[Xmca-l] Re: Do we find Inequalities in wild life system?

Andy Blunden andyb@marxists.org
Tue Jan 29 19:12:48 PST 2019


It is succeeding in shifting vast amounts of wealth into the 
pockets of an incredibly small minority world-wide (For whom 
the bell tolls?), but it has lost the *consensus* which 
enabled it to be a *hegemonic *ideology and social policy. 
Obviously, Vietnam is not in the same place. Every country 
is having different crises, but I was referencing the crisis 
affecting capital on a world scale. It is manifested 
differently from country-to-country.

andy

------------------------------------------------------------
Andy Blunden
http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
On 30/01/2019 2:01 pm, Helena Worthen wrote:
> So what does “no longer working” refer to?
>
> In Vietnam, it’s mass wildcat strikes that make investors 
> wary on the one hand and on the other pushes the 
> government to re-think their labor code to encourage 
> collective bargaining.
>
> In the US, one of the issues for the LA teachers was 
> privatization of public schools (charter schools).The 
> outcome of the strike was an agreement that the District 
> would support legislation at the state level to put a cap 
> on charter schools.
>
> Step by step.
>
> H
>
> Helena Worthen
> helenaworthen@gmail.com <mailto:helenaworthen@gmail.com>
>
>
>
>> On Jan 30, 2019, at 9:30 AM, Andy Blunden 
>> <andyb@marxists.org <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>> wrote:
>>
>> The theory I most favour is that the most recent, but 
>> also former, ideologies of capitalist rule have 
>> objectively lost their efficacy. The neo-liberal ideology 
>> (putting all social functions in the market place) is no 
>> longer working. This creates a crisis in all the parties 
>> which have relied on this strategy. It will also affect 
>> the centre-left, but in the Anglosphere, at this point, 
>> they are having an easier time, promoting a little bit of 
>> Keynesianism.
>>
>> Andy
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> Andy Blunden
>> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
>> On 30/01/2019 1:16 pm, Martin Packer wrote:
>>> As far as I can tell — based I confess only on reading 
>>> New York Times articles — something similar is happening 
>>> in the US. And in the UK the Conservative party is 
>>> fracturing.
>>>
>>> If one wanted to try to bring about these kinds of 
>>> change one wouldn’t know where to start, would one? Or 
>>> is it just me, unable to figure out where the levers of 
>>> change are hidden?
>>>
>>> Martin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Jan 29, 2019, at 8:32 PM, Andy Blunden 
>>>> <andyb@marxists.org <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Fortunately, we have an election in May, and since the 
>>>> government has already lost their majority, they can't 
>>>> do too much damage, just paralysis. It's an "unreal" 
>>>> government.
>>>>
>>>> The interesting phenomenon is that in country 
>>>> electorates and in wealthy "leafy" suburban seats, 
>>>> where respectively the National Party and Liberal Party 
>>>> (both right-wing parties) have held impregnable 
>>>> majorities since time immemorial, Independent 
>>>> candidates are popping up to challenge them and in 
>>>> several cases recently (in State elections and in 
>>>> Federal by-elections) they have toppled them. The 
>>>> extreme right is also fragmenting. It used to be a joke 
>>>> about Trotskyists and Maoists, but nowadays it seems 
>>>> you can't have two right-wingers in the same room 
>>>> without a faction fight and a split. So the political 
>>>> landscape is changing rapidly, and to the better here.
>>>>
>>>> Andy
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Andy Blunden
>>>> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
>>>> On 30/01/2019 12:24 pm, Martin Packer wrote:
>>>>> That’s odd!  In contrast, the British government is 
>>>>> handling Brexit in such a rational and mature manner!
>>>>>
>>>>> Martin
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 29, 2019, at 7:56 PM, Andy Blunden 
>>>>>> <andyb@marxists.org <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> as Mike says, we notice them when there's a 
>>>>>> "perturbation"!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> December was the hottest month ever here in 
>>>>>> Australia, but the current Australian government is 
>>>>>> still promoting coal, so what does that tell us?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Andy
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Andy Blunden
>>>>>> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
>>>>>> On 30/01/2019 11:50 am, Martin Packer wrote:
>>>>>>> Yes, it struck me after hitting send that of course 
>>>>>>> Taylor also wrote a huge book (and then a little 
>>>>>>> one) on Hegel.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sounds like Paul Redding has been talking to your 
>>>>>>> spellchecker.  :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The power of mediators, and what makes them easy to 
>>>>>>> forget, is that they become invisible in action. 
>>>>>>> Language seems like a window on another person’s 
>>>>>>> consciousness; the plough is simply handy when the 
>>>>>>> soil needs turning. The government is just those 
>>>>>>> idiots in Washington (or Canberra?)… When we notice 
>>>>>>> the myriad of mediators, they seem like simple links 
>>>>>>> between us and whatever we’re interacting with, when 
>>>>>>> in fact neither would exist without them. Without 
>>>>>>> language, ploughs, and governments life would be 
>>>>>>> brutish and short.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Martin
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jan 29, 2019, at 7:24 PM, Andy Blunden 
>>>>>>>> <andyb@marxists.org <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm sure you're right, Martin. We are after all 
>>>>>>>> both defending the same view.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Intersubjectivity" is a slippery and changing 
>>>>>>>> word. I thought it was Karl Popper who introduced 
>>>>>>>> the word in his 1945 "Open Society," but his 
>>>>>>>> meaning has been supplanted by others much later. I 
>>>>>>>> think he used the term to mean something "in 
>>>>>>>> between" objective truth (things fall when you drop 
>>>>>>>> them) and subjective truth (heights are scary), 
>>>>>>>> which is culturally produced (falling is due to 
>>>>>>>> gravity, acrophobia is a panic disorder).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There was a whole movement of Hegel interpreters 
>>>>>>>> who began to use "intersubjectivity" as a means of 
>>>>>>>> "operationalising" a "nonmetaphysical reading" of 
>>>>>>>> Hegel, in the 1980s I think, and 1990s. Charles 
>>>>>>>> Taylor was ahead of that curve, I would agree, but 
>>>>>>>> I don't think he took the spirit-is-human-activity 
>>>>>>>> reading down to the detailed level that this later 
>>>>>>>> intersubjective reading did. I agree with Charles 
>>>>>>>> Taylor - his work was pioneering.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't know about this view of intersubjectivity 
>>>>>>>> as a "merging of subjectivities" unless we mean 
>>>>>>>> some New Age kind of thing, or crowd behaviour, 
>>>>>>>> etc. (BTW, my spellchecker keeps telling me there's 
>>>>>>>> no such word as "intersubjectivity.")
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I had a long and fruitless email conversation with 
>>>>>>>> Paul Redding (usually recognised as the "senior" 
>>>>>>>> Australian Hegelian) on the question of how he 
>>>>>>>> understood me telling him "It's raining here" (he's 
>>>>>>>> in Sydney). I wanted him to see that our 
>>>>>>>> interaction was *mediated* by 2 computers and the 
>>>>>>>> internet and by the English language, but he 
>>>>>>>> utterly rejected this, insisting that the only 
>>>>>>>> sense in which our communication of mediated was 
>>>>>>>> that in Sydney as well as in Melbourne, it rains, 
>>>>>>>> and so we both had experience of rain. We never got 
>>>>>>>> past that point. The concept of artefact-mediation 
>>>>>>>> was utterly impenetrable for him. He's a supporter 
>>>>>>>> of Robert Brandom, BTW.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Andy
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> Andy Blunden
>>>>>>>> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
>>>>>>>> On 30/01/2019 10:55 am, Martin Packer wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I feel we’re still talking past each other, Andy. 
>>>>>>>>> You seem to be attributing to me the view that I 
>>>>>>>>> am attributing to James, and questioning: namely 
>>>>>>>>> that ‘intersubjectivity’ is two (or more) 
>>>>>>>>> subjectivities somehow meeting in interaction.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am trying to argue that to talk only of subjects 
>>>>>>>>> and objects, or only of subjectivity and 
>>>>>>>>> objectivity, will never be sufficient, because it 
>>>>>>>>> neglects a third phenomenon which is primary: the 
>>>>>>>>> shared, public practices (involving artifacts) in 
>>>>>>>>> which people are always involved, and into which 
>>>>>>>>> they are born. I think you hold the same opinion!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> One reason for the confusion is a terminological 
>>>>>>>>> one. Some of us here are using ‘intersubjectivity’ 
>>>>>>>>> to refer to some kind of fusing of subjectivities. 
>>>>>>>>> That is a real phenomenon, I concur. I still 
>>>>>>>>> remember many years ago finding the perfect 
>>>>>>>>> partner for mixed badminton: it was though we 
>>>>>>>>> played as one! And also those rare occasions 
>>>>>>>>> dancing salsa with the right partner.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But I want to use the term ‘intersubjectivity’ the 
>>>>>>>>> way Charles Taylor used it in his article 
>>>>>>>>> "Interpretation and The Sciences of Man" (1971). 
>>>>>>>>> (Taylor is not the last word on the phenomena of 
>>>>>>>>> intersubjectivity, but he was one of the first.) 
>>>>>>>>> Taylor wanted to draw to our attention “the social 
>>>>>>>>> matrix in which individuals find themselves and 
>>>>>>>>> act,” “the background to social action,” 
>>>>>>>>> including “a common language” which “is 
>>>>>>>>> constitutive of… institutions and practices.” He 
>>>>>>>>> insisted that it is not simply consensus among 
>>>>>>>>> individuals.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But I don’t feel dogmatic about the terminology. 
>>>>>>>>> We could call them intersujectivity-1 and 
>>>>>>>>> intersubjectivity-2. Or find a new word for what 
>>>>>>>>> Taylor was talking about. What’s important is the 
>>>>>>>>> observation that there are phenomena that cannot 
>>>>>>>>> be reduced to subjects and objects.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Obviously these practices and institutions will 
>>>>>>>>> involve material artifacts; they couldn’t function 
>>>>>>>>> otherwise. But these artifacts will be defined 
>>>>>>>>> within the practices. The fact that the US 
>>>>>>>>> government cannot get rid of guns is not due to 
>>>>>>>>> their number, it is due to the fact that the 
>>>>>>>>> *right* to own a gun is (on one interpretation) 
>>>>>>>>> defined by the texts and practices of government 
>>>>>>>>> as one that cannot be legally infringed. The 
>>>>>>>>> government is perfectly within *its* rights to 
>>>>>>>>> destroy a gun that has no owner. I would want, 
>>>>>>>>> then, to avoid trying to draw a distinction 
>>>>>>>>> between an artifact and its meaning: what *counts 
>>>>>>>>> as* a gun is (again) a legal matter, not something 
>>>>>>>>> that individuals negotiate.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Martin
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 29, 2019, at 5:26 PM, Andy Blunden 
>>>>>>>>>> <andyb@marxists.org <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>> 
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Martin, I distinguish between intersubjectivity 
>>>>>>>>>> and the CHAT standpoint because the literature I 
>>>>>>>>>> have seen which tries to build a social theory on 
>>>>>>>>>> the basis of subject-subject interactions, 
>>>>>>>>>> ignores the artefacts being used, and in 
>>>>>>>>>> particular, the pre-existence of these artefacts 
>>>>>>>>>> relative to the interactions, and their 
>>>>>>>>>> materiality. (I admit that I have come to this 
>>>>>>>>>> conclusion from my study of Hegel 
>>>>>>>>>> interpretations, which is a limited domain. But I 
>>>>>>>>>> do also see it in strands of social theory as 
>>>>>>>>>> such.) This is achieved by either subsuming the 
>>>>>>>>>> mediating artefact into the subject itself (e.g. 
>>>>>>>>>> my voice is a part of me, the subject, as is my 
>>>>>>>>>> hand) or taking the mediator as the object rather 
>>>>>>>>>> than a means. Such interpretations fail to 
>>>>>>>>>> explain why today can be any different from 
>>>>>>>>>> yesterday, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We cold say that mediated interactions are still 
>>>>>>>>>> intersubjective, we just use things for our 
>>>>>>>>>> interactions with other subjects, but I see CHAT 
>>>>>>>>>> as a further really existing step beyond the step 
>>>>>>>>>> which the intersubjective turn made relative to 
>>>>>>>>>> methodological individualism and abstract social 
>>>>>>>>>> theory.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ontologically, the distinction is this: the 
>>>>>>>>>> /meaning /of an artefact is established 
>>>>>>>>>> intersubjectively, so to speak, but /the artefact 
>>>>>>>>>> itself/ is still material and objective, and this 
>>>>>>>>>> constrains the meanings which can be attached to 
>>>>>>>>>> it. For example, the sheer existence of 400 
>>>>>>>>>> million guns in the USA is a social problem over 
>>>>>>>>>> and above the place of guns in the thinking and 
>>>>>>>>>> behaviour of so many Americans. A government 
>>>>>>>>>> simply cannot get rid of them. For example, the 
>>>>>>>>>> propensity of people in some countries to suffer 
>>>>>>>>>> in natural disasters is not just due to the poor 
>>>>>>>>>> preparedness of their people and governments, but 
>>>>>>>>>> the objective vulnerability of people due to the 
>>>>>>>>>> state of infrastructure. There is a limit on how 
>>>>>>>>>> good your education system will be if you have no 
>>>>>>>>>> teachers, no books and no schools. Of course the 
>>>>>>>>>> simple objective existence of the relevant things 
>>>>>>>>>> is not the whole business, but it is something 
>>>>>>>>>> else. And the /nature/ of the constellation of 
>>>>>>>>>> existing artefacts is something else, over and 
>>>>>>>>>> above their existence. EG all the school books 
>>>>>>>>>> are written in a foreign language, etc. The 
>>>>>>>>>> material artefacts is a product of past history, 
>>>>>>>>>> you could say, which was intersubjective, but 
>>>>>>>>>> intersubjectivity ends as soon as the interaction 
>>>>>>>>>> ends, but the artefact often lives on.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I think CHAT has something important to 
>>>>>>>>>> contribute here.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Andy
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>> Andy Blunden
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
>>>>>>>>>> On 30/01/2019 2:17 am, Martin Packer wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Well, I was going to add that culture would be 
>>>>>>>>>>> generally considered an intersubjective 
>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon, rather than subjective or objective. 
>>>>>>>>>>> So it could be said that what this discussion 
>>>>>>>>>>> group is about — the C in XMCA — is 
>>>>>>>>>>> intersubjectivity.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Should intersubjectivity be transcended? I 
>>>>>>>>>>> think, Andy, that you may be reading the word as 
>>>>>>>>>>> some kind of merging or sharing of 
>>>>>>>>>>> subjectivities. Which is indeed how the word has 
>>>>>>>>>>> been used here not long ago. But Charles Taylor, 
>>>>>>>>>>> for example, defined intersubjectivity as 
>>>>>>>>>>> meanings and norms that exist in practices, not 
>>>>>>>>>>> in individuals' minds. The materiality of 
>>>>>>>>>>> culture — material artefacts — seems to me to be 
>>>>>>>>>>> a very good example of this.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Martin
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 29, 2019, at 9:51 AM, Andy Blunden 
>>>>>>>>>>>> <andyb@marxists.org 
>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It's my view, Martin, that in making actions, 
>>>>>>>>>>>> including intersubjective 
>>>>>>>>>>>> actions,/essentially/artefact-mediated, 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Vygotsky transcended "intersubjectivity." His 
>>>>>>>>>>>> citing of Marx citing Hegel on the "cunning of 
>>>>>>>>>>>> reason" is no accident.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hegel has what he calls (in typical Hegel 
>>>>>>>>>>>> style) the "syllogism of action." This is the 
>>>>>>>>>>>> culminating concept of the Logic making the 
>>>>>>>>>>>> transition to the Absolute Idea and Nature. 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hegel points out, and Marx picks up on this, 
>>>>>>>>>>>> that this means that every action is mediated 
>>>>>>>>>>>> by material culture. Hegel says "the plough is 
>>>>>>>>>>>> more honourable than anything produced by its 
>>>>>>>>>>>> means." For Marx, this is about the importance 
>>>>>>>>>>>> of ownership of the means of production. For 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Vygotsky, it is what makes Cultural Psychology 
>>>>>>>>>>>> what it is.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Emphasising the culture in the middle in no way 
>>>>>>>>>>>> minimises the constructive role of language 
>>>>>>>>>>>> use, but it means that the language itself 
>>>>>>>>>>>> plays, maybe. the more "honourable" role. :)
>>>>>>>>>>>> andy
>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>> Andy Blunden
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 30/01/2019 1:41 am, Martin Packer wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> There was a general recognition in the social 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sciences (including philosophy) some time ago 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that it is crucial to recognize the existence 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and importance of “intersubjective” phenomena. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Language, for example, is not subjective, it 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is intersubjective. As Andy notes, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> subjectivity and even objectivity (think 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Latour’s analysis of science in Laboratory 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Life) arise from and are dependent upon 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> intersubjective phenomena.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Martin
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 29, 2019, at 12:15 AM, Andy Blunden 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <andyb@marxists.org 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When you get the electric chair for murdering 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone that is not a linguistic construct.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> andy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Andy Blunden
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 29/01/2019 2:49 pm, Adam Poole (16517826) 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps it may be more appropriate to use 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the term 'quasi-objective form', as the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> medium through which concepts like 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> inequality and injustice are made objective, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> language, is itself inherently subjective. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For example, justice can be given objective 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> form in law, but the law itself is comprised 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of language, customs, traditions, beliefs, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc. The manifestation of an objective form 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is not universal, but will differ depending 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on cultural context. Hence quasi-objective. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Concepts like inequality are given objective 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> form, but it doesn't mean that they are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> objective in nature, due to the mediating 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> role of language.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adam
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *From:*xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu<xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>on 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> behalf of Andy Blunden<andyb@marxists.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Sent:*29 January 2019 08:16:35
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *To:*xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Subject:*[Xmca-l] Re: Do we find 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Inequalities in wild life system?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mmm, "subjective" is a polysemous word, Huw. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is not a matter of precision but of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> relativity. "Inequality" is a famously 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contested concept, as is "injustice," but 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its contestation is necessarily in a social 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> context and with social content. Justice and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> equality are given objective form in law and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> social policy in definite, really-existing 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> states or organisations challenging for 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> state power, not the opinion of individuals.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> andy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Andy Blunden
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 29/01/2019 1:50 am, Huw Lloyd wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It isn't "subjective", Andy. Rather it is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> limited to a certain construal. One can be 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quite precise and objective about that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> construal.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Huw
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 at 14:14, Andy Blunden 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <andyb@marxists.org 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     I can't agree that with your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     suggestion, Huw, that inequality (in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     the meaning with which Harshad used it)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     is something subjective, in the eye of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     the beholder. Such a view would be very
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     pernicious politically. The fact is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     that states have emerged and developed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     over many centuries so as to makes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     objective certain concepts of justice,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     among which are various qualified and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     nuances notions of equality. This is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     not figment of my imagination.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     andy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     Andy Blunden
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     On 29/01/2019 12:59 am, Huw Lloyd wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     We find "wild life" systems that are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     imbalanced and subject to radical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     changes.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     Inequality is a perceptual/cognitive
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     construct and predicated on an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     ontological scope. We find the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     condition of inequality (or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     comparison) in our thinking and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     behaviour. Every living thing "finds"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     inequalities. We do not find
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     inequality, we find the awareness of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     inequality.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 at 08:17, James Ma
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     <jamesma320@gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     <mailto:jamesma320@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>         Should you find inequality within
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>         a wildlife system, that must be a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>         political, ideological precept!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>         James
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>         On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 at 07:56,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>         James Ma <jamesma320@gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>         <mailto:jamesma320@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>             Not only is it meaningless but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>             also preposterous. To maintain
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>             that all members of the same
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>             species are equal, as Anne
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>             Moir and David Jessel put it,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>             is to "build a society based
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>             on a biological and scientific
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>             lie".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>             James
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>             PS: I'm apolitical - anything
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>             political, ideological just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>             doesn't speak to me!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>             */_______________________________________________________/*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>             /*James Ma *Independent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>             Scholar//https://oxford.academia.edu/JamesMa
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>             /
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>             On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 at 05:27,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>             Andy Blunden
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>             <andyb@marxists.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>             <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>             wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 Harshad,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 "Inequality" is a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 meaningless concept when
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 referred to Nature.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 Likewise "Injustice."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 Justice and equality are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 relevant only to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 extent that the subjects
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 are living in an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 'artificial' world, out of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 Nature. Natural disasters
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 and the plenitude of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 Nature have these
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 dimensions only to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 extent they are imposed on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 or made available to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 different classes of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 people by the social system.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 Hope that helps.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 Andy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 Andy Blunden
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 On 28/01/2019 4:00 pm,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 Harshad Dave wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 I am working on one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 article. I want to know
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 your views on following
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 query.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 "Do we find Inequalities
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 exists in wild life system?"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 Your views will help me
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 in my work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 Harshad Dave
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 Email:hhdave15@gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 <mailto:hhdave15@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This message and any attachment are intended 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> solely for the addressee and may contain 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential information. If you have 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> received this message in error, please send 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it back to me, and immediately delete it. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please do not use, copy or disclose the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information contained in this message or in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any attachment. Any views or opinions 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> expressed by the author of this email do not 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> necessarily reflect the views of The 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> University of Nottingham Ningbo China. This 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> message has been checked for viruses but the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contents of an attachment may still contain 
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The University of Nottingham Ningbo China 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> may be monitored as permitted by UK and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chinese legislation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Martin
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> /"I may say that whenever I meet Mrs. Seligman 
>>>>>>>>>>> or Dr. Lowie or discuss matters with 
>>>>>>>>>>> Radcliffe-Brown or Kroeber, I become 
>>>>>>>>>>> at once aware that my partner does not 
>>>>>>>>>>> understand anything in the matter, and I end 
>>>>>>>>>>> usually with the feeling that this also applies 
>>>>>>>>>>> to myself” (Malinowski, 1930)/
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>
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