[Xmca-l] Re: Passions, (Projects?) and Interests

[James Ma]

It has to be abstractions, Andy. Human understanding is by nature
abstraction from experience. James


On Sat, 12 Jan 2019 at 10:20, Andy Blunden <andyb@marxists.org> wrote:

> So we have axiological, ontological, epistemological and motivational
> angles to line up. Amazing people ever get to do anything by the time they
> figure that all out. :)
>
> How would you go about conceiving of human life holistically, rather than
> a sum of all these abstractions?
>
> Andy
> ------------------------------
> Andy Blunden
> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
> On 12/01/2019 8:58 pm, James Ma wrote:
>
> Hi Huw, I agree with you very much. What's behind one's interest is by all
> means an ontological and epistemological stance as a driving force to deal
> with what there is to appeal to one and how one might go about pursuing it.
> Above all, one has an axiological positioning that is meshed with his/her
> ontological and epistemological stance.
> James
>
> On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 at 13:58, Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> For Vygotsky, interests are intentions.  Although he recognises that
>> Lewin's structural theory is inadequate with regard to discerning the
>> essence of interests, his own writings in that chapter focus upon
>> developmental patterns of interests, and he does not get around to being
>> explicit about what is behind interest -- what is really driving it. To a
>> certain extent this is answered with the social situation of development,
>> but unless one reads between the lines there is a great deal of vagueness,
>> such as with reference to psychological functions.
>>
>> I have a rather large theoretical paper I am completing on this to
>> compliment some empirical work. What I state is that it is epistemology
>> (and ontology) that is the interest behind interest.
>>
>> Best,
>> Huw
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 at 12:08, Moises Esteban-Guitart <
>> moises.esteban@udg.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> That's an interesting question that I asked myself when I read
>>> EDUCATIONAL
>>> PSYCHOLOGY by Vygotsky "from one interest of the child’s to a new
>>> interest
>>> —that is the rule” (Vygotsky, 1926/1997a, p. 86). My conclusion was that
>>> it depends on the biographical moment (see pp. 393 to 396 document
>>> attached). By the way, in his "Educational Psychology" he wrote on sex
>>> too
>>> ("Education on the sex instinct", pp. 71-77), however I didn't explore
>>> this.
>>> m
>>>
>>> > David,
>>> >
>>> > I would imagine the reference to interest relates to the STUDENTS'
>>> > interest: meaning that whatever way it is approached it needs to be
>>> > introduced from and in relation to the students' current
>>> > knowledge/interest/developmental stage as opposed to being imposed in a
>>> > decontextualised way.
>>> >
>>> > At least I think that's what's going on here...
>>> >
>>> > Julie
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> Sorry, Rob. I mean fifteen hours a year. The government has itinerant
>>> >> specialists who lecture from school to school. There is even a bus for
>>> >> visiting the provinces.
>>> >>
>>> >> In contrast, Vygotsky says:
>>> >>
>>> >> a) No class with ONLY sex education--since anatomical, sexual, and
>>> >> sociocultural maturation do not coincide in modern humans, sex
>>> education
>>> >> is
>>> >> not a science of a natural whole, where the object of study is given
>>> to
>>> >> us.
>>> >>
>>> >> b) No classes WITHOUT sex education--since sex education is simply
>>> >> learning
>>> >> how to be with people who may be of sexual interest, all classes must
>>> >> have
>>> >> some form of sexual "enlightenment".
>>> >>
>>> >> c) No sex education without INTEREST. But what, exactly, is interest?
>>> >>
>>> >> David Kellogg
>>> >> Sangmyung University
>>> >>
>>> >> New in *Language and Literature*, co-authored with Fang Li:
>>> >> Mountains in labour: Eliot’s ‘Atrocities’ and Woolf’s
>>> >> alternatives
>>> >> Show all authors
>>> >>
>>> >> https://doi.org/10.1177/0963947018805660
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Fri, Jan 11, 2019 at 5:40 PM robsub@ariadne.org.uk
>>> >> <robsub@ariadne.org.uk>
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> Fifteen hours a week???
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I hope it's not all practicals - the teachers would be exhausted.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> In the UK nowadays the very inadequate thing we do in schools is
>>> called
>>> >>> Sex and Relationship Education. The "and Relationship" bit was tacked
>>> >>> on
>>> >>> some time in the 90s or maybe early 2000s, if I recall rightly. They
>>> >>> missed
>>> >>> a trick there - they should have put it the other way round
>>> >>> "Relationship
>>> >>> and Sex Education". A very large lump of the population go into a
>>> >>> tabloid
>>> >>> induced panic as soon as they hear the word "sex", especially when
>>> >>> related
>>> >>> to children, and then fail to hear the "and relationship" it.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Rob
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On 11/01/2019 07:14, David Kellogg wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Last July in Geneva, I got into a bit of a tiff with my hosts over
>>> >>> whether
>>> >>> or not Vygotsky had a theory of emotion. The commonplace position,
>>> >>> taken
>>> >>> by
>>> >>> almost all high Vygotskyans including my francophone friends, is that
>>> >>> Vygotsky spent too much of his life developing a theory of thinking
>>> and
>>> >>> intellect, complexes and concept formation, and when he turned his
>>> >>> attention to the lower and higher emotions, that dark side of the
>>> moon,
>>> >>> it
>>> >>> was too late. He worked out a kind of prolegomena, in the form of
>>> >>> "Teaching
>>> >>> on the Emotions" (or "Study of the Emotions" or perhaps "The Doctrine
>>> >>> of
>>> >>> the Emotions"--you can read what he did in Volume 6 of the Collected
>>> >>> Works). And the rest was silence.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Here in Korea we are bringing out our tenth volume of Vygotsky's
>>> works
>>> >>> (see attached cover, with blurbs from Renee Van der Veer and Irina
>>> >>> Leopoldoff-Martin). It's all about sex education, which is a very
>>> >>> important
>>> >>> topic here in Korea, because we have fifteen hours of sex education a
>>> >>> week
>>> >>> mandated by the government, but the ministry of education has more or
>>> >>> less
>>> >>> withdrawn the downloadable materials for this, not for the usual
>>> >>> reasons
>>> >>> but instead because of criticism from Human Rights Watch (it is
>>> >>> terribly
>>> >>> sexist, homophobic, and just plain ignorant).
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Vygosky's view is that sex education (which he calls "sexual
>>> >>> enlightenment") has to be integrated into ALL subjects (so for
>>> example
>>> >>> the
>>> >>> test of a good sex enlightenment programme would be one that ensures
>>> >>> equal
>>> >>> participation of boys and girls in math and physics), it has to start
>>> >>> as
>>> >>> soon as preschoolers enter primary school, and it has to be
>>> >>> INTERESTING.
>>> >>> In
>>> >>> other words, instead of the "sex education without sex" programme we
>>> >>> have
>>> >>> here in South Korea, we need non-sex education...but with a good deal
>>> >>> of
>>> >>> sex.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> All of which has got me thinking about the problem my Geneva friends
>>> >>> set
>>> >>> before me. I think that Vygotsky really DOES have a theory that
>>> unites
>>> >>> passions and interests. It's like that book by Hirschmann on how the
>>> >>> unity
>>> >>> of passion and interest gave rise to capitalism, but instead it is
>>> all
>>> >>> about how passions, shared projects, and interests give rise to
>>> sexual
>>> >>> love, and it is more or less right before we would expect to find it:
>>> >>> in
>>> >>> the Pedology of the Adolescent, right before the chapter on concept
>>> >>> formation, which shows how complexes (which are categories for
>>> others)
>>> >>> become concepts (categories for themselves). This is the chapter on
>>> >>> interests, which explains how passions (which are sensations in
>>> >>> themselves)
>>> >>> become interests: that is, emotions for themselves. (There is
>>> already a
>>> >>> passable translation of this in Volume Five of the CW). The only
>>> thing
>>> >>> is
>>> >>> there is a need for a transitional form--a feeling with others.
>>> Andy's
>>> >>> idea
>>> >>> of the Project?
>>> >>>
>>> >>> David Kellogg
>>> >>> Sangmyung University
>>> >>>
>>> >>> New in *Language and Literature*, co-authored with Fang Li:
>>> >>> Mountains in labour: Eliot’s ‘Atrocities’ and Woolf’s
>>> >>> alternatives
>>> >>> Show all authors
>>> >>>
>>> >>> https://doi.org/10.1177/0963947018805660
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Dra. Julie Waddington
>>> > Departament de Didàctiques Específiques
>>> > Facultat d'Educació i Psicologia
>>> > Universitat de Girona
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Moisès Esteban Guitart
>>> Dpt de psicologia
>>> Director - Institut de Recerca Educativa -
>>> Facultat d'Educació i Psicologia
>>> Universitat de Girona
>>>
>>> Grup de recerca "Cultura i Educació" (GRC  2017SGR19)
>>> https://culturaieducacio.cat
>>>
>>> Responsable a la Universitat de Girona del Postgrau Interuniversitari en
>>> Psicologia de l'educació MIPE-DIPE http://mipe.psyed.edu.es/ca
>>
>>
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