ? Helena Helena Worthen hworthen@illinois.edu 21 San Mateo Road, Berkeley, CA 94707 -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson -- Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a landslide. Roy D'Andrade --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200411/c08bc4e5/attachment.html From dkellogg60@gmail.com Sat Apr 11 20:05:21 2020 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 12:05:21 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Scalability and Transitional Programmes Message-ID: Greg-- You still didn't really reply to my last one, about the civil liberties issue. I caught some heat off-list for addressing it too specifically to you--the references to "heung" [fun interests] and "han" [tragic interest], you know. When someone does "insa" you have to 'insa' back!. But actually, I think that civil liberties issue can be usefully expanded on, in response to your own replies to the Latour Questions. I think that in looking for discontinuable activities, we do well to keep in mind scalability, as you did. But I also think that scalability is related to transitionality, an issue that has come up before. A transitional programme is one that starts small. So for example when you have unemployment, you demand a shorter workweek (as in France) at no loss in pay (as not in France). When you have inflation, you demand a COLA (as in the USA) which cannot be passed on to the consumer (as not in the USA). As Ed (Wall) said, online teaching (and online communting) is the thin edge of a very nasty wedge. You acknowledge this when you talk about the disadvantages of eliminating the distance commute in Utah. It's not just that the solution isn't readily scalable. It's that it's very easily co-opted by efforts to fire teachers and turn classrooms over to those who have already mastered the transition to self-instruction. When I did the questionnaire (on the website, as the designers intended), I advocated smaller classes (as in tertiary education) at no loss in teaching expertise or teaching compensation (as not in tertiary education). I see this as a transitional programme--one that is scalable, but also one that, precisely through the process of scaling, will eventually cast doubt on a basic premise of the pre-crisis order (that is, on the idea that it is possible or even desirable to replace education with self-instruction). David Kellogg Sangmyung University Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of *Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational action research' in Mind Culture and Activity* https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 Some free e-prints available at: https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200412/faa78635/attachment.html From annalie.pistorius@smu.ac.za Sun Apr 12 01:19:28 2020 From: annalie.pistorius@smu.ac.za (Annalie Pistorius) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 10:19:28 +0200 (SAST) Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <037001d610a3$0c978aa0$25c69fe0$@smu.ac.za> Hello, About the listserve technicalities - I see that I am receiving Greg?s reply to Liz first, and then Elizabeth?s reply to me later, which Greg replied to, making it appear that came first. Seeing your speech coming back at you from another source. A loop we perhaps will have to accept, because of having to radically accept our internet servers and the scrambling of sequences? About the topic, Latour and how our students and patients and us too have to change with our interventions and insist that the world does that with us, I am interested in developing our thoughts on this. There are a lot on this already ? how we need an emotional revolution ? with contributors from Fromm, Social therapy (Newman and Holzman) based on Vygotsky, Marx and Wittgenstein, and also from Silfe on radical relationality. It all is part of what this list-serve is about. Non-dualist and fluid development. Annalie From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu On Behalf Of Greg Thompson Sent: Sunday, 12 April 2020 12:47 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in Two more notes, one on the list-serve and a question for Liz Fein: 1. I frequently will get responses to a thread that will not be included with the thread (Liz' response was one such response). Also, I did not get Beth Ferholt's initial email either. 2. Liz! You said that your students are increasingly feeling a pull toward the question: "how we can change psychotherapies to be social and revolutionary so that patients can insist that people in their worlds change with them?" That sounds to me like a fantastic question. Even without the political import (which I applaud), this goes right to the heart of what I like to think is a central episteme of CHAT - the inseparability of figure/ground (of form/content, substance/style, etc.) - esp. with regard to the sacrosanct and inviolate ("hypostatized" as some anthros like to say) individual psychological subject. And so I'd love to hear more about your on-the-ground-experiences of this. Assuming that there are some common threads among your students, can you say what kinds of revolutions your students feel pulled toward? In other words, HOW do they imagine the world changing "with" their patients? What kinds of changes do they see as necessary? I'm a pessimist about these kinds of things, so what you describe gives me a glimmer of hope! -greg On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 11:58 AM Dr. Elizabeth Fein > wrote: Hello Annalie - I am thinking about this question a lot also: "how we can change psychotherapies to be social and revolutionary so that patients can insist that people in their worlds change with them?" Many of the graduate students that I supervise on their psychotherapy cases feel an ongoing pull in this direction, and we talk and write about it often, but it often feels hard to get traction around instantiating it in our work, even as the in-house clinic within our department is very flexible and open to many different explorations. I am listening with you. Elizabeth On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 10:01 AM Annalie Pistorius < annalie.pistorius@smu.ac.za> wrote: Hi im still here with you. Sitting together is something to do. Our university had shut down before the lockdown here in South Africa ? our students and SRC being medical students have taken charge the way they usually do. I must say they always impress me, how they can manoeuvre all staff when there is a leadership crisis. However now with the Corona world crisis, I am impressed how everyone here including our leaders stand firm and together, herding us and being giving to poor communities. I watch BBC world news almost every day, and was impressed to see that even in Cape Town our gang members have started using their leadership to organise and direct the handing out of food parcels to their community members. Of cause, not everyone is seeing all of this as positive as I am painting it here. I am reminded of the bitter sweetness of the situation, by my patient (with whom I am doing psychotherapy sessions on my cell phone at a very high cost, don?t ask me why not on internet), that his problem of stress, headaches and severe depression is dissolving because he is not at work. No-one shouting into his ears, the voices of critique fading?Now what should be done so that when he goes back his problem continues to dissolve? Is this our moment to build onto? ? how we can change psychotherapies to be social and revolutionary so that patients can insist that people in their worlds change with them? That?s why I am here listening. Greetings Annalie From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu < xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> On Behalf Of Alfredo Jornet Gil Sent: Saturday, 11 April 2020 10:58 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity < xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? The list of xmca members is indeed long! Here is a link to the list: http://lchc-resources.org/xmca/subscriber_list.php Alfredo From: < xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> on behalf of Helena Worthen < helenaworthen@gmail.com> Reply to: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" < xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu> Date: Friday, 10 April 2020 at 22:11 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" < xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? This is a gracefully written New Yorker-worthy piece of dark dystopian fiction. I would like to start up the whole Utopia discussion again, which I never felt clamped its teeth down hard enough.Thanks, David. I am seeing responses from David Kellogg, Peg Griffin, Mike Cole, Greg Thompson, Rein Raud in Estonia, David Kirshner, Ed Wall, Henry Shoner, Andy Blunden, Martin Packer in Bogota, Richard Beach ? who did I miss? There are more of us out there. I worry about Haydi in Iran. I am swamped with Zoom, telephone and email. Rather than clog up this list I?ll re-visit my blog (below) just in case anyone reads it ? this is with regards to the price of vegetables, David Kellogg. Other than that: the book about contingency goes back through 4 past transitions in higher education: standardization (Carnegie, SATs etc); expansion (the GI bill); the Movement era (civil rights, 1968, etc) and then the neoliberal contraction, for which the explosion of contingency (no job security/no academic freedom, crap wages) was a solution to a set of interlocking administrative problems. WE then go into a lot of detail about what organizing unions for faculty and campus workers in higher education is like. Thanks for asking, David. I?m doing Zoom piano lessons for grandchildren, in hopes that they will come out of this with at least one skill that is useful to humanity. Also working with DSA (Democratic Socialists of America) to lead reading groups about the recent wave of teacher strikes. Still owe Andy a review of his Hegel book; thanks for uploading the difference between Hegel and Marx paper, Andy. There are still some more xmca-ers out there that haven't checked in. Helena Worthen 21 San MAteo Road, Berkeley 94707 510-828-2745 helenaworthen.wordpress.com On Apr 10, 2020, at 12:39 PM, mike cole < mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote: The new samizdat, David? mike On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 10:31 AM David H Kirshner < dkirsh@lsu.edu> wrote: Here?s a fictional reminder of what more may be at stake in the current political era. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/04/06/love-letter David From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu < xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> On Behalf Of Peg Griffin, Ph.D. Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 11:55 AM To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' < xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Henry, Only thing I know for sure about any bill is this: If it doesn?t serve well the top 1%, then McConnell won?t have it come to the floor for a vote in the Senate, so many reasonably good bills are never enacted and no Senator or President need be held accountable about their opposition. But, what I know about intersectional groups in the past few years is that we have to reach out in any and all ways possible to be sure we do not step on each other?s messages, actions, and needs, and to be sure we have ways of getting and giving timely support as allies. It sounds wimpy for a bumper sticker, but I wish I had one that said ?Protect Fragile Solidarity!? I think we may be inching in that awkward direction though: SPLC has normalized the bumper sticker, ?Restore the Vote.? Peg From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [ mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 12:05 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity < xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Peg, I really don?t know anymore about life on the Rez now than what I read on line, what I have heard on Native America Calling on our local public radio station KUNM and what I hear from my Navajo Family near Shiprock. So far, no one in my family there is sick. I have no insider information that might help pull the right strings in DC. Deb Haaland sends out regular bulletins describing what she is doing to benefit all New Mexicans, no specific mention of what?s happening on the Navajo. You know more about the bills than I do! Henry On Apr 9, 2020, at 2:36 PM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. < Peg.Griffin@att.net> wrote: Henry, may I ask you to discuss Co-Vid 19 in the Navajo Nation? From news reports the Nation seems to be proactive, trying new and old ways of proceeding. But, in comparison to nearby states, more and deeper problems faced with fewer and less stable resources? DC got robbed in the second bailout bill ? way underfunded. Plans are getting formed and deformed about pushing for fixes in the next bill (now in messes in both House and Senate). Do you know if there are any Navajo plans that DC folk can support, maybe learn from (or at least stop from inadvertently stepping on?) Is staff in Deb Haaland?s office in the HOB a good place to try to find out or ?? A good fantasy about November, Henry. Somehow, it reminds me of the early days in the Fifth Dimension. The children engaged in transformational journeys, taking their avatars through rooms in a table top maze, choosing which of several openings they would use as entry and eventual exit, choosing which of different tasks in the room to do (harder tasks coupled with more choice over which exits from room they could use), collaborating with peers and lovely Big Sisters and Brothers, and there was always the Wizard ?guardian or trickster or sometimes asleep at the wheel. At an exit, avatars transformed and children went to the creature store to pick the token of the transformation to travel with if they chose to enter the 5th D again. But there was also a different world with university and public school calendars and rites of passage. At times for seams important to that world, the children got shirts screen-printed with words ranging from ?I conquered the 5thdimension? ?I barely survived the 5th Dimension? ?I almost survived the 5th Dimension? and so on ?I?m in the middle? ?I?m just starting?? A child reviewed the prior period of time, negotiating which words would be on their shirt. (Of all the weird things in the 5th D, Mike laughs best about the carefully differentiated shirts.) So, how about you and I in the here(s) and now(s)? We make choice after choice after choice and work hard at enough to transform the current elected officials to try to choose better creatures as we exit this iteration of a government and enter again for choices and tasks in the next iteration. Concurrently, we have to keep our eye on the prize of the CoVid 19 pandemic world and survival in it. BTW, I do live inside the Beltway ? 12 blocks north and east of Union Station. The museums, the food, and the HOBs (House Office Buildings) ? as well as the SOBs across the capitol park ? all nearby, familiar sites of camaraderie for efforts, some successful and some not so much. Peg From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [ mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 7:52 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity < xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? I was born at Mercy Hospital in Washington DC. Do you actually live inside the Beltway? Great museums there and food. Scads of family from both Judy?s and my side. One of the last times I visited there, I went to Michelle?s office: She was our representative at the time. She gets around. I have this fantasy brought on by the pandemic and New Mexico?s Blue (Democratic) sweep in 2018 that brought us three kick-ass women: Governor Michelle...Representative Deborah Halland for Albuquerque and surrounds where we live (I canvassed for her in the primary!)?and Representative Xochi Small to the south. All Democrats. The fantasy is that these historic times, this perizhvanie, this Lev budding, will bear fruit in November that gets us through another narrow place. And we will celebrate. Fitting that Passover is tonight, a celebration of liberation from slavery, and a time when we recognize that we are all really strangers, wherever we live. Yikes! Talk about Biblical dialect! It?s as catching as that Corona bug! Must stay well Henry On Apr 8, 2020, at 4:27 PM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. < Peg.Griffin@att.net> wrote: I live in Washington, DC, Henry, but my roots here are by way of LCHC in San Diego which begot xlchc which begot xmca. Don?t know why I switched into a biblical dialect, but not hallucinations, just whimsy. And a little tired this evening. Did you notice how my motif in my last post turned unto motive when I sent it? I think it was Leonti?ev sneaking in. The description of your mask seems dashing! Could Judy have alternative (or ulterior) motive (or motif)? Hmmm, just recognized the 5th Dimension wanting into the lineage recital. Still no hallucination just a few sips of a nice Tuscan blend? Peg From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [ mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 5:14 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity < xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Hey Peg! Yes, I will tell Governor Michelle you?re rooting for her from where you and yours are at! Please forgive my senior moment, but where do YOU live? My wife Judy figured out how to make a mask from a bandana and two hair ties. Like I?m ready to rob the stage coach, full of ppe (personal protective equipment).:) I saw a cartoon of Trump and his underlings at one of his you-can?t-make-it-up briefings. They are wearing masks that cover nose and mouth. Trump has a Lone Ranger mask. Here?s a link for those short on Americana: https://www.pinterest.com/robertharmon311/lone-ranger-mask-patterns-for-save-ranger-challeng/ Stay safe and well! Henry On Apr 8, 2020, at 11:27 AM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. < Peg.Griffin@att.net> wrote: Henry, please tell your governor/friend, Michelle Lujan Grisham, ?We see her, we hear her, we love her, and we know we need her.? Groups here that made good use of allies before the pandemic are making good, well-planned use of us now, especially for those in the shadows, by necessity or oversight, to address basic food and medical insecurity. And thank you, too, Henry and others on xmca. Relatively healthy (AKA no Co-vid19 that we know of and well masked ? my favorite right now is an easily washed and bleached homemade one with a blue lamb motive ? anyone need a pdf for making adult or child masks, with or without hepa-filters?) and safe, Peg From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [ mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 12:48 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity < xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Hi All, Like Greg, I was struck by Andy?s sense that China may go back to ?normal? but the neo-liberal ?first" world is and will be experiencing a profound perizhvanie. You?d hope it will be for the good. In the U.S,, generally, rates of infection are positively correlated with density of population. For example, I live in New Mexico, the fifth largest state in the U.S. with a population of a little over a one million and the lowest rate of infection?so far. However, our Navajo live spread out to the west and north of us, but have very high rates of infection. Little Zia Pueblo, just an our by car to the north and west of us, only has about a thousand people, with eleven confirmed cases. Poverty. In the country as a whole people of color have relatively higher rates of infection. Poverty. Our governor, Michelle Lujan Grisham (who I am proud to say is a good friend), has been successful in pushing baci against Trump?s efforts to punish states that did not vote for him by being less than cooperative in providing resources against the pandemic. She has been using her bully pulpit against Trump's bloviating. His hot air has got to be an infectious agent. Most of us are using masks in public, evidence indicating that it protects OTHERS by wearing them. Trump prefers NOT to wear a mask. Consistent with his politics. You can?t make this up. Be well, Henry On Apr 8, 2020, at 9:00 AM, Greg Thompson < greg.a.thompson@gmail.com> wrote: David, I wonder if you could say more about your experience of the state-based "surveillance" in SK. There are lots of different groups in the U.S., both on the left and the right, who are up in arms about the "tracking" of citizens via credit card and cell phone usage. And it sounds like this is a global concern as Mary's report from SA suggests. Also how interesting how similar the conspiracy theories are around the globe (globalization and the spread of viral ideas?). That's world perezhivanie indeed! -greg On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 3:08 PM David Kellogg < dkellogg60@gmail.com> wrote: Helena-- Situation in China, courtesy my sister-in-law: life in Beijing is pretty much back to normal at least on the face of it. People are going out to their work units (but there is more work from home than before the crisis). Classes still largely taught from ZOOM. My nephew is in Shanghai, where the situation is somewhat tighter (proximity to Wuhan). Wuhan opened up for real yesterday--people can leave (I lived there for two years in the mid-eighties, but I can barely recognize what I see on the news now....) I have students in Chengdu (who attend my class via ZOOM). People are mostly shopping on line with delivery to the gate of the housing unit rather than to their flat (as we do here in Korea). Air quality better than it's been in decades. Situation here in South Korea: We just extended our lockdown for another two weeks. This is in response to a few days of new infections over a hundred, but the infections are mostly (80%) Koreans from the US and Europe who want to live in a place where the medical system has not broken down or is not in the process of breaking down. There are still some "hotspots" of community transmission, but these are almost all connected with churches or PC cafes. Schools reopen on the 16th, but only online. We have elections in a week, and there is a lot of campaigning going on, including the usual street based campaigning (the right wing opposition campaigns around the curious notion that the government has done absolutely nothing, and the government ignores everybody who is not an actual virus). People shop in stores, and there is no panic buying or disruption of supply chains. The main changes in economic life seem to have to do with transport, and it seems like this too will be permanent (electric scooters are everywhere now). Bowing instead of shaking hands is really not a bad idea, and coffee-shops always were over-rated and over-priced.... But what about you, Helena? (One of the things I have learned on this list is that you get more or less what you give--people tend to use what you write as a model for writing back!) Are you still in Vietnam? Your address says Berkeley and your email says Illinois--those are three very different venues for the virus and the economy. Can you give us a brief account of the situation in each? Stay safe, wherever you are! David Kellogg Sangmyung University Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational action research in Mind Culture and Activity https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 Some free e-prints available at: https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 4:30 AM Martin Packer < mpacker@cantab.net> wrote: Hi Helena, I share your concerns. And, despite its challenges, this situation seems a great opportunity to apply our distributed expertise(s). I tried to get some discussion going in a group concerned with the Anthropocene, but people seemed disinclined. Martin Here?s the first message that I sent? The current situation is producing important evidence about the probable consequences of the strategies proposed to mitigate climate change. Satellites are showing significant reductions in pollution: https://www.space.com/italy-coronavirus-outbreak-response-reduces-emissions-satellite-images.html Experts are suggesting that as a result the coronavirus may save more lives than it takes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2020/03/11/coronavirus-lockdown-may-save-more-lives-from-pollution-and-climate-than-from-virus/#4a39bb3c5764 So when skeptics ask ?How can you know that reducing air travel will help with climate change?? there is now clear evidence with which to answer them. Also in China: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/04/811019032/why-chinas-air-has-been-cleaner-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak At the same time, I am starting to wonder whether the current health guidelines regarding coronvirus are culturally biased. Can they work in ?collectivist? cultures (to use the shorthand)? The CDC guidelines, for example, include the recommendations to ?Stay home when you are sick,? but also that other members of the household should ?Avoid close contact with people who are sick? and should ?Choose a room in your home that can be used to separate sick household members from those who are healthy. Identify a separate bathroom for the sick person to use, if possible.? This advice is simply not practicable for many households in Colombia. There are not enough rooms; there is no second bathroom. In addition, many infants and young children here are cared for by grandparents, or even great-grandparents (many women here have a baby when young, so an infant may have a grandmother who is in her late 30s and a great-grandmother in her late 50s). The evidence shows that children don?t become very ill, but they do get infected and they can infect other people, among whom elderly caregivers will be the most at risk. So I don?t think social distance and auto-quarantine will work in Colombia. Consider what the Chinese did: they went door-to-door to identify infected family members and removed them to massive collective quarantine setttings. People in the West considered this to be draconian, even cruel. But it made sense: much more cross-infection occurred in Chinese homes than in places like restaurants. Unless the authorities can come up with strategies that are more appropriate to local circumstances and practices, there is likely to be a rapid and elevated peak of infections in Latin American countries. And I see there is a related point here, on ageism: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200313155256.htm On Apr 7, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Helena Worthen < helenaworthen@gmail.com> wrote: Hello, XMCA-ers - I don?t remember ever having read that this list was going to shut down or even be allowed to fade away. So now I?m writing, as if in the dark, to the whole list. We?ve now got a major ? maybe ?the? major crisis of the anthropocene on our hands and the distant but connected network represented by the conversations on this list seem to me to be a treasure more precious than gold - and I?m not speaking metaphorically. I am concerned about some of the people who have been pillars and resources on his list, people whom I have reached out to over the years and heard back from with information and perspectives that I would never have been able to access on my own. Where are you now? What are you doing? Are you safe and healthy? Do you have information about friends who are unable to read or respond to this request? I hope to hear some responses to this message. Take care of yourselves, please ? Helena Helena Worthen hworthen@illinois.edu 21 San Mateo Road, Berkeley, CA 94707 -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson -- Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a landslide. Roy D'Andrade --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200412/e35bc8d4/attachment.html From annalie.pistorius@smu.ac.za Sun Apr 12 01:26:26 2020 From: annalie.pistorius@smu.ac.za (Annalie Pistorius) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 10:26:26 +0200 (SAST) Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <037a01d610a4$0340fd00$09c2f700$@smu.ac.za> Hi Elizabeth, I agree with Greg. Please share more about your work with students, where you are and the context of your work. I am also training clinical psychology students, and incorporated social therapy (and Vygotsky and Marx) into my lecturing and practicum on post-modern psychotherapies and group psychotherapy. Some students really pick up on the social side of therapy practices. I would love to collaborate and share. Annalie From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu On Behalf Of Dr. Elizabeth Fein Sent: Saturday, 11 April 2020 7:56 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] General check-in Hello Annalie - I am thinking about this question a lot also: "how we can change psychotherapies to be social and revolutionary so that patients can insist that people in their worlds change with them?" Many of the graduate students that I supervise on their psychotherapy cases feel an ongoing pull in this direction, and we talk and write about it often, but it often feels hard to get traction around instantiating it in our work, even as the in-house clinic within our department is very flexible and open to many different explorations. I am listening with you. Elizabeth On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 10:01 AM Annalie Pistorius > wrote: Hi im still here with you. Sitting together is something to do. Our university had shut down before the lockdown here in South Africa - our students and SRC being medical students have taken charge the way they usually do. I must say they always impress me, how they can manoeuvre all staff when there is a leadership crisis. However now with the Corona world crisis, I am impressed how everyone here including our leaders stand firm and together, herding us and being giving to poor communities. I watch BBC world news almost every day, and was impressed to see that even in Cape Town our gang members have started using their leadership to organise and direct the handing out of food parcels to their community members. Of cause, not everyone is seeing all of this as positive as I am painting it here. I am reminded of the bitter sweetness of the situation, by my patient (with whom I am doing psychotherapy sessions on my cell phone at a very high cost, don't ask me why not on internet), that his problem of stress, headaches and severe depression is dissolving because he is not at work. No-one shouting into his ears, the voices of critique fading.Now what should be done so that when he goes back his problem continues to dissolve? Is this our moment to build onto? - how we can change psychotherapies to be social and revolutionary so that patients can insist that people in their worlds change with them? That's why I am here listening. Greetings Annalie From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > On Behalf Of Alfredo Jornet Gil Sent: Saturday, 11 April 2020 10:58 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? The list of xmca members is indeed long! Here is a link to the list: http://lchc-resources.org/xmca/subscriber_list.php Alfredo From: > on behalf of Helena Worthen > Reply to: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Date: Friday, 10 April 2020 at 22:11 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? This is a gracefully written New Yorker-worthy piece of dark dystopian fiction. I would like to start up the whole Utopia discussion again, which I never felt clamped its teeth down hard enough.Thanks, David. I am seeing responses from David Kellogg, Peg Griffin, Mike Cole, Greg Thompson, Rein Raud in Estonia, David Kirshner, Ed Wall, Henry Shoner, Andy Blunden, Martin Packer in Bogota, Richard Beach - who did I miss? There are more of us out there. I worry about Haydi in Iran. I am swamped with Zoom, telephone and email. Rather than clog up this list I'll re-visit my blog (below) just in case anyone reads it - this is with regards to the price of vegetables, David Kellogg. Other than that: the book about contingency goes back through 4 past transitions in higher education: standardization (Carnegie, SATs etc); expansion (the GI bill); the Movement era (civil rights, 1968, etc) and then the neoliberal contraction, for which the explosion of contingency (no job security/no academic freedom, crap wages) was a solution to a set of interlocking administrative problems. WE then go into a lot of detail about what organizing unions for faculty and campus workers in higher education is like. Thanks for asking, David. I'm doing Zoom piano lessons for grandchildren, in hopes that they will come out of this with at least one skill that is useful to humanity. Also working with DSA (Democratic Socialists of America) to lead reading groups about the recent wave of teacher strikes. Still owe Andy a review of his Hegel book; thanks for uploading the difference between Hegel and Marx paper, Andy. There are still some more xmca-ers out there that haven't checked in. Helena Worthen 21 San MAteo Road, Berkeley 94707 510-828-2745 helenaworthen.wordpress.com On Apr 10, 2020, at 12:39 PM, mike cole > wrote: The new samizdat, David? mike On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 10:31 AM David H Kirshner > wrote: Here's a fictional reminder of what more may be at stake in the current political era. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/04/06/love-letter David From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > On Behalf Of Peg Griffin, Ph.D. Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 11:55 AM To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Henry, Only thing I know for sure about any bill is this: If it doesn't serve well the top 1%, then McConnell won't have it come to the floor for a vote in the Senate, so many reasonably good bills are never enacted and no Senator or President need be held accountable about their opposition. But, what I know about intersectional groups in the past few years is that we have to reach out in any and all ways possible to be sure we do not step on each other's messages, actions, and needs, and to be sure we have ways of getting and giving timely support as allies. It sounds wimpy for a bumper sticker, but I wish I had one that said "Protect Fragile Solidarity!" I think we may be inching in that awkward direction though: SPLC has normalized the bumper sticker, "Restore the Vote." Peg From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 12:05 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Peg, I really don't know anymore about life on the Rez now than what I read on line, what I have heard on Native America Calling on our local public radio station KUNM and what I hear from my Navajo Family near Shiprock. So far, no one in my family there is sick. I have no insider information that might help pull the right strings in DC. Deb Haaland sends out regular bulletins describing what she is doing to benefit all New Mexicans, no specific mention of what's happening on the Navajo. You know more about the bills than I do! Henry On Apr 9, 2020, at 2:36 PM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. > wrote: Henry, may I ask you to discuss Co-Vid 19 in the Navajo Nation? From news reports the Nation seems to be proactive, trying new and old ways of proceeding. But, in comparison to nearby states, more and deeper problems faced with fewer and less stable resources? DC got robbed in the second bailout bill - way underfunded. Plans are getting formed and deformed about pushing for fixes in the next bill (now in messes in both House and Senate). Do you know if there are any Navajo plans that DC folk can support, maybe learn from (or at least stop from inadvertently stepping on?) Is staff in Deb Haaland's office in the HOB a good place to try to find out or .? A good fantasy about November, Henry. Somehow, it reminds me of the early days in the Fifth Dimension. The children engaged in transformational journeys, taking their avatars through rooms in a table top maze, choosing which of several openings they would use as entry and eventual exit, choosing which of different tasks in the room to do (harder tasks coupled with more choice over which exits from room they could use), collaborating with peers and lovely Big Sisters and Brothers, and there was always the Wizard -guardian or trickster or sometimes asleep at the wheel. At an exit, avatars transformed and children went to the creature store to pick the token of the transformation to travel with if they chose to enter the 5th D again. But there was also a different world with university and public school calendars and rites of passage. At times for seams important to that world, the children got shirts screen-printed with words ranging from "I conquered the 5thdimension" "I barely survived the 5th Dimension" "I almost survived the 5th Dimension" and so on "I'm in the middle. "I'm just starting." A child reviewed the prior period of time, negotiating which words would be on their shirt. (Of all the weird things in the 5th D, Mike laughs best about the carefully differentiated shirts.) So, how about you and I in the here(s) and now(s)? We make choice after choice after choice and work hard at enough to transform the current elected officials to try to choose better creatures as we exit this iteration of a government and enter again for choices and tasks in the next iteration. Concurrently, we have to keep our eye on the prize of the CoVid 19 pandemic world and survival in it. BTW, I do live inside the Beltway - 12 blocks north and east of Union Station. The museums, the food, and the HOBs (House Office Buildings) - as well as the SOBs across the capitol park - all nearby, familiar sites of camaraderie for efforts, some successful and some not so much. Peg From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [ mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 7:52 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity < xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? I was born at Mercy Hospital in Washington DC. Do you actually live inside the Beltway? Great museums there and food. Scads of family from both Judy's and my side. One of the last times I visited there, I went to Michelle's office: She was our representative at the time. She gets around. I have this fantasy brought on by the pandemic and New Mexico's Blue (Democratic) sweep in 2018 that brought us three kick-ass women: Governor Michelle...Representative Deborah Halland for Albuquerque and surrounds where we live (I canvassed for her in the primary!).and Representative Xochi Small to the south. All Democrats. The fantasy is that these historic times, this perizhvanie, this Lev budding, will bear fruit in November that gets us through another narrow place. And we will celebrate. Fitting that Passover is tonight, a celebration of liberation from slavery, and a time when we recognize that we are all really strangers, wherever we live. Yikes! Talk about Biblical dialect! It's as catching as that Corona bug! Must stay well Henry On Apr 8, 2020, at 4:27 PM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. < Peg.Griffin@att.net> wrote: I live in Washington, DC, Henry, but my roots here are by way of LCHC in San Diego which begot xlchc which begot xmca. Don't know why I switched into a biblical dialect, but not hallucinations, just whimsy. And a little tired this evening. Did you notice how my motif in my last post turned unto motive when I sent it? I think it was Leonti'ev sneaking in. The description of your mask seems dashing! Could Judy have alternative (or ulterior) motive (or motif)? Hmmm, just recognized the 5th Dimension wanting into the lineage recital. Still no hallucination just a few sips of a nice Tuscan blend. Peg From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [ mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 5:14 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity < xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Hey Peg! Yes, I will tell Governor Michelle you're rooting for her from where you and yours are at! Please forgive my senior moment, but where do YOU live? My wife Judy figured out how to make a mask from a bandana and two hair ties. Like I'm ready to rob the stage coach, full of ppe (personal protective equipment).:) I saw a cartoon of Trump and his underlings at one of his you-can't-make-it-up briefings. They are wearing masks that cover nose and mouth. Trump has a Lone Ranger mask. Here's a link for those short on Americana: https://www.pinterest.com/robertharmon311/lone-ranger-mask-patterns-for-sa ve-ranger-challeng/ Stay safe and well! Henry On Apr 8, 2020, at 11:27 AM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. < Peg.Griffin@att.net> wrote: Henry, please tell your governor/friend, Michelle Lujan Grisham, "We see her, we hear her, we love her, and we know we need her." Groups here that made good use of allies before the pandemic are making good, well-planned use of us now, especially for those in the shadows, by necessity or oversight, to address basic food and medical insecurity. And thank you, too, Henry and others on xmca. Relatively healthy (AKA no Co-vid19 that we know of and well masked - my favorite right now is an easily washed and bleached homemade one with a blue lamb motive - anyone need a pdf for making adult or child masks, with or without hepa-filters?) and safe, Peg From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [ mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 12:48 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity < xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Hi All, Like Greg, I was struck by Andy's sense that China may go back to "normal" but the neo-liberal "first" world is and will be experiencing a profound perizhvanie. You'd hope it will be for the good. In the U.S,, generally, rates of infection are positively correlated with density of population. For example, I live in New Mexico, the fifth largest state in the U.S. with a population of a little over a one million and the lowest rate of infection.so far. However, our Navajo live spread out to the west and north of us, but have very high rates of infection. Little Zia Pueblo, just an our by car to the north and west of us, only has about a thousand people, with eleven confirmed cases. Poverty. In the country as a whole people of color have relatively higher rates of infection. Poverty. Our governor, Michelle Lujan Grisham (who I am proud to say is a good friend), has been successful in pushing baci against Trump's efforts to punish states that did not vote for him by being less than cooperative in providing resources against the pandemic. She has been using her bully pulpit against Trump's bloviating. His hot air has got to be an infectious agent. Most of us are using masks in public, evidence indicating that it protects OTHERS by wearing them. Trump prefers NOT to wear a mask. Consistent with his politics. You can't make this up. Be well, Henry On Apr 8, 2020, at 9:00 AM, Greg Thompson < greg.a.thompson@gmail.com> wrote: David, I wonder if you could say more about your experience of the state-based "surveillance" in SK. There are lots of different groups in the U.S., both on the left and the right, who are up in arms about the "tracking" of citizens via credit card and cell phone usage. And it sounds like this is a global concern as Mary's report from SA suggests. Also how interesting how similar the conspiracy theories are around the globe (globalization and the spread of viral ideas?). That's world perezhivanie indeed! -greg On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 3:08 PM David Kellogg < dkellogg60@gmail.com> wrote: Helena-- Situation in China, courtesy my sister-in-law: life in Beijing is pretty much back to normal at least on the face of it. People are going out to their work units (but there is more work from home than before the crisis). Classes still largely taught from ZOOM. My nephew is in Shanghai, where the situation is somewhat tighter (proximity to Wuhan). Wuhan opened up for real yesterday--people can leave (I lived there for two years in the mid-eighties, but I can barely recognize what I see on the news now....) I have students in Chengdu (who attend my class via ZOOM). People are mostly shopping on line with delivery to the gate of the housing unit rather than to their flat (as we do here in Korea). Air quality better than it's been in decades. Situation here in South Korea: We just extended our lockdown for another two weeks. This is in response to a few days of new infections over a hundred, but the infections are mostly (80%) Koreans from the US and Europe who want to live in a place where the medical system has not broken down or is not in the process of breaking down. There are still some "hotspots" of community transmission, but these are almost all connected with churches or PC cafes. Schools reopen on the 16th, but only online. We have elections in a week, and there is a lot of campaigning going on, including the usual street based campaigning (the right wing opposition campaigns around the curious notion that the government has done absolutely nothing, and the government ignores everybody who is not an actual virus). People shop in stores, and there is no panic buying or disruption of supply chains. The main changes in economic life seem to have to do with transport, and it seems like this too will be permanent (electric scooters are everywhere now). Bowing instead of shaking hands is really not a bad idea, and coffee-shops always were over-rated and over-priced.... But what about you, Helena? (One of the things I have learned on this list is that you get more or less what you give--people tend to use what you write as a model for writing back!) Are you still in Vietnam? Your address says Berkeley and your email says Illinois--those are three very different venues for the virus and the economy. Can you give us a brief account of the situation in each? Stay safe, wherever you are! David Kellogg Sangmyung University Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational action research in Mind Culture and Activity https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 Some free e-prints available at: https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.108 0/10749039.2020.1745847 New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 4:30 AM Martin Packer < mpacker@cantab.net> wrote: Hi Helena, I share your concerns. And, despite its challenges, this situation seems a great opportunity to apply our distributed expertise(s). I tried to get some discussion going in a group concerned with the Anthropocene, but people seemed disinclined. Martin Here's the first message that I sent. The current situation is producing important evidence about the probable consequences of the strategies proposed to mitigate climate change. Satellites are showing significant reductions in pollution: https://www.space.com/italy-coronavirus-outbreak-response-reduces-emission s-satellite-images.html Experts are suggesting that as a result the coronavirus may save more lives than it takes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2020/03/11/coronavirus-lockdown-m ay-save-more-lives-from-pollution-and-climate-than-from-virus/#4a39bb3c576 4 So when skeptics ask "How can you know that reducing air travel will help with climate change?" there is now clear evidence with which to answer them. Also in China: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/04/811019032/why-chinas- air-has-been-cleaner-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak At the same time, I am starting to wonder whether the current health guidelines regarding coronvirus are culturally biased. Can they work in 'collectivist' cultures (to use the shorthand)? The CDC guidelines, for example, include the recommendations to "Stay home when you are sick," but also that other members of the household should "Avoid close contact with people who are sick" and should "Choose a room in your home that can be used to separate sick household members from those who are healthy. Identify a separate bathroom for the sick person to use, if possible." This advice is simply not practicable for many households in Colombia. There are not enough rooms; there is no second bathroom. In addition, many infants and young children here are cared for by grandparents, or even great-grandparents (many women here have a baby when young, so an infant may have a grandmother who is in her late 30s and a great-grandmother in her late 50s). The evidence shows that children don't become very ill, but they do get infected and they can infect other people, among whom elderly caregivers will be the most at risk. So I don't think social distance and auto-quarantine will work in Colombia. Consider what the Chinese did: they went door-to-door to identify infected family members and removed them to massive collective quarantine setttings. People in the West considered this to be draconian, even cruel. But it made sense: much more cross-infection occurred in Chinese homes than in places like restaurants. Unless the authorities can come up with strategies that are more appropriate to local circumstances and practices, there is likely to be a rapid and elevated peak of infections in Latin American countries. And I see there is a related point here, on ageism: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200313155256.htm On Apr 7, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Helena Worthen < helenaworthen@gmail.com> wrote: Hello, XMCA-ers - I don't remember ever having read that this list was going to shut down or even be allowed to fade away. So now I'm writing, as if in the dark, to the whole list. We've now got a major - maybe "the" major crisis of the anthropocene on our hands and the distant but connected network represented by the conversations on this list seem to me to be a treasure more precious than gold - and I'm not speaking metaphorically. I am concerned about some of the people who have been pillars and resources on his list, people whom I have reached out to over the years and heard back from with information and perspectives that I would never have been able to access on my own. Where are you now? What are you doing? Are you safe and healthy? Do you have information about friends who are unable to read or respond to this request? I hope to hear some responses to this message. Take care of yourselves, please - Helena Helena Worthen hworthen@illinois.edu 21 San Mateo Road, Berkeley, CA 94707 -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson -- Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a landslide. Roy D'Andrade --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu . For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu . -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200412/d3104e05/attachment.html From annalie.pistorius@smu.ac.za Sun Apr 12 01:35:28 2020 From: annalie.pistorius@smu.ac.za (Annalie Pistorius) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 10:35:28 +0200 (SAST) Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> <001301d60dcb$0b376430$21a62c90$@att.net> <7F97CF82-25AF-4388-98AC-D6A838CA008F@gmail.com> <000001d60df4$f492efe0$ddb8cfa0$@att.net> <62CFE8B1-276 D-4C4C-90CF-C1 E3C3352418@gmail.com> <000601d60f58$bc76cf90$35646eb0$@att.net> <42648D96-D18D-4CC9-8F8B-0CD6F6E7AD46@gmail.com> <032101d61009$412ff3a0$c38fdae0$@smu.ac.za> Message-ID: <038b01d610a5$49dc9750$dd95c5f0$@smu.ac.za> Thank you Ulvi, the readings are very relevant for the question I have. This is the best time to start that self-instruction David Kellogg is referring to. Is your government not enforcing lock-down? How are you doing revolution in Turkey? Annalie From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu On Behalf Of Ulvi I?il Sent: Saturday, 11 April 2020 4:18 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Dear Annalie, You reminded me the sentence of El Che: "Then I realized a fundamental thing: For one to be a revolutionary doctor or to be a revolutionary at all, there must first be a revolution". (https://www.marxists.org/archive/guevara/1960/08/19.htm) South Africa has always been a very beloved country for myself. I think that the fundamental problem for us, for working-class is that, we, in the 20th and 21st centuries, could not develop enough the consciousness that we should destroy the capitalism, we should not delay this with any pretext whenever we have the historical moment before us. I think that this has been the main fault of the world communist movement, its parties and their leadership in particular and of the world leftist movement in general. I think that we should feel and be aware of Lukacs already said nearly 100 years ago: Actuality of socialist revolution.(https://www.marxists.org/archive/lukacs/works/1924/lenin/index.htm) We missed an opportunity for a socialist revolution in the 70s in Turkey, and I think the same for South Africa at the exit from apartheid, the same for Chile at the exit of Pinochet. But now, at the exit of Erdogan, we do not aim a bourgeois democracy. Hegel and Lenin teach us that we must aim a socialist revolution this time. Best wishes from Turkey, Ulvi On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 at 17:01, Annalie Pistorius > wrote: Hi im still here with you. Sitting together is something to do. Our university had shut down before the lockdown here in South Africa ? our students and SRC being medical students have taken charge the way they usually do. I must say they always impress me, how they can manoeuvre all staff when there is a leadership crisis. However now with the Corona world crisis, I am impressed how everyone here including our leaders stand firm and together, herding us and being giving to poor communities. I watch BBC world news almost every day, and was impressed to see that even in Cape Town our gang members have started using their leadership to organise and direct the handing out of food parcels to their community members. Of cause, not everyone is seeing all of this as positive as I am painting it here. I am reminded of the bitter sweetness of the situation, by my patient (with whom I am doing psychotherapy sessions on my cell phone at a very high cost, don?t ask me why not on internet), that his problem of stress, headaches and severe depression is dissolving because he is not at work. No-one shouting into his ears, the voices of critique fading?Now what should be done so that when he goes back his problem continues to dissolve? Is this our moment to build onto? ? how we can change psychotherapies to be social and revolutionary so that patients can insist that people in their worlds change with them? That?s why I am here listening. Greetings Annalie From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu < xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> On Behalf Of Alfredo Jornet Gil Sent: Saturday, 11 April 2020 10:58 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity < xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? The list of xmca members is indeed long! Here is a link to the list: http://lchc-resources.org/xmca/subscriber_list.php Alfredo From: > on behalf of Helena Worthen > Reply to: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Date: Friday, 10 April 2020 at 22:11 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? This is a gracefully written New Yorker-worthy piece of dark dystopian fiction. I would like to start up the whole Utopia discussion again, which I never felt clamped its teeth down hard enough.Thanks, David. I am seeing responses from David Kellogg, Peg Griffin, Mike Cole, Greg Thompson, Rein Raud in Estonia, David Kirshner, Ed Wall, Henry Shoner, Andy Blunden, Martin Packer in Bogota, Richard Beach ? who did I miss? There are more of us out there. I worry about Haydi in Iran. I am swamped with Zoom, telephone and email. Rather than clog up this list I?ll re-visit my blog (below) just in case anyone reads it ? this is with regards to the price of vegetables, David Kellogg. Other than that: the book about contingency goes back through 4 past transitions in higher education: standardization (Carnegie, SATs etc); expansion (the GI bill); the Movement era (civil rights, 1968, etc) and then the neoliberal contraction, for which the explosion of contingency (no job security/no academic freedom, crap wages) was a solution to a set of interlocking administrative problems. WE then go into a lot of detail about what organizing unions for faculty and campus workers in higher education is like. Thanks for asking, David. I?m doing Zoom piano lessons for grandchildren, in hopes that they will come out of this with at least one skill that is useful to humanity. Also working with DSA (Democratic Socialists of America) to lead reading groups about the recent wave of teacher strikes. Still owe Andy a review of his Hegel book; thanks for uploading the difference between Hegel and Marx paper, Andy. There are still some more xmca-ers out there that haven't checked in. Helena Worthen 21 San MAteo Road, Berkeley 94707 510-828-2745 helenaworthen.wordpress.com On Apr 10, 2020, at 12:39 PM, mike cole > wrote: The new samizdat, David? mike On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 10:31 AM David H Kirshner > wrote: Here?s a fictional reminder of what more may be at stake in the current political era. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/04/06/love-letter David From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu < xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> On Behalf Of Peg Griffin, Ph.D. Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 11:55 AM To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' < xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Henry, Only thing I know for sure about any bill is this: If it doesn?t serve well the top 1%, then McConnell won?t have it come to the floor for a vote in the Senate, so many reasonably good bills are never enacted and no Senator or President need be held accountable about their opposition. But, what I know about intersectional groups in the past few years is that we have to reach out in any and all ways possible to be sure we do not step on each other?s messages, actions, and needs, and to be sure we have ways of getting and giving timely support as allies. It sounds wimpy for a bumper sticker, but I wish I had one that said ?Protect Fragile Solidarity!? I think we may be inching in that awkward direction though: SPLC has normalized the bumper sticker, ?Restore the Vote.? Peg From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [ mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 12:05 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity < xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Peg, I really don?t know anymore about life on the Rez now than what I read on line, what I have heard on Native America Calling on our local public radio station KUNM and what I hear from my Navajo Family near Shiprock. So far, no one in my family there is sick. I have no insider information that might help pull the right strings in DC. Deb Haaland sends out regular bulletins describing what she is doing to benefit all New Mexicans, no specific mention of what?s happening on the Navajo. You know more about the bills than I do! Henry On Apr 9, 2020, at 2:36 PM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. < Peg.Griffin@att.net> wrote: Henry, may I ask you to discuss Co-Vid 19 in the Navajo Nation? From news reports the Nation seems to be proactive, trying new and old ways of proceeding. But, in comparison to nearby states, more and deeper problems faced with fewer and less stable resources? DC got robbed in the second bailout bill ? way underfunded. Plans are getting formed and deformed about pushing for fixes in the next bill (now in messes in both House and Senate). Do you know if there are any Navajo plans that DC folk can support, maybe learn from (or at least stop from inadvertently stepping on?) Is staff in Deb Haaland?s office in the HOB a good place to try to find out or ?? A good fantasy about November, Henry. Somehow, it reminds me of the early days in the Fifth Dimension. The children engaged in transformational journeys, taking their avatars through rooms in a table top maze, choosing which of several openings they would use as entry and eventual exit, choosing which of different tasks in the room to do (harder tasks coupled with more choice over which exits from room they could use), collaborating with peers and lovely Big Sisters and Brothers, and there was always the Wizard ?guardian or trickster or sometimes asleep at the wheel. At an exit, avatars transformed and children went to the creature store to pick the token of the transformation to travel with if they chose to enter the 5th D again. But there was also a different world with university and public school calendars and rites of passage. At times for seams important to that world, the children got shirts screen-printed with words ranging from ?I conquered the 5thdimension? ?I barely survived the 5th Dimension? ?I almost survived the 5th Dimension? and so on ?I?m in the middle? ?I?m just starting?? A child reviewed the prior period of time, negotiating which words would be on their shirt. (Of all the weird things in the 5th D, Mike laughs best about the carefully differentiated shirts.) So, how about you and I in the here(s) and now(s)? We make choice after choice after choice and work hard at enough to transform the current elected officials to try to choose better creatures as we exit this iteration of a government and enter again for choices and tasks in the next iteration. Concurrently, we have to keep our eye on the prize of the CoVid 19 pandemic world and survival in it. BTW, I do live inside the Beltway ? 12 blocks north and east of Union Station. The museums, the food, and the HOBs (House Office Buildings) ? as well as the SOBs across the capitol park ? all nearby, familiar sites of camaraderie for efforts, some successful and some not so much. Peg From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [ mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 7:52 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity < xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? I was born at Mercy Hospital in Washington DC. Do you actually live inside the Beltway? Great museums there and food. Scads of family from both Judy?s and my side. One of the last times I visited there, I went to Michelle?s office: She was our representative at the time. She gets around. I have this fantasy brought on by the pandemic and New Mexico?s Blue (Democratic) sweep in 2018 that brought us three kick-ass women: Governor Michelle...Representative Deborah Halland for Albuquerque and surrounds where we live (I canvassed for her in the primary!)?and Representative Xochi Small to the south. All Democrats. The fantasy is that these historic times, this perizhvanie, this Lev budding, will bear fruit in November that gets us through another narrow place. And we will celebrate. Fitting that Passover is tonight, a celebration of liberation from slavery, and a time when we recognize that we are all really strangers, wherever we live. Yikes! Talk about Biblical dialect! It?s as catching as that Corona bug! Must stay well Henry On Apr 8, 2020, at 4:27 PM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. < Peg.Griffin@att.net> wrote: I live in Washington, DC, Henry, but my roots here are by way of LCHC in San Diego which begot xlchc which begot xmca. Don?t know why I switched into a biblical dialect, but not hallucinations, just whimsy. And a little tired this evening. Did you notice how my motif in my last post turned unto motive when I sent it? I think it was Leonti?ev sneaking in. The description of your mask seems dashing! Could Judy have alternative (or ulterior) motive (or motif)? Hmmm, just recognized the 5th Dimension wanting into the lineage recital. Still no hallucination just a few sips of a nice Tuscan blend? Peg From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [ mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 5:14 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity < xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Hey Peg! Yes, I will tell Governor Michelle you?re rooting for her from where you and yours are at! Please forgive my senior moment, but where do YOU live? My wife Judy figured out how to make a mask from a bandana and two hair ties. Like I?m ready to rob the stage coach, full of ppe (personal protective equipment).:) I saw a cartoon of Trump and his underlings at one of his you-can?t-make-it-up briefings. They are wearing masks that cover nose and mouth. Trump has a Lone Ranger mask. Here?s a link for those short on Americana: https://www.pinterest.com/robertharmon311/lone-ranger-mask-patterns-for-save-ranger-challeng/ Stay safe and well! Henry On Apr 8, 2020, at 11:27 AM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. < Peg.Griffin@att.net> wrote: Henry, please tell your governor/friend, Michelle Lujan Grisham, ?We see her, we hear her, we love her, and we know we need her.? Groups here that made good use of allies before the pandemic are making good, well-planned use of us now, especially for those in the shadows, by necessity or oversight, to address basic food and medical insecurity. And thank you, too, Henry and others on xmca. Relatively healthy (AKA no Co-vid19 that we know of and well masked ? my favorite right now is an easily washed and bleached homemade one with a blue lamb motive ? anyone need a pdf for making adult or child masks, with or without hepa-filters?) and safe, Peg From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [ mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 12:48 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity < xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Hi All, Like Greg, I was struck by Andy?s sense that China may go back to ?normal? but the neo-liberal ?first" world is and will be experiencing a profound perizhvanie. You?d hope it will be for the good. In the U.S,, generally, rates of infection are positively correlated with density of population. For example, I live in New Mexico, the fifth largest state in the U.S. with a population of a little over a one million and the lowest rate of infection?so far. However, our Navajo live spread out to the west and north of us, but have very high rates of infection. Little Zia Pueblo, just an our by car to the north and west of us, only has about a thousand people, with eleven confirmed cases. Poverty. In the country as a whole people of color have relatively higher rates of infection. Poverty. Our governor, Michelle Lujan Grisham (who I am proud to say is a good friend), has been successful in pushing baci against Trump?s efforts to punish states that did not vote for him by being less than cooperative in providing resources against the pandemic. She has been using her bully pulpit against Trump's bloviating. His hot air has got to be an infectious agent. Most of us are using masks in public, evidence indicating that it protects OTHERS by wearing them. Trump prefers NOT to wear a mask. Consistent with his politics. You can?t make this up. Be well, Henry On Apr 8, 2020, at 9:00 AM, Greg Thompson < greg.a.thompson@gmail.com> wrote: David, I wonder if you could say more about your experience of the state-based "surveillance" in SK. There are lots of different groups in the U.S., both on the left and the right, who are up in arms about the "tracking" of citizens via credit card and cell phone usage. And it sounds like this is a global concern as Mary's report from SA suggests. Also how interesting how similar the conspiracy theories are around the globe (globalization and the spread of viral ideas?). That's world perezhivanie indeed! -greg On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 3:08 PM David Kellogg < dkellogg60@gmail.com> wrote: Helena-- Situation in China, courtesy my sister-in-law: life in Beijing is pretty much back to normal at least on the face of it. People are going out to their work units (but there is more work from home than before the crisis). Classes still largely taught from ZOOM. My nephew is in Shanghai, where the situation is somewhat tighter (proximity to Wuhan). Wuhan opened up for real yesterday--people can leave (I lived there for two years in the mid-eighties, but I can barely recognize what I see on the news now....) I have students in Chengdu (who attend my class via ZOOM). People are mostly shopping on line with delivery to the gate of the housing unit rather than to their flat (as we do here in Korea). Air quality better than it's been in decades. Situation here in South Korea: We just extended our lockdown for another two weeks. This is in response to a few days of new infections over a hundred, but the infections are mostly (80%) Koreans from the US and Europe who want to live in a place where the medical system has not broken down or is not in the process of breaking down. There are still some "hotspots" of community transmission, but these are almost all connected with churches or PC cafes. Schools reopen on the 16th, but only online. We have elections in a week, and there is a lot of campaigning going on, including the usual street based campaigning (the right wing opposition campaigns around the curious notion that the government has done absolutely nothing, and the government ignores everybody who is not an actual virus). People shop in stores, and there is no panic buying or disruption of supply chains. The main changes in economic life seem to have to do with transport, and it seems like this too will be permanent (electric scooters are everywhere now). Bowing instead of shaking hands is really not a bad idea, and coffee-shops always were over-rated and over-priced.... But what about you, Helena? (One of the things I have learned on this list is that you get more or less what you give--people tend to use what you write as a model for writing back!) Are you still in Vietnam? Your address says Berkeley and your email says Illinois--those are three very different venues for the virus and the economy. Can you give us a brief account of the situation in each? Stay safe, wherever you are! David Kellogg Sangmyung University Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational action research in Mind Culture and Activity https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 Some free e-prints available at: https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 4:30 AM Martin Packer < mpacker@cantab.net> wrote: Hi Helena, I share your concerns. And, despite its challenges, this situation seems a great opportunity to apply our distributed expertise(s). I tried to get some discussion going in a group concerned with the Anthropocene, but people seemed disinclined. Martin Here?s the first message that I sent? The current situation is producing important evidence about the probable consequences of the strategies proposed to mitigate climate change. Satellites are showing significant reductions in pollution: https://www.space.com/italy-coronavirus-outbreak-response-reduces-emissions-satellite-images.html Experts are suggesting that as a result the coronavirus may save more lives than it takes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2020/03/11/coronavirus-lockdown-may-save-more-lives-from-pollution-and-climate-than-from-virus/#4a39bb3c5764 So when skeptics ask ?How can you know that reducing air travel will help with climate change?? there is now clear evidence with which to answer them. Also in China: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/04/811019032/why-chinas-air-has-been-cleaner-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak At the same time, I am starting to wonder whether the current health guidelines regarding coronvirus are culturally biased. Can they work in ?collectivist? cultures (to use the shorthand)? The CDC guidelines, for example, include the recommendations to ?Stay home when you are sick,? but also that other members of the household should ?Avoid close contact with people who are sick? and should ?Choose a room in your home that can be used to separate sick household members from those who are healthy. Identify a separate bathroom for the sick person to use, if possible.? This advice is simply not practicable for many households in Colombia. There are not enough rooms; there is no second bathroom. In addition, many infants and young children here are cared for by grandparents, or even great-grandparents (many women here have a baby when young, so an infant may have a grandmother who is in her late 30s and a great-grandmother in her late 50s). The evidence shows that children don?t become very ill, but they do get infected and they can infect other people, among whom elderly caregivers will be the most at risk. So I don?t think social distance and auto-quarantine will work in Colombia. Consider what the Chinese did: they went door-to-door to identify infected family members and removed them to massive collective quarantine setttings. People in the West considered this to be draconian, even cruel. But it made sense: much more cross-infection occurred in Chinese homes than in places like restaurants. Unless the authorities can come up with strategies that are more appropriate to local circumstances and practices, there is likely to be a rapid and elevated peak of infections in Latin American countries. And I see there is a related point here, on ageism: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200313155256.htm On Apr 7, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Helena Worthen < helenaworthen@gmail.com> wrote: Hello, XMCA-ers - I don?t remember ever having read that this list was going to shut down or even be allowed to fade away. So now I?m writing, as if in the dark, to the whole list. We?ve now got a major ? maybe ?the? major crisis of the anthropocene on our hands and the distant but connected network represented by the conversations on this list seem to me to be a treasure more precious than gold - and I?m not speaking metaphorically. I am concerned about some of the people who have been pillars and resources on his list, people whom I have reached out to over the years and heard back from with information and perspectives that I would never have been able to access on my own. Where are you now? What are you doing? Are you safe and healthy? Do you have information about friends who are unable to read or respond to this request? I hope to hear some responses to this message. Take care of yourselves, please ? Helena Helena Worthen hworthen@illinois.edu 21 San Mateo Road, Berkeley, CA 94707 -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson -- Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a landslide. Roy D'Andrade --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200412/a6366533/attachment.html From feine@duq.edu Sun Apr 12 06:15:38 2020 From: feine@duq.edu (Dr. Elizabeth Fein) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 13:15:38 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] General check-in? In-Reply-To: References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <7F97CF82-25AF-4388-98AC-D6A838CA008F@gmail.com> <000201d60eae$9ef9d5c0$dced8140$@att.net> <62CFE8B1-276D-4C4C-90CF-C1E3C3352418@gmail.com> <6F3B64BE-7924-4166-A72C-D25513F262E5@tlu.ee> , Message-ID: Hi Mike - Yes, I hope so. It often seems to me like a good place within which to formulate the relationships between specificity and generality that many of the qual-list folks - and those who identify as qualitative psychologists in general - grapple with. We're in the process of re-inventing what would have been our 2020 conference, so maybe a space can be built there to explore this intersection. Best, Elizabeth ________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of mike cole Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 8:43 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: [External] Re: General check-in? Hi Elizabeth-- I always appreciated news of the qual list. Might Cultural Praxis be a place to find a way to get qual list and xmca list people to recognize a certain we-ness and find ways to support each other's work? mike On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 1:17 PM Dr. Elizabeth Fein > wrote: Hello all - Longtime lurker on this list, emerging occasionally to send little dispatches from SQIP. But I read much of what comes through. I'm in Pittsburgh, in a small neighborhood whose close connections make me feel both immense gratitude and wonderment. Every day as I drink my morning coffee I write a few pages in a notebook, and recently those have been taken up with these questions: what do I do? Or as Mike puts it, what can we do, whoever we is, or are? The question I keep coming back to, and that I encountered so often in my work with people shaded under the umbrella of the "autism spectrum" diagnosis that brought me to this list, is how do we relearn the ability to think of ourselves in terms of a we - one that is neither confined to the claustrophobic intimacy of the dyad nor lost in the abstractions of national identity or homogenizing social structures, but that occupies some space in between. This "larger social unit" that David evoked in that earlier email, which - in being neither binary nor undifferentiated (not the one or the one-and-the-other or the all, but the several) - seems like it itself teaches us to think about our place in space and time and history in a distinct way. I'm excited, in a way that had been hard for me to access in the last few days, about the possibility of engaging the wisdom of this list in this and other projects. Wishing you well, Elizabeth ________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of mike cole > Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 2:22 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [External] [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Hi Rein -- Its great to hear from Estonia. The Tulvistas used to be contributors to this conversation, back in the day. Your cultural-historical tradition, entwined with your semiotics, educate us all. How are you and your social circle thinkig about the current historical crisis/crises in terms of the future of democracy and debates about what follows in terms of possible forms of political economy.? I am "seeing" a very strong movement on the part of my government to fulfill our founding fathers's single worst nightmare: That a president would become king, and the states his vassals. This imagining is reinforced almost daily as I scan the horizon. A new form of nationalist authoritarianism. I might even live long enough to experience it. As critical, committed, cultural-historical, social scientists, who teach in universities tasked with creating and "transmitting" our knowledge to next generations, what special skills do we bring to our social roles and its obligations? Beth has described going through a qualitative transformation in her social role that is tightly bound to her obligations to her students and their students. David points to a future in which classroom spaces will not be used for their designed purposes for at least 2-3 years, assuming a globally distributed vaccine, or else it will be entirely a form of distance education that the world has never before experienced. Either way, inequalities will be exacerbated. etc. You all of this. So what can WE do (whoever we is?). Here is what I imagine from the perspective of a vulnerable 82 year old and almost four decades of xlchc-->xmca: Many people associated with XMCA, and many more who are associated with a variety of allied enterprises, have for decades become "experts" in the design of new forms of educational activity (or medical activity, or milk delivery men's mathematical practices, or tailors eeking out a living in an impoverished country) If I were a youngster and into branding, I might say that CHAT is expert in creating hybrid,multimedia, systems of activity, ones that afford the design of the kind of "heterogeneous attunement." -- the kind of attunement that promotes learning and development in zones of proxmal development. However, I am not a youngster and my plate was pretty full before this second shock wave, I am thinking about this as an "act locally but think globally" way to deal with a world where people must band together but can only survive by their networked ties to other. XMCA may not be the best place to discuss such matters. Your note with its "two kinds of social distancing" set me off. Here the medium seems to promote forms of chaining that leave only buried traces of the by-passed links. Then they silence those who feel disempowered by the male-domination. whiteness and status that have been apparently unstoppable although it is not the wish of any of those who participate. This happens not just on xmca, but in other fora where everyone does not want it to happen. My hope is that Cultural Praxis, which the MCA editors are re-vivifying, will provide more tools to ensure that we retain the diversity essential to any sort of cultural-historical theorizing or practicing. My whole ruble mike PS- How do we hybridize your two kinds of social distancing to create effect environments for education? On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 1:30 AM Rein Raud > wrote: Hi everyone, Sorry for not having been very active lately, as I?ve been submerged in lots of reading and writing, and the situation with the crisis has created an even more conducive atmosphere for that. In Estonia, the situation is more or less under control, and social distancing has been in our second nature for ages, although now that it is encouraged, it is suddenly no longer so natural. Stay safe and keep up the good work! With best wishes, Rein ********************************************** Rein Raud Professor of Asian and Cultural Studies, Tallinn University Uus-Sadama 5, Tallinn 10120 Estonia www.reinraud.com ?Meaning in Action: Outline of an Integral Theory of Culture?(Polity 2016) ?Practices of Selfhood? (with Zygmunt Bauman, Polity 2015) -- Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a landslide. Roy D'Andrade --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -- Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a landslide. Roy D'Andrade --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200412/b197b2d2/attachment.html From bjones@ucsd.edu Sun Apr 12 07:34:58 2020 From: bjones@ucsd.edu (Bruce Jones) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 07:34:58 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Problems with XMCA email In-Reply-To: References: <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> Message-ID: <1da6196d-d9a1-31c8-4dd4-c57dd3d2cfb7@ucsd.edu> On 4/11/20 12:08 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > About e-mails not coming, that?s interesting, Greg (specially given the > record!). I did get both Anne-Nelly and Annalie?s e-mails originally > sent. So, if it is a systematic thing in the server, it is also > selective as to whom it targets! I hope Bruce can help here. The changes in UCSD's email systems have caused a number of problems. I manage the XMCA mailing list. I was having problems with email sent to the management address, xmca-l-owner@ucsd.edu. What I eventually discovered, only last Friday, is that the filters I'd set up inside my email client, Thunderbird for Mac, where the culprit. Something in the changes at UCSD had some, but not all of the incoming XMCA mail getting labeled as spam, which meant that T-Bird was dumping them. I removed all the filters, and unchecked the box that told T-Bird to believe the SpamAssassin header and the mail is now flowing properly again. If some of you are seeing all the mail, and others are not, then those that aren't might begin by working with local spam filtering if possible. I will send some mail to the campus mail managers to see if they can poke at their own filtering and figure out why the mail is getting flagged as spam. And if you send messages to me at bjones@ucsd.edu and they bounce, or you don't see a response, feel free to send to my gmail address: sugagaki@gmail.com Please note that I will be gone all day tomorrow, Monday, April 13. -- Bruce Jones Sys Admin, LCHC bjones@ucsd.edu 619-823-8281 From mcole@ucsd.edu Sun Apr 12 07:44:52 2020 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 07:44:52 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Problems with XMCA email In-Reply-To: <1da6196d-d9a1-31c8-4dd4-c57dd3d2cfb7@ucsd.edu> References: <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> <1da6196d-d9a1-31c8-4dd4-c57dd3d2cfb7@ucsd.edu> Message-ID: Thanks for your years of volunteer help, BJ. How easy it was when we began with that great invention, the internet 4 decades ago! Mike On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 7:36 AM Bruce Jones wrote: > On 4/11/20 12:08 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > > > About e-mails not coming, that?s interesting, Greg (specially given the > > record!). I did get both Anne-Nelly and Annalie?s e-mails originally > > sent. So, if it is a systematic thing in the server, it is also > > selective as to whom it targets! I hope Bruce can help here. > > The changes in UCSD's email systems have caused a number of problems. > > I manage the XMCA mailing list. I was having problems with email sent > to the management address, xmca-l-owner@ucsd.edu. > > What I eventually discovered, only last Friday, is that the filters I'd > set up inside my email client, Thunderbird for Mac, where the culprit. > Something in the changes at UCSD had some, but not all of the incoming > XMCA mail getting labeled as spam, which meant that T-Bird was dumping > them. > > I removed all the filters, and unchecked the box that told T-Bird to > believe the SpamAssassin header and the mail is now flowing properly again. > > If some of you are seeing all the mail, and others are not, then those > that aren't might begin by working with local spam filtering if possible. > > I will send some mail to the campus mail managers to see if they can > poke at their own filtering and figure out why the mail is getting > flagged as spam. > > And if you send messages to me at bjones@ucsd.edu and they bounce, or > you don't see a response, feel free to send to my gmail address: > sugagaki@gmail.com > > Please note that I will be gone all day tomorrow, Monday, April 13. > > -- > Bruce Jones > Sys Admin, LCHC > bjones@ucsd.edu > 619-823-8281 > > -- Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a landslide. Roy D'Andrade --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200412/ebffaa31/attachment.html From ulvi.icil@gmail.com Sun Apr 12 07:46:16 2020 From: ulvi.icil@gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?VWx2aSDEsMOnaWw=?=) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:46:16 +0300 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: <038b01d610a5$49dc9750$dd95c5f0$@smu.ac.za> References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> <001301d60dcb$0b376430$21a62c90$@att.net> <7F97CF82-25AF-4388-98AC-D6A838CA008F@gmail.com> <000001d60df4$f492efe0$ddb8cfa0$@att.net> <000601d60f58$bc76cf90$35646eb0$@att.net> <42648D96-D18D-4CC9-8F8B-0CD6F6E7AD46@gmail.com> <032101d61009$412ff3a0$c38fdae0$@smu.ac.za> <038b01d610a5$49dc9750$dd95c5f0$@smu.ac.za> Message-ID: Dear Annalie, No, they do not force it. They are of the type Boris Johnson, Donald Trump but they surpassed these latter in not forcing it. I think two things are crucial for socialist revolution. First, there must be a communist, working-class party who really wants to seize the political power for revolution, who does not postpone this. I call this to have a perspective for political power. This, we have it. Communist Party of Turkey. Second, the country needs to be something like what Lenin defines it as a weak ring in the imperialist chain. I think that Turkey is a weak ring in today's imperialist chain, like Greece, like South Africa. And many countries, like ?taly, Spain, even France are on the way to be open to socialist revolution with the class contradictions getting more intense than ever. Ulvi On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 at 11:38, Annalie Pistorius wrote: > Thank you Ulvi, the readings are very relevant for the question I have. > This is the best time to start that self-instruction David Kellogg is > referring to. > > Is your government not enforcing lock-down? How are you doing revolution > in Turkey? > > Annalie > > > > *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu *On > Behalf Of *Ulvi I?il > *Sent:* Saturday, 11 April 2020 4:18 PM > *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? > > > > Dear Annalie, > > > > You reminded me the sentence of El Che: > > > > "Then I realized a fundamental thing: For one to be a revolutionary > doctor or to be a revolutionary at all, there must first be a revolution". > > > > (https://www.marxists.org/archive/guevara/1960/08/19.htm) > > > > South Africa has always been a very beloved country for myself. > > I think that the fundamental problem for us, for working-class is that, > we, in the 20th and 21st centuries, could not develop enough the > consciousness that we should destroy the capitalism, we should not delay > this with any pretext whenever we have the historical moment before us. > > > > I think that this has been the main fault of the world communist > movement, its parties and their leadership in particular and of the world > leftist movement in general. > > > > I think that we should feel and be aware of Lukacs already said nearly > 100 years ago: Actuality of socialist revolution.( > https://www.marxists.org/archive/lukacs/works/1924/lenin/index.htm) > > > > We missed an opportunity for a socialist revolution in the 70s in Turkey, > and I think the same for South Africa at the exit from apartheid, the same > for Chile at the exit of Pinochet. > > > > But now, at the exit of Erdogan, we do not aim a bourgeois democracy. > > Hegel and Lenin teach us that we must aim a socialist revolution this time. > > > > Best wishes from Turkey, > > > > Ulvi > > > > > > > > On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 at 17:01, Annalie Pistorius < > annalie.pistorius@smu.ac.za> wrote: > > Hi im still here with you. Sitting together is something to do. Our > university had shut down before the lockdown here in South Africa ? our > students and SRC being medical students have taken charge the way they > usually do. I must say they always impress me, how they can manoeuvre all > staff when there is a leadership crisis. However now with the Corona world > crisis, I am impressed how everyone here including our leaders stand firm > and together, herding us and being giving to poor communities. > > I watch BBC world news almost every day, and was impressed to see that > even in Cape Town our gang members have started using their leadership to > organise and direct the handing out of food parcels to their community > members. Of cause, not everyone is seeing all of this as positive as I am > painting it here. > > I am reminded of the bitter sweetness of the situation, by my patient > (with whom I am doing psychotherapy sessions on my cell phone at a very > high cost, don?t ask me why not on internet), that his problem of stress, > headaches and severe depression is dissolving because he is not at work. > No-one shouting into his ears, the voices of critique fading?Now what > should be done so that when he goes back his problem continues to dissolve? > > Is this our moment to build onto? ? how we can change psychotherapies to > be social and revolutionary so that patients can insist that people in > their worlds change with them? > > That?s why I am here listening. > > Greetings > > Annalie > > > > > > *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu *On > Behalf Of *Alfredo Jornet Gil > *Sent:* Saturday, 11 April 2020 10:58 AM > *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? > > > > The list of xmca members is indeed long! Here is a link to the list: > http://lchc-resources.org/xmca/subscriber_list.php > > Alfredo > > > > > > *From: * on behalf of Helena Worthen < > helenaworthen@gmail.com> > *Reply to: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > *Date: *Friday, 10 April 2020 at 22:11 > *To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? > > > > This is a gracefully written New Yorker-worthy piece of dark dystopian > fiction. I would like to start up the whole Utopia discussion again, which > I never felt clamped its teeth down hard enough.Thanks, David. > > > > I am seeing responses from David Kellogg, Peg Griffin, Mike Cole, Greg > Thompson, Rein Raud in Estonia, David Kirshner, Ed Wall, Henry Shoner, Andy > Blunden, Martin Packer in Bogota, Richard Beach ? who did I miss? There > are more of us out there. I worry about Haydi in Iran. > > > > I am swamped with Zoom, telephone and email. Rather than clog up this > list I?ll re-visit my blog (below) just in case anyone reads it ? this is > with regards to the price of vegetables, David Kellogg. > > > > Other than that: the book about contingency goes back through 4 past > transitions in higher education: standardization (Carnegie, SATs etc); > expansion (the GI bill); the Movement era (civil rights, 1968, etc) and > then the neoliberal contraction, for which the explosion of contingency (no > job security/no academic freedom, crap wages) was a solution to a set of > interlocking administrative problems. WE then go into a lot of detail about > what organizing unions for faculty and campus workers in higher education > is like. Thanks for asking, David. > > > > I?m doing Zoom piano lessons for grandchildren, in hopes that they will > come out of this with at least one skill that is useful to humanity. Also > working with DSA (Democratic Socialists of America) to lead reading groups > about the recent wave of teacher strikes. Still owe Andy a review of his > Hegel book; thanks for uploading the difference between Hegel and Marx > paper, Andy. > > > > There are still some more xmca-ers out there that haven't checked in. > > > > > > Helena Worthen > > 21 San MAteo Road, Berkeley 94707 > > 510-828-2745 > > > > helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 10, 2020, at 12:39 PM, mike cole wrote: > > > > The new samizdat, David? > > mike > > > > On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 10:31 AM David H Kirshner wrote: > > Here?s a fictional reminder of what more may be at stake in the current > political era. > > https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/04/06/love-letter > > David > > > > *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu *On > Behalf Of *Peg Griffin, Ph.D. > *Sent:* Friday, April 10, 2020 11:55 AM > *To:* 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' > *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? > > > > Henry, > > Only thing I know for sure about any bill is this: If it doesn?t serve > well the top 1%, then McConnell won?t have it come to the floor for a vote > in the Senate, so many reasonably good bills are never enacted and no > Senator or President need be held accountable about their opposition. > > > > But, what I know about intersectional groups in the past few years is that > we have to reach out in any and all ways possible to be sure we do not step > on each other?s messages, actions, and needs, and to be sure we have ways > of getting and giving timely support as allies. > > > > It sounds wimpy for a bumper sticker, but I wish I had one that said > ?Protect Fragile Solidarity!? > > I think we may be inching in that awkward direction though: SPLC has > normalized the bumper sticker, ?Restore the Vote.? > > Peg > > > > *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [ > mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu ] *On > Behalf Of *HENRY SHONERD > *Sent:* Friday, April 10, 2020 12:05 AM > *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? > > > > Peg, > > I really don?t know anymore about life on the Rez now than what I read on > line, what I have heard on Native America Calling on our local public radio > station KUNM and what I hear from my Navajo Family near Shiprock. So far, > no one in my family there is sick. I have no insider information that might > help pull the right strings in DC. Deb Haaland sends out regular bulletins > describing what she is doing to benefit all New Mexicans, no specific > mention of what?s happening on the Navajo. You know more about the bills > than I do! > > Henry > > > > > > On Apr 9, 2020, at 2:36 PM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. > wrote: > > > > Henry, may I ask you to discuss Co-Vid 19 in the Navajo Nation? From news > reports the Nation seems to be proactive, trying new and old ways of > proceeding. But, in comparison to nearby states, more and deeper problems > faced with fewer and less stable resources? DC got robbed in the second > bailout bill ? way underfunded. Plans are getting formed and deformed > about pushing for fixes in the next bill (now in messes in both House and > Senate). Do you know if there are any Navajo plans that DC folk can > support, maybe learn from (or at least stop from inadvertently stepping > on?) Is staff in Deb Haaland?s office in the HOB a good place to try to > find out or ?? > > > > A good fantasy about November, Henry. Somehow, it reminds me of the early > days in the Fifth Dimension. The children engaged in transformational > journeys, taking their avatars through rooms in a table top maze, choosing > which of several openings they would use as entry and eventual exit, > choosing which of different tasks in the room to do (harder tasks coupled > with more choice over which exits from room they could use), collaborating > with peers and lovely Big Sisters and Brothers, and there was always the > Wizard ?guardian or trickster or sometimes asleep at the wheel. At an > exit, avatars transformed and children went to the creature store to pick > the token of the transformation to travel with if they chose to enter the 5 > th D again. > > > > But there was also a different world with university and public school > calendars and rites of passage. At times for seams important to that world, > the children got shirts screen-printed with words ranging from ?I conquered > the 5thdimension? ?I barely survived the 5th Dimension? ?I almost > survived the 5th Dimension? and so on ?I?m in the middle? ?I?m just > starting?? A child reviewed the prior period of time, negotiating which > words would be on their shirt. (Of all the weird things in the 5th D, > Mike laughs best about the carefully differentiated shirts.) > > > > So, how about you and I in the here(s) and now(s)? We make choice after > choice after choice and work hard at enough to transform the current > elected officials to try to choose better creatures as we exit this > iteration of a government and enter again for choices and tasks in the next > iteration. Concurrently, we have to keep our eye on the prize of the CoVid > 19 pandemic world and survival in it. > > > > BTW, I do live inside the Beltway ? 12 blocks north and east of Union > Station. The museums, the food, and the HOBs (House Office Buildings) ? as > well as the SOBs across the capitol park ? all nearby, familiar sites of > camaraderie for efforts, some successful and some not so much. > > > > Peg > > > > *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [ > mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu ] *On > Behalf Of *HENRY SHONERD > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 8, 2020 7:52 PM > *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? > > > > I was born at Mercy Hospital in Washington DC. Do you actually live inside > the Beltway? Great museums there and food. Scads of family from both Judy?s > and my side. One of the last times I visited there, I went to Michelle?s > office: She was our representative at the time. She gets around. > > > > I have this fantasy brought on by the pandemic and New Mexico?s Blue > (Democratic) sweep in 2018 that brought us three kick-ass women: Governor > Michelle...Representative Deborah Halland for Albuquerque and surrounds > where we live (I canvassed for her in the primary!)?and Representative > Xochi Small to the south. All Democrats. The fantasy is that these historic > times, this perizhvanie, this Lev budding, will bear fruit in November that > gets us through another narrow place. And we will celebrate. Fitting that > Passover is tonight, a celebration of liberation from slavery, and a time > when we recognize that we are all really strangers, wherever we live. > > > > Yikes! Talk about Biblical dialect! It?s as catching as that Corona bug! > > > > Must stay well > > Henry > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 8, 2020, at 4:27 PM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. > wrote: > > > > I live in Washington, DC, Henry, but my roots here are by way of LCHC in > San Diego which begot xlchc which begot xmca. Don?t know why I switched > into a biblical dialect, but not hallucinations, just whimsy. And a little > tired this evening. > > Did you notice how my motif in my last post turned unto motive when I sent > it? I think it was Leonti?ev sneaking in. > > The description of your mask seems dashing! Could Judy have alternative > (or ulterior) motive (or motif)? > > Hmmm, just recognized the 5th Dimension wanting into the lineage > recital. Still no hallucination just a few sips of a nice Tuscan blend? > > Peg > > > > *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [ > mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu ] *On > Behalf Of *HENRY SHONERD > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 8, 2020 5:14 PM > *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? > > > > Hey Peg! > > Yes, I will tell Governor Michelle you?re rooting for her from where you > and yours are at! Please forgive my senior moment, but where do YOU live? > > > > My wife Judy figured out how to make a mask from a bandana and two hair > ties. Like I?m ready to rob the stage coach, full of ppe (personal > protective equipment).:) I saw a cartoon of Trump and his underlings at one > of his you-can?t-make-it-up briefings. They are wearing masks that cover > nose and mouth. Trump has a Lone Ranger mask. Here?s a link for those short > on Americana: > > > https://www.pinterest.com/robertharmon311/lone-ranger-mask-patterns-for-save-ranger-challeng/ > > > > > Stay safe and well! > > Henry > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 8, 2020, at 11:27 AM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. > wrote: > > > > Henry, please tell your governor/friend, Michelle Lujan Grisham, ?We see > her, we hear her, we love her, and we know we need her.? > > > > Groups here that made good use of allies before the pandemic are making > good, well-planned use of us now, especially for those in the shadows, by > necessity or oversight, to address basic food and medical insecurity. > > > > And thank you, too, Henry and others on xmca. > > > > Relatively healthy (AKA no Co-vid19 that we know of and well masked ? my > favorite right now is an easily washed and bleached homemade one with a > blue lamb motive ? anyone need a pdf for making adult or child masks, with > or without hepa-filters?) and safe, > > Peg > > > > *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [ > mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu ] *On > Behalf Of *HENRY SHONERD > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 8, 2020 12:48 PM > *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? > > > > Hi All, > > Like Greg, I was struck by Andy?s sense that China may go back to ?normal? > but the neo-liberal ?first" world is and will be experiencing a profound > perizhvanie. You?d hope it will be for the good. > > > > In the U.S,, generally, rates of infection are positively correlated with > density of population. For example, I live in New Mexico, the fifth largest > state in the U.S. with a population of a little over a one million and the > lowest rate of infection?so far. However, our Navajo live spread out to the > west and north of us, but have very high rates of infection. Little Zia > Pueblo, just an our by car to the north and west of us, only has about a > thousand people, with eleven confirmed cases. Poverty. In the country as a > whole people of color have relatively higher rates of infection. Poverty. > > > > Our governor, Michelle Lujan Grisham (who I am proud to say is a good > friend), has been successful in pushing baci against Trump?s efforts to > punish states that did not vote for him by being less than cooperative in > providing resources against the pandemic. She has been using her bully > pulpit against Trump's bloviating. His hot air has got to be an infectious > agent. Most of us are using masks in public, evidence indicating that it > protects OTHERS by wearing them. Trump prefers NOT to wear a mask. > Consistent with his politics. You can?t make this up. > > > > Be well, > > Henry > > > > On Apr 8, 2020, at 9:00 AM, Greg Thompson > wrote: > > > > David, > > > > I wonder if you could say more about your experience of the state-based > "surveillance" in SK. There are lots of different groups in the U.S., both > on the left and the right, who are up in arms about the "tracking" of > citizens via credit card and cell phone usage. > > > > And it sounds like this is a global concern as Mary's report from SA > suggests. > > > > Also how interesting how similar the conspiracy theories are around the > globe (globalization and the spread of viral ideas?). That's world > perezhivanie indeed! > > > > -greg > > > > On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 3:08 PM David Kellogg wrote: > > Helena-- > > > > Situation in China, courtesy my sister-in-law: life in Beijing is pretty > much back to normal at least on the face of it. People are going out to > their work units (but there is more work from home than before the > crisis). Classes still largely taught from ZOOM. My nephew is in > Shanghai, where the situation is somewhat tighter (proximity to > Wuhan). Wuhan opened up for real yesterday--people can leave (I lived there > for two years in the mid-eighties, but I can barely recognize what I see on > the news now....) I have students in Chengdu (who attend my class via > ZOOM). People are mostly shopping on line with delivery to the gate of the > housing unit rather than to their flat (as we do here in Korea). Air > quality better than it's been in decades. > > > > Situation here in South Korea: We just extended our lockdown for another > two weeks. This is in response to a few days of new infections over a > hundred, but the infections are mostly (80%) Koreans from the US and Europe > who want to live in a place where the medical system has not broken down or > is not in the process of breaking down. There are still some "hotspots" of > community transmission, but these are almost all connected with churches or > PC cafes. Schools reopen on the 16th, but only online. We have elections in > a week, and there is a lot of campaigning going on, including the usual > street based campaigning (the right wing opposition campaigns around the > curious notion that the government has done absolutely nothing, and the > government ignores everybody who is not an actual virus). People shop in > stores, and there is no panic buying or disruption of supply chains. The > main changes in economic life seem to have to do with transport, and it > seems like this too will be permanent (electric scooters are everywhere > now). Bowing instead of shaking hands is really not a bad idea, and > coffee-shops always were over-rated and over-priced.... > > > > But what about you, Helena? (One of the things I have learned on this list > is that you get more or less what you give--people tend to use what you > write as a model for writing back!) Are you still in Vietnam? Your address > says Berkeley and your email says Illinois--those are three very different > venues for the virus and the economy. Can you give us a brief account of > the situation in each? > > > > Stay safe, wherever you are! > > > David Kellogg > > Sangmyung University > > > > Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of *Critical > Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational > action research * > > in *Mind Culture and Activity* > > > > *https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847* > > > > > Some free e-prints available at: > > > > > https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 > > > > > New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works > Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" > > > > https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 4:30 AM Martin Packer wrote: > > Hi Helena, > > > > I share your concerns. And, despite its challenges, this situation seems a > great opportunity to apply our distributed expertise(s). I tried to get > some discussion going in a group concerned with the Anthropocene, but > people seemed disinclined. > > > > Martin > > > > Here?s the first message that I sent? > > > > The current situation is producing important evidence about the probable > consequences of the strategies proposed to mitigate climate change. > Satellites are showing significant reductions in pollution: > > > https://www.space.com/italy-coronavirus-outbreak-response-reduces-emissions-satellite-images.html > > > Experts are suggesting that as a result the coronavirus may save more > lives than it takes: > > > https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2020/03/11/coronavirus-lockdown-may-save-more-lives-from-pollution-and-climate-than-from-virus/#4a39bb3c5764 > > > So when skeptics ask ?How can you know that reducing air travel will help > with climate change?? there is now clear evidence with which to answer them. > > > > Also in China: > > > https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/04/811019032/why-chinas-air-has-been-cleaner-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak > > > > > At the same time, I am starting to wonder whether the current health > guidelines regarding coronvirus are culturally biased. Can they work in > ?collectivist? cultures (to use the shorthand)? The CDC guidelines, for > example, include the recommendations to ?Stay home when you are sick,? but > also that other members of the household should ?Avoid close contact with > people who are sick? and should ?Choose a room in your home that can be > used to separate sick household members from those who are healthy. > Identify a separate bathroom for the sick person to use, if possible.? > > This advice is simply not practicable for many households in Colombia. > There are not enough rooms; there is no second bathroom. In addition, many > infants and young children here are cared for by grandparents, or even > great-grandparents (many women here have a baby when young, so an infant > may have a grandmother who is in her late 30s and a great-grandmother in > her late 50s). The evidence shows that children don?t become very ill, but > they do get infected and they can infect other people, among whom elderly > caregivers will be the most at risk. > > So I don?t think social distance and auto-quarantine will work in > Colombia. Consider what the Chinese did: they went door-to-door to identify > infected family members and removed them to massive collective quarantine > setttings. People in the West considered this to be draconian, even cruel. > But it made sense: much more cross-infection occurred in Chinese homes than > in places like restaurants. > > Unless the authorities can come up with strategies that are more > appropriate to local circumstances and practices, there is likely to be a > rapid and elevated peak of infections in Latin American countries. > > > > And I see there is a related point here, on ageism: > > https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200313155256.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 7, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Helena Worthen > wrote: > > > > Hello, XMCA-ers - > > > > I don?t remember ever having read that this list was going to shut down or > even be allowed to fade away. So now I?m writing, as if in the dark, to the > whole list. We?ve now got a major ? maybe ?the? major crisis of the > anthropocene on our hands and the distant but connected network represented > by the conversations on this list seem to me to be a treasure more precious > than gold - and I?m not speaking metaphorically. > > > > I am concerned about some of the people who have been pillars and > resources on his list, people whom I have reached out to over the years and > heard back from with information and perspectives that I would never have > been able to access on my own. Where are you now? What are you doing? Are > you safe and healthy? Do you have information about friends who are unable > to read or respond to this request? > > > > I hope to hear some responses to this message. > > > > Take care of yourselves, please ? > > > > Helena > > > > > > Helena Worthen > > hworthen@illinois.edu > > 21 San Mateo Road, Berkeley, CA 94707 > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > > Assistant Professor > > Department of Anthropology > > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > > Brigham Young University > > Provo, UT 84602 > > WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson > > > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > > > > > > > > -- > > Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a > landslide. Roy D'Andrade > > --------------------------------------------------- > > For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other > members of LCHC, visit > > lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the > research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200412/ed4003fa/attachment-0001.html From helenaworthen@gmail.com Sun Apr 12 11:33:45 2020 From: helenaworthen@gmail.com (Helena Worthen) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 11:33:45 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> Message-ID: So far two people have done this ? me among them. Anyone else? Helena Worthen helenaworthen.wordpress.com > On Apr 11, 2020, at 1:47 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > > One way could be compiling them in a google docs. Each question could be written as a heading, and under each heading, each participat writes name in Bold and then answer in body type. Would this work and would people be willing to fill in? If yes, here is a Google doc anyone could fill in: > > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1s23bmSz-Su4hohICZE_il8ujuhecIt2PeRcSa_TeSjw/edit?usp=sharing > > > Alfredo > > From: on behalf of Helena Worthen > Reply to: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Date: Saturday, 11 April 2020 at 22:37 > To: "laure.kloetzer@gmail.com" , "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? > > Hi, Laure ? It looks as if each group to which this is disseminated has to collect its own results and share them among themselves. I wish we could compile results across xmca at least to see which are the two activities chosen by this widespread community. > > H > > Helena Worthen > helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > > > > On Apr 11, 2020, at 12:48 PM, Laure Kloetzer > wrote: > > Good evening, > > In Neuch?tel, we sent an adapted version of the Latour questionnaire to our students for gathering their own reflections, with the goal to discuss them altogether after all this. > Take care, > Laure Kloetzer > > > Le sam. 11 avr. 2020 ? 21:46, Helena Worthen > a ?crit : > The Latour exercise that Anne-Nelly provides is really provocative!!! I did it; it takes 10-15 minutes and helped me clarify my thinking. > > Thank you. Here?s the link again: > > http://www.bruno-latour.fr/node/852.html > > > Helena Worthen > helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > > > > On Apr 10, 2020, at 8:48 PM, mike cole > wrote: > > Hi Anna-Lisa. What you describe has great similarities what people in the US are experiencing with the exception that it is now clear for all to see that it is poverty, or the security of the vulnerable (same thing in my view). > > Thanks very much for the Latium letter. It is totally relevant right now. > > Mike > > On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 9:38 AM PERRET-CLERMONT Anne-Nelly > wrote: > Hello everybody! > > Thank you so much for all the news and perspectives that are being shared from all over the Planet. Such difficult times, especially for those who can?t even send news... > > Some news from Switzerland, a privileged country, yet with very serious contamination rates. Almost 4 weeks of confinement (rights to go out are very limited and only a limited number of professions are still working) that totally re-organize our private and public life. > > The sun is shining wonderfully and it is very tempting to move out for this Easter holiday. Nevertheless, most people are very disciplined and stay home in confinement. > It took a lot of time for the local, cantonal and federal authorities to decide on the confinement measures. Switzerland?s political traditions impose bottom-up decisions. But the result of this (too slow?) process seems to be that most people agree and comply with this policy. Police forces try to do education and not repression. But the peak of the tide of contamination has not been reached yet and hospitals are under stress. > > The economic stress due to this long shut down arises a lot of fear on the side of trade unions and employers associations. Switzerland has very large multinational companies, but 90% of its firms are small or medium size business. Quite a number of them are now reaching the edge of bankruptcy. If they should go bankrup,t this would totally disorganise the country, its daily style of life and more: small firms and their locations impact regional demography, resources, power (in a federation of cantons), etc. after compulsory education, 60% of the young people attend dual education (i.e. half time in firms and half-time in school) and if firms shut down this education will fall apart. Government, banks and networks of citizens are lending money and trying to maintain these small firms alive. Unemployment rate is raising but rents have to be paid. Etc? > > Switzerland is a country of pharmaceutical industry and engineers. But the panic in the hospitals is not over: equipment is insufficient, and drugs are starting to miss. Local enterprises have the know how to make them but ?with ingredients that come exclusively from China and India. Hospitals have been afraid of losing 25% to 40% of their staff as nurses often come from the bordering regions of France and Italy. Finally, these countries have locked their borders but not for those professionals. This does not solve the problem on the long term, of course as these countries also need more medical staff. We hope that a growing awareness of the importance (and respect and salary) due to these professions will finally have the necessary impact. At 9 p.m., everybody goes at the window or balcony to give them a clap (or ring bells or even play music) for a minute to thank all the medical staff and other professions (e.g., cleaners) who likewise take enormous risks and make great efforts. > > The number of beds in the hospitals has been seriously increased by creative means. The ultraliberal policy of the last decade had seriously cut down the number of beds in hospital and sent many many patients to private practice and ambulatory treatment. But the government, when declaring confinement, has also declared that medical practitioners should only do online treatment and should close their practice. Result: 3 weeks later medical authorities are very worried: many patients in serious conditions or with severe chronic diseases don?t dare to call their medical practitioner and are afraid to go to the emergency services in hospital (fear of overloading them, fear of infection by Covid and fear of being cut out from their families (not allowed in the hospital). The pronostic is a possible wave of very serious cases needing urgent and heavy treatment. This wave will put extra-pressure on the sanitary system already overburden. Meanwhile small medical units are close to bankruptcy : their have to pay the salaries of their staff but have no income to do so. > > There is also a (still small) growing concern among social scientists that the teams that reflect on the pandemic and the confinement measures (and the planning of the end of the confinement) are made up of exclusively of epidemiologists and economists (with one or two specialists in ethics). Hence the psychic and social problems of the confined population are probably underestimated. > Little is known of the underprivileged part of the population, now unemployed, in small housing, with little outreach. Schooling has gone online in a fortnight (with absolutely no preparation) but many students don?t have connections or share the unique computer of the household with parents and siblings all supposedly on line. > > This is only a few elements that characterise the situation. In parallel, many citizens are becoming increasingly aware of the dangers of the total interdependence of the economy and of the ecological disasters that this creates. Sanitary disasters and ecological disasters are much more interrelated than expected (a very nice book to understand that biological processes and ways of life social life are interdependent: Rob Dunn "Never home alone. From Microbes to Millipedes, Camel Crickets, and Honeybees, the Natural History of Where We Live"). > > There are also plenty of many nice examples of solidarity, creativity, etc. They need to converge and be made visible. > > We (MAPS in University of Neuch?tel) are engaging in a large inquiry based on Bruno Latour?s call (March 29, 2020): "A little exercise to make sure that, after the virus crisis, things don?t start again as they were before" (see http://www.bruno-latour.fr/node/852.html with already versions in English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Polish, German, Dutch). > > Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont > > Prof. em. Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont > Institut de psychologie et ?ducation Facult? des lettres et sciences humaines > Universit? de Neuch?tel > Espace Tilo-Frey 1 (Anciennement: Espace Louis-Agassiz 1) > CH- 2000 Neuch?tel (Suisse ) > http://www.unine.ch/ipe/publications/anne_nelly_perret_clermont > > Last publications: > Perret-Clermont, A.-N., Sch?r, R., Greco, S., Convertini, J., Iannaccone, A., & Rocci, A. (2019). Shifting from a monological to a dialogical perspective on children?s argumentation. Lessons learned. In F. H. van Eemren & B. Garssen (Eds.), Argumentation in actual practice. Topical studies about argumentative discourse in context (pp. 211-236): John Benjamins Publishing Company. Version ?lectronique Iannaccone, A., Perret-Clermont, A.-N., & Convertini, J. (2019). Children as investigators of Brunerian ?Possible worlds?. The role of narrative scenarios in children?s argumentative thinking. . Integrative Psychological and Behiavioral Science, 53, 679-693. Version ?lectronique > Perret-Clermont, A.-N., Perret, J.-F., Pochon, L.-O., & Marro, P. (2019). Hommage ? Jacques Perriault. Hermes, La Revue, 3, 226-226. > In J.-P. Fragni?re (Ed.), Agir et penser avec Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont (pp. 71-107). Lausanne: Editions Socialinfo https://www.socialinfo.ch/les-livres/38-agir-et-penser-avec-anne-nelly-perret-clermont.html > > > > > > > -- > Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a landslide. Roy D'Andrade > --------------------------------------------------- > For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit > lchc.ucsd.edu . For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu . > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200412/4b3f2a1a/attachment.html From Peg.Griffin@att.net Sun Apr 12 11:52:46 2020 From: Peg.Griffin@att.net (Peg Griffin, Ph.D.) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 14:52:46 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in In-Reply-To: <89F1C95A-CC3A-4B19-A839-2ACD951FB13D@uio.no> References: <89F1C95A-CC3A-4B19-A839-2ACD951FB13D@uio.no> Message-ID: <000001d610fb$8ffb38d0$aff1aa70$@att.net> Thank you for clarifying, Alfredo! From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Alfredo Jornet Gil Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2020 6:58 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in (I do not think there?s been an e-mail from Beth in xmca recently. We?ve been referring to exchanges with her in other fora here, about her experiences in Brooklyn during the pandemic, but has there been an e-mail by her to this list? If yes, I?ve missed it too, but I doubt it.) Alfredo From: > on behalf of Greg Thompson > Reply to: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Date: Sunday, 12 April 2020 at 00:51 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in Two more notes, one on the list-serve and a question for Liz Fein: 1. I frequently will get responses to a thread that will not be included with the thread (Liz' response was one such response). Also, I did not get Beth Ferholt's initial email either. 2. Liz! You said that your students are increasingly feeling a pull toward the question: "how we can change psychotherapies to be social and revolutionary so that patients can insist that people in their worlds change with them?" That sounds to me like a fantastic question. Even without the political import (which I applaud), this goes right to the heart of what I like to think is a central episteme of CHAT - the inseparability of figure/ground (of form/content, substance/style, etc.) - esp. with regard to the sacrosanct and inviolate ("hypostatized" as some anthros like to say) individual psychological subject. And so I'd love to hear more about your on-the-ground-experiences of this. Assuming that there are some common threads among your students, can you say what kinds of revolutions your students feel pulled toward? In other words, HOW do they imagine the world changing "with" their patients? What kinds of changes do they see as necessary? I'm a pessimist about these kinds of things, so what you describe gives me a glimmer of hope! -greg On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 11:58 AM Dr. Elizabeth Fein > wrote: Hello Annalie - I am thinking about this question a lot also: "how we can change psychotherapies to be social and revolutionary so that patients can insist that people in their worlds change with them?" Many of the graduate students that I supervise on their psychotherapy cases feel an ongoing pull in this direction, and we talk and write about it often, but it often feels hard to get traction around instantiating it in our work, even as the in-house clinic within our department is very flexible and open to many different explorations. I am listening with you. Elizabeth On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 10:01 AM Annalie Pistorius > wrote: Hi im still here with you. Sitting together is something to do. Our university had shut down before the lockdown here in South Africa ? our students and SRC being medical students have taken charge the way they usually do. I must say they always impress me, how they can manoeuvre all staff when there is a leadership crisis. However now with the Corona world crisis, I am impressed how everyone here including our leaders stand firm and together, herding us and being giving to poor communities. I watch BBC world news almost every day, and was impressed to see that even in Cape Town our gang members have started using their leadership to organise and direct the handing out of food parcels to their community members. Of cause, not everyone is seeing all of this as positive as I am painting it here. I am reminded of the bitter sweetness of the situation, by my patient (with whom I am doing psychotherapy sessions on my cell phone at a very high cost, don?t ask me why not on internet), that his problem of stress, headaches and severe depression is dissolving because he is not at work. No-one shouting into his ears, the voices of critique fading?Now what should be done so that when he goes back his problem continues to dissolve? Is this our moment to build onto? ? how we can change psychotherapies to be social and revolutionary so that patients can insist that people in their worlds change with them? That?s why I am here listening. Greetings Annalie From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > On Behalf Of Alfredo Jornet Gil Sent: Saturday, 11 April 2020 10:58 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? The list of xmca members is indeed long! Here is a link to the list: http://lchc-resources.org/xmca/subscriber_list.php Alfredo From: > on behalf of Helena Worthen > Reply to: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Date: Friday, 10 April 2020 at 22:11 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? This is a gracefully written New Yorker-worthy piece of dark dystopian fiction. I would like to start up the whole Utopia discussion again, which I never felt clamped its teeth down hard enough.Thanks, David. I am seeing responses from David Kellogg, Peg Griffin, Mike Cole, Greg Thompson, Rein Raud in Estonia, David Kirshner, Ed Wall, Henry Shoner, Andy Blunden, Martin Packer in Bogota, Richard Beach ? who did I miss? There are more of us out there. I worry about Haydi in Iran. I am swamped with Zoom, telephone and email. Rather than clog up this list I?ll re-visit my blog (below) just in case anyone reads it ? this is with regards to the price of vegetables, David Kellogg. Other than that: the book about contingency goes back through 4 past transitions in higher education: standardization (Carnegie, SATs etc); expansion (the GI bill); the Movement era (civil rights, 1968, etc) and then the neoliberal contraction, for which the explosion of contingency (no job security/no academic freedom, crap wages) was a solution to a set of interlocking administrative problems. WE then go into a lot of detail about what organizing unions for faculty and campus workers in higher education is like. Thanks for asking, David. I?m doing Zoom piano lessons for grandchildren, in hopes that they will come out of this with at least one skill that is useful to humanity. Also working with DSA (Democratic Socialists of America) to lead reading groups about the recent wave of teacher strikes. Still owe Andy a review of his Hegel book; thanks for uploading the difference between Hegel and Marx paper, Andy. There are still some more xmca-ers out there that haven't checked in. Helena Worthen 21 San MAteo Road, Berkeley 94707 510-828-2745 helenaworthen.wordpress.com On Apr 10, 2020, at 12:39 PM, mike cole > wrote: The new samizdat, David? mike On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 10:31 AM David H Kirshner > wrote: Here?s a fictional reminder of what more may be at stake in the current political era. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/04/06/love-letter David From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > On Behalf Of Peg Griffin, Ph.D. Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 11:55 AM To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Henry, Only thing I know for sure about any bill is this: If it doesn?t serve well the top 1%, then McConnell won?t have it come to the floor for a vote in the Senate, so many reasonably good bills are never enacted and no Senator or President need be held accountable about their opposition. But, what I know about intersectional groups in the past few years is that we have to reach out in any and all ways possible to be sure we do not step on each other?s messages, actions, and needs, and to be sure we have ways of getting and giving timely support as allies. It sounds wimpy for a bumper sticker, but I wish I had one that said ?Protect Fragile Solidarity!? I think we may be inching in that awkward direction though: SPLC has normalized the bumper sticker, ?Restore the Vote.? Peg From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 12:05 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Peg, I really don?t know anymore about life on the Rez now than what I read on line, what I have heard on Native America Calling on our local public radio station KUNM and what I hear from my Navajo Family near Shiprock. So far, no one in my family there is sick. I have no insider information that might help pull the right strings in DC. Deb Haaland sends out regular bulletins describing what she is doing to benefit all New Mexicans, no specific mention of what?s happening on the Navajo. You know more about the bills than I do! Henry On Apr 9, 2020, at 2:36 PM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. > wrote: Henry, may I ask you to discuss Co-Vid 19 in the Navajo Nation? From news reports the Nation seems to be proactive, trying new and old ways of proceeding. But, in comparison to nearby states, more and deeper problems faced with fewer and less stable resources? DC got robbed in the second bailout bill ? way underfunded. Plans are getting formed and deformed about pushing for fixes in the next bill (now in messes in both House and Senate). Do you know if there are any Navajo plans that DC folk can support, maybe learn from (or at least stop from inadvertently stepping on?) Is staff in Deb Haaland?s office in the HOB a good place to try to find out or ?? A good fantasy about November, Henry. Somehow, it reminds me of the early days in the Fifth Dimension. The children engaged in transformational journeys, taking their avatars through rooms in a table top maze, choosing which of several openings they would use as entry and eventual exit, choosing which of different tasks in the room to do (harder tasks coupled with more choice over which exits from room they could use), collaborating with peers and lovely Big Sisters and Brothers, and there was always the Wizard ?guardian or trickster or sometimes asleep at the wheel. At an exit, avatars transformed and children went to the creature store to pick the token of the transformation to travel with if they chose to enter the 5th D again. But there was also a different world with university and public school calendars and rites of passage. At times for seams important to that world, the children got shirts screen-printed with words ranging from ?I conquered the 5thdimension? ?I barely survived the 5th Dimension? ?I almost survived the 5th Dimension? and so on ?I?m in the middle? ?I?m just starting?? A child reviewed the prior period of time, negotiating which words would be on their shirt. (Of all the weird things in the 5th D, Mike laughs best about the carefully differentiated shirts.) So, how about you and I in the here(s) and now(s)? We make choice after choice after choice and work hard at enough to transform the current elected officials to try to choose better creatures as we exit this iteration of a government and enter again for choices and tasks in the next iteration. Concurrently, we have to keep our eye on the prize of the CoVid 19 pandemic world and survival in it. BTW, I do live inside the Beltway ? 12 blocks north and east of Union Station. The museums, the food, and the HOBs (House Office Buildings) ? as well as the SOBs across the capitol park ? all nearby, familiar sites of camaraderie for efforts, some successful and some not so much. Peg From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [ mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 7:52 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity < xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? I was born at Mercy Hospital in Washington DC. Do you actually live inside the Beltway? Great museums there and food. Scads of family from both Judy?s and my side. One of the last times I visited there, I went to Michelle?s office: She was our representative at the time. She gets around. I have this fantasy brought on by the pandemic and New Mexico?s Blue (Democratic) sweep in 2018 that brought us three kick-ass women: Governor Michelle...Representative Deborah Halland for Albuquerque and surrounds where we live (I canvassed for her in the primary!)?and Representative Xochi Small to the south. All Democrats. The fantasy is that these historic times, this perizhvanie, this Lev budding, will bear fruit in November that gets us through another narrow place. And we will celebrate. Fitting that Passover is tonight, a celebration of liberation from slavery, and a time when we recognize that we are all really strangers, wherever we live. Yikes! Talk about Biblical dialect! It?s as catching as that Corona bug! Must stay well Henry On Apr 8, 2020, at 4:27 PM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. < Peg.Griffin@att.net> wrote: I live in Washington, DC, Henry, but my roots here are by way of LCHC in San Diego which begot xlchc which begot xmca. Don?t know why I switched into a biblical dialect, but not hallucinations, just whimsy. And a little tired this evening. Did you notice how my motif in my last post turned unto motive when I sent it? I think it was Leonti?ev sneaking in. The description of your mask seems dashing! Could Judy have alternative (or ulterior) motive (or motif)? Hmmm, just recognized the 5th Dimension wanting into the lineage recital. Still no hallucination just a few sips of a nice Tuscan blend? Peg From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [ mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 5:14 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity < xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Hey Peg! Yes, I will tell Governor Michelle you?re rooting for her from where you and yours are at! Please forgive my senior moment, but where do YOU live? My wife Judy figured out how to make a mask from a bandana and two hair ties. Like I?m ready to rob the stage coach, full of ppe (personal protective equipment).:) I saw a cartoon of Trump and his underlings at one of his you-can?t-make-it-up briefings. They are wearing masks that cover nose and mouth. Trump has a Lone Ranger mask. Here?s a link for those short on Americana: https://www.pinterest.com/robertharmon311/lone-ranger-mask-patterns-for-save-ranger-challeng/ Stay safe and well! Henry On Apr 8, 2020, at 11:27 AM, Peg Griffin, Ph.D. < Peg.Griffin@att.net> wrote: Henry, please tell your governor/friend, Michelle Lujan Grisham, ?We see her, we hear her, we love her, and we know we need her.? Groups here that made good use of allies before the pandemic are making good, well-planned use of us now, especially for those in the shadows, by necessity or oversight, to address basic food and medical insecurity. And thank you, too, Henry and others on xmca. Relatively healthy (AKA no Co-vid19 that we know of and well masked ? my favorite right now is an easily washed and bleached homemade one with a blue lamb motive ? anyone need a pdf for making adult or child masks, with or without hepa-filters?) and safe, Peg From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [ mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 12:48 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity < xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Hi All, Like Greg, I was struck by Andy?s sense that China may go back to ?normal? but the neo-liberal ?first" world is and will be experiencing a profound perizhvanie. You?d hope it will be for the good. In the U.S,, generally, rates of infection are positively correlated with density of population. For example, I live in New Mexico, the fifth largest state in the U.S. with a population of a little over a one million and the lowest rate of infection?so far. However, our Navajo live spread out to the west and north of us, but have very high rates of infection. Little Zia Pueblo, just an our by car to the north and west of us, only has about a thousand people, with eleven confirmed cases. Poverty. In the country as a whole people of color have relatively higher rates of infection. Poverty. Our governor, Michelle Lujan Grisham (who I am proud to say is a good friend), has been successful in pushing baci against Trump?s efforts to punish states that did not vote for him by being less than cooperative in providing resources against the pandemic. She has been using her bully pulpit against Trump's bloviating. His hot air has got to be an infectious agent. Most of us are using masks in public, evidence indicating that it protects OTHERS by wearing them. Trump prefers NOT to wear a mask. Consistent with his politics. You can?t make this up. Be well, Henry On Apr 8, 2020, at 9:00 AM, Greg Thompson < greg.a.thompson@gmail.com> wrote: David, I wonder if you could say more about your experience of the state-based "surveillance" in SK. There are lots of different groups in the U.S., both on the left and the right, who are up in arms about the "tracking" of citizens via credit card and cell phone usage. And it sounds like this is a global concern as Mary's report from SA suggests. Also how interesting how similar the conspiracy theories are around the globe (globalization and the spread of viral ideas?). That's world perezhivanie indeed! -greg On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 3:08 PM David Kellogg < dkellogg60@gmail.com> wrote: Helena-- Situation in China, courtesy my sister-in-law: life in Beijing is pretty much back to normal at least on the face of it. People are going out to their work units (but there is more work from home than before the crisis). Classes still largely taught from ZOOM. My nephew is in Shanghai, where the situation is somewhat tighter (proximity to Wuhan). Wuhan opened up for real yesterday--people can leave (I lived there for two years in the mid-eighties, but I can barely recognize what I see on the news now....) I have students in Chengdu (who attend my class via ZOOM). People are mostly shopping on line with delivery to the gate of the housing unit rather than to their flat (as we do here in Korea). Air quality better than it's been in decades. Situation here in South Korea: We just extended our lockdown for another two weeks. This is in response to a few days of new infections over a hundred, but the infections are mostly (80%) Koreans from the US and Europe who want to live in a place where the medical system has not broken down or is not in the process of breaking down. There are still some "hotspots" of community transmission, but these are almost all connected with churches or PC cafes. Schools reopen on the 16th, but only online. We have elections in a week, and there is a lot of campaigning going on, including the usual street based campaigning (the right wing opposition campaigns around the curious notion that the government has done absolutely nothing, and the government ignores everybody who is not an actual virus). People shop in stores, and there is no panic buying or disruption of supply chains. The main changes in economic life seem to have to do with transport, and it seems like this too will be permanent (electric scooters are everywhere now). Bowing instead of shaking hands is really not a bad idea, and coffee-shops always were over-rated and over-priced.... But what about you, Helena? (One of the things I have learned on this list is that you get more or less what you give--people tend to use what you write as a model for writing back!) Are you still in Vietnam? Your address says Berkeley and your email says Illinois--those are three very different venues for the virus and the economy. Can you give us a brief account of the situation in each? Stay safe, wherever you are! David Kellogg Sangmyung University Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational action research in Mind Culture and Activity https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 Some free e-prints available at: https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 4:30 AM Martin Packer < mpacker@cantab.net> wrote: Hi Helena, I share your concerns. And, despite its challenges, this situation seems a great opportunity to apply our distributed expertise(s). I tried to get some discussion going in a group concerned with the Anthropocene, but people seemed disinclined. Martin Here?s the first message that I sent? The current situation is producing important evidence about the probable consequences of the strategies proposed to mitigate climate change. Satellites are showing significant reductions in pollution: https://www.space.com/italy-coronavirus-outbreak-response-reduces-emissions-satellite-images.html Experts are suggesting that as a result the coronavirus may save more lives than it takes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2020/03/11/coronavirus-lockdown-may-save-more-lives-from-pollution-and-climate-than-from-virus/#4a39bb3c5764 So when skeptics ask ?How can you know that reducing air travel will help with climate change?? there is now clear evidence with which to answer them. Also in China: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/04/811019032/why-chinas-air-has-been-cleaner-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak At the same time, I am starting to wonder whether the current health guidelines regarding coronvirus are culturally biased. Can they work in ?collectivist? cultures (to use the shorthand)? The CDC guidelines, for example, include the recommendations to ?Stay home when you are sick,? but also that other members of the household should ?Avoid close contact with people who are sick? and should ?Choose a room in your home that can be used to separate sick household members from those who are healthy. Identify a separate bathroom for the sick person to use, if possible.? This advice is simply not practicable for many households in Colombia. There are not enough rooms; there is no second bathroom. In addition, many infants and young children here are cared for by grandparents, or even great-grandparents (many women here have a baby when young, so an infant may have a grandmother who is in her late 30s and a great-grandmother in her late 50s). The evidence shows that children don?t become very ill, but they do get infected and they can infect other people, among whom elderly caregivers will be the most at risk. So I don?t think social distance and auto-quarantine will work in Colombia. Consider what the Chinese did: they went door-to-door to identify infected family members and removed them to massive collective quarantine setttings. People in the West considered this to be draconian, even cruel. But it made sense: much more cross-infection occurred in Chinese homes than in places like restaurants. Unless the authorities can come up with strategies that are more appropriate to local circumstances and practices, there is likely to be a rapid and elevated peak of infections in Latin American countries. And I see there is a related point here, on ageism: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200313155256.htm On Apr 7, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Helena Worthen < helenaworthen@gmail.com> wrote: Hello, XMCA-ers - I don?t remember ever having read that this list was going to shut down or even be allowed to fade away. So now I?m writing, as if in the dark, to the whole list. We?ve now got a major ? maybe ?the? major crisis of the anthropocene on our hands and the distant but connected network represented by the conversations on this list seem to me to be a treasure more precious than gold - and I?m not speaking metaphorically. I am concerned about some of the people who have been pillars and resources on his list, people whom I have reached out to over the years and heard back from with information and perspectives that I would never have been able to access on my own. Where are you now? What are you doing? Are you safe and healthy? Do you have information about friends who are unable to read or respond to this request? I hope to hear some responses to this message. Take care of yourselves, please ? Helena Helena Worthen hworthen@illinois.edu 21 San Mateo Road, Berkeley, CA 94707 -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson -- Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a landslide. Roy D'Andrade --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu . For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu . -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200412/6c456716/attachment.html From lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org Mon Apr 13 09:50:43 2020 From: lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org (Lois Holzman) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 12:50:43 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Love in the time of corona Message-ID: Hello All, Following the lead of others, I'll jump in. While NYC and state are in serious crisis and all its cultural and economic conflicts even more glaring, the vibrancy and energy has not disappeared. It's just different. As Vygotsky is purported to have said, "A revolution solves only those tasks raised by history..." History has thrown us a monster. Different too are the forces working to shape this extraordinary historical moment. Much of that shaping by those who are in positions of political and economic, etc. authority?and the pandemic itself?are creating fear and despair, both for now and the future. At the same time, the shaping being done by so many thousands of people and organizations that inspire and organize people to exercise their power and creativity for connectedness are generating hope and possibility. I feel that palpably all day long. We in the global development community are re-tooling and/or stepping up our virtual activities, many of which involve play, performance and ensemble building, not to take people's minds off what's happening, but to involve them in some "non-knowing growing" and participation in creating positive responses to what's happening that have the possibility to continue to be transformative of individuals and communities. A few examples? establishing a Global Play Brigade working across borders of nation state, culture and economy (so far performance activists from about 40 countries involved) offering Creating Connection and Building Community free play sessions via Zoom, each one originating in a different part of the world (about 150 people per session so far) taking our Creating Our Mental Health conversation/workshop series national and international in a moment when people are realizing how they feel is not inside them, not merely socially produced and organized, but social in its potential transformativity taking All Stars Project programs for poor youth and their communities in NYC, NJ, Dallas, Chicago and the Bay Area virtual If you're interested in any of this and more, let me know. And you can always check out the social media listed in my signature. Stay safe, Lois -- *Access my latest article?**Why be Half-Human? How Play, Performance and Practical Philosophy Make Us Whole **(written with Cathy Salit)?and read the rest of this marvelous book, Social Construction in Action , which you can download for free!* Lois Holzman Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX Distinguished Visiting Fellow in Vygotskian Practice and Performance, Lloyd International Honors College at The University of North Carolina at Greensboro Address: East Side Institute, Attn:Lois Holzman 119 West 23 St, suite 902 New York, NY 10011 Telephone +1.212.941.8906 x324 Mobile 1-917-815-2664 lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org Social Media Facebook | LinkedIn | Twitter Blogs Psychology Today | Psychology of Becoming | Mad in America Websites Lois Holzman | East Side Institute | Performing the World All Stars Project -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200413/63396f95/attachment.html From greg.a.thompson@gmail.com Mon Apr 13 10:17:51 2020 From: greg.a.thompson@gmail.com (Greg Thompson) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 11:17:51 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Love in the time of corona In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Lois and others, Inspiring to see all that you and ESI are doing there in the midst of this whirlwind - and in the eye of the storm no less! This comment of yours seemed to resonate with Liz' and Annalie's comments about mental health: "people are realizing how they feel is not inside them". That seems to me to be a revolutionary thought. Also, I'd ask this to you but don't want to distract you from your important work, so perhaps others can talk about how activities can be transformed in these times to adapt to this new era (I'd like to call it a "moment" but it feels bigger than that). What got me thinking of this were the Zoom sessions that Lois mentioned on Creating Connection and Building Community. The fact is that there will be new possibilities to do these things (e.g., the possibility of truly GLOBAL communities and connections - perhaps to Andy's world-perezhivanie), but the activities that enable these things will also need to be transformed and different. [I'm a bit of an idiot about these things so I'm just realizing that online classes can't just be in-person activities that are taken online. They need online activities that can build connection and community among students. Still working on that.] So I'm wondering if anyone has had any success or even just suggestions regarding how to create online activities that can realize the possibilities and potential for connection and community in online spaces? [I'm thinking really practically/locally here in terms of what can be done in my classes to build connection and community in online spaces, but the answer will, of course, be relevant to forms of cross-national solidarity, granting that there may be other challenges as well - e.g., language]. -greg On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 10:53 AM Lois Holzman < lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org> wrote: > Hello All, > > Following the lead of others, I'll jump in. While NYC and state are in > serious crisis and all its cultural and economic conflicts even more > glaring, the vibrancy and energy has not disappeared. It's just different. > > As Vygotsky is purported to have said, "A revolution solves only those > tasks raised by history..." History has thrown us a monster. > > Different too are the forces working to shape this extraordinary > historical moment. Much of that shaping by those who are in positions of > political and economic, etc. authority?and the pandemic itself?are creating > fear and despair, both for now and the future. At the same time, the > shaping being done by so many thousands of people and organizations that > inspire and organize people to exercise their power and creativity for > connectedness are generating hope and possibility. > I feel that palpably all day long. > > We in the global development community are re-tooling and/or stepping up > our virtual activities, many of which involve play, performance and > ensemble building, not to take people's minds off what's happening, but to > involve them in some "non-knowing growing" and participation in creating > positive responses to what's happening that have the possibility to > continue to be transformative of individuals and communities. A few > examples? > establishing a Global Play Brigade working across borders of > nation state, culture and economy (so far performance activists from about > 40 countries involved) > offering Creating Connection and Building Community > free > play sessions via Zoom, each one originating in a different part of the > world (about 150 people per session so far) > taking our Creating Our Mental Health conversation/workshop series > national and international in a moment when people are realizing how they > feel is not inside them, not merely socially produced and organized, but > social in its potential transformativity > taking All Stars Project programs for poor youth and their > communities in NYC, NJ, Dallas, Chicago and the Bay Area virtual > > If you're interested in any of this and more, let me know. And you can > always check out the social media listed in my signature. > > Stay safe, > Lois > > -- > *Access my latest article?**Why be Half-Human? How Play, Performance and > Practical Philosophy Make Us Whole **(written with Cathy Salit)?and read > the rest of this marvelous book, Social Construction in Action > , > which you can download for free!* > > > Lois Holzman > Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy > Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX > Distinguished Visiting Fellow in Vygotskian Practice and Performance, > Lloyd International Honors College at The University of North Carolina at > Greensboro > Address: East Side Institute, Attn:Lois Holzman > 119 West 23 St, suite 902 > New York, NY 10011 > Telephone +1.212.941.8906 x324 > Mobile 1-917-815-2664 > > lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org > Social Media > Facebook | LinkedIn > | Twitter > > Blogs > Psychology Today > | Psychology > of Becoming | Mad in America > > Websites > Lois Holzman | East Side Institute > | Performing the World > > All Stars Project > > > > -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200413/f34d8022/attachment.html From helenaworthen@gmail.com Mon Apr 13 11:05:19 2020 From: helenaworthen@gmail.com (Helena Worthen) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 11:05:19 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Love in the time of corona In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: OK, I?ll speak up! I?m responding to Greg?s question, "So I'm wondering if anyone has had any success or even just suggestions regarding how to create online activities that can realize the possibilities and potential for connection and community in online spaces?? I taught online for U of Illinois for well, 3 or 4 years at least after they started offering a minor in Labor Studies. I also taught on line for the National Labor College, a small college physically located in Silver Spring MD and founded by the AFL CIO but mostly supported by major unions. It went under in about 2014. Labor education is very applied; there?s theory, history and ?facts? to learn, but the test of the education program itself is what the students/learners can and actually go out and do with it. Teaching on-line really weakened any chance that students would do anything together except read and write and, best case scenario, make friends with each other off-line. So in the for-credit minor program at U of Illinois, our labor education classes lost their ?applied? aspect and became learn-to-pass-the test classes. For the NLC, because some students were members of the same union or in some other labor formation (like a city labor federation), what they learned could actually be taken out and applied in practice. When they showed up at their union meeting with a proposal for some new approach, they would be able to explain the idea bouncing it back and forth together and had a chance of getting it across. But the situation in a regular face-to-face classroom, where the whole group learns something together and then undergoes discontinuous change (I think that?s a term from Bateson) - a leap - and goes out and does some action that the teacher had not envisioned ? that sure would be next to impossible to cook up on line. Unless it was in the context of a social movement, which actually might be what?s happening right now, come to think of it. Realistically, I think that on line education at its best can set up an each-one-teach-one situation, where all the learners take on so much of the responsibility for managing their own learning that they can be conceived of as in training to go teach the content themselves to someone not in the class. The mind boggles. Would this mean high school kids teaching their parents? Of course, kids went into the mountains in Cuba and Nicaragua - and Vietnam, actually - to teach adults during the literacy campaigns. Good luck!!! Helena helenaworthen.wordpress.com Helena Worthen h elenaworthen@gmail.com > On Apr 13, 2020, at 10:17 AM, Greg Thompson wrote: > > Lois and others, > > Inspiring to see all that you and ESI are doing there in the midst of this whirlwind - and in the eye of the storm no less! > > This comment of yours seemed to resonate with Liz' and Annalie's comments about mental health: > "people are realizing how they feel is not inside them". > > That seems to me to be a revolutionary thought. > > Also, I'd ask this to you but don't want to distract you from your important work, so perhaps others can talk about how activities can be transformed in these times to adapt to this new era (I'd like to call it a "moment" but it feels bigger than that). > > What got me thinking of this were the Zoom sessions that Lois mentioned on Creating Connection and Building Community. The fact is that there will be new possibilities to do these things (e.g., the possibility of truly GLOBAL communities and connections - perhaps to Andy's world-perezhivanie), but the activities that enable these things will also need to be transformed and different. > > [I'm a bit of an idiot about these things so I'm just realizing that online classes can't just be in-person activities that are taken online. They need online activities that can build connection and community among students. Still working on that.] > > So I'm wondering if anyone has had any success or even just suggestions regarding how to create online activities that can realize the possibilities and potential for connection and community in online spaces? > > [I'm thinking really practically/locally here in terms of what can be done in my classes to build connection and community in online spaces, but the answer will, of course, be relevant to forms of cross-national solidarity, granting that there may be other challenges as well - e.g., language]. > > -greg > > > > On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 10:53 AM Lois Holzman > wrote: > Hello All, > > Following the lead of others, I'll jump in. While NYC and state are in serious crisis and all its cultural and economic conflicts even more glaring, the vibrancy and energy has not disappeared. It's just different. > > As Vygotsky is purported to have said, "A revolution solves only those tasks raised by history..." History has thrown us a monster. > > Different too are the forces working to shape this extraordinary historical moment. Much of that shaping by those who are in positions of political and economic, etc. authority?and the pandemic itself?are creating fear and despair, both for now and the future. At the same time, the shaping being done by so many thousands of people and organizations that inspire and organize people to exercise their power and creativity for connectedness are generating hope and possibility. > I feel that palpably all day long. > > We in the global development community are re-tooling and/or stepping up our virtual activities, many of which involve play, performance and ensemble building, not to take people's minds off what's happening, but to involve them in some "non-knowing growing" and participation in creating positive responses to what's happening that have the possibility to continue to be transformative of individuals and communities. A few examples? > establishing a Global Play Brigade working across borders of nation state, culture and economy (so far performance activists from about 40 countries involved) > offering Creating Connection and Building Community free play sessions via Zoom, each one originating in a different part of the world (about 150 people per session so far) > taking our Creating Our Mental Health conversation/workshop series national and international in a moment when people are realizing how they feel is not inside them, not merely socially produced and organized, but social in its potential transformativity > taking All Stars Project programs for poor youth and their communities in NYC, NJ, Dallas, Chicago and the Bay Area virtual > > If you're interested in any of this and more, let me know. And you can always check out the social media listed in my signature. > > Stay safe, > Lois > > -- > Access my latest article?Why be Half-Human? How Play, Performance and Practical Philosophy Make Us Whole (written with Cathy Salit)?and read the rest of this marvelous book, Social Construction in Action , which you can download for free! > > > Lois Holzman > Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy > Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX > Distinguished Visiting Fellow in Vygotskian Practice and Performance, Lloyd International Honors College at The University of North Carolina at Greensboro > Address: East Side Institute, Attn:Lois Holzman > 119 West 23 St, suite 902 > New York, NY 10011 > Telephone +1.212.941.8906 x324 > Mobile 1-917-815-2664 > > lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org > Social Media > Facebook? | LinkedIn | Twitter > Blogs > Psychology Today | Psychology of Becoming | Mad in America > Websites > Lois Holzman | East Side?Institute | Performing the World > All Stars Project > > > > > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200413/97c70383/attachment.html From a.j.gil@ils.uio.no Mon Apr 13 12:57:45 2020 From: a.j.gil@ils.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 19:57:45 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Love in the time of corona In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Really wonderful initiatives of retooling/stepping up virtual activity, very inspiring and helpful, Lois. I was drawn by the ?love? in your post?s subject, and then was looking for the term again in the body of your message, but could not find it. I thought then that ?non-knowing growing? and the generating of ?hope and possibility? was it. Thanks for sharing. Interesting connection between your group?s therapeutic approach to the situation and recent characterizations of the current situation as a world-perezhivanie. Alfredo From: on behalf of Lois Holzman Reply to: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Date: Monday, 13 April 2020 at 18:56 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Subject: [Xmca-l] Love in the time of corona Hello All, Following the lead of others, I'll jump in. While NYC and state are in serious crisis and all its cultural and economic conflicts even more glaring, the vibrancy and energy has not disappeared. It's just different. As Vygotsky is purported to have said, "A revolution solves only those tasks raised by history..." History has thrown us a monster. Different too are the forces working to shape this extraordinary historical moment. Much of that shaping by those who are in positions of political and economic, etc. authority?and the pandemic itself?are creating fear and despair, both for now and the future. At the same time, the shaping being done by so many thousands of people and organizations that inspire and organize people to exercise their power and creativity for connectedness are generating hope and possibility. I feel that palpably all day long. We in the global development community are re-tooling and/or stepping up our virtual activities, many of which involve play, performance and ensemble building, not to take people's minds off what's happening, but to involve them in some "non-knowing growing" and participation in creating positive responses to what's happening that have the possibility to continue to be transformative of individuals and communities. A few examples? establishing a Global Play Brigade working across borders of nation state, culture and economy (so far performance activists from about 40 countries involved) offering Creating Connection and Building Community free play sessions via Zoom, each one originating in a different part of the world (about 150 people per session so far) taking our Creating Our Mental Health conversation/workshop series national and international in a moment when people are realizing how they feel is not inside them, not merely socially produced and organized, but social in its potential transformativity taking All Stars Project programs for poor youth and their communities in NYC, NJ, Dallas, Chicago and the Bay Area virtual If you're interested in any of this and more, let me know. And you can always check out the social media listed in my signature. Stay safe, Lois -- Access my latest article?Why be Half-Human? How Play, Performance and Practical Philosophy Make Us Whole (written with Cathy Salit)?and read the rest of this marvelous book, Social Construction in Action, which you can download for free! Lois Holzman Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX Distinguished Visiting Fellow in Vygotskian Practice and Performance, Lloyd International Honors College at The University of North Carolina at Greensboro Address: East Side Institute, Attn:Lois Holzman 119 West 23 St, suite 902 New York, NY 10011 Telephone +1.212.941.8906 x324 Mobile 1-917-815-2664 lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org Social Media Facebook | LinkedIn| Twitter Blogs Psychology Today| Psychology of Becoming | Mad in America Websites Lois Holzman | East Side Institute | Performing the World All Stars Project -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200413/3c72ad2e/attachment.html From ewall@umich.edu Mon Apr 13 13:06:15 2020 From: ewall@umich.edu (Edward Wall) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 15:06:15 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Love in the time of corona In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In ?theory? connection and community is doable online. Possible the ?doable? might best be addressed by somebody like James Gee who used to frequent this list. The difficulty would be, in my opinion, to recruit the necessary very, very creative people. It is not that there haven?t been interesting attempts; I was just looking around to see what has been done lately. Ed Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is. > On Apr 13, 2020, at 12:17 PM, Greg Thompson wrote: > > Lois and others, > > Inspiring to see all that you and ESI are doing there in the midst of this whirlwind - and in the eye of the storm no less! > > This comment of yours seemed to resonate with Liz' and Annalie's comments about mental health: > "people are realizing how they feel is not inside them". > > That seems to me to be a revolutionary thought. > > Also, I'd ask this to you but don't want to distract you from your important work, so perhaps others can talk about how activities can be transformed in these times to adapt to this new era (I'd like to call it a "moment" but it feels bigger than that). > > What got me thinking of this were the Zoom sessions that Lois mentioned on Creating Connection and Building Community. The fact is that there will be new possibilities to do these things (e.g., the possibility of truly GLOBAL communities and connections - perhaps to Andy's world-perezhivanie), but the activities that enable these things will also need to be transformed and different. > > [I'm a bit of an idiot about these things so I'm just realizing that online classes can't just be in-person activities that are taken online. They need online activities that can build connection and community among students. Still working on that.] > > So I'm wondering if anyone has had any success or even just suggestions regarding how to create online activities that can realize the possibilities and potential for connection and community in online spaces? > > [I'm thinking really practically/locally here in terms of what can be done in my classes to build connection and community in online spaces, but the answer will, of course, be relevant to forms of cross-national solidarity, granting that there may be other challenges as well - e.g., language]. > > -greg > > > > On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 10:53 AM Lois Holzman > wrote: > Hello All, > > Following the lead of others, I'll jump in. While NYC and state are in serious crisis and all its cultural and economic conflicts even more glaring, the vibrancy and energy has not disappeared. It's just different. > > As Vygotsky is purported to have said, "A revolution solves only those tasks raised by history..." History has thrown us a monster. > > Different too are the forces working to shape this extraordinary historical moment. Much of that shaping by those who are in positions of political and economic, etc. authority?and the pandemic itself?are creating fear and despair, both for now and the future. At the same time, the shaping being done by so many thousands of people and organizations that inspire and organize people to exercise their power and creativity for connectedness are generating hope and possibility. > I feel that palpably all day long. > > We in the global development community are re-tooling and/or stepping up our virtual activities, many of which involve play, performance and ensemble building, not to take people's minds off what's happening, but to involve them in some "non-knowing growing" and participation in creating positive responses to what's happening that have the possibility to continue to be transformative of individuals and communities. A few examples? > establishing a Global Play Brigade working across borders of nation state, culture and economy (so far performance activists from about 40 countries involved) > offering Creating Connection and Building Community free play sessions via Zoom, each one originating in a different part of the world (about 150 people per session so far) > taking our Creating Our Mental Health conversation/workshop series national and international in a moment when people are realizing how they feel is not inside them, not merely socially produced and organized, but social in its potential transformativity > taking All Stars Project programs for poor youth and their communities in NYC, NJ, Dallas, Chicago and the Bay Area virtual > > If you're interested in any of this and more, let me know. And you can always check out the social media listed in my signature. > > Stay safe, > Lois > > -- > Access my latest article?Why be Half-Human? How Play, Performance and Practical Philosophy Make Us Whole (written with Cathy Salit)?and read the rest of this marvelous book, Social Construction in Action , which you can download for free! > > > Lois Holzman > Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy > Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX > Distinguished Visiting Fellow in Vygotskian Practice and Performance, Lloyd International Honors College at The University of North Carolina at Greensboro > Address: East Side Institute, Attn:Lois Holzman > 119 West 23 St, suite 902 > New York, NY 10011 > Telephone +1.212.941.8906 x324 > Mobile 1-917-815-2664 > > lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org > Social Media > Facebook? | LinkedIn | Twitter > Blogs > Psychology Today | Psychology of Becoming | Mad in America > Websites > Lois Holzman | East Side?Institute | Performing the World > All Stars Project > > > > > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200413/38bc17e7/attachment.html From julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk Mon Apr 13 13:13:13 2020 From: julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk (Julian Williams) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 20:13:13 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Love in the time of corona In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0035E7BD-D4C5-4EC4-8F8A-96AD8AD65BF4@manchester.ac.uk> I expect you have all seen this: if so, apologies for boring you https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/04/06/love-letter Let?s not focus on ?coping? so much that we lose the really important political lessons from this experience: international markets ut of control, nationalist politics, racism-imperialism, media and bad-science, viral infection in all left parties, ? Julian Ps Here the news today (in the left ? totally ignored by mainstream media so far) has been the way the right of the Labour Party worked to LOSE the 2017 election, so they could remove Corbyn. Since which time their nefarious activities have intensified around the Anti-Semitism issue, driving international socialists (disproportionately many actually Jewish) to despair. If similar in the US, turn your attention to the real enemies in the Democrat Party ? there is no doubt a similar conspiracy against Sanders there. From: on behalf of Alfredo Jornet Gil Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Date: Monday, 13 April 2020 at 21:00 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Love in the time of corona Really wonderful initiatives of retooling/stepping up virtual activity, very inspiring and helpful, Lois. I was drawn by the ?love? in your post?s subject, and then was looking for the term again in the body of your message, but could not find it. I thought then that ?non-knowing growing? and the generating of ?hope and possibility? was it. Thanks for sharing. Interesting connection between your group?s therapeutic approach to the situation and recent characterizations of the current situation as a world-perezhivanie. Alfredo From: on behalf of Lois Holzman Reply to: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Date: Monday, 13 April 2020 at 18:56 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Subject: [Xmca-l] Love in the time of corona Hello All, Following the lead of others, I'll jump in. While NYC and state are in serious crisis and all its cultural and economic conflicts even more glaring, the vibrancy and energy has not disappeared. It's just different. As Vygotsky is purported to have said, "A revolution solves only those tasks raised by history..." History has thrown us a monster. Different too are the forces working to shape this extraordinary historical moment. Much of that shaping by those who are in positions of political and economic, etc. authority?and the pandemic itself?are creating fear and despair, both for now and the future. At the same time, the shaping being done by so many thousands of people and organizations that inspire and organize people to exercise their power and creativity for connectedness are generating hope and possibility. I feel that palpably all day long. We in the global development community are re-tooling and/or stepping up our virtual activities, many of which involve play, performance and ensemble building, not to take people's minds off what's happening, but to involve them in some "non-knowing growing" and participation in creating positive responses to what's happening that have the possibility to continue to be transformative of individuals and communities. A few examples? establishing a Global Play Brigade working across borders of nation state, culture and economy (so far performance activists from about 40 countries involved) offering Creating Connection and Building Community free play sessions via Zoom, each one originating in a different part of the world (about 150 people per session so far) taking our Creating Our Mental Health conversation/workshop series national and international in a moment when people are realizing how they feel is not inside them, not merely socially produced and organized, but social in its potential transformativity taking All Stars Project programs for poor youth and their communities in NYC, NJ, Dallas, Chicago and the Bay Area virtual If you're interested in any of this and more, let me know. And you can always check out the social media listed in my signature. Stay safe, Lois -- Access my latest article?Why be Half-Human? How Play, Performance and Practical Philosophy Make Us Whole (written with Cathy Salit)?and read the rest of this marvelous book, Social Construction in Action, which you can download for free! Lois Holzman Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX Distinguished Visiting Fellow in Vygotskian Practice and Performance, Lloyd International Honors College at The University of North Carolina at Greensboro Address: East Side Institute, Attn:Lois Holzman 119 West 23 St, suite 902 New York, NY 10011 Telephone +1.212.941.8906 x324 Mobile 1-917-815-2664 lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org Social Media Facebook | LinkedIn| Twitter Blogs Psychology Today| Psychology of Becoming | Mad in America Websites Lois Holzman | East Side Institute | Performing the World All Stars Project -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200413/890cd1ce/attachment.html From lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org Mon Apr 13 13:17:44 2020 From: lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org (Lois Holzman) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 16:17:44 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Love in the time of corona In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Greg, Thank you for asking. Our Institute has been using virtual platforms for creating learning-and-development environments for maybe ten years. Zoom and What's app have transformed the work, the sociality, the learning and the enjoyment exponentially, for everyone. Zoom allows breakout rooms and ongoing written chats along with the everybody seeing and hearing each other at the same time, lending itself to artistic, creative and group of different size building activities. Some really simple ways to build community and create connection? at the beginning of a class session... everyone invited to share two emotions they're feeling with a gesture one by one everyone asked to grab something in the room they're in and show it and tell about it one by one (or grab something blue, yellow, etc. everyone asked to make eye contact with everyone else (takes a minute or two depending on how large the group is) Resources ? there's tons of stuff online and here's a few folks who do this kind of thing in their university teaching and have many, many more ideas: Carrie Lobman, who is here in xmca Tony Perone, University of Washington Tacoma Omar Ali, Univ North Carolina Greensboro and the entire Honors College there Raquel Holmes, improvscience.org Jim Martinez, NY Institute Technology I'm sure any one of them would be happy to chat with you, Lois On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 1:21 PM Greg Thompson wrote: > Lois and others, > > Inspiring to see all that you and ESI are doing there in the midst of this > whirlwind - and in the eye of the storm no less! > > This comment of yours seemed to resonate with Liz' and Annalie's comments > about mental health: > "people are realizing how they feel is not inside them". > > That seems to me to be a revolutionary thought. > > Also, I'd ask this to you but don't want to distract you from your > important work, so perhaps others can talk about how activities can be > transformed in these times to adapt to this new era (I'd like to call it a > "moment" but it feels bigger than that). > > What got me thinking of this were the Zoom sessions that Lois mentioned on > Creating Connection and Building Community. The fact is that there will be > new possibilities to do these things (e.g., the possibility of truly GLOBAL > communities and connections - perhaps to Andy's world-perezhivanie), but > the activities that enable these things will also need to be transformed > and different. > > [I'm a bit of an idiot about these things so I'm just realizing that > online classes can't just be in-person activities that are taken online. > They need online activities that can build connection and community among > students. Still working on that.] > > So I'm wondering if anyone has had any success or even just suggestions > regarding how to create online activities that can realize the > possibilities and potential for connection and community in online spaces? > > [I'm thinking really practically/locally here in terms of what can be done > in my classes to build connection and community in online spaces, but the > answer will, of course, be relevant to forms of cross-national solidarity, > granting that there may be other challenges as well - e.g., language]. > > -greg > > > > On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 10:53 AM Lois Holzman < > lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org> wrote: > >> Hello All, >> >> Following the lead of others, I'll jump in. While NYC and state are in >> serious crisis and all its cultural and economic conflicts even more >> glaring, the vibrancy and energy has not disappeared. It's >> just different. >> >> As Vygotsky is purported to have said, "A revolution solves only those >> tasks raised by history..." History has thrown us a monster. >> >> Different too are the forces working to shape this extraordinary >> historical moment. Much of that shaping by those who are in positions of >> political and economic, etc. authority?and the pandemic itself?are creating >> fear and despair, both for now and the future. At the same time, the >> shaping being done by so many thousands of people and organizations that >> inspire and organize people to exercise their power and creativity for >> connectedness are generating hope and possibility. >> I feel that palpably all day long. >> >> We in the global development community are re-tooling and/or stepping up >> our virtual activities, many of which involve play, performance and >> ensemble building, not to take people's minds off what's happening, but to >> involve them in some "non-knowing growing" and participation in creating >> positive responses to what's happening that have the possibility to >> continue to be transformative of individuals and communities. A few >> examples? >> establishing a Global Play Brigade working across borders of >> nation state, culture and economy (so far performance activists from about >> 40 countries involved) >> offering Creating Connection and Building Community >> free >> play sessions via Zoom, each one originating in a different part of the >> world (about 150 people per session so far) >> taking our Creating Our Mental Health conversation/workshop series >> national and international in a moment when people are realizing how they >> feel is not inside them, not merely socially produced and organized, but >> social in its potential transformativity >> taking All Stars Project programs for poor youth and their >> communities in NYC, NJ, Dallas, Chicago and the Bay Area virtual >> >> If you're interested in any of this and more, let me know. And you can >> always check out the social media listed in my signature. >> >> Stay safe, >> Lois >> >> -- >> *Access my latest article?**Why be Half-Human? How Play, Performance and >> Practical Philosophy Make Us Whole **(written with Cathy Salit)?and read >> the rest of this marvelous book, Social Construction in Action >> , >> which you can download for free!* >> >> >> Lois Holzman >> Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy >> Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX >> Distinguished Visiting Fellow in Vygotskian Practice and Performance, >> Lloyd International Honors College at The University of North Carolina at >> Greensboro >> Address: East Side Institute, Attn:Lois Holzman >> 119 West 23 St, suite 902 >> New York, NY 10011 >> Telephone +1.212.941.8906 x324 >> Mobile 1-917-815-2664 >> >> lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org >> Social Media >> Facebook | LinkedIn >> | Twitter >> >> Blogs >> Psychology Today >> | Psychology >> of Becoming | Mad in America >> >> Websites >> Lois Holzman | East Side Institute >> | Performing the World >> >> All Stars Project >> >> >> >> > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > -- *Access my latest article?**Why be Half-Human? How Play, Performance and Practical Philosophy Make Us Whole **(written with Cathy Salit)?and read the rest of this marvelous book, Social Construction in Action , which you can download for free!* Lois Holzman Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX Distinguished Visiting Fellow in Vygotskian Practice and Performance, Lloyd International Honors College at The University of North Carolina at Greensboro Address: East Side Institute, Attn:Lois Holzman 119 West 23 St, suite 902 New York, NY 10011 Telephone +1.212.941.8906 x324 Mobile 1-917-815-2664 lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org Social Media Facebook | LinkedIn | Twitter Blogs Psychology Today | Psychology of Becoming | Mad in America Websites Lois Holzman | East Side Institute | Performing the World All Stars Project -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200413/d972203f/attachment.html From lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org Mon Apr 13 13:27:22 2020 From: lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org (Lois Holzman) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 16:27:22 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Love in the time of corona In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks, Alfredo! I never did read Love in the Time of Cholera, but for days 'love in the time of corona" has been with me constantly. And yes, I do think it has lots to do with the outpouring creative connection taking place...love by virtue of creating together. Lois On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 3:59 PM Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > Really wonderful initiatives of retooling/stepping up virtual activity, > very inspiring and helpful, Lois. > > > > I was drawn by the ?love? in your post?s subject, and then was looking for > the term again in the body of your message, but could not find it. I > thought then that ?non-knowing growing? and the generating of ?hope and > possibility? was it. Thanks for sharing. > > > > Interesting connection between your group?s therapeutic approach to the > situation and recent characterizations of the current situation as a > world-perezhivanie. > > Alfredo > > *From: * on behalf of Lois Holzman < > lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org> > *Reply to: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > *Date: *Monday, 13 April 2020 at 18:56 > *To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Love in the time of corona > > > > Hello All, > > > > Following the lead of others, I'll jump in. While NYC and state are in > serious crisis and all its cultural and economic conflicts even more > glaring, the vibrancy and energy has not disappeared. It's just different. > > > > As Vygotsky is purported to have said, "A revolution solves only those > tasks raised by history..." History has thrown us a monster. > > > > Different too are the forces working to shape this extraordinary > historical moment. Much of that shaping by those who are in positions of > political and economic, etc. authority?and the pandemic itself?are creating > fear and despair, both for now and the future. At the same time, the > shaping being done by so many thousands of people and organizations that > inspire and organize people to exercise their power and creativity for > connectedness are generating hope and possibility. > > I feel that palpably all day long. > > > > We in the global development community are re-tooling and/or stepping up > our virtual activities, many of which involve play, performance and > ensemble building, not to take people's minds off what's happening, but to > involve them in some "non-knowing growing" and participation in creating > positive responses to what's happening that have the possibility to > continue to be transformative of individuals and communities. A few > examples? > > establishing a Global Play Brigade working across borders of > nation state, culture and economy (so far performance activists from about > 40 countries involved) > > offering Creating Connection and Building Community > free > play sessions via Zoom, each one originating in a different part of the > world (about 150 people per session so far) > > taking our Creating Our Mental Health conversation/workshop series > national and international in a moment when people are realizing how they > feel is not inside them, not merely socially produced and organized, but > social in its potential transformativity > > taking All Stars Project programs for poor youth and their > communities in NYC, NJ, Dallas, Chicago and the Bay Area virtual > > > > If you're interested in any of this and more, let me know. And you can > always check out the social media listed in my signature. > > > > Stay safe, > > Lois > > > > -- > > *Access my latest article?**Why be Half-Human? How Play, Performance and > Practical Philosophy Make Us Whole **(written with Cathy Salit)?and read > the rest of this marvelous book, Social Construction in Action > , > which you can download for free!* > > > > > > Lois Holzman > Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy > > Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX > > Distinguished Visiting Fellow in Vygotskian Practice and Performance, > Lloyd International Honors College at The University of North Carolina at > Greensboro > > Address: East Side Institute, Attn:Lois Holzman > > 119 West 23 St, suite 902 > > New York, NY 10011 > > Telephone +1.212.941.8906 x324 > > Mobile 1-917-815-2664 > > lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org > Social Media > Facebook | LinkedIn > | Twitter > > Blogs > Psychology Today > | Psychology > of Becoming | Mad in America > > Websites > Lois Holzman | East Side Institute > | Performing the World > > All Stars Project > > > -- *Access my latest article?**Why be Half-Human? How Play, Performance and Practical Philosophy Make Us Whole **(written with Cathy Salit)?and read the rest of this marvelous book, Social Construction in Action , which you can download for free!* Lois Holzman Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX Distinguished Visiting Fellow in Vygotskian Practice and Performance, Lloyd International Honors College at The University of North Carolina at Greensboro Address: East Side Institute, Attn:Lois Holzman 119 West 23 St, suite 902 New York, NY 10011 Telephone +1.212.941.8906 x324 Mobile 1-917-815-2664 lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org Social Media Facebook | LinkedIn | Twitter Blogs Psychology Today | Psychology of Becoming | Mad in America Websites Lois Holzman | East Side Institute | Performing the World All Stars Project -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200413/7940a548/attachment.html From bonnienardi@gmail.com Mon Apr 13 13:42:56 2020 From: bonnienardi@gmail.com (Anna Log) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 13:42:56 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Love in the time of corona In-Reply-To: <0035E7BD-D4C5-4EC4-8F8A-96AD8AD65BF4@manchester.ac.uk> References: <0035E7BD-D4C5-4EC4-8F8A-96AD8AD65BF4@manchester.ac.uk> Message-ID: Sanders has beens systematically ignored by ms media and the Democrats since running in 2016. In 2016, the alternative presses would report rallies of 20K that were literally never mentioned in the ms media. I saw more headlines this year when Bernie dropped out of the race than when he was winning primaries. It seems hard to find institutional allies, and yes to Julian's point, it's the same dynamic in the U.S. Bernie actually wanted to upset some apple carts and he was systematically prevented from doing so. Ironically all the polls (even from 2016) always showed he could beat Trump so it makes one wonder whose interests are being served. (I doubt Biden can beat Trump.) - Bonnie On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 1:14 PM Julian Williams < julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk> wrote: > I expect you have all seen this: if so, apologies for boring you > > > > https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/04/06/love-letter > > > > Let?s not focus on ?coping? so much that we lose the really important > political lessons from this experience: international markets ut of > control, nationalist politics, racism-imperialism, media and bad-science, > viral infection in all left parties, ? > > > > Julian > > > > Ps Here the news today (in the left ? totally ignored by mainstream media > so far) has been the way the right of the Labour Party worked to LOSE the > 2017 election, so they could remove Corbyn. Since which time their > nefarious activities have intensified around the Anti-Semitism issue, > driving international socialists (disproportionately many actually Jewish) > to despair. If similar in the US, turn your attention to the real enemies > in the Democrat Party ? there is no doubt a similar conspiracy against > Sanders there. > > > > *From: * on behalf of Alfredo Jornet Gil > > *Reply-To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > *Date: *Monday, 13 April 2020 at 21:00 > *To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: Love in the time of corona > > > > Really wonderful initiatives of retooling/stepping up virtual activity, > very inspiring and helpful, Lois. > > > > I was drawn by the ?love? in your post?s subject, and then was looking for > the term again in the body of your message, but could not find it. I > thought then that ?non-knowing growing? and the generating of ?hope and > possibility? was it. Thanks for sharing. > > > > Interesting connection between your group?s therapeutic approach to the > situation and recent characterizations of the current situation as a > world-perezhivanie. > > Alfredo > > *From: * on behalf of Lois Holzman < > lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org> > *Reply to: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > *Date: *Monday, 13 April 2020 at 18:56 > *To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Love in the time of corona > > > > Hello All, > > > > Following the lead of others, I'll jump in. While NYC and state are in > serious crisis and all its cultural and economic conflicts even more > glaring, the vibrancy and energy has not disappeared. It's just different. > > > > As Vygotsky is purported to have said, "A revolution solves only those > tasks raised by history..." History has thrown us a monster. > > > > Different too are the forces working to shape this extraordinary > historical moment. Much of that shaping by those who are in positions of > political and economic, etc. authority?and the pandemic itself?are creating > fear and despair, both for now and the future. At the same time, the > shaping being done by so many thousands of people and organizations that > inspire and organize people to exercise their power and creativity for > connectedness are generating hope and possibility. > > I feel that palpably all day long. > > > > We in the global development community are re-tooling and/or stepping up > our virtual activities, many of which involve play, performance and > ensemble building, not to take people's minds off what's happening, but to > involve them in some "non-knowing growing" and participation in creating > positive responses to what's happening that have the possibility to > continue to be transformative of individuals and communities. A few > examples? > > establishing a Global Play Brigade working across borders of > nation state, culture and economy (so far performance activists from about > 40 countries involved) > > offering Creating Connection and Building Community > free > play sessions via Zoom, each one originating in a different part of the > world (about 150 people per session so far) > > taking our Creating Our Mental Health conversation/workshop series > national and international in a moment when people are realizing how they > feel is not inside them, not merely socially produced and organized, but > social in its potential transformativity > > taking All Stars Project programs for poor youth and their > communities in NYC, NJ, Dallas, Chicago and the Bay Area virtual > > > > If you're interested in any of this and more, let me know. And you can > always check out the social media listed in my signature. > > > > Stay safe, > > Lois > > > > -- > > *Access my latest article?**Why be Half-Human? How Play, Performance and > Practical Philosophy Make Us Whole **(written with Cathy Salit)?and read > the rest of this marvelous book, Social Construction in Action > , > which you can download for free!* > > > > > > Lois Holzman > Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy > > Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX > > Distinguished Visiting Fellow in Vygotskian Practice and Performance, > Lloyd International Honors College at The University of North Carolina at > Greensboro > > Address: East Side Institute, Attn:Lois Holzman > > 119 West 23 St, suite 902 > > New York, NY 10011 > > Telephone +1.212.941.8906 x324 > > Mobile 1-917-815-2664 > > lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org > Social Media > Facebook | LinkedIn > | Twitter > > Blogs > Psychology Today > | Psychology > of Becoming | Mad in America > > Websites > Lois Holzman | East Side Institute > | Performing the World > > All Stars Project > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200413/420177cc/attachment.html From lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org Mon Apr 13 13:56:31 2020 From: lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org (Lois Holzman) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 16:56:31 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Love in the time of corona In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Expanding on love, thanks to Alfredo's inquiry, I send this with permission from the Global Play Brigade. Lois Ode To Our Frontline Workers Global Play Brigade, April 12, 2020 *Co-created online and on the spot by performance activists in Nepal, Israel, the UK, Nicaragua, Greece, Mexico, Denmark, Pakistan, the US, Spain, Belgium, South Africa* To all of you who have come to take care of us To all of you who keep fighting We are in awe of your perseverance What can we give you, what can we do, how can we express our love We are here for you as you are there for us You give of yourselves everything you can, we want to give of ourselves whatever we can We are committed to keep giving to you even after the pandemic leaves us We will work for the transformation that your gift deserves When this is past, we will all recognize what labor is actually important We will remember that frontline workers are not just in the hospitals But all the jobs that have built and continue to build the wealth and conditions from which we all thrive We will find you, we will see you, we will be there with you You are forever in our hearts, in our minds, in our words, in our souls You are the candle saving the light Illuminating us in this dark moment We will create power so you can have all that you need to make this world equitable and decent for every human being We thank you, as frontline cultural workers, we are here for you, to serve you (And if you want to see it get created. .. On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 3:59 PM Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > Really wonderful initiatives of retooling/stepping up virtual activity, > very inspiring and helpful, Lois. > > > > I was drawn by the ?love? in your post?s subject, and then was looking for > the term again in the body of your message, but could not find it. I > thought then that ?non-knowing growing? and the generating of ?hope and > possibility? was it. Thanks for sharing. > > > > Interesting connection between your group?s therapeutic approach to the > situation and recent characterizations of the current situation as a > world-perezhivanie. > > Alfredo > > *From: * on behalf of Lois Holzman < > lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org> > *Reply to: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > *Date: *Monday, 13 April 2020 at 18:56 > *To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Love in the time of corona > > > > Hello All, > > > > Following the lead of others, I'll jump in. While NYC and state are in > serious crisis and all its cultural and economic conflicts even more > glaring, the vibrancy and energy has not disappeared. It's just different. > > > > As Vygotsky is purported to have said, "A revolution solves only those > tasks raised by history..." History has thrown us a monster. > > > > Different too are the forces working to shape this extraordinary > historical moment. Much of that shaping by those who are in positions of > political and economic, etc. authority?and the pandemic itself?are creating > fear and despair, both for now and the future. At the same time, the > shaping being done by so many thousands of people and organizations that > inspire and organize people to exercise their power and creativity for > connectedness are generating hope and possibility. > > I feel that palpably all day long. > > > > We in the global development community are re-tooling and/or stepping up > our virtual activities, many of which involve play, performance and > ensemble building, not to take people's minds off what's happening, but to > involve them in some "non-knowing growing" and participation in creating > positive responses to what's happening that have the possibility to > continue to be transformative of individuals and communities. A few > examples? > > establishing a Global Play Brigade working across borders of > nation state, culture and economy (so far performance activists from about > 40 countries involved) > > offering Creating Connection and Building Community > free > play sessions via Zoom, each one originating in a different part of the > world (about 150 people per session so far) > > taking our Creating Our Mental Health conversation/workshop series > national and international in a moment when people are realizing how they > feel is not inside them, not merely socially produced and organized, but > social in its potential transformativity > > taking All Stars Project programs for poor youth and their > communities in NYC, NJ, Dallas, Chicago and the Bay Area virtual > > > > If you're interested in any of this and more, let me know. And you can > always check out the social media listed in my signature. > > > > Stay safe, > > Lois > > > > -- > > *Access my latest article?**Why be Half-Human? How Play, Performance and > Practical Philosophy Make Us Whole **(written with Cathy Salit)?and read > the rest of this marvelous book, Social Construction in Action > , > which you can download for free!* > > > > > > Lois Holzman > Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy > > Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX > > Distinguished Visiting Fellow in Vygotskian Practice and Performance, > Lloyd International Honors College at The University of North Carolina at > Greensboro > > Address: East Side Institute, Attn:Lois Holzman > > 119 West 23 St, suite 902 > > New York, NY 10011 > > Telephone +1.212.941.8906 x324 > > Mobile 1-917-815-2664 > > lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org > Social Media > Facebook | LinkedIn > | Twitter > > Blogs > Psychology Today > | Psychology > of Becoming | Mad in America > > Websites > Lois Holzman | East Side Institute > | Performing the World > > All Stars Project > > > -- *Access my latest article?**Why be Half-Human? How Play, Performance and Practical Philosophy Make Us Whole **(written with Cathy Salit)?and read the rest of this marvelous book, Social Construction in Action , which you can download for free!* Lois Holzman Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX Distinguished Visiting Fellow in Vygotskian Practice and Performance, Lloyd International Honors College at The University of North Carolina at Greensboro Address: East Side Institute, Attn:Lois Holzman 119 West 23 St, suite 902 New York, NY 10011 Telephone +1.212.941.8906 x324 Mobile 1-917-815-2664 lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org Social Media Facebook | LinkedIn | Twitter Blogs Psychology Today | Psychology of Becoming | Mad in America Websites Lois Holzman | East Side Institute | Performing the World All Stars Project -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200413/4ec398a8/attachment.html From julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk Mon Apr 13 14:36:51 2020 From: julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk (Julian Williams) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 21:36:51 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Love in the time of corona In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Lois Like this very much about love (and also for students and teachers please, even if equivocal about the reference to ?wealth? ? I presume this refers to the workers and not capital). It feels very aligned with the NHS support here in UK, indeed (lots of weekly spoon-banging and clapping) ? even while we discover that front line carers? voices are being suppressed by their own management bureaucrats. Not so sure about ?When this is past??: as I see it, this won?t ever be quite ?past? ? we will see what or who is ?past? in a while. Staffs in A&E/NHS wards who go public about lack of PPE are being suspended or threatened with suspension and a culture of fear being imposed ? if they are fired they will have no special entitlement to anything but the paltry starvation support (here ?95 p.w.) for heaven?s sake. Some have even quit so they don?t face death working without proper kit. We should be (many are) incandescent with rage about our governments? inaction, delay, and criminal carelessness ? Julian From: on behalf of Lois Holzman Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Date: Monday, 13 April 2020 at 22:00 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Love in the time of corona Expanding on love, thanks to Alfredo's inquiry, I send this with permission from the Global Play Brigade. Lois Ode To Our Frontline Workers Global Play Brigade, April 12, 2020 Co-created online and on the spot by performance activists in Nepal, Israel, the UK, Nicaragua, Greece, Mexico, Denmark, Pakistan, the US, Spain, Belgium, South Africa To all of you who have come to take care of us To all of you who keep fighting We are in awe of your perseverance What can we give you, what can we do, how can we express our love We are here for you as you are there for us You give of yourselves everything you can, we want to give of ourselves whatever we can We are committed to keep giving to you even after the pandemic leaves us We will work for the transformation that your gift deserves When this is past, we will all recognize what labor is actually important We will remember that frontline workers are not just in the hospitals But all the jobs that have built and continue to build the wealth and conditions from which we all thrive We will find you, we will see you, we will be there with you You are forever in our hearts, in our minds, in our words, in our souls You are the candle saving the light Illuminating us in this dark moment We will create power so you can have all that you need to make this world equitable and decent for every human being We thank you, as frontline cultural workers, we are here for you, to serve you (And if you want to see it get created... On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 3:59 PM Alfredo Jornet Gil > wrote: Really wonderful initiatives of retooling/stepping up virtual activity, very inspiring and helpful, Lois. I was drawn by the ?love? in your post?s subject, and then was looking for the term again in the body of your message, but could not find it. I thought then that ?non-knowing growing? and the generating of ?hope and possibility? was it. Thanks for sharing. Interesting connection between your group?s therapeutic approach to the situation and recent characterizations of the current situation as a world-perezhivanie. Alfredo From: > on behalf of Lois Holzman > Reply to: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Date: Monday, 13 April 2020 at 18:56 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Subject: [Xmca-l] Love in the time of corona Hello All, Following the lead of others, I'll jump in. While NYC and state are in serious crisis and all its cultural and economic conflicts even more glaring, the vibrancy and energy has not disappeared. It's just different. As Vygotsky is purported to have said, "A revolution solves only those tasks raised by history..." History has thrown us a monster. Different too are the forces working to shape this extraordinary historical moment. Much of that shaping by those who are in positions of political and economic, etc. authority?and the pandemic itself?are creating fear and despair, both for now and the future. At the same time, the shaping being done by so many thousands of people and organizations that inspire and organize people to exercise their power and creativity for connectedness are generating hope and possibility. I feel that palpably all day long. We in the global development community are re-tooling and/or stepping up our virtual activities, many of which involve play, performance and ensemble building, not to take people's minds off what's happening, but to involve them in some "non-knowing growing" and participation in creating positive responses to what's happening that have the possibility to continue to be transformative of individuals and communities. A few examples? establishing a Global Play Brigade working across borders of nation state, culture and economy (so far performance activists from about 40 countries involved) offering Creating Connection and Building Community free play sessions via Zoom, each one originating in a different part of the world (about 150 people per session so far) taking our Creating Our Mental Health conversation/workshop series national and international in a moment when people are realizing how they feel is not inside them, not merely socially produced and organized, but social in its potential transformativity taking All Stars Project programs for poor youth and their communities in NYC, NJ, Dallas, Chicago and the Bay Area virtual If you're interested in any of this and more, let me know. And you can always check out the social media listed in my signature. Stay safe, Lois -- Access my latest article?Why be Half-Human? How Play, Performance and Practical Philosophy Make Us Whole (written with Cathy Salit)?and read the rest of this marvelous book, Social Construction in Action, which you can download for free! Lois Holzman Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX Distinguished Visiting Fellow in Vygotskian Practice and Performance, Lloyd International Honors College at The University of North Carolina at Greensboro Address: East Side Institute, Attn:Lois Holzman 119 West 23 St, suite 902 New York, NY 10011 Telephone +1.212.941.8906 x324 Mobile 1-917-815-2664 lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org Social Media Facebook | LinkedIn| Twitter Blogs Psychology Today| Psychology of Becoming | Mad in America Websites Lois Holzman | East Side Institute | Performing the World All Stars Project -- Access my latest article?Why be Half-Human? How Play, Performance and Practical Philosophy Make Us Whole (written with Cathy Salit)?and read the rest of this marvelous book, Social Construction in Action, which you can download for free! Lois Holzman Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX Distinguished Visiting Fellow in Vygotskian Practice and Performance, Lloyd International Honors College at The University of North Carolina at Greensboro Address: East Side Institute, Attn:Lois Holzman 119 West 23 St, suite 902 New York, NY 10011 Telephone +1.212.941.8906 x324 Mobile 1-917-815-2664 lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org Social Media Facebook | LinkedIn| Twitter Blogs Psychology Today| Psychology of Becoming | Mad in America Websites Lois Holzman | East Side Institute | Performing the World All Stars Project -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200413/9bdc786c/attachment.html From lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org Mon Apr 13 16:00:58 2020 From: lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org (Lois Holzman) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 19:00:58 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Love in the time of corona In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Amen for adding the students and teachers! And similar suppression re the health care (not an accurate term) disaster is alive and well in the US. Along with rage, maybe I am sharing something about letting the light come in, ala Leonard Cohen's words from his "Anthem" The birds they sang At the break of day Start again I heard them say Don't dwell on what Has passed away Or what is yet to be Yeah the wars they will Be fought again The holy dove She will be caught again Bought and sold And bought again The dove is never free Ring the bells (ring the bells) that still can ring Forget your perfect offering There is a crack in everything (there is a crack in everything) That's how the light gets in On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 5:38 PM Julian Williams < julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk> wrote: > Lois > > > > Like this very much about love (and also for students and teachers please, > even if equivocal about the reference to ?wealth? ? I presume this refers > to the workers and not capital). > > > > It feels very aligned with the NHS support here in UK, indeed (lots of > weekly spoon-banging and clapping) ? even while we discover that front line > carers? voices are being suppressed by their own management bureaucrats. > Not so sure about ?When this is past??: as I see it, this won?t ever be > quite ?past? ? we will see what or who is ?past? in a while. > > > > Staffs in A&E/NHS wards who go public about lack of PPE are being > suspended or threatened with suspension and a culture of fear being imposed > ? if they are fired they will have no special entitlement to anything but > the paltry starvation support (here ?95 p.w.) for heaven?s sake. Some have > even quit so they don?t face death working without proper kit. > > > > We should be (many are) incandescent with rage about our governments? > inaction, delay, and criminal carelessness ? > > > > Julian > > > > > > *From: * on behalf of Lois Holzman < > lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org> > *Reply-To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > *Date: *Monday, 13 April 2020 at 22:00 > *To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: Love in the time of corona > > > > Expanding on love, thanks to Alfredo's inquiry, I send this with > permission from the Global Play Brigade. > > Lois > > > > *Ode To Our Frontline Workers* > > Global Play Brigade, April 12, 2020 > > > > *Co-created online and on the spot by performance activists in Nepal, > Israel, the UK, Nicaragua, Greece, Mexico, Denmark, Pakistan, the US, > Spain, Belgium, South Africa* > > > > To all of you who have come to take care of us > > To all of you who keep fighting > > We are in awe of your perseverance > > What can we give you, what can we do, how can we express our love > > > > We are here for you as you are there for us > > You give of yourselves everything you can, we want to give of ourselves > whatever we can > > We are committed to keep giving to you even after the pandemic leaves us > > We will work for the transformation that your gift deserves > > > > When this is past, we will all recognize what labor is actually important > > We will remember that frontline workers are not just in the hospitals > > But all the jobs that have built and continue to build the wealth and > conditions from which we all thrive > > We will find you, we will see you, we will be there with you > > > > You are forever in our hearts, in our minds, in our words, in our souls > > You are the candle saving the light > > Illuminating us in this dark moment > > We will create power so you can have all that you need > > to make this world equitable and decent for every human being > > > > We thank you, as frontline cultural workers, we are here for you, to serve > you > > > > (And if you want to see it get created. > > .. > > > > On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 3:59 PM Alfredo Jornet Gil > wrote: > > Really wonderful initiatives of retooling/stepping up virtual activity, > very inspiring and helpful, Lois. > > > > I was drawn by the ?love? in your post?s subject, and then was looking for > the term again in the body of your message, but could not find it. I > thought then that ?non-knowing growing? and the generating of ?hope and > possibility? was it. Thanks for sharing. > > > > Interesting connection between your group?s therapeutic approach to the > situation and recent characterizations of the current situation as a > world-perezhivanie. > > Alfredo > > *From: * on behalf of Lois Holzman < > lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org> > *Reply to: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > *Date: *Monday, 13 April 2020 at 18:56 > *To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Love in the time of corona > > > > Hello All, > > > > Following the lead of others, I'll jump in. While NYC and state are in > serious crisis and all its cultural and economic conflicts even more > glaring, the vibrancy and energy has not disappeared. It's just different. > > > > As Vygotsky is purported to have said, "A revolution solves only those > tasks raised by history..." History has thrown us a monster. > > > > Different too are the forces working to shape this extraordinary > historical moment. Much of that shaping by those who are in positions of > political and economic, etc. authority?and the pandemic itself?are creating > fear and despair, both for now and the future. At the same time, the > shaping being done by so many thousands of people and organizations that > inspire and organize people to exercise their power and creativity for > connectedness are generating hope and possibility. > > I feel that palpably all day long. > > > > We in the global development community are re-tooling and/or stepping up > our virtual activities, many of which involve play, performance and > ensemble building, not to take people's minds off what's happening, but to > involve them in some "non-knowing growing" and participation in creating > positive responses to what's happening that have the possibility to > continue to be transformative of individuals and communities. A few > examples? > > establishing a Global Play Brigade working across borders of > nation state, culture and economy (so far performance activists from about > 40 countries involved) > > offering Creating Connection and Building Community > free > play sessions via Zoom, each one originating in a different part of the > world (about 150 people per session so far) > > taking our Creating Our Mental Health conversation/workshop series > national and international in a moment when people are realizing how they > feel is not inside them, not merely socially produced and organized, but > social in its potential transformativity > > taking All Stars Project programs for poor youth and their > communities in NYC, NJ, Dallas, Chicago and the Bay Area virtual > > > > If you're interested in any of this and more, let me know. And you can > always check out the social media listed in my signature. > > > > Stay safe, > > Lois > > > > -- > > *Access my latest article?**Why be Half-Human? How Play, Performance and > Practical Philosophy Make Us Whole **(written with Cathy Salit)?and read > the rest of this marvelous book, Social Construction in Action > , > which you can download for free!* > > > > > > Lois Holzman > Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy > > Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX > > Distinguished Visiting Fellow in Vygotskian Practice and Performance, > Lloyd International Honors College at The University of North Carolina at > Greensboro > > Address: East Side Institute, Attn:Lois Holzman > > 119 West 23 St, suite 902 > > New York, NY 10011 > > Telephone +1.212.941.8906 x324 > > Mobile 1-917-815-2664 > > lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org > Social Media > Facebook | LinkedIn > | Twitter > > Blogs > Psychology Today > | Psychology > of Becoming | Mad in America > > Websites > Lois Holzman | East Side Institute > | Performing the World > > All Stars Project > > > > > > -- > > *Access my latest article?**Why be Half-Human? How Play, Performance and > Practical Philosophy Make Us Whole **(written with Cathy Salit)?and read > the rest of this marvelous book, Social Construction in Action > , > which you can download for free!* > > > > > > Lois Holzman > Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy > > Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX > > Distinguished Visiting Fellow in Vygotskian Practice and Performance, > Lloyd International Honors College at The University of North Carolina at > Greensboro > > Address: East Side Institute, Attn:Lois Holzman > > 119 West 23 St, suite 902 > > New York, NY 10011 > > Telephone +1.212.941.8906 x324 > > Mobile 1-917-815-2664 > > lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org > Social Media > Facebook | LinkedIn > | Twitter > > Blogs > Psychology Today > | Psychology > of Becoming | Mad in America > > Websites > Lois Holzman | East Side Institute > | Performing the World > > All Stars Project > > > -- *Access my latest article?**Why be Half-Human? How Play, Performance and Practical Philosophy Make Us Whole **(written with Cathy Salit)?and read the rest of this marvelous book, Social Construction in Action , which you can download for free!* Lois Holzman Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX Distinguished Visiting Fellow in Vygotskian Practice and Performance, Lloyd International Honors College at The University of North Carolina at Greensboro Address: East Side Institute, Attn:Lois Holzman 119 West 23 St, suite 902 New York, NY 10011 Telephone +1.212.941.8906 x324 Mobile 1-917-815-2664 lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org Social Media Facebook | LinkedIn | Twitter Blogs Psychology Today | Psychology of Becoming | Mad in America Websites Lois Holzman | East Side Institute | Performing the World All Stars Project -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200413/012d5221/attachment.html From dkellogg60@gmail.com Mon Apr 13 19:07:28 2020 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 11:07:28 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Language in the Time of Covid 19 Message-ID: In Korea we have a delightful kind of miniature waffe filled with sweet red beans called a ??? (literally, "carp bread"); and in Korean we have a rather sardonic saying, "????? ??? ??" (not too literally, "there just ain't no carp in a carp bread"). One could go all post-modern on this point and talk about Baudrillard and simulacra and how chicken testicles are not McNuggets, but one would break the one screen rule: I really just want a colorful way to frame the argument that there ain't no instruction in self-instruction, at least not in the good old Vygotskyan sense of ???????? (obuchenie, teaching-and-learning, as Mike has insisted that it should be translated). Self-instruction is not instruction--because the whole point of ???????? is a higher form of interdependency we call development; it's not just the viral replication of behavior in a form independent from the original. Three other points of language in the time of Covid 19 seem worth keeping in mind as we try to scale up some of the "moments" of XMCA, even to the level of the Latour website (it seems to me that responding on the Website he designed is probably more scalable than having our own Google Doc, which is why I didn't contribute to the Google Doc, Helena....) a) There is no "social" in "social distancing". The distancing we are after is really a mechanical, physiological, medical distance and not a social one at all: on the contrary, mechanical distancing is a very high form of social solidarity, and as such it comes at a price. One of the bereaved wives on the BBC put this beautifully (through her tears). "I am alone. I am not lonely, because I have many people talking to me on-line. I am less lonely than ever. But I am far more alone. No one can give me a hug." b) There is no "coronavirus" in Covid 19. Just as HIV is not the same thing as AIDS, the specific type of coronavirus SARS-Co2-19 is not the same thing as the illness which killed Lucien Seve. This seems trivial, except that eventually we will have to get it through thick skulls, our own and those of our conspecifics, that there are many different coronaviruses and most of them are harmless. But more importantly we need to understand that many people are going to be dying of things that are only indirectly related to the virus and which are directly related to real social conditions (You can skip this part, Helena: it's an exemplificatory aside....I just heard Dr. John Campbell, whose views I respect less and less, argue that one reason why black people suffer disproportionately from Covid 19 has something to do with dark skin and a lack of Vitamin D. This is rather like the Chinese who claimed that the reason the disease strikes men harder than women must have something to do with the X chromosome rather than, say, the simple social fact that in China 50% of men smoke and only 5% of women do. Or the catastrophic belief of the US administration that the disease could be halted by a physical travel ban back when the process of community spread was already well underway.) c) Many units of social practice are neither scalable nor transitional, e.g. on-line classes and the practice of mooing from your balcony instead of singing in support of the National Health Service (as they do in the dairy town of Belpy in England), But language is both. As Ruqaiya Hasan liked to say, the reason why language solves so many of our problems is that language itself is the source of many of our problems, needs, desires, hopes, dreams, drives. But that's just another way of saying that you don't experience a perizhivanie as problematic until you also experience, in the dark and just beyond your fingertips but still exquisitely and very palbably there, some means for its solution. David Kellogg Sangmyung University Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of *Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational action research' in Mind Culture and Activity* https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 Some free e-prints available at: https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200414/84dda0f5/attachment.html From tom.richardson3@googlemail.com Tue Apr 14 06:17:19 2020 From: tom.richardson3@googlemail.com (Tom Richardson) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 14:17:19 +0100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Language in the Time of Covid 19 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: David Kellogg's latest 'clarification' is a real source of light and uplift to me, reducing the every bit of distance between us (all), apart from the social - David, you feel very close. I trust that this message does not break any xmca rules about personal comment. Tom Richardson (kibitzer) Middlesbrough UK BoWen On Tue, 14 Apr 2020 at 03:11, David Kellogg wrote: > In Korea we have a delightful kind of miniature waffe filled with sweet > red beans called a ??? (literally, "carp bread"); and in Korean we have a > rather sardonic saying, "????? ??? ??" (not too literally, "there just > ain't no carp in a carp bread"). > > One could go all post-modern on this point and talk about Baudrillard and > simulacra and how chicken testicles are not McNuggets, but one would break > the one screen rule: I really just want a colorful way to frame the > argument that there ain't no instruction in self-instruction, at least not > in the good old Vygotskyan sense of ???????? (obuchenie, > teaching-and-learning, as Mike has insisted that it should be translated). > Self-instruction is not instruction--because the whole point of ???????? is > a higher form of interdependency we call development; it's not just the > viral replication of behavior in a form independent from the original. > > Three other points of language in the time of Covid 19 seem worth keeping > in mind as we try to scale up some of the "moments" of XMCA, even to the > level of the Latour website (it seems to me that responding on the Website > he designed is probably more scalable than having our own Google Doc, which > is why I didn't contribute to the Google Doc, Helena....) > > a) There is no "social" in "social distancing". The distancing we are > after is really a mechanical, physiological, medical distance and not a > social one at all: on the contrary, mechanical distancing is a very high > form of social solidarity, and as such it comes at a price. One of the > bereaved wives on the BBC put this beautifully (through her tears). "I am > alone. I am not lonely, because I have many people talking to me on-line. I > am less lonely than ever. But I am far more alone. No one can give me a > hug." > > b) There is no "coronavirus" in Covid 19. Just as HIV is not the same > thing as AIDS, the specific type of coronavirus SARS-Co2-19 is not the same > thing as the illness which killed Lucien Seve. This seems trivial, except > that eventually we will have to get it through thick skulls, our own and > those of our conspecifics, that there are many different coronaviruses and > most of them are harmless. But more importantly we need to understand that > many people are going to be dying of things that are only indirectly > related to the virus and which are directly related to real social > conditions > > (You can skip this part, Helena: it's an exemplificatory aside....I just > heard Dr. John Campbell, whose views I respect less and less, argue that > one reason why black people suffer disproportionately from Covid 19 has > something to do with dark skin and a lack of Vitamin D. This is rather like > the Chinese who claimed that the reason the disease strikes men harder than > women must have something to do with the X chromosome rather than, say, the > simple social fact that in China 50% of men smoke and only 5% of women do. > Or the catastrophic belief of the US administration that the disease could > be halted by a physical travel ban back when the process of community > spread was already well underway.) > > c) Many units of social practice are neither scalable nor transitional, > e.g. on-line classes and the practice of mooing from your balcony instead > of singing in support of the National Health Service (as they do in the > dairy town of Belpy in England), But language is both. As Ruqaiya Hasan > liked to say, the reason why language solves so many of our problems is > that language itself is the source of many of our problems, needs, desires, > hopes, dreams, drives. But that's just another way of saying that you don't > experience a perizhivanie as problematic until you also experience, in the > dark and just beyond your fingertips but still exquisitely and > very palbably there, some means for its solution. > > David Kellogg > Sangmyung University > > Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of *Critical > Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational > action research' in Mind Culture and Activity* > > https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 > > Some free e-prints available at: > > > https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 > > New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works > Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" > > https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200414/e0f7c151/attachment.html From anamshane@gmail.com Tue Apr 14 09:00:56 2020 From: anamshane@gmail.com (Ana Marjanovic-Shane) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 16:00:56 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Exploration survey: An Online international conference on Dialogic Pedagogy Message-ID: Dear XMCA members, Greeting from Philadelphia! We are holding on in this pandemic as everyone else ? with trepidation about the pandemic and a great hope that the Coronavirus-19 will be soon reined in to become a manageable disease like the other ones that were conquered in the past. As the world is changing, and almost all of our professional conferences have been cancelled for this year, here at the Dialogic Pedagogy Journal (DPJ), we are exploring ways to hold a conferences at a distance, to keep open our dialogues and exchange thoughts on our research and teaching practices. The DPJ Organizational Committee would like to explore if there is enough interest in The Dialogic Pedagogy online conference among educational scholars and/or practitioners. So, we would like to ask you to fill out the following short survey: https://delaware.ca1.qualtrics.com/?/form/SV_bK1IudyShhLehFj Thanks, DP Online Conference Org Committee PS Feel free to pass this survey to your colleagues who might be interested. _________________________________________ Ana Marjanovic-Shane Deputy Editor-in-Chief, Dialogic Pedagogy Journal Independent Scholar +1-267-334-2905 anamshane@gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200414/0873a097/attachment.html From robsub@ariadne.org.uk Tue Apr 14 09:47:14 2020 From: robsub@ariadne.org.uk (robsub@ariadne.org.uk) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 17:47:14 +0100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Love in the time of corona In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <94006abc-9b52-66b2-03c9-76a1827d2288@ariadne.org.uk> For what it's worth here are a few thoughts on creating online activities. I don't think there is a one size fits all answer because students (as well as teachers!) come from all sorts of different cultures with all sorts of different expectation about community. But I hope that some of my suggestions will work broadly - my hope is based on my background, which is in the competitive individualist west, where the biggest problem about learning communities is getting out of students' heads the idea that any kind of collaboration is tantamount to collusion and will be punished with the utmost severity. (I find I have had to work at getting that out of a lot of teachers' heads as well.) So basically, if it works on my students, there is a good chance that it will work elsewhere. I don't think you should work at community directly. it is something best sneaked up on in the course of other activity. But the other activity has to be carefully and artfully constructed. That's one of many reasons why you don't make an online course by chucking offine material on to the web. There are two aspects - being online and working together. Being online will be a challenge for many students. A lifetime of texting, Snapchatting, Tiktoking, and ordering your clothes, holidays and pizza over the internet does not prepare people for using an online learning environment. So you have to expect people to be clueless to start with. But you should act as if this is an entirely natural environment right from the start. You need to make it their assumption that they will be working together every week if not more often. You need to make it their assumption that if they're live online, they will see and hear each other. It's astonishing in some of the courses I've seen how many students have microphones that don't work :-) So design your teaching and your assessment work to perhaps enforce, certainly encourage, working together. The more they work together, the more a sense of community will grow. In my environment, students follow the marks, even the disengaged ones. if there are marks available for collaborative activities, they will do them. They will do them with less or more of a sense of engagement, but the hope is that as they get used to them, students will recognise the intrinsic rewards as well as the extrinsic ones. I don't know what your assessment strategy will be. The standard at the OU is a series of assignments roughly once a month over a nine month course. Each assignment should contain some kind of collaborative element. Even the simplest will do - quote two substantial and meaningful posts you have written in the online forum. There is plenty of room for interpretation of "substantial and meaningful" but you get the idea. Then you work up to them working in teams to produce, say, an annotated bibliography on a specific topic, or a powerpoint on something.And you can assess the way they work together in a forum to produce this. Sounds daunting - I've done it, works easier than you think. If you're working with them live, give them opportunities to work together on exercises or issues. Even if there are only two of them, put them in a breakout room together. Without you there, they have to talk to each other. Incorporate exercises like "how am I doing?" Get students to assess their own progress against the learning outcomes of the course, and discuss with each other. You could give them an exercise after working on it individually, to come to a combined ranking of the two or three bits of the course that they most need to revisit. (Which you obviously then revisit, and get the students who think they're Ok on it to teach the others.) I have so much more to say. I could write a book, as you can tell. I'd be very happy to give more detail, perhaps off-list. Final thought: people often compare ftf and online communities by different standards. Ftf communities all have weaknesses and failings but because they're familiar, we assume they're working. Because online communities are new and unfamiliar, we tend to see all their faults and weaknesses and judge them by standards that we don't apply to the ftf world. Rob On 13/04/2020 18:17, Greg Thompson wrote: > Lois and others, > > Inspiring to see all that you and ESI are doing there in the midst of > this whirlwind - and in the eye of the storm no less! > > This comment of yours seemed to resonate with Liz' and Annalie's > comments about mental health: > "people are realizing how they feel is not inside them". > > That seems to me to be a revolutionary thought. > > Also, I'd ask this to you but don't want to distract you from your > important work, so perhaps others can talk about how activities can be > transformed in these times to adapt to this new era (I'd like to call > it a "moment" but it feels bigger than that). > > What got me thinking of this were the Zoom sessions that Lois > mentioned on Creating Connection and Building Community. The fact is > that there will be new possibilities to do these things (e.g., the > possibility of truly GLOBAL communities and connections - perhaps to > Andy's world-perezhivanie), but the activities that enable these > things will also need to be transformed and different. > > [I'm a bit of an idiot about these things so I'm just realizing that > online classes can't just be in-person activities that are taken > online. They need online activities that can build connection and > community among students. Still working on that.] > > So I'm wondering if anyone has had any success or even just > suggestions regarding how to create online activities that can realize > the possibilities and potential for connection and community in online > spaces? > > [I'm thinking really practically/locally here in terms of what can be > done in my classes to build connection and community in online spaces, > but the answer will, of course, be relevant to forms of cross-national > solidarity, granting that there may be other challenges as well - > e.g., language]. > > -greg > > > > On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 10:53 AM Lois Holzman > > wrote: > > Hello All, > > Following the lead of others, I'll jump in.?While NYC and state > are in serious crisis and all its cultural and economic conflicts > even more glaring, the vibrancy and energy has not disappeared. > It's just?different. > > As Vygotsky is purported to have said, "A revolution solves only > those tasks raised by history..." History has thrown us a monster. > > Different too are the forces working to shape this extraordinary > historical moment. Much of that shaping by those who are in > positions of political and economic, etc. authority?and the > pandemic itself?are creating fear and despair, both for now and > the future. At the same time, the shaping being done by so many > thousands?of people and organizations that inspire and > organize?people to exercise their power and creativity for > connectedness?are generating hope and possibility. > I feel that palpably all day long. > > We in the global development community are re-tooling?and/or > stepping up our virtual activities, many of which involve play, > performance and ensemble building, not to take people's minds off > what's happening, but to involve them in some "non-knowing > growing" and participation in creating positive responses to > what's happening that have the possibility to continue to be > transformative?of individuals and communities. A few examples? > ? ? ?establishing a Global Play Brigade working across borders of > nation?state, culture and economy (so far performance activists > from about 40 countries involved) > ? ? ?offering Creating Connection and Building Community > free > play sessions via Zoom, each one originating in a different part > of the world (about 150 people per session so?far) > ? ? ?taking our Creating Our Mental Health conversation/workshop > series national and international in a moment when people are > realizing how they feel is not inside them, not merely socially > produced and organized, but social in its potential transformativity > ? ? ? taking All Stars Project programs for?poor youth and their > communities in NYC, NJ, Dallas, Chicago and the Bay Area virtual > > If you're interested in any of this and more, let me know. And you > can always check out the social media listed in my signature. > > Stay safe, > Lois > > -- > *Access my latest article?**Why be Half-Human? How Play, > Performance and Practical Philosophy Make Us Whole **(written with > Cathy Salit)?and read the rest of this marvelous book, Social > Construction in Action > , > which you can download for free!* > * > * > > Lois Holzman > Director, East Side?Institute for Group & Short?Term Psychotherapy > Chair, Global Outreach, All?Stars Project, UX > Distinguished Visiting Fellow in Vygotskian Practice and > Performance, Lloyd International Honors College at The University > of North Carolina at Greensboro > Address: East Side Institute, Attn:Lois Holzman > 119 West 23 St, suite 902 > New York, NY 10011 > Telephone +1.212.941.8906?x324 > Mobile 1-917-815-2664 > > lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org > Social Media > Facebook | LinkedIn > | Twitter > > Blogs > Psychology Today > | > Psychology of Becoming ?| Mad in America > > Websites > Lois Holzman ?| East Side?Institute > ?| Performing the World > > All Stars Project > > > > > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200414/9b629633/attachment.html From Anne-Nelly.Perret-Clermont@unine.ch Tue Apr 14 09:51:34 2020 From: Anne-Nelly.Perret-Clermont@unine.ch (PERRET-CLERMONT Anne-Nelly) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 16:51:34 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> Message-ID: Hello Greg! Thanks for your question. The idea is to spread these questions and invite families, friends, colleagues, and people with meet here and there and who happy to chat, to describe what is essential for them and how it is connected with others here and there. The next step being to try to identify what it requires to preserve it, who are the "allies" and what dos it require. Here in the University of Neuch?tel, as Laure Kloetzer has explained in a recent post, students of social sciences and staff have been invited to answer these questions. And when meeting is again possible, all this will be discussed. I have also shared this questionnaire with people in other circles who themselves are trying to see how to share them and draw inspiration from the answers for further action. Best wishes, Anne-Nelly Prof. em. Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont Institut de psychologie et ?ducation Facult? des lettres et sciences humaines Universit? de Neuch?tel Espace Tilo-Frey 1 (Anciennement: Espace Louis-Agassiz 1) CH- 2000 Neuch?tel (Suisse) http://www.unine.ch/ipe/publications/anne_nelly_perret_clermont De : > on behalf of Greg Thompson > R?pondre ? : "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Date : samedi, 11 avril 2020 ? 18:34 ? : "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Objet : [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Two things. 1. The Listserve is acting misogynistic - I didn't see Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont's OR Annalie PIstorus' original messages to the list, I only saw their comments below the male responses to their comments (Mike's to Anne-Nelly and Ulvi's to Annalie). Maybe the code of the listserve is actually literally structurally biased against women's voices? (I'm half-joking but I'm totally serious about not seeing their original posts). 2. The link that Anne-Nelly sent was to a Bruno Latour paper (link below) that included the challenge to think about what things we can give up or change when life goes back to "normal" so that we aren't still in the same mess that we were before. I wonder if folks on this list might be interested in having a go at the exercise? I'm also curious if Anne-Nelly might be willing to share the thinking that her group has done on this? Here is the list of questions: Let us take advantage of the forced suspension of most activities to take stock of those we would like to see discontinued and those, on the contrary, that we would like to see developed. I suggest that readers try to answer this short questionnaire for themselves. It will be especially useful as it will be based on a personal experience that has been directly lived. This exercise is not a question of expressing an opinion but of describing your situation and may be investigating. It is only later, if one were to give oneself the means of compiling the answers of many respondents and then composing the landscape created by their intersections, that one could find a form of political expression - but this time embodied and situated in a concrete world. Answer the following questions first individually and then if possible with others: Question 1: What are the activities now suspended that you would like to see not resumed? Question 2: Describe why you think this activity is harmful/ superfluous/ dangerous/inconsistent and how its disappearance/suspension/substitution would make the activities you favor easier/ more consistent. (Make a separate paragraph for each of the activities listed in question 1). Question 3: What measures do you recommend to ensure that the workers/employees/agents/entrepreneurs who will no longer be able to continue in the activities you are removing are helped in their transition toward other activities. Question 4: Which of the now suspended activities would you like to develop/resume or even create from scratch? Question 5: Describe why this activity seems positive to you and how it makes it easier/ more harmonious/ consistent with other activities that you favor and helps to combat those that you consider unfavorable. (Make a separate paragraph for each of the activities listed in question 4). Question 6: What measures do you recommend to help workers/ employees/ agents/ entrepreneurs acquire the capacities/ means/ income/ instruments to take over/ develop/ create this favored activity. Now, find a way to compare your descriptions with those of other participants. Compiling and then superimposing the answers should gradually produce a landscape made of lines of conflict, alliances, controversy and opposition. This terrain may provide a concrete opportunity for creating the forms of political expression these activities require. Here are links to the paper in 6 different languages: http://www.bruno-latour.fr/node/852.html Cheers, Greg On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 9:51 PM mike cole > wrote: Hi Anna-Lisa. What you describe has great similarities what people in the US are experiencing with the exception that it is now clear for all to see that it is poverty, or the security of the vulnerable (same thing in my view). Thanks very much for the Latium letter. It is totally relevant right now. Mike On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 9:38 AM PERRET-CLERMONT Anne-Nelly > wrote: Hello everybody! Thank you so much for all the news and perspectives that are being shared from all over the Planet. Such difficult times, especially for those who can?t even send news... Some news from Switzerland, a privileged country, yet with very serious contamination rates. Almost 4 weeks of confinement (rights to go out are very limited and only a limited number of professions are still working) that totally re-organize our private and public life. The sun is shining wonderfully and it is very tempting to move out for this Easter holiday. Nevertheless, most people are very disciplined and stay home in confinement. It took a lot of time for the local, cantonal and federal authorities to decide on the confinement measures. Switzerland?s political traditions impose bottom-up decisions. But the result of this (too slow?) process seems to be that most people agree and comply with this policy. Police forces try to do education and not repression. But the peak of the tide of contamination has not been reached yet and hospitals are under stress. The economic stress due to this long shut down arises a lot of fear on the side of trade unions and employers associations. Switzerland has very large multinational companies, but 90% of its firms are small or medium size business. Quite a number of them are now reaching the edge of bankruptcy. If they should go bankrup,t this would totally disorganise the country, its daily style of life and more: small firms and their locations impact regional demography, resources, power (in a federation of cantons), etc. after compulsory education, 60% of the young people attend dual education (i.e. half time in firms and half-time in school) and if firms shut down this education will fall apart. Government, banks and networks of citizens are lending money and trying to maintain these small firms alive. Unemployment rate is raising but rents have to be paid. Etc? Switzerland is a country of pharmaceutical industry and engineers. But the panic in the hospitals is not over: equipment is insufficient, and drugs are starting to miss. Local enterprises have the know how to make them but ?with ingredients that come exclusively from China and India. Hospitals have been afraid of losing 25% to 40% of their staff as nurses often come from the bordering regions of France and Italy. Finally, these countries have locked their borders but not for those professionals. This does not solve the problem on the long term, of course as these countries also need more medical staff. We hope that a growing awareness of the importance (and respect and salary) due to these professions will finally have the necessary impact. At 9 p.m., everybody goes at the window or balcony to give them a clap (or ring bells or even play music) for a minute to thank all the medical staff and other professions (e.g., cleaners) who likewise take enormous risks and make great efforts. The number of beds in the hospitals has been seriously increased by creative means. The ultraliberal policy of the last decade had seriously cut down the number of beds in hospital and sent many many patients to private practice and ambulatory treatment. But the government, when declaring confinement, has also declared that medical practitioners should only do online treatment and should close their practice. Result: 3 weeks later medical authorities are very worried: many patients in serious conditions or with severe chronic diseases don?t dare to call their medical practitioner and are afraid to go to the emergency services in hospital (fear of overloading them, fear of infection by Covid and fear of being cut out from their families (not allowed in the hospital). The pronostic is a possible wave of very serious cases needing urgent and heavy treatment. This wave will put extra-pressure on the sanitary system already overburden. Meanwhile small medical units are close to bankruptcy : their have to pay the salaries of their staff but have no income to do so. There is also a (still small) growing concern among social scientists that the teams that reflect on the pandemic and the confinement measures (and the planning of the end of the confinement) are made up of exclusively of epidemiologists and economists (with one or two specialists in ethics). Hence the psychic and social problems of the confined population are probably underestimated. Little is known of the underprivileged part of the population, now unemployed, in small housing, with little outreach. Schooling has gone online in a fortnight (with absolutely no preparation) but many students don?t have connections or share the unique computer of the household with parents and siblings all supposedly on line. This is only a few elements that characterise the situation. In parallel, many citizens are becoming increasingly aware of the dangers of the total interdependence of the economy and of the ecological disasters that this creates. Sanitary disasters and ecological disasters are much more interrelated than expected (a very nice book to understand that biological processes and ways of life social life are interdependent: Rob Dunn "Never home alone. >From Microbes to Millipedes, Camel Crickets, and Honeybees, the Natural History of Where We Live"). There are also plenty of many nice examples of solidarity, creativity, etc. They need to converge and be made visible. We (MAPS in University of Neuch?tel) are engaging in a large inquiry based on Bruno Latour?s call (March 29, 2020): "A little exercise to make sure that, after the virus crisis, things don?t start again as they were before" (see http://www.bruno-latour.fr/node/852.html with already versions in English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Polish, German, Dutch). Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont Prof. em. Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont Institut de psychologie et ?ducation Facult? des lettres et sciences humaines Universit? de Neuch?tel Espace Tilo-Frey 1 (Anciennement: Espace Louis-Agassiz 1) CH- 2000 Neuch?tel (Suisse) http://www.unine.ch/ipe/publications/anne_nelly_perret_clermont Last publications: Perret-Clermont, A.-N., Sch?r, R., Greco, S., Convertini, J., Iannaccone, A., & Rocci, A. (2019). Shifting from a monological to a dialogical perspective on children?s argumentation. Lessons learned. In F. H. van Eemren & B. Garssen (Eds.), Argumentation in actual practice. Topical studies about argumentative discourse in context (pp. 211-236): John Benjamins Publishing Company. Version ?lectronique Iannaccone, A., Perret-Clermont, A.-N., & Convertini, J. (2019). Children as investigators of Brunerian ?Possible worlds?. The role of narrative scenarios in children?s argumentative thinking. . Integrative Psychological and Behiavioral Science, 53, 679-693. Version ?lectronique Perret-Clermont, A.-N., Perret, J.-F., Pochon, L.-O., & Marro, P. (2019). Hommage ? Jacques Perriault. Hermes, La Revue, 3, 226-226. In J.-P. Fragni?re (Ed.), Agir et penser avec Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont (pp. 71-107). Lausanne: Editions Socialinfo https://www.socialinfo.ch/les-livres/38-agir-et-penser-avec-anne-nelly-perret-clermont.html -- Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a landslide. Roy D'Andrade --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200414/5a2d7ef6/attachment.html From glassman.13@osu.edu Tue Apr 14 12:45:08 2020 From: glassman.13@osu.edu (Glassman, Michael) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 19:45:08 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Love in the time of corona In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Greg, I think if you are looking to create online classes that can build community it is really important to differentiate between synchronous education and asynchronous education. We are used to and I think comfortable with synchronous communication which comes with a lot of oversight built in (e.g. you can see what people are doing with their hands and eyes in your place based classrooms, you can proctor exams). This has been really difficult at my university because it is difficult for people to think about education in different ways (really not that different, I believe asynchronous online communication may actually have a better opportunity of realizing some of Dewey?s ideas than face to face communication). So many professors are using zoom or some other meeting platform, but just because you can see students? faces it does not mean you are recreating synchronous face-to-face education (an interesting factoid, meeting platforms originated precisely so people could do other things while in a meeting, like looking up an idea, so trying to have some control over what students do when on meeting platforms is probably a mugs game). I hear stories of how students are playing video games while they are online in education. Also I think there is pretty good research to suggest that it is difficult to maintain interest in a talking head for more than 7-minutes (I was initially interested in Quibi, but of course this is the U.S. so we have to corporative everything until it turns into much. What asynchronous classes look to is discipline the way Dewey defined it. Students keep coming back because they are interested. This leads to the question of how to maintain interest in an asynchronous platform, because the discipline we are used to is external ? what you should do not what you want to do ? which I think Dewey would not call discipline at all but coercion. Students have a great deal more autonomy online than they do in face-to-face, if only because there is so much less surveillance. I think an important idea is rather than battling against this autonomy which can scare a lot of instructors (including me!!) to lean into it, really try and use it as an asset. Offer a lot of choice in the activities, thinking that when learners have a sense of agency they become more committed to their task. This is of course difficult in our subject oriented educational orientation, that students must know things and they will not know it unless we teach it to them in the right way. We must be rigorous in our education (lately I have been thinking there is a fine line between rigor and indoctrination wondering if the words can be used interchangeably). So in order to develop ?discipline? you must students set their own trajectory out of their interests. This is actually much easier to do online I think and there are a number of instances outside of formal education. Yet of course we cannot in current circumstances give students freedom to find their own subjects (as Dewey suggested) but we can offer our subjects as questions rather than answers, offering provocative information that is somehow relevant to their lives (these days I try and relate the subject I am teaching back to what is going on with the coronavirus). I think students, if they have not become too alienated from the entire educational process, are ready to respond, to have a voice, especially the current generation of students who grew up on this stuff (I think I disagree with Rob?s prior post, students are far more ready for this type of learning that we instructors). Given the opportunity they will find their own level of community, become interested in each other?s ideas. I think it takes time to get there, and there will be failures, but I think it is really beneficial is learners see their instructors looking for answers as much as they are. There are no special tricks to make online education better. It is and will be a lot of hard work. We are paying a price for the fact that a lot of online education has tried to emulate our face to face, linear, synchronous place based education. It also means that the instructor needs to give up some control. We don?t create community, the best we can do is become part of the community as it evolves. Michael From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu On Behalf Of Greg Thompson Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 1:18 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Love in the time of corona Lois and others, Inspiring to see all that you and ESI are doing there in the midst of this whirlwind - and in the eye of the storm no less! This comment of yours seemed to resonate with Liz' and Annalie's comments about mental health: "people are realizing how they feel is not inside them". That seems to me to be a revolutionary thought. Also, I'd ask this to you but don't want to distract you from your important work, so perhaps others can talk about how activities can be transformed in these times to adapt to this new era (I'd like to call it a "moment" but it feels bigger than that). What got me thinking of this were the Zoom sessions that Lois mentioned on Creating Connection and Building Community. The fact is that there will be new possibilities to do these things (e.g., the possibility of truly GLOBAL communities and connections - perhaps to Andy's world-perezhivanie), but the activities that enable these things will also need to be transformed and different. [I'm a bit of an idiot about these things so I'm just realizing that online classes can't just be in-person activities that are taken online. They need online activities that can build connection and community among students. Still working on that.] So I'm wondering if anyone has had any success or even just suggestions regarding how to create online activities that can realize the possibilities and potential for connection and community in online spaces? [I'm thinking really practically/locally here in terms of what can be done in my classes to build connection and community in online spaces, but the answer will, of course, be relevant to forms of cross-national solidarity, granting that there may be other challenges as well - e.g., language]. -greg On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 10:53 AM Lois Holzman > wrote: Hello All, Following the lead of others, I'll jump in. While NYC and state are in serious crisis and all its cultural and economic conflicts even more glaring, the vibrancy and energy has not disappeared. It's just different. As Vygotsky is purported to have said, "A revolution solves only those tasks raised by history..." History has thrown us a monster. Different too are the forces working to shape this extraordinary historical moment. Much of that shaping by those who are in positions of political and economic, etc. authority?and the pandemic itself?are creating fear and despair, both for now and the future. At the same time, the shaping being done by so many thousands of people and organizations that inspire and organize people to exercise their power and creativity for connectedness are generating hope and possibility. I feel that palpably all day long. We in the global development community are re-tooling and/or stepping up our virtual activities, many of which involve play, performance and ensemble building, not to take people's minds off what's happening, but to involve them in some "non-knowing growing" and participation in creating positive responses to what's happening that have the possibility to continue to be transformative of individuals and communities. A few examples? establishing a Global Play Brigade working across borders of nation state, culture and economy (so far performance activists from about 40 countries involved) offering Creating Connection and Building Community free play sessions via Zoom, each one originating in a different part of the world (about 150 people per session so far) taking our Creating Our Mental Health conversation/workshop series national and international in a moment when people are realizing how they feel is not inside them, not merely socially produced and organized, but social in its potential transformativity taking All Stars Project programs for poor youth and their communities in NYC, NJ, Dallas, Chicago and the Bay Area virtual If you're interested in any of this and more, let me know. And you can always check out the social media listed in my signature. Stay safe, Lois -- Access my latest article?Why be Half-Human? How Play, Performance and Practical Philosophy Make Us Whole (written with Cathy Salit)?and read the rest of this marvelous book, Social Construction in Action, which you can download for free! Lois Holzman Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX Distinguished Visiting Fellow in Vygotskian Practice and Performance, Lloyd International Honors College at The University of North Carolina at Greensboro Address: East Side Institute, Attn:Lois Holzman 119 West 23 St, suite 902 New York, NY 10011 Telephone +1.212.941.8906 x324 Mobile 1-917-815-2664 lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org Social Media Facebook | LinkedIn| Twitter Blogs Psychology Today| Psychology of Becoming | Mad in America Websites Lois Holzman | East Side Institute | Performing the World All Stars Project -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200414/fad0c4b3/attachment.html From robsub@ariadne.org.uk Tue Apr 14 13:14:36 2020 From: robsub@ariadne.org.uk (robsub@ariadne.org.uk) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 21:14:36 +0100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Love in the time of corona In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <92933db9-e870-658b-e959-1defd4b3104b@ariadne.org.uk> I don't disagre with you, though :-) Many students are indeed quite ready for this type of learning. And even those I crudely describe as brought up on Snapcaat and Tiktok are often ready for it, they're just not practised at it yet. Once you've got them in the water, they start splashing around with real enthusiasm. But for quite a few, you have to get them in the water. That makes it very imortant to start the course in the right way. Rob On 14/04/2020 20:45, Glassman, Michael wrote: > (I think I disagree with Rob?s prior post, students are far more ready > for this type of learning that we instructors From Anne-Nelly.Perret-Clermont@unine.ch Tue Apr 14 13:20:49 2020 From: Anne-Nelly.Perret-Clermont@unine.ch (PERRET-CLERMONT Anne-Nelly) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 20:20:49 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> Message-ID: Yes, Alfredo. Latour has opened a broader platform: if you follow this link: http://www.bruno-latour.fr/news_and_logs.html and choose:"If you wish to share your auto description: here is a platform:" you arrive here on the platform: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdVIQAEK7azU1JA7YfTBUCKUx_LG_GnNJBN2-d5DfhnVgz8Rg/viewform I am not sure that i understood how the results will be shared. But in fact the main goal is not an inquiry or a poll. The idea is to have everyone at work to describe what really matters to him or her, what s/he wants to preserve/fight for and how and in interdependence with whom. Then these descriptions can be shared, discussed in collectives, made public, invite the creation of alliances, inform politicians, etc. The idea is really down to earth: here and now what matters to me and to whom else? Who (humans and non-humans) are the "allies" and the "ennemies"? Can we draw a sort of map of what we are attached to? These can then be put together, discussed, etc. It is a method in order to advance our understanding of what it is about, knowing that we only have one Planet. For more explanations see Bruno's "A little exercise to make sure that, after the virus crisis, things don?t start again as they were before" http://www.bruno-latour.fr/node/852.html and his book "Down to Earth: Politics in the New Climatic Regime" Anne-Nelly Prof. em. Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont Institut de psychologie et ?ducation Facult? des lettres et sciences humaines Universit? de Neuch?tel Espace Tilo-Frey 1 (Anciennement: Espace Louis-Agassiz 1) CH- 2000 Neuch?tel (Suisse) http://www.unine.ch/ipe/publications/anne_nelly_perret_clermont Derni?res publications: Perret-Clermont, A.-N., Sch?r, R., Greco, S., Convertini, J., Iannaccone, A., & Rocci, A. (2019). Shifting from a monological to a dialogical perspective on children?s argumentation. Lessons learned. In F. H. van Eemren & B. Garssen (Eds.), Argumentation in actual practice. Topical studies about argumentative discourse in context (pp. 211-236): John Benjamins Publishing Company. Version ?lectronique Perret-Clermont, A.-N., Perret, J.-F., Pochon, L.-O., & Marro, P. (2019). L?amiti? partag?e? Hommage ? Jacques Perriault. Hermes, La Revue, 3, 226-226. Iannaccone, A., Perret-Clermont, A.-N., & Convertini, J. (2019). Children as investigators of Brunerian ?Possible worlds?. The role of narrative scenarios in children?s argumentative thinking. . Integrative Psychological and Behiavioral Science, 53, 679-693. Version ?lectronique In J.-P. Fragni?re (Ed.), Agir et penser avec Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont (pp. 71-107). Lausanne: Editions Socialinfo https://www.socialinfo.ch/les-livres/38-agir-et-penser-avec-anne-nelly-perret-clermont.html De : > on behalf of Alfredo Jornet Gil > R?pondre ? : "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Date : samedi, 11 avril 2020 ? 21:08 ? : "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Objet : [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? About e-mails not coming, that?s interesting, Greg (specially given the record!). I did get both Anne-Nelly and Annalie?s e-mails originally sent. So, if it is a systematic thing in the server, it is also selective as to whom it targets! I hope Bruce can help here. Also, the exercise you propose via Anne-Nelly - Latour looks worth trying! I guess there is a broader platform to share the responses linked by Laour?s site? Alfredo From: > on behalf of Greg Thompson > Reply to: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Date: Saturday, 11 April 2020 at 18:40 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Two things. 1. The Listserve is acting misogynistic - I didn't see Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont's OR Annalie PIstorus' original messages to the list, I only saw their comments below the male responses to their comments (Mike's to Anne-Nelly and Ulvi's to Annalie). Maybe the code of the listserve is actually literally structurally biased against women's voices? (I'm half-joking but I'm totally serious about not seeing their original posts). 2. The link that Anne-Nelly sent was to a Bruno Latour paper (link below) that included the challenge to think about what things we can give up or change when life goes back to "normal" so that we aren't still in the same mess that we were before. I wonder if folks on this list might be interested in having a go at the exercise? I'm also curious if Anne-Nelly might be willing to share the thinking that her group has done on this? Here is the list of questions: Let us take advantage of the forced suspension of most activities to take stock of those we would like to see discontinued and those, on the contrary, that we would like to see developed. I suggest that readers try to answer this short questionnaire for themselves. It will be especially useful as it will be based on a personal experience that has been directly lived. This exercise is not a question of expressing an opinion but of describing your situation and may be investigating. It is only later, if one were to give oneself the means of compiling the answers of many respondents and then composing the landscape created by their intersections, that one could find a form of political expression - but this time embodied and situated in a concrete world. Answer the following questions first individually and then if possible with others: Question 1: What are the activities now suspended that you would like to see not resumed? Question 2: Describe why you think this activity is harmful/ superfluous/ dangerous/inconsistent and how its disappearance/suspension/substitution would make the activities you favor easier/ more consistent. (Make a separate paragraph for each of the activities listed in question 1). Question 3: What measures do you recommend to ensure that the workers/employees/agents/entrepreneurs who will no longer be able to continue in the activities you are removing are helped in their transition toward other activities. Question 4: Which of the now suspended activities would you like to develop/resume or even create from scratch? Question 5: Describe why this activity seems positive to you and how it makes it easier/ more harmonious/ consistent with other activities that you favor and helps to combat those that you consider unfavorable. (Make a separate paragraph for each of the activities listed in question 4). Question 6: What measures do you recommend to help workers/ employees/ agents/ entrepreneurs acquire the capacities/ means/ income/ instruments to take over/ develop/ create this favored activity. Now, find a way to compare your descriptions with those of other participants. Compiling and then superimposing the answers should gradually produce a landscape made of lines of conflict, alliances, controversy and opposition. This terrain may provide a concrete opportunity for creating the forms of political expression these activities require. Here are links to the paper in 6 different languages: http://www.bruno-latour.fr/node/852.html Cheers, Greg On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 9:51 PM mike cole > wrote: Hi Anna-Lisa. What you describe has great similarities what people in the US are experiencing with the exception that it is now clear for all to see that it is poverty, or the security of the vulnerable (same thing in my view). Thanks very much for the Latium letter. It is totally relevant right now. Mike On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 9:38 AM PERRET-CLERMONT Anne-Nelly > wrote: Hello everybody! Thank you so much for all the news and perspectives that are being shared from all over the Planet. Such difficult times, especially for those who can?t even send news... Some news from Switzerland, a privileged country, yet with very serious contamination rates. Almost 4 weeks of confinement (rights to go out are very limited and only a limited number of professions are still working) that totally re-organize our private and public life. The sun is shining wonderfully and it is very tempting to move out for this Easter holiday. Nevertheless, most people are very disciplined and stay home in confinement. It took a lot of time for the local, cantonal and federal authorities to decide on the confinement measures. Switzerland?s political traditions impose bottom-up decisions. But the result of this (too slow?) process seems to be that most people agree and comply with this policy. Police forces try to do education and not repression. But the peak of the tide of contamination has not been reached yet and hospitals are under stress. The economic stress due to this long shut down arises a lot of fear on the side of trade unions and employers associations. Switzerland has very large multinational companies, but 90% of its firms are small or medium size business. Quite a number of them are now reaching the edge of bankruptcy. If they should go bankrup,t this would totally disorganise the country, its daily style of life and more: small firms and their locations impact regional demography, resources, power (in a federation of cantons), etc. after compulsory education, 60% of the young people attend dual education (i.e. half time in firms and half-time in school) and if firms shut down this education will fall apart. Government, banks and networks of citizens are lending money and trying to maintain these small firms alive. Unemployment rate is raising but rents have to be paid. Etc? Switzerland is a country of pharmaceutical industry and engineers. But the panic in the hospitals is not over: equipment is insufficient, and drugs are starting to miss. Local enterprises have the know how to make them but ?with ingredients that come exclusively from China and India. Hospitals have been afraid of losing 25% to 40% of their staff as nurses often come from the bordering regions of France and Italy. Finally, these countries have locked their borders but not for those professionals. This does not solve the problem on the long term, of course as these countries also need more medical staff. We hope that a growing awareness of the importance (and respect and salary) due to these professions will finally have the necessary impact. At 9 p.m., everybody goes at the window or balcony to give them a clap (or ring bells or even play music) for a minute to thank all the medical staff and other professions (e.g., cleaners) who likewise take enormous risks and make great efforts. The number of beds in the hospitals has been seriously increased by creative means. The ultraliberal policy of the last decade had seriously cut down the number of beds in hospital and sent many many patients to private practice and ambulatory treatment. But the government, when declaring confinement, has also declared that medical practitioners should only do online treatment and should close their practice. Result: 3 weeks later medical authorities are very worried: many patients in serious conditions or with severe chronic diseases don?t dare to call their medical practitioner and are afraid to go to the emergency services in hospital (fear of overloading them, fear of infection by Covid and fear of being cut out from their families (not allowed in the hospital). The pronostic is a possible wave of very serious cases needing urgent and heavy treatment. This wave will put extra-pressure on the sanitary system already overburden. Meanwhile small medical units are close to bankruptcy : their have to pay the salaries of their staff but have no income to do so. There is also a (still small) growing concern among social scientists that the teams that reflect on the pandemic and the confinement measures (and the planning of the end of the confinement) are made up of exclusively of epidemiologists and economists (with one or two specialists in ethics). Hence the psychic and social problems of the confined population are probably underestimated. Little is known of the underprivileged part of the population, now unemployed, in small housing, with little outreach. Schooling has gone online in a fortnight (with absolutely no preparation) but many students don?t have connections or share the unique computer of the household with parents and siblings all supposedly on line. This is only a few elements that characterise the situation. In parallel, many citizens are becoming increasingly aware of the dangers of the total interdependence of the economy and of the ecological disasters that this creates. Sanitary disasters and ecological disasters are much more interrelated than expected (a very nice book to understand that biological processes and ways of life social life are interdependent: Rob Dunn "Never home alone. >From Microbes to Millipedes, Camel Crickets, and Honeybees, the Natural History of Where We Live"). There are also plenty of many nice examples of solidarity, creativity, etc. They need to converge and be made visible. We (MAPS in University of Neuch?tel) are engaging in a large inquiry based on Bruno Latour?s call (March 29, 2020): "A little exercise to make sure that, after the virus crisis, things don?t start again as they were before" (see http://www.bruno-latour.fr/node/852.html with already versions in English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Polish, German, Dutch). Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont Prof. em. Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont Institut de psychologie et ?ducation Facult? des lettres et sciences humaines Universit? de Neuch?tel Espace Tilo-Frey 1 (Anciennement: Espace Louis-Agassiz 1) CH- 2000 Neuch?tel (Suisse) http://www.unine.ch/ipe/publications/anne_nelly_perret_clermont Last publications: Perret-Clermont, A.-N., Sch?r, R., Greco, S., Convertini, J., Iannaccone, A., & Rocci, A. (2019). Shifting from a monological to a dialogical perspective on children?s argumentation. Lessons learned. In F. H. van Eemren & B. Garssen (Eds.), Argumentation in actual practice. Topical studies about argumentative discourse in context (pp. 211-236): John Benjamins Publishing Company. Version ?lectronique Iannaccone, A., Perret-Clermont, A.-N., & Convertini, J. (2019). Children as investigators of Brunerian ?Possible worlds?. The role of narrative scenarios in children?s argumentative thinking. . Integrative Psychological and Behiavioral Science, 53, 679-693. Version ?lectronique Perret-Clermont, A.-N., Perret, J.-F., Pochon, L.-O., & Marro, P. (2019). Hommage ? Jacques Perriault. Hermes, La Revue, 3, 226-226. In J.-P. Fragni?re (Ed.), Agir et penser avec Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont (pp. 71-107). Lausanne: Editions Socialinfo https://www.socialinfo.ch/les-livres/38-agir-et-penser-avec-anne-nelly-perret-clermont.html -- Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a landslide. Roy D'Andrade --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200414/10ed619c/attachment.html From Anne-Nelly.Perret-Clermont@unine.ch Tue Apr 14 13:22:14 2020 From: Anne-Nelly.Perret-Clermont@unine.ch (PERRET-CLERMONT Anne-Nelly) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 20:22:14 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> Message-ID: Yes! Great! Helena, this is the goal. And then we can try to share our new understandings. Anne-Nelly Prof. em. Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont Institut de psychologie et ?ducation Facult? des lettres et sciences humaines Universit? de Neuch?tel Espace Tilo-Frey 1 (Anciennement: Espace Louis-Agassiz 1) CH- 2000 Neuch?tel (Suisse) http://www.unine.ch/ipe/publications/anne_nelly_perret_clermont De : > on behalf of Helena Worthen > R?pondre ? : "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Date : samedi, 11 avril 2020 ? 21:42 ? : "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Objet : [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? The Latour exercise that Anne-Nelly provides is really provocative!!! I did it; it takes 10-15 minutes and helped me clarify my thinking. Thank you. Here?s the link again: http://www.bruno-latour.fr/node/852.html Helena Worthen helenaworthen.wordpress.com On Apr 10, 2020, at 8:48 PM, mike cole > wrote: Hi Anna-Lisa. What you describe has great similarities what people in the US are experiencing with the exception that it is now clear for all to see that it is poverty, or the security of the vulnerable (same thing in my view). Thanks very much for the Latium letter. It is totally relevant right now. Mike On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 9:38 AM PERRET-CLERMONT Anne-Nelly > wrote: Hello everybody! Thank you so much for all the news and perspectives that are being shared from all over the Planet. Such difficult times, especially for those who can?t even send news... Some news from Switzerland, a privileged country, yet with very serious contamination rates. Almost 4 weeks of confinement (rights to go out are very limited and only a limited number of professions are still working) that totally re-organize our private and public life. The sun is shining wonderfully and it is very tempting to move out for this Easter holiday. Nevertheless, most people are very disciplined and stay home in confinement. It took a lot of time for the local, cantonal and federal authorities to decide on the confinement measures. Switzerland?s political traditions impose bottom-up decisions. But the result of this (too slow?) process seems to be that most people agree and comply with this policy. Police forces try to do education and not repression. But the peak of the tide of contamination has not been reached yet and hospitals are under stress. The economic stress due to this long shut down arises a lot of fear on the side of trade unions and employers associations. Switzerland has very large multinational companies, but 90% of its firms are small or medium size business. Quite a number of them are now reaching the edge of bankruptcy. If they should go bankrup,t this would totally disorganise the country, its daily style of life and more: small firms and their locations impact regional demography, resources, power (in a federation of cantons), etc. after compulsory education, 60% of the young people attend dual education (i.e. half time in firms and half-time in school) and if firms shut down this education will fall apart. Government, banks and networks of citizens are lending money and trying to maintain these small firms alive. Unemployment rate is raising but rents have to be paid. Etc? Switzerland is a country of pharmaceutical industry and engineers. But the panic in the hospitals is not over: equipment is insufficient, and drugs are starting to miss. Local enterprises have the know how to make them but ?with ingredients that come exclusively from China and India. Hospitals have been afraid of losing 25% to 40% of their staff as nurses often come from the bordering regions of France and Italy. Finally, these countries have locked their borders but not for those professionals. This does not solve the problem on the long term, of course as these countries also need more medical staff. We hope that a growing awareness of the importance (and respect and salary) due to these professions will finally have the necessary impact. At 9 p.m., everybody goes at the window or balcony to give them a clap (or ring bells or even play music) for a minute to thank all the medical staff and other professions (e.g., cleaners) who likewise take enormous risks and make great efforts. The number of beds in the hospitals has been seriously increased by creative means. The ultraliberal policy of the last decade had seriously cut down the number of beds in hospital and sent many many patients to private practice and ambulatory treatment. But the government, when declaring confinement, has also declared that medical practitioners should only do online treatment and should close their practice. Result: 3 weeks later medical authorities are very worried: many patients in serious conditions or with severe chronic diseases don?t dare to call their medical practitioner and are afraid to go to the emergency services in hospital (fear of overloading them, fear of infection by Covid and fear of being cut out from their families (not allowed in the hospital). The pronostic is a possible wave of very serious cases needing urgent and heavy treatment. This wave will put extra-pressure on the sanitary system already overburden. Meanwhile small medical units are close to bankruptcy : their have to pay the salaries of their staff but have no income to do so. There is also a (still small) growing concern among social scientists that the teams that reflect on the pandemic and the confinement measures (and the planning of the end of the confinement) are made up of exclusively of epidemiologists and economists (with one or two specialists in ethics). Hence the psychic and social problems of the confined population are probably underestimated. Little is known of the underprivileged part of the population, now unemployed, in small housing, with little outreach. Schooling has gone online in a fortnight (with absolutely no preparation) but many students don?t have connections or share the unique computer of the household with parents and siblings all supposedly on line. This is only a few elements that characterise the situation. In parallel, many citizens are becoming increasingly aware of the dangers of the total interdependence of the economy and of the ecological disasters that this creates. Sanitary disasters and ecological disasters are much more interrelated than expected (a very nice book to understand that biological processes and ways of life social life are interdependent: Rob Dunn "Never home alone. >From Microbes to Millipedes, Camel Crickets, and Honeybees, the Natural History of Where We Live"). There are also plenty of many nice examples of solidarity, creativity, etc. They need to converge and be made visible. We (MAPS in University of Neuch?tel) are engaging in a large inquiry based on Bruno Latour?s call (March 29, 2020): "A little exercise to make sure that, after the virus crisis, things don?t start again as they were before" (see http://www.bruno-latour.fr/node/852.html with already versions in English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Polish, German, Dutch). Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont Prof. em. Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont Institut de psychologie et ?ducation Facult? des lettres et sciences humaines Universit? de Neuch?tel Espace Tilo-Frey 1 (Anciennement: Espace Louis-Agassiz 1) CH- 2000 Neuch?tel (Suisse) http://www.unine.ch/ipe/publications/anne_nelly_perret_clermont Last publications: Perret-Clermont, A.-N., Sch?r, R., Greco, S., Convertini, J., Iannaccone, A., & Rocci, A. (2019). Shifting from a monological to a dialogical perspective on children?s argumentation. Lessons learned. In F. H. van Eemren & B. Garssen (Eds.), Argumentation in actual practice. Topical studies about argumentative discourse in context (pp. 211-236): John Benjamins Publishing Company. Version ?lectronique Iannaccone, A., Perret-Clermont, A.-N., & Convertini, J. (2019). Children as investigators of Brunerian ?Possible worlds?. The role of narrative scenarios in children?s argumentative thinking. . Integrative Psychological and Behiavioral Science, 53, 679-693. Version ?lectronique Perret-Clermont, A.-N., Perret, J.-F., Pochon, L.-O., & Marro, P. (2019). Hommage ? Jacques Perriault. Hermes, La Revue, 3, 226-226. In J.-P. Fragni?re (Ed.), Agir et penser avec Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont (pp. 71-107). Lausanne: Editions Socialinfo https://www.socialinfo.ch/les-livres/38-agir-et-penser-avec-anne-nelly-perret-clermont.html -- Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a landslide. Roy D'Andrade --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200414/b88854f8/attachment.html From Anne-Nelly.Perret-Clermont@unine.ch Tue Apr 14 13:26:13 2020 From: Anne-Nelly.Perret-Clermont@unine.ch (PERRET-CLERMONT Anne-Nelly) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 20:26:13 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> Message-ID: Thanks Alfredo. I have already tried to answer this questionnaire several times. I observe changes in my answers? due to social interactions, growing sensibility, experience of the changes induced by covid19? Yours, Anne-Nelly Prof. em. Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont Institut de psychologie et ?ducation Facult? des lettres et sciences humaines Universit? de Neuch?tel Espace Tilo-Frey 1 (Anciennement: Espace Louis-Agassiz 1) CH- 2000 Neuch?tel (Suisse) http://www.unine.ch/ipe/publications/anne_nelly_perret_clermont De : > on behalf of Alfredo Jornet Gil > R?pondre ? : "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Date : samedi, 11 avril 2020 ? 22:47 ? : "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" >, Kloetzer Laure priv? > Objet : [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? One way could be compiling them in a google docs. Each question could be written as a heading, and under each heading, each participat writes name in Bold and then answer in body type. Would this work and would people be willing to fill in? If yes, here is a Google doc anyone could fill in: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1s23bmSz-Su4hohICZE_il8ujuhecIt2PeRcSa_TeSjw/edit?usp=sharing Alfredo From: > on behalf of Helena Worthen > Reply to: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Date: Saturday, 11 April 2020 at 22:37 To: "laure.kloetzer@gmail.com" >, "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Hi, Laure ? It looks as if each group to which this is disseminated has to collect its own results and share them among themselves. I wish we could compile results across xmca at least to see which are the two activities chosen by this widespread community. H Helena Worthen helenaworthen.wordpress.com On Apr 11, 2020, at 12:48 PM, Laure Kloetzer > wrote: Good evening, In Neuch?tel, we sent an adapted version of the Latour questionnaire to our students for gathering their own reflections, with the goal to discuss them altogether after all this. Take care, Laure Kloetzer Le sam. 11 avr. 2020 ? 21:46, Helena Worthen > a ?crit : The Latour exercise that Anne-Nelly provides is really provocative!!! I did it; it takes 10-15 minutes and helped me clarify my thinking. Thank you. Here?s the link again: http://www.bruno-latour.fr/node/852.html Helena Worthen helenaworthen.wordpress.com On Apr 10, 2020, at 8:48 PM, mike cole > wrote: Hi Anna-Lisa. What you describe has great similarities what people in the US are experiencing with the exception that it is now clear for all to see that it is poverty, or the security of the vulnerable (same thing in my view). Thanks very much for the Latium letter. It is totally relevant right now. Mike On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 9:38 AM PERRET-CLERMONT Anne-Nelly > wrote: Hello everybody! Thank you so much for all the news and perspectives that are being shared from all over the Planet. Such difficult times, especially for those who can?t even send news... Some news from Switzerland, a privileged country, yet with very serious contamination rates. Almost 4 weeks of confinement (rights to go out are very limited and only a limited number of professions are still working) that totally re-organize our private and public life. The sun is shining wonderfully and it is very tempting to move out for this Easter holiday. Nevertheless, most people are very disciplined and stay home in confinement. It took a lot of time for the local, cantonal and federal authorities to decide on the confinement measures. Switzerland?s political traditions impose bottom-up decisions. But the result of this (too slow?) process seems to be that most people agree and comply with this policy. Police forces try to do education and not repression. But the peak of the tide of contamination has not been reached yet and hospitals are under stress. The economic stress due to this long shut down arises a lot of fear on the side of trade unions and employers associations. Switzerland has very large multinational companies, but 90% of its firms are small or medium size business. Quite a number of them are now reaching the edge of bankruptcy. If they should go bankrup,t this would totally disorganise the country, its daily style of life and more: small firms and their locations impact regional demography, resources, power (in a federation of cantons), etc. after compulsory education, 60% of the young people attend dual education (i.e. half time in firms and half-time in school) and if firms shut down this education will fall apart. Government, banks and networks of citizens are lending money and trying to maintain these small firms alive. Unemployment rate is raising but rents have to be paid. Etc? Switzerland is a country of pharmaceutical industry and engineers. But the panic in the hospitals is not over: equipment is insufficient, and drugs are starting to miss. Local enterprises have the know how to make them but ?with ingredients that come exclusively from China and India. Hospitals have been afraid of losing 25% to 40% of their staff as nurses often come from the bordering regions of France and Italy. Finally, these countries have locked their borders but not for those professionals. This does not solve the problem on the long term, of course as these countries also need more medical staff. We hope that a growing awareness of the importance (and respect and salary) due to these professions will finally have the necessary impact. At 9 p.m., everybody goes at the window or balcony to give them a clap (or ring bells or even play music) for a minute to thank all the medical staff and other professions (e.g., cleaners) who likewise take enormous risks and make great efforts. The number of beds in the hospitals has been seriously increased by creative means. The ultraliberal policy of the last decade had seriously cut down the number of beds in hospital and sent many many patients to private practice and ambulatory treatment. But the government, when declaring confinement, has also declared that medical practitioners should only do online treatment and should close their practice. Result: 3 weeks later medical authorities are very worried: many patients in serious conditions or with severe chronic diseases don?t dare to call their medical practitioner and are afraid to go to the emergency services in hospital (fear of overloading them, fear of infection by Covid and fear of being cut out from their families (not allowed in the hospital). The pronostic is a possible wave of very serious cases needing urgent and heavy treatment. This wave will put extra-pressure on the sanitary system already overburden. Meanwhile small medical units are close to bankruptcy : their have to pay the salaries of their staff but have no income to do so. There is also a (still small) growing concern among social scientists that the teams that reflect on the pandemic and the confinement measures (and the planning of the end of the confinement) are made up of exclusively of epidemiologists and economists (with one or two specialists in ethics). Hence the psychic and social problems of the confined population are probably underestimated. Little is known of the underprivileged part of the population, now unemployed, in small housing, with little outreach. Schooling has gone online in a fortnight (with absolutely no preparation) but many students don?t have connections or share the unique computer of the household with parents and siblings all supposedly on line. This is only a few elements that characterise the situation. In parallel, many citizens are becoming increasingly aware of the dangers of the total interdependence of the economy and of the ecological disasters that this creates. Sanitary disasters and ecological disasters are much more interrelated than expected (a very nice book to understand that biological processes and ways of life social life are interdependent: Rob Dunn "Never home alone. >From Microbes to Millipedes, Camel Crickets, and Honeybees, the Natural History of Where We Live"). There are also plenty of many nice examples of solidarity, creativity, etc. They need to converge and be made visible. We (MAPS in University of Neuch?tel) are engaging in a large inquiry based on Bruno Latour?s call (March 29, 2020): "A little exercise to make sure that, after the virus crisis, things don?t start again as they were before" (see http://www.bruno-latour.fr/node/852.html with already versions in English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Polish, German, Dutch). Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont Prof. em. Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont Institut de psychologie et ?ducation Facult? des lettres et sciences humaines Universit? de Neuch?tel Espace Tilo-Frey 1 (Anciennement: Espace Louis-Agassiz 1) CH- 2000 Neuch?tel (Suisse) http://www.unine.ch/ipe/publications/anne_nelly_perret_clermont Last publications: Perret-Clermont, A.-N., Sch?r, R., Greco, S., Convertini, J., Iannaccone, A., & Rocci, A. (2019). Shifting from a monological to a dialogical perspective on children?s argumentation. Lessons learned. In F. H. van Eemren & B. Garssen (Eds.), Argumentation in actual practice. Topical studies about argumentative discourse in context (pp. 211-236): John Benjamins Publishing Company. Version ?lectronique Iannaccone, A., Perret-Clermont, A.-N., & Convertini, J. (2019). Children as investigators of Brunerian ?Possible worlds?. The role of narrative scenarios in children?s argumentative thinking. . Integrative Psychological and Behiavioral Science, 53, 679-693. Version ?lectronique Perret-Clermont, A.-N., Perret, J.-F., Pochon, L.-O., & Marro, P. (2019). Hommage ? Jacques Perriault. Hermes, La Revue, 3, 226-226. In J.-P. Fragni?re (Ed.), Agir et penser avec Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont (pp. 71-107). Lausanne: Editions Socialinfo https://www.socialinfo.ch/les-livres/38-agir-et-penser-avec-anne-nelly-perret-clermont.html -- Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a landslide. Roy D'Andrade --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200414/e8069d31/attachment.html From a.j.gil@ils.uio.no Tue Apr 14 13:38:31 2020 From: a.j.gil@ils.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 20:38:31 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> Message-ID: <50C2D0A2-BE61-4049-BBEE-D8317B9DCE62@uio.no> Thanks Anne-Nelly. I haven?t yet answered myself, haven?t got the time to sit back and reflect yet (for some, the isolation is slowing down, for others it means frenetic activity all the time?). Will do my best to find the time by the end of the week though. And I wanted to say that anyone in this list may insert answers without necessarily having to write their (real) name. Anything to mark that there is a new entry should suffice. I am thinking of anyone who might want to contribute but who for one or another reason may prefer to stay anonymous. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1s23bmSz-Su4hohICZE_il8ujuhecIt2PeRcSa_TeSjw/edit?usp=sharing Best, Alfredo From: on behalf of PERRET-CLERMONT Anne-Nelly Reply to: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Date: Tuesday, 14 April 2020 at 22:31 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Thanks Alfredo. I have already tried to answer this questionnaire several times. I observe changes in my answers? due to social interactions, growing sensibility, experience of the changes induced by covid19? Yours, Anne-Nelly Prof. em. Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont Institut de psychologie et ?ducation Facult? des lettres et sciences humaines Universit? de Neuch?tel Espace Tilo-Frey 1 (Anciennement: Espace Louis-Agassiz 1) CH- 2000 Neuch?tel (Suisse) http://www.unine.ch/ipe/publications/anne_nelly_perret_clermont De : > on behalf of Alfredo Jornet Gil > R?pondre ? : "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Date : samedi, 11 avril 2020 ? 22:47 ? : "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" >, Kloetzer Laure priv? > Objet : [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? One way could be compiling them in a google docs. Each question could be written as a heading, and under each heading, each participat writes name in Bold and then answer in body type. Would this work and would people be willing to fill in? If yes, here is a Google doc anyone could fill in: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1s23bmSz-Su4hohICZE_il8ujuhecIt2PeRcSa_TeSjw/edit?usp=sharing Alfredo From: > on behalf of Helena Worthen > Reply to: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Date: Saturday, 11 April 2020 at 22:37 To: "laure.kloetzer@gmail.com" >, "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Hi, Laure ? It looks as if each group to which this is disseminated has to collect its own results and share them among themselves. I wish we could compile results across xmca at least to see which are the two activities chosen by this widespread community. H Helena Worthen helenaworthen.wordpress.com On Apr 11, 2020, at 12:48 PM, Laure Kloetzer > wrote: Good evening, In Neuch?tel, we sent an adapted version of the Latour questionnaire to our students for gathering their own reflections, with the goal to discuss them altogether after all this. Take care, Laure Kloetzer Le sam. 11 avr. 2020 ? 21:46, Helena Worthen > a ?crit : The Latour exercise that Anne-Nelly provides is really provocative!!! I did it; it takes 10-15 minutes and helped me clarify my thinking. Thank you. Here?s the link again: http://www.bruno-latour.fr/node/852.html Helena Worthen helenaworthen.wordpress.com On Apr 10, 2020, at 8:48 PM, mike cole > wrote: Hi Anna-Lisa. What you describe has great similarities what people in the US are experiencing with the exception that it is now clear for all to see that it is poverty, or the security of the vulnerable (same thing in my view). Thanks very much for the Latium letter. It is totally relevant right now. Mike On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 9:38 AM PERRET-CLERMONT Anne-Nelly > wrote: Hello everybody! Thank you so much for all the news and perspectives that are being shared from all over the Planet. Such difficult times, especially for those who can?t even send news... Some news from Switzerland, a privileged country, yet with very serious contamination rates. Almost 4 weeks of confinement (rights to go out are very limited and only a limited number of professions are still working) that totally re-organize our private and public life. The sun is shining wonderfully and it is very tempting to move out for this Easter holiday. Nevertheless, most people are very disciplined and stay home in confinement. It took a lot of time for the local, cantonal and federal authorities to decide on the confinement measures. Switzerland?s political traditions impose bottom-up decisions. But the result of this (too slow?) process seems to be that most people agree and comply with this policy. Police forces try to do education and not repression. But the peak of the tide of contamination has not been reached yet and hospitals are under stress. The economic stress due to this long shut down arises a lot of fear on the side of trade unions and employers associations. Switzerland has very large multinational companies, but 90% of its firms are small or medium size business. Quite a number of them are now reaching the edge of bankruptcy. If they should go bankrup,t this would totally disorganise the country, its daily style of life and more: small firms and their locations impact regional demography, resources, power (in a federation of cantons), etc. after compulsory education, 60% of the young people attend dual education (i.e. half time in firms and half-time in school) and if firms shut down this education will fall apart. Government, banks and networks of citizens are lending money and trying to maintain these small firms alive. Unemployment rate is raising but rents have to be paid. Etc? Switzerland is a country of pharmaceutical industry and engineers. But the panic in the hospitals is not over: equipment is insufficient, and drugs are starting to miss. Local enterprises have the know how to make them but ?with ingredients that come exclusively from China and India. Hospitals have been afraid of losing 25% to 40% of their staff as nurses often come from the bordering regions of France and Italy. Finally, these countries have locked their borders but not for those professionals. This does not solve the problem on the long term, of course as these countries also need more medical staff. We hope that a growing awareness of the importance (and respect and salary) due to these professions will finally have the necessary impact. At 9 p.m., everybody goes at the window or balcony to give them a clap (or ring bells or even play music) for a minute to thank all the medical staff and other professions (e.g., cleaners) who likewise take enormous risks and make great efforts. The number of beds in the hospitals has been seriously increased by creative means. The ultraliberal policy of the last decade had seriously cut down the number of beds in hospital and sent many many patients to private practice and ambulatory treatment. But the government, when declaring confinement, has also declared that medical practitioners should only do online treatment and should close their practice. Result: 3 weeks later medical authorities are very worried: many patients in serious conditions or with severe chronic diseases don?t dare to call their medical practitioner and are afraid to go to the emergency services in hospital (fear of overloading them, fear of infection by Covid and fear of being cut out from their families (not allowed in the hospital). The pronostic is a possible wave of very serious cases needing urgent and heavy treatment. This wave will put extra-pressure on the sanitary system already overburden. Meanwhile small medical units are close to bankruptcy : their have to pay the salaries of their staff but have no income to do so. There is also a (still small) growing concern among social scientists that the teams that reflect on the pandemic and the confinement measures (and the planning of the end of the confinement) are made up of exclusively of epidemiologists and economists (with one or two specialists in ethics). Hence the psychic and social problems of the confined population are probably underestimated. Little is known of the underprivileged part of the population, now unemployed, in small housing, with little outreach. Schooling has gone online in a fortnight (with absolutely no preparation) but many students don?t have connections or share the unique computer of the household with parents and siblings all supposedly on line. This is only a few elements that characterise the situation. In parallel, many citizens are becoming increasingly aware of the dangers of the total interdependence of the economy and of the ecological disasters that this creates. Sanitary disasters and ecological disasters are much more interrelated than expected (a very nice book to understand that biological processes and ways of life social life are interdependent: Rob Dunn "Never home alone. From Microbes to Millipedes, Camel Crickets, and Honeybees, the Natural History of Where We Live"). There are also plenty of many nice examples of solidarity, creativity, etc. They need to converge and be made visible. We (MAPS in University of Neuch?tel) are engaging in a large inquiry based on Bruno Latour?s call (March 29, 2020): "A little exercise to make sure that, after the virus crisis, things don?t start again as they were before" (see http://www.bruno-latour.fr/node/852.html with already versions in English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Polish, German, Dutch). Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont Prof. em. Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont Institut de psychologie et ?ducation Facult? des lettres et sciences humaines Universit? de Neuch?tel Espace Tilo-Frey 1 (Anciennement: Espace Louis-Agassiz 1) CH- 2000 Neuch?tel (Suisse) http://www.unine.ch/ipe/publications/anne_nelly_perret_clermont Last publications: Perret-Clermont, A.-N., Sch?r, R., Greco, S., Convertini, J., Iannaccone, A., & Rocci, A. (2019). Shifting from a monological to a dialogical perspective on children?s argumentation. Lessons learned. In F. H. van Eemren & B. Garssen (Eds.), Argumentation in actual practice. Topical studies about argumentative discourse in context (pp. 211-236): John Benjamins Publishing Company. Version ?lectronique Iannaccone, A., Perret-Clermont, A.-N., & Convertini, J. (2019). Children as investigators of Brunerian ?Possible worlds?. The role of narrative scenarios in children?s argumentative thinking. . Integrative Psychological and Behiavioral Science, 53, 679-693. Version ?lectronique Perret-Clermont, A.-N., Perret, J.-F., Pochon, L.-O., & Marro, P. (2019). Hommage ? Jacques Perriault. Hermes, La Revue, 3, 226-226. In J.-P. Fragni?re (Ed.), Agir et penser avec Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont (pp. 71-107). Lausanne: Editions Socialinfo https://www.socialinfo.ch/les-livres/38-agir-et-penser-avec-anne-nelly-perret-clermont.html -- Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a landslide. Roy D'Andrade --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200414/8a50c577/attachment.html From dkellogg60@gmail.com Tue Apr 14 14:04:02 2020 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2020 06:04:02 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Language in the Time of Covid 19 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks, Bowen! I love the chop. It's a female, of course--because it's carved in instead of carved out--very appropriate for kibitzing.... Election in South Korea today! I have to go vote before the asymptomatic positives are allowed to vote in the evening. Hey--it's a whole lot better than what they had in Wisconsin.... David Kellogg Sangmyung University Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of *Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational action research' in Mind Culture and Activity* https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 Some free e-prints available at: https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 10:19 PM Tom Richardson < tom.richardson3@googlemail.com> wrote: > David Kellogg's latest 'clarification' is a real source of light and > uplift to me, reducing the every bit of distance between us (all), apart > from the social - David, you feel very close. > I trust that this message does not break any xmca rules about personal > comment. > Tom Richardson (kibitzer) Middlesbrough UK > BoWen > > > On Tue, 14 Apr 2020 at 03:11, David Kellogg wrote: > >> In Korea we have a delightful kind of miniature waffe filled with sweet >> red beans called a ??? (literally, "carp bread"); and in Korean we have a >> rather sardonic saying, "????? ??? ??" (not too literally, "there just >> ain't no carp in a carp bread"). >> >> One could go all post-modern on this point and talk about Baudrillard and >> simulacra and how chicken testicles are not McNuggets, but one would break >> the one screen rule: I really just want a colorful way to frame the >> argument that there ain't no instruction in self-instruction, at least not >> in the good old Vygotskyan sense of ???????? (obuchenie, >> teaching-and-learning, as Mike has insisted that it should be translated). >> Self-instruction is not instruction--because the whole point of ???????? is >> a higher form of interdependency we call development; it's not just the >> viral replication of behavior in a form independent from the original. >> >> Three other points of language in the time of Covid 19 seem worth keeping >> in mind as we try to scale up some of the "moments" of XMCA, even to the >> level of the Latour website (it seems to me that responding on the Website >> he designed is probably more scalable than having our own Google Doc, which >> is why I didn't contribute to the Google Doc, Helena....) >> >> a) There is no "social" in "social distancing". The distancing we are >> after is really a mechanical, physiological, medical distance and not a >> social one at all: on the contrary, mechanical distancing is a very high >> form of social solidarity, and as such it comes at a price. One of the >> bereaved wives on the BBC put this beautifully (through her tears). "I am >> alone. I am not lonely, because I have many people talking to me on-line. I >> am less lonely than ever. But I am far more alone. No one can give me a >> hug." >> >> b) There is no "coronavirus" in Covid 19. Just as HIV is not the same >> thing as AIDS, the specific type of coronavirus SARS-Co2-19 is not the same >> thing as the illness which killed Lucien Seve. This seems trivial, except >> that eventually we will have to get it through thick skulls, our own and >> those of our conspecifics, that there are many different coronaviruses and >> most of them are harmless. But more importantly we need to understand that >> many people are going to be dying of things that are only indirectly >> related to the virus and which are directly related to real social >> conditions >> >> (You can skip this part, Helena: it's an exemplificatory aside....I just >> heard Dr. John Campbell, whose views I respect less and less, argue that >> one reason why black people suffer disproportionately from Covid 19 has >> something to do with dark skin and a lack of Vitamin D. This is rather like >> the Chinese who claimed that the reason the disease strikes men harder than >> women must have something to do with the X chromosome rather than, say, the >> simple social fact that in China 50% of men smoke and only 5% of women do. >> Or the catastrophic belief of the US administration that the disease could >> be halted by a physical travel ban back when the process of community >> spread was already well underway.) >> >> c) Many units of social practice are neither scalable nor transitional, >> e.g. on-line classes and the practice of mooing from your balcony instead >> of singing in support of the National Health Service (as they do in the >> dairy town of Belpy in England), But language is both. As Ruqaiya Hasan >> liked to say, the reason why language solves so many of our problems is >> that language itself is the source of many of our problems, needs, desires, >> hopes, dreams, drives. But that's just another way of saying that you don't >> experience a perizhivanie as problematic until you also experience, in the >> dark and just beyond your fingertips but still exquisitely and >> very palbably there, some means for its solution. >> >> David Kellogg >> Sangmyung University >> >> Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of *Critical >> Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational >> action research' in Mind Culture and Activity* >> >> https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 >> >> Some free e-prints available at: >> >> >> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847 >> >> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works >> Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" >> >> https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270 >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200415/e8459be7/attachment-0001.html From wendy.maples@outlook.com Wed Apr 15 04:58:53 2020 From: wendy.maples@outlook.com (Wendy Maples) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2020 11:58:53 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Love in the time of corona In-Reply-To: <94006abc-9b52-66b2-03c9-76a1827d2288@ariadne.org.uk> References: , <94006abc-9b52-66b2-03c9-76a1827d2288@ariadne.org.uk> Message-ID: As someone who worked in distance ed for over 20 years, the last 10 of that in varying online environments, I can endorse what Rob (who I worked with for over 10 of those years) says below. Though he doesn't use the term, much of what Rob describes is project-based learning. It is remarkable what students can do 'together' online, whether synchronously or asynchronously. I am not sure who was keen to make the distinction (and the distinction is important), however, both sync and async are valuable modes for teaching and learning (and some intermingling of the two might possibly be best). Three things that I would add to Rob's description of good online learning processes are: 1. The importance of having a 'get to know you' session -- which I would argue, for synchronous learning environments, is essential. I have experienced the value of this in both educational and business settings. The 'get-to-know-you' should be clearly flagged as a chance to say hello in a zero-risk setting. It should be short and involve an easy introduction, 'If you can hear me, click on the hand-raise/yes/thumbs up button; if you have used Zoom before, click on...; if you like cheese.... Then proceed to a game, such as put a pin on a map, showing where they are; or share a photo of a pet or houseplant; bring a 'tool' to your learning - an image, a description, a motivational quote, etc. Then offer a chance to talk with another student about hopes, motivations, etc. Which bring me to: 2. Use break-out rooms (or small group set threads) so that very small numbers of students (2-3) need to speak with each other on a particular task. In the 'get-to-know-you', this might be as simple as 'What are your hopes for this course?' or 'Agree on one question you'd like to ask the tutor.' or 'What's a key concern/topic you hope the course will cover?', etc. The break-out group then returns to the main session and relays what they have come up with. 3. In synchronous sessions, don't be afraid of what may feel like long silences -- and don't be tempted to fill them! By all means check if your question or prompt was clear, but -- as in f2f sessions -- don't be tempted to answer yourself ?. Similarly, in asynchronous, if you are confident the prompt/question/task and deadline for engaging is clear, don't be tempted to jump in with a long string of your own postings. Offer encouragement, of course and -- if you become convinced you've asked the wrong Q or set the wrong task -- revise. I hope this is helpful! W ________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of robsub@ariadne.org.uk Sent: 14 April 2020 17:47 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity ; Greg Thompson Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Love in the time of corona For what it's worth here are a few thoughts on creating online activities. I don't think there is a one size fits all answer because students (as well as teachers!) come from all sorts of different cultures with all sorts of different expectation about community. But I hope that some of my suggestions will work broadly - my hope is based on my background, which is in the competitive individualist west, where the biggest problem about learning communities is getting out of students' heads the idea that any kind of collaboration is tantamount to collusion and will be punished with the utmost severity. (I find I have had to work at getting that out of a lot of teachers' heads as well.) So basically, if it works on my students, there is a good chance that it will work elsewhere. I don't think you should work at community directly. it is something best sneaked up on in the course of other activity. But the other activity has to be carefully and artfully constructed. That's one of many reasons why you don't make an online course by chucking offine material on to the web. There are two aspects - being online and working together. Being online will be a challenge for many students. A lifetime of texting, Snapchatting, Tiktoking, and ordering your clothes, holidays and pizza over the internet does not prepare people for using an online learning environment. So you have to expect people to be clueless to start with. But you should act as if this is an entirely natural environment right from the start. You need to make it their assumption that they will be working together every week if not more often. You need to make it their assumption that if they're live online, they will see and hear each other. It's astonishing in some of the courses I've seen how many students have microphones that don't work :-) So design your teaching and your assessment work to perhaps enforce, certainly encourage, working together. The more they work together, the more a sense of community will grow. In my environment, students follow the marks, even the disengaged ones. if there are marks available for collaborative activities, they will do them. They will do them with less or more of a sense of engagement, but the hope is that as they get used to them, students will recognise the intrinsic rewards as well as the extrinsic ones. I don't know what your assessment strategy will be. The standard at the OU is a series of assignments roughly once a month over a nine month course. Each assignment should contain some kind of collaborative element. Even the simplest will do - quote two substantial and meaningful posts you have written in the online forum. There is plenty of room for interpretation of "substantial and meaningful" but you get the idea. Then you work up to them working in teams to produce, say, an annotated bibliography on a specific topic, or a powerpoint on something.And you can assess the way they work together in a forum to produce this. Sounds daunting - I've done it, works easier than you think. If you're working with them live, give them opportunities to work together on exercises or issues. Even if there are only two of them, put them in a breakout room together. Without you there, they have to talk to each other. Incorporate exercises like "how am I doing?" Get students to assess their own progress against the learning outcomes of the course, and discuss with each other. You could give them an exercise after working on it individually, to come to a combined ranking of the two or three bits of the course that they most need to revisit. (Which you obviously then revisit, and get the students who think they're Ok on it to teach the others.) I have so much more to say. I could write a book, as you can tell. I'd be very happy to give more detail, perhaps off-list. Final thought: people often compare ftf and online communities by different standards. Ftf communities all have weaknesses and failings but because they're familiar, we assume they're working. Because online communities are new and unfamiliar, we tend to see all their faults and weaknesses and judge them by standards that we don't apply to the ftf world. Rob On 13/04/2020 18:17, Greg Thompson wrote: Lois and others, Inspiring to see all that you and ESI are doing there in the midst of this whirlwind - and in the eye of the storm no less! This comment of yours seemed to resonate with Liz' and Annalie's comments about mental health: "people are realizing how they feel is not inside them". That seems to me to be a revolutionary thought. Also, I'd ask this to you but don't want to distract you from your important work, so perhaps others can talk about how activities can be transformed in these times to adapt to this new era (I'd like to call it a "moment" but it feels bigger than that). What got me thinking of this were the Zoom sessions that Lois mentioned on Creating Connection and Building Community. The fact is that there will be new possibilities to do these things (e.g., the possibility of truly GLOBAL communities and connections - perhaps to Andy's world-perezhivanie), but the activities that enable these things will also need to be transformed and different. [I'm a bit of an idiot about these things so I'm just realizing that online classes can't just be in-person activities that are taken online. They need online activities that can build connection and community among students. Still working on that.] So I'm wondering if anyone has had any success or even just suggestions regarding how to create online activities that can realize the possibilities and potential for connection and community in online spaces? [I'm thinking really practically/locally here in terms of what can be done in my classes to build connection and community in online spaces, but the answer will, of course, be relevant to forms of cross-national solidarity, granting that there may be other challenges as well - e.g., language]. -greg On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 10:53 AM Lois Holzman > wrote: Hello All, Following the lead of others, I'll jump in. While NYC and state are in serious crisis and all its cultural and economic conflicts even more glaring, the vibrancy and energy has not disappeared. It's just different. As Vygotsky is purported to have said, "A revolution solves only those tasks raised by history..." History has thrown us a monster. Different too are the forces working to shape this extraordinary historical moment. Much of that shaping by those who are in positions of political and economic, etc. authority?and the pandemic itself?are creating fear and despair, both for now and the future. At the same time, the shaping being done by so many thousands of people and organizations that inspire and organize people to exercise their power and creativity for connectedness are generating hope and possibility. I feel that palpably all day long. We in the global development community are re-tooling and/or stepping up our virtual activities, many of which involve play, performance and ensemble building, not to take people's minds off what's happening, but to involve them in some "non-knowing growing" and participation in creating positive responses to what's happening that have the possibility to continue to be transformative of individuals and communities. A few examples? establishing a Global Play Brigade working across borders of nation state, culture and economy (so far performance activists from about 40 countries involved) offering Creating Connection and Building Community free play sessions via Zoom, each one originating in a different part of the world (about 150 people per session so far) taking our Creating Our Mental Health conversation/workshop series national and international in a moment when people are realizing how they feel is not inside them, not merely socially produced and organized, but social in its potential transformativity taking All Stars Project programs for poor youth and their communities in NYC, NJ, Dallas, Chicago and the Bay Area virtual If you're interested in any of this and more, let me know. And you can always check out the social media listed in my signature. Stay safe, Lois -- Access my latest article?Why be Half-Human? How Play, Performance and Practical Philosophy Make Us Whole (written with Cathy Salit)?and read the rest of this marvelous book, Social Construction in Action, which you can download for free! Lois Holzman Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX Distinguished Visiting Fellow in Vygotskian Practice and Performance, Lloyd International Honors College at The University of North Carolina at Greensboro Address: East Side Institute, Attn:Lois Holzman 119 West 23 St, suite 902 New York, NY 10011 Telephone +1.212.941.8906 x324 Mobile 1-917-815-2664 lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org Social Media Facebook | LinkedIn| Twitter Blogs Psychology Today| Psychology of Becoming | Mad in America Websites Lois Holzman | East Side Institute | Performing the World All Stars Project -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200415/2160a8d9/attachment.html From mcole@ucsd.edu Wed Apr 15 10:15:28 2020 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2020 10:15:28 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Love in the time of corona In-Reply-To: References: <94006abc-9b52-66b2-03c9-76a1827d2288@ariadne.org.uk> Message-ID: Hi Wendy, Rob et al I am really glad to hear from people who have used zoom productively in their teaching. I have found all of Wendy's suggestions to be effective and would add two other suggestions. (NB - I am talking about college classes, not second grade and probably not until middle school until more power is added to the platforms. ) 1. Mix synchronous and synchronous. When you post materials to be read before a class, the annotation (commednt/question) function on zoom is a treasure trove of information about what students are interested in, confused about, reason with. 2, The chat function on zoom is like a twitter feed that can be productively used during a session and after, It creates a "whole class" feeling and can be used to guide the teaching/learning process in productive ways. mike 3, On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 5:01 AM Wendy Maples wrote: > As someone who worked in distance ed for over 20 years, the last 10 of > that in varying online environments, I can endorse what Rob (who I worked > with for over 10 of those years) says below. > > Though he doesn't use the term, much of what Rob describes is > project-based learning. It is remarkable what students can do 'together' > online, whether synchronously or asynchronously. I am not sure who was keen > to make the distinction (and the distinction is important), however, both > sync and async are valuable modes for teaching and learning (and some > intermingling of the two might possibly be best). > > Three things that I would add to Rob's description of good online learning > processes are: > > 1. The importance of having a 'get to know you' session -- which I > would argue, for synchronous learning environments, is essential. I have > experienced the value of this in both educational and business settings. > The 'get-to-know-you' should be clearly flagged as a chance to say hello in > a zero-risk setting. It should be short and involve an easy introduction, > 'If you can hear me, click on the hand-raise/yes/thumbs up button; if you > have used Zoom before, click on...; if you like cheese.... Then proceed to > a game, such as put a pin on a map, showing where they are; or share a > photo of a pet or houseplant; bring a 'tool' to your learning - an image, > a description, a motivational quote, etc. Then offer a chance to talk with > another student about hopes, motivations, etc. Which bring me to: > 2. Use break-out rooms (or small group set threads) so that very small > numbers of students (2-3) need to speak with each other on a particular > task. In the 'get-to-know-you', this might be as simple as 'What are your > hopes for this course?' or 'Agree on one question you'd like to ask the > tutor.' or 'What's a key concern/topic you hope the course will cover?', > etc. The break-out group then returns to the main session and relays what > they have come up with. > 3. In synchronous sessions, don't be afraid of what may feel like long > silences -- and don't be tempted to fill them! By all means check if your > question or prompt was clear, but -- as in f2f sessions -- don't be tempted > to answer yourself ?. Similarly, in asynchronous, if you are > confident the prompt/question/task and deadline for engaging is clear, > don't be tempted to jump in with a long string of your own postings. Offer > encouragement, of course and -- if you become convinced you've asked the > wrong Q or set the wrong task -- revise. > > I hope this is helpful! > W > > ------------------------------ > *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of robsub@ariadne.org.uk > *Sent:* 14 April 2020 17:47 > *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity ; Greg > Thompson > *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: Love in the time of corona > > For what it's worth here are a few thoughts on creating online activities. > I don't think there is a one size fits all answer because students (as well > as teachers!) come from all sorts of different cultures with all sorts of > different expectation about community. But I hope that some of my > suggestions will work broadly - my hope is based on my background, which is > in the competitive individualist west, where the biggest problem about > learning communities is getting out of students' heads the idea that any > kind of collaboration is tantamount to collusion and will be punished with > the utmost severity. (I find I have had to work at getting that out of a > lot of teachers' heads as well.) So basically, if it works on my students, > there is a good chance that it will work elsewhere. > > I don't think you should work at community directly. it is something best > sneaked up on in the course of other activity. But the other activity has > to be carefully and artfully constructed. That's one of many reasons why > you don't make an online course by chucking offine material on to the web. > > There are two aspects - being online and working together. Being online > will be a challenge for many students. A lifetime of texting, Snapchatting, > Tiktoking, and ordering your clothes, holidays and pizza over the internet > does not prepare people for using an online learning environment. So you > have to expect people to be clueless to start with. But you should act as > if this is an entirely natural environment right from the start. You need > to make it their assumption that they will be working together every week > if not more often. You need to make it their assumption that if they're > live online, they will see and hear each other. It's astonishing in some of > the courses I've seen how many students have microphones that don't work :-) > > So design your teaching and your assessment work to perhaps enforce, > certainly encourage, working together. The more they work together, the > more a sense of community will grow. In my environment, students follow the > marks, even the disengaged ones. if there are marks available for > collaborative activities, they will do them. They will do them with less or > more of a sense of engagement, but the hope is that as they get used to > them, students will recognise the intrinsic rewards as well as the > extrinsic ones. > > I don't know what your assessment strategy will be. The standard at the OU > is a series of assignments roughly once a month over a nine month course. > Each assignment should contain some kind of collaborative element. Even the > simplest will do - quote two substantial and meaningful posts you have > written in the online forum. There is plenty of room for interpretation of > "substantial and meaningful" but you get the idea. > > Then you work up to them working in teams to produce, say, an annotated > bibliography on a specific topic, or a powerpoint on something.And you can > assess the way they work together in a forum to produce this. Sounds > daunting - I've done it, works easier than you think. > > If you're working with them live, give them opportunities to work together > on exercises or issues. Even if there are only two of them, put them in a > breakout room together. Without you there, they have to talk to each other. > > Incorporate exercises like "how am I doing?" Get students to assess their > own progress against the learning outcomes of the course, and discuss with > each other. You could give them an exercise after working on it > individually, to come to a combined ranking of the two or three bits of the > course that they most need to revisit. (Which you obviously then revisit, > and get the students who think they're Ok on it to teach the others.) > > I have so much more to say. I could write a book, as you can tell. I'd be > very happy to give more detail, perhaps off-list. > > Final thought: people often compare ftf and online communities by > different standards. Ftf communities all have weaknesses and failings but > because they're familiar, we assume they're working. Because online > communities are new and unfamiliar, we tend to see all their faults and > weaknesses and judge them by standards that we don't apply to the ftf world. > > Rob > > > > On 13/04/2020 18:17, Greg Thompson wrote: > > Lois and others, > > Inspiring to see all that you and ESI are doing there in the midst of this > whirlwind - and in the eye of the storm no less! > > This comment of yours seemed to resonate with Liz' and Annalie's comments > about mental health: > "people are realizing how they feel is not inside them". > > That seems to me to be a revolutionary thought. > > Also, I'd ask this to you but don't want to distract you from your > important work, so perhaps others can talk about how activities can be > transformed in these times to adapt to this new era (I'd like to call it a > "moment" but it feels bigger than that). > > What got me thinking of this were the Zoom sessions that Lois mentioned on > Creating Connection and Building Community. The fact is that there will be > new possibilities to do these things (e.g., the possibility of truly GLOBAL > communities and connections - perhaps to Andy's world-perezhivanie), but > the activities that enable these things will also need to be transformed > and different. > > [I'm a bit of an idiot about these things so I'm just realizing that > online classes can't just be in-person activities that are taken online. > They need online activities that can build connection and community among > students. Still working on that.] > > So I'm wondering if anyone has had any success or even just suggestions > regarding how to create online activities that can realize the > possibilities and potential for connection and community in online spaces? > > [I'm thinking really practically/locally here in terms of what can be done > in my classes to build connection and community in online spaces, but the > answer will, of course, be relevant to forms of cross-national solidarity, > granting that there may be other challenges as well - e.g., language]. > > -greg > > > > On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 10:53 AM Lois Holzman < > lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org> wrote: > > Hello All, > > Following the lead of others, I'll jump in. While NYC and state are in > serious crisis and all its cultural and economic conflicts even more > glaring, the vibrancy and energy has not disappeared. It's just different. > > As Vygotsky is purported to have said, "A revolution solves only those > tasks raised by history..." History has thrown us a monster. > > Different too are the forces working to shape this extraordinary > historical moment. Much of that shaping by those who are in positions of > political and economic, etc. authority?and the pandemic itself?are creating > fear and despair, both for now and the future. At the same time, the > shaping being done by so many thousands of people and organizations that > inspire and organize people to exercise their power and creativity for > connectedness are generating hope and possibility. > I feel that palpably all day long. > > We in the global development community are re-tooling and/or stepping up > our virtual activities, many of which involve play, performance and > ensemble building, not to take people's minds off what's happening, but to > involve them in some "non-knowing growing" and participation in creating > positive responses to what's happening that have the possibility to > continue to be transformative of individuals and communities. A few > examples? > establishing a Global Play Brigade working across borders of > nation state, culture and economy (so far performance activists from about > 40 countries involved) > offering Creating Connection and Building Community > free > play sessions via Zoom, each one originating in a different part of the > world (about 150 people per session so far) > taking our Creating Our Mental Health conversation/workshop series > national and international in a moment when people are realizing how they > feel is not inside them, not merely socially produced and organized, but > social in its potential transformativity > taking All Stars Project programs for poor youth and their > communities in NYC, NJ, Dallas, Chicago and the Bay Area virtual > > If you're interested in any of this and more, let me know. And you can > always check out the social media listed in my signature. > > Stay safe, > Lois > > -- > *Access my latest article?**Why be Half-Human? How Play, Performance and > Practical Philosophy Make Us Whole **(written with Cathy Salit)?and read > the rest of this marvelous book, Social Construction in Action > , > which you can download for free!* > > > Lois Holzman > Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy > Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX > Distinguished Visiting Fellow in Vygotskian Practice and Performance, > Lloyd International Honors College at The University of North Carolina at > Greensboro > Address: East Side Institute, Attn:Lois Holzman > 119 West 23 St, suite 902 > New York, NY 10011 > Telephone +1.212.941.8906 x324 > Mobile 1-917-815-2664 > > lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org > Social Media > Facebook > | > LinkedIn > > | Twitter > > Blogs > Psychology Today > > | Psychology of Becoming > > | Mad in America > > Websites > Lois Holzman > > | East Side Institute > > | Performing the World > > All Stars Project > > > > > > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson > > > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > > > > -- Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a landslide. Roy D'Andrade --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200415/5ac91ca6/attachment.html From a.j.gil@ils.uio.no Wed Apr 15 13:23:08 2020 From: a.j.gil@ils.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2020 20:23:08 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Exploration survey: An Online international conference on Dialogic Pedagogy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for the initiative, very timely! I?ve been puzzled by and have had contradictory feelings about this tendency to postponing all conferences for later. On the one hand, I totally empathize with the move to give us time and space to deal with much urgent matters, from caring and educating children 24/7, to shifting all professional work online and in the after hours, to helping those in worse situations, to mourning the lives lost? On the other hand, however, is this not precisely the time that (at least some) conferences could take the chance and try open, inexpensive, environmentally friendly forms of participation that would give access to many at a time in which cultivating creativity and imagination is most precious? Good luck with your poll and initiative, Alfredo From: on behalf of Ana Marjanovic-Shane Reply to: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Date: Tuesday, 14 April 2020 at 18:09 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Cc: Eugene Matusov Subject: [Xmca-l] Exploration survey: An Online international conference on Dialogic Pedagogy Dear XMCA members, Greeting from Philadelphia! We are holding on in this pandemic as everyone else ? with trepidation about the pandemic and a great hope that the Coronavirus-19 will be soon reined in to become a manageable disease like the other ones that were conquered in the past. As the world is changing, and almost all of our professional conferences have been cancelled for this year, here at the Dialogic Pedagogy Journal (DPJ), we are exploring ways to hold a conferences at a distance, to keep open our dialogues and exchange thoughts on our research and teaching practices. The DPJ Organizational Committee would like to explore if there is enough interest in The Dialogic Pedagogy online conference among educational scholars and/or practitioners. So, we would like to ask you to fill out the following short survey: https://delaware.ca1.qualtrics.com/?/form/SV_bK1IudyShhLehFj Thanks, DP Online Conference Org Committee PS Feel free to pass this survey to your colleagues who might be interested. _________________________________________ Ana Marjanovic-Shane Deputy Editor-in-Chief, Dialogic Pedagogy Journal Independent Scholar +1-267-334-2905 anamshane@gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200415/24c49a63/attachment.html From julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk Wed Apr 15 14:25:47 2020 From: julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk (Julian Williams) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2020 21:25:47 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] FW: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News? Message-ID: Dear all, Kellyanne Conway ? I think I heard her name a while back ? what a Con, Ha ha? But perhaps not so very funny, right? God help us ? it all fits ? and now international pandemic and the next step is to defenestrate our only World Health Organisation? I can?t see anything short of a massive rebellion being an appropriate response? get those idiots out of the white house? Julian Subject: Fwd: Unbelievable White House counselor Kellyanne Conway falsely suggested Wednesday that there had been 18 previous strains of the novel coronavirus as she defended President Trump?s decision to suspend funding to the World Health Organization. "This is covid-19, not covid-1, folks, and so you would think the people charged with the World Health Organization facts and figures would be on top of that,? Conway said during an interview on Fox News. In fact, the ?19? at the end of the virus?s name denotes that it was discovered in 2019, not that it is the 19th strain of the virus. At its outset, it was referred to by health officials as the ?2019 novel coronavirus.? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200415/9a0cf3b8/attachment.html From anthonymbarra@gmail.com Wed Apr 15 15:30:38 2020 From: anthonymbarra@gmail.com (Anthony Barra) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2020 18:30:38 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: FW: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Julian. I'm imagine this board is a 'safe space' for you, but not everyone here is persuaded by your non-argument. As this is neither the time nor the forum, I will limit my remarks to these (and hopefully no one will spin this into a mindless, political back-and-forth). Thank you for your efforts ~ Anthony On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 5:27 PM Julian Williams < julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk> wrote: > Dear all, > > > > Kellyanne *Conwa*y ? I think I heard her name a while back ? what a Con, > Ha ha? > > > > But perhaps not so very funny, right? > > > > God help us ? it all fits ? and now international pandemic and the next > step is to defenestrate our only World Health Organisation? > > > > I can?t see anything short of a massive rebellion being an appropriate > response? get those idiots out of the white house? > > > > Julian > > > > > *Subject: *Fwd: Unbelievable > > > > White House counselor Kellyanne Conway falsely suggested Wednesday that > there had been 18 previous strains of the novel coronavirus as she defended > President Trump?s decision to suspend funding to the World Health > Organization. > > > > "This is covid-19, not covid-1, folks, and so you would think the people > charged with the World Health Organization facts and figures would be on > top of that,? Conway said during an interview on Fox News. > > > > In fact, the ?19? at the end of the virus?s name denotes that it was > discovered in 2019, not that it is the 19th strain of the virus. At its > outset, it was referred to by health officials as the ?2019 novel > coronavirus.? > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200415/41a6b98a/attachment.html From julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk Wed Apr 15 16:38:38 2020 From: julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk (Julian Williams) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2020 23:38:38 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: FW: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <999B98D0-7C94-44DD-BABA-7882164753F3@manchester.ac.uk> OK this is not the place or time. No argument there, just pointing out the absence of understanding in the White House ? probably costing many thousands of lives now ? and globally many more in the future, I don?t doubt. Stay safe and stay home wherever you are ? if we survive we might discuss further. Julian From: on behalf of Anthony Barra Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Date: Wednesday, 15 April 2020 at 23:33 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: FW: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News? Hello Julian. I'm imagine this board is a 'safe space' for you, but not everyone here is persuaded by your non-argument. As this is neither the time nor the forum, I will limit my remarks to these (and hopefully no one will spin this into a mindless, political back-and-forth). Thank you for your efforts ~ Anthony On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 5:27 PM Julian Williams > wrote: Dear all, Kellyanne Conway ? I think I heard her name a while back ? what a Con, Ha ha? But perhaps not so very funny, right? God help us ? it all fits ? and now international pandemic and the next step is to defenestrate our only World Health Organisation? I can?t see anything short of a massive rebellion being an appropriate response? get those idiots out of the white house? Julian Subject: Fwd: Unbelievable White House counselor Kellyanne Conway falsely suggested Wednesday that there had been 18 previous strains of the novel coronavirus as she defended President Trump?s decision to suspend funding to the World Health Organization. "This is covid-19, not covid-1, folks, and so you would think the people charged with the World Health Organization facts and figures would be on top of that,? Conway said during an interview on Fox News. In fact, the ?19? at the end of the virus?s name denotes that it was discovered in 2019, not that it is the 19th strain of the virus. At its outset, it was referred to by health officials as the ?2019 novel coronavirus.? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200415/d6b795b0/attachment.html From anthonymbarra@gmail.com Wed Apr 15 17:08:24 2020 From: anthonymbarra@gmail.com (Anthony Barra) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2020 20:08:24 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: FW: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News? In-Reply-To: <999B98D0-7C94-44DD-BABA-7882164753F3@manchester.ac.uk> References: <999B98D0-7C94-44DD-BABA-7882164753F3@manchester.ac.uk> Message-ID: Thank you. I am in New Jersey and intend to survive : ) On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 7:40 PM Julian Williams < julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk> wrote: > OK this is not the place or time. > > > > No argument there, just pointing out the absence of understanding in the > White House ? probably costing many thousands of lives now ? and globally > many more in the future, I don?t doubt. > > > > Stay safe and stay home wherever you are ? if we survive we might discuss > further. > > > > Julian > > > > *From: * on behalf of Anthony Barra < > anthonymbarra@gmail.com> > *Reply-To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > *Date: *Wednesday, 15 April 2020 at 23:33 > *To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: FW: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to > Fox News? > > > > Hello Julian. I'm imagine this board is a 'safe space' for you, but not > everyone here is persuaded by your non-argument. > > > > As this is neither the time nor the forum, I will limit my remarks to > these (and hopefully no one will spin this into a mindless, political > back-and-forth). > > > > Thank you for your efforts ~ > > > > Anthony > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 5:27 PM Julian Williams < > julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk> wrote: > > Dear all, > > > > Kellyanne *Conwa*y ? I think I heard her name a while back ? what a Con, > Ha ha? > > > > But perhaps not so very funny, right? > > > > God help us ? it all fits ? and now international pandemic and the next > step is to defenestrate our only World Health Organisation? > > > > I can?t see anything short of a massive rebellion being an appropriate > response? get those idiots out of the white house? > > > > Julian > > > > > *Subject: *Fwd: Unbelievable > > > > White House counselor Kellyanne Conway falsely suggested Wednesday that > there had been 18 previous strains of the novel coronavirus as she defended > President Trump?s decision to suspend funding to the World Health > Organization. > > > > "This is covid-19, not covid-1, folks, and so you would think the people > charged with the World Health Organization facts and figures would be on > top of that,? Conway said during an interview on Fox News. > > > > In fact, the ?19? at the end of the virus?s name denotes that it was > discovered in 2019, not that it is the 19th strain of the virus. At its > outset, it was referred to by health officials as the ?2019 novel > coronavirus.? > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200415/73a09bf5/attachment.html From greg.a.thompson@gmail.com Thu Apr 16 07:00:28 2020 From: greg.a.thompson@gmail.com (Greg Thompson) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2020 08:00:28 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: <50C2D0A2-BE61-4049-BBEE-D8317B9DCE62@uio.no> References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> <50C2D0A2-BE61-4049-BBEE-D8317B9DCE62@uio.no> Message-ID: Just wanted to point back to the collective document that Alfredo initiated that included responses to Latour's challenge and to share some of the answers (below) that our colleagues provided. Here is the link: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1s23bmSz-Su4hohICZE_il8ujuhecIt2PeRcSa_TeSjw/edit?usp=sharing And here are some of the initial responses to things that people would like to see changed (there are definitely some themes emerging - standardized testing, commuting (and travel) - but I wonder if others might want to offer some new and novel (more radical?) ideas about things that have been halted that we would like to see remain halted): Helena Worthen: Single person cars, to be replaced by electric bicycles for short trips, public transport for longer trips, with tearing up of acres of asphalt to be replaced by farms and parks. Diana Arya: (1) School-wide testing, which is a HUGE waste of time and pulls all attentional resources to score performance rather than authentic engagement in literacies. (2) Commutes for engaging in activities that can be done equally as well in virtual spaces. (3) Shopping for anything other than food (can mail back any item ordered online that doesn?t fit/work). Zaza: (1) the corporate emphasis on growth and development (in the form of ?Goals? or ?OKRs? or ?KPIs?) that really about seeing how much business you can generate not what you have learned or how you have grown or even how that growth will contribute to your work. Wendy: 1. ?Unnecessary? journeys in private vehicles; 2. Half-filled airplane flights, carrying people on ?cheap? (environmentally un-costed) journeys; 3. Long, test-filled school days GregT: Long commutes (maybe short ones too). Here in Utah, the air is cleaner than its ever been in the Winter when we usually suffer from ?inversions? where the polluted air is trapped in the valleys by the surrounding mountains. On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 2:40 PM Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > Thanks Anne-Nelly. I haven?t yet answered myself, haven?t got the time to > sit back and reflect yet (for some, the isolation is slowing down, for > others it means frenetic activity all the time?). Will do my best to find > the time by the end of the week though. > > > > And I wanted to say that anyone in this list may insert answers without > necessarily having to write their (real) name. Anything to mark that there > is a new entry should suffice. I am thinking of anyone who might want to > contribute but who for one or another reason may prefer to stay anonymous. > > > > > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1s23bmSz-Su4hohICZE_il8ujuhecIt2PeRcSa_TeSjw/edit?usp=sharing > > > > Best, > > Alfredo > > > > *From: * on behalf of PERRET-CLERMONT > Anne-Nelly > *Reply to: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > *Date: *Tuesday, 14 April 2020 at 22:31 > *To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? > > > > Thanks Alfredo. > > I have already tried to answer this questionnaire several times. I observe > changes in my answers? due to social interactions, growing sensibility, > experience of the changes induced by covid19? > > Yours, > > Anne-Nelly > > > > Prof. em. Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont > > Institut de psychologie et ?ducation Facult? des lettres et sciences > humaines > > Universit? de Neuch?tel > > Espace Tilo-Frey 1 (Anciennement: Espace Louis-Agassiz 1) > > CH- 2000 Neuch?tel (Suisse) > > http://www.unine.ch/ipe/publications/anne_nelly_perret_clermont > > > > > > *De : * on behalf of Alfredo Jornet Gil < > a.j.gil@ils.uio.no> > *R?pondre ? : *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > > *Date : *samedi, 11 avril 2020 ? 22:47 > *? : *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" , > Kloetzer Laure priv? > *Objet : *[Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? > > > > One way could be compiling them in a google docs. Each question could be > written as a heading, and under each heading, each participat writes name > in Bold and then answer in body type. Would this work and would people be > willing to fill in? If yes, here is a Google doc anyone could fill in: > > > > > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1s23bmSz-Su4hohICZE_il8ujuhecIt2PeRcSa_TeSjw/edit?usp=sharing > > > > > > Alfredo > > > > *From: * on behalf of Helena Worthen < > helenaworthen@gmail.com> > *Reply to: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > *Date: *Saturday, 11 April 2020 at 22:37 > *To: *"laure.kloetzer@gmail.com" , "eXtended > Mind, Culture, Activity" > *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? > > > > Hi, Laure ? It looks as if each group to which this is disseminated has to > collect its own results and share them among themselves. I wish we could > compile results across xmca at least to see which are the two activities > chosen by this widespread community. > > > > H > > > > Helena Worthen > > helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 11, 2020, at 12:48 PM, Laure Kloetzer > wrote: > > > > Good evening, > > > > In Neuch?tel, we sent an adapted version of the Latour questionnaire to > our students for gathering their own reflections, with the goal to discuss > them altogether after all this. > > Take care, > > Laure Kloetzer > > > > > > Le sam. 11 avr. 2020 ? 21:46, Helena Worthen a > ?crit : > > The Latour exercise that Anne-Nelly provides is really provocative!!! I > did it; it takes 10-15 minutes and helped me clarify my thinking. > > > > Thank you. Here?s the link again: > > > > http://www.bruno-latour.fr/node/852.html > > > > > > Helena Worthen > > helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 10, 2020, at 8:48 PM, mike cole wrote: > > > > Hi Anna-Lisa. What you describe has great similarities what people in the > US are experiencing with the exception that it is now clear for all to see > that it is poverty, or the security of the vulnerable (same thing in my > view). > > > > Thanks very much for the Latium letter. It is totally relevant right now. > > > > Mike > > > > On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 9:38 AM PERRET-CLERMONT Anne-Nelly < > Anne-Nelly.Perret-Clermont@unine.ch> wrote: > > Hello everybody! > > > > Thank you so much for all the news and perspectives that are being shared > from all over the Planet. Such difficult times, especially for those who > can?t even send news... > > > > Some news from Switzerland, a privileged country, yet with very serious > contamination rates. Almost 4 weeks of confinement (rights to go out are > very limited and only a limited number of professions are still working) > that totally re-organize our private and public life. > > > > The sun is shining wonderfully and it is very tempting to move out for > this Easter holiday. Nevertheless, most people are very disciplined and > stay home in confinement. > > It took a lot of time for the local, cantonal and federal authorities to > decide on the confinement measures. Switzerland?s political traditions > impose bottom-up decisions. But the result of this (too slow?) process > seems to be that most people agree and comply with this policy. Police > forces try to do education and not repression. But the peak of the tide of > contamination has not been reached yet and hospitals are under stress. > > > > The economic stress due to this long shut down arises a lot of fear on the > side of trade unions and employers associations. Switzerland has very large > multinational companies, but 90% of its firms are small or medium size > business. Quite a number of them are now reaching the edge of bankruptcy. > If they should go bankrup,t this would totally disorganise the country, its > daily style of life and more: small firms and their locations impact > regional demography, resources, power (in a federation of cantons), etc. > after compulsory education, 60% of the young people attend dual education > (i.e. half time in firms and half-time in school) and if firms shut down > this education will fall apart. Government, banks and networks of citizens > are lending money and trying to maintain these small firms alive. > Unemployment rate is raising but rents have to be paid. Etc? > > > > Switzerland is a country of pharmaceutical industry and engineers. But the > panic in the hospitals is not over: equipment is insufficient, and drugs > are starting to miss. Local enterprises have the know how to make them but > ?with ingredients that come exclusively from China and India. Hospitals > have been afraid of losing 25% to 40% of their staff as nurses often come > from the bordering regions of France and Italy. Finally, these countries > have locked their borders but not for those professionals. This does not > solve the problem on the long term, of course as these countries also need > more medical staff. We hope that a growing awareness of the importance (and > respect and salary) due to these professions will finally have the > necessary impact. At 9 p.m., everybody goes at the window or balcony to > give them a clap (or ring bells or even play music) for a minute to thank > all the medical staff and other professions (e.g., cleaners) who likewise > take enormous risks and make great efforts. > > > > The number of beds in the hospitals has been seriously increased by > creative means. The ultraliberal policy of the last decade had seriously > cut down the number of beds in hospital and sent many many patients to > private practice and ambulatory treatment. But the government, when > declaring confinement, has also declared that medical practitioners should > only do online treatment and should close their practice. Result: 3 weeks > later medical authorities are very worried: many patients in serious > conditions or with severe chronic diseases don?t dare to call their medical > practitioner and are afraid to go to the emergency services in hospital > (fear of overloading them, fear of infection by Covid and fear of being cut > out from their families (not allowed in the hospital). The pronostic is a > possible wave of very serious cases needing urgent and heavy treatment. > This wave will put extra-pressure on the sanitary system already > overburden. Meanwhile small medical units are close to bankruptcy : their > have to pay the salaries of their staff but have no income to do so. > > > > There is also a (still small) growing concern among social scientists that > the teams that reflect on the pandemic and the confinement measures (and > the planning of the end of the confinement) are made up of exclusively of > epidemiologists and economists (with one or two specialists in ethics). > Hence the psychic and social problems of the confined population are > probably underestimated. > > Little is known of the underprivileged part of the population, now > unemployed, in small housing, with little outreach. Schooling has gone > online in a fortnight (with absolutely no preparation) but many students > don?t have connections or share the unique computer of the household with > parents and siblings all supposedly on line. > > > > This is only a few elements that characterise the situation. In parallel, > many citizens are becoming increasingly aware of the dangers of the total > interdependence of the economy and of the ecological disasters that this > creates. Sanitary disasters and ecological disasters are much more > interrelated than expected (a very nice book to understand that biological > processes and ways of life social life are interdependent: Rob Dunn *"Never > home alone. **From Microbes to Millipedes, Camel Crickets, and Honeybees, > the Natural History of Where We Live"*). > > > > There are also plenty of many nice examples of solidarity, creativity, > etc. They need to converge and be made visible. > > > > We (MAPS in University of Neuch?tel) are engaging in a large inquiry > based on Bruno Latour?s call (March 29, 2020): "A little exercise to make > sure that, after the virus crisis, things don?t start again as they were > before" (see http://www.bruno-latour.fr/node/852.html with already > versions in English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Polish, German, Dutch). > > > > Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont > > > > Prof. em. Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont > > Institut de psychologie et ?ducation Facult? des lettres et sciences > humaines > > Universit? de Neuch?tel > > Espace Tilo-Frey 1 > > (Anciennement: Espace Louis-Agassiz 1) > > > CH- 2000 Neuch?tel (Suisse > > ) > > http://www.unine.ch/ipe/publications/anne_nelly_perret_clermont > > > > Last publications: > > Perret-Clermont, A.-N., Sch?r, R., Greco, S., Convertini, J., Iannaccone, > A., & Rocci, A. (2019). Shifting from a monological to a dialogical > perspective on children?s argumentation. Lessons learned. In F. H. van > Eemren & B. Garssen (Eds.), *Argumentation in actual practice. Topical > studies about argumentative discourse in context* (pp. 211-236): John > Benjamins Publishing Company. *Version ?lectronique > *Iannaccone, A., Perret-Clermont, > A.-N., & Convertini, J. (2019). Children as investigators of Brunerian > ?Possible worlds?. The role of narrative scenarios in children?s > argumentative thinking. . Integrative Psychological and Behiavioral > Science, 53, 679-693. *Version ?lectronique > * > > Perret-Clermont, A.-N., Perret, J.-F., Pochon, L.-O., & Marro, P. (2019). > Hommage ? Jacques Perriault. Hermes, La Revue, 3, 226-226. > > In J.-P. Fragni?re (Ed.), Agir et penser avec Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont > (pp. 71-107). Lausanne: Editions Socialinfo > https://www.socialinfo.ch/les-livres/38-agir-et-penser-avec-anne-nelly-perret-clermont.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a > landslide. Roy D'Andrade > > --------------------------------------------------- > > For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other > members of LCHC, visit > > lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the > research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. > > > > > > > > > -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200416/90899069/attachment.html From boblake@georgiasouthern.edu Thu Apr 16 07:45:54 2020 From: boblake@georgiasouthern.edu (Robert Lake) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2020 10:45:54 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> <50C2D0A2-BE61-4049-BBEE-D8317B9DCE62@uio.no> Message-ID: Greetings from South Georgia USA everyone! I will get right to the point in response to what we would like to see changed and replaced. The harvesting of trees for paper products and the use of alternative plant based sources such as elephant grass and kenaf. Wouldn't it be amazing to see these planted alongside all of the highways and homes as a literal "grassroots" movement reminiscent of Gandhi's spinning wheels and cotton? Thank-you Helena, Alfredo, Greg and everyone for checking in on us and for inspiring us to "go meta" as Jerome Bruner used to call it. Courage! *Robert Lake* References Borges Gomes, F. J., Colodette, J. L., Burnet, A., Ribas Batalha, L. A., and Barbosa, B. M. (2013). "Potential of elephant grass for pulp production," *BioRes*. 8(3), 4359-4379. On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 10:04 AM Greg Thompson wrote: > Just wanted to point back to the collective document that Alfredo > initiated that included responses to Latour's challenge and to share some > of the answers (below) that our colleagues provided. Here is the link: > > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1s23bmSz-Su4hohICZE_il8ujuhecIt2PeRcSa_TeSjw/edit?usp=sharing > > And here are some of the initial responses to things that people would > like to see changed (there are definitely some themes emerging - > standardized testing, commuting (and travel) - but I wonder if others might > want to offer some new and novel (more radical?) ideas about things that > have been halted that we would like to see remain halted): > > Helena Worthen: Single person cars, to be replaced by electric bicycles > for short trips, public transport for longer trips, with tearing up of > acres of asphalt to be replaced by farms and parks. > > Diana Arya: (1) School-wide testing, which is a HUGE waste of time and > pulls all attentional resources to score performance rather than authentic > engagement in literacies. (2) Commutes for engaging in activities that can > be done equally as well in virtual spaces. (3) Shopping for anything other > than food (can mail back any item ordered online that doesn?t fit/work). > > Zaza: (1) the corporate emphasis on growth and development (in the form of > ?Goals? or ?OKRs? or ?KPIs?) that really about seeing how much business you > can generate not what you have learned or how you have grown or even how > that growth will contribute to your work. > > Wendy: 1. ?Unnecessary? journeys in private vehicles; 2. Half-filled > airplane flights, carrying people on ?cheap? (environmentally un-costed) > journeys; 3. Long, test-filled school days > > GregT: Long commutes (maybe short ones too). Here in Utah, the air is > cleaner than its ever been in the Winter when we usually suffer from > ?inversions? where the polluted air is trapped in the valleys by the > surrounding mountains. > > On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 2:40 PM Alfredo Jornet Gil > wrote: > >> Thanks Anne-Nelly. I haven?t yet answered myself, haven?t got the time to >> sit back and reflect yet (for some, the isolation is slowing down, for >> others it means frenetic activity all the time?). Will do my best to find >> the time by the end of the week though. >> >> >> >> And I wanted to say that anyone in this list may insert answers without >> necessarily having to write their (real) name. Anything to mark that there >> is a new entry should suffice. I am thinking of anyone who might want to >> contribute but who for one or another reason may prefer to stay anonymous. >> >> >> >> >> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1s23bmSz-Su4hohICZE_il8ujuhecIt2PeRcSa_TeSjw/edit?usp=sharing >> >> >> >> Best, >> >> Alfredo >> >> >> >> *From: * on behalf of PERRET-CLERMONT >> Anne-Nelly >> *Reply to: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" >> *Date: *Tuesday, 14 April 2020 at 22:31 >> *To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" >> *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? >> >> >> >> Thanks Alfredo. >> >> I have already tried to answer this questionnaire several times. I >> observe changes in my answers? due to social interactions, growing >> sensibility, experience of the changes induced by covid19? >> >> Yours, >> >> Anne-Nelly >> >> >> >> Prof. em. Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont >> >> Institut de psychologie et ?ducation Facult? des lettres et sciences >> humaines >> >> Universit? de Neuch?tel >> >> Espace Tilo-Frey 1 (Anciennement: Espace Louis-Agassiz 1) >> >> CH- 2000 Neuch?tel (Suisse) >> >> http://www.unine.ch/ipe/publications/anne_nelly_perret_clermont >> >> >> >> >> >> *De : * on behalf of Alfredo Jornet Gil >> >> *R?pondre ? : *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" < >> xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu> >> *Date : *samedi, 11 avril 2020 ? 22:47 >> *? : *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" , >> Kloetzer Laure priv? >> *Objet : *[Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? >> >> >> >> One way could be compiling them in a google docs. Each question could be >> written as a heading, and under each heading, each participat writes name >> in Bold and then answer in body type. Would this work and would people be >> willing to fill in? If yes, here is a Google doc anyone could fill in: >> >> >> >> >> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1s23bmSz-Su4hohICZE_il8ujuhecIt2PeRcSa_TeSjw/edit?usp=sharing >> >> >> >> >> >> Alfredo >> >> >> >> *From: * on behalf of Helena Worthen < >> helenaworthen@gmail.com> >> *Reply to: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" >> *Date: *Saturday, 11 April 2020 at 22:37 >> *To: *"laure.kloetzer@gmail.com" , "eXtended >> Mind, Culture, Activity" >> *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? >> >> >> >> Hi, Laure ? It looks as if each group to which this is disseminated has >> to collect its own results and share them among themselves. I wish we >> could compile results across xmca at least to see which are the two >> activities chosen by this widespread community. >> >> >> >> H >> >> >> >> Helena Worthen >> >> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Apr 11, 2020, at 12:48 PM, Laure Kloetzer >> wrote: >> >> >> >> Good evening, >> >> >> >> In Neuch?tel, we sent an adapted version of the Latour questionnaire to >> our students for gathering their own reflections, with the goal to discuss >> them altogether after all this. >> >> Take care, >> >> Laure Kloetzer >> >> >> >> >> >> Le sam. 11 avr. 2020 ? 21:46, Helena Worthen a >> ?crit : >> >> The Latour exercise that Anne-Nelly provides is really provocative!!! I >> did it; it takes 10-15 minutes and helped me clarify my thinking. >> >> >> >> Thank you. Here?s the link again: >> >> >> >> http://www.bruno-latour.fr/node/852.html >> >> >> >> >> >> Helena Worthen >> >> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Apr 10, 2020, at 8:48 PM, mike cole wrote: >> >> >> >> Hi Anna-Lisa. What you describe has great similarities what people in the >> US are experiencing with the exception that it is now clear for all to see >> that it is poverty, or the security of the vulnerable (same thing in my >> view). >> >> >> >> Thanks very much for the Latium letter. It is totally relevant right now. >> >> >> >> Mike >> >> >> >> On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 9:38 AM PERRET-CLERMONT Anne-Nelly < >> Anne-Nelly.Perret-Clermont@unine.ch> wrote: >> >> Hello everybody! >> >> >> >> Thank you so much for all the news and perspectives that are being shared >> from all over the Planet. Such difficult times, especially for those who >> can?t even send news... >> >> >> >> Some news from Switzerland, a privileged country, yet with very serious >> contamination rates. Almost 4 weeks of confinement (rights to go out are >> very limited and only a limited number of professions are still working) >> that totally re-organize our private and public life. >> >> >> >> The sun is shining wonderfully and it is very tempting to move out for >> this Easter holiday. Nevertheless, most people are very disciplined and >> stay home in confinement. >> >> It took a lot of time for the local, cantonal and federal authorities to >> decide on the confinement measures. Switzerland?s political traditions >> impose bottom-up decisions. But the result of this (too slow?) process >> seems to be that most people agree and comply with this policy. Police >> forces try to do education and not repression. But the peak of the tide of >> contamination has not been reached yet and hospitals are under stress. >> >> >> >> The economic stress due to this long shut down arises a lot of fear on >> the side of trade unions and employers associations. Switzerland has very >> large multinational companies, but 90% of its firms are small or medium >> size business. Quite a number of them are now reaching the edge of >> bankruptcy. If they should go bankrup,t this would totally disorganise the >> country, its daily style of life and more: small firms and their locations >> impact regional demography, resources, power (in a federation of cantons), >> etc. after compulsory education, 60% of the young people attend dual >> education (i.e. half time in firms and half-time in school) and if firms >> shut down this education will fall apart. Government, banks and networks of >> citizens are lending money and trying to maintain these small firms alive. >> Unemployment rate is raising but rents have to be paid. Etc? >> >> >> >> Switzerland is a country of pharmaceutical industry and engineers. But >> the panic in the hospitals is not over: equipment is insufficient, and >> drugs are starting to miss. Local enterprises have the know how to make >> them but ?with ingredients that come exclusively from China and India. >> Hospitals have been afraid of losing 25% to 40% of their staff as nurses >> often come from the bordering regions of France and Italy. Finally, these >> countries have locked their borders but not for those professionals. This >> does not solve the problem on the long term, of course as these countries >> also need more medical staff. We hope that a growing awareness of the >> importance (and respect and salary) due to these professions will finally >> have the necessary impact. At 9 p.m., everybody goes at the window or >> balcony to give them a clap (or ring bells or even play music) for a minute >> to thank all the medical staff and other professions (e.g., cleaners) who >> likewise take enormous risks and make great efforts. >> >> >> >> The number of beds in the hospitals has been seriously increased by >> creative means. The ultraliberal policy of the last decade had seriously >> cut down the number of beds in hospital and sent many many patients to >> private practice and ambulatory treatment. But the government, when >> declaring confinement, has also declared that medical practitioners should >> only do online treatment and should close their practice. Result: 3 weeks >> later medical authorities are very worried: many patients in serious >> conditions or with severe chronic diseases don?t dare to call their medical >> practitioner and are afraid to go to the emergency services in hospital >> (fear of overloading them, fear of infection by Covid and fear of being cut >> out from their families (not allowed in the hospital). The pronostic is a >> possible wave of very serious cases needing urgent and heavy treatment. >> This wave will put extra-pressure on the sanitary system already >> overburden. Meanwhile small medical units are close to bankruptcy : their >> have to pay the salaries of their staff but have no income to do so. >> >> >> >> There is also a (still small) growing concern among social scientists >> that the teams that reflect on the pandemic and the confinement measures >> (and the planning of the end of the confinement) are made up of exclusively >> of epidemiologists and economists (with one or two specialists in ethics). >> Hence the psychic and social problems of the confined population are >> probably underestimated. >> >> Little is known of the underprivileged part of the population, now >> unemployed, in small housing, with little outreach. Schooling has gone >> online in a fortnight (with absolutely no preparation) but many students >> don?t have connections or share the unique computer of the household with >> parents and siblings all supposedly on line. >> >> >> >> This is only a few elements that characterise the situation. In parallel, >> many citizens are becoming increasingly aware of the dangers of the total >> interdependence of the economy and of the ecological disasters that this >> creates. Sanitary disasters and ecological disasters are much more >> interrelated than expected (a very nice book to understand that biological >> processes and ways of life social life are interdependent: Rob Dunn *"Never >> home alone. **From Microbes to Millipedes, Camel Crickets, and >> Honeybees, the Natural History of Where We Live"*). >> >> >> >> There are also plenty of many nice examples of solidarity, creativity, >> etc. They need to converge and be made visible. >> >> >> >> We (MAPS in University of Neuch?tel) are engaging in a large inquiry >> based on Bruno Latour?s call (March 29, 2020): "A little exercise to >> make sure that, after the virus crisis, things don?t start again as they >> were before" (see http://www.bruno-latour.fr/node/852.html with already >> versions in English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Polish, German, Dutch). >> >> >> >> Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont >> >> >> >> Prof. em. Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont >> >> Institut de psychologie et ?ducation Facult? des lettres et sciences >> humaines >> >> Universit? de Neuch?tel >> >> Espace Tilo-Frey 1 >> >> (Anciennement: Espace Louis-Agassiz 1) >> >> >> CH- 2000 Neuch?tel (Suisse >> >> ) >> >> http://www.unine.ch/ipe/publications/anne_nelly_perret_clermont >> >> >> >> Last publications: >> >> Perret-Clermont, A.-N., Sch?r, R., Greco, S., Convertini, J., Iannaccone, >> A., & Rocci, A. (2019). Shifting from a monological to a dialogical >> perspective on children?s argumentation. Lessons learned. In F. H. van >> Eemren & B. Garssen (Eds.), *Argumentation in actual practice. Topical >> studies about argumentative discourse in context* (pp. 211-236): John >> Benjamins Publishing Company. *Version ?lectronique >> *Iannaccone, A., Perret-Clermont, >> A.-N., & Convertini, J. (2019). Children as investigators of Brunerian >> ?Possible worlds?. The role of narrative scenarios in children?s >> argumentative thinking. . Integrative Psychological and Behiavioral >> Science, 53, 679-693. *Version ?lectronique >> * >> >> Perret-Clermont, A.-N., Perret, J.-F., Pochon, L.-O., & Marro, P. (2019). >> Hommage ? Jacques Perriault. Hermes, La Revue, 3, 226-226. >> >> In J.-P. Fragni?re (Ed.), Agir et penser avec Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont >> (pp. 71-107). Lausanne: Editions Socialinfo >> https://www.socialinfo.ch/les-livres/38-agir-et-penser-avec-anne-nelly-perret-clermont.html >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a >> landslide. Roy D'Andrade >> >> --------------------------------------------------- >> >> For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other >> members of LCHC, visit >> >> lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the >> research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200416/aaaf9895/attachment.html From mcole@ucsd.edu Thu Apr 16 10:33:12 2020 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2020 10:33:12 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: FW: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: There is absolutely nothing funny about the crypto fascists running this government, Julian. Trump is pushing towar monarchy in a fashion that might be funny if it were a Gilbert and Sullivan musical. mike On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 2:27 PM Julian Williams < julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk> wrote: > Dear all, > > > > Kellyanne *Conwa*y ? I think I heard her name a while back ? what a Con, > Ha ha? > > > > But perhaps not so very funny, right? > > > > God help us ? it all fits ? and now international pandemic and the next > step is to defenestrate our only World Health Organisation? > > > > I can?t see anything short of a massive rebellion being an appropriate > response? get those idiots out of the white house? > > > > Julian > > > > > *Subject: *Fwd: Unbelievable > > > > White House counselor Kellyanne Conway falsely suggested Wednesday that > there had been 18 previous strains of the novel coronavirus as she defended > President Trump?s decision to suspend funding to the World Health > Organization. > > > > "This is covid-19, not covid-1, folks, and so you would think the people > charged with the World Health Organization facts and figures would be on > top of that,? Conway said during an interview on Fox News. > > > > In fact, the ?19? at the end of the virus?s name denotes that it was > discovered in 2019, not that it is the 19th strain of the virus. At its > outset, it was referred to by health officials as the ?2019 novel > coronavirus.? > > > > > > > -- the creation of utopias ? and their exhaustive criticism ? is the proper and distinctive method of sociology. H.G.Wells --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200416/8c867821/attachment.html From julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk Thu Apr 16 11:14:23 2020 From: julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk (Julian Williams) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2020 18:14:23 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: FW: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <67D4C8C6-80FE-4A0B-9D32-34AE80FFF490@manchester.ac.uk> Mike, hi Surely not funny, of course. And we should have an even greater concern about India, where 1.4billion people are supposedly ?shut down? ( actually, many millions are walking hundreds of miles ?home? from the cities to their villages, wearing masks, but .. ), and nationalist, anti-Muslim extremism - rampant before the crisis ? is growing: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.democracynow.org/2020/4/16/arundhati_roy_coronavirus_india?utm_source=Democracy*Now*21&utm_campaign=5b85440b98-Daily_Digest_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_fa2346a853-5b85440b98-192514813__;KyU!!Mih3wA!UAMlfob2n_Lh-WqpyVZk7kkIB6_iTHxnCHcoi9KlYa0gsgp20bbtBYAvZg22fqto0zXcVg$ We can anticipate at least 40 million deaths in India if this gets going - and the fascists are planning to emerge dominant from this ? all encouraged by your big man in the WH. These deaths will perhaps make the holocaust seem like small fry ? will we ever see trials for crimes against humanity? Perhaps not, because it will be difficult to pin these deaths on to intentional action, but maybe there should be a crime for intentional inaction? The abject state of public health systems (long term) and the incompetence and political management (short term) being the main charges. Then in the US we can see some analyses of the way the deaths are hugely discriminatory against black/ethnic minorities and the poor: ?More than 70 per cent of COVID-19 deaths in the state of Louisiana were African-Americans, despite accounting for just a third of the general population. In New York City it's 17 per cent of deaths, for a 9 per cent share of residents.?https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-16/drum-covid-african-american-affected/12153268__;!!Mih3wA!UAMlfob2n_Lh-WqpyVZk7kkIB6_iTHxnCHcoi9KlYa0gsgp20bbtBYAvZg22fqs1xrPL7g$ Globally translated ? this will become a terrible indictment of the world?s structure of poverty: I had to pause the other day ? is this kind of admittedly political posting appropriate to xmca listserve?s concerns: I think that?s a question for xmca ? ?are we/is xmca relevant to the millions of deaths likely as the pandemic spreads to the poor nations?? The question is moot ? only you people out there can say, or do by saying. Julian PS It?s good that in some parts of the world this information is still getting out. The middle east, and Africa, in many parts, maybe is more difficult. From: on behalf of mike cole Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Date: Thursday, 16 April 2020 at 18:36 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: FW: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News? There is absolutely nothing funny about the crypto fascists running this government, Julian. Trump is pushing towar monarchy in a fashion that might be funny if it were a Gilbert and Sullivan musical. mike On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 2:27 PM Julian Williams > wrote: Dear all, Kellyanne Conway ? I think I heard her name a while back ? what a Con, Ha ha? But perhaps not so very funny, right? God help us ? it all fits ? and now international pandemic and the next step is to defenestrate our only World Health Organisation? I can?t see anything short of a massive rebellion being an appropriate response? get those idiots out of the white house? Julian Subject: Fwd: Unbelievable White House counselor Kellyanne Conway falsely suggested Wednesday that there had been 18 previous strains of the novel coronavirus as she defended President Trump?s decision to suspend funding to the World Health Organization. "This is covid-19, not covid-1, folks, and so you would think the people charged with the World Health Organization facts and figures would be on top of that,? Conway said during an interview on Fox News. In fact, the ?19? at the end of the virus?s name denotes that it was discovered in 2019, not that it is the 19th strain of the virus. At its outset, it was referred to by health officials as the ?2019 novel coronavirus.? -- the creation of utopias ? and their exhaustive criticism ? is the proper and distinctive method of sociology. H.G.Wells --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200416/80788680/attachment.html From mpacker@cantab.net Thu Apr 16 13:25:43 2020 From: mpacker@cantab.net (Martin Packer) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2020 15:25:43 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: FW: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7486B82B-A231-4AF4-A5D8-59858820AA14@cantab.net> A good summary here of the issues?. https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://science.sciencemag.org/content/368/6488/214__;!!Mih3wA!QG8Cxxg95wIMP_QY17lGf9VG6qtWbURtANI9MZLeGUltNu3tqdOI5weM_D1_CwEKGV8aaA$ The moment to see the poor Joachim von Braun1 ? , Stefano Zamagni2 ? , Marcelo S?nchez Sorondo3 ? See all authors and affiliations Science 17 Apr 2020: Vol. 368, Issue 6488, pp. 214 DOI: 10.1126/science.abc2255 The coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic has illuminated inequities that have put poor people?in both low-income nations and in rich countries?at the greatest risk of suffering. Pope Francis recently pointed to that in an interview: ?This is the moment to see the poor.? Martin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200416/3b7c7c23/attachment.html From dkellogg60@gmail.com Thu Apr 16 13:35:26 2020 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 05:35:26 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Covid 19: Getting the Name Right Message-ID: I won't pretend to you that this is on my night table. Someone recently sent me the following quote from Hegel: ?For although it is commonly said that reasonable men pay attention not to the word but to the thing itself, yet this does not give us permission to describe a thing in terms inappropriate to it. For this is at once incompetence and deceit, to fancy and to pretend that one merely has not the right *word*, and to hide from oneself that really one has failed to get hold of the thing itself, i.e. the Notion. If one had the Notion, then one would also have the right word.? (p.198) ? sec. 329 Vygotsky liked to quote Tolstoy: ????? ????? ?????? ??????, ????? ?????? ??????? (the word is nearly (!) always read when the concept is ready) but it seems to me that in this case he would have stressed the word "nearly". There was a long debate over what to call Covid 19 at the WHO, and many people (including Michael Lin at Stanford) opine that they got it wrong. I think that they got it right, but that it took a while. I don't think it is non-argument to point out that repeated attempts to change the name to "Chinese virus" or the nineteenth iteration of Covid or whatever are also motivated and not in a good way. More importantly (because as Hegel says mere incompetence and transparent self-deceit are at stake in this instance) I think in most societies naming is a process--a child has different names at different times of life, and LSV is probaby wrong to treat naming as a single function of speech that is simply replaced by signifying and does not itself develop. What disturbs me about the Hegel quote (and LSV's obvious enthusiasm for it) is that it seems to suggest that everything has, in the final analysis, only one correct name. But perhaps it all depends on that final analysis. David Kellogg Sangmyung University Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of *Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational action research' in Mind Culture and Activity* https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847__;!!Mih3wA!RxSyHRy22kiqZQHwsKuP3HGFuU9O2uo9DyVwSIIsNFfE0O3RpibgknJS735vbN8JpRvTyw$ Some free e-prints available at: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080*10749039.2020.1745847__;Lw!!Mih3wA!RxSyHRy22kiqZQHwsKuP3HGFuU9O2uo9DyVwSIIsNFfE0O3RpibgknJS735vbN8Ro16M0A$ New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!RxSyHRy22kiqZQHwsKuP3HGFuU9O2uo9DyVwSIIsNFfE0O3RpibgknJS735vbN-3hPm_Zw$ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200417/4bd04d26/attachment.html From greg.a.thompson@gmail.com Thu Apr 16 14:46:07 2020 From: greg.a.thompson@gmail.com (Greg Thompson) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2020 15:46:07 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: FW: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: One local cultural-historical question, perhaps relevant to this list serve, is Raised by the fact that in the US there are large numbers of people who are complicit with Trump's tyranny. And it seems that there is no reasoning with them; anything other than what Trump says is presumed to be #fakenews (and, of course, there are enough examples of bad reporting and biased coverage (#bernie) that make these claims at least partly credible). Add to that the fact that we live in media cocoons where we consume only that which is pleasing to us and I think we have the basis for something like a Civil War here in the U.S. (too dramatic?). I'd love to hear advice/counsel from folks who have lived through this kind of thing in the past. How do these things get resolved? what kinds of actions are needed/essential? (I heard one historian say that, historically speaking, it takes about 5-6 years before the magic of political charlatans begins to wear off - he predicted that with Trump, the reaction will be violent - although this would of course put that violent revival a year or so into Trump's second term). It seems like this list serve could be a great resource for thinking big about this historical moment in ways that get beyond just calling people names (And not to downplay the value of name-calling, it is a very common way of establishing in-group solidarity, but I get plenty of that on Facebook - in fact that's about all I get on Facebook and it seems to have had little, perhaps even a negative impact since it has emboldened Trumpistas even more to point out how intolerant and ignorant liberals are! (and to be sure, Trumpistas are a whiny lot!)). Anyway, I love CHAT?s long view of thinking about social historical processes across the long Duree and how our present moment fits into this so that we can try to answer the question: What is to be done? (Isn?t that about what Marx was up to?). But maybe that is too big a project for a listserve? perhaps the best we could do is to take a look back at Marx? -greg On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 11:36 AM mike cole wrote: > There is absolutely nothing funny about the crypto fascists running this > government, Julian. > Trump is pushing towar monarchy in a fashion that might be funny if it > were a Gilbert and Sullivan > musical. > mike > > On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 2:27 PM Julian Williams < > julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk> wrote: > >> Dear all, >> >> >> >> Kellyanne *Conwa*y ? I think I heard her name a while back ? what a Con, >> Ha ha? >> >> >> >> But perhaps not so very funny, right? >> >> >> >> God help us ? it all fits ? and now international pandemic and the next >> step is to defenestrate our only World Health Organisation? >> >> >> >> I can?t see anything short of a massive rebellion being an appropriate >> response? get those idiots out of the white house? >> >> >> >> Julian >> >> >> >> >> *Subject: *Fwd: Unbelievable >> >> >> >> White House counselor Kellyanne Conway falsely suggested Wednesday that >> there had been 18 previous strains of the novel coronavirus as she defended >> President Trump?s decision to suspend funding to the World Health >> Organization. >> >> >> >> "This is covid-19, not covid-1, folks, and so you would think the people >> charged with the World Health Organization facts and figures would be on >> top of that,? Conway said during an interview on Fox News. >> >> >> >> In fact, the ?19? at the end of the virus?s name denotes that it was >> discovered in 2019, not that it is the 19th strain of the virus. At its >> outset, it was referred to by health officials as the ?2019 novel >> coronavirus.? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > > the creation of utopias ? and their exhaustive criticism ? is the proper > and distinctive method of sociology. H.G.Wells > > --------------------------------------------------- > For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other > members of LCHC, visit > lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the > research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. > > > -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!TvjLpFvScFO4W1iXy3ssOEnQZ4dpFALCqIWR0hneJWMUI2EAPJnU3bffkiskRlUNM37RNg$ https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!TvjLpFvScFO4W1iXy3ssOEnQZ4dpFALCqIWR0hneJWMUI2EAPJnU3bffkiskRlUEE0UvCA$ -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!TvjLpFvScFO4W1iXy3ssOEnQZ4dpFALCqIWR0hneJWMUI2EAPJnU3bffkiskRlUNM37RNg$ https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!TvjLpFvScFO4W1iXy3ssOEnQZ4dpFALCqIWR0hneJWMUI2EAPJnU3bffkiskRlUEE0UvCA$ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200416/875dc34c/attachment.html From ewall@umich.edu Thu Apr 16 15:21:34 2020 From: ewall@umich.edu (Edward Wall) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2020 17:21:34 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid 19: Getting the Name Right In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If you?all want to get picky about names you might look here for some possibilities:. https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/types.html__;!!Mih3wA!QDqoHKfN9rsIen0hktwg62vWF_Zg0RnuNDpr6G3EFD42Kj1NDYzm2T7NEly6rlqhG6ZKwQ$ . In any case, I find the other name: SARS-CoV-2 far more informative, far more relevant, and far more disturbing as regards the situation at hand. Gadamer writes ?Thus a person who wants to understands must question what lies behind what is said. He must understand it as an answer to a question. If we go back behind what is said then we inevitably ask questions beyond what is said.? So, perhaps, I have problems with a thinking that believes it has landed on the ?correct? definition/answer (and all other thinkers are fools) as that may well entail, perhaps innocently, a curtailing of the crucial question. I find that the the answer 'COVID-19? obscures a lot (and, to be fair, does some illumination). Ed Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is. > On Apr 16, 2020, at 3:35 PM, David Kellogg wrote: > > I won't pretend to you that this is on my night table. Someone recently sent me the following quote from Hegel: > > ?For although it is commonly said that reasonable men pay attention not to the word but to the thing itself, yet this does not give us permission to describe a thing in terms inappropriate to it. For this is at once incompetence and deceit, to fancy and to pretend that one merely has not the right word, and to hide from oneself that really one has failed to get hold of the thing itself, i.e. the Notion. If one had the Notion, then one would also have the right word.? (p.198) ? sec. 329 > > Vygotsky liked to quote Tolstoy: ????? ????? ?????? ??????, ????? ?????? ??????? (the word is nearly (!) always read when the concept is ready) but it seems to me that in this case he would have stressed the word "nearly". There was a long debate over what to call Covid 19 at the WHO, and many people (including Michael Lin at Stanford) opine that they got it wrong. > > I think that they got it right, but that it took a while. I don't think it is > non-argument to point out that repeated attempts to change the name to "Chinese virus" or the nineteenth iteration of Covid or whatever are also motivated and not in a good way. > > More importantly (because as Hegel says mere incompetence and transparent self-deceit are at stake in this instance) I think in most societies naming is a process--a child has different names at different times of life, and LSV is probaby wrong to treat naming as a single function of speech that is simply replaced by signifying and does not itself develop. > > What disturbs me about the Hegel quote (and LSV's obvious enthusiasm for it) is that it seems to suggest that everything has, in the final analysis, only one correct name. But perhaps it all depends on that final analysis. > > David Kellogg > Sangmyung University > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational action research' in Mind Culture and Activity > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847__;!!Mih3wA!QDqoHKfN9rsIen0hktwg62vWF_Zg0RnuNDpr6G3EFD42Kj1NDYzm2T7NEly6rlrIn0WvdQ$ > > Some free e-prints available at: > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080*10749039.2020.1745847__;Lw!!Mih3wA!QDqoHKfN9rsIen0hktwg62vWF_Zg0RnuNDpr6G3EFD42Kj1NDYzm2T7NEly6rlq6MY00Wg$ > > New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!QDqoHKfN9rsIen0hktwg62vWF_Zg0RnuNDpr6G3EFD42Kj1NDYzm2T7NEly6rlp71yAcnw$ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200416/385386cf/attachment-0001.html From nardi@ics.uci.edu Thu Apr 16 15:40:49 2020 From: nardi@ics.uci.edu (Bonnie Nardi) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2020 15:40:49 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: FW: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News? In-Reply-To: <67D4C8C6-80FE-4A0B-9D32-34AE80FFF490@manchester.ac.uk> References: <67D4C8C6-80FE-4A0B-9D32-34AE80FFF490@manchester.ac.uk> Message-ID: Watching the debacle of Trump reveals, to me at least, how important class analysis is. Trump is deranged, and his everyday actions fall completely outside all social norms of decency, yet he is *consistently supported* by (1) his Republican cohorts, (2) big business (Bill Gates: ?I don?t rule out voting for Trump if I have to pay too much in taxes??) and (3) the alienated/uneducated class who?d rather at least have the fun of throwing a brick through the window than put up with any more PC bs (or abortion rights or separation of church and state). A potent and scary mix. The "complicity" Greg mentioned has several sources, all class-based in my view, but oddly variable. Trump is a symptom of a society running off the rails. He could not have come to power had not the underlying conditions been ripe for it. He wasn?t the lesser of two evils for many voters ? he was finally someone who they thought spoke for them whether they occupied corporate boardrooms or NASCAR bleachers or evangelical pews. Europe is also producing fascist-leaning leaders and other places have them firmly ensconced. It?s damn weird to me that we?ve gone, in my lifetime, from U.S. leadership in gay rights, civil rights, disability rights, and environmentalism, to the current horrendous situation. (Europe has implemented better environmental policies but the groundwork was laid in the U.S.) I love the U.S. the way a parent still loves a teenager gone bad, but that?s beside the point, this is now global, as Julian points out. We are all in this together. Neoliberalism deftly divides us (I see it, e.g., in the virus discussions about how old people, are, let?s face it, expendable, and we worry too much about them -- the young need to get back to work, etc. There?s as much of this on reddit as there is from Republicans.) What to do? The first thing is to rethink what a society can and should be. As part of this exercise I recommend Andre Gorz's *Paths to Paradise*. It's short, sweet, and prescient. Gorz recognized that environmental problems come from too much frenetic economic activity and that we are spending too much of our lives in alienating workplaces. He recommended a lot more automation and a lot more sharing of wealth. He has been a touchstone for me and others in the Computing within LIMITS community (see https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://computingwithinlimits.org/2020/__;!!Mih3wA!X6Z1zy1ywvBUsh4PLzAdjWe7J-gfCIiKCjavnOndv0aE8iksRfWM1OkKDsjdIra1sk7s_Q$ for all the papers going back to 2015). I think we absolutely have to address the big picture and smaller efforts (like growing meat in labs and so on) are not going to do much. The pandemic has shown Gorz to be right about the environment -- I have been astonished at how quickly air and water are clearing, how animals are benefiting, etc. I didn't expect all that to happen so fast. In the San Francisco Bay Area where I live, air pollution is down 40%. There's lots of good media reporting on these kinds of changes which are global. I think we must look to what CHAT has written about personality. I have never really understood that work but I sense that it's important. The culture now produces neoliberal "entrepreneurs" with their self-branding and paddle-your-own-canoe philosophies, but other eras produced other types. I live in a coastal town, and while the beach parking lots are closed, the surfers, walkers, and cyclists are out when they aren't normally out. They are probably getting their work done virtually in less time than normal (without a commute and the distractions of the office), and doing what they love doing! Maybe we need a world of walkers and surfers -- that personality type. I'd be happy if people were more focused on knitting, and baking, and carpentry -- all those homely ways of producing rather than working, often for very little money, so they can buy everything at the store. Most of it ends up in landfills, by design, or, if it's food, it is so awful it contributes to the chronic diseases. Or working hard at high end jobs and ending up feeling one is entitled to what one has (the Bay Area has been badly affected by this) and that if you are poor it's kind of your own fault. Yes, I recognize that staying home more has costs and that we can't produce everything ourselves, but the solution to the big picture is not to send everyone off to the workplace for most of their lives but to address issues of violence, production, quality of life, and so on in direct ways. We can't rely on by-products of our current work habits to stem violence, for example. That is just not right. The post-growth movement in Europe is doing thoughtful work, and I recommend what they write. They cite Gorz (as well as Gandhi, Donella Meadows, and so on), and I think they are on the right track. Best, - Bonnie Bonnie Nardi Professor (Emer.) Department of Informatics School of Information and Computer Sciences 5088 Bren Hall UC Irvine 92697-3440 https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://darrouzet-nardi.net/bonnie__;!!Mih3wA!X6Z1zy1ywvBUsh4PLzAdjWe7J-gfCIiKCjavnOndv0aE8iksRfWM1OkKDsjdIrbdA0uVBQ$ NEW BOOK: Heteromation and Other Stories of Computing and Capitalism (with Hamid Ekbia, MIT Press, 2017) On Apr 16, 2020, at 11:14 AM, Julian Williams < julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk> wrote: Mike, hi Surely not funny, of course. And we should have an even greater concern about India, where 1.4billion people are supposedly ?shut down? ( actually, many millions are walking hundreds of miles ?home? from the cities to their villages, wearing masks, but .. ), and nationalist, anti-Muslim extremism - rampant before the crisis ? is growing: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.democracynow.org/2020/4/16/arundhati_roy_coronavirus_india?utm_source=Democracy*Now*21&utm_campaign=5b85440b98-Daily_Digest_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_fa2346a853-5b85440b98-192514813__;KyU!!Mih3wA!X6Z1zy1ywvBUsh4PLzAdjWe7J-gfCIiKCjavnOndv0aE8iksRfWM1OkKDsjdIrYgJC4CPQ$ We can anticipate at least 40 million deaths in India if this gets going - and the fascists are planning to emerge dominant from this ? all encouraged by your big man in the WH. These deaths will perhaps make the holocaust seem like small fry ? will we ever see trials for crimes against humanity? Perhaps not, because it will be difficult to pin these deaths on to intentional action, but maybe there should be a crime for intentional inaction? The abject state of public health systems (long term) and the incompetence and political management (short term) being the main charges. Then in the US we can see some analyses of the way the deaths are hugely discriminatory against black/ethnic minorities and the poor: ?More than 70 per cent of COVID-19 deaths in the state of Louisiana were African-Americans, despite accounting for just a third of the general population. In New York City it's 17 per cent of deaths, for a 9 per cent share of residents.? https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-16/drum-covid-african-american-affected/12153268__;!!Mih3wA!X6Z1zy1ywvBUsh4PLzAdjWe7J-gfCIiKCjavnOndv0aE8iksRfWM1OkKDsjdIraMabnSgA$ Globally translated ? this will become a terrible indictment of the world?s structure of poverty: I had to pause the other day ? is this kind of admittedly political posting appropriate to xmca listserve?s concerns: I think that?s a question for xmca ? ?are we/is xmca relevant to the millions of deaths likely as the pandemic spreads to the poor nations?? The question is moot ? only you people out there can say, or do by saying. Julian PS It?s good that in some parts of the world this information is still getting out. The middle east, and Africa, in many parts, maybe is more difficult. *From: * on behalf of mike cole < mcole@ucsd.edu> *Reply-To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" *Date: *Thursday, 16 April 2020 at 18:36 *To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: FW: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News? There is absolutely nothing funny about the crypto fascists running this government, Julian. Trump is pushing towar monarchy in a fashion that might be funny if it were a Gilbert and Sullivan musical. mike On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 2:27 PM Julian Williams < julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk> wrote: Dear all, Kellyanne *Conwa*y ? I think I heard her name a while back ? what a Con, Ha ha? But perhaps not so very funny, right? God help us ? it all fits ? and now international pandemic and the next step is to defenestrate our only World Health Organisation? I can?t see anything short of a massive rebellion being an appropriate response? get those idiots out of the white house? Julian *Subject: *Fwd: Unbelievable White House counselor Kellyanne Conway falsely suggested Wednesday that there had been 18 previous strains of the novel coronavirus as she defended President Trump?s decision to suspend funding to the World Health Organization. "This is covid-19, not covid-1, folks, and so you would think the people charged with the World Health Organization facts and figures would be on top of that,? Conway said during an interview on Fox News. In fact, the ?19? at the end of the virus?s name denotes that it was discovered in 2019, not that it is the 19th strain of the virus. At its outset, it was referred to by health officials as the ?2019 novel coronavirus.? -- the creation of utopias ? and their exhaustive criticism ? is the proper and distinctive method of sociology. H.G.Wells --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200416/7cb472f6/attachment.html From ewall@umich.edu Thu Apr 16 16:01:59 2020 From: ewall@umich.edu (Edward Wall) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2020 18:01:59 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News? In-Reply-To: References: <67D4C8C6-80FE-4A0B-9D32-34AE80FFF490@manchester.ac.uk> Message-ID: <751BD885-98FE-4A3A-BE61-C1F737FC199B@umich.edu> Dear All I would appreciate if we could take such discussions off list, It is not that I don?t sympathize with the voiced frustrations, but I wish you would vent them elsewhere and elsewhen. Ed Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is. > On Apr 16, 2020, at 5:40 PM, Bonnie Nardi wrote: > > Watching the debacle of Trump reveals, to me at least, how important class analysis is. Trump is deranged, and his everyday actions fall completely outside all social norms of decency, yet he is consistently supported by (1) his Republican cohorts, (2) big business (Bill Gates: ?I don?t rule out voting for Trump if I have to pay too much in taxes??) and (3) the alienated/uneducated class who?d rather at least have the fun of throwing a brick through the window than put up with any more PC bs (or abortion rights or separation of church and state). A potent and scary mix. The "complicity" Greg mentioned has several sources, all class-based in my view, but oddly variable. > > Trump is a symptom of a society running off the rails. He could not have come to power had not the underlying conditions been ripe for it. He wasn?t the lesser of two evils for many voters ? he was finally someone who they thought spoke for them whether they occupied corporate boardrooms or NASCAR bleachers or evangelical pews. Europe is also producing fascist-leaning leaders and other places have them firmly ensconced. > > It?s damn weird to me that we?ve gone, in my lifetime, from U.S. leadership in gay rights, civil rights, disability rights, and environmentalism, to the current horrendous situation. (Europe has implemented better environmental policies but the groundwork was laid in the U.S.) I love the U.S. the way a parent still loves a teenager gone bad, but that?s beside the point, this is now global, as Julian points out. We are all in this together. Neoliberalism deftly divides us (I see it, e.g., in the virus discussions about how old people, are, let?s face it, expendable, and we worry too much about them -- the young need to get back to work, etc. There?s as much of this on reddit as there is from Republicans.) > > What to do? The first thing is to rethink what a society can and should be. As part of this exercise I recommend Andre Gorz's Paths to Paradise. It's short, sweet, and prescient. Gorz recognized that environmental problems come from too much frenetic economic activity and that we are spending too much of our lives in alienating workplaces. He recommended a lot more automation and a lot more sharing of wealth. He has been a touchstone for me and others in the Computing within LIMITS community (see https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://computingwithinlimits.org/2020/__;!!Mih3wA!QXRozaR-Z4A5auJdwspKKSorBcjdjJ_LtulysocTCQT5-wbOL5RPDwHIUvIflgk6BMFFkA$ for all the papers going back to 2015). > > I think we absolutely have to address the big picture and smaller efforts (like growing meat in labs and so on) are not going to do much. > > The pandemic has shown Gorz to be right about the environment -- I have been astonished at how quickly air and water are clearing, how animals are benefiting, etc. I didn't expect all that to happen so fast. In the San Francisco Bay Area where I live, air pollution is down 40%. There's lots of good media reporting on these kinds of changes which are global. > > I think we must look to what CHAT has written about personality. I have never really understood that work but I sense that it's important. The culture now produces neoliberal "entrepreneurs" with their self-branding and paddle-your-own-canoe philosophies, but other eras produced other types. I live in a coastal town, and while the beach parking lots are closed, the surfers, walkers, and cyclists are out when they aren't normally out. They are probably getting their work done virtually in less time than normal (without a commute and the distractions of the office), and doing what they love doing! Maybe we need a world of walkers and surfers -- that personality type. I'd be happy if people were more focused on knitting, and baking, and carpentry -- all those homely ways of producing rather than working, often for very little money, so they can buy everything at the store. Most of it ends up in landfills, by design, or, if it's food, it is so awful it contributes to the chronic diseases. Or working hard at high end jobs and ending up feeling one is entitled to what one has (the Bay Area has been badly affected by this) and that if you are poor it's kind of your own fault. > > Yes, I recognize that staying home more has costs and that we can't produce everything ourselves, but the solution to the big picture is not to send everyone off to the workplace for most of their lives but to address issues of violence, production, quality of life, and so on in direct ways. We can't rely on by-products of our current work habits to stem violence, for example. That is just not right. > > The post-growth movement in Europe is doing thoughtful work, and I recommend what they write. They cite Gorz (as well as Gandhi, Donella Meadows, and so on), and I think they are on the right track. > > Best, > > - > > Bonnie > > > > > Bonnie Nardi > Professor (Emer.) > Department of Informatics > School of Information and Computer Sciences > 5088 Bren Hall > UC Irvine 92697-3440 > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://darrouzet-nardi.net/bonnie__;!!Mih3wA!QXRozaR-Z4A5auJdwspKKSorBcjdjJ_LtulysocTCQT5-wbOL5RPDwHIUvIflgmfC2RoZg$ > NEW BOOK: Heteromation and Other Stories of Computing and Capitalism (with Hamid Ekbia, MIT Press, 2017) > >> On Apr 16, 2020, at 11:14 AM, Julian Williams > wrote: >> >> Mike, hi >> >> Surely not funny, of course. And we should have an even greater concern about India, where 1.4billion people are supposedly ?shut down? ( actually, many millions are walking hundreds of miles ?home? from the cities to their villages, wearing masks, but .. ), and nationalist, anti-Muslim extremism - rampant before the crisis ? is growing: >> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.democracynow.org/2020/4/16/arundhati_roy_coronavirus_india?utm_source=Democracy*Now*21&utm_campaign=5b85440b98-Daily_Digest_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_fa2346a853-5b85440b98-192514813__;KyU!!Mih3wA!QXRozaR-Z4A5auJdwspKKSorBcjdjJ_LtulysocTCQT5-wbOL5RPDwHIUvIflgkun5EMFA$ >> >> We can anticipate at least 40 million deaths in India if this gets going - and the fascists are planning to emerge dominant from this ? all encouraged by your big man in the WH. >> >> These deaths will perhaps make the holocaust seem like small fry ? will we ever see trials for crimes against humanity? Perhaps not, because it will be difficult to pin these deaths on to intentional action, but maybe there should be a crime for intentional inaction? The abject state of public health systems (long term) and the incompetence and political management (short term) being the main charges. >> >> Then in the US we can see some analyses of the way the deaths are hugely discriminatory against black/ethnic minorities and the poor: ?More than 70 per cent of COVID-19 deaths in the state of Louisiana were African-Americans, despite accounting for just a third of the general population. In New York City it's 17 per cent of deaths, for a 9 per cent share of residents.?https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-16/drum-covid-african-american-affected/12153268__;!!Mih3wA!QXRozaR-Z4A5auJdwspKKSorBcjdjJ_LtulysocTCQT5-wbOL5RPDwHIUvIflgnDWX4nnw$ Globally translated ? this will become a terrible indictment of the world?s structure of poverty: >> >> I had to pause the other day ? is this kind of admittedly political posting appropriate to xmca listserve?s concerns: I think that?s a question for xmca ? ?are we/is xmca relevant to the millions of deaths likely as the pandemic spreads to the poor nations?? The question is moot ? only you people out there can say, or do by saying. >> >> Julian >> >> PS It?s good that in some parts of the world this information is still getting out. The middle east, and Africa, in many parts, maybe is more difficult. >> >> From: > on behalf of mike cole > >> Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > >> Date: Thursday, 16 April 2020 at 18:36 >> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: FW: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News? >> >> There is absolutely nothing funny about the crypto fascists running this government, Julian. >> Trump is pushing towar monarchy in a fashion that might be funny if it were a Gilbert and Sullivan >> musical. >> mike >> >> On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 2:27 PM Julian Williams > wrote: >>> Dear all, >>> >>> Kellyanne Conway ? I think I heard her name a while back ? what a Con, Ha ha? >>> >>> But perhaps not so very funny, right? >>> >>> God help us ? it all fits ? and now international pandemic and the next step is to defenestrate our only World Health Organisation? >>> >>> I can?t see anything short of a massive rebellion being an appropriate response? get those idiots out of the white house? >>> >>> Julian >>> >>> >>> Subject: Fwd: Unbelievable >>> >>> White House counselor Kellyanne Conway falsely suggested Wednesday that there had been 18 previous strains of the novel coronavirus as she defended President Trump?s decision to suspend funding to the World Health Organization. >>> >>> "This is covid-19, not covid-1, folks, and so you would think the people charged with the World Health Organization facts and figures would be on top of that,? Conway said during an interview on Fox News. >>> >>> In fact, the ?19? at the end of the virus?s name denotes that it was discovered in 2019, not that it is the 19th strain of the virus. At its outset, it was referred to by health officials as the ?2019 novel coronavirus.? >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >>> the creation of utopias ? and their exhaustive criticism ? is the proper and distinctive method of sociology. H.G.Wells >> >> --------------------------------------------------- >> For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit >> lchc.ucsd.edu . For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu . > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200416/390e005c/attachment.html From greg.a.thompson@gmail.com Thu Apr 16 16:49:59 2020 From: greg.a.thompson@gmail.com (Greg Thompson) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2020 17:49:59 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: FW: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Perhaps I should have posted this to a new thread? (Also, I didn?t see Bonnies post that Ed replied to. Maybe things are still getting worked out with the server?). On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 3:46 PM Greg Thompson wrote: > One local cultural-historical question, perhaps relevant to this list > serve, is Raised by the fact that in the US there are large numbers of > people who are complicit with Trump's tyranny. And it seems that there is > no reasoning with them; anything other than what Trump says is presumed to > be #fakenews (and, of course, there are enough examples of bad reporting > and biased coverage (#bernie) that make these claims at least partly > credible). Add to that the fact that we live in media cocoons where we > consume only that which is pleasing to us and I think we have the basis for > something like a Civil War here in the U.S. (too dramatic?). > > I'd love to hear advice/counsel from folks who have lived through this > kind of thing in the past. How do these things get resolved? what kinds of > actions are needed/essential? (I heard one historian say that, historically > speaking, it takes about 5-6 years before the magic of political charlatans > begins to wear off - he predicted that with Trump, the reaction will be > violent - although this would of course put that violent revival a year or > so into Trump's second term). > > It seems like this list serve could be a great resource for thinking big > about this historical moment in ways that get beyond just calling people > names (And not to downplay the value of name-calling, it is a very common > way of establishing in-group solidarity, but I get plenty of that on > Facebook - in fact that's about all I get on Facebook and it seems to have > had little, perhaps even a negative impact since it has emboldened > Trumpistas even more to point out how intolerant and ignorant liberals are! > (and to be sure, Trumpistas are a whiny lot!)). > > Anyway, I love CHAT?s long view of thinking about social historical > processes across the long Duree and how our present moment fits into this > so that we can try to answer the question: What is to be done? (Isn?t that > about what Marx was up to?). > > But maybe that is too big a project for a listserve? perhaps the best we > could do is to take a look back at Marx? > > -greg > > On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 11:36 AM mike cole wrote: > >> There is absolutely nothing funny about the crypto fascists running this >> government, Julian. >> Trump is pushing towar monarchy in a fashion that might be funny if it >> were a Gilbert and Sullivan >> musical. >> mike >> >> On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 2:27 PM Julian Williams < >> julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk> wrote: >> >>> Dear all, >>> >>> >>> >>> Kellyanne *Conwa*y ? I think I heard her name a while back ? what a >>> Con, Ha ha? >>> >>> >>> >>> But perhaps not so very funny, right? >>> >>> >>> >>> God help us ? it all fits ? and now international pandemic and the next >>> step is to defenestrate our only World Health Organisation? >>> >>> >>> >>> I can?t see anything short of a massive rebellion being an appropriate >>> response? get those idiots out of the white house? >>> >>> >>> >>> Julian >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *Subject: *Fwd: Unbelievable >>> >>> >>> >>> White House counselor Kellyanne Conway falsely suggested Wednesday that >>> there had been 18 previous strains of the novel coronavirus as she defended >>> President Trump?s decision to suspend funding to the World Health >>> Organization. >>> >>> >>> >>> "This is covid-19, not covid-1, folks, and so you would think the people >>> charged with the World Health Organization facts and figures would be on >>> top of that,? Conway said during an interview on Fox News. >>> >>> >>> >>> In fact, the ?19? at the end of the virus?s name denotes that it was >>> discovered in 2019, not that it is the 19th strain of the virus. At its >>> outset, it was referred to by health officials as the ?2019 novel >>> coronavirus.? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> >> the creation of utopias ? and their exhaustive criticism ? is the proper >> and distinctive method of sociology. H.G.Wells >> >> --------------------------------------------------- >> For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other >> members of LCHC, visit >> lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the >> research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. >> >> >> > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!Wn8AODGFFLOQfawOKI5ygHbcrA8eXejjlQH7o3cfyUWK8vQGonRJbexL-N0XZb3CI9j9Kg$ > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!Wn8AODGFFLOQfawOKI5ygHbcrA8eXejjlQH7o3cfyUWK8vQGonRJbexL-N0XZb2Xy8L8_w$ > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!Wn8AODGFFLOQfawOKI5ygHbcrA8eXejjlQH7o3cfyUWK8vQGonRJbexL-N0XZb3CI9j9Kg$ > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!Wn8AODGFFLOQfawOKI5ygHbcrA8eXejjlQH7o3cfyUWK8vQGonRJbexL-N0XZb2Xy8L8_w$ > -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!Wn8AODGFFLOQfawOKI5ygHbcrA8eXejjlQH7o3cfyUWK8vQGonRJbexL-N0XZb3CI9j9Kg$ https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!Wn8AODGFFLOQfawOKI5ygHbcrA8eXejjlQH7o3cfyUWK8vQGonRJbexL-N0XZb2Xy8L8_w$ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200416/d947886a/attachment.html From andyb@marxists.org Thu Apr 16 19:54:58 2020 From: andyb@marxists.org (Andy Blunden) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 12:54:58 +1000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid 19: Getting the Name Right In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7e8825d5-88dd-a6b5-90a5-f859be35d27f@marxists.org> Well, the Americans did pretty well in naming the flu pandemic which was incubated in a military camp in Kansas and taken across the Atlantic to Spain en route to the carnage in France, the "Spanish Flu." Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ *Andy Blunden* Hegel for Social Movements Home Page On 17/04/2020 8:21 am, Edward Wall wrote: > ? ? ? If you?all want to get picky about names you might > look here for some possibilities:. > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/types.html__;!!Mih3wA!WkdkQgveBxmpghUoOmf7xks2JBWnLppU0ECMuZC0NNuLIi0R5MGMZdiJsQ85FPP2oA3Exg$ > . > > > ? ? ? In any case, I find the other name: SARS-CoV-2 > ?far > more informative, far more relevant, and far more > disturbing as regards the situation at hand. > > ? ? ? ? ? ? Gadamer writes ?Thus a person who wants to > understands must question what lies behind what is said. > He must understand it as an answer to a question. If we go > back behind what is said then we inevitably ask questions > beyond what is said.? So, perhaps, I have problems with a > thinking that believes it has landed on the ?correct? > definition/answer (and all other thinkers are fools) as > that may well entail, perhaps innocently, a curtailing of > the crucial question. I find that the the answer > 'COVID-19? obscures a lot (and, to be fair, does some > illumination). > > Ed > Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he > is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him > for what he is. > >> On Apr 16, 2020, at ?3:35 PM, David Kellogg >> > wrote: >> >> I?won't pretend to you that this is on my night table. >> Someone recently sent me the following quote from Hegel: >> >> ?For although it is commonly said that reasonable men pay >> attention not to the word but to the thing itself, yet >> this does not give us permission to describe a thing in >> terms inappropriate to it. For this is at once >> incompetence and deceit, to fancy and to pretend that one >> merely has not the right /word/, and to hide from oneself >> that really one has failed to get hold of the thing >> itself, i.e. the Notion. If one had the Notion, then one >> would also have the right word.? (p.198) ? sec. 329 >> >> Vygotsky liked to quote Tolstoy: ????? ????? ?????? >> ??????, ????? ?????? ??????? (the word is nearly (!) >> always read when the concept is ready) but it seems to me >> that in this case he would have stressed the word >> "nearly". There was a long debate over what to call Covid >> 19 at the WHO, and many people (including Michael Lin at >> Stanford) opine that they got it wrong. >> >> I?think that they got it right, but that it took a while. >> I don't think it is >> non-argument to point out that repeated attempts to >> change the name to "Chinese virus" or the nineteenth >> iteration of Covid or whatever are also motivated and not >> in a good way. >> >> More importantly (because as Hegel says mere incompetence >> and transparent self-deceit are?at stake in this >> instance) I think in most societies naming is a >> process--a child has different names at different times >> of life, and LSV is probaby wrong to treat naming as a >> single function of speech that is simply replaced by >> signifying and does not itself develop. >> >> What disturbs me about the Hegel quote (and LSV's obvious >> enthusiasm for it)?is that it seems to suggest that >> everything has, in the final analysis, only one correct >> name.?But perhaps it all depends on that final analysis. >> >> David Kellogg >> Sangmyung University >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal >> of/Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: >> Phenomenal forms and educational action research'? >> in/Mind Culture and Activity// >> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847__;!!Mih3wA!WkdkQgveBxmpghUoOmf7xks2JBWnLppU0ECMuZC0NNuLIi0R5MGMZdiJsQ85FPPlVcTZsA$ >> >> / >> / >> Some free e-prints available at: >> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080*10749039.2020.1745847__;Lw!!Mih3wA!WkdkQgveBxmpghUoOmf7xks2JBWnLppU0ECMuZC0NNuLIi0R5MGMZdiJsQ85FPPGSFzBZg$ >> >> >> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's >> Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" >> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!WkdkQgveBxmpghUoOmf7xks2JBWnLppU0ECMuZC0NNuLIi0R5MGMZdiJsQ85FPN4kzCiow$ >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200417/1960b558/attachment-0001.html From greg.a.thompson@gmail.com Thu Apr 16 20:47:56 2020 From: greg.a.thompson@gmail.com (Greg Thompson) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2020 21:47:56 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: FW: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News? In-Reply-To: References: <67D4C8C6-80FE-4A0B-9D32-34AE80FFF490@manchester.ac.uk> Message-ID: Bonnie, I like your suggestions very much (I finally got to read them just now since they didn't come through to my email at first). I find your suggestion about CHAT approaches to personality to be particularly interesting (as long as we place it in a Marxian lineage rather than a lineage of Western personality psychology - I assume that the former is at least close to what you meant?). How personalities (perhaps "personas"?) can emerge in different times and given different relations to production (and in different regimes of production). To your description of neoliberal entrepreneurs, I would add the anxiety that has become oh so commonplace - anxious, always anxious - about everything from grades to test scores to post-collegiate jobs (think about facing that right now). Psycho-precarity is a constant state of existence for these budding neoliberal "entrepreneurs". So yes, by all means, surfer personalities would be a nice corrective. And skateboarder personalities. And punks. And knitters (that's so punk!). and bakers, and carpenters, and so on. [Let me know if I'm off here but it sounded like you were flagging a classically (sorry I'm not using this as a term of art - I'm not that sophisticated!) Marxist concern with consciousness and the ways that consciousness is mediated by our relation to the means of production. And then also a more specific concern with the idea of false consciousness that develops from that.] Also, I wonder if you would agree with me (and, by my reading, Marx) that neoliberalism (capitalism) is also what brings us together? The global flows that have been enabled by neoliberalism are yes quite bad in the sense that they made the spread of this virus possible. But these flows also mean that we are coming close to what Andy has called a world-perezhivanie - an experience the world over of something close to the "same" thing (even if there are massive inequalities in terms of death and infection that will follow the massive inequalities set up by neoliberalism). Perhaps this is a morbid thought, but might this be an opportunity for beginning to realize a kind of global community that Marx imagined? And yes, I agree, I find it hard to be hopeful about this possibility (my mind goes straight to imagining us Americans gawking at the death tolls in other countries - partly elated that we didn't post the worst numbers of infections and deaths (as we are right now) and partly glad that it isn't happening here and partly ignorant/uncaring about the suffering of others when life remains good here). -greg On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 6:46 PM Bonnie Nardi wrote: > Watching the debacle of Trump reveals, to me at least, how important class > analysis is. Trump is deranged, and his everyday actions fall completely > outside all social norms of decency, yet he is *consistently supported* > by (1) his Republican cohorts, (2) big business (Bill Gates: ?I don?t rule > out voting for Trump if I have to pay too much in taxes??) and (3) the > alienated/uneducated class who?d rather at least have the fun of throwing a > brick through the window than put up with any more PC bs (or abortion > rights or separation of church and state). A potent and scary mix. The > "complicity" Greg mentioned has several sources, all class-based in my > view, but oddly variable. > > Trump is a symptom of a society running off the rails. He could not have > come to power had not the underlying conditions been ripe for it. He wasn?t > the lesser of two evils for many voters ? he was finally someone who they > thought spoke for them whether they occupied corporate boardrooms or NASCAR > bleachers or evangelical pews. Europe is also producing fascist-leaning > leaders and other places have them firmly ensconced. > > It?s damn weird to me that we?ve gone, in my lifetime, from U.S. > leadership in gay rights, civil rights, disability rights, and > environmentalism, to the current horrendous situation. (Europe has > implemented better environmental policies but the groundwork was laid in > the U.S.) I love the U.S. the way a parent still loves a teenager gone bad, > but that?s beside the point, this is now global, as Julian points out. We > are all in this together. Neoliberalism deftly divides us (I see it, e.g., > in the virus discussions about how old people, are, let?s face it, > expendable, and we worry too much about them -- the young need to get back > to work, etc. There?s as much of this on reddit as there is from > Republicans.) > > What to do? The first thing is to rethink what a society can and should > be. As part of this exercise I recommend Andre Gorz's *Paths to Paradise*. > It's short, sweet, and prescient. Gorz recognized that environmental > problems come from too much frenetic economic activity and that we are > spending too much of our lives in alienating workplaces. He recommended a > lot more automation and a lot more sharing of wealth. He has been a > touchstone for me and others in the Computing within LIMITS community (see > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://computingwithinlimits.org/2020/__;!!Mih3wA!QZZXBnDKax_dkndwehylKjl3qKqTZhUyif-IC9m-Wt1ApkgicnfR0CawVvb3YX0_gw037Q$ > > for all the papers going back to 2015). > > I think we absolutely have to address the big picture and smaller efforts > (like growing meat in labs and so on) are not going to do much. > > The pandemic has shown Gorz to be right about the environment -- I have > been astonished at how quickly air and water are clearing, how animals are > benefiting, etc. I didn't expect all that to happen so fast. In the San > Francisco Bay Area where I live, air pollution is down 40%. There's lots of > good media reporting on these kinds of changes which are global. > > I think we must look to what CHAT has written about personality. I have > never really understood that work but I sense that it's important. The > culture now produces neoliberal "entrepreneurs" with their self-branding > and paddle-your-own-canoe philosophies, but other eras produced other > types. I live in a coastal town, and while the beach parking lots are > closed, the surfers, walkers, and cyclists are out when they aren't > normally out. They are probably getting their work done virtually in less > time than normal (without a commute and the distractions of the office), > and doing what they love doing! Maybe we need a world of walkers and > surfers -- that personality type. I'd be happy if people were more focused > on knitting, and baking, and carpentry -- all those homely ways of > producing rather than working, often for very little money, so they can buy > everything at the store. Most of it ends up in landfills, by design, or, if > it's food, it is so awful it contributes to the chronic diseases. Or > working hard at high end jobs and ending up feeling one is entitled to what > one has (the Bay Area has been badly affected by this) and that if you are > poor it's kind of your own fault. > > Yes, I recognize that staying home more has costs and that we can't > produce everything ourselves, but the solution to the big picture is not to > send everyone off to the workplace for most of their lives but to address > issues of violence, production, quality of life, and so on in direct ways. > We can't rely on by-products of our current work habits to stem violence, > for example. That is just not right. > > The post-growth movement in Europe is doing thoughtful work, and I > recommend what they write. They cite Gorz (as well as Gandhi, Donella > Meadows, and so on), and I think they are on the right track. > > Best, > > - > > Bonnie > > > > > Bonnie Nardi > Professor (Emer.) > Department of Informatics > School of Information and Computer Sciences > 5088 Bren Hall > UC Irvine 92697-3440 > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://darrouzet-nardi.net/bonnie__;!!Mih3wA!QZZXBnDKax_dkndwehylKjl3qKqTZhUyif-IC9m-Wt1ApkgicnfR0CawVvb3YX2pRBsFxA$ > > NEW BOOK: Heteromation and Other Stories of Computing and > Capitalism (with Hamid Ekbia, MIT Press, 2017) > > On Apr 16, 2020, at 11:14 AM, Julian Williams < > julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk> wrote: > > Mike, hi > > Surely not funny, of course. And we should have an even greater concern > about India, where 1.4billion people are supposedly ?shut down? ( actually, > many millions are walking hundreds of miles ?home? from the cities to their > villages, wearing masks, but .. ), and nationalist, anti-Muslim extremism > - rampant before the crisis ? is growing: > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.democracynow.org/2020/4/16/arundhati_roy_coronavirus_india?utm_source=Democracy*Now*21&utm_campaign=5b85440b98-Daily_Digest_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_fa2346a853-5b85440b98-192514813__;KyU!!Mih3wA!QZZXBnDKax_dkndwehylKjl3qKqTZhUyif-IC9m-Wt1ApkgicnfR0CawVvb3YX1lIOZ5HQ$ > > > We can anticipate at least 40 million deaths in India if this gets going > - and the fascists are planning to emerge dominant from this ? all > encouraged by your big man in the WH. > > These deaths will perhaps make the holocaust seem like small fry ? will we > ever see trials for crimes against humanity? Perhaps not, because it will > be difficult to pin these deaths on to intentional action, but maybe there > should be a crime for intentional inaction? The abject state of public > health systems (long term) and the incompetence and political management > (short term) being the main charges. > > Then in the US we can see some analyses of the way the deaths are hugely > discriminatory against black/ethnic minorities and the poor: ?More than > 70 per cent of COVID-19 deaths in the state of Louisiana were > African-Americans, despite accounting for just a third of the general > population. In New York City it's 17 per cent of deaths, for a 9 per cent > share of residents.? > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-16/drum-covid-african-american-affected/12153268__;!!Mih3wA!QZZXBnDKax_dkndwehylKjl3qKqTZhUyif-IC9m-Wt1ApkgicnfR0CawVvb3YX2kh2G4Nw$ > > Globally translated ? this will become a terrible indictment of the > world?s structure of poverty: > > I had to pause the other day ? is this kind of admittedly political > posting appropriate to xmca listserve?s concerns: I think that?s a question > for xmca ? ?are we/is xmca relevant to the millions of deaths likely as the > pandemic spreads to the poor nations?? The question is moot ? only you > people out there can say, or do by saying. > > Julian > > PS It?s good that in some parts of the world this information is still > getting out. The middle east, and Africa, in many parts, maybe is more > difficult. > > *From: * on behalf of mike cole < > mcole@ucsd.edu> > *Reply-To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > *Date: *Thursday, 16 April 2020 at 18:36 > *To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: FW: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to > Fox News? > > There is absolutely nothing funny about the crypto fascists running this > government, Julian. > Trump is pushing towar monarchy in a fashion that might be funny if it > were a Gilbert and Sullivan > musical. > mike > > On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 2:27 PM Julian Williams < > julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk> wrote: > > Dear all, > > Kellyanne *Conwa*y ? I think I heard her name a while back ? what a Con, > Ha ha? > > But perhaps not so very funny, right? > > God help us ? it all fits ? and now international pandemic and the next > step is to defenestrate our only World Health Organisation? > > I can?t see anything short of a massive rebellion being an appropriate > response? get those idiots out of the white house? > > Julian > > > *Subject: *Fwd: Unbelievable > > White House counselor Kellyanne Conway falsely suggested Wednesday that > there had been 18 previous strains of the novel coronavirus as she defended > President Trump?s decision to suspend funding to the World Health > Organization. > > "This is covid-19, not covid-1, folks, and so you would think the people > charged with the World Health Organization facts and figures would be on > top of that,? Conway said during an interview on Fox News. > > In fact, the ?19? at the end of the virus?s name denotes that it was > discovered in 2019, not that it is the 19th strain of the virus. At its > outset, it was referred to by health officials as the ?2019 novel > coronavirus.? > > > > > > > -- > > the creation of utopias ? and their exhaustive criticism ? is the proper > and distinctive method of sociology. H.G.Wells > > --------------------------------------------------- > For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other > members of LCHC, visit > lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the > research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. > > > -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!QZZXBnDKax_dkndwehylKjl3qKqTZhUyif-IC9m-Wt1ApkgicnfR0CawVvb3YX0Qp4nExg$ https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!QZZXBnDKax_dkndwehylKjl3qKqTZhUyif-IC9m-Wt1ApkgicnfR0CawVvb3YX1PIrnj8g$ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200416/5e88c4f5/attachment.html From andyb@marxists.org Thu Apr 16 21:44:22 2020 From: andyb@marxists.org (Andy Blunden) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 14:44:22 +1000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: FW: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News? In-Reply-To: References: <67D4C8C6-80FE-4A0B-9D32-34AE80FFF490@manchester.ac.uk> Message-ID: <214e3641-2bec-1c2a-8bf1-55b7c5473a00@marxists.org> I think the mid-20th century Freudians amply demonstrated that the concepts of personal development can shed light on societal phenomena. Only a pity that they had such a limited theory of personality. Ordinary, uneducated people are sometimes derided for voting on personality, but given that the information and ability to make rational judgments on matters of national policy is given to very few, it is absolutely rational for people to pick their leaders and representatives on the basis of how they perceive the personality of the candidates. The result is of course that national leaders often turn out as kind of caricatures of national personalities. Trump and Boris Johnson are examples. It is a matter of deep concern of course that tens of millions of Americans looked at Trump and thought, "Now, he's my kinda guy," and likewise tens of millions of English looked at Boris Johnson thought "Now there's a fellow who I can trust!" And it brings me no joy to recall that millions of Australians looked at Scott Morrison, the "daggy Dad" of politics, and thought: "I think he's the safest bet in these times." We need to bring decision making closer to home. Otherwise people think in what Vygotsky called "diverse concepts." And Greg, we /are/ all experiencing the same pandemic, even though we're experiencing it differently, and it will be those differences which will be important engines of change in the years ahead. Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ *Andy Blunden* Hegel for Social Movements Home Page On 17/04/2020 1:47 pm, Greg Thompson wrote: > Bonnie, > > I like your suggestions very much (I finally got to read > them just now since they didn't come through to my email > at first). > > I find your suggestion about CHAT approaches to > personality to be particularly interesting (as long as we > place it in a Marxian lineage rather than a lineage of > Western personality psychology - I assume that the former > is at least close to what you meant?). How personalities > (perhaps "personas"?) can emerge in different times and > given different relations to production (and in different > regimes of production). To your description of neoliberal > entrepreneurs, I would add the anxiety that has become oh > so commonplace - anxious, always anxious - about > everything from grades to test scores to post-collegiate > jobs (think about facing that right now). Psycho-precarity > is a constant state of existence for these budding > neoliberal "entrepreneurs". So yes, by all means, surfer > personalities would be a nice corrective. And skateboarder > personalities. And punks. And knitters (that's so punk!). > and bakers, and carpenters, and so on. > > [Let me know if I'm off here but it sounded like you were > flagging a classically (sorry I'm not using this as a term > of art - I'm not that sophisticated!) Marxist concern with > consciousness and the ways that consciousness is mediated > by our relation to the means of production. And then also > a more specific concern with the idea of false > consciousness that develops from that.] > > Also, I wonder if you would agree with me (and, by my > reading, Marx) that neoliberalism (capitalism) is also > what brings us together? The global flows that have been > enabled by neoliberalism are yes quite bad in the sense > that they made the spread of this virus possible. But > these flows also mean that we are coming close to what > Andy has called a world-perezhivanie - an experience the > world over of something close to the "same" thing (even if > there are massive inequalities in terms of death and > infection that will follow the massive inequalities set up > by neoliberalism). Perhaps this is a morbid thought, but > might this be an opportunity for beginning to realize a > kind of global community that Marx imagined? And yes, I > agree, I find it hard to be hopeful about this possibility > (my mind goes straight to imagining us Americans gawking > at the death tolls in other countries - partly elated that > we didn't post the worst numbers of infections and deaths > (as we are right now) and partly glad that it isn't > happening here and partly ignorant/uncaring about the > suffering of others when life remains good here). > > -greg > > > On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 6:46 PM Bonnie Nardi > > wrote: > > Watching the debacle of Trump reveals, to me at least, > how important class analysis is. Trump is deranged, > and his everyday actions fall completely outside all > social norms of decency, yet he is /consistently > supported/ by (1) his Republican cohorts, (2) big > business (Bill Gates: ?I don?t rule out voting for > Trump if I have to pay too much in taxes??) and (3) > the alienated/uneducated class who?d rather at least > have the fun of throwing a brick through the window > than put up with any more PC bs (or abortion rights or > separation of church and state). A potent and scary > mix. The "complicity" Greg mentioned has several > sources, all class-based in my view, but oddly variable. > > Trump is a symptom of a society running off the rails. > He could not have come to power had not the underlying > conditions been ripe for it. He wasn?t the lesser of > two evils for many voters ? he was finally someone who > they thought spoke for them whether they occupied > corporate boardrooms or NASCAR bleachers or > evangelical pews. Europe is also producing > fascist-leaning leaders and other places have them > firmly ensconced. > > It?s damn weird to me that we?ve gone, in my lifetime, > from U.S. leadership in gay rights, civil rights, > disability rights, and environmentalism, ?to the > current horrendous situation. (Europe has implemented > better environmental policies but the groundwork was > laid in the U.S.) I love the U.S. the way a parent > still loves a teenager gone bad, but that?s beside the > point, this is now global, as Julian points out.? We > are all in this together. Neoliberalism deftly divides > us (I see it, e.g., in the virus discussions about how > old people, are, let?s face it, expendable, and we > worry too much about them -- the young need to get > back to work, etc. There?s as much of this on reddit > as there is from Republicans.) > > What to do? The first thing is to rethink what a > society can and should be. As part of this exercise I > recommend Andre Gorz's /Paths to Paradise/. It's > short, sweet, and prescient. Gorz recognized that > environmental problems come from too much frenetic > economic activity and that we are spending too much of > our lives in alienating workplaces. He recommended a > lot more automation and a lot more sharing of wealth. > He has been a touchstone for me and others in the > Computing within LIMITS community (see > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://computingwithinlimits.org/2020/__;!!Mih3wA!UtFOcSllO7dGRfYbHuNeMxVljnXYVCEfGK5hqkSrLS5MwG8eX5dTTnbMKcjuMl0uomuLDA$ > > for all the papers going back to 2015). > > I think we absolutely have to address the big picture > and smaller efforts (like growing meat in labs and so > on) are not going to do much. > > The pandemic has shown Gorz to be right about the > environment -- I have been astonished at how quickly > air and water are clearing, how animals are > benefiting, etc. I didn't expect all that to happen so > fast. In the San Francisco Bay Area where I live, air > pollution is down 40%. There's lots of good media > reporting on these kinds of changes which are global. > > I think we must look to what CHAT has written about > personality. I have never really understood that work > but I sense that it's important. The culture now > produces neoliberal "entrepreneurs" with their > self-branding and paddle-your-own-canoe philosophies, > but other eras produced other types. I live in a > coastal town, and while the beach parking lots are > closed, the surfers, walkers, and cyclists are out > when they aren't normally out. They are probably > getting their work done virtually in less time than > normal (without a commute and the distractions of the > office), and doing what they love doing!? Maybe we > need a world of walkers and surfers -- that > personality type. I'd be happy if people were more > focused on knitting, and baking, and carpentry -- all > those homely ways of producing rather than working, > often for very little money, so they can buy > everything at the store. Most of it ends up in > landfills, by design, or, if it's food, it is so awful > it contributes to the chronic diseases. Or working > hard at high end jobs and ending up feeling one is > entitled to what one has (the Bay Area has been badly > affected by this) and that if you are poor it's kind > of your own fault. > > Yes, I recognize that staying home more has costs and > that we can't produce everything ourselves, but the > solution to the big picture is not to send everyone > off to the workplace for most of their lives but to > address issues of violence, production, quality of > life, and so on in direct ways. We can't rely on > by-products of our current work habits to stem > violence, for example. That is just not right. > > The post-growth movement in Europe is doing thoughtful > work, and I recommend what they write. They cite Gorz > (as well as Gandhi, Donella Meadows, and so on), and I > think they are on the right track. > > Best, > > - > > Bonnie > > > > > Bonnie Nardi > Professor (Emer.) > Department of Informatics > School of Information and Computer?Sciences > 5088 Bren Hall > UC Irvine 92697-3440 > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://darrouzet-nardi.net/bonnie__;!!Mih3wA!UtFOcSllO7dGRfYbHuNeMxVljnXYVCEfGK5hqkSrLS5MwG8eX5dTTnbMKcjuMl3r0ivsYQ$ > > NEW BOOK:?Heteromation and Other?Stories of Computing > and Capitalism?(with?Hamid Ekbia, MIT Press, 2017) > >> On Apr 16, 2020, at 11:14 AM, Julian Williams >> > > wrote: >> >> Mike, hi >> Surely not funny, of course. And we should have an >> even greater concern about India, where 1.4billion >> people are supposedly ?shut down? ( actually, many >> millions are walking hundreds of miles ?home? from >> the cities to their villages, wearing masks, but .. >> ?), and nationalist, anti-Muslim extremism - rampant >> before the crisis ? is growing: >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.democracynow.org/2020/4/16/arundhati_roy_coronavirus_india?utm_source=Democracy*Now*21&utm_campaign=5b85440b98-Daily_Digest_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_fa2346a853-5b85440b98-192514813__;KyU!!Mih3wA!UtFOcSllO7dGRfYbHuNeMxVljnXYVCEfGK5hqkSrLS5MwG8eX5dTTnbMKcjuMl06sz7tkg$ >> >> We can anticipate at least 40 million deaths in India >> ?if this gets going - ?and the fascists are planning >> to emerge dominant from this ? all encouraged by your >> big man in the WH. >> These deaths will perhaps make the holocaust seem >> like small fry ? will we ever see trials for crimes >> against humanity? Perhaps not, because it will be >> difficult to pin these deaths on to intentional >> action, but maybe there should be a crime for >> intentional inaction? The abject state of public >> health systems (long term) and the incompetence and >> political management (short term) being the main charges. >> Then in the US we can see some analyses of the way >> the deaths are hugely discriminatory against >> black/ethnic minorities and the poor: ?More than 70 >> per cent of COVID-19 deaths in the state of Louisiana >> were African-Americans, despite accounting for just a >> third of the general population. In New York City >> it's 17 per cent of deaths, for a 9 per cent share of >> residents.?https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-16/drum-covid-african-american-affected/12153268__;!!Mih3wA!UtFOcSllO7dGRfYbHuNeMxVljnXYVCEfGK5hqkSrLS5MwG8eX5dTTnbMKcjuMl35glZKuw$ >> ?Globally >> translated ? this will become a terrible indictment >> of the world?s structure of poverty: >> I had to pause the other day ? is this kind of >> admittedly political posting appropriate to xmca >> listserve?s concerns: I think that?s a question for >> xmca ? ?are we/is xmca relevant to the millions of >> deaths likely as the pandemic spreads to the poor >> nations?? The question is moot ? only you people out >> there can say, or do by saying. >> Julian >> PS It?s good that in some parts of the world this >> information is still getting out. The middle east, >> and Africa, in many parts, maybe is more difficult. >> *From:*> > on behalf >> of mike cole > >> *Reply-To:*"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" >> > > >> *Date:*Thursday, 16 April 2020 at 18:36 >> *To:*"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" >> > > >> *Subject:*[Xmca-l] Re: FW: Unbelievable: number 19th >> strain according to Fox News? >> There is absolutely nothing funny about the crypto >> fascists running this government, Julian. >> Trump is pushing towar monarchy in a fashion that >> might be funny if it were a Gilbert and Sullivan >> musical. >> mike >> On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 2:27 PM Julian Williams >> > > wrote: >>> Dear all, >>> Kellyanne*Conwa*y ? I think I heard her name a while >>> back ? what a Con, Ha ha? >>> But perhaps not so very funny, right? >>> God help us ? it all fits ? and now international >>> pandemic and the next step is to defenestrate our >>> only World Health Organisation? >>> I can?t see anything short of a massive rebellion >>> being an appropriate response? get those idiots out >>> of the white house? >>> Julian >>> >>> *Subject:*Fwd: Unbelievable >>> White House counselor Kellyanne Conway falsely >>> suggested Wednesday that there had been 18 previous >>> strains of the novel coronavirus as she defended >>> President Trump?s decision to suspend funding to the >>> World Health Organization. >>> "This is covid-19, not covid-1, folks, and so you >>> would think the people charged with the World Health >>> Organization facts and figures would be on top of >>> that,? Conway said during an interview on Fox News. >>> In fact, the ?19? at the end of the virus?s name >>> denotes that it was discovered in 2019, not that it >>> is the 19th strain of the virus. At its outset, it >>> was referred to by health officials as the ?2019 >>> novel coronavirus.? >> >> -- >>> the creation of utopias ? and their exhaustive >>> criticism ? is the proper and distinctive method of >>> sociology. H.G.Wells >> --------------------------------------------------- >> For archival resources relevant to the research of >> myself and other members of LCHC, visit >> lchc.ucsd.edu .? For archival >> materials and a narrative history of the research of >> LCHC, visitlchcautobio.ucsd.edu >> . > > > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!UtFOcSllO7dGRfYbHuNeMxVljnXYVCEfGK5hqkSrLS5MwG8eX5dTTnbMKcjuMl1VqHjCHQ$ > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!UtFOcSllO7dGRfYbHuNeMxVljnXYVCEfGK5hqkSrLS5MwG8eX5dTTnbMKcjuMl3fCybTNg$ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200417/04ad2244/attachment.html From ewall@umich.edu Thu Apr 16 22:45:42 2020 From: ewall@umich.edu (Edward Wall) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 00:45:42 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid 19: Getting the Name Right In-Reply-To: <7e8825d5-88dd-a6b5-90a5-f859be35d27f@marxists.org> References: <7e8825d5-88dd-a6b5-90a5-f859be35d27f@marxists.org> Message-ID: <1DD6CC80-2843-480C-B582-3BDEFE81993B@umich.edu> An article I read in National Geographic (around 2014) gave a quite different story as regard incubation. I assume you are referring to a somewhat more recent and trustworthy source? I?d appreciate the reference as I used to study the mathematics behind things of this sort. Ed Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is. > On Apr 16, 2020, at 9:54 PM, Andy Blunden wrote: > > Well, the Americans did pretty well in naming the flu pandemic which was incubated in a military camp in Kansas and taken across the Atlantic to Spain en route to the carnage in France, the "Spanish Flu." > > Andy > Andy Blunden > Hegel for Social Movements > Home Page > On 17/04/2020 8:21 am, Edward Wall wrote: >> If you?all want to get picky about names you might look here for some possibilities:. https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/types.html__;!!Mih3wA!VJe8iNpiYS-GdTkw-TMKylt3z7vs7LgTzdg4zDK6wtO0xDgPf9Bc_JSDyZTQtb8jnD-Zvg$ . >> >> In any case, I find the other name: SARS-CoV-2 far more informative, far more relevant, and far more disturbing as regards the situation at hand. >> >> Gadamer writes ?Thus a person who wants to understands must question what lies behind what is said. He must understand it as an answer to a question. If we go back behind what is said then we inevitably ask questions beyond what is said.? So, perhaps, I have problems with a thinking that believes it has landed on the ?correct? definition/answer (and all other thinkers are fools) as that may well entail, perhaps innocently, a curtailing of the crucial question. I find that the the answer 'COVID-19? obscures a lot (and, to be fair, does some illumination). >> >> Ed >> Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is. >> >>> On Apr 16, 2020, at 3:35 PM, David Kellogg > wrote: >>> >>> I won't pretend to you that this is on my night table. Someone recently sent me the following quote from Hegel: >>> >>> ?For although it is commonly said that reasonable men pay attention not to the word but to the thing itself, yet this does not give us permission to describe a thing in terms inappropriate to it. For this is at once incompetence and deceit, to fancy and to pretend that one merely has not the right word, and to hide from oneself that really one has failed to get hold of the thing itself, i.e. the Notion. If one had the Notion, then one would also have the right word.? (p.198) ? sec. 329 >>> >>> Vygotsky liked to quote Tolstoy: ????? ????? ?????? ??????, ????? ?????? ??????? (the word is nearly (!) always read when the concept is ready) but it seems to me that in this case he would have stressed the word "nearly". There was a long debate over what to call Covid 19 at the WHO, and many people (including Michael Lin at Stanford) opine that they got it wrong. >>> >>> I think that they got it right, but that it took a while. I don't think it is >>> non-argument to point out that repeated attempts to change the name to "Chinese virus" or the nineteenth iteration of Covid or whatever are also motivated and not in a good way. >>> >>> More importantly (because as Hegel says mere incompetence and transparent self-deceit are at stake in this instance) I think in most societies naming is a process--a child has different names at different times of life, and LSV is probaby wrong to treat naming as a single function of speech that is simply replaced by signifying and does not itself develop. >>> >>> What disturbs me about the Hegel quote (and LSV's obvious enthusiasm for it) is that it seems to suggest that everything has, in the final analysis, only one correct name. But perhaps it all depends on that final analysis. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> David Kellogg >>> Sangmyung University >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational action research' in Mind Culture and Activity >>> >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847__;!!Mih3wA!VJe8iNpiYS-GdTkw-TMKylt3z7vs7LgTzdg4zDK6wtO0xDgPf9Bc_JSDyZTQtb-TsGYUBA$ >>> >>> Some free e-prints available at: >>> >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080*10749039.2020.1745847__;Lw!!Mih3wA!VJe8iNpiYS-GdTkw-TMKylt3z7vs7LgTzdg4zDK6wtO0xDgPf9Bc_JSDyZTQtb_mzBzT9w$ >>> >>> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" >>> >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!VJe8iNpiYS-GdTkw-TMKylt3z7vs7LgTzdg4zDK6wtO0xDgPf9Bc_JSDyZTQtb9nuU6NZQ$ >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200417/5310a244/attachment.html From andyb@marxists.org Fri Apr 17 00:01:36 2020 From: andyb@marxists.org (Andy Blunden) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 17:01:36 +1000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid 19: Getting the Name Right In-Reply-To: <1DD6CC80-2843-480C-B582-3BDEFE81993B@umich.edu> References: <7e8825d5-88dd-a6b5-90a5-f859be35d27f@marxists.org> <1DD6CC80-2843-480C-B582-3BDEFE81993B@umich.edu> Message-ID: <709ecc53-7b65-348e-82dd-7af1080fd730@marxists.org> I read that in a book on the history of pandemics, about a decade ago. Can't remember the author. But I really hated what the author had to say about HIV, which he characterised as a "life-style" illness of homosexual men. So I checked his credentials with Prof. Short, an epidemiology expert at the University, who confirmed that the author was indeed authoritative, and it was unfortunate that his personal prejudices let him down when he came to HIV. So I took it that the Kansas story was legit. In any case, it was never anything to do with Spain. I see https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu*Hypotheses_about_the_source__;Iw!!Mih3wA!RVmjWrnqeBJAI3Z50ZvFTvUzhV5qGCVz7aRPbEzP-_dWzviP8MxkAPYK8Weo5MlThnCFEw$ has a number of hypotheses. Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ *Andy Blunden* Hegel for Social Movements Home Page On 17/04/2020 3:45 pm, Edward Wall wrote: > An article I read in National Geographic (around 2014) > gave a quite different story as regard incubation. I > assume you are referring to a somewhat more recent and > trustworthy source? I?d appreciate the reference as I used > to study the mathematics behind things of this sort. > > Ed > > Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he > is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him > for what he is. > >> On Apr 16, 2020, at ?9:54 PM, Andy Blunden >> > wrote: >> >> Well, the Americans did pretty well in naming the flu >> pandemic which was incubated in a military camp in Kansas >> and taken across the Atlantic to Spain en route to the >> carnage in France, the "Spanish Flu." >> >> Andy >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> *Andy Blunden* >> Hegel for Social Movements >> >> Home Page >> >> >> On 17/04/2020 8:21 am, Edward Wall wrote: >>> ? ? ? If you?all want to get picky about names you might >>> look here for some possibilities:. >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/types.html__;!!Mih3wA!RVmjWrnqeBJAI3Z50ZvFTvUzhV5qGCVz7aRPbEzP-_dWzviP8MxkAPYK8Weo5MlrP_yz1A$ >>> . >>> >>> >>> ? ? ? In any case, I find the other name: SARS-CoV-2 >>> ?far >>> more informative, far more relevant, and far more >>> disturbing as regards the situation at hand. >>> >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? Gadamer writes ?Thus a person who wants to >>> understands must question what lies behind what is said. >>> He must understand it as an answer to a question. If we >>> go back behind what is said then we inevitably ask >>> questions beyond what is said.? So, perhaps, I have >>> problems with a thinking that believes it has landed on >>> the ?correct? definition/answer (and all other thinkers >>> are fools) as that may well entail, perhaps innocently, >>> a curtailing of the crucial question. I find that the >>> the answer 'COVID-19? obscures a lot (and, to be fair, >>> does some illumination). >>> >>> Ed >>> Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what >>> he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console >>> him for what he is. >>> >>>> On Apr 16, 2020, at ?3:35 PM, David Kellogg >>>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> I?won't pretend to you that this is on my night table. >>>> Someone recently sent me the following quote from Hegel: >>>> >>>> ?For although it is commonly said that reasonable men >>>> pay attention not to the word but to the thing itself, >>>> yet this does not give us permission to describe a >>>> thing in terms inappropriate to it. For this is at once >>>> incompetence and deceit, to fancy and to pretend that >>>> one merely has not the right /word/, and to hide from >>>> oneself that really one has failed to get hold of the >>>> thing itself, i.e. the Notion. If one had the Notion, >>>> then one would also have the right word.? (p.198) ? >>>> sec. 329 >>>> >>>> Vygotsky liked to quote Tolstoy: ????? ????? ?????? >>>> ??????, ????? ?????? ??????? (the word is nearly (!) >>>> always read when the concept is ready) but it seems to >>>> me that in this case he would have stressed the word >>>> "nearly". There was a long debate over what to call >>>> Covid 19 at the WHO, and many people (including Michael >>>> Lin at Stanford) opine that they got it wrong. >>>> >>>> I?think that they got it right, but that it took a >>>> while. I don't think it is >>>> non-argument to point out that repeated attempts to >>>> change the name to "Chinese virus" or the nineteenth >>>> iteration of Covid or whatever are also motivated and >>>> not in a good way. >>>> >>>> More importantly (because as Hegel says mere >>>> incompetence and transparent self-deceit are?at stake >>>> in this instance) I think in most societies naming is a >>>> process--a child has different names at different times >>>> of life, and LSV is probaby wrong to treat naming as a >>>> single function of speech that is simply replaced by >>>> signifying and does not itself develop. >>>> >>>> What disturbs me about the Hegel quote (and LSV's >>>> obvious enthusiasm for it)?is that it seems to suggest >>>> that everything has, in the final analysis, only one >>>> correct name.?But perhaps it all depends on that final >>>> analysis. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> David Kellogg >>>> Sangmyung University >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical >>>> perusal of/Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and >>>> Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational action >>>> research'? in/Mind Culture and Activity// >>>> >>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847__;!!Mih3wA!RVmjWrnqeBJAI3Z50ZvFTvUzhV5qGCVz7aRPbEzP-_dWzviP8MxkAPYK8Weo5Mk4aUPlKQ$ >>>> >>>> / >>>> / >>>> Some free e-prints available at: >>>> >>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080*10749039.2020.1745847__;Lw!!Mih3wA!RVmjWrnqeBJAI3Z50ZvFTvUzhV5qGCVz7aRPbEzP-_dWzviP8MxkAPYK8Weo5Mld2AlP_A$ >>>> >>>> >>>> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's >>>> Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" >>>> >>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!RVmjWrnqeBJAI3Z50ZvFTvUzhV5qGCVz7aRPbEzP-_dWzviP8MxkAPYK8Weo5Mnk4mljcQ$ >>>> >>>> >>> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200417/e57affe7/attachment-0001.html From julie.waddington@udg.edu Fri Apr 17 02:42:57 2020 From: julie.waddington@udg.edu (JULIE WADDINGTON) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 09:42:57 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid 19: Getting the Name Right In-Reply-To: <709ecc53-7b65-348e-82dd-7af1080fd730@marxists.org> References: <7e8825d5-88dd-a6b5-90a5-f859be35d27f@marxists.org> <1DD6CC80-2843-480C-B582-3BDEFE81993B@umich.edu>, <709ecc53-7b65-348e-82dd-7af1080fd730@marxists.org> Message-ID: Dear all, I haven't checked in yet because I've been busy just coping, but I have appreciated some of your reflections. Regarding the flu pandemic of the early 20th century (during World War I), its naming seems to have been related to media censorship. The 'great' powers tried to minimise reporting of it (sound familiar?) and pumped money into campaigns to keep spirits up (that rings bells too). Why Spanish? Because Spain was neutral and therefore censors were not headbent on keeping the population calm and focused on fighting the war, as in other countries. Media reporting (including reports on the King who almost died from the flu) could therefore have given the impression that incidence was higher in Spain. Or, as others claim, the naming comes from the fact that news on it came from Spain; like naming a deathly comet after the scientist who detects it and writes about it. I didn't have a clue about all this till the other day when I listened to a documentary on it. What strikes me as particularly worrying (but not surprising) are the resemblances between the censorship/jingoism of then and what's happening now. Take care everyone, julie ________________________________ De: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] en nom de Andy Blunden [andyb@marxists.org] Enviat el: divendres, 17 / abril / 2020 09:01 Per a: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu Tema: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid 19: Getting the Name Right I read that in a book on the history of pandemics, about a decade ago. Can't remember the author. But I really hated what the author had to say about HIV, which he characterised as a "life-style" illness of homosexual men. So I checked his credentials with Prof. Short, an epidemiology expert at the University, who confirmed that the author was indeed authoritative, and it was unfortunate that his personal prejudices let him down when he came to HIV. So I took it that the Kansas story was legit. In any case, it was never anything to do with Spain. I see https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu*Hypotheses_about_the_source__;Iw!!Mih3wA!XZBOM3Gmr03DJy3usmZJNWi8MDE4L9VBLyx_ikGL4T__dQbqiKa1Ls41UovkTXxna1PIvw$ has a number of hypotheses. Andy ________________________________ Andy Blunden Hegel for Social Movements Home Page On 17/04/2020 3:45 pm, Edward Wall wrote: An article I read in National Geographic (around 2014) gave a quite different story as regard incubation. I assume you are referring to a somewhat more recent and trustworthy source? I?d appreciate the reference as I used to study the mathematics behind things of this sort. Ed Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is. On Apr 16, 2020, at 9:54 PM, Andy Blunden > wrote: Well, the Americans did pretty well in naming the flu pandemic which was incubated in a military camp in Kansas and taken across the Atlantic to Spain en route to the carnage in France, the "Spanish Flu." Andy ________________________________ Andy Blunden Hegel for Social Movements Home Page On 17/04/2020 8:21 am, Edward Wall wrote: If you?all want to get picky about names you might look here for some possibilities:. https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/types.html__;!!Mih3wA!XZBOM3Gmr03DJy3usmZJNWi8MDE4L9VBLyx_ikGL4T__dQbqiKa1Ls41UovkTXx8vO7wAQ$ . In any case, I find the other name: SARS-CoV-2 far more informative, far more relevant, and far more disturbing as regards the situation at hand. Gadamer writes ?Thus a person who wants to understands must question what lies behind what is said. He must understand it as an answer to a question. If we go back behind what is said then we inevitably ask questions beyond what is said.? So, perhaps, I have problems with a thinking that believes it has landed on the ?correct? definition/answer (and all other thinkers are fools) as that may well entail, perhaps innocently, a curtailing of the crucial question. I find that the the answer 'COVID-19? obscures a lot (and, to be fair, does some illumination). Ed Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is. On Apr 16, 2020, at 3:35 PM, David Kellogg > wrote: I won't pretend to you that this is on my night table. Someone recently sent me the following quote from Hegel: ?For although it is commonly said that reasonable men pay attention not to the word but to the thing itself, yet this does not give us permission to describe a thing in terms inappropriate to it. For this is at once incompetence and deceit, to fancy and to pretend that one merely has not the right word, and to hide from oneself that really one has failed to get hold of the thing itself, i.e. the Notion. If one had the Notion, then one would also have the right word.? (p.198) ? sec. 329 Vygotsky liked to quote Tolstoy: ????? ????? ?????? ??????, ????? ?????? ??????? (the word is nearly (!) always read when the concept is ready) but it seems to me that in this case he would have stressed the word "nearly". There was a long debate over what to call Covid 19 at the WHO, and many people (including Michael Lin at Stanford) opine that they got it wrong. I think that they got it right, but that it took a while. I don't think it is non-argument to point out that repeated attempts to change the name to "Chinese virus" or the nineteenth iteration of Covid or whatever are also motivated and not in a good way. More importantly (because as Hegel says mere incompetence and transparent self-deceit are at stake in this instance) I think in most societies naming is a process--a child has different names at different times of life, and LSV is probaby wrong to treat naming as a single function of speech that is simply replaced by signifying and does not itself develop. What disturbs me about the Hegel quote (and LSV's obvious enthusiasm for it) is that it seems to suggest that everything has, in the final analysis, only one correct name. But perhaps it all depends on that final analysis. David Kellogg Sangmyung University Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational action research' in Mind Culture and Activity https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847__;!!Mih3wA!XZBOM3Gmr03DJy3usmZJNWi8MDE4L9VBLyx_ikGL4T__dQbqiKa1Ls41UovkTXzFb8WqcA$ Some free e-prints available at: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080*10749039.2020.1745847__;Lw!!Mih3wA!XZBOM3Gmr03DJy3usmZJNWi8MDE4L9VBLyx_ikGL4T__dQbqiKa1Ls41UovkTXyyIGL5_g$ New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!XZBOM3Gmr03DJy3usmZJNWi8MDE4L9VBLyx_ikGL4T__dQbqiKa1Ls41UovkTXwSKUhTUg$ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200417/8e7d76bf/attachment.html From leifstrandberg.ab@telia.com Fri Apr 17 07:27:05 2020 From: leifstrandberg.ab@telia.com (Leif Strandberg) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 16:27:05 +0200 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid 19: Getting the Name Right In-Reply-To: References: <7e8825d5-88dd-a6b5-90a5-f859be35d27f@marxists.org> <1DD6CC80-2843-480C-B582-3BDEFE81993B@umich.edu> <709ecc53-7b65-348e-82dd-7af1080fd730@marxists.org> Message-ID: In Sweden, this flu is referred to as Spanish Disease or only ?The Spanish?. The northernmost parts of Sweden (around the Arctic Circle) suffered the worst. . A large winter market is said to be the infection source and a lack of healthcare. A lot of young people died, esp. young men who were called into military service (Sweden, like Spain, was neutral in this war). In today's Corona times, much is written about the Spanish disease. Leif Strandberg Sweden Fr?n: on behalf of JULIE WADDINGTON Svara till: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Datum: fredag 17 april 2020 11:42 Till: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" ?mne: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid 19: Getting the Name Right Dear all, I haven't checked in yet because I've been busy just coping, but I have appreciated some of your reflections. Regarding the flu pandemic of the early 20th century (during World War I), its naming seems to have been related to media censorship. The 'great' powers tried to minimise reporting of it (sound familiar?) and pumped money into campaigns to keep spirits up (that rings bells too). Why Spanish? Because Spain was neutral and therefore censors were not headbent on keeping the population calm and focused on fighting the war, as in other countries. Media reporting (including reports on the King who almost died from the flu) could therefore have given the impression that incidence was higher in Spain. Or, as others claim, the naming comes from the fact that news on it came from Spain; like naming a deathly comet after the scientist who detects it and writes about it. I didn't have a clue about all this till the other day when I listened to a documentary on it. What strikes me as particularly worrying (but not surprising) are the resemblances between the censorship/jingoism of then and what's happening now. Take care everyone, julie De: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] en nom de Andy Blunden [andyb@marxists.org] Enviat el: divendres, 17 / abril / 2020 09:01 Per a: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu Tema: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid 19: Getting the Name Right I read that in a book on the history of pandemics, about a decade ago. Can't remember the author. But I really hated what the author had to say about HIV, which he characterised as a "life-style" illness of homosexual men. So I checked his credentials with Prof. Short, an epidemiology expert at the University, who confirmed that the author was indeed authoritative, and it was unfortunate that his personal prejudices let him down when he came to HIV. So I took it that the Kansas story was legit. In any case, it was never anything to do with Spain. I see https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu*Hypotheses_about_the_source__;Iw!!Mih3wA!VAjnmwyXpGWMIoW8NDZ7kLmwjr4WafCMGPUUnEI85hfVCwOWYDMD5p-Y-Fubw1nRHpfGRw$ has a number of hypotheses. Andy Andy Blunden Hegel for Social Movements Home Page On 17/04/2020 3:45 pm, Edward Wall wrote: > An article I read in National Geographic (around 2014) gave a quite different > story as regard incubation. I assume you are referring to a somewhat more > recent and trustworthy source? I?d appreciate the reference as I used to study > the mathematics behind things of this sort. > > Ed > > Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense > of humor was provided to console him for what he is. > >> On Apr 16, 2020, at 9:54 PM, Andy Blunden wrote: >> >> Well, the Americans did pretty well in naming the flu pandemic which was >> incubated in a military camp in Kansas and taken across the Atlantic to Spain >> en route to the carnage in France, the "Spanish Flu." >> >> Andy >> >> Andy Blunden >> Hegel for Social Movements >> > dkQgveBxmpghUoOmf7xks2JBWnLppU0ECMuZC0NNuLIi0R5MGMZdiJsQ85FPM0KExfeg$> >> Home Page >> > tm__;!!Mih3wA!WkdkQgveBxmpghUoOmf7xks2JBWnLppU0ECMuZC0NNuLIi0R5MGMZdiJsQ85FPP >> DBSRIdQ$> >> On 17/04/2020 8:21 am, Edward Wall wrote: >>> If you?all want to get picky about names you might look here for some >>> possibilities:. https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/types.html__;!!Mih3wA!VAjnmwyXpGWMIoW8NDZ7kLmwjr4WafCMGPUUnEI85hfVCwOWYDMD5p-Y-Fubw1n3yYexxQ$ >>> >> Mih3wA!QDqoHKfN9rsIen0hktwg62vWF_Zg0RnuNDpr6G3EFD42Kj1NDYzm2T7NEly6rlqhG6ZKw >>> Q$> . >>> >>> In any case, I find the other name: SARS-CoV-2 >>> >> .html__;!!Mih3wA!QDqoHKfN9rsIen0hktwg62vWF_Zg0RnuNDpr6G3EFD42Kj1NDYzm2T7NEly >>> 6rlqWKjRnFQ$> far more informative, far more relevant, and far more >>> disturbing as regards the situation at hand. >>> >>> Gadamer writes ?Thus a person who wants to understands must >>> question what lies behind what is said. He must understand it as an answer >>> to a question. If we go back behind what is said then we inevitably ask >>> questions beyond what is said.? So, perhaps, I have problems with a thinking >>> that believes it has landed on the ?correct? definition/answer (and all >>> other thinkers are fools) as that may well entail, perhaps innocently, a >>> curtailing of the crucial question. I find that the the answer 'COVID-19? >>> obscures a lot (and, to be fair, does some illumination). >>> >>> Ed >>> Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a >>> sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is. >>> >>>> On Apr 16, 2020, at 3:35 PM, David Kellogg wrote: >>>> >>>> I won't pretend to you that this is on my night table. Someone recently >>>> sent me the following quote from Hegel: >>>> >>>> ?For although it is commonly said that reasonable men pay attention not to >>>> the word but to the thing itself, yet this does not give us permission to >>>> describe a thing in terms inappropriate to it. For this is at once >>>> incompetence and deceit, to fancy and to pretend that one merely has not >>>> the right word, and to hide from oneself that really one has failed to get >>>> hold of the thing itself, i.e. the Notion. If one had the Notion, then one >>>> would also have the right word.? (p.198) ? sec. 329 >>>> >>>> Vygotsky liked to quote Tolstoy: ????? ????? ?????? ??????, ????? ?????? >>>> ??????? (the word is nearly (!) always read when the concept is ready) but >>>> it seems to me that in this case he would have stressed the word "nearly". >>>> There was a long debate over what to call Covid 19 at the WHO, and many >>>> people (including Michael Lin at Stanford) opine that they got it wrong. >>>> >>>> I think that they got it right, but that it took a while. I don't think it >>>> is >>>> non-argument to point out that repeated attempts to change the name to >>>> "Chinese virus" or the nineteenth iteration of Covid or whatever are also >>>> motivated and not in a good way. >>>> >>>> More importantly (because as Hegel says mere incompetence and transparent >>>> self-deceit are at stake in this instance) I think in most societies naming >>>> is a process--a child has different names at different times of life, and >>>> LSV is probaby wrong to treat naming as a single function of speech that is >>>> simply replaced by signifying and does not itself develop. >>>> >>>> What disturbs me about the Hegel quote (and LSV's obvious enthusiasm for >>>> it) is that it seems to suggest that everything has, in the final analysis, >>>> only one correct name. But perhaps it all depends on that final analysis. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> David Kellogg >>>> Sangmyung University >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of Critical >>>> Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational >>>> action research' in Mind Culture and Activity >>>> >>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847__;!!Mih3wA!VAjnmwyXpGWMIoW8NDZ7kLmwjr4WafCMGPUUnEI85hfVCwOWYDMD5p-Y-Fubw1ltwsqSWA$ >>>> >>> 0749039.2020.1745847__;!!Mih3wA!RxSyHRy22kiqZQHwsKuP3HGFuU9O2uo9DyVwSIIsNFf >>>> E0O3RpibgknJS735vbN8JpRvTyw$> >>>> >>>> Some free e-prints available at: >>>> >>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080__;!!Mih3wA!VAjnmwyXpGWMIoW8NDZ7kLmwjr4WafCMGPUUnEI85hfVCwOWYDMD5p-Y-Fubw1nT9y85QA$ >>>> /10749039.2020.1745847 >>>> >>> MM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080*10749039.2020.1745847__;Lw!!Mih3wA!RxSyHRy22k >>>> iqZQHwsKuP3HGFuU9O2uo9DyVwSIIsNFfE0O3RpibgknJS735vbN8Ro16M0A$> >>>> >>>> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works >>>> Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" >>>> >>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!VAjnmwyXpGWMIoW8NDZ7kLmwjr4WafCMGPUUnEI85hfVCwOWYDMD5p-Y-Fubw1k82QbfVA$ >>>> >>> __;!!Mih3wA!RxSyHRy22kiqZQHwsKuP3HGFuU9O2uo9DyVwSIIsNFfE0O3RpibgknJS735vbN- >>>> 3hPm_Zw$> >>>> >>> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200417/0fb67bc5/attachment.html From mpacker@cantab.net Fri Apr 17 10:17:04 2020 From: mpacker@cantab.net (Martin Packer) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 12:17:04 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: Researcher help during Covid-19 References: Message-ID: <3E9953F3-4530-47A8-B352-ED8A7911F6E6@cantab.net> > Begin forwarded message: > > From: Cultural Evolution Society > Subject: Researcher help during Covid-19 > Date: April 17, 2020 at 7:39:59 AM GMT-5 > To: > Reply-To: > > View this email in your browser > > A call to researchers to help small-scale communities facing coronavirus > > This message is sent on behalf of the organising committees of the Cultural Evolution Society (CES), European Human Behaviour and Evolution Association (EHBEA) and Evolutionary Anthropology Society (EAS). > > > We request researchers working among small-scale societies, particularly remote communities, provide information about the coronavirus global pandemic to the communities with whom they work and offer any help they can. Such communities may lack access to both information and medical facilities, and contain many elderly people living in close proximity to others. > > > We are not suggesting that researchers physically visit the communities with whom they work, given the risk of spreading the virus. However, we encourage you to explain to your communities, via SMS, phone or other means, what the disease is, how it is transmitted, and its key characteristics, for example that it disproportionately affects older people and that children can be silent carriers. This should allow communities to think about how they can organise themselves within their particular contexts during the epidemic. Official do / don't lists may be geared towards urban populations and may not always be relevant to these communities. Therefore, if people understand the symptoms, transmission and features of the disease then they can adapt based on their context. In addition, researchers may be able to help identify hurdles communities may face in their specific ecological and social contexts (e.g. transmission from shared handpumps and well buckets; absence of soap), and offer potential solutions. > > > To aid in this effort, some of our members have put together information sheets describing how they have communicated information about coronavirus to their communities within their ecological and social context. These can be found here on the CES?website . If you are a researcher and would like to contribute an information sheet you have used in your community to put up on this site, please email Alex Mesoudi (a.mesoudi@exeter.ac.uk ). > > > We have also created an editable Excel sheet where researchers can identify issues faced by their communities and leave questions for other researchers. This will help to share information/ideas on how these problems are being dealt with in different parts of the world. If you would like to contribute to this sheet, please email Lotty Brand (c.brand@exeter.ac.uk ). > > Note from the CES Exec: We are tremendously grateful to our members who have been so proactive putting materials together and acting as contact points. Thank you all, but especially Shakti Lamba, Alex Mesoudi, Monique Borgerhoff Mulder, and Lottie Brand. > > We hope you all keep well, > Fiona Jordan, Secretary > on behalf of the CES Executive > > > > > Copyright ? 2020 Cultural Evolution Society, All rights reserved. > You are receiving this email because you opted in via our website. > > Our mailing address is: > Cultural Evolution Society > 43 Woodland Rd > Anthropology, University of Bristol > Bristol, BS8 1UU > United Kingdom > > Add us to your address book > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200417/7da08439/attachment.html From helenaworthen@gmail.com Fri Apr 17 11:22:05 2020 From: helenaworthen@gmail.com (Helena Worthen) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 11:22:05 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News? In-Reply-To: <214e3641-2bec-1c2a-8bf1-55b7c5473a00@marxists.org> References: <67D4C8C6-80FE-4A0B-9D32-34AE80FFF490@manchester.ac.uk> <214e3641-2bec-1c2a-8bf1-55b7c5473a00@marxists.org> Message-ID: <17ED215F-8082-4F16-ABAB-CF3AEA29E6D7@gmail.com> Here?s a pretty clear picture of what the path to getting Sanders supporters to work for Biden looks like. She?s got a gift for making clear statements about national policy in a way that helps people feel they get it. (Of course, this is a gift that the conservative mouthpieces have too. I guess it?s rare on the left.) >From The New York Times: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Has Never Spoken to Joe Biden. Here?s What She Would Say. https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/13/us/politics/aoc-progressives-joe-biden.html?smid=em-share__;!!Mih3wA!UUc0BB8FGEiGElXrYXAre24Ex2ltTzvaKSTyi13gKxjjH4oN5PxbfuEsGB9q1SqXWNOC_A$ Helena Worthen hworthen@illinois.edu Helena Worthen h elenaworthen@gmail.com > On Apr 16, 2020, at 9:44 PM, Andy Blunden wrote: > > I think the mid-20th century Freudians amply demonstrated that the concepts of personal development can shed light on societal phenomena. Only a pity that they had such a limited theory of personality. > Ordinary, uneducated people are sometimes derided for voting on personality, but given that the information and ability to make rational judgments on matters of national policy is given to very few, it is absolutely rational for people to pick their leaders and representatives on the basis of how they perceive the personality of the candidates. The result is of course that national leaders often turn out as kind of caricatures of national personalities. Trump and Boris Johnson are examples. It is a matter of deep concern of course that tens of millions of Americans looked at Trump and thought, "Now, he's my kinda guy," and likewise tens of millions of English looked at Boris Johnson thought "Now there's a fellow who I can trust!" And it brings me no joy to recall that millions of Australians looked at Scott Morrison, the "daggy Dad" of politics, and thought: "I think he's the safest bet in these times." We need to bring decision making closer to home. Otherwise people think in what Vygotsky called "diverse concepts." > > And Greg, we are all experiencing the same pandemic, even though we're experiencing it differently, and it will be those differences which will be important engines of change in the years ahead. > > Andy > Andy Blunden > Hegel for Social Movements > Home Page > On 17/04/2020 1:47 pm, Greg Thompson wrote: >> Bonnie, >> >> I like your suggestions very much (I finally got to read them just now since they didn't come through to my email at first). >> >> I find your suggestion about CHAT approaches to personality to be particularly interesting (as long as we place it in a Marxian lineage rather than a lineage of Western personality psychology - I assume that the former is at least close to what you meant?). How personalities (perhaps "personas"?) can emerge in different times and given different relations to production (and in different regimes of production). To your description of neoliberal entrepreneurs, I would add the anxiety that has become oh so commonplace - anxious, always anxious - about everything from grades to test scores to post-collegiate jobs (think about facing that right now). Psycho-precarity is a constant state of existence for these budding neoliberal "entrepreneurs". So yes, by all means, surfer personalities would be a nice corrective. And skateboarder personalities. And punks. And knitters (that's so punk!). and bakers, and carpenters, and so on. >> >> [Let me know if I'm off here but it sounded like you were flagging a classically (sorry I'm not using this as a term of art - I'm not that sophisticated!) Marxist concern with consciousness and the ways that consciousness is mediated by our relation to the means of production. And then also a more specific concern with the idea of false consciousness that develops from that.] >> >> Also, I wonder if you would agree with me (and, by my reading, Marx) that neoliberalism (capitalism) is also what brings us together? The global flows that have been enabled by neoliberalism are yes quite bad in the sense that they made the spread of this virus possible. But these flows also mean that we are coming close to what Andy has called a world-perezhivanie - an experience the world over of something close to the "same" thing (even if there are massive inequalities in terms of death and infection that will follow the massive inequalities set up by neoliberalism). Perhaps this is a morbid thought, but might this be an opportunity for beginning to realize a kind of global community that Marx imagined? And yes, I agree, I find it hard to be hopeful about this possibility (my mind goes straight to imagining us Americans gawking at the death tolls in other countries - partly elated that we didn't post the worst numbers of infections and deaths (as we are right now) and partly glad that it isn't happening here and partly ignorant/uncaring about the suffering of others when life remains good here). >> >> -greg >> >> >> On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 6:46 PM Bonnie Nardi > wrote: >> Watching the debacle of Trump reveals, to me at least, how important class analysis is. Trump is deranged, and his everyday actions fall completely outside all social norms of decency, yet he is consistently supported by (1) his Republican cohorts, (2) big business (Bill Gates: ?I don?t rule out voting for Trump if I have to pay too much in taxes??) and (3) the alienated/uneducated class who?d rather at least have the fun of throwing a brick through the window than put up with any more PC bs (or abortion rights or separation of church and state). A potent and scary mix. The "complicity" Greg mentioned has several sources, all class-based in my view, but oddly variable. >> >> Trump is a symptom of a society running off the rails. He could not have come to power had not the underlying conditions been ripe for it. He wasn?t the lesser of two evils for many voters ? he was finally someone who they thought spoke for them whether they occupied corporate boardrooms or NASCAR bleachers or evangelical pews. Europe is also producing fascist-leaning leaders and other places have them firmly ensconced. >> >> It?s damn weird to me that we?ve gone, in my lifetime, from U.S. leadership in gay rights, civil rights, disability rights, and environmentalism, to the current horrendous situation. (Europe has implemented better environmental policies but the groundwork was laid in the U.S.) I love the U.S. the way a parent still loves a teenager gone bad, but that?s beside the point, this is now global, as Julian points out. We are all in this together. Neoliberalism deftly divides us (I see it, e.g., in the virus discussions about how old people, are, let?s face it, expendable, and we worry too much about them -- the young need to get back to work, etc. There?s as much of this on reddit as there is from Republicans.) >> >> What to do? The first thing is to rethink what a society can and should be. As part of this exercise I recommend Andre Gorz's Paths to Paradise. It's short, sweet, and prescient. Gorz recognized that environmental problems come from too much frenetic economic activity and that we are spending too much of our lives in alienating workplaces. He recommended a lot more automation and a lot more sharing of wealth. He has been a touchstone for me and others in the Computing within LIMITS community (see https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://computingwithinlimits.org/2020/__;!!Mih3wA!UUc0BB8FGEiGElXrYXAre24Ex2ltTzvaKSTyi13gKxjjH4oN5PxbfuEsGB9q1SozrirvXg$ for all the papers going back to 2015). >> >> I think we absolutely have to address the big picture and smaller efforts (like growing meat in labs and so on) are not going to do much. >> >> The pandemic has shown Gorz to be right about the environment -- I have been astonished at how quickly air and water are clearing, how animals are benefiting, etc. I didn't expect all that to happen so fast. In the San Francisco Bay Area where I live, air pollution is down 40%. There's lots of good media reporting on these kinds of changes which are global. >> >> I think we must look to what CHAT has written about personality. I have never really understood that work but I sense that it's important. The culture now produces neoliberal "entrepreneurs" with their self-branding and paddle-your-own-canoe philosophies, but other eras produced other types. I live in a coastal town, and while the beach parking lots are closed, the surfers, walkers, and cyclists are out when they aren't normally out. They are probably getting their work done virtually in less time than normal (without a commute and the distractions of the office), and doing what they love doing! Maybe we need a world of walkers and surfers -- that personality type. I'd be happy if people were more focused on knitting, and baking, and carpentry -- all those homely ways of producing rather than working, often for very little money, so they can buy everything at the store. Most of it ends up in landfills, by design, or, if it's food, it is so awful it contributes to the chronic diseases. Or working hard at high end jobs and ending up feeling one is entitled to what one has (the Bay Area has been badly affected by this) and that if you are poor it's kind of your own fault. >> >> Yes, I recognize that staying home more has costs and that we can't produce everything ourselves, but the solution to the big picture is not to send everyone off to the workplace for most of their lives but to address issues of violence, production, quality of life, and so on in direct ways. We can't rely on by-products of our current work habits to stem violence, for example. That is just not right. >> >> The post-growth movement in Europe is doing thoughtful work, and I recommend what they write. They cite Gorz (as well as Gandhi, Donella Meadows, and so on), and I think they are on the right track. >> >> Best, >> >> - >> >> Bonnie >> >> >> >> >> Bonnie Nardi >> Professor (Emer.) >> Department of Informatics >> School of Information and Computer Sciences >> 5088 Bren Hall >> UC Irvine 92697-3440 >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://darrouzet-nardi.net/bonnie__;!!Mih3wA!UUc0BB8FGEiGElXrYXAre24Ex2ltTzvaKSTyi13gKxjjH4oN5PxbfuEsGB9q1SonXdSaKg$ >> NEW BOOK: Heteromation and Other Stories of Computing and Capitalism (with Hamid Ekbia, MIT Press, 2017) >> >>> On Apr 16, 2020, at 11:14 AM, Julian Williams > wrote: >>> >>> Mike, hi >>> >>> Surely not funny, of course. And we should have an even greater concern about India, where 1.4billion people are supposedly ?shut down? ( actually, many millions are walking hundreds of miles ?home? from the cities to their villages, wearing masks, but .. ), and nationalist, anti-Muslim extremism - rampant before the crisis ? is growing: >>> >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.democracynow.org/2020/4/16/arundhati_roy_coronavirus_india?utm_source=Democracy*Now*21&utm_campaign=5b85440b98-Daily_Digest_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_fa2346a853-5b85440b98-192514813__;KyU!!Mih3wA!UUc0BB8FGEiGElXrYXAre24Ex2ltTzvaKSTyi13gKxjjH4oN5PxbfuEsGB9q1SoegsbXfA$ >>> >>> We can anticipate at least 40 million deaths in India if this gets going - and the fascists are planning to emerge dominant from this ? all encouraged by your big man in the WH. >>> >>> These deaths will perhaps make the holocaust seem like small fry ? will we ever see trials for crimes against humanity? Perhaps not, because it will be difficult to pin these deaths on to intentional action, but maybe there should be a crime for intentional inaction? The abject state of public health systems (long term) and the incompetence and political management (short term) being the main charges. >>> >>> Then in the US we can see some analyses of the way the deaths are hugely discriminatory against black/ethnic minorities and the poor: ?More than 70 per cent of COVID-19 deaths in the state of Louisiana were African-Americans, despite accounting for just a third of the general population. In New York City it's 17 per cent of deaths, for a 9 per cent share of residents.?https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-16/drum-covid-african-american-affected/12153268__;!!Mih3wA!UUc0BB8FGEiGElXrYXAre24Ex2ltTzvaKSTyi13gKxjjH4oN5PxbfuEsGB9q1SonIl1MmQ$ Globally translated ? this will become a terrible indictment of the world?s structure of poverty: >>> >>> I had to pause the other day ? is this kind of admittedly political posting appropriate to xmca listserve?s concerns: I think that?s a question for xmca ? ?are we/is xmca relevant to the millions of deaths likely as the pandemic spreads to the poor nations?? The question is moot ? only you people out there can say, or do by saying. >>> >>> Julian >>> >>> PS It?s good that in some parts of the world this information is still getting out. The middle east, and Africa, in many parts, maybe is more difficult. >>> >>> From: > on behalf of mike cole > >>> Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > >>> Date: Thursday, 16 April 2020 at 18:36 >>> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: FW: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News? >>> >>> There is absolutely nothing funny about the crypto fascists running this government, Julian. >>> Trump is pushing towar monarchy in a fashion that might be funny if it were a Gilbert and Sullivan >>> musical. >>> mike >>> >>> On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 2:27 PM Julian Williams > wrote: >>>> Dear all, >>>> >>>> Kellyanne Conway ? I think I heard her name a while back ? what a Con, Ha ha? >>>> >>>> But perhaps not so very funny, right? >>>> >>>> God help us ? it all fits ? and now international pandemic and the next step is to defenestrate our only World Health Organisation? >>>> >>>> I can?t see anything short of a massive rebellion being an appropriate response? get those idiots out of the white house? >>>> >>>> Julian >>>> >>>> >>>> Subject: Fwd: Unbelievable >>>> >>>> White House counselor Kellyanne Conway falsely suggested Wednesday that there had been 18 previous strains of the novel coronavirus as she defended President Trump?s decision to suspend funding to the World Health Organization. >>>> >>>> "This is covid-19, not covid-1, folks, and so you would think the people charged with the World Health Organization facts and figures would be on top of that,? Conway said during an interview on Fox News. >>>> >>>> In fact, the ?19? at the end of the virus?s name denotes that it was discovered in 2019, not that it is the 19th strain of the virus. At its outset, it was referred to by health officials as the ?2019 novel coronavirus.? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>>> the creation of utopias ? and their exhaustive criticism ? is the proper and distinctive method of sociology. H.G.Wells >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------- >>> For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit >>> lchc.ucsd.edu . For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu . >> >> >> >> -- >> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >> Assistant Professor >> Department of Anthropology >> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >> Brigham Young University >> Provo, UT 84602 >> WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!UUc0BB8FGEiGElXrYXAre24Ex2ltTzvaKSTyi13gKxjjH4oN5PxbfuEsGB9q1SqtMH8nYA$ >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!UUc0BB8FGEiGElXrYXAre24Ex2ltTzvaKSTyi13gKxjjH4oN5PxbfuEsGB9q1SoS4tu1Eg$ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200417/fdd77fa7/attachment.html From ewall@umich.edu Fri Apr 17 11:23:23 2020 From: ewall@umich.edu (Edward Wall) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 13:23:23 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid 19: Getting the Name Right In-Reply-To: <709ecc53-7b65-348e-82dd-7af1080fd730@marxists.org> References: <7e8825d5-88dd-a6b5-90a5-f859be35d27f@marxists.org> <1DD6CC80-2843-480C-B582-3BDEFE81993B@umich.edu> <709ecc53-7b65-348e-82dd-7af1080fd730@marxists.org> Message-ID: Regrettably, personal prejudices tend to produce answers rather than questions. Of course, I speak only for myself. Ed Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is. > On Apr 17, 2020, at 2:01 AM, Andy Blunden wrote: > > I read that in a book on the history of pandemics, about a decade ago. Can't remember the author. But I really hated what the author had to say about HIV, which he characterised as a "life-style" illness of homosexual men. So I checked his credentials with Prof. Short, an epidemiology expert at the University, who confirmed that the author was indeed authoritative, and it was unfortunate that his personal prejudices let him down when he came to HIV. So I took it that the Kansas story was legit. In any case, it was never anything to do with Spain. > I see https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu*Hypotheses_about_the_source__;Iw!!Mih3wA!WDOlJqftycx1jh76D5UG9AXEQUtgoxqktFA5dBeOR2rdcCVa6e5ytxieRlsMNSSnD13ccg$ has a number of hypotheses. > Andy > Andy Blunden > Hegel for Social Movements > Home Page > On 17/04/2020 3:45 pm, Edward Wall wrote: >> An article I read in National Geographic (around 2014) gave a quite different story as regard incubation. I assume you are referring to a somewhat more recent and trustworthy source? I?d appreciate the reference as I used to study the mathematics behind things of this sort. >> >> Ed >> >> Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is. >> >>> On Apr 16, 2020, at 9:54 PM, Andy Blunden > wrote: >>> >>> Well, the Americans did pretty well in naming the flu pandemic which was incubated in a military camp in Kansas and taken across the Atlantic to Spain en route to the carnage in France, the "Spanish Flu." >>> >>> Andy >>> Andy Blunden >>> Hegel for Social Movements >>> Home Page >>> On 17/04/2020 8:21 am, Edward Wall wrote: >>>> If you?all want to get picky about names you might look here for some possibilities:. https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/types.html__;!!Mih3wA!WDOlJqftycx1jh76D5UG9AXEQUtgoxqktFA5dBeOR2rdcCVa6e5ytxieRlsMNSRbttfATA$ . >>>> >>>> In any case, I find the other name: SARS-CoV-2 far more informative, far more relevant, and far more disturbing as regards the situation at hand. >>>> >>>> Gadamer writes ?Thus a person who wants to understands must question what lies behind what is said. He must understand it as an answer to a question. If we go back behind what is said then we inevitably ask questions beyond what is said.? So, perhaps, I have problems with a thinking that believes it has landed on the ?correct? definition/answer (and all other thinkers are fools) as that may well entail, perhaps innocently, a curtailing of the crucial question. I find that the the answer 'COVID-19? obscures a lot (and, to be fair, does some illumination). >>>> >>>> Ed >>>> Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is. >>>> >>>>> On Apr 16, 2020, at 3:35 PM, David Kellogg > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I won't pretend to you that this is on my night table. Someone recently sent me the following quote from Hegel: >>>>> >>>>> ?For although it is commonly said that reasonable men pay attention not to the word but to the thing itself, yet this does not give us permission to describe a thing in terms inappropriate to it. For this is at once incompetence and deceit, to fancy and to pretend that one merely has not the right word, and to hide from oneself that really one has failed to get hold of the thing itself, i.e. the Notion. If one had the Notion, then one would also have the right word.? (p.198) ? sec. 329 >>>>> >>>>> Vygotsky liked to quote Tolstoy: ????? ????? ?????? ??????, ????? ?????? ??????? (the word is nearly (!) always read when the concept is ready) but it seems to me that in this case he would have stressed the word "nearly". There was a long debate over what to call Covid 19 at the WHO, and many people (including Michael Lin at Stanford) opine that they got it wrong. >>>>> >>>>> I think that they got it right, but that it took a while. I don't think it is >>>>> non-argument to point out that repeated attempts to change the name to "Chinese virus" or the nineteenth iteration of Covid or whatever are also motivated and not in a good way. >>>>> >>>>> More importantly (because as Hegel says mere incompetence and transparent self-deceit are at stake in this instance) I think in most societies naming is a process--a child has different names at different times of life, and LSV is probaby wrong to treat naming as a single function of speech that is simply replaced by signifying and does not itself develop. >>>>> >>>>> What disturbs me about the Hegel quote (and LSV's obvious enthusiasm for it) is that it seems to suggest that everything has, in the final analysis, only one correct name. But perhaps it all depends on that final analysis. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> David Kellogg >>>>> Sangmyung University >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational action research' in Mind Culture and Activity >>>>> >>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847__;!!Mih3wA!WDOlJqftycx1jh76D5UG9AXEQUtgoxqktFA5dBeOR2rdcCVa6e5ytxieRlsMNSSXRYBOgw$ >>>>> >>>>> Some free e-prints available at: >>>>> >>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080*10749039.2020.1745847__;Lw!!Mih3wA!WDOlJqftycx1jh76D5UG9AXEQUtgoxqktFA5dBeOR2rdcCVa6e5ytxieRlsMNSRS6RvK0w$ >>>>> >>>>> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" >>>>> >>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!WDOlJqftycx1jh76D5UG9AXEQUtgoxqktFA5dBeOR2rdcCVa6e5ytxieRlsMNSQptRqhJQ$ >>>> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200417/56e34521/attachment-0001.html From a.j.gil@ils.uio.no Fri Apr 17 11:47:13 2020 From: a.j.gil@ils.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 18:47:13 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News? In-Reply-To: <751BD885-98FE-4A3A-BE61-C1F737FC199B@umich.edu> References: <67D4C8C6-80FE-4A0B-9D32-34AE80FFF490@manchester.ac.uk> <751BD885-98FE-4A3A-BE61-C1F737FC199B@umich.edu> Message-ID: Dear friends, It seems that this discussion is raising a number of interesting challenges with regards to how to co-habit this list worth considering, and always in the most respectful manner. One thing that I think is clear and always takes place is that when members use irony and/or sarcasm, even in as well intentioned as in the post that started this thread, there is the risk that people do not find it appropriate. It is not that this happens always, but obviously is something to consider before posting on those terms. I believe irony is a healthy and important resource to keep with us, just knowing it is, by nature, a double-edged sword. The other thing, which I believe is more challenging, is that, as it?s been made clear by a few participants, and by the way in the most considerate manner (thanks!), is that elaborations in which political positions are qualified as part of our arguments may be experienced as inappropriate. And I wonder what to do with this as a community? This is particularly difficult because, at least as I see it, disconnecting politics from theory, in a list in which issues of human mind and activity are intrinsically connected to culture, is really not possible. What would we discuss, as a community interested in CHAT related issues, if not issues of politics, of social in/justice, as they relate to our present and futures? And how can we discuss it without making reference to the concrete, specific historical cases, public figures, parties, realities of the countries we live in? And please, I am not here defending that this thread should continue, or that there would not be reason to feel it is not appropriate. I am just ignorant enough to realize that I have no clue as to what sort of moderation is appropriate here. So I would appreciate if no references to A has said this, or B has done that, are made; but would appreciate a lot a bit of help on this issue. I think that ignoring our colleague?s concerns and sensitivities is not right. But censoring political discussions, if these are voiced as part of an analysis of current matters of socio-historical relevance, does not feel right either. And please, note that many of us are not US citizens or residents, so you?ll have to excuse our ignorance. Thanks, Alfredo From: on behalf of Edward Wall Reply to: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Date: Friday, 17 April 2020 at 01:07 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News? Dear All I would appreciate if we could take such discussions off list, It is not that I don?t sympathize with the voiced frustrations, but I wish you would vent them elsewhere and elsewhen. Ed Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is. On Apr 16, 2020, at 5:40 PM, Bonnie Nardi > wrote: Watching the debacle of Trump reveals, to me at least, how important class analysis is. Trump is deranged, and his everyday actions fall completely outside all social norms of decency, yet he is consistently supported by (1) his Republican cohorts, (2) big business (Bill Gates: ?I don?t rule out voting for Trump if I have to pay too much in taxes??) and (3) the alienated/uneducated class who?d rather at least have the fun of throwing a brick through the window than put up with any more PC bs (or abortion rights or separation of church and state). A potent and scary mix. The "complicity" Greg mentioned has several sources, all class-based in my view, but oddly variable. Trump is a symptom of a society running off the rails. He could not have come to power had not the underlying conditions been ripe for it. He wasn?t the lesser of two evils for many voters ? he was finally someone who they thought spoke for them whether they occupied corporate boardrooms or NASCAR bleachers or evangelical pews. Europe is also producing fascist-leaning leaders and other places have them firmly ensconced. It?s damn weird to me that we?ve gone, in my lifetime, from U.S. leadership in gay rights, civil rights, disability rights, and environmentalism, to the current horrendous situation. (Europe has implemented better environmental policies but the groundwork was laid in the U.S.) I love the U.S. the way a parent still loves a teenager gone bad, but that?s beside the point, this is now global, as Julian points out. We are all in this together. Neoliberalism deftly divides us (I see it, e.g., in the virus discussions about how old people, are, let?s face it, expendable, and we worry too much about them -- the young need to get back to work, etc. There?s as much of this on reddit as there is from Republicans.) What to do? The first thing is to rethink what a society can and should be. As part of this exercise I recommend Andre Gorz's Paths to Paradise. It's short, sweet, and prescient. Gorz recognized that environmental problems come from too much frenetic economic activity and that we are spending too much of our lives in alienating workplaces. He recommended a lot more automation and a lot more sharing of wealth. He has been a touchstone for me and others in the Computing within LIMITS community (see https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://computingwithinlimits.org/2020/__;!!Mih3wA!VAzz2XpRYSKumKK59DOAmJVbNpnIhgLnLIcC3ztkTcKW5qx7GbrzTZtNJT1WrFYd3Ek63A$ for all the papers going back to 2015). I think we absolutely have to address the big picture and smaller efforts (like growing meat in labs and so on) are not going to do much. The pandemic has shown Gorz to be right about the environment -- I have been astonished at how quickly air and water are clearing, how animals are benefiting, etc. I didn't expect all that to happen so fast. In the San Francisco Bay Area where I live, air pollution is down 40%. There's lots of good media reporting on these kinds of changes which are global. I think we must look to what CHAT has written about personality. I have never really understood that work but I sense that it's important. The culture now produces neoliberal "entrepreneurs" with their self-branding and paddle-your-own-canoe philosophies, but other eras produced other types. I live in a coastal town, and while the beach parking lots are closed, the surfers, walkers, and cyclists are out when they aren't normally out. They are probably getting their work done virtually in less time than normal (without a commute and the distractions of the office), and doing what they love doing! Maybe we need a world of walkers and surfers -- that personality type. I'd be happy if people were more focused on knitting, and baking, and carpentry -- all those homely ways of producing rather than working, often for very little money, so they can buy everything at the store. Most of it ends up in landfills, by design, or, if it's food, it is so awful it contributes to the chronic diseases. Or working hard at high end jobs and ending up feeling one is entitled to what one has (the Bay Area has been badly affected by this) and that if you are poor it's kind of your own fault. Yes, I recognize that staying home more has costs and that we can't produce everything ourselves, but the solution to the big picture is not to send everyone off to the workplace for most of their lives but to address issues of violence, production, quality of life, and so on in direct ways. We can't rely on by-products of our current work habits to stem violence, for example. That is just not right. The post-growth movement in Europe is doing thoughtful work, and I recommend what they write. They cite Gorz (as well as Gandhi, Donella Meadows, and so on), and I think they are on the right track. Best, - Bonnie Bonnie Nardi Professor (Emer.) Department of Informatics School of Information and Computer Sciences 5088 Bren Hall UC Irvine 92697-3440 https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://darrouzet-nardi.net/bonnie__;!!Mih3wA!VAzz2XpRYSKumKK59DOAmJVbNpnIhgLnLIcC3ztkTcKW5qx7GbrzTZtNJT1WrFaoyzEu2Q$ NEW BOOK: Heteromation and Other Stories of Computing and Capitalism (with Hamid Ekbia, MIT Press, 2017) On Apr 16, 2020, at 11:14 AM, Julian Williams > wrote: Mike, hi Surely not funny, of course. And we should have an even greater concern about India, where 1.4billion people are supposedly ?shut down? ( actually, many millions are walking hundreds of miles ?home? from the cities to their villages, wearing masks, but .. ), and nationalist, anti-Muslim extremism - rampant before the crisis ? is growing: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.democracynow.org/2020/4/16/arundhati_roy_coronavirus_india?utm_source=Democracy*Now*21&utm_campaign=5b85440b98-Daily_Digest_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_fa2346a853-5b85440b98-192514813__;KyU!!Mih3wA!VAzz2XpRYSKumKK59DOAmJVbNpnIhgLnLIcC3ztkTcKW5qx7GbrzTZtNJT1WrFbd7Q7yWw$ We can anticipate at least 40 million deaths in India if this gets going - and the fascists are planning to emerge dominant from this ? all encouraged by your big man in the WH. These deaths will perhaps make the holocaust seem like small fry ? will we ever see trials for crimes against humanity? Perhaps not, because it will be difficult to pin these deaths on to intentional action, but maybe there should be a crime for intentional inaction? The abject state of public health systems (long term) and the incompetence and political management (short term) being the main charges. Then in the US we can see some analyses of the way the deaths are hugely discriminatory against black/ethnic minorities and the poor: ?More than 70 per cent of COVID-19 deaths in the state of Louisiana were African-Americans, despite accounting for just a third of the general population. In New York City it's 17 per cent of deaths, for a 9 per cent share of residents.?https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-16/drum-covid-african-american-affected/12153268__;!!Mih3wA!VAzz2XpRYSKumKK59DOAmJVbNpnIhgLnLIcC3ztkTcKW5qx7GbrzTZtNJT1WrFY_DCyY6g$ Globally translated ? this will become a terrible indictment of the world?s structure of poverty: I had to pause the other day ? is this kind of admittedly political posting appropriate to xmca listserve?s concerns: I think that?s a question for xmca ? ?are we/is xmca relevant to the millions of deaths likely as the pandemic spreads to the poor nations?? The question is moot ? only you people out there can say, or do by saying. Julian PS It?s good that in some parts of the world this information is still getting out. The middle east, and Africa, in many parts, maybe is more difficult. From: > on behalf of mike cole > Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Date: Thursday, 16 April 2020 at 18:36 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: FW: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News? There is absolutely nothing funny about the crypto fascists running this government, Julian. Trump is pushing towar monarchy in a fashion that might be funny if it were a Gilbert and Sullivan musical. mike On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 2:27 PM Julian Williams > wrote: Dear all, Kellyanne Conway ? I think I heard her name a while back ? what a Con, Ha ha? But perhaps not so very funny, right? God help us ? it all fits ? and now international pandemic and the next step is to defenestrate our only World Health Organisation? I can?t see anything short of a massive rebellion being an appropriate response? get those idiots out of the white house? Julian Subject: Fwd: Unbelievable White House counselor Kellyanne Conway falsely suggested Wednesday that there had been 18 previous strains of the novel coronavirus as she defended President Trump?s decision to suspend funding to the World Health Organization. "This is covid-19, not covid-1, folks, and so you would think the people charged with the World Health Organization facts and figures would be on top of that,? Conway said during an interview on Fox News. In fact, the ?19? at the end of the virus?s name denotes that it was discovered in 2019, not that it is the 19th strain of the virus. At its outset, it was referred to by health officials as the ?2019 novel coronavirus.? -- the creation of utopias ? and their exhaustive criticism ? is the proper and distinctive method of sociology. H.G.Wells --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200417/1d19c231/attachment.html From bazerman@education.ucsb.edu Fri Apr 17 12:38:45 2020 From: bazerman@education.ucsb.edu (Charles Bazerman) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 12:38:45 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News? In-Reply-To: References: <67D4C8C6-80FE-4A0B-9D32-34AE80FFF490@manchester.ac.uk> <751BD885-98FE-4A3A-BE61-C1F737FC199B@umich.edu> Message-ID: I do not understand why a discussion list devoted a the serious academic consideration of particular theories, analysis, approaches, findings, and applications that fall within its scope should avoid discussion of immediate pressing issues of great importance to the lives of all of our various communities, despite the range of views and analyses that might be brought to bear on the discussion, as long as all the analyses, findings, applications, etc present are presented according to serious academic standards. IF governments and economic institutions--along with individuals involved in their actions-- are core parts of the activity systems that affect how these issues impact our lives, of course these need to be examined, analyzed, evaluated, commented on. If forums devoted to medicine, epidemiology, economics, politics, international affairs etc can do that, I do not see why those devoted to activity theory should restrict themselves. What this does mean, however, is that calis need to be made responsibly, and where appropriate documented with credible evidence and sources--whether this has to do with historical namings of viruses as part of the evaluation of political or cultural actions or of the delivery of essential resources for the delivery of services in emergent and evolving circumstances. This also means that those who object to claims or discussions have an equal responsibility to provide detailed analysis, evidence, and arguments that would locate precisely and support their objections, rather than wishing in a broad stroke to banish whole ill-defined classes of discussion. The Latour inspired discussion of alternative futures is particularly appropriate to this list and of this moment. While I was writing in this email, for example, in the background I was listening to the Governor of California proposing community structures to come up with plans for recreating the economic and environmental structures post-crisis. As those details emerge, I would very much like to hear the analysis of members of the list to these proposals, as well as similar structures and plans emerging in other jurisdictions in this country and others. Chuck ---- ?? ??????????? ?????? ??? ?? ????? ??? ?????????? ???????? ??????? ?? ??? ?? ????????? Los Estados Unidos es una naci?n de inmigrantes. The U.S. is a nation of immigrants. History will judge. https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://bazerman.education.ucsb.edu/__;!!Mih3wA!U06gyBHUU1pYIGdwpuzFeQZMlUyhJl0dH2oA2ep9-m-iwfqQOFrZOJU6hA5ciwV44DzO6g$ https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Charles_Bazerman__;!!Mih3wA!U06gyBHUU1pYIGdwpuzFeQZMlUyhJl0dH2oA2ep9-m-iwfqQOFrZOJU6hA5ciwX2UhbSJA$ https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.isawr.org__;!!Mih3wA!U06gyBHUU1pYIGdwpuzFeQZMlUyhJl0dH2oA2ep9-m-iwfqQOFrZOJU6hA5ciwW0CFt1Sw$ On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 11:50 AM Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > Dear friends, > > > > It seems that this discussion is raising a number of interesting > challenges with regards to how to co-habit this list worth considering, and > always in the most respectful manner. > > > > One thing that I think is clear and always takes place is that when > members use irony and/or sarcasm, even in as well intentioned as in the > post that started this thread, there is the risk that people do not find it > appropriate. It is not that this happens always, but obviously is something > to consider before posting on those terms. I believe irony is a healthy and > important resource to keep with us, just knowing it is, by nature, a > double-edged sword. > > > > The other thing, which I believe is more challenging, is that, as it?s > been made clear by a few participants, and by the way in the most > considerate manner (thanks!), is that elaborations in which political > positions are qualified as part of our arguments may be experienced as > inappropriate. And I wonder what to do with this as a community? This is > particularly difficult because, at least as I see it, disconnecting > politics from theory, in a list in which issues of human mind and activity > are intrinsically connected to culture, is really not possible. What would > we discuss, as a community interested in CHAT related issues, if not issues > of politics, of social in/justice, as they relate to our present and > futures? And how can we discuss it without making reference to the > concrete, specific historical cases, public figures, parties, realities of > the countries we live in? > > > > And please, I am not here defending that this thread should continue, or > that there would not be reason to feel it is not appropriate. I am just > ignorant enough to realize that I have no clue as to what sort of > moderation is appropriate here. So I would appreciate if no references to A > has said this, or B has done that, are made; but would appreciate a lot a > bit of help on this issue. I think that ignoring our colleague?s concerns > and sensitivities is not right. But censoring political discussions, if > these are voiced as part of an analysis of current matters of > socio-historical relevance, does not feel right either. And please, note > that many of us are not US citizens or residents, so you?ll have to excuse > our ignorance. > > > > Thanks, > > Alfredo > > *From: * on behalf of Edward Wall < > ewall@umich.edu> > *Reply to: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > *Date: *Friday, 17 April 2020 at 01:07 > *To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox > News? > > > > Dear All > > > > I would appreciate if we could take such discussions off list, It is > not that I don?t sympathize with the voiced frustrations, but I wish you > would vent them elsewhere and elsewhen. > > > > Ed > > > > Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a > sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is. > > > > On Apr 16, 2020, at 5:40 PM, Bonnie Nardi wrote: > > > > Watching the debacle of Trump reveals, to me at least, how important class > analysis is. Trump is deranged, and his everyday actions fall completely > outside all social norms of decency, yet he is *consistently supported* > by (1) his Republican cohorts, (2) big business (Bill Gates: ?I don?t rule > out voting for Trump if I have to pay too much in taxes??) and (3) the > alienated/uneducated class who?d rather at least have the fun of throwing a > brick through the window than put up with any more PC bs (or abortion > rights or separation of church and state). A potent and scary mix. The > "complicity" Greg mentioned has several sources, all class-based in my > view, but oddly variable. > > > > Trump is a symptom of a society running off the rails. He could not have > come to power had not the underlying conditions been ripe for it. He wasn?t > the lesser of two evils for many voters ? he was finally someone who they > thought spoke for them whether they occupied corporate boardrooms or NASCAR > bleachers or evangelical pews. Europe is also producing fascist-leaning > leaders and other places have them firmly ensconced. > > > > It?s damn weird to me that we?ve gone, in my lifetime, from U.S. > leadership in gay rights, civil rights, disability rights, and > environmentalism, to the current horrendous situation. (Europe has > implemented better environmental policies but the groundwork was laid in > the U.S.) I love the U.S. the way a parent still loves a teenager gone bad, > but that?s beside the point, this is now global, as Julian points out. We > are all in this together. Neoliberalism deftly divides us (I see it, e.g., > in the virus discussions about how old people, are, let?s face it, > expendable, and we worry too much about them -- the young need to get back > to work, etc. There?s as much of this on reddit as there is from > Republicans.) > > > > What to do? The first thing is to rethink what a society can and should > be. As part of this exercise I recommend Andre Gorz's *Paths to Paradise*. > It's short, sweet, and prescient. Gorz recognized that environmental > problems come from too much frenetic economic activity and that we are > spending too much of our lives in alienating workplaces. He recommended a > lot more automation and a lot more sharing of wealth. He has been a > touchstone for me and others in the Computing within LIMITS community (see > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://computingwithinlimits.org/2020/__;!!Mih3wA!U06gyBHUU1pYIGdwpuzFeQZMlUyhJl0dH2oA2ep9-m-iwfqQOFrZOJU6hA5ciwWBrrp4PA$ > > for all the papers going back to 2015). > > > > I think we absolutely have to address the big picture and smaller efforts > (like growing meat in labs and so on) are not going to do much. > > > > The pandemic has shown Gorz to be right about the environment -- I have > been astonished at how quickly air and water are clearing, how animals are > benefiting, etc. I didn't expect all that to happen so fast. In the San > Francisco Bay Area where I live, air pollution is down 40%. There's lots of > good media reporting on these kinds of changes which are global. > > > > I think we must look to what CHAT has written about personality. I have > never really understood that work but I sense that it's important. The > culture now produces neoliberal "entrepreneurs" with their self-branding > and paddle-your-own-canoe philosophies, but other eras produced other > types. I live in a coastal town, and while the beach parking lots are > closed, the surfers, walkers, and cyclists are out when they aren't > normally out. They are probably getting their work done virtually in less > time than normal (without a commute and the distractions of the office), > and doing what they love doing! Maybe we need a world of walkers and > surfers -- that personality type. I'd be happy if people were more focused > on knitting, and baking, and carpentry -- all those homely ways of > producing rather than working, often for very little money, so they can buy > everything at the store. Most of it ends up in landfills, by design, or, if > it's food, it is so awful it contributes to the chronic diseases. Or > working hard at high end jobs and ending up feeling one is entitled to what > one has (the Bay Area has been badly affected by this) and that if you are > poor it's kind of your own fault. > > > > Yes, I recognize that staying home more has costs and that we can't > produce everything ourselves, but the solution to the big picture is not to > send everyone off to the workplace for most of their lives but to address > issues of violence, production, quality of life, and so on in direct ways. > We can't rely on by-products of our current work habits to stem violence, > for example. That is just not right. > > > > The post-growth movement in Europe is doing thoughtful work, and I > recommend what they write. They cite Gorz (as well as Gandhi, Donella > Meadows, and so on), and I think they are on the right track. > > > > Best, > > > > - > > > > Bonnie > > > > > > > > > > Bonnie Nardi > Professor (Emer.) > Department of Informatics > School of Information and Computer Sciences > 5088 Bren Hall > UC Irvine 92697-3440 > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://darrouzet-nardi.net/bonnie__;!!Mih3wA!U06gyBHUU1pYIGdwpuzFeQZMlUyhJl0dH2oA2ep9-m-iwfqQOFrZOJU6hA5ciwXxf3M5Cg$ > > > NEW BOOK: Heteromation and Other Stories of Computing and > Capitalism (with Hamid Ekbia, MIT Press, 2017) > > > > On Apr 16, 2020, at 11:14 AM, Julian Williams < > julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk> wrote: > > > > Mike, hi > > > > Surely not funny, of course. And we should have an even greater concern > about India, where 1.4billion people are supposedly ?shut down? ( actually, > many millions are walking hundreds of miles ?home? from the cities to their > villages, wearing masks, but .. ), and nationalist, anti-Muslim extremism > - rampant before the crisis ? is growing: > > > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.democracynow.org/2020/4/16/arundhati_roy_coronavirus_india?utm_source=Democracy*Now*21&utm_campaign=5b85440b98-Daily_Digest_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_fa2346a853-5b85440b98-192514813__;KyU!!Mih3wA!U06gyBHUU1pYIGdwpuzFeQZMlUyhJl0dH2oA2ep9-m-iwfqQOFrZOJU6hA5ciwXOZFHn7g$ > > > > > We can anticipate at least 40 million deaths in India if this gets going > - and the fascists are planning to emerge dominant from this ? all > encouraged by your big man in the WH. > > > > These deaths will perhaps make the holocaust seem like small fry ? will we > ever see trials for crimes against humanity? Perhaps not, because it will > be difficult to pin these deaths on to intentional action, but maybe there > should be a crime for intentional inaction? The abject state of public > health systems (long term) and the incompetence and political management > (short term) being the main charges. > > > > Then in the US we can see some analyses of the way the deaths are hugely > discriminatory against black/ethnic minorities and the poor: ?More than > 70 per cent of COVID-19 deaths in the state of Louisiana were > African-Americans, despite accounting for just a third of the general > population. In New York City it's 17 per cent of deaths, for a 9 per cent > share of residents.? > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-16/drum-covid-african-american-affected/12153268__;!!Mih3wA!U06gyBHUU1pYIGdwpuzFeQZMlUyhJl0dH2oA2ep9-m-iwfqQOFrZOJU6hA5ciwUtwpsyqQ$ > Globally > translated ? this will become a terrible indictment of the world?s > structure of poverty: > > > > I had to pause the other day ? is this kind of admittedly political > posting appropriate to xmca listserve?s concerns: I think that?s a question > for xmca ? ?are we/is xmca relevant to the millions of deaths likely as the > pandemic spreads to the poor nations?? The question is moot ? only you > people out there can say, or do by saying. > > > > Julian > > > > PS It?s good that in some parts of the world this information is still > getting out. The middle east, and Africa, in many parts, maybe is more > difficult. > > > > *From: * on behalf of mike cole < > mcole@ucsd.edu> > *Reply-To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > *Date: *Thursday, 16 April 2020 at 18:36 > *To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: FW: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to > Fox News? > > > > There is absolutely nothing funny about the crypto fascists running this > government, Julian. > > Trump is pushing towar monarchy in a fashion that might be funny if it > were a Gilbert and Sullivan > > musical. > > mike > > > > On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 2:27 PM Julian Williams < > julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk> wrote: > > Dear all, > > > > Kellyanne *Conwa*y ? I think I heard her name a while back ? what a Con, > Ha ha? > > > > But perhaps not so very funny, right? > > > > God help us ? it all fits ? and now international pandemic and the next > step is to defenestrate our only World Health Organisation? > > > > I can?t see anything short of a massive rebellion being an appropriate > response? get those idiots out of the white house? > > > > Julian > > > > > *Subject: *Fwd: Unbelievable > > > > White House counselor Kellyanne Conway falsely suggested Wednesday that > there had been 18 previous strains of the novel coronavirus as she defended > President Trump?s decision to suspend funding to the World Health > Organization. > > > > "This is covid-19, not covid-1, folks, and so you would think the people > charged with the World Health Organization facts and figures would be on > top of that,? Conway said during an interview on Fox News. > > > > In fact, the ?19? at the end of the virus?s name denotes that it was > discovered in 2019, not that it is the 19th strain of the virus. At its > outset, it was referred to by health officials as the ?2019 novel > coronavirus.? > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > the creation of utopias ? and their exhaustive criticism ? is the proper > and distinctive method of sociology. H.G.Wells > > --------------------------------------------------- > > For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other > members of LCHC, visit > > lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the > research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200417/de72251f/attachment.html From helenaworthen@gmail.com Fri Apr 17 13:18:04 2020 From: helenaworthen@gmail.com (Helena Worthen) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 13:18:04 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News? In-Reply-To: References: <67D4C8C6-80FE-4A0B-9D32-34AE80FFF490@manchester.ac.uk> <751BD885-98FE-4A3A-BE61-C1F737FC199B@umich.edu> Message-ID: <9BA3817B-B869-4195-AE66-8ED58264B8C4@gmail.com> IMHO, ?elaborations in which political positions are qualified as part of our arguments? are vital to the relevance of this list. The Vygotskian tradition?s roots go deep in a period of tumultuous, dangerous change ? the Russian revolution - and the people who formulated it did so in the face of threats, loss of livelihood, suppression of research, etc. not so much because their work was revolutionary but because there was a revolution going on around them, stones flying everywhere. Vygotsky was essential to the creation of education systems in other countries in extreme conditions ? my knowledge of this comes from Vietnam. Vygotsky finally came to the US despite McCarthyism etc. but here, over the last 30-40 years, CHAT has been, as I think we have agreed, domesticated and cured of its politics, to its detriment. Drawing the Vygotskian tradition and its current expressions back into the fray, weaving theory and the facts of the current crisis together, won?t be a bump-free project, but let?s keep on with it. Generally speaking, avoiding irony, sarcasm and other things that rely on tone of voice, and calling out someone by name --not usually good even in praise (because it turns into a one-on-one). Other than that, I?m not worried, I think we?re doing fine. ? Helena Worthen hworthen@illinois.edu > On Apr 17, 2020, at 11:47 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > > Dear friends, > > It seems that this discussion is raising a number of interesting challenges with regards to how to co-habit this list worth considering, and always in the most respectful manner. > > One thing that I think is clear and always takes place is that when members use irony and/or sarcasm, even in as well intentioned as in the post that started this thread, there is the risk that people do not find it appropriate. It is not that this happens always, but obviously is something to consider before posting on those terms. I believe irony is a healthy and important resource to keep with us, just knowing it is, by nature, a double-edged sword. > > The other thing, which I believe is more challenging, is that, as it?s been made clear by a few participants, and by the way in the most considerate manner (thanks!), is that elaborations in which political positions are qualified as part of our arguments may be experienced as inappropriate. And I wonder what to do with this as a community? This is particularly difficult because, at least as I see it, disconnecting politics from theory, in a list in which issues of human mind and activity are intrinsically connected to culture, is really not possible. What would we discuss, as a community interested in CHAT related issues, if not issues of politics, of social in/justice, as they relate to our present and futures? And how can we discuss it without making reference to the concrete, specific historical cases, public figures, parties, realities of the countries we live in? > > And please, I am not here defending that this thread should continue, or that there would not be reason to feel it is not appropriate. I am just ignorant enough to realize that I have no clue as to what sort of moderation is appropriate here. So I would appreciate if no references to A has said this, or B has done that, are made; but would appreciate a lot a bit of help on this issue. I think that ignoring our colleague?s concerns and sensitivities is not right. But censoring political discussions, if these are voiced as part of an analysis of current matters of socio-historical relevance, does not feel right either. And please, note that many of us are not US citizens or residents, so you?ll have to excuse our ignorance. > > Thanks, > Alfredo > From: > on behalf of Edward Wall > > Reply to: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > > Date: Friday, 17 April 2020 at 01:07 > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News? > > Dear All > > I would appreciate if we could take such discussions off list, It is not that I don?t sympathize with the voiced frustrations, but I wish you would vent them elsewhere and elsewhen. > > Ed > > Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is. > > On Apr 16, 2020, at 5:40 PM, Bonnie Nardi > wrote: > > Watching the debacle of Trump reveals, to me at least, how important class analysis is. Trump is deranged, and his everyday actions fall completely outside all social norms of decency, yet he is consistently supported by (1) his Republican cohorts, (2) big business (Bill Gates: ?I don?t rule out voting for Trump if I have to pay too much in taxes??) and (3) the alienated/uneducated class who?d rather at least have the fun of throwing a brick through the window than put up with any more PC bs (or abortion rights or separation of church and state). A potent and scary mix. The "complicity" Greg mentioned has several sources, all class-based in my view, but oddly variable. > > Trump is a symptom of a society running off the rails. He could not have come to power had not the underlying conditions been ripe for it. He wasn?t the lesser of two evils for many voters ? he was finally someone who they thought spoke for them whether they occupied corporate boardrooms or NASCAR bleachers or evangelical pews. Europe is also producing fascist-leaning leaders and other places have them firmly ensconced. > > It?s damn weird to me that we?ve gone, in my lifetime, from U.S. leadership in gay rights, civil rights, disability rights, and environmentalism, to the current horrendous situation. (Europe has implemented better environmental policies but the groundwork was laid in the U.S.) I love the U.S. the way a parent still loves a teenager gone bad, but that?s beside the point, this is now global, as Julian points out. We are all in this together. Neoliberalism deftly divides us (I see it, e.g., in the virus discussions about how old people, are, let?s face it, expendable, and we worry too much about them -- the young need to get back to work, etc. There?s as much of this on reddit as there is from Republicans.) > > What to do? The first thing is to rethink what a society can and should be. As part of this exercise I recommend Andre Gorz's Paths to Paradise. It's short, sweet, and prescient. Gorz recognized that environmental problems come from too much frenetic economic activity and that we are spending too much of our lives in alienating workplaces. He recommended a lot more automation and a lot more sharing of wealth. He has been a touchstone for me and others in the Computing within LIMITS community (see https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://computingwithinlimits.org/2020/__;!!Mih3wA!RWEMjgDGxaVUt160J9TNz_1dkCv3NrCIeY7wY4fK7QvcrG-sXwXfSd28N-34Syeu4cDrAQ$ for all the papers going back to 2015). > > I think we absolutely have to address the big picture and smaller efforts (like growing meat in labs and so on) are not going to do much. > > The pandemic has shown Gorz to be right about the environment -- I have been astonished at how quickly air and water are clearing, how animals are benefiting, etc. I didn't expect all that to happen so fast. In the San Francisco Bay Area where I live, air pollution is down 40%. There's lots of good media reporting on these kinds of changes which are global. > > I think we must look to what CHAT has written about personality. I have never really understood that work but I sense that it's important. The culture now produces neoliberal "entrepreneurs" with their self-branding and paddle-your-own-canoe philosophies, but other eras produced other types. I live in a coastal town, and while the beach parking lots are closed, the surfers, walkers, and cyclists are out when they aren't normally out. They are probably getting their work done virtually in less time than normal (without a commute and the distractions of the office), and doing what they love doing! Maybe we need a world of walkers and surfers -- that personality type. I'd be happy if people were more focused on knitting, and baking, and carpentry -- all those homely ways of producing rather than working, often for very little money, so they can buy everything at the store. Most of it ends up in landfills, by design, or, if it's food, it is so awful it contributes to the chronic diseases. Or working hard at high end jobs and ending up feeling one is entitled to what one has (the Bay Area has been badly affected by this) and that if you are poor it's kind of your own fault. > > Yes, I recognize that staying home more has costs and that we can't produce everything ourselves, but the solution to the big picture is not to send everyone off to the workplace for most of their lives but to address issues of violence, production, quality of life, and so on in direct ways. We can't rely on by-products of our current work habits to stem violence, for example. That is just not right. > > The post-growth movement in Europe is doing thoughtful work, and I recommend what they write. They cite Gorz (as well as Gandhi, Donella Meadows, and so on), and I think they are on the right track. > > Best, > > - > > Bonnie > > > > > Bonnie Nardi > Professor (Emer.) > Department of Informatics > School of Information and Computer Sciences > 5088 Bren Hall > UC Irvine 92697-3440 > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://darrouzet-nardi.net/bonnie__;!!Mih3wA!RWEMjgDGxaVUt160J9TNz_1dkCv3NrCIeY7wY4fK7QvcrG-sXwXfSd28N-34SycyftZGNw$ > NEW BOOK: Heteromation and Other Stories of Computing and Capitalism (with Hamid Ekbia, MIT Press, 2017) > > > On Apr 16, 2020, at 11:14 AM, Julian Williams > wrote: > > Mike, hi > > Surely not funny, of course. And we should have an even greater concern about India, where 1.4billion people are supposedly ?shut down? ( actually, many millions are walking hundreds of miles ?home? from the cities to their villages, wearing masks, but .. ), and nationalist, anti-Muslim extremism - rampant before the crisis ? is growing: > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.democracynow.org/2020/4/16/arundhati_roy_coronavirus_india?utm_source=Democracy*Now*21&utm_campaign=5b85440b98-Daily_Digest_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_fa2346a853-5b85440b98-192514813__;KyU!!Mih3wA!RWEMjgDGxaVUt160J9TNz_1dkCv3NrCIeY7wY4fK7QvcrG-sXwXfSd28N-34SyevLJMnOA$ > > We can anticipate at least 40 million deaths in India if this gets going - and the fascists are planning to emerge dominant from this ? all encouraged by your big man in the WH. > > These deaths will perhaps make the holocaust seem like small fry ? will we ever see trials for crimes against humanity? Perhaps not, because it will be difficult to pin these deaths on to intentional action, but maybe there should be a crime for intentional inaction? The abject state of public health systems (long term) and the incompetence and political management (short term) being the main charges. > > Then in the US we can see some analyses of the way the deaths are hugely discriminatory against black/ethnic minorities and the poor: ?More than 70 per cent of COVID-19 deaths in the state of Louisiana were African-Americans, despite accounting for just a third of the general population. In New York City it's 17 per cent of deaths, for a 9 per cent share of residents.?https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-16/drum-covid-african-american-affected/12153268__;!!Mih3wA!RWEMjgDGxaVUt160J9TNz_1dkCv3NrCIeY7wY4fK7QvcrG-sXwXfSd28N-34SyerF3_ecg$ Globally translated ? this will become a terrible indictment of the world?s structure of poverty: > > I had to pause the other day ? is this kind of admittedly political posting appropriate to xmca listserve?s concerns: I think that?s a question for xmca ? ?are we/is xmca relevant to the millions of deaths likely as the pandemic spreads to the poor nations?? The question is moot ? only you people out there can say, or do by saying. > > Julian > > PS It?s good that in some parts of the world this information is still getting out. The middle east, and Africa, in many parts, maybe is more difficult. > > From: > on behalf of mike cole > > Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > > Date: Thursday, 16 April 2020 at 18:36 > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: FW: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News? > > There is absolutely nothing funny about the crypto fascists running this government, Julian. > Trump is pushing towar monarchy in a fashion that might be funny if it were a Gilbert and Sullivan > musical. > mike > > On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 2:27 PM Julian Williams > wrote: > Dear all, > > Kellyanne Conway ? I think I heard her name a while back ? what a Con, Ha ha? > > But perhaps not so very funny, right? > > God help us ? it all fits ? and now international pandemic and the next step is to defenestrate our only World Health Organisation? > > I can?t see anything short of a massive rebellion being an appropriate response? get those idiots out of the white house? > > Julian > > > Subject: Fwd: Unbelievable > > White House counselor Kellyanne Conway falsely suggested Wednesday that there had been 18 previous strains of the novel coronavirus as she defended President Trump?s decision to suspend funding to the World Health Organization. > > "This is covid-19, not covid-1, folks, and so you would think the people charged with the World Health Organization facts and figures would be on top of that,? Conway said during an interview on Fox News. > > In fact, the ?19? at the end of the virus?s name denotes that it was discovered in 2019, not that it is the 19th strain of the virus. At its outset, it was referred to by health officials as the ?2019 novel coronavirus.? > > > > > > -- > the creation of utopias ? and their exhaustive criticism ? is the proper and distinctive method of sociology. H.G.Wells > --------------------------------------------------- > For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit > lchc.ucsd.edu . For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu . -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200417/81fa062c/attachment.html From Phillip.White@ucdenver.edu Fri Apr 17 13:38:44 2020 From: Phillip.White@ucdenver.edu (White, Phillip) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 20:38:44 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News? In-Reply-To: <9BA3817B-B869-4195-AE66-8ED58264B8C4@gmail.com> References: <67D4C8C6-80FE-4A0B-9D32-34AE80FFF490@manchester.ac.uk> <751BD885-98FE-4A3A-BE61-C1F737FC199B@umich.edu> , <9BA3817B-B869-4195-AE66-8ED58264B8C4@gmail.com> Message-ID: XMCA members, a small quote from L.S.Vygotsky in Thinking Speech: [Thought] is not born of other thoughts. Thought has its origins in the motivating sphere of consciousness, a sphere that includes our inclinations and needs, our interests and impulses, and our affect and emotions. The affective and volitional tendency stands behind thought. Only here do we find the answer to the final "why" in the analysis of thinking. (1934/1987, p. 282) phillip ________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Helena Worthen Sent: Friday, April 17, 2020 2:18 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News? IMHO, ?elaborations in which political positions are qualified as part of our arguments? are vital to the relevance of this list. The Vygotskian tradition?s roots go deep in a period of tumultuous, dangerous change ? the Russian revolution - and the people who formulated it did so in the face of threats, loss of livelihood, suppression of research, etc. not so much because their work was revolutionary but because there was a revolution going on around them, stones flying everywhere. Vygotsky was essential to the creation of education systems in other countries in extreme conditions ? my knowledge of this comes from Vietnam. Vygotsky finally came to the US despite McCarthyism etc. but here, over the last 30-40 years, CHAT has been, as I think we have agreed, domesticated and cured of its politics, to its detriment. Drawing the Vygotskian tradition and its current expressions back into the fray, weaving theory and the facts of the current crisis together, won?t be a bump-free project, but let?s keep on with it. Generally speaking, avoiding irony, sarcasm and other things that rely on tone of voice, and calling out someone by name --not usually good even in praise (because it turns into a one-on-one). Other than that, I?m not worried, I think we?re doing fine. ? Helena Worthen hworthen@illinois.edu On Apr 17, 2020, at 11:47 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > wrote: Dear friends, It seems that this discussion is raising a number of interesting challenges with regards to how to co-habit this list worth considering, and always in the most respectful manner. One thing that I think is clear and always takes place is that when members use irony and/or sarcasm, even in as well intentioned as in the post that started this thread, there is the risk that people do not find it appropriate. It is not that this happens always, but obviously is something to consider before posting on those terms. I believe irony is a healthy and important resource to keep with us, just knowing it is, by nature, a double-edged sword. The other thing, which I believe is more challenging, is that, as it?s been made clear by a few participants, and by the way in the most considerate manner (thanks!), is that elaborations in which political positions are qualified as part of our arguments may be experienced as inappropriate. And I wonder what to do with this as a community? This is particularly difficult because, at least as I see it, disconnecting politics from theory, in a list in which issues of human mind and activity are intrinsically connected to culture, is really not possible. What would we discuss, as a community interested in CHAT related issues, if not issues of politics, of social in/justice, as they relate to our present and futures? And how can we discuss it without making reference to the concrete, specific historical cases, public figures, parties, realities of the countries we live in? And please, I am not here defending that this thread should continue, or that there would not be reason to feel it is not appropriate. I am just ignorant enough to realize that I have no clue as to what sort of moderation is appropriate here. So I would appreciate if no references to A has said this, or B has done that, are made; but would appreciate a lot a bit of help on this issue. I think that ignoring our colleague?s concerns and sensitivities is not right. But censoring political discussions, if these are voiced as part of an analysis of current matters of socio-historical relevance, does not feel right either. And please, note that many of us are not US citizens or residents, so you?ll have to excuse our ignorance. Thanks, Alfredo From: > on behalf of Edward Wall > Reply to: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Date: Friday, 17 April 2020 at 01:07 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News? Dear All I would appreciate if we could take such discussions off list, It is not that I don?t sympathize with the voiced frustrations, but I wish you would vent them elsewhere and elsewhen. Ed Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is. On Apr 16, 2020, at 5:40 PM, Bonnie Nardi > wrote: Watching the debacle of Trump reveals, to me at least, how important class analysis is. Trump is deranged, and his everyday actions fall completely outside all social norms of decency, yet he is consistently supported by (1) his Republican cohorts, (2) big business (Bill Gates: ?I don?t rule out voting for Trump if I have to pay too much in taxes??) and (3) the alienated/uneducated class who?d rather at least have the fun of throwing a brick through the window than put up with any more PC bs (or abortion rights or separation of church and state). A potent and scary mix. The "complicity" Greg mentioned has several sources, all class-based in my view, but oddly variable. Trump is a symptom of a society running off the rails. He could not have come to power had not the underlying conditions been ripe for it. He wasn?t the lesser of two evils for many voters ? he was finally someone who they thought spoke for them whether they occupied corporate boardrooms or NASCAR bleachers or evangelical pews. Europe is also producing fascist-leaning leaders and other places have them firmly ensconced. It?s damn weird to me that we?ve gone, in my lifetime, from U.S. leadership in gay rights, civil rights, disability rights, and environmentalism, to the current horrendous situation. (Europe has implemented better environmental policies but the groundwork was laid in the U.S.) I love the U.S. the way a parent still loves a teenager gone bad, but that?s beside the point, this is now global, as Julian points out. We are all in this together. Neoliberalism deftly divides us (I see it, e.g., in the virus discussions about how old people, are, let?s face it, expendable, and we worry too much about them -- the young need to get back to work, etc. There?s as much of this on reddit as there is from Republicans.) What to do? The first thing is to rethink what a society can and should be. As part of this exercise I recommend Andre Gorz's Paths to Paradise. It's short, sweet, and prescient. Gorz recognized that environmental problems come from too much frenetic economic activity and that we are spending too much of our lives in alienating workplaces. He recommended a lot more automation and a lot more sharing of wealth. He has been a touchstone for me and others in the Computing within LIMITS community (see https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://computingwithinlimits.org/2020/__;!!Mih3wA!WUjj3NjSPUvaZyHO_-0j0fDPt6dtFn0yj-8xMRk2ZflDqUcRDWjiePuccKkIApYIUIob1A$ for all the papers going back to 2015). I think we absolutely have to address the big picture and smaller efforts (like growing meat in labs and so on) are not going to do much. The pandemic has shown Gorz to be right about the environment -- I have been astonished at how quickly air and water are clearing, how animals are benefiting, etc. I didn't expect all that to happen so fast. In the San Francisco Bay Area where I live, air pollution is down 40%. There's lots of good media reporting on these kinds of changes which are global. I think we must look to what CHAT has written about personality. I have never really understood that work but I sense that it's important. The culture now produces neoliberal "entrepreneurs" with their self-branding and paddle-your-own-canoe philosophies, but other eras produced other types. I live in a coastal town, and while the beach parking lots are closed, the surfers, walkers, and cyclists are out when they aren't normally out. They are probably getting their work done virtually in less time than normal (without a commute and the distractions of the office), and doing what they love doing! Maybe we need a world of walkers and surfers -- that personality type. I'd be happy if people were more focused on knitting, and baking, and carpentry -- all those homely ways of producing rather than working, often for very little money, so they can buy everything at the store. Most of it ends up in landfills, by design, or, if it's food, it is so awful it contributes to the chronic diseases. Or working hard at high end jobs and ending up feeling one is entitled to what one has (the Bay Area has been badly affected by this) and that if you are poor it's kind of your own fault. Yes, I recognize that staying home more has costs and that we can't produce everything ourselves, but the solution to the big picture is not to send everyone off to the workplace for most of their lives but to address issues of violence, production, quality of life, and so on in direct ways. We can't rely on by-products of our current work habits to stem violence, for example. That is just not right. The post-growth movement in Europe is doing thoughtful work, and I recommend what they write. They cite Gorz (as well as Gandhi, Donella Meadows, and so on), and I think they are on the right track. Best, - Bonnie Bonnie Nardi Professor (Emer.) Department of Informatics School of Information and Computer Sciences 5088 Bren Hall UC Irvine 92697-3440 https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://darrouzet-nardi.net/bonnie__;!!Mih3wA!WUjj3NjSPUvaZyHO_-0j0fDPt6dtFn0yj-8xMRk2ZflDqUcRDWjiePuccKkIApZ2YKy2fw$ NEW BOOK: Heteromation and Other Stories of Computing and Capitalism (with Hamid Ekbia, MIT Press, 2017) On Apr 16, 2020, at 11:14 AM, Julian Williams > wrote: Mike, hi Surely not funny, of course. And we should have an even greater concern about India, where 1.4billion people are supposedly ?shut down? ( actually, many millions are walking hundreds of miles ?home? from the cities to their villages, wearing masks, but .. ), and nationalist, anti-Muslim extremism - rampant before the crisis ? is growing: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.democracynow.org/2020/4/16/arundhati_roy_coronavirus_india?utm_source=Democracy*Now*21&utm_campaign=5b85440b98-Daily_Digest_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_fa2346a853-5b85440b98-192514813__;KyU!!Mih3wA!WUjj3NjSPUvaZyHO_-0j0fDPt6dtFn0yj-8xMRk2ZflDqUcRDWjiePuccKkIApaOhpf4ig$ We can anticipate at least 40 million deaths in India if this gets going - and the fascists are planning to emerge dominant from this ? all encouraged by your big man in the WH. These deaths will perhaps make the holocaust seem like small fry ? will we ever see trials for crimes against humanity? Perhaps not, because it will be difficult to pin these deaths on to intentional action, but maybe there should be a crime for intentional inaction? The abject state of public health systems (long term) and the incompetence and political management (short term) being the main charges. Then in the US we can see some analyses of the way the deaths are hugely discriminatory against black/ethnic minorities and the poor: ?More than 70 per cent of COVID-19 deaths in the state of Louisiana were African-Americans, despite accounting for just a third of the general population. In New York City it's 17 per cent of deaths, for a 9 per cent share of residents.?https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-16/drum-covid-african-american-affected/12153268__;!!Mih3wA!WUjj3NjSPUvaZyHO_-0j0fDPt6dtFn0yj-8xMRk2ZflDqUcRDWjiePuccKkIApYr-Y3YAA$ Globally translated ? this will become a terrible indictment of the world?s structure of poverty: I had to pause the other day ? is this kind of admittedly political posting appropriate to xmca listserve?s concerns: I think that?s a question for xmca ? ?are we/is xmca relevant to the millions of deaths likely as the pandemic spreads to the poor nations?? The question is moot ? only you people out there can say, or do by saying. Julian PS It?s good that in some parts of the world this information is still getting out. The middle east, and Africa, in many parts, maybe is more difficult. From: > on behalf of mike cole > Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Date: Thursday, 16 April 2020 at 18:36 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: FW: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News? There is absolutely nothing funny about the crypto fascists running this government, Julian. Trump is pushing towar monarchy in a fashion that might be funny if it were a Gilbert and Sullivan musical. mike On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 2:27 PM Julian Williams > wrote: Dear all, Kellyanne Conway ? I think I heard her name a while back ? what a Con, Ha ha? But perhaps not so very funny, right? God help us ? it all fits ? and now international pandemic and the next step is to defenestrate our only World Health Organisation? I can?t see anything short of a massive rebellion being an appropriate response? get those idiots out of the white house? Julian Subject: Fwd: Unbelievable White House counselor Kellyanne Conway falsely suggested Wednesday that there had been 18 previous strains of the novel coronavirus as she defended President Trump?s decision to suspend funding to the World Health Organization. "This is covid-19, not covid-1, folks, and so you would think the people charged with the World Health Organization facts and figures would be on top of that,? Conway said during an interview on Fox News. In fact, the ?19? at the end of the virus?s name denotes that it was discovered in 2019, not that it is the 19th strain of the virus. At its outset, it was referred to by health officials as the ?2019 novel coronavirus.? -- the creation of utopias ? and their exhaustive criticism ? is the proper and distinctive method of sociology. H.G.Wells --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200417/1d014fc6/attachment.html From huw.softdesigns@gmail.com Fri Apr 17 14:51:46 2020 From: huw.softdesigns@gmail.com (Huw Lloyd) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 22:51:46 +0100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News? In-Reply-To: <9BA3817B-B869-4195-AE66-8ED58264B8C4@gmail.com> References: <67D4C8C6-80FE-4A0B-9D32-34AE80FFF490@manchester.ac.uk> <751BD885-98FE-4A3A-BE61-C1F737FC199B@umich.edu> <9BA3817B-B869-4195-AE66-8ED58264B8C4@gmail.com> Message-ID: The following may help bring things together, and move things forward: 1. In response to Greg's request for anything more profound, I offer a greater degree of self-awareness, in contribution towards both cognition, appreciation, and the spiritual. 2. In response to David's pointing to naming conventions. Yes, this is relevant. And one can look to parallels with respect to the manner of encountering historical ideas. E.g. the dialectical naming of "sociotechnical" or "participant observer". 3. With respect to Bonnie's referencing personality in relation to CHAT/AT. >From a developmental perspective one can certainly enquire into this productively. The approach I have taken uses intentionality or active orientation as a unit that represents a synthesis of cognition, emotion, movement etc -- which are typically considered as a platform for personality (e.g. MBTI). 4. Regarding distance learning. It strikes me as a natural means of student self-selection regarding engagement and enquiry. One would hope that turning up and switching off is less viable -- though this still seems to be happening in work meetings from what I can gather. Perhaps all these calamities will also help people get over the hump of the post-modernist view that "every view is equal', and recognise that there is leverage in the structuring and nesting of views of different scope. Best, Huw On Fri, 17 Apr 2020 at 21:21, Helena Worthen wrote: > IMHO, ?elaborations in which political positions are qualified as part of > our arguments? are vital to the relevance of this list. > > The Vygotskian tradition?s roots go deep in a period of tumultuous, > dangerous change ? the Russian revolution - and the people who formulated > it did so in the face of threats, loss of livelihood, suppression of > research, etc. not so much because their work was revolutionary but because > there was a revolution going on around them, stones flying everywhere. > Vygotsky was essential to the creation of education systems in other > countries in extreme conditions ? my knowledge of this comes from Vietnam. > Vygotsky finally came to the US despite McCarthyism etc. but here, over the > last 30-40 years, CHAT has been, as I think we have agreed, domesticated > and cured of its politics, to its detriment. > > Drawing the Vygotskian tradition and its current expressions back into the > fray, weaving theory and the facts of the current crisis together, won?t be > a bump-free project, but let?s keep on with it. > > Generally speaking, avoiding irony, sarcasm and other things that rely on > tone of voice, and calling out someone by name --not usually good even in > praise (because it turns into a one-on-one). > > Other than that, I?m not worried, I think we?re doing fine. ? > > Helena Worthen > hworthen@illinois.edu > > > > > > > > > On Apr 17, 2020, at 11:47 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > wrote: > > Dear friends, > > It seems that this discussion is raising a number of interesting > challenges with regards to how to co-habit this list worth considering, and > always in the most respectful manner. > > One thing that I think is clear and always takes place is that when > members use irony and/or sarcasm, even in as well intentioned as in the > post that started this thread, there is the risk that people do not find it > appropriate. It is not that this happens always, but obviously is something > to consider before posting on those terms. I believe irony is a healthy and > important resource to keep with us, just knowing it is, by nature, a > double-edged sword. > > The other thing, which I believe is more challenging, is that, as it?s > been made clear by a few participants, and by the way in the most > considerate manner (thanks!), is that elaborations in which political > positions are qualified as part of our arguments may be experienced as > inappropriate. And I wonder what to do with this as a community? This is > particularly difficult because, at least as I see it, disconnecting > politics from theory, in a list in which issues of human mind and activity > are intrinsically connected to culture, is really not possible. What would > we discuss, as a community interested in CHAT related issues, if not issues > of politics, of social in/justice, as they relate to our present and > futures? And how can we discuss it without making reference to the > concrete, specific historical cases, public figures, parties, realities of > the countries we live in? > > And please, I am not here defending that this thread should continue, or > that there would not be reason to feel it is not appropriate. I am just > ignorant enough to realize that I have no clue as to what sort of > moderation is appropriate here. So I would appreciate if no references to A > has said this, or B has done that, are made; but would appreciate a lot a > bit of help on this issue. I think that ignoring our colleague?s concerns > and sensitivities is not right. But censoring political discussions, if > these are voiced as part of an analysis of current matters of > socio-historical relevance, does not feel right either. And please, note > that many of us are not US citizens or residents, so you?ll have to excuse > our ignorance. > > Thanks, > Alfredo > *From: * on behalf of Edward Wall < > ewall@umich.edu> > *Reply to: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > *Date: *Friday, 17 April 2020 at 01:07 > *To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox > News? > > Dear All > > I would appreciate if we could take such discussions off list, It is > not that I don?t sympathize with the voiced frustrations, but I wish you > would vent them elsewhere and elsewhen. > > Ed > > Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a > sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is. > > > On Apr 16, 2020, at 5:40 PM, Bonnie Nardi wrote: > > Watching the debacle of Trump reveals, to me at least, how important class > analysis is. Trump is deranged, and his everyday actions fall completely > outside all social norms of decency, yet he is *consistently supported* by > (1) his Republican cohorts, (2) big business (Bill Gates: ?I don?t rule out > voting for Trump if I have to pay too much in taxes??) and (3) the > alienated/uneducated class who?d rather at least have the fun of throwing a > brick through the window than put up with any more PC bs (or abortion > rights or separation of church and state). A potent and scary mix. The > "complicity" Greg mentioned has several sources, all class-based in my > view, but oddly variable. > > Trump is a symptom of a society running off the rails. He could not have > come to power had not the underlying conditions been ripe for it. He wasn?t > the lesser of two evils for many voters ? he was finally someone who they > thought spoke for them whether they occupied corporate boardrooms or NASCAR > bleachers or evangelical pews. Europe is also producing fascist-leaning > leaders and other places have them firmly ensconced. > > It?s damn weird to me that we?ve gone, in my lifetime, from U.S. > leadership in gay rights, civil rights, disability rights, and > environmentalism, to the current horrendous situation. (Europe has > implemented better environmental policies but the groundwork was laid in > the U.S.) I love the U.S. the way a parent still loves a teenager gone bad, > but that?s beside the point, this is now global, as Julian points out. We > are all in this together. Neoliberalism deftly divides us (I see it, e.g., > in the virus discussions about how old people, are, let?s face it, > expendable, and we worry too much about them -- the young need to get back > to work, etc. There?s as much of this on reddit as there is from > Republicans.) > > What to do? The first thing is to rethink what a society can and should > be. As part of this exercise I recommend Andre Gorz's *Paths to Paradise*. > It's short, sweet, and prescient. Gorz recognized that environmental > problems come from too much frenetic economic activity and that we are > spending too much of our lives in alienating workplaces. He recommended a > lot more automation and a lot more sharing of wealth. He has been a > touchstone for me and others in the Computing within LIMITS community (see > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://computingwithinlimits.org/2020/__;!!Mih3wA!UgKvMi_Q37bMHLTeW45cS9hBvkeNx_rfVCA8EB1EtGiwf3QhpgZ5IcCTLUQfvtwS0IRF_g$ > > for all the papers going back to 2015). > > I think we absolutely have to address the big picture and smaller efforts > (like growing meat in labs and so on) are not going to do much. > > The pandemic has shown Gorz to be right about the environment -- I have > been astonished at how quickly air and water are clearing, how animals are > benefiting, etc. I didn't expect all that to happen so fast. In the San > Francisco Bay Area where I live, air pollution is down 40%. There's lots of > good media reporting on these kinds of changes which are global. > > I think we must look to what CHAT has written about personality. I have > never really understood that work but I sense that it's important. The > culture now produces neoliberal "entrepreneurs" with their self-branding > and paddle-your-own-canoe philosophies, but other eras produced other > types. I live in a coastal town, and while the beach parking lots are > closed, the surfers, walkers, and cyclists are out when they aren't > normally out. They are probably getting their work done virtually in less > time than normal (without a commute and the distractions of the office), > and doing what they love doing! Maybe we need a world of walkers and > surfers -- that personality type. I'd be happy if people were more focused > on knitting, and baking, and carpentry -- all those homely ways of > producing rather than working, often for very little money, so they can buy > everything at the store. Most of it ends up in landfills, by design, or, if > it's food, it is so awful it contributes to the chronic diseases. Or > working hard at high end jobs and ending up feeling one is entitled to what > one has (the Bay Area has been badly affected by this) and that if you are > poor it's kind of your own fault. > > Yes, I recognize that staying home more has costs and that we can't > produce everything ourselves, but the solution to the big picture is not to > send everyone off to the workplace for most of their lives but to address > issues of violence, production, quality of life, and so on in direct ways. > We can't rely on by-products of our current work habits to stem violence, > for example. That is just not right. > > The post-growth movement in Europe is doing thoughtful work, and I > recommend what they write. They cite Gorz (as well as Gandhi, Donella > Meadows, and so on), and I think they are on the right track. > > Best, > > - > > Bonnie > > > > > Bonnie Nardi > Professor (Emer.) > Department of Informatics > School of Information and Computer Sciences > 5088 Bren Hall > UC Irvine 92697-3440 > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://darrouzet-nardi.net/bonnie__;!!Mih3wA!UgKvMi_Q37bMHLTeW45cS9hBvkeNx_rfVCA8EB1EtGiwf3QhpgZ5IcCTLUQfvtzMWwlXDw$ > > NEW BOOK: Heteromation and Other Stories of Computing and > Capitalism (with Hamid Ekbia, MIT Press, 2017) > > > On Apr 16, 2020, at 11:14 AM, Julian Williams < > julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk> wrote: > > Mike, hi > > Surely not funny, of course. And we should have an even greater concern > about India, where 1.4billion people are supposedly ?shut down? ( actually, > many millions are walking hundreds of miles ?home? from the cities to their > villages, wearing masks, but .. ), and nationalist, anti-Muslim extremism > - rampant before the crisis ? is growing: > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.democracynow.org/2020/4/16/arundhati_roy_coronavirus_india?utm_source=Democracy*Now*21&utm_campaign=5b85440b98-Daily_Digest_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_fa2346a853-5b85440b98-192514813__;KyU!!Mih3wA!UgKvMi_Q37bMHLTeW45cS9hBvkeNx_rfVCA8EB1EtGiwf3QhpgZ5IcCTLUQfvtzOoV1DSw$ > > > We can anticipate at least 40 million deaths in India if this gets going > - and the fascists are planning to emerge dominant from this ? all > encouraged by your big man in the WH. > > These deaths will perhaps make the holocaust seem like small fry ? will we > ever see trials for crimes against humanity? Perhaps not, because it will > be difficult to pin these deaths on to intentional action, but maybe there > should be a crime for intentional inaction? The abject state of public > health systems (long term) and the incompetence and political management > (short term) being the main charges. > > Then in the US we can see some analyses of the way the deaths are hugely > discriminatory against black/ethnic minorities and the poor: ?More than > 70 per cent of COVID-19 deaths in the state of Louisiana were > African-Americans, despite accounting for just a third of the general > population. In New York City it's 17 per cent of deaths, for a 9 per cent > share of residents.? > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-16/drum-covid-african-american-affected/12153268__;!!Mih3wA!UgKvMi_Q37bMHLTeW45cS9hBvkeNx_rfVCA8EB1EtGiwf3QhpgZ5IcCTLUQfvtz5hRvK6w$ > Globally > translated ? this will become a terrible indictment of the world?s > structure of poverty: > > I had to pause the other day ? is this kind of admittedly political > posting appropriate to xmca listserve?s concerns: I think that?s a question > for xmca ? ?are we/is xmca relevant to the millions of deaths likely as the > pandemic spreads to the poor nations?? The question is moot ? only you > people out there can say, or do by saying. > > Julian > > PS It?s good that in some parts of the world this information is still > getting out. The middle east, and Africa, in many parts, maybe is more > difficult. > > *From: * on behalf of mike cole < > mcole@ucsd.edu> > *Reply-To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > *Date: *Thursday, 16 April 2020 at 18:36 > *To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: FW: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to > Fox News? > > There is absolutely nothing funny about the crypto fascists running this > government, Julian. > Trump is pushing towar monarchy in a fashion that might be funny if it > were a Gilbert and Sullivan > musical. > mike > > On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 2:27 PM Julian Williams < > julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk> wrote: > > Dear all, > > Kellyanne *Conwa*y ? I think I heard her name a while back ? what a Con, > Ha ha? > > But perhaps not so very funny, right? > > God help us ? it all fits ? and now international pandemic and the next > step is to defenestrate our only World Health Organisation? > > I can?t see anything short of a massive rebellion being an appropriate > response? get those idiots out of the white house? > > Julian > > > *Subject: *Fwd: Unbelievable > > White House counselor Kellyanne Conway falsely suggested Wednesday that > there had been 18 previous strains of the novel coronavirus as she defended > President Trump?s decision to suspend funding to the World Health > Organization. > > "This is covid-19, not covid-1, folks, and so you would think the people > charged with the World Health Organization facts and figures would be on > top of that,? Conway said during an interview on Fox News. > > In fact, the ?19? at the end of the virus?s name denotes that it was > discovered in 2019, not that it is the 19th strain of the virus. At its > outset, it was referred to by health officials as the ?2019 novel > coronavirus.? > > > > > > > -- > > the creation of utopias ? and their exhaustive criticism ? is the proper > and distinctive method of sociology. H.G.Wells > > --------------------------------------------------- > For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other > members of LCHC, visit > lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the > research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200417/1cf38f82/attachment.html From robsub@ariadne.org.uk Fri Apr 17 15:35:46 2020 From: robsub@ariadne.org.uk (robsub@ariadne.org.uk) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 23:35:46 +0100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News? In-Reply-To: References: <67D4C8C6-80FE-4A0B-9D32-34AE80FFF490@manchester.ac.uk> <751BD885-98FE-4A3A-BE61-C1F737FC199B@umich.edu> <9BA3817B-B869-4195-AE66-8ED58264B8C4@gmail.com> Message-ID: Huw: "Regarding distance learning. It strikes me as a natural means of student self-selection regarding engagement and enquiry. One would hope that turning up and switching off is less viable -- though this still seems to be happening in work meetings from what I can gather" From Twitter yesterday: "Found the kid playing with her dog instead of Zooming with her teacher. She told me not to worry. She took a screenshot of herself ?paying attention,? then cut her video & replaced it with the picture. ?It?s a gallery view of 20 kids, mom. They can?t tell.?" But on a more serious note, how are we comparing online and face to face presence? If we give a lecture lasting, say, an hour, how many students are paying attention for the whole hour? None. For half an hour, maybe? Or even less. People are very good at dissembling, at appearing to pay attention when their mind is elsewhere or has zoned out. Arguably learning online has more distractions and less of a requirement to appear to be paying attention, but it's possible that - if it's done well - the students may gain more by being able to ration their attention more effectively than they can in a sleepy lecture hall. The comparison is perfect for the activity theory triangle. The instruments - the human voice and the computer screen - have such different and manifold affordances. Rob On 17/04/2020 22:51, Huw Lloyd wrote: > The following may help bring things together, and move things forward: > > 1. In response to Greg's request for anything more profound, I offer a > greater degree of self-awareness, in contribution towards both > cognition, appreciation, and the spiritual. > 2. In response to David's pointing to naming conventions. Yes, this is > relevant. And one can look to parallels with respect to the manner of > encountering historical ideas. E.g. the dialectical?naming of > "sociotechnical" or "participant observer". > 3. With respect to Bonnie's referencing personality in relation to > CHAT/AT. From a developmental perspective one can certainly enquire > into this productively. The approach I have taken uses intentionality > or active orientation as a unit that represents a synthesis?of > cognition, emotion, movement etc -- which are typically considered as > a platform for personality (e.g. MBTI). > 4. Regarding distance learning. It strikes me as a natural means of > student self-selection regarding engagement and enquiry. One would > hope that turning up and switching off is less viable -- though this > still seems to be happening in work meetings from what I can gather. > > Perhaps all these calamities will also help people get over the hump > of the post-modernist?view that "every view is equal', and recognise > that there is leverage in the structuring and nesting of views of > different scope. > > Best, > Huw > > > On Fri, 17 Apr 2020 at 21:21, Helena Worthen > wrote: > > IMHO, ?elaborations in which political positions are qualified as > part of our arguments? are vital to the relevance of this list. > > The Vygotskian tradition?s roots go deep in a period of > tumultuous, dangerous change?? the Russian revolution - and the > people who formulated it did so in the face of threats, loss of > livelihood, suppression of research, etc. not so much because > their work was revolutionary but because there was a revolution > going on around them, stones flying everywhere. Vygotsky was > essential to the creation of education systems in other countries > in extreme conditions?? my knowledge of this comes from Vietnam. > Vygotsky finally came to the US despite McCarthyism etc. but here, > over the last 30-40 years, CHAT has been, as I think we have > agreed, domesticated and cured of its politics, to its detriment. > > Drawing the Vygotskian tradition and its current expressions back > into the fray, weaving theory and the facts of the current crisis > together, won?t be a bump-free project, but let?s keep on with it. > > Generally speaking, avoiding irony, sarcasm and other things that > rely on tone of voice, and calling out someone by ?name --not > usually good even in praise (because it turns into a one-on-one). > > Other than that, I?m not worried, I think we?re doing fine. ?? > > Helena Worthen > hworthen@illinois.edu > > > > > > > > >> On Apr 17, 2020, at 11:47 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil >> > wrote: >> >> Dear friends, >> It seems that this discussion is raising a number of interesting >> challenges with regards to how to co-habit this list worth >> considering, and always in the most respectful manner. >> One thing that I think is clear and always takes place is that >> when members use irony and/or sarcasm, even in as well >> intentioned as in the post that started this thread, there is the >> risk that people do not find it appropriate. It is not that this >> happens always, but obviously is something to consider before >> posting on those terms. I believe irony is a healthy and >> important resource to keep with us, just knowing it is, by >> nature, a double-edged sword. >> The other thing, which I believe is more challenging, is that, as >> it?s been made clear by a few participants, and by the way in the >> most considerate manner (thanks!), is that elaborations in which >> political positions are qualified as part of our arguments may be >> experienced as inappropriate. And I wonder what to do with this >> as a community? This is particularly difficult because, at least >> as I see it, disconnecting politics from theory, in a list in >> which issues of human mind and activity are intrinsically >> connected to culture, is really not possible. What would we >> discuss, as a community interested in CHAT related issues, if not >> issues of politics, of social in/justice, as they relate to our >> present and futures? And how can we discuss it without making >> reference to the concrete, specific historical cases, public >> figures, parties, realities of the countries we live in? >> And please, I am not here defending that this thread should >> continue, or that there would not be reason to feel it is not >> appropriate. I am just ignorant enough to realize that I have no >> clue as to what sort of moderation is appropriate here. So I >> would appreciate if no references to A has said this, or B has >> done that, are made; but would appreciate a lot a bit of help on >> this issue. I think that ignoring our colleague?s concerns and >> sensitivities is not right. But censoring political discussions, >> if these are voiced as part of an analysis of current matters of >> socio-historical relevance, does not feel right either. And >> please, note that many of us are not US citizens or residents, so >> you?ll have to excuse our ignorance. >> Thanks, >> Alfredo >> *From:*> > on behalf of Edward >> Wall > >> *Reply to:*"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" >> > >> *Date:*Friday, 17 April 2020 at 01:07 >> *To:*"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > > >> *Subject:*[Xmca-l] Re: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according >> to Fox News? >> Dear All >> ? ?I would appreciate if we could take such discussions off list, >> It is not that I don?t sympathize with the voiced frustrations, >> but I wish you would vent them elsewhere and elsewhen. >> Ed >> Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is >> not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is. >> >> On Apr 16, 2020, at ?5:40 PM, Bonnie Nardi > > wrote: >> Watching the debacle of Trump reveals, to me at least, how >> important class analysis is. Trump is deranged, and his >> everyday actions fall completely outside all social norms of >> decency, yet he is /consistently supported/by (1) his >> Republican cohorts, (2) big business (Bill Gates: ?I don?t >> rule out voting for Trump if I have to pay too much in >> taxes??) and (3) the alienated/uneducated class who?d rather >> at least have the fun of throwing a brick through the window >> than put up with any more PC bs (or abortion rights or >> separation of church and state). A potent and scary mix. The >> "complicity" Greg mentioned has several sources, all >> class-based in my view, but oddly variable. >> Trump is a symptom of a society running off the rails. He >> could not have come to power had not the underlying >> conditions been ripe for it. He wasn?t the lesser of two >> evils for many voters ? he was finally someone who they >> thought spoke for them whether they occupied corporate >> boardrooms or NASCAR bleachers or evangelical pews. Europe is >> also producing fascist-leaning leaders and other places have >> them firmly ensconced. >> It?s damn weird to me that we?ve gone, in my lifetime, from >> U.S. leadership in gay rights, civil rights, disability >> rights, and environmentalism, ?to the current horrendous >> situation. (Europe has implemented better environmental >> policies but the groundwork was laid in the U.S.) I love the >> U.S. the way a parent still loves a teenager gone bad, but >> that?s beside the point, this is now global, as Julian points >> out.? We are all in this together. Neoliberalism deftly >> divides us (I see it, e.g., in the virus discussions about >> how old people, are, let?s face it, expendable, and we worry >> too much about them -- the young need to get back to work, >> etc. There?s as much of this on reddit as there is from >> Republicans.) >> What to do? The first thing is to rethink what a society can >> and should be. As part of this exercise I recommend Andre >> Gorz's /Paths to Paradise/. It's short, sweet, and prescient. >> Gorz recognized that environmental problems come from too >> much frenetic economic activity and that we are spending too >> much of our lives in alienating workplaces. He recommended a >> lot more automation and a lot more sharing of wealth. He has >> been a touchstone for me and others in the Computing within >> LIMITS community (seehttps://computingwithinlimits.org/2020/ >> for >> all the papers going back to 2015). >> I think we absolutely have to address the big picture and >> smaller efforts (like growing meat in labs and so on) are not >> going to do much. >> The pandemic has shown Gorz to be right about the environment >> -- I have been astonished at how quickly air and water are >> clearing, how animals are benefiting, etc. I didn't expect >> all that to happen so fast. In the San Francisco Bay Area >> where I live, air pollution is down 40%. There's lots of good >> media reporting on these kinds of changes which are global. >> I think we must look to what CHAT has written about >> personality. I have never really understood that work but I >> sense that it's important. The culture now produces >> neoliberal "entrepreneurs" with their self-branding and >> paddle-your-own-canoe philosophies, but other eras produced >> other types. I live in a coastal town, and while the beach >> parking lots are closed, the surfers, walkers, and cyclists >> are out when they aren't normally out. They are probably >> getting their work done virtually in less time than normal >> (without a commute and the distractions of the office), and >> doing what they love doing! Maybe we need a world of walkers >> and surfers -- that personality type. I'd be happy if people >> were more focused on knitting, and baking, and carpentry -- >> all those homely ways of producing rather than working, often >> for very little money, so they can buy everything at the >> store. Most of it ends up in landfills, by design, or, if >> it's food, it is so awful it contributes to the chronic >> diseases. Or working hard at high end jobs and ending up >> feeling one is entitled to what one has (the Bay Area has >> been badly affected by this) and that if you are poor it's >> kind of your own fault. >> Yes, I recognize that staying home more has costs and that we >> can't produce everything ourselves, but the solution to the >> big picture is not to send everyone off to the workplace for >> most of their lives but to address issues of violence, >> production, quality of life, and so on in direct ways. We >> can't rely on by-products of our current work habits to stem >> violence, for example. That is just not right. >> The post-growth movement in Europe is doing thoughtful work, >> and I recommend what they write. They cite Gorz (as well as >> Gandhi, Donella Meadows, and so on), and I think they are on >> the right track. >> Best, >> - >> Bonnie >> Bonnie Nardi >> Professor (Emer.) >> Department of Informatics >> School of Information and Computer?Sciences >> 5088 Bren Hall >> UC Irvine 92697-3440 >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://darrouzet-nardi.net/bonnie__;!!Mih3wA!XPTdwuxQTdVeYOWHTc83Xyn9Y2xr4VH373cJ0dyoZsxkE26xr6ehCbnlGt5p8H7-rX6J5g$ >> >> NEW BOOK:?Heteromation and Other?Stories of Computing and >> Capitalism?(with?Hamid Ekbia, MIT Press, 2017) >> >> >> On Apr 16, 2020, at 11:14 AM, Julian Williams >> > > wrote: >> Mike, hi >> Surely not funny, of course. And we should have an even >> greater concern about India, where 1.4billion people are >> supposedly ?shut down? ( actually, many millions are >> walking hundreds of miles ?home? from the cities to their >> villages, wearing masks, but .. ?), and nationalist, >> anti-Muslim extremism - rampant before the crisis ? is >> growing: >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.democracynow.org/2020/4/16/arundhati_roy_coronavirus_india?utm_source=Democracy*Now*21&utm_campaign=5b85440b98-Daily_Digest_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_fa2346a853-5b85440b98-192514813__;KyU!!Mih3wA!XPTdwuxQTdVeYOWHTc83Xyn9Y2xr4VH373cJ0dyoZsxkE26xr6ehCbnlGt5p8H7YknIuCQ$ >> >> We can anticipate at least 40 million deaths in India ?if >> this gets going - ?and the fascists are planning to >> emerge dominant from this ? all encouraged by your big >> man in the WH. >> These deaths will perhaps make the holocaust seem like >> small fry ? will we ever see trials for crimes against >> humanity? Perhaps not, because it will be difficult to >> pin these deaths on to intentional action, but maybe >> there should be a crime for intentional inaction? The >> abject state of public health systems (long term) and the >> incompetence and political management (short term) being >> the main charges. >> Then in the US we can see some analyses of the way the >> deaths are hugely discriminatory against black/ethnic >> minorities and the poor: ?More than 70 per cent of >> COVID-19 deaths in the state of Louisiana were >> African-Americans, despite accounting for just a third of >> the general population. In New York City it's 17 per cent >> of deaths, for a 9 per cent share of >> residents.?https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-16/drum-covid-african-american-affected/12153268__;!!Mih3wA!XPTdwuxQTdVeYOWHTc83Xyn9Y2xr4VH373cJ0dyoZsxkE26xr6ehCbnlGt5p8H7By8G6Qg$ >> ??Globally >> translated ? this will become a terrible indictment of >> the world?s structure of poverty: >> I had to pause the other day ? is this kind of admittedly >> political posting appropriate to xmca listserve?s >> concerns: I think that?s a question for xmca ? ?are we/is >> xmca relevant to the millions of deaths likely as the >> pandemic spreads to the poor nations?? The question is >> moot ? only you people out there can say, or do by saying. >> Julian >> PS It?s good that in some parts of the world this >> information is still getting out. The middle east, and >> Africa, in many parts, maybe is more difficult. >> *From: *> > on behalf of >> mike cole > >> *Reply-To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" >> > >> *Date: *Thursday, 16 April 2020 at 18:36 >> *To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" >> > >> *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: FW: Unbelievable: number 19th >> strain according to Fox News? >> There is absolutely nothing funny about the crypto >> fascists running this government, Julian. >> Trump is pushing towar monarchy in a fashion that might >> be funny if it were a Gilbert and Sullivan >> musical. >> mike >> On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 2:27 PM Julian Williams >> > > wrote: >> >> Dear all, >> Kellyanne *Conwa*y ? I think I heard her name a while >> back ? what a Con, Ha ha? >> But perhaps not so very funny, right? >> God help us ? it all fits ? and now international >> pandemic and the next step is to defenestrate our >> only World Health Organisation? >> I can?t see anything short of a massive rebellion >> being an appropriate response? get those idiots out >> of the white house? >> Julian >> >> *Subject: *Fwd: Unbelievable >> White House counselor Kellyanne Conway falsely >> suggested Wednesday that there had been 18 previous >> strains of the novel coronavirus as she defended >> President Trump?s decision to suspend funding to the >> World Health Organization. >> "This is covid-19, not covid-1, folks, and so you >> would think the people charged with the World Health >> Organization facts and figures would be on top of >> that,? Conway said during an interview on Fox News. >> In fact, the ?19? at the end of the virus?s name >> denotes that it was discovered in 2019, not that it >> is the 19th strain of the virus. At its outset, it >> was referred to by health officials as the ?2019 >> novel coronavirus.? >> >> >> -- >> >> the creation of utopias ? and their exhaustive >> criticism ? is the proper and distinctive method of >> sociology. H.G.Wells >> >> --------------------------------------------------- >> For archival resources relevant to the research of myself >> and other members of LCHC, visit >> lchc.ucsd.edu . For archival >> materials and a narrative history of the research of >> LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu >> . >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200417/9d6f4be9/attachment.html From julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk Fri Apr 17 15:44:22 2020 From: julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk (Julian Williams) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 22:44:22 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News? In-Reply-To: References: <67D4C8C6-80FE-4A0B-9D32-34AE80FFF490@manchester.ac.uk> <751BD885-98FE-4A3A-BE61-C1F737FC199B@umich.edu> Message-ID: <031974FF-961A-4C4A-97B8-038C48FFDBE6@manchester.ac.uk> Chuck I think the tensions in this discussion so far (though quite amenable really, I thought, considering the times we are dying in) aptly reflect the struggle sociocultural theory is going through re domestication of CHAT first signalled in some of the Westernisations of Vygotskyan work but after several decades now looking somewhat morbid. The contradictions underlying CHAT are now perhaps surfacing in the political positions adopted around concrete events. So there are defenders of Trumpism and the like in the list - as well perhaps as the various seriously contrasting fractions on the ?left? in the US; but internationally we have to be much better informed (we have learnt the virus has no boundaries). And we can ignore these political dimensions on this listserve, but only at the cost of showing how irrelevant our community/work then is to the political discourse that is so crucial to our survival these days. The evidence of ?life? (non scholae sed vita discimus ?) on this list is its capacity to address CHAT to the challenges we face, globally, and an analysis of the nexus of science/technology with policy and practice (globally - of course) is critical. The complete failure (and obvious ignorance or possibly deliberate stupidity) of the speakers from the White House is mirrored round the world in this respect; and we can see mass deaths everywhere ? especially of the poor - as the consequence. In the UK the State had the chance to learn from China, and then from Italy: it sat on its hands.And so on around the globe. This may be a means globally to generate a new solidarity of resistance ? but it needs ?theory? or a praxis, or concept that can unify it. Yes, Latour?s approach is good and well, but? We already have a global alliance of finance capital, and we have something like a growing alliance of its political supporters at least on the right (Trump, Modi, Bolsonaro, Johnson, and the petit-fascists in Eastern Europe and Africa, etc?) - they are organising internationally, but what are we doing (collecting survey results on how folks would like to change their local cultural parameters? Nice and I?m with this but please, can we, and do we have time to expand this ?) What about us? Who are ?we?? Are we irrelevant? What is the point of this if there is no ?us?? I am trying to elucidate a collective subject here ? and the object is IMO survival. Rage, rage against the dying of the light, ? to sleep and perchance to dream, good night , Julian PS To those who don?t want to see this discussion on xmca, I?d suggest they have the choice to simply delete everything on this thread ? they don?t have to close us down (why would they?). I have done this to quite a few threads coming from xmca which I felt irrelevant to my interests, and it?s really only slightly inconvenient ?. PPS Alfredo: apologies, I did not know you were responsible for moderating this (do you think fraught?) discussion. With the exception of this sentence, I have in response to your request checked the above post and eliminated irony, humour (mostly, given the need for balance), and sarcasm (but not passion, or hope, I hope ? after only 35 days of ?shielded? living, perhaps the kangaroos are getting loose in the top paddock, as they say down under ? ) From: on behalf of Charles Bazerman Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Date: Friday, 17 April 2020 at 20:41 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News? I do not understand why a discussion list devoted a the serious academic consideration of particular theories, analysis, approaches, findings, and applications that fall within its scope should avoid discussion of immediate pressing issues of great importance to the lives of all of our various communities, despite the range of views and analyses that might be brought to bear on the discussion, as long as all the analyses, findings, applications, etc present are presented according to serious academic standards. IF governments and economic institutions--along with individuals involved in their actions-- are core parts of the activity systems that affect how these issues impact our lives, of course these need to be examined, analyzed, evaluated, commented on. If forums devoted to medicine, epidemiology, economics, politics, international affairs etc can do that, I do not see why those devoted to activity theory should restrict themselves. What this does mean, however, is that calis need to be made responsibly, and where appropriate documented with credible evidence and sources--whether this has to do with historical namings of viruses as part of the evaluation of political or cultural actions or of the delivery of essential resources for the delivery of services in emergent and evolving circumstances. This also means that those who object to claims or discussions have an equal responsibility to provide detailed analysis, evidence, and arguments that would locate precisely and support their objections, rather than wishing in a broad stroke to banish whole ill-defined classes of discussion. The Latour inspired discussion of alternative futures is particularly appropriate to this list and of this moment. While I was writing in this email, for example, in the background I was listening to the Governor of California proposing community structures to come up with plans for recreating the economic and environmental structures post-crisis. As those details emerge, I would very much like to hear the analysis of members of the list to these proposals, as well as similar structures and plans emerging in other jurisdictions in this country and others. Chuck ---- ?? ??????????? ?????? ??? ?? ????? ??? ?????????? ???????? ??????? ?? ??? ?? ????????? Los Estados Unidos es una naci?n de inmigrantes. The U.S. is a nation of immigrants. History will judge. https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://bazerman.education.ucsb.edu/__;!!Mih3wA!UhKLiuqxacZS-i1G63Rmw9sVVTfmV8xXytMPAw-HxtBfXY_tGPKYTIuBLG5FptWL0Iej0A$ https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Charles_Bazerman__;!!Mih3wA!UhKLiuqxacZS-i1G63Rmw9sVVTfmV8xXytMPAw-HxtBfXY_tGPKYTIuBLG5FptWHXeUBuA$ https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.isawr.org__;!!Mih3wA!UhKLiuqxacZS-i1G63Rmw9sVVTfmV8xXytMPAw-HxtBfXY_tGPKYTIuBLG5FptU5oCrDrw$ On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 11:50 AM Alfredo Jornet Gil > wrote: Dear friends, It seems that this discussion is raising a number of interesting challenges with regards to how to co-habit this list worth considering, and always in the most respectful manner. One thing that I think is clear and always takes place is that when members use irony and/or sarcasm, even in as well intentioned as in the post that started this thread, there is the risk that people do not find it appropriate. It is not that this happens always, but obviously is something to consider before posting on those terms. I believe irony is a healthy and important resource to keep with us, just knowing it is, by nature, a double-edged sword. The other thing, which I believe is more challenging, is that, as it?s been made clear by a few participants, and by the way in the most considerate manner (thanks!), is that elaborations in which political positions are qualified as part of our arguments may be experienced as inappropriate. And I wonder what to do with this as a community? This is particularly difficult because, at least as I see it, disconnecting politics from theory, in a list in which issues of human mind and activity are intrinsically connected to culture, is really not possible. What would we discuss, as a community interested in CHAT related issues, if not issues of politics, of social in/justice, as they relate to our present and futures? And how can we discuss it without making reference to the concrete, specific historical cases, public figures, parties, realities of the countries we live in? And please, I am not here defending that this thread should continue, or that there would not be reason to feel it is not appropriate. I am just ignorant enough to realize that I have no clue as to what sort of moderation is appropriate here. So I would appreciate if no references to A has said this, or B has done that, are made; but would appreciate a lot a bit of help on this issue. I think that ignoring our colleague?s concerns and sensitivities is not right. But censoring political discussions, if these are voiced as part of an analysis of current matters of socio-historical relevance, does not feel right either. And please, note that many of us are not US citizens or residents, so you?ll have to excuse our ignorance. Thanks, Alfredo From: > on behalf of Edward Wall > Reply to: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Date: Friday, 17 April 2020 at 01:07 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News? Dear All I would appreciate if we could take such discussions off list, It is not that I don?t sympathize with the voiced frustrations, but I wish you would vent them elsewhere and elsewhen. Ed Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is. On Apr 16, 2020, at 5:40 PM, Bonnie Nardi > wrote: Watching the debacle of Trump reveals, to me at least, how important class analysis is. Trump is deranged, and his everyday actions fall completely outside all social norms of decency, yet he is consistently supported by (1) his Republican cohorts, (2) big business (Bill Gates: ?I don?t rule out voting for Trump if I have to pay too much in taxes??) and (3) the alienated/uneducated class who?d rather at least have the fun of throwing a brick through the window than put up with any more PC bs (or abortion rights or separation of church and state). A potent and scary mix. The "complicity" Greg mentioned has several sources, all class-based in my view, but oddly variable. Trump is a symptom of a society running off the rails. He could not have come to power had not the underlying conditions been ripe for it. He wasn?t the lesser of two evils for many voters ? he was finally someone who they thought spoke for them whether they occupied corporate boardrooms or NASCAR bleachers or evangelical pews. Europe is also producing fascist-leaning leaders and other places have them firmly ensconced. It?s damn weird to me that we?ve gone, in my lifetime, from U.S. leadership in gay rights, civil rights, disability rights, and environmentalism, to the current horrendous situation. (Europe has implemented better environmental policies but the groundwork was laid in the U.S.) I love the U.S. the way a parent still loves a teenager gone bad, but that?s beside the point, this is now global, as Julian points out. We are all in this together. Neoliberalism deftly divides us (I see it, e.g., in the virus discussions about how old people, are, let?s face it, expendable, and we worry too much about them -- the young need to get back to work, etc. There?s as much of this on reddit as there is from Republicans.) What to do? The first thing is to rethink what a society can and should be. As part of this exercise I recommend Andre Gorz's Paths to Paradise. It's short, sweet, and prescient. Gorz recognized that environmental problems come from too much frenetic economic activity and that we are spending too much of our lives in alienating workplaces. He recommended a lot more automation and a lot more sharing of wealth. He has been a touchstone for me and others in the Computing within LIMITS community (see https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://computingwithinlimits.org/2020/__;!!Mih3wA!UhKLiuqxacZS-i1G63Rmw9sVVTfmV8xXytMPAw-HxtBfXY_tGPKYTIuBLG5FptVps3871Q$ for all the papers going back to 2015). I think we absolutely have to address the big picture and smaller efforts (like growing meat in labs and so on) are not going to do much. The pandemic has shown Gorz to be right about the environment -- I have been astonished at how quickly air and water are clearing, how animals are benefiting, etc. I didn't expect all that to happen so fast. In the San Francisco Bay Area where I live, air pollution is down 40%. There's lots of good media reporting on these kinds of changes which are global. I think we must look to what CHAT has written about personality. I have never really understood that work but I sense that it's important. The culture now produces neoliberal "entrepreneurs" with their self-branding and paddle-your-own-canoe philosophies, but other eras produced other types. I live in a coastal town, and while the beach parking lots are closed, the surfers, walkers, and cyclists are out when they aren't normally out. They are probably getting their work done virtually in less time than normal (without a commute and the distractions of the office), and doing what they love doing! Maybe we need a world of walkers and surfers -- that personality type. I'd be happy if people were more focused on knitting, and baking, and carpentry -- all those homely ways of producing rather than working, often for very little money, so they can buy everything at the store. Most of it ends up in landfills, by design, or, if it's food, it is so awful it contributes to the chronic diseases. Or working hard at high end jobs and ending up feeling one is entitled to what one has (the Bay Area has been badly affected by this) and that if you are poor it's kind of your own fault. Yes, I recognize that staying home more has costs and that we can't produce everything ourselves, but the solution to the big picture is not to send everyone off to the workplace for most of their lives but to address issues of violence, production, quality of life, and so on in direct ways. We can't rely on by-products of our current work habits to stem violence, for example. That is just not right. The post-growth movement in Europe is doing thoughtful work, and I recommend what they write. They cite Gorz (as well as Gandhi, Donella Meadows, and so on), and I think they are on the right track. Best, - Bonnie Bonnie Nardi Professor (Emer.) Department of Informatics School of Information and Computer Sciences 5088 Bren Hall UC Irvine 92697-3440 https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://darrouzet-nardi.net/bonnie__;!!Mih3wA!UhKLiuqxacZS-i1G63Rmw9sVVTfmV8xXytMPAw-HxtBfXY_tGPKYTIuBLG5FptUQWKguUg$ NEW BOOK: Heteromation and Other Stories of Computing and Capitalism (with Hamid Ekbia, MIT Press, 2017) On Apr 16, 2020, at 11:14 AM, Julian Williams > wrote: Mike, hi Surely not funny, of course. And we should have an even greater concern about India, where 1.4billion people are supposedly ?shut down? ( actually, many millions are walking hundreds of miles ?home? from the cities to their villages, wearing masks, but .. ), and nationalist, anti-Muslim extremism - rampant before the crisis ? is growing: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.democracynow.org/2020/4/16/arundhati_roy_coronavirus_india?utm_source=Democracy*Now*21&utm_campaign=5b85440b98-Daily_Digest_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_fa2346a853-5b85440b98-192514813__;KyU!!Mih3wA!UhKLiuqxacZS-i1G63Rmw9sVVTfmV8xXytMPAw-HxtBfXY_tGPKYTIuBLG5FptVYGmn9Tw$ We can anticipate at least 40 million deaths in India if this gets going - and the fascists are planning to emerge dominant from this ? all encouraged by your big man in the WH. These deaths will perhaps make the holocaust seem like small fry ? will we ever see trials for crimes against humanity? Perhaps not, because it will be difficult to pin these deaths on to intentional action, but maybe there should be a crime for intentional inaction? The abject state of public health systems (long term) and the incompetence and political management (short term) being the main charges. Then in the US we can see some analyses of the way the deaths are hugely discriminatory against black/ethnic minorities and the poor: ?More than 70 per cent of COVID-19 deaths in the state of Louisiana were African-Americans, despite accounting for just a third of the general population. In New York City it's 17 per cent of deaths, for a 9 per cent share of residents.?https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-16/drum-covid-african-american-affected/12153268__;!!Mih3wA!UhKLiuqxacZS-i1G63Rmw9sVVTfmV8xXytMPAw-HxtBfXY_tGPKYTIuBLG5FptVWqaBv5Q$ Globally translated ? this will become a terrible indictment of the world?s structure of poverty: I had to pause the other day ? is this kind of admittedly political posting appropriate to xmca listserve?s concerns: I think that?s a question for xmca ? ?are we/is xmca relevant to the millions of deaths likely as the pandemic spreads to the poor nations?? The question is moot ? only you people out there can say, or do by saying. Julian PS It?s good that in some parts of the world this information is still getting out. The middle east, and Africa, in many parts, maybe is more difficult. From: > on behalf of mike cole > Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Date: Thursday, 16 April 2020 at 18:36 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: FW: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News? There is absolutely nothing funny about the crypto fascists running this government, Julian. Trump is pushing towar monarchy in a fashion that might be funny if it were a Gilbert and Sullivan musical. mike On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 2:27 PM Julian Williams > wrote: Dear all, Kellyanne Conway ? I think I heard her name a while back ? what a Con, Ha ha? But perhaps not so very funny, right? God help us ? it all fits ? and now international pandemic and the next step is to defenestrate our only World Health Organisation? I can?t see anything short of a massive rebellion being an appropriate response? get those idiots out of the white house? Julian Subject: Fwd: Unbelievable White House counselor Kellyanne Conway falsely suggested Wednesday that there had been 18 previous strains of the novel coronavirus as she defended President Trump?s decision to suspend funding to the World Health Organization. "This is covid-19, not covid-1, folks, and so you would think the people charged with the World Health Organization facts and figures would be on top of that,? Conway said during an interview on Fox News. In fact, the ?19? at the end of the virus?s name denotes that it was discovered in 2019, not that it is the 19th strain of the virus. At its outset, it was referred to by health officials as the ?2019 novel coronavirus.? -- the creation of utopias ? and their exhaustive criticism ? is the proper and distinctive method of sociology. H.G.Wells --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200417/d376b32f/attachment.html From mpacker@cantab.net Fri Apr 17 18:06:58 2020 From: mpacker@cantab.net (Martin Packer) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 20:06:58 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News? In-Reply-To: <031974FF-961A-4C4A-97B8-038C48FFDBE6@manchester.ac.uk> References: <67D4C8C6-80FE-4A0B-9D32-34AE80FFF490@manchester.ac.uk> <751BD885-98FE-4A3A-BE61-C1F737FC199B@umich.edu> <031974FF-961A-4C4A-97B8-038C48FFDBE6@manchester.ac.uk> Message-ID: <58AB834E-169B-45BD-A2D1-12F5B366D922@cantab.net> Hi Julien, The idea of a survey doesn?t exactly excite me either. But the open discussion of how we would like things to be different seems eminently doable and important. For example, I was saddened to read that one of the first companies trying to bring workers back is Boeing. Just what we need, I thought, more planes. And built by a company that doesn?t consider human factors in their designs. But, of course what Boeing is trying to work on is their ?defense? contracts. So that brings up the question, what is defense spending protecting us against, when it is at the cost of health care? When an aircraft carrier, nuclear-powered for heaven's sake, can be rendered inoperative in a few days by this virus. So we want to see a shift in priorities, from military to health care. The US needs a national health care system. It needs unemployment benefits in all states. And much more. The UK too needs more spending on the NHS. An end to austerity. And to combat climate change both countries (and others too) need rationing of air travel, decarbonization of industry, protection of wilderness, reforestation, and more. Obviously the current US administration would pay no attention to such proposals. But given the November election this is the perfect time to communicate to Biden and other democrats that a platform built around proposals such as these could get him into the White House. And perhaps Boris, given his brush with the infinite, may have changed his priorities? (Or was he just taking one for the team to build herd immunity?) Martin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200417/0919551b/attachment.html From andyb@marxists.org Fri Apr 17 19:46:30 2020 From: andyb@marxists.org (Andy Blunden) Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2020 12:46:30 +1000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid 19: Getting the Name Right In-Reply-To: References: <7e8825d5-88dd-a6b5-90a5-f859be35d27f@marxists.org> <1DD6CC80-2843-480C-B582-3BDEFE81993B@umich.edu> <709ecc53-7b65-348e-82dd-7af1080fd730@marxists.org> Message-ID: <82e37232-d580-6889-2de1-1f6268f8b073@marxists.org> You've made your point, Ed. Henceforth I will say "the 1919 Flu pandemic." andy ------------------------------------------------------------ *Andy Blunden* Hegel for Social Movements Home Page On 18/04/2020 4:23 am, Edward Wall wrote: > Regrettably, personal prejudices tend to produce answers > rather than questions. Of course, I speak only for myself. > > Ed > > Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he > is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him > for what he is. > >> On Apr 17, 2020, at ?2:01 AM, Andy Blunden >> > wrote: >> >> I read that in a book on the history of pandemics, about >> a decade ago. Can't remember the author. But I really >> hated what the author had to say about HIV, which he >> characterised as a "life-style" illness of homosexual >> men. So I checked his credentials with Prof. Short, an >> epidemiology expert at the University, who confirmed that >> the author was indeed authoritative, and it was >> unfortunate that his personal prejudices let him down >> when he came to HIV. So I took it that the Kansas story >> was legit. In any case, it was never anything to do with >> Spain. >> >> I see >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu*Hypotheses_about_the_source__;Iw!!Mih3wA!UTIVxuuWj2_bYMA5gFZ3IUiKbERO2aHSp0fZtxraDPGGqfliL1Lalb0OUn0STMY4_nDwDA$ >> >> has a number of hypotheses. >> >> Andy >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> *Andy Blunden* >> Hegel for Social Movements >> >> Home Page >> >> >> On 17/04/2020 3:45 pm, Edward Wall wrote: >>> An article I read in National Geographic (around 2014) >>> gave a quite different story as regard incubation. I >>> assume you are referring to a somewhat more recent and >>> trustworthy source? I?d appreciate the reference as I >>> used to study the mathematics behind things of this sort. >>> >>> Ed >>> >>> Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what >>> he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console >>> him for what he is. >>> >>>> On Apr 16, 2020, at ?9:54 PM, Andy Blunden >>>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> Well, the Americans did pretty well in naming the flu >>>> pandemic which was incubated in a military camp in >>>> Kansas and taken across the Atlantic to Spain en route >>>> to the carnage in France, the "Spanish Flu." >>>> >>>> Andy >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> *Andy Blunden* >>>> Hegel for Social Movements >>>> >>>> Home Page >>>> >>>> >>>> On 17/04/2020 8:21 am, Edward Wall wrote: >>>>> ? ? ? If you?all want to get picky about names you >>>>> might look here for some possibilities:. >>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/types.html__;!!Mih3wA!UTIVxuuWj2_bYMA5gFZ3IUiKbERO2aHSp0fZtxraDPGGqfliL1Lalb0OUn0STMZCpeLt8Q$ >>>>> . >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ? ? ? In any case, I find the other name: SARS-CoV-2 >>>>> ?far >>>>> more informative, far more relevant, and far more >>>>> disturbing as regards the situation at hand. >>>>> >>>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? Gadamer writes ?Thus a person who wants to >>>>> understands must question what lies behind what is >>>>> said. He must understand it as an answer to a >>>>> question. If we go back behind what is said then we >>>>> inevitably ask questions beyond what is said.? So, >>>>> perhaps, I have problems with a thinking that believes >>>>> it has landed on the ?correct? definition/answer (and >>>>> all other thinkers are fools) as that may well entail, >>>>> perhaps innocently, a curtailing of the crucial >>>>> question. I find that the the answer 'COVID-19? >>>>> obscures a lot (and, to be fair, does some illumination). >>>>> >>>>> Ed >>>>> Imagination was given to man to compensate him for >>>>> what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to >>>>> console him for what he is. >>>>> >>>>>> On Apr 16, 2020, at ?3:35 PM, David Kellogg >>>>>> > >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I?won't pretend to you that this is on my night >>>>>> table. Someone recently sent me the following quote >>>>>> from Hegel: >>>>>> >>>>>> ?For although it is commonly said that reasonable men >>>>>> pay attention not to the word but to the thing >>>>>> itself, yet this does not give us permission to >>>>>> describe a thing in terms inappropriate to it. For >>>>>> this is at once incompetence and deceit, to fancy and >>>>>> to pretend that one merely has not the right /word/, >>>>>> and to hide from oneself that really one has failed >>>>>> to get hold of the thing itself, i.e. the Notion. If >>>>>> one had the Notion, then one would also have the >>>>>> right word.? (p.198) ? sec. 329 >>>>>> >>>>>> Vygotsky liked to quote Tolstoy: ????? ????? ?????? >>>>>> ??????, ????? ?????? ??????? (the word is nearly (!) >>>>>> always read when the concept is ready) but it seems >>>>>> to me that in this case he would have stressed the >>>>>> word "nearly". There was a long debate over what to >>>>>> call Covid 19 at the WHO, and many people (including >>>>>> Michael Lin at Stanford) opine that they got it wrong. >>>>>> >>>>>> I?think that they got it right, but that it took a >>>>>> while. I don't think it is >>>>>> non-argument to point out that repeated attempts to >>>>>> change the name to "Chinese virus" or the nineteenth >>>>>> iteration of Covid or whatever are also motivated and >>>>>> not in a good way. >>>>>> >>>>>> More importantly (because as Hegel says mere >>>>>> incompetence and transparent self-deceit are?at stake >>>>>> in this instance) I think in most societies naming is >>>>>> a process--a child has different names at different >>>>>> times of life, and LSV is probaby wrong to treat >>>>>> naming as a single function of speech that is simply >>>>>> replaced by signifying and does not itself develop. >>>>>> >>>>>> What disturbs me about the Hegel quote (and LSV's >>>>>> obvious enthusiasm for it)?is that it seems to >>>>>> suggest that everything has, in the final analysis, >>>>>> only one correct name.?But perhaps it all depends on >>>>>> that final analysis. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> David Kellogg >>>>>> Sangmyung University >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical >>>>>> perusal of/Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and >>>>>> Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational action >>>>>> research'? in/Mind Culture and Activity// >>>>>> >>>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847__;!!Mih3wA!UTIVxuuWj2_bYMA5gFZ3IUiKbERO2aHSp0fZtxraDPGGqfliL1Lalb0OUn0STMZci9Gw5g$ >>>>>> >>>>>> / >>>>>> / >>>>>> Some free e-prints available at: >>>>>> >>>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080*10749039.2020.1745847__;Lw!!Mih3wA!UTIVxuuWj2_bYMA5gFZ3IUiKbERO2aHSp0fZtxraDPGGqfliL1Lalb0OUn0STMbjOdwk0w$ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. >>>>>> Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations >>>>>> of Pedology" >>>>>> >>>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!UTIVxuuWj2_bYMA5gFZ3IUiKbERO2aHSp0fZtxraDPGGqfliL1Lalb0OUn0STMavRhRTUA$ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200418/9b998b58/attachment-0001.html From andyb@marxists.org Fri Apr 17 20:14:09 2020 From: andyb@marxists.org (Andy Blunden) Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2020 13:14:09 +1000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News? In-Reply-To: <031974FF-961A-4C4A-97B8-038C48FFDBE6@manchester.ac.uk> References: <67D4C8C6-80FE-4A0B-9D32-34AE80FFF490@manchester.ac.uk> <751BD885-98FE-4A3A-BE61-C1F737FC199B@umich.edu> <031974FF-961A-4C4A-97B8-038C48FFDBE6@manchester.ac.uk> Message-ID: <93f3fd74-04b3-a005-6adb-f76eec85b7f0@marxists.org> I agree, Julian, that it would be quite untenable to forbid politics on this list. People in America are familiar with the "we can't discuss gun safety in the wake of this mass shooting" argument. We used to have the "we can't discuss climate change while this bushfire is going on" line. A few always rejected this mantra, but in the recent catastrophe it was blown sky high - everyone, surrounded by smoke and flames, was talking climate change, because we were all breathing it. That battle was won in Australia. It is exactly in the midst of a pandemic that we need to talk about political leadership, its successes and failures. The remarkable thing about our "daggy dad" is that the guy /changed/. After a career using racist rhetoric for political ends, after the Christchurch mosque massacre he dropped it altogether. Then after his disastrous non-leadership during the bushfire crisis - refusing to meet fire chiefs and going on holiday while the fires raged - he suddenly changed when the virus took off in China and created a "National Cabinet" together with State leaders and basically did almost everything a good national leader should do to unite the country. It is ironic though, that Australia he heading towards a return to normal after having suppressed the virus, within a quarantine wall - almost a parody of the Australian way. But as Alfredo says, it is possible to do it without irony, sarcasm and disrespect. When I write on this list I try to keep in my mind the couple of readers I know who are on the right-wing of politics, and remember that I am speaking to them. Of course, I use different terms at home among friends, but on a list like this we should say what we mean as if talking to a friend who thinks the exact opposite to is about the issue being discussed. I try anyway. But I forget sometimes. Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ *Andy Blunden* Hegel for Social Movements Home Page On 18/04/2020 8:44 am, Julian Williams wrote: > > Chuck > > I think the tensions in this discussion so far (though > quite amenable really, I thought, considering the times we > are dying in) aptly reflect the struggle sociocultural > theory is going through re domestication of CHAT first > signalled in some of the Westernisations of Vygotskyan > work but after several decades now looking somewhat > morbid. The contradictions underlying CHAT are now perhaps > surfacing in the political positions adopted around > concrete events. > > So there are defenders of Trumpism and the like in the > list - as well perhaps as the various seriously > contrasting fractions on the ?left? in the US; but > internationally we have to be much better informed (we > have learnt the virus has no boundaries). And we can > ignore these political dimensions on this listserve, but > only at the cost of showing how irrelevant our > community/work then is to the political discourse that is > so crucial to our survival these days. > > The evidence of ?life? (non scholae sed vita discimus ?) > ?on this list is its capacity to address CHAT to the > challenges we face, globally, and an analysis of the nexus > of science/technology with policy and practice (globally - > of course) ?is critical. The complete failure (and obvious > ignorance or possibly deliberate stupidity) of the > speakers from the White House is mirrored round the world > in this respect; and we can see mass deaths everywhere ? > especially of the poor - as the consequence. In the UK the > State had the chance to learn from China, and then from > Italy: it sat on its hands.And so on around the globe. > > This may be a means globally to generate a new solidarity > of resistance ? but it needs ?theory? or a praxis, or > concept that can unify it. Yes, Latour?s approach is good > and well, but? We already have a global ?alliance of > finance capital, and we have something like a growing > alliance of its political supporters at least on the right > (Trump, Modi, Bolsonaro, Johnson, and the petit-fascists > in Eastern Europe and Africa, etc?) ?- they are organising > internationally, but what are we doing (collecting survey > results on how folks would like to change their local > cultural parameters? Nice and I?m with this but please, > can we, and do we have time to expand this ?) > > What about us? Who are ?we?? ?Are we irrelevant? What is > the point of this if there is no ?us?? I am trying to > elucidate a collective subject here ? and the object is > IMO survival. > > Rage, rage against the dying of the light, ? ?to sleep and > perchance to dream, good night , > > Julian > > PS To those who don?t want to see this discussion on xmca, > I?d suggest they have the choice to simply delete > everything on this thread ? they don?t have to close us > down (why would they?). I have done this to quite a few > threads coming from xmca which I felt irrelevant to my > interests, and it?s really only slightly inconvenient ?. > > PPS Alfredo: apologies, I did not know you were > responsible for moderating this (do you think fraught?) > discussion. With the exception of this sentence, ?I have > in response to your request checked the above post and > eliminated irony, humour (mostly, given the need for > balance), and sarcasm (but not passion, or hope, ?I hope ? > after only 35 days of ?shielded? living, perhaps the > kangaroos are getting loose in the top paddock, as they > say down under ? ) > > *From: * on behalf of > Charles Bazerman > *Reply-To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > > *Date: *Friday, 17 April 2020 at 20:41 > *To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > > *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: Unbelievable: number 19th strain > according to Fox News? > > I do not understand why a discussion list devoted a the > serious academic?consideration?of particular theories, > analysis, approaches, findings, and applications that fall > within its scope should avoid discussion of immediate > pressing?issues of great importance to the lives of all of > our various communities, despite the range of views and > analyses that might be brought to bear on the discussion, > as long as all the analyses, findings, applications, etc > present?are presented according to serious academic > standards. IF?governments and economic institutions--along > with individuals involved in their?actions-- are core > parts of the activity systems that affect how these issues > impact our lives, of course these need to be examined, > analyzed, evaluated, commented on.? If forums devoted to > medicine, epidemiology, economics, politics, international > affairs etc can do that, I do not see why those devoted to > activity theory should restrict themselves. > > What this does mean, however, is that calis need to be > made responsibly, and where appropriate documented with > credible evidence and sources--whether this has to do with > historical namings of viruses as part of the evaluation of > political or cultural actions or of the delivery of > essential resources for the delivery of services in > emergent and evolving circumstances.? ?This also means > that those?who object to claims or discussions have an > equal responsibility to provide detailed analysis, > evidence, and arguments that would locate precisely and > support their objections, rather than wishing in a broad > stroke to banish whole ill-defined classes of discussion. > > The Latour inspired discussion of alternative futures is > particularly appropriate to this list and of this moment. > While I was writing in this email, for example, in the > background I was listening to the Governor of California > proposing community structures to come up with plans for > recreating the economic and environmental structures > post-crisis. As those details emerge, I would very much > like to hear the analysis of members of the list to these > proposals, as well as similar structures and plans > emerging in other jurisdictions in this country and others. > > Chuck > > ---- > > ?? ??????????? ?????? ??? ?? ????? ??? ?????????? > > ???????? ??????? ?? ??? ?? ????????? > > Los Estados Unidos es una naci?n de inmigrantes. > > The U.S. is a nation of immigrants. > > History will judge. > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://bazerman.education.ucsb.edu/__;!!Mih3wA!WbycFCYgkh8om_i7tK0KYwsUCfygCpb9sGaWVgWS6kQKA8nps1NOp9py-_UuUDngMGtqBA$ > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Charles_Bazerman__;!!Mih3wA!WbycFCYgkh8om_i7tK0KYwsUCfygCpb9sGaWVgWS6kQKA8nps1NOp9py-_UuUDmRtYB3iA$ > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.isawr.org__;!!Mih3wA!WbycFCYgkh8om_i7tK0KYwsUCfygCpb9sGaWVgWS6kQKA8nps1NOp9py-_UuUDng450qIA$ > > > On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 11:50 AM Alfredo Jornet Gil > > wrote: > > Dear friends, > > It seems that this discussion is raising a number of > interesting challenges with regards to how to co-habit > this list worth considering, and always in the most > respectful manner. > > One thing that I think is clear and always takes place > is that when members use irony and/or sarcasm, even in > as well intentioned as in the post that started this > thread, there is the risk that people do not find it > appropriate. It is not that this happens always, but > obviously is something to consider before posting on > those terms. I believe irony is a healthy and > important resource to keep with us, just knowing it > is, by nature, a double-edged sword. > > The other thing, which I believe is more challenging, > is that, as it?s been made clear by a few > participants, and by the way in the most considerate > manner (thanks!), is that elaborations in which > political positions are qualified as part of our > arguments may be experienced as inappropriate. And I > wonder what to do with this as a community? This is > particularly difficult because, at least as I see it, > disconnecting politics from theory, in a list in which > issues of human mind and activity are intrinsically > connected to culture, is really not possible. What > would we discuss, as a community interested in CHAT > related issues, if not issues of politics, of social > in/justice, as they relate to our present and futures? > And how can we discuss it without making reference to > the concrete, specific historical cases, public > figures, parties, realities of the countries we live in? > > And please, I am not here defending that this thread > should continue, or that there would not be reason to > feel it is not appropriate. I am just ignorant enough > to realize that I have no clue as to what sort of > moderation is appropriate here. So I would appreciate > if no references to A has said this, or B has done > that, are made; but would appreciate a lot a bit of > help on this issue. I think that ignoring our > colleague?s concerns and sensitivities is not right. > But censoring political discussions, if these are > voiced as part of an analysis of current matters of > socio-historical relevance, does not feel right > either. And please, note that many of us are not US > citizens or residents, so you?ll have to excuse our > ignorance. > > Thanks, > > Alfredo > > *From: * > on behalf of > Edward Wall > > *Reply to: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > > > *Date: *Friday, 17 April 2020 at 01:07 > *To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > > > *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: Unbelievable: number 19th > strain according to Fox News? > > Dear All > > ? ?I would appreciate if we could take such > discussions off list, It is not that I don?t > sympathize with the voiced frustrations, but I wish > you would vent them elsewhere and elsewhen. > > Ed > > Imagination was given to man to compensate him for > what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to > console him for what he is. > > On Apr 16, 2020, at ?5:40 PM, Bonnie Nardi > > wrote: > > Watching the debacle of Trump reveals, to me at > least, how important class analysis is. Trump is > deranged, and his everyday actions fall completely > outside all social norms of decency, yet he is > /consistently supported/ by (1) his Republican > cohorts, (2) big business (Bill Gates: ?I don?t > rule out voting for Trump if I have to pay too > much in taxes??) and (3) the alienated/uneducated > class who?d rather at least have the fun of > throwing a brick through the window than put up > with any more PC bs (or abortion rights or > separation of church and state). A potent and > scary mix. The "complicity" Greg mentioned has > several sources, all class-based in my view, but > oddly variable. > > Trump is a symptom of a society running off the > rails. He could not have come to power had not the > underlying conditions been ripe for it. He wasn?t > the lesser of two evils for many voters ? he was > finally someone who they thought spoke for them > whether they occupied corporate boardrooms or > NASCAR bleachers or evangelical pews. Europe is > also producing fascist-leaning leaders and other > places have them firmly ensconced. > > It?s damn weird to me that we?ve gone, in my > lifetime, from U.S. leadership in gay rights, > civil rights, disability rights, and > environmentalism, ?to the current horrendous > situation. (Europe has implemented better > environmental policies but the groundwork was laid > in the U.S.) I love the U.S. the way a parent > still loves a teenager gone bad, but that?s beside > the point, this is now global, as Julian points > out. We are all in this together. Neoliberalism > deftly divides us (I see it, e.g., in the virus > discussions about how old people, are, let?s face > it, expendable, and we worry too much about them > -- the young need to get back to work, etc. > There?s as much of this on reddit as there is from > Republicans.) > > What to do? The first thing is to rethink what a > society can and should be. As part of this > exercise I recommend Andre Gorz's /Paths to > Paradise/. It's short, sweet, and prescient. Gorz > recognized that environmental problems come from > too much frenetic economic activity and that we > are spending too much of our lives in alienating > workplaces. He recommended a lot more automation > and a lot more sharing of wealth. He has been a > touchstone for me and others in the Computing > within LIMITS community (see > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://computingwithinlimits.org/2020/__;!!Mih3wA!WbycFCYgkh8om_i7tK0KYwsUCfygCpb9sGaWVgWS6kQKA8nps1NOp9py-_UuUDlPbmpsWg$ > > for all the papers going back to 2015). > > I think we absolutely have to address the big > picture and smaller efforts (like growing meat in > labs and so on) are not going to do much. > > The pandemic has shown Gorz to be right about the > environment -- I have been astonished at how > quickly air and water are clearing, how animals > are benefiting, etc. I didn't expect all that to > happen so fast. In the San Francisco Bay Area > where I live, air pollution is down 40%. There's > lots of good media reporting on these kinds of > changes which are global. > > I think we must look to what CHAT has written > about personality. I have never really understood > that work but I sense that it's important. The > culture now produces neoliberal "entrepreneurs" > with their self-branding and paddle-your-own-canoe > philosophies, but other eras produced other types. > I live in a coastal town, and while the beach > parking lots are closed, the surfers, walkers, and > cyclists are out when they aren't normally out. > They are probably getting their work done > virtually in less time than normal (without a > commute and the distractions of the office), and > doing what they love doing!? Maybe we need a world > of walkers and surfers -- that personality type. > I'd be happy if people were more focused on > knitting, and baking, and carpentry -- all those > homely ways of producing rather than working, > often for very little money, so they can buy > everything at the store. Most of it ends up in > landfills, by design, or, if it's food, it is so > awful it contributes to the chronic diseases. Or > working hard at high end jobs and ending up > feeling one is entitled to what one has (the Bay > Area has been badly affected by this) and that if > you are poor it's kind of your own fault. > > Yes, I recognize that staying home more has costs > and that we can't produce everything ourselves, > but the solution to the big picture is not to send > everyone off to the workplace for most of their > lives but to address issues of violence, > production, quality of life, and so on in direct > ways. We can't rely on by-products of our current > work habits to stem violence, for example. That is > just not right. > > The post-growth movement in Europe is doing > thoughtful work, and I recommend what they write. > They cite Gorz (as well as Gandhi, Donella > Meadows, and so on), and I think they are on the > right track. > > Best, > > - > > Bonnie > > Bonnie Nardi > Professor (Emer.) > Department of Informatics > School of Information and Computer?Sciences > 5088 Bren Hall > UC Irvine 92697-3440 > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://darrouzet-nardi.net/bonnie__;!!Mih3wA!WbycFCYgkh8om_i7tK0KYwsUCfygCpb9sGaWVgWS6kQKA8nps1NOp9py-_UuUDmpGP6kkQ$ > > > NEW BOOK:?Heteromation and Other?Stories of > Computing and Capitalism?(with?Hamid Ekbia, MIT > Press, 2017) > > On Apr 16, 2020, at 11:14 AM, Julian Williams > > wrote: > > Mike, hi > > Surely not funny, of course. And we should > have an even greater concern about India, > where 1.4billion people are supposedly ?shut > down? ( actually, many millions are walking > hundreds of miles ?home? from the cities to > their villages, wearing masks, but .. ?), and > nationalist, anti-Muslim extremism - rampant > before the crisis ? is growing: > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.democracynow.org/2020/4/16/arundhati_roy_coronavirus_india?utm_source=Democracy*Now*21&utm_campaign=5b85440b98-Daily_Digest_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_fa2346a853-5b85440b98-192514813__;KyU!!Mih3wA!WbycFCYgkh8om_i7tK0KYwsUCfygCpb9sGaWVgWS6kQKA8nps1NOp9py-_UuUDlV3djQ2Q$ > > > We can anticipate at least 40 million deaths > in India ?if this gets going - ?and the > fascists are planning to emerge dominant from > this ? all encouraged by your big man in the WH. > > These deaths will perhaps make the holocaust > seem like small fry ? will we ever see trials > for crimes against humanity? Perhaps not, > because it will be difficult to pin these > deaths on to intentional action, but maybe > there should be a crime for intentional > inaction? The abject state of public health > systems (long term) and the incompetence and > political management (short term) being the > main charges. > > Then in the US we can see some analyses of the > way the deaths are hugely discriminatory > against black/ethnic minorities and the poor: > ?More than 70 per cent of COVID-19 deaths in > the state of Louisiana were African-Americans, > despite accounting for just a third of the > general population. In New York City it's 17 > per cent of deaths, for a 9 per cent share of > residents.?https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-16/drum-covid-african-american-affected/12153268__;!!Mih3wA!WbycFCYgkh8om_i7tK0KYwsUCfygCpb9sGaWVgWS6kQKA8nps1NOp9py-_UuUDlF3AH5Tw$ > ??Globally > translated ? this will become a terrible > indictment of the world?s structure of poverty: > > I had to pause the other day ? is this kind of > admittedly political posting appropriate to > xmca listserve?s concerns: I think that?s a > question for xmca ? ?are we/is xmca relevant > to the millions of deaths likely as the > pandemic spreads to the poor nations?? The > question is moot ? only you people out there > can say, or do by saying. > > Julian > > PS It?s good that in some parts of the world > this information is still getting out. The > middle east, and Africa, in many parts, maybe > is more difficult. > > *From: * > on > behalf of mike cole > > *Reply-To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > > > *Date: *Thursday, 16 April 2020 at 18:36 > *To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > > > *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: FW: Unbelievable: > number 19th strain according to Fox News? > > There is absolutely nothing funny about the > crypto fascists running this government, Julian. > > Trump is pushing towar monarchy in a fashion > that might be funny if it were a Gilbert and > Sullivan > > musical. > > mike > > On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 2:27 PM Julian > Williams > wrote: > > Dear all, > > Kellyanne *Conwa*y ? I think I heard her > name a while back ? what a Con, Ha ha? > > But perhaps not so very funny, right? > > God help us ? it all fits ? and now > international pandemic and the next step > is to defenestrate our only World Health > Organisation? > > I can?t see anything short of a massive > rebellion being an appropriate response? > get those idiots out of the white house? > > Julian > > > *Subject: *Fwd: Unbelievable > > White House counselor Kellyanne Conway > falsely suggested Wednesday that there had > been 18 previous strains of the novel > coronavirus as she defended President > Trump?s decision to suspend funding to the > World Health Organization. > > "This is covid-19, not covid-1, folks, and > so you would think the people charged with > the World Health Organization facts and > figures would be on top of that,? Conway > said during an interview on Fox News. > > In fact, the ?19? at the end of the > virus?s name denotes that it was > discovered in 2019, not that it is the > 19th strain of the virus. At its outset, > it was referred to by health officials as > the ?2019 novel coronavirus.? > > > -- > > the creation of utopias ? and their > exhaustive criticism ? is the proper and > distinctive method of sociology. H.G.Wells > > --------------------------------------------------- > > For archival resources relevant to the > research of myself and other members of LCHC, > visit > > lchc.ucsd.edu .? For > archival materials and a narrative history of > the research of LCHC, visit > lchcautobio.ucsd.edu > . > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200418/9a88957c/attachment.html From julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk Sat Apr 18 02:16:32 2020 From: julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk (Julian Williams) Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2020 09:16:32 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News? In-Reply-To: <58AB834E-169B-45BD-A2D1-12F5B366D922@cantab.net> References: <67D4C8C6-80FE-4A0B-9D32-34AE80FFF490@manchester.ac.uk> <751BD885-98FE-4A3A-BE61-C1F737FC199B@umich.edu> <031974FF-961A-4C4A-97B8-038C48FFDBE6@manchester.ac.uk> <58AB834E-169B-45BD-A2D1-12F5B366D922@cantab.net> Message-ID: <6C7FC8BB-339E-4BC4-B9ED-C42249B41C32@manchester.ac.uk> Martin I agree with you ? and I will even be using the Latour instrument, too, for local work at least (it?s not really a survey tool as you say). But this is all really about local practice, the big national and international questions of governance are mediated through the political/social movements and news media. In the UK, the government is in a bit of a mess, jumping round (herd immunity is gone, but still dithering over masks, etc) and leaping at anything that might look like potential good news, and one of their great problems is that they have spent the last 20 years arguing for outsourcing, privatisation, and shrinking the state and public services, so they are really not attuned to taking ?action?- they know about financial action, putting stuff out to tender and privatisation, etc, but actually establishing and running an organisation that shifts equipment around is not in their skill set, they bring n the army to do that . At least we do have a public health system, terribly emasculated as it is; on the other hand the social care system is in dire straits and has been terribly hit for many years by austerity? something like 1/3 to ? of our death rate is in care homes or just homes, and their numbers have not even been counted until the last few days (I guess this is a global phenomenon, we only get the numbers of those who make it into a hospital to die? ). A really unfortunate effect of isolation has been the closure of all proper politically organised activity in the Labour Party branches, though debate is burgeoning and we are riven by scandals breaking out since the elections, so not much of a chance of holding government to account for all their misjudgments and carelessness to date, and the news media as a whole is worse than useless. And there is hardly any sign of international collaboration. Some in the UN, WHO, in some science communities, and some in the EU, but all very weak. There are a few places where we can communicated internationally, and perhaps learn. As previously posted, the great fear after the West will be India/South Asia and Africa, IMO. I keep asking ?what can ?we? do?? ? Julian From: on behalf of Martin Packer Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Date: Saturday, 18 April 2020 at 02:10 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News? Hi Julien, The idea of a survey doesn?t exactly excite me either. But the open discussion of how we would like things to be different seems eminently doable and important. For example, I was saddened to read that one of the first companies trying to bring workers back is Boeing. Just what we need, I thought, more planes. And built by a company that doesn?t consider human factors in their designs. But, of course what Boeing is trying to work on is their ?defense? contracts. So that brings up the question, what is defense spending protecting us against, when it is at the cost of health care? When an aircraft carrier, nuclear-powered for heaven's sake, can be rendered inoperative in a few days by this virus. So we want to see a shift in priorities, from military to health care. The US needs a national health care system. It needs unemployment benefits in all states. And much more. The UK too needs more spending on the NHS. An end to austerity. And to combat climate change both countries (and others too) need rationing of air travel, decarbonization of industry, protection of wilderness, reforestation, and more. Obviously the current US administration would pay no attention to such proposals. But given the November election this is the perfect time to communicate to Biden and other democrats that a platform built around proposals such as these could get him into the White House. And perhaps Boris, given his brush with the infinite, may have changed his priorities? (Or was he just taking one for the team to build herd immunity?) Martin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200418/19ff3237/attachment.html From dkirsh@lsu.edu Sat Apr 18 03:57:11 2020 From: dkirsh@lsu.edu (David H Kirshner) Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2020 10:57:11 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News? In-Reply-To: <031974FF-961A-4C4A-97B8-038C48FFDBE6@manchester.ac.uk> References: <67D4C8C6-80FE-4A0B-9D32-34AE80FFF490@manchester.ac.uk> <751BD885-98FE-4A3A-BE61-C1F737FC199B@umich.edu> <031974FF-961A-4C4A-97B8-038C48FFDBE6@manchester.ac.uk> Message-ID: One of the strands of thought in this strand of emails is captured by Bonnie?s forceful plea that we address ourselves to the big problems of social, economic, and ecological disintegration accelerating in the world today: ?What to do? The first thing is to rethink what a society can and should be.? I couldn?t disagree more. The U.S. is on the verge of a fascist takeover of our democracy. We need to listen to Democratic primary voters who?ve said this is not the time for ideological projects aimed at making things right in the world. It?s a time to address ourselves to the politics of beating Trump. The way to do this, I think, is to expose and counteract the rhetorical attack on the ?deep state? that has been Trump?s wedge in distracting mainstream voters from his politicization of the apparatus of state. A couple of days ago I sent an email to top officials in the Biden campaign, outlining a campaign strategy. I?ve copied and pasted it below. ?but who expects any of these folks actually read unsolicited emails. I agree that this listserv should not be a forum for raw political dialogue. So if you can tie this post into the academic and intellectual substance of XMCA?s discourse, please reply-to-all. If you have advice about how to be effective in the political space of the U.S. election campaign, please reply offline. David _______ Posted to Biden staffers: I?m writing to you as close advisors to Joe?s campaign. I hope you have a moment to read a 3-paragraph campaign suggestion from a faithful Democrat. What is most dangerous about Donald Trump, and where he is most vulnerable with mainstream America, is his takeover and politicization of the federal bureaucracy. His guise for doing this is eradication of the ?deep state,? a phrase that has its contemporary origins in conservative politics as fear of the expansion of the bureaucracy?more government, without end. Because this fear has become fairly mainstream, it has provided acceptable cover for what he is really doing, politicizing the state apparatus. My suggestion for Biden?s campaign is that he focus on reclaiming the term ?deep state? as a vehicle for exposing and discrediting Trump. The ?deep state? that Trump is really attacking is the depth of experience, the depth of intellect, and the depth of loyalty to the constitution of our excellent civil service. The banner for each Biden ad is ?Trump is eradicating the Deep State,? which is followed by a profile of one of the civil servants that Trump has fired or hounded out of office (their experience, training, honors, etc.), and a segue to one of the political hacks that he?s appointed instead to head a key agency. ?If you want a civil service of dedicated, intelligent, and independent officials, then Joe Biden is your next president.? This campaign strategy makes the election about saving our government and our democracy. Sticking to it enables Joe to avoid running on issues of social justice and economic inequality that are the most divisive elements of the current Democratic coalition. It forces Trump to defend his conspiratorial view of the Deep State, a view that appeals only to his core supporters. He cannot win on the support of that thin base. David Kirshner dkirsh@lsu.edu 225-284-7595 From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu On Behalf Of Julian Williams Sent: Friday, April 17, 2020 5:44 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News? Chuck I think the tensions in this discussion so far (though quite amenable really, I thought, considering the times we are dying in) aptly reflect the struggle sociocultural theory is going through re domestication of CHAT first signalled in some of the Westernisations of Vygotskyan work but after several decades now looking somewhat morbid. The contradictions underlying CHAT are now perhaps surfacing in the political positions adopted around concrete events. So there are defenders of Trumpism and the like in the list - as well perhaps as the various seriously contrasting fractions on the ?left? in the US; but internationally we have to be much better informed (we have learnt the virus has no boundaries). And we can ignore these political dimensions on this listserve, but only at the cost of showing how irrelevant our community/work then is to the political discourse that is so crucial to our survival these days. The evidence of ?life? (non scholae sed vita discimus ?) on this list is its capacity to address CHAT to the challenges we face, globally, and an analysis of the nexus of science/technology with policy and practice (globally - of course) is critical. The complete failure (and obvious ignorance or possibly deliberate stupidity) of the speakers from the White House is mirrored round the world in this respect; and we can see mass deaths everywhere ? especially of the poor - as the consequence. In the UK the State had the chance to learn from China, and then from Italy: it sat on its hands.And so on around the globe. This may be a means globally to generate a new solidarity of resistance ? but it needs ?theory? or a praxis, or concept that can unify it. Yes, Latour?s approach is good and well, but? We already have a global alliance of finance capital, and we have something like a growing alliance of its political supporters at least on the right (Trump, Modi, Bolsonaro, Johnson, and the petit-fascists in Eastern Europe and Africa, etc?) - they are organising internationally, but what are we doing (collecting survey results on how folks would like to change their local cultural parameters? Nice and I?m with this but please, can we, and do we have time to expand this ?) What about us? Who are ?we?? Are we irrelevant? What is the point of this if there is no ?us?? I am trying to elucidate a collective subject here ? and the object is IMO survival. Rage, rage against the dying of the light, ? to sleep and perchance to dream, good night , Julian PS To those who don?t want to see this discussion on xmca, I?d suggest they have the choice to simply delete everything on this thread ? they don?t have to close us down (why would they?). I have done this to quite a few threads coming from xmca which I felt irrelevant to my interests, and it?s really only slightly inconvenient ?. PPS Alfredo: apologies, I did not know you were responsible for moderating this (do you think fraught?) discussion. With the exception of this sentence, I have in response to your request checked the above post and eliminated irony, humour (mostly, given the need for balance), and sarcasm (but not passion, or hope, I hope ? after only 35 days of ?shielded? living, perhaps the kangaroos are getting loose in the top paddock, as they say down under ? ) From: > on behalf of Charles Bazerman > Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Date: Friday, 17 April 2020 at 20:41 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News? I do not understand why a discussion list devoted a the serious academic consideration of particular theories, analysis, approaches, findings, and applications that fall within its scope should avoid discussion of immediate pressing issues of great importance to the lives of all of our various communities, despite the range of views and analyses that might be brought to bear on the discussion, as long as all the analyses, findings, applications, etc present are presented according to serious academic standards. IF governments and economic institutions--along with individuals involved in their actions-- are core parts of the activity systems that affect how these issues impact our lives, of course these need to be examined, analyzed, evaluated, commented on. If forums devoted to medicine, epidemiology, economics, politics, international affairs etc can do that, I do not see why those devoted to activity theory should restrict themselves. What this does mean, however, is that calis need to be made responsibly, and where appropriate documented with credible evidence and sources--whether this has to do with historical namings of viruses as part of the evaluation of political or cultural actions or of the delivery of essential resources for the delivery of services in emergent and evolving circumstances. This also means that those who object to claims or discussions have an equal responsibility to provide detailed analysis, evidence, and arguments that would locate precisely and support their objections, rather than wishing in a broad stroke to banish whole ill-defined classes of discussion. The Latour inspired discussion of alternative futures is particularly appropriate to this list and of this moment. While I was writing in this email, for example, in the background I was listening to the Governor of California proposing community structures to come up with plans for recreating the economic and environmental structures post-crisis. As those details emerge, I would very much like to hear the analysis of members of the list to these proposals, as well as similar structures and plans emerging in other jurisdictions in this country and others. Chuck ---- ?? ??????????? ?????? ??? ?? ????? ??? ?????????? ???????? ??????? ?? ??? ?? ????????? Los Estados Unidos es una naci?n de inmigrantes. The U.S. is a nation of immigrants. History will judge. https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://bazerman.education.ucsb.edu/__;!!Mih3wA!RPzKNDp8uUMXLR3uXgUoRqpyfP2Qwqytx4nFa4qj3nLZtwMeYC8Zw5jn5N0G6uZPHaSPfg$ https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Charles_Bazerman__;!!Mih3wA!RPzKNDp8uUMXLR3uXgUoRqpyfP2Qwqytx4nFa4qj3nLZtwMeYC8Zw5jn5N0G6uYVI-gmVw$ https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.isawr.org__;!!Mih3wA!RPzKNDp8uUMXLR3uXgUoRqpyfP2Qwqytx4nFa4qj3nLZtwMeYC8Zw5jn5N0G6uYhNjwXJg$ On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 11:50 AM Alfredo Jornet Gil > wrote: Dear friends, It seems that this discussion is raising a number of interesting challenges with regards to how to co-habit this list worth considering, and always in the most respectful manner. One thing that I think is clear and always takes place is that when members use irony and/or sarcasm, even in as well intentioned as in the post that started this thread, there is the risk that people do not find it appropriate. It is not that this happens always, but obviously is something to consider before posting on those terms. I believe irony is a healthy and important resource to keep with us, just knowing it is, by nature, a double-edged sword. The other thing, which I believe is more challenging, is that, as it?s been made clear by a few participants, and by the way in the most considerate manner (thanks!), is that elaborations in which political positions are qualified as part of our arguments may be experienced as inappropriate. And I wonder what to do with this as a community? This is particularly difficult because, at least as I see it, disconnecting politics from theory, in a list in which issues of human mind and activity are intrinsically connected to culture, is really not possible. What would we discuss, as a community interested in CHAT related issues, if not issues of politics, of social in/justice, as they relate to our present and futures? And how can we discuss it without making reference to the concrete, specific historical cases, public figures, parties, realities of the countries we live in? And please, I am not here defending that this thread should continue, or that there would not be reason to feel it is not appropriate. I am just ignorant enough to realize that I have no clue as to what sort of moderation is appropriate here. So I would appreciate if no references to A has said this, or B has done that, are made; but would appreciate a lot a bit of help on this issue. I think that ignoring our colleague?s concerns and sensitivities is not right. But censoring political discussions, if these are voiced as part of an analysis of current matters of socio-historical relevance, does not feel right either. And please, note that many of us are not US citizens or residents, so you?ll have to excuse our ignorance. Thanks, Alfredo From: > on behalf of Edward Wall > Reply to: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Date: Friday, 17 April 2020 at 01:07 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News? Dear All I would appreciate if we could take such discussions off list, It is not that I don?t sympathize with the voiced frustrations, but I wish you would vent them elsewhere and elsewhen. Ed Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is. On Apr 16, 2020, at 5:40 PM, Bonnie Nardi > wrote: Watching the debacle of Trump reveals, to me at least, how important class analysis is. Trump is deranged, and his everyday actions fall completely outside all social norms of decency, yet he is consistently supported by (1) his Republican cohorts, (2) big business (Bill Gates: ?I don?t rule out voting for Trump if I have to pay too much in taxes??) and (3) the alienated/uneducated class who?d rather at least have the fun of throwing a brick through the window than put up with any more PC bs (or abortion rights or separation of church and state). A potent and scary mix. The "complicity" Greg mentioned has several sources, all class-based in my view, but oddly variable. Trump is a symptom of a society running off the rails. He could not have come to power had not the underlying conditions been ripe for it. He wasn?t the lesser of two evils for many voters ? he was finally someone who they thought spoke for them whether they occupied corporate boardrooms or NASCAR bleachers or evangelical pews. Europe is also producing fascist-leaning leaders and other places have them firmly ensconced. It?s damn weird to me that we?ve gone, in my lifetime, from U.S. leadership in gay rights, civil rights, disability rights, and environmentalism, to the current horrendous situation. (Europe has implemented better environmental policies but the groundwork was laid in the U.S.) I love the U.S. the way a parent still loves a teenager gone bad, but that?s beside the point, this is now global, as Julian points out. We are all in this together. Neoliberalism deftly divides us (I see it, e.g., in the virus discussions about how old people, are, let?s face it, expendable, and we worry too much about them -- the young need to get back to work, etc. There?s as much of this on reddit as there is from Republicans.) What to do? The first thing is to rethink what a society can and should be. As part of this exercise I recommend Andre Gorz's Paths to Paradise. It's short, sweet, and prescient. Gorz recognized that environmental problems come from too much frenetic economic activity and that we are spending too much of our lives in alienating workplaces. He recommended a lot more automation and a lot more sharing of wealth. He has been a touchstone for me and others in the Computing within LIMITS community (see https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://computingwithinlimits.org/2020/__;!!Mih3wA!RPzKNDp8uUMXLR3uXgUoRqpyfP2Qwqytx4nFa4qj3nLZtwMeYC8Zw5jn5N0G6uYWSB-bHg$ for all the papers going back to 2015). I think we absolutely have to address the big picture and smaller efforts (like growing meat in labs and so on) are not going to do much. The pandemic has shown Gorz to be right about the environment -- I have been astonished at how quickly air and water are clearing, how animals are benefiting, etc. I didn't expect all that to happen so fast. In the San Francisco Bay Area where I live, air pollution is down 40%. There's lots of good media reporting on these kinds of changes which are global. I think we must look to what CHAT has written about personality. I have never really understood that work but I sense that it's important. The culture now produces neoliberal "entrepreneurs" with their self-branding and paddle-your-own-canoe philosophies, but other eras produced other types. I live in a coastal town, and while the beach parking lots are closed, the surfers, walkers, and cyclists are out when they aren't normally out. They are probably getting their work done virtually in less time than normal (without a commute and the distractions of the office), and doing what they love doing! Maybe we need a world of walkers and surfers -- that personality type. I'd be happy if people were more focused on knitting, and baking, and carpentry -- all those homely ways of producing rather than working, often for very little money, so they can buy everything at the store. Most of it ends up in landfills, by design, or, if it's food, it is so awful it contributes to the chronic diseases. Or working hard at high end jobs and ending up feeling one is entitled to what one has (the Bay Area has been badly affected by this) and that if you are poor it's kind of your own fault. Yes, I recognize that staying home more has costs and that we can't produce everything ourselves, but the solution to the big picture is not to send everyone off to the workplace for most of their lives but to address issues of violence, production, quality of life, and so on in direct ways. We can't rely on by-products of our current work habits to stem violence, for example. That is just not right. The post-growth movement in Europe is doing thoughtful work, and I recommend what they write. They cite Gorz (as well as Gandhi, Donella Meadows, and so on), and I think they are on the right track. Best, Bonnie Bonnie Nardi Professor (Emer.) Department of Informatics School of Information and Computer Sciences 5088 Bren Hall UC Irvine 92697-3440 https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://darrouzet-nardi.net/bonnie__;!!Mih3wA!RPzKNDp8uUMXLR3uXgUoRqpyfP2Qwqytx4nFa4qj3nLZtwMeYC8Zw5jn5N0G6ubesIOVYQ$ NEW BOOK: Heteromation and Other Stories of Computing and Capitalism (with Hamid Ekbia, MIT Press, 2017 On Apr 16, 2020, at 11:14 AM, Julian Williams > wrote: Mike, hi Surely not funny, of course. And we should have an even greater concern about India, where 1.4billion people are supposedly ?shut down? ( actually, many millions are walking hundreds of miles ?home? from the cities to their villages, wearing masks, but .. ), and nationalist, anti-Muslim extremism - rampant before the crisis ? is growing: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.democracynow.org/2020/4/16/arundhati_roy_coronavirus_india?utm_source=Democracy*Now*21&utm_campaign=5b85440b98-Daily_Digest_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_fa2346a853-5b85440b98-192514813__;KyU!!Mih3wA!RPzKNDp8uUMXLR3uXgUoRqpyfP2Qwqytx4nFa4qj3nLZtwMeYC8Zw5jn5N0G6uZxx8Q0PQ$ We can anticipate at least 40 million deaths in India if this gets going - and the fascists are planning to emerge dominant from this ? all encouraged by your big man in the WH. These deaths will perhaps make the holocaust seem like small fry ? will we ever see trials for crimes against humanity? Perhaps not, because it will be difficult to pin these deaths on to intentional action, but maybe there should be a crime for intentional inaction? The abject state of public health systems (long term) and the incompetence and political management (short term) being the main charges. Then in the US we can see some analyses of the way the deaths are hugely discriminatory against black/ethnic minorities and the poor: ?More than 70 per cent of COVID-19 deaths in the state of Louisiana were African-Americans, despite accounting for just a third of the general population. In New York City it's 17 per cent of deaths, for a 9 per cent share of residents.?https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-16/drum-covid-african-american-affected/12153268__;!!Mih3wA!RPzKNDp8uUMXLR3uXgUoRqpyfP2Qwqytx4nFa4qj3nLZtwMeYC8Zw5jn5N0G6uaEoOdxUA$ Globally translated ? this will become a terrible indictment of the world?s structure of poverty: I had to pause the other day ? is this kind of admittedly political posting appropriate to xmca listserve?s concerns: I think that?s a question for xmca ? ?are we/is xmca relevant to the millions of deaths likely as the pandemic spreads to the poor nations?? The question is moot ? only you people out there can say, or do by saying. Julian PS It?s good that in some parts of the world this information is still getting out. The middle east, and Africa, in many parts, maybe is more difficult. From: > on behalf of mike cole > Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Date: Thursday, 16 April 2020 at 18:36 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: FW: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News? There is absolutely nothing funny about the crypto fascists running this government, Julian. Trump is pushing towar monarchy in a fashion that might be funny if it were a Gilbert and Sullivan musical. mike On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 2:27 PM Julian Williams > wrote: Dear all, Kellyanne Conway ? I think I heard her name a while back ? what a Con, Ha ha? But perhaps not so very funny, right? God help us ? it all fits ? and now international pandemic and the next step is to defenestrate our only World Health Organisation? I can?t see anything short of a massive rebellion being an appropriate response? get those idiots out of the white house? Julian Subject: Fwd: Unbelievable White House counselor Kellyanne Conway falsely suggested Wednesday that there had been 18 previous strains of the novel coronavirus as she defended President Trump?s decision to suspend funding to the World Health Organization. "This is covid-19, not covid-1, folks, and so you would think the people charged with the World Health Organization facts and figures would be on top of that,? Conway said during an interview on Fox News. In fact, the ?19? at the end of the virus?s name denotes that it was discovered in 2019, not that it is the 19th strain of the virus. At its outset, it was referred to by health officials as the ?2019 novel coronavirus.? the creation of utopias ? and their exhaustive criticism ? is the proper and distinctive method of sociology. H.G.Wells --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200418/928fb007/attachment.html From huw.softdesigns@gmail.com Sat Apr 18 05:14:05 2020 From: huw.softdesigns@gmail.com (Huw Lloyd) Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2020 13:14:05 +0100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News? In-Reply-To: References: <67D4C8C6-80FE-4A0B-9D32-34AE80FFF490@manchester.ac.uk> <751BD885-98FE-4A3A-BE61-C1F737FC199B@umich.edu> <9BA3817B-B869-4195-AE66-8ED58264B8C4@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Rob, Yes, the prospect of remote guidance seems more conducive to developmental education. Huw On Fri, 17 Apr 2020 at 23:35, robsub@ariadne.org.uk wrote: > Huw: "Regarding distance learning. It strikes me as a natural means of > student self-selection regarding engagement and enquiry. One would hope > that turning up and switching off is less viable -- though this still seems > to be happening in work meetings from what I can gather" > > From Twitter yesterday: > > "Found the kid playing with her dog instead of Zooming with her teacher. > She told me not to worry. She took a screenshot of herself ?paying > attention,? then cut her video & replaced it with the picture. ?It?s a > gallery view of 20 kids, mom. They can?t tell.?" > > But on a more serious note, how are we comparing online and face to face > presence? If we give a lecture lasting, say, an hour, how many students are > paying attention for the whole hour? None. For half an hour, maybe? Or even > less. People are very good at dissembling, at appearing to pay attention > when their mind is elsewhere or has zoned out. > > Arguably learning online has more distractions and less of a requirement > to appear to be paying attention, but it's possible that - if it's done > well - the students may gain more by being able to ration their attention > more effectively than they can in a sleepy lecture hall. > > The comparison is perfect for the activity theory triangle. The > instruments - the human voice and the computer screen - have such different > and manifold affordances. > > Rob > > On 17/04/2020 22:51, Huw Lloyd wrote: > > The following may help bring things together, and move things forward: > > 1. In response to Greg's request for anything more profound, I offer a > greater degree of self-awareness, in contribution towards both cognition, > appreciation, and the spiritual. > 2. In response to David's pointing to naming conventions. Yes, this is > relevant. And one can look to parallels with respect to the manner of > encountering historical ideas. E.g. the dialectical naming of > "sociotechnical" or "participant observer". > 3. With respect to Bonnie's referencing personality in relation to > CHAT/AT. From a developmental perspective one can certainly enquire into > this productively. The approach I have taken uses intentionality or active > orientation as a unit that represents a synthesis of cognition, emotion, > movement etc -- which are typically considered as a platform for > personality (e.g. MBTI). > 4. Regarding distance learning. It strikes me as a natural means of > student self-selection regarding engagement and enquiry. One would hope > that turning up and switching off is less viable -- though this still seems > to be happening in work meetings from what I can gather. > > Perhaps all these calamities will also help people get over the hump of > the post-modernist view that "every view is equal', and recognise that > there is leverage in the structuring and nesting of views of different > scope. > > Best, > Huw > > > On Fri, 17 Apr 2020 at 21:21, Helena Worthen > wrote: > >> IMHO, ?elaborations in which political positions are qualified as part >> of our arguments? are vital to the relevance of this list. >> >> The Vygotskian tradition?s roots go deep in a period of tumultuous, >> dangerous change ? the Russian revolution - and the people who formulated >> it did so in the face of threats, loss of livelihood, suppression of >> research, etc. not so much because their work was revolutionary but because >> there was a revolution going on around them, stones flying everywhere. >> Vygotsky was essential to the creation of education systems in other >> countries in extreme conditions ? my knowledge of this comes from Vietnam. >> Vygotsky finally came to the US despite McCarthyism etc. but here, over the >> last 30-40 years, CHAT has been, as I think we have agreed, domesticated >> and cured of its politics, to its detriment. >> >> Drawing the Vygotskian tradition and its current expressions back into >> the fray, weaving theory and the facts of the current crisis together, >> won?t be a bump-free project, but let?s keep on with it. >> >> Generally speaking, avoiding irony, sarcasm and other things that rely on >> tone of voice, and calling out someone by name --not usually good even in >> praise (because it turns into a one-on-one). >> >> Other than that, I?m not worried, I think we?re doing fine. ? >> >> Helena Worthen >> hworthen@illinois.edu >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Apr 17, 2020, at 11:47 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil >> wrote: >> >> Dear friends, >> >> It seems that this discussion is raising a number of interesting >> challenges with regards to how to co-habit this list worth considering, and >> always in the most respectful manner. >> >> One thing that I think is clear and always takes place is that when >> members use irony and/or sarcasm, even in as well intentioned as in the >> post that started this thread, there is the risk that people do not find it >> appropriate. It is not that this happens always, but obviously is something >> to consider before posting on those terms. I believe irony is a healthy and >> important resource to keep with us, just knowing it is, by nature, a >> double-edged sword. >> >> The other thing, which I believe is more challenging, is that, as it?s >> been made clear by a few participants, and by the way in the most >> considerate manner (thanks!), is that elaborations in which political >> positions are qualified as part of our arguments may be experienced as >> inappropriate. And I wonder what to do with this as a community? This is >> particularly difficult because, at least as I see it, disconnecting >> politics from theory, in a list in which issues of human mind and activity >> are intrinsically connected to culture, is really not possible. What would >> we discuss, as a community interested in CHAT related issues, if not issues >> of politics, of social in/justice, as they relate to our present and >> futures? And how can we discuss it without making reference to the >> concrete, specific historical cases, public figures, parties, realities of >> the countries we live in? >> >> And please, I am not here defending that this thread should continue, or >> that there would not be reason to feel it is not appropriate. I am just >> ignorant enough to realize that I have no clue as to what sort of >> moderation is appropriate here. So I would appreciate if no references to A >> has said this, or B has done that, are made; but would appreciate a lot a >> bit of help on this issue. I think that ignoring our colleague?s concerns >> and sensitivities is not right. But censoring political discussions, if >> these are voiced as part of an analysis of current matters of >> socio-historical relevance, does not feel right either. And please, note >> that many of us are not US citizens or residents, so you?ll have to excuse >> our ignorance. >> >> Thanks, >> Alfredo >> *From: * on behalf of Edward Wall < >> ewall@umich.edu> >> *Reply to: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" >> *Date: *Friday, 17 April 2020 at 01:07 >> *To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" >> *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to >> Fox News? >> >> Dear All >> >> I would appreciate if we could take such discussions off list, It is >> not that I don?t sympathize with the voiced frustrations, but I wish you >> would vent them elsewhere and elsewhen. >> >> Ed >> >> Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a >> sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is. >> >> >> On Apr 16, 2020, at 5:40 PM, Bonnie Nardi wrote: >> >> Watching the debacle of Trump reveals, to me at least, how important >> class analysis is. Trump is deranged, and his everyday actions fall >> completely outside all social norms of decency, yet he is *consistently >> supported* by (1) his Republican cohorts, (2) big business (Bill Gates: >> ?I don?t rule out voting for Trump if I have to pay too much in taxes??) >> and (3) the alienated/uneducated class who?d rather at least have the fun >> of throwing a brick through the window than put up with any more PC bs (or >> abortion rights or separation of church and state). A potent and scary mix. >> The "complicity" Greg mentioned has several sources, all class-based in my >> view, but oddly variable. >> >> Trump is a symptom of a society running off the rails. He could not have >> come to power had not the underlying conditions been ripe for it. He wasn?t >> the lesser of two evils for many voters ? he was finally someone who they >> thought spoke for them whether they occupied corporate boardrooms or NASCAR >> bleachers or evangelical pews. Europe is also producing fascist-leaning >> leaders and other places have them firmly ensconced. >> >> It?s damn weird to me that we?ve gone, in my lifetime, from U.S. >> leadership in gay rights, civil rights, disability rights, and >> environmentalism, to the current horrendous situation. (Europe has >> implemented better environmental policies but the groundwork was laid in >> the U.S.) I love the U.S. the way a parent still loves a teenager gone bad, >> but that?s beside the point, this is now global, as Julian points out. We >> are all in this together. Neoliberalism deftly divides us (I see it, e.g., >> in the virus discussions about how old people, are, let?s face it, >> expendable, and we worry too much about them -- the young need to get back >> to work, etc. There?s as much of this on reddit as there is from >> Republicans.) >> >> What to do? The first thing is to rethink what a society can and should >> be. As part of this exercise I recommend Andre Gorz's *Paths to Paradise*. >> It's short, sweet, and prescient. Gorz recognized that environmental >> problems come from too much frenetic economic activity and that we are >> spending too much of our lives in alienating workplaces. He recommended a >> lot more automation and a lot more sharing of wealth. He has been a >> touchstone for me and others in the Computing within LIMITS community (see >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://computingwithinlimits.org/2020/__;!!Mih3wA!VD2aDvwDUecbbCZUQp2nzRXcmIgKhSVGV2zFcHlQ8i9BN-2P-VcVoCwhY9zo_Y46wgSOIw$ >> >> for all the papers going back to 2015). >> >> I think we absolutely have to address the big picture and smaller efforts >> (like growing meat in labs and so on) are not going to do much. >> >> The pandemic has shown Gorz to be right about the environment -- I have >> been astonished at how quickly air and water are clearing, how animals are >> benefiting, etc. I didn't expect all that to happen so fast. In the San >> Francisco Bay Area where I live, air pollution is down 40%. There's lots of >> good media reporting on these kinds of changes which are global. >> >> I think we must look to what CHAT has written about personality. I have >> never really understood that work but I sense that it's important. The >> culture now produces neoliberal "entrepreneurs" with their self-branding >> and paddle-your-own-canoe philosophies, but other eras produced other >> types. I live in a coastal town, and while the beach parking lots are >> closed, the surfers, walkers, and cyclists are out when they aren't >> normally out. They are probably getting their work done virtually in less >> time than normal (without a commute and the distractions of the office), >> and doing what they love doing! Maybe we need a world of walkers and >> surfers -- that personality type. I'd be happy if people were more focused >> on knitting, and baking, and carpentry -- all those homely ways of >> producing rather than working, often for very little money, so they can buy >> everything at the store. Most of it ends up in landfills, by design, or, if >> it's food, it is so awful it contributes to the chronic diseases. Or >> working hard at high end jobs and ending up feeling one is entitled to what >> one has (the Bay Area has been badly affected by this) and that if you are >> poor it's kind of your own fault. >> >> Yes, I recognize that staying home more has costs and that we can't >> produce everything ourselves, but the solution to the big picture is not to >> send everyone off to the workplace for most of their lives but to address >> issues of violence, production, quality of life, and so on in direct ways. >> We can't rely on by-products of our current work habits to stem violence, >> for example. That is just not right. >> >> The post-growth movement in Europe is doing thoughtful work, and I >> recommend what they write. They cite Gorz (as well as Gandhi, Donella >> Meadows, and so on), and I think they are on the right track. >> >> Best, >> >> - >> >> Bonnie >> >> >> >> >> Bonnie Nardi >> Professor (Emer.) >> Department of Informatics >> School of Information and Computer Sciences >> 5088 Bren Hall >> UC Irvine 92697-3440 >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://darrouzet-nardi.net/bonnie__;!!Mih3wA!VD2aDvwDUecbbCZUQp2nzRXcmIgKhSVGV2zFcHlQ8i9BN-2P-VcVoCwhY9zo_Y7Dxkvkyg$ >> >> NEW BOOK: Heteromation and Other Stories of Computing and >> Capitalism (with Hamid Ekbia, MIT Press, 2017) >> >> >> On Apr 16, 2020, at 11:14 AM, Julian Williams < >> julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk> wrote: >> >> Mike, hi >> >> Surely not funny, of course. And we should have an even greater concern >> about India, where 1.4billion people are supposedly ?shut down? ( actually, >> many millions are walking hundreds of miles ?home? from the cities to their >> villages, wearing masks, but .. ), and nationalist, anti-Muslim extremism >> - rampant before the crisis ? is growing: >> >> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.democracynow.org/2020/4/16/arundhati_roy_coronavirus_india?utm_source=Democracy*Now*21&utm_campaign=5b85440b98-Daily_Digest_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_fa2346a853-5b85440b98-192514813__;KyU!!Mih3wA!VD2aDvwDUecbbCZUQp2nzRXcmIgKhSVGV2zFcHlQ8i9BN-2P-VcVoCwhY9zo_Y5VKyIP3g$ >> >> >> We can anticipate at least 40 million deaths in India if this gets going >> - and the fascists are planning to emerge dominant from this ? all >> encouraged by your big man in the WH. >> >> These deaths will perhaps make the holocaust seem like small fry ? will >> we ever see trials for crimes against humanity? Perhaps not, because it >> will be difficult to pin these deaths on to intentional action, but maybe >> there should be a crime for intentional inaction? The abject state of >> public health systems (long term) and the incompetence and political >> management (short term) being the main charges. >> >> Then in the US we can see some analyses of the way the deaths are hugely >> discriminatory against black/ethnic minorities and the poor: ?More than >> 70 per cent of COVID-19 deaths in the state of Louisiana were >> African-Americans, despite accounting for just a third of the general >> population. In New York City it's 17 per cent of deaths, for a 9 per cent >> share of residents.? >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-16/drum-covid-african-american-affected/12153268__;!!Mih3wA!VD2aDvwDUecbbCZUQp2nzRXcmIgKhSVGV2zFcHlQ8i9BN-2P-VcVoCwhY9zo_Y5fGRdn_A$ >> Globally >> translated ? this will become a terrible indictment of the world?s >> structure of poverty: >> >> I had to pause the other day ? is this kind of admittedly political >> posting appropriate to xmca listserve?s concerns: I think that?s a question >> for xmca ? ?are we/is xmca relevant to the millions of deaths likely as the >> pandemic spreads to the poor nations?? The question is moot ? only you >> people out there can say, or do by saying. >> >> Julian >> >> PS It?s good that in some parts of the world this information is still >> getting out. The middle east, and Africa, in many parts, maybe is more >> difficult. >> >> *From: * on behalf of mike cole < >> mcole@ucsd.edu> >> *Reply-To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" >> *Date: *Thursday, 16 April 2020 at 18:36 >> *To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" >> *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: FW: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according >> to Fox News? >> >> There is absolutely nothing funny about the crypto fascists running this >> government, Julian. >> Trump is pushing towar monarchy in a fashion that might be funny if it >> were a Gilbert and Sullivan >> musical. >> mike >> >> On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 2:27 PM Julian Williams < >> julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk> wrote: >> >> Dear all, >> >> Kellyanne *Conwa*y ? I think I heard her name a while back ? what a Con, >> Ha ha? >> >> But perhaps not so very funny, right? >> >> God help us ? it all fits ? and now international pandemic and the next >> step is to defenestrate our only World Health Organisation? >> >> I can?t see anything short of a massive rebellion being an appropriate >> response? get those idiots out of the white house? >> >> Julian >> >> >> *Subject: *Fwd: Unbelievable >> >> White House counselor Kellyanne Conway falsely suggested Wednesday that >> there had been 18 previous strains of the novel coronavirus as she defended >> President Trump?s decision to suspend funding to the World Health >> Organization. >> >> "This is covid-19, not covid-1, folks, and so you would think the people >> charged with the World Health Organization facts and figures would be on >> top of that,? Conway said during an interview on Fox News. >> >> In fact, the ?19? at the end of the virus?s name denotes that it was >> discovered in 2019, not that it is the 19th strain of the virus. At its >> outset, it was referred to by health officials as the ?2019 novel >> coronavirus.? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> the creation of utopias ? and their exhaustive criticism ? is the proper >> and distinctive method of sociology. H.G.Wells >> >> --------------------------------------------------- >> For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other >> members of LCHC, visit >> lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the >> research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. >> >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200418/c6c891ef/attachment.html From robsub@ariadne.org.uk Sat Apr 18 05:23:11 2020 From: robsub@ariadne.org.uk (robsub@ariadne.org.uk) Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2020 13:23:11 +0100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News? In-Reply-To: References: <67D4C8C6-80FE-4A0B-9D32-34AE80FFF490@manchester.ac.uk> <751BD885-98FE-4A3A-BE61-C1F737FC199B@umich.edu> <9BA3817B-B869-4195-AE66-8ED58264B8C4@gmail.com> Message-ID: In a nutshell what I took three paragraphs to say :-) Rob On 18/04/2020 13:14, Huw Lloyd wrote: > Hi Rob, > > Yes, the prospect of remote guidance seems more conducive to > developmental?education. > > Huw > > On Fri, 17 Apr 2020 at 23:35, robsub@ariadne.org.uk > > wrote: > > Huw: "Regarding distance learning. It strikes me as a natural > means of student self-selection regarding engagement and enquiry. > One would hope that turning up and switching off is less viable -- > though this still seems to be happening in work meetings from what > I can gather" > > From Twitter yesterday: > > "Found the kid playing with her dog instead of Zooming with her > teacher. She told me not to worry. She took a screenshot of > herself ?paying attention,? then cut her video & replaced it with > the picture. ?It?s a gallery view of 20 kids, mom. They can?t tell.?" > > But on a more serious note, how are we comparing online and face > to face presence? If we give a lecture lasting, say, an hour, how > many students are paying attention for the whole hour? None. For > half an hour, maybe? Or even less. People are very good at > dissembling, at appearing to pay attention when their mind is > elsewhere or has zoned out. > > Arguably learning online has more distractions and less of a > requirement to appear to be paying attention, but it's possible > that - if it's done well - the students may gain more by being > able to ration their attention more effectively than they can in a > sleepy lecture hall. > > The comparison is perfect for the activity theory triangle. The > instruments - the human voice and the computer screen - have such > different and manifold affordances. > > Rob > > On 17/04/2020 22:51, Huw Lloyd wrote: >> The following may help bring things together, and move things >> forward: >> >> 1. In response to Greg's request for anything more profound, I >> offer a greater degree of self-awareness, in contribution towards >> both cognition, appreciation, and the spiritual. >> 2. In response to David's pointing to naming conventions. Yes, >> this is relevant. And one can look to parallels with respect to >> the manner of encountering historical ideas. E.g. the >> dialectical?naming of "sociotechnical" or "participant observer". >> 3. With respect to Bonnie's referencing personality in relation >> to CHAT/AT. From a developmental perspective one can certainly >> enquire into this productively. The approach I have taken uses >> intentionality or active orientation as a unit that represents a >> synthesis?of cognition, emotion, movement etc -- which are >> typically considered as a platform for personality (e.g. MBTI). >> 4. Regarding distance learning. It strikes me as a natural means >> of student self-selection regarding engagement and enquiry. One >> would hope that turning up and switching off is less viable -- >> though this still seems to be happening in work meetings from >> what I can gather. >> >> Perhaps all these calamities will also help people get over the >> hump of the post-modernist?view that "every view is equal', and >> recognise that there is leverage in the structuring and nesting >> of views of different scope. >> >> Best, >> Huw >> >> >> On Fri, 17 Apr 2020 at 21:21, Helena Worthen >> > wrote: >> >> IMHO, ?elaborations in which political positions are >> qualified as part of our arguments? are vital to the >> relevance of this list. >> >> The Vygotskian tradition?s roots go deep in a period of >> tumultuous, dangerous change?? the Russian revolution - and >> the people who formulated it did so in the face of threats, >> loss of livelihood, suppression of research, etc. not so much >> because their work was revolutionary but because there was a >> revolution going on around them, stones flying everywhere. >> Vygotsky was essential to the creation of education systems >> in other countries in extreme conditions?? my knowledge of >> this comes from Vietnam. Vygotsky finally came to the US >> despite McCarthyism etc. but here, over the last 30-40 years, >> CHAT has been, as I think we have agreed, domesticated and >> cured of its politics, to its detriment. >> >> Drawing the Vygotskian tradition and its current expressions >> back into the fray, weaving theory and the facts of the >> current crisis together, won?t be a bump-free project, but >> let?s keep on with it. >> >> Generally speaking, avoiding irony, sarcasm and other things >> that rely on tone of voice, and calling out someone by ?name >> --not usually good even in praise (because it turns into a >> one-on-one). >> >> Other than that, I?m not worried, I think we?re doing fine. ?? >> >> Helena Worthen >> hworthen@illinois.edu >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Apr 17, 2020, at 11:47 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil >>> > wrote: >>> >>> Dear friends, >>> It seems that this discussion is raising a number of >>> interesting challenges with regards to how to co-habit this >>> list worth considering, and always in the most respectful >>> manner. >>> One thing that I think is clear and always takes place is >>> that when members use irony and/or sarcasm, even in as well >>> intentioned as in the post that started this thread, there >>> is the risk that people do not find it appropriate. It is >>> not that this happens always, but obviously is something to >>> consider before posting on those terms. I believe irony is a >>> healthy and important resource to keep with us, just knowing >>> it is, by nature, a double-edged sword. >>> The other thing, which I believe is more challenging, is >>> that, as it?s been made clear by a few participants, and by >>> the way in the most considerate manner (thanks!), is that >>> elaborations in which political positions are qualified as >>> part of our arguments may be experienced as inappropriate. >>> And I wonder what to do with this as a community? This is >>> particularly difficult because, at least as I see it, >>> disconnecting politics from theory, in a list in which >>> issues of human mind and activity are intrinsically >>> connected to culture, is really not possible. What would we >>> discuss, as a community interested in CHAT related issues, >>> if not issues of politics, of social in/justice, as they >>> relate to our present and futures? And how can we discuss it >>> without making reference to the concrete, specific >>> historical cases, public figures, parties, realities of the >>> countries we live in? >>> And please, I am not here defending that this thread should >>> continue, or that there would not be reason to feel it is >>> not appropriate. I am just ignorant enough to realize that I >>> have no clue as to what sort of moderation is appropriate >>> here. So I would appreciate if no references to A has said >>> this, or B has done that, are made; but would appreciate a >>> lot a bit of help on this issue. I think that ignoring our >>> colleague?s concerns and sensitivities is not right. But >>> censoring political discussions, if these are voiced as part >>> of an analysis of current matters of socio-historical >>> relevance, does not feel right either. And please, note that >>> many of us are not US citizens or residents, so you?ll have >>> to excuse our ignorance. >>> Thanks, >>> Alfredo >>> *From:*>> > on behalf of >>> Edward Wall > >>> *Reply to:*"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" >>> > >>> *Date:*Friday, 17 April 2020 at 01:07 >>> *To:*"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" >>> > >>> *Subject:*[Xmca-l] Re: Unbelievable: number 19th strain >>> according to Fox News? >>> Dear All >>> ? ?I would appreciate if we could take such discussions off >>> list, It is not that I don?t sympathize with the voiced >>> frustrations, but I wish you would vent them elsewhere and >>> elsewhen. >>> Ed >>> Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he >>> is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for >>> what he is. >>> >>> On Apr 16, 2020, at ?5:40 PM, Bonnie Nardi >>> > wrote: >>> Watching the debacle of Trump reveals, to me at least, >>> how important class analysis is. Trump is deranged, and >>> his everyday actions fall completely outside all social >>> norms of decency, yet he is /consistently supported/by >>> (1) his Republican cohorts, (2) big business (Bill >>> Gates: ?I don?t rule out voting for Trump if I have to >>> pay too much in taxes??) and (3) the >>> alienated/uneducated class who?d rather at least have >>> the fun of throwing a brick through the window than put >>> up with any more PC bs (or abortion rights or separation >>> of church and state). A potent and scary mix. The >>> "complicity" Greg mentioned has several sources, all >>> class-based in my view, but oddly variable. >>> Trump is a symptom of a society running off the rails. >>> He could not have come to power had not the underlying >>> conditions been ripe for it. He wasn?t the lesser of two >>> evils for many voters ? he was finally someone who they >>> thought spoke for them whether they occupied corporate >>> boardrooms or NASCAR bleachers or evangelical pews. >>> Europe is also producing fascist-leaning leaders and >>> other places have them firmly ensconced. >>> It?s damn weird to me that we?ve gone, in my lifetime, >>> from U.S. leadership in gay rights, civil rights, >>> disability rights, and environmentalism, ?to the current >>> horrendous situation. (Europe has implemented better >>> environmental policies but the groundwork was laid in >>> the U.S.) I love the U.S. the way a parent still loves a >>> teenager gone bad, but that?s beside the point, this is >>> now global, as Julian points out.? We are all in this >>> together. Neoliberalism deftly divides us (I see it, >>> e.g., in the virus discussions about how old people, >>> are, let?s face it, expendable, and we worry too much >>> about them -- the young need to get back to work, etc. >>> There?s as much of this on reddit as there is from >>> Republicans.) >>> What to do? The first thing is to rethink what a society >>> can and should be. As part of this exercise I recommend >>> Andre Gorz's /Paths to Paradise/. It's short, sweet, and >>> prescient. Gorz recognized that environmental problems >>> come from too much frenetic economic activity and that >>> we are spending too much of our lives in alienating >>> workplaces. He recommended a lot more automation and a >>> lot more sharing of wealth. He has been a touchstone for >>> me and others in the Computing within LIMITS community >>> (seehttps://computingwithinlimits.org/2020/ >>> for >>> all the papers going back to 2015). >>> I think we absolutely have to address the big picture >>> and smaller efforts (like growing meat in labs and so >>> on) are not going to do much. >>> The pandemic has shown Gorz to be right about the >>> environment -- I have been astonished at how quickly air >>> and water are clearing, how animals are benefiting, etc. >>> I didn't expect all that to happen so fast. In the San >>> Francisco Bay Area where I live, air pollution is down >>> 40%. There's lots of good media reporting on these kinds >>> of changes which are global. >>> I think we must look to what CHAT has written about >>> personality. I have never really understood that work >>> but I sense that it's important. The culture now >>> produces neoliberal "entrepreneurs" with their >>> self-branding and paddle-your-own-canoe philosophies, >>> but other eras produced other types. I live in a coastal >>> town, and while the beach parking lots are closed, the >>> surfers, walkers, and cyclists are out when they aren't >>> normally out. They are probably getting their work done >>> virtually in less time than normal (without a commute >>> and the distractions of the office), and doing what they >>> love doing!? Maybe we need a world of walkers and >>> surfers -- that personality type. I'd be happy if people >>> were more focused on knitting, and baking, and carpentry >>> -- all those homely ways of producing rather than >>> working, often for very little money, so they can buy >>> everything at the store. Most of it ends up in >>> landfills, by design, or, if it's food, it is so awful >>> it contributes to the chronic diseases. Or working hard >>> at high end jobs and ending up feeling one is entitled >>> to what one has (the Bay Area has been badly affected by >>> this) and that if you are poor it's kind of your own fault. >>> Yes, I recognize that staying home more has costs and >>> that we can't produce everything ourselves, but the >>> solution to the big picture is not to send everyone off >>> to the workplace for most of their lives but to address >>> issues of violence, production, quality of life, and so >>> on in direct ways. We can't rely on by-products of our >>> current work habits to stem violence, for example. That >>> is just not right. >>> The post-growth movement in Europe is doing thoughtful >>> work, and I recommend what they write. They cite Gorz >>> (as well as Gandhi, Donella Meadows, and so on), and I >>> think they are on the right track. >>> Best, >>> - >>> Bonnie >>> Bonnie Nardi >>> Professor (Emer.) >>> Department of Informatics >>> School of Information and Computer?Sciences >>> 5088 Bren Hall >>> UC Irvine 92697-3440 >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://darrouzet-nardi.net/bonnie__;!!Mih3wA!Tpf6886ezqvBH4afd65nPVccITLHI4A0lyuLcR7BTyz_dl31qCzFBVG1E91AbPWOslFn3A$ >>> >>> NEW BOOK:?Heteromation and Other?Stories of Computing >>> and Capitalism?(with?Hamid Ekbia, MIT Press, 2017) >>> >>> >>> On Apr 16, 2020, at 11:14 AM, Julian Williams >>> >> > wrote: >>> Mike, hi >>> Surely not funny, of course. And we should have an >>> even greater concern about India, where 1.4billion >>> people are supposedly ?shut down? ( actually, many >>> millions are walking hundreds of miles ?home? from >>> the cities to their villages, wearing masks, but .. >>> ?), and nationalist, anti-Muslim extremism - rampant >>> before the crisis ? is growing: >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.democracynow.org/2020/4/16/arundhati_roy_coronavirus_india?utm_source=Democracy*Now*21&utm_campaign=5b85440b98-Daily_Digest_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_fa2346a853-5b85440b98-192514813__;KyU!!Mih3wA!Tpf6886ezqvBH4afd65nPVccITLHI4A0lyuLcR7BTyz_dl31qCzFBVG1E91AbPVMztkxJw$ >>> >>> We can anticipate at least 40 million deaths in >>> India ?if this gets going - ?and the fascists are >>> planning to emerge dominant from this ? all >>> encouraged by your big man in the WH. >>> These deaths will perhaps make the holocaust seem >>> like small fry ? will we ever see trials for crimes >>> against humanity? Perhaps not, because it will be >>> difficult to pin these deaths on to intentional >>> action, but maybe there should be a crime for >>> intentional inaction? The abject state of public >>> health systems (long term) and the incompetence and >>> political management (short term) being the main >>> charges. >>> Then in the US we can see some analyses of the way >>> the deaths are hugely discriminatory against >>> black/ethnic minorities and the poor: ?More than 70 >>> per cent of COVID-19 deaths in the state of >>> Louisiana were African-Americans, despite accounting >>> for just a third of the general population. In New >>> York City it's 17 per cent of deaths, for a 9 per >>> cent share of >>> residents.?https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-16/drum-covid-african-american-affected/12153268__;!!Mih3wA!Tpf6886ezqvBH4afd65nPVccITLHI4A0lyuLcR7BTyz_dl31qCzFBVG1E91AbPV8bx9r3Q$ >>> ??Globally >>> translated ? this will become a terrible indictment >>> of the world?s structure of poverty: >>> I had to pause the other day ? is this kind of >>> admittedly political posting appropriate to xmca >>> listserve?s concerns: I think that?s a question for >>> xmca ? ?are we/is xmca relevant to the millions of >>> deaths likely as the pandemic spreads to the poor >>> nations?? The question is moot ? only you people out >>> there can say, or do by saying. >>> Julian >>> PS It?s good that in some parts of the world this >>> information is still getting out. The middle east, >>> and Africa, in many parts, maybe is more difficult. >>> *From: *>> > on behalf >>> of mike cole > >>> *Reply-To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" >>> >> > >>> *Date: *Thursday, 16 April 2020 at 18:36 >>> *To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" >>> >> > >>> *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: FW: Unbelievable: number >>> 19th strain according to Fox News? >>> There is absolutely nothing funny about the crypto >>> fascists running this government, Julian. >>> Trump is pushing towar monarchy in a fashion that >>> might be funny if it were a Gilbert and Sullivan >>> musical. >>> mike >>> On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 2:27 PM Julian Williams >>> >> > wrote: >>> >>> Dear all, >>> Kellyanne *Conwa*y ? I think I heard her name a >>> while back ? what a Con, Ha ha? >>> But perhaps not so very funny, right? >>> God help us ? it all fits ? and now >>> international pandemic and the next step is to >>> defenestrate our only World Health Organisation? >>> I can?t see anything short of a massive >>> rebellion being an appropriate response? get >>> those idiots out of the white house? >>> Julian >>> >>> *Subject: *Fwd: Unbelievable >>> White House counselor Kellyanne Conway falsely >>> suggested Wednesday that there had been 18 >>> previous strains of the novel coronavirus as she >>> defended President Trump?s decision to suspend >>> funding to the World Health Organization. >>> "This is covid-19, not covid-1, folks, and so >>> you would think the people charged with the >>> World Health Organization facts and figures >>> would be on top of that,? Conway said during an >>> interview on Fox News. >>> In fact, the ?19? at the end of the virus?s name >>> denotes that it was discovered in 2019, not that >>> it is the 19th strain of the virus. At its >>> outset, it was referred to by health officials >>> as the ?2019 novel coronavirus.? >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> the creation of utopias ? and their exhaustive >>> criticism ? is the proper and distinctive method >>> of sociology. H.G.Wells >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------- >>> For archival resources relevant to the research of >>> myself and other members of LCHC, visit >>> lchc.ucsd.edu . For archival >>> materials and a narrative history of the research of >>> LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu >>> . >>> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200418/1a8a7ff5/attachment.html From dkellogg60@gmail.com Sat Apr 18 05:28:41 2020 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2020 21:28:41 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Teachers as the Depths of the Deep State Message-ID: Let me try, David. That is, let me try to bring your view into the dialectical tradition of this listserve and alos try to bring the view that you think is furthest from Bonnies forceful plea more into a dialectical relationship with your own. I don't mean abolishing the contradiction or even setting it aside, but sublating it--going beyond both extremes and trying to bring about a higher synthesis. On the one hand, it's impossible to return to the status quo ante 2016--we will only succeed in re-establishing the conditions which brought about the rise of a semi-fascistic movement which is becoming more and more openly fascistic. Even Barack Obama now says he would not and could not run on Barack Obama's 2008 platform today (and yet that is apparently what Biden is seeking to do!) On the other hand, it's impossible to ignore the demoralization and disarray: a working class movement faced with something that is more like a lock-out than a general strike, when going down into the streets and demonstrating is something only frenzied shopkeepers, faced with imminent bankruptcy, have the stomach for. It's in situations like this that we need transitional demands--the kind of programme that Andy was dismissing as "fake" not too long ago. That is, we need demand smaller classes that will allow social distancing in class, a re-employment on a rotating schedule that will allow social distancing in the work place at no loss in pay, rationing of scarce resources (which we have here in Korea). Yes, the "deep state" of expertise and intellect and competence needs to be defended. But it also needs to be deepened. For example, other countries recognize teachers as civil servants, who enjoy tenure, political independence, and of course full benefits. For this to happen, the US would have to introduce a national education system...and that in turn would facilitate organizing a national struggle for safe education. Similar to what we had for safe sex not so very long ago! I think that in many ways the struggle against AIDS is a model for what is necessary: the first demand was simply survival. But the ultimate outcome was a great and very fundamental transformation in the way in which people live, to which marriage equality was really just reluctant and post facto state consent. David Kellogg Sangmyung University Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of *Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational action research' in Mind Culture and Activity* https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847__;!!Mih3wA!Qq3Pj8jN3ALwggD6wrjNBJiBASps48vZccLFI9gq7L4R9Vj-cRi0BqYJ3p_Qw2PJFgLMSw$ Some free e-prints available at: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080*10749039.2020.1745847__;Lw!!Mih3wA!Qq3Pj8jN3ALwggD6wrjNBJiBASps48vZccLFI9gq7L4R9Vj-cRi0BqYJ3p_Qw2NvqBu3ew$ New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!Qq3Pj8jN3ALwggD6wrjNBJiBASps48vZccLFI9gq7L4R9Vj-cRi0BqYJ3p_Qw2OC5izceA$ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200418/a1c91873/attachment.html From ulvi.icil@gmail.com Sat Apr 18 05:44:23 2020 From: ulvi.icil@gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?VWx2aSDEsMOnaWw=?=) Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2020 15:44:23 +0300 Subject: [Xmca-l] Comrades: Made, not born | Liberation School Message-ID: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://liberationschool.org/comrades-made-not-born/__;!!Mih3wA!W9Entntx2jILDUOjHlK0lwS3xMjwlSv31j4UnIRxkgh2P_tjp8vu2aZBKJxo_kIfIZj2aA$ I am very hopeful about PSL in United States. I friendly recommend to follow them. https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.pslweb.org__;!!Mih3wA!W9Entntx2jILDUOjHlK0lwS3xMjwlSv31j4UnIRxkgh2P_tjp8vu2aZBKJxo_kLWZIAlFw$ They are moving independently and also together with answer.org E.g. Brian Becker from PSL is from IAC (Ramsey Clark) and actually a director of answer.org Ulvi -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200418/d45ec0a0/attachment.html From a.j.gil@ils.uio.no Sat Apr 18 06:02:21 2020 From: a.j.gil@ils.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2020 13:02:21 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News? In-Reply-To: <93f3fd74-04b3-a005-6adb-f76eec85b7f0@marxists.org> References: <67D4C8C6-80FE-4A0B-9D32-34AE80FFF490@manchester.ac.uk> <751BD885-98FE-4A3A-BE61-C1F737FC199B@umich.edu> <031974FF-961A-4C4A-97B8-038C48FFDBE6@manchester.ac.uk>, <93f3fd74-04b3-a005-6adb-f76eec85b7f0@marxists.org> Message-ID: I do not think that there are any reasons to say that there are right wing or trumpists in this list. Members have reacted to passionate arguments in which dislike of certain politics and of entire parties or sectors of society have been aired along argumentation. The issue is NOT whether there are trumpists or anti trumpists here, and making that the issue is certainly against the dialectical and dialogical premises of the list. I think it is much more productive to focus on how politics, affects and science intersect in current affairs and how to co-habit in that intersection. Alfredo On 18 Apr 2020, at 05:19, Andy Blunden wrote: ? I agree, Julian, that it would be quite untenable to forbid politics on this list. People in America are familiar with the "we can't discuss gun safety in the wake of this mass shooting" argument. We used to have the "we can't discuss climate change while this bushfire is going on" line. A few always rejected this mantra, but in the recent catastrophe it was blown sky high - everyone, surrounded by smoke and flames, was talking climate change, because we were all breathing it. That battle was won in Australia. It is exactly in the midst of a pandemic that we need to talk about political leadership, its successes and failures. The remarkable thing about our "daggy dad" is that the guy changed. After a career using racist rhetoric for political ends, after the Christchurch mosque massacre he dropped it altogether. Then after his disastrous non-leadership during the bushfire crisis - refusing to meet fire chiefs and going on holiday while the fires raged - he suddenly changed when the virus took off in China and created a "National Cabinet" together with State leaders and basically did almost everything a good national leader should do to unite the country. It is ironic though, that Australia he heading towards a return to normal after having suppressed the virus, within a quarantine wall - almost a parody of the Australian way. But as Alfredo says, it is possible to do it without irony, sarcasm and disrespect. When I write on this list I try to keep in my mind the couple of readers I know who are on the right-wing of politics, and remember that I am speaking to them. Of course, I use different terms at home among friends, but on a list like this we should say what we mean as if talking to a friend who thinks the exact opposite to is about the issue being discussed. I try anyway. But I forget sometimes. Andy ________________________________ Andy Blunden Hegel for Social Movements Home Page On 18/04/2020 8:44 am, Julian Williams wrote: Chuck I think the tensions in this discussion so far (though quite amenable really, I thought, considering the times we are dying in) aptly reflect the struggle sociocultural theory is going through re domestication of CHAT first signalled in some of the Westernisations of Vygotskyan work but after several decades now looking somewhat morbid. The contradictions underlying CHAT are now perhaps surfacing in the political positions adopted around concrete events. So there are defenders of Trumpism and the like in the list - as well perhaps as the various seriously contrasting fractions on the ?left? in the US; but internationally we have to be much better informed (we have learnt the virus has no boundaries). And we can ignore these political dimensions on this listserve, but only at the cost of showing how irrelevant our community/work then is to the political discourse that is so crucial to our survival these days. The evidence of ?life? (non scholae sed vita discimus ?) on this list is its capacity to address CHAT to the challenges we face, globally, and an analysis of the nexus of science/technology with policy and practice (globally - of course) is critical. The complete failure (and obvious ignorance or possibly deliberate stupidity) of the speakers from the White House is mirrored round the world in this respect; and we can see mass deaths everywhere ? especially of the poor - as the consequence. In the UK the State had the chance to learn from China, and then from Italy: it sat on its hands.And so on around the globe. This may be a means globally to generate a new solidarity of resistance ? but it needs ?theory? or a praxis, or concept that can unify it. Yes, Latour?s approach is good and well, but? We already have a global alliance of finance capital, and we have something like a growing alliance of its political supporters at least on the right (Trump, Modi, Bolsonaro, Johnson, and the petit-fascists in Eastern Europe and Africa, etc?) - they are organising internationally, but what are we doing (collecting survey results on how folks would like to change their local cultural parameters? Nice and I?m with this but please, can we, and do we have time to expand this ?) What about us? Who are ?we?? Are we irrelevant? What is the point of this if there is no ?us?? I am trying to elucidate a collective subject here ? and the object is IMO survival. Rage, rage against the dying of the light, ? to sleep and perchance to dream, good night , Julian PS To those who don?t want to see this discussion on xmca, I?d suggest they have the choice to simply delete everything on this thread ? they don?t have to close us down (why would they?). I have done this to quite a few threads coming from xmca which I felt irrelevant to my interests, and it?s really only slightly inconvenient ?. PPS Alfredo: apologies, I did not know you were responsible for moderating this (do you think fraught?) discussion. With the exception of this sentence, I have in response to your request checked the above post and eliminated irony, humour (mostly, given the need for balance), and sarcasm (but not passion, or hope, I hope ? after only 35 days of ?shielded? living, perhaps the kangaroos are getting loose in the top paddock, as they say down under ? ) From: on behalf of Charles Bazerman Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Date: Friday, 17 April 2020 at 20:41 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News? I do not understand why a discussion list devoted a the serious academic consideration of particular theories, analysis, approaches, findings, and applications that fall within its scope should avoid discussion of immediate pressing issues of great importance to the lives of all of our various communities, despite the range of views and analyses that might be brought to bear on the discussion, as long as all the analyses, findings, applications, etc present are presented according to serious academic standards. IF governments and economic institutions--along with individuals involved in their actions-- are core parts of the activity systems that affect how these issues impact our lives, of course these need to be examined, analyzed, evaluated, commented on. If forums devoted to medicine, epidemiology, economics, politics, international affairs etc can do that, I do not see why those devoted to activity theory should restrict themselves. What this does mean, however, is that calis need to be made responsibly, and where appropriate documented with credible evidence and sources--whether this has to do with historical namings of viruses as part of the evaluation of political or cultural actions or of the delivery of essential resources for the delivery of services in emergent and evolving circumstances. This also means that those who object to claims or discussions have an equal responsibility to provide detailed analysis, evidence, and arguments that would locate precisely and support their objections, rather than wishing in a broad stroke to banish whole ill-defined classes of discussion. The Latour inspired discussion of alternative futures is particularly appropriate to this list and of this moment. While I was writing in this email, for example, in the background I was listening to the Governor of California proposing community structures to come up with plans for recreating the economic and environmental structures post-crisis. As those details emerge, I would very much like to hear the analysis of members of the list to these proposals, as well as similar structures and plans emerging in other jurisdictions in this country and others. Chuck ---- ?? ??????????? ?????? ??? ?? ????? ??? ?????????? ???????? ??????? ?? ??? ?? ????????? Los Estados Unidos es una naci?n de inmigrantes. The U.S. is a nation of immigrants. History will judge. https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://bazerman.education.ucsb.edu/__;!!Mih3wA!QAoXORgXiD0mP4vgPdemnnCcd1KgngKJ5aTkz32Ad97pr9jUGe9iryEoetx57nDEOMOwNQ$ https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Charles_Bazerman__;!!Mih3wA!QAoXORgXiD0mP4vgPdemnnCcd1KgngKJ5aTkz32Ad97pr9jUGe9iryEoetx57nDsfyuMTw$ https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.isawr.org__;!!Mih3wA!QAoXORgXiD0mP4vgPdemnnCcd1KgngKJ5aTkz32Ad97pr9jUGe9iryEoetx57nA8rEuCwg$ On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 11:50 AM Alfredo Jornet Gil > wrote: Dear friends, It seems that this discussion is raising a number of interesting challenges with regards to how to co-habit this list worth considering, and always in the most respectful manner. One thing that I think is clear and always takes place is that when members use irony and/or sarcasm, even in as well intentioned as in the post that started this thread, there is the risk that people do not find it appropriate. It is not that this happens always, but obviously is something to consider before posting on those terms. I believe irony is a healthy and important resource to keep with us, just knowing it is, by nature, a double-edged sword. The other thing, which I believe is more challenging, is that, as it?s been made clear by a few participants, and by the way in the most considerate manner (thanks!), is that elaborations in which political positions are qualified as part of our arguments may be experienced as inappropriate. And I wonder what to do with this as a community? This is particularly difficult because, at least as I see it, disconnecting politics from theory, in a list in which issues of human mind and activity are intrinsically connected to culture, is really not possible. What would we discuss, as a community interested in CHAT related issues, if not issues of politics, of social in/justice, as they relate to our present and futures? And how can we discuss it without making reference to the concrete, specific historical cases, public figures, parties, realities of the countries we live in? And please, I am not here defending that this thread should continue, or that there would not be reason to feel it is not appropriate. I am just ignorant enough to realize that I have no clue as to what sort of moderation is appropriate here. So I would appreciate if no references to A has said this, or B has done that, are made; but would appreciate a lot a bit of help on this issue. I think that ignoring our colleague?s concerns and sensitivities is not right. But censoring political discussions, if these are voiced as part of an analysis of current matters of socio-historical relevance, does not feel right either. And please, note that many of us are not US citizens or residents, so you?ll have to excuse our ignorance. Thanks, Alfredo From: > on behalf of Edward Wall > Reply to: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Date: Friday, 17 April 2020 at 01:07 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News? Dear All I would appreciate if we could take such discussions off list, It is not that I don?t sympathize with the voiced frustrations, but I wish you would vent them elsewhere and elsewhen. Ed Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is. On Apr 16, 2020, at 5:40 PM, Bonnie Nardi > wrote: Watching the debacle of Trump reveals, to me at least, how important class analysis is. Trump is deranged, and his everyday actions fall completely outside all social norms of decency, yet he is consistently supported by (1) his Republican cohorts, (2) big business (Bill Gates: ?I don?t rule out voting for Trump if I have to pay too much in taxes??) and (3) the alienated/uneducated class who?d rather at least have the fun of throwing a brick through the window than put up with any more PC bs (or abortion rights or separation of church and state). A potent and scary mix. The "complicity" Greg mentioned has several sources, all class-based in my view, but oddly variable. Trump is a symptom of a society running off the rails. He could not have come to power had not the underlying conditions been ripe for it. He wasn?t the lesser of two evils for many voters ? he was finally someone who they thought spoke for them whether they occupied corporate boardrooms or NASCAR bleachers or evangelical pews. Europe is also producing fascist-leaning leaders and other places have them firmly ensconced. It?s damn weird to me that we?ve gone, in my lifetime, from U.S. leadership in gay rights, civil rights, disability rights, and environmentalism, to the current horrendous situation. (Europe has implemented better environmental policies but the groundwork was laid in the U.S.) I love the U.S. the way a parent still loves a teenager gone bad, but that?s beside the point, this is now global, as Julian points out. We are all in this together. Neoliberalism deftly divides us (I see it, e.g., in the virus discussions about how old people, are, let?s face it, expendable, and we worry too much about them -- the young need to get back to work, etc. There?s as much of this on reddit as there is from Republicans.) What to do? The first thing is to rethink what a society can and should be. As part of this exercise I recommend Andre Gorz's Paths to Paradise. It's short, sweet, and prescient. Gorz recognized that environmental problems come from too much frenetic economic activity and that we are spending too much of our lives in alienating workplaces. He recommended a lot more automation and a lot more sharing of wealth. He has been a touchstone for me and others in the Computing within LIMITS community (see https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://computingwithinlimits.org/2020/__;!!Mih3wA!QAoXORgXiD0mP4vgPdemnnCcd1KgngKJ5aTkz32Ad97pr9jUGe9iryEoetx57nC_5wRnCQ$ for all the papers going back to 2015). I think we absolutely have to address the big picture and smaller efforts (like growing meat in labs and so on) are not going to do much. The pandemic has shown Gorz to be right about the environment -- I have been astonished at how quickly air and water are clearing, how animals are benefiting, etc. I didn't expect all that to happen so fast. In the San Francisco Bay Area where I live, air pollution is down 40%. There's lots of good media reporting on these kinds of changes which are global. I think we must look to what CHAT has written about personality. I have never really understood that work but I sense that it's important. The culture now produces neoliberal "entrepreneurs" with their self-branding and paddle-your-own-canoe philosophies, but other eras produced other types. I live in a coastal town, and while the beach parking lots are closed, the surfers, walkers, and cyclists are out when they aren't normally out. They are probably getting their work done virtually in less time than normal (without a commute and the distractions of the office), and doing what they love doing! Maybe we need a world of walkers and surfers -- that personality type. I'd be happy if people were more focused on knitting, and baking, and carpentry -- all those homely ways of producing rather than working, often for very little money, so they can buy everything at the store. Most of it ends up in landfills, by design, or, if it's food, it is so awful it contributes to the chronic diseases. Or working hard at high end jobs and ending up feeling one is entitled to what one has (the Bay Area has been badly affected by this) and that if you are poor it's kind of your own fault. Yes, I recognize that staying home more has costs and that we can't produce everything ourselves, but the solution to the big picture is not to send everyone off to the workplace for most of their lives but to address issues of violence, production, quality of life, and so on in direct ways. We can't rely on by-products of our current work habits to stem violence, for example. That is just not right. The post-growth movement in Europe is doing thoughtful work, and I recommend what they write. They cite Gorz (as well as Gandhi, Donella Meadows, and so on), and I think they are on the right track. Best, - Bonnie Bonnie Nardi Professor (Emer.) Department of Informatics School of Information and Computer Sciences 5088 Bren Hall UC Irvine 92697-3440 https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://darrouzet-nardi.net/bonnie__;!!Mih3wA!QAoXORgXiD0mP4vgPdemnnCcd1KgngKJ5aTkz32Ad97pr9jUGe9iryEoetx57nARI146bA$ NEW BOOK: Heteromation and Other Stories of Computing and Capitalism (with Hamid Ekbia, MIT Press, 2017) On Apr 16, 2020, at 11:14 AM, Julian Williams > wrote: Mike, hi Surely not funny, of course. And we should have an even greater concern about India, where 1.4billion people are supposedly ?shut down? ( actually, many millions are walking hundreds of miles ?home? from the cities to their villages, wearing masks, but .. ), and nationalist, anti-Muslim extremism - rampant before the crisis ? is growing: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.democracynow.org/2020/4/16/arundhati_roy_coronavirus_india?utm_source=Democracy*Now*21&utm_campaign=5b85440b98-Daily_Digest_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_fa2346a853-5b85440b98-192514813__;KyU!!Mih3wA!QAoXORgXiD0mP4vgPdemnnCcd1KgngKJ5aTkz32Ad97pr9jUGe9iryEoetx57nBiW6UaiA$ We can anticipate at least 40 million deaths in India if this gets going - and the fascists are planning to emerge dominant from this ? all encouraged by your big man in the WH. These deaths will perhaps make the holocaust seem like small fry ? will we ever see trials for crimes against humanity? Perhaps not, because it will be difficult to pin these deaths on to intentional action, but maybe there should be a crime for intentional inaction? The abject state of public health systems (long term) and the incompetence and political management (short term) being the main charges. Then in the US we can see some analyses of the way the deaths are hugely discriminatory against black/ethnic minorities and the poor: ?More than 70 per cent of COVID-19 deaths in the state of Louisiana were African-Americans, despite accounting for just a third of the general population. In New York City it's 17 per cent of deaths, for a 9 per cent share of residents.?https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-16/drum-covid-african-american-affected/12153268__;!!Mih3wA!QAoXORgXiD0mP4vgPdemnnCcd1KgngKJ5aTkz32Ad97pr9jUGe9iryEoetx57nDSZrjGTA$ Globally translated ? this will become a terrible indictment of the world?s structure of poverty: I had to pause the other day ? is this kind of admittedly political posting appropriate to xmca listserve?s concerns: I think that?s a question for xmca ? ?are we/is xmca relevant to the millions of deaths likely as the pandemic spreads to the poor nations?? The question is moot ? only you people out there can say, or do by saying. Julian PS It?s good that in some parts of the world this information is still getting out. The middle east, and Africa, in many parts, maybe is more difficult. From: > on behalf of mike cole > Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Date: Thursday, 16 April 2020 at 18:36 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: FW: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News? There is absolutely nothing funny about the crypto fascists running this government, Julian. Trump is pushing towar monarchy in a fashion that might be funny if it were a Gilbert and Sullivan musical. mike On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 2:27 PM Julian Williams > wrote: Dear all, Kellyanne Conway ? I think I heard her name a while back ? what a Con, Ha ha? But perhaps not so very funny, right? God help us ? it all fits ? and now international pandemic and the next step is to defenestrate our only World Health Organisation? I can?t see anything short of a massive rebellion being an appropriate response? get those idiots out of the white house? Julian Subject: Fwd: Unbelievable White House counselor Kellyanne Conway falsely suggested Wednesday that there had been 18 previous strains of the novel coronavirus as she defended President Trump?s decision to suspend funding to the World Health Organization. "This is covid-19, not covid-1, folks, and so you would think the people charged with the World Health Organization facts and figures would be on top of that,? Conway said during an interview on Fox News. In fact, the ?19? at the end of the virus?s name denotes that it was discovered in 2019, not that it is the 19th strain of the virus. At its outset, it was referred to by health officials as the ?2019 novel coronavirus.? -- the creation of utopias ? and their exhaustive criticism ? is the proper and distinctive method of sociology. H.G.Wells --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200418/218a6369/attachment.html From Peg.Griffin@att.net Sat Apr 18 10:36:01 2020 From: Peg.Griffin@att.net (Peg Griffin, Ph.D.) Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2020 13:36:01 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Problems with XMCA email In-Reply-To: <1da6196d-d9a1-31c8-4dd4-c57dd3d2cfb7@ucsd.edu> References: <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> <1da6196d-d9a1-31c8-4dd4-c57dd3d2cfb7@ucsd.edu> Message-ID: <007901d615a7$e338f1d0$a9aad570$@att.net> Just wanted to say hi and thanks, Bruce, and hope all is well with you and yours! Peg -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Bruce Jones Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2020 10:35 AM To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu Subject: [Xmca-l] Problems with XMCA email On 4/11/20 12:08 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > About e-mails not coming, that?s interesting, Greg (specially given the > record!). I did get both Anne-Nelly and Annalie?s e-mails originally > sent. So, if it is a systematic thing in the server, it is also > selective as to whom it targets! I hope Bruce can help here. The changes in UCSD's email systems have caused a number of problems. I manage the XMCA mailing list. I was having problems with email sent to the management address, xmca-l-owner@ucsd.edu. What I eventually discovered, only last Friday, is that the filters I'd set up inside my email client, Thunderbird for Mac, where the culprit. Something in the changes at UCSD had some, but not all of the incoming XMCA mail getting labeled as spam, which meant that T-Bird was dumping them. I removed all the filters, and unchecked the box that told T-Bird to believe the SpamAssassin header and the mail is now flowing properly again. If some of you are seeing all the mail, and others are not, then those that aren't might begin by working with local spam filtering if possible. I will send some mail to the campus mail managers to see if they can poke at their own filtering and figure out why the mail is getting flagged as spam. And if you send messages to me at bjones@ucsd.edu and they bounce, or you don't see a response, feel free to send to my gmail address: sugagaki@gmail.com Please note that I will be gone all day tomorrow, Monday, April 13. -- Bruce Jones Sys Admin, LCHC bjones@ucsd.edu 619-823-8281 From anthonymbarra@gmail.com Sat Apr 18 15:49:42 2020 From: anthonymbarra@gmail.com (Anthony Barra) Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2020 18:49:42 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Something light Message-ID: Wishing everyone a pleasant evening, morning, or day. Here is something perhaps a bit lighter, for anyone who might be interested. Two snippets from a recent chat with Nikolai Veresov, concerning mediation and one of Vygotsky's less publicized developmental laws: What is Universal About Human Psychological Development? https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/yfoanz__;!!Mih3wA!QIQl6qHNGerdrKDVZduDdZOMKw7HkZicBnwQhOGw-ja-4Z4bUl_saOdCIzp4wX75z417LQ$ Mediation - What or Who? https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/teoanz__;!!Mih3wA!QIQl6qHNGerdrKDVZduDdZOMKw7HkZicBnwQhOGw-ja-4Z4bUl_saOdCIzp4wX7dTnEtew$ And another clip from the same chat (which hopefully will be online in a few days): New Vygotsky book - https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/0goanz__;!!Mih3wA!QIQl6qHNGerdrKDVZduDdZOMKw7HkZicBnwQhOGw-ja-4Z4bUl_saOdCIzp4wX6068XWWw$ Some people have enjoyed these brief excerpts in the past, so I figured I'd share a few more during these indoor days. Lastly, those in education might enjoy some words from Michael Smith, one of my country's best teachers of teachers: Motivating readers with Essential Questions - https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/7hoanz__;!!Mih3wA!QIQl6qHNGerdrKDVZduDdZOMKw7HkZicBnwQhOGw-ja-4Z4bUl_saOdCIzp4wX65aEf1uw$ Michael excels at making learning social, accessible, challenging, and fun. If anyone's interested, the extended chat is here: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/pioanz__;!!Mih3wA!QIQl6qHNGerdrKDVZduDdZOMKw7HkZicBnwQhOGw-ja-4Z4bUl_saOdCIzp4wX7vpKmOOw$ And this I just like, and would like to share: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/bdoanz__;!!Mih3wA!QIQl6qHNGerdrKDVZduDdZOMKw7HkZicBnwQhOGw-ja-4Z4bUl_saOdCIzp4wX5ldgBqzQ$ Thanks for your tolerance ~ Anthony -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200418/1f2a2914/attachment.html From Anne-Nelly.Perret-Clermont@unine.ch Sun Apr 19 09:45:45 2020 From: Anne-Nelly.Perret-Clermont@unine.ch (PERRET-CLERMONT Anne-Nelly) Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2020 16:45:45 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> <50C2D0A2-BE61-4049-BBEE-D8317B9DCE62@uio.no> Message-ID: Greetings from Switzerland ! Latour?s questions (see https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.bruno-latour.fr/node/852.html__;!!Mih3wA!SOLGD7fIZOfwnOv18GIEYWXP9cq9svnmL1ZQIMFJjxNQqkQ8kywFVgT1lQSjeBtPSHc7ew$ ) are really difficult ones. Let me reproduce them here: : Question 1 : What are some suspended activities that you would like to see not coming back ? Question 2 : Describe why this activity seems to you to benoxious/superfluous/dangerous/incoherent and how its disappearance/putting on hold/substitution. Question 3 : What kinds of measures do you advocate so that workers/employees/agents/entrepreneurs, who can no longer continue in the activities that you have eliminated, are able to facilitate the transition to other activities ? Question 4 : What are the activities, now suspended, that you hope might develop/begin again, or even be created from scratch ?Question 5 : Describe how this activity appears to be positive to you, and how it makes other activities easier/more harmonious/coherent that you prefer and can fight against those that you judge to be inapproporiate. (Write a separate paragraph for each of the activities listed under 4). Question 6 : What kinds of measures do you advocate to help workers/employees/agents/entrepreneurs to acquire capacities/means/finances/instruments allowing forrestarting/development/creation of this activity ? (Now find a way to compare your description with that of other participants. By tabling and then superimposing the answers, you should start to build up a picture composed of conflicting lines, alliances, controversies and oppositions At first sight, it seems easy to answer these questions (e.g.: I would like: inclusive education promoting respect for all the variety of professional activities that are respectful of human life and environment; research with professionals on their activities in order to make them more respectful of human life and environment; a more equilibrated society with fewer inequalities ; much less traffic and a lot more public transportation and inexpensive taxis; less consumption and more creative activities/spaces/exchanges; political life that is not centred on obtaining votes; etc.) But as soon as I try to answer these questions, in fact, I can see that they are very difficult questions. They set an agenda for interdisciplinary and inter-professional and inter-national research. It requires revisiting our paradigms and methodologies. And the result should not be "impact" (?) factors in terms of number of publications. In-depth research and thinking is required in dialogue with actions in a back-and-forth movement. Research about issues that can have their origin in scientific, political and philosophical debates/results but also research about questions raised by the field, professionals, citizens, young people, etc. Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont University of Neuch?tel De : > on behalf of Robert Lake > R?pondre ? : "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Date : jeudi, 16 avril 2020 ? 16:45 ? : "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Objet : [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Greetings from South Georgia USA everyone! I will get right to the point in response to what we would like to see changed and replaced. The harvesting of trees for paper products and the use of alternative plant based sources such as elephant grass and kenaf. Wouldn't it be amazing to see these planted alongside all of the highways and homes as a literal "grassroots" movement reminiscent of Gandhi's spinning wheels and cotton? Thank-you Helena, Alfredo, Greg and everyone for checking in on us and for inspiring us to "go meta" as Jerome Bruner used to call it. Courage! Robert Lake References Borges Gomes, F. J., Colodette, J. L., Burnet, A., Ribas Batalha, L. A., and Barbosa, B. M. (2013). "Potential of elephant grass for pulp production," BioRes. 8(3), 4359-4379. On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 10:04 AM Greg Thompson > wrote: Just wanted to point back to the collective document that Alfredo initiated that included responses to Latour's challenge and to share some of the answers (below) that our colleagues provided. Here is the link: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://docs.google.com/document/d/1s23bmSz-Su4hohICZE_il8ujuhecIt2PeRcSa_TeSjw/edit?usp=sharing__;!!Mih3wA!SOLGD7fIZOfwnOv18GIEYWXP9cq9svnmL1ZQIMFJjxNQqkQ8kywFVgT1lQSjeBt8GgtI-A$ And here are some of the initial responses to things that people would like to see changed (there are definitely some themes emerging - standardized testing, commuting (and travel) - but I wonder if others might want to offer some new and novel (more radical?) ideas about things that have been halted that we would like to see remain halted): Helena Worthen: Single person cars, to be replaced by electric bicycles for short trips, public transport for longer trips, with tearing up of acres of asphalt to be replaced by farms and parks. Diana Arya: (1) School-wide testing, which is a HUGE waste of time and pulls all attentional resources to score performance rather than authentic engagement in literacies. (2) Commutes for engaging in activities that can be done equally as well in virtual spaces. (3) Shopping for anything other than food (can mail back any item ordered online that doesn?t fit/work). Zaza: (1) the corporate emphasis on growth and development (in the form of ?Goals? or ?OKRs? or ?KPIs?) that really about seeing how much business you can generate not what you have learned or how you have grown or even how that growth will contribute to your work. Wendy: 1. ?Unnecessary? journeys in private vehicles; 2. Half-filled airplane flights, carrying people on ?cheap? (environmentally un-costed) journeys; 3. Long, test-filled school days GregT: Long commutes (maybe short ones too). Here in Utah, the air is cleaner than its ever been in the Winter when we usually suffer from ?inversions? where the polluted air is trapped in the valleys by the surrounding mountains. On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 2:40 PM Alfredo Jornet Gil > wrote: Thanks Anne-Nelly. I haven?t yet answered myself, haven?t got the time to sit back and reflect yet (for some, the isolation is slowing down, for others it means frenetic activity all the time?). Will do my best to find the time by the end of the week though. And I wanted to say that anyone in this list may insert answers without necessarily having to write their (real) name. Anything to mark that there is a new entry should suffice. I am thinking of anyone who might want to contribute but who for one or another reason may prefer to stay anonymous. https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://docs.google.com/document/d/1s23bmSz-Su4hohICZE_il8ujuhecIt2PeRcSa_TeSjw/edit?usp=sharing__;!!Mih3wA!SOLGD7fIZOfwnOv18GIEYWXP9cq9svnmL1ZQIMFJjxNQqkQ8kywFVgT1lQSjeBt8GgtI-A$ Best, Alfredo From: > on behalf of PERRET-CLERMONT Anne-Nelly > Reply to: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Date: Tuesday, 14 April 2020 at 22:31 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Thanks Alfredo. I have already tried to answer this questionnaire several times. I observe changes in my answers? due to social interactions, growing sensibility, experience of the changes induced by covid19? Yours, Anne-Nelly Prof. em. Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont Institut de psychologie et ?ducation Facult? des lettres et sciences humaines Universit? de Neuch?tel Espace Tilo-Frey 1 (Anciennement: Espace Louis-Agassiz 1) CH- 2000 Neuch?tel (Suisse) https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.unine.ch/ipe/publications/anne_nelly_perret_clermont__;!!Mih3wA!SOLGD7fIZOfwnOv18GIEYWXP9cq9svnmL1ZQIMFJjxNQqkQ8kywFVgT1lQSjeBshxuvsWA$ De : > on behalf of Alfredo Jornet Gil > R?pondre ? : "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Date : samedi, 11 avril 2020 ? 22:47 ? : "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" >, Kloetzer Laure priv? > Objet : [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? One way could be compiling them in a google docs. Each question could be written as a heading, and under each heading, each participat writes name in Bold and then answer in body type. Would this work and would people be willing to fill in? If yes, here is a Google doc anyone could fill in: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://docs.google.com/document/d/1s23bmSz-Su4hohICZE_il8ujuhecIt2PeRcSa_TeSjw/edit?usp=sharing__;!!Mih3wA!SOLGD7fIZOfwnOv18GIEYWXP9cq9svnmL1ZQIMFJjxNQqkQ8kywFVgT1lQSjeBt8GgtI-A$ Alfredo From: > on behalf of Helena Worthen > Reply to: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Date: Saturday, 11 April 2020 at 22:37 To: "laure.kloetzer@gmail.com" >, "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? Hi, Laure ? It looks as if each group to which this is disseminated has to collect its own results and share them among themselves. I wish we could compile results across xmca at least to see which are the two activities chosen by this widespread community. H Helena Worthen helenaworthen.wordpress.com On Apr 11, 2020, at 12:48 PM, Laure Kloetzer > wrote: Good evening, In Neuch?tel, we sent an adapted version of the Latour questionnaire to our students for gathering their own reflections, with the goal to discuss them altogether after all this. Take care, Laure Kloetzer Le sam. 11 avr. 2020 ? 21:46, Helena Worthen > a ?crit : The Latour exercise that Anne-Nelly provides is really provocative!!! I did it; it takes 10-15 minutes and helped me clarify my thinking. Thank you. Here?s the link again: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.bruno-latour.fr/node/852.html__;!!Mih3wA!SOLGD7fIZOfwnOv18GIEYWXP9cq9svnmL1ZQIMFJjxNQqkQ8kywFVgT1lQSjeBtPSHc7ew$ Helena Worthen helenaworthen.wordpress.com On Apr 10, 2020, at 8:48 PM, mike cole > wrote: Hi Anna-Lisa. What you describe has great similarities what people in the US are experiencing with the exception that it is now clear for all to see that it is poverty, or the security of the vulnerable (same thing in my view). Thanks very much for the Latium letter. It is totally relevant right now. Mike On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 9:38 AM PERRET-CLERMONT Anne-Nelly > wrote: Hello everybody! Thank you so much for all the news and perspectives that are being shared from all over the Planet. Such difficult times, especially for those who can?t even send news... Some news from Switzerland, a privileged country, yet with very serious contamination rates. Almost 4 weeks of confinement (rights to go out are very limited and only a limited number of professions are still working) that totally re-organize our private and public life. The sun is shining wonderfully and it is very tempting to move out for this Easter holiday. Nevertheless, most people are very disciplined and stay home in confinement. It took a lot of time for the local, cantonal and federal authorities to decide on the confinement measures. Switzerland?s political traditions impose bottom-up decisions. But the result of this (too slow?) process seems to be that most people agree and comply with this policy. Police forces try to do education and not repression. But the peak of the tide of contamination has not been reached yet and hospitals are under stress. The economic stress due to this long shut down arises a lot of fear on the side of trade unions and employers associations. Switzerland has very large multinational companies, but 90% of its firms are small or medium size business. Quite a number of them are now reaching the edge of bankruptcy. If they should go bankrup,t this would totally disorganise the country, its daily style of life and more: small firms and their locations impact regional demography, resources, power (in a federation of cantons), etc. after compulsory education, 60% of the young people attend dual education (i.e. half time in firms and half-time in school) and if firms shut down this education will fall apart. Government, banks and networks of citizens are lending money and trying to maintain these small firms alive. Unemployment rate is raising but rents have to be paid. Etc? Switzerland is a country of pharmaceutical industry and engineers. But the panic in the hospitals is not over: equipment is insufficient, and drugs are starting to miss. Local enterprises have the know how to make them but ?with ingredients that come exclusively from China and India. Hospitals have been afraid of losing 25% to 40% of their staff as nurses often come from the bordering regions of France and Italy. Finally, these countries have locked their borders but not for those professionals. This does not solve the problem on the long term, of course as these countries also need more medical staff. We hope that a growing awareness of the importance (and respect and salary) due to these professions will finally have the necessary impact. At 9 p.m., everybody goes at the window or balcony to give them a clap (or ring bells or even play music) for a minute to thank all the medical staff and other professions (e.g., cleaners) who likewise take enormous risks and make great efforts. The number of beds in the hospitals has been seriously increased by creative means. The ultraliberal policy of the last decade had seriously cut down the number of beds in hospital and sent many many patients to private practice and ambulatory treatment. But the government, when declaring confinement, has also declared that medical practitioners should only do online treatment and should close their practice. Result: 3 weeks later medical authorities are very worried: many patients in serious conditions or with severe chronic diseases don?t dare to call their medical practitioner and are afraid to go to the emergency services in hospital (fear of overloading them, fear of infection by Covid and fear of being cut out from their families (not allowed in the hospital). The pronostic is a possible wave of very serious cases needing urgent and heavy treatment. This wave will put extra-pressure on the sanitary system already overburden. Meanwhile small medical units are close to bankruptcy : their have to pay the salaries of their staff but have no income to do so. There is also a (still small) growing concern among social scientists that the teams that reflect on the pandemic and the confinement measures (and the planning of the end of the confinement) are made up of exclusively of epidemiologists and economists (with one or two specialists in ethics). Hence the psychic and social problems of the confined population are probably underestimated. Little is known of the underprivileged part of the population, now unemployed, in small housing, with little outreach. Schooling has gone online in a fortnight (with absolutely no preparation) but many students don?t have connections or share the unique computer of the household with parents and siblings all supposedly on line. This is only a few elements that characterise the situation. In parallel, many citizens are becoming increasingly aware of the dangers of the total interdependence of the economy and of the ecological disasters that this creates. Sanitary disasters and ecological disasters are much more interrelated than expected (a very nice book to understand that biological processes and ways of life social life are interdependent: Rob Dunn "Never home alone. >From Microbes to Millipedes, Camel Crickets, and Honeybees, the Natural History of Where We Live"). There are also plenty of many nice examples of solidarity, creativity, etc. They need to converge and be made visible. We (MAPS in University of Neuch?tel) are engaging in a large inquiry based on Bruno Latour?s call (March 29, 2020): "A little exercise to make sure that, after the virus crisis, things don?t start again as they were before" (see https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.bruno-latour.fr/node/852.html__;!!Mih3wA!SOLGD7fIZOfwnOv18GIEYWXP9cq9svnmL1ZQIMFJjxNQqkQ8kywFVgT1lQSjeBtPSHc7ew$ with already versions in English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Polish, German, Dutch). Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont Prof. em. Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont Institut de psychologie et ?ducation Facult? des lettres et sciences humaines Universit? de Neuch?tel Espace Tilo-Frey 1 (Anciennement: Espace Louis-Agassiz 1) CH- 2000 Neuch?tel (Suisse) https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.unine.ch/ipe/publications/anne_nelly_perret_clermont__;!!Mih3wA!SOLGD7fIZOfwnOv18GIEYWXP9cq9svnmL1ZQIMFJjxNQqkQ8kywFVgT1lQSjeBshxuvsWA$ Last publications: Perret-Clermont, A.-N., Sch?r, R., Greco, S., Convertini, J., Iannaccone, A., & Rocci, A. (2019). Shifting from a monological to a dialogical perspective on children?s argumentation. Lessons learned. In F. H. van Eemren & B. Garssen (Eds.), Argumentation in actual practice. Topical studies about argumentative discourse in context (pp. 211-236): John Benjamins Publishing Company. Version ?lectronique Iannaccone, A., Perret-Clermont, A.-N., & Convertini, J. (2019). Children as investigators of Brunerian ?Possible worlds?. The role of narrative scenarios in children?s argumentative thinking. . Integrative Psychological and Behiavioral Science, 53, 679-693. Version ?lectronique Perret-Clermont, A.-N., Perret, J.-F., Pochon, L.-O., & Marro, P. (2019). Hommage ? Jacques Perriault. Hermes, La Revue, 3, 226-226. In J.-P. Fragni?re (Ed.), Agir et penser avec Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont (pp. 71-107). Lausanne: Editions Socialinfo https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.socialinfo.ch/les-livres/38-agir-et-penser-avec-anne-nelly-perret-clermont.html__;!!Mih3wA!SOLGD7fIZOfwnOv18GIEYWXP9cq9svnmL1ZQIMFJjxNQqkQ8kywFVgT1lQSjeBsrBGoWkw$ -- Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in a landslide. Roy D'Andrade --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!SOLGD7fIZOfwnOv18GIEYWXP9cq9svnmL1ZQIMFJjxNQqkQ8kywFVgT1lQSjeBsrI0zdmw$ https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!SOLGD7fIZOfwnOv18GIEYWXP9cq9svnmL1ZQIMFJjxNQqkQ8kywFVgT1lQSjeBuqzd_e0A$ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200419/73b82afd/attachment.html From bazerman@education.ucsb.edu Sun Apr 19 10:28:17 2020 From: bazerman@education.ucsb.edu (Charles Bazerman) Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2020 10:28:17 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? In-Reply-To: References: <1561595828372.21990@ils.uio.no> <1561634291278.32009@ils.uio.no> <5A854C93-BC9D-46BF-801E-E4EE4937EFCB@gmail.com> <1561719818697.15383@ils.uio.no> <1FF87750-649D-4091-BF8F-BACDF61FBDE1@gmail.com> <215E2B8B-FDC5-46A8-B35A-BC75492A1D22@gmail.com> <26F873AF-4F8B-4DBA-9511-5F0A06AA5DF3@cantab.net> <50C2D0A2-BE61-4049-BBEE-D8317B9DCE62@uio.no> Message-ID: >From a rhetorical point of view, perhaps we should consider what emotions, commitments, impulses, energies are most aroused by the current circumstances that can be mobilized to improve society. The closer changes are to issues and feelings tied to the moment the more likely we are to get movement on them. These may in different countries may be different as specific flaws in our society and governments have been exposed or as the necessity for stalled improvements have been made more pressing. In the US this means such things as: --racial and class injustice exposed and the need for completing civil and economic rights agendas, --societal dependence on the well-being of all, suggesting the need for advancing healthcare --recognition of and gratitude toward all essential workers including some of the lowest paid and employment precarious--which might be mobilized for minimum wage laws and other labor rights --Need for strong and competent government services --Sobering of our political discourses --Appreciation of schooling and the need to support and respect public education And on and on. These are not hidden or surprising as issues, but smart use of the moment can make these realizable. Change, like politics, is the art of the possible, and the possible almost always involves the alignment, assent, and cooperation of groups of people, organized, acting, and expressing support through various social systems including electoral politics. I have also heard, but remain moderately skeptical of, that our confidence and pride in cooperating for the common good, even in the face of government malfeasance and corporate manipulation, may ramp up international citizen based action on climate change. Chuck ---- ?? ??????????? ?????? ??? ?? ????? ??? ?????????? ???????? ??????? ?? ??? ?? ????????? Los Estados Unidos es una naci?n de inmigrantes. The U.S. is a nation of immigrants. History will judge. https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://bazerman.education.ucsb.edu/__;!!Mih3wA!QfZxUDGbF2e2d2mbWBHGkKcrCGzyKuqh-pAtEh0HrZS_E9bd5f0yq3bTiX9PxUHjd8ra3A$ https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Charles_Bazerman__;!!Mih3wA!QfZxUDGbF2e2d2mbWBHGkKcrCGzyKuqh-pAtEh0HrZS_E9bd5f0yq3bTiX9PxUGS2oSnMg$ https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.isawr.org__;!!Mih3wA!QfZxUDGbF2e2d2mbWBHGkKcrCGzyKuqh-pAtEh0HrZS_E9bd5f0yq3bTiX9PxUGiY6EvTA$ On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 9:47 AM PERRET-CLERMONT Anne-Nelly < Anne-Nelly.Perret-Clermont@unine.ch> wrote: > Greetings from Switzerland ! > Latour?s questions (see https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.bruno-latour.fr/node/852.html__;!!Mih3wA!QfZxUDGbF2e2d2mbWBHGkKcrCGzyKuqh-pAtEh0HrZS_E9bd5f0yq3bTiX9PxUEtBMH_Eg$ > ) > are really difficult ones. Let me reproduce them here: > > :* Question 1 : What are some suspended activities that you would like to > see not coming back ? Question 2 : Describe why this activity seems to you > to be**noxious/superfluous/dangerous/incoherent and how its > disappearance/putting on hold/substitution. Question 3 : What kinds of > measures do you advocate so that workers/employees/agents/entrepreneurs, > who can no longer continue in the activities that you have* > > *eliminated, are able to facilitate the transition to other activities ? **Question > 4 : What are the activities, now suspended, that you hope might > develop/begin again, or even be created from scratch ?**Question 5 : > Describe how this activity appears to be positive to you, and how it makes > other activities easier/more harmonious/coherent that you prefer and can > fight against those that you judge to be* > > *inapproporiate. (Write a separate paragraph for each of the activities > listed under 4). Question 6 : What kinds of measures do you advocate to > help* > > *workers/employees/agents/entrepreneurs to acquire > capacities/means/finances/instruments allowing for**restarting/development/creation > of this activity ? (Now find a way to compare your description with that of > other participants. By tabling and then superimposing the answers, you > should start to build up a **picture composed of conflicting lines, > alliances, controversies and oppositions* > > > > > At first sight, it seems easy to answer these questions (e.g.: I would > like: inclusive education promoting respect for all the variety of > professional activities that are respectful of human life and environment; > research with professionals on their activities in order to make them more > respectful of human life and environment; a more equilibrated society with > fewer inequalities ; much less traffic and a lot more public transportation > and inexpensive taxis; less consumption and more creative > activities/spaces/exchanges; political life that is not centred on > obtaining votes; etc.) > > But as soon as I try to answer these questions, in fact, I can see that > they are very difficult questions. They set an agenda for interdisciplinary > and inter-professional and inter-national research. It requires revisiting > our paradigms and methodologies. And the result should not be "impact" (?) > factors in terms of number of publications. In-depth research and thinking > is required in dialogue with actions in a back-and-forth movement. Research > about issues that can have their origin in scientific, political and > philosophical debates/results but also research about questions raised by > the field, professionals, citizens, young people, etc. > > Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont > University of Neuch?tel > > De : on behalf of Robert Lake < > boblake@georgiasouthern.edu> > R?pondre ? : "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Date : jeudi, 16 avril 2020 ? 16:45 > ? : "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Objet : [Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? > > Greetings from South Georgia USA everyone! > I will get right to the point in response to what we would like to see > changed and replaced. > The harvesting of trees for paper products and the use of alternative > plant based sources such as > elephant grass and kenaf. Wouldn't it be amazing to see these planted > alongside all of the highways and homes as a literal "grassroots" movement > reminiscent of Gandhi's spinning wheels and cotton? > Thank-you Helena, Alfredo, Greg and everyone for checking in on us and for > inspiring us to "go meta" > as Jerome Bruner used to call it. > Courage! > *Robert Lake* > References > Borges Gomes, F. J., Colodette, J. L., Burnet, A., Ribas Batalha, L. A., > and Barbosa, B. M. (2013). "Potential of elephant grass for pulp > production," *BioRes*. 8(3), 4359-4379. > > On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 10:04 AM Greg Thompson > wrote: > >> Just wanted to point back to the collective document that Alfredo >> initiated that included responses to Latour's challenge and to share some >> of the answers (below) that our colleagues provided. Here is the link: >> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://docs.google.com/document/d/1s23bmSz-Su4hohICZE_il8ujuhecIt2PeRcSa_TeSjw/edit?usp=sharing__;!!Mih3wA!QfZxUDGbF2e2d2mbWBHGkKcrCGzyKuqh-pAtEh0HrZS_E9bd5f0yq3bTiX9PxUHgxKaX9g$ >> >> >> And here are some of the initial responses to things that people would >> like to see changed (there are definitely some themes emerging - >> standardized testing, commuting (and travel) - but I wonder if others might >> want to offer some new and novel (more radical?) ideas about things that >> have been halted that we would like to see remain halted): >> >> Helena Worthen: Single person cars, to be replaced by electric bicycles >> for short trips, public transport for longer trips, with tearing up of >> acres of asphalt to be replaced by farms and parks. >> >> Diana Arya: (1) School-wide testing, which is a HUGE waste of time and >> pulls all attentional resources to score performance rather than authentic >> engagement in literacies. (2) Commutes for engaging in activities that can >> be done equally as well in virtual spaces. (3) Shopping for anything other >> than food (can mail back any item ordered online that doesn?t fit/work). >> >> Zaza: (1) the corporate emphasis on growth and development (in the form >> of ?Goals? or ?OKRs? or ?KPIs?) that really about seeing how much business >> you can generate not what you have learned or how you have grown or even >> how that growth will contribute to your work. >> >> Wendy: 1. ?Unnecessary? journeys in private vehicles; 2. Half-filled >> airplane flights, carrying people on ?cheap? (environmentally un-costed) >> journeys; 3. Long, test-filled school days >> >> GregT: Long commutes (maybe short ones too). Here in Utah, the air is >> cleaner than its ever been in the Winter when we usually suffer from >> ?inversions? where the polluted air is trapped in the valleys by the >> surrounding mountains. >> >> On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 2:40 PM Alfredo Jornet Gil >> wrote: >> >>> Thanks Anne-Nelly. I haven?t yet answered myself, haven?t got the time >>> to sit back and reflect yet (for some, the isolation is slowing down, for >>> others it means frenetic activity all the time?). Will do my best to find >>> the time by the end of the week though. >>> >>> >>> >>> And I wanted to say that anyone in this list may insert answers without >>> necessarily having to write their (real) name. Anything to mark that there >>> is a new entry should suffice. I am thinking of anyone who might want to >>> contribute but who for one or another reason may prefer to stay anonymous. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://docs.google.com/document/d/1s23bmSz-Su4hohICZE_il8ujuhecIt2PeRcSa_TeSjw/edit?usp=sharing__;!!Mih3wA!QfZxUDGbF2e2d2mbWBHGkKcrCGzyKuqh-pAtEh0HrZS_E9bd5f0yq3bTiX9PxUHgxKaX9g$ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Alfredo >>> >>> >>> >>> *From: * on behalf of PERRET-CLERMONT >>> Anne-Nelly >>> *Reply to: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" >>> *Date: *Tuesday, 14 April 2020 at 22:31 >>> *To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" >>> *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks Alfredo. >>> >>> I have already tried to answer this questionnaire several times. I >>> observe changes in my answers? due to social interactions, growing >>> sensibility, experience of the changes induced by covid19? >>> >>> Yours, >>> >>> Anne-Nelly >>> >>> >>> >>> Prof. em. Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont >>> >>> Institut de psychologie et ?ducation Facult? des lettres et sciences >>> humaines >>> >>> Universit? de Neuch?tel >>> >>> Espace Tilo-Frey 1 (Anciennement: Espace Louis-Agassiz 1) >>> >>> CH- 2000 Neuch?tel (Suisse) >>> >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.unine.ch/ipe/publications/anne_nelly_perret_clermont__;!!Mih3wA!QfZxUDGbF2e2d2mbWBHGkKcrCGzyKuqh-pAtEh0HrZS_E9bd5f0yq3bTiX9PxUGI9zKSnQ$ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *De : * on behalf of Alfredo Jornet >>> Gil >>> *R?pondre ? : *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" < >>> xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu> >>> *Date : *samedi, 11 avril 2020 ? 22:47 >>> *? : *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" , >>> Kloetzer Laure priv? >>> *Objet : *[Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? >>> >>> >>> >>> One way could be compiling them in a google docs. Each question could be >>> written as a heading, and under each heading, each participat writes name >>> in Bold and then answer in body type. Would this work and would people be >>> willing to fill in? If yes, here is a Google doc anyone could fill in: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://docs.google.com/document/d/1s23bmSz-Su4hohICZE_il8ujuhecIt2PeRcSa_TeSjw/edit?usp=sharing__;!!Mih3wA!QfZxUDGbF2e2d2mbWBHGkKcrCGzyKuqh-pAtEh0HrZS_E9bd5f0yq3bTiX9PxUHgxKaX9g$ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Alfredo >>> >>> >>> >>> *From: * on behalf of Helena Worthen < >>> helenaworthen@gmail.com> >>> *Reply to: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" >>> *Date: *Saturday, 11 April 2020 at 22:37 >>> *To: *"laure.kloetzer@gmail.com" , "eXtended >>> Mind, Culture, Activity" >>> *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: General check-in? >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi, Laure ? It looks as if each group to which this is disseminated has >>> to collect its own results and share them among themselves. I wish we >>> could compile results across xmca at least to see which are the two >>> activities chosen by this widespread community. >>> >>> >>> >>> H >>> >>> >>> >>> Helena Worthen >>> >>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Apr 11, 2020, at 12:48 PM, Laure Kloetzer >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Good evening, >>> >>> >>> >>> In Neuch?tel, we sent an adapted version of the Latour questionnaire to >>> our students for gathering their own reflections, with the goal to discuss >>> them altogether after all this. >>> >>> Take care, >>> >>> Laure Kloetzer >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Le sam. 11 avr. 2020 ? 21:46, Helena Worthen >>> a ?crit : >>> >>> The Latour exercise that Anne-Nelly provides is really provocative!!! I >>> did it; it takes 10-15 minutes and helped me clarify my thinking. >>> >>> >>> >>> Thank you. Here?s the link again: >>> >>> >>> >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.bruno-latour.fr/node/852.html__;!!Mih3wA!QfZxUDGbF2e2d2mbWBHGkKcrCGzyKuqh-pAtEh0HrZS_E9bd5f0yq3bTiX9PxUEtBMH_Eg$ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Helena Worthen >>> >>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Apr 10, 2020, at 8:48 PM, mike cole wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi Anna-Lisa. What you describe has great similarities what people in >>> the US are experiencing with the exception that it is now clear for all to >>> see that it is poverty, or the security of the vulnerable (same thing in my >>> view). >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks very much for the Latium letter. It is totally relevant right >>> now. >>> >>> >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 9:38 AM PERRET-CLERMONT Anne-Nelly < >>> Anne-Nelly.Perret-Clermont@unine.ch> wrote: >>> >>> Hello everybody! >>> >>> >>> >>> Thank you so much for all the news and perspectives that are being >>> shared from all over the Planet. Such difficult times, especially for those >>> who can?t even send news... >>> >>> >>> >>> Some news from Switzerland, a privileged country, yet with very serious >>> contamination rates. Almost 4 weeks of confinement (rights to go out are >>> very limited and only a limited number of professions are still working) >>> that totally re-organize our private and public life. >>> >>> >>> >>> The sun is shining wonderfully and it is very tempting to move out for >>> this Easter holiday. Nevertheless, most people are very disciplined and >>> stay home in confinement. >>> >>> It took a lot of time for the local, cantonal and federal authorities to >>> decide on the confinement measures. Switzerland?s political traditions >>> impose bottom-up decisions. But the result of this (too slow?) process >>> seems to be that most people agree and comply with this policy. Police >>> forces try to do education and not repression. But the peak of the tide of >>> contamination has not been reached yet and hospitals are under stress. >>> >>> >>> >>> The economic stress due to this long shut down arises a lot of fear on >>> the side of trade unions and employers associations. Switzerland has very >>> large multinational companies, but 90% of its firms are small or medium >>> size business. Quite a number of them are now reaching the edge of >>> bankruptcy. If they should go bankrup,t this would totally disorganise the >>> country, its daily style of life and more: small firms and their locations >>> impact regional demography, resources, power (in a federation of cantons), >>> etc. after compulsory education, 60% of the young people attend dual >>> education (i.e. half time in firms and half-time in school) and if firms >>> shut down this education will fall apart. Government, banks and networks of >>> citizens are lending money and trying to maintain these small firms alive. >>> Unemployment rate is raising but rents have to be paid. Etc? >>> >>> >>> >>> Switzerland is a country of pharmaceutical industry and engineers. But >>> the panic in the hospitals is not over: equipment is insufficient, and >>> drugs are starting to miss. Local enterprises have the know how to make >>> them but ?with ingredients that come exclusively from China and India. >>> Hospitals have been afraid of losing 25% to 40% of their staff as nurses >>> often come from the bordering regions of France and Italy. Finally, these >>> countries have locked their borders but not for those professionals. This >>> does not solve the problem on the long term, of course as these countries >>> also need more medical staff. We hope that a growing awareness of the >>> importance (and respect and salary) due to these professions will finally >>> have the necessary impact. At 9 p.m., everybody goes at the window or >>> balcony to give them a clap (or ring bells or even play music) for a minute >>> to thank all the medical staff and other professions (e.g., cleaners) who >>> likewise take enormous risks and make great efforts. >>> >>> >>> >>> The number of beds in the hospitals has been seriously increased by >>> creative means. The ultraliberal policy of the last decade had seriously >>> cut down the number of beds in hospital and sent many many patients to >>> private practice and ambulatory treatment. But the government, when >>> declaring confinement, has also declared that medical practitioners should >>> only do online treatment and should close their practice. Result: 3 weeks >>> later medical authorities are very worried: many patients in serious >>> conditions or with severe chronic diseases don?t dare to call their medical >>> practitioner and are afraid to go to the emergency services in hospital >>> (fear of overloading them, fear of infection by Covid and fear of being cut >>> out from their families (not allowed in the hospital). The pronostic is a >>> possible wave of very serious cases needing urgent and heavy treatment. >>> This wave will put extra-pressure on the sanitary system already >>> overburden. Meanwhile small medical units are close to bankruptcy : their >>> have to pay the salaries of their staff but have no income to do so. >>> >>> >>> >>> There is also a (still small) growing concern among social scientists >>> that the teams that reflect on the pandemic and the confinement measures >>> (and the planning of the end of the confinement) are made up of exclusively >>> of epidemiologists and economists (with one or two specialists in ethics). >>> Hence the psychic and social problems of the confined population are >>> probably underestimated. >>> >>> Little is known of the underprivileged part of the population, now >>> unemployed, in small housing, with little outreach. Schooling has gone >>> online in a fortnight (with absolutely no preparation) but many students >>> don?t have connections or share the unique computer of the household with >>> parents and siblings all supposedly on line. >>> >>> >>> >>> This is only a few elements that characterise the situation. In >>> parallel, many citizens are becoming increasingly aware of the dangers of >>> the total interdependence of the economy and of the ecological disasters >>> that this creates. Sanitary disasters and ecological disasters are much >>> more interrelated than expected (a very nice book to understand that >>> biological processes and ways of life social life are interdependent: Rob >>> Dunn *"Never home alone. **From Microbes to Millipedes, Camel Crickets, >>> and Honeybees, the Natural History of Where We Live"*). >>> >>> >>> >>> There are also plenty of many nice examples of solidarity, creativity, >>> etc. They need to converge and be made visible. >>> >>> >>> >>> We (MAPS in University of Neuch?tel) are engaging in a large inquiry >>> based on Bruno Latour?s call (March 29, 2020): "A little exercise to >>> make sure that, after the virus crisis, things don?t start again as they >>> were before" (see https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.bruno-latour.fr/node/852.html__;!!Mih3wA!QfZxUDGbF2e2d2mbWBHGkKcrCGzyKuqh-pAtEh0HrZS_E9bd5f0yq3bTiX9PxUEtBMH_Eg$ >>> with >>> already versions in English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Polish, German, >>> Dutch). >>> >>> >>> >>> Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont >>> >>> >>> >>> Prof. em. Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont >>> >>> Institut de psychologie et ?ducation Facult? des lettres et sciences >>> humaines >>> >>> Universit? de Neuch?tel >>> >>> Espace Tilo-Frey 1 >>> >>> (Anciennement: Espace Louis-Agassiz 1) >>> >>> >>> CH- 2000 Neuch?tel (Suisse >>> >>> ) >>> >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.unine.ch/ipe/publications/anne_nelly_perret_clermont__;!!Mih3wA!QfZxUDGbF2e2d2mbWBHGkKcrCGzyKuqh-pAtEh0HrZS_E9bd5f0yq3bTiX9PxUGI9zKSnQ$ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Last publications: >>> >>> Perret-Clermont, A.-N., Sch?r, R., Greco, S., Convertini, J., >>> Iannaccone, A., & Rocci, A. (2019). Shifting from a monological to a >>> dialogical perspective on children?s argumentation. Lessons learned. In F. >>> H. van Eemren & B. Garssen (Eds.), *Argumentation in actual practice. >>> Topical studies about argumentative discourse in context* (pp. >>> 211-236): John Benjamins Publishing Company. *Version ?lectronique >>> *Iannaccone, >>> A., Perret-Clermont, A.-N., & Convertini, J. (2019). Children as >>> investigators of Brunerian ?Possible worlds?. The role of narrative >>> scenarios in children?s argumentative thinking. . Integrative Psychological >>> and Behiavioral Science, 53, 679-693. *Version ?lectronique >>> * >>> >>> Perret-Clermont, A.-N., Perret, J.-F., Pochon, L.-O., & Marro, P. >>> (2019). Hommage ? Jacques Perriault. Hermes, La Revue, 3, 226-226. >>> >>> In J.-P. Fragni?re (Ed.), Agir et penser avec Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont >>> (pp. 71-107). Lausanne: Editions Socialinfo >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.socialinfo.ch/les-livres/38-agir-et-penser-avec-anne-nelly-perret-clermont.html__;!!Mih3wA!QfZxUDGbF2e2d2mbWBHGkKcrCGzyKuqh-pAtEh0HrZS_E9bd5f0yq3bTiX9PxUHhlsWmFQ$ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Being a social scientist is like being a geologist who studies rocks in >>> a landslide. Roy D'Andrade >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other >>> members of LCHC, visit >>> >>> lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the >>> research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >> Assistant Professor >> Department of Anthropology >> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >> Brigham Young University >> Provo, UT 84602 >> WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!QfZxUDGbF2e2d2mbWBHGkKcrCGzyKuqh-pAtEh0HrZS_E9bd5f0yq3bTiX9PxUEreHW9iA$ >> >> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!QfZxUDGbF2e2d2mbWBHGkKcrCGzyKuqh-pAtEh0HrZS_E9bd5f0yq3bTiX9PxUGmDeYqcQ$ >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200419/89aa5dc0/attachment.html From annalisa@unm.edu Sun Apr 19 10:52:53 2020 From: annalisa@unm.edu (annalisa@unm.edu) Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2020 17:52:53 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Perceptions of Space in Spring 2020 Message-ID: Hello fellow Xmcars, Interesting threads. I've been away from the list for sometime, likely I've missed a lot. I was thinking about the naming of viruses, and it seems to me that metonymy is usually how it happens. Black Plague had to do with symptoms; Swine Flu, Mad Cow Disease, Spanish Flu I think from where they originated or first observed. Both have to do with not the literal viral microbe, but a WHERE it was noticed first or a WHAT it did to bodies. I got thinking about David's observations about naming and I thought ...isn't it actually that there is one meaning with many names? For example a cup can be, as an object, attached to different sounding words in different languages, but then there are also synonyms, such as goblet (in English, vis ? vis "cup"). If I might presume a little bit (I hope that is OK to do) that Julian was objecting to the twisting of meanings, not names. To take the name Covid-19 to say that instead of being observed in 2019 (also metonymy in terms of a WHEN it was observed), it is (falsely claimed ) that it evolved and mutated 19 times, as if the statement was like an automobile ad ---> Have you driven virus lately? But more than that. I also feel that there is a deeper repugnancy because what Kellyanne Conway has done was to trivialize the science, and to reduce the pandemic to fashion of what is "in" or "out." And given how this pandemic has impacted so many lives, it's simply not at all funny. Hence the ironic Ha Ha. I heard the clink of chains for sure. Certainly irony is the only defense we have left if there are any thinking Americans left, which might be on the Left. I would like to hear more from the Right and not the alt-Right. I just want to know if there is anyone still thinking on the Right? I do not mean to offend anyone on this list. Just present me with an argument that is coherent so that I know you are still out there? I might not agree, but I can at least grasp any logic within and see there is something in common that we agree about in meaning, even if we disagree in execution. (parenthetical inclusion: I mean could anyone admit to missing William F Buckley, Jr.? I do. I searched "conservative writers" right now and this list is from about a year ago. Charles Krauthammer has passed on, and George Will is missing from that list, is it because he's too liberal? Too centrist? https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.thoughtco.com/top-conservative-columnists-3303483__;!!Mih3wA!Wom8Qw1MW32frXN53_QuKPoBJzwycGJV_R3ZlbH8mye4848I_Vi3sePUKuvZFOKNaig-oA$ So really there are only nine left. I don't want to firebomb OUR list with the names on THAT list, so if you don't want to be upset, do not click this link, and please do not start a flamewar because you did, it isn't my intention). Myself, I have thought a lot about how the macro and the micro are smashing together before our collective eyes. How can such a small microbe have such a huge impact globally??? And here it is! This is what it's like! What is our unit for analysis in this giant yet delicate experiment of which we are a part? Then I was pushed to think about my appreciation of space, that space between (i.e., the gap), after I read this recent article by Ian Bogost: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2020/01/smartphone-has-ruined-space/605077/__;!!Mih3wA!Wom8Qw1MW32frXN53_QuKPoBJzwycGJV_R3ZlbH8mye4848I_Vi3sePUKuvZFOJcQvl4aQ$ I myself as of late have been appreciating small things. Like how much I like eating an appropriately ripe avocado out of the skin with a spoon. It was picked by someone in an avocado grove, but it started growing on the tree before this virus hit. Or seeing my barista friend (masked in a bandana with stars and stripes) during my transgression to venture out in the afternoon for my non-essential (though essential to me) cortados, which he makes so nicely. Or how about the meaning of pajamas (i.e.,comfortable clothing) that I'm wearing too much? (i.e., Hand Washing and Clean Laundry!) I was so so relieved that JoAnn's Crafts and Fabrics was still open, though with reduced hours. Before knowing this, I thought what if I can't buy a needle, what will I do??? Delighted they were open, as I walked through the store I thought, I'll bet there are legions of newly-identified crafters forming right now (which I hope is a balm to Bonnie). Women's hands always have needed something to do when space was relegated and confined. Needlework is still work. I really needed this outlet while my internet connection was down. Talk about being in confinement. The space of isolation can be a good thing for the mind (think about all those meditators who are really making hay right now!!) but not always if one isn't used to being alone or going without one's space augmented with screens and devices. It's weird to watch Knightfall, a TV series on Netflix, and a dramatized (somewhat badly) fictional account of the Knights Templar, when guns had not replaced the sword, and there was no refrigeration or running water. Chainmail and armor will not protect you now. I guess I needed a dietary supplement of violence and filth to remind myself of what I enjoy now in modern times. I object to how they depict the Cathars in a demonized light. Because I'm of a different time and place, I do not think I'm not offending anyone for saying that. To mark time (when I'm not watching movies and snacking too much), I have begun to make friendship bracelets. I like the naming of that object, something macro (friendship) with something micro (bracelet) smashed together. Simple cotton threads knotted in a pattern that build to a band to decorate someone's wrist, but not just anyone's ? a friend's. "Friendship" in that these objects are labors of love given to people I know. I couldn't be paid enough to do this for a living. I did not know that there is a very vibrant community of knotters online. But there are. Check out braceletbook.com, a very crafty name. And lots of youtube how-to videos galore. If you have kids needing something to do, this might be a Good Thing. Right now, I feel we are more fortunate than not to have connection online, than not at all. Imagine how difficult it was in 1918, given the means of communication then. We will likely beat this pandemic with less death than that pandemic, if only because we can distribute communications in a timely manner. There is nothing scientfic about staying indoors, it's pretty low-tech. It's just common sense. (I consider the juxtaposition of "common" and "sense" and hope that too is not a loaded term but they are also possibly a smashing together of the macro and the micro). In our imaginations, we can remain in our spaces and envision connection to the world anywhere we are. I think Bogost's article in the Atlantic is his observation about how our perceptions of space are changing but that this is not so easy to detect perhaps for those who have never known what life was like before the ubiquity of the Internet was so readily delivered by smartphones. Our minds are certainly being changed from these spatial experiences being drawn so tightly so fast. I want to believe that for having human bodies (with millions of years of evolution behind us) we will always be reawakened by nature's calm and quiet and its patient observance for the passing of time. Everyone where I live seems to be out walking, not at once, and not always masked (to my dismay) but usually in the evening to soak in the last part of the sunlight of the day, something impossible to do indoors. Screens and devices might seem to divide or concatenate our spaces artificially, but I trust these artificial experiences can live in harmony with our relationship nature; It's not mutually x-clusive. I'd like to ask anyone to perhaps consider how this experience has made you connect the macro to the micro in your life in "lockdown". I'm really curious what new appreciations you have discovered in your own experiences. Would anyone like to share their own new experiences of space? Kind regards, Annalisa -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200419/2839fae0/attachment.html From andyb@marxists.org Wed Apr 22 04:30:41 2020 From: andyb@marxists.org (Andy Blunden) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 21:30:41 +1000 Subject: [Xmca-l] As of 2020, the American Century is Over Message-ID: <85fc2557-3931-47ff-12d4-267e9281a955@marxists.org> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/American-Century.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!RX_kT308fV5J979vU0HnZwn3N_ILxa76WV811I3K7Q1lByCHw_H-2IpA6g71m_ZdQvTjgA$ Andy -- ------------------------------------------------------------ *Andy Blunden* Hegel for Social Movements Home Page -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200422/6ebfa558/attachment.html From Peg.Griffin@att.net Wed Apr 22 10:23:28 2020 From: Peg.Griffin@att.net (Peg Griffin, Ph.D.) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 13:23:28 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: As of 2020, the American Century is Over In-Reply-To: <85fc2557-3931-47ff-12d4-267e9281a955@marxists.org> References: <85fc2557-3931-47ff-12d4-267e9281a955@marxists.org> Message-ID: <000701d618ca$bdbd0470$39370d50$@att.net> Thank you, Andy. We see you (over that fence) and hear you (in writing) and love you, especially for writing this at this time. Peg From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:31 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] As of 2020, the American Century is Over https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/American-Century.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!XYSdA42Zr5llEZhKVWgl4fOEJ9dc8kp4q6p7lLR_MVIf_Pgyrt0v2wj2SAgTPydyH3IMbQ$ [ethicalpolitics.org] Andy -- _____ Andy Blunden Hegel for Social Movements [brill.com] Home Page [ethicalpolitics.org] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200422/7f6b95c9/attachment.html From greg.a.thompson@gmail.com Wed Apr 22 10:59:36 2020 From: greg.a.thompson@gmail.com (Greg Thompson) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 11:59:36 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: As of 2020, the American Century is Over In-Reply-To: <000701d618ca$bdbd0470$39370d50$@att.net> References: <85fc2557-3931-47ff-12d4-267e9281a955@marxists.org> <000701d618ca$bdbd0470$39370d50$@att.net> Message-ID: @Peg (and Andy), Amen. On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 11:26 AM Peg Griffin, Ph.D. wrote: > Thank you, Andy. > > We see you (over that fence) and hear you (in writing) and love you, > especially for writing this at this time. > > Peg > > > > *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto: > xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] *On Behalf Of *Andy Blunden > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:31 AM > *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > *Subject:* [Xmca-l] As of 2020, the American Century is Over > > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/American-Century.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!SC1RuacyZPrDwQDmuBNWwvyfa00fzGbbCxGADUoC1ZeP0PpIBrZXV9gMvexzO2B350AbWg$ > [ethicalpolitics.org] > > > Andy > > -- > ------------------------------ > > *Andy Blunden* > Hegel for Social Movements [brill.com] > > Home Page [ethicalpolitics.org] > > -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!SC1RuacyZPrDwQDmuBNWwvyfa00fzGbbCxGADUoC1ZeP0PpIBrZXV9gMvexzO2Dgb6UN4g$ https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!SC1RuacyZPrDwQDmuBNWwvyfa00fzGbbCxGADUoC1ZeP0PpIBrZXV9gMvexzO2CF9HJ8Nw$ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200422/66c4393e/attachment.html From mcole@ucsd.edu Wed Apr 22 11:01:43 2020 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 11:01:43 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: As of 2020, the American Century is Over In-Reply-To: <000701d618ca$bdbd0470$39370d50$@att.net> References: <85fc2557-3931-47ff-12d4-267e9281a955@marxists.org> <000701d618ca$bdbd0470$39370d50$@att.net> Message-ID: Thanks for the thoughts, Andy. As to world perezhivanie......... your example returns us to Vasiliuk's use of* Crime and Punishment *where perezhivanie involves suffering the living through and the pere-zhiv (re-living is still to come). Plenty of suffering ahead, or so I imagine. mike Dewey quotes Tennyson: ?Yet all experience is an arch wherethrough Gleams that untraveled world whose margin fades Forever and forever when I move. On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 10:26 AM Peg Griffin, Ph.D. wrote: > Thank you, Andy. > > We see you (over that fence) and hear you (in writing) and love you, > especially for writing this at this time. > > Peg > > > > *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto: > xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] *On Behalf Of *Andy Blunden > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:31 AM > *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > *Subject:* [Xmca-l] As of 2020, the American Century is Over > > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/American-Century.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!WcNSizVbMZ2bGtWcZ02IPObTtRbXD_-qmAd9CULZW4UttFiy3n9RPKGaW7WZTRpcb8Tr3A$ > [ethicalpolitics.org] > > > Andy > > -- > ------------------------------ > > *Andy Blunden* > Hegel for Social Movements [brill.com] > > Home Page [ethicalpolitics.org] > > -- the creation of utopias ? and their exhaustive criticism ? is the proper and distinctive method of sociology. H.G.Wells --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200422/a23ebf21/attachment.html From anthonymbarra@gmail.com Wed Apr 22 11:02:26 2020 From: anthonymbarra@gmail.com (Anthony Barra) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 14:02:26 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: As of 2020, the American Century is Over In-Reply-To: <85fc2557-3931-47ff-12d4-267e9281a955@marxists.org> References: <85fc2557-3931-47ff-12d4-267e9281a955@marxists.org> Message-ID: Andy, Unless someone beats me to it, I will annotate this article when time allows -- not as a fact-check or correction, but from an occluded view. Thank you for writing it; it is an excellent answer to the question, "what might the view from abroad look like, if reliant primarily on the *New York Times* and *CNN?*" (i.e., similar to the view domestically, under same conditions) This is not an insult nor critique -- as you know from our offline exchanges. It just is what it is; I have my blind spots too (we are all human). Cheers ~ Anthony On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:33 AM Andy Blunden wrote: > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/American-Century.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!RMaUkS3vjVRtqwENIrquoiZi1OA4IGUL8YCvG3uOuXLYS_IC3PJrTWLHcK-eHsH3vy_cBg$ > [ethicalpolitics.org] > > > Andy > -- > ------------------------------ > *Andy Blunden* > Hegel for Social Movements [brill.com] > > Home Page [ethicalpolitics.org] > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200422/20cdd736/attachment.html From julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk Wed Apr 22 14:53:12 2020 From: julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk (Julian Williams) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 21:53:12 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: As of 2020, the American Century is Over In-Reply-To: References: <85fc2557-3931-47ff-12d4-267e9281a955@marxists.org> Message-ID: Anthony, again! Let me help you here, pace NYTimes: If this turns out to be true: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/22/opinion/coronavirus-us-cases.html__;!!Mih3wA!Thq9B70VblZGnM99BEs5fxyBiyx97KDn0R9wlp73fmmP0mjgmwrrrWhj7ft2MsVP3DzE-Q$ The number of new cases appears to have peaked about a week and a half ago. But the decline since then has been very modest. There are still about 30,000 Americans being diagnosed each day. The seven-day moving average of new cases ? a measure that smooths out daily fluctuations ? has declined only 2 percent since it peaked 11 days ago. As you can see that?s not typical. In other countries, the number of new cases has usually declined much more sharply after peaking. Why? It?s impossible to know for certain with a virus as complex and unknown as this one. But there is an obvious potential cause: Many political leaders in the United States, including President Trump, are not following the advice of public health experts regarding distancing.. and this turns out to be true: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/22/us/politics/coronavirus-china-disinformation.html?referringSource=articleShare__;!!Mih3wA!Thq9B70VblZGnM99BEs5fxyBiyx97KDn0R9wlp73fmmP0mjgmwrrrWhj7ft2MsWUak6XMw$ American officials were alarmed by fake text messages and social media posts that said President Trump was locking down the country. Then there is a possibility that dissent in the US that could lead to the nightmare scenario of ongoing very high levels of transmission for some time to come. I can?t make up my mind from what you write - which is always incredibly arch - whether you are suggesting the Trump administration is playing a clever game in encouraging these deathly trends, in view of the much more important outcome of victory in your upcoming elections. Julian, again! BTW this is not an anti American rant, as we have the same crass ?leadership? over here: check out John Ashton on DDN (Double Down News) ? this is indeed a global politics now, perhaps just in time too. From: on behalf of Anthony Barra Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Date: Wednesday, 22 April 2020 at 19:05 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: As of 2020, the American Century is Over Andy, Unless someone beats me to it, I will annotate this article when time allows -- not as a fact-check or correction, but from an occluded view. Thank you for writing it; it is an excellent answer to the question, "what might the view from abroad look like, if reliant primarily on the New York Times and CNN?" (i.e., similar to the view domestically, under same conditions) This is not an insult nor critique -- as you know from our offline exchanges. It just is what it is; I have my blind spots too (we are all human). Cheers ~ Anthony On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:33 AM Andy Blunden > wrote: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/American-Century.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!Thq9B70VblZGnM99BEs5fxyBiyx97KDn0R9wlp73fmmP0mjgmwrrrWhj7ft2MsXkq7Ns3g$ [ethicalpolitics.org] Andy -- ________________________________ Andy Blunden Hegel for Social Movements [brill.com] Home Page [ethicalpolitics.org] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200422/16aa2c18/attachment.html From anthonymbarra@gmail.com Wed Apr 22 16:28:02 2020 From: anthonymbarra@gmail.com (Anthony Barra) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 19:28:02 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: As of 2020, the American Century is Over In-Reply-To: References: <85fc2557-3931-47ff-12d4-267e9281a955@marxists.org> Message-ID: Thank you for your concern, Julian. The sky has been falling here since 2015 -- or so they say. Maybe this time, at long last, they are right. I don't think so, but maybe. I have observed that most people, regardless of "team," 1) see what they want to see and have little difficulty finding confirmation (especially on the Internet); and 2) rarely maintain running records of their predictions (even on the Internet). Maybe you have noticed this as well. Would like to see something really cool? It's this lecture, you might know it: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WInttyZYt3A__;!!Mih3wA!XviqlLPcMOLS6BB2wIq9s4aG2w_Hxrgy2L3AorSg23NED2YTFwrSDhzKWtjvzRnUveIQcQ$ I collected some quotes from it once, as it reminded me of an interesting concept known around here as "two movies on one screen." Some quotes from the speaker, Jim Wertsch: - "Memory and history are not scientific in the sense that they rely on narrativization -- narrative." - "A chronicle wants to tell a story . . . what does...narrativization, or narrative organization, add to a chronicle?" - "When we talk about 'Is a story true or not?' we're talking about a different kind of truth than a propositional truth; when we say 'true story' what we largely mean is 'right story' or 'the correct story' - but that's a self-centered view...different from propositional truth" - "In mnemonic debates - debates over what really happened - we get very upset because we say 'this is not opinion; this is not values; this is truth, and you're telling me that you don't understand the truth.' And when we get to that point, we're in a bad position because we can not get out of those rhetorical corners. So usually this is not about propositional truth; it's about narrative truth." - "When we say, 'X is in a different world,' it means 'I don't have a way of understand the gulf that separates us' or 'X is not in touch with reality,' it means 'I don't understand what this other perspective is.' We're in what I would call a 'mnemonic standoff.'" - "We use narratives as if they're clear windows and you look right through them (but) it's more like a prism. You think you're looking that way but you're really seeing something over here. You don't know that the prism is shaping what you see. That's the way narratives work" I like it! On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 5:55 PM Julian Williams < julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk> wrote: > Anthony, again! > > > > Let me help you here, pace NYTimes: > > > > *If this turns out to be true:* > > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/22/opinion/coronavirus-us-cases.html__;!!Mih3wA!XviqlLPcMOLS6BB2wIq9s4aG2w_Hxrgy2L3AorSg23NED2YTFwrSDhzKWtjvzRnZXLVGtg$ > [nytimes.com] > > > The number of new cases appears to have peaked about a week and a half > ago. But the decline since then has been very modest. There are still about > 30,000 Americans being diagnosed each day. The seven-day moving average of > new cases ? a measure that smooths out daily fluctuations ? has declined > only 2 percent since it peaked 11 days ago. > > As you can see that?s not typical. In other countries, the number of new > cases has usually declined much more sharply after peaking. > > Why? It?s impossible to know for certain with a virus as complex and > unknown as this one. But there is an obvious potential cause: Many > political leaders in the United States, including President Trump, are not > following the advice of public health experts regarding distancing.. > > > > *and this turns out to be true:* > > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/22/us/politics/coronavirus-china-disinformation.html?referringSource=articleShare__;!!Mih3wA!XviqlLPcMOLS6BB2wIq9s4aG2w_Hxrgy2L3AorSg23NED2YTFwrSDhzKWtjvzRmdxLfsWQ$ > [nytimes.com] > > > American officials were alarmed by fake text messages and social media > posts that said President Trump was locking down the country. > > > > *Then there is a possibility that dissent in the US that could lead to the > nightmare scenario of ongoing very high levels of transmission for some > time to come.* > > > > I can?t make up my mind from what you write - which is always incredibly > arch - whether you are suggesting the Trump administration is playing a > clever game in encouraging these deathly trends, in view of the much more > important outcome of victory in your upcoming elections. > > > > Julian, again! > > > > BTW this is not an anti *American* rant, as we have the same crass > ?leadership? over here: check out John Ashton on DDN (Double Down News) ? > this is indeed a global politics now, perhaps just in time too. > > > > > > *From: * on behalf of Anthony Barra < > anthonymbarra@gmail.com> > *Reply-To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > *Date: *Wednesday, 22 April 2020 at 19:05 > *To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: As of 2020, the American Century is Over > > > > Andy, > > > > Unless someone beats me to it, I will annotate this article when time > allows -- not as a fact-check or correction, but from an occluded view. > > > > Thank you for writing it; it is an excellent answer to the question, "what > might the view from abroad look like, if reliant primarily on the *New > York Times* and *CNN?*" (i.e., similar to the view domestically, under > same conditions) > > > > This is not an insult nor critique -- as you know from our offline > exchanges. It just is what it is; I have my blind spots too (we are all > human). > > > > Cheers ~ > > Anthony > > > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:33 AM Andy Blunden wrote: > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/American-Century.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!XviqlLPcMOLS6BB2wIq9s4aG2w_Hxrgy2L3AorSg23NED2YTFwrSDhzKWtjvzRkUxeDurw$ > [ethicalpolitics.org] > > > Andy > > -- > ------------------------------ > > *Andy Blunden* > Hegel for Social Movements [brill.com] > > Home Page [ethicalpolitics.org] > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200422/eac1b39f/attachment.html From a.j.gil@ils.uio.no Wed Apr 22 17:25:55 2020 From: a.j.gil@ils.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2020 00:25:55 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: As of 2020, the American Century is Over In-Reply-To: References: <85fc2557-3931-47ff-12d4-267e9281a955@marxists.org> Message-ID: <0DDCFA09-10FF-46C3-8851-125BB8C07A07@uio.no> Speaking here as someone interested, no intention to moderate anything here, just participating as someone really interested, and frankly quite puzzled by the later reference to narrativization and social memory? Climate change is a narrative, of course; or rather, it is many narratives. Do we agree? But climate change also is many more things than just many narratives, is not it? I mean, it also is a number of facts, events, correlations, and death tolls. The same goes for 9/11, or the holocaust, right? We can tell different stories about each of these historical events, and still count the same numbers when we go about counting corpses. Don?t we? Negationism is also a narrative, isn?t it? Negating that there is such a thing as climate change, or that there is such a thing as a public health crisis. But it also is more than a narrative, isn?t it? It is a movement of people, and a powerful moving force indeed. You can tell the story that yes, there may be some pandemic, but no ?good? reason to be keeping social distance, not for this long, not in this state, not for this professions or work classes... People may go out to the streets and manifest, in the US, or in Germany, or elsewhere, rightfully telling the story that we should open the country now. Others may tell to themselves to better stay home. Either way, we can still count the death tolls, or look at the numbers in the NYT article below. After we get our numbers, do our correlations, if we do like scientists (and perhaps being in the business we should), we may present a rapport. We may discover whether there was relation between policies and death numbers, or poll numbers, or number of acres burned in the next fires against ppm of CO2 in the atmosphere. We can show all those numbers in Fox, or in the NYT, or Aljazeera. Either way, it will always be possible for someone like the current president of the US to read the numbers and say?like he said when asked about an internal report made by his own administration documenting the devastating effects of climate change for the nation??I?ve seen it [the report], I?ve read some of it and ? it?s fine. I don?t believe it?. https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szHhWhZZzTs__;!!Mih3wA!VTtW7UoXlYcxVq3lQJfeIkOpNulv2mwZScVwIiwXTJY24cU2M3BucDf7zjVcNhYgL3ad2A$ . After all, it?s just a chronicle, a narrativization? or is it? So yes, I think Anthony is right. People see what they want to see and seem to have little difficulty finding confirmation, and there certainly is no one true story in either side of the bi-partisan spectrum. Unfortunately, though, running records of predicted effects of Climate Change are turning to be worse than predicted, and not independently of the story being told. The more negationism?s been fueled, the higher the numbers, the temperatures, and displaced people. After the fact, some stories and chronicles about these developments will be certainly more righteous than others, that?s for sure. Some may lead to even higher death toll numbers, or extinction, and some may help future generations learn how to survive or even thrive. But who knows? Thanks for raising such important issues, and for the opportunity to learn about them. Alfredo From: on behalf of Anthony Barra Reply to: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Date: Thursday, 23 April 2020 at 01:33 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: As of 2020, the American Century is Over Thank you for your concern, Julian. The sky has been falling here since 2015 -- or so they say. Maybe this time, at long last, they are right. I don't think so, but maybe. I have observed that most people, regardless of "team," 1) see what they want to see and have little difficulty finding confirmation (especially on the Internet); and 2) rarely maintain running records of their predictions (even on the Internet). Maybe you have noticed this as well. Would like to see something really cool? It's this lecture, you might know it: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WInttyZYt3A__;!!Mih3wA!VTtW7UoXlYcxVq3lQJfeIkOpNulv2mwZScVwIiwXTJY24cU2M3BucDf7zjVcNhaljr6HDg$ [youtube.com] I collected some quotes from it once, as it reminded me of an interesting concept known around here as "two movies on one screen." Some quotes from the speaker, Jim Wertsch: * "Memory and history are not scientific in the sense that they rely on narrativization -- narrative." * "A chronicle wants to tell a story . . . what does...narrativization, or narrative organization, add to a chronicle?" * "When we talk about 'Is a story true or not?' we're talking about a different kind of truth than a propositional truth; when we say 'true story' what we largely mean is 'right story' or 'the correct story' - but that's a self-centered view...different from propositional truth" * "In mnemonic debates - debates over what really happened - we get very upset because we say 'this is not opinion; this is not values; this is truth, and you're telling me that you don't understand the truth.' And when we get to that point, we're in a bad position because we can not get out of those rhetorical corners. So usually this is not about propositional truth; it's about narrative truth." * "When we say, 'X is in a different world,' it means 'I don't have a way of understand the gulf that separates us' or 'X is not in touch with reality,' it means 'I don't understand what this other perspective is.' We're in what I would call a 'mnemonic standoff.'" * "We use narratives as if they're clear windows and you look right through them (but) it's more like a prism. You think you're looking that way but you're really seeing something over here. You don't know that the prism is shaping what you see. That's the way narratives work" I like it! On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 5:55 PM Julian Williams > wrote: Anthony, again! Let me help you here, pace NYTimes: If this turns out to be true: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/22/opinion/coronavirus-us-cases.html__;!!Mih3wA!VTtW7UoXlYcxVq3lQJfeIkOpNulv2mwZScVwIiwXTJY24cU2M3BucDf7zjVcNhYgl5x4ig$ [nytimes.com] The number of new cases appears to have peaked about a week and a half ago. But the decline since then has been very modest. There are still about 30,000 Americans being diagnosed each day. The seven-day moving average of new cases ? a measure that smooths out daily fluctuations ? has declined only 2 percent since it peaked 11 days ago. As you can see that?s not typical. In other countries, the number of new cases has usually declined much more sharply after peaking. Why? It?s impossible to know for certain with a virus as complex and unknown as this one. But there is an obvious potential cause: Many political leaders in the United States, including President Trump, are not following the advice of public health experts regarding distancing.. and this turns out to be true: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/22/us/politics/coronavirus-china-disinformation.html?referringSource=articleShare__;!!Mih3wA!VTtW7UoXlYcxVq3lQJfeIkOpNulv2mwZScVwIiwXTJY24cU2M3BucDf7zjVcNha9XwkTjA$ [nytimes.com] American officials were alarmed by fake text messages and social media posts that said President Trump was locking down the country. Then there is a possibility that dissent in the US that could lead to the nightmare scenario of ongoing very high levels of transmission for some time to come. I can?t make up my mind from what you write - which is always incredibly arch - whether you are suggesting the Trump administration is playing a clever game in encouraging these deathly trends, in view of the much more important outcome of victory in your upcoming elections. Julian, again! BTW this is not an anti American rant, as we have the same crass ?leadership? over here: check out John Ashton on DDN (Double Down News) ? this is indeed a global politics now, perhaps just in time too. From: > on behalf of Anthony Barra > Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Date: Wednesday, 22 April 2020 at 19:05 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: As of 2020, the American Century is Over Andy, Unless someone beats me to it, I will annotate this article when time allows -- not as a fact-check or correction, but from an occluded view. Thank you for writing it; it is an excellent answer to the question, "what might the view from abroad look like, if reliant primarily on the New York Times and CNN?" (i.e., similar to the view domestically, under same conditions) This is not an insult nor critique -- as you know from our offline exchanges. It just is what it is; I have my blind spots too (we are all human). Cheers ~ Anthony On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:33 AM Andy Blunden > wrote: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/American-Century.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!VTtW7UoXlYcxVq3lQJfeIkOpNulv2mwZScVwIiwXTJY24cU2M3BucDf7zjVcNhZuYMUq2w$ [ethicalpolitics.org] Andy -- ________________________________ Andy Blunden Hegel for Social Movements [brill.com] Home Page [ethicalpolitics.org] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200423/8687d5c2/attachment.html From andyb@marxists.org Wed Apr 22 18:21:43 2020 From: andyb@marxists.org (Andy Blunden) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2020 11:21:43 +1000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: As of 2020, the American Century is Over In-Reply-To: References: <85fc2557-3931-47ff-12d4-267e9281a955@marxists.org> Message-ID: <9358ab95-3499-b78f-6e91-d2cb3bd690e0@marxists.org> Anthony, I mainly rely on the ABC (the Australian Broadcasting Corporation), widely accepted as the most trusted source of news and analysis in Australia, run by professional journalists, and independent of Rupert Murdoch. The NYT has a pay wall and CNN is not available here. As Alfredo notes, it is no news to anyone here that reality is in the eye of the beholder, and the world's experience with the tolerance of Americans for Trump is the greatest evidence of this truism one could ask for. My perceptions are conditioned by living in a country which had its first cases about the same time as America and we were in an exponential rise doubling every 3.5 days, like New York, in early March, but wonder or wonders our Prime Minister, who is one of the handful of Trump-admirers in Australian politics - changed!! Apart from some rather vindicative exclusions of foreign workers and casuals from the economic survival package, he has given ideal leadership, possibly because he immediately created a new body called the "National Cabinet" which included all the state Premiers (majority Labor) and collaborated with stakeholders rather than legislating or issuing orders. All decisions have been made collaboratively and in public. The result was that trust in government has been magically restored and we are down to *single figures* of new cases per day. Our hospitals are quiet places. It is an open question whether Scott Morrison will "win" the next election; that will depend on how he acts as restrictions are lifted, I imagine, but that is absolutely the last criterion on which he will be judged by the Australian people and history. (c.f. Winston Churchill). When I have made errors in judgment over the past months, it has always been my consistent underestimation of the tolerance of Americans for lies and stupidity. But that will not stop me from continuing to make the same mistake and remaining optimistic for the future. Though I agree with Mike: there will be suffering. Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ *Andy Blunden* Hegel for Social Movements Home Page On 23/04/2020 4:02 am, Anthony Barra wrote: > Andy, > > Unless someone beats me to it, I will annotate this > article when time allows -- not as a fact-check or > correction,?but from an occluded view. > > Thank you for writing it; it is an excellent answer to the > question, "what might the view from abroad look like, if > reliant primarily on the /New York Times/?and /CNN?/" > (i.e., similar to the view domestically, under same > conditions) > > This is not an insult nor critique -- as you know from our > offline exchanges. It just is what it is; I have my blind > spots too (we are all human). > > Cheers ~ > Anthony > > > > On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:33 AM Andy Blunden > > wrote: > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/American-Century.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!UdbPxUu2xrRvkqJFMkhqvGcbnH0KIgpgfOlvzVVzRHnIO0tF08x45tk0WNZyheIxtoxuHw$ > [ethicalpolitics.org] > > > Andy > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------ > *Andy Blunden* > Hegel for Social Movements [brill.com] > > Home Page [ethicalpolitics.org] > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200423/7472da24/attachment.html From andyb@marxists.org Wed Apr 22 20:53:03 2020 From: andyb@marxists.org (Andy Blunden) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2020 13:53:03 +1000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: As of 2020, the American Century is Over In-Reply-To: <9358ab95-3499-b78f-6e91-d2cb3bd690e0@marxists.org> References: <85fc2557-3931-47ff-12d4-267e9281a955@marxists.org> <9358ab95-3499-b78f-6e91-d2cb3bd690e0@marxists.org> Message-ID: <2da29601-0d36-4186-7e56-9000bb72595b@marxists.org> A short supplement. Apart from the ABC, I rely on my wonderful American friends. One of these, M., lives in Brooklyn and has worked all his life in the NY hospital system, and I sent him my first draft for comment. His voluminous reply was presaged "I disagreed with much of it ..." including his opinion that the American Century was over in January 2017 and that he thought things would go back to normal once the pandemic was over. I held my ground on those two issues, but thankfully he was able to correct a number of errors resulting from the fact that I live a world away from America. M. is the most erudite and critical person I have ever known, so I am always sure of my sources when M. has checked them for me. Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ *Andy Blunden* Hegel for Social Movements Home Page On 23/04/2020 11:21 am, Andy Blunden wrote: > > Anthony, I mainly rely on the ABC (the Australian > Broadcasting Corporation), widely accepted as the most > trusted source of news and analysis in Australia, run by > professional journalists, and independent of Rupert > Murdoch. The NYT has a pay wall and CNN is not available here. > > As Alfredo notes, it is no news to anyone here that > reality is in the eye of the beholder, and the world's > experience with the tolerance of Americans for Trump is > the greatest evidence of this truism one could ask for. > > My perceptions are conditioned by living in a country > which had its first cases about the same time as America > and we were in an exponential rise doubling every 3.5 > days, like New York, in early March, but wonder or wonders > our Prime Minister, who is one of the handful of > Trump-admirers in Australian politics - changed!! Apart > from some rather vindicative exclusions of foreign workers > and casuals from the economic survival package, he has > given ideal leadership, possibly because he immediately > created a new body called the "National Cabinet" which > included all the state Premiers (majority Labor) and > collaborated with stakeholders rather than legislating or > issuing orders. All decisions have been made > collaboratively and in public. The result was that trust > in government has been magically restored and we are down > to *single figures* of new cases per day. Our hospitals > are quiet places. > > It is an open question whether Scott Morrison will "win" > the next election; that will depend on how he acts as > restrictions are lifted, I imagine, but that is absolutely > the last criterion on which he will be judged by the > Australian people and history. (c.f. Winston Churchill). > > When I have made errors in judgment over the past months, > it has always been my consistent underestimation of the > tolerance of Americans for lies and stupidity. But that > will not stop me from continuing to make the same mistake > and remaining optimistic for the future. Though I agree > with Mike: there will be suffering. > > Andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > *Andy Blunden* > Hegel for Social Movements [brill.com] > > Home Page [ethicalpolitics.org] > > > On 23/04/2020 4:02 am, Anthony Barra wrote: >> Andy, >> >> Unless someone beats me to it, I will annotate this >> article when time allows -- not as a fact-check or >> correction,?but from an occluded view. >> >> Thank you for writing it; it is an excellent answer to >> the question, "what might the view from abroad look like, >> if reliant primarily on the /New York Times/?and /CNN?/" >> (i.e., similar to the view domestically, under same >> conditions) >> >> This is not an insult nor critique -- as you know from >> our offline exchanges. It just is what it is; I have my >> blind spots too (we are all human). >> >> Cheers ~ >> Anthony >> >> >> >> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:33 AM Andy Blunden >> > wrote: >> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/American-Century.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!St0ZG0_KDAbW0pB4x8rPtZi_5fqPmB7qfSkLqfcUBE2r10cBdRUcVtsG1YtzTcS_F5VJ0w$ >> [ethicalpolitics.org] >> >> >> Andy >> >> -- >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> *Andy Blunden* >> Hegel for Social Movements [brill.com] >> >> Home Page [ethicalpolitics.org] >> >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200423/c9d00dfe/attachment.html From boblake@georgiasouthern.edu Wed Apr 22 21:03:00 2020 From: boblake@georgiasouthern.edu (Robert Lake) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2020 00:03:00 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: As of 2020, the American Century is Over In-Reply-To: <2da29601-0d36-4186-7e56-9000bb72595b@marxists.org> References: <85fc2557-3931-47ff-12d4-267e9281a955@marxists.org> <9358ab95-3499-b78f-6e91-d2cb3bd690e0@marxists.org> <2da29601-0d36-4186-7e56-9000bb72595b@marxists.org> Message-ID: I was amazed at how much you packed in to this piece Andy. How long did it take you to write the first draft? Robert Lake On Wednesday, April 22, 2020, Andy Blunden wrote: > A short supplement. > > Apart from the ABC, I rely on my wonderful American friends. One of these, > M., lives in Brooklyn and has worked all his life in the NY hospital > system, and I sent him my first draft for comment. His voluminous reply was > presaged "I disagreed with much of it ..." including his opinion that the > American Century was over in January 2017 and that he thought things would > go back to normal once the pandemic was over. I held my ground on those two > issues, but thankfully he was able to correct a number of errors resulting > from the fact that I live a world away from America. M. is the most erudite > and critical person I have ever known, so I am always sure of my sources > when M. has checked them for me. > > Andy > ------------------------------ > *Andy Blunden* > Hegel for Social Movements [brill.com] > > Home Page [ethicalpolitics.org] > > On 23/04/2020 11:21 am, Andy Blunden wrote: > > Anthony, I mainly rely on the ABC (the Australian Broadcasting > Corporation), widely accepted as the most trusted source of news and > analysis in Australia, run by professional journalists, and independent of > Rupert Murdoch. The NYT has a pay wall and CNN is not available here. > > As Alfredo notes, it is no news to anyone here that reality is in the eye > of the beholder, and the world's experience with the tolerance of Americans > for Trump is the greatest evidence of this truism one could ask for. > > My perceptions are conditioned by living in a country which had its first > cases about the same time as America and we were in an exponential rise > doubling every 3.5 days, like New York, in early March, but wonder or > wonders our Prime Minister, who is one of the handful of Trump-admirers in > Australian politics - changed!! Apart from some rather vindicative > exclusions of foreign workers and casuals from the economic survival > package, he has given ideal leadership, possibly because he immediately > created a new body called the "National Cabinet" which included all the > state Premiers (majority Labor) and collaborated with stakeholders rather > than legislating or issuing orders. All decisions have been made > collaboratively and in public. The result was that trust in government has > been magically restored and we are down to *single figures* of new cases > per day. Our hospitals are quiet places. > > It is an open question whether Scott Morrison will "win" the next > election; that will depend on how he acts as restrictions are lifted, I > imagine, but that is absolutely the last criterion on which he will be > judged by the Australian people and history. (c.f. Winston Churchill). > > When I have made errors in judgment over the past months, it has always > been my consistent underestimation of the tolerance of Americans for lies > and stupidity. But that will not stop me from continuing to make the same > mistake and remaining optimistic for the future. Though I agree with Mike: > there will be suffering. > > Andy > ------------------------------ > *Andy Blunden* > Hegel for Social Movements [brill.com] > > Home Page [ethicalpolitics.org] > > On 23/04/2020 4:02 am, Anthony Barra wrote: > > Andy, > > Unless someone beats me to it, I will annotate this article when time > allows -- not as a fact-check or correction, but from an occluded view. > > Thank you for writing it; it is an excellent answer to the question, "what > might the view from abroad look like, if reliant primarily on the *New > York Times* and *CNN?*" (i.e., similar to the view domestically, under > same conditions) > > This is not an insult nor critique -- as you know from our offline > exchanges. It just is what it is; I have my blind spots too (we are all > human). > > Cheers ~ > Anthony > > > > On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:33 AM Andy Blunden wrote: > >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/American-Century.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!XRSA9Oi1sjB06AsMnHfwlOGoyCssp_SPFXPooetfOYbVuFk3Kf3kfRAcVS-PmTnnIye92w$ >> [ethicalpolitics.org] >> >> >> Andy >> -- >> ------------------------------ >> *Andy Blunden* >> Hegel for Social Movements [brill.com] >> >> Home Page [ethicalpolitics.org] >> >> > -- Sent from Gmail Mobile -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200423/63216431/attachment.html From andyb@marxists.org Wed Apr 22 21:27:58 2020 From: andyb@marxists.org (Andy Blunden) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2020 14:27:58 +1000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: As of 2020, the American Century is Over In-Reply-To: References: <85fc2557-3931-47ff-12d4-267e9281a955@marxists.org> <9358ab95-3499-b78f-6e91-d2cb3bd690e0@marxists.org> <2da29601-0d36-4186-7e56-9000bb72595b@marxists.org> Message-ID: Ha, ha, Robert. I wrote it in one crazy stint of 5 or 6 hours and then sent it off to M. for critique, made the revisions the next morning in half and hour and then posted it. It is not meant to be a sober and balanced "scientific" article. Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ *Andy Blunden* Hegel for Social Movements Home Page On 23/04/2020 2:03 pm, Robert Lake wrote: > I was amazed at how much you packed in to this piece Andy. > How long did it take you to write the first draft? > Robert Lake > > On Wednesday, April 22, 2020, Andy Blunden > > wrote: > > A short supplement. > > Apart from the ABC, I rely on my wonderful American > friends. One of these, M., lives in Brooklyn and has > worked all his life in the NY hospital system, and I > sent him my first draft for comment. His voluminous > reply was presaged "I disagreed with much of it ..." > including his opinion that the American Century was > over in January 2017 and that he thought things would > go back to normal once the pandemic was over. I held > my ground on those two issues, but thankfully he was > able to correct a number of errors resulting from the > fact that I live a world away from America. M. is the > most erudite and critical person I have ever known, so > I am always sure of my sources when M. has checked > them for me. > > Andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > *Andy Blunden* > Hegel for Social Movements [brill.com] > > Home Page [ethicalpolitics.org] > > > On 23/04/2020 11:21 am, Andy Blunden wrote: >> >> Anthony, I mainly rely on the ABC (the Australian >> Broadcasting Corporation), widely accepted as the >> most trusted source of news and analysis in >> Australia, run by professional journalists, and >> independent of Rupert Murdoch. The NYT has a pay wall >> and CNN is not available here. >> >> As Alfredo notes, it is no news to anyone here that >> reality is in the eye of the beholder, and the >> world's experience with the tolerance of Americans >> for Trump is the greatest evidence of this truism one >> could ask for. >> >> My perceptions are conditioned by living in a country >> which had its first cases about the same time as >> America and we were in an exponential rise doubling >> every 3.5 days, like New York, in early March, but >> wonder or wonders our Prime Minister, who is one of >> the handful of Trump-admirers in Australian politics >> - changed!! Apart from some rather vindicative >> exclusions of foreign workers and casuals from the >> economic survival package, he has given ideal >> leadership, possibly because he immediately created a >> new body called the "National Cabinet" which included >> all the state Premiers (majority Labor) and >> collaborated with stakeholders rather than >> legislating or issuing orders. All decisions have >> been made collaboratively and in public. The result >> was that trust in government has been magically >> restored and we are down to *single figures* of new >> cases per day. Our hospitals are quiet places. >> >> It is an open question whether Scott Morrison will >> "win" the next election; that will depend on how he >> acts as restrictions are lifted, I imagine, but that >> is absolutely the last criterion on which he will be >> judged by the Australian people and history. (c.f. >> Winston Churchill). >> >> When I have made errors in judgment over the past >> months, it has always been my consistent >> underestimation of the tolerance of Americans for >> lies and stupidity. But that will not stop me from >> continuing to make the same mistake and remaining >> optimistic for the future. Though I agree with Mike: >> there will be suffering. >> >> Andy >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> *Andy Blunden* >> Hegel for Social Movements [brill.com] >> >> Home Page [ethicalpolitics.org] >> >> >> On 23/04/2020 4:02 am, Anthony Barra wrote: >>> Andy, >>> >>> Unless someone beats me to it, I will annotate this >>> article when time allows -- not as a fact-check or >>> correction,?but from an occluded view. >>> >>> Thank you for writing it; it is an excellent answer >>> to the question, "what might the view from abroad >>> look like, if reliant primarily on the /New York >>> Times/?and /CNN?/" (i.e., similar to the view >>> domestically, under same conditions) >>> >>> This is not an insult nor critique -- as you know >>> from our offline exchanges. It just is what it is; I >>> have my blind spots too (we are all human). >>> >>> Cheers ~ >>> Anthony >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:33 AM Andy Blunden >>> > wrote: >>> >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/American-Century.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!XNPS3SyvimPE07DN6bpEg8ZcRNBUYPF2wTLYm-ZSOSV0csUsdgt-LD3B5263lR3YoDqfow$ >>> [ethicalpolitics.org] >>> >>> >>> Andy >>> >>> -- >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> *Andy Blunden* >>> Hegel for Social Movements [brill.com] >>> >>> Home Page [ethicalpolitics.org] >>> >>> >>> > > > -- > Sent from Gmail Mobile -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200423/e0940b3d/attachment-0001.html From dkellogg60@gmail.com Thu Apr 23 04:37:04 2020 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2020 20:37:04 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Love's In Need of Lean on Me Message-ID: Anthony: Wertsch believes that governments have very limited power to create narratives: they can only "produce" narratives that people will "consume", never mind that this production and consumption involves neither fixed nor variable capital and exchanges neither use nor exchange value, and he feels no need whatsoever to offer us a theory (beyond "my side bias", which is nothing but a Piagetian egocentrism that dare not speak its name) about why one culture should prefer this narrative and another should prefer that one. An example he gives is that the US Communist Party never in its history, which is now over a century long, was able to produce a narrative that American workers wanted to consume. Except that whole generations of terror, state and private, were manifestly required to bring about this happy result: race riots, night-riding, lynching, and massacres. Even then HUAC and McCarthy were required to consolidate it. Ethel Rosenberg was practically burnt at the stake; Paul Robeson practically driven to suicide. .And still you have weird little kids like me, born the child of a Manhattan Project scientist, who dares to believe all the things that so surprise and shock Wertsch: that the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was an unconscionable war crime whose only real purpose was to scare the USSR away from China and Korea (where a huge proportion of the population had to be murdered less they "consume" the Communist "narrative"). I believed these things not because of a narrative template, but simply because they fit perfectly with facts I grew up knowing. Now that I live here I know these things are true and undeniable, the way that Auschwitz and Birkenau cannot be denied. I think that Wertsch's powers of decentration fail him right at the crucial moment: his very notion of narrative as a basis of human culture is ethocentric, because it is based on the language variables that Han Hui-jeong and I called SELF: Subjects, Expectancy of nominal bias, Linearity of sentences along SVO lines, and the Focalizing voice that passes judgement at the end of the story. These are not properties of culture, as Wertsch seems to think, they are merely properties of the English language. Similarly, "narrative" is simply an individual realization of a particular autobiographical genre, quite different to and alien from the way that most people on this planet experience the episodes of their lives. And even genre is, despite the work of J.R. Martin, not an over-arching category which all discourse semantics must realize: genre is a rather fusty and fixed category of something much larger we can call meaning potential. It is much easier to explain my own beliefs and even the productions of Korean children as mash-ups of a growing repertoire of genres, similar to repertoires of music: classical, folk, K-pop and R&B. (Did you catch Stevie Wonder's mash-up of "Lean on Me" and "Love's in Need of Love Today"? https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vgfBJhlEEo__;!!Mih3wA!WwA-tBJOSIPWHffI6l01V56XDACw7rS9pUwfERwHIq5y7LHof50x9gnwjNDy2ONah0WO6Q$ Is it narrative or repertoire?) David Kellogg Sangmyung University Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of *Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational action research' in Mind Culture and Activity* https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847__;!!Mih3wA!WwA-tBJOSIPWHffI6l01V56XDACw7rS9pUwfERwHIq5y7LHof50x9gnwjNDy2OM01OQ3Yg$ Some free e-prints available at: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080*10749039.2020.1745847__;Lw!!Mih3wA!WwA-tBJOSIPWHffI6l01V56XDACw7rS9pUwfERwHIq5y7LHof50x9gnwjNDy2OMB9VtfUA$ New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!WwA-tBJOSIPWHffI6l01V56XDACw7rS9pUwfERwHIq5y7LHof50x9gnwjNDy2OOF0N3D8g$ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200423/2c61736b/attachment.html From boblake@georgiasouthern.edu Thu Apr 23 05:26:48 2020 From: boblake@georgiasouthern.edu (Robert Lake) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2020 08:26:48 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: As of 2020, the American Century is Over In-Reply-To: References: <85fc2557-3931-47ff-12d4-267e9281a955@marxists.org> <9358ab95-3499-b78f-6e91-d2cb3bd690e0@marxists.org> <2da29601-0d36-4186-7e56-9000bb72595b@marxists.org> Message-ID: That is what I love about it. In fact it reads beautifully. On Thursday, April 23, 2020, Andy Blunden wrote: > Ha, ha, Robert. I wrote it in one crazy stint of 5 or 6 hours and then > sent it off to M. for critique, made the revisions the next morning in half > and hour and then posted it. It is not meant to be a sober and balanced > "scientific" article. > > Andy > ------------------------------ > *Andy Blunden* > Hegel for Social Movements [brill.com] > > Home Page [ethicalpolitics.org] > > On 23/04/2020 2:03 pm, Robert Lake wrote: > > I was amazed at how much you packed in to this piece Andy. How long did it > take you to write the first draft? > Robert Lake > > On Wednesday, April 22, 2020, Andy Blunden wrote: > >> A short supplement. >> >> Apart from the ABC, I rely on my wonderful American friends. One of >> these, M., lives in Brooklyn and has worked all his life in the NY hospital >> system, and I sent him my first draft for comment. His voluminous reply was >> presaged "I disagreed with much of it ..." including his opinion that the >> American Century was over in January 2017 and that he thought things would >> go back to normal once the pandemic was over. I held my ground on those two >> issues, but thankfully he was able to correct a number of errors resulting >> from the fact that I live a world away from America. M. is the most erudite >> and critical person I have ever known, so I am always sure of my sources >> when M. has checked them for me. >> >> Andy >> ------------------------------ >> *Andy Blunden* >> Hegel for Social Movements [brill.com] >> >> Home Page [ethicalpolitics.org] >> >> On 23/04/2020 11:21 am, Andy Blunden wrote: >> >> Anthony, I mainly rely on the ABC (the Australian Broadcasting >> Corporation), widely accepted as the most trusted source of news and >> analysis in Australia, run by professional journalists, and independent of >> Rupert Murdoch. The NYT has a pay wall and CNN is not available here. >> >> As Alfredo notes, it is no news to anyone here that reality is in the eye >> of the beholder, and the world's experience with the tolerance of Americans >> for Trump is the greatest evidence of this truism one could ask for. >> >> My perceptions are conditioned by living in a country which had its first >> cases about the same time as America and we were in an exponential rise >> doubling every 3.5 days, like New York, in early March, but wonder or >> wonders our Prime Minister, who is one of the handful of Trump-admirers in >> Australian politics - changed!! Apart from some rather vindicative >> exclusions of foreign workers and casuals from the economic survival >> package, he has given ideal leadership, possibly because he immediately >> created a new body called the "National Cabinet" which included all the >> state Premiers (majority Labor) and collaborated with stakeholders rather >> than legislating or issuing orders. All decisions have been made >> collaboratively and in public. The result was that trust in government has >> been magically restored and we are down to *single figures* of new cases >> per day. Our hospitals are quiet places. >> >> It is an open question whether Scott Morrison will "win" the next >> election; that will depend on how he acts as restrictions are lifted, I >> imagine, but that is absolutely the last criterion on which he will be >> judged by the Australian people and history. (c.f. Winston Churchill). >> >> When I have made errors in judgment over the past months, it has always >> been my consistent underestimation of the tolerance of Americans for lies >> and stupidity. But that will not stop me from continuing to make the same >> mistake and remaining optimistic for the future. Though I agree with Mike: >> there will be suffering. >> >> Andy >> ------------------------------ >> *Andy Blunden* >> Hegel for Social Movements [brill.com] >> >> Home Page [ethicalpolitics.org] >> >> On 23/04/2020 4:02 am, Anthony Barra wrote: >> >> Andy, >> >> Unless someone beats me to it, I will annotate this article when time >> allows -- not as a fact-check or correction, but from an occluded view. >> >> Thank you for writing it; it is an excellent answer to the question, >> "what might the view from abroad look like, if reliant primarily on the *New >> York Times* and *CNN?*" (i.e., similar to the view domestically, under >> same conditions) >> >> This is not an insult nor critique -- as you know from our offline >> exchanges. It just is what it is; I have my blind spots too (we are all >> human). >> >> Cheers ~ >> Anthony >> >> >> >> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:33 AM Andy Blunden wrote: >> >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/American-Century.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!WsrhewbxozlrKUNF5_hhkiThvufzfV3qtW2HK-Mnq5OUof3sg4G8DA-XhczxT18upDSHUA$ >>> [ethicalpolitics.org] >>> >>> >>> Andy >>> -- >>> ------------------------------ >>> *Andy Blunden* >>> Hegel for Social Movements [brill.com] >>> >>> Home Page [ethicalpolitics.org] >>> >>> >> > > -- > Sent from Gmail Mobile > > -- Sent from Gmail Mobile -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200423/4646638d/attachment.html From anthonymbarra@gmail.com Thu Apr 23 11:22:16 2020 From: anthonymbarra@gmail.com (Anthony Barra) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2020 14:22:16 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Love's In Need of Lean on Me In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you. In this post, David provides value for me by including a video I might enjoy, and even greater value to the group by writing three paragraphs they will understand. I will reread a few times and try to take what I can from them. Thanks again ~ Anthony On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 7:41 AM David Kellogg wrote: > Anthony: > > Wertsch believes that governments have very limited power to create > narratives: they can only "produce" narratives that people will "consume", > never mind that this production and consumption involves neither fixed nor > variable capital and exchanges neither use nor exchange value, and he feels > no need whatsoever to offer us a theory (beyond "my side bias", which is > nothing but a Piagetian egocentrism that dare not speak its name) about why > one culture should prefer this narrative and another should prefer that > one. An example he gives is that the US Communist Party never in its > history, which is now over a century long, was able to produce a narrative > that American workers wanted to consume. > > Except that whole generations of terror, state and private, were > manifestly required to bring about this happy result: race riots, > night-riding, lynching, and massacres. Even then HUAC and McCarthy were > required to consolidate it. Ethel Rosenberg was practically burnt at the > stake; Paul Robeson practically driven to suicide. .And still you have > weird little kids like me, born the child of a Manhattan Project scientist, > who dares to believe all the things that so surprise and shock Wertsch: > that the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was an unconscionable war > crime whose only real purpose was to scare the USSR away from China and > Korea (where a huge proportion of the population had to be murdered less > they "consume" the Communist "narrative"). I believed these things not > because of a narrative template, but simply because they fit perfectly with > facts I grew up knowing. Now that I live here I know these things are true > and undeniable, the way that Auschwitz and Birkenau cannot be denied. > > I think that Wertsch's powers of decentration fail him right at the > crucial moment: his very notion of narrative as a basis of human culture is > ethocentric, because it is based on the language variables that Han > Hui-jeong and I called SELF: Subjects, Expectancy of nominal bias, > Linearity of sentences along SVO lines, and the Focalizing voice that > passes judgement at the end of the story. These are not properties of > culture, as Wertsch seems to think, they are merely properties of the > English language. Similarly, "narrative" is simply an individual > realization of a particular autobiographical genre, quite different to and > alien from the way that most people on this planet experience the episodes > of their lives. And even genre is, despite the work of J.R. Martin, not an > over-arching category which all discourse semantics must realize: genre is > a rather fusty and fixed category of something much larger we can call > meaning potential. It is much easier to explain my own beliefs and even the > productions of Korean children as mash-ups of a growing repertoire of > genres, similar to repertoires of music: classical, folk, K-pop and R&B. > > (Did you catch Stevie Wonder's mash-up of "Lean on Me" and "Love's in Need > of Love Today"? https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vgfBJhlEEo__;!!Mih3wA!VmB6KgQmSDNIszSxdUc3dNvZH2KjqeYJpcgjFW37Towd5WVXpbb_urKQXxJAX854B5HhkA$ [youtube.com] > Is > it narrative or repertoire?) > > David Kellogg > Sangmyung University > > Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of *Critical > Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational > action research' in Mind Culture and Activity* > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847__;!!Mih3wA!VmB6KgQmSDNIszSxdUc3dNvZH2KjqeYJpcgjFW37Towd5WVXpbb_urKQXxJAX85tcCYUXA$ > [tandfonline.com] > > > Some free e-prints available at: > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080*10749039.2020.1745847__;Lw!!Mih3wA!VmB6KgQmSDNIszSxdUc3dNvZH2KjqeYJpcgjFW37Towd5WVXpbb_urKQXxJAX86qTPGjiQ$ > [tandfonline.com] > > > New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works > Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!VmB6KgQmSDNIszSxdUc3dNvZH2KjqeYJpcgjFW37Towd5WVXpbb_urKQXxJAX84xj8LQww$ [springer.com] > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200423/579382bb/attachment.html From dkellogg60@gmail.com Thu Apr 23 14:15:16 2020 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 06:15:16 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Love's In Need of Lean on Me In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You can lean on me, Anthony. I was, as you guessed, being pretty critical of the video you sent around: I think Wertsch hasn't even got his Hayden White right (Hayden White was drawing on a study of medieval literature and he argued that the narrative is not so much memory as moral iinstruction). But most of the moral instruction (not entertainment) I intended is there in the tune, which is from the recent "Home Alone" concert which Lady Gaga curated over Zoom. As you probably heard, Stevie Wonder is mashing up a song from the late great Bill Withers that goes like this: You just call on me, Brother, when you need a hand We all need somebody to lean on I just might have a problem that you'll understand We all need somebody to lean on Interestingly, a lot of people can't follow that switch. Even my wife argues that it makes the idea of mutuality transactional--the song says that you can lean on me if and only if I can then lean on you, which makes it a covert form of exchange. So there are some versions that switch the pronouns and sing "You just might have a problem that I'll understand" which makes it coherent narrative, but entirely unidirectional. But there's a real moral message which makes it a Hayden White type narrative. It's not just about mutuality. It's about this: Good morn or evening friends Here's your friendly announcer I have serious news to pass on to every-body What I'm about to say Could mean the world's disaster Could change your joy and laughter to tears and pain It's that Love's in need of love today Don't delay Send yours in right away Hate's goin' round Breaking many hearts Stop it please Before it's gone too far The force of evil plans To make you its possession And it will if we let it Destroy everybody We all must take Precautionary measures If love and peace you treasure Then you'll hear me when I say Love's in need of love today love's in need of love today Don't delay don't delay Send yours in right away See what I mean? It's not really a narrative. It's not even two narratives spliced together. It's repertoire: the kind of thing a great musician carries around in his or her head. But that head carries that repertoire not just because it leans on ten thousand hours of gruelling practice (pace Malcolm Gladwell). That repertoire is a subset of meaning potential winnowed (not "produced") by a thousand years of turbulent history (which is what Hayden White REALLY said), That's what we are seeing now. David Kellogg Sangmyung University Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of *Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational action research' in Mind Culture and Activity* https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847__;!!Mih3wA!SO4kUoEeU_FR5aPViymlPNA0pwker2y0TwRxTsCASYxLLKB4bIsIF2okDfLtTcDjV92fpQ$ Some free e-prints available at: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080*10749039.2020.1745847__;Lw!!Mih3wA!SO4kUoEeU_FR5aPViymlPNA0pwker2y0TwRxTsCASYxLLKB4bIsIF2okDfLtTcA7Hdqguw$ New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!SO4kUoEeU_FR5aPViymlPNA0pwker2y0TwRxTsCASYxLLKB4bIsIF2okDfLtTcDdQp814g$ On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 3:25 AM Anthony Barra wrote: > Thank you. In this post, David provides value for me by including a video > I might enjoy, and even greater value to the group by writing three > paragraphs they will understand. > > I will reread a few times and try to take what I can from them. > > Thanks again ~ > Anthony > > > > On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 7:41 AM David Kellogg > wrote: > >> Anthony: >> >> Wertsch believes that governments have very limited power to create >> narratives: they can only "produce" narratives that people will "consume", >> never mind that this production and consumption involves neither fixed nor >> variable capital and exchanges neither use nor exchange value, and he feels >> no need whatsoever to offer us a theory (beyond "my side bias", which is >> nothing but a Piagetian egocentrism that dare not speak its name) about why >> one culture should prefer this narrative and another should prefer that >> one. An example he gives is that the US Communist Party never in its >> history, which is now over a century long, was able to produce a narrative >> that American workers wanted to consume. >> >> Except that whole generations of terror, state and private, were >> manifestly required to bring about this happy result: race riots, >> night-riding, lynching, and massacres. Even then HUAC and McCarthy were >> required to consolidate it. Ethel Rosenberg was practically burnt at the >> stake; Paul Robeson practically driven to suicide. .And still you have >> weird little kids like me, born the child of a Manhattan Project scientist, >> who dares to believe all the things that so surprise and shock Wertsch: >> that the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was an unconscionable war >> crime whose only real purpose was to scare the USSR away from China and >> Korea (where a huge proportion of the population had to be murdered less >> they "consume" the Communist "narrative"). I believed these things not >> because of a narrative template, but simply because they fit perfectly with >> facts I grew up knowing. Now that I live here I know these things are true >> and undeniable, the way that Auschwitz and Birkenau cannot be denied. >> >> I think that Wertsch's powers of decentration fail him right at the >> crucial moment: his very notion of narrative as a basis of human culture is >> ethocentric, because it is based on the language variables that Han >> Hui-jeong and I called SELF: Subjects, Expectancy of nominal bias, >> Linearity of sentences along SVO lines, and the Focalizing voice that >> passes judgement at the end of the story. These are not properties of >> culture, as Wertsch seems to think, they are merely properties of the >> English language. Similarly, "narrative" is simply an individual >> realization of a particular autobiographical genre, quite different to and >> alien from the way that most people on this planet experience the episodes >> of their lives. And even genre is, despite the work of J.R. Martin, not an >> over-arching category which all discourse semantics must realize: genre is >> a rather fusty and fixed category of something much larger we can call >> meaning potential. It is much easier to explain my own beliefs and even the >> productions of Korean children as mash-ups of a growing repertoire of >> genres, similar to repertoires of music: classical, folk, K-pop and R&B. >> >> (Did you catch Stevie Wonder's mash-up of "Lean on Me" and "Love's in >> Need of Love Today"? https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vgfBJhlEEo__;!!Mih3wA!SO4kUoEeU_FR5aPViymlPNA0pwker2y0TwRxTsCASYxLLKB4bIsIF2okDfLtTcDRhC5TIw$ >> [youtube.com] >> Is >> it narrative or repertoire?) >> >> David Kellogg >> Sangmyung University >> >> Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of *Critical >> Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational >> action research' in Mind Culture and Activity* >> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847__;!!Mih3wA!SO4kUoEeU_FR5aPViymlPNA0pwker2y0TwRxTsCASYxLLKB4bIsIF2okDfLtTcDjV92fpQ$ >> [tandfonline.com] >> >> >> Some free e-prints available at: >> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080*10749039.2020.1745847__;Lw!!Mih3wA!SO4kUoEeU_FR5aPViymlPNA0pwker2y0TwRxTsCASYxLLKB4bIsIF2okDfLtTcA7Hdqguw$ >> [tandfonline.com] >> >> >> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works >> Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" >> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!SO4kUoEeU_FR5aPViymlPNA0pwker2y0TwRxTsCASYxLLKB4bIsIF2okDfLtTcDdQp814g$ [springer.com] >> >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200424/314f75b5/attachment.html From helenaworthen@gmail.com Thu Apr 23 15:29:58 2020 From: helenaworthen@gmail.com (Helena Worthen) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2020 15:29:58 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: As of 2020, the American Century is Over In-Reply-To: <2da29601-0d36-4186-7e56-9000bb72595b@marxists.org> References: <85fc2557-3931-47ff-12d4-267e9281a955@marxists.org> <9358ab95-3499-b78f-6e91-d2cb3bd690e0@marxists.org> <2da29601-0d36-4186-7e56-9000bb72595b@marxists.org> Message-ID: <9D268F94-6734-4515-A3E1-DBB8AAA1F415@gmail.com> I assume it?s OK to share this around, right? Thanks ? H Helena Worthen h elenaworthen@gmail.com > On Apr 22, 2020, at 8:53 PM, Andy Blunden wrote: > > A short supplement. > Apart from the ABC, I rely on my wonderful American friends. One of these, M., lives in Brooklyn and has worked all his life in the NY hospital system, and I sent him my first draft for comment. His voluminous reply was presaged "I disagreed with much of it ..." including his opinion that the American Century was over in January 2017 and that he thought things would go back to normal once the pandemic was over. I held my ground on those two issues, but thankfully he was able to correct a number of errors resulting from the fact that I live a world away from America. M. is the most erudite and critical person I have ever known, so I am always sure of my sources when M. has checked them for me. > > Andy > Andy Blunden > Hegel for Social Movements [brill.com] > Home Page [ethicalpolitics.org] > On 23/04/2020 11:21 am, Andy Blunden wrote: >> Anthony, I mainly rely on the ABC (the Australian Broadcasting Corporation), widely accepted as the most trusted source of news and analysis in Australia, run by professional journalists, and independent of Rupert Murdoch. The NYT has a pay wall and CNN is not available here. >> >> As Alfredo notes, it is no news to anyone here that reality is in the eye of the beholder, and the world's experience with the tolerance of Americans for Trump is the greatest evidence of this truism one could ask for. >> >> My perceptions are conditioned by living in a country which had its first cases about the same time as America and we were in an exponential rise doubling every 3.5 days, like New York, in early March, but wonder or wonders our Prime Minister, who is one of the handful of Trump-admirers in Australian politics - changed!! Apart from some rather vindicative exclusions of foreign workers and casuals from the economic survival package, he has given ideal leadership, possibly because he immediately created a new body called the "National Cabinet" which included all the state Premiers (majority Labor) and collaborated with stakeholders rather than legislating or issuing orders. All decisions have been made collaboratively and in public. The result was that trust in government has been magically restored and we are down to single figures of new cases per day. Our hospitals are quiet places. >> It is an open question whether Scott Morrison will "win" the next election; that will depend on how he acts as restrictions are lifted, I imagine, but that is absolutely the last criterion on which he will be judged by the Australian people and history. (c.f. Winston Churchill). >> When I have made errors in judgment over the past months, it has always been my consistent underestimation of the tolerance of Americans for lies and stupidity. But that will not stop me from continuing to make the same mistake and remaining optimistic for the future. Though I agree with Mike: there will be suffering. >> >> Andy >> Andy Blunden >> Hegel for Social Movements [brill.com] >> Home Page [ethicalpolitics.org] >> On 23/04/2020 4:02 am, Anthony Barra wrote: >>> Andy, >>> >>> Unless someone beats me to it, I will annotate this article when time allows -- not as a fact-check or correction, but from an occluded view. >>> >>> Thank you for writing it; it is an excellent answer to the question, "what might the view from abroad look like, if reliant primarily on the New York Times and CNN?" (i.e., similar to the view domestically, under same conditions) >>> >>> This is not an insult nor critique -- as you know from our offline exchanges. It just is what it is; I have my blind spots too (we are all human). >>> >>> Cheers ~ >>> Anthony >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:33 AM Andy Blunden > wrote: >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/American-Century.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!SspywBIFcsbvZrozxcSwYQMoReSdEl2oT1CZxUMa6XOZuCsQTR0QxmypkNCKHnXIsfRNlQ$ [ethicalpolitics.org] >>> Andy >>> -- >>> Andy Blunden >>> Hegel for Social Movements [brill.com] >>> Home Page [ethicalpolitics.org] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200423/82a67efe/attachment.html From anthonymbarra@gmail.com Fri Apr 24 06:29:08 2020 From: anthonymbarra@gmail.com (Anthony Barra) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 09:29:08 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Love's In Need of Lean on Me In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: David, thanks for adjusting the language from your first to second message, on my behalf (and likely others as well). I'm not much of an intellectual, or scholar, but I find this place interesting, even while much of the discourse, and many references are over my head. Whereas you see "a covert form of exchange," I saw good old reciprocity -- maybe that says something about us as beholders. "We" is a good pronoun; "I" and "you" are too, functionally and otherwise. (In fact, I persuaded my way into my current job by shifting my pronouns from mostly "I" and some "you," to "you" and "we," following an old Dale Carnegie tip). I'm gonna lay off song two for now; my sense is we like the tune but diverge on the interpretation -- which is cool with me; I'm pro-diversity, especially viewpoint diversity. Thanks again for your clarifications and your scholarly references; they give me avenues to explore. Anthony P.S. What does "That's what we are seeing now" mean? If you want. Don't feel obliged to answer, but I'm not following. On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 5:20 PM David Kellogg wrote: > You can lean on me, Anthony. I was, as you guessed, being pretty critical > of the video you sent around: I think Wertsch hasn't even got his Hayden > White right (Hayden White was drawing on a study of medieval literature and > he argued that the narrative is not so much memory as moral iinstruction). > But most of the moral instruction (not entertainment) I intended is there > in the tune, which is from the recent "Home Alone" concert which Lady Gaga > curated over Zoom. > > As you probably heard, Stevie Wonder is mashing up a song from the late > great Bill Withers that goes like this: > > You just call on me, Brother, when you need a hand > We all need somebody to lean on > I just might have a problem that you'll understand > We all need somebody to lean on > > Interestingly, a lot of people can't follow that switch. Even my wife > argues that it makes the idea of mutuality transactional--the song says > that you can lean on me if and only if I can then lean on you, which makes > it a covert form of exchange. So there are some versions that switch the > pronouns and sing "You just might have a problem that I'll understand" > which makes it coherent narrative, but entirely unidirectional. > > But there's a real moral message which makes it a Hayden White type > narrative. It's not just about mutuality. It's about this: > > Good morn or evening friends > Here's your friendly announcer > I have serious news to pass on to every-body > What I'm about to say > Could mean the world's disaster > Could change your joy and laughter to tears and pain > > It's that > Love's in need of love today > Don't delay > Send yours in right away > Hate's goin' round > Breaking many hearts > Stop it please > Before it's gone too far > > The force of evil plans > To make you its possession > And it will if we let it > Destroy everybody > We all must take > Precautionary measures > If love and peace you treasure > Then you'll hear me when I say > > Love's in need of love today > love's in need of love today > Don't delay don't delay > Send yours in right away > > See what I mean? It's not really a narrative. It's not even two narratives > spliced together. It's repertoire: the kind of thing a great musician > carries around in his or her head. But that head carries that repertoire > not just because it leans on ten thousand hours of gruelling practice (pace > Malcolm Gladwell). That repertoire is a subset of meaning potential > winnowed (not "produced") by a thousand years of turbulent history (which > is what Hayden White REALLY said), That's what we are seeing now. > > David Kellogg > Sangmyung University > > Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of *Critical > Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational > action research' in Mind Culture and Activity* > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847__;!!Mih3wA!Q1EghsDP9rTNZzusGU1asTC9I3zHqhM2ABpl0kXB3Y7xg92ZVUwOLUYlP3sqV9cjzrxzzQ$ > [tandfonline.com] > > > Some free e-prints available at: > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080*10749039.2020.1745847__;Lw!!Mih3wA!Q1EghsDP9rTNZzusGU1asTC9I3zHqhM2ABpl0kXB3Y7xg92ZVUwOLUYlP3sqV9edI9JSFw$ > [tandfonline.com] > > > New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works > Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!Q1EghsDP9rTNZzusGU1asTC9I3zHqhM2ABpl0kXB3Y7xg92ZVUwOLUYlP3sqV9erp_MIKg$ [springer.com] > > > > > On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 3:25 AM Anthony Barra > wrote: > >> Thank you. In this post, David provides value for me by including a video >> I might enjoy, and even greater value to the group by writing three >> paragraphs they will understand. >> >> I will reread a few times and try to take what I can from them. >> >> Thanks again ~ >> Anthony >> >> >> >> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 7:41 AM David Kellogg >> wrote: >> >>> Anthony: >>> >>> Wertsch believes that governments have very limited power to create >>> narratives: they can only "produce" narratives that people will "consume", >>> never mind that this production and consumption involves neither fixed nor >>> variable capital and exchanges neither use nor exchange value, and he feels >>> no need whatsoever to offer us a theory (beyond "my side bias", which is >>> nothing but a Piagetian egocentrism that dare not speak its name) about why >>> one culture should prefer this narrative and another should prefer that >>> one. An example he gives is that the US Communist Party never in its >>> history, which is now over a century long, was able to produce a narrative >>> that American workers wanted to consume. >>> >>> Except that whole generations of terror, state and private, were >>> manifestly required to bring about this happy result: race riots, >>> night-riding, lynching, and massacres. Even then HUAC and McCarthy were >>> required to consolidate it. Ethel Rosenberg was practically burnt at the >>> stake; Paul Robeson practically driven to suicide. .And still you have >>> weird little kids like me, born the child of a Manhattan Project scientist, >>> who dares to believe all the things that so surprise and shock Wertsch: >>> that the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was an unconscionable war >>> crime whose only real purpose was to scare the USSR away from China and >>> Korea (where a huge proportion of the population had to be murdered less >>> they "consume" the Communist "narrative"). I believed these things not >>> because of a narrative template, but simply because they fit perfectly with >>> facts I grew up knowing. Now that I live here I know these things are true >>> and undeniable, the way that Auschwitz and Birkenau cannot be denied. >>> >>> I think that Wertsch's powers of decentration fail him right at the >>> crucial moment: his very notion of narrative as a basis of human culture is >>> ethocentric, because it is based on the language variables that Han >>> Hui-jeong and I called SELF: Subjects, Expectancy of nominal bias, >>> Linearity of sentences along SVO lines, and the Focalizing voice that >>> passes judgement at the end of the story. These are not properties of >>> culture, as Wertsch seems to think, they are merely properties of the >>> English language. Similarly, "narrative" is simply an individual >>> realization of a particular autobiographical genre, quite different to and >>> alien from the way that most people on this planet experience the episodes >>> of their lives. And even genre is, despite the work of J.R. Martin, not an >>> over-arching category which all discourse semantics must realize: genre is >>> a rather fusty and fixed category of something much larger we can call >>> meaning potential. It is much easier to explain my own beliefs and even the >>> productions of Korean children as mash-ups of a growing repertoire of >>> genres, similar to repertoires of music: classical, folk, K-pop and R&B. >>> >>> (Did you catch Stevie Wonder's mash-up of "Lean on Me" and "Love's in >>> Need of Love Today"? https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vgfBJhlEEo__;!!Mih3wA!Q1EghsDP9rTNZzusGU1asTC9I3zHqhM2ABpl0kXB3Y7xg92ZVUwOLUYlP3sqV9fq6pZWNg$ >>> [youtube.com] >>> Is >>> it narrative or repertoire?) >>> >>> David Kellogg >>> Sangmyung University >>> >>> Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of *Critical >>> Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational >>> action research' in Mind Culture and Activity* >>> >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847__;!!Mih3wA!Q1EghsDP9rTNZzusGU1asTC9I3zHqhM2ABpl0kXB3Y7xg92ZVUwOLUYlP3sqV9cjzrxzzQ$ >>> [tandfonline.com] >>> >>> >>> Some free e-prints available at: >>> >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080*10749039.2020.1745847__;Lw!!Mih3wA!Q1EghsDP9rTNZzusGU1asTC9I3zHqhM2ABpl0kXB3Y7xg92ZVUwOLUYlP3sqV9edI9JSFw$ >>> [tandfonline.com] >>> >>> >>> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works >>> Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" >>> >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!Q1EghsDP9rTNZzusGU1asTC9I3zHqhM2ABpl0kXB3Y7xg92ZVUwOLUYlP3sqV9erp_MIKg$ [springer.com] >>> >>> >>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200424/e184695b/attachment.html From greg.a.thompson@gmail.com Fri Apr 24 11:01:58 2020 From: greg.a.thompson@gmail.com (Greg Thompson) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 12:01:58 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Covid as World Perezhivanie? Message-ID: I'm wondering about Andy's suggestion that covid-19 is a (or maybe "is creating a"?) world perezhivanie. That seems a really rich suggestion but I'm not sure how many of us on the list really understand what he means by this. Andy tends to just tell me to go read more and so I'm wondering if someone else might be willing to take a stab at explaining what he might mean. Also, as a critical intervention, I am wondering whether covid-19 is the "same" for everyone. We have folks in the U.S. who think it is basically just a typical flu that has been turned into a political tool to attack the current president. Or does that not matter for perezhivanie? (and just to be clear, my question is not whether or not this is true or right or beautiful to think this way; my question is whether or not this is how people are actually experiencing the world since I assume that this is what perezhivanie is supposed to be "getting at". Or am I misunderstanding perezhivanie?) So is there really a shared perezhivanie here? (Is The Problem of Age the place to look for answers?) But if no one wants to take this up (perhaps too much ink has been spilt over perezhivanie?), that's fine too. Cheers, greg -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!WN8l_yYMTbBnmCBcPiLWU5hQYwPZIdGtHFRjEQb6reqIHexrpd3i0uUYMaQe4C4$ https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!WN8l_yYMTbBnmCBcPiLWU5hQYwPZIdGtHFRjEQb6reqIHexrpd3i0uUYNZy2lRg$ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200424/8d79a69c/attachment.html From mcole@ucsd.edu Fri Apr 24 11:22:17 2020 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 11:22:17 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Greg- If there is a one right way to interpret the term, perezhivanie, I have no idea what it is. The term is polysemic in Russian. I would suggest that people check out the special issue of MCA devoted to this topic. https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/toc/hmca20/23/4?nav=tocList__;!!Mih3wA!Ru_LNDTIFaF00CT1DTghJDhyxqfkySan841wvZgdYM49ppRsG1vjLwlBvPz2Pw4$ These viewpoints are not exhaustive. The other night I was watching "Servant of the People" created by Volodymir Zelensky on netflix. Absolutely amazing, funny, and very very political. The most outstanding case of life imitating art I have yet encountered. In the program, which is in Russian with subtitles in English, an irate father, irritated by his son's failure to grasp the nature of corruption in Ukraine tells him "dont perezhvai" in a manner that roughly translates as "don't get upset about it." The example lacks the "pere" suffix (the over again aspect) of re-experiencing an intense emotion/cognition. But this everyday meaning is used commonly. To me, the idea of "world perezhivanie" points to the fact that we are all "living through a period of suffering" with lots of cognitions, but it for those still standing 20 years from now to reflect back on. The crisis is just beginning. my 2 kopeks mike On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 11:03 AM Greg Thompson wrote: > I'm wondering about Andy's suggestion that covid-19 is a (or maybe "is > creating a"?) world perezhivanie. That seems a really rich suggestion but > I'm not sure how many of us on the list really understand what he means by > this. > > Andy tends to just tell me to go read more and so I'm wondering if someone > else might be willing to take a stab at explaining what he might mean. > > Also, as a critical intervention, I am wondering whether covid-19 is the > "same" for everyone. We have folks in the U.S. who think it is basically > just a typical flu that has been turned into a political tool to attack the > current president. Or does that not matter for perezhivanie? > > (and just to be clear, my question is not whether or not this is true or > right or beautiful to think this way; my question is whether or not this is > how people are actually experiencing the world since I assume that this is > what perezhivanie is supposed to be "getting at". Or am I misunderstanding > perezhivanie?) > > So is there really a shared perezhivanie here? > (Is The Problem of Age the place to look for answers?) > > But if no one wants to take this up (perhaps too much ink has been spilt > over perezhivanie?), that's fine too. > > Cheers, > greg > > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!Ru_LNDTIFaF00CT1DTghJDhyxqfkySan841wvZgdYM49ppRsG1vjLwlB_cnDAWM$ > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!Ru_LNDTIFaF00CT1DTghJDhyxqfkySan841wvZgdYM49ppRsG1vjLwlBM-n6aoY$ > > -- the creation of utopias ? and their exhaustive criticism ? is the proper and distinctive method of sociology. H.G.Wells --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200424/40c8b7b6/attachment.html From mcole@ucsd.edu Fri Apr 24 11:22:17 2020 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 11:22:17 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Greg- If there is a one right way to interpret the term, perezhivanie, I have no idea what it is. The term is polysemic in Russian. I would suggest that people check out the special issue of MCA devoted to this topic. https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/toc/hmca20/23/4?nav=tocList__;!!Mih3wA!WKwgnbs6JQqRsIY-0s7DdDKMDdHpKGpBUzVDyoIBP9kN0KTK1bO_Vymkx4GzNKd3LD-A-w$ These viewpoints are not exhaustive. The other night I was watching "Servant of the People" created by Volodymir Zelensky on netflix. Absolutely amazing, funny, and very very political. The most outstanding case of life imitating art I have yet encountered. In the program, which is in Russian with subtitles in English, an irate father, irritated by his son's failure to grasp the nature of corruption in Ukraine tells him "dont perezhvai" in a manner that roughly translates as "don't get upset about it." The example lacks the "pere" suffix (the over again aspect) of re-experiencing an intense emotion/cognition. But this everyday meaning is used commonly. To me, the idea of "world perezhivanie" points to the fact that we are all "living through a period of suffering" with lots of cognitions, but it for those still standing 20 years from now to reflect back on. The crisis is just beginning. my 2 kopeks mike On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 11:03 AM Greg Thompson wrote: > I'm wondering about Andy's suggestion that covid-19 is a (or maybe "is > creating a"?) world perezhivanie. That seems a really rich suggestion but > I'm not sure how many of us on the list really understand what he means by > this. > > Andy tends to just tell me to go read more and so I'm wondering if someone > else might be willing to take a stab at explaining what he might mean. > > Also, as a critical intervention, I am wondering whether covid-19 is the > "same" for everyone. We have folks in the U.S. who think it is basically > just a typical flu that has been turned into a political tool to attack the > current president. Or does that not matter for perezhivanie? > > (and just to be clear, my question is not whether or not this is true or > right or beautiful to think this way; my question is whether or not this is > how people are actually experiencing the world since I assume that this is > what perezhivanie is supposed to be "getting at". Or am I misunderstanding > perezhivanie?) > > So is there really a shared perezhivanie here? > (Is The Problem of Age the place to look for answers?) > > But if no one wants to take this up (perhaps too much ink has been spilt > over perezhivanie?), that's fine too. > > Cheers, > greg > > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!WKwgnbs6JQqRsIY-0s7DdDKMDdHpKGpBUzVDyoIBP9kN0KTK1bO_Vymkx4GzNKd0CAQy8w$ > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!WKwgnbs6JQqRsIY-0s7DdDKMDdHpKGpBUzVDyoIBP9kN0KTK1bO_Vymkx4GzNKds1JLxMg$ > > -- the creation of utopias ? and their exhaustive criticism ? is the proper and distinctive method of sociology. H.G.Wells --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200424/40c8b7b6/attachment-0001.html From huw.softdesigns@gmail.com Fri Apr 24 12:38:21 2020 From: huw.softdesigns@gmail.com (Huw Lloyd) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 20:38:21 +0100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Greg, Experience, as a unit, does not seem adequate. Intentionality, rather, yields particular experiences (see section 8 of this paper). This pertains to Mike's anecdote of "do not experience it in that way", i.e. you can chose how to experience something on the basis of how you orient to it. In relation to international level agency, collective experience will be contingent upon the strategy employed mixed with that nation's politics and infrastructure. However, each nation's activity is a variation stemming from a "unitary cause". The variations yield the opportunity for learning from others, and so there is affordance for a greater synthesis. It seems this presents two hypotheses: that there is a manifest "world agency" (reasonable in terms of sharing knowledge, resources etc) and that a rubicon of sorts is approached which the experiencing will yield a new horizon etc. Numerous poetic forms come to mind to express the current circumstances. Covid-19 is an infrared light that allows many people to see the invisible ink with which many social contracts, conditions, and assumptions are writ. It is a "truth tablet" in the sense that objective events will transpire that cannot be papered over. It is a galvanising force in that we have the opportunity to stop things that it previously seemed impossible to stop. Covid-19 can be looked upon as a miraculous opportunity to allow unproductive "industries" to wither on the vine and apply the resources to better ends. Best, Huw On Fri, 24 Apr 2020 at 19:24, mike cole wrote: > Greg- > > If there is a one right way to interpret the term, perezhivanie, I have no > idea what it is. The term is polysemic in Russian. I would suggest that > people > check out the special issue of MCA devoted to this topic. > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/toc/hmca20/23/4?nav=tocList__;!!Mih3wA!RPaCFTHXiYnaN4uygfb0vfA2_iQQGBg4qpP5NegpT-dq3R0B8uIMTYm_PzVN9tA$ > > > > These viewpoints are not exhaustive. > > The other night I was watching "Servant of the People" created by > Volodymir Zelensky on netflix. Absolutely amazing, funny, and very very > political. The most outstanding case of life imitating art I have yet > encountered. In the program, which is in Russian with subtitles in > English, an irate father, irritated by his > son's failure to grasp the nature of corruption in Ukraine tells him > "dont perezhvai" in a manner that roughly translates as "don't get upset > about it." The example lacks the "pere" suffix (the over again aspect) of > re-experiencing an intense emotion/cognition. But this everyday meaning is > used commonly. > > To me, the idea of "world perezhivanie" points to the fact that we are all > "living through a period of suffering" with lots of cognitions, but it for > those still standing > 20 years from now to reflect back on. The crisis is just beginning. > > > my 2 kopeks > mike > > On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 11:03 AM Greg Thompson > wrote: > >> I'm wondering about Andy's suggestion that covid-19 is a (or maybe "is >> creating a"?) world perezhivanie. That seems a really rich suggestion but >> I'm not sure how many of us on the list really understand what he means by >> this. >> >> Andy tends to just tell me to go read more and so I'm wondering if >> someone else might be willing to take a stab at explaining what he might >> mean. >> >> Also, as a critical intervention, I am wondering whether covid-19 is the >> "same" for everyone. We have folks in the U.S. who think it is basically >> just a typical flu that has been turned into a political tool to attack the >> current president. Or does that not matter for perezhivanie? >> >> (and just to be clear, my question is not whether or not this is true or >> right or beautiful to think this way; my question is whether or not this is >> how people are actually experiencing the world since I assume that this is >> what perezhivanie is supposed to be "getting at". Or am I misunderstanding >> perezhivanie?) >> >> So is there really a shared perezhivanie here? >> (Is The Problem of Age the place to look for answers?) >> >> But if no one wants to take this up (perhaps too much ink has been spilt >> over perezhivanie?), that's fine too. >> >> Cheers, >> greg >> >> >> -- >> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >> Assistant Professor >> Department of Anthropology >> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >> Brigham Young University >> Provo, UT 84602 >> WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!RPaCFTHXiYnaN4uygfb0vfA2_iQQGBg4qpP5NegpT-dq3R0B8uIMTYm_E2aPXAQ$ >> >> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!RPaCFTHXiYnaN4uygfb0vfA2_iQQGBg4qpP5NegpT-dq3R0B8uIMTYm_apPPIxI$ >> >> > > > -- > > the creation of utopias ? and their exhaustive criticism ? is the proper > and distinctive method of sociology. H.G.Wells > > --------------------------------------------------- > For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other > members of LCHC, visit > lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the > research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200424/da2f63bd/attachment.html From huw.softdesigns@gmail.com Fri Apr 24 12:38:21 2020 From: huw.softdesigns@gmail.com (Huw Lloyd) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 20:38:21 +0100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Greg, Experience, as a unit, does not seem adequate. Intentionality, rather, yields particular experiences (see section 8 of this paper). This pertains to Mike's anecdote of "do not experience it in that way", i.e. you can chose how to experience something on the basis of how you orient to it. In relation to international level agency, collective experience will be contingent upon the strategy employed mixed with that nation's politics and infrastructure. However, each nation's activity is a variation stemming from a "unitary cause". The variations yield the opportunity for learning from others, and so there is affordance for a greater synthesis. It seems this presents two hypotheses: that there is a manifest "world agency" (reasonable in terms of sharing knowledge, resources etc) and that a rubicon of sorts is approached which the experiencing will yield a new horizon etc. Numerous poetic forms come to mind to express the current circumstances. Covid-19 is an infrared light that allows many people to see the invisible ink with which many social contracts, conditions, and assumptions are writ. It is a "truth tablet" in the sense that objective events will transpire that cannot be papered over. It is a galvanising force in that we have the opportunity to stop things that it previously seemed impossible to stop. Covid-19 can be looked upon as a miraculous opportunity to allow unproductive "industries" to wither on the vine and apply the resources to better ends. Best, Huw On Fri, 24 Apr 2020 at 19:24, mike cole wrote: > Greg- > > If there is a one right way to interpret the term, perezhivanie, I have no > idea what it is. The term is polysemic in Russian. I would suggest that > people > check out the special issue of MCA devoted to this topic. > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/toc/hmca20/23/4?nav=tocList__;!!Mih3wA!UnCykgRh9ZCM26w0yYpjYqT66GEXAAWyFaNO8BGtDZ--rK0JQSLjbSrAZaiP0PkIOdPzdw$ > > > > These viewpoints are not exhaustive. > > The other night I was watching "Servant of the People" created by > Volodymir Zelensky on netflix. Absolutely amazing, funny, and very very > political. The most outstanding case of life imitating art I have yet > encountered. In the program, which is in Russian with subtitles in > English, an irate father, irritated by his > son's failure to grasp the nature of corruption in Ukraine tells him > "dont perezhvai" in a manner that roughly translates as "don't get upset > about it." The example lacks the "pere" suffix (the over again aspect) of > re-experiencing an intense emotion/cognition. But this everyday meaning is > used commonly. > > To me, the idea of "world perezhivanie" points to the fact that we are all > "living through a period of suffering" with lots of cognitions, but it for > those still standing > 20 years from now to reflect back on. The crisis is just beginning. > > > my 2 kopeks > mike > > On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 11:03 AM Greg Thompson > wrote: > >> I'm wondering about Andy's suggestion that covid-19 is a (or maybe "is >> creating a"?) world perezhivanie. That seems a really rich suggestion but >> I'm not sure how many of us on the list really understand what he means by >> this. >> >> Andy tends to just tell me to go read more and so I'm wondering if >> someone else might be willing to take a stab at explaining what he might >> mean. >> >> Also, as a critical intervention, I am wondering whether covid-19 is the >> "same" for everyone. We have folks in the U.S. who think it is basically >> just a typical flu that has been turned into a political tool to attack the >> current president. Or does that not matter for perezhivanie? >> >> (and just to be clear, my question is not whether or not this is true or >> right or beautiful to think this way; my question is whether or not this is >> how people are actually experiencing the world since I assume that this is >> what perezhivanie is supposed to be "getting at". Or am I misunderstanding >> perezhivanie?) >> >> So is there really a shared perezhivanie here? >> (Is The Problem of Age the place to look for answers?) >> >> But if no one wants to take this up (perhaps too much ink has been spilt >> over perezhivanie?), that's fine too. >> >> Cheers, >> greg >> >> >> -- >> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >> Assistant Professor >> Department of Anthropology >> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >> Brigham Young University >> Provo, UT 84602 >> WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!UnCykgRh9ZCM26w0yYpjYqT66GEXAAWyFaNO8BGtDZ--rK0JQSLjbSrAZaiP0Pkb8d2ICQ$ >> >> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!UnCykgRh9ZCM26w0yYpjYqT66GEXAAWyFaNO8BGtDZ--rK0JQSLjbSrAZaiP0PnNnMeLkw$ >> >> > > > -- > > the creation of utopias ? and their exhaustive criticism ? is the proper > and distinctive method of sociology. H.G.Wells > > --------------------------------------------------- > For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other > members of LCHC, visit > lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the > research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200424/da2f63bd/attachment-0001.html From anthonymbarra@gmail.com Fri Apr 24 12:54:24 2020 From: anthonymbarra@gmail.com (Anthony Barra) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 15:54:24 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] COVID-19 Forecasting Tournament Message-ID: "Another chance to discover: do i know as much as i thought about the world, including covid19? Sign up by 5pm ET, 4/27 for a forecasting tournament to compete against soft benchmarks (chimps) & tough ones (superforecasters)" - Phil Tetlock (superforecaster) As a casual reader of this listserv, I can only conclude: Somebody from this group is gonna win, aren't they? (*I'm a very good predictor by the way . . . ) "EXPERIENCE OUR COVID-19 FORECASTING STUDY" Curious about how you size up against world-class problem-solvers and forecasters ? and about how much better your can get? Please join our coronavirus forecasting tournament that will let you compare your performance against a range of benchmarks, from dart-tossing chimps to seasoned professionals and Superforecasters." https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.gjp2.org/upenn__;!!Mih3wA!UlBe6PxFxP8uVMleh4-NQ8dF1xWFNhTeOhQbL2zgWdHjfSXxPMYC_ubaqzDHXizGAvsuwA$ ---> How much fun does this sound! <--- The mix of intelligence, confidence, certainty, and humility that is regularly on display here tells me: somebody from this group is gonna win; the odds are against it being me, but someone here can do it. Tell me I'm wrong . . . Or, tell me . . . who in this group would you say has a great shot at winning (and therefore should enter!) ??? Anthony *good stuff from your friend Andy and others here: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/33rpnz__;!!Mih3wA!UlBe6PxFxP8uVMleh4-NQ8dF1xWFNhTeOhQbL2zgWdHjfSXxPMYC_ubaqzDHXiwFKajCBA$ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200424/ec3ace0c/attachment.html From mpacker@cantab.net Fri Apr 24 13:06:27 2020 From: mpacker@cantab.net (Martin Packer) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 15:06:27 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: COVID-19 Forecasting Tournament In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <77F0946C-8A54-4278-9318-12BF99C69144@cantab.net> Anthony, Your question happens to coincide with some ongoing reflections on my part, and my conclusion has been that prediction here is not easy. 1. the pandemic is a black swan: an unlikely event with large consequences. These are by nature difficult to predict and so when they occur their consequences are also hard to anticipate. 2. the lack of adequate planning means that achieving desired outcomes is uncertain 3. outcomes will depend on human decisions and choices, which themselves are notoriously hard to predict 4. outcomes also depend on scientific and technological advances whose character and timing cannot be known in advance But Tetlock?s chimps may know more than I do. cheers Martin > On Apr 24, 2020, at 2:54 PM, Anthony Barra > wrote: > > "Another chance to discover: do i know as much as i thought about the world, including covid19? Sign up by 5pm ET, 4/27 for a forecasting tournament to compete against soft benchmarks (chimps) & tough ones (superforecasters)" - Phil Tetlock (superforecaster) > > As a casual reader of this listserv, I can only conclude: Somebody from this group is gonna win, aren't they? (*I'm a very good predictor by the way . . . ) > > "EXPERIENCE OUR COVID-19 FORECASTING STUDY" > > Curious about how you size up against world-class problem-solvers and forecasters ? and about how much better your can get? > > Please join our coronavirus forecasting tournament that will let you compare your performance against a range of benchmarks, from dart-tossing chimps to seasoned professionals and Superforecasters." https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.gjp2.org/upenn__;!!Mih3wA!W-ChMPlUk7ygsahYzcWHqg4uiVDdQeKRZMRKXh2yCQCCIvJHgzivXyvF9Dhi6aBPQJYmoA$ > > ---> How much fun does this sound! <--- > > The mix of intelligence, confidence, certainty, and humility that is regularly on display here tells me: somebody from this group is gonna win; the odds are against it being me, but someone here can do it. > > Tell me I'm wrong . . . > > Or, tell me . . . who in this group would you say has a great shot at winning (and therefore should enter!) > > ??? > > Anthony > > *good stuff from your friend Andy and others here: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/33rpnz__;!!Mih3wA!W-ChMPlUk7ygsahYzcWHqg4uiVDdQeKRZMRKXh2yCQCCIvJHgzivXyvF9Dhi6aCG1I5anA$ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200424/25d076c8/attachment.html From glassman.13@osu.edu Fri Apr 24 13:05:33 2020 From: glassman.13@osu.edu (Glassman, Michael) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 20:05:33 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Greg, So I have been exploring this for a couple of months, including read the MCA special issue. I wrote a post asking a question some weeks back as there seemed to be parallels between Vygotksy?s piece On the problem of the Actor?s Creative Work, which if the dates I have are right (and I am not sure they are) was the first time (after his dissertation) when Vygotsky used the term perezhinavie. I have been reading Jean Benedetti?s translation Stanislavski?s An Actor?s Work on and off for the last month. It is a pretty amazing piece of work. The parallels between Stanislavski?s early chapters and Vygotsky?s use of the concept, not just in the Actor?s creative work but in his other uses of the term in problem of age and problem of the environment, to me at least seem striking. I would go further than that and suggest there are also parallels with Chapter 7 of thinking and speech where Vygotsky?s does not use the specific word, but of course late in the chapter refers directly to Stanislavski and An Actor?s Work (although he does not name it ? because I believe, based on translation, the early chapters were just called experience, I am guessing perezhinavie ? at that point. So Stanislavski began writing an Actor?s Work in 1926, he had completed drafts of the early chapters in 1929. There is no way I think that Vygotsky could have made the references he does without having seen these drafts. In particular, he takes the idea of motivation for action, words, from Stanislavski?s chapter Bits and tasks where he makes almost exactly this same argument (some people may think Vygotsky misinterpreted Stanislavski, but I don?t think so). I think it is hard to make the argument that Vygotsky had not seen the drafts of these early chapters. Maybe less certain, but I would make the argument, that he was affected by them. Stanislavski?s ideas on perezhinavie dominated these early chapters, and as I said I see a number of parallels. All that said, I think there are many facets to Stanislavski?s perezhinavie, but I think central is the idea that action is humans primary expression to the audience (world) and that action to be worthwhile must be based in a (relative) truth (this may be because I recently read the chapter belief and the sense of truth which I found to be pretty profound). This action of a combination of the life the actor has lived with the scene that is playing out in the socio-historical time frame. In a theatrical sense, the author?s words combined with the historical moment (I felt like I really understood thins when we took one class to watch the Hamlet Olivier did just after World War II with the Hamlet Zeferelli did just after Reagan). The same words, but the historical moment made the plays completely different. Because you never act alone, the member?s of an ensemble are interdependent in the development of their action. In other words, from my reading, perezhinavie is both an individual and a communal experience, it is based on our individual histories and the historical moment and those that are around us. It is based on the steps we take in the journey of our actions and the motivations we have for moving forward with those actions. There is one point in the chapter on truth where Stanislavski in the character of the acting teacher Tortosov is asked about the psychology behind actions. Tortosov replies that of course there is psychology behind actions, but we cannot see them, so we can only know psychology through actions. Sort of a watch what they do not what they say moment. Anyway, with all that, I see perezhinavie as building emotional actions when individuals are working together ? in a way that moves beyond thought. Tortosov argues that it is when you are no longer thinking about your actions, you are simply doing them along with others. I don?t want give the impression that perezhinavie is a good. It is simply the truth. How does this translate into the idea of World perezhinavie, which was you original question Greg. I am not sure. I know Andy in his article did not refer much to Stanislavski?s chapters and was considering a more global definition. But this is my thinking on what I have been able to figure out about the concept as I hypothesize Vygotsky was using it. Michael From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu On Behalf Of Greg Thompson Sent: Friday, April 24, 2020 2:02 PM To: xmca-l@ucsd.edu Subject: [Xmca-l] Covid as World Perezhivanie? I'm wondering about Andy's suggestion that covid-19 is a (or maybe "is creating a"?) world perezhivanie. That seems a really rich suggestion but I'm not sure how many of us on the list really understand what he means by this. Andy tends to just tell me to go read more and so I'm wondering if someone else might be willing to take a stab at explaining what he might mean. Also, as a critical intervention, I am wondering whether covid-19 is the "same" for everyone. We have folks in the U.S. who think it is basically just a typical flu that has been turned into a political tool to attack the current president. Or does that not matter for perezhivanie? (and just to be clear, my question is not whether or not this is true or right or beautiful to think this way; my question is whether or not this is how people are actually experiencing the world since I assume that this is what perezhivanie is supposed to be "getting at". Or am I misunderstanding perezhivanie?) So is there really a shared perezhivanie here? (Is The Problem of Age the place to look for answers?) But if no one wants to take this up (perhaps too much ink has been spilt over perezhivanie?), that's fine too. Cheers, greg -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!RCJQspPsoiWN3RvGt3YDayr_DZXLbvYitiYJGBD8EU4hGVwq2HGSy748qZYXa-q7nS1JqA$ https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!RCJQspPsoiWN3RvGt3YDayr_DZXLbvYitiYJGBD8EU4hGVwq2HGSy748qZYXa-rssNmrZw$ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200424/93d7caa3/attachment.html From dkellogg60@gmail.com Fri Apr 24 13:52:14 2020 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2020 05:52:14 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Love's In Need of Lean on Me In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wertsch tries to naturalize "narrative" by repeating, several times, the statement that humans are narrative-making animals--as if he doubted it. Well he might! Humans are just as good at destroying narratives as they are at creating them, and there are many moments of semiohistory when vast swathes of narratives are winnowed away. Nobody reads epistolary novels, worries about predestination, or considers the chaste love of a knight for the wife of the king the ne plus ultra of sexuality. I think what both Mike and Andy mean by "world perezhivanie" is some historical moment when one narrative is shattered and a very different one, frequently the very opposite one, has to be jerry-rigged from the scraps. I don't think this applies to all perezhivanie, but it applies to perezhivanie in a moment of crisis, and this is one. Language can never actually be dumbed down: that is, translated into a simpler version of itself. That would imply that meanings pre-exist the language that creates them; it doesn't. Shakespeare doesn't mean the same thing as "Tales from Shakespeare", and chimpanzees are not "forecasting" the way that humans are (or even the way that Paul the Octopus used to forecast the outcome of the FIFA World Cup). If you buy an electric beard-trimmer or a pair of ear-buds, and you find that the instructions in different languages are of radically different lengths, you can assume that they do say radically different things--just try removing all of the grammatical subjects from the English sentences,which is what we normally do in Korean! Halliday said that language is "solidary", by which he did not mean that a given meaning is reliably signalled by a given wording which is reliably signalled by a given sounding. On the contrary, he meant that a change in meaning is always realized by a change in wording, which in turn is always realized by a change in sounding. Or spellingg. David Kellogg Sangmyung University New Article: Ruqaiya Hasan, in memoriam: A manual and a manifesto. Outlines, Spring 2020 https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238/167607__;!!Mih3wA!UVntZFFNh9RI3p3CDoUdqwi_WBrBFVSThiwpWg0xazjRoQh7t-zGJPAN62WZM0KvnZXTRQ$ New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: *L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works* *Volume One: Foundations of Pedology*" https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!UVntZFFNh9RI3p3CDoUdqwi_WBrBFVSThiwpWg0xazjRoQh7t-zGJPAN62WZM0KelcoQhg$ On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 10:31 PM Anthony Barra wrote: > David, thanks for adjusting the language from your first to second > message, on my behalf (and likely others as well). > > I'm not much of an intellectual, or scholar, but I find this place > interesting, even while much of the discourse, and many references are over > my head. > > Whereas you see "a covert form of exchange," I saw good old reciprocity -- > maybe that says something about us as beholders. "We" is a good pronoun; > "I" and "you" are too, functionally and otherwise. (In fact, I persuaded my > way into my current job by shifting my pronouns from mostly "I" and some > "you," to "you" and "we," following an old Dale Carnegie tip). > > I'm gonna lay off song two for now; my sense is we like the tune but > diverge on the interpretation -- which is cool with me; I'm pro-diversity, > especially viewpoint diversity. > > Thanks again for your clarifications and your scholarly references; they > give me avenues to explore. > > Anthony > > P.S. What does "That's what we are seeing now" mean? If you want. Don't > feel obliged to answer, but I'm not following. > > > > On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 5:20 PM David Kellogg > wrote: > >> You can lean on me, Anthony. I was, as you guessed, being pretty critical >> of the video you sent around: I think Wertsch hasn't even got his Hayden >> White right (Hayden White was drawing on a study of medieval literature and >> he argued that the narrative is not so much memory as moral iinstruction). >> But most of the moral instruction (not entertainment) I intended is there >> in the tune, which is from the recent "Home Alone" concert which Lady Gaga >> curated over Zoom. >> >> As you probably heard, Stevie Wonder is mashing up a song from the late >> great Bill Withers that goes like this: >> >> You just call on me, Brother, when you need a hand >> We all need somebody to lean on >> I just might have a problem that you'll understand >> We all need somebody to lean on >> >> Interestingly, a lot of people can't follow that switch. Even my wife >> argues that it makes the idea of mutuality transactional--the song says >> that you can lean on me if and only if I can then lean on you, which makes >> it a covert form of exchange. So there are some versions that switch the >> pronouns and sing "You just might have a problem that I'll understand" >> which makes it coherent narrative, but entirely unidirectional. >> >> But there's a real moral message which makes it a Hayden White type >> narrative. It's not just about mutuality. It's about this: >> >> Good morn or evening friends >> Here's your friendly announcer >> I have serious news to pass on to every-body >> What I'm about to say >> Could mean the world's disaster >> Could change your joy and laughter to tears and pain >> >> It's that >> Love's in need of love today >> Don't delay >> Send yours in right away >> Hate's goin' round >> Breaking many hearts >> Stop it please >> Before it's gone too far >> >> The force of evil plans >> To make you its possession >> And it will if we let it >> Destroy everybody >> We all must take >> Precautionary measures >> If love and peace you treasure >> Then you'll hear me when I say >> >> Love's in need of love today >> love's in need of love today >> Don't delay don't delay >> Send yours in right away >> >> See what I mean? It's not really a narrative. It's not even two >> narratives spliced together. It's repertoire: the kind of thing a great >> musician carries around in his or her head. But that head carries that >> repertoire not just because it leans on ten thousand hours of gruelling >> practice (pace Malcolm Gladwell). That repertoire is a subset of meaning >> potential winnowed (not "produced") by a thousand years of >> turbulent history (which is what Hayden White REALLY said), That's what we >> are seeing now. >> >> David Kellogg >> Sangmyung University >> >> Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of *Critical >> Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational >> action research' in Mind Culture and Activity* >> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847__;!!Mih3wA!UVntZFFNh9RI3p3CDoUdqwi_WBrBFVSThiwpWg0xazjRoQh7t-zGJPAN62WZM0JSM88AYg$ >> [tandfonline.com] >> >> >> Some free e-prints available at: >> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080*10749039.2020.1745847__;Lw!!Mih3wA!UVntZFFNh9RI3p3CDoUdqwi_WBrBFVSThiwpWg0xazjRoQh7t-zGJPAN62WZM0IPx5w7Rg$ >> [tandfonline.com] >> >> >> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works >> Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" >> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!UVntZFFNh9RI3p3CDoUdqwi_WBrBFVSThiwpWg0xazjRoQh7t-zGJPAN62WZM0KelcoQhg$ [springer.com] >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 3:25 AM Anthony Barra >> wrote: >> >>> Thank you. In this post, David provides value for me by including a >>> video I might enjoy, and even greater value to the group by writing three >>> paragraphs they will understand. >>> >>> I will reread a few times and try to take what I can from them. >>> >>> Thanks again ~ >>> Anthony >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 7:41 AM David Kellogg >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Anthony: >>>> >>>> Wertsch believes that governments have very limited power to create >>>> narratives: they can only "produce" narratives that people will "consume", >>>> never mind that this production and consumption involves neither fixed nor >>>> variable capital and exchanges neither use nor exchange value, and he feels >>>> no need whatsoever to offer us a theory (beyond "my side bias", which is >>>> nothing but a Piagetian egocentrism that dare not speak its name) about why >>>> one culture should prefer this narrative and another should prefer that >>>> one. An example he gives is that the US Communist Party never in its >>>> history, which is now over a century long, was able to produce a narrative >>>> that American workers wanted to consume. >>>> >>>> Except that whole generations of terror, state and private, were >>>> manifestly required to bring about this happy result: race riots, >>>> night-riding, lynching, and massacres. Even then HUAC and McCarthy were >>>> required to consolidate it. Ethel Rosenberg was practically burnt at the >>>> stake; Paul Robeson practically driven to suicide. .And still you have >>>> weird little kids like me, born the child of a Manhattan Project scientist, >>>> who dares to believe all the things that so surprise and shock Wertsch: >>>> that the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was an unconscionable war >>>> crime whose only real purpose was to scare the USSR away from China and >>>> Korea (where a huge proportion of the population had to be murdered less >>>> they "consume" the Communist "narrative"). I believed these things not >>>> because of a narrative template, but simply because they fit perfectly with >>>> facts I grew up knowing. Now that I live here I know these things are true >>>> and undeniable, the way that Auschwitz and Birkenau cannot be denied. >>>> >>>> I think that Wertsch's powers of decentration fail him right at the >>>> crucial moment: his very notion of narrative as a basis of human culture is >>>> ethocentric, because it is based on the language variables that Han >>>> Hui-jeong and I called SELF: Subjects, Expectancy of nominal bias, >>>> Linearity of sentences along SVO lines, and the Focalizing voice that >>>> passes judgement at the end of the story. These are not properties of >>>> culture, as Wertsch seems to think, they are merely properties of the >>>> English language. Similarly, "narrative" is simply an individual >>>> realization of a particular autobiographical genre, quite different to and >>>> alien from the way that most people on this planet experience the episodes >>>> of their lives. And even genre is, despite the work of J.R. Martin, not an >>>> over-arching category which all discourse semantics must realize: genre is >>>> a rather fusty and fixed category of something much larger we can call >>>> meaning potential. It is much easier to explain my own beliefs and even the >>>> productions of Korean children as mash-ups of a growing repertoire of >>>> genres, similar to repertoires of music: classical, folk, K-pop and R&B. >>>> >>>> (Did you catch Stevie Wonder's mash-up of "Lean on Me" and "Love's in >>>> Need of Love Today"? https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vgfBJhlEEo__;!!Mih3wA!UVntZFFNh9RI3p3CDoUdqwi_WBrBFVSThiwpWg0xazjRoQh7t-zGJPAN62WZM0JX_YWgrw$ >>>> [youtube.com] >>>> Is >>>> it narrative or repertoire?) >>>> >>>> David Kellogg >>>> Sangmyung University >>>> >>>> Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of *Critical >>>> Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational >>>> action research' in Mind Culture and Activity* >>>> >>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847__;!!Mih3wA!UVntZFFNh9RI3p3CDoUdqwi_WBrBFVSThiwpWg0xazjRoQh7t-zGJPAN62WZM0JSM88AYg$ >>>> [tandfonline.com] >>>> >>>> >>>> Some free e-prints available at: >>>> >>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080*10749039.2020.1745847__;Lw!!Mih3wA!UVntZFFNh9RI3p3CDoUdqwi_WBrBFVSThiwpWg0xazjRoQh7t-zGJPAN62WZM0IPx5w7Rg$ >>>> [tandfonline.com] >>>> >>>> >>>> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological >>>> Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" >>>> >>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!UVntZFFNh9RI3p3CDoUdqwi_WBrBFVSThiwpWg0xazjRoQh7t-zGJPAN62WZM0KelcoQhg$ [springer.com] >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200425/23cb2740/attachment.html From ulvi.icil@gmail.com Fri Apr 24 14:01:55 2020 From: ulvi.icil@gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?VWx2aSDEsMOnaWw=?=) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2020 00:01:55 +0300 Subject: [Xmca-l] Social distancing = ? Message-ID: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200425/a6eab241/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG-20200424-WA0041.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 31836 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200425/a6eab241/attachment.jpg From anthonymbarra@gmail.com Fri Apr 24 14:03:10 2020 From: anthonymbarra@gmail.com (Anthony Barra) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 17:03:10 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: COVID-19 Forecasting Tournament In-Reply-To: <77F0946C-8A54-4278-9318-12BF99C69144@cantab.net> References: <77F0946C-8A54-4278-9318-12BF99C69144@cantab.net> Message-ID: Very well said, and quite frankly, spoken like someone with pretty good odds . . . On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 4:09 PM Martin Packer wrote: > Anthony, > > Your question happens to coincide with some ongoing reflections on my > part, and my conclusion has been that prediction here is not easy. > > 1. the pandemic is a black swan: an unlikely event with large > consequences. These are by nature difficult to predict and so when they > occur their consequences are also hard to anticipate. > > 2. the lack of adequate planning means that achieving desired outcomes is > uncertain > > 3. outcomes will depend on human decisions and choices, which themselves > are notoriously hard to predict > > 4. outcomes also depend on scientific and technological advances whose > character and timing cannot be known in advance > > But Tetlock?s chimps may know more than I do. > > cheers > > Martin > > > > > On Apr 24, 2020, at 2:54 PM, Anthony Barra > wrote: > > "Another chance to discover: do i know as much as i thought about the > world, including covid19? Sign up by 5pm ET, 4/27 for a forecasting > tournament to compete against soft benchmarks (chimps) & tough ones > (superforecasters)" - Phil Tetlock (superforecaster) > > As a casual reader of this listserv, I can only conclude: Somebody from > this group is gonna win, aren't they? (*I'm a very good predictor by the > way . . . ) > > "EXPERIENCE OUR COVID-19 FORECASTING STUDY" > > Curious about how you size up against world-class problem-solvers and > forecasters ? and about how much better your can get? > > Please join our coronavirus forecasting tournament that will let you > compare your performance against a range of benchmarks, from dart-tossing > chimps to seasoned professionals and Superforecasters." > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.gjp2.org/upenn__;!!Mih3wA!RlW0tkuTB4qPSF1dIL8xcKOvzwUeY2vkwTWZzbXzwPuZaM5pJeBBiMbIon4p8JPCQNV7Pw$ > > > > ---> How much fun does this sound! <--- > > The mix of intelligence, confidence, certainty, and humility that is > regularly on display here tells me: somebody from this group is gonna win; > the odds are against it being me, but someone here can do it. > > Tell me I'm wrong . . . > > Or, tell me . . . who in this group would you say has a great shot at > winning (and therefore should enter!) > > ??? > > Anthony > > *good stuff from your friend Andy and others here: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/33rpnz__;!!Mih3wA!RlW0tkuTB4qPSF1dIL8xcKOvzwUeY2vkwTWZzbXzwPuZaM5pJeBBiMbIon4p8JNOpB_oaA$ > > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200424/7dfb8065/attachment.html From andyb@marxists.org Fri Apr 24 17:46:34 2020 From: andyb@marxists.org (Andy Blunden) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2020 10:46:34 +1000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: COVID-19 Forecasting Tournament In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <565b0625-4d9e-def9-9430-7e0f65371c66@marxists.org> Anthony, I have read Phil Tetlock's book and found it very interesting. I had already gathered that you had read and liked the book as well. There is a lot to be said for the kind of discipline Tetlock suggests. I don't have the book in front of me at the moment, but I seem to recall (perhaps you can verify this) that in the last chapter or two he says that there are transformative events which are essentially unpredictable in both their occurrence and their catharsis. The COVID pandemic one of these - a lot of people were saying over the past few years that the world was "due" another serious pandemic and that we were unprepared, but no-one can claim to have predicted this pandemic, let alone its final outcome a decade from now. Just as almost no-one predicted the collapse of the USSR or the outbreak of WW1. /Perezhivanie /are essentially unpredictable experiences of this type. Which is why I have been relatively restrained in making predictions about where it will go. I don't even try to predict that it will be cured by the use of malaria drugs. Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ *Andy Blunden* Hegel for Social Movements Home Page On 25/04/2020 5:54 am, Anthony Barra wrote: > "Another chance to discover: do i know as much as i > thought about the world, including covid19? Sign up by 5pm > ET, 4/27 for a forecasting tournament to compete against > soft benchmarks (chimps) & tough ones (superforecasters)" > - Phil Tetlock (superforecaster) > > As a casual reader of this listserv, I can only conclude: > Somebody from this group is gonna win, aren't they?? (*I'm > a very good predictor?by the way . . . ) > > "EXPERIENCE OUR COVID-19 FORECASTING STUDY" > > Curious about how you size up against world-class > problem-solvers and forecasters ? and about how much > better your can get? > > Please join our coronavirus forecasting tournament that > will let you compare your performance against a range of > benchmarks, from dart-tossing chimps to seasoned > professionals and Superforecasters." > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.gjp2.org/upenn__;!!Mih3wA!Q7jv7wgSUDQ3HL4BeRICk5ZLycnt_x0TlHSIPRtKWlGxNhTNBpkksqwkkQnZgMj-MhEgVA$ > > > > ---> How much fun does this sound! <--- > > The mix of intelligence, confidence, certainty, and > humility that is regularly on display here tells me: > somebody from this group is gonna win; the odds are > against it being me, but someone here can do it. > > Tell me I'm wrong . . . > > Or, tell me . . . who in this group would you say has a > great shot at winning (and therefore should enter!) > > ??? > > Anthony > > *good stuff from your friend Andy and others here: > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/33rpnz__;!!Mih3wA!Q7jv7wgSUDQ3HL4BeRICk5ZLycnt_x0TlHSIPRtKWlGxNhTNBpkksqwkkQnZgMgDJUuTXg$ > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200425/faf50603/attachment.html From andyb@marxists.org Fri Apr 24 18:05:41 2020 From: andyb@marxists.org (Andy Blunden) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2020 11:05:41 +1000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7f661750-350f-9e76-d6b3-1598132af583@marxists.org> Greg, the word is polysemic, as Mike said, but I agree with Michael that /perezhivaniya/ are essentially collective experiences. As I say in the article, that COVID will be experienced differently in different countries, by different classes and social groups is an important part of this process. It does not detract it from its being a single experience. Huw, a "world subject" is emergent at this moment. It is implicit or "in-itself" but I look forward to the appearance of such a world subject, though who know how long and through what traumas we will pass before it is an actuality. Like WW2, the COVID pandemic part of its birth process. * https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/seminars/perezhivanie.htm__;!!Mih3wA!S8ALk6GlG2xHhKD5PZffsZwZSDgRm3dCjkxcBsYpsG0QakxKLngh6lBP1DDCY0iFFi2kTw$ , Notes, links, excerpts, 2009 * https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Blunden_article*response.pdf__;Kw!!Mih3wA!S8ALk6GlG2xHhKD5PZffsZwZSDgRm3dCjkxcBsYpsG0QakxKLngh6lBP1DDCY0jGnjh6xA$ , MCA article 2016 * https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Coronavirus-pandemic.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!S8ALk6GlG2xHhKD5PZffsZwZSDgRm3dCjkxcBsYpsG0QakxKLngh6lBP1DDCY0iFrpl65A$ Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ *Andy Blunden* Hegel for Social Movements Home Page On 25/04/2020 4:01 am, Greg Thompson wrote: > I'm wondering about Andy's suggestion that covid-19 is a > (or maybe "is creating a"?) world perezhivanie. That seems > a really rich suggestion but I'm not sure how many of us > on the list really understand what he means by this. > > Andy tends to just tell me to go read more and so I'm > wondering if someone else might be willing to take a stab > at explaining what he might mean. > > Also, as a critical intervention, I am wondering whether > covid-19 is the "same" for everyone. We have folks in the > U.S. who think it is basically just a typical flu that has > been turned into a political tool to attack the current > president. Or does that not matter for perezhivanie? > > (and just to be clear, my question is not whether or not > this is true or right or beautiful to think this way; my > question is whether or not this is how people are actually > experiencing the world since I assume that this is what > perezhivanie is supposed to be "getting at". Or am I > misunderstanding perezhivanie?) > > So is there really a shared perezhivanie here? > (Is The Problem of Age the place to look for answers?) > > But if no one wants to take this up (perhaps too much ink > has been spilt over perezhivanie?), that's fine too. > > Cheers, > greg > > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!S8ALk6GlG2xHhKD5PZffsZwZSDgRm3dCjkxcBsYpsG0QakxKLngh6lBP1DDCY0iGGoZ9ng$ > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!S8ALk6GlG2xHhKD5PZffsZwZSDgRm3dCjkxcBsYpsG0QakxKLngh6lBP1DDCY0g8pLnGJA$ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200425/d51ce2e4/attachment.html From julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk Fri Apr 24 23:43:59 2020 From: julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk (Julian Williams) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2020 06:43:59 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? In-Reply-To: <7f661750-350f-9e76-d6b3-1598132af583@marxists.org> References: <7f661750-350f-9e76-d6b3-1598132af583@marxists.org> Message-ID: <1056380D-069C-40AE-934F-EA2A1212ACDB@manchester.ac.uk> Andy/Greg Each nation state appears to be ?playing? the pandemic in different ways (eg China, Italy, Australia, NZ, Sweden, UK, USA,? check out attached report which comes from https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://pandemic.internationalsos.com/2019-ncov__;!!Mih3wA!WPEOjoRcy7-0XGXGM7QSrXXC27_A4xJId659fiG4khvEeZtv3X_8vk3uo8LvLBuG_SQkBg$ I get one of these reports every few days) while sometimes looking to other countries to see how their numbers are growing/falling (and mostly making a damn poor job of it). Before this all got going, the scientists already had a pretty good idea how a pandemic works, and even what needed to be done to prepare for it: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/revealed-uk-ministers-were-warned-last-year-of-risks-of-coronavirus-pandemic__;!!Mih3wA!WPEOjoRcy7-0XGXGM7QSrXXC27_A4xJId659fiG4khvEeZtv3X_8vk3uo8LvLBuWZeIjdw$ And now we know a bit more than we did then. There is a prediction/warning there about a number of pandemic waves? In the second ?wave?, we ? the world subject-in-formation may have learnt more, maybe there will be fewer deaths? Maybe we will rescue WHO, maybe not (I won?t predict). But maybe the science community will be paying serious attention, and especially to its duty to the ?public good?. But there are some contradictory signs. In my own university we seem to be about to enter a new austerity, (implemented from the top by a failing leadership, led by a true academic, bio scientist no less!) What is clear is that the ?public? and its social movements are key to forcing each government to act, and that in almost all cases our leaders and rulers have followed along reluctantly ? even while the science and the pandemic plan was there. In the third and subsequent waves? I agree it?s not predictable: the outcomes will depend entirely on all of ?us?. And in the next ?big one?, the climate collapse? Maybe all this pandemic ?play? will have helped prepare us, we maybe will learn how to build the institutions, policies etc for the world?s ?public good? in time. I still have hope. I use Vygotsky-Leontiev?s idea of ?play? as the leading activity of the pre-schooler, as I find it complements the notion of world perezhivanie ? yes, we are experiencing trauma and that drives activity to overcome, etc, but also in this play we are acting, reflecting, and always ? above all - imagining and re-imagining (modelling etc) our world future. Julian From: on behalf of Andy Blunden Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Date: Saturday, 25 April 2020 at 02:08 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? Greg, the word is polysemic, as Mike said, but I agree with Michael that perezhivaniya are essentially collective experiences. As I say in the article, that COVID will be experienced differently in different countries, by different classes and social groups is an important part of this process. It does not detract it from its being a single experience. Huw, a "world subject" is emergent at this moment. It is implicit or "in-itself" but I look forward to the appearance of such a world subject, though who know how long and through what traumas we will pass before it is an actuality. Like WW2, the COVID pandemic part of its birth process. * https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/seminars/perezhivanie.htm__;!!Mih3wA!WPEOjoRcy7-0XGXGM7QSrXXC27_A4xJId659fiG4khvEeZtv3X_8vk3uo8LvLBt8tzuyoQ$ , Notes, links, excerpts, 2009 * https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Blunden_article*response.pdf__;Kw!!Mih3wA!WPEOjoRcy7-0XGXGM7QSrXXC27_A4xJId659fiG4khvEeZtv3X_8vk3uo8LvLBvQlcQEFA$ , MCA article 2016 * https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Coronavirus-pandemic.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!WPEOjoRcy7-0XGXGM7QSrXXC27_A4xJId659fiG4khvEeZtv3X_8vk3uo8LvLBszV67EqA$ Andy ________________________________ Andy Blunden Hegel for Social Movements Home Page On 25/04/2020 4:01 am, Greg Thompson wrote: I'm wondering about Andy's suggestion that covid-19 is a (or maybe "is creating a"?) world perezhivanie. That seems a really rich suggestion but I'm not sure how many of us on the list really understand what he means by this. Andy tends to just tell me to go read more and so I'm wondering if someone else might be willing to take a stab at explaining what he might mean. Also, as a critical intervention, I am wondering whether covid-19 is the "same" for everyone. We have folks in the U.S. who think it is basically just a typical flu that has been turned into a political tool to attack the current president. Or does that not matter for perezhivanie? (and just to be clear, my question is not whether or not this is true or right or beautiful to think this way; my question is whether or not this is how people are actually experiencing the world since I assume that this is what perezhivanie is supposed to be "getting at". Or am I misunderstanding perezhivanie?) So is there really a shared perezhivanie here? (Is The Problem of Age the place to look for answers?) But if no one wants to take this up (perhaps too much ink has been spilt over perezhivanie?), that's fine too. Cheers, greg -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!WPEOjoRcy7-0XGXGM7QSrXXC27_A4xJId659fiG4khvEeZtv3X_8vk3uo8LvLBtFYXEPuw$ https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!WPEOjoRcy7-0XGXGM7QSrXXC27_A4xJId659fiG4khvEeZtv3X_8vk3uo8LvLBtcPd5WnQ$ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200425/519d630a/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Executive Summary 15 APRIL 2020 FINAL[1].docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 2677736 bytes Desc: Executive Summary 15 APRIL 2020 FINAL[1].docx Url : http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200425/519d630a/attachment-0001.bin From jamesma320@gmail.com Sat Apr 25 01:28:10 2020 From: jamesma320@gmail.com (James Ma) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2020 09:28:10 +0100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Social distancing = ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Social distancing is a norm in the current pandemic crisis. More to the point, I think it is already a semiosis produced and reproduced as a signifying practice in which culture is inscribed as something local or individual. James *__________________________________________________* *James Ma Independent Scholar https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://oxford.academia.edu/JamesMa__;!!Mih3wA!V4I8msvit6xIkWkzF51Yf_mWHu8ovN90l0mCWUo6BXAYL2MtUX0IfUNnKWskDlwT9hwCYw$ * On Fri, 24 Apr 2020 at 22:03, Ulvi ??il wrote: > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200425/f2fe67bd/attachment.html From ulvi.icil@gmail.com Sat Apr 25 05:17:21 2020 From: ulvi.icil@gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?VWx2aSDEsMOnaWw=?=) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2020 15:17:21 +0300 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Social distancing = ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I can prefer to add such a meaning to "social distancing" as in the photo for the working-class adding also to it "political" and "to capitalist class". "Social and political distancing to capitalist class". In this sense, yes, we can admit rather than reject "social distancing = communism". On Sat, 25 Apr 2020 at 11:31, James Ma wrote: > Social distancing is a norm in the current pandemic crisis. More to the > point, I think it is already a semiosis produced and reproduced as a > signifying practice in which culture is inscribed as something local or > individual. > James > > > *__________________________________________________* > > *James Ma Independent Scholar https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://oxford.academia.edu/JamesMa__;!!Mih3wA!W3bIaBxjzWZSTDBwR7ESqJUwLdVCFpApw6Kilje0pbuEX3KZpEjtWk2RokydoZTMf-5cpg$ > * > > > On Fri, 24 Apr 2020 at 22:03, Ulvi ??il wrote: > >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200425/4044d112/attachment.html From mpacker@cantab.net Sat Apr 25 05:41:55 2020 From: mpacker@cantab.net (Martin Packer) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2020 07:41:55 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? In-Reply-To: <1056380D-069C-40AE-934F-EA2A1212ACDB@manchester.ac.uk> References: <7f661750-350f-9e76-d6b3-1598132af583@marxists.org> <1056380D-069C-40AE-934F-EA2A1212ACDB@manchester.ac.uk> Message-ID: <0E64BF76-A158-453E-B233-64D5E00625FA@cantab.net> Julian, If no efforts are made to contain a virus it will move through a population in a single wave, infecting many people and then disappearing as no more potential hosts are available. If efforts to contain it ? lockdown ? are adequate there will be a single much smaller wave, followed again by elimination as hosts are not available. If containment is not effective ? if people don?t isolate sufficiently ? there may be a second wave when the containment is reduced. Or the first wave may not be controlled. As you say, each country is responding differently. Australia seems close to eliminating the virus after a single wave. The US and UK are somewhere between starting a second wave and still being in a poorly controlled first wave. Colombia seems to be still moving up its first wave. The behavior of a virus can be modeled, but only on the basis of assumptions about how people are going to behave. Since we cannot predict this behavior, we cannot even predict how the virus will or will not spread, let alone the political, economic and social consequences. To say this is not to be pessimistic; pessimism would be predicting a dire outcome. Rather, it highlights that the outcome lies in all our hands. Martin > On Apr 25, 2020, at 1:43 AM, Julian Williams wrote: > > Andy/Greg > > Each nation state appears to be ?playing? the pandemic in different ways (eg China, Italy, Australia, NZ, Sweden, UK, USA,? check out attached report which comes from https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://pandemic.internationalsos.com/2019-ncov__;!!Mih3wA!RUyokz-hTMeMlWrRc3VnI7Fnp46_W9X2tu7C7EVIqxrETfvavM1K4RV1lZDiL8orew_hpA$ I get one of these reports every few days) while sometimes looking to other countries to see how their numbers are growing/falling (and mostly making a damn poor job of it). > > Before this all got going, the scientists already had a pretty good idea how a pandemic works, and even what needed to be done to prepare for it: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/revealed-uk-ministers-were-warned-last-year-of-risks-of-coronavirus-pandemic__;!!Mih3wA!RUyokz-hTMeMlWrRc3VnI7Fnp46_W9X2tu7C7EVIqxrETfvavM1K4RV1lZDiL8oYcfHdMg$ > And now we know a bit more than we did then. > > There is a prediction/warning there about a number of pandemic waves? > > In the second ?wave?, we ? the world subject-in-formation may have learnt more, maybe there will be fewer deaths? Maybe we will rescue WHO, maybe not (I won?t predict). But maybe the science community will be paying serious attention, and especially to its duty to the ?public good?. But there are some contradictory signs. In my own university we seem to be about to enter a new austerity, (implemented from the top by a failing leadership, led by a true academic, bio scientist no less!) > > What is clear is that the ?public? and its social movements are key to forcing each government to act, and that in almost all cases our leaders and rulers have followed along reluctantly ? even while the science and the pandemic plan was there. > > In the third and subsequent waves? I agree it?s not predictable: the outcomes will depend entirely on all of ?us?. > > And in the next ?big one?, the climate collapse? Maybe all this pandemic ?play? will have helped prepare us, we maybe will learn how to build the institutions, policies etc for the world?s ?public good? in time. I still have hope. > > I use Vygotsky-Leontiev?s idea of ?play? as the leading activity of the pre-schooler, as I find it complements the notion of world perezhivanie ? yes, we are experiencing trauma and that drives activity to overcome, etc, but also in this play we are acting, reflecting, and always ? above all - imagining and re-imagining (modelling etc) our world future. > > Julian > > > > From: > on behalf of Andy Blunden > > Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > > Date: Saturday, 25 April 2020 at 02:08 > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? > > Greg, the word is polysemic, as Mike said, but I agree with Michael that perezhivaniya are essentially collective experiences. As I say in the article, that COVID will be experienced differently in different countries, by different classes and social groups is an important part of this process. It does not detract it from its being a single experience. > Huw, a "world subject" is emergent at this moment. It is implicit or "in-itself" but I look forward to the appearance of such a world subject, though who know how long and through what traumas we will pass before it is an actuality. Like WW2, the COVID pandemic part of its birth process. > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/seminars/perezhivanie.htm__;!!Mih3wA!RUyokz-hTMeMlWrRc3VnI7Fnp46_W9X2tu7C7EVIqxrETfvavM1K4RV1lZDiL8plV3q-eg$ , Notes, links, excerpts, 2009 > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Blunden_article*response.pdf__;Kw!!Mih3wA!RUyokz-hTMeMlWrRc3VnI7Fnp46_W9X2tu7C7EVIqxrETfvavM1K4RV1lZDiL8qbkHX4Bw$ , MCA article 2016 > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Coronavirus-pandemic.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!RUyokz-hTMeMlWrRc3VnI7Fnp46_W9X2tu7C7EVIqxrETfvavM1K4RV1lZDiL8rxLic2Vg$ > Andy > > Andy Blunden > Hegel for Social Movements > Home Page > On 25/04/2020 4:01 am, Greg Thompson wrote: >> I'm wondering about Andy's suggestion that covid-19 is a (or maybe "is creating a"?) world perezhivanie. That seems a really rich suggestion but I'm not sure how many of us on the list really understand what he means by this. >> >> Andy tends to just tell me to go read more and so I'm wondering if someone else might be willing to take a stab at explaining what he might mean. >> >> Also, as a critical intervention, I am wondering whether covid-19 is the "same" for everyone. We have folks in the U.S. who think it is basically just a typical flu that has been turned into a political tool to attack the current president. Or does that not matter for perezhivanie? >> >> (and just to be clear, my question is not whether or not this is true or right or beautiful to think this way; my question is whether or not this is how people are actually experiencing the world since I assume that this is what perezhivanie is supposed to be "getting at". Or am I misunderstanding perezhivanie?) >> >> So is there really a shared perezhivanie here? >> (Is The Problem of Age the place to look for answers?) >> >> But if no one wants to take this up (perhaps too much ink has been spilt over perezhivanie?), that's fine too. >> >> Cheers, >> greg >> >> >> -- >> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >> Assistant Professor >> Department of Anthropology >> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >> Brigham Young University >> Provo, UT 84602 >> WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!RUyokz-hTMeMlWrRc3VnI7Fnp46_W9X2tu7C7EVIqxrETfvavM1K4RV1lZDiL8pm4qc1nA$ >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!RUyokz-hTMeMlWrRc3VnI7Fnp46_W9X2tu7C7EVIqxrETfvavM1K4RV1lZDiL8oN-OS_nQ$ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200425/a54062fe/attachment.html From ulvi.icil@gmail.com Sat Apr 25 06:08:18 2020 From: ulvi.icil@gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?VWx2aSDEsMOnaWw=?=) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2020 16:08:18 +0300 Subject: [Xmca-l] Valientes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200425/40ef5682/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG-20200425-WA0032.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 106277 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200425/40ef5682/attachment.jpg From dkirsh@lsu.edu Sat Apr 25 08:46:53 2020 From: dkirsh@lsu.edu (David H Kirshner) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2020 15:46:53 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? In-Reply-To: <0E64BF76-A158-453E-B233-64D5E00625FA@cantab.net> References: <7f661750-350f-9e76-d6b3-1598132af583@marxists.org> <1056380D-069C-40AE-934F-EA2A1212ACDB@manchester.ac.uk> <0E64BF76-A158-453E-B233-64D5E00625FA@cantab.net> Message-ID: Martin, The scenario you sketched out is what I?d thought would/could happen, but the epidemiologists don?t ever talk about eradicating the virus, they just talk about slowing the spread so as not to overwhelm health care facilities. Eventually, everyone who can get it will get it. So a generation of older and weaker people will be adversely affected, many dying. It?s only in the next generation when most people have gotten it young that it will fade into the background, like the common cold. David From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu On Behalf Of Martin Packer Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 7:42 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? Julian, If no efforts are made to contain a virus it will move through a population in a single wave, infecting many people and then disappearing as no more potential hosts are available. If efforts to contain it ? lockdown ? are adequate there will be a single much smaller wave, followed again by elimination as hosts are not available. If containment is not effective ? if people don?t isolate sufficiently ? there may be a second wave when the containment is reduced. Or the first wave may not be controlled. As you say, each country is responding differently. Australia seems close to eliminating the virus after a single wave. The US and UK are somewhere between starting a second wave and still being in a poorly controlled first wave. Colombia seems to be still moving up its first wave. The behavior of a virus can be modeled, but only on the basis of assumptions about how people are going to behave. Since we cannot predict this behavior, we cannot even predict how the virus will or will not spread, let alone the political, economic and social consequences. To say this is not to be pessimistic; pessimism would be predicting a dire outcome. Rather, it highlights that the outcome lies in all our hands. Martin On Apr 25, 2020, at 1:43 AM, Julian Williams > wrote: Andy/Greg Each nation state appears to be ?playing? the pandemic in different ways (eg China, Italy, Australia, NZ, Sweden, UK, USA,? check out attached report which comes from https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://pandemic.internationalsos.com/2019-ncov__;!!Mih3wA!VMC7Q42-ZCLzlrlcxDalTU1dfGjI2uL5la5B1b-uJBs0lJmYIEwYo2Mjvs8OHpVLLNGfLA$ I get one of these reports every few days) while sometimes looking to other countries to see how their numbers are growing/falling (and mostly making a damn poor job of it). Before this all got going, the scientists already had a pretty good idea how a pandemic works, and even what needed to be done to prepare for it: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/revealed-uk-ministers-were-warned-last-year-of-risks-of-coronavirus-pandemic__;!!Mih3wA!VMC7Q42-ZCLzlrlcxDalTU1dfGjI2uL5la5B1b-uJBs0lJmYIEwYo2Mjvs8OHpXrszk9ww$ And now we know a bit more than we did then. There is a prediction/warning there about a number of pandemic waves? In the second ?wave?, we ? the world subject-in-formation may have learnt more, maybe there will be fewer deaths? Maybe we will rescue WHO, maybe not (I won?t predict). But maybe the science community will be paying serious attention, and especially to its duty to the ?public good?. But there are some contradictory signs. In my own university we seem to be about to enter a new austerity, (implemented from the top by a failing leadership, led by a true academic, bio scientist no less!) What is clear is that the ?public? and its social movements are key to forcing each government to act, and that in almost all cases our leaders and rulers have followed along reluctantly ? even while the science and the pandemic plan was there. In the third and subsequent waves? I agree it?s not predictable: the outcomes will depend entirely on all of ?us?. And in the next ?big one?, the climate collapse? Maybe all this pandemic ?play? will have helped prepare us, we maybe will learn how to build the institutions, policies etc for the world?s ?public good? in time. I still have hope. I use Vygotsky-Leontiev?s idea of ?play? as the leading activity of the pre-schooler, as I find it complements the notion of world perezhivanie ? yes, we are experiencing trauma and that drives activity to overcome, etc, but also in this play we are acting, reflecting, and always ? above all - imagining and re-imagining (modelling etc) our world future. Julian From: > on behalf of Andy Blunden > Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Date: Saturday, 25 April 2020 at 02:08 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? Greg, the word is polysemic, as Mike said, but I agree with Michael that perezhivaniya are essentially collective experiences. As I say in the article, that COVID will be experienced differently in different countries, by different classes and social groups is an important part of this process. It does not detract it from its being a single experience. Huw, a "world subject" is emergent at this moment. It is implicit or "in-itself" but I look forward to the appearance of such a world subject, though who know how long and through what traumas we will pass before it is an actuality. Like WW2, the COVID pandemic part of its birth process. * https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/seminars/perezhivanie.htm__;!!Mih3wA!VMC7Q42-ZCLzlrlcxDalTU1dfGjI2uL5la5B1b-uJBs0lJmYIEwYo2Mjvs8OHpWvuoBo5A$ , Notes, links, excerpts, 2009 * https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Blunden_article*response.pdf__;Kw!!Mih3wA!VMC7Q42-ZCLzlrlcxDalTU1dfGjI2uL5la5B1b-uJBs0lJmYIEwYo2Mjvs8OHpXB9nzWgQ$ , MCA article 2016 * https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Coronavirus-pandemic.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!VMC7Q42-ZCLzlrlcxDalTU1dfGjI2uL5la5B1b-uJBs0lJmYIEwYo2Mjvs8OHpWKCyNA9A$ Andy ________________________________ Andy Blunden Hegel for Social Movements Home Page On 25/04/2020 4:01 am, Greg Thompson wrote: I'm wondering about Andy's suggestion that covid-19 is a (or maybe "is creating a"?) world perezhivanie. That seems a really rich suggestion but I'm not sure how many of us on the list really understand what he means by this. Andy tends to just tell me to go read more and so I'm wondering if someone else might be willing to take a stab at explaining what he might mean. Also, as a critical intervention, I am wondering whether covid-19 is the "same" for everyone. We have folks in the U.S. who think it is basically just a typical flu that has been turned into a political tool to attack the current president. Or does that not matter for perezhivanie? (and just to be clear, my question is not whether or not this is true or right or beautiful to think this way; my question is whether or not this is how people are actually experiencing the world since I assume that this is what perezhivanie is supposed to be "getting at". Or am I misunderstanding perezhivanie?) So is there really a shared perezhivanie here? (Is The Problem of Age the place to look for answers?) But if no one wants to take this up (perhaps too much ink has been spilt over perezhivanie?), that's fine too. Cheers, greg -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!VMC7Q42-ZCLzlrlcxDalTU1dfGjI2uL5la5B1b-uJBs0lJmYIEwYo2Mjvs8OHpWe9IAncw$ https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!VMC7Q42-ZCLzlrlcxDalTU1dfGjI2uL5la5B1b-uJBs0lJmYIEwYo2Mjvs8OHpUoO17qzw$ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200425/25933d9f/attachment.html From mpacker@cantab.net Sat Apr 25 09:14:09 2020 From: mpacker@cantab.net (Martin Packer) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2020 11:14:09 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? In-Reply-To: References: <7f661750-350f-9e76-d6b3-1598132af583@marxists.org> <1056380D-069C-40AE-934F-EA2A1212ACDB@manchester.ac.uk> <0E64BF76-A158-453E-B233-64D5E00625FA@cantab.net> Message-ID: <8DD6C766-811B-4B08-8B10-6ECA676FAA50@cantab.net> David, There is talk about the possible eradication of the virus in Australia and New Zealand, from what I have read. Eradication is difficult when no one has resistance, but not impossible. Other virus infections have been eradicated, as far as one can tell, such as smallpox. In Wuhan, where the infections started, which is a city of around 11 million people, less that 70,000 cases were reported. Even if that is vastly underreported by a factor of 10 it is less than 10%. And studies in California suggest that only 1 in 5 have been infected, of whom 60% have not experienced any symptoms. Only around 5% need hospitalization. Martin > On Apr 25, 2020, at 10:46 AM, David H Kirshner wrote: > > Martin, > The scenario you sketched out is what I?d thought would/could happen, but the epidemiologists don?t ever talk about eradicating the virus, they just talk about slowing the spread so as not to overwhelm health care facilities. Eventually, everyone who can get it will get it. So a generation of older and weaker people will be adversely affected, many dying. It?s only in the next generation when most people have gotten it young that it will fade into the background, like the common cold. > David > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu On Behalf Of Martin Packer > Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 7:42 AM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? > > Julian, > > If no efforts are made to contain a virus it will move through a population in a single wave, infecting many people and then disappearing as no more potential hosts are available. > > If efforts to contain it ? lockdown ? are adequate there will be a single much smaller wave, followed again by elimination as hosts are not available. > > If containment is not effective ? if people don?t isolate sufficiently ? there may be a second wave when the containment is reduced. Or the first wave may not be controlled. > > As you say, each country is responding differently. Australia seems close to eliminating the virus after a single wave. The US and UK are somewhere between starting a second wave and still being in a poorly controlled first wave. Colombia seems to be still moving up its first wave. > > The behavior of a virus can be modeled, but only on the basis of assumptions about how people are going to behave. Since we cannot predict this behavior, we cannot even predict how the virus will or will not spread, let alone the political, economic and social consequences. > > To say this is not to be pessimistic; pessimism would be predicting a dire outcome. Rather, it highlights that the outcome lies in all our hands. > > Martin > > > > > On Apr 25, 2020, at 1:43 AM, Julian Williams > wrote: > > Andy/Greg > > Each nation state appears to be ?playing? the pandemic in different ways (eg China, Italy, Australia, NZ, Sweden, UK, USA,? check out attached report which comes from https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://pandemic.internationalsos.com/2019-ncov__;!!Mih3wA!VwBsj00MBi6ONGWDCcyeSQZliSKY_2S7PNTX-m0RU_-7tWJ9eneRQ6BIQG50Of8ekLqC7Q$ I get one of these reports every few days) while sometimes looking to other countries to see how their numbers are growing/falling (and mostly making a damn poor job of it). > > Before this all got going, the scientists already had a pretty good idea how a pandemic works, and even what needed to be done to prepare for it: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/revealed-uk-ministers-were-warned-last-year-of-risks-of-coronavirus-pandemic__;!!Mih3wA!VwBsj00MBi6ONGWDCcyeSQZliSKY_2S7PNTX-m0RU_-7tWJ9eneRQ6BIQG50Of_Wv0wtdA$ > And now we know a bit more than we did then. > > There is a prediction/warning there about a number of pandemic waves? > > In the second ?wave?, we ? the world subject-in-formation may have learnt more, maybe there will be fewer deaths? Maybe we will rescue WHO, maybe not (I won?t predict). But maybe the science community will be paying serious attention, and especially to its duty to the ?public good?. But there are some contradictory signs. In my own university we seem to be about to enter a new austerity, (implemented from the top by a failing leadership, led by a true academic, bio scientist no less!) > > What is clear is that the ?public? and its social movements are key to forcing each government to act, and that in almost all cases our leaders and rulers have followed along reluctantly ? even while the science and the pandemic plan was there. > > In the third and subsequent waves? I agree it?s not predictable: the outcomes will depend entirely on all of ?us?. > > And in the next ?big one?, the climate collapse? Maybe all this pandemic ?play? will have helped prepare us, we maybe will learn how to build the institutions, policies etc for the world?s ?public good? in time. I still have hope. > > I use Vygotsky-Leontiev?s idea of ?play? as the leading activity of the pre-schooler, as I find it complements the notion of world perezhivanie ? yes, we are experiencing trauma and that drives activity to overcome, etc, but also in this play we are acting, reflecting, and always ? above all - imagining and re-imagining (modelling etc) our world future. > > Julian > > > > From: > on behalf of Andy Blunden > > Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > > Date: Saturday, 25 April 2020 at 02:08 > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? > > Greg, the word is polysemic, as Mike said, but I agree with Michael that perezhivaniya are essentially collective experiences. As I say in the article, that COVID will be experienced differently in different countries, by different classes and social groups is an important part of this process. It does not detract it from its being a single experience. > Huw, a "world subject" is emergent at this moment. It is implicit or "in-itself" but I look forward to the appearance of such a world subject, though who know how long and through what traumas we will pass before it is an actuality. Like WW2, the COVID pandemic part of its birth process. > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/seminars/perezhivanie.htm__;!!Mih3wA!VwBsj00MBi6ONGWDCcyeSQZliSKY_2S7PNTX-m0RU_-7tWJ9eneRQ6BIQG50Of_LPnWbQw$ , Notes, links, excerpts, 2009 > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Blunden_article*response.pdf__;Kw!!Mih3wA!VwBsj00MBi6ONGWDCcyeSQZliSKY_2S7PNTX-m0RU_-7tWJ9eneRQ6BIQG50Of8RZOrIAQ$ , MCA article 2016 > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Coronavirus-pandemic.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!VwBsj00MBi6ONGWDCcyeSQZliSKY_2S7PNTX-m0RU_-7tWJ9eneRQ6BIQG50Of-wAQG8bw$ > Andy > > Andy Blunden > Hegel for Social Movements > Home Page > On 25/04/2020 4:01 am, Greg Thompson wrote: > I'm wondering about Andy's suggestion that covid-19 is a (or maybe "is creating a"?) world perezhivanie. That seems a really rich suggestion but I'm not sure how many of us on the list really understand what he means by this. > > Andy tends to just tell me to go read more and so I'm wondering if someone else might be willing to take a stab at explaining what he might mean. > > Also, as a critical intervention, I am wondering whether covid-19 is the "same" for everyone. We have folks in the U.S. who think it is basically just a typical flu that has been turned into a political tool to attack the current president. Or does that not matter for perezhivanie? > > (and just to be clear, my question is not whether or not this is true or right or beautiful to think this way; my question is whether or not this is how people are actually experiencing the world since I assume that this is what perezhivanie is supposed to be "getting at". Or am I misunderstanding perezhivanie?) > > So is there really a shared perezhivanie here? > (Is The Problem of Age the place to look for answers?) > > But if no one wants to take this up (perhaps too much ink has been spilt over perezhivanie?), that's fine too. > > Cheers, > greg > > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!VwBsj00MBi6ONGWDCcyeSQZliSKY_2S7PNTX-m0RU_-7tWJ9eneRQ6BIQG50Of-itJGLcg$ > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!VwBsj00MBi6ONGWDCcyeSQZliSKY_2S7PNTX-m0RU_-7tWJ9eneRQ6BIQG50Of9WPL2R7g$ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200425/fb817e42/attachment.html From dkirsh@lsu.edu Sat Apr 25 09:49:12 2020 From: dkirsh@lsu.edu (David H Kirshner) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2020 16:49:12 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? In-Reply-To: <8DD6C766-811B-4B08-8B10-6ECA676FAA50@cantab.net> References: <7f661750-350f-9e76-d6b3-1598132af583@marxists.org> <1056380D-069C-40AE-934F-EA2A1212ACDB@manchester.ac.uk> <0E64BF76-A158-453E-B233-64D5E00625FA@cantab.net> <8DD6C766-811B-4B08-8B10-6ECA676FAA50@cantab.net> Message-ID: It is possible that the virus is eradicated, like SARS was, but that?s increasingly unlikely. More likely is that ?2019-nCoV joins the four coronaviruses now circulating in people. ?I can imagine a scenario where this becomes a fifth endemic human coronavirus,? said Stephen Morse of Columbia University?s Mailman School of Public Health, an epidemiologist and expert on emerging infectious diseases.? https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.statnews.com/2020/02/04/two-scenarios-if-new-coronavirus-isnt-contained/__;!!Mih3wA!SX1Hl8tULKtmBc-b4OAK8JiKXhGwK23CH06GiNPrkjE3pM2BVcdGD6QRm6nL_fqEayWDJQ$ The fact that such a large proportion of people who contract the virus are asymptomatic make this one very hard to contain. Of course, the possibility of a vaccine would greatly reduce its human toll. David From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu On Behalf Of Martin Packer Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 11:14 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? David, There is talk about the possible eradication of the virus in Australia and New Zealand, from what I have read. Eradication is difficult when no one has resistance, but not impossible. Other virus infections have been eradicated, as far as one can tell, such as smallpox. In Wuhan, where the infections started, which is a city of around 11 million people, less that 70,000 cases were reported. Even if that is vastly underreported by a factor of 10 it is less than 10%. And studies in California suggest that only 1 in 5 have been infected, of whom 60% have not experienced any symptoms. Only around 5% need hospitalization. Martin On Apr 25, 2020, at 10:46 AM, David H Kirshner > wrote: Martin, The scenario you sketched out is what I?d thought would/could happen, but the epidemiologists don?t ever talk about eradicating the virus, they just talk about slowing the spread so as not to overwhelm health care facilities. Eventually, everyone who can get it will get it. So a generation of older and weaker people will be adversely affected, many dying. It?s only in the next generation when most people have gotten it young that it will fade into the background, like the common cold. David From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > On Behalf Of Martin Packer Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 7:42 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? Julian, If no efforts are made to contain a virus it will move through a population in a single wave, infecting many people and then disappearing as no more potential hosts are available. If efforts to contain it ? lockdown ? are adequate there will be a single much smaller wave, followed again by elimination as hosts are not available. If containment is not effective ? if people don?t isolate sufficiently ? there may be a second wave when the containment is reduced. Or the first wave may not be controlled. As you say, each country is responding differently. Australia seems close to eliminating the virus after a single wave. The US and UK are somewhere between starting a second wave and still being in a poorly controlled first wave. Colombia seems to be still moving up its first wave. The behavior of a virus can be modeled, but only on the basis of assumptions about how people are going to behave. Since we cannot predict this behavior, we cannot even predict how the virus will or will not spread, let alone the political, economic and social consequences. To say this is not to be pessimistic; pessimism would be predicting a dire outcome. Rather, it highlights that the outcome lies in all our hands. Martin On Apr 25, 2020, at 1:43 AM, Julian Williams > wrote: Andy/Greg Each nation state appears to be ?playing? the pandemic in different ways (eg China, Italy, Australia, NZ, Sweden, UK, USA,? check out attached report which comes from https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://pandemic.internationalsos.com/2019-ncov__;!!Mih3wA!SX1Hl8tULKtmBc-b4OAK8JiKXhGwK23CH06GiNPrkjE3pM2BVcdGD6QRm6nL_frEEkkr8A$ I get one of these reports every few days) while sometimes looking to other countries to see how their numbers are growing/falling (and mostly making a damn poor job of it). Before this all got going, the scientists already had a pretty good idea how a pandemic works, and even what needed to be done to prepare for it: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/revealed-uk-ministers-were-warned-last-year-of-risks-of-coronavirus-pandemic__;!!Mih3wA!SX1Hl8tULKtmBc-b4OAK8JiKXhGwK23CH06GiNPrkjE3pM2BVcdGD6QRm6nL_fof_4HlYA$ And now we know a bit more than we did then. There is a prediction/warning there about a number of pandemic waves? In the second ?wave?, we ? the world subject-in-formation may have learnt more, maybe there will be fewer deaths? Maybe we will rescue WHO, maybe not (I won?t predict). But maybe the science community will be paying serious attention, and especially to its duty to the ?public good?. But there are some contradictory signs. In my own university we seem to be about to enter a new austerity, (implemented from the top by a failing leadership, led by a true academic, bio scientist no less!) What is clear is that the ?public? and its social movements are key to forcing each government to act, and that in almost all cases our leaders and rulers have followed along reluctantly ? even while the science and the pandemic plan was there. In the third and subsequent waves? I agree it?s not predictable: the outcomes will depend entirely on all of ?us?. And in the next ?big one?, the climate collapse? Maybe all this pandemic ?play? will have helped prepare us, we maybe will learn how to build the institutions, policies etc for the world?s ?public good? in time. I still have hope. I use Vygotsky-Leontiev?s idea of ?play? as the leading activity of the pre-schooler, as I find it complements the notion of world perezhivanie ? yes, we are experiencing trauma and that drives activity to overcome, etc, but also in this play we are acting, reflecting, and always ? above all - imagining and re-imagining (modelling etc) our world future. Julian From: > on behalf of Andy Blunden > Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Date: Saturday, 25 April 2020 at 02:08 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? Greg, the word is polysemic, as Mike said, but I agree with Michael that perezhivaniya are essentially collective experiences. As I say in the article, that COVID will be experienced differently in different countries, by different classes and social groups is an important part of this process. It does not detract it from its being a single experience. Huw, a "world subject" is emergent at this moment. It is implicit or "in-itself" but I look forward to the appearance of such a world subject, though who know how long and through what traumas we will pass before it is an actuality. Like WW2, the COVID pandemic part of its birth process. * https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/seminars/perezhivanie.htm__;!!Mih3wA!SX1Hl8tULKtmBc-b4OAK8JiKXhGwK23CH06GiNPrkjE3pM2BVcdGD6QRm6nL_fp3o7QXCg$ , Notes, links, excerpts, 2009 * https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Blunden_article*response.pdf__;Kw!!Mih3wA!SX1Hl8tULKtmBc-b4OAK8JiKXhGwK23CH06GiNPrkjE3pM2BVcdGD6QRm6nL_foq-eKQAQ$ , MCA article 2016 * https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Coronavirus-pandemic.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!SX1Hl8tULKtmBc-b4OAK8JiKXhGwK23CH06GiNPrkjE3pM2BVcdGD6QRm6nL_fpTaknoAA$ Andy ________________________________ Andy Blunden Hegel for Social Movements Home Page On 25/04/2020 4:01 am, Greg Thompson wrote: I'm wondering about Andy's suggestion that covid-19 is a (or maybe "is creating a"?) world perezhivanie. That seems a really rich suggestion but I'm not sure how many of us on the list really understand what he means by this. Andy tends to just tell me to go read more and so I'm wondering if someone else might be willing to take a stab at explaining what he might mean. Also, as a critical intervention, I am wondering whether covid-19 is the "same" for everyone. We have folks in the U.S. who think it is basically just a typical flu that has been turned into a political tool to attack the current president. Or does that not matter for perezhivanie? (and just to be clear, my question is not whether or not this is true or right or beautiful to think this way; my question is whether or not this is how people are actually experiencing the world since I assume that this is what perezhivanie is supposed to be "getting at". Or am I misunderstanding perezhivanie?) So is there really a shared perezhivanie here? (Is The Problem of Age the place to look for answers?) But if no one wants to take this up (perhaps too much ink has been spilt over perezhivanie?), that's fine too. Cheers, greg -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!SX1Hl8tULKtmBc-b4OAK8JiKXhGwK23CH06GiNPrkjE3pM2BVcdGD6QRm6nL_fpU8PnnFA$ https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!SX1Hl8tULKtmBc-b4OAK8JiKXhGwK23CH06GiNPrkjE3pM2BVcdGD6QRm6nL_fqxDF78EQ$ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200425/73f91cd2/attachment.html From mpacker@cantab.net Sat Apr 25 10:07:30 2020 From: mpacker@cantab.net (Martin Packer) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2020 12:07:30 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? In-Reply-To: References: <7f661750-350f-9e76-d6b3-1598132af583@marxists.org> <1056380D-069C-40AE-934F-EA2A1212ACDB@manchester.ac.uk> <0E64BF76-A158-453E-B233-64D5E00625FA@cantab.net> <8DD6C766-811B-4B08-8B10-6ECA676FAA50@cantab.net> Message-ID: That?s the problem with predicting - it all depends! :) Yes, coronavirus may become endemic, like flu or the common cold or something worse. Or a vaccine may be developed. Or if 4 in 5 are somehow naturally resistant, and if most of the 1 in 5 who become infected develop immunity as a result, the incidence of covid could drop dramatically. Or we could all drink disinfectant. Martin > On Apr 25, 2020, at 11:49 AM, David H Kirshner wrote: > > It is possible that the virus is eradicated, like SARS was, but that?s increasingly unlikely. > More likely is that ?2019-nCoV joins the four coronaviruses now circulating in people. ?I can imagine a scenario where this becomes a fifth endemic human coronavirus,? said Stephen Morse of Columbia University?s Mailman School of Public Health, an epidemiologist and expert on emerging infectious diseases.? > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.statnews.com/2020/02/04/two-scenarios-if-new-coronavirus-isnt-contained/__;!!Mih3wA!RVNtn-I3HU6JPiiAKYRAh4KkohfKV4s7WjLnf8iFOlTEncRqdWQNKvU-utfxwWzhJn4GgQ$ > > The fact that such a large proportion of people who contract the virus are asymptomatic make this one very hard to contain. Of course, the possibility of a vaccine would greatly reduce its human toll. > > David > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > On Behalf Of Martin Packer > Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 11:14 AM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? > > David, > > There is talk about the possible eradication of the virus in Australia and New Zealand, from what I have read. Eradication is difficult when no one has resistance, but not impossible. Other virus infections have been eradicated, as far as one can tell, such as smallpox. > > In Wuhan, where the infections started, which is a city of around 11 million people, less that 70,000 cases were reported. Even if that is vastly underreported by a factor of 10 it is less than 10%. And studies in California suggest that only 1 in 5 have been infected, of whom 60% have not experienced any symptoms. Only around 5% need hospitalization. > > Martin > > > > On Apr 25, 2020, at 10:46 AM, David H Kirshner > wrote: > > Martin, > The scenario you sketched out is what I?d thought would/could happen, but the epidemiologists don?t ever talk about eradicating the virus, they just talk about slowing the spread so as not to overwhelm health care facilities. Eventually, everyone who can get it will get it. So a generation of older and weaker people will be adversely affected, many dying. It?s only in the next generation when most people have gotten it young that it will fade into the background, like the common cold. > David > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > On Behalf Of Martin Packer > Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 7:42 AM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? > > Julian, > > If no efforts are made to contain a virus it will move through a population in a single wave, infecting many people and then disappearing as no more potential hosts are available. > > If efforts to contain it ? lockdown ? are adequate there will be a single much smaller wave, followed again by elimination as hosts are not available. > > If containment is not effective ? if people don?t isolate sufficiently ? there may be a second wave when the containment is reduced. Or the first wave may not be controlled. > > As you say, each country is responding differently. Australia seems close to eliminating the virus after a single wave. The US and UK are somewhere between starting a second wave and still being in a poorly controlled first wave. Colombia seems to be still moving up its first wave. > > The behavior of a virus can be modeled, but only on the basis of assumptions about how people are going to behave. Since we cannot predict this behavior, we cannot even predict how the virus will or will not spread, let alone the political, economic and social consequences. > > To say this is not to be pessimistic; pessimism would be predicting a dire outcome. Rather, it highlights that the outcome lies in all our hands. > > Martin > > > > > > On Apr 25, 2020, at 1:43 AM, Julian Williams > wrote: > > Andy/Greg > > Each nation state appears to be ?playing? the pandemic in different ways (eg China, Italy, Australia, NZ, Sweden, UK, USA,? check out attached report which comes from https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://pandemic.internationalsos.com/2019-ncov__;!!Mih3wA!RVNtn-I3HU6JPiiAKYRAh4KkohfKV4s7WjLnf8iFOlTEncRqdWQNKvU-utfxwWxWGjzNIg$ I get one of these reports every few days) while sometimes looking to other countries to see how their numbers are growing/falling (and mostly making a damn poor job of it). > > Before this all got going, the scientists already had a pretty good idea how a pandemic works, and even what needed to be done to prepare for it: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/revealed-uk-ministers-were-warned-last-year-of-risks-of-coronavirus-pandemic__;!!Mih3wA!RVNtn-I3HU6JPiiAKYRAh4KkohfKV4s7WjLnf8iFOlTEncRqdWQNKvU-utfxwWzGiwbXUw$ > And now we know a bit more than we did then. > > There is a prediction/warning there about a number of pandemic waves? > > In the second ?wave?, we ? the world subject-in-formation may have learnt more, maybe there will be fewer deaths? Maybe we will rescue WHO, maybe not (I won?t predict). But maybe the science community will be paying serious attention, and especially to its duty to the ?public good?. But there are some contradictory signs. In my own university we seem to be about to enter a new austerity, (implemented from the top by a failing leadership, led by a true academic, bio scientist no less!) > > What is clear is that the ?public? and its social movements are key to forcing each government to act, and that in almost all cases our leaders and rulers have followed along reluctantly ? even while the science and the pandemic plan was there. > > In the third and subsequent waves? I agree it?s not predictable: the outcomes will depend entirely on all of ?us?. > > And in the next ?big one?, the climate collapse? Maybe all this pandemic ?play? will have helped prepare us, we maybe will learn how to build the institutions, policies etc for the world?s ?public good? in time. I still have hope. > > I use Vygotsky-Leontiev?s idea of ?play? as the leading activity of the pre-schooler, as I find it complements the notion of world perezhivanie ? yes, we are experiencing trauma and that drives activity to overcome, etc, but also in this play we are acting, reflecting, and always ? above all - imagining and re-imagining (modelling etc) our world future. > > Julian > > > > From: > on behalf of Andy Blunden > > Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > > Date: Saturday, 25 April 2020 at 02:08 > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? > > Greg, the word is polysemic, as Mike said, but I agree with Michael that perezhivaniya are essentially collective experiences. As I say in the article, that COVID will be experienced differently in different countries, by different classes and social groups is an important part of this process. It does not detract it from its being a single experience. > Huw, a "world subject" is emergent at this moment. It is implicit or "in-itself" but I look forward to the appearance of such a world subject, though who know how long and through what traumas we will pass before it is an actuality. Like WW2, the COVID pandemic part of its birth process. > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/seminars/perezhivanie.htm__;!!Mih3wA!RVNtn-I3HU6JPiiAKYRAh4KkohfKV4s7WjLnf8iFOlTEncRqdWQNKvU-utfxwWw0NYx_MQ$ , Notes, links, excerpts, 2009 > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Blunden_article*response.pdf__;Kw!!Mih3wA!RVNtn-I3HU6JPiiAKYRAh4KkohfKV4s7WjLnf8iFOlTEncRqdWQNKvU-utfxwWzq7mm76w$ , MCA article 2016 > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Coronavirus-pandemic.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!RVNtn-I3HU6JPiiAKYRAh4KkohfKV4s7WjLnf8iFOlTEncRqdWQNKvU-utfxwWyu4bOidw$ > Andy > > Andy Blunden > Hegel for Social Movements > Home Page > On 25/04/2020 4:01 am, Greg Thompson wrote: > I'm wondering about Andy's suggestion that covid-19 is a (or maybe "is creating a"?) world perezhivanie. That seems a really rich suggestion but I'm not sure how many of us on the list really understand what he means by this. > > Andy tends to just tell me to go read more and so I'm wondering if someone else might be willing to take a stab at explaining what he might mean. > > Also, as a critical intervention, I am wondering whether covid-19 is the "same" for everyone. We have folks in the U.S. who think it is basically just a typical flu that has been turned into a political tool to attack the current president. Or does that not matter for perezhivanie? > > (and just to be clear, my question is not whether or not this is true or right or beautiful to think this way; my question is whether or not this is how people are actually experiencing the world since I assume that this is what perezhivanie is supposed to be "getting at". Or am I misunderstanding perezhivanie?) > > So is there really a shared perezhivanie here? > (Is The Problem of Age the place to look for answers?) > > But if no one wants to take this up (perhaps too much ink has been spilt over perezhivanie?), that's fine too. > > Cheers, > greg > > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!RVNtn-I3HU6JPiiAKYRAh4KkohfKV4s7WjLnf8iFOlTEncRqdWQNKvU-utfxwWxi7Qsc3Q$ > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!RVNtn-I3HU6JPiiAKYRAh4KkohfKV4s7WjLnf8iFOlTEncRqdWQNKvU-utfxwWxZPchxMg$ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200425/b1e126f1/attachment.html From julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk Sat Apr 25 11:24:19 2020 From: julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk (Julian Williams) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2020 18:24:19 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? In-Reply-To: References: <7f661750-350f-9e76-d6b3-1598132af583@marxists.org> <1056380D-069C-40AE-934F-EA2A1212ACDB@manchester.ac.uk> <0E64BF76-A158-453E-B233-64D5E00625FA@cantab.net> <8DD6C766-811B-4B08-8B10-6ECA676FAA50@cantab.net> , Message-ID: <04B33A84-A10E-4E3E-B7D4-358E9DD62EF6@manchester.ac.uk> Martin, David Yes a lot depends... on ?us?. Check out the report, where you can see how much was ?predicted? years ago, even the possible public outrage ensuing government failures ; but yes my decisive, main point was not to predict, but to ACT. David I agree the bioscience issues are important, but bear in mind that our sloppy public health systems globally ( eg with wild life markets) expose humanity to many new viruses ( they estimate 2-4 new viruses per year) - our relations and actions shape this threat. Then also not just immediately, but imaginatively, to play with models (and not just those reductive epidemiologists? ?predictions?) .. but to imagineer a world subject that can act in future to tackle essentially GLOBAL challenges. Best wishes Julian On 25 Apr 2020, at 18:10, Martin Packer > wrote: That?s the problem with predicting - it all depends! :) Yes, coronavirus may become endemic, like flu or the common cold or something worse. Or a vaccine may be developed. Or if 4 in 5 are somehow naturally resistant, and if most of the 1 in 5 who become infected develop immunity as a result, the incidence of covid could drop dramatically. Or we could all drink disinfectant. Martin On Apr 25, 2020, at 11:49 AM, David H Kirshner > wrote: It is possible that the virus is eradicated, like SARS was, but that?s increasingly unlikely. More likely is that ?2019-nCoV joins the four coronaviruses now circulating in people. ?I can imagine a scenario where this becomes a fifth endemic human coronavirus,? said Stephen Morse of Columbia University?s Mailman School of Public Health, an epidemiologist and expert on emerging infectious diseases.? https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.statnews.com/2020/02/04/two-scenarios-if-new-coronavirus-isnt-contained/__;!!Mih3wA!VIp2dgS78BCNOrYfFbrOOJR7odgcblA403OlDLPyPYVwNMwhLsoXiDtKJHp2krpzNUUMcw$ The fact that such a large proportion of people who contract the virus are asymptomatic make this one very hard to contain. Of course, the possibility of a vaccine would greatly reduce its human toll. David From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > On Behalf Of Martin Packer Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 11:14 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? David, There is talk about the possible eradication of the virus in Australia and New Zealand, from what I have read. Eradication is difficult when no one has resistance, but not impossible. Other virus infections have been eradicated, as far as one can tell, such as smallpox. In Wuhan, where the infections started, which is a city of around 11 million people, less that 70,000 cases were reported. Even if that is vastly underreported by a factor of 10 it is less than 10%. And studies in California suggest that only 1 in 5 have been infected, of whom 60% have not experienced any symptoms. Only around 5% need hospitalization. Martin On Apr 25, 2020, at 10:46 AM, David H Kirshner > wrote: Martin, The scenario you sketched out is what I?d thought would/could happen, but the epidemiologists don?t ever talk about eradicating the virus, they just talk about slowing the spread so as not to overwhelm health care facilities. Eventually, everyone who can get it will get it. So a generation of older and weaker people will be adversely affected, many dying. It?s only in the next generation when most people have gotten it young that it will fade into the background, like the common cold. David From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > On Behalf Of Martin Packer Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 7:42 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? Julian, If no efforts are made to contain a virus it will move through a population in a single wave, infecting many people and then disappearing as no more potential hosts are available. If efforts to contain it ? lockdown ? are adequate there will be a single much smaller wave, followed again by elimination as hosts are not available. If containment is not effective ? if people don?t isolate sufficiently ? there may be a second wave when the containment is reduced. Or the first wave may not be controlled. As you say, each country is responding differently. Australia seems close to eliminating the virus after a single wave. The US and UK are somewhere between starting a second wave and still being in a poorly controlled first wave. Colombia seems to be still moving up its first wave. The behavior of a virus can be modeled, but only on the basis of assumptions about how people are going to behave. Since we cannot predict this behavior, we cannot even predict how the virus will or will not spread, let alone the political, economic and social consequences. To say this is not to be pessimistic; pessimism would be predicting a dire outcome. Rather, it highlights that the outcome lies in all our hands. Martin On Apr 25, 2020, at 1:43 AM, Julian Williams > wrote: Andy/Greg Each nation state appears to be ?playing? the pandemic in different ways (eg China, Italy, Australia, NZ, Sweden, UK, USA,? check out attached report which comes from https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://pandemic.internationalsos.com/2019-ncov__;!!Mih3wA!VIp2dgS78BCNOrYfFbrOOJR7odgcblA403OlDLPyPYVwNMwhLsoXiDtKJHp2krrLibyg1A$ I get one of these reports every few days) while sometimes looking to other countries to see how their numbers are growing/falling (and mostly making a damn poor job of it). Before this all got going, the scientists already had a pretty good idea how a pandemic works, and even what needed to be done to prepare for it: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/revealed-uk-ministers-were-warned-last-year-of-risks-of-coronavirus-pandemic__;!!Mih3wA!VIp2dgS78BCNOrYfFbrOOJR7odgcblA403OlDLPyPYVwNMwhLsoXiDtKJHp2krryHV9azA$ And now we know a bit more than we did then. There is a prediction/warning there about a number of pandemic waves? In the second ?wave?, we ? the world subject-in-formation may have learnt more, maybe there will be fewer deaths? Maybe we will rescue WHO, maybe not (I won?t predict). But maybe the science community will be paying serious attention, and especially to its duty to the ?public good?. But there are some contradictory signs. In my own university we seem to be about to enter a new austerity, (implemented from the top by a failing leadership, led by a true academic, bio scientist no less!) What is clear is that the ?public? and its social movements are key to forcing each government to act, and that in almost all cases our leaders and rulers have followed along reluctantly ? even while the science and the pandemic plan was there. In the third and subsequent waves? I agree it?s not predictable: the outcomes will depend entirely on all of ?us?. And in the next ?big one?, the climate collapse? Maybe all this pandemic ?play? will have helped prepare us, we maybe will learn how to build the institutions, policies etc for the world?s ?public good? in time. I still have hope. I use Vygotsky-Leontiev?s idea of ?play? as the leading activity of the pre-schooler, as I find it complements the notion of world perezhivanie ? yes, we are experiencing trauma and that drives activity to overcome, etc, but also in this play we are acting, reflecting, and always ? above all - imagining and re-imagining (modelling etc) our world future. Julian From: > on behalf of Andy Blunden > Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Date: Saturday, 25 April 2020 at 02:08 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? Greg, the word is polysemic, as Mike said, but I agree with Michael that perezhivaniya are essentially collective experiences. As I say in the article, that COVID will be experienced differently in different countries, by different classes and social groups is an important part of this process. It does not detract it from its being a single experience. Huw, a "world subject" is emergent at this moment. It is implicit or "in-itself" but I look forward to the appearance of such a world subject, though who know how long and through what traumas we will pass before it is an actuality. Like WW2, the COVID pandemic part of its birth process. * https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/seminars/perezhivanie.htm__;!!Mih3wA!VIp2dgS78BCNOrYfFbrOOJR7odgcblA403OlDLPyPYVwNMwhLsoXiDtKJHp2krpGt3HCiQ$ , Notes, links, excerpts, 2009 * https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Blunden_article*response.pdf__;Kw!!Mih3wA!VIp2dgS78BCNOrYfFbrOOJR7odgcblA403OlDLPyPYVwNMwhLsoXiDtKJHp2krqx3A5sxA$ , MCA article 2016 * https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Coronavirus-pandemic.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!VIp2dgS78BCNOrYfFbrOOJR7odgcblA403OlDLPyPYVwNMwhLsoXiDtKJHp2krroYOluYg$ Andy ________________________________ Andy Blunden Hegel for Social Movements Home Page On 25/04/2020 4:01 am, Greg Thompson wrote: I'm wondering about Andy's suggestion that covid-19 is a (or maybe "is creating a"?) world perezhivanie. That seems a really rich suggestion but I'm not sure how many of us on the list really understand what he means by this. Andy tends to just tell me to go read more and so I'm wondering if someone else might be willing to take a stab at explaining what he might mean. Also, as a critical intervention, I am wondering whether covid-19 is the "same" for everyone. We have folks in the U.S. who think it is basically just a typical flu that has been turned into a political tool to attack the current president. Or does that not matter for perezhivanie? (and just to be clear, my question is not whether or not this is true or right or beautiful to think this way; my question is whether or not this is how people are actually experiencing the world since I assume that this is what perezhivanie is supposed to be "getting at". Or am I misunderstanding perezhivanie?) So is there really a shared perezhivanie here? (Is The Problem of Age the place to look for answers?) But if no one wants to take this up (perhaps too much ink has been spilt over perezhivanie?), that's fine too. Cheers, greg -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!VIp2dgS78BCNOrYfFbrOOJR7odgcblA403OlDLPyPYVwNMwhLsoXiDtKJHp2krrVXiI9PA$ https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!VIp2dgS78BCNOrYfFbrOOJR7odgcblA403OlDLPyPYVwNMwhLsoXiDtKJHp2krpYW7hs0g$ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200425/0d74dbf6/attachment.html From hshonerd@gmail.com Sat Apr 25 12:13:26 2020 From: hshonerd@gmail.com (HENRY SHONERD) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2020 13:13:26 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? In-Reply-To: <7f661750-350f-9e76-d6b3-1598132af583@marxists.org> References: <7f661750-350f-9e76-d6b3-1598132af583@marxists.org> Message-ID: <3028055C-DCFF-43C0-82D5-CB8EEA2BE3F2@gmail.com> Andy, In the reading from the third link below, you mention "rolling National Liberation Movements?. There?s a song by Sylvio Rodr?guez that captures for me the collective affect of perivanie. I learned it in Cuba in 1969. It?s in Spanish, but Google translate is easy to use. Still no words in English can quite capture the sense of the title "La era est? pariendo un coraz?n, no puede m?s, se muere de dolor?. How can a heart give birth to a world? Henry > On Apr 24, 2020, at 7:05 PM, Andy Blunden wrote: > > Greg, the word is polysemic, as Mike said, but I agree with Michael that perezhivaniya are essentially collective experiences. As I say in the article, that COVID will be experienced differently in different countries, by different classes and social groups is an important part of this process. It does not detract it from its being a single experience. > > Huw, a "world subject" is emergent at this moment. It is implicit or "in-itself" but I look forward to the appearance of such a world subject, though who know how long and through what traumas we will pass before it is an actuality. Like WW2, the COVID pandemic part of its birth process. > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/seminars/perezhivanie.htm__;!!Mih3wA!RmnsQ3t1OwFyhgqspMRlvOm5J-mCvnNCmtd1Akieh2MacDKFt3JtMRTaDO7OdF-rH2MYwQ$ , Notes, links, excerpts, 2009 > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Blunden_article*response.pdf__;Kw!!Mih3wA!RmnsQ3t1OwFyhgqspMRlvOm5J-mCvnNCmtd1Akieh2MacDKFt3JtMRTaDO7OdF-Bk4L6gw$ , MCA article 2016 > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Coronavirus-pandemic.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!RmnsQ3t1OwFyhgqspMRlvOm5J-mCvnNCmtd1Akieh2MacDKFt3JtMRTaDO7OdF8x-DTxaw$ > Andy > > > > Andy Blunden > Hegel for Social Movements > Home Page > On 25/04/2020 4:01 am, Greg Thompson wrote: >> I'm wondering about Andy's suggestion that covid-19 is a (or maybe "is creating a"?) world perezhivanie. That seems a really rich suggestion but I'm not sure how many of us on the list really understand what he means by this. >> >> Andy tends to just tell me to go read more and so I'm wondering if someone else might be willing to take a stab at explaining what he might mean. >> >> Also, as a critical intervention, I am wondering whether covid-19 is the "same" for everyone. We have folks in the U.S. who think it is basically just a typical flu that has been turned into a political tool to attack the current president. Or does that not matter for perezhivanie? >> >> (and just to be clear, my question is not whether or not this is true or right or beautiful to think this way; my question is whether or not this is how people are actually experiencing the world since I assume that this is what perezhivanie is supposed to be "getting at". Or am I misunderstanding perezhivanie?) >> >> So is there really a shared perezhivanie here? >> (Is The Problem of Age the place to look for answers?) >> >> But if no one wants to take this up (perhaps too much ink has been spilt over perezhivanie?), that's fine too. >> >> Cheers, >> greg >> >> >> -- >> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >> Assistant Professor >> Department of Anthropology >> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >> Brigham Young University >> Provo, UT 84602 >> WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!RmnsQ3t1OwFyhgqspMRlvOm5J-mCvnNCmtd1Akieh2MacDKFt3JtMRTaDO7OdF-EhL9tEw$ >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!RmnsQ3t1OwFyhgqspMRlvOm5J-mCvnNCmtd1Akieh2MacDKFt3JtMRTaDO7OdF8QSWcmBA$ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200425/6f4695d6/attachment.html From ulvi.icil@gmail.com Sat Apr 25 12:19:56 2020 From: ulvi.icil@gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?VWx2aSDEsMOnaWw=?=) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2020 22:19:56 +0300 Subject: [Xmca-l] =?utf-8?q?=2215_La_era_est=C3=A1_pariendo_un_coraz=C3=B3n_-_Omar?= =?utf-8?q?a_portuondo_y_Mart=C3=ADn_Rojas=22?= Message-ID: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://youtu.be/qTJzYtd1l7M__;!!Mih3wA!WIW89lahdAHo8g-kQ9_bgc1f2np__40pidl0CNpTdFrwPXIc8x5ToKRE3EX78uxZGs14Hw$ I think best interpretation of this song. Ulvi -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200425/3029f164/attachment.html From hshonerd@gmail.com Sat Apr 25 12:32:26 2020 From: hshonerd@gmail.com (HENRY SHONERD) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2020 13:32:26 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: =?utf-8?q?=2215_La_era_est=C3=A1_pariendo_un_coraz=C3=B3n_-_O?= =?utf-8?q?mara_portuondo_y_Mart=C3=ADn_Rojas=22?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <58ECF3D2-737A-4255-B7A0-081D480DE962@gmail.com> Ulvi, I know this version. I am pretty sure I first heard a different version long ago. I realize that I mistranslated the ?La Era Est? Pariendo Un Coraz?n?. It should be ?An era is giving birth to a heart? But then, ?No puede m?s, se muere de dolor?, must mean that the era itself is experiencing the pain as it gives birth to the heart. Henry > On Apr 25, 2020, at 1:19 PM, Ulvi ??il wrote: > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://youtu.be/qTJzYtd1l7M__;!!Mih3wA!VlEaAhyMFgXDziJNvGEt-MsPVZg-VRg7i356byRSFPbjMMbQly_ckuZeNvi0KZmTXNgzpQ$ > > I think best interpretation of this song. > > Ulvi -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200425/1e643edc/attachment.html From tom.richardson3@googlemail.com Sat Apr 25 12:35:36 2020 From: tom.richardson3@googlemail.com (Tom Richardson) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2020 20:35:36 +0100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: =?utf-8?q?=2215_La_era_est=C3=A1_pariendo_un_coraz=C3=B3n_-_O?= =?utf-8?q?mara_portuondo_y_Mart=C3=ADn_Rojas=22?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you, Ulvi icil - touching, passionate - although my Spanish isn't able to translate it - but that matters not - the feeling is there. Tom Richardson Middlesbrough UK BoWen On Sat, 25 Apr 2020 at 20:23, Ulvi ??il wrote: > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://youtu.be/qTJzYtd1l7M__;!!Mih3wA!Tv7acbkohtLpmcZSGMv2sgGVCUbDDuv1NwO3mfBOCA1dnxwL6faG6r8JFzGrnJN2gS4DwA$ > > > > I think best interpretation of this song. > > Ulvi > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200425/96089eec/attachment.html From ulvi.icil@gmail.com Sat Apr 25 12:40:08 2020 From: ulvi.icil@gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?VWx2aSDEsMOnaWw=?=) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2020 22:40:08 +0300 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: =?utf-8?q?=2215_La_era_est=C3=A1_pariendo_un_coraz=C3=B3n_-_O?= =?utf-8?q?mara_portuondo_y_Mart=C3=ADn_Rojas=22?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks to you Tom and to Henry. 25 Nis 2020 Cmt 22:39 tarihinde Tom Richardson < tom.richardson3@googlemail.com> ?unu yazd?: > Thank you, Ulvi icil - touching, passionate - although my Spanish isn't > able to translate it - but that matters not - the feeling is there. > Tom Richardson > Middlesbrough UK > BoWen > > > On Sat, 25 Apr 2020 at 20:23, Ulvi ??il wrote: > >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://youtu.be/qTJzYtd1l7M__;!!Mih3wA!RNeU2FjErx3Rcx9mKWmCGKh7Qa9B4kwiRTPI62JeFjlpQja1Lz4LMjmtWmEI4o8gsmVfvw$ >> >> >> >> I think best interpretation of this song. >> >> Ulvi >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200425/cf13f236/attachment.html From mpacker@cantab.net Sat Apr 25 14:42:31 2020 From: mpacker@cantab.net (Martin Packer) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2020 16:42:31 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? In-Reply-To: <04B33A84-A10E-4E3E-B7D4-358E9DD62EF6@manchester.ac.uk> References: <7f661750-350f-9e76-d6b3-1598132af583@marxists.org> <1056380D-069C-40AE-934F-EA2A1212ACDB@manchester.ac.uk> <0E64BF76-A158-453E-B233-64D5E00625FA@cantab.net> <8DD6C766-811B-4B08-8B10-6ECA676FAA50@cantab.net> <04B33A84-A10E-4E3E-B7D4-358E9DD62EF6@manchester.ac.uk> Message-ID: Julien, Yes, as I wrote in a previous message, "the outcome lies in all our hands.? The data we have been seeing ? R0, infection rates, death rates ? are not facts about the virus, they are facts about our interaction with the virus. They reflect the actions we have been taking. A virus is an inert object; it cannot move or metabolize, and it can reproduce only via the molecular apparatus inside the cell of another organism. If a virus travels, or spreads, it is because humans are carrying it from one place to another, and coughing and sneezing in public. But Andy will remind you that acting is always part of a *project* - a *projection* into the future. If we cannot accurately predict that doesn?t mean we cannot act, but it does mean we must act in a flexible way. Of course there is always uncertainty in this world, but usually we can assume ceteris paribus: ?other things being equal.? Today that?s not the case. Talk of an emergent ?world subject? worries me insofar as it suggests that this subject must already know what is to be done. I would suggest that we need to *figure out* what to do, based on science, observations of what has worked and what hasn?t, sensitivity to diverse circumstances, and more. Martin > On Apr 25, 2020, at 1:24 PM, Julian Williams wrote: > > Martin, David > > Yes a lot depends... on ?us?. > > Check out the report, where you can see how much was ?predicted? years ago, even the possible public outrage ensuing government failures ; but yes my decisive, main point was not to predict, but to ACT. > > David I agree the bioscience issues are important, but bear in mind that our sloppy public health systems globally ( eg with wild life markets) expose humanity to many new viruses ( they estimate 2-4 new viruses per year) - our relations and actions shape this threat. > > Then also not just immediately, but imaginatively, to play with models (and not just those reductive epidemiologists? ?predictions?) .. but to imagineer a world subject that can act in future to tackle essentially GLOBAL challenges. > > Best wishes > > Julian > > On 25 Apr 2020, at 18:10, Martin Packer > wrote: > >> That?s the problem with predicting - it all depends! :) >> >> Yes, coronavirus may become endemic, like flu or the common cold or something worse. >> >> Or a vaccine may be developed. >> >> Or if 4 in 5 are somehow naturally resistant, and if most of the 1 in 5 who become infected develop immunity as a result, the incidence of covid could drop dramatically. >> >> Or we could all drink disinfectant. >> >> Martin >> >> >> >>> On Apr 25, 2020, at 11:49 AM, David H Kirshner > wrote: >>> >>> It is possible that the virus is eradicated, like SARS was, but that?s increasingly unlikely. >>> More likely is that ?2019-nCoV joins the four coronaviruses now circulating in people. ?I can imagine a scenario where this becomes a fifth endemic human coronavirus,? said Stephen Morse of Columbia University?s Mailman School of Public Health, an epidemiologist and expert on emerging infectious diseases.? >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.statnews.com/2020/02/04/two-scenarios-if-new-coronavirus-isnt-contained/__;!!Mih3wA!Qf2nbQnSfTysWAhseMAHf5fOpUvBJCHnKJmHMtniSJkQvOsBHrR03mIYE1tQgyfoRGaEsA$ >>> >>> The fact that such a large proportion of people who contract the virus are asymptomatic make this one very hard to contain. Of course, the possibility of a vaccine would greatly reduce its human toll. >>> >>> David >>> >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > On Behalf Of Martin Packer >>> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 11:14 AM >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? >>> >>> David, >>> >>> There is talk about the possible eradication of the virus in Australia and New Zealand, from what I have read. Eradication is difficult when no one has resistance, but not impossible. Other virus infections have been eradicated, as far as one can tell, such as smallpox. >>> >>> In Wuhan, where the infections started, which is a city of around 11 million people, less that 70,000 cases were reported. Even if that is vastly underreported by a factor of 10 it is less than 10%. And studies in California suggest that only 1 in 5 have been infected, of whom 60% have not experienced any symptoms. Only around 5% need hospitalization. >>> >>> Martin >>> >>> >>> >>> On Apr 25, 2020, at 10:46 AM, David H Kirshner > wrote: >>> >>> Martin, >>> The scenario you sketched out is what I?d thought would/could happen, but the epidemiologists don?t ever talk about eradicating the virus, they just talk about slowing the spread so as not to overwhelm health care facilities. Eventually, everyone who can get it will get it. So a generation of older and weaker people will be adversely affected, many dying. It?s only in the next generation when most people have gotten it young that it will fade into the background, like the common cold. >>> David >>> >>> >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > On Behalf Of Martin Packer >>> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 7:42 AM >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? >>> >>> Julian, >>> >>> If no efforts are made to contain a virus it will move through a population in a single wave, infecting many people and then disappearing as no more potential hosts are available. >>> >>> If efforts to contain it ? lockdown ? are adequate there will be a single much smaller wave, followed again by elimination as hosts are not available. >>> >>> If containment is not effective ? if people don?t isolate sufficiently ? there may be a second wave when the containment is reduced. Or the first wave may not be controlled. >>> >>> As you say, each country is responding differently. Australia seems close to eliminating the virus after a single wave. The US and UK are somewhere between starting a second wave and still being in a poorly controlled first wave. Colombia seems to be still moving up its first wave. >>> >>> The behavior of a virus can be modeled, but only on the basis of assumptions about how people are going to behave. Since we cannot predict this behavior, we cannot even predict how the virus will or will not spread, let alone the political, economic and social consequences. >>> >>> To say this is not to be pessimistic; pessimism would be predicting a dire outcome. Rather, it highlights that the outcome lies in all our hands. >>> >>> Martin >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Apr 25, 2020, at 1:43 AM, Julian Williams > wrote: >>> >>> Andy/Greg >>> >>> Each nation state appears to be ?playing? the pandemic in different ways (eg China, Italy, Australia, NZ, Sweden, UK, USA,? check out attached report which comes from https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://pandemic.internationalsos.com/2019-ncov__;!!Mih3wA!Qf2nbQnSfTysWAhseMAHf5fOpUvBJCHnKJmHMtniSJkQvOsBHrR03mIYE1tQgydRuC1-Jg$ I get one of these reports every few days) while sometimes looking to other countries to see how their numbers are growing/falling (and mostly making a damn poor job of it). >>> >>> Before this all got going, the scientists already had a pretty good idea how a pandemic works, and even what needed to be done to prepare for it: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/revealed-uk-ministers-were-warned-last-year-of-risks-of-coronavirus-pandemic__;!!Mih3wA!Qf2nbQnSfTysWAhseMAHf5fOpUvBJCHnKJmHMtniSJkQvOsBHrR03mIYE1tQgyestSAW-g$ >>> And now we know a bit more than we did then. >>> >>> There is a prediction/warning there about a number of pandemic waves? >>> >>> In the second ?wave?, we ? the world subject-in-formation may have learnt more, maybe there will be fewer deaths? Maybe we will rescue WHO, maybe not (I won?t predict). But maybe the science community will be paying serious attention, and especially to its duty to the ?public good?. But there are some contradictory signs. In my own university we seem to be about to enter a new austerity, (implemented from the top by a failing leadership, led by a true academic, bio scientist no less!) >>> >>> What is clear is that the ?public? and its social movements are key to forcing each government to act, and that in almost all cases our leaders and rulers have followed along reluctantly ? even while the science and the pandemic plan was there. >>> >>> In the third and subsequent waves? I agree it?s not predictable: the outcomes will depend entirely on all of ?us?. >>> >>> And in the next ?big one?, the climate collapse? Maybe all this pandemic ?play? will have helped prepare us, we maybe will learn how to build the institutions, policies etc for the world?s ?public good? in time. I still have hope. >>> >>> I use Vygotsky-Leontiev?s idea of ?play? as the leading activity of the pre-schooler, as I find it complements the notion of world perezhivanie ? yes, we are experiencing trauma and that drives activity to overcome, etc, but also in this play we are acting, reflecting, and always ? above all - imagining and re-imagining (modelling etc) our world future. >>> >>> Julian >>> >>> >>> >>> From: > on behalf of Andy Blunden > >>> Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > >>> Date: Saturday, 25 April 2020 at 02:08 >>> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? >>> >>> Greg, the word is polysemic, as Mike said, but I agree with Michael that perezhivaniya are essentially collective experiences. As I say in the article, that COVID will be experienced differently in different countries, by different classes and social groups is an important part of this process. It does not detract it from its being a single experience. >>> Huw, a "world subject" is emergent at this moment. It is implicit or "in-itself" but I look forward to the appearance of such a world subject, though who know how long and through what traumas we will pass before it is an actuality. Like WW2, the COVID pandemic part of its birth process. >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/seminars/perezhivanie.htm__;!!Mih3wA!Qf2nbQnSfTysWAhseMAHf5fOpUvBJCHnKJmHMtniSJkQvOsBHrR03mIYE1tQgycZ8MJS0Q$ , Notes, links, excerpts, 2009 >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Blunden_article*response.pdf__;Kw!!Mih3wA!Qf2nbQnSfTysWAhseMAHf5fOpUvBJCHnKJmHMtniSJkQvOsBHrR03mIYE1tQgyel8mSRKw$ , MCA article 2016 >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Coronavirus-pandemic.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!Qf2nbQnSfTysWAhseMAHf5fOpUvBJCHnKJmHMtniSJkQvOsBHrR03mIYE1tQgyc--lGmcQ$ >>> Andy >>> >>> Andy Blunden >>> Hegel for Social Movements >>> Home Page >>> On 25/04/2020 4:01 am, Greg Thompson wrote: >>> I'm wondering about Andy's suggestion that covid-19 is a (or maybe "is creating a"?) world perezhivanie. That seems a really rich suggestion but I'm not sure how many of us on the list really understand what he means by this. >>> >>> Andy tends to just tell me to go read more and so I'm wondering if someone else might be willing to take a stab at explaining what he might mean. >>> >>> Also, as a critical intervention, I am wondering whether covid-19 is the "same" for everyone. We have folks in the U.S. who think it is basically just a typical flu that has been turned into a political tool to attack the current president. Or does that not matter for perezhivanie? >>> >>> (and just to be clear, my question is not whether or not this is true or right or beautiful to think this way; my question is whether or not this is how people are actually experiencing the world since I assume that this is what perezhivanie is supposed to be "getting at". Or am I misunderstanding perezhivanie?) >>> >>> So is there really a shared perezhivanie here? >>> (Is The Problem of Age the place to look for answers?) >>> >>> But if no one wants to take this up (perhaps too much ink has been spilt over perezhivanie?), that's fine too. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> greg >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>> Assistant Professor >>> Department of Anthropology >>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >>> Brigham Young University >>> Provo, UT 84602 >>> WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!Qf2nbQnSfTysWAhseMAHf5fOpUvBJCHnKJmHMtniSJkQvOsBHrR03mIYE1tQgyfLsh7rCw$ >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!Qf2nbQnSfTysWAhseMAHf5fOpUvBJCHnKJmHMtniSJkQvOsBHrR03mIYE1tQgycjlPs_5A$ >>> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200425/c5e99f0f/attachment.html From andyb@marxists.org Sat Apr 25 17:37:44 2020 From: andyb@marxists.org (Andy Blunden) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2020 10:37:44 +1000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? In-Reply-To: <8DD6C766-811B-4B08-8B10-6ECA676FAA50@cantab.net> References: <7f661750-350f-9e76-d6b3-1598132af583@marxists.org> <1056380D-069C-40AE-934F-EA2A1212ACDB@manchester.ac.uk> <0E64BF76-A158-453E-B233-64D5E00625FA@cantab.net> <8DD6C766-811B-4B08-8B10-6ECA676FAA50@cantab.net> Message-ID: New Zealand's aim is *eradication*, leading to a full return to normal life behind a quarantine wall. Australia's aim is *suppression*. As it happens, we are likely to get to zero cases as fast as NZ, but the difference is that Australia is planning towards equipping ourselves with the Tracking App on everyone's phones, lots of test kits and thousands of people trained and prepared to test. It is assumed that whatever we do, there will be outbreaks, and you could get those waves of infection, and the capacity to return to normal life depends on the ability to contact-trace, test and quarantine with speed and accuracy. The infection rate is currently so low (about 12 a day in pop. of 25m) that we could go back to normal now, if the testing infrastructure was in place. Actually, the population is largely resisting the return to work at the moment. The teachers don't want all the kids back at school. It is possible that Oz and NZ will share a quarantine zone until the vaccine is in use. Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ *Andy Blunden* Hegel for Social Movements Home Page On 26/04/2020 2:14 am, Martin Packer wrote: > David, > > There is talk about the possible?eradication of the virus > in Australia and New Zealand, from what I have read. > Eradication is difficult when no one has resistance, but > not impossible. Other virus infections have been > eradicated, as far as one can tell, such as smallpox. > > In Wuhan, where the infections started, which is a city of > around 11 million people, less that 70,000 cases were > reported. Even if that is vastly underreported by a factor > of 10 it is less than 10%. ?And studies in California > suggest that only 1 in 5 have been infected, of whom 60% > have not experienced any symptoms. Only around 5% need > hospitalization. > > Martin > > >> On Apr 25, 2020, at 10:46 AM, David H Kirshner >> > wrote: >> >> Martin, >> >> The scenario you sketched out is what I?d thought >> would/could happen, but the epidemiologists don?t ever >> talk about eradicating the virus, they just talk about >> slowing the spread so as not to overwhelm health care >> facilities. Eventually, everyone who can get it will get >> it. So a generation of older and weaker people will be >> adversely affected, many dying. It?s only in the next >> generation when most people have gotten it young that it >> will fade into the background, like the common cold. >> >> David >> >> *From:*xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> >> > > *On Behalf Of >> *Martin Packer >> *Sent:* Saturday, April 25, 2020 7:42 AM >> *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >> > >> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? >> >> Julian, >> >> If no efforts are made to contain a virus it will move >> through a population in a single wave, infecting many >> people and then disappearing as no more potential hosts >> are available. >> >> If efforts to contain it ? lockdown ? are adequate there >> will be a single much smaller wave, followed again by >> elimination as hosts are not available. >> >> If containment is not effective ? if people don?t isolate >> sufficiently ? there may be a second wave when the >> containment is reduced. Or the first wave may not be >> controlled. >> >> As you say, each country is responding differently. >> Australia seems close to eliminating the virus after a >> single wave. The US and UK are somewhere between starting >> a second wave and still being in a poorly controlled >> first wave. Colombia seems to be still moving up its >> first wave. >> >> The behavior of a virus can be modeled, but only on the >> basis of assumptions about how people are going to >> behave. Since we cannot predict this behavior, we cannot >> even predict how the virus will or will not spread, let >> alone the political, economic and social consequences. >> >> To say this is not to be pessimistic; pessimism would be >> predicting a dire outcome. Rather, it highlights that the >> outcome lies in all our hands. >> >> Martin >> >> >> >> On Apr 25, 2020, at 1:43 AM, Julian Williams >> > > wrote: >> >> Andy/Greg >> >> Each nation state appears to be ?playing? the >> pandemic in different ways (eg China, Italy, >> Australia, NZ, Sweden, UK, USA,? check out attached >> report which comes >> fromhttps://pandemic.internationalsos.com/2019-ncov >> ???I >> get one of these reports every few days) ?while >> sometimes looking to other countries to see how their >> numbers are growing/falling (and mostly making a damn >> poor job of it). >> >> Before this all got going, the scientists already had >> a pretty good idea how a pandemic works, and even >> what needed to be done to prepare for >> it:https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/revealed-uk-ministers-were-warned-last-year-of-risks-of-coronavirus-pandemic__;!!Mih3wA!XP82Sp95CB9oMNBLZHUfIx2o1vh2230Ejyvp5QYESvRIHhKnxQdoi3JOZIGaMAil2mWVUQ$ >> >> >> And now we know a bit more than we did then. >> >> There is a prediction/warning there about a number of >> pandemic waves? >> >> In the second ?wave?, we ? the world >> subject-in-formation may have learnt more, maybe >> there will be fewer deaths? ?Maybe we will rescue >> WHO, maybe not (I won?t predict). But maybe the >> science community will be paying serious attention, >> and especially to its duty to the ?public good?. But >> there are some contradictory signs. In my own >> university we seem to be about to enter a new >> austerity, (implemented from the top by a failing >> leadership, led by a true academic, bio scientist no >> less!) >> >> What is clear is that the ?public? and its social >> movements are key to forcing each government to act, >> and that in almost all cases our leaders and rulers >> have followed along reluctantly ? even while the >> science and the pandemic plan was there. >> >> In the third and subsequent waves? I agree it?s not >> predictable: the outcomes will depend entirely on all >> of ?us?. >> >> And in the next ?big one?, the climate collapse? >> Maybe all this pandemic ?play? will have helped >> prepare us, we maybe will learn how to build the >> institutions, policies etc for the world?s ?public >> good? in time. I still have hope. >> >> I use Vygotsky-Leontiev?s idea of ?play? as the >> leading activity of the pre-schooler, as I find it >> complements the notion of world perezhivanie ? yes, >> we are experiencing trauma and that drives activity >> to overcome, etc, but also in this play we are >> acting, reflecting, and always ? above all - >> imagining and re-imagining (modelling etc) our world >> future. >> >> Julian >> >> *From:*> > on behalf >> of Andy Blunden > > >> *Reply-To:*"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" >> > > >> *Date:*Saturday, 25 April 2020 at 02:08 >> *To:*"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" >> > > >> *Subject:*[Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? >> >> Greg, the word is polysemic, as Mike said, but I >> agree with Michael that/perezhivaniya/are essentially >> collective experiences. As I say in the article, that >> COVID will be experienced differently in different >> countries, by different classes and social groups is >> an important part of this process. It does not >> detract it from its being a single experience. >> >> Huw, a "world subject" is emergent at this moment. It >> is implicit or "in-itself" but I look forward to the >> appearance of such a world subject, though who know >> how long and through what traumas we will pass before >> it is an actuality. Like WW2, the COVID pandemic part >> of its birth process. >> >> * https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/seminars/perezhivanie.htm__;!!Mih3wA!XP82Sp95CB9oMNBLZHUfIx2o1vh2230Ejyvp5QYESvRIHhKnxQdoi3JOZIGaMAg0thQung$ , >> Notes, >> links, excerpts, 2009 >> * https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Blunden_article*response.pdf__;Kw!!Mih3wA!XP82Sp95CB9oMNBLZHUfIx2o1vh2230Ejyvp5QYESvRIHhKnxQdoi3JOZIGaMAjGcGHusQ$ >> , >> MCA article 2016 >> * https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Coronavirus-pandemic.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!XP82Sp95CB9oMNBLZHUfIx2o1vh2230Ejyvp5QYESvRIHhKnxQdoi3JOZIGaMAjrETlooQ$ >> >> >> Andy >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> *Andy Blunden* >> Hegel for Social Movements >> >> Home Page >> >> >> On 25/04/2020 4:01 am, Greg Thompson wrote: >> >> I'm wondering about Andy's suggestion that >> covid-19 is a (or maybe "is creating a"?) world >> perezhivanie. That seems a really rich suggestion >> but I'm not sure how many of us on the list >> really understand what he means by this. >> >> Andy tends to just tell me to go read more and so >> I'm wondering if someone else might be willing to >> take a stab at explaining what he might mean. >> >> Also, as a critical intervention, I am wondering >> whether covid-19 is the "same" for everyone. We >> have folks in the U.S. who think it is basically >> just a typical flu that has been turned into a >> political tool to attack the current president. >> Or does that not matter for perezhivanie? >> >> (and just to be clear, my question is not whether >> or not this is true or right or beautiful to >> think this way; my question is whether or not >> this is how people are actually experiencing the >> world since I assume that this is what >> perezhivanie is supposed to be "getting at". Or >> am I misunderstanding perezhivanie?) >> >> So is there really a shared perezhivanie here? >> >> (Is The Problem of Age the place to look for >> answers?) >> >> But if no one wants to take this up (perhaps too >> much ink has been spilt over perezhivanie?), >> that's fine too. >> >> Cheers, >> >> greg >> >> -- >> >> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >> >> Assistant Professor >> >> Department of Anthropology >> >> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >> >> Brigham Young University >> >> Provo, UT 84602 >> >> WEBSITE: >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!XP82Sp95CB9oMNBLZHUfIx2o1vh2230Ejyvp5QYESvRIHhKnxQdoi3JOZIGaMAgHrudO8Q$ >> >> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!XP82Sp95CB9oMNBLZHUfIx2o1vh2230Ejyvp5QYESvRIHhKnxQdoi3JOZIGaMAhIPgVfYw$ >> >> >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200426/5ce70ca5/attachment.html From mpacker@cantab.net Sat Apr 25 18:03:57 2020 From: mpacker@cantab.net (Martin Packer) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2020 20:03:57 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? In-Reply-To: References: <7f661750-350f-9e76-d6b3-1598132af583@marxists.org> <1056380D-069C-40AE-934F-EA2A1212ACDB@manchester.ac.uk> <0E64BF76-A158-453E-B233-64D5E00625FA@cantab.net> <8DD6C766-811B-4B08-8B10-6ECA676FAA50@cantab.net> Message-ID: <369EA7C6-7EA0-43B0-91A0-63A99848FCF7@cantab.net> I was reacting to this, Andy https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.smh.com.au/national/prison-nursing-home-outbreaks-and-re-importations-the-greatest-risk-to-eradicating-coronavirus-experts-20200424-p54mst.html__;!!Mih3wA!XFj6xa7MfKZopz75DYrrcHSqPA3WSwQ92unPhMqXk3gchGKGOtobMR5zxcOBpfMrGnC29g$ Two leading epidemiologists fear outbreaks in prisons or nursing homes, and re-importations ? unwitting or malicious ? pose the greatest risks of any attempt to eradicate coronavirus in Australia. The federal government is pursuing a strategy of virus suppression, but as the numbers of new daily cases continue to fall, elimination seems increasingly enticing to many. Martin > On Apr 25, 2020, at 7:37 PM, Andy Blunden wrote: > > New Zealand's aim is eradication, leading to a full return to normal life behind a quarantine wall. > > Australia's aim is suppression. As it happens, we are likely to get to zero cases as fast as NZ, but the difference is that Australia is planning towards equipping ourselves with the Tracking App on everyone's phones, lots of test kits and thousands of people trained and prepared to test. It is assumed that whatever we do, there will be outbreaks, and you could get those waves of infection, and the capacity to return to normal life depends on the ability to contact-trace, test and quarantine with speed and accuracy. The infection rate is currently so low (about 12 a day in pop. of 25m) that we could go back to normal now, if the testing infrastructure was in place. Actually, the population is largely resisting the return to work at the moment. The teachers don't want all the kids back at school. > It is possible that Oz and NZ will share a quarantine zone until the vaccine is in use. > > Andy > Andy Blunden > Hegel for Social Movements > Home Page > On 26/04/2020 2:14 am, Martin Packer wrote: >> David, >> >> There is talk about the possible eradication of the virus in Australia and New Zealand, from what I have read. Eradication is difficult when no one has resistance, but not impossible. Other virus infections have been eradicated, as far as one can tell, such as smallpox. >> >> In Wuhan, where the infections started, which is a city of around 11 million people, less that 70,000 cases were reported. Even if that is vastly underreported by a factor of 10 it is less than 10%. And studies in California suggest that only 1 in 5 have been infected, of whom 60% have not experienced any symptoms. Only around 5% need hospitalization. >> >> Martin >> >> >>> On Apr 25, 2020, at 10:46 AM, David H Kirshner > wrote: >>> >>> Martin, >>> The scenario you sketched out is what I?d thought would/could happen, but the epidemiologists don?t ever talk about eradicating the virus, they just talk about slowing the spread so as not to overwhelm health care facilities. Eventually, everyone who can get it will get it. So a generation of older and weaker people will be adversely affected, many dying. It?s only in the next generation when most people have gotten it young that it will fade into the background, like the common cold. >>> David >>> >>> >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > On Behalf Of Martin Packer >>> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 7:42 AM >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? >>> >>> Julian, >>> >>> If no efforts are made to contain a virus it will move through a population in a single wave, infecting many people and then disappearing as no more potential hosts are available. >>> >>> If efforts to contain it ? lockdown ? are adequate there will be a single much smaller wave, followed again by elimination as hosts are not available. >>> >>> If containment is not effective ? if people don?t isolate sufficiently ? there may be a second wave when the containment is reduced. Or the first wave may not be controlled. >>> >>> As you say, each country is responding differently. Australia seems close to eliminating the virus after a single wave. The US and UK are somewhere between starting a second wave and still being in a poorly controlled first wave. Colombia seems to be still moving up its first wave. >>> >>> The behavior of a virus can be modeled, but only on the basis of assumptions about how people are going to behave. Since we cannot predict this behavior, we cannot even predict how the virus will or will not spread, let alone the political, economic and social consequences. >>> >>> To say this is not to be pessimistic; pessimism would be predicting a dire outcome. Rather, it highlights that the outcome lies in all our hands. >>> >>> Martin >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Apr 25, 2020, at 1:43 AM, Julian Williams > wrote: >>> >>> Andy/Greg >>> >>> Each nation state appears to be ?playing? the pandemic in different ways (eg China, Italy, Australia, NZ, Sweden, UK, USA,? check out attached report which comes from https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://pandemic.internationalsos.com/2019-ncov__;!!Mih3wA!XFj6xa7MfKZopz75DYrrcHSqPA3WSwQ92unPhMqXk3gchGKGOtobMR5zxcOBpfOdgf58Bw$ I get one of these reports every few days) while sometimes looking to other countries to see how their numbers are growing/falling (and mostly making a damn poor job of it). >>> >>> Before this all got going, the scientists already had a pretty good idea how a pandemic works, and even what needed to be done to prepare for it: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/revealed-uk-ministers-were-warned-last-year-of-risks-of-coronavirus-pandemic__;!!Mih3wA!XFj6xa7MfKZopz75DYrrcHSqPA3WSwQ92unPhMqXk3gchGKGOtobMR5zxcOBpfP9l5XdFg$ >>> And now we know a bit more than we did then. >>> >>> There is a prediction/warning there about a number of pandemic waves? >>> >>> In the second ?wave?, we ? the world subject-in-formation may have learnt more, maybe there will be fewer deaths? Maybe we will rescue WHO, maybe not (I won?t predict). But maybe the science community will be paying serious attention, and especially to its duty to the ?public good?. But there are some contradictory signs. In my own university we seem to be about to enter a new austerity, (implemented from the top by a failing leadership, led by a true academic, bio scientist no less!) >>> >>> What is clear is that the ?public? and its social movements are key to forcing each government to act, and that in almost all cases our leaders and rulers have followed along reluctantly ? even while the science and the pandemic plan was there. >>> >>> In the third and subsequent waves? I agree it?s not predictable: the outcomes will depend entirely on all of ?us?. >>> >>> And in the next ?big one?, the climate collapse? Maybe all this pandemic ?play? will have helped prepare us, we maybe will learn how to build the institutions, policies etc for the world?s ?public good? in time. I still have hope. >>> >>> I use Vygotsky-Leontiev?s idea of ?play? as the leading activity of the pre-schooler, as I find it complements the notion of world perezhivanie ? yes, we are experiencing trauma and that drives activity to overcome, etc, but also in this play we are acting, reflecting, and always ? above all - imagining and re-imagining (modelling etc) our world future. >>> >>> Julian >>> >>> >>> >>> From: > on behalf of Andy Blunden > >>> Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > >>> Date: Saturday, 25 April 2020 at 02:08 >>> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? >>> >>> Greg, the word is polysemic, as Mike said, but I agree with Michael that perezhivaniya are essentially collective experiences. As I say in the article, that COVID will be experienced differently in different countries, by different classes and social groups is an important part of this process. It does not detract it from its being a single experience. >>> Huw, a "world subject" is emergent at this moment. It is implicit or "in-itself" but I look forward to the appearance of such a world subject, though who know how long and through what traumas we will pass before it is an actuality. Like WW2, the COVID pandemic part of its birth process. >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/seminars/perezhivanie.htm__;!!Mih3wA!XFj6xa7MfKZopz75DYrrcHSqPA3WSwQ92unPhMqXk3gchGKGOtobMR5zxcOBpfOgD-X0DQ$ , Notes, links, excerpts, 2009 >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Blunden_article*response.pdf__;Kw!!Mih3wA!XFj6xa7MfKZopz75DYrrcHSqPA3WSwQ92unPhMqXk3gchGKGOtobMR5zxcOBpfMwKeHLfQ$ , MCA article 2016 >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Coronavirus-pandemic.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!XFj6xa7MfKZopz75DYrrcHSqPA3WSwQ92unPhMqXk3gchGKGOtobMR5zxcOBpfOddoWPsw$ >>> Andy >>> >>> Andy Blunden >>> Hegel for Social Movements >>> Home Page >>> On 25/04/2020 4:01 am, Greg Thompson wrote: >>> I'm wondering about Andy's suggestion that covid-19 is a (or maybe "is creating a"?) world perezhivanie. That seems a really rich suggestion but I'm not sure how many of us on the list really understand what he means by this. >>> >>> Andy tends to just tell me to go read more and so I'm wondering if someone else might be willing to take a stab at explaining what he might mean. >>> >>> Also, as a critical intervention, I am wondering whether covid-19 is the "same" for everyone. We have folks in the U.S. who think it is basically just a typical flu that has been turned into a political tool to attack the current president. Or does that not matter for perezhivanie? >>> >>> (and just to be clear, my question is not whether or not this is true or right or beautiful to think this way; my question is whether or not this is how people are actually experiencing the world since I assume that this is what perezhivanie is supposed to be "getting at". Or am I misunderstanding perezhivanie?) >>> >>> So is there really a shared perezhivanie here? >>> (Is The Problem of Age the place to look for answers?) >>> >>> But if no one wants to take this up (perhaps too much ink has been spilt over perezhivanie?), that's fine too. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> greg >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>> Assistant Professor >>> Department of Anthropology >>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >>> Brigham Young University >>> Provo, UT 84602 >>> WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!XFj6xa7MfKZopz75DYrrcHSqPA3WSwQ92unPhMqXk3gchGKGOtobMR5zxcOBpfNBzsLEIQ$ >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!XFj6xa7MfKZopz75DYrrcHSqPA3WSwQ92unPhMqXk3gchGKGOtobMR5zxcOBpfOuntVBQg$ >>> >>> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200425/cd80301a/attachment.html From andyb@marxists.org Sat Apr 25 18:19:12 2020 From: andyb@marxists.org (Andy Blunden) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2020 11:19:12 +1000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? In-Reply-To: <369EA7C6-7EA0-43B0-91A0-63A99848FCF7@cantab.net> References: <7f661750-350f-9e76-d6b3-1598132af583@marxists.org> <1056380D-069C-40AE-934F-EA2A1212ACDB@manchester.ac.uk> <0E64BF76-A158-453E-B233-64D5E00625FA@cantab.net> <8DD6C766-811B-4B08-8B10-6ECA676FAA50@cantab.net> <369EA7C6-7EA0-43B0-91A0-63A99848FCF7@cantab.net> Message-ID: Exactly. If you think you've eliminated it and just *one person* gets through the net with the virus, you have a whole country of 25m people without immunity and it doubles every 3 days. So the point is to be able to jump on every single case. That's why we don't here talk of *eradication* before everyone is vaccinated, Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ *Andy Blunden* Hegel for Social Movements Home Page On 26/04/2020 11:03 am, Martin Packer wrote: > I was reacting to this, Andy > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.smh.com.au/national/prison-nursing-home-outbreaks-and-re-importations-the-greatest-risk-to-eradicating-coronavirus-experts-20200424-p54mst.html__;!!Mih3wA!RumoRqh_imI3l8k14a-ZOV8G9j2p3_39l4wGZsdmD1AoF2iw1rYMV05Jp5-53Dd-DBdtOw$ > > > Two leading epidemiologists fear outbreaks in prisons or > nursing?homes, and re-importations ??unwitting or > malicious ? pose the greatest?risks of any attempt to > eradicate coronavirus in Australia. > > The?federal government is pursuing a strategy of virus > suppression, but as?the numbers of new daily?cases > continue to fall, elimination seems?increasingly enticing > to many. > > > Martin > > > >> On Apr 25, 2020, at 7:37 PM, Andy Blunden >> > wrote: >> >> New Zealand's aim is *eradication*, leading to a full >> return to normal life behind a quarantine wall. >> >> Australia's aim is *suppression*. As it happens, we are >> likely to get to zero cases as fast as NZ, but the >> difference is that Australia is planning towards >> equipping ourselves with the Tracking App on everyone's >> phones, lots of test kits and thousands of people trained >> and prepared to test. It is assumed that whatever we do, >> there will be outbreaks, and you could get those waves of >> infection, and the capacity to return to normal life >> depends on the ability to contact-trace, test and >> quarantine with speed and accuracy. The infection rate is >> currently so low (about 12 a day in pop. of 25m) that we >> could go back to normal now, if the testing >> infrastructure was in place. Actually, the population is >> largely resisting the return to work at the moment. The >> teachers don't want all the kids back at school. >> >> It is possible that Oz and NZ will share a quarantine >> zone until the vaccine is in use. >> >> Andy >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> *Andy Blunden* >> Hegel for Social Movements >> >> Home Page >> >> >> On 26/04/2020 2:14 am, Martin Packer wrote: >>> David, >>> >>> There is talk about the possible?eradication of the >>> virus in Australia and New Zealand, from what I have >>> read. Eradication is difficult when no one has >>> resistance, but not impossible. Other virus infections >>> have been eradicated, as far as one can tell, such as >>> smallpox. >>> >>> In Wuhan, where the infections started, which is a city >>> of around 11 million people, less that 70,000 cases were >>> reported. Even if that is vastly underreported by a >>> factor of 10 it is less than 10%. ?And studies in >>> California suggest that only 1 in 5 have been infected, >>> of whom 60% have not experienced any symptoms. Only >>> around 5% need hospitalization. >>> >>> Martin >>> >>> >>>> On Apr 25, 2020, at 10:46 AM, David H Kirshner >>>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> Martin, >>>> >>>> The scenario you sketched out is what I?d thought >>>> would/could happen, but the epidemiologists don?t ever >>>> talk about eradicating the virus, they just talk about >>>> slowing the spread so as not to overwhelm health care >>>> facilities. Eventually, everyone who can get it will >>>> get it. So a generation of older and weaker people will >>>> be adversely affected, many dying. It?s only in the >>>> next generation when most people have gotten it young >>>> that it will fade into the background, like the common >>>> cold. >>>> >>>> David >>>> >>>> *From:*xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>> >>>> >>> > *On Behalf Of >>>> *Martin Packer >>>> *Sent:* Saturday, April 25, 2020 7:42 AM >>>> *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>> > >>>> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? >>>> >>>> Julian, >>>> >>>> If no efforts are made to contain a virus it will move >>>> through a population in a single wave, infecting many >>>> people and then disappearing as no more potential hosts >>>> are available. >>>> >>>> If efforts to contain it ? lockdown ? are adequate >>>> there will be a single much smaller wave, followed >>>> again by elimination as hosts are not available. >>>> >>>> If containment is not effective ? if people don?t >>>> isolate sufficiently ? there may be a second wave when >>>> the containment is reduced. Or the first wave may not >>>> be controlled. >>>> >>>> As you say, each country is responding differently. >>>> Australia seems close to eliminating the virus after a >>>> single wave. The US and UK are somewhere between >>>> starting a second wave and still being in a poorly >>>> controlled first wave. Colombia seems to be still >>>> moving up its first wave. >>>> >>>> The behavior of a virus can be modeled, but only on the >>>> basis of assumptions about how people are going to >>>> behave. Since we cannot predict this behavior, we >>>> cannot even predict how the virus will or will not >>>> spread, let alone the political, economic and social >>>> consequences. >>>> >>>> To say this is not to be pessimistic; pessimism would >>>> be predicting a dire outcome. Rather, it highlights >>>> that the outcome lies in all our hands. >>>> >>>> Martin >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Apr 25, 2020, at 1:43 AM, Julian Williams >>>> >>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> Andy/Greg >>>> >>>> Each nation state appears to be ?playing? the >>>> pandemic in different ways (eg China, Italy, >>>> Australia, NZ, Sweden, UK, USA,? check out attached >>>> report which comes >>>> fromhttps://pandemic.internationalsos.com/2019-ncov >>>> ???I >>>> get one of these reports every few days) ?while >>>> sometimes looking to other countries to see how >>>> their numbers are growing/falling (and mostly >>>> making a damn poor job of it). >>>> >>>> Before this all got going, the scientists already >>>> had a pretty good idea how a pandemic works, and >>>> even what needed to be done to prepare for >>>> it:https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/revealed-uk-ministers-were-warned-last-year-of-risks-of-coronavirus-pandemic__;!!Mih3wA!RumoRqh_imI3l8k14a-ZOV8G9j2p3_39l4wGZsdmD1AoF2iw1rYMV05Jp5-53Dfufo-T-g$ >>>> >>>> >>>> And now we know a bit more than we did then. >>>> >>>> There is a prediction/warning there about a number >>>> of pandemic waves? >>>> >>>> In the second ?wave?, we ? the world >>>> subject-in-formation may have learnt more, maybe >>>> there will be fewer deaths? ?Maybe we will rescue >>>> WHO, maybe not (I won?t predict). But maybe the >>>> science community will be paying serious attention, >>>> and especially to its duty to the ?public good?. >>>> But there are some contradictory signs. In my own >>>> university we seem to be about to enter a new >>>> austerity, (implemented from the top by a failing >>>> leadership, led by a true academic, bio scientist >>>> no less!) >>>> >>>> What is clear is that the ?public? and its social >>>> movements are key to forcing each government to >>>> act, and that in almost all cases our leaders and >>>> rulers have followed along reluctantly ? even while >>>> the science and the pandemic plan was there. >>>> >>>> In the third and subsequent waves? I agree it?s not >>>> predictable: the outcomes will depend entirely on >>>> all of ?us?. >>>> >>>> And in the next ?big one?, the climate collapse? >>>> Maybe all this pandemic ?play? will have helped >>>> prepare us, we maybe will learn how to build the >>>> institutions, policies etc for the world?s ?public >>>> good? in time. I still have hope. >>>> >>>> I use Vygotsky-Leontiev?s idea of ?play? as the >>>> leading activity of the pre-schooler, as I find it >>>> complements the notion of world perezhivanie ? yes, >>>> we are experiencing trauma and that drives activity >>>> to overcome, etc, but also in this play we are >>>> acting, reflecting, and always ? above all - >>>> imagining and re-imagining (modelling etc) our >>>> world future. >>>> >>>> Julian >>>> >>>> *From:*>>> > on behalf >>>> of Andy Blunden >>> > >>>> *Reply-To:*"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" >>>> >>> > >>>> *Date:*Saturday, 25 April 2020 at 02:08 >>>> *To:*"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" >>>> >>> > >>>> *Subject:*[Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? >>>> >>>> Greg, the word is polysemic, as Mike said, but I >>>> agree with Michael that/perezhivaniya/are >>>> essentially collective experiences. As I say in the >>>> article, that COVID will be experienced differently >>>> in different countries, by different classes and >>>> social groups is an important part of this process. >>>> It does not detract it from its being a single >>>> experience. >>>> >>>> Huw, a "world subject" is emergent at this moment. >>>> It is implicit or "in-itself" but I look forward to >>>> the appearance of such a world subject, though who >>>> know how long and through what traumas we will pass >>>> before it is an actuality. Like WW2, the COVID >>>> pandemic part of its birth process. >>>> >>>> * https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/seminars/perezhivanie.htm__;!!Mih3wA!RumoRqh_imI3l8k14a-ZOV8G9j2p3_39l4wGZsdmD1AoF2iw1rYMV05Jp5-53Dds_36RQA$ , >>>> Notes, >>>> links, excerpts, 2009 >>>> * https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Blunden_article*response.pdf__;Kw!!Mih3wA!RumoRqh_imI3l8k14a-ZOV8G9j2p3_39l4wGZsdmD1AoF2iw1rYMV05Jp5-53DcJoDzXiA$ >>>> , >>>> MCA article 2016 >>>> * https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Coronavirus-pandemic.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!RumoRqh_imI3l8k14a-ZOV8G9j2p3_39l4wGZsdmD1AoF2iw1rYMV05Jp5-53Dfmdxajcg$ >>>> >>>> >>>> Andy >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> >>>> *Andy Blunden* >>>> Hegel for Social Movements >>>> >>>> Home Page >>>> >>>> >>>> On 25/04/2020 4:01 am, Greg Thompson wrote: >>>> >>>> I'm wondering about Andy's suggestion that >>>> covid-19 is a (or maybe "is creating a"?) world >>>> perezhivanie. That seems a really rich >>>> suggestion but I'm not sure how many of us on >>>> the list really understand what he means by this. >>>> >>>> Andy tends to just tell me to go read more and >>>> so I'm wondering if someone else might be >>>> willing to take a stab at explaining what he >>>> might mean. >>>> >>>> Also, as a critical intervention, I am >>>> wondering whether covid-19 is the "same" for >>>> everyone. We have folks in the U.S. who think >>>> it is basically just a typical flu that has >>>> been turned into a political tool to attack the >>>> current president. Or does that not matter for >>>> perezhivanie? >>>> >>>> (and just to be clear, my question is not >>>> whether or not this is true or right or >>>> beautiful to think this way; my question is >>>> whether or not this is how people are actually >>>> experiencing the world since I assume that this >>>> is what perezhivanie is supposed to be "getting >>>> at". Or am I misunderstanding perezhivanie?) >>>> >>>> So is there really a shared perezhivanie here? >>>> >>>> (Is The Problem of Age the place to look for >>>> answers?) >>>> >>>> But if no one wants to take this up (perhaps >>>> too much ink has been spilt over >>>> perezhivanie?), that's fine too. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> >>>> greg >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>>> >>>> Assistant Professor >>>> >>>> Department of Anthropology >>>> >>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >>>> >>>> Brigham Young University >>>> >>>> Provo, UT 84602 >>>> >>>> WEBSITE: >>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!RumoRqh_imI3l8k14a-ZOV8G9j2p3_39l4wGZsdmD1AoF2iw1rYMV05Jp5-53DeZRYoDrg$ >>>> >>>> >>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!RumoRqh_imI3l8k14a-ZOV8G9j2p3_39l4wGZsdmD1AoF2iw1rYMV05Jp5-53DeZvtcNFQ$ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200426/f0da5835/attachment.html From greg.a.thompson@gmail.com Sat Apr 25 19:56:32 2020 From: greg.a.thompson@gmail.com (Greg Thompson) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2020 20:56:32 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? In-Reply-To: References: <7f661750-350f-9e76-d6b3-1598132af583@marxists.org> <1056380D-069C-40AE-934F-EA2A1212ACDB@manchester.ac.uk> <0E64BF76-A158-453E-B233-64D5E00625FA@cantab.net> <8DD6C766-811B-4B08-8B10-6ECA676FAA50@cantab.net> <369EA7C6-7EA0-43B0-91A0-63A99848FCF7@cantab.net> Message-ID: Andy, I wish I could give an update as precise as you did about what the plans are here in the U.S. but it's the Wild West here and nobody knows what our government's plan is or even if there is one. One day it's all up to the governors of individual states. The next it's not. Then it is. Then the governors are being too restrictive and state lock-downs are government overreach (like Hitler you know). Then states governors are opening too soon. Then there's a cure on the horizon. Then he was just being joking. (and that's just what comes from the orange haired fellow in the White House). I can't imagine that cell phone tracking will go anywhere in the U.S. It seems to be a great solution and have worked great in South Korea but Hitler, you know (you think I'm joking? What's that great libertarian saying? Live free or die. That about sums it up.) Not seeing any world subject formation happening here, not even one in the making. Frankly I'd say that I'm seeing quite the opposite - even further divisions into "national subjects" - even sub-national subjects (e.g., differentiation by race and class and political party here in the U.S. - radical political divisions have developed like I've not seen in my lifetime). That isn't to say that there aren't great possibilities for communality and universality in this historical moment but I'm just not seeing that potential being realized here in the U.S. But maybe this is just an American phenomenon and the rest of the world is coming together as a result of this worldwide pandemic? -greg On Sat, Apr 25, 2020 at 7:22 PM Andy Blunden wrote: > Exactly. If you think you've eliminated it and just *one person* gets > through the net with the virus, you have a whole country of 25m people > without immunity and it doubles every 3 days. So the point is to be able to > jump on every single case. That's why we don't here talk of *eradication* > before everyone is vaccinated, > > Andy > ------------------------------ > *Andy Blunden* > Hegel for Social Movements > > Home Page > > On 26/04/2020 11:03 am, Martin Packer wrote: > > I was reacting to this, Andy > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.smh.com.au/national/prison-nursing-home-outbreaks-and-re-importations-the-greatest-risk-to-eradicating-coronavirus-experts-20200424-p54mst.html__;!!Mih3wA!RpVBIng2RGUdYKVd3WA1Hlf0WV4R4vcO4srvtehs3fMuytJK02EQ9VvrTpLyrowK0o0B4w$ > > > Two leading epidemiologists fear outbreaks in prisons or nursing homes, > and re-importations ? unwitting or malicious ? pose the greatest risks of > any attempt to eradicate coronavirus in Australia. > > The federal government is pursuing a strategy of virus suppression, but > as the numbers of new daily cases continue to fall, elimination > seems increasingly enticing to many. > > > Martin > > > > On Apr 25, 2020, at 7:37 PM, Andy Blunden wrote: > > New Zealand's aim is *eradication*, leading to a full return to normal > life behind a quarantine wall. > > Australia's aim is *suppression*. As it happens, we are likely to get to > zero cases as fast as NZ, but the difference is that Australia is planning > towards equipping ourselves with the Tracking App on everyone's phones, > lots of test kits and thousands of people trained and prepared to test. It > is assumed that whatever we do, there will be outbreaks, and you could get > those waves of infection, and the capacity to return to normal life depends > on the ability to contact-trace, test and quarantine with speed and > accuracy. The infection rate is currently so low (about 12 a day in pop. of > 25m) that we could go back to normal now, if the testing infrastructure was > in place. Actually, the population is largely resisting the return to work > at the moment. The teachers don't want all the kids back at school. > > It is possible that Oz and NZ will share a quarantine zone until the > vaccine is in use. > > Andy > ------------------------------ > *Andy Blunden* > Hegel for Social Movements > > Home Page > > On 26/04/2020 2:14 am, Martin Packer wrote: > > David, > > There is talk about the possible eradication of the virus in Australia and > New Zealand, from what I have read. Eradication is difficult when no one > has resistance, but not impossible. Other virus infections have been > eradicated, as far as one can tell, such as smallpox. > > In Wuhan, where the infections started, which is a city of around 11 > million people, less that 70,000 cases were reported. Even if that is > vastly underreported by a factor of 10 it is less than 10%. And studies in > California suggest that only 1 in 5 have been infected, of whom 60% have > not experienced any symptoms. Only around 5% need hospitalization. > > Martin > > > On Apr 25, 2020, at 10:46 AM, David H Kirshner wrote: > > Martin, > > The scenario you sketched out is what I?d thought would/could happen, but > the epidemiologists don?t ever talk about eradicating the virus, they just > talk about slowing the spread so as not to overwhelm health care > facilities. Eventually, everyone who can get it will get it. So a > generation of older and weaker people will be adversely affected, many > dying. It?s only in the next generation when most people have gotten it > young that it will fade into the background, like the common cold. > > David > > > > > > *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu *On > Behalf Of *Martin Packer > *Sent:* Saturday, April 25, 2020 7:42 AM > *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? > > > > Julian, > > > > If no efforts are made to contain a virus it will move through a > population in a single wave, infecting many people and then disappearing as > no more potential hosts are available. > > > > If efforts to contain it ? lockdown ? are adequate there will be a single > much smaller wave, followed again by elimination as hosts are not available. > > > > If containment is not effective ? if people don?t isolate sufficiently ? > there may be a second wave when the containment is reduced. Or the first > wave may not be controlled. > > > > As you say, each country is responding differently. Australia seems close > to eliminating the virus after a single wave. The US and UK are somewhere > between starting a second wave and still being in a poorly controlled first > wave. Colombia seems to be still moving up its first wave. > > > > The behavior of a virus can be modeled, but only on the basis of > assumptions about how people are going to behave. Since we cannot predict > this behavior, we cannot even predict how the virus will or will not > spread, let alone the political, economic and social consequences. > > > > To say this is not to be pessimistic; pessimism would be predicting a dire > outcome. Rather, it highlights that the outcome lies in all our hands. > > > > Martin > > > > > > > > On Apr 25, 2020, at 1:43 AM, Julian Williams < > julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk> wrote: > > > > Andy/Greg > > > > Each nation state appears to be ?playing? the pandemic in different ways > (eg China, Italy, Australia, NZ, Sweden, UK, USA,? check out attached > report which comes from https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://pandemic.internationalsos.com/2019-ncov__;!!Mih3wA!RpVBIng2RGUdYKVd3WA1Hlf0WV4R4vcO4srvtehs3fMuytJK02EQ9VvrTpLyroweKBb5TQ$ > > I get one of these reports every few days) while sometimes looking > to other countries to see how their numbers are growing/falling (and mostly > making a damn poor job of it). > > > > Before this all got going, the scientists already had a pretty good idea > how a pandemic works, and even what needed to be done to prepare for it: > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/revealed-uk-ministers-were-warned-last-year-of-risks-of-coronavirus-pandemic__;!!Mih3wA!RpVBIng2RGUdYKVd3WA1Hlf0WV4R4vcO4srvtehs3fMuytJK02EQ9VvrTpLyroyoaq4CIg$ > > > And now we know a bit more than we did then. > > > > There is a prediction/warning there about a number of pandemic waves? > > > > In the second ?wave?, we ? the world subject-in-formation may have learnt > more, maybe there will be fewer deaths? Maybe we will rescue WHO, maybe > not (I won?t predict). But maybe the science community will be paying > serious attention, and especially to its duty to the ?public good?. But > there are some contradictory signs. In my own university we seem to be > about to enter a new austerity, (implemented from the top by a failing > leadership, led by a true academic, bio scientist no less!) > > > > What is clear is that the ?public? and its social movements are key to > forcing each government to act, and that in almost all cases our leaders > and rulers have followed along reluctantly ? even while the science and the > pandemic plan was there. > > > > In the third and subsequent waves? I agree it?s not predictable: the > outcomes will depend entirely on all of ?us?. > > > > And in the next ?big one?, the climate collapse? Maybe all this pandemic > ?play? will have helped prepare us, we maybe will learn how to build the > institutions, policies etc for the world?s ?public good? in time. I still > have hope. > > > > I use Vygotsky-Leontiev?s idea of ?play? as the leading activity of the > pre-schooler, as I find it complements the notion of world perezhivanie ? > yes, we are experiencing trauma and that drives activity to overcome, etc, > but also in this play we are acting, reflecting, and always ? above all - > imagining and re-imagining (modelling etc) our world future. > > > > Julian > > > > > > > > *From: * on behalf of Andy Blunden < > andyb@marxists.org> > *Reply-To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > *Date: *Saturday, 25 April 2020 at 02:08 > *To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? > > > > Greg, the word is polysemic, as Mike said, but I agree with Michael that > *perezhivaniya* are essentially collective experiences. As I say in the > article, that COVID will be experienced differently in different countries, > by different classes and social groups is an important part of this > process. It does not detract it from its being a single experience. > > Huw, a "world subject" is emergent at this moment. It is implicit or > "in-itself" but I look forward to the appearance of such a world subject, > though who know how long and through what traumas we will pass before it is > an actuality. Like WW2, the COVID pandemic part of its birth process. > > - https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/seminars/perezhivanie.htm__;!!Mih3wA!RpVBIng2RGUdYKVd3WA1Hlf0WV4R4vcO4srvtehs3fMuytJK02EQ9VvrTpLyroxxkScsfg$ , > > Notes, links, excerpts, 2009 > - > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Blunden_article*response.pdf__;Kw!!Mih3wA!RpVBIng2RGUdYKVd3WA1Hlf0WV4R4vcO4srvtehs3fMuytJK02EQ9VvrTpLyrozQDxzq6A$ > , > MCA article 2016 > - > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Coronavirus-pandemic.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!RpVBIng2RGUdYKVd3WA1Hlf0WV4R4vcO4srvtehs3fMuytJK02EQ9VvrTpLyroxpR1iEiQ$ > > > Andy > > > ------------------------------ > > *Andy Blunden* > Hegel for Social Movements > > Home Page > > > On 25/04/2020 4:01 am, Greg Thompson wrote: > > I'm wondering about Andy's suggestion that covid-19 is a (or maybe "is > creating a"?) world perezhivanie. That seems a really rich suggestion but > I'm not sure how many of us on the list really understand what he means by > this. > > > > Andy tends to just tell me to go read more and so I'm wondering if someone > else might be willing to take a stab at explaining what he might mean. > > > > Also, as a critical intervention, I am wondering whether covid-19 is the > "same" for everyone. We have folks in the U.S. who think it is basically > just a typical flu that has been turned into a political tool to attack the > current president. Or does that not matter for perezhivanie? > > > > (and just to be clear, my question is not whether or not this is true or > right or beautiful to think this way; my question is whether or not this is > how people are actually experiencing the world since I assume that this is > what perezhivanie is supposed to be "getting at". Or am I misunderstanding > perezhivanie?) > > > > So is there really a shared perezhivanie here? > > (Is The Problem of Age the place to look for answers?) > > > > But if no one wants to take this up (perhaps too much ink has been spilt > over perezhivanie?), that's fine too. > > > > Cheers, > > greg > > > > > > -- > > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > > Assistant Professor > > Department of Anthropology > > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > > Brigham Young University > > Provo, UT 84602 > > WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!RpVBIng2RGUdYKVd3WA1Hlf0WV4R4vcO4srvtehs3fMuytJK02EQ9VvrTpLyroxaeMQEpA$ > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!RpVBIng2RGUdYKVd3WA1Hlf0WV4R4vcO4srvtehs3fMuytJK02EQ9VvrTpLyrox6lXxzbA$ > > > > > > > > > -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!RpVBIng2RGUdYKVd3WA1Hlf0WV4R4vcO4srvtehs3fMuytJK02EQ9VvrTpLyroxaeMQEpA$ https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!RpVBIng2RGUdYKVd3WA1Hlf0WV4R4vcO4srvtehs3fMuytJK02EQ9VvrTpLyrox6lXxzbA$ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200425/51e789f4/attachment-0001.html From andyb@marxists.org Sat Apr 25 21:15:48 2020 From: andyb@marxists.org (Andy Blunden) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2020 14:15:48 +1000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? In-Reply-To: References: <7f661750-350f-9e76-d6b3-1598132af583@marxists.org> <1056380D-069C-40AE-934F-EA2A1212ACDB@manchester.ac.uk> <0E64BF76-A158-453E-B233-64D5E00625FA@cantab.net> <8DD6C766-811B-4B08-8B10-6ECA676FAA50@cantab.net> <369EA7C6-7EA0-43B0-91A0-63A99848FCF7@cantab.net> Message-ID: <65e7127b-57da-5b52-f12c-b7a75e21f6f1@marxists.org> I think thesis of the /emergence/ of a world subject is linked to the end of the USA as the embodiment of that subjectivity, Greg. I imagine there will have to be a lot of local building from the ground up everywhere. It will be combined construction and destruction, I guess. We still have the climate crisis to deal with, too. It will not be a uniform process though. And the truce will be over here in Oz as soon as the government tries to move back to 'normal', i.e., the status quo ante with tax cuts for the rich, cutting unemployment in half, subsidising coal billionaires and harassing the unemployed. We shall see, I couldn't imagine the tracking app. getting anywhere in the US, and honestly, I couldn't have imagined it taking off here in Oz a few months ago. It is due to be launched this afternoon and the polls show 45% have said they will download it and 28% say they won't. Who would have guessed, eh? An Anglophone liberal democracy accepting having a government app. tracking their interactions with other people!? But the alternative is living with the pandemic. Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ *Andy Blunden* Hegel for Social Movements Home Page On 26/04/2020 12:56 pm, Greg Thompson wrote: > Andy, > > I wish I could give an update as precise as you did about > what the plans are here in the U.S. but it's the Wild West > here and nobody knows what our government's plan is or > even if there is one. One day it's all up to the governors > of individual states. The next it's not. Then it is. Then > the?governors are being too restrictive and state > lock-downs are government overreach (like Hitler you > know). Then states governors are opening too soon. Then > there's a cure on the horizon. Then he was just being > joking. (and that's just what comes from the orange haired > fellow in the White House). > > I can't imagine that cell phone tracking will go anywhere > in the U.S. It seems to be a great solution and have > worked great in South Korea but Hitler, you know (you > think I'm joking? What's that great libertarian saying? > Live free or die. That about sums it up.) > > Not seeing any world subject formation happening here, not > even one in the making. Frankly I'd say that I'm seeing > quite the opposite - even further divisions into "national > subjects" - even sub-national subjects (e.g., > differentiation by race and class and political party here > in the U.S. - radical political divisions have developed > like I've not seen in my lifetime). > > That isn't to say that there aren't great possibilities > for communality and universality in this historical moment > but I'm just not seeing that potential being realized here > in the U.S. But maybe this is just an American phenomenon > and the rest of the world is coming together as a result > of this worldwide pandemic? > > -greg > > On Sat, Apr 25, 2020 at 7:22 PM Andy Blunden > > wrote: > > Exactly. If you think you've eliminated it and just > *one person* gets through the net with the virus, you > have a whole country of 25m people without immunity > and it doubles every 3 days. So the point is to be > able to jump on every single case. That's why we don't > here talk of *eradication* before everyone is vaccinated, > > Andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > *Andy Blunden* > Hegel for Social Movements > > Home Page > > > On 26/04/2020 11:03 am, Martin Packer wrote: >> I was reacting to this, Andy >> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.smh.com.au/national/prison-nursing-home-outbreaks-and-re-importations-the-greatest-risk-to-eradicating-coronavirus-experts-20200424-p54mst.html__;!!Mih3wA!XHPy70F_4y35yvBsqRNzz_eK8_1sKiFQgRO8Xq0nwee25HDNdswf80DYVjjDSAl8tgBT6g$ >> >> >> Two leading epidemiologists fear outbreaks in prisons >> or nursing?homes, and re-importations ??unwitting or >> malicious ? pose the greatest?risks of any attempt to >> eradicate coronavirus in Australia. >> >> The?federal government is pursuing a strategy of >> virus suppression, but as?the numbers of new >> daily?cases continue to fall, elimination >> seems?increasingly enticing to many. >> >> >> Martin >> >> >> >>> On Apr 25, 2020, at 7:37 PM, Andy Blunden >>> > wrote: >>> >>> New Zealand's aim is *eradication*, leading to a >>> full return to normal life behind a quarantine wall. >>> >>> Australia's aim is *suppression*. As it happens, we >>> are likely to get to zero cases as fast as NZ, but >>> the difference is that Australia is planning towards >>> equipping ourselves with the Tracking App on >>> everyone's phones, lots of test kits and thousands >>> of people trained and prepared to test. It is >>> assumed that whatever we do, there will be >>> outbreaks, and you could get those waves of >>> infection, and the capacity to return to normal life >>> depends on the ability to contact-trace, test and >>> quarantine with speed and accuracy. The infection >>> rate is currently so low (about 12 a day in pop. of >>> 25m) that we could go back to normal now, if the >>> testing infrastructure was in place. Actually, the >>> population is largely resisting the return to work >>> at the moment. The teachers don't want all the kids >>> back at school. >>> >>> It is possible that Oz and NZ will share a >>> quarantine zone until the vaccine is in use. >>> >>> Andy >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> *Andy Blunden* >>> Hegel for Social Movements >>> >>> Home Page >>> >>> >>> On 26/04/2020 2:14 am, Martin Packer wrote: >>>> David, >>>> >>>> There is talk about the possible?eradication of the >>>> virus in Australia and New Zealand, from what I >>>> have read. Eradication is difficult when no one has >>>> resistance, but not impossible. Other virus >>>> infections have been eradicated, as far as one can >>>> tell, such as smallpox. >>>> >>>> In Wuhan, where the infections started, which is a >>>> city of around 11 million people, less that 70,000 >>>> cases were reported. Even if that is vastly >>>> underreported by a factor of 10 it is less than >>>> 10%.? And studies in California suggest that only 1 >>>> in 5 have been infected, of whom 60% have not >>>> experienced any symptoms. Only around 5% need >>>> hospitalization. >>>> >>>> Martin >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Apr 25, 2020, at 10:46 AM, David H Kirshner >>>>> > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Martin, >>>>> >>>>> The scenario you sketched out is what I?d thought >>>>> would/could happen, but the epidemiologists don?t >>>>> ever talk about eradicating the virus, they just >>>>> talk about slowing the spread so as not to >>>>> overwhelm health care facilities. Eventually, >>>>> everyone who can get it will get it. So a >>>>> generation of older and weaker people will be >>>>> adversely affected, many dying. It?s only in the >>>>> next generation when most people have gotten it >>>>> young that it will fade into the background, like >>>>> the common cold. >>>>> >>>>> David >>>>> >>>>> *From:*xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>>> >>>>> >>>> > *On >>>>> Behalf Of *Martin Packer >>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, April 25, 2020 7:42 AM >>>>> *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>> >>>> > >>>>> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? >>>>> >>>>> Julian, >>>>> >>>>> If no efforts are made to contain a virus it will >>>>> move through a population in a single wave, >>>>> infecting many people and then disappearing as no >>>>> more potential hosts are available. >>>>> >>>>> If efforts to contain it ? lockdown ? are adequate >>>>> there will be a single much smaller wave, followed >>>>> again by elimination as hosts are not available. >>>>> >>>>> If containment is not effective ? if people don?t >>>>> isolate sufficiently ? there may be a second wave >>>>> when the containment is reduced. Or the first wave >>>>> may not be controlled. >>>>> >>>>> As you say, each country is responding >>>>> differently. Australia seems close to eliminating >>>>> the virus after a single wave. The US and UK are >>>>> somewhere between starting a second wave and still >>>>> being in a poorly controlled first wave. Colombia >>>>> seems to be still moving up its first wave. >>>>> >>>>> The behavior of a virus can be modeled, but only >>>>> on the basis of assumptions about how people are >>>>> going to behave. Since we cannot predict this >>>>> behavior, we cannot even predict how the virus >>>>> will or will not spread, let alone the political, >>>>> economic and social consequences. >>>>> >>>>> To say this is not to be pessimistic; pessimism >>>>> would be predicting a dire outcome. Rather, it >>>>> highlights that the outcome lies in all our hands. >>>>> >>>>> Martin >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 25, 2020, at 1:43 AM, Julian Williams >>>>> >>>> > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Andy/Greg >>>>> >>>>> Each nation state appears to be ?playing? the >>>>> pandemic in different ways (eg China, Italy, >>>>> Australia, NZ, Sweden, UK, USA,? check out >>>>> attached report which comes >>>>> fromhttps://pandemic.internationalsos.com/2019-ncov >>>>> ???I >>>>> get one of these reports every few days) >>>>> ?while sometimes looking to other countries to >>>>> see how their numbers are growing/falling (and >>>>> mostly making a damn poor job of it). >>>>> >>>>> Before this all got going, the scientists >>>>> already had a pretty good idea how a pandemic >>>>> works, and even what needed to be done to >>>>> prepare for >>>>> it:https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/revealed-uk-ministers-were-warned-last-year-of-risks-of-coronavirus-pandemic__;!!Mih3wA!XHPy70F_4y35yvBsqRNzz_eK8_1sKiFQgRO8Xq0nwee25HDNdswf80DYVjjDSAmHqBtEWg$ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> And now we know a bit more than we did then. >>>>> >>>>> There is a prediction/warning there about a >>>>> number of pandemic waves? >>>>> >>>>> In the second ?wave?, we ? the world >>>>> subject-in-formation may have learnt more, >>>>> maybe there will be fewer deaths?? Maybe we >>>>> will rescue WHO, maybe not (I won?t predict). >>>>> But maybe the science community will be paying >>>>> serious attention, and especially to its duty >>>>> to the ?public good?. But there are some >>>>> contradictory signs. In my own university we >>>>> seem to be about to enter a new austerity, >>>>> (implemented from the top by a failing >>>>> leadership, led by a true academic, bio >>>>> scientist no less!) >>>>> >>>>> What is clear is that the ?public? and its >>>>> social movements are key to forcing each >>>>> government to act, and that in almost all >>>>> cases our leaders and rulers have followed >>>>> along reluctantly ? even while the science and >>>>> the pandemic plan was there. >>>>> >>>>> In the third and subsequent waves? I agree >>>>> it?s not predictable: the outcomes will depend >>>>> entirely on all of ?us?. >>>>> >>>>> And in the next ?big one?, the climate >>>>> collapse? Maybe all this pandemic ?play? will >>>>> have helped prepare us, we maybe will learn >>>>> how to build the institutions, policies etc >>>>> for the world?s ?public good? in time. I still >>>>> have hope. >>>>> >>>>> I use Vygotsky-Leontiev?s idea of ?play? as >>>>> the leading activity of the pre-schooler, as I >>>>> find it complements the notion of world >>>>> perezhivanie ? yes, we are experiencing trauma >>>>> and that drives activity to overcome, etc, but >>>>> also in this play we are acting, reflecting, >>>>> and always ? above all - imagining and >>>>> re-imagining (modelling etc) our world future. >>>>> >>>>> Julian >>>>> >>>>> *From:*>>>> > on >>>>> behalf of Andy Blunden >>>> > >>>>> *Reply-To:*"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" >>>>> >>>> > >>>>> *Date:*Saturday, 25 April 2020 at 02:08 >>>>> *To:*"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" >>>>> >>>> > >>>>> *Subject:*[Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World >>>>> Perezhivanie? >>>>> >>>>> Greg, the word is polysemic, as Mike said, but >>>>> I agree with Michael that/perezhivaniya/are >>>>> essentially collective experiences. As I say >>>>> in the article, that COVID will be experienced >>>>> differently in different countries, by >>>>> different classes and social groups is an >>>>> important part of this process. It does not >>>>> detract it from its being a single experience. >>>>> >>>>> Huw, a "world subject" is emergent at this >>>>> moment. It is implicit or "in-itself" but I >>>>> look forward to the appearance of such a world >>>>> subject, though who know how long and through >>>>> what traumas we will pass before it is an >>>>> actuality. Like WW2, the COVID pandemic part >>>>> of its birth process. >>>>> >>>>> * https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/seminars/perezhivanie.htm__;!!Mih3wA!XHPy70F_4y35yvBsqRNzz_eK8_1sKiFQgRO8Xq0nwee25HDNdswf80DYVjjDSAlfrY20dw$ , >>>>> Notes, >>>>> links, excerpts, 2009 >>>>> * https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Blunden_article*response.pdf__;Kw!!Mih3wA!XHPy70F_4y35yvBsqRNzz_eK8_1sKiFQgRO8Xq0nwee25HDNdswf80DYVjjDSAkuFTttVg$ >>>>> , >>>>> MCA article 2016 >>>>> * https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Coronavirus-pandemic.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!XHPy70F_4y35yvBsqRNzz_eK8_1sKiFQgRO8Xq0nwee25HDNdswf80DYVjjDSAkRDLSrBw$ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Andy >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> *Andy Blunden* >>>>> Hegel for Social Movements >>>>> >>>>> Home Page >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 25/04/2020 4:01 am, Greg Thompson wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I'm wondering about Andy's suggestion that >>>>> covid-19 is a (or maybe "is creating a"?) >>>>> world perezhivanie. That seems a really >>>>> rich suggestion but I'm not sure how many >>>>> of us on the list really understand what >>>>> he means by this. >>>>> >>>>> Andy tends to just tell me to go read more >>>>> and so I'm wondering if someone else might >>>>> be willing to take a stab at explaining >>>>> what he might mean. >>>>> >>>>> Also, as a critical intervention, I am >>>>> wondering whether covid-19 is the "same" >>>>> for everyone. We have folks in the U.S. >>>>> who think it is basically just a typical >>>>> flu that has been turned into a political >>>>> tool to attack the current president. Or >>>>> does that not matter for perezhivanie? >>>>> >>>>> (and just to be clear, my question is not >>>>> whether or not this is true or right or >>>>> beautiful to think this way; my question >>>>> is whether or not this is how people are >>>>> actually experiencing the world since I >>>>> assume that this is what perezhivanie is >>>>> supposed to be "getting at". Or am I >>>>> misunderstanding perezhivanie?) >>>>> >>>>> So is there really a shared perezhivanie here? >>>>> >>>>> (Is The Problem of Age the place to look >>>>> for answers?) >>>>> >>>>> But if no one wants to take this up >>>>> (perhaps too much ink has been spilt over >>>>> perezhivanie?), that's fine too. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> >>>>> greg >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>>>> >>>>> Assistant Professor >>>>> >>>>> Department of Anthropology >>>>> >>>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >>>>> >>>>> Brigham Young University >>>>> >>>>> Provo, UT 84602 >>>>> >>>>> WEBSITE: >>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!XHPy70F_4y35yvBsqRNzz_eK8_1sKiFQgRO8Xq0nwee25HDNdswf80DYVjjDSAm5GpW4EA$ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!XHPy70F_4y35yvBsqRNzz_eK8_1sKiFQgRO8Xq0nwee25HDNdswf80DYVjjDSAneR7pLog$ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >> > > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!XHPy70F_4y35yvBsqRNzz_eK8_1sKiFQgRO8Xq0nwee25HDNdswf80DYVjjDSAm5GpW4EA$ > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!XHPy70F_4y35yvBsqRNzz_eK8_1sKiFQgRO8Xq0nwee25HDNdswf80DYVjjDSAneR7pLog$ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200426/86dcd197/attachment.html From derekpatton19@gmail.com Sat Apr 25 22:21:50 2020 From: derekpatton19@gmail.com (Derek Worley Patton) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2020 05:21:50 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? In-Reply-To: <8DD6C766-811B-4B08-8B10-6ECA676FAA50@cantab.net> References: <7f661750-350f-9e76-d6b3-1598132af583@marxists.org> <1056380D-069C-40AE-934F-EA2A1212ACDB@manchester.ac.uk> <0E64BF76-A158-453E-B233-64D5E00625FA@cantab.net> , <8DD6C766-811B-4B08-8B10-6ECA676FAA50@cantab.net> Message-ID: Hi Martin, I rarely comment, but as to New Zealand, our prime minister and community health leader who is a community health expert and pointedly takes into consider the physical, mental, community and economic health (and other science advisors) all being of one mind (a Unity of thought, understanding and action) blessings to be thankful for, have both explained we are trying to ?eliminate? the virus, which they explain is not the same as ?eradicate?. The difference being we eliminate the transmission by quick identifying, tracking contacts, testing them, and treating rapidly. We can only maintain that by guarding the borders by putting everyone coming into the country into 2 weeks isolation in specially monitored hotels and motels. The virus is not eradicated in the sense that small pox is (not taking into account weapons or government labs keeping sample just in case to defend ourselves (we hope of course). Small point. But I think New Zealand is succeeding because of being somewhat of one mind, and one united response trained by other events. Here in Christchurch we had some big killer Quakes, then 20,000 after shocks over 3 to 5 years. We have learned that little can be trusted including the earth, insurance companies, government beauracracies etc. What we do know we trust is that our neighbours (most of them) will be generous, kind and trustworthy in an emergency. Note our response to the Mosque massacre, as a city and as a nation. New Zealand, from my perspective as an American Quaker militant pacifist 1960s radical and having lived in Micronesia, Taiwan, China, Malaysia, Australia and visiting and work in Indonesia, Thailand and Kenya, is that NZ?s population has taken on a lot of Maori and Pacific Islander culture. They also think they are too far from the original European homes (UK particularly) to depend on that, and therefore will try to solve things themselves as a first reaction. Collectively, they think and act like a big spread out village and are fiercely defensive of their fair play. This is of course very hopefully the kind of national flexible and cooperative mindset that leads to cooperative culture change in the most useful direction. Kind regards, derek Dr Derek W Patton ??? M.Ed(Child & Family Psychology), PGDip, PhD Child & Family Psychologist, registered and practicing New Zealand Melbourne Graduate School of Education (PhD and Lecturer - 2009-2015) Honorary Fellow, research (2015 - 2020) From: Martin Packer Sent: Sunday, 26 April 2020 4:16 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? David, There is talk about the possible eradication of the virus in Australia and New Zealand, from what I have read. Eradication is difficult when no one has resistance, but not impossible. Other virus infections have been eradicated, as far as one can tell, such as smallpox. In Wuhan, where the infections started, which is a city of around 11 million people, less that 70,000 cases were reported. Even if that is vastly underreported by a factor of 10 it is less than 10%. And studies in California suggest that only 1 in 5 have been infected, of whom 60% have not experienced any symptoms. Only around 5% need hospitalization. Martin On Apr 25, 2020, at 10:46 AM, David H Kirshner > wrote: Martin, The scenario you sketched out is what I?d thought would/could happen, but the epidemiologists don?t ever talk about eradicating the virus, they just talk about slowing the spread so as not to overwhelm health care facilities. Eventually, everyone who can get it will get it. So a generation of older and weaker people will be adversely affected, many dying. It?s only in the next generation when most people have gotten it young that it will fade into the background, like the common cold. David From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > On Behalf Of Martin Packer Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 7:42 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? Julian, If no efforts are made to contain a virus it will move through a population in a single wave, infecting many people and then disappearing as no more potential hosts are available. If efforts to contain it ? lockdown ? are adequate there will be a single much smaller wave, followed again by elimination as hosts are not available. If containment is not effective ? if people don?t isolate sufficiently ? there may be a second wave when the containment is reduced. Or the first wave may not be controlled. As you say, each country is responding differently. Australia seems close to eliminating the virus after a single wave. The US and UK are somewhere between starting a second wave and still being in a poorly controlled first wave. Colombia seems to be still moving up its first wave. The behavior of a virus can be modeled, but only on the basis of assumptions about how people are going to behave. Since we cannot predict this behavior, we cannot even predict how the virus will or will not spread, let alone the political, economic and social consequences. To say this is not to be pessimistic; pessimism would be predicting a dire outcome. Rather, it highlights that the outcome lies in all our hands. Martin On Apr 25, 2020, at 1:43 AM, Julian Williams > wrote: Andy/Greg Each nation state appears to be ?playing? the pandemic in different ways (eg China, Italy, Australia, NZ, Sweden, UK, USA,? check out attached report which comes from https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://pandemic.internationalsos.com/2019-ncov__;!!Mih3wA!Q4qvi7b0Y3sDL-RrwL4yMtjalfXBsHEzLx83vWCt1cJ4KegxH5Zcl-jR8NaDNPjSmB7uHg$ I get one of these reports every few days) while sometimes looking to other countries to see how their numbers are growing/falling (and mostly making a damn poor job of it). Before this all got going, the scientists already had a pretty good idea how a pandemic works, and even what needed to be done to prepare for it: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/revealed-uk-ministers-were-warned-last-year-of-risks-of-coronavirus-pandemic__;!!Mih3wA!Q4qvi7b0Y3sDL-RrwL4yMtjalfXBsHEzLx83vWCt1cJ4KegxH5Zcl-jR8NaDNPhot0X-Vw$ And now we know a bit more than we did then. There is a prediction/warning there about a number of pandemic waves? In the second ?wave?, we ? the world subject-in-formation may have learnt more, maybe there will be fewer deaths? Maybe we will rescue WHO, maybe not (I won?t predict). But maybe the science community will be paying serious attention, and especially to its duty to the ?public good?. But there are some contradictory signs. In my own university we seem to be about to enter a new austerity, (implemented from the top by a failing leadership, led by a true academic, bio scientist no less!) What is clear is that the ?public? and its social movements are key to forcing each government to act, and that in almost all cases our leaders and rulers have followed along reluctantly ? even while the science and the pandemic plan was there. In the third and subsequent waves? I agree it?s not predictable: the outcomes will depend entirely on all of ?us?. And in the next ?big one?, the climate collapse? Maybe all this pandemic ?play? will have helped prepare us, we maybe will learn how to build the institutions, policies etc for the world?s ?public good? in time. I still have hope. I use Vygotsky-Leontiev?s idea of ?play? as the leading activity of the pre-schooler, as I find it complements the notion of world perezhivanie ? yes, we are experiencing trauma and that drives activity to overcome, etc, but also in this play we are acting, reflecting, and always ? above all - imagining and re-imagining (modelling etc) our world future. Julian From: > on behalf of Andy Blunden > Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Date: Saturday, 25 April 2020 at 02:08 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? Greg, the word is polysemic, as Mike said, but I agree with Michael that perezhivaniya are essentially collective experiences. As I say in the article, that COVID will be experienced differently in different countries, by different classes and social groups is an important part of this process. It does not detract it from its being a single experience. Huw, a "world subject" is emergent at this moment. It is implicit or "in-itself" but I look forward to the appearance of such a world subject, though who know how long and through what traumas we will pass before it is an actuality. Like WW2, the COVID pandemic part of its birth process. ? https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/seminars/perezhivanie.htm__;!!Mih3wA!Q4qvi7b0Y3sDL-RrwL4yMtjalfXBsHEzLx83vWCt1cJ4KegxH5Zcl-jR8NaDNPh0LmVoOw$ , Notes, links, excerpts, 2009 ? https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Blunden_article*response.pdf__;Kw!!Mih3wA!Q4qvi7b0Y3sDL-RrwL4yMtjalfXBsHEzLx83vWCt1cJ4KegxH5Zcl-jR8NaDNPidGhnFvA$ , MCA article 2016 ? https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Coronavirus-pandemic.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!Q4qvi7b0Y3sDL-RrwL4yMtjalfXBsHEzLx83vWCt1cJ4KegxH5Zcl-jR8NaDNPipJQeqew$ Andy Andy Blunden Hegel for Social Movements Home Page On 25/04/2020 4:01 am, Greg Thompson wrote: I'm wondering about Andy's suggestion that covid-19 is a (or maybe "is creating a"?) world perezhivanie. That seems a really rich suggestion but I'm not sure how many of us on the list really understand what he means by this. Andy tends to just tell me to go read more and so I'm wondering if someone else might be willing to take a stab at explaining what he might mean. Also, as a critical intervention, I am wondering whether covid-19 is the "same" for everyone. We have folks in the U.S. who think it is basically just a typical flu that has been turned into a political tool to attack the current president. Or does that not matter for perezhivanie? (and just to be clear, my question is not whether or not this is true or right or beautiful to think this way; my question is whether or not this is how people are actually experiencing the world since I assume that this is what perezhivanie is supposed to be "getting at". Or am I misunderstanding perezhivanie?) So is there really a shared perezhivanie here? (Is The Problem of Age the place to look for answers?) But if no one wants to take this up (perhaps too much ink has been spilt over perezhivanie?), that's fine too. Cheers, greg -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!Q4qvi7b0Y3sDL-RrwL4yMtjalfXBsHEzLx83vWCt1cJ4KegxH5Zcl-jR8NaDNPhICkJvWg$ https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!Q4qvi7b0Y3sDL-RrwL4yMtjalfXBsHEzLx83vWCt1cJ4KegxH5Zcl-jR8NaDNPi8OPnaBw$ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200426/7ae80386/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 913A4AC782474EFCB4ADC9E69E7E55C0.png Type: image/png Size: 135 bytes Desc: 913A4AC782474EFCB4ADC9E69E7E55C0.png Url : http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200426/7ae80386/attachment.png From andyb@marxists.org Sat Apr 25 23:38:14 2020 From: andyb@marxists.org (Andy Blunden) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2020 16:38:14 +1000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? In-Reply-To: References: <7f661750-350f-9e76-d6b3-1598132af583@marxists.org> <1056380D-069C-40AE-934F-EA2A1212ACDB@manchester.ac.uk> <0E64BF76-A158-453E-B233-64D5E00625FA@cantab.net> <8DD6C766-811B-4B08-8B10-6ECA676FAA50@cantab.net> Message-ID: That's fascinating, Derek. Oz managed a rapid and united response for different historical reasons, and a certain amount of luck, given the government's dreadful response to the bushfires immediately before! The reason that other East Asian countries have managed the pandemic relatively well is that the people had experienced SARS and H1N1 and understood right away what had to be done. The UK report that Julian shared shows that too long a time without experiencing a pandemic has made governments and populations complacent. Australia banned entrance from China the day after the US did, but no country can refuse entry to its own nationals, so Australia made everyone spend 2 weeks in Christmas Island in quarantine before getting into Australia (the kind of practice we have a long history of doing) while 40,000 US residents have flown in from China without being tested since the borders were supposedly closed. Europe was in the same situation. Once you've missed the first few cases it is a losing battle. As far as I can see, you either flatten the curve as best you can to defend your ICU wards and wait for the vaccine, or you start stopping people at county and state borders and try to contain the spread. I think the latter is untenable in the US, because of your history. Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ *Andy Blunden* Hegel for Social Movements Home Page On 26/04/2020 3:21 pm, Derek Worley Patton wrote: > > Hi Martin, I rarely comment, but as to New Zealand, our > prime minister and community health leader who is a > community health expert and pointedly takes into consider > the physical, mental, community and economic health (and > other science advisors) all being of one mind (a Unity of > thought, understanding and action) blessings to be > thankful for, have both explained we are trying to > ?eliminate? the virus, which they explain is not the same > as ?eradicate?.? The difference being we eliminate the > transmission by quick identifying, tracking contacts, > testing them, and treating rapidly. We can only maintain > that by guarding the borders by putting everyone coming > into the country into 2 weeks isolation in specially > monitored hotels and motels. The virus is not eradicated > in the sense that small pox is (not taking into account > weapons or government labs keeping sample just in case to > defend ourselves (we hope of course). > > Small point. But I think New Zealand is succeeding because > of being somewhat of one mind, and one united response > trained by other events. Here in Christchurch we had some > big killer Quakes, then 20,000 after shocks over 3 to 5 > years. We have learned that little can be trusted > including the earth, insurance companies, government > beauracracies etc. What we do know we trust is that? our > neighbours (most of them) will? be generous, kind and > trustworthy in an emergency. Note our response to the > Mosque massacre, as a city and as a nation. > > New Zealand, from my perspective as an American Quaker > militant pacifist 1960s radical and having lived in > Micronesia, Taiwan, China, Malaysia, Australia and > visiting and work in Indonesia, Thailand and Kenya, is > that NZ?s population has taken on a lot of Maori and > Pacific Islander culture. They also think they are too far > from the original European homes (UK particularly) to > depend on that, and therefore will try to solve things > themselves as a first reaction. Collectively, they think > and act like a big spread out village and are fiercely > defensive of their fair play. > > This is of course very hopefully the kind of national > flexible and cooperative mindset that leads to cooperative > culture change in the most useful direction.? Kind > regards, derek > > Dr Derek W Patton ??? M.Ed(Child & Family Psychology), > PGDip, PhD > Child & Family Psychologist, registered and practicing New > Zealand > > Melbourne Graduate School of Education (PhD and Lecturer - > 2009-2015) > > Honorary Fellow, research (2015 - 2020) > > *From: *Martin Packer > *Sent: *Sunday, 26 April 2020 4:16 AM > *To: *eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? > > David, > > There is talk about the possible?eradication of the virus > in Australia and New Zealand, from what I have read. > Eradication is difficult when no one has resistance, but > not impossible. Other virus infections have been > eradicated, as far as one can tell, such as smallpox. > > In Wuhan, where the infections started, which is a city of > around 11 million people, less that 70,000 cases were > reported. Even if that is vastly underreported by a factor > of 10 it is less than 10%. ?And studies in California > suggest that only 1 in 5 have been infected, of whom 60% > have not experienced any symptoms. Only around 5% need > hospitalization. > > Martin > > > > On Apr 25, 2020, at 10:46 AM, David H Kirshner > > wrote: > > Martin, > > The scenario you sketched out is what I?d thought > would/could happen, but the epidemiologists don?t ever > talk about eradicating the virus, they just talk about > slowing the spread so as not to overwhelm health care > facilities. Eventually, everyone who can get it will > get it. So a generation of older and weaker people > will be adversely affected, many dying. It?s only in > the next generation when most people have gotten it > young that it will fade into the background, like the > common cold. > > David > > *From:*xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > *On Behalf > Of *Martin Packer > *Sent:* Saturday, April 25, 2020 7:42 AM > *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? > > Julian, > > If no efforts are made to contain a virus it will move > through a population in a single wave, infecting many > people and then disappearing as no more potential > hosts are available. > > If efforts to contain it ? lockdown ? are adequate > there will be a single much smaller wave, followed > again by elimination as hosts are not available. > > If containment is not effective ? if people don?t > isolate sufficiently ? there may be a second wave when > the containment is reduced. Or the first wave may not > be controlled. > > As you say, each country is responding differently. > Australia seems close to eliminating the virus after a > single wave. The US and UK are somewhere between > starting a second wave and still being in a poorly > controlled first wave. Colombia seems to be still > moving up its first wave. > > The behavior of a virus can be modeled, but only on > the basis of assumptions about how people are going to > behave. Since we cannot predict this behavior, we > cannot even predict how the virus will or will not > spread, let alone the political, economic and social > consequences. > > To say this is not to be pessimistic; pessimism would > be predicting a dire outcome. Rather, it highlights > that the outcome lies in all our hands. > > Martin > > > > > On Apr 25, 2020, at 1:43 AM, Julian Williams > > wrote: > > Andy/Greg > > Each nation state appears to be ?playing? the > pandemic in different ways (eg China, Italy, > Australia, NZ, Sweden, UK, USA,? check out > attached report which comes > fromhttps://pandemic.internationalsos.com/2019-ncov > ???I > get one of these reports every few days) ?while > sometimes looking to other countries to see how > their numbers are growing/falling (and mostly > making a damn poor job of it). > > Before this all got going, the scientists already > had a pretty good idea how a pandemic works, and > even what needed to be done to prepare for > it:https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/revealed-uk-ministers-were-warned-last-year-of-risks-of-coronavirus-pandemic__;!!Mih3wA!WGgHs_zSKh8g8CeIt24gJJ8-k7aof8F2QkK9PMgUMdpjNebgP3aQshyCSiOWPvUZAzIobw$ > > > And now we know a bit more than we did then. > > There is a prediction/warning there about a number > of pandemic waves? > > In the second ?wave?, we ? the world > subject-in-formation may have learnt more, maybe > there will be fewer deaths? ?Maybe we will rescue > WHO, maybe not (I won?t predict). But maybe the > science community will be paying serious > attention, and especially to its duty to the > ?public good?. But there are some contradictory > signs. In my own university we seem to be about to > enter a new austerity, (implemented from the top > by a failing leadership, led by a true academic, > bio scientist no less!) > > What is clear is that the ?public? and its social > movements are key to forcing each government to > act, and that in almost all cases our leaders and > rulers have followed along reluctantly ? even > while the science and the pandemic plan was there. > > In the third and subsequent waves? I agree it?s > not predictable: the outcomes will depend entirely > on all of ?us?. > > And in the next ?big one?, the climate collapse? > Maybe all this pandemic ?play? will have helped > prepare us, we maybe will learn how to build the > institutions, policies etc for the world?s ?public > good? in time. I still have hope. > > I use Vygotsky-Leontiev?s idea of ?play? as the > leading activity of the pre-schooler, as I find it > complements the notion of world perezhivanie ? > yes, we are experiencing trauma and that drives > activity to overcome, etc, but also in this play > we are acting, reflecting, and always ? above all > - imagining and re-imagining (modelling etc) our > world future. > > Julian > > *From:* > on > behalf of Andy Blunden > > *Reply-To:*"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > > > *Date:*Saturday, 25 April 2020 at 02:08 > *To:*"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > > > *Subject:*[Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? > > Greg, the word is polysemic, as Mike said, but I > agree with Michael that/perezhivaniya/are > essentially collective experiences. As I say in > the article, that COVID will be experienced > differently in different countries, by different > classes and social groups is an important part of > this process. It does not detract it from its > being a single experience. > > Huw, a "world subject" is emergent at this moment. > It is implicit or "in-itself" but I look forward > to the appearance of such a world subject, though > who know how long and through what traumas we will > pass before it is an actuality. Like WW2, the > COVID pandemic part of its birth process. > > ?https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/seminars/perezhivanie.htm__;!!Mih3wA!WGgHs_zSKh8g8CeIt24gJJ8-k7aof8F2QkK9PMgUMdpjNebgP3aQshyCSiOWPvXxlK-cAg$ , > Notes, > links, excerpts, 2009 > > ?https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Blunden_article*response.pdf__;Kw!!Mih3wA!WGgHs_zSKh8g8CeIt24gJJ8-k7aof8F2QkK9PMgUMdpjNebgP3aQshyCSiOWPvWe3CoyrA$ > , > MCA article 2016 > > ?https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Coronavirus-pandemic.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!WGgHs_zSKh8g8CeIt24gJJ8-k7aof8F2QkK9PMgUMdpjNebgP3aQshyCSiOWPvU4PIYb9A$ > > > Andy > > *Andy Blunden* > Hegel for Social Movements > > Home Page > > > On 25/04/2020 4:01 am, Greg Thompson wrote: > > I'm wondering about Andy's suggestion that > covid-19 is a (or maybe "is creating a"?) > world perezhivanie. That seems a really rich > suggestion but I'm not sure how many of us on > the list really understand what he means by this. > > Andy tends to just tell me to go read more and > so I'm wondering if someone else might be > willing to take a stab at explaining what he > might mean. > > Also, as a critical intervention, I am > wondering whether covid-19 is the "same" for > everyone. We have folks in the U.S. who think > it is basically just a typical flu that has > been turned into a political tool to attack > the current president. Or does that not matter > for perezhivanie? > > (and just to be clear, my question is not > whether or not this is true or right or > beautiful to think this way; my question is > whether or not this is how people are actually > experiencing the world since I assume that > this is what perezhivanie is supposed to be > "getting at". Or am I misunderstanding > perezhivanie?) > > So is there really a shared perezhivanie here? > > (Is The Problem of Age the place to look for > answers?) > > But if no one wants to take this up (perhaps > too much ink has been spilt over > perezhivanie?), that's fine too. > > Cheers, > > greg > > -- > > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > > Assistant Professor > > Department of Anthropology > > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > > Brigham Young University > > Provo, UT 84602 > > WEBSITE: > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!WGgHs_zSKh8g8CeIt24gJJ8-k7aof8F2QkK9PMgUMdpjNebgP3aQshyCSiOWPvVkWCBwgQ$ > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!WGgHs_zSKh8g8CeIt24gJJ8-k7aof8F2QkK9PMgUMdpjNebgP3aQshyCSiOWPvWXZEc1IA$ > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200426/0c149f78/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 913A4AC782474EFCB4ADC9E69E7E55C0.png Type: image/png Size: 135 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200426/0c149f78/attachment.png From VanDerRiet@ukzn.ac.za Sun Apr 26 01:40:08 2020 From: VanDerRiet@ukzn.ac.za (Mary van der Riet) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2020 08:40:08 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? In-Reply-To: <04B33A84-A10E-4E3E-B7D4-358E9DD62EF6@manchester.ac.uk> References: <7f661750-350f-9e76-d6b3-1598132af583@marxists.org> <1056380D-069C-40AE-934F-EA2A1212ACDB@manchester.ac.uk> <0E64BF76-A158-453E-B233-64D5E00625FA@cantab.net> <8DD6C766-811B-4B08-8B10-6ECA676FAA50@cantab.net> , , <04B33A84-A10E-4E3E-B7D4-358E9DD62EF6@manchester.ac.uk> Message-ID: I am struck in all of these conversations of the similarities with the HIV pandemic . We face these issues daily in the Southern African region (the highest prevalence of HIV globally). We say 'it depends on us', and revert to information sharing, and dependence on cognitive shifts and adaptations (all of the old behaviour change theories Theory of Reasoned Action; Health Belief Models)- see the risk, know what the risk means, know how to prevent it, and make changes to your behaviour in order to protect yourself. All of this is relevant for the COVID 10 pandemic, and much of it is not working. We as educated adults see the risk, know the risk, know how to protect ourselves (to the degree that scientists have informed us, and to the degree that science knows about the transmission) and yet it is really hard to change behaviour, to 'believe' that this is real And what does it mean for action? It means people don't social distance, don't use masks, see themselves as infallible etc. The origin of actions/activity do/does not reside in cognition...we know that from Activity theory, CHAT, etc. In the HIV pandemic in SA, there are still people who believe that you are fine if you cant see the symptoms (loss of weight, skin conditions, diarrohea - a fallacy by the way). A taxi driver said he would rather have HIV than Covid 19 because he could 'see' that someone was or was not HIV positive, but he is scared of Covid 19 because he cant 'see' it. Same discourse, same consequences. Then there was a period in SA where HIV public health messaging was about showing coffins, and symbols of death to try to get people to take in the seriousness of it all. Do we find this now? are those more directly infected (someone in their family, seeing someone ill with Covid 19 - doctors, nurses)- more convinced about the nature of the problem). Perhaps not for some in the USA protesting this viral hoax. So, what changes behaviour? The question is the same - what is the motive that drives the health protection actions of individuals? The origin of behaviour is not individual cognition. Uganda was seen to have been so effective in reducing HIV incidence because it made HIV a notifiable disease. Is this draconian? Does it infringe on individual rights? [In SA we have not done that, we have a constitutional right to control and manage and keep private our HIV status; AND we have huge levels of stigma (extreme fear of going for an HIV test in a university context because people will 'see you there, and think you are HIV positive). At the same time, young women at universities are afraid of unplanned pregnancies because they are visible, (unlike HIV), and evidence of sexual activity. So, contradictions and tensions in practices around sexual activity in the context of 'risk' or vulnerability to HIV.] Governments who can instruct people how to behave (ie take the responsibility away from the individual) seem to have had more control over the spread of the virus (SA during lockdown). So a rule or a law which governs individual actions (and creating the context for an action, prescribing what might be 'afforded' in the context) might be more effective that the individual 'making a decision' If condom use amongst young people is not a 'norm' it is difficult for one person to engage with condom use. Do we need governments to set up the conditions for the actions of individuals? Mary Mary van der Riet (Phd), Associate Professor Discipline of Psychology, School of Applied Human Sciences, College of Humanities, University of KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa email: vanderriet@ukzn.ac.za tel: +27 33 260 6163 ________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Julian Williams Sent: Saturday, 25 April 2020 20:24 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? Martin, David Yes a lot depends... on ?us?. Check out the report, where you can see how much was ?predicted? years ago, even the possible public outrage ensuing government failures ; but yes my decisive, main point was not to predict, but to ACT. David I agree the bioscience issues are important, but bear in mind that our sloppy public health systems globally ( eg with wild life markets) expose humanity to many new viruses ( they estimate 2-4 new viruses per year) - our relations and actions shape this threat. Then also not just immediately, but imaginatively, to play with models (and not just those reductive epidemiologists? ?predictions?) .. but to imagineer a world subject that can act in future to tackle essentially GLOBAL challenges. Best wishes Julian On 25 Apr 2020, at 18:10, Martin Packer > wrote: That?s the problem with predicting - it all depends! :) Yes, coronavirus may become endemic, like flu or the common cold or something worse. Or a vaccine may be developed. Or if 4 in 5 are somehow naturally resistant, and if most of the 1 in 5 who become infected develop immunity as a result, the incidence of covid could drop dramatically. Or we could all drink disinfectant. Martin On Apr 25, 2020, at 11:49 AM, David H Kirshner > wrote: It is possible that the virus is eradicated, like SARS was, but that?s increasingly unlikely. More likely is that ?2019-nCoV joins the four coronaviruses now circulating in people. ?I can imagine a scenario where this becomes a fifth endemic human coronavirus,? said Stephen Morse of Columbia University?s Mailman School of Public Health, an epidemiologist and expert on emerging infectious diseases.? https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.statnews.com/2020/02/04/two-scenarios-if-new-coronavirus-isnt-contained/__;!!Mih3wA!V5YwXt4bJDETL9xcWs6kuZZsMqErkVceRFwa2dL_DlncItiteXlABYhM1sEpMbPeZ9d88Q$ The fact that such a large proportion of people who contract the virus are asymptomatic make this one very hard to contain. Of course, the possibility of a vaccine would greatly reduce its human toll. David From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > On Behalf Of Martin Packer Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 11:14 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? David, There is talk about the possible eradication of the virus in Australia and New Zealand, from what I have read. Eradication is difficult when no one has resistance, but not impossible. Other virus infections have been eradicated, as far as one can tell, such as smallpox. In Wuhan, where the infections started, which is a city of around 11 million people, less that 70,000 cases were reported. Even if that is vastly underreported by a factor of 10 it is less than 10%. And studies in California suggest that only 1 in 5 have been infected, of whom 60% have not experienced any symptoms. Only around 5% need hospitalization. Martin On Apr 25, 2020, at 10:46 AM, David H Kirshner > wrote: Martin, The scenario you sketched out is what I?d thought would/could happen, but the epidemiologists don?t ever talk about eradicating the virus, they just talk about slowing the spread so as not to overwhelm health care facilities. Eventually, everyone who can get it will get it. So a generation of older and weaker people will be adversely affected, many dying. It?s only in the next generation when most people have gotten it young that it will fade into the background, like the common cold. David From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > On Behalf Of Martin Packer Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 7:42 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? Julian, If no efforts are made to contain a virus it will move through a population in a single wave, infecting many people and then disappearing as no more potential hosts are available. If efforts to contain it ? lockdown ? are adequate there will be a single much smaller wave, followed again by elimination as hosts are not available. If containment is not effective ? if people don?t isolate sufficiently ? there may be a second wave when the containment is reduced. Or the first wave may not be controlled. As you say, each country is responding differently. Australia seems close to eliminating the virus after a single wave. The US and UK are somewhere between starting a second wave and still being in a poorly controlled first wave. Colombia seems to be still moving up its first wave. The behavior of a virus can be modeled, but only on the basis of assumptions about how people are going to behave. Since we cannot predict this behavior, we cannot even predict how the virus will or will not spread, let alone the political, economic and social consequences. To say this is not to be pessimistic; pessimism would be predicting a dire outcome. Rather, it highlights that the outcome lies in all our hands. Martin On Apr 25, 2020, at 1:43 AM, Julian Williams > wrote: Andy/Greg Each nation state appears to be ?playing? the pandemic in different ways (eg China, Italy, Australia, NZ, Sweden, UK, USA,? check out attached report which comes from https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://pandemic.internationalsos.com/2019-ncov__;!!Mih3wA!V5YwXt4bJDETL9xcWs6kuZZsMqErkVceRFwa2dL_DlncItiteXlABYhM1sEpMbOFAQ3FTg$ I get one of these reports every few days) while sometimes looking to other countries to see how their numbers are growing/falling (and mostly making a damn poor job of it). Before this all got going, the scientists already had a pretty good idea how a pandemic works, and even what needed to be done to prepare for it: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/revealed-uk-ministers-were-warned-last-year-of-risks-of-coronavirus-pandemic__;!!Mih3wA!V5YwXt4bJDETL9xcWs6kuZZsMqErkVceRFwa2dL_DlncItiteXlABYhM1sEpMbPeibwPoQ$ And now we know a bit more than we did then. There is a prediction/warning there about a number of pandemic waves? In the second ?wave?, we ? the world subject-in-formation may have learnt more, maybe there will be fewer deaths? Maybe we will rescue WHO, maybe not (I won?t predict). But maybe the science community will be paying serious attention, and especially to its duty to the ?public good?. But there are some contradictory signs. In my own university we seem to be about to enter a new austerity, (implemented from the top by a failing leadership, led by a true academic, bio scientist no less!) What is clear is that the ?public? and its social movements are key to forcing each government to act, and that in almost all cases our leaders and rulers have followed along reluctantly ? even while the science and the pandemic plan was there. In the third and subsequent waves? I agree it?s not predictable: the outcomes will depend entirely on all of ?us?. And in the next ?big one?, the climate collapse? Maybe all this pandemic ?play? will have helped prepare us, we maybe will learn how to build the institutions, policies etc for the world?s ?public good? in time. I still have hope. I use Vygotsky-Leontiev?s idea of ?play? as the leading activity of the pre-schooler, as I find it complements the notion of world perezhivanie ? yes, we are experiencing trauma and that drives activity to overcome, etc, but also in this play we are acting, reflecting, and always ? above all - imagining and re-imagining (modelling etc) our world future. Julian From: > on behalf of Andy Blunden > Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Date: Saturday, 25 April 2020 at 02:08 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? Greg, the word is polysemic, as Mike said, but I agree with Michael that perezhivaniya are essentially collective experiences. As I say in the article, that COVID will be experienced differently in different countries, by different classes and social groups is an important part of this process. It does not detract it from its being a single experience. Huw, a "world subject" is emergent at this moment. It is implicit or "in-itself" but I look forward to the appearance of such a world subject, though who know how long and through what traumas we will pass before it is an actuality. Like WW2, the COVID pandemic part of its birth process. * https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/seminars/perezhivanie.htm__;!!Mih3wA!V5YwXt4bJDETL9xcWs6kuZZsMqErkVceRFwa2dL_DlncItiteXlABYhM1sEpMbMTVTxRfQ$ , Notes, links, excerpts, 2009 * https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Blunden_article*response.pdf__;Kw!!Mih3wA!V5YwXt4bJDETL9xcWs6kuZZsMqErkVceRFwa2dL_DlncItiteXlABYhM1sEpMbN8fXtY5w$ , MCA article 2016 * https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Coronavirus-pandemic.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!V5YwXt4bJDETL9xcWs6kuZZsMqErkVceRFwa2dL_DlncItiteXlABYhM1sEpMbNE_DHTdA$ Andy ________________________________ Andy Blunden Hegel for Social Movements Home Page On 25/04/2020 4:01 am, Greg Thompson wrote: I'm wondering about Andy's suggestion that covid-19 is a (or maybe "is creating a"?) world perezhivanie. That seems a really rich suggestion but I'm not sure how many of us on the list really understand what he means by this. Andy tends to just tell me to go read more and so I'm wondering if someone else might be willing to take a stab at explaining what he might mean. Also, as a critical intervention, I am wondering whether covid-19 is the "same" for everyone. We have folks in the U.S. who think it is basically just a typical flu that has been turned into a political tool to attack the current president. Or does that not matter for perezhivanie? (and just to be clear, my question is not whether or not this is true or right or beautiful to think this way; my question is whether or not this is how people are actually experiencing the world since I assume that this is what perezhivanie is supposed to be "getting at". Or am I misunderstanding perezhivanie?) So is there really a shared perezhivanie here? (Is The Problem of Age the place to look for answers?) But if no one wants to take this up (perhaps too much ink has been spilt over perezhivanie?), that's fine too. Cheers, greg -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!V5YwXt4bJDETL9xcWs6kuZZsMqErkVceRFwa2dL_DlncItiteXlABYhM1sEpMbO7SyAruA$ https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!V5YwXt4bJDETL9xcWs6kuZZsMqErkVceRFwa2dL_DlncItiteXlABYhM1sEpMbN6aL55iQ$ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200426/9ab2cf01/attachment.html From a.j.gil@ils.uio.no Sun Apr 26 01:46:35 2020 From: a.j.gil@ils.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2020 08:46:35 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: =?utf-8?q?=2215_La_era_est=C3=A1_pariendo_un_coraz=C3=B3n_-_O?= =?utf-8?q?mara_portuondo_y_Mart=C3=ADn_Rojas=22?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I love Omara Portuondo!! Really relevant, thanks a lot for sharing Alfredo From: on behalf of Ulvi ??il Reply to: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Date: Saturday, 25 April 2020 at 21:45 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "15 La era est? pariendo un coraz?n - Omara portuondo y Mart?n Rojas" Thanks to you Tom and to Henry. 25 Nis 2020 Cmt 22:39 tarihinde Tom Richardson > ?unu yazd?: Thank you, Ulvi icil - touching, passionate - although my Spanish isn't able to translate it - but that matters not - the feeling is there. Tom Richardson Middlesbrough UK [Image removed by sender.] BoWen On Sat, 25 Apr 2020 at 20:23, Ulvi ??il > wrote: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://youtu.be/qTJzYtd1l7M__;!!Mih3wA!UmBap7G3wg6PhGYCR6tY5vG7nh8s8yD5QqxiDyEOmLkqzStXD4xWOh2ee9jh9nDB4zWcAA$ I think best interpretation of this song. Ulvi -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200426/83ea3c12/attachment.html From a.j.gil@ils.uio.no Sun Apr 26 02:03:24 2020 From: a.j.gil@ils.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2020 09:03:24 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: =?utf-8?q?=2215_La_era_est=C3=A1_pariendo_un_coraz=C3=B3n_-_O?= =?utf-8?q?mara_portuondo_y_Mart=C3=ADn_Rojas=22?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Here the lyrics, in case you want to use Google Translate: Le he preguntado a mi sombra A ver c?mo ando, para re?rme Mientras el llanto, con voz de templo Rompe en la sala regando el tiempo Mi sombra dice que re?rse Es ver los llantos como mi llanto Y me he callado, desesperado Y escucho entonces La tierra llora La era esta pariendo un coraz?n No puede m?s, se muere de dolor Y hay que acudir corriendo Pues se cae el porvenir La era esta pariendo un coraz?n No puede m?s, se muere de dolor Y hay que acudir corriendo Pues se cae el porvenir En cualquier selva del mundo Mi sombra dice que re?rse Es ver los llantos como mi llanto Y me he callado, desesperado Y escucho entonces La tierra llora La era esta pariendo un coraz?n No puede m?s, se muere de dolor Y hay que acudir corriendo Pues se cae el porvenir Debo dejar la casa y el sill?n La madre vive hasta que muere el sol Y hay que quemar el cielo Si es preciso, por vivir Por cualquier hombre del mundo Por cualquier casa From: on behalf of Alfredo Jornet Gil Reply to: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Date: Sunday, 26 April 2020 at 11:02 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "15 La era est? pariendo un coraz?n - Omara portuondo y Mart?n Rojas" I love Omara Portuondo!! Really relevant, thanks a lot for sharing Alfredo From: on behalf of Ulvi ??il Reply to: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Date: Saturday, 25 April 2020 at 21:45 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "15 La era est? pariendo un coraz?n - Omara portuondo y Mart?n Rojas" Thanks to you Tom and to Henry. 25 Nis 2020 Cmt 22:39 tarihinde Tom Richardson > ?unu yazd?: Thank you, Ulvi icil - touching, passionate - although my Spanish isn't able to translate it - but that matters not - the feeling is there. Tom Richardson Middlesbrough UK [Image removed by sender.] BoWen On Sat, 25 Apr 2020 at 20:23, Ulvi ??il > wrote: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://youtu.be/qTJzYtd1l7M__;!!Mih3wA!Xq4kwEHbpF5G7waNBBehyj6ziqMCIf-yNVie0wnnYM8YhC32aUM7h3IYOAQ_sVWczfTuAQ$ I think best interpretation of this song. Ulvi -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200426/0e6dd0f4/attachment.html From andyb@marxists.org Sun Apr 26 05:21:22 2020 From: andyb@marxists.org (Andy Blunden) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2020 22:21:22 +1000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? In-Reply-To: References: <7f661750-350f-9e76-d6b3-1598132af583@marxists.org> <1056380D-069C-40AE-934F-EA2A1212ACDB@manchester.ac.uk> <0E64BF76-A158-453E-B233-64D5E00625FA@cantab.net> <8DD6C766-811B-4B08-8B10-6ECA676FAA50@cantab.net> <04B33A84-A10E-4E3E-B7D4-358E9DD62EF6@manchester.ac.uk> Message-ID: Successful response to a pandemic (incl. HIV) really does depend on government action, I think, Mary, and governments can be very much more or less effective in how they act. But almost everything depends on *trust*, trust in government and trust in each other. Trust is mediated of course, and if a government is not trusted there are people who can broker that trust, people like village, religious or community leaders. A government which is not trusted can still be successful if it can convince others to broker behavioural change. Trust is largely a cultural and historical product. Building trust between institutions such as expertise and government, and the people takes a generation at least. Also important is *social memory*. My generation still (just) remembers polio. Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ *Andy Blunden* Hegel for Social Movements Home Page On 26/04/2020 6:40 pm, Mary van der Riet wrote: > I am struck in all of these conversations of the > similarities with the HIV pandemic . We face these issues > daily in the Southern African region (the highest > prevalence of HIV globally). > We say 'it depends on us', and revert to information > sharing, and dependence on cognitive shifts and > adaptations (all of the old behaviour change theories? > Theory of Reasoned Action; Health Belief Models)- see the > risk, know what the risk means, know how to prevent it, > and make changes to your behaviour in order to protect > yourself. > All of this is relevant for the COVID 10 pandemic, and > much of it is not working. We as educated adults see the > risk, know the risk, know how to protect ourselves (to the > degree that scientists have informed us, and to the degree > that science knows about the transmission) and yet it is > really hard to change behaviour, to 'believe' that this is > real > > And what does it mean for action? It means people don't > social distance, don't use masks, see themselves as > infallible etc. > > The origin of actions/activity do/does not reside in > cognition...we know that from Activity theory, CHAT, etc. > > In the HIV pandemic in SA, there are still people who > believe that you are fine if you cant see the symptoms > (loss of weight, skin conditions, diarrohea - a fallacy by > the way). A taxi driver said he would rather have HIV than > Covid 19 because he could 'see'? that someone was or was > not HIV positive, but he is scared of Covid 19 because he > cant 'see' it. Same discourse, same consequences. > Then there was a period in SA where HIV public health > messaging was about showing coffins, and symbols of death > to try to get people to take in the seriousness of it all. > Do we find this now? are those more directly infected > (someone in their family, seeing someone ill with Covid 19 > - doctors, nurses)- more convinced about the nature of the > problem). Perhaps not for some in the USA protesting this > viral hoax. So, what changes behaviour? > > The question is the same - what is the motive that drives > the health protection actions of individuals? The origin > of behaviour is not individual cognition. > > Uganda was seen to have been so effective in reducing HIV > incidence because it made HIV a notifiable disease.? Is > this draconian? Does it infringe on individual rights? [In > SA we have not done that, we have a constitutional right > to control and manage and keep private our HIV status; AND > we have huge levels of stigma (extreme fear of going for > an HIV test in a university context because people will > 'see you there, and think you are HIV positive). At the > same time, young women at universities are afraid of > unplanned pregnancies because they are visible, (unlike > HIV), and evidence of sexual activity. So, contradictions > and tensions in practices around sexual activity in the > context of 'risk' or vulnerability to HIV.] Governments > who can instruct people how to behave (ie take the > responsibility away from the individual) seem to have had > more control over the spread of the virus (SA during > lockdown). So a rule or a law which governs individual > actions (and creating the context for an action, > prescribing what might be 'afforded' in the context) might > be more effective that the individual 'making a decision' > If condom use amongst young people is not a 'norm' it is > difficult for one person to engage with condom use. > > Do we need governments to set up the conditions for the > actions of individuals? > > Mary > > > > > > > > /Mary van der Riet (Phd), //Associate Professor/ > /Discipline of Psychology, //School of Applied Human > Sciences, College of Humanities, University of > KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa/ > /email: vanderriet@ukzn.ac.za //tel: +27 33 260 6163/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Julian > Williams > *Sent:* Saturday, 25 April 2020 20:24 > *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? > Martin, David > > Yes a lot depends... on ?us?. > > Check out the report, where you can see how much was > ?predicted? years ago, even the possible public outrage > ensuing government failures ; but yes my decisive, main > point was not to predict, but to ACT. > > David I agree the bioscience issues are important, but > bear in mind that our sloppy public health systems > globally ( eg with wild life markets) expose humanity to > many new viruses ( they estimate 2-4 new viruses per year) > - our relations and actions shape this threat. > > Then also not just immediately, but imaginatively, to play > with models (and not just those reductive epidemiologists? > ?predictions?) .. but to imagineer a world subject that > can act in future to tackle essentially GLOBAL challenges. > > Best wishes > > Julian > > On 25 Apr 2020, at 18:10, Martin Packer > > wrote: > >> That?s the problem with predicting - it all depends! ?:) >> >> Yes, coronavirus may become endemic, like flu or the >> common cold or something worse. >> >> Or a vaccine may be developed. >> >> Or if 4 in 5 are somehow naturally resistant, and if most >> of the 1 in 5 who become infected develop immunity as a >> result, the incidence of covid could drop dramatically. >> >> Or we could all drink disinfectant. >> >> Martin >> >> >> >>> On Apr 25, 2020, at 11:49 AM, David H Kirshner >>> > wrote: >>> >>> It is possible that the virus is eradicated, like SARS >>> was, but that?s increasingly unlikely. >>> More likely is that ?2019-nCoV joins the four >>> coronaviruses now circulating in people. ?I can imagine >>> a scenario where this becomes a fifth endemic human >>> coronavirus,? said Stephen Morse of Columbia >>> University?s Mailman School of Public Health, an >>> epidemiologist and expert on emerging infectious diseases.? >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.statnews.com/2020/02/04/two-scenarios-if-new-coronavirus-isnt-contained/__;!!Mih3wA!XXBlOwiCZNpRloR2X8kg8q-y3GjNewWLhUptyr9R8Raj6XJf50RH3RBY6bc-pfWdfOxBsQ$ >>> >>> The fact that such a large proportion of people who >>> contract the virus are asymptomatic make this one very >>> hard to contain. Of course, the possibility of a vaccine >>> would greatly reduce its human toll. >>> David >>> *From:*xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>> >> >*On Behalf >>> Of*Martin Packer >>> *Sent:*Saturday, April 25, 2020 11:14 AM >>> *To:*eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>> > >>> *Subject:*[Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? >>> David, >>> There is talk about the possible?eradication of the >>> virus in Australia and New Zealand, from what I have >>> read. Eradication is difficult when no one has >>> resistance, but not impossible. Other virus infections >>> have been eradicated, as far as one can tell, such as >>> smallpox. >>> In Wuhan, where the infections started, which is a city >>> of around 11 million people, less that 70,000 cases were >>> reported. Even if that is vastly underreported by a >>> factor of 10 it is less than 10%. ?And studies in >>> California suggest that only 1 in 5 have been infected, >>> of whom 60% have not experienced any symptoms. Only >>> around 5% need hospitalization. >>> Martin >>> >>> >>> On Apr 25, 2020, at 10:46 AM, David H Kirshner >>> > wrote: >>> Martin, >>> The scenario you sketched out is what I?d thought >>> would/could happen, but the epidemiologists don?t >>> ever talk about eradicating the virus, they just >>> talk about slowing the spread so as not to overwhelm >>> health care facilities. Eventually, everyone who can >>> get it will get it. So a generation of older and >>> weaker people will be adversely affected, many >>> dying. It?s only in the next generation when most >>> people have gotten it young that it will fade into >>> the background, like the common cold. >>> David >>> *From:*xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>> >> >*On Behalf >>> Of*Martin Packer >>> *Sent:*Saturday, April 25, 2020 7:42 AM >>> *To:*eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>> >> > >>> *Subject:*[Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? >>> Julian, >>> If no efforts are made to contain a virus it will >>> move through a population in a single wave, >>> infecting many people and then disappearing as no >>> more potential hosts are available. >>> If efforts to contain it ? lockdown ? are adequate >>> there will be a single much smaller wave, followed >>> again by elimination as hosts are not available. >>> If containment is not effective ? if people don?t >>> isolate sufficiently ? there may be a second wave >>> when the containment is reduced. Or the first wave >>> may not be controlled. >>> As you say, each country is responding differently. >>> Australia seems close to eliminating the virus after >>> a single wave. The US and UK are somewhere between >>> starting a second wave and still being in a poorly >>> controlled first wave. Colombia seems to be still >>> moving up its first wave. >>> The behavior of a virus can be modeled, but only on >>> the basis of assumptions about how people are going >>> to behave. Since we cannot predict this behavior, we >>> cannot even predict how the virus will or will not >>> spread, let alone the political, economic and social >>> consequences. >>> To say this is not to be pessimistic; pessimism >>> would be predicting a dire outcome. Rather, it >>> highlights that the outcome lies in all our hands. >>> Martin >>> >>> >>> >>> On Apr 25, 2020, at 1:43 AM, Julian Williams >>> >> > wrote: >>> Andy/Greg >>> Each nation state appears to be ?playing? the >>> pandemic in different ways (eg China, Italy, >>> Australia, NZ, Sweden, UK, USA,? check out >>> attached report which comes >>> fromhttps://pandemic.internationalsos.com/2019-ncov >>> ???I >>> get one of these reports every few days) ?while >>> sometimes looking to other countries to see how >>> their numbers are growing/falling (and mostly >>> making a damn poor job of it). >>> Before this all got going, the scientists >>> already had a pretty good idea how a pandemic >>> works, and even what needed to be done to >>> prepare for >>> it:https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/revealed-uk-ministers-were-warned-last-year-of-risks-of-coronavirus-pandemic__;!!Mih3wA!XXBlOwiCZNpRloR2X8kg8q-y3GjNewWLhUptyr9R8Raj6XJf50RH3RBY6bc-pfUx-i4_3g$ >>> >>> And now we know a bit more than we did then. >>> There is a prediction/warning there about a >>> number of pandemic waves? >>> In the second ?wave?, we ? the world >>> subject-in-formation may have learnt more, maybe >>> there will be fewer deaths? ?Maybe we will >>> rescue WHO, maybe not (I won?t predict). But >>> maybe the science community will be paying >>> serious attention, and especially to its duty to >>> the ?public good?. But there are some >>> contradictory signs. In my own university we >>> seem to be about to enter a new austerity, >>> (implemented from the top by a failing >>> leadership, led by a true academic, bio >>> scientist no less!) >>> What is clear is that the ?public? and its >>> social movements are key to forcing each >>> government to act, and that in almost all cases >>> our leaders and rulers have followed along >>> reluctantly ? even while the science and the >>> pandemic plan was there. >>> In the third and subsequent waves? I agree it?s >>> not predictable: the outcomes will depend >>> entirely on all of ?us?. >>> And in the next ?big one?, the climate collapse? >>> Maybe all this pandemic ?play? will have helped >>> prepare us, we maybe will learn how to build the >>> institutions, policies etc for the world?s >>> ?public good? in time. I still have hope. >>> I use Vygotsky-Leontiev?s idea of ?play? as the >>> leading activity of the pre-schooler, as I find >>> it complements the notion of world perezhivanie >>> ? yes, we are experiencing trauma and that >>> drives activity to overcome, etc, but also in >>> this play we are acting, reflecting, and always >>> ? above all - imagining and re-imagining >>> (modelling etc) our world future. >>> Julian >>> *From:*>> > on >>> behalf of Andy Blunden >> > >>> *Reply-To:*"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" >>> >> > >>> *Date:*Saturday, 25 April 2020 at 02:08 >>> *To:*"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" >>> >> > >>> *Subject:*[Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? >>> Greg, the word is polysemic, as Mike said, but I >>> agree with Michael that/perezhivaniya/are >>> essentially collective experiences. As I say in >>> the article, that COVID will be experienced >>> differently in different countries, by different >>> classes and social groups is an important part >>> of this process. It does not detract it from its >>> being a single experience. >>> Huw, a "world subject" is emergent at this >>> moment. It is implicit or "in-itself" but I look >>> forward to the appearance of such a world >>> subject, though who know how long and through >>> what traumas we will pass before it is an >>> actuality. Like WW2, the COVID pandemic part of >>> its birth process. >>> >>> * https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/seminars/perezhivanie.htm__;!!Mih3wA!XXBlOwiCZNpRloR2X8kg8q-y3GjNewWLhUptyr9R8Raj6XJf50RH3RBY6bc-pfUrkX_5Jg$ , >>> Notes, >>> links, excerpts, 2009 >>> * https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Blunden_article*response.pdf__;Kw!!Mih3wA!XXBlOwiCZNpRloR2X8kg8q-y3GjNewWLhUptyr9R8Raj6XJf50RH3RBY6bc-pfXZ1sPLTw$ >>> , >>> MCA article 2016 >>> * https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Coronavirus-pandemic.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!XXBlOwiCZNpRloR2X8kg8q-y3GjNewWLhUptyr9R8Raj6XJf50RH3RBY6bc-pfWh8WTqdg$ >>> >>> >>> Andy >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> *Andy Blunden* >>> Hegel for Social Movements >>> >>> Home Page >>> >>> On 25/04/2020 4:01 am, Greg Thompson wrote: >>> >>> I'm wondering about Andy's suggestion that >>> covid-19 is a (or maybe "is creating a"?) >>> world perezhivanie. That seems a really rich >>> suggestion but I'm not sure how many of us >>> on the list really understand what he means >>> by this. >>> Andy tends to just tell me to go read more >>> and so I'm wondering if someone else might >>> be willing to take a stab at explaining what >>> he might mean. >>> Also, as a critical intervention, I am >>> wondering whether covid-19 is the "same" for >>> everyone. We have folks in the U.S. who >>> think it is basically just a typical flu >>> that has been turned into a political tool >>> to attack the current president. Or does >>> that not matter for perezhivanie? >>> (and just to be clear, my question is not >>> whether or not this is true or right or >>> beautiful to think this way; my question is >>> whether or not this is how people are >>> actually experiencing the world since I >>> assume that this is what perezhivanie is >>> supposed to be "getting at". Or am I >>> misunderstanding perezhivanie?) >>> So is there really a shared perezhivanie here? >>> (Is The Problem of Age the place to look for >>> answers?) >>> But if no one wants to take this up (perhaps >>> too much ink has been spilt over >>> perezhivanie?), that's fine too. >>> Cheers, >>> greg >>> -- >>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>> Assistant Professor >>> Department of Anthropology >>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >>> Brigham Young University >>> Provo, UT 84602 >>> WEBSITE: >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!XXBlOwiCZNpRloR2X8kg8q-y3GjNewWLhUptyr9R8Raj6XJf50RH3RBY6bc-pfVKZefPSg$ >>> >>> >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!XXBlOwiCZNpRloR2X8kg8q-y3GjNewWLhUptyr9R8Raj6XJf50RH3RBY6bc-pfXRMAXmDg$ >>> >>> >>> >>> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200426/39689a19/attachment.html From mcole@ucsd.edu Sun Apr 26 10:25:07 2020 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2020 10:25:07 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? In-Reply-To: References: <7f661750-350f-9e76-d6b3-1598132af583@marxists.org> <1056380D-069C-40AE-934F-EA2A1212ACDB@manchester.ac.uk> <0E64BF76-A158-453E-B233-64D5E00625FA@cantab.net> <8DD6C766-811B-4B08-8B10-6ECA676FAA50@cantab.net> <04B33A84-A10E-4E3E-B7D4-358E9DD62EF6@manchester.ac.uk> Message-ID: Tough questions, Mary. Following upon Derek's note on my screen, it seemed that the evidence for an empirical evidence concerning your question about the motives of individual members of society when faced with visible versus invisible. Does it require a government to coerce people who fail "to get it?" I think in arguing that "The origin of actions/activity do/does not reside in cognition," emotions are the origin and in the case of a pandemic fear seems to be a sure bet. But in converting from, say, terror to reasoned action, cognition is certainly becomes involved, where cognition is understood to be "distributed, embodied, saturated with meanings and senses, etc." It seems that the challenge is to make the invisible, visible. Its the same principle as in discussions, of say, of the way that racism in American classrooms works in the activity as an invisible contributor to the structure of the ongoing flow of events. Several generations of ethnographers and novelists and film makers have in fact been able to make that process visible -- visible, and thus a possible object of activity to those are able to re-organize their ideologically given understand of their experience and the way the world works. A government, or some sort of "governmentality," seems essential. It seems we see several distinct models when we look at how visibility is accomplished in a wide variety of current world circumstances, as reporting from several parts of the world here testify. Thanks to all of those who have taken time to describe the local circumstances. The question of "what action" (the very "what is to be done") that the Russians contemplated a century ago. Its the question that Anne-Nelly invited people to answer on behalf of Latour. Its a question I am asking myself, as the hour glass runs out and others have been discussing. I am no more certain than Anne-Nelly. And the hour glass could be sneezed upon any day now. mike On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 1:42 AM Mary van der Riet wrote: > I am struck in all of these conversations of the similarities with the HIV > pandemic . We face these issues daily in the Southern African region (the > highest prevalence of HIV globally). > We say 'it depends on us', and revert to information sharing, and > dependence on cognitive shifts and adaptations (all of the old behaviour > change theories Theory of Reasoned Action; Health Belief Models)- see the > risk, know what the risk means, know how to prevent it, and make changes to > your behaviour in order to protect yourself. > All of this is relevant for the COVID 10 pandemic, and much of it is not > working. We as educated adults see the risk, know the risk, know how to > protect ourselves (to the degree that scientists have informed us, and to > the degree that science knows about the transmission) and yet it is really > hard to change behaviour, to 'believe' that this is real > > And what does it mean for action? It means people don't social distance, > don't use masks, see themselves as infallible etc. > > The origin of actions/activity do/does not reside in cognition...we know > that from Activity theory, CHAT, etc. > > In the HIV pandemic in SA, there are still people who believe that you are > fine if you cant see the symptoms (loss of weight, skin conditions, > diarrohea - a fallacy by the way). A taxi driver said he would rather have > HIV than Covid 19 because he could 'see' that someone was or was not HIV > positive, but he is scared of Covid 19 because he cant 'see' it. Same > discourse, same consequences. > Then there was a period in SA where HIV public health messaging was about > showing coffins, and symbols of death to try to get people to take in the > seriousness of it all. Do we find this now? are those more directly > infected (someone in their family, seeing someone ill with Covid 19 - > doctors, nurses)- more convinced about the nature of the problem). Perhaps > not for some in the USA protesting this viral hoax. So, what changes > behaviour? > > The question is the same - what is the motive that drives the health > protection actions of individuals? The origin of behaviour is not > individual cognition. > > Uganda was seen to have been so effective in reducing HIV incidence > because it made HIV a notifiable disease. Is this draconian? Does it > infringe on individual rights? [In SA we have not done that, we have a > constitutional right to control and manage and keep private our HIV status; > AND we have huge levels of stigma (extreme fear of going for an HIV test in > a university context because people will 'see you there, and think you are > HIV positive). At the same time, young women at universities are afraid of > unplanned pregnancies because they are visible, (unlike HIV), and evidence > of sexual activity. So, contradictions and tensions in practices around > sexual activity in the context of 'risk' or vulnerability to HIV.] > Governments who can instruct people how to behave (ie take the > responsibility away from the individual) seem to have had more control over > the spread of the virus (SA during lockdown). So a rule or a law which > governs individual actions (and creating the context for an action, > prescribing what might be 'afforded' in the context) might be more > effective that the individual 'making a decision' > If condom use amongst young people is not a 'norm' it is difficult for one > person to engage with condom use. > > Do we need governments to set up the conditions for the actions of > individuals? > > Mary > > > > > > > > *Mary van der Riet (Phd), **Associate Professor* > *Discipline of Psychology, **School of Applied Human Sciences, College of > Humanities, University of KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa* > *email: vanderriet@ukzn.ac.za > **tel: +27 33 260 6163* > > ------------------------------ > *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Julian Williams > *Sent:* Saturday, 25 April 2020 20:24 > *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? > > Martin, David > > Yes a lot depends... on ?us?. > > Check out the report, where you can see how much was ?predicted? years > ago, even the possible public outrage ensuing government failures ; but yes > my decisive, main point was not to predict, but to ACT. > > David I agree the bioscience issues are important, but bear in mind that > our sloppy public health systems globally ( eg with wild life markets) > expose humanity to many new viruses ( they estimate 2-4 new viruses per > year) - our relations and actions shape this threat. > > Then also not just immediately, but imaginatively, to play with models > (and not just those reductive epidemiologists? ?predictions?) .. but to > imagineer a world subject that can act in future to tackle essentially > GLOBAL challenges. > > Best wishes > > Julian > > On 25 Apr 2020, at 18:10, Martin Packer wrote: > > That?s the problem with predicting - it all depends! :) > > Yes, coronavirus may become endemic, like flu or the common cold or > something worse. > > Or a vaccine may be developed. > > Or if 4 in 5 are somehow naturally resistant, and if most of the 1 in 5 > who become infected develop immunity as a result, the incidence of covid > could drop dramatically. > > Or we could all drink disinfectant. > > Martin > > > > On Apr 25, 2020, at 11:49 AM, David H Kirshner wrote: > > It is possible that the virus is eradicated, like SARS was, but that?s > increasingly unlikely. > More likely is that ?2019-nCoV joins the four coronaviruses now > circulating in people. ?I can imagine a scenario where this becomes a fifth > endemic human coronavirus,? said Stephen Morse of Columbia University?s > Mailman School of Public Health, an epidemiologist and expert on emerging > infectious diseases.? > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.statnews.com/2020/02/04/two-scenarios-if-new-coronavirus-isnt-contained/__;!!Mih3wA!W3kYRSYKCjIRm7e66tPBydkoLIVTivbqX_GKCUbNvM3cnU12woI1Ck_xyzredSBEk7a8-w$ > > > The fact that such a large proportion of people who contract the virus are > asymptomatic make this one very hard to contain. Of course, the possibility > of a vaccine would greatly reduce its human toll. > > David > > *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu *On > Behalf Of *Martin Packer > *Sent:* Saturday, April 25, 2020 11:14 AM > *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? > > David, > > There is talk about the possible eradication of the virus in Australia and > New Zealand, from what I have read. Eradication is difficult when no one > has resistance, but not impossible. Other virus infections have been > eradicated, as far as one can tell, such as smallpox. > > In Wuhan, where the infections started, which is a city of around 11 > million people, less that 70,000 cases were reported. Even if that is > vastly underreported by a factor of 10 it is less than 10%. And studies in > California suggest that only 1 in 5 have been infected, of whom 60% have > not experienced any symptoms. Only around 5% need hospitalization. > > Martin > > > > On Apr 25, 2020, at 10:46 AM, David H Kirshner wrote: > > Martin, > The scenario you sketched out is what I?d thought would/could happen, but > the epidemiologists don?t ever talk about eradicating the virus, they just > talk about slowing the spread so as not to overwhelm health care > facilities. Eventually, everyone who can get it will get it. So a > generation of older and weaker people will be adversely affected, many > dying. It?s only in the next generation when most people have gotten it > young that it will fade into the background, like the common cold. > David > > > *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu *On > Behalf Of *Martin Packer > *Sent:* Saturday, April 25, 2020 7:42 AM > *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? > > Julian, > > If no efforts are made to contain a virus it will move through a > population in a single wave, infecting many people and then disappearing as > no more potential hosts are available. > > If efforts to contain it ? lockdown ? are adequate there will be a single > much smaller wave, followed again by elimination as hosts are not available. > > If containment is not effective ? if people don?t isolate sufficiently ? > there may be a second wave when the containment is reduced. Or the first > wave may not be controlled. > > As you say, each country is responding differently. Australia seems close > to eliminating the virus after a single wave. The US and UK are somewhere > between starting a second wave and still being in a poorly controlled first > wave. Colombia seems to be still moving up its first wave. > > The behavior of a virus can be modeled, but only on the basis of > assumptions about how people are going to behave. Since we cannot predict > this behavior, we cannot even predict how the virus will or will not > spread, let alone the political, economic and social consequences. > > To say this is not to be pessimistic; pessimism would be predicting a dire > outcome. Rather, it highlights that the outcome lies in all our hands. > > Martin > > > > > > On Apr 25, 2020, at 1:43 AM, Julian Williams < > julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk> wrote: > > Andy/Greg > > Each nation state appears to be ?playing? the pandemic in different ways > (eg China, Italy, Australia, NZ, Sweden, UK, USA,? check out attached > report which comes from https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://pandemic.internationalsos.com/2019-ncov__;!!Mih3wA!W3kYRSYKCjIRm7e66tPBydkoLIVTivbqX_GKCUbNvM3cnU12woI1Ck_xyzredSDjm99zWA$ > > I get one of these reports every few days) while sometimes looking > to other countries to see how their numbers are growing/falling (and mostly > making a damn poor job of it). > > Before this all got going, the scientists already had a pretty good idea > how a pandemic works, and even what needed to be done to prepare for it: > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/revealed-uk-ministers-were-warned-last-year-of-risks-of-coronavirus-pandemic__;!!Mih3wA!W3kYRSYKCjIRm7e66tPBydkoLIVTivbqX_GKCUbNvM3cnU12woI1Ck_xyzredSAQWytKEw$ > > And now we know a bit more than we did then. > > There is a prediction/warning there about a number of pandemic waves? > > In the second ?wave?, we ? the world subject-in-formation may have learnt > more, maybe there will be fewer deaths? Maybe we will rescue WHO, maybe > not (I won?t predict). But maybe the science community will be paying > serious attention, and especially to its duty to the ?public good?. But > there are some contradictory signs. In my own university we seem to be > about to enter a new austerity, (implemented from the top by a failing > leadership, led by a true academic, bio scientist no less!) > > What is clear is that the ?public? and its social movements are key to > forcing each government to act, and that in almost all cases our leaders > and rulers have followed along reluctantly ? even while the science and the > pandemic plan was there. > > In the third and subsequent waves? I agree it?s not predictable: the > outcomes will depend entirely on all of ?us?. > > And in the next ?big one?, the climate collapse? Maybe all this pandemic > ?play? will have helped prepare us, we maybe will learn how to build the > institutions, policies etc for the world?s ?public good? in time. I still > have hope. > > I use Vygotsky-Leontiev?s idea of ?play? as the leading activity of the > pre-schooler, as I find it complements the notion of world perezhivanie ? > yes, we are experiencing trauma and that drives activity to overcome, etc, > but also in this play we are acting, reflecting, and always ? above all - > imagining and re-imagining (modelling etc) our world future. > > Julian > > > > *From: * on behalf of Andy Blunden < > andyb@marxists.org> > *Reply-To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > *Date: *Saturday, 25 April 2020 at 02:08 > *To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? > > Greg, the word is polysemic, as Mike said, but I agree with Michael that > *perezhivaniya* are essentially collective experiences. As I say in the > article, that COVID will be experienced differently in different countries, > by different classes and social groups is an important part of this > process. It does not detract it from its being a single experience. > Huw, a "world subject" is emergent at this moment. It is implicit or > "in-itself" but I look forward to the appearance of such a world subject, > though who know how long and through what traumas we will pass before it is > an actuality. Like WW2, the COVID pandemic part of its birth process. > > - https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/seminars/perezhivanie.htm__;!!Mih3wA!W3kYRSYKCjIRm7e66tPBydkoLIVTivbqX_GKCUbNvM3cnU12woI1Ck_xyzredSCiLQW2ow$ , > > Notes, links, excerpts, 2009 > - > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Blunden_article*response.pdf__;Kw!!Mih3wA!W3kYRSYKCjIRm7e66tPBydkoLIVTivbqX_GKCUbNvM3cnU12woI1Ck_xyzredSABxCHy8A$ > , > MCA article 2016 > - > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Coronavirus-pandemic.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!W3kYRSYKCjIRm7e66tPBydkoLIVTivbqX_GKCUbNvM3cnU12woI1Ck_xyzredSARVRsoIw$ > > > Andy > > ------------------------------ > *Andy Blunden* > Hegel for Social Movements > > Home Page > > On 25/04/2020 4:01 am, Greg Thompson wrote: > > I'm wondering about Andy's suggestion that covid-19 is a (or maybe "is > creating a"?) world perezhivanie. That seems a really rich suggestion but > I'm not sure how many of us on the list really understand what he means by > this. > > Andy tends to just tell me to go read more and so I'm wondering if someone > else might be willing to take a stab at explaining what he might mean. > > Also, as a critical intervention, I am wondering whether covid-19 is the > "same" for everyone. We have folks in the U.S. who think it is basically > just a typical flu that has been turned into a political tool to attack the > current president. Or does that not matter for perezhivanie? > > (and just to be clear, my question is not whether or not this is true or > right or beautiful to think this way; my question is whether or not this is > how people are actually experiencing the world since I assume that this is > what perezhivanie is supposed to be "getting at". Or am I misunderstanding > perezhivanie?) > > So is there really a shared perezhivanie here? > (Is The Problem of Age the place to look for answers?) > > But if no one wants to take this up (perhaps too much ink has been spilt > over perezhivanie?), that's fine too. > > Cheers, > greg > > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!W3kYRSYKCjIRm7e66tPBydkoLIVTivbqX_GKCUbNvM3cnU12woI1Ck_xyzredSDI_CdXxA$ > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!W3kYRSYKCjIRm7e66tPBydkoLIVTivbqX_GKCUbNvM3cnU12woI1Ck_xyzredSBvkNsI9A$ > > > > > > -- the creation of utopias ? and their exhaustive criticism ? is the proper and distinctive method of sociology. H.G.Wells --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200426/046440cb/attachment.html From Anne-Nelly.Perret-Clermont@unine.ch Sun Apr 26 11:45:52 2020 From: Anne-Nelly.Perret-Clermont@unine.ch (PERRET-CLERMONT Anne-Nelly) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2020 18:45:52 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? In-Reply-To: References: <7f661750-350f-9e76-d6b3-1598132af583@marxists.org> <1056380D-069C-40AE-934F-EA2A1212ACDB@manchester.ac.uk> <0E64BF76-A158-453E-B233-64D5E00625FA@cantab.net> <8DD6C766-811B-4B08-8B10-6ECA676FAA50@cantab.net> <04B33A84-A10E-4E3E-B7D4-358E9DD62EF6@manchester.ac.uk> , Message-ID: Mary, your question is very important to me. No simple answer. Governments can always try "to set up conditions" (to some extend they have to) but this does not mean that it will work (and if governments fall into the temptation of repression, they might discredit themselves). Trust has to be constructed, gained, felt, experienced, informed, verified, questioned,shared, etc. (perhaps not only governments but also scientists have not considered this sufficiently when they hope to be listened to). Trust is experienced within situated activities with partners. It is a complex socio-emotional-cognitive process that is always on the move. And in times of crisis, even more so. Latour's invitation sounds to me as an invitation to stop and reflect - and is also a source of hope : here and now, what is it that I care for? And who are my allies for that? In very concrete terms, what am I ready to transform in order to move in the direction that I cherish? What am I ready to leave aside because, in fact, I don't care that much for it? What are the very concrete obstacles that I meet (or would meet) if I try (or would try) to move according to my desires? What kind of creativity can I deploy to craft solutions? (The rewording of Latour's questions is my own). And now, if we start sharing these questions, feelings, preferences, trials, actions, hopes with our relatives, colleagues, students, neighbours, partners, sport groups, societies etc. we will discover new possibilities, new paths. Our worldview will change : we will become at the same time more "local" (not out-rooted from daily life, local places, actual partners of this dailylife and its resources) AND we will become more "global" (in the sense of more aware of the interdependencies on the whole Planet at all levels: bio-eco-socio-psycho-economico-institutional-etc). Our understanding of our possible "agency" will change too. And emotionally, we will gain opportunities to overcome anxieties in a constructive way and to enjoy the flow of the "hour glass" that Michael mentions. Well, this is just how I stand, feel, think in my place. It is a great experience to read you all, on this list, sharing personal and collective experiences from all over the world. Thanks. Let's continue, Anne-Nelly Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont University of Neuch?tel, Switzerland Le 26 avr. 2020 ? 19:31, mike cole a ?crit : ? Tough questions, Mary. Following upon Derek's note on my screen, it seemed that the evidence for an empirical evidence concerning your question about the motives of individual members of society when faced with visible versus invisible. Does it require a government to coerce people who fail "to get it?" I think in arguing that "The origin of actions/activity do/does not reside in cognition," emotions are the origin and in the case of a pandemic fear seems to be a sure bet. But in converting from, say, terror to reasoned action, cognition is certainly becomes involved, where cognition is understood to be "distributed, embodied, saturated with meanings and senses, etc." It seems that the challenge is to make the invisible, visible. Its the same principle as in discussions, of say, of the way that racism in American classrooms works in the activity as an invisible contributor to the structure of the ongoing flow of events. Several generations of ethnographers and novelists and film makers have in fact been able to make that process visible -- visible, and thus a possible object of activity to those are able to re-organize their ideologically given understand of their experience and the way the world works. A government, or some sort of "governmentality," seems essential. It seems we see several distinct models when we look at how visibility is accomplished in a wide variety of current world circumstances, as reporting from several parts of the world here testify. Thanks to all of those who have taken time to describe the local circumstances. The question of "what action" (the very "what is to be done") that the Russians contemplated a century ago. Its the question that Anne-Nelly invited people to answer on behalf of Latour. Its a question I am asking myself, as the hour glass runs out and others have been discussing. I am no more certain than Anne-Nelly. And the hour glass could be sneezed upon any day now. mike On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 1:42 AM Mary van der Riet > wrote: I am struck in all of these conversations of the similarities with the HIV pandemic . We face these issues daily in the Southern African region (the highest prevalence of HIV globally). We say 'it depends on us', and revert to information sharing, and dependence on cognitive shifts and adaptations (all of the old behaviour change theories Theory of Reasoned Action; Health Belief Models)- see the risk, know what the risk means, know how to prevent it, and make changes to your behaviour in order to protect yourself. All of this is relevant for the COVID 10 pandemic, and much of it is not working. We as educated adults see the risk, know the risk, know how to protect ourselves (to the degree that scientists have informed us, and to the degree that science knows about the transmission) and yet it is really hard to change behaviour, to 'believe' that this is real And what does it mean for action? It means people don't social distance, don't use masks, see themselves as infallible etc. The origin of actions/activity do/does not reside in cognition...we know that from Activity theory, CHAT, etc. In the HIV pandemic in SA, there are still people who believe that you are fine if you cant see the symptoms (loss of weight, skin conditions, diarrohea - a fallacy by the way). A taxi driver said he would rather have HIV than Covid 19 because he could 'see' that someone was or was not HIV positive, but he is scared of Covid 19 because he cant 'see' it. Same discourse, same consequences. Then there was a period in SA where HIV public health messaging was about showing coffins, and symbols of death to try to get people to take in the seriousness of it all. Do we find this now? are those more directly infected (someone in their family, seeing someone ill with Covid 19 - doctors, nurses)- more convinced about the nature of the problem). Perhaps not for some in the USA protesting this viral hoax. So, what changes behaviour? The question is the same - what is the motive that drives the health protection actions of individuals? The origin of behaviour is not individual cognition. Uganda was seen to have been so effective in reducing HIV incidence because it made HIV a notifiable disease. Is this draconian? Does it infringe on individual rights? [In SA we have not done that, we have a constitutional right to control and manage and keep private our HIV status; AND we have huge levels of stigma (extreme fear of going for an HIV test in a university context because people will 'see you there, and think you are HIV positive). At the same time, young women at universities are afraid of unplanned pregnancies because they are visible, (unlike HIV), and evidence of sexual activity. So, contradictions and tensions in practices around sexual activity in the context of 'risk' or vulnerability to HIV.] Governments who can instruct people how to behave (ie take the responsibility away from the individual) seem to have had more control over the spread of the virus (SA during lockdown). So a rule or a law which governs individual actions (and creating the context for an action, prescribing what might be 'afforded' in the context) might be more effective that the individual 'making a decision' If condom use amongst young people is not a 'norm' it is difficult for one person to engage with condom use. Do we need governments to set up the conditions for the actions of individuals? Mary Mary van der Riet (Phd), Associate Professor Discipline of Psychology, School of Applied Human Sciences, College of Humanities, University of KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa email: vanderriet@ukzn.ac.za tel: +27 33 260 6163 ________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Julian Williams > Sent: Saturday, 25 April 2020 20:24 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? Martin, David Yes a lot depends... on ?us?. Check out the report, where you can see how much was ?predicted? years ago, even the possible public outrage ensuing government failures ; but yes my decisive, main point was not to predict, but to ACT. David I agree the bioscience issues are important, but bear in mind that our sloppy public health systems globally ( eg with wild life markets) expose humanity to many new viruses ( they estimate 2-4 new viruses per year) - our relations and actions shape this threat. Then also not just immediately, but imaginatively, to play with models (and not just those reductive epidemiologists? ?predictions?) .. but to imagineer a world subject that can act in future to tackle essentially GLOBAL challenges. Best wishes Julian On 25 Apr 2020, at 18:10, Martin Packer > wrote: That?s the problem with predicting - it all depends! :) Yes, coronavirus may become endemic, like flu or the common cold or something worse. Or a vaccine may be developed. Or if 4 in 5 are somehow naturally resistant, and if most of the 1 in 5 who become infected develop immunity as a result, the incidence of covid could drop dramatically. Or we could all drink disinfectant. Martin On Apr 25, 2020, at 11:49 AM, David H Kirshner > wrote: It is possible that the virus is eradicated, like SARS was, but that?s increasingly unlikely. More likely is that ?2019-nCoV joins the four coronaviruses now circulating in people. ?I can imagine a scenario where this becomes a fifth endemic human coronavirus,? said Stephen Morse of Columbia University?s Mailman School of Public Health, an epidemiologist and expert on emerging infectious diseases.? https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.statnews.com/2020/02/04/two-scenarios-if-new-coronavirus-isnt-contained/__;!!Mih3wA!U6Q7qq3wNWdsnV9tvvTcd1J4PL59mt2ORqTAl87FAvfvkCVDyN_7RTcCh6exH_RNRiMwdA$ The fact that such a large proportion of people who contract the virus are asymptomatic make this one very hard to contain. Of course, the possibility of a vaccine would greatly reduce its human toll. David From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > On Behalf Of Martin Packer Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 11:14 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? David, There is talk about the possible eradication of the virus in Australia and New Zealand, from what I have read. Eradication is difficult when no one has resistance, but not impossible. Other virus infections have been eradicated, as far as one can tell, such as smallpox. In Wuhan, where the infections started, which is a city of around 11 million people, less that 70,000 cases were reported. Even if that is vastly underreported by a factor of 10 it is less than 10%. And studies in California suggest that only 1 in 5 have been infected, of whom 60% have not experienced any symptoms. Only around 5% need hospitalization. Martin On Apr 25, 2020, at 10:46 AM, David H Kirshner > wrote: Martin, The scenario you sketched out is what I?d thought would/could happen, but the epidemiologists don?t ever talk about eradicating the virus, they just talk about slowing the spread so as not to overwhelm health care facilities. Eventually, everyone who can get it will get it. So a generation of older and weaker people will be adversely affected, many dying. It?s only in the next generation when most people have gotten it young that it will fade into the background, like the common cold. David From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > On Behalf Of Martin Packer Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 7:42 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? Julian, If no efforts are made to contain a virus it will move through a population in a single wave, infecting many people and then disappearing as no more potential hosts are available. If efforts to contain it ? lockdown ? are adequate there will be a single much smaller wave, followed again by elimination as hosts are not available. If containment is not effective ? if people don?t isolate sufficiently ? there may be a second wave when the containment is reduced. Or the first wave may not be controlled. As you say, each country is responding differently. Australia seems close to eliminating the virus after a single wave. The US and UK are somewhere between starting a second wave and still being in a poorly controlled first wave. Colombia seems to be still moving up its first wave. The behavior of a virus can be modeled, but only on the basis of assumptions about how people are going to behave. Since we cannot predict this behavior, we cannot even predict how the virus will or will not spread, let alone the political, economic and social consequences. To say this is not to be pessimistic; pessimism would be predicting a dire outcome. Rather, it highlights that the outcome lies in all our hands. Martin On Apr 25, 2020, at 1:43 AM, Julian Williams > wrote: Andy/Greg Each nation state appears to be ?playing? the pandemic in different ways (eg China, Italy, Australia, NZ, Sweden, UK, USA,? check out attached report which comes from https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://pandemic.internationalsos.com/2019-ncov__;!!Mih3wA!U6Q7qq3wNWdsnV9tvvTcd1J4PL59mt2ORqTAl87FAvfvkCVDyN_7RTcCh6exH_Rr-2MMAA$ I get one of these reports every few days) while sometimes looking to other countries to see how their numbers are growing/falling (and mostly making a damn poor job of it). Before this all got going, the scientists already had a pretty good idea how a pandemic works, and even what needed to be done to prepare for it: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/revealed-uk-ministers-were-warned-last-year-of-risks-of-coronavirus-pandemic__;!!Mih3wA!U6Q7qq3wNWdsnV9tvvTcd1J4PL59mt2ORqTAl87FAvfvkCVDyN_7RTcCh6exH_RJM-T7lA$ And now we know a bit more than we did then. There is a prediction/warning there about a number of pandemic waves? In the second ?wave?, we ? the world subject-in-formation may have learnt more, maybe there will be fewer deaths? Maybe we will rescue WHO, maybe not (I won?t predict). But maybe the science community will be paying serious attention, and especially to its duty to the ?public good?. But there are some contradictory signs. In my own university we seem to be about to enter a new austerity, (implemented from the top by a failing leadership, led by a true academic, bio scientist no less!) What is clear is that the ?public? and its social movements are key to forcing each government to act, and that in almost all cases our leaders and rulers have followed along reluctantly ? even while the science and the pandemic plan was there. In the third and subsequent waves? I agree it?s not predictable: the outcomes will depend entirely on all of ?us?. And in the next ?big one?, the climate collapse? Maybe all this pandemic ?play? will have helped prepare us, we maybe will learn how to build the institutions, policies etc for the world?s ?public good? in time. I still have hope. I use Vygotsky-Leontiev?s idea of ?play? as the leading activity of the pre-schooler, as I find it complements the notion of world perezhivanie ? yes, we are experiencing trauma and that drives activity to overcome, etc, but also in this play we are acting, reflecting, and always ? above all - imagining and re-imagining (modelling etc) our world future. Julian From: > on behalf of Andy Blunden > Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Date: Saturday, 25 April 2020 at 02:08 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? Greg, the word is polysemic, as Mike said, but I agree with Michael that perezhivaniya are essentially collective experiences. As I say in the article, that COVID will be experienced differently in different countries, by different classes and social groups is an important part of this process. It does not detract it from its being a single experience. Huw, a "world subject" is emergent at this moment. It is implicit or "in-itself" but I look forward to the appearance of such a world subject, though who know how long and through what traumas we will pass before it is an actuality. Like WW2, the COVID pandemic part of its birth process. * https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/seminars/perezhivanie.htm__;!!Mih3wA!U6Q7qq3wNWdsnV9tvvTcd1J4PL59mt2ORqTAl87FAvfvkCVDyN_7RTcCh6exH_Q8Eo127g$ , Notes, links, excerpts, 2009 * https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Blunden_article*response.pdf__;Kw!!Mih3wA!U6Q7qq3wNWdsnV9tvvTcd1J4PL59mt2ORqTAl87FAvfvkCVDyN_7RTcCh6exH_RvuE10Pw$ , MCA article 2016 * https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Coronavirus-pandemic.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!U6Q7qq3wNWdsnV9tvvTcd1J4PL59mt2ORqTAl87FAvfvkCVDyN_7RTcCh6exH_TJpz7DOg$ Andy ________________________________ Andy Blunden Hegel for Social Movements Home Page On 25/04/2020 4:01 am, Greg Thompson wrote: I'm wondering about Andy's suggestion that covid-19 is a (or maybe "is creating a"?) world perezhivanie. That seems a really rich suggestion but I'm not sure how many of us on the list really understand what he means by this. Andy tends to just tell me to go read more and so I'm wondering if someone else might be willing to take a stab at explaining what he might mean. Also, as a critical intervention, I am wondering whether covid-19 is the "same" for everyone. We have folks in the U.S. who think it is basically just a typical flu that has been turned into a political tool to attack the current president. Or does that not matter for perezhivanie? (and just to be clear, my question is not whether or not this is true or right or beautiful to think this way; my question is whether or not this is how people are actually experiencing the world since I assume that this is what perezhivanie is supposed to be "getting at". Or am I misunderstanding perezhivanie?) So is there really a shared perezhivanie here? (Is The Problem of Age the place to look for answers?) But if no one wants to take this up (perhaps too much ink has been spilt over perezhivanie?), that's fine too. Cheers, greg -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!U6Q7qq3wNWdsnV9tvvTcd1J4PL59mt2ORqTAl87FAvfvkCVDyN_7RTcCh6exH_TMiKtEPQ$ https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!U6Q7qq3wNWdsnV9tvvTcd1J4PL59mt2ORqTAl87FAvfvkCVDyN_7RTcCh6exH_SYTX4BMQ$ -- the creation of utopias ? and their exhaustive criticism ? is the proper and distinctive method of sociology. H.G.Wells --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200426/a777e73e/attachment.html From mpacker@cantab.net Sun Apr 26 12:38:21 2020 From: mpacker@cantab.net (Martin Packer) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2020 14:38:21 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? In-Reply-To: References: <7f661750-350f-9e76-d6b3-1598132af583@marxists.org> <1056380D-069C-40AE-934F-EA2A1212ACDB@manchester.ac.uk> <0E64BF76-A158-453E-B233-64D5E00625FA@cantab.net> <8DD6C766-811B-4B08-8B10-6ECA676FAA50@cantab.net> <04B33A84-A10E-4E3E-B7D4-358E9DD62EF6@manchester.ac.uk> Message-ID: Thanks to Mary and David for providing ?local' accounts? To take a shot at Mary?s question, Do we need governments to set up the conditions for the actions of individuals? - it seems that David?s answer is, we don't when there is a 'flexible and cooperative mindset,? perhaps forged in previous shared difficulties. Perhaps that applies to S. Korea as well. I suppose it should not be surprising that the most individualistic nations, the UK and US, seem to be having the greatest difficulty in coming together to face the situation. But even there, between individual and national government are a set of institutions that I think could play an important role in guiding people?s actions. Some simple examples that come to mind. Here, banks are expanding online services and dropping charges for online transfers, thus removing a barrier, albeit small, to providing financial assistance. Stores are creating symbolic markers that make visible safer interpersonal distance ? simple things like tape on the floor. I don?t know what stance the various religious institutions are taking. These are small steps, but they help nudge individual actions in the right direction. As for making visible the virus and the illness, of course the charts make visible aspects of infection. Tests, when they are available, create markers of infection and, hopefully, immunity. I worry that the media?s focus on the extremely ill may not encourage people to make sensible choices. One of the problems with staying at home is that while avoiding direct contact is healthy, it also prevents first-hand experience of the illness for most people. Martin > On Apr 26, 2020, at 3:40 AM, Mary van der Riet wrote: > > I am struck in all of these conversations of the similarities with the HIV pandemic . We face these issues daily in the Southern African region (the highest prevalence of HIV globally). > We say 'it depends on us', and revert to information sharing, and dependence on cognitive shifts and adaptations (all of the old behaviour change theories Theory of Reasoned Action; Health Belief Models)- see the risk, know what the risk means, know how to prevent it, and make changes to your behaviour in order to protect yourself. > All of this is relevant for the COVID 10 pandemic, and much of it is not working. We as educated adults see the risk, know the risk, know how to protect ourselves (to the degree that scientists have informed us, and to the degree that science knows about the transmission) and yet it is really hard to change behaviour, to 'believe' that this is real > > And what does it mean for action? It means people don't social distance, don't use masks, see themselves as infallible etc. > > The origin of actions/activity do/does not reside in cognition...we know that from Activity theory, CHAT, etc. > > In the HIV pandemic in SA, there are still people who believe that you are fine if you cant see the symptoms (loss of weight, skin conditions, diarrohea - a fallacy by the way). A taxi driver said he would rather have HIV than Covid 19 because he could 'see' that someone was or was not HIV positive, but he is scared of Covid 19 because he cant 'see' it. Same discourse, same consequences. > Then there was a period in SA where HIV public health messaging was about showing coffins, and symbols of death to try to get people to take in the seriousness of it all. Do we find this now? are those more directly infected (someone in their family, seeing someone ill with Covid 19 - doctors, nurses)- more convinced about the nature of the problem). Perhaps not for some in the USA protesting this viral hoax. So, what changes behaviour? > > The question is the same - what is the motive that drives the health protection actions of individuals? The origin of behaviour is not individual cognition. > > Uganda was seen to have been so effective in reducing HIV incidence because it made HIV a notifiable disease. Is this draconian? Does it infringe on individual rights? [In SA we have not done that, we have a constitutional right to control and manage and keep private our HIV status; AND we have huge levels of stigma (extreme fear of going for an HIV test in a university context because people will 'see you there, and think you are HIV positive). At the same time, young women at universities are afraid of unplanned pregnancies because they are visible, (unlike HIV), and evidence of sexual activity. So, contradictions and tensions in practices around sexual activity in the context of 'risk' or vulnerability to HIV.] Governments who can instruct people how to behave (ie take the responsibility away from the individual) seem to have had more control over the spread of the virus (SA during lockdown). So a rule or a law which governs individual actions (and creating the context for an action, prescribing what might be 'afforded' in the context) might be more effective that the individual 'making a decision' > If condom use amongst young people is not a 'norm' it is difficult for one person to engage with condom use. > > Do we need governments to set up the conditions for the actions of individuals? > > Mary > > > > > > > > Mary van der Riet (Phd), Associate Professor > Discipline of Psychology, School of Applied Human Sciences, College of Humanities, University of KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa > email: vanderriet@ukzn.ac.za tel: +27 33 260 6163 > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Julian Williams > > Sent: Saturday, 25 April 2020 20:24 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? > > Martin, David > > Yes a lot depends... on ?us?. > > Check out the report, where you can see how much was ?predicted? years ago, even the possible public outrage ensuing government failures ; but yes my decisive, main point was not to predict, but to ACT. > > David I agree the bioscience issues are important, but bear in mind that our sloppy public health systems globally ( eg with wild life markets) expose humanity to many new viruses ( they estimate 2-4 new viruses per year) - our relations and actions shape this threat. > > Then also not just immediately, but imaginatively, to play with models (and not just those reductive epidemiologists? ?predictions?) .. but to imagineer a world subject that can act in future to tackle essentially GLOBAL challenges. > > Best wishes > > Julian > > On 25 Apr 2020, at 18:10, Martin Packer > wrote: > >> That?s the problem with predicting - it all depends! :) >> >> Yes, coronavirus may become endemic, like flu or the common cold or something worse. >> >> Or a vaccine may be developed. >> >> Or if 4 in 5 are somehow naturally resistant, and if most of the 1 in 5 who become infected develop immunity as a result, the incidence of covid could drop dramatically. >> >> Or we could all drink disinfectant. >> >> Martin >> >> >> >>> On Apr 25, 2020, at 11:49 AM, David H Kirshner > wrote: >>> >>> It is possible that the virus is eradicated, like SARS was, but that?s increasingly unlikely. >>> More likely is that ?2019-nCoV joins the four coronaviruses now circulating in people. ?I can imagine a scenario where this becomes a fifth endemic human coronavirus,? said Stephen Morse of Columbia University?s Mailman School of Public Health, an epidemiologist and expert on emerging infectious diseases.? >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.statnews.com/2020/02/04/two-scenarios-if-new-coronavirus-isnt-contained/__;!!Mih3wA!WegGIWWaMAIh3yyt26ygYaUiDasrQKMAOuXxd49JAYH-02wxXsEDbYRtzt-Z_xL74wTJew$ >>> >>> The fact that such a large proportion of people who contract the virus are asymptomatic make this one very hard to contain. Of course, the possibility of a vaccine would greatly reduce its human toll. >>> >>> David >>> >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > On Behalf Of Martin Packer >>> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 11:14 AM >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? >>> >>> David, >>> >>> There is talk about the possible eradication of the virus in Australia and New Zealand, from what I have read. Eradication is difficult when no one has resistance, but not impossible. Other virus infections have been eradicated, as far as one can tell, such as smallpox. >>> >>> In Wuhan, where the infections started, which is a city of around 11 million people, less that 70,000 cases were reported. Even if that is vastly underreported by a factor of 10 it is less than 10%. And studies in California suggest that only 1 in 5 have been infected, of whom 60% have not experienced any symptoms. Only around 5% need hospitalization. >>> >>> Martin >>> >>> >>> >>> On Apr 25, 2020, at 10:46 AM, David H Kirshner > wrote: >>> >>> Martin, >>> The scenario you sketched out is what I?d thought would/could happen, but the epidemiologists don?t ever talk about eradicating the virus, they just talk about slowing the spread so as not to overwhelm health care facilities. Eventually, everyone who can get it will get it. So a generation of older and weaker people will be adversely affected, many dying. It?s only in the next generation when most people have gotten it young that it will fade into the background, like the common cold. >>> David >>> >>> >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > On Behalf Of Martin Packer >>> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 7:42 AM >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? >>> >>> Julian, >>> >>> If no efforts are made to contain a virus it will move through a population in a single wave, infecting many people and then disappearing as no more potential hosts are available. >>> >>> If efforts to contain it ? lockdown ? are adequate there will be a single much smaller wave, followed again by elimination as hosts are not available. >>> >>> If containment is not effective ? if people don?t isolate sufficiently ? there may be a second wave when the containment is reduced. Or the first wave may not be controlled. >>> >>> As you say, each country is responding differently. Australia seems close to eliminating the virus after a single wave. The US and UK are somewhere between starting a second wave and still being in a poorly controlled first wave. Colombia seems to be still moving up its first wave. >>> >>> The behavior of a virus can be modeled, but only on the basis of assumptions about how people are going to behave. Since we cannot predict this behavior, we cannot even predict how the virus will or will not spread, let alone the political, economic and social consequences. >>> >>> To say this is not to be pessimistic; pessimism would be predicting a dire outcome. Rather, it highlights that the outcome lies in all our hands. >>> >>> Martin >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Apr 25, 2020, at 1:43 AM, Julian Williams > wrote: >>> >>> Andy/Greg >>> >>> Each nation state appears to be ?playing? the pandemic in different ways (eg China, Italy, Australia, NZ, Sweden, UK, USA,? check out attached report which comes from https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://pandemic.internationalsos.com/2019-ncov__;!!Mih3wA!WegGIWWaMAIh3yyt26ygYaUiDasrQKMAOuXxd49JAYH-02wxXsEDbYRtzt-Z_xLWxdJmGA$ I get one of these reports every few days) while sometimes looking to other countries to see how their numbers are growing/falling (and mostly making a damn poor job of it). >>> >>> Before this all got going, the scientists already had a pretty good idea how a pandemic works, and even what needed to be done to prepare for it: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/revealed-uk-ministers-were-warned-last-year-of-risks-of-coronavirus-pandemic__;!!Mih3wA!WegGIWWaMAIh3yyt26ygYaUiDasrQKMAOuXxd49JAYH-02wxXsEDbYRtzt-Z_xLgT76yIQ$ >>> And now we know a bit more than we did then. >>> >>> There is a prediction/warning there about a number of pandemic waves? >>> >>> In the second ?wave?, we ? the world subject-in-formation may have learnt more, maybe there will be fewer deaths? Maybe we will rescue WHO, maybe not (I won?t predict). But maybe the science community will be paying serious attention, and especially to its duty to the ?public good?. But there are some contradictory signs. In my own university we seem to be about to enter a new austerity, (implemented from the top by a failing leadership, led by a true academic, bio scientist no less!) >>> >>> What is clear is that the ?public? and its social movements are key to forcing each government to act, and that in almost all cases our leaders and rulers have followed along reluctantly ? even while the science and the pandemic plan was there. >>> >>> In the third and subsequent waves? I agree it?s not predictable: the outcomes will depend entirely on all of ?us?. >>> >>> And in the next ?big one?, the climate collapse? Maybe all this pandemic ?play? will have helped prepare us, we maybe will learn how to build the institutions, policies etc for the world?s ?public good? in time. I still have hope. >>> >>> I use Vygotsky-Leontiev?s idea of ?play? as the leading activity of the pre-schooler, as I find it complements the notion of world perezhivanie ? yes, we are experiencing trauma and that drives activity to overcome, etc, but also in this play we are acting, reflecting, and always ? above all - imagining and re-imagining (modelling etc) our world future. >>> >>> Julian >>> >>> >>> >>> From: > on behalf of Andy Blunden > >>> Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > >>> Date: Saturday, 25 April 2020 at 02:08 >>> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? >>> >>> Greg, the word is polysemic, as Mike said, but I agree with Michael that perezhivaniya are essentially collective experiences. As I say in the article, that COVID will be experienced differently in different countries, by different classes and social groups is an important part of this process. It does not detract it from its being a single experience. >>> Huw, a "world subject" is emergent at this moment. It is implicit or "in-itself" but I look forward to the appearance of such a world subject, though who know how long and through what traumas we will pass before it is an actuality. Like WW2, the COVID pandemic part of its birth process. >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/seminars/perezhivanie.htm__;!!Mih3wA!WegGIWWaMAIh3yyt26ygYaUiDasrQKMAOuXxd49JAYH-02wxXsEDbYRtzt-Z_xLvTV2NHw$ , Notes, links, excerpts, 2009 >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Blunden_article*response.pdf__;Kw!!Mih3wA!WegGIWWaMAIh3yyt26ygYaUiDasrQKMAOuXxd49JAYH-02wxXsEDbYRtzt-Z_xJeJrc8sw$ , MCA article 2016 >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Coronavirus-pandemic.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!WegGIWWaMAIh3yyt26ygYaUiDasrQKMAOuXxd49JAYH-02wxXsEDbYRtzt-Z_xIuI3pE0g$ >>> Andy >>> >>> Andy Blunden >>> Hegel for Social Movements >>> Home Page >>> On 25/04/2020 4:01 am, Greg Thompson wrote: >>> I'm wondering about Andy's suggestion that covid-19 is a (or maybe "is creating a"?) world perezhivanie. That seems a really rich suggestion but I'm not sure how many of us on the list really understand what he means by this. >>> >>> Andy tends to just tell me to go read more and so I'm wondering if someone else might be willing to take a stab at explaining what he might mean. >>> >>> Also, as a critical intervention, I am wondering whether covid-19 is the "same" for everyone. We have folks in the U.S. who think it is basically just a typical flu that has been turned into a political tool to attack the current president. Or does that not matter for perezhivanie? >>> >>> (and just to be clear, my question is not whether or not this is true or right or beautiful to think this way; my question is whether or not this is how people are actually experiencing the world since I assume that this is what perezhivanie is supposed to be "getting at". Or am I misunderstanding perezhivanie?) >>> >>> So is there really a shared perezhivanie here? >>> (Is The Problem of Age the place to look for answers?) >>> >>> But if no one wants to take this up (perhaps too much ink has been spilt over perezhivanie?), that's fine too. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> greg >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>> Assistant Professor >>> Department of Anthropology >>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >>> Brigham Young University >>> Provo, UT 84602 >>> WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!WegGIWWaMAIh3yyt26ygYaUiDasrQKMAOuXxd49JAYH-02wxXsEDbYRtzt-Z_xKVEl32NQ$ >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!WegGIWWaMAIh3yyt26ygYaUiDasrQKMAOuXxd49JAYH-02wxXsEDbYRtzt-Z_xKiusKCww$ >>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200426/bbd43d49/attachment.html From mcole@ucsd.edu Sun Apr 26 12:51:33 2020 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2020 12:51:33 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? In-Reply-To: References: <7f661750-350f-9e76-d6b3-1598132af583@marxists.org> <1056380D-069C-40AE-934F-EA2A1212ACDB@manchester.ac.uk> <0E64BF76-A158-453E-B233-64D5E00625FA@cantab.net> <8DD6C766-811B-4B08-8B10-6ECA676FAA50@cantab.net> <04B33A84-A10E-4E3E-B7D4-358E9DD62EF6@manchester.ac.uk> Message-ID: You raise a point that links to Mary's description, Martin *As for making visible the virus and the illness, of course the charts make visible aspects of infection. * I think that the ability to glance at a chart and interpret it is likely to be a semiotic means not readily available to those without education to interpret them. Or to rely on the source of information from this they come -- A government they have lost trust in. Professional vision, so to speak. mike On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 12:41 PM Martin Packer wrote: > Thanks to Mary and David for providing ?local' accounts? > > To take a shot at Mary?s question, Do we need governments to set up the > conditions for the actions of individuals? - it seems that David?s answer > is, we don't when there is a 'flexible and cooperative mindset,? perhaps > forged in previous shared difficulties. Perhaps that applies to S. Korea as > well. > > I suppose it should not be surprising that the most individualistic > nations, the UK and US, seem to be having the greatest difficulty in coming > together to face the situation. But even there, between individual and > national government are a set of institutions that I think could play an > important role in guiding people?s actions. > > Some simple examples that come to mind. Here, banks are expanding online > services and dropping charges for online transfers, thus removing a > barrier, albeit small, to providing financial assistance. Stores are > creating symbolic markers that make visible safer interpersonal distance ? > simple things like tape on the floor. I don?t know what stance the various > religious institutions are taking. These are small steps, but they help > nudge individual actions in the right direction. > > As for making visible the virus and the illness, of course the charts make > visible aspects of infection. Tests, when they are available, create > markers of infection and, hopefully, immunity. I worry that the media?s > focus on the extremely ill may not encourage people to make sensible > choices. > > One of the problems with staying at home is that while avoiding direct > contact is healthy, it also prevents first-hand experience of the illness > for most people. > > Martin > > > > > On Apr 26, 2020, at 3:40 AM, Mary van der Riet > wrote: > > I am struck in all of these conversations of the similarities with the HIV > pandemic . We face these issues daily in the Southern African region (the > highest prevalence of HIV globally). > We say 'it depends on us', and revert to information sharing, and > dependence on cognitive shifts and adaptations (all of the old behaviour > change theories Theory of Reasoned Action; Health Belief Models)- see the > risk, know what the risk means, know how to prevent it, and make changes to > your behaviour in order to protect yourself. > All of this is relevant for the COVID 10 pandemic, and much of it is not > working. We as educated adults see the risk, know the risk, know how to > protect ourselves (to the degree that scientists have informed us, and to > the degree that science knows about the transmission) and yet it is really > hard to change behaviour, to 'believe' that this is real > > And what does it mean for action? It means people don't social distance, > don't use masks, see themselves as infallible etc. > > The origin of actions/activity do/does not reside in cognition...we know > that from Activity theory, CHAT, etc. > > In the HIV pandemic in SA, there are still people who believe that you are > fine if you cant see the symptoms (loss of weight, skin conditions, > diarrohea - a fallacy by the way). A taxi driver said he would rather have > HIV than Covid 19 because he could 'see' that someone was or was not HIV > positive, but he is scared of Covid 19 because he cant 'see' it. Same > discourse, same consequences. > Then there was a period in SA where HIV public health messaging was about > showing coffins, and symbols of death to try to get people to take in the > seriousness of it all. Do we find this now? are those more directly > infected (someone in their family, seeing someone ill with Covid 19 - > doctors, nurses)- more convinced about the nature of the problem). Perhaps > not for some in the USA protesting this viral hoax. So, what changes > behaviour? > > The question is the same - what is the motive that drives the health > protection actions of individuals? The origin of behaviour is not > individual cognition. > > Uganda was seen to have been so effective in reducing HIV incidence > because it made HIV a notifiable disease. Is this draconian? Does it > infringe on individual rights? [In SA we have not done that, we have a > constitutional right to control and manage and keep private our HIV status; > AND we have huge levels of stigma (extreme fear of going for an HIV test in > a university context because people will 'see you there, and think you are > HIV positive). At the same time, young women at universities are afraid of > unplanned pregnancies because they are visible, (unlike HIV), and evidence > of sexual activity. So, contradictions and tensions in practices around > sexual activity in the context of 'risk' or vulnerability to HIV.] > Governments who can instruct people how to behave (ie take the > responsibility away from the individual) seem to have had more control over > the spread of the virus (SA during lockdown). So a rule or a law which > governs individual actions (and creating the context for an action, > prescribing what might be 'afforded' in the context) might be more > effective that the individual 'making a decision' > If condom use amongst young people is not a 'norm' it is difficult for one > person to engage with condom use. > > Do we need governments to set up the conditions for the actions of > individuals? > > Mary > > > > > > > > *Mary van der Riet (Phd), **Associate Professor* > *Discipline of Psychology, **School of Applied Human Sciences, College of > Humanities, University of KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa* > *email: vanderriet@ukzn.ac.za > **tel: +27 33 260 6163* > > ------------------------------ > *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Julian Williams > *Sent:* Saturday, 25 April 2020 20:24 > *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? > > Martin, David > > Yes a lot depends... on ?us?. > > Check out the report, where you can see how much was ?predicted? years > ago, even the possible public outrage ensuing government failures ; but yes > my decisive, main point was not to predict, but to ACT. > > David I agree the bioscience issues are important, but bear in mind that > our sloppy public health systems globally ( eg with wild life markets) > expose humanity to many new viruses ( they estimate 2-4 new viruses per > year) - our relations and actions shape this threat. > > Then also not just immediately, but imaginatively, to play with models > (and not just those reductive epidemiologists? ?predictions?) .. but to > imagineer a world subject that can act in future to tackle essentially > GLOBAL challenges. > > Best wishes > > Julian > > On 25 Apr 2020, at 18:10, Martin Packer wrote: > > That?s the problem with predicting - it all depends! :) > > Yes, coronavirus may become endemic, like flu or the common cold or > something worse. > > Or a vaccine may be developed. > > Or if 4 in 5 are somehow naturally resistant, and if most of the 1 in 5 > who become infected develop immunity as a result, the incidence of covid > could drop dramatically. > > Or we could all drink disinfectant. > > Martin > > > > On Apr 25, 2020, at 11:49 AM, David H Kirshner wrote: > > It is possible that the virus is eradicated, like SARS was, but that?s > increasingly unlikely. > More likely is that ?2019-nCoV joins the four coronaviruses now > circulating in people. ?I can imagine a scenario where this becomes a fifth > endemic human coronavirus,? said Stephen Morse of Columbia University?s > Mailman School of Public Health, an epidemiologist and expert on emerging > infectious diseases.? > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.statnews.com/2020/02/04/two-scenarios-if-new-coronavirus-isnt-contained/__;!!Mih3wA!SF3XoFGPv9cubzgCl6HS4nBy2aPj9S3CBpxHFJbZIkIXynb87HoI1BKhtq12JRYmSfSjJQ$ > > > The fact that such a large proportion of people who contract the virus are > asymptomatic make this one very hard to contain. Of course, the possibility > of a vaccine would greatly reduce its human toll. > > David > > *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu *On > Behalf Of *Martin Packer > *Sent:* Saturday, April 25, 2020 11:14 AM > *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? > > David, > > There is talk about the possible eradication of the virus in Australia and > New Zealand, from what I have read. Eradication is difficult when no one > has resistance, but not impossible. Other virus infections have been > eradicated, as far as one can tell, such as smallpox. > > In Wuhan, where the infections started, which is a city of around 11 > million people, less that 70,000 cases were reported. Even if that is > vastly underreported by a factor of 10 it is less than 10%. And studies in > California suggest that only 1 in 5 have been infected, of whom 60% have > not experienced any symptoms. Only around 5% need hospitalization. > > Martin > > > > On Apr 25, 2020, at 10:46 AM, David H Kirshner wrote: > > Martin, > The scenario you sketched out is what I?d thought would/could happen, but > the epidemiologists don?t ever talk about eradicating the virus, they just > talk about slowing the spread so as not to overwhelm health care > facilities. Eventually, everyone who can get it will get it. So a > generation of older and weaker people will be adversely affected, many > dying. It?s only in the next generation when most people have gotten it > young that it will fade into the background, like the common cold. > David > > > *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu *On > Behalf Of *Martin Packer > *Sent:* Saturday, April 25, 2020 7:42 AM > *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? > > Julian, > > If no efforts are made to contain a virus it will move through a > population in a single wave, infecting many people and then disappearing as > no more potential hosts are available. > > If efforts to contain it ? lockdown ? are adequate there will be a single > much smaller wave, followed again by elimination as hosts are not available. > > If containment is not effective ? if people don?t isolate sufficiently ? > there may be a second wave when the containment is reduced. Or the first > wave may not be controlled. > > As you say, each country is responding differently. Australia seems close > to eliminating the virus after a single wave. The US and UK are somewhere > between starting a second wave and still being in a poorly controlled first > wave. Colombia seems to be still moving up its first wave. > > The behavior of a virus can be modeled, but only on the basis of > assumptions about how people are going to behave. Since we cannot predict > this behavior, we cannot even predict how the virus will or will not > spread, let alone the political, economic and social consequences. > > To say this is not to be pessimistic; pessimism would be predicting a dire > outcome. Rather, it highlights that the outcome lies in all our hands. > > Martin > > > > > > On Apr 25, 2020, at 1:43 AM, Julian Williams < > julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk> wrote: > > Andy/Greg > > Each nation state appears to be ?playing? the pandemic in different ways > (eg China, Italy, Australia, NZ, Sweden, UK, USA,? check out attached > report which comes from https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://pandemic.internationalsos.com/2019-ncov__;!!Mih3wA!SF3XoFGPv9cubzgCl6HS4nBy2aPj9S3CBpxHFJbZIkIXynb87HoI1BKhtq12JRarhC-tnQ$ > > I get one of these reports every few days) while sometimes looking > to other countries to see how their numbers are growing/falling (and mostly > making a damn poor job of it). > > Before this all got going, the scientists already had a pretty good idea > how a pandemic works, and even what needed to be done to prepare for it: > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/revealed-uk-ministers-were-warned-last-year-of-risks-of-coronavirus-pandemic__;!!Mih3wA!SF3XoFGPv9cubzgCl6HS4nBy2aPj9S3CBpxHFJbZIkIXynb87HoI1BKhtq12JRYah4epQg$ > > And now we know a bit more than we did then. > > There is a prediction/warning there about a number of pandemic waves? > > In the second ?wave?, we ? the world subject-in-formation may have learnt > more, maybe there will be fewer deaths? Maybe we will rescue WHO, maybe > not (I won?t predict). But maybe the science community will be paying > serious attention, and especially to its duty to the ?public good?. But > there are some contradictory signs. In my own university we seem to be > about to enter a new austerity, (implemented from the top by a failing > leadership, led by a true academic, bio scientist no less!) > > What is clear is that the ?public? and its social movements are key to > forcing each government to act, and that in almost all cases our leaders > and rulers have followed along reluctantly ? even while the science and the > pandemic plan was there. > > In the third and subsequent waves? I agree it?s not predictable: the > outcomes will depend entirely on all of ?us?. > > And in the next ?big one?, the climate collapse? Maybe all this pandemic > ?play? will have helped prepare us, we maybe will learn how to build the > institutions, policies etc for the world?s ?public good? in time. I still > have hope. > > I use Vygotsky-Leontiev?s idea of ?play? as the leading activity of the > pre-schooler, as I find it complements the notion of world perezhivanie ? > yes, we are experiencing trauma and that drives activity to overcome, etc, > but also in this play we are acting, reflecting, and always ? above all - > imagining and re-imagining (modelling etc) our world future. > > Julian > > > > *From: * on behalf of Andy Blunden < > andyb@marxists.org> > *Reply-To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > *Date: *Saturday, 25 April 2020 at 02:08 > *To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? > > Greg, the word is polysemic, as Mike said, but I agree with Michael that > *perezhivaniya* are essentially collective experiences. As I say in the > article, that COVID will be experienced differently in different countries, > by different classes and social groups is an important part of this > process. It does not detract it from its being a single experience. > Huw, a "world subject" is emergent at this moment. It is implicit or > "in-itself" but I look forward to the appearance of such a world subject, > though who know how long and through what traumas we will pass before it is > an actuality. Like WW2, the COVID pandemic part of its birth process. > > - https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/seminars/perezhivanie.htm__;!!Mih3wA!SF3XoFGPv9cubzgCl6HS4nBy2aPj9S3CBpxHFJbZIkIXynb87HoI1BKhtq12JRb_YQKPUg$ , > > Notes, links, excerpts, 2009 > - > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Blunden_article*response.pdf__;Kw!!Mih3wA!SF3XoFGPv9cubzgCl6HS4nBy2aPj9S3CBpxHFJbZIkIXynb87HoI1BKhtq12JRbI7xTHpg$ > , > MCA article 2016 > - > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Coronavirus-pandemic.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!SF3XoFGPv9cubzgCl6HS4nBy2aPj9S3CBpxHFJbZIkIXynb87HoI1BKhtq12JRYuZSeZuw$ > > > Andy > > ------------------------------ > *Andy Blunden* > Hegel for Social Movements > > Home Page > > On 25/04/2020 4:01 am, Greg Thompson wrote: > > I'm wondering about Andy's suggestion that covid-19 is a (or maybe "is > creating a"?) world perezhivanie. That seems a really rich suggestion but > I'm not sure how many of us on the list really understand what he means by > this. > > Andy tends to just tell me to go read more and so I'm wondering if someone > else might be willing to take a stab at explaining what he might mean. > > Also, as a critical intervention, I am wondering whether covid-19 is the > "same" for everyone. We have folks in the U.S. who think it is basically > just a typical flu that has been turned into a political tool to attack the > current president. Or does that not matter for perezhivanie? > > (and just to be clear, my question is not whether or not this is true or > right or beautiful to think this way; my question is whether or not this is > how people are actually experiencing the world since I assume that this is > what perezhivanie is supposed to be "getting at". Or am I misunderstanding > perezhivanie?) > > So is there really a shared perezhivanie here? > (Is The Problem of Age the place to look for answers?) > > But if no one wants to take this up (perhaps too much ink has been spilt > over perezhivanie?), that's fine too. > > Cheers, > greg > > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!SF3XoFGPv9cubzgCl6HS4nBy2aPj9S3CBpxHFJbZIkIXynb87HoI1BKhtq12JRYCQG0Z0w$ > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!SF3XoFGPv9cubzgCl6HS4nBy2aPj9S3CBpxHFJbZIkIXynb87HoI1BKhtq12JRZQPT5bMA$ > > > > > > -- the creation of utopias ? and their exhaustive criticism ? is the proper and distinctive method of sociology. H.G.Wells --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200426/40e24aa2/attachment.html From anthonymbarra@gmail.com Sun Apr 26 13:28:56 2020 From: anthonymbarra@gmail.com (Anthony Barra) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2020 16:28:56 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? In-Reply-To: References: <7f661750-350f-9e76-d6b3-1598132af583@marxists.org> <1056380D-069C-40AE-934F-EA2A1212ACDB@manchester.ac.uk> <0E64BF76-A158-453E-B233-64D5E00625FA@cantab.net> <8DD6C766-811B-4B08-8B10-6ECA676FAA50@cantab.net> <04B33A84-A10E-4E3E-B7D4-358E9DD62EF6@manchester.ac.uk> Message-ID: *"the ability to glance at a chart and interpret it is likely to be a semiotic means not readily available to those without education to interpret them"* . . . and this is especially true with the models, which are often not intended to be "true" but rather persuasive, or "directionally true" -- here is where being highly educated and 'chart-literate' might hurt more than help (i.e., reading the charts accurately, but mistaking the modeling as real data; or 'reading the text but missing the context'). It's a tricky landscape On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 3:54 PM mike cole wrote: > You raise a point that links to Mary's description, Martin > > *As for making visible the virus and the illness, of course the charts > make visible aspects of infection. * > > I think that the ability to glance at a chart and interpret it is likely > to be a semiotic means not readily available to > those without education to interpret them. Or to rely on the source of > information from this they come -- A government > they have lost trust in. > > Professional vision, so to speak. > > > mike > > On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 12:41 PM Martin Packer wrote: > >> Thanks to Mary and David for providing ?local' accounts? >> >> To take a shot at Mary?s question, Do we need governments to set up the >> conditions for the actions of individuals? - it seems that David?s answer >> is, we don't when there is a 'flexible and cooperative mindset,? perhaps >> forged in previous shared difficulties. Perhaps that applies to S. Korea as >> well. >> >> I suppose it should not be surprising that the most individualistic >> nations, the UK and US, seem to be having the greatest difficulty in coming >> together to face the situation. But even there, between individual and >> national government are a set of institutions that I think could play an >> important role in guiding people?s actions. >> >> Some simple examples that come to mind. Here, banks are expanding online >> services and dropping charges for online transfers, thus removing a >> barrier, albeit small, to providing financial assistance. Stores are >> creating symbolic markers that make visible safer interpersonal distance ? >> simple things like tape on the floor. I don?t know what stance the various >> religious institutions are taking. These are small steps, but they help >> nudge individual actions in the right direction. >> >> As for making visible the virus and the illness, of course the charts >> make visible aspects of infection. Tests, when they are available, create >> markers of infection and, hopefully, immunity. I worry that the media?s >> focus on the extremely ill may not encourage people to make sensible >> choices. >> >> One of the problems with staying at home is that while avoiding direct >> contact is healthy, it also prevents first-hand experience of the illness >> for most people. >> >> Martin >> >> >> >> >> On Apr 26, 2020, at 3:40 AM, Mary van der Riet >> wrote: >> >> I am struck in all of these conversations of the similarities with the >> HIV pandemic . We face these issues daily in the Southern African region >> (the highest prevalence of HIV globally). >> We say 'it depends on us', and revert to information sharing, and >> dependence on cognitive shifts and adaptations (all of the old behaviour >> change theories Theory of Reasoned Action; Health Belief Models)- see the >> risk, know what the risk means, know how to prevent it, and make changes to >> your behaviour in order to protect yourself. >> All of this is relevant for the COVID 10 pandemic, and much of it is not >> working. We as educated adults see the risk, know the risk, know how to >> protect ourselves (to the degree that scientists have informed us, and to >> the degree that science knows about the transmission) and yet it is really >> hard to change behaviour, to 'believe' that this is real >> >> And what does it mean for action? It means people don't social distance, >> don't use masks, see themselves as infallible etc. >> >> The origin of actions/activity do/does not reside in cognition...we know >> that from Activity theory, CHAT, etc. >> >> In the HIV pandemic in SA, there are still people who believe that you >> are fine if you cant see the symptoms (loss of weight, skin conditions, >> diarrohea - a fallacy by the way). A taxi driver said he would rather have >> HIV than Covid 19 because he could 'see' that someone was or was not HIV >> positive, but he is scared of Covid 19 because he cant 'see' it. Same >> discourse, same consequences. >> Then there was a period in SA where HIV public health messaging was about >> showing coffins, and symbols of death to try to get people to take in the >> seriousness of it all. Do we find this now? are those more directly >> infected (someone in their family, seeing someone ill with Covid 19 - >> doctors, nurses)- more convinced about the nature of the problem). Perhaps >> not for some in the USA protesting this viral hoax. So, what changes >> behaviour? >> >> The question is the same - what is the motive that drives the health >> protection actions of individuals? The origin of behaviour is not >> individual cognition. >> >> Uganda was seen to have been so effective in reducing HIV incidence >> because it made HIV a notifiable disease. Is this draconian? Does it >> infringe on individual rights? [In SA we have not done that, we have a >> constitutional right to control and manage and keep private our HIV status; >> AND we have huge levels of stigma (extreme fear of going for an HIV test in >> a university context because people will 'see you there, and think you are >> HIV positive). At the same time, young women at universities are afraid of >> unplanned pregnancies because they are visible, (unlike HIV), and evidence >> of sexual activity. So, contradictions and tensions in practices around >> sexual activity in the context of 'risk' or vulnerability to HIV.] >> Governments who can instruct people how to behave (ie take the >> responsibility away from the individual) seem to have had more control over >> the spread of the virus (SA during lockdown). So a rule or a law which >> governs individual actions (and creating the context for an action, >> prescribing what might be 'afforded' in the context) might be more >> effective that the individual 'making a decision' >> If condom use amongst young people is not a 'norm' it is difficult for >> one person to engage with condom use. >> >> Do we need governments to set up the conditions for the actions of >> individuals? >> >> Mary >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> *Mary van der Riet (Phd), **Associate Professor* >> *Discipline of Psychology, **School of Applied Human Sciences, College >> of Humanities, University of KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa* >> *email: vanderriet@ukzn.ac.za >> **tel: +27 33 260 6163* >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> on behalf of Julian Williams >> *Sent:* Saturday, 25 April 2020 20:24 >> *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? >> >> Martin, David >> >> Yes a lot depends... on ?us?. >> >> Check out the report, where you can see how much was ?predicted? years >> ago, even the possible public outrage ensuing government failures ; but yes >> my decisive, main point was not to predict, but to ACT. >> >> David I agree the bioscience issues are important, but bear in mind that >> our sloppy public health systems globally ( eg with wild life markets) >> expose humanity to many new viruses ( they estimate 2-4 new viruses per >> year) - our relations and actions shape this threat. >> >> Then also not just immediately, but imaginatively, to play with models >> (and not just those reductive epidemiologists? ?predictions?) .. but to >> imagineer a world subject that can act in future to tackle essentially >> GLOBAL challenges. >> >> Best wishes >> >> Julian >> >> On 25 Apr 2020, at 18:10, Martin Packer wrote: >> >> That?s the problem with predicting - it all depends! :) >> >> Yes, coronavirus may become endemic, like flu or the common cold or >> something worse. >> >> Or a vaccine may be developed. >> >> Or if 4 in 5 are somehow naturally resistant, and if most of the 1 in 5 >> who become infected develop immunity as a result, the incidence of covid >> could drop dramatically. >> >> Or we could all drink disinfectant. >> >> Martin >> >> >> >> On Apr 25, 2020, at 11:49 AM, David H Kirshner wrote: >> >> It is possible that the virus is eradicated, like SARS was, but that?s >> increasingly unlikely. >> More likely is that ?2019-nCoV joins the four coronaviruses now >> circulating in people. ?I can imagine a scenario where this becomes a fifth >> endemic human coronavirus,? said Stephen Morse of Columbia University?s >> Mailman School of Public Health, an epidemiologist and expert on emerging >> infectious diseases.? >> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.statnews.com/2020/02/04/two-scenarios-if-new-coronavirus-isnt-contained/__;!!Mih3wA!Vpr-D-opy9G3oBErs0dshiW2BhUnYsVVOriXYZmsifUaKuIC535SmVW08UaP2kEUqjQLUA$ >> >> >> The fact that such a large proportion of people who contract the virus >> are asymptomatic make this one very hard to contain. Of course, the >> possibility of a vaccine would greatly reduce its human toll. >> >> David >> >> *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> *On Behalf Of *Martin Packer >> *Sent:* Saturday, April 25, 2020 11:14 AM >> *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? >> >> David, >> >> There is talk about the possible eradication of the virus in Australia >> and New Zealand, from what I have read. Eradication is difficult when no >> one has resistance, but not impossible. Other virus infections have been >> eradicated, as far as one can tell, such as smallpox. >> >> In Wuhan, where the infections started, which is a city of around 11 >> million people, less that 70,000 cases were reported. Even if that is >> vastly underreported by a factor of 10 it is less than 10%. And studies in >> California suggest that only 1 in 5 have been infected, of whom 60% have >> not experienced any symptoms. Only around 5% need hospitalization. >> >> Martin >> >> >> >> On Apr 25, 2020, at 10:46 AM, David H Kirshner wrote: >> >> Martin, >> The scenario you sketched out is what I?d thought would/could happen, but >> the epidemiologists don?t ever talk about eradicating the virus, they just >> talk about slowing the spread so as not to overwhelm health care >> facilities. Eventually, everyone who can get it will get it. So a >> generation of older and weaker people will be adversely affected, many >> dying. It?s only in the next generation when most people have gotten it >> young that it will fade into the background, like the common cold. >> David >> >> >> *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> *On Behalf Of *Martin Packer >> *Sent:* Saturday, April 25, 2020 7:42 AM >> *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? >> >> Julian, >> >> If no efforts are made to contain a virus it will move through a >> population in a single wave, infecting many people and then disappearing as >> no more potential hosts are available. >> >> If efforts to contain it ? lockdown ? are adequate there will be a single >> much smaller wave, followed again by elimination as hosts are not available. >> >> If containment is not effective ? if people don?t isolate sufficiently ? >> there may be a second wave when the containment is reduced. Or the first >> wave may not be controlled. >> >> As you say, each country is responding differently. Australia seems close >> to eliminating the virus after a single wave. The US and UK are somewhere >> between starting a second wave and still being in a poorly controlled first >> wave. Colombia seems to be still moving up its first wave. >> >> The behavior of a virus can be modeled, but only on the basis of >> assumptions about how people are going to behave. Since we cannot predict >> this behavior, we cannot even predict how the virus will or will not >> spread, let alone the political, economic and social consequences. >> >> To say this is not to be pessimistic; pessimism would be predicting a >> dire outcome. Rather, it highlights that the outcome lies in all our hands. >> >> Martin >> >> >> >> >> >> On Apr 25, 2020, at 1:43 AM, Julian Williams < >> julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk> wrote: >> >> Andy/Greg >> >> Each nation state appears to be ?playing? the pandemic in different ways >> (eg China, Italy, Australia, NZ, Sweden, UK, USA,? check out attached >> report which comes from https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://pandemic.internationalsos.com/2019-ncov__;!!Mih3wA!Vpr-D-opy9G3oBErs0dshiW2BhUnYsVVOriXYZmsifUaKuIC535SmVW08UaP2kHQ9cfy4g$ >> >> I get one of these reports every few days) while sometimes looking >> to other countries to see how their numbers are growing/falling (and mostly >> making a damn poor job of it). >> >> Before this all got going, the scientists already had a pretty good idea >> how a pandemic works, and even what needed to be done to prepare for it: >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/revealed-uk-ministers-were-warned-last-year-of-risks-of-coronavirus-pandemic__;!!Mih3wA!Vpr-D-opy9G3oBErs0dshiW2BhUnYsVVOriXYZmsifUaKuIC535SmVW08UaP2kF6yQk7eg$ >> >> And now we know a bit more than we did then. >> >> There is a prediction/warning there about a number of pandemic waves? >> >> In the second ?wave?, we ? the world subject-in-formation may have learnt >> more, maybe there will be fewer deaths? Maybe we will rescue WHO, maybe >> not (I won?t predict). But maybe the science community will be paying >> serious attention, and especially to its duty to the ?public good?. But >> there are some contradictory signs. In my own university we seem to be >> about to enter a new austerity, (implemented from the top by a failing >> leadership, led by a true academic, bio scientist no less!) >> >> What is clear is that the ?public? and its social movements are key to >> forcing each government to act, and that in almost all cases our leaders >> and rulers have followed along reluctantly ? even while the science and the >> pandemic plan was there. >> >> In the third and subsequent waves? I agree it?s not predictable: the >> outcomes will depend entirely on all of ?us?. >> >> And in the next ?big one?, the climate collapse? Maybe all this pandemic >> ?play? will have helped prepare us, we maybe will learn how to build the >> institutions, policies etc for the world?s ?public good? in time. I still >> have hope. >> >> I use Vygotsky-Leontiev?s idea of ?play? as the leading activity of the >> pre-schooler, as I find it complements the notion of world perezhivanie ? >> yes, we are experiencing trauma and that drives activity to overcome, etc, >> but also in this play we are acting, reflecting, and always ? above all - >> imagining and re-imagining (modelling etc) our world future. >> >> Julian >> >> >> >> *From: * on behalf of Andy Blunden < >> andyb@marxists.org> >> *Reply-To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" >> *Date: *Saturday, 25 April 2020 at 02:08 >> *To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" >> *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? >> >> Greg, the word is polysemic, as Mike said, but I agree with Michael that >> *perezhivaniya* are essentially collective experiences. As I say in the >> article, that COVID will be experienced differently in different countries, >> by different classes and social groups is an important part of this >> process. It does not detract it from its being a single experience. >> Huw, a "world subject" is emergent at this moment. It is implicit or >> "in-itself" but I look forward to the appearance of such a world subject, >> though who know how long and through what traumas we will pass before it is >> an actuality. Like WW2, the COVID pandemic part of its birth process. >> >> - https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/seminars/perezhivanie.htm__;!!Mih3wA!Vpr-D-opy9G3oBErs0dshiW2BhUnYsVVOriXYZmsifUaKuIC535SmVW08UaP2kEurW-xoQ$ , >> >> Notes, links, excerpts, 2009 >> - >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Blunden_article*response.pdf__;Kw!!Mih3wA!Vpr-D-opy9G3oBErs0dshiW2BhUnYsVVOriXYZmsifUaKuIC535SmVW08UaP2kGb1pz2cw$ >> , >> MCA article 2016 >> - >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Coronavirus-pandemic.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!Vpr-D-opy9G3oBErs0dshiW2BhUnYsVVOriXYZmsifUaKuIC535SmVW08UaP2kE7IeihKw$ >> >> >> Andy >> >> ------------------------------ >> *Andy Blunden* >> Hegel for Social Movements >> >> Home Page >> >> On 25/04/2020 4:01 am, Greg Thompson wrote: >> >> I'm wondering about Andy's suggestion that covid-19 is a (or maybe "is >> creating a"?) world perezhivanie. That seems a really rich suggestion but >> I'm not sure how many of us on the list really understand what he means by >> this. >> >> Andy tends to just tell me to go read more and so I'm wondering if >> someone else might be willing to take a stab at explaining what he might >> mean. >> >> Also, as a critical intervention, I am wondering whether covid-19 is the >> "same" for everyone. We have folks in the U.S. who think it is basically >> just a typical flu that has been turned into a political tool to attack the >> current president. Or does that not matter for perezhivanie? >> >> (and just to be clear, my question is not whether or not this is true or >> right or beautiful to think this way; my question is whether or not this is >> how people are actually experiencing the world since I assume that this is >> what perezhivanie is supposed to be "getting at". Or am I misunderstanding >> perezhivanie?) >> >> So is there really a shared perezhivanie here? >> (Is The Problem of Age the place to look for answers?) >> >> But if no one wants to take this up (perhaps too much ink has been spilt >> over perezhivanie?), that's fine too. >> >> Cheers, >> greg >> >> >> -- >> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >> Assistant Professor >> Department of Anthropology >> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >> Brigham Young University >> Provo, UT 84602 >> WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!Vpr-D-opy9G3oBErs0dshiW2BhUnYsVVOriXYZmsifUaKuIC535SmVW08UaP2kHHDnYc3w$ >> >> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!Vpr-D-opy9G3oBErs0dshiW2BhUnYsVVOriXYZmsifUaKuIC535SmVW08UaP2kGl_5syfA$ >> >> >> >> >> >> > > -- > > the creation of utopias ? and their exhaustive criticism ? is the proper > and distinctive method of sociology. H.G.Wells > > --------------------------------------------------- > For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other > members of LCHC, visit > lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the > research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200426/44c5eb4e/attachment.html From jamesma320@gmail.com Sun Apr 26 14:24:43 2020 From: jamesma320@gmail.com (James Ma) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2020 22:24:43 +0100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Social distancing = ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My point is that societal differences are themselves a signifying practice and that language is not only referential but differential. On Sat, 25 Apr 2020 at 13:20, Ulvi ??il wrote: > I can prefer to add such a meaning to "social distancing" as in the photo > for the working-class adding also to it "political" and "to capitalist > class". > "Social and political distancing to capitalist class". > In this sense, yes, we can admit rather than reject "social distancing = > communism". > > > > > On Sat, 25 Apr 2020 at 11:31, James Ma wrote: > >> Social distancing is a norm in the current pandemic crisis. More to the >> point, I think it is already a semiosis produced and reproduced as a >> signifying practice in which culture is inscribed as something local or >> individual. >> James >> >> >> *__________________________________________________* >> >> *James Ma Independent Scholar https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://oxford.academia.edu/JamesMa__;!!Mih3wA!RX6Nde7bjlgtxqQV4pXd9JAm5hr8d8er-Auk-THSIN5mdFFQyjtJotbKgDR60dLqRASvPw$ >> * >> >> >> On Fri, 24 Apr 2020 at 22:03, Ulvi ??il wrote: >> >>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200426/f327af1f/attachment-0001.html From julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk Sun Apr 26 14:58:08 2020 From: julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk (Julian Williams) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2020 21:58:08 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? In-Reply-To: References: <7f661750-350f-9e76-d6b3-1598132af583@marxists.org> <1056380D-069C-40AE-934F-EA2A1212ACDB@manchester.ac.uk> <0E64BF76-A158-453E-B233-64D5E00625FA@cantab.net> <8DD6C766-811B-4B08-8B10-6ECA676FAA50@cantab.net> <04B33A84-A10E-4E3E-B7D4-358E9DD62EF6@manchester.ac.uk> , Message-ID: <018B6DB3-C8AD-4B69-A8F9-862E28EA787A@manchester.ac.uk> Anthony This comment fits remarkably well with some work I have been doing and am pursuing right now on the subject of modelling, and the teaching of modelling (a long standing interest of mine, particularly in mathematics). You could say "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing"- although in this case I suspect what your president is teaching us all (perhaps the deliberate action of some sort of savant) is that a little knowledge is dangerous, but ignorance of ones little knowledge is lethal. Having irritated you, now then: yes, our politicians and public generally perhaps are inclined to reify models, (connects with what Anna stars has called numberese) and we need to understand what models can and can't do: in our teaching of modelling we have always emphasised the role of assumptions in every model... And the need for every "answer" to be interpreted in light of those assumptions, and the need to validate these in light of explicit assumptions. We were quite successful in implementing modelling in curriculums in many schools and universities for quite a while (it's a long story) but ultimately it was an innovation too far. But maybe all this talk of modelling will help us to revivify this... Let's see. But I referred to the 'predictions' (actually models, of course) of pandemic that have been 'known' for quite a while, the need for PPE, testing, isolation, lockdowns, and political fallout were all there, in case and on the assumption "we" did not prepare. We now have some validations and as time speeds up we are getting new models and validations. This is how 'facts' accumulate, ... But maybe too slow, and one of the accelerators could be the meta cognition about "modelling" ... If it was understood that "flattening the curve" was a fundamental misunderstanding about models it could help us. And if we all realised that epidemiologists are great empirical modellers but generally lacking explanatory theory and so hopelessly compromised in practice it might help. They talk of "flattening the curve" while public health medical scientists talk of "saving people's lives". Listen to the discourse and you will get an idea who the politicians are engaging with. The public, and even the science community needs a grasp of the various epistemological communities and disciplines, so we know what we know, what we don't know and what the various sciences have to offer in an interdisciplinary endeavour like this. As Anne Edwards has pointed out in regard to interdisciplinary team working, in Etienne Wenger's terms, we need awareness of the knowledge landscape, alongside our own silo ... In my terms, we have to get our heads out of our own disciplinary backsides and see the whole... (Meta disciplinary). Practical point: I am discussing resurrecting again a course in modelling ... If anyone has similar thoughts get in touch. Ialso will post if I get anywhere on this. Julian On 26 Apr 2020, at 21:32, Anthony Barra > wrote: "the ability to glance at a chart and interpret it is likely to be a semiotic means not readily available to those without education to interpret them" . . . and this is especially true with the models, which are often not intended to be "true" but rather persuasive, or "directionally true" -- here is where being highly educated and 'chart-literate' might hurt more than help (i.e., reading the charts accurately, but mistaking the modeling as real data; or 'reading the text but missing the context'). It's a tricky landscape On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 3:54 PM mike cole > wrote: You raise a point that links to Mary's description, Martin As for making visible the virus and the illness, of course the charts make visible aspects of infection. I think that the ability to glance at a chart and interpret it is likely to be a semiotic means not readily available to those without education to interpret them. Or to rely on the source of information from this they come -- A government they have lost trust in. Professional vision, so to speak. mike On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 12:41 PM Martin Packer > wrote: Thanks to Mary and David for providing ?local' accounts? To take a shot at Mary?s question, Do we need governments to set up the conditions for the actions of individuals? - it seems that David?s answer is, we don't when there is a 'flexible and cooperative mindset,? perhaps forged in previous shared difficulties. Perhaps that applies to S. Korea as well. I suppose it should not be surprising that the most individualistic nations, the UK and US, seem to be having the greatest difficulty in coming together to face the situation. But even there, between individual and national government are a set of institutions that I think could play an important role in guiding people?s actions. Some simple examples that come to mind. Here, banks are expanding online services and dropping charges for online transfers, thus removing a barrier, albeit small, to providing financial assistance. Stores are creating symbolic markers that make visible safer interpersonal distance ? simple things like tape on the floor. I don?t know what stance the various religious institutions are taking. These are small steps, but they help nudge individual actions in the right direction. As for making visible the virus and the illness, of course the charts make visible aspects of infection. Tests, when they are available, create markers of infection and, hopefully, immunity. I worry that the media?s focus on the extremely ill may not encourage people to make sensible choices. One of the problems with staying at home is that while avoiding direct contact is healthy, it also prevents first-hand experience of the illness for most people. Martin On Apr 26, 2020, at 3:40 AM, Mary van der Riet > wrote: I am struck in all of these conversations of the similarities with the HIV pandemic . We face these issues daily in the Southern African region (the highest prevalence of HIV globally). We say 'it depends on us', and revert to information sharing, and dependence on cognitive shifts and adaptations (all of the old behaviour change theories Theory of Reasoned Action; Health Belief Models)- see the risk, know what the risk means, know how to prevent it, and make changes to your behaviour in order to protect yourself. All of this is relevant for the COVID 10 pandemic, and much of it is not working. We as educated adults see the risk, know the risk, know how to protect ourselves (to the degree that scientists have informed us, and to the degree that science knows about the transmission) and yet it is really hard to change behaviour, to 'believe' that this is real And what does it mean for action? It means people don't social distance, don't use masks, see themselves as infallible etc. The origin of actions/activity do/does not reside in cognition...we know that from Activity theory, CHAT, etc. In the HIV pandemic in SA, there are still people who believe that you are fine if you cant see the symptoms (loss of weight, skin conditions, diarrohea - a fallacy by the way). A taxi driver said he would rather have HIV than Covid 19 because he could 'see' that someone was or was not HIV positive, but he is scared of Covid 19 because he cant 'see' it. Same discourse, same consequences. Then there was a period in SA where HIV public health messaging was about showing coffins, and symbols of death to try to get people to take in the seriousness of it all. Do we find this now? are those more directly infected (someone in their family, seeing someone ill with Covid 19 - doctors, nurses)- more convinced about the nature of the problem). Perhaps not for some in the USA protesting this viral hoax. So, what changes behaviour? The question is the same - what is the motive that drives the health protection actions of individuals? The origin of behaviour is not individual cognition. Uganda was seen to have been so effective in reducing HIV incidence because it made HIV a notifiable disease. Is this draconian? Does it infringe on individual rights? [In SA we have not done that, we have a constitutional right to control and manage and keep private our HIV status; AND we have huge levels of stigma (extreme fear of going for an HIV test in a university context because people will 'see you there, and think you are HIV positive). At the same time, young women at universities are afraid of unplanned pregnancies because they are visible, (unlike HIV), and evidence of sexual activity. So, contradictions and tensions in practices around sexual activity in the context of 'risk' or vulnerability to HIV.] Governments who can instruct people how to behave (ie take the responsibility away from the individual) seem to have had more control over the spread of the virus (SA during lockdown). So a rule or a law which governs individual actions (and creating the context for an action, prescribing what might be 'afforded' in the context) might be more effective that the individual 'making a decision' If condom use amongst young people is not a 'norm' it is difficult for one person to engage with condom use. Do we need governments to set up the conditions for the actions of individuals? Mary Mary van der Riet (Phd), Associate Professor Discipline of Psychology, School of Applied Human Sciences, College of Humanities, University of KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa email: vanderriet@ukzn.ac.za tel: +27 33 260 6163 ________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Julian Williams > Sent: Saturday, 25 April 2020 20:24 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? Martin, David Yes a lot depends... on ?us?. Check out the report, where you can see how much was ?predicted? years ago, even the possible public outrage ensuing government failures ; but yes my decisive, main point was not to predict, but to ACT. David I agree the bioscience issues are important, but bear in mind that our sloppy public health systems globally ( eg with wild life markets) expose humanity to many new viruses ( they estimate 2-4 new viruses per year) - our relations and actions shape this threat. Then also not just immediately, but imaginatively, to play with models (and not just those reductive epidemiologists? ?predictions?) .. but to imagineer a world subject that can act in future to tackle essentially GLOBAL challenges. Best wishes Julian On 25 Apr 2020, at 18:10, Martin Packer > wrote: That?s the problem with predicting - it all depends! :) Yes, coronavirus may become endemic, like flu or the common cold or something worse. Or a vaccine may be developed. Or if 4 in 5 are somehow naturally resistant, and if most of the 1 in 5 who become infected develop immunity as a result, the incidence of covid could drop dramatically. Or we could all drink disinfectant. Martin On Apr 25, 2020, at 11:49 AM, David H Kirshner > wrote: It is possible that the virus is eradicated, like SARS was, but that?s increasingly unlikely. More likely is that ?2019-nCoV joins the four coronaviruses now circulating in people. ?I can imagine a scenario where this becomes a fifth endemic human coronavirus,? said Stephen Morse of Columbia University?s Mailman School of Public Health, an epidemiologist and expert on emerging infectious diseases.? https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.statnews.com/2020/02/04/two-scenarios-if-new-coronavirus-isnt-contained/__;!!Mih3wA!XPODzMs8Mp8nbSjHjETgI_b7NhBtLq7mlsbi344WDzkGapsxjSOpnv1MfG5yNeKBV6j1pQ$ The fact that such a large proportion of people who contract the virus are asymptomatic make this one very hard to contain. Of course, the possibility of a vaccine would greatly reduce its human toll. David From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > On Behalf Of Martin Packer Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 11:14 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? David, There is talk about the possible eradication of the virus in Australia and New Zealand, from what I have read. Eradication is difficult when no one has resistance, but not impossible. Other virus infections have been eradicated, as far as one can tell, such as smallpox. In Wuhan, where the infections started, which is a city of around 11 million people, less that 70,000 cases were reported. Even if that is vastly underreported by a factor of 10 it is less than 10%. And studies in California suggest that only 1 in 5 have been infected, of whom 60% have not experienced any symptoms. Only around 5% need hospitalization. Martin On Apr 25, 2020, at 10:46 AM, David H Kirshner > wrote: Martin, The scenario you sketched out is what I?d thought would/could happen, but the epidemiologists don?t ever talk about eradicating the virus, they just talk about slowing the spread so as not to overwhelm health care facilities. Eventually, everyone who can get it will get it. So a generation of older and weaker people will be adversely affected, many dying. It?s only in the next generation when most people have gotten it young that it will fade into the background, like the common cold. David From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > On Behalf Of Martin Packer Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 7:42 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? Julian, If no efforts are made to contain a virus it will move through a population in a single wave, infecting many people and then disappearing as no more potential hosts are available. If efforts to contain it ? lockdown ? are adequate there will be a single much smaller wave, followed again by elimination as hosts are not available. If containment is not effective ? if people don?t isolate sufficiently ? there may be a second wave when the containment is reduced. Or the first wave may not be controlled. As you say, each country is responding differently. Australia seems close to eliminating the virus after a single wave. The US and UK are somewhere between starting a second wave and still being in a poorly controlled first wave. Colombia seems to be still moving up its first wave. The behavior of a virus can be modeled, but only on the basis of assumptions about how people are going to behave. Since we cannot predict this behavior, we cannot even predict how the virus will or will not spread, let alone the political, economic and social consequences. To say this is not to be pessimistic; pessimism would be predicting a dire outcome. Rather, it highlights that the outcome lies in all our hands. Martin On Apr 25, 2020, at 1:43 AM, Julian Williams > wrote: Andy/Greg Each nation state appears to be ?playing? the pandemic in different ways (eg China, Italy, Australia, NZ, Sweden, UK, USA,? check out attached report which comes from https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://pandemic.internationalsos.com/2019-ncov__;!!Mih3wA!XPODzMs8Mp8nbSjHjETgI_b7NhBtLq7mlsbi344WDzkGapsxjSOpnv1MfG5yNeIuA3ByFA$ I get one of these reports every few days) while sometimes looking to other countries to see how their numbers are growing/falling (and mostly making a damn poor job of it). Before this all got going, the scientists already had a pretty good idea how a pandemic works, and even what needed to be done to prepare for it: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/revealed-uk-ministers-were-warned-last-year-of-risks-of-coronavirus-pandemic__;!!Mih3wA!XPODzMs8Mp8nbSjHjETgI_b7NhBtLq7mlsbi344WDzkGapsxjSOpnv1MfG5yNeLCwGIp7w$ And now we know a bit more than we did then. There is a prediction/warning there about a number of pandemic waves? In the second ?wave?, we ? the world subject-in-formation may have learnt more, maybe there will be fewer deaths? Maybe we will rescue WHO, maybe not (I won?t predict). But maybe the science community will be paying serious attention, and especially to its duty to the ?public good?. But there are some contradictory signs. In my own university we seem to be about to enter a new austerity, (implemented from the top by a failing leadership, led by a true academic, bio scientist no less!) What is clear is that the ?public? and its social movements are key to forcing each government to act, and that in almost all cases our leaders and rulers have followed along reluctantly ? even while the science and the pandemic plan was there. In the third and subsequent waves? I agree it?s not predictable: the outcomes will depend entirely on all of ?us?. And in the next ?big one?, the climate collapse? Maybe all this pandemic ?play? will have helped prepare us, we maybe will learn how to build the institutions, policies etc for the world?s ?public good? in time. I still have hope. I use Vygotsky-Leontiev?s idea of ?play? as the leading activity of the pre-schooler, as I find it complements the notion of world perezhivanie ? yes, we are experiencing trauma and that drives activity to overcome, etc, but also in this play we are acting, reflecting, and always ? above all - imagining and re-imagining (modelling etc) our world future. Julian From: > on behalf of Andy Blunden > Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Date: Saturday, 25 April 2020 at 02:08 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? Greg, the word is polysemic, as Mike said, but I agree with Michael that perezhivaniya are essentially collective experiences. As I say in the article, that COVID will be experienced differently in different countries, by different classes and social groups is an important part of this process. It does not detract it from its being a single experience. Huw, a "world subject" is emergent at this moment. It is implicit or "in-itself" but I look forward to the appearance of such a world subject, though who know how long and through what traumas we will pass before it is an actuality. Like WW2, the COVID pandemic part of its birth process. * https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/seminars/perezhivanie.htm__;!!Mih3wA!XPODzMs8Mp8nbSjHjETgI_b7NhBtLq7mlsbi344WDzkGapsxjSOpnv1MfG5yNeIF8AX8jQ$ , Notes, links, excerpts, 2009 * https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Blunden_article*response.pdf__;Kw!!Mih3wA!XPODzMs8Mp8nbSjHjETgI_b7NhBtLq7mlsbi344WDzkGapsxjSOpnv1MfG5yNeJub63_UA$ , MCA article 2016 * https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Coronavirus-pandemic.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!XPODzMs8Mp8nbSjHjETgI_b7NhBtLq7mlsbi344WDzkGapsxjSOpnv1MfG5yNeIV2-5HCA$ Andy ________________________________ Andy Blunden Hegel for Social Movements Home Page On 25/04/2020 4:01 am, Greg Thompson wrote: I'm wondering about Andy's suggestion that covid-19 is a (or maybe "is creating a"?) world perezhivanie. That seems a really rich suggestion but I'm not sure how many of us on the list really understand what he means by this. Andy tends to just tell me to go read more and so I'm wondering if someone else might be willing to take a stab at explaining what he might mean. Also, as a critical intervention, I am wondering whether covid-19 is the "same" for everyone. We have folks in the U.S. who think it is basically just a typical flu that has been turned into a political tool to attack the current president. Or does that not matter for perezhivanie? (and just to be clear, my question is not whether or not this is true or right or beautiful to think this way; my question is whether or not this is how people are actually experiencing the world since I assume that this is what perezhivanie is supposed to be "getting at". Or am I misunderstanding perezhivanie?) So is there really a shared perezhivanie here? (Is The Problem of Age the place to look for answers?) But if no one wants to take this up (perhaps too much ink has been spilt over perezhivanie?), that's fine too. Cheers, greg -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!XPODzMs8Mp8nbSjHjETgI_b7NhBtLq7mlsbi344WDzkGapsxjSOpnv1MfG5yNeIRc6bfFg$ https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!XPODzMs8Mp8nbSjHjETgI_b7NhBtLq7mlsbi344WDzkGapsxjSOpnv1MfG5yNeIUJ5hUNA$ -- the creation of utopias ? and their exhaustive criticism ? is the proper and distinctive method of sociology. H.G.Wells --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200426/38110697/attachment.html From hshonerd@gmail.com Sun Apr 26 15:15:18 2020 From: hshonerd@gmail.com (HENRY SHONERD) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2020 16:15:18 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? In-Reply-To: References: <7f661750-350f-9e76-d6b3-1598132af583@marxists.org> <1056380D-069C-40AE-934F-EA2A1212ACDB@manchester.ac.uk> <0E64BF76-A158-453E-B233-64D5E00625FA@cantab.net> <8DD6C766-811B-4B08-8B10-6ECA676FAA50@cantab.net> Message-ID: <4A5DCC64-034F-499D-8260-408839068D68@gmail.com> Hi Derek, I have this idea that reactivating our local neighborhood association at this time would be a good way to change behavior at the local level that might have global resonance. I?ve got a flyer I just wrote that I plan to give to people around the neighborhood. Low tech. Something else struck me: New Zealand is a small island like Cuba. Some would say the Cuban revolution is history, but Cuban health care workers are out in the world again today, just like the song I will reference again on this thread: ?La Era Est? Pariendo un Coraz?n?. Here are the words in the same song that come to mind when I think of those Cuban health care workers rushing to the aid of a stricken world: "Y hay que acudir corriendo?. In the context of this wonderful thread, this horrible pandemic, it is so difficult to do justice to the power of these words in English, but they go something like, ?We have to go running to the aid (of the world)?. I have been loving this thread. Ann-Neely?s reference to the local/global distinction is generative. "Think globally.. act locally.? We can?t predict how ?things? will turn out, but the basic trust thing, I trust, will come out of many, many locally grounded gestures of love. But of course we need government! Henry > On Apr 25, 2020, at 11:21 PM, Derek Worley Patton wrote: > > Hi Martin, I rarely comment, but as to New Zealand, our prime minister and community health leader who is a community health expert and pointedly takes into consider the physical, mental, community and economic health (and other science advisors) all being of one mind (a Unity of thought, understanding and action) blessings to be thankful for, have both explained we are trying to ?eliminate? the virus, which they explain is not the same as ?eradicate?. The difference being we eliminate the transmission by quick identifying, tracking contacts, testing them, and treating rapidly. We can only maintain that by guarding the borders by putting everyone coming into the country into 2 weeks isolation in specially monitored hotels and motels. The virus is not eradicated in the sense that small pox is (not taking into account weapons or government labs keeping sample just in case to defend ourselves (we hope of course). > > Small point. But I think New Zealand is succeeding because of being somewhat of one mind, and one united response trained by other events. Here in Christchurch we had some big killer Quakes, then 20,000 after shocks over 3 to 5 years. We have learned that little can be trusted including the earth, insurance companies, government beauracracies etc. What we do know we trust is that our neighbours (most of them) will be generous, kind and trustworthy in an emergency. Note our response to the Mosque massacre, as a city and as a nation. > > New Zealand, from my perspective as an American Quaker militant pacifist 1960s radical and having lived in Micronesia, Taiwan, China, Malaysia, Australia and visiting and work in Indonesia, Thailand and Kenya, is that NZ?s population has taken on a lot of Maori and Pacific Islander culture. They also think they are too far from the original European homes (UK particularly) to depend on that, and therefore will try to solve things themselves as a first reaction. Collectively, they think and act like a big spread out village and are fiercely defensive of their fair play. > This is of course very hopefully the kind of national flexible and cooperative mindset that leads to cooperative culture change in the most useful direction. Kind regards, derek > > Dr Derek W Patton ??? M.Ed(Child & Family Psychology), PGDip, PhD > Child & Family Psychologist, registered and practicing New Zealand > Melbourne Graduate School of Education (PhD and Lecturer - 2009-2015) > Honorary Fellow, research (2015 - 2020) > > > > From: Martin Packer > Sent: Sunday, 26 April 2020 4:16 AM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? > > David, > > There is talk about the possible eradication of the virus in Australia and New Zealand, from what I have read. Eradication is difficult when no one has resistance, but not impossible. Other virus infections have been eradicated, as far as one can tell, such as smallpox. > > In Wuhan, where the infections started, which is a city of around 11 million people, less that 70,000 cases were reported. Even if that is vastly underreported by a factor of 10 it is less than 10%. And studies in California suggest that only 1 in 5 have been infected, of whom 60% have not experienced any symptoms. Only around 5% need hospitalization. > > Martin > > > > On Apr 25, 2020, at 10:46 AM, David H Kirshner > wrote: > > Martin, > The scenario you sketched out is what I?d thought would/could happen, but the epidemiologists don?t ever talk about eradicating the virus, they just talk about slowing the spread so as not to overwhelm health care facilities. Eventually, everyone who can get it will get it. So a generation of older and weaker people will be adversely affected, many dying. It?s only in the next generation when most people have gotten it young that it will fade into the background, like the common cold. > David > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > On Behalf Of Martin Packer > Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 7:42 AM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? > > Julian, > > If no efforts are made to contain a virus it will move through a population in a single wave, infecting many people and then disappearing as no more potential hosts are available. > > If efforts to contain it ? lockdown ? are adequate there will be a single much smaller wave, followed again by elimination as hosts are not available. > > If containment is not effective ? if people don?t isolate sufficiently ? there may be a second wave when the containment is reduced. Or the first wave may not be controlled. > > As you say, each country is responding differently. Australia seems close to eliminating the virus after a single wave. The US and UK are somewhere between starting a second wave and still being in a poorly controlled first wave. Colombia seems to be still moving up its first wave. > > The behavior of a virus can be modeled, but only on the basis of assumptions about how people are going to behave. Since we cannot predict this behavior, we cannot even predict how the virus will or will not spread, let alone the political, economic and social consequences. > > To say this is not to be pessimistic; pessimism would be predicting a dire outcome. Rather, it highlights that the outcome lies in all our hands. > > Martin > > > > > > On Apr 25, 2020, at 1:43 AM, Julian Williams > wrote: > > Andy/Greg > > Each nation state appears to be ?playing? the pandemic in different ways (eg China, Italy, Australia, NZ, Sweden, UK, USA,? check out attached report which comes from https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://pandemic.internationalsos.com/2019-ncov__;!!Mih3wA!V2rqjjrkY0WQqxEqA0lBuqxAOHPxvsePoQNISNPOAWgmOxH9iNz26hxHXLMDTnEisipHWg$ I get one of these reports every few days) while sometimes looking to other countries to see how their numbers are growing/falling (and mostly making a damn poor job of it). > > Before this all got going, the scientists already had a pretty good idea how a pandemic works, and even what needed to be done to prepare for it: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/revealed-uk-ministers-were-warned-last-year-of-risks-of-coronavirus-pandemic__;!!Mih3wA!V2rqjjrkY0WQqxEqA0lBuqxAOHPxvsePoQNISNPOAWgmOxH9iNz26hxHXLMDTnHLD3wuDQ$ > And now we know a bit more than we did then. > > There is a prediction/warning there about a number of pandemic waves? > > In the second ?wave?, we ? the world subject-in-formation may have learnt more, maybe there will be fewer deaths? Maybe we will rescue WHO, maybe not (I won?t predict). But maybe the science community will be paying serious attention, and especially to its duty to the ?public good?. But there are some contradictory signs. In my own university we seem to be about to enter a new austerity, (implemented from the top by a failing leadership, led by a true academic, bio scientist no less!) > > What is clear is that the ?public? and its social movements are key to forcing each government to act, and that in almost all cases our leaders and rulers have followed along reluctantly ? even while the science and the pandemic plan was there. > > In the third and subsequent waves? I agree it?s not predictable: the outcomes will depend entirely on all of ?us?. > > And in the next ?big one?, the climate collapse? Maybe all this pandemic ?play? will have helped prepare us, we maybe will learn how to build the institutions, policies etc for the world?s ?public good? in time. I still have hope. > > I use Vygotsky-Leontiev?s idea of ?play? as the leading activity of the pre-schooler, as I find it complements the notion of world perezhivanie ? yes, we are experiencing trauma and that drives activity to overcome, etc, but also in this play we are acting, reflecting, and always ? above all - imagining and re-imagining (modelling etc) our world future. > > Julian > > > > From: > on behalf of Andy Blunden > > Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > > Date: Saturday, 25 April 2020 at 02:08 > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? > > Greg, the word is polysemic, as Mike said, but I agree with Michael that perezhivaniya are essentially collective experiences. As I say in the article, that COVID will be experienced differently in different countries, by different classes and social groups is an important part of this process. It does not detract it from its being a single experience. > Huw, a "world subject" is emergent at this moment. It is implicit or "in-itself" but I look forward to the appearance of such a world subject, though who know how long and through what traumas we will pass before it is an actuality. Like WW2, the COVID pandemic part of its birth process. > ? https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/seminars/perezhivanie.htm__;!!Mih3wA!V2rqjjrkY0WQqxEqA0lBuqxAOHPxvsePoQNISNPOAWgmOxH9iNz26hxHXLMDTnEuZo8tIA$ , Notes, links, excerpts, 2009 > ? https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Blunden_article*response.pdf__;Kw!!Mih3wA!V2rqjjrkY0WQqxEqA0lBuqxAOHPxvsePoQNISNPOAWgmOxH9iNz26hxHXLMDTnHA9ISpIQ$ , MCA article 2016 > ? https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Coronavirus-pandemic.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!V2rqjjrkY0WQqxEqA0lBuqxAOHPxvsePoQNISNPOAWgmOxH9iNz26hxHXLMDTnHElESwdg$ > Andy > > <913A4AC782474EFCB4ADC9E69E7E55C0.png> > Andy Blunden > Hegel for Social Movements > Home Page > On 25/04/2020 4:01 am, Greg Thompson wrote: > I'm wondering about Andy's suggestion that covid-19 is a (or maybe "is creating a"?) world perezhivanie. That seems a really rich suggestion but I'm not sure how many of us on the list really understand what he means by this. > > Andy tends to just tell me to go read more and so I'm wondering if someone else might be willing to take a stab at explaining what he might mean. > > Also, as a critical intervention, I am wondering whether covid-19 is the "same" for everyone. We have folks in the U.S. who think it is basically just a typical flu that has been turned into a political tool to attack the current president. Or does that not matter for perezhivanie? > > (and just to be clear, my question is not whether or not this is true or right or beautiful to think this way; my question is whether or not this is how people are actually experiencing the world since I assume that this is what perezhivanie is supposed to be "getting at". Or am I misunderstanding perezhivanie?) > > So is there really a shared perezhivanie here? > (Is The Problem of Age the place to look for answers?) > > But if no one wants to take this up (perhaps too much ink has been spilt over perezhivanie?), that's fine too. > > Cheers, > greg > > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!V2rqjjrkY0WQqxEqA0lBuqxAOHPxvsePoQNISNPOAWgmOxH9iNz26hxHXLMDTnErtPoUug$ > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!V2rqjjrkY0WQqxEqA0lBuqxAOHPxvsePoQNISNPOAWgmOxH9iNz26hxHXLMDTnF93H0z7w$ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200426/f0b689ee/attachment.html From dkellogg60@gmail.com Sun Apr 26 15:53:16 2020 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 07:53:16 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? In-Reply-To: References: <7f661750-350f-9e76-d6b3-1598132af583@marxists.org> <1056380D-069C-40AE-934F-EA2A1212ACDB@manchester.ac.uk> <0E64BF76-A158-453E-B233-64D5E00625FA@cantab.net> <8DD6C766-811B-4B08-8B10-6ECA676FAA50@cantab.net> <04B33A84-A10E-4E3E-B7D4-358E9DD62EF6@manchester.ac.uk> Message-ID: Down the street from me stands a large mega-church called Dongwon, which was the scene of a major outbreak around February 29, when the spread of Covid 19 finally peaked here in Korea. There is also a Starbucks which was frequented by one of the Dongwon positives and had to be shut down for 72 hours for cleaning. Neither one is doing much business. There are signs that tell worshippers how to get virtual services. But more importantly, there are big posters saying "Shincheonji OUT" ("out" is written in English) and explaining that members of the secretive sect are not allowed dual membership. (Shincheonji, a cult based in Daegu, was largely responsibe for the 29 February spike, because the notorous "Patient 31" was a Shincheonji member who refused to cooperate with health authorities.) Shincheonji made a practice of infiltrating the mega-churches in order to recruit young people, who then became (ideologically but also virologically) super-spreaders. The church is not exactly shuttered, but it is largely shunned. This is how contact tracing works in South Korea. It's not the Bluetooth app that Australia is using (only a million people have downloaded the Autralian app, which doesn't seem sufficient to me). Here in South Korea, people who are positive are simply interviewed about their movements for five to seven days before their positive test, and then these are published on the local government website and everyone is sent a local government message alerting them to the presence of the virus. When we take daily walks, we first consult the local government website and avoid hotspots. In the early days of the pandemic, there were sporadic complaints about contact tracing--some extra-marital affairs were inadvertantly exposed that way. But in general the resentment against the non-compliance of Shincheonji was fierce enough to overcome the objections. I am not sure I would call this trust with privacy: it's more distrust of secretiveness. The government did do its part to earn trust, though. Messages about contract tracing are now anonymized (but of course it's pretty easy to see through this even in a big city like Seoul, because contacts are referred to by their street addresses, and pretty much everybody on a street knows who lives where). The ruling party (called the "Living-With-Each-Other-Democrats") won the parliamentary elections with the largest majority since a democratic constitution was inaugurated in 1987. It didn't help that the main neo-militarist opposition (the "United Future Party") had some pretty obvious ideological and financial connections to Shincheonji (the name of the neo-militarist party sounded suspiciously like "Shincheonji" until they changed it). David Kellogg Sangmyung University New Article: Ruqaiya Hasan, in memoriam: A manual and a manifesto. Outlines, Spring 2020 https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238/167607__;!!Mih3wA!ThfdTCeU2ryRbPka7RHFgNWVUGk7HbJjI0jipXGJzbBywWZQ3xCu_7nGxlMeAxU7p_21TQ$ New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: *L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works* *Volume One: Foundations of Pedology*" https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!ThfdTCeU2ryRbPka7RHFgNWVUGk7HbJjI0jipXGJzbBywWZQ3xCu_7nGxlMeAxVfh5lNNQ$ On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 4:41 AM Martin Packer wrote: > Thanks to Mary and David for providing ?local' accounts? > > To take a shot at Mary?s question, Do we need governments to set up the > conditions for the actions of individuals? - it seems that David?s answer > is, we don't when there is a 'flexible and cooperative mindset,? perhaps > forged in previous shared difficulties. Perhaps that applies to S. Korea as > well. > > I suppose it should not be surprising that the most individualistic > nations, the UK and US, seem to be having the greatest difficulty in coming > together to face the situation. But even there, between individual and > national government are a set of institutions that I think could play an > important role in guiding people?s actions. > > Some simple examples that come to mind. Here, banks are expanding online > services and dropping charges for online transfers, thus removing a > barrier, albeit small, to providing financial assistance. Stores are > creating symbolic markers that make visible safer interpersonal distance ? > simple things like tape on the floor. I don?t know what stance the various > religious institutions are taking. These are small steps, but they help > nudge individual actions in the right direction. > > As for making visible the virus and the illness, of course the charts make > visible aspects of infection. Tests, when they are available, create > markers of infection and, hopefully, immunity. I worry that the media?s > focus on the extremely ill may not encourage people to make sensible > choices. > > One of the problems with staying at home is that while avoiding direct > contact is healthy, it also prevents first-hand experience of the illness > for most people. > > Martin > > > > > On Apr 26, 2020, at 3:40 AM, Mary van der Riet > wrote: > > I am struck in all of these conversations of the similarities with the HIV > pandemic . We face these issues daily in the Southern African region (the > highest prevalence of HIV globally). > We say 'it depends on us', and revert to information sharing, and > dependence on cognitive shifts and adaptations (all of the old behaviour > change theories Theory of Reasoned Action; Health Belief Models)- see the > risk, know what the risk means, know how to prevent it, and make changes to > your behaviour in order to protect yourself. > All of this is relevant for the COVID 10 pandemic, and much of it is not > working. We as educated adults see the risk, know the risk, know how to > protect ourselves (to the degree that scientists have informed us, and to > the degree that science knows about the transmission) and yet it is really > hard to change behaviour, to 'believe' that this is real > > And what does it mean for action? It means people don't social distance, > don't use masks, see themselves as infallible etc. > > The origin of actions/activity do/does not reside in cognition...we know > that from Activity theory, CHAT, etc. > > In the HIV pandemic in SA, there are still people who believe that you are > fine if you cant see the symptoms (loss of weight, skin conditions, > diarrohea - a fallacy by the way). A taxi driver said he would rather have > HIV than Covid 19 because he could 'see' that someone was or was not HIV > positive, but he is scared of Covid 19 because he cant 'see' it. Same > discourse, same consequences. > Then there was a period in SA where HIV public health messaging was about > showing coffins, and symbols of death to try to get people to take in the > seriousness of it all. Do we find this now? are those more directly > infected (someone in their family, seeing someone ill with Covid 19 - > doctors, nurses)- more convinced about the nature of the problem). Perhaps > not for some in the USA protesting this viral hoax. So, what changes > behaviour? > > The question is the same - what is the motive that drives the health > protection actions of individuals? The origin of behaviour is not > individual cognition. > > Uganda was seen to have been so effective in reducing HIV incidence > because it made HIV a notifiable disease. Is this draconian? Does it > infringe on individual rights? [In SA we have not done that, we have a > constitutional right to control and manage and keep private our HIV status; > AND we have huge levels of stigma (extreme fear of going for an HIV test in > a university context because people will 'see you there, and think you are > HIV positive). At the same time, young women at universities are afraid of > unplanned pregnancies because they are visible, (unlike HIV), and evidence > of sexual activity. So, contradictions and tensions in practices around > sexual activity in the context of 'risk' or vulnerability to HIV.] > Governments who can instruct people how to behave (ie take the > responsibility away from the individual) seem to have had more control over > the spread of the virus (SA during lockdown). So a rule or a law which > governs individual actions (and creating the context for an action, > prescribing what might be 'afforded' in the context) might be more > effective that the individual 'making a decision' > If condom use amongst young people is not a 'norm' it is difficult for one > person to engage with condom use. > > Do we need governments to set up the conditions for the actions of > individuals? > > Mary > > > > > > > > *Mary van der Riet (Phd), **Associate Professor* > *Discipline of Psychology, **School of Applied Human Sciences, College of > Humanities, University of KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa* > *email: vanderriet@ukzn.ac.za > **tel: +27 33 260 6163* > > ------------------------------ > *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Julian Williams > *Sent:* Saturday, 25 April 2020 20:24 > *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? > > Martin, David > > Yes a lot depends... on ?us?. > > Check out the report, where you can see how much was ?predicted? years > ago, even the possible public outrage ensuing government failures ; but yes > my decisive, main point was not to predict, but to ACT. > > David I agree the bioscience issues are important, but bear in mind that > our sloppy public health systems globally ( eg with wild life markets) > expose humanity to many new viruses ( they estimate 2-4 new viruses per > year) - our relations and actions shape this threat. > > Then also not just immediately, but imaginatively, to play with models > (and not just those reductive epidemiologists? ?predictions?) .. but to > imagineer a world subject that can act in future to tackle essentially > GLOBAL challenges. > > Best wishes > > Julian > > On 25 Apr 2020, at 18:10, Martin Packer wrote: > > That?s the problem with predicting - it all depends! :) > > Yes, coronavirus may become endemic, like flu or the common cold or > something worse. > > Or a vaccine may be developed. > > Or if 4 in 5 are somehow naturally resistant, and if most of the 1 in 5 > who become infected develop immunity as a result, the incidence of covid > could drop dramatically. > > Or we could all drink disinfectant. > > Martin > > > > On Apr 25, 2020, at 11:49 AM, David H Kirshner wrote: > > It is possible that the virus is eradicated, like SARS was, but that?s > increasingly unlikely. > More likely is that ?2019-nCoV joins the four coronaviruses now > circulating in people. ?I can imagine a scenario where this becomes a fifth > endemic human coronavirus,? said Stephen Morse of Columbia University?s > Mailman School of Public Health, an epidemiologist and expert on emerging > infectious diseases.? > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.statnews.com/2020/02/04/two-scenarios-if-new-coronavirus-isnt-contained/__;!!Mih3wA!ThfdTCeU2ryRbPka7RHFgNWVUGk7HbJjI0jipXGJzbBywWZQ3xCu_7nGxlMeAxUAUtO1KA$ > > > The fact that such a large proportion of people who contract the virus are > asymptomatic make this one very hard to contain. Of course, the possibility > of a vaccine would greatly reduce its human toll. > > David > > *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu *On > Behalf Of *Martin Packer > *Sent:* Saturday, April 25, 2020 11:14 AM > *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? > > David, > > There is talk about the possible eradication of the virus in Australia and > New Zealand, from what I have read. Eradication is difficult when no one > has resistance, but not impossible. Other virus infections have been > eradicated, as far as one can tell, such as smallpox. > > In Wuhan, where the infections started, which is a city of around 11 > million people, less that 70,000 cases were reported. Even if that is > vastly underreported by a factor of 10 it is less than 10%. And studies in > California suggest that only 1 in 5 have been infected, of whom 60% have > not experienced any symptoms. Only around 5% need hospitalization. > > Martin > > > > On Apr 25, 2020, at 10:46 AM, David H Kirshner wrote: > > Martin, > The scenario you sketched out is what I?d thought would/could happen, but > the epidemiologists don?t ever talk about eradicating the virus, they just > talk about slowing the spread so as not to overwhelm health care > facilities. Eventually, everyone who can get it will get it. So a > generation of older and weaker people will be adversely affected, many > dying. It?s only in the next generation when most people have gotten it > young that it will fade into the background, like the common cold. > David > > > *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu *On > Behalf Of *Martin Packer > *Sent:* Saturday, April 25, 2020 7:42 AM > *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? > > Julian, > > If no efforts are made to contain a virus it will move through a > population in a single wave, infecting many people and then disappearing as > no more potential hosts are available. > > If efforts to contain it ? lockdown ? are adequate there will be a single > much smaller wave, followed again by elimination as hosts are not available. > > If containment is not effective ? if people don?t isolate sufficiently ? > there may be a second wave when the containment is reduced. Or the first > wave may not be controlled. > > As you say, each country is responding differently. Australia seems close > to eliminating the virus after a single wave. The US and UK are somewhere > between starting a second wave and still being in a poorly controlled first > wave. Colombia seems to be still moving up its first wave. > > The behavior of a virus can be modeled, but only on the basis of > assumptions about how people are going to behave. Since we cannot predict > this behavior, we cannot even predict how the virus will or will not > spread, let alone the political, economic and social consequences. > > To say this is not to be pessimistic; pessimism would be predicting a dire > outcome. Rather, it highlights that the outcome lies in all our hands. > > Martin > > > > > > On Apr 25, 2020, at 1:43 AM, Julian Williams < > julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk> wrote: > > Andy/Greg > > Each nation state appears to be ?playing? the pandemic in different ways > (eg China, Italy, Australia, NZ, Sweden, UK, USA,? check out attached > report which comes from https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://pandemic.internationalsos.com/2019-ncov__;!!Mih3wA!ThfdTCeU2ryRbPka7RHFgNWVUGk7HbJjI0jipXGJzbBywWZQ3xCu_7nGxlMeAxVNZrA4Bg$ > > I get one of these reports every few days) while sometimes looking > to other countries to see how their numbers are growing/falling (and mostly > making a damn poor job of it). > > Before this all got going, the scientists already had a pretty good idea > how a pandemic works, and even what needed to be done to prepare for it: > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/revealed-uk-ministers-were-warned-last-year-of-risks-of-coronavirus-pandemic__;!!Mih3wA!ThfdTCeU2ryRbPka7RHFgNWVUGk7HbJjI0jipXGJzbBywWZQ3xCu_7nGxlMeAxV2NfCOcA$ > > And now we know a bit more than we did then. > > There is a prediction/warning there about a number of pandemic waves? > > In the second ?wave?, we ? the world subject-in-formation may have learnt > more, maybe there will be fewer deaths? Maybe we will rescue WHO, maybe > not (I won?t predict). But maybe the science community will be paying > serious attention, and especially to its duty to the ?public good?. But > there are some contradictory signs. In my own university we seem to be > about to enter a new austerity, (implemented from the top by a failing > leadership, led by a true academic, bio scientist no less!) > > What is clear is that the ?public? and its social movements are key to > forcing each government to act, and that in almost all cases our leaders > and rulers have followed along reluctantly ? even while the science and the > pandemic plan was there. > > In the third and subsequent waves? I agree it?s not predictable: the > outcomes will depend entirely on all of ?us?. > > And in the next ?big one?, the climate collapse? Maybe all this pandemic > ?play? will have helped prepare us, we maybe will learn how to build the > institutions, policies etc for the world?s ?public good? in time. I still > have hope. > > I use Vygotsky-Leontiev?s idea of ?play? as the leading activity of the > pre-schooler, as I find it complements the notion of world perezhivanie ? > yes, we are experiencing trauma and that drives activity to overcome, etc, > but also in this play we are acting, reflecting, and always ? above all - > imagining and re-imagining (modelling etc) our world future. > > Julian > > > > *From: * on behalf of Andy Blunden < > andyb@marxists.org> > *Reply-To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > *Date: *Saturday, 25 April 2020 at 02:08 > *To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? > > Greg, the word is polysemic, as Mike said, but I agree with Michael that > *perezhivaniya* are essentially collective experiences. As I say in the > article, that COVID will be experienced differently in different countries, > by different classes and social groups is an important part of this > process. It does not detract it from its being a single experience. > Huw, a "world subject" is emergent at this moment. It is implicit or > "in-itself" but I look forward to the appearance of such a world subject, > though who know how long and through what traumas we will pass before it is > an actuality. Like WW2, the COVID pandemic part of its birth process. > > - https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/seminars/perezhivanie.htm__;!!Mih3wA!ThfdTCeU2ryRbPka7RHFgNWVUGk7HbJjI0jipXGJzbBywWZQ3xCu_7nGxlMeAxXaNohk9Q$ , > > Notes, links, excerpts, 2009 > - > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Blunden_article*response.pdf__;Kw!!Mih3wA!ThfdTCeU2ryRbPka7RHFgNWVUGk7HbJjI0jipXGJzbBywWZQ3xCu_7nGxlMeAxVhLFzXNg$ > , > MCA article 2016 > - > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Coronavirus-pandemic.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!ThfdTCeU2ryRbPka7RHFgNWVUGk7HbJjI0jipXGJzbBywWZQ3xCu_7nGxlMeAxXI3WV9cw$ > > > Andy > > ------------------------------ > *Andy Blunden* > Hegel for Social Movements > > Home Page > > On 25/04/2020 4:01 am, Greg Thompson wrote: > > I'm wondering about Andy's suggestion that covid-19 is a (or maybe "is > creating a"?) world perezhivanie. That seems a really rich suggestion but > I'm not sure how many of us on the list really understand what he means by > this. > > Andy tends to just tell me to go read more and so I'm wondering if someone > else might be willing to take a stab at explaining what he might mean. > > Also, as a critical intervention, I am wondering whether covid-19 is the > "same" for everyone. We have folks in the U.S. who think it is basically > just a typical flu that has been turned into a political tool to attack the > current president. Or does that not matter for perezhivanie? > > (and just to be clear, my question is not whether or not this is true or > right or beautiful to think this way; my question is whether or not this is > how people are actually experiencing the world since I assume that this is > what perezhivanie is supposed to be "getting at". Or am I misunderstanding > perezhivanie?) > > So is there really a shared perezhivanie here? > (Is The Problem of Age the place to look for answers?) > > But if no one wants to take this up (perhaps too much ink has been spilt > over perezhivanie?), that's fine too. > > Cheers, > greg > > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!ThfdTCeU2ryRbPka7RHFgNWVUGk7HbJjI0jipXGJzbBywWZQ3xCu_7nGxlMeAxWwdlly0A$ > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!ThfdTCeU2ryRbPka7RHFgNWVUGk7HbJjI0jipXGJzbBywWZQ3xCu_7nGxlMeAxXVxb_JMg$ > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200427/dc08153f/attachment.html From anthonymbarra@gmail.com Sun Apr 26 16:13:35 2020 From: anthonymbarra@gmail.com (Anthony Barra) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2020 19:13:35 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? In-Reply-To: <018B6DB3-C8AD-4B69-A8F9-862E28EA787A@manchester.ac.uk> References: <7f661750-350f-9e76-d6b3-1598132af583@marxists.org> <1056380D-069C-40AE-934F-EA2A1212ACDB@manchester.ac.uk> <0E64BF76-A158-453E-B233-64D5E00625FA@cantab.net> <8DD6C766-811B-4B08-8B10-6ECA676FAA50@cantab.net> <04B33A84-A10E-4E3E-B7D4-358E9DD62EF6@manchester.ac.uk> <018B6DB3-C8AD-4B69-A8F9-862E28EA787A@manchester.ac.uk> Message-ID: Very interesting, thanks Julian. Knowing now of your modelling expertise, the only thing you could do to irritate me would be to NOT take 2 minutes to evaluate the following prediction: (source: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G19d6dsC5Xo__;!!Mih3wA!Qs7PVwyBLlBX6s_3d-JxxnnHQ1tmr31jEK4377C4CLkmUWJWtTt1zDRsb2C2hzVix8ziBg$ ) A: "So if you were going to bet on the proportion of people in America who are gonna get (Covid-19) over the course of the next 18 months, what would you think that number is?" B: 'Probably 30-50%.' C: "So if we say 50% of 340 million people, and a mortality rate of 1%, that would put us at 1.7 million dead. So if it was half of that, it's still an enormous number of people dead from this virus." D: 'Yeah, I think it's going to be more than people will imagine, but will it be cataclysmic? I don't think that's the case." *This was from a highly influential March 10 interview in my country, and very influential on me. I have since passed through mixed reactions, including defending the forecast, feeling misled by the forecast, and rationalizing the forecast as factually flawed but directionally accurate (thus, good). Business colleagues have been less forgiving: "the bar of performance for these people is very low" P.S. Although 'get our of our disciplinary backsides' is more colorful, two well-known synonymous ideas here in the States are "mental models" (Shane Parrish) and "Loserthink" (Scott Adams) -- if interested, both authors operate outside of academia and advocate the necessity of being able to see through various windows. It seems xmca is also a many-windowed place. Thanks ~ Anthony On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 6:00 PM Julian Williams < julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk> wrote: > Anthony > > This comment fits remarkably well with some work I have been doing and am > pursuing right now on the subject of modelling, and the teaching of > modelling (a long standing interest of mine, particularly in mathematics). > > You could say "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing"- although in this > case I suspect what your president is teaching us all (perhaps the > deliberate action of some sort of savant) is that a little knowledge is > dangerous, but ignorance of ones little knowledge is lethal. > > Having irritated you, now then: yes, our politicians and public generally > perhaps are inclined to reify models, (connects with what Anna stars has > called numberese) and we need to understand what models can and can't do: > in our teaching of modelling we have always emphasised the role of > assumptions in every model... And the need for every "answer" to be > interpreted in light of those assumptions, and the need to validate these > in light of explicit assumptions. We were quite successful in implementing > modelling in curriculums in many schools and universities for quite a while > (it's a long story) but ultimately it was an innovation too far. But maybe > all this talk of modelling will help us to revivify this... Let's see. > > But I referred to the 'predictions' (actually models, of course) of > pandemic that have been 'known' for quite a while, the need for PPE, > testing, isolation, lockdowns, and political fallout were all there, in > case and on the assumption "we" did not prepare. > > We now have some validations and as time speeds up we are getting new > models and validations. This is how 'facts' accumulate, ... > > But maybe too slow, and one of the accelerators could be the meta > cognition about "modelling" ... If it was understood that "flattening the > curve" was a fundamental misunderstanding about models it could help us. > And if we all realised that epidemiologists are great empirical modellers > but generally lacking explanatory theory and so hopelessly compromised in > practice it might help. > > They talk of "flattening the curve" while public health medical scientists > talk of "saving people's lives". Listen to the discourse and you will get > an idea who the politicians are engaging with. > > The public, and even the science community needs a grasp of the various > epistemological communities and disciplines, so we know what we know, what > we don't know and what the various sciences have to offer in an > interdisciplinary endeavour like this. As Anne Edwards has pointed out in > regard to interdisciplinary team working, in Etienne Wenger's terms, we > need awareness of the knowledge landscape, alongside our own silo ... In > my terms, we have to get our heads out of our own disciplinary backsides > and see the whole... (Meta disciplinary). > > Practical point: I am discussing resurrecting again a course in modelling > ... If anyone has similar thoughts get in touch. Ialso will post if I get > anywhere on this. > > Julian > > On 26 Apr 2020, at 21:32, Anthony Barra wrote: > > *"the ability to glance at a chart and interpret it is likely to be a > semiotic means not readily available to those without education to > interpret them"* > > . . . and this is especially true with the models, which are often not > intended to be "true" but rather persuasive, or "directionally true" -- > here is where being highly educated and 'chart-literate' might hurt more > than help (i.e., reading the charts accurately, but mistaking the modeling > as real data; or 'reading the text but missing the context'). > > It's a tricky landscape > > > > On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 3:54 PM mike cole wrote: > >> You raise a point that links to Mary's description, Martin >> >> *As for making visible the virus and the illness, of course the charts >> make visible aspects of infection. * >> >> I think that the ability to glance at a chart and interpret it is likely >> to be a semiotic means not readily available to >> those without education to interpret them. Or to rely on the source of >> information from this they come -- A government >> they have lost trust in. >> >> Professional vision, so to speak. >> >> >> mike >> >> On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 12:41 PM Martin Packer >> wrote: >> >>> Thanks to Mary and David for providing ?local' accounts? >>> >>> To take a shot at Mary?s question, Do we need governments to set up the >>> conditions for the actions of individuals? - it seems that David?s answer >>> is, we don't when there is a 'flexible and cooperative mindset,? perhaps >>> forged in previous shared difficulties. Perhaps that applies to S. Korea as >>> well. >>> >>> I suppose it should not be surprising that the most individualistic >>> nations, the UK and US, seem to be having the greatest difficulty in coming >>> together to face the situation. But even there, between individual and >>> national government are a set of institutions that I think could play an >>> important role in guiding people?s actions. >>> >>> Some simple examples that come to mind. Here, banks are expanding online >>> services and dropping charges for online transfers, thus removing a >>> barrier, albeit small, to providing financial assistance. Stores are >>> creating symbolic markers that make visible safer interpersonal distance ? >>> simple things like tape on the floor. I don?t know what stance the various >>> religious institutions are taking. These are small steps, but they help >>> nudge individual actions in the right direction. >>> >>> As for making visible the virus and the illness, of course the charts >>> make visible aspects of infection. Tests, when they are available, create >>> markers of infection and, hopefully, immunity. I worry that the media?s >>> focus on the extremely ill may not encourage people to make sensible >>> choices. >>> >>> One of the problems with staying at home is that while avoiding direct >>> contact is healthy, it also prevents first-hand experience of the illness >>> for most people. >>> >>> Martin >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Apr 26, 2020, at 3:40 AM, Mary van der Riet >>> wrote: >>> >>> I am struck in all of these conversations of the similarities with the >>> HIV pandemic . We face these issues daily in the Southern African region >>> (the highest prevalence of HIV globally). >>> We say 'it depends on us', and revert to information sharing, and >>> dependence on cognitive shifts and adaptations (all of the old behaviour >>> change theories Theory of Reasoned Action; Health Belief Models)- see the >>> risk, know what the risk means, know how to prevent it, and make changes to >>> your behaviour in order to protect yourself. >>> All of this is relevant for the COVID 10 pandemic, and much of it is not >>> working. We as educated adults see the risk, know the risk, know how to >>> protect ourselves (to the degree that scientists have informed us, and to >>> the degree that science knows about the transmission) and yet it is really >>> hard to change behaviour, to 'believe' that this is real >>> >>> And what does it mean for action? It means people don't social distance, >>> don't use masks, see themselves as infallible etc. >>> >>> The origin of actions/activity do/does not reside in cognition...we know >>> that from Activity theory, CHAT, etc. >>> >>> In the HIV pandemic in SA, there are still people who believe that you >>> are fine if you cant see the symptoms (loss of weight, skin conditions, >>> diarrohea - a fallacy by the way). A taxi driver said he would rather have >>> HIV than Covid 19 because he could 'see' that someone was or was not HIV >>> positive, but he is scared of Covid 19 because he cant 'see' it. Same >>> discourse, same consequences. >>> Then there was a period in SA where HIV public health messaging was >>> about showing coffins, and symbols of death to try to get people to take in >>> the seriousness of it all. Do we find this now? are those more directly >>> infected (someone in their family, seeing someone ill with Covid 19 - >>> doctors, nurses)- more convinced about the nature of the problem). Perhaps >>> not for some in the USA protesting this viral hoax. So, what changes >>> behaviour? >>> >>> The question is the same - what is the motive that drives the health >>> protection actions of individuals? The origin of behaviour is not >>> individual cognition. >>> >>> Uganda was seen to have been so effective in reducing HIV incidence >>> because it made HIV a notifiable disease. Is this draconian? Does it >>> infringe on individual rights? [In SA we have not done that, we have a >>> constitutional right to control and manage and keep private our HIV status; >>> AND we have huge levels of stigma (extreme fear of going for an HIV test in >>> a university context because people will 'see you there, and think you are >>> HIV positive). At the same time, young women at universities are afraid of >>> unplanned pregnancies because they are visible, (unlike HIV), and evidence >>> of sexual activity. So, contradictions and tensions in practices around >>> sexual activity in the context of 'risk' or vulnerability to HIV.] >>> Governments who can instruct people how to behave (ie take the >>> responsibility away from the individual) seem to have had more control over >>> the spread of the virus (SA during lockdown). So a rule or a law which >>> governs individual actions (and creating the context for an action, >>> prescribing what might be 'afforded' in the context) might be more >>> effective that the individual 'making a decision' >>> If condom use amongst young people is not a 'norm' it is difficult for >>> one person to engage with condom use. >>> >>> Do we need governments to set up the conditions for the actions of >>> individuals? >>> >>> Mary >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *Mary van der Riet (Phd), **Associate Professor* >>> *Discipline of Psychology, **School of Applied Human Sciences, College >>> of Humanities, University of KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa* >>> *email: vanderriet@ukzn.ac.za >>> **tel: +27 33 260 6163* >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>> on behalf of Julian Williams >>> *Sent:* Saturday, 25 April 2020 20:24 >>> *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? >>> >>> Martin, David >>> >>> Yes a lot depends... on ?us?. >>> >>> Check out the report, where you can see how much was ?predicted? years >>> ago, even the possible public outrage ensuing government failures ; but yes >>> my decisive, main point was not to predict, but to ACT. >>> >>> David I agree the bioscience issues are important, but bear in mind that >>> our sloppy public health systems globally ( eg with wild life markets) >>> expose humanity to many new viruses ( they estimate 2-4 new viruses per >>> year) - our relations and actions shape this threat. >>> >>> Then also not just immediately, but imaginatively, to play with models >>> (and not just those reductive epidemiologists? ?predictions?) .. but to >>> imagineer a world subject that can act in future to tackle essentially >>> GLOBAL challenges. >>> >>> Best wishes >>> >>> Julian >>> >>> On 25 Apr 2020, at 18:10, Martin Packer wrote: >>> >>> That?s the problem with predicting - it all depends! :) >>> >>> Yes, coronavirus may become endemic, like flu or the common cold or >>> something worse. >>> >>> Or a vaccine may be developed. >>> >>> Or if 4 in 5 are somehow naturally resistant, and if most of the 1 in 5 >>> who become infected develop immunity as a result, the incidence of covid >>> could drop dramatically. >>> >>> Or we could all drink disinfectant. >>> >>> Martin >>> >>> >>> >>> On Apr 25, 2020, at 11:49 AM, David H Kirshner wrote: >>> >>> It is possible that the virus is eradicated, like SARS was, but that?s >>> increasingly unlikely. >>> More likely is that ?2019-nCoV joins the four coronaviruses now >>> circulating in people. ?I can imagine a scenario where this becomes a fifth >>> endemic human coronavirus,? said Stephen Morse of Columbia University?s >>> Mailman School of Public Health, an epidemiologist and expert on emerging >>> infectious diseases.? >>> >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.statnews.com/2020/02/04/two-scenarios-if-new-coronavirus-isnt-contained/__;!!Mih3wA!Qs7PVwyBLlBX6s_3d-JxxnnHQ1tmr31jEK4377C4CLkmUWJWtTt1zDRsb2C2hzUQttgDJg$ >>> >>> >>> The fact that such a large proportion of people who contract the virus >>> are asymptomatic make this one very hard to contain. Of course, the >>> possibility of a vaccine would greatly reduce its human toll. >>> >>> David >>> >>> *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> > *On Behalf Of *Martin Packer >>> *Sent:* Saturday, April 25, 2020 11:14 AM >>> *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? >>> >>> David, >>> >>> There is talk about the possible eradication of the virus in Australia >>> and New Zealand, from what I have read. Eradication is difficult when no >>> one has resistance, but not impossible. Other virus infections have been >>> eradicated, as far as one can tell, such as smallpox. >>> >>> In Wuhan, where the infections started, which is a city of around 11 >>> million people, less that 70,000 cases were reported. Even if that is >>> vastly underreported by a factor of 10 it is less than 10%. And studies in >>> California suggest that only 1 in 5 have been infected, of whom 60% have >>> not experienced any symptoms. Only around 5% need hospitalization. >>> >>> Martin >>> >>> >>> >>> On Apr 25, 2020, at 10:46 AM, David H Kirshner wrote: >>> >>> Martin, >>> The scenario you sketched out is what I?d thought would/could happen, >>> but the epidemiologists don?t ever talk about eradicating the virus, they >>> just talk about slowing the spread so as not to overwhelm health care >>> facilities. Eventually, everyone who can get it will get it. So a >>> generation of older and weaker people will be adversely affected, many >>> dying. It?s only in the next generation when most people have gotten it >>> young that it will fade into the background, like the common cold. >>> David >>> >>> >>> *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> > *On Behalf Of *Martin Packer >>> *Sent:* Saturday, April 25, 2020 7:42 AM >>> *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? >>> >>> Julian, >>> >>> If no efforts are made to contain a virus it will move through a >>> population in a single wave, infecting many people and then disappearing as >>> no more potential hosts are available. >>> >>> If efforts to contain it ? lockdown ? are adequate there will be a >>> single much smaller wave, followed again by elimination as hosts are not >>> available. >>> >>> If containment is not effective ? if people don?t isolate sufficiently ? >>> there may be a second wave when the containment is reduced. Or the first >>> wave may not be controlled. >>> >>> As you say, each country is responding differently. Australia seems >>> close to eliminating the virus after a single wave. The US and UK are >>> somewhere between starting a second wave and still being in a poorly >>> controlled first wave. Colombia seems to be still moving up its first wave. >>> >>> The behavior of a virus can be modeled, but only on the basis of >>> assumptions about how people are going to behave. Since we cannot predict >>> this behavior, we cannot even predict how the virus will or will not >>> spread, let alone the political, economic and social consequences. >>> >>> To say this is not to be pessimistic; pessimism would be predicting a >>> dire outcome. Rather, it highlights that the outcome lies in all our hands. >>> >>> Martin >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Apr 25, 2020, at 1:43 AM, Julian Williams < >>> julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk> wrote: >>> >>> Andy/Greg >>> >>> Each nation state appears to be ?playing? the pandemic in different ways >>> (eg China, Italy, Australia, NZ, Sweden, UK, USA,? check out attached >>> report which comes from https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://pandemic.internationalsos.com/2019-ncov__;!!Mih3wA!Qs7PVwyBLlBX6s_3d-JxxnnHQ1tmr31jEK4377C4CLkmUWJWtTt1zDRsb2C2hzVHeS-qOg$ >>> >>> I get one of these reports every few days) while sometimes looking >>> to other countries to see how their numbers are growing/falling (and mostly >>> making a damn poor job of it). >>> >>> Before this all got going, the scientists already had a pretty good idea >>> how a pandemic works, and even what needed to be done to prepare for it: >>> >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/revealed-uk-ministers-were-warned-last-year-of-risks-of-coronavirus-pandemic__;!!Mih3wA!Qs7PVwyBLlBX6s_3d-JxxnnHQ1tmr31jEK4377C4CLkmUWJWtTt1zDRsb2C2hzVbfzqJgw$ >>> >>> And now we know a bit more than we did then. >>> >>> There is a prediction/warning there about a number of pandemic waves? >>> >>> In the second ?wave?, we ? the world subject-in-formation may have >>> learnt more, maybe there will be fewer deaths? Maybe we will rescue WHO, >>> maybe not (I won?t predict). But maybe the science community will be paying >>> serious attention, and especially to its duty to the ?public good?. But >>> there are some contradictory signs. In my own university we seem to be >>> about to enter a new austerity, (implemented from the top by a failing >>> leadership, led by a true academic, bio scientist no less!) >>> >>> What is clear is that the ?public? and its social movements are key to >>> forcing each government to act, and that in almost all cases our leaders >>> and rulers have followed along reluctantly ? even while the science and the >>> pandemic plan was there. >>> >>> In the third and subsequent waves? I agree it?s not predictable: the >>> outcomes will depend entirely on all of ?us?. >>> >>> And in the next ?big one?, the climate collapse? Maybe all this pandemic >>> ?play? will have helped prepare us, we maybe will learn how to build the >>> institutions, policies etc for the world?s ?public good? in time. I still >>> have hope. >>> >>> I use Vygotsky-Leontiev?s idea of ?play? as the leading activity of the >>> pre-schooler, as I find it complements the notion of world perezhivanie ? >>> yes, we are experiencing trauma and that drives activity to overcome, etc, >>> but also in this play we are acting, reflecting, and always ? above all - >>> imagining and re-imagining (modelling etc) our world future. >>> >>> Julian >>> >>> >>> >>> *From: * on behalf of Andy Blunden < >>> andyb@marxists.org> >>> *Reply-To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" >>> *Date: *Saturday, 25 April 2020 at 02:08 >>> *To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" >>> *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? >>> >>> Greg, the word is polysemic, as Mike said, but I agree with Michael that >>> *perezhivaniya* are essentially collective experiences. As I say in >>> the article, that COVID will be experienced differently in different >>> countries, by different classes and social groups is an important part of >>> this process. It does not detract it from its being a single experience. >>> Huw, a "world subject" is emergent at this moment. It is implicit or >>> "in-itself" but I look forward to the appearance of such a world subject, >>> though who know how long and through what traumas we will pass before it is >>> an actuality. Like WW2, the COVID pandemic part of its birth process. >>> >>> - https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/seminars/perezhivanie.htm__;!!Mih3wA!Qs7PVwyBLlBX6s_3d-JxxnnHQ1tmr31jEK4377C4CLkmUWJWtTt1zDRsb2C2hzXUyxR-ww$ , >>> >>> Notes, links, excerpts, 2009 >>> - >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Blunden_article*response.pdf__;Kw!!Mih3wA!Qs7PVwyBLlBX6s_3d-JxxnnHQ1tmr31jEK4377C4CLkmUWJWtTt1zDRsb2C2hzXJbFibFA$ >>> , >>> MCA article 2016 >>> - >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Coronavirus-pandemic.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!Qs7PVwyBLlBX6s_3d-JxxnnHQ1tmr31jEK4377C4CLkmUWJWtTt1zDRsb2C2hzU7oOre-Q$ >>> >>> >>> Andy >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *Andy Blunden* >>> Hegel for Social Movements >>> >>> Home Page >>> >>> On 25/04/2020 4:01 am, Greg Thompson wrote: >>> >>> I'm wondering about Andy's suggestion that covid-19 is a (or maybe "is >>> creating a"?) world perezhivanie. That seems a really rich suggestion but >>> I'm not sure how many of us on the list really understand what he means by >>> this. >>> >>> Andy tends to just tell me to go read more and so I'm wondering if >>> someone else might be willing to take a stab at explaining what he might >>> mean. >>> >>> Also, as a critical intervention, I am wondering whether covid-19 is the >>> "same" for everyone. We have folks in the U.S. who think it is basically >>> just a typical flu that has been turned into a political tool to attack the >>> current president. Or does that not matter for perezhivanie? >>> >>> (and just to be clear, my question is not whether or not this is true or >>> right or beautiful to think this way; my question is whether or not this is >>> how people are actually experiencing the world since I assume that this is >>> what perezhivanie is supposed to be "getting at". Or am I misunderstanding >>> perezhivanie?) >>> >>> So is there really a shared perezhivanie here? >>> (Is The Problem of Age the place to look for answers?) >>> >>> But if no one wants to take this up (perhaps too much ink has been spilt >>> over perezhivanie?), that's fine too. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> greg >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>> Assistant Professor >>> Department of Anthropology >>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >>> Brigham Young University >>> Provo, UT 84602 >>> WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!Qs7PVwyBLlBX6s_3d-JxxnnHQ1tmr31jEK4377C4CLkmUWJWtTt1zDRsb2C2hzXSY64Kvg$ >>> >>> >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!Qs7PVwyBLlBX6s_3d-JxxnnHQ1tmr31jEK4377C4CLkmUWJWtTt1zDRsb2C2hzWFkHG6xw$ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> >> the creation of utopias ? and their exhaustive criticism ? is the proper >> and distinctive method of sociology. H.G.Wells >> >> --------------------------------------------------- >> For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other >> members of LCHC, visit >> lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the >> research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. >> >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200426/11d62758/attachment.html From greg.a.thompson@gmail.com Sun Apr 26 18:41:20 2020 From: greg.a.thompson@gmail.com (Greg Thompson) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2020 19:41:20 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Valientes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Also need a meat butcher and a grocery bagger and a police officer and a Walmart stock person and a farm worker and so on. All the other low wage workers who are risking their lives so we have access to stuff and ?the economy? rolls on. On Sat, Apr 25, 2020 at 7:11 AM Ulvi ??il wrote: > -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!WqsI_6KmV4kXQGQM6MiJfQZdK9x3-aCIkK9C7gt4YPttb7GvT62fCylNSfE5vpSea2xI1A$ https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!WqsI_6KmV4kXQGQM6MiJfQZdK9x3-aCIkK9C7gt4YPttb7GvT62fCylNSfE5vpT9Gxn4_Q$ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200426/63f942e5/attachment.html From mpacker@cantab.net Sun Apr 26 18:46:08 2020 From: mpacker@cantab.net (Martin Packer) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2020 20:46:08 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? In-Reply-To: References: <7f661750-350f-9e76-d6b3-1598132af583@marxists.org> <1056380D-069C-40AE-934F-EA2A1212ACDB@manchester.ac.uk> <0E64BF76-A158-453E-B233-64D5E00625FA@cantab.net> <8DD6C766-811B-4B08-8B10-6ECA676FAA50@cantab.net> <04B33A84-A10E-4E3E-B7D4-358E9DD62EF6@manchester.ac.uk> <018B6DB3-C8AD-4B69-A8F9-862E28EA787A@manchester.ac.uk> Message-ID: <5AE76596-7C73-42C0-892B-B0A58040E4B1@cantab.net> Notice the conditionals, Anthony. ?If? the infection rate is 50%, and ?if? the death rate among those is 1%. The rest is simple mathematics. Is that a prediction? Martin > On Apr 26, 2020, at 6:13 PM, Anthony Barra wrote: > > Very interesting, thanks Julian. > > Knowing now of your modelling expertise, the only thing you could do to irritate me would be to NOT take 2 minutes to evaluate the following prediction: > (source: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G19d6dsC5Xo__;!!Mih3wA!SIoeoLMqOrHtBBad82sH3yScl6LeetA-VkV_BSS31krvHtw3mjiqs06VcN2f2TKW6Pz4hQ$ ) > A: "So if you were going to bet on the proportion of people in America who are gonna get (Covid-19) over the course of the next 18 months, what would you think that number is?" > B: 'Probably 30-50%.' C: "So if we say 50% of 340 million people, and a mortality rate of 1%, that would put us at 1.7 million dead. So if it was half of that, it's still an enormous number of people dead from this virus." D: 'Yeah, I think it's going to be more than people will imagine, but will it be cataclysmic? I don't think that's the case." > *This was from a highly influential March 10 interview in my country, and very influential on me. I have since passed through mixed reactions, including defending the forecast, feeling misled by the forecast, and rationalizing the forecast as factually flawed but directionally accurate (thus, good). Business colleagues have been less forgiving: "the bar of performance for these people is very low" > > P.S. Although 'get our of our disciplinary backsides' is more colorful, two well-known synonymous ideas here in the States are "mental models" (Shane Parrish) and "Loserthink" (Scott Adams) -- if interested, both authors operate outside of academia and advocate the necessity of being able to see through various windows. > > It seems xmca is also a many-windowed place. > > Thanks ~ > Anthony > > On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 6:00 PM Julian Williams > wrote: > Anthony > > This comment fits remarkably well with some work I have been doing and am pursuing right now on the subject of modelling, and the teaching of modelling (a long standing interest of mine, particularly in mathematics). > > You could say "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing"- although in this case I suspect what your president is teaching us all (perhaps the deliberate action of some sort of savant) is that a little knowledge is dangerous, but ignorance of ones little knowledge is lethal. > > Having irritated you, now then: yes, our politicians and public generally perhaps are inclined to reify models, (connects with what Anna stars has called numberese) and we need to understand what models can and can't do: in our teaching of modelling we have always emphasised the role of assumptions in every model... And the need for every "answer" to be interpreted in light of those assumptions, and the need to validate these in light of explicit assumptions. We were quite successful in implementing modelling in curriculums in many schools and universities for quite a while (it's a long story) but ultimately it was an innovation too far. But maybe all this talk of modelling will help us to revivify this... Let's see. > > But I referred to the 'predictions' (actually models, of course) of pandemic that have been 'known' for quite a while, the need for PPE, testing, isolation, lockdowns, and political fallout were all there, in case and on the assumption "we" did not prepare. > > We now have some validations and as time speeds up we are getting new models and validations. This is how 'facts' accumulate, ... > > But maybe too slow, and one of the accelerators could be the meta cognition about "modelling" ... If it was understood that "flattening the curve" was a fundamental misunderstanding about models it could help us. And if we all realised that epidemiologists are great empirical modellers but generally lacking explanatory theory and so hopelessly compromised in practice it might help. > > They talk of "flattening the curve" while public health medical scientists talk of "saving people's lives". Listen to the discourse and you will get an idea who the politicians are engaging with. > > The public, and even the science community needs a grasp of the various epistemological communities and disciplines, so we know what we know, what we don't know and what the various sciences have to offer in an interdisciplinary endeavour like this. As Anne Edwards has pointed out in regard to interdisciplinary team working, in Etienne Wenger's terms, we need awareness of the knowledge landscape, alongside our own silo ... In my terms, we have to get our heads out of our own disciplinary backsides and see the whole... (Meta disciplinary). > > Practical point: I am discussing resurrecting again a course in modelling ... If anyone has similar thoughts get in touch. Ialso will post if I get anywhere on this. > > Julian > > On 26 Apr 2020, at 21:32, Anthony Barra > wrote: > >> "the ability to glance at a chart and interpret it is likely to be a semiotic means not readily available to those without education to interpret them" >> >> . . . and this is especially true with the models, which are often not intended to be "true" but rather persuasive, or "directionally true" -- here is where being highly educated and 'chart-literate' might hurt more than help (i.e., reading the charts accurately, but mistaking the modeling as real data; or 'reading the text but missing the context'). >> >> It's a tricky landscape >> >> >> >> On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 3:54 PM mike cole > wrote: >> You raise a point that links to Mary's description, Martin >> >> As for making visible the virus and the illness, of course the charts make visible aspects of infection. >> >> I think that the ability to glance at a chart and interpret it is likely to be a semiotic means not readily available to >> those without education to interpret them. Or to rely on the source of information from this they come -- A government >> they have lost trust in. >> >> Professional vision, so to speak. >> >> >> mike >> >> On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 12:41 PM Martin Packer > wrote: >> Thanks to Mary and David for providing ?local' accounts? >> >> To take a shot at Mary?s question, Do we need governments to set up the conditions for the actions of individuals? - it seems that David?s answer is, we don't when there is a 'flexible and cooperative mindset,? perhaps forged in previous shared difficulties. Perhaps that applies to S. Korea as well. >> >> I suppose it should not be surprising that the most individualistic nations, the UK and US, seem to be having the greatest difficulty in coming together to face the situation. But even there, between individual and national government are a set of institutions that I think could play an important role in guiding people?s actions. >> >> Some simple examples that come to mind. Here, banks are expanding online services and dropping charges for online transfers, thus removing a barrier, albeit small, to providing financial assistance. Stores are creating symbolic markers that make visible safer interpersonal distance ? simple things like tape on the floor. I don?t know what stance the various religious institutions are taking. These are small steps, but they help nudge individual actions in the right direction. >> >> As for making visible the virus and the illness, of course the charts make visible aspects of infection. Tests, when they are available, create markers of infection and, hopefully, immunity. I worry that the media?s focus on the extremely ill may not encourage people to make sensible choices. >> >> One of the problems with staying at home is that while avoiding direct contact is healthy, it also prevents first-hand experience of the illness for most people. >> >> Martin >> >> >> >> >>> On Apr 26, 2020, at 3:40 AM, Mary van der Riet > wrote: >>> >>> I am struck in all of these conversations of the similarities with the HIV pandemic . We face these issues daily in the Southern African region (the highest prevalence of HIV globally). >>> We say 'it depends on us', and revert to information sharing, and dependence on cognitive shifts and adaptations (all of the old behaviour change theories Theory of Reasoned Action; Health Belief Models)- see the risk, know what the risk means, know how to prevent it, and make changes to your behaviour in order to protect yourself. >>> All of this is relevant for the COVID 10 pandemic, and much of it is not working. We as educated adults see the risk, know the risk, know how to protect ourselves (to the degree that scientists have informed us, and to the degree that science knows about the transmission) and yet it is really hard to change behaviour, to 'believe' that this is real >>> >>> And what does it mean for action? It means people don't social distance, don't use masks, see themselves as infallible etc. >>> >>> The origin of actions/activity do/does not reside in cognition...we know that from Activity theory, CHAT, etc. >>> >>> In the HIV pandemic in SA, there are still people who believe that you are fine if you cant see the symptoms (loss of weight, skin conditions, diarrohea - a fallacy by the way). A taxi driver said he would rather have HIV than Covid 19 because he could 'see' that someone was or was not HIV positive, but he is scared of Covid 19 because he cant 'see' it. Same discourse, same consequences. >>> Then there was a period in SA where HIV public health messaging was about showing coffins, and symbols of death to try to get people to take in the seriousness of it all. Do we find this now? are those more directly infected (someone in their family, seeing someone ill with Covid 19 - doctors, nurses)- more convinced about the nature of the problem). Perhaps not for some in the USA protesting this viral hoax. So, what changes behaviour? >>> >>> The question is the same - what is the motive that drives the health protection actions of individuals? The origin of behaviour is not individual cognition. >>> >>> Uganda was seen to have been so effective in reducing HIV incidence because it made HIV a notifiable disease. Is this draconian? Does it infringe on individual rights? [In SA we have not done that, we have a constitutional right to control and manage and keep private our HIV status; AND we have huge levels of stigma (extreme fear of going for an HIV test in a university context because people will 'see you there, and think you are HIV positive). At the same time, young women at universities are afraid of unplanned pregnancies because they are visible, (unlike HIV), and evidence of sexual activity. So, contradictions and tensions in practices around sexual activity in the context of 'risk' or vulnerability to HIV.] Governments who can instruct people how to behave (ie take the responsibility away from the individual) seem to have had more control over the spread of the virus (SA during lockdown). So a rule or a law which governs individual actions (and creating the context for an action, prescribing what might be 'afforded' in the context) might be more effective that the individual 'making a decision' >>> If condom use amongst young people is not a 'norm' it is difficult for one person to engage with condom use. >>> >>> Do we need governments to set up the conditions for the actions of individuals? >>> >>> Mary >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Mary van der Riet (Phd), Associate Professor >>> Discipline of Psychology, School of Applied Human Sciences, College of Humanities, University of KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa >>> email: vanderriet@ukzn.ac.za tel: +27 33 260 6163 >>> >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Julian Williams > >>> Sent: Saturday, 25 April 2020 20:24 >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? >>> >>> Martin, David >>> >>> Yes a lot depends... on ?us?. >>> >>> Check out the report, where you can see how much was ?predicted? years ago, even the possible public outrage ensuing government failures ; but yes my decisive, main point was not to predict, but to ACT. >>> >>> David I agree the bioscience issues are important, but bear in mind that our sloppy public health systems globally ( eg with wild life markets) expose humanity to many new viruses ( they estimate 2-4 new viruses per year) - our relations and actions shape this threat. >>> >>> Then also not just immediately, but imaginatively, to play with models (and not just those reductive epidemiologists? ?predictions?) .. but to imagineer a world subject that can act in future to tackle essentially GLOBAL challenges. >>> >>> Best wishes >>> >>> Julian >>> >>> On 25 Apr 2020, at 18:10, Martin Packer > wrote: >>> >>>> That?s the problem with predicting - it all depends! :) >>>> >>>> Yes, coronavirus may become endemic, like flu or the common cold or something worse. >>>> >>>> Or a vaccine may be developed. >>>> >>>> Or if 4 in 5 are somehow naturally resistant, and if most of the 1 in 5 who become infected develop immunity as a result, the incidence of covid could drop dramatically. >>>> >>>> Or we could all drink disinfectant. >>>> >>>> Martin >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Apr 25, 2020, at 11:49 AM, David H Kirshner > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> It is possible that the virus is eradicated, like SARS was, but that?s increasingly unlikely. >>>>> More likely is that ?2019-nCoV joins the four coronaviruses now circulating in people. ?I can imagine a scenario where this becomes a fifth endemic human coronavirus,? said Stephen Morse of Columbia University?s Mailman School of Public Health, an epidemiologist and expert on emerging infectious diseases.? >>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.statnews.com/2020/02/04/two-scenarios-if-new-coronavirus-isnt-contained/__;!!Mih3wA!SIoeoLMqOrHtBBad82sH3yScl6LeetA-VkV_BSS31krvHtw3mjiqs06VcN2f2TLZvmH3Ow$ >>>>> >>>>> The fact that such a large proportion of people who contract the virus are asymptomatic make this one very hard to contain. Of course, the possibility of a vaccine would greatly reduce its human toll. >>>>> >>>>> David >>>>> >>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > On Behalf Of Martin Packer >>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 11:14 AM >>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? >>>>> >>>>> David, >>>>> >>>>> There is talk about the possible eradication of the virus in Australia and New Zealand, from what I have read. Eradication is difficult when no one has resistance, but not impossible. Other virus infections have been eradicated, as far as one can tell, such as smallpox. >>>>> >>>>> In Wuhan, where the infections started, which is a city of around 11 million people, less that 70,000 cases were reported. Even if that is vastly underreported by a factor of 10 it is less than 10%. And studies in California suggest that only 1 in 5 have been infected, of whom 60% have not experienced any symptoms. Only around 5% need hospitalization. >>>>> >>>>> Martin >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 25, 2020, at 10:46 AM, David H Kirshner > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Martin, >>>>> The scenario you sketched out is what I?d thought would/could happen, but the epidemiologists don?t ever talk about eradicating the virus, they just talk about slowing the spread so as not to overwhelm health care facilities. Eventually, everyone who can get it will get it. So a generation of older and weaker people will be adversely affected, many dying. It?s only in the next generation when most people have gotten it young that it will fade into the background, like the common cold. >>>>> David >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > On Behalf Of Martin Packer >>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 7:42 AM >>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? >>>>> >>>>> Julian, >>>>> >>>>> If no efforts are made to contain a virus it will move through a population in a single wave, infecting many people and then disappearing as no more potential hosts are available. >>>>> >>>>> If efforts to contain it ? lockdown ? are adequate there will be a single much smaller wave, followed again by elimination as hosts are not available. >>>>> >>>>> If containment is not effective ? if people don?t isolate sufficiently ? there may be a second wave when the containment is reduced. Or the first wave may not be controlled. >>>>> >>>>> As you say, each country is responding differently. Australia seems close to eliminating the virus after a single wave. The US and UK are somewhere between starting a second wave and still being in a poorly controlled first wave. Colombia seems to be still moving up its first wave. >>>>> >>>>> The behavior of a virus can be modeled, but only on the basis of assumptions about how people are going to behave. Since we cannot predict this behavior, we cannot even predict how the virus will or will not spread, let alone the political, economic and social consequences. >>>>> >>>>> To say this is not to be pessimistic; pessimism would be predicting a dire outcome. Rather, it highlights that the outcome lies in all our hands. >>>>> >>>>> Martin >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 25, 2020, at 1:43 AM, Julian Williams > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Andy/Greg >>>>> >>>>> Each nation state appears to be ?playing? the pandemic in different ways (eg China, Italy, Australia, NZ, Sweden, UK, USA,? check out attached report which comes from https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://pandemic.internationalsos.com/2019-ncov__;!!Mih3wA!SIoeoLMqOrHtBBad82sH3yScl6LeetA-VkV_BSS31krvHtw3mjiqs06VcN2f2TLDDYyKjg$ I get one of these reports every few days) while sometimes looking to other countries to see how their numbers are growing/falling (and mostly making a damn poor job of it). >>>>> >>>>> Before this all got going, the scientists already had a pretty good idea how a pandemic works, and even what needed to be done to prepare for it: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/revealed-uk-ministers-were-warned-last-year-of-risks-of-coronavirus-pandemic__;!!Mih3wA!SIoeoLMqOrHtBBad82sH3yScl6LeetA-VkV_BSS31krvHtw3mjiqs06VcN2f2TLEdihpRw$ >>>>> And now we know a bit more than we did then. >>>>> >>>>> There is a prediction/warning there about a number of pandemic waves? >>>>> >>>>> In the second ?wave?, we ? the world subject-in-formation may have learnt more, maybe there will be fewer deaths? Maybe we will rescue WHO, maybe not (I won?t predict). But maybe the science community will be paying serious attention, and especially to its duty to the ?public good?. But there are some contradictory signs. In my own university we seem to be about to enter a new austerity, (implemented from the top by a failing leadership, led by a true academic, bio scientist no less!) >>>>> >>>>> What is clear is that the ?public? and its social movements are key to forcing each government to act, and that in almost all cases our leaders and rulers have followed along reluctantly ? even while the science and the pandemic plan was there. >>>>> >>>>> In the third and subsequent waves? I agree it?s not predictable: the outcomes will depend entirely on all of ?us?. >>>>> >>>>> And in the next ?big one?, the climate collapse? Maybe all this pandemic ?play? will have helped prepare us, we maybe will learn how to build the institutions, policies etc for the world?s ?public good? in time. I still have hope. >>>>> >>>>> I use Vygotsky-Leontiev?s idea of ?play? as the leading activity of the pre-schooler, as I find it complements the notion of world perezhivanie ? yes, we are experiencing trauma and that drives activity to overcome, etc, but also in this play we are acting, reflecting, and always ? above all - imagining and re-imagining (modelling etc) our world future. >>>>> >>>>> Julian >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: > on behalf of Andy Blunden > >>>>> Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > >>>>> Date: Saturday, 25 April 2020 at 02:08 >>>>> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > >>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? >>>>> >>>>> Greg, the word is polysemic, as Mike said, but I agree with Michael that perezhivaniya are essentially collective experiences. As I say in the article, that COVID will be experienced differently in different countries, by different classes and social groups is an important part of this process. It does not detract it from its being a single experience. >>>>> Huw, a "world subject" is emergent at this moment. It is implicit or "in-itself" but I look forward to the appearance of such a world subject, though who know how long and through what traumas we will pass before it is an actuality. Like WW2, the COVID pandemic part of its birth process. >>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/seminars/perezhivanie.htm__;!!Mih3wA!SIoeoLMqOrHtBBad82sH3yScl6LeetA-VkV_BSS31krvHtw3mjiqs06VcN2f2TIzlgLDFg$ , Notes, links, excerpts, 2009 >>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Blunden_article*response.pdf__;Kw!!Mih3wA!SIoeoLMqOrHtBBad82sH3yScl6LeetA-VkV_BSS31krvHtw3mjiqs06VcN2f2TJY-EVSaA$ , MCA article 2016 >>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Coronavirus-pandemic.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!SIoeoLMqOrHtBBad82sH3yScl6LeetA-VkV_BSS31krvHtw3mjiqs06VcN2f2TJ7GVHCpg$ >>>>> Andy >>>>> >>>>> Andy Blunden >>>>> Hegel for Social Movements >>>>> Home Page >>>>> On 25/04/2020 4:01 am, Greg Thompson wrote: >>>>> I'm wondering about Andy's suggestion that covid-19 is a (or maybe "is creating a"?) world perezhivanie. That seems a really rich suggestion but I'm not sure how many of us on the list really understand what he means by this. >>>>> >>>>> Andy tends to just tell me to go read more and so I'm wondering if someone else might be willing to take a stab at explaining what he might mean. >>>>> >>>>> Also, as a critical intervention, I am wondering whether covid-19 is the "same" for everyone. We have folks in the U.S. who think it is basically just a typical flu that has been turned into a political tool to attack the current president. Or does that not matter for perezhivanie? >>>>> >>>>> (and just to be clear, my question is not whether or not this is true or right or beautiful to think this way; my question is whether or not this is how people are actually experiencing the world since I assume that this is what perezhivanie is supposed to be "getting at". Or am I misunderstanding perezhivanie?) >>>>> >>>>> So is there really a shared perezhivanie here? >>>>> (Is The Problem of Age the place to look for answers?) >>>>> >>>>> But if no one wants to take this up (perhaps too much ink has been spilt over perezhivanie?), that's fine too. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> greg >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>>>> Assistant Professor >>>>> Department of Anthropology >>>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >>>>> Brigham Young University >>>>> Provo, UT 84602 >>>>> WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!SIoeoLMqOrHtBBad82sH3yScl6LeetA-VkV_BSS31krvHtw3mjiqs06VcN2f2TIG2wDg7w$ >>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!SIoeoLMqOrHtBBad82sH3yScl6LeetA-VkV_BSS31krvHtw3mjiqs06VcN2f2TJrt0vCnA$ >>>>> >> >> >> >> -- >>> the creation of utopias ? and their exhaustive criticism ? is the proper and distinctive method of sociology. H.G.Wells >> >> --------------------------------------------------- >> For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit >> lchc.ucsd.edu . For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu . >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200426/d56a16e3/attachment.html From VanDerRiet@ukzn.ac.za Mon Apr 27 02:56:09 2020 From: VanDerRiet@ukzn.ac.za (Mary van der Riet) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 09:56:09 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? In-Reply-To: References: <7f661750-350f-9e76-d6b3-1598132af583@marxists.org> <1056380D-069C-40AE-934F-EA2A1212ACDB@manchester.ac.uk> <0E64BF76-A158-453E-B233-64D5E00625FA@cantab.net> <8DD6C766-811B-4B08-8B10-6ECA676FAA50@cantab.net> <04B33A84-A10E-4E3E-B7D4-358E9DD62EF6@manchester.ac.uk> , Message-ID: Dear Anthony We once used a prevalence bar chart to show community members in a Change Lab intervention how young South African women were disproportionatly infected by HIV. THey turned the argument back to us and said 'well yes, they are then to blame for HIV'. Of course our point was to highlight vulnerability. Why young women have the highest incidence and prevalence of HIV in SA is related to gender, age disparate relationships and a few other things. It is still about 'unprotected' heterosexual sex, rather than the 'fault' of women Mary Mary van der Riet (Phd), Associate Professor Discipline of Psychology, School of Applied Human Sciences, College of Humanities, University of KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa email: vanderriet@ukzn.ac.za tel: +27 33 260 6163 ________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Anthony Barra Sent: Sunday, 26 April 2020 22:28 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? "the ability to glance at a chart and interpret it is likely to be a semiotic means not readily available to those without education to interpret them" . . . and this is especially true with the models, which are often not intended to be "true" but rather persuasive, or "directionally true" -- here is where being highly educated and 'chart-literate' might hurt more than help (i.e., reading the charts accurately, but mistaking the modeling as real data; or 'reading the text but missing the context'). It's a tricky landscape On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 3:54 PM mike cole > wrote: You raise a point that links to Mary's description, Martin As for making visible the virus and the illness, of course the charts make visible aspects of infection. I think that the ability to glance at a chart and interpret it is likely to be a semiotic means not readily available to those without education to interpret them. Or to rely on the source of information from this they come -- A government they have lost trust in. Professional vision, so to speak. mike On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 12:41 PM Martin Packer > wrote: Thanks to Mary and David for providing ?local' accounts? To take a shot at Mary?s question, Do we need governments to set up the conditions for the actions of individuals? - it seems that David?s answer is, we don't when there is a 'flexible and cooperative mindset,? perhaps forged in previous shared difficulties. Perhaps that applies to S. Korea as well. I suppose it should not be surprising that the most individualistic nations, the UK and US, seem to be having the greatest difficulty in coming together to face the situation. But even there, between individual and national government are a set of institutions that I think could play an important role in guiding people?s actions. Some simple examples that come to mind. Here, banks are expanding online services and dropping charges for online transfers, thus removing a barrier, albeit small, to providing financial assistance. Stores are creating symbolic markers that make visible safer interpersonal distance ? simple things like tape on the floor. I don?t know what stance the various religious institutions are taking. These are small steps, but they help nudge individual actions in the right direction. As for making visible the virus and the illness, of course the charts make visible aspects of infection. Tests, when they are available, create markers of infection and, hopefully, immunity. I worry that the media?s focus on the extremely ill may not encourage people to make sensible choices. One of the problems with staying at home is that while avoiding direct contact is healthy, it also prevents first-hand experience of the illness for most people. Martin On Apr 26, 2020, at 3:40 AM, Mary van der Riet > wrote: I am struck in all of these conversations of the similarities with the HIV pandemic . We face these issues daily in the Southern African region (the highest prevalence of HIV globally). We say 'it depends on us', and revert to information sharing, and dependence on cognitive shifts and adaptations (all of the old behaviour change theories Theory of Reasoned Action; Health Belief Models)- see the risk, know what the risk means, know how to prevent it, and make changes to your behaviour in order to protect yourself. All of this is relevant for the COVID 10 pandemic, and much of it is not working. We as educated adults see the risk, know the risk, know how to protect ourselves (to the degree that scientists have informed us, and to the degree that science knows about the transmission) and yet it is really hard to change behaviour, to 'believe' that this is real And what does it mean for action? It means people don't social distance, don't use masks, see themselves as infallible etc. The origin of actions/activity do/does not reside in cognition...we know that from Activity theory, CHAT, etc. In the HIV pandemic in SA, there are still people who believe that you are fine if you cant see the symptoms (loss of weight, skin conditions, diarrohea - a fallacy by the way). A taxi driver said he would rather have HIV than Covid 19 because he could 'see' that someone was or was not HIV positive, but he is scared of Covid 19 because he cant 'see' it. Same discourse, same consequences. Then there was a period in SA where HIV public health messaging was about showing coffins, and symbols of death to try to get people to take in the seriousness of it all. Do we find this now? are those more directly infected (someone in their family, seeing someone ill with Covid 19 - doctors, nurses)- more convinced about the nature of the problem). Perhaps not for some in the USA protesting this viral hoax. So, what changes behaviour? The question is the same - what is the motive that drives the health protection actions of individuals? The origin of behaviour is not individual cognition. Uganda was seen to have been so effective in reducing HIV incidence because it made HIV a notifiable disease. Is this draconian? Does it infringe on individual rights? [In SA we have not done that, we have a constitutional right to control and manage and keep private our HIV status; AND we have huge levels of stigma (extreme fear of going for an HIV test in a university context because people will 'see you there, and think you are HIV positive). At the same time, young women at universities are afraid of unplanned pregnancies because they are visible, (unlike HIV), and evidence of sexual activity. So, contradictions and tensions in practices around sexual activity in the context of 'risk' or vulnerability to HIV.] Governments who can instruct people how to behave (ie take the responsibility away from the individual) seem to have had more control over the spread of the virus (SA during lockdown). So a rule or a law which governs individual actions (and creating the context for an action, prescribing what might be 'afforded' in the context) might be more effective that the individual 'making a decision' If condom use amongst young people is not a 'norm' it is difficult for one person to engage with condom use. Do we need governments to set up the conditions for the actions of individuals? Mary Mary van der Riet (Phd), Associate Professor Discipline of Psychology, School of Applied Human Sciences, College of Humanities, University of KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa email: vanderriet@ukzn.ac.za tel: +27 33 260 6163 ________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Julian Williams > Sent: Saturday, 25 April 2020 20:24 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? Martin, David Yes a lot depends... on ?us?. Check out the report, where you can see how much was ?predicted? years ago, even the possible public outrage ensuing government failures ; but yes my decisive, main point was not to predict, but to ACT. David I agree the bioscience issues are important, but bear in mind that our sloppy public health systems globally ( eg with wild life markets) expose humanity to many new viruses ( they estimate 2-4 new viruses per year) - our relations and actions shape this threat. Then also not just immediately, but imaginatively, to play with models (and not just those reductive epidemiologists? ?predictions?) .. but to imagineer a world subject that can act in future to tackle essentially GLOBAL challenges. Best wishes Julian On 25 Apr 2020, at 18:10, Martin Packer > wrote: That?s the problem with predicting - it all depends! :) Yes, coronavirus may become endemic, like flu or the common cold or something worse. Or a vaccine may be developed. Or if 4 in 5 are somehow naturally resistant, and if most of the 1 in 5 who become infected develop immunity as a result, the incidence of covid could drop dramatically. Or we could all drink disinfectant. Martin On Apr 25, 2020, at 11:49 AM, David H Kirshner > wrote: It is possible that the virus is eradicated, like SARS was, but that?s increasingly unlikely. More likely is that ?2019-nCoV joins the four coronaviruses now circulating in people. ?I can imagine a scenario where this becomes a fifth endemic human coronavirus,? said Stephen Morse of Columbia University?s Mailman School of Public Health, an epidemiologist and expert on emerging infectious diseases.? https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.statnews.com/2020/02/04/two-scenarios-if-new-coronavirus-isnt-contained/__;!!Mih3wA!WvgOn-uXjvXtDy74TSuzRGj6qccOKwyYXrHkdc4KVLb5AUgCxewl0HNmT_xQGX_7LbKmJQ$ The fact that such a large proportion of people who contract the virus are asymptomatic make this one very hard to contain. Of course, the possibility of a vaccine would greatly reduce its human toll. David From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > On Behalf Of Martin Packer Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 11:14 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? David, There is talk about the possible eradication of the virus in Australia and New Zealand, from what I have read. Eradication is difficult when no one has resistance, but not impossible. Other virus infections have been eradicated, as far as one can tell, such as smallpox. In Wuhan, where the infections started, which is a city of around 11 million people, less that 70,000 cases were reported. Even if that is vastly underreported by a factor of 10 it is less than 10%. And studies in California suggest that only 1 in 5 have been infected, of whom 60% have not experienced any symptoms. Only around 5% need hospitalization. Martin On Apr 25, 2020, at 10:46 AM, David H Kirshner > wrote: Martin, The scenario you sketched out is what I?d thought would/could happen, but the epidemiologists don?t ever talk about eradicating the virus, they just talk about slowing the spread so as not to overwhelm health care facilities. Eventually, everyone who can get it will get it. So a generation of older and weaker people will be adversely affected, many dying. It?s only in the next generation when most people have gotten it young that it will fade into the background, like the common cold. David From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > On Behalf Of Martin Packer Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 7:42 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? Julian, If no efforts are made to contain a virus it will move through a population in a single wave, infecting many people and then disappearing as no more potential hosts are available. If efforts to contain it ? lockdown ? are adequate there will be a single much smaller wave, followed again by elimination as hosts are not available. If containment is not effective ? if people don?t isolate sufficiently ? there may be a second wave when the containment is reduced. Or the first wave may not be controlled. As you say, each country is responding differently. Australia seems close to eliminating the virus after a single wave. The US and UK are somewhere between starting a second wave and still being in a poorly controlled first wave. Colombia seems to be still moving up its first wave. The behavior of a virus can be modeled, but only on the basis of assumptions about how people are going to behave. Since we cannot predict this behavior, we cannot even predict how the virus will or will not spread, let alone the political, economic and social consequences. To say this is not to be pessimistic; pessimism would be predicting a dire outcome. Rather, it highlights that the outcome lies in all our hands. Martin On Apr 25, 2020, at 1:43 AM, Julian Williams > wrote: Andy/Greg Each nation state appears to be ?playing? the pandemic in different ways (eg China, Italy, Australia, NZ, Sweden, UK, USA,? check out attached report which comes from https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://pandemic.internationalsos.com/2019-ncov__;!!Mih3wA!WvgOn-uXjvXtDy74TSuzRGj6qccOKwyYXrHkdc4KVLb5AUgCxewl0HNmT_xQGX-WlixFww$ I get one of these reports every few days) while sometimes looking to other countries to see how their numbers are growing/falling (and mostly making a damn poor job of it). Before this all got going, the scientists already had a pretty good idea how a pandemic works, and even what needed to be done to prepare for it: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/revealed-uk-ministers-were-warned-last-year-of-risks-of-coronavirus-pandemic__;!!Mih3wA!WvgOn-uXjvXtDy74TSuzRGj6qccOKwyYXrHkdc4KVLb5AUgCxewl0HNmT_xQGX9qyYrFxw$ And now we know a bit more than we did then. There is a prediction/warning there about a number of pandemic waves? In the second ?wave?, we ? the world subject-in-formation may have learnt more, maybe there will be fewer deaths? Maybe we will rescue WHO, maybe not (I won?t predict). But maybe the science community will be paying serious attention, and especially to its duty to the ?public good?. But there are some contradictory signs. In my own university we seem to be about to enter a new austerity, (implemented from the top by a failing leadership, led by a true academic, bio scientist no less!) What is clear is that the ?public? and its social movements are key to forcing each government to act, and that in almost all cases our leaders and rulers have followed along reluctantly ? even while the science and the pandemic plan was there. In the third and subsequent waves? I agree it?s not predictable: the outcomes will depend entirely on all of ?us?. And in the next ?big one?, the climate collapse? Maybe all this pandemic ?play? will have helped prepare us, we maybe will learn how to build the institutions, policies etc for the world?s ?public good? in time. I still have hope. I use Vygotsky-Leontiev?s idea of ?play? as the leading activity of the pre-schooler, as I find it complements the notion of world perezhivanie ? yes, we are experiencing trauma and that drives activity to overcome, etc, but also in this play we are acting, reflecting, and always ? above all - imagining and re-imagining (modelling etc) our world future. Julian From: > on behalf of Andy Blunden > Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Date: Saturday, 25 April 2020 at 02:08 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? Greg, the word is polysemic, as Mike said, but I agree with Michael that perezhivaniya are essentially collective experiences. As I say in the article, that COVID will be experienced differently in different countries, by different classes and social groups is an important part of this process. It does not detract it from its being a single experience. Huw, a "world subject" is emergent at this moment. It is implicit or "in-itself" but I look forward to the appearance of such a world subject, though who know how long and through what traumas we will pass before it is an actuality. Like WW2, the COVID pandemic part of its birth process. * https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/seminars/perezhivanie.htm__;!!Mih3wA!WvgOn-uXjvXtDy74TSuzRGj6qccOKwyYXrHkdc4KVLb5AUgCxewl0HNmT_xQGX9D_WSlOw$ , Notes, links, excerpts, 2009 * https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Blunden_article*response.pdf__;Kw!!Mih3wA!WvgOn-uXjvXtDy74TSuzRGj6qccOKwyYXrHkdc4KVLb5AUgCxewl0HNmT_xQGX8x-J5Lsg$ , MCA article 2016 * https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Coronavirus-pandemic.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!WvgOn-uXjvXtDy74TSuzRGj6qccOKwyYXrHkdc4KVLb5AUgCxewl0HNmT_xQGX-VGj1E7g$ Andy ________________________________ Andy Blunden Hegel for Social Movements Home Page On 25/04/2020 4:01 am, Greg Thompson wrote: I'm wondering about Andy's suggestion that covid-19 is a (or maybe "is creating a"?) world perezhivanie. That seems a really rich suggestion but I'm not sure how many of us on the list really understand what he means by this. Andy tends to just tell me to go read more and so I'm wondering if someone else might be willing to take a stab at explaining what he might mean. Also, as a critical intervention, I am wondering whether covid-19 is the "same" for everyone. We have folks in the U.S. who think it is basically just a typical flu that has been turned into a political tool to attack the current president. Or does that not matter for perezhivanie? (and just to be clear, my question is not whether or not this is true or right or beautiful to think this way; my question is whether or not this is how people are actually experiencing the world since I assume that this is what perezhivanie is supposed to be "getting at". Or am I misunderstanding perezhivanie?) So is there really a shared perezhivanie here? (Is The Problem of Age the place to look for answers?) But if no one wants to take this up (perhaps too much ink has been spilt over perezhivanie?), that's fine too. Cheers, greg -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!WvgOn-uXjvXtDy74TSuzRGj6qccOKwyYXrHkdc4KVLb5AUgCxewl0HNmT_xQGX-ZZSxX8w$ https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!WvgOn-uXjvXtDy74TSuzRGj6qccOKwyYXrHkdc4KVLb5AUgCxewl0HNmT_xQGX90yZAKlA$ -- the creation of utopias ? and their exhaustive criticism ? is the proper and distinctive method of sociology. H.G.Wells --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200427/76107d5f/attachment.html From VanDerRiet@ukzn.ac.za Mon Apr 27 03:53:57 2020 From: VanDerRiet@ukzn.ac.za (Mary van der Riet) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 10:53:57 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? 'What is to be done?' In-Reply-To: References: <7f661750-350f-9e76-d6b3-1598132af583@marxists.org> <1056380D-069C-40AE-934F-EA2A1212ACDB@manchester.ac.uk> <0E64BF76-A158-453E-B233-64D5E00625FA@cantab.net> <8DD6C766-811B-4B08-8B10-6ECA676FAA50@cantab.net> <04B33A84-A10E-4E3E-B7D4-358E9DD62EF6@manchester.ac.uk> , Message-ID: Thanks for the rich discussion about whether we need governments in order to change behaviour, and Mike's question of 'what is to be done?' Well, governments have tried to change cognitive frames (conceptual frameworks about germs, infection, etc), and increase 'knowledge', which are meant to mediate a different kind of individual activity (wash your hands for 20 seconds, cough into your elbow, seek out testing if you think you might be positive, isolate yourself etc). I assume these are calling on what someone referred to as encouraging people to 'make the sensible choice', or nudge individual actions. In addition, and possibly because people don't respond, or don't understand, or don't want to change, other rules, laws, etc have been developed: Mandating social distancing, the wearing of masks, closing schools, restricting funerals, quarantining those who test positive have already changed individual behaviour by making some things possible and other things not (just as when people do not obey a speed limit you create a condition on the road like a speed hump which makes the action of speeding less likely; or you restrict smoking to certain spaces) Some of these regulations have the effect of changing behaviour when an individual does not want to or cannot (as in an addiction - the regulation of smoking spaces has in SA lead to fewer people smoking). Billboards about HIV were less effective in changing behaviour - they changed knowledge, but not behaviour. Knowledge/awareness did not lead to a significant change in behaviour. This is partly because actions within sexual relationships, are so dependent on other things such as who has more power, or say, in a relationship (gender norms), goals and desires of the activity (young people prioritising status and power through sexual prowess). All of these things seem to be very irrational, and not the 'sensible choice'. Young people stay in relationships (in which they have no power to protect themselves from HIV) because somehow it is more important to be in a relationship. Very confusing for researchers, and part of the reason why we still have such an issue with HIV. We cant regulate the having of sex, we can only make available the means for protection, free condoms in as many places as possible. This increases the likelihood of 'protected' sex. But we also need to know a lot about the activity - if sex happens multiple times, one condom is not enough; if the clinic staff look askance at you for taking a condom, you will take fewer; We can't completely regulate people's contact with each other, but we can flood the environment with tools (hand santisers, masks, wash basins) to make the health safety actions more possible. To come to the point of 'trust' in a government. I agree that it needs to be there. Ironically today is the 26th anniversary of South Africa's 'freedom' - the day of our first democratic and racially inclusive elections. Over these last years our level of trust in the government has been challenged (with corruption, poor service delivery, political infighting). But today we are more proud of our current president than ever. I've just seen a youtube take on a comparison between Pres Ramaphosa and Pres Trump. Its funny, but also sad. Today we have less internal South African politicking that every before. Our president has been decisive and shown leadership, including R500billion relief package for small businesses and poor people. That is a huge relief. We are perhaps in the process of what Anne-Nelly referred as necessary for building trust: 'Trust has to be constructed, gained, felt, experienced, informed, verified, questioned,shared, etc.' We seem to have a government now who desires to re-orientate itself (embark on 'radical economic transformation', enabling it to protect the poor, provide services (water, housing, employment), and, I really hope Anne Nelly, that this does come to be . There is a movement to local support of the poor (in the sense of financial contributions, or food donations), but how does this become institutionalised (beyond the immediate crisis context)? It is hard to see how individual agency can change if immediate socio-economic conditions make one vulnerable. And, not everybody experiences the government as benevolent. We have had evictions of 'squatters' from land (during the lockdown), we have had police and army brutality during the enforcement of lockdown regulations. We have also had an increase in poverty and the numbers of people living below the breadline. This is really distressing. And we have not even experienced the worse. 168 643 tested, 4546 positive cases, 87 recorded deaths. btw Andy, my mother was a doctor in the time of the polio epidemic in SA and remembers the closure of swimming pools; and the vaccination programmes in schools. The social memory which seems to be being called on now is that related to SARS, H1N1 and Ebola. I suppose we have learnt something from that, but was that experience mostly localised to specific contexts, its not a dominant memory here. Mary Mary van der Riet (Phd), Associate Professor Discipline of Psychology, School of Applied Human Sciences, College of Humanities, University of KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa email: vanderriet@ukzn.ac.za tel: +27 33 260 6163 ________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of mike cole Sent: Sunday, 26 April 2020 19:25 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? Tough questions, Mary. Following upon Derek's note on my screen, it seemed that the evidence for an empirical evidence concerning your question about the motives of individual members of society when faced with visible versus invisible. Does it require a government to coerce people who fail "to get it?" I think in arguing that "The origin of actions/activity do/does not reside in cognition," emotions are the origin and in the case of a pandemic fear seems to be a sure bet. But in converting from, say, terror to reasoned action, cognition is certainly becomes involved, where cognition is understood to be "distributed, embodied, saturated with meanings and senses, etc." It seems that the challenge is to make the invisible, visible. Its the same principle as in discussions, of say, of the way that racism in American classrooms works in the activity as an invisible contributor to the structure of the ongoing flow of events. Several generations of ethnographers and novelists and film makers have in fact been able to make that process visible -- visible, and thus a possible object of activity to those are able to re-organize their ideologically given understand of their experience and the way the world works. A government, or some sort of "governmentality," seems essential. It seems we see several distinct models when we look at how visibility is accomplished in a wide variety of current world circumstances, as reporting from several parts of the world here testify. Thanks to all of those who have taken time to describe the local circumstances. The question of "what action" (the very "what is to be done") that the Russians contemplated a century ago. Its the question that Anne-Nelly invited people to answer on behalf of Latour. Its a question I am asking myself, as the hour glass runs out and others have been discussing. I am no more certain than Anne-Nelly. And the hour glass could be sneezed upon any day now. mike On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 1:42 AM Mary van der Riet > wrote: I am struck in all of these conversations of the similarities with the HIV pandemic . We face these issues daily in the Southern African region (the highest prevalence of HIV globally). We say 'it depends on us', and revert to information sharing, and dependence on cognitive shifts and adaptations (all of the old behaviour change theories Theory of Reasoned Action; Health Belief Models)- see the risk, know what the risk means, know how to prevent it, and make changes to your behaviour in order to protect yourself. All of this is relevant for the COVID 10 pandemic, and much of it is not working. We as educated adults see the risk, know the risk, know how to protect ourselves (to the degree that scientists have informed us, and to the degree that science knows about the transmission) and yet it is really hard to change behaviour, to 'believe' that this is real And what does it mean for action? It means people don't social distance, don't use masks, see themselves as infallible etc. The origin of actions/activity do/does not reside in cognition...we know that from Activity theory, CHAT, etc. In the HIV pandemic in SA, there are still people who believe that you are fine if you cant see the symptoms (loss of weight, skin conditions, diarrohea - a fallacy by the way). A taxi driver said he would rather have HIV than Covid 19 because he could 'see' that someone was or was not HIV positive, but he is scared of Covid 19 because he cant 'see' it. Same discourse, same consequences. Then there was a period in SA where HIV public health messaging was about showing coffins, and symbols of death to try to get people to take in the seriousness of it all. Do we find this now? are those more directly infected (someone in their family, seeing someone ill with Covid 19 - doctors, nurses)- more convinced about the nature of the problem). Perhaps not for some in the USA protesting this viral hoax. So, what changes behaviour? The question is the same - what is the motive that drives the health protection actions of individuals? The origin of behaviour is not individual cognition. Uganda was seen to have been so effective in reducing HIV incidence because it made HIV a notifiable disease. Is this draconian? Does it infringe on individual rights? [In SA we have not done that, we have a constitutional right to control and manage and keep private our HIV status; AND we have huge levels of stigma (extreme fear of going for an HIV test in a university context because people will 'see you there, and think you are HIV positive). At the same time, young women at universities are afraid of unplanned pregnancies because they are visible, (unlike HIV), and evidence of sexual activity. So, contradictions and tensions in practices around sexual activity in the context of 'risk' or vulnerability to HIV.] Governments who can instruct people how to behave (ie take the responsibility away from the individual) seem to have had more control over the spread of the virus (SA during lockdown). So a rule or a law which governs individual actions (and creating the context for an action, prescribing what might be 'afforded' in the context) might be more effective that the individual 'making a decision' If condom use amongst young people is not a 'norm' it is difficult for one person to engage with condom use. Do we need governments to set up the conditions for the actions of individuals? Mary Mary van der Riet (Phd), Associate Professor Discipline of Psychology, School of Applied Human Sciences, College of Humanities, University of KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa email: vanderriet@ukzn.ac.za tel: +27 33 260 6163 ________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Julian Williams > Sent: Saturday, 25 April 2020 20:24 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? Martin, David Yes a lot depends... on ?us?. Check out the report, where you can see how much was ?predicted? years ago, even the possible public outrage ensuing government failures ; but yes my decisive, main point was not to predict, but to ACT. David I agree the bioscience issues are important, but bear in mind that our sloppy public health systems globally ( eg with wild life markets) expose humanity to many new viruses ( they estimate 2-4 new viruses per year) - our relations and actions shape this threat. Then also not just immediately, but imaginatively, to play with models (and not just those reductive epidemiologists? ?predictions?) .. but to imagineer a world subject that can act in future to tackle essentially GLOBAL challenges. Best wishes Julian On 25 Apr 2020, at 18:10, Martin Packer > wrote: That?s the problem with predicting - it all depends! :) Yes, coronavirus may become endemic, like flu or the common cold or something worse. Or a vaccine may be developed. Or if 4 in 5 are somehow naturally resistant, and if most of the 1 in 5 who become infected develop immunity as a result, the incidence of covid could drop dramatically. Or we could all drink disinfectant. Martin On Apr 25, 2020, at 11:49 AM, David H Kirshner > wrote: It is possible that the virus is eradicated, like SARS was, but that?s increasingly unlikely. More likely is that ?2019-nCoV joins the four coronaviruses now circulating in people. ?I can imagine a scenario where this becomes a fifth endemic human coronavirus,? said Stephen Morse of Columbia University?s Mailman School of Public Health, an epidemiologist and expert on emerging infectious diseases.? https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.statnews.com/2020/02/04/two-scenarios-if-new-coronavirus-isnt-contained/__;!!Mih3wA!UFsZcFCaWdV0trA0hP7V0G--ECgjtBkfZbVjLgLLFP3Ge6jw9Cdqz238oQMj1O3z1oXPnA$ The fact that such a large proportion of people who contract the virus are asymptomatic make this one very hard to contain. Of course, the possibility of a vaccine would greatly reduce its human toll. David From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > On Behalf Of Martin Packer Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 11:14 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? David, There is talk about the possible eradication of the virus in Australia and New Zealand, from what I have read. Eradication is difficult when no one has resistance, but not impossible. Other virus infections have been eradicated, as far as one can tell, such as smallpox. In Wuhan, where the infections started, which is a city of around 11 million people, less that 70,000 cases were reported. Even if that is vastly underreported by a factor of 10 it is less than 10%. And studies in California suggest that only 1 in 5 have been infected, of whom 60% have not experienced any symptoms. Only around 5% need hospitalization. Martin On Apr 25, 2020, at 10:46 AM, David H Kirshner > wrote: Martin, The scenario you sketched out is what I?d thought would/could happen, but the epidemiologists don?t ever talk about eradicating the virus, they just talk about slowing the spread so as not to overwhelm health care facilities. Eventually, everyone who can get it will get it. So a generation of older and weaker people will be adversely affected, many dying. It?s only in the next generation when most people have gotten it young that it will fade into the background, like the common cold. David From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > On Behalf Of Martin Packer Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 7:42 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? Julian, If no efforts are made to contain a virus it will move through a population in a single wave, infecting many people and then disappearing as no more potential hosts are available. If efforts to contain it ? lockdown ? are adequate there will be a single much smaller wave, followed again by elimination as hosts are not available. If containment is not effective ? if people don?t isolate sufficiently ? there may be a second wave when the containment is reduced. Or the first wave may not be controlled. As you say, each country is responding differently. Australia seems close to eliminating the virus after a single wave. The US and UK are somewhere between starting a second wave and still being in a poorly controlled first wave. Colombia seems to be still moving up its first wave. The behavior of a virus can be modeled, but only on the basis of assumptions about how people are going to behave. Since we cannot predict this behavior, we cannot even predict how the virus will or will not spread, let alone the political, economic and social consequences. To say this is not to be pessimistic; pessimism would be predicting a dire outcome. Rather, it highlights that the outcome lies in all our hands. Martin On Apr 25, 2020, at 1:43 AM, Julian Williams > wrote: Andy/Greg Each nation state appears to be ?playing? the pandemic in different ways (eg China, Italy, Australia, NZ, Sweden, UK, USA,? check out attached report which comes from https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://pandemic.internationalsos.com/2019-ncov__;!!Mih3wA!UFsZcFCaWdV0trA0hP7V0G--ECgjtBkfZbVjLgLLFP3Ge6jw9Cdqz238oQMj1O2QSX3htQ$ I get one of these reports every few days) while sometimes looking to other countries to see how their numbers are growing/falling (and mostly making a damn poor job of it). Before this all got going, the scientists already had a pretty good idea how a pandemic works, and even what needed to be done to prepare for it: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/revealed-uk-ministers-were-warned-last-year-of-risks-of-coronavirus-pandemic__;!!Mih3wA!UFsZcFCaWdV0trA0hP7V0G--ECgjtBkfZbVjLgLLFP3Ge6jw9Cdqz238oQMj1O2kO1j19w$ And now we know a bit more than we did then. There is a prediction/warning there about a number of pandemic waves? In the second ?wave?, we ? the world subject-in-formation may have learnt more, maybe there will be fewer deaths? Maybe we will rescue WHO, maybe not (I won?t predict). But maybe the science community will be paying serious attention, and especially to its duty to the ?public good?. But there are some contradictory signs. In my own university we seem to be about to enter a new austerity, (implemented from the top by a failing leadership, led by a true academic, bio scientist no less!) What is clear is that the ?public? and its social movements are key to forcing each government to act, and that in almost all cases our leaders and rulers have followed along reluctantly ? even while the science and the pandemic plan was there. In the third and subsequent waves? I agree it?s not predictable: the outcomes will depend entirely on all of ?us?. And in the next ?big one?, the climate collapse? Maybe all this pandemic ?play? will have helped prepare us, we maybe will learn how to build the institutions, policies etc for the world?s ?public good? in time. I still have hope. I use Vygotsky-Leontiev?s idea of ?play? as the leading activity of the pre-schooler, as I find it complements the notion of world perezhivanie ? yes, we are experiencing trauma and that drives activity to overcome, etc, but also in this play we are acting, reflecting, and always ? above all - imagining and re-imagining (modelling etc) our world future. Julian From: > on behalf of Andy Blunden > Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Date: Saturday, 25 April 2020 at 02:08 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? Greg, the word is polysemic, as Mike said, but I agree with Michael that perezhivaniya are essentially collective experiences. As I say in the article, that COVID will be experienced differently in different countries, by different classes and social groups is an important part of this process. It does not detract it from its being a single experience. Huw, a "world subject" is emergent at this moment. It is implicit or "in-itself" but I look forward to the appearance of such a world subject, though who know how long and through what traumas we will pass before it is an actuality. Like WW2, the COVID pandemic part of its birth process. * https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/seminars/perezhivanie.htm__;!!Mih3wA!UFsZcFCaWdV0trA0hP7V0G--ECgjtBkfZbVjLgLLFP3Ge6jw9Cdqz238oQMj1O20f7PMuw$ , Notes, links, excerpts, 2009 * https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Blunden_article*response.pdf__;Kw!!Mih3wA!UFsZcFCaWdV0trA0hP7V0G--ECgjtBkfZbVjLgLLFP3Ge6jw9Cdqz238oQMj1O32P1vAKQ$ , MCA article 2016 * https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Coronavirus-pandemic.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!UFsZcFCaWdV0trA0hP7V0G--ECgjtBkfZbVjLgLLFP3Ge6jw9Cdqz238oQMj1O0nWKLylg$ Andy ________________________________ Andy Blunden Hegel for Social Movements Home Page On 25/04/2020 4:01 am, Greg Thompson wrote: I'm wondering about Andy's suggestion that covid-19 is a (or maybe "is creating a"?) world perezhivanie. That seems a really rich suggestion but I'm not sure how many of us on the list really understand what he means by this. Andy tends to just tell me to go read more and so I'm wondering if someone else might be willing to take a stab at explaining what he might mean. Also, as a critical intervention, I am wondering whether covid-19 is the "same" for everyone. We have folks in the U.S. who think it is basically just a typical flu that has been turned into a political tool to attack the current president. Or does that not matter for perezhivanie? (and just to be clear, my question is not whether or not this is true or right or beautiful to think this way; my question is whether or not this is how people are actually experiencing the world since I assume that this is what perezhivanie is supposed to be "getting at". Or am I misunderstanding perezhivanie?) So is there really a shared perezhivanie here? (Is The Problem of Age the place to look for answers?) But if no one wants to take this up (perhaps too much ink has been spilt over perezhivanie?), that's fine too. Cheers, greg -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!UFsZcFCaWdV0trA0hP7V0G--ECgjtBkfZbVjLgLLFP3Ge6jw9Cdqz238oQMj1O2DL2iwvA$ https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!UFsZcFCaWdV0trA0hP7V0G--ECgjtBkfZbVjLgLLFP3Ge6jw9Cdqz238oQMj1O2bgqvV3A$ -- the creation of utopias ? and their exhaustive criticism ? is the proper and distinctive method of sociology. H.G.Wells --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200427/c6bf050a/attachment.html From VanDerRiet@ukzn.ac.za Mon Apr 27 03:54:58 2020 From: VanDerRiet@ukzn.ac.za (Mary van der Riet) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 10:54:58 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? 'What is to be done?' In-Reply-To: References: <7f661750-350f-9e76-d6b3-1598132af583@marxists.org> <1056380D-069C-40AE-934F-EA2A1212ACDB@manchester.ac.uk> <0E64BF76-A158-453E-B233-64D5E00625FA@cantab.net> <8DD6C766-811B-4B08-8B10-6ECA676FAA50@cantab.net> <04B33A84-A10E-4E3E-B7D4-358E9DD62EF6@manchester.ac.uk> , , Message-ID: with video link Thanks for the rich discussion about whether we need governments in order to change behaviour, and Mike's question of 'what is to be done?' Well, governments have tried to change cognitive frames (conceptual frameworks about germs, infection, etc), and increase 'knowledge', which are meant to mediate a different kind of individual activity (wash your hands for 20 seconds, cough into your elbow, seek out testing if you think you might be positive, isolate yourself etc). I assume these are calling on what someone referred to as encouraging people to 'make the sensible choice', or nudge individual actions. In addition, and possibly because people don't respond, or don't understand, or don't want to change, other rules, laws, etc have been developed: Mandating social distancing, the wearing of masks, closing schools, restricting funerals, quarantining those who test positive have already changed individual behaviour by making some things possible and other things not (just as when people do not obey a speed limit you create a condition on the road like a speed hump which makes the action of speeding less likely; or you restrict smoking to certain spaces) Some of these regulations have the effect of changing behaviour when an individual does not want to or cannot (as in an addiction - the regulation of smoking spaces has in SA lead to fewer people smoking). Billboards about HIV were less effective in changing behaviour - they changed knowledge, but not behaviour. Knowledge/awareness did not lead to a significant change in behaviour. This is partly because actions within sexual relationships, are so dependent on other things such as who has more power, or say, in a relationship (gender norms), goals and desires of the activity (young people prioritising status and power through sexual prowess). All of these things seem to be very irrational, and not the 'sensible choice'. Young people stay in relationships (in which they have no power to protect themselves from HIV) because somehow it is more important to be in a relationship. Very confusing for researchers, and part of the reason why we still have such an issue with HIV. We cant regulate the having of sex, we can only make available the means for protection, free condoms in as many places as possible. This increases the likelihood of 'protected' sex. But we also need to know a lot about the activity - if sex happens multiple times, one condom is not enough; if the clinic staff look askance at you for taking a condom, you will take fewer; We can't completely regulate people's contact with each other, but we can flood the environment with tools (hand santisers, masks, wash basins) to make the health safety actions more possible. To come to the point of 'trust' in a government. I agree that it needs to be there. Ironically today is the 26th anniversary of South Africa's 'freedom' - the day of our first democratic and racially inclusive elections. Over these last years our level of trust in the government has been challenged (with corruption, poor service delivery, political infighting). But today we are more proud of our current president than ever. I've just seen a youtube take on a comparison between Pres Ramaphosa and Pres Trump. Its funny, but also sad. see https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10156945028671283&id=592011282*sfnsn=scwspmo&extid=Y6ZaZdGMKYHflVK4&d=n&vh=i__;Pw!!Mih3wA!QbfsvdoVmc64Q-E-yhh_idLuuBIrccXELtxxYvGHCA0VqWfs-ZvpRfX6tXsWGKzAO0Prvg$ Today we have less internal South African politicking that every before. Our president has been decisive and shown leadership, including R500billion relief package for small businesses and poor people. That is a huge relief. We are perhaps in the process of what Anne-Nelly referred as necessary for building trust: 'Trust has to be constructed, gained, felt, experienced, informed, verified, questioned,shared, etc.' We seem to have a government now who desires to re-orientate itself (embark on 'radical economic transformation', enabling it to protect the poor, provide services (water, housing, employment), and, I really hope Anne Nelly, that this does come to be . There is a movement to local support of the poor (in the sense of financial contributions, or food donations), but how does this become institutionalised (beyond the immediate crisis context)? It is hard to see how individual agency can change if immediate socio-economic conditions make one vulnerable. And, not everybody experiences the government as benevolent. We have had evictions of 'squatters' from land (during the lockdown), we have had police and army brutality during the enforcement of lockdown regulations. We have also had an increase in poverty and the numbers of people living below the breadline. This is really distressing. And we have not even experienced the worse. 168 643 tested, 4546 positive cases, 87 recorded deaths. btw Andy, my mother was a doctor in the time of the polio epidemic in SA and remembers the closure of swimming pools; and the vaccination programmes in schools. The social memory which seems to be being called on now is that related to SARS, H1N1 and Ebola. I suppose we have learnt something from that, but was that experience mostly localised to specific contexts, its not a dominant memory here. Mary Mary van der Riet (Phd), Associate Professor Discipline of Psychology, School of Applied Human Sciences, College of Humanities, University of KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa email: vanderriet@ukzn.ac.za tel: +27 33 260 6163 ________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of mike cole Sent: Sunday, 26 April 2020 19:25 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? Tough questions, Mary. Following upon Derek's note on my screen, it seemed that the evidence for an empirical evidence concerning your question about the motives of individual members of society when faced with visible versus invisible. Does it require a government to coerce people who fail "to get it?" I think in arguing that "The origin of actions/activity do/does not reside in cognition," emotions are the origin and in the case of a pandemic fear seems to be a sure bet. But in converting from, say, terror to reasoned action, cognition is certainly becomes involved, where cognition is understood to be "distributed, embodied, saturated with meanings and senses, etc." It seems that the challenge is to make the invisible, visible. Its the same principle as in discussions, of say, of the way that racism in American classrooms works in the activity as an invisible contributor to the structure of the ongoing flow of events. Several generations of ethnographers and novelists and film makers have in fact been able to make that process visible -- visible, and thus a possible object of activity to those are able to re-organize their ideologically given understand of their experience and the way the world works. A government, or some sort of "governmentality," seems essential. It seems we see several distinct models when we look at how visibility is accomplished in a wide variety of current world circumstances, as reporting from several parts of the world here testify. Thanks to all of those who have taken time to describe the local circumstances. The question of "what action" (the very "what is to be done") that the Russians contemplated a century ago. Its the question that Anne-Nelly invited people to answer on behalf of Latour. Its a question I am asking myself, as the hour glass runs out and others have been discussing. I am no more certain than Anne-Nelly. And the hour glass could be sneezed upon any day now. mike On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 1:42 AM Mary van der Riet > wrote: I am struck in all of these conversations of the similarities with the HIV pandemic . We face these issues daily in the Southern African region (the highest prevalence of HIV globally). We say 'it depends on us', and revert to information sharing, and dependence on cognitive shifts and adaptations (all of the old behaviour change theories Theory of Reasoned Action; Health Belief Models)- see the risk, know what the risk means, know how to prevent it, and make changes to your behaviour in order to protect yourself. All of this is relevant for the COVID 10 pandemic, and much of it is not working. We as educated adults see the risk, know the risk, know how to protect ourselves (to the degree that scientists have informed us, and to the degree that science knows about the transmission) and yet it is really hard to change behaviour, to 'believe' that this is real And what does it mean for action? It means people don't social distance, don't use masks, see themselves as infallible etc. The origin of actions/activity do/does not reside in cognition...we know that from Activity theory, CHAT, etc. In the HIV pandemic in SA, there are still people who believe that you are fine if you cant see the symptoms (loss of weight, skin conditions, diarrohea - a fallacy by the way). A taxi driver said he would rather have HIV than Covid 19 because he could 'see' that someone was or was not HIV positive, but he is scared of Covid 19 because he cant 'see' it. Same discourse, same consequences. Then there was a period in SA where HIV public health messaging was about showing coffins, and symbols of death to try to get people to take in the seriousness of it all. Do we find this now? are those more directly infected (someone in their family, seeing someone ill with Covid 19 - doctors, nurses)- more convinced about the nature of the problem). Perhaps not for some in the USA protesting this viral hoax. So, what changes behaviour? The question is the same - what is the motive that drives the health protection actions of individuals? The origin of behaviour is not individual cognition. Uganda was seen to have been so effective in reducing HIV incidence because it made HIV a notifiable disease. Is this draconian? Does it infringe on individual rights? [In SA we have not done that, we have a constitutional right to control and manage and keep private our HIV status; AND we have huge levels of stigma (extreme fear of going for an HIV test in a university context because people will 'see you there, and think you are HIV positive). At the same time, young women at universities are afraid of unplanned pregnancies because they are visible, (unlike HIV), and evidence of sexual activity. So, contradictions and tensions in practices around sexual activity in the context of 'risk' or vulnerability to HIV.] Governments who can instruct people how to behave (ie take the responsibility away from the individual) seem to have had more control over the spread of the virus (SA during lockdown). So a rule or a law which governs individual actions (and creating the context for an action, prescribing what might be 'afforded' in the context) might be more effective that the individual 'making a decision' If condom use amongst young people is not a 'norm' it is difficult for one person to engage with condom use. Do we need governments to set up the conditions for the actions of individuals? Mary Mary van der Riet (Phd), Associate Professor Discipline of Psychology, School of Applied Human Sciences, College of Humanities, University of KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa email: vanderriet@ukzn.ac.za tel: +27 33 260 6163 ________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Julian Williams > Sent: Saturday, 25 April 2020 20:24 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? Martin, David Yes a lot depends... on ?us?. Check out the report, where you can see how much was ?predicted? years ago, even the possible public outrage ensuing government failures ; but yes my decisive, main point was not to predict, but to ACT. David I agree the bioscience issues are important, but bear in mind that our sloppy public health systems globally ( eg with wild life markets) expose humanity to many new viruses ( they estimate 2-4 new viruses per year) - our relations and actions shape this threat. Then also not just immediately, but imaginatively, to play with models (and not just those reductive epidemiologists? ?predictions?) .. but to imagineer a world subject that can act in future to tackle essentially GLOBAL challenges. Best wishes Julian On 25 Apr 2020, at 18:10, Martin Packer > wrote: That?s the problem with predicting - it all depends! :) Yes, coronavirus may become endemic, like flu or the common cold or something worse. Or a vaccine may be developed. Or if 4 in 5 are somehow naturally resistant, and if most of the 1 in 5 who become infected develop immunity as a result, the incidence of covid could drop dramatically. Or we could all drink disinfectant. Martin On Apr 25, 2020, at 11:49 AM, David H Kirshner > wrote: It is possible that the virus is eradicated, like SARS was, but that?s increasingly unlikely. More likely is that ?2019-nCoV joins the four coronaviruses now circulating in people. ?I can imagine a scenario where this becomes a fifth endemic human coronavirus,? said Stephen Morse of Columbia University?s Mailman School of Public Health, an epidemiologist and expert on emerging infectious diseases.? https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.statnews.com/2020/02/04/two-scenarios-if-new-coronavirus-isnt-contained/__;!!Mih3wA!QbfsvdoVmc64Q-E-yhh_idLuuBIrccXELtxxYvGHCA0VqWfs-ZvpRfX6tXsWGKyefRpbIw$ The fact that such a large proportion of people who contract the virus are asymptomatic make this one very hard to contain. Of course, the possibility of a vaccine would greatly reduce its human toll. David From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > On Behalf Of Martin Packer Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 11:14 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? David, There is talk about the possible eradication of the virus in Australia and New Zealand, from what I have read. Eradication is difficult when no one has resistance, but not impossible. Other virus infections have been eradicated, as far as one can tell, such as smallpox. In Wuhan, where the infections started, which is a city of around 11 million people, less that 70,000 cases were reported. Even if that is vastly underreported by a factor of 10 it is less than 10%. And studies in California suggest that only 1 in 5 have been infected, of whom 60% have not experienced any symptoms. Only around 5% need hospitalization. Martin On Apr 25, 2020, at 10:46 AM, David H Kirshner > wrote: Martin, The scenario you sketched out is what I?d thought would/could happen, but the epidemiologists don?t ever talk about eradicating the virus, they just talk about slowing the spread so as not to overwhelm health care facilities. Eventually, everyone who can get it will get it. So a generation of older and weaker people will be adversely affected, many dying. It?s only in the next generation when most people have gotten it young that it will fade into the background, like the common cold. David From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > On Behalf Of Martin Packer Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 7:42 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? Julian, If no efforts are made to contain a virus it will move through a population in a single wave, infecting many people and then disappearing as no more potential hosts are available. If efforts to contain it ? lockdown ? are adequate there will be a single much smaller wave, followed again by elimination as hosts are not available. If containment is not effective ? if people don?t isolate sufficiently ? there may be a second wave when the containment is reduced. Or the first wave may not be controlled. As you say, each country is responding differently. Australia seems close to eliminating the virus after a single wave. The US and UK are somewhere between starting a second wave and still being in a poorly controlled first wave. Colombia seems to be still moving up its first wave. The behavior of a virus can be modeled, but only on the basis of assumptions about how people are going to behave. Since we cannot predict this behavior, we cannot even predict how the virus will or will not spread, let alone the political, economic and social consequences. To say this is not to be pessimistic; pessimism would be predicting a dire outcome. Rather, it highlights that the outcome lies in all our hands. Martin On Apr 25, 2020, at 1:43 AM, Julian Williams > wrote: Andy/Greg Each nation state appears to be ?playing? the pandemic in different ways (eg China, Italy, Australia, NZ, Sweden, UK, USA,? check out attached report which comes from https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://pandemic.internationalsos.com/2019-ncov__;!!Mih3wA!QbfsvdoVmc64Q-E-yhh_idLuuBIrccXELtxxYvGHCA0VqWfs-ZvpRfX6tXsWGKwlqsegoA$ I get one of these reports every few days) while sometimes looking to other countries to see how their numbers are growing/falling (and mostly making a damn poor job of it). Before this all got going, the scientists already had a pretty good idea how a pandemic works, and even what needed to be done to prepare for it: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/revealed-uk-ministers-were-warned-last-year-of-risks-of-coronavirus-pandemic__;!!Mih3wA!QbfsvdoVmc64Q-E-yhh_idLuuBIrccXELtxxYvGHCA0VqWfs-ZvpRfX6tXsWGKxmEtgI7A$ And now we know a bit more than we did then. There is a prediction/warning there about a number of pandemic waves? In the second ?wave?, we ? the world subject-in-formation may have learnt more, maybe there will be fewer deaths? Maybe we will rescue WHO, maybe not (I won?t predict). But maybe the science community will be paying serious attention, and especially to its duty to the ?public good?. But there are some contradictory signs. In my own university we seem to be about to enter a new austerity, (implemented from the top by a failing leadership, led by a true academic, bio scientist no less!) What is clear is that the ?public? and its social movements are key to forcing each government to act, and that in almost all cases our leaders and rulers have followed along reluctantly ? even while the science and the pandemic plan was there. In the third and subsequent waves? I agree it?s not predictable: the outcomes will depend entirely on all of ?us?. And in the next ?big one?, the climate collapse? Maybe all this pandemic ?play? will have helped prepare us, we maybe will learn how to build the institutions, policies etc for the world?s ?public good? in time. I still have hope. I use Vygotsky-Leontiev?s idea of ?play? as the leading activity of the pre-schooler, as I find it complements the notion of world perezhivanie ? yes, we are experiencing trauma and that drives activity to overcome, etc, but also in this play we are acting, reflecting, and always ? above all - imagining and re-imagining (modelling etc) our world future. Julian From: > on behalf of Andy Blunden > Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Date: Saturday, 25 April 2020 at 02:08 To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? Greg, the word is polysemic, as Mike said, but I agree with Michael that perezhivaniya are essentially collective experiences. As I say in the article, that COVID will be experienced differently in different countries, by different classes and social groups is an important part of this process. It does not detract it from its being a single experience. Huw, a "world subject" is emergent at this moment. It is implicit or "in-itself" but I look forward to the appearance of such a world subject, though who know how long and through what traumas we will pass before it is an actuality. Like WW2, the COVID pandemic part of its birth process. * https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/seminars/perezhivanie.htm__;!!Mih3wA!QbfsvdoVmc64Q-E-yhh_idLuuBIrccXELtxxYvGHCA0VqWfs-ZvpRfX6tXsWGKzdLiWDLg$ , Notes, links, excerpts, 2009 * https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Blunden_article*response.pdf__;Kw!!Mih3wA!QbfsvdoVmc64Q-E-yhh_idLuuBIrccXELtxxYvGHCA0VqWfs-ZvpRfX6tXsWGKwTN0gHug$ , MCA article 2016 * https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Coronavirus-pandemic.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!QbfsvdoVmc64Q-E-yhh_idLuuBIrccXELtxxYvGHCA0VqWfs-ZvpRfX6tXsWGKz5KwI1uA$ Andy ________________________________ Andy Blunden Hegel for Social Movements Home Page On 25/04/2020 4:01 am, Greg Thompson wrote: I'm wondering about Andy's suggestion that covid-19 is a (or maybe "is creating a"?) world perezhivanie. That seems a really rich suggestion but I'm not sure how many of us on the list really understand what he means by this. Andy tends to just tell me to go read more and so I'm wondering if someone else might be willing to take a stab at explaining what he might mean. Also, as a critical intervention, I am wondering whether covid-19 is the "same" for everyone. We have folks in the U.S. who think it is basically just a typical flu that has been turned into a political tool to attack the current president. Or does that not matter for perezhivanie? (and just to be clear, my question is not whether or not this is true or right or beautiful to think this way; my question is whether or not this is how people are actually experiencing the world since I assume that this is what perezhivanie is supposed to be "getting at". Or am I misunderstanding perezhivanie?) So is there really a shared perezhivanie here? (Is The Problem of Age the place to look for answers?) But if no one wants to take this up (perhaps too much ink has been spilt over perezhivanie?), that's fine too. Cheers, greg -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!QbfsvdoVmc64Q-E-yhh_idLuuBIrccXELtxxYvGHCA0VqWfs-ZvpRfX6tXsWGKyyNSIw5g$ https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!QbfsvdoVmc64Q-E-yhh_idLuuBIrccXELtxxYvGHCA0VqWfs-ZvpRfX6tXsWGKwS2MJW4Q$ -- the creation of utopias ? and their exhaustive criticism ? is the proper and distinctive method of sociology. H.G.Wells --------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200427/3456c514/attachment.html From ulvi.icil@gmail.com Mon Apr 27 05:16:15 2020 From: ulvi.icil@gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?VWx2aSDEsMOnaWw=?=) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 15:16:15 +0300 Subject: [Xmca-l] What you look for Message-ID: Dear Mike, (and other friends if you can help please) We could not succeed in finding who is the person in front of the Moscow Cinema in 60s. Can you please help us? In front of Russia Cinema is Alexander Sergeyevich Pushkin. The red brick building, first I was thinking it should be Lenin Mausoleum but then I thought that it is not in brick but Kremlin is in brick and N?z?m knows very well and mentions in another poem the mausoleum in granite. So the building should be Kremlin and mausoleum. But the one in front of Moscow Cinema. I think I carry you now to those moments with dear Alexander Romanovich. in the 60s. Thank you so much. Ulvi -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200427/0b0a29a9/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: WHAT YOU LOOK FOR.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 217909 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200427/0b0a29a9/attachment-0001.pdf -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ceux que tu recherches.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 14708 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200427/0b0a29a9/attachment-0001.bin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Arad?klar?n.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2485117 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200427/0b0a29a9/attachment-0001.jpg From ulvi.icil@gmail.com Mon Apr 27 06:29:49 2020 From: ulvi.icil@gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?VWx2aSDEsMOnaWw=?=) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 16:29:49 +0300 Subject: [Xmca-l] https://www.canceltherents.org/ Message-ID: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.canceltherents.org/__;!!Mih3wA!T18V594K0mKjJE7d3yaZBWBo7BvE4y8dFtt6B81QqhwOPz9ZC_fMDEagkGxcfHE22jwzeQ$ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200427/4fa992c2/attachment.html From mpacker@cantab.net Mon Apr 27 07:51:49 2020 From: mpacker@cantab.net (Martin Packer) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 09:51:49 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? In-Reply-To: References: <7f661750-350f-9e76-d6b3-1598132af583@marxists.org> <1056380D-069C-40AE-934F-EA2A1212ACDB@manchester.ac.uk> <0E64BF76-A158-453E-B233-64D5E00625FA@cantab.net> <8DD6C766-811B-4B08-8B10-6ECA676FAA50@cantab.net> <04B33A84-A10E-4E3E-B7D4-358E9DD62EF6@manchester.ac.uk> <018B6DB3-C8AD-4B69-A8F9-862E28EA787A@manchester.ac.uk> Message-ID: <3DDC5E5F-0AB2-4079-ABD7-E90D167752A7@cantab.net> Some further reflections on this seemingly alarming ?prediction?... This expert is asked how many people could be infected in 18 months in the US. His reply is ?probably 30-50%.? Based on what? The infection rate depends on the degree of contact among people. The death rate (claimed to be 1%) depends on the quality and quantity of health care that is available. Is the infection rate 50% in Australia? In new Zealand? Apparently not. Is 1.7 million a large number? Yes, but 350 million ? the population of the US ? is also a large number. And no one is suggesting that the virus could continue to kill 1.7 million every year! The figures stated in this interview are apparently estimates for 18 months. If 1.7 million die in 18 months, around a million would die in a year. (In fact the rate would not be linear, but for these rough estimates that?s not too important.) So covid could kill around 1 million each year for, what, two or three years? By then, infections would drop rapidly as immunity builds. According to the CDC, in the US there are annual deaths of 600,000 for cardiac disease and 600,000 for cancer. Every year! Those are large numbers too but most of us don?t give them much thought. So in ten years, covid could kill 3 million people, while ordinarily 12 million people would die of these two kinds of illness alone. We need to keep the numbers in perspective! Martin > On Apr 26, 2020, at 6:13 PM, Anthony Barra wrote: > > Very interesting, thanks Julian. > > Knowing now of your modelling expertise, the only thing you could do to irritate me would be to NOT take 2 minutes to evaluate the following prediction: > (source: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G19d6dsC5Xo__;!!Mih3wA!VlHTVscDYayNL2nnX5HQdye1JliAMaJvv3Fmw8edVx9FLrbymrV7XXSSW97hfQHPSYMRsw$ ) > A: "So if you were going to bet on the proportion of people in America who are gonna get (Covid-19) over the course of the next 18 months, what would you think that number is?" > B: 'Probably 30-50%.' C: "So if we say 50% of 340 million people, and a mortality rate of 1%, that would put us at 1.7 million dead. So if it was half of that, it's still an enormous number of people dead from this virus." D: 'Yeah, I think it's going to be more than people will imagine, but will it be cataclysmic? I don't think that's the case." > *This was from a highly influential March 10 interview in my country, and very influential on me. I have since passed through mixed reactions, including defending the forecast, feeling misled by the forecast, and rationalizing the forecast as factually flawed but directionally accurate (thus, good). Business colleagues have been less forgiving: "the bar of performance for these people is very low" > > P.S. Although 'get our of our disciplinary backsides' is more colorful, two well-known synonymous ideas here in the States are "mental models" (Shane Parrish) and "Loserthink" (Scott Adams) -- if interested, both authors operate outside of academia and advocate the necessity of being able to see through various windows. > > It seems xmca is also a many-windowed place. > > Thanks ~ > Anthony > > On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 6:00 PM Julian Williams > wrote: > Anthony > > This comment fits remarkably well with some work I have been doing and am pursuing right now on the subject of modelling, and the teaching of modelling (a long standing interest of mine, particularly in mathematics). > > You could say "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing"- although in this case I suspect what your president is teaching us all (perhaps the deliberate action of some sort of savant) is that a little knowledge is dangerous, but ignorance of ones little knowledge is lethal. > > Having irritated you, now then: yes, our politicians and public generally perhaps are inclined to reify models, (connects with what Anna stars has called numberese) and we need to understand what models can and can't do: in our teaching of modelling we have always emphasised the role of assumptions in every model... And the need for every "answer" to be interpreted in light of those assumptions, and the need to validate these in light of explicit assumptions. We were quite successful in implementing modelling in curriculums in many schools and universities for quite a while (it's a long story) but ultimately it was an innovation too far. But maybe all this talk of modelling will help us to revivify this... Let's see. > > But I referred to the 'predictions' (actually models, of course) of pandemic that have been 'known' for quite a while, the need for PPE, testing, isolation, lockdowns, and political fallout were all there, in case and on the assumption "we" did not prepare. > > We now have some validations and as time speeds up we are getting new models and validations. This is how 'facts' accumulate, ... > > But maybe too slow, and one of the accelerators could be the meta cognition about "modelling" ... If it was understood that "flattening the curve" was a fundamental misunderstanding about models it could help us. And if we all realised that epidemiologists are great empirical modellers but generally lacking explanatory theory and so hopelessly compromised in practice it might help. > > They talk of "flattening the curve" while public health medical scientists talk of "saving people's lives". Listen to the discourse and you will get an idea who the politicians are engaging with. > > The public, and even the science community needs a grasp of the various epistemological communities and disciplines, so we know what we know, what we don't know and what the various sciences have to offer in an interdisciplinary endeavour like this. As Anne Edwards has pointed out in regard to interdisciplinary team working, in Etienne Wenger's terms, we need awareness of the knowledge landscape, alongside our own silo ... In my terms, we have to get our heads out of our own disciplinary backsides and see the whole... (Meta disciplinary). > > Practical point: I am discussing resurrecting again a course in modelling ... If anyone has similar thoughts get in touch. Ialso will post if I get anywhere on this. > > Julian > > On 26 Apr 2020, at 21:32, Anthony Barra > wrote: > >> "the ability to glance at a chart and interpret it is likely to be a semiotic means not readily available to those without education to interpret them" >> >> . . . and this is especially true with the models, which are often not intended to be "true" but rather persuasive, or "directionally true" -- here is where being highly educated and 'chart-literate' might hurt more than help (i.e., reading the charts accurately, but mistaking the modeling as real data; or 'reading the text but missing the context'). >> >> It's a tricky landscape >> >> >> >> On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 3:54 PM mike cole > wrote: >> You raise a point that links to Mary's description, Martin >> >> As for making visible the virus and the illness, of course the charts make visible aspects of infection. >> >> I think that the ability to glance at a chart and interpret it is likely to be a semiotic means not readily available to >> those without education to interpret them. Or to rely on the source of information from this they come -- A government >> they have lost trust in. >> >> Professional vision, so to speak. >> >> >> mike >> >> On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 12:41 PM Martin Packer > wrote: >> Thanks to Mary and David for providing ?local' accounts? >> >> To take a shot at Mary?s question, Do we need governments to set up the conditions for the actions of individuals? - it seems that David?s answer is, we don't when there is a 'flexible and cooperative mindset,? perhaps forged in previous shared difficulties. Perhaps that applies to S. Korea as well. >> >> I suppose it should not be surprising that the most individualistic nations, the UK and US, seem to be having the greatest difficulty in coming together to face the situation. But even there, between individual and national government are a set of institutions that I think could play an important role in guiding people?s actions. >> >> Some simple examples that come to mind. Here, banks are expanding online services and dropping charges for online transfers, thus removing a barrier, albeit small, to providing financial assistance. Stores are creating symbolic markers that make visible safer interpersonal distance ? simple things like tape on the floor. I don?t know what stance the various religious institutions are taking. These are small steps, but they help nudge individual actions in the right direction. >> >> As for making visible the virus and the illness, of course the charts make visible aspects of infection. Tests, when they are available, create markers of infection and, hopefully, immunity. I worry that the media?s focus on the extremely ill may not encourage people to make sensible choices. >> >> One of the problems with staying at home is that while avoiding direct contact is healthy, it also prevents first-hand experience of the illness for most people. >> >> Martin >> >> >> >> >>> On Apr 26, 2020, at 3:40 AM, Mary van der Riet > wrote: >>> >>> I am struck in all of these conversations of the similarities with the HIV pandemic . We face these issues daily in the Southern African region (the highest prevalence of HIV globally). >>> We say 'it depends on us', and revert to information sharing, and dependence on cognitive shifts and adaptations (all of the old behaviour change theories Theory of Reasoned Action; Health Belief Models)- see the risk, know what the risk means, know how to prevent it, and make changes to your behaviour in order to protect yourself. >>> All of this is relevant for the COVID 10 pandemic, and much of it is not working. We as educated adults see the risk, know the risk, know how to protect ourselves (to the degree that scientists have informed us, and to the degree that science knows about the transmission) and yet it is really hard to change behaviour, to 'believe' that this is real >>> >>> And what does it mean for action? It means people don't social distance, don't use masks, see themselves as infallible etc. >>> >>> The origin of actions/activity do/does not reside in cognition...we know that from Activity theory, CHAT, etc. >>> >>> In the HIV pandemic in SA, there are still people who believe that you are fine if you cant see the symptoms (loss of weight, skin conditions, diarrohea - a fallacy by the way). A taxi driver said he would rather have HIV than Covid 19 because he could 'see' that someone was or was not HIV positive, but he is scared of Covid 19 because he cant 'see' it. Same discourse, same consequences. >>> Then there was a period in SA where HIV public health messaging was about showing coffins, and symbols of death to try to get people to take in the seriousness of it all. Do we find this now? are those more directly infected (someone in their family, seeing someone ill with Covid 19 - doctors, nurses)- more convinced about the nature of the problem). Perhaps not for some in the USA protesting this viral hoax. So, what changes behaviour? >>> >>> The question is the same - what is the motive that drives the health protection actions of individuals? The origin of behaviour is not individual cognition. >>> >>> Uganda was seen to have been so effective in reducing HIV incidence because it made HIV a notifiable disease. Is this draconian? Does it infringe on individual rights? [In SA we have not done that, we have a constitutional right to control and manage and keep private our HIV status; AND we have huge levels of stigma (extreme fear of going for an HIV test in a university context because people will 'see you there, and think you are HIV positive). At the same time, young women at universities are afraid of unplanned pregnancies because they are visible, (unlike HIV), and evidence of sexual activity. So, contradictions and tensions in practices around sexual activity in the context of 'risk' or vulnerability to HIV.] Governments who can instruct people how to behave (ie take the responsibility away from the individual) seem to have had more control over the spread of the virus (SA during lockdown). So a rule or a law which governs individual actions (and creating the context for an action, prescribing what might be 'afforded' in the context) might be more effective that the individual 'making a decision' >>> If condom use amongst young people is not a 'norm' it is difficult for one person to engage with condom use. >>> >>> Do we need governments to set up the conditions for the actions of individuals? >>> >>> Mary >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Mary van der Riet (Phd), Associate Professor >>> Discipline of Psychology, School of Applied Human Sciences, College of Humanities, University of KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa >>> email: vanderriet@ukzn.ac.za tel: +27 33 260 6163 >>> >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Julian Williams > >>> Sent: Saturday, 25 April 2020 20:24 >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? >>> >>> Martin, David >>> >>> Yes a lot depends... on ?us?. >>> >>> Check out the report, where you can see how much was ?predicted? years ago, even the possible public outrage ensuing government failures ; but yes my decisive, main point was not to predict, but to ACT. >>> >>> David I agree the bioscience issues are important, but bear in mind that our sloppy public health systems globally ( eg with wild life markets) expose humanity to many new viruses ( they estimate 2-4 new viruses per year) - our relations and actions shape this threat. >>> >>> Then also not just immediately, but imaginatively, to play with models (and not just those reductive epidemiologists? ?predictions?) .. but to imagineer a world subject that can act in future to tackle essentially GLOBAL challenges. >>> >>> Best wishes >>> >>> Julian >>> >>> On 25 Apr 2020, at 18:10, Martin Packer > wrote: >>> >>>> That?s the problem with predicting - it all depends! :) >>>> >>>> Yes, coronavirus may become endemic, like flu or the common cold or something worse. >>>> >>>> Or a vaccine may be developed. >>>> >>>> Or if 4 in 5 are somehow naturally resistant, and if most of the 1 in 5 who become infected develop immunity as a result, the incidence of covid could drop dramatically. >>>> >>>> Or we could all drink disinfectant. >>>> >>>> Martin >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Apr 25, 2020, at 11:49 AM, David H Kirshner > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> It is possible that the virus is eradicated, like SARS was, but that?s increasingly unlikely. >>>>> More likely is that ?2019-nCoV joins the four coronaviruses now circulating in people. ?I can imagine a scenario where this becomes a fifth endemic human coronavirus,? said Stephen Morse of Columbia University?s Mailman School of Public Health, an epidemiologist and expert on emerging infectious diseases.? >>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.statnews.com/2020/02/04/two-scenarios-if-new-coronavirus-isnt-contained/__;!!Mih3wA!VlHTVscDYayNL2nnX5HQdye1JliAMaJvv3Fmw8edVx9FLrbymrV7XXSSW97hfQEKaE1pSg$ >>>>> >>>>> The fact that such a large proportion of people who contract the virus are asymptomatic make this one very hard to contain. Of course, the possibility of a vaccine would greatly reduce its human toll. >>>>> >>>>> David >>>>> >>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > On Behalf Of Martin Packer >>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 11:14 AM >>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? >>>>> >>>>> David, >>>>> >>>>> There is talk about the possible eradication of the virus in Australia and New Zealand, from what I have read. Eradication is difficult when no one has resistance, but not impossible. Other virus infections have been eradicated, as far as one can tell, such as smallpox. >>>>> >>>>> In Wuhan, where the infections started, which is a city of around 11 million people, less that 70,000 cases were reported. Even if that is vastly underreported by a factor of 10 it is less than 10%. And studies in California suggest that only 1 in 5 have been infected, of whom 60% have not experienced any symptoms. Only around 5% need hospitalization. >>>>> >>>>> Martin >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 25, 2020, at 10:46 AM, David H Kirshner > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Martin, >>>>> The scenario you sketched out is what I?d thought would/could happen, but the epidemiologists don?t ever talk about eradicating the virus, they just talk about slowing the spread so as not to overwhelm health care facilities. Eventually, everyone who can get it will get it. So a generation of older and weaker people will be adversely affected, many dying. It?s only in the next generation when most people have gotten it young that it will fade into the background, like the common cold. >>>>> David >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > On Behalf Of Martin Packer >>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 7:42 AM >>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? >>>>> >>>>> Julian, >>>>> >>>>> If no efforts are made to contain a virus it will move through a population in a single wave, infecting many people and then disappearing as no more potential hosts are available. >>>>> >>>>> If efforts to contain it ? lockdown ? are adequate there will be a single much smaller wave, followed again by elimination as hosts are not available. >>>>> >>>>> If containment is not effective ? if people don?t isolate sufficiently ? there may be a second wave when the containment is reduced. Or the first wave may not be controlled. >>>>> >>>>> As you say, each country is responding differently. Australia seems close to eliminating the virus after a single wave. The US and UK are somewhere between starting a second wave and still being in a poorly controlled first wave. Colombia seems to be still moving up its first wave. >>>>> >>>>> The behavior of a virus can be modeled, but only on the basis of assumptions about how people are going to behave. Since we cannot predict this behavior, we cannot even predict how the virus will or will not spread, let alone the political, economic and social consequences. >>>>> >>>>> To say this is not to be pessimistic; pessimism would be predicting a dire outcome. Rather, it highlights that the outcome lies in all our hands. >>>>> >>>>> Martin >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 25, 2020, at 1:43 AM, Julian Williams > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Andy/Greg >>>>> >>>>> Each nation state appears to be ?playing? the pandemic in different ways (eg China, Italy, Australia, NZ, Sweden, UK, USA,? check out attached report which comes from https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://pandemic.internationalsos.com/2019-ncov__;!!Mih3wA!VlHTVscDYayNL2nnX5HQdye1JliAMaJvv3Fmw8edVx9FLrbymrV7XXSSW97hfQFuhYJszQ$ I get one of these reports every few days) while sometimes looking to other countries to see how their numbers are growing/falling (and mostly making a damn poor job of it). >>>>> >>>>> Before this all got going, the scientists already had a pretty good idea how a pandemic works, and even what needed to be done to prepare for it: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/revealed-uk-ministers-were-warned-last-year-of-risks-of-coronavirus-pandemic__;!!Mih3wA!VlHTVscDYayNL2nnX5HQdye1JliAMaJvv3Fmw8edVx9FLrbymrV7XXSSW97hfQHizdKz0g$ >>>>> And now we know a bit more than we did then. >>>>> >>>>> There is a prediction/warning there about a number of pandemic waves? >>>>> >>>>> In the second ?wave?, we ? the world subject-in-formation may have learnt more, maybe there will be fewer deaths? Maybe we will rescue WHO, maybe not (I won?t predict). But maybe the science community will be paying serious attention, and especially to its duty to the ?public good?. But there are some contradictory signs. In my own university we seem to be about to enter a new austerity, (implemented from the top by a failing leadership, led by a true academic, bio scientist no less!) >>>>> >>>>> What is clear is that the ?public? and its social movements are key to forcing each government to act, and that in almost all cases our leaders and rulers have followed along reluctantly ? even while the science and the pandemic plan was there. >>>>> >>>>> In the third and subsequent waves? I agree it?s not predictable: the outcomes will depend entirely on all of ?us?. >>>>> >>>>> And in the next ?big one?, the climate collapse? Maybe all this pandemic ?play? will have helped prepare us, we maybe will learn how to build the institutions, policies etc for the world?s ?public good? in time. I still have hope. >>>>> >>>>> I use Vygotsky-Leontiev?s idea of ?play? as the leading activity of the pre-schooler, as I find it complements the notion of world perezhivanie ? yes, we are experiencing trauma and that drives activity to overcome, etc, but also in this play we are acting, reflecting, and always ? above all - imagining and re-imagining (modelling etc) our world future. >>>>> >>>>> Julian >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: > on behalf of Andy Blunden > >>>>> Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > >>>>> Date: Saturday, 25 April 2020 at 02:08 >>>>> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > >>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? >>>>> >>>>> Greg, the word is polysemic, as Mike said, but I agree with Michael that perezhivaniya are essentially collective experiences. As I say in the article, that COVID will be experienced differently in different countries, by different classes and social groups is an important part of this process. It does not detract it from its being a single experience. >>>>> Huw, a "world subject" is emergent at this moment. It is implicit or "in-itself" but I look forward to the appearance of such a world subject, though who know how long and through what traumas we will pass before it is an actuality. Like WW2, the COVID pandemic part of its birth process. >>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/seminars/perezhivanie.htm__;!!Mih3wA!VlHTVscDYayNL2nnX5HQdye1JliAMaJvv3Fmw8edVx9FLrbymrV7XXSSW97hfQGBX7gXIg$ , Notes, links, excerpts, 2009 >>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Blunden_article*response.pdf__;Kw!!Mih3wA!VlHTVscDYayNL2nnX5HQdye1JliAMaJvv3Fmw8edVx9FLrbymrV7XXSSW97hfQF5QRJTKg$ , MCA article 2016 >>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Coronavirus-pandemic.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!VlHTVscDYayNL2nnX5HQdye1JliAMaJvv3Fmw8edVx9FLrbymrV7XXSSW97hfQFms42cjw$ >>>>> Andy >>>>> >>>>> Andy Blunden >>>>> Hegel for Social Movements >>>>> Home Page >>>>> On 25/04/2020 4:01 am, Greg Thompson wrote: >>>>> I'm wondering about Andy's suggestion that covid-19 is a (or maybe "is creating a"?) world perezhivanie. That seems a really rich suggestion but I'm not sure how many of us on the list really understand what he means by this. >>>>> >>>>> Andy tends to just tell me to go read more and so I'm wondering if someone else might be willing to take a stab at explaining what he might mean. >>>>> >>>>> Also, as a critical intervention, I am wondering whether covid-19 is the "same" for everyone. We have folks in the U.S. who think it is basically just a typical flu that has been turned into a political tool to attack the current president. Or does that not matter for perezhivanie? >>>>> >>>>> (and just to be clear, my question is not whether or not this is true or right or beautiful to think this way; my question is whether or not this is how people are actually experiencing the world since I assume that this is what perezhivanie is supposed to be "getting at". Or am I misunderstanding perezhivanie?) >>>>> >>>>> So is there really a shared perezhivanie here? >>>>> (Is The Problem of Age the place to look for answers?) >>>>> >>>>> But if no one wants to take this up (perhaps too much ink has been spilt over perezhivanie?), that's fine too. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> greg >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>>>> Assistant Professor >>>>> Department of Anthropology >>>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >>>>> Brigham Young University >>>>> Provo, UT 84602 >>>>> WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!VlHTVscDYayNL2nnX5HQdye1JliAMaJvv3Fmw8edVx9FLrbymrV7XXSSW97hfQGhHRz7ZQ$ >>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!VlHTVscDYayNL2nnX5HQdye1JliAMaJvv3Fmw8edVx9FLrbymrV7XXSSW97hfQHaulDZ3A$ >>>>> >> >> >> >> -- >>> the creation of utopias ? and their exhaustive criticism ? is the proper and distinctive method of sociology. H.G.Wells >> >> --------------------------------------------------- >> For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit >> lchc.ucsd.edu . For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu . >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200427/03abb008/attachment.html From helenaworthen@gmail.com Mon Apr 27 08:50:43 2020 From: helenaworthen@gmail.com (Helena Worthen) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 08:50:43 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6240596C-A7EB-45DF-8DB6-2BD3501462B5@gmail.com> Mike, I?m glad you?re watching ?Servant of the People.? There was also a good article in the New Yorker November 4 2019 about Zelensky and where he came from. I think there are some other countries where comics have been elected. Meanwhile, here?s an article about Vietnam, which has reported ?No deaths? from COVID 19, a figure that has people scratching their heads. I am on another list with people along a spectrum of Vietnam watchers and no one has been able to dispute that number. https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.thenation.com/article/world/coronavirus-vietnam-quarantine-mobilization/__;!!Mih3wA!T57xBuaxlug8hVHe70U2A21ClSUbVN3OVoNW5NfFsPUmUDsdnrml9FMtm407uPo$ Helena Worthen helenaworthen.wordpress.com > On Apr 24, 2020, at 11:22 AM, mike cole wrote: > > Greg- > > If there is a one right way to interpret the term, perezhivanie, I have no idea what it is. The term is polysemic in Russian. I would suggest that people > check out the special issue of MCA devoted to this topic. > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/toc/hmca20/23/4?nav=tocList__;!!Mih3wA!T57xBuaxlug8hVHe70U2A21ClSUbVN3OVoNW5NfFsPUmUDsdnrml9FMtYA8niOA$ > > These viewpoints are not exhaustive. > > The other night I was watching "Servant of the People" created by Volodymir Zelensky on netflix. Absolutely amazing, funny, and very very political. The most outstanding case of life imitating art I have yet encountered. In the program, which is in Russian with subtitles in English, an irate father, irritated by his > son's failure to grasp the nature of corruption in Ukraine tells him "dont perezhvai" in a manner that roughly translates as "don't get upset about it." The example lacks the "pere" suffix (the over again aspect) of re-experiencing an intense emotion/cognition. But this everyday meaning is used commonly. > > To me, the idea of "world perezhivanie" points to the fact that we are all "living through a period of suffering" with lots of cognitions, but it for those still standing > 20 years from now to reflect back on. The crisis is just beginning. > > > my 2 kopeks > mike > > On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 11:03 AM Greg Thompson > wrote: > I'm wondering about Andy's suggestion that covid-19 is a (or maybe "is creating a"?) world perezhivanie. That seems a really rich suggestion but I'm not sure how many of us on the list really understand what he means by this. > > Andy tends to just tell me to go read more and so I'm wondering if someone else might be willing to take a stab at explaining what he might mean. > > Also, as a critical intervention, I am wondering whether covid-19 is the "same" for everyone. We have folks in the U.S. who think it is basically just a typical flu that has been turned into a political tool to attack the current president. Or does that not matter for perezhivanie? > > (and just to be clear, my question is not whether or not this is true or right or beautiful to think this way; my question is whether or not this is how people are actually experiencing the world since I assume that this is what perezhivanie is supposed to be "getting at". Or am I misunderstanding perezhivanie?) > > So is there really a shared perezhivanie here? > (Is The Problem of Age the place to look for answers?) > > But if no one wants to take this up (perhaps too much ink has been spilt over perezhivanie?), that's fine too. > > Cheers, > greg > > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!T57xBuaxlug8hVHe70U2A21ClSUbVN3OVoNW5NfFsPUmUDsdnrml9FMtNYCGJas$ > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!T57xBuaxlug8hVHe70U2A21ClSUbVN3OVoNW5NfFsPUmUDsdnrml9FMtuPJP5M8$ > > -- >> the creation of utopias ? and their exhaustive criticism ? is the proper and distinctive method of sociology. H.G.Wells > > --------------------------------------------------- > For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit > lchc.ucsd.edu . For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu . > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200427/70693046/attachment.html From helenaworthen@gmail.com Mon Apr 27 08:50:43 2020 From: helenaworthen@gmail.com (Helena Worthen) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 08:50:43 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6240596C-A7EB-45DF-8DB6-2BD3501462B5@gmail.com> Mike, I?m glad you?re watching ?Servant of the People.? There was also a good article in the New Yorker November 4 2019 about Zelensky and where he came from. I think there are some other countries where comics have been elected. Meanwhile, here?s an article about Vietnam, which has reported ?No deaths? from COVID 19, a figure that has people scratching their heads. I am on another list with people along a spectrum of Vietnam watchers and no one has been able to dispute that number. https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.thenation.com/article/world/coronavirus-vietnam-quarantine-mobilization/__;!!Mih3wA!S_Ivkerl8HSFWPl9nl-uyvOmsYBGZjtzgxn0TompdJRQrZ_HMbCKX3z_LfbQGbWBZbbqoQ$ Helena Worthen helenaworthen.wordpress.com > On Apr 24, 2020, at 11:22 AM, mike cole wrote: > > Greg- > > If there is a one right way to interpret the term, perezhivanie, I have no idea what it is. The term is polysemic in Russian. I would suggest that people > check out the special issue of MCA devoted to this topic. > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/toc/hmca20/23/4?nav=tocList__;!!Mih3wA!S_Ivkerl8HSFWPl9nl-uyvOmsYBGZjtzgxn0TompdJRQrZ_HMbCKX3z_LfbQGbX6ahk7WA$ > > These viewpoints are not exhaustive. > > The other night I was watching "Servant of the People" created by Volodymir Zelensky on netflix. Absolutely amazing, funny, and very very political. The most outstanding case of life imitating art I have yet encountered. In the program, which is in Russian with subtitles in English, an irate father, irritated by his > son's failure to grasp the nature of corruption in Ukraine tells him "dont perezhvai" in a manner that roughly translates as "don't get upset about it." The example lacks the "pere" suffix (the over again aspect) of re-experiencing an intense emotion/cognition. But this everyday meaning is used commonly. > > To me, the idea of "world perezhivanie" points to the fact that we are all "living through a period of suffering" with lots of cognitions, but it for those still standing > 20 years from now to reflect back on. The crisis is just beginning. > > > my 2 kopeks > mike > > On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 11:03 AM Greg Thompson > wrote: > I'm wondering about Andy's suggestion that covid-19 is a (or maybe "is creating a"?) world perezhivanie. That seems a really rich suggestion but I'm not sure how many of us on the list really understand what he means by this. > > Andy tends to just tell me to go read more and so I'm wondering if someone else might be willing to take a stab at explaining what he might mean. > > Also, as a critical intervention, I am wondering whether covid-19 is the "same" for everyone. We have folks in the U.S. who think it is basically just a typical flu that has been turned into a political tool to attack the current president. Or does that not matter for perezhivanie? > > (and just to be clear, my question is not whether or not this is true or right or beautiful to think this way; my question is whether or not this is how people are actually experiencing the world since I assume that this is what perezhivanie is supposed to be "getting at". Or am I misunderstanding perezhivanie?) > > So is there really a shared perezhivanie here? > (Is The Problem of Age the place to look for answers?) > > But if no one wants to take this up (perhaps too much ink has been spilt over perezhivanie?), that's fine too. > > Cheers, > greg > > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!S_Ivkerl8HSFWPl9nl-uyvOmsYBGZjtzgxn0TompdJRQrZ_HMbCKX3z_LfbQGbV8gjNurA$ > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!S_Ivkerl8HSFWPl9nl-uyvOmsYBGZjtzgxn0TompdJRQrZ_HMbCKX3z_LfbQGbXLdxe6tA$ > > -- >> the creation of utopias ? and their exhaustive criticism ? is the proper and distinctive method of sociology. H.G.Wells > > --------------------------------------------------- > For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit > lchc.ucsd.edu . For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu . > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200427/70693046/attachment-0001.html From helenaworthen@gmail.com Mon Apr 27 09:29:35 2020 From: helenaworthen@gmail.com (Helena Worthen) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 09:29:35 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: As of 2020, the American Century is Over In-Reply-To: <85fc2557-3931-47ff-12d4-267e9281a955@marxists.org> References: <85fc2557-3931-47ff-12d4-267e9281a955@marxists.org> Message-ID: <7F106666-4E69-4606-AAB0-10EE9E7A733D@gmail.com> I have been circulating Andy?s paper among close friends and family to generate discussion. What is mostly coming back is confirmation of the general arc, with examples from personal experience, but some disagreement about cause. These are ?inside? views ? meaning, people who are US citizens talking about us, so these are experiences of the passing of an era and what they look like from inside. About a year ago I realized that, for better or worse, I identify as ?an American.? And I don?t mean North American. Chris Appy?s book, American Reckoning, is a pretty good history that takes us from the 1940s up to Obama and tracks the hole we fell into with the Vietnam War. For people of my generation (BA 1965 ? and I mention that date rather than when I was born because 1965 connects to the draft, the lottery, the anti-war demonstrations, the asssinations, etc etc) the story told with the Vietnam War in the foreground connects very tightly to lived experience. Helena Worthen helenaworthen.wordpress.com > On Apr 22, 2020, at 4:30 AM, Andy Blunden wrote: > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/American-Century.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!XcU8579mWywdcqmeoxsBIaoTABjB8vxuTp-FZ_h915atZxyYeLjUQ1UM07fCEHDOlZs7YQ$ [ethicalpolitics.org] > Andy > -- > Andy Blunden > Hegel for Social Movements [brill.com] > Home Page [ethicalpolitics.org] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200427/be6101ac/attachment.html From ulvi.icil@gmail.com Mon Apr 27 11:46:55 2020 From: ulvi.icil@gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?VWx2aSDEsMOnaWw=?=) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 21:46:55 +0300 Subject: [Xmca-l] FT Message-ID: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ft.com/content/6bd88b7d-3386-4543-b2e9-0d5c6fac846c__;!!Mih3wA!WuX8WOqCqDkLo4zkFJ2OKJ2qHAzspdZMVSEZc0xI02kMAc9Kx5l_Y2WEKGsoK7E_MernoA$ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200427/891d306b/attachment.html From helenaworthen@gmail.com Mon Apr 27 12:23:10 2020 From: helenaworthen@gmail.com (Helena Worthen) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 12:23:10 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: As of 2020, the American Century is Over In-Reply-To: <7F106666-4E69-4606-AAB0-10EE9E7A733D@gmail.com> References: <85fc2557-3931-47ff-12d4-267e9281a955@marxists.org> <7F106666-4E69-4606-AAB0-10EE9E7A733D@gmail.com> Message-ID: <255B3664-FD24-4025-9854-0B5D8EFA2962@gmail.com> Andy?s paper has basically 4 parts. One a flyby overview of the history of the US ? this is where the majority of criticisms by people I know are showing up because people have different versions of that history. Then the argument that with the US going down as one of the poles of global leadership. My friends and family agree with this and are all, as Americans, offering examples of how they have experienced this. Andy notes that there is an empty spot at the top that hasn?t been taken yet. Then comes his COVID-19 point, that this is a global moment in which the whole world is participating. Most of the xmca discussion has been about that so far, if I?m not mistaken. And finally a challenge to foresee what we will learn from this experience. OK, now trying to forsee what we can learn is what I?m doing. So here is my question, appropriate for this list since we are all interested in education. I found myself writing the following, as part of describing the way a workforce can be intentionally divided into feuding packs of enemies so that we can?t take action in solidarity. We?re referring to ?the distortions of human development under capitalism? and say that ?we see this in its sharpest form in the for-profit part of the higher education industry. We have to look past the distortion to find the original, human connection?.? One of our readers asks where this concept came from. I don?t remember!! It makes sense, though, doesn?t? Anyone have any idea where it came from? So far I?m saying, The concept of ?distortions of human development under capitalism? depends on looking at human development as occurring within a social, historical and cultural framework ? not just the development of individuals on their own or within a family or even a school, but within a society. Specifically we mean psychological and cognitive disabilities ranging from lack of empathy, envy, despair, alienation and bullying to obesity, eating disorders and stress-related auto-immune illness. Thanks ? H Helena Worthen h elenaworthen@gmail.com > On Apr 27, 2020, at 9:29 AM, Helena Worthen wrote: > > I have been circulating Andy?s paper among close friends and family to generate discussion. What is mostly coming back is confirmation of the general arc, with examples from personal experience, but some disagreement about cause. These are ?inside? views ? meaning, people who are US citizens talking about us, so these are experiences of the passing of an era and what they look like from inside. > > About a year ago I realized that, for better or worse, I identify as ?an American.? And I don?t mean North American. > > Chris Appy?s book, American Reckoning, is a pretty good history that takes us from the 1940s up to Obama and tracks the hole we fell into with the Vietnam War. For people of my generation (BA 1965 ? and I mention that date rather than when I was born because 1965 connects to the draft, the lottery, the anti-war demonstrations, the asssinations, etc etc) the story told with the Vietnam War in the foreground connects very tightly to lived experience. > > Helena Worthen > helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > > > >> On Apr 22, 2020, at 4:30 AM, Andy Blunden > wrote: >> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/American-Century.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!UcGlX0bri43EmtmpvW-FJpbJfMb7jPTAosJ6QpYDWeFiy_BNZhBTLSo7yel8MfyrawV2RQ$ [ethicalpolitics.org] >> Andy >> -- >> Andy Blunden >> Hegel for Social Movements [brill.com] >> Home Page [ethicalpolitics.org] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200427/564d1c9e/attachment.html From ulvi.icil@gmail.com Mon Apr 27 15:14:36 2020 From: ulvi.icil@gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?VWx2aSDEsMOnaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 01:14:36 +0300 Subject: [Xmca-l] Red medicine Message-ID: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/archive/newsholme/1933/red-medicine/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!TIEiXf-wvsj0_44MBHFOFZbriYWnv0AKxpv2-sa9aKHs8FHLS51MRjMEw7x5MrkPAxcBMg$ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200428/cad2f11b/attachment.html From anthonymbarra@gmail.com Mon Apr 27 15:33:15 2020 From: anthonymbarra@gmail.com (Anthony Barra) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 18:33:15 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Red medicine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You don't have a Facebook page? On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 6:17 PM Ulvi ??il wrote: > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/archive/newsholme/1933/red-medicine/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!V-84rZik6zbwClXvmBncQBgMHFaIenasBqqk0wr-tFQt2GdD1SlLYx-nxnypYsDnK-Wa1w$ > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200427/18186a70/attachment.html From ulvi.icil@gmail.com Mon Apr 27 15:43:43 2020 From: ulvi.icil@gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?VWx2aSDEsMOnaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 01:43:43 +0300 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Red medicine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I especially intended to share with this group's members who may be interested in these days, which is not irrelevant. On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 at 01:37, Anthony Barra wrote: > You don't have a Facebook page? > > > On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 6:17 PM Ulvi ??il wrote: > >> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/archive/newsholme/1933/red-medicine/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!Qj1iHfewSIrp5OTh2d0ul3YA78Rkc1zK3irK6amri_AR3uqRTYdXhhDcOTEKdJ1uQIJZkw$ >> >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200428/880fafbf/attachment.html From ulvi.icil@gmail.com Mon Apr 27 16:12:37 2020 From: ulvi.icil@gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?VWx2aSDEsMOnaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 02:12:37 +0300 Subject: [Xmca-l] The Features of a Social Situation of Development of Children under Modern Russian Conditions Message-ID: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.ich-sciences.de/media/journal/Ausgabe_4/4_3.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!WMAsf1mNcAzIXZLRV55F868z6LJT2uC9meiwsiTIpKZwreo7ozRDx-Kbh0-1TSuoejNazQ$ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200428/51b1cb84/attachment.html From dkellogg60@gmail.com Mon Apr 27 17:58:41 2020 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 09:58:41 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Red medicine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Many thanks, Ulvi. In exchange, let me offer a chapter of Vygotsky's red medicine which as far as I know has never been translated into English. It's from his Pedology of the Adolescent, of course. (Outline and material in boxes by the Seoul Vygotsky Community; all else by LSV). David Kellogg Sangmyung University New Article: Ruqaiya Hasan, in memoriam: A manual and a manifesto. Outlines, Spring 2020 https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238/167607__;!!Mih3wA!QUUC--avy4m53ZuG61w_UPCjMyVwaeURXkpz9_37DXS7U_-gh3Rd5AZF41NB3mXr6WxrCw$ New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: *L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works* *Volume One: Foundations of Pedology*" https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!QUUC--avy4m53ZuG61w_UPCjMyVwaeURXkpz9_37DXS7U_-gh3Rd5AZF41NB3mUhBfrkHw$ On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 7:46 AM Ulvi ??il wrote: > I especially intended to share with this group's members who may be > interested in these days, which is not irrelevant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 at 01:37, Anthony Barra > wrote: > >> You don't have a Facebook page? >> >> >> On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 6:17 PM Ulvi ??il wrote: >> >>> >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/archive/newsholme/1933/red-medicine/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!QUUC--avy4m53ZuG61w_UPCjMyVwaeURXkpz9_37DXS7U_-gh3Rd5AZF41NB3mVa0itkCQ$ >>> >>> >>> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200428/88823d82/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Conflicts and Complications.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 898905 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200428/88823d82/attachment-0001.bin From ulvi.icil@gmail.com Mon Apr 27 18:12:41 2020 From: ulvi.icil@gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?VWx2aSDEsMOnaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 04:12:41 +0300 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Red medicine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you very much David. On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 at 04:10, David Kellogg wrote: > Many thanks, Ulvi. In exchange, let me offer a chapter of Vygotsky's red > medicine which as far as I know has never been translated into English. > It's from his Pedology of the Adolescent, of course. > (Outline and material in boxes by the Seoul Vygotsky Community; all else > by LSV). > > David Kellogg > Sangmyung University > > New Article: Ruqaiya Hasan, in memoriam: A manual and a manifesto. > Outlines, Spring 2020 > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238/167607__;!!Mih3wA!RRqU3Rqa2pRQ2cd82nA0zjQdtqGL9h8U_vJk6IrsR183153LnTXFkZWAEpepoLYtwc_2DA$ > > > New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: *L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works* *Volume > One: Foundations of Pedology*" > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!RRqU3Rqa2pRQ2cd82nA0zjQdtqGL9h8U_vJk6IrsR183153LnTXFkZWAEpepoLa5IJ-jpQ$ > > > > > On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 7:46 AM Ulvi ??il wrote: > >> I especially intended to share with this group's members who may be >> interested in these days, which is not irrelevant. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 at 01:37, Anthony Barra >> wrote: >> >>> You don't have a Facebook page? >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 6:17 PM Ulvi ??il wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/archive/newsholme/1933/red-medicine/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!RRqU3Rqa2pRQ2cd82nA0zjQdtqGL9h8U_vJk6IrsR183153LnTXFkZWAEpepoLa-DnTTOA$ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200428/43187000/attachment.html From andyb@marxists.org Mon Apr 27 19:48:04 2020 From: andyb@marxists.org (Andy Blunden) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 12:48:04 +1000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: As of 2020, the American Century is Over In-Reply-To: <255B3664-FD24-4025-9854-0B5D8EFA2962@gmail.com> References: <85fc2557-3931-47ff-12d4-267e9281a955@marxists.org> <7F106666-4E69-4606-AAB0-10EE9E7A733D@gmail.com> <255B3664-FD24-4025-9854-0B5D8EFA2962@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1c1c059f-f9a9-3606-ae1c-56d0626dd7e6@marxists.org> How about this Helena?: "Time is the room of human development. A man who has no free time to dispose of, whose whole lifetime, apart from the mere physical interruptions by sleep, meals, and so forth, is absorbed by his labour for the capitalist, is less than a beast of burden. He is a mere machine for producing Foreign Wealth, broken in body and brutalized in mind. Yet the whole history of modern industry shows that capital, if not checked, will recklessly and ruthlessly work to cast down the whole working class to this utmost state of degradation." https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1865/value-price-profit/ch03.htm__;!!Mih3wA!U0ZIjNUqNnItiZjyJjIUnKMWddqAJiWLdB_L-G5Wb6DNQLTG7uZz_Seq6oZRbIPgrIdiUQ$ ------------------------------------------------------------ *Andy Blunden* Hegel for Social Movements Home Page On 28/04/2020 5:23 am, Helena Worthen wrote: > Andy?s paper has basically 4 parts. ?One a flyby overview > of the history of the US ? this is where the majority of > criticisms by people I know are showing up because people > have different versions of that history. Then the argument > that with the US going down as one of the poles of global > leadership. My friends and family agree with this and are > all, as Americans, offering examples of how they have > experienced this. Andy notes that there is an empty spot > at the top that hasn?t been taken yet. ?Then comes his > COVID-19 point, that this is a global moment in which the > whole world is participating. Most of the xmca discussion > has been about that so far, if I?m not mistaken. And > finally a challenge to foresee what we will learn from > this experience. > > OK, now trying to forsee what we can learn is what I?m > doing. ?So here is my question, appropriate for this list > since we are all interested in education. I found myself > writing the following, as part of describing the way a > workforce can be intentionally divided into feuding packs > of enemies so that we can?t take action in solidarity. > We?re referring to ?the distortions of human development > under capitalism? and say that ?we see this in its > sharpest form in the for-profit part of the higher > education industry. We have to look past the distortion to > find the original, human connection?.? > > One of our readers asks where this concept came from. I > don?t remember!! It makes sense, though, doesn?t? Anyone > have any idea where it came from? So far I?m saying, > > The concept of ?distortions of human development under > capitalism? depends on looking at human development as > occurring within a social, historical and cultural > framework ? not just the development of individuals on > their own or within a family or even a school, but within > a society. Specifically we mean psychological and > cognitive disabilities ranging from lack of empathy, envy, > despair, alienation and bullying to obesity, eating > disorders and stress-related auto-immune illness. > > Thanks ? H > > > > > Helena Worthen > h > elenaworthen@gmail.com > > > > > > > > >> On Apr 27, 2020, at 9:29 AM, Helena Worthen >> > > wrote: >> >> I have been circulating Andy?s paper among close friends >> and family to generate discussion. What is mostly coming >> back is confirmation of the general arc, with examples >> from personal experience, but some disagreement about >> cause. These are ?inside? views ? meaning, people who are >> US citizens talking about us, so these are experiences of >> the passing of an era and what they look like from inside. >> >> About a year ago I realized that, for better or worse, I >> identify as ?an American.? And I don?t mean North American. >> >> Chris Appy?s book, /American Reckoning/, is a pretty good >> history that takes us from the 1940s up to Obama and >> tracks the hole we fell into with the Vietnam War. For >> people of my generation (BA 1965 ? and I mention that >> date rather than when I was born because 1965 connects to >> the draft, the lottery, the anti-war demonstrations, the >> asssinations, etc etc) the story told with the Vietnam >> War in the foreground connects very tightly to lived >> experience. >> >> Helena Worthen >> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Apr 22, 2020, at 4:30 AM, Andy Blunden >>> > wrote: >>> >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/American-Century.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!U0ZIjNUqNnItiZjyJjIUnKMWddqAJiWLdB_L-G5Wb6DNQLTG7uZz_Seq6oZRbIPiGjltHw$ >>> [ethicalpolitics.org] >>> >>> Andy >>> >>> -- >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> *Andy Blunden* >>> Hegel for Social Movements [brill.com] >>> >>> Home Page [ethicalpolitics.org] >>> >>> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200428/6c0f0370/attachment.html From andyb@marxists.org Tue Apr 28 05:41:13 2020 From: andyb@marxists.org (Andy Blunden) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 22:41:13 +1000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Red medicine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1d18fee0-f73e-0642-5bed-a8e0a26208c9@marxists.org> Fascinating text, David. It is great the work you are doing with this material. Interesting that Vygotsky did not /reduce /adolescence to either sexual maturity, or citizenship or apprenticeship (if I understood it correctly) but looks at the necessary /contradictions /between these differing tasks. Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ *Andy Blunden* Hegel for Social Movements Home Page On 28/04/2020 10:58 am, David Kellogg wrote: > Many thanks, Ulvi. In exchange, let me offer a chapter of > Vygotsky's red medicine which as far as I know has never > been translated into English. It's from his Pedology of > the Adolescent, of course. > (Outline and material in boxes by?the Seoul Vygotsky > Community; all else by LSV). > > David Kellogg > Sangmyung University > > New Article: Ruqaiya Hasan, in memoriam: A manual and a > manifesto. > Outlines, Spring 2020 > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238/167607__;!!Mih3wA!TWOlykIMZfe7gNAz08v1JOQ9D6Ca9VNc1fEb3u3nq9fJhxr_9aTW7GNyBxuo1Bz5K4tNpg$ > > > New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: /L.S. Vygotsky's > Pedological Works/ /Volume One: Foundations of Pedology/" > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!TWOlykIMZfe7gNAz08v1JOQ9D6Ca9VNc1fEb3u3nq9fJhxr_9aTW7GNyBxuo1Bzthc4QfA$ > > > > > On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 7:46 AM Ulvi ??il > > wrote: > > I especially intended to share with this group's > members who may be interested in these days, which is > not irrelevant. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 at 01:37, Anthony Barra > > wrote: > > You don't have a Facebook page? > > > On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 6:17 PM Ulvi ??il > > > wrote: > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/archive/newsholme/1933/red-medicine/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!TWOlykIMZfe7gNAz08v1JOQ9D6Ca9VNc1fEb3u3nq9fJhxr_9aTW7GNyBxuo1BxnKRS4qA$ > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200428/048958f8/attachment.html From maria-antonietta.IMPEDOVO@univ-amu.fr Tue Apr 28 05:44:49 2020 From: maria-antonietta.IMPEDOVO@univ-amu.fr (IMPEDOVO Maria antonietta) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 12:44:49 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Red medicine In-Reply-To: <1d18fee0-f73e-0642-5bed-a8e0a26208c9@marxists.org> References: , <1d18fee0-f73e-0642-5bed-a8e0a26208c9@marxists.org> Message-ID: <4aae8a3768c94ad3b7ded4ffb11f7130@univ-amu.fr> [1567503561220] Maria IMPEDOVO - Ma?tre de Conf?rences Institut national sup?rieur du professorat et de l??ducation d?Aix-Marseille et UR4671 ADEF Aix-Marseille Universit? ?Insp?? Campus ?toile site de Saint-J?r?me | 52 Avenue Escadrille Normandie?Niemen ? 13013 Marseille T?l : +33(0) 07 83 25 05 27 Bureau: P-325 Sites : www perso - Research ID - google school ________________________________ De : xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu de la part de Andy Blunden Envoy? : mardi 28 avril 2020 14:41 ? : xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu Objet : [Xmca-l] Re: Red medicine Fascinating text, David. It is great the work you are doing with this material. Interesting that Vygotsky did not reduce adolescence to either sexual maturity, or citizenship or apprenticeship (if I understood it correctly) but looks at the necessary contradictions between these differing tasks. Andy ________________________________ Andy Blunden Hegel for Social Movements Home Page On 28/04/2020 10:58 am, David Kellogg wrote: Many thanks, Ulvi. In exchange, let me offer a chapter of Vygotsky's red medicine which as far as I know has never been translated into English. It's from his Pedology of the Adolescent, of course. (Outline and material in boxes by the Seoul Vygotsky Community; all else by LSV). David Kellogg Sangmyung University New Article: Ruqaiya Hasan, in memoriam: A manual and a manifesto. Outlines, Spring 2020 https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238/167607__;!!Mih3wA!Wbl5A-Sgb3Q0x9LexRsjIl9fpMdw3iT1K4UuVaz9cvkrP1EZeIjjAmbsaE02MQxqEGxDlg$ New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!Wbl5A-Sgb3Q0x9LexRsjIl9fpMdw3iT1K4UuVaz9cvkrP1EZeIjjAmbsaE02MQxz9FQv7g$ On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 7:46 AM Ulvi ??il > wrote: I especially intended to share with this group's members who may be interested in these days, which is not irrelevant. On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 at 01:37, Anthony Barra > wrote: You don't have a Facebook page? On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 6:17 PM Ulvi ??il > wrote: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/archive/newsholme/1933/red-medicine/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!Wbl5A-Sgb3Q0x9LexRsjIl9fpMdw3iT1K4UuVaz9cvkrP1EZeIjjAmbsaE02MQy5aDIoGQ$ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200428/283098b3/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: OutlookEmoji-15675035612201e012266-8584-474c-b711-dfba2bcfe986.png Type: image/png Size: 18320 bytes Desc: OutlookEmoji-15675035612201e012266-8584-474c-b711-dfba2bcfe986.png Url : http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200428/283098b3/attachment.png From helenaworthen@gmail.com Tue Apr 28 10:16:05 2020 From: helenaworthen@gmail.com (Helena Worthen) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 10:16:05 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: As of 2020, the American Century is Over In-Reply-To: <1c1c059f-f9a9-3606-ae1c-56d0626dd7e6@marxists.org> References: <85fc2557-3931-47ff-12d4-267e9281a955@marxists.org> <7F106666-4E69-4606-AAB0-10EE9E7A733D@gmail.com> <255B3664-FD24-4025-9854-0B5D8EFA2962@gmail.com> <1c1c059f-f9a9-3606-ae1c-56d0626dd7e6@marxists.org> Message-ID: <4BF1F09B-8C62-4B6B-A573-27F80EDBF7D4@gmail.com> thanks! Helena Worthen helenaworthen.wordpress.com > On Apr 27, 2020, at 7:48 PM, Andy Blunden wrote: > > How about this Helena?: > "Time is the room of human development. A man who has no free time to dispose of, whose whole lifetime, apart from the mere physical interruptions by sleep, meals, and so forth, is absorbed by his labour for the capitalist, is less than a beast of burden. He is a mere machine for producing Foreign Wealth, broken in body and brutalized in mind. Yet the whole history of modern industry shows that capital, if not checked, will recklessly and ruthlessly work to cast down the whole working class to this utmost state of degradation." > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1865/value-price-profit/ch03.htm__;!!Mih3wA!UVu0FyqJVuJenyvV_scJ3MWPEkVsnH0IzNgN9NaOMBtflAfvMwpBsESRDItyh53-2TK_tw$ > Andy Blunden > Hegel for Social Movements > Home Page > On 28/04/2020 5:23 am, Helena Worthen wrote: >> Andy?s paper has basically 4 parts. One a flyby overview of the history of the US ? this is where the majority of criticisms by people I know are showing up because people have different versions of that history. Then the argument that with the US going down as one of the poles of global leadership. My friends and family agree with this and are all, as Americans, offering examples of how they have experienced this. Andy notes that there is an empty spot at the top that hasn?t been taken yet. Then comes his COVID-19 point, that this is a global moment in which the whole world is participating. Most of the xmca discussion has been about that so far, if I?m not mistaken. And finally a challenge to foresee what we will learn from this experience. >> >> OK, now trying to forsee what we can learn is what I?m doing. So here is my question, appropriate for this list since we are all interested in education. I found myself writing the following, as part of describing the way a workforce can be intentionally divided into feuding packs of enemies so that we can?t take action in solidarity. We?re referring to ?the distortions of human development under capitalism? and say that ?we see this in its sharpest form in the for-profit part of the higher education industry. We have to look past the distortion to find the original, human connection?.? >> >> One of our readers asks where this concept came from. I don?t remember!! It makes sense, though, doesn?t? Anyone have any idea where it came from? So far I?m saying, >> >> The concept of ?distortions of human development under capitalism? depends on looking at human development as occurring within a social, historical and cultural framework ? not just the development of individuals on their own or within a family or even a school, but within a society. Specifically we mean psychological and cognitive disabilities ranging from lack of empathy, envy, despair, alienation and bullying to obesity, eating disorders and stress-related auto-immune illness. >> >> Thanks ? H >> >> >> >> >> Helena Worthen >> h elenaworthen@gmail.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Apr 27, 2020, at 9:29 AM, Helena Worthen > wrote: >>> >>> I have been circulating Andy?s paper among close friends and family to generate discussion. What is mostly coming back is confirmation of the general arc, with examples from personal experience, but some disagreement about cause. These are ?inside? views ? meaning, people who are US citizens talking about us, so these are experiences of the passing of an era and what they look like from inside. >>> >>> About a year ago I realized that, for better or worse, I identify as ?an American.? And I don?t mean North American. >>> >>> Chris Appy?s book, American Reckoning, is a pretty good history that takes us from the 1940s up to Obama and tracks the hole we fell into with the Vietnam War. For people of my generation (BA 1965 ? and I mention that date rather than when I was born because 1965 connects to the draft, the lottery, the anti-war demonstrations, the asssinations, etc etc) the story told with the Vietnam War in the foreground connects very tightly to lived experience. >>> >>> Helena Worthen >>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Apr 22, 2020, at 4:30 AM, Andy Blunden > wrote: >>>> >>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/American-Century.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!UVu0FyqJVuJenyvV_scJ3MWPEkVsnH0IzNgN9NaOMBtflAfvMwpBsESRDItyh51-Hqty5A$ [ethicalpolitics.org] >>>> Andy >>>> -- >>>> Andy Blunden >>>> Hegel for Social Movements [brill.com] >>>> Home Page [ethicalpolitics.org] >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200428/5bae73c4/attachment.html From greg.a.thompson@gmail.com Tue Apr 28 11:00:23 2020 From: greg.a.thompson@gmail.com (Greg Thompson) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 12:00:23 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Red medicine In-Reply-To: <4aae8a3768c94ad3b7ded4ffb11f7130@univ-amu.fr> References: <1d18fee0-f73e-0642-5bed-a8e0a26208c9@marxists.org> <4aae8a3768c94ad3b7ded4ffb11f7130@univ-amu.fr> Message-ID: and of particular relevance to the present moment (from David's text) is this little blurb that can point us to an early articulations of deficit theories (...tuberculosis as a disease inherited by the poor - very relevant right now as we'll see in the next few months as the US "economy" "opens up" and the poor in our country are exposed to this virus (while others continue to walk around saying "what virus?")): "Robert Heinrich Hermann Koch (1843 ? 1910) was a German doctor and professor at Berlin University. In 1882 he discovered the bacteria that causes tuberculosis, which at the time was a ?White Plague? that killed one in seven Germans. Before Koch, people believed that TB was inherited (because it was overwhelmingly a disease of the poor). Koch proved that this was not true and even isolated the protein substance which appeared to cause death, which he called tuberculin. He set up a private company and attempted to make tuberculin into a cure for the disease, but failed and went bankrupt, largely because death from tuberculosis is also due to environmental factors and not simply constitutional ones. Tuberculin is still used to diagnose tuberculosis (e.g. in the Mantoux test)." On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 6:46 AM IMPEDOVO Maria antonietta < maria-antonietta.IMPEDOVO@univ-amu.fr> wrote: > > > > [image: 1567503561220] > > Maria IMPEDOVO - *Ma?tre de Conf?rences * > > *Institut national sup?rieur du professorat et de l??ducation > d?Aix-Marseille et UR4671 ADEF * > > Aix-Marseille Universit? ?Insp?? Campus ?toile site de Saint-J?r?me | 52 > Avenue Escadrille Normandie?Niemen ? 13013 Marseille > > T?l : +33(0) 07 83 25 05 27 > > Bureau: P-325 > Sites : www perso > > - Research ID > > - google sch > > ool > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > *De :* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > de la part de Andy Blunden > *Envoy? :* mardi 28 avril 2020 14:41 > *? :* xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > *Objet :* [Xmca-l] Re: Red medicine > > > Fascinating text, David. It is great the work you are doing with this > material. > > Interesting that Vygotsky did not *reduce *adolescence to either sexual > maturity, or citizenship or apprenticeship (if I understood it correctly) > but looks at the necessary *contradictions *between these differing tasks. > > Andy > ------------------------------ > *Andy Blunden* > Hegel for Social Movements > > Home Page > > On 28/04/2020 10:58 am, David Kellogg wrote: > > Many thanks, Ulvi. In exchange, let me offer a chapter of Vygotsky's red > medicine which as far as I know has never been translated into English. > It's from his Pedology of the Adolescent, of course. > (Outline and material in boxes by the Seoul Vygotsky Community; all else > by LSV). > > David Kellogg > Sangmyung University > > New Article: Ruqaiya Hasan, in memoriam: A manual and a manifesto. > Outlines, Spring 2020 > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238/167607__;!!Mih3wA!SlBw9dfj9rLMa0CFG8HQkfH0uhZoPIfSGNrA6yXSMC6yTT9RoMaPVpfA__XLeMX9r7mWwQ$ > > > New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: *L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works* * > Volume One: Foundations of Pedology*" > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!SlBw9dfj9rLMa0CFG8HQkfH0uhZoPIfSGNrA6yXSMC6yTT9RoMaPVpfA__XLeMVgd7sIPQ$ > > > > > On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 7:46 AM Ulvi ??il wrote: > >> I especially intended to share with this group's members who may be >> interested in these days, which is not irrelevant. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 at 01:37, Anthony Barra >> wrote: >> >>> You don't have a Facebook page? >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 6:17 PM Ulvi ??il wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/archive/newsholme/1933/red-medicine/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!SlBw9dfj9rLMa0CFG8HQkfH0uhZoPIfSGNrA6yXSMC6yTT9RoMaPVpfA__XLeMUrMaP50g$ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!SlBw9dfj9rLMa0CFG8HQkfH0uhZoPIfSGNrA6yXSMC6yTT9RoMaPVpfA__XLeMWYs7xTww$ https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!SlBw9dfj9rLMa0CFG8HQkfH0uhZoPIfSGNrA6yXSMC6yTT9RoMaPVpfA__XLeMW3Fn5slQ$ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200428/b777a581/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: OutlookEmoji-15675035612201e012266-8584-474c-b711-dfba2bcfe986.png Type: image/png Size: 18320 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200428/b777a581/attachment.png From helenaworthen@gmail.com Tue Apr 28 11:05:02 2020 From: helenaworthen@gmail.com (Helena Worthen) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 11:05:02 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Features of a Social Situation of Development of Children under Modern Russian Conditions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <924CB758-11E6-4792-8EF2-B0ADA4C24854@gmail.com> Ulvi, thank you! you can?t guess how timely and useful this article is to me at this moment! Now I owe a whole chain of thanks here, including one to the reader of our draft book on union organizing in the California State University system over 40 years ? our reader put a pencil question mark next to the phrase ?distortions of human development under capitalism?? which I thought was a no-brainer until I saw her mark. Another thanks to you and Andy and yet another to this whole list ? how else would I have found this paper you sent? Two points that I can use this paper to clarify: One is that a key interviewee had taught in the CSUs in the 1970s-80s, left and came back in the late 90s. while he was gone the system changed from being free/no tuition to charging tuition, the student body changed from high school graduates to working people in their late 20s and 30s, more women, more minorities ? and accumulating debt. Also the teaching workforce was becoming increasingly non-tenure track ? contingent. when he comes back to teaching he?s disturbed by the change in the attitude of students toward learning - impatient, grade-conscious, competitive, unwilling to do things that don?t ?count.? The other is the change in the psychology of the non-tenure line (contingent) faculty as they become the majority of the teaching workforce and get organized. The ?ideal adult? of the old days was the tenured faculty member, usually a white male, viewing the world of academia through ?the tenured gaze? ? from the seat of privilege. The shift in the teaching workforce demographic from tenure-line to majority contingent (a product of the corporatization of the university) eclipsed that ideal and opened up space for a much more activist ideal, a kind of professor for whom a commitment to union activity was part of their professional equipment. Building on this it was possible for the union to mount a credible strike threat across all 23 campuses and bargain what are arguably the best contract for contingent faculty in the US. The second thing was actually a good thing ? it brought out the fight. Of course that takes a lot of preparation. Thanks again ? Helena Worthen helenaworthen.wordpress.com > On Apr 27, 2020, at 4:12 PM, Ulvi ??il wrote: > > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.ich-sciences.de/media/journal/Ausgabe_4/4_3.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!SheEUfKcZwzbm7U7K1cGQpmm5Z3UoTD9JUz6sDenCI3eutZL8mfBlloBGuiv3bfkT3P9Hg$ > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200428/43f06b8c/attachment.html From ulvi.icil@gmail.com Tue Apr 28 11:12:03 2020 From: ulvi.icil@gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?VWx2aSDEsMOnaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 21:12:03 +0300 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Features of a Social Situation of Development of Children under Modern Russian Conditions In-Reply-To: <924CB758-11E6-4792-8EF2-B0ADA4C24854@gmail.com> References: <924CB758-11E6-4792-8EF2-B0ADA4C24854@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thank you Helena. I am glad that it is useful. Ulvi 28 Nis 2020 Sal 21:08 tarihinde Helena Worthen ?unu yazd?: > Ulvi, thank you! you can?t guess how timely and useful this article is to > me at this moment! Now I owe a whole chain of thanks here, including one > to the reader of our draft book on union organizing in the California State > University system over 40 years ? our reader put a pencil question mark > next to the phrase ?distortions of human development under capitalism?? > which I thought was a no-brainer until I saw her mark. Another thanks to > you and Andy and yet another to this whole list ? how else would I have > found this paper you sent? > > Two points that I can use this paper to clarify: > > One is that a key interviewee had taught in the CSUs in the 1970s-80s, > left and came back in the late 90s. while he was gone the system changed > from being free/no tuition to charging tuition, the student body changed > from high school graduates to working people in their late 20s and 30s, > more women, more minorities ? and accumulating debt. Also the teaching > workforce was becoming increasingly non-tenure track ? contingent. when he > comes back to teaching he?s disturbed by the change in the attitude of > students toward learning - impatient, grade-conscious, competitive, > unwilling to do things that don?t ?count.? > > The other is the change in the psychology of the non-tenure line > (contingent) faculty as they become the majority of the teaching workforce > and get organized. The ?ideal adult? of the old days was the tenured > faculty member, usually a white male, viewing the world of academia through > ?the tenured gaze? ? from the seat of privilege. The shift in the teaching > workforce demographic from tenure-line to majority contingent (a product of > the corporatization of the university) eclipsed that ideal and opened up > space for a much more activist ideal, a kind of professor for whom a > commitment to union activity was part of their professional equipment. > Building on this it was possible for the union to mount a credible strike > threat across all 23 campuses and bargain what are arguably the best > contract for contingent faculty in the US. > > The second thing was actually a good thing ? it brought out the fight. Of > course that takes a lot of preparation. > > Thanks again ? > > > Helena Worthen > helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > > > > > On Apr 27, 2020, at 4:12 PM, Ulvi ??il wrote: > > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.ich-sciences.de/media/journal/Ausgabe_4/4_3.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!TklblaB1wAjwPlAIHbDgLvt_4ncomUPknifdQqqU1doSfU5UKPNGnbNyhapPLeqnm0ms9A$ > > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200428/e153921a/attachment.html From s.franklin08@btinternet.com Tue Apr 28 13:49:13 2020 From: s.franklin08@btinternet.com (Shirley Franklin) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 21:49:13 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Xmca-l] Re change of email address In-Reply-To: <1c1c059f-f9a9-3606-ae1c-56d0626dd7e6@marxists.org> References: <85fc2557-3931-47ff-12d4-267e9281a955@marxists.org> <7F106666-4E69-4606-AAB0-10EE9E7A733D@gmail.com> <255B3664-FD24-4025-9854-0B5D8EFA2962@gmail.com> <1c1c059f-f9a9-3606-ae1c-56d0626dd7e6@marxists.org> Message-ID: <1af9f8c0.266a.171c28d01ba.Webtop.99@btinternet.com> Sorry to bother everyone with this but I would be grateful if the administrator of this list would change my email address from s.franklin08@btinternet,com to shirlwhirl49@icloud.com It is unclear how we are supposed to do this. Shirley -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200428/f1298e35/attachment.html From hshonerd@gmail.com Tue Apr 28 17:44:29 2020 From: hshonerd@gmail.com (HENRY SHONERD) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:44:29 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Love's In Need of Lean on Me In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7C52C1D6-55E1-49F5-8B25-70EF49C4BC02@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200428/cdfa799e/attachment.html From dkellogg60@gmail.com Tue Apr 28 18:37:15 2020 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 10:37:15 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Love's In Need of Lean on Me In-Reply-To: <7C52C1D6-55E1-49F5-8B25-70EF49C4BC02@gmail.com> References: <7C52C1D6-55E1-49F5-8B25-70EF49C4BC02@gmail.com> Message-ID: No, shared property is always better, Henry, particularly where "property" is to be understood as meaning something like "quality" rather than mere right of possession. As usual, you got it right away (it took me a while to work it out). I think that's because you always focus on the postive content. What strikes me is the dark warnings, the force of evil, the precautionary measures, and the need to fight back. But the real "message", to the extent that art has a message mortals understand, lies beyond both the form and the content. The specific form in which genre--always a shared property--is internalized is as not as a genre but as an indefinitely creative form of imagination we can call the repertoire. But this repertoire, that feeling that helps Stevie merge the two songs so that you only notice the seam if you know both songs by heart, is always an inner property tied "by a thousand strands and ten thousand threads" (as we say in Chinese), "intertwined and then interwoven" (as we say in Russian) to shared property. It's not about race, although it does have something to do with class (in both senses of the word). Listen to the way this doctor sings the song: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qCKrDJ5OL8__;!!Mih3wA!VabcjW3NhbX_sOIPqWyp8qCr3_UlX0jS_bL0rn7d6qHAS3raLqlSn4MO0lj4TuDl6xhlEw$ Yeah, I know. He sounds like a white dude--he doesn't collapse the consonants and he pronounces "strong" without the /sh/ sound that Stevie uses. But no one can say he doesn't sing with class. Compare to the way this black guy in New Orleans does it: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiouJsnYytI__;!!Mih3wA!VabcjW3NhbX_sOIPqWyp8qCr3_UlX0jS_bL0rn7d6qHAS3raLqlSn4MO0lj4TuCM_o-qgw$ See, that one just doesn't do it. It's not just because of the switch from "I'm gonna need" to "you're gonna need" and from "I just might have a problem you'd understand" to "you just might have a problem I'd understand". I just don't think you can treat this tune like a travel info-mercial. The change of message does, however, better reflect the message of the performance sponsors, Bill and Melinda Gates. David Kellogg Sangmyung University New Article: Ruqaiya Hasan, in memoriam: A manual and a manifesto. Outlines, Spring 2020 https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238/167607__;!!Mih3wA!VabcjW3NhbX_sOIPqWyp8qCr3_UlX0jS_bL0rn7d6qHAS3raLqlSn4MO0lj4TuDVcE8N1g$ New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: *L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works* *Volume One: Foundations of Pedology*" https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!VabcjW3NhbX_sOIPqWyp8qCr3_UlX0jS_bL0rn7d6qHAS3raLqlSn4MO0lj4TuCvn2gXLA$ On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 9:50 AM HENRY SHONERD wrote: > David, > > I wrote some ideas in response to your post below, then, as I ofen do, > decided to forego the anxiety of posting it to the entire XMCA listserv. > Here is some inchoate thinking/feeling that I will send to you off-line: > > Am I wrong? What is love, if not reciprocity? At any scale, iove is > revolutionary. A parasite takes from its host and gives nothing in return. > Work gives meaning to life and is a way to make a living. Love is freely > given: It doesn?t say I give so that you will give back, but a lopsided > giving and taking demeans the giver and the taker. At least say thank you. > From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. > > Stay well > Henry > > > On Apr 23, 2020, at 3:15 PM, David Kellogg wrote: > > You can lean on me, Anthony. I was, as you guessed, being pretty critical > of the video you sent around: I think Wertsch hasn't even got his Hayden > White right (Hayden White was drawing on a study of medieval literature and > he argued that the narrative is not so much memory as moral iinstruction). > But most of the moral instruction (not entertainment) I intended is there > in the tune, which is from the recent "Home Alone" concert which Lady Gaga > curated over Zoom. > > As you probably heard, Stevie Wonder is mashing up a song from the late > great Bill Withers that goes like this: > > You just call on me, Brother, when you need a hand > We all need somebody to lean on > I just might have a problem that you'll understand > We all need somebody to lean on > > Interestingly, a lot of people can't follow that switch. Even my wife > argues that it makes the idea of mutuality transactional--the song says > that you can lean on me if and only if I can then lean on you, which makes > it a covert form of exchange. So there are some versions that switch the > pronouns and sing "You just might have a problem that I'll understand" > which makes it coherent narrative, but entirely unidirectional. > > But there's a real moral message which makes it a Hayden White type > narrative. It's not just about mutuality. It's about this: > > Good morn or evening friends > Here's your friendly announcer > I have serious news to pass on to every-body > What I'm about to say > Could mean the world's disaster > Could change your joy and laughter to tears and pain > > It's that > Love's in need of love today > Don't delay > Send yours in right away > Hate's goin' round > Breaking many hearts > Stop it please > Before it's gone too far > > The force of evil plans > To make you its possession > And it will if we let it > Destroy everybody > We all must take > Precautionary measures > If love and peace you treasure > Then you'll hear me when I say > > Love's in need of love today > love's in need of love today > Don't delay don't delay > Send yours in right away > > See what I mean? It's not really a narrative. It's not even two narratives > spliced together. It's repertoire: the kind of thing a great musician > carries around in his or her head. But that head carries that repertoire > not just because it leans on ten thousand hours of gruelling practice (pace > Malcolm Gladwell). That repertoire is a subset of meaning potential > winnowed (not "produced") by a thousand years of turbulent history (which > is what Hayden White REALLY said), That's what we are seeing now. > > David Kellogg > Sangmyung University > > Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of *Critical > Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational > action research' in Mind Culture and Activity* > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847__;!!Mih3wA!VabcjW3NhbX_sOIPqWyp8qCr3_UlX0jS_bL0rn7d6qHAS3raLqlSn4MO0lj4TuDl-Os-Fw$ > [tandfonline.com] > > > Some free e-prints available at: > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080*10749039.2020.1745847__;Lw!!Mih3wA!VabcjW3NhbX_sOIPqWyp8qCr3_UlX0jS_bL0rn7d6qHAS3raLqlSn4MO0lj4TuDTNtWVaA$ > [tandfonline.com] > > > New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works > Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!VabcjW3NhbX_sOIPqWyp8qCr3_UlX0jS_bL0rn7d6qHAS3raLqlSn4MO0lj4TuCvn2gXLA$ [springer.com] > > > > > On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 3:25 AM Anthony Barra > wrote: > >> Thank you. In this post, David provides value for me by including a video >> I might enjoy, and even greater value to the group by writing three >> paragraphs they will understand. >> >> I will reread a few times and try to take what I can from them. >> >> Thanks again ~ >> Anthony >> >> >> >> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 7:41 AM David Kellogg >> wrote: >> >>> Anthony: >>> >>> Wertsch believes that governments have very limited power to create >>> narratives: they can only "produce" narratives that people will "consume", >>> never mind that this production and consumption involves neither fixed nor >>> variable capital and exchanges neither use nor exchange value, and he feels >>> no need whatsoever to offer us a theory (beyond "my side bias", which is >>> nothing but a Piagetian egocentrism that dare not speak its name) about why >>> one culture should prefer this narrative and another should prefer that >>> one. An example he gives is that the US Communist Party never in its >>> history, which is now over a century long, was able to produce a narrative >>> that American workers wanted to consume. >>> >>> Except that whole generations of terror, state and private, were >>> manifestly required to bring about this happy result: race riots, >>> night-riding, lynching, and massacres. Even then HUAC and McCarthy were >>> required to consolidate it. Ethel Rosenberg was practically burnt at the >>> stake; Paul Robeson practically driven to suicide. .And still you have >>> weird little kids like me, born the child of a Manhattan Project scientist, >>> who dares to believe all the things that so surprise and shock Wertsch: >>> that the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was an unconscionable war >>> crime whose only real purpose was to scare the USSR away from China and >>> Korea (where a huge proportion of the population had to be murdered less >>> they "consume" the Communist "narrative"). I believed these things not >>> because of a narrative template, but simply because they fit perfectly with >>> facts I grew up knowing. Now that I live here I know these things are true >>> and undeniable, the way that Auschwitz and Birkenau cannot be denied. >>> >>> I think that Wertsch's powers of decentration fail him right at the >>> crucial moment: his very notion of narrative as a basis of human culture is >>> ethocentric, because it is based on the language variables that Han >>> Hui-jeong and I called SELF: Subjects, Expectancy of nominal bias, >>> Linearity of sentences along SVO lines, and the Focalizing voice that >>> passes judgement at the end of the story. These are not properties of >>> culture, as Wertsch seems to think, they are merely properties of the >>> English language. Similarly, "narrative" is simply an individual >>> realization of a particular autobiographical genre, quite different to and >>> alien from the way that most people on this planet experience the episodes >>> of their lives. And even genre is, despite the work of J.R. Martin, not an >>> over-arching category which all discourse semantics must realize: genre is >>> a rather fusty and fixed category of something much larger we can call >>> meaning potential. It is much easier to explain my own beliefs and even the >>> productions of Korean children as mash-ups of a growing repertoire of >>> genres, similar to repertoires of music: classical, folk, K-pop and R&B. >>> >>> (Did you catch Stevie Wonder's mash-up of "Lean on Me" and "Love's in >>> Need of Love Today"? https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vgfBJhlEEo__;!!Mih3wA!VabcjW3NhbX_sOIPqWyp8qCr3_UlX0jS_bL0rn7d6qHAS3raLqlSn4MO0lj4TuAEp6m9cw$ >>> [youtube.com] >>> Is >>> it narrative or repertoire?) >>> >>> David Kellogg >>> Sangmyung University >>> >>> Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of *Critical >>> Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational >>> action research' in Mind Culture and Activity* >>> >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847__;!!Mih3wA!VabcjW3NhbX_sOIPqWyp8qCr3_UlX0jS_bL0rn7d6qHAS3raLqlSn4MO0lj4TuDl-Os-Fw$ >>> [tandfonline.com] >>> >>> >>> Some free e-prints available at: >>> >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080*10749039.2020.1745847__;Lw!!Mih3wA!VabcjW3NhbX_sOIPqWyp8qCr3_UlX0jS_bL0rn7d6qHAS3raLqlSn4MO0lj4TuDTNtWVaA$ >>> [tandfonline.com] >>> >>> >>> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works >>> Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" >>> >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!VabcjW3NhbX_sOIPqWyp8qCr3_UlX0jS_bL0rn7d6qHAS3raLqlSn4MO0lj4TuCvn2gXLA$ [springer.com] >>> >>> >>> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200429/1f994fa2/attachment.html From greg.a.thompson@gmail.com Tue Apr 28 20:13:25 2020 From: greg.a.thompson@gmail.com (Greg Thompson) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 21:13:25 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: As of 2020, the American Century is Over In-Reply-To: <4BF1F09B-8C62-4B6B-A573-27F80EDBF7D4@gmail.com> References: <85fc2557-3931-47ff-12d4-267e9281a955@marxists.org> <7F106666-4E69-4606-AAB0-10EE9E7A733D@gmail.com> <255B3664-FD24-4025-9854-0B5D8EFA2962@gmail.com> <1c1c059f-f9a9-3606-ae1c-56d0626dd7e6@marxists.org> <4BF1F09B-8C62-4B6B-A573-27F80EDBF7D4@gmail.com> Message-ID: Helena, It sounds like you are describing the commodity fetish. The labor of the professor is no longer seen as their own production. Instead it is seen that the professor simply draws from some "body of knowledge" or a credential that has a particular (monetary) value. As with any good (i.e., bad) commodity relation, even the exchange relations between buyer and seller (professor and student) are hidden and the professor is merely a conduit to that valuable knowledge or credential. What the professor has to offer is MONETIZED, perhaps we might say that the professor themself is monetized, even BRANDED (take a look at the web pages of young faculty and you'll see how important "brand yourself" has become in the academy). The professor and her work are understood in terms of market value, return on investment, earning potential of students. Students today understand their task as being a good consumer; to get at least equal value from professors as they pay in tuition. (granted much of this is via a credential, but the professors are a big part of what stands behind the university's credential). You'll hear students frequently complain (rightly so) about how much they are paying for their education followed by some specific complaint about a professor. This is all part of a larger system in which this is understood as how the world works. You get what you pay for. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. And so on. Can we blame students for wanting to know what they are going to "get" for the money that they pay for college, and note that this gets even more intense during hard economic times, of which we are deep into right this moment (although the fear usually takes a semester or two before people start fleeing the humanities and the social sciences to business, engineering, computer science, or pre-anything). (and Lave and Mcdermott's article on Estranged Labor Learning might be worth revisiting in this regard?) In addition to Marx's commodity fetish, a related and interesting way to think of this is in terms of Marcel Mauss' notion of gift vs. exchange economy (if you'll allow me to oversimplify a bit). The main difference is that an exchange economy involves transactions that are always calculated to be of exactly equal value. The $13 pair of shoes I buy at the store are worth EXACTLY $13. Each party to the transaction gets their "money's worth". Sounds great right? Fair, to be sure. Except it means that there is no relationship established between the parties. After the exchange, the parties no longer have any meaningful relationship. In contrast, a gifting relationship is not responded in kind (at least not initially). As Mary Douglas says in her intro to Mauss' book The Gift, "there are no free gifts". Note that this is a very different statement from Milton Friedman's "there ain't no such thing as a free lunch". Douglas means that the gift creates a sense of obligation and thus a relationship. As much as we might understand this in intimate spaces, as Americans in public spaces all we know are exchange relationships (people reject healthcare for all b.c. "why should I have to pay for healthcare for someone else", ditto for education (yes, there is a movement in the US to get rid of public education!)). This is the logic behind the out-of-hand rejection of socialism - it does not make sense in the logic of exchange. And, of course, taxes are justified only in as much as you "get" something for it (roads, police, fire department, public transport, etc.) and increasingly tax dollars are getting hyper-localized so that you get precisely what you pay for and don't pay a dime more (e.g., gated communities with private police force, fire dept, etc). Interestingly I just today was privilege to hear a colleague present about his work in Papua New Guinea (the island of Missima, in the Massim region - the site of the Kula ring made famous to Westerners by Malinowski - and yes, the Kula ring still operates today). He noted that Missimans can't understand why Americans (and other Westerners) are so interested in engaging in exchanges that cut ties (e.g., buying things from them and then running off). And when Missimans do try to engage in gifting relationships with Americans, they are struck by how quickly the Americans run off, never to return (what idiots those Americans are!). It is absolutely baffling to them since they spend their days building relationships with others. Why would someone not want relationships with others? Can we perhaps understand their bafflement? And what, then, is human development within a world where relations of exchange are everything? (and thankfully, it isn't total, we Americans still view kin relations as something more than an exchange relation). Anyway, that's at least two times two cents too much. And terribly inchoate. Far too "off the cuff". Apologies. -greg On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 11:19 AM Helena Worthen wrote: > thanks! > > Helena Worthen > helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > > > > > On Apr 27, 2020, at 7:48 PM, Andy Blunden wrote: > > How about this Helena?: > > "Time is the room of human development. A man who has no free time to > dispose of, whose whole lifetime, apart from the mere physical > interruptions by sleep, meals, and so forth, is absorbed by his labour for > the capitalist, is less than a beast of burden. He is a mere machine for > producing Foreign Wealth, broken in body and brutalized in mind. Yet the > whole history of modern industry shows that capital, if not checked, will > recklessly and ruthlessly work to cast down the whole working class to this > utmost state of degradation." > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1865/value-price-profit/ch03.htm__;!!Mih3wA!S8aPyl0LZm5JbyqVsx82RVJz5voa3506DwxTG_y5rfSiIn2oJEsL93eRsRg_Zv_EtEU1Bg$ > > > ------------------------------ > *Andy Blunden* > Hegel for Social Movements > > Home Page > > On 28/04/2020 5:23 am, Helena Worthen wrote: > > Andy?s paper has basically 4 parts. One a flyby overview of the history > of the US ? this is where the majority of criticisms by people I know are > showing up because people have different versions of that history. Then the > argument that with the US going down as one of the poles of global > leadership. My friends and family agree with this and are all, as > Americans, offering examples of how they have experienced this. Andy notes > that there is an empty spot at the top that hasn?t been taken yet. Then > comes his COVID-19 point, that this is a global moment in which the whole > world is participating. Most of the xmca discussion has been about that so > far, if I?m not mistaken. And finally a challenge to foresee what we will > learn from this experience. > > OK, now trying to forsee what we can learn is what I?m doing. So here is > my question, appropriate for this list since we are all interested in > education. I found myself writing the following, as part of describing the > way a workforce can be intentionally divided into feuding packs of enemies > so that we can?t take action in solidarity. We?re referring to ?the > distortions of human development under capitalism? and say that ?we see > this in its sharpest form in the for-profit part of the higher education > industry. We have to look past the distortion to find the original, human > connection?.? > > One of our readers asks where this concept came from. I don?t remember!! > It makes sense, though, doesn?t? Anyone have any idea where it came from? > So far I?m saying, > > The concept of ?distortions of human development under capitalism? > depends on looking at human development as occurring within a social, > historical and cultural framework ? not just the development of individuals > on their own or within a family or even a school, but within a society. > Specifically we mean psychological and cognitive disabilities ranging from > lack of empathy, envy, despair, alienation and bullying to obesity, eating > disorders and stress-related auto-immune illness. > > Thanks ? H > > > > > Helena Worthen > h > > elenaworthen@gmail.com > > > > > > > > On Apr 27, 2020, at 9:29 AM, Helena Worthen > wrote: > > I have been circulating Andy?s paper among close friends and family to > generate discussion. What is mostly coming back is confirmation of the > general arc, with examples from personal experience, but some disagreement > about cause. These are ?inside? views ? meaning, people who are US citizens > talking about us, so these are experiences of the passing of an era and > what they look like from inside. > > About a year ago I realized that, for better or worse, I identify as ?an > American.? And I don?t mean North American. > > Chris Appy?s book, *American Reckoning*, is a pretty good history that > takes us from the 1940s up to Obama and tracks the hole we fell into with > the Vietnam War. For people of my generation (BA 1965 ? and I mention that > date rather than when I was born because 1965 connects to the draft, the > lottery, the anti-war demonstrations, the asssinations, etc etc) the story > told with the Vietnam War in the foreground connects very tightly to lived > experience. > > Helena Worthen > helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > > > > > On Apr 22, 2020, at 4:30 AM, Andy Blunden wrote: > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/American-Century.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!S8aPyl0LZm5JbyqVsx82RVJz5voa3506DwxTG_y5rfSiIn2oJEsL93eRsRg_Zv_80SkTDQ$ > [ethicalpolitics.org] > > > Andy > -- > ------------------------------ > *Andy Blunden* > Hegel for Social Movements [brill.com] > > Home Page [ethicalpolitics.org] > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200428/daa29df7/attachment.html From mpacker@cantab.net Wed Apr 29 07:53:25 2020 From: mpacker@cantab.net (Martin Packer) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:53:25 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: As of 2020, the American Century is Over In-Reply-To: References: <85fc2557-3931-47ff-12d4-267e9281a955@marxists.org> <7F106666-4E69-4606-AAB0-10EE9E7A733D@gmail.com> <255B3664-FD24-4025-9854-0B5D8EFA2962@gmail.com> <1c1c059f-f9a9-3606-ae1c-56d0626dd7e6@marxists.org> <4BF1F09B-8C62-4B6B-A573-27F80EDBF7D4@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Greg, Are you suggesting that you would like to be able to build a personal relationship with each and every one of your students? And with all your colleagues at the university.? And all the staff at the local supermarket? And all the people who work to send you packages from Amazon? And ?. That?s to say, there are reasons why humans have added ?anonymous? interactions to the personal and interpersonal relationship that (as you acknowledge) we still build and maintain. Martin > On Apr 28, 2020, at 10:13 PM, Greg Thompson wrote: > > Helena, > > It sounds like you are describing the commodity fetish. The labor of the professor is no longer seen as their own production. Instead it is seen that the professor simply draws from some "body of knowledge" or a credential that has a particular (monetary) value. As with any good (i.e., bad) commodity relation, even the exchange relations between buyer and seller (professor and student) are hidden and the professor is merely a conduit to that valuable knowledge or credential. What the professor has to offer is MONETIZED, perhaps we might say that the professor themself is monetized, even BRANDED (take a look at the web pages of young faculty and you'll see how important "brand yourself" has become in the academy). The professor and her work are understood in terms of market value, return on investment, earning potential of students. > > Students today understand their task as being a good consumer; to get at least equal value from professors as they pay in tuition. (granted much of this is via a credential, but the professors are a big part of what stands behind the university's credential). You'll hear students frequently complain (rightly so) about how much they are paying for their education followed by some specific complaint about a professor. > > This is all part of a larger system in which this is understood as how the world works. You get what you pay for. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. And so on. Can we blame students for wanting to know what they are going to "get" for the money that they pay for college, and note that this gets even more intense during hard economic times, of which we are deep into right this moment (although the fear usually takes a semester or two before people start fleeing the humanities and the social sciences to business, engineering, computer science, or pre-anything). > > (and Lave and Mcdermott's article on Estranged Labor Learning might be worth revisiting in this regard?) > > In addition to Marx's commodity fetish, a related and interesting way to think of this is in terms of Marcel Mauss' notion of gift vs. exchange economy (if you'll allow me to oversimplify a bit). The main difference is that an exchange economy involves transactions that are always calculated to be of exactly equal value. The $13 pair of shoes I buy at the store are worth EXACTLY $13. Each party to the transaction gets their "money's worth". Sounds great right? Fair, to be sure. Except it means that there is no relationship established between the parties. After the exchange, the parties no longer have any meaningful relationship. In contrast, a gifting relationship is not responded in kind (at least not initially). As Mary Douglas says in her intro to Mauss' book The Gift, "there are no free gifts". Note that this is a very different statement from Milton Friedman's "there ain't no such thing as a free lunch". Douglas means that the gift creates a sense of obligation and thus a relationship. As much as we might understand this in intimate spaces, as Americans in public spaces all we know are exchange relationships (people reject healthcare for all b.c. "why should I have to pay for healthcare for someone else", ditto for education (yes, there is a movement in the US to get rid of public education!)). This is the logic behind the out-of-hand rejection of socialism - it does not make sense in the logic of exchange. And, of course, taxes are justified only in as much as you "get" something for it (roads, police, fire department, public transport, etc.) and increasingly tax dollars are getting hyper-localized so that you get precisely what you pay for and don't pay a dime more (e.g., gated communities with private police force, fire dept, etc). > > Interestingly I just today was privilege to hear a colleague present about his work in Papua New Guinea (the island of Missima, in the Massim region - the site of the Kula ring made famous to Westerners by Malinowski - and yes, the Kula ring still operates today). He noted that Missimans can't understand why Americans (and other Westerners) are so interested in engaging in exchanges that cut ties (e.g., buying things from them and then running off). And when Missimans do try to engage in gifting relationships with Americans, they are struck by how quickly the Americans run off, never to return (what idiots those Americans are!). It is absolutely baffling to them since they spend their days building relationships with others. Why would someone not want relationships with others? > > Can we perhaps understand their bafflement? > > And what, then, is human development within a world where relations of exchange are everything? (and thankfully, it isn't total, we Americans still view kin relations as something more than an exchange relation). > > Anyway, that's at least two times two cents too much. And terribly inchoate. Far too "off the cuff". Apologies. > > -greg > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 11:19 AM Helena Worthen > wrote: > thanks! > > Helena Worthen > helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > > > >> On Apr 27, 2020, at 7:48 PM, Andy Blunden > wrote: >> >> How about this Helena?: >> "Time is the room of human development. A man who has no free time to dispose of, whose whole lifetime, apart from the mere physical interruptions by sleep, meals, and so forth, is absorbed by his labour for the capitalist, is less than a beast of burden. He is a mere machine for producing Foreign Wealth, broken in body and brutalized in mind. Yet the whole history of modern industry shows that capital, if not checked, will recklessly and ruthlessly work to cast down the whole working class to this utmost state of degradation." >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1865/value-price-profit/ch03.htm__;!!Mih3wA!UdVCcbdDuRJ5PAOz1I2xGARybzy1-aROYNa0riQEv2ARYM_eX4jHmakwA6fJALX1az8uew$ >> Andy Blunden >> Hegel for Social Movements >> Home Page >> On 28/04/2020 5:23 am, Helena Worthen wrote: >>> Andy?s paper has basically 4 parts. One a flyby overview of the history of the US ? this is where the majority of criticisms by people I know are showing up because people have different versions of that history. Then the argument that with the US going down as one of the poles of global leadership. My friends and family agree with this and are all, as Americans, offering examples of how they have experienced this. Andy notes that there is an empty spot at the top that hasn?t been taken yet. Then comes his COVID-19 point, that this is a global moment in which the whole world is participating. Most of the xmca discussion has been about that so far, if I?m not mistaken. And finally a challenge to foresee what we will learn from this experience. >>> >>> OK, now trying to forsee what we can learn is what I?m doing. So here is my question, appropriate for this list since we are all interested in education. I found myself writing the following, as part of describing the way a workforce can be intentionally divided into feuding packs of enemies so that we can?t take action in solidarity. We?re referring to ?the distortions of human development under capitalism? and say that ?we see this in its sharpest form in the for-profit part of the higher education industry. We have to look past the distortion to find the original, human connection?.? >>> >>> One of our readers asks where this concept came from. I don?t remember!! It makes sense, though, doesn?t? Anyone have any idea where it came from? So far I?m saying, >>> >>> The concept of ?distortions of human development under capitalism? depends on looking at human development as occurring within a social, historical and cultural framework ? not just the development of individuals on their own or within a family or even a school, but within a society. Specifically we mean psychological and cognitive disabilities ranging from lack of empathy, envy, despair, alienation and bullying to obesity, eating disorders and stress-related auto-immune illness. >>> >>> Thanks ? H >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Helena Worthen >>> h elenaworthen@gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Apr 27, 2020, at 9:29 AM, Helena Worthen > wrote: >>>> >>>> I have been circulating Andy?s paper among close friends and family to generate discussion. What is mostly coming back is confirmation of the general arc, with examples from personal experience, but some disagreement about cause. These are ?inside? views ? meaning, people who are US citizens talking about us, so these are experiences of the passing of an era and what they look like from inside. >>>> >>>> About a year ago I realized that, for better or worse, I identify as ?an American.? And I don?t mean North American. >>>> >>>> Chris Appy?s book, American Reckoning, is a pretty good history that takes us from the 1940s up to Obama and tracks the hole we fell into with the Vietnam War. For people of my generation (BA 1965 ? and I mention that date rather than when I was born because 1965 connects to the draft, the lottery, the anti-war demonstrations, the asssinations, etc etc) the story told with the Vietnam War in the foreground connects very tightly to lived experience. >>>> >>>> Helena Worthen >>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Apr 22, 2020, at 4:30 AM, Andy Blunden > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/American-Century.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!UdVCcbdDuRJ5PAOz1I2xGARybzy1-aROYNa0riQEv2ARYM_eX4jHmakwA6fJALUnswooIA$ [ethicalpolitics.org] >>>>> Andy >>>>> -- >>>>> Andy Blunden >>>>> Hegel for Social Movements [brill.com] >>>>> Home Page [ethicalpolitics.org] >>> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200429/2003eb97/attachment.html From helenaworthen@gmail.com Wed Apr 29 09:41:06 2020 From: helenaworthen@gmail.com (Helena Worthen) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:41:06 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: As of 2020, the American Century is Over In-Reply-To: References: <85fc2557-3931-47ff-12d4-267e9281a955@marxists.org> <7F106666-4E69-4606-AAB0-10EE9E7A733D@gmail.com> <255B3664-FD24-4025-9854-0B5D8EFA2962@gmail.com> <1c1c059f-f9a9-3606-ae1c-56d0626dd7e6@marxists.org> <4BF1F09B-8C62-4B6B-A573-27F80EDBF7D4@gmail.com> Message-ID: <6EA7437D-09DC-4B52-B00B-218E674D1B85@gmail.com> Greg, I think you are drawing attention to one of the consequences of the distortion of human development under capitalism. If that?s what you mean, then yes, the phenomenon of relationships that dead-end when a commodity exchange has taken place, rather than moving in a circle of reciprocal contribution, would be an example. A small relatively new private music school near us apparently has not been paying either its state unemployment insurance payroll taxes or making its equivalent contribution to a special fund set up for non-profits. Now, with the lockdown, it is having to deal with reimbursing the state for unemployment claims by its laid-off teachers. If you draw the circle of reciprocal contribution around this situation, look at what gets linked up. Students, their families, teachers, the management of the school, the enormous Employment Development Department at the state level, the legislature?the circle is gigantic, elements of it way beyond the horizon of what most people linked up in it imagine. In this case, the ?cut and run? took place at the point where the Board of the school decided somehow to assume they could risk taking on the obligation of paying unemployment benefits rather than pay the payroll tax. Easy to do ? it?s a small non-profit and this is something that gets easily overlooked by inexperienced managers. Nevertheless, the distortion that I?m thinking of ? the fear, anger and resentment that pile up when laid-off teachers apply for UI benefits? would be a consequence of capitalism. Helena Worthen h elenaworthen@gmail.com > On Apr 29, 2020, at 7:53 AM, Martin Packer wrote: > > Hi Greg, > > Are you suggesting that you would like to be able to build a personal relationship with each and every one of your students? And with all your colleagues at the university.? And all the staff at the local supermarket? And all the people who work to send you packages from Amazon? And ?. > > That?s to say, there are reasons why humans have added ?anonymous? interactions to the personal and interpersonal relationship that (as you acknowledge) we still build and maintain. > > Martin > > > >> On Apr 28, 2020, at 10:13 PM, Greg Thompson > wrote: >> >> Helena, >> >> It sounds like you are describing the commodity fetish. The labor of the professor is no longer seen as their own production. Instead it is seen that the professor simply draws from some "body of knowledge" or a credential that has a particular (monetary) value. As with any good (i.e., bad) commodity relation, even the exchange relations between buyer and seller (professor and student) are hidden and the professor is merely a conduit to that valuable knowledge or credential. What the professor has to offer is MONETIZED, perhaps we might say that the professor themself is monetized, even BRANDED (take a look at the web pages of young faculty and you'll see how important "brand yourself" has become in the academy). The professor and her work are understood in terms of market value, return on investment, earning potential of students. >> >> Students today understand their task as being a good consumer; to get at least equal value from professors as they pay in tuition. (granted much of this is via a credential, but the professors are a big part of what stands behind the university's credential). You'll hear students frequently complain (rightly so) about how much they are paying for their education followed by some specific complaint about a professor. >> >> This is all part of a larger system in which this is understood as how the world works. You get what you pay for. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. And so on. Can we blame students for wanting to know what they are going to "get" for the money that they pay for college, and note that this gets even more intense during hard economic times, of which we are deep into right this moment (although the fear usually takes a semester or two before people start fleeing the humanities and the social sciences to business, engineering, computer science, or pre-anything). >> >> (and Lave and Mcdermott's article on Estranged Labor Learning might be worth revisiting in this regard?) >> >> In addition to Marx's commodity fetish, a related and interesting way to think of this is in terms of Marcel Mauss' notion of gift vs. exchange economy (if you'll allow me to oversimplify a bit). The main difference is that an exchange economy involves transactions that are always calculated to be of exactly equal value. The $13 pair of shoes I buy at the store are worth EXACTLY $13. Each party to the transaction gets their "money's worth". Sounds great right? Fair, to be sure. Except it means that there is no relationship established between the parties. After the exchange, the parties no longer have any meaningful relationship. In contrast, a gifting relationship is not responded in kind (at least not initially). As Mary Douglas says in her intro to Mauss' book The Gift, "there are no free gifts". Note that this is a very different statement from Milton Friedman's "there ain't no such thing as a free lunch". Douglas means that the gift creates a sense of obligation and thus a relationship. As much as we might understand this in intimate spaces, as Americans in public spaces all we know are exchange relationships (people reject healthcare for all b.c. "why should I have to pay for healthcare for someone else", ditto for education (yes, there is a movement in the US to get rid of public education!)). This is the logic behind the out-of-hand rejection of socialism - it does not make sense in the logic of exchange. And, of course, taxes are justified only in as much as you "get" something for it (roads, police, fire department, public transport, etc.) and increasingly tax dollars are getting hyper-localized so that you get precisely what you pay for and don't pay a dime more (e.g., gated communities with private police force, fire dept, etc). >> >> Interestingly I just today was privilege to hear a colleague present about his work in Papua New Guinea (the island of Missima, in the Massim region - the site of the Kula ring made famous to Westerners by Malinowski - and yes, the Kula ring still operates today). He noted that Missimans can't understand why Americans (and other Westerners) are so interested in engaging in exchanges that cut ties (e.g., buying things from them and then running off). And when Missimans do try to engage in gifting relationships with Americans, they are struck by how quickly the Americans run off, never to return (what idiots those Americans are!). It is absolutely baffling to them since they spend their days building relationships with others. Why would someone not want relationships with others? >> >> Can we perhaps understand their bafflement? >> >> And what, then, is human development within a world where relations of exchange are everything? (and thankfully, it isn't total, we Americans still view kin relations as something more than an exchange relation). >> >> Anyway, that's at least two times two cents too much. And terribly inchoate. Far too "off the cuff". Apologies. >> >> -greg >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 11:19 AM Helena Worthen > wrote: >> thanks! >> >> Helena Worthen >> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >> >> >> >> >>> On Apr 27, 2020, at 7:48 PM, Andy Blunden > wrote: >>> >>> How about this Helena?: >>> "Time is the room of human development. A man who has no free time to dispose of, whose whole lifetime, apart from the mere physical interruptions by sleep, meals, and so forth, is absorbed by his labour for the capitalist, is less than a beast of burden. He is a mere machine for producing Foreign Wealth, broken in body and brutalized in mind. Yet the whole history of modern industry shows that capital, if not checked, will recklessly and ruthlessly work to cast down the whole working class to this utmost state of degradation." >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1865/value-price-profit/ch03.htm__;!!Mih3wA!WMiwIrj0aKh8kp3SGKwBvclBmZk6gTThyyIOzQAAzRfBK1CIpbBjMxzz4gUQ8splt8bNMw$ >>> Andy Blunden >>> Hegel for Social Movements >>> Home Page >>> On 28/04/2020 5:23 am, Helena Worthen wrote: >>>> Andy?s paper has basically 4 parts. One a flyby overview of the history of the US ? this is where the majority of criticisms by people I know are showing up because people have different versions of that history. Then the argument that with the US going down as one of the poles of global leadership. My friends and family agree with this and are all, as Americans, offering examples of how they have experienced this. Andy notes that there is an empty spot at the top that hasn?t been taken yet. Then comes his COVID-19 point, that this is a global moment in which the whole world is participating. Most of the xmca discussion has been about that so far, if I?m not mistaken. And finally a challenge to foresee what we will learn from this experience. >>>> >>>> OK, now trying to forsee what we can learn is what I?m doing. So here is my question, appropriate for this list since we are all interested in education. I found myself writing the following, as part of describing the way a workforce can be intentionally divided into feuding packs of enemies so that we can?t take action in solidarity. We?re referring to ?the distortions of human development under capitalism? and say that ?we see this in its sharpest form in the for-profit part of the higher education industry. We have to look past the distortion to find the original, human connection?.? >>>> >>>> One of our readers asks where this concept came from. I don?t remember!! It makes sense, though, doesn?t? Anyone have any idea where it came from? So far I?m saying, >>>> >>>> The concept of ?distortions of human development under capitalism? depends on looking at human development as occurring within a social, historical and cultural framework ? not just the development of individuals on their own or within a family or even a school, but within a society. Specifically we mean psychological and cognitive disabilities ranging from lack of empathy, envy, despair, alienation and bullying to obesity, eating disorders and stress-related auto-immune illness. >>>> >>>> Thanks ? H >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Helena Worthen >>>> h elenaworthen@gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Apr 27, 2020, at 9:29 AM, Helena Worthen > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I have been circulating Andy?s paper among close friends and family to generate discussion. What is mostly coming back is confirmation of the general arc, with examples from personal experience, but some disagreement about cause. These are ?inside? views ? meaning, people who are US citizens talking about us, so these are experiences of the passing of an era and what they look like from inside. >>>>> >>>>> About a year ago I realized that, for better or worse, I identify as ?an American.? And I don?t mean North American. >>>>> >>>>> Chris Appy?s book, American Reckoning, is a pretty good history that takes us from the 1940s up to Obama and tracks the hole we fell into with the Vietnam War. For people of my generation (BA 1965 ? and I mention that date rather than when I was born because 1965 connects to the draft, the lottery, the anti-war demonstrations, the asssinations, etc etc) the story told with the Vietnam War in the foreground connects very tightly to lived experience. >>>>> >>>>> Helena Worthen >>>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Apr 22, 2020, at 4:30 AM, Andy Blunden > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/American-Century.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!WMiwIrj0aKh8kp3SGKwBvclBmZk6gTThyyIOzQAAzRfBK1CIpbBjMxzz4gUQ8srorTOyhQ$ [ethicalpolitics.org] >>>>>> Andy >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Andy Blunden >>>>>> Hegel for Social Movements [brill.com] >>>>>> Home Page [ethicalpolitics.org] >>>> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200429/df1212bf/attachment.html From hshonerd@gmail.com Wed Apr 29 09:41:40 2020 From: hshonerd@gmail.com (HENRY SHONERD) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 10:41:40 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Love's In Need of Lean on Me In-Reply-To: References: <7C52C1D6-55E1-49F5-8B25-70EF49C4BC02@gmail.com> Message-ID: The second version is soooo produced, so much ?handling". The first so simple, authentic, coming from someone on the firing line. If a white person is going to appropriate a Black cultural artifact, surely the doctor does it right. I first heard Stevie as Little Stevie Wonder. So creative, constantly reinventing his song but always Stevie. I only learned he wrote ?Lean on Me? late in his life, not long before he died really. Stay well, David > On Apr 28, 2020, at 7:37 PM, David Kellogg wrote: > > No, shared property is always better, Henry, particularly where "property" is to be understood as meaning something like "quality" rather than mere right of possession. > > As usual, you got it right away (it took me a while to work it out). I think that's because you always focus on the postive content. What strikes me is the dark warnings, the force of evil, the precautionary measures, and the need to fight back. But the real "message", to the extent that art has a message mortals understand, lies beyond both the form and the content. > > The specific form in which genre--always a shared property--is internalized is as not as a genre but as an indefinitely creative form of imagination we can call the repertoire. But this repertoire, that feeling that helps Stevie merge the two songs so that you only notice the seam if you know both songs by heart, is always an inner property tied "by a thousand strands and ten thousand threads" (as we say in Chinese), "intertwined and then interwoven" (as we say in Russian) to shared property. > > It's not about race, although it does have something to do with class (in both senses of the word). Listen to the way this doctor sings the song: > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qCKrDJ5OL8__;!!Mih3wA!TsXJv3mvGbZpciU-ZB8aeVKIl8dDvUSGcvr5K8dMsOryEm5ZQKDzuWXhXhcMRQLwcQlNLQ$ > > Yeah, I know. He sounds like a white dude--he doesn't collapse the consonants and he pronounces "strong" without the /sh/ sound that Stevie uses. But no one can say he doesn't sing with class. > > Compare to the way this black guy in New Orleans does it: > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiouJsnYytI__;!!Mih3wA!TsXJv3mvGbZpciU-ZB8aeVKIl8dDvUSGcvr5K8dMsOryEm5ZQKDzuWXhXhcMRQIHGzrv1g$ > > See, that one just doesn't do it. It's not just because of the switch from "I'm gonna need" to "you're gonna need" and from "I just might have a problem you'd understand" to "you just might have a problem I'd understand". > > I just don't think you can treat this tune like a travel info-mercial. The change of message does, however, better reflect the message of the performance sponsors, Bill and Melinda Gates. > > David Kellogg > Sangmyung University > > New Article: Ruqaiya Hasan, in memoriam: A manual and a manifesto. > Outlines, Spring 2020 https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238/167607__;!!Mih3wA!TsXJv3mvGbZpciU-ZB8aeVKIl8dDvUSGcvr5K8dMsOryEm5ZQKDzuWXhXhcMRQJ2UZoFzw$ > > New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!TsXJv3mvGbZpciU-ZB8aeVKIl8dDvUSGcvr5K8dMsOryEm5ZQKDzuWXhXhcMRQL3zxxqUw$ > > > On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 9:50 AM HENRY SHONERD > wrote: > David, > > I wrote some ideas in response to your post below, then, as I ofen do, decided to forego the anxiety of posting it to the entire XMCA listserv. Here is some inchoate thinking/feeling that I will send to you off-line: > > Am I wrong? What is love, if not reciprocity? At any scale, iove is revolutionary. A parasite takes from its host and gives nothing in return. Work gives meaning to life and is a way to make a living. Love is freely given: It doesn?t say I give so that you will give back, but a lopsided giving and taking demeans the giver and the taker. At least say thank you. From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. > > Stay well > Henry > > >> On Apr 23, 2020, at 3:15 PM, David Kellogg > wrote: >> >> You can lean on me, Anthony. I was, as you guessed, being pretty critical of the video you sent around: I think Wertsch hasn't even got his Hayden White right (Hayden White was drawing on a study of medieval literature and he argued that the narrative is not so much memory as moral iinstruction). But most of the moral instruction (not entertainment) I intended is there in the tune, which is from the recent "Home Alone" concert which Lady Gaga curated over Zoom. >> >> As you probably heard, Stevie Wonder is mashing up a song from the late great Bill Withers that goes like this: >> >> You just call on me, Brother, when you need a hand >> We all need somebody to lean on >> I just might have a problem that you'll understand >> We all need somebody to lean on >> >> Interestingly, a lot of people can't follow that switch. Even my wife argues that it makes the idea of mutuality transactional--the song says that you can lean on me if and only if I can then lean on you, which makes it a covert form of exchange. So there are some versions that switch the pronouns and sing "You just might have a problem that I'll understand" which makes it coherent narrative, but entirely unidirectional. >> >> But there's a real moral message which makes it a Hayden White type narrative. It's not just about mutuality. It's about this: >> >> Good morn or evening friends >> Here's your friendly announcer >> I have serious news to pass on to every-body >> What I'm about to say >> Could mean the world's disaster >> Could change your joy and laughter to tears and pain >> >> It's that >> Love's in need of love today >> Don't delay >> Send yours in right away >> Hate's goin' round >> Breaking many hearts >> Stop it please >> Before it's gone too far >> >> The force of evil plans >> To make you its possession >> And it will if we let it >> Destroy everybody >> We all must take >> Precautionary measures >> If love and peace you treasure >> Then you'll hear me when I say >> >> Love's in need of love today >> love's in need of love today >> Don't delay don't delay >> Send yours in right away >> >> See what I mean? It's not really a narrative. It's not even two narratives spliced together. It's repertoire: the kind of thing a great musician carries around in his or her head. But that head carries that repertoire not just because it leans on ten thousand hours of gruelling practice (pace Malcolm Gladwell). That repertoire is a subset of meaning potential winnowed (not "produced") by a thousand years of turbulent history (which is what Hayden White REALLY said), That's what we are seeing now. >> >> David Kellogg >> Sangmyung University >> >> Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational action research' in Mind Culture and Activity >> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847__;!!Mih3wA!TsXJv3mvGbZpciU-ZB8aeVKIl8dDvUSGcvr5K8dMsOryEm5ZQKDzuWXhXhcMRQKNDr_hDg$ [tandfonline.com] >> >> Some free e-prints available at: >> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080*10749039.2020.1745847__;Lw!!Mih3wA!TsXJv3mvGbZpciU-ZB8aeVKIl8dDvUSGcvr5K8dMsOryEm5ZQKDzuWXhXhcMRQJao68ehQ$ [tandfonline.com] >> >> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" >> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!TsXJv3mvGbZpciU-ZB8aeVKIl8dDvUSGcvr5K8dMsOryEm5ZQKDzuWXhXhcMRQL3zxxqUw$ [springer.com] >> >> >> On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 3:25 AM Anthony Barra > wrote: >> Thank you. In this post, David provides value for me by including a video I might enjoy, and even greater value to the group by writing three paragraphs they will understand. >> >> I will reread a few times and try to take what I can from them. >> >> Thanks again ~ >> Anthony >> >> >> >> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 7:41 AM David Kellogg > wrote: >> Anthony: >> >> Wertsch believes that governments have very limited power to create narratives: they can only "produce" narratives that people will "consume", never mind that this production and consumption involves neither fixed nor variable capital and exchanges neither use nor exchange value, and he feels no need whatsoever to offer us a theory (beyond "my side bias", which is nothing but a Piagetian egocentrism that dare not speak its name) about why one culture should prefer this narrative and another should prefer that one. An example he gives is that the US Communist Party never in its history, which is now over a century long, was able to produce a narrative that American workers wanted to consume. >> >> Except that whole generations of terror, state and private, were manifestly required to bring about this happy result: race riots, night-riding, lynching, and massacres. Even then HUAC and McCarthy were required to consolidate it. Ethel Rosenberg was practically burnt at the stake; Paul Robeson practically driven to suicide. .And still you have weird little kids like me, born the child of a Manhattan Project scientist, who dares to believe all the things that so surprise and shock Wertsch: that the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was an unconscionable war crime whose only real purpose was to scare the USSR away from China and Korea (where a huge proportion of the population had to be murdered less they "consume" the Communist "narrative"). I believed these things not because of a narrative template, but simply because they fit perfectly with facts I grew up knowing. Now that I live here I know these things are true and undeniable, the way that Auschwitz and Birkenau cannot be denied. >> >> I think that Wertsch's powers of decentration fail him right at the crucial moment: his very notion of narrative as a basis of human culture is ethocentric, because it is based on the language variables that Han Hui-jeong and I called SELF: Subjects, Expectancy of nominal bias, Linearity of sentences along SVO lines, and the Focalizing voice that passes judgement at the end of the story. These are not properties of culture, as Wertsch seems to think, they are merely properties of the English language. Similarly, "narrative" is simply an individual realization of a particular autobiographical genre, quite different to and alien from the way that most people on this planet experience the episodes of their lives. And even genre is, despite the work of J.R. Martin, not an over-arching category which all discourse semantics must realize: genre is a rather fusty and fixed category of something much larger we can call meaning potential. It is much easier to explain my own beliefs and even the productions of Korean children as mash-ups of a growing repertoire of genres, similar to repertoires of music: classical, folk, K-pop and R&B. >> >> (Did you catch Stevie Wonder's mash-up of "Lean on Me" and "Love's in Need of Love Today"? https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vgfBJhlEEo__;!!Mih3wA!TsXJv3mvGbZpciU-ZB8aeVKIl8dDvUSGcvr5K8dMsOryEm5ZQKDzuWXhXhcMRQJL3opsrw$ [youtube.com] Is it narrative or repertoire?) >> >> David Kellogg >> Sangmyung University >> >> Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of Critical Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational action research' in Mind Culture and Activity >> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847__;!!Mih3wA!TsXJv3mvGbZpciU-ZB8aeVKIl8dDvUSGcvr5K8dMsOryEm5ZQKDzuWXhXhcMRQKNDr_hDg$ [tandfonline.com] >> >> Some free e-prints available at: >> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080*10749039.2020.1745847__;Lw!!Mih3wA!TsXJv3mvGbZpciU-ZB8aeVKIl8dDvUSGcvr5K8dMsOryEm5ZQKDzuWXhXhcMRQJao68ehQ$ [tandfonline.com] >> >> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" >> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!TsXJv3mvGbZpciU-ZB8aeVKIl8dDvUSGcvr5K8dMsOryEm5ZQKDzuWXhXhcMRQL3zxxqUw$ [springer.com] > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200429/00d25403/attachment.html From bjones@ucsd.edu Wed Apr 29 09:58:24 2020 From: bjones@ucsd.edu (Bruce Jones) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:58:24 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Re change of email address In-Reply-To: <1af9f8c0.266a.171c28d01ba.Webtop.99@btinternet.com> References: <85fc2557-3931-47ff-12d4-267e9281a955@marxists.org> <7F106666-4E69-4606-AAB0-10EE9E7A733D@gmail.com> <255B3664-FD24-4025-9854-0B5D8EFA2962@gmail.com> <1c1c059f-f9a9-3606-ae1c-56d0626dd7e6@marxists.org> <1af9f8c0.266a.171c28d01ba.Webtop.99@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <55d27ae1-1f31-87eb-2642-a610a9010dac@ucsd.edu> On 4/28/20 1:49 PM, Shirley Franklin wrote: > > Sorry to bother everyone with this but > > > I would be grateful if the administrator of this list would change my > email address from ... to ... > > It is unclear how we are supposed to do this. All problems and requests for changes should be mailed to xmca-l-owner@ucsd.edu Posting them to the list is to hope I see them there :-) -- Bruce Jones Sys Admin, LCHC bjones@ucsd.edu 619-823-8281 -- From greg.a.thompson@gmail.com Wed Apr 29 10:36:38 2020 From: greg.a.thompson@gmail.com (Greg Thompson) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 11:36:38 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: As of 2020, the American Century is Over In-Reply-To: References: <85fc2557-3931-47ff-12d4-267e9281a955@marxists.org> <7F106666-4E69-4606-AAB0-10EE9E7A733D@gmail.com> <255B3664-FD24-4025-9854-0B5D8EFA2962@gmail.com> <1c1c059f-f9a9-3606-ae1c-56d0626dd7e6@marxists.org> <4BF1F09B-8C62-4B6B-A573-27F80EDBF7D4@gmail.com> Message-ID: Martin, Yes, you point to a valid concern: total hegemony of intimate relationships on a universal scale would be a problem. But that wasn't exactly my point (unclear as it was). (I don't entirely agree with you - I'd suggest that some kind of universal connection, perhaps a universal kinship, would be important for a more humane world, but that is not the same as a close meaningful relationship with every single human being that we encounter). My point was about the problematic nature of the hegemony of exchange-based relations (i.e. the capitalist relation in which "what value can I get from you" - you might call it "The Art of the Deal"!). At the very least, might you agree that it is a problem if we see ALL human relationships in these terms? -greg On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 8:56 AM Martin Packer wrote: > Hi Greg, > > Are you suggesting that you would like to be able to build a personal > relationship with each and every one of your students? And with all your > colleagues at the university.? And all the staff at the local supermarket? > And all the people who work to send you packages from Amazon? And ?. > > That?s to say, there are reasons why humans have added ?anonymous? > interactions to the personal and interpersonal relationship that (as you > acknowledge) we still build and maintain. > > Martin > > > > On Apr 28, 2020, at 10:13 PM, Greg Thompson > wrote: > > Helena, > > It sounds like you are describing the commodity fetish. The labor of the > professor is no longer seen as their own production. Instead it is seen > that the professor simply draws from some "body of knowledge" or a > credential that has a particular (monetary) value. As with any good (i.e., > bad) commodity relation, even the exchange relations between buyer and > seller (professor and student) are hidden and the professor is merely a > conduit to that valuable knowledge or credential. What the professor has to > offer is MONETIZED, perhaps we might say that the professor themself is > monetized, even BRANDED (take a look at the web pages of young faculty and > you'll see how important "brand yourself" has become in the academy). The > professor and her work are understood in terms of market value, return on > investment, earning potential of students. > > Students today understand their task as being a good consumer; to get at > least equal value from professors as they pay in tuition. (granted much of > this is via a credential, but the professors are a big part of what stands > behind the university's credential). You'll hear students frequently > complain (rightly so) about how much they are paying for their education > followed by some specific complaint about a professor. > > This is all part of a larger system in which this is understood as how the > world works. You get what you pay for. There ain't no such thing as a free > lunch. And so on. Can we blame students for wanting to know what they are > going to "get" for the money that they pay for college, and note that this > gets even more intense during hard economic times, of which we are deep > into right this moment (although the fear usually takes a semester or two > before people start fleeing the humanities and the social sciences to > business, engineering, computer science, or pre-anything). > > (and Lave and Mcdermott's article on Estranged Labor Learning might be > worth revisiting in this regard?) > > In addition to Marx's commodity fetish, a related and interesting way to > think of this is in terms of Marcel Mauss' notion of gift vs. exchange > economy (if you'll allow me to oversimplify a bit). The main difference > is that an exchange economy involves transactions that are always > calculated to be of exactly equal value. The $13 pair of shoes I buy at the > store are worth EXACTLY $13. Each party to the transaction gets their > "money's worth". Sounds great right? Fair, to be sure. Except it means that > there is no relationship established between the parties. After the > exchange, the parties no longer have any meaningful relationship. In > contrast, a gifting relationship is not responded in kind (at least not > initially). As Mary Douglas says in her intro to Mauss' book The Gift, > "there are no free gifts". Note that this is a very different statement > from Milton Friedman's "there ain't no such thing as a free lunch". Douglas > means that the gift creates a sense of obligation and thus a relationship. > As much as we might understand this in intimate spaces, as Americans in > public spaces all we know are exchange relationships (people reject > healthcare for all b.c. "why should I have to pay for healthcare for > someone else", ditto for education (yes, there is a movement in the US to > get rid of public education!)). This is the logic behind the out-of-hand > rejection of socialism - it does not make sense in the logic of exchange. > And, of course, taxes are justified only in as much as you "get" something > for it (roads, police, fire department, public transport, etc.) and > increasingly tax dollars are getting hyper-localized so that you get > precisely what you pay for and don't pay a dime more (e.g., gated > communities with private police force, fire dept, etc). > > Interestingly I just today was privilege to hear a colleague present about > his work in Papua New Guinea (the island of Missima, in the Massim region - > the site of the Kula ring made famous to Westerners by Malinowski - and > yes, the Kula ring still operates today). He noted that Missimans can't > understand why Americans (and other Westerners) are so interested in > engaging in exchanges that cut ties (e.g., buying things from them and then > running off). And when Missimans do try to engage in gifting relationships > with Americans, they are struck by how quickly the Americans run off, never > to return (what idiots those Americans are!). It is absolutely baffling to > them since they spend their days building relationships with others. Why > would someone not want relationships with others? > > Can we perhaps understand their bafflement? > > And what, then, is human development within a world where relations of > exchange are everything? (and thankfully, it isn't total, we Americans > still view kin relations as something more than an exchange relation). > > Anyway, that's at least two times two cents too much. And terribly > inchoate. Far too "off the cuff". Apologies. > > -greg > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 11:19 AM Helena Worthen > wrote: > >> thanks! >> >> Helena Worthen >> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >> >> >> >> >> >> On Apr 27, 2020, at 7:48 PM, Andy Blunden wrote: >> >> How about this Helena?: >> >> "Time is the room of human development. A man who has no free time to >> dispose of, whose whole lifetime, apart from the mere physical >> interruptions by sleep, meals, and so forth, is absorbed by his labour for >> the capitalist, is less than a beast of burden. He is a mere machine for >> producing Foreign Wealth, broken in body and brutalized in mind. Yet the >> whole history of modern industry shows that capital, if not checked, will >> recklessly and ruthlessly work to cast down the whole working class to this >> utmost state of degradation." >> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1865/value-price-profit/ch03.htm__;!!Mih3wA!TDyQMrjogWXxYx2zksntX2j9lAxaTiP-7h_XkcdQobPlYUCHGJHShH1D5sZQtoJpFHDMNw$ >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *Andy Blunden* >> Hegel for Social Movements >> >> Home Page >> >> On 28/04/2020 5:23 am, Helena Worthen wrote: >> >> Andy?s paper has basically 4 parts. One a flyby overview of the history >> of the US ? this is where the majority of criticisms by people I know are >> showing up because people have different versions of that history. Then the >> argument that with the US going down as one of the poles of global >> leadership. My friends and family agree with this and are all, as >> Americans, offering examples of how they have experienced this. Andy notes >> that there is an empty spot at the top that hasn?t been taken yet. Then >> comes his COVID-19 point, that this is a global moment in which the whole >> world is participating. Most of the xmca discussion has been about that so >> far, if I?m not mistaken. And finally a challenge to foresee what we will >> learn from this experience. >> >> OK, now trying to forsee what we can learn is what I?m doing. So here is >> my question, appropriate for this list since we are all interested in >> education. I found myself writing the following, as part of describing the >> way a workforce can be intentionally divided into feuding packs of enemies >> so that we can?t take action in solidarity. We?re referring to ?the >> distortions of human development under capitalism? and say that ?we see >> this in its sharpest form in the for-profit part of the higher education >> industry. We have to look past the distortion to find the original, human >> connection?.? >> >> One of our readers asks where this concept came from. I don?t remember!! >> It makes sense, though, doesn?t? Anyone have any idea where it came from? >> So far I?m saying, >> >> The concept of ?distortions of human development under capitalism? >> depends on looking at human development as occurring within a social, >> historical and cultural framework ? not just the development of individuals >> on their own or within a family or even a school, but within a society. >> Specifically we mean psychological and cognitive disabilities ranging from >> lack of empathy, envy, despair, alienation and bullying to obesity, eating >> disorders and stress-related auto-immune illness. >> >> Thanks ? H >> >> >> >> >> Helena Worthen >> h >> >> elenaworthen@gmail.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Apr 27, 2020, at 9:29 AM, Helena Worthen >> wrote: >> >> I have been circulating Andy?s paper among close friends and family to >> generate discussion. What is mostly coming back is confirmation of the >> general arc, with examples from personal experience, but some disagreement >> about cause. These are ?inside? views ? meaning, people who are US citizens >> talking about us, so these are experiences of the passing of an era and >> what they look like from inside. >> >> About a year ago I realized that, for better or worse, I identify as ?an >> American.? And I don?t mean North American. >> >> Chris Appy?s book, *American Reckoning*, is a pretty good history that >> takes us from the 1940s up to Obama and tracks the hole we fell into with >> the Vietnam War. For people of my generation (BA 1965 ? and I mention that >> date rather than when I was born because 1965 connects to the draft, the >> lottery, the anti-war demonstrations, the asssinations, etc etc) the story >> told with the Vietnam War in the foreground connects very tightly to lived >> experience. >> >> Helena Worthen >> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >> >> >> >> >> >> On Apr 22, 2020, at 4:30 AM, Andy Blunden wrote: >> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/American-Century.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!TDyQMrjogWXxYx2zksntX2j9lAxaTiP-7h_XkcdQobPlYUCHGJHShH1D5sZQtoJpdJqoVQ$ >> [ethicalpolitics.org] >> >> >> Andy >> -- >> ------------------------------ >> *Andy Blunden* >> Hegel for Social Movements [brill.com] >> >> Home Page [ethicalpolitics.org] >> >> >> >> >> >> > -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!TDyQMrjogWXxYx2zksntX2j9lAxaTiP-7h_XkcdQobPlYUCHGJHShH1D5sZQtoIggeRMTA$ https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!TDyQMrjogWXxYx2zksntX2j9lAxaTiP-7h_XkcdQobPlYUCHGJHShH1D5sZQtoIB7qd1oA$ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200429/3046e99c/attachment.html From mpacker@cantab.net Wed Apr 29 11:24:34 2020 From: mpacker@cantab.net (Martin Packer) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 13:24:34 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: As of 2020, the American Century is Over In-Reply-To: <6EA7437D-09DC-4B52-B00B-218E674D1B85@gmail.com> References: <85fc2557-3931-47ff-12d4-267e9281a955@marxists.org> <7F106666-4E69-4606-AAB0-10EE9E7A733D@gmail.com> <255B3664-FD24-4025-9854-0B5D8EFA2962@gmail.com> <1c1c059f-f9a9-3606-ae1c-56d0626dd7e6@marxists.org> <4BF1F09B-8C62-4B6B-A573-27F80EDBF7D4@gmail.com> <6EA7437D-09DC-4B52-B00B-218E674D1B85@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8BB24F8E-61F8-4181-B071-CC8AB20CF0A9@cantab.net> My point was about the problematic nature of the hegemony of exchange-based relations (i.e. the capitalist relation in which "what value can I get from you" - you might call it "The Art of the Deal"!). At the very least, might you agree that it is a problem if we see ALL human relationships in these terms? I don?t think it could ever happen, Greg. So I?m not going to worry about it. I do seem to be disagreeing with everyone on xmca these days! Perhaps it?s my way of coping. Perhaps it?s because I think that if there was ever a time for thinking things through carefully it is now. Surely impersonal anonymous kinds of interactions must have begun as soon as anything large enough to be called a city came into existence. I?m not a big fan of Dunbar?s number, but surely there are limits to the number of people with whom one can have an personal relationship, and those limits were exceeded at least 6,000 years ago. And is xmca a place of personal relationships? I have met in person less than 5 people on this list, I think. That?s to say, we make constant, fruitful and enjoyable use of impersonal relationships, including here. I for one wouldn?t wish to return to a time when everyone lived in villages of less than 150 people. And what I remember from Marx is that the original sin of capitalism is alienation of people not from one another but from their own labor. (Though the former may be one of the consequences of the latter.) Of course exploitation didn?t start with capitalism either, though wage labor under capitalism is a frighteningly efficient kind of exploitation. But if I had been born in feudal times I might have been laboring for the lord of the manor, who probably didn?t know me by name. If born in Roman times I might have been a slave, working for the lady of the villa. I appreciate that we are all experiencing a certain nostalgia for the good old days, of perhaps 4 months ago. And that those of us in lockdown are craving genuine personal interaction. But I?m not convinced that there ever was a golden age, a time when development was not distorted and people were not exploited. It is true that Pleistocene hunter-gatherers seem to have had a face-to-face kind of community in which collaboration and sharing were central. But even they practiced infanticide and left their old behind when they moved to a new camp. I don?t think I would have lasted then as long as I have now. Martin > On Apr 29, 2020, at 11:41 AM, Helena Worthen wrote: > > Greg, I think you are drawing attention to one of the consequences of the distortion of human development under capitalism. If that?s what you mean, then yes, the phenomenon of relationships that dead-end when a commodity exchange has taken place, rather than moving in a circle of reciprocal contribution, would be an example. > > A small relatively new private music school near us apparently has not been paying either its state unemployment insurance payroll taxes or making its equivalent contribution to a special fund set up for non-profits. Now, with the lockdown, it is having to deal with reimbursing the state for unemployment claims by its laid-off teachers. If you draw the circle of reciprocal contribution around this situation, look at what gets linked up. Students, their families, teachers, the management of the school, the enormous Employment Development Department at the state level, the legislature?the circle is gigantic, elements of it way beyond the horizon of what most people linked up in it imagine. > > In this case, the ?cut and run? took place at the point where the Board of the school decided somehow to assume they could risk taking on the obligation of paying unemployment benefits rather than pay the payroll tax. Easy to do ? it?s a small non-profit and this is something that gets easily overlooked by inexperienced managers. > > Nevertheless, the distortion that I?m thinking of ? the fear, anger and resentment that pile up when laid-off teachers apply for UI benefits? would be a consequence of capitalism. > > Helena Worthen > h elenaworthen@gmail.com > > > > > > > >> On Apr 29, 2020, at 7:53 AM, Martin Packer > wrote: >> >> Hi Greg, >> >> Are you suggesting that you would like to be able to build a personal relationship with each and every one of your students? And with all your colleagues at the university.? And all the staff at the local supermarket? And all the people who work to send you packages from Amazon? And ?. >> >> That?s to say, there are reasons why humans have added ?anonymous? interactions to the personal and interpersonal relationship that (as you acknowledge) we still build and maintain. >> >> Martin >> >> >> >>> On Apr 28, 2020, at 10:13 PM, Greg Thompson > wrote: >>> >>> Helena, >>> >>> It sounds like you are describing the commodity fetish. The labor of the professor is no longer seen as their own production. Instead it is seen that the professor simply draws from some "body of knowledge" or a credential that has a particular (monetary) value. As with any good (i.e., bad) commodity relation, even the exchange relations between buyer and seller (professor and student) are hidden and the professor is merely a conduit to that valuable knowledge or credential. What the professor has to offer is MONETIZED, perhaps we might say that the professor themself is monetized, even BRANDED (take a look at the web pages of young faculty and you'll see how important "brand yourself" has become in the academy). The professor and her work are understood in terms of market value, return on investment, earning potential of students. >>> >>> Students today understand their task as being a good consumer; to get at least equal value from professors as they pay in tuition. (granted much of this is via a credential, but the professors are a big part of what stands behind the university's credential). You'll hear students frequently complain (rightly so) about how much they are paying for their education followed by some specific complaint about a professor. >>> >>> This is all part of a larger system in which this is understood as how the world works. You get what you pay for. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. And so on. Can we blame students for wanting to know what they are going to "get" for the money that they pay for college, and note that this gets even more intense during hard economic times, of which we are deep into right this moment (although the fear usually takes a semester or two before people start fleeing the humanities and the social sciences to business, engineering, computer science, or pre-anything). >>> >>> (and Lave and Mcdermott's article on Estranged Labor Learning might be worth revisiting in this regard?) >>> >>> In addition to Marx's commodity fetish, a related and interesting way to think of this is in terms of Marcel Mauss' notion of gift vs. exchange economy (if you'll allow me to oversimplify a bit). The main difference is that an exchange economy involves transactions that are always calculated to be of exactly equal value. The $13 pair of shoes I buy at the store are worth EXACTLY $13. Each party to the transaction gets their "money's worth". Sounds great right? Fair, to be sure. Except it means that there is no relationship established between the parties. After the exchange, the parties no longer have any meaningful relationship. In contrast, a gifting relationship is not responded in kind (at least not initially). As Mary Douglas says in her intro to Mauss' book The Gift, "there are no free gifts". Note that this is a very different statement from Milton Friedman's "there ain't no such thing as a free lunch". Douglas means that the gift creates a sense of obligation and thus a relationship. As much as we might understand this in intimate spaces, as Americans in public spaces all we know are exchange relationships (people reject healthcare for all b.c. "why should I have to pay for healthcare for someone else", ditto for education (yes, there is a movement in the US to get rid of public education!)). This is the logic behind the out-of-hand rejection of socialism - it does not make sense in the logic of exchange. And, of course, taxes are justified only in as much as you "get" something for it (roads, police, fire department, public transport, etc.) and increasingly tax dollars are getting hyper-localized so that you get precisely what you pay for and don't pay a dime more (e.g., gated communities with private police force, fire dept, etc). >>> >>> Interestingly I just today was privilege to hear a colleague present about his work in Papua New Guinea (the island of Missima, in the Massim region - the site of the Kula ring made famous to Westerners by Malinowski - and yes, the Kula ring still operates today). He noted that Missimans can't understand why Americans (and other Westerners) are so interested in engaging in exchanges that cut ties (e.g., buying things from them and then running off). And when Missimans do try to engage in gifting relationships with Americans, they are struck by how quickly the Americans run off, never to return (what idiots those Americans are!). It is absolutely baffling to them since they spend their days building relationships with others. Why would someone not want relationships with others? >>> >>> Can we perhaps understand their bafflement? >>> >>> And what, then, is human development within a world where relations of exchange are everything? (and thankfully, it isn't total, we Americans still view kin relations as something more than an exchange relation). >>> >>> Anyway, that's at least two times two cents too much. And terribly inchoate. Far too "off the cuff". Apologies. >>> >>> -greg >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 11:19 AM Helena Worthen > wrote: >>> thanks! >>> >>> Helena Worthen >>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Apr 27, 2020, at 7:48 PM, Andy Blunden > wrote: >>>> >>>> How about this Helena?: >>>> "Time is the room of human development. A man who has no free time to dispose of, whose whole lifetime, apart from the mere physical interruptions by sleep, meals, and so forth, is absorbed by his labour for the capitalist, is less than a beast of burden. He is a mere machine for producing Foreign Wealth, broken in body and brutalized in mind. Yet the whole history of modern industry shows that capital, if not checked, will recklessly and ruthlessly work to cast down the whole working class to this utmost state of degradation." >>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1865/value-price-profit/ch03.htm__;!!Mih3wA!RM9jX_pUJZY491hM050AZdPNEtJg0x2eVXZRPCFisN1vR-O5Ds_8b2-Qb7u9_7_BxgUcng$ >>>> Andy Blunden >>>> Hegel for Social Movements >>>> Home Page >>>> On 28/04/2020 5:23 am, Helena Worthen wrote: >>>>> Andy?s paper has basically 4 parts. One a flyby overview of the history of the US ? this is where the majority of criticisms by people I know are showing up because people have different versions of that history. Then the argument that with the US going down as one of the poles of global leadership. My friends and family agree with this and are all, as Americans, offering examples of how they have experienced this. Andy notes that there is an empty spot at the top that hasn?t been taken yet. Then comes his COVID-19 point, that this is a global moment in which the whole world is participating. Most of the xmca discussion has been about that so far, if I?m not mistaken. And finally a challenge to foresee what we will learn from this experience. >>>>> >>>>> OK, now trying to forsee what we can learn is what I?m doing. So here is my question, appropriate for this list since we are all interested in education. I found myself writing the following, as part of describing the way a workforce can be intentionally divided into feuding packs of enemies so that we can?t take action in solidarity. We?re referring to ?the distortions of human development under capitalism? and say that ?we see this in its sharpest form in the for-profit part of the higher education industry. We have to look past the distortion to find the original, human connection?.? >>>>> >>>>> One of our readers asks where this concept came from. I don?t remember!! It makes sense, though, doesn?t? Anyone have any idea where it came from? So far I?m saying, >>>>> >>>>> The concept of ?distortions of human development under capitalism? depends on looking at human development as occurring within a social, historical and cultural framework ? not just the development of individuals on their own or within a family or even a school, but within a society. Specifically we mean psychological and cognitive disabilities ranging from lack of empathy, envy, despair, alienation and bullying to obesity, eating disorders and stress-related auto-immune illness. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks ? H >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Helena Worthen >>>>> h elenaworthen@gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Apr 27, 2020, at 9:29 AM, Helena Worthen > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I have been circulating Andy?s paper among close friends and family to generate discussion. What is mostly coming back is confirmation of the general arc, with examples from personal experience, but some disagreement about cause. These are ?inside? views ? meaning, people who are US citizens talking about us, so these are experiences of the passing of an era and what they look like from inside. >>>>>> >>>>>> About a year ago I realized that, for better or worse, I identify as ?an American.? And I don?t mean North American. >>>>>> >>>>>> Chris Appy?s book, American Reckoning, is a pretty good history that takes us from the 1940s up to Obama and tracks the hole we fell into with the Vietnam War. For people of my generation (BA 1965 ? and I mention that date rather than when I was born because 1965 connects to the draft, the lottery, the anti-war demonstrations, the asssinations, etc etc) the story told with the Vietnam War in the foreground connects very tightly to lived experience. >>>>>> >>>>>> Helena Worthen >>>>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Apr 22, 2020, at 4:30 AM, Andy Blunden > wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/American-Century.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!RM9jX_pUJZY491hM050AZdPNEtJg0x2eVXZRPCFisN1vR-O5Ds_8b2-Qb7u9_78QghRsng$ [ethicalpolitics.org] >>>>>>> Andy >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Andy Blunden >>>>>>> Hegel for Social Movements [brill.com] >>>>>>> Home Page [ethicalpolitics.org] >>>>> >>> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200429/f110e97e/attachment.html From Phillip.White@ucdenver.edu Wed Apr 29 13:56:20 2020 From: Phillip.White@ucdenver.edu (White, Phillip) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 20:56:20 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: As of 2020, the American Century is Over In-Reply-To: <8BB24F8E-61F8-4181-B071-CC8AB20CF0A9@cantab.net> References: <85fc2557-3931-47ff-12d4-267e9281a955@marxists.org> <7F106666-4E69-4606-AAB0-10EE9E7A733D@gmail.com> <255B3664-FD24-4025-9854-0B5D8EFA2962@gmail.com> <1c1c059f-f9a9-3606-ae1c-56d0626dd7e6@marxists.org> <4BF1F09B-8C62-4B6B-A573-27F80EDBF7D4@gmail.com> <6EA7437D-09DC-4B52-B00B-218E674D1B85@gmail.com>, <8BB24F8E-61F8-4181-B071-CC8AB20CF0A9@cantab.net> Message-ID: following up on Martin's comments, the distortion of human development is not an effect from the cause of capitalism. that's an awkward beginning, but what i mean to say is that the undeniable reality of the distortion of human development is not directly caused by capitalism. i think that we're using newtonian physics of cause and effect to explain this all to common human affliction, wherein within all human relationships, there is also the distortion of human development. i think that what we're really looking at here is a core human culturally constructed condition that endures regardless of socio-cultural constraints. to provide some support for this assertion i refer to the historian Pekka Hamalainen, author of Comanche Empire (Yale University Press, 2008). Hamalainen describes a culture that in time produced a markedly pronounced distortion of human development. In what we now refer to as North American, in particular the southern great plains that border the east of the Rocky Mountains, from the early 1700?s to the mid 1800?s the Comanches built an empire that ?eclipsed? and ?subsumed? the Euro-American colonies. In doing so the Comanches modified their culture from one of nomadic-hunter gatherers, to a dual economy of hunting and pastoralism of labor division where women specialized in food and hide production, boys in animal herding, and adult men in raiding, hunting and trading. An exchange economy developed based on a horse-bison-grass production in trade for vegetables and cereal grains as well as European guns, gunpowder and metals. In time they had a large-scale slave economy to support their market economy. Though living in groups of small bands, they gathered yearly for inclusive political meetings; regional divisions were formed and met periodically. Leadership coordinated trade and diplomacy, built consensus around treaties, military operations, and coordinate responses to the interference of European-American state powers. They forced the Apaches out of the Great Plains. They created a social network that incorporated junior allies, slaves, adopted kinfolks, and naturalized Comanches. In order to trade and negotiate relationships, ?distant people spoke their language and emulated their economic innovations and lifestyles, their norms of war, peace, violence, exchange and retribution. The resource Comanches needed most was labor to maintain their herds of horses, which led to slaving frontiers of Apacheria, New Mexico, Texas, Chihuahua, Coahuila, Nuevo Leon, Tamaulipas, Durango, Zapatecas, and San Luis Potosi. Within their own culture, the Comanches developed a society of ranked hierarchy where men amassed material possessions of horses and slaves to increase family wealth. Personal prestige and political power was exercised through gift giving and advantageous marriages. Powerful chiefs became obese. For young men, often the means to gain enough material possession in order to marry was through the participation in war parties. They became skilled horse breeders, developed for warfare, hunting and hauling. They recognized at least seventeen types of horses based on color alone. This was all accompanied with ecological degradation due the large population of horses. my two bits. phillip -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200429/ea2649b1/attachment.html From dkellogg60@gmail.com Wed Apr 29 14:50:33 2020 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2020 06:50:33 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Love's In Need of Lean on Me In-Reply-To: References: <7C52C1D6-55E1-49F5-8B25-70EF49C4BC02@gmail.com> Message-ID: You stay healthy too, Henry. By the way, Little Stevie Wonder is still alive and kicking. Bill Withers it was who died recently, and Withers was the one who wrote "Lean on Me". Stevie Wonder was a child prodigy, as you point out, from the era of Michael Jackson; Bill Withers was a shipyard worker who was very reluctant to give up his day job long after he hit it big ("Ain't No Sunshine", which got "appropriated" by everybody from Michael Jackson to David Cassidy, was one of his). Yeah--the change to Withers' lyrics are even worse than I remembered: what the Bill & Melinda Gates folks are really singing is something like "You just might have a problem I'd understand". Hmmm....I just might have a problem with any concept of culture which excludes class. It's not because I am a Marxist (athough that does help). It's really because I'm a phonologist. Even people who are not phonologists can hear that black "dialect" doesn't have that much to do with geographical location: black people people all over America like to simplify consonant clusters, use continuously variable intonation, and tend to pronounce "strong" as "shtrong". Notice that when the white guy stretches his vowels, he produces classical arpeggios with distinct notes--that's not what Wonder does at all! (By the way, Greg's idea of culture as being essentially interpersonal makes this phonological independence from geography hard to explain.) I was only down south once, but I remember hearing white working cass people doing things that were similar but not identical in Florida. The other weird thing about Florida in the early seventies was that it was the one place in the South where these differences were clearly under voluntary control. There were enough New Yorkers around (both colors) so that the locals (both colors) had to be able to drop the phonological differences (or accentuate them when talking to people they don't like--that happens too!). Since Barack Obama, I notice, all black people I talk to have voluntary control of black phonology. White folks still do not. Of course, voluntary control of phonology is really a form of cultural appropriation! I think the problem we have misnamed cultural appropriation does not arise because someone decides to appropriate the culture of somebody else: that is really just another word for learning. The problem arises because there is no such thing as a spoken quotation mark, and when white people talk in black phonology, we do not hear learning and instead put in quotation marks and hear sarcasm, irony, and ridicule. (Greg--I have never actually read anyone who used the term "deficit linguistics" without quotation marks. Ruqaiya's friend and colleague Braj Kachru, referring to Randolph Quirk, was the first to use the term with quotation marks but Quirk himself, although he was certainly ethnocentric in his views, never used the term and never would have. Quirk thought he was recognizing a fait accompli when he used Received Pronunciation as the standard, just as Andy thinks he is recognizing a fait accompli when he refers to an American Century. That's why Peter Jones was so dishonest to put out a whole issue of* Language and Education *on something called "Deficit Linguistics". Irony and sarcasm can never actually be anybody's first word; putting quotation marks around something that isn't actually a quotation is an inadvertant confession: here stands a man of straw.) David Kellogg Sangmyung University New Article: Ruqaiya Hasan, in memoriam: A manual and a manifesto. Outlines, Spring 2020 https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238/167607__;!!Mih3wA!T8U2BdFlml6xShvmjG3W6cNsANJTnDPfTFqn8nyo8jWoiQei7GY5Wb92-5mlGB23SzKqrg$ New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: *L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works* *Volume One: Foundations of Pedology*" https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!T8U2BdFlml6xShvmjG3W6cNsANJTnDPfTFqn8nyo8jWoiQei7GY5Wb92-5mlGB21aSlRDg$ On Thu, Apr 30, 2020 at 1:44 AM HENRY SHONERD wrote: > The second version is soooo produced, so much ?handling". The first so > simple, authentic, coming from someone on the firing line. If a white > person is going to appropriate a Black cultural artifact, surely the doctor > does it right. > > I first heard Stevie as Little Stevie Wonder. So creative, constantly > reinventing his song but always Stevie. I only learned he wrote ?Lean on > Me? late in his life, not long before he died really. > > Stay well, David > > > On Apr 28, 2020, at 7:37 PM, David Kellogg wrote: > > No, shared property is always better, Henry, particularly where "property" > is to be understood as meaning something like "quality" rather than mere > right of possession. > > As usual, you got it right away (it took me a while to work it out). I > think that's because you always focus on the postive content. What strikes > me is the dark warnings, the force of evil, the precautionary measures, and > the need to fight back. But the real "message", to the extent that art has > a message mortals understand, lies beyond both the form and the content. > > The specific form in which genre--always a shared property--is > internalized is as not as a genre but as an indefinitely creative form of > imagination we can call the repertoire. But this repertoire, that feeling > that helps Stevie merge the two songs so that you only notice the seam if > you know both songs by heart, is always an inner property tied "by a > thousand strands and ten thousand threads" (as we say in Chinese), > "intertwined and then interwoven" (as we say in Russian) to shared > property. > > It's not about race, although it does have something to do with class (in > both senses of the word). Listen to the way this doctor sings the song: > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qCKrDJ5OL8__;!!Mih3wA!T8U2BdFlml6xShvmjG3W6cNsANJTnDPfTFqn8nyo8jWoiQei7GY5Wb92-5mlGB2INS4Iaw$ > > > Yeah, I know. He sounds like a white dude--he doesn't collapse the > consonants and he pronounces "strong" without the /sh/ sound that Stevie > uses. But no one can say he doesn't sing with class. > > Compare to the way this black guy in New Orleans does it: > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiouJsnYytI__;!!Mih3wA!T8U2BdFlml6xShvmjG3W6cNsANJTnDPfTFqn8nyo8jWoiQei7GY5Wb92-5mlGB0KEqU6Kg$ > > > See, that one just doesn't do it. It's not just because of the switch from > "I'm gonna need" to "you're gonna need" and from "I just might have a > problem you'd understand" to "you just might have a problem I'd understand". > > I just don't think you can treat this tune like a travel info-mercial. The > change of message does, however, better reflect the message of the > performance sponsors, Bill and Melinda Gates. > > David Kellogg > Sangmyung University > > New Article: Ruqaiya Hasan, in memoriam: A manual and a manifesto. > Outlines, Spring 2020 > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238/167607__;!!Mih3wA!T8U2BdFlml6xShvmjG3W6cNsANJTnDPfTFqn8nyo8jWoiQei7GY5Wb92-5mlGB23SzKqrg$ > > > New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: *L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works* *Volume > One: Foundations of Pedology*" > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!T8U2BdFlml6xShvmjG3W6cNsANJTnDPfTFqn8nyo8jWoiQei7GY5Wb92-5mlGB21aSlRDg$ > > > > > On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 9:50 AM HENRY SHONERD wrote: > >> David, >> >> I wrote some ideas in response to your post below, then, as I ofen do, >> decided to forego the anxiety of posting it to the entire XMCA listserv. >> Here is some inchoate thinking/feeling that I will send to you off-line: >> >> Am I wrong? What is love, if not reciprocity? At any scale, iove is >> revolutionary. A parasite takes from its host and gives nothing in return. >> Work gives meaning to life and is a way to make a living. Love is freely >> given: It doesn?t say I give so that you will give back, but a lopsided >> giving and taking demeans the giver and the taker. At least say thank you. >> From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. >> >> Stay well >> Henry >> >> >> On Apr 23, 2020, at 3:15 PM, David Kellogg wrote: >> >> You can lean on me, Anthony. I was, as you guessed, being pretty critical >> of the video you sent around: I think Wertsch hasn't even got his Hayden >> White right (Hayden White was drawing on a study of medieval literature and >> he argued that the narrative is not so much memory as moral iinstruction). >> But most of the moral instruction (not entertainment) I intended is there >> in the tune, which is from the recent "Home Alone" concert which Lady Gaga >> curated over Zoom. >> >> As you probably heard, Stevie Wonder is mashing up a song from the late >> great Bill Withers that goes like this: >> >> You just call on me, Brother, when you need a hand >> We all need somebody to lean on >> I just might have a problem that you'll understand >> We all need somebody to lean on >> >> Interestingly, a lot of people can't follow that switch. Even my wife >> argues that it makes the idea of mutuality transactional--the song says >> that you can lean on me if and only if I can then lean on you, which makes >> it a covert form of exchange. So there are some versions that switch the >> pronouns and sing "You just might have a problem that I'll understand" >> which makes it coherent narrative, but entirely unidirectional. >> >> But there's a real moral message which makes it a Hayden White type >> narrative. It's not just about mutuality. It's about this: >> >> Good morn or evening friends >> Here's your friendly announcer >> I have serious news to pass on to every-body >> What I'm about to say >> Could mean the world's disaster >> Could change your joy and laughter to tears and pain >> >> It's that >> Love's in need of love today >> Don't delay >> Send yours in right away >> Hate's goin' round >> Breaking many hearts >> Stop it please >> Before it's gone too far >> >> The force of evil plans >> To make you its possession >> And it will if we let it >> Destroy everybody >> We all must take >> Precautionary measures >> If love and peace you treasure >> Then you'll hear me when I say >> >> Love's in need of love today >> love's in need of love today >> Don't delay don't delay >> Send yours in right away >> >> See what I mean? It's not really a narrative. It's not even two >> narratives spliced together. It's repertoire: the kind of thing a great >> musician carries around in his or her head. But that head carries that >> repertoire not just because it leans on ten thousand hours of gruelling >> practice (pace Malcolm Gladwell). That repertoire is a subset of meaning >> potential winnowed (not "produced") by a thousand years of >> turbulent history (which is what Hayden White REALLY said), That's what we >> are seeing now. >> >> David Kellogg >> Sangmyung University >> >> Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of *Critical >> Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational >> action research' in Mind Culture and Activity* >> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847__;!!Mih3wA!T8U2BdFlml6xShvmjG3W6cNsANJTnDPfTFqn8nyo8jWoiQei7GY5Wb92-5mlGB0ZY9Om1Q$ >> [tandfonline.com] >> >> >> Some free e-prints available at: >> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080*10749039.2020.1745847__;Lw!!Mih3wA!T8U2BdFlml6xShvmjG3W6cNsANJTnDPfTFqn8nyo8jWoiQei7GY5Wb92-5mlGB096D2MAw$ >> [tandfonline.com] >> >> >> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works >> Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" >> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!T8U2BdFlml6xShvmjG3W6cNsANJTnDPfTFqn8nyo8jWoiQei7GY5Wb92-5mlGB21aSlRDg$ [springer.com] >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 3:25 AM Anthony Barra >> wrote: >> >>> Thank you. In this post, David provides value for me by including a >>> video I might enjoy, and even greater value to the group by writing three >>> paragraphs they will understand. >>> >>> I will reread a few times and try to take what I can from them. >>> >>> Thanks again ~ >>> Anthony >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 7:41 AM David Kellogg >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Anthony: >>>> >>>> Wertsch believes that governments have very limited power to create >>>> narratives: they can only "produce" narratives that people will "consume", >>>> never mind that this production and consumption involves neither fixed nor >>>> variable capital and exchanges neither use nor exchange value, and he feels >>>> no need whatsoever to offer us a theory (beyond "my side bias", which is >>>> nothing but a Piagetian egocentrism that dare not speak its name) about why >>>> one culture should prefer this narrative and another should prefer that >>>> one. An example he gives is that the US Communist Party never in its >>>> history, which is now over a century long, was able to produce a narrative >>>> that American workers wanted to consume. >>>> >>>> Except that whole generations of terror, state and private, were >>>> manifestly required to bring about this happy result: race riots, >>>> night-riding, lynching, and massacres. Even then HUAC and McCarthy were >>>> required to consolidate it. Ethel Rosenberg was practically burnt at the >>>> stake; Paul Robeson practically driven to suicide. .And still you have >>>> weird little kids like me, born the child of a Manhattan Project scientist, >>>> who dares to believe all the things that so surprise and shock Wertsch: >>>> that the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was an unconscionable war >>>> crime whose only real purpose was to scare the USSR away from China and >>>> Korea (where a huge proportion of the population had to be murdered less >>>> they "consume" the Communist "narrative"). I believed these things not >>>> because of a narrative template, but simply because they fit perfectly with >>>> facts I grew up knowing. Now that I live here I know these things are true >>>> and undeniable, the way that Auschwitz and Birkenau cannot be denied. >>>> >>>> I think that Wertsch's powers of decentration fail him right at the >>>> crucial moment: his very notion of narrative as a basis of human culture is >>>> ethocentric, because it is based on the language variables that Han >>>> Hui-jeong and I called SELF: Subjects, Expectancy of nominal bias, >>>> Linearity of sentences along SVO lines, and the Focalizing voice that >>>> passes judgement at the end of the story. These are not properties of >>>> culture, as Wertsch seems to think, they are merely properties of the >>>> English language. Similarly, "narrative" is simply an individual >>>> realization of a particular autobiographical genre, quite different to and >>>> alien from the way that most people on this planet experience the episodes >>>> of their lives. And even genre is, despite the work of J.R. Martin, not an >>>> over-arching category which all discourse semantics must realize: genre is >>>> a rather fusty and fixed category of something much larger we can call >>>> meaning potential. It is much easier to explain my own beliefs and even the >>>> productions of Korean children as mash-ups of a growing repertoire of >>>> genres, similar to repertoires of music: classical, folk, K-pop and R&B. >>>> >>>> (Did you catch Stevie Wonder's mash-up of "Lean on Me" and "Love's in >>>> Need of Love Today"? https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vgfBJhlEEo__;!!Mih3wA!T8U2BdFlml6xShvmjG3W6cNsANJTnDPfTFqn8nyo8jWoiQei7GY5Wb92-5mlGB3dSXN6-Q$ >>>> [youtube.com] >>>> Is >>>> it narrative or repertoire?) >>>> >>>> David Kellogg >>>> Sangmyung University >>>> >>>> Book Review: 'Fees, Beets, and Music: A critical perusal of *Critical >>>> Pedagogy and Marx, Vygotsky and Freire: Phenomenal forms and educational >>>> action research' in Mind Culture and Activity* >>>> >>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1745847__;!!Mih3wA!T8U2BdFlml6xShvmjG3W6cNsANJTnDPfTFqn8nyo8jWoiQei7GY5Wb92-5mlGB0ZY9Om1Q$ >>>> [tandfonline.com] >>>> >>>> >>>> Some free e-prints available at: >>>> >>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/QBBGIZNKAHPMM4ZVCWVX/full?target=10.1080*10749039.2020.1745847__;Lw!!Mih3wA!T8U2BdFlml6xShvmjG3W6cNsANJTnDPfTFqn8nyo8jWoiQei7GY5Wb92-5mlGB096D2MAw$ >>>> [tandfonline.com] >>>> >>>> >>>> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological >>>> Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology" >>>> >>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!T8U2BdFlml6xShvmjG3W6cNsANJTnDPfTFqn8nyo8jWoiQei7GY5Wb92-5mlGB21aSlRDg$ [springer.com] >>>> >>>> >>>> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200430/a236cf9f/attachment.html From andyb@marxists.org Wed Apr 29 20:27:34 2020 From: andyb@marxists.org (Andy Blunden) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2020 13:27:34 +1000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: As of 2020, the American Century is Over In-Reply-To: <8BB24F8E-61F8-4181-B071-CC8AB20CF0A9@cantab.net> References: <85fc2557-3931-47ff-12d4-267e9281a955@marxists.org> <7F106666-4E69-4606-AAB0-10EE9E7A733D@gmail.com> <255B3664-FD24-4025-9854-0B5D8EFA2962@gmail.com> <1c1c059f-f9a9-3606-ae1c-56d0626dd7e6@marxists.org> <4BF1F09B-8C62-4B6B-A573-27F80EDBF7D4@gmail.com> <6EA7437D-09DC-4B52-B00B-218E674D1B85@gmail.com> <8BB24F8E-61F8-4181-B071-CC8AB20CF0A9@cantab.net> Message-ID: <9bcf3d24-5007-9f91-d878-974a8cd0fe8a@marxists.org> "Alienation" originally meant just selling or gifting or otherwise passing your product to someone else. Hegel saw this as an essential step in the building of social ties, and you can't argue with that, and capitalism is doing that in a big way, tying us all up in a world market. But Hegel thought that workers would find a form of recognition in seeing their product circulating on the market with a social value. That experience can be ambiguous though. Marx's claim was that a worker's product was immediately the property of an alien /class/, and as his daughter Eleanor said, "the worker thus makes the rod for his own back." Derrida, for example, takes Hegel's broader meaning and the modern negative connotation to see "alienation" as inherent in the very act of labour. Marx would not agree. So the contradictory content of "alienation" can be overcome by the workers as a class having control over the distribution of their labour without cancelling the social bonds build by the division of labour. Of course we want to live in a world market and we don't want to know everyone personally, we just want to have? say over own our part in it all. So I wouldn't disagree with you, Martin. Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ *Andy Blunden* Hegel for Social Movements Home Page On 30/04/2020 4:24 am, Martin Packer wrote: > My point was about the problematic nature of the hegemony > of exchange-based relations (i.e. the capitalist relation > in which "what value can I get from you" - you might call > it "The Art of the Deal"!). At the very least, might you > agree that it is a problem if we see ALL human > relationships in these terms? > > I don?t think it could ever happen, Greg. So I?m not going > to worry about it. > > I do seem to be disagreeing with everyone on xmca these > days! Perhaps it?s my way of coping. Perhaps it?s because > I think that if there was ever a time for thinking things > through carefully it is now. > > Surely impersonal anonymous kinds of interactions must > have begun as soon as anything large enough to be called a > city came into existence. I?m not a big fan of Dunbar?s > number, but surely there are limits to the number of > people with whom one can have an personal relationship, > and those limits were exceeded at least 6,000 years ago. > > And is xmca a place of personal relationships? I have met > in person less than 5 people on this list, I think. That?s > to say, we make constant, fruitful and enjoyable use of > impersonal relationships, including here. I for one > wouldn?t wish to return to a time when everyone lived in > villages of less than 150 people. > > And what I remember from Marx is that the original sin of > capitalism is alienation of people not from one another > but from their own labor. (Though the former may be one of > the consequences of the latter.) Of course exploitation > didn?t start with capitalism either, though wage labor > under capitalism is a frighteningly efficient kind of > exploitation. But if I had been born in feudal times I > might have been laboring for the lord of the manor, who > probably didn?t know me by name. If born in Roman times I > might have been a slave, working for the lady of the villa. > > I appreciate that we are all experiencing a certain > nostalgia for the good old days, of perhaps 4 months ago. > And that those of us in lockdown are craving genuine > personal interaction. But I?m not convinced that there > ever was a golden age, a time when development was not > distorted and people were not exploited. It is true that > Pleistocene hunter-gatherers seem to have had a > face-to-face kind of community in which collaboration and > sharing were central. But even they practiced infanticide > and left their old behind when they moved to a new camp. I > don?t think I would have lasted then as long as I have now. > > Martin > > > >> On Apr 29, 2020, at 11:41 AM, Helena Worthen >> > > wrote: >> >> Greg, I think you are drawing attention to one of the >> consequences of the distortion of human development under >> capitalism. If that?s what you mean, then yes, the >> phenomenon of relationships that dead-end when a >> commodity exchange has taken place, rather than moving in >> a circle of reciprocal contribution, would be an example. >> >> A small relatively new private music school near us >> apparently has not been paying ?either its state >> unemployment insurance payroll taxes or making its >> equivalent contribution to a special fund set up for >> non-profits. Now, with the lockdown, it is having to deal >> with reimbursing the state for unemployment claims by its >> laid-off teachers. If you draw the circle of reciprocal >> contribution around this situation, look at what gets >> linked up. Students, their families, teachers, the >> management of the school, the enormous Employment >> Development Department at the state level, the >> legislature?the circle is gigantic, elements of it way >> beyond the horizon of what most people linked up in it >> imagine. >> >> In this case, the ?cut and run? took place at the point >> where the Board of the school decided somehow to assume >> they could risk taking on the obligation of paying >> unemployment benefits rather than pay the payroll tax. >> ?Easy to do ? it?s a small non-profit and this is >> something that gets easily overlooked by inexperienced >> managers. >> >> Nevertheless, the distortion that I?m thinking of ? the >> fear, anger and resentment that pile up when laid-off >> teachers apply for UI benefits? would be a consequence of >> capitalism. >> >> Helena Worthen >> h >> elenaworthen@gmail.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Apr 29, 2020, at 7:53 AM, Martin Packer >>> > wrote: >>> >>> Hi Greg, >>> >>> Are you suggesting that you would like to be able to >>> build a personal relationship with each and every one of >>> your students? And with all your colleagues at the >>> university.? And all the staff at the local supermarket? >>> And all the people who work to send you packages from >>> Amazon? And ?. >>> >>> That?s to say, there are reasons why humans have added >>> ?anonymous? interactions to the personal and >>> interpersonal relationship that (as you acknowledge) we >>> still build and maintain. >>> >>> Martin >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Apr 28, 2020, at 10:13 PM, Greg Thompson >>>> >>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> Helena, >>>> >>>> It sounds like you are describing the commodity fetish. >>>> The labor of the professor is no longer seen as their >>>> own production. Instead it is seen that the professor >>>> simply draws from some "body of knowledge" or a >>>> credential that has a particular (monetary) value. As >>>> with any good (i.e., bad) commodity relation, even the >>>> exchange relations between buyer and seller (professor >>>> and student) are hidden and the professor is merely a >>>> conduit to that valuable knowledge or credential. What >>>> theprofessor has?to offer isMONETIZED, perhaps we might >>>> say that the professor themself is monetized, even >>>> BRANDED (take a look at the web pages of young faculty >>>> and you'll see how important "brand yourself" has >>>> become in the academy). The professor and her work >>>> areunderstood in terms of market value, return on >>>> investment, earning potential of students. >>>> >>>> Students today understand?their task as being a good >>>> consumer; to get at least equal value from professors >>>> as they pay in tuition. (granted much of this is via a >>>> credential, but the professors are a big part of what >>>> stands behind the university's credential). You'll hear >>>> students frequently complain (rightly so) about how >>>> much they are paying for their education followed by >>>> some specific complaint about a professor. >>>> >>>> This is all?part of a larger system in which this is >>>> understood as how the world works. You get what you pay >>>> for. There?ain't no such thing as a free lunch. And so >>>> on. Can we blame students for wanting to know what they >>>> are going to "get" for the money that they pay for >>>> college, and note that this gets even more intense >>>> during hard economic times, of which we are deep into >>>> right this moment(although the fear usually takes a >>>> semester or two before people start fleeing the >>>> humanities and the social sciences to business, >>>> engineering, computer science, or pre-anything). >>>> >>>> (and Lave and Mcdermott's article on Estranged Labor >>>> Learning might be worth revisiting in?this regard?) >>>> >>>> In addition to Marx's commodity fetish, arelated and >>>> interesting?way to think of this is interms of Marcel >>>> Mauss' notion of gift vs. exchange economy (if you'll >>>> allow me to oversimplify a bit). The main difference is >>>> that an exchange economy involves transactions that are >>>> always calculated to be of exactly equal value. The $13 >>>> pair of shoes I buy at the store are worth EXACTLY $13. >>>> Each party to the transaction gets their "money's >>>> worth". Sounds great right? Fair, to be sure. Except it >>>> means that there is no relationship established between >>>> the parties. After the exchange, the parties no longer >>>> have any meaningful relationship. In contrast, a >>>> gifting relationship is not responded in kind (at least >>>> not initially).?As Mary Douglas says in her intro to >>>> Mauss' book The Gift, "there are no free gifts". Note >>>> that this is a very different statement from Milton >>>> Friedman's "there ain't no such thing as a free lunch". >>>> Douglas means that the gift creates a sense of >>>> obligation and thus a relationship. As much as we might >>>> understand this in intimate spaces, as Americans in >>>> public spaces all we know are exchange relationships >>>> (people reject healthcare for all b.c. "why should I >>>> have to pay for healthcare for someone else", ditto for >>>> education (yes, there is a movement in the US to get >>>> rid of public education!)). This is the logic behind >>>> the out-of-hand rejection of socialism - it does not >>>> make sense in the logic of exchange. And, of course, >>>> taxes are justified only in as much as you "get" >>>> something for it (roads, police, fire department, >>>> public transport, etc.) and increasingly tax dollars >>>> are getting hyper-localized so that you get precisely >>>> what you pay for and don't pay a dime more (e.g., gated >>>> communities with private police force, fire dept, etc). >>>> >>>> Interestingly I just today was privilege to hear a >>>> colleague present about his work in Papua New Guinea >>>> (the island of Missima, in the Massim region - the site >>>> of the Kula ring made famous to?Westerners by >>>> Malinowski - and yes, the Kula ring still operates >>>> today). He noted that Missimans can't understand why >>>> Americans (and other Westerners) are so interested in >>>> engaging in exchanges that cut ties (e.g., buying >>>> things from them and then running off). And when >>>> Missimans do try to engage in gifting relationships >>>> with Americans, they are struck by how quickly the >>>> Americans run off, never to return (what idiots those >>>> Americans are!). It is absolutely baffling to them >>>> since they spend their days building relationships with >>>> others. Why would someone not want relationships with >>>> others? >>>> >>>> Can we perhaps understand their bafflement? >>>> >>>> And what, then, is human development within a world >>>> where relations of exchange are everything? (and >>>> thankfully, it isn't total, we Americans still view kin >>>> relations as something more than an exchange relation). >>>> >>>> Anyway, that's at least two times two cents too much. >>>> And terribly inchoate. Far too "off the cuff". Apologies. >>>> >>>> -greg >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 11:19 AM Helena Worthen >>>> >>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> thanks! >>>> >>>> Helena Worthen >>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Apr 27, 2020, at 7:48 PM, Andy Blunden >>>>> > >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> How about this Helena?: >>>>> >>>>> "Time is the room of human development. A man >>>>> who has no free time to dispose of, whose >>>>> whole lifetime, apart from the mere physical >>>>> interruptions by sleep, meals, and so forth, >>>>> is absorbed by his labour for the capitalist, >>>>> is less than a beast of burden. He is a mere >>>>> machine for producing Foreign Wealth, broken >>>>> in body and brutalized in mind. Yet the whole >>>>> history of modern industry shows that capital, >>>>> if not checked, will recklessly and ruthlessly >>>>> work to cast down the whole working class to >>>>> this utmost state of degradation." >>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1865/value-price-profit/ch03.htm__;!!Mih3wA!VqEGaL64FmZV_I_um3Pz783eZ8pNEvPGYm5UvD5aGcMOmh6X_OhKzkBClkLYUt0pOSGjXw$ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> *Andy Blunden* >>>>> Hegel for Social Movements >>>>> >>>>> Home Page >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 28/04/2020 5:23 am, Helena Worthen wrote: >>>>>> Andy?s paper has basically 4 parts. One a flyby >>>>>> overview of the history of the US ? this is where >>>>>> the majority of criticisms by people I know are >>>>>> showing up because people have different versions >>>>>> of that history. Then the argument that with the >>>>>> US going down as one of the poles of global >>>>>> leadership. My friends and family agree with this >>>>>> and are all, as Americans, offering examples of >>>>>> how they have experienced this. Andy notes that >>>>>> there is an empty spot at the top that hasn?t >>>>>> been taken yet.? Then comes his COVID-19 point, >>>>>> that this is a global moment in which the whole >>>>>> world is participating. Most of the xmca >>>>>> discussion has been about that so far, if I?m not >>>>>> mistaken. And finally a challenge to foresee what >>>>>> we will learn from this experience. >>>>>> >>>>>> OK, now trying to forsee what we can learn is >>>>>> what I?m doing.? So here is my question, >>>>>> appropriate for this list since we are all >>>>>> interested in education. I found myself writing >>>>>> the following, as part of describing the way a >>>>>> workforce can be intentionally divided into >>>>>> feuding packs of enemies so that we can?t take >>>>>> action in solidarity. We?re referring to ?the >>>>>> distortions of human development under >>>>>> capitalism? and say that ?we see this in its >>>>>> sharpest form in the for-profit part of the >>>>>> higher education industry. We have to look past >>>>>> the distortion to find the original, human >>>>>> connection?.? >>>>>> >>>>>> One of our readers asks where this concept came >>>>>> from. I don?t remember!! It makes sense, though, >>>>>> doesn?t? Anyone have any idea where it came from? >>>>>> So far I?m saying, >>>>>> >>>>>> The concept of ?distortions of human development >>>>>> under capitalism? depends on looking at human >>>>>> development as occurring within a social, >>>>>> historical and cultural framework ? not just the >>>>>> development of individuals on their own or within >>>>>> a family or even a school, but within a society. >>>>>> Specifically we mean psychological and cognitive >>>>>> disabilities ranging from lack of empathy, envy, >>>>>> despair, alienation and bullying to obesity, >>>>>> eating disorders and stress-related auto-immune >>>>>> illness. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks ? H >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Helena Worthen >>>>>> h >>>>>> elenaworthen@gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Apr 27, 2020, at 9:29 AM, Helena Worthen >>>>>>> >>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have been circulating Andy?s paper among close >>>>>>> friends and family to generate discussion. What >>>>>>> is mostly coming back is confirmation of the >>>>>>> general arc, with examples from personal >>>>>>> experience, but some disagreement about cause. >>>>>>> These are ?inside? views ? meaning, people who >>>>>>> are US citizens talking about us, so these are >>>>>>> experiences of the passing of an era and what >>>>>>> they look like from inside. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> About a year ago I realized that, for better or >>>>>>> worse, I identify as ?an American.? And I don?t >>>>>>> mean North American. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Chris Appy?s book, /American Reckoning/, is a >>>>>>> pretty good history that takes us from the 1940s >>>>>>> up to Obama and tracks the hole we fell into >>>>>>> with the Vietnam War. For people of my >>>>>>> generation (BA 1965 ? and I mention that date >>>>>>> rather than when I was born because 1965 >>>>>>> connects to the draft, the lottery, the anti-war >>>>>>> demonstrations, the asssinations, etc etc) the >>>>>>> story told with the Vietnam War in the >>>>>>> foreground connects very tightly to lived >>>>>>> experience. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Helena Worthen >>>>>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Apr 22, 2020, at 4:30 AM, Andy Blunden >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/American-Century.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!VqEGaL64FmZV_I_um3Pz783eZ8pNEvPGYm5UvD5aGcMOmh6X_OhKzkBClkLYUt1O-_KPrQ$ >>>>>>>> [ethicalpolitics.org] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Andy >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>>>> *Andy Blunden* >>>>>>>> Hegel for Social Movements [brill.com] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Home Page [ethicalpolitics.org] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200430/75dd0946/attachment.html From haydizulfei@gmail.com Wed Apr 29 23:49:06 2020 From: haydizulfei@gmail.com (Haydi Zulfei) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2020 11:19:06 +0430 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: As of 2020, the American Century is Over In-Reply-To: References: <85fc2557-3931-47ff-12d4-267e9281a955@marxists.org> <7F106666-4E69-4606-AAB0-10EE9E7A733D@gmail.com> <255B3664-FD24-4025-9854-0B5D8EFA2962@gmail.com> <1c1c059f-f9a9-3606-ae1c-56d0626dd7e6@marxists.org> <4BF1F09B-8C62-4B6B-A573-27F80EDBF7D4@gmail.com> Message-ID: Greetings and thanks for generous givings! But if the Coronavirus were able to keep the bellies unfilled , the bodies nude and at the mercy of storms and chillings and frosts , then the best of the gigantic souls and the embodiments of all spirituality , intimacy and sublime relationships would rather reincarnate in other creatures of some other planets. Now that we have produced or are able to produce more than what the whole galaxy needs to sustain , we have distanced our origin and the base of the phenomena. Hence easy to talk of other of the material exchange. The irony is that we even now eat to get to obesity. Nothing of the holiness of Marx was lost by his focusing on production , exchange , distribution and consumption. He explained them in the best of the ways not just to be thinkable but applicable as well practicable. It just remains for us to at times read between the lines. What he was worried about was that for him was thinkable that if Capital finds more open ways , the whole existence is (not will be) swallowed at the blink of an eye. Corona is innocent compared to atrocities Capital did to Mankind let alone mercifulness , compassion and love. As long as WALLSTREET,s govern , all values on behalf of all Valuables subsist. And you well know that all they get by profit , will be gone soullessly if just they knew that re-accumulation would bring them not just less profit but just profit as before. Thanks again and regards Haydi On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 10:09 PM Greg Thompson wrote: > Martin, > > Yes, you point to a valid concern: total hegemony of intimate > relationships on a universal scale would be a problem. But that wasn't > exactly my point (unclear as it was). (I don't entirely agree with you - > I'd suggest that some kind of universal connection, perhaps a universal > kinship, would be important for a more humane world, but that is not the > same as a close meaningful relationship with every single human being that > we encounter). > > My point was about the problematic nature of the hegemony of > exchange-based relations (i.e. the capitalist relation in which "what value > can I get from you" - you might call it "The Art of the Deal"!). At the > very least, might you agree that it is a problem if we see ALL human > relationships in these terms? > > -greg > > On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 8:56 AM Martin Packer wrote: > >> Hi Greg, >> >> Are you suggesting that you would like to be able to build a personal >> relationship with each and every one of your students? And with all your >> colleagues at the university.? And all the staff at the local supermarket? >> And all the people who work to send you packages from Amazon? And ?. >> >> That?s to say, there are reasons why humans have added ?anonymous? >> interactions to the personal and interpersonal relationship that (as you >> acknowledge) we still build and maintain. >> >> Martin >> >> >> >> On Apr 28, 2020, at 10:13 PM, Greg Thompson >> wrote: >> >> Helena, >> >> It sounds like you are describing the commodity fetish. The labor of the >> professor is no longer seen as their own production. Instead it is seen >> that the professor simply draws from some "body of knowledge" or a >> credential that has a particular (monetary) value. As with any good (i.e., >> bad) commodity relation, even the exchange relations between buyer and >> seller (professor and student) are hidden and the professor is merely a >> conduit to that valuable knowledge or credential. What the professor has to >> offer is MONETIZED, perhaps we might say that the professor themself is >> monetized, even BRANDED (take a look at the web pages of young faculty and >> you'll see how important "brand yourself" has become in the academy). The >> professor and her work are understood in terms of market value, return >> on investment, earning potential of students. >> >> Students today understand their task as being a good consumer; to get at >> least equal value from professors as they pay in tuition. (granted much of >> this is via a credential, but the professors are a big part of what stands >> behind the university's credential). You'll hear students frequently >> complain (rightly so) about how much they are paying for their education >> followed by some specific complaint about a professor. >> >> This is all part of a larger system in which this is understood as how >> the world works. You get what you pay for. There ain't no such thing as a >> free lunch. And so on. Can we blame students for wanting to know what >> they are going to "get" for the money that they pay for college, and note >> that this gets even more intense during hard economic times, of which we >> are deep into right this moment (although the fear usually takes a >> semester or two before people start fleeing the humanities and the social >> sciences to business, engineering, computer science, or pre-anything). >> >> (and Lave and Mcdermott's article on Estranged Labor Learning might be >> worth revisiting in this regard?) >> >> In addition to Marx's commodity fetish, a related and interesting way to >> think of this is in terms of Marcel Mauss' notion of gift vs. exchange >> economy (if you'll allow me to oversimplify a bit). The main difference >> is that an exchange economy involves transactions that are always >> calculated to be of exactly equal value. The $13 pair of shoes I buy at the >> store are worth EXACTLY $13. Each party to the transaction gets their >> "money's worth". Sounds great right? Fair, to be sure. Except it means that >> there is no relationship established between the parties. After the >> exchange, the parties no longer have any meaningful relationship. In >> contrast, a gifting relationship is not responded in kind (at least not >> initially). As Mary Douglas says in her intro to Mauss' book The Gift, >> "there are no free gifts". Note that this is a very different statement >> from Milton Friedman's "there ain't no such thing as a free lunch". Douglas >> means that the gift creates a sense of obligation and thus a relationship. >> As much as we might understand this in intimate spaces, as Americans in >> public spaces all we know are exchange relationships (people reject >> healthcare for all b.c. "why should I have to pay for healthcare for >> someone else", ditto for education (yes, there is a movement in the US to >> get rid of public education!)). This is the logic behind the out-of-hand >> rejection of socialism - it does not make sense in the logic of exchange. >> And, of course, taxes are justified only in as much as you "get" something >> for it (roads, police, fire department, public transport, etc.) and >> increasingly tax dollars are getting hyper-localized so that you get >> precisely what you pay for and don't pay a dime more (e.g., gated >> communities with private police force, fire dept, etc). >> >> Interestingly I just today was privilege to hear a colleague present >> about his work in Papua New Guinea (the island of Missima, in the Massim >> region - the site of the Kula ring made famous to Westerners by Malinowski >> - and yes, the Kula ring still operates today). He noted that Missimans >> can't understand why Americans (and other Westerners) are so interested in >> engaging in exchanges that cut ties (e.g., buying things from them and then >> running off). And when Missimans do try to engage in gifting relationships >> with Americans, they are struck by how quickly the Americans run off, never >> to return (what idiots those Americans are!). It is absolutely baffling to >> them since they spend their days building relationships with others. Why >> would someone not want relationships with others? >> >> Can we perhaps understand their bafflement? >> >> And what, then, is human development within a world where relations of >> exchange are everything? (and thankfully, it isn't total, we Americans >> still view kin relations as something more than an exchange relation). >> >> Anyway, that's at least two times two cents too much. And terribly >> inchoate. Far too "off the cuff". Apologies. >> >> -greg >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 11:19 AM Helena Worthen >> wrote: >> >>> thanks! >>> >>> Helena Worthen >>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Apr 27, 2020, at 7:48 PM, Andy Blunden wrote: >>> >>> How about this Helena?: >>> >>> "Time is the room of human development. A man who has no free time to >>> dispose of, whose whole lifetime, apart from the mere physical >>> interruptions by sleep, meals, and so forth, is absorbed by his labour for >>> the capitalist, is less than a beast of burden. He is a mere machine for >>> producing Foreign Wealth, broken in body and brutalized in mind. Yet the >>> whole history of modern industry shows that capital, if not checked, will >>> recklessly and ruthlessly work to cast down the whole working class to this >>> utmost state of degradation." >>> >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1865/value-price-profit/ch03.htm__;!!Mih3wA!XCRmBr6Y8-jbO4euckQuc4mym5WYIqkvU6ndUHvbU13pl--AEhEAJROnTZJmV7M8Rk-rEw$ >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *Andy Blunden* >>> Hegel for Social Movements >>> >>> Home Page >>> >>> On 28/04/2020 5:23 am, Helena Worthen wrote: >>> >>> Andy?s paper has basically 4 parts. One a flyby overview of the history >>> of the US ? this is where the majority of criticisms by people I know are >>> showing up because people have different versions of that history. Then the >>> argument that with the US going down as one of the poles of global >>> leadership. My friends and family agree with this and are all, as >>> Americans, offering examples of how they have experienced this. Andy notes >>> that there is an empty spot at the top that hasn?t been taken yet. Then >>> comes his COVID-19 point, that this is a global moment in which the whole >>> world is participating. Most of the xmca discussion has been about that so >>> far, if I?m not mistaken. And finally a challenge to foresee what we will >>> learn from this experience. >>> >>> OK, now trying to forsee what we can learn is what I?m doing. So here >>> is my question, appropriate for this list since we are all interested in >>> education. I found myself writing the following, as part of describing the >>> way a workforce can be intentionally divided into feuding packs of enemies >>> so that we can?t take action in solidarity. We?re referring to ?the >>> distortions of human development under capitalism? and say that ?we see >>> this in its sharpest form in the for-profit part of the higher education >>> industry. We have to look past the distortion to find the original, human >>> connection?.? >>> >>> One of our readers asks where this concept came from. I don?t remember!! >>> It makes sense, though, doesn?t? Anyone have any idea where it came from? >>> So far I?m saying, >>> >>> The concept of ?distortions of human development under capitalism? >>> depends on looking at human development as occurring within a social, >>> historical and cultural framework ? not just the development of individuals >>> on their own or within a family or even a school, but within a society. >>> Specifically we mean psychological and cognitive disabilities ranging from >>> lack of empathy, envy, despair, alienation and bullying to obesity, eating >>> disorders and stress-related auto-immune illness. >>> >>> Thanks ? H >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Helena Worthen >>> h >>> >>> elenaworthen@gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Apr 27, 2020, at 9:29 AM, Helena Worthen >>> wrote: >>> >>> I have been circulating Andy?s paper among close friends and family to >>> generate discussion. What is mostly coming back is confirmation of the >>> general arc, with examples from personal experience, but some disagreement >>> about cause. These are ?inside? views ? meaning, people who are US citizens >>> talking about us, so these are experiences of the passing of an era and >>> what they look like from inside. >>> >>> About a year ago I realized that, for better or worse, I identify as ?an >>> American.? And I don?t mean North American. >>> >>> Chris Appy?s book, *American Reckoning*, is a pretty good history that >>> takes us from the 1940s up to Obama and tracks the hole we fell into with >>> the Vietnam War. For people of my generation (BA 1965 ? and I mention that >>> date rather than when I was born because 1965 connects to the draft, the >>> lottery, the anti-war demonstrations, the asssinations, etc etc) the story >>> told with the Vietnam War in the foreground connects very tightly to lived >>> experience. >>> >>> Helena Worthen >>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Apr 22, 2020, at 4:30 AM, Andy Blunden wrote: >>> >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/American-Century.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!XCRmBr6Y8-jbO4euckQuc4mym5WYIqkvU6ndUHvbU13pl--AEhEAJROnTZJmV7PmSdaSug$ >>> [ethicalpolitics.org] >>> >>> >>> Andy >>> -- >>> ------------------------------ >>> *Andy Blunden* >>> Hegel for Social Movements [brill.com] >>> >>> Home Page [ethicalpolitics.org] >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!XCRmBr6Y8-jbO4euckQuc4mym5WYIqkvU6ndUHvbU13pl--AEhEAJROnTZJmV7O8-HglKQ$ > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!XCRmBr6Y8-jbO4euckQuc4mym5WYIqkvU6ndUHvbU13pl--AEhEAJROnTZJmV7PuX8wPZQ$ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200430/e006d1f1/attachment.html From Peg.Griffin@att.net Thu Apr 30 10:21:31 2020 From: Peg.Griffin@att.net (Peg Griffin, Ph.D.) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2020 13:21:31 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] FW: REMINDER! May Day Event: Workers of the World Unite for a New Social Contract with No Exclusions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000601d61f13$cbd32360$63796a20$@att.net> In case you want to tune in in a little less than 24 hours: From: Solidarity Center [mailto:scadmin@solidaritycenter.org] Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2020 12:02 PM To: peg.griffin@att.net Subject: REMINDER! May Day Event: Workers of the World Unite for a New Social Contract with No Exclusions Workers of the World Unite for a New Social Contract Dear Friends: Join worker rights advocates from Bangladesh, Honduras, the Middle East and global union organizations for a special online May Day event as they share how they are ensuring that migrant workers and all workers, regardless of status, have protections amid the coronavirus pandemic. Together, we will discuss how we can build on the lessons from the COVID-19 crisis to push for a new social contract with no exclusions. May 1, 2020 11:00 a.m. EDT Register here: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://zoom.us/webinar/register/1615876854696/WN_LtBrCJ7BTYO_6D3kGILB8Q__;!!Mih3wA!Q5rtgwTlY3NHDl7hcQFzRXAPGFkTtlLNA5ojxpeMCKbZmWY1fbkHOQQEmBvePn0$ The COVID crisis exposes systemic injustices that the global labor movement has long fought to change ? informality in our economy, weak health care systems, lack of a social safety net, structural racism, gender discrimination and inhumane and exploitative migration regimes. We can, and must, build on this crisis to demand and create change! Register today for the online discussion, co-sponsored by the International Trade Union Confederation and AFL-CIO. Moderator Cathy Feingold, AFL-CIO International Director, International Trade Union Confederation Deputy President Speakers * Chidi King, Director of Equality Department, International Trade Union Confederation * Genevieve Gencianos, Migration Program Coordinator, Public Services International * Hind Cherrouk, Middle East North Africa Regional Director, Solidarity Center * Nazma Akter, President, Sommilito Garment Sramik Federation * Maria Elena Sabill?n, Solidarity Center, Honduras Copyright ? 2020 Solidarity Center, All rights reserved. You are receiving this email because you signed up for emails on our website and/or attended one of Solidarity Center's events. Our mailing address is: Solidarity Center 1130 Connecticut Ave NW # 800 Washington, DC 20036-3904 Add us to your address book Want to change how you receive these emails? You can update your preferences or unsubscribe from this list. Privacy Policy | Terms of Use -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200430/01092820/attachment.html From mcole@ucsd.edu Thu Apr 30 10:26:22 2020 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2020 10:26:22 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: FW: REMINDER! May Day Event: Workers of the World Unite for a New Social Contract with No Exclusions In-Reply-To: <000601d61f13$cbd32360$63796a20$@att.net> References: <000601d61f13$cbd32360$63796a20$@att.net> Message-ID: Thanks Peg -- It sure is an interesting year to tune in. mike On Thu, Apr 30, 2020 at 10:24 AM Peg Griffin, Ph.D. wrote: > In case you want to tune in in a little less than 24 hours: > > > > *From:* Solidarity Center [mailto:scadmin@solidaritycenter.org] > *Sent:* Thursday, April 30, 2020 12:02 PM > *To:* peg.griffin@att.net > *Subject:* REMINDER! May Day Event: Workers of the World Unite for a New > Social Contract with No Exclusions > > > > [image: > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://gallery.mailchimp.com/dae3e68b7fc12b0923d77fcde/images/8e2f2075-94d7-4745-a1f2-a9b32582f10a.png__;!!Mih3wA!Q9DMONZDycrxcb4MxISG0bHWviUjETwfCsoV_Pik99na7XwQ5PB5xBSlXQcvFqQ$ ] > > > > [image: > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mcusercontent.com/dae3e68b7fc12b0923d77fcde/images/b7e2afdf-8c12-438b-bdf6-b6d887043d7c.png__;!!Mih3wA!Q9DMONZDycrxcb4MxISG0bHWviUjETwfCsoV_Pik99na7XwQ5PB5xBSlso3dLM4$ ] > > *Workers of the World Unite* > *for a New Social Contract* > > *Dear Friends:* > > Join worker rights advocates from Bangladesh, Honduras, the Middle > East and global union organizations for a special online May Day event as > they share how they are ensuring that migrant workers and all workers, > regardless of status, have protections amid the coronavirus pandemic. > > Together, we will discuss how we can build on the lessons from the > COVID-19 crisis to push for a new social contract with no exclusions. > > *May 1, 2020* > > > *11:00 a.m. EDTRegister here: * > *https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://zoom.us/webinar/register/1615876854696/WN_LtBrCJ7BTYO_6D3kGILB8Q*__;Kg!!Mih3wA!Q9DMONZDycrxcb4MxISG0bHWviUjETwfCsoV_Pik99na7XwQ5PB5xBSlxX09Er4$ > > > > The COVID crisis exposes systemic injustices that the global labor > movement has long fought to change ? informality in our economy, weak > health care systems, lack of a social safety net, structural racism, gender > discrimination and inhumane and exploitative migration regimes. > > We can, and must, build on this crisis to demand and create change! > > *Register today for the online discussion* > > *,* co-sponsored by the International Trade Union Confederation and > AFL-CIO. > > *Moderator* > Cathy Feingold, AFL-CIO International Director, International Trade Union > Confederation Deputy President > > *Speakers* > > - Chidi King, Director of Equality Department, International Trade > Union Confederation > - Genevieve Gencianos, Migration Program Coordinator, Public Services > International > - Hind Cherrouk, Middle East North Africa Regional Director, > Solidarity Center > - Nazma Akter, President, Sommilito Garment Sramik Federation > - Maria Elena Sabill?n, Solidarity Center, Honduras > > > > > > [image: Facebook] > > > [image: Twitter] > > > [image: Link] > > > [image: Website] > > > > > > > *Copyright ? 2020 Solidarity Center, All rights reserved.* > You are receiving this email because you signed up for emails on our > website and/or attended one of Solidarity Center's events. > > *Our mailing address is:* > > Solidarity Center > > 1130 Connecticut Ave NW # 800 > > Washington, DC 20036-3904 > > > Add us to your address book > > > > > Want to change how you receive these emails? > You can update your preferences > > or unsubscribe from this list > > . > > Privacy Policy > > | Terms of Use > > > [image: > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://solidaritycenter.us12.list-manage.com/track/open.php?u=dae3e68b7fc12b0923d77fcde&id=b06bcc3290&e=af01bcc874__;!!Mih3wA!Q9DMONZDycrxcb4MxISG0bHWviUjETwfCsoV_Pik99na7XwQ5PB5xBSlWiwgYNw$ ] > -- Detroit Students Have a Constitutional Right to Literacy, Court Rules -N.Y Times, July 28, 2020--------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200430/f6ecfb07/attachment.html From mcole@ucsd.edu Thu Apr 30 10:26:22 2020 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2020 10:26:22 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: FW: REMINDER! May Day Event: Workers of the World Unite for a New Social Contract with No Exclusions In-Reply-To: <000601d61f13$cbd32360$63796a20$@att.net> References: <000601d61f13$cbd32360$63796a20$@att.net> Message-ID: Thanks Peg -- It sure is an interesting year to tune in. mike On Thu, Apr 30, 2020 at 10:24 AM Peg Griffin, Ph.D. wrote: > In case you want to tune in in a little less than 24 hours: > > > > *From:* Solidarity Center [mailto:scadmin@solidaritycenter.org] > *Sent:* Thursday, April 30, 2020 12:02 PM > *To:* peg.griffin@att.net > *Subject:* REMINDER! May Day Event: Workers of the World Unite for a New > Social Contract with No Exclusions > > > > [image: > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://gallery.mailchimp.com/dae3e68b7fc12b0923d77fcde/images/8e2f2075-94d7-4745-a1f2-a9b32582f10a.png__;!!Mih3wA!QaPwyK5xFsc_mbpwpxDjXW-KdbUhPdE_AxmLLccmN0u1-QL6bTDS7TtZo-iL4cfvLf79mw$ ] > > > > [image: > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mcusercontent.com/dae3e68b7fc12b0923d77fcde/images/b7e2afdf-8c12-438b-bdf6-b6d887043d7c.png__;!!Mih3wA!QaPwyK5xFsc_mbpwpxDjXW-KdbUhPdE_AxmLLccmN0u1-QL6bTDS7TtZo-iL4cf35wbxZA$ ] > > *Workers of the World Unite* > *for a New Social Contract* > > *Dear Friends:* > > Join worker rights advocates from Bangladesh, Honduras, the Middle > East and global union organizations for a special online May Day event as > they share how they are ensuring that migrant workers and all workers, > regardless of status, have protections amid the coronavirus pandemic. > > Together, we will discuss how we can build on the lessons from the > COVID-19 crisis to push for a new social contract with no exclusions. > > *May 1, 2020* > > > *11:00 a.m. EDTRegister here: * > *https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://zoom.us/webinar/register/1615876854696/WN_LtBrCJ7BTYO_6D3kGILB8Q*__;Kg!!Mih3wA!QaPwyK5xFsc_mbpwpxDjXW-KdbUhPdE_AxmLLccmN0u1-QL6bTDS7TtZo-iL4cd_sT7I2g$ > > > > The COVID crisis exposes systemic injustices that the global labor > movement has long fought to change ? informality in our economy, weak > health care systems, lack of a social safety net, structural racism, gender > discrimination and inhumane and exploitative migration regimes. > > We can, and must, build on this crisis to demand and create change! > > *Register today for the online discussion* > > *,* co-sponsored by the International Trade Union Confederation and > AFL-CIO. > > *Moderator* > Cathy Feingold, AFL-CIO International Director, International Trade Union > Confederation Deputy President > > *Speakers* > > - Chidi King, Director of Equality Department, International Trade > Union Confederation > - Genevieve Gencianos, Migration Program Coordinator, Public Services > International > - Hind Cherrouk, Middle East North Africa Regional Director, > Solidarity Center > - Nazma Akter, President, Sommilito Garment Sramik Federation > - Maria Elena Sabill?n, Solidarity Center, Honduras > > > > > > [image: Facebook] > > > [image: Twitter] > > > [image: Link] > > > [image: Website] > > > > > > > *Copyright ? 2020 Solidarity Center, All rights reserved.* > You are receiving this email because you signed up for emails on our > website and/or attended one of Solidarity Center's events. > > *Our mailing address is:* > > Solidarity Center > > 1130 Connecticut Ave NW # 800 > > Washington, DC 20036-3904 > > > Add us to your address book > > > > > Want to change how you receive these emails? > You can update your preferences > > or unsubscribe from this list > > . > > Privacy Policy > > | Terms of Use > > > [image: > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://solidaritycenter.us12.list-manage.com/track/open.php?u=dae3e68b7fc12b0923d77fcde&id=b06bcc3290&e=af01bcc874__;!!Mih3wA!QaPwyK5xFsc_mbpwpxDjXW-KdbUhPdE_AxmLLccmN0u1-QL6bTDS7TtZo-iL4ccntyFtEw$ ] > -- Detroit Students Have a Constitutional Right to Literacy, Court Rules -N.Y Times, July 28, 2020--------------------------------------------------- For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members of LCHC, visit lchc.ucsd.edu. For archival materials and a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200430/f6ecfb07/attachment-0001.html From greg.a.thompson@gmail.com Thu Apr 30 10:44:27 2020 From: greg.a.thompson@gmail.com (Greg Thompson) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2020 11:44:27 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: As of 2020, the American Century is Over In-Reply-To: <8BB24F8E-61F8-4181-B071-CC8AB20CF0A9@cantab.net> References: <85fc2557-3931-47ff-12d4-267e9281a955@marxists.org> <7F106666-4E69-4606-AAB0-10EE9E7A733D@gmail.com> <255B3664-FD24-4025-9854-0B5D8EFA2962@gmail.com> <1c1c059f-f9a9-3606-ae1c-56d0626dd7e6@marxists.org> <4BF1F09B-8C62-4B6B-A573-27F80EDBF7D4@gmail.com> <6EA7437D-09DC-4B52-B00B-218E674D1B85@gmail.com> <8BB24F8E-61F8-4181-B071-CC8AB20CF0A9@cantab.net> Message-ID: Martin, I'm delighted by your optimism and hopefulness about the U.S.! (particularly for someone who left the U.S.! "It's a lovely place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there"). and, of course, nostalgia has its problems (as you might imagine, my colleague's experiences in PNG were not all flowers and roses). But it is at least something to hold onto. Perhaps you could share where you place your hopes? or what is your long duree visions of things (either as they HAVE happened) or as they might happen? Based on what I'm seeing circulating among friends (both in person and on social media), I am becoming increasingly pessimistic about the hopes for America. As just one recent example, there is a video that was circulating in which two California doctors present a bunch of numbers to show that the coronavirus is not at all a serious threat. The only trouble is, their calculations are totally mistaken (and not only are they mistaken but they do two different calculations in two totally different ways). And yet the video has been posted and reposted as "truth" against the fictional numbers that the WHO is putting out (in cahoots with Bill Gates). Not only that, there has been news coverage of the video that does not point out the fundamental flaws. It's like someone says that 2+2=5 and then conclude that Trump is the right president and then claims that they should get equal coverage to those people who say 2+2=4. And then to add fuel to the fire, Facebook and Youtube have insisted on taking these videos down because they are propogating false information about the coronavirus. And guess what the coronavirus deniers are now saying that this is further evidence of the conspiracy of the WHO and Bill Gates! So this general trend, among many other things, is what makes me incredibly pessimistic about things and which makes nostalgia incredibly appealing (although my nostalgia is to Make America Decent Again). Anyway, my apologies for writing gobbly-gook, I'm not editing these at all. But I'd be delighted to hear your non-nostalgia forms of hope (and perhaps your hope is not at all a hope for American? Maybe quite the opposite? In which case what I've described above is precisely what's needed!). And regardless of hope, how do you see this present moment in cultural-historical terms? -greg On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 12:29 PM Martin Packer wrote: > My point was about the problematic nature of the hegemony of > exchange-based relations (i.e. the capitalist relation in which "what value > can I get from you" - you might call it "The Art of the Deal"!). At the > very least, might you agree that it is a problem if we see ALL human > relationships in these terms? > > I don?t think it could ever happen, Greg. So I?m not going to worry about > it. > > I do seem to be disagreeing with everyone on xmca these days! Perhaps it?s > my way of coping. Perhaps it?s because I think that if there was ever a > time for thinking things through carefully it is now. > > Surely impersonal anonymous kinds of interactions must have begun as soon > as anything large enough to be called a city came into existence. I?m not a > big fan of Dunbar?s number, but surely there are limits to the number of > people with whom one can have an personal relationship, and those limits > were exceeded at least 6,000 years ago. > > And is xmca a place of personal relationships? I have met in person less > than 5 people on this list, I think. That?s to say, we make constant, > fruitful and enjoyable use of impersonal relationships, including here. I > for one wouldn?t wish to return to a time when everyone lived in villages > of less than 150 people. > > And what I remember from Marx is that the original sin of capitalism is > alienation of people not from one another but from their own labor. (Though > the former may be one of the consequences of the latter.) Of course > exploitation didn?t start with capitalism either, though wage labor under > capitalism is a frighteningly efficient kind of exploitation. But if I had > been born in feudal times I might have been laboring for the lord of the > manor, who probably didn?t know me by name. If born in Roman times I might > have been a slave, working for the lady of the villa. > > I appreciate that we are all experiencing a certain nostalgia for the good > old days, of perhaps 4 months ago. And that those of us in lockdown are > craving genuine personal interaction. But I?m not convinced that there ever > was a golden age, a time when development was not distorted and people were > not exploited. It is true that Pleistocene hunter-gatherers seem to have > had a face-to-face kind of community in which collaboration and sharing > were central. But even they practiced infanticide and left their old behind > when they moved to a new camp. I don?t think I would have lasted then as > long as I have now. > > Martin > > > > On Apr 29, 2020, at 11:41 AM, Helena Worthen > wrote: > > Greg, I think you are drawing attention to one of the consequences of the > distortion of human development under capitalism. If that?s what you mean, > then yes, the phenomenon of relationships that dead-end when a commodity > exchange has taken place, rather than moving in a circle of reciprocal > contribution, would be an example. > > A small relatively new private music school near us apparently has not > been paying either its state unemployment insurance payroll taxes or > making its equivalent contribution to a special fund set up for > non-profits. Now, with the lockdown, it is having to deal with reimbursing > the state for unemployment claims by its laid-off teachers. If you draw the > circle of reciprocal contribution around this situation, look at what gets > linked up. Students, their families, teachers, the management of the > school, the enormous Employment Development Department at the state level, > the legislature?the circle is gigantic, elements of it way beyond the > horizon of what most people linked up in it imagine. > > In this case, the ?cut and run? took place at the point where the Board of > the school decided somehow to assume they could risk taking on the > obligation of paying unemployment benefits rather than pay the payroll > tax. Easy to do ? it?s a small non-profit and this is something that gets > easily overlooked by inexperienced managers. > > Nevertheless, the distortion that I?m thinking of ? the fear, anger and > resentment that pile up when laid-off teachers apply for UI benefits? would > be a consequence of capitalism. > > Helena Worthen > h > > elenaworthen@gmail.com > > > > > > > > On Apr 29, 2020, at 7:53 AM, Martin Packer wrote: > > Hi Greg, > > Are you suggesting that you would like to be able to build a personal > relationship with each and every one of your students? And with all your > colleagues at the university.? And all the staff at the local supermarket? > And all the people who work to send you packages from Amazon? And ?. > > That?s to say, there are reasons why humans have added ?anonymous? > interactions to the personal and interpersonal relationship that (as you > acknowledge) we still build and maintain. > > Martin > > > > On Apr 28, 2020, at 10:13 PM, Greg Thompson > wrote: > > Helena, > > It sounds like you are describing the commodity fetish. The labor of the > professor is no longer seen as their own production. Instead it is seen > that the professor simply draws from some "body of knowledge" or a > credential that has a particular (monetary) value. As with any good (i.e., > bad) commodity relation, even the exchange relations between buyer and > seller (professor and student) are hidden and the professor is merely a > conduit to that valuable knowledge or credential. What the professor has to > offer is MONETIZED, perhaps we might say that the professor themself is > monetized, even BRANDED (take a look at the web pages of young faculty and > you'll see how important "brand yourself" has become in the academy). The > professor and her work are understood in terms of market value, return on > investment, earning potential of students. > > Students today understand their task as being a good consumer; to get at > least equal value from professors as they pay in tuition. (granted much of > this is via a credential, but the professors are a big part of what stands > behind the university's credential). You'll hear students frequently > complain (rightly so) about how much they are paying for their education > followed by some specific complaint about a professor. > > This is all part of a larger system in which this is understood as how the > world works. You get what you pay for. There ain't no such thing as a free > lunch. And so on. Can we blame students for wanting to know what they are > going to "get" for the money that they pay for college, and note that this > gets even more intense during hard economic times, of which we are deep > into right this moment (although the fear usually takes a semester or two > before people start fleeing the humanities and the social sciences to > business, engineering, computer science, or pre-anything). > > (and Lave and Mcdermott's article on Estranged Labor Learning might be > worth revisiting in this regard?) > > In addition to Marx's commodity fetish, a related and interesting way to > think of this is in terms of Marcel Mauss' notion of gift vs. exchange > economy (if you'll allow me to oversimplify a bit). The main difference > is that an exchange economy involves transactions that are always > calculated to be of exactly equal value. The $13 pair of shoes I buy at the > store are worth EXACTLY $13. Each party to the transaction gets their > "money's worth". Sounds great right? Fair, to be sure. Except it means that > there is no relationship established between the parties. After the > exchange, the parties no longer have any meaningful relationship. In > contrast, a gifting relationship is not responded in kind (at least not > initially). As Mary Douglas says in her intro to Mauss' book The Gift, > "there are no free gifts". Note that this is a very different statement > from Milton Friedman's "there ain't no such thing as a free lunch". Douglas > means that the gift creates a sense of obligation and thus a relationship. > As much as we might understand this in intimate spaces, as Americans in > public spaces all we know are exchange relationships (people reject > healthcare for all b.c. "why should I have to pay for healthcare for > someone else", ditto for education (yes, there is a movement in the US to > get rid of public education!)). This is the logic behind the out-of-hand > rejection of socialism - it does not make sense in the logic of exchange. > And, of course, taxes are justified only in as much as you "get" something > for it (roads, police, fire department, public transport, etc.) and > increasingly tax dollars are getting hyper-localized so that you get > precisely what you pay for and don't pay a dime more (e.g., gated > communities with private police force, fire dept, etc). > > Interestingly I just today was privilege to hear a colleague present about > his work in Papua New Guinea (the island of Missima, in the Massim region - > the site of the Kula ring made famous to Westerners by Malinowski - and > yes, the Kula ring still operates today). He noted that Missimans can't > understand why Americans (and other Westerners) are so interested in > engaging in exchanges that cut ties (e.g., buying things from them and then > running off). And when Missimans do try to engage in gifting relationships > with Americans, they are struck by how quickly the Americans run off, never > to return (what idiots those Americans are!). It is absolutely baffling to > them since they spend their days building relationships with others. Why > would someone not want relationships with others? > > Can we perhaps understand their bafflement? > > And what, then, is human development within a world where relations of > exchange are everything? (and thankfully, it isn't total, we Americans > still view kin relations as something more than an exchange relation). > > Anyway, that's at least two times two cents too much. And terribly > inchoate. Far too "off the cuff". Apologies. > > -greg > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 11:19 AM Helena Worthen > wrote: > >> thanks! >> >> Helena Worthen >> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >> >> >> >> >> >> On Apr 27, 2020, at 7:48 PM, Andy Blunden wrote: >> >> How about this Helena?: >> >> "Time is the room of human development. A man who has no free time to >> dispose of, whose whole lifetime, apart from the mere physical >> interruptions by sleep, meals, and so forth, is absorbed by his labour for >> the capitalist, is less than a beast of burden. He is a mere machine for >> producing Foreign Wealth, broken in body and brutalized in mind. Yet the >> whole history of modern industry shows that capital, if not checked, will >> recklessly and ruthlessly work to cast down the whole working class to this >> utmost state of degradation." >> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1865/value-price-profit/ch03.htm__;!!Mih3wA!Vfj_g790RH5sVC_7KZoNsxS048YUxkftWGUoTpE5dBkC-2m_wn4gH3jX0dqJzE7HQ3jESQ$ >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *Andy Blunden* >> Hegel for Social Movements >> >> Home Page >> >> On 28/04/2020 5:23 am, Helena Worthen wrote: >> >> Andy?s paper has basically 4 parts. One a flyby overview of the history >> of the US ? this is where the majority of criticisms by people I know are >> showing up because people have different versions of that history. Then the >> argument that with the US going down as one of the poles of global >> leadership. My friends and family agree with this and are all, as >> Americans, offering examples of how they have experienced this. Andy notes >> that there is an empty spot at the top that hasn?t been taken yet. Then >> comes his COVID-19 point, that this is a global moment in which the whole >> world is participating. Most of the xmca discussion has been about that so >> far, if I?m not mistaken. And finally a challenge to foresee what we will >> learn from this experience. >> >> OK, now trying to forsee what we can learn is what I?m doing. So here is >> my question, appropriate for this list since we are all interested in >> education. I found myself writing the following, as part of describing the >> way a workforce can be intentionally divided into feuding packs of enemies >> so that we can?t take action in solidarity. We?re referring to ?the >> distortions of human development under capitalism? and say that ?we see >> this in its sharpest form in the for-profit part of the higher education >> industry. We have to look past the distortion to find the original, human >> connection?.? >> >> One of our readers asks where this concept came from. I don?t remember!! >> It makes sense, though, doesn?t? Anyone have any idea where it came from? >> So far I?m saying, >> >> The concept of ?distortions of human development under capitalism? >> depends on looking at human development as occurring within a social, >> historical and cultural framework ? not just the development of individuals >> on their own or within a family or even a school, but within a society. >> Specifically we mean psychological and cognitive disabilities ranging from >> lack of empathy, envy, despair, alienation and bullying to obesity, eating >> disorders and stress-related auto-immune illness. >> >> Thanks ? H >> >> >> >> >> Helena Worthen >> h >> >> elenaworthen@gmail.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Apr 27, 2020, at 9:29 AM, Helena Worthen >> wrote: >> >> I have been circulating Andy?s paper among close friends and family to >> generate discussion. What is mostly coming back is confirmation of the >> general arc, with examples from personal experience, but some disagreement >> about cause. These are ?inside? views ? meaning, people who are US citizens >> talking about us, so these are experiences of the passing of an era and >> what they look like from inside. >> >> About a year ago I realized that, for better or worse, I identify as ?an >> American.? And I don?t mean North American. >> >> Chris Appy?s book, *American Reckoning*, is a pretty good history that >> takes us from the 1940s up to Obama and tracks the hole we fell into with >> the Vietnam War. For people of my generation (BA 1965 ? and I mention that >> date rather than when I was born because 1965 connects to the draft, the >> lottery, the anti-war demonstrations, the asssinations, etc etc) the story >> told with the Vietnam War in the foreground connects very tightly to lived >> experience. >> >> Helena Worthen >> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >> >> >> >> >> >> On Apr 22, 2020, at 4:30 AM, Andy Blunden wrote: >> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/American-Century.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!Vfj_g790RH5sVC_7KZoNsxS048YUxkftWGUoTpE5dBkC-2m_wn4gH3jX0dqJzE4jOd0F2Q$ >> [ethicalpolitics.org] >> >> >> Andy >> -- >> ------------------------------ >> *Andy Blunden* >> Hegel for Social Movements [brill.com] >> >> Home Page [ethicalpolitics.org] >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!Vfj_g790RH5sVC_7KZoNsxS048YUxkftWGUoTpE5dBkC-2m_wn4gH3jX0dqJzE4yJTl_4w$ https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!Vfj_g790RH5sVC_7KZoNsxS048YUxkftWGUoTpE5dBkC-2m_wn4gH3jX0dqJzE5oiK3EtA$ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200430/e4b07a04/attachment-0001.html From greg.a.thompson@gmail.com Thu Apr 30 10:49:37 2020 From: greg.a.thompson@gmail.com (Greg Thompson) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2020 11:49:37 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: As of 2020, the American Century is Over In-Reply-To: <6EA7437D-09DC-4B52-B00B-218E674D1B85@gmail.com> References: <85fc2557-3931-47ff-12d4-267e9281a955@marxists.org> <7F106666-4E69-4606-AAB0-10EE9E7A733D@gmail.com> <255B3664-FD24-4025-9854-0B5D8EFA2962@gmail.com> <1c1c059f-f9a9-3606-ae1c-56d0626dd7e6@marxists.org> <4BF1F09B-8C62-4B6B-A573-27F80EDBF7D4@gmail.com> <6EA7437D-09DC-4B52-B00B-218E674D1B85@gmail.com> Message-ID: Helena, Yes, that was what I was pointing to. I think Martin would prefer if we were a bit more careful about not using "capitalism" as a plastic word that can be fitted as an explanation for everything bad in the world (as some people like to do with Trump - and warning, I'm often tempted to do both of these). I think he's right about that. All the more reason why we need to document the micro-processes of capitalism in thickly descriptive ways (as you have done in your posts and in your writing). I agree with Anthony that now is not a time for predictions but a time to document what is happening on the ground right now and maybe someday later we might begin to understand what this moment means (in some sense or other). Wisdom comes late, the owl of minerva and all that... -greg On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 10:43 AM Helena Worthen wrote: > Greg, I think you are drawing attention to one of the consequences of the > distortion of human development under capitalism. If that?s what you mean, > then yes, the phenomenon of relationships that dead-end when a commodity > exchange has taken place, rather than moving in a circle of reciprocal > contribution, would be an example. > > A small relatively new private music school near us apparently has not > been paying either its state unemployment insurance payroll taxes or > making its equivalent contribution to a special fund set up for > non-profits. Now, with the lockdown, it is having to deal with reimbursing > the state for unemployment claims by its laid-off teachers. If you draw the > circle of reciprocal contribution around this situation, look at what gets > linked up. Students, their families, teachers, the management of the > school, the enormous Employment Development Department at the state level, > the legislature?the circle is gigantic, elements of it way beyond the > horizon of what most people linked up in it imagine. > > In this case, the ?cut and run? took place at the point where the Board of > the school decided somehow to assume they could risk taking on the > obligation of paying unemployment benefits rather than pay the payroll > tax. Easy to do ? it?s a small non-profit and this is something that gets > easily overlooked by inexperienced managers. > > Nevertheless, the distortion that I?m thinking of ? the fear, anger and > resentment that pile up when laid-off teachers apply for UI benefits? would > be a consequence of capitalism. > > Helena Worthen > h > > elenaworthen@gmail.com > > > > > > > > On Apr 29, 2020, at 7:53 AM, Martin Packer wrote: > > Hi Greg, > > Are you suggesting that you would like to be able to build a personal > relationship with each and every one of your students? And with all your > colleagues at the university.? And all the staff at the local supermarket? > And all the people who work to send you packages from Amazon? And ?. > > That?s to say, there are reasons why humans have added ?anonymous? > interactions to the personal and interpersonal relationship that (as you > acknowledge) we still build and maintain. > > Martin > > > > On Apr 28, 2020, at 10:13 PM, Greg Thompson > wrote: > > Helena, > > It sounds like you are describing the commodity fetish. The labor of the > professor is no longer seen as their own production. Instead it is seen > that the professor simply draws from some "body of knowledge" or a > credential that has a particular (monetary) value. As with any good (i.e., > bad) commodity relation, even the exchange relations between buyer and > seller (professor and student) are hidden and the professor is merely a > conduit to that valuable knowledge or credential. What the professor has to > offer is MONETIZED, perhaps we might say that the professor themself is > monetized, even BRANDED (take a look at the web pages of young faculty and > you'll see how important "brand yourself" has become in the academy). The > professor and her work are understood in terms of market value, return on > investment, earning potential of students. > > Students today understand their task as being a good consumer; to get at > least equal value from professors as they pay in tuition. (granted much of > this is via a credential, but the professors are a big part of what stands > behind the university's credential). You'll hear students frequently > complain (rightly so) about how much they are paying for their education > followed by some specific complaint about a professor. > > This is all part of a larger system in which this is understood as how the > world works. You get what you pay for. There ain't no such thing as a free > lunch. And so on. Can we blame students for wanting to know what they are > going to "get" for the money that they pay for college, and note that this > gets even more intense during hard economic times, of which we are deep > into right this moment (although the fear usually takes a semester or two > before people start fleeing the humanities and the social sciences to > business, engineering, computer science, or pre-anything). > > (and Lave and Mcdermott's article on Estranged Labor Learning might be > worth revisiting in this regard?) > > In addition to Marx's commodity fetish, a related and interesting way to > think of this is in terms of Marcel Mauss' notion of gift vs. exchange > economy (if you'll allow me to oversimplify a bit). The main difference > is that an exchange economy involves transactions that are always > calculated to be of exactly equal value. The $13 pair of shoes I buy at the > store are worth EXACTLY $13. Each party to the transaction gets their > "money's worth". Sounds great right? Fair, to be sure. Except it means that > there is no relationship established between the parties. After the > exchange, the parties no longer have any meaningful relationship. In > contrast, a gifting relationship is not responded in kind (at least not > initially). As Mary Douglas says in her intro to Mauss' book The Gift, > "there are no free gifts". Note that this is a very different statement > from Milton Friedman's "there ain't no such thing as a free lunch". Douglas > means that the gift creates a sense of obligation and thus a relationship. > As much as we might understand this in intimate spaces, as Americans in > public spaces all we know are exchange relationships (people reject > healthcare for all b.c. "why should I have to pay for healthcare for > someone else", ditto for education (yes, there is a movement in the US to > get rid of public education!)). This is the logic behind the out-of-hand > rejection of socialism - it does not make sense in the logic of exchange. > And, of course, taxes are justified only in as much as you "get" something > for it (roads, police, fire department, public transport, etc.) and > increasingly tax dollars are getting hyper-localized so that you get > precisely what you pay for and don't pay a dime more (e.g., gated > communities with private police force, fire dept, etc). > > Interestingly I just today was privilege to hear a colleague present about > his work in Papua New Guinea (the island of Missima, in the Massim region - > the site of the Kula ring made famous to Westerners by Malinowski - and > yes, the Kula ring still operates today). He noted that Missimans can't > understand why Americans (and other Westerners) are so interested in > engaging in exchanges that cut ties (e.g., buying things from them and then > running off). And when Missimans do try to engage in gifting relationships > with Americans, they are struck by how quickly the Americans run off, never > to return (what idiots those Americans are!). It is absolutely baffling to > them since they spend their days building relationships with others. Why > would someone not want relationships with others? > > Can we perhaps understand their bafflement? > > And what, then, is human development within a world where relations of > exchange are everything? (and thankfully, it isn't total, we Americans > still view kin relations as something more than an exchange relation). > > Anyway, that's at least two times two cents too much. And terribly > inchoate. Far too "off the cuff". Apologies. > > -greg > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 11:19 AM Helena Worthen > wrote: > >> thanks! >> >> Helena Worthen >> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >> >> >> >> >> >> On Apr 27, 2020, at 7:48 PM, Andy Blunden wrote: >> >> How about this Helena?: >> >> "Time is the room of human development. A man who has no free time to >> dispose of, whose whole lifetime, apart from the mere physical >> interruptions by sleep, meals, and so forth, is absorbed by his labour for >> the capitalist, is less than a beast of burden. He is a mere machine for >> producing Foreign Wealth, broken in body and brutalized in mind. Yet the >> whole history of modern industry shows that capital, if not checked, will >> recklessly and ruthlessly work to cast down the whole working class to this >> utmost state of degradation." >> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1865/value-price-profit/ch03.htm__;!!Mih3wA!UxSEIBKzWHlQF6BofgcDwh4twgOTTVr4fTm1Bq2kVTGp9BYl3EEutT1TNFMom7Lwo2q2qw$ >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *Andy Blunden* >> Hegel for Social Movements >> >> Home Page >> >> On 28/04/2020 5:23 am, Helena Worthen wrote: >> >> Andy?s paper has basically 4 parts. One a flyby overview of the history >> of the US ? this is where the majority of criticisms by people I know are >> showing up because people have different versions of that history. Then the >> argument that with the US going down as one of the poles of global >> leadership. My friends and family agree with this and are all, as >> Americans, offering examples of how they have experienced this. Andy notes >> that there is an empty spot at the top that hasn?t been taken yet. Then >> comes his COVID-19 point, that this is a global moment in which the whole >> world is participating. Most of the xmca discussion has been about that so >> far, if I?m not mistaken. And finally a challenge to foresee what we will >> learn from this experience. >> >> OK, now trying to forsee what we can learn is what I?m doing. So here is >> my question, appropriate for this list since we are all interested in >> education. I found myself writing the following, as part of describing the >> way a workforce can be intentionally divided into feuding packs of enemies >> so that we can?t take action in solidarity. We?re referring to ?the >> distortions of human development under capitalism? and say that ?we see >> this in its sharpest form in the for-profit part of the higher education >> industry. We have to look past the distortion to find the original, human >> connection?.? >> >> One of our readers asks where this concept came from. I don?t remember!! >> It makes sense, though, doesn?t? Anyone have any idea where it came from? >> So far I?m saying, >> >> The concept of ?distortions of human development under capitalism? >> depends on looking at human development as occurring within a social, >> historical and cultural framework ? not just the development of individuals >> on their own or within a family or even a school, but within a society. >> Specifically we mean psychological and cognitive disabilities ranging from >> lack of empathy, envy, despair, alienation and bullying to obesity, eating >> disorders and stress-related auto-immune illness. >> >> Thanks ? H >> >> >> >> >> Helena Worthen >> h >> >> elenaworthen@gmail.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Apr 27, 2020, at 9:29 AM, Helena Worthen >> wrote: >> >> I have been circulating Andy?s paper among close friends and family to >> generate discussion. What is mostly coming back is confirmation of the >> general arc, with examples from personal experience, but some disagreement >> about cause. These are ?inside? views ? meaning, people who are US citizens >> talking about us, so these are experiences of the passing of an era and >> what they look like from inside. >> >> About a year ago I realized that, for better or worse, I identify as ?an >> American.? And I don?t mean North American. >> >> Chris Appy?s book, *American Reckoning*, is a pretty good history that >> takes us from the 1940s up to Obama and tracks the hole we fell into with >> the Vietnam War. For people of my generation (BA 1965 ? and I mention that >> date rather than when I was born because 1965 connects to the draft, the >> lottery, the anti-war demonstrations, the asssinations, etc etc) the story >> told with the Vietnam War in the foreground connects very tightly to lived >> experience. >> >> Helena Worthen >> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >> >> >> >> >> >> On Apr 22, 2020, at 4:30 AM, Andy Blunden wrote: >> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/American-Century.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!UxSEIBKzWHlQF6BofgcDwh4twgOTTVr4fTm1Bq2kVTGp9BYl3EEutT1TNFMom7K0xRphBQ$ >> [ethicalpolitics.org] >> >> >> Andy >> -- >> ------------------------------ >> *Andy Blunden* >> Hegel for Social Movements [brill.com] >> >> Home Page [ethicalpolitics.org] >> >> >> >> >> >> > > -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!UxSEIBKzWHlQF6BofgcDwh4twgOTTVr4fTm1Bq2kVTGp9BYl3EEutT1TNFMom7LAbgjSHQ$ https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!UxSEIBKzWHlQF6BofgcDwh4twgOTTVr4fTm1Bq2kVTGp9BYl3EEutT1TNFMom7Joq5TxXg$ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200430/a6042a9e/attachment.html From helenaworthen@gmail.com Thu Apr 30 10:59:14 2020 From: helenaworthen@gmail.com (Helena Worthen) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2020 10:59:14 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: As of 2020, the American Century is Over In-Reply-To: References: <85fc2557-3931-47ff-12d4-267e9281a955@marxists.org> <7F106666-4E69-4606-AAB0-10EE9E7A733D@gmail.com> <255B3664-FD24-4025-9854-0B5D8EFA2962@gmail.com> <1c1c059f-f9a9-3606-ae1c-56d0626dd7e6@marxists.org> <4BF1F09B-8C62-4B6B-A573-27F80EDBF7D4@gmail.com> <6EA7437D-09DC-4B52-B00B-218E674D1B85@gmail.com> <8BB24F8E-61F8-4181-B071-CC8AB20CF0A9@cantab.net> Message-ID: <616B25C5-D590-467D-9747-0B0D21217139@gmail.com> Greg, Martin ? The circle of relationships that I described was not one-on-one personal relationships. They are a combination of personal, contractual, organizational and state-to-enterprise-to-population-to-individual relationships. These are as much ?relationships? as who talks to whom individually. Tracing the circle of commitment, obligation, security and reciprocity is how you can see the relationships. This is the ?circle of reciprocal contribution? I was talking about. These relationships take an unthinkable amount of creativity and effort to build. Another example (and I?ll quit if people aren?t interested): OSHA (Occupational Safety and Health Agency) sets standards that have to be upheld regarding working conditions. The idea is to protect workers from hazards. I?m sure I don?t need to make a list. But where do these standards come from? Someone has to identify the problem, do the research, write the proposal, get the plan through the legislature, and then train people to enforce it. Every single step of the way, it?s a relationship of one kind or another ?sometimes it?s one-on-one, sometimes it?s an attorney bringing a lawsuit, sometimes it?s someone making a speech to a crowd or a journalist photographing an accident scene. It?s a web of relationships. Helena Worthen helenaworthen.wordpress.com > On Apr 30, 2020, at 10:44 AM, Greg Thompson wrote: > > Martin, > > I'm delighted by your optimism and hopefulness about the U.S.! > (particularly for someone who left the U.S.! "It's a lovely place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there"). > and, of course, nostalgia has its problems (as you might imagine, my colleague's experiences in PNG were not all flowers and roses). > > But it is at least something to hold onto. > > Perhaps you could share where you place your hopes? or what is your long duree visions of things (either as they HAVE happened) or as they might happen? > > Based on what I'm seeing circulating among friends (both in person and on social media), I am becoming increasingly pessimistic about the hopes for America. As just one recent example, there is a video that was circulating in which two California doctors present a bunch of numbers to show that the coronavirus is not at all a serious threat. The only trouble is, their calculations are totally mistaken (and not only are they mistaken but they do two different calculations in two totally different ways). And yet the video has been posted and reposted as "truth" against the fictional numbers that the WHO is putting out (in cahoots with Bill Gates). Not only that, there has been news coverage of the video that does not point out the fundamental flaws. It's like someone says that 2+2=5 and then conclude that Trump is the right president and then claims that they should get equal coverage to those people who say 2+2=4. > > And then to add fuel to the fire, Facebook and Youtube have insisted on taking these videos down because they are propogating false information about the coronavirus. And guess what the coronavirus deniers are now saying that this is further evidence of the conspiracy of the WHO and Bill Gates! > > So this general trend, among many other things, is what makes me incredibly pessimistic about things and which makes nostalgia incredibly appealing (although my nostalgia is to Make America Decent Again). > > Anyway, my apologies for writing gobbly-gook, I'm not editing these at all. But I'd be delighted to hear your non-nostalgia forms of hope (and perhaps your hope is not at all a hope for American? Maybe quite the opposite? In which case what I've described above is precisely what's needed!). > > And regardless of hope, how do you see this present moment in cultural-historical terms? > > -greg > > > > On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 12:29 PM Martin Packer > wrote: > My point was about the problematic nature of the hegemony of exchange-based relations (i.e. the capitalist relation in which "what value can I get from you" - you might call it "The Art of the Deal"!). At the very least, might you agree that it is a problem if we see ALL human relationships in these terms? > > I don?t think it could ever happen, Greg. So I?m not going to worry about it. > > I do seem to be disagreeing with everyone on xmca these days! Perhaps it?s my way of coping. Perhaps it?s because I think that if there was ever a time for thinking things through carefully it is now. > > Surely impersonal anonymous kinds of interactions must have begun as soon as anything large enough to be called a city came into existence. I?m not a big fan of Dunbar?s number, but surely there are limits to the number of people with whom one can have an personal relationship, and those limits were exceeded at least 6,000 years ago. > > And is xmca a place of personal relationships? I have met in person less than 5 people on this list, I think. That?s to say, we make constant, fruitful and enjoyable use of impersonal relationships, including here. I for one wouldn?t wish to return to a time when everyone lived in villages of less than 150 people. > > And what I remember from Marx is that the original sin of capitalism is alienation of people not from one another but from their own labor. (Though the former may be one of the consequences of the latter.) Of course exploitation didn?t start with capitalism either, though wage labor under capitalism is a frighteningly efficient kind of exploitation. But if I had been born in feudal times I might have been laboring for the lord of the manor, who probably didn?t know me by name. If born in Roman times I might have been a slave, working for the lady of the villa. > > I appreciate that we are all experiencing a certain nostalgia for the good old days, of perhaps 4 months ago. And that those of us in lockdown are craving genuine personal interaction. But I?m not convinced that there ever was a golden age, a time when development was not distorted and people were not exploited. It is true that Pleistocene hunter-gatherers seem to have had a face-to-face kind of community in which collaboration and sharing were central. But even they practiced infanticide and left their old behind when they moved to a new camp. I don?t think I would have lasted then as long as I have now. > > Martin > > > >> On Apr 29, 2020, at 11:41 AM, Helena Worthen > wrote: >> >> Greg, I think you are drawing attention to one of the consequences of the distortion of human development under capitalism. If that?s what you mean, then yes, the phenomenon of relationships that dead-end when a commodity exchange has taken place, rather than moving in a circle of reciprocal contribution, would be an example. >> >> A small relatively new private music school near us apparently has not been paying either its state unemployment insurance payroll taxes or making its equivalent contribution to a special fund set up for non-profits. Now, with the lockdown, it is having to deal with reimbursing the state for unemployment claims by its laid-off teachers. If you draw the circle of reciprocal contribution around this situation, look at what gets linked up. Students, their families, teachers, the management of the school, the enormous Employment Development Department at the state level, the legislature?the circle is gigantic, elements of it way beyond the horizon of what most people linked up in it imagine. >> >> In this case, the ?cut and run? took place at the point where the Board of the school decided somehow to assume they could risk taking on the obligation of paying unemployment benefits rather than pay the payroll tax. Easy to do ? it?s a small non-profit and this is something that gets easily overlooked by inexperienced managers. >> >> Nevertheless, the distortion that I?m thinking of ? the fear, anger and resentment that pile up when laid-off teachers apply for UI benefits? would be a consequence of capitalism. >> >> Helena Worthen >> h elenaworthen@gmail.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Apr 29, 2020, at 7:53 AM, Martin Packer > wrote: >>> >>> Hi Greg, >>> >>> Are you suggesting that you would like to be able to build a personal relationship with each and every one of your students? And with all your colleagues at the university.? And all the staff at the local supermarket? And all the people who work to send you packages from Amazon? And ?. >>> >>> That?s to say, there are reasons why humans have added ?anonymous? interactions to the personal and interpersonal relationship that (as you acknowledge) we still build and maintain. >>> >>> Martin >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Apr 28, 2020, at 10:13 PM, Greg Thompson > wrote: >>>> >>>> Helena, >>>> >>>> It sounds like you are describing the commodity fetish. The labor of the professor is no longer seen as their own production. Instead it is seen that the professor simply draws from some "body of knowledge" or a credential that has a particular (monetary) value. As with any good (i.e., bad) commodity relation, even the exchange relations between buyer and seller (professor and student) are hidden and the professor is merely a conduit to that valuable knowledge or credential. What the professor has to offer is MONETIZED, perhaps we might say that the professor themself is monetized, even BRANDED (take a look at the web pages of young faculty and you'll see how important "brand yourself" has become in the academy). The professor and her work are understood in terms of market value, return on investment, earning potential of students. >>>> >>>> Students today understand their task as being a good consumer; to get at least equal value from professors as they pay in tuition. (granted much of this is via a credential, but the professors are a big part of what stands behind the university's credential). You'll hear students frequently complain (rightly so) about how much they are paying for their education followed by some specific complaint about a professor. >>>> >>>> This is all part of a larger system in which this is understood as how the world works. You get what you pay for. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. And so on. Can we blame students for wanting to know what they are going to "get" for the money that they pay for college, and note that this gets even more intense during hard economic times, of which we are deep into right this moment (although the fear usually takes a semester or two before people start fleeing the humanities and the social sciences to business, engineering, computer science, or pre-anything). >>>> >>>> (and Lave and Mcdermott's article on Estranged Labor Learning might be worth revisiting in this regard?) >>>> >>>> In addition to Marx's commodity fetish, a related and interesting way to think of this is in terms of Marcel Mauss' notion of gift vs. exchange economy (if you'll allow me to oversimplify a bit). The main difference is that an exchange economy involves transactions that are always calculated to be of exactly equal value. The $13 pair of shoes I buy at the store are worth EXACTLY $13. Each party to the transaction gets their "money's worth". Sounds great right? Fair, to be sure. Except it means that there is no relationship established between the parties. After the exchange, the parties no longer have any meaningful relationship. In contrast, a gifting relationship is not responded in kind (at least not initially). As Mary Douglas says in her intro to Mauss' book The Gift, "there are no free gifts". Note that this is a very different statement from Milton Friedman's "there ain't no such thing as a free lunch". Douglas means that the gift creates a sense of obligation and thus a relationship. As much as we might understand this in intimate spaces, as Americans in public spaces all we know are exchange relationships (people reject healthcare for all b.c. "why should I have to pay for healthcare for someone else", ditto for education (yes, there is a movement in the US to get rid of public education!)). This is the logic behind the out-of-hand rejection of socialism - it does not make sense in the logic of exchange. And, of course, taxes are justified only in as much as you "get" something for it (roads, police, fire department, public transport, etc.) and increasingly tax dollars are getting hyper-localized so that you get precisely what you pay for and don't pay a dime more (e.g., gated communities with private police force, fire dept, etc). >>>> >>>> Interestingly I just today was privilege to hear a colleague present about his work in Papua New Guinea (the island of Missima, in the Massim region - the site of the Kula ring made famous to Westerners by Malinowski - and yes, the Kula ring still operates today). He noted that Missimans can't understand why Americans (and other Westerners) are so interested in engaging in exchanges that cut ties (e.g., buying things from them and then running off). And when Missimans do try to engage in gifting relationships with Americans, they are struck by how quickly the Americans run off, never to return (what idiots those Americans are!). It is absolutely baffling to them since they spend their days building relationships with others. Why would someone not want relationships with others? >>>> >>>> Can we perhaps understand their bafflement? >>>> >>>> And what, then, is human development within a world where relations of exchange are everything? (and thankfully, it isn't total, we Americans still view kin relations as something more than an exchange relation). >>>> >>>> Anyway, that's at least two times two cents too much. And terribly inchoate. Far too "off the cuff". Apologies. >>>> >>>> -greg >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 11:19 AM Helena Worthen > wrote: >>>> thanks! >>>> >>>> Helena Worthen >>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Apr 27, 2020, at 7:48 PM, Andy Blunden > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> How about this Helena?: >>>>> "Time is the room of human development. A man who has no free time to dispose of, whose whole lifetime, apart from the mere physical interruptions by sleep, meals, and so forth, is absorbed by his labour for the capitalist, is less than a beast of burden. He is a mere machine for producing Foreign Wealth, broken in body and brutalized in mind. Yet the whole history of modern industry shows that capital, if not checked, will recklessly and ruthlessly work to cast down the whole working class to this utmost state of degradation." >>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1865/value-price-profit/ch03.htm__;!!Mih3wA!RnbuAh52aLoQlR7CQmrMD3v_ARgnLMZ3jAkLzee3D4NHc48NsmbL49C4rt6I1q34v3N7-g$ >>>>> Andy Blunden >>>>> Hegel for Social Movements >>>>> Home Page >>>>> On 28/04/2020 5:23 am, Helena Worthen wrote: >>>>>> Andy?s paper has basically 4 parts. One a flyby overview of the history of the US ? this is where the majority of criticisms by people I know are showing up because people have different versions of that history. Then the argument that with the US going down as one of the poles of global leadership. My friends and family agree with this and are all, as Americans, offering examples of how they have experienced this. Andy notes that there is an empty spot at the top that hasn?t been taken yet. Then comes his COVID-19 point, that this is a global moment in which the whole world is participating. Most of the xmca discussion has been about that so far, if I?m not mistaken. And finally a challenge to foresee what we will learn from this experience. >>>>>> >>>>>> OK, now trying to forsee what we can learn is what I?m doing. So here is my question, appropriate for this list since we are all interested in education. I found myself writing the following, as part of describing the way a workforce can be intentionally divided into feuding packs of enemies so that we can?t take action in solidarity. We?re referring to ?the distortions of human development under capitalism? and say that ?we see this in its sharpest form in the for-profit part of the higher education industry. We have to look past the distortion to find the original, human connection?.? >>>>>> >>>>>> One of our readers asks where this concept came from. I don?t remember!! It makes sense, though, doesn?t? Anyone have any idea where it came from? So far I?m saying, >>>>>> >>>>>> The concept of ?distortions of human development under capitalism? depends on looking at human development as occurring within a social, historical and cultural framework ? not just the development of individuals on their own or within a family or even a school, but within a society. Specifically we mean psychological and cognitive disabilities ranging from lack of empathy, envy, despair, alienation and bullying to obesity, eating disorders and stress-related auto-immune illness. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks ? H >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Helena Worthen >>>>>> h elenaworthen@gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Apr 27, 2020, at 9:29 AM, Helena Worthen > wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have been circulating Andy?s paper among close friends and family to generate discussion. What is mostly coming back is confirmation of the general arc, with examples from personal experience, but some disagreement about cause. These are ?inside? views ? meaning, people who are US citizens talking about us, so these are experiences of the passing of an era and what they look like from inside. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> About a year ago I realized that, for better or worse, I identify as ?an American.? And I don?t mean North American. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Chris Appy?s book, American Reckoning, is a pretty good history that takes us from the 1940s up to Obama and tracks the hole we fell into with the Vietnam War. For people of my generation (BA 1965 ? and I mention that date rather than when I was born because 1965 connects to the draft, the lottery, the anti-war demonstrations, the asssinations, etc etc) the story told with the Vietnam War in the foreground connects very tightly to lived experience. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Helena Worthen >>>>>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Apr 22, 2020, at 4:30 AM, Andy Blunden > wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/American-Century.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!RnbuAh52aLoQlR7CQmrMD3v_ARgnLMZ3jAkLzee3D4NHc48NsmbL49C4rt6I1q1NFSCSPg$ [ethicalpolitics.org] >>>>>>>> Andy >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Andy Blunden >>>>>>>> Hegel for Social Movements [brill.com] >>>>>>>> Home Page [ethicalpolitics.org] >>>>>> >>>> >>> >> > > > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!RnbuAh52aLoQlR7CQmrMD3v_ARgnLMZ3jAkLzee3D4NHc48NsmbL49C4rt6I1q3GN9U8Mg$ > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!RnbuAh52aLoQlR7CQmrMD3v_ARgnLMZ3jAkLzee3D4NHc48NsmbL49C4rt6I1q3s9ZlwUA$ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200430/6c77ca9e/attachment.html From mpacker@cantab.net Thu Apr 30 11:42:01 2020 From: mpacker@cantab.net (Martin Packer) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2020 13:42:01 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: As of 2020, the American Century is Over In-Reply-To: <616B25C5-D590-467D-9747-0B0D21217139@gmail.com> References: <85fc2557-3931-47ff-12d4-267e9281a955@marxists.org> <7F106666-4E69-4606-AAB0-10EE9E7A733D@gmail.com> <255B3664-FD24-4025-9854-0B5D8EFA2962@gmail.com> <1c1c059f-f9a9-3606-ae1c-56d0626dd7e6@marxists.org> <4BF1F09B-8C62-4B6B-A573-27F80EDBF7D4@gmail.com> <6EA7437D-09DC-4B52-B00B-218E674D1B85@gmail.com> <8BB24F8E-61F8-4181-B071-CC8AB20CF0A9@cantab.net> <616B25C5-D590-467D-9747-0B0D21217139@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Helena, Help me understand. You?re suggesting that capitalism has destroyed "circles of reciprocal contribution? such as this one? A small relatively new private music school near us apparently has not been paying either its state unemployment insurance payroll taxes or making its equivalent contribution to a special fund set up for non-profits. Now, with the lockdown, it is having to deal with reimbursing the state for unemployment claims by its laid-off teachers. If you draw the circle of reciprocal contribution around this situation, look at what gets linked up. Students, their families, teachers, the management of the school, the enormous Employment Development Department at the state level, the legislature?the circle is gigantic, elements of it way beyond the horizon of what most people linked up in it imagine. Martin > On Apr 30, 2020, at 12:59 PM, Helena Worthen wrote: > > Greg, Martin ? The circle of relationships that I described was not one-on-one personal relationships. They are a combination of personal, contractual, organizational and state-to-enterprise-to-population-to-individual relationships. These are as much ?relationships? as who talks to whom individually. Tracing the circle of commitment, obligation, security and reciprocity is how you can see the relationships. This is the ?circle of reciprocal contribution? I was talking about. > > These relationships take an unthinkable amount of creativity and effort to build. > > Another example (and I?ll quit if people aren?t interested): OSHA (Occupational Safety and Health Agency) sets standards that have to be upheld regarding working conditions. The idea is to protect workers from hazards. I?m sure I don?t need to make a list. But where do these standards come from? Someone has to identify the problem, do the research, write the proposal, get the plan through the legislature, and then train people to enforce it. Every single step of the way, it?s a relationship of one kind or another ?sometimes it?s one-on-one, sometimes it?s an attorney bringing a lawsuit, sometimes it?s someone making a speech to a crowd or a journalist photographing an accident scene. It?s a web of relationships. > > > Helena Worthen > helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > > > >> On Apr 30, 2020, at 10:44 AM, Greg Thompson > wrote: >> >> Martin, >> >> I'm delighted by your optimism and hopefulness about the U.S.! >> (particularly for someone who left the U.S.! "It's a lovely place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there"). >> and, of course, nostalgia has its problems (as you might imagine, my colleague's experiences in PNG were not all flowers and roses). >> >> But it is at least something to hold onto. >> >> Perhaps you could share where you place your hopes? or what is your long duree visions of things (either as they HAVE happened) or as they might happen? >> >> Based on what I'm seeing circulating among friends (both in person and on social media), I am becoming increasingly pessimistic about the hopes for America. As just one recent example, there is a video that was circulating in which two California doctors present a bunch of numbers to show that the coronavirus is not at all a serious threat. The only trouble is, their calculations are totally mistaken (and not only are they mistaken but they do two different calculations in two totally different ways). And yet the video has been posted and reposted as "truth" against the fictional numbers that the WHO is putting out (in cahoots with Bill Gates). Not only that, there has been news coverage of the video that does not point out the fundamental flaws. It's like someone says that 2+2=5 and then conclude that Trump is the right president and then claims that they should get equal coverage to those people who say 2+2=4. >> >> And then to add fuel to the fire, Facebook and Youtube have insisted on taking these videos down because they are propogating false information about the coronavirus. And guess what the coronavirus deniers are now saying that this is further evidence of the conspiracy of the WHO and Bill Gates! >> >> So this general trend, among many other things, is what makes me incredibly pessimistic about things and which makes nostalgia incredibly appealing (although my nostalgia is to Make America Decent Again). >> >> Anyway, my apologies for writing gobbly-gook, I'm not editing these at all. But I'd be delighted to hear your non-nostalgia forms of hope (and perhaps your hope is not at all a hope for American? Maybe quite the opposite? In which case what I've described above is precisely what's needed!). >> >> And regardless of hope, how do you see this present moment in cultural-historical terms? >> >> -greg >> >> >> >> On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 12:29 PM Martin Packer > wrote: >> My point was about the problematic nature of the hegemony of exchange-based relations (i.e. the capitalist relation in which "what value can I get from you" - you might call it "The Art of the Deal"!). At the very least, might you agree that it is a problem if we see ALL human relationships in these terms? >> >> I don?t think it could ever happen, Greg. So I?m not going to worry about it. >> >> I do seem to be disagreeing with everyone on xmca these days! Perhaps it?s my way of coping. Perhaps it?s because I think that if there was ever a time for thinking things through carefully it is now. >> >> Surely impersonal anonymous kinds of interactions must have begun as soon as anything large enough to be called a city came into existence. I?m not a big fan of Dunbar?s number, but surely there are limits to the number of people with whom one can have an personal relationship, and those limits were exceeded at least 6,000 years ago. >> >> And is xmca a place of personal relationships? I have met in person less than 5 people on this list, I think. That?s to say, we make constant, fruitful and enjoyable use of impersonal relationships, including here. I for one wouldn?t wish to return to a time when everyone lived in villages of less than 150 people. >> >> And what I remember from Marx is that the original sin of capitalism is alienation of people not from one another but from their own labor. (Though the former may be one of the consequences of the latter.) Of course exploitation didn?t start with capitalism either, though wage labor under capitalism is a frighteningly efficient kind of exploitation. But if I had been born in feudal times I might have been laboring for the lord of the manor, who probably didn?t know me by name. If born in Roman times I might have been a slave, working for the lady of the villa. >> >> I appreciate that we are all experiencing a certain nostalgia for the good old days, of perhaps 4 months ago. And that those of us in lockdown are craving genuine personal interaction. But I?m not convinced that there ever was a golden age, a time when development was not distorted and people were not exploited. It is true that Pleistocene hunter-gatherers seem to have had a face-to-face kind of community in which collaboration and sharing were central. But even they practiced infanticide and left their old behind when they moved to a new camp. I don?t think I would have lasted then as long as I have now. >> >> Martin >> >> >> >>> On Apr 29, 2020, at 11:41 AM, Helena Worthen > wrote: >>> >>> Greg, I think you are drawing attention to one of the consequences of the distortion of human development under capitalism. If that?s what you mean, then yes, the phenomenon of relationships that dead-end when a commodity exchange has taken place, rather than moving in a circle of reciprocal contribution, would be an example. >>> >>> A small relatively new private music school near us apparently has not been paying either its state unemployment insurance payroll taxes or making its equivalent contribution to a special fund set up for non-profits. Now, with the lockdown, it is having to deal with reimbursing the state for unemployment claims by its laid-off teachers. If you draw the circle of reciprocal contribution around this situation, look at what gets linked up. Students, their families, teachers, the management of the school, the enormous Employment Development Department at the state level, the legislature?the circle is gigantic, elements of it way beyond the horizon of what most people linked up in it imagine. >>> >>> In this case, the ?cut and run? took place at the point where the Board of the school decided somehow to assume they could risk taking on the obligation of paying unemployment benefits rather than pay the payroll tax. Easy to do ? it?s a small non-profit and this is something that gets easily overlooked by inexperienced managers. >>> >>> Nevertheless, the distortion that I?m thinking of ? the fear, anger and resentment that pile up when laid-off teachers apply for UI benefits? would be a consequence of capitalism. >>> >>> Helena Worthen >>> h elenaworthen@gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Apr 29, 2020, at 7:53 AM, Martin Packer > wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Greg, >>>> >>>> Are you suggesting that you would like to be able to build a personal relationship with each and every one of your students? And with all your colleagues at the university.? And all the staff at the local supermarket? And all the people who work to send you packages from Amazon? And ?. >>>> >>>> That?s to say, there are reasons why humans have added ?anonymous? interactions to the personal and interpersonal relationship that (as you acknowledge) we still build and maintain. >>>> >>>> Martin >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Apr 28, 2020, at 10:13 PM, Greg Thompson > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Helena, >>>>> >>>>> It sounds like you are describing the commodity fetish. The labor of the professor is no longer seen as their own production. Instead it is seen that the professor simply draws from some "body of knowledge" or a credential that has a particular (monetary) value. As with any good (i.e., bad) commodity relation, even the exchange relations between buyer and seller (professor and student) are hidden and the professor is merely a conduit to that valuable knowledge or credential. What the professor has to offer is MONETIZED, perhaps we might say that the professor themself is monetized, even BRANDED (take a look at the web pages of young faculty and you'll see how important "brand yourself" has become in the academy). The professor and her work are understood in terms of market value, return on investment, earning potential of students. >>>>> >>>>> Students today understand their task as being a good consumer; to get at least equal value from professors as they pay in tuition. (granted much of this is via a credential, but the professors are a big part of what stands behind the university's credential). You'll hear students frequently complain (rightly so) about how much they are paying for their education followed by some specific complaint about a professor. >>>>> >>>>> This is all part of a larger system in which this is understood as how the world works. You get what you pay for. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. And so on. Can we blame students for wanting to know what they are going to "get" for the money that they pay for college, and note that this gets even more intense during hard economic times, of which we are deep into right this moment (although the fear usually takes a semester or two before people start fleeing the humanities and the social sciences to business, engineering, computer science, or pre-anything). >>>>> >>>>> (and Lave and Mcdermott's article on Estranged Labor Learning might be worth revisiting in this regard?) >>>>> >>>>> In addition to Marx's commodity fetish, a related and interesting way to think of this is in terms of Marcel Mauss' notion of gift vs. exchange economy (if you'll allow me to oversimplify a bit). The main difference is that an exchange economy involves transactions that are always calculated to be of exactly equal value. The $13 pair of shoes I buy at the store are worth EXACTLY $13. Each party to the transaction gets their "money's worth". Sounds great right? Fair, to be sure. Except it means that there is no relationship established between the parties. After the exchange, the parties no longer have any meaningful relationship. In contrast, a gifting relationship is not responded in kind (at least not initially). As Mary Douglas says in her intro to Mauss' book The Gift, "there are no free gifts". Note that this is a very different statement from Milton Friedman's "there ain't no such thing as a free lunch". Douglas means that the gift creates a sense of obligation and thus a relationship. As much as we might understand this in intimate spaces, as Americans in public spaces all we know are exchange relationships (people reject healthcare for all b.c. "why should I have to pay for healthcare for someone else", ditto for education (yes, there is a movement in the US to get rid of public education!)). This is the logic behind the out-of-hand rejection of socialism - it does not make sense in the logic of exchange. And, of course, taxes are justified only in as much as you "get" something for it (roads, police, fire department, public transport, etc.) and increasingly tax dollars are getting hyper-localized so that you get precisely what you pay for and don't pay a dime more (e.g., gated communities with private police force, fire dept, etc). >>>>> >>>>> Interestingly I just today was privilege to hear a colleague present about his work in Papua New Guinea (the island of Missima, in the Massim region - the site of the Kula ring made famous to Westerners by Malinowski - and yes, the Kula ring still operates today). He noted that Missimans can't understand why Americans (and other Westerners) are so interested in engaging in exchanges that cut ties (e.g., buying things from them and then running off). And when Missimans do try to engage in gifting relationships with Americans, they are struck by how quickly the Americans run off, never to return (what idiots those Americans are!). It is absolutely baffling to them since they spend their days building relationships with others. Why would someone not want relationships with others? >>>>> >>>>> Can we perhaps understand their bafflement? >>>>> >>>>> And what, then, is human development within a world where relations of exchange are everything? (and thankfully, it isn't total, we Americans still view kin relations as something more than an exchange relation). >>>>> >>>>> Anyway, that's at least two times two cents too much. And terribly inchoate. Far too "off the cuff". Apologies. >>>>> >>>>> -greg >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 11:19 AM Helena Worthen > wrote: >>>>> thanks! >>>>> >>>>> Helena Worthen >>>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Apr 27, 2020, at 7:48 PM, Andy Blunden > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> How about this Helena?: >>>>>> "Time is the room of human development. A man who has no free time to dispose of, whose whole lifetime, apart from the mere physical interruptions by sleep, meals, and so forth, is absorbed by his labour for the capitalist, is less than a beast of burden. He is a mere machine for producing Foreign Wealth, broken in body and brutalized in mind. Yet the whole history of modern industry shows that capital, if not checked, will recklessly and ruthlessly work to cast down the whole working class to this utmost state of degradation." >>>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1865/value-price-profit/ch03.htm__;!!Mih3wA!XrpD8srdhyC65Oojy28Cl6cTZK_Ejb7PhWLmZsPsOC8tViopvLfwRNGyqAQnJbsw10wT8g$ >>>>>> Andy Blunden >>>>>> Hegel for Social Movements >>>>>> Home Page >>>>>> On 28/04/2020 5:23 am, Helena Worthen wrote: >>>>>>> Andy?s paper has basically 4 parts. One a flyby overview of the history of the US ? this is where the majority of criticisms by people I know are showing up because people have different versions of that history. Then the argument that with the US going down as one of the poles of global leadership. My friends and family agree with this and are all, as Americans, offering examples of how they have experienced this. Andy notes that there is an empty spot at the top that hasn?t been taken yet. Then comes his COVID-19 point, that this is a global moment in which the whole world is participating. Most of the xmca discussion has been about that so far, if I?m not mistaken. And finally a challenge to foresee what we will learn from this experience. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> OK, now trying to forsee what we can learn is what I?m doing. So here is my question, appropriate for this list since we are all interested in education. I found myself writing the following, as part of describing the way a workforce can be intentionally divided into feuding packs of enemies so that we can?t take action in solidarity. We?re referring to ?the distortions of human development under capitalism? and say that ?we see this in its sharpest form in the for-profit part of the higher education industry. We have to look past the distortion to find the original, human connection?.? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> One of our readers asks where this concept came from. I don?t remember!! It makes sense, though, doesn?t? Anyone have any idea where it came from? So far I?m saying, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The concept of ?distortions of human development under capitalism? depends on looking at human development as occurring within a social, historical and cultural framework ? not just the development of individuals on their own or within a family or even a school, but within a society. Specifically we mean psychological and cognitive disabilities ranging from lack of empathy, envy, despair, alienation and bullying to obesity, eating disorders and stress-related auto-immune illness. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks ? H >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Helena Worthen >>>>>>> h elenaworthen@gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Apr 27, 2020, at 9:29 AM, Helena Worthen > wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have been circulating Andy?s paper among close friends and family to generate discussion. What is mostly coming back is confirmation of the general arc, with examples from personal experience, but some disagreement about cause. These are ?inside? views ? meaning, people who are US citizens talking about us, so these are experiences of the passing of an era and what they look like from inside. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> About a year ago I realized that, for better or worse, I identify as ?an American.? And I don?t mean North American. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Chris Appy?s book, American Reckoning, is a pretty good history that takes us from the 1940s up to Obama and tracks the hole we fell into with the Vietnam War. For people of my generation (BA 1965 ? and I mention that date rather than when I was born because 1965 connects to the draft, the lottery, the anti-war demonstrations, the asssinations, etc etc) the story told with the Vietnam War in the foreground connects very tightly to lived experience. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Helena Worthen >>>>>>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Apr 22, 2020, at 4:30 AM, Andy Blunden > wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/American-Century.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!XrpD8srdhyC65Oojy28Cl6cTZK_Ejb7PhWLmZsPsOC8tViopvLfwRNGyqAQnJbv6_z41QA$ [ethicalpolitics.org] >>>>>>>>> Andy >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Andy Blunden >>>>>>>>> Hegel for Social Movements [brill.com] >>>>>>>>> Home Page [ethicalpolitics.org] >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >> Assistant Professor >> Department of Anthropology >> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >> Brigham Young University >> Provo, UT 84602 >> WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!XrpD8srdhyC65Oojy28Cl6cTZK_Ejb7PhWLmZsPsOC8tViopvLfwRNGyqAQnJbtLuVmBqQ$ >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!XrpD8srdhyC65Oojy28Cl6cTZK_Ejb7PhWLmZsPsOC8tViopvLfwRNGyqAQnJbvCM7SSKw$ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200430/53d573f4/attachment.html From helenaworthen@gmail.com Thu Apr 30 11:55:43 2020 From: helenaworthen@gmail.com (Helena Worthen) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2020 11:55:43 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: As of 2020, the American Century is Over In-Reply-To: References: <85fc2557-3931-47ff-12d4-267e9281a955@marxists.org> <7F106666-4E69-4606-AAB0-10EE9E7A733D@gmail.com> <255B3664-FD24-4025-9854-0B5D8EFA2962@gmail.com> <1c1c059f-f9a9-3606-ae1c-56d0626dd7e6@marxists.org> <4BF1F09B-8C62-4B6B-A573-27F80EDBF7D4@gmail.com> <6EA7437D-09DC-4B52-B00B-218E674D1B85@gmail.com> <8BB24F8E-61F8-4181-B071-CC8AB20CF0A9@cantab.net> <616B25C5-D590-467D-9747-0B0D21217139@gmail.com> Message-ID: Yes, Martin ? exactly. The school (a private, not a public school, that charges over $40,000 per student for one year of instruction) failed to pay the tax per employee on the payroll. It should have been paying this tax. That?s an understood relationship on the one hand between the private employer and the state and on the other hand between the employee and the employer. This tax supports a public fund that pays for unemployment benefits. Now that all the employees are laid off, they apply to get unemployment benefits, and lo and behold, they can?t get them. Whether the school is a for-profit (and there are many, many of those in the US) or a ?non-profit,? which is a slippery term, I don?t know. But either way, it is a business. It is a type of enterprise that flourishes under capitalism. I don?t have any problem with it for what it is ? I?m sure the teachers are good, the students learn a lot, it?s a great experience for all involved ? but the economic system within which it has appeared (it?s only a few years old) is one that incentivizes breaking the circle of reciprocal social relationships in this way. H Helena Worthen helenaworthen.wordpress.com > On Apr 30, 2020, at 11:42 AM, Martin Packer wrote: > > Hi Helena, > > Help me understand. You?re suggesting that capitalism has destroyed "circles of reciprocal contribution? such as this one? > > A small relatively new private music school near us apparently has not been paying either its state unemployment insurance payroll taxes or making its equivalent contribution to a special fund set up for non-profits. Now, with the lockdown, it is having to deal with reimbursing the state for unemployment claims by its laid-off teachers. If you draw the circle of reciprocal contribution around this situation, look at what gets linked up. Students, their families, teachers, the management of the school, the enormous Employment Development Department at the state level, the legislature?the circle is gigantic, elements of it way beyond the horizon of what most people linked up in it imagine. > > Martin > > > > >> On Apr 30, 2020, at 12:59 PM, Helena Worthen > wrote: >> >> Greg, Martin ? The circle of relationships that I described was not one-on-one personal relationships. They are a combination of personal, contractual, organizational and state-to-enterprise-to-population-to-individual relationships. These are as much ?relationships? as who talks to whom individually. Tracing the circle of commitment, obligation, security and reciprocity is how you can see the relationships. This is the ?circle of reciprocal contribution? I was talking about. >> >> These relationships take an unthinkable amount of creativity and effort to build. >> >> Another example (and I?ll quit if people aren?t interested): OSHA (Occupational Safety and Health Agency) sets standards that have to be upheld regarding working conditions. The idea is to protect workers from hazards. I?m sure I don?t need to make a list. But where do these standards come from? Someone has to identify the problem, do the research, write the proposal, get the plan through the legislature, and then train people to enforce it. Every single step of the way, it?s a relationship of one kind or another ?sometimes it?s one-on-one, sometimes it?s an attorney bringing a lawsuit, sometimes it?s someone making a speech to a crowd or a journalist photographing an accident scene. It?s a web of relationships. >> >> >> Helena Worthen >> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >> >> >> >> >>> On Apr 30, 2020, at 10:44 AM, Greg Thompson > wrote: >>> >>> Martin, >>> >>> I'm delighted by your optimism and hopefulness about the U.S.! >>> (particularly for someone who left the U.S.! "It's a lovely place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there"). >>> and, of course, nostalgia has its problems (as you might imagine, my colleague's experiences in PNG were not all flowers and roses). >>> >>> But it is at least something to hold onto. >>> >>> Perhaps you could share where you place your hopes? or what is your long duree visions of things (either as they HAVE happened) or as they might happen? >>> >>> Based on what I'm seeing circulating among friends (both in person and on social media), I am becoming increasingly pessimistic about the hopes for America. As just one recent example, there is a video that was circulating in which two California doctors present a bunch of numbers to show that the coronavirus is not at all a serious threat. The only trouble is, their calculations are totally mistaken (and not only are they mistaken but they do two different calculations in two totally different ways). And yet the video has been posted and reposted as "truth" against the fictional numbers that the WHO is putting out (in cahoots with Bill Gates). Not only that, there has been news coverage of the video that does not point out the fundamental flaws. It's like someone says that 2+2=5 and then conclude that Trump is the right president and then claims that they should get equal coverage to those people who say 2+2=4. >>> >>> And then to add fuel to the fire, Facebook and Youtube have insisted on taking these videos down because they are propogating false information about the coronavirus. And guess what the coronavirus deniers are now saying that this is further evidence of the conspiracy of the WHO and Bill Gates! >>> >>> So this general trend, among many other things, is what makes me incredibly pessimistic about things and which makes nostalgia incredibly appealing (although my nostalgia is to Make America Decent Again). >>> >>> Anyway, my apologies for writing gobbly-gook, I'm not editing these at all. But I'd be delighted to hear your non-nostalgia forms of hope (and perhaps your hope is not at all a hope for American? Maybe quite the opposite? In which case what I've described above is precisely what's needed!). >>> >>> And regardless of hope, how do you see this present moment in cultural-historical terms? >>> >>> -greg >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 12:29 PM Martin Packer > wrote: >>> My point was about the problematic nature of the hegemony of exchange-based relations (i.e. the capitalist relation in which "what value can I get from you" - you might call it "The Art of the Deal"!). At the very least, might you agree that it is a problem if we see ALL human relationships in these terms? >>> >>> I don?t think it could ever happen, Greg. So I?m not going to worry about it. >>> >>> I do seem to be disagreeing with everyone on xmca these days! Perhaps it?s my way of coping. Perhaps it?s because I think that if there was ever a time for thinking things through carefully it is now. >>> >>> Surely impersonal anonymous kinds of interactions must have begun as soon as anything large enough to be called a city came into existence. I?m not a big fan of Dunbar?s number, but surely there are limits to the number of people with whom one can have an personal relationship, and those limits were exceeded at least 6,000 years ago. >>> >>> And is xmca a place of personal relationships? I have met in person less than 5 people on this list, I think. That?s to say, we make constant, fruitful and enjoyable use of impersonal relationships, including here. I for one wouldn?t wish to return to a time when everyone lived in villages of less than 150 people. >>> >>> And what I remember from Marx is that the original sin of capitalism is alienation of people not from one another but from their own labor. (Though the former may be one of the consequences of the latter.) Of course exploitation didn?t start with capitalism either, though wage labor under capitalism is a frighteningly efficient kind of exploitation. But if I had been born in feudal times I might have been laboring for the lord of the manor, who probably didn?t know me by name. If born in Roman times I might have been a slave, working for the lady of the villa. >>> >>> I appreciate that we are all experiencing a certain nostalgia for the good old days, of perhaps 4 months ago. And that those of us in lockdown are craving genuine personal interaction. But I?m not convinced that there ever was a golden age, a time when development was not distorted and people were not exploited. It is true that Pleistocene hunter-gatherers seem to have had a face-to-face kind of community in which collaboration and sharing were central. But even they practiced infanticide and left their old behind when they moved to a new camp. I don?t think I would have lasted then as long as I have now. >>> >>> Martin >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Apr 29, 2020, at 11:41 AM, Helena Worthen > wrote: >>>> >>>> Greg, I think you are drawing attention to one of the consequences of the distortion of human development under capitalism. If that?s what you mean, then yes, the phenomenon of relationships that dead-end when a commodity exchange has taken place, rather than moving in a circle of reciprocal contribution, would be an example. >>>> >>>> A small relatively new private music school near us apparently has not been paying either its state unemployment insurance payroll taxes or making its equivalent contribution to a special fund set up for non-profits. Now, with the lockdown, it is having to deal with reimbursing the state for unemployment claims by its laid-off teachers. If you draw the circle of reciprocal contribution around this situation, look at what gets linked up. Students, their families, teachers, the management of the school, the enormous Employment Development Department at the state level, the legislature?the circle is gigantic, elements of it way beyond the horizon of what most people linked up in it imagine. >>>> >>>> In this case, the ?cut and run? took place at the point where the Board of the school decided somehow to assume they could risk taking on the obligation of paying unemployment benefits rather than pay the payroll tax. Easy to do ? it?s a small non-profit and this is something that gets easily overlooked by inexperienced managers. >>>> >>>> Nevertheless, the distortion that I?m thinking of ? the fear, anger and resentment that pile up when laid-off teachers apply for UI benefits? would be a consequence of capitalism. >>>> >>>> Helena Worthen >>>> h elenaworthen@gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Apr 29, 2020, at 7:53 AM, Martin Packer > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi Greg, >>>>> >>>>> Are you suggesting that you would like to be able to build a personal relationship with each and every one of your students? And with all your colleagues at the university.? And all the staff at the local supermarket? And all the people who work to send you packages from Amazon? And ?. >>>>> >>>>> That?s to say, there are reasons why humans have added ?anonymous? interactions to the personal and interpersonal relationship that (as you acknowledge) we still build and maintain. >>>>> >>>>> Martin >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Apr 28, 2020, at 10:13 PM, Greg Thompson > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Helena, >>>>>> >>>>>> It sounds like you are describing the commodity fetish. The labor of the professor is no longer seen as their own production. Instead it is seen that the professor simply draws from some "body of knowledge" or a credential that has a particular (monetary) value. As with any good (i.e., bad) commodity relation, even the exchange relations between buyer and seller (professor and student) are hidden and the professor is merely a conduit to that valuable knowledge or credential. What the professor has to offer is MONETIZED, perhaps we might say that the professor themself is monetized, even BRANDED (take a look at the web pages of young faculty and you'll see how important "brand yourself" has become in the academy). The professor and her work are understood in terms of market value, return on investment, earning potential of students. >>>>>> >>>>>> Students today understand their task as being a good consumer; to get at least equal value from professors as they pay in tuition. (granted much of this is via a credential, but the professors are a big part of what stands behind the university's credential). You'll hear students frequently complain (rightly so) about how much they are paying for their education followed by some specific complaint about a professor. >>>>>> >>>>>> This is all part of a larger system in which this is understood as how the world works. You get what you pay for. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. And so on. Can we blame students for wanting to know what they are going to "get" for the money that they pay for college, and note that this gets even more intense during hard economic times, of which we are deep into right this moment (although the fear usually takes a semester or two before people start fleeing the humanities and the social sciences to business, engineering, computer science, or pre-anything). >>>>>> >>>>>> (and Lave and Mcdermott's article on Estranged Labor Learning might be worth revisiting in this regard?) >>>>>> >>>>>> In addition to Marx's commodity fetish, a related and interesting way to think of this is in terms of Marcel Mauss' notion of gift vs. exchange economy (if you'll allow me to oversimplify a bit). The main difference is that an exchange economy involves transactions that are always calculated to be of exactly equal value. The $13 pair of shoes I buy at the store are worth EXACTLY $13. Each party to the transaction gets their "money's worth". Sounds great right? Fair, to be sure. Except it means that there is no relationship established between the parties. After the exchange, the parties no longer have any meaningful relationship. In contrast, a gifting relationship is not responded in kind (at least not initially). As Mary Douglas says in her intro to Mauss' book The Gift, "there are no free gifts". Note that this is a very different statement from Milton Friedman's "there ain't no such thing as a free lunch". Douglas means that the gift creates a sense of obligation and thus a relationship. As much as we might understand this in intimate spaces, as Americans in public spaces all we know are exchange relationships (people reject healthcare for all b.c. "why should I have to pay for healthcare for someone else", ditto for education (yes, there is a movement in the US to get rid of public education!)). This is the logic behind the out-of-hand rejection of socialism - it does not make sense in the logic of exchange. And, of course, taxes are justified only in as much as you "get" something for it (roads, police, fire department, public transport, etc.) and increasingly tax dollars are getting hyper-localized so that you get precisely what you pay for and don't pay a dime more (e.g., gated communities with private police force, fire dept, etc). >>>>>> >>>>>> Interestingly I just today was privilege to hear a colleague present about his work in Papua New Guinea (the island of Missima, in the Massim region - the site of the Kula ring made famous to Westerners by Malinowski - and yes, the Kula ring still operates today). He noted that Missimans can't understand why Americans (and other Westerners) are so interested in engaging in exchanges that cut ties (e.g., buying things from them and then running off). And when Missimans do try to engage in gifting relationships with Americans, they are struck by how quickly the Americans run off, never to return (what idiots those Americans are!). It is absolutely baffling to them since they spend their days building relationships with others. Why would someone not want relationships with others? >>>>>> >>>>>> Can we perhaps understand their bafflement? >>>>>> >>>>>> And what, then, is human development within a world where relations of exchange are everything? (and thankfully, it isn't total, we Americans still view kin relations as something more than an exchange relation). >>>>>> >>>>>> Anyway, that's at least two times two cents too much. And terribly inchoate. Far too "off the cuff". Apologies. >>>>>> >>>>>> -greg >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 11:19 AM Helena Worthen > wrote: >>>>>> thanks! >>>>>> >>>>>> Helena Worthen >>>>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Apr 27, 2020, at 7:48 PM, Andy Blunden > wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> How about this Helena?: >>>>>>> "Time is the room of human development. A man who has no free time to dispose of, whose whole lifetime, apart from the mere physical interruptions by sleep, meals, and so forth, is absorbed by his labour for the capitalist, is less than a beast of burden. He is a mere machine for producing Foreign Wealth, broken in body and brutalized in mind. Yet the whole history of modern industry shows that capital, if not checked, will recklessly and ruthlessly work to cast down the whole working class to this utmost state of degradation." >>>>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1865/value-price-profit/ch03.htm__;!!Mih3wA!Thz23n_OgoeS5-tUEnZCG7V-8pJrBm9Rinmj75rBEKoroJKusLopGN4HPIQXHwmAveyoZw$ >>>>>>> Andy Blunden >>>>>>> Hegel for Social Movements >>>>>>> Home Page >>>>>>> On 28/04/2020 5:23 am, Helena Worthen wrote: >>>>>>>> Andy?s paper has basically 4 parts. One a flyby overview of the history of the US ? this is where the majority of criticisms by people I know are showing up because people have different versions of that history. Then the argument that with the US going down as one of the poles of global leadership. My friends and family agree with this and are all, as Americans, offering examples of how they have experienced this. Andy notes that there is an empty spot at the top that hasn?t been taken yet. Then comes his COVID-19 point, that this is a global moment in which the whole world is participating. Most of the xmca discussion has been about that so far, if I?m not mistaken. And finally a challenge to foresee what we will learn from this experience. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> OK, now trying to forsee what we can learn is what I?m doing. So here is my question, appropriate for this list since we are all interested in education. I found myself writing the following, as part of describing the way a workforce can be intentionally divided into feuding packs of enemies so that we can?t take action in solidarity. We?re referring to ?the distortions of human development under capitalism? and say that ?we see this in its sharpest form in the for-profit part of the higher education industry. We have to look past the distortion to find the original, human connection?.? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> One of our readers asks where this concept came from. I don?t remember!! It makes sense, though, doesn?t? Anyone have any idea where it came from? So far I?m saying, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The concept of ?distortions of human development under capitalism? depends on looking at human development as occurring within a social, historical and cultural framework ? not just the development of individuals on their own or within a family or even a school, but within a society. Specifically we mean psychological and cognitive disabilities ranging from lack of empathy, envy, despair, alienation and bullying to obesity, eating disorders and stress-related auto-immune illness. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks ? H >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Helena Worthen >>>>>>>> h elenaworthen@gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Apr 27, 2020, at 9:29 AM, Helena Worthen > wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I have been circulating Andy?s paper among close friends and family to generate discussion. What is mostly coming back is confirmation of the general arc, with examples from personal experience, but some disagreement about cause. These are ?inside? views ? meaning, people who are US citizens talking about us, so these are experiences of the passing of an era and what they look like from inside. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> About a year ago I realized that, for better or worse, I identify as ?an American.? And I don?t mean North American. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Chris Appy?s book, American Reckoning, is a pretty good history that takes us from the 1940s up to Obama and tracks the hole we fell into with the Vietnam War. For people of my generation (BA 1965 ? and I mention that date rather than when I was born because 1965 connects to the draft, the lottery, the anti-war demonstrations, the asssinations, etc etc) the story told with the Vietnam War in the foreground connects very tightly to lived experience. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Helena Worthen >>>>>>>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Apr 22, 2020, at 4:30 AM, Andy Blunden > wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/American-Century.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!Thz23n_OgoeS5-tUEnZCG7V-8pJrBm9Rinmj75rBEKoroJKusLopGN4HPIQXHwlRePsqnQ$ [ethicalpolitics.org] >>>>>>>>>> Andy >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Andy Blunden >>>>>>>>>> Hegel for Social Movements [brill.com] >>>>>>>>>> Home Page [ethicalpolitics.org] >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>> Assistant Professor >>> Department of Anthropology >>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >>> Brigham Young University >>> Provo, UT 84602 >>> WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!Thz23n_OgoeS5-tUEnZCG7V-8pJrBm9Rinmj75rBEKoroJKusLopGN4HPIQXHwmnv4jYag$ >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!Thz23n_OgoeS5-tUEnZCG7V-8pJrBm9Rinmj75rBEKoroJKusLopGN4HPIQXHwl6uVneQw$ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200430/33902e54/attachment.html From helenaworthen@gmail.com Thu Apr 30 11:56:21 2020 From: helenaworthen@gmail.com (Helena Worthen) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2020 11:56:21 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: As of 2020, the American Century is Over In-Reply-To: References: <85fc2557-3931-47ff-12d4-267e9281a955@marxists.org> <7F106666-4E69-4606-AAB0-10EE9E7A733D@gmail.com> <255B3664-FD24-4025-9854-0B5D8EFA2962@gmail.com> <1c1c059f-f9a9-3606-ae1c-56d0626dd7e6@marxists.org> <4BF1F09B-8C62-4B6B-A573-27F80EDBF7D4@gmail.com> <6EA7437D-09DC-4B52-B00B-218E674D1B85@gmail.com> <8BB24F8E-61F8-4181-B071-CC8AB20CF0A9@cantab.net> <616B25C5-D590-467D-9747-0B0D21217139@gmail.com> Message-ID: <79E3D004-8FE9-4278-AA3A-13BC6310E9ED@gmail.com> ON the other hand ? https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://youtu.be/80l4juoORPs__;!!Mih3wA!WEKUcK2ZlGr96iOTgkCUxNn8Q2U_gsno8dPg1Wn-LF7Y0KL7tCVWC0oiF0mYeqFEOQUQfA$ Helena Worthen helenaworthen.wordpress.com > On Apr 30, 2020, at 11:55 AM, Helena Worthen wrote: > > Yes, Martin ? exactly. The school (a private, not a public school, that charges over $40,000 per student for one year of instruction) failed to pay the tax per employee on the payroll. It should have been paying this tax. That?s an understood relationship on the one hand between the private employer and the state and on the other hand between the employee and the employer. This tax supports a public fund that pays for unemployment benefits. Now that all the employees are laid off, they apply to get unemployment benefits, and lo and behold, they can?t get them. > > Whether the school is a for-profit (and there are many, many of those in the US) or a ?non-profit,? which is a slippery term, I don?t know. But either way, it is a business. It is a type of enterprise that flourishes under capitalism. I don?t have any problem with it for what it is ? I?m sure the teachers are good, the students learn a lot, it?s a great experience for all involved ? but the economic system within which it has appeared (it?s only a few years old) is one that incentivizes breaking the circle of reciprocal social relationships in this way. > > H > > Helena Worthen > helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > > > >> On Apr 30, 2020, at 11:42 AM, Martin Packer > wrote: >> >> Hi Helena, >> >> Help me understand. You?re suggesting that capitalism has destroyed "circles of reciprocal contribution? such as this one? >> >> A small relatively new private music school near us apparently has not been paying either its state unemployment insurance payroll taxes or making its equivalent contribution to a special fund set up for non-profits. Now, with the lockdown, it is having to deal with reimbursing the state for unemployment claims by its laid-off teachers. If you draw the circle of reciprocal contribution around this situation, look at what gets linked up. Students, their families, teachers, the management of the school, the enormous Employment Development Department at the state level, the legislature?the circle is gigantic, elements of it way beyond the horizon of what most people linked up in it imagine. >> >> Martin >> >> >> >> >>> On Apr 30, 2020, at 12:59 PM, Helena Worthen > wrote: >>> >>> Greg, Martin ? The circle of relationships that I described was not one-on-one personal relationships. They are a combination of personal, contractual, organizational and state-to-enterprise-to-population-to-individual relationships. These are as much ?relationships? as who talks to whom individually. Tracing the circle of commitment, obligation, security and reciprocity is how you can see the relationships. This is the ?circle of reciprocal contribution? I was talking about. >>> >>> These relationships take an unthinkable amount of creativity and effort to build. >>> >>> Another example (and I?ll quit if people aren?t interested): OSHA (Occupational Safety and Health Agency) sets standards that have to be upheld regarding working conditions. The idea is to protect workers from hazards. I?m sure I don?t need to make a list. But where do these standards come from? Someone has to identify the problem, do the research, write the proposal, get the plan through the legislature, and then train people to enforce it. Every single step of the way, it?s a relationship of one kind or another ?sometimes it?s one-on-one, sometimes it?s an attorney bringing a lawsuit, sometimes it?s someone making a speech to a crowd or a journalist photographing an accident scene. It?s a web of relationships. >>> >>> >>> Helena Worthen >>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Apr 30, 2020, at 10:44 AM, Greg Thompson > wrote: >>>> >>>> Martin, >>>> >>>> I'm delighted by your optimism and hopefulness about the U.S.! >>>> (particularly for someone who left the U.S.! "It's a lovely place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there"). >>>> and, of course, nostalgia has its problems (as you might imagine, my colleague's experiences in PNG were not all flowers and roses). >>>> >>>> But it is at least something to hold onto. >>>> >>>> Perhaps you could share where you place your hopes? or what is your long duree visions of things (either as they HAVE happened) or as they might happen? >>>> >>>> Based on what I'm seeing circulating among friends (both in person and on social media), I am becoming increasingly pessimistic about the hopes for America. As just one recent example, there is a video that was circulating in which two California doctors present a bunch of numbers to show that the coronavirus is not at all a serious threat. The only trouble is, their calculations are totally mistaken (and not only are they mistaken but they do two different calculations in two totally different ways). And yet the video has been posted and reposted as "truth" against the fictional numbers that the WHO is putting out (in cahoots with Bill Gates). Not only that, there has been news coverage of the video that does not point out the fundamental flaws. It's like someone says that 2+2=5 and then conclude that Trump is the right president and then claims that they should get equal coverage to those people who say 2+2=4. >>>> >>>> And then to add fuel to the fire, Facebook and Youtube have insisted on taking these videos down because they are propogating false information about the coronavirus. And guess what the coronavirus deniers are now saying that this is further evidence of the conspiracy of the WHO and Bill Gates! >>>> >>>> So this general trend, among many other things, is what makes me incredibly pessimistic about things and which makes nostalgia incredibly appealing (although my nostalgia is to Make America Decent Again). >>>> >>>> Anyway, my apologies for writing gobbly-gook, I'm not editing these at all. But I'd be delighted to hear your non-nostalgia forms of hope (and perhaps your hope is not at all a hope for American? Maybe quite the opposite? In which case what I've described above is precisely what's needed!). >>>> >>>> And regardless of hope, how do you see this present moment in cultural-historical terms? >>>> >>>> -greg >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 12:29 PM Martin Packer > wrote: >>>> My point was about the problematic nature of the hegemony of exchange-based relations (i.e. the capitalist relation in which "what value can I get from you" - you might call it "The Art of the Deal"!). At the very least, might you agree that it is a problem if we see ALL human relationships in these terms? >>>> >>>> I don?t think it could ever happen, Greg. So I?m not going to worry about it. >>>> >>>> I do seem to be disagreeing with everyone on xmca these days! Perhaps it?s my way of coping. Perhaps it?s because I think that if there was ever a time for thinking things through carefully it is now. >>>> >>>> Surely impersonal anonymous kinds of interactions must have begun as soon as anything large enough to be called a city came into existence. I?m not a big fan of Dunbar?s number, but surely there are limits to the number of people with whom one can have an personal relationship, and those limits were exceeded at least 6,000 years ago. >>>> >>>> And is xmca a place of personal relationships? I have met in person less than 5 people on this list, I think. That?s to say, we make constant, fruitful and enjoyable use of impersonal relationships, including here. I for one wouldn?t wish to return to a time when everyone lived in villages of less than 150 people. >>>> >>>> And what I remember from Marx is that the original sin of capitalism is alienation of people not from one another but from their own labor. (Though the former may be one of the consequences of the latter.) Of course exploitation didn?t start with capitalism either, though wage labor under capitalism is a frighteningly efficient kind of exploitation. But if I had been born in feudal times I might have been laboring for the lord of the manor, who probably didn?t know me by name. If born in Roman times I might have been a slave, working for the lady of the villa. >>>> >>>> I appreciate that we are all experiencing a certain nostalgia for the good old days, of perhaps 4 months ago. And that those of us in lockdown are craving genuine personal interaction. But I?m not convinced that there ever was a golden age, a time when development was not distorted and people were not exploited. It is true that Pleistocene hunter-gatherers seem to have had a face-to-face kind of community in which collaboration and sharing were central. But even they practiced infanticide and left their old behind when they moved to a new camp. I don?t think I would have lasted then as long as I have now. >>>> >>>> Martin >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Apr 29, 2020, at 11:41 AM, Helena Worthen > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Greg, I think you are drawing attention to one of the consequences of the distortion of human development under capitalism. If that?s what you mean, then yes, the phenomenon of relationships that dead-end when a commodity exchange has taken place, rather than moving in a circle of reciprocal contribution, would be an example. >>>>> >>>>> A small relatively new private music school near us apparently has not been paying either its state unemployment insurance payroll taxes or making its equivalent contribution to a special fund set up for non-profits. Now, with the lockdown, it is having to deal with reimbursing the state for unemployment claims by its laid-off teachers. If you draw the circle of reciprocal contribution around this situation, look at what gets linked up. Students, their families, teachers, the management of the school, the enormous Employment Development Department at the state level, the legislature?the circle is gigantic, elements of it way beyond the horizon of what most people linked up in it imagine. >>>>> >>>>> In this case, the ?cut and run? took place at the point where the Board of the school decided somehow to assume they could risk taking on the obligation of paying unemployment benefits rather than pay the payroll tax. Easy to do ? it?s a small non-profit and this is something that gets easily overlooked by inexperienced managers. >>>>> >>>>> Nevertheless, the distortion that I?m thinking of ? the fear, anger and resentment that pile up when laid-off teachers apply for UI benefits? would be a consequence of capitalism. >>>>> >>>>> Helena Worthen >>>>> h elenaworthen@gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Apr 29, 2020, at 7:53 AM, Martin Packer > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Greg, >>>>>> >>>>>> Are you suggesting that you would like to be able to build a personal relationship with each and every one of your students? And with all your colleagues at the university.? And all the staff at the local supermarket? And all the people who work to send you packages from Amazon? And ?. >>>>>> >>>>>> That?s to say, there are reasons why humans have added ?anonymous? interactions to the personal and interpersonal relationship that (as you acknowledge) we still build and maintain. >>>>>> >>>>>> Martin >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Apr 28, 2020, at 10:13 PM, Greg Thompson > wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Helena, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It sounds like you are describing the commodity fetish. The labor of the professor is no longer seen as their own production. Instead it is seen that the professor simply draws from some "body of knowledge" or a credential that has a particular (monetary) value. As with any good (i.e., bad) commodity relation, even the exchange relations between buyer and seller (professor and student) are hidden and the professor is merely a conduit to that valuable knowledge or credential. What the professor has to offer is MONETIZED, perhaps we might say that the professor themself is monetized, even BRANDED (take a look at the web pages of young faculty and you'll see how important "brand yourself" has become in the academy). The professor and her work are understood in terms of market value, return on investment, earning potential of students. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Students today understand their task as being a good consumer; to get at least equal value from professors as they pay in tuition. (granted much of this is via a credential, but the professors are a big part of what stands behind the university's credential). You'll hear students frequently complain (rightly so) about how much they are paying for their education followed by some specific complaint about a professor. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is all part of a larger system in which this is understood as how the world works. You get what you pay for. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. And so on. Can we blame students for wanting to know what they are going to "get" for the money that they pay for college, and note that this gets even more intense during hard economic times, of which we are deep into right this moment (although the fear usually takes a semester or two before people start fleeing the humanities and the social sciences to business, engineering, computer science, or pre-anything). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> (and Lave and Mcdermott's article on Estranged Labor Learning might be worth revisiting in this regard?) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In addition to Marx's commodity fetish, a related and interesting way to think of this is in terms of Marcel Mauss' notion of gift vs. exchange economy (if you'll allow me to oversimplify a bit). The main difference is that an exchange economy involves transactions that are always calculated to be of exactly equal value. The $13 pair of shoes I buy at the store are worth EXACTLY $13. Each party to the transaction gets their "money's worth". Sounds great right? Fair, to be sure. Except it means that there is no relationship established between the parties. After the exchange, the parties no longer have any meaningful relationship. In contrast, a gifting relationship is not responded in kind (at least not initially). As Mary Douglas says in her intro to Mauss' book The Gift, "there are no free gifts". Note that this is a very different statement from Milton Friedman's "there ain't no such thing as a free lunch". Douglas means that the gift creates a sense of obligation and thus a relationship. As much as we might understand this in intimate spaces, as Americans in public spaces all we know are exchange relationships (people reject healthcare for all b.c. "why should I have to pay for healthcare for someone else", ditto for education (yes, there is a movement in the US to get rid of public education!)). This is the logic behind the out-of-hand rejection of socialism - it does not make sense in the logic of exchange. And, of course, taxes are justified only in as much as you "get" something for it (roads, police, fire department, public transport, etc.) and increasingly tax dollars are getting hyper-localized so that you get precisely what you pay for and don't pay a dime more (e.g., gated communities with private police force, fire dept, etc). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Interestingly I just today was privilege to hear a colleague present about his work in Papua New Guinea (the island of Missima, in the Massim region - the site of the Kula ring made famous to Westerners by Malinowski - and yes, the Kula ring still operates today). He noted that Missimans can't understand why Americans (and other Westerners) are so interested in engaging in exchanges that cut ties (e.g., buying things from them and then running off). And when Missimans do try to engage in gifting relationships with Americans, they are struck by how quickly the Americans run off, never to return (what idiots those Americans are!). It is absolutely baffling to them since they spend their days building relationships with others. Why would someone not want relationships with others? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Can we perhaps understand their bafflement? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And what, then, is human development within a world where relations of exchange are everything? (and thankfully, it isn't total, we Americans still view kin relations as something more than an exchange relation). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Anyway, that's at least two times two cents too much. And terribly inchoate. Far too "off the cuff". Apologies. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -greg >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 11:19 AM Helena Worthen > wrote: >>>>>>> thanks! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Helena Worthen >>>>>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Apr 27, 2020, at 7:48 PM, Andy Blunden > wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> How about this Helena?: >>>>>>>> "Time is the room of human development. A man who has no free time to dispose of, whose whole lifetime, apart from the mere physical interruptions by sleep, meals, and so forth, is absorbed by his labour for the capitalist, is less than a beast of burden. He is a mere machine for producing Foreign Wealth, broken in body and brutalized in mind. Yet the whole history of modern industry shows that capital, if not checked, will recklessly and ruthlessly work to cast down the whole working class to this utmost state of degradation." >>>>>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1865/value-price-profit/ch03.htm__;!!Mih3wA!WEKUcK2ZlGr96iOTgkCUxNn8Q2U_gsno8dPg1Wn-LF7Y0KL7tCVWC0oiF0mYeqHmd2OJ8A$ >>>>>>>> Andy Blunden >>>>>>>> Hegel for Social Movements >>>>>>>> Home Page >>>>>>>> On 28/04/2020 5:23 am, Helena Worthen wrote: >>>>>>>>> Andy?s paper has basically 4 parts. One a flyby overview of the history of the US ? this is where the majority of criticisms by people I know are showing up because people have different versions of that history. Then the argument that with the US going down as one of the poles of global leadership. My friends and family agree with this and are all, as Americans, offering examples of how they have experienced this. Andy notes that there is an empty spot at the top that hasn?t been taken yet. Then comes his COVID-19 point, that this is a global moment in which the whole world is participating. Most of the xmca discussion has been about that so far, if I?m not mistaken. And finally a challenge to foresee what we will learn from this experience. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> OK, now trying to forsee what we can learn is what I?m doing. So here is my question, appropriate for this list since we are all interested in education. I found myself writing the following, as part of describing the way a workforce can be intentionally divided into feuding packs of enemies so that we can?t take action in solidarity. We?re referring to ?the distortions of human development under capitalism? and say that ?we see this in its sharpest form in the for-profit part of the higher education industry. We have to look past the distortion to find the original, human connection?.? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> One of our readers asks where this concept came from. I don?t remember!! It makes sense, though, doesn?t? Anyone have any idea where it came from? So far I?m saying, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The concept of ?distortions of human development under capitalism? depends on looking at human development as occurring within a social, historical and cultural framework ? not just the development of individuals on their own or within a family or even a school, but within a society. Specifically we mean psychological and cognitive disabilities ranging from lack of empathy, envy, despair, alienation and bullying to obesity, eating disorders and stress-related auto-immune illness. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks ? H >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Helena Worthen >>>>>>>>> h elenaworthen@gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Apr 27, 2020, at 9:29 AM, Helena Worthen > wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I have been circulating Andy?s paper among close friends and family to generate discussion. What is mostly coming back is confirmation of the general arc, with examples from personal experience, but some disagreement about cause. These are ?inside? views ? meaning, people who are US citizens talking about us, so these are experiences of the passing of an era and what they look like from inside. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> About a year ago I realized that, for better or worse, I identify as ?an American.? And I don?t mean North American. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Chris Appy?s book, American Reckoning, is a pretty good history that takes us from the 1940s up to Obama and tracks the hole we fell into with the Vietnam War. For people of my generation (BA 1965 ? and I mention that date rather than when I was born because 1965 connects to the draft, the lottery, the anti-war demonstrations, the asssinations, etc etc) the story told with the Vietnam War in the foreground connects very tightly to lived experience. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Helena Worthen >>>>>>>>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 22, 2020, at 4:30 AM, Andy Blunden > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/American-Century.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!WEKUcK2ZlGr96iOTgkCUxNn8Q2U_gsno8dPg1Wn-LF7Y0KL7tCVWC0oiF0mYeqHWGDLm1w$ [ethicalpolitics.org] >>>>>>>>>>> Andy >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> Andy Blunden >>>>>>>>>>> Hegel for Social Movements [brill.com] >>>>>>>>>>> Home Page [ethicalpolitics.org] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>>> Assistant Professor >>>> Department of Anthropology >>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >>>> Brigham Young University >>>> Provo, UT 84602 >>>> WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!WEKUcK2ZlGr96iOTgkCUxNn8Q2U_gsno8dPg1Wn-LF7Y0KL7tCVWC0oiF0mYeqEggro1Eg$ >>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!WEKUcK2ZlGr96iOTgkCUxNn8Q2U_gsno8dPg1Wn-LF7Y0KL7tCVWC0oiF0mYeqF6AO7uPA$ >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200430/ad9b05d3/attachment.html From mpacker@cantab.net Thu Apr 30 12:39:01 2020 From: mpacker@cantab.net (Martin Packer) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2020 14:39:01 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: As of 2020, the American Century is Over In-Reply-To: References: <85fc2557-3931-47ff-12d4-267e9281a955@marxists.org> <7F106666-4E69-4606-AAB0-10EE9E7A733D@gmail.com> <255B3664-FD24-4025-9854-0B5D8EFA2962@gmail.com> <1c1c059f-f9a9-3606-ae1c-56d0626dd7e6@marxists.org> <4BF1F09B-8C62-4B6B-A573-27F80EDBF7D4@gmail.com> <6EA7437D-09DC-4B52-B00B-218E674D1B85@gmail.com> <8BB24F8E-61F8-4181-B071-CC8AB20CF0A9@cantab.net> <616B25C5-D590-467D-9747-0B0D21217139@gmail.com> Message-ID: Okay, I can see that this school broke the law by not paying the required taxes. What?s not clear to me is how capitalism is the cause of that. Couldn?t one say that this is an example of how even US capitalism has at least attempted to implement some degree of redistribution of wealth, and that the state will or should sanction (punish) this kind of attempt to avoid the responsibility to contribute to the public good? Martin > On Apr 30, 2020, at 1:55 PM, Helena Worthen wrote: > > Yes, Martin ? exactly. The school (a private, not a public school, that charges over $40,000 per student for one year of instruction) failed to pay the tax per employee on the payroll. It should have been paying this tax. That?s an understood relationship on the one hand between the private employer and the state and on the other hand between the employee and the employer. This tax supports a public fund that pays for unemployment benefits. Now that all the employees are laid off, they apply to get unemployment benefits, and lo and behold, they can?t get them. > > Whether the school is a for-profit (and there are many, many of those in the US) or a ?non-profit,? which is a slippery term, I don?t know. But either way, it is a business. It is a type of enterprise that flourishes under capitalism. I don?t have any problem with it for what it is ? I?m sure the teachers are good, the students learn a lot, it?s a great experience for all involved ? but the economic system within which it has appeared (it?s only a few years old) is one that incentivizes breaking the circle of reciprocal social relationships in this way. > > H > > Helena Worthen > helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > > > >> On Apr 30, 2020, at 11:42 AM, Martin Packer > wrote: >> >> Hi Helena, >> >> Help me understand. You?re suggesting that capitalism has destroyed "circles of reciprocal contribution? such as this one? >> >> A small relatively new private music school near us apparently has not been paying either its state unemployment insurance payroll taxes or making its equivalent contribution to a special fund set up for non-profits. Now, with the lockdown, it is having to deal with reimbursing the state for unemployment claims by its laid-off teachers. If you draw the circle of reciprocal contribution around this situation, look at what gets linked up. Students, their families, teachers, the management of the school, the enormous Employment Development Department at the state level, the legislature?the circle is gigantic, elements of it way beyond the horizon of what most people linked up in it imagine. >> >> Martin >> >> >> >> >>> On Apr 30, 2020, at 12:59 PM, Helena Worthen > wrote: >>> >>> Greg, Martin ? The circle of relationships that I described was not one-on-one personal relationships. They are a combination of personal, contractual, organizational and state-to-enterprise-to-population-to-individual relationships. These are as much ?relationships? as who talks to whom individually. Tracing the circle of commitment, obligation, security and reciprocity is how you can see the relationships. This is the ?circle of reciprocal contribution? I was talking about. >>> >>> These relationships take an unthinkable amount of creativity and effort to build. >>> >>> Another example (and I?ll quit if people aren?t interested): OSHA (Occupational Safety and Health Agency) sets standards that have to be upheld regarding working conditions. The idea is to protect workers from hazards. I?m sure I don?t need to make a list. But where do these standards come from? Someone has to identify the problem, do the research, write the proposal, get the plan through the legislature, and then train people to enforce it. Every single step of the way, it?s a relationship of one kind or another ?sometimes it?s one-on-one, sometimes it?s an attorney bringing a lawsuit, sometimes it?s someone making a speech to a crowd or a journalist photographing an accident scene. It?s a web of relationships. >>> >>> >>> Helena Worthen >>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Apr 30, 2020, at 10:44 AM, Greg Thompson > wrote: >>>> >>>> Martin, >>>> >>>> I'm delighted by your optimism and hopefulness about the U.S.! >>>> (particularly for someone who left the U.S.! "It's a lovely place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there"). >>>> and, of course, nostalgia has its problems (as you might imagine, my colleague's experiences in PNG were not all flowers and roses). >>>> >>>> But it is at least something to hold onto. >>>> >>>> Perhaps you could share where you place your hopes? or what is your long duree visions of things (either as they HAVE happened) or as they might happen? >>>> >>>> Based on what I'm seeing circulating among friends (both in person and on social media), I am becoming increasingly pessimistic about the hopes for America. As just one recent example, there is a video that was circulating in which two California doctors present a bunch of numbers to show that the coronavirus is not at all a serious threat. The only trouble is, their calculations are totally mistaken (and not only are they mistaken but they do two different calculations in two totally different ways). And yet the video has been posted and reposted as "truth" against the fictional numbers that the WHO is putting out (in cahoots with Bill Gates). Not only that, there has been news coverage of the video that does not point out the fundamental flaws. It's like someone says that 2+2=5 and then conclude that Trump is the right president and then claims that they should get equal coverage to those people who say 2+2=4. >>>> >>>> And then to add fuel to the fire, Facebook and Youtube have insisted on taking these videos down because they are propogating false information about the coronavirus. And guess what the coronavirus deniers are now saying that this is further evidence of the conspiracy of the WHO and Bill Gates! >>>> >>>> So this general trend, among many other things, is what makes me incredibly pessimistic about things and which makes nostalgia incredibly appealing (although my nostalgia is to Make America Decent Again). >>>> >>>> Anyway, my apologies for writing gobbly-gook, I'm not editing these at all. But I'd be delighted to hear your non-nostalgia forms of hope (and perhaps your hope is not at all a hope for American? Maybe quite the opposite? In which case what I've described above is precisely what's needed!). >>>> >>>> And regardless of hope, how do you see this present moment in cultural-historical terms? >>>> >>>> -greg >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 12:29 PM Martin Packer > wrote: >>>> My point was about the problematic nature of the hegemony of exchange-based relations (i.e. the capitalist relation in which "what value can I get from you" - you might call it "The Art of the Deal"!). At the very least, might you agree that it is a problem if we see ALL human relationships in these terms? >>>> >>>> I don?t think it could ever happen, Greg. So I?m not going to worry about it. >>>> >>>> I do seem to be disagreeing with everyone on xmca these days! Perhaps it?s my way of coping. Perhaps it?s because I think that if there was ever a time for thinking things through carefully it is now. >>>> >>>> Surely impersonal anonymous kinds of interactions must have begun as soon as anything large enough to be called a city came into existence. I?m not a big fan of Dunbar?s number, but surely there are limits to the number of people with whom one can have an personal relationship, and those limits were exceeded at least 6,000 years ago. >>>> >>>> And is xmca a place of personal relationships? I have met in person less than 5 people on this list, I think. That?s to say, we make constant, fruitful and enjoyable use of impersonal relationships, including here. I for one wouldn?t wish to return to a time when everyone lived in villages of less than 150 people. >>>> >>>> And what I remember from Marx is that the original sin of capitalism is alienation of people not from one another but from their own labor. (Though the former may be one of the consequences of the latter.) Of course exploitation didn?t start with capitalism either, though wage labor under capitalism is a frighteningly efficient kind of exploitation. But if I had been born in feudal times I might have been laboring for the lord of the manor, who probably didn?t know me by name. If born in Roman times I might have been a slave, working for the lady of the villa. >>>> >>>> I appreciate that we are all experiencing a certain nostalgia for the good old days, of perhaps 4 months ago. And that those of us in lockdown are craving genuine personal interaction. But I?m not convinced that there ever was a golden age, a time when development was not distorted and people were not exploited. It is true that Pleistocene hunter-gatherers seem to have had a face-to-face kind of community in which collaboration and sharing were central. But even they practiced infanticide and left their old behind when they moved to a new camp. I don?t think I would have lasted then as long as I have now. >>>> >>>> Martin >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Apr 29, 2020, at 11:41 AM, Helena Worthen > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Greg, I think you are drawing attention to one of the consequences of the distortion of human development under capitalism. If that?s what you mean, then yes, the phenomenon of relationships that dead-end when a commodity exchange has taken place, rather than moving in a circle of reciprocal contribution, would be an example. >>>>> >>>>> A small relatively new private music school near us apparently has not been paying either its state unemployment insurance payroll taxes or making its equivalent contribution to a special fund set up for non-profits. Now, with the lockdown, it is having to deal with reimbursing the state for unemployment claims by its laid-off teachers. If you draw the circle of reciprocal contribution around this situation, look at what gets linked up. Students, their families, teachers, the management of the school, the enormous Employment Development Department at the state level, the legislature?the circle is gigantic, elements of it way beyond the horizon of what most people linked up in it imagine. >>>>> >>>>> In this case, the ?cut and run? took place at the point where the Board of the school decided somehow to assume they could risk taking on the obligation of paying unemployment benefits rather than pay the payroll tax. Easy to do ? it?s a small non-profit and this is something that gets easily overlooked by inexperienced managers. >>>>> >>>>> Nevertheless, the distortion that I?m thinking of ? the fear, anger and resentment that pile up when laid-off teachers apply for UI benefits? would be a consequence of capitalism. >>>>> >>>>> Helena Worthen >>>>> h elenaworthen@gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Apr 29, 2020, at 7:53 AM, Martin Packer > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Greg, >>>>>> >>>>>> Are you suggesting that you would like to be able to build a personal relationship with each and every one of your students? And with all your colleagues at the university.? And all the staff at the local supermarket? And all the people who work to send you packages from Amazon? And ?. >>>>>> >>>>>> That?s to say, there are reasons why humans have added ?anonymous? interactions to the personal and interpersonal relationship that (as you acknowledge) we still build and maintain. >>>>>> >>>>>> Martin >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Apr 28, 2020, at 10:13 PM, Greg Thompson > wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Helena, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It sounds like you are describing the commodity fetish. The labor of the professor is no longer seen as their own production. Instead it is seen that the professor simply draws from some "body of knowledge" or a credential that has a particular (monetary) value. As with any good (i.e., bad) commodity relation, even the exchange relations between buyer and seller (professor and student) are hidden and the professor is merely a conduit to that valuable knowledge or credential. What the professor has to offer is MONETIZED, perhaps we might say that the professor themself is monetized, even BRANDED (take a look at the web pages of young faculty and you'll see how important "brand yourself" has become in the academy). The professor and her work are understood in terms of market value, return on investment, earning potential of students. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Students today understand their task as being a good consumer; to get at least equal value from professors as they pay in tuition. (granted much of this is via a credential, but the professors are a big part of what stands behind the university's credential). You'll hear students frequently complain (rightly so) about how much they are paying for their education followed by some specific complaint about a professor. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is all part of a larger system in which this is understood as how the world works. You get what you pay for. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. And so on. Can we blame students for wanting to know what they are going to "get" for the money that they pay for college, and note that this gets even more intense during hard economic times, of which we are deep into right this moment (although the fear usually takes a semester or two before people start fleeing the humanities and the social sciences to business, engineering, computer science, or pre-anything). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> (and Lave and Mcdermott's article on Estranged Labor Learning might be worth revisiting in this regard?) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In addition to Marx's commodity fetish, a related and interesting way to think of this is in terms of Marcel Mauss' notion of gift vs. exchange economy (if you'll allow me to oversimplify a bit). The main difference is that an exchange economy involves transactions that are always calculated to be of exactly equal value. The $13 pair of shoes I buy at the store are worth EXACTLY $13. Each party to the transaction gets their "money's worth". Sounds great right? Fair, to be sure. Except it means that there is no relationship established between the parties. After the exchange, the parties no longer have any meaningful relationship. In contrast, a gifting relationship is not responded in kind (at least not initially). As Mary Douglas says in her intro to Mauss' book The Gift, "there are no free gifts". Note that this is a very different statement from Milton Friedman's "there ain't no such thing as a free lunch". Douglas means that the gift creates a sense of obligation and thus a relationship. As much as we might understand this in intimate spaces, as Americans in public spaces all we know are exchange relationships (people reject healthcare for all b.c. "why should I have to pay for healthcare for someone else", ditto for education (yes, there is a movement in the US to get rid of public education!)). This is the logic behind the out-of-hand rejection of socialism - it does not make sense in the logic of exchange. And, of course, taxes are justified only in as much as you "get" something for it (roads, police, fire department, public transport, etc.) and increasingly tax dollars are getting hyper-localized so that you get precisely what you pay for and don't pay a dime more (e.g., gated communities with private police force, fire dept, etc). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Interestingly I just today was privilege to hear a colleague present about his work in Papua New Guinea (the island of Missima, in the Massim region - the site of the Kula ring made famous to Westerners by Malinowski - and yes, the Kula ring still operates today). He noted that Missimans can't understand why Americans (and other Westerners) are so interested in engaging in exchanges that cut ties (e.g., buying things from them and then running off). And when Missimans do try to engage in gifting relationships with Americans, they are struck by how quickly the Americans run off, never to return (what idiots those Americans are!). It is absolutely baffling to them since they spend their days building relationships with others. Why would someone not want relationships with others? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Can we perhaps understand their bafflement? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And what, then, is human development within a world where relations of exchange are everything? (and thankfully, it isn't total, we Americans still view kin relations as something more than an exchange relation). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Anyway, that's at least two times two cents too much. And terribly inchoate. Far too "off the cuff". Apologies. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -greg >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 11:19 AM Helena Worthen > wrote: >>>>>>> thanks! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Helena Worthen >>>>>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Apr 27, 2020, at 7:48 PM, Andy Blunden > wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> How about this Helena?: >>>>>>>> "Time is the room of human development. A man who has no free time to dispose of, whose whole lifetime, apart from the mere physical interruptions by sleep, meals, and so forth, is absorbed by his labour for the capitalist, is less than a beast of burden. He is a mere machine for producing Foreign Wealth, broken in body and brutalized in mind. Yet the whole history of modern industry shows that capital, if not checked, will recklessly and ruthlessly work to cast down the whole working class to this utmost state of degradation." >>>>>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1865/value-price-profit/ch03.htm__;!!Mih3wA!R9kF_Lzgs4G-WCkYAOaHMRbBXNn2Q7XN2xsAswsQsqJnDGeKkjgVJjtkSEJFYEAbd8AQCw$ >>>>>>>> Andy Blunden >>>>>>>> Hegel for Social Movements >>>>>>>> Home Page >>>>>>>> On 28/04/2020 5:23 am, Helena Worthen wrote: >>>>>>>>> Andy?s paper has basically 4 parts. One a flyby overview of the history of the US ? this is where the majority of criticisms by people I know are showing up because people have different versions of that history. Then the argument that with the US going down as one of the poles of global leadership. My friends and family agree with this and are all, as Americans, offering examples of how they have experienced this. Andy notes that there is an empty spot at the top that hasn?t been taken yet. Then comes his COVID-19 point, that this is a global moment in which the whole world is participating. Most of the xmca discussion has been about that so far, if I?m not mistaken. And finally a challenge to foresee what we will learn from this experience. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> OK, now trying to forsee what we can learn is what I?m doing. So here is my question, appropriate for this list since we are all interested in education. I found myself writing the following, as part of describing the way a workforce can be intentionally divided into feuding packs of enemies so that we can?t take action in solidarity. We?re referring to ?the distortions of human development under capitalism? and say that ?we see this in its sharpest form in the for-profit part of the higher education industry. We have to look past the distortion to find the original, human connection?.? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> One of our readers asks where this concept came from. I don?t remember!! It makes sense, though, doesn?t? Anyone have any idea where it came from? So far I?m saying, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The concept of ?distortions of human development under capitalism? depends on looking at human development as occurring within a social, historical and cultural framework ? not just the development of individuals on their own or within a family or even a school, but within a society. Specifically we mean psychological and cognitive disabilities ranging from lack of empathy, envy, despair, alienation and bullying to obesity, eating disorders and stress-related auto-immune illness. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks ? H >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Helena Worthen >>>>>>>>> h elenaworthen@gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Apr 27, 2020, at 9:29 AM, Helena Worthen > wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I have been circulating Andy?s paper among close friends and family to generate discussion. What is mostly coming back is confirmation of the general arc, with examples from personal experience, but some disagreement about cause. These are ?inside? views ? meaning, people who are US citizens talking about us, so these are experiences of the passing of an era and what they look like from inside. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> About a year ago I realized that, for better or worse, I identify as ?an American.? And I don?t mean North American. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Chris Appy?s book, American Reckoning, is a pretty good history that takes us from the 1940s up to Obama and tracks the hole we fell into with the Vietnam War. For people of my generation (BA 1965 ? and I mention that date rather than when I was born because 1965 connects to the draft, the lottery, the anti-war demonstrations, the asssinations, etc etc) the story told with the Vietnam War in the foreground connects very tightly to lived experience. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Helena Worthen >>>>>>>>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 22, 2020, at 4:30 AM, Andy Blunden > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/American-Century.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!R9kF_Lzgs4G-WCkYAOaHMRbBXNn2Q7XN2xsAswsQsqJnDGeKkjgVJjtkSEJFYEAhf9GCEw$ [ethicalpolitics.org] >>>>>>>>>>> Andy >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> Andy Blunden >>>>>>>>>>> Hegel for Social Movements [brill.com] >>>>>>>>>>> Home Page [ethicalpolitics.org] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>>> Assistant Professor >>>> Department of Anthropology >>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >>>> Brigham Young University >>>> Provo, UT 84602 >>>> WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!R9kF_Lzgs4G-WCkYAOaHMRbBXNn2Q7XN2xsAswsQsqJnDGeKkjgVJjtkSEJFYEB-zszB0g$ >>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!R9kF_Lzgs4G-WCkYAOaHMRbBXNn2Q7XN2xsAswsQsqJnDGeKkjgVJjtkSEJFYEA645y46A$ >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200430/23d474f7/attachment.html From helenaworthen@gmail.com Thu Apr 30 13:47:30 2020 From: helenaworthen@gmail.com (Helena Worthen) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2020 13:47:30 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: As of 2020, the American Century is Over In-Reply-To: References: <85fc2557-3931-47ff-12d4-267e9281a955@marxists.org> <7F106666-4E69-4606-AAB0-10EE9E7A733D@gmail.com> <255B3664-FD24-4025-9854-0B5D8EFA2962@gmail.com> <1c1c059f-f9a9-3606-ae1c-56d0626dd7e6@marxists.org> <4BF1F09B-8C62-4B6B-A573-27F80EDBF7D4@gmail.com> <6EA7437D-09DC-4B52-B00B-218E674D1B85@gmail.com> <8BB24F8E-61F8-4181-B071-CC8AB20CF0A9@cantab.net> <616B25C5-D590-467D-9747-0B0D21217139@gmail.com> Message-ID: Yes, one could say that. It?s never a simple one-sided thing. My point is that the circles are there but hard to see unless that?s what you happen to be paying attention to, and so when one of them gets cut we?re left saying. ?How can that be? How did that happen?? or ?Poor so-and-so, she was unlucky, the school was stupid,? etc. Constructing and watchdogging these circles of reciprocity is an enormous task. The incentives are more and more- now, mostly ? on the side of snipping. Another example: The Voting Rights Act of 1965. Who knew? We got used to it, took it for granted. Then in 2013 the Supreme Court struck down a major part of it that protected (mostly) minority voters from practices that would discriminate against their right to vote. Snip!! Cut! Going back to the social situation of development: these circles are circles that wind individuals, organizations, groups, agencies etc all together into a flow of obligation, consent, practice, commitment, etc etc. It?s not just one-on-one relationships. H Helena Worthen helenaworthen.wordpress.com > On Apr 30, 2020, at 12:39 PM, Martin Packer wrote: > > Okay, I can see that this school broke the law by not paying the required taxes. What?s not clear to me is how capitalism is the cause of that. Couldn?t one say that this is an example of how even US capitalism has at least attempted to implement some degree of redistribution of wealth, and that the state will or should sanction (punish) this kind of attempt to avoid the responsibility to contribute to the public good? > > Martin > > > > >> On Apr 30, 2020, at 1:55 PM, Helena Worthen > wrote: >> >> Yes, Martin ? exactly. The school (a private, not a public school, that charges over $40,000 per student for one year of instruction) failed to pay the tax per employee on the payroll. It should have been paying this tax. That?s an understood relationship on the one hand between the private employer and the state and on the other hand between the employee and the employer. This tax supports a public fund that pays for unemployment benefits. Now that all the employees are laid off, they apply to get unemployment benefits, and lo and behold, they can?t get them. >> >> Whether the school is a for-profit (and there are many, many of those in the US) or a ?non-profit,? which is a slippery term, I don?t know. But either way, it is a business. It is a type of enterprise that flourishes under capitalism. I don?t have any problem with it for what it is ? I?m sure the teachers are good, the students learn a lot, it?s a great experience for all involved ? but the economic system within which it has appeared (it?s only a few years old) is one that incentivizes breaking the circle of reciprocal social relationships in this way. >> >> H >> >> Helena Worthen >> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >> >> >> >> >>> On Apr 30, 2020, at 11:42 AM, Martin Packer > wrote: >>> >>> Hi Helena, >>> >>> Help me understand. You?re suggesting that capitalism has destroyed "circles of reciprocal contribution? such as this one? >>> >>> A small relatively new private music school near us apparently has not been paying either its state unemployment insurance payroll taxes or making its equivalent contribution to a special fund set up for non-profits. Now, with the lockdown, it is having to deal with reimbursing the state for unemployment claims by its laid-off teachers. If you draw the circle of reciprocal contribution around this situation, look at what gets linked up. Students, their families, teachers, the management of the school, the enormous Employment Development Department at the state level, the legislature?the circle is gigantic, elements of it way beyond the horizon of what most people linked up in it imagine. >>> >>> Martin >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Apr 30, 2020, at 12:59 PM, Helena Worthen > wrote: >>>> >>>> Greg, Martin ? The circle of relationships that I described was not one-on-one personal relationships. They are a combination of personal, contractual, organizational and state-to-enterprise-to-population-to-individual relationships. These are as much ?relationships? as who talks to whom individually. Tracing the circle of commitment, obligation, security and reciprocity is how you can see the relationships. This is the ?circle of reciprocal contribution? I was talking about. >>>> >>>> These relationships take an unthinkable amount of creativity and effort to build. >>>> >>>> Another example (and I?ll quit if people aren?t interested): OSHA (Occupational Safety and Health Agency) sets standards that have to be upheld regarding working conditions. The idea is to protect workers from hazards. I?m sure I don?t need to make a list. But where do these standards come from? Someone has to identify the problem, do the research, write the proposal, get the plan through the legislature, and then train people to enforce it. Every single step of the way, it?s a relationship of one kind or another ?sometimes it?s one-on-one, sometimes it?s an attorney bringing a lawsuit, sometimes it?s someone making a speech to a crowd or a journalist photographing an accident scene. It?s a web of relationships. >>>> >>>> >>>> Helena Worthen >>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Apr 30, 2020, at 10:44 AM, Greg Thompson > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Martin, >>>>> >>>>> I'm delighted by your optimism and hopefulness about the U.S.! >>>>> (particularly for someone who left the U.S.! "It's a lovely place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there"). >>>>> and, of course, nostalgia has its problems (as you might imagine, my colleague's experiences in PNG were not all flowers and roses). >>>>> >>>>> But it is at least something to hold onto. >>>>> >>>>> Perhaps you could share where you place your hopes? or what is your long duree visions of things (either as they HAVE happened) or as they might happen? >>>>> >>>>> Based on what I'm seeing circulating among friends (both in person and on social media), I am becoming increasingly pessimistic about the hopes for America. As just one recent example, there is a video that was circulating in which two California doctors present a bunch of numbers to show that the coronavirus is not at all a serious threat. The only trouble is, their calculations are totally mistaken (and not only are they mistaken but they do two different calculations in two totally different ways). And yet the video has been posted and reposted as "truth" against the fictional numbers that the WHO is putting out (in cahoots with Bill Gates). Not only that, there has been news coverage of the video that does not point out the fundamental flaws. It's like someone says that 2+2=5 and then conclude that Trump is the right president and then claims that they should get equal coverage to those people who say 2+2=4. >>>>> >>>>> And then to add fuel to the fire, Facebook and Youtube have insisted on taking these videos down because they are propogating false information about the coronavirus. And guess what the coronavirus deniers are now saying that this is further evidence of the conspiracy of the WHO and Bill Gates! >>>>> >>>>> So this general trend, among many other things, is what makes me incredibly pessimistic about things and which makes nostalgia incredibly appealing (although my nostalgia is to Make America Decent Again). >>>>> >>>>> Anyway, my apologies for writing gobbly-gook, I'm not editing these at all. But I'd be delighted to hear your non-nostalgia forms of hope (and perhaps your hope is not at all a hope for American? Maybe quite the opposite? In which case what I've described above is precisely what's needed!). >>>>> >>>>> And regardless of hope, how do you see this present moment in cultural-historical terms? >>>>> >>>>> -greg >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 12:29 PM Martin Packer > wrote: >>>>> My point was about the problematic nature of the hegemony of exchange-based relations (i.e. the capitalist relation in which "what value can I get from you" - you might call it "The Art of the Deal"!). At the very least, might you agree that it is a problem if we see ALL human relationships in these terms? >>>>> >>>>> I don?t think it could ever happen, Greg. So I?m not going to worry about it. >>>>> >>>>> I do seem to be disagreeing with everyone on xmca these days! Perhaps it?s my way of coping. Perhaps it?s because I think that if there was ever a time for thinking things through carefully it is now. >>>>> >>>>> Surely impersonal anonymous kinds of interactions must have begun as soon as anything large enough to be called a city came into existence. I?m not a big fan of Dunbar?s number, but surely there are limits to the number of people with whom one can have an personal relationship, and those limits were exceeded at least 6,000 years ago. >>>>> >>>>> And is xmca a place of personal relationships? I have met in person less than 5 people on this list, I think. That?s to say, we make constant, fruitful and enjoyable use of impersonal relationships, including here. I for one wouldn?t wish to return to a time when everyone lived in villages of less than 150 people. >>>>> >>>>> And what I remember from Marx is that the original sin of capitalism is alienation of people not from one another but from their own labor. (Though the former may be one of the consequences of the latter.) Of course exploitation didn?t start with capitalism either, though wage labor under capitalism is a frighteningly efficient kind of exploitation. But if I had been born in feudal times I might have been laboring for the lord of the manor, who probably didn?t know me by name. If born in Roman times I might have been a slave, working for the lady of the villa. >>>>> >>>>> I appreciate that we are all experiencing a certain nostalgia for the good old days, of perhaps 4 months ago. And that those of us in lockdown are craving genuine personal interaction. But I?m not convinced that there ever was a golden age, a time when development was not distorted and people were not exploited. It is true that Pleistocene hunter-gatherers seem to have had a face-to-face kind of community in which collaboration and sharing were central. But even they practiced infanticide and left their old behind when they moved to a new camp. I don?t think I would have lasted then as long as I have now. >>>>> >>>>> Martin >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Apr 29, 2020, at 11:41 AM, Helena Worthen > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Greg, I think you are drawing attention to one of the consequences of the distortion of human development under capitalism. If that?s what you mean, then yes, the phenomenon of relationships that dead-end when a commodity exchange has taken place, rather than moving in a circle of reciprocal contribution, would be an example. >>>>>> >>>>>> A small relatively new private music school near us apparently has not been paying either its state unemployment insurance payroll taxes or making its equivalent contribution to a special fund set up for non-profits. Now, with the lockdown, it is having to deal with reimbursing the state for unemployment claims by its laid-off teachers. If you draw the circle of reciprocal contribution around this situation, look at what gets linked up. Students, their families, teachers, the management of the school, the enormous Employment Development Department at the state level, the legislature?the circle is gigantic, elements of it way beyond the horizon of what most people linked up in it imagine. >>>>>> >>>>>> In this case, the ?cut and run? took place at the point where the Board of the school decided somehow to assume they could risk taking on the obligation of paying unemployment benefits rather than pay the payroll tax. Easy to do ? it?s a small non-profit and this is something that gets easily overlooked by inexperienced managers. >>>>>> >>>>>> Nevertheless, the distortion that I?m thinking of ? the fear, anger and resentment that pile up when laid-off teachers apply for UI benefits? would be a consequence of capitalism. >>>>>> >>>>>> Helena Worthen >>>>>> h elenaworthen@gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Apr 29, 2020, at 7:53 AM, Martin Packer > wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Greg, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Are you suggesting that you would like to be able to build a personal relationship with each and every one of your students? And with all your colleagues at the university.? And all the staff at the local supermarket? And all the people who work to send you packages from Amazon? And ?. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That?s to say, there are reasons why humans have added ?anonymous? interactions to the personal and interpersonal relationship that (as you acknowledge) we still build and maintain. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Martin >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Apr 28, 2020, at 10:13 PM, Greg Thompson > wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Helena, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It sounds like you are describing the commodity fetish. The labor of the professor is no longer seen as their own production. Instead it is seen that the professor simply draws from some "body of knowledge" or a credential that has a particular (monetary) value. As with any good (i.e., bad) commodity relation, even the exchange relations between buyer and seller (professor and student) are hidden and the professor is merely a conduit to that valuable knowledge or credential. What the professor has to offer is MONETIZED, perhaps we might say that the professor themself is monetized, even BRANDED (take a look at the web pages of young faculty and you'll see how important "brand yourself" has become in the academy). The professor and her work are understood in terms of market value, return on investment, earning potential of students. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Students today understand their task as being a good consumer; to get at least equal value from professors as they pay in tuition. (granted much of this is via a credential, but the professors are a big part of what stands behind the university's credential). You'll hear students frequently complain (rightly so) about how much they are paying for their education followed by some specific complaint about a professor. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This is all part of a larger system in which this is understood as how the world works. You get what you pay for. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. And so on. Can we blame students for wanting to know what they are going to "get" for the money that they pay for college, and note that this gets even more intense during hard economic times, of which we are deep into right this moment (although the fear usually takes a semester or two before people start fleeing the humanities and the social sciences to business, engineering, computer science, or pre-anything). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> (and Lave and Mcdermott's article on Estranged Labor Learning might be worth revisiting in this regard?) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In addition to Marx's commodity fetish, a related and interesting way to think of this is in terms of Marcel Mauss' notion of gift vs. exchange economy (if you'll allow me to oversimplify a bit). The main difference is that an exchange economy involves transactions that are always calculated to be of exactly equal value. The $13 pair of shoes I buy at the store are worth EXACTLY $13. Each party to the transaction gets their "money's worth". Sounds great right? Fair, to be sure. Except it means that there is no relationship established between the parties. After the exchange, the parties no longer have any meaningful relationship. In contrast, a gifting relationship is not responded in kind (at least not initially). As Mary Douglas says in her intro to Mauss' book The Gift, "there are no free gifts". Note that this is a very different statement from Milton Friedman's "there ain't no such thing as a free lunch". Douglas means that the gift creates a sense of obligation and thus a relationship. As much as we might understand this in intimate spaces, as Americans in public spaces all we know are exchange relationships (people reject healthcare for all b.c. "why should I have to pay for healthcare for someone else", ditto for education (yes, there is a movement in the US to get rid of public education!)). This is the logic behind the out-of-hand rejection of socialism - it does not make sense in the logic of exchange. And, of course, taxes are justified only in as much as you "get" something for it (roads, police, fire department, public transport, etc.) and increasingly tax dollars are getting hyper-localized so that you get precisely what you pay for and don't pay a dime more (e.g., gated communities with private police force, fire dept, etc). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Interestingly I just today was privilege to hear a colleague present about his work in Papua New Guinea (the island of Missima, in the Massim region - the site of the Kula ring made famous to Westerners by Malinowski - and yes, the Kula ring still operates today). He noted that Missimans can't understand why Americans (and other Westerners) are so interested in engaging in exchanges that cut ties (e.g., buying things from them and then running off). And when Missimans do try to engage in gifting relationships with Americans, they are struck by how quickly the Americans run off, never to return (what idiots those Americans are!). It is absolutely baffling to them since they spend their days building relationships with others. Why would someone not want relationships with others? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Can we perhaps understand their bafflement? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And what, then, is human development within a world where relations of exchange are everything? (and thankfully, it isn't total, we Americans still view kin relations as something more than an exchange relation). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Anyway, that's at least two times two cents too much. And terribly inchoate. Far too "off the cuff". Apologies. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -greg >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 11:19 AM Helena Worthen > wrote: >>>>>>>> thanks! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Helena Worthen >>>>>>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Apr 27, 2020, at 7:48 PM, Andy Blunden > wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> How about this Helena?: >>>>>>>>> "Time is the room of human development. A man who has no free time to dispose of, whose whole lifetime, apart from the mere physical interruptions by sleep, meals, and so forth, is absorbed by his labour for the capitalist, is less than a beast of burden. He is a mere machine for producing Foreign Wealth, broken in body and brutalized in mind. Yet the whole history of modern industry shows that capital, if not checked, will recklessly and ruthlessly work to cast down the whole working class to this utmost state of degradation." >>>>>>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1865/value-price-profit/ch03.htm__;!!Mih3wA!XWFo0onec9GjCjlC-EIZkDLu0UG-_jHhzmKdUB7NPLw_lHHfUUUTNijpoeGOMFeObnVnlA$ >>>>>>>>> Andy Blunden >>>>>>>>> Hegel for Social Movements >>>>>>>>> Home Page >>>>>>>>> On 28/04/2020 5:23 am, Helena Worthen wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Andy?s paper has basically 4 parts. One a flyby overview of the history of the US ? this is where the majority of criticisms by people I know are showing up because people have different versions of that history. Then the argument that with the US going down as one of the poles of global leadership. My friends and family agree with this and are all, as Americans, offering examples of how they have experienced this. Andy notes that there is an empty spot at the top that hasn?t been taken yet. Then comes his COVID-19 point, that this is a global moment in which the whole world is participating. Most of the xmca discussion has been about that so far, if I?m not mistaken. And finally a challenge to foresee what we will learn from this experience. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> OK, now trying to forsee what we can learn is what I?m doing. So here is my question, appropriate for this list since we are all interested in education. I found myself writing the following, as part of describing the way a workforce can be intentionally divided into feuding packs of enemies so that we can?t take action in solidarity. We?re referring to ?the distortions of human development under capitalism? and say that ?we see this in its sharpest form in the for-profit part of the higher education industry. We have to look past the distortion to find the original, human connection?.? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> One of our readers asks where this concept came from. I don?t remember!! It makes sense, though, doesn?t? Anyone have any idea where it came from? So far I?m saying, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The concept of ?distortions of human development under capitalism? depends on looking at human development as occurring within a social, historical and cultural framework ? not just the development of individuals on their own or within a family or even a school, but within a society. Specifically we mean psychological and cognitive disabilities ranging from lack of empathy, envy, despair, alienation and bullying to obesity, eating disorders and stress-related auto-immune illness. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks ? H >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Helena Worthen >>>>>>>>>> h elenaworthen@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 27, 2020, at 9:29 AM, Helena Worthen > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I have been circulating Andy?s paper among close friends and family to generate discussion. What is mostly coming back is confirmation of the general arc, with examples from personal experience, but some disagreement about cause. These are ?inside? views ? meaning, people who are US citizens talking about us, so these are experiences of the passing of an era and what they look like from inside. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> About a year ago I realized that, for better or worse, I identify as ?an American.? And I don?t mean North American. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Chris Appy?s book, American Reckoning, is a pretty good history that takes us from the 1940s up to Obama and tracks the hole we fell into with the Vietnam War. For people of my generation (BA 1965 ? and I mention that date rather than when I was born because 1965 connects to the draft, the lottery, the anti-war demonstrations, the asssinations, etc etc) the story told with the Vietnam War in the foreground connects very tightly to lived experience. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Helena Worthen >>>>>>>>>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 22, 2020, at 4:30 AM, Andy Blunden > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/American-Century.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!XWFo0onec9GjCjlC-EIZkDLu0UG-_jHhzmKdUB7NPLw_lHHfUUUTNijpoeGOMFfsBLfhTg$ [ethicalpolitics.org] >>>>>>>>>>>> Andy >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> Andy Blunden >>>>>>>>>>>> Hegel for Social Movements [brill.com] >>>>>>>>>>>> Home Page [ethicalpolitics.org] >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>>>> Assistant Professor >>>>> Department of Anthropology >>>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >>>>> Brigham Young University >>>>> Provo, UT 84602 >>>>> WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!XWFo0onec9GjCjlC-EIZkDLu0UG-_jHhzmKdUB7NPLw_lHHfUUUTNijpoeGOMFdS8aWu2Q$ >>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!XWFo0onec9GjCjlC-EIZkDLu0UG-_jHhzmKdUB7NPLw_lHHfUUUTNijpoeGOMFeNHI1taA$ >>> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200430/f429e6f8/attachment.html From Phillip.White@ucdenver.edu Thu Apr 30 15:20:06 2020 From: Phillip.White@ucdenver.edu (White, Phillip) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2020 22:20:06 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: As of 2020, the American Century is Over In-Reply-To: References: <85fc2557-3931-47ff-12d4-267e9281a955@marxists.org> <7F106666-4E69-4606-AAB0-10EE9E7A733D@gmail.com> <255B3664-FD24-4025-9854-0B5D8EFA2962@gmail.com> <1c1c059f-f9a9-3606-ae1c-56d0626dd7e6@marxists.org> <4BF1F09B-8C62-4B6B-A573-27F80EDBF7D4@gmail.com> <6EA7437D-09DC-4B52-B00B-218E674D1B85@gmail.com> <8BB24F8E-61F8-4181-B071-CC8AB20CF0A9@cantab.net> <616B25C5-D590-467D-9747-0B0D21217139@gmail.com> , Message-ID: first, i'm hoping that here in the reciprocal world of CulturalHistoricalActivityTheory, that we can bring up a greater focus on History than we have of late. second, your second example, here, Helena, of the breaking the Voting Rights Act of '65 is a better example than the music school's failure to pay into unemployment insurance. another example i can think of was the attack on the MUNI labor union in San Francisco, in blaming the labor union drivers' efficiency for transit problems, rather than for the poor physical and work conditions within the transit agency. however, rather than the reason for these breaks in systems of relationships, i think it's important to look at other systems of relationships, and of course power relationships, found within neoliberalism. if you remember Dorothy Holland's et al, Identity and Agency in Cultural Worlds, there is a focus in on how individual negotiate "figured worlds". so, to go back to the Supreme Court's decision to erase the Voting Rights law, there has to be an understanding of the particular acts and beliefs are valued over others. i thinking you are writing here about the repercussions found in the prevalence of neoliberalism, and in particular how it fits within larger american figured worlds and myths. it can be thought that neoliberalism as an acceptable figured world began with Jimmy Carter and the deregulations of trucking and transportation. of course Reaganism and Thatcherism accelerated this acceptance - and if you look back to the novels Dickens or Wm Blake, and then farther back into Calvinism you can begin to see that neoliberalism has deep deep cultural roots - especially within the English speaking world. and, a final assertion, to connect to the more prevalent figured worlds of americans, we are going to have to use a vocabulary different from that used by, say, Hegel or Marx, precisely because these words have little emotional or intellectual currency (and i use the word currency deliberately) within the activities and values prized by the popular myths of most americans. phillip -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200430/fa85105e/attachment.html From helenaworthen@gmail.com Thu Apr 30 16:21:15 2020 From: helenaworthen@gmail.com (Helena Worthen) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2020 16:21:15 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: As of 2020, the American Century is Over In-Reply-To: References: <85fc2557-3931-47ff-12d4-267e9281a955@marxists.org> <7F106666-4E69-4606-AAB0-10EE9E7A733D@gmail.com> <255B3664-FD24-4025-9854-0B5D8EFA2962@gmail.com> <1c1c059f-f9a9-3606-ae1c-56d0626dd7e6@marxists.org> <4BF1F09B-8C62-4B6B-A573-27F80EDBF7D4@gmail.com> <6EA7437D-09DC-4B52-B00B-218E674D1B85@gmail.com> <8BB24F8E-61F8-4181-B071-CC8AB20CF0A9@cantab.net> <616B25C5-D590-467D-9747-0B0D21217139@gmail.com> Message-ID: Phillip ? Yes, but not ?rather than? ? I?d say ?and also.? And some figured worlds make headlines; others are almost invisible unless you?re looking for them. Good history, Thanks ? H Helena Worthen helenaworthen.wordpress.com > On Apr 30, 2020, at 3:20 PM, White, Phillip wrote: > > first, i'm hoping that here in the reciprocal world of CulturalHistoricalActivityTheory, that we can bring up a greater focus on History than we have of late. > > second, your second example, here, Helena, of the breaking the Voting Rights Act of '65 is a better example than the music school's failure to pay into unemployment insurance. another example i can think of was the attack on the MUNI labor union in San Francisco, in blaming the labor union drivers' efficiency for transit problems, rather than for the poor physical and work conditions within the transit agency. > > however, rather than the reason for these breaks in systems of relationships, i think it's important to look at other systems of relationships, and of course power relationships, found within neoliberalism. if you remember Dorothy Holland's et al, Identity and Agency in Cultural Worlds, there is a focus in on how individual negotiate "figured worlds". > > so, to go back to the Supreme Court's decision to erase the Voting Rights law, there has to be an understanding of the particular acts and beliefs are valued over others. > > i thinking you are writing here about the repercussions found in the prevalence of neoliberalism, and in particular how it fits within larger american figured worlds and myths. > > it can be thought that neoliberalism as an acceptable figured world began with Jimmy Carter and the deregulations of trucking and transportation. of course Reaganism and Thatcherism accelerated this acceptance - and if you look back to the novels Dickens or Wm Blake, and then farther back into Calvinism you can begin to see that neoliberalism has deep deep cultural roots - especially within the English speaking world. > > and, a final assertion, to connect to the more prevalent figured worlds of americans, we are going to have to use a vocabulary different from that used by, say, Hegel or Marx, precisely because these words have little emotional or intellectual currency (and i use the word currency deliberately) within the activities and values prized by the popular myths of most americans. > > phillip > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200430/e679ac53/attachment.html From anthonymbarra@gmail.com Thu Apr 30 18:15:11 2020 From: anthonymbarra@gmail.com (Anthony Barra) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2020 21:15:11 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: FW: REMINDER! May Day Event: Workers of the World Unite for a New Social Contract with No Exclusions In-Reply-To: <000601d61f13$cbd32360$63796a20$@att.net> References: <000601d61f13$cbd32360$63796a20$@att.net> Message-ID: Rayne Skye Meadows is rumored to make an appearance as well. A landmark year for sure. On Thu, Apr 30, 2020 at 1:23 PM Peg Griffin, Ph.D. wrote: > In case you want to tune in in a little less than 24 hours: > > > > *From:* Solidarity Center [mailto:scadmin@solidaritycenter.org] > *Sent:* Thursday, April 30, 2020 12:02 PM > *To:* peg.griffin@att.net > *Subject:* REMINDER! May Day Event: Workers of the World Unite for a New > Social Contract with No Exclusions > > > > [image: > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://gallery.mailchimp.com/dae3e68b7fc12b0923d77fcde/images/8e2f2075-94d7-4745-a1f2-a9b32582f10a.png__;!!Mih3wA!S7xU4wYX3hv2RWVKV9wOxyUCFkkSemmDXD7cQIXgzunfbijwx-lvDfjSEYBqyImbWGiMHA$ ] > > > > [image: > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mcusercontent.com/dae3e68b7fc12b0923d77fcde/images/b7e2afdf-8c12-438b-bdf6-b6d887043d7c.png__;!!Mih3wA!S7xU4wYX3hv2RWVKV9wOxyUCFkkSemmDXD7cQIXgzunfbijwx-lvDfjSEYBqyImJeEfALw$ ] > > *Workers of the World Unite* > *for a New Social Contract* > > *Dear Friends:* > > Join worker rights advocates from Bangladesh, Honduras, the Middle > East and global union organizations for a special online May Day event as > they share how they are ensuring that migrant workers and all workers, > regardless of status, have protections amid the coronavirus pandemic. > > Together, we will discuss how we can build on the lessons from the > COVID-19 crisis to push for a new social contract with no exclusions. > > *May 1, 2020* > > > *11:00 a.m. EDTRegister here: * > *https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://zoom.us/webinar/register/1615876854696/WN_LtBrCJ7BTYO_6D3kGILB8Q*__;Kg!!Mih3wA!S7xU4wYX3hv2RWVKV9wOxyUCFkkSemmDXD7cQIXgzunfbijwx-lvDfjSEYBqyIneIG8t6w$ > > > > The COVID crisis exposes systemic injustices that the global labor > movement has long fought to change ? informality in our economy, weak > health care systems, lack of a social safety net, structural racism, gender > discrimination and inhumane and exploitative migration regimes. > > We can, and must, build on this crisis to demand and create change! > > *Register today for the online discussion* > > *,* co-sponsored by the International Trade Union Confederation and > AFL-CIO. > > *Moderator* > Cathy Feingold, AFL-CIO International Director, International Trade Union > Confederation Deputy President > > *Speakers* > > - Chidi King, Director of Equality Department, International Trade > Union Confederation > - Genevieve Gencianos, Migration Program Coordinator, Public Services > International > - Hind Cherrouk, Middle East North Africa Regional Director, > Solidarity Center > - Nazma Akter, President, Sommilito Garment Sramik Federation > - Maria Elena Sabill?n, Solidarity Center, Honduras > > > > > > [image: Facebook] > > > [image: Twitter] > > > [image: Link] > > > [image: Website] > > > > > > > *Copyright ? 2020 Solidarity Center, All rights reserved.* > You are receiving this email because you signed up for emails on our > website and/or attended one of Solidarity Center's events. > > *Our mailing address is:* > > Solidarity Center > > 1130 Connecticut Ave NW # 800 > > Washington, DC 20036-3904 > > > Add us to your address book > > > > > Want to change how you receive these emails? > You can update your preferences > > or unsubscribe from this list > > . > > Privacy Policy > > | Terms of Use > > > [image: > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://solidaritycenter.us12.list-manage.com/track/open.php?u=dae3e68b7fc12b0923d77fcde&id=b06bcc3290&e=af01bcc874__;!!Mih3wA!S7xU4wYX3hv2RWVKV9wOxyUCFkkSemmDXD7cQIXgzunfbijwx-lvDfjSEYBqyIlFz1Blww$ ] > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200430/cf076ce6/attachment.html From mpacker@cantab.net Thu Apr 30 18:18:01 2020 From: mpacker@cantab.net (Martin Packer) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2020 20:18:01 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: As of 2020, the American Century is Over In-Reply-To: References: <85fc2557-3931-47ff-12d4-267e9281a955@marxists.org> <7F106666-4E69-4606-AAB0-10EE9E7A733D@gmail.com> <255B3664-FD24-4025-9854-0B5D8EFA2962@gmail.com> <1c1c059f-f9a9-3606-ae1c-56d0626dd7e6@marxists.org> <4BF1F09B-8C62-4B6B-A573-27F80EDBF7D4@gmail.com> <6EA7437D-09DC-4B52-B00B-218E674D1B85@gmail.com> <8BB24F8E-61F8-4181-B071-CC8AB20CF0A9@cantab.net> Message-ID: <00195FA2-F3D5-41A8-9E42-E3AEEBD32A1D@cantab.net> Hi Greg, So you?re asking me what my theory of history is? :) Let me start by explaining that I simply think that a society without personal relationship wouldn?t be viable. It would be like being in (individual) lockdown? (And consider how Trump, who I assume you were alluding to, has promoted his daughter and son-in-law. Not because of the value they provide him, because they provide no value. IMHO. No, he values them as individuals, in his own way.) To me it?s not a matter of being hopeful or not. I am simply trying to understand what is going on. That is not made easier by the media, which are in fully hysterical mode. For example, the staid BBC was yesterday announcing that more people have died of Covid in the US than died during the Vietnam war. That is true: an estimated 47,434 American soldiers were killed in battle during the Vietnam War. But one could add that over 150,000 Americans die each year from lung cancer. I just dug out my copy of Cohen?s ?Karl Marx?s Theory of History,? because I wanted to confirm that Marx considered capitalism to be more advanced than any previous kind of societal organization. And yes, Marx viewed capitalism as most able to develop human beings' productive powers, and to extend human freedom. And of course Marx saw capitalism as going through periodic crises, each worse than the last. One thing I?ve been wondering about are the consequences of the fact that governments around the world have *deliberately* brought on an economic depression. The fact that humans have this degree of control over our respective economies ? not *full* control, obviously: we wait to see whether they can be successfully brought *out* of their medically-induced coma ? is I think unprecedented. Could we be becoming conscious agents of history? saludos Martin > On Apr 30, 2020, at 12:44 PM, Greg Thompson wrote: > > Martin, > > I'm delighted by your optimism and hopefulness about the U.S.! > (particularly for someone who left the U.S.! "It's a lovely place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there"). > and, of course, nostalgia has its problems (as you might imagine, my colleague's experiences in PNG were not all flowers and roses). > > But it is at least something to hold onto. > > Perhaps you could share where you place your hopes? or what is your long duree visions of things (either as they HAVE happened) or as they might happen? > > Based on what I'm seeing circulating among friends (both in person and on social media), I am becoming increasingly pessimistic about the hopes for America. As just one recent example, there is a video that was circulating in which two California doctors present a bunch of numbers to show that the coronavirus is not at all a serious threat. The only trouble is, their calculations are totally mistaken (and not only are they mistaken but they do two different calculations in two totally different ways). And yet the video has been posted and reposted as "truth" against the fictional numbers that the WHO is putting out (in cahoots with Bill Gates). Not only that, there has been news coverage of the video that does not point out the fundamental flaws. It's like someone says that 2+2=5 and then conclude that Trump is the right president and then claims that they should get equal coverage to those people who say 2+2=4. > > And then to add fuel to the fire, Facebook and Youtube have insisted on taking these videos down because they are propogating false information about the coronavirus. And guess what the coronavirus deniers are now saying that this is further evidence of the conspiracy of the WHO and Bill Gates! > > So this general trend, among many other things, is what makes me incredibly pessimistic about things and which makes nostalgia incredibly appealing (although my nostalgia is to Make America Decent Again). > > Anyway, my apologies for writing gobbly-gook, I'm not editing these at all. But I'd be delighted to hear your non-nostalgia forms of hope (and perhaps your hope is not at all a hope for American? Maybe quite the opposite? In which case what I've described above is precisely what's needed!). > > And regardless of hope, how do you see this present moment in cultural-historical terms? > > -greg > > > > On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 12:29 PM Martin Packer > wrote: > My point was about the problematic nature of the hegemony of exchange-based relations (i.e. the capitalist relation in which "what value can I get from you" - you might call it "The Art of the Deal"!). At the very least, might you agree that it is a problem if we see ALL human relationships in these terms? > > I don?t think it could ever happen, Greg. So I?m not going to worry about it. > > I do seem to be disagreeing with everyone on xmca these days! Perhaps it?s my way of coping. Perhaps it?s because I think that if there was ever a time for thinking things through carefully it is now. > > Surely impersonal anonymous kinds of interactions must have begun as soon as anything large enough to be called a city came into existence. I?m not a big fan of Dunbar?s number, but surely there are limits to the number of people with whom one can have an personal relationship, and those limits were exceeded at least 6,000 years ago. > > And is xmca a place of personal relationships? I have met in person less than 5 people on this list, I think. That?s to say, we make constant, fruitful and enjoyable use of impersonal relationships, including here. I for one wouldn?t wish to return to a time when everyone lived in villages of less than 150 people. > > And what I remember from Marx is that the original sin of capitalism is alienation of people not from one another but from their own labor. (Though the former may be one of the consequences of the latter.) Of course exploitation didn?t start with capitalism either, though wage labor under capitalism is a frighteningly efficient kind of exploitation. But if I had been born in feudal times I might have been laboring for the lord of the manor, who probably didn?t know me by name. If born in Roman times I might have been a slave, working for the lady of the villa. > > I appreciate that we are all experiencing a certain nostalgia for the good old days, of perhaps 4 months ago. And that those of us in lockdown are craving genuine personal interaction. But I?m not convinced that there ever was a golden age, a time when development was not distorted and people were not exploited. It is true that Pleistocene hunter-gatherers seem to have had a face-to-face kind of community in which collaboration and sharing were central. But even they practiced infanticide and left their old behind when they moved to a new camp. I don?t think I would have lasted then as long as I have now. > > Martin > > > >> On Apr 29, 2020, at 11:41 AM, Helena Worthen > wrote: >> >> Greg, I think you are drawing attention to one of the consequences of the distortion of human development under capitalism. If that?s what you mean, then yes, the phenomenon of relationships that dead-end when a commodity exchange has taken place, rather than moving in a circle of reciprocal contribution, would be an example. >> >> A small relatively new private music school near us apparently has not been paying either its state unemployment insurance payroll taxes or making its equivalent contribution to a special fund set up for non-profits. Now, with the lockdown, it is having to deal with reimbursing the state for unemployment claims by its laid-off teachers. If you draw the circle of reciprocal contribution around this situation, look at what gets linked up. Students, their families, teachers, the management of the school, the enormous Employment Development Department at the state level, the legislature?the circle is gigantic, elements of it way beyond the horizon of what most people linked up in it imagine. >> >> In this case, the ?cut and run? took place at the point where the Board of the school decided somehow to assume they could risk taking on the obligation of paying unemployment benefits rather than pay the payroll tax. Easy to do ? it?s a small non-profit and this is something that gets easily overlooked by inexperienced managers. >> >> Nevertheless, the distortion that I?m thinking of ? the fear, anger and resentment that pile up when laid-off teachers apply for UI benefits? would be a consequence of capitalism. >> >> Helena Worthen >> h elenaworthen@gmail.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Apr 29, 2020, at 7:53 AM, Martin Packer > wrote: >>> >>> Hi Greg, >>> >>> Are you suggesting that you would like to be able to build a personal relationship with each and every one of your students? And with all your colleagues at the university.? And all the staff at the local supermarket? And all the people who work to send you packages from Amazon? And ?. >>> >>> That?s to say, there are reasons why humans have added ?anonymous? interactions to the personal and interpersonal relationship that (as you acknowledge) we still build and maintain. >>> >>> Martin >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Apr 28, 2020, at 10:13 PM, Greg Thompson > wrote: >>>> >>>> Helena, >>>> >>>> It sounds like you are describing the commodity fetish. The labor of the professor is no longer seen as their own production. Instead it is seen that the professor simply draws from some "body of knowledge" or a credential that has a particular (monetary) value. As with any good (i.e., bad) commodity relation, even the exchange relations between buyer and seller (professor and student) are hidden and the professor is merely a conduit to that valuable knowledge or credential. What the professor has to offer is MONETIZED, perhaps we might say that the professor themself is monetized, even BRANDED (take a look at the web pages of young faculty and you'll see how important "brand yourself" has become in the academy). The professor and her work are understood in terms of market value, return on investment, earning potential of students. >>>> >>>> Students today understand their task as being a good consumer; to get at least equal value from professors as they pay in tuition. (granted much of this is via a credential, but the professors are a big part of what stands behind the university's credential). You'll hear students frequently complain (rightly so) about how much they are paying for their education followed by some specific complaint about a professor. >>>> >>>> This is all part of a larger system in which this is understood as how the world works. You get what you pay for. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. And so on. Can we blame students for wanting to know what they are going to "get" for the money that they pay for college, and note that this gets even more intense during hard economic times, of which we are deep into right this moment (although the fear usually takes a semester or two before people start fleeing the humanities and the social sciences to business, engineering, computer science, or pre-anything). >>>> >>>> (and Lave and Mcdermott's article on Estranged Labor Learning might be worth revisiting in this regard?) >>>> >>>> In addition to Marx's commodity fetish, a related and interesting way to think of this is in terms of Marcel Mauss' notion of gift vs. exchange economy (if you'll allow me to oversimplify a bit). The main difference is that an exchange economy involves transactions that are always calculated to be of exactly equal value. The $13 pair of shoes I buy at the store are worth EXACTLY $13. Each party to the transaction gets their "money's worth". Sounds great right? Fair, to be sure. Except it means that there is no relationship established between the parties. After the exchange, the parties no longer have any meaningful relationship. In contrast, a gifting relationship is not responded in kind (at least not initially). As Mary Douglas says in her intro to Mauss' book The Gift, "there are no free gifts". Note that this is a very different statement from Milton Friedman's "there ain't no such thing as a free lunch". Douglas means that the gift creates a sense of obligation and thus a relationship. As much as we might understand this in intimate spaces, as Americans in public spaces all we know are exchange relationships (people reject healthcare for all b.c. "why should I have to pay for healthcare for someone else", ditto for education (yes, there is a movement in the US to get rid of public education!)). This is the logic behind the out-of-hand rejection of socialism - it does not make sense in the logic of exchange. And, of course, taxes are justified only in as much as you "get" something for it (roads, police, fire department, public transport, etc.) and increasingly tax dollars are getting hyper-localized so that you get precisely what you pay for and don't pay a dime more (e.g., gated communities with private police force, fire dept, etc). >>>> >>>> Interestingly I just today was privilege to hear a colleague present about his work in Papua New Guinea (the island of Missima, in the Massim region - the site of the Kula ring made famous to Westerners by Malinowski - and yes, the Kula ring still operates today). He noted that Missimans can't understand why Americans (and other Westerners) are so interested in engaging in exchanges that cut ties (e.g., buying things from them and then running off). And when Missimans do try to engage in gifting relationships with Americans, they are struck by how quickly the Americans run off, never to return (what idiots those Americans are!). It is absolutely baffling to them since they spend their days building relationships with others. Why would someone not want relationships with others? >>>> >>>> Can we perhaps understand their bafflement? >>>> >>>> And what, then, is human development within a world where relations of exchange are everything? (and thankfully, it isn't total, we Americans still view kin relations as something more than an exchange relation). >>>> >>>> Anyway, that's at least two times two cents too much. And terribly inchoate. Far too "off the cuff". Apologies. >>>> >>>> -greg >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 11:19 AM Helena Worthen > wrote: >>>> thanks! >>>> >>>> Helena Worthen >>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Apr 27, 2020, at 7:48 PM, Andy Blunden > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> How about this Helena?: >>>>> "Time is the room of human development. A man who has no free time to dispose of, whose whole lifetime, apart from the mere physical interruptions by sleep, meals, and so forth, is absorbed by his labour for the capitalist, is less than a beast of burden. He is a mere machine for producing Foreign Wealth, broken in body and brutalized in mind. Yet the whole history of modern industry shows that capital, if not checked, will recklessly and ruthlessly work to cast down the whole working class to this utmost state of degradation." >>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1865/value-price-profit/ch03.htm__;!!Mih3wA!V6-_gtGrgEDNoL4XusVOHfgDTNHqfzGzIouyPM_cRcPa1lwyPNxJ-UbEHdqN5a-L4q_pIg$ >>>>> Andy Blunden >>>>> Hegel for Social Movements >>>>> Home Page >>>>> On 28/04/2020 5:23 am, Helena Worthen wrote: >>>>>> Andy?s paper has basically 4 parts. One a flyby overview of the history of the US ? this is where the majority of criticisms by people I know are showing up because people have different versions of that history. Then the argument that with the US going down as one of the poles of global leadership. My friends and family agree with this and are all, as Americans, offering examples of how they have experienced this. Andy notes that there is an empty spot at the top that hasn?t been taken yet. Then comes his COVID-19 point, that this is a global moment in which the whole world is participating. Most of the xmca discussion has been about that so far, if I?m not mistaken. And finally a challenge to foresee what we will learn from this experience. >>>>>> >>>>>> OK, now trying to forsee what we can learn is what I?m doing. So here is my question, appropriate for this list since we are all interested in education. I found myself writing the following, as part of describing the way a workforce can be intentionally divided into feuding packs of enemies so that we can?t take action in solidarity. We?re referring to ?the distortions of human development under capitalism? and say that ?we see this in its sharpest form in the for-profit part of the higher education industry. We have to look past the distortion to find the original, human connection?.? >>>>>> >>>>>> One of our readers asks where this concept came from. I don?t remember!! It makes sense, though, doesn?t? Anyone have any idea where it came from? So far I?m saying, >>>>>> >>>>>> The concept of ?distortions of human development under capitalism? depends on looking at human development as occurring within a social, historical and cultural framework ? not just the development of individuals on their own or within a family or even a school, but within a society. Specifically we mean psychological and cognitive disabilities ranging from lack of empathy, envy, despair, alienation and bullying to obesity, eating disorders and stress-related auto-immune illness. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks ? H >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Helena Worthen >>>>>> h elenaworthen@gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Apr 27, 2020, at 9:29 AM, Helena Worthen > wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have been circulating Andy?s paper among close friends and family to generate discussion. What is mostly coming back is confirmation of the general arc, with examples from personal experience, but some disagreement about cause. These are ?inside? views ? meaning, people who are US citizens talking about us, so these are experiences of the passing of an era and what they look like from inside. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> About a year ago I realized that, for better or worse, I identify as ?an American.? And I don?t mean North American. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Chris Appy?s book, American Reckoning, is a pretty good history that takes us from the 1940s up to Obama and tracks the hole we fell into with the Vietnam War. For people of my generation (BA 1965 ? and I mention that date rather than when I was born because 1965 connects to the draft, the lottery, the anti-war demonstrations, the asssinations, etc etc) the story told with the Vietnam War in the foreground connects very tightly to lived experience. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Helena Worthen >>>>>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Apr 22, 2020, at 4:30 AM, Andy Blunden > wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/American-Century.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!V6-_gtGrgEDNoL4XusVOHfgDTNHqfzGzIouyPM_cRcPa1lwyPNxJ-UbEHdqN5a_9ZnQB8g$ [ethicalpolitics.org] >>>>>>>> Andy >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Andy Blunden >>>>>>>> Hegel for Social Movements [brill.com] >>>>>>>> Home Page [ethicalpolitics.org] >>>>>> >>>> >>> >> > > > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!V6-_gtGrgEDNoL4XusVOHfgDTNHqfzGzIouyPM_cRcPa1lwyPNxJ-UbEHdqN5a8JKe08DQ$ > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!V6-_gtGrgEDNoL4XusVOHfgDTNHqfzGzIouyPM_cRcPa1lwyPNxJ-UbEHdqN5a8j2fog1Q$ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200430/fd8c9ba0/attachment.html