[Xmca-l] Re: How do I unsubscribe from xmca?
MFH
erustenberg@yahoo.com
Thu Mar 15 13:49:26 PDT 2018
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 3/14/18, David Kellogg <dkellogg60@gmail.com> wrote:
Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools
To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
Date: Wednesday, March 14, 2018, 6:03 PM
I was ten years old on 15 October 1969,
during the first national
moratorium to end the Vietnam War, and
I was a leader of the school patrol
at my elementary school. Our job was
standing at intersections with red
plastic flags to stop the cars so that
the younger grades could cross
safely. The day before the Moratorium,
we marched up a nearby hill instead
of going to our first class so we could
hold a discussion over whether it
was right to strike on the Moratorium
Day, and thus endanger the lives of
the littler children. We decided to go
ahead with a strike and close down
the school the next day; I remember
leading a march (our plastic red flags
flying!) which included some little
'uns (second and third graders) to
Coffmann Union on the nearby University
of Minnesota campus where there
were tens of thousands of
protesting students. They greeted us with a roar
I never forgot.
My wife, curiously, had a similar
experience: she was an elementary school
leader of the movement to criticize Lin
Biao and Confucius in China and
made speeches at mass meetings all over
her hometown of Xi'an when she was
about seven years old. Yes, the
speeches were usually ones she copied from
People's Daily, with the help of a
friend of her mother's. But she was the
only one in her elementary school who
could read the speeches with an
intonation that suggested understanding
and did not have stage fright in
front of tens of thousands of adults.
As she says today, the newborn calf
does not fear a full grown tiger.
When we talk about our childhood
experiences of mass movements, what
strikes me is how utterly
pre-conceptal, complexive, and even syncretic we
both were: I imagined that the bombing
of elementary schools in Vietnam was
done to kill second and third graders;
my wife thought that Confucius was
still alive, and that's why we need to
criticize him (in fact, even Lin
Biao was already dead by then).
Similarly, it seems to me that a lot of
the thinking around guns in the
USA--and not just by kids--is
pre-conceptual. The latest shooting was
political--it was carried out by a
white nationalist who had trained in
the use of weapons with other white
nationalists. This isn't much
discussed.
It seems to me that the suggestion to
arm teachers (which is already being
done in many areas, but in a way that
only endangers teacher lives) offers
an affordance for a more sophisticated
and also more programmatic approach
than simply trying to turn Trump's
offhand comments into legislation. If
the teachers union had specially
trained armed defense guards, for example,
they could not only stop school
shooters, they might provide some limited
protection to black students in South
Chicago who are murdered by the
police on their way to and from school.
And of course armed union defense
guards would be absolutely consistent
with the "well regulated militia"
provision of the Second Amendment, and
with practices in countries like
Switzerland.
David Kellogg
Sangmyung University
Recent Article in *Early Years*
The question of questions: Hasan’s
critiques, Vygotsky’s crises, and the
child’s first interrogatives
<https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09575146.2018.1431874>
Free e-print available at:
https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full
On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 8:59 AM, Andy
Blunden <andyb@marxists.org>
wrote:
> During the anti-Vietnam War
movement there were certainly
> actions by school children. In
Australia, so I'm sure it
> would have happened in the US. But
in that case the
> schoolkids were joining what was
already a mass movement.
> The anti-gun movement obviously
exists in the US, among
> adults, but I get the impression
that in both the USD &
> Brazil, it is schoolkid initiated.
Obviously very many of
> the kids have the moral support
and encouragement of their
> own parents and many teachers and
principals. But that is
> not the same as actually setting
dates and places, informing
> relevant people, drafts up letters
and statements, etc., etc.
>
> Every protest in modern times
(20th century) happens thanks
> to the tireless work of a certain
social type called the
> Organiser. The Organiser maintains
a two-inch think address
> book, kept up to date by regular
calls relevant to a variety
> of campaigns and utilised in the
latest protest. The
> Organiser hardly ever sleeps, they
really *work* at it, and
> you receive multiple phone calls
reminding you when to be
> where and to bring this or that or
your friend along too.
> They also know their subject and
have mastered all the facts
> and rhetoric and pester all the
media.
>
> Whatever else it is, FaceBook
enables everyone to be an
> Organiser. The downside is that it
has made people lazy;
> poster runs, where a group of
activists run around the
> business areas at night sticking
up posters, have almost
> disappeared, as have the phone
trees which organised the
> Peace Movement. But we all know
the story of redundant skills
>
> Although I always resist
simplistic maxims like "the
> transformation of quantity into
quality" it really seems
> reasonable to me that social media
plus Trump plus yet
> another mass murder cheered on by
the NRA and their
> political representatives can, at
a certain point, exceed
> boiling point.
>
> I look forward with interest to
how it goes tomorrow. And
> how a new generation handles
themselves when they go out to
> work and vote.
>
> Andy
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
> Andy Blunden
>
ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
> On 14/03/2018 10:25 AM, Glassman,
Michael wrote:
> > Hello Fernando,
> >
> > What I find really
interesting is this phrase,
> >
> > "it was the first time in
Brazilian history that students (who were not
> supposed to interfere) interfered
in a political decision."
> >
> > Mike alluded to this in his
message as well about Parkland. I find it
> fascinating that the same type of
movement among the same age group is
> occurring simultaneously in the
U.S. and in Brazil. Yet I believe these
> students have no contact with each
other. And there is nobody teaching
> them. There are no experts.
They are learning in a way that challenges
> many of our belief systems about
learning (unless they are machines).
> >
> > Tomorrow is going to be a
very interesting day in the U.S. As part of
> the anti-gun movement students all
over the country are going to be walking
> out of school and staying out for
seventeen minutes. In some places
> schools will support this. In some
places it just won't happen. But I am
> growing more fearful of what
happens if there is a flashpoint between the
> schools and the students. I
wonder if some schools will try and chain the
> doors. I wonder if some
schools will lock the students out (this already
> happened at one school putting
students in danger). I wonder if police
> will decide to have a
presence. This will be the first time students (at
> least high schoolers) en masse
decided to challenge the authority of the
> state.
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
[mailto:xmca-l-bounces@
> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of
Fernando Cunha
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018
3:03 PM
> > To: eXtended Mind, Culture,
Activity <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>;
mike
> cole <mcole@ucsd.edu>
> > Cc: Lemos, Monica <monica.lemos@helsinki.fi>
> > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article
for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian
> schools
> >
> > Dear all,
> > I really appreciate the
discussion so far, and I liked the way some of
> you used some metaphors. It was
far from our intention to reinvent the
> wheel or to use flint stones to
light fire. What I think it is important is
> that there is no "if" in human
history, and we are where we are because we
> transform the places we live, as
well as the tools we use. We can for sure
> ride horses in the cities, but the
horses would sweat so much (considering
> the asphalt roads), that in a
matter of hours they would die.
> >
> > Since life is forward, we
tried to show in our article a small part of
> what the movements organized by
the students were.It is important to
> highlight, that despite people
that were not in favor of protests
> (including some students!), it was
the first time in Brazilian history that
> students (who were not supposed to
interfere) interfered in a political
> decision. And they did so not only
by using Facebook. As we mention in our
> paper, Facebook is one aspect of
the protests, and we considered it as a
> mediational communicative tool. As
I mentioned before in this answer, we as
> human beings use tools that are
available, reshape them, and sometimes use
> them for a purpose that is
completely different from the original idea.
> > I myself am a secondary
education teacher, and I am also a researcher
> because I am a secondary education
teacher. We may have different points of
> view when you research something
as an outsider, and when you participate
> (not as an ethnographer), but as a
subject of the group. In my humble
> opinion, we are still trying to
conceptualize (and stabilize) things that
> move faster than we can handle as
scientists, or to compare contexts that
> cannot be compared.
> >
> > I am looking forward to your
reactions.
> > Best regards,
> >
> >
> >
__________________________Fernando R. Cunha Júnior, PhD.
> >
> > http://fernandorcjr.wordpress.com
> >
> >
> > Em
segunda-feira, 12 de março de 2018 21:05:34 BRT, mike cole
<
> mcole@ucsd.edu>
escreveu:
> >
> > Alfredo et al
> >
> > I read this message before
reading the prior one. You are making the
> point I was trying to make
regarding discussion of the paper.
> > In our everyday lives we are
experiencing a change in the wind (to use a
> metaphor that Dylan made famous at
another such time).
> > HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS ARE
DISRUPTING THINGS AS USUAL for the first time
> in my life. Call it 65 years.
> >
> > And we are academics and some
of us are are paid to theorize such
> matters.
> > To theorize the social
organization of society was Hugh's description of
> the social sciences. In most
American Universities, Psychology (cap P) is
> located in the social sciences.
> > Do we approach the problem
from "below" as psychologists? Do we approach
> it from "above" as sociologists
and political scientists?
> > Can you link the Leontiev who
writes about the nature of human
> consciousness, psychologically
speaking and conducts experiments in the
> laboratory that look for all the
world like what goes on in my psychology
> department, AND as someone who can
help understand the growth of social
> movements? This may also be a way
to address and understanding of the
> overlap and variability in the
ideas of Vygotsky and Friere.
> >
> > Monica and Fernando must be
reeling from all the complicated English we
> are spewing. I look forward to the
discussion.
> >
> > Still worrying about Figure
3! I know I need to be able to interpret it
> but I am doing a lousy job.
> >
> > mike
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 5:34
AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil <a.j.gil@iped.uio.no
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Thanks for finding and
sharing the link, Andy, and thanks Michael and
> >> Mike for bringing the
absolutely relevant connection to Parklands.
> >>
> >> There was not so long ago
a discussion here as well as in a couple of
> >> articles in MCA about how
crises leading to development most often
> >> result from quantitative
increments that lead to qualitative leaps
> >> such that new forms of
organization emerge from previous ones. So,
> >> David, I don't see why
increments in the pace of circulation (e.g., of
> >> information) would not be
expected to bring with them changes in the
> >> organisation of the whole
economy system. I would not say that social
> >> media is just bringing a
lot more of the same, just as I would not a
> >> priori reject the
possibility that bringing a lot more of the same
> >> might not end up bringing
new qualitative forms of communicating. The
> >> observation that "like"
is intransitive in Facebook is interesting;
> >> but to me it needs to be
put in its larger context of use. And so, are
> >> we analysing Facebook as
a grammar closed up in itself, or as one more
> chain in a larger grammar of
possible cooperation?
> >>
> >> I am myself concerned
that Social Media like Facebook may be
> >> amplifying dichotomical
thinking beyond the innocuous and often
> >> way-to-verbose essays we
academics enjoy entertaining with much more
> >> complex verbal forms than
Facebook's intransitive "likes", only that
> >> the confrontations now
seem to be moving to family's dinner tables,
> >> quarrels among protesters
in public squares, or previously unheard of
> >> incarcerations for
publishing tweets and rap songs that critique the
> >> crown in a supposedly
modern democracy like Spain (e.g.:
> >> http://cadenaser.com/ser/2018/02/20/tribunales/1519135083_
> >> 106543.html). But the
article here discussed also shows that there are
> >> forms of organization
that these technologies are affording that may
> >> bring more positive
changes, like the case again in Spain of March 8th
> >> women's strike, the
extent of which no politician or journalist had
> >> anticipated and which led
the government to quickly adopt a much more
> >> equity-friendly discourse
than even the evening before
> >> (https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=4_11iIELdfc). So, no,
probably that
> >> one strike, or that one
social media that may have made it possible,
> >> won't change the system.
But they seem to incrementally add to
> something, don't they?
> >>
> >> Alfredo Jornet
> >>
________________________________
> >> New article in *Design
Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and
> >> intransitive dimensions"
> >> Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr
> >>
> >>
________________________________________
> >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> >> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
on behalf of Andy Blunden
> >> <andyb@marxists.org>
> >> Sent: 12 March 2018
06:39
> >> To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
> >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re:
Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian
> >> schools
> >>
> >> That headline does not
exist, but is it this:
> >>
> >> https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/07/us/parkland-students-social-media.h
> >> tml
> >>
> >> Andy
> >>
> >>
------------------------------------------------------------
> >> Andy Blunden
> >>
ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
> >> On 12/03/2018 4:02 PM,
mike cole wrote:
> >>> Michael - I have been
trying to find a digital copy of a story in
> >>> today's NY Times
titled "the social media warriors of parkland." For
> >>> some reason
> >> it
> >>> is not visible on the
digital version.... yet. Maybe someone out
> >>> there in
xmca-land can find it for us? I will check again in
the
> >>> morning to see if it
appears.
> >>>
It seems especially relevant to Monica and Fernando's
article,
> >>> and
> >> to
> >>> David's comment that
" it is very hard for me to pinpoint any
> >>> actual new form of
thinking or new form of speaking which was made
> >> possible by
> >>> Facebook." The
voices and forms of speaking used by the students
> >>> was
> >> not,
> >>> so far as I could
tell, the source of data. There are no quotations
> >>> of
> >> any
> >>> students speaking
differently. I assumed that this article was about
> >>> collective action.
> >>> Monica and Fernando -
I confess I had difficulty following parts of
> >>> the article, perhaps
because I am a very seldom user of Facebook. In
> >>> particular, I had
difficulty understanding Figure 3. Were the
> >>> people who started M1
also those who started M2-M3? ( " Once
> >>> students achieved the
object of the activity—in the first case, to
> >>> avoid the closure of
the schools—they focused the protests on another
> object").
> >>>
> >>> Did the M4 people get
the idea from M1 through a FB connection form M1?
> >> Did
> >>> you get any sense of
what distinguished pages that got a few hundred
> >> versus
> >>> 10,000 reactions?
> >>>
> >>> Harshad - Did you
think the article failed to consider social issues?
> >> There
> >>> is no information
about you on the xmca membership page, so it is
> >>> difficult to know
from what part of the world you are writing.
> >>> Unless I miss my
guess, some people will wonder at your use of the
> >>> word "man" where the
local practice might put "humankind" or some
> >>> other gender
inclusive term.
> >>>
> >>> David - Daylight
saving time tonight so I find myself "working
> >>> late." It got
me to wondering how many people live in Seoul. A lot,
> it turns out.
> >>> About 9-10 million.
That got me to wondering about how much faster
> >>> all those people
would be getting around on horses with all the
> >>> horse plops
> >> to
> >>> clamber over. And all
that hay to haul into town for the morning
> >>> rush hour. :-)
> >>>
> >>> mike
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018
at 8:25 PM, Glassman, Michael
> >>> <glassman.13@osu.edu>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Hi David,
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm sure those
meddling kids won't come back on your lawn any time
> soon.
> >>>>
> >>>> But really, the
article did not say Facebook is a new type of
> >> technology.
> >>>> I believe they
said that it's a form of human-technology
> >>>> interaction and
suggested perhaps social media was a new type of
> >>>> human-technology
interaction. I don't agree with this phrasing. I
> >>>> tend to think of
> >> Facebook
> >>>> more as an
application of Internet technology - but either way
> >>>> Facebook
> >> is
> >>>> just a form or an
application. Is the internetworking of computer,
> >>>> radio and
satellite communication an enormous step forward in how
> >>>> humans
communicate. I think so - it's really extraordinary on
a
> >>>> number of
> >> levels
> >>>> but that's really
not the conversation for this article.
> >>>>
> >>>> I do think the
authors have done an analysis that is interesting
> >>>> and possibly
important, especially when one considers what is
> >>>> currently
> >> going
> >>>> on down in
Parkland (some might be happy to know that, at least
> >>>> from
> >> what I
> >>>> have read,
Facebook isn't dominant or even that important for these
> >>>> students. Adults
have been using it more for larger organizational
> >> events
> >>>> like the March 14
walkout and the March 24 march). I have read
> >>>> some articles on
organizing on online forums (and actually wrote a
> >>>> not very
> >> good
> >>>> one a few years
back). Most of them are communications based an
> >>>> don't
> >> have
> >>>> strong
theoretical underpinning which is why I think this article
> >>>> might
> >> be
> >>>> an important step
forward.
> >>>>
> >>>> I think the idea
of using third generation activity theory might be
> >>>> a
> >> good
> >>>> idea for this
type of analysis. I myself have seen ties between the
> >>>> trialogical
approach being developed by Hakkareinan and Paavola and
> >> what is
> >>>> going on down in
Parkland. The students are creating their own
> >>>> projects
> >> and
> >>>> then getting the
larger community to buy in to and support what
> >>>> they are doing
which is in turn changing the quality of their
> >>>> activities. I
have
> >> my
> >>>> own ideas on why
this is suddenly happening and direct
> >>>> communication
technologies like Twitter and texting (which seem
> >>>> primary vehicles)
are only part of it.
> >>>>
> >>>> Anyway, this
particular article I think is really timely and should
> >>>> give us a lot to
think about.
> >>>>
> >>>> Michael
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original
Message-----
> >>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
[mailto:xmca-l-bounces@
> >>>> mailman.ucsd.edu]
On Behalf Of David Kellogg
> >>>> Sent: Sunday,
March 11, 2018 6:03 PM
> >>>> To: eXtended
Mind, Culture, Activity <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l]
Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian
> >> schools
> >>>> So in the
fifteenth century, Gutenberg exapted extant technology
> >>>> already widely
available in China and published a single text using
> >>>> moveable
> >> type
> >>>> which started a
profound intellectual, cultural, and social
> >>>> revolution whose
effects we still feel today: the rise of
> >>>> Protestantism,
the Counter-Reformation in, among other places,
> >>>> Brazil, the Wars
of
> >> Religion in
> >>>> France, the
vicissitudes of a multii-confessional (political) State
> >>>> and ultimately
those of a multi-confessional (psychological) state,
> >>>> In the twentieth
century, Ford similarly exapted extant technology,
> >>>> this time nearly
two millenia later than China, and mass-produced
> >>>> automobiles
> >> using
> >>>> Taylorism,
forcing everybody to buy an identical product with
> >>>> interchangeable
parts made by factories with interchangeable workers.
> >>>> The automobile
"revolution" did not even give us new roads, and in
> >>>> Seoul today
traffic moves notably slower than it would on
> >>>> horseback.
Clearly, there are some forms of technology that are
> >>>> actually
semiogenic--and
> >> others
> >>>> which merely
circulate capital at a faster rate and actually slow
> >>>> the movement of
people and new ideas.
> >>>>
> >>>> So my question is
very simple. How do we know that "Facebook"
> >>>> (which as the
name implies was originally designed to help Harvard
> >>>> freshmen decide
which classmates were sufficiently hot to "like")
> >>>> is really one of
the former technologies?.There are very clear
> >>>> signs , beyond
the obvious
> >> ones
> >>>> surrounding the
American origins, that it belongs to the latter
> >> category,
> >>>> and not a few of
them appear in this very article. First of all,
> >>>> the authors are
honest enough to associate Facebook with
> >>>> reactionary,
xenophobic, populist movements like the clowns who run
> the "Five Stars"
> >>>> movement in
Italy. Second, on the very first page, the authors try
> >>>> but
> >> do
> >>>> not really seem
to be able to distinguish between the "post first
> >>>> and organize
later" technologies of Occupy Wall Street and the use
> >>>> of social media
by the four movements in the article (including one
> >>>> actually
> >> called
> >>>> "Occupy
Everything"). And thirdly, it is very hard for me to
> >>>> pinpoint
> >> any
> >>>> actual new form
of thinking or new form of speaking which was made
> >> possible
> >>>> by Facebook. If
anything, Facebook seems to narrow semiogenic power
> >>>> to a single
consumer/computer menu. Ford said, you can get a Model
> >>>> A in any color
you like so long as it's black. Facebook tells us
> >>>> the same thing,
> >> but
> >>>> makes the verb
"like" intransitive.
> >>>>
> >>>> David Kellogg
> >>>> Sangmyung
University
> >>>>
> >>>> Recent Article in
*Early Years*
> >>>>
> >>>> The question of
questions: Hasan’s critiques, Vygotsky’s crises,
> >>>> and the child’s
first interrogatives <https://www.tandfonline.com/
> >>>>
doi/full/10.1080/09575146.2018.1431874>
> >>>>
> >>>> Free e-print
available at:
> >>>> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Sun, Mar 11,
2018 at 7:30 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil <
> >> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Dear
xmca'ers,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> it is (bit
over) due time for introducing the article for
> >>>>> discussion
from MCA's 2018 Issue 1, before Issue 2 comes upon us
> soon.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The selected
article, by Monica Ferreira Lemos and Fernando
> >>>>> Rezende da
Cunha Júnior, is about two topics that were thematised
> >>>>> in the last
ISCAR congress and that ought to be of much relevance
> >>>>> to current
and future CHAT-related research: Social media and
> >>>>> social
movements. In particular, the article examines how students
> >>>>> use social
media for the organization and development of 4 social
> movements in Brazil.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The article
is attached and is Free access during the discussion
> >> period.
> >>>>> It can be
accessed free in the following link:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2017.1379823
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The authors
have kindly agreed to participate in the discussion
> >>>>> and they will
be introducing themselves soon. I hope you will
> >>>>> find the
article interesting and please don't be shy to share
> >>>>> anything you
might have learned reading it, anything you might
> >>>>> wonder about
it or that you would like see discussed. Having
> >>>>> authors
engage in dialogue is a great opportunity that this
> >>>>> community
offers and that makes sense the most when many of you
> participate. Good reading!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Alfredo
Jornet
> >>>>>
> >>>>> New article
in *Design Studies* "Imagning Design: Transitive and
> >>>>> intransitive
dimensions"
> >>>>> Free print
available:
> >>>>> https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr
> >>>>>
> >>
> >
>
>
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