From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Thu Mar 1 01:24:53 2018 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2018 09:24:53 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In-Reply-To: <68f7b914-1cd6-fbb6-52c5-8eddb56479c1@marxists.org> References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> <1519598399026.36406@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AD5C72@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AEE329@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <1519887325986.67284@iped.uio.no>, <68f7b914-1cd6-fbb6-52c5-8eddb56479c1@marxists.org> Message-ID: <78D1F34E-8C0B-4551-BBFA-3156D99443F3@iped.uio.no> Andy, that?s a beautiful statement; and, if that which we together constitute and constitutes us is beyond our control (as the Marx quote Greg brought up states), it makes sense that communist society cannot as such be the goal, but the practice and duty of solidarity. Now, instituting solidarity as a practice in academia, that sounds like a challenging but powerfully driving task, right? Alfredo > On 1 Mar 2018, at 08:10, Andy Blunden wrote: > > In answer to your question, Alfredo, I think the point is > that "communism is not as such the goal of human development > ? the form of human society," but is essentially the > practice and duty of *solidarity*. To be a communist is to > act on the duty of solidarity to the best of one's ability. > The day when solidarity is universal, that is communism. > > Andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm >> On 1/03/2018 5:55 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: >> Absolutely Greg; fishing in the morning and criticising after dinner sounds really good to me! Marx's formulation seems totally relevant here, and his sounds like an ecological perspective too, but with subject, with content (where other formulations sound to me very useful, yet somehow content-less, abstract, I guess). But, where does a communist society begin? Or perhaps the question is, when does it begin? And what can current caught-up critical critics do to go fishing in the morning, apart from running races to secure steadily raising salaries in current society? Those well read Marxists could come handy here and give us a hand and help us getting started! >> Alfredo >> ________________________________________ >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Greg Thompson >> Sent: 01 March 2018 05:47 >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >> >> Michael G, >> Yes, I think you've really hit the nail on the head in pointing to the >> ecology within which academia sits. Apologies for being a gadfly here and >> simply pointing to a problem without pointing to a solution. >> >> How about we turn back to Marx?: >> >> "For as soon as the distribution of labour comes into being, each man has a >> particular, exclusive sphere of activity, which is forced upon him and from >> which he cannot escape. He is a hunter, a fisherman, a herdsman, or a >> critical critic, and must remain so if he does not want to lose his means >> of livelihood; while in communist society, where nobody has one exclusive >> sphere of activity but each can become accomplished in any branch he >> wishes, society regulates the general production and thus makes it possible >> for me to do one thing today and another tomorrow, to hunt in the morning, >> fish in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening, criticise after dinner, >> just as I have a mind, without ever becoming hunter, fisherman, herdsman or >> critic. This fixation of social activity, this consolidation of what we >> ourselves produce into an objective power above us, growing out of our >> control, thwarting our expectations, bringing to naught our calculations, >> is one of the chief factors in historical development up till now." >> >> In Marx's view, we can all be academics (i.e., "critical critics"). >> What do you think? >> -greg >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 8:26 PM, Glassman, Michael >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Greg, >>> >>> Here is my question. If we go to slow academics how do we determine on the >>> distribution of resources? If we give people a lot of time to conduct >>> their work who gets that time? >>> >>> I think the scarcity of academic resources is very much a corporate >>> phenomenon. There really should be enough resources for everybody to pursue >>> academics as they wish. >>> >>> The peer review system and the publish or perish ethos is deeply flawed >>> and causes a lot of research that shouldn't be done, let alone published. >>> But if not at least a semblance of a level playing field you get with blind >>> review then how do you decide who deserves the resources. Is it based on >>> connections, networks, who you know, where you went to school? Does >>> cultural capital become that much more important? Is this less democratic >>> or more democratic? >>> >>> To tell you the truth I don't know. The flaw is in the scarcity though, >>> not the system it seems to me. That we have allowed for a large academic >>> diaspora to emerge that is forced to teach for little money and no >>> benefits. Something we all allowed to happen. >>> >>> Michael >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >>> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Greg Thompson >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2018 9:10 PM >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>> >>> (oh, and I didn't mean to be exclusive in pointing to Michael's work, >>> there are many others on the list who would fit this description!) >>> >>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 7:08 PM, Greg Thompson >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Yes, Michael, totally agreed. And I see you as a rare exception to the >>>> production mill. Whereas you manage to prolifically produce important >>>> writings, much of what is published is, to my mind, written too >>>> hurriedly and lacks the quality and importance of publications like >>> yours. >>>> -greg >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 5:33 PM, Wolff-Michael Roth < >>>> wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Greg, not all people will think being publishing machines. Some, like >>>>> myself, enjoy spending many hours a day writing, analyzing etc. and >>>>> turning all of this into peer-reviewed articles. >>>>> >>>>> I referred to my earliest experience before, when I was told I would >>>>> not make tenure; and I felt I would not be able to make the 2 >>>>> articles or so per year in high quality journals. >>>>> >>>>> But after an absence from academia, it changed. I started doing >>>>> research for myself initially, and then wrote it up. From then on, it >>>>> was different, writing was something I wanted to do, and the more I >>>>> did, the better I got at it. (Not that the peer-review process would >>>>> have gotten easier.) >>>>> >>>>> I do admit, though, that the system as set up right now then tends to >>>>> reward people who publish more than others, and in "better" journals. >>>>> >>>>> And it depends on context. In the department that I am affiliated >>>>> with, there are people promoted and tenured without at least a >>>>> handful of articles in commonly recognized journals. And if you are >>>>> happy with an average increase in your salary, you don't have to get >>>>> stressed in our place either. >>>>> >>>>> Michael >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 4:04 PM, Greg Thompson >>>>> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I once toyed with the idea of "slow scholarship" and I remain >>>>>> entirely convinced that this is a virtue. But once I was entered >>>>>> into the competition/race of academia, it was all about how fast >>>>>> you can get to >>>>> the >>>>>> finish line (aka "publications"). >>>>>> >>>>>> Perhaps there is something good about this (assuming that it is >>>>>> better >>>>> to >>>>>> publish something than to not publish anything), but it also has >>>>>> the nefarious effect of turning scholars into cogs in publishing >>> factories. >>>>>> And, continuing in this cynical spirit, I might add that the >>>>>> Science article about "Slow" actually seems to be making the same >>>>>> case for >>>>> speed - >>>>>> maybe it isn't a sprint, but it is still a race and first one to >>>>>> the >>>>> finish >>>>>> line wins, so you better pick up the pace! Fast! >>>>>> >>>>>> And re: the man whispering in his ear as he runs: >>>>>> "We see how in this way the mode of production and the means of >>>>> production >>>>>> are continually transformed, revolutionised, *how the division of >>>>> labour is >>>>>> necessarily followed by greater divisions of labour, the >>>>>> application of machinery by still greater application of machinery, >>>>>> work on a large >>>>> scale >>>>>> by work on a still larger scale.* >>>>>> >>>>>> "That is the law which again and again throws bourgeois production >>>>>> out >>>>> of >>>>>> its old course and which compels capital to intensify the >>>>>> productive >>>>> forces >>>>>> of labour, *because *it has intensified them, it, the law which >>>>>> gives capital no rest and continually whispers in its ear: 'Go on! Go >>> on!'" >>>>>> (Marx - Wage Labour and Capital). >>>>>> >>>>>> -greg? >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 3:11 PM, Wolff-Michael Roth < >>>>>> wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> this article "In praise of slow" appears to be fitting the >>> discussion. >>>>>> The >>>>>>> author uses a nice analogy with running. Michael >>>>>>> http://science.sciencemag.org/content/359/6375/602 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 8:40 AM, Huw Lloyd >>>>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "Assessing their abilities and accomplishments in this regard >>>>>>>> was a >>>>>>> matter >>>>>>>> of judgment and so could not be quantified; it could be >>>>>>>> exercised >>>>> only >>>>>> by >>>>>>>> those capable of it." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I would say, "cannot be quantified simply". >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>> Huw >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 26 February 2018 at 15:05, Greg Thompson < >>>>> greg.a.thompson@gmail.com >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> And here is a nice article that speaks to the bureaucratic >>>>>>>>> logic >>>>>> that I >>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>> mentioning (the author refers to "the all-administrative >>>>>> institution"): >>>>>>>>> https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/whose-university-is-it- >>>>> anyway/#! >>>>>>>>> A quote from it: >>>>>>>>> "The revolution is over and the administrators have won. But >>>>>>>>> the persistence of traditional structures and language has >>>>>>>>> led some to >>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>> that the fight over the institution is now just beginning. >>>>>>>>> This >>>>> is a >>>>>>>>> mistake. As with most revolutions, open conflict occurs only >>>>>>>>> after >>>>>> real >>>>>>>>> power has already changed hands." >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -greg >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 6:27 PM, Martin Packer < >>>>> mpacker@cantab.net> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On STEM and social science: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> <>>>>>>>>> doctors-revolt-bernard-lown.html?action=click&pgtype= >>>>>>>>>> Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col- >>>>>>>>>> left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav= >>>>>>>>>> opinion-c-col-left-region >>>>>>>>> 02/24/opinion/sunday/doctors-revolt-bernard-lown.html? >>>>>>>>>> action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading& >>>>>>>>>> module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c-col- >>>>>>>>>> left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On measures of learning: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> - measure-learning-outcomes.html?action=click&pgtype= >>>>>>>>>> Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col- >>>>>>>>>> left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav= >>>>>>>>>> opinion-c-col-left-region >>>>>>>>> 02/23/opinion/sunday/colleges-measure-learning-outcomes. >>>>>>>>>> html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story- >>>>>>>>>> heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c- >>>>>>>>>> col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Martin >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 25, 2018, at 8:15 PM, Glassman, Michael < >>>>>>> glassman.13@osu.edu> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Huw, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps the opposite is also true though. STEM >>>>>>>>>>> researchers >>>>> can >>>>>>>> better >>>>>>>>>> understand what they are doing if they are well versed in >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>> social >>>>>>>>>> sciences. Understand the history and the meaning of what >>>>>>>>>> they >>>>> are >>>>>>> doing >>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>> they do not act as androids (sorry, been watching the >>>>>>>>>> Aliens >>>>>> trilogy >>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> late). Perhaps we made the wrong calculation. We have lost >>>>> control >>>>>> of >>>>>>>> our >>>>>>>>>> great STEM innovations because the people using them don't >>>>>> understand >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> social webs that they create. So we have people pushing >>>>>>>>>> xMOOCs >>>>>>>> (whatever >>>>>>>>>> happened to MOOCs anyway) as saving education (and also a >>>>> bundle so >>>>>>>>>> everybody gets tax cuts, wheeee!), saying that they are >>>>>>>>>> good >>>>>> because >>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>> can reach many, the proverbial long tail, with great >>>>>>>>>> education >>>>>>>> (Harvard, >>>>>>>>>> Stanford). Yet nobody asks the question, "Why is this a >>>>>>>>>> good >>>>>> thing." >>>>>>>>> There >>>>>>>>>> really isn't much supporting this in earlier distance >>> education. >>>>>>> There >>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>> actually more evidence of how dangerous it is >>>>>>>>>> (Participatory >>>>> Action >>>>>>>>>> Research). >>>>>>>>>>> Michael >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >>>>>>>>>> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Huw Lloyd >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2018 7:32 PM >>>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I would ask, what makes you think you have an ecology (or >>>>> niche)? >>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>> seems that the notion of topologically derived ecologies is >>>>> still >>>>>>>> bandied >>>>>>>>>> about since Bronfenbrenner (1977), though I do not know >>>>>>>>>> whether >>>>> he >>>>>>>>> managed >>>>>>>>>> to refine (overhaul and improve) his notions into something >>>>>>> integrated >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> agent-centric. One does not provide an ecology or an >>>>> environment. >>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> environment is different for everyone, a simple >>>>>>>>>> consideration >>>>> of a >>>>>>>>>> rock-face or climbing wall is sufficient to grasp this -- >>>>>>>>>> the so >>>>>>> called >>>>>>>>>> environment (the rock face) is different to each climber, >>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>> environment >>>>>>>>>> is that which is appropriate to them which includes >>>>>>>>>> contexts >>>>> well >>>>>>>> beyond >>>>>>>>>> what is established in an institution. From what I can >>>>>>>>>> gauge, >>>>>>>>> historically, >>>>>>>>>> slack was deliberately introduced into courses to afford >>>>> personal >>>>>>>>> enquiry. >>>>>>>>>>> There was the basic work and then there was the genuine >>>>> enquiry. >>>>>>> Who >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> their right mind wants to write an exam essay on a question >>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>> expected to pre-write and repeat by memory? Why would >>>>>>>>>> someone >>>>> who >>>>>>>> enjoys >>>>>>>>>> thinking about their subject want to go through that kind >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> impoverished >>>>>>>>>> tedium? These systems are obviously geared for "delivery". >>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps the biggest cultural shift can be achieved >>>>>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>> instituting >>>>>>>>>> joint and personal enquiry. A teacher that stands before >>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>> class >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> delivers their subject inevitably obscures and obstructs >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>> process >>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> enquiry, although many students will have learnt from a >>>>>>>>>> young >>>>> age >>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>> is what to expect and demand. Engagement with genuine >>>>>>>>>> problems >>>>>> rather >>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>>> what students are expected to do is the basic orientational >>>>> issue. >>>>>>>>> Dispose >>>>>>>>>> of grades, then anyone who isn't interested is free to go >>> home. >>>>>>>>>>> The advance of STEM research is probably a good thing for >>>>> social >>>>>>>>> science. >>>>>>>>>>> For productive work, social science must understand the >>>>> structure >>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> STEM based work, in addition to bureaucratic processes and >>>>>>>> circumstances >>>>>>>>>> for creative work. Sticking one's head in the sand over >>>>> STEM-like >>>>>>>>> research >>>>>>>>>> serves merely to perpetuate the impoverished side of social >>>>>> science. >>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>> reminds me of the scene in Pirsig's Zen and the Art of >>>>> Motorcycle >>>>>>>>>> Maintenance in which a couple lack the wherewithal to fix a >>>>>> dripping >>>>>>>>> faucet >>>>>>>>>> that gives them grief and instead choose to ignore it. >>>>>>>>>> Though it >>>>>> was >>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> very >>>>>>>>>> long time ago, Pirsig's book may have contributed to my >>>>>> understanding >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> quality and might be thought of as an exploration of some >>>>>>>>>> social >>>>>>> issues >>>>>>>>>> pertaining to technical enterprises. Another good text to >>>>>> appreciate >>>>>>>>>> quality more directly, probably outside the formal area of >>>>> STEM, is >>>>>>>>>> Alshuller's Innovation Algorithm. >>>>>>>>>>> Warm regards to you Henry, Greg, Alfredo. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>>>> Huw >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 25 February 2018 at 22:39, Alfredo Jornet Gil < >>>>>>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Greg, Huw, and others, I do often get worried that in >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>> formals >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> informal meetings at our department (department of >>>>> education), >>>>>>>>>>>> conversations tend to focus on the "micro" developments >>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>> mention (students, grades, getting a next grant, getting >>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>> paper >>>>>>>>>>>> published, making sure you've got enough) most of the >>>>>>>>>>>> time, >>>>> and >>>>>>> not >>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>>> much on what society we would like to have, and how our >>>>>>> institution >>>>>>>>>>>> could/should contribute to that. I do not have any >>>>> suggestions >>>>>> on >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> type of studies that you ask about?dealing with how >>>>> ecologies of >>>>>>>>>>>> scholarship in academia lead to given developmental >>>>>> dynamics?other >>>>>>>>>>>> than the classical studies in STS, like Latour & >>>>>>>>>>>> Woolgar's on laboratory life, or S. L. Star's. But when >>>>>>>>>>>> I look forward at >>>>>> what >>>>>>>> lies >>>>>>>>>>>> between me (or anyone in my institution) and a change in >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>> way >>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>> institution has impact in the life of many, what I see >>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>> lots >>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> routines, habits, documents, and paperwork entangled in >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>> middle, >>>>>>>>>>>> such that the idea "mediation all the way through" makes >>>>>>>>>>>> all >>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> sense. And seeing things that way (from the ecological >>>>>>> perspective), >>>>>>>>>>>> makes the possibility of changing things to look >>>>>>>>>>>> actually >>>>>>> feasible, >>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>> more accurately perhaps, imagine-able. I'd like to >>>>>>>>>>>> continue >>>>>> being >>>>>>>> part >>>>>>>>>>>> of the ecology to be able to be also be part of its >>>>>>>>>>>> changing >>>>>> it. I >>>>>>>>>>>> hope others will bring more specific literature to bear. >>>>>>>>>>>> I am >>>>>>>> already >>>>>>>>>> downloading some of Peter Sloterdijk's to read. >>>>>>>>>>>> Alfredo >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>>>>>>>>>> on behalf of Greg >>>>>>>>>>>> Thompson >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: 24 February 2018 17:45 >>>>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I appreciate Huw's concern about academia and the push >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>> orient >>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>> broader and more systemic concern with "development". I >>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>> this is what institutions of higher education are >>>>>>>>>>>> supposed to >>>>>>> have, >>>>>>>>>>>> right? - at the very least a concern for the development >>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> individual >>>>>>>>>>>> "students", but also, one would hope, a concern for >>>>>> "development" >>>>>>>> at a >>>>>>>>>>>> longer timescale (e.g., how to be a better society, a >>>>>>>>>>>> better >>>>>>> world). >>>>>>>>>>>> They certainly tout these in their promo materials. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> And yet, in practice, these institutions often fall back >>>>>>>>>>>> on bureaucratic or economic logics. Bureaucratic logic >>>>>>>>>>>> goes >>>>>> something >>>>>>>>>>>> like, "just publish (in "good" (i.e., high impact >>>>>>>>>>>> factor) >>>>>>> journals), >>>>>>>>>>>> who cares what you publish so long as we can count it to >>>>>> determine >>>>>>>> its >>>>>>>>>> (and your) 'value'(!)". >>>>>>>>>>>> As for the economic logic, I was just talking with Rick >>>>> Shweder >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> other day about this issue and he expressed the concern >>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>> the >>>>>>>> push >>>>>>>>>>>> towards STEM education at the expense of all else and >>>>>>>>>>>> the way >>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>> STEM buildings are slowly starting to take over his >>>>>>>>>>>> campus >>>>> (the >>>>>>>>>>>> University of Chicago - a place that was long held to be >>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>> hold >>>>>>> out >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> liberal arts education - apparently they now have an >>>>> engineering >>>>>>>>>>>> program). He suggested that this is tied to an early >>>>>>>>>>>> 80's >>>>> court >>>>>>>>>>>> decision that gave universities ownership of patents >>>>> developed >>>>>> on >>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>> campuses. >>>>>>>>>>>> To my mind, this calls to mind a concern with ecologies >>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> development >>>>>>>>>>>> (across the shorter and longer timescales). What are the >>>>>> ecologies >>>>>>>>>>>> (social, economic, political, etc.) within which >>>>>>>>>>>> development >>>>> (at >>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>>>>> various >>>>>>>>>>>> timescales) occurs in our world today? This is really a >>>>> question >>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> what is possible and/or what is likely with regard to >>>>> becoming. >>>>>>> What >>>>>>>>>>>> are the forms of life and forms of development that are >>>>>>> sustainable >>>>>>>>>>>> given the larger ecologies in which that development >>> happens? >>>>>>>>>>>> And for thinking through that problem, I've had a hard >>>>>>>>>>>> time >>>>>>> thinking >>>>>>>>>>>> of anyone who has better thought through this problem >>>>>>>>>>>> than >>>>> Marx >>>>>> - >>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>> the longer timescale of development, that is (Vygotsky >>>>> would, of >>>>>>>>>>>> course, be better at thinking through development at the >>>>> shorter >>>>>>>>>>>> timescale of ontogeny). >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'd love to hear others' thoughts on those who have >>>>>>>>>>>> studied >>>>>>>> activities >>>>>>>>>>>> that can begin to shed light on these ecologies of >>>>> development >>>>>>>>>>>> (particularly at the longer timescale). Any >>>>>> thoughts/suggestions? >>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> would imagine this work considering various kinds of >>>>>> institutions >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>> run the gamut - from venture capitalist firms to >>>>>>>>>>>> non-profits >>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> governmental institutions to institutions of higher >>>>> education. I >>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>>>>> presume that each of these kinds of institutions would >>>>>>>>>>>> have a >>>>>>> local >>>>>>>>>>>> ecology within which they work, but I am tempted to >>>>>>>>>>>> imagine >>>>> some >>>>>>>> kind >>>>>>>>>>>> of global meta-ecology (perhaps Marx's "global >>>>>>>>>>>> capitalism"?) within which each of these local ecologies >>>>>> operates. >>>>>>>> I'd >>>>>>>>>>>> be curious about actual research that has been done >>>>> documenting >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> nature of these ecologies - e.g., what kinds of >>>>>>>>>>>> resources are available to be exploited? What kinds of >>>>>>>>>>>> possibilities are >>>>> there >>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> different forms of life? What institutional organisms >>>>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>> thrive? >>>>>>>>>>>> Which are dying off? (and just to be clear, I am >>>>>>>>>>>> intending a biological/evolutionary nature of the >>> metaphor). >>>>>>>>>>>> It seems that this kind of work would be most likely to >>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>> been >>>>>>>> done >>>>>>>>>>>> by folks in the CHAT world, but perhaps the scale (of >>>>>>>>>>>> time >>>>> and >>>>>>>> space) >>>>>>>>>>>> is a bit beyond the scales that CHAT folks prefer to >>>>> consider? >>>>>>>>>>>> (I should add that I've recently discovered the work of >>>>>>>>>>>> Peter Sloterdijk's Bubbles trilogy and am curious if >>>>>>>>>>>> anyone has any >>>>>>>> thoughts >>>>>>>>>>>> on the value of his approach - it seems to fit very well >>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>> Marx >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> with CHAT/Vygotsky, my only initial concern was that he >>>>> seems to >>>>>>>> fly a >>>>>>>>>>>> little fast and loose with pyschoanalytics at times - >>>>>>>>>>>> not a >>>>>>> serious >>>>>>>>>>>> problem, but perhaps in a few places). >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sympathetically, >>>>>>>>>>>> greg >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 1:57 PM, Huw Lloyd < >>>>>>>> huw.softdesigns@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, I would say there is more to it than simply >>>>>>> transfer-ability, >>>>>>>>>>>>> which might be thought of as a good bureaucratic >>>>> requirement. >>>>>>>> Really >>>>>>>>>>>>> what is required is genuine development -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> reorganisation of >>>>>>>> thought >>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> learning. >>>>>>>>>>>>> That is what is significant at a personal level, which >>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>> also >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> basis >>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>> insights and creative work (i.e. personal knowledge >>>>>>>>>>>>> rather >>>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>>> second >>>>>>>>>>>> hand >>>>>>>>>>>>> knowledge). The researcher in the blog article does not >>>>> evince >>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>>> (with allusions to the nature of her training). There >>>>>>>>>>>>> is the >>>>>>>> history >>>>>>>>>>>>> school children learn, which largely concerns the use >>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>> memory, >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> then there >>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>> the history of conditions, relations and processes, >>>>>>>>>>>>> which >>>>>>> concerns >>>>>>>>>>>>> protracted thought. This developmental emphasis is what >>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>> lacking >>>>>>>>>>>>> in institutions which is why I have frequently pointed >>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>> out. >>>>>>>>>>>>> This principle apples to "secure" jobs too. The jobs I >>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>> walked >>>>>>>>>>>>> away from have been due to the overly narrow scope, >>>>>>>>>>>>> where I >>>>>> felt >>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>> was necessary to be far more ambitious to achieve >>>>>>>>>>>>> modest satisfaction, an ambition which included >>>>>>>>>>>>> achieving the wider >>>>>>> scope >>>>>>>>>>>>> within the norms established. Similar issues pertain to >>>>>>>>>>>>> my peripheral engagement with academia. Twenty years >>>>>>>>>>>>> ago, after completing a masters in cognitive >>>>>>>>>>>> science >>>>>>>>>>>>> (a good year), I decided against pursuing any further >>>>>>>>>>>>> formal education >>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>> any immediacy due to my sense that what I was >>>>>>>>>>>>> encountering >>>>> in >>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> subject (and related subjects) was fundamentally wrong >>>>>>>>>>>>> or inadequate, but I couldn't quite discern what that >>>>>>>>>>>>> was. So, >>>>> for >>>>>>> me, >>>>>>>>>>>>> I had no interest in furthering the academic course at >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>> time, >>>>>>>>>>>>> because I was concerned with understanding, doing, >>>>> discovering >>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> development, not being a "good researcher". I was and >>>>>>>>>>>>> am uninterested in the trappings of academia, what it >>>>>>>>>>>>> looks >>>>> like >>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>>>> the outside (with dubious ethics of promoting those in >>>>> society >>>>>>> who >>>>>>>>>>>>> least need it) -- hence I am not too bothered about >>>>>>>>>>>>> where >>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> experiences come from. After all, if you want sound >>>>> knowledge >>>>>>> then >>>>>>>>>>>>> it should be validated in places where it counts (in >>>>> action), >>>>>> not >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> an echo chamber of words. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> From my (developmental) perspective academia appears >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be chockfull of >>>>>>>>>>>>> unproductive thinking. The lack of systems >>>>>>>>>>>>> understanding in >>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> social sciences (which has been pointed out by key >>>>>>>>>>>>> persons >>>>> for >>>>>>> two >>>>>>>>>>>>> generations) >>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> find to be quite incredible. This, as far as I can see, >>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> panacea to the stasis and lethargy that I have seen in >>>>> certain >>>>>>>>>>>>> institutions, where there are people in secure jobs >>>>>>>>>>>>> with no >>>>>>>> interest >>>>>>>>>>>>> in revitalising an institution (perhaps the same people >>>>>>>>>>>>> who >>>>>> rely >>>>>>>>>>>>> upon their status for authority). In the UK, in the >>>>>>>>>>>>> social >>>>>>>> sciences, >>>>>>>>>>>>> the whole social science infrastructure is built upon a >>>>> notion >>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>> quality that is ignorant of systems -- that is the >>>>>>>>>>>>> degree to >>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>>>>>> unproductive thinking has >>>>>>>>>>>> penetrated >>>>>>>>>>>>> social science. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Yet there is much more to it still. Recently I have >>>>>>>>>>>>> also >>>>> come >>>>>> to >>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>> surprising awareness that developmental prerogatives >>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>> rather >>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>> significant amount in common with spiritual ones. So I >>>>>>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>> offer >>>>>>>>>>>> broader >>>>>>>>>>>>> advice than Michael's of staying clear of hardship. It >>>>>>>>>>>>> may >>>>> be >>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>> "nadir" something surprising may be discovered. For >>>>>>>>>>>>> anyone >>>>>> with a >>>>>>>>>>>>> passion "job security" is not a goal, at best it is a >>>>>>>>>>>>> means >>>>> to >>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>>> ends, at worst >>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>> is an obstacle. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Over and out. :) >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Huw >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 20 February 2018 at 07:12, Alfredo Jornet Gil >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Huw, Helena, and all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> thanks to you both for taking the discussion where I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>> hoping >>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> go >>>>>>>>>>>>>> further: first, towards a reflection on the nature of >>>>> training >>>>>>>>>>>>>> academic scholars go through as it concerns the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> classical >>>>>>> problem >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of learning "transfer"; and then, as it regards the >>>>> question >>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> academic freedom >>>>>>>>>>>>> (which >>>>>>>>>>>>>> actually may be the same question, just taken in a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> language >>>>>> more >>>>>>>>>>>> adequate >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to an ecological understanding of the problem). This >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>> absolutely >>>>>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>>>>>>>> an individual problem. And, on that matter, I should >>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>> clear >>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> am a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> privileged in a privileged land, where, despite all >>>>>> uncertainty >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> pains >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that my family have gone and go through, I have today >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>> good >>>>>>>>>>>>>> background >>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> network, and probably better prospects than the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> majority of >>>>>>> junior >>>>>>>>>>>>> scholars >>>>>>>>>>>>>> out there. Not that I have earned this privilege for >>>>> nothing: >>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>> migrant >>>>>>>>>>>>>> history and that of my family is all connected to an >>>>>>>>>>>>>> effort >>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> quest >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> get better chances of academic opportunity in this >>>>>>>>>>>>>> market >>>>>> Helena >>>>>>>>>>>>>> talks about. But my personal story, as that of the >>>>> historian >>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the article shared or of my French astronomer friend, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>> relevant >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in as far as >>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>>>> help us reflect on just those questions. They really >>>>>>>>>>>>>> also >>>>> make >>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>>>>> wonder >>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the sense of the term "academic freedom", for the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> latter >>>>>> term >>>>>>>>>>>>>> cannot >>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> about doing whatever research you want to do >>>>>>>>>>>>>> independently >>>>> of >>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>>>>> market >>>>>>>>>>>>>> conditions and societal needs and economy. We may then >>>>>>>>>>>>>> pose >>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> questions, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> what type of "freedom" is the "freedom" current >>>>>>>>>>>>>> systems (of incentives, >>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ISI lists) afford, and what type of system could allow >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>> another >>>>>>>>>>>>> meaning >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the term "freedom"? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not to get too abstract, I guess that those >>>>>>>>>>>>>> reflections >>>>> may be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> best pondered along concrete cases, if people is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> willing to >>>>>> take >>>>>>>>>>>>>> on Helena's suggestion to share particular stories of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> all >>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> goes into getting >>>>>>>>>>>> into >>>>>>>>>>>>>> secured academic job positions, or else, of pursuing >>>>>>> (in)dependent >>>>>>>>>>>>> careers >>>>>>>>>>>>>> outside/at the borders of/across academia. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alfredo >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> on behalf of Helena Worthen >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: 19 February 2018 19:19 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> In the interests of widening the discussion: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I?ve described my work history before on this list ? >>>>>> basically, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> moving from teaching literature and writing (with >>>>> stopovers in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> landscape architecture and theater production) to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> concern >>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the working conditions of teachers, especially >>>>>>>>>>>>>> academics in >>>>>>> higher >>>>>>>>>>>>>> education, the >>>>>>>>>>>> 75% >>>>>>>>>>>>>> who are contingent/adjuncts. The concern is both for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>>>> employed >>>>>>>>>>>>>> this way and for the integrity of the institutions >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>> employ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> them. I eventually engaged this concern by working >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with and >>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the labor >>>>>>>>>>>>> movement, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ending up first working for the garment/apparel >>>>>>>>>>>>>> workers >>>>> union >>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Philadelphia and then at the Labor Educaiton Program >>>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>> the U >>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>> Illinois, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> from which I retired in 2010. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The new twist to this story is about the employment of >>>>>> academics >>>>>>>>>>>>>> on short-term contracts in Viet Nam, under conditions >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>> seem >>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> be increasingly frequent in the ?developing? world, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> where >>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> market for education is booming. University World News >>>>>>> http://www >>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>>> universityworldnews.com/ tracks this phenomenon and >>>>> includes >>>>>>>>>>>> occasinal >>>>>>>>>>>>>> critical articles about the competition for rankings. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The university >>>>>>>>>>>>> where >>>>>>>>>>>>>> my husband and I have been teaching on and off since >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2015, >>>>> Ton >>>>>>> Duc >>>>>>>>>>>> Thang >>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ho Chi Minh City, recruits professors from all over >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>> world >>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a promise of $2,000 per month US ? but extending their >>>>>> contracts >>>>>>>>>>>>>> depends >>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>>> producing articles published in journals on the ISI >>>>>>>>>>>>>> list; >>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nature of this list is worth taking a look at. The >>>>>>>>>>>>>> impact >>>>> of >>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice on the culture and student body is not all bad. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> My point here is to place the issue of the challenge >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>> getting >>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> tenure-track job in a global context. This is not just >>>>>>>>>>>>>> an individual problem. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I?m willing to go further down this line of discussion. >>>>>> However, >>>>>>>>>>>>> academics >>>>>>>>>>>>>> are often reluctant to reveal and compare their >>>>>>>>>>>>>> working >>>>>>> conditions >>>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ?academic? discussion list. Maybe by putting up the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> issue >>>>> of >>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>>>> academic >>>>>>>>>>>>>> freedom requires, and how these requirements fare in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>> global >>>>>>>>>>>>>> market >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> higher education, we can shed the embarassment of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> revealing information about our own experiences with >>>>>>>>>>>>>> getting the >>>>> brass >>>>>>> ring >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of a full-time, secure job. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let?s see if anyone picks up on this. Maybe I?m being >>>>>>>>>>>>>> too >>>>>> vague. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Helena Worthen >>>>>>>>>>>>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com Berkeley, CA 94707 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 510-828-2745 Blog US/ Viet Nam: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> skype: helena.worthen1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 19, 2018, at 9:19 AM, Huw Lloyd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The article describes accumulating large amounts of >>>>> knowledge >>>>>>>>>>>>> pertaining >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> history, which (the author maintains) cannot be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turned to >>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>>>> endeavours. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This, no doubt, is true for her. If, however, her >>>>> approach to >>>>>>>>>>>> studying >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> history had been systemic, then there would have been >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>> powerful >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> form >>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> re-application and continuity in any work that was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turned >>>>> to. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same can be said for "phd/postdoc training". If it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cannot >>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reused >>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> isn't enabling, what, substantively, is it? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Huw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 18 February 2018 at 18:32, Alfredo Jornet Gil < >>>>>>>>>>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Really inspiring words and work, Francine. I do see >>>>>> community >>>>>>>>>>>> colleges >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many other educational settings apart from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> universities >>>>> as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really >>>>>>>>>>>>>> valuable >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and exciting opportunities; the PhD and following >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> postdoc >>>>>> etc >>>>>>>>>>>> training >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> universities, however, tend to be very much targeted >>>>>> towards a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> very >>>>>>>>>>>>>> narrow >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spectrum of positions, or at least that's been my >>>>>> experience. >>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>>>>>>> very >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happy that this thread may widen that scope and make >>>>> visible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>>>> paths. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And as Mike suggested, it would be very interesting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>> hear >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>>>> several >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others who have followed distinct trajectories apart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phd-postdoc-assist/assoc. prof-prof, and yet made a >>>>> career >>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> touch >>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> most of what was developed in the junior (phd and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few >>>>> later) >>>>>>>>> years. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alfredo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> edu> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on behalf of Larry Smolucha >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: 18 February 2018 06:20 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Message from Francine Smolucha on a scholar's life >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without >>>>>>>>>>>>>> academia >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alfredo, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are other jobs that pay well (sometimes with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tenure >>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> early retirement benefits) - besides professorships >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>> four >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> year colleges >>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> universities. Administrative and support staff >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> positions >>>>>> pay >>>>>>>>> well. >>>>>>>>>>>>> And >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't overlook community colleges, technical >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> colleges, >>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> public >>>>>>>>>>>>> grade >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> schools and high schools. There is also the private >>>>> sector >>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> government >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jobs. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As a 'low status' community college professor, I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> managed >>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> translate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Vygotsky's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> overlooked writings on creativity (back in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1980's) >>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> introduced >>>>>>>>>>>>>> his >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theory of creativity to academia. I got early >>>>> retirement at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> age 53 >>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> continue to write and publish. While my Ph.D from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the University of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chicago >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gave me academic bona fides, it was the quality of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the scholarly >>>>>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ultimately mattered. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was always inspired by the harsh circumstances of >>>>>> Vygotsky's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> life >>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how he still kept on writing. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [When I felt really sorry for myself, I would >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actually >>>>> say >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Well at >>>>>>>>>>>>>> least >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not coughing up blood"] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So many of his works were not published in his >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lifetime, >>>>> he >>>>>>> did >>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> collect a royalties check, and they say he was >>>>> depressed >>>>>> at >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> end >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his life. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I leave you with this quote from an ancient Sufi >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mystic - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You can't always get what you want but you can get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> edu> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on behalf of mike cole >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:07 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yours is a quandary shared by your generation, Alfredo. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Being allowed to teach and conduct research in a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quality institution >>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great privilege and an increasingly rarer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possibility. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are several people on this list who have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> organized >>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lives >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> independent scholars while staying connected to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> core institutions of disciplinary >>>>>>>>>>>>>> training. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It might be nice to hear the variety out there. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It appears pretty certain that the situation is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going to >>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worse before/if it gets better. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What can the collective experience of xmca come up >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> useful to the many >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of you caught in this meat grinder? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mike >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good luck then, Wagner! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit < >>>>> wagner.schmit@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: 18 February 2018 01:07 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This just hit me in the spot... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wagner >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2018 9:48 PM, "Alfredo Jornet Gil" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have not been able to contribute to this list as >>>>> much as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd >>>>>>>>>>>> like >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lately, among other things, because I need to find >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>> job, >>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make sure that I have checked all those boxes that >>>>>> selection >>>>>>>>>>>>>> committees >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will check (enough first-authored publications? in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good enough >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> journals? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> acquiring >>>>>>>>>>>>> funds? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than all others candidates? and more than >>>>>>>>>>>>> favoured-for-whatever-other- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these >>>>> weeks >>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fill >>>>>>>>>>>> up >>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, although I did not think that it was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> particularly >>>>>> well >>>>>>>>>>>> written, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was both relieving and discouraging to read this >>>>> article >>>>>>> (see >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> link >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> below, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who >>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> subscribes this list). The article makes visible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>> pain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> scholars >>>>>>>>>>>>> go >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> through when, after so many years of digging and >>>>> digging >>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> digging a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leave it >>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find >>>>>>>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who >>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> moving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the world with his lovely family, short-term >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> project >>>>> after >>>>>>>>>>>>> short-term >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> project, getting better and better at what he >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worked on >>>>>>>>>>>> (apparently >>>>>>>>>>>>> he >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> among the few who had expertise in computer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> modeling simulating >>>>>>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> astronomic events) , and finally having to step >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out >>>>>> academia >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> last >>>>>>>>>>>>> year >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find something else to do, for his family no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> longer >>>>> could >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stand >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>> soon. >>>>>>> And >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>> may >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the >>>>> story >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems to >>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> endemic to academia and may be interesting to some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>> you: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Lo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ses- >>>>>>> When/24 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2560 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alfredo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>>>>>>>>>>> Assistant Professor >>>>>>>>>>>> Department of Anthropology >>>>>>>>>>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University >>>>>>>>>>>> Provo, UT 84602 >>>>>>>>>>>> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu >>>>>>>>>>>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>>>>>>>> Assistant Professor >>>>>>>>> Department of Anthropology >>>>>>>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >>>>>>>>> Brigham Young University >>>>>>>>> Provo, UT 84602 >>>>>>>>> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu >>>>>>>>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>>>>> Assistant Professor >>>>>> Department of Anthropology >>>>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >>>>>> Brigham Young University >>>>>> Provo, UT 84602 >>>>>> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu >>>>>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>>> Assistant Professor >>>> Department of Anthropology >>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >>>> Brigham Young University >>>> Provo, UT 84602 >>>> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu >>>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>> Assistant Professor >>> Department of Anthropology >>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >>> Brigham Young University >>> Provo, UT 84602 >>> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu >>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >> Assistant Professor >> Department of Anthropology >> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >> Brigham Young University >> Provo, UT 84602 >> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu >> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >> > From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Thu Mar 1 01:38:27 2018 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2018 09:38:27 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The discovery of slowness In-Reply-To: <6DED4BA7-2090-4B37-AEE2-26B810854808@helsinki.fi> References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> <1518914964416.39650@iped.uio.no> <1518978734957.93647@iped.uio.no> <87FCF1E0-1B28-4F92-A85C-9E5A10424B74@gmail.com> <1519110745104.46827@iped.uio.no> <1519598399026.36406@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AD5C72@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> , <6DED4BA7-2090-4B37-AEE2-26B810854808@helsinki.fi> Message-ID: <590DDE5C-8E66-4C05-9831-CF969AA18C19@iped.uio.no> Thanks for sharing, Yrj?; Anyone else here listens to Radiolab podcasts? There is one episode on Speed, called Speed, where, through the telling of several real life stories, about the speed at which neuronal communication occurs; about the speed at which stock market purchases and decision making is performed today by intelligent algorithms, leading to our absolute loss of control/understanding of why things happen the way they happen in that market, and how that career for the ever faster decision is transforming the whole system... It seems to me that there is something about the pace of humanness and solidarity that could be essential to it? Like, ?as quick as possible? and ?solidarity? do not seem to match well except when it almost is too late? Alfredo > On 1 Mar 2018, at 08:16, Engestr?m, Yrj? H M wrote: > > Check out this: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Discovery_of_Slowness > > Cheers, > > Yrj? Engestr?m > > > > On 01 Mar 2018, at 03:20, mike cole > wrote: > > Some fare better than others in the system that Greg points us to. The > phrase that all that's solid turns into air comes to mind. > > There is certainly something to slow science. I believe that Jean Lave > initiated such a center > a few years ago at Berkeley, although I am not sure of its current status. > > mike > > > On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 4:33 PM, Wolff-Michael Roth < > wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com> wrote: > > Greg, not all people will think being publishing machines. Some, like > myself, enjoy spending many hours a day writing, analyzing etc. and turning > all of this into peer-reviewed articles. > > I referred to my earliest experience before, when I was told I would not > make tenure; and I felt I would not be able to make the 2 articles or so > per year in high quality journals. > > But after an absence from academia, it changed. I started doing research > for myself initially, and then wrote it up. From then on, it was different, > writing was something I wanted to do, and the more I did, the better I got > at it. (Not that the peer-review process would have gotten easier.) > > I do admit, though, that the system as set up right now then tends to > reward people who publish more than others, and in "better" journals. > > And it depends on context. In the department that I am affiliated with, > there are people promoted and tenured without at least a handful of > articles in commonly recognized journals. And if you are happy with an > average increase in your salary, you don't have to get stressed in our > place either. > > Michael > > > > > On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 4:04 PM, Greg Thompson > > wrote: > > I once toyed with the idea of "slow scholarship" and I remain entirely > convinced that this is a virtue. But once I was entered into the > competition/race of academia, it was all about how fast you can get to > the > finish line (aka "publications"). > > Perhaps there is something good about this (assuming that it is better to > publish something than to not publish anything), but it also has the > nefarious effect of turning scholars into cogs in publishing factories. > > And, continuing in this cynical spirit, I might add that the Science > article about "Slow" actually seems to be making the same case for speed > - > maybe it isn't a sprint, but it is still a race and first one to the > finish > line wins, so you better pick up the pace! Fast! > > And re: the man whispering in his ear as he runs: > "We see how in this way the mode of production and the means of > production > are continually transformed, revolutionised, *how the division of labour > is > necessarily followed by greater divisions of labour, the application of > machinery by still greater application of machinery, work on a large > scale > by work on a still larger scale.* > > "That is the law which again and again throws bourgeois production out of > its old course and which compels capital to intensify the productive > forces > of labour, *because *it has intensified them, it, the law which gives > capital no rest and continually whispers in its ear: 'Go on! Go on!'" > (Marx - Wage Labour and Capital). > > -greg? > > On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 3:11 PM, Wolff-Michael Roth < > wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi all, > this article "In praise of slow" appears to be fitting the discussion. > The > author uses a nice analogy with running. Michael > http://science.sciencemag.org/content/359/6375/602 > > On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 8:40 AM, Huw Lloyd > wrote: > > "Assessing their abilities and accomplishments in this regard was a > matter > of judgment and so could not be quantified; it could be exercised > only > by > those capable of it." > > I would say, "cannot be quantified simply". > > Best, > Huw > > On 26 February 2018 at 15:05, Greg Thompson < > greg.a.thompson@gmail.com > > wrote: > > And here is a nice article that speaks to the bureaucratic logic > that I > was > mentioning (the author refers to "the all-administrative > institution"): > https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/whose-university-is- > it-anyway/#! > > A quote from it: > "The revolution is over and the administrators have won. But the > persistence of traditional structures and language has led some to > think > that the fight over the institution is now just beginning. This is > a > mistake. As with most revolutions, open conflict occurs only after > real > power has already changed hands." > > -greg > > On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 6:27 PM, Martin Packer > wrote: > > On STEM and social science: > > < doctors-revolt-bernard-lown.html?action=click&pgtype= > Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col- > left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav= > opinion-c-col-left-region 02/24/opinion/sunday/doctors-revolt-bernard-lown.html? > action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading& > module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c-col- > left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region>>> > > On measures of learning: > > measure-learning-outcomes.html?action=click&pgtype= > Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col- > left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav= > opinion-c-col-left-region 02/23/opinion/sunday/colleges-measure-learning-outcomes. > html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story- > heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c- > col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region>> > > Martin > > > > > On Feb 25, 2018, at 8:15 PM, Glassman, Michael < > glassman.13@osu.edu> > wrote: > > Hi Huw, > > Perhaps the opposite is also true though. STEM researchers can > better > understand what they are doing if they are well versed in the > social > sciences. Understand the history and the meaning of what they are > doing > so > they do not act as androids (sorry, been watching the Aliens > trilogy > of > late). Perhaps we made the wrong calculation. We have lost > control > of > our > great STEM innovations because the people using them don't > understand > the > social webs that they create. So we have people pushing xMOOCs > (whatever > happened to MOOCs anyway) as saving education (and also a bundle > so > everybody gets tax cuts, wheeee!), saying that they are good > because > they > can reach many, the proverbial long tail, with great education > (Harvard, > Stanford). Yet nobody asks the question, "Why is this a good > thing." > There > really isn't much supporting this in earlier distance education. > There > is > actually more evidence of how dangerous it is (Participatory > Action > Research). > > Michael > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Huw Lloyd > Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2018 7:32 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > I would ask, what makes you think you have an ecology (or > niche)? > It > seems that the notion of topologically derived ecologies is still > bandied > about since Bronfenbrenner (1977), though I do not know whether > he > managed > to refine (overhaul and improve) his notions into something > integrated > and > agent-centric. One does not provide an ecology or an environment. > The > environment is different for everyone, a simple consideration of > a > rock-face or climbing wall is sufficient to grasp this -- the so > called > environment (the rock face) is different to each climber, their > environment > is that which is appropriate to them which includes contexts well > beyond > what is established in an institution. From what I can gauge, > historically, > slack was deliberately introduced into courses to afford personal > enquiry. > There was the basic work and then there was the genuine > enquiry. > Who > in > their right mind wants to write an exam essay on a question they > are > expected to pre-write and repeat by memory? Why would someone who > enjoys > thinking about their subject want to go through that kind of > impoverished > tedium? These systems are obviously geared for "delivery". > > Perhaps the biggest cultural shift can be achieved through > instituting > joint and personal enquiry. A teacher that stands before their > class > and > delivers their subject inevitably obscures and obstructs the > process > of > enquiry, although many students will have learnt from a young age > that > this > is what to expect and demand. Engagement with genuine problems > rather > than > what students are expected to do is the basic orientational > issue. > Dispose > of grades, then anyone who isn't interested is free to go home. > > The advance of STEM research is probably a good thing for > social > science. > For productive work, social science must understand the > structure > of > STEM based work, in addition to bureaucratic processes and > circumstances > for creative work. Sticking one's head in the sand over STEM-like > research > serves merely to perpetuate the impoverished side of social > science. > It > reminds me of the scene in Pirsig's Zen and the Art of Motorcycle > Maintenance in which a couple lack the wherewithal to fix a > dripping > faucet > that gives them grief and instead choose to ignore it. Though it > was > a > very > long time ago, Pirsig's book may have contributed to my > understanding > of > quality and might be thought of as an exploration of some social > issues > pertaining to technical enterprises. Another good text to > appreciate > quality more directly, probably outside the formal area of STEM, > is > Alshuller's Innovation Algorithm. > > Warm regards to you Henry, Greg, Alfredo. > > Best, > Huw > > On 25 February 2018 at 22:39, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > wrote: > > Greg, Huw, and others, I do often get worried that in the > formals > and > informal meetings at our department (department of education), > conversations tend to focus on the "micro" developments that > you > mention (students, grades, getting a next grant, getting that > paper > published, making sure you've got enough) most of the time, > and > not > so > much on what society we would like to have, and how our > institution > could/should contribute to that. I do not have any suggestions > on > the > type of studies that you ask about?dealing with how ecologies > of > scholarship in academia lead to given developmental > dynamics?other > than the classical studies in STS, like Latour & Woolgar's on > laboratory life, or S. L. Star's. But when I look forward at > what > lies > between me (or anyone in my institution) and a change in the > way > this > institution has impact in the life of many, what I see is lots > of > routines, habits, documents, and paperwork entangled in the > middle, > such that the idea "mediation all the way through" makes all > the > sense. And seeing things that way (from the ecological > perspective), > makes the possibility of changing things to look actually > feasible, > or > more accurately perhaps, imagine-able. I'd like to continue > being > part > of the ecology to be able to be also be part of its changing > it. I > hope others will bring more specific literature to bear. I am > already > downloading some of Peter Sloterdijk's to read. > > Alfredo > > > > ________________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Greg Thompson > > Sent: 24 February 2018 17:45 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > I appreciate Huw's concern about academia and the push to > orient > to > a > broader and more systemic concern with "development". I think > that > this is what institutions of higher education are supposed to > have, > right? - at the very least a concern for the development of > individual > "students", but also, one would hope, a concern for > "development" > at a > longer timescale (e.g., how to be a better society, a better > world). > They certainly tout these in their promo materials. > > And yet, in practice, these institutions often fall back on > bureaucratic or economic logics. Bureaucratic logic goes > something > like, "just publish (in "good" (i.e., high impact factor) > journals), > who cares what you publish so long as we can count it to > determine > its > (and your) 'value'(!)". > > As for the economic logic, I was just talking with Rick > Shweder > the > other day about this issue and he expressed the concern about > the > push > towards STEM education at the expense of all else and the way > that > STEM buildings are slowly starting to take over his campus > (the > University of Chicago - a place that was long held to be a > hold > out > of > liberal arts education - apparently they now have an > engineering > program). He suggested that this is tied to an early 80's > court > decision that gave universities ownership of patents developed > on > their > campuses. > > To my mind, this calls to mind a concern with ecologies of > development > (across the shorter and longer timescales). What are the > ecologies > (social, economic, political, etc.) within which development > (at > these > various > timescales) occurs in our world today? This is really a > question > of > what is possible and/or what is likely with regard to > becoming. > What > are the forms of life and forms of development that are > sustainable > given the larger ecologies in which that development happens? > > And for thinking through that problem, I've had a hard time > thinking > of anyone who has better thought through this problem than > Marx > - > at > the longer timescale of development, that is (Vygotsky would, > of > course, be better at thinking through development at the > shorter > timescale of ontogeny). > > I'd love to hear others' thoughts on those who have studied > activities > that can begin to shed light on these ecologies of development > (particularly at the longer timescale). Any > thoughts/suggestions? > I > would imagine this work considering various kinds of > institutions > that > run the gamut - from venture capitalist firms to non-profits > to > governmental institutions to institutions of higher > education. I > would > presume that each of these kinds of institutions would have a > local > ecology within which they work, but I am tempted to imagine > some > kind > of global meta-ecology (perhaps Marx's "global > capitalism"?) within which each of these local ecologies > operates. > I'd > be curious about actual research that has been done > documenting > the > nature of these ecologies - e.g., what kinds of resources are > available to be exploited? What kinds of possibilities are > there > for > different forms of life? What institutional organisms can > thrive? > Which are dying off? (and just to be clear, I am intending a > biological/evolutionary nature of the metaphor). > > It seems that this kind of work would be most likely to have > been > done > by folks in the CHAT world, but perhaps the scale (of time and > space) > is a bit beyond the scales that CHAT folks prefer to consider? > > (I should add that I've recently discovered the work of Peter > Sloterdijk's Bubbles trilogy and am curious if anyone has any > thoughts > on the value of his approach - it seems to fit very well with > Marx > and > with CHAT/Vygotsky, my only initial concern was that he seems > to > fly a > little fast and loose with pyschoanalytics at times - not a > serious > problem, but perhaps in a few places). > > Sympathetically, > greg > > > > > On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 1:57 PM, Huw Lloyd < > huw.softdesigns@gmail.com > > wrote: > > Well, I would say there is more to it than simply > transfer-ability, > which might be thought of as a good bureaucratic requirement. > Really > what is required is genuine development -- reorganisation of > thought > and > learning. > That is what is significant at a personal level, which is > also > the > basis > of > insights and creative work (i.e. personal knowledge rather > than > second > hand > knowledge). The researcher in the blog article does not > evince > this > (with allusions to the nature of her training). There is the > history > school children learn, which largely concerns the use of > memory, > and > then there > is > the history of conditions, relations and processes, which > concerns > protracted thought. This developmental emphasis is what is > lacking > in institutions which is why I have frequently pointed it > out. > > This principle apples to "secure" jobs too. The jobs I have > walked > away from have been due to the overly narrow scope, where I > felt > it > was necessary to be far more ambitious to achieve modest > satisfaction, an ambition which included achieving the wider > scope > within the norms established. Similar issues pertain to my > peripheral engagement with academia. Twenty years ago, after > completing a masters in cognitive > science > (a good year), I decided against pursuing any further formal > education > with > any immediacy due to my sense that what I was encountering in > the > subject (and related subjects) was fundamentally wrong or > inadequate, but I couldn't quite discern what that was. So, > for > me, > I had no interest in furthering the academic course at the > time, > because I was concerned with understanding, doing, > discovering > and > development, not being a "good researcher". I was and am > uninterested in the trappings of academia, what it looks like > from > the outside (with dubious ethics of promoting those in > society > who > least need it) -- hence I am not too bothered about where the > experiences come from. After all, if you want sound knowledge > then > it should be validated in places where it counts (in action), > not > in > an echo chamber of words. > > From my (developmental) perspective academia appears to be > chockfull of > unproductive thinking. The lack of systems understanding in > the > social sciences (which has been pointed out by key persons > for > two > generations) > I > find to be quite incredible. This, as far as I can see, is > the > panacea to the stasis and lethargy that I have seen in > certain > institutions, where there are people in secure jobs with no > interest > in revitalising an institution (perhaps the same people who > rely > upon their status for authority). In the UK, in the social > sciences, > the whole social science infrastructure is built upon a > notion > of > quality that is ignorant of systems -- that is the degree to > which > unproductive thinking has > penetrated > social science. > > Yet there is much more to it still. Recently I have also come > to > a > surprising awareness that developmental prerogatives have > rather > a > significant amount in common with spiritual ones. So I would > offer > broader > advice than Michael's of staying clear of hardship. It may be > that > in > that > "nadir" something surprising may be discovered. For anyone > with a > passion "job security" is not a goal, at best it is a means > to > an > ends, at worst > it > is an obstacle. > > Over and out. :) > > Best, > Huw > > On 20 February 2018 at 07:12, Alfredo Jornet Gil > > wrote: > > Huw, Helena, and all, > > thanks to you both for taking the discussion where I was > hoping > it > to > go > further: first, towards a reflection on the nature of > training > academic scholars go through as it concerns the classical > problem > of learning "transfer"; and then, as it regards the question > of > academic freedom > (which > actually may be the same question, just taken in a language > more > adequate > to an ecological understanding of the problem). This is > absolutely > not > just > an individual problem. And, on that matter, I should be > clear > that > I > am a > privileged in a privileged land, where, despite all > uncertainty > and > pains > that my family have gone and go through, I have today a good > background > and > network, and probably better prospects than the majority of > junior > scholars > out there. Not that I have earned this privilege for > nothing: > my > migrant > history and that of my family is all connected to an effort > and > quest > to > get better chances of academic opportunity in this market > Helena > talks about. But my personal story, as that of the historian > in > the article shared or of my French astronomer friend, are > relevant > in as far as > they > help us reflect on just those questions. They really also > make > one > wonder > on the sense of the term "academic freedom", for the latter > term > cannot > be > about doing whatever research you want to do independently > of > some > market > conditions and societal needs and economy. We may then pose > the > questions, > what type of "freedom" is the "freedom" current systems (of > incentives, > of > ISI lists) afford, and what type of system could allow for > another > meaning > of the term "freedom"? > > Not to get too abstract, I guess that those reflections may > be > best pondered along concrete cases, if people is willing to > take > on Helena's suggestion to share particular stories of all > that > goes into getting > into > secured academic job positions, or else, of pursuing > (in)dependent > careers > outside/at the borders of/across academia. > > Alfredo > > > ________________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > on behalf of Helena Worthen > Sent: 19 February 2018 19:19 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > In the interests of widening the discussion: > > I?ve described my work history before on this list ? > basically, > moving from teaching literature and writing (with stopovers > in > landscape architecture and theater production) to concern > about > the working conditions of teachers, especially academics in > higher > education, the > 75% > who are contingent/adjuncts. The concern is both for the > people > employed > this way and for the integrity of the institutions that > employ > them. I eventually engaged this concern by working with and > for > the labor > movement, > ending up first working for the garment/apparel workers > union > in > Philadelphia and then at the Labor Educaiton Program at the > U > of > Illinois, > from which I retired in 2010. > > The new twist to this story is about the employment of > academics > on short-term contracts in Viet Nam, under conditions that > seem > to > be increasingly frequent in the ?developing? world, where > the > market for education is booming. University World News > http://www > . > universityworldnews.com/ tracks this phenomenon and > includes > occasinal > critical articles about the competition for rankings. The > university > where > my husband and I have been teaching on and off since 2015, > Ton > Duc > Thang > in > Ho Chi Minh City, recruits professors from all over the > world > with > a promise of $2,000 per month US ? but extending their > contracts > depends > on > producing articles published in journals on the ISI list; > the > nature of this list is worth taking a look at. The impact of > this > practice on the culture and student body is not all bad. > > My point here is to place the issue of the challenge of > getting > a > tenure-track job in a global context. This is not just an > individual problem. > > I?m willing to go further down this line of discussion. > However, > academics > are often reluctant to reveal and compare their working > conditions > on > an > ?academic? discussion list. Maybe by putting up the issue of > what > academic > freedom requires, and how these requirements fare in the > global > market > for > higher education, we can shed the embarassment of revealing > information about our own experiences with getting the brass > ring > of a full-time, secure job. > > Let?s see if anyone picks up on this. Maybe I?m being too > vague. > > Helena Worthen > helenaworthen@gmail.com > Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 > Blog US/ Viet Nam: > helenaworthen.wordpress.com > skype: helena.worthen1 > > > > > > > > On Feb 19, 2018, at 9:19 AM, Huw Lloyd > > wrote: > > The article describes accumulating large amounts of > knowledge > pertaining > to > history, which (the author maintains) cannot be turned to > other > endeavours. > This, no doubt, is true for her. If, however, her approach > to > studying > history had been systemic, then there would have been a > powerful > form > of > re-application and continuity in any work that was turned > to. > Perhaps > the > same can be said for "phd/postdoc training". If it cannot > be > reused > or > isn't enabling, what, substantively, is it? > > Best, > Huw > > > On 18 February 2018 at 18:32, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > wrote: > > Really inspiring words and work, Francine. I do see > community > colleges > and > many other educational settings apart from universities as > really > valuable > and exciting opportunities; the PhD and following postdoc > etc > training > in > universities, however, tend to be very much targeted > towards a > very > narrow > spectrum of positions, or at least that's been my > experience. > I > am > very > happy that this thread may widen that scope and make > visible > other > paths. > And as Mike suggested, it would be very interesting to > hear > from > several > others who have followed distinct trajectories apart from > the > phd-postdoc-assist/assoc. prof-prof, and yet made a career > in > touch > with > most of what was developed in the junior (phd and few > later) > years. > Thanks! > Alfredo > ________________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > edu> > on behalf of Larry Smolucha > Sent: 18 February 2018 06:20 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > Message from Francine Smolucha on a scholar's life with or > without > academia > > > Alfredo, > > > There are other jobs that pay well (sometimes with tenure > and > early retirement benefits) - besides professorships at > four > year colleges > and > universities. Administrative and support staff positions > pay > well. > And > don't overlook community colleges, technical colleges, and > public > grade > schools and high schools. There is also the private sector > and > government > jobs. > > > As a 'low status' community college professor, I managed > to > translate > Vygotsky's > > overlooked writings on creativity (back in the 1980's) and > introduced > his > theory of creativity to academia. I got early retirement > at > age 53 > and > continue to write and publish. While my Ph.D from the > University of > Chicago > gave me academic bona fides, it was the quality of the > scholarly > work > that > ultimately mattered. > > > I was always inspired by the harsh circumstances of > Vygotsky's > life > and > how he still kept on writing. > > [When I felt really sorry for myself, I would actually say > "Well at > least > I am not coughing up blood"] > > So many of his works were not published in his lifetime, > he > did > not > collect a royalties check, and they say he was > depressed > at > the > end > of > his life. > > > I leave you with this quote from an ancient Sufi mystic - > > > You can't always get what you want but you can get what > you > need > > > . > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > edu> > on behalf of mike cole > Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:07 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > Yours is a quandary shared by your generation, Alfredo. > Being allowed to teach and conduct research in a quality > institution > is > a > great privilege and an > increasingly rarer possibility. > > There are several people on this list who have organized > their > lives > to > be > independent scholars > while staying connected to the core institutions of > disciplinary > training. > It might be nice to hear > the variety out there. > > It appears pretty certain that the situation is going to > get > worse before/if it gets better. > > What can the collective experience of xmca come up with > that > would > be > useful to the many > of you caught in this meat grinder? > > mike > > > > On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > wrote: > > Good luck then, Wagner! > A > ________________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > edu > > on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit > Sent: 18 February 2018 01:07 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > This just hit me in the spot... > > Wagner > > On Feb 17, 2018 9:48 PM, "Alfredo Jornet Gil" > > wrote: > > I have not been able to contribute to this list as much > as > I'd > like > to > lately, among other things, because I need to find a > job, > and > I > need > to > make sure that I have checked all those boxes that > selection > committees > will check (enough first-authored publications? in good > enough > journals? > enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? > acquiring > funds? > more > than all others candidates? and more than > favoured-for-whatever-other- > reasons > candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these weeks > to > fill > up > a > competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. > > > And, although I did not think that it was particularly > well > written, > it > was both relieving and discouraging to read this article > (see > link > below, > which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague who I > think > also > subscribes this list). The article makes visible the > pain > scholars > go > through when, after so many years of digging and digging > and > digging a > little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to leave it > and > find > some > other > thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer who > was > moving > through > the world with his lovely family, short-term project > after > short-term > project, getting better and better at what he worked on > (apparently > he > was > among the few who had expertise in computer modeling > simulating > some > astronomic events) , and finally having to step out > academia > last > year > to > find something else to do, for his family no longer > could > stand > the > constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be me > soon. > And > that > may > not > be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the story > seems to > be > quite > endemic to academia and may be interesting to some of > you: > > > https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Loses- > When/24 > 2560 > > Alfredo > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > > > > > > > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > > > > > > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > > > From andyb@marxists.org Thu Mar 1 01:49:34 2018 From: andyb@marxists.org (Andy Blunden) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2018 20:49:34 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In-Reply-To: <78D1F34E-8C0B-4551-BBFA-3156D99443F3@iped.uio.no> References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AD5C72@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AEE329@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <1519887325986.67284@iped.uio.no> <68f7b914-1cd6-fbb6-52c5-8eddb56479c1@marxists.org> <78D1F34E-8C0B-4551-BBFA-3156D99443F3@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: <33117cce-e13a-4b89-a21c-6cac8f58cb4f@marxists.org> Well, of course, you have a duty of solidarity which goes beyond academia. Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm On 1/03/2018 8:24 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > Andy, that?s a beautiful statement; and, if that which we together constitute and constitutes us is beyond our control (as the Marx quote Greg brought up states), it makes sense that communist society cannot as such be the goal, but the practice and duty of solidarity. Now, instituting solidarity as a practice in academia, that sounds like a challenging but powerfully driving task, right? > > Alfredo > >> On 1 Mar 2018, at 08:10, Andy Blunden wrote: >> >> In answer to your question, Alfredo, I think the point is >> that "communism is not as such the goal of human development >> ? the form of human society," but is essentially the >> practice and duty of *solidarity*. To be a communist is to >> act on the duty of solidarity to the best of one's ability. >> The day when solidarity is universal, that is communism. >> >> Andy >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> Andy Blunden >> ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm >>> On 1/03/2018 5:55 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: >>> Absolutely Greg; fishing in the morning and criticising after dinner sounds really good to me! Marx's formulation seems totally relevant here, and his sounds like an ecological perspective too, but with subject, with content (where other formulations sound to me very useful, yet somehow content-less, abstract, I guess). But, where does a communist society begin? Or perhaps the question is, when does it begin? And what can current caught-up critical critics do to go fishing in the morning, apart from running races to secure steadily raising salaries in current society? Those well read Marxists could come handy here and give us a hand and help us getting started! >>> Alfredo >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Greg Thompson >>> Sent: 01 March 2018 05:47 >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>> >>> Michael G, >>> Yes, I think you've really hit the nail on the head in pointing to the >>> ecology within which academia sits. Apologies for being a gadfly here and >>> simply pointing to a problem without pointing to a solution. >>> >>> How about we turn back to Marx?: >>> >>> "For as soon as the distribution of labour comes into being, each man has a >>> particular, exclusive sphere of activity, which is forced upon him and from >>> which he cannot escape. He is a hunter, a fisherman, a herdsman, or a >>> critical critic, and must remain so if he does not want to lose his means >>> of livelihood; while in communist society, where nobody has one exclusive >>> sphere of activity but each can become accomplished in any branch he >>> wishes, society regulates the general production and thus makes it possible >>> for me to do one thing today and another tomorrow, to hunt in the morning, >>> fish in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening, criticise after dinner, >>> just as I have a mind, without ever becoming hunter, fisherman, herdsman or >>> critic. This fixation of social activity, this consolidation of what we >>> ourselves produce into an objective power above us, growing out of our >>> control, thwarting our expectations, bringing to naught our calculations, >>> is one of the chief factors in historical development up till now." >>> >>> In Marx's view, we can all be academics (i.e., "critical critics"). >>> What do you think? >>> -greg >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 8:26 PM, Glassman, Michael >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Greg, >>>> >>>> Here is my question. If we go to slow academics how do we determine on the >>>> distribution of resources? If we give people a lot of time to conduct >>>> their work who gets that time? >>>> >>>> I think the scarcity of academic resources is very much a corporate >>>> phenomenon. There really should be enough resources for everybody to pursue >>>> academics as they wish. >>>> >>>> The peer review system and the publish or perish ethos is deeply flawed >>>> and causes a lot of research that shouldn't be done, let alone published. >>>> But if not at least a semblance of a level playing field you get with blind >>>> review then how do you decide who deserves the resources. Is it based on >>>> connections, networks, who you know, where you went to school? Does >>>> cultural capital become that much more important? Is this less democratic >>>> or more democratic? >>>> >>>> To tell you the truth I don't know. The flaw is in the scarcity though, >>>> not the system it seems to me. That we have allowed for a large academic >>>> diaspora to emerge that is forced to teach for little money and no >>>> benefits. Something we all allowed to happen. >>>> >>>> Michael >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >>>> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Greg Thompson >>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2018 9:10 PM >>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>> >>>> (oh, and I didn't mean to be exclusive in pointing to Michael's work, >>>> there are many others on the list who would fit this description!) >>>> >>>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 7:08 PM, Greg Thompson >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Yes, Michael, totally agreed. And I see you as a rare exception to the >>>>> production mill. Whereas you manage to prolifically produce important >>>>> writings, much of what is published is, to my mind, written too >>>>> hurriedly and lacks the quality and importance of publications like >>>> yours. >>>>> -greg >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 5:33 PM, Wolff-Michael Roth < >>>>> wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Greg, not all people will think being publishing machines. Some, like >>>>>> myself, enjoy spending many hours a day writing, analyzing etc. and >>>>>> turning all of this into peer-reviewed articles. >>>>>> >>>>>> I referred to my earliest experience before, when I was told I would >>>>>> not make tenure; and I felt I would not be able to make the 2 >>>>>> articles or so per year in high quality journals. >>>>>> >>>>>> But after an absence from academia, it changed. I started doing >>>>>> research for myself initially, and then wrote it up. From then on, it >>>>>> was different, writing was something I wanted to do, and the more I >>>>>> did, the better I got at it. (Not that the peer-review process would >>>>>> have gotten easier.) >>>>>> >>>>>> I do admit, though, that the system as set up right now then tends to >>>>>> reward people who publish more than others, and in "better" journals. >>>>>> >>>>>> And it depends on context. In the department that I am affiliated >>>>>> with, there are people promoted and tenured without at least a >>>>>> handful of articles in commonly recognized journals. And if you are >>>>>> happy with an average increase in your salary, you don't have to get >>>>>> stressed in our place either. >>>>>> >>>>>> Michael >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 4:04 PM, Greg Thompson >>>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I once toyed with the idea of "slow scholarship" and I remain >>>>>>> entirely convinced that this is a virtue. But once I was entered >>>>>>> into the competition/race of academia, it was all about how fast >>>>>>> you can get to >>>>>> the >>>>>>> finish line (aka "publications"). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Perhaps there is something good about this (assuming that it is >>>>>>> better >>>>>> to >>>>>>> publish something than to not publish anything), but it also has >>>>>>> the nefarious effect of turning scholars into cogs in publishing >>>> factories. >>>>>>> And, continuing in this cynical spirit, I might add that the >>>>>>> Science article about "Slow" actually seems to be making the same >>>>>>> case for >>>>>> speed - >>>>>>> maybe it isn't a sprint, but it is still a race and first one to >>>>>>> the >>>>>> finish >>>>>>> line wins, so you better pick up the pace! Fast! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And re: the man whispering in his ear as he runs: >>>>>>> "We see how in this way the mode of production and the means of >>>>>> production >>>>>>> are continually transformed, revolutionised, *how the division of >>>>>> labour is >>>>>>> necessarily followed by greater divisions of labour, the >>>>>>> application of machinery by still greater application of machinery, >>>>>>> work on a large >>>>>> scale >>>>>>> by work on a still larger scale.* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "That is the law which again and again throws bourgeois production >>>>>>> out >>>>>> of >>>>>>> its old course and which compels capital to intensify the >>>>>>> productive >>>>>> forces >>>>>>> of labour, *because *it has intensified them, it, the law which >>>>>>> gives capital no rest and continually whispers in its ear: 'Go on! Go >>>> on!'" >>>>>>> (Marx - Wage Labour and Capital). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -greg? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 3:11 PM, Wolff-Michael Roth < >>>>>>> wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>> this article "In praise of slow" appears to be fitting the >>>> discussion. >>>>>>> The >>>>>>>> author uses a nice analogy with running. Michael >>>>>>>> http://science.sciencemag.org/content/359/6375/602 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 8:40 AM, Huw Lloyd >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> "Assessing their abilities and accomplishments in this regard >>>>>>>>> was a >>>>>>>> matter >>>>>>>>> of judgment and so could not be quantified; it could be >>>>>>>>> exercised >>>>>> only >>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>> those capable of it." >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I would say, "cannot be quantified simply". >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>> Huw >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 26 February 2018 at 15:05, Greg Thompson < >>>>>> greg.a.thompson@gmail.com >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> And here is a nice article that speaks to the bureaucratic >>>>>>>>>> logic >>>>>>> that I >>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>> mentioning (the author refers to "the all-administrative >>>>>>> institution"): >>>>>>>>>> https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/whose-university-is-it- >>>>>> anyway/#! >>>>>>>>>> A quote from it: >>>>>>>>>> "The revolution is over and the administrators have won. But >>>>>>>>>> the persistence of traditional structures and language has >>>>>>>>>> led some to >>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>> that the fight over the institution is now just beginning. >>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>> is a >>>>>>>>>> mistake. As with most revolutions, open conflict occurs only >>>>>>>>>> after >>>>>>> real >>>>>>>>>> power has already changed hands." >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -greg >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 6:27 PM, Martin Packer < >>>>>> mpacker@cantab.net> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On STEM and social science: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> <>>>>>>>>>> doctors-revolt-bernard-lown.html?action=click&pgtype= >>>>>>>>>>> Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col- >>>>>>>>>>> left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav= >>>>>>>>>>> opinion-c-col-left-region >>>>>>>>>> 02/24/opinion/sunday/doctors-revolt-bernard-lown.html? >>>>>>>>>>> action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading& >>>>>>>>>>> module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c-col- >>>>>>>>>>> left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On measures of learning: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> - measure-learning-outcomes.html?action=click&pgtype= >>>>>>>>>>> Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col- >>>>>>>>>>> left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav= >>>>>>>>>>> opinion-c-col-left-region >>>>>>>>>> 02/23/opinion/sunday/colleges-measure-learning-outcomes. >>>>>>>>>>> html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story- >>>>>>>>>>> heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c- >>>>>>>>>>> col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Martin >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 25, 2018, at 8:15 PM, Glassman, Michael < >>>>>>>> glassman.13@osu.edu> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Huw, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps the opposite is also true though. STEM >>>>>>>>>>>> researchers >>>>>> can >>>>>>>>> better >>>>>>>>>>> understand what they are doing if they are well versed in >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>> social >>>>>>>>>>> sciences. Understand the history and the meaning of what >>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>> are >>>>>>>> doing >>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>> they do not act as androids (sorry, been watching the >>>>>>>>>>> Aliens >>>>>>> trilogy >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> late). Perhaps we made the wrong calculation. We have lost >>>>>> control >>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> our >>>>>>>>>>> great STEM innovations because the people using them don't >>>>>>> understand >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> social webs that they create. So we have people pushing >>>>>>>>>>> xMOOCs >>>>>>>>> (whatever >>>>>>>>>>> happened to MOOCs anyway) as saving education (and also a >>>>>> bundle so >>>>>>>>>>> everybody gets tax cuts, wheeee!), saying that they are >>>>>>>>>>> good >>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>> can reach many, the proverbial long tail, with great >>>>>>>>>>> education >>>>>>>>> (Harvard, >>>>>>>>>>> Stanford). Yet nobody asks the question, "Why is this a >>>>>>>>>>> good >>>>>>> thing." >>>>>>>>>> There >>>>>>>>>>> really isn't much supporting this in earlier distance >>>> education. >>>>>>>> There >>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>> actually more evidence of how dangerous it is >>>>>>>>>>> (Participatory >>>>>> Action >>>>>>>>>>> Research). >>>>>>>>>>>> Michael >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >>>>>>>>>>> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Huw Lloyd >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2018 7:32 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I would ask, what makes you think you have an ecology (or >>>>>> niche)? >>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>>> seems that the notion of topologically derived ecologies is >>>>>> still >>>>>>>>> bandied >>>>>>>>>>> about since Bronfenbrenner (1977), though I do not know >>>>>>>>>>> whether >>>>>> he >>>>>>>>>> managed >>>>>>>>>>> to refine (overhaul and improve) his notions into something >>>>>>>> integrated >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> agent-centric. One does not provide an ecology or an >>>>>> environment. >>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>>> environment is different for everyone, a simple >>>>>>>>>>> consideration >>>>>> of a >>>>>>>>>>> rock-face or climbing wall is sufficient to grasp this -- >>>>>>>>>>> the so >>>>>>>> called >>>>>>>>>>> environment (the rock face) is different to each climber, >>>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>> environment >>>>>>>>>>> is that which is appropriate to them which includes >>>>>>>>>>> contexts >>>>>> well >>>>>>>>> beyond >>>>>>>>>>> what is established in an institution. From what I can >>>>>>>>>>> gauge, >>>>>>>>>> historically, >>>>>>>>>>> slack was deliberately introduced into courses to afford >>>>>> personal >>>>>>>>>> enquiry. >>>>>>>>>>>> There was the basic work and then there was the genuine >>>>>> enquiry. >>>>>>>> Who >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>> their right mind wants to write an exam essay on a question >>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>> expected to pre-write and repeat by memory? Why would >>>>>>>>>>> someone >>>>>> who >>>>>>>>> enjoys >>>>>>>>>>> thinking about their subject want to go through that kind >>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> impoverished >>>>>>>>>>> tedium? These systems are obviously geared for "delivery". >>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps the biggest cultural shift can be achieved >>>>>>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>>> instituting >>>>>>>>>>> joint and personal enquiry. A teacher that stands before >>>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>> class >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> delivers their subject inevitably obscures and obstructs >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>> process >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> enquiry, although many students will have learnt from a >>>>>>>>>>> young >>>>>> age >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>> is what to expect and demand. Engagement with genuine >>>>>>>>>>> problems >>>>>>> rather >>>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>>>> what students are expected to do is the basic orientational >>>>>> issue. >>>>>>>>>> Dispose >>>>>>>>>>> of grades, then anyone who isn't interested is free to go >>>> home. >>>>>>>>>>>> The advance of STEM research is probably a good thing for >>>>>> social >>>>>>>>>> science. >>>>>>>>>>>> For productive work, social science must understand the >>>>>> structure >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> STEM based work, in addition to bureaucratic processes and >>>>>>>>> circumstances >>>>>>>>>>> for creative work. Sticking one's head in the sand over >>>>>> STEM-like >>>>>>>>>> research >>>>>>>>>>> serves merely to perpetuate the impoverished side of social >>>>>>> science. >>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>>> reminds me of the scene in Pirsig's Zen and the Art of >>>>>> Motorcycle >>>>>>>>>>> Maintenance in which a couple lack the wherewithal to fix a >>>>>>> dripping >>>>>>>>>> faucet >>>>>>>>>>> that gives them grief and instead choose to ignore it. >>>>>>>>>>> Though it >>>>>>> was >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> very >>>>>>>>>>> long time ago, Pirsig's book may have contributed to my >>>>>>> understanding >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> quality and might be thought of as an exploration of some >>>>>>>>>>> social >>>>>>>> issues >>>>>>>>>>> pertaining to technical enterprises. Another good text to >>>>>>> appreciate >>>>>>>>>>> quality more directly, probably outside the formal area of >>>>>> STEM, is >>>>>>>>>>> Alshuller's Innovation Algorithm. >>>>>>>>>>>> Warm regards to you Henry, Greg, Alfredo. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>>>>> Huw >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 25 February 2018 at 22:39, Alfredo Jornet Gil < >>>>>>>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Greg, Huw, and others, I do often get worried that in >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>> formals >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> informal meetings at our department (department of >>>>>> education), >>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations tend to focus on the "micro" developments >>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>> mention (students, grades, getting a next grant, getting >>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> paper >>>>>>>>>>>>> published, making sure you've got enough) most of the >>>>>>>>>>>>> time, >>>>>> and >>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>>>> much on what society we would like to have, and how our >>>>>>>> institution >>>>>>>>>>>>> could/should contribute to that. I do not have any >>>>>> suggestions >>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> type of studies that you ask about?dealing with how >>>>>> ecologies of >>>>>>>>>>>>> scholarship in academia lead to given developmental >>>>>>> dynamics?other >>>>>>>>>>>>> than the classical studies in STS, like Latour & >>>>>>>>>>>>> Woolgar's on laboratory life, or S. L. Star's. But when >>>>>>>>>>>>> I look forward at >>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>> lies >>>>>>>>>>>>> between me (or anyone in my institution) and a change in >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>> way >>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>>> institution has impact in the life of many, what I see >>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>> lots >>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>> routines, habits, documents, and paperwork entangled in >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> middle, >>>>>>>>>>>>> such that the idea "mediation all the way through" makes >>>>>>>>>>>>> all >>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> sense. And seeing things that way (from the ecological >>>>>>>> perspective), >>>>>>>>>>>>> makes the possibility of changing things to look >>>>>>>>>>>>> actually >>>>>>>> feasible, >>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>> more accurately perhaps, imagine-able. I'd like to >>>>>>>>>>>>> continue >>>>>>> being >>>>>>>>> part >>>>>>>>>>>>> of the ecology to be able to be also be part of its >>>>>>>>>>>>> changing >>>>>>> it. I >>>>>>>>>>>>> hope others will bring more specific literature to bear. >>>>>>>>>>>>> I am >>>>>>>>> already >>>>>>>>>>> downloading some of Peter Sloterdijk's to read. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Alfredo >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>> on behalf of Greg >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thompson >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: 24 February 2018 17:45 >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I appreciate Huw's concern about academia and the push >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>> orient >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>> broader and more systemic concern with "development". I >>>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>> this is what institutions of higher education are >>>>>>>>>>>>> supposed to >>>>>>>> have, >>>>>>>>>>>>> right? - at the very least a concern for the development >>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> individual >>>>>>>>>>>>> "students", but also, one would hope, a concern for >>>>>>> "development" >>>>>>>>> at a >>>>>>>>>>>>> longer timescale (e.g., how to be a better society, a >>>>>>>>>>>>> better >>>>>>>> world). >>>>>>>>>>>>> They certainly tout these in their promo materials. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> And yet, in practice, these institutions often fall back >>>>>>>>>>>>> on bureaucratic or economic logics. Bureaucratic logic >>>>>>>>>>>>> goes >>>>>>> something >>>>>>>>>>>>> like, "just publish (in "good" (i.e., high impact >>>>>>>>>>>>> factor) >>>>>>>> journals), >>>>>>>>>>>>> who cares what you publish so long as we can count it to >>>>>>> determine >>>>>>>>> its >>>>>>>>>>> (and your) 'value'(!)". >>>>>>>>>>>>> As for the economic logic, I was just talking with Rick >>>>>> Shweder >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> other day about this issue and he expressed the concern >>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> push >>>>>>>>>>>>> towards STEM education at the expense of all else and >>>>>>>>>>>>> the way >>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>> STEM buildings are slowly starting to take over his >>>>>>>>>>>>> campus >>>>>> (the >>>>>>>>>>>>> University of Chicago - a place that was long held to be >>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>> hold >>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>> liberal arts education - apparently they now have an >>>>>> engineering >>>>>>>>>>>>> program). He suggested that this is tied to an early >>>>>>>>>>>>> 80's >>>>>> court >>>>>>>>>>>>> decision that gave universities ownership of patents >>>>>> developed >>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>>> campuses. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To my mind, this calls to mind a concern with ecologies >>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> development >>>>>>>>>>>>> (across the shorter and longer timescales). What are the >>>>>>> ecologies >>>>>>>>>>>>> (social, economic, political, etc.) within which >>>>>>>>>>>>> development >>>>>> (at >>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>>>>>> various >>>>>>>>>>>>> timescales) occurs in our world today? This is really a >>>>>> question >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>> what is possible and/or what is likely with regard to >>>>>> becoming. >>>>>>>> What >>>>>>>>>>>>> are the forms of life and forms of development that are >>>>>>>> sustainable >>>>>>>>>>>>> given the larger ecologies in which that development >>>> happens? >>>>>>>>>>>>> And for thinking through that problem, I've had a hard >>>>>>>>>>>>> time >>>>>>>> thinking >>>>>>>>>>>>> of anyone who has better thought through this problem >>>>>>>>>>>>> than >>>>>> Marx >>>>>>> - >>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>> the longer timescale of development, that is (Vygotsky >>>>>> would, of >>>>>>>>>>>>> course, be better at thinking through development at the >>>>>> shorter >>>>>>>>>>>>> timescale of ontogeny). >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd love to hear others' thoughts on those who have >>>>>>>>>>>>> studied >>>>>>>>> activities >>>>>>>>>>>>> that can begin to shed light on these ecologies of >>>>>> development >>>>>>>>>>>>> (particularly at the longer timescale). Any >>>>>>> thoughts/suggestions? >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> would imagine this work considering various kinds of >>>>>>> institutions >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>> run the gamut - from venture capitalist firms to >>>>>>>>>>>>> non-profits >>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> governmental institutions to institutions of higher >>>>>> education. I >>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>>>>>> presume that each of these kinds of institutions would >>>>>>>>>>>>> have a >>>>>>>> local >>>>>>>>>>>>> ecology within which they work, but I am tempted to >>>>>>>>>>>>> imagine >>>>>> some >>>>>>>>> kind >>>>>>>>>>>>> of global meta-ecology (perhaps Marx's "global >>>>>>>>>>>>> capitalism"?) within which each of these local ecologies >>>>>>> operates. >>>>>>>>> I'd >>>>>>>>>>>>> be curious about actual research that has been done >>>>>> documenting >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> nature of these ecologies - e.g., what kinds of >>>>>>>>>>>>> resources are available to be exploited? What kinds of >>>>>>>>>>>>> possibilities are >>>>>> there >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> different forms of life? What institutional organisms >>>>>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>> thrive? >>>>>>>>>>>>> Which are dying off? (and just to be clear, I am >>>>>>>>>>>>> intending a biological/evolutionary nature of the >>>> metaphor). >>>>>>>>>>>>> It seems that this kind of work would be most likely to >>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>> been >>>>>>>>> done >>>>>>>>>>>>> by folks in the CHAT world, but perhaps the scale (of >>>>>>>>>>>>> time >>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> space) >>>>>>>>>>>>> is a bit beyond the scales that CHAT folks prefer to >>>>>> consider? >>>>>>>>>>>>> (I should add that I've recently discovered the work of >>>>>>>>>>>>> Peter Sloterdijk's Bubbles trilogy and am curious if >>>>>>>>>>>>> anyone has any >>>>>>>>> thoughts >>>>>>>>>>>>> on the value of his approach - it seems to fit very well >>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>> Marx >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> with CHAT/Vygotsky, my only initial concern was that he >>>>>> seems to >>>>>>>>> fly a >>>>>>>>>>>>> little fast and loose with pyschoanalytics at times - >>>>>>>>>>>>> not a >>>>>>>> serious >>>>>>>>>>>>> problem, but perhaps in a few places). >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sympathetically, >>>>>>>>>>>>> greg >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 1:57 PM, Huw Lloyd < >>>>>>>>> huw.softdesigns@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, I would say there is more to it than simply >>>>>>>> transfer-ability, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> which might be thought of as a good bureaucratic >>>>>> requirement. >>>>>>>>> Really >>>>>>>>>>>>>> what is required is genuine development -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> reorganisation of >>>>>>>>> thought >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> learning. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is what is significant at a personal level, which >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>> also >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> basis >>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> insights and creative work (i.e. personal knowledge >>>>>>>>>>>>>> rather >>>>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>>>> second >>>>>>>>>>>>> hand >>>>>>>>>>>>>> knowledge). The researcher in the blog article does not >>>>>> evince >>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (with allusions to the nature of her training). There >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is the >>>>>>>>> history >>>>>>>>>>>>>> school children learn, which largely concerns the use >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>> memory, >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> then there >>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the history of conditions, relations and processes, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>> concerns >>>>>>>>>>>>>> protracted thought. This developmental emphasis is what >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> lacking >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in institutions which is why I have frequently pointed >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>> out. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> This principle apples to "secure" jobs too. The jobs I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>> walked >>>>>>>>>>>>>> away from have been due to the overly narrow scope, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> where I >>>>>>> felt >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> was necessary to be far more ambitious to achieve >>>>>>>>>>>>>> modest satisfaction, an ambition which included >>>>>>>>>>>>>> achieving the wider >>>>>>>> scope >>>>>>>>>>>>>> within the norms established. Similar issues pertain to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> my peripheral engagement with academia. Twenty years >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ago, after completing a masters in cognitive >>>>>>>>>>>>> science >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (a good year), I decided against pursuing any further >>>>>>>>>>>>>> formal education >>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>> any immediacy due to my sense that what I was >>>>>>>>>>>>>> encountering >>>>>> in >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> subject (and related subjects) was fundamentally wrong >>>>>>>>>>>>>> or inadequate, but I couldn't quite discern what that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> was. So, >>>>>> for >>>>>>>> me, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I had no interest in furthering the academic course at >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>> time, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> because I was concerned with understanding, doing, >>>>>> discovering >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> development, not being a "good researcher". I was and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> am uninterested in the trappings of academia, what it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> looks >>>>>> like >>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the outside (with dubious ethics of promoting those in >>>>>> society >>>>>>>> who >>>>>>>>>>>>>> least need it) -- hence I am not too bothered about >>>>>>>>>>>>>> where >>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> experiences come from. After all, if you want sound >>>>>> knowledge >>>>>>>> then >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it should be validated in places where it counts (in >>>>>> action), >>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>> an echo chamber of words. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From my (developmental) perspective academia appears >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be chockfull of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> unproductive thinking. The lack of systems >>>>>>>>>>>>>> understanding in >>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> social sciences (which has been pointed out by key >>>>>>>>>>>>>> persons >>>>>> for >>>>>>>> two >>>>>>>>>>>>>> generations) >>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> find to be quite incredible. This, as far as I can see, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> panacea to the stasis and lethargy that I have seen in >>>>>> certain >>>>>>>>>>>>>> institutions, where there are people in secure jobs >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with no >>>>>>>>> interest >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in revitalising an institution (perhaps the same people >>>>>>>>>>>>>> who >>>>>>> rely >>>>>>>>>>>>>> upon their status for authority). In the UK, in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> social >>>>>>>>> sciences, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the whole social science infrastructure is built upon a >>>>>> notion >>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> quality that is ignorant of systems -- that is the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> degree to >>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>>>>>>> unproductive thinking has >>>>>>>>>>>>> penetrated >>>>>>>>>>>>>> social science. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yet there is much more to it still. Recently I have >>>>>>>>>>>>>> also >>>>>> come >>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> surprising awareness that developmental prerogatives >>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>> rather >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> significant amount in common with spiritual ones. So I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>> offer >>>>>>>>>>>>> broader >>>>>>>>>>>>>> advice than Michael's of staying clear of hardship. It >>>>>>>>>>>>>> may >>>>>> be >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "nadir" something surprising may be discovered. For >>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyone >>>>>>> with a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> passion "job security" is not a goal, at best it is a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> means >>>>>> to >>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ends, at worst >>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is an obstacle. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Over and out. :) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Huw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 20 February 2018 at 07:12, Alfredo Jornet Gil >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Huw, Helena, and all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thanks to you both for taking the discussion where I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>> hoping >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> go >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> further: first, towards a reflection on the nature of >>>>>> training >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> academic scholars go through as it concerns the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> classical >>>>>>>> problem >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of learning "transfer"; and then, as it regards the >>>>>> question >>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> academic freedom >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (which >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actually may be the same question, just taken in a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> language >>>>>>> more >>>>>>>>>>>>> adequate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to an ecological understanding of the problem). This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> absolutely >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an individual problem. And, on that matter, I should >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>> clear >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> am a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> privileged in a privileged land, where, despite all >>>>>>> uncertainty >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> pains >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that my family have gone and go through, I have today >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>> good >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> background >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> network, and probably better prospects than the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> majority of >>>>>>>> junior >>>>>>>>>>>>>> scholars >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out there. Not that I have earned this privilege for >>>>>> nothing: >>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>> migrant >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> history and that of my family is all connected to an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> effort >>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quest >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get better chances of academic opportunity in this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> market >>>>>>> Helena >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> talks about. But my personal story, as that of the >>>>>> historian >>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the article shared or of my French astronomer friend, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>> relevant >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in as far as >>>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> help us reflect on just those questions. They really >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also >>>>>> make >>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>>>>>> wonder >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the sense of the term "academic freedom", for the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> latter >>>>>>> term >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cannot >>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about doing whatever research you want to do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> independently >>>>>> of >>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>>>>>> market >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conditions and societal needs and economy. We may then >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pose >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> questions, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what type of "freedom" is the "freedom" current >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> systems (of incentives, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ISI lists) afford, and what type of system could allow >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> another >>>>>>>>>>>>>> meaning >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the term "freedom"? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not to get too abstract, I guess that those >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reflections >>>>>> may be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> best pondered along concrete cases, if people is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> willing to >>>>>>> take >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on Helena's suggestion to share particular stories of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all >>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> goes into getting >>>>>>>>>>>>> into >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> secured academic job positions, or else, of pursuing >>>>>>>> (in)dependent >>>>>>>>>>>>>> careers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outside/at the borders of/across academia. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alfredo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> on behalf of Helena Worthen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: 19 February 2018 19:19 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In the interests of widening the discussion: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I?ve described my work history before on this list ? >>>>>>> basically, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> moving from teaching literature and writing (with >>>>>> stopovers in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> landscape architecture and theater production) to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> concern >>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the working conditions of teachers, especially >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> academics in >>>>>>>> higher >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> education, the >>>>>>>>>>>>> 75% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who are contingent/adjuncts. The concern is both for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>>>>> employed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this way and for the integrity of the institutions >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>> employ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them. I eventually engaged this concern by working >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with and >>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the labor >>>>>>>>>>>>>> movement, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ending up first working for the garment/apparel >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> workers >>>>>> union >>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Philadelphia and then at the Labor Educaiton Program >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>> the U >>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Illinois, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from which I retired in 2010. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The new twist to this story is about the employment of >>>>>>> academics >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on short-term contracts in Viet Nam, under conditions >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>> seem >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be increasingly frequent in the ?developing? world, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where >>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> market for education is booming. University World News >>>>>>>> http://www >>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> universityworldnews.com/ tracks this phenomenon and >>>>>> includes >>>>>>>>>>>>> occasinal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> critical articles about the competition for rankings. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The university >>>>>>>>>>>>>> where >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my husband and I have been teaching on and off since >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2015, >>>>>> Ton >>>>>>>> Duc >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thang >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ho Chi Minh City, recruits professors from all over >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>> world >>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a promise of $2,000 per month US ? but extending their >>>>>>> contracts >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> depends >>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> producing articles published in journals on the ISI >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list; >>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nature of this list is worth taking a look at. The >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impact >>>>>> of >>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice on the culture and student body is not all bad. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My point here is to place the issue of the challenge >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>> getting >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tenure-track job in a global context. This is not just >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an individual problem. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I?m willing to go further down this line of discussion. >>>>>>> However, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> academics >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are often reluctant to reveal and compare their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> working >>>>>>>> conditions >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ?academic? discussion list. Maybe by putting up the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> issue >>>>>> of >>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>>>>> academic >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> freedom requires, and how these requirements fare in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>> global >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> market >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> higher education, we can shed the embarassment of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> revealing information about our own experiences with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> getting the >>>>>> brass >>>>>>>> ring >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of a full-time, secure job. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let?s see if anyone picks up on this. Maybe I?m being >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> too >>>>>>> vague. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Helena Worthen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com Berkeley, CA 94707 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 510-828-2745 Blog US/ Viet Nam: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> skype: helena.worthen1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 19, 2018, at 9:19 AM, Huw Lloyd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The article describes accumulating large amounts of >>>>>> knowledge >>>>>>>>>>>>>> pertaining >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> history, which (the author maintains) cannot be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turned to >>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> endeavours. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This, no doubt, is true for her. If, however, her >>>>>> approach to >>>>>>>>>>>>> studying >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> history had been systemic, then there would have been >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> powerful >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> form >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> re-application and continuity in any work that was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turned >>>>>> to. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same can be said for "phd/postdoc training". If it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cannot >>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reused >>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> isn't enabling, what, substantively, is it? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Huw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 18 February 2018 at 18:32, Alfredo Jornet Gil < >>>>>>>>>>>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Really inspiring words and work, Francine. I do see >>>>>>> community >>>>>>>>>>>>> colleges >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many other educational settings apart from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> universities >>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> valuable >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and exciting opportunities; the PhD and following >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> postdoc >>>>>>> etc >>>>>>>>>>>>> training >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> universities, however, tend to be very much targeted >>>>>>> towards a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> very >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> narrow >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spectrum of positions, or at least that's been my >>>>>>> experience. >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>>>>>>>> very >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happy that this thread may widen that scope and make >>>>>> visible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> paths. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And as Mike suggested, it would be very interesting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>> hear >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>>>>> several >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others who have followed distinct trajectories apart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phd-postdoc-assist/assoc. prof-prof, and yet made a >>>>>> career >>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> touch >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> most of what was developed in the junior (phd and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few >>>>>> later) >>>>>>>>>> years. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alfredo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> edu> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on behalf of Larry Smolucha >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: 18 February 2018 06:20 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Message from Francine Smolucha on a scholar's life >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> academia >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alfredo, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are other jobs that pay well (sometimes with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tenure >>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> early retirement benefits) - besides professorships >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>> four >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> year colleges >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> universities. Administrative and support staff >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> positions >>>>>>> pay >>>>>>>>>> well. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> And >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't overlook community colleges, technical >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> colleges, >>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> public >>>>>>>>>>>>>> grade >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> schools and high schools. There is also the private >>>>>> sector >>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> government >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jobs. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As a 'low status' community college professor, I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> managed >>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> translate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Vygotsky's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> overlooked writings on creativity (back in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1980's) >>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> introduced >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theory of creativity to academia. I got early >>>>>> retirement at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> age 53 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> continue to write and publish. While my Ph.D from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the University of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chicago >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gave me academic bona fides, it was the quality of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the scholarly >>>>>>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ultimately mattered. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was always inspired by the harsh circumstances of >>>>>>> Vygotsky's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> life >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how he still kept on writing. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [When I felt really sorry for myself, I would >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actually >>>>>> say >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Well at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> least >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not coughing up blood"] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So many of his works were not published in his >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lifetime, >>>>>> he >>>>>>>> did >>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> collect a royalties check, and they say he was >>>>>> depressed >>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> end >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his life. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I leave you with this quote from an ancient Sufi >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mystic - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You can't always get what you want but you can get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> edu> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on behalf of mike cole >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:07 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yours is a quandary shared by your generation, Alfredo. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Being allowed to teach and conduct research in a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quality institution >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great privilege and an increasingly rarer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possibility. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are several people on this list who have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> organized >>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lives >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> independent scholars while staying connected to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> core institutions of disciplinary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> training. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It might be nice to hear the variety out there. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It appears pretty certain that the situation is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going to >>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worse before/if it gets better. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What can the collective experience of xmca come up >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> useful to the many >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of you caught in this meat grinder? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mike >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good luck then, Wagner! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit < >>>>>> wagner.schmit@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: 18 February 2018 01:07 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This just hit me in the spot... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wagner >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2018 9:48 PM, "Alfredo Jornet Gil" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have not been able to contribute to this list as >>>>>> much as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd >>>>>>>>>>>>> like >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lately, among other things, because I need to find >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>> job, >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make sure that I have checked all those boxes that >>>>>>> selection >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> committees >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will check (enough first-authored publications? in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good enough >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> journals? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> acquiring >>>>>>>>>>>>>> funds? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than all others candidates? and more than >>>>>>>>>>>>>> favoured-for-whatever-other- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these >>>>>> weeks >>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fill >>>>>>>>>>>>> up >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, although I did not think that it was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> particularly >>>>>>> well >>>>>>>>>>>>> written, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was both relieving and discouraging to read this >>>>>> article >>>>>>>> (see >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> link >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> below, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who >>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> subscribes this list). The article makes visible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>> pain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> scholars >>>>>>>>>>>>>> go >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> through when, after so many years of digging and >>>>>> digging >>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> digging a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leave it >>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find >>>>>>>>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who >>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> moving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the world with his lovely family, short-term >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> project >>>>>> after >>>>>>>>>>>>>> short-term >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> project, getting better and better at what he >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worked on >>>>>>>>>>>>> (apparently >>>>>>>>>>>>>> he >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> among the few who had expertise in computer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> modeling simulating >>>>>>>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> astronomic events) , and finally having to step >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>> academia >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> last >>>>>>>>>>>>>> year >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find something else to do, for his family no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> longer >>>>>> could >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stand >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>> soon. >>>>>>>> And >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> may >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the >>>>>> story >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems to >>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> endemic to academia and may be interesting to some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>> you: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Lo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ses- >>>>>>>> When/24 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2560 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alfredo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Assistant Professor >>>>>>>>>>>>> Department of Anthropology >>>>>>>>>>>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University >>>>>>>>>>>>> Provo, UT 84602 >>>>>>>>>>>>> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>>>>>>>>> Assistant Professor >>>>>>>>>> Department of Anthropology >>>>>>>>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >>>>>>>>>> Brigham Young University >>>>>>>>>> Provo, UT 84602 >>>>>>>>>> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu >>>>>>>>>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>>>>>> Assistant Professor >>>>>>> Department of Anthropology >>>>>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >>>>>>> Brigham Young University >>>>>>> Provo, UT 84602 >>>>>>> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu >>>>>>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>>>> Assistant Professor >>>>> Department of Anthropology >>>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >>>>> Brigham Young University >>>>> Provo, UT 84602 >>>>> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu >>>>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>>> Assistant Professor >>>> Department of Anthropology >>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >>>> Brigham Young University >>>> Provo, UT 84602 >>>> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu >>>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>> Assistant Professor >>> Department of Anthropology >>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >>> Brigham Young University >>> Provo, UT 84602 >>> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu >>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >>> From Peg.Griffin@att.net Thu Mar 1 05:24:18 2018 From: Peg.Griffin@att.net (Peg Griffin) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2018 08:24:18 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In-Reply-To: <33117cce-e13a-4b89-a21c-6cac8f58cb4f@marxists.org> References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AD5C72@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AEE329@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <1519887325986.67284@iped.uio.no> <68f7b914-1cd6-fbb6-52c5-8eddb56479c1@marxists.org> <78D1F34E-8C0B-4551-BBFA-3156D99443F3@iped.uio.no> <33117cce-e13a-4b89-a21c-6cac8f58cb4f@marxists.org> Message-ID: <002e01d3b160$9b345030$d19cf090$@att.net> Hi, Andy, I've been lurking a bit at the edges of the days and was glad to see your comment. I wanted to see if you've come across two concepts (maybe two and a half) that are developing and being exercised under the conditions here -- by here I mean across the US at the minimum. The two "intersectionality," and "allyship," and the half is "rising." "Intersectionality" was well critiqued and developed during the formation of the Women's March(es) and continues to have bouts of discussion, but the main thing is doing it. To define it, I'd probably say, "Any organized group in the (what is sometimes called the) "resisterhood" collaborates and cooperates and does no harm to any other group in the resisterhood." Practically it means packing the room/rally, sharing bird-dogging shifts/places, helping with permits, doing jail support, marching, marshalling, spreading the word about actions and resources as they become available. There isn't a hierarchical relation among the sections; the inter-sections are embodied in any member of a group who is, of course, in more than one section and that individual may prioritize one section over another at any given time. "Allyship" (not yet in spell checker) is related to intersections but a tad different. It is built on the idea that any given group has people who are on the front line (and who have most weight in decisions) and others who may be front line in some other group but are allies in the group in question. There is ally training for long term involvement and shorter ones for specific actions. The training to be an allyis crucial and tough when the intersecting spreads over well-developed chasms in the society like race, gender, economic power/privilege. Now about "rising" -- this is a word used naming or renaming groups. I first found it in the name of a nationwide group of indigenous peoples who nowadays act against drilling and pipelines and the economic institutions that finance them and act for clean water, air, lands, and social-cultural respect and rights. But it is in the names of other groups, including a grass roots group that provides trainings for grass roots organizers! I think main connotations are that the group with "rising" in its name is well-rooted and still emerging/developing/shaping itself. So far, it hasn't emerged as a super category. BTW, Catholic nuns got arrested in a Senate Office Building (notice what the initials can also signify) yesterday in a rotunda as they were being allies of DACA recipients and praying with their rosaries. These nuns were not the "nuns on a bus" who have been acting up for a few years now but from more central nunneries and the action was sponsored by Catholic Charities -- about as mainstream as it gets! -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2018 4:50 AM To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship Well, of course, you have a duty of solidarity which goes beyond academia. Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm On 1/03/2018 8:24 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > Andy, that?s a beautiful statement; and, if that which we together constitute and constitutes us is beyond our control (as the Marx quote Greg brought up states), it makes sense that communist society cannot as such be the goal, but the practice and duty of solidarity. Now, instituting solidarity as a practice in academia, that sounds like a challenging but powerfully driving task, right? > > Alfredo > >> On 1 Mar 2018, at 08:10, Andy Blunden wrote: >> >> In answer to your question, Alfredo, I think the point is >> that "communism is not as such the goal of human development >> ? the form of human society," but is essentially the >> practice and duty of *solidarity*. To be a communist is to >> act on the duty of solidarity to the best of one's ability. >> The day when solidarity is universal, that is communism. >> >> Andy >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> Andy Blunden >> ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm >>> On 1/03/2018 5:55 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: >>> Absolutely Greg; fishing in the morning and criticising after dinner sounds really good to me! Marx's formulation seems totally relevant here, and his sounds like an ecological perspective too, but with subject, with content (where other formulations sound to me very useful, yet somehow content-less, abstract, I guess). But, where does a communist society begin? Or perhaps the question is, when does it begin? And what can current caught-up critical critics do to go fishing in the morning, apart from running races to secure steadily raising salaries in current society? Those well read Marxists could come handy here and give us a hand and help us getting started! >>> Alfredo >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Greg Thompson >>> Sent: 01 March 2018 05:47 >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>> >>> Michael G, >>> Yes, I think you've really hit the nail on the head in pointing to the >>> ecology within which academia sits. Apologies for being a gadfly here and >>> simply pointing to a problem without pointing to a solution. >>> >>> How about we turn back to Marx?: >>> >>> "For as soon as the distribution of labour comes into being, each man has a >>> particular, exclusive sphere of activity, which is forced upon him and from >>> which he cannot escape. He is a hunter, a fisherman, a herdsman, or a >>> critical critic, and must remain so if he does not want to lose his means >>> of livelihood; while in communist society, where nobody has one exclusive >>> sphere of activity but each can become accomplished in any branch he >>> wishes, society regulates the general production and thus makes it possible >>> for me to do one thing today and another tomorrow, to hunt in the morning, >>> fish in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening, criticise after dinner, >>> just as I have a mind, without ever becoming hunter, fisherman, herdsman or >>> critic. This fixation of social activity, this consolidation of what we >>> ourselves produce into an objective power above us, growing out of our >>> control, thwarting our expectations, bringing to naught our calculations, >>> is one of the chief factors in historical development up till now." >>> >>> In Marx's view, we can all be academics (i.e., "critical critics"). >>> What do you think? >>> -greg >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 8:26 PM, Glassman, Michael >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Greg, >>>> >>>> Here is my question. If we go to slow academics how do we determine on the >>>> distribution of resources? If we give people a lot of time to conduct >>>> their work who gets that time? >>>> >>>> I think the scarcity of academic resources is very much a corporate >>>> phenomenon. There really should be enough resources for everybody to pursue >>>> academics as they wish. >>>> >>>> The peer review system and the publish or perish ethos is deeply flawed >>>> and causes a lot of research that shouldn't be done, let alone published. >>>> But if not at least a semblance of a level playing field you get with blind >>>> review then how do you decide who deserves the resources. Is it based on >>>> connections, networks, who you know, where you went to school? Does >>>> cultural capital become that much more important? Is this less democratic >>>> or more democratic? >>>> >>>> To tell you the truth I don't know. The flaw is in the scarcity though, >>>> not the system it seems to me. That we have allowed for a large academic >>>> diaspora to emerge that is forced to teach for little money and no >>>> benefits. Something we all allowed to happen. >>>> >>>> Michael >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >>>> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Greg Thompson >>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2018 9:10 PM >>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>> >>>> (oh, and I didn't mean to be exclusive in pointing to Michael's work, >>>> there are many others on the list who would fit this description!) >>>> >>>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 7:08 PM, Greg Thompson >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Yes, Michael, totally agreed. And I see you as a rare exception to the >>>>> production mill. Whereas you manage to prolifically produce important >>>>> writings, much of what is published is, to my mind, written too >>>>> hurriedly and lacks the quality and importance of publications like >>>> yours. >>>>> -greg >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 5:33 PM, Wolff-Michael Roth < >>>>> wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Greg, not all people will think being publishing machines. Some, like >>>>>> myself, enjoy spending many hours a day writing, analyzing etc. and >>>>>> turning all of this into peer-reviewed articles. >>>>>> >>>>>> I referred to my earliest experience before, when I was told I would >>>>>> not make tenure; and I felt I would not be able to make the 2 >>>>>> articles or so per year in high quality journals. >>>>>> >>>>>> But after an absence from academia, it changed. I started doing >>>>>> research for myself initially, and then wrote it up. From then on, it >>>>>> was different, writing was something I wanted to do, and the more I >>>>>> did, the better I got at it. (Not that the peer-review process would >>>>>> have gotten easier.) >>>>>> >>>>>> I do admit, though, that the system as set up right now then tends to >>>>>> reward people who publish more than others, and in "better" journals. >>>>>> >>>>>> And it depends on context. In the department that I am affiliated >>>>>> with, there are people promoted and tenured without at least a >>>>>> handful of articles in commonly recognized journals. And if you are >>>>>> happy with an average increase in your salary, you don't have to get >>>>>> stressed in our place either. >>>>>> >>>>>> Michael >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 4:04 PM, Greg Thompson >>>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I once toyed with the idea of "slow scholarship" and I remain >>>>>>> entirely convinced that this is a virtue. But once I was entered >>>>>>> into the competition/race of academia, it was all about how fast >>>>>>> you can get to >>>>>> the >>>>>>> finish line (aka "publications"). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Perhaps there is something good about this (assuming that it is >>>>>>> better >>>>>> to >>>>>>> publish something than to not publish anything), but it also has >>>>>>> the nefarious effect of turning scholars into cogs in publishing >>>> factories. >>>>>>> And, continuing in this cynical spirit, I might add that the >>>>>>> Science article about "Slow" actually seems to be making the same >>>>>>> case for >>>>>> speed - >>>>>>> maybe it isn't a sprint, but it is still a race and first one to >>>>>>> the >>>>>> finish >>>>>>> line wins, so you better pick up the pace! Fast! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And re: the man whispering in his ear as he runs: >>>>>>> "We see how in this way the mode of production and the means of >>>>>> production >>>>>>> are continually transformed, revolutionised, *how the division of >>>>>> labour is >>>>>>> necessarily followed by greater divisions of labour, the >>>>>>> application of machinery by still greater application of machinery, >>>>>>> work on a large >>>>>> scale >>>>>>> by work on a still larger scale.* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "That is the law which again and again throws bourgeois production >>>>>>> out >>>>>> of >>>>>>> its old course and which compels capital to intensify the >>>>>>> productive >>>>>> forces >>>>>>> of labour, *because *it has intensified them, it, the law which >>>>>>> gives capital no rest and continually whispers in its ear: 'Go on! Go >>>> on!'" >>>>>>> (Marx - Wage Labour and Capital). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -greg? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 3:11 PM, Wolff-Michael Roth < >>>>>>> wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>> this article "In praise of slow" appears to be fitting the >>>> discussion. >>>>>>> The >>>>>>>> author uses a nice analogy with running. Michael >>>>>>>> http://science.sciencemag.org/content/359/6375/602 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 8:40 AM, Huw Lloyd >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> "Assessing their abilities and accomplishments in this regard >>>>>>>>> was a >>>>>>>> matter >>>>>>>>> of judgment and so could not be quantified; it could be >>>>>>>>> exercised >>>>>> only >>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>> those capable of it." >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I would say, "cannot be quantified simply". >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>> Huw >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 26 February 2018 at 15:05, Greg Thompson < >>>>>> greg.a.thompson@gmail.com >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> And here is a nice article that speaks to the bureaucratic >>>>>>>>>> logic >>>>>>> that I >>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>> mentioning (the author refers to "the all-administrative >>>>>>> institution"): >>>>>>>>>> https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/whose-university-is-it- >>>>>> anyway/#! >>>>>>>>>> A quote from it: >>>>>>>>>> "The revolution is over and the administrators have won. But >>>>>>>>>> the persistence of traditional structures and language has >>>>>>>>>> led some to >>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>> that the fight over the institution is now just beginning. >>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>> is a >>>>>>>>>> mistake. As with most revolutions, open conflict occurs only >>>>>>>>>> after >>>>>>> real >>>>>>>>>> power has already changed hands." >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -greg >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 6:27 PM, Martin Packer < >>>>>> mpacker@cantab.net> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On STEM and social science: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> <>>>>>>>>>> doctors-revolt-bernard-lown.html?action=click&pgtype= >>>>>>>>>>> Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col- >>>>>>>>>>> left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav= >>>>>>>>>>> opinion-c-col-left-region >>>>>>>>>> 02/24/opinion/sunday/doctors-revolt-bernard-lown.html? >>>>>>>>>>> action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading& >>>>>>>>>>> module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c-col- >>>>>>>>>>> left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On measures of learning: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> - measure-learning-outcomes.html?action=click&pgtype= >>>>>>>>>>> Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col- >>>>>>>>>>> left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav= >>>>>>>>>>> opinion-c-col-left-region >>>>>>>>>> 02/23/opinion/sunday/colleges-measure-learning-outcomes. >>>>>>>>>>> html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story- >>>>>>>>>>> heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c- >>>>>>>>>>> col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Martin >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 25, 2018, at 8:15 PM, Glassman, Michael < >>>>>>>> glassman.13@osu.edu> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Huw, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps the opposite is also true though. STEM >>>>>>>>>>>> researchers >>>>>> can >>>>>>>>> better >>>>>>>>>>> understand what they are doing if they are well versed in >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>> social >>>>>>>>>>> sciences. Understand the history and the meaning of what >>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>> are >>>>>>>> doing >>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>> they do not act as androids (sorry, been watching the >>>>>>>>>>> Aliens >>>>>>> trilogy >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> late). Perhaps we made the wrong calculation. We have lost >>>>>> control >>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> our >>>>>>>>>>> great STEM innovations because the people using them don't >>>>>>> understand >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> social webs that they create. So we have people pushing >>>>>>>>>>> xMOOCs >>>>>>>>> (whatever >>>>>>>>>>> happened to MOOCs anyway) as saving education (and also a >>>>>> bundle so >>>>>>>>>>> everybody gets tax cuts, wheeee!), saying that they are >>>>>>>>>>> good >>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>> can reach many, the proverbial long tail, with great >>>>>>>>>>> education >>>>>>>>> (Harvard, >>>>>>>>>>> Stanford). Yet nobody asks the question, "Why is this a >>>>>>>>>>> good >>>>>>> thing." >>>>>>>>>> There >>>>>>>>>>> really isn't much supporting this in earlier distance >>>> education. >>>>>>>> There >>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>> actually more evidence of how dangerous it is >>>>>>>>>>> (Participatory >>>>>> Action >>>>>>>>>>> Research). >>>>>>>>>>>> Michael >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >>>>>>>>>>> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Huw Lloyd >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2018 7:32 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I would ask, what makes you think you have an ecology (or >>>>>> niche)? >>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>>> seems that the notion of topologically derived ecologies is >>>>>> still >>>>>>>>> bandied >>>>>>>>>>> about since Bronfenbrenner (1977), though I do not know >>>>>>>>>>> whether >>>>>> he >>>>>>>>>> managed >>>>>>>>>>> to refine (overhaul and improve) his notions into something >>>>>>>> integrated >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> agent-centric. One does not provide an ecology or an >>>>>> environment. >>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>>> environment is different for everyone, a simple >>>>>>>>>>> consideration >>>>>> of a >>>>>>>>>>> rock-face or climbing wall is sufficient to grasp this -- >>>>>>>>>>> the so >>>>>>>> called >>>>>>>>>>> environment (the rock face) is different to each climber, >>>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>> environment >>>>>>>>>>> is that which is appropriate to them which includes >>>>>>>>>>> contexts >>>>>> well >>>>>>>>> beyond >>>>>>>>>>> what is established in an institution. From what I can >>>>>>>>>>> gauge, >>>>>>>>>> historically, >>>>>>>>>>> slack was deliberately introduced into courses to afford >>>>>> personal >>>>>>>>>> enquiry. >>>>>>>>>>>> There was the basic work and then there was the genuine >>>>>> enquiry. >>>>>>>> Who >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>> their right mind wants to write an exam essay on a question >>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>> expected to pre-write and repeat by memory? Why would >>>>>>>>>>> someone >>>>>> who >>>>>>>>> enjoys >>>>>>>>>>> thinking about their subject want to go through that kind >>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> impoverished >>>>>>>>>>> tedium? These systems are obviously geared for "delivery". >>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps the biggest cultural shift can be achieved >>>>>>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>>> instituting >>>>>>>>>>> joint and personal enquiry. A teacher that stands before >>>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>> class >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> delivers their subject inevitably obscures and obstructs >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>> process >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> enquiry, although many students will have learnt from a >>>>>>>>>>> young >>>>>> age >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>> is what to expect and demand. Engagement with genuine >>>>>>>>>>> problems >>>>>>> rather >>>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>>>> what students are expected to do is the basic orientational >>>>>> issue. >>>>>>>>>> Dispose >>>>>>>>>>> of grades, then anyone who isn't interested is free to go >>>> home. >>>>>>>>>>>> The advance of STEM research is probably a good thing for >>>>>> social >>>>>>>>>> science. >>>>>>>>>>>> For productive work, social science must understand the >>>>>> structure >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> STEM based work, in addition to bureaucratic processes and >>>>>>>>> circumstances >>>>>>>>>>> for creative work. Sticking one's head in the sand over >>>>>> STEM-like >>>>>>>>>> research >>>>>>>>>>> serves merely to perpetuate the impoverished side of social >>>>>>> science. >>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>>> reminds me of the scene in Pirsig's Zen and the Art of >>>>>> Motorcycle >>>>>>>>>>> Maintenance in which a couple lack the wherewithal to fix a >>>>>>> dripping >>>>>>>>>> faucet >>>>>>>>>>> that gives them grief and instead choose to ignore it. >>>>>>>>>>> Though it >>>>>>> was >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> very >>>>>>>>>>> long time ago, Pirsig's book may have contributed to my >>>>>>> understanding >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> quality and might be thought of as an exploration of some >>>>>>>>>>> social >>>>>>>> issues >>>>>>>>>>> pertaining to technical enterprises. Another good text to >>>>>>> appreciate >>>>>>>>>>> quality more directly, probably outside the formal area of >>>>>> STEM, is >>>>>>>>>>> Alshuller's Innovation Algorithm. >>>>>>>>>>>> Warm regards to you Henry, Greg, Alfredo. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>>>>> Huw >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 25 February 2018 at 22:39, Alfredo Jornet Gil < >>>>>>>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Greg, Huw, and others, I do often get worried that in >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>> formals >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> informal meetings at our department (department of >>>>>> education), >>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations tend to focus on the "micro" developments >>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>> mention (students, grades, getting a next grant, getting >>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> paper >>>>>>>>>>>>> published, making sure you've got enough) most of the >>>>>>>>>>>>> time, >>>>>> and >>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>>>> much on what society we would like to have, and how our >>>>>>>> institution >>>>>>>>>>>>> could/should contribute to that. I do not have any >>>>>> suggestions >>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> type of studies that you ask about?dealing with how >>>>>> ecologies of >>>>>>>>>>>>> scholarship in academia lead to given developmental >>>>>>> dynamics?other >>>>>>>>>>>>> than the classical studies in STS, like Latour & >>>>>>>>>>>>> Woolgar's on laboratory life, or S. L. Star's. But when >>>>>>>>>>>>> I look forward at >>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>> lies >>>>>>>>>>>>> between me (or anyone in my institution) and a change in >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>> way >>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>>> institution has impact in the life of many, what I see >>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>> lots >>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>> routines, habits, documents, and paperwork entangled in >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> middle, >>>>>>>>>>>>> such that the idea "mediation all the way through" makes >>>>>>>>>>>>> all >>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> sense. And seeing things that way (from the ecological >>>>>>>> perspective), >>>>>>>>>>>>> makes the possibility of changing things to look >>>>>>>>>>>>> actually >>>>>>>> feasible, >>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>> more accurately perhaps, imagine-able. I'd like to >>>>>>>>>>>>> continue >>>>>>> being >>>>>>>>> part >>>>>>>>>>>>> of the ecology to be able to be also be part of its >>>>>>>>>>>>> changing >>>>>>> it. I >>>>>>>>>>>>> hope others will bring more specific literature to bear. >>>>>>>>>>>>> I am >>>>>>>>> already >>>>>>>>>>> downloading some of Peter Sloterdijk's to read. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Alfredo >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>> on behalf of Greg >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thompson >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: 24 February 2018 17:45 >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I appreciate Huw's concern about academia and the push >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>> orient >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>> broader and more systemic concern with "development". I >>>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>> this is what institutions of higher education are >>>>>>>>>>>>> supposed to >>>>>>>> have, >>>>>>>>>>>>> right? - at the very least a concern for the development >>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> individual >>>>>>>>>>>>> "students", but also, one would hope, a concern for >>>>>>> "development" >>>>>>>>> at a >>>>>>>>>>>>> longer timescale (e.g., how to be a better society, a >>>>>>>>>>>>> better >>>>>>>> world). >>>>>>>>>>>>> They certainly tout these in their promo materials. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> And yet, in practice, these institutions often fall back >>>>>>>>>>>>> on bureaucratic or economic logics. Bureaucratic logic >>>>>>>>>>>>> goes >>>>>>> something >>>>>>>>>>>>> like, "just publish (in "good" (i.e., high impact >>>>>>>>>>>>> factor) >>>>>>>> journals), >>>>>>>>>>>>> who cares what you publish so long as we can count it to >>>>>>> determine >>>>>>>>> its >>>>>>>>>>> (and your) 'value'(!)". >>>>>>>>>>>>> As for the economic logic, I was just talking with Rick >>>>>> Shweder >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> other day about this issue and he expressed the concern >>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> push >>>>>>>>>>>>> towards STEM education at the expense of all else and >>>>>>>>>>>>> the way >>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>> STEM buildings are slowly starting to take over his >>>>>>>>>>>>> campus >>>>>> (the >>>>>>>>>>>>> University of Chicago - a place that was long held to be >>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>> hold >>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>> liberal arts education - apparently they now have an >>>>>> engineering >>>>>>>>>>>>> program). He suggested that this is tied to an early >>>>>>>>>>>>> 80's >>>>>> court >>>>>>>>>>>>> decision that gave universities ownership of patents >>>>>> developed >>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>>> campuses. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To my mind, this calls to mind a concern with ecologies >>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> development >>>>>>>>>>>>> (across the shorter and longer timescales). What are the >>>>>>> ecologies >>>>>>>>>>>>> (social, economic, political, etc.) within which >>>>>>>>>>>>> development >>>>>> (at >>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>>>>>> various >>>>>>>>>>>>> timescales) occurs in our world today? This is really a >>>>>> question >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>> what is possible and/or what is likely with regard to >>>>>> becoming. >>>>>>>> What >>>>>>>>>>>>> are the forms of life and forms of development that are >>>>>>>> sustainable >>>>>>>>>>>>> given the larger ecologies in which that development >>>> happens? >>>>>>>>>>>>> And for thinking through that problem, I've had a hard >>>>>>>>>>>>> time >>>>>>>> thinking >>>>>>>>>>>>> of anyone who has better thought through this problem >>>>>>>>>>>>> than >>>>>> Marx >>>>>>> - >>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>> the longer timescale of development, that is (Vygotsky >>>>>> would, of >>>>>>>>>>>>> course, be better at thinking through development at the >>>>>> shorter >>>>>>>>>>>>> timescale of ontogeny). >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd love to hear others' thoughts on those who have >>>>>>>>>>>>> studied >>>>>>>>> activities >>>>>>>>>>>>> that can begin to shed light on these ecologies of >>>>>> development >>>>>>>>>>>>> (particularly at the longer timescale). Any >>>>>>> thoughts/suggestions? >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> would imagine this work considering various kinds of >>>>>>> institutions >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>> run the gamut - from venture capitalist firms to >>>>>>>>>>>>> non-profits >>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> governmental institutions to institutions of higher >>>>>> education. I >>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>>>>>> presume that each of these kinds of institutions would >>>>>>>>>>>>> have a >>>>>>>> local >>>>>>>>>>>>> ecology within which they work, but I am tempted to >>>>>>>>>>>>> imagine >>>>>> some >>>>>>>>> kind >>>>>>>>>>>>> of global meta-ecology (perhaps Marx's "global >>>>>>>>>>>>> capitalism"?) within which each of these local ecologies >>>>>>> operates. >>>>>>>>> I'd >>>>>>>>>>>>> be curious about actual research that has been done >>>>>> documenting >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> nature of these ecologies - e.g., what kinds of >>>>>>>>>>>>> resources are available to be exploited? What kinds of >>>>>>>>>>>>> possibilities are >>>>>> there >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> different forms of life? What institutional organisms >>>>>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>> thrive? >>>>>>>>>>>>> Which are dying off? (and just to be clear, I am >>>>>>>>>>>>> intending a biological/evolutionary nature of the >>>> metaphor). >>>>>>>>>>>>> It seems that this kind of work would be most likely to >>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>> been >>>>>>>>> done >>>>>>>>>>>>> by folks in the CHAT world, but perhaps the scale (of >>>>>>>>>>>>> time >>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> space) >>>>>>>>>>>>> is a bit beyond the scales that CHAT folks prefer to >>>>>> consider? >>>>>>>>>>>>> (I should add that I've recently discovered the work of >>>>>>>>>>>>> Peter Sloterdijk's Bubbles trilogy and am curious if >>>>>>>>>>>>> anyone has any >>>>>>>>> thoughts >>>>>>>>>>>>> on the value of his approach - it seems to fit very well >>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>> Marx >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> with CHAT/Vygotsky, my only initial concern was that he >>>>>> seems to >>>>>>>>> fly a >>>>>>>>>>>>> little fast and loose with pyschoanalytics at times - >>>>>>>>>>>>> not a >>>>>>>> serious >>>>>>>>>>>>> problem, but perhaps in a few places). >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sympathetically, >>>>>>>>>>>>> greg >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 1:57 PM, Huw Lloyd < >>>>>>>>> huw.softdesigns@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, I would say there is more to it than simply >>>>>>>> transfer-ability, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> which might be thought of as a good bureaucratic >>>>>> requirement. >>>>>>>>> Really >>>>>>>>>>>>>> what is required is genuine development -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> reorganisation of >>>>>>>>> thought >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> learning. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is what is significant at a personal level, which >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>> also >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> basis >>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> insights and creative work (i.e. personal knowledge >>>>>>>>>>>>>> rather >>>>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>>>> second >>>>>>>>>>>>> hand >>>>>>>>>>>>>> knowledge). The researcher in the blog article does not >>>>>> evince >>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (with allusions to the nature of her training). There >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is the >>>>>>>>> history >>>>>>>>>>>>>> school children learn, which largely concerns the use >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>> memory, >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> then there >>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the history of conditions, relations and processes, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>> concerns >>>>>>>>>>>>>> protracted thought. This developmental emphasis is what >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> lacking >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in institutions which is why I have frequently pointed >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>> out. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> This principle apples to "secure" jobs too. The jobs I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>> walked >>>>>>>>>>>>>> away from have been due to the overly narrow scope, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> where I >>>>>>> felt >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> was necessary to be far more ambitious to achieve >>>>>>>>>>>>>> modest satisfaction, an ambition which included >>>>>>>>>>>>>> achieving the wider >>>>>>>> scope >>>>>>>>>>>>>> within the norms established. Similar issues pertain to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> my peripheral engagement with academia. Twenty years >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ago, after completing a masters in cognitive >>>>>>>>>>>>> science >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (a good year), I decided against pursuing any further >>>>>>>>>>>>>> formal education >>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>> any immediacy due to my sense that what I was >>>>>>>>>>>>>> encountering >>>>>> in >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> subject (and related subjects) was fundamentally wrong >>>>>>>>>>>>>> or inadequate, but I couldn't quite discern what that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> was. So, >>>>>> for >>>>>>>> me, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I had no interest in furthering the academic course at >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>> time, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> because I was concerned with understanding, doing, >>>>>> discovering >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> development, not being a "good researcher". I was and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> am uninterested in the trappings of academia, what it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> looks >>>>>> like >>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the outside (with dubious ethics of promoting those in >>>>>> society >>>>>>>> who >>>>>>>>>>>>>> least need it) -- hence I am not too bothered about >>>>>>>>>>>>>> where >>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> experiences come from. After all, if you want sound >>>>>> knowledge >>>>>>>> then >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it should be validated in places where it counts (in >>>>>> action), >>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>> an echo chamber of words. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From my (developmental) perspective academia appears >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be chockfull of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> unproductive thinking. The lack of systems >>>>>>>>>>>>>> understanding in >>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> social sciences (which has been pointed out by key >>>>>>>>>>>>>> persons >>>>>> for >>>>>>>> two >>>>>>>>>>>>>> generations) >>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> find to be quite incredible. This, as far as I can see, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> panacea to the stasis and lethargy that I have seen in >>>>>> certain >>>>>>>>>>>>>> institutions, where there are people in secure jobs >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with no >>>>>>>>> interest >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in revitalising an institution (perhaps the same people >>>>>>>>>>>>>> who >>>>>>> rely >>>>>>>>>>>>>> upon their status for authority). In the UK, in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> social >>>>>>>>> sciences, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the whole social science infrastructure is built upon a >>>>>> notion >>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> quality that is ignorant of systems -- that is the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> degree to >>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>>>>>>> unproductive thinking has >>>>>>>>>>>>> penetrated >>>>>>>>>>>>>> social science. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yet there is much more to it still. Recently I have >>>>>>>>>>>>>> also >>>>>> come >>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> surprising awareness that developmental prerogatives >>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>> rather >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> significant amount in common with spiritual ones. So I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>> offer >>>>>>>>>>>>> broader >>>>>>>>>>>>>> advice than Michael's of staying clear of hardship. It >>>>>>>>>>>>>> may >>>>>> be >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "nadir" something surprising may be discovered. For >>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyone >>>>>>> with a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> passion "job security" is not a goal, at best it is a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> means >>>>>> to >>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ends, at worst >>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is an obstacle. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Over and out. :) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Huw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 20 February 2018 at 07:12, Alfredo Jornet Gil >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Huw, Helena, and all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thanks to you both for taking the discussion where I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>> hoping >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> go >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> further: first, towards a reflection on the nature of >>>>>> training >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> academic scholars go through as it concerns the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> classical >>>>>>>> problem >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of learning "transfer"; and then, as it regards the >>>>>> question >>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> academic freedom >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (which >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actually may be the same question, just taken in a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> language >>>>>>> more >>>>>>>>>>>>> adequate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to an ecological understanding of the problem). This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> absolutely >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an individual problem. And, on that matter, I should >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>> clear >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> am a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> privileged in a privileged land, where, despite all >>>>>>> uncertainty >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> pains >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that my family have gone and go through, I have today >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>> good >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> background >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> network, and probably better prospects than the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> majority of >>>>>>>> junior >>>>>>>>>>>>>> scholars >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out there. Not that I have earned this privilege for >>>>>> nothing: >>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>> migrant >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> history and that of my family is all connected to an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> effort >>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quest >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get better chances of academic opportunity in this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> market >>>>>>> Helena >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> talks about. But my personal story, as that of the >>>>>> historian >>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the article shared or of my French astronomer friend, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>> relevant >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in as far as >>>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> help us reflect on just those questions. They really >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also >>>>>> make >>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>>>>>> wonder >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the sense of the term "academic freedom", for the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> latter >>>>>>> term >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cannot >>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about doing whatever research you want to do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> independently >>>>>> of >>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>>>>>> market >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conditions and societal needs and economy. We may then >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pose >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> questions, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what type of "freedom" is the "freedom" current >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> systems (of incentives, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ISI lists) afford, and what type of system could allow >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> another >>>>>>>>>>>>>> meaning >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the term "freedom"? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not to get too abstract, I guess that those >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reflections >>>>>> may be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> best pondered along concrete cases, if people is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> willing to >>>>>>> take >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on Helena's suggestion to share particular stories of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all >>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> goes into getting >>>>>>>>>>>>> into >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> secured academic job positions, or else, of pursuing >>>>>>>> (in)dependent >>>>>>>>>>>>>> careers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outside/at the borders of/across academia. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alfredo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> on behalf of Helena Worthen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: 19 February 2018 19:19 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In the interests of widening the discussion: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I?ve described my work history before on this list ? >>>>>>> basically, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> moving from teaching literature and writing (with >>>>>> stopovers in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> landscape architecture and theater production) to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> concern >>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the working conditions of teachers, especially >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> academics in >>>>>>>> higher >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> education, the >>>>>>>>>>>>> 75% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who are contingent/adjuncts. The concern is both for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>>>>> employed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this way and for the integrity of the institutions >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>> employ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them. I eventually engaged this concern by working >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with and >>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the labor >>>>>>>>>>>>>> movement, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ending up first working for the garment/apparel >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> workers >>>>>> union >>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Philadelphia and then at the Labor Educaiton Program >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>> the U >>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Illinois, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from which I retired in 2010. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The new twist to this story is about the employment of >>>>>>> academics >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on short-term contracts in Viet Nam, under conditions >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>> seem >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be increasingly frequent in the ?developing? world, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where >>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> market for education is booming. University World News >>>>>>>> http://www >>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> universityworldnews.com/ tracks this phenomenon and >>>>>> includes >>>>>>>>>>>>> occasinal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> critical articles about the competition for rankings. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The university >>>>>>>>>>>>>> where >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my husband and I have been teaching on and off since >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2015, >>>>>> Ton >>>>>>>> Duc >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thang >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ho Chi Minh City, recruits professors from all over >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>> world >>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a promise of $2,000 per month US ? but extending their >>>>>>> contracts >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> depends >>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> producing articles published in journals on the ISI >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list; >>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nature of this list is worth taking a look at. The >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impact >>>>>> of >>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice on the culture and student body is not all bad. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My point here is to place the issue of the challenge >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>> getting >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tenure-track job in a global context. This is not just >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an individual problem. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I?m willing to go further down this line of discussion. >>>>>>> However, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> academics >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are often reluctant to reveal and compare their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> working >>>>>>>> conditions >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ?academic? discussion list. Maybe by putting up the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> issue >>>>>> of >>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>>>>> academic >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> freedom requires, and how these requirements fare in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>> global >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> market >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> higher education, we can shed the embarassment of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> revealing information about our own experiences with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> getting the >>>>>> brass >>>>>>>> ring >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of a full-time, secure job. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let?s see if anyone picks up on this. Maybe I?m being >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> too >>>>>>> vague. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Helena Worthen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com Berkeley, CA 94707 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 510-828-2745 Blog US/ Viet Nam: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> skype: helena.worthen1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 19, 2018, at 9:19 AM, Huw Lloyd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The article describes accumulating large amounts of >>>>>> knowledge >>>>>>>>>>>>>> pertaining >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> history, which (the author maintains) cannot be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turned to >>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> endeavours. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This, no doubt, is true for her. If, however, her >>>>>> approach to >>>>>>>>>>>>> studying >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> history had been systemic, then there would have been >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> powerful >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> form >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> re-application and continuity in any work that was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turned >>>>>> to. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same can be said for "phd/postdoc training". If it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cannot >>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reused >>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> isn't enabling, what, substantively, is it? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Huw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 18 February 2018 at 18:32, Alfredo Jornet Gil < >>>>>>>>>>>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Really inspiring words and work, Francine. I do see >>>>>>> community >>>>>>>>>>>>> colleges >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many other educational settings apart from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> universities >>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> valuable >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and exciting opportunities; the PhD and following >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> postdoc >>>>>>> etc >>>>>>>>>>>>> training >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> universities, however, tend to be very much targeted >>>>>>> towards a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> very >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> narrow >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spectrum of positions, or at least that's been my >>>>>>> experience. >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>>>>>>>> very >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happy that this thread may widen that scope and make >>>>>> visible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> paths. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And as Mike suggested, it would be very interesting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>> hear >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>>>>> several >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others who have followed distinct trajectories apart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phd-postdoc-assist/assoc. prof-prof, and yet made a >>>>>> career >>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> touch >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> most of what was developed in the junior (phd and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few >>>>>> later) >>>>>>>>>> years. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alfredo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> edu> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on behalf of Larry Smolucha >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: 18 February 2018 06:20 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Message from Francine Smolucha on a scholar's life >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> academia >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alfredo, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are other jobs that pay well (sometimes with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tenure >>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> early retirement benefits) - besides professorships >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>> four >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> year colleges >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> universities. Administrative and support staff >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> positions >>>>>>> pay >>>>>>>>>> well. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> And >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't overlook community colleges, technical >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> colleges, >>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> public >>>>>>>>>>>>>> grade >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> schools and high schools. There is also the private >>>>>> sector >>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> government >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jobs. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As a 'low status' community college professor, I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> managed >>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> translate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Vygotsky's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> overlooked writings on creativity (back in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1980's) >>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> introduced >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theory of creativity to academia. I got early >>>>>> retirement at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> age 53 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> continue to write and publish. While my Ph.D from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the University of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chicago >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gave me academic bona fides, it was the quality of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the scholarly >>>>>>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ultimately mattered. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was always inspired by the harsh circumstances of >>>>>>> Vygotsky's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> life >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how he still kept on writing. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [When I felt really sorry for myself, I would >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actually >>>>>> say >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Well at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> least >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not coughing up blood"] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So many of his works were not published in his >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lifetime, >>>>>> he >>>>>>>> did >>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> collect a royalties check, and they say he was >>>>>> depressed >>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> end >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his life. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I leave you with this quote from an ancient Sufi >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mystic - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You can't always get what you want but you can get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> edu> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on behalf of mike cole >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:07 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yours is a quandary shared by your generation, Alfredo. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Being allowed to teach and conduct research in a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quality institution >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great privilege and an increasingly rarer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possibility. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are several people on this list who have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> organized >>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lives >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> independent scholars while staying connected to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> core institutions of disciplinary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> training. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It might be nice to hear the variety out there. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It appears pretty certain that the situation is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going to >>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worse before/if it gets better. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What can the collective experience of xmca come up >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> useful to the many >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of you caught in this meat grinder? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mike >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good luck then, Wagner! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit < >>>>>> wagner.schmit@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: 18 February 2018 01:07 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This just hit me in the spot... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wagner >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2018 9:48 PM, "Alfredo Jornet Gil" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have not been able to contribute to this list as >>>>>> much as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd >>>>>>>>>>>>> like >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lately, among other things, because I need to find >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>> job, >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make sure that I have checked all those boxes that >>>>>>> selection >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> committees >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will check (enough first-authored publications? in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good enough >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> journals? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> acquiring >>>>>>>>>>>>>> funds? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than all others candidates? and more than >>>>>>>>>>>>>> favoured-for-whatever-other- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these >>>>>> weeks >>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fill >>>>>>>>>>>>> up >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, although I did not think that it was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> particularly >>>>>>> well >>>>>>>>>>>>> written, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was both relieving and discouraging to read this >>>>>> article >>>>>>>> (see >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> link >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> below, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who >>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> subscribes this list). The article makes visible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>> pain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> scholars >>>>>>>>>>>>>> go >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> through when, after so many years of digging and >>>>>> digging >>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> digging a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leave it >>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find >>>>>>>>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who >>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> moving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the world with his lovely family, short-term >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> project >>>>>> after >>>>>>>>>>>>>> short-term >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> project, getting better and better at what he >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worked on >>>>>>>>>>>>> (apparently >>>>>>>>>>>>>> he >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> among the few who had expertise in computer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> modeling simulating >>>>>>>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> astronomic events) , and finally having to step >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>> academia >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> last >>>>>>>>>>>>>> year >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find something else to do, for his family no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> longer >>>>>> could >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stand >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>> soon. >>>>>>>> And >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> may >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the >>>>>> story >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems to >>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> endemic to academia and may be interesting to some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>> you: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Lo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ses- >>>>>>>> When/24 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2560 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alfredo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Assistant Professor >>>>>>>>>>>>> Department of Anthropology >>>>>>>>>>>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University >>>>>>>>>>>>> Provo, UT 84602 >>>>>>>>>>>>> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>>>>>>>>> Assistant Professor >>>>>>>>>> Department of Anthropology >>>>>>>>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >>>>>>>>>> Brigham Young University >>>>>>>>>> Provo, UT 84602 >>>>>>>>>> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu >>>>>>>>>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>>>>>> Assistant Professor >>>>>>> Department of Anthropology >>>>>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >>>>>>> Brigham Young University >>>>>>> Provo, UT 84602 >>>>>>> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu >>>>>>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>>>> Assistant Professor >>>>> Department of Anthropology >>>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >>>>> Brigham Young University >>>>> Provo, UT 84602 >>>>> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu >>>>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>>> Assistant Professor >>>> Department of Anthropology >>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >>>> Brigham Young University >>>> Provo, UT 84602 >>>> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu >>>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>> Assistant Professor >>> Department of Anthropology >>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >>> Brigham Young University >>> Provo, UT 84602 >>> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu >>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >>> From andyb@marxists.org Thu Mar 1 06:43:32 2018 From: andyb@marxists.org (Andy Blunden) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2018 01:43:32 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In-Reply-To: <002e01d3b160$9b345030$d19cf090$@att.net> References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AEE329@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <1519887325986.67284@iped.uio.no> <68f7b914-1cd6-fbb6-52c5-8eddb56479c1@marxists.org> <78D1F34E-8C0B-4551-BBFA-3156D99443F3@iped.uio.no> <33117cce-e13a-4b89-a21c-6cac8f58cb4f@marxists.org> <002e01d3b160$9b345030$d19cf090$@att.net> Message-ID: <9b528afb-665f-4a65-68cc-e8f1d9d8ea57@marxists.org> Wow! Thanks Peg. I am relying a lot on what I have learnt in movements for 50 years before becoming more or less a home body, and what I pick up from the media. So I know about intersectionality, and your description of it sparks my interest, because it is in circulation and expresses a lot of what I mean by solidarity - a word which may have old fashioned connotations for the youngies. But I hadn't investigated intersectionality because I gathered it was limited to gender politics. I have never heard it used in relation to class. Amy politics which ignores class is off my radar. As to "allyship" = I've never heard that noun form, so maybe I am not aware of its currency. Though I have heard of LGBTIQA in which A=Ally. And as you describe it, it is very much to do with solidarity. "Rising" is unknown to me down here in Oz. I'll give you a link to an article I wrote in Solidarity a couple of years ago, in connection with an atrocious breach of solidarity and my talk from last week, in which you will see the Vygotsky connection. Both very short. https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Solidarity-v5.pdf https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Urpraxis.pdf If you have any good sources on intersectionality and Allyship - reflective articles I mean, rather than just mentions in passing, I'd be most interested. Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm On 2/03/2018 12:24 AM, Peg Griffin wrote: > Hi, Andy, > I've been lurking a bit at the edges of the days and was glad to see your comment. > > I wanted to see if you've come across two concepts (maybe two and a half) that are developing and being exercised under the conditions here -- by here I mean across the US at the minimum. > The two "intersectionality," and "allyship," and the half is "rising." > "Intersectionality" was well critiqued and developed during the formation of the Women's March(es) and continues to have bouts of discussion, but the main thing is doing it. To define it, I'd probably say, "Any organized group in the (what is sometimes called the) "resisterhood" collaborates and cooperates and does no harm to any other group in the resisterhood." Practically it means packing the room/rally, sharing bird-dogging shifts/places, helping with permits, doing jail support, marching, marshalling, spreading the word about actions and resources as they become available. There isn't a hierarchical relation among the sections; the inter-sections are embodied in any member of a group who is, of course, in more than one section and that individual may prioritize one section over another at any given time. > "Allyship" (not yet in spell checker) is related to intersections but a tad different. It is built on the idea that any given group has people who are on the front line (and who have most weight in decisions) and others who may be front line in some other group but are allies in the group in question. There is ally training for long term involvement and shorter ones for specific actions. The training to be an allyis crucial and tough when the intersecting spreads over well-developed chasms in the society like race, gender, economic power/privilege. > Now about "rising" -- this is a word used naming or renaming groups. I first found it in the name of a nationwide group of indigenous peoples who nowadays act against drilling and pipelines and the economic institutions that finance them and act for clean water, air, lands, and social-cultural respect and rights. But it is in the names of other groups, including a grass roots group that provides trainings for grass roots organizers! I think main connotations are that the group with "rising" in its name is well-rooted and still emerging/developing/shaping itself. So far, it hasn't emerged as a super category. > > BTW, Catholic nuns got arrested in a Senate Office Building (notice what the initials can also signify) yesterday in a rotunda as they were being allies of DACA recipients and praying with their rosaries. These nuns were not the "nuns on a bus" who have been acting up for a few years now but from more central nunneries and the action was sponsored by Catholic Charities -- about as mainstream as it gets! > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden > Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2018 4:50 AM > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > Well, of course, you have a duty of solidarity which goes > beyond academia. > > Andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > On 1/03/2018 8:24 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: >> Andy, that?s a beautiful statement; and, if that which we together constitute and constitutes us is beyond our control (as the Marx quote Greg brought up states), it makes sense that communist society cannot as such be the goal, but the practice and duty of solidarity. Now, instituting solidarity as a practice in academia, that sounds like a challenging but powerfully driving task, right? >> >> Alfredo >> >>> On 1 Mar 2018, at 08:10, Andy Blunden wrote: >>> >>> In answer to your question, Alfredo, I think the point is >>> that "communism is not as such the goal of human development >>> ? the form of human society," but is essentially the >>> practice and duty of *solidarity*. To be a communist is to >>> act on the duty of solidarity to the best of one's ability. >>> The day when solidarity is universal, that is communism. >>> >>> Andy >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Andy Blunden >>> ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm >>>> On 1/03/2018 5:55 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: >>>> Absolutely Greg; fishing in the morning and criticising after dinner sounds really good to me! Marx's formulation seems totally relevant here, and his sounds like an ecological perspective too, but with subject, with content (where other formulations sound to me very useful, yet somehow content-less, abstract, I guess). But, where does a communist society begin? Or perhaps the question is, when does it begin? And what can current caught-up critical critics do to go fishing in the morning, apart from running races to secure steadily raising salaries in current society? Those well read Marxists could come handy here and give us a hand and help us getting started! >>>> Alfredo >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Greg Thompson >>>> Sent: 01 March 2018 05:47 >>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>> >>>> Michael G, >>>> Yes, I think you've really hit the nail on the head in pointing to the >>>> ecology within which academia sits. Apologies for being a gadfly here and >>>> simply pointing to a problem without pointing to a solution. >>>> >>>> How about we turn back to Marx?: >>>> >>>> "For as soon as the distribution of labour comes into being, each man has a >>>> particular, exclusive sphere of activity, which is forced upon him and from >>>> which he cannot escape. He is a hunter, a fisherman, a herdsman, or a >>>> critical critic, and must remain so if he does not want to lose his means >>>> of livelihood; while in communist society, where nobody has one exclusive >>>> sphere of activity but each can become accomplished in any branch he >>>> wishes, society regulates the general production and thus makes it possible >>>> for me to do one thing today and another tomorrow, to hunt in the morning, >>>> fish in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening, criticise after dinner, >>>> just as I have a mind, without ever becoming hunter, fisherman, herdsman or >>>> critic. This fixation of social activity, this consolidation of what we >>>> ourselves produce into an objective power above us, growing out of our >>>> control, thwarting our expectations, bringing to naught our calculations, >>>> is one of the chief factors in historical development up till now." >>>> >>>> In Marx's view, we can all be academics (i.e., "critical critics"). >>>> What do you think? >>>> -greg >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 8:26 PM, Glassman, Michael >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Greg, >>>>> >>>>> Here is my question. If we go to slow academics how do we determine on the >>>>> distribution of resources? If we give people a lot of time to conduct >>>>> their work who gets that time? >>>>> >>>>> I think the scarcity of academic resources is very much a corporate >>>>> phenomenon. There really should be enough resources for everybody to pursue >>>>> academics as they wish. >>>>> >>>>> The peer review system and the publish or perish ethos is deeply flawed >>>>> and causes a lot of research that shouldn't be done, let alone published. >>>>> But if not at least a semblance of a level playing field you get with blind >>>>> review then how do you decide who deserves the resources. Is it based on >>>>> connections, networks, who you know, where you went to school? Does >>>>> cultural capital become that much more important? Is this less democratic >>>>> or more democratic? >>>>> >>>>> To tell you the truth I don't know. The flaw is in the scarcity though, >>>>> not the system it seems to me. That we have allowed for a large academic >>>>> diaspora to emerge that is forced to teach for little money and no >>>>> benefits. Something we all allowed to happen. >>>>> >>>>> Michael >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >>>>> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Greg Thompson >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2018 9:10 PM >>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>> >>>>> (oh, and I didn't mean to be exclusive in pointing to Michael's work, >>>>> there are many others on the list who would fit this description!) >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 7:08 PM, Greg Thompson >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Yes, Michael, totally agreed. And I see you as a rare exception to the >>>>>> production mill. Whereas you manage to prolifically produce important >>>>>> writings, much of what is published is, to my mind, written too >>>>>> hurriedly and lacks the quality and importance of publications like >>>>> yours. >>>>>> -greg >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 5:33 PM, Wolff-Michael Roth < >>>>>> wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Greg, not all people will think being publishing machines. Some, like >>>>>>> myself, enjoy spending many hours a day writing, analyzing etc. and >>>>>>> turning all of this into peer-reviewed articles. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I referred to my earliest experience before, when I was told I would >>>>>>> not make tenure; and I felt I would not be able to make the 2 >>>>>>> articles or so per year in high quality journals. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But after an absence from academia, it changed. I started doing >>>>>>> research for myself initially, and then wrote it up. From then on, it >>>>>>> was different, writing was something I wanted to do, and the more I >>>>>>> did, the better I got at it. (Not that the peer-review process would >>>>>>> have gotten easier.) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I do admit, though, that the system as set up right now then tends to >>>>>>> reward people who publish more than others, and in "better" journals. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And it depends on context. In the department that I am affiliated >>>>>>> with, there are people promoted and tenured without at least a >>>>>>> handful of articles in commonly recognized journals. And if you are >>>>>>> happy with an average increase in your salary, you don't have to get >>>>>>> stressed in our place either. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Michael >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 4:04 PM, Greg Thompson >>>>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I once toyed with the idea of "slow scholarship" and I remain >>>>>>>> entirely convinced that this is a virtue. But once I was entered >>>>>>>> into the competition/race of academia, it was all about how fast >>>>>>>> you can get to >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> finish line (aka "publications"). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Perhaps there is something good about this (assuming that it is >>>>>>>> better >>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> publish something than to not publish anything), but it also has >>>>>>>> the nefarious effect of turning scholars into cogs in publishing >>>>> factories. >>>>>>>> And, continuing in this cynical spirit, I might add that the >>>>>>>> Science article about "Slow" actually seems to be making the same >>>>>>>> case for >>>>>>> speed - >>>>>>>> maybe it isn't a sprint, but it is still a race and first one to >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>> finish >>>>>>>> line wins, so you better pick up the pace! Fast! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And re: the man whispering in his ear as he runs: >>>>>>>> "We see how in this way the mode of production and the means of >>>>>>> production >>>>>>>> are continually transformed, revolutionised, *how the division of >>>>>>> labour is >>>>>>>> necessarily followed by greater divisions of labour, the >>>>>>>> application of machinery by still greater application of machinery, >>>>>>>> work on a large >>>>>>> scale >>>>>>>> by work on a still larger scale.* >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "That is the law which again and again throws bourgeois production >>>>>>>> out >>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> its old course and which compels capital to intensify the >>>>>>>> productive >>>>>>> forces >>>>>>>> of labour, *because *it has intensified them, it, the law which >>>>>>>> gives capital no rest and continually whispers in its ear: 'Go on! Go >>>>> on!'" >>>>>>>> (Marx - Wage Labour and Capital). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -greg? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 3:11 PM, Wolff-Michael Roth < >>>>>>>> wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>> this article "In praise of slow" appears to be fitting the >>>>> discussion. >>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>> author uses a nice analogy with running. Michael >>>>>>>>> http://science.sciencemag.org/content/359/6375/602 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 8:40 AM, Huw Lloyd >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> "Assessing their abilities and accomplishments in this regard >>>>>>>>>> was a >>>>>>>>> matter >>>>>>>>>> of judgment and so could not be quantified; it could be >>>>>>>>>> exercised >>>>>>> only >>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>> those capable of it." >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I would say, "cannot be quantified simply". >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>>> Huw >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 26 February 2018 at 15:05, Greg Thompson < >>>>>>> greg.a.thompson@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> And here is a nice article that speaks to the bureaucratic >>>>>>>>>>> logic >>>>>>>> that I >>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>> mentioning (the author refers to "the all-administrative >>>>>>>> institution"): >>>>>>>>>>> https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/whose-university-is-it- >>>>>>> anyway/#! >>>>>>>>>>> A quote from it: >>>>>>>>>>> "The revolution is over and the administrators have won. But >>>>>>>>>>> the persistence of traditional structures and language has >>>>>>>>>>> led some to >>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>> that the fight over the institution is now just beginning. >>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>> is a >>>>>>>>>>> mistake. As with most revolutions, open conflict occurs only >>>>>>>>>>> after >>>>>>>> real >>>>>>>>>>> power has already changed hands." >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -greg >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 6:27 PM, Martin Packer < >>>>>>> mpacker@cantab.net> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On STEM and social science: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> <>>>>>>>>>>> doctors-revolt-bernard-lown.html?action=click&pgtype= >>>>>>>>>>>> Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col- >>>>>>>>>>>> left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav= >>>>>>>>>>>> opinion-c-col-left-region >>>>>>>>>>> 02/24/opinion/sunday/doctors-revolt-bernard-lown.html? >>>>>>>>>>>> action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading& >>>>>>>>>>>> module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c-col- >>>>>>>>>>>> left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On measures of learning: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> - measure-learning-outcomes.html?action=click&pgtype= >>>>>>>>>>>> Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col- >>>>>>>>>>>> left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav= >>>>>>>>>>>> opinion-c-col-left-region >>>>>>>>>>> 02/23/opinion/sunday/colleges-measure-learning-outcomes. >>>>>>>>>>>> html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story- >>>>>>>>>>>> heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c- >>>>>>>>>>>> col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Martin >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 25, 2018, at 8:15 PM, Glassman, Michael < >>>>>>>>> glassman.13@osu.edu> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Huw, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps the opposite is also true though. STEM >>>>>>>>>>>>> researchers >>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>> better >>>>>>>>>>>> understand what they are doing if they are well versed in >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> social >>>>>>>>>>>> sciences. Understand the history and the meaning of what >>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>> doing >>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>>> they do not act as androids (sorry, been watching the >>>>>>>>>>>> Aliens >>>>>>>> trilogy >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> late). Perhaps we made the wrong calculation. We have lost >>>>>>> control >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> our >>>>>>>>>>>> great STEM innovations because the people using them don't >>>>>>>> understand >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> social webs that they create. So we have people pushing >>>>>>>>>>>> xMOOCs >>>>>>>>>> (whatever >>>>>>>>>>>> happened to MOOCs anyway) as saving education (and also a >>>>>>> bundle so >>>>>>>>>>>> everybody gets tax cuts, wheeee!), saying that they are >>>>>>>>>>>> good >>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>> can reach many, the proverbial long tail, with great >>>>>>>>>>>> education >>>>>>>>>> (Harvard, >>>>>>>>>>>> Stanford). Yet nobody asks the question, "Why is this a >>>>>>>>>>>> good >>>>>>>> thing." >>>>>>>>>>> There >>>>>>>>>>>> really isn't much supporting this in earlier distance >>>>> education. >>>>>>>>> There >>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>> actually more evidence of how dangerous it is >>>>>>>>>>>> (Participatory >>>>>>> Action >>>>>>>>>>>> Research). >>>>>>>>>>>>> Michael >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >>>>>>>>>>>> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Huw Lloyd >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2018 7:32 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I would ask, what makes you think you have an ecology (or >>>>>>> niche)? >>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>>>> seems that the notion of topologically derived ecologies is >>>>>>> still >>>>>>>>>> bandied >>>>>>>>>>>> about since Bronfenbrenner (1977), though I do not know >>>>>>>>>>>> whether >>>>>>> he >>>>>>>>>>> managed >>>>>>>>>>>> to refine (overhaul and improve) his notions into something >>>>>>>>> integrated >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> agent-centric. One does not provide an ecology or an >>>>>>> environment. >>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>>>> environment is different for everyone, a simple >>>>>>>>>>>> consideration >>>>>>> of a >>>>>>>>>>>> rock-face or climbing wall is sufficient to grasp this -- >>>>>>>>>>>> the so >>>>>>>>> called >>>>>>>>>>>> environment (the rock face) is different to each climber, >>>>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>>> environment >>>>>>>>>>>> is that which is appropriate to them which includes >>>>>>>>>>>> contexts >>>>>>> well >>>>>>>>>> beyond >>>>>>>>>>>> what is established in an institution. From what I can >>>>>>>>>>>> gauge, >>>>>>>>>>> historically, >>>>>>>>>>>> slack was deliberately introduced into courses to afford >>>>>>> personal >>>>>>>>>>> enquiry. >>>>>>>>>>>>> There was the basic work and then there was the genuine >>>>>>> enquiry. >>>>>>>>> Who >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>> their right mind wants to write an exam essay on a question >>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>> expected to pre-write and repeat by memory? Why would >>>>>>>>>>>> someone >>>>>>> who >>>>>>>>>> enjoys >>>>>>>>>>>> thinking about their subject want to go through that kind >>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> impoverished >>>>>>>>>>>> tedium? These systems are obviously geared for "delivery". >>>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps the biggest cultural shift can be achieved >>>>>>>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>>>> instituting >>>>>>>>>>>> joint and personal enquiry. A teacher that stands before >>>>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>> class >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> delivers their subject inevitably obscures and obstructs >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> process >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> enquiry, although many students will have learnt from a >>>>>>>>>>>> young >>>>>>> age >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>> is what to expect and demand. Engagement with genuine >>>>>>>>>>>> problems >>>>>>>> rather >>>>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>> what students are expected to do is the basic orientational >>>>>>> issue. >>>>>>>>>>> Dispose >>>>>>>>>>>> of grades, then anyone who isn't interested is free to go >>>>> home. >>>>>>>>>>>>> The advance of STEM research is probably a good thing for >>>>>>> social >>>>>>>>>>> science. >>>>>>>>>>>>> For productive work, social science must understand the >>>>>>> structure >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> STEM based work, in addition to bureaucratic processes and >>>>>>>>>> circumstances >>>>>>>>>>>> for creative work. Sticking one's head in the sand over >>>>>>> STEM-like >>>>>>>>>>> research >>>>>>>>>>>> serves merely to perpetuate the impoverished side of social >>>>>>>> science. >>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>>>> reminds me of the scene in Pirsig's Zen and the Art of >>>>>>> Motorcycle >>>>>>>>>>>> Maintenance in which a couple lack the wherewithal to fix a >>>>>>>> dripping >>>>>>>>>>> faucet >>>>>>>>>>>> that gives them grief and instead choose to ignore it. >>>>>>>>>>>> Though it >>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> very >>>>>>>>>>>> long time ago, Pirsig's book may have contributed to my >>>>>>>> understanding >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> quality and might be thought of as an exploration of some >>>>>>>>>>>> social >>>>>>>>> issues >>>>>>>>>>>> pertaining to technical enterprises. Another good text to >>>>>>>> appreciate >>>>>>>>>>>> quality more directly, probably outside the formal area of >>>>>>> STEM, is >>>>>>>>>>>> Alshuller's Innovation Algorithm. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Warm regards to you Henry, Greg, Alfredo. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Huw >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25 February 2018 at 22:39, Alfredo Jornet Gil < >>>>>>>>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Greg, Huw, and others, I do often get worried that in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> formals >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> informal meetings at our department (department of >>>>>>> education), >>>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations tend to focus on the "micro" developments >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>> mention (students, grades, getting a next grant, getting >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> paper >>>>>>>>>>>>>> published, making sure you've got enough) most of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> time, >>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>>>>> much on what society we would like to have, and how our >>>>>>>>> institution >>>>>>>>>>>>>> could/should contribute to that. I do not have any >>>>>>> suggestions >>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> type of studies that you ask about?dealing with how >>>>>>> ecologies of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> scholarship in academia lead to given developmental >>>>>>>> dynamics?other >>>>>>>>>>>>>> than the classical studies in STS, like Latour & >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Woolgar's on laboratory life, or S. L. Star's. But when >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I look forward at >>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>> lies >>>>>>>>>>>>>> between me (or anyone in my institution) and a change in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>> way >>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>>>> institution has impact in the life of many, what I see >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>> lots >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> routines, habits, documents, and paperwork entangled in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> middle, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> such that the idea "mediation all the way through" makes >>>>>>>>>>>>>> all >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> sense. And seeing things that way (from the ecological >>>>>>>>> perspective), >>>>>>>>>>>>>> makes the possibility of changing things to look >>>>>>>>>>>>>> actually >>>>>>>>> feasible, >>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>> more accurately perhaps, imagine-able. I'd like to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> continue >>>>>>>> being >>>>>>>>>> part >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the ecology to be able to be also be part of its >>>>>>>>>>>>>> changing >>>>>>>> it. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> hope others will bring more specific literature to bear. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am >>>>>>>>>> already >>>>>>>>>>>> downloading some of Peter Sloterdijk's to read. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alfredo >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>> on behalf of Greg >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thompson >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: 24 February 2018 17:45 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I appreciate Huw's concern about academia and the push >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>> orient >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> broader and more systemic concern with "development". I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> this is what institutions of higher education are >>>>>>>>>>>>>> supposed to >>>>>>>>> have, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> right? - at the very least a concern for the development >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> individual >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "students", but also, one would hope, a concern for >>>>>>>> "development" >>>>>>>>>> at a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> longer timescale (e.g., how to be a better society, a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> better >>>>>>>>> world). >>>>>>>>>>>>>> They certainly tout these in their promo materials. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> And yet, in practice, these institutions often fall back >>>>>>>>>>>>>> on bureaucratic or economic logics. Bureaucratic logic >>>>>>>>>>>>>> goes >>>>>>>> something >>>>>>>>>>>>>> like, "just publish (in "good" (i.e., high impact >>>>>>>>>>>>>> factor) >>>>>>>>> journals), >>>>>>>>>>>>>> who cares what you publish so long as we can count it to >>>>>>>> determine >>>>>>>>>> its >>>>>>>>>>>> (and your) 'value'(!)". >>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for the economic logic, I was just talking with Rick >>>>>>> Shweder >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> other day about this issue and he expressed the concern >>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> push >>>>>>>>>>>>>> towards STEM education at the expense of all else and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the way >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> STEM buildings are slowly starting to take over his >>>>>>>>>>>>>> campus >>>>>>> (the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> University of Chicago - a place that was long held to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>> hold >>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> liberal arts education - apparently they now have an >>>>>>> engineering >>>>>>>>>>>>>> program). He suggested that this is tied to an early >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 80's >>>>>>> court >>>>>>>>>>>>>> decision that gave universities ownership of patents >>>>>>> developed >>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>>>> campuses. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To my mind, this calls to mind a concern with ecologies >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> development >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (across the shorter and longer timescales). What are the >>>>>>>> ecologies >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (social, economic, political, etc.) within which >>>>>>>>>>>>>> development >>>>>>> (at >>>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>>>>>>> various >>>>>>>>>>>>>> timescales) occurs in our world today? This is really a >>>>>>> question >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> what is possible and/or what is likely with regard to >>>>>>> becoming. >>>>>>>>> What >>>>>>>>>>>>>> are the forms of life and forms of development that are >>>>>>>>> sustainable >>>>>>>>>>>>>> given the larger ecologies in which that development >>>>> happens? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> And for thinking through that problem, I've had a hard >>>>>>>>>>>>>> time >>>>>>>>> thinking >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of anyone who has better thought through this problem >>>>>>>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>> Marx >>>>>>>> - >>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the longer timescale of development, that is (Vygotsky >>>>>>> would, of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> course, be better at thinking through development at the >>>>>>> shorter >>>>>>>>>>>>>> timescale of ontogeny). >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd love to hear others' thoughts on those who have >>>>>>>>>>>>>> studied >>>>>>>>>> activities >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that can begin to shed light on these ecologies of >>>>>>> development >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (particularly at the longer timescale). Any >>>>>>>> thoughts/suggestions? >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> would imagine this work considering various kinds of >>>>>>>> institutions >>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> run the gamut - from venture capitalist firms to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> non-profits >>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> governmental institutions to institutions of higher >>>>>>> education. I >>>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>>>>>>> presume that each of these kinds of institutions would >>>>>>>>>>>>>> have a >>>>>>>>> local >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ecology within which they work, but I am tempted to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> imagine >>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>>> kind >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of global meta-ecology (perhaps Marx's "global >>>>>>>>>>>>>> capitalism"?) within which each of these local ecologies >>>>>>>> operates. >>>>>>>>>> I'd >>>>>>>>>>>>>> be curious about actual research that has been done >>>>>>> documenting >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nature of these ecologies - e.g., what kinds of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> resources are available to be exploited? What kinds of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> possibilities are >>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> different forms of life? What institutional organisms >>>>>>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>> thrive? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which are dying off? (and just to be clear, I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>> intending a biological/evolutionary nature of the >>>>> metaphor). >>>>>>>>>>>>>> It seems that this kind of work would be most likely to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>> been >>>>>>>>>> done >>>>>>>>>>>>>> by folks in the CHAT world, but perhaps the scale (of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> time >>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> space) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is a bit beyond the scales that CHAT folks prefer to >>>>>>> consider? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (I should add that I've recently discovered the work of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Peter Sloterdijk's Bubbles trilogy and am curious if >>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyone has any >>>>>>>>>> thoughts >>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the value of his approach - it seems to fit very well >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>> Marx >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with CHAT/Vygotsky, my only initial concern was that he >>>>>>> seems to >>>>>>>>>> fly a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> little fast and loose with pyschoanalytics at times - >>>>>>>>>>>>>> not a >>>>>>>>> serious >>>>>>>>>>>>>> problem, but perhaps in a few places). >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sympathetically, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> greg >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 1:57 PM, Huw Lloyd < >>>>>>>>>> huw.softdesigns@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, I would say there is more to it than simply >>>>>>>>> transfer-ability, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which might be thought of as a good bureaucratic >>>>>>> requirement. >>>>>>>>>> Really >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what is required is genuine development -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reorganisation of >>>>>>>>>> thought >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> learning. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is what is significant at a personal level, which >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> basis >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> insights and creative work (i.e. personal knowledge >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rather >>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> second >>>>>>>>>>>>>> hand >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knowledge). The researcher in the blog article does not >>>>>>> evince >>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (with allusions to the nature of her training). There >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is the >>>>>>>>>> history >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school children learn, which largely concerns the use >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> memory, >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then there >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the history of conditions, relations and processes, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>> concerns >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> protracted thought. This developmental emphasis is what >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> lacking >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in institutions which is why I have frequently pointed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>> out. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This principle apples to "secure" jobs too. The jobs I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>> walked >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> away from have been due to the overly narrow scope, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where I >>>>>>>> felt >>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was necessary to be far more ambitious to achieve >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> modest satisfaction, an ambition which included >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> achieving the wider >>>>>>>>> scope >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> within the norms established. Similar issues pertain to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my peripheral engagement with academia. Twenty years >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ago, after completing a masters in cognitive >>>>>>>>>>>>>> science >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (a good year), I decided against pursuing any further >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> formal education >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any immediacy due to my sense that what I was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> encountering >>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> subject (and related subjects) was fundamentally wrong >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or inadequate, but I couldn't quite discern what that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was. So, >>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> me, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I had no interest in furthering the academic course at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> time, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because I was concerned with understanding, doing, >>>>>>> discovering >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> development, not being a "good researcher". I was and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> am uninterested in the trappings of academia, what it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looks >>>>>>> like >>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the outside (with dubious ethics of promoting those in >>>>>>> society >>>>>>>>> who >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> least need it) -- hence I am not too bothered about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experiences come from. After all, if you want sound >>>>>>> knowledge >>>>>>>>> then >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it should be validated in places where it counts (in >>>>>>> action), >>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>> an echo chamber of words. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From my (developmental) perspective academia appears >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be chockfull of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unproductive thinking. The lack of systems >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understanding in >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> social sciences (which has been pointed out by key >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> persons >>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> two >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generations) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find to be quite incredible. This, as far as I can see, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> panacea to the stasis and lethargy that I have seen in >>>>>>> certain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> institutions, where there are people in secure jobs >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with no >>>>>>>>>> interest >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in revitalising an institution (perhaps the same people >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who >>>>>>>> rely >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> upon their status for authority). In the UK, in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> social >>>>>>>>>> sciences, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the whole social science infrastructure is built upon a >>>>>>> notion >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quality that is ignorant of systems -- that is the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> degree to >>>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unproductive thinking has >>>>>>>>>>>>>> penetrated >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> social science. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yet there is much more to it still. Recently I have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>> come >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surprising awareness that developmental prerogatives >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>> rather >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> significant amount in common with spiritual ones. So I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>> offer >>>>>>>>>>>>>> broader >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> advice than Michael's of staying clear of hardship. It >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> may >>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "nadir" something surprising may be discovered. For >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyone >>>>>>>> with a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> passion "job security" is not a goal, at best it is a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> means >>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ends, at worst >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is an obstacle. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Over and out. :) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Huw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 20 February 2018 at 07:12, Alfredo Jornet Gil >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Huw, Helena, and all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thanks to you both for taking the discussion where I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>> hoping >>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> go >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> further: first, towards a reflection on the nature of >>>>>>> training >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> academic scholars go through as it concerns the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> classical >>>>>>>>> problem >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of learning "transfer"; and then, as it regards the >>>>>>> question >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> academic freedom >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (which >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actually may be the same question, just taken in a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> language >>>>>>>> more >>>>>>>>>>>>>> adequate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to an ecological understanding of the problem). This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> absolutely >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an individual problem. And, on that matter, I should >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>> clear >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> am a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> privileged in a privileged land, where, despite all >>>>>>>> uncertainty >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> pains >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that my family have gone and go through, I have today >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>> good >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> background >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> network, and probably better prospects than the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> majority of >>>>>>>>> junior >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> scholars >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out there. Not that I have earned this privilege for >>>>>>> nothing: >>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>>> migrant >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> history and that of my family is all connected to an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> effort >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quest >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get better chances of academic opportunity in this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> market >>>>>>>> Helena >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> talks about. But my personal story, as that of the >>>>>>> historian >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the article shared or of my French astronomer friend, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>> relevant >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in as far as >>>>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> help us reflect on just those questions. They really >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wonder >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the sense of the term "academic freedom", for the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> latter >>>>>>>> term >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cannot >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about doing whatever research you want to do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> independently >>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>>>>>>> market >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conditions and societal needs and economy. We may then >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pose >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> questions, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what type of "freedom" is the "freedom" current >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> systems (of incentives, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ISI lists) afford, and what type of system could allow >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> another >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meaning >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the term "freedom"? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not to get too abstract, I guess that those >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reflections >>>>>>> may be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> best pondered along concrete cases, if people is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> willing to >>>>>>>> take >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on Helena's suggestion to share particular stories of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all >>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> goes into getting >>>>>>>>>>>>>> into >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> secured academic job positions, or else, of pursuing >>>>>>>>> (in)dependent >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> careers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outside/at the borders of/across academia. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alfredo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on behalf of Helena Worthen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: 19 February 2018 19:19 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In the interests of widening the discussion: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I?ve described my work history before on this list ? >>>>>>>> basically, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> moving from teaching literature and writing (with >>>>>>> stopovers in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> landscape architecture and theater production) to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> concern >>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the working conditions of teachers, especially >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> academics in >>>>>>>>> higher >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> education, the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 75% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who are contingent/adjuncts. The concern is both for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>>>>>> employed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this way and for the integrity of the institutions >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>> employ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them. I eventually engaged this concern by working >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with and >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the labor >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> movement, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ending up first working for the garment/apparel >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> workers >>>>>>> union >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Philadelphia and then at the Labor Educaiton Program >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>> the U >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Illinois, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from which I retired in 2010. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The new twist to this story is about the employment of >>>>>>>> academics >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on short-term contracts in Viet Nam, under conditions >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> seem >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be increasingly frequent in the ?developing? world, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> market for education is booming. University World News >>>>>>>>> http://www >>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> universityworldnews.com/ tracks this phenomenon and >>>>>>> includes >>>>>>>>>>>>>> occasinal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> critical articles about the competition for rankings. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The university >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my husband and I have been teaching on and off since >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2015, >>>>>>> Ton >>>>>>>>> Duc >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thang >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ho Chi Minh City, recruits professors from all over >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>> world >>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a promise of $2,000 per month US ? but extending their >>>>>>>> contracts >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> depends >>>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> producing articles published in journals on the ISI >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list; >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nature of this list is worth taking a look at. The >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impact >>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice on the culture and student body is not all bad. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My point here is to place the issue of the challenge >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> getting >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tenure-track job in a global context. This is not just >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an individual problem. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I?m willing to go further down this line of discussion. >>>>>>>> However, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> academics >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are often reluctant to reveal and compare their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> working >>>>>>>>> conditions >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ?academic? discussion list. Maybe by putting up the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> issue >>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> academic >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> freedom requires, and how these requirements fare in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> global >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> market >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> higher education, we can shed the embarassment of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> revealing information about our own experiences with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> getting the >>>>>>> brass >>>>>>>>> ring >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of a full-time, secure job. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let?s see if anyone picks up on this. Maybe I?m being >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> too >>>>>>>> vague. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Helena Worthen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com Berkeley, CA 94707 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 510-828-2745 Blog US/ Viet Nam: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> skype: helena.worthen1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 19, 2018, at 9:19 AM, Huw Lloyd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The article describes accumulating large amounts of >>>>>>> knowledge >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pertaining >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> history, which (the author maintains) cannot be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turned to >>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> endeavours. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This, no doubt, is true for her. If, however, her >>>>>>> approach to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> studying >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> history had been systemic, then there would have been >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> powerful >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> form >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> re-application and continuity in any work that was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turned >>>>>>> to. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same can be said for "phd/postdoc training". If it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cannot >>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reused >>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> isn't enabling, what, substantively, is it? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Huw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 18 February 2018 at 18:32, Alfredo Jornet Gil < >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Really inspiring words and work, Francine. I do see >>>>>>>> community >>>>>>>>>>>>>> colleges >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many other educational settings apart from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> universities >>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> valuable >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and exciting opportunities; the PhD and following >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> postdoc >>>>>>>> etc >>>>>>>>>>>>>> training >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> universities, however, tend to be very much targeted >>>>>>>> towards a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> very >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> narrow >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spectrum of positions, or at least that's been my >>>>>>>> experience. >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> very >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happy that this thread may widen that scope and make >>>>>>> visible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> paths. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And as Mike suggested, it would be very interesting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>> hear >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> several >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others who have followed distinct trajectories apart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phd-postdoc-assist/assoc. prof-prof, and yet made a >>>>>>> career >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> touch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> most of what was developed in the junior (phd and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few >>>>>>> later) >>>>>>>>>>> years. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alfredo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> edu> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on behalf of Larry Smolucha >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: 18 February 2018 06:20 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Message from Francine Smolucha on a scholar's life >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> academia >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alfredo, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are other jobs that pay well (sometimes with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tenure >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> early retirement benefits) - besides professorships >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>> four >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> year colleges >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> universities. Administrative and support staff >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> positions >>>>>>>> pay >>>>>>>>>>> well. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't overlook community colleges, technical >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> colleges, >>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> public >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grade >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> schools and high schools. There is also the private >>>>>>> sector >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> government >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jobs. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As a 'low status' community college professor, I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> managed >>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> translate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Vygotsky's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> overlooked writings on creativity (back in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1980's) >>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> introduced >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theory of creativity to academia. I got early >>>>>>> retirement at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> age 53 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> continue to write and publish. While my Ph.D from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the University of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chicago >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gave me academic bona fides, it was the quality of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the scholarly >>>>>>>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ultimately mattered. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was always inspired by the harsh circumstances of >>>>>>>> Vygotsky's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> life >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how he still kept on writing. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [When I felt really sorry for myself, I would >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actually >>>>>>> say >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Well at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> least >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not coughing up blood"] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So many of his works were not published in his >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lifetime, >>>>>>> he >>>>>>>>> did >>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> collect a royalties check, and they say he was >>>>>>> depressed >>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> end >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his life. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I leave you with this quote from an ancient Sufi >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mystic - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You can't always get what you want but you can get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> edu> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on behalf of mike cole >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:07 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yours is a quandary shared by your generation, Alfredo. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Being allowed to teach and conduct research in a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quality institution >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great privilege and an increasingly rarer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possibility. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are several people on this list who have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> organized >>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lives >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> independent scholars while staying connected to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> core institutions of disciplinary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> training. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It might be nice to hear the variety out there. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It appears pretty certain that the situation is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going to >>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worse before/if it gets better. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What can the collective experience of xmca come up >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> useful to the many >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of you caught in this meat grinder? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mike >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good luck then, Wagner! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit < >>>>>>> wagner.schmit@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: 18 February 2018 01:07 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This just hit me in the spot... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wagner >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2018 9:48 PM, "Alfredo Jornet Gil" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have not been able to contribute to this list as >>>>>>> much as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd >>>>>>>>>>>>>> like >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lately, among other things, because I need to find >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>> job, >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make sure that I have checked all those boxes that >>>>>>>> selection >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> committees >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will check (enough first-authored publications? in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good enough >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> journals? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> acquiring >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> funds? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than all others candidates? and more than >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> favoured-for-whatever-other- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these >>>>>>> weeks >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fill >>>>>>>>>>>>>> up >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, although I did not think that it was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> particularly >>>>>>>> well >>>>>>>>>>>>>> written, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was both relieving and discouraging to read this >>>>>>> article >>>>>>>>> (see >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> link >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> below, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who >>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> subscribes this list). The article makes visible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>> pain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> scholars >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> go >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> through when, after so many years of digging and >>>>>>> digging >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> digging a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leave it >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who >>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> moving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the world with his lovely family, short-term >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> project >>>>>>> after >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> short-term >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> project, getting better and better at what he >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worked on >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (apparently >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> among the few who had expertise in computer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> modeling simulating >>>>>>>>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> astronomic events) , and finally having to step >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>> academia >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> last >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> year >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find something else to do, for his family no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> longer >>>>>>> could >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stand >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>> soon. >>>>>>>>> And >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> may >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the >>>>>>> story >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> endemic to academia and may be interesting to some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>> you: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Lo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ses- >>>>>>>>> When/24 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2560 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alfredo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Assistant Professor >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Department of Anthropology >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Provo, UT 84602 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>>>>>>>>>> Assistant Professor >>>>>>>>>>> Department of Anthropology >>>>>>>>>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >>>>>>>>>>> Brigham Young University >>>>>>>>>>> Provo, UT 84602 >>>>>>>>>>> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu >>>>>>>>>>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>>>>>>> Assistant Professor >>>>>>>> Department of Anthropology >>>>>>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >>>>>>>> Brigham Young University >>>>>>>> Provo, UT 84602 >>>>>>>> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu >>>>>>>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >>>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>>>>> Assistant Professor >>>>>> Department of Anthropology >>>>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >>>>>> Brigham Young University >>>>>> Provo, UT 84602 >>>>>> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu >>>>>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>>>> Assistant Professor >>>>> Department of Anthropology >>>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >>>>> Brigham Young University >>>>> Provo, UT 84602 >>>>> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu >>>>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >>>>> >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>>> Assistant Professor >>>> Department of Anthropology >>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >>>> Brigham Young University >>>> Provo, UT 84602 >>>> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu >>>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >>>> > From mcole@ucsd.edu Thu Mar 1 17:31:10 2018 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2018 17:31:10 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: [COGDEVSOC] tenure track position at Indiana State University In-Reply-To: <1519953397496.53133@indstate.edu> References: <1519953397496.53133@indstate.edu> Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Caitlin Brez Date: Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 5:16 PM Subject: [COGDEVSOC] tenure track position at Indiana State University To: "cogdevsoc@lists.cogdevsoc.org" Colleagues, Please see the link to the ad for our tenure track position in Psychology at Indiana State University. While the position is open, we are interested in candidates with experience in cognitive development. https://jobs.indstate.edu/postings/21143 Thanks, Caitlin Caitlin Brez, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Psychology Indiana State University Caitlin.Brez@indstate.edu _______________________________________________ To post to the CDS listserv, send your message to: cogdevsoc@lists.cogdevsoc.org (If you belong to the listserv and have not included any large attachments, your message will be posted without moderation--so be careful!) To subscribe or unsubscribe from the listserv, visit: http://lists.cogdevsoc.org/listinfo.cgi/cogdevsoc-cogdevsoc.org From andyb@marxists.org Thu Mar 1 18:38:14 2018 From: andyb@marxists.org (Andy Blunden) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2018 13:38:14 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In-Reply-To: <002e01d3b160$9b345030$d19cf090$@att.net> References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AEE329@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <1519887325986.67284@iped.uio.no> <68f7b914-1cd6-fbb6-52c5-8eddb56479c1@marxists.org> <78D1F34E-8C0B-4551-BBFA-3156D99443F3@iped.uio.no> <33117cce-e13a-4b89-a21c-6cac8f58cb4f@marxists.org> <002e01d3b160$9b345030$d19cf090$@att.net> Message-ID: <077941f0-ca25-117d-8ec1-18457ad826f5@marxists.org> I found this, Peg: http://feministhumanists.org/allyship Very hopeful. What I found about "intersectionality" was just sociological stuff, analysis, not really practical. Thanks again for the tips. Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm On 2/03/2018 12:24 AM, Peg Griffin wrote: > Hi, Andy, > I've been lurking a bit at the edges of the days and was glad to see your comment. > > I wanted to see if you've come across two concepts (maybe two and a half) that are developing and being exercised under the conditions here -- by here I mean across the US at the minimum. > The two "intersectionality," and "allyship," and the half is "rising." > "Intersectionality" was well critiqued and developed during the formation of the Women's March(es) and continues to have bouts of discussion, but the main thing is doing it. To define it, I'd probably say, "Any organized group in the (what is sometimes called the) "resisterhood" collaborates and cooperates and does no harm to any other group in the resisterhood." Practically it means packing the room/rally, sharing bird-dogging shifts/places, helping with permits, doing jail support, marching, marshalling, spreading the word about actions and resources as they become available. There isn't a hierarchical relation among the sections; the inter-sections are embodied in any member of a group who is, of course, in more than one section and that individual may prioritize one section over another at any given time. > "Allyship" (not yet in spell checker) is related to intersections but a tad different. It is built on the idea that any given group has people who are on the front line (and who have most weight in decisions) and others who may be front line in some other group but are allies in the group in question. There is ally training for long term involvement and shorter ones for specific actions. The training to be an allyis crucial and tough when the intersecting spreads over well-developed chasms in the society like race, gender, economic power/privilege. > Now about "rising" -- this is a word used naming or renaming groups. I first found it in the name of a nationwide group of indigenous peoples who nowadays act against drilling and pipelines and the economic institutions that finance them and act for clean water, air, lands, and social-cultural respect and rights. But it is in the names of other groups, including a grass roots group that provides trainings for grass roots organizers! I think main connotations are that the group with "rising" in its name is well-rooted and still emerging/developing/shaping itself. So far, it hasn't emerged as a super category. > > BTW, Catholic nuns got arrested in a Senate Office Building (notice what the initials can also signify) yesterday in a rotunda as they were being allies of DACA recipients and praying with their rosaries. These nuns were not the "nuns on a bus" who have been acting up for a few years now but from more central nunneries and the action was sponsored by Catholic Charities -- about as mainstream as it gets! > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden > Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2018 4:50 AM > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > Well, of course, you have a duty of solidarity which goes > beyond academia. > > Andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > On 1/03/2018 8:24 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: >> Andy, that?s a beautiful statement; and, if that which we together constitute and constitutes us is beyond our control (as the Marx quote Greg brought up states), it makes sense that communist society cannot as such be the goal, but the practice and duty of solidarity. Now, instituting solidarity as a practice in academia, that sounds like a challenging but powerfully driving task, right? >> >> Alfredo >> >>> On 1 Mar 2018, at 08:10, Andy Blunden wrote: >>> >>> In answer to your question, Alfredo, I think the point is >>> that "communism is not as such the goal of human development >>> ? the form of human society," but is essentially the >>> practice and duty of *solidarity*. To be a communist is to >>> act on the duty of solidarity to the best of one's ability. >>> The day when solidarity is universal, that is communism. >>> >>> Andy >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Andy Blunden >>> ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm >>>> On 1/03/2018 5:55 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: >>>> Absolutely Greg; fishing in the morning and criticising after dinner sounds really good to me! Marx's formulation seems totally relevant here, and his sounds like an ecological perspective too, but with subject, with content (where other formulations sound to me very useful, yet somehow content-less, abstract, I guess). But, where does a communist society begin? Or perhaps the question is, when does it begin? And what can current caught-up critical critics do to go fishing in the morning, apart from running races to secure steadily raising salaries in current society? Those well read Marxists could come handy here and give us a hand and help us getting started! >>>> Alfredo >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Greg Thompson >>>> Sent: 01 March 2018 05:47 >>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>> >>>> Michael G, >>>> Yes, I think you've really hit the nail on the head in pointing to the >>>> ecology within which academia sits. Apologies for being a gadfly here and >>>> simply pointing to a problem without pointing to a solution. >>>> >>>> How about we turn back to Marx?: >>>> >>>> "For as soon as the distribution of labour comes into being, each man has a >>>> particular, exclusive sphere of activity, which is forced upon him and from >>>> which he cannot escape. He is a hunter, a fisherman, a herdsman, or a >>>> critical critic, and must remain so if he does not want to lose his means >>>> of livelihood; while in communist society, where nobody has one exclusive >>>> sphere of activity but each can become accomplished in any branch he >>>> wishes, society regulates the general production and thus makes it possible >>>> for me to do one thing today and another tomorrow, to hunt in the morning, >>>> fish in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening, criticise after dinner, >>>> just as I have a mind, without ever becoming hunter, fisherman, herdsman or >>>> critic. This fixation of social activity, this consolidation of what we >>>> ourselves produce into an objective power above us, growing out of our >>>> control, thwarting our expectations, bringing to naught our calculations, >>>> is one of the chief factors in historical development up till now." >>>> >>>> In Marx's view, we can all be academics (i.e., "critical critics"). >>>> What do you think? >>>> -greg >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 8:26 PM, Glassman, Michael >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Greg, >>>>> >>>>> Here is my question. If we go to slow academics how do we determine on the >>>>> distribution of resources? If we give people a lot of time to conduct >>>>> their work who gets that time? >>>>> >>>>> I think the scarcity of academic resources is very much a corporate >>>>> phenomenon. There really should be enough resources for everybody to pursue >>>>> academics as they wish. >>>>> >>>>> The peer review system and the publish or perish ethos is deeply flawed >>>>> and causes a lot of research that shouldn't be done, let alone published. >>>>> But if not at least a semblance of a level playing field you get with blind >>>>> review then how do you decide who deserves the resources. Is it based on >>>>> connections, networks, who you know, where you went to school? Does >>>>> cultural capital become that much more important? Is this less democratic >>>>> or more democratic? >>>>> >>>>> To tell you the truth I don't know. The flaw is in the scarcity though, >>>>> not the system it seems to me. That we have allowed for a large academic >>>>> diaspora to emerge that is forced to teach for little money and no >>>>> benefits. Something we all allowed to happen. >>>>> >>>>> Michael >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >>>>> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Greg Thompson >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2018 9:10 PM >>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>> >>>>> (oh, and I didn't mean to be exclusive in pointing to Michael's work, >>>>> there are many others on the list who would fit this description!) >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 7:08 PM, Greg Thompson >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Yes, Michael, totally agreed. And I see you as a rare exception to the >>>>>> production mill. Whereas you manage to prolifically produce important >>>>>> writings, much of what is published is, to my mind, written too >>>>>> hurriedly and lacks the quality and importance of publications like >>>>> yours. >>>>>> -greg >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 5:33 PM, Wolff-Michael Roth < >>>>>> wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Greg, not all people will think being publishing machines. Some, like >>>>>>> myself, enjoy spending many hours a day writing, analyzing etc. and >>>>>>> turning all of this into peer-reviewed articles. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I referred to my earliest experience before, when I was told I would >>>>>>> not make tenure; and I felt I would not be able to make the 2 >>>>>>> articles or so per year in high quality journals. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But after an absence from academia, it changed. I started doing >>>>>>> research for myself initially, and then wrote it up. From then on, it >>>>>>> was different, writing was something I wanted to do, and the more I >>>>>>> did, the better I got at it. (Not that the peer-review process would >>>>>>> have gotten easier.) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I do admit, though, that the system as set up right now then tends to >>>>>>> reward people who publish more than others, and in "better" journals. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And it depends on context. In the department that I am affiliated >>>>>>> with, there are people promoted and tenured without at least a >>>>>>> handful of articles in commonly recognized journals. And if you are >>>>>>> happy with an average increase in your salary, you don't have to get >>>>>>> stressed in our place either. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Michael >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 4:04 PM, Greg Thompson >>>>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I once toyed with the idea of "slow scholarship" and I remain >>>>>>>> entirely convinced that this is a virtue. But once I was entered >>>>>>>> into the competition/race of academia, it was all about how fast >>>>>>>> you can get to >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> finish line (aka "publications"). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Perhaps there is something good about this (assuming that it is >>>>>>>> better >>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> publish something than to not publish anything), but it also has >>>>>>>> the nefarious effect of turning scholars into cogs in publishing >>>>> factories. >>>>>>>> And, continuing in this cynical spirit, I might add that the >>>>>>>> Science article about "Slow" actually seems to be making the same >>>>>>>> case for >>>>>>> speed - >>>>>>>> maybe it isn't a sprint, but it is still a race and first one to >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>> finish >>>>>>>> line wins, so you better pick up the pace! Fast! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And re: the man whispering in his ear as he runs: >>>>>>>> "We see how in this way the mode of production and the means of >>>>>>> production >>>>>>>> are continually transformed, revolutionised, *how the division of >>>>>>> labour is >>>>>>>> necessarily followed by greater divisions of labour, the >>>>>>>> application of machinery by still greater application of machinery, >>>>>>>> work on a large >>>>>>> scale >>>>>>>> by work on a still larger scale.* >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "That is the law which again and again throws bourgeois production >>>>>>>> out >>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> its old course and which compels capital to intensify the >>>>>>>> productive >>>>>>> forces >>>>>>>> of labour, *because *it has intensified them, it, the law which >>>>>>>> gives capital no rest and continually whispers in its ear: 'Go on! Go >>>>> on!'" >>>>>>>> (Marx - Wage Labour and Capital). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -greg? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 3:11 PM, Wolff-Michael Roth < >>>>>>>> wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>> this article "In praise of slow" appears to be fitting the >>>>> discussion. >>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>> author uses a nice analogy with running. Michael >>>>>>>>> http://science.sciencemag.org/content/359/6375/602 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 8:40 AM, Huw Lloyd >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> "Assessing their abilities and accomplishments in this regard >>>>>>>>>> was a >>>>>>>>> matter >>>>>>>>>> of judgment and so could not be quantified; it could be >>>>>>>>>> exercised >>>>>>> only >>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>> those capable of it." >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I would say, "cannot be quantified simply". >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>>> Huw >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 26 February 2018 at 15:05, Greg Thompson < >>>>>>> greg.a.thompson@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> And here is a nice article that speaks to the bureaucratic >>>>>>>>>>> logic >>>>>>>> that I >>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>> mentioning (the author refers to "the all-administrative >>>>>>>> institution"): >>>>>>>>>>> https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/whose-university-is-it- >>>>>>> anyway/#! >>>>>>>>>>> A quote from it: >>>>>>>>>>> "The revolution is over and the administrators have won. But >>>>>>>>>>> the persistence of traditional structures and language has >>>>>>>>>>> led some to >>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>> that the fight over the institution is now just beginning. >>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>> is a >>>>>>>>>>> mistake. As with most revolutions, open conflict occurs only >>>>>>>>>>> after >>>>>>>> real >>>>>>>>>>> power has already changed hands." >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -greg >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 6:27 PM, Martin Packer < >>>>>>> mpacker@cantab.net> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On STEM and social science: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> <>>>>>>>>>>> doctors-revolt-bernard-lown.html?action=click&pgtype= >>>>>>>>>>>> Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col- >>>>>>>>>>>> left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav= >>>>>>>>>>>> opinion-c-col-left-region >>>>>>>>>>> 02/24/opinion/sunday/doctors-revolt-bernard-lown.html? >>>>>>>>>>>> action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading& >>>>>>>>>>>> module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c-col- >>>>>>>>>>>> left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On measures of learning: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> - measure-learning-outcomes.html?action=click&pgtype= >>>>>>>>>>>> Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col- >>>>>>>>>>>> left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav= >>>>>>>>>>>> opinion-c-col-left-region >>>>>>>>>>> 02/23/opinion/sunday/colleges-measure-learning-outcomes. >>>>>>>>>>>> html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story- >>>>>>>>>>>> heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c- >>>>>>>>>>>> col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Martin >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 25, 2018, at 8:15 PM, Glassman, Michael < >>>>>>>>> glassman.13@osu.edu> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Huw, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps the opposite is also true though. STEM >>>>>>>>>>>>> researchers >>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>> better >>>>>>>>>>>> understand what they are doing if they are well versed in >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> social >>>>>>>>>>>> sciences. Understand the history and the meaning of what >>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>> doing >>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>>> they do not act as androids (sorry, been watching the >>>>>>>>>>>> Aliens >>>>>>>> trilogy >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> late). Perhaps we made the wrong calculation. We have lost >>>>>>> control >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> our >>>>>>>>>>>> great STEM innovations because the people using them don't >>>>>>>> understand >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> social webs that they create. So we have people pushing >>>>>>>>>>>> xMOOCs >>>>>>>>>> (whatever >>>>>>>>>>>> happened to MOOCs anyway) as saving education (and also a >>>>>>> bundle so >>>>>>>>>>>> everybody gets tax cuts, wheeee!), saying that they are >>>>>>>>>>>> good >>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>> can reach many, the proverbial long tail, with great >>>>>>>>>>>> education >>>>>>>>>> (Harvard, >>>>>>>>>>>> Stanford). Yet nobody asks the question, "Why is this a >>>>>>>>>>>> good >>>>>>>> thing." >>>>>>>>>>> There >>>>>>>>>>>> really isn't much supporting this in earlier distance >>>>> education. >>>>>>>>> There >>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>> actually more evidence of how dangerous it is >>>>>>>>>>>> (Participatory >>>>>>> Action >>>>>>>>>>>> Research). >>>>>>>>>>>>> Michael >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >>>>>>>>>>>> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Huw Lloyd >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2018 7:32 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I would ask, what makes you think you have an ecology (or >>>>>>> niche)? >>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>>>> seems that the notion of topologically derived ecologies is >>>>>>> still >>>>>>>>>> bandied >>>>>>>>>>>> about since Bronfenbrenner (1977), though I do not know >>>>>>>>>>>> whether >>>>>>> he >>>>>>>>>>> managed >>>>>>>>>>>> to refine (overhaul and improve) his notions into something >>>>>>>>> integrated >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> agent-centric. One does not provide an ecology or an >>>>>>> environment. >>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>>>> environment is different for everyone, a simple >>>>>>>>>>>> consideration >>>>>>> of a >>>>>>>>>>>> rock-face or climbing wall is sufficient to grasp this -- >>>>>>>>>>>> the so >>>>>>>>> called >>>>>>>>>>>> environment (the rock face) is different to each climber, >>>>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>>> environment >>>>>>>>>>>> is that which is appropriate to them which includes >>>>>>>>>>>> contexts >>>>>>> well >>>>>>>>>> beyond >>>>>>>>>>>> what is established in an institution. From what I can >>>>>>>>>>>> gauge, >>>>>>>>>>> historically, >>>>>>>>>>>> slack was deliberately introduced into courses to afford >>>>>>> personal >>>>>>>>>>> enquiry. >>>>>>>>>>>>> There was the basic work and then there was the genuine >>>>>>> enquiry. >>>>>>>>> Who >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>> their right mind wants to write an exam essay on a question >>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>> expected to pre-write and repeat by memory? Why would >>>>>>>>>>>> someone >>>>>>> who >>>>>>>>>> enjoys >>>>>>>>>>>> thinking about their subject want to go through that kind >>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> impoverished >>>>>>>>>>>> tedium? These systems are obviously geared for "delivery". >>>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps the biggest cultural shift can be achieved >>>>>>>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>>>> instituting >>>>>>>>>>>> joint and personal enquiry. A teacher that stands before >>>>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>> class >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> delivers their subject inevitably obscures and obstructs >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> process >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> enquiry, although many students will have learnt from a >>>>>>>>>>>> young >>>>>>> age >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>> is what to expect and demand. Engagement with genuine >>>>>>>>>>>> problems >>>>>>>> rather >>>>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>> what students are expected to do is the basic orientational >>>>>>> issue. >>>>>>>>>>> Dispose >>>>>>>>>>>> of grades, then anyone who isn't interested is free to go >>>>> home. >>>>>>>>>>>>> The advance of STEM research is probably a good thing for >>>>>>> social >>>>>>>>>>> science. >>>>>>>>>>>>> For productive work, social science must understand the >>>>>>> structure >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> STEM based work, in addition to bureaucratic processes and >>>>>>>>>> circumstances >>>>>>>>>>>> for creative work. Sticking one's head in the sand over >>>>>>> STEM-like >>>>>>>>>>> research >>>>>>>>>>>> serves merely to perpetuate the impoverished side of social >>>>>>>> science. >>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>>>> reminds me of the scene in Pirsig's Zen and the Art of >>>>>>> Motorcycle >>>>>>>>>>>> Maintenance in which a couple lack the wherewithal to fix a >>>>>>>> dripping >>>>>>>>>>> faucet >>>>>>>>>>>> that gives them grief and instead choose to ignore it. >>>>>>>>>>>> Though it >>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> very >>>>>>>>>>>> long time ago, Pirsig's book may have contributed to my >>>>>>>> understanding >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> quality and might be thought of as an exploration of some >>>>>>>>>>>> social >>>>>>>>> issues >>>>>>>>>>>> pertaining to technical enterprises. Another good text to >>>>>>>> appreciate >>>>>>>>>>>> quality more directly, probably outside the formal area of >>>>>>> STEM, is >>>>>>>>>>>> Alshuller's Innovation Algorithm. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Warm regards to you Henry, Greg, Alfredo. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Huw >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25 February 2018 at 22:39, Alfredo Jornet Gil < >>>>>>>>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Greg, Huw, and others, I do often get worried that in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> formals >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> informal meetings at our department (department of >>>>>>> education), >>>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations tend to focus on the "micro" developments >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>> mention (students, grades, getting a next grant, getting >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> paper >>>>>>>>>>>>>> published, making sure you've got enough) most of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> time, >>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>>>>> much on what society we would like to have, and how our >>>>>>>>> institution >>>>>>>>>>>>>> could/should contribute to that. I do not have any >>>>>>> suggestions >>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> type of studies that you ask about?dealing with how >>>>>>> ecologies of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> scholarship in academia lead to given developmental >>>>>>>> dynamics?other >>>>>>>>>>>>>> than the classical studies in STS, like Latour & >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Woolgar's on laboratory life, or S. L. Star's. But when >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I look forward at >>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>> lies >>>>>>>>>>>>>> between me (or anyone in my institution) and a change in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>> way >>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>>>> institution has impact in the life of many, what I see >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>> lots >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> routines, habits, documents, and paperwork entangled in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> middle, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> such that the idea "mediation all the way through" makes >>>>>>>>>>>>>> all >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> sense. And seeing things that way (from the ecological >>>>>>>>> perspective), >>>>>>>>>>>>>> makes the possibility of changing things to look >>>>>>>>>>>>>> actually >>>>>>>>> feasible, >>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>> more accurately perhaps, imagine-able. I'd like to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> continue >>>>>>>> being >>>>>>>>>> part >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the ecology to be able to be also be part of its >>>>>>>>>>>>>> changing >>>>>>>> it. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> hope others will bring more specific literature to bear. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am >>>>>>>>>> already >>>>>>>>>>>> downloading some of Peter Sloterdijk's to read. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alfredo >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>> on behalf of Greg >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thompson >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: 24 February 2018 17:45 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I appreciate Huw's concern about academia and the push >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>> orient >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> broader and more systemic concern with "development". I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> this is what institutions of higher education are >>>>>>>>>>>>>> supposed to >>>>>>>>> have, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> right? - at the very least a concern for the development >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> individual >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "students", but also, one would hope, a concern for >>>>>>>> "development" >>>>>>>>>> at a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> longer timescale (e.g., how to be a better society, a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> better >>>>>>>>> world). >>>>>>>>>>>>>> They certainly tout these in their promo materials. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> And yet, in practice, these institutions often fall back >>>>>>>>>>>>>> on bureaucratic or economic logics. Bureaucratic logic >>>>>>>>>>>>>> goes >>>>>>>> something >>>>>>>>>>>>>> like, "just publish (in "good" (i.e., high impact >>>>>>>>>>>>>> factor) >>>>>>>>> journals), >>>>>>>>>>>>>> who cares what you publish so long as we can count it to >>>>>>>> determine >>>>>>>>>> its >>>>>>>>>>>> (and your) 'value'(!)". >>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for the economic logic, I was just talking with Rick >>>>>>> Shweder >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> other day about this issue and he expressed the concern >>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> push >>>>>>>>>>>>>> towards STEM education at the expense of all else and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the way >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> STEM buildings are slowly starting to take over his >>>>>>>>>>>>>> campus >>>>>>> (the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> University of Chicago - a place that was long held to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>> hold >>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> liberal arts education - apparently they now have an >>>>>>> engineering >>>>>>>>>>>>>> program). He suggested that this is tied to an early >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 80's >>>>>>> court >>>>>>>>>>>>>> decision that gave universities ownership of patents >>>>>>> developed >>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>>>> campuses. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To my mind, this calls to mind a concern with ecologies >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> development >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (across the shorter and longer timescales). What are the >>>>>>>> ecologies >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (social, economic, political, etc.) within which >>>>>>>>>>>>>> development >>>>>>> (at >>>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>>>>>>> various >>>>>>>>>>>>>> timescales) occurs in our world today? This is really a >>>>>>> question >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> what is possible and/or what is likely with regard to >>>>>>> becoming. >>>>>>>>> What >>>>>>>>>>>>>> are the forms of life and forms of development that are >>>>>>>>> sustainable >>>>>>>>>>>>>> given the larger ecologies in which that development >>>>> happens? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> And for thinking through that problem, I've had a hard >>>>>>>>>>>>>> time >>>>>>>>> thinking >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of anyone who has better thought through this problem >>>>>>>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>> Marx >>>>>>>> - >>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the longer timescale of development, that is (Vygotsky >>>>>>> would, of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> course, be better at thinking through development at the >>>>>>> shorter >>>>>>>>>>>>>> timescale of ontogeny). >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd love to hear others' thoughts on those who have >>>>>>>>>>>>>> studied >>>>>>>>>> activities >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that can begin to shed light on these ecologies of >>>>>>> development >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (particularly at the longer timescale). Any >>>>>>>> thoughts/suggestions? >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> would imagine this work considering various kinds of >>>>>>>> institutions >>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> run the gamut - from venture capitalist firms to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> non-profits >>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> governmental institutions to institutions of higher >>>>>>> education. I >>>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>>>>>>> presume that each of these kinds of institutions would >>>>>>>>>>>>>> have a >>>>>>>>> local >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ecology within which they work, but I am tempted to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> imagine >>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>>> kind >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of global meta-ecology (perhaps Marx's "global >>>>>>>>>>>>>> capitalism"?) within which each of these local ecologies >>>>>>>> operates. >>>>>>>>>> I'd >>>>>>>>>>>>>> be curious about actual research that has been done >>>>>>> documenting >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nature of these ecologies - e.g., what kinds of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> resources are available to be exploited? What kinds of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> possibilities are >>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> different forms of life? What institutional organisms >>>>>>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>> thrive? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which are dying off? (and just to be clear, I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>> intending a biological/evolutionary nature of the >>>>> metaphor). >>>>>>>>>>>>>> It seems that this kind of work would be most likely to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>> been >>>>>>>>>> done >>>>>>>>>>>>>> by folks in the CHAT world, but perhaps the scale (of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> time >>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> space) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is a bit beyond the scales that CHAT folks prefer to >>>>>>> consider? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (I should add that I've recently discovered the work of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Peter Sloterdijk's Bubbles trilogy and am curious if >>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyone has any >>>>>>>>>> thoughts >>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the value of his approach - it seems to fit very well >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>> Marx >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with CHAT/Vygotsky, my only initial concern was that he >>>>>>> seems to >>>>>>>>>> fly a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> little fast and loose with pyschoanalytics at times - >>>>>>>>>>>>>> not a >>>>>>>>> serious >>>>>>>>>>>>>> problem, but perhaps in a few places). >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sympathetically, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> greg >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 1:57 PM, Huw Lloyd < >>>>>>>>>> huw.softdesigns@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, I would say there is more to it than simply >>>>>>>>> transfer-ability, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which might be thought of as a good bureaucratic >>>>>>> requirement. >>>>>>>>>> Really >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what is required is genuine development -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reorganisation of >>>>>>>>>> thought >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> learning. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is what is significant at a personal level, which >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> basis >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> insights and creative work (i.e. personal knowledge >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rather >>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> second >>>>>>>>>>>>>> hand >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knowledge). The researcher in the blog article does not >>>>>>> evince >>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (with allusions to the nature of her training). There >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is the >>>>>>>>>> history >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school children learn, which largely concerns the use >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> memory, >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then there >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the history of conditions, relations and processes, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>> concerns >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> protracted thought. This developmental emphasis is what >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> lacking >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in institutions which is why I have frequently pointed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>> out. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This principle apples to "secure" jobs too. The jobs I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>> walked >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> away from have been due to the overly narrow scope, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where I >>>>>>>> felt >>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was necessary to be far more ambitious to achieve >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> modest satisfaction, an ambition which included >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> achieving the wider >>>>>>>>> scope >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> within the norms established. Similar issues pertain to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my peripheral engagement with academia. Twenty years >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ago, after completing a masters in cognitive >>>>>>>>>>>>>> science >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (a good year), I decided against pursuing any further >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> formal education >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any immediacy due to my sense that what I was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> encountering >>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> subject (and related subjects) was fundamentally wrong >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or inadequate, but I couldn't quite discern what that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was. So, >>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> me, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I had no interest in furthering the academic course at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> time, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because I was concerned with understanding, doing, >>>>>>> discovering >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> development, not being a "good researcher". I was and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> am uninterested in the trappings of academia, what it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looks >>>>>>> like >>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the outside (with dubious ethics of promoting those in >>>>>>> society >>>>>>>>> who >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> least need it) -- hence I am not too bothered about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experiences come from. After all, if you want sound >>>>>>> knowledge >>>>>>>>> then >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it should be validated in places where it counts (in >>>>>>> action), >>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>> an echo chamber of words. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From my (developmental) perspective academia appears >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be chockfull of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unproductive thinking. The lack of systems >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understanding in >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> social sciences (which has been pointed out by key >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> persons >>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> two >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generations) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find to be quite incredible. This, as far as I can see, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> panacea to the stasis and lethargy that I have seen in >>>>>>> certain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> institutions, where there are people in secure jobs >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with no >>>>>>>>>> interest >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in revitalising an institution (perhaps the same people >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who >>>>>>>> rely >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> upon their status for authority). In the UK, in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> social >>>>>>>>>> sciences, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the whole social science infrastructure is built upon a >>>>>>> notion >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quality that is ignorant of systems -- that is the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> degree to >>>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unproductive thinking has >>>>>>>>>>>>>> penetrated >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> social science. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yet there is much more to it still. Recently I have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>> come >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surprising awareness that developmental prerogatives >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>> rather >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> significant amount in common with spiritual ones. So I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>> offer >>>>>>>>>>>>>> broader >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> advice than Michael's of staying clear of hardship. It >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> may >>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "nadir" something surprising may be discovered. For >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyone >>>>>>>> with a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> passion "job security" is not a goal, at best it is a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> means >>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ends, at worst >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is an obstacle. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Over and out. :) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Huw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 20 February 2018 at 07:12, Alfredo Jornet Gil >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Huw, Helena, and all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thanks to you both for taking the discussion where I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>> hoping >>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> go >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> further: first, towards a reflection on the nature of >>>>>>> training >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> academic scholars go through as it concerns the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> classical >>>>>>>>> problem >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of learning "transfer"; and then, as it regards the >>>>>>> question >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> academic freedom >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (which >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actually may be the same question, just taken in a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> language >>>>>>>> more >>>>>>>>>>>>>> adequate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to an ecological understanding of the problem). This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> absolutely >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an individual problem. And, on that matter, I should >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>> clear >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> am a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> privileged in a privileged land, where, despite all >>>>>>>> uncertainty >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> pains >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that my family have gone and go through, I have today >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>> good >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> background >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> network, and probably better prospects than the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> majority of >>>>>>>>> junior >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> scholars >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out there. Not that I have earned this privilege for >>>>>>> nothing: >>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>>> migrant >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> history and that of my family is all connected to an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> effort >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quest >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get better chances of academic opportunity in this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> market >>>>>>>> Helena >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> talks about. But my personal story, as that of the >>>>>>> historian >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the article shared or of my French astronomer friend, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>> relevant >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in as far as >>>>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> help us reflect on just those questions. They really >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wonder >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the sense of the term "academic freedom", for the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> latter >>>>>>>> term >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cannot >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about doing whatever research you want to do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> independently >>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>>>>>>> market >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conditions and societal needs and economy. We may then >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pose >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> questions, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what type of "freedom" is the "freedom" current >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> systems (of incentives, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ISI lists) afford, and what type of system could allow >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> another >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meaning >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the term "freedom"? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not to get too abstract, I guess that those >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reflections >>>>>>> may be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> best pondered along concrete cases, if people is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> willing to >>>>>>>> take >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on Helena's suggestion to share particular stories of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all >>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> goes into getting >>>>>>>>>>>>>> into >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> secured academic job positions, or else, of pursuing >>>>>>>>> (in)dependent >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> careers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outside/at the borders of/across academia. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alfredo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on behalf of Helena Worthen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: 19 February 2018 19:19 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In the interests of widening the discussion: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I?ve described my work history before on this list ? >>>>>>>> basically, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> moving from teaching literature and writing (with >>>>>>> stopovers in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> landscape architecture and theater production) to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> concern >>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the working conditions of teachers, especially >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> academics in >>>>>>>>> higher >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> education, the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 75% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who are contingent/adjuncts. The concern is both for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>>>>>> employed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this way and for the integrity of the institutions >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>> employ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them. I eventually engaged this concern by working >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with and >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the labor >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> movement, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ending up first working for the garment/apparel >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> workers >>>>>>> union >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Philadelphia and then at the Labor Educaiton Program >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>> the U >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Illinois, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from which I retired in 2010. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The new twist to this story is about the employment of >>>>>>>> academics >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on short-term contracts in Viet Nam, under conditions >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> seem >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be increasingly frequent in the ?developing? world, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> market for education is booming. University World News >>>>>>>>> http://www >>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> universityworldnews.com/ tracks this phenomenon and >>>>>>> includes >>>>>>>>>>>>>> occasinal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> critical articles about the competition for rankings. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The university >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my husband and I have been teaching on and off since >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2015, >>>>>>> Ton >>>>>>>>> Duc >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thang >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ho Chi Minh City, recruits professors from all over >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>> world >>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a promise of $2,000 per month US ? but extending their >>>>>>>> contracts >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> depends >>>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> producing articles published in journals on the ISI >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list; >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nature of this list is worth taking a look at. The >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impact >>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice on the culture and student body is not all bad. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My point here is to place the issue of the challenge >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> getting >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tenure-track job in a global context. This is not just >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an individual problem. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I?m willing to go further down this line of discussion. >>>>>>>> However, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> academics >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are often reluctant to reveal and compare their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> working >>>>>>>>> conditions >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ?academic? discussion list. Maybe by putting up the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> issue >>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> academic >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> freedom requires, and how these requirements fare in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> global >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> market >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> higher education, we can shed the embarassment of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> revealing information about our own experiences with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> getting the >>>>>>> brass >>>>>>>>> ring >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of a full-time, secure job. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let?s see if anyone picks up on this. Maybe I?m being >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> too >>>>>>>> vague. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Helena Worthen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com Berkeley, CA 94707 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 510-828-2745 Blog US/ Viet Nam: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> skype: helena.worthen1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 19, 2018, at 9:19 AM, Huw Lloyd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The article describes accumulating large amounts of >>>>>>> knowledge >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pertaining >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> history, which (the author maintains) cannot be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turned to >>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> endeavours. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This, no doubt, is true for her. If, however, her >>>>>>> approach to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> studying >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> history had been systemic, then there would have been >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> powerful >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> form >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> re-application and continuity in any work that was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turned >>>>>>> to. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same can be said for "phd/postdoc training". If it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cannot >>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reused >>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> isn't enabling, what, substantively, is it? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Huw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 18 February 2018 at 18:32, Alfredo Jornet Gil < >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Really inspiring words and work, Francine. I do see >>>>>>>> community >>>>>>>>>>>>>> colleges >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many other educational settings apart from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> universities >>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> valuable >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and exciting opportunities; the PhD and following >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> postdoc >>>>>>>> etc >>>>>>>>>>>>>> training >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> universities, however, tend to be very much targeted >>>>>>>> towards a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> very >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> narrow >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spectrum of positions, or at least that's been my >>>>>>>> experience. >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> very >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happy that this thread may widen that scope and make >>>>>>> visible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> paths. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And as Mike suggested, it would be very interesting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>> hear >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> several >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others who have followed distinct trajectories apart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phd-postdoc-assist/assoc. prof-prof, and yet made a >>>>>>> career >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> touch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> most of what was developed in the junior (phd and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few >>>>>>> later) >>>>>>>>>>> years. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alfredo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> edu> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on behalf of Larry Smolucha >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: 18 February 2018 06:20 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Message from Francine Smolucha on a scholar's life >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> academia >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alfredo, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are other jobs that pay well (sometimes with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tenure >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> early retirement benefits) - besides professorships >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>> four >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> year colleges >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> universities. Administrative and support staff >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> positions >>>>>>>> pay >>>>>>>>>>> well. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't overlook community colleges, technical >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> colleges, >>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> public >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grade >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> schools and high schools. There is also the private >>>>>>> sector >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> government >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jobs. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As a 'low status' community college professor, I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> managed >>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> translate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Vygotsky's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> overlooked writings on creativity (back in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1980's) >>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> introduced >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theory of creativity to academia. I got early >>>>>>> retirement at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> age 53 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> continue to write and publish. While my Ph.D from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the University of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chicago >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gave me academic bona fides, it was the quality of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the scholarly >>>>>>>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ultimately mattered. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was always inspired by the harsh circumstances of >>>>>>>> Vygotsky's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> life >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how he still kept on writing. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [When I felt really sorry for myself, I would >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actually >>>>>>> say >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Well at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> least >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not coughing up blood"] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So many of his works were not published in his >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lifetime, >>>>>>> he >>>>>>>>> did >>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> collect a royalties check, and they say he was >>>>>>> depressed >>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> end >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his life. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I leave you with this quote from an ancient Sufi >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mystic - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You can't always get what you want but you can get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> edu> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on behalf of mike cole >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:07 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yours is a quandary shared by your generation, Alfredo. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Being allowed to teach and conduct research in a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quality institution >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great privilege and an increasingly rarer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possibility. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are several people on this list who have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> organized >>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lives >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> independent scholars while staying connected to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> core institutions of disciplinary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> training. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It might be nice to hear the variety out there. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It appears pretty certain that the situation is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going to >>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worse before/if it gets better. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What can the collective experience of xmca come up >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> useful to the many >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of you caught in this meat grinder? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mike >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good luck then, Wagner! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit < >>>>>>> wagner.schmit@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: 18 February 2018 01:07 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This just hit me in the spot... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wagner >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2018 9:48 PM, "Alfredo Jornet Gil" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have not been able to contribute to this list as >>>>>>> much as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd >>>>>>>>>>>>>> like >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lately, among other things, because I need to find >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>> job, >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make sure that I have checked all those boxes that >>>>>>>> selection >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> committees >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will check (enough first-authored publications? in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good enough >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> journals? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> acquiring >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> funds? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than all others candidates? and more than >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> favoured-for-whatever-other- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these >>>>>>> weeks >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fill >>>>>>>>>>>>>> up >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, although I did not think that it was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> particularly >>>>>>>> well >>>>>>>>>>>>>> written, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was both relieving and discouraging to read this >>>>>>> article >>>>>>>>> (see >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> link >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> below, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who >>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> subscribes this list). The article makes visible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>> pain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> scholars >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> go >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> through when, after so many years of digging and >>>>>>> digging >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> digging a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leave it >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who >>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> moving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the world with his lovely family, short-term >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> project >>>>>>> after >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> short-term >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> project, getting better and better at what he >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worked on >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (apparently >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> among the few who had expertise in computer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> modeling simulating >>>>>>>>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> astronomic events) , and finally having to step >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>> academia >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> last >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> year >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find something else to do, for his family no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> longer >>>>>>> could >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stand >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>> soon. >>>>>>>>> And >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> may >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the >>>>>>> story >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> endemic to academia and may be interesting to some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>> you: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Lo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ses- >>>>>>>>> When/24 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2560 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alfredo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Assistant Professor >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Department of Anthropology >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Provo, UT 84602 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>>>>>>>>>> Assistant Professor >>>>>>>>>>> Department of Anthropology >>>>>>>>>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >>>>>>>>>>> Brigham Young University >>>>>>>>>>> Provo, UT 84602 >>>>>>>>>>> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu >>>>>>>>>>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>>>>>>> Assistant Professor >>>>>>>> Department of Anthropology >>>>>>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >>>>>>>> Brigham Young University >>>>>>>> Provo, UT 84602 >>>>>>>> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu >>>>>>>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >>>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>>>>> Assistant Professor >>>>>> Department of Anthropology >>>>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >>>>>> Brigham Young University >>>>>> Provo, UT 84602 >>>>>> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu >>>>>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>>>> Assistant Professor >>>>> Department of Anthropology >>>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >>>>> Brigham Young University >>>>> Provo, UT 84602 >>>>> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu >>>>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >>>>> >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>>> Assistant Professor >>>> Department of Anthropology >>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >>>> Brigham Young University >>>> Provo, UT 84602 >>>> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu >>>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >>>> > From pmocombe@mocombeian.com Sat Mar 3 08:20:24 2018 From: pmocombe@mocombeian.com (Dr. Paul C. Mocombe) Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2018 11:20:24 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: Invitation to the Call for Papers: Reconstructing the Social Sciences and Humanities: Antenor Firmin, Western Intellectual Tradition, and Black Atlantic Thought and Culture In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <201803031620.w23GKbZx007299@mailman.ucsd.edu> Fyi... Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note8, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message --------From: Celucien Joseph Date: 3/2/18 9:12 PM (GMT-05:00) To: glodel mezilas , "Louis, Bertin Magloire" , Nixon Cleophat , tammie jenkins , Moussa Traore , Patrick Delices , "Dr. Paul C. Mocombe" , Jean Poincy , Jhon Picard Byron , Brandon Byrd , Leslie Alexander , gina ulysse , Dr Judite BLANC , Asselin Charles , "Hebblethwaite,Benjamin John" , Wideline Seraphin , Charlene Desir , "Kaiama L. Glover" , Lewis Ampidu CLORMEUS , Lewis , bennuinstitute@yahoo.com, nboaduo@wsu.ac.za, nanaadupipimboaduo@gmail.com, car318@psu.edu, asselinch@yahoo.com, Myriam Mompoint , "Esther I. Rodriguez Miranda" , "Alexander, William H." , Rob Taber , eddy , Joshua Clough , Charlotte Hammond , Kantara Souffrant , "Souffrant, Kantara" , Crystal Felima , Barbara Lewis , "Pereira, Emmanuel" , Schallum Pierre , Wiebke Beushausen , Patricia Donatien-Yssa , Wilson D?cembre Subject: Invitation to the Call for Papers: Reconstructing the Social Sciences and Humanities: Antenor Firmin, Western Intellectual Tradition, and Black Atlantic Thought and Culture Dear Friends, I hope this message finds you well. I'm sending a special invitation to you because we have previously collaborated in a book project. I value your scholarship and the rigor of your research. Dr. Paul Mocombe and I will be coediting an important on Joseph Antenor Firmin; hence, I would like to invite you to contribute a book chapter to this important project. Below, you will find the content of the Call for Papers: ? Call for Papers Reconstructing the Social Sciences and Humanities: Antenor Firmin, Western Intellectual Tradition, and Black Atlantic Thought and Culture Editors: Celucien L. Joseph, PhD, Paul Mocombe, PhD ? Description: Joseph Antenor Firmin (1850-1911) was the reigning public intellectual and political critic in Haiti in the nineteenth-century. Firmin was the first ?Black anthropologist? and ?Black Egyptologist? to deconstruct Western interpretation of global history and challenge the ideological construction of human nature and theories of knowledge in Western social sciences and the humanities?through his interdisciplinary tour-de-force De l??galit? des races humaines (anthropologie positive) (1885), translated in the English language as The Equality of the Human Races: Positivist Anthropology (2002) by Asselin Charles. In this seminal monograph, Firmin interrogated the conventional boundaries of research methods in the social sciences and humanities in the eighteenth-century and nineteenth-century, respectively?although the social sciences came to be recognized as distinct disciplines of thought until the nineteenth-century. His research was influenced by the philosophy of positivism, grounded in the ideas of the French philosopher Auguste Comte (1798?1857), to critique the traditional approaches to and the contemporary theories of human origin, civilization, history, culture, and research representation. As the 18th-century Scottish empiricist David Hume, Firmin was correspondingly concerned about the ?relations of ideas? in the scientific inquiry and the underlying fundamental notions and objectives of various fields or disciplines of knowledge of that era. His political theory about the constitution of the nation-states and the formation of modern societies were equally driven by the political and sociological methods and theories of that period; yet, Firmin was discontent about the ideological impulses and epistemological presuppositions of these cultural-political phenomena and dynamics. Through his other intellectual, political, and diplomatic writings and commentaries?such as Ha?ti au point de vue politique, administratif et ?conomique : conf?rence faite au Grand cercle de Paris (1891), Ha?ti et la France (1891), Une d?fense (1892), Diplomate et diplomatie : lettre ouverte ? M. Solon M?nos (1899), M. Roosevelt, pr?sident des ?tats-Unis et la R?publique?d?Ha?ti (1905), Lettres de Saint Thomas. ?tudes sociologiques, historiques et?litt?raires (1910), and L?effort dans le mal (1911) ? Firmin?s intellectual motif was animated by a spirit of dispassionate and rational inquiry. He articulated an alternative way to study global historical trajectories, the political life, human societies and interactions, and the diplomatic relations and dynamics between the nations and the races. The sociological dimension of Firmin?s thought not only reassesses the history of the social thought of his period, but stresses the complex factors and forces that contributed to the (economic) development of human societies and cultures, and the concept of advanced and less-advanced civilizations in the modern world. For example, Firmin?s revisionist history makes a clarion call to acknowledge the ?Black Genesis? of human origin and the manifold contribution of pre-colonial Africa to universal civilization and human flourishing, in both ancient history and modern history. The Firminian turn in social sciences and the humanities, and in anthropology in particular was a discursive discourse that questioned the ideological premises of theories of knowledge and the myth of a ?superior race,? and the logic of Western interpretation of global history and the historical narrative about ancient African history and culture. This Call for Papers is an attempt to meditate intellectually on the intellectual life, writings, and the legacy of Joseph Antenor Firmin. This project not only presents Firmin as a deconstructionist of the social sciences and humanities and theories of knowledge articulated in Western history of ideas and social thought of his era; it also accentuates his manifold contribution to these distinct fields of thought. As an anti-racist intellectual and cosmopolitan thinker, Firmin challenges Western idea of the colonial subject, race achievement, and modernity?s imagination of a linear narrative of progress and reason based on the false premises of social evolution and development, colonial history and epistemology, and the intellectual evolution of the Aryan-White race. For Firmin, these Western-European fault-lines and intellectual transgressions had deferred the work of universal progress, the international alliance between the nations, peoples, and the races of the world, and the cosmopolitan orientation toward phileo love and mutual respect. Firmin anticipates the de-colonial option as a potential remedy to cure the shortcomings of (Western) modernity and the intellectual decadence in Western interpretation of human nature and society, history, and development. For Firmin, the remapping of the geography of reason and the intellectual reconfigurations of epistemology could be the veritable solution to the problems of social sciences and the humanities, and to the race question in the modern world?leading to an ethics of cosmopolitan humanism and the possibility of living together as members of one human race. Subsequently, in his work, Firmin projects a two-fold objective presented as a concurrent intellectual event: (1) to deconstruct the conventional contours of social sciences and the humanities and the theories of knowledge about the races and peoples in the modern world for the advancement of the human race, and (2) to reconstruct race and articulate a more accurate narrative of societal development and human evolution, from a post-colonial imagination resulting into a new positive narrative of human societies, global history, and human understanding?toward? the common good. Firmin?s revisionist approach to anthropology, sociology, and ancient and modern history was motivated by a genuine desire to correct European perspective on the idea of a ?single modernity;? by consequence, he suggested both parallel and alternative modernities and corresponding civilizations. ?The Firminian project of creative deconstruction, positivism, and reconstruction of human historical narrative and theories of knowledge anticipates the renewal of humanity and the possibilities of imagining future possibilities with an emancipative hope and intent.? Firmin?s primary argument is that the history of the world, in the strictest sense of the term, is not a racial accomplishment, the accomplishment of whiteness. In response, Firmin proposed alternative modernities whose foundations and ethical frameworks are non-European and pre-Western. Reconstructing the Social Sciences and Humanities is a special volume on Joseph Antenor Firmin that reexamines the importance of his thought and legacy, and the relevance of his ideas for contemporary social sciences and the humanities in the academia, the twenty-first century?s culture of humanism, and the continuing challenge of race and racism. This volume seeks to fill in the intellectual gaps of Firmin?s work in the Anglophone world. Modern scholarship on the writings of Firmin is scarce in the Anglophone world, and as the ?first black anthropologist? in the Western world, contemporary anthropology, both in the United States and elsewhere in the Anglophone community, has not given serious attention to the importance and complexity of his ideas in the discipline and its cognates. Firmin?s contribution to the discipline of anthropology, sociology, political theory, history, and comparative study has been overlooked by both American and European thinkers. The reexamination of Firmin?s thought is significant for contemporary research in both social sciences and the humanities, ancient history, Black and Pan-African Studies, ancient African history, and particularly, the renewed scholarly interests in Haiti and Haitian Studies in North America. This volume explores various dimensions in Joseph Antenor Firmin?s thought and his role as theorist, anthropologist, cultural critic, public intellectual, diplomat, political scientist, pan-Africanist, and humanist. If you would like to contribute a book chapter to this important volume, along with your CV, please submit a 300-word abstract by Wednesday, June 27, 2018, to Dr. Celucien Joseph @ celucienjoseph@gmail.com, and Dr. Paul Mocombe @ pmocombe@mocombeian.com ? Successful applicants will be notified of acceptance on Wednesday, July 25, 2018. The first chapter draft is due Wednesday, November 28, 2018. The 17th edition of the Chicago Manual of Style is required. We are looking for original and unpublished essays for this book. Translations of Firmin?s writings in the English language are also welcome. Potential topics to be addressed include (but are not limited to) the following: I.?????????????????? The Person, Choices, and Ideas of Joseph Antenor Firmin ? ????????? The Education of Joseph Antenor Firmin ????????? The (Scientific) Ideas of Joseph Antenor Firmin ????????? The intellectual life of Joseph Antenor Firmin ????????? Firmin and the Scientific Method of the nineteenth-century ????????? Firmin as (Black) Anthropologist ????????? Firmin as Humanist and Cosmopolitan ????????? Firmin as Agnostic ????????? Firmin as Theorist ????????? Firmin as Positivist thinker ????????? The political philosophy and democratic ideas of Joseph ?Firmin ????????? The ethical and moral worldview of Joseph Firmin ? ? II.??????????????? Firmin & Haiti ? ????????? Firmin in Haitian History and Politics ????????? Firmin in Haitian Intellectual Tradition ????????? Firmin?s interpretation of Haitian intellectual history ????????? Haitian heroes and heroines in the writings of Firmin ????????? Haitian exceptionalism in the writings of Firmin ????????? The Education of the Haitian people in the writings of Firmin ????????? Firm and the economic development of Haiti ????????? The Political career of Antenor Firmin ????????? Haitian Nationalism and Patriotism in Firmin?s thought ????????? Firmin and the future of Haiti in the twenty-first century ? III.???????????? Firmin, Africa, and the African Diaspora ? ????????? Firmin in Africana and Black Intellectual Tradition ????????? Firmin in Caribbean Politics and History ????????? Africa in the work of Firmin ????????? Firmin and Pan-Africanism ????????? Firmin and Afrocentrism ????????? Firmin and Ancient Egyptian Civilization (Egyptology) ????????? Firmin and the education and miseducation of Blacks ????????? Firmin and the concept of ?Black progress? ????????? Firmin and the Future of the Africa and African Diaspora in the twenty-first century ????????? The Vindication and Rehabilitation of the Black Race ????????? The Role and Contributions of Pre-colonial African civilizations to world civilizations ? IV.???????????? Firmin, Social Sciences, and the Western World ? ????????? Firmin and Western History of Ideas ????????? Firmin, modernity, and the European Enlightenment ????????? Firmin and Scientific Racism of the Nineteenth-century ????????? Firmin?s critique of Wester Epistemology ????????? Firmin and the discipline of Anthropology ????????? Firmin and the discipline of History ????????? Firmin and the discipline of Sociology ????????? Firmin and the discipline of Philosophy ????????? The influence of Auguste Compte?s positivism on Firmin ????????? The Concept of human progress in Firmin ????????? Firmin and Count Joseph Arthur de Gobineau ????????? Firmin and European Philosophical Tradition ????????? Firmin and European Racism ????????? Firmin and Western Imperialism ????????? Firmin and Revisionist History ????????? Firmin and the Logic of human history ????????? Firmin and Marxism ? ? V.??????????????? Firmin, the Humanities, and the World ?? ? ????????? Firmin and theories of knowledge ????????? The concept of human nature in Firmin ????????? The ?race question? in the work of Firmin ????????? Firmin and the Theology of race ????????? Firmin and the concept of culture ????????? ?Vindication? as an intellectual method in Firmin ????????? The religious traditions in the work of Antenor Firmin ????????? The concept of science in the work of Antenor Firmin ????????? Firmin and the equality of the human races ????????? Firmin and American diplomatic politics and relations ????????? Firmin and the Decolonial Method ????????? Firmin and the Postcolonial theory ????????? Firmin and Critical Race Theory ????????? Firmin and the Problem of Imperialism ????????? Firmin and the Pitfalls of Capitalism We look forward to receiving your abstract and collaborating with you in this important project. Sincerely, Celucien L. Joseph, PhD. Paul Mocombe, PhD. About the editors ? Celucien L. Joseph (PhD., University of Texas at Dallas; PhD., University of Pretoria) is Professor of English at Indian River State College. His recent books include Thinking in Public: Faith, Secular Humanism, and Development in Jacques Roumain (Wipf and Stock Publishers, 2017), and Between Two Worlds: Jean Price-Mars, Haiti, and Africa (Lexington Books, 2018), which he co-edited with Jean Eddy Saint Paul and Glodel Mezilas. ? Paul C. Mocombe (PhD., Florida Atlantic University) is former Visiting Professor of Philosophy and Sociology at Bethune Cookman University and Assistant Professor of Philosophy and Sociology at West Virginia State University and the President/CEO of The Mocombeian Foundation, Inc.? A social theorist interested in the application of social theory to contemporary issues such as race, class, and capitalism (globalization), he is the author of, Jesus and the Streets; Race and Class Distinctions Within Black Communities; Language, Literacy, and Pedagogy in Postindustrial Societies; A labor Approach to the Development of the Self or Modern Personality: The Case of Public Education, Education in Globalization; Mocombe?s Reading Room Series; and The Mocombeian Strategy: The Reason for, and Answer to Black Failure in Capitalist Education. ? I look forward to hearing from you. Celucien Sincerely, Celucien L. Joseph, Ph.D. Assistant Professor of English Indian River State College 772-462-7708 cjoseph@irsc.edu "Remember the Poor"--Galatians 2:10 From pmocombe@mocombeian.com Sat Mar 3 08:23:11 2018 From: pmocombe@mocombeian.com (Dr. Paul C. Mocombe) Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2018 11:23:11 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: Invitation to the Call for Papers: Reconstructing the Social Sciences and Humanities: Antenor Firmin, Western Intellectual Tradition, and Black Atlantic Thought and Culture In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <201803031623.w23GNKgS008487@mailman.ucsd.edu> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note8, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message --------From: Celucien Joseph Date: 3/2/18 9:12 PM (GMT-05:00) To: glodel mezilas , "Louis, Bertin Magloire" , Nixon Cleophat , tammie jenkins , Moussa Traore , Patrick Delices , "Dr. Paul C. Mocombe" , Jean Poincy , Jhon Picard Byron , Brandon Byrd , Leslie Alexander , gina ulysse , Dr Judite BLANC , Asselin Charles , "Hebblethwaite,Benjamin John" , Wideline Seraphin , Charlene Desir , "Kaiama L. Glover" , Lewis Ampidu CLORMEUS , Lewis , bennuinstitute@yahoo.com, nboaduo@wsu.ac.za, nanaadupipimboaduo@gmail.com, car318@psu.edu, asselinch@yahoo.com, Myriam Mompoint , "Esther I. Rodriguez Miranda" , "Alexander, William H." , Rob Taber , eddy , Joshua Clough , Charlotte Hammond , Kantara Souffrant , "Souffrant, Kantara" , Crystal Felima , Barbara Lewis , "Pereira, Emmanuel" , Schallum Pierre , Wiebke Beushausen , Patricia Donatien-Yssa , Wilson D?cembre Subject: Invitation to the Call for Papers: Reconstructing the Social Sciences and Humanities: Antenor Firmin, Western Intellectual Tradition, and Black Atlantic Thought and Culture Dear Friends, I hope this message finds you well. I'm sending a special invitation to you because we have previously collaborated in a book project. I value your scholarship and the rigor of your research. Dr. Paul Mocombe and I will be coediting an important on Joseph Antenor Firmin; hence, I would like to invite you to contribute a book chapter to this important project. Below, you will find the content of the Call for Papers: ? Call for Papers Reconstructing the Social Sciences and Humanities: Antenor Firmin, Western Intellectual Tradition, and Black Atlantic Thought and Culture Editors: Celucien L. Joseph, PhD, Paul Mocombe, PhD ? Description: Joseph Antenor Firmin (1850-1911) was the reigning public intellectual and political critic in Haiti in the nineteenth-century. Firmin was the first ?Black anthropologist? and ?Black Egyptologist? to deconstruct Western interpretation of global history and challenge the ideological construction of human nature and theories of knowledge in Western social sciences and the humanities?through his interdisciplinary tour-de-force De l??galit? des races humaines (anthropologie positive) (1885), translated in the English language as The Equality of the Human Races: Positivist Anthropology (2002) by Asselin Charles. In this seminal monograph, Firmin interrogated the conventional boundaries of research methods in the social sciences and humanities in the eighteenth-century and nineteenth-century, respectively?although the social sciences came to be recognized as distinct disciplines of thought until the nineteenth-century. His research was influenced by the philosophy of positivism, grounded in the ideas of the French philosopher Auguste Comte (1798?1857), to critique the traditional approaches to and the contemporary theories of human origin, civilization, history, culture, and research representation. As the 18th-century Scottish empiricist David Hume, Firmin was correspondingly concerned about the ?relations of ideas? in the scientific inquiry and the underlying fundamental notions and objectives of various fields or disciplines of knowledge of that era. His political theory about the constitution of the nation-states and the formation of modern societies were equally driven by the political and sociological methods and theories of that period; yet, Firmin was discontent about the ideological impulses and epistemological presuppositions of these cultural-political phenomena and dynamics. Through his other intellectual, political, and diplomatic writings and commentaries?such as Ha?ti au point de vue politique, administratif et ?conomique : conf?rence faite au Grand cercle de Paris (1891), Ha?ti et la France (1891), Une d?fense (1892), Diplomate et diplomatie : lettre ouverte ? M. Solon M?nos (1899), M. Roosevelt, pr?sident des ?tats-Unis et la R?publique?d?Ha?ti (1905), Lettres de Saint Thomas. ?tudes sociologiques, historiques et?litt?raires (1910), and L?effort dans le mal (1911) ? Firmin?s intellectual motif was animated by a spirit of dispassionate and rational inquiry. He articulated an alternative way to study global historical trajectories, the political life, human societies and interactions, and the diplomatic relations and dynamics between the nations and the races. The sociological dimension of Firmin?s thought not only reassesses the history of the social thought of his period, but stresses the complex factors and forces that contributed to the (economic) development of human societies and cultures, and the concept of advanced and less-advanced civilizations in the modern world. For example, Firmin?s revisionist history makes a clarion call to acknowledge the ?Black Genesis? of human origin and the manifold contribution of pre-colonial Africa to universal civilization and human flourishing, in both ancient history and modern history. The Firminian turn in social sciences and the humanities, and in anthropology in particular was a discursive discourse that questioned the ideological premises of theories of knowledge and the myth of a ?superior race,? and the logic of Western interpretation of global history and the historical narrative about ancient African history and culture. This Call for Papers is an attempt to meditate intellectually on the intellectual life, writings, and the legacy of Joseph Antenor Firmin. This project not only presents Firmin as a deconstructionist of the social sciences and humanities and theories of knowledge articulated in Western history of ideas and social thought of his era; it also accentuates his manifold contribution to these distinct fields of thought. As an anti-racist intellectual and cosmopolitan thinker, Firmin challenges Western idea of the colonial subject, race achievement, and modernity?s imagination of a linear narrative of progress and reason based on the false premises of social evolution and development, colonial history and epistemology, and the intellectual evolution of the Aryan-White race. For Firmin, these Western-European fault-lines and intellectual transgressions had deferred the work of universal progress, the international alliance between the nations, peoples, and the races of the world, and the cosmopolitan orientation toward phileo love and mutual respect. Firmin anticipates the de-colonial option as a potential remedy to cure the shortcomings of (Western) modernity and the intellectual decadence in Western interpretation of human nature and society, history, and development. For Firmin, the remapping of the geography of reason and the intellectual reconfigurations of epistemology could be the veritable solution to the problems of social sciences and the humanities, and to the race question in the modern world?leading to an ethics of cosmopolitan humanism and the possibility of living together as members of one human race. Subsequently, in his work, Firmin projects a two-fold objective presented as a concurrent intellectual event: (1) to deconstruct the conventional contours of social sciences and the humanities and the theories of knowledge about the races and peoples in the modern world for the advancement of the human race, and (2) to reconstruct race and articulate a more accurate narrative of societal development and human evolution, from a post-colonial imagination resulting into a new positive narrative of human societies, global history, and human understanding?toward? the common good. Firmin?s revisionist approach to anthropology, sociology, and ancient and modern history was motivated by a genuine desire to correct European perspective on the idea of a ?single modernity;? by consequence, he suggested both parallel and alternative modernities and corresponding civilizations. ?The Firminian project of creative deconstruction, positivism, and reconstruction of human historical narrative and theories of knowledge anticipates the renewal of humanity and the possibilities of imagining future possibilities with an emancipative hope and intent.? Firmin?s primary argument is that the history of the world, in the strictest sense of the term, is not a racial accomplishment, the accomplishment of whiteness. In response, Firmin proposed alternative modernities whose foundations and ethical frameworks are non-European and pre-Western. Reconstructing the Social Sciences and Humanities is a special volume on Joseph Antenor Firmin that reexamines the importance of his thought and legacy, and the relevance of his ideas for contemporary social sciences and the humanities in the academia, the twenty-first century?s culture of humanism, and the continuing challenge of race and racism. This volume seeks to fill in the intellectual gaps of Firmin?s work in the Anglophone world. Modern scholarship on the writings of Firmin is scarce in the Anglophone world, and as the ?first black anthropologist? in the Western world, contemporary anthropology, both in the United States and elsewhere in the Anglophone community, has not given serious attention to the importance and complexity of his ideas in the discipline and its cognates. Firmin?s contribution to the discipline of anthropology, sociology, political theory, history, and comparative study has been overlooked by both American and European thinkers. The reexamination of Firmin?s thought is significant for contemporary research in both social sciences and the humanities, ancient history, Black and Pan-African Studies, ancient African history, and particularly, the renewed scholarly interests in Haiti and Haitian Studies in North America. This volume explores various dimensions in Joseph Antenor Firmin?s thought and his role as theorist, anthropologist, cultural critic, public intellectual, diplomat, political scientist, pan-Africanist, and humanist. If you would like to contribute a book chapter to this important volume, along with your CV, please submit a 300-word abstract by Wednesday, June 27, 2018, to Dr. Celucien Joseph @ celucienjoseph@gmail.com, and Dr. Paul Mocombe @ pmocombe@mocombeian.com ? Successful applicants will be notified of acceptance on Wednesday, July 25, 2018. The first chapter draft is due Wednesday, November 28, 2018. The 17th edition of the Chicago Manual of Style is required. We are looking for original and unpublished essays for this book. Translations of Firmin?s writings in the English language are also welcome. Potential topics to be addressed include (but are not limited to) the following: I.?????????????????? The Person, Choices, and Ideas of Joseph Antenor Firmin ? ????????? The Education of Joseph Antenor Firmin ????????? The (Scientific) Ideas of Joseph Antenor Firmin ????????? The intellectual life of Joseph Antenor Firmin ????????? Firmin and the Scientific Method of the nineteenth-century ????????? Firmin as (Black) Anthropologist ????????? Firmin as Humanist and Cosmopolitan ????????? Firmin as Agnostic ????????? Firmin as Theorist ????????? Firmin as Positivist thinker ????????? The political philosophy and democratic ideas of Joseph ?Firmin ????????? The ethical and moral worldview of Joseph Firmin ? ? II.??????????????? Firmin & Haiti ? ????????? Firmin in Haitian History and Politics ????????? Firmin in Haitian Intellectual Tradition ????????? Firmin?s interpretation of Haitian intellectual history ????????? Haitian heroes and heroines in the writings of Firmin ????????? Haitian exceptionalism in the writings of Firmin ????????? The Education of the Haitian people in the writings of Firmin ????????? Firm and the economic development of Haiti ????????? The Political career of Antenor Firmin ????????? Haitian Nationalism and Patriotism in Firmin?s thought ????????? Firmin and the future of Haiti in the twenty-first century ? III.???????????? Firmin, Africa, and the African Diaspora ? ????????? Firmin in Africana and Black Intellectual Tradition ????????? Firmin in Caribbean Politics and History ????????? Africa in the work of Firmin ????????? Firmin and Pan-Africanism ????????? Firmin and Afrocentrism ????????? Firmin and Ancient Egyptian Civilization (Egyptology) ????????? Firmin and the education and miseducation of Blacks ????????? Firmin and the concept of ?Black progress? ????????? Firmin and the Future of the Africa and African Diaspora in the twenty-first century ????????? The Vindication and Rehabilitation of the Black Race ????????? The Role and Contributions of Pre-colonial African civilizations to world civilizations ? IV.???????????? Firmin, Social Sciences, and the Western World ? ????????? Firmin and Western History of Ideas ????????? Firmin, modernity, and the European Enlightenment ????????? Firmin and Scientific Racism of the Nineteenth-century ????????? Firmin?s critique of Wester Epistemology ????????? Firmin and the discipline of Anthropology ????????? Firmin and the discipline of History ????????? Firmin and the discipline of Sociology ????????? Firmin and the discipline of Philosophy ????????? The influence of Auguste Compte?s positivism on Firmin ????????? The Concept of human progress in Firmin ????????? Firmin and Count Joseph Arthur de Gobineau ????????? Firmin and European Philosophical Tradition ????????? Firmin and European Racism ????????? Firmin and Western Imperialism ????????? Firmin and Revisionist History ????????? Firmin and the Logic of human history ????????? Firmin and Marxism ? ? V.??????????????? Firmin, the Humanities, and the World ?? ? ????????? Firmin and theories of knowledge ????????? The concept of human nature in Firmin ????????? The ?race question? in the work of Firmin ????????? Firmin and the Theology of race ????????? Firmin and the concept of culture ????????? ?Vindication? as an intellectual method in Firmin ????????? The religious traditions in the work of Antenor Firmin ????????? The concept of science in the work of Antenor Firmin ????????? Firmin and the equality of the human races ????????? Firmin and American diplomatic politics and relations ????????? Firmin and the Decolonial Method ????????? Firmin and the Postcolonial theory ????????? Firmin and Critical Race Theory ????????? Firmin and the Problem of Imperialism ????????? Firmin and the Pitfalls of Capitalism We look forward to receiving your abstract and collaborating with you in this important project. Sincerely, Celucien L. Joseph, PhD. Paul Mocombe, PhD. About the editors ? Celucien L. Joseph (PhD., University of Texas at Dallas; PhD., University of Pretoria) is Professor of English at Indian River State College. His recent books include Thinking in Public: Faith, Secular Humanism, and Development in Jacques Roumain (Wipf and Stock Publishers, 2017), and Between Two Worlds: Jean Price-Mars, Haiti, and Africa (Lexington Books, 2018), which he co-edited with Jean Eddy Saint Paul and Glodel Mezilas. ? Paul C. Mocombe (PhD., Florida Atlantic University) is former Visiting Professor of Philosophy and Sociology at Bethune Cookman University and Assistant Professor of Philosophy and Sociology at West Virginia State University and the President/CEO of The Mocombeian Foundation, Inc.? A social theorist interested in the application of social theory to contemporary issues such as race, class, and capitalism (globalization), he is the author of, Jesus and the Streets; Race and Class Distinctions Within Black Communities; Language, Literacy, and Pedagogy in Postindustrial Societies; A labor Approach to the Development of the Self or Modern Personality: The Case of Public Education, Education in Globalization; Mocombe?s Reading Room Series; and The Mocombeian Strategy: The Reason for, and Answer to Black Failure in Capitalist Education. ? I look forward to hearing from you. Celucien Sincerely, Celucien L. Joseph, Ph.D. Assistant Professor of English Indian River State College 772-462-7708 cjoseph@irsc.edu "Remember the Poor"--Galatians 2:10 From annalisa@unm.edu Sat Mar 3 08:34:55 2018 From: annalisa@unm.edu (Annalisa Aguilar) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2018 16:34:55 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Nakesha Message-ID: Hello fellow Xmcars, I wish there were technology that didn't send us to the moon, but instead refused to let anyone be homeless while fervently advocating for anyone to contribute their best gifts and insights. I noticed this today in the NYT and the sentence below stood out to me in particular. I thought it was a wonderful activity for children. Or maybe adults? "Once, she said, Nakesha had each student invent a holiday and write about how it would be celebrated, the values it promoted and what artifacts would be involved." https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/03/nyregion/nyc-homeless-nakesha-mental-illness.html kind regards, Annalisa From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Sat Mar 3 09:05:40 2018 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2018 17:05:40 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Nakesha In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1520096740199.29106@iped.uio.no> Thanks for sharing, Annalisa. Really nice case story a la Oliver Sacks. I have yet to read the whole, but, 3900 unsheltered homeless people just in New York City??? I had never been in the US until I moved to live a couple of years in BC, Canada, and the first time I got the chance to visit the US was San Francisco, for a conference. I was there only the time strictly needed to go to bed, wake up, walk to the conference venue in SF downtown, and back to the hotel in the evening to leave early next morning. In my brief walk, I got to see more homeless people that I had never seen before, and I remember thinking that, if that scene I saw would suddenly occur in a city in Spain (where I am from) or Norway, there would be a social alarm and everyone would be talking about that all the time. Of course, I also thought that letting down the thousands of Syria refugees that the Spanish government had committed to host but never did would also cause a huge alarm and revolt... but nothing has happened. Yet, the issue in the US cities looks totally bizarre for an outsider's sight. Alfredo ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Annalisa Aguilar Sent: 03 March 2018 17:34 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Nakesha Hello fellow Xmcars, I wish there were technology that didn't send us to the moon, but instead refused to let anyone be homeless while fervently advocating for anyone to contribute their best gifts and insights. I noticed this today in the NYT and the sentence below stood out to me in particular. I thought it was a wonderful activity for children. Or maybe adults? "Once, she said, Nakesha had each student invent a holiday and write about how it would be celebrated, the values it promoted and what artifacts would be involved." https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/03/nyregion/nyc-homeless-nakesha-mental-illness.html kind regards, Annalisa From helenaworthen@gmail.com Sat Mar 3 09:09:22 2018 From: helenaworthen@gmail.com (Helena Worthen) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2018 09:09:22 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In-Reply-To: References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> <1518914964416.39650@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: <2996E8BF-CB5B-4C69-99F6-B09F5C0B701B@gmail.com> I?m late in adding to this discussion, but I don?t think anyone else has responded to MIke?s question directly. What can the collective experience of xmca come up with? Maybe it?s so obvious it doesn?t need saying. The dscussion itself is collective, along with the ISCAR conferences, the MCA journal, the openness of participants to share resources, review, comment and criticize ? sending around whole books when possible. It?s an ongoing colletive experience. An occasional reference to the academic labor market is a healthy and welcome reality check but the discussion itself is the collective resoruce. Helena Worthen helenaworthen@gmail.com Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 Blog US/ Viet Nam: helenaworthen.wordpress.com skype: helena.worthen1 > On Feb 17, 2018, at 5:07 PM, mike cole wrote: > > Yours is a quandary shared by your generation, Alfredo. > Being allowed to teach and conduct research in a quality institution is a > great privilege and an > increasingly rarer possibility. > > There are several people on this list who have organized their lives to be > independent scholars > while staying connected to the core institutions of disciplinary training. > It might be nice to hear > the variety out there. > > It appears pretty certain that the situation is going to get worse > before/if it gets better. > > What can the collective experience of xmca come up with that would be > useful to the many > of you caught in this meat grinder? > > mike > > > > On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > wrote: > >> Good luck then, Wagner! >> A >> ________________________________________ >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit >> Sent: 18 February 2018 01:07 >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >> >> This just hit me in the spot... >> >> Wagner >> >> On Feb 17, 2018 9:48 PM, "Alfredo Jornet Gil" wrote: >> >>> I have not been able to contribute to this list as much as I'd like to >>> lately, among other things, because I need to find a job, and I need to >>> make sure that I have checked all those boxes that selection committees >>> will check (enough first-authored publications? in good enough journals? >>> enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? acquiring funds? >> more >>> than all others candidates? and more than favoured-for-whatever-other- >> reasons >>> candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these weeks to fill up a >>> competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. >>> >>> >>> And, although I did not think that it was particularly well written, it >>> was both relieving and discouraging to read this article (see link below, >>> which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague who I think also >>> subscribes this list). The article makes visible the pain scholars go >>> through when, after so many years of digging and digging and digging a >>> little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to leave it and find some >> other >>> thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer who was moving through >>> the world with his lovely family, short-term project after short-term >>> project, getting better and better at what he worked on (apparently he >> was >>> among the few who had expertise in computer modeling simulating some >>> astronomic events) , and finally having to step out academia last year to >>> find something else to do, for his family no longer could stand the >>> constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be me soon. And that may >> not >>> be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the story seems to be >> quite >>> endemic to academia and may be interesting to some of you: >>> >>> >>> https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Loses-When/242560 >>> >>> Alfredo >>> >>> >>> >> >> From kindred.jessica@gmail.com Sat Mar 3 09:25:53 2018 From: kindred.jessica@gmail.com (Jessica Kindred) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2018 12:25:53 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Nakesha In-Reply-To: <1520096740199.29106@iped.uio.no> References: <1520096740199.29106@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: <6BD9F25E-E5A2-4FC5-86D9-DB166DFD6DDD@gmail.com> I also remember my shock at the homelessness in San Francisco. I think part of it, coming from New York, was that so much of it was actually on the street. In New York, it tends to be underground in the subway us or in shelters, and of course, sometimes on the actual street as well. I recently was in Denver Colorado, and was shocked at the number of people lining sidewalks and I asking for money at crosswalks. That is to say, American homelessness is shocking even from an inside the US point of view. Jessie K. On Mar 3, 2018, at 12:05 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: Thanks for sharing, Annalisa. Really nice case story a la Oliver Sacks. I have yet to read the whole, but, 3900 unsheltered homeless people just in New York City??? I had never been in the US until I moved to live a couple of years in BC, Canada, and the first time I got the chance to visit the US was San Francisco, for a conference. I was there only the time strictly needed to go to bed, wake up, walk to the conference venue in SF downtown, and back to the hotel in the evening to leave early next morning. In my brief walk, I got to see more homeless people that I had never seen before, and I remember thinking that, if that scene I saw would suddenly occur in a city in Spain (where I am from) or Norway, there would be a social alarm and everyone would be talking about that all the time. Of course, I also thought that letting down the thousands of Syria refugees that the Spanish government had committed to host but never did would also cause a huge alarm and revolt... but nothing has happened. Yet, the issue in the US cities looks totally bizarre for an outsider's sight. Alfredo ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Annalisa Aguilar Sent: 03 March 2018 17:34 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Nakesha Hello fellow Xmcars, I wish there were technology that didn't send us to the moon, but instead refused to let anyone be homeless while fervently advocating for anyone to contribute their best gifts and insights. I noticed this today in the NYT and the sentence below stood out to me in particular. I thought it was a wonderful activity for children. Or maybe adults? "Once, she said, Nakesha had each student invent a holiday and write about how it would be celebrated, the values it promoted and what artifacts would be involved." https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/03/nyregion/nyc-homeless-nakesha-mental-illness.html kind regards, Annalisa From helenaworthen@gmail.com Sat Mar 3 20:36:08 2018 From: helenaworthen@gmail.com (Helena Worthen) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2018 20:36:08 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Nakesha In-Reply-To: <6BD9F25E-E5A2-4FC5-86D9-DB166DFD6DDD@gmail.com> References: <1520096740199.29106@iped.uio.no> <6BD9F25E-E5A2-4FC5-86D9-DB166DFD6DDD@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello ? I read the whole NYTimes article posted by Annalisa about the woman who died on the streets in NY ? a young woman, 45, Black, mother of two children born while she was homeless. The story is upsetting for many reasons. One, because living in the Bay Area, I see whole homeless encampments ? tent villages, under the freeway overpasses, along the grassy medians of streets lined with nice restaurants, and beside bike paths. At night the door ways of downtown shops become occupied with bodies in sleeping bags. Reason number two is that the article focuses on the help that was offered to Nakesha and mostly refused. Not only old friends from college (she graduated from Williams), but also people who walked past her and talked with her and gave her things, and then city social service workers who reached out to her. One NYC worker recorded visiting her and speaking with her over 300 times. She was well enough known to be interviewed on TV about whether people on the street should be moved to shelters or not when the temperature dropped. Two men who ran food trucks fed her, sometimes for free. Psychiatrists talked with her. So the overall impact of the article to me seems to say, ?Here is a woman with talent and potential who refuses the help that would have allowed her to lead a more normal life: she is schizophrenic but won?t accept medication or shelters.? The article, it seems to me, puts all the blame on her. It also unfortunately notes that what ultimately kills her is a complication of obesity: she is only 5 feet tall but weighs over 250 pounds at the time of her death. I really don?t want to hear someone say, ?I read an article in the NYTimes about this homeless woman who refused help 300 times!? - and suggest that this is typical. So although this article tells a terribly sad story, it undercuts the brutal fact of homelessness in the US by seeming to say homelessness is a matter of individual choice (you can choose to accept medication for schizophrenia or not), not a social problem for all of us. Should I, based on this story, decide to think that the crowds living on the street are all there because they refuse social services, won?t go into a shelter, won?t take their medications? That?s what the story would lead me to think. The loss of good jobs in academia is part of the homelessness story; maybe I sit in a place in the discourse where stories of adjuncts losing their jobs, trying to live on one class per semester, losing their healthcare when their assignments drops below 50%, art teachers sleeping in their studios, others in their cars are heard more often than elsewhere, but I don?t think so. I?m sure people on this list are aware of the overall deterioration of academic labor, if not experiencing it themselves. But organizers would say, ?It?s not what they do to you; it?s what we do for ourselves.? Mike asked a while ago if xmca had a collective response to the challenge of being able to do academic work, given the changes in higher ed ? loss of funding, anti-intellectualism in our government, loss of tenure track lines, explosion of student debt, cost of tuition, grant-dependent research where the tail wags the dog, etc etc. I think xmcc is a collective response. Add in the journal, Mind Culture and Activity, and the ISCAR conferences, and the partcipants from all over the world, including some with historical memory!!! ? that?s a response. Not that it pays for groceries. Kind regards (I love the way Annalisa signs off?) Helena Helena Worthen helenaworthen@gmail.com Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 Blog US/ Viet Nam: helenaworthen.wordpress.com skype: helena.worthen1 > On Mar 3, 2018, at 9:25 AM, Jessica Kindred wrote: > > I also remember my shock at the homelessness in San Francisco. I think part of it, coming from New York, was that so much of it was actually on the street. In New York, it tends to be underground in the subway us or in shelters, and of course, sometimes on the actual street as well. I recently was in Denver Colorado, and was shocked at the number of people lining sidewalks and I asking for money at crosswalks. > That is to say, American homelessness is shocking even from an inside the US point of view. > Jessie K. > > On Mar 3, 2018, at 12:05 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > > Thanks for sharing, Annalisa. Really nice case story a la Oliver Sacks. I have yet to read the whole, but, 3900 unsheltered homeless people just in New York City??? > > I had never been in the US until I moved to live a couple of years in BC, Canada, and the first time I got the chance to visit the US was San Francisco, for a conference. I was there only the time strictly needed to go to bed, wake up, walk to the conference venue in SF downtown, and back to the hotel in the evening to leave early next morning. In my brief walk, I got to see more homeless people that I had never seen before, and I remember thinking that, if that scene I saw would suddenly occur in a city in Spain (where I am from) or Norway, there would be a social alarm and everyone would be talking about that all the time. Of course, I also thought that letting down the thousands of Syria refugees that the Spanish government had committed to host but never did would also cause a huge alarm and revolt... but nothing has happened. Yet, the issue in the US cities looks totally bizarre for an outsider's sight. > > Alfredo > ________________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Annalisa Aguilar > Sent: 03 March 2018 17:34 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Nakesha > > Hello fellow Xmcars, > > > I wish there were technology that didn't send us to the moon, but instead refused to let anyone be homeless while fervently advocating for anyone to contribute their best gifts and insights. > > > I noticed this today in the NYT and the sentence below stood out to me in particular. I thought it was a wonderful activity for children. Or maybe adults? > > > "Once, she said, Nakesha had each student invent a holiday and write about how it would be celebrated, the values it promoted and what artifacts would be involved." > > > https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/03/nyregion/nyc-homeless-nakesha-mental-illness.html > > > > kind regards, > > > Annalisa > From kplakits@gmail.com Sat Mar 3 23:39:05 2018 From: kplakits@gmail.com (Katerina Plakitsi) Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2018 07:39:05 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Nakesha In-Reply-To: References: <1520096740199.29106@iped.uio.no> <6BD9F25E-E5A2-4FC5-86D9-DB166DFD6DDD@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks Helena!!! ???? ???, 4 ??? 2018 ???? 06:39 ? ??????? Helena Worthen < helenaworthen@gmail.com> ??????: > Hello ? > I read the whole NYTimes article posted by Annalisa about the woman who > died on the streets in NY ? a young woman, 45, Black, mother of two > children born while she was homeless. The story is upsetting for many > reasons. > > One, because living in the Bay Area, I see whole homeless encampments ? > tent villages, under the freeway overpasses, along the grassy medians of > streets lined with nice restaurants, and beside bike paths. At night the > door ways of downtown shops become occupied with bodies in sleeping bags. > > Reason number two is that the article focuses on the help that was offered > to Nakesha and mostly refused. Not only old friends from college (she > graduated from Williams), but also people who walked past her and talked > with her and gave her things, and then city social service workers who > reached out to her. One NYC worker recorded visiting her and speaking with > her over 300 times. She was well enough known to be interviewed on TV about > whether people on the street should be moved to shelters or not when the > temperature dropped. Two men who ran food trucks fed her, sometimes for > free. Psychiatrists talked with her. > > So the overall impact of the article to me seems to say, ?Here is a woman > with talent and potential who refuses the help that would have allowed her > to lead a more normal life: she is schizophrenic but won?t accept > medication or shelters.? The article, it seems to me, puts all the blame on > her. It also unfortunately notes that what ultimately kills her is a > complication of obesity: she is only 5 feet tall but weighs over 250 pounds > at the time of her death. > > I really don?t want to hear someone say, ?I read an article in the NYTimes > about this homeless woman who refused help 300 times!? - and suggest that > this is typical. > > So although this article tells a terribly sad story, it undercuts the > brutal fact of homelessness in the US by seeming to say homelessness is a > matter of individual choice (you can choose to accept medication for > schizophrenia or not), not a social problem for all of us. > > Should I, based on this story, decide to think that the crowds living on > the street are all there because they refuse social services, won?t go into > a shelter, won?t take their medications? That?s what the story would lead > me to think. > > The loss of good jobs in academia is part of the homelessness story; maybe > I sit in a place in the discourse where stories of adjuncts losing their > jobs, trying to live on one class per semester, losing their healthcare > when their assignments drops below 50%, art teachers sleeping in their > studios, others in their cars are heard more often than elsewhere, but I > don?t think so. I?m sure people on this list are aware of the overall > deterioration of academic labor, if not experiencing it themselves. > > But organizers would say, ?It?s not what they do to you; it?s what we do > for ourselves.? > > Mike asked a while ago if xmca had a collective response to the challenge > of being able to do academic work, given the changes in higher ed ? loss > of funding, anti-intellectualism in our government, loss of tenure track > lines, explosion of student debt, cost of tuition, grant-dependent research > where the tail wags the dog, etc etc. I think xmcc is a collective > response. Add in the journal, Mind Culture and Activity, and the ISCAR > conferences, and the partcipants from all over the world, including some > with historical memory!!! ? that?s a response. Not that it pays for > groceries. > > Kind regards (I love the way Annalisa signs off?) > > Helena > > > > > Helena Worthen > helenaworthen@gmail.com > Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 > Blog US/ Viet Nam: > helenaworthen.wordpress.com > skype: helena.worthen1 > > > > > > > > > On Mar 3, 2018, at 9:25 AM, Jessica Kindred > wrote: > > > > I also remember my shock at the homelessness in San Francisco. I think > part of it, coming from New York, was that so much of it was actually on > the street. In New York, it tends to be underground in the subway us or in > shelters, and of course, sometimes on the actual street as well. I > recently was in Denver Colorado, and was shocked at the number of people > lining sidewalks and I asking for money at crosswalks. > > That is to say, American homelessness is shocking even from an inside > the US point of view. > > Jessie K. > > > > On Mar 3, 2018, at 12:05 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > wrote: > > > > Thanks for sharing, Annalisa. Really nice case story a la Oliver Sacks. > I have yet to read the whole, but, 3900 unsheltered homeless people just in > New York City??? > > > > I had never been in the US until I moved to live a couple of years in > BC, Canada, and the first time I got the chance to visit the US was San > Francisco, for a conference. I was there only the time strictly needed to > go to bed, wake up, walk to the conference venue in SF downtown, and back > to the hotel in the evening to leave early next morning. In my brief walk, > I got to see more homeless people that I had never seen before, and I > remember thinking that, if that scene I saw would suddenly occur in a city > in Spain (where I am from) or Norway, there would be a social alarm and > everyone would be talking about that all the time. Of course, I also > thought that letting down the thousands of Syria refugees that the Spanish > government had committed to host but never did would also cause a huge > alarm and revolt... but nothing has happened. Yet, the issue in the US > cities looks totally bizarre for an outsider's sight. > > > > Alfredo > > ________________________________________ > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Annalisa Aguilar > > Sent: 03 March 2018 17:34 > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Nakesha > > > > Hello fellow Xmcars, > > > > > > I wish there were technology that didn't send us to the moon, but > instead refused to let anyone be homeless while fervently advocating for > anyone to contribute their best gifts and insights. > > > > > > I noticed this today in the NYT and the sentence below stood out to me > in particular. I thought it was a wonderful activity for children. Or maybe > adults? > > > > > > "Once, she said, Nakesha had each student invent a holiday and write > about how it would be celebrated, the values it promoted and what artifacts > would be involved." > > > > > > > https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/03/nyregion/nyc-homeless-nakesha-mental-illness.html > > > > > > > > kind regards, > > > > > > Annalisa > > > > > -- ............................................................ Katerina Plakitsi *ISCAR President* *Professor of Science Education* *Head of the Dept. of E**arly Childhood Education* *School of Education * *University of Ioannina, Greece* *tel. +302651005771* *fax. +302651005842* *mobile.phone +306972898463* *Skype name: katerina.plakitsi3* https://www.iscar.org/ http://users.uoi.gr/kplakits www.epoque-project.eu http://bdfprojects.wixsite.com/mindset http://www.lib.uoi.gr/serp https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isZAbefnRmo&t=7s From kplakits@gmail.com Sat Mar 3 23:41:04 2018 From: kplakits@gmail.com (Katerina Plakitsi) Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2018 07:41:04 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Nakesha In-Reply-To: References: <1520096740199.29106@iped.uio.no> <6BD9F25E-E5A2-4FC5-86D9-DB166DFD6DDD@gmail.com> Message-ID: Inspiring points Annalisa! ???? ???, 4 ??? 2018 ???? 09:39 ? ??????? Katerina Plakitsi < kplakits@gmail.com> ??????: > Thanks Helena!!! > > ???? ???, 4 ??? 2018 ???? 06:39 ? ??????? Helena Worthen < > helenaworthen@gmail.com> ??????: > >> Hello ? >> I read the whole NYTimes article posted by Annalisa about the woman who >> died on the streets in NY ? a young woman, 45, Black, mother of two >> children born while she was homeless. The story is upsetting for many >> reasons. >> >> One, because living in the Bay Area, I see whole homeless encampments ? >> tent villages, under the freeway overpasses, along the grassy medians of >> streets lined with nice restaurants, and beside bike paths. At night the >> door ways of downtown shops become occupied with bodies in sleeping bags. >> >> Reason number two is that the article focuses on the help that was >> offered to Nakesha and mostly refused. Not only old friends from college >> (she graduated from Williams), but also people who walked past her and >> talked with her and gave her things, and then city social service workers >> who reached out to her. One NYC worker recorded visiting her and speaking >> with her over 300 times. She was well enough known to be interviewed on TV >> about whether people on the street should be moved to shelters or not when >> the temperature dropped. Two men who ran food trucks fed her, sometimes for >> free. Psychiatrists talked with her. >> >> So the overall impact of the article to me seems to say, ?Here is a woman >> with talent and potential who refuses the help that would have allowed her >> to lead a more normal life: she is schizophrenic but won?t accept >> medication or shelters.? The article, it seems to me, puts all the blame on >> her. It also unfortunately notes that what ultimately kills her is a >> complication of obesity: she is only 5 feet tall but weighs over 250 pounds >> at the time of her death. >> >> I really don?t want to hear someone say, ?I read an article in the >> NYTimes about this homeless woman who refused help 300 times!? - and >> suggest that this is typical. >> >> So although this article tells a terribly sad story, it undercuts the >> brutal fact of homelessness in the US by seeming to say homelessness is a >> matter of individual choice (you can choose to accept medication for >> schizophrenia or not), not a social problem for all of us. >> >> Should I, based on this story, decide to think that the crowds living on >> the street are all there because they refuse social services, won?t go into >> a shelter, won?t take their medications? That?s what the story would lead >> me to think. >> >> The loss of good jobs in academia is part of the homelessness story; >> maybe I sit in a place in the discourse where stories of adjuncts losing >> their jobs, trying to live on one class per semester, losing their >> healthcare when their assignments drops below 50%, art teachers sleeping in >> their studios, others in their cars are heard more often than elsewhere, >> but I don?t think so. I?m sure people on this list are aware of the overall >> deterioration of academic labor, if not experiencing it themselves. >> >> But organizers would say, ?It?s not what they do to you; it?s what we do >> for ourselves.? >> >> Mike asked a while ago if xmca had a collective response to the challenge >> of being able to do academic work, given the changes in higher ed ? loss >> of funding, anti-intellectualism in our government, loss of tenure track >> lines, explosion of student debt, cost of tuition, grant-dependent research >> where the tail wags the dog, etc etc. I think xmcc is a collective >> response. Add in the journal, Mind Culture and Activity, and the ISCAR >> conferences, and the partcipants from all over the world, including some >> with historical memory!!! ? that?s a response. Not that it pays for >> groceries. >> >> Kind regards (I love the way Annalisa signs off?) >> >> Helena >> >> >> >> >> Helena Worthen >> helenaworthen@gmail.com >> Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 >> Blog US/ Viet Nam: >> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >> skype: helena.worthen1 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > On Mar 3, 2018, at 9:25 AM, Jessica Kindred >> wrote: >> > >> > I also remember my shock at the homelessness in San Francisco. I think >> part of it, coming from New York, was that so much of it was actually on >> the street. In New York, it tends to be underground in the subway us or in >> shelters, and of course, sometimes on the actual street as well. I >> recently was in Denver Colorado, and was shocked at the number of people >> lining sidewalks and I asking for money at crosswalks. >> > That is to say, American homelessness is shocking even from an inside >> the US point of view. >> > Jessie K. >> > >> > On Mar 3, 2018, at 12:05 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil >> wrote: >> > >> > Thanks for sharing, Annalisa. Really nice case story a la Oliver Sacks. >> I have yet to read the whole, but, 3900 unsheltered homeless people just in >> New York City??? >> > >> > I had never been in the US until I moved to live a couple of years in >> BC, Canada, and the first time I got the chance to visit the US was San >> Francisco, for a conference. I was there only the time strictly needed to >> go to bed, wake up, walk to the conference venue in SF downtown, and back >> to the hotel in the evening to leave early next morning. In my brief walk, >> I got to see more homeless people that I had never seen before, and I >> remember thinking that, if that scene I saw would suddenly occur in a city >> in Spain (where I am from) or Norway, there would be a social alarm and >> everyone would be talking about that all the time. Of course, I also >> thought that letting down the thousands of Syria refugees that the Spanish >> government had committed to host but never did would also cause a huge >> alarm and revolt... but nothing has happened. Yet, the issue in the US >> cities looks totally bizarre for an outsider's sight. >> > >> > Alfredo >> > ________________________________________ >> > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> on behalf of Annalisa Aguilar >> > Sent: 03 March 2018 17:34 >> > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >> > Subject: [Xmca-l] Nakesha >> > >> > Hello fellow Xmcars, >> > >> > >> > I wish there were technology that didn't send us to the moon, but >> instead refused to let anyone be homeless while fervently advocating for >> anyone to contribute their best gifts and insights. >> > >> > >> > I noticed this today in the NYT and the sentence below stood out to me >> in particular. I thought it was a wonderful activity for children. Or maybe >> adults? >> > >> > >> > "Once, she said, Nakesha had each student invent a holiday and write >> about how it would be celebrated, the values it promoted and what artifacts >> would be involved." >> > >> > >> > >> https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/03/nyregion/nyc-homeless-nakesha-mental-illness.html >> > >> > >> > >> > kind regards, >> > >> > >> > Annalisa >> > >> >> >> -- > ............................................................ > Katerina Plakitsi > *ISCAR President* > *Professor of Science Education* > *Head of the Dept. of E**arly Childhood Education* > *School of Education * > *University of Ioannina, Greece* > *tel. +302651005771* > *fax. +302651005842* > *mobile.phone +306972898463* > *Skype name: katerina.plakitsi3* > > https://www.iscar.org/ > http://users.uoi.gr/kplakits > www.epoque-project.eu > http://bdfprojects.wixsite.com/mindset > http://www.lib.uoi.gr/serp > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isZAbefnRmo&t=7s > > > > > -- ............................................................ Katerina Plakitsi *ISCAR President* *Professor of Science Education* *Head of the Dept. of E**arly Childhood Education* *School of Education * *University of Ioannina, Greece* *tel. +302651005771* *fax. +302651005842* *mobile.phone +306972898463* *Skype name: katerina.plakitsi3* https://www.iscar.org/ http://users.uoi.gr/kplakits www.epoque-project.eu http://bdfprojects.wixsite.com/mindset http://www.lib.uoi.gr/serp https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isZAbefnRmo&t=7s From smago@uga.edu Sun Mar 4 08:43:15 2018 From: smago@uga.edu (Peter Smagorinsky) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2018 16:43:15 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] FW: Memorial for Veronka In-Reply-To: <1520181133562.26287@tcu.edu> References: <1090902276.9209915.1520113286675.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1090902276.9209915.1520113286675@mail.yahoo.com>, , <1520181133562.26287@tcu.edu> Message-ID: I assume that Veronka is Vera John-Steiner. From: John, Suki [mailto:s.john@tcu.edu] Dear Friends of Veronka We are writing to let you know about the memorial we are planning for our mother on March 15th, 6-8 Pm at CUNY Graduate Center, 365 5th Avenue (at 34th Street) in NYC, room 5409. Please RSVP to Suki at this address or at this Evite link: http://evite.me/RdxAryAyTW thank you Suki and S?ndor John From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Sun Mar 4 10:22:29 2018 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2018 18:22:29 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Memorial for Veronka In-Reply-To: References: <1090902276.9209915.1520113286675.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1090902276.9209915.1520113286675@mail.yahoo.com>, , <1520181133562.26287@tcu.edu>, Message-ID: <1520187749692.87565@iped.uio.no> Thanks sharing, Peter, Alfredo ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Peter Smagorinsky Sent: 04 March 2018 17:43 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] FW: Memorial for Veronka I assume that Veronka is Vera John-Steiner. From: John, Suki [mailto:s.john@tcu.edu] Dear Friends of Veronka We are writing to let you know about the memorial we are planning for our mother on March 15th, 6-8 Pm at CUNY Graduate Center, 365 5th Avenue (at 34th Street) in NYC, room 5409. Please RSVP to Suki at this address or at this Evite link: http://evite.me/RdxAryAyTW thank you Suki and S?ndor John From annalisa@unm.edu Sun Mar 4 10:38:06 2018 From: annalisa@unm.edu (Annalisa Aguilar) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2018 18:38:06 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Nakesha In-Reply-To: References: <1520096740199.29106@iped.uio.no> <6BD9F25E-E5A2-4FC5-86D9-DB166DFD6DDD@gmail.com> , Message-ID: Hello kind regardees (never mind to the unkind regardees), Helena is right about the narrative that the article makes, and I thought I would hold back commenting to allow others a way in, but yeah, that's absolutely correct. Speaking with the homeless, and people I know who work in the social services world everyday fighting the struggle to help these vulnerable folks, I conclude the problem doesn't just stem from lack of resources to provide safety to women (and also to men, but differently) who are vulnerable. It also has to do with our lack of sensibility for this problem. We are not perceiving it from the POV of the homeless AT ALL. Nakesha survived BECAUSE she was highly educated, and using that educated mind, she learned how to survive on the streets. It's a more than a little perverse. She was likely able to illustrate by speaking for herself that she was not threatening and meant no one harm. In the TV interview highlighted in the article, she says she did not go to shelters because it is not safe. I'm sure she says that for a reason. Imagine that rather than go to a shelter, instead to choose to sit on a grate in the middle of NYC in winter time and that being the better choice. That is a point I think the article doesn't make clearly. Would you want to be sequestered with unstable individuals, likely substance abusers, untreated mentally ill people suffering all levels of confusion, or a closed space in proximity to communicable diseases and unwashed distressed bodies? If you wouldn't do it as a housed person, would you do it as a homeless person, when you are distressed and pulled around by fate, because of so few viable choices? It's so offensive to say it was her choice to be homeless when the only choices are a dangerous shelter or a sidewalk, or even others "taking over" her agency and telling her how to respond to the rupture of homelessness. Additionally, not everyone who is homeless is a substance abuser and it seems that was true for Nakesha. But the programs that are offered to these hurting people offer a one-size-fits-all solution that will not work for every person. It's madness to think that that would be the case. This is where the Foucauldian notion of docile bodies fits so well. Who wants to be or have a docile body?? Perhaps she did not agree with a being forced into a pharmaceutical model for treating her illness. Which is her right. Maybe that is because her freedom had already been compromised in so many ways that the last thing she would want to do is also swallow a pill against her will to lose a grip on her own mind, even if a distressed on, is still all hers. Some of these social workers are very behaviorist (I say that in the worst way) treating these harmed people like they are animals to be trained and brought under control with tough love, as if they are criminals. (And actually I'm not sure it works on bona fide criminals, but OK). We don't really distinguish in this country between the homeless or even the poor, and criminals because we project the same sort of moral underpinnings to those individuals. What is beautiful about the story of Nakesha's life was it heralded a life of freedom and dignity in the diminishing space of her every day existence. Like valuing the library. She was living a life of the mind! It sounds preposterous, but I ask myself if after a time on the streets, the humiliation of being homeless wears off and one just does what needs doing, one day at a time, one hour at a time. The kindness shown to her from IMMIGRANTS are also very touching. Though, this stain of homelessness didn't wear off with the people she used to know, and it's likely difficult to accept help from those people as it becomes a lasting brand in the relationship ("I knew you when you were down and out"). People can be quite cruel about thinking they are helping, when it's more about keeping score for one's ego to be considered a charitable person, than actually providing meaningful help to someone in need. At some point, it's probably just too painful to see one's own life objectively, which perpetuates more mental illness, it's a downward spiral that constrains making good decisions. Nakesha was holding on to her freedom, and that shows how much freedom and dignity is an intrinsic trait of being human. There is nothing bourgeois in the homeless experience. One doesn't try to keep up with the Joneses, or look at the labels of clothing.There does seem to be an aesthetic to homelessness: I'll call it patchy-serendipitous-functionalism. What else can we glean from the article? Helena points out that at the time of death Nakesha weighed over 250 pounds! It was likely she could only eat what she could find, rather than what was nutritious to her. We also know that having a bad diet can cause mental illness, just try living a day on soda and candy for a day and see how you feel the next day! So, in my opinion, what is mandatory for helping the homeless is to ensure that they eat properly and are well nourished. That's first and foremost. Acupuncture is a fantastic alternative to SSRI's and other psychotropics. A lot could be healed in a body flayed by homelessness, just through diet and even homeopathic herbs, all natural, low-risk substances that human bodies have evolved upon for millions of years, with knowledge passed down from the ancients through experience and observation. Leave the pharmaceuticals for the very stubborn cases for the extremely vulnerable who cannot advocate at all for themselves, after these attempts prove ineffective. (And even then the most skilled practitioners should be the only people helping those folks). The human body is a tremendously marvelous system that heals itself, and this is what we should *let happen*. But we don't. Then we blame the homeless for not being sensible!! Who is it who is sensible? It takes an enormous amount of wit and vigilance to survive those circumstances. It's all about the senses. Additionally, one of the most important missing ingredients that the homeless require is LOVE. They are ignored and treated quite cruelly by our society. They want to be happy and enjoy kindness and the nourishment of friendship like anyone. Lastly, I know it as a little paltry of an effort, but I started this petition on Move-on.org. I basically set up a proposition very much influenced by my experience in cultural historical activity discourse. If you are in California, please consider signing my petition! https://petitions.moveon.org/sign/stronger-laws-to-arrest?source=c.em&r_by=653432 If you are in the US, feel free to take the language of my petition and create one for your state. Thanks for listening. Kind regards, Annalisa Please also see this tweet I found, for some inspiration too! These are real superheroes! https://twitter.com/iamhoneydill/status/969607836249481216/photo/1 From greg.a.thompson@gmail.com Sun Mar 4 11:31:42 2018 From: greg.a.thompson@gmail.com (Greg Thompson) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2018 12:31:42 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In-Reply-To: <2996E8BF-CB5B-4C69-99F6-B09F5C0B701B@gmail.com> References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> <1518914964416.39650@iped.uio.no> <2996E8BF-CB5B-4C69-99F6-B09F5C0B701B@gmail.com> Message-ID: With regard to Mike's question about (I'm paraphrasing) What is to be done?, I'll confess to being too caught up (i.e., "invested" (often literally) and thus "implicated) in things-as-they-currently are to be able to be properly critical. But I will say that even within the limited scope of action dictated by these implications, there may still be room for meaningful action. (or so I'd like to think). As one small example, I am rather fond of Martin Packer's book Science of Qualitative Research. In it, he sets out an agenda for qualitative research as "emancipatory." This isn't to say that all qualitative research IS this, but rather that this is what qualitative research CAN be. Below are some quotes that help to give some sense of the argument (these are taken from the introductory chapter to the book). Better to quote here than to paraphrase (quotes are below). I find this vision to be inspiring and challenging. Inspiring because of the possibilities that it promises. Challenging because, as Packer notes later in the book in the chapter on the crisis in ethnography, it forces me (qua researcher) to recognize how my interests can be at cross purposes with those of my informants simply because my life/work is situated differently from theirs. QUOTES FROM PACKER'S INTRO CHAPTER: "Attention to human forms of life, to the subtle details of people?s talk and actions, to human bodies in material surroundings, can open our eyes to unnoticed aspects of human life and learning, unexplored characteristics of the relationship between humans and the world we inhabit, and unsuspected ways in which we could improve our lives on this planet." (p. 3). Qualitative research is: "the basis for a radical reconceptualization of the social sciences as forms of inquiry in which we work to transform our forms of life." (p. 3). "qualitative research has the potential to change our attitude of domination because it is sensitive to human forms of life in a way that traditional research cannot be." (p. 4). And here is his description of what qualitative research could be: "?a historical ontology of ourselves? that, [Foucault] proposed, would involve ?a critique of what we are saying, thinking, and doing.? It would attend to the complex interrelations of knowledge, politics, and ethics. It would foster personal and political transformation without resorting to violence. It would be an investigation that could create new ways of being." and further, "it would include a historical dimension, attentive to genesis and transformation without reducing them to the linear unfolding of a unidimensional ?progress.? It would include an ethnographic dimension that would be sensitive to power and resistance. It would carefully examine practical activities ? ?discourse? ? to discover how we human beings are made and how we make ourselves. And it would foster social change not through violent revolt but by promoting ?a patient labor giving form to our impatience for liberty? (Foucault, 1975/ 1977, p. 319), working to change who we are." And: "The traditional social sciences have investigated how humans operate as information-processing organisms and have helped design better manipulation in the form of advertising and spin. We desperately need a program of inquiry that can ask questions whose answers would empower us to transform our forms of life, our moral paradigms, and our discursive practices for the better." (p. 7). And reading Martin's project within the limits that I have placed on myself, this orientation make me look for possible ways that I can involve/implicate this kind of project with other interests, both locally and globally, in order to get beyond thinking of what we are doing in academia as merely a matter of unthinking, hedonistic rational self-interest (e.g., helping people to "make money" so that they can maximize their personal utility). In this current context in which we live (esp. in the U.S), it isn't easy to find these sites of possibility where one might consider studying transformations of human possibility (individual and collective), but I think that there are some out there... -greg On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 10:09 AM, Helena Worthen wrote: > I?m late in adding to this discussion, but I don?t think anyone else has > responded to MIke?s question directly. What can the collective experience > of xmca come up with? Maybe it?s so obvious it doesn?t need saying. The > dscussion itself is collective, along with the ISCAR conferences, the MCA > journal, the openness of participants to share resources, review, comment > and criticize ? sending around whole books when possible. It?s an ongoing > colletive experience. An occasional reference to the academic labor market > is a healthy and welcome reality check but the discussion itself is the > collective resoruce. > > > Helena Worthen > helenaworthen@gmail.com > Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 > Blog US/ Viet Nam: > helenaworthen.wordpress.com > skype: helena.worthen1 > > > > > > > > > On Feb 17, 2018, at 5:07 PM, mike cole wrote: > > > > Yours is a quandary shared by your generation, Alfredo. > > Being allowed to teach and conduct research in a quality institution is a > > great privilege and an > > increasingly rarer possibility. > > > > There are several people on this list who have organized their lives to > be > > independent scholars > > while staying connected to the core institutions of disciplinary > training. > > It might be nice to hear > > the variety out there. > > > > It appears pretty certain that the situation is going to get worse > > before/if it gets better. > > > > What can the collective experience of xmca come up with that would be > > useful to the many > > of you caught in this meat grinder? > > > > mike > > > > > > > > On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > > > wrote: > > > >> Good luck then, Wagner! > >> A > >> ________________________________________ > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >> on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit > >> Sent: 18 February 2018 01:07 > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > >> > >> This just hit me in the spot... > >> > >> Wagner > >> > >> On Feb 17, 2018 9:48 PM, "Alfredo Jornet Gil" > wrote: > >> > >>> I have not been able to contribute to this list as much as I'd like to > >>> lately, among other things, because I need to find a job, and I need to > >>> make sure that I have checked all those boxes that selection committees > >>> will check (enough first-authored publications? in good enough > journals? > >>> enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? acquiring funds? > >> more > >>> than all others candidates? and more than favoured-for-whatever-other- > >> reasons > >>> candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these weeks to fill up a > >>> competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. > >>> > >>> > >>> And, although I did not think that it was particularly well written, it > >>> was both relieving and discouraging to read this article (see link > below, > >>> which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague who I think also > >>> subscribes this list). The article makes visible the pain scholars go > >>> through when, after so many years of digging and digging and digging a > >>> little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to leave it and find some > >> other > >>> thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer who was moving > through > >>> the world with his lovely family, short-term project after short-term > >>> project, getting better and better at what he worked on (apparently he > >> was > >>> among the few who had expertise in computer modeling simulating some > >>> astronomic events) , and finally having to step out academia last year > to > >>> find something else to do, for his family no longer could stand the > >>> constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be me soon. And that may > >> not > >>> be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the story seems to be > >> quite > >>> endemic to academia and may be interesting to some of you: > >>> > >>> > >>> https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Loses-When/242560 > >>> > >>> Alfredo > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > > > -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson From mcole@ucsd.edu Wed Mar 7 14:47:29 2018 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2018 22:47:29 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: [COGDEVSOC] Erikson Institute Faculty Position In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Preschool ed. ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Laura Zimmermann Date: Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 2:00 PM Subject: [COGDEVSOC] Erikson Institute Faculty Position To: Hi all, Attached is a job ad for a faculty position at the Erikson Institute. Warmly, Laura -- Laura Zimmermann IES Postdoctoral Researcher Child's Play, Learning, & Development Lab School of Education 221 Willard Hall University of Delaware Newark, DE 19716 (302) 837-4001 Twitter _______________________________________________ To post to the CDS listserv, send your message to: cogdevsoc@lists.cogdevsoc.org (If you belong to the listserv and have not included any large attachments, your message will be posted without moderation--so be careful!) To subscribe or unsubscribe from the listserv, visit: http://lists.cogdevsoc.org/listinfo.cgi/cogdevsoc-cogdevsoc.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Faculty Search_Math and Science.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 266996 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20180307/27a73244/attachment.pdf From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Wed Mar 7 14:50:42 2018 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2018 22:50:42 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fwd: [COGDEVSOC] Erikson Institute Faculty Position In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: <1520463042864.94263@iped.uio.no> Thanks for sharing, Mike and Laura, Alfredo ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of mike cole Sent: 07 March 2018 23:47 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: [COGDEVSOC] Erikson Institute Faculty Position Preschool ed. ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Laura Zimmermann Date: Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 2:00 PM Subject: [COGDEVSOC] Erikson Institute Faculty Position To: Hi all, Attached is a job ad for a faculty position at the Erikson Institute. Warmly, Laura -- Laura Zimmermann IES Postdoctoral Researcher Child's Play, Learning, & Development Lab School of Education 221 Willard Hall University of Delaware Newark, DE 19716 (302) 837-4001 Twitter _______________________________________________ To post to the CDS listserv, send your message to: cogdevsoc@lists.cogdevsoc.org (If you belong to the listserv and have not included any large attachments, your message will be posted without moderation--so be careful!) To subscribe or unsubscribe from the listserv, visit: http://lists.cogdevsoc.org/listinfo.cgi/cogdevsoc-cogdevsoc.org From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Sat Mar 10 14:30:34 2018 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2018 22:30:34 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools Message-ID: <1520721034406.59651@iped.uio.no> Dear xmca'ers, it is (bit over) due time for introducing the article for discussion from MCA's 2018 Issue 1, before Issue 2 comes upon us soon. The selected article, by Monica Ferreira Lemos and Fernando Rezende da Cunha J?nior, is about two topics that were thematised in the last ISCAR congress and that ought to be of much relevance to current and future CHAT-related research: Social media and social movements. In particular, the article examines how students use social media for the organization and development of 4 social movements in Brazil. The article is attached and is Free access during the discussion period. It can be accessed free in the following link: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2017.1379823 The authors have kindly agreed to participate in the discussion and they will be introducing themselves soon. I hope you will find the article interesting and please don't be shy to share anything you might have learned reading it, anything you might wonder about it or that you would like see discussed. Having authors engage in dialogue is a great opportunity that this community offers and that makes sense the most when many of you participate. Good reading! ? Alfredo Jornet New article in *Design Studies* "Imagning Design: Transitive and intransitive dimensions" Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Facebook in Brazilian Schools Mobilizing to Fight Back.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 1679217 bytes Desc: Facebook in Brazilian Schools Mobilizing to Fight Back.pdf Url : http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20180310/cdcb6108/attachment-0001.pdf From dkellogg60@gmail.com Sun Mar 11 15:02:55 2018 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2018 07:02:55 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools In-Reply-To: <1520721034406.59651@iped.uio.no> References: <1520721034406.59651@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: So in the fifteenth century, Gutenberg exapted extant technology already widely available in China and published a single text using moveable type which started a profound intellectual, cultural, and social revolution whose effects we still feel today: the rise of Protestantism, the Counter-Reformation in, among other places, Brazil, the Wars of Religion in France, the vicissitudes of a multii-confessional (political) State and ultimately those of a multi-confessional (psychological) state, In the twentieth century, Ford similarly exapted extant technology, this time nearly two millenia later than China, and mass-produced automobiles using Taylorism, forcing everybody to buy an identical product with interchangeable parts made by factories with interchangeable workers. The automobile "revolution" did not even give us new roads, and in Seoul today traffic moves notably slower than it would on horseback. Clearly, there are some forms of technology that are actually semiogenic--and others which merely circulate capital at a faster rate and actually slow the movement of people and new ideas. So my question is very simple. How do we know that "Facebook" (which as the name implies was originally designed to help Harvard freshmen decide which classmates were sufficiently hot to "like") is really one of the former technologies?.There are very clear signs , beyond the obvious ones surrounding the American origins, that it belongs to the latter category, and not a few of them appear in this very article. First of all, the authors are honest enough to associate Facebook with reactionary, xenophobic, populist movements like the clowns who run the "Five Stars" movement in Italy. Second, on the very first page, the authors try but do not really seem to be able to distinguish between the "post first and organize later" technologies of Occupy Wall Street and the use of social media by the four movements in the article (including one actually called "Occupy Everything"). And thirdly, it is very hard for me to pinpoint any actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made possible by Facebook. If anything, Facebook seems to narrow semiogenic power to a single consumer/computer menu. Ford said, you can get a Model A in any color you like so long as it's black. Facebook tells us the same thing, but makes the verb "like" intransitive. David Kellogg Sangmyung University Recent Article in *Early Years* The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and the child?s first interrogatives Free e-print available at: https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 7:30 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > Dear xmca'ers, > > > it is (bit over) due time for introducing the article for discussion from > MCA's 2018 Issue 1, before Issue 2 comes upon us soon. > > > The selected article, by Monica Ferreira Lemos and Fernando Rezende da > Cunha J?nior, is about two topics that were thematised in the last ISCAR > congress and that ought to be of much relevance to current and future > CHAT-related research: Social media and social movements. In particular, > the article examines how students use social media for the organization and > development of 4 social movements in Brazil. > > > The article is attached and is Free access during the discussion period. > It can be accessed free in the following link: > > https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2017.1379823 > > > The authors have kindly agreed to participate in the discussion and they > will be introducing themselves soon. I hope you will find the article > interesting and please don't be shy to share anything you might have > learned reading it, anything you might wonder about it or that you would > like see discussed. Having authors engage in dialogue is a great > opportunity that this community offers and that makes sense the most when > many of you participate. Good reading! > > ? > > Alfredo Jornet > > New article in *Design Studies* "Imagning Design: Transitive and > intransitive dimensions" > Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > From glassman.13@osu.edu Sun Mar 11 20:25:52 2018 From: glassman.13@osu.edu (Glassman, Michael) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2018 03:25:52 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools In-Reply-To: References: <1520721034406.59651@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF245E@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> Hi David, I'm sure those meddling kids won't come back on your lawn any time soon. But really, the article did not say Facebook is a new type of technology. I believe they said that it's a form of human-technology interaction and suggested perhaps social media was a new type of human-technology interaction. I don't agree with this phrasing. I tend to think of Facebook more as an application of Internet technology - but either way Facebook is just a form or an application. Is the internetworking of computer, radio and satellite communication an enormous step forward in how humans communicate. I think so - it's really extraordinary on a number of levels but that's really not the conversation for this article. I do think the authors have done an analysis that is interesting and possibly important, especially when one considers what is currently going on down in Parkland (some might be happy to know that, at least from what I have read, Facebook isn't dominant or even that important for these students. Adults have been using it more for larger organizational events like the March 14 walkout and the March 24 march). I have read some articles on organizing on online forums (and actually wrote a not very good one a few years back). Most of them are communications based an don't have strong theoretical underpinning which is why I think this article might be an important step forward. I think the idea of using third generation activity theory might be a good idea for this type of analysis. I myself have seen ties between the trialogical approach being developed by Hakkareinan and Paavola and what is going on down in Parkland. The students are creating their own projects and then getting the larger community to buy in to and support what they are doing which is in turn changing the quality of their activities. I have my own ideas on why this is suddenly happening and direct communication technologies like Twitter and texting (which seem primary vehicles) are only part of it. Anyway, this particular article I think is really timely and should give us a lot to think about. Michael -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2018 6:03 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools So in the fifteenth century, Gutenberg exapted extant technology already widely available in China and published a single text using moveable type which started a profound intellectual, cultural, and social revolution whose effects we still feel today: the rise of Protestantism, the Counter-Reformation in, among other places, Brazil, the Wars of Religion in France, the vicissitudes of a multii-confessional (political) State and ultimately those of a multi-confessional (psychological) state, In the twentieth century, Ford similarly exapted extant technology, this time nearly two millenia later than China, and mass-produced automobiles using Taylorism, forcing everybody to buy an identical product with interchangeable parts made by factories with interchangeable workers. The automobile "revolution" did not even give us new roads, and in Seoul today traffic moves notably slower than it would on horseback. Clearly, there are some forms of technology that are actually semiogenic--and others which merely circulate capital at a faster rate and actually slow the movement of people and new ideas. So my question is very simple. How do we know that "Facebook" (which as the name implies was originally designed to help Harvard freshmen decide which classmates were sufficiently hot to "like") is really one of the former technologies?.There are very clear signs , beyond the obvious ones surrounding the American origins, that it belongs to the latter category, and not a few of them appear in this very article. First of all, the authors are honest enough to associate Facebook with reactionary, xenophobic, populist movements like the clowns who run the "Five Stars" movement in Italy. Second, on the very first page, the authors try but do not really seem to be able to distinguish between the "post first and organize later" technologies of Occupy Wall Street and the use of social media by the four movements in the article (including one actually called "Occupy Everything"). And thirdly, it is very hard for me to pinpoint any actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made possible by Facebook. If anything, Facebook seems to narrow semiogenic power to a single consumer/computer menu. Ford said, you can get a Model A in any color you like so long as it's black. Facebook tells us the same thing, but makes the verb "like" intransitive. David Kellogg Sangmyung University Recent Article in *Early Years* The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and the child?s first interrogatives Free e-print available at: https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 7:30 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > Dear xmca'ers, > > > it is (bit over) due time for introducing the article for discussion > from MCA's 2018 Issue 1, before Issue 2 comes upon us soon. > > > The selected article, by Monica Ferreira Lemos and Fernando Rezende da > Cunha J?nior, is about two topics that were thematised in the last > ISCAR congress and that ought to be of much relevance to current and > future CHAT-related research: Social media and social movements. In > particular, the article examines how students use social media for the > organization and development of 4 social movements in Brazil. > > > The article is attached and is Free access during the discussion period. > It can be accessed free in the following link: > > https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2017.1379823 > > > The authors have kindly agreed to participate in the discussion and > they will be introducing themselves soon. I hope you will find the > article interesting and please don't be shy to share anything you > might have learned reading it, anything you might wonder about it or > that you would like see discussed. Having authors engage in dialogue > is a great opportunity that this community offers and that makes sense > the most when many of you participate. Good reading! > > ? > > Alfredo Jornet > > New article in *Design Studies* "Imagning Design: Transitive and > intransitive dimensions" > Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > From hhdave15@gmail.com Sun Mar 11 20:58:47 2018 From: hhdave15@gmail.com (Harshad Dave) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2018 03:58:47 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools In-Reply-To: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF245E@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> References: <1520721034406.59651@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF245E@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> Message-ID: Dear all, Exploration of science and developement of technology have, of course, advantages but we should not over look the social issues that we face today. It is equally vital to work out a good philosophy or stratagy of usage of all those achievements based on science and technologies for protecting natural wealth as well as other creatures. Otherwise, man will be more and more selfish to use technologies just for the benifit of mankind only. If we are really civilised then we should prove our qualification by our "deeds" .... not in "talks" only. "Earth is not the asset reserved for men only". Harshad Dave. hhdave15@gmail.com On 12 Mar 2018 08:59, "Glassman, Michael" wrote: Hi David, I'm sure those meddling kids won't come back on your lawn any time soon. But really, the article did not say Facebook is a new type of technology. I believe they said that it's a form of human-technology interaction and suggested perhaps social media was a new type of human-technology interaction. I don't agree with this phrasing. I tend to think of Facebook more as an application of Internet technology - but either way Facebook is just a form or an application. Is the internetworking of computer, radio and satellite communication an enormous step forward in how humans communicate. I think so - it's really extraordinary on a number of levels but that's really not the conversation for this article. I do think the authors have done an analysis that is interesting and possibly important, especially when one considers what is currently going on down in Parkland (some might be happy to know that, at least from what I have read, Facebook isn't dominant or even that important for these students. Adults have been using it more for larger organizational events like the March 14 walkout and the March 24 march). I have read some articles on organizing on online forums (and actually wrote a not very good one a few years back). Most of them are communications based an don't have strong theoretical underpinning which is why I think this article might be an important step forward. I think the idea of using third generation activity theory might be a good idea for this type of analysis. I myself have seen ties between the trialogical approach being developed by Hakkareinan and Paavola and what is going on down in Parkland. The students are creating their own projects and then getting the larger community to buy in to and support what they are doing which is in turn changing the quality of their activities. I have my own ideas on why this is suddenly happening and direct communication technologies like Twitter and texting (which seem primary vehicles) are only part of it. Anyway, this particular article I think is really timely and should give us a lot to think about. Michael -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2018 6:03 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools So in the fifteenth century, Gutenberg exapted extant technology already widely available in China and published a single text using moveable type which started a profound intellectual, cultural, and social revolution whose effects we still feel today: the rise of Protestantism, the Counter-Reformation in, among other places, Brazil, the Wars of Religion in France, the vicissitudes of a multii-confessional (political) State and ultimately those of a multi-confessional (psychological) state, In the twentieth century, Ford similarly exapted extant technology, this time nearly two millenia later than China, and mass-produced automobiles using Taylorism, forcing everybody to buy an identical product with interchangeable parts made by factories with interchangeable workers. The automobile "revolution" did not even give us new roads, and in Seoul today traffic moves notably slower than it would on horseback. Clearly, there are some forms of technology that are actually semiogenic--and others which merely circulate capital at a faster rate and actually slow the movement of people and new ideas. So my question is very simple. How do we know that "Facebook" (which as the name implies was originally designed to help Harvard freshmen decide which classmates were sufficiently hot to "like") is really one of the former technologies?.There are very clear signs , beyond the obvious ones surrounding the American origins, that it belongs to the latter category, and not a few of them appear in this very article. First of all, the authors are honest enough to associate Facebook with reactionary, xenophobic, populist movements like the clowns who run the "Five Stars" movement in Italy. Second, on the very first page, the authors try but do not really seem to be able to distinguish between the "post first and organize later" technologies of Occupy Wall Street and the use of social media by the four movements in the article (including one actually called "Occupy Everything"). And thirdly, it is very hard for me to pinpoint any actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made possible by Facebook. If anything, Facebook seems to narrow semiogenic power to a single consumer/computer menu. Ford said, you can get a Model A in any color you like so long as it's black. Facebook tells us the same thing, but makes the verb "like" intransitive. David Kellogg Sangmyung University Recent Article in *Early Years* The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and the child?s first interrogatives < https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09575146.2018.1431874> Free e-print available at: https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 7:30 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > Dear xmca'ers, > > > it is (bit over) due time for introducing the article for discussion > from MCA's 2018 Issue 1, before Issue 2 comes upon us soon. > > > The selected article, by Monica Ferreira Lemos and Fernando Rezende da > Cunha J?nior, is about two topics that were thematised in the last > ISCAR congress and that ought to be of much relevance to current and > future CHAT-related research: Social media and social movements. In > particular, the article examines how students use social media for the > organization and development of 4 social movements in Brazil. > > > The article is attached and is Free access during the discussion period. > It can be accessed free in the following link: > > https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2017.1379823 > > > The authors have kindly agreed to participate in the discussion and > they will be introducing themselves soon. I hope you will find the > article interesting and please don't be shy to share anything you > might have learned reading it, anything you might wonder about it or > that you would like see discussed. Having authors engage in dialogue > is a great opportunity that this community offers and that makes sense > the most when many of you participate. Good reading! > > ? > > Alfredo Jornet > > New article in *Design Studies* "Imagning Design: Transitive and > intransitive dimensions" > Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > From mcole@ucsd.edu Sun Mar 11 22:02:34 2018 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2018 22:02:34 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools In-Reply-To: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF245E@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> References: <1520721034406.59651@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF245E@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> Message-ID: Michael - I have been trying to find a digital copy of a story in today's NY Times titled "the social media warriors of parkland." For some reason it is not visible on the digital version.... yet. Maybe someone out there in xmca-land can find it for us? I will check again in the morning to see if it appears. It seems especially relevant to Monica and Fernando's article, and to David's comment that " it is very hard for me to pinpoint any actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made possible by Facebook." The voices and forms of speaking used by the students was not, so far as I could tell, the source of data. There are no quotations of any students speaking differently. I assumed that this article was about collective action. Monica and Fernando - I confess I had difficulty following parts of the article, perhaps because I am a very seldom user of Facebook. In particular, I had difficulty understanding Figure 3. Were the people who started M1 also those who started M2-M3? ( " Once students achieved the object of the activity?in the first case, to avoid the closure of the schools?they focused the protests on another object"). Did the M4 people get the idea from M1 through a FB connection form M1? Did you get any sense of what distinguished pages that got a few hundred versus 10,000 reactions? Harshad - Did you think the article failed to consider social issues? There is no information about you on the xmca membership page, so it is difficult to know from what part of the world you are writing. Unless I miss my guess, some people will wonder at your use of the word "man" where the local practice might put "humankind" or some other gender inclusive term. David - Daylight saving time tonight so I find myself "working late." It got me to wondering how many people live in Seoul. A lot, it turns out. About 9-10 million. That got me to wondering about how much faster all those people would be getting around on horses with all the horse plops to clamber over. And all that hay to haul into town for the morning rush hour. :-) mike On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Glassman, Michael wrote: > Hi David, > > I'm sure those meddling kids won't come back on your lawn any time soon. > > But really, the article did not say Facebook is a new type of technology. > I believe they said that it's a form of human-technology interaction and > suggested perhaps social media was a new type of human-technology > interaction. I don't agree with this phrasing. I tend to think of Facebook > more as an application of Internet technology - but either way Facebook is > just a form or an application. Is the internetworking of computer, radio > and satellite communication an enormous step forward in how humans > communicate. I think so - it's really extraordinary on a number of levels > but that's really not the conversation for this article. > > I do think the authors have done an analysis that is interesting and > possibly important, especially when one considers what is currently going > on down in Parkland (some might be happy to know that, at least from what I > have read, Facebook isn't dominant or even that important for these > students. Adults have been using it more for larger organizational events > like the March 14 walkout and the March 24 march). I have read some > articles on organizing on online forums (and actually wrote a not very good > one a few years back). Most of them are communications based an don't have > strong theoretical underpinning which is why I think this article might be > an important step forward. > > I think the idea of using third generation activity theory might be a good > idea for this type of analysis. I myself have seen ties between the > trialogical approach being developed by Hakkareinan and Paavola and what is > going on down in Parkland. The students are creating their own projects and > then getting the larger community to buy in to and support what they are > doing which is in turn changing the quality of their activities. I have my > own ideas on why this is suddenly happening and direct communication > technologies like Twitter and texting (which seem primary vehicles) are > only part of it. > > Anyway, this particular article I think is really timely and should give > us a lot to think about. > > Michael > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg > Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2018 6:03 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools > > So in the fifteenth century, Gutenberg exapted extant technology already > widely available in China and published a single text using moveable type > which started a profound intellectual, cultural, and social revolution > whose effects we still feel today: the rise of Protestantism, the > Counter-Reformation in, among other places, Brazil, the Wars of Religion in > France, the vicissitudes of a multii-confessional (political) State and > ultimately those of a multi-confessional (psychological) state, In the > twentieth century, Ford similarly exapted extant technology, this time > nearly two millenia later than China, and mass-produced automobiles using > Taylorism, forcing everybody to buy an identical product with > interchangeable parts made by factories with interchangeable workers. > The automobile "revolution" did not even give us new roads, and in Seoul > today traffic moves notably slower than it would on horseback. Clearly, > there are some forms of technology that are actually semiogenic--and others > which merely circulate capital at a faster rate and actually slow the > movement of people and new ideas. > > So my question is very simple. How do we know that "Facebook" (which as > the name implies was originally designed to help Harvard freshmen decide > which classmates were sufficiently hot to "like") is really one of the > former technologies?.There are very clear signs , beyond the obvious ones > surrounding the American origins, that it belongs to the latter category, > and not a few of them appear in this very article. First of all, the > authors are honest enough to associate Facebook with reactionary, > xenophobic, populist movements like the clowns who run the "Five Stars" > movement in Italy. Second, on the very first page, the authors try but do > not really seem to be able to distinguish between the "post first and > organize later" technologies of Occupy Wall Street and the use of social > media by the four movements in the article (including one actually called > "Occupy Everything"). And thirdly, it is very hard for me to pinpoint any > actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made possible > by Facebook. If anything, Facebook seems to narrow semiogenic power to a > single consumer/computer menu. Ford said, you can get a Model A in any > color you like so long as it's black. Facebook tells us the same thing, but > makes the verb "like" intransitive. > > David Kellogg > Sangmyung University > > Recent Article in *Early Years* > > The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and the > child?s first interrogatives doi/full/10.1080/09575146.2018.1431874> > > Free e-print available at: > https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full > > > On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 7:30 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > wrote: > > > Dear xmca'ers, > > > > > > it is (bit over) due time for introducing the article for discussion > > from MCA's 2018 Issue 1, before Issue 2 comes upon us soon. > > > > > > The selected article, by Monica Ferreira Lemos and Fernando Rezende da > > Cunha J?nior, is about two topics that were thematised in the last > > ISCAR congress and that ought to be of much relevance to current and > > future CHAT-related research: Social media and social movements. In > > particular, the article examines how students use social media for the > > organization and development of 4 social movements in Brazil. > > > > > > The article is attached and is Free access during the discussion period. > > It can be accessed free in the following link: > > > > https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2017.1379823 > > > > > > The authors have kindly agreed to participate in the discussion and > > they will be introducing themselves soon. I hope you will find the > > article interesting and please don't be shy to share anything you > > might have learned reading it, anything you might wonder about it or > > that you would like see discussed. Having authors engage in dialogue > > is a great opportunity that this community offers and that makes sense > > the most when many of you participate. Good reading! > > > > ? > > > > Alfredo Jornet > > > > New article in *Design Studies* "Imagning Design: Transitive and > > intransitive dimensions" > > Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > > > > From andyb@marxists.org Sun Mar 11 22:39:41 2018 From: andyb@marxists.org (Andy Blunden) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2018 16:39:41 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools In-Reply-To: References: <1520721034406.59651@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF245E@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> Message-ID: <0bdd10ce-7411-8083-533f-44fcfb50e928@marxists.org> That headline does not exist, but is it this: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/07/us/parkland-students-social-media.html Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm On 12/03/2018 4:02 PM, mike cole wrote: > Michael - I have been trying to find a digital copy of a story in today's > NY Times titled "the social media warriors of parkland." For some reason it > is not visible on the digital version.... yet. Maybe someone out there in > xmca-land can find it for us? I will check again > in the morning to see if it appears. > It seems especially relevant to Monica and Fernando's article, and to > David's comment that " it is very hard for me to pinpoint any > actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made possible by > Facebook." The voices and forms of speaking used by the students was not, > so far as I could tell, the source of data. There are no quotations of any > students speaking differently. I assumed that this article was about > collective action. > Monica and Fernando - I confess I had difficulty following parts of the > article, perhaps because I am a very seldom user of Facebook. In > particular, I had difficulty understanding Figure 3. Were the people who > started M1 also those who started M2-M3? ( " Once students achieved the > object of the activity?in the first case, to avoid the closure of the > schools?they focused the protests on another object"). > > Did the M4 people get the idea from M1 through a FB connection form M1? Did > you get any sense of what distinguished pages that got a few hundred versus > 10,000 reactions? > > Harshad - Did you think the article failed to consider social issues? There > is no information about you on the xmca membership > page, so it is difficult to know from what part of the world you are > writing. Unless I miss my guess, some people will wonder at your > use of the word "man" where the local practice might put "humankind" or > some other gender inclusive term. > > David - Daylight saving time tonight so I find myself "working late." It > got me to wondering how many people live in Seoul. A lot, it turns out. > About 9-10 million. That got me to wondering about how much faster all > those people would be getting around on horses with all the horse plops to > clamber over. And all that hay to haul into town for the morning rush > hour. :-) > > mike > > On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Glassman, Michael > wrote: > >> Hi David, >> >> I'm sure those meddling kids won't come back on your lawn any time soon. >> >> But really, the article did not say Facebook is a new type of technology. >> I believe they said that it's a form of human-technology interaction and >> suggested perhaps social media was a new type of human-technology >> interaction. I don't agree with this phrasing. I tend to think of Facebook >> more as an application of Internet technology - but either way Facebook is >> just a form or an application. Is the internetworking of computer, radio >> and satellite communication an enormous step forward in how humans >> communicate. I think so - it's really extraordinary on a number of levels >> but that's really not the conversation for this article. >> >> I do think the authors have done an analysis that is interesting and >> possibly important, especially when one considers what is currently going >> on down in Parkland (some might be happy to know that, at least from what I >> have read, Facebook isn't dominant or even that important for these >> students. Adults have been using it more for larger organizational events >> like the March 14 walkout and the March 24 march). I have read some >> articles on organizing on online forums (and actually wrote a not very good >> one a few years back). Most of them are communications based an don't have >> strong theoretical underpinning which is why I think this article might be >> an important step forward. >> >> I think the idea of using third generation activity theory might be a good >> idea for this type of analysis. I myself have seen ties between the >> trialogical approach being developed by Hakkareinan and Paavola and what is >> going on down in Parkland. The students are creating their own projects and >> then getting the larger community to buy in to and support what they are >> doing which is in turn changing the quality of their activities. I have my >> own ideas on why this is suddenly happening and direct communication >> technologies like Twitter and texting (which seem primary vehicles) are >> only part of it. >> >> Anyway, this particular article I think is really timely and should give >> us a lot to think about. >> >> Michael >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg >> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2018 6:03 PM >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools >> >> So in the fifteenth century, Gutenberg exapted extant technology already >> widely available in China and published a single text using moveable type >> which started a profound intellectual, cultural, and social revolution >> whose effects we still feel today: the rise of Protestantism, the >> Counter-Reformation in, among other places, Brazil, the Wars of Religion in >> France, the vicissitudes of a multii-confessional (political) State and >> ultimately those of a multi-confessional (psychological) state, In the >> twentieth century, Ford similarly exapted extant technology, this time >> nearly two millenia later than China, and mass-produced automobiles using >> Taylorism, forcing everybody to buy an identical product with >> interchangeable parts made by factories with interchangeable workers. >> The automobile "revolution" did not even give us new roads, and in Seoul >> today traffic moves notably slower than it would on horseback. Clearly, >> there are some forms of technology that are actually semiogenic--and others >> which merely circulate capital at a faster rate and actually slow the >> movement of people and new ideas. >> >> So my question is very simple. How do we know that "Facebook" (which as >> the name implies was originally designed to help Harvard freshmen decide >> which classmates were sufficiently hot to "like") is really one of the >> former technologies?.There are very clear signs , beyond the obvious ones >> surrounding the American origins, that it belongs to the latter category, >> and not a few of them appear in this very article. First of all, the >> authors are honest enough to associate Facebook with reactionary, >> xenophobic, populist movements like the clowns who run the "Five Stars" >> movement in Italy. Second, on the very first page, the authors try but do >> not really seem to be able to distinguish between the "post first and >> organize later" technologies of Occupy Wall Street and the use of social >> media by the four movements in the article (including one actually called >> "Occupy Everything"). And thirdly, it is very hard for me to pinpoint any >> actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made possible >> by Facebook. If anything, Facebook seems to narrow semiogenic power to a >> single consumer/computer menu. Ford said, you can get a Model A in any >> color you like so long as it's black. Facebook tells us the same thing, but >> makes the verb "like" intransitive. >> >> David Kellogg >> Sangmyung University >> >> Recent Article in *Early Years* >> >> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and the >> child?s first interrogatives > doi/full/10.1080/09575146.2018.1431874> >> >> Free e-print available at: >> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full >> >> >> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 7:30 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil >> wrote: >> >>> Dear xmca'ers, >>> >>> >>> it is (bit over) due time for introducing the article for discussion >>> from MCA's 2018 Issue 1, before Issue 2 comes upon us soon. >>> >>> >>> The selected article, by Monica Ferreira Lemos and Fernando Rezende da >>> Cunha J?nior, is about two topics that were thematised in the last >>> ISCAR congress and that ought to be of much relevance to current and >>> future CHAT-related research: Social media and social movements. In >>> particular, the article examines how students use social media for the >>> organization and development of 4 social movements in Brazil. >>> >>> >>> The article is attached and is Free access during the discussion period. >>> It can be accessed free in the following link: >>> >>> https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2017.1379823 >>> >>> >>> The authors have kindly agreed to participate in the discussion and >>> they will be introducing themselves soon. I hope you will find the >>> article interesting and please don't be shy to share anything you >>> might have learned reading it, anything you might wonder about it or >>> that you would like see discussed. Having authors engage in dialogue >>> is a great opportunity that this community offers and that makes sense >>> the most when many of you participate. Good reading! >>> >>> ? >>> >>> Alfredo Jornet >>> >>> New article in *Design Studies* "Imagning Design: Transitive and >>> intransitive dimensions" >>> Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr >>> >> From glassman.13@osu.edu Mon Mar 12 05:27:19 2018 From: glassman.13@osu.edu (Glassman, Michael) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2018 12:27:19 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools In-Reply-To: References: <1520721034406.59651@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF245E@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> Message-ID: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF24C7@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> Mika and others, Thanks for the link Andy. I remember reading that article last week and thinking that they just weren't getting it (maybe I'm not getting it though). This idea of these students and others who have grown up over the last quarter century being Zen social media gurus is simplistic and kind of ridiculous, especially in the light of the article that the students hadn't used Twitter very much before. And yet, you can't help thinking that something else is going on, that the students are able to use new mediating forces for what the authors call collaborative agency, although I am more comfortable with collective efficacy. The question is why and why now. The outcomes are different. What is causing this combination of autonomy, relationships and competence. Certainly not any change we have made in schools. If anything concentration on STEM takes it the other direction. What is causing this change. The students in the article used Facebook but why are they using this medium in this way. I don't believe it is the particular platforms. It's biggest attribute is free and easy access, but really they aren't any different than the online bulletin boards in many ways that started all this thirty years ago. I have been talking with my students a lot about this lately (not because of Parkland, but that really brings it to the forefront). We have the beginnings of some ideas but I'm not ready to talk about them even half-baked yet. Michael -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole Sent: Monday, March 12, 2018 1:03 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools Michael - I have been trying to find a digital copy of a story in today's NY Times titled "the social media warriors of parkland." For some reason it is not visible on the digital version.... yet. Maybe someone out there in xmca-land can find it for us? I will check again in the morning to see if it appears. It seems especially relevant to Monica and Fernando's article, and to David's comment that " it is very hard for me to pinpoint any actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made possible by Facebook." The voices and forms of speaking used by the students was not, so far as I could tell, the source of data. There are no quotations of any students speaking differently. I assumed that this article was about collective action. Monica and Fernando - I confess I had difficulty following parts of the article, perhaps because I am a very seldom user of Facebook. In particular, I had difficulty understanding Figure 3. Were the people who started M1 also those who started M2-M3? ( " Once students achieved the object of the activity?in the first case, to avoid the closure of the schools?they focused the protests on another object"). Did the M4 people get the idea from M1 through a FB connection form M1? Did you get any sense of what distinguished pages that got a few hundred versus 10,000 reactions? Harshad - Did you think the article failed to consider social issues? There is no information about you on the xmca membership page, so it is difficult to know from what part of the world you are writing. Unless I miss my guess, some people will wonder at your use of the word "man" where the local practice might put "humankind" or some other gender inclusive term. David - Daylight saving time tonight so I find myself "working late." It got me to wondering how many people live in Seoul. A lot, it turns out. About 9-10 million. That got me to wondering about how much faster all those people would be getting around on horses with all the horse plops to clamber over. And all that hay to haul into town for the morning rush hour. :-) mike On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Glassman, Michael wrote: > Hi David, > > I'm sure those meddling kids won't come back on your lawn any time soon. > > But really, the article did not say Facebook is a new type of technology. > I believe they said that it's a form of human-technology interaction > and suggested perhaps social media was a new type of human-technology > interaction. I don't agree with this phrasing. I tend to think of > Facebook more as an application of Internet technology - but either > way Facebook is just a form or an application. Is the internetworking > of computer, radio and satellite communication an enormous step > forward in how humans communicate. I think so - it's really > extraordinary on a number of levels but that's really not the conversation for this article. > > I do think the authors have done an analysis that is interesting and > possibly important, especially when one considers what is currently > going on down in Parkland (some might be happy to know that, at least > from what I have read, Facebook isn't dominant or even that important > for these students. Adults have been using it more for larger > organizational events like the March 14 walkout and the March 24 > march). I have read some articles on organizing on online forums (and > actually wrote a not very good one a few years back). Most of them are > communications based an don't have strong theoretical underpinning > which is why I think this article might be an important step forward. > > I think the idea of using third generation activity theory might be a > good idea for this type of analysis. I myself have seen ties between > the trialogical approach being developed by Hakkareinan and Paavola > and what is going on down in Parkland. The students are creating their > own projects and then getting the larger community to buy in to and > support what they are doing which is in turn changing the quality of > their activities. I have my own ideas on why this is suddenly > happening and direct communication technologies like Twitter and > texting (which seem primary vehicles) are only part of it. > > Anyway, this particular article I think is really timely and should > give us a lot to think about. > > Michael > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg > Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2018 6:03 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian > schools > > So in the fifteenth century, Gutenberg exapted extant technology > already widely available in China and published a single text using > moveable type which started a profound intellectual, cultural, and > social revolution whose effects we still feel today: the rise of > Protestantism, the Counter-Reformation in, among other places, Brazil, > the Wars of Religion in France, the vicissitudes of a > multii-confessional (political) State and ultimately those of a > multi-confessional (psychological) state, In the twentieth century, > Ford similarly exapted extant technology, this time nearly two > millenia later than China, and mass-produced automobiles using > Taylorism, forcing everybody to buy an identical product with interchangeable parts made by factories with interchangeable workers. > The automobile "revolution" did not even give us new roads, and in > Seoul today traffic moves notably slower than it would on horseback. > Clearly, there are some forms of technology that are actually > semiogenic--and others which merely circulate capital at a faster rate > and actually slow the movement of people and new ideas. > > So my question is very simple. How do we know that "Facebook" (which > as the name implies was originally designed to help Harvard freshmen > decide which classmates were sufficiently hot to "like") is really one > of the former technologies?.There are very clear signs , beyond the > obvious ones surrounding the American origins, that it belongs to the > latter category, and not a few of them appear in this very article. > First of all, the authors are honest enough to associate Facebook with > reactionary, xenophobic, populist movements like the clowns who run the "Five Stars" > movement in Italy. Second, on the very first page, the authors try but > do not really seem to be able to distinguish between the "post first > and organize later" technologies of Occupy Wall Street and the use of > social media by the four movements in the article (including one > actually called "Occupy Everything"). And thirdly, it is very hard for > me to pinpoint any actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking > which was made possible by Facebook. If anything, Facebook seems to > narrow semiogenic power to a single consumer/computer menu. Ford said, > you can get a Model A in any color you like so long as it's black. > Facebook tells us the same thing, but makes the verb "like" intransitive. > > David Kellogg > Sangmyung University > > Recent Article in *Early Years* > > The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and > the child?s first interrogatives doi/full/10.1080/09575146.2018.1431874> > > Free e-print available at: > https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full > > > On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 7:30 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > > wrote: > > > Dear xmca'ers, > > > > > > it is (bit over) due time for introducing the article for discussion > > from MCA's 2018 Issue 1, before Issue 2 comes upon us soon. > > > > > > The selected article, by Monica Ferreira Lemos and Fernando Rezende > > da Cunha J?nior, is about two topics that were thematised in the > > last ISCAR congress and that ought to be of much relevance to > > current and future CHAT-related research: Social media and social > > movements. In particular, the article examines how students use > > social media for the organization and development of 4 social movements in Brazil. > > > > > > The article is attached and is Free access during the discussion period. > > It can be accessed free in the following link: > > > > https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2017.1379823 > > > > > > The authors have kindly agreed to participate in the discussion and > > they will be introducing themselves soon. I hope you will find the > > article interesting and please don't be shy to share anything you > > might have learned reading it, anything you might wonder about it or > > that you would like see discussed. Having authors engage in dialogue > > is a great opportunity that this community offers and that makes > > sense the most when many of you participate. Good reading! > > > > ? > > > > Alfredo Jornet > > > > New article in *Design Studies* "Imagning Design: Transitive and > > intransitive dimensions" > > Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > > > > From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Mon Mar 12 05:34:43 2018 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2018 12:34:43 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools In-Reply-To: <0bdd10ce-7411-8083-533f-44fcfb50e928@marxists.org> References: <1520721034406.59651@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF245E@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> , <0bdd10ce-7411-8083-533f-44fcfb50e928@marxists.org> Message-ID: <1520858083490.87795@iped.uio.no> Thanks for finding and sharing the link, Andy, and thanks Michael and Mike for bringing the absolutely relevant connection to Parklands. There was not so long ago a discussion here as well as in a couple of articles in MCA about how crises leading to development most often result from quantitative increments that lead to qualitative leaps such that new forms of organization emerge from previous ones. So, David, I don't see why increments in the pace of circulation (e.g., of information) would not be expected to bring with them changes in the organisation of the whole economy system. I would not say that social media is just bringing a lot more of the same, just as I would not a priori reject the possibility that bringing a lot more of the same might not end up bringing new qualitative forms of communicating. The observation that "like" is intransitive in Facebook is interesting; but to me it needs to be put in its larger context of use. And so, are we analysing Facebook as a grammar closed up in itself, or as one more chain in a larger grammar of possible cooperation? I am myself concerned that Social Media like Facebook may be amplifying dichotomical thinking beyond the innocuous and often way-to-verbose essays we academics enjoy entertaining with much more complex verbal forms than Facebook's intransitive "likes", only that the confrontations now seem to be moving to family's dinner tables, quarrels among protesters in public squares, or previously unheard of incarcerations for publishing tweets and rap songs that critique the crown in a supposedly modern democracy like Spain (e.g.: http://cadenaser.com/ser/2018/02/20/tribunales/1519135083_106543.html). But the article here discussed also shows that there are forms of organization that these technologies are affording that may bring more positive changes, like the case again in Spain of March 8th women's strike, the extent of which no politician or journalist had anticipated and which led the government to quickly adopt a much more equity-friendly discourse than even the evening before (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_11iIELdfc). So, no, probably that one strike, or that one social media that may have made it possible, won't change the system. But they seem to incrementally add to something, don't they? Alfredo Jornet ________________________________ New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and intransitive dimensions" Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Andy Blunden Sent: 12 March 2018 06:39 To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools That headline does not exist, but is it this: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/07/us/parkland-students-social-media.html Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm On 12/03/2018 4:02 PM, mike cole wrote: > Michael - I have been trying to find a digital copy of a story in today's > NY Times titled "the social media warriors of parkland." For some reason it > is not visible on the digital version.... yet. Maybe someone out there in > xmca-land can find it for us? I will check again > in the morning to see if it appears. > It seems especially relevant to Monica and Fernando's article, and to > David's comment that " it is very hard for me to pinpoint any > actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made possible by > Facebook." The voices and forms of speaking used by the students was not, > so far as I could tell, the source of data. There are no quotations of any > students speaking differently. I assumed that this article was about > collective action. > Monica and Fernando - I confess I had difficulty following parts of the > article, perhaps because I am a very seldom user of Facebook. In > particular, I had difficulty understanding Figure 3. Were the people who > started M1 also those who started M2-M3? ( " Once students achieved the > object of the activity?in the first case, to avoid the closure of the > schools?they focused the protests on another object"). > > Did the M4 people get the idea from M1 through a FB connection form M1? Did > you get any sense of what distinguished pages that got a few hundred versus > 10,000 reactions? > > Harshad - Did you think the article failed to consider social issues? There > is no information about you on the xmca membership > page, so it is difficult to know from what part of the world you are > writing. Unless I miss my guess, some people will wonder at your > use of the word "man" where the local practice might put "humankind" or > some other gender inclusive term. > > David - Daylight saving time tonight so I find myself "working late." It > got me to wondering how many people live in Seoul. A lot, it turns out. > About 9-10 million. That got me to wondering about how much faster all > those people would be getting around on horses with all the horse plops to > clamber over. And all that hay to haul into town for the morning rush > hour. :-) > > mike > > On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Glassman, Michael > wrote: > >> Hi David, >> >> I'm sure those meddling kids won't come back on your lawn any time soon. >> >> But really, the article did not say Facebook is a new type of technology. >> I believe they said that it's a form of human-technology interaction and >> suggested perhaps social media was a new type of human-technology >> interaction. I don't agree with this phrasing. I tend to think of Facebook >> more as an application of Internet technology - but either way Facebook is >> just a form or an application. Is the internetworking of computer, radio >> and satellite communication an enormous step forward in how humans >> communicate. I think so - it's really extraordinary on a number of levels >> but that's really not the conversation for this article. >> >> I do think the authors have done an analysis that is interesting and >> possibly important, especially when one considers what is currently going >> on down in Parkland (some might be happy to know that, at least from what I >> have read, Facebook isn't dominant or even that important for these >> students. Adults have been using it more for larger organizational events >> like the March 14 walkout and the March 24 march). I have read some >> articles on organizing on online forums (and actually wrote a not very good >> one a few years back). Most of them are communications based an don't have >> strong theoretical underpinning which is why I think this article might be >> an important step forward. >> >> I think the idea of using third generation activity theory might be a good >> idea for this type of analysis. I myself have seen ties between the >> trialogical approach being developed by Hakkareinan and Paavola and what is >> going on down in Parkland. The students are creating their own projects and >> then getting the larger community to buy in to and support what they are >> doing which is in turn changing the quality of their activities. I have my >> own ideas on why this is suddenly happening and direct communication >> technologies like Twitter and texting (which seem primary vehicles) are >> only part of it. >> >> Anyway, this particular article I think is really timely and should give >> us a lot to think about. >> >> Michael >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg >> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2018 6:03 PM >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools >> >> So in the fifteenth century, Gutenberg exapted extant technology already >> widely available in China and published a single text using moveable type >> which started a profound intellectual, cultural, and social revolution >> whose effects we still feel today: the rise of Protestantism, the >> Counter-Reformation in, among other places, Brazil, the Wars of Religion in >> France, the vicissitudes of a multii-confessional (political) State and >> ultimately those of a multi-confessional (psychological) state, In the >> twentieth century, Ford similarly exapted extant technology, this time >> nearly two millenia later than China, and mass-produced automobiles using >> Taylorism, forcing everybody to buy an identical product with >> interchangeable parts made by factories with interchangeable workers. >> The automobile "revolution" did not even give us new roads, and in Seoul >> today traffic moves notably slower than it would on horseback. Clearly, >> there are some forms of technology that are actually semiogenic--and others >> which merely circulate capital at a faster rate and actually slow the >> movement of people and new ideas. >> >> So my question is very simple. How do we know that "Facebook" (which as >> the name implies was originally designed to help Harvard freshmen decide >> which classmates were sufficiently hot to "like") is really one of the >> former technologies?.There are very clear signs , beyond the obvious ones >> surrounding the American origins, that it belongs to the latter category, >> and not a few of them appear in this very article. First of all, the >> authors are honest enough to associate Facebook with reactionary, >> xenophobic, populist movements like the clowns who run the "Five Stars" >> movement in Italy. Second, on the very first page, the authors try but do >> not really seem to be able to distinguish between the "post first and >> organize later" technologies of Occupy Wall Street and the use of social >> media by the four movements in the article (including one actually called >> "Occupy Everything"). And thirdly, it is very hard for me to pinpoint any >> actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made possible >> by Facebook. If anything, Facebook seems to narrow semiogenic power to a >> single consumer/computer menu. Ford said, you can get a Model A in any >> color you like so long as it's black. Facebook tells us the same thing, but >> makes the verb "like" intransitive. >> >> David Kellogg >> Sangmyung University >> >> Recent Article in *Early Years* >> >> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and the >> child?s first interrogatives > doi/full/10.1080/09575146.2018.1431874> >> >> Free e-print available at: >> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full >> >> >> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 7:30 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil >> wrote: >> >>> Dear xmca'ers, >>> >>> >>> it is (bit over) due time for introducing the article for discussion >>> from MCA's 2018 Issue 1, before Issue 2 comes upon us soon. >>> >>> >>> The selected article, by Monica Ferreira Lemos and Fernando Rezende da >>> Cunha J?nior, is about two topics that were thematised in the last >>> ISCAR congress and that ought to be of much relevance to current and >>> future CHAT-related research: Social media and social movements. In >>> particular, the article examines how students use social media for the >>> organization and development of 4 social movements in Brazil. >>> >>> >>> The article is attached and is Free access during the discussion period. >>> It can be accessed free in the following link: >>> >>> https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2017.1379823 >>> >>> >>> The authors have kindly agreed to participate in the discussion and >>> they will be introducing themselves soon. I hope you will find the >>> article interesting and please don't be shy to share anything you >>> might have learned reading it, anything you might wonder about it or >>> that you would like see discussed. Having authors engage in dialogue >>> is a great opportunity that this community offers and that makes sense >>> the most when many of you participate. Good reading! >>> >>> ? >>> >>> Alfredo Jornet >>> >>> New article in *Design Studies* "Imagning Design: Transitive and >>> intransitive dimensions" >>> Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr >>> >> From mcole@ucsd.edu Mon Mar 12 08:44:58 2018 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2018 08:44:58 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: Registration is Now Open for SQIP 2018 Conference, May 21-22nd at Duquesne University In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: For those of you in the area ...... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Elizabeth Fein Date: Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 8:18 AM Subject: Registration is Now Open for SQIP 2018 Conference, May 21-22nd at Duquesne University To: QUAL@listserv.temple.edu Dear SQIP Community, Registration is now open for our 2018 Annual Conference, May 21st and 22nd at Duquesne University, as well as for our Pre-Conference Workshop on phenomenological analysis with Frederick J. Wertz, on the afternoon of May 20th. Please click the following link to be taken to our registration page. https://form.jotform.com/80355893493973 You will have the option of registering as a student SQIP member ($75), a student non-member ($125), a faculty/professional SQIP member ($200) or a faculty/professional SQIP non-member ($250). For those of you who are not current members, you can find out more about becoming a SQIP member here. On this registration page, you can also register for our pre-conference workshop on phenomenological analysis featuring Frederick J. Wertz, sign up for inexpensive on-campus housing or a room at our hotel block at the Cambria Suites, and let us know whether you'd like to hang out with other SQIP attendees at an informal social event on Sunday night. Please let us know if you have any questions about the registration process by emailing us at info@qualpsy.org. We look forward to seeing you in May! From greg.a.thompson@gmail.com Mon Mar 12 11:49:46 2018 From: greg.a.thompson@gmail.com (Greg Thompson) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2018 12:49:46 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools In-Reply-To: <1520858083490.87795@iped.uio.no> References: <1520721034406.59651@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF245E@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <0bdd10ce-7411-8083-533f-44fcfb50e928@marxists.org> <1520858083490.87795@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: David, FB does seem to be something new as a medium of communication in as much as it operates on an asynchronic timescale that previously did not exist (i.e., conversations that happen at the timescale of a few hours, sometimes days, and very very seldom, weeks). Along with that is the cheapness of the medium of communication (vs. say, a telegraph or a letter - both of which are forms of asynchronous communication, more the letter than the telegraph). Those are two things that seem new to me about the medium (although list-serves, those technological dinosaurs, seem to be able to do both of these things and yet FB is not the same thing as a list serve. What might account for that difference?). But that question seems a little beside the point of this article. The question here seems to be: what did FB do in *this case*? Here are some suggestions from the authors of what FB did for the Four Movements: "by using Facebook pages as a communicative tool, students could coordinate demonstrations occurring at the same time in different cities, which was possible due to the expansion in the number of Facebook pages." (p. 61) and, less thrillingly (for those who care about "free speech" and "public discussion", but perhaps censoring is an important part of any social movement? David, maybe this was part of your point?): "From the posts analysed in this study, we observed that page organizers authorized only posts that supported the Four Movements, blocking or deleting posts that were against them." and: "Having a motive and motivation, as suggested by Rantavuori and colleagues (2016), the use of Facebook pages as a form of human?technology interaction strengthened the collaborative aspect of the activities and enabled new ways of envisioning the future, which potentializes collaborative agency." and most simply, in conclusion: "In this study, we discussed how students used social media, more specifically Facebook pages, as a mediational communicative tool for organizing, developing, and expanding the Four Movements. The expansive learning process demonstrated by the students and the transformation of the object of the protest was enhanced by using these networks as a form of human?technology interaction." and one that I didn't quite understand: "In contrast to previous research on human?technology interaction (Bardram & Doryab, 2011; Cunha Jr., Van Oers, & Kontopodis, 2016), the instability faced by the Four Movements led to the adequacy of the instrument, and to the transformation of the object." (p. 63). Others' thoughts? -greg On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 6:34 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > Thanks for finding and sharing the link, Andy, and thanks Michael and Mike > for bringing the absolutely relevant connection to Parklands. > > There was not so long ago a discussion here as well as in a couple of > articles in MCA about how crises leading to development most often result > from quantitative increments that lead to qualitative leaps such that new > forms of organization emerge from previous ones. So, David, I don't see why > increments in the pace of circulation (e.g., of information) would not be > expected to bring with them changes in the organisation of the whole > economy system. I would not say that social media is just bringing a lot > more of the same, just as I would not a priori reject the possibility that > bringing a lot more of the same might not end up bringing new qualitative > forms of communicating. The observation that "like" is intransitive in > Facebook is interesting; but to me it needs to be put in its larger context > of use. And so, are we analysing Facebook as a grammar closed up in itself, > or as one more chain in a larger grammar of possible cooperation? > > I am myself concerned that Social Media like Facebook may be amplifying > dichotomical thinking beyond the innocuous and often way-to-verbose essays > we academics enjoy entertaining with much more complex verbal forms than > Facebook's intransitive "likes", only that the confrontations now seem to > be moving to family's dinner tables, quarrels among protesters in public > squares, or previously unheard of incarcerations for publishing tweets and > rap songs that critique the crown in a supposedly modern democracy like > Spain (e.g.: http://cadenaser.com/ser/2018/02/20/tribunales/1519135083_ > 106543.html). But the article here discussed also shows that there are > forms of organization that these technologies are affording that may bring > more positive changes, like the case again in Spain of March 8th women's > strike, the extent of which no politician or journalist had anticipated and > which led the government to quickly adopt a much more equity-friendly > discourse than even the evening before (https://www.youtube.com/ > watch?v=4_11iIELdfc). So, no, probably that one strike, or that one > social media that may have made it possible, won't change the system. But > they seem to incrementally add to something, don't they? > > Alfredo Jornet > ________________________________ > New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and > intransitive dimensions" > Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > > ________________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Andy Blunden > Sent: 12 March 2018 06:39 > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools > > That headline does not exist, but is it this: > > https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/07/us/parkland-students-social-media.html > > Andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > On 12/03/2018 4:02 PM, mike cole wrote: > > Michael - I have been trying to find a digital copy of a story in today's > > NY Times titled "the social media warriors of parkland." For some reason > it > > is not visible on the digital version.... yet. Maybe someone out there in > > xmca-land can find it for us? I will check again > > in the morning to see if it appears. > > It seems especially relevant to Monica and Fernando's article, and > to > > David's comment that " it is very hard for me to pinpoint any > > actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made > possible by > > Facebook." The voices and forms of speaking used by the students was > not, > > so far as I could tell, the source of data. There are no quotations of > any > > students speaking differently. I assumed that this article was about > > collective action. > > Monica and Fernando - I confess I had difficulty following parts of the > > article, perhaps because I am a very seldom user of Facebook. In > > particular, I had difficulty understanding Figure 3. Were the people who > > started M1 also those who started M2-M3? ( " Once students achieved the > > object of the activity?in the first case, to avoid the closure of the > > schools?they focused the protests on another object"). > > > > Did the M4 people get the idea from M1 through a FB connection form M1? > Did > > you get any sense of what distinguished pages that got a few hundred > versus > > 10,000 reactions? > > > > Harshad - Did you think the article failed to consider social issues? > There > > is no information about you on the xmca membership > > page, so it is difficult to know from what part of the world you are > > writing. Unless I miss my guess, some people will wonder at your > > use of the word "man" where the local practice might put "humankind" or > > some other gender inclusive term. > > > > David - Daylight saving time tonight so I find myself "working late." It > > got me to wondering how many people live in Seoul. A lot, it turns out. > > About 9-10 million. That got me to wondering about how much faster all > > those people would be getting around on horses with all the horse plops > to > > clamber over. And all that hay to haul into town for the morning rush > > hour. :-) > > > > mike > > > > On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Glassman, Michael > > wrote: > > > >> Hi David, > >> > >> I'm sure those meddling kids won't come back on your lawn any time soon. > >> > >> But really, the article did not say Facebook is a new type of > technology. > >> I believe they said that it's a form of human-technology interaction and > >> suggested perhaps social media was a new type of human-technology > >> interaction. I don't agree with this phrasing. I tend to think of > Facebook > >> more as an application of Internet technology - but either way Facebook > is > >> just a form or an application. Is the internetworking of computer, radio > >> and satellite communication an enormous step forward in how humans > >> communicate. I think so - it's really extraordinary on a number of > levels > >> but that's really not the conversation for this article. > >> > >> I do think the authors have done an analysis that is interesting and > >> possibly important, especially when one considers what is currently > going > >> on down in Parkland (some might be happy to know that, at least from > what I > >> have read, Facebook isn't dominant or even that important for these > >> students. Adults have been using it more for larger organizational > events > >> like the March 14 walkout and the March 24 march). I have read some > >> articles on organizing on online forums (and actually wrote a not very > good > >> one a few years back). Most of them are communications based an don't > have > >> strong theoretical underpinning which is why I think this article might > be > >> an important step forward. > >> > >> I think the idea of using third generation activity theory might be a > good > >> idea for this type of analysis. I myself have seen ties between the > >> trialogical approach being developed by Hakkareinan and Paavola and > what is > >> going on down in Parkland. The students are creating their own projects > and > >> then getting the larger community to buy in to and support what they are > >> doing which is in turn changing the quality of their activities. I have > my > >> own ideas on why this is suddenly happening and direct communication > >> technologies like Twitter and texting (which seem primary vehicles) are > >> only part of it. > >> > >> Anyway, this particular article I think is really timely and should give > >> us a lot to think about. > >> > >> Michael > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > >> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg > >> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2018 6:03 PM > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian > schools > >> > >> So in the fifteenth century, Gutenberg exapted extant technology already > >> widely available in China and published a single text using moveable > type > >> which started a profound intellectual, cultural, and social revolution > >> whose effects we still feel today: the rise of Protestantism, the > >> Counter-Reformation in, among other places, Brazil, the Wars of > Religion in > >> France, the vicissitudes of a multii-confessional (political) State and > >> ultimately those of a multi-confessional (psychological) state, In the > >> twentieth century, Ford similarly exapted extant technology, this time > >> nearly two millenia later than China, and mass-produced automobiles > using > >> Taylorism, forcing everybody to buy an identical product with > >> interchangeable parts made by factories with interchangeable workers. > >> The automobile "revolution" did not even give us new roads, and in Seoul > >> today traffic moves notably slower than it would on horseback. Clearly, > >> there are some forms of technology that are actually semiogenic--and > others > >> which merely circulate capital at a faster rate and actually slow the > >> movement of people and new ideas. > >> > >> So my question is very simple. How do we know that "Facebook" (which as > >> the name implies was originally designed to help Harvard freshmen decide > >> which classmates were sufficiently hot to "like") is really one of the > >> former technologies?.There are very clear signs , beyond the obvious > ones > >> surrounding the American origins, that it belongs to the latter > category, > >> and not a few of them appear in this very article. First of all, the > >> authors are honest enough to associate Facebook with reactionary, > >> xenophobic, populist movements like the clowns who run the "Five Stars" > >> movement in Italy. Second, on the very first page, the authors try but > do > >> not really seem to be able to distinguish between the "post first and > >> organize later" technologies of Occupy Wall Street and the use of social > >> media by the four movements in the article (including one actually > called > >> "Occupy Everything"). And thirdly, it is very hard for me to pinpoint > any > >> actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made > possible > >> by Facebook. If anything, Facebook seems to narrow semiogenic power to a > >> single consumer/computer menu. Ford said, you can get a Model A in any > >> color you like so long as it's black. Facebook tells us the same thing, > but > >> makes the verb "like" intransitive. > >> > >> David Kellogg > >> Sangmyung University > >> > >> Recent Article in *Early Years* > >> > >> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and the > >> child?s first interrogatives >> doi/full/10.1080/09575146.2018.1431874> > >> > >> Free e-print available at: > >> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full > >> > >> > >> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 7:30 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Dear xmca'ers, > >>> > >>> > >>> it is (bit over) due time for introducing the article for discussion > >>> from MCA's 2018 Issue 1, before Issue 2 comes upon us soon. > >>> > >>> > >>> The selected article, by Monica Ferreira Lemos and Fernando Rezende da > >>> Cunha J?nior, is about two topics that were thematised in the last > >>> ISCAR congress and that ought to be of much relevance to current and > >>> future CHAT-related research: Social media and social movements. In > >>> particular, the article examines how students use social media for the > >>> organization and development of 4 social movements in Brazil. > >>> > >>> > >>> The article is attached and is Free access during the discussion > period. > >>> It can be accessed free in the following link: > >>> > >>> https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2017.1379823 > >>> > >>> > >>> The authors have kindly agreed to participate in the discussion and > >>> they will be introducing themselves soon. I hope you will find the > >>> article interesting and please don't be shy to share anything you > >>> might have learned reading it, anything you might wonder about it or > >>> that you would like see discussed. Having authors engage in dialogue > >>> is a great opportunity that this community offers and that makes sense > >>> the most when many of you participate. Good reading! > >>> > >>> ? > >>> > >>> Alfredo Jornet > >>> > >>> New article in *Design Studies* "Imagning Design: Transitive and > >>> intransitive dimensions" > >>> Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > >>> > >> > > -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson From mcole@ucsd.edu Mon Mar 12 12:02:08 2018 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2018 12:02:08 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools In-Reply-To: References: <1520721034406.59651@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF245E@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <0bdd10ce-7411-8083-533f-44fcfb50e928@marxists.org> <1520858083490.87795@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: Monica, Fernando et al..... The US news is full of stories about a national student walkout over guns & schools. Here in San Diego, where mr trump is expected tomorrow, local school principals are supporting students to walk out. Question: Here in the US a lot of the communicative action appears to be on twitter, instagram, etc.... How would one study those more emphemeral media? For example> https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/schools-brace-for-massive-student-walkouts-over-gun-violence . Thanks Andy for finding the story. I had the mis-impression that headlines in the print edition were repeated in the online version. (see meme on grandpa and computer). I still don't understand Figure 3 properly to be able to link it to questions of transformative agency. mike On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 11:49 AM, Greg Thompson wrote: > David, > FB does seem to be something new as a medium of communication in as much as > it operates on an asynchronic timescale that previously did not exist > (i.e., conversations that happen at the timescale of a few hours, sometimes > days, and very very seldom, weeks). Along with that is the cheapness of the > medium of communication (vs. say, a telegraph or a letter - both of which > are forms of asynchronous communication, more the letter than the > telegraph). > Those are two things that seem new to me about the medium (although > list-serves, those technological dinosaurs, seem to be able to do both of > these things and yet FB is not the same thing as a list serve. What might > account for that difference?). > > But that question seems a little beside the point of this article. The > question here seems to be: what did FB do in *this case*? > > Here are some suggestions from the authors of what FB did for the Four > Movements: > > "by using Facebook pages as a communicative tool, students could coordinate > demonstrations occurring at the same time in different cities, which was > possible due to the expansion in the number of Facebook pages." (p. 61) > > and, less thrillingly (for those who care about "free speech" and "public > discussion", but perhaps censoring is an important part of any social > movement? David, maybe this was part of your point?): > "From the posts analysed in this study, we observed that page organizers > authorized only posts that supported the Four Movements, blocking or > deleting posts that were against them." > > and: > "Having a motive and motivation, as suggested by Rantavuori and colleagues > (2016), the use of Facebook pages as a form of human?technology interaction > strengthened the collaborative aspect of the activities and enabled new > ways of envisioning the future, which potentializes collaborative agency." > > and most simply, in conclusion: > "In this study, we discussed how students used social media, more > specifically Facebook pages, as a > mediational communicative tool for organizing, developing, and expanding > the Four Movements. > The expansive learning process demonstrated by the students and the > transformation of the object of > the protest was enhanced by using these networks as a form of > human?technology interaction." > > and one that I didn't quite understand: > "In contrast to previous research on human?technology interaction (Bardram > & Doryab, 2011; Cunha > Jr., Van Oers, & Kontopodis, 2016), the instability faced by the Four > Movements led to the adequacy > of the instrument, and to the transformation of the object." (p. 63). > > Others' thoughts? > -greg > > > On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 6:34 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > wrote: > > > Thanks for finding and sharing the link, Andy, and thanks Michael and > Mike > > for bringing the absolutely relevant connection to Parklands. > > > > There was not so long ago a discussion here as well as in a couple of > > articles in MCA about how crises leading to development most often result > > from quantitative increments that lead to qualitative leaps such that new > > forms of organization emerge from previous ones. So, David, I don't see > why > > increments in the pace of circulation (e.g., of information) would not be > > expected to bring with them changes in the organisation of the whole > > economy system. I would not say that social media is just bringing a lot > > more of the same, just as I would not a priori reject the possibility > that > > bringing a lot more of the same might not end up bringing new qualitative > > forms of communicating. The observation that "like" is intransitive in > > Facebook is interesting; but to me it needs to be put in its larger > context > > of use. And so, are we analysing Facebook as a grammar closed up in > itself, > > or as one more chain in a larger grammar of possible cooperation? > > > > I am myself concerned that Social Media like Facebook may be amplifying > > dichotomical thinking beyond the innocuous and often way-to-verbose > essays > > we academics enjoy entertaining with much more complex verbal forms than > > Facebook's intransitive "likes", only that the confrontations now seem to > > be moving to family's dinner tables, quarrels among protesters in public > > squares, or previously unheard of incarcerations for publishing tweets > and > > rap songs that critique the crown in a supposedly modern democracy like > > Spain (e.g.: http://cadenaser.com/ser/2018/02/20/tribunales/1519135083_ > > 106543.html). But the article here discussed also shows that there are > > forms of organization that these technologies are affording that may > bring > > more positive changes, like the case again in Spain of March 8th women's > > strike, the extent of which no politician or journalist had anticipated > and > > which led the government to quickly adopt a much more equity-friendly > > discourse than even the evening before (https://www.youtube.com/ > > watch?v=4_11iIELdfc). So, no, probably that one strike, or that one > > social media that may have made it possible, won't change the system. But > > they seem to incrementally add to something, don't they? > > > > Alfredo Jornet > > ________________________________ > > New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and > > intransitive dimensions" > > Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > > > > ________________________________________ > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > on behalf of Andy Blunden > > Sent: 12 March 2018 06:39 > > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian > schools > > > > That headline does not exist, but is it this: > > > > https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/07/us/parkland-students- > social-media.html > > > > Andy > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Andy Blunden > > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > > On 12/03/2018 4:02 PM, mike cole wrote: > > > Michael - I have been trying to find a digital copy of a story in > today's > > > NY Times titled "the social media warriors of parkland." For some > reason > > it > > > is not visible on the digital version.... yet. Maybe someone out there > in > > > xmca-land can find it for us? I will check again > > > in the morning to see if it appears. > > > It seems especially relevant to Monica and Fernando's article, and > > to > > > David's comment that " it is very hard for me to pinpoint any > > > actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made > > possible by > > > Facebook." The voices and forms of speaking used by the students was > > not, > > > so far as I could tell, the source of data. There are no quotations of > > any > > > students speaking differently. I assumed that this article was about > > > collective action. > > > Monica and Fernando - I confess I had difficulty following parts of the > > > article, perhaps because I am a very seldom user of Facebook. In > > > particular, I had difficulty understanding Figure 3. Were the people > who > > > started M1 also those who started M2-M3? ( " Once students achieved the > > > object of the activity?in the first case, to avoid the closure of the > > > schools?they focused the protests on another object"). > > > > > > Did the M4 people get the idea from M1 through a FB connection form M1? > > Did > > > you get any sense of what distinguished pages that got a few hundred > > versus > > > 10,000 reactions? > > > > > > Harshad - Did you think the article failed to consider social issues? > > There > > > is no information about you on the xmca membership > > > page, so it is difficult to know from what part of the world you are > > > writing. Unless I miss my guess, some people will wonder at your > > > use of the word "man" where the local practice might put "humankind" or > > > some other gender inclusive term. > > > > > > David - Daylight saving time tonight so I find myself "working late." > It > > > got me to wondering how many people live in Seoul. A lot, it turns out. > > > About 9-10 million. That got me to wondering about how much faster all > > > those people would be getting around on horses with all the horse plops > > to > > > clamber over. And all that hay to haul into town for the morning rush > > > hour. :-) > > > > > > mike > > > > > > On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Glassman, Michael < > glassman.13@osu.edu> > > > wrote: > > > > > >> Hi David, > > >> > > >> I'm sure those meddling kids won't come back on your lawn any time > soon. > > >> > > >> But really, the article did not say Facebook is a new type of > > technology. > > >> I believe they said that it's a form of human-technology interaction > and > > >> suggested perhaps social media was a new type of human-technology > > >> interaction. I don't agree with this phrasing. I tend to think of > > Facebook > > >> more as an application of Internet technology - but either way > Facebook > > is > > >> just a form or an application. Is the internetworking of computer, > radio > > >> and satellite communication an enormous step forward in how humans > > >> communicate. I think so - it's really extraordinary on a number of > > levels > > >> but that's really not the conversation for this article. > > >> > > >> I do think the authors have done an analysis that is interesting and > > >> possibly important, especially when one considers what is currently > > going > > >> on down in Parkland (some might be happy to know that, at least from > > what I > > >> have read, Facebook isn't dominant or even that important for these > > >> students. Adults have been using it more for larger organizational > > events > > >> like the March 14 walkout and the March 24 march). I have read some > > >> articles on organizing on online forums (and actually wrote a not very > > good > > >> one a few years back). Most of them are communications based an don't > > have > > >> strong theoretical underpinning which is why I think this article > might > > be > > >> an important step forward. > > >> > > >> I think the idea of using third generation activity theory might be a > > good > > >> idea for this type of analysis. I myself have seen ties between the > > >> trialogical approach being developed by Hakkareinan and Paavola and > > what is > > >> going on down in Parkland. The students are creating their own > projects > > and > > >> then getting the larger community to buy in to and support what they > are > > >> doing which is in turn changing the quality of their activities. I > have > > my > > >> own ideas on why this is suddenly happening and direct communication > > >> technologies like Twitter and texting (which seem primary vehicles) > are > > >> only part of it. > > >> > > >> Anyway, this particular article I think is really timely and should > give > > >> us a lot to think about. > > >> > > >> Michael > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > >> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg > > >> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2018 6:03 PM > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian > > schools > > >> > > >> So in the fifteenth century, Gutenberg exapted extant technology > already > > >> widely available in China and published a single text using moveable > > type > > >> which started a profound intellectual, cultural, and social revolution > > >> whose effects we still feel today: the rise of Protestantism, the > > >> Counter-Reformation in, among other places, Brazil, the Wars of > > Religion in > > >> France, the vicissitudes of a multii-confessional (political) State > and > > >> ultimately those of a multi-confessional (psychological) state, In the > > >> twentieth century, Ford similarly exapted extant technology, this time > > >> nearly two millenia later than China, and mass-produced automobiles > > using > > >> Taylorism, forcing everybody to buy an identical product with > > >> interchangeable parts made by factories with interchangeable workers. > > >> The automobile "revolution" did not even give us new roads, and in > Seoul > > >> today traffic moves notably slower than it would on horseback. > Clearly, > > >> there are some forms of technology that are actually semiogenic--and > > others > > >> which merely circulate capital at a faster rate and actually slow the > > >> movement of people and new ideas. > > >> > > >> So my question is very simple. How do we know that "Facebook" (which > as > > >> the name implies was originally designed to help Harvard freshmen > decide > > >> which classmates were sufficiently hot to "like") is really one of the > > >> former technologies?.There are very clear signs , beyond the obvious > > ones > > >> surrounding the American origins, that it belongs to the latter > > category, > > >> and not a few of them appear in this very article. First of all, the > > >> authors are honest enough to associate Facebook with reactionary, > > >> xenophobic, populist movements like the clowns who run the "Five > Stars" > > >> movement in Italy. Second, on the very first page, the authors try but > > do > > >> not really seem to be able to distinguish between the "post first and > > >> organize later" technologies of Occupy Wall Street and the use of > social > > >> media by the four movements in the article (including one actually > > called > > >> "Occupy Everything"). And thirdly, it is very hard for me to pinpoint > > any > > >> actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made > > possible > > >> by Facebook. If anything, Facebook seems to narrow semiogenic power > to a > > >> single consumer/computer menu. Ford said, you can get a Model A in any > > >> color you like so long as it's black. Facebook tells us the same > thing, > > but > > >> makes the verb "like" intransitive. > > >> > > >> David Kellogg > > >> Sangmyung University > > >> > > >> Recent Article in *Early Years* > > >> > > >> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and > the > > >> child?s first interrogatives > >> doi/full/10.1080/09575146.2018.1431874> > > >> > > >> Free e-print available at: > > >> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full > > >> > > >> > > >> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 7:30 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >>> Dear xmca'ers, > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> it is (bit over) due time for introducing the article for discussion > > >>> from MCA's 2018 Issue 1, before Issue 2 comes upon us soon. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> The selected article, by Monica Ferreira Lemos and Fernando Rezende > da > > >>> Cunha J?nior, is about two topics that were thematised in the last > > >>> ISCAR congress and that ought to be of much relevance to current and > > >>> future CHAT-related research: Social media and social movements. In > > >>> particular, the article examines how students use social media for > the > > >>> organization and development of 4 social movements in Brazil. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> The article is attached and is Free access during the discussion > > period. > > >>> It can be accessed free in the following link: > > >>> > > >>> https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2017.1379823 > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> The authors have kindly agreed to participate in the discussion and > > >>> they will be introducing themselves soon. I hope you will find the > > >>> article interesting and please don't be shy to share anything you > > >>> might have learned reading it, anything you might wonder about it or > > >>> that you would like see discussed. Having authors engage in dialogue > > >>> is a great opportunity that this community offers and that makes > sense > > >>> the most when many of you participate. Good reading! > > >>> > > >>> ? > > >>> > > >>> Alfredo Jornet > > >>> > > >>> New article in *Design Studies* "Imagning Design: Transitive and > > >>> intransitive dimensions" > > >>> Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > > >>> > > >> > > > > > > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > From dkellogg60@gmail.com Mon Mar 12 14:49:20 2018 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2018 06:49:20 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools In-Reply-To: References: <1520721034406.59651@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF245E@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <0bdd10ce-7411-8083-533f-44fcfb50e928@marxists.org> <1520858083490.87795@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: We know in retrospect that some shifts in semiohistory matter (e.g. writing, printing, grammatical metaphor) and others lead to dead ends (carrier pigeons, eight track tapes, epistolary novels). Is this simply a case of our own anatomy is the key to the anatomy of the ape, or is there some way to tell which technologies, exapted for purposes which were quite alien to the ones their inventors had in mind, will offer differences that can make a difference? I think that Mike and Greg and others are quite right to say that this is not the question that the authors of the article ask. But it's my question, and it's a real question. In a paper on "Language Evolving", Halliday gives a very fast-forward "semiohistory" in three Fs--forest, farm, and factory. He points out that forest lore tends to be quite down-to-earth (an old girlfriend of mine who spent time in the forests of Borneo with the Penan once sent me a dart tipped with curare as a birthday present, but pointed out the Penan themselves don't use them as tokens of anything, but only as tools to change the environment). Farm lore is cyclical, discursive, and often written for the first time. Factory lore has many of the qualities we find in printing presses and assembly lines: interchangeable parts, syntagmatic variation combined with paradigmatic choices, and complex unity between the individual part and the whole. Halliday wonders if we are on the threshold of a fourth F, namely fantasy, which corresponds to work in offices. Historically, the verb "like" meant "please"; that's why Iago says "That likes me not" when he sees Cassio doing something which he thinks will displease Othello. In Korean, it still has this meaning: we don't say "I like it"; rather "This pleases". The relationship is what Halliday calls "ergative": that is, the relationship we find when people interact not with other people but with things. Mike opened the door. The door opened. Mike boiled the kettle. The kettle boiled. Mike drove the car. The car drove. Mike booted up the computer, etc. The "Song of the Summer" here in Korea was called "Likey Likey Likey" and it is almost entirely written around the highly ergative premise of "me likey?" (i.e. "Do I please you?", but to put it that way is precisely to miss the elision of the liking subject). https://colorcodedlyrics.com/2017/10/twice-likey Halliday says that English is currently in transition, from a "heroic" SVO style, where actors perform activities on and for objects, to a much more ergative OV style, where stuff just happens and the agent is unspoken. Since the AT in CHAT rather presupposes the SVO style, it seems to me discussion-worthy. So my question--and it is not the question asked in the article, but a real question nevertheless--is to whether this constitutes an affordance for qualitative progress in meaning-making or whether in the long run it is simply more of the same. David Kellogg Sangmyung University Recent Article in *Early Years* The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and the child?s first interrogatives Free e-print available at: https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 4:02 AM, mike cole wrote: > Monica, Fernando et al..... > > The US news is full of stories about a national student walkout over guns & > schools. Here in San Diego, where mr trump is expected tomorrow, local > school principals are supporting students to walk out. > > Question: Here in the US a lot of the communicative action appears to be on > twitter, instagram, etc.... How would one study > those more emphemeral media? > > For example> > https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/schools-brace-for- > massive-student-walkouts-over-gun-violence > . > > Thanks Andy for finding the story. I had the mis-impression that headlines > in the print edition were repeated > in the online version. (see meme on grandpa and computer). > > I still don't understand Figure 3 properly to be able to link it to > questions of transformative agency. > > mike > > On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 11:49 AM, Greg Thompson > > wrote: > > > David, > > FB does seem to be something new as a medium of communication in as much > as > > it operates on an asynchronic timescale that previously did not exist > > (i.e., conversations that happen at the timescale of a few hours, > sometimes > > days, and very very seldom, weeks). Along with that is the cheapness of > the > > medium of communication (vs. say, a telegraph or a letter - both of which > > are forms of asynchronous communication, more the letter than the > > telegraph). > > Those are two things that seem new to me about the medium (although > > list-serves, those technological dinosaurs, seem to be able to do both of > > these things and yet FB is not the same thing as a list serve. What might > > account for that difference?). > > > > But that question seems a little beside the point of this article. The > > question here seems to be: what did FB do in *this case*? > > > > Here are some suggestions from the authors of what FB did for the Four > > Movements: > > > > "by using Facebook pages as a communicative tool, students could > coordinate > > demonstrations occurring at the same time in different cities, which was > > possible due to the expansion in the number of Facebook pages." (p. 61) > > > > and, less thrillingly (for those who care about "free speech" and "public > > discussion", but perhaps censoring is an important part of any social > > movement? David, maybe this was part of your point?): > > "From the posts analysed in this study, we observed that page organizers > > authorized only posts that supported the Four Movements, blocking or > > deleting posts that were against them." > > > > and: > > "Having a motive and motivation, as suggested by Rantavuori and > colleagues > > (2016), the use of Facebook pages as a form of human?technology > interaction > > strengthened the collaborative aspect of the activities and enabled new > > ways of envisioning the future, which potentializes collaborative > agency." > > > > and most simply, in conclusion: > > "In this study, we discussed how students used social media, more > > specifically Facebook pages, as a > > mediational communicative tool for organizing, developing, and expanding > > the Four Movements. > > The expansive learning process demonstrated by the students and the > > transformation of the object of > > the protest was enhanced by using these networks as a form of > > human?technology interaction." > > > > and one that I didn't quite understand: > > "In contrast to previous research on human?technology interaction > (Bardram > > & Doryab, 2011; Cunha > > Jr., Van Oers, & Kontopodis, 2016), the instability faced by the Four > > Movements led to the adequacy > > of the instrument, and to the transformation of the object." (p. 63). > > > > Others' thoughts? > > -greg > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 6:34 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > > > wrote: > > > > > Thanks for finding and sharing the link, Andy, and thanks Michael and > > Mike > > > for bringing the absolutely relevant connection to Parklands. > > > > > > There was not so long ago a discussion here as well as in a couple of > > > articles in MCA about how crises leading to development most often > result > > > from quantitative increments that lead to qualitative leaps such that > new > > > forms of organization emerge from previous ones. So, David, I don't see > > why > > > increments in the pace of circulation (e.g., of information) would not > be > > > expected to bring with them changes in the organisation of the whole > > > economy system. I would not say that social media is just bringing a > lot > > > more of the same, just as I would not a priori reject the possibility > > that > > > bringing a lot more of the same might not end up bringing new > qualitative > > > forms of communicating. The observation that "like" is intransitive in > > > Facebook is interesting; but to me it needs to be put in its larger > > context > > > of use. And so, are we analysing Facebook as a grammar closed up in > > itself, > > > or as one more chain in a larger grammar of possible cooperation? > > > > > > I am myself concerned that Social Media like Facebook may be amplifying > > > dichotomical thinking beyond the innocuous and often way-to-verbose > > essays > > > we academics enjoy entertaining with much more complex verbal forms > than > > > Facebook's intransitive "likes", only that the confrontations now seem > to > > > be moving to family's dinner tables, quarrels among protesters in > public > > > squares, or previously unheard of incarcerations for publishing tweets > > and > > > rap songs that critique the crown in a supposedly modern democracy like > > > Spain (e.g.: http://cadenaser.com/ser/2018/ > 02/20/tribunales/1519135083_ > > > 106543.html). But the article here discussed also shows that there are > > > forms of organization that these technologies are affording that may > > bring > > > more positive changes, like the case again in Spain of March 8th > women's > > > strike, the extent of which no politician or journalist had anticipated > > and > > > which led the government to quickly adopt a much more equity-friendly > > > discourse than even the evening before (https://www.youtube.com/ > > > watch?v=4_11iIELdfc). So, no, probably that one strike, or that one > > > social media that may have made it possible, won't change the system. > But > > > they seem to incrementally add to something, don't they? > > > > > > Alfredo Jornet > > > ________________________________ > > > New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and > > > intransitive dimensions" > > > Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > > > > > > ________________________________________ > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > on behalf of Andy Blunden > > > Sent: 12 March 2018 06:39 > > > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian > > schools > > > > > > That headline does not exist, but is it this: > > > > > > https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/07/us/parkland-students- > > social-media.html > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Andy Blunden > > > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > > > On 12/03/2018 4:02 PM, mike cole wrote: > > > > Michael - I have been trying to find a digital copy of a story in > > today's > > > > NY Times titled "the social media warriors of parkland." For some > > reason > > > it > > > > is not visible on the digital version.... yet. Maybe someone out > there > > in > > > > xmca-land can find it for us? I will check again > > > > in the morning to see if it appears. > > > > It seems especially relevant to Monica and Fernando's article, > and > > > to > > > > David's comment that " it is very hard for me to pinpoint any > > > > actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made > > > possible by > > > > Facebook." The voices and forms of speaking used by the students was > > > not, > > > > so far as I could tell, the source of data. There are no quotations > of > > > any > > > > students speaking differently. I assumed that this article was about > > > > collective action. > > > > Monica and Fernando - I confess I had difficulty following parts of > the > > > > article, perhaps because I am a very seldom user of Facebook. In > > > > particular, I had difficulty understanding Figure 3. Were the people > > who > > > > started M1 also those who started M2-M3? ( " Once students achieved > the > > > > object of the activity?in the first case, to avoid the closure of the > > > > schools?they focused the protests on another object"). > > > > > > > > Did the M4 people get the idea from M1 through a FB connection form > M1? > > > Did > > > > you get any sense of what distinguished pages that got a few hundred > > > versus > > > > 10,000 reactions? > > > > > > > > Harshad - Did you think the article failed to consider social issues? > > > There > > > > is no information about you on the xmca membership > > > > page, so it is difficult to know from what part of the world you are > > > > writing. Unless I miss my guess, some people will wonder at your > > > > use of the word "man" where the local practice might put "humankind" > or > > > > some other gender inclusive term. > > > > > > > > David - Daylight saving time tonight so I find myself "working late." > > It > > > > got me to wondering how many people live in Seoul. A lot, it turns > out. > > > > About 9-10 million. That got me to wondering about how much faster > all > > > > those people would be getting around on horses with all the horse > plops > > > to > > > > clamber over. And all that hay to haul into town for the morning rush > > > > hour. :-) > > > > > > > > mike > > > > > > > > On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Glassman, Michael < > > glassman.13@osu.edu> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> Hi David, > > > >> > > > >> I'm sure those meddling kids won't come back on your lawn any time > > soon. > > > >> > > > >> But really, the article did not say Facebook is a new type of > > > technology. > > > >> I believe they said that it's a form of human-technology interaction > > and > > > >> suggested perhaps social media was a new type of human-technology > > > >> interaction. I don't agree with this phrasing. I tend to think of > > > Facebook > > > >> more as an application of Internet technology - but either way > > Facebook > > > is > > > >> just a form or an application. Is the internetworking of computer, > > radio > > > >> and satellite communication an enormous step forward in how humans > > > >> communicate. I think so - it's really extraordinary on a number of > > > levels > > > >> but that's really not the conversation for this article. > > > >> > > > >> I do think the authors have done an analysis that is interesting and > > > >> possibly important, especially when one considers what is currently > > > going > > > >> on down in Parkland (some might be happy to know that, at least from > > > what I > > > >> have read, Facebook isn't dominant or even that important for these > > > >> students. Adults have been using it more for larger organizational > > > events > > > >> like the March 14 walkout and the March 24 march). I have read some > > > >> articles on organizing on online forums (and actually wrote a not > very > > > good > > > >> one a few years back). Most of them are communications based an > don't > > > have > > > >> strong theoretical underpinning which is why I think this article > > might > > > be > > > >> an important step forward. > > > >> > > > >> I think the idea of using third generation activity theory might be > a > > > good > > > >> idea for this type of analysis. I myself have seen ties between the > > > >> trialogical approach being developed by Hakkareinan and Paavola and > > > what is > > > >> going on down in Parkland. The students are creating their own > > projects > > > and > > > >> then getting the larger community to buy in to and support what they > > are > > > >> doing which is in turn changing the quality of their activities. I > > have > > > my > > > >> own ideas on why this is suddenly happening and direct communication > > > >> technologies like Twitter and texting (which seem primary vehicles) > > are > > > >> only part of it. > > > >> > > > >> Anyway, this particular article I think is really timely and should > > give > > > >> us a lot to think about. > > > >> > > > >> Michael > > > >> > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > > >> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg > > > >> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2018 6:03 PM > > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian > > > schools > > > >> > > > >> So in the fifteenth century, Gutenberg exapted extant technology > > already > > > >> widely available in China and published a single text using moveable > > > type > > > >> which started a profound intellectual, cultural, and social > revolution > > > >> whose effects we still feel today: the rise of Protestantism, the > > > >> Counter-Reformation in, among other places, Brazil, the Wars of > > > Religion in > > > >> France, the vicissitudes of a multii-confessional (political) State > > and > > > >> ultimately those of a multi-confessional (psychological) state, In > the > > > >> twentieth century, Ford similarly exapted extant technology, this > time > > > >> nearly two millenia later than China, and mass-produced automobiles > > > using > > > >> Taylorism, forcing everybody to buy an identical product with > > > >> interchangeable parts made by factories with interchangeable > workers. > > > >> The automobile "revolution" did not even give us new roads, and in > > Seoul > > > >> today traffic moves notably slower than it would on horseback. > > Clearly, > > > >> there are some forms of technology that are actually semiogenic--and > > > others > > > >> which merely circulate capital at a faster rate and actually slow > the > > > >> movement of people and new ideas. > > > >> > > > >> So my question is very simple. How do we know that "Facebook" (which > > as > > > >> the name implies was originally designed to help Harvard freshmen > > decide > > > >> which classmates were sufficiently hot to "like") is really one of > the > > > >> former technologies?.There are very clear signs , beyond the obvious > > > ones > > > >> surrounding the American origins, that it belongs to the latter > > > category, > > > >> and not a few of them appear in this very article. First of all, the > > > >> authors are honest enough to associate Facebook with reactionary, > > > >> xenophobic, populist movements like the clowns who run the "Five > > Stars" > > > >> movement in Italy. Second, on the very first page, the authors try > but > > > do > > > >> not really seem to be able to distinguish between the "post first > and > > > >> organize later" technologies of Occupy Wall Street and the use of > > social > > > >> media by the four movements in the article (including one actually > > > called > > > >> "Occupy Everything"). And thirdly, it is very hard for me to > pinpoint > > > any > > > >> actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made > > > possible > > > >> by Facebook. If anything, Facebook seems to narrow semiogenic power > > to a > > > >> single consumer/computer menu. Ford said, you can get a Model A in > any > > > >> color you like so long as it's black. Facebook tells us the same > > thing, > > > but > > > >> makes the verb "like" intransitive. > > > >> > > > >> David Kellogg > > > >> Sangmyung University > > > >> > > > >> Recent Article in *Early Years* > > > >> > > > >> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and > > the > > > >> child?s first interrogatives > > >> doi/full/10.1080/09575146.2018.1431874> > > > >> > > > >> Free e-print available at: > > > >> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 7:30 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > > > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > > > >> wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> Dear xmca'ers, > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> it is (bit over) due time for introducing the article for > discussion > > > >>> from MCA's 2018 Issue 1, before Issue 2 comes upon us soon. > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> The selected article, by Monica Ferreira Lemos and Fernando Rezende > > da > > > >>> Cunha J?nior, is about two topics that were thematised in the last > > > >>> ISCAR congress and that ought to be of much relevance to current > and > > > >>> future CHAT-related research: Social media and social movements. In > > > >>> particular, the article examines how students use social media for > > the > > > >>> organization and development of 4 social movements in Brazil. > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> The article is attached and is Free access during the discussion > > > period. > > > >>> It can be accessed free in the following link: > > > >>> > > > >>> https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2017.1379823 > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> The authors have kindly agreed to participate in the discussion and > > > >>> they will be introducing themselves soon. I hope you will find the > > > >>> article interesting and please don't be shy to share anything you > > > >>> might have learned reading it, anything you might wonder about it > or > > > >>> that you would like see discussed. Having authors engage in > dialogue > > > >>> is a great opportunity that this community offers and that makes > > sense > > > >>> the most when many of you participate. Good reading! > > > >>> > > > >>> ? > > > >>> > > > >>> Alfredo Jornet > > > >>> > > > >>> New article in *Design Studies* "Imagning Design: Transitive and > > > >>> intransitive dimensions" > > > >>> Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/ > a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > > > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > > Assistant Professor > > Department of Anthropology > > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > > Brigham Young University > > Provo, UT 84602 > > WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu > > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > > > From mcole@ucsd.edu Mon Mar 12 16:39:45 2018 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2018 16:39:45 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools In-Reply-To: References: <1520721034406.59651@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF245E@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <0bdd10ce-7411-8083-533f-44fcfb50e928@marxists.org> <1520858083490.87795@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: I think you question is really interesting, David. It is my personal belief that the project of coordinating, if not entirely reconciling, Vygotsky and Halliday is an important theoretical goal. And I find the historical and arts examples helpful to think with. But since that is not what the paper is about, and we are discussing the paper, I urge that we come back to it after people get to respond to the paper under discussion. If you restart us, I promise a personal example I think is what you are talking about, but it does not break into two sentences, one SVO -- OV contrast. Its from a time when I was in charge of some visiting Americans and tried to talk our way into a crowded restaurant in Moscow, so a Russian example. At the moment I am waiting to see what Monica and Fernando can make out of the comments so far. And to hear from others who have thoughts on the matter. It seems to me that everyone on the list is considering the problem of the "effect of social media use on human development. Certainly I do! :-) mike On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 2:49 PM, David Kellogg wrote: > We know in retrospect that some shifts in semiohistory matter (e.g. > writing, printing, grammatical metaphor) and others lead to dead ends > (carrier pigeons, eight track tapes, epistolary novels). Is this simply a > case of our own anatomy is the key to the anatomy of the ape, or is > there some way to tell which technologies, exapted for purposes which were > quite alien to the ones their inventors had in mind, will offer differences > that can make a difference? I think that Mike and Greg and others are quite > right to say that this is not the question that the authors of the article > ask. But it's my question, and it's a real question. > > In a paper on "Language Evolving", Halliday gives a very > fast-forward "semiohistory" in three Fs--forest, farm, and factory. He > points out that forest lore tends to be quite down-to-earth (an old > girlfriend of mine who spent time in the forests of Borneo with the Penan > once sent me a dart tipped with curare as a birthday present, but pointed > out the Penan themselves don't use them as tokens of anything, but only as > tools to change the environment). Farm lore is cyclical, discursive, > and often written for the first time. Factory lore has many of the > qualities we find in printing presses and assembly lines: interchangeable > parts, syntagmatic variation combined with paradigmatic choices, and > complex unity between the individual part and the whole. Halliday wonders > if we are on the threshold of a fourth F, namely fantasy, which corresponds > to work in offices. > > Historically, the verb "like" meant "please"; that's why Iago says "That > likes me not" when he sees Cassio doing something which he thinks will > displease Othello. In Korean, it still has this meaning: we don't say "I > like it"; rather "This pleases". The relationship is what Halliday calls > "ergative": that is, the relationship we find when people interact not with > other people but with things. > > Mike opened the door. The door opened. > Mike boiled the kettle. The kettle boiled. > Mike drove the car. The car drove. > Mike booted up the computer, etc. > > The "Song of the Summer" here in Korea was called "Likey Likey Likey" and > it is almost entirely written around the highly ergative premise of "me > likey?" (i.e. "Do I please you?", but to put it that way is precisely to > miss the elision of the liking subject). > > https://colorcodedlyrics.com/2017/10/twice-likey > > Halliday says that English is currently in transition, from a "heroic" SVO > style, where actors perform activities on and for objects, to a much more > ergative OV style, where stuff just happens and the agent is unspoken. > Since the AT in CHAT rather presupposes the SVO style, it seems to me > discussion-worthy. So my question--and it is not the question asked in the > article, but a real question nevertheless--is to whether this constitutes > an affordance for qualitative progress in meaning-making or whether in the > long run it is simply more of the same. > > > > David Kellogg > Sangmyung University > > Recent Article in *Early Years* > > The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and the > child?s first interrogatives > > > Free e-print available at: > https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full > > > On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 4:02 AM, mike cole wrote: > > > Monica, Fernando et al..... > > > > The US news is full of stories about a national student walkout over > guns & > > schools. Here in San Diego, where mr trump is expected tomorrow, local > > school principals are supporting students to walk out. > > > > Question: Here in the US a lot of the communicative action appears to be > on > > twitter, instagram, etc.... How would one study > > those more emphemeral media? > > > > For example> > > https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/schools-brace-for- > > massive-student-walkouts-over-gun-violence > > . > > > > Thanks Andy for finding the story. I had the mis-impression that > headlines > > in the print edition were repeated > > in the online version. (see meme on grandpa and computer). > > > > I still don't understand Figure 3 properly to be able to link it to > > questions of transformative agency. > > > > mike > > > > On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 11:49 AM, Greg Thompson < > greg.a.thompson@gmail.com > > > > > wrote: > > > > > David, > > > FB does seem to be something new as a medium of communication in as > much > > as > > > it operates on an asynchronic timescale that previously did not exist > > > (i.e., conversations that happen at the timescale of a few hours, > > sometimes > > > days, and very very seldom, weeks). Along with that is the cheapness of > > the > > > medium of communication (vs. say, a telegraph or a letter - both of > which > > > are forms of asynchronous communication, more the letter than the > > > telegraph). > > > Those are two things that seem new to me about the medium (although > > > list-serves, those technological dinosaurs, seem to be able to do both > of > > > these things and yet FB is not the same thing as a list serve. What > might > > > account for that difference?). > > > > > > But that question seems a little beside the point of this article. The > > > question here seems to be: what did FB do in *this case*? > > > > > > Here are some suggestions from the authors of what FB did for the Four > > > Movements: > > > > > > "by using Facebook pages as a communicative tool, students could > > coordinate > > > demonstrations occurring at the same time in different cities, which > was > > > possible due to the expansion in the number of Facebook pages." (p. 61) > > > > > > and, less thrillingly (for those who care about "free speech" and > "public > > > discussion", but perhaps censoring is an important part of any social > > > movement? David, maybe this was part of your point?): > > > "From the posts analysed in this study, we observed that page > organizers > > > authorized only posts that supported the Four Movements, blocking or > > > deleting posts that were against them." > > > > > > and: > > > "Having a motive and motivation, as suggested by Rantavuori and > > colleagues > > > (2016), the use of Facebook pages as a form of human?technology > > interaction > > > strengthened the collaborative aspect of the activities and enabled new > > > ways of envisioning the future, which potentializes collaborative > > agency." > > > > > > and most simply, in conclusion: > > > "In this study, we discussed how students used social media, more > > > specifically Facebook pages, as a > > > mediational communicative tool for organizing, developing, and > expanding > > > the Four Movements. > > > The expansive learning process demonstrated by the students and the > > > transformation of the object of > > > the protest was enhanced by using these networks as a form of > > > human?technology interaction." > > > > > > and one that I didn't quite understand: > > > "In contrast to previous research on human?technology interaction > > (Bardram > > > & Doryab, 2011; Cunha > > > Jr., Van Oers, & Kontopodis, 2016), the instability faced by the Four > > > Movements led to the adequacy > > > of the instrument, and to the transformation of the object." (p. 63). > > > > > > Others' thoughts? > > > -greg > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 6:34 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Thanks for finding and sharing the link, Andy, and thanks Michael and > > > Mike > > > > for bringing the absolutely relevant connection to Parklands. > > > > > > > > There was not so long ago a discussion here as well as in a couple of > > > > articles in MCA about how crises leading to development most often > > result > > > > from quantitative increments that lead to qualitative leaps such that > > new > > > > forms of organization emerge from previous ones. So, David, I don't > see > > > why > > > > increments in the pace of circulation (e.g., of information) would > not > > be > > > > expected to bring with them changes in the organisation of the whole > > > > economy system. I would not say that social media is just bringing a > > lot > > > > more of the same, just as I would not a priori reject the possibility > > > that > > > > bringing a lot more of the same might not end up bringing new > > qualitative > > > > forms of communicating. The observation that "like" is intransitive > in > > > > Facebook is interesting; but to me it needs to be put in its larger > > > context > > > > of use. And so, are we analysing Facebook as a grammar closed up in > > > itself, > > > > or as one more chain in a larger grammar of possible cooperation? > > > > > > > > I am myself concerned that Social Media like Facebook may be > amplifying > > > > dichotomical thinking beyond the innocuous and often way-to-verbose > > > essays > > > > we academics enjoy entertaining with much more complex verbal forms > > than > > > > Facebook's intransitive "likes", only that the confrontations now > seem > > to > > > > be moving to family's dinner tables, quarrels among protesters in > > public > > > > squares, or previously unheard of incarcerations for publishing > tweets > > > and > > > > rap songs that critique the crown in a supposedly modern democracy > like > > > > Spain (e.g.: http://cadenaser.com/ser/2018/ > > 02/20/tribunales/1519135083_ > > > > 106543.html). But the article here discussed also shows that there > are > > > > forms of organization that these technologies are affording that may > > > bring > > > > more positive changes, like the case again in Spain of March 8th > > women's > > > > strike, the extent of which no politician or journalist had > anticipated > > > and > > > > which led the government to quickly adopt a much more equity-friendly > > > > discourse than even the evening before (https://www.youtube.com/ > > > > watch?v=4_11iIELdfc). So, no, probably that one strike, or that one > > > > social media that may have made it possible, won't change the system. > > But > > > > they seem to incrementally add to something, don't they? > > > > > > > > Alfredo Jornet > > > > ________________________________ > > > > New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and > > > > intransitive dimensions" > > > > Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > > > > > > > > ________________________________________ > > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu edu > > > > > > > on behalf of Andy Blunden > > > > Sent: 12 March 2018 06:39 > > > > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian > > > schools > > > > > > > > That headline does not exist, but is it this: > > > > > > > > https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/07/us/parkland-students- > > > social-media.html > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > Andy Blunden > > > > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > > > > On 12/03/2018 4:02 PM, mike cole wrote: > > > > > Michael - I have been trying to find a digital copy of a story in > > > today's > > > > > NY Times titled "the social media warriors of parkland." For some > > > reason > > > > it > > > > > is not visible on the digital version.... yet. Maybe someone out > > there > > > in > > > > > xmca-land can find it for us? I will check again > > > > > in the morning to see if it appears. > > > > > It seems especially relevant to Monica and Fernando's article, > > and > > > > to > > > > > David's comment that " it is very hard for me to pinpoint any > > > > > actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made > > > > possible by > > > > > Facebook." The voices and forms of speaking used by the students > was > > > > not, > > > > > so far as I could tell, the source of data. There are no quotations > > of > > > > any > > > > > students speaking differently. I assumed that this article was > about > > > > > collective action. > > > > > Monica and Fernando - I confess I had difficulty following parts of > > the > > > > > article, perhaps because I am a very seldom user of Facebook. In > > > > > particular, I had difficulty understanding Figure 3. Were the > people > > > who > > > > > started M1 also those who started M2-M3? ( " Once students achieved > > the > > > > > object of the activity?in the first case, to avoid the closure of > the > > > > > schools?they focused the protests on another object"). > > > > > > > > > > Did the M4 people get the idea from M1 through a FB connection form > > M1? > > > > Did > > > > > you get any sense of what distinguished pages that got a few > hundred > > > > versus > > > > > 10,000 reactions? > > > > > > > > > > Harshad - Did you think the article failed to consider social > issues? > > > > There > > > > > is no information about you on the xmca membership > > > > > page, so it is difficult to know from what part of the world you > are > > > > > writing. Unless I miss my guess, some people will wonder at your > > > > > use of the word "man" where the local practice might put > "humankind" > > or > > > > > some other gender inclusive term. > > > > > > > > > > David - Daylight saving time tonight so I find myself "working > late." > > > It > > > > > got me to wondering how many people live in Seoul. A lot, it turns > > out. > > > > > About 9-10 million. That got me to wondering about how much faster > > all > > > > > those people would be getting around on horses with all the horse > > plops > > > > to > > > > > clamber over. And all that hay to haul into town for the morning > rush > > > > > hour. :-) > > > > > > > > > > mike > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Glassman, Michael < > > > glassman.13@osu.edu> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> Hi David, > > > > >> > > > > >> I'm sure those meddling kids won't come back on your lawn any time > > > soon. > > > > >> > > > > >> But really, the article did not say Facebook is a new type of > > > > technology. > > > > >> I believe they said that it's a form of human-technology > interaction > > > and > > > > >> suggested perhaps social media was a new type of human-technology > > > > >> interaction. I don't agree with this phrasing. I tend to think of > > > > Facebook > > > > >> more as an application of Internet technology - but either way > > > Facebook > > > > is > > > > >> just a form or an application. Is the internetworking of computer, > > > radio > > > > >> and satellite communication an enormous step forward in how humans > > > > >> communicate. I think so - it's really extraordinary on a number > of > > > > levels > > > > >> but that's really not the conversation for this article. > > > > >> > > > > >> I do think the authors have done an analysis that is interesting > and > > > > >> possibly important, especially when one considers what is > currently > > > > going > > > > >> on down in Parkland (some might be happy to know that, at least > from > > > > what I > > > > >> have read, Facebook isn't dominant or even that important for > these > > > > >> students. Adults have been using it more for larger organizational > > > > events > > > > >> like the March 14 walkout and the March 24 march). I have read > some > > > > >> articles on organizing on online forums (and actually wrote a not > > very > > > > good > > > > >> one a few years back). Most of them are communications based an > > don't > > > > have > > > > >> strong theoretical underpinning which is why I think this article > > > might > > > > be > > > > >> an important step forward. > > > > >> > > > > >> I think the idea of using third generation activity theory might > be > > a > > > > good > > > > >> idea for this type of analysis. I myself have seen ties between > the > > > > >> trialogical approach being developed by Hakkareinan and Paavola > and > > > > what is > > > > >> going on down in Parkland. The students are creating their own > > > projects > > > > and > > > > >> then getting the larger community to buy in to and support what > they > > > are > > > > >> doing which is in turn changing the quality of their activities. I > > > have > > > > my > > > > >> own ideas on why this is suddenly happening and direct > communication > > > > >> technologies like Twitter and texting (which seem primary > vehicles) > > > are > > > > >> only part of it. > > > > >> > > > > >> Anyway, this particular article I think is really timely and > should > > > give > > > > >> us a lot to think about. > > > > >> > > > > >> Michael > > > > >> > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > > > >> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg > > > > >> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2018 6:03 PM > > > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in > Brazilian > > > > schools > > > > >> > > > > >> So in the fifteenth century, Gutenberg exapted extant technology > > > already > > > > >> widely available in China and published a single text using > moveable > > > > type > > > > >> which started a profound intellectual, cultural, and social > > revolution > > > > >> whose effects we still feel today: the rise of Protestantism, the > > > > >> Counter-Reformation in, among other places, Brazil, the Wars of > > > > Religion in > > > > >> France, the vicissitudes of a multii-confessional (political) > State > > > and > > > > >> ultimately those of a multi-confessional (psychological) state, In > > the > > > > >> twentieth century, Ford similarly exapted extant technology, this > > time > > > > >> nearly two millenia later than China, and mass-produced > automobiles > > > > using > > > > >> Taylorism, forcing everybody to buy an identical product with > > > > >> interchangeable parts made by factories with interchangeable > > workers. > > > > >> The automobile "revolution" did not even give us new roads, and in > > > Seoul > > > > >> today traffic moves notably slower than it would on horseback. > > > Clearly, > > > > >> there are some forms of technology that are actually > semiogenic--and > > > > others > > > > >> which merely circulate capital at a faster rate and actually slow > > the > > > > >> movement of people and new ideas. > > > > >> > > > > >> So my question is very simple. How do we know that "Facebook" > (which > > > as > > > > >> the name implies was originally designed to help Harvard freshmen > > > decide > > > > >> which classmates were sufficiently hot to "like") is really one of > > the > > > > >> former technologies?.There are very clear signs , beyond the > obvious > > > > ones > > > > >> surrounding the American origins, that it belongs to the latter > > > > category, > > > > >> and not a few of them appear in this very article. First of all, > the > > > > >> authors are honest enough to associate Facebook with reactionary, > > > > >> xenophobic, populist movements like the clowns who run the "Five > > > Stars" > > > > >> movement in Italy. Second, on the very first page, the authors try > > but > > > > do > > > > >> not really seem to be able to distinguish between the "post first > > and > > > > >> organize later" technologies of Occupy Wall Street and the use of > > > social > > > > >> media by the four movements in the article (including one actually > > > > called > > > > >> "Occupy Everything"). And thirdly, it is very hard for me to > > pinpoint > > > > any > > > > >> actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made > > > > possible > > > > >> by Facebook. If anything, Facebook seems to narrow semiogenic > power > > > to a > > > > >> single consumer/computer menu. Ford said, you can get a Model A in > > any > > > > >> color you like so long as it's black. Facebook tells us the same > > > thing, > > > > but > > > > >> makes the verb "like" intransitive. > > > > >> > > > > >> David Kellogg > > > > >> Sangmyung University > > > > >> > > > > >> Recent Article in *Early Years* > > > > >> > > > > >> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, > and > > > the > > > > >> child?s first interrogatives > > > >> doi/full/10.1080/09575146.2018.1431874> > > > > >> > > > > >> Free e-print available at: > > > > >> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 7:30 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > > > > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > > > > >> wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >>> Dear xmca'ers, > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> it is (bit over) due time for introducing the article for > > discussion > > > > >>> from MCA's 2018 Issue 1, before Issue 2 comes upon us soon. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> The selected article, by Monica Ferreira Lemos and Fernando > Rezende > > > da > > > > >>> Cunha J?nior, is about two topics that were thematised in the > last > > > > >>> ISCAR congress and that ought to be of much relevance to current > > and > > > > >>> future CHAT-related research: Social media and social movements. > In > > > > >>> particular, the article examines how students use social media > for > > > the > > > > >>> organization and development of 4 social movements in Brazil. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> The article is attached and is Free access during the discussion > > > > period. > > > > >>> It can be accessed free in the following link: > > > > >>> > > > > >>> https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039. > 2017.1379823 > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> The authors have kindly agreed to participate in the discussion > and > > > > >>> they will be introducing themselves soon. I hope you will find > the > > > > >>> article interesting and please don't be shy to share anything you > > > > >>> might have learned reading it, anything you might wonder about it > > or > > > > >>> that you would like see discussed. Having authors engage in > > dialogue > > > > >>> is a great opportunity that this community offers and that makes > > > sense > > > > >>> the most when many of you participate. Good reading! > > > > >>> > > > > >>> ? > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Alfredo Jornet > > > > >>> > > > > >>> New article in *Design Studies* "Imagning Design: Transitive and > > > > >>> intransitive dimensions" > > > > >>> Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/ > > a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > > > > >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > > > Assistant Professor > > > Department of Anthropology > > > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > > > Brigham Young University > > > Provo, UT 84602 > > > WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu > > > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > > > > > > From mcole@ucsd.edu Mon Mar 12 17:02:42 2018 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2018 17:02:42 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools In-Reply-To: <1520858083490.87795@iped.uio.no> References: <1520721034406.59651@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF245E@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <0bdd10ce-7411-8083-533f-44fcfb50e928@marxists.org> <1520858083490.87795@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: Alfredo et al I read this message before reading the prior one. You are making the point I was trying to make regarding discussion of the paper. In our everyday lives we are experiencing a change in the wind (to use a metaphor that Dylan made famous at another such time). HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS ARE DISRUPTING THINGS AS USUAL for the first time in my life. Call it 65 years. And we are academics and some of us are are paid to theorize such matters. To theorize the social organization of society was Hugh's description of the social sciences. In most American Universities, Psychology (cap P) is located in the social sciences. Do we approach the problem from "below" as psychologists? Do we approach it from "above" as sociologists and political scientists? Can you link the Leontiev who writes about the nature of human consciousness, psychologically speaking and conducts experiments in the laboratory that look for all the world like what goes on in my psychology department, AND as someone who can help understand the growth of social movements? This may also be a way to address and understanding of the overlap and variability in the ideas of Vygotsky and Friere. Monica and Fernando must be reeling from all the complicated English we are spewing. I look forward to the discussion. Still worrying about Figure 3! I know I need to be able to interpret it but I am doing a lousy job. mike On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 5:34 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > Thanks for finding and sharing the link, Andy, and thanks Michael and Mike > for bringing the absolutely relevant connection to Parklands. > > There was not so long ago a discussion here as well as in a couple of > articles in MCA about how crises leading to development most often result > from quantitative increments that lead to qualitative leaps such that new > forms of organization emerge from previous ones. So, David, I don't see why > increments in the pace of circulation (e.g., of information) would not be > expected to bring with them changes in the organisation of the whole > economy system. I would not say that social media is just bringing a lot > more of the same, just as I would not a priori reject the possibility that > bringing a lot more of the same might not end up bringing new qualitative > forms of communicating. The observation that "like" is intransitive in > Facebook is interesting; but to me it needs to be put in its larger context > of use. And so, are we analysing Facebook as a grammar closed up in itself, > or as one more chain in a larger grammar of possible cooperation? > > I am myself concerned that Social Media like Facebook may be amplifying > dichotomical thinking beyond the innocuous and often way-to-verbose essays > we academics enjoy entertaining with much more complex verbal forms than > Facebook's intransitive "likes", only that the confrontations now seem to > be moving to family's dinner tables, quarrels among protesters in public > squares, or previously unheard of incarcerations for publishing tweets and > rap songs that critique the crown in a supposedly modern democracy like > Spain (e.g.: http://cadenaser.com/ser/2018/02/20/tribunales/1519135083_ > 106543.html). But the article here discussed also shows that there are > forms of organization that these technologies are affording that may bring > more positive changes, like the case again in Spain of March 8th women's > strike, the extent of which no politician or journalist had anticipated and > which led the government to quickly adopt a much more equity-friendly > discourse than even the evening before (https://www.youtube.com/ > watch?v=4_11iIELdfc). So, no, probably that one strike, or that one > social media that may have made it possible, won't change the system. But > they seem to incrementally add to something, don't they? > > Alfredo Jornet > ________________________________ > New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and > intransitive dimensions" > Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > > ________________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Andy Blunden > Sent: 12 March 2018 06:39 > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools > > That headline does not exist, but is it this: > > https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/07/us/parkland-students-social-media.html > > Andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > On 12/03/2018 4:02 PM, mike cole wrote: > > Michael - I have been trying to find a digital copy of a story in today's > > NY Times titled "the social media warriors of parkland." For some reason > it > > is not visible on the digital version.... yet. Maybe someone out there in > > xmca-land can find it for us? I will check again > > in the morning to see if it appears. > > It seems especially relevant to Monica and Fernando's article, and > to > > David's comment that " it is very hard for me to pinpoint any > > actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made > possible by > > Facebook." The voices and forms of speaking used by the students was > not, > > so far as I could tell, the source of data. There are no quotations of > any > > students speaking differently. I assumed that this article was about > > collective action. > > Monica and Fernando - I confess I had difficulty following parts of the > > article, perhaps because I am a very seldom user of Facebook. In > > particular, I had difficulty understanding Figure 3. Were the people who > > started M1 also those who started M2-M3? ( " Once students achieved the > > object of the activity?in the first case, to avoid the closure of the > > schools?they focused the protests on another object"). > > > > Did the M4 people get the idea from M1 through a FB connection form M1? > Did > > you get any sense of what distinguished pages that got a few hundred > versus > > 10,000 reactions? > > > > Harshad - Did you think the article failed to consider social issues? > There > > is no information about you on the xmca membership > > page, so it is difficult to know from what part of the world you are > > writing. Unless I miss my guess, some people will wonder at your > > use of the word "man" where the local practice might put "humankind" or > > some other gender inclusive term. > > > > David - Daylight saving time tonight so I find myself "working late." It > > got me to wondering how many people live in Seoul. A lot, it turns out. > > About 9-10 million. That got me to wondering about how much faster all > > those people would be getting around on horses with all the horse plops > to > > clamber over. And all that hay to haul into town for the morning rush > > hour. :-) > > > > mike > > > > On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Glassman, Michael > > wrote: > > > >> Hi David, > >> > >> I'm sure those meddling kids won't come back on your lawn any time soon. > >> > >> But really, the article did not say Facebook is a new type of > technology. > >> I believe they said that it's a form of human-technology interaction and > >> suggested perhaps social media was a new type of human-technology > >> interaction. I don't agree with this phrasing. I tend to think of > Facebook > >> more as an application of Internet technology - but either way Facebook > is > >> just a form or an application. Is the internetworking of computer, radio > >> and satellite communication an enormous step forward in how humans > >> communicate. I think so - it's really extraordinary on a number of > levels > >> but that's really not the conversation for this article. > >> > >> I do think the authors have done an analysis that is interesting and > >> possibly important, especially when one considers what is currently > going > >> on down in Parkland (some might be happy to know that, at least from > what I > >> have read, Facebook isn't dominant or even that important for these > >> students. Adults have been using it more for larger organizational > events > >> like the March 14 walkout and the March 24 march). I have read some > >> articles on organizing on online forums (and actually wrote a not very > good > >> one a few years back). Most of them are communications based an don't > have > >> strong theoretical underpinning which is why I think this article might > be > >> an important step forward. > >> > >> I think the idea of using third generation activity theory might be a > good > >> idea for this type of analysis. I myself have seen ties between the > >> trialogical approach being developed by Hakkareinan and Paavola and > what is > >> going on down in Parkland. The students are creating their own projects > and > >> then getting the larger community to buy in to and support what they are > >> doing which is in turn changing the quality of their activities. I have > my > >> own ideas on why this is suddenly happening and direct communication > >> technologies like Twitter and texting (which seem primary vehicles) are > >> only part of it. > >> > >> Anyway, this particular article I think is really timely and should give > >> us a lot to think about. > >> > >> Michael > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > >> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg > >> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2018 6:03 PM > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian > schools > >> > >> So in the fifteenth century, Gutenberg exapted extant technology already > >> widely available in China and published a single text using moveable > type > >> which started a profound intellectual, cultural, and social revolution > >> whose effects we still feel today: the rise of Protestantism, the > >> Counter-Reformation in, among other places, Brazil, the Wars of > Religion in > >> France, the vicissitudes of a multii-confessional (political) State and > >> ultimately those of a multi-confessional (psychological) state, In the > >> twentieth century, Ford similarly exapted extant technology, this time > >> nearly two millenia later than China, and mass-produced automobiles > using > >> Taylorism, forcing everybody to buy an identical product with > >> interchangeable parts made by factories with interchangeable workers. > >> The automobile "revolution" did not even give us new roads, and in Seoul > >> today traffic moves notably slower than it would on horseback. Clearly, > >> there are some forms of technology that are actually semiogenic--and > others > >> which merely circulate capital at a faster rate and actually slow the > >> movement of people and new ideas. > >> > >> So my question is very simple. How do we know that "Facebook" (which as > >> the name implies was originally designed to help Harvard freshmen decide > >> which classmates were sufficiently hot to "like") is really one of the > >> former technologies?.There are very clear signs , beyond the obvious > ones > >> surrounding the American origins, that it belongs to the latter > category, > >> and not a few of them appear in this very article. First of all, the > >> authors are honest enough to associate Facebook with reactionary, > >> xenophobic, populist movements like the clowns who run the "Five Stars" > >> movement in Italy. Second, on the very first page, the authors try but > do > >> not really seem to be able to distinguish between the "post first and > >> organize later" technologies of Occupy Wall Street and the use of social > >> media by the four movements in the article (including one actually > called > >> "Occupy Everything"). And thirdly, it is very hard for me to pinpoint > any > >> actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made > possible > >> by Facebook. If anything, Facebook seems to narrow semiogenic power to a > >> single consumer/computer menu. Ford said, you can get a Model A in any > >> color you like so long as it's black. Facebook tells us the same thing, > but > >> makes the verb "like" intransitive. > >> > >> David Kellogg > >> Sangmyung University > >> > >> Recent Article in *Early Years* > >> > >> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and the > >> child?s first interrogatives >> doi/full/10.1080/09575146.2018.1431874> > >> > >> Free e-print available at: > >> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full > >> > >> > >> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 7:30 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Dear xmca'ers, > >>> > >>> > >>> it is (bit over) due time for introducing the article for discussion > >>> from MCA's 2018 Issue 1, before Issue 2 comes upon us soon. > >>> > >>> > >>> The selected article, by Monica Ferreira Lemos and Fernando Rezende da > >>> Cunha J?nior, is about two topics that were thematised in the last > >>> ISCAR congress and that ought to be of much relevance to current and > >>> future CHAT-related research: Social media and social movements. In > >>> particular, the article examines how students use social media for the > >>> organization and development of 4 social movements in Brazil. > >>> > >>> > >>> The article is attached and is Free access during the discussion > period. > >>> It can be accessed free in the following link: > >>> > >>> https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2017.1379823 > >>> > >>> > >>> The authors have kindly agreed to participate in the discussion and > >>> they will be introducing themselves soon. I hope you will find the > >>> article interesting and please don't be shy to share anything you > >>> might have learned reading it, anything you might wonder about it or > >>> that you would like see discussed. Having authors engage in dialogue > >>> is a great opportunity that this community offers and that makes sense > >>> the most when many of you participate. Good reading! > >>> > >>> ? > >>> > >>> Alfredo Jornet > >>> > >>> New article in *Design Studies* "Imagning Design: Transitive and > >>> intransitive dimensions" > >>> Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > >>> > >> > > From fernandorcjr@yahoo.com.br Tue Mar 13 12:02:51 2018 From: fernandorcjr@yahoo.com.br (Fernando Cunha) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2018 19:02:51 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools In-Reply-To: References: <1520721034406.59651@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF245E@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <0bdd10ce-7411-8083-533f-44fcfb50e928@marxists.org> <1520858083490.87795@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: <2017557051.756650.1520967771201@mail.yahoo.com> Dear all, I really appreciate the discussion so far, and I liked the way some of you used some metaphors. It was far from our intention to reinvent the wheel or to use flint stones to light fire. What I think it is important is that there is no "if" in human history, and we are where we are because we transform the places we live, as well as the tools we use. We can for sure ride horses in the cities, but the horses would sweat so much (considering the asphalt roads), that in a matter of hours they would die. Since life is forward, we tried to show in our article a small part of what the movements organized by the students were.It is important to highlight, that despite people that were not in favor of protests (including some students!), it was the first time in Brazilian history that students (who were not supposed to interfere) interfered in a political decision. And they did so not only by using Facebook. As we mention in our paper, Facebook is one aspect of the protests, and we considered it as a mediational communicative tool. As I mentioned before in this answer, we as human beings use tools that are available, reshape them, and sometimes use them for a purpose that is completely different from the original idea. I myself am a secondary education teacher, and I am also a researcher because I am a secondary education teacher. We may have different points of view when you research something as an outsider, and when you participate (not as an ethnographer), but as a subject of the group. In my humble opinion, we are still trying to conceptualize (and stabilize) things that move faster than we can handle as scientists, or to compare contexts that cannot be compared. ? I am looking forward to your reactions. Best regards, __________________________Fernando R. Cunha J?nior, PhD. http://fernandorcjr.wordpress.com Em segunda-feira, 12 de mar?o de 2018 21:05:34 BRT, mike cole escreveu: Alfredo et al I read this message before reading the prior one. You are making the point I was trying to make regarding discussion of the paper. In our everyday lives we are experiencing a change in the wind (to use a metaphor that Dylan made famous at another such time). HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS ARE DISRUPTING THINGS AS USUAL for the first time in my life. Call it 65 years. And we are academics and some of us are are paid to theorize such matters. To theorize the social organization of society was Hugh's description of the social sciences. In most American Universities, Psychology (cap P) is located in the social sciences. Do we approach the problem from "below" as psychologists? Do we approach it from "above" as sociologists and political scientists? Can you link the Leontiev who writes about the nature of human consciousness, psychologically speaking and conducts experiments in the laboratory that look for all the world like what goes on in my psychology department, AND as someone who can help understand the growth of social movements? This may also be a way to address and understanding of the overlap and variability in the ideas of Vygotsky and Friere. Monica and Fernando must be reeling from all the complicated English we are spewing. I look forward to the discussion. Still worrying about Figure 3! I know I need to be able to interpret it but I am doing a lousy job. mike On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 5:34 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > Thanks for finding and sharing the link, Andy, and thanks Michael and Mike > for bringing the absolutely relevant connection to Parklands. > > There was not so long ago a discussion here as well as in a couple of > articles in MCA about how crises leading to development most often result > from quantitative increments that lead to qualitative leaps such that new > forms of organization emerge from previous ones. So, David, I don't see why > increments in the pace of circulation (e.g., of information) would not be > expected to bring with them changes in the organisation of the whole > economy system. I would not say that social media is just bringing a lot > more of the same, just as I would not a priori reject the possibility that > bringing a lot more of the same might not end up bringing new qualitative > forms of communicating. The observation that "like" is intransitive in > Facebook is interesting; but to me it needs to be put in its larger context > of use. And so, are we analysing Facebook as a grammar closed up in itself, > or as one more chain in a larger grammar of possible cooperation? > > I am myself concerned that Social Media like Facebook may be amplifying > dichotomical thinking beyond the innocuous and often way-to-verbose essays > we academics enjoy entertaining with much more complex verbal forms than > Facebook's intransitive "likes", only that the confrontations now seem to > be moving to family's dinner tables, quarrels among protesters in public > squares, or previously unheard of incarcerations for publishing tweets and > rap songs that critique the crown in a supposedly modern democracy like > Spain (e.g.: http://cadenaser.com/ser/2018/02/20/tribunales/1519135083_ > 106543.html). But the article here discussed also shows that there are > forms of organization that these technologies are affording that may bring > more positive changes, like the case again in Spain of March 8th women's > strike, the extent of which no politician or journalist had anticipated and > which led the government to quickly adopt a much more equity-friendly > discourse than even the evening before (https://www.youtube.com/ > watch?v=4_11iIELdfc). So, no, probably that one strike, or that one > social media that may have made it possible, won't change the system. But > they seem to incrementally add to something, don't they? > > Alfredo Jornet > ________________________________ > New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and > intransitive dimensions" > Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > > ________________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Andy Blunden > Sent: 12 March 2018 06:39 > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools > > That headline does not exist, but is it this: > > https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/07/us/parkland-students-social-media.html > > Andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > On 12/03/2018 4:02 PM, mike cole wrote: > > Michael - I have been trying to find a digital copy of a story in today's > > NY Times titled "the social media warriors of parkland." For some reason > it > > is not visible on the digital version.... yet. Maybe someone out there in > > xmca-land can find it for us? I will check again > > in the morning to see if it appears. > >? ? ? It seems especially relevant to Monica and Fernando's article, and > to > > David's comment that "? it is very hard for me to pinpoint any > > actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made > possible by > > Facebook."? The voices and forms of speaking used by the students was > not, > > so far as I could tell, the source of data. There are no quotations of > any > > students speaking differently. I assumed that this article was about > > collective action. > > Monica and Fernando - I confess I had difficulty following parts of the > > article, perhaps because I am a very seldom user of Facebook. In > > particular, I had difficulty understanding Figure 3.? Were the people who > > started M1 also those who started M2-M3? ( " Once students achieved the > > object of the activity?in the first case, to avoid the closure of the > > schools?they focused the protests on another object"). > > > > Did the M4 people get the idea from M1 through a FB connection form M1? > Did > > you get any sense of what distinguished pages that got a few hundred > versus > > 10,000 reactions? > > > > Harshad - Did you think the article failed to consider social issues? > There > > is no information about you on the xmca membership > > page, so it is difficult to know from what part of the world you are > > writing. Unless I miss my guess, some people will wonder at your > > use of the word "man" where the local practice might put "humankind" or > > some other gender inclusive term. > > > > David - Daylight saving time tonight so I find myself "working late."? It > > got me to wondering how many people live in Seoul. A lot, it turns out. > > About 9-10 million. That got me to wondering about how much faster all > > those people would be getting around on horses with all the horse plops > to > > clamber over. And all that hay to haul into town for the morning rush > > hour.? :-) > > > > mike > > > > On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Glassman, Michael > > wrote: > > > >> Hi David, > >> > >> I'm sure those meddling kids won't come back on your lawn any time soon. > >> > >> But really, the article did not say Facebook is a new type of > technology. > >> I believe they said that it's a form of human-technology interaction and > >> suggested perhaps social media was a new type of human-technology > >> interaction.? I don't agree with this phrasing. I tend to think of > Facebook > >> more as an application of Internet technology - but either way Facebook > is > >> just a form or an application. Is the internetworking of computer, radio > >> and satellite communication an enormous step forward in how humans > >> communicate.? I think so - it's really extraordinary on a number of > levels > >> but that's really not the conversation for this article. > >> > >> I do think the authors have done an analysis that is interesting and > >> possibly important, especially when one considers what is currently > going > >> on down in Parkland (some might be happy to know that, at least from > what I > >> have read, Facebook isn't dominant or even that important for these > >> students. Adults have been using it more for larger organizational > events > >> like the March 14 walkout and the March 24 march).? I have read some > >> articles on organizing on online forums (and actually wrote a not very > good > >> one a few years back). Most of them are communications based an don't > have > >> strong theoretical underpinning which is why I think this article might > be > >> an important step forward. > >> > >> I think the idea of using third generation activity theory might be a > good > >> idea for this type of analysis. I myself have seen ties between the > >> trialogical approach being developed by Hakkareinan and Paavola and > what is > >> going on down in Parkland. The students are creating their own projects > and > >> then getting the larger community to buy in to and support what they are > >> doing which is in turn changing the quality of their activities. I have > my > >> own ideas on why this is suddenly happening and direct communication > >> technologies like Twitter and texting (which seem primary vehicles) are > >> only part of it. > >> > >> Anyway, this particular article I think is really timely and should give > >> us a lot to think about. > >> > >> Michael > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > >> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg > >> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2018 6:03 PM > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian > schools > >> > >> So in the fifteenth century, Gutenberg exapted extant technology already > >> widely available in China and published a single text using moveable > type > >> which started a profound intellectual, cultural, and social revolution > >> whose effects we still feel today: the rise of Protestantism, the > >> Counter-Reformation in, among other places, Brazil, the Wars of > Religion in > >> France, the vicissitudes of a multii-confessional (political) State and > >> ultimately those of a multi-confessional (psychological) state, In the > >> twentieth century, Ford similarly exapted extant technology, this time > >> nearly two millenia later than China, and mass-produced automobiles > using > >> Taylorism, forcing everybody to buy an identical product with > >> interchangeable parts made by factories with interchangeable workers. > >> The automobile "revolution" did not even give us new roads, and in Seoul > >> today traffic moves notably slower than it would on horseback. Clearly, > >> there are some forms of technology that are actually semiogenic--and > others > >> which merely circulate capital at a faster rate and actually slow the > >> movement of people and new ideas. > >> > >> So my question is very simple. How do we know that "Facebook" (which as > >> the name implies was originally designed to help Harvard freshmen decide > >> which classmates were sufficiently hot to "like") is really one of the > >> former technologies?.There are very clear signs , beyond the obvious > ones > >> surrounding the American origins, that it belongs to the latter > category, > >> and not a few of them appear in this very article. First of all, the > >> authors are honest enough to associate Facebook with reactionary, > >> xenophobic, populist movements like the clowns who run the "Five Stars" > >> movement in Italy. Second, on the very first page, the authors try but > do > >> not really seem to be able to distinguish between the "post first and > >> organize later" technologies of Occupy Wall Street and the use of social > >> media by the four movements in the article (including one actually > called > >> "Occupy Everything"). And thirdly, it is very hard for me to pinpoint > any > >> actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made > possible > >> by Facebook. If anything, Facebook seems to narrow semiogenic power to a > >> single consumer/computer menu. Ford said, you can get a Model A in any > >> color you like so long as it's black. Facebook tells us the same thing, > but > >> makes the verb "like" intransitive. > >> > >> David Kellogg > >> Sangmyung University > >> > >> Recent Article in *Early Years* > >> > >> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and the > >> child?s first interrogatives >> doi/full/10.1080/09575146.2018.1431874> > >> > >> Free e-print available at: > >> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full > >> > >> > >> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 7:30 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Dear xmca'ers, > >>> > >>> > >>> it is (bit over) due time for introducing the article for discussion > >>> from MCA's 2018 Issue 1, before Issue 2 comes upon us soon. > >>> > >>> > >>> The selected article, by Monica Ferreira Lemos and Fernando Rezende da > >>> Cunha J?nior, is about two topics that were thematised in the last > >>> ISCAR congress and that ought to be of much relevance to current and > >>> future CHAT-related research: Social media and social movements. In > >>> particular, the article examines how students use social media for the > >>> organization and development of 4 social movements in Brazil. > >>> > >>> > >>> The article is attached and is Free access during the discussion > period. > >>> It can be accessed free in the following link: > >>> > >>> https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2017.1379823 > >>> > >>> > >>> The authors have kindly agreed to participate in the discussion and > >>> they will be introducing themselves soon. I hope you? will find the > >>> article interesting and please don't be shy to share anything you > >>> might have learned reading it, anything you might wonder about it or > >>> that you would like see discussed. Having authors engage in dialogue > >>> is a great opportunity that this community offers and that makes sense > >>> the most when many of you participate. Good reading! > >>> > >>> ? > >>> > >>> Alfredo Jornet > >>> > >>> New article in *Design Studies* "Imagning Design: Transitive and > >>> intransitive dimensions" > >>> Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > >>> > >> > > From monica.lemos@gmail.com Tue Mar 13 13:50:22 2018 From: monica.lemos@gmail.com (Monica Lemos) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2018 20:50:22 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools In-Reply-To: References: <1520721034406.59651@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF245E@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <0bdd10ce-7411-8083-533f-44fcfb50e928@marxists.org> <1520858083490.87795@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: Dear all, First and foremost, I would like to express my gratitude for having the opportunity to discuss my paper with Fernando at Xcmca. I have been following the comments and I will little by little respond to the ones that focus on the paper, Fernando will jump in soon. @David- Shall we ride horses then? Shall we use flinststones to set fire? I don't mean to be rude, but it seems to me we can't deny changes and transformations that comes up all the time. FB is not the first and won't be the last, so we need to develop tools that enables our understanding, analysis and if possible, transformation of such phenomena. First, every social movement emerges from a type of reaction or a manifestation of resistance and they all have their downsides and setbacks. Secondly, in the case of the 4 movements there were three types of relation with FB: a) indeed post first, organize later; b) there are serious issues going on and they need to be broadcasted, such as the police locking students at the tro station; and c) organize first, post later. Finally I don't understand the instransitivity of "like" on FB, since you like or react in other ways to something that is posted. Thank you for the comments so far and I will be back later. Best regards, Monica Em Seg, 12 de mar de 2018 21:06, mike cole escreveu: > Alfredo et al > > I read this message before reading the prior one. You are making the point > I was trying to make regarding discussion of the paper. > In our everyday lives we are experiencing a change in the wind (to use a > metaphor that Dylan made famous at another such time). > HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS ARE DISRUPTING THINGS AS USUAL for the first time in > my life. Call it 65 years. > > And we are academics and some of us are are paid to theorize such matters. > To theorize the social organization of society was > Hugh's description of the social sciences. In most American Universities, > Psychology (cap P) is located in the social sciences. > Do we approach the problem from "below" as psychologists? Do we approach it > from "above" as sociologists and political scientists? > Can you link the Leontiev who writes about the nature of human > consciousness, psychologically speaking and conducts experiments in the > laboratory that look for all the world like what goes on in my psychology > department, AND as someone who can help understand the growth of social > movements? This may also be a way to address and understanding of the > overlap and variability in the ideas of Vygotsky and Friere. > > Monica and Fernando must be reeling from all the complicated English we are > spewing. I look forward to the discussion. > > Still worrying about Figure 3! I know I need to be able to interpret it but > I am doing a lousy job. > > mike > > > On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 5:34 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > wrote: > > > Thanks for finding and sharing the link, Andy, and thanks Michael and > Mike > > for bringing the absolutely relevant connection to Parklands. > > > > There was not so long ago a discussion here as well as in a couple of > > articles in MCA about how crises leading to development most often result > > from quantitative increments that lead to qualitative leaps such that new > > forms of organization emerge from previous ones. So, David, I don't see > why > > increments in the pace of circulation (e.g., of information) would not be > > expected to bring with them changes in the organisation of the whole > > economy system. I would not say that social media is just bringing a lot > > more of the same, just as I would not a priori reject the possibility > that > > bringing a lot more of the same might not end up bringing new qualitative > > forms of communicating. The observation that "like" is intransitive in > > Facebook is interesting; but to me it needs to be put in its larger > context > > of use. And so, are we analysing Facebook as a grammar closed up in > itself, > > or as one more chain in a larger grammar of possible cooperation? > > > > I am myself concerned that Social Media like Facebook may be amplifying > > dichotomical thinking beyond the innocuous and often way-to-verbose > essays > > we academics enjoy entertaining with much more complex verbal forms than > > Facebook's intransitive "likes", only that the confrontations now seem to > > be moving to family's dinner tables, quarrels among protesters in public > > squares, or previously unheard of incarcerations for publishing tweets > and > > rap songs that critique the crown in a supposedly modern democracy like > > Spain (e.g.: http://cadenaser.com/ser/2018/02/20/tribunales/1519135083_ > > 106543.html). But the article here discussed also shows that there are > > forms of organization that these technologies are affording that may > bring > > more positive changes, like the case again in Spain of March 8th women's > > strike, the extent of which no politician or journalist had anticipated > and > > which led the government to quickly adopt a much more equity-friendly > > discourse than even the evening before (https://www.youtube.com/ > > watch?v=4_11iIELdfc). So, no, probably that one strike, or that one > > social media that may have made it possible, won't change the system. But > > they seem to incrementally add to something, don't they? > > > > Alfredo Jornet > > ________________________________ > > New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and > > intransitive dimensions" > > Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > > > > ________________________________________ > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > on behalf of Andy Blunden > > Sent: 12 March 2018 06:39 > > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian > schools > > > > That headline does not exist, but is it this: > > > > > https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/07/us/parkland-students-social-media.html > > > > Andy > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Andy Blunden > > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > > On 12/03/2018 4:02 PM, mike cole wrote: > > > Michael - I have been trying to find a digital copy of a story in > today's > > > NY Times titled "the social media warriors of parkland." For some > reason > > it > > > is not visible on the digital version.... yet. Maybe someone out there > in > > > xmca-land can find it for us? I will check again > > > in the morning to see if it appears. > > > It seems especially relevant to Monica and Fernando's article, and > > to > > > David's comment that " it is very hard for me to pinpoint any > > > actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made > > possible by > > > Facebook." The voices and forms of speaking used by the students was > > not, > > > so far as I could tell, the source of data. There are no quotations of > > any > > > students speaking differently. I assumed that this article was about > > > collective action. > > > Monica and Fernando - I confess I had difficulty following parts of the > > > article, perhaps because I am a very seldom user of Facebook. In > > > particular, I had difficulty understanding Figure 3. Were the people > who > > > started M1 also those who started M2-M3? ( " Once students achieved the > > > object of the activity?in the first case, to avoid the closure of the > > > schools?they focused the protests on another object"). > > > > > > Did the M4 people get the idea from M1 through a FB connection form M1? > > Did > > > you get any sense of what distinguished pages that got a few hundred > > versus > > > 10,000 reactions? > > > > > > Harshad - Did you think the article failed to consider social issues? > > There > > > is no information about you on the xmca membership > > > page, so it is difficult to know from what part of the world you are > > > writing. Unless I miss my guess, some people will wonder at your > > > use of the word "man" where the local practice might put "humankind" or > > > some other gender inclusive term. > > > > > > David - Daylight saving time tonight so I find myself "working late." > It > > > got me to wondering how many people live in Seoul. A lot, it turns out. > > > About 9-10 million. That got me to wondering about how much faster all > > > those people would be getting around on horses with all the horse plops > > to > > > clamber over. And all that hay to haul into town for the morning rush > > > hour. :-) > > > > > > mike > > > > > > On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Glassman, Michael < > glassman.13@osu.edu> > > > wrote: > > > > > >> Hi David, > > >> > > >> I'm sure those meddling kids won't come back on your lawn any time > soon. > > >> > > >> But really, the article did not say Facebook is a new type of > > technology. > > >> I believe they said that it's a form of human-technology interaction > and > > >> suggested perhaps social media was a new type of human-technology > > >> interaction. I don't agree with this phrasing. I tend to think of > > Facebook > > >> more as an application of Internet technology - but either way > Facebook > > is > > >> just a form or an application. Is the internetworking of computer, > radio > > >> and satellite communication an enormous step forward in how humans > > >> communicate. I think so - it's really extraordinary on a number of > > levels > > >> but that's really not the conversation for this article. > > >> > > >> I do think the authors have done an analysis that is interesting and > > >> possibly important, especially when one considers what is currently > > going > > >> on down in Parkland (some might be happy to know that, at least from > > what I > > >> have read, Facebook isn't dominant or even that important for these > > >> students. Adults have been using it more for larger organizational > > events > > >> like the March 14 walkout and the March 24 march). I have read some > > >> articles on organizing on online forums (and actually wrote a not very > > good > > >> one a few years back). Most of them are communications based an don't > > have > > >> strong theoretical underpinning which is why I think this article > might > > be > > >> an important step forward. > > >> > > >> I think the idea of using third generation activity theory might be a > > good > > >> idea for this type of analysis. I myself have seen ties between the > > >> trialogical approach being developed by Hakkareinan and Paavola and > > what is > > >> going on down in Parkland. The students are creating their own > projects > > and > > >> then getting the larger community to buy in to and support what they > are > > >> doing which is in turn changing the quality of their activities. I > have > > my > > >> own ideas on why this is suddenly happening and direct communication > > >> technologies like Twitter and texting (which seem primary vehicles) > are > > >> only part of it. > > >> > > >> Anyway, this particular article I think is really timely and should > give > > >> us a lot to think about. > > >> > > >> Michael > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > >> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg > > >> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2018 6:03 PM > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian > > schools > > >> > > >> So in the fifteenth century, Gutenberg exapted extant technology > already > > >> widely available in China and published a single text using moveable > > type > > >> which started a profound intellectual, cultural, and social revolution > > >> whose effects we still feel today: the rise of Protestantism, the > > >> Counter-Reformation in, among other places, Brazil, the Wars of > > Religion in > > >> France, the vicissitudes of a multii-confessional (political) State > and > > >> ultimately those of a multi-confessional (psychological) state, In the > > >> twentieth century, Ford similarly exapted extant technology, this time > > >> nearly two millenia later than China, and mass-produced automobiles > > using > > >> Taylorism, forcing everybody to buy an identical product with > > >> interchangeable parts made by factories with interchangeable workers. > > >> The automobile "revolution" did not even give us new roads, and in > Seoul > > >> today traffic moves notably slower than it would on horseback. > Clearly, > > >> there are some forms of technology that are actually semiogenic--and > > others > > >> which merely circulate capital at a faster rate and actually slow the > > >> movement of people and new ideas. > > >> > > >> So my question is very simple. How do we know that "Facebook" (which > as > > >> the name implies was originally designed to help Harvard freshmen > decide > > >> which classmates were sufficiently hot to "like") is really one of the > > >> former technologies?.There are very clear signs , beyond the obvious > > ones > > >> surrounding the American origins, that it belongs to the latter > > category, > > >> and not a few of them appear in this very article. First of all, the > > >> authors are honest enough to associate Facebook with reactionary, > > >> xenophobic, populist movements like the clowns who run the "Five > Stars" > > >> movement in Italy. Second, on the very first page, the authors try but > > do > > >> not really seem to be able to distinguish between the "post first and > > >> organize later" technologies of Occupy Wall Street and the use of > social > > >> media by the four movements in the article (including one actually > > called > > >> "Occupy Everything"). And thirdly, it is very hard for me to pinpoint > > any > > >> actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made > > possible > > >> by Facebook. If anything, Facebook seems to narrow semiogenic power > to a > > >> single consumer/computer menu. Ford said, you can get a Model A in any > > >> color you like so long as it's black. Facebook tells us the same > thing, > > but > > >> makes the verb "like" intransitive. > > >> > > >> David Kellogg > > >> Sangmyung University > > >> > > >> Recent Article in *Early Years* > > >> > > >> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and > the > > >> child?s first interrogatives > >> doi/full/10.1080/09575146.2018.1431874> > > >> > > >> Free e-print available at: > > >> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full > > >> > > >> > > >> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 7:30 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >>> Dear xmca'ers, > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> it is (bit over) due time for introducing the article for discussion > > >>> from MCA's 2018 Issue 1, before Issue 2 comes upon us soon. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> The selected article, by Monica Ferreira Lemos and Fernando Rezende > da > > >>> Cunha J?nior, is about two topics that were thematised in the last > > >>> ISCAR congress and that ought to be of much relevance to current and > > >>> future CHAT-related research: Social media and social movements. In > > >>> particular, the article examines how students use social media for > the > > >>> organization and development of 4 social movements in Brazil. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> The article is attached and is Free access during the discussion > > period. > > >>> It can be accessed free in the following link: > > >>> > > >>> https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2017.1379823 > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> The authors have kindly agreed to participate in the discussion and > > >>> they will be introducing themselves soon. I hope you will find the > > >>> article interesting and please don't be shy to share anything you > > >>> might have learned reading it, anything you might wonder about it or > > >>> that you would like see discussed. Having authors engage in dialogue > > >>> is a great opportunity that this community offers and that makes > sense > > >>> the most when many of you participate. Good reading! > > >>> > > >>> ? > > >>> > > >>> Alfredo Jornet > > >>> > > >>> New article in *Design Studies* "Imagning Design: Transitive and > > >>> intransitive dimensions" > > >>> Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > > >>> > > >> > > > > > From Phillip.White@ucdenver.edu Tue Mar 13 14:29:57 2018 From: Phillip.White@ucdenver.edu (White, Phillip) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2018 21:29:57 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools In-Reply-To: References: <1520721034406.59651@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF245E@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <0bdd10ce-7411-8083-533f-44fcfb50e928@marxists.org> <1520858083490.87795@iped.uio.no> , Message-ID: Monica, as you pointed out, social movements emerge out of conflict, and Foucault pointed out that new technologies enable new methods of discipline and surveillance. initially i believe he was identifying methods of surveillance utilised by those who exercise state sanctioned power - and of course, policing forces have utilised all internet activities, as well as FB, for surveillance. what i find interesting is that the students are also using FB as not just a method of organising their own activities, but as a way of surveilling the police and reporting out on the activities of the police. as Foucault points out, power is exercised, not situated. and clearly the students in florida are using the tools available on the internet to not just organise their own activities, but of surveillance of those they perceive as in their opposition. best, best ________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Monica Lemos Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 2:50:22 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Cc: Monica Lemos Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools Dear all, First and foremost, I would like to express my gratitude for having the opportunity to discuss my paper with Fernando at Xcmca. I have been following the comments and I will little by little respond to the ones that focus on the paper, Fernando will jump in soon. @David- Shall we ride horses then? Shall we use flinststones to set fire? I don't mean to be rude, but it seems to me we can't deny changes and transformations that comes up all the time. FB is not the first and won't be the last, so we need to develop tools that enables our understanding, analysis and if possible, transformation of such phenomena. First, every social movement emerges from a type of reaction or a manifestation of resistance and they all have their downsides and setbacks. Secondly, in the case of the 4 movements there were three types of relation with FB: a) indeed post first, organize later; b) there are serious issues going on and they need to be broadcasted, such as the police locking students at the tro station; and c) organize first, post later. Finally I don't understand the instransitivity of "like" on FB, since you like or react in other ways to something that is posted. Thank you for the comments so far and I will be back later. Best regards, Monica Em Seg, 12 de mar de 2018 21:06, mike cole escreveu: > Alfredo et al > > I read this message before reading the prior one. You are making the point > I was trying to make regarding discussion of the paper. > In our everyday lives we are experiencing a change in the wind (to use a > metaphor that Dylan made famous at another such time). > HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS ARE DISRUPTING THINGS AS USUAL for the first time in > my life. Call it 65 years. > > And we are academics and some of us are are paid to theorize such matters. > To theorize the social organization of society was > Hugh's description of the social sciences. In most American Universities, > Psychology (cap P) is located in the social sciences. > Do we approach the problem from "below" as psychologists? Do we approach it > from "above" as sociologists and political scientists? > Can you link the Leontiev who writes about the nature of human > consciousness, psychologically speaking and conducts experiments in the > laboratory that look for all the world like what goes on in my psychology > department, AND as someone who can help understand the growth of social > movements? This may also be a way to address and understanding of the > overlap and variability in the ideas of Vygotsky and Friere. > > Monica and Fernando must be reeling from all the complicated English we are > spewing. I look forward to the discussion. > > Still worrying about Figure 3! I know I need to be able to interpret it but > I am doing a lousy job. > > mike > > > On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 5:34 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > wrote: > > > Thanks for finding and sharing the link, Andy, and thanks Michael and > Mike > > for bringing the absolutely relevant connection to Parklands. > > > > There was not so long ago a discussion here as well as in a couple of > > articles in MCA about how crises leading to development most often result > > from quantitative increments that lead to qualitative leaps such that new > > forms of organization emerge from previous ones. So, David, I don't see > why > > increments in the pace of circulation (e.g., of information) would not be > > expected to bring with them changes in the organisation of the whole > > economy system. I would not say that social media is just bringing a lot > > more of the same, just as I would not a priori reject the possibility > that > > bringing a lot more of the same might not end up bringing new qualitative > > forms of communicating. The observation that "like" is intransitive in > > Facebook is interesting; but to me it needs to be put in its larger > context > > of use. And so, are we analysing Facebook as a grammar closed up in > itself, > > or as one more chain in a larger grammar of possible cooperation? > > > > I am myself concerned that Social Media like Facebook may be amplifying > > dichotomical thinking beyond the innocuous and often way-to-verbose > essays > > we academics enjoy entertaining with much more complex verbal forms than > > Facebook's intransitive "likes", only that the confrontations now seem to > > be moving to family's dinner tables, quarrels among protesters in public > > squares, or previously unheard of incarcerations for publishing tweets > and > > rap songs that critique the crown in a supposedly modern democracy like > > Spain (e.g.: http://cadenaser.com/ser/2018/02/20/tribunales/1519135083_ > > 106543.html). But the article here discussed also shows that there are > > forms of organization that these technologies are affording that may > bring > > more positive changes, like the case again in Spain of March 8th women's > > strike, the extent of which no politician or journalist had anticipated > and > > which led the government to quickly adopt a much more equity-friendly > > discourse than even the evening before (https://www.youtube.com/ > > watch?v=4_11iIELdfc). So, no, probably that one strike, or that one > > social media that may have made it possible, won't change the system. But > > they seem to incrementally add to something, don't they? > > > > Alfredo Jornet > > ________________________________ > > New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and > > intransitive dimensions" > > Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > > > > ________________________________________ > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > on behalf of Andy Blunden > > Sent: 12 March 2018 06:39 > > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian > schools > > > > That headline does not exist, but is it this: > > > > > https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/07/us/parkland-students-social-media.html > > > > Andy > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Andy Blunden > > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > > On 12/03/2018 4:02 PM, mike cole wrote: > > > Michael - I have been trying to find a digital copy of a story in > today's > > > NY Times titled "the social media warriors of parkland." For some > reason > > it > > > is not visible on the digital version.... yet. Maybe someone out there > in > > > xmca-land can find it for us? I will check again > > > in the morning to see if it appears. > > > It seems especially relevant to Monica and Fernando's article, and > > to > > > David's comment that " it is very hard for me to pinpoint any > > > actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made > > possible by > > > Facebook." The voices and forms of speaking used by the students was > > not, > > > so far as I could tell, the source of data. There are no quotations of > > any > > > students speaking differently. I assumed that this article was about > > > collective action. > > > Monica and Fernando - I confess I had difficulty following parts of the > > > article, perhaps because I am a very seldom user of Facebook. In > > > particular, I had difficulty understanding Figure 3. Were the people > who > > > started M1 also those who started M2-M3? ( " Once students achieved the > > > object of the activity?in the first case, to avoid the closure of the > > > schools?they focused the protests on another object"). > > > > > > Did the M4 people get the idea from M1 through a FB connection form M1? > > Did > > > you get any sense of what distinguished pages that got a few hundred > > versus > > > 10,000 reactions? > > > > > > Harshad - Did you think the article failed to consider social issues? > > There > > > is no information about you on the xmca membership > > > page, so it is difficult to know from what part of the world you are > > > writing. Unless I miss my guess, some people will wonder at your > > > use of the word "man" where the local practice might put "humankind" or > > > some other gender inclusive term. > > > > > > David - Daylight saving time tonight so I find myself "working late." > It > > > got me to wondering how many people live in Seoul. A lot, it turns out. > > > About 9-10 million. That got me to wondering about how much faster all > > > those people would be getting around on horses with all the horse plops > > to > > > clamber over. And all that hay to haul into town for the morning rush > > > hour. :-) > > > > > > mike > > > > > > On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Glassman, Michael < > glassman.13@osu.edu> > > > wrote: > > > > > >> Hi David, > > >> > > >> I'm sure those meddling kids won't come back on your lawn any time > soon. > > >> > > >> But really, the article did not say Facebook is a new type of > > technology. > > >> I believe they said that it's a form of human-technology interaction > and > > >> suggested perhaps social media was a new type of human-technology > > >> interaction. I don't agree with this phrasing. I tend to think of > > Facebook > > >> more as an application of Internet technology - but either way > Facebook > > is > > >> just a form or an application. Is the internetworking of computer, > radio > > >> and satellite communication an enormous step forward in how humans > > >> communicate. I think so - it's really extraordinary on a number of > > levels > > >> but that's really not the conversation for this article. > > >> > > >> I do think the authors have done an analysis that is interesting and > > >> possibly important, especially when one considers what is currently > > going > > >> on down in Parkland (some might be happy to know that, at least from > > what I > > >> have read, Facebook isn't dominant or even that important for these > > >> students. Adults have been using it more for larger organizational > > events > > >> like the March 14 walkout and the March 24 march). I have read some > > >> articles on organizing on online forums (and actually wrote a not very > > good > > >> one a few years back). Most of them are communications based an don't > > have > > >> strong theoretical underpinning which is why I think this article > might > > be > > >> an important step forward. > > >> > > >> I think the idea of using third generation activity theory might be a > > good > > >> idea for this type of analysis. I myself have seen ties between the > > >> trialogical approach being developed by Hakkareinan and Paavola and > > what is > > >> going on down in Parkland. The students are creating their own > projects > > and > > >> then getting the larger community to buy in to and support what they > are > > >> doing which is in turn changing the quality of their activities. I > have > > my > > >> own ideas on why this is suddenly happening and direct communication > > >> technologies like Twitter and texting (which seem primary vehicles) > are > > >> only part of it. > > >> > > >> Anyway, this particular article I think is really timely and should > give > > >> us a lot to think about. > > >> > > >> Michael > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > >> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg > > >> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2018 6:03 PM > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian > > schools > > >> > > >> So in the fifteenth century, Gutenberg exapted extant technology > already > > >> widely available in China and published a single text using moveable > > type > > >> which started a profound intellectual, cultural, and social revolution > > >> whose effects we still feel today: the rise of Protestantism, the > > >> Counter-Reformation in, among other places, Brazil, the Wars of > > Religion in > > >> France, the vicissitudes of a multii-confessional (political) State > and > > >> ultimately those of a multi-confessional (psychological) state, In the > > >> twentieth century, Ford similarly exapted extant technology, this time > > >> nearly two millenia later than China, and mass-produced automobiles > > using > > >> Taylorism, forcing everybody to buy an identical product with > > >> interchangeable parts made by factories with interchangeable workers. > > >> The automobile "revolution" did not even give us new roads, and in > Seoul > > >> today traffic moves notably slower than it would on horseback. > Clearly, > > >> there are some forms of technology that are actually semiogenic--and > > others > > >> which merely circulate capital at a faster rate and actually slow the > > >> movement of people and new ideas. > > >> > > >> So my question is very simple. How do we know that "Facebook" (which > as > > >> the name implies was originally designed to help Harvard freshmen > decide > > >> which classmates were sufficiently hot to "like") is really one of the > > >> former technologies?.There are very clear signs , beyond the obvious > > ones > > >> surrounding the American origins, that it belongs to the latter > > category, > > >> and not a few of them appear in this very article. First of all, the > > >> authors are honest enough to associate Facebook with reactionary, > > >> xenophobic, populist movements like the clowns who run the "Five > Stars" > > >> movement in Italy. Second, on the very first page, the authors try but > > do > > >> not really seem to be able to distinguish between the "post first and > > >> organize later" technologies of Occupy Wall Street and the use of > social > > >> media by the four movements in the article (including one actually > > called > > >> "Occupy Everything"). And thirdly, it is very hard for me to pinpoint > > any > > >> actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made > > possible > > >> by Facebook. If anything, Facebook seems to narrow semiogenic power > to a > > >> single consumer/computer menu. Ford said, you can get a Model A in any > > >> color you like so long as it's black. Facebook tells us the same > thing, > > but > > >> makes the verb "like" intransitive. > > >> > > >> David Kellogg > > >> Sangmyung University > > >> > > >> Recent Article in *Early Years* > > >> > > >> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and > the > > >> child?s first interrogatives > >> doi/full/10.1080/09575146.2018.1431874> > > >> > > >> Free e-print available at: > > >> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full > > >> > > >> > > >> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 7:30 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >>> Dear xmca'ers, > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> it is (bit over) due time for introducing the article for discussion > > >>> from MCA's 2018 Issue 1, before Issue 2 comes upon us soon. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> The selected article, by Monica Ferreira Lemos and Fernando Rezende > da > > >>> Cunha J?nior, is about two topics that were thematised in the last > > >>> ISCAR congress and that ought to be of much relevance to current and > > >>> future CHAT-related research: Social media and social movements. In > > >>> particular, the article examines how students use social media for > the > > >>> organization and development of 4 social movements in Brazil. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> The article is attached and is Free access during the discussion > > period. > > >>> It can be accessed free in the following link: > > >>> > > >>> https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2017.1379823 > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> The authors have kindly agreed to participate in the discussion and > > >>> they will be introducing themselves soon. I hope you will find the > > >>> article interesting and please don't be shy to share anything you > > >>> might have learned reading it, anything you might wonder about it or > > >>> that you would like see discussed. Having authors engage in dialogue > > >>> is a great opportunity that this community offers and that makes > sense > > >>> the most when many of you participate. Good reading! > > >>> > > >>> ? > > >>> > > >>> Alfredo Jornet > > >>> > > >>> New article in *Design Studies* "Imagning Design: Transitive and > > >>> intransitive dimensions" > > >>> Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > > >>> > > >> > > > > > From dkellogg60@gmail.com Tue Mar 13 14:36:13 2018 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2018 06:36:13 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools In-Reply-To: References: <1520721034406.59651@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF245E@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <0bdd10ce-7411-8083-533f-44fcfb50e928@marxists.org> <1520858083490.87795@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: Not rude at all, Monica. It is a point Mike and others made less forcefully, and it is much appreciated. Mike also pointed out, in his comments on Yrjo Engstrom's presentation on social movements at ISCAR, that not all social movements are progressive. You also point this out when you cite the five star movement in Italy. And look at this, from today's news: http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-43385677 I don't want to laugh or to cry, but only to understand. One way of understanding that is both (as Lois Holzman would put it) a tool and a result is trying to predict: to replace astonishment with foresight. For example, we know that there are problems when workers try to take control of bourgeois institutions for their own purposes: the institutions fight back.There is a 2010 article in MCA by Brecht de Smet which argues that Facebook actually helped Egypt's intellectuals dilute the working-class content of the Mahalla strike movement: the result was broad enough to take down Mubarak, but so shallow that it has left the Mahalla workers exactly where they were. Brecht's article doesn't speak much of how this contradiction is expressed internally, within the apparent "solidarity" of the movement itself. The form in which people say things is not only relevant to how many people they are addressing, it is also relevant to what they have to say. It seems to me that the "faux intimate" tone of "like" only accentuates the contradiction between agitation (taking a few simple ideas to many people) and propaganda (taking a theoretical world view to a vanguard). I am a linguist, and so I think that form and content are never irrelevant to each other. For example, if you address me in Portuguese in your next post, I will learn even more! David Kellogg Sangmyung University Recent Article in *Early Years* The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and the child?s first interrogatives Free e-print available at: https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 5:50 AM, Monica Lemos wrote: > Dear all, > > First and foremost, I would like to express my gratitude for having the > opportunity to discuss my paper with Fernando at Xcmca. > > I have been following the comments and I will little by little respond to > the ones that focus on the paper, Fernando will jump in soon. > > @David- Shall we ride horses then? Shall we use flinststones to set fire? I > don't mean to be rude, but it seems to me we can't deny changes and > transformations that comes up all the time. FB is not the first and won't > be the last, so we need to develop tools that enables our understanding, > analysis and if possible, transformation of such phenomena. > > First, every social movement emerges from a type of reaction or a > manifestation of resistance and they all have their downsides and setbacks. > Secondly, in the case of the 4 movements there were three types of > relation with FB: a) indeed post first, organize later; b) there are > serious issues going on and they need to be broadcasted, such as the police > locking students at the tro station; and c) organize first, post later. > Finally I don't understand the instransitivity of "like" on FB, since you > like or react in other ways to something that is posted. > > Thank you for the comments so far and I will be back later. > > Best regards, > Monica > > > > > Em Seg, 12 de mar de 2018 21:06, mike cole escreveu: > > > Alfredo et al > > > > I read this message before reading the prior one. You are making the > point > > I was trying to make regarding discussion of the paper. > > In our everyday lives we are experiencing a change in the wind (to use a > > metaphor that Dylan made famous at another such time). > > HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS ARE DISRUPTING THINGS AS USUAL for the first time in > > my life. Call it 65 years. > > > > And we are academics and some of us are are paid to theorize such > matters. > > To theorize the social organization of society was > > Hugh's description of the social sciences. In most American Universities, > > Psychology (cap P) is located in the social sciences. > > Do we approach the problem from "below" as psychologists? Do we approach > it > > from "above" as sociologists and political scientists? > > Can you link the Leontiev who writes about the nature of human > > consciousness, psychologically speaking and conducts experiments in the > > laboratory that look for all the world like what goes on in my psychology > > department, AND as someone who can help understand the growth of social > > movements? This may also be a way to address and understanding of the > > overlap and variability in the ideas of Vygotsky and Friere. > > > > Monica and Fernando must be reeling from all the complicated English we > are > > spewing. I look forward to the discussion. > > > > Still worrying about Figure 3! I know I need to be able to interpret it > but > > I am doing a lousy job. > > > > mike > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 5:34 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > > > wrote: > > > > > Thanks for finding and sharing the link, Andy, and thanks Michael and > > Mike > > > for bringing the absolutely relevant connection to Parklands. > > > > > > There was not so long ago a discussion here as well as in a couple of > > > articles in MCA about how crises leading to development most often > result > > > from quantitative increments that lead to qualitative leaps such that > new > > > forms of organization emerge from previous ones. So, David, I don't see > > why > > > increments in the pace of circulation (e.g., of information) would not > be > > > expected to bring with them changes in the organisation of the whole > > > economy system. I would not say that social media is just bringing a > lot > > > more of the same, just as I would not a priori reject the possibility > > that > > > bringing a lot more of the same might not end up bringing new > qualitative > > > forms of communicating. The observation that "like" is intransitive in > > > Facebook is interesting; but to me it needs to be put in its larger > > context > > > of use. And so, are we analysing Facebook as a grammar closed up in > > itself, > > > or as one more chain in a larger grammar of possible cooperation? > > > > > > I am myself concerned that Social Media like Facebook may be amplifying > > > dichotomical thinking beyond the innocuous and often way-to-verbose > > essays > > > we academics enjoy entertaining with much more complex verbal forms > than > > > Facebook's intransitive "likes", only that the confrontations now seem > to > > > be moving to family's dinner tables, quarrels among protesters in > public > > > squares, or previously unheard of incarcerations for publishing tweets > > and > > > rap songs that critique the crown in a supposedly modern democracy like > > > Spain (e.g.: http://cadenaser.com/ser/2018/ > 02/20/tribunales/1519135083_ > > > 106543.html). But the article here discussed also shows that there are > > > forms of organization that these technologies are affording that may > > bring > > > more positive changes, like the case again in Spain of March 8th > women's > > > strike, the extent of which no politician or journalist had anticipated > > and > > > which led the government to quickly adopt a much more equity-friendly > > > discourse than even the evening before (https://www.youtube.com/ > > > watch?v=4_11iIELdfc). So, no, probably that one strike, or that one > > > social media that may have made it possible, won't change the system. > But > > > they seem to incrementally add to something, don't they? > > > > > > Alfredo Jornet > > > ________________________________ > > > New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and > > > intransitive dimensions" > > > Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > > > > > > ________________________________________ > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > on behalf of Andy Blunden > > > Sent: 12 March 2018 06:39 > > > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian > > schools > > > > > > That headline does not exist, but is it this: > > > > > > > > https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/07/us/parkland-students- > social-media.html > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Andy Blunden > > > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > > > On 12/03/2018 4:02 PM, mike cole wrote: > > > > Michael - I have been trying to find a digital copy of a story in > > today's > > > > NY Times titled "the social media warriors of parkland." For some > > reason > > > it > > > > is not visible on the digital version.... yet. Maybe someone out > there > > in > > > > xmca-land can find it for us? I will check again > > > > in the morning to see if it appears. > > > > It seems especially relevant to Monica and Fernando's article, > and > > > to > > > > David's comment that " it is very hard for me to pinpoint any > > > > actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made > > > possible by > > > > Facebook." The voices and forms of speaking used by the students was > > > not, > > > > so far as I could tell, the source of data. There are no quotations > of > > > any > > > > students speaking differently. I assumed that this article was about > > > > collective action. > > > > Monica and Fernando - I confess I had difficulty following parts of > the > > > > article, perhaps because I am a very seldom user of Facebook. In > > > > particular, I had difficulty understanding Figure 3. Were the people > > who > > > > started M1 also those who started M2-M3? ( " Once students achieved > the > > > > object of the activity?in the first case, to avoid the closure of the > > > > schools?they focused the protests on another object"). > > > > > > > > Did the M4 people get the idea from M1 through a FB connection form > M1? > > > Did > > > > you get any sense of what distinguished pages that got a few hundred > > > versus > > > > 10,000 reactions? > > > > > > > > Harshad - Did you think the article failed to consider social issues? > > > There > > > > is no information about you on the xmca membership > > > > page, so it is difficult to know from what part of the world you are > > > > writing. Unless I miss my guess, some people will wonder at your > > > > use of the word "man" where the local practice might put "humankind" > or > > > > some other gender inclusive term. > > > > > > > > David - Daylight saving time tonight so I find myself "working late." > > It > > > > got me to wondering how many people live in Seoul. A lot, it turns > out. > > > > About 9-10 million. That got me to wondering about how much faster > all > > > > those people would be getting around on horses with all the horse > plops > > > to > > > > clamber over. And all that hay to haul into town for the morning rush > > > > hour. :-) > > > > > > > > mike > > > > > > > > On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Glassman, Michael < > > glassman.13@osu.edu> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> Hi David, > > > >> > > > >> I'm sure those meddling kids won't come back on your lawn any time > > soon. > > > >> > > > >> But really, the article did not say Facebook is a new type of > > > technology. > > > >> I believe they said that it's a form of human-technology interaction > > and > > > >> suggested perhaps social media was a new type of human-technology > > > >> interaction. I don't agree with this phrasing. I tend to think of > > > Facebook > > > >> more as an application of Internet technology - but either way > > Facebook > > > is > > > >> just a form or an application. Is the internetworking of computer, > > radio > > > >> and satellite communication an enormous step forward in how humans > > > >> communicate. I think so - it's really extraordinary on a number of > > > levels > > > >> but that's really not the conversation for this article. > > > >> > > > >> I do think the authors have done an analysis that is interesting and > > > >> possibly important, especially when one considers what is currently > > > going > > > >> on down in Parkland (some might be happy to know that, at least from > > > what I > > > >> have read, Facebook isn't dominant or even that important for these > > > >> students. Adults have been using it more for larger organizational > > > events > > > >> like the March 14 walkout and the March 24 march). I have read some > > > >> articles on organizing on online forums (and actually wrote a not > very > > > good > > > >> one a few years back). Most of them are communications based an > don't > > > have > > > >> strong theoretical underpinning which is why I think this article > > might > > > be > > > >> an important step forward. > > > >> > > > >> I think the idea of using third generation activity theory might be > a > > > good > > > >> idea for this type of analysis. I myself have seen ties between the > > > >> trialogical approach being developed by Hakkareinan and Paavola and > > > what is > > > >> going on down in Parkland. The students are creating their own > > projects > > > and > > > >> then getting the larger community to buy in to and support what they > > are > > > >> doing which is in turn changing the quality of their activities. I > > have > > > my > > > >> own ideas on why this is suddenly happening and direct communication > > > >> technologies like Twitter and texting (which seem primary vehicles) > > are > > > >> only part of it. > > > >> > > > >> Anyway, this particular article I think is really timely and should > > give > > > >> us a lot to think about. > > > >> > > > >> Michael > > > >> > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > > >> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg > > > >> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2018 6:03 PM > > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian > > > schools > > > >> > > > >> So in the fifteenth century, Gutenberg exapted extant technology > > already > > > >> widely available in China and published a single text using moveable > > > type > > > >> which started a profound intellectual, cultural, and social > revolution > > > >> whose effects we still feel today: the rise of Protestantism, the > > > >> Counter-Reformation in, among other places, Brazil, the Wars of > > > Religion in > > > >> France, the vicissitudes of a multii-confessional (political) State > > and > > > >> ultimately those of a multi-confessional (psychological) state, In > the > > > >> twentieth century, Ford similarly exapted extant technology, this > time > > > >> nearly two millenia later than China, and mass-produced automobiles > > > using > > > >> Taylorism, forcing everybody to buy an identical product with > > > >> interchangeable parts made by factories with interchangeable > workers. > > > >> The automobile "revolution" did not even give us new roads, and in > > Seoul > > > >> today traffic moves notably slower than it would on horseback. > > Clearly, > > > >> there are some forms of technology that are actually semiogenic--and > > > others > > > >> which merely circulate capital at a faster rate and actually slow > the > > > >> movement of people and new ideas. > > > >> > > > >> So my question is very simple. How do we know that "Facebook" (which > > as > > > >> the name implies was originally designed to help Harvard freshmen > > decide > > > >> which classmates were sufficiently hot to "like") is really one of > the > > > >> former technologies?.There are very clear signs , beyond the obvious > > > ones > > > >> surrounding the American origins, that it belongs to the latter > > > category, > > > >> and not a few of them appear in this very article. First of all, the > > > >> authors are honest enough to associate Facebook with reactionary, > > > >> xenophobic, populist movements like the clowns who run the "Five > > Stars" > > > >> movement in Italy. Second, on the very first page, the authors try > but > > > do > > > >> not really seem to be able to distinguish between the "post first > and > > > >> organize later" technologies of Occupy Wall Street and the use of > > social > > > >> media by the four movements in the article (including one actually > > > called > > > >> "Occupy Everything"). And thirdly, it is very hard for me to > pinpoint > > > any > > > >> actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made > > > possible > > > >> by Facebook. If anything, Facebook seems to narrow semiogenic power > > to a > > > >> single consumer/computer menu. Ford said, you can get a Model A in > any > > > >> color you like so long as it's black. Facebook tells us the same > > thing, > > > but > > > >> makes the verb "like" intransitive. > > > >> > > > >> David Kellogg > > > >> Sangmyung University > > > >> > > > >> Recent Article in *Early Years* > > > >> > > > >> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and > > the > > > >> child?s first interrogatives > > >> doi/full/10.1080/09575146.2018.1431874> > > > >> > > > >> Free e-print available at: > > > >> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 7:30 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > > > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > > > >> wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> Dear xmca'ers, > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> it is (bit over) due time for introducing the article for > discussion > > > >>> from MCA's 2018 Issue 1, before Issue 2 comes upon us soon. > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> The selected article, by Monica Ferreira Lemos and Fernando Rezende > > da > > > >>> Cunha J?nior, is about two topics that were thematised in the last > > > >>> ISCAR congress and that ought to be of much relevance to current > and > > > >>> future CHAT-related research: Social media and social movements. In > > > >>> particular, the article examines how students use social media for > > the > > > >>> organization and development of 4 social movements in Brazil. > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> The article is attached and is Free access during the discussion > > > period. > > > >>> It can be accessed free in the following link: > > > >>> > > > >>> https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2017.1379823 > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> The authors have kindly agreed to participate in the discussion and > > > >>> they will be introducing themselves soon. I hope you will find the > > > >>> article interesting and please don't be shy to share anything you > > > >>> might have learned reading it, anything you might wonder about it > or > > > >>> that you would like see discussed. Having authors engage in > dialogue > > > >>> is a great opportunity that this community offers and that makes > > sense > > > >>> the most when many of you participate. Good reading! > > > >>> > > > >>> ? > > > >>> > > > >>> Alfredo Jornet > > > >>> > > > >>> New article in *Design Studies* "Imagning Design: Transitive and > > > >>> intransitive dimensions" > > > >>> Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/ > a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > > > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > From glassman.13@osu.edu Tue Mar 13 16:25:40 2018 From: glassman.13@osu.edu (Glassman, Michael) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2018 23:25:40 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools In-Reply-To: <2017557051.756650.1520967771201@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1520721034406.59651@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF245E@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <0bdd10ce-7411-8083-533f-44fcfb50e928@marxists.org> <1520858083490.87795@iped.uio.no> <2017557051.756650.1520967771201@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF28C5@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> Hello Fernando, What I find really interesting is this phrase, "it was the first time in Brazilian history that students (who were not supposed to interfere) interfered in a political decision." Mike alluded to this in his message as well about Parkland. I find it fascinating that the same type of movement among the same age group is occurring simultaneously in the U.S. and in Brazil. Yet I believe these students have no contact with each other. And there is nobody teaching them. There are no experts. They are learning in a way that challenges many of our belief systems about learning (unless they are machines). Tomorrow is going to be a very interesting day in the U.S. As part of the anti-gun movement students all over the country are going to be walking out of school and staying out for seventeen minutes. In some places schools will support this. In some places it just won't happen. But I am growing more fearful of what happens if there is a flashpoint between the schools and the students. I wonder if some schools will try and chain the doors. I wonder if some schools will lock the students out (this already happened at one school putting students in danger). I wonder if police will decide to have a presence. This will be the first time students (at least high schoolers) en masse decided to challenge the authority of the state. Michael -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Fernando Cunha Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 3:03 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity ; mike cole Cc: Lemos, Monica Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools Dear all, I really appreciate the discussion so far, and I liked the way some of you used some metaphors. It was far from our intention to reinvent the wheel or to use flint stones to light fire. What I think it is important is that there is no "if" in human history, and we are where we are because we transform the places we live, as well as the tools we use. We can for sure ride horses in the cities, but the horses would sweat so much (considering the asphalt roads), that in a matter of hours they would die. Since life is forward, we tried to show in our article a small part of what the movements organized by the students were.It is important to highlight, that despite people that were not in favor of protests (including some students!), it was the first time in Brazilian history that students (who were not supposed to interfere) interfered in a political decision. And they did so not only by using Facebook. As we mention in our paper, Facebook is one aspect of the protests, and we considered it as a mediational communicative tool. As I mentioned before in this answer, we as human beings use tools that are available, reshape them, and sometimes use them for a purpose that is completely different from the original idea. I myself am a secondary education teacher, and I am also a researcher because I am a secondary education teacher. We may have different points of view when you research something as an outsider, and when you participate (not as an ethnographer), but as a subject of the group. In my humble opinion, we are still trying to conceptualize (and stabilize) things that move faster than we can handle as scientists, or to compare contexts that cannot be compared. ? I am looking forward to your reactions. Best regards, __________________________Fernando R. Cunha J?nior, PhD. http://fernandorcjr.wordpress.com Em segunda-feira, 12 de mar?o de 2018 21:05:34 BRT, mike cole escreveu: Alfredo et al I read this message before reading the prior one. You are making the point I was trying to make regarding discussion of the paper. In our everyday lives we are experiencing a change in the wind (to use a metaphor that Dylan made famous at another such time). HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS ARE DISRUPTING THINGS AS USUAL for the first time in my life. Call it 65 years. And we are academics and some of us are are paid to theorize such matters. To theorize the social organization of society was Hugh's description of the social sciences. In most American Universities, Psychology (cap P) is located in the social sciences. Do we approach the problem from "below" as psychologists? Do we approach it from "above" as sociologists and political scientists? Can you link the Leontiev who writes about the nature of human consciousness, psychologically speaking and conducts experiments in the laboratory that look for all the world like what goes on in my psychology department, AND as someone who can help understand the growth of social movements? This may also be a way to address and understanding of the overlap and variability in the ideas of Vygotsky and Friere. Monica and Fernando must be reeling from all the complicated English we are spewing. I look forward to the discussion. Still worrying about Figure 3! I know I need to be able to interpret it but I am doing a lousy job. mike On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 5:34 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > Thanks for finding and sharing the link, Andy, and thanks Michael and > Mike for bringing the absolutely relevant connection to Parklands. > > There was not so long ago a discussion here as well as in a couple of > articles in MCA about how crises leading to development most often > result from quantitative increments that lead to qualitative leaps > such that new forms of organization emerge from previous ones. So, > David, I don't see why increments in the pace of circulation (e.g., of > information) would not be expected to bring with them changes in the > organisation of the whole economy system. I would not say that social > media is just bringing a lot more of the same, just as I would not a > priori reject the possibility that bringing a lot more of the same > might not end up bringing new qualitative forms of communicating. The > observation that "like" is intransitive in Facebook is interesting; > but to me it needs to be put in its larger context of use. And so, are > we analysing Facebook as a grammar closed up in itself, or as one more chain in a larger grammar of possible cooperation? > > I am myself concerned that Social Media like Facebook may be > amplifying dichotomical thinking beyond the innocuous and often > way-to-verbose essays we academics enjoy entertaining with much more > complex verbal forms than Facebook's intransitive "likes", only that > the confrontations now seem to be moving to family's dinner tables, > quarrels among protesters in public squares, or previously unheard of > incarcerations for publishing tweets and rap songs that critique the > crown in a supposedly modern democracy like Spain (e.g.: > http://cadenaser.com/ser/2018/02/20/tribunales/1519135083_ > 106543.html). But the article here discussed also shows that there are > forms of organization that these technologies are affording that may > bring more positive changes, like the case again in Spain of March 8th > women's strike, the extent of which no politician or journalist had > anticipated and which led the government to quickly adopt a much more > equity-friendly discourse than even the evening before > (https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=4_11iIELdfc). So, no, probably that > one strike, or that one social media that may have made it possible, > won't change the system. But they seem to incrementally add to something, don't they? > > Alfredo Jornet > ________________________________ > New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and > intransitive dimensions" > Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > > ________________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Andy Blunden > > Sent: 12 March 2018 06:39 > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian > schools > > That headline does not exist, but is it this: > > https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/07/us/parkland-students-social-media.h > tml > > Andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > On 12/03/2018 4:02 PM, mike cole wrote: > > Michael - I have been trying to find a digital copy of a story in > > today's NY Times titled "the social media warriors of parkland." For > > some reason > it > > is not visible on the digital version.... yet. Maybe someone out > >there in xmca-land can find it for us? I will check again in the > >morning to see if it appears. > >? ? ? It seems especially relevant to Monica and Fernando's article, > >and > to > > David's comment that "? it is very hard for me to pinpoint any > > actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made > possible by > > Facebook."? The voices and forms of speaking used by the students > > was > not, > > so far as I could tell, the source of data. There are no quotations > > of > any > > students speaking differently. I assumed that this article was about > > collective action. > > Monica and Fernando - I confess I had difficulty following parts of > > the article, perhaps because I am a very seldom user of Facebook. In > > particular, I had difficulty understanding Figure 3.? Were the > > people who started M1 also those who started M2-M3? ( " Once > > students achieved the object of the activity?in the first case, to > > avoid the closure of the schools?they focused the protests on another object"). > > > > Did the M4 people get the idea from M1 through a FB connection form M1? > Did > > you get any sense of what distinguished pages that got a few hundred > versus > > 10,000 reactions? > > > > Harshad - Did you think the article failed to consider social issues? > There > > is no information about you on the xmca membership page, so it is > > difficult to know from what part of the world you are writing. > > Unless I miss my guess, some people will wonder at your use of the > > word "man" where the local practice might put "humankind" or some > > other gender inclusive term. > > > > David - Daylight saving time tonight so I find myself "working > > late."? It got me to wondering how many people live in Seoul. A lot, it turns out. > > About 9-10 million. That got me to wondering about how much faster > > all those people would be getting around on horses with all the > > horse plops > to > > clamber over. And all that hay to haul into town for the morning > > rush hour.? :-) > > > > mike > > > > On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Glassman, Michael > > > > wrote: > > > >> Hi David, > >> > >> I'm sure those meddling kids won't come back on your lawn any time soon. > >> > >> But really, the article did not say Facebook is a new type of > technology. > >> I believe they said that it's a form of human-technology > >> interaction and suggested perhaps social media was a new type of > >> human-technology interaction.? I don't agree with this phrasing. I > >> tend to think of > Facebook > >> more as an application of Internet technology - but either way > >> Facebook > is > >> just a form or an application. Is the internetworking of computer, > >> radio and satellite communication an enormous step forward in how > >> humans communicate.? I think so - it's really extraordinary on a > >> number of > levels > >> but that's really not the conversation for this article. > >> > >> I do think the authors have done an analysis that is interesting > >> and possibly important, especially when one considers what is > >> currently > going > >> on down in Parkland (some might be happy to know that, at least > >> from > what I > >> have read, Facebook isn't dominant or even that important for these > >> students. Adults have been using it more for larger organizational > events > >> like the March 14 walkout and the March 24 march).? I have read > >> some articles on organizing on online forums (and actually wrote a > >> not very > good > >> one a few years back). Most of them are communications based an > >> don't > have > >> strong theoretical underpinning which is why I think this article > >> might > be > >> an important step forward. > >> > >> I think the idea of using third generation activity theory might be > >> a > good > >> idea for this type of analysis. I myself have seen ties between the > >> trialogical approach being developed by Hakkareinan and Paavola and > what is > >> going on down in Parkland. The students are creating their own > >> projects > and > >> then getting the larger community to buy in to and support what > >> they are doing which is in turn changing the quality of their > >> activities. I have > my > >> own ideas on why this is suddenly happening and direct > >> communication technologies like Twitter and texting (which seem > >> primary vehicles) are only part of it. > >> > >> Anyway, this particular article I think is really timely and should > >> give us a lot to think about. > >> > >> Michael > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > >> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg > >> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2018 6:03 PM > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian > schools > >> > >> So in the fifteenth century, Gutenberg exapted extant technology > >> already widely available in China and published a single text using > >> moveable > type > >> which started a profound intellectual, cultural, and social > >> revolution whose effects we still feel today: the rise of > >> Protestantism, the Counter-Reformation in, among other places, > >> Brazil, the Wars of > Religion in > >> France, the vicissitudes of a multii-confessional (political) State > >> and ultimately those of a multi-confessional (psychological) state, > >> In the twentieth century, Ford similarly exapted extant technology, > >> this time nearly two millenia later than China, and mass-produced > >> automobiles > using > >> Taylorism, forcing everybody to buy an identical product with > >> interchangeable parts made by factories with interchangeable workers. > >> The automobile "revolution" did not even give us new roads, and in > >> Seoul today traffic moves notably slower than it would on > >> horseback. Clearly, there are some forms of technology that are > >> actually semiogenic--and > others > >> which merely circulate capital at a faster rate and actually slow > >> the movement of people and new ideas. > >> > >> So my question is very simple. How do we know that "Facebook" > >> (which as the name implies was originally designed to help Harvard > >> freshmen decide which classmates were sufficiently hot to "like") > >> is really one of the former technologies?.There are very clear > >> signs , beyond the obvious > ones > >> surrounding the American origins, that it belongs to the latter > category, > >> and not a few of them appear in this very article. First of all, > >> the authors are honest enough to associate Facebook with > >> reactionary, xenophobic, populist movements like the clowns who run the "Five Stars" > >> movement in Italy. Second, on the very first page, the authors try > >> but > do > >> not really seem to be able to distinguish between the "post first > >> and organize later" technologies of Occupy Wall Street and the use > >> of social media by the four movements in the article (including one > >> actually > called > >> "Occupy Everything"). And thirdly, it is very hard for me to > >> pinpoint > any > >> actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made > possible > >> by Facebook. If anything, Facebook seems to narrow semiogenic power > >> to a single consumer/computer menu. Ford said, you can get a Model > >> A in any color you like so long as it's black. Facebook tells us > >> the same thing, > but > >> makes the verb "like" intransitive. > >> > >> David Kellogg > >> Sangmyung University > >> > >> Recent Article in *Early Years* > >> > >> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, > >> and the child?s first interrogatives >> doi/full/10.1080/09575146.2018.1431874> > >> > >> Free e-print available at: > >> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full > >> > >> > >> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 7:30 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Dear xmca'ers, > >>> > >>> > >>> it is (bit over) due time for introducing the article for > >>> discussion from MCA's 2018 Issue 1, before Issue 2 comes upon us soon. > >>> > >>> > >>> The selected article, by Monica Ferreira Lemos and Fernando > >>> Rezende da Cunha J?nior, is about two topics that were thematised > >>> in the last ISCAR congress and that ought to be of much relevance > >>> to current and future CHAT-related research: Social media and > >>> social movements. In particular, the article examines how students > >>> use social media for the organization and development of 4 social movements in Brazil. > >>> > >>> > >>> The article is attached and is Free access during the discussion > period. > >>> It can be accessed free in the following link: > >>> > >>> https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2017.1379823 > >>> > >>> > >>> The authors have kindly agreed to participate in the discussion > >>> and they will be introducing themselves soon. I hope you? will > >>> find the article interesting and please don't be shy to share > >>> anything you might have learned reading it, anything you might > >>> wonder about it or that you would like see discussed. Having > >>> authors engage in dialogue is a great opportunity that this > >>> community offers and that makes sense the most when many of you participate. Good reading! > >>> > >>> ? > >>> > >>> Alfredo Jornet > >>> > >>> New article in *Design Studies* "Imagning Design: Transitive and > >>> intransitive dimensions" > >>> Free print available: > >>> https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > >>> > >> > > From andyb@marxists.org Tue Mar 13 16:59:21 2018 From: andyb@marxists.org (Andy Blunden) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2018 10:59:21 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools In-Reply-To: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF28C5@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> References: <1520721034406.59651@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF245E@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <0bdd10ce-7411-8083-533f-44fcfb50e928@marxists.org> <1520858083490.87795@iped.uio.no> <2017557051.756650.1520967771201@mail.yahoo.com> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF28C5@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> Message-ID: <3c6562c0-b165-6147-b2b3-a896b647295c@marxists.org> During the anti-Vietnam War movement there were certainly actions by school children. In Australia, so I'm sure it would have happened in the US. But in that case the schoolkids were joining what was already a mass movement. The anti-gun movement obviously exists in the US, among adults, but I get the impression that in both the USD & Brazil, it is schoolkid initiated. Obviously very many of the kids have the moral support and encouragement of their own parents and many teachers and principals. But that is not the same as actually setting dates and places, informing relevant people, drafts up letters and statements, etc., etc. Every protest in modern times (20th century) happens thanks to the tireless work of a certain social type called the Organiser. The Organiser maintains a two-inch think address book, kept up to date by regular calls relevant to a variety of campaigns and utilised in the latest protest. The Organiser hardly ever sleeps, they really *work* at it, and you receive multiple phone calls reminding you when to be where and to bring this or that or your friend along too. They also know their subject and have mastered all the facts and rhetoric and pester all the media. Whatever else it is, FaceBook enables everyone to be an Organiser. The downside is that it has made people lazy; poster runs, where a group of activists run around the business areas at night sticking up posters, have almost disappeared, as have the phone trees which organised the Peace Movement. But we all know the story of redundant skills Although I always resist simplistic maxims like "the transformation of quantity into quality" it really seems reasonable to me that social media plus Trump plus yet another mass murder cheered on by the NRA and their political representatives can, at a certain point, exceed boiling point. I look forward with interest to how it goes tomorrow. And how a new generation handles themselves when they go out to work and vote. Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm On 14/03/2018 10:25 AM, Glassman, Michael wrote: > Hello Fernando, > > What I find really interesting is this phrase, > > "it was the first time in Brazilian history that students (who were not supposed to interfere) interfered in a political decision." > > Mike alluded to this in his message as well about Parkland. I find it fascinating that the same type of movement among the same age group is occurring simultaneously in the U.S. and in Brazil. Yet I believe these students have no contact with each other. And there is nobody teaching them. There are no experts. They are learning in a way that challenges many of our belief systems about learning (unless they are machines). > > Tomorrow is going to be a very interesting day in the U.S. As part of the anti-gun movement students all over the country are going to be walking out of school and staying out for seventeen minutes. In some places schools will support this. In some places it just won't happen. But I am growing more fearful of what happens if there is a flashpoint between the schools and the students. I wonder if some schools will try and chain the doors. I wonder if some schools will lock the students out (this already happened at one school putting students in danger). I wonder if police will decide to have a presence. This will be the first time students (at least high schoolers) en masse decided to challenge the authority of the state. > > Michael > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Fernando Cunha > Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 3:03 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity ; mike cole > Cc: Lemos, Monica > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools > > Dear all, > I really appreciate the discussion so far, and I liked the way some of you used some metaphors. It was far from our intention to reinvent the wheel or to use flint stones to light fire. What I think it is important is that there is no "if" in human history, and we are where we are because we transform the places we live, as well as the tools we use. We can for sure ride horses in the cities, but the horses would sweat so much (considering the asphalt roads), that in a matter of hours they would die. > > Since life is forward, we tried to show in our article a small part of what the movements organized by the students were.It is important to highlight, that despite people that were not in favor of protests (including some students!), it was the first time in Brazilian history that students (who were not supposed to interfere) interfered in a political decision. And they did so not only by using Facebook. As we mention in our paper, Facebook is one aspect of the protests, and we considered it as a mediational communicative tool. As I mentioned before in this answer, we as human beings use tools that are available, reshape them, and sometimes use them for a purpose that is completely different from the original idea. > I myself am a secondary education teacher, and I am also a researcher because I am a secondary education teacher. We may have different points of view when you research something as an outsider, and when you participate (not as an ethnographer), but as a subject of the group. In my humble opinion, we are still trying to conceptualize (and stabilize) things that move faster than we can handle as scientists, or to compare contexts that cannot be compared. > > I am looking forward to your reactions. > Best regards, > > > __________________________Fernando R. Cunha J?nior, PhD. > > http://fernandorcjr.wordpress.com > > > Em segunda-feira, 12 de mar?o de 2018 21:05:34 BRT, mike cole escreveu: > > Alfredo et al > > I read this message before reading the prior one. You are making the point I was trying to make regarding discussion of the paper. > In our everyday lives we are experiencing a change in the wind (to use a metaphor that Dylan made famous at another such time). > HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS ARE DISRUPTING THINGS AS USUAL for the first time in my life. Call it 65 years. > > And we are academics and some of us are are paid to theorize such matters. > To theorize the social organization of society was Hugh's description of the social sciences. In most American Universities, Psychology (cap P) is located in the social sciences. > Do we approach the problem from "below" as psychologists? Do we approach it from "above" as sociologists and political scientists? > Can you link the Leontiev who writes about the nature of human consciousness, psychologically speaking and conducts experiments in the laboratory that look for all the world like what goes on in my psychology department, AND as someone who can help understand the growth of social movements? This may also be a way to address and understanding of the overlap and variability in the ideas of Vygotsky and Friere. > > Monica and Fernando must be reeling from all the complicated English we are spewing. I look forward to the discussion. > > Still worrying about Figure 3! I know I need to be able to interpret it but I am doing a lousy job. > > mike > > > On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 5:34 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > wrote: > >> Thanks for finding and sharing the link, Andy, and thanks Michael and >> Mike for bringing the absolutely relevant connection to Parklands. >> >> There was not so long ago a discussion here as well as in a couple of >> articles in MCA about how crises leading to development most often >> result from quantitative increments that lead to qualitative leaps >> such that new forms of organization emerge from previous ones. So, >> David, I don't see why increments in the pace of circulation (e.g., of >> information) would not be expected to bring with them changes in the >> organisation of the whole economy system. I would not say that social >> media is just bringing a lot more of the same, just as I would not a >> priori reject the possibility that bringing a lot more of the same >> might not end up bringing new qualitative forms of communicating. The >> observation that "like" is intransitive in Facebook is interesting; >> but to me it needs to be put in its larger context of use. And so, are >> we analysing Facebook as a grammar closed up in itself, or as one more chain in a larger grammar of possible cooperation? >> >> I am myself concerned that Social Media like Facebook may be >> amplifying dichotomical thinking beyond the innocuous and often >> way-to-verbose essays we academics enjoy entertaining with much more >> complex verbal forms than Facebook's intransitive "likes", only that >> the confrontations now seem to be moving to family's dinner tables, >> quarrels among protesters in public squares, or previously unheard of >> incarcerations for publishing tweets and rap songs that critique the >> crown in a supposedly modern democracy like Spain (e.g.: >> http://cadenaser.com/ser/2018/02/20/tribunales/1519135083_ >> 106543.html). But the article here discussed also shows that there are >> forms of organization that these technologies are affording that may >> bring more positive changes, like the case again in Spain of March 8th >> women's strike, the extent of which no politician or journalist had >> anticipated and which led the government to quickly adopt a much more >> equity-friendly discourse than even the evening before >> (https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=4_11iIELdfc). So, no, probably that >> one strike, or that one social media that may have made it possible, >> won't change the system. But they seem to incrementally add to something, don't they? >> >> Alfredo Jornet >> ________________________________ >> New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and >> intransitive dimensions" >> Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> on behalf of Andy Blunden >> >> Sent: 12 March 2018 06:39 >> To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian >> schools >> >> That headline does not exist, but is it this: >> >> https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/07/us/parkland-students-social-media.h >> tml >> >> Andy >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> Andy Blunden >> ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm >> On 12/03/2018 4:02 PM, mike cole wrote: >>> Michael - I have been trying to find a digital copy of a story in >>> today's NY Times titled "the social media warriors of parkland." For >>> some reason >> it >>> is not visible on the digital version.... yet. Maybe someone out >>> there in xmca-land can find it for us? I will check again in the >>> morning to see if it appears. >>> It seems especially relevant to Monica and Fernando's article, >>> and >> to >>> David's comment that " it is very hard for me to pinpoint any >>> actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made >> possible by >>> Facebook." The voices and forms of speaking used by the students >>> was >> not, >>> so far as I could tell, the source of data. There are no quotations >>> of >> any >>> students speaking differently. I assumed that this article was about >>> collective action. >>> Monica and Fernando - I confess I had difficulty following parts of >>> the article, perhaps because I am a very seldom user of Facebook. In >>> particular, I had difficulty understanding Figure 3. Were the >>> people who started M1 also those who started M2-M3? ( " Once >>> students achieved the object of the activity?in the first case, to >>> avoid the closure of the schools?they focused the protests on another object"). >>> >>> Did the M4 people get the idea from M1 through a FB connection form M1? >> Did >>> you get any sense of what distinguished pages that got a few hundred >> versus >>> 10,000 reactions? >>> >>> Harshad - Did you think the article failed to consider social issues? >> There >>> is no information about you on the xmca membership page, so it is >>> difficult to know from what part of the world you are writing. >>> Unless I miss my guess, some people will wonder at your use of the >>> word "man" where the local practice might put "humankind" or some >>> other gender inclusive term. >>> >>> David - Daylight saving time tonight so I find myself "working >>> late." It got me to wondering how many people live in Seoul. A lot, it turns out. >>> About 9-10 million. That got me to wondering about how much faster >>> all those people would be getting around on horses with all the >>> horse plops >> to >>> clamber over. And all that hay to haul into town for the morning >>> rush hour. :-) >>> >>> mike >>> >>> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Glassman, Michael >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi David, >>>> >>>> I'm sure those meddling kids won't come back on your lawn any time soon. >>>> >>>> But really, the article did not say Facebook is a new type of >> technology. >>>> I believe they said that it's a form of human-technology >>>> interaction and suggested perhaps social media was a new type of >>>> human-technology interaction. I don't agree with this phrasing. I >>>> tend to think of >> Facebook >>>> more as an application of Internet technology - but either way >>>> Facebook >> is >>>> just a form or an application. Is the internetworking of computer, >>>> radio and satellite communication an enormous step forward in how >>>> humans communicate. I think so - it's really extraordinary on a >>>> number of >> levels >>>> but that's really not the conversation for this article. >>>> >>>> I do think the authors have done an analysis that is interesting >>>> and possibly important, especially when one considers what is >>>> currently >> going >>>> on down in Parkland (some might be happy to know that, at least >>>> from >> what I >>>> have read, Facebook isn't dominant or even that important for these >>>> students. Adults have been using it more for larger organizational >> events >>>> like the March 14 walkout and the March 24 march). I have read >>>> some articles on organizing on online forums (and actually wrote a >>>> not very >> good >>>> one a few years back). Most of them are communications based an >>>> don't >> have >>>> strong theoretical underpinning which is why I think this article >>>> might >> be >>>> an important step forward. >>>> >>>> I think the idea of using third generation activity theory might be >>>> a >> good >>>> idea for this type of analysis. I myself have seen ties between the >>>> trialogical approach being developed by Hakkareinan and Paavola and >> what is >>>> going on down in Parkland. The students are creating their own >>>> projects >> and >>>> then getting the larger community to buy in to and support what >>>> they are doing which is in turn changing the quality of their >>>> activities. I have >> my >>>> own ideas on why this is suddenly happening and direct >>>> communication technologies like Twitter and texting (which seem >>>> primary vehicles) are only part of it. >>>> >>>> Anyway, this particular article I think is really timely and should >>>> give us a lot to think about. >>>> >>>> Michael >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >>>> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg >>>> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2018 6:03 PM >>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian >> schools >>>> So in the fifteenth century, Gutenberg exapted extant technology >>>> already widely available in China and published a single text using >>>> moveable >> type >>>> which started a profound intellectual, cultural, and social >>>> revolution whose effects we still feel today: the rise of >>>> Protestantism, the Counter-Reformation in, among other places, >>>> Brazil, the Wars of >> Religion in >>>> France, the vicissitudes of a multii-confessional (political) State >>>> and ultimately those of a multi-confessional (psychological) state, >>>> In the twentieth century, Ford similarly exapted extant technology, >>>> this time nearly two millenia later than China, and mass-produced >>>> automobiles >> using >>>> Taylorism, forcing everybody to buy an identical product with >>>> interchangeable parts made by factories with interchangeable workers. >>>> The automobile "revolution" did not even give us new roads, and in >>>> Seoul today traffic moves notably slower than it would on >>>> horseback. Clearly, there are some forms of technology that are >>>> actually semiogenic--and >> others >>>> which merely circulate capital at a faster rate and actually slow >>>> the movement of people and new ideas. >>>> >>>> So my question is very simple. How do we know that "Facebook" >>>> (which as the name implies was originally designed to help Harvard >>>> freshmen decide which classmates were sufficiently hot to "like") >>>> is really one of the former technologies?.There are very clear >>>> signs , beyond the obvious >> ones >>>> surrounding the American origins, that it belongs to the latter >> category, >>>> and not a few of them appear in this very article. First of all, >>>> the authors are honest enough to associate Facebook with >>>> reactionary, xenophobic, populist movements like the clowns who run the "Five Stars" >>>> movement in Italy. Second, on the very first page, the authors try >>>> but >> do >>>> not really seem to be able to distinguish between the "post first >>>> and organize later" technologies of Occupy Wall Street and the use >>>> of social media by the four movements in the article (including one >>>> actually >> called >>>> "Occupy Everything"). And thirdly, it is very hard for me to >>>> pinpoint >> any >>>> actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made >> possible >>>> by Facebook. If anything, Facebook seems to narrow semiogenic power >>>> to a single consumer/computer menu. Ford said, you can get a Model >>>> A in any color you like so long as it's black. Facebook tells us >>>> the same thing, >> but >>>> makes the verb "like" intransitive. >>>> >>>> David Kellogg >>>> Sangmyung University >>>> >>>> Recent Article in *Early Years* >>>> >>>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, >>>> and the child?s first interrogatives >>> doi/full/10.1080/09575146.2018.1431874> >>>> >>>> Free e-print available at: >>>> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 7:30 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < >> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dear xmca'ers, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> it is (bit over) due time for introducing the article for >>>>> discussion from MCA's 2018 Issue 1, before Issue 2 comes upon us soon. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The selected article, by Monica Ferreira Lemos and Fernando >>>>> Rezende da Cunha J?nior, is about two topics that were thematised >>>>> in the last ISCAR congress and that ought to be of much relevance >>>>> to current and future CHAT-related research: Social media and >>>>> social movements. In particular, the article examines how students >>>>> use social media for the organization and development of 4 social movements in Brazil. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The article is attached and is Free access during the discussion >> period. >>>>> It can be accessed free in the following link: >>>>> >>>>> https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2017.1379823 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The authors have kindly agreed to participate in the discussion >>>>> and they will be introducing themselves soon. I hope you will >>>>> find the article interesting and please don't be shy to share >>>>> anything you might have learned reading it, anything you might >>>>> wonder about it or that you would like see discussed. Having >>>>> authors engage in dialogue is a great opportunity that this >>>>> community offers and that makes sense the most when many of you participate. Good reading! >>>>> >>>>> ? >>>>> >>>>> Alfredo Jornet >>>>> >>>>> New article in *Design Studies* "Imagning Design: Transitive and >>>>> intransitive dimensions" >>>>> Free print available: >>>>> https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr >>>>> >> > From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Wed Mar 14 01:53:01 2018 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2018 08:53:01 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools In-Reply-To: <3c6562c0-b165-6147-b2b3-a896b647295c@marxists.org> References: <1520721034406.59651@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF245E@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <0bdd10ce-7411-8083-533f-44fcfb50e928@marxists.org> <1520858083490.87795@iped.uio.no> <2017557051.756650.1520967771201@mail.yahoo.com> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF28C5@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu>, <3c6562c0-b165-6147-b2b3-a896b647295c@marxists.org> Message-ID: <1521017581685.23396@iped.uio.no> Many people will have today found out about Stephen Hawking's passing by reading facebook, which is the first site many visit. Hawking had a facebook profile. His last post was in fact an activist one in the Organizer's spirit that Andy describes, demanding and encouraging others to sign for "Urgent legal action for our NHS". https://www.facebook.com/stephenhawking/ Glad to have Monica and Fernando joining the conversation, Alfredo Jornet ________________________________ New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and intransitive dimensions" Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Andy Blunden Sent: 14 March 2018 00:59 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools During the anti-Vietnam War movement there were certainly actions by school children. In Australia, so I'm sure it would have happened in the US. But in that case the schoolkids were joining what was already a mass movement. The anti-gun movement obviously exists in the US, among adults, but I get the impression that in both the USD & Brazil, it is schoolkid initiated. Obviously very many of the kids have the moral support and encouragement of their own parents and many teachers and principals. But that is not the same as actually setting dates and places, informing relevant people, drafts up letters and statements, etc., etc. Every protest in modern times (20th century) happens thanks to the tireless work of a certain social type called the Organiser. The Organiser maintains a two-inch think address book, kept up to date by regular calls relevant to a variety of campaigns and utilised in the latest protest. The Organiser hardly ever sleeps, they really *work* at it, and you receive multiple phone calls reminding you when to be where and to bring this or that or your friend along too. They also know their subject and have mastered all the facts and rhetoric and pester all the media. Whatever else it is, FaceBook enables everyone to be an Organiser. The downside is that it has made people lazy; poster runs, where a group of activists run around the business areas at night sticking up posters, have almost disappeared, as have the phone trees which organised the Peace Movement. But we all know the story of redundant skills Although I always resist simplistic maxims like "the transformation of quantity into quality" it really seems reasonable to me that social media plus Trump plus yet another mass murder cheered on by the NRA and their political representatives can, at a certain point, exceed boiling point. I look forward with interest to how it goes tomorrow. And how a new generation handles themselves when they go out to work and vote. Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm On 14/03/2018 10:25 AM, Glassman, Michael wrote: > Hello Fernando, > > What I find really interesting is this phrase, > > "it was the first time in Brazilian history that students (who were not supposed to interfere) interfered in a political decision." > > Mike alluded to this in his message as well about Parkland. I find it fascinating that the same type of movement among the same age group is occurring simultaneously in the U.S. and in Brazil. Yet I believe these students have no contact with each other. And there is nobody teaching them. There are no experts. They are learning in a way that challenges many of our belief systems about learning (unless they are machines). > > Tomorrow is going to be a very interesting day in the U.S. As part of the anti-gun movement students all over the country are going to be walking out of school and staying out for seventeen minutes. In some places schools will support this. In some places it just won't happen. But I am growing more fearful of what happens if there is a flashpoint between the schools and the students. I wonder if some schools will try and chain the doors. I wonder if some schools will lock the students out (this already happened at one school putting students in danger). I wonder if police will decide to have a presence. This will be the first time students (at least high schoolers) en masse decided to challenge the authority of the state. > > Michael > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Fernando Cunha > Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 3:03 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity ; mike cole > Cc: Lemos, Monica > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools > > Dear all, > I really appreciate the discussion so far, and I liked the way some of you used some metaphors. It was far from our intention to reinvent the wheel or to use flint stones to light fire. What I think it is important is that there is no "if" in human history, and we are where we are because we transform the places we live, as well as the tools we use. We can for sure ride horses in the cities, but the horses would sweat so much (considering the asphalt roads), that in a matter of hours they would die. > > Since life is forward, we tried to show in our article a small part of what the movements organized by the students were.It is important to highlight, that despite people that were not in favor of protests (including some students!), it was the first time in Brazilian history that students (who were not supposed to interfere) interfered in a political decision. And they did so not only by using Facebook. As we mention in our paper, Facebook is one aspect of the protests, and we considered it as a mediational communicative tool. As I mentioned before in this answer, we as human beings use tools that are available, reshape them, and sometimes use them for a purpose that is completely different from the original idea. > I myself am a secondary education teacher, and I am also a researcher because I am a secondary education teacher. We may have different points of view when you research something as an outsider, and when you participate (not as an ethnographer), but as a subject of the group. In my humble opinion, we are still trying to conceptualize (and stabilize) things that move faster than we can handle as scientists, or to compare contexts that cannot be compared. > > I am looking forward to your reactions. > Best regards, > > > __________________________Fernando R. Cunha J?nior, PhD. > > http://fernandorcjr.wordpress.com > > > Em segunda-feira, 12 de mar?o de 2018 21:05:34 BRT, mike cole escreveu: > > Alfredo et al > > I read this message before reading the prior one. You are making the point I was trying to make regarding discussion of the paper. > In our everyday lives we are experiencing a change in the wind (to use a metaphor that Dylan made famous at another such time). > HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS ARE DISRUPTING THINGS AS USUAL for the first time in my life. Call it 65 years. > > And we are academics and some of us are are paid to theorize such matters. > To theorize the social organization of society was Hugh's description of the social sciences. In most American Universities, Psychology (cap P) is located in the social sciences. > Do we approach the problem from "below" as psychologists? Do we approach it from "above" as sociologists and political scientists? > Can you link the Leontiev who writes about the nature of human consciousness, psychologically speaking and conducts experiments in the laboratory that look for all the world like what goes on in my psychology department, AND as someone who can help understand the growth of social movements? This may also be a way to address and understanding of the overlap and variability in the ideas of Vygotsky and Friere. > > Monica and Fernando must be reeling from all the complicated English we are spewing. I look forward to the discussion. > > Still worrying about Figure 3! I know I need to be able to interpret it but I am doing a lousy job. > > mike > > > On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 5:34 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > wrote: > >> Thanks for finding and sharing the link, Andy, and thanks Michael and >> Mike for bringing the absolutely relevant connection to Parklands. >> >> There was not so long ago a discussion here as well as in a couple of >> articles in MCA about how crises leading to development most often >> result from quantitative increments that lead to qualitative leaps >> such that new forms of organization emerge from previous ones. So, >> David, I don't see why increments in the pace of circulation (e.g., of >> information) would not be expected to bring with them changes in the >> organisation of the whole economy system. I would not say that social >> media is just bringing a lot more of the same, just as I would not a >> priori reject the possibility that bringing a lot more of the same >> might not end up bringing new qualitative forms of communicating. The >> observation that "like" is intransitive in Facebook is interesting; >> but to me it needs to be put in its larger context of use. And so, are >> we analysing Facebook as a grammar closed up in itself, or as one more chain in a larger grammar of possible cooperation? >> >> I am myself concerned that Social Media like Facebook may be >> amplifying dichotomical thinking beyond the innocuous and often >> way-to-verbose essays we academics enjoy entertaining with much more >> complex verbal forms than Facebook's intransitive "likes", only that >> the confrontations now seem to be moving to family's dinner tables, >> quarrels among protesters in public squares, or previously unheard of >> incarcerations for publishing tweets and rap songs that critique the >> crown in a supposedly modern democracy like Spain (e.g.: >> http://cadenaser.com/ser/2018/02/20/tribunales/1519135083_ >> 106543.html). But the article here discussed also shows that there are >> forms of organization that these technologies are affording that may >> bring more positive changes, like the case again in Spain of March 8th >> women's strike, the extent of which no politician or journalist had >> anticipated and which led the government to quickly adopt a much more >> equity-friendly discourse than even the evening before >> (https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=4_11iIELdfc). So, no, probably that >> one strike, or that one social media that may have made it possible, >> won't change the system. But they seem to incrementally add to something, don't they? >> >> Alfredo Jornet >> ________________________________ >> New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and >> intransitive dimensions" >> Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> on behalf of Andy Blunden >> >> Sent: 12 March 2018 06:39 >> To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian >> schools >> >> That headline does not exist, but is it this: >> >> https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/07/us/parkland-students-social-media.h >> tml >> >> Andy >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> Andy Blunden >> ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm >> On 12/03/2018 4:02 PM, mike cole wrote: >>> Michael - I have been trying to find a digital copy of a story in >>> today's NY Times titled "the social media warriors of parkland." For >>> some reason >> it >>> is not visible on the digital version.... yet. Maybe someone out >>> there in xmca-land can find it for us? I will check again in the >>> morning to see if it appears. >>> It seems especially relevant to Monica and Fernando's article, >>> and >> to >>> David's comment that " it is very hard for me to pinpoint any >>> actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made >> possible by >>> Facebook." The voices and forms of speaking used by the students >>> was >> not, >>> so far as I could tell, the source of data. There are no quotations >>> of >> any >>> students speaking differently. I assumed that this article was about >>> collective action. >>> Monica and Fernando - I confess I had difficulty following parts of >>> the article, perhaps because I am a very seldom user of Facebook. In >>> particular, I had difficulty understanding Figure 3. Were the >>> people who started M1 also those who started M2-M3? ( " Once >>> students achieved the object of the activity?in the first case, to >>> avoid the closure of the schools?they focused the protests on another object"). >>> >>> Did the M4 people get the idea from M1 through a FB connection form M1? >> Did >>> you get any sense of what distinguished pages that got a few hundred >> versus >>> 10,000 reactions? >>> >>> Harshad - Did you think the article failed to consider social issues? >> There >>> is no information about you on the xmca membership page, so it is >>> difficult to know from what part of the world you are writing. >>> Unless I miss my guess, some people will wonder at your use of the >>> word "man" where the local practice might put "humankind" or some >>> other gender inclusive term. >>> >>> David - Daylight saving time tonight so I find myself "working >>> late." It got me to wondering how many people live in Seoul. A lot, it turns out. >>> About 9-10 million. That got me to wondering about how much faster >>> all those people would be getting around on horses with all the >>> horse plops >> to >>> clamber over. And all that hay to haul into town for the morning >>> rush hour. :-) >>> >>> mike >>> >>> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Glassman, Michael >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi David, >>>> >>>> I'm sure those meddling kids won't come back on your lawn any time soon. >>>> >>>> But really, the article did not say Facebook is a new type of >> technology. >>>> I believe they said that it's a form of human-technology >>>> interaction and suggested perhaps social media was a new type of >>>> human-technology interaction. I don't agree with this phrasing. I >>>> tend to think of >> Facebook >>>> more as an application of Internet technology - but either way >>>> Facebook >> is >>>> just a form or an application. Is the internetworking of computer, >>>> radio and satellite communication an enormous step forward in how >>>> humans communicate. I think so - it's really extraordinary on a >>>> number of >> levels >>>> but that's really not the conversation for this article. >>>> >>>> I do think the authors have done an analysis that is interesting >>>> and possibly important, especially when one considers what is >>>> currently >> going >>>> on down in Parkland (some might be happy to know that, at least >>>> from >> what I >>>> have read, Facebook isn't dominant or even that important for these >>>> students. Adults have been using it more for larger organizational >> events >>>> like the March 14 walkout and the March 24 march). I have read >>>> some articles on organizing on online forums (and actually wrote a >>>> not very >> good >>>> one a few years back). Most of them are communications based an >>>> don't >> have >>>> strong theoretical underpinning which is why I think this article >>>> might >> be >>>> an important step forward. >>>> >>>> I think the idea of using third generation activity theory might be >>>> a >> good >>>> idea for this type of analysis. I myself have seen ties between the >>>> trialogical approach being developed by Hakkareinan and Paavola and >> what is >>>> going on down in Parkland. The students are creating their own >>>> projects >> and >>>> then getting the larger community to buy in to and support what >>>> they are doing which is in turn changing the quality of their >>>> activities. I have >> my >>>> own ideas on why this is suddenly happening and direct >>>> communication technologies like Twitter and texting (which seem >>>> primary vehicles) are only part of it. >>>> >>>> Anyway, this particular article I think is really timely and should >>>> give us a lot to think about. >>>> >>>> Michael >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >>>> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg >>>> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2018 6:03 PM >>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian >> schools >>>> So in the fifteenth century, Gutenberg exapted extant technology >>>> already widely available in China and published a single text using >>>> moveable >> type >>>> which started a profound intellectual, cultural, and social >>>> revolution whose effects we still feel today: the rise of >>>> Protestantism, the Counter-Reformation in, among other places, >>>> Brazil, the Wars of >> Religion in >>>> France, the vicissitudes of a multii-confessional (political) State >>>> and ultimately those of a multi-confessional (psychological) state, >>>> In the twentieth century, Ford similarly exapted extant technology, >>>> this time nearly two millenia later than China, and mass-produced >>>> automobiles >> using >>>> Taylorism, forcing everybody to buy an identical product with >>>> interchangeable parts made by factories with interchangeable workers. >>>> The automobile "revolution" did not even give us new roads, and in >>>> Seoul today traffic moves notably slower than it would on >>>> horseback. Clearly, there are some forms of technology that are >>>> actually semiogenic--and >> others >>>> which merely circulate capital at a faster rate and actually slow >>>> the movement of people and new ideas. >>>> >>>> So my question is very simple. How do we know that "Facebook" >>>> (which as the name implies was originally designed to help Harvard >>>> freshmen decide which classmates were sufficiently hot to "like") >>>> is really one of the former technologies?.There are very clear >>>> signs , beyond the obvious >> ones >>>> surrounding the American origins, that it belongs to the latter >> category, >>>> and not a few of them appear in this very article. First of all, >>>> the authors are honest enough to associate Facebook with >>>> reactionary, xenophobic, populist movements like the clowns who run the "Five Stars" >>>> movement in Italy. Second, on the very first page, the authors try >>>> but >> do >>>> not really seem to be able to distinguish between the "post first >>>> and organize later" technologies of Occupy Wall Street and the use >>>> of social media by the four movements in the article (including one >>>> actually >> called >>>> "Occupy Everything"). And thirdly, it is very hard for me to >>>> pinpoint >> any >>>> actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made >> possible >>>> by Facebook. If anything, Facebook seems to narrow semiogenic power >>>> to a single consumer/computer menu. Ford said, you can get a Model >>>> A in any color you like so long as it's black. Facebook tells us >>>> the same thing, >> but >>>> makes the verb "like" intransitive. >>>> >>>> David Kellogg >>>> Sangmyung University >>>> >>>> Recent Article in *Early Years* >>>> >>>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, >>>> and the child?s first interrogatives >>> doi/full/10.1080/09575146.2018.1431874> >>>> >>>> Free e-print available at: >>>> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 7:30 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < >> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dear xmca'ers, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> it is (bit over) due time for introducing the article for >>>>> discussion from MCA's 2018 Issue 1, before Issue 2 comes upon us soon. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The selected article, by Monica Ferreira Lemos and Fernando >>>>> Rezende da Cunha J?nior, is about two topics that were thematised >>>>> in the last ISCAR congress and that ought to be of much relevance >>>>> to current and future CHAT-related research: Social media and >>>>> social movements. In particular, the article examines how students >>>>> use social media for the organization and development of 4 social movements in Brazil. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The article is attached and is Free access during the discussion >> period. >>>>> It can be accessed free in the following link: >>>>> >>>>> https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2017.1379823 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The authors have kindly agreed to participate in the discussion >>>>> and they will be introducing themselves soon. I hope you will >>>>> find the article interesting and please don't be shy to share >>>>> anything you might have learned reading it, anything you might >>>>> wonder about it or that you would like see discussed. Having >>>>> authors engage in dialogue is a great opportunity that this >>>>> community offers and that makes sense the most when many of you participate. Good reading! >>>>> >>>>> ? >>>>> >>>>> Alfredo Jornet >>>>> >>>>> New article in *Design Studies* "Imagning Design: Transitive and >>>>> intransitive dimensions" >>>>> Free print available: >>>>> https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr >>>>> >> > From haydizulfei@rocketmail.com Wed Mar 14 03:17:12 2018 From: haydizulfei@rocketmail.com (Haydi Zulfei) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2018 10:17:12 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools In-Reply-To: <1521017581685.23396@iped.uio.no> References: <1520721034406.59651@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF245E@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <0bdd10ce-7411-8083-533f-44fcfb50e928@marxists.org> <1520858083490.87795@iped.uio.no> <2017557051.756650.1520967771201@mail.yahoo.com> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF28C5@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <3c6562c0-b165-6147-b2b3-a896b647295c@marxists.org> <1521017581685.23396@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: <2032751051.311204.1521022632704@mail.yahoo.com> Someone has seen the bad side of it. Authoritarian Capitalism in the Age of Social Media - Christian Fuchs | | | | | | | | | | | Authoritarian Capitalism in the Age of Social Media - Christian Fuchs 'We need an Internet and a world that serve the many, not the few.' Christian Fuchs on the plethora of authorita... | | | Haydi On Wednesday, March 14, 2018, 12:26:09 PM GMT+3:30, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: Many people will have today found out about Stephen Hawking's passing by reading facebook, which is the first site many visit. Hawking had a facebook profile. His last post was in fact an activist one in the Organizer's spirit that Andy describes, demanding and encouraging others to sign for "Urgent legal action for our NHS". https://www.facebook.com/stephenhawking/ Glad to have Monica and Fernando joining the conversation, Alfredo Jornet ________________________________ New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and intransitive dimensions" Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Andy Blunden Sent: 14 March 2018 00:59 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools During the anti-Vietnam War movement there were certainly actions by school children. In Australia, so I'm sure it would have happened in the US. But in that case the schoolkids were joining what was already a mass movement. The anti-gun movement obviously exists in the US, among adults, but I get the impression that in both the USD & Brazil, it is schoolkid initiated. Obviously very many of the kids have the moral support and encouragement of their own parents and many teachers and principals. But that is not the same as actually setting dates and places, informing relevant people, drafts up letters and statements, etc., etc. Every protest in modern times (20th century) happens thanks to the tireless work of a certain social type called the Organiser. The Organiser maintains a two-inch think address book, kept up to date by regular calls relevant to a variety of campaigns and utilised in the latest protest. The Organiser hardly ever sleeps, they really *work* at it, and you receive multiple phone calls reminding you when to be where and to bring this or that or your friend along too. They also know their subject and have mastered all the facts and rhetoric and pester all the media. Whatever else it is, FaceBook enables everyone to be an Organiser. The downside is that it has made people lazy; poster runs, where a group of activists run around the business areas at night sticking up posters, have almost disappeared, as have the phone trees which organised the Peace Movement. But we all know the story of redundant skills Although I always resist simplistic maxims like "the transformation of quantity into quality" it really seems reasonable to me that social media plus Trump plus yet another mass murder cheered on by the NRA and their political representatives can, at a certain point, exceed boiling point. I look forward with interest to how it goes tomorrow. And how a new generation handles themselves when they go out to work and vote. Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm On 14/03/2018 10:25 AM, Glassman, Michael wrote: > Hello Fernando, > > What I find really interesting is this phrase, > > "it was the first time in Brazilian history that students (who were not supposed to interfere) interfered in a political decision." > > Mike alluded to this in his message as well about Parkland.? I find it fascinating that the same type of movement among the same age group is occurring simultaneously in the U.S. and in Brazil. Yet I believe these students have no contact with each other. And there is nobody teaching them. There are no experts.? They are learning in a way that challenges many of our belief systems about learning (unless they are machines). > > Tomorrow is going to be a very interesting day in the U.S.? As part of the anti-gun movement students all over the country are going to be walking out of school and staying out for seventeen minutes.? In some places schools will support this. In some places it just won't happen.? But I am growing more fearful of what happens if there is a flashpoint between the schools and the students.? I wonder if some schools will try and chain the doors.? I wonder if some schools will lock the students out (this already happened at one school putting students in danger).? I wonder if police will decide to have a presence.? This will be the first time students (at least high schoolers) en masse decided to challenge the authority of the state. > > Michael > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Fernando Cunha > Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 3:03 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity ; mike cole > Cc: Lemos, Monica > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools > > Dear all, > I really appreciate the discussion so far, and I liked the way some of you used some metaphors. It was far from our intention to reinvent the wheel or to use flint stones to light fire. What I think it is important is that there is no "if" in human history, and we are where we are because we transform the places we live, as well as the tools we use. We can for sure ride horses in the cities, but the horses would sweat so much (considering the asphalt roads), that in a matter of hours they would die. > > Since life is forward, we tried to show in our article a small part of what the movements organized by the students were.It is important to highlight, that despite people that were not in favor of protests (including some students!), it was the first time in Brazilian history that students (who were not supposed to interfere) interfered in a political decision. And they did so not only by using Facebook. As we mention in our paper, Facebook is one aspect of the protests, and we considered it as a mediational communicative tool. As I mentioned before in this answer, we as human beings use tools that are available, reshape them, and sometimes use them for a purpose that is completely different from the original idea. > I myself am a secondary education teacher, and I am also a researcher because I am a secondary education teacher. We may have different points of view when you research something as an outsider, and when you participate (not as an ethnographer), but as a subject of the group. In my humble opinion, we are still trying to conceptualize (and stabilize) things that move faster than we can handle as scientists, or to compare contexts that cannot be compared. > > I am looking forward to your reactions. > Best regards, > > > __________________________Fernando R. Cunha J?nior, PhD. > > http://fernandorcjr.wordpress.com > > >? ? Em segunda-feira, 12 de mar?o de 2018 21:05:34 BRT, mike cole escreveu: > >? Alfredo et al > > I read this message before reading the prior one. You are making the point I was trying to make regarding discussion of the paper. > In our everyday lives we are experiencing a change in the wind (to use a metaphor that Dylan made famous at another such time). > HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS ARE DISRUPTING THINGS AS USUAL for the first time in my life. Call it 65 years. > > And we are academics and some of us are are paid to theorize such matters. > To theorize the social organization of society was Hugh's description of the social sciences. In most American Universities, Psychology (cap P) is located in the social sciences. > Do we approach the problem from "below" as psychologists? Do we approach it from "above" as sociologists and political scientists? > Can you link the Leontiev who writes about the nature of human consciousness, psychologically speaking and conducts experiments in the laboratory that look for all the world like what goes on in my psychology department, AND as someone who can help understand the growth of social movements? This may also be a way to address and understanding of the overlap and variability in the ideas of Vygotsky and Friere. > > Monica and Fernando must be reeling from all the complicated English we are spewing. I look forward to the discussion. > > Still worrying about Figure 3! I know I need to be able to interpret it but I am doing a lousy job. > > mike > > > On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 5:34 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > wrote: > >> Thanks for finding and sharing the link, Andy, and thanks Michael and >> Mike for bringing the absolutely relevant connection to Parklands. >> >> There was not so long ago a discussion here as well as in a couple of >> articles in MCA about how crises leading to development most often >> result from quantitative increments that lead to qualitative leaps >> such that new forms of organization emerge from previous ones. So, >> David, I don't see why increments in the pace of circulation (e.g., of >> information) would not be expected to bring with them changes in the >> organisation of the whole economy system. I would not say that social >> media is just bringing a lot more of the same, just as I would not a >> priori reject the possibility that bringing a lot more of the same >> might not end up bringing new qualitative forms of communicating. The >> observation that "like" is intransitive in Facebook is interesting; >> but to me it needs to be put in its larger context of use. And so, are >> we analysing Facebook as a grammar closed up in itself, or as one more chain in a larger grammar of possible cooperation? >> >> I am myself concerned that Social Media like Facebook may be >> amplifying dichotomical thinking beyond the innocuous and often >> way-to-verbose essays we academics enjoy entertaining with much more >> complex verbal forms than Facebook's intransitive "likes", only that >> the confrontations now seem to be moving to family's dinner tables, >> quarrels among protesters in public squares, or previously unheard of >> incarcerations for publishing tweets and rap songs that critique the >> crown in a supposedly modern democracy like Spain (e.g.: >> http://cadenaser.com/ser/2018/02/20/tribunales/1519135083_ >> 106543.html). But the article here discussed also shows that there are >> forms of organization that these technologies are affording that may >> bring more positive changes, like the case again in Spain of March 8th >> women's strike, the extent of which no politician or journalist had >> anticipated and which led the government to quickly adopt a much more >> equity-friendly discourse than even the evening before >> (https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=4_11iIELdfc). So, no, probably that >> one strike, or that one social media that may have made it possible, >> won't change the system. But they seem to incrementally add to something, don't they? >> >> Alfredo Jornet >> ________________________________ >> New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and >> intransitive dimensions" >> Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> on behalf of Andy Blunden >> >> Sent: 12 March 2018 06:39 >> To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian >> schools >> >> That headline does not exist, but is it this: >> >> https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/07/us/parkland-students-social-media.h >> tml >> >> Andy >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> Andy Blunden >> ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm >> On 12/03/2018 4:02 PM, mike cole wrote: >>> Michael - I have been trying to find a digital copy of a story in >>> today's NY Times titled "the social media warriors of parkland." For >>> some reason >> it >>> is not visible on the digital version.... yet. Maybe someone out >>> there in? xmca-land can find it for us? I will check again? in the >>> morning to see if it appears. >>>? ? ? It seems especially relevant to Monica and Fernando's article, >>> and >> to >>> David's comment that "? it is very hard for me to pinpoint any >>> actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made >> possible by >>> Facebook."? The voices and forms of speaking used by the students >>> was >> not, >>> so far as I could tell, the source of data. There are no quotations >>> of >> any >>> students speaking differently. I assumed that this article was about >>> collective action. >>> Monica and Fernando - I confess I had difficulty following parts of >>> the article, perhaps because I am a very seldom user of Facebook. In >>> particular, I had difficulty understanding Figure 3.? Were the >>> people who started M1 also those who started M2-M3? ( " Once >>> students achieved the object of the activity?in the first case, to >>> avoid the closure of the schools?they focused the protests on another object"). >>> >>> Did the M4 people get the idea from M1 through a FB connection form M1? >> Did >>> you get any sense of what distinguished pages that got a few hundred >> versus >>> 10,000 reactions? >>> >>> Harshad - Did you think the article failed to consider social issues? >> There >>> is no information about you on the xmca membership page, so it is >>> difficult to know from what part of the world you are writing. >>> Unless I miss my guess, some people will wonder at your use of the >>> word "man" where the local practice might put "humankind" or some >>> other gender inclusive term. >>> >>> David - Daylight saving time tonight so I find myself "working >>> late."? It got me to wondering how many people live in Seoul. A lot, it turns out. >>> About 9-10 million. That got me to wondering about how much faster >>> all those people would be getting around on horses with all the >>> horse plops >> to >>> clamber over. And all that hay to haul into town for the morning >>> rush hour.? :-) >>> >>> mike >>> >>> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Glassman, Michael >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi David, >>>> >>>> I'm sure those meddling kids won't come back on your lawn any time soon. >>>> >>>> But really, the article did not say Facebook is a new type of >> technology. >>>> I believe they said that it's a form of human-technology >>>> interaction and suggested perhaps social media was a new type of >>>> human-technology interaction.? I don't agree with this phrasing. I >>>> tend to think of >> Facebook >>>> more as an application of Internet technology - but either way >>>> Facebook >> is >>>> just a form or an application. Is the internetworking of computer, >>>> radio and satellite communication an enormous step forward in how >>>> humans communicate.? I think so - it's really extraordinary on a >>>> number of >> levels >>>> but that's really not the conversation for this article. >>>> >>>> I do think the authors have done an analysis that is interesting >>>> and possibly important, especially when one considers what is >>>> currently >> going >>>> on down in Parkland (some might be happy to know that, at least >>>> from >> what I >>>> have read, Facebook isn't dominant or even that important for these >>>> students. Adults have been using it more for larger organizational >> events >>>> like the March 14 walkout and the March 24 march).? I have read >>>> some articles on organizing on online forums (and actually wrote a >>>> not very >> good >>>> one a few years back). Most of them are communications based an >>>> don't >> have >>>> strong theoretical underpinning which is why I think this article >>>> might >> be >>>> an important step forward. >>>> >>>> I think the idea of using third generation activity theory might be >>>> a >> good >>>> idea for this type of analysis. I myself have seen ties between the >>>> trialogical approach being developed by Hakkareinan and Paavola and >> what is >>>> going on down in Parkland. The students are creating their own >>>> projects >> and >>>> then getting the larger community to buy in to and support what >>>> they are doing which is in turn changing the quality of their >>>> activities. I have >> my >>>> own ideas on why this is suddenly happening and direct >>>> communication technologies like Twitter and texting (which seem >>>> primary vehicles) are only part of it. >>>> >>>> Anyway, this particular article I think is really timely and should >>>> give us a lot to think about. >>>> >>>> Michael >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >>>> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg >>>> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2018 6:03 PM >>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian >> schools >>>> So in the fifteenth century, Gutenberg exapted extant technology >>>> already widely available in China and published a single text using >>>> moveable >> type >>>> which started a profound intellectual, cultural, and social >>>> revolution whose effects we still feel today: the rise of >>>> Protestantism, the Counter-Reformation in, among other places, >>>> Brazil, the Wars of >> Religion in >>>> France, the vicissitudes of a multii-confessional (political) State >>>> and ultimately those of a multi-confessional (psychological) state, >>>> In the twentieth century, Ford similarly exapted extant technology, >>>> this time nearly two millenia later than China, and mass-produced >>>> automobiles >> using >>>> Taylorism, forcing everybody to buy an identical product with >>>> interchangeable parts made by factories with interchangeable workers. >>>> The automobile "revolution" did not even give us new roads, and in >>>> Seoul today traffic moves notably slower than it would on >>>> horseback. Clearly, there are some forms of technology that are >>>> actually semiogenic--and >> others >>>> which merely circulate capital at a faster rate and actually slow >>>> the movement of people and new ideas. >>>> >>>> So my question is very simple. How do we know that "Facebook" >>>> (which as the name implies was originally designed to help Harvard >>>> freshmen decide which classmates were sufficiently hot to "like") >>>> is really one of the former technologies?.There are very clear >>>> signs , beyond the obvious >> ones >>>> surrounding the American origins, that it belongs to the latter >> category, >>>> and not a few of them appear in this very article. First of all, >>>> the authors are honest enough to associate Facebook with >>>> reactionary, xenophobic, populist movements like the clowns who run the "Five Stars" >>>> movement in Italy. Second, on the very first page, the authors try >>>> but >> do >>>> not really seem to be able to distinguish between the "post first >>>> and organize later" technologies of Occupy Wall Street and the use >>>> of social media by the four movements in the article (including one >>>> actually >> called >>>> "Occupy Everything"). And thirdly, it is very hard for me to >>>> pinpoint >> any >>>> actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made >> possible >>>> by Facebook. If anything, Facebook seems to narrow semiogenic power >>>> to a single consumer/computer menu. Ford said, you can get a Model >>>> A in any color you like so long as it's black. Facebook tells us >>>> the same thing, >> but >>>> makes the verb "like" intransitive. >>>> >>>> David Kellogg >>>> Sangmyung University >>>> >>>> Recent Article in *Early Years* >>>> >>>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, >>>> and the child?s first interrogatives >>> doi/full/10.1080/09575146.2018.1431874> >>>> >>>> Free e-print available at: >>>> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 7:30 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < >> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dear xmca'ers, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> it is (bit over) due time for introducing the article for >>>>> discussion from MCA's 2018 Issue 1, before Issue 2 comes upon us soon. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The selected article, by Monica Ferreira Lemos and Fernando >>>>> Rezende da Cunha J?nior, is about two topics that were thematised >>>>> in the last ISCAR congress and that ought to be of much relevance >>>>> to current and future CHAT-related research: Social media and >>>>> social movements. In particular, the article examines how students >>>>> use social media for the organization and development of 4 social movements in Brazil. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The article is attached and is Free access during the discussion >> period. >>>>> It can be accessed free in the following link: >>>>> >>>>> https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2017.1379823 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The authors have kindly agreed to participate in the discussion >>>>> and they will be introducing themselves soon. I hope you? will >>>>> find the article interesting and please don't be shy to share >>>>> anything you might have learned reading it, anything you might >>>>> wonder about it or that you would like see discussed. Having >>>>> authors engage in dialogue is a great opportunity that this >>>>> community offers and that makes sense the most when many of you participate. Good reading! >>>>> >>>>> ? >>>>> >>>>> Alfredo Jornet >>>>> >>>>> New article in *Design Studies* "Imagning Design: Transitive and >>>>> intransitive dimensions" >>>>> Free print available: >>>>> https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr >>>>> >> > From glassman.13@osu.edu Wed Mar 14 08:55:36 2018 From: glassman.13@osu.edu (Glassman, Michael) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2018 15:55:36 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools In-Reply-To: <2017557051.756650.1520967771201@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1520721034406.59651@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF245E@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <0bdd10ce-7411-8083-533f-44fcfb50e928@marxists.org> <1520858083490.87795@iped.uio.no> <2017557051.756650.1520967771201@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF29C7@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> Fernando and Monica, This is what is happening is the United States today, https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/03/students-from-thousands-of-schools-stage-a-walkout-to-protest-gun-violence-and-honor-parkland-victims.html It is nothing less than extraordinary. Many are trying to limit this to gun violence but I wonder, based on your article, if it will soon transform into another movement. But I think it goes to show how the work you have done, if only a beginning, is really important. I feel like we have missed this in U.S. academic circles. There is what is basically an idiotic article on fake news in the most recent Science, supposed to be our flagship. I feel like we have to hit the re-set button on understanding what is going on and the role that what you call human-technology interaction is playing. I have a question for some activity theorists if they are interested in responding. In some ways what is going on does mirror an activity model, the multi-level reciprocal transformation (unless I am misunderstanding something). But as I said in an earlier message there is nobody coming in doing an intervention, the transformation itself is organic, more Dewey oriented I would say (I think maybe Friere also). Is there room for this in activity theory? Michael -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Fernando Cunha Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 3:03 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity ; mike cole Cc: Lemos, Monica Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools Dear all, I really appreciate the discussion so far, and I liked the way some of you used some metaphors. It was far from our intention to reinvent the wheel or to use flint stones to light fire. What I think it is important is that there is no "if" in human history, and we are where we are because we transform the places we live, as well as the tools we use. We can for sure ride horses in the cities, but the horses would sweat so much (considering the asphalt roads), that in a matter of hours they would die. Since life is forward, we tried to show in our article a small part of what the movements organized by the students were.It is important to highlight, that despite people that were not in favor of protests (including some students!), it was the first time in Brazilian history that students (who were not supposed to interfere) interfered in a political decision. And they did so not only by using Facebook. As we mention in our paper, Facebook is one aspect of the protests, and we considered it as a mediational communicative tool. As I mentioned before in this answer, we as human beings use tools that are available, reshape them, and sometimes use them for a purpose that is completely different from the original idea. I myself am a secondary education teacher, and I am also a researcher because I am a secondary education teacher. We may have different points of view when you research something as an outsider, and when you participate (not as an ethnographer), but as a subject of the group. In my humble opinion, we are still trying to conceptualize (and stabilize) things that move faster than we can handle as scientists, or to compare contexts that cannot be compared. ? I am looking forward to your reactions. Best regards, __________________________Fernando R. Cunha J?nior, PhD. http://fernandorcjr.wordpress.com Em segunda-feira, 12 de mar?o de 2018 21:05:34 BRT, mike cole escreveu: Alfredo et al I read this message before reading the prior one. You are making the point I was trying to make regarding discussion of the paper. In our everyday lives we are experiencing a change in the wind (to use a metaphor that Dylan made famous at another such time). HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS ARE DISRUPTING THINGS AS USUAL for the first time in my life. Call it 65 years. And we are academics and some of us are are paid to theorize such matters. To theorize the social organization of society was Hugh's description of the social sciences. In most American Universities, Psychology (cap P) is located in the social sciences. Do we approach the problem from "below" as psychologists? Do we approach it from "above" as sociologists and political scientists? Can you link the Leontiev who writes about the nature of human consciousness, psychologically speaking and conducts experiments in the laboratory that look for all the world like what goes on in my psychology department, AND as someone who can help understand the growth of social movements? This may also be a way to address and understanding of the overlap and variability in the ideas of Vygotsky and Friere. Monica and Fernando must be reeling from all the complicated English we are spewing. I look forward to the discussion. Still worrying about Figure 3! I know I need to be able to interpret it but I am doing a lousy job. mike On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 5:34 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > Thanks for finding and sharing the link, Andy, and thanks Michael and > Mike for bringing the absolutely relevant connection to Parklands. > > There was not so long ago a discussion here as well as in a couple of > articles in MCA about how crises leading to development most often > result from quantitative increments that lead to qualitative leaps > such that new forms of organization emerge from previous ones. So, > David, I don't see why increments in the pace of circulation (e.g., of > information) would not be expected to bring with them changes in the > organisation of the whole economy system. I would not say that social > media is just bringing a lot more of the same, just as I would not a > priori reject the possibility that bringing a lot more of the same > might not end up bringing new qualitative forms of communicating. The > observation that "like" is intransitive in Facebook is interesting; > but to me it needs to be put in its larger context of use. And so, are > we analysing Facebook as a grammar closed up in itself, or as one more chain in a larger grammar of possible cooperation? > > I am myself concerned that Social Media like Facebook may be > amplifying dichotomical thinking beyond the innocuous and often > way-to-verbose essays we academics enjoy entertaining with much more > complex verbal forms than Facebook's intransitive "likes", only that > the confrontations now seem to be moving to family's dinner tables, > quarrels among protesters in public squares, or previously unheard of > incarcerations for publishing tweets and rap songs that critique the > crown in a supposedly modern democracy like Spain (e.g.: > http://cadenaser.com/ser/2018/02/20/tribunales/1519135083_ > 106543.html). But the article here discussed also shows that there are > forms of organization that these technologies are affording that may > bring more positive changes, like the case again in Spain of March 8th > women's strike, the extent of which no politician or journalist had > anticipated and which led the government to quickly adopt a much more > equity-friendly discourse than even the evening before > (https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=4_11iIELdfc). So, no, probably that > one strike, or that one social media that may have made it possible, > won't change the system. But they seem to incrementally add to something, don't they? > > Alfredo Jornet > ________________________________ > New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and > intransitive dimensions" > Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > > ________________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Andy Blunden > > Sent: 12 March 2018 06:39 > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian > schools > > That headline does not exist, but is it this: > > https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/07/us/parkland-students-social-media.h > tml > > Andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > On 12/03/2018 4:02 PM, mike cole wrote: > > Michael - I have been trying to find a digital copy of a story in > > today's NY Times titled "the social media warriors of parkland." For > > some reason > it > > is not visible on the digital version.... yet. Maybe someone out > >there in xmca-land can find it for us? I will check again in the > >morning to see if it appears. > >? ? ? It seems especially relevant to Monica and Fernando's article, > >and > to > > David's comment that "? it is very hard for me to pinpoint any > > actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made > possible by > > Facebook."? The voices and forms of speaking used by the students > > was > not, > > so far as I could tell, the source of data. There are no quotations > > of > any > > students speaking differently. I assumed that this article was about > > collective action. > > Monica and Fernando - I confess I had difficulty following parts of > > the article, perhaps because I am a very seldom user of Facebook. In > > particular, I had difficulty understanding Figure 3.? Were the > > people who started M1 also those who started M2-M3? ( " Once > > students achieved the object of the activity?in the first case, to > > avoid the closure of the schools?they focused the protests on another object"). > > > > Did the M4 people get the idea from M1 through a FB connection form M1? > Did > > you get any sense of what distinguished pages that got a few hundred > versus > > 10,000 reactions? > > > > Harshad - Did you think the article failed to consider social issues? > There > > is no information about you on the xmca membership page, so it is > > difficult to know from what part of the world you are writing. > > Unless I miss my guess, some people will wonder at your use of the > > word "man" where the local practice might put "humankind" or some > > other gender inclusive term. > > > > David - Daylight saving time tonight so I find myself "working > > late."? It got me to wondering how many people live in Seoul. A lot, it turns out. > > About 9-10 million. That got me to wondering about how much faster > > all those people would be getting around on horses with all the > > horse plops > to > > clamber over. And all that hay to haul into town for the morning > > rush hour.? :-) > > > > mike > > > > On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Glassman, Michael > > > > wrote: > > > >> Hi David, > >> > >> I'm sure those meddling kids won't come back on your lawn any time soon. > >> > >> But really, the article did not say Facebook is a new type of > technology. > >> I believe they said that it's a form of human-technology > >> interaction and suggested perhaps social media was a new type of > >> human-technology interaction.? I don't agree with this phrasing. I > >> tend to think of > Facebook > >> more as an application of Internet technology - but either way > >> Facebook > is > >> just a form or an application. Is the internetworking of computer, > >> radio and satellite communication an enormous step forward in how > >> humans communicate.? I think so - it's really extraordinary on a > >> number of > levels > >> but that's really not the conversation for this article. > >> > >> I do think the authors have done an analysis that is interesting > >> and possibly important, especially when one considers what is > >> currently > going > >> on down in Parkland (some might be happy to know that, at least > >> from > what I > >> have read, Facebook isn't dominant or even that important for these > >> students. Adults have been using it more for larger organizational > events > >> like the March 14 walkout and the March 24 march).? I have read > >> some articles on organizing on online forums (and actually wrote a > >> not very > good > >> one a few years back). Most of them are communications based an > >> don't > have > >> strong theoretical underpinning which is why I think this article > >> might > be > >> an important step forward. > >> > >> I think the idea of using third generation activity theory might be > >> a > good > >> idea for this type of analysis. I myself have seen ties between the > >> trialogical approach being developed by Hakkareinan and Paavola and > what is > >> going on down in Parkland. The students are creating their own > >> projects > and > >> then getting the larger community to buy in to and support what > >> they are doing which is in turn changing the quality of their > >> activities. I have > my > >> own ideas on why this is suddenly happening and direct > >> communication technologies like Twitter and texting (which seem > >> primary vehicles) are only part of it. > >> > >> Anyway, this particular article I think is really timely and should > >> give us a lot to think about. > >> > >> Michael > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > >> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg > >> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2018 6:03 PM > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian > schools > >> > >> So in the fifteenth century, Gutenberg exapted extant technology > >> already widely available in China and published a single text using > >> moveable > type > >> which started a profound intellectual, cultural, and social > >> revolution whose effects we still feel today: the rise of > >> Protestantism, the Counter-Reformation in, among other places, > >> Brazil, the Wars of > Religion in > >> France, the vicissitudes of a multii-confessional (political) State > >> and ultimately those of a multi-confessional (psychological) state, > >> In the twentieth century, Ford similarly exapted extant technology, > >> this time nearly two millenia later than China, and mass-produced > >> automobiles > using > >> Taylorism, forcing everybody to buy an identical product with > >> interchangeable parts made by factories with interchangeable workers. > >> The automobile "revolution" did not even give us new roads, and in > >> Seoul today traffic moves notably slower than it would on > >> horseback. Clearly, there are some forms of technology that are > >> actually semiogenic--and > others > >> which merely circulate capital at a faster rate and actually slow > >> the movement of people and new ideas. > >> > >> So my question is very simple. How do we know that "Facebook" > >> (which as the name implies was originally designed to help Harvard > >> freshmen decide which classmates were sufficiently hot to "like") > >> is really one of the former technologies?.There are very clear > >> signs , beyond the obvious > ones > >> surrounding the American origins, that it belongs to the latter > category, > >> and not a few of them appear in this very article. First of all, > >> the authors are honest enough to associate Facebook with > >> reactionary, xenophobic, populist movements like the clowns who run the "Five Stars" > >> movement in Italy. Second, on the very first page, the authors try > >> but > do > >> not really seem to be able to distinguish between the "post first > >> and organize later" technologies of Occupy Wall Street and the use > >> of social media by the four movements in the article (including one > >> actually > called > >> "Occupy Everything"). And thirdly, it is very hard for me to > >> pinpoint > any > >> actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made > possible > >> by Facebook. If anything, Facebook seems to narrow semiogenic power > >> to a single consumer/computer menu. Ford said, you can get a Model > >> A in any color you like so long as it's black. Facebook tells us > >> the same thing, > but > >> makes the verb "like" intransitive. > >> > >> David Kellogg > >> Sangmyung University > >> > >> Recent Article in *Early Years* > >> > >> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, > >> and the child?s first interrogatives >> doi/full/10.1080/09575146.2018.1431874> > >> > >> Free e-print available at: > >> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full > >> > >> > >> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 7:30 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Dear xmca'ers, > >>> > >>> > >>> it is (bit over) due time for introducing the article for > >>> discussion from MCA's 2018 Issue 1, before Issue 2 comes upon us soon. > >>> > >>> > >>> The selected article, by Monica Ferreira Lemos and Fernando > >>> Rezende da Cunha J?nior, is about two topics that were thematised > >>> in the last ISCAR congress and that ought to be of much relevance > >>> to current and future CHAT-related research: Social media and > >>> social movements. In particular, the article examines how students > >>> use social media for the organization and development of 4 social movements in Brazil. > >>> > >>> > >>> The article is attached and is Free access during the discussion > period. > >>> It can be accessed free in the following link: > >>> > >>> https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2017.1379823 > >>> > >>> > >>> The authors have kindly agreed to participate in the discussion > >>> and they will be introducing themselves soon. I hope you? will > >>> find the article interesting and please don't be shy to share > >>> anything you might have learned reading it, anything you might > >>> wonder about it or that you would like see discussed. Having > >>> authors engage in dialogue is a great opportunity that this > >>> community offers and that makes sense the most when many of you participate. Good reading! > >>> > >>> ? > >>> > >>> Alfredo Jornet > >>> > >>> New article in *Design Studies* "Imagning Design: Transitive and > >>> intransitive dimensions" > >>> Free print available: > >>> https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > >>> > >> > > From monica.lemos@gmail.com Wed Mar 14 10:17:57 2018 From: monica.lemos@gmail.com (Monica Lemos) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2018 14:17:57 -0300 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools In-Reply-To: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF29C7@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> References: <1520721034406.59651@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF245E@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <0bdd10ce-7411-8083-533f-44fcfb50e928@marxists.org> <1520858083490.87795@iped.uio.no> <2017557051.756650.1520967771201@mail.yahoo.com> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF29C7@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> Message-ID: Dear all, specially Michael, Fernando and I come from a research group in Brazil, LACE, (Language and Activity in Educational Contexts) with a strong tradition on formative interventions. We rely very much on the work of Professor Maria Cec?lia Camargo Magalh?es, who has been working with the notion of Critical Collaboarite Research since the beginning of the nineties. However, in the case of our paper, as you mentioned it was a more organic form of transformation, when the movements hatched there was no space for intervention, but somehow they were a kind of intervention.and those were the tools we found would be more suitable for the analyis at that time. Indeed we still have a lot to do concerning the understanding and scrutinity of the use of social media as organic forms of transformation and I also agree that we need to re-set the button to understand the role of social media and its relation to human technology interaction. Facebook per se seems to be a form of wonderland, where everybody is pretty, every food looks tasty and everybody is perfect, even when people are "wearing" FB to show prejudice or other forms of harmful actions and that's dangerous because it may show people's intransitivity, if we can say so. At the same time, FB seems to be an old fashioned form of communication for youth and teenagers, so that during 2015 students started organizing themselves via WhatsApp, so they could be more selective and have more privacy. @ Mike- The same students involved in M1 were part of M2 and M3, and yes M4 were in connection with M1 as well as students from Paraguay, who also occupied schools and the Ministry of Education, and in Chile whose students have a historical tradition of social movements. Why? and Why now? In a global perspective it seems the world is shaking and there are lots of conservative forms of thought emerging all over the globe. At the time of the occupation in S?o Paulo, Brazil was facing the *coup d'etat, *when the country started facing a turmoil that we still don't know whwn it's ending. At the same time, I was in between Helsinki and Amsterdam. In Helsinki there were also different forms of protests and trikes going on because of the decisions of the new government, the True Finns, (Finnish friends, please correct me if I make a mistake), to dismiss people from the universities and to make changes in the educational system. And in the Netherlands, not exaclty in 2015 but nearby, there was a fear of the extreme right wing first Minister that was running elections. Therefore, such conservative movements promote different expressions of reactions in SP's case the students's occupations and many other forms of protests. More specifically in S?o Paulo, the government who has been in power for over twenty years, has a strong tradition of opening jails, and not investing in the educational system, so proposing closing down schools in a system that is already scrapped provoked the reaction of many students. Of course those movements represent a snapshot of something that is much larger, and we provide a glimpse of such a snapshot in our paper. Thank you for sharing the information about the Parkland protests, I am curious to know what it will become. I will be back later to cover other topics. Warm regards, Monica 2018-03-14 12:55 GMT-03:00 Glassman, Michael : > Fernando and Monica, > > This is what is happening is the United States today, > > https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/03/students- > from-thousands-of-schools-stage-a-walkout-to-protest- > gun-violence-and-honor-parkland-victims.html > > It is nothing less than extraordinary. Many are trying to limit this to > gun violence but I wonder, based on your article, if it will soon transform > into another movement. But I think it goes to show how the work you have > done, if only a beginning, is really important. I feel like we have missed > this in U.S. academic circles. There is what is basically an idiotic > article on fake news in the most recent Science, supposed to be our > flagship. > > I feel like we have to hit the re-set button on understanding what is > going on and the role that what you call human-technology interaction is > playing. > > I have a question for some activity theorists if they are interested in > responding. In some ways what is going on does mirror an activity model, > the multi-level reciprocal transformation (unless I am misunderstanding > something). But as I said in an earlier message there is nobody coming in > doing an intervention, the transformation itself is organic, more Dewey > oriented I would say (I think maybe Friere also). Is there room for this > in activity theory? > > Michael > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Fernando Cunha > Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 3:03 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity ; mike cole > > Cc: Lemos, Monica > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools > > Dear all, > I really appreciate the discussion so far, and I liked the way some of you > used some metaphors. It was far from our intention to reinvent the wheel or > to use flint stones to light fire. What I think it is important is that > there is no "if" in human history, and we are where we are because we > transform the places we live, as well as the tools we use. We can for sure > ride horses in the cities, but the horses would sweat so much (considering > the asphalt roads), that in a matter of hours they would die. > > Since life is forward, we tried to show in our article a small part of > what the movements organized by the students were.It is important to > highlight, that despite people that were not in favor of protests > (including some students!), it was the first time in Brazilian history that > students (who were not supposed to interfere) interfered in a political > decision. And they did so not only by using Facebook. As we mention in our > paper, Facebook is one aspect of the protests, and we considered it as a > mediational communicative tool. As I mentioned before in this answer, we as > human beings use tools that are available, reshape them, and sometimes use > them for a purpose that is completely different from the original idea. > I myself am a secondary education teacher, and I am also a researcher > because I am a secondary education teacher. We may have different points of > view when you research something as an outsider, and when you participate > (not as an ethnographer), but as a subject of the group. In my humble > opinion, we are still trying to conceptualize (and stabilize) things that > move faster than we can handle as scientists, or to compare contexts that > cannot be compared. > > I am looking forward to your reactions. > Best regards, > > > __________________________Fernando R. Cunha J?nior, PhD. > > http://fernandorcjr.wordpress.com > > > Em segunda-feira, 12 de mar?o de 2018 21:05:34 BRT, mike cole < > mcole@ucsd.edu> escreveu: > > Alfredo et al > > I read this message before reading the prior one. You are making the point > I was trying to make regarding discussion of the paper. > In our everyday lives we are experiencing a change in the wind (to use a > metaphor that Dylan made famous at another such time). > HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS ARE DISRUPTING THINGS AS USUAL for the first time in > my life. Call it 65 years. > > And we are academics and some of us are are paid to theorize such matters. > To theorize the social organization of society was Hugh's description of > the social sciences. In most American Universities, Psychology (cap P) is > located in the social sciences. > Do we approach the problem from "below" as psychologists? Do we approach > it from "above" as sociologists and political scientists? > Can you link the Leontiev who writes about the nature of human > consciousness, psychologically speaking and conducts experiments in the > laboratory that look for all the world like what goes on in my psychology > department, AND as someone who can help understand the growth of social > movements? This may also be a way to address and understanding of the > overlap and variability in the ideas of Vygotsky and Friere. > > Monica and Fernando must be reeling from all the complicated English we > are spewing. I look forward to the discussion. > > Still worrying about Figure 3! I know I need to be able to interpret it > but I am doing a lousy job. > > mike > > > On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 5:34 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > wrote: > > > Thanks for finding and sharing the link, Andy, and thanks Michael and > > Mike for bringing the absolutely relevant connection to Parklands. > > > > There was not so long ago a discussion here as well as in a couple of > > articles in MCA about how crises leading to development most often > > result from quantitative increments that lead to qualitative leaps > > such that new forms of organization emerge from previous ones. So, > > David, I don't see why increments in the pace of circulation (e.g., of > > information) would not be expected to bring with them changes in the > > organisation of the whole economy system. I would not say that social > > media is just bringing a lot more of the same, just as I would not a > > priori reject the possibility that bringing a lot more of the same > > might not end up bringing new qualitative forms of communicating. The > > observation that "like" is intransitive in Facebook is interesting; > > but to me it needs to be put in its larger context of use. And so, are > > we analysing Facebook as a grammar closed up in itself, or as one more > chain in a larger grammar of possible cooperation? > > > > I am myself concerned that Social Media like Facebook may be > > amplifying dichotomical thinking beyond the innocuous and often > > way-to-verbose essays we academics enjoy entertaining with much more > > complex verbal forms than Facebook's intransitive "likes", only that > > the confrontations now seem to be moving to family's dinner tables, > > quarrels among protesters in public squares, or previously unheard of > > incarcerations for publishing tweets and rap songs that critique the > > crown in a supposedly modern democracy like Spain (e.g.: > > http://cadenaser.com/ser/2018/02/20/tribunales/1519135083_ > > 106543.html). But the article here discussed also shows that there are > > forms of organization that these technologies are affording that may > > bring more positive changes, like the case again in Spain of March 8th > > women's strike, the extent of which no politician or journalist had > > anticipated and which led the government to quickly adopt a much more > > equity-friendly discourse than even the evening before > > (https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=4_11iIELdfc). So, no, probably that > > one strike, or that one social media that may have made it possible, > > won't change the system. But they seem to incrementally add to > something, don't they? > > > > Alfredo Jornet > > ________________________________ > > New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and > > intransitive dimensions" > > Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > > > > ________________________________________ > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > on behalf of Andy Blunden > > > > Sent: 12 March 2018 06:39 > > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian > > schools > > > > That headline does not exist, but is it this: > > > > https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/07/us/parkland-students-social-media.h > > tml > > > > Andy > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Andy Blunden > > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > > On 12/03/2018 4:02 PM, mike cole wrote: > > > Michael - I have been trying to find a digital copy of a story in > > > today's NY Times titled "the social media warriors of parkland." For > > > some reason > > it > > > is not visible on the digital version.... yet. Maybe someone out > > >there in xmca-land can find it for us? I will check again in the > > >morning to see if it appears. > > > It seems especially relevant to Monica and Fernando's article, > > >and > > to > > > David's comment that " it is very hard for me to pinpoint any > > > actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made > > possible by > > > Facebook." The voices and forms of speaking used by the students > > > was > > not, > > > so far as I could tell, the source of data. There are no quotations > > > of > > any > > > students speaking differently. I assumed that this article was about > > > collective action. > > > Monica and Fernando - I confess I had difficulty following parts of > > > the article, perhaps because I am a very seldom user of Facebook. In > > > particular, I had difficulty understanding Figure 3. Were the > > > people who started M1 also those who started M2-M3? ( " Once > > > students achieved the object of the activity?in the first case, to > > > avoid the closure of the schools?they focused the protests on another > object"). > > > > > > Did the M4 people get the idea from M1 through a FB connection form M1? > > Did > > > you get any sense of what distinguished pages that got a few hundred > > versus > > > 10,000 reactions? > > > > > > Harshad - Did you think the article failed to consider social issues? > > There > > > is no information about you on the xmca membership page, so it is > > > difficult to know from what part of the world you are writing. > > > Unless I miss my guess, some people will wonder at your use of the > > > word "man" where the local practice might put "humankind" or some > > > other gender inclusive term. > > > > > > David - Daylight saving time tonight so I find myself "working > > > late." It got me to wondering how many people live in Seoul. A lot, > it turns out. > > > About 9-10 million. That got me to wondering about how much faster > > > all those people would be getting around on horses with all the > > > horse plops > > to > > > clamber over. And all that hay to haul into town for the morning > > > rush hour. :-) > > > > > > mike > > > > > > On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Glassman, Michael > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > >> Hi David, > > >> > > >> I'm sure those meddling kids won't come back on your lawn any time > soon. > > >> > > >> But really, the article did not say Facebook is a new type of > > technology. > > >> I believe they said that it's a form of human-technology > > >> interaction and suggested perhaps social media was a new type of > > >> human-technology interaction. I don't agree with this phrasing. I > > >> tend to think of > > Facebook > > >> more as an application of Internet technology - but either way > > >> Facebook > > is > > >> just a form or an application. Is the internetworking of computer, > > >> radio and satellite communication an enormous step forward in how > > >> humans communicate. I think so - it's really extraordinary on a > > >> number of > > levels > > >> but that's really not the conversation for this article. > > >> > > >> I do think the authors have done an analysis that is interesting > > >> and possibly important, especially when one considers what is > > >> currently > > going > > >> on down in Parkland (some might be happy to know that, at least > > >> from > > what I > > >> have read, Facebook isn't dominant or even that important for these > > >> students. Adults have been using it more for larger organizational > > events > > >> like the March 14 walkout and the March 24 march). I have read > > >> some articles on organizing on online forums (and actually wrote a > > >> not very > > good > > >> one a few years back). Most of them are communications based an > > >> don't > > have > > >> strong theoretical underpinning which is why I think this article > > >> might > > be > > >> an important step forward. > > >> > > >> I think the idea of using third generation activity theory might be > > >> a > > good > > >> idea for this type of analysis. I myself have seen ties between the > > >> trialogical approach being developed by Hakkareinan and Paavola and > > what is > > >> going on down in Parkland. The students are creating their own > > >> projects > > and > > >> then getting the larger community to buy in to and support what > > >> they are doing which is in turn changing the quality of their > > >> activities. I have > > my > > >> own ideas on why this is suddenly happening and direct > > >> communication technologies like Twitter and texting (which seem > > >> primary vehicles) are only part of it. > > >> > > >> Anyway, this particular article I think is really timely and should > > >> give us a lot to think about. > > >> > > >> Michael > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > >> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg > > >> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2018 6:03 PM > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian > > schools > > >> > > >> So in the fifteenth century, Gutenberg exapted extant technology > > >> already widely available in China and published a single text using > > >> moveable > > type > > >> which started a profound intellectual, cultural, and social > > >> revolution whose effects we still feel today: the rise of > > >> Protestantism, the Counter-Reformation in, among other places, > > >> Brazil, the Wars of > > Religion in > > >> France, the vicissitudes of a multii-confessional (political) State > > >> and ultimately those of a multi-confessional (psychological) state, > > >> In the twentieth century, Ford similarly exapted extant technology, > > >> this time nearly two millenia later than China, and mass-produced > > >> automobiles > > using > > >> Taylorism, forcing everybody to buy an identical product with > > >> interchangeable parts made by factories with interchangeable workers. > > >> The automobile "revolution" did not even give us new roads, and in > > >> Seoul today traffic moves notably slower than it would on > > >> horseback. Clearly, there are some forms of technology that are > > >> actually semiogenic--and > > others > > >> which merely circulate capital at a faster rate and actually slow > > >> the movement of people and new ideas. > > >> > > >> So my question is very simple. How do we know that "Facebook" > > >> (which as the name implies was originally designed to help Harvard > > >> freshmen decide which classmates were sufficiently hot to "like") > > >> is really one of the former technologies?.There are very clear > > >> signs , beyond the obvious > > ones > > >> surrounding the American origins, that it belongs to the latter > > category, > > >> and not a few of them appear in this very article. First of all, > > >> the authors are honest enough to associate Facebook with > > >> reactionary, xenophobic, populist movements like the clowns who run > the "Five Stars" > > >> movement in Italy. Second, on the very first page, the authors try > > >> but > > do > > >> not really seem to be able to distinguish between the "post first > > >> and organize later" technologies of Occupy Wall Street and the use > > >> of social media by the four movements in the article (including one > > >> actually > > called > > >> "Occupy Everything"). And thirdly, it is very hard for me to > > >> pinpoint > > any > > >> actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made > > possible > > >> by Facebook. If anything, Facebook seems to narrow semiogenic power > > >> to a single consumer/computer menu. Ford said, you can get a Model > > >> A in any color you like so long as it's black. Facebook tells us > > >> the same thing, > > but > > >> makes the verb "like" intransitive. > > >> > > >> David Kellogg > > >> Sangmyung University > > >> > > >> Recent Article in *Early Years* > > >> > > >> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, > > >> and the child?s first interrogatives > >> doi/full/10.1080/09575146.2018.1431874> > > >> > > >> Free e-print available at: > > >> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full > > >> > > >> > > >> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 7:30 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >>> Dear xmca'ers, > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> it is (bit over) due time for introducing the article for > > >>> discussion from MCA's 2018 Issue 1, before Issue 2 comes upon us > soon. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> The selected article, by Monica Ferreira Lemos and Fernando > > >>> Rezende da Cunha J?nior, is about two topics that were thematised > > >>> in the last ISCAR congress and that ought to be of much relevance > > >>> to current and future CHAT-related research: Social media and > > >>> social movements. In particular, the article examines how students > > >>> use social media for the organization and development of 4 social > movements in Brazil. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> The article is attached and is Free access during the discussion > > period. > > >>> It can be accessed free in the following link: > > >>> > > >>> https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2017.1379823 > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> The authors have kindly agreed to participate in the discussion > > >>> and they will be introducing themselves soon. I hope you will > > >>> find the article interesting and please don't be shy to share > > >>> anything you might have learned reading it, anything you might > > >>> wonder about it or that you would like see discussed. Having > > >>> authors engage in dialogue is a great opportunity that this > > >>> community offers and that makes sense the most when many of you > participate. Good reading! > > >>> > > >>> ? > > >>> > > >>> Alfredo Jornet > > >>> > > >>> New article in *Design Studies* "Imagning Design: Transitive and > > >>> intransitive dimensions" > > >>> Free print available: > > >>> https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > > >>> > > >> > > > > > > -- Monica F. Lemos - PhD Student Faculty of Educational Sciences Center for Research on Activity, Development and Learning http://www.helsinki.fi/cradle/doctoral_students_2012.htm P.O. Box 9, FIN-00014 University of Helsinki- Finland +55 11 98162-9482 (whatsapp) Skype: monicaflemos From mcole@ucsd.edu Wed Mar 14 15:22:01 2018 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2018 15:22:01 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: [commfac] Fwd: Internet censorship meeting Thursday 7.30pm SSB 101 In-Reply-To: <46B8C438-C52C-4DF1-836D-F971967DB80E@ucsd.edu> References: <87A54FD4-E213-43BE-B2A4-143F40638D1D@ucsd.edu> <46B8C438-C52C-4DF1-836D-F971967DB80E@ucsd.edu> Message-ID: I am forwarding a message that seems relevant to the discussion of Monica and Fernando's paper. Begin forwarded message: Dear colleagues, I would like to draw your attention to a talk that might interest you. In April of last year Google announced that it was taking measures including changing its algorithm and employing ?moderators? in order to prioritize ?authoritative sources? and de-rank ?fake news.? Immediately after this, and subsequently, the World Socialist Web Site and other leftwing and anti-war websites found very significant drops in the amount of traffic coming their way via google searches. Others sites affected include Counterpunch, Truth Dig, Truthout, Commondreams, among others. The journalist Chris Hedges has found his writings increasingly difficult to access via google. Since then, Facebook has employed thousands of censors to alter news feeds, and Twitter and Youtube are also carrying out censorship. This, combined with the FCC?s ending of net neutrality represents a massive threat to internet freedom. This is going to be the topic for discussion at the meeting on Thursday. Thursday March 15, 7.30pm, Social Science Building room 101. Flyer attached. As background, you might also be interested in this video of a discussion between Chris Hedges and David North of wsws on internet censorship: http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/01/18/repo-j18. html#pk_campaign=sidebar&pk_kwd=imagelink-webinar Yours sincerely, Charlie p.s. please forward to anyone you think might be interested. -------------- next part -------------- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Censorship UCSD 2 handbill.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 894704 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20180314/0c3a59bf/attachment-0001.pdf From dkellogg60@gmail.com Wed Mar 14 17:03:09 2018 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2018 09:03:09 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools In-Reply-To: <3c6562c0-b165-6147-b2b3-a896b647295c@marxists.org> References: <1520721034406.59651@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF245E@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <0bdd10ce-7411-8083-533f-44fcfb50e928@marxists.org> <1520858083490.87795@iped.uio.no> <2017557051.756650.1520967771201@mail.yahoo.com> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF28C5@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <3c6562c0-b165-6147-b2b3-a896b647295c@marxists.org> Message-ID: I was ten years old on 15 October 1969, during the first national moratorium to end the Vietnam War, and I was a leader of the school patrol at my elementary school. Our job was standing at intersections with red plastic flags to stop the cars so that the younger grades could cross safely. The day before the Moratorium, we marched up a nearby hill instead of going to our first class so we could hold a discussion over whether it was right to strike on the Moratorium Day, and thus endanger the lives of the littler children. We decided to go ahead with a strike and close down the school the next day; I remember leading a march (our plastic red flags flying!) which included some little 'uns (second and third graders) to Coffmann Union on the nearby University of Minnesota campus where there were tens of thousands of protesting students. They greeted us with a roar I never forgot. My wife, curiously, had a similar experience: she was an elementary school leader of the movement to criticize Lin Biao and Confucius in China and made speeches at mass meetings all over her hometown of Xi'an when she was about seven years old. Yes, the speeches were usually ones she copied from People's Daily, with the help of a friend of her mother's. But she was the only one in her elementary school who could read the speeches with an intonation that suggested understanding and did not have stage fright in front of tens of thousands of adults. As she says today, the newborn calf does not fear a full grown tiger. When we talk about our childhood experiences of mass movements, what strikes me is how utterly pre-conceptal, complexive, and even syncretic we both were: I imagined that the bombing of elementary schools in Vietnam was done to kill second and third graders; my wife thought that Confucius was still alive, and that's why we need to criticize him (in fact, even Lin Biao was already dead by then). Similarly, it seems to me that a lot of the thinking around guns in the USA--and not just by kids--is pre-conceptual. The latest shooting was political--it was carried out by a white nationalist who had trained in the use of weapons with other white nationalists. This isn't much discussed. It seems to me that the suggestion to arm teachers (which is already being done in many areas, but in a way that only endangers teacher lives) offers an affordance for a more sophisticated and also more programmatic approach than simply trying to turn Trump's offhand comments into legislation. If the teachers union had specially trained armed defense guards, for example, they could not only stop school shooters, they might provide some limited protection to black students in South Chicago who are murdered by the police on their way to and from school. And of course armed union defense guards would be absolutely consistent with the "well regulated militia" provision of the Second Amendment, and with practices in countries like Switzerland. David Kellogg Sangmyung University Recent Article in *Early Years* The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and the child?s first interrogatives Free e-print available at: https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 8:59 AM, Andy Blunden wrote: > During the anti-Vietnam War movement there were certainly > actions by school children. In Australia, so I'm sure it > would have happened in the US. But in that case the > schoolkids were joining what was already a mass movement. > The anti-gun movement obviously exists in the US, among > adults, but I get the impression that in both the USD & > Brazil, it is schoolkid initiated. Obviously very many of > the kids have the moral support and encouragement of their > own parents and many teachers and principals. But that is > not the same as actually setting dates and places, informing > relevant people, drafts up letters and statements, etc., etc. > > Every protest in modern times (20th century) happens thanks > to the tireless work of a certain social type called the > Organiser. The Organiser maintains a two-inch think address > book, kept up to date by regular calls relevant to a variety > of campaigns and utilised in the latest protest. The > Organiser hardly ever sleeps, they really *work* at it, and > you receive multiple phone calls reminding you when to be > where and to bring this or that or your friend along too. > They also know their subject and have mastered all the facts > and rhetoric and pester all the media. > > Whatever else it is, FaceBook enables everyone to be an > Organiser. The downside is that it has made people lazy; > poster runs, where a group of activists run around the > business areas at night sticking up posters, have almost > disappeared, as have the phone trees which organised the > Peace Movement. But we all know the story of redundant skills > > Although I always resist simplistic maxims like "the > transformation of quantity into quality" it really seems > reasonable to me that social media plus Trump plus yet > another mass murder cheered on by the NRA and their > political representatives can, at a certain point, exceed > boiling point. > > I look forward with interest to how it goes tomorrow. And > how a new generation handles themselves when they go out to > work and vote. > > Andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > On 14/03/2018 10:25 AM, Glassman, Michael wrote: > > Hello Fernando, > > > > What I find really interesting is this phrase, > > > > "it was the first time in Brazilian history that students (who were not > supposed to interfere) interfered in a political decision." > > > > Mike alluded to this in his message as well about Parkland. I find it > fascinating that the same type of movement among the same age group is > occurring simultaneously in the U.S. and in Brazil. Yet I believe these > students have no contact with each other. And there is nobody teaching > them. There are no experts. They are learning in a way that challenges > many of our belief systems about learning (unless they are machines). > > > > Tomorrow is going to be a very interesting day in the U.S. As part of > the anti-gun movement students all over the country are going to be walking > out of school and staying out for seventeen minutes. In some places > schools will support this. In some places it just won't happen. But I am > growing more fearful of what happens if there is a flashpoint between the > schools and the students. I wonder if some schools will try and chain the > doors. I wonder if some schools will lock the students out (this already > happened at one school putting students in danger). I wonder if police > will decide to have a presence. This will be the first time students (at > least high schoolers) en masse decided to challenge the authority of the > state. > > > > Michael > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Fernando Cunha > > Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 3:03 PM > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity ; mike > cole > > Cc: Lemos, Monica > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian > schools > > > > Dear all, > > I really appreciate the discussion so far, and I liked the way some of > you used some metaphors. It was far from our intention to reinvent the > wheel or to use flint stones to light fire. What I think it is important is > that there is no "if" in human history, and we are where we are because we > transform the places we live, as well as the tools we use. We can for sure > ride horses in the cities, but the horses would sweat so much (considering > the asphalt roads), that in a matter of hours they would die. > > > > Since life is forward, we tried to show in our article a small part of > what the movements organized by the students were.It is important to > highlight, that despite people that were not in favor of protests > (including some students!), it was the first time in Brazilian history that > students (who were not supposed to interfere) interfered in a political > decision. And they did so not only by using Facebook. As we mention in our > paper, Facebook is one aspect of the protests, and we considered it as a > mediational communicative tool. As I mentioned before in this answer, we as > human beings use tools that are available, reshape them, and sometimes use > them for a purpose that is completely different from the original idea. > > I myself am a secondary education teacher, and I am also a researcher > because I am a secondary education teacher. We may have different points of > view when you research something as an outsider, and when you participate > (not as an ethnographer), but as a subject of the group. In my humble > opinion, we are still trying to conceptualize (and stabilize) things that > move faster than we can handle as scientists, or to compare contexts that > cannot be compared. > > > > I am looking forward to your reactions. > > Best regards, > > > > > > __________________________Fernando R. Cunha J?nior, PhD. > > > > http://fernandorcjr.wordpress.com > > > > > > Em segunda-feira, 12 de mar?o de 2018 21:05:34 BRT, mike cole < > mcole@ucsd.edu> escreveu: > > > > Alfredo et al > > > > I read this message before reading the prior one. You are making the > point I was trying to make regarding discussion of the paper. > > In our everyday lives we are experiencing a change in the wind (to use a > metaphor that Dylan made famous at another such time). > > HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS ARE DISRUPTING THINGS AS USUAL for the first time > in my life. Call it 65 years. > > > > And we are academics and some of us are are paid to theorize such > matters. > > To theorize the social organization of society was Hugh's description of > the social sciences. In most American Universities, Psychology (cap P) is > located in the social sciences. > > Do we approach the problem from "below" as psychologists? Do we approach > it from "above" as sociologists and political scientists? > > Can you link the Leontiev who writes about the nature of human > consciousness, psychologically speaking and conducts experiments in the > laboratory that look for all the world like what goes on in my psychology > department, AND as someone who can help understand the growth of social > movements? This may also be a way to address and understanding of the > overlap and variability in the ideas of Vygotsky and Friere. > > > > Monica and Fernando must be reeling from all the complicated English we > are spewing. I look forward to the discussion. > > > > Still worrying about Figure 3! I know I need to be able to interpret it > but I am doing a lousy job. > > > > mike > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 5:34 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > > > wrote: > > > >> Thanks for finding and sharing the link, Andy, and thanks Michael and > >> Mike for bringing the absolutely relevant connection to Parklands. > >> > >> There was not so long ago a discussion here as well as in a couple of > >> articles in MCA about how crises leading to development most often > >> result from quantitative increments that lead to qualitative leaps > >> such that new forms of organization emerge from previous ones. So, > >> David, I don't see why increments in the pace of circulation (e.g., of > >> information) would not be expected to bring with them changes in the > >> organisation of the whole economy system. I would not say that social > >> media is just bringing a lot more of the same, just as I would not a > >> priori reject the possibility that bringing a lot more of the same > >> might not end up bringing new qualitative forms of communicating. The > >> observation that "like" is intransitive in Facebook is interesting; > >> but to me it needs to be put in its larger context of use. And so, are > >> we analysing Facebook as a grammar closed up in itself, or as one more > chain in a larger grammar of possible cooperation? > >> > >> I am myself concerned that Social Media like Facebook may be > >> amplifying dichotomical thinking beyond the innocuous and often > >> way-to-verbose essays we academics enjoy entertaining with much more > >> complex verbal forms than Facebook's intransitive "likes", only that > >> the confrontations now seem to be moving to family's dinner tables, > >> quarrels among protesters in public squares, or previously unheard of > >> incarcerations for publishing tweets and rap songs that critique the > >> crown in a supposedly modern democracy like Spain (e.g.: > >> http://cadenaser.com/ser/2018/02/20/tribunales/1519135083_ > >> 106543.html). But the article here discussed also shows that there are > >> forms of organization that these technologies are affording that may > >> bring more positive changes, like the case again in Spain of March 8th > >> women's strike, the extent of which no politician or journalist had > >> anticipated and which led the government to quickly adopt a much more > >> equity-friendly discourse than even the evening before > >> (https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=4_11iIELdfc). So, no, probably that > >> one strike, or that one social media that may have made it possible, > >> won't change the system. But they seem to incrementally add to > something, don't they? > >> > >> Alfredo Jornet > >> ________________________________ > >> New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and > >> intransitive dimensions" > >> Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > >> > >> ________________________________________ > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >> on behalf of Andy Blunden > >> > >> Sent: 12 March 2018 06:39 > >> To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian > >> schools > >> > >> That headline does not exist, but is it this: > >> > >> https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/07/us/parkland-students-social-media.h > >> tml > >> > >> Andy > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------ > >> Andy Blunden > >> ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > >> On 12/03/2018 4:02 PM, mike cole wrote: > >>> Michael - I have been trying to find a digital copy of a story in > >>> today's NY Times titled "the social media warriors of parkland." For > >>> some reason > >> it > >>> is not visible on the digital version.... yet. Maybe someone out > >>> there in xmca-land can find it for us? I will check again in the > >>> morning to see if it appears. > >>> It seems especially relevant to Monica and Fernando's article, > >>> and > >> to > >>> David's comment that " it is very hard for me to pinpoint any > >>> actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made > >> possible by > >>> Facebook." The voices and forms of speaking used by the students > >>> was > >> not, > >>> so far as I could tell, the source of data. There are no quotations > >>> of > >> any > >>> students speaking differently. I assumed that this article was about > >>> collective action. > >>> Monica and Fernando - I confess I had difficulty following parts of > >>> the article, perhaps because I am a very seldom user of Facebook. In > >>> particular, I had difficulty understanding Figure 3. Were the > >>> people who started M1 also those who started M2-M3? ( " Once > >>> students achieved the object of the activity?in the first case, to > >>> avoid the closure of the schools?they focused the protests on another > object"). > >>> > >>> Did the M4 people get the idea from M1 through a FB connection form M1? > >> Did > >>> you get any sense of what distinguished pages that got a few hundred > >> versus > >>> 10,000 reactions? > >>> > >>> Harshad - Did you think the article failed to consider social issues? > >> There > >>> is no information about you on the xmca membership page, so it is > >>> difficult to know from what part of the world you are writing. > >>> Unless I miss my guess, some people will wonder at your use of the > >>> word "man" where the local practice might put "humankind" or some > >>> other gender inclusive term. > >>> > >>> David - Daylight saving time tonight so I find myself "working > >>> late." It got me to wondering how many people live in Seoul. A lot, > it turns out. > >>> About 9-10 million. That got me to wondering about how much faster > >>> all those people would be getting around on horses with all the > >>> horse plops > >> to > >>> clamber over. And all that hay to haul into town for the morning > >>> rush hour. :-) > >>> > >>> mike > >>> > >>> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Glassman, Michael > >>> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Hi David, > >>>> > >>>> I'm sure those meddling kids won't come back on your lawn any time > soon. > >>>> > >>>> But really, the article did not say Facebook is a new type of > >> technology. > >>>> I believe they said that it's a form of human-technology > >>>> interaction and suggested perhaps social media was a new type of > >>>> human-technology interaction. I don't agree with this phrasing. I > >>>> tend to think of > >> Facebook > >>>> more as an application of Internet technology - but either way > >>>> Facebook > >> is > >>>> just a form or an application. Is the internetworking of computer, > >>>> radio and satellite communication an enormous step forward in how > >>>> humans communicate. I think so - it's really extraordinary on a > >>>> number of > >> levels > >>>> but that's really not the conversation for this article. > >>>> > >>>> I do think the authors have done an analysis that is interesting > >>>> and possibly important, especially when one considers what is > >>>> currently > >> going > >>>> on down in Parkland (some might be happy to know that, at least > >>>> from > >> what I > >>>> have read, Facebook isn't dominant or even that important for these > >>>> students. Adults have been using it more for larger organizational > >> events > >>>> like the March 14 walkout and the March 24 march). I have read > >>>> some articles on organizing on online forums (and actually wrote a > >>>> not very > >> good > >>>> one a few years back). Most of them are communications based an > >>>> don't > >> have > >>>> strong theoretical underpinning which is why I think this article > >>>> might > >> be > >>>> an important step forward. > >>>> > >>>> I think the idea of using third generation activity theory might be > >>>> a > >> good > >>>> idea for this type of analysis. I myself have seen ties between the > >>>> trialogical approach being developed by Hakkareinan and Paavola and > >> what is > >>>> going on down in Parkland. The students are creating their own > >>>> projects > >> and > >>>> then getting the larger community to buy in to and support what > >>>> they are doing which is in turn changing the quality of their > >>>> activities. I have > >> my > >>>> own ideas on why this is suddenly happening and direct > >>>> communication technologies like Twitter and texting (which seem > >>>> primary vehicles) are only part of it. > >>>> > >>>> Anyway, this particular article I think is really timely and should > >>>> give us a lot to think about. > >>>> > >>>> Michael > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > >>>> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg > >>>> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2018 6:03 PM > >>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian > >> schools > >>>> So in the fifteenth century, Gutenberg exapted extant technology > >>>> already widely available in China and published a single text using > >>>> moveable > >> type > >>>> which started a profound intellectual, cultural, and social > >>>> revolution whose effects we still feel today: the rise of > >>>> Protestantism, the Counter-Reformation in, among other places, > >>>> Brazil, the Wars of > >> Religion in > >>>> France, the vicissitudes of a multii-confessional (political) State > >>>> and ultimately those of a multi-confessional (psychological) state, > >>>> In the twentieth century, Ford similarly exapted extant technology, > >>>> this time nearly two millenia later than China, and mass-produced > >>>> automobiles > >> using > >>>> Taylorism, forcing everybody to buy an identical product with > >>>> interchangeable parts made by factories with interchangeable workers. > >>>> The automobile "revolution" did not even give us new roads, and in > >>>> Seoul today traffic moves notably slower than it would on > >>>> horseback. Clearly, there are some forms of technology that are > >>>> actually semiogenic--and > >> others > >>>> which merely circulate capital at a faster rate and actually slow > >>>> the movement of people and new ideas. > >>>> > >>>> So my question is very simple. How do we know that "Facebook" > >>>> (which as the name implies was originally designed to help Harvard > >>>> freshmen decide which classmates were sufficiently hot to "like") > >>>> is really one of the former technologies?.There are very clear > >>>> signs , beyond the obvious > >> ones > >>>> surrounding the American origins, that it belongs to the latter > >> category, > >>>> and not a few of them appear in this very article. First of all, > >>>> the authors are honest enough to associate Facebook with > >>>> reactionary, xenophobic, populist movements like the clowns who run > the "Five Stars" > >>>> movement in Italy. Second, on the very first page, the authors try > >>>> but > >> do > >>>> not really seem to be able to distinguish between the "post first > >>>> and organize later" technologies of Occupy Wall Street and the use > >>>> of social media by the four movements in the article (including one > >>>> actually > >> called > >>>> "Occupy Everything"). And thirdly, it is very hard for me to > >>>> pinpoint > >> any > >>>> actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made > >> possible > >>>> by Facebook. If anything, Facebook seems to narrow semiogenic power > >>>> to a single consumer/computer menu. Ford said, you can get a Model > >>>> A in any color you like so long as it's black. Facebook tells us > >>>> the same thing, > >> but > >>>> makes the verb "like" intransitive. > >>>> > >>>> David Kellogg > >>>> Sangmyung University > >>>> > >>>> Recent Article in *Early Years* > >>>> > >>>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, > >>>> and the child?s first interrogatives >>>> doi/full/10.1080/09575146.2018.1431874> > >>>> > >>>> Free e-print available at: > >>>> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 7:30 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > >> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Dear xmca'ers, > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> it is (bit over) due time for introducing the article for > >>>>> discussion from MCA's 2018 Issue 1, before Issue 2 comes upon us > soon. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> The selected article, by Monica Ferreira Lemos and Fernando > >>>>> Rezende da Cunha J?nior, is about two topics that were thematised > >>>>> in the last ISCAR congress and that ought to be of much relevance > >>>>> to current and future CHAT-related research: Social media and > >>>>> social movements. In particular, the article examines how students > >>>>> use social media for the organization and development of 4 social > movements in Brazil. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> The article is attached and is Free access during the discussion > >> period. > >>>>> It can be accessed free in the following link: > >>>>> > >>>>> https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2017.1379823 > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> The authors have kindly agreed to participate in the discussion > >>>>> and they will be introducing themselves soon. I hope you will > >>>>> find the article interesting and please don't be shy to share > >>>>> anything you might have learned reading it, anything you might > >>>>> wonder about it or that you would like see discussed. Having > >>>>> authors engage in dialogue is a great opportunity that this > >>>>> community offers and that makes sense the most when many of you > participate. Good reading! > >>>>> > >>>>> ? > >>>>> > >>>>> Alfredo Jornet > >>>>> > >>>>> New article in *Design Studies* "Imagning Design: Transitive and > >>>>> intransitive dimensions" > >>>>> Free print available: > >>>>> https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > >>>>> > >> > > > > From andyb@marxists.org Wed Mar 14 23:24:26 2018 From: andyb@marxists.org (Andy Blunden) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2018 17:24:26 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools In-Reply-To: References: <1520721034406.59651@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF245E@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <0bdd10ce-7411-8083-533f-44fcfb50e928@marxists.org> <1520858083490.87795@iped.uio.no> <2017557051.756650.1520967771201@mail.yahoo.com> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF28C5@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <3c6562c0-b165-6147-b2b3-a896b647295c@marxists.org> Message-ID: https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-america/teacher-accidentally-fires-gun-in-class-injures-student-20180315-p4z4eq.html so much for arming teachers ... a ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm On 15/03/2018 11:03 AM, David Kellogg wrote: > I was ten years old on 15 October 1969, during the first national > moratorium to end the Vietnam War, and I was a leader of the school patrol > at my elementary school. Our job was standing at intersections with red > plastic flags to stop the cars so that the younger grades could cross > safely. The day before the Moratorium, we marched up a nearby hill instead > of going to our first class so we could hold a discussion over whether it > was right to strike on the Moratorium Day, and thus endanger the lives of > the littler children. We decided to go ahead with a strike and close down > the school the next day; I remember leading a march (our plastic red flags > flying!) which included some little 'uns (second and third graders) to > Coffmann Union on the nearby University of Minnesota campus where there > were tens of thousands of protesting students. They greeted us with a roar > I never forgot. > > My wife, curiously, had a similar experience: she was an elementary school > leader of the movement to criticize Lin Biao and Confucius in China and > made speeches at mass meetings all over her hometown of Xi'an when she was > about seven years old. Yes, the speeches were usually ones she copied from > People's Daily, with the help of a friend of her mother's. But she was the > only one in her elementary school who could read the speeches with an > intonation that suggested understanding and did not have stage fright in > front of tens of thousands of adults. As she says today, the newborn calf > does not fear a full grown tiger. > > When we talk about our childhood experiences of mass movements, what > strikes me is how utterly pre-conceptal, complexive, and even syncretic we > both were: I imagined that the bombing of elementary schools in Vietnam was > done to kill second and third graders; my wife thought that Confucius was > still alive, and that's why we need to criticize him (in fact, even Lin > Biao was already dead by then). Similarly, it seems to me that a lot of > the thinking around guns in the USA--and not just by kids--is > pre-conceptual. The latest shooting was political--it was carried out by a > white nationalist who had trained in the use of weapons with other white > nationalists. This isn't much discussed. > > It seems to me that the suggestion to arm teachers (which is already being > done in many areas, but in a way that only endangers teacher lives) offers > an affordance for a more sophisticated and also more programmatic approach > than simply trying to turn Trump's offhand comments into legislation. If > the teachers union had specially trained armed defense guards, for example, > they could not only stop school shooters, they might provide some limited > protection to black students in South Chicago who are murdered by the > police on their way to and from school. And of course armed union defense > guards would be absolutely consistent with the "well regulated militia" > provision of the Second Amendment, and with practices in countries like > Switzerland. > > David Kellogg > Sangmyung University > > Recent Article in *Early Years* > > The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and the > child?s first interrogatives > > > Free e-print available at: > https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full > > > On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 8:59 AM, Andy Blunden wrote: > >> During the anti-Vietnam War movement there were certainly >> actions by school children. In Australia, so I'm sure it >> would have happened in the US. But in that case the >> schoolkids were joining what was already a mass movement. >> The anti-gun movement obviously exists in the US, among >> adults, but I get the impression that in both the USD & >> Brazil, it is schoolkid initiated. Obviously very many of >> the kids have the moral support and encouragement of their >> own parents and many teachers and principals. But that is >> not the same as actually setting dates and places, informing >> relevant people, drafts up letters and statements, etc., etc. >> >> Every protest in modern times (20th century) happens thanks >> to the tireless work of a certain social type called the >> Organiser. The Organiser maintains a two-inch think address >> book, kept up to date by regular calls relevant to a variety >> of campaigns and utilised in the latest protest. The >> Organiser hardly ever sleeps, they really *work* at it, and >> you receive multiple phone calls reminding you when to be >> where and to bring this or that or your friend along too. >> They also know their subject and have mastered all the facts >> and rhetoric and pester all the media. >> >> Whatever else it is, FaceBook enables everyone to be an >> Organiser. The downside is that it has made people lazy; >> poster runs, where a group of activists run around the >> business areas at night sticking up posters, have almost >> disappeared, as have the phone trees which organised the >> Peace Movement. But we all know the story of redundant skills >> >> Although I always resist simplistic maxims like "the >> transformation of quantity into quality" it really seems >> reasonable to me that social media plus Trump plus yet >> another mass murder cheered on by the NRA and their >> political representatives can, at a certain point, exceed >> boiling point. >> >> I look forward with interest to how it goes tomorrow. And >> how a new generation handles themselves when they go out to >> work and vote. >> >> Andy >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> Andy Blunden >> ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm >> On 14/03/2018 10:25 AM, Glassman, Michael wrote: >>> Hello Fernando, >>> >>> What I find really interesting is this phrase, >>> >>> "it was the first time in Brazilian history that students (who were not >> supposed to interfere) interfered in a political decision." >>> Mike alluded to this in his message as well about Parkland. I find it >> fascinating that the same type of movement among the same age group is >> occurring simultaneously in the U.S. and in Brazil. Yet I believe these >> students have no contact with each other. And there is nobody teaching >> them. There are no experts. They are learning in a way that challenges >> many of our belief systems about learning (unless they are machines). >>> Tomorrow is going to be a very interesting day in the U.S. As part of >> the anti-gun movement students all over the country are going to be walking >> out of school and staying out for seventeen minutes. In some places >> schools will support this. In some places it just won't happen. But I am >> growing more fearful of what happens if there is a flashpoint between the >> schools and the students. I wonder if some schools will try and chain the >> doors. I wonder if some schools will lock the students out (this already >> happened at one school putting students in danger). I wonder if police >> will decide to have a presence. This will be the first time students (at >> least high schoolers) en masse decided to challenge the authority of the >> state. >>> Michael >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Fernando Cunha >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 3:03 PM >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity ; mike >> cole >>> Cc: Lemos, Monica >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian >> schools >>> Dear all, >>> I really appreciate the discussion so far, and I liked the way some of >> you used some metaphors. It was far from our intention to reinvent the >> wheel or to use flint stones to light fire. What I think it is important is >> that there is no "if" in human history, and we are where we are because we >> transform the places we live, as well as the tools we use. We can for sure >> ride horses in the cities, but the horses would sweat so much (considering >> the asphalt roads), that in a matter of hours they would die. >>> Since life is forward, we tried to show in our article a small part of >> what the movements organized by the students were.It is important to >> highlight, that despite people that were not in favor of protests >> (including some students!), it was the first time in Brazilian history that >> students (who were not supposed to interfere) interfered in a political >> decision. And they did so not only by using Facebook. As we mention in our >> paper, Facebook is one aspect of the protests, and we considered it as a >> mediational communicative tool. As I mentioned before in this answer, we as >> human beings use tools that are available, reshape them, and sometimes use >> them for a purpose that is completely different from the original idea. >>> I myself am a secondary education teacher, and I am also a researcher >> because I am a secondary education teacher. We may have different points of >> view when you research something as an outsider, and when you participate >> (not as an ethnographer), but as a subject of the group. In my humble >> opinion, we are still trying to conceptualize (and stabilize) things that >> move faster than we can handle as scientists, or to compare contexts that >> cannot be compared. >>> I am looking forward to your reactions. >>> Best regards, >>> >>> >>> __________________________Fernando R. Cunha J?nior, PhD. >>> >>> http://fernandorcjr.wordpress.com >>> >>> >>> Em segunda-feira, 12 de mar?o de 2018 21:05:34 BRT, mike cole < >> mcole@ucsd.edu> escreveu: >>> Alfredo et al >>> >>> I read this message before reading the prior one. You are making the >> point I was trying to make regarding discussion of the paper. >>> In our everyday lives we are experiencing a change in the wind (to use a >> metaphor that Dylan made famous at another such time). >>> HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS ARE DISRUPTING THINGS AS USUAL for the first time >> in my life. Call it 65 years. >>> And we are academics and some of us are are paid to theorize such >> matters. >>> To theorize the social organization of society was Hugh's description of >> the social sciences. In most American Universities, Psychology (cap P) is >> located in the social sciences. >>> Do we approach the problem from "below" as psychologists? Do we approach >> it from "above" as sociologists and political scientists? >>> Can you link the Leontiev who writes about the nature of human >> consciousness, psychologically speaking and conducts experiments in the >> laboratory that look for all the world like what goes on in my psychology >> department, AND as someone who can help understand the growth of social >> movements? This may also be a way to address and understanding of the >> overlap and variability in the ideas of Vygotsky and Friere. >>> Monica and Fernando must be reeling from all the complicated English we >> are spewing. I look forward to the discussion. >>> Still worrying about Figure 3! I know I need to be able to interpret it >> but I am doing a lousy job. >>> mike >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 5:34 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil >> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks for finding and sharing the link, Andy, and thanks Michael and >>>> Mike for bringing the absolutely relevant connection to Parklands. >>>> >>>> There was not so long ago a discussion here as well as in a couple of >>>> articles in MCA about how crises leading to development most often >>>> result from quantitative increments that lead to qualitative leaps >>>> such that new forms of organization emerge from previous ones. So, >>>> David, I don't see why increments in the pace of circulation (e.g., of >>>> information) would not be expected to bring with them changes in the >>>> organisation of the whole economy system. I would not say that social >>>> media is just bringing a lot more of the same, just as I would not a >>>> priori reject the possibility that bringing a lot more of the same >>>> might not end up bringing new qualitative forms of communicating. The >>>> observation that "like" is intransitive in Facebook is interesting; >>>> but to me it needs to be put in its larger context of use. And so, are >>>> we analysing Facebook as a grammar closed up in itself, or as one more >> chain in a larger grammar of possible cooperation? >>>> I am myself concerned that Social Media like Facebook may be >>>> amplifying dichotomical thinking beyond the innocuous and often >>>> way-to-verbose essays we academics enjoy entertaining with much more >>>> complex verbal forms than Facebook's intransitive "likes", only that >>>> the confrontations now seem to be moving to family's dinner tables, >>>> quarrels among protesters in public squares, or previously unheard of >>>> incarcerations for publishing tweets and rap songs that critique the >>>> crown in a supposedly modern democracy like Spain (e.g.: >>>> http://cadenaser.com/ser/2018/02/20/tribunales/1519135083_ >>>> 106543.html). But the article here discussed also shows that there are >>>> forms of organization that these technologies are affording that may >>>> bring more positive changes, like the case again in Spain of March 8th >>>> women's strike, the extent of which no politician or journalist had >>>> anticipated and which led the government to quickly adopt a much more >>>> equity-friendly discourse than even the evening before >>>> (https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=4_11iIELdfc). So, no, probably that >>>> one strike, or that one social media that may have made it possible, >>>> won't change the system. But they seem to incrementally add to >> something, don't they? >>>> Alfredo Jornet >>>> ________________________________ >>>> New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and >>>> intransitive dimensions" >>>> Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr >>>> >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>> on behalf of Andy Blunden >>>> >>>> Sent: 12 March 2018 06:39 >>>> To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian >>>> schools >>>> >>>> That headline does not exist, but is it this: >>>> >>>> https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/07/us/parkland-students-social-media.h >>>> tml >>>> >>>> Andy >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> Andy Blunden >>>> ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm >>>> On 12/03/2018 4:02 PM, mike cole wrote: >>>>> Michael - I have been trying to find a digital copy of a story in >>>>> today's NY Times titled "the social media warriors of parkland." For >>>>> some reason >>>> it >>>>> is not visible on the digital version.... yet. Maybe someone out >>>>> there in xmca-land can find it for us? I will check again in the >>>>> morning to see if it appears. >>>>> It seems especially relevant to Monica and Fernando's article, >>>>> and >>>> to >>>>> David's comment that " it is very hard for me to pinpoint any >>>>> actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made >>>> possible by >>>>> Facebook." The voices and forms of speaking used by the students >>>>> was >>>> not, >>>>> so far as I could tell, the source of data. There are no quotations >>>>> of >>>> any >>>>> students speaking differently. I assumed that this article was about >>>>> collective action. >>>>> Monica and Fernando - I confess I had difficulty following parts of >>>>> the article, perhaps because I am a very seldom user of Facebook. In >>>>> particular, I had difficulty understanding Figure 3. Were the >>>>> people who started M1 also those who started M2-M3? ( " Once >>>>> students achieved the object of the activity?in the first case, to >>>>> avoid the closure of the schools?they focused the protests on another >> object"). >>>>> Did the M4 people get the idea from M1 through a FB connection form M1? >>>> Did >>>>> you get any sense of what distinguished pages that got a few hundred >>>> versus >>>>> 10,000 reactions? >>>>> >>>>> Harshad - Did you think the article failed to consider social issues? >>>> There >>>>> is no information about you on the xmca membership page, so it is >>>>> difficult to know from what part of the world you are writing. >>>>> Unless I miss my guess, some people will wonder at your use of the >>>>> word "man" where the local practice might put "humankind" or some >>>>> other gender inclusive term. >>>>> >>>>> David - Daylight saving time tonight so I find myself "working >>>>> late." It got me to wondering how many people live in Seoul. A lot, >> it turns out. >>>>> About 9-10 million. That got me to wondering about how much faster >>>>> all those people would be getting around on horses with all the >>>>> horse plops >>>> to >>>>> clamber over. And all that hay to haul into town for the morning >>>>> rush hour. :-) >>>>> >>>>> mike >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Glassman, Michael >>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi David, >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm sure those meddling kids won't come back on your lawn any time >> soon. >>>>>> But really, the article did not say Facebook is a new type of >>>> technology. >>>>>> I believe they said that it's a form of human-technology >>>>>> interaction and suggested perhaps social media was a new type of >>>>>> human-technology interaction. I don't agree with this phrasing. I >>>>>> tend to think of >>>> Facebook >>>>>> more as an application of Internet technology - but either way >>>>>> Facebook >>>> is >>>>>> just a form or an application. Is the internetworking of computer, >>>>>> radio and satellite communication an enormous step forward in how >>>>>> humans communicate. I think so - it's really extraordinary on a >>>>>> number of >>>> levels >>>>>> but that's really not the conversation for this article. >>>>>> >>>>>> I do think the authors have done an analysis that is interesting >>>>>> and possibly important, especially when one considers what is >>>>>> currently >>>> going >>>>>> on down in Parkland (some might be happy to know that, at least >>>>>> from >>>> what I >>>>>> have read, Facebook isn't dominant or even that important for these >>>>>> students. Adults have been using it more for larger organizational >>>> events >>>>>> like the March 14 walkout and the March 24 march). I have read >>>>>> some articles on organizing on online forums (and actually wrote a >>>>>> not very >>>> good >>>>>> one a few years back). Most of them are communications based an >>>>>> don't >>>> have >>>>>> strong theoretical underpinning which is why I think this article >>>>>> might >>>> be >>>>>> an important step forward. >>>>>> >>>>>> I think the idea of using third generation activity theory might be >>>>>> a >>>> good >>>>>> idea for this type of analysis. I myself have seen ties between the >>>>>> trialogical approach being developed by Hakkareinan and Paavola and >>>> what is >>>>>> going on down in Parkland. The students are creating their own >>>>>> projects >>>> and >>>>>> then getting the larger community to buy in to and support what >>>>>> they are doing which is in turn changing the quality of their >>>>>> activities. I have >>>> my >>>>>> own ideas on why this is suddenly happening and direct >>>>>> communication technologies like Twitter and texting (which seem >>>>>> primary vehicles) are only part of it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Anyway, this particular article I think is really timely and should >>>>>> give us a lot to think about. >>>>>> >>>>>> Michael >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >>>>>> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2018 6:03 PM >>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian >>>> schools >>>>>> So in the fifteenth century, Gutenberg exapted extant technology >>>>>> already widely available in China and published a single text using >>>>>> moveable >>>> type >>>>>> which started a profound intellectual, cultural, and social >>>>>> revolution whose effects we still feel today: the rise of >>>>>> Protestantism, the Counter-Reformation in, among other places, >>>>>> Brazil, the Wars of >>>> Religion in >>>>>> France, the vicissitudes of a multii-confessional (political) State >>>>>> and ultimately those of a multi-confessional (psychological) state, >>>>>> In the twentieth century, Ford similarly exapted extant technology, >>>>>> this time nearly two millenia later than China, and mass-produced >>>>>> automobiles >>>> using >>>>>> Taylorism, forcing everybody to buy an identical product with >>>>>> interchangeable parts made by factories with interchangeable workers. >>>>>> The automobile "revolution" did not even give us new roads, and in >>>>>> Seoul today traffic moves notably slower than it would on >>>>>> horseback. Clearly, there are some forms of technology that are >>>>>> actually semiogenic--and >>>> others >>>>>> which merely circulate capital at a faster rate and actually slow >>>>>> the movement of people and new ideas. >>>>>> >>>>>> So my question is very simple. How do we know that "Facebook" >>>>>> (which as the name implies was originally designed to help Harvard >>>>>> freshmen decide which classmates were sufficiently hot to "like") >>>>>> is really one of the former technologies?.There are very clear >>>>>> signs , beyond the obvious >>>> ones >>>>>> surrounding the American origins, that it belongs to the latter >>>> category, >>>>>> and not a few of them appear in this very article. First of all, >>>>>> the authors are honest enough to associate Facebook with >>>>>> reactionary, xenophobic, populist movements like the clowns who run >> the "Five Stars" >>>>>> movement in Italy. Second, on the very first page, the authors try >>>>>> but >>>> do >>>>>> not really seem to be able to distinguish between the "post first >>>>>> and organize later" technologies of Occupy Wall Street and the use >>>>>> of social media by the four movements in the article (including one >>>>>> actually >>>> called >>>>>> "Occupy Everything"). And thirdly, it is very hard for me to >>>>>> pinpoint >>>> any >>>>>> actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made >>>> possible >>>>>> by Facebook. If anything, Facebook seems to narrow semiogenic power >>>>>> to a single consumer/computer menu. Ford said, you can get a Model >>>>>> A in any color you like so long as it's black. Facebook tells us >>>>>> the same thing, >>>> but >>>>>> makes the verb "like" intransitive. >>>>>> >>>>>> David Kellogg >>>>>> Sangmyung University >>>>>> >>>>>> Recent Article in *Early Years* >>>>>> >>>>>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, >>>>>> and the child?s first interrogatives >>>>> doi/full/10.1080/09575146.2018.1431874> >>>>>> >>>>>> Free e-print available at: >>>>>> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 7:30 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < >>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear xmca'ers, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> it is (bit over) due time for introducing the article for >>>>>>> discussion from MCA's 2018 Issue 1, before Issue 2 comes upon us >> soon. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The selected article, by Monica Ferreira Lemos and Fernando >>>>>>> Rezende da Cunha J?nior, is about two topics that were thematised >>>>>>> in the last ISCAR congress and that ought to be of much relevance >>>>>>> to current and future CHAT-related research: Social media and >>>>>>> social movements. In particular, the article examines how students >>>>>>> use social media for the organization and development of 4 social >> movements in Brazil. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The article is attached and is Free access during the discussion >>>> period. >>>>>>> It can be accessed free in the following link: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2017.1379823 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The authors have kindly agreed to participate in the discussion >>>>>>> and they will be introducing themselves soon. I hope you will >>>>>>> find the article interesting and please don't be shy to share >>>>>>> anything you might have learned reading it, anything you might >>>>>>> wonder about it or that you would like see discussed. Having >>>>>>> authors engage in dialogue is a great opportunity that this >>>>>>> community offers and that makes sense the most when many of you >> participate. Good reading! >>>>>>> ? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Alfredo Jornet >>>>>>> >>>>>>> New article in *Design Studies* "Imagning Design: Transitive and >>>>>>> intransitive dimensions" >>>>>>> Free print available: >>>>>>> https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr >>>>>>> >> From andyb@marxists.org Thu Mar 15 00:10:03 2018 From: andyb@marxists.org (Andy Blunden) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2018 18:10:03 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools In-Reply-To: <2017557051.756650.1520967771201@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1520721034406.59651@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF245E@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <0bdd10ce-7411-8083-533f-44fcfb50e928@marxists.org> <1520858083490.87795@iped.uio.no> <2017557051.756650.1520967771201@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <77f39841-37d5-3da0-3aaf-b6996d803b62@marxists.org> I have a few questions for the authors, some profound, most trivial ... bottom four lines of p. 55 you mention the problem of goals and motives: "to construct a connection between the goals of the students ... and the objective activity systems . ... promotion of creative encounters." It was a lesson I learnt hard, that in organising a movement, you have o make participation enjoyable. Regrettably (he says) maybe even a majority of young people participate in movements for other than the universal motivation. Did you measure anything which could shed light on how, if and how much FaceBook worked as an organising tool in part because people like "playing" on it, socialising, etc.? You mention, e.g. p. 58, that participants in earlier movements went on to participate in the later movement. You draw from this (p. 61) that the movement went on to "different objects". This touches on a problem I have which comes up in other ways. Doesn't it suggest that *all* the Movements were in reality pursuing the *same* object, and the various issues which formed the focus on each of the 4 Movements were in a sense "proxies" or (to use a word you use) *triggers* for action in pursuit of the same object. Though we don't get to know what that might be, because you don't ask the question. Near the bottom of p. 63 you refer to "the emergence of new motives to maintain the social movements" - again I question this emergence or what it was which "emerged". The pattern was (p. 61) that it began in a single school and spread. It is clear enough that FaceBook was key to its spread to other schools, but do you know whether in that first school is was (a) a single student or two, who got their own school organised by FaceBook, or a large group was organised and already mobilised in that school, which then decided to spread itself by FaceBook? Is face-to-face still the most important organising mode, in other words? You say that a FaceBook page is controlled by a few people (the page administrators). Compared to what?? A printing press? A telephone tree? A national newspaper? A chapter committee? A professional lobby group with subscribers? And in the last of the 4 they adopted a strategy of having a central page for the whole movement, with school pages linked. That is, in order to spread the movement they placed the movement in the hands of even *fewer* people. So these kids evidently did not think it regrettable that their organising tools were in the hands of few people. p. 63, and this is important. "The Four Movements ... were triggered by a collective need." This is so wrong it's almost a non sequitor. Of course, I know, it is straight from A N Leontyev. But this is not 1970s USSR, and we can get a better view of the dynamics of social change than ANL could. It is a mistake to claim that the object of a project is a *need*. It is true only to the extent that it is a tautology. And even of you want to say that the object of an activity is a need, it is certainly *not* the "trigger." Imagine if I said that the Second Wave Women's Movement was "triggered" by the "need to fight against patriarchy" ... which had been around for several thousand years. Page 64 you talk of "the emergence of a collective need." I insist, granted there were human needs underneath all this, but it was not the "need" which "emerged." There are complex questions around what "triggers" a movement and lots of people who would dearly like to better understand this. "Need" is not the answer. The answer includes the social position of the participants, events all around, and semiotic considerations of all kinds and "needs" which are at least "second order" needs. I would have liked more attention to this problem. You did not do anything with the widely varying number of Likes on the various pages. Do the number of Likes constitute a useful metric? I don't know. I wonder what it correlated with? Also, in my experience an effective organising page (1) provides what I call a "Honey Pot", i.e., a point of attraction. Does this ring any bells? (2) Offers the opportunity to comment or add images, etc. You note that most of the content was provided by the page admins. What did you notice about those pages which got more added content? I am interested in your responses Monica and Fernando. Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm On 14/03/2018 6:02 AM, Fernando Cunha wrote: > Dear all, > I really appreciate the discussion so far, and I liked the way some of you used some metaphors. It was far from our intention to reinvent the wheel or to use flint stones to light fire. What I think it is important is that there is no "if" in human history, and we are where we are because we transform the places we live, as well as the tools we use. We can for sure ride horses in the cities, but the horses would sweat so much (considering the asphalt roads), that in a matter of hours they would die. > > Since life is forward, we tried to show in our article a small part of what the movements organized by the students were.It is important to highlight, that despite people that were not in favor of protests (including some students!), it was the first time in Brazilian history that students (who were not supposed to interfere) interfered in a political decision. And they did so not only by using Facebook. As we mention in our paper, Facebook is one aspect of the protests, and we considered it as a mediational communicative tool. As I mentioned before in this answer, we as human beings use tools that are available, reshape them, and sometimes use them for a purpose that is completely different from the original idea. > I myself am a secondary education teacher, and I am also a researcher because I am a secondary education teacher. We may have different points of view when you research something as an outsider, and when you participate (not as an ethnographer), but as a subject of the group. In my humble opinion, we are still trying to conceptualize (and stabilize) things that move faster than we can handle as scientists, or to compare contexts that cannot be compared. > > I am looking forward to your reactions. > Best regards, > > > __________________________Fernando R. Cunha J?nior, PhD. > > http://fernandorcjr.wordpress.com > > > Em segunda-feira, 12 de mar?o de 2018 21:05:34 BRT, mike cole escreveu: > > Alfredo et al > > I read this message before reading the prior one. You are making the point > I was trying to make regarding discussion of the paper. > In our everyday lives we are experiencing a change in the wind (to use a > metaphor that Dylan made famous at another such time). > HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS ARE DISRUPTING THINGS AS USUAL for the first time in > my life. Call it 65 years. > > And we are academics and some of us are are paid to theorize such matters. > To theorize the social organization of society was > Hugh's description of the social sciences. In most American Universities, > Psychology (cap P) is located in the social sciences. > Do we approach the problem from "below" as psychologists? Do we approach it > from "above" as sociologists and political scientists? > Can you link the Leontiev who writes about the nature of human > consciousness, psychologically speaking and conducts experiments in the > laboratory that look for all the world like what goes on in my psychology > department, AND as someone who can help understand the growth of social > movements? This may also be a way to address and understanding of the > overlap and variability in the ideas of Vygotsky and Friere. > > Monica and Fernando must be reeling from all the complicated English we are > spewing. I look forward to the discussion. > > Still worrying about Figure 3! I know I need to be able to interpret it but > I am doing a lousy job. > > mike > > > On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 5:34 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > wrote: > >> Thanks for finding and sharing the link, Andy, and thanks Michael and Mike >> for bringing the absolutely relevant connection to Parklands. >> >> There was not so long ago a discussion here as well as in a couple of >> articles in MCA about how crises leading to development most often result >> from quantitative increments that lead to qualitative leaps such that new >> forms of organization emerge from previous ones. So, David, I don't see why >> increments in the pace of circulation (e.g., of information) would not be >> expected to bring with them changes in the organisation of the whole >> economy system. I would not say that social media is just bringing a lot >> more of the same, just as I would not a priori reject the possibility that >> bringing a lot more of the same might not end up bringing new qualitative >> forms of communicating. The observation that "like" is intransitive in >> Facebook is interesting; but to me it needs to be put in its larger context >> of use. And so, are we analysing Facebook as a grammar closed up in itself, >> or as one more chain in a larger grammar of possible cooperation? >> >> I am myself concerned that Social Media like Facebook may be amplifying >> dichotomical thinking beyond the innocuous and often way-to-verbose essays >> we academics enjoy entertaining with much more complex verbal forms than >> Facebook's intransitive "likes", only that the confrontations now seem to >> be moving to family's dinner tables, quarrels among protesters in public >> squares, or previously unheard of incarcerations for publishing tweets and >> rap songs that critique the crown in a supposedly modern democracy like >> Spain (e.g.: http://cadenaser.com/ser/2018/02/20/tribunales/1519135083_ >> 106543.html). But the article here discussed also shows that there are >> forms of organization that these technologies are affording that may bring >> more positive changes, like the case again in Spain of March 8th women's >> strike, the extent of which no politician or journalist had anticipated and >> which led the government to quickly adopt a much more equity-friendly >> discourse than even the evening before (https://www.youtube.com/ >> watch?v=4_11iIELdfc). So, no, probably that one strike, or that one >> social media that may have made it possible, won't change the system. But >> they seem to incrementally add to something, don't they? >> >> Alfredo Jornet >> ________________________________ >> New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and >> intransitive dimensions" >> Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> on behalf of Andy Blunden >> Sent: 12 March 2018 06:39 >> To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools >> >> That headline does not exist, but is it this: >> >> https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/07/us/parkland-students-social-media.html >> >> Andy >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> Andy Blunden >> ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm >> On 12/03/2018 4:02 PM, mike cole wrote: >>> Michael - I have been trying to find a digital copy of a story in today's >>> NY Times titled "the social media warriors of parkland." For some reason >> it >>> is not visible on the digital version.... yet. Maybe someone out there in >>> xmca-land can find it for us? I will check again >>> in the morning to see if it appears. >>> It seems especially relevant to Monica and Fernando's article, and >> to >>> David's comment that " it is very hard for me to pinpoint any >>> actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made >> possible by >>> Facebook." The voices and forms of speaking used by the students was >> not, >>> so far as I could tell, the source of data. There are no quotations of >> any >>> students speaking differently. I assumed that this article was about >>> collective action. >>> Monica and Fernando - I confess I had difficulty following parts of the >>> article, perhaps because I am a very seldom user of Facebook. In >>> particular, I had difficulty understanding Figure 3. Were the people who >>> started M1 also those who started M2-M3? ( " Once students achieved the >>> object of the activity?in the first case, to avoid the closure of the >>> schools?they focused the protests on another object"). >>> >>> Did the M4 people get the idea from M1 through a FB connection form M1? >> Did >>> you get any sense of what distinguished pages that got a few hundred >> versus >>> 10,000 reactions? >>> >>> Harshad - Did you think the article failed to consider social issues? >> There >>> is no information about you on the xmca membership >>> page, so it is difficult to know from what part of the world you are >>> writing. Unless I miss my guess, some people will wonder at your >>> use of the word "man" where the local practice might put "humankind" or >>> some other gender inclusive term. >>> >>> David - Daylight saving time tonight so I find myself "working late." It >>> got me to wondering how many people live in Seoul. A lot, it turns out. >>> About 9-10 million. That got me to wondering about how much faster all >>> those people would be getting around on horses with all the horse plops >> to >>> clamber over. And all that hay to haul into town for the morning rush >>> hour. :-) >>> >>> mike >>> >>> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Glassman, Michael >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi David, >>>> >>>> I'm sure those meddling kids won't come back on your lawn any time soon. >>>> >>>> But really, the article did not say Facebook is a new type of >> technology. >>>> I believe they said that it's a form of human-technology interaction and >>>> suggested perhaps social media was a new type of human-technology >>>> interaction. I don't agree with this phrasing. I tend to think of >> Facebook >>>> more as an application of Internet technology - but either way Facebook >> is >>>> just a form or an application. Is the internetworking of computer, radio >>>> and satellite communication an enormous step forward in how humans >>>> communicate. I think so - it's really extraordinary on a number of >> levels >>>> but that's really not the conversation for this article. >>>> >>>> I do think the authors have done an analysis that is interesting and >>>> possibly important, especially when one considers what is currently >> going >>>> on down in Parkland (some might be happy to know that, at least from >> what I >>>> have read, Facebook isn't dominant or even that important for these >>>> students. Adults have been using it more for larger organizational >> events >>>> like the March 14 walkout and the March 24 march). I have read some >>>> articles on organizing on online forums (and actually wrote a not very >> good >>>> one a few years back). Most of them are communications based an don't >> have >>>> strong theoretical underpinning which is why I think this article might >> be >>>> an important step forward. >>>> >>>> I think the idea of using third generation activity theory might be a >> good >>>> idea for this type of analysis. I myself have seen ties between the >>>> trialogical approach being developed by Hakkareinan and Paavola and >> what is >>>> going on down in Parkland. The students are creating their own projects >> and >>>> then getting the larger community to buy in to and support what they are >>>> doing which is in turn changing the quality of their activities. I have >> my >>>> own ideas on why this is suddenly happening and direct communication >>>> technologies like Twitter and texting (which seem primary vehicles) are >>>> only part of it. >>>> >>>> Anyway, this particular article I think is really timely and should give >>>> us a lot to think about. >>>> >>>> Michael >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >>>> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg >>>> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2018 6:03 PM >>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian >> schools >>>> So in the fifteenth century, Gutenberg exapted extant technology already >>>> widely available in China and published a single text using moveable >> type >>>> which started a profound intellectual, cultural, and social revolution >>>> whose effects we still feel today: the rise of Protestantism, the >>>> Counter-Reformation in, among other places, Brazil, the Wars of >> Religion in >>>> France, the vicissitudes of a multii-confessional (political) State and >>>> ultimately those of a multi-confessional (psychological) state, In the >>>> twentieth century, Ford similarly exapted extant technology, this time >>>> nearly two millenia later than China, and mass-produced automobiles >> using >>>> Taylorism, forcing everybody to buy an identical product with >>>> interchangeable parts made by factories with interchangeable workers. >>>> The automobile "revolution" did not even give us new roads, and in Seoul >>>> today traffic moves notably slower than it would on horseback. Clearly, >>>> there are some forms of technology that are actually semiogenic--and >> others >>>> which merely circulate capital at a faster rate and actually slow the >>>> movement of people and new ideas. >>>> >>>> So my question is very simple. How do we know that "Facebook" (which as >>>> the name implies was originally designed to help Harvard freshmen decide >>>> which classmates were sufficiently hot to "like") is really one of the >>>> former technologies?.There are very clear signs , beyond the obvious >> ones >>>> surrounding the American origins, that it belongs to the latter >> category, >>>> and not a few of them appear in this very article. First of all, the >>>> authors are honest enough to associate Facebook with reactionary, >>>> xenophobic, populist movements like the clowns who run the "Five Stars" >>>> movement in Italy. Second, on the very first page, the authors try but >> do >>>> not really seem to be able to distinguish between the "post first and >>>> organize later" technologies of Occupy Wall Street and the use of social >>>> media by the four movements in the article (including one actually >> called >>>> "Occupy Everything"). And thirdly, it is very hard for me to pinpoint >> any >>>> actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made >> possible >>>> by Facebook. If anything, Facebook seems to narrow semiogenic power to a >>>> single consumer/computer menu. Ford said, you can get a Model A in any >>>> color you like so long as it's black. Facebook tells us the same thing, >> but >>>> makes the verb "like" intransitive. >>>> >>>> David Kellogg >>>> Sangmyung University >>>> >>>> Recent Article in *Early Years* >>>> >>>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and the >>>> child?s first interrogatives >>> doi/full/10.1080/09575146.2018.1431874> >>>> >>>> Free e-print available at: >>>> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 7:30 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < >> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dear xmca'ers, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> it is (bit over) due time for introducing the article for discussion >>>>> from MCA's 2018 Issue 1, before Issue 2 comes upon us soon. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The selected article, by Monica Ferreira Lemos and Fernando Rezende da >>>>> Cunha J?nior, is about two topics that were thematised in the last >>>>> ISCAR congress and that ought to be of much relevance to current and >>>>> future CHAT-related research: Social media and social movements. In >>>>> particular, the article examines how students use social media for the >>>>> organization and development of 4 social movements in Brazil. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The article is attached and is Free access during the discussion >> period. >>>>> It can be accessed free in the following link: >>>>> >>>>> https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2017.1379823 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The authors have kindly agreed to participate in the discussion and >>>>> they will be introducing themselves soon. I hope you will find the >>>>> article interesting and please don't be shy to share anything you >>>>> might have learned reading it, anything you might wonder about it or >>>>> that you would like see discussed. Having authors engage in dialogue >>>>> is a great opportunity that this community offers and that makes sense >>>>> the most when many of you participate. Good reading! >>>>> >>>>> ? >>>>> >>>>> Alfredo Jornet >>>>> >>>>> New article in *Design Studies* "Imagning Design: Transitive and >>>>> intransitive dimensions" >>>>> Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr >>>>> >> From hhdave15@gmail.com Thu Mar 15 05:54:13 2018 From: hhdave15@gmail.com (Harshad Dave) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2018 18:24:13 +0530 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools In-Reply-To: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF29C7@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> References: <1520721034406.59651@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF245E@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <0bdd10ce-7411-8083-533f-44fcfb50e928@marxists.org> <1520858083490.87795@iped.uio.no> <2017557051.756650.1520967771201@mail.yahoo.com> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF29C7@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> Message-ID: 15 March 2018. Dear friends, I write here with reference to email message from Michael (Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 9:25 PM). As far as protest for gun control and debate on it is concerned, I put some views here. We all are aware that this is not the first event of open fire on school students as well as mass killing with gun fire on public place (recall Las Vegas shooting and other). Right from beginning, when Columbus discovered the New World, the road of establishing civilized society on continent America was not a comfortable one. The people passed through challenges, hardship and peril in day to day life during the travel on the road. This journey moulded a responsible and wisdom full culture in the blood of people living there. They fought for independence and emerged with a unity named USA, they sustained with and sacrificed in civil war, they passed through the severe recession of 1930 after World War I, and they fought thousands of kilometres away from native place along with allied nations in World War II. These all are the untold, unwritten qualification of the people of the time that decorated with a right of freedom to keep weapons with them. We never heard of such insane events of mass killing in this society in the history of this people though freedom to keep gun/weapon was and has been a right. [NB: Please note, I am neither in favour nor in opposition to the protest. I try to just bring one point of consideration to the reader.] After August 1945, USA emerged with some exceptional lead over other nations of the world. If we consider a period of 25 years as generation change, the third and fourth generation constitutes present youth. Those who were born in and after August 1945 could study the history of the above path that was traveled by their ancestors. There is much difference between reading a history and making living in the same history. Moreover, I recall the words of President Roosevelt, ?*The only limit to our realization of tomorrow will be our doubts of today.*? It brought a new style and different culture with comfortable life and inexperienced thinking and thoughts in new generations. The emerging social constitution of society in USA and its systems as well as institutions grew with a rapid progress and incessant changes. Majority people believe that ?*dollars?* is the ultimate key towards happiness and peace. Institutions and system of society worked as if ?*science and technology?* has the entire competency to settle any social problem. Wise people.... perhaps... failed to understand that our society is stable and balance on four pillars.... they (pillars) are Philosophy, Ethics and Religion, Science and Technology and Economics. Uneven growth in one or more pillars will destabilize the society. Now a day, we are searching all the answers of social issues from *science and technology*. We try to sort out every problem through *dollars* only, and we do not know if it is sorted out or postponed. Neither we honestly give adequate stress on ethical value nor do we have uniform philosophy on which our society might rest. Family system is all most paralyzed. Youth are encouraged or instigated to be independent and self sufficient as soon as they reach at a prescribed age. We treat them as freedom to youth. Our youth mass is not aware of all this fact and every street and corners are equipped with a net-work to misleading the youth. Now, this mass of the youth protests with an esteemed trust that the subject gun law will bring a safety. They never know, ?*Safety never come from the enacted laws, it does come from the healthy and balanced social system.*? Presently, it seems to me that protesters are with a trust to bring safety by introducing the subject gun law, but the events of shootings shout for the grass root changes in social system with balance uniform growth in the above said four pillars. It demands for reintroducing an affectionate family system again and fundamental education that dollars cannot always bring happiness and peace but where the real happiness and peace lie. Harshad Dave Email: hhdave15@gmail.com On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 9:25 PM, Glassman, Michael wrote: > Fernando and Monica, > > This is what is happening is the United States today, > > https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/03/students- > from-thousands-of-schools-stage-a-walkout-to-protest- > gun-violence-and-honor-parkland-victims.html > > It is nothing less than extraordinary. Many are trying to limit this to > gun violence but I wonder, based on your article, if it will soon transform > into another movement. But I think it goes to show how the work you have > done, if only a beginning, is really important. I feel like we have missed > this in U.S. academic circles. There is what is basically an idiotic > article on fake news in the most recent Science, supposed to be our > flagship. > > I feel like we have to hit the re-set button on understanding what is > going on and the role that what you call human-technology interaction is > playing. > > I have a question for some activity theorists if they are interested in > responding. In some ways what is going on does mirror an activity model, > the multi-level reciprocal transformation (unless I am misunderstanding > something). But as I said in an earlier message there is nobody coming in > doing an intervention, the transformation itself is organic, more Dewey > oriented I would say (I think maybe Friere also). Is there room for this > in activity theory? > > Michael > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Fernando Cunha > Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 3:03 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity ; mike cole > > Cc: Lemos, Monica > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools > > Dear all, > I really appreciate the discussion so far, and I liked the way some of you > used some metaphors. It was far from our intention to reinvent the wheel or > to use flint stones to light fire. What I think it is important is that > there is no "if" in human history, and we are where we are because we > transform the places we live, as well as the tools we use. We can for sure > ride horses in the cities, but the horses would sweat so much (considering > the asphalt roads), that in a matter of hours they would die. > > Since life is forward, we tried to show in our article a small part of > what the movements organized by the students were.It is important to > highlight, that despite people that were not in favor of protests > (including some students!), it was the first time in Brazilian history that > students (who were not supposed to interfere) interfered in a political > decision. And they did so not only by using Facebook. As we mention in our > paper, Facebook is one aspect of the protests, and we considered it as a > mediational communicative tool. As I mentioned before in this answer, we as > human beings use tools that are available, reshape them, and sometimes use > them for a purpose that is completely different from the original idea. > I myself am a secondary education teacher, and I am also a researcher > because I am a secondary education teacher. We may have different points of > view when you research something as an outsider, and when you participate > (not as an ethnographer), but as a subject of the group. In my humble > opinion, we are still trying to conceptualize (and stabilize) things that > move faster than we can handle as scientists, or to compare contexts that > cannot be compared. > > I am looking forward to your reactions. > Best regards, > > > __________________________Fernando R. Cunha J?nior, PhD. > > http://fernandorcjr.wordpress.com > > > Em segunda-feira, 12 de mar?o de 2018 21:05:34 BRT, mike cole < > mcole@ucsd.edu> escreveu: > > Alfredo et al > > I read this message before reading the prior one. You are making the point > I was trying to make regarding discussion of the paper. > In our everyday lives we are experiencing a change in the wind (to use a > metaphor that Dylan made famous at another such time). > HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS ARE DISRUPTING THINGS AS USUAL for the first time in > my life. Call it 65 years. > > And we are academics and some of us are are paid to theorize such matters. > To theorize the social organization of society was Hugh's description of > the social sciences. In most American Universities, Psychology (cap P) is > located in the social sciences. > Do we approach the problem from "below" as psychologists? Do we approach > it from "above" as sociologists and political scientists? > Can you link the Leontiev who writes about the nature of human > consciousness, psychologically speaking and conducts experiments in the > laboratory that look for all the world like what goes on in my psychology > department, AND as someone who can help understand the growth of social > movements? This may also be a way to address and understanding of the > overlap and variability in the ideas of Vygotsky and Friere. > > Monica and Fernando must be reeling from all the complicated English we > are spewing. I look forward to the discussion. > > Still worrying about Figure 3! I know I need to be able to interpret it > but I am doing a lousy job. > > mike > > > On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 5:34 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > wrote: > > > Thanks for finding and sharing the link, Andy, and thanks Michael and > > Mike for bringing the absolutely relevant connection to Parklands. > > > > There was not so long ago a discussion here as well as in a couple of > > articles in MCA about how crises leading to development most often > > result from quantitative increments that lead to qualitative leaps > > such that new forms of organization emerge from previous ones. So, > > David, I don't see why increments in the pace of circulation (e.g., of > > information) would not be expected to bring with them changes in the > > organisation of the whole economy system. I would not say that social > > media is just bringing a lot more of the same, just as I would not a > > priori reject the possibility that bringing a lot more of the same > > might not end up bringing new qualitative forms of communicating. The > > observation that "like" is intransitive in Facebook is interesting; > > but to me it needs to be put in its larger context of use. And so, are > > we analysing Facebook as a grammar closed up in itself, or as one more > chain in a larger grammar of possible cooperation? > > > > I am myself concerned that Social Media like Facebook may be > > amplifying dichotomical thinking beyond the innocuous and often > > way-to-verbose essays we academics enjoy entertaining with much more > > complex verbal forms than Facebook's intransitive "likes", only that > > the confrontations now seem to be moving to family's dinner tables, > > quarrels among protesters in public squares, or previously unheard of > > incarcerations for publishing tweets and rap songs that critique the > > crown in a supposedly modern democracy like Spain (e.g.: > > http://cadenaser.com/ser/2018/02/20/tribunales/1519135083_ > > 106543.html). But the article here discussed also shows that there are > > forms of organization that these technologies are affording that may > > bring more positive changes, like the case again in Spain of March 8th > > women's strike, the extent of which no politician or journalist had > > anticipated and which led the government to quickly adopt a much more > > equity-friendly discourse than even the evening before > > (https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=4_11iIELdfc). So, no, probably that > > one strike, or that one social media that may have made it possible, > > won't change the system. But they seem to incrementally add to > something, don't they? > > > > Alfredo Jornet > > ________________________________ > > New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and > > intransitive dimensions" > > Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > > > > ________________________________________ > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > on behalf of Andy Blunden > > > > Sent: 12 March 2018 06:39 > > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian > > schools > > > > That headline does not exist, but is it this: > > > > https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/07/us/parkland-students-social-media.h > > tml > > > > Andy > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Andy Blunden > > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > > On 12/03/2018 4:02 PM, mike cole wrote: > > > Michael - I have been trying to find a digital copy of a story in > > > today's NY Times titled "the social media warriors of parkland." For > > > some reason > > it > > > is not visible on the digital version.... yet. Maybe someone out > > >there in xmca-land can find it for us? I will check again in the > > >morning to see if it appears. > > > It seems especially relevant to Monica and Fernando's article, > > >and > > to > > > David's comment that " it is very hard for me to pinpoint any > > > actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made > > possible by > > > Facebook." The voices and forms of speaking used by the students > > > was > > not, > > > so far as I could tell, the source of data. There are no quotations > > > of > > any > > > students speaking differently. I assumed that this article was about > > > collective action. > > > Monica and Fernando - I confess I had difficulty following parts of > > > the article, perhaps because I am a very seldom user of Facebook. In > > > particular, I had difficulty understanding Figure 3. Were the > > > people who started M1 also those who started M2-M3? ( " Once > > > students achieved the object of the activity?in the first case, to > > > avoid the closure of the schools?they focused the protests on another > object"). > > > > > > Did the M4 people get the idea from M1 through a FB connection form M1? > > Did > > > you get any sense of what distinguished pages that got a few hundred > > versus > > > 10,000 reactions? > > > > > > Harshad - Did you think the article failed to consider social issues? > > There > > > is no information about you on the xmca membership page, so it is > > > difficult to know from what part of the world you are writing. > > > Unless I miss my guess, some people will wonder at your use of the > > > word "man" where the local practice might put "humankind" or some > > > other gender inclusive term. > > > > > > David - Daylight saving time tonight so I find myself "working > > > late." It got me to wondering how many people live in Seoul. A lot, > it turns out. > > > About 9-10 million. That got me to wondering about how much faster > > > all those people would be getting around on horses with all the > > > horse plops > > to > > > clamber over. And all that hay to haul into town for the morning > > > rush hour. :-) > > > > > > mike > > > > > > On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Glassman, Michael > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > >> Hi David, > > >> > > >> I'm sure those meddling kids won't come back on your lawn any time > soon. > > >> > > >> But really, the article did not say Facebook is a new type of > > technology. > > >> I believe they said that it's a form of human-technology > > >> interaction and suggested perhaps social media was a new type of > > >> human-technology interaction. I don't agree with this phrasing. I > > >> tend to think of > > Facebook > > >> more as an application of Internet technology - but either way > > >> Facebook > > is > > >> just a form or an application. Is the internetworking of computer, > > >> radio and satellite communication an enormous step forward in how > > >> humans communicate. I think so - it's really extraordinary on a > > >> number of > > levels > > >> but that's really not the conversation for this article. > > >> > > >> I do think the authors have done an analysis that is interesting > > >> and possibly important, especially when one considers what is > > >> currently > > going > > >> on down in Parkland (some might be happy to know that, at least > > >> from > > what I > > >> have read, Facebook isn't dominant or even that important for these > > >> students. Adults have been using it more for larger organizational > > events > > >> like the March 14 walkout and the March 24 march). I have read > > >> some articles on organizing on online forums (and actually wrote a > > >> not very > > good > > >> one a few years back). Most of them are communications based an > > >> don't > > have > > >> strong theoretical underpinning which is why I think this article > > >> might > > be > > >> an important step forward. > > >> > > >> I think the idea of using third generation activity theory might be > > >> a > > good > > >> idea for this type of analysis. I myself have seen ties between the > > >> trialogical approach being developed by Hakkareinan and Paavola and > > what is > > >> going on down in Parkland. The students are creating their own > > >> projects > > and > > >> then getting the larger community to buy in to and support what > > >> they are doing which is in turn changing the quality of their > > >> activities. I have > > my > > >> own ideas on why this is suddenly happening and direct > > >> communication technologies like Twitter and texting (which seem > > >> primary vehicles) are only part of it. > > >> > > >> Anyway, this particular article I think is really timely and should > > >> give us a lot to think about. > > >> > > >> Michael > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > >> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg > > >> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2018 6:03 PM > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian > > schools > > >> > > >> So in the fifteenth century, Gutenberg exapted extant technology > > >> already widely available in China and published a single text using > > >> moveable > > type > > >> which started a profound intellectual, cultural, and social > > >> revolution whose effects we still feel today: the rise of > > >> Protestantism, the Counter-Reformation in, among other places, > > >> Brazil, the Wars of > > Religion in > > >> France, the vicissitudes of a multii-confessional (political) State > > >> and ultimately those of a multi-confessional (psychological) state, > > >> In the twentieth century, Ford similarly exapted extant technology, > > >> this time nearly two millenia later than China, and mass-produced > > >> automobiles > > using > > >> Taylorism, forcing everybody to buy an identical product with > > >> interchangeable parts made by factories with interchangeable workers. > > >> The automobile "revolution" did not even give us new roads, and in > > >> Seoul today traffic moves notably slower than it would on > > >> horseback. Clearly, there are some forms of technology that are > > >> actually semiogenic--and > > others > > >> which merely circulate capital at a faster rate and actually slow > > >> the movement of people and new ideas. > > >> > > >> So my question is very simple. How do we know that "Facebook" > > >> (which as the name implies was originally designed to help Harvard > > >> freshmen decide which classmates were sufficiently hot to "like") > > >> is really one of the former technologies?.There are very clear > > >> signs , beyond the obvious > > ones > > >> surrounding the American origins, that it belongs to the latter > > category, > > >> and not a few of them appear in this very article. First of all, > > >> the authors are honest enough to associate Facebook with > > >> reactionary, xenophobic, populist movements like the clowns who run > the "Five Stars" > > >> movement in Italy. Second, on the very first page, the authors try > > >> but > > do > > >> not really seem to be able to distinguish between the "post first > > >> and organize later" technologies of Occupy Wall Street and the use > > >> of social media by the four movements in the article (including one > > >> actually > > called > > >> "Occupy Everything"). And thirdly, it is very hard for me to > > >> pinpoint > > any > > >> actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made > > possible > > >> by Facebook. If anything, Facebook seems to narrow semiogenic power > > >> to a single consumer/computer menu. Ford said, you can get a Model > > >> A in any color you like so long as it's black. Facebook tells us > > >> the same thing, > > but > > >> makes the verb "like" intransitive. > > >> > > >> David Kellogg > > >> Sangmyung University > > >> > > >> Recent Article in *Early Years* > > >> > > >> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, > > >> and the child?s first interrogatives > >> doi/full/10.1080/09575146.2018.1431874> > > >> > > >> Free e-print available at: > > >> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full > > >> > > >> > > >> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 7:30 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >>> Dear xmca'ers, > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> it is (bit over) due time for introducing the article for > > >>> discussion from MCA's 2018 Issue 1, before Issue 2 comes upon us > soon. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> The selected article, by Monica Ferreira Lemos and Fernando > > >>> Rezende da Cunha J?nior, is about two topics that were thematised > > >>> in the last ISCAR congress and that ought to be of much relevance > > >>> to current and future CHAT-related research: Social media and > > >>> social movements. In particular, the article examines how students > > >>> use social media for the organization and development of 4 social > movements in Brazil. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> The article is attached and is Free access during the discussion > > period. > > >>> It can be accessed free in the following link: > > >>> > > >>> https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2017.1379823 > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> The authors have kindly agreed to participate in the discussion > > >>> and they will be introducing themselves soon. I hope you will > > >>> find the article interesting and please don't be shy to share > > >>> anything you might have learned reading it, anything you might > > >>> wonder about it or that you would like see discussed. Having > > >>> authors engage in dialogue is a great opportunity that this > > >>> community offers and that makes sense the most when many of you > participate. Good reading! > > >>> > > >>> ? > > >>> > > >>> Alfredo Jornet > > >>> > > >>> New article in *Design Studies* "Imagning Design: Transitive and > > >>> intransitive dimensions" > > >>> Free print available: > > >>> https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > > >>> > > >> > > > > > > From andyb@marxists.org Thu Mar 15 06:05:43 2018 From: andyb@marxists.org (Andy Blunden) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2018 00:05:43 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools In-Reply-To: References: <1520721034406.59651@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF245E@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <0bdd10ce-7411-8083-533f-44fcfb50e928@marxists.org> <1520858083490.87795@iped.uio.no> <2017557051.756650.1520967771201@mail.yahoo.com> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF29C7@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> Message-ID: <52994747-6e21-60ea-d3a8-8558cd0b3686@marxists.org> Harshad, in the American context I think "family values" is exactly what is not going to solve the problem of gun violence - if indeed anything can "solve" it at all. It is civic participation. By committing themselves to solve this problem through protest, debate and civic action, demanding that Congresspeople act in the public interest - these schoolkids are doing exactly the kind of thing that can make some progress. On the other hand, the consciousness that says (and this is what many American men think) "It is *my* responsibility to defend *my* family, so I demand *my* right to have a gun to shoot anyone who comes near *my* house and *my family*" is what the gun culture feeds on. That's my take ... safely on the other side of the Pacific Ocean. Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm On 15/03/2018 11:54 PM, Harshad Dave wrote: > 15 March 2018. > > Dear friends, > > I write here with reference to email message from Michael (Wed, Mar 14, > 2018 at 9:25 PM). As far as protest for gun control and debate on it is > concerned, I put some views here. > > We all are aware that this is not the first event of open fire on school > students as well as mass killing with gun fire on public place (recall Las > Vegas shooting and other). Right from beginning, when Columbus discovered > the New World, the road of establishing civilized society on continent > America was not a comfortable one. The people passed through challenges, > hardship and peril in day to day life during the travel on the road. This > journey moulded a responsible and wisdom full culture in the blood of > people living there. They fought for independence and emerged with a unity > named USA, they sustained with and sacrificed in civil war, they passed > through the severe recession of 1930 after World War I, and they fought > thousands of kilometres away from native place along with allied nations in > World War II. These all are the untold, unwritten qualification of the > people of the time that decorated with a right of freedom to keep weapons > with them. We never heard of such insane events of mass killing in this > society in the history of this people though freedom to keep gun/weapon was > and has been a right. > > [NB: Please note, I am neither in favour nor in opposition to the protest. > I try to just bring one point of consideration to the reader.] > > After August 1945, USA emerged with some exceptional lead over other > nations of the world. If we consider a period of 25 years as generation > change, the third and fourth generation constitutes present youth. Those > who were born in and after August 1945 could study the history of the above > path that was traveled by their ancestors. There is much difference between > reading a history and making living in the same history. > > Moreover, I recall the words of President Roosevelt, ?*The only limit to > our realization of tomorrow will be our doubts of today.*? It brought a new > style and different culture with comfortable life and inexperienced > thinking and thoughts in new generations. The emerging social constitution > of society in USA and its systems as well as institutions grew with a rapid > progress and incessant changes. Majority people believe that ?*dollars?* is > the ultimate key towards happiness and peace. Institutions and system of > society worked as if ?*science and technology?* has the entire competency > to settle any social problem. > > Wise people.... perhaps... failed to understand that our society is stable > and balance on four pillars.... they (pillars) are Philosophy, Ethics and > Religion, Science and Technology and Economics. Uneven growth in one or > more pillars will destabilize the society. Now a day, we are searching all > the answers of social issues from *science and technology*. We try to sort > out every problem through *dollars* only, and we do not know if it is > sorted out or postponed. Neither we honestly give adequate stress on > ethical value nor do we have uniform philosophy on which our society might > rest. Family system is all most paralyzed. Youth are encouraged or > instigated to be independent and self sufficient as soon as they reach at a > prescribed age. We treat them as freedom to youth. Our youth mass is not > aware of all this fact and every street and corners are equipped with a > net-work to misleading the youth. > > Now, this mass of the youth protests with an esteemed trust that the > subject gun law will bring a safety. They never know, ?*Safety never come > from the enacted laws, it does come from the healthy and balanced social > system.*? Presently, it seems to me that protesters are with a trust to > bring safety by introducing the subject gun law, but the events of > shootings shout for the grass root changes in social system with balance > uniform growth in the above said four pillars. It demands for reintroducing > an affectionate family system again and fundamental education that dollars > cannot always bring happiness and peace but where the real happiness and > peace lie. > > Harshad Dave > > Email: hhdave15@gmail.com > On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 9:25 PM, Glassman, Michael > wrote: > >> Fernando and Monica, >> >> This is what is happening is the United States today, >> >> https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/03/students- >> from-thousands-of-schools-stage-a-walkout-to-protest- >> gun-violence-and-honor-parkland-victims.html >> >> It is nothing less than extraordinary. Many are trying to limit this to >> gun violence but I wonder, based on your article, if it will soon transform >> into another movement. But I think it goes to show how the work you have >> done, if only a beginning, is really important. I feel like we have missed >> this in U.S. academic circles. There is what is basically an idiotic >> article on fake news in the most recent Science, supposed to be our >> flagship. >> >> I feel like we have to hit the re-set button on understanding what is >> going on and the role that what you call human-technology interaction is >> playing. >> >> I have a question for some activity theorists if they are interested in >> responding. In some ways what is going on does mirror an activity model, >> the multi-level reciprocal transformation (unless I am misunderstanding >> something). But as I said in an earlier message there is nobody coming in >> doing an intervention, the transformation itself is organic, more Dewey >> oriented I would say (I think maybe Friere also). Is there room for this >> in activity theory? >> >> Michael >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Fernando Cunha >> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 3:03 PM >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity ; mike cole >> >> Cc: Lemos, Monica >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools >> >> Dear all, >> I really appreciate the discussion so far, and I liked the way some of you >> used some metaphors. It was far from our intention to reinvent the wheel or >> to use flint stones to light fire. What I think it is important is that >> there is no "if" in human history, and we are where we are because we >> transform the places we live, as well as the tools we use. We can for sure >> ride horses in the cities, but the horses would sweat so much (considering >> the asphalt roads), that in a matter of hours they would die. >> >> Since life is forward, we tried to show in our article a small part of >> what the movements organized by the students were.It is important to >> highlight, that despite people that were not in favor of protests >> (including some students!), it was the first time in Brazilian history that >> students (who were not supposed to interfere) interfered in a political >> decision. And they did so not only by using Facebook. As we mention in our >> paper, Facebook is one aspect of the protests, and we considered it as a >> mediational communicative tool. As I mentioned before in this answer, we as >> human beings use tools that are available, reshape them, and sometimes use >> them for a purpose that is completely different from the original idea. >> I myself am a secondary education teacher, and I am also a researcher >> because I am a secondary education teacher. We may have different points of >> view when you research something as an outsider, and when you participate >> (not as an ethnographer), but as a subject of the group. In my humble >> opinion, we are still trying to conceptualize (and stabilize) things that >> move faster than we can handle as scientists, or to compare contexts that >> cannot be compared. >> >> I am looking forward to your reactions. >> Best regards, >> >> >> __________________________Fernando R. Cunha J?nior, PhD. >> >> http://fernandorcjr.wordpress.com >> >> >> Em segunda-feira, 12 de mar?o de 2018 21:05:34 BRT, mike cole < >> mcole@ucsd.edu> escreveu: >> >> Alfredo et al >> >> I read this message before reading the prior one. You are making the point >> I was trying to make regarding discussion of the paper. >> In our everyday lives we are experiencing a change in the wind (to use a >> metaphor that Dylan made famous at another such time). >> HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS ARE DISRUPTING THINGS AS USUAL for the first time in >> my life. Call it 65 years. >> >> And we are academics and some of us are are paid to theorize such matters. >> To theorize the social organization of society was Hugh's description of >> the social sciences. In most American Universities, Psychology (cap P) is >> located in the social sciences. >> Do we approach the problem from "below" as psychologists? Do we approach >> it from "above" as sociologists and political scientists? >> Can you link the Leontiev who writes about the nature of human >> consciousness, psychologically speaking and conducts experiments in the >> laboratory that look for all the world like what goes on in my psychology >> department, AND as someone who can help understand the growth of social >> movements? This may also be a way to address and understanding of the >> overlap and variability in the ideas of Vygotsky and Friere. >> >> Monica and Fernando must be reeling from all the complicated English we >> are spewing. I look forward to the discussion. >> >> Still worrying about Figure 3! I know I need to be able to interpret it >> but I am doing a lousy job. >> >> mike >> >> >> On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 5:34 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil >> wrote: >> >>> Thanks for finding and sharing the link, Andy, and thanks Michael and >>> Mike for bringing the absolutely relevant connection to Parklands. >>> >>> There was not so long ago a discussion here as well as in a couple of >>> articles in MCA about how crises leading to development most often >>> result from quantitative increments that lead to qualitative leaps >>> such that new forms of organization emerge from previous ones. So, >>> David, I don't see why increments in the pace of circulation (e.g., of >>> information) would not be expected to bring with them changes in the >>> organisation of the whole economy system. I would not say that social >>> media is just bringing a lot more of the same, just as I would not a >>> priori reject the possibility that bringing a lot more of the same >>> might not end up bringing new qualitative forms of communicating. The >>> observation that "like" is intransitive in Facebook is interesting; >>> but to me it needs to be put in its larger context of use. And so, are >>> we analysing Facebook as a grammar closed up in itself, or as one more >> chain in a larger grammar of possible cooperation? >>> I am myself concerned that Social Media like Facebook may be >>> amplifying dichotomical thinking beyond the innocuous and often >>> way-to-verbose essays we academics enjoy entertaining with much more >>> complex verbal forms than Facebook's intransitive "likes", only that >>> the confrontations now seem to be moving to family's dinner tables, >>> quarrels among protesters in public squares, or previously unheard of >>> incarcerations for publishing tweets and rap songs that critique the >>> crown in a supposedly modern democracy like Spain (e.g.: >>> http://cadenaser.com/ser/2018/02/20/tribunales/1519135083_ >>> 106543.html). But the article here discussed also shows that there are >>> forms of organization that these technologies are affording that may >>> bring more positive changes, like the case again in Spain of March 8th >>> women's strike, the extent of which no politician or journalist had >>> anticipated and which led the government to quickly adopt a much more >>> equity-friendly discourse than even the evening before >>> (https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=4_11iIELdfc). So, no, probably that >>> one strike, or that one social media that may have made it possible, >>> won't change the system. But they seem to incrementally add to >> something, don't they? >>> Alfredo Jornet >>> ________________________________ >>> New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and >>> intransitive dimensions" >>> Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr >>> >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>> on behalf of Andy Blunden >>> >>> Sent: 12 March 2018 06:39 >>> To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian >>> schools >>> >>> That headline does not exist, but is it this: >>> >>> https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/07/us/parkland-students-social-media.h >>> tml >>> >>> Andy >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Andy Blunden >>> ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm >>> On 12/03/2018 4:02 PM, mike cole wrote: >>>> Michael - I have been trying to find a digital copy of a story in >>>> today's NY Times titled "the social media warriors of parkland." For >>>> some reason >>> it >>>> is not visible on the digital version.... yet. Maybe someone out >>>> there in xmca-land can find it for us? I will check again in the >>>> morning to see if it appears. >>>> It seems especially relevant to Monica and Fernando's article, >>>> and >>> to >>>> David's comment that " it is very hard for me to pinpoint any >>>> actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made >>> possible by >>>> Facebook." The voices and forms of speaking used by the students >>>> was >>> not, >>>> so far as I could tell, the source of data. There are no quotations >>>> of >>> any >>>> students speaking differently. I assumed that this article was about >>>> collective action. >>>> Monica and Fernando - I confess I had difficulty following parts of >>>> the article, perhaps because I am a very seldom user of Facebook. In >>>> particular, I had difficulty understanding Figure 3. Were the >>>> people who started M1 also those who started M2-M3? ( " Once >>>> students achieved the object of the activity?in the first case, to >>>> avoid the closure of the schools?they focused the protests on another >> object"). >>>> Did the M4 people get the idea from M1 through a FB connection form M1? >>> Did >>>> you get any sense of what distinguished pages that got a few hundred >>> versus >>>> 10,000 reactions? >>>> >>>> Harshad - Did you think the article failed to consider social issues? >>> There >>>> is no information about you on the xmca membership page, so it is >>>> difficult to know from what part of the world you are writing. >>>> Unless I miss my guess, some people will wonder at your use of the >>>> word "man" where the local practice might put "humankind" or some >>>> other gender inclusive term. >>>> >>>> David - Daylight saving time tonight so I find myself "working >>>> late." It got me to wondering how many people live in Seoul. A lot, >> it turns out. >>>> About 9-10 million. That got me to wondering about how much faster >>>> all those people would be getting around on horses with all the >>>> horse plops >>> to >>>> clamber over. And all that hay to haul into town for the morning >>>> rush hour. :-) >>>> >>>> mike >>>> >>>> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Glassman, Michael >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi David, >>>>> >>>>> I'm sure those meddling kids won't come back on your lawn any time >> soon. >>>>> But really, the article did not say Facebook is a new type of >>> technology. >>>>> I believe they said that it's a form of human-technology >>>>> interaction and suggested perhaps social media was a new type of >>>>> human-technology interaction. I don't agree with this phrasing. I >>>>> tend to think of >>> Facebook >>>>> more as an application of Internet technology - but either way >>>>> Facebook >>> is >>>>> just a form or an application. Is the internetworking of computer, >>>>> radio and satellite communication an enormous step forward in how >>>>> humans communicate. I think so - it's really extraordinary on a >>>>> number of >>> levels >>>>> but that's really not the conversation for this article. >>>>> >>>>> I do think the authors have done an analysis that is interesting >>>>> and possibly important, especially when one considers what is >>>>> currently >>> going >>>>> on down in Parkland (some might be happy to know that, at least >>>>> from >>> what I >>>>> have read, Facebook isn't dominant or even that important for these >>>>> students. Adults have been using it more for larger organizational >>> events >>>>> like the March 14 walkout and the March 24 march). I have read >>>>> some articles on organizing on online forums (and actually wrote a >>>>> not very >>> good >>>>> one a few years back). Most of them are communications based an >>>>> don't >>> have >>>>> strong theoretical underpinning which is why I think this article >>>>> might >>> be >>>>> an important step forward. >>>>> >>>>> I think the idea of using third generation activity theory might be >>>>> a >>> good >>>>> idea for this type of analysis. I myself have seen ties between the >>>>> trialogical approach being developed by Hakkareinan and Paavola and >>> what is >>>>> going on down in Parkland. The students are creating their own >>>>> projects >>> and >>>>> then getting the larger community to buy in to and support what >>>>> they are doing which is in turn changing the quality of their >>>>> activities. I have >>> my >>>>> own ideas on why this is suddenly happening and direct >>>>> communication technologies like Twitter and texting (which seem >>>>> primary vehicles) are only part of it. >>>>> >>>>> Anyway, this particular article I think is really timely and should >>>>> give us a lot to think about. >>>>> >>>>> Michael >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >>>>> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg >>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2018 6:03 PM >>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian >>> schools >>>>> So in the fifteenth century, Gutenberg exapted extant technology >>>>> already widely available in China and published a single text using >>>>> moveable >>> type >>>>> which started a profound intellectual, cultural, and social >>>>> revolution whose effects we still feel today: the rise of >>>>> Protestantism, the Counter-Reformation in, among other places, >>>>> Brazil, the Wars of >>> Religion in >>>>> France, the vicissitudes of a multii-confessional (political) State >>>>> and ultimately those of a multi-confessional (psychological) state, >>>>> In the twentieth century, Ford similarly exapted extant technology, >>>>> this time nearly two millenia later than China, and mass-produced >>>>> automobiles >>> using >>>>> Taylorism, forcing everybody to buy an identical product with >>>>> interchangeable parts made by factories with interchangeable workers. >>>>> The automobile "revolution" did not even give us new roads, and in >>>>> Seoul today traffic moves notably slower than it would on >>>>> horseback. Clearly, there are some forms of technology that are >>>>> actually semiogenic--and >>> others >>>>> which merely circulate capital at a faster rate and actually slow >>>>> the movement of people and new ideas. >>>>> >>>>> So my question is very simple. How do we know that "Facebook" >>>>> (which as the name implies was originally designed to help Harvard >>>>> freshmen decide which classmates were sufficiently hot to "like") >>>>> is really one of the former technologies?.There are very clear >>>>> signs , beyond the obvious >>> ones >>>>> surrounding the American origins, that it belongs to the latter >>> category, >>>>> and not a few of them appear in this very article. First of all, >>>>> the authors are honest enough to associate Facebook with >>>>> reactionary, xenophobic, populist movements like the clowns who run >> the "Five Stars" >>>>> movement in Italy. Second, on the very first page, the authors try >>>>> but >>> do >>>>> not really seem to be able to distinguish between the "post first >>>>> and organize later" technologies of Occupy Wall Street and the use >>>>> of social media by the four movements in the article (including one >>>>> actually >>> called >>>>> "Occupy Everything"). And thirdly, it is very hard for me to >>>>> pinpoint >>> any >>>>> actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made >>> possible >>>>> by Facebook. If anything, Facebook seems to narrow semiogenic power >>>>> to a single consumer/computer menu. Ford said, you can get a Model >>>>> A in any color you like so long as it's black. Facebook tells us >>>>> the same thing, >>> but >>>>> makes the verb "like" intransitive. >>>>> >>>>> David Kellogg >>>>> Sangmyung University >>>>> >>>>> Recent Article in *Early Years* >>>>> >>>>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, >>>>> and the child?s first interrogatives >>>> doi/full/10.1080/09575146.2018.1431874> >>>>> >>>>> Free e-print available at: >>>>> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 7:30 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < >>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Dear xmca'ers, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> it is (bit over) due time for introducing the article for >>>>>> discussion from MCA's 2018 Issue 1, before Issue 2 comes upon us >> soon. >>>>>> >>>>>> The selected article, by Monica Ferreira Lemos and Fernando >>>>>> Rezende da Cunha J?nior, is about two topics that were thematised >>>>>> in the last ISCAR congress and that ought to be of much relevance >>>>>> to current and future CHAT-related research: Social media and >>>>>> social movements. In particular, the article examines how students >>>>>> use social media for the organization and development of 4 social >> movements in Brazil. >>>>>> >>>>>> The article is attached and is Free access during the discussion >>> period. >>>>>> It can be accessed free in the following link: >>>>>> >>>>>> https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2017.1379823 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> The authors have kindly agreed to participate in the discussion >>>>>> and they will be introducing themselves soon. I hope you will >>>>>> find the article interesting and please don't be shy to share >>>>>> anything you might have learned reading it, anything you might >>>>>> wonder about it or that you would like see discussed. Having >>>>>> authors engage in dialogue is a great opportunity that this >>>>>> community offers and that makes sense the most when many of you >> participate. Good reading! >>>>>> ? >>>>>> >>>>>> Alfredo Jornet >>>>>> >>>>>> New article in *Design Studies* "Imagning Design: Transitive and >>>>>> intransitive dimensions" >>>>>> Free print available: >>>>>> https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr >>>>>> >>> >> From smago@uga.edu Thu Mar 15 06:10:40 2018 From: smago@uga.edu (Peter Smagorinsky) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2018 13:10:40 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Atlanta principal: If you want students to become leaders, let them lead In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm in Mexico this week for work with the U. of Guadalajara, but am following the news from afar. This opinion essay was in today's Atlanta Journal-Constitution and speaks to what I firmly believe. Some of the local schools tried to crack down on yesterday's walkout. Not this one. Atlanta principal: If you want students to become leaders, let them lead 20h ago, March 14, 2018 Atlanta's Grady High School has a long history of social activism. Students honored and continued that legacy today with their walkout for victims of the Parkland, Fla., school shooting a month ago. Here is why Grady and other high schools have that legacy - they are led by leaders who believe you cannot teach students the value of civic engagement and then deny them the opportunity to engage with the challenges of their time. This is what Betsy Bockman, the Grady principal, sent the community before today's walkout. By Betsy Bockman Activism...a doctrine or practice that emphasizes direct vigorous action> especially in support of or opposition to one side of a controversial issue * political activism * environmental activism (Merriam-Webster) When I was growing up my mother was the definition of activism and it was scary to me because it was all a battle against the status quo. My brain was wired to work within the system (tail end of the baby boomer generation) and my mom was the opposite. Before I was 10 years old, I marched and attended meetings dealing with all kinds of "causes"-- this would now be called social justice I think. Women's Liberation, Vietnam War, Civil Rights, Pro-Choice, Vegetarianism, Communal living, Latinless Catholic Mass, Farm Worker's Rights, Desegregation, Worker's Rights, Housing Rights, Socialism, Capitalism, The Great Speckled Bird, Nicaragua, and Unitarianism were all things swirling in my home, head, and history. I didn't like it one bit at the time -- I wanted a mom that that wasn't so well, embarrassing. She even wanted to be called by her name, not "Mom"! I mean my mom was eating kale, brown rice, soy beans, and lentils 60 years ago right when all those great frozen TV dinners and Hamburger Helper came out. I have gotten accustomed to the activist energy at Grady. These kids feel things at very complex and expressive levels. You only need to walk through the halls to see posters and flyers bursting with emotion about the Environmental Science students researching the environmental impact of the Fuqua proposed development across the street; the Ignite Club inviting Atlanta leaders who themselves are on the cutting edge of activism to come speak; our recent Black History program that featured real issues of social justice and injustice in our community and across the U.S.; and mental health concerns plaguing our adolescents. In addition, voices about the dangerous safety and traffic issues at 10th and Monroe streets continue in loud voices so that Grady student, Alex Hyneman's death at that intersection only two years ago will continue to galvanize the community toward greater pedestrian and bicycle safety for Grady and Inman students. Now this week, we have the opportunity for students to express their feelings in collective voice in regard to the latest school shooting only one state away which feels just too close, too scary, and too massive to ignore. Today, during advisement period, students will be given the opportunity to walk to the stadium and participate in a program of activism and reflection as a result of the Miami massacre. Grady is a mixture of voices and feelings--not about taking sides about constitutional amendments. It is a moment in time where students feel the need to be a part of change - even though many are at an age where they can't yet drive or vote. They want to be a part of the movement, the fix, the feeling, no matter the differences in affluence, native country, religion, political views, race, or ethnicity. The deaths near Miami hurt our community--one of the victims was friends with a number of our students who all attended summer camp together for years. One of our Grady teachers attended the high school and knew well one of the teachers killed. In some ways, it feels like we all survived another horrible experience which dealt a blow to adolescents in arms. Maybe it was the eclipse which started the year. Maybe it was just a year that we were all destined to experience loss, grief, and to learn to live with loss, and to find greater meaning for our Grady community. We are all learning resilience and strength and courage no matter our age at Grady. Alex Hyneman succumbed to her injuries the same day my mother passed away. Maybe that's why I feel so strongly about making that intersection so much safer than what has already been done. I understand my mom's passion and drive -- I got quite a bit of it myself even though I fought against it for years. I use so much of what I observed from those early years in working with our Grady students -- I have to trust them and help guide them as they speak their passion and confusion and love even if it is messy and embarrassing at times. Eleanor Troutman Bockman (Lea) would have loved to be a part of the energy. ________________________________ ________________________________ Reader Comments 7 [Livefyre] FlagShare LikeReply [Avatar for SouthernHope5] SouthernHope5 14 hours ago thank you for writing this! FlagShare 2[Another comment][meno]LikeReply [Avatar for clyde escope] clyde escope 15 hours ago You are a blessing and a great leader, Betsy. Thank you. FlagShare 3[ksuna][Another comment][meno]LikeReply [Avatar for Annie] Annie 16 hours ago A great principal supports her students and assures their voice is heard. Kudos to Betsy! FlagShare 3[ksuna][clyde escope][meno]LikeReply [Avatar for feedback11] feedback11 17 hours ago The real leaders of tomorrow are getting a good look at how liberals in the media and schools manufacture "protest movements" to further the leftist agenda. The viral Trump-hate motivating ringleaders must astonish and sicken them. FlagShare LikeReply [Avatar for TruthReallyHurts] TruthReallyHurts 14 hours ago @feedback11 So it's now considered "leftist" to want to be safe from a gun-wielding sociopath while you're in school? You neo-cons/deplorables get dumber every day. SMH -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 86 bytes Desc: image001.png Url : http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20180315/05c6bccf/attachment.png -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: image005.png Type: image/png Size: 183 bytes Desc: image005.png Url : http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20180315/05c6bccf/attachment-0002.png From glassman.13@osu.edu Thu Mar 15 07:36:03 2018 From: glassman.13@osu.edu (Glassman, Michael) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2018 14:36:03 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools In-Reply-To: References: <1520721034406.59651@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF245E@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <0bdd10ce-7411-8083-533f-44fcfb50e928@marxists.org> <1520858083490.87795@iped.uio.no> <2017557051.756650.1520967771201@mail.yahoo.com> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF29C7@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> Message-ID: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF2B93@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> Hi Harshad, Sometimes it is the obvious not the obscure. If you want a hungry person to not be hungry anymore you give them food. A student of mind did a great study on homelessness. Basically the best thing you can do to avoid homelessness is you give people homes. And if you want people to stop shooting each other with guns you take away their guns. Don't forget also that the nuclear family is something we pretty much made up over the last few centuries. Michael -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Harshad Dave Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2018 8:54 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools 15 March 2018. Dear friends, I write here with reference to email message from Michael (Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 9:25 PM). As far as protest for gun control and debate on it is concerned, I put some views here. We all are aware that this is not the first event of open fire on school students as well as mass killing with gun fire on public place (recall Las Vegas shooting and other). Right from beginning, when Columbus discovered the New World, the road of establishing civilized society on continent America was not a comfortable one. The people passed through challenges, hardship and peril in day to day life during the travel on the road. This journey moulded a responsible and wisdom full culture in the blood of people living there. They fought for independence and emerged with a unity named USA, they sustained with and sacrificed in civil war, they passed through the severe recession of 1930 after World War I, and they fought thousands of kilometres away from native place along with allied nations in World War II. These all are the untold, unwritten qualification of the people of the time that decorated with a right of freedom to keep weapons with them. We never heard of such insane events of mass killing in this society in the history of this people though freedom to keep gun/weapon was and has been a right. [NB: Please note, I am neither in favour nor in opposition to the protest. I try to just bring one point of consideration to the reader.] After August 1945, USA emerged with some exceptional lead over other nations of the world. If we consider a period of 25 years as generation change, the third and fourth generation constitutes present youth. Those who were born in and after August 1945 could study the history of the above path that was traveled by their ancestors. There is much difference between reading a history and making living in the same history. Moreover, I recall the words of President Roosevelt, ?*The only limit to our realization of tomorrow will be our doubts of today.*? It brought a new style and different culture with comfortable life and inexperienced thinking and thoughts in new generations. The emerging social constitution of society in USA and its systems as well as institutions grew with a rapid progress and incessant changes. Majority people believe that ?*dollars?* is the ultimate key towards happiness and peace. Institutions and system of society worked as if ?*science and technology?* has the entire competency to settle any social problem. Wise people.... perhaps... failed to understand that our society is stable and balance on four pillars.... they (pillars) are Philosophy, Ethics and Religion, Science and Technology and Economics. Uneven growth in one or more pillars will destabilize the society. Now a day, we are searching all the answers of social issues from *science and technology*. We try to sort out every problem through *dollars* only, and we do not know if it is sorted out or postponed. Neither we honestly give adequate stress on ethical value nor do we have uniform philosophy on which our society might rest. Family system is all most paralyzed. Youth are encouraged or instigated to be independent and self sufficient as soon as they reach at a prescribed age. We treat them as freedom to youth. Our youth mass is not aware of all this fact and every street and corners are equipped with a net-work to misleading the youth. Now, this mass of the youth protests with an esteemed trust that the subject gun law will bring a safety. They never know, ?*Safety never come from the enacted laws, it does come from the healthy and balanced social system.*? Presently, it seems to me that protesters are with a trust to bring safety by introducing the subject gun law, but the events of shootings shout for the grass root changes in social system with balance uniform growth in the above said four pillars. It demands for reintroducing an affectionate family system again and fundamental education that dollars cannot always bring happiness and peace but where the real happiness and peace lie. Harshad Dave Email: hhdave15@gmail.com On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 9:25 PM, Glassman, Michael wrote: > Fernando and Monica, > > This is what is happening is the United States today, > > https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/03/students- > from-thousands-of-schools-stage-a-walkout-to-protest- > gun-violence-and-honor-parkland-victims.html > > It is nothing less than extraordinary. Many are trying to limit this > to gun violence but I wonder, based on your article, if it will soon > transform into another movement. But I think it goes to show how the > work you have done, if only a beginning, is really important. I feel > like we have missed this in U.S. academic circles. There is what is > basically an idiotic article on fake news in the most recent Science, > supposed to be our flagship. > > I feel like we have to hit the re-set button on understanding what is > going on and the role that what you call human-technology interaction > is playing. > > I have a question for some activity theorists if they are interested > in responding. In some ways what is going on does mirror an activity > model, the multi-level reciprocal transformation (unless I am > misunderstanding something). But as I said in an earlier message there > is nobody coming in doing an intervention, the transformation itself > is organic, more Dewey oriented I would say (I think maybe Friere > also). Is there room for this in activity theory? > > Michael > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Fernando Cunha > Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 3:03 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity ; mike > cole > Cc: Lemos, Monica > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian > schools > > Dear all, > I really appreciate the discussion so far, and I liked the way some of > you used some metaphors. It was far from our intention to reinvent the > wheel or to use flint stones to light fire. What I think it is > important is that there is no "if" in human history, and we are where > we are because we transform the places we live, as well as the tools > we use. We can for sure ride horses in the cities, but the horses > would sweat so much (considering the asphalt roads), that in a matter of hours they would die. > > Since life is forward, we tried to show in our article a small part of > what the movements organized by the students were.It is important to > highlight, that despite people that were not in favor of protests > (including some students!), it was the first time in Brazilian history > that students (who were not supposed to interfere) interfered in a > political decision. And they did so not only by using Facebook. As we > mention in our paper, Facebook is one aspect of the protests, and we > considered it as a mediational communicative tool. As I mentioned > before in this answer, we as human beings use tools that are > available, reshape them, and sometimes use them for a purpose that is completely different from the original idea. > I myself am a secondary education teacher, and I am also a researcher > because I am a secondary education teacher. We may have different > points of view when you research something as an outsider, and when > you participate (not as an ethnographer), but as a subject of the > group. In my humble opinion, we are still trying to conceptualize (and > stabilize) things that move faster than we can handle as scientists, > or to compare contexts that cannot be compared. > > I am looking forward to your reactions. > Best regards, > > > __________________________Fernando R. Cunha J?nior, PhD. > > http://fernandorcjr.wordpress.com > > > Em segunda-feira, 12 de mar?o de 2018 21:05:34 BRT, mike cole < > mcole@ucsd.edu> escreveu: > > Alfredo et al > > I read this message before reading the prior one. You are making the > point I was trying to make regarding discussion of the paper. > In our everyday lives we are experiencing a change in the wind (to use > a metaphor that Dylan made famous at another such time). > HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS ARE DISRUPTING THINGS AS USUAL for the first time > in my life. Call it 65 years. > > And we are academics and some of us are are paid to theorize such matters. > To theorize the social organization of society was Hugh's description > of the social sciences. In most American Universities, Psychology (cap > P) is located in the social sciences. > Do we approach the problem from "below" as psychologists? Do we > approach it from "above" as sociologists and political scientists? > Can you link the Leontiev who writes about the nature of human > consciousness, psychologically speaking and conducts experiments in > the laboratory that look for all the world like what goes on in my > psychology department, AND as someone who can help understand the > growth of social movements? This may also be a way to address and > understanding of the overlap and variability in the ideas of Vygotsky and Friere. > > Monica and Fernando must be reeling from all the complicated English > we are spewing. I look forward to the discussion. > > Still worrying about Figure 3! I know I need to be able to interpret > it but I am doing a lousy job. > > mike > > > On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 5:34 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > > wrote: > > > Thanks for finding and sharing the link, Andy, and thanks Michael > > and Mike for bringing the absolutely relevant connection to Parklands. > > > > There was not so long ago a discussion here as well as in a couple > > of articles in MCA about how crises leading to development most > > often result from quantitative increments that lead to qualitative > > leaps such that new forms of organization emerge from previous ones. > > So, David, I don't see why increments in the pace of circulation > > (e.g., of > > information) would not be expected to bring with them changes in the > > organisation of the whole economy system. I would not say that > > social media is just bringing a lot more of the same, just as I > > would not a priori reject the possibility that bringing a lot more > > of the same might not end up bringing new qualitative forms of > > communicating. The observation that "like" is intransitive in > > Facebook is interesting; but to me it needs to be put in its larger > > context of use. And so, are we analysing Facebook as a grammar > > closed up in itself, or as one more > chain in a larger grammar of possible cooperation? > > > > I am myself concerned that Social Media like Facebook may be > > amplifying dichotomical thinking beyond the innocuous and often > > way-to-verbose essays we academics enjoy entertaining with much more > > complex verbal forms than Facebook's intransitive "likes", only that > > the confrontations now seem to be moving to family's dinner tables, > > quarrels among protesters in public squares, or previously unheard > > of incarcerations for publishing tweets and rap songs that critique > > the crown in a supposedly modern democracy like Spain (e.g.: > > http://cadenaser.com/ser/2018/02/20/tribunales/1519135083_ > > 106543.html). But the article here discussed also shows that there > > are forms of organization that these technologies are affording that > > may bring more positive changes, like the case again in Spain of > > March 8th women's strike, the extent of which no politician or > > journalist had anticipated and which led the government to quickly > > adopt a much more equity-friendly discourse than even the evening > > before (https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=4_11iIELdfc). So, no, > > probably that one strike, or that one social media that may have > > made it possible, won't change the system. But they seem to > > incrementally add to > something, don't they? > > > > Alfredo Jornet > > ________________________________ > > New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and > > intransitive dimensions" > > Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > > > > ________________________________________ > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > on behalf of Andy Blunden > > > > Sent: 12 March 2018 06:39 > > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian > > schools > > > > That headline does not exist, but is it this: > > > > https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/07/us/parkland-students-social-media > > .h > > tml > > > > Andy > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Andy Blunden > > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > > On 12/03/2018 4:02 PM, mike cole wrote: > > > Michael - I have been trying to find a digital copy of a story in > > > today's NY Times titled "the social media warriors of parkland." > > > For some reason > > it > > > is not visible on the digital version.... yet. Maybe someone out > > >there in xmca-land can find it for us? I will check again in the > > >morning to see if it appears. > > > It seems especially relevant to Monica and Fernando's > > >article, and > > to > > > David's comment that " it is very hard for me to pinpoint any > > > actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made > > possible by > > > Facebook." The voices and forms of speaking used by the students > > > was > > not, > > > so far as I could tell, the source of data. There are no > > > quotations of > > any > > > students speaking differently. I assumed that this article was > > > about collective action. > > > Monica and Fernando - I confess I had difficulty following parts > > > of the article, perhaps because I am a very seldom user of > > > Facebook. In particular, I had difficulty understanding Figure 3. > > > Were the people who started M1 also those who started M2-M3? ( " > > > Once students achieved the object of the activity?in the first > > > case, to avoid the closure of the schools?they focused the > > > protests on another > object"). > > > > > > Did the M4 people get the idea from M1 through a FB connection form M1? > > Did > > > you get any sense of what distinguished pages that got a few > > > hundred > > versus > > > 10,000 reactions? > > > > > > Harshad - Did you think the article failed to consider social issues? > > There > > > is no information about you on the xmca membership page, so it is > > > difficult to know from what part of the world you are writing. > > > Unless I miss my guess, some people will wonder at your use of the > > > word "man" where the local practice might put "humankind" or some > > > other gender inclusive term. > > > > > > David - Daylight saving time tonight so I find myself "working > > > late." It got me to wondering how many people live in Seoul. A > > > lot, > it turns out. > > > About 9-10 million. That got me to wondering about how much faster > > > all those people would be getting around on horses with all the > > > horse plops > > to > > > clamber over. And all that hay to haul into town for the morning > > > rush hour. :-) > > > > > > mike > > > > > > On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Glassman, Michael > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > >> Hi David, > > >> > > >> I'm sure those meddling kids won't come back on your lawn any > > >> time > soon. > > >> > > >> But really, the article did not say Facebook is a new type of > > technology. > > >> I believe they said that it's a form of human-technology > > >> interaction and suggested perhaps social media was a new type of > > >> human-technology interaction. I don't agree with this phrasing. > > >> I tend to think of > > Facebook > > >> more as an application of Internet technology - but either way > > >> Facebook > > is > > >> just a form or an application. Is the internetworking of > > >> computer, radio and satellite communication an enormous step > > >> forward in how humans communicate. I think so - it's really > > >> extraordinary on a number of > > levels > > >> but that's really not the conversation for this article. > > >> > > >> I do think the authors have done an analysis that is interesting > > >> and possibly important, especially when one considers what is > > >> currently > > going > > >> on down in Parkland (some might be happy to know that, at least > > >> from > > what I > > >> have read, Facebook isn't dominant or even that important for > > >> these students. Adults have been using it more for larger > > >> organizational > > events > > >> like the March 14 walkout and the March 24 march). I have read > > >> some articles on organizing on online forums (and actually wrote > > >> a not very > > good > > >> one a few years back). Most of them are communications based an > > >> don't > > have > > >> strong theoretical underpinning which is why I think this article > > >> might > > be > > >> an important step forward. > > >> > > >> I think the idea of using third generation activity theory might > > >> be a > > good > > >> idea for this type of analysis. I myself have seen ties between > > >> the trialogical approach being developed by Hakkareinan and > > >> Paavola and > > what is > > >> going on down in Parkland. The students are creating their own > > >> projects > > and > > >> then getting the larger community to buy in to and support what > > >> they are doing which is in turn changing the quality of their > > >> activities. I have > > my > > >> own ideas on why this is suddenly happening and direct > > >> communication technologies like Twitter and texting (which seem > > >> primary vehicles) are only part of it. > > >> > > >> Anyway, this particular article I think is really timely and > > >> should give us a lot to think about. > > >> > > >> Michael > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > >> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg > > >> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2018 6:03 PM > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in > > >> Brazilian > > schools > > >> > > >> So in the fifteenth century, Gutenberg exapted extant technology > > >> already widely available in China and published a single text > > >> using moveable > > type > > >> which started a profound intellectual, cultural, and social > > >> revolution whose effects we still feel today: the rise of > > >> Protestantism, the Counter-Reformation in, among other places, > > >> Brazil, the Wars of > > Religion in > > >> France, the vicissitudes of a multii-confessional (political) > > >> State and ultimately those of a multi-confessional > > >> (psychological) state, In the twentieth century, Ford similarly > > >> exapted extant technology, this time nearly two millenia later > > >> than China, and mass-produced automobiles > > using > > >> Taylorism, forcing everybody to buy an identical product with > > >> interchangeable parts made by factories with interchangeable workers. > > >> The automobile "revolution" did not even give us new roads, and > > >> in Seoul today traffic moves notably slower than it would on > > >> horseback. Clearly, there are some forms of technology that are > > >> actually semiogenic--and > > others > > >> which merely circulate capital at a faster rate and actually slow > > >> the movement of people and new ideas. > > >> > > >> So my question is very simple. How do we know that "Facebook" > > >> (which as the name implies was originally designed to help > > >> Harvard freshmen decide which classmates were sufficiently hot to > > >> "like") is really one of the former technologies?.There are very > > >> clear signs , beyond the obvious > > ones > > >> surrounding the American origins, that it belongs to the latter > > category, > > >> and not a few of them appear in this very article. First of all, > > >> the authors are honest enough to associate Facebook with > > >> reactionary, xenophobic, populist movements like the clowns who > > >> run > the "Five Stars" > > >> movement in Italy. Second, on the very first page, the authors > > >> try but > > do > > >> not really seem to be able to distinguish between the "post first > > >> and organize later" technologies of Occupy Wall Street and the > > >> use of social media by the four movements in the article > > >> (including one actually > > called > > >> "Occupy Everything"). And thirdly, it is very hard for me to > > >> pinpoint > > any > > >> actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was > > >> made > > possible > > >> by Facebook. If anything, Facebook seems to narrow semiogenic > > >> power to a single consumer/computer menu. Ford said, you can get > > >> a Model A in any color you like so long as it's black. Facebook > > >> tells us the same thing, > > but > > >> makes the verb "like" intransitive. > > >> > > >> David Kellogg > > >> Sangmyung University > > >> > > >> Recent Article in *Early Years* > > >> > > >> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, > > >> and the child?s first interrogatives > > >> > >> doi/full/10.1080/09575146.2018.1431874> > > >> > > >> Free e-print available at: > > >> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full > > >> > > >> > > >> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 7:30 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >>> Dear xmca'ers, > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> it is (bit over) due time for introducing the article for > > >>> discussion from MCA's 2018 Issue 1, before Issue 2 comes upon us > soon. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> The selected article, by Monica Ferreira Lemos and Fernando > > >>> Rezende da Cunha J?nior, is about two topics that were > > >>> thematised in the last ISCAR congress and that ought to be of > > >>> much relevance to current and future CHAT-related research: > > >>> Social media and social movements. In particular, the article > > >>> examines how students use social media for the organization and > > >>> development of 4 social > movements in Brazil. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> The article is attached and is Free access during the discussion > > period. > > >>> It can be accessed free in the following link: > > >>> > > >>> https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2017.13798 > > >>> 23 > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> The authors have kindly agreed to participate in the discussion > > >>> and they will be introducing themselves soon. I hope you will > > >>> find the article interesting and please don't be shy to share > > >>> anything you might have learned reading it, anything you might > > >>> wonder about it or that you would like see discussed. Having > > >>> authors engage in dialogue is a great opportunity that this > > >>> community offers and that makes sense the most when many of you > participate. Good reading! > > >>> > > >>> ? > > >>> > > >>> Alfredo Jornet > > >>> > > >>> New article in *Design Studies* "Imagning Design: Transitive and > > >>> intransitive dimensions" > > >>> Free print available: > > >>> https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > > >>> > > >> > > > > > > From mcole@ucsd.edu Thu Mar 15 09:24:57 2018 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2018 09:24:57 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Atlanta principal: If you want students to become leaders, let them lead In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A poster at the protest my granddaughter went to in New York read: *"Girls clothing in school is more regulated than GUNS in America!"* mike On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 6:10 AM, Peter Smagorinsky wrote: > I'm in Mexico this week for work with the U. of Guadalajara, but am > following the news from afar. This opinion essay was in today's Atlanta > Journal-Constitution and speaks to what I firmly believe. Some of the local > schools tried to crack down on yesterday's walkout. Not this one. > > Atlanta principal: If you want students to become leaders, let them lead > 20h ago, March 14, 2018 > > Atlanta's Grady High School has a long history of social activism. > Students honored and continued that legacy today with their walkout for > victims of the Parkland, Fla., school shooting a month ago. > > Here is why Grady and other high schools have that legacy - they are led > by leaders who believe you cannot teach students the value of civic > engagement and then deny them the opportunity to engage with the challenges > of their time. > > This is what Betsy Bockman, the Grady principal, sent the community before > today's walkout. > > By Betsy Bockman > > Activism...a doctrine or practice that emphasizes direct vigorous action< > https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/action< > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__k12. > us2.list-2Dmanage.com_track_click-3Fu-3Dbb50a970191462059e6ea0004- > 26id-3D213560250b-26e-3D2b3a15cef2&d=DwMFAg&c=QvQrCjPtO9cKGOfGYlNgXQ&r= > IMgicusXBF0kzYf-C_VrBA&m=rk6d8sXZ_CM15OBzmALXpDClWHSSYYfNHkXnJEHIohY&s= > 6mQow7YXix63UzhE66vsWhsScbAulFiV2yvfEiTIstM&e=>> especially in support of > or opposition to one side of a controversial issue > * political activism > * environmental activism > (Merriam-Webster) > > When I was growing up my mother was the definition of activism and it was > scary to me because it was all a battle against the status quo. My brain > was wired to work within the system (tail end of the baby boomer > generation) and my mom was the opposite. > > Before I was 10 years old, I marched and attended meetings dealing with > all kinds of "causes"-- this would now be called social justice I think. > Women's Liberation, Vietnam War, Civil Rights, Pro-Choice, Vegetarianism, > Communal living, Latinless Catholic Mass, Farm Worker's Rights, > Desegregation, Worker's Rights, Housing Rights, Socialism, Capitalism, The > Great Speckled Bird, Nicaragua, and Unitarianism were all things swirling > in my home, head, and history. I didn't like it one bit at the time -- I > wanted a mom that that wasn't so well, embarrassing. She even wanted to be > called by her name, not "Mom"! I mean my mom was eating kale, brown rice, > soy beans, and lentils 60 years ago right when all those great frozen TV > dinners and Hamburger Helper came out. > > I have gotten accustomed to the activist energy at Grady. These kids feel > things at very complex and expressive levels. You only need to walk through > the halls to see posters and flyers bursting with emotion about the > Environmental Science students researching the environmental impact of the > Fuqua proposed development across the street; the Ignite Club inviting > Atlanta leaders who themselves are on the cutting edge of activism to come > speak; our recent Black History program that featured real issues of social > justice and injustice in our community and across the U.S.; and mental > health concerns plaguing our adolescents. > > In addition, voices about the dangerous safety and traffic issues at 10th > and Monroe streets continue in loud voices so that Grady student, Alex > Hyneman's death at that intersection only two years ago will continue to > galvanize the community toward greater pedestrian and bicycle safety for > Grady and Inman students. > > Now this week, we have the opportunity for students to express their > feelings in collective voice in regard to the latest school shooting only > one state away which feels just too close, too scary, and too massive to > ignore. > > Today, during advisement period, students will be given the opportunity to > walk to the stadium and participate in a program of activism and reflection > as a result of the Miami massacre. Grady is a mixture of voices and > feelings--not about taking sides about constitutional amendments. It is a > moment in time where students feel the need to be a part of change - even > though many are at an age where they can't yet drive or vote. > > They want to be a part of the movement, the fix, the feeling, no matter > the differences in affluence, native country, religion, political views, > race, or ethnicity. The deaths near Miami hurt our community--one of the > victims was friends with a number of our students who all attended summer > camp together for years. One of our Grady teachers attended the high school > and knew well one of the teachers killed. > > In some ways, it feels like we all survived another horrible experience > which dealt a blow to adolescents in arms. Maybe it was the eclipse which > started the year. Maybe it was just a year that we were all destined to > experience loss, grief, and to learn to live with loss, and to find greater > meaning for our Grady community. We are all learning resilience and > strength and courage no matter our age at Grady. Alex Hyneman succumbed to > her injuries the same day my mother passed away. Maybe that's why I feel so > strongly about making that intersection so much safer than what has already > been done. > > I understand my mom's passion and drive -- I got quite a bit of it myself > even though I fought against it for years. I use so much of what I observed > from those early years in working with our Grady students -- I have to > trust them and help guide them as they speak their passion and confusion > and love even if it is messy and embarrassing at times. Eleanor Troutman > Bockman (Lea) would have loved to be a part of the energy. > > ________________________________ > ________________________________ > Reader Comments 7 > [Livefyre] > FlagShare > LikeReply > [Avatar for SouthernHope5] atlanta-principal-you-want-students-become-leaders-let-them-lead/ > 805fxqch86E5yqzHBSPbrI/> > SouthernHope5 14 hours ago > > thank you for writing this! > FlagShare > 2[Another comment] principal-you-want-students-become-leaders-let-them-lead/ > 805fxqch86E5yqzHBSPbrI/>[meno] get-schooled/atlanta-principal-you-want-students- > become-leaders-let-them-lead/805fxqch86E5yqzHBSPbrI/>LikeReply > [Avatar for clyde escope] principal-you-want-students-become-leaders-let-them-lead/ > 805fxqch86E5yqzHBSPbrI/> > clyde escope 15 hours ago > > You are a blessing and a great leader, Betsy. Thank you. > FlagShare > 3[ksuna] principal-you-want-students-become-leaders-let-them-lead/ > 805fxqch86E5yqzHBSPbrI/>[Another comment] com/blog/get-schooled/atlanta-principal-you-want-students- > become-leaders-let-them-lead/805fxqch86E5yqzHBSPbrI/>[meno]< > https://www.myajc.com/blog/get-schooled/atlanta- > principal-you-want-students-become-leaders-let-them-lead/ > 805fxqch86E5yqzHBSPbrI/>LikeReply > [Avatar for Annie] principal-you-want-students-become-leaders-let-them-lead/ > 805fxqch86E5yqzHBSPbrI/> > Annie 16 hours ago > > A great principal supports her students and assures their voice is heard. > Kudos to Betsy! > FlagShare > 3[ksuna] principal-you-want-students-become-leaders-let-them-lead/ > 805fxqch86E5yqzHBSPbrI/>[clyde escope] blog/get-schooled/atlanta-principal-you-want-students- > become-leaders-let-them-lead/805fxqch86E5yqzHBSPbrI/>[meno]< > https://www.myajc.com/blog/get-schooled/atlanta- > principal-you-want-students-become-leaders-let-them-lead/ > 805fxqch86E5yqzHBSPbrI/>LikeReply > [Avatar for feedback11] principal-you-want-students-become-leaders-let-them-lead/ > 805fxqch86E5yqzHBSPbrI/> > feedback11 17 hours ago > > The real leaders of tomorrow are getting a good look at how liberals in > the media and schools manufacture "protest movements" to further the > leftist agenda. The viral Trump-hate motivating ringleaders must astonish > and sicken them. > FlagShare > LikeReply > [Avatar for TruthReallyHurts] atlanta-principal-you-want-students-become-leaders-let-them-lead/ > 805fxqch86E5yqzHBSPbrI/> > TruthReallyHurts 14 hours ago > > @feedback11 So it's now considered "leftist" to want to be safe from a > gun-wielding sociopath while you're in school? You neo-cons/deplorables get > dumber every day. SMH > > From erustenberg@yahoo.com Thu Mar 15 13:49:26 2018 From: erustenberg@yahoo.com (MFH) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2018 20:49:26 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: How do I unsubscribe from xmca? References: <1023238270.1341628.1521146966675.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1023238270.1341628.1521146966675@mail.yahoo.com> -------------------------------------------- On Wed, 3/14/18, David Kellogg wrote: Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Date: Wednesday, March 14, 2018, 6:03 PM I was ten years old on 15 October 1969, during the first national moratorium to end the Vietnam War, and I was a leader of the school patrol at my elementary school. Our job was standing at intersections with red plastic flags to stop the cars so that the younger grades could cross safely. The day before the Moratorium, we marched up a nearby hill instead of going to our first class so we could hold a discussion over whether it was right to strike on the Moratorium Day, and thus endanger the lives of the littler children. We decided to go ahead with a strike and close down the school the next day; I remember leading a march (our plastic red flags flying!) which included some little 'uns (second and third graders) to Coffmann Union on the nearby University of Minnesota campus where there were tens of thousands of? protesting students. They greeted us with a roar I never forgot. My wife, curiously, had a similar experience: she was an elementary school leader of the movement to criticize Lin Biao and Confucius in China and made speeches at mass meetings all over her hometown of Xi'an when she was about seven years old. Yes, the speeches were usually ones she copied from People's Daily, with the help of a friend of her mother's. But she was the only one in her elementary school who could read the speeches with an intonation that suggested understanding and did not have stage fright in front of tens of thousands of adults. As she says today, the newborn calf does not fear a full grown tiger. When we talk about our childhood experiences of mass movements, what strikes me is how utterly pre-conceptal, complexive, and even syncretic we both were: I imagined that the bombing of elementary schools in Vietnam was done to kill second and third graders; my wife thought that Confucius was still alive, and that's why we need to criticize him (in fact, even Lin Biao was already dead by then).? Similarly, it seems to me that a lot of the thinking around guns in the USA--and not just by kids--is pre-conceptual. The latest shooting was political--it was carried out by a white nationalist who had trained in the use of weapons with other white nationalists. This isn't much discussed. It seems to me that the suggestion to arm teachers (which is already being done in many areas, but in a way that only endangers teacher lives) offers an affordance for a more sophisticated and also more programmatic approach than simply trying to turn Trump's offhand comments into legislation. If the teachers union had specially trained armed defense guards, for example, they could not only stop school shooters, they might provide some limited protection to black students in South Chicago who are murdered by the police on their way to and from school. And of course armed union defense guards would be absolutely consistent with the "well regulated militia" provision of the Second Amendment, and with practices in countries like Switzerland. David Kellogg Sangmyung University Recent Article in *Early Years* The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and the child?s first interrogatives Free e-print available at: https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 8:59 AM, Andy Blunden wrote: > During the anti-Vietnam War movement there were certainly > actions by school children. In Australia, so I'm sure it > would have happened in the US. But in that case the > schoolkids were joining what was already a mass movement. > The anti-gun movement obviously exists in the US, among > adults, but I get the impression that in both the USD & > Brazil, it is schoolkid initiated. Obviously very many of > the kids have the moral support and encouragement of their > own parents and many teachers and principals. But that is > not the same as actually setting dates and places, informing > relevant people, drafts up letters and statements, etc., etc. > > Every protest in modern times (20th century) happens thanks > to the tireless work of a certain social type called the > Organiser. The Organiser maintains a two-inch think address > book, kept up to date by regular calls relevant to a variety > of campaigns and utilised in the latest protest. The > Organiser hardly ever sleeps, they really *work* at it, and > you receive multiple phone calls reminding you when to be > where and to bring this or that or your friend along too. > They also know their subject and have mastered all the facts > and rhetoric and pester all the media. > > Whatever else it is, FaceBook enables everyone to be an > Organiser. The downside is that it has made people lazy; > poster runs, where a group of activists run around the > business areas at night sticking up posters, have almost > disappeared, as have the phone trees which organised the > Peace Movement. But we all know the story of redundant skills > > Although I always resist simplistic maxims like "the > transformation of quantity into quality" it really seems > reasonable to me that social media plus Trump plus yet > another mass murder cheered on by the NRA and their > political representatives can, at a certain point, exceed > boiling point. > > I look forward with interest to how it goes tomorrow. And > how a new generation handles themselves when they go out to > work and vote. > > Andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > On 14/03/2018 10:25 AM, Glassman, Michael wrote: > > Hello Fernando, > > > > What I find really interesting is this phrase, > > > > "it was the first time in Brazilian history that students (who were not > supposed to interfere) interfered in a political decision." > > > > Mike alluded to this in his message as well about Parkland.? I find it > fascinating that the same type of movement among the same age group is > occurring simultaneously in the U.S. and in Brazil. Yet I believe these > students have no contact with each other. And there is nobody teaching > them. There are no experts.? They are learning in a way that challenges > many of our belief systems about learning (unless they are machines). > > > > Tomorrow is going to be a very interesting day in the U.S.? As part of > the anti-gun movement students all over the country are going to be walking > out of school and staying out for seventeen minutes.? In some places > schools will support this. In some places it just won't happen.? But I am > growing more fearful of what happens if there is a flashpoint between the > schools and the students.? I wonder if some schools will try and chain the > doors.? I wonder if some schools will lock the students out (this already > happened at one school putting students in danger).? I wonder if police > will decide to have a presence.? This will be the first time students (at > least high schoolers) en masse decided to challenge the authority of the > state. > > > > Michael > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Fernando Cunha > > Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 3:03 PM > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity ; mike > cole > > Cc: Lemos, Monica > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian > schools > > > > Dear all, > > I really appreciate the discussion so far, and I liked the way some of > you used some metaphors. It was far from our intention to reinvent the > wheel or to use flint stones to light fire. What I think it is important is > that there is no "if" in human history, and we are where we are because we > transform the places we live, as well as the tools we use. We can for sure > ride horses in the cities, but the horses would sweat so much (considering > the asphalt roads), that in a matter of hours they would die. > > > > Since life is forward, we tried to show in our article a small part of > what the movements organized by the students were.It is important to > highlight, that despite people that were not in favor of protests > (including some students!), it was the first time in Brazilian history that > students (who were not supposed to interfere) interfered in a political > decision. And they did so not only by using Facebook. As we mention in our > paper, Facebook is one aspect of the protests, and we considered it as a > mediational communicative tool. As I mentioned before in this answer, we as > human beings use tools that are available, reshape them, and sometimes use > them for a purpose that is completely different from the original idea. > > I myself am a secondary education teacher, and I am also a researcher > because I am a secondary education teacher. We may have different points of > view when you research something as an outsider, and when you participate > (not as an ethnographer), but as a subject of the group. In my humble > opinion, we are still trying to conceptualize (and stabilize) things that > move faster than we can handle as scientists, or to compare contexts that > cannot be compared. > > > > I am looking forward to your reactions. > > Best regards, > > > > > > __________________________Fernando R. Cunha J?nior, PhD. > > > > http://fernandorcjr.wordpress.com > > > > > >? ? Em segunda-feira, 12 de mar?o de 2018 21:05:34 BRT, mike cole < > mcole@ucsd.edu> escreveu: > > > >? Alfredo et al > > > > I read this message before reading the prior one. You are making the > point I was trying to make regarding discussion of the paper. > > In our everyday lives we are experiencing a change in the wind (to use a > metaphor that Dylan made famous at another such time). > > HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS ARE DISRUPTING THINGS AS USUAL for the first time > in my life. Call it 65 years. > > > > And we are academics and some of us are are paid to theorize such > matters. > > To theorize the social organization of society was Hugh's description of > the social sciences. In most American Universities, Psychology (cap P) is > located in the social sciences. > > Do we approach the problem from "below" as psychologists? Do we approach > it from "above" as sociologists and political scientists? > > Can you link the Leontiev who writes about the nature of human > consciousness, psychologically speaking and conducts experiments in the > laboratory that look for all the world like what goes on in my psychology > department, AND as someone who can help understand the growth of social > movements? This may also be a way to address and understanding of the > overlap and variability in the ideas of Vygotsky and Friere. > > > > Monica and Fernando must be reeling from all the complicated English we > are spewing. I look forward to the discussion. > > > > Still worrying about Figure 3! I know I need to be able to interpret it > but I am doing a lousy job. > > > > mike > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 5:34 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > > > wrote: > > > >> Thanks for finding and sharing the link, Andy, and thanks Michael and > >> Mike for bringing the absolutely relevant connection to Parklands. > >> > >> There was not so long ago a discussion here as well as in a couple of > >> articles in MCA about how crises leading to development most often > >> result from quantitative increments that lead to qualitative leaps > >> such that new forms of organization emerge from previous ones. So, > >> David, I don't see why increments in the pace of circulation (e.g., of > >> information) would not be expected to bring with them changes in the > >> organisation of the whole economy system. I would not say that social > >> media is just bringing a lot more of the same, just as I would not a > >> priori reject the possibility that bringing a lot more of the same > >> might not end up bringing new qualitative forms of communicating. The > >> observation that "like" is intransitive in Facebook is interesting; > >> but to me it needs to be put in its larger context of use. And so, are > >> we analysing Facebook as a grammar closed up in itself, or as one more > chain in a larger grammar of possible cooperation? > >> > >> I am myself concerned that Social Media like Facebook may be > >> amplifying dichotomical thinking beyond the innocuous and often > >> way-to-verbose essays we academics enjoy entertaining with much more > >> complex verbal forms than Facebook's intransitive "likes", only that > >> the confrontations now seem to be moving to family's dinner tables, > >> quarrels among protesters in public squares, or previously unheard of > >> incarcerations for publishing tweets and rap songs that critique the > >> crown in a supposedly modern democracy like Spain (e.g.: > >> http://cadenaser.com/ser/2018/02/20/tribunales/1519135083_ > >> 106543.html). But the article here discussed also shows that there are > >> forms of organization that these technologies are affording that may > >> bring more positive changes, like the case again in Spain of March 8th > >> women's strike, the extent of which no politician or journalist had > >> anticipated and which led the government to quickly adopt a much more > >> equity-friendly discourse than even the evening before > >> (https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=4_11iIELdfc). So, no, probably that > >> one strike, or that one social media that may have made it possible, > >> won't change the system. But they seem to incrementally add to > something, don't they? > >> > >> Alfredo Jornet > >> ________________________________ > >> New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and > >> intransitive dimensions" > >> Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > >> > >> ________________________________________ > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >> on behalf of Andy Blunden > >> > >> Sent: 12 March 2018 06:39 > >> To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian > >> schools > >> > >> That headline does not exist, but is it this: > >> > >> https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/07/us/parkland-students-social-media.h > >> tml > >> > >> Andy > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------ > >> Andy Blunden > >> ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > >> On 12/03/2018 4:02 PM, mike cole wrote: > >>> Michael - I have been trying to find a digital copy of a story in > >>> today's NY Times titled "the social media warriors of parkland." For > >>> some reason > >> it > >>> is not visible on the digital version.... yet. Maybe someone out > >>> there in? xmca-land can find it for us? I will check again? in the > >>> morning to see if it appears. > >>>? ? ? It seems especially relevant to Monica and Fernando's article, > >>> and > >> to > >>> David's comment that "? it is very hard for me to pinpoint any > >>> actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made > >> possible by > >>> Facebook."? The voices and forms of speaking used by the students > >>> was > >> not, > >>> so far as I could tell, the source of data. There are no quotations > >>> of > >> any > >>> students speaking differently. I assumed that this article was about > >>> collective action. > >>> Monica and Fernando - I confess I had difficulty following parts of > >>> the article, perhaps because I am a very seldom user of Facebook. In > >>> particular, I had difficulty understanding Figure 3.? Were the > >>> people who started M1 also those who started M2-M3? ( " Once > >>> students achieved the object of the activity?in the first case, to > >>> avoid the closure of the schools?they focused the protests on another > object"). > >>> > >>> Did the M4 people get the idea from M1 through a FB connection form M1? > >> Did > >>> you get any sense of what distinguished pages that got a few hundred > >> versus > >>> 10,000 reactions? > >>> > >>> Harshad - Did you think the article failed to consider social issues? > >> There > >>> is no information about you on the xmca membership page, so it is > >>> difficult to know from what part of the world you are writing. > >>> Unless I miss my guess, some people will wonder at your use of the > >>> word "man" where the local practice might put "humankind" or some > >>> other gender inclusive term. > >>> > >>> David - Daylight saving time tonight so I find myself "working > >>> late."? It got me to wondering how many people live in Seoul. A lot, > it turns out. > >>> About 9-10 million. That got me to wondering about how much faster > >>> all those people would be getting around on horses with all the > >>> horse plops > >> to > >>> clamber over. And all that hay to haul into town for the morning > >>> rush hour.? :-) > >>> > >>> mike > >>> > >>> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Glassman, Michael > >>> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Hi David, > >>>> > >>>> I'm sure those meddling kids won't come back on your lawn any time > soon. > >>>> > >>>> But really, the article did not say Facebook is a new type of > >> technology. > >>>> I believe they said that it's a form of human-technology > >>>> interaction and suggested perhaps social media was a new type of > >>>> human-technology interaction.? I don't agree with this phrasing. I > >>>> tend to think of > >> Facebook > >>>> more as an application of Internet technology - but either way > >>>> Facebook > >> is > >>>> just a form or an application. Is the internetworking of computer, > >>>> radio and satellite communication an enormous step forward in how > >>>> humans communicate.? I think so - it's really extraordinary on a > >>>> number of > >> levels > >>>> but that's really not the conversation for this article. > >>>> > >>>> I do think the authors have done an analysis that is interesting > >>>> and possibly important, especially when one considers what is > >>>> currently > >> going > >>>> on down in Parkland (some might be happy to know that, at least > >>>> from > >> what I > >>>> have read, Facebook isn't dominant or even that important for these > >>>> students. Adults have been using it more for larger organizational > >> events > >>>> like the March 14 walkout and the March 24 march).? I have read > >>>> some articles on organizing on online forums (and actually wrote a > >>>> not very > >> good > >>>> one a few years back). Most of them are communications based an > >>>> don't > >> have > >>>> strong theoretical underpinning which is why I think this article > >>>> might > >> be > >>>> an important step forward. > >>>> > >>>> I think the idea of using third generation activity theory might be > >>>> a > >> good > >>>> idea for this type of analysis. I myself have seen ties between the > >>>> trialogical approach being developed by Hakkareinan and Paavola and > >> what is > >>>> going on down in Parkland. The students are creating their own > >>>> projects > >> and > >>>> then getting the larger community to buy in to and support what > >>>> they are doing which is in turn changing the quality of their > >>>> activities. I have > >> my > >>>> own ideas on why this is suddenly happening and direct > >>>> communication technologies like Twitter and texting (which seem > >>>> primary vehicles) are only part of it. > >>>> > >>>> Anyway, this particular article I think is really timely and should > >>>> give us a lot to think about. > >>>> > >>>> Michael > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > >>>> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg > >>>> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2018 6:03 PM > >>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian > >> schools > >>>> So in the fifteenth century, Gutenberg exapted extant technology > >>>> already widely available in China and published a single text using > >>>> moveable > >> type > >>>> which started a profound intellectual, cultural, and social > >>>> revolution whose effects we still feel today: the rise of > >>>> Protestantism, the Counter-Reformation in, among other places, > >>>> Brazil, the Wars of > >> Religion in > >>>> France, the vicissitudes of a multii-confessional (political) State > >>>> and ultimately those of a multi-confessional (psychological) state, > >>>> In the twentieth century, Ford similarly exapted extant technology, > >>>> this time nearly two millenia later than China, and mass-produced > >>>> automobiles > >> using > >>>> Taylorism, forcing everybody to buy an identical product with > >>>> interchangeable parts made by factories with interchangeable workers. > >>>> The automobile "revolution" did not even give us new roads, and in > >>>> Seoul today traffic moves notably slower than it would on > >>>> horseback. Clearly, there are some forms of technology that are > >>>> actually semiogenic--and > >> others > >>>> which merely circulate capital at a faster rate and actually slow > >>>> the movement of people and new ideas. > >>>> > >>>> So my question is very simple. How do we know that "Facebook" > >>>> (which as the name implies was originally designed to help Harvard > >>>> freshmen decide which classmates were sufficiently hot to "like") > >>>> is really one of the former technologies?.There are very clear > >>>> signs , beyond the obvious > >> ones > >>>> surrounding the American origins, that it belongs to the latter > >> category, > >>>> and not a few of them appear in this very article. First of all, > >>>> the authors are honest enough to associate Facebook with > >>>> reactionary, xenophobic, populist movements like the clowns who run > the "Five Stars" > >>>> movement in Italy. Second, on the very first page, the authors try > >>>> but > >> do > >>>> not really seem to be able to distinguish between the "post first > >>>> and organize later" technologies of Occupy Wall Street and the use > >>>> of social media by the four movements in the article (including one > >>>> actually > >> called > >>>> "Occupy Everything"). And thirdly, it is very hard for me to > >>>> pinpoint > >> any > >>>> actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made > >> possible > >>>> by Facebook. If anything, Facebook seems to narrow semiogenic power > >>>> to a single consumer/computer menu. Ford said, you can get a Model > >>>> A in any color you like so long as it's black. Facebook tells us > >>>> the same thing, > >> but > >>>> makes the verb "like" intransitive. > >>>> > >>>> David Kellogg > >>>> Sangmyung University > >>>> > >>>> Recent Article in *Early Years* > >>>> > >>>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, > >>>> and the child?s first interrogatives >>>> doi/full/10.1080/09575146.2018.1431874> > >>>> > >>>> Free e-print available at: > >>>> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 7:30 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > >> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Dear xmca'ers, > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> it is (bit over) due time for introducing the article for > >>>>> discussion from MCA's 2018 Issue 1, before Issue 2 comes upon us > soon. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> The selected article, by Monica Ferreira Lemos and Fernando > >>>>> Rezende da Cunha J?nior, is about two topics that were thematised > >>>>> in the last ISCAR congress and that ought to be of much relevance > >>>>> to current and future CHAT-related research: Social media and > >>>>> social movements. In particular, the article examines how students > >>>>> use social media for the organization and development of 4 social > movements in Brazil. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> The article is attached and is Free access during the discussion > >> period. > >>>>> It can be accessed free in the following link: > >>>>> > >>>>> https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2017.1379823 > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> The authors have kindly agreed to participate in the discussion > >>>>> and they will be introducing themselves soon. I hope you? will > >>>>> find the article interesting and please don't be shy to share > >>>>> anything you might have learned reading it, anything you might > >>>>> wonder about it or that you would like see discussed. Having > >>>>> authors engage in dialogue is a great opportunity that this > >>>>> community offers and that makes sense the most when many of you > participate. Good reading! > >>>>> > >>>>> ? > >>>>> > >>>>> Alfredo Jornet > >>>>> > >>>>> New article in *Design Studies* "Imagning Design: Transitive and > >>>>> intransitive dimensions" > >>>>> Free print available: > >>>>> https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > >>>>> > >> > > > > From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Thu Mar 15 16:35:05 2018 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2018 23:35:05 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools In-Reply-To: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF2B93@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> References: <1520721034406.59651@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF245E@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <0bdd10ce-7411-8083-533f-44fcfb50e928@marxists.org> <1520858083490.87795@iped.uio.no> <2017557051.756650.1520967771201@mail.yahoo.com> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF29C7@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> , <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF2B93@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> Message-ID: <1521156905718.23564@iped.uio.no> Just as a note to Harshad's and Michael's comments, and with the hope to, although through a little detour, somehow re-connect with the article (at least with the topic of social media, youth, and social mobilisation): Today, in Reykjavik, we were in a meeting discussing opportunities and challenges that emerge when educators try to implement makerspaces activities with young children (5-6 years old), now that those have become fashionable and educators are trying to see what's good in there. In the meeting, there were experienced kindergarten teachers, science center organisers, artist researchers, "just plain postdocs" and the likes, all of whom have experience and passion about children and learning. We all agreed that most of the problems in attempting to implement makerspaces-like activities with younger children had to do with the failure of the adults to appreciate and let the children own and make the space theirs, which we find is the whole point of a maker space. We pointed out our failure to see and listen how the kids see and listen, so as to help them make. While many of us, adults, in those situations tend to attend to the verb "to make" in the transitive, as in "she makes some*thing*", thereby focusing on some end in mind that provides with a model against which to exert correction, we forget that, in most cases, the kids are in fact *making* (in the intransitive, without object), and that it is in the making that the possibility of the end object emerges. Instead of supporting them, appreciating the heart of what making means?in praxis?we tend to suffocate them, narrowing the space so that it no longer is a makerspace, or at least not one even close to their regular kindergarten spaces. Similarly, I am reluctant here to follow the lead that "mass youth is mislead," at least not before I try to carefully and respectfully attend to where they are at, what *their* world and space is, and what they say. For yes, the words "safety" or "Girls clothing in school is more regulated than GUNS in America" may not sound as erudite and profound as more complex statements about the relations between Philosophy, Science, Ethics, and Economy (all with capital letter). But the fact is that the magic, the future, humanity in fact, is in their saying. So I would listen, but not with the narrow backward view of us adults who already know, but from the prospective forward view of those who grow. And this is not to say that they are right or that they are wrong; that would be, I think, missing the point. Even though, I must say, the messages too, like "your prayers do nothing," are quite convincing to me. Alfredo Jornet ________________________________ New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and intransitive dimensions" Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Glassman, Michael Sent: 15 March 2018 15:36 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools Hi Harshad, Sometimes it is the obvious not the obscure. If you want a hungry person to not be hungry anymore you give them food. A student of mind did a great study on homelessness. Basically the best thing you can do to avoid homelessness is you give people homes. And if you want people to stop shooting each other with guns you take away their guns. Don't forget also that the nuclear family is something we pretty much made up over the last few centuries. Michael -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Harshad Dave Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2018 8:54 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools 15 March 2018. Dear friends, I write here with reference to email message from Michael (Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 9:25 PM). As far as protest for gun control and debate on it is concerned, I put some views here. We all are aware that this is not the first event of open fire on school students as well as mass killing with gun fire on public place (recall Las Vegas shooting and other). Right from beginning, when Columbus discovered the New World, the road of establishing civilized society on continent America was not a comfortable one. The people passed through challenges, hardship and peril in day to day life during the travel on the road. This journey moulded a responsible and wisdom full culture in the blood of people living there. They fought for independence and emerged with a unity named USA, they sustained with and sacrificed in civil war, they passed through the severe recession of 1930 after World War I, and they fought thousands of kilometres away from native place along with allied nations in World War II. These all are the untold, unwritten qualification of the people of the time that decorated with a right of freedom to keep weapons with them. We never heard of such insane events of mass killing in this society in the history of this people though freedom to keep gun/weapon was and has been a right. [NB: Please note, I am neither in favour nor in opposition to the protest. I try to just bring one point of consideration to the reader.] After August 1945, USA emerged with some exceptional lead over other nations of the world. If we consider a period of 25 years as generation change, the third and fourth generation constitutes present youth. Those who were born in and after August 1945 could study the history of the above path that was traveled by their ancestors. There is much difference between reading a history and making living in the same history. Moreover, I recall the words of President Roosevelt, ?*The only limit to our realization of tomorrow will be our doubts of today.*? It brought a new style and different culture with comfortable life and inexperienced thinking and thoughts in new generations. The emerging social constitution of society in USA and its systems as well as institutions grew with a rapid progress and incessant changes. Majority people believe that ?*dollars?* is the ultimate key towards happiness and peace. Institutions and system of society worked as if ?*science and technology?* has the entire competency to settle any social problem. Wise people.... perhaps... failed to understand that our society is stable and balance on four pillars.... they (pillars) are Philosophy, Ethics and Religion, Science and Technology and Economics. Uneven growth in one or more pillars will destabilize the society. Now a day, we are searching all the answers of social issues from *science and technology*. We try to sort out every problem through *dollars* only, and we do not know if it is sorted out or postponed. Neither we honestly give adequate stress on ethical value nor do we have uniform philosophy on which our society might rest. Family system is all most paralyzed. Youth are encouraged or instigated to be independent and self sufficient as soon as they reach at a prescribed age. We treat them as freedom to youth. Our youth mass is not aware of all this fact and every street and corners are equipped with a net-work to misleading the youth. Now, this mass of the youth protests with an esteemed trust that the subject gun law will bring a safety. They never know, ?*Safety never come from the enacted laws, it does come from the healthy and balanced social system.*? Presently, it seems to me that protesters are with a trust to bring safety by introducing the subject gun law, but the events of shootings shout for the grass root changes in social system with balance uniform growth in the above said four pillars. It demands for reintroducing an affectionate family system again and fundamental education that dollars cannot always bring happiness and peace but where the real happiness and peace lie. Harshad Dave Email: hhdave15@gmail.com On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 9:25 PM, Glassman, Michael wrote: > Fernando and Monica, > > This is what is happening is the United States today, > > https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/03/students- > from-thousands-of-schools-stage-a-walkout-to-protest- > gun-violence-and-honor-parkland-victims.html > > It is nothing less than extraordinary. Many are trying to limit this > to gun violence but I wonder, based on your article, if it will soon > transform into another movement. But I think it goes to show how the > work you have done, if only a beginning, is really important. I feel > like we have missed this in U.S. academic circles. There is what is > basically an idiotic article on fake news in the most recent Science, > supposed to be our flagship. > > I feel like we have to hit the re-set button on understanding what is > going on and the role that what you call human-technology interaction > is playing. > > I have a question for some activity theorists if they are interested > in responding. In some ways what is going on does mirror an activity > model, the multi-level reciprocal transformation (unless I am > misunderstanding something). But as I said in an earlier message there > is nobody coming in doing an intervention, the transformation itself > is organic, more Dewey oriented I would say (I think maybe Friere > also). Is there room for this in activity theory? > > Michael > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Fernando Cunha > Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 3:03 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity ; mike > cole > Cc: Lemos, Monica > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian > schools > > Dear all, > I really appreciate the discussion so far, and I liked the way some of > you used some metaphors. It was far from our intention to reinvent the > wheel or to use flint stones to light fire. What I think it is > important is that there is no "if" in human history, and we are where > we are because we transform the places we live, as well as the tools > we use. We can for sure ride horses in the cities, but the horses > would sweat so much (considering the asphalt roads), that in a matter of hours they would die. > > Since life is forward, we tried to show in our article a small part of > what the movements organized by the students were.It is important to > highlight, that despite people that were not in favor of protests > (including some students!), it was the first time in Brazilian history > that students (who were not supposed to interfere) interfered in a > political decision. And they did so not only by using Facebook. As we > mention in our paper, Facebook is one aspect of the protests, and we > considered it as a mediational communicative tool. As I mentioned > before in this answer, we as human beings use tools that are > available, reshape them, and sometimes use them for a purpose that is completely different from the original idea. > I myself am a secondary education teacher, and I am also a researcher > because I am a secondary education teacher. We may have different > points of view when you research something as an outsider, and when > you participate (not as an ethnographer), but as a subject of the > group. In my humble opinion, we are still trying to conceptualize (and > stabilize) things that move faster than we can handle as scientists, > or to compare contexts that cannot be compared. > > I am looking forward to your reactions. > Best regards, > > > __________________________Fernando R. Cunha J?nior, PhD. > > http://fernandorcjr.wordpress.com > > > Em segunda-feira, 12 de mar?o de 2018 21:05:34 BRT, mike cole < > mcole@ucsd.edu> escreveu: > > Alfredo et al > > I read this message before reading the prior one. You are making the > point I was trying to make regarding discussion of the paper. > In our everyday lives we are experiencing a change in the wind (to use > a metaphor that Dylan made famous at another such time). > HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS ARE DISRUPTING THINGS AS USUAL for the first time > in my life. Call it 65 years. > > And we are academics and some of us are are paid to theorize such matters. > To theorize the social organization of society was Hugh's description > of the social sciences. In most American Universities, Psychology (cap > P) is located in the social sciences. > Do we approach the problem from "below" as psychologists? Do we > approach it from "above" as sociologists and political scientists? > Can you link the Leontiev who writes about the nature of human > consciousness, psychologically speaking and conducts experiments in > the laboratory that look for all the world like what goes on in my > psychology department, AND as someone who can help understand the > growth of social movements? This may also be a way to address and > understanding of the overlap and variability in the ideas of Vygotsky and Friere. > > Monica and Fernando must be reeling from all the complicated English > we are spewing. I look forward to the discussion. > > Still worrying about Figure 3! I know I need to be able to interpret > it but I am doing a lousy job. > > mike > > > On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 5:34 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > > wrote: > > > Thanks for finding and sharing the link, Andy, and thanks Michael > > and Mike for bringing the absolutely relevant connection to Parklands. > > > > There was not so long ago a discussion here as well as in a couple > > of articles in MCA about how crises leading to development most > > often result from quantitative increments that lead to qualitative > > leaps such that new forms of organization emerge from previous ones. > > So, David, I don't see why increments in the pace of circulation > > (e.g., of > > information) would not be expected to bring with them changes in the > > organisation of the whole economy system. I would not say that > > social media is just bringing a lot more of the same, just as I > > would not a priori reject the possibility that bringing a lot more > > of the same might not end up bringing new qualitative forms of > > communicating. The observation that "like" is intransitive in > > Facebook is interesting; but to me it needs to be put in its larger > > context of use. And so, are we analysing Facebook as a grammar > > closed up in itself, or as one more > chain in a larger grammar of possible cooperation? > > > > I am myself concerned that Social Media like Facebook may be > > amplifying dichotomical thinking beyond the innocuous and often > > way-to-verbose essays we academics enjoy entertaining with much more > > complex verbal forms than Facebook's intransitive "likes", only that > > the confrontations now seem to be moving to family's dinner tables, > > quarrels among protesters in public squares, or previously unheard > > of incarcerations for publishing tweets and rap songs that critique > > the crown in a supposedly modern democracy like Spain (e.g.: > > http://cadenaser.com/ser/2018/02/20/tribunales/1519135083_ > > 106543.html). But the article here discussed also shows that there > > are forms of organization that these technologies are affording that > > may bring more positive changes, like the case again in Spain of > > March 8th women's strike, the extent of which no politician or > > journalist had anticipated and which led the government to quickly > > adopt a much more equity-friendly discourse than even the evening > > before (https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=4_11iIELdfc). So, no, > > probably that one strike, or that one social media that may have > > made it possible, won't change the system. But they seem to > > incrementally add to > something, don't they? > > > > Alfredo Jornet > > ________________________________ > > New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and > > intransitive dimensions" > > Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > > > > ________________________________________ > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > on behalf of Andy Blunden > > > > Sent: 12 March 2018 06:39 > > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian > > schools > > > > That headline does not exist, but is it this: > > > > https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/07/us/parkland-students-social-media > > .h > > tml > > > > Andy > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Andy Blunden > > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > > On 12/03/2018 4:02 PM, mike cole wrote: > > > Michael - I have been trying to find a digital copy of a story in > > > today's NY Times titled "the social media warriors of parkland." > > > For some reason > > it > > > is not visible on the digital version.... yet. Maybe someone out > > >there in xmca-land can find it for us? I will check again in the > > >morning to see if it appears. > > > It seems especially relevant to Monica and Fernando's > > >article, and > > to > > > David's comment that " it is very hard for me to pinpoint any > > > actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made > > possible by > > > Facebook." The voices and forms of speaking used by the students > > > was > > not, > > > so far as I could tell, the source of data. There are no > > > quotations of > > any > > > students speaking differently. I assumed that this article was > > > about collective action. > > > Monica and Fernando - I confess I had difficulty following parts > > > of the article, perhaps because I am a very seldom user of > > > Facebook. In particular, I had difficulty understanding Figure 3. > > > Were the people who started M1 also those who started M2-M3? ( " > > > Once students achieved the object of the activity?in the first > > > case, to avoid the closure of the schools?they focused the > > > protests on another > object"). > > > > > > Did the M4 people get the idea from M1 through a FB connection form M1? > > Did > > > you get any sense of what distinguished pages that got a few > > > hundred > > versus > > > 10,000 reactions? > > > > > > Harshad - Did you think the article failed to consider social issues? > > There > > > is no information about you on the xmca membership page, so it is > > > difficult to know from what part of the world you are writing. > > > Unless I miss my guess, some people will wonder at your use of the > > > word "man" where the local practice might put "humankind" or some > > > other gender inclusive term. > > > > > > David - Daylight saving time tonight so I find myself "working > > > late." It got me to wondering how many people live in Seoul. A > > > lot, > it turns out. > > > About 9-10 million. That got me to wondering about how much faster > > > all those people would be getting around on horses with all the > > > horse plops > > to > > > clamber over. And all that hay to haul into town for the morning > > > rush hour. :-) > > > > > > mike > > > > > > On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Glassman, Michael > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > >> Hi David, > > >> > > >> I'm sure those meddling kids won't come back on your lawn any > > >> time > soon. > > >> > > >> But really, the article did not say Facebook is a new type of > > technology. > > >> I believe they said that it's a form of human-technology > > >> interaction and suggested perhaps social media was a new type of > > >> human-technology interaction. I don't agree with this phrasing. > > >> I tend to think of > > Facebook > > >> more as an application of Internet technology - but either way > > >> Facebook > > is > > >> just a form or an application. Is the internetworking of > > >> computer, radio and satellite communication an enormous step > > >> forward in how humans communicate. I think so - it's really > > >> extraordinary on a number of > > levels > > >> but that's really not the conversation for this article. > > >> > > >> I do think the authors have done an analysis that is interesting > > >> and possibly important, especially when one considers what is > > >> currently > > going > > >> on down in Parkland (some might be happy to know that, at least > > >> from > > what I > > >> have read, Facebook isn't dominant or even that important for > > >> these students. Adults have been using it more for larger > > >> organizational > > events > > >> like the March 14 walkout and the March 24 march). I have read > > >> some articles on organizing on online forums (and actually wrote > > >> a not very > > good > > >> one a few years back). Most of them are communications based an > > >> don't > > have > > >> strong theoretical underpinning which is why I think this article > > >> might > > be > > >> an important step forward. > > >> > > >> I think the idea of using third generation activity theory might > > >> be a > > good > > >> idea for this type of analysis. I myself have seen ties between > > >> the trialogical approach being developed by Hakkareinan and > > >> Paavola and > > what is > > >> going on down in Parkland. The students are creating their own > > >> projects > > and > > >> then getting the larger community to buy in to and support what > > >> they are doing which is in turn changing the quality of their > > >> activities. I have > > my > > >> own ideas on why this is suddenly happening and direct > > >> communication technologies like Twitter and texting (which seem > > >> primary vehicles) are only part of it. > > >> > > >> Anyway, this particular article I think is really timely and > > >> should give us a lot to think about. > > >> > > >> Michael > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > >> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg > > >> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2018 6:03 PM > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in > > >> Brazilian > > schools > > >> > > >> So in the fifteenth century, Gutenberg exapted extant technology > > >> already widely available in China and published a single text > > >> using moveable > > type > > >> which started a profound intellectual, cultural, and social > > >> revolution whose effects we still feel today: the rise of > > >> Protestantism, the Counter-Reformation in, among other places, > > >> Brazil, the Wars of > > Religion in > > >> France, the vicissitudes of a multii-confessional (political) > > >> State and ultimately those of a multi-confessional > > >> (psychological) state, In the twentieth century, Ford similarly > > >> exapted extant technology, this time nearly two millenia later > > >> than China, and mass-produced automobiles > > using > > >> Taylorism, forcing everybody to buy an identical product with > > >> interchangeable parts made by factories with interchangeable workers. > > >> The automobile "revolution" did not even give us new roads, and > > >> in Seoul today traffic moves notably slower than it would on > > >> horseback. Clearly, there are some forms of technology that are > > >> actually semiogenic--and > > others > > >> which merely circulate capital at a faster rate and actually slow > > >> the movement of people and new ideas. > > >> > > >> So my question is very simple. How do we know that "Facebook" > > >> (which as the name implies was originally designed to help > > >> Harvard freshmen decide which classmates were sufficiently hot to > > >> "like") is really one of the former technologies?.There are very > > >> clear signs , beyond the obvious > > ones > > >> surrounding the American origins, that it belongs to the latter > > category, > > >> and not a few of them appear in this very article. First of all, > > >> the authors are honest enough to associate Facebook with > > >> reactionary, xenophobic, populist movements like the clowns who > > >> run > the "Five Stars" > > >> movement in Italy. Second, on the very first page, the authors > > >> try but > > do > > >> not really seem to be able to distinguish between the "post first > > >> and organize later" technologies of Occupy Wall Street and the > > >> use of social media by the four movements in the article > > >> (including one actually > > called > > >> "Occupy Everything"). And thirdly, it is very hard for me to > > >> pinpoint > > any > > >> actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was > > >> made > > possible > > >> by Facebook. If anything, Facebook seems to narrow semiogenic > > >> power to a single consumer/computer menu. Ford said, you can get > > >> a Model A in any color you like so long as it's black. Facebook > > >> tells us the same thing, > > but > > >> makes the verb "like" intransitive. > > >> > > >> David Kellogg > > >> Sangmyung University > > >> > > >> Recent Article in *Early Years* > > >> > > >> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, > > >> and the child?s first interrogatives > > >> > >> doi/full/10.1080/09575146.2018.1431874> > > >> > > >> Free e-print available at: > > >> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full > > >> > > >> > > >> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 7:30 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >>> Dear xmca'ers, > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> it is (bit over) due time for introducing the article for > > >>> discussion from MCA's 2018 Issue 1, before Issue 2 comes upon us > soon. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> The selected article, by Monica Ferreira Lemos and Fernando > > >>> Rezende da Cunha J?nior, is about two topics that were > > >>> thematised in the last ISCAR congress and that ought to be of > > >>> much relevance to current and future CHAT-related research: > > >>> Social media and social movements. In particular, the article > > >>> examines how students use social media for the organization and > > >>> development of 4 social > movements in Brazil. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> The article is attached and is Free access during the discussion > > period. > > >>> It can be accessed free in the following link: > > >>> > > >>> https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2017.13798 > > >>> 23 > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> The authors have kindly agreed to participate in the discussion > > >>> and they will be introducing themselves soon. I hope you will > > >>> find the article interesting and please don't be shy to share > > >>> anything you might have learned reading it, anything you might > > >>> wonder about it or that you would like see discussed. Having > > >>> authors engage in dialogue is a great opportunity that this > > >>> community offers and that makes sense the most when many of you > participate. Good reading! > > >>> > > >>> ? > > >>> > > >>> Alfredo Jornet > > >>> > > >>> New article in *Design Studies* "Imagning Design: Transitive and > > >>> intransitive dimensions" > > >>> Free print available: > > >>> https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > > >>> > > >> > > > > > > From dkellogg60@gmail.com Thu Mar 15 16:42:13 2018 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2018 08:42:13 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools In-Reply-To: <52994747-6e21-60ea-d3a8-8558cd0b3686@marxists.org> References: <1520721034406.59651@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF245E@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <0bdd10ce-7411-8083-533f-44fcfb50e928@marxists.org> <1520858083490.87795@iped.uio.no> <2017557051.756650.1520967771201@mail.yahoo.com> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF29C7@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <52994747-6e21-60ea-d3a8-8558cd0b3686@marxists.org> Message-ID: On the one hand, Andy dislikes the formulation of Leontiev and of Fernando and of Monica: it won't do to say that objects arise out of needs because this is essentially circular, much like the dominant view of the ZPD: Objects are defined by needs that motivate them and needs by objects that satisfy them, just as zones of proximal development are defined by what the child can do with assistance and what the child can do with assistance is what measures the ZPD. That's why Andy says that the idea that objects arise out of needs is a non sequitur, unless it's tautological. On the other hand, Vygotsky DOES say that needs should be defined broadly as anything that is a motive for action (first page, Ch. 7, Mind in Society, if my memory is right). And Marx DOES say that human beings only set themselves those tasks for which the solutions are already present or almost so. And Ruqaiya Hasan points out that the reason why human language can satisfy so many human demands is that human language is itself the source of those demands. How can these apparently contradictory views be reconciled? Not, as Andy proposes, by saying that there is simply no solution whatsoever. When Lenin arrived at Finland Station in Petrograd in April 1917, the Mensheviks were making "minimalist" demands like the eight hour day, land reform, and a ceasefire with Germany, while the Social Revolutionaries maximally demanded an immediate form of urban commune, reversion to the commons, and international revolution. What Lenin did was to put forward a transitional programme: one that was both more minimalist than the Menshevik one and more maximalist than the Social Revolunary one, which got to be known as the "three whales": "bread" (entailing, as it turned out, workers control of bakeries), "land" (entailing, as it turned out, confiscation of all landed estates) and "peace" (entailing revolution in Germany). This is actually why Vygotsky refers to Piaget's books as the "three whales" in Chapter 2 of Thinking and Speech. As an American growing up in the rural Midwest, I learned to handle weapons as a child (my wife learned the use of firearms as part of physical education in her factory school in China). It's an important and very useful skill, and it entails a whole set of concepts that I readily recognize here in Korea (for example, one of my students is complaining that during live fire drills here they have to arrange for backdrops for every bullet fired, otherwise they are forced to search the firing range until they can account for every round). These concepts and even these skills are, obviously, incompatible with school shootings (and in fact it seems to me that one of the biggest problems with arming teachers is that teachers, unlike school shooters, have to worry about backdrops and collateral damage). They are a necessary part--but only a part--of a transitional programme to end school violence. In that sense I think that Harshad is right--it's all about the culture: the well-regulated militia versus the school shooting gaming culture, Hollywood shoot-em-ups, and of course a political culture of perpetual foreign wars which supposedly have no domestic consequences. But cultures require collectivities, and a well-regulated militia to control school violence requires a teachers' union defense guard. I don't think that Andy's example of an off-duty cop who ended up shooting a student is germane here. Here's an example that is more relevnat. In Chicago in the mid-seventies, when there were threats against a black brother's life and family, the United Auto Workers Class Struggle Caucus set up an informal 24 hour guard over his home. We were armed to the teeth, and as a result we never fired a shot. David Kellogg Sangmyung University Recent Article in *Early Years* The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and the child?s first interrogatives Free e-print available at: https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 10:05 PM, Andy Blunden wrote: > Harshad, in the American context I think "family values" is > exactly what is not going to solve the problem of gun > violence - if indeed anything can "solve" it at all. > > It is civic participation. By committing themselves to solve > this problem through protest, debate and civic action, > demanding that Congresspeople act in the public interest - > these schoolkids are doing exactly the kind of thing that > can make some progress. > > On the other hand, the consciousness that says (and this is > what many American men think) "It is *my* responsibility to > defend *my* family, so I demand *my* right to have a gun to > shoot anyone who comes near *my* house and *my family*" is > what the gun culture feeds on. > > That's my take ... safely on the other side of the Pacific > Ocean. > > Andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > On 15/03/2018 11:54 PM, Harshad Dave wrote: > > 15 March 2018. > > > > Dear friends, > > > > I write here with reference to email message from Michael (Wed, Mar 14, > > 2018 at 9:25 PM). As far as protest for gun control and debate on it is > > concerned, I put some views here. > > > > We all are aware that this is not the first event of open fire on school > > students as well as mass killing with gun fire on public place (recall > Las > > Vegas shooting and other). Right from beginning, when Columbus discovered > > the New World, the road of establishing civilized society on continent > > America was not a comfortable one. The people passed through challenges, > > hardship and peril in day to day life during the travel on the road. This > > journey moulded a responsible and wisdom full culture in the blood of > > people living there. They fought for independence and emerged with a > unity > > named USA, they sustained with and sacrificed in civil war, they passed > > through the severe recession of 1930 after World War I, and they fought > > thousands of kilometres away from native place along with allied nations > in > > World War II. These all are the untold, unwritten qualification of the > > people of the time that decorated with a right of freedom to keep weapons > > with them. We never heard of such insane events of mass killing in this > > society in the history of this people though freedom to keep gun/weapon > was > > and has been a right. > > > > [NB: Please note, I am neither in favour nor in opposition to the > protest. > > I try to just bring one point of consideration to the reader.] > > > > After August 1945, USA emerged with some exceptional lead over other > > nations of the world. If we consider a period of 25 years as generation > > change, the third and fourth generation constitutes present youth. Those > > who were born in and after August 1945 could study the history of the > above > > path that was traveled by their ancestors. There is much difference > between > > reading a history and making living in the same history. > > > > Moreover, I recall the words of President Roosevelt, ?*The only limit to > > our realization of tomorrow will be our doubts of today.*? It brought a > new > > style and different culture with comfortable life and inexperienced > > thinking and thoughts in new generations. The emerging social > constitution > > of society in USA and its systems as well as institutions grew with a > rapid > > progress and incessant changes. Majority people believe that ?*dollars?* > is > > the ultimate key towards happiness and peace. Institutions and system of > > society worked as if ?*science and technology?* has the entire competency > > to settle any social problem. > > > > Wise people.... perhaps... failed to understand that our society is > stable > > and balance on four pillars.... they (pillars) are Philosophy, Ethics and > > Religion, Science and Technology and Economics. Uneven growth in one or > > more pillars will destabilize the society. Now a day, we are searching > all > > the answers of social issues from *science and technology*. We try to > sort > > out every problem through *dollars* only, and we do not know if it is > > sorted out or postponed. Neither we honestly give adequate stress on > > ethical value nor do we have uniform philosophy on which our society > might > > rest. Family system is all most paralyzed. Youth are encouraged or > > instigated to be independent and self sufficient as soon as they reach > at a > > prescribed age. We treat them as freedom to youth. Our youth mass is not > > aware of all this fact and every street and corners are equipped with a > > net-work to misleading the youth. > > > > Now, this mass of the youth protests with an esteemed trust that the > > subject gun law will bring a safety. They never know, ?*Safety never come > > from the enacted laws, it does come from the healthy and balanced social > > system.*? Presently, it seems to me that protesters are with a trust to > > bring safety by introducing the subject gun law, but the events of > > shootings shout for the grass root changes in social system with balance > > uniform growth in the above said four pillars. It demands for > reintroducing > > an affectionate family system again and fundamental education that > dollars > > cannot always bring happiness and peace but where the real happiness and > > peace lie. > > > > Harshad Dave > > > > Email: hhdave15@gmail.com > > On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 9:25 PM, Glassman, Michael > > wrote: > > > >> Fernando and Monica, > >> > >> This is what is happening is the United States today, > >> > >> https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/03/students- > >> from-thousands-of-schools-stage-a-walkout-to-protest- > >> gun-violence-and-honor-parkland-victims.html > >> > >> It is nothing less than extraordinary. Many are trying to limit this to > >> gun violence but I wonder, based on your article, if it will soon > transform > >> into another movement. But I think it goes to show how the work you have > >> done, if only a beginning, is really important. I feel like we have > missed > >> this in U.S. academic circles. There is what is basically an idiotic > >> article on fake news in the most recent Science, supposed to be our > >> flagship. > >> > >> I feel like we have to hit the re-set button on understanding what is > >> going on and the role that what you call human-technology interaction is > >> playing. > >> > >> I have a question for some activity theorists if they are interested in > >> responding. In some ways what is going on does mirror an activity model, > >> the multi-level reciprocal transformation (unless I am misunderstanding > >> something). But as I said in an earlier message there is nobody coming > in > >> doing an intervention, the transformation itself is organic, more Dewey > >> oriented I would say (I think maybe Friere also). Is there room for > this > >> in activity theory? > >> > >> Michael > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > >> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Fernando Cunha > >> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 3:03 PM > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity ; mike > cole > >> > >> Cc: Lemos, Monica > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian > schools > >> > >> Dear all, > >> I really appreciate the discussion so far, and I liked the way some of > you > >> used some metaphors. It was far from our intention to reinvent the > wheel or > >> to use flint stones to light fire. What I think it is important is that > >> there is no "if" in human history, and we are where we are because we > >> transform the places we live, as well as the tools we use. We can for > sure > >> ride horses in the cities, but the horses would sweat so much > (considering > >> the asphalt roads), that in a matter of hours they would die. > >> > >> Since life is forward, we tried to show in our article a small part of > >> what the movements organized by the students were.It is important to > >> highlight, that despite people that were not in favor of protests > >> (including some students!), it was the first time in Brazilian history > that > >> students (who were not supposed to interfere) interfered in a political > >> decision. And they did so not only by using Facebook. As we mention in > our > >> paper, Facebook is one aspect of the protests, and we considered it as a > >> mediational communicative tool. As I mentioned before in this answer, > we as > >> human beings use tools that are available, reshape them, and sometimes > use > >> them for a purpose that is completely different from the original idea. > >> I myself am a secondary education teacher, and I am also a researcher > >> because I am a secondary education teacher. We may have different > points of > >> view when you research something as an outsider, and when you > participate > >> (not as an ethnographer), but as a subject of the group. In my humble > >> opinion, we are still trying to conceptualize (and stabilize) things > that > >> move faster than we can handle as scientists, or to compare contexts > that > >> cannot be compared. > >> > >> I am looking forward to your reactions. > >> Best regards, > >> > >> > >> __________________________Fernando R. Cunha J?nior, PhD. > >> > >> http://fernandorcjr.wordpress.com > >> > >> > >> Em segunda-feira, 12 de mar?o de 2018 21:05:34 BRT, mike cole < > >> mcole@ucsd.edu> escreveu: > >> > >> Alfredo et al > >> > >> I read this message before reading the prior one. You are making the > point > >> I was trying to make regarding discussion of the paper. > >> In our everyday lives we are experiencing a change in the wind (to use a > >> metaphor that Dylan made famous at another such time). > >> HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS ARE DISRUPTING THINGS AS USUAL for the first time > in > >> my life. Call it 65 years. > >> > >> And we are academics and some of us are are paid to theorize such > matters. > >> To theorize the social organization of society was Hugh's description of > >> the social sciences. In most American Universities, Psychology (cap P) > is > >> located in the social sciences. > >> Do we approach the problem from "below" as psychologists? Do we approach > >> it from "above" as sociologists and political scientists? > >> Can you link the Leontiev who writes about the nature of human > >> consciousness, psychologically speaking and conducts experiments in the > >> laboratory that look for all the world like what goes on in my > psychology > >> department, AND as someone who can help understand the growth of social > >> movements? This may also be a way to address and understanding of the > >> overlap and variability in the ideas of Vygotsky and Friere. > >> > >> Monica and Fernando must be reeling from all the complicated English we > >> are spewing. I look forward to the discussion. > >> > >> Still worrying about Figure 3! I know I need to be able to interpret it > >> but I am doing a lousy job. > >> > >> mike > >> > >> > >> On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 5:34 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Thanks for finding and sharing the link, Andy, and thanks Michael and > >>> Mike for bringing the absolutely relevant connection to Parklands. > >>> > >>> There was not so long ago a discussion here as well as in a couple of > >>> articles in MCA about how crises leading to development most often > >>> result from quantitative increments that lead to qualitative leaps > >>> such that new forms of organization emerge from previous ones. So, > >>> David, I don't see why increments in the pace of circulation (e.g., of > >>> information) would not be expected to bring with them changes in the > >>> organisation of the whole economy system. I would not say that social > >>> media is just bringing a lot more of the same, just as I would not a > >>> priori reject the possibility that bringing a lot more of the same > >>> might not end up bringing new qualitative forms of communicating. The > >>> observation that "like" is intransitive in Facebook is interesting; > >>> but to me it needs to be put in its larger context of use. And so, are > >>> we analysing Facebook as a grammar closed up in itself, or as one more > >> chain in a larger grammar of possible cooperation? > >>> I am myself concerned that Social Media like Facebook may be > >>> amplifying dichotomical thinking beyond the innocuous and often > >>> way-to-verbose essays we academics enjoy entertaining with much more > >>> complex verbal forms than Facebook's intransitive "likes", only that > >>> the confrontations now seem to be moving to family's dinner tables, > >>> quarrels among protesters in public squares, or previously unheard of > >>> incarcerations for publishing tweets and rap songs that critique the > >>> crown in a supposedly modern democracy like Spain (e.g.: > >>> http://cadenaser.com/ser/2018/02/20/tribunales/1519135083_ > >>> 106543.html). But the article here discussed also shows that there are > >>> forms of organization that these technologies are affording that may > >>> bring more positive changes, like the case again in Spain of March 8th > >>> women's strike, the extent of which no politician or journalist had > >>> anticipated and which led the government to quickly adopt a much more > >>> equity-friendly discourse than even the evening before > >>> (https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=4_11iIELdfc). So, no, probably that > >>> one strike, or that one social media that may have made it possible, > >>> won't change the system. But they seem to incrementally add to > >> something, don't they? > >>> Alfredo Jornet > >>> ________________________________ > >>> New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and > >>> intransitive dimensions" > >>> Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > >>> > >>> ________________________________________ > >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >>> on behalf of Andy Blunden > >>> > >>> Sent: 12 March 2018 06:39 > >>> To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian > >>> schools > >>> > >>> That headline does not exist, but is it this: > >>> > >>> https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/07/us/parkland-students-social-media.h > >>> tml > >>> > >>> Andy > >>> > >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ > >>> Andy Blunden > >>> ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > >>> On 12/03/2018 4:02 PM, mike cole wrote: > >>>> Michael - I have been trying to find a digital copy of a story in > >>>> today's NY Times titled "the social media warriors of parkland." For > >>>> some reason > >>> it > >>>> is not visible on the digital version.... yet. Maybe someone out > >>>> there in xmca-land can find it for us? I will check again in the > >>>> morning to see if it appears. > >>>> It seems especially relevant to Monica and Fernando's article, > >>>> and > >>> to > >>>> David's comment that " it is very hard for me to pinpoint any > >>>> actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made > >>> possible by > >>>> Facebook." The voices and forms of speaking used by the students > >>>> was > >>> not, > >>>> so far as I could tell, the source of data. There are no quotations > >>>> of > >>> any > >>>> students speaking differently. I assumed that this article was about > >>>> collective action. > >>>> Monica and Fernando - I confess I had difficulty following parts of > >>>> the article, perhaps because I am a very seldom user of Facebook. In > >>>> particular, I had difficulty understanding Figure 3. Were the > >>>> people who started M1 also those who started M2-M3? ( " Once > >>>> students achieved the object of the activity?in the first case, to > >>>> avoid the closure of the schools?they focused the protests on another > >> object"). > >>>> Did the M4 people get the idea from M1 through a FB connection form > M1? > >>> Did > >>>> you get any sense of what distinguished pages that got a few hundred > >>> versus > >>>> 10,000 reactions? > >>>> > >>>> Harshad - Did you think the article failed to consider social issues? > >>> There > >>>> is no information about you on the xmca membership page, so it is > >>>> difficult to know from what part of the world you are writing. > >>>> Unless I miss my guess, some people will wonder at your use of the > >>>> word "man" where the local practice might put "humankind" or some > >>>> other gender inclusive term. > >>>> > >>>> David - Daylight saving time tonight so I find myself "working > >>>> late." It got me to wondering how many people live in Seoul. A lot, > >> it turns out. > >>>> About 9-10 million. That got me to wondering about how much faster > >>>> all those people would be getting around on horses with all the > >>>> horse plops > >>> to > >>>> clamber over. And all that hay to haul into town for the morning > >>>> rush hour. :-) > >>>> > >>>> mike > >>>> > >>>> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Glassman, Michael > >>>> > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Hi David, > >>>>> > >>>>> I'm sure those meddling kids won't come back on your lawn any time > >> soon. > >>>>> But really, the article did not say Facebook is a new type of > >>> technology. > >>>>> I believe they said that it's a form of human-technology > >>>>> interaction and suggested perhaps social media was a new type of > >>>>> human-technology interaction. I don't agree with this phrasing. I > >>>>> tend to think of > >>> Facebook > >>>>> more as an application of Internet technology - but either way > >>>>> Facebook > >>> is > >>>>> just a form or an application. Is the internetworking of computer, > >>>>> radio and satellite communication an enormous step forward in how > >>>>> humans communicate. I think so - it's really extraordinary on a > >>>>> number of > >>> levels > >>>>> but that's really not the conversation for this article. > >>>>> > >>>>> I do think the authors have done an analysis that is interesting > >>>>> and possibly important, especially when one considers what is > >>>>> currently > >>> going > >>>>> on down in Parkland (some might be happy to know that, at least > >>>>> from > >>> what I > >>>>> have read, Facebook isn't dominant or even that important for these > >>>>> students. Adults have been using it more for larger organizational > >>> events > >>>>> like the March 14 walkout and the March 24 march). I have read > >>>>> some articles on organizing on online forums (and actually wrote a > >>>>> not very > >>> good > >>>>> one a few years back). Most of them are communications based an > >>>>> don't > >>> have > >>>>> strong theoretical underpinning which is why I think this article > >>>>> might > >>> be > >>>>> an important step forward. > >>>>> > >>>>> I think the idea of using third generation activity theory might be > >>>>> a > >>> good > >>>>> idea for this type of analysis. I myself have seen ties between the > >>>>> trialogical approach being developed by Hakkareinan and Paavola and > >>> what is > >>>>> going on down in Parkland. The students are creating their own > >>>>> projects > >>> and > >>>>> then getting the larger community to buy in to and support what > >>>>> they are doing which is in turn changing the quality of their > >>>>> activities. I have > >>> my > >>>>> own ideas on why this is suddenly happening and direct > >>>>> communication technologies like Twitter and texting (which seem > >>>>> primary vehicles) are only part of it. > >>>>> > >>>>> Anyway, this particular article I think is really timely and should > >>>>> give us a lot to think about. > >>>>> > >>>>> Michael > >>>>> > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > >>>>> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg > >>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2018 6:03 PM > >>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian > >>> schools > >>>>> So in the fifteenth century, Gutenberg exapted extant technology > >>>>> already widely available in China and published a single text using > >>>>> moveable > >>> type > >>>>> which started a profound intellectual, cultural, and social > >>>>> revolution whose effects we still feel today: the rise of > >>>>> Protestantism, the Counter-Reformation in, among other places, > >>>>> Brazil, the Wars of > >>> Religion in > >>>>> France, the vicissitudes of a multii-confessional (political) State > >>>>> and ultimately those of a multi-confessional (psychological) state, > >>>>> In the twentieth century, Ford similarly exapted extant technology, > >>>>> this time nearly two millenia later than China, and mass-produced > >>>>> automobiles > >>> using > >>>>> Taylorism, forcing everybody to buy an identical product with > >>>>> interchangeable parts made by factories with interchangeable workers. > >>>>> The automobile "revolution" did not even give us new roads, and in > >>>>> Seoul today traffic moves notably slower than it would on > >>>>> horseback. Clearly, there are some forms of technology that are > >>>>> actually semiogenic--and > >>> others > >>>>> which merely circulate capital at a faster rate and actually slow > >>>>> the movement of people and new ideas. > >>>>> > >>>>> So my question is very simple. How do we know that "Facebook" > >>>>> (which as the name implies was originally designed to help Harvard > >>>>> freshmen decide which classmates were sufficiently hot to "like") > >>>>> is really one of the former technologies?.There are very clear > >>>>> signs , beyond the obvious > >>> ones > >>>>> surrounding the American origins, that it belongs to the latter > >>> category, > >>>>> and not a few of them appear in this very article. First of all, > >>>>> the authors are honest enough to associate Facebook with > >>>>> reactionary, xenophobic, populist movements like the clowns who run > >> the "Five Stars" > >>>>> movement in Italy. Second, on the very first page, the authors try > >>>>> but > >>> do > >>>>> not really seem to be able to distinguish between the "post first > >>>>> and organize later" technologies of Occupy Wall Street and the use > >>>>> of social media by the four movements in the article (including one > >>>>> actually > >>> called > >>>>> "Occupy Everything"). And thirdly, it is very hard for me to > >>>>> pinpoint > >>> any > >>>>> actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made > >>> possible > >>>>> by Facebook. If anything, Facebook seems to narrow semiogenic power > >>>>> to a single consumer/computer menu. Ford said, you can get a Model > >>>>> A in any color you like so long as it's black. Facebook tells us > >>>>> the same thing, > >>> but > >>>>> makes the verb "like" intransitive. > >>>>> > >>>>> David Kellogg > >>>>> Sangmyung University > >>>>> > >>>>> Recent Article in *Early Years* > >>>>> > >>>>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, > >>>>> and the child?s first interrogatives >>>>> doi/full/10.1080/09575146.2018.1431874> > >>>>> > >>>>> Free e-print available at: > >>>>> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 7:30 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > >>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Dear xmca'ers, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> it is (bit over) due time for introducing the article for > >>>>>> discussion from MCA's 2018 Issue 1, before Issue 2 comes upon us > >> soon. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> The selected article, by Monica Ferreira Lemos and Fernando > >>>>>> Rezende da Cunha J?nior, is about two topics that were thematised > >>>>>> in the last ISCAR congress and that ought to be of much relevance > >>>>>> to current and future CHAT-related research: Social media and > >>>>>> social movements. In particular, the article examines how students > >>>>>> use social media for the organization and development of 4 social > >> movements in Brazil. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> The article is attached and is Free access during the discussion > >>> period. > >>>>>> It can be accessed free in the following link: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2017.1379823 > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> The authors have kindly agreed to participate in the discussion > >>>>>> and they will be introducing themselves soon. I hope you will > >>>>>> find the article interesting and please don't be shy to share > >>>>>> anything you might have learned reading it, anything you might > >>>>>> wonder about it or that you would like see discussed. Having > >>>>>> authors engage in dialogue is a great opportunity that this > >>>>>> community offers and that makes sense the most when many of you > >> participate. Good reading! > >>>>>> ? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Alfredo Jornet > >>>>>> > >>>>>> New article in *Design Studies* "Imagning Design: Transitive and > >>>>>> intransitive dimensions" > >>>>>> Free print available: > >>>>>> https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > >>>>>> > >>> > >> > > From mcole@ucsd.edu Thu Mar 15 16:50:27 2018 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2018 23:50:27 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: [commfac] [commdept] Reminder - Monday, 3/19 deadline for Open Recruitment of 2018-19 lecturers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Seems like there should be someone out there on XMCA Who could have fun teaching courses here at UCSD for a year . Mike ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Gayle Aruta Date: Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 3:55 PM Subject: [commfac] [commdept] Reminder - Monday, 3/19 deadline for Open Recruitment of 2018-19 lecturers To: comm dept Lecturer 2018-2019 Academic Year We are seeking applicants for Lecturer appointments for the 2018-19 academic year (Unit 18-Non-Senate Faculty) level. The application numbered JPF01685 may be found at on the UCSD Recruit site . Prospective applicants should refer to the list of proposed courses when submitting an application. Applications will be considered after the following deadline: March 19 for Fall, Winter and/or Spring quarters; September 24, for Winter and/or Spring quarters and January 21, 2019 for Spring quarter only. -- Gayle Aruta Management Services Officer Department of Communication Urban Studies and Planning Program University of California, San Diego 9500 Gilman Drive La Jolla, CA 92093 -0503 (01) 858-534-4895 (01) 858-534-7315 (fax) From Peg.Griffin@att.net Fri Mar 16 10:48:13 2018 From: Peg.Griffin@att.net (Peg Griffin) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2018 13:48:13 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools In-Reply-To: <1521156905718.23564@iped.uio.no> References: <1520721034406.59651@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF245E@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <0bdd10ce-7411-8083-533f-44fcfb50e928@marxists.org> <1520858083490.87795@iped.uio.no> <2017557051.756650.1520967771201@mail.yahoo.com> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF29C7@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> , <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF2B93@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <1521156905718.23564@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: <001e01d3bd4e$f531b290$df9517b0$@att.net> Here's a relevant link: http://badassteachers.blogspot.com/ The Badass Teachers Association has existed for a few years now. This is a blog with several posts by teachers who experienced the March 14 Walkouts in the US. The blog entries reflect a few different situations and institutions that the Badass Teachers and their students experience (note that the last blog entry extends from the Walkouts to Teacher Strikes and more). While I learned a lot from the account of the four movements in Brazil and plan to learn more, here's a bit of a wondering that I have: When I work with/for our young activists in the US, as time goes by, I almost always find there's something said about the young activists pasts. They have participated in movements where peers further along in some ways, and sometimes adults further along in some ways, collaborated. The young activists did what they could when they could and took in a "whole" event which in many ways they merely understood but marching and chanting and drawing were really effective so they were engaged! These young activists then externalized what they had taken in in all the ways they are doing now ... And the teachers and the rest of us got further along, too! The day before yesterday I was witnessing a Senate hearing. When the hearing lies and evasions got terribly redundant, one of the Moms Demand Action members seated next to me looked down to a live stream on her phone of her daughter and classmates rallying outside the White House. Other members remember the daughter tagging along to lobbying and hearings and rallies and marches for years and the live stream and hugs went around a couple of rows of us. Eventually those White House protesting students marched from the White House to Capitol Hill and the mom soon left to meet her daughter's group outside. Inside, we were astonished at how much we were getting away with without the powers that be warning we would be tossed out. Maybe it's the times that are a changing or maybe it was just that our slogan t-shirts, finger snaps, humphs and yesses were mild in contrast to the Code Pink folks a few rows away -- great costumes and liberty crowns and great signs. All sorts of forbidden expressive delights in a hearing run by Grassley. By the way, Randi Weingarten who is president of the AFT (one of the two prominent and somewhat staid teachers unions in the US) shocked many in a recent e-mail when she easily referred to the Badass Teachers Association as one of her co-leaders in the coalition of forty organizations working on the April 20 National Actions in the continuing move against gun violence. (Adults are organizing the expansion of this anniversary of the Columbine Massacre,) Badass, hardcore, throwing shade -- those are some of my newly nuanced vocabulary items that young activists have led me to learn in the past year and a half. And I'm attaching an amazing piece of art work -- the artist is also quite the author of the written word. Peg -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Alfredo Jornet Gil Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2018 7:35 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools Just as a note to Harshad's and Michael's comments, and with the hope to, although through a little detour, somehow re-connect with the article (at least with the topic of social media, youth, and social mobilisation): Today, in Reykjavik, we were in a meeting discussing opportunities and challenges that emerge when educators try to implement makerspaces activities with young children (5-6 years old), now that those have become fashionable and educators are trying to see what's good in there. In the meeting, there were experienced kindergarten teachers, science center organisers, artist researchers, "just plain postdocs" and the likes, all of whom have experience and passion about children and learning. We all agreed that most of the problems in attempting to implement makerspaces-like activities with younger children had to do with the failure of the adults to appreciate and let the children own and make the space theirs, which we find is the whole point of a maker space. We pointed out our failure to see and listen how the kids see and listen, so as to help them make. While many of us, adults, in those situations tend to attend to the verb "to make" in the transitive, as in "she makes some*thing*", thereby focusing on some end in mind that provides with a model against which to exert correction, we forget that, in most cases, the kids are in fact *making* (in the intransitive, without object), and that it is in the making that the possibility of the end object emerges. Instead of supporting them, appreciating the heart of what making means?in praxis?we tend to suffocate them, narrowing the space so that it no longer is a makerspace, or at least not one even close to their regular kindergarten spaces. Similarly, I am reluctant here to follow the lead that "mass youth is mislead," at least not before I try to carefully and respectfully attend to where they are at, what *their* world and space is, and what they say. For yes, the words "safety" or "Girls clothing in school is more regulated than GUNS in America" may not sound as erudite and profound as more complex statements about the relations between Philosophy, Science, Ethics, and Economy (all with capital letter). But the fact is that the magic, the future, humanity in fact, is in their saying. So I would listen, but not with the narrow backward view of us adults who already know, but from the prospective forward view of those who grow. And this is not to say that they are right or that they are wrong; that would be, I think, missing the point. Even though, I must say, the messages too, like "your prayers do nothing," are quite convincing to me. Alfredo Jornet ________________________________ New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and intransitive dimensions" Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Glassman, Michael Sent: 15 March 2018 15:36 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools Hi Harshad, Sometimes it is the obvious not the obscure. If you want a hungry person to not be hungry anymore you give them food. A student of mind did a great study on homelessness. Basically the best thing you can do to avoid homelessness is you give people homes. And if you want people to stop shooting each other with guns you take away their guns. Don't forget also that the nuclear family is something we pretty much made up over the last few centuries. Michael -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Harshad Dave Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2018 8:54 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools 15 March 2018. Dear friends, I write here with reference to email message from Michael (Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 9:25 PM). As far as protest for gun control and debate on it is concerned, I put some views here. We all are aware that this is not the first event of open fire on school students as well as mass killing with gun fire on public place (recall Las Vegas shooting and other). Right from beginning, when Columbus discovered the New World, the road of establishing civilized society on continent America was not a comfortable one. The people passed through challenges, hardship and peril in day to day life during the travel on the road. This journey moulded a responsible and wisdom full culture in the blood of people living there. They fought for independence and emerged with a unity named USA, they sustained with and sacrificed in civil war, they passed through the severe recession of 1930 after World War I, and they fought thousands of kilometres away from native place along with allied nations in World War II. These all are the untold, unwritten qualification of the people of the time that decorated with a right of freedom to keep weapons with them. We never heard of such insane events of mass killing in this society in the history of this people though freedom to keep gun/weapon was and has been a right. [NB: Please note, I am neither in favour nor in opposition to the protest. I try to just bring one point of consideration to the reader.] After August 1945, USA emerged with some exceptional lead over other nations of the world. If we consider a period of 25 years as generation change, the third and fourth generation constitutes present youth. Those who were born in and after August 1945 could study the history of the above path that was traveled by their ancestors. There is much difference between reading a history and making living in the same history. Moreover, I recall the words of President Roosevelt, ?*The only limit to our realization of tomorrow will be our doubts of today.*? It brought a new style and different culture with comfortable life and inexperienced thinking and thoughts in new generations. The emerging social constitution of society in USA and its systems as well as institutions grew with a rapid progress and incessant changes. Majority people believe that ?*dollars?* is the ultimate key towards happiness and peace. Institutions and system of society worked as if ?*science and technology?* has the entire competency to settle any social problem. Wise people.... perhaps... failed to understand that our society is stable and balance on four pillars.... they (pillars) are Philosophy, Ethics and Religion, Science and Technology and Economics. Uneven growth in one or more pillars will destabilize the society. Now a day, we are searching all the answers of social issues from *science and technology*. We try to sort out every problem through *dollars* only, and we do not know if it is sorted out or postponed. Neither we honestly give adequate stress on ethical value nor do we have uniform philosophy on which our society might rest. Family system is all most paralyzed. Youth are encouraged or instigated to be independent and self sufficient as soon as they reach at a prescribed age. We treat them as freedom to youth. Our youth mass is not aware of all this fact and every street and corners are equipped with a net-work to misleading the youth. Now, this mass of the youth protests with an esteemed trust that the subject gun law will bring a safety. They never know, ?*Safety never come from the enacted laws, it does come from the healthy and balanced social system.*? Presently, it seems to me that protesters are with a trust to bring safety by introducing the subject gun law, but the events of shootings shout for the grass root changes in social system with balance uniform growth in the above said four pillars. It demands for reintroducing an affectionate family system again and fundamental education that dollars cannot always bring happiness and peace but where the real happiness and peace lie. Harshad Dave Email: hhdave15@gmail.com On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 9:25 PM, Glassman, Michael wrote: > Fernando and Monica, > > This is what is happening is the United States today, > > https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/03/students- > from-thousands-of-schools-stage-a-walkout-to-protest- > gun-violence-and-honor-parkland-victims.html > > It is nothing less than extraordinary. Many are trying to limit this > to gun violence but I wonder, based on your article, if it will soon > transform into another movement. But I think it goes to show how the > work you have done, if only a beginning, is really important. I feel > like we have missed this in U.S. academic circles. There is what is > basically an idiotic article on fake news in the most recent Science, > supposed to be our flagship. > > I feel like we have to hit the re-set button on understanding what is > going on and the role that what you call human-technology interaction > is playing. > > I have a question for some activity theorists if they are interested > in responding. In some ways what is going on does mirror an activity > model, the multi-level reciprocal transformation (unless I am > misunderstanding something). But as I said in an earlier message there > is nobody coming in doing an intervention, the transformation itself > is organic, more Dewey oriented I would say (I think maybe Friere > also). Is there room for this in activity theory? > > Michael > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Fernando Cunha > Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 3:03 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity ; mike > cole > Cc: Lemos, Monica > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian > schools > > Dear all, > I really appreciate the discussion so far, and I liked the way some of > you used some metaphors. It was far from our intention to reinvent the > wheel or to use flint stones to light fire. What I think it is > important is that there is no "if" in human history, and we are where > we are because we transform the places we live, as well as the tools > we use. We can for sure ride horses in the cities, but the horses > would sweat so much (considering the asphalt roads), that in a matter of hours they would die. > > Since life is forward, we tried to show in our article a small part of > what the movements organized by the students were.It is important to > highlight, that despite people that were not in favor of protests > (including some students!), it was the first time in Brazilian history > that students (who were not supposed to interfere) interfered in a > political decision. And they did so not only by using Facebook. As we > mention in our paper, Facebook is one aspect of the protests, and we > considered it as a mediational communicative tool. As I mentioned > before in this answer, we as human beings use tools that are > available, reshape them, and sometimes use them for a purpose that is completely different from the original idea. > I myself am a secondary education teacher, and I am also a researcher > because I am a secondary education teacher. We may have different > points of view when you research something as an outsider, and when > you participate (not as an ethnographer), but as a subject of the > group. In my humble opinion, we are still trying to conceptualize (and > stabilize) things that move faster than we can handle as scientists, > or to compare contexts that cannot be compared. > > I am looking forward to your reactions. > Best regards, > > > __________________________Fernando R. Cunha J?nior, PhD. > > http://fernandorcjr.wordpress.com > > > Em segunda-feira, 12 de mar?o de 2018 21:05:34 BRT, mike cole < > mcole@ucsd.edu> escreveu: > > Alfredo et al > > I read this message before reading the prior one. You are making the > point I was trying to make regarding discussion of the paper. > In our everyday lives we are experiencing a change in the wind (to use > a metaphor that Dylan made famous at another such time). > HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS ARE DISRUPTING THINGS AS USUAL for the first time > in my life. Call it 65 years. > > And we are academics and some of us are are paid to theorize such matters. > To theorize the social organization of society was Hugh's description > of the social sciences. In most American Universities, Psychology (cap > P) is located in the social sciences. > Do we approach the problem from "below" as psychologists? Do we > approach it from "above" as sociologists and political scientists? > Can you link the Leontiev who writes about the nature of human > consciousness, psychologically speaking and conducts experiments in > the laboratory that look for all the world like what goes on in my > psychology department, AND as someone who can help understand the > growth of social movements? This may also be a way to address and > understanding of the overlap and variability in the ideas of Vygotsky and Friere. > > Monica and Fernando must be reeling from all the complicated English > we are spewing. I look forward to the discussion. > > Still worrying about Figure 3! I know I need to be able to interpret > it but I am doing a lousy job. > > mike > > > On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 5:34 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > > wrote: > > > Thanks for finding and sharing the link, Andy, and thanks Michael > > and Mike for bringing the absolutely relevant connection to Parklands. > > > > There was not so long ago a discussion here as well as in a couple > > of articles in MCA about how crises leading to development most > > often result from quantitative increments that lead to qualitative > > leaps such that new forms of organization emerge from previous ones. > > So, David, I don't see why increments in the pace of circulation > > (e.g., of > > information) would not be expected to bring with them changes in the > > organisation of the whole economy system. I would not say that > > social media is just bringing a lot more of the same, just as I > > would not a priori reject the possibility that bringing a lot more > > of the same might not end up bringing new qualitative forms of > > communicating. The observation that "like" is intransitive in > > Facebook is interesting; but to me it needs to be put in its larger > > context of use. And so, are we analysing Facebook as a grammar > > closed up in itself, or as one more > chain in a larger grammar of possible cooperation? > > > > I am myself concerned that Social Media like Facebook may be > > amplifying dichotomical thinking beyond the innocuous and often > > way-to-verbose essays we academics enjoy entertaining with much more > > complex verbal forms than Facebook's intransitive "likes", only that > > the confrontations now seem to be moving to family's dinner tables, > > quarrels among protesters in public squares, or previously unheard > > of incarcerations for publishing tweets and rap songs that critique > > the crown in a supposedly modern democracy like Spain (e.g.: > > http://cadenaser.com/ser/2018/02/20/tribunales/1519135083_ > > 106543.html). But the article here discussed also shows that there > > are forms of organization that these technologies are affording that > > may bring more positive changes, like the case again in Spain of > > March 8th women's strike, the extent of which no politician or > > journalist had anticipated and which led the government to quickly > > adopt a much more equity-friendly discourse than even the evening > > before (https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=4_11iIELdfc). So, no, > > probably that one strike, or that one social media that may have > > made it possible, won't change the system. But they seem to > > incrementally add to > something, don't they? > > > > Alfredo Jornet > > ________________________________ > > New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and > > intransitive dimensions" > > Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > > > > ________________________________________ > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > on behalf of Andy Blunden > > > > Sent: 12 March 2018 06:39 > > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian > > schools > > > > That headline does not exist, but is it this: > > > > https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/07/us/parkland-students-social-media > > .h > > tml > > > > Andy > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Andy Blunden > > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > > On 12/03/2018 4:02 PM, mike cole wrote: > > > Michael - I have been trying to find a digital copy of a story in > > > today's NY Times titled "the social media warriors of parkland." > > > For some reason > > it > > > is not visible on the digital version.... yet. Maybe someone out > > >there in xmca-land can find it for us? I will check again in the > > >morning to see if it appears. > > > It seems especially relevant to Monica and Fernando's > > >article, and > > to > > > David's comment that " it is very hard for me to pinpoint any > > > actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made > > possible by > > > Facebook." The voices and forms of speaking used by the students > > > was > > not, > > > so far as I could tell, the source of data. There are no > > > quotations of > > any > > > students speaking differently. I assumed that this article was > > > about collective action. > > > Monica and Fernando - I confess I had difficulty following parts > > > of the article, perhaps because I am a very seldom user of > > > Facebook. In particular, I had difficulty understanding Figure 3. > > > Were the people who started M1 also those who started M2-M3? ( " > > > Once students achieved the object of the activity?in the first > > > case, to avoid the closure of the schools?they focused the > > > protests on another > object"). > > > > > > Did the M4 people get the idea from M1 through a FB connection form M1? > > Did > > > you get any sense of what distinguished pages that got a few > > > hundred > > versus > > > 10,000 reactions? > > > > > > Harshad - Did you think the article failed to consider social issues? > > There > > > is no information about you on the xmca membership page, so it is > > > difficult to know from what part of the world you are writing. > > > Unless I miss my guess, some people will wonder at your use of the > > > word "man" where the local practice might put "humankind" or some > > > other gender inclusive term. > > > > > > David - Daylight saving time tonight so I find myself "working > > > late." It got me to wondering how many people live in Seoul. A > > > lot, > it turns out. > > > About 9-10 million. That got me to wondering about how much faster > > > all those people would be getting around on horses with all the > > > horse plops > > to > > > clamber over. And all that hay to haul into town for the morning > > > rush hour. :-) > > > > > > mike > > > > > > On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Glassman, Michael > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > >> Hi David, > > >> > > >> I'm sure those meddling kids won't come back on your lawn any > > >> time > soon. > > >> > > >> But really, the article did not say Facebook is a new type of > > technology. > > >> I believe they said that it's a form of human-technology > > >> interaction and suggested perhaps social media was a new type of > > >> human-technology interaction. I don't agree with this phrasing. > > >> I tend to think of > > Facebook > > >> more as an application of Internet technology - but either way > > >> Facebook > > is > > >> just a form or an application. Is the internetworking of > > >> computer, radio and satellite communication an enormous step > > >> forward in how humans communicate. I think so - it's really > > >> extraordinary on a number of > > levels > > >> but that's really not the conversation for this article. > > >> > > >> I do think the authors have done an analysis that is interesting > > >> and possibly important, especially when one considers what is > > >> currently > > going > > >> on down in Parkland (some might be happy to know that, at least > > >> from > > what I > > >> have read, Facebook isn't dominant or even that important for > > >> these students. Adults have been using it more for larger > > >> organizational > > events > > >> like the March 14 walkout and the March 24 march). I have read > > >> some articles on organizing on online forums (and actually wrote > > >> a not very > > good > > >> one a few years back). Most of them are communications based an > > >> don't > > have > > >> strong theoretical underpinning which is why I think this article > > >> might > > be > > >> an important step forward. > > >> > > >> I think the idea of using third generation activity theory might > > >> be a > > good > > >> idea for this type of analysis. I myself have seen ties between > > >> the trialogical approach being developed by Hakkareinan and > > >> Paavola and > > what is > > >> going on down in Parkland. The students are creating their own > > >> projects > > and > > >> then getting the larger community to buy in to and support what > > >> they are doing which is in turn changing the quality of their > > >> activities. I have > > my > > >> own ideas on why this is suddenly happening and direct > > >> communication technologies like Twitter and texting (which seem > > >> primary vehicles) are only part of it. > > >> > > >> Anyway, this particular article I think is really timely and > > >> should give us a lot to think about. > > >> > > >> Michael > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > >> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg > > >> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2018 6:03 PM > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in > > >> Brazilian > > schools > > >> > > >> So in the fifteenth century, Gutenberg exapted extant technology > > >> already widely available in China and published a single text > > >> using moveable > > type > > >> which started a profound intellectual, cultural, and social > > >> revolution whose effects we still feel today: the rise of > > >> Protestantism, the Counter-Reformation in, among other places, > > >> Brazil, the Wars of > > Religion in > > >> France, the vicissitudes of a multii-confessional (political) > > >> State and ultimately those of a multi-confessional > > >> (psychological) state, In the twentieth century, Ford similarly > > >> exapted extant technology, this time nearly two millenia later > > >> than China, and mass-produced automobiles > > using > > >> Taylorism, forcing everybody to buy an identical product with > > >> interchangeable parts made by factories with interchangeable workers. > > >> The automobile "revolution" did not even give us new roads, and > > >> in Seoul today traffic moves notably slower than it would on > > >> horseback. Clearly, there are some forms of technology that are > > >> actually semiogenic--and > > others > > >> which merely circulate capital at a faster rate and actually slow > > >> the movement of people and new ideas. > > >> > > >> So my question is very simple. How do we know that "Facebook" > > >> (which as the name implies was originally designed to help > > >> Harvard freshmen decide which classmates were sufficiently hot to > > >> "like") is really one of the former technologies?.There are very > > >> clear signs , beyond the obvious > > ones > > >> surrounding the American origins, that it belongs to the latter > > category, > > >> and not a few of them appear in this very article. First of all, > > >> the authors are honest enough to associate Facebook with > > >> reactionary, xenophobic, populist movements like the clowns who > > >> run > the "Five Stars" > > >> movement in Italy. Second, on the very first page, the authors > > >> try but > > do > > >> not really seem to be able to distinguish between the "post first > > >> and organize later" technologies of Occupy Wall Street and the > > >> use of social media by the four movements in the article > > >> (including one actually > > called > > >> "Occupy Everything"). And thirdly, it is very hard for me to > > >> pinpoint > > any > > >> actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was > > >> made > > possible > > >> by Facebook. If anything, Facebook seems to narrow semiogenic > > >> power to a single consumer/computer menu. Ford said, you can get > > >> a Model A in any color you like so long as it's black. Facebook > > >> tells us the same thing, > > but > > >> makes the verb "like" intransitive. > > >> > > >> David Kellogg > > >> Sangmyung University > > >> > > >> Recent Article in *Early Years* > > >> > > >> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, > > >> and the child?s first interrogatives > > >> > >> doi/full/10.1080/09575146.2018.1431874> > > >> > > >> Free e-print available at: > > >> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full > > >> > > >> > > >> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 7:30 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >>> Dear xmca'ers, > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> it is (bit over) due time for introducing the article for > > >>> discussion from MCA's 2018 Issue 1, before Issue 2 comes upon us > soon. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> The selected article, by Monica Ferreira Lemos and Fernando > > >>> Rezende da Cunha J?nior, is about two topics that were > > >>> thematised in the last ISCAR congress and that ought to be of > > >>> much relevance to current and future CHAT-related research: > > >>> Social media and social movements. In particular, the article > > >>> examines how students use social media for the organization and > > >>> development of 4 social > movements in Brazil. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> The article is attached and is Free access during the discussion > > period. > > >>> It can be accessed free in the following link: > > >>> > > >>> https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2017.13798 > > >>> 23 > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> The authors have kindly agreed to participate in the discussion > > >>> and they will be introducing themselves soon. I hope you will > > >>> find the article interesting and please don't be shy to share > > >>> anything you might have learned reading it, anything you might > > >>> wonder about it or that you would like see discussed. Having > > >>> authors engage in dialogue is a great opportunity that this > > >>> community offers and that makes sense the most when many of you > participate. Good reading! > > >>> > > >>> ? > > >>> > > >>> Alfredo Jornet > > >>> > > >>> New article in *Design Studies* "Imagning Design: Transitive and > > >>> intransitive dimensions" > > >>> Free print available: > > >>> https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > > >>> > > >> > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: AntiGunViolencePosterSerenaBaldick.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 101230 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20180316/205640a7/attachment.jpg From mcole@ucsd.edu Fri Mar 16 11:36:16 2018 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2018 11:36:16 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools In-Reply-To: <001e01d3bd4e$f531b290$df9517b0$@att.net> References: <1520721034406.59651@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF245E@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <0bdd10ce-7411-8083-533f-44fcfb50e928@marxists.org> <1520858083490.87795@iped.uio.no> <2017557051.756650.1520967771201@mail.yahoo.com> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF29C7@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF2B93@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <1521156905718.23564@iped.uio.no> <001e01d3bd4e$f531b290$df9517b0$@att.net> Message-ID: Whoa, that is a great graphic, Peg! (like)!! :-) mike On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 10:48 AM, Peg Griffin wrote: > Here's a relevant link: http://badassteachers.blogspot.com/ > The Badass Teachers Association has existed for a few years now. This is a > blog with several posts by teachers who experienced the March 14 Walkouts > in > the US. > The blog entries reflect a few different situations and institutions that > the Badass Teachers and their students experience (note that the last blog > entry extends from the Walkouts to Teacher Strikes and more). > > While I learned a lot from the account of the four movements in Brazil and > plan to learn more, here's a bit of a wondering that I have: > When I work with/for our young activists in the US, as time goes by, I > almost always find there's something said about the young activists pasts. > They have participated in movements where peers further along in some ways, > and sometimes adults further along in some ways, collaborated. The young > activists did what they could when they could and took in a "whole" event > which in many ways they merely understood but marching and chanting and > drawing were really effective so they were engaged! These young activists > then externalized what they had taken in in all the ways they are doing now > ... And the teachers and the rest of us got further along, too! > The day before yesterday I was witnessing a Senate hearing. When the > hearing lies and evasions got terribly redundant, one of the Moms Demand > Action members seated next to me looked down to a live stream on her phone > of her daughter and classmates rallying outside the White House. Other > members remember the daughter tagging along to lobbying and hearings and > rallies and marches for years and the live stream and hugs went around a > couple of rows of us. Eventually those White House protesting students > marched from the White House to Capitol Hill and the mom soon left to meet > her daughter's group outside. Inside, we were astonished at how much we > were getting away with without the powers that be warning we would be > tossed > out. Maybe it's the times that are a changing or maybe it was just that > our > slogan t-shirts, finger snaps, humphs and yesses were mild in contrast to > the Code Pink folks a few rows away -- great costumes and liberty crowns > and > great signs. All sorts of forbidden expressive delights in a hearing run > by > Grassley. > > By the way, Randi Weingarten who is president of the AFT (one of the two > prominent and somewhat staid teachers unions in the US) shocked many in a > recent e-mail when she easily referred to the Badass Teachers Association > as > one of her co-leaders in the coalition of forty organizations working on > the > April 20 National Actions in the continuing move against gun violence. > (Adults are organizing the expansion of this anniversary of the Columbine > Massacre,) > > Badass, hardcore, throwing shade -- those are some of my newly nuanced > vocabulary items that young activists have led me to learn in the past year > and a half. > > And I'm attaching an amazing piece of art work -- the artist is also quite > the author of the written word. > > Peg > > -----Original Message----- > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Alfredo Jornet Gil > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2018 7:35 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools > > Just as a note to Harshad's and Michael's comments, and with the hope to, > although through a little detour, somehow re-connect with the article (at > least with the topic of social media, youth, and social mobilisation): > > Today, in Reykjavik, we were in a meeting discussing opportunities and > challenges that emerge when educators try to implement makerspaces > activities with young children (5-6 years old), now that those have become > fashionable and educators are trying to see what's good in there. In the > meeting, there were experienced kindergarten teachers, science center > organisers, artist researchers, "just plain postdocs" and the likes, all of > whom have experience and passion about children and learning. We all agreed > that most of the problems in attempting to implement makerspaces-like > activities with younger children had to do with the failure of the adults > to > appreciate and let the children own and make the space theirs, which we > find > is the whole point of a maker space. We pointed out our failure to see and > listen how the kids see and listen, so as to help them make. While many of > us, adults, in those situations tend to attend to the verb "to make" in the > transitive, as in "she makes some*thing*", thereby focusing on some end in > mind that provides with a model against which to exert correction, we > forget > that, in most cases, the kids are in fact *making* (in the intransitive, > without object), and that it is in the making that the possibility of the > end object emerges. Instead of supporting them, appreciating the heart of > what making means?in praxis?we tend to suffocate them, narrowing the space > so that it no longer is a makerspace, or at least not one even close to > their regular kindergarten spaces. > > Similarly, I am reluctant here to follow the lead that "mass youth is > mislead," at least not before I try to carefully and respectfully attend to > where they are at, what *their* world and space is, and what they say. For > yes, the words "safety" or "Girls clothing in school is more regulated than > GUNS in America" may not sound as erudite and profound as more complex > statements about the relations between Philosophy, Science, Ethics, and > Economy (all with capital letter). But the fact is that the magic, the > future, humanity in fact, is in their saying. So I would listen, but not > with the narrow backward view of us adults who already know, but from the > prospective forward view of those who grow. And this is not to say that > they > are right or that they are wrong; that would be, I think, missing the > point. > Even though, I must say, the messages too, like "your prayers do nothing," > are quite convincing to me. > > Alfredo Jornet > ________________________________ > New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and > intransitive dimensions" > Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > > ________________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on > behalf of Glassman, Michael > Sent: 15 March 2018 15:36 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools > > Hi Harshad, > > Sometimes it is the obvious not the obscure. If you want a hungry person > to > not be hungry anymore you give them food. A student of mind did a great > study on homelessness. Basically the best thing you can do to avoid > homelessness is you give people homes. And if you want people to stop > shooting each other with guns you take away their guns. > > Don't forget also that the nuclear family is something we pretty much made > up over the last few centuries. > > Michael > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Harshad Dave > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2018 8:54 AM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools > > 15 March 2018. > > Dear friends, > > I write here with reference to email message from Michael (Wed, Mar 14, > 2018 at 9:25 PM). As far as protest for gun control and debate on it is > concerned, I put some views here. > > We all are aware that this is not the first event of open fire on school > students as well as mass killing with gun fire on public place (recall Las > Vegas shooting and other). Right from beginning, when Columbus discovered > the New World, the road of establishing civilized society on continent > America was not a comfortable one. The people passed through challenges, > hardship and peril in day to day life during the travel on the road. This > journey moulded a responsible and wisdom full culture in the blood of > people > living there. They fought for independence and emerged with a unity named > USA, they sustained with and sacrificed in civil war, they passed through > the severe recession of 1930 after World War I, and they fought thousands > of > kilometres away from native place along with allied nations in World War > II. > These all are the untold, unwritten qualification of the people of the time > that decorated with a right of freedom to keep weapons with them. We never > heard of such insane events of mass killing in this society in the history > of this people though freedom to keep gun/weapon was and has been a right. > > [NB: Please note, I am neither in favour nor in opposition to the protest. > I try to just bring one point of consideration to the reader.] > > After August 1945, USA emerged with some exceptional lead over other > nations > of the world. If we consider a period of 25 years as generation change, the > third and fourth generation constitutes present youth. Those who were born > in and after August 1945 could study the history of the above path that was > traveled by their ancestors. There is much difference between reading a > history and making living in the same history. > > Moreover, I recall the words of President Roosevelt, ?*The only limit to > our > realization of tomorrow will be our doubts of today.*? It brought a new > style and different culture with comfortable life and inexperienced > thinking > and thoughts in new generations. The emerging social constitution of > society > in USA and its systems as well as institutions grew with a rapid progress > and incessant changes. Majority people believe that ?*dollars?* is the > ultimate key towards happiness and peace. Institutions and system of > society > worked as if ?*science and technology?* has the entire competency to settle > any social problem. > > Wise people.... perhaps... failed to understand that our society is stable > and balance on four pillars.... they (pillars) are Philosophy, Ethics and > Religion, Science and Technology and Economics. Uneven growth in one or > more > pillars will destabilize the society. Now a day, we are searching all the > answers of social issues from *science and technology*. We try to sort out > every problem through *dollars* only, and we do not know if it is sorted > out > or postponed. Neither we honestly give adequate stress on ethical value nor > do we have uniform philosophy on which our society might rest. Family > system > is all most paralyzed. Youth are encouraged or instigated to be independent > and self sufficient as soon as they reach at a prescribed age. We treat > them > as freedom to youth. Our youth mass is not aware of all this fact and every > street and corners are equipped with a net-work to misleading the youth. > > Now, this mass of the youth protests with an esteemed trust that the > subject > gun law will bring a safety. They never know, ?*Safety never come from the > enacted laws, it does come from the healthy and balanced social system.*? > Presently, it seems to me that protesters are with a trust to bring safety > by introducing the subject gun law, but the events of shootings shout for > the grass root changes in social system with balance uniform growth in the > above said four pillars. It demands for reintroducing an affectionate > family > system again and fundamental education that dollars cannot always bring > happiness and peace but where the real happiness and peace lie. > > Harshad Dave > > Email: hhdave15@gmail.com > On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 9:25 PM, Glassman, Michael > wrote: > > > Fernando and Monica, > > > > This is what is happening is the United States today, > > > > https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/03/students- > > from-thousands-of-schools-stage-a-walkout-to-protest- > > gun-violence-and-honor-parkland-victims.html > > > > It is nothing less than extraordinary. Many are trying to limit this > > to gun violence but I wonder, based on your article, if it will soon > > transform into another movement. But I think it goes to show how the > > work you have done, if only a beginning, is really important. I feel > > like we have missed this in U.S. academic circles. There is what is > > basically an idiotic article on fake news in the most recent Science, > > supposed to be our flagship. > > > > I feel like we have to hit the re-set button on understanding what is > > going on and the role that what you call human-technology interaction > > is playing. > > > > I have a question for some activity theorists if they are interested > > in responding. In some ways what is going on does mirror an activity > > model, the multi-level reciprocal transformation (unless I am > > misunderstanding something). But as I said in an earlier message there > > is nobody coming in doing an intervention, the transformation itself > > is organic, more Dewey oriented I would say (I think maybe Friere > > also). Is there room for this in activity theory? > > > > Michael > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Fernando Cunha > > Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 3:03 PM > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity ; mike > > cole > > Cc: Lemos, Monica > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian > > schools > > > > Dear all, > > I really appreciate the discussion so far, and I liked the way some of > > you used some metaphors. It was far from our intention to reinvent the > > wheel or to use flint stones to light fire. What I think it is > > important is that there is no "if" in human history, and we are where > > we are because we transform the places we live, as well as the tools > > we use. We can for sure ride horses in the cities, but the horses > > would sweat so much (considering the asphalt roads), that in a matter of > hours they would die. > > > > Since life is forward, we tried to show in our article a small part of > > what the movements organized by the students were.It is important to > > highlight, that despite people that were not in favor of protests > > (including some students!), it was the first time in Brazilian history > > that students (who were not supposed to interfere) interfered in a > > political decision. And they did so not only by using Facebook. As we > > mention in our paper, Facebook is one aspect of the protests, and we > > considered it as a mediational communicative tool. As I mentioned > > before in this answer, we as human beings use tools that are > > available, reshape them, and sometimes use them for a purpose that is > completely different from the original idea. > > I myself am a secondary education teacher, and I am also a researcher > > because I am a secondary education teacher. We may have different > > points of view when you research something as an outsider, and when > > you participate (not as an ethnographer), but as a subject of the > > group. In my humble opinion, we are still trying to conceptualize (and > > stabilize) things that move faster than we can handle as scientists, > > or to compare contexts that cannot be compared. > > > > I am looking forward to your reactions. > > Best regards, > > > > > > __________________________Fernando R. Cunha J?nior, PhD. > > > > http://fernandorcjr.wordpress.com > > > > > > Em segunda-feira, 12 de mar?o de 2018 21:05:34 BRT, mike cole < > > mcole@ucsd.edu> escreveu: > > > > Alfredo et al > > > > I read this message before reading the prior one. You are making the > > point I was trying to make regarding discussion of the paper. > > In our everyday lives we are experiencing a change in the wind (to use > > a metaphor that Dylan made famous at another such time). > > HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS ARE DISRUPTING THINGS AS USUAL for the first time > > in my life. Call it 65 years. > > > > And we are academics and some of us are are paid to theorize such > matters. > > To theorize the social organization of society was Hugh's description > > of the social sciences. In most American Universities, Psychology (cap > > P) is located in the social sciences. > > Do we approach the problem from "below" as psychologists? Do we > > approach it from "above" as sociologists and political scientists? > > Can you link the Leontiev who writes about the nature of human > > consciousness, psychologically speaking and conducts experiments in > > the laboratory that look for all the world like what goes on in my > > psychology department, AND as someone who can help understand the > > growth of social movements? This may also be a way to address and > > understanding of the overlap and variability in the ideas of Vygotsky and > Friere. > > > > Monica and Fernando must be reeling from all the complicated English > > we are spewing. I look forward to the discussion. > > > > Still worrying about Figure 3! I know I need to be able to interpret > > it but I am doing a lousy job. > > > > mike > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 5:34 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > > > > wrote: > > > > > Thanks for finding and sharing the link, Andy, and thanks Michael > > > and Mike for bringing the absolutely relevant connection to Parklands. > > > > > > There was not so long ago a discussion here as well as in a couple > > > of articles in MCA about how crises leading to development most > > > often result from quantitative increments that lead to qualitative > > > leaps such that new forms of organization emerge from previous ones. > > > So, David, I don't see why increments in the pace of circulation > > > (e.g., of > > > information) would not be expected to bring with them changes in the > > > organisation of the whole economy system. I would not say that > > > social media is just bringing a lot more of the same, just as I > > > would not a priori reject the possibility that bringing a lot more > > > of the same might not end up bringing new qualitative forms of > > > communicating. The observation that "like" is intransitive in > > > Facebook is interesting; but to me it needs to be put in its larger > > > context of use. And so, are we analysing Facebook as a grammar > > > closed up in itself, or as one more > > chain in a larger grammar of possible cooperation? > > > > > > I am myself concerned that Social Media like Facebook may be > > > amplifying dichotomical thinking beyond the innocuous and often > > > way-to-verbose essays we academics enjoy entertaining with much more > > > complex verbal forms than Facebook's intransitive "likes", only that > > > the confrontations now seem to be moving to family's dinner tables, > > > quarrels among protesters in public squares, or previously unheard > > > of incarcerations for publishing tweets and rap songs that critique > > > the crown in a supposedly modern democracy like Spain (e.g.: > > > http://cadenaser.com/ser/2018/02/20/tribunales/1519135083_ > > > 106543.html). But the article here discussed also shows that there > > > are forms of organization that these technologies are affording that > > > may bring more positive changes, like the case again in Spain of > > > March 8th women's strike, the extent of which no politician or > > > journalist had anticipated and which led the government to quickly > > > adopt a much more equity-friendly discourse than even the evening > > > before (https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=4_11iIELdfc). So, no, > > > probably that one strike, or that one social media that may have > > > made it possible, won't change the system. But they seem to > > > incrementally add to > > something, don't they? > > > > > > Alfredo Jornet > > > ________________________________ > > > New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and > > > intransitive dimensions" > > > Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > > > > > > ________________________________________ > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > on behalf of Andy Blunden > > > > > > Sent: 12 March 2018 06:39 > > > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian > > > schools > > > > > > That headline does not exist, but is it this: > > > > > > https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/07/us/parkland-students-social-media > > > .h > > > tml > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Andy Blunden > > > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > > > On 12/03/2018 4:02 PM, mike cole wrote: > > > > Michael - I have been trying to find a digital copy of a story in > > > > today's NY Times titled "the social media warriors of parkland." > > > > For some reason > > > it > > > > is not visible on the digital version.... yet. Maybe someone out > > > >there in xmca-land can find it for us? I will check again in the > > > >morning to see if it appears. > > > > It seems especially relevant to Monica and Fernando's > > > >article, and > > > to > > > > David's comment that " it is very hard for me to pinpoint any > > > > actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was made > > > possible by > > > > Facebook." The voices and forms of speaking used by the students > > > > was > > > not, > > > > so far as I could tell, the source of data. There are no > > > > quotations of > > > any > > > > students speaking differently. I assumed that this article was > > > > about collective action. > > > > Monica and Fernando - I confess I had difficulty following parts > > > > of the article, perhaps because I am a very seldom user of > > > > Facebook. In particular, I had difficulty understanding Figure 3. > > > > Were the people who started M1 also those who started M2-M3? ( " > > > > Once students achieved the object of the activity?in the first > > > > case, to avoid the closure of the schools?they focused the > > > > protests on another > > object"). > > > > > > > > Did the M4 people get the idea from M1 through a FB connection form > M1? > > > Did > > > > you get any sense of what distinguished pages that got a few > > > > hundred > > > versus > > > > 10,000 reactions? > > > > > > > > Harshad - Did you think the article failed to consider social issues? > > > There > > > > is no information about you on the xmca membership page, so it is > > > > difficult to know from what part of the world you are writing. > > > > Unless I miss my guess, some people will wonder at your use of the > > > > word "man" where the local practice might put "humankind" or some > > > > other gender inclusive term. > > > > > > > > David - Daylight saving time tonight so I find myself "working > > > > late." It got me to wondering how many people live in Seoul. A > > > > lot, > > it turns out. > > > > About 9-10 million. That got me to wondering about how much faster > > > > all those people would be getting around on horses with all the > > > > horse plops > > > to > > > > clamber over. And all that hay to haul into town for the morning > > > > rush hour. :-) > > > > > > > > mike > > > > > > > > On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Glassman, Michael > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> Hi David, > > > >> > > > >> I'm sure those meddling kids won't come back on your lawn any > > > >> time > > soon. > > > >> > > > >> But really, the article did not say Facebook is a new type of > > > technology. > > > >> I believe they said that it's a form of human-technology > > > >> interaction and suggested perhaps social media was a new type of > > > >> human-technology interaction. I don't agree with this phrasing. > > > >> I tend to think of > > > Facebook > > > >> more as an application of Internet technology - but either way > > > >> Facebook > > > is > > > >> just a form or an application. Is the internetworking of > > > >> computer, radio and satellite communication an enormous step > > > >> forward in how humans communicate. I think so - it's really > > > >> extraordinary on a number of > > > levels > > > >> but that's really not the conversation for this article. > > > >> > > > >> I do think the authors have done an analysis that is interesting > > > >> and possibly important, especially when one considers what is > > > >> currently > > > going > > > >> on down in Parkland (some might be happy to know that, at least > > > >> from > > > what I > > > >> have read, Facebook isn't dominant or even that important for > > > >> these students. Adults have been using it more for larger > > > >> organizational > > > events > > > >> like the March 14 walkout and the March 24 march). I have read > > > >> some articles on organizing on online forums (and actually wrote > > > >> a not very > > > good > > > >> one a few years back). Most of them are communications based an > > > >> don't > > > have > > > >> strong theoretical underpinning which is why I think this article > > > >> might > > > be > > > >> an important step forward. > > > >> > > > >> I think the idea of using third generation activity theory might > > > >> be a > > > good > > > >> idea for this type of analysis. I myself have seen ties between > > > >> the trialogical approach being developed by Hakkareinan and > > > >> Paavola and > > > what is > > > >> going on down in Parkland. The students are creating their own > > > >> projects > > > and > > > >> then getting the larger community to buy in to and support what > > > >> they are doing which is in turn changing the quality of their > > > >> activities. I have > > > my > > > >> own ideas on why this is suddenly happening and direct > > > >> communication technologies like Twitter and texting (which seem > > > >> primary vehicles) are only part of it. > > > >> > > > >> Anyway, this particular article I think is really timely and > > > >> should give us a lot to think about. > > > >> > > > >> Michael > > > >> > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > > >> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg > > > >> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2018 6:03 PM > > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in > > > >> Brazilian > > > schools > > > >> > > > >> So in the fifteenth century, Gutenberg exapted extant technology > > > >> already widely available in China and published a single text > > > >> using moveable > > > type > > > >> which started a profound intellectual, cultural, and social > > > >> revolution whose effects we still feel today: the rise of > > > >> Protestantism, the Counter-Reformation in, among other places, > > > >> Brazil, the Wars of > > > Religion in > > > >> France, the vicissitudes of a multii-confessional (political) > > > >> State and ultimately those of a multi-confessional > > > >> (psychological) state, In the twentieth century, Ford similarly > > > >> exapted extant technology, this time nearly two millenia later > > > >> than China, and mass-produced automobiles > > > using > > > >> Taylorism, forcing everybody to buy an identical product with > > > >> interchangeable parts made by factories with interchangeable > workers. > > > >> The automobile "revolution" did not even give us new roads, and > > > >> in Seoul today traffic moves notably slower than it would on > > > >> horseback. Clearly, there are some forms of technology that are > > > >> actually semiogenic--and > > > others > > > >> which merely circulate capital at a faster rate and actually slow > > > >> the movement of people and new ideas. > > > >> > > > >> So my question is very simple. How do we know that "Facebook" > > > >> (which as the name implies was originally designed to help > > > >> Harvard freshmen decide which classmates were sufficiently hot to > > > >> "like") is really one of the former technologies?.There are very > > > >> clear signs , beyond the obvious > > > ones > > > >> surrounding the American origins, that it belongs to the latter > > > category, > > > >> and not a few of them appear in this very article. First of all, > > > >> the authors are honest enough to associate Facebook with > > > >> reactionary, xenophobic, populist movements like the clowns who > > > >> run > > the "Five Stars" > > > >> movement in Italy. Second, on the very first page, the authors > > > >> try but > > > do > > > >> not really seem to be able to distinguish between the "post first > > > >> and organize later" technologies of Occupy Wall Street and the > > > >> use of social media by the four movements in the article > > > >> (including one actually > > > called > > > >> "Occupy Everything"). And thirdly, it is very hard for me to > > > >> pinpoint > > > any > > > >> actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was > > > >> made > > > possible > > > >> by Facebook. If anything, Facebook seems to narrow semiogenic > > > >> power to a single consumer/computer menu. Ford said, you can get > > > >> a Model A in any color you like so long as it's black. Facebook > > > >> tells us the same thing, > > > but > > > >> makes the verb "like" intransitive. > > > >> > > > >> David Kellogg > > > >> Sangmyung University > > > >> > > > >> Recent Article in *Early Years* > > > >> > > > >> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, > > > >> and the child?s first interrogatives > > > >> > > >> doi/full/10.1080/09575146.2018.1431874> > > > >> > > > >> Free e-print available at: > > > >> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 7:30 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > > > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > > > >> wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> Dear xmca'ers, > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> it is (bit over) due time for introducing the article for > > > >>> discussion from MCA's 2018 Issue 1, before Issue 2 comes upon us > > soon. > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> The selected article, by Monica Ferreira Lemos and Fernando > > > >>> Rezende da Cunha J?nior, is about two topics that were > > > >>> thematised in the last ISCAR congress and that ought to be of > > > >>> much relevance to current and future CHAT-related research: > > > >>> Social media and social movements. In particular, the article > > > >>> examines how students use social media for the organization and > > > >>> development of 4 social > > movements in Brazil. > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> The article is attached and is Free access during the discussion > > > period. > > > >>> It can be accessed free in the following link: > > > >>> > > > >>> https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2017.13798 > > > >>> 23 > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> The authors have kindly agreed to participate in the discussion > > > >>> and they will be introducing themselves soon. I hope you will > > > >>> find the article interesting and please don't be shy to share > > > >>> anything you might have learned reading it, anything you might > > > >>> wonder about it or that you would like see discussed. Having > > > >>> authors engage in dialogue is a great opportunity that this > > > >>> community offers and that makes sense the most when many of you > > participate. Good reading! > > > >>> > > > >>> ? > > > >>> > > > >>> Alfredo Jornet > > > >>> > > > >>> New article in *Design Studies* "Imagning Design: Transitive and > > > >>> intransitive dimensions" > > > >>> Free print available: > > > >>> https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > > > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > From Peg.Griffin@att.net Fri Mar 16 12:36:30 2018 From: Peg.Griffin@att.net (Peg Griffin) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2018 15:36:30 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools In-Reply-To: References: <1520721034406.59651@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF245E@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <0bdd10ce-7411-8083-533f-44fcfb50e928@marxists.org> <1520858083490.87795@iped.uio.no> <2017557051.756650.1520967771201@mail.yahoo.com> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF29C7@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF2B93@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <1521156905718.23564@iped.uio.no> <001e01d3bd4e$f531b290$df9517b0$@att.net> Message-ID: <003601d3bd5e$1e105a40$5a310ec0$@att.net> I think Serena (whose graphic it is) now goes to a Society of Friends high school. She has access to an enormously useful past for an activist to grow in! -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole Sent: Friday, March 16, 2018 2:36 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools Whoa, that is a great graphic, Peg! (like)!! :-) mike On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 10:48 AM, Peg Griffin wrote: > Here's a relevant link: http://badassteachers.blogspot.com/ > The Badass Teachers Association has existed for a few years now. This > is a blog with several posts by teachers who experienced the March 14 > Walkouts in the US. > The blog entries reflect a few different situations and institutions > that the Badass Teachers and their students experience (note that the > last blog entry extends from the Walkouts to Teacher Strikes and more). > > While I learned a lot from the account of the four movements in Brazil > and plan to learn more, here's a bit of a wondering that I have: > When I work with/for our young activists in the US, as time goes by, I > almost always find there's something said about the young activists pasts. > They have participated in movements where peers further along in some > ways, and sometimes adults further along in some ways, collaborated. > The young activists did what they could when they could and took in a > "whole" event which in many ways they merely understood but marching > and chanting and drawing were really effective so they were engaged! > These young activists then externalized what they had taken in in all > the ways they are doing now ... And the teachers and the rest of us got further along, too! > The day before yesterday I was witnessing a Senate hearing. When the > hearing lies and evasions got terribly redundant, one of the Moms > Demand Action members seated next to me looked down to a live stream > on her phone of her daughter and classmates rallying outside the White > House. Other members remember the daughter tagging along to lobbying > and hearings and rallies and marches for years and the live stream and > hugs went around a couple of rows of us. Eventually those White House > protesting students marched from the White House to Capitol Hill and > the mom soon left to meet her daughter's group outside. Inside, we > were astonished at how much we were getting away with without the > powers that be warning we would be tossed out. Maybe it's the times > that are a changing or maybe it was just that our slogan t-shirts, > finger snaps, humphs and yesses were mild in contrast to the Code Pink > folks a few rows away -- great costumes and liberty crowns and great > signs. All sorts of forbidden expressive delights in a hearing run by > Grassley. > > By the way, Randi Weingarten who is president of the AFT (one of the > two prominent and somewhat staid teachers unions in the US) shocked > many in a recent e-mail when she easily referred to the Badass > Teachers Association as one of her co-leaders in the coalition of > forty organizations working on the April 20 National Actions in the > continuing move against gun violence. > (Adults are organizing the expansion of this anniversary of the > Columbine > Massacre,) > > Badass, hardcore, throwing shade -- those are some of my newly nuanced > vocabulary items that young activists have led me to learn in the past > year and a half. > > And I'm attaching an amazing piece of art work -- the artist is also > quite the author of the written word. > > Peg > > -----Original Message----- > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Alfredo Jornet > Gil > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2018 7:35 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian > schools > > Just as a note to Harshad's and Michael's comments, and with the hope > to, although through a little detour, somehow re-connect with the > article (at least with the topic of social media, youth, and social mobilisation): > > Today, in Reykjavik, we were in a meeting discussing opportunities and > challenges that emerge when educators try to implement makerspaces > activities with young children (5-6 years old), now that those have > become fashionable and educators are trying to see what's good in > there. In the meeting, there were experienced kindergarten teachers, > science center organisers, artist researchers, "just plain postdocs" > and the likes, all of whom have experience and passion about children > and learning. We all agreed that most of the problems in attempting to > implement makerspaces-like activities with younger children had to do > with the failure of the adults to appreciate and let the children own > and make the space theirs, which we find is the whole point of a maker > space. We pointed out our failure to see and listen how the kids see > and listen, so as to help them make. While many of us, adults, in > those situations tend to attend to the verb "to make" in the > transitive, as in "she makes some*thing*", thereby focusing on some > end in mind that provides with a model against which to exert > correction, we forget that, in most cases, the kids are in fact > *making* (in the intransitive, without object), and that it is in the > making that the possibility of the end object emerges. Instead of > supporting them, appreciating the heart of what making means?in > praxis?we tend to suffocate them, narrowing the space so that it no > longer is a makerspace, or at least not one even close to their > regular kindergarten spaces. > > Similarly, I am reluctant here to follow the lead that "mass youth is > mislead," at least not before I try to carefully and respectfully > attend to where they are at, what *their* world and space is, and what > they say. For yes, the words "safety" or "Girls clothing in school is > more regulated than GUNS in America" may not sound as erudite and > profound as more complex statements about the relations between > Philosophy, Science, Ethics, and Economy (all with capital letter). > But the fact is that the magic, the future, humanity in fact, is in > their saying. So I would listen, but not with the narrow backward view > of us adults who already know, but from the prospective forward view > of those who grow. And this is not to say that they are right or that > they are wrong; that would be, I think, missing the point. > Even though, I must say, the messages too, like "your prayers do nothing," > are quite convincing to me. > > Alfredo Jornet > ________________________________ > New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and > intransitive dimensions" > Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > > ________________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Glassman, Michael > > Sent: 15 March 2018 15:36 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian > schools > > Hi Harshad, > > Sometimes it is the obvious not the obscure. If you want a hungry > person to not be hungry anymore you give them food. A student of mind > did a great study on homelessness. Basically the best thing you can > do to avoid homelessness is you give people homes. And if you want > people to stop shooting each other with guns you take away their guns. > > Don't forget also that the nuclear family is something we pretty much > made up over the last few centuries. > > Michael > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Harshad Dave > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2018 8:54 AM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian > schools > > 15 March 2018. > > Dear friends, > > I write here with reference to email message from Michael (Wed, Mar > 14, > 2018 at 9:25 PM). As far as protest for gun control and debate on it > is concerned, I put some views here. > > We all are aware that this is not the first event of open fire on > school students as well as mass killing with gun fire on public place > (recall Las Vegas shooting and other). Right from beginning, when > Columbus discovered the New World, the road of establishing civilized > society on continent America was not a comfortable one. The people > passed through challenges, hardship and peril in day to day life > during the travel on the road. This journey moulded a responsible and > wisdom full culture in the blood of people living there. They fought > for independence and emerged with a unity named USA, they sustained > with and sacrificed in civil war, they passed through the severe > recession of 1930 after World War I, and they fought thousands of > kilometres away from native place along with allied nations in World > War II. > These all are the untold, unwritten qualification of the people of the > time that decorated with a right of freedom to keep weapons with them. > We never heard of such insane events of mass killing in this society > in the history of this people though freedom to keep gun/weapon was and has been a right. > > [NB: Please note, I am neither in favour nor in opposition to the protest. > I try to just bring one point of consideration to the reader.] > > After August 1945, USA emerged with some exceptional lead over other > nations of the world. If we consider a period of 25 years as > generation change, the third and fourth generation constitutes present > youth. Those who were born in and after August 1945 could study the > history of the above path that was traveled by their ancestors. There > is much difference between reading a history and making living in the > same history. > > Moreover, I recall the words of President Roosevelt, ?*The only limit > to our realization of tomorrow will be our doubts of today.*? It > brought a new style and different culture with comfortable life and > inexperienced thinking and thoughts in new generations. The emerging > social constitution of society in USA and its systems as well as > institutions grew with a rapid progress and incessant changes. > Majority people believe that ?*dollars?* is the ultimate key towards > happiness and peace. Institutions and system of society worked as if > ?*science and technology?* has the entire competency to settle any > social problem. > > Wise people.... perhaps... failed to understand that our society is > stable and balance on four pillars.... they (pillars) are Philosophy, > Ethics and Religion, Science and Technology and Economics. Uneven > growth in one or more pillars will destabilize the society. Now a day, > we are searching all the answers of social issues from *science and > technology*. We try to sort out every problem through *dollars* only, > and we do not know if it is sorted out or postponed. Neither we > honestly give adequate stress on ethical value nor do we have uniform > philosophy on which our society might rest. Family system is all most > paralyzed. Youth are encouraged or instigated to be independent and > self sufficient as soon as they reach at a prescribed age. We treat > them as freedom to youth. Our youth mass is not aware of all this fact > and every street and corners are equipped with a net-work to > misleading the youth. > > Now, this mass of the youth protests with an esteemed trust that the > subject gun law will bring a safety. They never know, ?*Safety never > come from the enacted laws, it does come from the healthy and balanced > social system.*? > Presently, it seems to me that protesters are with a trust to bring > safety by introducing the subject gun law, but the events of shootings > shout for the grass root changes in social system with balance uniform > growth in the above said four pillars. It demands for reintroducing an > affectionate family system again and fundamental education that > dollars cannot always bring happiness and peace but where the real > happiness and peace lie. > > Harshad Dave > > Email: hhdave15@gmail.com > On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 9:25 PM, Glassman, Michael > > wrote: > > > Fernando and Monica, > > > > This is what is happening is the United States today, > > > > https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/03/students- > > from-thousands-of-schools-stage-a-walkout-to-protest- > > gun-violence-and-honor-parkland-victims.html > > > > It is nothing less than extraordinary. Many are trying to limit this > > to gun violence but I wonder, based on your article, if it will soon > > transform into another movement. But I think it goes to show how the > > work you have done, if only a beginning, is really important. I feel > > like we have missed this in U.S. academic circles. There is what is > > basically an idiotic article on fake news in the most recent > > Science, supposed to be our flagship. > > > > I feel like we have to hit the re-set button on understanding what > > is going on and the role that what you call human-technology > > interaction is playing. > > > > I have a question for some activity theorists if they are interested > > in responding. In some ways what is going on does mirror an activity > > model, the multi-level reciprocal transformation (unless I am > > misunderstanding something). But as I said in an earlier message > > there is nobody coming in doing an intervention, the transformation > > itself is organic, more Dewey oriented I would say (I think maybe > > Friere also). Is there room for this in activity theory? > > > > Michael > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Fernando Cunha > > Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 3:03 PM > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity ; mike > > cole > > Cc: Lemos, Monica > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian > > schools > > > > Dear all, > > I really appreciate the discussion so far, and I liked the way some > > of you used some metaphors. It was far from our intention to > > reinvent the wheel or to use flint stones to light fire. What I > > think it is important is that there is no "if" in human history, and > > we are where we are because we transform the places we live, as well > > as the tools we use. We can for sure ride horses in the cities, but > > the horses would sweat so much (considering the asphalt roads), that > > in a matter of > hours they would die. > > > > Since life is forward, we tried to show in our article a small part > > of what the movements organized by the students were.It is important > > to highlight, that despite people that were not in favor of protests > > (including some students!), it was the first time in Brazilian > > history that students (who were not supposed to interfere) > > interfered in a political decision. And they did so not only by > > using Facebook. As we mention in our paper, Facebook is one aspect > > of the protests, and we considered it as a mediational communicative > > tool. As I mentioned before in this answer, we as human beings use > > tools that are available, reshape them, and sometimes use them for a > > purpose that is > completely different from the original idea. > > I myself am a secondary education teacher, and I am also a > > researcher because I am a secondary education teacher. We may have > > different points of view when you research something as an outsider, > > and when you participate (not as an ethnographer), but as a subject > > of the group. In my humble opinion, we are still trying to > > conceptualize (and > > stabilize) things that move faster than we can handle as scientists, > > or to compare contexts that cannot be compared. > > > > I am looking forward to your reactions. > > Best regards, > > > > > > __________________________Fernando R. Cunha J?nior, PhD. > > > > http://fernandorcjr.wordpress.com > > > > > > Em segunda-feira, 12 de mar?o de 2018 21:05:34 BRT, mike cole < > > mcole@ucsd.edu> escreveu: > > > > Alfredo et al > > > > I read this message before reading the prior one. You are making the > > point I was trying to make regarding discussion of the paper. > > In our everyday lives we are experiencing a change in the wind (to > > use a metaphor that Dylan made famous at another such time). > > HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS ARE DISRUPTING THINGS AS USUAL for the first > > time in my life. Call it 65 years. > > > > And we are academics and some of us are are paid to theorize such > matters. > > To theorize the social organization of society was Hugh's > > description of the social sciences. In most American Universities, > > Psychology (cap > > P) is located in the social sciences. > > Do we approach the problem from "below" as psychologists? Do we > > approach it from "above" as sociologists and political scientists? > > Can you link the Leontiev who writes about the nature of human > > consciousness, psychologically speaking and conducts experiments in > > the laboratory that look for all the world like what goes on in my > > psychology department, AND as someone who can help understand the > > growth of social movements? This may also be a way to address and > > understanding of the overlap and variability in the ideas of > > Vygotsky and > Friere. > > > > Monica and Fernando must be reeling from all the complicated English > > we are spewing. I look forward to the discussion. > > > > Still worrying about Figure 3! I know I need to be able to interpret > > it but I am doing a lousy job. > > > > mike > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 5:34 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > > > > wrote: > > > > > Thanks for finding and sharing the link, Andy, and thanks Michael > > > and Mike for bringing the absolutely relevant connection to Parklands. > > > > > > There was not so long ago a discussion here as well as in a couple > > > of articles in MCA about how crises leading to development most > > > often result from quantitative increments that lead to qualitative > > > leaps such that new forms of organization emerge from previous ones. > > > So, David, I don't see why increments in the pace of circulation > > > (e.g., of > > > information) would not be expected to bring with them changes in > > > the organisation of the whole economy system. I would not say that > > > social media is just bringing a lot more of the same, just as I > > > would not a priori reject the possibility that bringing a lot more > > > of the same might not end up bringing new qualitative forms of > > > communicating. The observation that "like" is intransitive in > > > Facebook is interesting; but to me it needs to be put in its > > > larger context of use. And so, are we analysing Facebook as a > > > grammar closed up in itself, or as one more > > chain in a larger grammar of possible cooperation? > > > > > > I am myself concerned that Social Media like Facebook may be > > > amplifying dichotomical thinking beyond the innocuous and often > > > way-to-verbose essays we academics enjoy entertaining with much > > > more complex verbal forms than Facebook's intransitive "likes", > > > only that the confrontations now seem to be moving to family's > > > dinner tables, quarrels among protesters in public squares, or > > > previously unheard of incarcerations for publishing tweets and rap > > > songs that critique the crown in a supposedly modern democracy like Spain (e.g.: > > > http://cadenaser.com/ser/2018/02/20/tribunales/1519135083_ > > > 106543.html). But the article here discussed also shows that there > > > are forms of organization that these technologies are affording > > > that may bring more positive changes, like the case again in Spain > > > of March 8th women's strike, the extent of which no politician or > > > journalist had anticipated and which led the government to quickly > > > adopt a much more equity-friendly discourse than even the evening > > > before (https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=4_11iIELdfc). So, no, > > > probably that one strike, or that one social media that may have > > > made it possible, won't change the system. But they seem to > > > incrementally add to > > something, don't they? > > > > > > Alfredo Jornet > > > ________________________________ > > > New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and > > > intransitive dimensions" > > > Free print available: > > > https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > > > > > > ________________________________________ > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > on behalf of Andy Blunden > > > > > > Sent: 12 March 2018 06:39 > > > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in > > > Brazilian schools > > > > > > That headline does not exist, but is it this: > > > > > > https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/07/us/parkland-students-social-med > > > ia > > > .h > > > tml > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Andy Blunden > > > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > > > On 12/03/2018 4:02 PM, mike cole wrote: > > > > Michael - I have been trying to find a digital copy of a story > > > > in today's NY Times titled "the social media warriors of parkland." > > > > For some reason > > > it > > > > is not visible on the digital version.... yet. Maybe someone out > > > >there in xmca-land can find it for us? I will check again in > > > >the morning to see if it appears. > > > > It seems especially relevant to Monica and Fernando's > > > >article, and > > > to > > > > David's comment that " it is very hard for me to pinpoint any > > > > actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was > > > > made > > > possible by > > > > Facebook." The voices and forms of speaking used by the > > > > students was > > > not, > > > > so far as I could tell, the source of data. There are no > > > > quotations of > > > any > > > > students speaking differently. I assumed that this article was > > > > about collective action. > > > > Monica and Fernando - I confess I had difficulty following parts > > > > of the article, perhaps because I am a very seldom user of > > > > Facebook. In particular, I had difficulty understanding Figure 3. > > > > Were the people who started M1 also those who started M2-M3? ( " > > > > Once students achieved the object of the activity?in the first > > > > case, to avoid the closure of the schools?they focused the > > > > protests on another > > object"). > > > > > > > > Did the M4 people get the idea from M1 through a FB connection > > > > form > M1? > > > Did > > > > you get any sense of what distinguished pages that got a few > > > > hundred > > > versus > > > > 10,000 reactions? > > > > > > > > Harshad - Did you think the article failed to consider social issues? > > > There > > > > is no information about you on the xmca membership page, so it > > > > is difficult to know from what part of the world you are writing. > > > > Unless I miss my guess, some people will wonder at your use of > > > > the word "man" where the local practice might put "humankind" or > > > > some other gender inclusive term. > > > > > > > > David - Daylight saving time tonight so I find myself "working > > > > late." It got me to wondering how many people live in Seoul. A > > > > lot, > > it turns out. > > > > About 9-10 million. That got me to wondering about how much > > > > faster all those people would be getting around on horses with > > > > all the horse plops > > > to > > > > clamber over. And all that hay to haul into town for the morning > > > > rush hour. :-) > > > > > > > > mike > > > > > > > > On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Glassman, Michael > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> Hi David, > > > >> > > > >> I'm sure those meddling kids won't come back on your lawn any > > > >> time > > soon. > > > >> > > > >> But really, the article did not say Facebook is a new type of > > > technology. > > > >> I believe they said that it's a form of human-technology > > > >> interaction and suggested perhaps social media was a new type > > > >> of human-technology interaction. I don't agree with this phrasing. > > > >> I tend to think of > > > Facebook > > > >> more as an application of Internet technology - but either way > > > >> Facebook > > > is > > > >> just a form or an application. Is the internetworking of > > > >> computer, radio and satellite communication an enormous step > > > >> forward in how humans communicate. I think so - it's really > > > >> extraordinary on a number of > > > levels > > > >> but that's really not the conversation for this article. > > > >> > > > >> I do think the authors have done an analysis that is > > > >> interesting and possibly important, especially when one > > > >> considers what is currently > > > going > > > >> on down in Parkland (some might be happy to know that, at least > > > >> from > > > what I > > > >> have read, Facebook isn't dominant or even that important for > > > >> these students. Adults have been using it more for larger > > > >> organizational > > > events > > > >> like the March 14 walkout and the March 24 march). I have read > > > >> some articles on organizing on online forums (and actually > > > >> wrote a not very > > > good > > > >> one a few years back). Most of them are communications based an > > > >> don't > > > have > > > >> strong theoretical underpinning which is why I think this > > > >> article might > > > be > > > >> an important step forward. > > > >> > > > >> I think the idea of using third generation activity theory > > > >> might be a > > > good > > > >> idea for this type of analysis. I myself have seen ties between > > > >> the trialogical approach being developed by Hakkareinan and > > > >> Paavola and > > > what is > > > >> going on down in Parkland. The students are creating their own > > > >> projects > > > and > > > >> then getting the larger community to buy in to and support what > > > >> they are doing which is in turn changing the quality of their > > > >> activities. I have > > > my > > > >> own ideas on why this is suddenly happening and direct > > > >> communication technologies like Twitter and texting (which seem > > > >> primary vehicles) are only part of it. > > > >> > > > >> Anyway, this particular article I think is really timely and > > > >> should give us a lot to think about. > > > >> > > > >> Michael > > > >> > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > > >> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg > > > >> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2018 6:03 PM > > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in > > > >> Brazilian > > > schools > > > >> > > > >> So in the fifteenth century, Gutenberg exapted extant > > > >> technology already widely available in China and published a > > > >> single text using moveable > > > type > > > >> which started a profound intellectual, cultural, and social > > > >> revolution whose effects we still feel today: the rise of > > > >> Protestantism, the Counter-Reformation in, among other places, > > > >> Brazil, the Wars of > > > Religion in > > > >> France, the vicissitudes of a multii-confessional (political) > > > >> State and ultimately those of a multi-confessional > > > >> (psychological) state, In the twentieth century, Ford similarly > > > >> exapted extant technology, this time nearly two millenia later > > > >> than China, and mass-produced automobiles > > > using > > > >> Taylorism, forcing everybody to buy an identical product with > > > >> interchangeable parts made by factories with interchangeable > workers. > > > >> The automobile "revolution" did not even give us new roads, and > > > >> in Seoul today traffic moves notably slower than it would on > > > >> horseback. Clearly, there are some forms of technology that are > > > >> actually semiogenic--and > > > others > > > >> which merely circulate capital at a faster rate and actually > > > >> slow the movement of people and new ideas. > > > >> > > > >> So my question is very simple. How do we know that "Facebook" > > > >> (which as the name implies was originally designed to help > > > >> Harvard freshmen decide which classmates were sufficiently hot > > > >> to > > > >> "like") is really one of the former technologies?.There are > > > >> very clear signs , beyond the obvious > > > ones > > > >> surrounding the American origins, that it belongs to the latter > > > category, > > > >> and not a few of them appear in this very article. First of > > > >> all, the authors are honest enough to associate Facebook with > > > >> reactionary, xenophobic, populist movements like the clowns who > > > >> run > > the "Five Stars" > > > >> movement in Italy. Second, on the very first page, the authors > > > >> try but > > > do > > > >> not really seem to be able to distinguish between the "post > > > >> first and organize later" technologies of Occupy Wall Street > > > >> and the use of social media by the four movements in the > > > >> article (including one actually > > > called > > > >> "Occupy Everything"). And thirdly, it is very hard for me to > > > >> pinpoint > > > any > > > >> actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was > > > >> made > > > possible > > > >> by Facebook. If anything, Facebook seems to narrow semiogenic > > > >> power to a single consumer/computer menu. Ford said, you can > > > >> get a Model A in any color you like so long as it's black. > > > >> Facebook tells us the same thing, > > > but > > > >> makes the verb "like" intransitive. > > > >> > > > >> David Kellogg > > > >> Sangmyung University > > > >> > > > >> Recent Article in *Early Years* > > > >> > > > >> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s > > > >> crises, and the child?s first interrogatives > > > >> > > >> doi/full/10.1080/09575146.2018.1431874> > > > >> > > > >> Free e-print available at: > > > >> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 7:30 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > > > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > > > >> wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> Dear xmca'ers, > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> it is (bit over) due time for introducing the article for > > > >>> discussion from MCA's 2018 Issue 1, before Issue 2 comes upon > > > >>> us > > soon. > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> The selected article, by Monica Ferreira Lemos and Fernando > > > >>> Rezende da Cunha J?nior, is about two topics that were > > > >>> thematised in the last ISCAR congress and that ought to be of > > > >>> much relevance to current and future CHAT-related research: > > > >>> Social media and social movements. In particular, the article > > > >>> examines how students use social media for the organization > > > >>> and development of 4 social > > movements in Brazil. > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> The article is attached and is Free access during the > > > >>> discussion > > > period. > > > >>> It can be accessed free in the following link: > > > >>> > > > >>> https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2017.137 > > > >>> 98 > > > >>> 23 > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> The authors have kindly agreed to participate in the > > > >>> discussion and they will be introducing themselves soon. I > > > >>> hope you will find the article interesting and please don't > > > >>> be shy to share anything you might have learned reading it, > > > >>> anything you might wonder about it or that you would like see > > > >>> discussed. Having authors engage in dialogue is a great > > > >>> opportunity that this community offers and that makes sense > > > >>> the most when many of you > > participate. Good reading! > > > >>> > > > >>> ? > > > >>> > > > >>> Alfredo Jornet > > > >>> > > > >>> New article in *Design Studies* "Imagning Design: Transitive > > > >>> and intransitive dimensions" > > > >>> Free print available: > > > >>> https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > > > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > From annalisa@unm.edu Sat Mar 17 21:35:12 2018 From: annalisa@unm.edu (Annalisa Aguilar) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2018 04:35:12 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Not sure what to make of "Davos for Millenials" Message-ID: So I am reading this and thinking, what about this doesn't seem off? And what about this does seem off? I am putting this to you Xmcars: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/mar/16/powder-mountain-ski-resort-summit-elite-club-rich-millennials Kind regards, Annalisa From andyb@marxists.org Sat Mar 17 22:23:38 2018 From: andyb@marxists.org (Andy Blunden) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2018 16:23:38 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Not sure what to make of "Davos for Millenials" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7cbbe447-1825-453f-5c86-5d1bb7a26112@marxists.org> Trickle-down life-style, eh? Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm On 18/03/2018 3:35 PM, Annalisa Aguilar wrote: > So I am reading this and thinking, what about this doesn't seem off? And what about this does seem off? > > > I am putting this to you Xmcars: > > > https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/mar/16/powder-mountain-ski-resort-summit-elite-club-rich-millennials > > > Kind regards, > > > Annalisa From annalisa@unm.edu Sun Mar 18 06:21:04 2018 From: annalisa@unm.edu (Annalisa Aguilar) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2018 13:21:04 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Not sure what to make of "Davos for Millenials" In-Reply-To: <7cbbe447-1825-453f-5c86-5d1bb7a26112@marxists.org> References: , <7cbbe447-1825-453f-5c86-5d1bb7a26112@marxists.org> Message-ID: Andy et al Not exactly, but that's the obvious consideration. What I have noticed as of late is this sort of strange union between (what I will name) community-sharing and entrepreneurial-exceptionalism. It almost seems communism American-style. Or Communism with the eye for Capitalist innovation. I mean there is a sort of commune mentality of building a better place through a utopian model (though it may not be YOUR idea of Utopia, there is a prefiguration of sorts happening). What they are doing seems a lot like the communes in the 60s & 70s in California. But the difference is it has traveled east to Utah, and taken on the metaphor of rarified air to the extreme. And they have the money that the hippies never had. Also these are the kids of hippies generationally speaking. But more to the point, I detected in this story, what these young people are doing, there is an expression of Vygotskian theory there. How the society is being created to create the minds of the individuals who comprise the society. Something like that. And I wanted to ask the list if you see what I do. I guess I seek a reality check, because it seems there is something familiar, but something unfamiliar about this. There is a kind of self-awareness of learning that they have, a self-consciousness of participating in a social experiment, but with this wafting aroma of Ayn Rand. What I mean when I say that, it that they seem to believe in the individual and that every one and anyone can leverage the internet and become the best human they can be, if only people just unleash their latent potential. And then below that layer is the implication that anyone who doesn't do this, is somehow choosing to settle for their fate, rather than create their own fate. It's all about applying oneself against the odds of extreme environments. And winning against the odds. It's weird. Comments? Kind regards, Annalisa ________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Andy Blunden Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2018 11:23:38 PM To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Not sure what to make of "Davos for Millenials" Trickle-down life-style, eh? Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm On 18/03/2018 3:35 PM, Annalisa Aguilar wrote: > So I am reading this and thinking, what about this doesn't seem off? And what about this does seem off? > > > I am putting this to you Xmcars: > > > https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/mar/16/powder-mountain-ski-resort-summit-elite-club-rich-millennials > > > Kind regards, > > > Annalisa From mcole@ucsd.edu Sun Mar 18 15:33:58 2018 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2018 15:33:58 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Cultural historical Message-ID: This synoptic story of the current state of research on human origins seems relevant to the cultural-historical folks around. mike https://www.sapiens.org/evolution/human-evolution-australia-asia/?utm_source=SAPIENS.org+Subscribers&utm_campaign=1b31c25316-Email+Blast+12.22.2017&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_18b7e41cd8-1b31c25316-199570669 From miyasan@waseda.jp Mon Mar 19 01:33:12 2018 From: miyasan@waseda.jp (=?utf-8?B?5a6u5bSO5riF5a2d?=) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2018 17:33:12 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Request Message-ID: <465070B3-5F86-42E1-8681-2903A737A3C4@waseda.jp> Dear xmca administrator, Can you please add my ex-advisee and friend Seima Ooyama to xmca mailing list? HIs address is: seima.ooyama@gmail.com Thank you in advance Kiyotaka Miyazaki Waseda University, Japan. From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Mon Mar 19 01:41:17 2018 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2018 08:41:17 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Request In-Reply-To: <465070B3-5F86-42E1-8681-2903A737A3C4@waseda.jp> References: <465070B3-5F86-42E1-8681-2903A737A3C4@waseda.jp> Message-ID: <1521448877276.81595@iped.uio.no> Thanks Kiyotaka Miyazaki. To subscribe to the list, please follow the following link: http://lchc-resources.org/xmca/ I was just now trying the link and the server seemed to be down. If the problem persist when you try to subscribe, Seima Ooyama, please send e-mail to me and Bruce Jones, e-mail: bjones@ucsd.edu Alfredo Jornet ________________________________ New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and intransitive dimensions" Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of ???? Sent: 19 March 2018 09:33 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Cc: seima.ooyama@gmail.com Subject: [Xmca-l] Request Dear xmca administrator, Can you please add my ex-advisee and friend Seima Ooyama to xmca mailing list? HIs address is: seima.ooyama@gmail.com Thank you in advance Kiyotaka Miyazaki Waseda University, Japan. From miyasan@waseda.jp Mon Mar 19 01:47:17 2018 From: miyasan@waseda.jp (=?utf-8?B?5a6u5bSO5riF5a2d?=) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2018 17:47:17 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Request In-Reply-To: <1521448877276.81595@iped.uio.no> References: <465070B3-5F86-42E1-8681-2903A737A3C4@waseda.jp> <1521448877276.81595@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: Dear Alfredo, Thank you! Yes, the server must be down?. Anyway, thank you again. Kiyo Miyazaki > 2018/03/19 17:41?Alfredo Jornet Gil ????: > > Thanks Kiyotaka Miyazaki. > To subscribe to the list, please follow the following link: > http://lchc-resources.org/xmca/ > > I was just now trying the link and the server seemed to be down. If the problem persist when you try to subscribe, Seima Ooyama, please send e-mail to me and Bruce Jones, e-mail: bjones@ucsd.edu > > Alfredo Jornet > ________________________________ > New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and intransitive dimensions" > Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > > ________________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of ???? > Sent: 19 March 2018 09:33 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Cc: seima.ooyama@gmail.com > Subject: [Xmca-l] Request > > Dear xmca administrator, > > Can you please add my ex-advisee and friend Seima Ooyama to xmca mailing list? HIs address is: > > seima.ooyama@gmail.com > > Thank you in advance > > Kiyotaka Miyazaki > Waseda University, Japan. From dkellogg60@gmail.com Mon Mar 19 05:50:39 2018 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2018 21:50:39 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Somewhere in the discussion of Monica and Fernando's article, Fernando made the remark that history does not know "ifs". Similarly, Monica implied at one point that large technological changes must be taken as given; they are not something over which humans have control. But even if we accept the "Out of Africa" story which this article undermines, we are left with the apparently conscious decision of early hominids to leave the home continent, something none of the other great apes ever determined upon. Vygotsky remarked that rudiments of all four forms of higher behavior--instinct, enculturation, creativity, and free will that is none of these--appear even in infancy. So it appears that free will was always part of anthropogenesis, and consequently that history--including present history--knows nothing but ifs. We just don't see the others because we are sitting in one of them. David Kellogg Sangmyung University Recent Article in *Early Years* The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and the child?s first interrogatives Free e-print available at: https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 7:33 AM, mike cole wrote: > This synoptic story of the current state of research on human origins seems > relevant to the cultural-historical folks around. > mike > > https://www.sapiens.org/evolution/human-evolution- > australia-asia/?utm_source=SAPIENS.org+Subscribers&utm_ > campaign=1b31c25316-Email+Blast+12.22.2017&utm_medium= > email&utm_term=0_18b7e41cd8-1b31c25316-199570669 > From andyb@marxists.org Mon Mar 19 06:08:17 2018 From: andyb@marxists.org (Andy Blunden) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2018 00:08:17 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The thing that intrigues me is that it seems that spoken language pre-dates (at 150-350,000 years ago) the rapid development in technology. I thought the migration patterns were pretty well settled by now, and that "hobbit" found in Flores is a diversion), Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm On 19/03/2018 11:50 PM, David Kellogg wrote: > Somewhere in the discussion of Monica and Fernando's article, Fernando made > the remark that history does not know "ifs". Similarly, Monica implied at > one point that large technological changes must be taken as given; they are > not something over which humans have control. But even if we accept > the "Out of Africa" story which this article undermines, we are left with > the apparently conscious decision of early hominids to leave the home > continent, something none of the other great apes ever determined upon. > Vygotsky remarked that rudiments of all four forms of higher > behavior--instinct, enculturation, creativity, and free will that is none > of these--appear even in infancy. So it appears that free will was always > part of anthropogenesis, and consequently that history--including present > history--knows nothing but ifs. We just don't see the others because we are > sitting in one of them. > > David Kellogg > Sangmyung University > > Recent Article in *Early Years* > > The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and the > child?s first interrogatives > > > Free e-print available at: > https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full > > > On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 7:33 AM, mike cole wrote: > >> This synoptic story of the current state of research on human origins seems >> relevant to the cultural-historical folks around. >> mike >> >> https://www.sapiens.org/evolution/human-evolution- >> australia-asia/?utm_source=SAPIENS.org+Subscribers&utm_ >> campaign=1b31c25316-Email+Blast+12.22.2017&utm_medium= >> email&utm_term=0_18b7e41cd8-1b31c25316-199570669 >> From glassman.13@osu.edu Mon Mar 19 07:13:13 2018 From: glassman.13@osu.edu (Glassman, Michael) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2018 14:13:13 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF40B9@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> Isn't spoken language a technology? Michael -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden Sent: Monday, March 19, 2018 9:08 AM To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical The thing that intrigues me is that it seems that spoken language pre-dates (at 150-350,000 years ago) the rapid development in technology. I thought the migration patterns were pretty well settled by now, and that "hobbit" found in Flores is a diversion), Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm On 19/03/2018 11:50 PM, David Kellogg wrote: > Somewhere in the discussion of Monica and Fernando's article, Fernando > made the remark that history does not know "ifs". Similarly, Monica > implied at one point that large technological changes must be taken as > given; they are not something over which humans have control. But even > if we accept the "Out of Africa" story which this article undermines, > we are left with the apparently conscious decision of early hominids > to leave the home continent, something none of the other great apes ever determined upon. > Vygotsky remarked that rudiments of all four forms of higher > behavior--instinct, enculturation, creativity, and free will that is > none of these--appear even in infancy. So it appears that free will > was always part of anthropogenesis, and consequently that > history--including present history--knows nothing but ifs. We just > don't see the others because we are sitting in one of them. > > David Kellogg > Sangmyung University > > Recent Article in *Early Years* > > The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and > the child?s first interrogatives > > > Free e-print available at: > https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full > > > On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 7:33 AM, mike cole wrote: > >> This synoptic story of the current state of research on human origins >> seems relevant to the cultural-historical folks around. >> mike >> >> https://www.sapiens.org/evolution/human-evolution- >> australia-asia/?utm_source=SAPIENS.org+Subscribers&utm_ >> campaign=1b31c25316-Email+Blast+12.22.2017&utm_medium= >> email&utm_term=0_18b7e41cd8-1b31c25316-199570669 >> From dkirsh@lsu.edu Mon Mar 19 07:57:00 2018 From: dkirsh@lsu.edu (David H Kirshner) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2018 14:57:00 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical In-Reply-To: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF40B9@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> References: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF40B9@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> Message-ID: I hope this question is addressed. Language is different from technology in the sense that it has not been designed by humans (who still struggle to understand it's structures). Of course, a rock which is used as a weapon also has not been designed by humans. Still, in picking up a rock to use as a weapon, the wielder is cognizant of its size and shape, and uses it deliberatively and strategically. In some cases, language is used in a similar deliberative and strategic sense to accomplish ends. But as I understand it, the Vygotskian understanding of language as a tool references language in its non-deliberative and strategic deployment, so the usual prescriptions that apply to understanding tools and technologies does not apply. David -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu On Behalf Of Glassman, Michael Sent: Monday, March 19, 2018 9:13 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical Isn't spoken language a technology? Michael -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden Sent: Monday, March 19, 2018 9:08 AM To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical The thing that intrigues me is that it seems that spoken language pre-dates (at 150-350,000 years ago) the rapid development in technology. I thought the migration patterns were pretty well settled by now, and that "hobbit" found in Flores is a diversion), Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm On 19/03/2018 11:50 PM, David Kellogg wrote: > Somewhere in the discussion of Monica and Fernando's article, Fernando > made the remark that history does not know "ifs". Similarly, Monica > implied at one point that large technological changes must be taken as > given; they are not something over which humans have control. But even > if we accept the "Out of Africa" story which this article undermines, > we are left with the apparently conscious decision of early hominids > to leave the home continent, something none of the other great apes ever determined upon. > Vygotsky remarked that rudiments of all four forms of higher > behavior--instinct, enculturation, creativity, and free will that is > none of these--appear even in infancy. So it appears that free will > was always part of anthropogenesis, and consequently that > history--including present history--knows nothing but ifs. We just > don't see the others because we are sitting in one of them. > > David Kellogg > Sangmyung University > > Recent Article in *Early Years* > > The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and > the child?s first interrogatives > > > Free e-print available at: > https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full > > > On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 7:33 AM, mike cole wrote: > >> This synoptic story of the current state of research on human origins >> seems relevant to the cultural-historical folks around. >> mike >> >> https://www.sapiens.org/evolution/human-evolution- >> australia-asia/?utm_source=SAPIENS.org+Subscribers&utm_ >> campaign=1b31c25316-Email+Blast+12.22.2017&utm_medium= >> email&utm_term=0_18b7e41cd8-1b31c25316-199570669 >> From glassman.13@osu.edu Mon Mar 19 08:08:29 2018 From: glassman.13@osu.edu (Glassman, Michael) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2018 15:08:29 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical In-Reply-To: References: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF40B9@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> Message-ID: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF40FA@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> Hi David, So are you completely throwing out the Pragmatist view of language, that is was developed by humans to meet needs within their particular development canals? (pace Waddington). Are you taking a Chomskina view? As far as Vygotsky, I have a bias as seeing him have strong affiliations with the American pragmatist of the early 20th century. What would the cultural historical view be (the reason it might be okay to keep the subject line). Michael -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David H Kirshner Sent: Monday, March 19, 2018 10:57 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical I hope this question is addressed. Language is different from technology in the sense that it has not been designed by humans (who still struggle to understand it's structures). Of course, a rock which is used as a weapon also has not been designed by humans. Still, in picking up a rock to use as a weapon, the wielder is cognizant of its size and shape, and uses it deliberatively and strategically. In some cases, language is used in a similar deliberative and strategic sense to accomplish ends. But as I understand it, the Vygotskian understanding of language as a tool references language in its non-deliberative and strategic deployment, so the usual prescriptions that apply to understanding tools and technologies does not apply. David -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu On Behalf Of Glassman, Michael Sent: Monday, March 19, 2018 9:13 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical Isn't spoken language a technology? Michael -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden Sent: Monday, March 19, 2018 9:08 AM To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical The thing that intrigues me is that it seems that spoken language pre-dates (at 150-350,000 years ago) the rapid development in technology. I thought the migration patterns were pretty well settled by now, and that "hobbit" found in Flores is a diversion), Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm On 19/03/2018 11:50 PM, David Kellogg wrote: > Somewhere in the discussion of Monica and Fernando's article, Fernando > made the remark that history does not know "ifs". Similarly, Monica > implied at one point that large technological changes must be taken as > given; they are not something over which humans have control. But even > if we accept the "Out of Africa" story which this article undermines, > we are left with the apparently conscious decision of early hominids > to leave the home continent, something none of the other great apes ever determined upon. > Vygotsky remarked that rudiments of all four forms of higher > behavior--instinct, enculturation, creativity, and free will that is > none of these--appear even in infancy. So it appears that free will > was always part of anthropogenesis, and consequently that > history--including present history--knows nothing but ifs. We just > don't see the others because we are sitting in one of them. > > David Kellogg > Sangmyung University > > Recent Article in *Early Years* > > The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and > the child?s first interrogatives > > > Free e-print available at: > https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full > > > On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 7:33 AM, mike cole wrote: > >> This synoptic story of the current state of research on human origins >> seems relevant to the cultural-historical folks around. >> mike >> >> https://www.sapiens.org/evolution/human-evolution- >> australia-asia/?utm_source=SAPIENS.org+Subscribers&utm_ >> campaign=1b31c25316-Email+Blast+12.22.2017&utm_medium= >> email&utm_term=0_18b7e41cd8-1b31c25316-199570669 >> From robsub@ariadne.org.uk Mon Mar 19 08:36:04 2018 From: robsub@ariadne.org.uk (robsub@ariadne.org.uk) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2018 15:36:04 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical In-Reply-To: References: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF40B9@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> Message-ID: <01eea801-ea33-738e-da9d-1e20a51bb0e2@ariadne.org.uk> Is there not a sense in which humans do design language? Perhaps our ancestors did not deliberately develop the noises they made, but since then people do develop their languages to meet particular needs and motives. Are we not constantly developing a language to enable discussion of CHAT? From another angle perhaps while "language" was not designed, "some languages" may have been. Esperanto was deliberately developed for unification purposes. And Klingon and Na'vi were developed for whatever reasons we might attribute - aesthetic, commercial, status seeking.... Or, maybe the issue of when a language becomes a tool is the same as other tools. We pick up a rock to smash open a shell; later we smash the rock to create one we can hold more easily; later on we rub our new rock against another to produce a sharper edge. At what point does the rock become a tool? On 19/03/2018 14:57, David H Kirshner wrote: > I hope this question is addressed. > Language is different from technology in the sense that it has not been designed by humans (who still struggle to understand it's structures). > Of course, a rock which is used as a weapon also has not been designed by humans. > Still, in picking up a rock to use as a weapon, the wielder is cognizant of its size and shape, and uses it deliberatively and strategically. > In some cases, language is used in a similar deliberative and strategic sense to accomplish ends. But as I understand it, the Vygotskian understanding of language as a tool references language in its non-deliberative and strategic deployment, so the usual prescriptions that apply to understanding tools and technologies does not apply. > David > > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu On Behalf Of Glassman, Michael > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2018 9:13 AM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > > Isn't spoken language a technology? > > Michael > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2018 9:08 AM > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > > The thing that intrigues me is that it seems that spoken language pre-dates (at 150-350,000 years ago) the rapid development in technology. > I thought the migration patterns were pretty well settled by now, and that "hobbit" found in Flores is a diversion), > > Andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > On 19/03/2018 11:50 PM, David Kellogg wrote: >> Somewhere in the discussion of Monica and Fernando's article, Fernando >> made the remark that history does not know "ifs". Similarly, Monica >> implied at one point that large technological changes must be taken as >> given; they are not something over which humans have control. But even >> if we accept the "Out of Africa" story which this article undermines, >> we are left with the apparently conscious decision of early hominids >> to leave the home continent, something none of the other great apes ever determined upon. >> Vygotsky remarked that rudiments of all four forms of higher >> behavior--instinct, enculturation, creativity, and free will that is >> none of these--appear even in infancy. So it appears that free will >> was always part of anthropogenesis, and consequently that >> history--including present history--knows nothing but ifs. We just >> don't see the others because we are sitting in one of them. >> >> David Kellogg >> Sangmyung University >> >> Recent Article in *Early Years* >> >> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and >> the child?s first interrogatives >> >> >> Free e-print available at: >> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full >> >> >> On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 7:33 AM, mike cole wrote: >> >>> This synoptic story of the current state of research on human origins >>> seems relevant to the cultural-historical folks around. >>> mike >>> >>> https://www.sapiens.org/evolution/human-evolution- >>> australia-asia/?utm_source=SAPIENS.org+Subscribers&utm_ >>> campaign=1b31c25316-Email+Blast+12.22.2017&utm_medium= >>> email&utm_term=0_18b7e41cd8-1b31c25316-199570669 >>> > > > From pfeigenbaum@fordham.edu Mon Mar 19 09:35:35 2018 From: pfeigenbaum@fordham.edu (Peter Feigenbaum [Staff]) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2018 12:35:35 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical In-Reply-To: <01eea801-ea33-738e-da9d-1e20a51bb0e2@ariadne.org.uk> References: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF40B9@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <01eea801-ea33-738e-da9d-1e20a51bb0e2@ariadne.org.uk> Message-ID: Dear colleagues, The Marxist conception of both societal and linguistic development places the activities of humans at the center of these developments - but not in a conscious mode. Both political economy and speech communication arose without deliberation. They only become (or are becoming) conscious practices as the process of development proceeds. It sure would be a leap forward if Activity Theory could accommodate and elucidate this fact. My two cents. (p.s. - I'm glad to be back and participating in these lively discussions once again!) In solidarity, Peter On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 11:36 AM, robsub@ariadne.org.uk < robsub@ariadne.org.uk> wrote: > Is there not a sense in which humans do design language? Perhaps our > ancestors did not deliberately develop the noises they made, but since then > people do develop their languages to meet particular needs and motives. Are > we not constantly developing a language to enable discussion of CHAT? > > From another angle perhaps while "language" was not designed, "some > languages" may have been. > > Esperanto was deliberately developed for unification purposes. > > And Klingon and Na'vi were developed for whatever reasons we might > attribute - aesthetic, commercial, status seeking.... > > Or, maybe the issue of when a language becomes a tool is the same as other > tools. We pick up a rock to smash open a shell; later we smash the rock to > create one we can hold more easily; later on we rub our new rock against > another to produce a sharper edge. At what point does the rock become a > tool? > > On 19/03/2018 14:57, David H Kirshner wrote: > >> I hope this question is addressed. >> Language is different from technology in the sense that it has not been >> designed by humans (who still struggle to understand it's structures). >> Of course, a rock which is used as a weapon also has not been designed by >> humans. >> Still, in picking up a rock to use as a weapon, the wielder is cognizant >> of its size and shape, and uses it deliberatively and strategically. >> In some cases, language is used in a similar deliberative and strategic >> sense to accomplish ends. But as I understand it, the Vygotskian >> understanding of language as a tool references language in its >> non-deliberative and strategic deployment, so the usual prescriptions that >> apply to understanding tools and technologies does not apply. >> David >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> On Behalf Of Glassman, Michael >> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2018 9:13 AM >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical >> >> Isn't spoken language a technology? >> >> Michael >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman >> .ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden >> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2018 9:08 AM >> To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical >> >> The thing that intrigues me is that it seems that spoken language >> pre-dates (at 150-350,000 years ago) the rapid development in technology. >> I thought the migration patterns were pretty well settled by now, and >> that "hobbit" found in Flores is a diversion), >> >> Andy >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> Andy Blunden >> ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm >> On 19/03/2018 11:50 PM, David Kellogg wrote: >> >>> Somewhere in the discussion of Monica and Fernando's article, Fernando >>> made the remark that history does not know "ifs". Similarly, Monica >>> implied at one point that large technological changes must be taken as >>> given; they are not something over which humans have control. But even >>> if we accept the "Out of Africa" story which this article undermines, >>> we are left with the apparently conscious decision of early hominids >>> to leave the home continent, something none of the other great apes ever >>> determined upon. >>> Vygotsky remarked that rudiments of all four forms of higher >>> behavior--instinct, enculturation, creativity, and free will that is >>> none of these--appear even in infancy. So it appears that free will >>> was always part of anthropogenesis, and consequently that >>> history--including present history--knows nothing but ifs. We just >>> don't see the others because we are sitting in one of them. >>> >>> David Kellogg >>> Sangmyung University >>> >>> Recent Article in *Early Years* >>> >>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and >>> the child?s first interrogatives >>> >> tandfonline.com_doi_full_10.1080_09575146.2018.1431874&d= >>> DwIDaQ&c=aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r=mXj3y >>> hpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=87L1r2yc_dKUJAd-s4O >>> QOmXpAqnBvM2mYeg8heDrnxU&s=UGDyItaXb0H7RIcmW3CfQNw0muBaeiOAI >>> 0IPAeNTKsQ&e=> >>> >>> Free e-print available at: >>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.tan >>> dfonline.com_eprint_6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW_full&d=DwIDaQ&c=aqM >>> fXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r=mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3K >>> ioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=87L1r2yc_dKUJAd-s4OQOmXpAqnBvM >>> 2mYeg8heDrnxU&s=7v5mBuROWZ-xbuP8pY840jy-a4cp9P0wikKUuCUEQH8&e= >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 7:33 AM, mike cole wrote: >>> >>> This synoptic story of the current state of research on human origins >>>> seems relevant to the cultural-historical folks around. >>>> mike >>>> >>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.sap >>>> iens.org_evolution_human-2Devolution-2D&d=DwIDaQ&c=aqMfXOEvE >>>> JQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r=mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0E >>>> CmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=87L1r2yc_dKUJAd-s4OQOmXpAqnBvM >>>> 2mYeg8heDrnxU&s=jVJeRQ4bO0CKGI6ODPJFz4AEeVKf6IGHK5_Cx-6QJ4o&e= >>>> australia-asia/?utm_source=SAPIENS.org+Subscribers&utm_ >>>> campaign=1b31c25316-Email+Blast+12.22.2017&utm_medium= >>>> email&utm_term=0_18b7e41cd8-1b31c25316-199570669 >>>> >>>> >> >> >> > > -- Peter Feigenbaum, Ph.D. Director, Office of Institutional Research Fordham University Thebaud Hall-202 Bronx, NY 10458 Phone: (718) 817-2243 Fax: (718) 817-3817 email: pfeigenbaum@fordham.edu From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Mon Mar 19 10:58:43 2018 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2018 17:58:43 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Request In-Reply-To: <1521448877276.81595@iped.uio.no> References: <465070B3-5F86-42E1-8681-2903A737A3C4@waseda.jp>, <1521448877276.81595@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: <1521482323898.15762@iped.uio.no> Dear all, thanks to Bruce's always prompt attention, the subscription server is up and running for anyone to subscribe at the following address: http://lchc-resources.org/xmca/ Alfredo Jornet ________________________________ New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and intransitive dimensions" Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Alfredo Jornet Gil Sent: 19 March 2018 09:41 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Cc: seima.ooyama@gmail.com Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Request Thanks Kiyotaka Miyazaki. To subscribe to the list, please follow the following link: http://lchc-resources.org/xmca/ I was just now trying the link and the server seemed to be down. If the problem persist when you try to subscribe, Seima Ooyama, please send e-mail to me and Bruce Jones, e-mail: bjones@ucsd.edu Alfredo Jornet ________________________________ New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and intransitive dimensions" Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of ???? Sent: 19 March 2018 09:33 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Cc: seima.ooyama@gmail.com Subject: [Xmca-l] Request Dear xmca administrator, Can you please add my ex-advisee and friend Seima Ooyama to xmca mailing list? HIs address is: seima.ooyama@gmail.com Thank you in advance Kiyotaka Miyazaki Waseda University, Japan. From dkirsh@lsu.edu Mon Mar 19 12:04:06 2018 From: dkirsh@lsu.edu (David H Kirshner) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2018 19:04:06 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical In-Reply-To: <01eea801-ea33-738e-da9d-1e20a51bb0e2@ariadne.org.uk> References: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF40B9@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <01eea801-ea33-738e-da9d-1e20a51bb0e2@ariadne.org.uk> Message-ID: I'm replying, here, also to Michael's question about the pragmatic view of language, and perhaps also to Peter's observations about non-deliberative speech. As I understand Vygotsky, thought is developed initially as internalized speech. And much verbalized speech constitutes thinking out loud. If we are using speech to think, this would seem to preclude using it instrumentally to affect the world. David -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu On Behalf Of robsub@ariadne.org.uk Sent: Monday, March 19, 2018 10:36 AM To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical Is there not a sense in which humans do design language? Perhaps our ancestors did not deliberately develop the noises they made, but since then people do develop their languages to meet particular needs and motives. Are we not constantly developing a language to enable discussion of CHAT? From another angle perhaps while "language" was not designed, "some languages" may have been. Esperanto was deliberately developed for unification purposes. And Klingon and Na'vi were developed for whatever reasons we might attribute - aesthetic, commercial, status seeking.... Or, maybe the issue of when a language becomes a tool is the same as other tools. We pick up a rock to smash open a shell; later we smash the rock to create one we can hold more easily; later on we rub our new rock against another to produce a sharper edge. At what point does the rock become a tool? On 19/03/2018 14:57, David H Kirshner wrote: > I hope this question is addressed. > Language is different from technology in the sense that it has not been designed by humans (who still struggle to understand it's structures). > Of course, a rock which is used as a weapon also has not been designed by humans. > Still, in picking up a rock to use as a weapon, the wielder is cognizant of its size and shape, and uses it deliberatively and strategically. > In some cases, language is used in a similar deliberative and strategic sense to accomplish ends. But as I understand it, the Vygotskian understanding of language as a tool references language in its non-deliberative and strategic deployment, so the usual prescriptions that apply to understanding tools and technologies does not apply. > David > > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > On Behalf Of Glassman, Michael > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2018 9:13 AM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > > Isn't spoken language a technology? > > Michael > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2018 9:08 AM > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > > The thing that intrigues me is that it seems that spoken language pre-dates (at 150-350,000 years ago) the rapid development in technology. > I thought the migration patterns were pretty well settled by now, and > that "hobbit" found in Flores is a diversion), > > Andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > On 19/03/2018 11:50 PM, David Kellogg wrote: >> Somewhere in the discussion of Monica and Fernando's article, >> Fernando made the remark that history does not know "ifs". Similarly, >> Monica implied at one point that large technological changes must be >> taken as given; they are not something over which humans have >> control. But even if we accept the "Out of Africa" story which this >> article undermines, we are left with the apparently conscious >> decision of early hominids to leave the home continent, something none of the other great apes ever determined upon. >> Vygotsky remarked that rudiments of all four forms of higher >> behavior--instinct, enculturation, creativity, and free will that is >> none of these--appear even in infancy. So it appears that free will >> was always part of anthropogenesis, and consequently that >> history--including present history--knows nothing but ifs. We just >> don't see the others because we are sitting in one of them. >> >> David Kellogg >> Sangmyung University >> >> Recent Article in *Early Years* >> >> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and >> the child?s first interrogatives >> >> >> Free e-print available at: >> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full >> >> >> On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 7:33 AM, mike cole wrote: >> >>> This synoptic story of the current state of research on human >>> origins seems relevant to the cultural-historical folks around. >>> mike >>> >>> https://www.sapiens.org/evolution/human-evolution- >>> australia-asia/?utm_source=SAPIENS.org+Subscribers&utm_ >>> campaign=1b31c25316-Email+Blast+12.22.2017&utm_medium= >>> email&utm_term=0_18b7e41cd8-1b31c25316-199570669 >>> > > > From dkellogg60@gmail.com Mon Mar 19 14:50:44 2018 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2018 06:50:44 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical In-Reply-To: References: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF40B9@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <01eea801-ea33-738e-da9d-1e20a51bb0e2@ariadne.org.uk> Message-ID: I don't think we have to accept Chomskyan innatism to accept the Chomskyan idea that language is (now, in adult humans) preponderantly a medium for thinking and not an instrument for acting directly on the material environment or even interacting with the social environment. If you compare the sheer volume of language you will use today, you will probably see that the number of clauses you will speak is greater than the number of clauses you will write. But the number of unspoken predications you will THINK may well greatly outnumber the number of clauses you will actually speak (you may well need more than one predication for every clause you speak, and there may be many propositions and proposals that go through your head" which are better left completely unsaid). Of course, this doesn't mean that acting on the environment didn't play a decisive role in the creation of language for thought; it's quite possible that language might emerge in one way (e.g. gesture) and then flourish in quite a different one (speech or thinking). So even the history of "technology", and certainly the history of science, is composed of "ifs", most of which are roads never taken, and others of which are for others the central, determining truth of their lives. This isn't just so for what Vygotsky called primitivism, paths of development which seem circuitous, indirect, and ultimately inexpedient from our point of view (e.g. deaf children who grow up with only "home sign" and not a true sign language). The fact that the novel took a very different path in China than it did in the West (Chinese novels never had the names of individuals and were not primarily preoccupied with any single consciousness) shows that paths untaken are nevertheless takeable and may even be even more worth taking than our own. David Kellogg Sangmyung University Recent Article in *Early Years* The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and the child?s first interrogatives Free e-print available at: https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 4:04 AM, David H Kirshner wrote: > I'm replying, here, also to Michael's question about the pragmatic view of > language, and perhaps also to Peter's observations about non-deliberative > speech. > > As I understand Vygotsky, thought is developed initially as internalized > speech. > And much verbalized speech constitutes thinking out loud. > > If we are using speech to think, this would seem to preclude using it > instrumentally to affect the world. > > David > > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > On Behalf Of robsub@ariadne.org.uk > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2018 10:36 AM > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > > Is there not a sense in which humans do design language? Perhaps our > ancestors did not deliberately develop the noises they made, but since then > people do develop their languages to meet particular needs and motives. Are > we not constantly developing a language to enable discussion of CHAT? > > From another angle perhaps while "language" was not designed, "some > languages" may have been. > > Esperanto was deliberately developed for unification purposes. > > And Klingon and Na'vi were developed for whatever reasons we might > attribute - aesthetic, commercial, status seeking.... > > Or, maybe the issue of when a language becomes a tool is the same as other > tools. We pick up a rock to smash open a shell; later we smash the rock to > create one we can hold more easily; later on we rub our new rock against > another to produce a sharper edge. At what point does the rock become a > tool? > > On 19/03/2018 14:57, David H Kirshner wrote: > > I hope this question is addressed. > > Language is different from technology in the sense that it has not been > designed by humans (who still struggle to understand it's structures). > > Of course, a rock which is used as a weapon also has not been designed > by humans. > > Still, in picking up a rock to use as a weapon, the wielder is cognizant > of its size and shape, and uses it deliberatively and strategically. > > In some cases, language is used in a similar deliberative and strategic > sense to accomplish ends. But as I understand it, the Vygotskian > understanding of language as a tool references language in its > non-deliberative and strategic deployment, so the usual prescriptions that > apply to understanding tools and technologies does not apply. > > David > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > On Behalf Of Glassman, Michael > > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2018 9:13 AM > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > > > > Isn't spoken language a technology? > > > > Michael > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden > > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2018 9:08 AM > > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > > > > The thing that intrigues me is that it seems that spoken language > pre-dates (at 150-350,000 years ago) the rapid development in technology. > > I thought the migration patterns were pretty well settled by now, and > > that "hobbit" found in Flores is a diversion), > > > > Andy > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Andy Blunden > > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > > On 19/03/2018 11:50 PM, David Kellogg wrote: > >> Somewhere in the discussion of Monica and Fernando's article, > >> Fernando made the remark that history does not know "ifs". Similarly, > >> Monica implied at one point that large technological changes must be > >> taken as given; they are not something over which humans have > >> control. But even if we accept the "Out of Africa" story which this > >> article undermines, we are left with the apparently conscious > >> decision of early hominids to leave the home continent, something none > of the other great apes ever determined upon. > >> Vygotsky remarked that rudiments of all four forms of higher > >> behavior--instinct, enculturation, creativity, and free will that is > >> none of these--appear even in infancy. So it appears that free will > >> was always part of anthropogenesis, and consequently that > >> history--including present history--knows nothing but ifs. We just > >> don't see the others because we are sitting in one of them. > >> > >> David Kellogg > >> Sangmyung University > >> > >> Recent Article in *Early Years* > >> > >> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and > >> the child?s first interrogatives > >> > >> > >> Free e-print available at: > >> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full > >> > >> > >> On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 7:33 AM, mike cole wrote: > >> > >>> This synoptic story of the current state of research on human > >>> origins seems relevant to the cultural-historical folks around. > >>> mike > >>> > >>> https://www.sapiens.org/evolution/human-evolution- > >>> australia-asia/?utm_source=SAPIENS.org+Subscribers&utm_ > >>> campaign=1b31c25316-Email+Blast+12.22.2017&utm_medium= > >>> email&utm_term=0_18b7e41cd8-1b31c25316-199570669 > >>> > > > > > > > > > > From dkirsh@lsu.edu Mon Mar 19 16:34:20 2018 From: dkirsh@lsu.edu (David H Kirshner) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2018 23:34:20 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical In-Reply-To: References: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF40B9@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <01eea801-ea33-738e-da9d-1e20a51bb0e2@ariadne.org.uk> Message-ID: So when sociocultural theorists talk about language as a tool, are they referencing this phylogenetic phase of intentional use of language-as-gesture, and ignoring its current function as "preponderantly a medium for thinking and not an instrument for acting directly on the material environment or even interacting with the social environment?" When I think of Vygotsky's ideas of development through crisis, I wonder if it doesn't make more sense to see the broader culture as the agent, using language-as-tool to work the child. David -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu On Behalf Of David Kellogg Sent: Monday, March 19, 2018 4:51 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical I don't think we have to accept Chomskyan innatism to accept the Chomskyan idea that language is (now, in adult humans) preponderantly a medium for thinking and not an instrument for acting directly on the material environment or even interacting with the social environment. If you compare the sheer volume of language you will use today, you will probably see that the number of clauses you will speak is greater than the number of clauses you will write. But the number of unspoken predications you will THINK may well greatly outnumber the number of clauses you will actually speak (you may well need more than one predication for every clause you speak, and there may be many propositions and proposals that go through your head" which are better left completely unsaid). Of course, this doesn't mean that acting on the environment didn't play a decisive role in the creation of language for thought; it's quite possible that language might emerge in one way (e.g. gesture) and then flourish in quite a different one (speech or thinking). So even the history of "technology", and certainly the history of science, is composed of "ifs", most of which are roads never taken, and others of which are for others the central, determining truth of their lives. This isn't just so for what Vygotsky called primitivism, paths of development which seem circuitous, indirect, and ultimately inexpedient from our point of view (e.g. deaf children who grow up with only "home sign" and not a true sign language). The fact that the novel took a very different path in China than it did in the West (Chinese novels never had the names of individuals and were not primarily preoccupied with any single consciousness) shows that paths untaken are nevertheless takeable and may even be even more worth taking than our own. David Kellogg Sangmyung University Recent Article in *Early Years* The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and the child?s first interrogatives Free e-print available at: https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 4:04 AM, David H Kirshner wrote: > I'm replying, here, also to Michael's question about the pragmatic > view of language, and perhaps also to Peter's observations about > non-deliberative speech. > > As I understand Vygotsky, thought is developed initially as > internalized speech. > And much verbalized speech constitutes thinking out loud. > > If we are using speech to think, this would seem to preclude using it > instrumentally to affect the world. > > David > > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > On Behalf Of robsub@ariadne.org.uk > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2018 10:36 AM > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > > Is there not a sense in which humans do design language? Perhaps our > ancestors did not deliberately develop the noises they made, but since > then people do develop their languages to meet particular needs and > motives. Are we not constantly developing a language to enable discussion of CHAT? > > From another angle perhaps while "language" was not designed, "some > languages" may have been. > > Esperanto was deliberately developed for unification purposes. > > And Klingon and Na'vi were developed for whatever reasons we might > attribute - aesthetic, commercial, status seeking.... > > Or, maybe the issue of when a language becomes a tool is the same as > other tools. We pick up a rock to smash open a shell; later we smash > the rock to create one we can hold more easily; later on we rub our > new rock against another to produce a sharper edge. At what point does > the rock become a tool? > > On 19/03/2018 14:57, David H Kirshner wrote: > > I hope this question is addressed. > > Language is different from technology in the sense that it has not > > been > designed by humans (who still struggle to understand it's structures). > > Of course, a rock which is used as a weapon also has not been > > designed > by humans. > > Still, in picking up a rock to use as a weapon, the wielder is > > cognizant > of its size and shape, and uses it deliberatively and strategically. > > In some cases, language is used in a similar deliberative and > > strategic > sense to accomplish ends. But as I understand it, the Vygotskian > understanding of language as a tool references language in its > non-deliberative and strategic deployment, so the usual prescriptions > that apply to understanding tools and technologies does not apply. > > David > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > On Behalf Of Glassman, Michael > > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2018 9:13 AM > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > > > > Isn't spoken language a technology? > > > > Michael > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden > > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2018 9:08 AM > > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > > > > The thing that intrigues me is that it seems that spoken language > pre-dates (at 150-350,000 years ago) the rapid development in technology. > > I thought the migration patterns were pretty well settled by now, > > and that "hobbit" found in Flores is a diversion), > > > > Andy > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Andy Blunden > > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > > On 19/03/2018 11:50 PM, David Kellogg wrote: > >> Somewhere in the discussion of Monica and Fernando's article, > >> Fernando made the remark that history does not know "ifs". > >> Similarly, Monica implied at one point that large technological > >> changes must be taken as given; they are not something over which > >> humans have control. But even if we accept the "Out of Africa" > >> story which this article undermines, we are left with the > >> apparently conscious decision of early hominids to leave the home > >> continent, something none > of the other great apes ever determined upon. > >> Vygotsky remarked that rudiments of all four forms of higher > >> behavior--instinct, enculturation, creativity, and free will that > >> is none of these--appear even in infancy. So it appears that free > >> will was always part of anthropogenesis, and consequently that > >> history--including present history--knows nothing but ifs. We just > >> don't see the others because we are sitting in one of them. > >> > >> David Kellogg > >> Sangmyung University > >> > >> Recent Article in *Early Years* > >> > >> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, > >> and the child?s first interrogatives > >> >> > > >> > >> Free e-print available at: > >> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full > >> > >> > >> On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 7:33 AM, mike cole wrote: > >> > >>> This synoptic story of the current state of research on human > >>> origins seems relevant to the cultural-historical folks around. > >>> mike > >>> > >>> https://www.sapiens.org/evolution/human-evolution- > >>> australia-asia/?utm_source=SAPIENS.org+Subscribers&utm_ > >>> campaign=1b31c25316-Email+Blast+12.22.2017&utm_medium= > >>> email&utm_term=0_18b7e41cd8-1b31c25316-199570669 > >>> > > > > > > > > > > From andyb@marxists.org Mon Mar 19 16:36:35 2018 From: andyb@marxists.org (Andy Blunden) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2018 10:36:35 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical In-Reply-To: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF40FA@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> References: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF40B9@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF40FA@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> Message-ID: <76e2a0e5-f6b8-62d4-1460-0810e30c83f5@marxists.org> Oh dear! I had no idea what I was going to open here. All my lights - Hegel, Marx and Vygotsky - make a qualitative distinction between sign-use and tool-use and Vygotsky made a big deal of the distinction, and for his own reasons, at the time, wrote with some passion against the idea of lumping the two together as "artefact-mediated actions." While I think that the evolutionary origins of these two forms of action are tied up together, I have long been intrigued by the question of which leads which, and whether this is a sensible question at all? Engels was sure that cooperative tool-use stimulated the need for language but I am not so sure. There is a philosophical-type argument which says that by fashioning external objects as proxies for human powers fosters the mental shift required for symbolic speech. But there are lots of things people can do together before they make tools. But I am interested in the paleontology of this. The changes in the position of the larynx in particular which made speech physically possible for hominids, and on the other hand, the evidence of stone tools. The 150,000-350,000 years ago figure comes from linguistic analysis to do with the rate of phoneme loss, but the descended larynx must presumably predate the use of a universal language by a long time. Some people put the origins of speech-ability back to 2 million years ago, and stone tools go back further. But then again, stone tools didn't develop much at all for millions of years, and the really rapid development in tool-use is very recent, much more recent than the origin of universal languages. Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm On 20/03/2018 2:08 AM, Glassman, Michael wrote: > Hi David, > > So are you completely throwing out the Pragmatist view of language, that is was developed by humans to meet needs within their particular development canals? (pace Waddington). Are you taking a Chomskina view? > > As far as Vygotsky, I have a bias as seeing him have strong affiliations with the American pragmatist of the early 20th century. > > What would the cultural historical view be (the reason it might be okay to keep the subject line). > > Michael > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David H Kirshner > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2018 10:57 AM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > > I hope this question is addressed. > Language is different from technology in the sense that it has not been designed by humans (who still struggle to understand it's structures). > Of course, a rock which is used as a weapon also has not been designed by humans. > Still, in picking up a rock to use as a weapon, the wielder is cognizant of its size and shape, and uses it deliberatively and strategically. > In some cases, language is used in a similar deliberative and strategic sense to accomplish ends. But as I understand it, the Vygotskian understanding of language as a tool references language in its non-deliberative and strategic deployment, so the usual prescriptions that apply to understanding tools and technologies does not apply. > David > > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu On Behalf Of Glassman, Michael > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2018 9:13 AM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > > Isn't spoken language a technology? > > Michael > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2018 9:08 AM > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > > The thing that intrigues me is that it seems that spoken language pre-dates (at 150-350,000 years ago) the rapid development in technology. > I thought the migration patterns were pretty well settled by now, and that "hobbit" found in Flores is a diversion), > > Andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > On 19/03/2018 11:50 PM, David Kellogg wrote: >> Somewhere in the discussion of Monica and Fernando's article, Fernando >> made the remark that history does not know "ifs". Similarly, Monica >> implied at one point that large technological changes must be taken as >> given; they are not something over which humans have control. But even >> if we accept the "Out of Africa" story which this article undermines, >> we are left with the apparently conscious decision of early hominids >> to leave the home continent, something none of the other great apes ever determined upon. >> Vygotsky remarked that rudiments of all four forms of higher >> behavior--instinct, enculturation, creativity, and free will that is >> none of these--appear even in infancy. So it appears that free will >> was always part of anthropogenesis, and consequently that >> history--including present history--knows nothing but ifs. We just >> don't see the others because we are sitting in one of them. >> >> David Kellogg >> Sangmyung University >> >> Recent Article in *Early Years* >> >> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and >> the child?s first interrogatives >> >> >> Free e-print available at: >> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full >> >> >> On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 7:33 AM, mike cole wrote: >> >>> This synoptic story of the current state of research on human origins >>> seems relevant to the cultural-historical folks around. >>> mike >>> >>> https://www.sapiens.org/evolution/human-evolution- >>> australia-asia/?utm_source=SAPIENS.org+Subscribers&utm_ >>> campaign=1b31c25316-Email+Blast+12.22.2017&utm_medium= >>> email&utm_term=0_18b7e41cd8-1b31c25316-199570669 >>> > > > From d.s.webster@durham.ac.uk Tue Mar 20 01:17:21 2018 From: d.s.webster@durham.ac.uk (WEBSTER, DAVID S.) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2018 08:17:21 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical In-Reply-To: <76e2a0e5-f6b8-62d4-1460-0810e30c83f5@marxists.org> References: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF40B9@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF40FA@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <76e2a0e5-f6b8-62d4-1460-0810e30c83f5@marxists.org> Message-ID: You will find interesting discussions of human/language origins here http://anthropoetics.ucla.edu/ Generative anthropology [GA] is the work of the American classicist Eric Gans drawing on the work of Rene Gerard (Gans was a student of Gerard). It illuminates Derrida(explicitly) and Vygotsky unknowingly. Here is a snippet: The sign, as we have noted, is the conversion of a gesture begun in imitation of the model?s appropriative gesture into the ?imitation? of the object that was the aim of this gesture. In performing the sign, I abandon my imitation of the other?s original intention of appropriating the object; I turn back from the object we desire in common. In consequence, my situation in performing this gesture is once again compatible with that of the other, whose action can take place simultaneously with mine without any danger of convergence on the object. The two gestures are not parallel as before, they are both directed toward the object, but they no longer seek to remove it from its central position. The object has now become the center of a scene [of language]. -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden Sent: 19 March 2018 23:37 To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical Oh dear! I had no idea what I was going to open here. All my lights - Hegel, Marx and Vygotsky - make a qualitative distinction between sign-use and tool-use and Vygotsky made a big deal of the distinction, and for his own reasons, at the time, wrote with some passion against the idea of lumping the two together as "artefact-mediated actions." While I think that the evolutionary origins of these two forms of action are tied up together, I have long been intrigued by the question of which leads which, and whether this is a sensible question at all? Engels was sure that cooperative tool-use stimulated the need for language but I am not so sure. There is a philosophical-type argument which says that by fashioning external objects as proxies for human powers fosters the mental shift required for symbolic speech. But there are lots of things people can do together before they make tools. But I am interested in the paleontology of this. The changes in the position of the larynx in particular which made speech physically possible for hominids, and on the other hand, the evidence of stone tools. The 150,000-350,000 years ago figure comes from linguistic analysis to do with the rate of phoneme loss, but the descended larynx must presumably predate the use of a universal language by a long time. Some people put the origins of speech-ability back to 2 million years ago, and stone tools go back further. But then again, stone tools didn't develop much at all for millions of years, and the really rapid development in tool-use is very recent, much more recent than the origin of universal languages. Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm On 20/03/2018 2:08 AM, Glassman, Michael wrote: > Hi David, > > So are you completely throwing out the Pragmatist view of language, that is was developed by humans to meet needs within their particular development canals? (pace Waddington). Are you taking a Chomskina view? > > As far as Vygotsky, I have a bias as seeing him have strong affiliations with the American pragmatist of the early 20th century. > > What would the cultural historical view be (the reason it might be okay to keep the subject line). > > Michael > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David H Kirshner > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2018 10:57 AM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > > I hope this question is addressed. > Language is different from technology in the sense that it has not been designed by humans (who still struggle to understand it's structures). > Of course, a rock which is used as a weapon also has not been designed by humans. > Still, in picking up a rock to use as a weapon, the wielder is cognizant of its size and shape, and uses it deliberatively and strategically. > In some cases, language is used in a similar deliberative and strategic sense to accomplish ends. But as I understand it, the Vygotskian understanding of language as a tool references language in its non-deliberative and strategic deployment, so the usual prescriptions that apply to understanding tools and technologies does not apply. > David > > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > On Behalf Of Glassman, Michael > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2018 9:13 AM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > > Isn't spoken language a technology? > > Michael > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2018 9:08 AM > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > > The thing that intrigues me is that it seems that spoken language pre-dates (at 150-350,000 years ago) the rapid development in technology. > I thought the migration patterns were pretty well settled by now, and > that "hobbit" found in Flores is a diversion), > > Andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > On 19/03/2018 11:50 PM, David Kellogg wrote: >> Somewhere in the discussion of Monica and Fernando's article, >> Fernando made the remark that history does not know "ifs". Similarly, >> Monica implied at one point that large technological changes must be >> taken as given; they are not something over which humans have >> control. But even if we accept the "Out of Africa" story which this >> article undermines, we are left with the apparently conscious >> decision of early hominids to leave the home continent, something none of the other great apes ever determined upon. >> Vygotsky remarked that rudiments of all four forms of higher >> behavior--instinct, enculturation, creativity, and free will that is >> none of these--appear even in infancy. So it appears that free will >> was always part of anthropogenesis, and consequently that >> history--including present history--knows nothing but ifs. We just >> don't see the others because we are sitting in one of them. >> >> David Kellogg >> Sangmyung University >> >> Recent Article in *Early Years* >> >> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and >> the child?s first interrogatives >> >> >> Free e-print available at: >> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full >> >> >> On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 7:33 AM, mike cole wrote: >> >>> This synoptic story of the current state of research on human >>> origins seems relevant to the cultural-historical folks around. >>> mike >>> >>> https://www.sapiens.org/evolution/human-evolution- >>> australia-asia/?utm_source=SAPIENS.org+Subscribers&utm_ >>> campaign=1b31c25316-Email+Blast+12.22.2017&utm_medium= >>> email&utm_term=0_18b7e41cd8-1b31c25316-199570669 >>> > > > From monica.lemos@gmail.com Tue Mar 20 06:04:20 2018 From: monica.lemos@gmail.com (Monica Lemos) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2018 10:04:20 -0300 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools In-Reply-To: <003601d3bd5e$1e105a40$5a310ec0$@att.net> References: <1520721034406.59651@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF245E@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <0bdd10ce-7411-8083-533f-44fcfb50e928@marxists.org> <1520858083490.87795@iped.uio.no> <2017557051.756650.1520967771201@mail.yahoo.com> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF29C7@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF2B93@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <1521156905718.23564@iped.uio.no> <001e01d3bd4e$f531b290$df9517b0$@att.net> <003601d3bd5e$1e105a40$5a310ec0$@att.net> Message-ID: Dear all, About Figure 3, our first challenge was on how to express the movements in activity systems, and soon we realized that it wouldn't be possible by using previous representations of an activity system, due to the expansion of the movements. So, we decided to place the object of the movement (big sphere in the center), and connect the participants (Facebook pages - small circles) to it. Since the first movement was in the State of S?o Paulo, and the second only in the city of S?o Paulo, there were some pages that were not used for it. Consequently, the number of pages that were used in the second movement is smaller than in the first. In addition, the organization (in relation to centralization of the movements) started changing in the second movement. That is, there were more pages connected to the main page on Facebook (triangles). The third movement was again related to a scandal in the State of S?o Paulo, and again, the number of pages on Facebook increased. Since the fourth movement (from Rio de Janeiro) started after the movements from S?o Paulo, they already started from a central page (instead of fragmented pages from different schools in the first movement), that served as a catalyst of information, and shared the activities with the pages of each school. We will be back to discuss Collaborative agency and reply Andy's questions. Warm regards, Fernando and Monica 2018-03-16 16:36 GMT-03:00 Peg Griffin : > I think Serena (whose graphic it is) now goes to a Society of Friends high > school. She has access to an enormously useful past for an activist to > grow in! > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2018 2:36 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools > > Whoa, that is a great graphic, Peg! > (like)!! :-) > mike > > On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 10:48 AM, Peg Griffin wrote: > > > Here's a relevant link: http://badassteachers.blogspot.com/ > > The Badass Teachers Association has existed for a few years now. This > > is a blog with several posts by teachers who experienced the March 14 > > Walkouts in the US. > > The blog entries reflect a few different situations and institutions > > that the Badass Teachers and their students experience (note that the > > last blog entry extends from the Walkouts to Teacher Strikes and more). > > > > While I learned a lot from the account of the four movements in Brazil > > and plan to learn more, here's a bit of a wondering that I have: > > When I work with/for our young activists in the US, as time goes by, I > > almost always find there's something said about the young activists > pasts. > > They have participated in movements where peers further along in some > > ways, and sometimes adults further along in some ways, collaborated. > > The young activists did what they could when they could and took in a > > "whole" event which in many ways they merely understood but marching > > and chanting and drawing were really effective so they were engaged! > > These young activists then externalized what they had taken in in all > > the ways they are doing now ... And the teachers and the rest of us got > further along, too! > > The day before yesterday I was witnessing a Senate hearing. When the > > hearing lies and evasions got terribly redundant, one of the Moms > > Demand Action members seated next to me looked down to a live stream > > on her phone of her daughter and classmates rallying outside the White > > House. Other members remember the daughter tagging along to lobbying > > and hearings and rallies and marches for years and the live stream and > > hugs went around a couple of rows of us. Eventually those White House > > protesting students marched from the White House to Capitol Hill and > > the mom soon left to meet her daughter's group outside. Inside, we > > were astonished at how much we were getting away with without the > > powers that be warning we would be tossed out. Maybe it's the times > > that are a changing or maybe it was just that our slogan t-shirts, > > finger snaps, humphs and yesses were mild in contrast to the Code Pink > > folks a few rows away -- great costumes and liberty crowns and great > > signs. All sorts of forbidden expressive delights in a hearing run by > > Grassley. > > > > By the way, Randi Weingarten who is president of the AFT (one of the > > two prominent and somewhat staid teachers unions in the US) shocked > > many in a recent e-mail when she easily referred to the Badass > > Teachers Association as one of her co-leaders in the coalition of > > forty organizations working on the April 20 National Actions in the > > continuing move against gun violence. > > (Adults are organizing the expansion of this anniversary of the > > Columbine > > Massacre,) > > > > Badass, hardcore, throwing shade -- those are some of my newly nuanced > > vocabulary items that young activists have led me to learn in the past > > year and a half. > > > > And I'm attaching an amazing piece of art work -- the artist is also > > quite the author of the written word. > > > > Peg > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Alfredo Jornet > > Gil > > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2018 7:35 PM > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian > > schools > > > > Just as a note to Harshad's and Michael's comments, and with the hope > > to, although through a little detour, somehow re-connect with the > > article (at least with the topic of social media, youth, and social > mobilisation): > > > > Today, in Reykjavik, we were in a meeting discussing opportunities and > > challenges that emerge when educators try to implement makerspaces > > activities with young children (5-6 years old), now that those have > > become fashionable and educators are trying to see what's good in > > there. In the meeting, there were experienced kindergarten teachers, > > science center organisers, artist researchers, "just plain postdocs" > > and the likes, all of whom have experience and passion about children > > and learning. We all agreed that most of the problems in attempting to > > implement makerspaces-like activities with younger children had to do > > with the failure of the adults to appreciate and let the children own > > and make the space theirs, which we find is the whole point of a maker > > space. We pointed out our failure to see and listen how the kids see > > and listen, so as to help them make. While many of us, adults, in > > those situations tend to attend to the verb "to make" in the > > transitive, as in "she makes some*thing*", thereby focusing on some > > end in mind that provides with a model against which to exert > > correction, we forget that, in most cases, the kids are in fact > > *making* (in the intransitive, without object), and that it is in the > > making that the possibility of the end object emerges. Instead of > > supporting them, appreciating the heart of what making means?in > > praxis?we tend to suffocate them, narrowing the space so that it no > > longer is a makerspace, or at least not one even close to their > > regular kindergarten spaces. > > > > Similarly, I am reluctant here to follow the lead that "mass youth is > > mislead," at least not before I try to carefully and respectfully > > attend to where they are at, what *their* world and space is, and what > > they say. For yes, the words "safety" or "Girls clothing in school is > > more regulated than GUNS in America" may not sound as erudite and > > profound as more complex statements about the relations between > > Philosophy, Science, Ethics, and Economy (all with capital letter). > > But the fact is that the magic, the future, humanity in fact, is in > > their saying. So I would listen, but not with the narrow backward view > > of us adults who already know, but from the prospective forward view > > of those who grow. And this is not to say that they are right or that > > they are wrong; that would be, I think, missing the point. > > Even though, I must say, the messages too, like "your prayers do > nothing," > > are quite convincing to me. > > > > Alfredo Jornet > > ________________________________ > > New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and > > intransitive dimensions" > > Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > > > > ________________________________________ > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > on behalf of Glassman, Michael > > > > Sent: 15 March 2018 15:36 > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian > > schools > > > > Hi Harshad, > > > > Sometimes it is the obvious not the obscure. If you want a hungry > > person to not be hungry anymore you give them food. A student of mind > > did a great study on homelessness. Basically the best thing you can > > do to avoid homelessness is you give people homes. And if you want > > people to stop shooting each other with guns you take away their guns. > > > > Don't forget also that the nuclear family is something we pretty much > > made up over the last few centuries. > > > > Michael > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Harshad Dave > > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2018 8:54 AM > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian > > schools > > > > 15 March 2018. > > > > Dear friends, > > > > I write here with reference to email message from Michael (Wed, Mar > > 14, > > 2018 at 9:25 PM). As far as protest for gun control and debate on it > > is concerned, I put some views here. > > > > We all are aware that this is not the first event of open fire on > > school students as well as mass killing with gun fire on public place > > (recall Las Vegas shooting and other). Right from beginning, when > > Columbus discovered the New World, the road of establishing civilized > > society on continent America was not a comfortable one. The people > > passed through challenges, hardship and peril in day to day life > > during the travel on the road. This journey moulded a responsible and > > wisdom full culture in the blood of people living there. They fought > > for independence and emerged with a unity named USA, they sustained > > with and sacrificed in civil war, they passed through the severe > > recession of 1930 after World War I, and they fought thousands of > > kilometres away from native place along with allied nations in World > > War II. > > These all are the untold, unwritten qualification of the people of the > > time that decorated with a right of freedom to keep weapons with them. > > We never heard of such insane events of mass killing in this society > > in the history of this people though freedom to keep gun/weapon was and > has been a right. > > > > [NB: Please note, I am neither in favour nor in opposition to the > protest. > > I try to just bring one point of consideration to the reader.] > > > > After August 1945, USA emerged with some exceptional lead over other > > nations of the world. If we consider a period of 25 years as > > generation change, the third and fourth generation constitutes present > > youth. Those who were born in and after August 1945 could study the > > history of the above path that was traveled by their ancestors. There > > is much difference between reading a history and making living in the > > same history. > > > > Moreover, I recall the words of President Roosevelt, ?*The only limit > > to our realization of tomorrow will be our doubts of today.*? It > > brought a new style and different culture with comfortable life and > > inexperienced thinking and thoughts in new generations. The emerging > > social constitution of society in USA and its systems as well as > > institutions grew with a rapid progress and incessant changes. > > Majority people believe that ?*dollars?* is the ultimate key towards > > happiness and peace. Institutions and system of society worked as if > > ?*science and technology?* has the entire competency to settle any > > social problem. > > > > Wise people.... perhaps... failed to understand that our society is > > stable and balance on four pillars.... they (pillars) are Philosophy, > > Ethics and Religion, Science and Technology and Economics. Uneven > > growth in one or more pillars will destabilize the society. Now a day, > > we are searching all the answers of social issues from *science and > > technology*. We try to sort out every problem through *dollars* only, > > and we do not know if it is sorted out or postponed. Neither we > > honestly give adequate stress on ethical value nor do we have uniform > > philosophy on which our society might rest. Family system is all most > > paralyzed. Youth are encouraged or instigated to be independent and > > self sufficient as soon as they reach at a prescribed age. We treat > > them as freedom to youth. Our youth mass is not aware of all this fact > > and every street and corners are equipped with a net-work to > > misleading the youth. > > > > Now, this mass of the youth protests with an esteemed trust that the > > subject gun law will bring a safety. They never know, ?*Safety never > > come from the enacted laws, it does come from the healthy and balanced > > social system.*? > > Presently, it seems to me that protesters are with a trust to bring > > safety by introducing the subject gun law, but the events of shootings > > shout for the grass root changes in social system with balance uniform > > growth in the above said four pillars. It demands for reintroducing an > > affectionate family system again and fundamental education that > > dollars cannot always bring happiness and peace but where the real > > happiness and peace lie. > > > > Harshad Dave > > > > Email: hhdave15@gmail.com > > On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 9:25 PM, Glassman, Michael > > > > wrote: > > > > > Fernando and Monica, > > > > > > This is what is happening is the United States today, > > > > > > https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/03/students- > > > from-thousands-of-schools-stage-a-walkout-to-protest- > > > gun-violence-and-honor-parkland-victims.html > > > > > > It is nothing less than extraordinary. Many are trying to limit this > > > to gun violence but I wonder, based on your article, if it will soon > > > transform into another movement. But I think it goes to show how the > > > work you have done, if only a beginning, is really important. I feel > > > like we have missed this in U.S. academic circles. There is what is > > > basically an idiotic article on fake news in the most recent > > > Science, supposed to be our flagship. > > > > > > I feel like we have to hit the re-set button on understanding what > > > is going on and the role that what you call human-technology > > > interaction is playing. > > > > > > I have a question for some activity theorists if they are interested > > > in responding. In some ways what is going on does mirror an activity > > > model, the multi-level reciprocal transformation (unless I am > > > misunderstanding something). But as I said in an earlier message > > > there is nobody coming in doing an intervention, the transformation > > > itself is organic, more Dewey oriented I would say (I think maybe > > > Friere also). Is there room for this in activity theory? > > > > > > Michael > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Fernando Cunha > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 3:03 PM > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity ; mike > > > cole > > > Cc: Lemos, Monica > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian > > > schools > > > > > > Dear all, > > > I really appreciate the discussion so far, and I liked the way some > > > of you used some metaphors. It was far from our intention to > > > reinvent the wheel or to use flint stones to light fire. What I > > > think it is important is that there is no "if" in human history, and > > > we are where we are because we transform the places we live, as well > > > as the tools we use. We can for sure ride horses in the cities, but > > > the horses would sweat so much (considering the asphalt roads), that > > > in a matter of > > hours they would die. > > > > > > Since life is forward, we tried to show in our article a small part > > > of what the movements organized by the students were.It is important > > > to highlight, that despite people that were not in favor of protests > > > (including some students!), it was the first time in Brazilian > > > history that students (who were not supposed to interfere) > > > interfered in a political decision. And they did so not only by > > > using Facebook. As we mention in our paper, Facebook is one aspect > > > of the protests, and we considered it as a mediational communicative > > > tool. As I mentioned before in this answer, we as human beings use > > > tools that are available, reshape them, and sometimes use them for a > > > purpose that is > > completely different from the original idea. > > > I myself am a secondary education teacher, and I am also a > > > researcher because I am a secondary education teacher. We may have > > > different points of view when you research something as an outsider, > > > and when you participate (not as an ethnographer), but as a subject > > > of the group. In my humble opinion, we are still trying to > > > conceptualize (and > > > stabilize) things that move faster than we can handle as scientists, > > > or to compare contexts that cannot be compared. > > > > > > I am looking forward to your reactions. > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > __________________________Fernando R. Cunha J?nior, PhD. > > > > > > http://fernandorcjr.wordpress.com > > > > > > > > > Em segunda-feira, 12 de mar?o de 2018 21:05:34 BRT, mike cole < > > > mcole@ucsd.edu> escreveu: > > > > > > Alfredo et al > > > > > > I read this message before reading the prior one. You are making the > > > point I was trying to make regarding discussion of the paper. > > > In our everyday lives we are experiencing a change in the wind (to > > > use a metaphor that Dylan made famous at another such time). > > > HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS ARE DISRUPTING THINGS AS USUAL for the first > > > time in my life. Call it 65 years. > > > > > > And we are academics and some of us are are paid to theorize such > > matters. > > > To theorize the social organization of society was Hugh's > > > description of the social sciences. In most American Universities, > > > Psychology (cap > > > P) is located in the social sciences. > > > Do we approach the problem from "below" as psychologists? Do we > > > approach it from "above" as sociologists and political scientists? > > > Can you link the Leontiev who writes about the nature of human > > > consciousness, psychologically speaking and conducts experiments in > > > the laboratory that look for all the world like what goes on in my > > > psychology department, AND as someone who can help understand the > > > growth of social movements? This may also be a way to address and > > > understanding of the overlap and variability in the ideas of > > > Vygotsky and > > Friere. > > > > > > Monica and Fernando must be reeling from all the complicated English > > > we are spewing. I look forward to the discussion. > > > > > > Still worrying about Figure 3! I know I need to be able to interpret > > > it but I am doing a lousy job. > > > > > > mike > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 5:34 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Thanks for finding and sharing the link, Andy, and thanks Michael > > > > and Mike for bringing the absolutely relevant connection to > Parklands. > > > > > > > > There was not so long ago a discussion here as well as in a couple > > > > of articles in MCA about how crises leading to development most > > > > often result from quantitative increments that lead to qualitative > > > > leaps such that new forms of organization emerge from previous ones. > > > > So, David, I don't see why increments in the pace of circulation > > > > (e.g., of > > > > information) would not be expected to bring with them changes in > > > > the organisation of the whole economy system. I would not say that > > > > social media is just bringing a lot more of the same, just as I > > > > would not a priori reject the possibility that bringing a lot more > > > > of the same might not end up bringing new qualitative forms of > > > > communicating. The observation that "like" is intransitive in > > > > Facebook is interesting; but to me it needs to be put in its > > > > larger context of use. And so, are we analysing Facebook as a > > > > grammar closed up in itself, or as one more > > > chain in a larger grammar of possible cooperation? > > > > > > > > I am myself concerned that Social Media like Facebook may be > > > > amplifying dichotomical thinking beyond the innocuous and often > > > > way-to-verbose essays we academics enjoy entertaining with much > > > > more complex verbal forms than Facebook's intransitive "likes", > > > > only that the confrontations now seem to be moving to family's > > > > dinner tables, quarrels among protesters in public squares, or > > > > previously unheard of incarcerations for publishing tweets and rap > > > > songs that critique the crown in a supposedly modern democracy like > Spain (e.g.: > > > > http://cadenaser.com/ser/2018/02/20/tribunales/1519135083_ > > > > 106543.html). But the article here discussed also shows that there > > > > are forms of organization that these technologies are affording > > > > that may bring more positive changes, like the case again in Spain > > > > of March 8th women's strike, the extent of which no politician or > > > > journalist had anticipated and which led the government to quickly > > > > adopt a much more equity-friendly discourse than even the evening > > > > before (https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=4_11iIELdfc). So, no, > > > > probably that one strike, or that one social media that may have > > > > made it possible, won't change the system. But they seem to > > > > incrementally add to > > > something, don't they? > > > > > > > > Alfredo Jornet > > > > ________________________________ > > > > New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and > > > > intransitive dimensions" > > > > Free print available: > > > > https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > > > > > > > > ________________________________________ > > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > on behalf of Andy Blunden > > > > > > > > Sent: 12 March 2018 06:39 > > > > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in > > > > Brazilian schools > > > > > > > > That headline does not exist, but is it this: > > > > > > > > https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/07/us/parkland-students-social-med > > > > ia > > > > .h > > > > tml > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > Andy Blunden > > > > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > > > > On 12/03/2018 4:02 PM, mike cole wrote: > > > > > Michael - I have been trying to find a digital copy of a story > > > > > in today's NY Times titled "the social media warriors of parkland." > > > > > For some reason > > > > it > > > > > is not visible on the digital version.... yet. Maybe someone out > > > > >there in xmca-land can find it for us? I will check again in > > > > >the morning to see if it appears. > > > > > It seems especially relevant to Monica and Fernando's > > > > >article, and > > > > to > > > > > David's comment that " it is very hard for me to pinpoint any > > > > > actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was > > > > > made > > > > possible by > > > > > Facebook." The voices and forms of speaking used by the > > > > > students was > > > > not, > > > > > so far as I could tell, the source of data. There are no > > > > > quotations of > > > > any > > > > > students speaking differently. I assumed that this article was > > > > > about collective action. > > > > > Monica and Fernando - I confess I had difficulty following parts > > > > > of the article, perhaps because I am a very seldom user of > > > > > Facebook. In particular, I had difficulty understanding Figure 3. > > > > > Were the people who started M1 also those who started M2-M3? ( " > > > > > Once students achieved the object of the activity?in the first > > > > > case, to avoid the closure of the schools?they focused the > > > > > protests on another > > > object"). > > > > > > > > > > Did the M4 people get the idea from M1 through a FB connection > > > > > form > > M1? > > > > Did > > > > > you get any sense of what distinguished pages that got a few > > > > > hundred > > > > versus > > > > > 10,000 reactions? > > > > > > > > > > Harshad - Did you think the article failed to consider social > issues? > > > > There > > > > > is no information about you on the xmca membership page, so it > > > > > is difficult to know from what part of the world you are writing. > > > > > Unless I miss my guess, some people will wonder at your use of > > > > > the word "man" where the local practice might put "humankind" or > > > > > some other gender inclusive term. > > > > > > > > > > David - Daylight saving time tonight so I find myself "working > > > > > late." It got me to wondering how many people live in Seoul. A > > > > > lot, > > > it turns out. > > > > > About 9-10 million. That got me to wondering about how much > > > > > faster all those people would be getting around on horses with > > > > > all the horse plops > > > > to > > > > > clamber over. And all that hay to haul into town for the morning > > > > > rush hour. :-) > > > > > > > > > > mike > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Glassman, Michael > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> Hi David, > > > > >> > > > > >> I'm sure those meddling kids won't come back on your lawn any > > > > >> time > > > soon. > > > > >> > > > > >> But really, the article did not say Facebook is a new type of > > > > technology. > > > > >> I believe they said that it's a form of human-technology > > > > >> interaction and suggested perhaps social media was a new type > > > > >> of human-technology interaction. I don't agree with this > phrasing. > > > > >> I tend to think of > > > > Facebook > > > > >> more as an application of Internet technology - but either way > > > > >> Facebook > > > > is > > > > >> just a form or an application. Is the internetworking of > > > > >> computer, radio and satellite communication an enormous step > > > > >> forward in how humans communicate. I think so - it's really > > > > >> extraordinary on a number of > > > > levels > > > > >> but that's really not the conversation for this article. > > > > >> > > > > >> I do think the authors have done an analysis that is > > > > >> interesting and possibly important, especially when one > > > > >> considers what is currently > > > > going > > > > >> on down in Parkland (some might be happy to know that, at least > > > > >> from > > > > what I > > > > >> have read, Facebook isn't dominant or even that important for > > > > >> these students. Adults have been using it more for larger > > > > >> organizational > > > > events > > > > >> like the March 14 walkout and the March 24 march). I have read > > > > >> some articles on organizing on online forums (and actually > > > > >> wrote a not very > > > > good > > > > >> one a few years back). Most of them are communications based an > > > > >> don't > > > > have > > > > >> strong theoretical underpinning which is why I think this > > > > >> article might > > > > be > > > > >> an important step forward. > > > > >> > > > > >> I think the idea of using third generation activity theory > > > > >> might be a > > > > good > > > > >> idea for this type of analysis. I myself have seen ties between > > > > >> the trialogical approach being developed by Hakkareinan and > > > > >> Paavola and > > > > what is > > > > >> going on down in Parkland. The students are creating their own > > > > >> projects > > > > and > > > > >> then getting the larger community to buy in to and support what > > > > >> they are doing which is in turn changing the quality of their > > > > >> activities. I have > > > > my > > > > >> own ideas on why this is suddenly happening and direct > > > > >> communication technologies like Twitter and texting (which seem > > > > >> primary vehicles) are only part of it. > > > > >> > > > > >> Anyway, this particular article I think is really timely and > > > > >> should give us a lot to think about. > > > > >> > > > > >> Michael > > > > >> > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > > > >> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg > > > > >> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2018 6:03 PM > > > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in > > > > >> Brazilian > > > > schools > > > > >> > > > > >> So in the fifteenth century, Gutenberg exapted extant > > > > >> technology already widely available in China and published a > > > > >> single text using moveable > > > > type > > > > >> which started a profound intellectual, cultural, and social > > > > >> revolution whose effects we still feel today: the rise of > > > > >> Protestantism, the Counter-Reformation in, among other places, > > > > >> Brazil, the Wars of > > > > Religion in > > > > >> France, the vicissitudes of a multii-confessional (political) > > > > >> State and ultimately those of a multi-confessional > > > > >> (psychological) state, In the twentieth century, Ford similarly > > > > >> exapted extant technology, this time nearly two millenia later > > > > >> than China, and mass-produced automobiles > > > > using > > > > >> Taylorism, forcing everybody to buy an identical product with > > > > >> interchangeable parts made by factories with interchangeable > > workers. > > > > >> The automobile "revolution" did not even give us new roads, and > > > > >> in Seoul today traffic moves notably slower than it would on > > > > >> horseback. Clearly, there are some forms of technology that are > > > > >> actually semiogenic--and > > > > others > > > > >> which merely circulate capital at a faster rate and actually > > > > >> slow the movement of people and new ideas. > > > > >> > > > > >> So my question is very simple. How do we know that "Facebook" > > > > >> (which as the name implies was originally designed to help > > > > >> Harvard freshmen decide which classmates were sufficiently hot > > > > >> to > > > > >> "like") is really one of the former technologies?.There are > > > > >> very clear signs , beyond the obvious > > > > ones > > > > >> surrounding the American origins, that it belongs to the latter > > > > category, > > > > >> and not a few of them appear in this very article. First of > > > > >> all, the authors are honest enough to associate Facebook with > > > > >> reactionary, xenophobic, populist movements like the clowns who > > > > >> run > > > the "Five Stars" > > > > >> movement in Italy. Second, on the very first page, the authors > > > > >> try but > > > > do > > > > >> not really seem to be able to distinguish between the "post > > > > >> first and organize later" technologies of Occupy Wall Street > > > > >> and the use of social media by the four movements in the > > > > >> article (including one actually > > > > called > > > > >> "Occupy Everything"). And thirdly, it is very hard for me to > > > > >> pinpoint > > > > any > > > > >> actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was > > > > >> made > > > > possible > > > > >> by Facebook. If anything, Facebook seems to narrow semiogenic > > > > >> power to a single consumer/computer menu. Ford said, you can > > > > >> get a Model A in any color you like so long as it's black. > > > > >> Facebook tells us the same thing, > > > > but > > > > >> makes the verb "like" intransitive. > > > > >> > > > > >> David Kellogg > > > > >> Sangmyung University > > > > >> > > > > >> Recent Article in *Early Years* > > > > >> > > > > >> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s > > > > >> crises, and the child?s first interrogatives > > > > >> > > > >> doi/full/10.1080/09575146.2018.1431874> > > > > >> > > > > >> Free e-print available at: > > > > >> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 7:30 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > > > > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > > > > >> wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >>> Dear xmca'ers, > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> it is (bit over) due time for introducing the article for > > > > >>> discussion from MCA's 2018 Issue 1, before Issue 2 comes upon > > > > >>> us > > > soon. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> The selected article, by Monica Ferreira Lemos and Fernando > > > > >>> Rezende da Cunha J?nior, is about two topics that were > > > > >>> thematised in the last ISCAR congress and that ought to be of > > > > >>> much relevance to current and future CHAT-related research: > > > > >>> Social media and social movements. In particular, the article > > > > >>> examines how students use social media for the organization > > > > >>> and development of 4 social > > > movements in Brazil. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> The article is attached and is Free access during the > > > > >>> discussion > > > > period. > > > > >>> It can be accessed free in the following link: > > > > >>> > > > > >>> https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2017.137 > > > > >>> 98 > > > > >>> 23 > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> The authors have kindly agreed to participate in the > > > > >>> discussion and they will be introducing themselves soon. I > > > > >>> hope you will find the article interesting and please don't > > > > >>> be shy to share anything you might have learned reading it, > > > > >>> anything you might wonder about it or that you would like see > > > > >>> discussed. Having authors engage in dialogue is a great > > > > >>> opportunity that this community offers and that makes sense > > > > >>> the most when many of you > > > participate. Good reading! > > > > >>> > > > > >>> ? > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Alfredo Jornet > > > > >>> > > > > >>> New article in *Design Studies* "Imagning Design: Transitive > > > > >>> and intransitive dimensions" > > > > >>> Free print available: > > > > >>> https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > > > > >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Monica F. Lemos - PhD Student Faculty of Educational Sciences Center for Research on Activity, Development and Learning http://www.helsinki.fi/cradle/doctoral_students_2012.htm P.O. Box 9, FIN-00014 University of Helsinki- Finland +55 11 98162-9482 (whatsapp) Skype: monicaflemos From mcole@ucsd.edu Tue Mar 20 09:42:02 2018 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2018 09:42:02 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] race/class and development Message-ID: This article from the NY Times seems important and the graphic is unusually effective. Not the topic of the day on xmca but a topic for all seasons. mike https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/19/upshot/race-class-white-and-black-men.html From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Tue Mar 20 09:52:45 2018 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2018 16:52:45 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: race/class and development In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1521564765141.95424@iped.uio.no> Wow, that visualisation (what it tells and how it tells it) is one of the most striking I've ever seen, including the fact that it keeps going and going... Alfredo Jornet ________________________________ New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and intransitive dimensions" Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of mike cole Sent: 20 March 2018 17:42 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] race/class and development This article from the NY Times seems important and the graphic is unusually effective. Not the topic of the day on xmca but a topic for all seasons. mike https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/19/upshot/race-class-white-and-black-men.html From jrtudge@uncg.edu Tue Mar 20 11:33:12 2018 From: jrtudge@uncg.edu (Jonathan Tudge) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2018 14:33:12 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: race/class and development In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks, Mike. This is indeed remarkably effective and, although not exactly unexpected, needs to be widely shared. I spoke about it in my undergrad lifespan class today. Cheers, Jon ~~~~~~~~~~~ Jonathan Tudge Professor Office: 155 Stone Our work on gratitude: http://morethanthanks.wp.uncg.edu/ A new book just published: Tudge, J. & Freitas, L. (Eds.) Developing gratitude in children and adolescents , Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press My web site:http://www.uncg.edu/hdf/faculty/tudge Mailing address: 248 Stone Building Department of Human Development and Family Studies PO Box 26170 The University of North Carolina at Greensboro Greensboro, NC 27402-6170 USA phone (336) 223-6181 fax (336) 334-5076 On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 12:42 PM, mike cole wrote: > This article from the NY Times seems important and the graphic is unusually > effective. Not the topic of the day on > xmca but a topic for all seasons. > mike > > https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/19/upshot/ > race-class-white-and-black-men.html > From mpacker@cantab.net Tue Mar 20 17:07:46 2018 From: mpacker@cantab.net (Martin Packer) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2018 19:07:46 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: David, they wouldn't have known they were leaving their home continent, would they? Some of them were just lucky enough to wander in the direction of a land bridge, instead of into the ocean. Like any species that spreads into a new geographical location, no conscious decision required. Martin, who wandered into South America > On Mar 19, 2018, at 7:50 AM, David Kellogg wrote: > > Somewhere in the discussion of Monica and Fernando's article, Fernando made > the remark that history does not know "ifs". Similarly, Monica implied at > one point that large technological changes must be taken as given; they are > not something over which humans have control. But even if we accept > the "Out of Africa" story which this article undermines, we are left with > the apparently conscious decision of early hominids to leave the home > continent, something none of the other great apes ever determined upon. > Vygotsky remarked that rudiments of all four forms of higher > behavior--instinct, enculturation, creativity, and free will that is none > of these--appear even in infancy. So it appears that free will was always > part of anthropogenesis, and consequently that history--including present > history--knows nothing but ifs. We just don't see the others because we are > sitting in one of them. > > David Kellogg > Sangmyung University > > Recent Article in *Early Years* > > The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and the > child?s first interrogatives > > > Free e-print available at: > https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full > > > On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 7:33 AM, mike cole wrote: > >> This synoptic story of the current state of research on human origins seems >> relevant to the cultural-historical folks around. >> mike >> >> https://www.sapiens.org/evolution/human-evolution- >> australia-asia/?utm_source=SAPIENS.org+Subscribers&utm_ >> campaign=1b31c25316-Email+Blast+12.22.2017&utm_medium= >> email&utm_term=0_18b7e41cd8-1b31c25316-199570669 >> From dkellogg60@gmail.com Tue Mar 20 19:52:44 2018 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2018 11:52:44 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Andy has a knack for winkling brilliant insights out of early Vygotsky: he remarks somewhere that "Ape, Primitive, Child: Studies in the History of Behavior," a book which I really didn't care much for, taught him that whenever we decide on some essential distinction between human and non-human behavior, we necessarily find rudiments of it in non-human behavior. To which I would only add that the circumstance that the rudiments of human behavior are linked to non-human behavior doesn't make them indistinguishable. On the contrary, it is really only because human behaviors are distinct that we can speak of them being linked (we don't talk of air-breathing in humans as being linked to air-breathing in apes, because the process is really one and the same; we do speak of language in humans as being linked to ape vocalizations precisely because they are distinct processes). If this is true of anthropogenetic phenomena like free will, language and literacy, it's also true of their symptomatic epiphenomena, such as migration, culture, and literature. I don't agree with Andy that the lowering of the vocal tract was phenomenal to language; it was only an epiphenomenal circumstance which made the majority of humans choose the vocal channel for language while an important minority choose the visual channel, to which the majority again reverted once alphabets and literacy were invented (again, an exercise of some rudimentary form of free will). Compare migration along a seacoast with migration into a mountainous region. One requires no major change in productive relations, while the other probably does. Similar with migration along an East-West axis. This requires relatively little free will, as the climate does not change and many of the plants and animals which provide food are probably the same. In contrast, migration along a North-South axis, which involves climate change and corresponding adaptations, would require relatively more communal discussion, the process Andy calls collaborative decision making. I think that wandering out of Africa involved, on the one hand, migration along the Nile and coastlines and, on the other, migration out of a mountainous region (the Rift Valley is pretty mountainous). But it also involved migration along a North-South axis and not an East-West one. Of course, staying put in Africa probably also involved collaborative decision making over millenia, but we don't have any record of the decision as we do with leaving the home continent David Kellogg Sangmyung University Recent Article in *Early Years* The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and the child?s first interrogatives Free e-print available at: https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 9:07 AM, Martin Packer wrote: > David, they wouldn't have known they were leaving their home continent, > would they? Some of them were just lucky enough to wander in the direction > of a land bridge, instead of into the ocean. Like any species that spreads > into a new geographical location, no conscious decision required. > > Martin, who wandered into South America > > > > > > On Mar 19, 2018, at 7:50 AM, David Kellogg wrote: > > > > Somewhere in the discussion of Monica and Fernando's article, Fernando > made > > the remark that history does not know "ifs". Similarly, Monica implied at > > one point that large technological changes must be taken as given; they > are > > not something over which humans have control. But even if we accept > > the "Out of Africa" story which this article undermines, we are left with > > the apparently conscious decision of early hominids to leave the home > > continent, something none of the other great apes ever determined upon. > > Vygotsky remarked that rudiments of all four forms of higher > > behavior--instinct, enculturation, creativity, and free will that is none > > of these--appear even in infancy. So it appears that free will was always > > part of anthropogenesis, and consequently that history--including present > > history--knows nothing but ifs. We just don't see the others because we > are > > sitting in one of them. > > > > David Kellogg > > Sangmyung University > > > > Recent Article in *Early Years* > > > > The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and the > > child?s first interrogatives > > > > > > Free e-print available at: > > https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 7:33 AM, mike cole wrote: > > > >> This synoptic story of the current state of research on human origins > seems > >> relevant to the cultural-historical folks around. > >> mike > >> > >> https://www.sapiens.org/evolution/human-evolution- > >> australia-asia/?utm_source=SAPIENS.org+Subscribers&utm_ > >> campaign=1b31c25316-Email+Blast+12.22.2017&utm_medium= > >> email&utm_term=0_18b7e41cd8-1b31c25316-199570669 > >> > > From helenaworthen@gmail.com Tue Mar 20 21:11:45 2018 From: helenaworthen@gmail.com (Helena Worthen) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2018 09:56:45 +0545 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <030AF564-E49F-4D62-A7E8-1929B7295C28@gmail.com> David, what is the important minority that you?re referring to: "... the lowering of the vocal tract was phenomenal to language; it was only an epiphenomenal circumstance which made the majority of humans choose the vocal channel for language while an important minority choose the visual channel? ? ? And how can we see what can be seen in the visual channel? Helena Worthen helenaworthen@gmail.com Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 Blog US/ Viet Nam: helenaworthen.wordpress.com skype: helena.worthen1 > On Mar 21, 2018, at 8:37 AM, David Kellogg wrote: > > Andy has a knack for winkling brilliant insights out of early Vygotsky: he > remarks somewhere that "Ape, Primitive, Child: Studies in the History of > Behavior," a book which I really didn't care much for, taught him that > whenever we decide on some essential distinction between human and > non-human behavior, we necessarily find rudiments of it in non-human > behavior. To which I would only add that the circumstance that the > rudiments of human behavior are linked to non-human behavior doesn't make > them indistinguishable. On the contrary, it is really only because human > behaviors are distinct that we can speak of them being linked (we don't > talk of air-breathing in humans as being linked to air-breathing in apes, > because the process is really one and the same; we do speak of language in > humans as being linked to ape vocalizations precisely because they are > distinct processes). If this is true of anthropogenetic phenomena like free > will, language and literacy, it's also true of their symptomatic > epiphenomena, such as migration, culture, and literature. I don't agree > with Andy that the lowering of the vocal tract was phenomenal to language; > it was only an epiphenomenal circumstance which made the majority of humans > choose the vocal channel for language while an important minority choose > the visual channel, to which the majority again reverted once alphabets and > literacy were invented (again, an exercise of some rudimentary form of free > will). > > Compare migration along a seacoast with migration into a mountainous > region. One requires no major change in productive relations, while the > other probably does. Similar with migration along an East-West axis. This > requires relatively little free will, as the climate does not change and > many of the plants and animals which provide food are probably the same. In > contrast, migration along a North-South axis, which involves climate change > and corresponding adaptations, would require relatively more communal > discussion, the process Andy calls collaborative decision making. I think > that wandering out of Africa involved, on the one hand, migration along the > Nile and coastlines and, on the other, migration out of a mountainous > region (the Rift Valley is pretty mountainous). But it also involved > migration along a North-South axis and not an East-West one. Of course, > staying put in Africa probably also involved collaborative decision making > over millenia, but we don't have any record of the decision as we do with > leaving the home continent > > David Kellogg > Sangmyung University > > Recent Article in *Early Years* > > The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and the > child?s first interrogatives > > > Free e-print available at: > https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full > > > On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 9:07 AM, Martin Packer wrote: > >> David, they wouldn't have known they were leaving their home continent, >> would they? Some of them were just lucky enough to wander in the direction >> of a land bridge, instead of into the ocean. Like any species that spreads >> into a new geographical location, no conscious decision required. >> >> Martin, who wandered into South America >> >> >> >> >>> On Mar 19, 2018, at 7:50 AM, David Kellogg wrote: >>> >>> Somewhere in the discussion of Monica and Fernando's article, Fernando >> made >>> the remark that history does not know "ifs". Similarly, Monica implied at >>> one point that large technological changes must be taken as given; they >> are >>> not something over which humans have control. But even if we accept >>> the "Out of Africa" story which this article undermines, we are left with >>> the apparently conscious decision of early hominids to leave the home >>> continent, something none of the other great apes ever determined upon. >>> Vygotsky remarked that rudiments of all four forms of higher >>> behavior--instinct, enculturation, creativity, and free will that is none >>> of these--appear even in infancy. So it appears that free will was always >>> part of anthropogenesis, and consequently that history--including present >>> history--knows nothing but ifs. We just don't see the others because we >> are >>> sitting in one of them. >>> >>> David Kellogg >>> Sangmyung University >>> >>> Recent Article in *Early Years* >>> >>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and the >>> child?s first interrogatives >>> >>> >>> Free e-print available at: >>> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 7:33 AM, mike cole wrote: >>> >>>> This synoptic story of the current state of research on human origins >> seems >>>> relevant to the cultural-historical folks around. >>>> mike >>>> >>>> https://www.sapiens.org/evolution/human-evolution- >>>> australia-asia/?utm_source=SAPIENS.org+Subscribers&utm_ >>>> campaign=1b31c25316-Email+Blast+12.22.2017&utm_medium= >>>> email&utm_term=0_18b7e41cd8-1b31c25316-199570669 >>>> >> >> From dkellogg60@gmail.com Tue Mar 20 22:24:59 2018 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2018 14:24:59 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical In-Reply-To: <030AF564-E49F-4D62-A7E8-1929B7295C28@gmail.com> References: <030AF564-E49F-4D62-A7E8-1929B7295C28@gmail.com> Message-ID: I meant deaf people. There's a strong argument being made by deaf linguists--which I agree with--that holds that spoken languages are an offshoot of sign rather than the other way around. This sheds some light on Andy's problem: people developed spoken languages when they found they had other things to do with their hands, like hold tools. But I also think that pre-linguistic children are an important minority that prefers the visual channel, at least for taking in information, just as we adults who get most of our information through reading do. There are some scripts that are more visual and others that are more auditory--and within the same script we find elements that are more visual (Chinese radicals) and others that are more auditory (the phonetic components of Chinese characters). Even in English there are some elements that are visually salient but not auditorily salient (e.g. punctuation, variations in handwriting styles, fonts, etc.) and other elements that are more auditory (the International Phonetic Alphabet which is really English based and which has sought, for over a century, a perfect match between phonemes and graphemes). Phonics is based on the idea that English has evolved towards a one phoneme-one grapheme match; in fact, it has evolved away from it. David Kellogg Sangmyung University Recent Article in *Early Years* The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and the child?s first interrogatives Free e-print available at: https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 1:11 PM, Helena Worthen wrote: > David, what is the important minority that you?re referring to: > > "... the lowering of the vocal tract was phenomenal to language; > it was only an epiphenomenal circumstance which made the majority of humans > choose the vocal channel for language while an important minority choose > the visual channel? ? ? > > And how can we see what can be seen in the visual channel? > > Helena Worthen > helenaworthen@gmail.com > Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 > Blog US/ Viet Nam: > helenaworthen.wordpress.com > skype: helena.worthen1 > > > > > > > > > On Mar 21, 2018, at 8:37 AM, David Kellogg wrote: > > > > Andy has a knack for winkling brilliant insights out of early Vygotsky: > he > > remarks somewhere that "Ape, Primitive, Child: Studies in the History of > > Behavior," a book which I really didn't care much for, taught him that > > whenever we decide on some essential distinction between human and > > non-human behavior, we necessarily find rudiments of it in non-human > > behavior. To which I would only add that the circumstance that the > > rudiments of human behavior are linked to non-human behavior doesn't > make > > them indistinguishable. On the contrary, it is really only because human > > behaviors are distinct that we can speak of them being linked (we don't > > talk of air-breathing in humans as being linked to air-breathing in apes, > > because the process is really one and the same; we do speak of language > in > > humans as being linked to ape vocalizations precisely because they are > > distinct processes). If this is true of anthropogenetic phenomena like > free > > will, language and literacy, it's also true of their symptomatic > > epiphenomena, such as migration, culture, and literature. I don't agree > > with Andy that the lowering of the vocal tract was phenomenal to > language; > > it was only an epiphenomenal circumstance which made the majority of > humans > > choose the vocal channel for language while an important minority choose > > the visual channel, to which the majority again reverted once alphabets > and > > literacy were invented (again, an exercise of some rudimentary form of > free > > will). > > > > Compare migration along a seacoast with migration into a mountainous > > region. One requires no major change in productive relations, while the > > other probably does. Similar with migration along an East-West axis. This > > requires relatively little free will, as the climate does not change and > > many of the plants and animals which provide food are probably the same. > In > > contrast, migration along a North-South axis, which involves climate > change > > and corresponding adaptations, would require relatively more communal > > discussion, the process Andy calls collaborative decision making. I think > > that wandering out of Africa involved, on the one hand, migration along > the > > Nile and coastlines and, on the other, migration out of a mountainous > > region (the Rift Valley is pretty mountainous). But it also involved > > migration along a North-South axis and not an East-West one. Of course, > > staying put in Africa probably also involved collaborative decision > making > > over millenia, but we don't have any record of the decision as we do with > > leaving the home continent > > > > David Kellogg > > Sangmyung University > > > > Recent Article in *Early Years* > > > > The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and the > > child?s first interrogatives > > > > > > Free e-print available at: > > https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 9:07 AM, Martin Packer > wrote: > > > >> David, they wouldn't have known they were leaving their home continent, > >> would they? Some of them were just lucky enough to wander in the > direction > >> of a land bridge, instead of into the ocean. Like any species that > spreads > >> into a new geographical location, no conscious decision required. > >> > >> Martin, who wandered into South America > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>> On Mar 19, 2018, at 7:50 AM, David Kellogg > wrote: > >>> > >>> Somewhere in the discussion of Monica and Fernando's article, Fernando > >> made > >>> the remark that history does not know "ifs". Similarly, Monica implied > at > >>> one point that large technological changes must be taken as given; they > >> are > >>> not something over which humans have control. But even if we accept > >>> the "Out of Africa" story which this article undermines, we are left > with > >>> the apparently conscious decision of early hominids to leave the home > >>> continent, something none of the other great apes ever determined upon. > >>> Vygotsky remarked that rudiments of all four forms of higher > >>> behavior--instinct, enculturation, creativity, and free will that is > none > >>> of these--appear even in infancy. So it appears that free will was > always > >>> part of anthropogenesis, and consequently that history--including > present > >>> history--knows nothing but ifs. We just don't see the others because we > >> are > >>> sitting in one of them. > >>> > >>> David Kellogg > >>> Sangmyung University > >>> > >>> Recent Article in *Early Years* > >>> > >>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and > the > >>> child?s first interrogatives > >>> > >>> > >>> Free e-print available at: > >>> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full > >>> > >>> > >>> On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 7:33 AM, mike cole wrote: > >>> > >>>> This synoptic story of the current state of research on human origins > >> seems > >>>> relevant to the cultural-historical folks around. > >>>> mike > >>>> > >>>> https://www.sapiens.org/evolution/human-evolution- > >>>> australia-asia/?utm_source=SAPIENS.org+Subscribers&utm_ > >>>> campaign=1b31c25316-Email+Blast+12.22.2017&utm_medium= > >>>> email&utm_term=0_18b7e41cd8-1b31c25316-199570669 > >>>> > >> > >> > > > From andyb@marxists.org Tue Mar 20 22:38:47 2018 From: andyb@marxists.org (Andy Blunden) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2018 16:38:47 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical In-Reply-To: References: <030AF564-E49F-4D62-A7E8-1929B7295C28@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4bf362ed-1c89-ca1b-3646-e2da9a109fef@marxists.org> I think that the thesis that *mime* (to generalise beyond signing) is a plausible precursor to spoken language, and there is are substantial anthropological arguments to support that thesis. It seems to me that stone tools are precursors of tools more generally, and mime may be a precursor to spoken language, while the anatomical prerequisites to speech are evolving. How did speech become such a necessity that it drove anatomical change, and when/why did tool=making "take off" after stagnating for millennia? But I'm only guessing, as are you David! This is not a palaeontologists' list, so I guess I was over-optimistic to think I'd get a decisive answer to this. Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm On 21/03/2018 4:24 PM, David Kellogg wrote: > I meant deaf people. There's a strong argument being made by deaf > linguists--which I agree with--that holds that spoken languages are an > offshoot of sign rather than the other way around. This sheds some light on > Andy's problem: people developed spoken languages when they found they had > other things to do with their hands, like hold tools. But I also think that > pre-linguistic children are an important minority that prefers the visual > channel, at least for taking in information, just as we adults who get most > of our information through reading do. > > There are some scripts that are more visual and others that are more > auditory--and within the same script we find elements that are more visual > (Chinese radicals) and others that are more auditory (the phonetic > components of Chinese characters). Even in English there are some elements > that are visually salient but not auditorily salient (e.g. punctuation, > variations in handwriting styles, fonts, etc.) and other elements that are > more auditory (the International Phonetic Alphabet which is really English > based and which has sought, for over a century, a perfect match between > phonemes and graphemes). Phonics is based on the idea that English has > evolved towards a one phoneme-one grapheme match; in fact, it has evolved > away from it. > > David Kellogg > Sangmyung University > > Recent Article in *Early Years* > > The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and the > child?s first interrogatives > > > Free e-print available at: > https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full > > > On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 1:11 PM, Helena Worthen > wrote: > >> David, what is the important minority that you?re referring to: >> >> "... the lowering of the vocal tract was phenomenal to language; >> it was only an epiphenomenal circumstance which made the majority of humans >> choose the vocal channel for language while an important minority choose >> the visual channel? ? ? >> >> And how can we see what can be seen in the visual channel? >> >> Helena Worthen >> helenaworthen@gmail.com >> Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 >> Blog US/ Viet Nam: >> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >> skype: helena.worthen1 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Mar 21, 2018, at 8:37 AM, David Kellogg wrote: >>> >>> Andy has a knack for winkling brilliant insights out of early Vygotsky: >> he >>> remarks somewhere that "Ape, Primitive, Child: Studies in the History of >>> Behavior," a book which I really didn't care much for, taught him that >>> whenever we decide on some essential distinction between human and >>> non-human behavior, we necessarily find rudiments of it in non-human >>> behavior. To which I would only add that the circumstance that the >>> rudiments of human behavior are linked to non-human behavior doesn't >> make >>> them indistinguishable. On the contrary, it is really only because human >>> behaviors are distinct that we can speak of them being linked (we don't >>> talk of air-breathing in humans as being linked to air-breathing in apes, >>> because the process is really one and the same; we do speak of language >> in >>> humans as being linked to ape vocalizations precisely because they are >>> distinct processes). If this is true of anthropogenetic phenomena like >> free >>> will, language and literacy, it's also true of their symptomatic >>> epiphenomena, such as migration, culture, and literature. I don't agree >>> with Andy that the lowering of the vocal tract was phenomenal to >> language; >>> it was only an epiphenomenal circumstance which made the majority of >> humans >>> choose the vocal channel for language while an important minority choose >>> the visual channel, to which the majority again reverted once alphabets >> and >>> literacy were invented (again, an exercise of some rudimentary form of >> free >>> will). >>> >>> Compare migration along a seacoast with migration into a mountainous >>> region. One requires no major change in productive relations, while the >>> other probably does. Similar with migration along an East-West axis. This >>> requires relatively little free will, as the climate does not change and >>> many of the plants and animals which provide food are probably the same. >> In >>> contrast, migration along a North-South axis, which involves climate >> change >>> and corresponding adaptations, would require relatively more communal >>> discussion, the process Andy calls collaborative decision making. I think >>> that wandering out of Africa involved, on the one hand, migration along >> the >>> Nile and coastlines and, on the other, migration out of a mountainous >>> region (the Rift Valley is pretty mountainous). But it also involved >>> migration along a North-South axis and not an East-West one. Of course, >>> staying put in Africa probably also involved collaborative decision >> making >>> over millenia, but we don't have any record of the decision as we do with >>> leaving the home continent >>> >>> David Kellogg >>> Sangmyung University >>> >>> Recent Article in *Early Years* >>> >>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and the >>> child?s first interrogatives >>> >>> >>> Free e-print available at: >>> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 9:07 AM, Martin Packer >> wrote: >>>> David, they wouldn't have known they were leaving their home continent, >>>> would they? Some of them were just lucky enough to wander in the >> direction >>>> of a land bridge, instead of into the ocean. Like any species that >> spreads >>>> into a new geographical location, no conscious decision required. >>>> >>>> Martin, who wandered into South America >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Mar 19, 2018, at 7:50 AM, David Kellogg >> wrote: >>>>> Somewhere in the discussion of Monica and Fernando's article, Fernando >>>> made >>>>> the remark that history does not know "ifs". Similarly, Monica implied >> at >>>>> one point that large technological changes must be taken as given; they >>>> are >>>>> not something over which humans have control. But even if we accept >>>>> the "Out of Africa" story which this article undermines, we are left >> with >>>>> the apparently conscious decision of early hominids to leave the home >>>>> continent, something none of the other great apes ever determined upon. >>>>> Vygotsky remarked that rudiments of all four forms of higher >>>>> behavior--instinct, enculturation, creativity, and free will that is >> none >>>>> of these--appear even in infancy. So it appears that free will was >> always >>>>> part of anthropogenesis, and consequently that history--including >> present >>>>> history--knows nothing but ifs. We just don't see the others because we >>>> are >>>>> sitting in one of them. >>>>> >>>>> David Kellogg >>>>> Sangmyung University >>>>> >>>>> Recent Article in *Early Years* >>>>> >>>>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and >> the >>>>> child?s first interrogatives >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Free e-print available at: >>>>> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 7:33 AM, mike cole wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> This synoptic story of the current state of research on human origins >>>> seems >>>>>> relevant to the cultural-historical folks around. >>>>>> mike >>>>>> >>>>>> https://www.sapiens.org/evolution/human-evolution- >>>>>> australia-asia/?utm_source=SAPIENS.org+Subscribers&utm_ >>>>>> campaign=1b31c25316-Email+Blast+12.22.2017&utm_medium= >>>>>> email&utm_term=0_18b7e41cd8-1b31c25316-199570669 >>>>>> >>>> >> >> From d.s.webster@durham.ac.uk Wed Mar 21 01:10:26 2018 From: d.s.webster@durham.ac.uk (WEBSTER, DAVID S.) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2018 08:10:26 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical In-Reply-To: <4bf362ed-1c89-ca1b-3646-e2da9a109fef@marxists.org> References: <030AF564-E49F-4D62-A7E8-1929B7295C28@gmail.com> <4bf362ed-1c89-ca1b-3646-e2da9a109fef@marxists.org> Message-ID: Please forgive my impatience but I have already directed you all to a site where all the points you (collectively) have so far made, and all the one that you are ever likely to make on this subject, have been raised and comprehensively worked over by Gans and those many scholars who have engaged with him. The nub is the progressive transformation from analogue to digital required for information transfer between different systems operating at differing time scales. What Gans described in his 'originary hypothesis' is the same transformational operation that was used to teach deaf and alingual children at Zagorsk that involves taking the actions of appropriation (actions for life skills) and pairing them down to a digital code - dactylic signing. For Andy: the Urpraxis, solidarity in your telling, arises at the originary scene of language (in Gans's telling) through the formation of a in-group out-group relation. Rant Over Ps its not that I agree with all Gans argues, But he does attempt to cover all bases where origin of language /human culture is concerned and in a non-sectarian/non-egotistical fashion and I therefor worth engaging with. No need to reinvent the wheel here. -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden Sent: 21 March 2018 05:39 To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical I think that the thesis that *mime* (to generalise beyond signing) is a plausible precursor to spoken language, and there is are substantial anthropological arguments to support that thesis. It seems to me that stone tools are precursors of tools more generally, and mime may be a precursor to spoken language, while the anatomical prerequisites to speech are evolving. How did speech become such a necessity that it drove anatomical change, and when/why did tool=making "take off" after stagnating for millennia? But I'm only guessing, as are you David! This is not a palaeontologists' list, so I guess I was over-optimistic to think I'd get a decisive answer to this. Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm On 21/03/2018 4:24 PM, David Kellogg wrote: > I meant deaf people. There's a strong argument being made by deaf > linguists--which I agree with--that holds that spoken languages are an > offshoot of sign rather than the other way around. This sheds some > light on Andy's problem: people developed spoken languages when they > found they had other things to do with their hands, like hold tools. > But I also think that pre-linguistic children are an important > minority that prefers the visual channel, at least for taking in > information, just as we adults who get most of our information through reading do. > > There are some scripts that are more visual and others that are more > auditory--and within the same script we find elements that are more > visual (Chinese radicals) and others that are more auditory (the > phonetic components of Chinese characters). Even in English there are > some elements that are visually salient but not auditorily salient > (e.g. punctuation, variations in handwriting styles, fonts, etc.) and > other elements that are more auditory (the International Phonetic > Alphabet which is really English based and which has sought, for over > a century, a perfect match between phonemes and graphemes). Phonics is > based on the idea that English has evolved towards a one phoneme-one > grapheme match; in fact, it has evolved away from it. > > David Kellogg > Sangmyung University > > Recent Article in *Early Years* > > The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and > the child?s first interrogatives > > > Free e-print available at: > https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full > > > On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 1:11 PM, Helena Worthen > > wrote: > >> David, what is the important minority that you?re referring to: >> >> "... the lowering of the vocal tract was phenomenal to language; it >> was only an epiphenomenal circumstance which made the majority of >> humans choose the vocal channel for language while an important >> minority choose the visual channel? ? ? >> >> And how can we see what can be seen in the visual channel? >> >> Helena Worthen >> helenaworthen@gmail.com >> Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 >> Blog US/ Viet Nam: >> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >> skype: helena.worthen1 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Mar 21, 2018, at 8:37 AM, David Kellogg wrote: >>> >>> Andy has a knack for winkling brilliant insights out of early Vygotsky: >> he >>> remarks somewhere that "Ape, Primitive, Child: Studies in the >>> History of Behavior," a book which I really didn't care much for, >>> taught him that whenever we decide on some essential distinction >>> between human and non-human behavior, we necessarily find rudiments >>> of it in non-human behavior. To which I would only add that the >>> circumstance that the rudiments of human behavior are linked to >>> non-human behavior doesn't >> make >>> them indistinguishable. On the contrary, it is really only because >>> human behaviors are distinct that we can speak of them being linked >>> (we don't talk of air-breathing in humans as being linked to >>> air-breathing in apes, because the process is really one and the >>> same; we do speak of language >> in >>> humans as being linked to ape vocalizations precisely because they >>> are distinct processes). If this is true of anthropogenetic >>> phenomena like >> free >>> will, language and literacy, it's also true of their symptomatic >>> epiphenomena, such as migration, culture, and literature. I don't >>> agree with Andy that the lowering of the vocal tract was phenomenal >>> to >> language; >>> it was only an epiphenomenal circumstance which made the majority of >> humans >>> choose the vocal channel for language while an important minority >>> choose the visual channel, to which the majority again reverted once >>> alphabets >> and >>> literacy were invented (again, an exercise of some rudimentary form >>> of >> free >>> will). >>> >>> Compare migration along a seacoast with migration into a mountainous >>> region. One requires no major change in productive relations, while >>> the other probably does. Similar with migration along an East-West >>> axis. This requires relatively little free will, as the climate does >>> not change and many of the plants and animals which provide food are probably the same. >> In >>> contrast, migration along a North-South axis, which involves climate >> change >>> and corresponding adaptations, would require relatively more >>> communal discussion, the process Andy calls collaborative decision >>> making. I think that wandering out of Africa involved, on the one >>> hand, migration along >> the >>> Nile and coastlines and, on the other, migration out of a >>> mountainous region (the Rift Valley is pretty mountainous). But it >>> also involved migration along a North-South axis and not an >>> East-West one. Of course, staying put in Africa probably also >>> involved collaborative decision >> making >>> over millenia, but we don't have any record of the decision as we do >>> with leaving the home continent >>> >>> David Kellogg >>> Sangmyung University >>> >>> Recent Article in *Early Years* >>> >>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and >>> the child?s first interrogatives >>> >>> >>> Free e-print available at: >>> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 9:07 AM, Martin Packer >> wrote: >>>> David, they wouldn't have known they were leaving their home >>>> continent, would they? Some of them were just lucky enough to >>>> wander in the >> direction >>>> of a land bridge, instead of into the ocean. Like any species that >> spreads >>>> into a new geographical location, no conscious decision required. >>>> >>>> Martin, who wandered into South America >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Mar 19, 2018, at 7:50 AM, David Kellogg >> wrote: >>>>> Somewhere in the discussion of Monica and Fernando's article, >>>>> Fernando >>>> made >>>>> the remark that history does not know "ifs". Similarly, Monica >>>>> implied >> at >>>>> one point that large technological changes must be taken as given; >>>>> they >>>> are >>>>> not something over which humans have control. But even if we >>>>> accept the "Out of Africa" story which this article undermines, we >>>>> are left >> with >>>>> the apparently conscious decision of early hominids to leave the >>>>> home continent, something none of the other great apes ever determined upon. >>>>> Vygotsky remarked that rudiments of all four forms of higher >>>>> behavior--instinct, enculturation, creativity, and free will that >>>>> is >> none >>>>> of these--appear even in infancy. So it appears that free will was >> always >>>>> part of anthropogenesis, and consequently that history--including >> present >>>>> history--knows nothing but ifs. We just don't see the others >>>>> because we >>>> are >>>>> sitting in one of them. >>>>> >>>>> David Kellogg >>>>> Sangmyung University >>>>> >>>>> Recent Article in *Early Years* >>>>> >>>>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, >>>>> and >> the >>>>> child?s first interrogatives >>>>> >>>> 4> >>>>> >>>>> Free e-print available at: >>>>> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 7:33 AM, mike cole wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> This synoptic story of the current state of research on human >>>>>> origins >>>> seems >>>>>> relevant to the cultural-historical folks around. >>>>>> mike >>>>>> >>>>>> https://www.sapiens.org/evolution/human-evolution- >>>>>> australia-asia/?utm_source=SAPIENS.org+Subscribers&utm_ >>>>>> campaign=1b31c25316-Email+Blast+12.22.2017&utm_medium= >>>>>> email&utm_term=0_18b7e41cd8-1b31c25316-199570669 >>>>>> >>>> >> >> From andyb@marxists.org Wed Mar 21 01:35:06 2018 From: andyb@marxists.org (Andy Blunden) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2018 19:35:06 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical In-Reply-To: References: <030AF564-E49F-4D62-A7E8-1929B7295C28@gmail.com> <4bf362ed-1c89-ca1b-3646-e2da9a109fef@marxists.org> Message-ID: <8bec7884-a666-b1cd-9b36-a38b816ae514@marxists.org> Sorry David. You directed us to the home page of a journal. I am chuffed that you have actually read some of my work, but I think in general people on xmca don't usually go further than reading an article of a few thousand words if it is relevant to a discussion. A whole journal archive? But if you can direct me to the article which correlates palaeontological evidence and speech and tool origins (not philosophical speculation) I will be all over it. (I love philosophical speculation, but not on this question just now). Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm On 21/03/2018 7:10 PM, WEBSTER, DAVID S. wrote: > Please forgive my impatience but I have already directed you all to a site where all the points you (collectively) have so far made, and all the one that you are ever likely to make on this subject, have been raised and comprehensively worked over by Gans and those many scholars who have engaged with him. The nub is the progressive transformation from analogue to digital required for information transfer between different systems operating at differing time scales. What Gans described in his 'originary hypothesis' is the same transformational operation that was used to teach deaf and alingual children at Zagorsk that involves taking the actions of appropriation (actions for life skills) and paring them down to a digital code - dactylic signing. For Andy: the Urpraxis, solidarity in your telling, arises at the originary scene of language (in Gans's telling) through the formation of a in-group out-group relation. > > Rant Over > > Ps its not that I agree with all Gans argues, But he does attempt to cover all bases where origin of language /human culture is concerned and in a non-sectarian/non-egotistical fashion and I therefor worth engaging with. No need to reinvent the wheel here. > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden > Sent: 21 March 2018 05:39 > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > > I think that the thesis that *mime* (to generalise beyond > signing) is a plausible precursor to spoken language, and there is are substantial anthropological arguments to support that thesis. It seems to me that stone tools are precursors of tools more generally, and mime may be a precursor to spoken language, while the anatomical prerequisites to speech are evolving. How did speech become such a necessity that it drove anatomical change, and when/why did tool=making "take off" after stagnating for millennia? > > But I'm only guessing, as are you David! > > This is not a palaeontologists' list, so I guess I was over-optimistic to think I'd get a decisive answer to this. > > Andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > On 21/03/2018 4:24 PM, David Kellogg wrote: >> I meant deaf people. There's a strong argument being made by deaf >> linguists--which I agree with--that holds that spoken languages are an >> offshoot of sign rather than the other way around. This sheds some >> light on Andy's problem: people developed spoken languages when they >> found they had other things to do with their hands, like hold tools. >> But I also think that pre-linguistic children are an important >> minority that prefers the visual channel, at least for taking in >> information, just as we adults who get most of our information through reading do. >> >> There are some scripts that are more visual and others that are more >> auditory--and within the same script we find elements that are more >> visual (Chinese radicals) and others that are more auditory (the >> phonetic components of Chinese characters). Even in English there are >> some elements that are visually salient but not auditorily salient >> (e.g. punctuation, variations in handwriting styles, fonts, etc.) and >> other elements that are more auditory (the International Phonetic >> Alphabet which is really English based and which has sought, for over >> a century, a perfect match between phonemes and graphemes). Phonics is >> based on the idea that English has evolved towards a one phoneme-one >> grapheme match; in fact, it has evolved away from it. >> >> David Kellogg >> Sangmyung University >> >> Recent Article in *Early Years* >> >> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and >> the child?s first interrogatives >> >> >> Free e-print available at: >> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 1:11 PM, Helena Worthen >> >> wrote: >> >>> David, what is the important minority that you?re referring to: >>> >>> "... the lowering of the vocal tract was phenomenal to language; it >>> was only an epiphenomenal circumstance which made the majority of >>> humans choose the vocal channel for language while an important >>> minority choose the visual channel? ? ? >>> >>> And how can we see what can be seen in the visual channel? >>> >>> Helena Worthen >>> helenaworthen@gmail.com >>> Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 >>> Blog US/ Viet Nam: >>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>> skype: helena.worthen1 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Mar 21, 2018, at 8:37 AM, David Kellogg wrote: >>>> >>>> Andy has a knack for winkling brilliant insights out of early Vygotsky: >>> he >>>> remarks somewhere that "Ape, Primitive, Child: Studies in the >>>> History of Behavior," a book which I really didn't care much for, >>>> taught him that whenever we decide on some essential distinction >>>> between human and non-human behavior, we necessarily find rudiments >>>> of it in non-human behavior. To which I would only add that the >>>> circumstance that the rudiments of human behavior are linked to >>>> non-human behavior doesn't >>> make >>>> them indistinguishable. On the contrary, it is really only because >>>> human behaviors are distinct that we can speak of them being linked >>>> (we don't talk of air-breathing in humans as being linked to >>>> air-breathing in apes, because the process is really one and the >>>> same; we do speak of language >>> in >>>> humans as being linked to ape vocalizations precisely because they >>>> are distinct processes). If this is true of anthropogenetic >>>> phenomena like >>> free >>>> will, language and literacy, it's also true of their symptomatic >>>> epiphenomena, such as migration, culture, and literature. I don't >>>> agree with Andy that the lowering of the vocal tract was phenomenal >>>> to >>> language; >>>> it was only an epiphenomenal circumstance which made the majority of >>> humans >>>> choose the vocal channel for language while an important minority >>>> choose the visual channel, to which the majority again reverted once >>>> alphabets >>> and >>>> literacy were invented (again, an exercise of some rudimentary form >>>> of >>> free >>>> will). >>>> >>>> Compare migration along a seacoast with migration into a mountainous >>>> region. One requires no major change in productive relations, while >>>> the other probably does. Similar with migration along an East-West >>>> axis. This requires relatively little free will, as the climate does >>>> not change and many of the plants and animals which provide food are probably the same. >>> In >>>> contrast, migration along a North-South axis, which involves climate >>> change >>>> and corresponding adaptations, would require relatively more >>>> communal discussion, the process Andy calls collaborative decision >>>> making. I think that wandering out of Africa involved, on the one >>>> hand, migration along >>> the >>>> Nile and coastlines and, on the other, migration out of a >>>> mountainous region (the Rift Valley is pretty mountainous). But it >>>> also involved migration along a North-South axis and not an >>>> East-West one. Of course, staying put in Africa probably also >>>> involved collaborative decision >>> making >>>> over millenia, but we don't have any record of the decision as we do >>>> with leaving the home continent >>>> >>>> David Kellogg >>>> Sangmyung University >>>> >>>> Recent Article in *Early Years* >>>> >>>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and >>>> the child?s first interrogatives >>>> >>>> >>>> Free e-print available at: >>>> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 9:07 AM, Martin Packer >>> wrote: >>>>> David, they wouldn't have known they were leaving their home >>>>> continent, would they? Some of them were just lucky enough to >>>>> wander in the >>> direction >>>>> of a land bridge, instead of into the ocean. Like any species that >>> spreads >>>>> into a new geographical location, no conscious decision required. >>>>> >>>>> Martin, who wandered into South America >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Mar 19, 2018, at 7:50 AM, David Kellogg >>> wrote: >>>>>> Somewhere in the discussion of Monica and Fernando's article, >>>>>> Fernando >>>>> made >>>>>> the remark that history does not know "ifs". Similarly, Monica >>>>>> implied >>> at >>>>>> one point that large technological changes must be taken as given; >>>>>> they >>>>> are >>>>>> not something over which humans have control. But even if we >>>>>> accept the "Out of Africa" story which this article undermines, we >>>>>> are left >>> with >>>>>> the apparently conscious decision of early hominids to leave the >>>>>> home continent, something none of the other great apes ever determined upon. >>>>>> Vygotsky remarked that rudiments of all four forms of higher >>>>>> behavior--instinct, enculturation, creativity, and free will that >>>>>> is >>> none >>>>>> of these--appear even in infancy. So it appears that free will was >>> always >>>>>> part of anthropogenesis, and consequently that history--including >>> present >>>>>> history--knows nothing but ifs. We just don't see the others >>>>>> because we >>>>> are >>>>>> sitting in one of them. >>>>>> >>>>>> David Kellogg >>>>>> Sangmyung University >>>>>> >>>>>> Recent Article in *Early Years* >>>>>> >>>>>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, >>>>>> and >>> the >>>>>> child?s first interrogatives >>>>>> >>>>> 4> >>>>>> >>>>>> Free e-print available at: >>>>>> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 7:33 AM, mike cole wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> This synoptic story of the current state of research on human >>>>>>> origins >>>>> seems >>>>>>> relevant to the cultural-historical folks around. >>>>>>> mike >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://www.sapiens.org/evolution/human-evolution- >>>>>>> australia-asia/?utm_source=SAPIENS.org+Subscribers&utm_ >>>>>>> campaign=1b31c25316-Email+Blast+12.22.2017&utm_medium= >>>>>>> email&utm_term=0_18b7e41cd8-1b31c25316-199570669 >>>>>>> >>> > From d.s.webster@durham.ac.uk Wed Mar 21 02:24:34 2018 From: d.s.webster@durham.ac.uk (WEBSTER, DAVID S.) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2018 09:24:34 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical In-Reply-To: <8bec7884-a666-b1cd-9b36-a38b816ae514@marxists.org> References: <030AF564-E49F-4D62-A7E8-1929B7295C28@gmail.com> <4bf362ed-1c89-ca1b-3646-e2da9a109fef@marxists.org> <8bec7884-a666-b1cd-9b36-a38b816ae514@marxists.org> Message-ID: As it happens there Gans offers a blog associated with the journal 'Chronicles of Love & Resentment' but his story start with his first book 'The origins of language'. Unfortunately, palaeontological evidence philosophical speculation and semiotics are blended throughout if with shifting focus. Not much directly on tool use if memory serves but that tends to follow on in one way or another from the rest. There was no expectation that anyone would need to digest the whole of the archive but it takes little effort to dip in and see what may catch your interest or ire and start from there. You might start your Gansian journey with 'The little big bang' (i.e. event of language) http://anthropoetics.ucla.edu/ap0501/gans-2/ -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden Sent: 21 March 2018 08:35 To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical Sorry David. You directed us to the home page of a journal. I am chuffed that you have actually read some of my work, but I think in general people on xmca don't usually go further than reading an article of a few thousand words if it is relevant to a discussion. A whole journal archive? But if you can direct me to the article which correlates palaeontological evidence and speech and tool origins (not philosophical speculation) I will be all over it. (I love philosophical speculation, but not on this question just now). Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm On 21/03/2018 7:10 PM, WEBSTER, DAVID S. wrote: > Please forgive my impatience but I have already directed you all to a site where all the points you (collectively) have so far made, and all the one that you are ever likely to make on this subject, have been raised and comprehensively worked over by Gans and those many scholars who have engaged with him. The nub is the progressive transformation from analogue to digital required for information transfer between different systems operating at differing time scales. What Gans described in his 'originary hypothesis' is the same transformational operation that was used to teach deaf and alingual children at Zagorsk that involves taking the actions of appropriation (actions for life skills) and paring them down to a digital code - dactylic signing. For Andy: the Urpraxis, solidarity in your telling, arises at the originary scene of language (in Gans's telling) through the formation of a in-group out-group relation. > > Rant Over > > Ps its not that I agree with all Gans argues, But he does attempt to cover all bases where origin of language /human culture is concerned and in a non-sectarian/non-egotistical fashion and I therefor worth engaging with. No need to reinvent the wheel here. > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden > Sent: 21 March 2018 05:39 > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > > I think that the thesis that *mime* (to generalise beyond > signing) is a plausible precursor to spoken language, and there is are substantial anthropological arguments to support that thesis. It seems to me that stone tools are precursors of tools more generally, and mime may be a precursor to spoken language, while the anatomical prerequisites to speech are evolving. How did speech become such a necessity that it drove anatomical change, and when/why did tool=making "take off" after stagnating for millennia? > > But I'm only guessing, as are you David! > > This is not a palaeontologists' list, so I guess I was over-optimistic to think I'd get a decisive answer to this. > > Andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > On 21/03/2018 4:24 PM, David Kellogg wrote: >> I meant deaf people. There's a strong argument being made by deaf >> linguists--which I agree with--that holds that spoken languages are >> an offshoot of sign rather than the other way around. This sheds some >> light on Andy's problem: people developed spoken languages when they >> found they had other things to do with their hands, like hold tools. >> But I also think that pre-linguistic children are an important >> minority that prefers the visual channel, at least for taking in >> information, just as we adults who get most of our information through reading do. >> >> There are some scripts that are more visual and others that are more >> auditory--and within the same script we find elements that are more >> visual (Chinese radicals) and others that are more auditory (the >> phonetic components of Chinese characters). Even in English there are >> some elements that are visually salient but not auditorily salient >> (e.g. punctuation, variations in handwriting styles, fonts, etc.) and >> other elements that are more auditory (the International Phonetic >> Alphabet which is really English based and which has sought, for over >> a century, a perfect match between phonemes and graphemes). Phonics >> is based on the idea that English has evolved towards a one >> phoneme-one grapheme match; in fact, it has evolved away from it. >> >> David Kellogg >> Sangmyung University >> >> Recent Article in *Early Years* >> >> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and >> the child?s first interrogatives >> >> >> Free e-print available at: >> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 1:11 PM, Helena Worthen >> >> wrote: >> >>> David, what is the important minority that you?re referring to: >>> >>> "... the lowering of the vocal tract was phenomenal to language; it >>> was only an epiphenomenal circumstance which made the majority of >>> humans choose the vocal channel for language while an important >>> minority choose the visual channel? ? ? >>> >>> And how can we see what can be seen in the visual channel? >>> >>> Helena Worthen >>> helenaworthen@gmail.com >>> Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 >>> Blog US/ Viet Nam: >>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>> skype: helena.worthen1 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Mar 21, 2018, at 8:37 AM, David Kellogg wrote: >>>> >>>> Andy has a knack for winkling brilliant insights out of early Vygotsky: >>> he >>>> remarks somewhere that "Ape, Primitive, Child: Studies in the >>>> History of Behavior," a book which I really didn't care much for, >>>> taught him that whenever we decide on some essential distinction >>>> between human and non-human behavior, we necessarily find rudiments >>>> of it in non-human behavior. To which I would only add that the >>>> circumstance that the rudiments of human behavior are linked to >>>> non-human behavior doesn't >>> make >>>> them indistinguishable. On the contrary, it is really only because >>>> human behaviors are distinct that we can speak of them being linked >>>> (we don't talk of air-breathing in humans as being linked to >>>> air-breathing in apes, because the process is really one and the >>>> same; we do speak of language >>> in >>>> humans as being linked to ape vocalizations precisely because they >>>> are distinct processes). If this is true of anthropogenetic >>>> phenomena like >>> free >>>> will, language and literacy, it's also true of their symptomatic >>>> epiphenomena, such as migration, culture, and literature. I don't >>>> agree with Andy that the lowering of the vocal tract was phenomenal >>>> to >>> language; >>>> it was only an epiphenomenal circumstance which made the majority >>>> of >>> humans >>>> choose the vocal channel for language while an important minority >>>> choose the visual channel, to which the majority again reverted >>>> once alphabets >>> and >>>> literacy were invented (again, an exercise of some rudimentary form >>>> of >>> free >>>> will). >>>> >>>> Compare migration along a seacoast with migration into a >>>> mountainous region. One requires no major change in productive >>>> relations, while the other probably does. Similar with migration >>>> along an East-West axis. This requires relatively little free will, >>>> as the climate does not change and many of the plants and animals which provide food are probably the same. >>> In >>>> contrast, migration along a North-South axis, which involves >>>> climate >>> change >>>> and corresponding adaptations, would require relatively more >>>> communal discussion, the process Andy calls collaborative decision >>>> making. I think that wandering out of Africa involved, on the one >>>> hand, migration along >>> the >>>> Nile and coastlines and, on the other, migration out of a >>>> mountainous region (the Rift Valley is pretty mountainous). But it >>>> also involved migration along a North-South axis and not an >>>> East-West one. Of course, staying put in Africa probably also >>>> involved collaborative decision >>> making >>>> over millenia, but we don't have any record of the decision as we >>>> do with leaving the home continent >>>> >>>> David Kellogg >>>> Sangmyung University >>>> >>>> Recent Article in *Early Years* >>>> >>>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, >>>> and the child?s first interrogatives >>>> >>> > >>>> >>>> Free e-print available at: >>>> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 9:07 AM, Martin Packer >>> wrote: >>>>> David, they wouldn't have known they were leaving their home >>>>> continent, would they? Some of them were just lucky enough to >>>>> wander in the >>> direction >>>>> of a land bridge, instead of into the ocean. Like any species that >>> spreads >>>>> into a new geographical location, no conscious decision required. >>>>> >>>>> Martin, who wandered into South America >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Mar 19, 2018, at 7:50 AM, David Kellogg >>> wrote: >>>>>> Somewhere in the discussion of Monica and Fernando's article, >>>>>> Fernando >>>>> made >>>>>> the remark that history does not know "ifs". Similarly, Monica >>>>>> implied >>> at >>>>>> one point that large technological changes must be taken as >>>>>> given; they >>>>> are >>>>>> not something over which humans have control. But even if we >>>>>> accept the "Out of Africa" story which this article undermines, >>>>>> we are left >>> with >>>>>> the apparently conscious decision of early hominids to leave the >>>>>> home continent, something none of the other great apes ever determined upon. >>>>>> Vygotsky remarked that rudiments of all four forms of higher >>>>>> behavior--instinct, enculturation, creativity, and free will that >>>>>> is >>> none >>>>>> of these--appear even in infancy. So it appears that free will >>>>>> was >>> always >>>>>> part of anthropogenesis, and consequently that history--including >>> present >>>>>> history--knows nothing but ifs. We just don't see the others >>>>>> because we >>>>> are >>>>>> sitting in one of them. >>>>>> >>>>>> David Kellogg >>>>>> Sangmyung University >>>>>> >>>>>> Recent Article in *Early Years* >>>>>> >>>>>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, >>>>>> and >>> the >>>>>> child?s first interrogatives >>>>>> >>>>> 7 >>>>>> 4> >>>>>> >>>>>> Free e-print available at: >>>>>> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 7:33 AM, mike cole wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> This synoptic story of the current state of research on human >>>>>>> origins >>>>> seems >>>>>>> relevant to the cultural-historical folks around. >>>>>>> mike >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://www.sapiens.org/evolution/human-evolution- >>>>>>> australia-asia/?utm_source=SAPIENS.org+Subscribers&utm_ >>>>>>> campaign=1b31c25316-Email+Blast+12.22.2017&utm_medium= >>>>>>> email&utm_term=0_18b7e41cd8-1b31c25316-199570669 >>>>>>> >>> > From andyb@marxists.org Wed Mar 21 05:48:39 2018 From: andyb@marxists.org (Andy Blunden) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2018 23:48:39 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical In-Reply-To: References: <030AF564-E49F-4D62-A7E8-1929B7295C28@gmail.com> <4bf362ed-1c89-ca1b-3646-e2da9a109fef@marxists.org> <8bec7884-a666-b1cd-9b36-a38b816ae514@marxists.org> Message-ID: <8714c5bb-063f-13c0-a430-e9d670019ccc@marxists.org> Wikpedia gives a fair picture of Gans's ideas, David. I'm sceptical. Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm On 21/03/2018 8:24 PM, WEBSTER, DAVID S. wrote: > As it happens there Gans offers a blog associated with the journal 'Chronicles of Love & Resentment' but his story start with his first book 'The origins of language'. Unfortunately, palaeontological evidence philosophical speculation and semiotics are blended throughout if with shifting focus. Not much directly on tool use if memory serves but that tends to follow on in one way or another from the rest. There was no expectation that anyone would need to digest the whole of the archive but it takes little effort to dip in and see what may catch your interest or ire and start from there. You might start your Gansian journey with 'The little big bang' (i.e. event of language) http://anthropoetics.ucla.edu/ap0501/gans-2/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden > Sent: 21 March 2018 08:35 > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > > Sorry David. You directed us to the home page of a journal. > I am chuffed that you have actually read some of my work, but I think in general people on xmca don't usually go further than reading an article of a few thousand words if it is relevant to a discussion. A whole journal archive? > > But if you can direct me to the article which correlates palaeontological evidence and speech and tool origins (not philosophical speculation) I will be all over it. (I love philosophical speculation, but not on this question just now). > > Andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > On 21/03/2018 7:10 PM, WEBSTER, DAVID S. wrote: >> Please forgive my impatience but I have already directed you all to a site where all the points you (collectively) have so far made, and all the one that you are ever likely to make on this subject, have been raised and comprehensively worked over by Gans and those many scholars who have engaged with him. The nub is the progressive transformation from analogue to digital required for information transfer between different systems operating at differing time scales. What Gans described in his 'originary hypothesis' is the same transformational operation that was used to teach deaf and alingual children at Zagorsk that involves taking the actions of appropriation (actions for life skills) and paring them down to a digital code - dactylic signing. For Andy: the Urpraxis, solidarity in your telling, arises at the originary scene of language (in Gans's telling) through the formation of a in-group out-group relation. >> >> Rant Over >> >> Ps its not that I agree with all Gans argues, But he does attempt to cover all bases where origin of language /human culture is concerned and in a non-sectarian/non-egotistical fashion and I therefor worth engaging with. No need to reinvent the wheel here. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden >> Sent: 21 March 2018 05:39 >> To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical >> >> I think that the thesis that *mime* (to generalise beyond >> signing) is a plausible precursor to spoken language, and there is are substantial anthropological arguments to support that thesis. It seems to me that stone tools are precursors of tools more generally, and mime may be a precursor to spoken language, while the anatomical prerequisites to speech are evolving. How did speech become such a necessity that it drove anatomical change, and when/why did tool=making "take off" after stagnating for millennia? >> >> But I'm only guessing, as are you David! >> >> This is not a palaeontologists' list, so I guess I was over-optimistic to think I'd get a decisive answer to this. >> >> Andy >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> Andy Blunden >> ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm >> On 21/03/2018 4:24 PM, David Kellogg wrote: >>> I meant deaf people. There's a strong argument being made by deaf >>> linguists--which I agree with--that holds that spoken languages are >>> an offshoot of sign rather than the other way around. This sheds some >>> light on Andy's problem: people developed spoken languages when they >>> found they had other things to do with their hands, like hold tools. >>> But I also think that pre-linguistic children are an important >>> minority that prefers the visual channel, at least for taking in >>> information, just as we adults who get most of our information through reading do. >>> >>> There are some scripts that are more visual and others that are more >>> auditory--and within the same script we find elements that are more >>> visual (Chinese radicals) and others that are more auditory (the >>> phonetic components of Chinese characters). Even in English there are >>> some elements that are visually salient but not auditorily salient >>> (e.g. punctuation, variations in handwriting styles, fonts, etc.) and >>> other elements that are more auditory (the International Phonetic >>> Alphabet which is really English based and which has sought, for over >>> a century, a perfect match between phonemes and graphemes). Phonics >>> is based on the idea that English has evolved towards a one >>> phoneme-one grapheme match; in fact, it has evolved away from it. >>> >>> David Kellogg >>> Sangmyung University >>> >>> Recent Article in *Early Years* >>> >>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and >>> the child?s first interrogatives >>> >>> >>> Free e-print available at: >>> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 1:11 PM, Helena Worthen >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> David, what is the important minority that you?re referring to: >>>> >>>> "... the lowering of the vocal tract was phenomenal to language; it >>>> was only an epiphenomenal circumstance which made the majority of >>>> humans choose the vocal channel for language while an important >>>> minority choose the visual channel? ? ? >>>> >>>> And how can we see what can be seen in the visual channel? >>>> >>>> Helena Worthen >>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com >>>> Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 >>>> Blog US/ Viet Nam: >>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>>> skype: helena.worthen1 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Mar 21, 2018, at 8:37 AM, David Kellogg wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Andy has a knack for winkling brilliant insights out of early Vygotsky: >>>> he >>>>> remarks somewhere that "Ape, Primitive, Child: Studies in the >>>>> History of Behavior," a book which I really didn't care much for, >>>>> taught him that whenever we decide on some essential distinction >>>>> between human and non-human behavior, we necessarily find rudiments >>>>> of it in non-human behavior. To which I would only add that the >>>>> circumstance that the rudiments of human behavior are linked to >>>>> non-human behavior doesn't >>>> make >>>>> them indistinguishable. On the contrary, it is really only because >>>>> human behaviors are distinct that we can speak of them being linked >>>>> (we don't talk of air-breathing in humans as being linked to >>>>> air-breathing in apes, because the process is really one and the >>>>> same; we do speak of language >>>> in >>>>> humans as being linked to ape vocalizations precisely because they >>>>> are distinct processes). If this is true of anthropogenetic >>>>> phenomena like >>>> free >>>>> will, language and literacy, it's also true of their symptomatic >>>>> epiphenomena, such as migration, culture, and literature. I don't >>>>> agree with Andy that the lowering of the vocal tract was phenomenal >>>>> to >>>> language; >>>>> it was only an epiphenomenal circumstance which made the majority >>>>> of >>>> humans >>>>> choose the vocal channel for language while an important minority >>>>> choose the visual channel, to which the majority again reverted >>>>> once alphabets >>>> and >>>>> literacy were invented (again, an exercise of some rudimentary form >>>>> of >>>> free >>>>> will). >>>>> >>>>> Compare migration along a seacoast with migration into a >>>>> mountainous region. One requires no major change in productive >>>>> relations, while the other probably does. Similar with migration >>>>> along an East-West axis. This requires relatively little free will, >>>>> as the climate does not change and many of the plants and animals which provide food are probably the same. >>>> In >>>>> contrast, migration along a North-South axis, which involves >>>>> climate >>>> change >>>>> and corresponding adaptations, would require relatively more >>>>> communal discussion, the process Andy calls collaborative decision >>>>> making. I think that wandering out of Africa involved, on the one >>>>> hand, migration along >>>> the >>>>> Nile and coastlines and, on the other, migration out of a >>>>> mountainous region (the Rift Valley is pretty mountainous). But it >>>>> also involved migration along a North-South axis and not an >>>>> East-West one. Of course, staying put in Africa probably also >>>>> involved collaborative decision >>>> making >>>>> over millenia, but we don't have any record of the decision as we >>>>> do with leaving the home continent >>>>> >>>>> David Kellogg >>>>> Sangmyung University >>>>> >>>>> Recent Article in *Early Years* >>>>> >>>>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, >>>>> and the child?s first interrogatives >>>>> >>>> Free e-print available at: >>>>> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 9:07 AM, Martin Packer >>>> wrote: >>>>>> David, they wouldn't have known they were leaving their home >>>>>> continent, would they? Some of them were just lucky enough to >>>>>> wander in the >>>> direction >>>>>> of a land bridge, instead of into the ocean. Like any species that >>>> spreads >>>>>> into a new geographical location, no conscious decision required. >>>>>> >>>>>> Martin, who wandered into South America >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mar 19, 2018, at 7:50 AM, David Kellogg >>>> wrote: >>>>>>> Somewhere in the discussion of Monica and Fernando's article, >>>>>>> Fernando >>>>>> made >>>>>>> the remark that history does not know "ifs". Similarly, Monica >>>>>>> implied >>>> at >>>>>>> one point that large technological changes must be taken as >>>>>>> given; they >>>>>> are >>>>>>> not something over which humans have control. But even if we >>>>>>> accept the "Out of Africa" story which this article undermines, >>>>>>> we are left >>>> with >>>>>>> the apparently conscious decision of early hominids to leave the >>>>>>> home continent, something none of the other great apes ever determined upon. >>>>>>> Vygotsky remarked that rudiments of all four forms of higher >>>>>>> behavior--instinct, enculturation, creativity, and free will that >>>>>>> is >>>> none >>>>>>> of these--appear even in infancy. So it appears that free will >>>>>>> was >>>> always >>>>>>> part of anthropogenesis, and consequently that history--including >>>> present >>>>>>> history--knows nothing but ifs. We just don't see the others >>>>>>> because we >>>>>> are >>>>>>> sitting in one of them. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> David Kellogg >>>>>>> Sangmyung University >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Recent Article in *Early Years* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, >>>>>>> and >>>> the >>>>>>> child?s first interrogatives >>>>>>> >>>>>> 7 >>>>>>> 4> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Free e-print available at: >>>>>>> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 7:33 AM, mike cole wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This synoptic story of the current state of research on human >>>>>>>> origins >>>>>> seems >>>>>>>> relevant to the cultural-historical folks around. >>>>>>>> mike >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://www.sapiens.org/evolution/human-evolution- >>>>>>>> australia-asia/?utm_source=SAPIENS.org+Subscribers&utm_ >>>>>>>> campaign=1b31c25316-Email+Blast+12.22.2017&utm_medium= >>>>>>>> email&utm_term=0_18b7e41cd8-1b31c25316-199570669 >>>>>>>> > From d.s.webster@durham.ac.uk Wed Mar 21 06:15:37 2018 From: d.s.webster@durham.ac.uk (WEBSTER, DAVID S.) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2018 13:15:37 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical In-Reply-To: <8714c5bb-063f-13c0-a430-e9d670019ccc@marxists.org> References: <030AF564-E49F-4D62-A7E8-1929B7295C28@gmail.com> <4bf362ed-1c89-ca1b-3646-e2da9a109fef@marxists.org> <8bec7884-a666-b1cd-9b36-a38b816ae514@marxists.org> <8714c5bb-063f-13c0-a430-e9d670019ccc@marxists.org> Message-ID: Why read Wikipedia when you can just as easily read Gans? Sceptical, fine, why? -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden Sent: 21 March 2018 12:49 To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical Wikpedia gives a fair picture of Gans's ideas, David. I'm sceptical. Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm On 21/03/2018 8:24 PM, WEBSTER, DAVID S. wrote: > As it happens there Gans offers a blog associated with the journal > 'Chronicles of Love & Resentment' but his story start with his first > book 'The origins of language'. Unfortunately, palaeontological > evidence philosophical speculation and semiotics are blended > throughout if with shifting focus. Not much directly on tool use if > memory serves but that tends to follow on in one way or another from > the rest. There was no expectation that anyone would need to digest > the whole of the archive but it takes little effort to dip in and see > what may catch your interest or ire and start from there. You might > start your Gansian journey with 'The little big bang' (i.e. event of > language) http://anthropoetics.ucla.edu/ap0501/gans-2/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden > Sent: 21 March 2018 08:35 > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > > Sorry David. You directed us to the home page of a journal. > I am chuffed that you have actually read some of my work, but I think in general people on xmca don't usually go further than reading an article of a few thousand words if it is relevant to a discussion. A whole journal archive? > > But if you can direct me to the article which correlates palaeontological evidence and speech and tool origins (not philosophical speculation) I will be all over it. (I love philosophical speculation, but not on this question just now). > > Andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > On 21/03/2018 7:10 PM, WEBSTER, DAVID S. wrote: >> Please forgive my impatience but I have already directed you all to a site where all the points you (collectively) have so far made, and all the one that you are ever likely to make on this subject, have been raised and comprehensively worked over by Gans and those many scholars who have engaged with him. The nub is the progressive transformation from analogue to digital required for information transfer between different systems operating at differing time scales. What Gans described in his 'originary hypothesis' is the same transformational operation that was used to teach deaf and alingual children at Zagorsk that involves taking the actions of appropriation (actions for life skills) and paring them down to a digital code - dactylic signing. For Andy: the Urpraxis, solidarity in your telling, arises at the originary scene of language (in Gans's telling) through the formation of a in-group out-group relation. >> >> Rant Over >> >> Ps its not that I agree with all Gans argues, But he does attempt to cover all bases where origin of language /human culture is concerned and in a non-sectarian/non-egotistical fashion and I therefor worth engaging with. No need to reinvent the wheel here. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden >> Sent: 21 March 2018 05:39 >> To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical >> >> I think that the thesis that *mime* (to generalise beyond >> signing) is a plausible precursor to spoken language, and there is are substantial anthropological arguments to support that thesis. It seems to me that stone tools are precursors of tools more generally, and mime may be a precursor to spoken language, while the anatomical prerequisites to speech are evolving. How did speech become such a necessity that it drove anatomical change, and when/why did tool=making "take off" after stagnating for millennia? >> >> But I'm only guessing, as are you David! >> >> This is not a palaeontologists' list, so I guess I was over-optimistic to think I'd get a decisive answer to this. >> >> Andy >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> Andy Blunden >> ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm >> On 21/03/2018 4:24 PM, David Kellogg wrote: >>> I meant deaf people. There's a strong argument being made by deaf >>> linguists--which I agree with--that holds that spoken languages are >>> an offshoot of sign rather than the other way around. This sheds >>> some light on Andy's problem: people developed spoken languages when >>> they found they had other things to do with their hands, like hold tools. >>> But I also think that pre-linguistic children are an important >>> minority that prefers the visual channel, at least for taking in >>> information, just as we adults who get most of our information through reading do. >>> >>> There are some scripts that are more visual and others that are more >>> auditory--and within the same script we find elements that are more >>> visual (Chinese radicals) and others that are more auditory (the >>> phonetic components of Chinese characters). Even in English there >>> are some elements that are visually salient but not auditorily >>> salient (e.g. punctuation, variations in handwriting styles, fonts, >>> etc.) and other elements that are more auditory (the International >>> Phonetic Alphabet which is really English based and which has >>> sought, for over a century, a perfect match between phonemes and >>> graphemes). Phonics is based on the idea that English has evolved >>> towards a one phoneme-one grapheme match; in fact, it has evolved away from it. >>> >>> David Kellogg >>> Sangmyung University >>> >>> Recent Article in *Early Years* >>> >>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and >>> the child?s first interrogatives >>> >>> >>> Free e-print available at: >>> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 1:11 PM, Helena Worthen >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> David, what is the important minority that you?re referring to: >>>> >>>> "... the lowering of the vocal tract was phenomenal to language; it >>>> was only an epiphenomenal circumstance which made the majority of >>>> humans choose the vocal channel for language while an important >>>> minority choose the visual channel? ? ? >>>> >>>> And how can we see what can be seen in the visual channel? >>>> >>>> Helena Worthen >>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com >>>> Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 >>>> Blog US/ Viet Nam: >>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>>> skype: helena.worthen1 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Mar 21, 2018, at 8:37 AM, David Kellogg wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Andy has a knack for winkling brilliant insights out of early Vygotsky: >>>> he >>>>> remarks somewhere that "Ape, Primitive, Child: Studies in the >>>>> History of Behavior," a book which I really didn't care much for, >>>>> taught him that whenever we decide on some essential distinction >>>>> between human and non-human behavior, we necessarily find >>>>> rudiments of it in non-human behavior. To which I would only add >>>>> that the circumstance that the rudiments of human behavior are >>>>> linked to non-human behavior doesn't >>>> make >>>>> them indistinguishable. On the contrary, it is really only because >>>>> human behaviors are distinct that we can speak of them being >>>>> linked (we don't talk of air-breathing in humans as being linked >>>>> to air-breathing in apes, because the process is really one and >>>>> the same; we do speak of language >>>> in >>>>> humans as being linked to ape vocalizations precisely because they >>>>> are distinct processes). If this is true of anthropogenetic >>>>> phenomena like >>>> free >>>>> will, language and literacy, it's also true of their symptomatic >>>>> epiphenomena, such as migration, culture, and literature. I don't >>>>> agree with Andy that the lowering of the vocal tract was >>>>> phenomenal to >>>> language; >>>>> it was only an epiphenomenal circumstance which made the majority >>>>> of >>>> humans >>>>> choose the vocal channel for language while an important minority >>>>> choose the visual channel, to which the majority again reverted >>>>> once alphabets >>>> and >>>>> literacy were invented (again, an exercise of some rudimentary >>>>> form of >>>> free >>>>> will). >>>>> >>>>> Compare migration along a seacoast with migration into a >>>>> mountainous region. One requires no major change in productive >>>>> relations, while the other probably does. Similar with migration >>>>> along an East-West axis. This requires relatively little free >>>>> will, as the climate does not change and many of the plants and animals which provide food are probably the same. >>>> In >>>>> contrast, migration along a North-South axis, which involves >>>>> climate >>>> change >>>>> and corresponding adaptations, would require relatively more >>>>> communal discussion, the process Andy calls collaborative decision >>>>> making. I think that wandering out of Africa involved, on the one >>>>> hand, migration along >>>> the >>>>> Nile and coastlines and, on the other, migration out of a >>>>> mountainous region (the Rift Valley is pretty mountainous). But it >>>>> also involved migration along a North-South axis and not an >>>>> East-West one. Of course, staying put in Africa probably also >>>>> involved collaborative decision >>>> making >>>>> over millenia, but we don't have any record of the decision as we >>>>> do with leaving the home continent >>>>> >>>>> David Kellogg >>>>> Sangmyung University >>>>> >>>>> Recent Article in *Early Years* >>>>> >>>>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, >>>>> and the child?s first interrogatives >>>>> >>>> 4 >>>>> Free e-print available at: >>>>> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 9:07 AM, Martin Packer >>>>> >>>> wrote: >>>>>> David, they wouldn't have known they were leaving their home >>>>>> continent, would they? Some of them were just lucky enough to >>>>>> wander in the >>>> direction >>>>>> of a land bridge, instead of into the ocean. Like any species >>>>>> that >>>> spreads >>>>>> into a new geographical location, no conscious decision required. >>>>>> >>>>>> Martin, who wandered into South America >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mar 19, 2018, at 7:50 AM, David Kellogg >>>>>>> >>>> wrote: >>>>>>> Somewhere in the discussion of Monica and Fernando's article, >>>>>>> Fernando >>>>>> made >>>>>>> the remark that history does not know "ifs". Similarly, Monica >>>>>>> implied >>>> at >>>>>>> one point that large technological changes must be taken as >>>>>>> given; they >>>>>> are >>>>>>> not something over which humans have control. But even if we >>>>>>> accept the "Out of Africa" story which this article undermines, >>>>>>> we are left >>>> with >>>>>>> the apparently conscious decision of early hominids to leave the >>>>>>> home continent, something none of the other great apes ever determined upon. >>>>>>> Vygotsky remarked that rudiments of all four forms of higher >>>>>>> behavior--instinct, enculturation, creativity, and free will >>>>>>> that is >>>> none >>>>>>> of these--appear even in infancy. So it appears that free will >>>>>>> was >>>> always >>>>>>> part of anthropogenesis, and consequently that >>>>>>> history--including >>>> present >>>>>>> history--knows nothing but ifs. We just don't see the others >>>>>>> because we >>>>>> are >>>>>>> sitting in one of them. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> David Kellogg >>>>>>> Sangmyung University >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Recent Article in *Early Years* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, >>>>>>> and >>>> the >>>>>>> child?s first interrogatives >>>>>>> >>>>>> 8 >>>>>>> 7 >>>>>>> 4> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Free e-print available at: >>>>>>> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 7:33 AM, mike cole wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This synoptic story of the current state of research on human >>>>>>>> origins >>>>>> seems >>>>>>>> relevant to the cultural-historical folks around. >>>>>>>> mike >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://www.sapiens.org/evolution/human-evolution- >>>>>>>> australia-asia/?utm_source=SAPIENS.org+Subscribers&utm_ >>>>>>>> campaign=1b31c25316-Email+Blast+12.22.2017&utm_medium= >>>>>>>> email&utm_term=0_18b7e41cd8-1b31c25316-199570669 >>>>>>>> > From andyb@marxists.org Wed Mar 21 06:25:35 2018 From: andyb@marxists.org (Andy Blunden) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2018 00:25:35 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical In-Reply-To: References: <030AF564-E49F-4D62-A7E8-1929B7295C28@gmail.com> <4bf362ed-1c89-ca1b-3646-e2da9a109fef@marxists.org> <8bec7884-a666-b1cd-9b36-a38b816ae514@marxists.org> <8714c5bb-063f-13c0-a430-e9d670019ccc@marxists.org> Message-ID: <0e61135e-a370-6807-79a2-5655df9805d9@marxists.org> In short David, because I am writing. If something caught my imagination I would make time for it. At the moment, like everyone else I suspect, I am busy. But I am still up for hard news of a palaeontological kind. Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm On 22/03/2018 12:15 AM, WEBSTER, DAVID S. wrote: > Why read Wikipedia when you can just as easily read Gans? Sceptical, fine, why? > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden > Sent: 21 March 2018 12:49 > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > > Wikpedia gives a fair picture of Gans's ideas, David. I'm sceptical. > > Andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > On 21/03/2018 8:24 PM, WEBSTER, DAVID S. wrote: >> As it happens there Gans offers a blog associated with the journal >> 'Chronicles of Love & Resentment' but his story start with his first >> book 'The origins of language'. Unfortunately, palaeontological >> evidence philosophical speculation and semiotics are blended >> throughout if with shifting focus. Not much directly on tool use if >> memory serves but that tends to follow on in one way or another from >> the rest. There was no expectation that anyone would need to digest >> the whole of the archive but it takes little effort to dip in and see >> what may catch your interest or ire and start from there. You might >> start your Gansian journey with 'The little big bang' (i.e. event of >> language) http://anthropoetics.ucla.edu/ap0501/gans-2/ >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden >> Sent: 21 March 2018 08:35 >> To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical >> >> Sorry David. You directed us to the home page of a journal. >> I am chuffed that you have actually read some of my work, but I think in general people on xmca don't usually go further than reading an article of a few thousand words if it is relevant to a discussion. A whole journal archive? >> >> But if you can direct me to the article which correlates palaeontological evidence and speech and tool origins (not philosophical speculation) I will be all over it. (I love philosophical speculation, but not on this question just now). >> >> Andy >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> Andy Blunden >> ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm >> On 21/03/2018 7:10 PM, WEBSTER, DAVID S. wrote: >>> Please forgive my impatience but I have already directed you all to a site where all the points you (collectively) have so far made, and all the one that you are ever likely to make on this subject, have been raised and comprehensively worked over by Gans and those many scholars who have engaged with him. The nub is the progressive transformation from analogue to digital required for information transfer between different systems operating at differing time scales. What Gans described in his 'originary hypothesis' is the same transformational operation that was used to teach deaf and alingual children at Zagorsk that involves taking the actions of appropriation (actions for life skills) and paring them down to a digital code - dactylic signing. For Andy: the Urpraxis, solidarity in your telling, arises at the originary scene of language (in Gans's telling) through the formation of a in-group out-group relation. >>> >>> Rant Over >>> >>> Ps its not that I agree with all Gans argues, But he does attempt to cover all bases where origin of language /human culture is concerned and in a non-sectarian/non-egotistical fashion and I therefor worth engaging with. No need to reinvent the wheel here. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>> [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden >>> Sent: 21 March 2018 05:39 >>> To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical >>> >>> I think that the thesis that *mime* (to generalise beyond >>> signing) is a plausible precursor to spoken language, and there is are substantial anthropological arguments to support that thesis. It seems to me that stone tools are precursors of tools more generally, and mime may be a precursor to spoken language, while the anatomical prerequisites to speech are evolving. How did speech become such a necessity that it drove anatomical change, and when/why did tool=making "take off" after stagnating for millennia? >>> >>> But I'm only guessing, as are you David! >>> >>> This is not a palaeontologists' list, so I guess I was over-optimistic to think I'd get a decisive answer to this. >>> >>> Andy >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Andy Blunden >>> ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm >>> On 21/03/2018 4:24 PM, David Kellogg wrote: >>>> I meant deaf people. There's a strong argument being made by deaf >>>> linguists--which I agree with--that holds that spoken languages are >>>> an offshoot of sign rather than the other way around. This sheds >>>> some light on Andy's problem: people developed spoken languages when >>>> they found they had other things to do with their hands, like hold tools. >>>> But I also think that pre-linguistic children are an important >>>> minority that prefers the visual channel, at least for taking in >>>> information, just as we adults who get most of our information through reading do. >>>> >>>> There are some scripts that are more visual and others that are more >>>> auditory--and within the same script we find elements that are more >>>> visual (Chinese radicals) and others that are more auditory (the >>>> phonetic components of Chinese characters). Even in English there >>>> are some elements that are visually salient but not auditorily >>>> salient (e.g. punctuation, variations in handwriting styles, fonts, >>>> etc.) and other elements that are more auditory (the International >>>> Phonetic Alphabet which is really English based and which has >>>> sought, for over a century, a perfect match between phonemes and >>>> graphemes). Phonics is based on the idea that English has evolved >>>> towards a one phoneme-one grapheme match; in fact, it has evolved away from it. >>>> >>>> David Kellogg >>>> Sangmyung University >>>> >>>> Recent Article in *Early Years* >>>> >>>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and >>>> the child?s first interrogatives >>>> >>>> >>>> Free e-print available at: >>>> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 1:11 PM, Helena Worthen >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> David, what is the important minority that you?re referring to: >>>>> >>>>> "... the lowering of the vocal tract was phenomenal to language; it >>>>> was only an epiphenomenal circumstance which made the majority of >>>>> humans choose the vocal channel for language while an important >>>>> minority choose the visual channel? ? ? >>>>> >>>>> And how can we see what can be seen in the visual channel? >>>>> >>>>> Helena Worthen >>>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com >>>>> Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 >>>>> Blog US/ Viet Nam: >>>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>>>> skype: helena.worthen1 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Mar 21, 2018, at 8:37 AM, David Kellogg wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Andy has a knack for winkling brilliant insights out of early Vygotsky: >>>>> he >>>>>> remarks somewhere that "Ape, Primitive, Child: Studies in the >>>>>> History of Behavior," a book which I really didn't care much for, >>>>>> taught him that whenever we decide on some essential distinction >>>>>> between human and non-human behavior, we necessarily find >>>>>> rudiments of it in non-human behavior. To which I would only add >>>>>> that the circumstance that the rudiments of human behavior are >>>>>> linked to non-human behavior doesn't >>>>> make >>>>>> them indistinguishable. On the contrary, it is really only because >>>>>> human behaviors are distinct that we can speak of them being >>>>>> linked (we don't talk of air-breathing in humans as being linked >>>>>> to air-breathing in apes, because the process is really one and >>>>>> the same; we do speak of language >>>>> in >>>>>> humans as being linked to ape vocalizations precisely because they >>>>>> are distinct processes). If this is true of anthropogenetic >>>>>> phenomena like >>>>> free >>>>>> will, language and literacy, it's also true of their symptomatic >>>>>> epiphenomena, such as migration, culture, and literature. I don't >>>>>> agree with Andy that the lowering of the vocal tract was >>>>>> phenomenal to >>>>> language; >>>>>> it was only an epiphenomenal circumstance which made the majority >>>>>> of >>>>> humans >>>>>> choose the vocal channel for language while an important minority >>>>>> choose the visual channel, to which the majority again reverted >>>>>> once alphabets >>>>> and >>>>>> literacy were invented (again, an exercise of some rudimentary >>>>>> form of >>>>> free >>>>>> will). >>>>>> >>>>>> Compare migration along a seacoast with migration into a >>>>>> mountainous region. One requires no major change in productive >>>>>> relations, while the other probably does. Similar with migration >>>>>> along an East-West axis. This requires relatively little free >>>>>> will, as the climate does not change and many of the plants and animals which provide food are probably the same. >>>>> In >>>>>> contrast, migration along a North-South axis, which involves >>>>>> climate >>>>> change >>>>>> and corresponding adaptations, would require relatively more >>>>>> communal discussion, the process Andy calls collaborative decision >>>>>> making. I think that wandering out of Africa involved, on the one >>>>>> hand, migration along >>>>> the >>>>>> Nile and coastlines and, on the other, migration out of a >>>>>> mountainous region (the Rift Valley is pretty mountainous). But it >>>>>> also involved migration along a North-South axis and not an >>>>>> East-West one. Of course, staying put in Africa probably also >>>>>> involved collaborative decision >>>>> making >>>>>> over millenia, but we don't have any record of the decision as we >>>>>> do with leaving the home continent >>>>>> >>>>>> David Kellogg >>>>>> Sangmyung University >>>>>> >>>>>> Recent Article in *Early Years* >>>>>> >>>>>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, >>>>>> and the child?s first interrogatives >>>>>> >>>>> 4 >>>>>> Free e-print available at: >>>>>> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 9:07 AM, Martin Packer >>>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> David, they wouldn't have known they were leaving their home >>>>>>> continent, would they? Some of them were just lucky enough to >>>>>>> wander in the >>>>> direction >>>>>>> of a land bridge, instead of into the ocean. Like any species >>>>>>> that >>>>> spreads >>>>>>> into a new geographical location, no conscious decision required. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Martin, who wandered into South America >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mar 19, 2018, at 7:50 AM, David Kellogg >>>>>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> Somewhere in the discussion of Monica and Fernando's article, >>>>>>>> Fernando >>>>>>> made >>>>>>>> the remark that history does not know "ifs". Similarly, Monica >>>>>>>> implied >>>>> at >>>>>>>> one point that large technological changes must be taken as >>>>>>>> given; they >>>>>>> are >>>>>>>> not something over which humans have control. But even if we >>>>>>>> accept the "Out of Africa" story which this article undermines, >>>>>>>> we are left >>>>> with >>>>>>>> the apparently conscious decision of early hominids to leave the >>>>>>>> home continent, something none of the other great apes ever determined upon. >>>>>>>> Vygotsky remarked that rudiments of all four forms of higher >>>>>>>> behavior--instinct, enculturation, creativity, and free will >>>>>>>> that is >>>>> none >>>>>>>> of these--appear even in infancy. So it appears that free will >>>>>>>> was >>>>> always >>>>>>>> part of anthropogenesis, and consequently that >>>>>>>> history--including >>>>> present >>>>>>>> history--knows nothing but ifs. We just don't see the others >>>>>>>> because we >>>>>>> are >>>>>>>> sitting in one of them. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> David Kellogg >>>>>>>> Sangmyung University >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Recent Article in *Early Years* >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, >>>>>>>> and >>>>> the >>>>>>>> child?s first interrogatives >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> 8 >>>>>>>> 7 >>>>>>>> 4> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Free e-print available at: >>>>>>>> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 7:33 AM, mike cole wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This synoptic story of the current state of research on human >>>>>>>>> origins >>>>>>> seems >>>>>>>>> relevant to the cultural-historical folks around. >>>>>>>>> mike >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> https://www.sapiens.org/evolution/human-evolution- >>>>>>>>> australia-asia/?utm_source=SAPIENS.org+Subscribers&utm_ >>>>>>>>> campaign=1b31c25316-Email+Blast+12.22.2017&utm_medium= >>>>>>>>> email&utm_term=0_18b7e41cd8-1b31c25316-199570669 >>>>>>>>> > From d.s.webster@durham.ac.uk Wed Mar 21 07:35:02 2018 From: d.s.webster@durham.ac.uk (WEBSTER, DAVID S.) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2018 14:35:02 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical In-Reply-To: <0e61135e-a370-6807-79a2-5655df9805d9@marxists.org> References: <030AF564-E49F-4D62-A7E8-1929B7295C28@gmail.com> <4bf362ed-1c89-ca1b-3646-e2da9a109fef@marxists.org> <8bec7884-a666-b1cd-9b36-a38b816ae514@marxists.org> <8714c5bb-063f-13c0-a430-e9d670019ccc@marxists.org> <0e61135e-a370-6807-79a2-5655df9805d9@marxists.org> Message-ID: Andy, dear heart; busy will be tomorrow, hand excavating a Neolithic ditch with mattock and trowel - there might even be some flints to find! Academic writing is pure relaxation.. Regards David -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden Sent: 21 March 2018 13:26 To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical In short David, because I am writing. If something caught my imagination I would make time for it. At the moment, like everyone else I suspect, I am busy. But I am still up for hard news of a palaeontological kind. Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm On 22/03/2018 12:15 AM, WEBSTER, DAVID S. wrote: > Why read Wikipedia when you can just as easily read Gans? Sceptical, fine, why? > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden > Sent: 21 March 2018 12:49 > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > > Wikpedia gives a fair picture of Gans's ideas, David. I'm sceptical. > > Andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > On 21/03/2018 8:24 PM, WEBSTER, DAVID S. wrote: >> As it happens there Gans offers a blog associated with the journal >> 'Chronicles of Love & Resentment' but his story start with his first >> book 'The origins of language'. Unfortunately, palaeontological >> evidence philosophical speculation and semiotics are blended >> throughout if with shifting focus. Not much directly on tool use if >> memory serves but that tends to follow on in one way or another from >> the rest. There was no expectation that anyone would need to digest >> the whole of the archive but it takes little effort to dip in and see >> what may catch your interest or ire and start from there. You might >> start your Gansian journey with 'The little big bang' (i.e. event of >> language) http://anthropoetics.ucla.edu/ap0501/gans-2/ >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden >> Sent: 21 March 2018 08:35 >> To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical >> >> Sorry David. You directed us to the home page of a journal. >> I am chuffed that you have actually read some of my work, but I think in general people on xmca don't usually go further than reading an article of a few thousand words if it is relevant to a discussion. A whole journal archive? >> >> But if you can direct me to the article which correlates palaeontological evidence and speech and tool origins (not philosophical speculation) I will be all over it. (I love philosophical speculation, but not on this question just now). >> >> Andy >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> Andy Blunden >> ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm >> On 21/03/2018 7:10 PM, WEBSTER, DAVID S. wrote: >>> Please forgive my impatience but I have already directed you all to a site where all the points you (collectively) have so far made, and all the one that you are ever likely to make on this subject, have been raised and comprehensively worked over by Gans and those many scholars who have engaged with him. The nub is the progressive transformation from analogue to digital required for information transfer between different systems operating at differing time scales. What Gans described in his 'originary hypothesis' is the same transformational operation that was used to teach deaf and alingual children at Zagorsk that involves taking the actions of appropriation (actions for life skills) and paring them down to a digital code - dactylic signing. For Andy: the Urpraxis, solidarity in your telling, arises at the originary scene of language (in Gans's telling) through the formation of a in-group out-group relation. >>> >>> Rant Over >>> >>> Ps its not that I agree with all Gans argues, But he does attempt to cover all bases where origin of language /human culture is concerned and in a non-sectarian/non-egotistical fashion and I therefor worth engaging with. No need to reinvent the wheel here. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>> [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden >>> Sent: 21 March 2018 05:39 >>> To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical >>> >>> I think that the thesis that *mime* (to generalise beyond >>> signing) is a plausible precursor to spoken language, and there is are substantial anthropological arguments to support that thesis. It seems to me that stone tools are precursors of tools more generally, and mime may be a precursor to spoken language, while the anatomical prerequisites to speech are evolving. How did speech become such a necessity that it drove anatomical change, and when/why did tool=making "take off" after stagnating for millennia? >>> >>> But I'm only guessing, as are you David! >>> >>> This is not a palaeontologists' list, so I guess I was over-optimistic to think I'd get a decisive answer to this. >>> >>> Andy >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Andy Blunden >>> ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm >>> On 21/03/2018 4:24 PM, David Kellogg wrote: >>>> I meant deaf people. There's a strong argument being made by deaf >>>> linguists--which I agree with--that holds that spoken languages are >>>> an offshoot of sign rather than the other way around. This sheds >>>> some light on Andy's problem: people developed spoken languages >>>> when they found they had other things to do with their hands, like hold tools. >>>> But I also think that pre-linguistic children are an important >>>> minority that prefers the visual channel, at least for taking in >>>> information, just as we adults who get most of our information through reading do. >>>> >>>> There are some scripts that are more visual and others that are >>>> more auditory--and within the same script we find elements that are >>>> more visual (Chinese radicals) and others that are more auditory >>>> (the phonetic components of Chinese characters). Even in English >>>> there are some elements that are visually salient but not >>>> auditorily salient (e.g. punctuation, variations in handwriting >>>> styles, fonts, >>>> etc.) and other elements that are more auditory (the International >>>> Phonetic Alphabet which is really English based and which has >>>> sought, for over a century, a perfect match between phonemes and >>>> graphemes). Phonics is based on the idea that English has evolved >>>> towards a one phoneme-one grapheme match; in fact, it has evolved away from it. >>>> >>>> David Kellogg >>>> Sangmyung University >>>> >>>> Recent Article in *Early Years* >>>> >>>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, >>>> and the child?s first interrogatives >>>> >>> > >>>> >>>> Free e-print available at: >>>> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 1:11 PM, Helena Worthen >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> David, what is the important minority that you?re referring to: >>>>> >>>>> "... the lowering of the vocal tract was phenomenal to language; >>>>> it was only an epiphenomenal circumstance which made the majority >>>>> of humans choose the vocal channel for language while an important >>>>> minority choose the visual channel? ? ? >>>>> >>>>> And how can we see what can be seen in the visual channel? >>>>> >>>>> Helena Worthen >>>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com >>>>> Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 >>>>> Blog US/ Viet Nam: >>>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>>>> skype: helena.worthen1 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Mar 21, 2018, at 8:37 AM, David Kellogg wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Andy has a knack for winkling brilliant insights out of early Vygotsky: >>>>> he >>>>>> remarks somewhere that "Ape, Primitive, Child: Studies in the >>>>>> History of Behavior," a book which I really didn't care much for, >>>>>> taught him that whenever we decide on some essential distinction >>>>>> between human and non-human behavior, we necessarily find >>>>>> rudiments of it in non-human behavior. To which I would only add >>>>>> that the circumstance that the rudiments of human behavior are >>>>>> linked to non-human behavior doesn't >>>>> make >>>>>> them indistinguishable. On the contrary, it is really only >>>>>> because human behaviors are distinct that we can speak of them >>>>>> being linked (we don't talk of air-breathing in humans as being >>>>>> linked to air-breathing in apes, because the process is really >>>>>> one and the same; we do speak of language >>>>> in >>>>>> humans as being linked to ape vocalizations precisely because >>>>>> they are distinct processes). If this is true of anthropogenetic >>>>>> phenomena like >>>>> free >>>>>> will, language and literacy, it's also true of their symptomatic >>>>>> epiphenomena, such as migration, culture, and literature. I don't >>>>>> agree with Andy that the lowering of the vocal tract was >>>>>> phenomenal to >>>>> language; >>>>>> it was only an epiphenomenal circumstance which made the majority >>>>>> of >>>>> humans >>>>>> choose the vocal channel for language while an important minority >>>>>> choose the visual channel, to which the majority again reverted >>>>>> once alphabets >>>>> and >>>>>> literacy were invented (again, an exercise of some rudimentary >>>>>> form of >>>>> free >>>>>> will). >>>>>> >>>>>> Compare migration along a seacoast with migration into a >>>>>> mountainous region. One requires no major change in productive >>>>>> relations, while the other probably does. Similar with migration >>>>>> along an East-West axis. This requires relatively little free >>>>>> will, as the climate does not change and many of the plants and animals which provide food are probably the same. >>>>> In >>>>>> contrast, migration along a North-South axis, which involves >>>>>> climate >>>>> change >>>>>> and corresponding adaptations, would require relatively more >>>>>> communal discussion, the process Andy calls collaborative >>>>>> decision making. I think that wandering out of Africa involved, >>>>>> on the one hand, migration along >>>>> the >>>>>> Nile and coastlines and, on the other, migration out of a >>>>>> mountainous region (the Rift Valley is pretty mountainous). But >>>>>> it also involved migration along a North-South axis and not an >>>>>> East-West one. Of course, staying put in Africa probably also >>>>>> involved collaborative decision >>>>> making >>>>>> over millenia, but we don't have any record of the decision as we >>>>>> do with leaving the home continent >>>>>> >>>>>> David Kellogg >>>>>> Sangmyung University >>>>>> >>>>>> Recent Article in *Early Years* >>>>>> >>>>>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, >>>>>> and the child?s first interrogatives >>>>>> >>>>> 7 >>>>>> 4 >>>>>> Free e-print available at: >>>>>> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 9:07 AM, Martin Packer >>>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> David, they wouldn't have known they were leaving their home >>>>>>> continent, would they? Some of them were just lucky enough to >>>>>>> wander in the >>>>> direction >>>>>>> of a land bridge, instead of into the ocean. Like any species >>>>>>> that >>>>> spreads >>>>>>> into a new geographical location, no conscious decision required. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Martin, who wandered into South America >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mar 19, 2018, at 7:50 AM, David Kellogg >>>>>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> Somewhere in the discussion of Monica and Fernando's article, >>>>>>>> Fernando >>>>>>> made >>>>>>>> the remark that history does not know "ifs". Similarly, Monica >>>>>>>> implied >>>>> at >>>>>>>> one point that large technological changes must be taken as >>>>>>>> given; they >>>>>>> are >>>>>>>> not something over which humans have control. But even if we >>>>>>>> accept the "Out of Africa" story which this article undermines, >>>>>>>> we are left >>>>> with >>>>>>>> the apparently conscious decision of early hominids to leave >>>>>>>> the home continent, something none of the other great apes ever determined upon. >>>>>>>> Vygotsky remarked that rudiments of all four forms of higher >>>>>>>> behavior--instinct, enculturation, creativity, and free will >>>>>>>> that is >>>>> none >>>>>>>> of these--appear even in infancy. So it appears that free will >>>>>>>> was >>>>> always >>>>>>>> part of anthropogenesis, and consequently that >>>>>>>> history--including >>>>> present >>>>>>>> history--knows nothing but ifs. We just don't see the others >>>>>>>> because we >>>>>>> are >>>>>>>> sitting in one of them. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> David Kellogg >>>>>>>> Sangmyung University >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Recent Article in *Early Years* >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s >>>>>>>> crises, and >>>>> the >>>>>>>> child?s first interrogatives >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1 >>>>>>>> 8 >>>>>>>> 7 >>>>>>>> 4> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Free e-print available at: >>>>>>>> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 7:33 AM, mike cole wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This synoptic story of the current state of research on human >>>>>>>>> origins >>>>>>> seems >>>>>>>>> relevant to the cultural-historical folks around. >>>>>>>>> mike >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> https://www.sapiens.org/evolution/human-evolution- >>>>>>>>> australia-asia/?utm_source=SAPIENS.org+Subscribers&utm_ >>>>>>>>> campaign=1b31c25316-Email+Blast+12.22.2017&utm_medium= >>>>>>>>> email&utm_term=0_18b7e41cd8-1b31c25316-199570669 >>>>>>>>> > From annalisa@unm.edu Wed Mar 21 09:56:04 2018 From: annalisa@unm.edu (Annalisa Aguilar) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2018 16:56:04 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] A new-ish learning platform that may be a way to save adjuncts? Message-ID: Hello Xmcars, A few days ago I learned about this new online learning platform "Academy Of Mine" I think that it portends what future learning might entail. It may be a way of bypassing the calcified learning patterns that no one seems to be able to escape, thanks to the neoliberalization of higher learning. This platform is also about doing business in education, but something about it seems more palatable than paying presidents and other administrators several hundred thousand dollar salaries to run a university. Here is an intro video for the platform, which I think is using wordpress for its online architecture. https://vimeo.com/92334633 [https://www.bing.com/th?id=OVP.rKgA__knRtrA5l2yfST4XAEsCo&pid=Api] All-In-One Learning-Management-System - Academy Of Mine vimeo.com If you?re going to be offering a course online you?ll need Learning Management System Software (LMS) for your online educational environment. But if you're an ... This might be a way in particular for adjuncts to "hold on" to their course material, and perhaps at some point monetize their courses in such a way they can create another income stream. I've not really thought this through, but I think this could be paradigm-changing because Academy of Mine seems to really address the technology difficulties for non-technical instructors and teachers. I am curious what you think. I am not affiliated with Academy of Mine, but I have an opportunity to use the platform and am just learnign about it. I was so impressed I thought I would let you all take a look. It might make possible courses that are hybird in nature, and it could possibly make experimental learning easier to set up, which would allow educators to do the things they have always known works with successful learning experiences, and just walk around the Maginot Line of university hegemonies. Kind regards, Annalisa From bferholt@gmail.com Wed Mar 21 10:55:57 2018 From: bferholt@gmail.com (Beth Ferholt) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2018 13:55:57 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: race/class and development In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes, thank you for making sure we all saw this -- added it to my classes as well, the linked Yale Child Study paper is also very useful for preschool teachers, Beth On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 2:33 PM, Jonathan Tudge wrote: > Thanks, Mike. > > This is indeed remarkably effective and, although not exactly unexpected, > needs to be widely shared. I spoke about it in my undergrad lifespan class > today. > > Cheers, > > Jon > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Jonathan Tudge > > Professor > Office: 155 Stone > > Our work on gratitude: http://morethanthanks.wp.uncg.edu/ > > A new book just published: Tudge, J. & Freitas, L. (Eds.) Developing > gratitude in children and adolescents > gratitude-in-children-and-adolescents-flyer.pdf>, > Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press > > My web site:http://www.uncg.edu/hdf/faculty/tudge > > Mailing address: > 248 Stone Building > Department of Human Development and Family Studies > PO Box 26170 > The University of North Carolina at Greensboro > Greensboro, NC 27402-6170 > USA > > phone (336) 223-6181 > fax (336) 334-5076 > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 12:42 PM, mike cole wrote: > > > This article from the NY Times seems important and the graphic is > unusually > > effective. Not the topic of the day on > > xmca but a topic for all seasons. > > mike > > > > https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/19/upshot/ > > race-class-white-and-black-men.html > > > -- Beth Ferholt Associate Professor Department of Early Childhood and Art Education Brooklyn College, City University of New York 2900 Bedford Avenue Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu Phone: (718) 951-5205 Fax: (718) 951-4816 From glassman.13@osu.edu Wed Mar 21 11:41:47 2018 From: glassman.13@osu.edu (Glassman, Michael) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2018 18:41:47 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: A new-ish learning platform that may be a way to save adjuncts? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF4719@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> Hi Annalisa and all others interested, Thanks for the link to the video, but I have to say it is pretty problematic. First it calls itself a learning management system when it really has nothing to do with learning. It is instead a course management system. So why do people use the phrase learning management systems - because companies that sell learning management systems want them to. The distinction is important because while all this hardware and software is really wowsa, we pretty much have little idea how to use it to create actual learning experiences. We just think it will happen because person A has knowledge, person B could use knowledge, transfer knowledge, done and done. I tend to think of the transfer model as being not very good as a teaching learning model. But there are a whole bunch of other issues which we are just beginning to explore like teacher presence in online situations, student relatedness (the four walls actually do play a part), individual agency, collective/collaborative agency, cognitive presences - the list just goes on. The guy on the boat (you have to watch the video) probably isn't going to be that successful. Who is going to be successful - why academy of mine will be! We went through this with xMOOCs. I'm old enough to remember when they were going to be the new model for education. I still have discussions with people who say MOOCs do good things. They reach all these people with information from experts. I ask, is there a good thing? People say, of course it's a good thing. I ask is there any evidence of this? They say well it's better than not reaching them with information. I ask are you sure. There actually is some evidence that it's not that good a thing from Participatory Action Research. I think one of the things we have to question ourselves about is why this sounds so good to us. This is not to say the Internet is not going to have stunning effects on the way we teach and learn. We need to do the hard work of figuring why and how. But this.... Michael -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Annalisa Aguilar Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2018 12:56 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] A new-ish learning platform that may be a way to save adjuncts? Hello Xmcars, A few days ago I learned about this new online learning platform "Academy Of Mine" I think that it portends what future learning might entail. It may be a way of bypassing the calcified learning patterns that no one seems to be able to escape, thanks to the neoliberalization of higher learning. This platform is also about doing business in education, but something about it seems more palatable than paying presidents and other administrators several hundred thousand dollar salaries to run a university. Here is an intro video for the platform, which I think is using wordpress for its online architecture. https://vimeo.com/92334633 [https://www.bing.com/th?id=OVP.rKgA__knRtrA5l2yfST4XAEsCo&pid=Api] All-In-One Learning-Management-System - Academy Of Mine vimeo.com If you're going to be offering a course online you'll need Learning Management System Software (LMS) for your online educational environment. But if you're an ... This might be a way in particular for adjuncts to "hold on" to their course material, and perhaps at some point monetize their courses in such a way they can create another income stream. I've not really thought this through, but I think this could be paradigm-changing because Academy of Mine seems to really address the technology difficulties for non-technical instructors and teachers. I am curious what you think. I am not affiliated with Academy of Mine, but I have an opportunity to use the platform and am just learnign about it. I was so impressed I thought I would let you all take a look. It might make possible courses that are hybird in nature, and it could possibly make experimental learning easier to set up, which would allow educators to do the things they have always known works with successful learning experiences, and just walk around the Maginot Line of university hegemonies. Kind regards, Annalisa From dkellogg60@gmail.com Wed Mar 21 14:27:06 2018 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2018 06:27:06 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical In-Reply-To: References: <030AF564-E49F-4D62-A7E8-1929B7295C28@gmail.com> <4bf362ed-1c89-ca1b-3646-e2da9a109fef@marxists.org> <8bec7884-a666-b1cd-9b36-a38b816ae514@marxists.org> <8714c5bb-063f-13c0-a430-e9d670019ccc@marxists.org> <0e61135e-a370-6807-79a2-5655df9805d9@marxists.org> Message-ID: One reason for Jews like me to be sceptical of Gans is his apparent Zionism (i.e. his insistence that there is a Jewish archaeological claim to the land of Israel, and is conflation of anti-Zionism and anti-semitism in the "Love and Resentment" blog). I am teaching phonetics and phonology this term, and one of the first things we learn is the difference between the highly musical instrument that we share with all of our conspecifics and the peculiar way in which we compose music for it (including the chords of notes, the intonational melodies, and the stress rhythms) which we share only with our speech community. The late, great Dmitri Hvorostovsky was charged with hubris for referring to his own mellow baritone as "the perfect instrument", but what he really meant was that we humans have evolved our music tastes around a universal, ideal, non-existent human voice (like Daniel Jones' cardinal vowels, which are not the vowels of any known language). But I am also sceptical of Andy's desire for archaeological evidence of language development--I agree with Gans that the question of the origins of language is solveable by other, more indirect means (e.g. studying child language and looking at how mitochondrial DNA changes correlate with language dispersion). But for that very reason I think the "Jewish" claim to Palestine is about as strong as the European claim to the Rift Valley in Kenya. David Kellogg Sangmyung University Recent Article in *Early Years* The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and the child?s first interrogatives Free e-print available at: https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 11:35 PM, WEBSTER, DAVID S. < d.s.webster@durham.ac.uk> wrote: > Andy, dear heart; busy will be tomorrow, hand excavating a Neolithic > ditch with mattock and trowel - there might even be some flints to find! > Academic writing is pure relaxation.. > > Regards > > David > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden > Sent: 21 March 2018 13:26 > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > > In short David, because I am writing. If something caught my imagination I > would make time for it. At the moment, like everyone else I suspect, I am > busy. But I am still up for hard news of a palaeontological kind. > > Andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > On 22/03/2018 12:15 AM, WEBSTER, DAVID S. wrote: > > Why read Wikipedia when you can just as easily read Gans? Sceptical, > fine, why? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden > > Sent: 21 March 2018 12:49 > > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > > > > Wikpedia gives a fair picture of Gans's ideas, David. I'm sceptical. > > > > Andy > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Andy Blunden > > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > > On 21/03/2018 8:24 PM, WEBSTER, DAVID S. wrote: > >> As it happens there Gans offers a blog associated with the journal > >> 'Chronicles of Love & Resentment' but his story start with his first > >> book 'The origins of language'. Unfortunately, palaeontological > >> evidence philosophical speculation and semiotics are blended > >> throughout if with shifting focus. Not much directly on tool use if > >> memory serves but that tends to follow on in one way or another from > >> the rest. There was no expectation that anyone would need to digest > >> the whole of the archive but it takes little effort to dip in and see > >> what may catch your interest or ire and start from there. You might > >> start your Gansian journey with 'The little big bang' (i.e. event of > >> language) http://anthropoetics.ucla.edu/ap0501/gans-2/ > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >> [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden > >> Sent: 21 March 2018 08:35 > >> To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > >> > >> Sorry David. You directed us to the home page of a journal. > >> I am chuffed that you have actually read some of my work, but I think > in general people on xmca don't usually go further than reading an article > of a few thousand words if it is relevant to a discussion. A whole journal > archive? > >> > >> But if you can direct me to the article which correlates > palaeontological evidence and speech and tool origins (not philosophical > speculation) I will be all over it. (I love philosophical speculation, but > not on this question just now). > >> > >> Andy > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------ > >> Andy Blunden > >> ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > >> On 21/03/2018 7:10 PM, WEBSTER, DAVID S. wrote: > >>> Please forgive my impatience but I have already directed you all to a > site where all the points you (collectively) have so far made, and all the > one that you are ever likely to make on this subject, have been raised and > comprehensively worked over by Gans and those many scholars who have > engaged with him. The nub is the progressive transformation from analogue > to digital required for information transfer between different systems > operating at differing time scales. What Gans described in his 'originary > hypothesis' is the same transformational operation that was used to teach > deaf and alingual children at Zagorsk that involves taking the actions of > appropriation (actions for life skills) and paring them down to a digital > code - dactylic signing. For Andy: the Urpraxis, solidarity in your > telling, arises at the originary scene of language (in Gans's telling) > through the formation of a in-group out-group relation. > >>> > >>> Rant Over > >>> > >>> Ps its not that I agree with all Gans argues, But he does attempt to > cover all bases where origin of language /human culture is concerned and in > a non-sectarian/non-egotistical fashion and I therefor worth engaging with. > No need to reinvent the wheel here. > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >>> [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden > >>> Sent: 21 March 2018 05:39 > >>> To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > >>> > >>> I think that the thesis that *mime* (to generalise beyond > >>> signing) is a plausible precursor to spoken language, and there is are > substantial anthropological arguments to support that thesis. It seems to > me that stone tools are precursors of tools more generally, and mime may be > a precursor to spoken language, while the anatomical prerequisites to > speech are evolving. How did speech become such a necessity that it drove > anatomical change, and when/why did tool=making "take off" after stagnating > for millennia? > >>> > >>> But I'm only guessing, as are you David! > >>> > >>> This is not a palaeontologists' list, so I guess I was over-optimistic > to think I'd get a decisive answer to this. > >>> > >>> Andy > >>> > >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ > >>> Andy Blunden > >>> ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > >>> On 21/03/2018 4:24 PM, David Kellogg wrote: > >>>> I meant deaf people. There's a strong argument being made by deaf > >>>> linguists--which I agree with--that holds that spoken languages are > >>>> an offshoot of sign rather than the other way around. This sheds > >>>> some light on Andy's problem: people developed spoken languages > >>>> when they found they had other things to do with their hands, like > hold tools. > >>>> But I also think that pre-linguistic children are an important > >>>> minority that prefers the visual channel, at least for taking in > >>>> information, just as we adults who get most of our information > through reading do. > >>>> > >>>> There are some scripts that are more visual and others that are > >>>> more auditory--and within the same script we find elements that are > >>>> more visual (Chinese radicals) and others that are more auditory > >>>> (the phonetic components of Chinese characters). Even in English > >>>> there are some elements that are visually salient but not > >>>> auditorily salient (e.g. punctuation, variations in handwriting > >>>> styles, fonts, > >>>> etc.) and other elements that are more auditory (the International > >>>> Phonetic Alphabet which is really English based and which has > >>>> sought, for over a century, a perfect match between phonemes and > >>>> graphemes). Phonics is based on the idea that English has evolved > >>>> towards a one phoneme-one grapheme match; in fact, it has evolved > away from it. > >>>> > >>>> David Kellogg > >>>> Sangmyung University > >>>> > >>>> Recent Article in *Early Years* > >>>> > >>>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, > >>>> and the child?s first interrogatives > >>>> >>>> > > >>>> > >>>> Free e-print available at: > >>>> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 1:11 PM, Helena Worthen > >>>> > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> David, what is the important minority that you?re referring to: > >>>>> > >>>>> "... the lowering of the vocal tract was phenomenal to language; > >>>>> it was only an epiphenomenal circumstance which made the majority > >>>>> of humans choose the vocal channel for language while an important > >>>>> minority choose the visual channel? ? ? > >>>>> > >>>>> And how can we see what can be seen in the visual channel? > >>>>> > >>>>> Helena Worthen > >>>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com > >>>>> Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 > >>>>> Blog US/ Viet Nam: > >>>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com > >>>>> skype: helena.worthen1 > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> On Mar 21, 2018, at 8:37 AM, David Kellogg > wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Andy has a knack for winkling brilliant insights out of early > Vygotsky: > >>>>> he > >>>>>> remarks somewhere that "Ape, Primitive, Child: Studies in the > >>>>>> History of Behavior," a book which I really didn't care much for, > >>>>>> taught him that whenever we decide on some essential distinction > >>>>>> between human and non-human behavior, we necessarily find > >>>>>> rudiments of it in non-human behavior. To which I would only add > >>>>>> that the circumstance that the rudiments of human behavior are > >>>>>> linked to non-human behavior doesn't > >>>>> make > >>>>>> them indistinguishable. On the contrary, it is really only > >>>>>> because human behaviors are distinct that we can speak of them > >>>>>> being linked (we don't talk of air-breathing in humans as being > >>>>>> linked to air-breathing in apes, because the process is really > >>>>>> one and the same; we do speak of language > >>>>> in > >>>>>> humans as being linked to ape vocalizations precisely because > >>>>>> they are distinct processes). If this is true of anthropogenetic > >>>>>> phenomena like > >>>>> free > >>>>>> will, language and literacy, it's also true of their symptomatic > >>>>>> epiphenomena, such as migration, culture, and literature. I don't > >>>>>> agree with Andy that the lowering of the vocal tract was > >>>>>> phenomenal to > >>>>> language; > >>>>>> it was only an epiphenomenal circumstance which made the majority > >>>>>> of > >>>>> humans > >>>>>> choose the vocal channel for language while an important minority > >>>>>> choose the visual channel, to which the majority again reverted > >>>>>> once alphabets > >>>>> and > >>>>>> literacy were invented (again, an exercise of some rudimentary > >>>>>> form of > >>>>> free > >>>>>> will). > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Compare migration along a seacoast with migration into a > >>>>>> mountainous region. One requires no major change in productive > >>>>>> relations, while the other probably does. Similar with migration > >>>>>> along an East-West axis. This requires relatively little free > >>>>>> will, as the climate does not change and many of the plants and > animals which provide food are probably the same. > >>>>> In > >>>>>> contrast, migration along a North-South axis, which involves > >>>>>> climate > >>>>> change > >>>>>> and corresponding adaptations, would require relatively more > >>>>>> communal discussion, the process Andy calls collaborative > >>>>>> decision making. I think that wandering out of Africa involved, > >>>>>> on the one hand, migration along > >>>>> the > >>>>>> Nile and coastlines and, on the other, migration out of a > >>>>>> mountainous region (the Rift Valley is pretty mountainous). But > >>>>>> it also involved migration along a North-South axis and not an > >>>>>> East-West one. Of course, staying put in Africa probably also > >>>>>> involved collaborative decision > >>>>> making > >>>>>> over millenia, but we don't have any record of the decision as we > >>>>>> do with leaving the home continent > >>>>>> > >>>>>> David Kellogg > >>>>>> Sangmyung University > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Recent Article in *Early Years* > >>>>>> > >>>>>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, > >>>>>> and the child?s first interrogatives > >>>>>> >>>>>> 7 > >>>>>> 4 > >>>>>> Free e-print available at: > >>>>>> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 9:07 AM, Martin Packer > >>>>>> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> David, they wouldn't have known they were leaving their home > >>>>>>> continent, would they? Some of them were just lucky enough to > >>>>>>> wander in the > >>>>> direction > >>>>>>> of a land bridge, instead of into the ocean. Like any species > >>>>>>> that > >>>>> spreads > >>>>>>> into a new geographical location, no conscious decision required. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Martin, who wandered into South America > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On Mar 19, 2018, at 7:50 AM, David Kellogg > >>>>>>>> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>> Somewhere in the discussion of Monica and Fernando's article, > >>>>>>>> Fernando > >>>>>>> made > >>>>>>>> the remark that history does not know "ifs". Similarly, Monica > >>>>>>>> implied > >>>>> at > >>>>>>>> one point that large technological changes must be taken as > >>>>>>>> given; they > >>>>>>> are > >>>>>>>> not something over which humans have control. But even if we > >>>>>>>> accept the "Out of Africa" story which this article undermines, > >>>>>>>> we are left > >>>>> with > >>>>>>>> the apparently conscious decision of early hominids to leave > >>>>>>>> the home continent, something none of the other great apes ever > determined upon. > >>>>>>>> Vygotsky remarked that rudiments of all four forms of higher > >>>>>>>> behavior--instinct, enculturation, creativity, and free will > >>>>>>>> that is > >>>>> none > >>>>>>>> of these--appear even in infancy. So it appears that free will > >>>>>>>> was > >>>>> always > >>>>>>>> part of anthropogenesis, and consequently that > >>>>>>>> history--including > >>>>> present > >>>>>>>> history--knows nothing but ifs. We just don't see the others > >>>>>>>> because we > >>>>>>> are > >>>>>>>> sitting in one of them. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> David Kellogg > >>>>>>>> Sangmyung University > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Recent Article in *Early Years* > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s > >>>>>>>> crises, and > >>>>> the > >>>>>>>> child?s first interrogatives > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 1 > >>>>>>>> 8 > >>>>>>>> 7 > >>>>>>>> 4> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Free e-print available at: > >>>>>>>> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 7:33 AM, mike cole > wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> This synoptic story of the current state of research on human > >>>>>>>>> origins > >>>>>>> seems > >>>>>>>>> relevant to the cultural-historical folks around. > >>>>>>>>> mike > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> https://www.sapiens.org/evolution/human-evolution- > >>>>>>>>> australia-asia/?utm_source=SAPIENS.org+Subscribers&utm_ > >>>>>>>>> campaign=1b31c25316-Email+Blast+12.22.2017&utm_medium= > >>>>>>>>> email&utm_term=0_18b7e41cd8-1b31c25316-199570669 > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > From pfeigenbaum@fordham.edu Thu Mar 22 07:52:06 2018 From: pfeigenbaum@fordham.edu (Peter Feigenbaum [Staff]) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2018 10:52:06 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical In-Reply-To: References: <030AF564-E49F-4D62-A7E8-1929B7295C28@gmail.com> <4bf362ed-1c89-ca1b-3646-e2da9a109fef@marxists.org> <8bec7884-a666-b1cd-9b36-a38b816ae514@marxists.org> <8714c5bb-063f-13c0-a430-e9d670019ccc@marxists.org> <0e61135e-a370-6807-79a2-5655df9805d9@marxists.org> Message-ID: Colleagues, Apropos this discussion, there is a major turning point in human evolution that is worthy of attention with respect to the development of language, and that is the development of the modern human supralaryngeal vocal tract. Back in the mid-to-late 1970s, Phillip Lieberman and his colleagues Crelin and Klatt did a series of investigations of an intact adult Neanderthal skull, with particular interest in the location of the hyoid bone (a free-floating bone in the throat to which muscles of the vocal tract are attached). Imprints of the inside of the skull provided evidence of the soft tissues that once existed there, and helped determine where the hyoid bone was located. By comparing this skull with that of an adult chimpanzee, an infant human, and an adult human, they came to a remarkable conclusion: the vocal tract configuration of the adult Neanderthal, the adult chimpanzee, and the newborn human were nearly identical. They all showed signs of the standard primate configuration, in which the vocal folds are located high up in the neck, almost behind the nose - producing vocal sounds that are very nasal. The researchers also inferred from the Neanderthal skull that Neanderthals lacked the phonetic ability to produce several vowels that we take for granted, and that are necessary for forming speech sounds into syllables. The one skull that did not even remotely fit this pattern was that of the modern *adult* human. Evidence shows that the morphology of the human supralaryngeal vocal tract changes significantly in the course of child development, the most notable change being the movement of the vocal folds from their standard position behind the nose to a much lower position in the throat. This transformation is most prominent in boys, whose voices continue to deepen until puberty. It has also been suggested that SIDS (Sudden Infant Death Syndrome), which peaks at three months of age, may be caused in part by the movement of the vocal chords down into the throat, where it can compromise an infant's breathing during REM sleep. One of the most interesting facets of this process - to me - is that the standard primate configuration has a built-in anti-choking mechanism that keeps food far away from the windpipe. In adult humans, this safety mechanism is completely dismantled as the vocal chords drop down in the throat - opening up the very real possibility that adult humans can choke to death. (That's why we all need to learn the Heimlich Maneuver - so we can save one another in an emergency!). You've got to assume that speech communication must have been exerting an awfully powerful environmental pressure in order to lead to the dismantling of such a highly evolved safety mechanism. If the transformation of the standard primate vocal system into the modern human vocal tract occurred roughly 150-200 thousand years ago, it would suggest that long verbal utterances, such as sentences and narratives, are fairly recent additions to the vocal repertoire. It would also suggest that, prior to this development, humans were communicating with one another using only single words or multi-word phrases. I ask myself whether those linguistic structures would have been sufficient for early humans to organize themselves so as to pull up stakes and and travel as a community - and to leave Africa 1.8 million years ago in the first migration. My answer? Could be. Food for thought, anyway. Cheers, Peter On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 5:27 PM, David Kellogg wrote: > One reason for Jews like me to be sceptical of Gans is his apparent Zionism > (i.e. his insistence that there is a Jewish archaeological claim to the > land of Israel, and is conflation of anti-Zionism and anti-semitism in the > "Love and Resentment" blog). > > I am teaching phonetics and phonology this term, and one of the first > things we learn is the difference between the highly musical instrument > that we share with all of our conspecifics and the peculiar way in which we > compose music for it (including the chords of notes, the intonational > melodies, and the stress rhythms) which we share only with our speech > community. The late, great Dmitri Hvorostovsky was charged with hubris for > referring to his own mellow baritone as "the perfect instrument", but what > he really meant was that we humans have evolved our music tastes around a > universal, ideal, non-existent human voice (like Daniel Jones' cardinal > vowels, which are not the vowels of any known language). > > But I am also sceptical of Andy's desire for archaeological evidence of > language development--I agree with Gans that the question of the origins of > language is solveable by other, more indirect means (e.g. studying child > language and looking at how mitochondrial DNA changes correlate with > language dispersion). But for that very reason I think the "Jewish" claim > to Palestine is about as strong as the European claim to the Rift Valley in > Kenya. > > > David Kellogg > Sangmyung University > > Recent Article in *Early Years* > > The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and the > child?s first interrogatives > 3A__www.tandfonline.com_doi_full_10.1080_09575146.2018.1431874&d=DwIFaQ&c= > aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r= > mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=MyLNeimQQ9r8Lh-_Ju96NFG_ > BYk0N6Vbl5GyLGtlIz8&s=ex_usYzJIJsMujJgQ0CnJhEpoF-8YohgyuvesdusBUk&e=> > > Free e-print available at: > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www. > tandfonline.com_eprint_6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW_full&d=DwIFaQ&c= > aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r= > mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=MyLNeimQQ9r8Lh-_Ju96NFG_ > BYk0N6Vbl5GyLGtlIz8&s=wRlB2z1oAEdkjZ5hutg4bNq4ULJGrN5atdmmVw28Ir4&e= > > > On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 11:35 PM, WEBSTER, DAVID S. < > d.s.webster@durham.ac.uk> wrote: > > > Andy, dear heart; busy will be tomorrow, hand excavating a Neolithic > > ditch with mattock and trowel - there might even be some flints to find! > > Academic writing is pure relaxation.. > > > > Regards > > > > David > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden > > Sent: 21 March 2018 13:26 > > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > > > > In short David, because I am writing. If something caught my imagination > I > > would make time for it. At the moment, like everyone else I suspect, I am > > busy. But I am still up for hard news of a palaeontological kind. > > > > Andy > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Andy Blunden > > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > > On 22/03/2018 12:15 AM, WEBSTER, DAVID S. wrote: > > > Why read Wikipedia when you can just as easily read Gans? Sceptical, > > fine, why? > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden > > > Sent: 21 March 2018 12:49 > > > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > > > > > > Wikpedia gives a fair picture of Gans's ideas, David. I'm sceptical. > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Andy Blunden > > > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > > > On 21/03/2018 8:24 PM, WEBSTER, DAVID S. wrote: > > >> As it happens there Gans offers a blog associated with the journal > > >> 'Chronicles of Love & Resentment' but his story start with his first > > >> book 'The origins of language'. Unfortunately, palaeontological > > >> evidence philosophical speculation and semiotics are blended > > >> throughout if with shifting focus. Not much directly on tool use if > > >> memory serves but that tends to follow on in one way or another from > > >> the rest. There was no expectation that anyone would need to digest > > >> the whole of the archive but it takes little effort to dip in and see > > >> what may catch your interest or ire and start from there. You might > > >> start your Gansian journey with 'The little big bang' (i.e. event of > > >> language) https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__ > anthropoetics.ucla.edu_ap0501_gans-2D2_&d=DwIFaQ&c= > aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r= > mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=MyLNeimQQ9r8Lh-_Ju96NFG_ > BYk0N6Vbl5GyLGtlIz8&s=beDbESV2n58BqEwkyS93Kx-8wP6MF9SD3bxXpLLZxWU&e= > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > >> [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden > > >> Sent: 21 March 2018 08:35 > > >> To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > > >> > > >> Sorry David. You directed us to the home page of a journal. > > >> I am chuffed that you have actually read some of my work, but I think > > in general people on xmca don't usually go further than reading an > article > > of a few thousand words if it is relevant to a discussion. A whole > journal > > archive? > > >> > > >> But if you can direct me to the article which correlates > > palaeontological evidence and speech and tool origins (not philosophical > > speculation) I will be all over it. (I love philosophical speculation, > but > > not on this question just now). > > >> > > >> Andy > > >> > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------ > > >> Andy Blunden > > >> ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > > >> On 21/03/2018 7:10 PM, WEBSTER, DAVID S. wrote: > > >>> Please forgive my impatience but I have already directed you all to a > > site where all the points you (collectively) have so far made, and all > the > > one that you are ever likely to make on this subject, have been raised > and > > comprehensively worked over by Gans and those many scholars who have > > engaged with him. The nub is the progressive transformation from analogue > > to digital required for information transfer between different systems > > operating at differing time scales. What Gans described in his 'originary > > hypothesis' is the same transformational operation that was used to > teach > > deaf and alingual children at Zagorsk that involves taking the actions of > > appropriation (actions for life skills) and paring them down to a digital > > code - dactylic signing. For Andy: the Urpraxis, solidarity in your > > telling, arises at the originary scene of language (in Gans's telling) > > through the formation of a in-group out-group relation. > > >>> > > >>> Rant Over > > >>> > > >>> Ps its not that I agree with all Gans argues, But he does attempt to > > cover all bases where origin of language /human culture is concerned and > in > > a non-sectarian/non-egotistical fashion and I therefor worth engaging > with. > > No need to reinvent the wheel here. > > >>> > > >>> -----Original Message----- > > >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > >>> [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden > > >>> Sent: 21 March 2018 05:39 > > >>> To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > > >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > > >>> > > >>> I think that the thesis that *mime* (to generalise beyond > > >>> signing) is a plausible precursor to spoken language, and there is > are > > substantial anthropological arguments to support that thesis. It seems to > > me that stone tools are precursors of tools more generally, and mime may > be > > a precursor to spoken language, while the anatomical prerequisites to > > speech are evolving. How did speech become such a necessity that it drove > > anatomical change, and when/why did tool=making "take off" after > stagnating > > for millennia? > > >>> > > >>> But I'm only guessing, as are you David! > > >>> > > >>> This is not a palaeontologists' list, so I guess I was > over-optimistic > > to think I'd get a decisive answer to this. > > >>> > > >>> Andy > > >>> > > >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ > > >>> Andy Blunden > > >>> ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > > >>> On 21/03/2018 4:24 PM, David Kellogg wrote: > > >>>> I meant deaf people. There's a strong argument being made by deaf > > >>>> linguists--which I agree with--that holds that spoken languages are > > >>>> an offshoot of sign rather than the other way around. This sheds > > >>>> some light on Andy's problem: people developed spoken languages > > >>>> when they found they had other things to do with their hands, like > > hold tools. > > >>>> But I also think that pre-linguistic children are an important > > >>>> minority that prefers the visual channel, at least for taking in > > >>>> information, just as we adults who get most of our information > > through reading do. > > >>>> > > >>>> There are some scripts that are more visual and others that are > > >>>> more auditory--and within the same script we find elements that are > > >>>> more visual (Chinese radicals) and others that are more auditory > > >>>> (the phonetic components of Chinese characters). Even in English > > >>>> there are some elements that are visually salient but not > > >>>> auditorily salient (e.g. punctuation, variations in handwriting > > >>>> styles, fonts, > > >>>> etc.) and other elements that are more auditory (the International > > >>>> Phonetic Alphabet which is really English based and which has > > >>>> sought, for over a century, a perfect match between phonemes and > > >>>> graphemes). Phonics is based on the idea that English has evolved > > >>>> towards a one phoneme-one grapheme match; in fact, it has evolved > > away from it. > > >>>> > > >>>> David Kellogg > > >>>> Sangmyung University > > >>>> > > >>>> Recent Article in *Early Years* > > >>>> > > >>>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, > > >>>> and the child?s first interrogatives > > >>>> 3A__www.tandfonline.com_doi_full_10.1080_09575146.2018.1431874&d=DwIFaQ&c= > aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r= > mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=MyLNeimQQ9r8Lh-_Ju96NFG_ > BYk0N6Vbl5GyLGtlIz8&s=ex_usYzJIJsMujJgQ0CnJhEpoF-8YohgyuvesdusBUk&e= > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > >>>> Free e-print available at: > > >>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www. > tandfonline.com_eprint_6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW_full&d=DwIFaQ&c= > aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r= > mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=MyLNeimQQ9r8Lh-_Ju96NFG_ > BYk0N6Vbl5GyLGtlIz8&s=wRlB2z1oAEdkjZ5hutg4bNq4ULJGrN5atdmmVw28Ir4&e= > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 1:11 PM, Helena Worthen > > >>>> > > >>>> wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>>> David, what is the important minority that you?re referring to: > > >>>>> > > >>>>> "... the lowering of the vocal tract was phenomenal to language; > > >>>>> it was only an epiphenomenal circumstance which made the majority > > >>>>> of humans choose the vocal channel for language while an important > > >>>>> minority choose the visual channel? ? ? > > >>>>> > > >>>>> And how can we see what can be seen in the visual channel? > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Helena Worthen > > >>>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com > > >>>>> Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 > > >>>>> Blog US/ Viet Nam: > > >>>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > >>>>> skype: helena.worthen1 > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> On Mar 21, 2018, at 8:37 AM, David Kellogg > > wrote: > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Andy has a knack for winkling brilliant insights out of early > > Vygotsky: > > >>>>> he > > >>>>>> remarks somewhere that "Ape, Primitive, Child: Studies in the > > >>>>>> History of Behavior," a book which I really didn't care much for, > > >>>>>> taught him that whenever we decide on some essential distinction > > >>>>>> between human and non-human behavior, we necessarily find > > >>>>>> rudiments of it in non-human behavior. To which I would only add > > >>>>>> that the circumstance that the rudiments of human behavior are > > >>>>>> linked to non-human behavior doesn't > > >>>>> make > > >>>>>> them indistinguishable. On the contrary, it is really only > > >>>>>> because human behaviors are distinct that we can speak of them > > >>>>>> being linked (we don't talk of air-breathing in humans as being > > >>>>>> linked to air-breathing in apes, because the process is really > > >>>>>> one and the same; we do speak of language > > >>>>> in > > >>>>>> humans as being linked to ape vocalizations precisely because > > >>>>>> they are distinct processes). If this is true of anthropogenetic > > >>>>>> phenomena like > > >>>>> free > > >>>>>> will, language and literacy, it's also true of their symptomatic > > >>>>>> epiphenomena, such as migration, culture, and literature. I don't > > >>>>>> agree with Andy that the lowering of the vocal tract was > > >>>>>> phenomenal to > > >>>>> language; > > >>>>>> it was only an epiphenomenal circumstance which made the majority > > >>>>>> of > > >>>>> humans > > >>>>>> choose the vocal channel for language while an important minority > > >>>>>> choose the visual channel, to which the majority again reverted > > >>>>>> once alphabets > > >>>>> and > > >>>>>> literacy were invented (again, an exercise of some rudimentary > > >>>>>> form of > > >>>>> free > > >>>>>> will). > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Compare migration along a seacoast with migration into a > > >>>>>> mountainous region. One requires no major change in productive > > >>>>>> relations, while the other probably does. Similar with migration > > >>>>>> along an East-West axis. This requires relatively little free > > >>>>>> will, as the climate does not change and many of the plants and > > animals which provide food are probably the same. > > >>>>> In > > >>>>>> contrast, migration along a North-South axis, which involves > > >>>>>> climate > > >>>>> change > > >>>>>> and corresponding adaptations, would require relatively more > > >>>>>> communal discussion, the process Andy calls collaborative > > >>>>>> decision making. I think that wandering out of Africa involved, > > >>>>>> on the one hand, migration along > > >>>>> the > > >>>>>> Nile and coastlines and, on the other, migration out of a > > >>>>>> mountainous region (the Rift Valley is pretty mountainous). But > > >>>>>> it also involved migration along a North-South axis and not an > > >>>>>> East-West one. Of course, staying put in Africa probably also > > >>>>>> involved collaborative decision > > >>>>> making > > >>>>>> over millenia, but we don't have any record of the decision as we > > >>>>>> do with leaving the home continent > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> David Kellogg > > >>>>>> Sangmyung University > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Recent Article in *Early Years* > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, > > >>>>>> and the child?s first interrogatives > > >>>>>> 3A__www.tandfonline.com_doi_full_10.1080_09575146.2018.14318&d=DwIFaQ&c= > aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r= > mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=MyLNeimQQ9r8Lh-_Ju96NFG_ > BYk0N6Vbl5GyLGtlIz8&s=LJaYJBkDZO1hWul3UfpQ0z0FSBWjdUR6WUhWEeVO908&e= > > >>>>>> 7 > > >>>>>> 4 > > >>>>>> Free e-print available at: > > >>>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www. > tandfonline.com_eprint_6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW_full&d=DwIFaQ&c= > aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r= > mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=MyLNeimQQ9r8Lh-_Ju96NFG_ > BYk0N6Vbl5GyLGtlIz8&s=wRlB2z1oAEdkjZ5hutg4bNq4ULJGrN5atdmmVw28Ir4&e= > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 9:07 AM, Martin Packer > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>>> David, they wouldn't have known they were leaving their home > > >>>>>>> continent, would they? Some of them were just lucky enough to > > >>>>>>> wander in the > > >>>>> direction > > >>>>>>> of a land bridge, instead of into the ocean. Like any species > > >>>>>>> that > > >>>>> spreads > > >>>>>>> into a new geographical location, no conscious decision required. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Martin, who wandered into South America > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> On Mar 19, 2018, at 7:50 AM, David Kellogg > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>>>> Somewhere in the discussion of Monica and Fernando's article, > > >>>>>>>> Fernando > > >>>>>>> made > > >>>>>>>> the remark that history does not know "ifs". Similarly, Monica > > >>>>>>>> implied > > >>>>> at > > >>>>>>>> one point that large technological changes must be taken as > > >>>>>>>> given; they > > >>>>>>> are > > >>>>>>>> not something over which humans have control. But even if we > > >>>>>>>> accept the "Out of Africa" story which this article undermines, > > >>>>>>>> we are left > > >>>>> with > > >>>>>>>> the apparently conscious decision of early hominids to leave > > >>>>>>>> the home continent, something none of the other great apes ever > > determined upon. > > >>>>>>>> Vygotsky remarked that rudiments of all four forms of higher > > >>>>>>>> behavior--instinct, enculturation, creativity, and free will > > >>>>>>>> that is > > >>>>> none > > >>>>>>>> of these--appear even in infancy. So it appears that free will > > >>>>>>>> was > > >>>>> always > > >>>>>>>> part of anthropogenesis, and consequently that > > >>>>>>>> history--including > > >>>>> present > > >>>>>>>> history--knows nothing but ifs. We just don't see the others > > >>>>>>>> because we > > >>>>>>> are > > >>>>>>>> sitting in one of them. > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> David Kellogg > > >>>>>>>> Sangmyung University > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Recent Article in *Early Years* > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s > > >>>>>>>> crises, and > > >>>>> the > > >>>>>>>> child?s first interrogatives > > >>>>>>>> 3A__www.tandfonline.com_doi_full_10.1080_09575146.2018.143&d=DwIFaQ&c= > aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r= > mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=MyLNeimQQ9r8Lh-_Ju96NFG_ > BYk0N6Vbl5GyLGtlIz8&s=2gUdDbJLFRCjt0etkBXOCsBzJDHsHK3iuAzNltz73es&e= > > >>>>>>>> 1 > > >>>>>>>> 8 > > >>>>>>>> 7 > > >>>>>>>> 4> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Free e-print available at: > > >>>>>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www. > tandfonline.com_eprint_6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW_full&d=DwIFaQ&c= > aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r= > mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=MyLNeimQQ9r8Lh-_Ju96NFG_ > BYk0N6Vbl5GyLGtlIz8&s=wRlB2z1oAEdkjZ5hutg4bNq4ULJGrN5atdmmVw28Ir4&e= > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 7:33 AM, mike cole > > wrote: > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> This synoptic story of the current state of research on human > > >>>>>>>>> origins > > >>>>>>> seems > > >>>>>>>>> relevant to the cultural-historical folks around. > > >>>>>>>>> mike > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www. > sapiens.org_evolution_human-2Devolution-2D&d=DwIFaQ&c= > aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r= > mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=MyLNeimQQ9r8Lh-_Ju96NFG_ > BYk0N6Vbl5GyLGtlIz8&s=iVeSOjjGdN3doQjgHvAaGuS9-Pip6rK7BcaBXI_D1t8&e= > > >>>>>>>>> australia-asia/?utm_source=SAPIENS.org+Subscribers&utm_ > > >>>>>>>>> campaign=1b31c25316-Email+Blast+12.22.2017&utm_medium= > > >>>>>>>>> email&utm_term=0_18b7e41cd8-1b31c25316-199570669 > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > -- Peter Feigenbaum, Ph.D. Director, Office of Institutional Research Fordham University Thebaud Hall-202 Bronx, NY 10458 Phone: (718) 817-2243 Fax: (718) 817-3817 email: pfeigenbaum@fordham.edu From jgregmcverry@gmail.com Thu Mar 22 08:21:14 2018 From: jgregmcverry@gmail.com (Greg Mcverry) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2018 15:21:14 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: A new-ish learning platform that may be a way to save adjuncts? In-Reply-To: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF4719@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> References: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF4719@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> Message-ID: Advocating for ignorance always seems to be a strange position to take. Though it is a position those in power have often adopted through out history. I would also push back that we have no idea how to to make learning happen in these environments. What we might say is we have no way how to make learning happen in these ways that is both scalable and profitable with hockey stick growth. There are many folks in Open Source communities who have long created classes nothing like MOOCs. What is StackOverflow but a large (and sometimes rude) learning community? Cormier's #Rhizo classes, #DS106, #walkmyworld are all small scale classes in the education and art spaces that have been researched (though more comparative case studies and autoenthographies). I also think we need to stop the false distinction between our offline and offline learning environments. I think part of the reason hybrid learning comes out favorably in meta-analysis isn't just because of the role of the instructor but the computer aided yet tactile environment is an interesting artifacts of tools. Finally the only way an app would help adjuncts would be if it had two buttons, "Pay me a living wage" and "create a "Tenure Track Position" On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 2:44 PM Glassman, Michael wrote: > Hi Annalisa and all others interested, > > Thanks for the link to the video, but I have to say it is pretty > problematic. First it calls itself a learning management system when it > really has nothing to do with learning. It is instead a course management > system. So why do people use the phrase learning management systems - > because companies that sell learning management systems want them to. > > The distinction is important because while all this hardware and software > is really wowsa, we pretty much have little idea how to use it to create > actual learning experiences. We just think it will happen because person A > has knowledge, person B could use knowledge, transfer knowledge, done and > done. I tend to think of the transfer model as being not very good as a > teaching learning model. But there are a whole bunch of other issues which > we are just beginning to explore like teacher presence in online > situations, student relatedness (the four walls actually do play a part), > individual agency, collective/collaborative agency, cognitive presences - > the list just goes on. The guy on the boat (you have to watch the video) > probably isn't going to be that successful. Who is going to be successful > - why academy of mine will be! > > We went through this with xMOOCs. I'm old enough to remember when they > were going to be the new model for education. I still have discussions > with people who say MOOCs do good things. They reach all these people with > information from experts. I ask, is there a good thing? People say, of > course it's a good thing. I ask is there any evidence of this? They say > well it's better than not reaching them with information. I ask are you > sure. There actually is some evidence that it's not that good a thing from > Participatory Action Research. I think one of the things we have to > question ourselves about is why this sounds so good to us. > > This is not to say the Internet is not going to have stunning effects on > the way we teach and learn. We need to do the hard work of figuring why > and how. But this.... > > > Michael > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto: > xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Annalisa Aguilar > Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2018 12:56 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] A new-ish learning platform that may be a way to save > adjuncts? > > Hello Xmcars, > > > A few days ago I learned about this new online learning platform "Academy > Of Mine" > > > I think that it portends what future learning might entail. It may be a > way of bypassing the calcified learning patterns that no one seems to be > able to escape, thanks to the neoliberalization of higher learning. > > > This platform is also about doing business in education, but something > about it seems more palatable than paying presidents and other > administrators several hundred thousand dollar salaries to run a university. > > > Here is an intro video for the platform, which I think is using wordpress > for its online architecture. > > https://vimeo.com/92334633 > > [https://www.bing.com/th?id=OVP.rKgA__knRtrA5l2yfST4XAEsCo&pid=Api]< > https://vimeo.com/92334633> > > All-In-One Learning-Management-System - Academy Of Mine< > https://vimeo.com/92334633> vimeo.com If you're going to be offering a > course online you'll need Learning Management System Software (LMS) for > your online educational environment. But if you're an ... > > This might be a way in particular for adjuncts to "hold on" to their > course material, and perhaps at some point monetize their courses in such a > way they can create another income stream. > > > I've not really thought this through, but I think this could be > paradigm-changing because Academy of Mine seems to really address the > technology difficulties for non-technical instructors and teachers. > > > I am curious what you think. > > > I am not affiliated with Academy of Mine, but I have an opportunity to use > the platform and am just learnign about it. I was so impressed I thought I > would let you all take a look. > > > It might make possible courses that are hybird in nature, and it could > possibly make experimental learning easier to set up, which would allow > educators to do the things they have always known works with successful > learning experiences, and just walk around the Maginot Line of university > hegemonies. > > > Kind regards, > > > Annalisa > > > From smago@uga.edu Thu Mar 22 09:42:25 2018 From: smago@uga.edu (Peter Smagorinsky) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2018 16:42:25 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Reframing Anti-Bullying Education Message-ID: Dear colleagues, I'm pleased to announce the formal release of the visit to the JoLLE Winter Conference by U.S. Civil Rights icon Elizabeth Eckford, one of the Little Rock 9. Here she is at age 15 being harassed by anti-integrationists: [cid:image002.jpg@01D3C1DB.3FDC30F0] https://youtu.be/BxLJiFyZtLo [https://i.ytimg.com/vi/BxLJiFyZtLo/hqdefault.jpg] Reframing Anti-Bullying Education youtu.be The Journal of Language and Literacy Education (JoLLE) presents Reframing Anti-Bullying Education: Leveraging History and Prose to Increase Student Awareness... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 9820 bytes Desc: image002.jpg Url : http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20180322/465ca65e/attachment.jpg From dkellogg60@gmail.com Thu Mar 22 14:39:58 2018 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2018 06:39:58 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical In-Reply-To: References: <030AF564-E49F-4D62-A7E8-1929B7295C28@gmail.com> <4bf362ed-1c89-ca1b-3646-e2da9a109fef@marxists.org> <8bec7884-a666-b1cd-9b36-a38b816ae514@marxists.org> <8714c5bb-063f-13c0-a430-e9d670019ccc@marxists.org> <0e61135e-a370-6807-79a2-5655df9805d9@marxists.org> Message-ID: (Welcome back, Peter--great to see you back in form. I still remember your fine presentation at ISCAR last summer, and the dinner which followed, when we both ignored the food and stuffed our mouths with words instead....) My grandma always said that God made mouths for eating and not for talking. I was still chewing over your last one--the one about the relationship between unconscious forms of activity like speaking and their more conscious and deliberate ones (like speaking a second or third language) when yesterday, Jiwon, one of my freshmen, tried to account for the fact that Korean (which is an isolate apparently unrelated to other languages) has the bilabial nasal sonarant /m/ for mother and the bilabial stop /p/ for father just as English does. She came up with a version of Vygotsky's theory of how gesture arises in the child: i.e. it is not that mothers teach children or that children teach mother but rather some random event in the environment is exapted for the purpose of communication. This seemed a perfectly relevant reply to your query, and I am passing it on to you. Please remember that it is the work of a brillian young aspiring liinguist who is not yet twenty years old. The problem with assuming that the evolutionary advantags conferred by communication "outweighed" or "overcame" the disadvantages of choking on your dinner is something I call "innaissance": a built-in methodological innocence of its own bias to innatism. For example, the last Lieberman paper I read (circa 1991, when I first started taking Vygotsky seriously) argued that early man must have had universal grammar as soon as stone tools were being sliced from long blocks of flint instead of made piecemeal. This strikes me as far fetched: stone is stone, and sound waves are not. I think this far-fetchedness comes from a dogmatic interpretation of evolution, one I would associate with the "Selfish Gene" and Dawkins: the only thing that could have produced the idea of tools for tools is a genetic predisposition in that direction, which would also predispose us to making signs for signs. I think this will also be true of the archaeological evidence that Andy is pining for: whatever we find, it will be biased towards a hereditarian explanation. The fact that children left alone can create something that looks very much like language seems far more significant to me (see my article in Early Years, referenced below). I think Darwin himself would have preferred a less dogmatic interpretation of his theory, one I would associate with exaptation and Gould. In this interpretation it is indeed possible for mutations that are "non-adaptative" and inexpedient to last a very long time, and this is what allows truly complex structures to emerge. This is true at the level of phylogenesis--it is how a swim bladder evolves into a lung, or a light sensitive nerve ending becomes an eye. But it is far more true at the level of sociogenesis, when practices that are currently inexpedient for survival turn out to have some other purpose that people prize and may or may not have affordances for a better world. One example would be female genital mutilation, scarification, and infibulation: it's very inexpedient in terms of sexual pleasure and even survival, but in Sudan where I lived people prized it as a kind of rite of passage, demonstrating the ability and willingness to endure childbirth (the female equivalent of being a boy scout). In our own society, for the last hundred years or so, the ability to reproduce has begun to occur earlier and earlier (because of good diet) while the ability to actually produce gets later and later (because of education). This isn't adaptative as society is currently constituted, for the same reason that Facebook is not. But it COULD be highly adaptative in some better society than the one we live in, and that's how dreams come true. Maybe even evolutionary history is composed of "ifs"? David Kellogg Sangmyung University Recent Article in *Early Years* The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and the child?s first interrogatives Free e-print available at: https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 11:52 PM, Peter Feigenbaum [Staff] < pfeigenbaum@fordham.edu> wrote: > Colleagues, > > Apropos this discussion, there is a major turning point in human evolution > that is worthy of attention with respect to the development of language, > and that is the development of the modern human supralaryngeal vocal tract. > > Back in the mid-to-late 1970s, Phillip Lieberman and his colleagues Crelin > and Klatt did a series of investigations of an intact adult Neanderthal > skull, with particular interest in the location of the hyoid bone (a > free-floating bone in the throat to which muscles of the vocal tract are > attached). Imprints of the inside of the skull provided evidence of the > soft tissues that once existed there, and helped determine where the hyoid > bone was located. By comparing this skull with that of an adult chimpanzee, > an infant human, and an adult human, they came to a remarkable conclusion: > the vocal tract configuration of the adult Neanderthal, the adult > chimpanzee, and the newborn human were nearly identical. They all showed > signs of the standard primate configuration, in which the vocal folds are > located high up in the neck, almost behind the nose - producing vocal > sounds that are very nasal. The researchers also inferred from the > Neanderthal skull that Neanderthals lacked the phonetic ability to produce > several vowels that we take for granted, and that are necessary for forming > speech sounds into syllables. The one skull that did not even remotely fit > this pattern was that of the modern *adult* human. > > Evidence shows that the morphology of the human supralaryngeal vocal tract > changes significantly in the course of child development, the most notable > change being the movement of the vocal folds from their standard position > behind the nose to a much lower position in the throat. This transformation > is most prominent in boys, whose voices continue to deepen until puberty. > It has also been suggested that SIDS (Sudden Infant Death Syndrome), which > peaks at three months of age, may be caused in part by the movement of the > vocal chords down into the throat, where it can compromise an infant's > breathing during REM sleep. One of the most interesting facets of this > process - to me - is that the standard primate configuration has a built-in > anti-choking mechanism that keeps food far away from the windpipe. In adult > humans, this safety mechanism is completely dismantled as the vocal chords > drop down in the throat - opening up the very real possibility that adult > humans can choke to death. (That's why we all need to learn the Heimlich > Maneuver - so we can save one another in an emergency!). You've got to > assume that speech communication must have been exerting an awfully > powerful environmental pressure in order to lead to the dismantling of such > a highly evolved safety mechanism. > > If the transformation of the standard primate vocal system into the modern > human vocal tract occurred roughly 150-200 thousand years ago, it would > suggest that long verbal utterances, such as sentences and narratives, are > fairly recent additions to the vocal repertoire. It would also suggest > that, prior to this development, humans were communicating with one another > using only single words or multi-word phrases. I ask myself whether those > linguistic structures would have been sufficient for early humans to > organize themselves so as to pull up stakes and and travel as a community - > and to leave Africa 1.8 million years ago in the first migration. My > answer? Could be. > > Food for thought, anyway. > > Cheers, > Peter > > On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 5:27 PM, David Kellogg > wrote: > > > One reason for Jews like me to be sceptical of Gans is his apparent > Zionism > > (i.e. his insistence that there is a Jewish archaeological claim to the > > land of Israel, and is conflation of anti-Zionism and anti-semitism in > the > > "Love and Resentment" blog). > > > > I am teaching phonetics and phonology this term, and one of the first > > things we learn is the difference between the highly musical instrument > > that we share with all of our conspecifics and the peculiar way in which > we > > compose music for it (including the chords of notes, the intonational > > melodies, and the stress rhythms) which we share only with our speech > > community. The late, great Dmitri Hvorostovsky was charged with hubris > for > > referring to his own mellow baritone as "the perfect instrument", but > what > > he really meant was that we humans have evolved our music tastes around a > > universal, ideal, non-existent human voice (like Daniel Jones' cardinal > > vowels, which are not the vowels of any known language). > > > > But I am also sceptical of Andy's desire for archaeological evidence of > > language development--I agree with Gans that the question of the origins > of > > language is solveable by other, more indirect means (e.g. studying child > > language and looking at how mitochondrial DNA changes correlate with > > language dispersion). But for that very reason I think the "Jewish" claim > > to Palestine is about as strong as the European claim to the Rift Valley > in > > Kenya. > > > > > > David Kellogg > > Sangmyung University > > > > Recent Article in *Early Years* > > > > The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and the > > child?s first interrogatives > > > 3A__www.tandfonline.com_doi_full_10.1080_09575146.2018. > 1431874&d=DwIFaQ&c= > > aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r= > > mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=MyLNeimQQ9r8Lh-_Ju96NFG_ > > BYk0N6Vbl5GyLGtlIz8&s=ex_usYzJIJsMujJgQ0CnJhEpoF-8YohgyuvesdusBUk&e=> > > > > Free e-print available at: > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www. > > tandfonline.com_eprint_6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW_full&d=DwIFaQ&c= > > aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r= > > mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=MyLNeimQQ9r8Lh-_Ju96NFG_ > > BYk0N6Vbl5GyLGtlIz8&s=wRlB2z1oAEdkjZ5hutg4bNq4ULJGrN5atdmmVw28Ir4&e= > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 11:35 PM, WEBSTER, DAVID S. < > > d.s.webster@durham.ac.uk> wrote: > > > > > Andy, dear heart; busy will be tomorrow, hand excavating a Neolithic > > > ditch with mattock and trowel - there might even be some flints to > find! > > > Academic writing is pure relaxation.. > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > David > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden > > > Sent: 21 March 2018 13:26 > > > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > > > > > > In short David, because I am writing. If something caught my > imagination > > I > > > would make time for it. At the moment, like everyone else I suspect, I > am > > > busy. But I am still up for hard news of a palaeontological kind. > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Andy Blunden > > > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > > > On 22/03/2018 12:15 AM, WEBSTER, DAVID S. wrote: > > > > Why read Wikipedia when you can just as easily read Gans? Sceptical, > > > fine, why? > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden > > > > Sent: 21 March 2018 12:49 > > > > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > > > > > > > > Wikpedia gives a fair picture of Gans's ideas, David. I'm sceptical. > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > Andy Blunden > > > > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > > > > On 21/03/2018 8:24 PM, WEBSTER, DAVID S. wrote: > > > >> As it happens there Gans offers a blog associated with the journal > > > >> 'Chronicles of Love & Resentment' but his story start with his > first > > > >> book 'The origins of language'. Unfortunately, palaeontological > > > >> evidence philosophical speculation and semiotics are blended > > > >> throughout if with shifting focus. Not much directly on tool use if > > > >> memory serves but that tends to follow on in one way or another > from > > > >> the rest. There was no expectation that anyone would need to digest > > > >> the whole of the archive but it takes little effort to dip in and > see > > > >> what may catch your interest or ire and start from there. You might > > > >> start your Gansian journey with 'The little big bang' (i.e. event of > > > >> language) https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__ > > anthropoetics.ucla.edu_ap0501_gans-2D2_&d=DwIFaQ&c= > > aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r= > > mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=MyLNeimQQ9r8Lh-_Ju96NFG_ > > BYk0N6Vbl5GyLGtlIz8&s=beDbESV2n58BqEwkyS93Kx-8wP6MF9SD3bxXpLLZxWU&e= > > > >> > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > >> [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden > > > >> Sent: 21 March 2018 08:35 > > > >> To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > > > >> > > > >> Sorry David. You directed us to the home page of a journal. > > > >> I am chuffed that you have actually read some of my work, but I > think > > > in general people on xmca don't usually go further than reading an > > article > > > of a few thousand words if it is relevant to a discussion. A whole > > journal > > > archive? > > > >> > > > >> But if you can direct me to the article which correlates > > > palaeontological evidence and speech and tool origins (not > philosophical > > > speculation) I will be all over it. (I love philosophical speculation, > > but > > > not on this question just now). > > > >> > > > >> Andy > > > >> > > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > >> Andy Blunden > > > >> ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > > > >> On 21/03/2018 7:10 PM, WEBSTER, DAVID S. wrote: > > > >>> Please forgive my impatience but I have already directed you all > to a > > > site where all the points you (collectively) have so far made, and all > > the > > > one that you are ever likely to make on this subject, have been raised > > and > > > comprehensively worked over by Gans and those many scholars who have > > > engaged with him. The nub is the progressive transformation from > analogue > > > to digital required for information transfer between different systems > > > operating at differing time scales. What Gans described in his > 'originary > > > hypothesis' is the same transformational operation that was used to > > teach > > > deaf and alingual children at Zagorsk that involves taking the actions > of > > > appropriation (actions for life skills) and paring them down to a > digital > > > code - dactylic signing. For Andy: the Urpraxis, solidarity in your > > > telling, arises at the originary scene of language (in Gans's telling) > > > through the formation of a in-group out-group relation. > > > >>> > > > >>> Rant Over > > > >>> > > > >>> Ps its not that I agree with all Gans argues, But he does attempt > to > > > cover all bases where origin of language /human culture is concerned > and > > in > > > a non-sectarian/non-egotistical fashion and I therefor worth engaging > > with. > > > No need to reinvent the wheel here. > > > >>> > > > >>> -----Original Message----- > > > >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > >>> [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden > > > >>> Sent: 21 March 2018 05:39 > > > >>> To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > > > >>> > > > >>> I think that the thesis that *mime* (to generalise beyond > > > >>> signing) is a plausible precursor to spoken language, and there is > > are > > > substantial anthropological arguments to support that thesis. It seems > to > > > me that stone tools are precursors of tools more generally, and mime > may > > be > > > a precursor to spoken language, while the anatomical prerequisites to > > > speech are evolving. How did speech become such a necessity that it > drove > > > anatomical change, and when/why did tool=making "take off" after > > stagnating > > > for millennia? > > > >>> > > > >>> But I'm only guessing, as are you David! > > > >>> > > > >>> This is not a palaeontologists' list, so I guess I was > > over-optimistic > > > to think I'd get a decisive answer to this. > > > >>> > > > >>> Andy > > > >>> > > > >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > >>> Andy Blunden > > > >>> ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > > > >>> On 21/03/2018 4:24 PM, David Kellogg wrote: > > > >>>> I meant deaf people. There's a strong argument being made by deaf > > > >>>> linguists--which I agree with--that holds that spoken languages > are > > > >>>> an offshoot of sign rather than the other way around. This sheds > > > >>>> some light on Andy's problem: people developed spoken languages > > > >>>> when they found they had other things to do with their hands, like > > > hold tools. > > > >>>> But I also think that pre-linguistic children are an important > > > >>>> minority that prefers the visual channel, at least for taking in > > > >>>> information, just as we adults who get most of our information > > > through reading do. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> There are some scripts that are more visual and others that are > > > >>>> more auditory--and within the same script we find elements that > are > > > >>>> more visual (Chinese radicals) and others that are more auditory > > > >>>> (the phonetic components of Chinese characters). Even in English > > > >>>> there are some elements that are visually salient but not > > > >>>> auditorily salient (e.g. punctuation, variations in handwriting > > > >>>> styles, fonts, > > > >>>> etc.) and other elements that are more auditory (the International > > > >>>> Phonetic Alphabet which is really English based and which has > > > >>>> sought, for over a century, a perfect match between phonemes and > > > >>>> graphemes). Phonics is based on the idea that English has evolved > > > >>>> towards a one phoneme-one grapheme match; in fact, it has evolved > > > away from it. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> David Kellogg > > > >>>> Sangmyung University > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Recent Article in *Early Years* > > > >>>> > > > >>>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, > > > >>>> and the child?s first interrogatives > > > >>>> > 3A__www.tandfonline.com_doi_full_10.1080_09575146.2018. > 1431874&d=DwIFaQ&c= > > aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r= > > mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=MyLNeimQQ9r8Lh-_Ju96NFG_ > > BYk0N6Vbl5GyLGtlIz8&s=ex_usYzJIJsMujJgQ0CnJhEpoF-8YohgyuvesdusBUk&e= > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Free e-print available at: > > > >>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www. > > tandfonline.com_eprint_6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW_full&d=DwIFaQ&c= > > aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r= > > mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=MyLNeimQQ9r8Lh-_Ju96NFG_ > > BYk0N6Vbl5GyLGtlIz8&s=wRlB2z1oAEdkjZ5hutg4bNq4ULJGrN5atdmmVw28Ir4&e= > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 1:11 PM, Helena Worthen > > > >>>> > > > >>>> wrote: > > > >>>> > > > >>>>> David, what is the important minority that you?re referring to: > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> "... the lowering of the vocal tract was phenomenal to language; > > > >>>>> it was only an epiphenomenal circumstance which made the majority > > > >>>>> of humans choose the vocal channel for language while an > important > > > >>>>> minority choose the visual channel? ? ? > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> And how can we see what can be seen in the visual channel? > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Helena Worthen > > > >>>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com > > > >>>>> Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 > > > >>>>> Blog US/ Viet Nam: > > > >>>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > > >>>>> skype: helena.worthen1 > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>>> On Mar 21, 2018, at 8:37 AM, David Kellogg < > dkellogg60@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> Andy has a knack for winkling brilliant insights out of early > > > Vygotsky: > > > >>>>> he > > > >>>>>> remarks somewhere that "Ape, Primitive, Child: Studies in the > > > >>>>>> History of Behavior," a book which I really didn't care much > for, > > > >>>>>> taught him that whenever we decide on some essential distinction > > > >>>>>> between human and non-human behavior, we necessarily find > > > >>>>>> rudiments of it in non-human behavior. To which I would only add > > > >>>>>> that the circumstance that the rudiments of human behavior are > > > >>>>>> linked to non-human behavior doesn't > > > >>>>> make > > > >>>>>> them indistinguishable. On the contrary, it is really only > > > >>>>>> because human behaviors are distinct that we can speak of them > > > >>>>>> being linked (we don't talk of air-breathing in humans as being > > > >>>>>> linked to air-breathing in apes, because the process is really > > > >>>>>> one and the same; we do speak of language > > > >>>>> in > > > >>>>>> humans as being linked to ape vocalizations precisely because > > > >>>>>> they are distinct processes). If this is true of anthropogenetic > > > >>>>>> phenomena like > > > >>>>> free > > > >>>>>> will, language and literacy, it's also true of their > symptomatic > > > >>>>>> epiphenomena, such as migration, culture, and literature. I > don't > > > >>>>>> agree with Andy that the lowering of the vocal tract was > > > >>>>>> phenomenal to > > > >>>>> language; > > > >>>>>> it was only an epiphenomenal circumstance which made the > majority > > > >>>>>> of > > > >>>>> humans > > > >>>>>> choose the vocal channel for language while an important > minority > > > >>>>>> choose the visual channel, to which the majority again reverted > > > >>>>>> once alphabets > > > >>>>> and > > > >>>>>> literacy were invented (again, an exercise of some rudimentary > > > >>>>>> form of > > > >>>>> free > > > >>>>>> will). > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> Compare migration along a seacoast with migration into a > > > >>>>>> mountainous region. One requires no major change in productive > > > >>>>>> relations, while the other probably does. Similar with migration > > > >>>>>> along an East-West axis. This requires relatively little free > > > >>>>>> will, as the climate does not change and many of the plants and > > > animals which provide food are probably the same. > > > >>>>> In > > > >>>>>> contrast, migration along a North-South axis, which involves > > > >>>>>> climate > > > >>>>> change > > > >>>>>> and corresponding adaptations, would require relatively more > > > >>>>>> communal discussion, the process Andy calls collaborative > > > >>>>>> decision making. I think that wandering out of Africa involved, > > > >>>>>> on the one hand, migration along > > > >>>>> the > > > >>>>>> Nile and coastlines and, on the other, migration out of a > > > >>>>>> mountainous region (the Rift Valley is pretty mountainous). But > > > >>>>>> it also involved migration along a North-South axis and not an > > > >>>>>> East-West one. Of course, staying put in Africa probably also > > > >>>>>> involved collaborative decision > > > >>>>> making > > > >>>>>> over millenia, but we don't have any record of the decision as > we > > > >>>>>> do with leaving the home continent > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> David Kellogg > > > >>>>>> Sangmyung University > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> Recent Article in *Early Years* > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, > > > >>>>>> and the child?s first interrogatives > > > >>>>>> > 3A__www.tandfonline.com_doi_full_10.1080_09575146.2018.14318&d=DwIFaQ&c= > > aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r= > > mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=MyLNeimQQ9r8Lh-_Ju96NFG_ > > BYk0N6Vbl5GyLGtlIz8&s=LJaYJBkDZO1hWul3UfpQ0z0FSBWjdUR6WUhWEeVO908&e= > > > >>>>>> 7 > > > >>>>>> 4 > > > >>>>>> Free e-print available at: > > > >>>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www. > > tandfonline.com_eprint_6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW_full&d=DwIFaQ&c= > > aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r= > > mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=MyLNeimQQ9r8Lh-_Ju96NFG_ > > BYk0N6Vbl5GyLGtlIz8&s=wRlB2z1oAEdkjZ5hutg4bNq4ULJGrN5atdmmVw28Ir4&e= > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 9:07 AM, Martin Packer > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>> wrote: > > > >>>>>>> David, they wouldn't have known they were leaving their home > > > >>>>>>> continent, would they? Some of them were just lucky enough to > > > >>>>>>> wander in the > > > >>>>> direction > > > >>>>>>> of a land bridge, instead of into the ocean. Like any species > > > >>>>>>> that > > > >>>>> spreads > > > >>>>>>> into a new geographical location, no conscious decision > required. > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> Martin, who wandered into South America > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> On Mar 19, 2018, at 7:50 AM, David Kellogg > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>> wrote: > > > >>>>>>>> Somewhere in the discussion of Monica and Fernando's article, > > > >>>>>>>> Fernando > > > >>>>>>> made > > > >>>>>>>> the remark that history does not know "ifs". Similarly, Monica > > > >>>>>>>> implied > > > >>>>> at > > > >>>>>>>> one point that large technological changes must be taken as > > > >>>>>>>> given; they > > > >>>>>>> are > > > >>>>>>>> not something over which humans have control. But even if we > > > >>>>>>>> accept the "Out of Africa" story which this article > undermines, > > > >>>>>>>> we are left > > > >>>>> with > > > >>>>>>>> the apparently conscious decision of early hominids to leave > > > >>>>>>>> the home continent, something none of the other great apes > ever > > > determined upon. > > > >>>>>>>> Vygotsky remarked that rudiments of all four forms of higher > > > >>>>>>>> behavior--instinct, enculturation, creativity, and free will > > > >>>>>>>> that is > > > >>>>> none > > > >>>>>>>> of these--appear even in infancy. So it appears that free will > > > >>>>>>>> was > > > >>>>> always > > > >>>>>>>> part of anthropogenesis, and consequently that > > > >>>>>>>> history--including > > > >>>>> present > > > >>>>>>>> history--knows nothing but ifs. We just don't see the others > > > >>>>>>>> because we > > > >>>>>>> are > > > >>>>>>>> sitting in one of them. > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> David Kellogg > > > >>>>>>>> Sangmyung University > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> Recent Article in *Early Years* > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s > > > >>>>>>>> crises, and > > > >>>>> the > > > >>>>>>>> child?s first interrogatives > > > >>>>>>>> > 3A__www.tandfonline.com_doi_full_10.1080_09575146.2018.143&d=DwIFaQ&c= > > aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r= > > mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=MyLNeimQQ9r8Lh-_Ju96NFG_ > > BYk0N6Vbl5GyLGtlIz8&s=2gUdDbJLFRCjt0etkBXOCsBzJDHsHK3iuAzNltz73es&e= > > > >>>>>>>> 1 > > > >>>>>>>> 8 > > > >>>>>>>> 7 > > > >>>>>>>> 4> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> Free e-print available at: > > > >>>>>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www. > > tandfonline.com_eprint_6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW_full&d=DwIFaQ&c= > > aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r= > > mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=MyLNeimQQ9r8Lh-_Ju96NFG_ > > BYk0N6Vbl5GyLGtlIz8&s=wRlB2z1oAEdkjZ5hutg4bNq4ULJGrN5atdmmVw28Ir4&e= > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 7:33 AM, mike cole > > > wrote: > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> This synoptic story of the current state of research on human > > > >>>>>>>>> origins > > > >>>>>>> seems > > > >>>>>>>>> relevant to the cultural-historical folks around. > > > >>>>>>>>> mike > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www. > > sapiens.org_evolution_human-2Devolution-2D&d=DwIFaQ&c= > > aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r= > > mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=MyLNeimQQ9r8Lh-_Ju96NFG_ > > BYk0N6Vbl5GyLGtlIz8&s=iVeSOjjGdN3doQjgHvAaGuS9-Pip6rK7BcaBXI_D1t8&e= > > > >>>>>>>>> australia-asia/?utm_source=SAPIENS.org+Subscribers&utm_ > > > >>>>>>>>> campaign=1b31c25316-Email+Blast+12.22.2017&utm_medium= > > > >>>>>>>>> email&utm_term=0_18b7e41cd8-1b31c25316-199570669 > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Peter Feigenbaum, Ph.D. > Director, > Office of Institutional Research > > Fordham University > Thebaud Hall-202 > Bronx, NY 10458 > > Phone: (718) 817-2243 > Fax: (718) 817-3817 > email: pfeigenbaum@fordham.edu > From greg.a.thompson@gmail.com Thu Mar 22 15:14:24 2018 From: greg.a.thompson@gmail.com (Greg Thompson) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2018 16:14:24 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Moishe Postone (1942-2018) Message-ID: I imagine that a few here on the list may have heard of Moishe Postone's recent passing (and a few more might be interested to hear). I can't claim to have been particularly close to him but I can say that my understanding of Marx was greatly informed by the staff meetings in which teaching Marx (and others) to undergraduates was the topic year after year. Moishe was always a passionate and thoughtful leader of these discussions - a consummate teacher - and I know that I learned an immense amount from him. I was just reading an essay of his and saw this: "[Marx] makes clear that the categories of his analysis should not be understood in narrow economic terms. Rather, they ?express the forms of being [Daseinsformen], the determinations of existence [Existenzbestimmungen] . . . of this specific society? (Marx 1973: 106, trans. modified). As such, they are, at once, forms of subjectivity and objectivity; they express ?what is given, in the head as well as in reality? (Marx 1973: 106). That is, Marx?s categories purport to grasp as intrinsically interrelated, economic, social and cultural dimensions of the modern, capitalist form of life that frequently are treated as contingently related, as extrinsic to one another. " Felt it relevant somehow... Full essay can be found here: https://thecharnelhouse.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Moishe-Postone-Rethinking-Capital-in-Light-of-the-Grundrisse-2008.pdf Best, greg -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson From annalisa@unm.edu Thu Mar 22 22:31:09 2018 From: annalisa@unm.edu (Annalisa Aguilar) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2018 05:31:09 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: A new-ish learning platform that may be a way to save adjuncts? In-Reply-To: References: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF4719@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu>, Message-ID: Hello skeptics and venerable others, Advocating for ignorance is one thing, but let's not get up on our high horses, shall we? It is really easy for people to dismiss changing paradigms, and then the tide comes in and increases to a depth where one is caught unawares. I would say this is the moment you might be paying attention and watching what is happening and make your own connections. This is the only reason I made the post. Namely: make your own connections. Play with the tools, see what they can and cannot do. Study them. Improve them. Discuss their merits and their shortcomings. But be involved! Thomas Edison once thought that motion pictures would end the traditional forms of teaching and instruction, and he ended up being wrong, but there is something that enriched learning by having media like film available to classroom instruction. Or just being exposed to worldviews through the eyes of another. If you do not mind, I would push back to the push back that we actually do know how to make learning happen on these platforms, and we are learning what works and what doesn't. People have been doing that for a long while now. It's likely different. I never said it was the same or better. I don't need a degree to sort out that this isn't the same as a core college-lecture-hall-delivered course, or a tutorial with a one-on-on tutor, or anything on that spectrum. I do not see it replacing classroom teaching, like Edison did; I see it as *different*. That's all. Offering learning in a different package. There is no one way of learning. Here's the thing: For real niche classes it's possible to create innovative coursework because the constraints are simply not there. (For example check out GCAS) see: https://thegcas.org/welcome They have Alain Bardieu as their university president. https://thegcas.org/alain-badiou The founder is Creston Davis: https://thegcas.org/creston-davis This online university is a very intriguing innovation because they are starting centers all over the world. The online presence is a way of connecting them together. They have also begun a new concept called a blockchain university: "GCAS is forming a Blockchain University in Ireland so students can earn money pursuing their degrees and when they graduate they become co-owners." These are great ideas! Will they work? I don't know. But can't you admire these innovators for trying to get out from under the neoliberal yoke that has dominated so many universities? I want to make clear that I'm not saying this is the ultimate bread-slicer. I'm saying here is evidence of people putting their careers on the line and making something happen, and trying to do something else for the very reason they are upset with where university education is going. Will it work? How should I know. Typically in evolutionary processes, experimentation and imagination are critical to moving forward and enabling new paradigms to develop. What is wrong with that? Study the experiment and make it better. Just because Open Source MOOCs show a hokey rendition of online learning doesn't mean online learning does not work and should be totally dismissed. I'm really surprise to hear so much skepticism. I do agree that the marketing is silly (particularly with the idea of an business entrepreneur living on a yacht in the carribean! That is just dumb marketing from a low-imagination vantage point). Don't get so caught in those details. Try to consider the implications. Or don't. The idea is this: This absolutely can be a way for an educator to be innovative and fund one's own research using existing know-how and expertise in teaching. If course material is created with video lectures, homework, and quizzes, the learning involved can ultimately reach many people all over the world. No traditional university has ever been able to do that. Once a curriculum is created, that can be online in perpetuity, and people can purchase the access to the course as long as it is current. Or it can be distributed free, or with a request for a donation to pay what you want to pay. Imagine if Vygotsky had done effective online learning using his theories, and we could access his original lectures 100 years after he is gone. Imagine that the rights to the material could continue to his estate or to the public. It certainly couldn't have been banned. The point is there are better choices today (than say 10 years ago) and a wider distribution when it comes to online learning. The problem with most online platforms is that the designers and programmers typically do not confer with instructors, tutors, or teachers, when they design the platform software. From what I have seen, Blackboard being the absolute worst, Academy of Mine is effectively removing the complexity of putting courses online and providing instructors a revenue stream. I'm still learning about it, but it's actually pretty good. It is effectively cutting out fat-cat administrators and the university's demands for a lion's share of research funds or other forms of financial support. What if you all could be funded by your students tuition directly to do the research that you wanted? And your findings could be produced as online lectures that go directly to the public at large? It starts a virtuous cycle upwards. It's a different form of publishing your work. Would you want to be an independent researcher? Or do you need to have the security blanket of an established university who will not allow you to teach the topics you want in the way you want to teach them? There are 7.6 billion people on the planet, and they say half of them are on the Internet. That's 3.8 billion. What if you had an audience of 200,000 for your well-produced online course? If they paid you $1.00 that would be $200K going to you, with a small percentage of that going to your production costs, and payment acquisition. Even if 25% went to that, that's still $175K to you, far better than the typical university salary. And this is just for one class. Isn't THE POINT of tenure track positions to ensure academic freedom? Tenured positions are disappearing, they likely aren't coming back. I am sad about this, but what can be done if the paradigm is dying? Universities are replacing tenure track professorships with adjuncts, didn't you know? This possibility might just be a way to push back, by just doing your own school, or an academy of yours. Just like you would write your own book. What if you could design your own curriculums, isn't that the freedom that you want? What would that look like? With regards to an LMS vs learning. I didn't say that the LMS was learning. It's just a publishing tool, and it's up to the educators to find a way to use them. What is wrong about that? That's like saying a book isn't learning. Who doesn't know that? And a big book isn't more learning than a small one. The book is simply a tool for distribution and the book is one component used to aid in learning. Why can't the same be said for an LMS? Why couldn't it be a way that makes it easy for instructors to ensure payment for their hard work? Like publishing a book? I'm not really surprised by the negativity. I am surprised by the lack of imagination. Put your thinking caps on! How could this actually work and be rewarding for all involved? You can't tell me there is no way? Is that what you are saying? Kind regards, Annalisa ________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Greg Mcverry Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2018 9:21:14 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: A new-ish learning platform that may be a way to save adjuncts? Advocating for ignorance always seems to be a strange position to take. Though it is a position those in power have often adopted through out history. I would also push back that we have no idea how to to make learning happen in these environments. What we might say is we have no way how to make learning happen in these ways that is both scalable and profitable with hockey stick growth. There are many folks in Open Source communities who have long created classes nothing like MOOCs. What is StackOverflow but a large (and sometimes rude) learning community? Cormier's #Rhizo classes, #DS106, #walkmyworld are all small scale classes in the education and art spaces that have been researched (though more comparative case studies and autoenthographies). I also think we need to stop the false distinction between our offline and offline learning environments. I think part of the reason hybrid learning comes out favorably in meta-analysis isn't just because of the role of the instructor but the computer aided yet tactile environment is an interesting artifacts of tools. Finally the only way an app would help adjuncts would be if it had two buttons, "Pay me a living wage" and "create a "Tenure Track Position" On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 2:44 PM Glassman, Michael wrote: > Hi Annalisa and all others interested, > > Thanks for the link to the video, but I have to say it is pretty > problematic. First it calls itself a learning management system when it > really has nothing to do with learning. It is instead a course management > system. So why do people use the phrase learning management systems - > because companies that sell learning management systems want them to. > > The distinction is important because while all this hardware and software > is really wowsa, we pretty much have little idea how to use it to create > actual learning experiences. We just think it will happen because person A > has knowledge, person B could use knowledge, transfer knowledge, done and > done. I tend to think of the transfer model as being not very good as a > teaching learning model. But there are a whole bunch of other issues which > we are just beginning to explore like teacher presence in online > situations, student relatedness (the four walls actually do play a part), > individual agency, collective/collaborative agency, cognitive presences - > the list just goes on. The guy on the boat (you have to watch the video) > probably isn't going to be that successful. Who is going to be successful > - why academy of mine will be! > > We went through this with xMOOCs. I'm old enough to remember when they > were going to be the new model for education. I still have discussions > with people who say MOOCs do good things. They reach all these people with > information from experts. I ask, is there a good thing? People say, of > course it's a good thing. I ask is there any evidence of this? They say > well it's better than not reaching them with information. I ask are you > sure. There actually is some evidence that it's not that good a thing from > Participatory Action Research. I think one of the things we have to > question ourselves about is why this sounds so good to us. > > This is not to say the Internet is not going to have stunning effects on > the way we teach and learn. We need to do the hard work of figuring why > and how. But this.... > > > Michael > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto: > xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Annalisa Aguilar > Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2018 12:56 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] A new-ish learning platform that may be a way to save > adjuncts? > > Hello Xmcars, > > > A few days ago I learned about this new online learning platform "Academy > Of Mine" > > > I think that it portends what future learning might entail. It may be a > way of bypassing the calcified learning patterns that no one seems to be > able to escape, thanks to the neoliberalization of higher learning. > > > This platform is also about doing business in education, but something > about it seems more palatable than paying presidents and other > administrators several hundred thousand dollar salaries to run a university. > > > Here is an intro video for the platform, which I think is using wordpress > for its online architecture. > > https://vimeo.com/92334633 > > [https://www.bing.com/th?id=OVP.rKgA__knRtrA5l2yfST4XAEsCo&pid=Api]< > https://vimeo.com/92334633> > > All-In-One Learning-Management-System - Academy Of Mine< > https://vimeo.com/92334633> vimeo.com If you're going to be offering a > course online you'll need Learning Management System Software (LMS) for > your online educational environment. But if you're an ... > > This might be a way in particular for adjuncts to "hold on" to their > course material, and perhaps at some point monetize their courses in such a > way they can create another income stream. > > > I've not really thought this through, but I think this could be > paradigm-changing because Academy of Mine seems to really address the > technology difficulties for non-technical instructors and teachers. > > > I am curious what you think. > > > I am not affiliated with Academy of Mine, but I have an opportunity to use > the platform and am just learnign about it. I was so impressed I thought I > would let you all take a look. > > > It might make possible courses that are hybird in nature, and it could > possibly make experimental learning easier to set up, which would allow > educators to do the things they have always known works with successful > learning experiences, and just walk around the Maginot Line of university > hegemonies. > > > Kind regards, > > > Annalisa > > > From chronaki@uth.gr Thu Mar 22 23:54:15 2018 From: chronaki@uth.gr (Anna Chronaki) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2018 07:54:15 +0100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: A new-ish learning platform that may be a way to save adjuncts? In-Reply-To: References: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF4719@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> Message-ID: <5FCEFE09-3B73-4C99-A63B-3DDB5C02A441@uth.gr> Thank you Annalisa! This seems like a serious grassroots movement, but one that, nevertheless, uses again the intellectuals and their ?power? to do things with us all and mainly with students. As you say, these all initiatives cannot be ignored, but a closer analysis seems necessary. Do they actually emancipate people? Or, do they work within the circle of neoliberal and market related practices of need today? For example, when one sees that a Deleuzian interactive seminar costs 50 Euros or dollars, why then to bother buying a book or turn to study a theory?? the whole story of knowledge and studying changes here? and, to my view, it starts becoming more and more vividly and visually insignificant commodity compared to other more serious demands in our lives. all the best and thank you again! Anna > On 23 Mar 2018, at 06:31, Annalisa Aguilar wrote: > > Hello skeptics and venerable others, > > > Advocating for ignorance is one thing, but let's not get up on our high horses, shall we? > > > It is really easy for people to dismiss changing paradigms, and then the tide comes in and increases to a depth where one is caught unawares. I would say this is the moment you might be paying attention and watching what is happening and make your own connections. This is the only reason I made the post. > > > Namely: make your own connections. Play with the tools, see what they can and cannot do. Study them. Improve them. Discuss their merits and their shortcomings. But be involved! > > > Thomas Edison once thought that motion pictures would end the traditional forms of teaching and instruction, and he ended up being wrong, but there is something that enriched learning by having media like film available to classroom instruction. Or just being exposed to worldviews through the eyes of another. > > > If you do not mind, I would push back to the push back that we actually do know how to make learning happen on these platforms, and we are learning what works and what doesn't. People have been doing that for a long while now. It's likely different. I never said it was the same or better. I don't need a degree to sort out that this isn't the same as a core college-lecture-hall-delivered course, or a tutorial with a one-on-on tutor, or anything on that spectrum. > > > I do not see it replacing classroom teaching, like Edison did; I see it as *different*. That's all. Offering learning in a different package. There is no one way of learning. > > > Here's the thing: For real niche classes it's possible to create innovative coursework because the constraints are simply not there. > > > (For example check out GCAS) > > see: https://thegcas.org/welcome > > > They have Alain Bardieu as their university president. > > https://thegcas.org/alain-badiou > > > The founder is Creston Davis: > > https://thegcas.org/creston-davis > > > This online university is a very intriguing innovation because they are starting centers all over the world. The online presence is a way of connecting them together. > > They have also begun a new concept called a blockchain university: > > "GCAS is forming a Blockchain University in Ireland so students can earn money pursuing their degrees and when they graduate they become co-owners." > > > These are great ideas! Will they work? I don't know. But can't you admire these innovators for trying to get out from under the neoliberal yoke that has dominated so many universities? > > > I want to make clear that I'm not saying this is the ultimate bread-slicer. I'm saying here is evidence of people putting their careers on the line and making something happen, and trying to do something else for the very reason they are upset with where university education is going. > > > Will it work? How should I know. Typically in evolutionary processes, experimentation and imagination are critical to moving forward and enabling new paradigms to develop. What is wrong with that? > > > Study the experiment and make it better. > > > Just because Open Source MOOCs show a hokey rendition of online learning doesn't mean online learning does not work and should be totally dismissed. I'm really surprise to hear so much skepticism. > > > I do agree that the marketing is silly (particularly with the idea of an business entrepreneur living on a yacht in the carribean! That is just dumb marketing from a low-imagination vantage point). Don't get so caught in those details. Try to consider the implications. Or don't. > > > The idea is this: This absolutely can be a way for an educator to be innovative and fund one's own research using existing know-how and expertise in teaching. If course material is created with video lectures, homework, and quizzes, the learning involved can ultimately reach many people all over the world. No traditional university has ever been able to do that. > > > Once a curriculum is created, that can be online in perpetuity, and people can purchase the access to the course as long as it is current. Or it can be distributed free, or with a request for a donation to pay what you want to pay. > > > Imagine if Vygotsky had done effective online learning using his theories, and we could access his original lectures 100 years after he is gone. Imagine that the rights to the material could continue to his estate or to the public. It certainly couldn't have been banned. > > > The point is there are better choices today (than say 10 years ago) and a wider distribution when it comes to online learning. > > > The problem with most online platforms is that the designers and programmers typically do not confer with instructors, tutors, or teachers, when they design the platform software. From what I have seen, Blackboard being the absolute worst, Academy of Mine is effectively removing the complexity of putting courses online and providing instructors a revenue stream. I'm still learning about it, but it's actually pretty good. It is effectively cutting out fat-cat administrators and the university's demands for a lion's share of research funds or other forms of financial support. > > > What if you all could be funded by your students tuition directly to do the research that you wanted? And your findings could be produced as online lectures that go directly to the public at large? It starts a virtuous cycle upwards. It's a different form of publishing your work. > > > Would you want to be an independent researcher? Or do you need to have the security blanket of an established university who will not allow you to teach the topics you want in the way you want to teach them? > > > There are 7.6 billion people on the planet, and they say half of them are on the Internet. That's 3.8 billion. What if you had an audience of 200,000 for your well-produced online course? If they paid you $1.00 that would be $200K going to you, with a small percentage of that going to your production costs, and payment acquisition. Even if 25% went to that, that's still $175K to you, far better than the typical university salary. And this is just for one class. > > > Isn't THE POINT of tenure track positions to ensure academic freedom? Tenured positions are disappearing, they likely aren't coming back. I am sad about this, but what can be done if the paradigm is dying? Universities are replacing tenure track professorships with adjuncts, didn't you know? > > > This possibility might just be a way to push back, by just doing your own school, or an academy of yours. Just like you would write your own book. What if you could design your own curriculums, isn't that the freedom that you want? What would that look like? > > > With regards to an LMS vs learning. I didn't say that the LMS was learning. It's just a publishing tool, and it's up to the educators to find a way to use them. What is wrong about that? > > > That's like saying a book isn't learning. Who doesn't know that? And a big book isn't more learning than a small one. The book is simply a tool for distribution and the book is one component used to aid in learning. Why can't the same be said for an LMS? Why couldn't it be a way that makes it easy for instructors to ensure payment for their hard work? Like publishing a book? > > > I'm not really surprised by the negativity. I am surprised by the lack of imagination. > > > Put your thinking caps on! > > > How could this actually work and be rewarding for all involved? You can't tell me there is no way? > > > Is that what you are saying? > > > Kind regards, > > > Annalisa > > > > > ________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Greg Mcverry > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2018 9:21:14 AM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: A new-ish learning platform that may be a way to save adjuncts? > > Advocating for ignorance always seems to be a strange position to take. > Though it is a position those in power have often adopted through out > history. > > I would also push back that we have no idea how to to make learning happen > in these environments. What we might say is we have no way how to make > learning happen in these ways that is both scalable and profitable with > hockey stick growth. > > There are many folks in Open Source communities who have long created > classes nothing like MOOCs. What is StackOverflow but a large (and > sometimes rude) learning community? Cormier's #Rhizo classes, #DS106, > #walkmyworld are all small scale classes in the education and art spaces > that have been researched (though more comparative case studies and > autoenthographies). > > I also think we need to stop the false distinction between our offline and > offline learning environments. I think part of the reason hybrid learning > comes out favorably in meta-analysis isn't just because of the role of the > instructor but the computer aided yet tactile environment is an interesting > artifacts of tools. > > Finally the only way an app would help adjuncts would be if it had two > buttons, "Pay me a living wage" and "create a "Tenure Track Position" > > On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 2:44 PM Glassman, Michael > wrote: > >> Hi Annalisa and all others interested, >> >> Thanks for the link to the video, but I have to say it is pretty >> problematic. First it calls itself a learning management system when it >> really has nothing to do with learning. It is instead a course management >> system. So why do people use the phrase learning management systems - >> because companies that sell learning management systems want them to. >> >> The distinction is important because while all this hardware and software >> is really wowsa, we pretty much have little idea how to use it to create >> actual learning experiences. We just think it will happen because person A >> has knowledge, person B could use knowledge, transfer knowledge, done and >> done. I tend to think of the transfer model as being not very good as a >> teaching learning model. But there are a whole bunch of other issues which >> we are just beginning to explore like teacher presence in online >> situations, student relatedness (the four walls actually do play a part), >> individual agency, collective/collaborative agency, cognitive presences - >> the list just goes on. The guy on the boat (you have to watch the video) >> probably isn't going to be that successful. Who is going to be successful >> - why academy of mine will be! >> >> We went through this with xMOOCs. I'm old enough to remember when they >> were going to be the new model for education. I still have discussions >> with people who say MOOCs do good things. They reach all these people with >> information from experts. I ask, is there a good thing? People say, of >> course it's a good thing. I ask is there any evidence of this? They say >> well it's better than not reaching them with information. I ask are you >> sure. There actually is some evidence that it's not that good a thing from >> Participatory Action Research. I think one of the things we have to >> question ourselves about is why this sounds so good to us. >> >> This is not to say the Internet is not going to have stunning effects on >> the way we teach and learn. We need to do the hard work of figuring why >> and how. But this.... >> >> >> Michael >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto: >> xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Annalisa Aguilar >> Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2018 12:56 PM >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >> Subject: [Xmca-l] A new-ish learning platform that may be a way to save >> adjuncts? >> >> Hello Xmcars, >> >> >> A few days ago I learned about this new online learning platform "Academy >> Of Mine" >> >> >> I think that it portends what future learning might entail. It may be a >> way of bypassing the calcified learning patterns that no one seems to be >> able to escape, thanks to the neoliberalization of higher learning. >> >> >> This platform is also about doing business in education, but something >> about it seems more palatable than paying presidents and other >> administrators several hundred thousand dollar salaries to run a university. >> >> >> Here is an intro video for the platform, which I think is using wordpress >> for its online architecture. >> >> https://vimeo.com/92334633 >> >> [https://www.bing.com/th?id=OVP.rKgA__knRtrA5l2yfST4XAEsCo&pid=Api]< >> https://vimeo.com/92334633> >> >> All-In-One Learning-Management-System - Academy Of Mine< >> https://vimeo.com/92334633> vimeo.com If you're going to be offering a >> course online you'll need Learning Management System Software (LMS) for >> your online educational environment. But if you're an ... >> >> This might be a way in particular for adjuncts to "hold on" to their >> course material, and perhaps at some point monetize their courses in such a >> way they can create another income stream. >> >> >> I've not really thought this through, but I think this could be >> paradigm-changing because Academy of Mine seems to really address the >> technology difficulties for non-technical instructors and teachers. >> >> >> I am curious what you think. >> >> >> I am not affiliated with Academy of Mine, but I have an opportunity to use >> the platform and am just learnign about it. I was so impressed I thought I >> would let you all take a look. >> >> >> It might make possible courses that are hybird in nature, and it could >> possibly make experimental learning easier to set up, which would allow >> educators to do the things they have always known works with successful >> learning experiences, and just walk around the Maginot Line of university >> hegemonies. >> >> >> Kind regards, >> >> >> Annalisa >> >> >> From d.s.webster@durham.ac.uk Fri Mar 23 00:59:16 2018 From: d.s.webster@durham.ac.uk (WEBSTER, DAVID S.) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2018 07:59:16 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical In-Reply-To: References: <030AF564-E49F-4D62-A7E8-1929B7295C28@gmail.com> <4bf362ed-1c89-ca1b-3646-e2da9a109fef@marxists.org> <8bec7884-a666-b1cd-9b36-a38b816ae514@marxists.org> <8714c5bb-063f-13c0-a430-e9d670019ccc@marxists.org> <0e61135e-a370-6807-79a2-5655df9805d9@marxists.org> Message-ID: Bound to agree with you re Gans and anti-Zionism/ antisemitism. Whatever the strengths of his anthropology, firstness and resentment cannot cope alone (if at all) with explaining contemporary socio-political situations least of all those in the Old Testament lands. His dogmatism here has pushed him to the right and that is to be regretted. Not sure I understand your musical example... David -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg Sent: 21 March 2018 21:27 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical One reason for Jews like me to be sceptical of Gans is his apparent Zionism (i.e. his insistence that there is a Jewish archaeological claim to the land of Israel, and is conflation of anti-Zionism and anti-semitism in the "Love and Resentment" blog). I am teaching phonetics and phonology this term, and one of the first things we learn is the difference between the highly musical instrument that we share with all of our conspecifics and the peculiar way in which we compose music for it (including the chords of notes, the intonational melodies, and the stress rhythms) which we share only with our speech community. The late, great Dmitri Hvorostovsky was charged with hubris for referring to his own mellow baritone as "the perfect instrument", but what he really meant was that we humans have evolved our music tastes around a universal, ideal, non-existent human voice (like Daniel Jones' cardinal vowels, which are not the vowels of any known language). But I am also sceptical of Andy's desire for archaeological evidence of language development--I agree with Gans that the question of the origins of language is solveable by other, more indirect means (e.g. studying child language and looking at how mitochondrial DNA changes correlate with language dispersion). But for that very reason I think the "Jewish" claim to Palestine is about as strong as the European claim to the Rift Valley in Kenya. David Kellogg Sangmyung University Recent Article in *Early Years* The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and the child?s first interrogatives Free e-print available at: https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 11:35 PM, WEBSTER, DAVID S. < d.s.webster@durham.ac.uk> wrote: > Andy, dear heart; busy will be tomorrow, hand excavating a Neolithic > ditch with mattock and trowel - there might even be some flints to find! > Academic writing is pure relaxation.. > > Regards > > David > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden > Sent: 21 March 2018 13:26 > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > > In short David, because I am writing. If something caught my > imagination I would make time for it. At the moment, like everyone > else I suspect, I am busy. But I am still up for hard news of a palaeontological kind. > > Andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > On 22/03/2018 12:15 AM, WEBSTER, DAVID S. wrote: > > Why read Wikipedia when you can just as easily read Gans? Sceptical, > fine, why? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden > > Sent: 21 March 2018 12:49 > > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > > > > Wikpedia gives a fair picture of Gans's ideas, David. I'm sceptical. > > > > Andy > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Andy Blunden > > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > > On 21/03/2018 8:24 PM, WEBSTER, DAVID S. wrote: > >> As it happens there Gans offers a blog associated with the > >> journal 'Chronicles of Love & Resentment' but his story start with > >> his first book 'The origins of language'. Unfortunately, > >> palaeontological evidence philosophical speculation and semiotics > >> are blended throughout if with shifting focus. Not much directly on > >> tool use if memory serves but that tends to follow on in one way or > >> another from the rest. There was no expectation that anyone would > >> need to digest the whole of the archive but it takes little effort > >> to dip in and see what may catch your interest or ire and start > >> from there. You might start your Gansian journey with 'The little > >> big bang' (i.e. event of > >> language) http://anthropoetics.ucla.edu/ap0501/gans-2/ > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >> [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden > >> Sent: 21 March 2018 08:35 > >> To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > >> > >> Sorry David. You directed us to the home page of a journal. > >> I am chuffed that you have actually read some of my work, but I > >> think > in general people on xmca don't usually go further than reading an > article of a few thousand words if it is relevant to a discussion. A > whole journal archive? > >> > >> But if you can direct me to the article which correlates > palaeontological evidence and speech and tool origins (not > philosophical > speculation) I will be all over it. (I love philosophical speculation, > but not on this question just now). > >> > >> Andy > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------ > >> Andy Blunden > >> ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > >> On 21/03/2018 7:10 PM, WEBSTER, DAVID S. wrote: > >>> Please forgive my impatience but I have already directed you all > >>> to a > site where all the points you (collectively) have so far made, and > all the one that you are ever likely to make on this subject, have > been raised and comprehensively worked over by Gans and those many > scholars who have engaged with him. The nub is the progressive > transformation from analogue to digital required for information > transfer between different systems operating at differing time scales. > What Gans described in his 'originary hypothesis' is the same > transformational operation that was used to teach deaf and alingual > children at Zagorsk that involves taking the actions of appropriation > (actions for life skills) and paring them down to a digital code - > dactylic signing. For Andy: the Urpraxis, solidarity in your telling, > arises at the originary scene of language (in Gans's telling) through the formation of a in-group out-group relation. > >>> > >>> Rant Over > >>> > >>> Ps its not that I agree with all Gans argues, But he does attempt > >>> to > cover all bases where origin of language /human culture is concerned > and in a non-sectarian/non-egotistical fashion and I therefor worth engaging with. > No need to reinvent the wheel here. > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >>> [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden > >>> Sent: 21 March 2018 05:39 > >>> To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > >>> > >>> I think that the thesis that *mime* (to generalise beyond > >>> signing) is a plausible precursor to spoken language, and there is > >>> are > substantial anthropological arguments to support that thesis. It seems > to me that stone tools are precursors of tools more generally, and > mime may be a precursor to spoken language, while the anatomical > prerequisites to speech are evolving. How did speech become such a > necessity that it drove anatomical change, and when/why did > tool=making "take off" after stagnating for millennia? > >>> > >>> But I'm only guessing, as are you David! > >>> > >>> This is not a palaeontologists' list, so I guess I was > >>> over-optimistic > to think I'd get a decisive answer to this. > >>> > >>> Andy > >>> > >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ > >>> Andy Blunden > >>> ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > >>> On 21/03/2018 4:24 PM, David Kellogg wrote: > >>>> I meant deaf people. There's a strong argument being made by deaf > >>>> linguists--which I agree with--that holds that spoken languages > >>>> are an offshoot of sign rather than the other way around. This > >>>> sheds some light on Andy's problem: people developed spoken > >>>> languages when they found they had other things to do with their > >>>> hands, like > hold tools. > >>>> But I also think that pre-linguistic children are an important > >>>> minority that prefers the visual channel, at least for taking in > >>>> information, just as we adults who get most of our information > through reading do. > >>>> > >>>> There are some scripts that are more visual and others that are > >>>> more auditory--and within the same script we find elements that > >>>> are more visual (Chinese radicals) and others that are more > >>>> auditory (the phonetic components of Chinese characters). Even in > >>>> English there are some elements that are visually salient but not > >>>> auditorily salient (e.g. punctuation, variations in handwriting > >>>> styles, fonts, > >>>> etc.) and other elements that are more auditory (the > >>>> International Phonetic Alphabet which is really English based and > >>>> which has sought, for over a century, a perfect match between > >>>> phonemes and graphemes). Phonics is based on the idea that > >>>> English has evolved towards a one phoneme-one grapheme match; in > >>>> fact, it has evolved > away from it. > >>>> > >>>> David Kellogg > >>>> Sangmyung University > >>>> > >>>> Recent Article in *Early Years* > >>>> > >>>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, > >>>> and the child?s first interrogatives > >>>> >>>> 74 > >>>> > > >>>> > >>>> Free e-print available at: > >>>> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 1:11 PM, Helena Worthen > >>>> > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> David, what is the important minority that you?re referring to: > >>>>> > >>>>> "... the lowering of the vocal tract was phenomenal to language; > >>>>> it was only an epiphenomenal circumstance which made the > >>>>> majority of humans choose the vocal channel for language while > >>>>> an important minority choose the visual channel? ? ? > >>>>> > >>>>> And how can we see what can be seen in the visual channel? > >>>>> > >>>>> Helena Worthen > >>>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com > >>>>> Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 > >>>>> Blog US/ Viet Nam: > >>>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com > >>>>> skype: helena.worthen1 > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> On Mar 21, 2018, at 8:37 AM, David Kellogg > >>>>>> > wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Andy has a knack for winkling brilliant insights out of early > Vygotsky: > >>>>> he > >>>>>> remarks somewhere that "Ape, Primitive, Child: Studies in the > >>>>>> History of Behavior," a book which I really didn't care much > >>>>>> for, taught him that whenever we decide on some essential > >>>>>> distinction between human and non-human behavior, we > >>>>>> necessarily find rudiments of it in non-human behavior. To > >>>>>> which I would only add that the circumstance that the rudiments > >>>>>> of human behavior are linked to non-human behavior doesn't > >>>>> make > >>>>>> them indistinguishable. On the contrary, it is really only > >>>>>> because human behaviors are distinct that we can speak of them > >>>>>> being linked (we don't talk of air-breathing in humans as being > >>>>>> linked to air-breathing in apes, because the process is really > >>>>>> one and the same; we do speak of language > >>>>> in > >>>>>> humans as being linked to ape vocalizations precisely because > >>>>>> they are distinct processes). If this is true of > >>>>>> anthropogenetic phenomena like > >>>>> free > >>>>>> will, language and literacy, it's also true of their > >>>>>> symptomatic epiphenomena, such as migration, culture, and > >>>>>> literature. I don't agree with Andy that the lowering of the > >>>>>> vocal tract was phenomenal to > >>>>> language; > >>>>>> it was only an epiphenomenal circumstance which made the > >>>>>> majority of > >>>>> humans > >>>>>> choose the vocal channel for language while an important > >>>>>> minority choose the visual channel, to which the majority again > >>>>>> reverted once alphabets > >>>>> and > >>>>>> literacy were invented (again, an exercise of some rudimentary > >>>>>> form of > >>>>> free > >>>>>> will). > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Compare migration along a seacoast with migration into a > >>>>>> mountainous region. One requires no major change in productive > >>>>>> relations, while the other probably does. Similar with > >>>>>> migration along an East-West axis. This requires relatively > >>>>>> little free will, as the climate does not change and many of > >>>>>> the plants and > animals which provide food are probably the same. > >>>>> In > >>>>>> contrast, migration along a North-South axis, which involves > >>>>>> climate > >>>>> change > >>>>>> and corresponding adaptations, would require relatively more > >>>>>> communal discussion, the process Andy calls collaborative > >>>>>> decision making. I think that wandering out of Africa involved, > >>>>>> on the one hand, migration along > >>>>> the > >>>>>> Nile and coastlines and, on the other, migration out of a > >>>>>> mountainous region (the Rift Valley is pretty mountainous). But > >>>>>> it also involved migration along a North-South axis and not an > >>>>>> East-West one. Of course, staying put in Africa probably also > >>>>>> involved collaborative decision > >>>>> making > >>>>>> over millenia, but we don't have any record of the decision as > >>>>>> we do with leaving the home continent > >>>>>> > >>>>>> David Kellogg > >>>>>> Sangmyung University > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Recent Article in *Early Years* > >>>>>> > >>>>>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s > >>>>>> crises, and the child?s first interrogatives > >>>>>> >>>>>> 18 > >>>>>> 7 > >>>>>> 4 > >>>>>> Free e-print available at: > >>>>>> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 9:07 AM, Martin Packer > >>>>>> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> David, they wouldn't have known they were leaving their home > >>>>>>> continent, would they? Some of them were just lucky enough to > >>>>>>> wander in the > >>>>> direction > >>>>>>> of a land bridge, instead of into the ocean. Like any species > >>>>>>> that > >>>>> spreads > >>>>>>> into a new geographical location, no conscious decision required. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Martin, who wandered into South America > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On Mar 19, 2018, at 7:50 AM, David Kellogg > >>>>>>>> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>> Somewhere in the discussion of Monica and Fernando's article, > >>>>>>>> Fernando > >>>>>>> made > >>>>>>>> the remark that history does not know "ifs". Similarly, > >>>>>>>> Monica implied > >>>>> at > >>>>>>>> one point that large technological changes must be taken as > >>>>>>>> given; they > >>>>>>> are > >>>>>>>> not something over which humans have control. But even if we > >>>>>>>> accept the "Out of Africa" story which this article > >>>>>>>> undermines, we are left > >>>>> with > >>>>>>>> the apparently conscious decision of early hominids to leave > >>>>>>>> the home continent, something none of the other great apes > >>>>>>>> ever > determined upon. > >>>>>>>> Vygotsky remarked that rudiments of all four forms of higher > >>>>>>>> behavior--instinct, enculturation, creativity, and free will > >>>>>>>> that is > >>>>> none > >>>>>>>> of these--appear even in infancy. So it appears that free > >>>>>>>> will was > >>>>> always > >>>>>>>> part of anthropogenesis, and consequently that > >>>>>>>> history--including > >>>>> present > >>>>>>>> history--knows nothing but ifs. We just don't see the others > >>>>>>>> because we > >>>>>>> are > >>>>>>>> sitting in one of them. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> David Kellogg > >>>>>>>> Sangmyung University > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Recent Article in *Early Years* > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s > >>>>>>>> crises, and > >>>>> the > >>>>>>>> child?s first interrogatives > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 43 > >>>>>>>> 1 > >>>>>>>> 8 > >>>>>>>> 7 > >>>>>>>> 4> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Free e-print available at: > >>>>>>>> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 7:33 AM, mike cole > wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> This synoptic story of the current state of research on > >>>>>>>>> human origins > >>>>>>> seems > >>>>>>>>> relevant to the cultural-historical folks around. > >>>>>>>>> mike > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> https://www.sapiens.org/evolution/human-evolution- > >>>>>>>>> australia-asia/?utm_source=SAPIENS.org+Subscribers&utm_ > >>>>>>>>> campaign=1b31c25316-Email+Blast+12.22.2017&utm_medium= > >>>>>>>>> email&utm_term=0_18b7e41cd8-1b31c25316-199570669 > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > From greg.a.thompson@gmail.com Fri Mar 23 04:22:14 2018 From: greg.a.thompson@gmail.com (Greg Thompson) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2018 05:22:14 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: A new-ish learning platform that may be a way to save adjuncts? In-Reply-To: <5FCEFE09-3B73-4C99-A63B-3DDB5C02A441@uth.gr> References: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF4719@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <5FCEFE09-3B73-4C99-A63B-3DDB5C02A441@uth.gr> Message-ID: Annalisa, I have two thoughts, the supportive and the skeptic: 1. The supportive: If you feel confident that great things can be done with this, then go out and do it! Be the change and all that. (I would add that self-publishing a textbook, e.g. as a pdf that you sell for $30 or so, can be another way to gain an income from even a free online course - if you can get 100 students each time you teach a course and they all have to buy your textbook, then that's $3,000). 2. The skeptic: My caution would be that this is still caught up in neoliberalism and perhaps the worst form of it - the contract laborer selling their wares. This means that you are subject to the whims and interests of the student-as-consumer. The precarity of this arrangement is one thing, but the real trouble is that the student-as-consumer's desires are what drives education. That means that adjuncts teaching programming will probably do a lot better than adjuncts teaching Vygotsky. But that seems like an empirical question, so prove me wrong! Both points seem to come down to: discover what can be done and we will be convinced (and note that this is coming from naysayers who are implicated in the system that is being disrupted by these new technologies, so perhaps the worst people to talk to about such an idea!). -greg On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 12:54 AM, Anna Chronaki wrote: > Thank you Annalisa! > > This seems like a serious grassroots movement, but one that, nevertheless, > uses again the intellectuals and their ?power? to do things with us all and > mainly with students. > > As you say, these all initiatives cannot be ignored, but a closer analysis > seems necessary. Do they actually emancipate people? Or, do they work > within the circle of neoliberal and market related practices of need today? > > For example, when one sees that a Deleuzian interactive seminar costs 50 > Euros or dollars, why then to bother buying a book or turn to study a > theory?? the whole story of knowledge and studying changes here? and, to my > view, it starts becoming more and more vividly and visually insignificant > commodity compared to other more serious demands in our lives. > > all the best and thank you again! > Anna > > > > > On 23 Mar 2018, at 06:31, Annalisa Aguilar wrote: > > > > Hello skeptics and venerable others, > > > > > > Advocating for ignorance is one thing, but let's not get up on our high > horses, shall we? > > > > > > It is really easy for people to dismiss changing paradigms, and then the > tide comes in and increases to a depth where one is caught unawares. I > would say this is the moment you might be paying attention and watching > what is happening and make your own connections. This is the only reason I > made the post. > > > > > > Namely: make your own connections. Play with the tools, see what they > can and cannot do. Study them. Improve them. Discuss their merits and their > shortcomings. But be involved! > > > > > > Thomas Edison once thought that motion pictures would end the > traditional forms of teaching and instruction, and he ended up being wrong, > but there is something that enriched learning by having media like film > available to classroom instruction. Or just being exposed to worldviews > through the eyes of another. > > > > > > If you do not mind, I would push back to the push back that we actually > do know how to make learning happen on these platforms, and we are learning > what works and what doesn't. People have been doing that for a long while > now. It's likely different. I never said it was the same or better. I don't > need a degree to sort out that this isn't the same as a core > college-lecture-hall-delivered course, or a tutorial with a one-on-on > tutor, or anything on that spectrum. > > > > > > I do not see it replacing classroom teaching, like Edison did; I see it > as *different*. That's all. Offering learning in a different package. There > is no one way of learning. > > > > > > Here's the thing: For real niche classes it's possible to create > innovative coursework because the constraints are simply not there. > > > > > > (For example check out GCAS) > > > > see: https://thegcas.org/welcome > > > > > > They have Alain Bardieu as their university president. > > > > https://thegcas.org/alain-badiou > > > > > > The founder is Creston Davis: > > > > https://thegcas.org/creston-davis > > > > > > This online university is a very intriguing innovation because they are > starting centers all over the world. The online presence is a way of > connecting them together. > > > > They have also begun a new concept called a blockchain university: > > > > "GCAS is forming a Blockchain University in Ireland so students can earn > money pursuing their degrees and when they graduate they become co-owners." > > > > > > These are great ideas! Will they work? I don't know. But can't you > admire these innovators for trying to get out from under the neoliberal > yoke that has dominated so many universities? > > > > > > I want to make clear that I'm not saying this is the ultimate > bread-slicer. I'm saying here is evidence of people putting their careers > on the line and making something happen, and trying to do something else > for the very reason they are upset with where university education is going. > > > > > > Will it work? How should I know. Typically in evolutionary processes, > experimentation and imagination are critical to moving forward and enabling > new paradigms to develop. What is wrong with that? > > > > > > Study the experiment and make it better. > > > > > > Just because Open Source MOOCs show a hokey rendition of online learning > doesn't mean online learning does not work and should be totally dismissed. > I'm really surprise to hear so much skepticism. > > > > > > I do agree that the marketing is silly (particularly with the idea of an > business entrepreneur living on a yacht in the carribean! That is just dumb > marketing from a low-imagination vantage point). Don't get so caught in > those details. Try to consider the implications. Or don't. > > > > > > The idea is this: This absolutely can be a way for an educator to be > innovative and fund one's own research using existing know-how and > expertise in teaching. If course material is created with video lectures, > homework, and quizzes, the learning involved can ultimately reach many > people all over the world. No traditional university has ever been able to > do that. > > > > > > Once a curriculum is created, that can be online in perpetuity, and > people can purchase the access to the course as long as it is current. Or > it can be distributed free, or with a request for a donation to pay what > you want to pay. > > > > > > Imagine if Vygotsky had done effective online learning using his > theories, and we could access his original lectures 100 years after he is > gone. Imagine that the rights to the material could continue to his estate > or to the public. It certainly couldn't have been banned. > > > > > > The point is there are better choices today (than say 10 years ago) and > a wider distribution when it comes to online learning. > > > > > > The problem with most online platforms is that the designers and > programmers typically do not confer with instructors, tutors, or teachers, > when they design the platform software. From what I have seen, Blackboard > being the absolute worst, Academy of Mine is effectively removing the > complexity of putting courses online and providing instructors a revenue > stream. I'm still learning about it, but it's actually pretty good. It is > effectively cutting out fat-cat administrators and the university's demands > for a lion's share of research funds or other forms of financial support. > > > > > > What if you all could be funded by your students tuition directly to do > the research that you wanted? And your findings could be produced as online > lectures that go directly to the public at large? It starts a virtuous > cycle upwards. It's a different form of publishing your work. > > > > > > Would you want to be an independent researcher? Or do you need to have > the security blanket of an established university who will not allow you to > teach the topics you want in the way you want to teach them? > > > > > > There are 7.6 billion people on the planet, and they say half of them > are on the Internet. That's 3.8 billion. What if you had an audience of > 200,000 for your well-produced online course? If they paid you $1.00 that > would be $200K going to you, with a small percentage of that going to your > production costs, and payment acquisition. Even if 25% went to that, that's > still $175K to you, far better than the typical university salary. And this > is just for one class. > > > > > > Isn't THE POINT of tenure track positions to ensure academic freedom? > Tenured positions are disappearing, they likely aren't coming back. I am > sad about this, but what can be done if the paradigm is dying? Universities > are replacing tenure track professorships with adjuncts, didn't you know? > > > > > > This possibility might just be a way to push back, by just doing your > own school, or an academy of yours. Just like you would write your own > book. What if you could design your own curriculums, isn't that the freedom > that you want? What would that look like? > > > > > > With regards to an LMS vs learning. I didn't say that the LMS was > learning. It's just a publishing tool, and it's up to the educators to find > a way to use them. What is wrong about that? > > > > > > That's like saying a book isn't learning. Who doesn't know that? And a > big book isn't more learning than a small one. The book is simply a tool > for distribution and the book is one component used to aid in learning. Why > can't the same be said for an LMS? Why couldn't it be a way that makes it > easy for instructors to ensure payment for their hard work? Like publishing > a book? > > > > > > I'm not really surprised by the negativity. I am surprised by the lack > of imagination. > > > > > > Put your thinking caps on! > > > > > > How could this actually work and be rewarding for all involved? You > can't tell me there is no way? > > > > > > Is that what you are saying? > > > > > > Kind regards, > > > > > > Annalisa > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Greg Mcverry > > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2018 9:21:14 AM > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: A new-ish learning platform that may be a way to > save adjuncts? > > > > Advocating for ignorance always seems to be a strange position to take. > > Though it is a position those in power have often adopted through out > > history. > > > > I would also push back that we have no idea how to to make learning > happen > > in these environments. What we might say is we have no way how to make > > learning happen in these ways that is both scalable and profitable with > > hockey stick growth. > > > > There are many folks in Open Source communities who have long created > > classes nothing like MOOCs. What is StackOverflow but a large (and > > sometimes rude) learning community? Cormier's #Rhizo classes, #DS106, > > #walkmyworld are all small scale classes in the education and art spaces > > that have been researched (though more comparative case studies and > > autoenthographies). > > > > I also think we need to stop the false distinction between our offline > and > > offline learning environments. I think part of the reason hybrid learning > > comes out favorably in meta-analysis isn't just because of the role of > the > > instructor but the computer aided yet tactile environment is an > interesting > > artifacts of tools. > > > > Finally the only way an app would help adjuncts would be if it had two > > buttons, "Pay me a living wage" and "create a "Tenure Track Position" > > > > On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 2:44 PM Glassman, Michael > > wrote: > > > >> Hi Annalisa and all others interested, > >> > >> Thanks for the link to the video, but I have to say it is pretty > >> problematic. First it calls itself a learning management system when it > >> really has nothing to do with learning. It is instead a course > management > >> system. So why do people use the phrase learning management systems - > >> because companies that sell learning management systems want them to. > >> > >> The distinction is important because while all this hardware and > software > >> is really wowsa, we pretty much have little idea how to use it to create > >> actual learning experiences. We just think it will happen because > person A > >> has knowledge, person B could use knowledge, transfer knowledge, done > and > >> done. I tend to think of the transfer model as being not very good as a > >> teaching learning model. But there are a whole bunch of other issues > which > >> we are just beginning to explore like teacher presence in online > >> situations, student relatedness (the four walls actually do play a > part), > >> individual agency, collective/collaborative agency, cognitive presences > - > >> the list just goes on. The guy on the boat (you have to watch the > video) > >> probably isn't going to be that successful. Who is going to be > successful > >> - why academy of mine will be! > >> > >> We went through this with xMOOCs. I'm old enough to remember when they > >> were going to be the new model for education. I still have discussions > >> with people who say MOOCs do good things. They reach all these people > with > >> information from experts. I ask, is there a good thing? People say, of > >> course it's a good thing. I ask is there any evidence of this? They say > >> well it's better than not reaching them with information. I ask are you > >> sure. There actually is some evidence that it's not that good a thing > from > >> Participatory Action Research. I think one of the things we have to > >> question ourselves about is why this sounds so good to us. > >> > >> This is not to say the Internet is not going to have stunning effects on > >> the way we teach and learn. We need to do the hard work of figuring why > >> and how. But this.... > >> > >> > >> Michael > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto: > >> xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Annalisa Aguilar > >> Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2018 12:56 PM > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] A new-ish learning platform that may be a way to save > >> adjuncts? > >> > >> Hello Xmcars, > >> > >> > >> A few days ago I learned about this new online learning platform > "Academy > >> Of Mine" > >> > >> > >> I think that it portends what future learning might entail. It may be a > >> way of bypassing the calcified learning patterns that no one seems to be > >> able to escape, thanks to the neoliberalization of higher learning. > >> > >> > >> This platform is also about doing business in education, but something > >> about it seems more palatable than paying presidents and other > >> administrators several hundred thousand dollar salaries to run a > university. > >> > >> > >> Here is an intro video for the platform, which I think is using > wordpress > >> for its online architecture. > >> > >> https://vimeo.com/92334633 > >> > >> [https://www.bing.com/th?id=OVP.rKgA__knRtrA5l2yfST4XAEsCo&pid=Api]< > >> https://vimeo.com/92334633> > >> > >> All-In-One Learning-Management-System - Academy Of Mine< > >> https://vimeo.com/92334633> vimeo.com If you're going to be offering a > >> course online you'll need Learning Management System Software (LMS) for > >> your online educational environment. But if you're an ... > >> > >> This might be a way in particular for adjuncts to "hold on" to their > >> course material, and perhaps at some point monetize their courses in > such a > >> way they can create another income stream. > >> > >> > >> I've not really thought this through, but I think this could be > >> paradigm-changing because Academy of Mine seems to really address the > >> technology difficulties for non-technical instructors and teachers. > >> > >> > >> I am curious what you think. > >> > >> > >> I am not affiliated with Academy of Mine, but I have an opportunity to > use > >> the platform and am just learnign about it. I was so impressed I > thought I > >> would let you all take a look. > >> > >> > >> It might make possible courses that are hybird in nature, and it could > >> possibly make experimental learning easier to set up, which would allow > >> educators to do the things they have always known works with successful > >> learning experiences, and just walk around the Maginot Line of > university > >> hegemonies. > >> > >> > >> Kind regards, > >> > >> > >> Annalisa > >> > >> > >> > > > -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson From glassman.13@osu.edu Fri Mar 23 05:33:01 2018 From: glassman.13@osu.edu (Glassman, Michael) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2018 12:33:01 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: A new-ish learning platform that may be a way to save adjuncts? In-Reply-To: References: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF4719@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu>, Message-ID: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF69E9@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> Hi Annalisa, Just a bit of pushback on your pushback. Honestly I don't think I'm a skeptic. I've been exploring the possible role of the Internet in education for the last fifteen years. Sat down and wrote a book on it. I honestly thing the Internet has the opportunity to revolutionize education. But the penetration of social spheres by Internet technologies has been incredibly fast and we really need to try and understand much more quickly than we have had to do with any other change in humanity. What is really, really important is that we not get caught up in what some have called tech utopianism. That the technologies will solve our problems simply because it is there as technology. I think of two presentations that have had an enormous impact both on these new information technologies and the way we think about them. The first was by a person (a lab) that invented almost everything you use today in information technologies. You probably don't know his name, maybe you do, Douglas Engelbart. In his aptly named mother of all demos he presented work that his team at the Augmentation Research Center had been working on for more than five years. If you watch it (you can find it on Youtube) he was incredibly careful and humble. He understood how much work would follow. The second was by Steve Jobs introducing the McIntosh. The McIntosh wasn't much of a breakthrough really but Jobs introduced it as the greatest thing ever in a breathless performance. Of course we remember Job and not Engelbart, but I feel we would be much better off if Engelbart was our guiding spirit - not much of a Hollywood hero. The importance of being hopeful but very careful is obvious in another venue of Internet technology, Facebook. What could be bad about Facebook. We are finding out what could be bad and perhaps it is only going to get worse. I worry we are going to go through something similar with autonomous vehicles. And I think as academics we have an important responsibility for being circumspect and humble in implementation of technologies. Especially important because I believe, if we are careful, it is going to be revolutionary. One of the big problems though is that even many academics (especially university presidents) are forging ahead based on Steve Jobs type presentations, what they hear at cocktail parties, and warnings that if they don't move immediately (often without thoughts) they are luddites (and of course the fact the technologies can save money, because we want education as cheap as possible - don't believe me look at the white paper out of Columbia on MOOCs). So in the spirit of Engelbart, "For real niche classes it's possible to create innovative coursework because the constraints are simply not there." Of course this type of technology also creates constraints. Why in balance do you think that technology would help make these classes better. I mean yes, they are cheaper, but is it a good thing to make the argument that education should be cheaper. (Let's also remember that currently education isn't expensive for students because that is its natural state, it is because our society currently refuses to invest in it). On your "offering learning in a different package." Yes, I agree. But why are LMCs good packages (I know you are ambivalent about LMCs later, but in general why would any package be a good package for education. I am especially concerned when people have an economic advantage in a particular package.) I looked at GCAS and read some on it. In some ways they look interesting, but I couldn't quite figure out their model. I don't think it's blockchain. That's kind of gibberish using the hot new word in technology which they may be using without understanding it because it helps them sell, which worries me. I guess I could go on. But I think the focus of my answer is we need to be hopeful, but we also need to be humble and careful. Let's use theory and empirical evidence to move forward when we can. We should be especially wary of Steve Jobs type presentations (the biggest thing since WWII!!!), and especially wary of anybody who uses the phrase blockchain. Michael -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Annalisa Aguilar Sent: Friday, March 23, 2018 1:31 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: A new-ish learning platform that may be a way to save adjuncts? Hello skeptics and venerable others, Advocating for ignorance is one thing, but let's not get up on our high horses, shall we? It is really easy for people to dismiss changing paradigms, and then the tide comes in and increases to a depth where one is caught unawares. I would say this is the moment you might be paying attention and watching what is happening and make your own connections. This is the only reason I made the post. Namely: make your own connections. Play with the tools, see what they can and cannot do. Study them. Improve them. Discuss their merits and their shortcomings. But be involved! Thomas Edison once thought that motion pictures would end the traditional forms of teaching and instruction, and he ended up being wrong, but there is something that enriched learning by having media like film available to classroom instruction. Or just being exposed to worldviews through the eyes of another. If you do not mind, I would push back to the push back that we actually do know how to make learning happen on these platforms, and we are learning what works and what doesn't. People have been doing that for a long while now. It's likely different. I never said it was the same or better. I don't need a degree to sort out that this isn't the same as a core college-lecture-hall-delivered course, or a tutorial with a one-on-on tutor, or anything on that spectrum. I do not see it replacing classroom teaching, like Edison did; I see it as *different*. That's all. Offering learning in a different package. There is no one way of learning. Here's the thing: For real niche classes it's possible to create innovative coursework because the constraints are simply not there. (For example check out GCAS) see: https://thegcas.org/welcome They have Alain Bardieu as their university president. https://thegcas.org/alain-badiou The founder is Creston Davis: https://thegcas.org/creston-davis This online university is a very intriguing innovation because they are starting centers all over the world. The online presence is a way of connecting them together. They have also begun a new concept called a blockchain university: "GCAS is forming a Blockchain University in Ireland so students can earn money pursuing their degrees and when they graduate they become co-owners." These are great ideas! Will they work? I don't know. But can't you admire these innovators for trying to get out from under the neoliberal yoke that has dominated so many universities? I want to make clear that I'm not saying this is the ultimate bread-slicer. I'm saying here is evidence of people putting their careers on the line and making something happen, and trying to do something else for the very reason they are upset with where university education is going. Will it work? How should I know. Typically in evolutionary processes, experimentation and imagination are critical to moving forward and enabling new paradigms to develop. What is wrong with that? Study the experiment and make it better. Just because Open Source MOOCs show a hokey rendition of online learning doesn't mean online learning does not work and should be totally dismissed. I'm really surprise to hear so much skepticism. I do agree that the marketing is silly (particularly with the idea of an business entrepreneur living on a yacht in the carribean! That is just dumb marketing from a low-imagination vantage point). Don't get so caught in those details. Try to consider the implications. Or don't. The idea is this: This absolutely can be a way for an educator to be innovative and fund one's own research using existing know-how and expertise in teaching. If course material is created with video lectures, homework, and quizzes, the learning involved can ultimately reach many people all over the world. No traditional university has ever been able to do that. Once a curriculum is created, that can be online in perpetuity, and people can purchase the access to the course as long as it is current. Or it can be distributed free, or with a request for a donation to pay what you want to pay. Imagine if Vygotsky had done effective online learning using his theories, and we could access his original lectures 100 years after he is gone. Imagine that the rights to the material could continue to his estate or to the public. It certainly couldn't have been banned. The point is there are better choices today (than say 10 years ago) and a wider distribution when it comes to online learning. The problem with most online platforms is that the designers and programmers typically do not confer with instructors, tutors, or teachers, when they design the platform software. From what I have seen, Blackboard being the absolute worst, Academy of Mine is effectively removing the complexity of putting courses online and providing instructors a revenue stream. I'm still learning about it, but it's actually pretty good. It is effectively cutting out fat-cat administrators and the university's demands for a lion's share of research funds or other forms of financial support. What if you all could be funded by your students tuition directly to do the research that you wanted? And your findings could be produced as online lectures that go directly to the public at large? It starts a virtuous cycle upwards. It's a different form of publishing your work. Would you want to be an independent researcher? Or do you need to have the security blanket of an established university who will not allow you to teach the topics you want in the way you want to teach them? There are 7.6 billion people on the planet, and they say half of them are on the Internet. That's 3.8 billion. What if you had an audience of 200,000 for your well-produced online course? If they paid you $1.00 that would be $200K going to you, with a small percentage of that going to your production costs, and payment acquisition. Even if 25% went to that, that's still $175K to you, far better than the typical university salary. And this is just for one class. Isn't THE POINT of tenure track positions to ensure academic freedom? Tenured positions are disappearing, they likely aren't coming back. I am sad about this, but what can be done if the paradigm is dying? Universities are replacing tenure track professorships with adjuncts, didn't you know? This possibility might just be a way to push back, by just doing your own school, or an academy of yours. Just like you would write your own book. What if you could design your own curriculums, isn't that the freedom that you want? What would that look like? With regards to an LMS vs learning. I didn't say that the LMS was learning. It's just a publishing tool, and it's up to the educators to find a way to use them. What is wrong about that? That's like saying a book isn't learning. Who doesn't know that? And a big book isn't more learning than a small one. The book is simply a tool for distribution and the book is one component used to aid in learning. Why can't the same be said for an LMS? Why couldn't it be a way that makes it easy for instructors to ensure payment for their hard work? Like publishing a book? I'm not really surprised by the negativity. I am surprised by the lack of imagination. Put your thinking caps on! How could this actually work and be rewarding for all involved? You can't tell me there is no way? Is that what you are saying? Kind regards, Annalisa ________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Greg Mcverry Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2018 9:21:14 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: A new-ish learning platform that may be a way to save adjuncts? Advocating for ignorance always seems to be a strange position to take. Though it is a position those in power have often adopted through out history. I would also push back that we have no idea how to to make learning happen in these environments. What we might say is we have no way how to make learning happen in these ways that is both scalable and profitable with hockey stick growth. There are many folks in Open Source communities who have long created classes nothing like MOOCs. What is StackOverflow but a large (and sometimes rude) learning community? Cormier's #Rhizo classes, #DS106, #walkmyworld are all small scale classes in the education and art spaces that have been researched (though more comparative case studies and autoenthographies). I also think we need to stop the false distinction between our offline and offline learning environments. I think part of the reason hybrid learning comes out favorably in meta-analysis isn't just because of the role of the instructor but the computer aided yet tactile environment is an interesting artifacts of tools. Finally the only way an app would help adjuncts would be if it had two buttons, "Pay me a living wage" and "create a "Tenure Track Position" On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 2:44 PM Glassman, Michael wrote: > Hi Annalisa and all others interested, > > Thanks for the link to the video, but I have to say it is pretty > problematic. First it calls itself a learning management system when > it really has nothing to do with learning. It is instead a course > management system. So why do people use the phrase learning > management systems - because companies that sell learning management systems want them to. > > The distinction is important because while all this hardware and > software is really wowsa, we pretty much have little idea how to use > it to create actual learning experiences. We just think it will happen > because person A has knowledge, person B could use knowledge, transfer > knowledge, done and done. I tend to think of the transfer model as > being not very good as a teaching learning model. But there are a > whole bunch of other issues which we are just beginning to explore > like teacher presence in online situations, student relatedness (the > four walls actually do play a part), individual agency, > collective/collaborative agency, cognitive presences - the list just > goes on. The guy on the boat (you have to watch the video) probably > isn't going to be that successful. Who is going to be successful > - why academy of mine will be! > > We went through this with xMOOCs. I'm old enough to remember when they > were going to be the new model for education. I still have > discussions with people who say MOOCs do good things. They reach all > these people with information from experts. I ask, is there a good > thing? People say, of course it's a good thing. I ask is there any > evidence of this? They say well it's better than not reaching them > with information. I ask are you sure. There actually is some evidence > that it's not that good a thing from Participatory Action Research. I > think one of the things we have to question ourselves about is why this sounds so good to us. > > This is not to say the Internet is not going to have stunning effects > on the way we teach and learn. We need to do the hard work of > figuring why and how. But this.... > > > Michael > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto: > xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Annalisa Aguilar > Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2018 12:56 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] A new-ish learning platform that may be a way to > save adjuncts? > > Hello Xmcars, > > > A few days ago I learned about this new online learning platform > "Academy Of Mine" > > > I think that it portends what future learning might entail. It may be > a way of bypassing the calcified learning patterns that no one seems > to be able to escape, thanks to the neoliberalization of higher learning. > > > This platform is also about doing business in education, but something > about it seems more palatable than paying presidents and other > administrators several hundred thousand dollar salaries to run a university. > > > Here is an intro video for the platform, which I think is using > wordpress for its online architecture. > > https://vimeo.com/92334633 > > [https://www.bing.com/th?id=OVP.rKgA__knRtrA5l2yfST4XAEsCo&pid=Api]< > https://vimeo.com/92334633> > > All-In-One Learning-Management-System - Academy Of Mine< > https://vimeo.com/92334633> vimeo.com If you're going to be offering a > course online you'll need Learning Management System Software (LMS) > for your online educational environment. But if you're an ... > > This might be a way in particular for adjuncts to "hold on" to their > course material, and perhaps at some point monetize their courses in > such a way they can create another income stream. > > > I've not really thought this through, but I think this could be > paradigm-changing because Academy of Mine seems to really address the > technology difficulties for non-technical instructors and teachers. > > > I am curious what you think. > > > I am not affiliated with Academy of Mine, but I have an opportunity to > use the platform and am just learnign about it. I was so impressed I > thought I would let you all take a look. > > > It might make possible courses that are hybird in nature, and it could > possibly make experimental learning easier to set up, which would > allow educators to do the things they have always known works with > successful learning experiences, and just walk around the Maginot Line > of university hegemonies. > > > Kind regards, > > > Annalisa > > > From annalisa@unm.edu Fri Mar 23 09:23:33 2018 From: annalisa@unm.edu (Annalisa Aguilar) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2018 16:23:33 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: A new-ish learning platform that may be a way to save adjuncts? In-Reply-To: References: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF4719@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <5FCEFE09-3B73-4C99-A63B-3DDB5C02A441@uth.gr>, Message-ID: Thanks Greg and Anna, and salutations to others, Thanks so much for the discussion. I agree that one of the unattended issues is not about how much money one could make doing one's own courses. They spend a lot of time on the idea of raining money in that promotion video. But try to look past that. (And yes, commodification of anything tends to suck the valuable essence out of things). We have the world we are given and we must try to transform it with the soil and seeds that we have here. Let's not wait for Godot. Why not start an accreditation association, something like TrustE does for vetting responsible websites. If you have been accredited, then it can attest for quality. Certainly this isn't far from the peer review model. To speak to Greg's skeptic, there is already a form of this market pressure and commodification of "sexy" courses in universities, in terms of any course offering and getting enough students to sign up. If you don't have enough that sign up, the university cancels the class, which puts professors in a bind with teaching requirements. That dynamic is already there. But if a professor had a core class that contained lessons that don't need updating all that much, that frees up a lot of time that the professor can spend working more closely with students, one-on-one, because the time to organize and produce coursework has been negotiated and processed already. This seems to be a more personable way of teaching, where the website platform is just another kind of book that the professor teaches from. Just like GCAS is creating a collective of educators all over the world, professors can travel and teach anywhere and as more time goes one, the itinerant sage can meet all sorts of diverse students, and other teachers in conferences, who have come to appreciate what they offer in the learning traditions. Conferences are already an established academic forum. I don't really understand the contract labor argument because that is already happening with adjuncts in established universities, and we already know what is wrong about that. I don't think academics write books because they are contracting their labor for constructing interesting and entertaining sentences. But there is nothing keeping people from creating collectives and establishing their own associations and promoting themselves as a school of thought coming from a particular lineage or tradition of learning. These alternatives are just not associated with a brick and mortar institution. These are some imaginings. What do you think? If you could prefigure your desired educational forum, what would that look like? If you could have your own research institute, and study what you wanted, what would that look like? You must have many many ideas! How about we hear about that? I'd love to know what they are. I'm sure there can be really exciting conversations on that topic alone. Kind regards, Annalisa ________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Greg Thompson Sent: Friday, March 23, 2018 5:22:14 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: A new-ish learning platform that may be a way to save adjuncts? Annalisa, I have two thoughts, the supportive and the skeptic: 1. The supportive: If you feel confident that great things can be done with this, then go out and do it! Be the change and all that. (I would add that self-publishing a textbook, e.g. as a pdf that you sell for $30 or so, can be another way to gain an income from even a free online course - if you can get 100 students each time you teach a course and they all have to buy your textbook, then that's $3,000). 2. The skeptic: My caution would be that this is still caught up in neoliberalism and perhaps the worst form of it - the contract laborer selling their wares. This means that you are subject to the whims and interests of the student-as-consumer. The precarity of this arrangement is one thing, but the real trouble is that the student-as-consumer's desires are what drives education. That means that adjuncts teaching programming will probably do a lot better than adjuncts teaching Vygotsky. But that seems like an empirical question, so prove me wrong! Both points seem to come down to: discover what can be done and we will be convinced (and note that this is coming from naysayers who are implicated in the system that is being disrupted by these new technologies, so perhaps the worst people to talk to about such an idea!). -greg On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 12:54 AM, Anna Chronaki wrote: > Thank you Annalisa! > > This seems like a serious grassroots movement, but one that, nevertheless, > uses again the intellectuals and their ?power? to do things with us all and > mainly with students. > > As you say, these all initiatives cannot be ignored, but a closer analysis > seems necessary. Do they actually emancipate people? Or, do they work > within the circle of neoliberal and market related practices of need today? > > For example, when one sees that a Deleuzian interactive seminar costs 50 > Euros or dollars, why then to bother buying a book or turn to study a > theory?? the whole story of knowledge and studying changes here? and, to my > view, it starts becoming more and more vividly and visually insignificant > commodity compared to other more serious demands in our lives. > > all the best and thank you again! > Anna > > > > > On 23 Mar 2018, at 06:31, Annalisa Aguilar wrote: > > > > Hello skeptics and venerable others, > > > > > > Advocating for ignorance is one thing, but let's not get up on our high > horses, shall we? > > > > > > It is really easy for people to dismiss changing paradigms, and then the > tide comes in and increases to a depth where one is caught unawares. I > would say this is the moment you might be paying attention and watching > what is happening and make your own connections. This is the only reason I > made the post. > > > > > > Namely: make your own connections. Play with the tools, see what they > can and cannot do. Study them. Improve them. Discuss their merits and their > shortcomings. But be involved! > > > > > > Thomas Edison once thought that motion pictures would end the > traditional forms of teaching and instruction, and he ended up being wrong, > but there is something that enriched learning by having media like film > available to classroom instruction. Or just being exposed to worldviews > through the eyes of another. > > > > > > If you do not mind, I would push back to the push back that we actually > do know how to make learning happen on these platforms, and we are learning > what works and what doesn't. People have been doing that for a long while > now. It's likely different. I never said it was the same or better. I don't > need a degree to sort out that this isn't the same as a core > college-lecture-hall-delivered course, or a tutorial with a one-on-on > tutor, or anything on that spectrum. > > > > > > I do not see it replacing classroom teaching, like Edison did; I see it > as *different*. That's all. Offering learning in a different package. There > is no one way of learning. > > > > > > Here's the thing: For real niche classes it's possible to create > innovative coursework because the constraints are simply not there. > > > > > > (For example check out GCAS) > > > > see: https://thegcas.org/welcome > > > > > > They have Alain Bardieu as their university president. > > > > https://thegcas.org/alain-badiou > > > > > > The founder is Creston Davis: > > > > https://thegcas.org/creston-davis > > > > > > This online university is a very intriguing innovation because they are > starting centers all over the world. The online presence is a way of > connecting them together. > > > > They have also begun a new concept called a blockchain university: > > > > "GCAS is forming a Blockchain University in Ireland so students can earn > money pursuing their degrees and when they graduate they become co-owners." > > > > > > These are great ideas! Will they work? I don't know. But can't you > admire these innovators for trying to get out from under the neoliberal > yoke that has dominated so many universities? > > > > > > I want to make clear that I'm not saying this is the ultimate > bread-slicer. I'm saying here is evidence of people putting their careers > on the line and making something happen, and trying to do something else > for the very reason they are upset with where university education is going. > > > > > > Will it work? How should I know. Typically in evolutionary processes, > experimentation and imagination are critical to moving forward and enabling > new paradigms to develop. What is wrong with that? > > > > > > Study the experiment and make it better. > > > > > > Just because Open Source MOOCs show a hokey rendition of online learning > doesn't mean online learning does not work and should be totally dismissed. > I'm really surprise to hear so much skepticism. > > > > > > I do agree that the marketing is silly (particularly with the idea of an > business entrepreneur living on a yacht in the carribean! That is just dumb > marketing from a low-imagination vantage point). Don't get so caught in > those details. Try to consider the implications. Or don't. > > > > > > The idea is this: This absolutely can be a way for an educator to be > innovative and fund one's own research using existing know-how and > expertise in teaching. If course material is created with video lectures, > homework, and quizzes, the learning involved can ultimately reach many > people all over the world. No traditional university has ever been able to > do that. > > > > > > Once a curriculum is created, that can be online in perpetuity, and > people can purchase the access to the course as long as it is current. Or > it can be distributed free, or with a request for a donation to pay what > you want to pay. > > > > > > Imagine if Vygotsky had done effective online learning using his > theories, and we could access his original lectures 100 years after he is > gone. Imagine that the rights to the material could continue to his estate > or to the public. It certainly couldn't have been banned. > > > > > > The point is there are better choices today (than say 10 years ago) and > a wider distribution when it comes to online learning. > > > > > > The problem with most online platforms is that the designers and > programmers typically do not confer with instructors, tutors, or teachers, > when they design the platform software. From what I have seen, Blackboard > being the absolute worst, Academy of Mine is effectively removing the > complexity of putting courses online and providing instructors a revenue > stream. I'm still learning about it, but it's actually pretty good. It is > effectively cutting out fat-cat administrators and the university's demands > for a lion's share of research funds or other forms of financial support. > > > > > > What if you all could be funded by your students tuition directly to do > the research that you wanted? And your findings could be produced as online > lectures that go directly to the public at large? It starts a virtuous > cycle upwards. It's a different form of publishing your work. > > > > > > Would you want to be an independent researcher? Or do you need to have > the security blanket of an established university who will not allow you to > teach the topics you want in the way you want to teach them? > > > > > > There are 7.6 billion people on the planet, and they say half of them > are on the Internet. That's 3.8 billion. What if you had an audience of > 200,000 for your well-produced online course? If they paid you $1.00 that > would be $200K going to you, with a small percentage of that going to your > production costs, and payment acquisition. Even if 25% went to that, that's > still $175K to you, far better than the typical university salary. And this > is just for one class. > > > > > > Isn't THE POINT of tenure track positions to ensure academic freedom? > Tenured positions are disappearing, they likely aren't coming back. I am > sad about this, but what can be done if the paradigm is dying? Universities > are replacing tenure track professorships with adjuncts, didn't you know? > > > > > > This possibility might just be a way to push back, by just doing your > own school, or an academy of yours. Just like you would write your own > book. What if you could design your own curriculums, isn't that the freedom > that you want? What would that look like? > > > > > > With regards to an LMS vs learning. I didn't say that the LMS was > learning. It's just a publishing tool, and it's up to the educators to find > a way to use them. What is wrong about that? > > > > > > That's like saying a book isn't learning. Who doesn't know that? And a > big book isn't more learning than a small one. The book is simply a tool > for distribution and the book is one component used to aid in learning. Why > can't the same be said for an LMS? Why couldn't it be a way that makes it > easy for instructors to ensure payment for their hard work? Like publishing > a book? > > > > > > I'm not really surprised by the negativity. I am surprised by the lack > of imagination. > > > > > > Put your thinking caps on! > > > > > > How could this actually work and be rewarding for all involved? You > can't tell me there is no way? > > > > > > Is that what you are saying? > > > > > > Kind regards, > > > > > > Annalisa > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Greg Mcverry > > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2018 9:21:14 AM > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: A new-ish learning platform that may be a way to > save adjuncts? > > > > Advocating for ignorance always seems to be a strange position to take. > > Though it is a position those in power have often adopted through out > > history. > > > > I would also push back that we have no idea how to to make learning > happen > > in these environments. What we might say is we have no way how to make > > learning happen in these ways that is both scalable and profitable with > > hockey stick growth. > > > > There are many folks in Open Source communities who have long created > > classes nothing like MOOCs. What is StackOverflow but a large (and > > sometimes rude) learning community? Cormier's #Rhizo classes, #DS106, > > #walkmyworld are all small scale classes in the education and art spaces > > that have been researched (though more comparative case studies and > > autoenthographies). > > > > I also think we need to stop the false distinction between our offline > and > > offline learning environments. I think part of the reason hybrid learning > > comes out favorably in meta-analysis isn't just because of the role of > the > > instructor but the computer aided yet tactile environment is an > interesting > > artifacts of tools. > > > > Finally the only way an app would help adjuncts would be if it had two > > buttons, "Pay me a living wage" and "create a "Tenure Track Position" > > > > On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 2:44 PM Glassman, Michael > > wrote: > > > >> Hi Annalisa and all others interested, > >> > >> Thanks for the link to the video, but I have to say it is pretty > >> problematic. First it calls itself a learning management system when it > >> really has nothing to do with learning. It is instead a course > management > >> system. So why do people use the phrase learning management systems - > >> because companies that sell learning management systems want them to. > >> > >> The distinction is important because while all this hardware and > software > >> is really wowsa, we pretty much have little idea how to use it to create > >> actual learning experiences. We just think it will happen because > person A > >> has knowledge, person B could use knowledge, transfer knowledge, done > and > >> done. I tend to think of the transfer model as being not very good as a > >> teaching learning model. But there are a whole bunch of other issues > which > >> we are just beginning to explore like teacher presence in online > >> situations, student relatedness (the four walls actually do play a > part), > >> individual agency, collective/collaborative agency, cognitive presences > - > >> the list just goes on. The guy on the boat (you have to watch the > video) > >> probably isn't going to be that successful. Who is going to be > successful > >> - why academy of mine will be! > >> > >> We went through this with xMOOCs. I'm old enough to remember when they > >> were going to be the new model for education. I still have discussions > >> with people who say MOOCs do good things. They reach all these people > with > >> information from experts. I ask, is there a good thing? People say, of > >> course it's a good thing. I ask is there any evidence of this? They say > >> well it's better than not reaching them with information. I ask are you > >> sure. There actually is some evidence that it's not that good a thing > from > >> Participatory Action Research. I think one of the things we have to > >> question ourselves about is why this sounds so good to us. > >> > >> This is not to say the Internet is not going to have stunning effects on > >> the way we teach and learn. We need to do the hard work of figuring why > >> and how. But this.... > >> > >> > >> Michael > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto: > >> xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Annalisa Aguilar > >> Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2018 12:56 PM > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] A new-ish learning platform that may be a way to save > >> adjuncts? > >> > >> Hello Xmcars, > >> > >> > >> A few days ago I learned about this new online learning platform > "Academy > >> Of Mine" > >> > >> > >> I think that it portends what future learning might entail. It may be a > >> way of bypassing the calcified learning patterns that no one seems to be > >> able to escape, thanks to the neoliberalization of higher learning. > >> > >> > >> This platform is also about doing business in education, but something > >> about it seems more palatable than paying presidents and other > >> administrators several hundred thousand dollar salaries to run a > university. > >> > >> > >> Here is an intro video for the platform, which I think is using > wordpress > >> for its online architecture. > >> > >> https://vimeo.com/92334633 > >> > >> [https://www.bing.com/th?id=OVP.rKgA__knRtrA5l2yfST4XAEsCo&pid=Api]< > >> https://vimeo.com/92334633> > >> > >> All-In-One Learning-Management-System - Academy Of Mine< > >> https://vimeo.com/92334633> vimeo.com If you're going to be offering a > >> course online you'll need Learning Management System Software (LMS) for > >> your online educational environment. But if you're an ... > >> > >> This might be a way in particular for adjuncts to "hold on" to their > >> course material, and perhaps at some point monetize their courses in > such a > >> way they can create another income stream. > >> > >> > >> I've not really thought this through, but I think this could be > >> paradigm-changing because Academy of Mine seems to really address the > >> technology difficulties for non-technical instructors and teachers. > >> > >> > >> I am curious what you think. > >> > >> > >> I am not affiliated with Academy of Mine, but I have an opportunity to > use > >> the platform and am just learnign about it. I was so impressed I > thought I > >> would let you all take a look. > >> > >> > >> It might make possible courses that are hybird in nature, and it could > >> possibly make experimental learning easier to set up, which would allow > >> educators to do the things they have always known works with successful > >> learning experiences, and just walk around the Maginot Line of > university > >> hegemonies. > >> > >> > >> Kind regards, > >> > >> > >> Annalisa > >> > >> > >> > > > -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Fri Mar 23 10:27:23 2018 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2018 17:27:23 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: A new-ish learning platform that may be a way to save adjuncts? In-Reply-To: References: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF4719@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <5FCEFE09-3B73-4C99-A63B-3DDB5C02A441@uth.gr>, , Message-ID: <1521826043552.65722@iped.uio.no> Thanks for posing those questions and inviting everyone to share visions, Annalisa. Mine will sound like a clich? to many here, familiar to the sort of discourse that emerged around situative learning theories on learning as apprenticeship... But, that vision of research institutes as handcraft workshops, where more and less experienced apprentices participate together in doing a form of craft, is my vision. I am a newbie teacher and all my efforts go into thinking, "how can I make this lecture/class/seminar be a workshop useful for producing the sort of things I am producing?" I find this approach useful for three interconnected reasons: (1) it forces me to make the product of my craft, of my research activities, and therefore also the procedures, relevant not only to myself or academic journal readership. If whatever I am producing with my research is not relevant for the students, if it cannot be something that would engage 30+ people and make them want to learn the skills to come out with similar types of products, then probably I should reconsider my object of study/teaching. (2) it overcomes the commodification issue that has been discussed; for it is the craftmanship and skill what is offered, and that is not somehting that can be sold for "consumed", it is rather what sets production-consumption systems it is something that needs to be cultivated and that therefore generates culture. (3) Finally, I think that when you do (1) and (2) properly, then your research craftmanship, the practice you are setting up, cannot stay self-contained but needs to be some hybrid form of scholar and non-scholar work. Here in Reykjavik, for example, they run this platform-centre for supporting and investigating ICT and teaching that is hybrid in two senses: (i) first involving a digital forum as well as a set of physical meeting places in which teachers come to share, discuss, challenge, try out, teaching ideas, issues etc. and then (ii) hybrid because it is not teaching practice itself, nor is it scholar practice itself. It is not the scholars who organize the meetings, but the teachers, who actually come to the university not to get a degree, not even to get better at what they do, but rather to get better things done. That is a nice vision, I think. Alfredo Jornet ________________________________ New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and intransitive dimensions" Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Annalisa Aguilar Sent: 23 March 2018 17:23 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: A new-ish learning platform that may be a way to save adjuncts? Thanks Greg and Anna, and salutations to others, Thanks so much for the discussion. I agree that one of the unattended issues is not about how much money one could make doing one's own courses. They spend a lot of time on the idea of raining money in that promotion video. But try to look past that. (And yes, commodification of anything tends to suck the valuable essence out of things). We have the world we are given and we must try to transform it with the soil and seeds that we have here. Let's not wait for Godot. Why not start an accreditation association, something like TrustE does for vetting responsible websites. If you have been accredited, then it can attest for quality. Certainly this isn't far from the peer review model. To speak to Greg's skeptic, there is already a form of this market pressure and commodification of "sexy" courses in universities, in terms of any course offering and getting enough students to sign up. If you don't have enough that sign up, the university cancels the class, which puts professors in a bind with teaching requirements. That dynamic is already there. But if a professor had a core class that contained lessons that don't need updating all that much, that frees up a lot of time that the professor can spend working more closely with students, one-on-one, because the time to organize and produce coursework has been negotiated and processed already. This seems to be a more personable way of teaching, where the website platform is just another kind of book that the professor teaches from. Just like GCAS is creating a collective of educators all over the world, professors can travel and teach anywhere and as more time goes one, the itinerant sage can meet all sorts of diverse students, and other teachers in conferences, who have come to appreciate what they offer in the learning traditions. Conferences are already an established academic forum. I don't really understand the contract labor argument because that is already happening with adjuncts in established universities, and we already know what is wrong about that. I don't think academics write books because they are contracting their labor for constructing interesting and entertaining sentences. But there is nothing keeping people from creating collectives and establishing their own associations and promoting themselves as a school of thought coming from a particular lineage or tradition of learning. These alternatives are just not associated with a brick and mortar institution. These are some imaginings. What do you think? If you could prefigure your desired educational forum, what would that look like? If you could have your own research institute, and study what you wanted, what would that look like? You must have many many ideas! How about we hear about that? I'd love to know what they are. I'm sure there can be really exciting conversations on that topic alone. Kind regards, Annalisa ________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Greg Thompson Sent: Friday, March 23, 2018 5:22:14 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: A new-ish learning platform that may be a way to save adjuncts? Annalisa, I have two thoughts, the supportive and the skeptic: 1. The supportive: If you feel confident that great things can be done with this, then go out and do it! Be the change and all that. (I would add that self-publishing a textbook, e.g. as a pdf that you sell for $30 or so, can be another way to gain an income from even a free online course - if you can get 100 students each time you teach a course and they all have to buy your textbook, then that's $3,000). 2. The skeptic: My caution would be that this is still caught up in neoliberalism and perhaps the worst form of it - the contract laborer selling their wares. This means that you are subject to the whims and interests of the student-as-consumer. The precarity of this arrangement is one thing, but the real trouble is that the student-as-consumer's desires are what drives education. That means that adjuncts teaching programming will probably do a lot better than adjuncts teaching Vygotsky. But that seems like an empirical question, so prove me wrong! Both points seem to come down to: discover what can be done and we will be convinced (and note that this is coming from naysayers who are implicated in the system that is being disrupted by these new technologies, so perhaps the worst people to talk to about such an idea!). -greg On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 12:54 AM, Anna Chronaki wrote: > Thank you Annalisa! > > This seems like a serious grassroots movement, but one that, nevertheless, > uses again the intellectuals and their ?power? to do things with us all and > mainly with students. > > As you say, these all initiatives cannot be ignored, but a closer analysis > seems necessary. Do they actually emancipate people? Or, do they work > within the circle of neoliberal and market related practices of need today? > > For example, when one sees that a Deleuzian interactive seminar costs 50 > Euros or dollars, why then to bother buying a book or turn to study a > theory?? the whole story of knowledge and studying changes here? and, to my > view, it starts becoming more and more vividly and visually insignificant > commodity compared to other more serious demands in our lives. > > all the best and thank you again! > Anna > > > > > On 23 Mar 2018, at 06:31, Annalisa Aguilar wrote: > > > > Hello skeptics and venerable others, > > > > > > Advocating for ignorance is one thing, but let's not get up on our high > horses, shall we? > > > > > > It is really easy for people to dismiss changing paradigms, and then the > tide comes in and increases to a depth where one is caught unawares. I > would say this is the moment you might be paying attention and watching > what is happening and make your own connections. This is the only reason I > made the post. > > > > > > Namely: make your own connections. Play with the tools, see what they > can and cannot do. Study them. Improve them. Discuss their merits and their > shortcomings. But be involved! > > > > > > Thomas Edison once thought that motion pictures would end the > traditional forms of teaching and instruction, and he ended up being wrong, > but there is something that enriched learning by having media like film > available to classroom instruction. Or just being exposed to worldviews > through the eyes of another. > > > > > > If you do not mind, I would push back to the push back that we actually > do know how to make learning happen on these platforms, and we are learning > what works and what doesn't. People have been doing that for a long while > now. It's likely different. I never said it was the same or better. I don't > need a degree to sort out that this isn't the same as a core > college-lecture-hall-delivered course, or a tutorial with a one-on-on > tutor, or anything on that spectrum. > > > > > > I do not see it replacing classroom teaching, like Edison did; I see it > as *different*. That's all. Offering learning in a different package. There > is no one way of learning. > > > > > > Here's the thing: For real niche classes it's possible to create > innovative coursework because the constraints are simply not there. > > > > > > (For example check out GCAS) > > > > see: https://thegcas.org/welcome > > > > > > They have Alain Bardieu as their university president. > > > > https://thegcas.org/alain-badiou > > > > > > The founder is Creston Davis: > > > > https://thegcas.org/creston-davis > > > > > > This online university is a very intriguing innovation because they are > starting centers all over the world. The online presence is a way of > connecting them together. > > > > They have also begun a new concept called a blockchain university: > > > > "GCAS is forming a Blockchain University in Ireland so students can earn > money pursuing their degrees and when they graduate they become co-owners." > > > > > > These are great ideas! Will they work? I don't know. But can't you > admire these innovators for trying to get out from under the neoliberal > yoke that has dominated so many universities? > > > > > > I want to make clear that I'm not saying this is the ultimate > bread-slicer. I'm saying here is evidence of people putting their careers > on the line and making something happen, and trying to do something else > for the very reason they are upset with where university education is going. > > > > > > Will it work? How should I know. Typically in evolutionary processes, > experimentation and imagination are critical to moving forward and enabling > new paradigms to develop. What is wrong with that? > > > > > > Study the experiment and make it better. > > > > > > Just because Open Source MOOCs show a hokey rendition of online learning > doesn't mean online learning does not work and should be totally dismissed. > I'm really surprise to hear so much skepticism. > > > > > > I do agree that the marketing is silly (particularly with the idea of an > business entrepreneur living on a yacht in the carribean! That is just dumb > marketing from a low-imagination vantage point). Don't get so caught in > those details. Try to consider the implications. Or don't. > > > > > > The idea is this: This absolutely can be a way for an educator to be > innovative and fund one's own research using existing know-how and > expertise in teaching. If course material is created with video lectures, > homework, and quizzes, the learning involved can ultimately reach many > people all over the world. No traditional university has ever been able to > do that. > > > > > > Once a curriculum is created, that can be online in perpetuity, and > people can purchase the access to the course as long as it is current. Or > it can be distributed free, or with a request for a donation to pay what > you want to pay. > > > > > > Imagine if Vygotsky had done effective online learning using his > theories, and we could access his original lectures 100 years after he is > gone. Imagine that the rights to the material could continue to his estate > or to the public. It certainly couldn't have been banned. > > > > > > The point is there are better choices today (than say 10 years ago) and > a wider distribution when it comes to online learning. > > > > > > The problem with most online platforms is that the designers and > programmers typically do not confer with instructors, tutors, or teachers, > when they design the platform software. From what I have seen, Blackboard > being the absolute worst, Academy of Mine is effectively removing the > complexity of putting courses online and providing instructors a revenue > stream. I'm still learning about it, but it's actually pretty good. It is > effectively cutting out fat-cat administrators and the university's demands > for a lion's share of research funds or other forms of financial support. > > > > > > What if you all could be funded by your students tuition directly to do > the research that you wanted? And your findings could be produced as online > lectures that go directly to the public at large? It starts a virtuous > cycle upwards. It's a different form of publishing your work. > > > > > > Would you want to be an independent researcher? Or do you need to have > the security blanket of an established university who will not allow you to > teach the topics you want in the way you want to teach them? > > > > > > There are 7.6 billion people on the planet, and they say half of them > are on the Internet. That's 3.8 billion. What if you had an audience of > 200,000 for your well-produced online course? If they paid you $1.00 that > would be $200K going to you, with a small percentage of that going to your > production costs, and payment acquisition. Even if 25% went to that, that's > still $175K to you, far better than the typical university salary. And this > is just for one class. > > > > > > Isn't THE POINT of tenure track positions to ensure academic freedom? > Tenured positions are disappearing, they likely aren't coming back. I am > sad about this, but what can be done if the paradigm is dying? Universities > are replacing tenure track professorships with adjuncts, didn't you know? > > > > > > This possibility might just be a way to push back, by just doing your > own school, or an academy of yours. Just like you would write your own > book. What if you could design your own curriculums, isn't that the freedom > that you want? What would that look like? > > > > > > With regards to an LMS vs learning. I didn't say that the LMS was > learning. It's just a publishing tool, and it's up to the educators to find > a way to use them. What is wrong about that? > > > > > > That's like saying a book isn't learning. Who doesn't know that? And a > big book isn't more learning than a small one. The book is simply a tool > for distribution and the book is one component used to aid in learning. Why > can't the same be said for an LMS? Why couldn't it be a way that makes it > easy for instructors to ensure payment for their hard work? Like publishing > a book? > > > > > > I'm not really surprised by the negativity. I am surprised by the lack > of imagination. > > > > > > Put your thinking caps on! > > > > > > How could this actually work and be rewarding for all involved? You > can't tell me there is no way? > > > > > > Is that what you are saying? > > > > > > Kind regards, > > > > > > Annalisa > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Greg Mcverry > > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2018 9:21:14 AM > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: A new-ish learning platform that may be a way to > save adjuncts? > > > > Advocating for ignorance always seems to be a strange position to take. > > Though it is a position those in power have often adopted through out > > history. > > > > I would also push back that we have no idea how to to make learning > happen > > in these environments. What we might say is we have no way how to make > > learning happen in these ways that is both scalable and profitable with > > hockey stick growth. > > > > There are many folks in Open Source communities who have long created > > classes nothing like MOOCs. What is StackOverflow but a large (and > > sometimes rude) learning community? Cormier's #Rhizo classes, #DS106, > > #walkmyworld are all small scale classes in the education and art spaces > > that have been researched (though more comparative case studies and > > autoenthographies). > > > > I also think we need to stop the false distinction between our offline > and > > offline learning environments. I think part of the reason hybrid learning > > comes out favorably in meta-analysis isn't just because of the role of > the > > instructor but the computer aided yet tactile environment is an > interesting > > artifacts of tools. > > > > Finally the only way an app would help adjuncts would be if it had two > > buttons, "Pay me a living wage" and "create a "Tenure Track Position" > > > > On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 2:44 PM Glassman, Michael > > wrote: > > > >> Hi Annalisa and all others interested, > >> > >> Thanks for the link to the video, but I have to say it is pretty > >> problematic. First it calls itself a learning management system when it > >> really has nothing to do with learning. It is instead a course > management > >> system. So why do people use the phrase learning management systems - > >> because companies that sell learning management systems want them to. > >> > >> The distinction is important because while all this hardware and > software > >> is really wowsa, we pretty much have little idea how to use it to create > >> actual learning experiences. We just think it will happen because > person A > >> has knowledge, person B could use knowledge, transfer knowledge, done > and > >> done. I tend to think of the transfer model as being not very good as a > >> teaching learning model. But there are a whole bunch of other issues > which > >> we are just beginning to explore like teacher presence in online > >> situations, student relatedness (the four walls actually do play a > part), > >> individual agency, collective/collaborative agency, cognitive presences > - > >> the list just goes on. The guy on the boat (you have to watch the > video) > >> probably isn't going to be that successful. Who is going to be > successful > >> - why academy of mine will be! > >> > >> We went through this with xMOOCs. I'm old enough to remember when they > >> were going to be the new model for education. I still have discussions > >> with people who say MOOCs do good things. They reach all these people > with > >> information from experts. I ask, is there a good thing? People say, of > >> course it's a good thing. I ask is there any evidence of this? They say > >> well it's better than not reaching them with information. I ask are you > >> sure. There actually is some evidence that it's not that good a thing > from > >> Participatory Action Research. I think one of the things we have to > >> question ourselves about is why this sounds so good to us. > >> > >> This is not to say the Internet is not going to have stunning effects on > >> the way we teach and learn. We need to do the hard work of figuring why > >> and how. But this.... > >> > >> > >> Michael > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto: > >> xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Annalisa Aguilar > >> Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2018 12:56 PM > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] A new-ish learning platform that may be a way to save > >> adjuncts? > >> > >> Hello Xmcars, > >> > >> > >> A few days ago I learned about this new online learning platform > "Academy > >> Of Mine" > >> > >> > >> I think that it portends what future learning might entail. It may be a > >> way of bypassing the calcified learning patterns that no one seems to be > >> able to escape, thanks to the neoliberalization of higher learning. > >> > >> > >> This platform is also about doing business in education, but something > >> about it seems more palatable than paying presidents and other > >> administrators several hundred thousand dollar salaries to run a > university. > >> > >> > >> Here is an intro video for the platform, which I think is using > wordpress > >> for its online architecture. > >> > >> https://vimeo.com/92334633 > >> > >> [https://www.bing.com/th?id=OVP.rKgA__knRtrA5l2yfST4XAEsCo&pid=Api]< > >> https://vimeo.com/92334633> > >> > >> All-In-One Learning-Management-System - Academy Of Mine< > >> https://vimeo.com/92334633> vimeo.com If you're going to be offering a > >> course online you'll need Learning Management System Software (LMS) for > >> your online educational environment. But if you're an ... > >> > >> This might be a way in particular for adjuncts to "hold on" to their > >> course material, and perhaps at some point monetize their courses in > such a > >> way they can create another income stream. > >> > >> > >> I've not really thought this through, but I think this could be > >> paradigm-changing because Academy of Mine seems to really address the > >> technology difficulties for non-technical instructors and teachers. > >> > >> > >> I am curious what you think. > >> > >> > >> I am not affiliated with Academy of Mine, but I have an opportunity to > use > >> the platform and am just learnign about it. I was so impressed I > thought I > >> would let you all take a look. > >> > >> > >> It might make possible courses that are hybird in nature, and it could > >> possibly make experimental learning easier to set up, which would allow > >> educators to do the things they have always known works with successful > >> learning experiences, and just walk around the Maginot Line of > university > >> hegemonies. > >> > >> > >> Kind regards, > >> > >> > >> Annalisa > >> > >> > >> > > > -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Fri Mar 23 10:28:05 2018 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2018 17:28:05 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Moishe Postone (1942-2018) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1521826085744.30276@iped.uio.no> Thanks so much for sharing, Greg. Alfredo Jornet ________________________________ New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and intransitive dimensions" Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Greg Thompson Sent: 22 March 2018 23:14 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Moishe Postone (1942-2018) I imagine that a few here on the list may have heard of Moishe Postone's recent passing (and a few more might be interested to hear). I can't claim to have been particularly close to him but I can say that my understanding of Marx was greatly informed by the staff meetings in which teaching Marx (and others) to undergraduates was the topic year after year. Moishe was always a passionate and thoughtful leader of these discussions - a consummate teacher - and I know that I learned an immense amount from him. I was just reading an essay of his and saw this: "[Marx] makes clear that the categories of his analysis should not be understood in narrow economic terms. Rather, they ?express the forms of being [Daseinsformen], the determinations of existence [Existenzbestimmungen] . . . of this specific society? (Marx 1973: 106, trans. modified). As such, they are, at once, forms of subjectivity and objectivity; they express ?what is given, in the head as well as in reality? (Marx 1973: 106). That is, Marx?s categories purport to grasp as intrinsically interrelated, economic, social and cultural dimensions of the modern, capitalist form of life that frequently are treated as contingently related, as extrinsic to one another. " Felt it relevant somehow... Full essay can be found here: https://thecharnelhouse.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Moishe-Postone-Rethinking-Capital-in-Light-of-the-Grundrisse-2008.pdf Best, greg -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Fri Mar 23 10:40:27 2018 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2018 17:40:27 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools In-Reply-To: References: <1520721034406.59651@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF245E@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <0bdd10ce-7411-8083-533f-44fcfb50e928@marxists.org> <1520858083490.87795@iped.uio.no> <2017557051.756650.1520967771201@mail.yahoo.com> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF29C7@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF2B93@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <1521156905718.23564@iped.uio.no> <001e01d3bd4e$f531b290$df9517b0$@att.net> <003601d3bd5e$1e105a40$5a310ec0$@att.net>, Message-ID: <1521826827561.24749@iped.uio.no> Thanks so much Monica and Fernando for being so generous to address everyone's questions, including this one about Figure 3. In that regard, I wonder about your reading of that "network structure" as relevant in re-organizing the students' agency. In your article, you write about the Rio de Janeiro group, "However, they changed the network structure to ensure more comprehensive communication among the groups" There is in this way of formulating an apparent assumption that there was an initial intention in organising the structure, having learned from the other previous movements/groups. You may (or may not) have empirical evidence that this organization was indeed an intentional one in terms of having considered prior experiences and having come to a decision about what may work best. I would be interested in knowing about that evidence, for I guess there is an interesting topic there concerning a tension between the inherently emergent character and impossible to predict implications of starting up online networks, on the one hand, and the use of those networks for some purposes and intentions on the other. What are your views on this tensions? And how would you say these existed in your project? Has anyone (apart from the authors) thought about these? Alfredo Jornet ________________________________ New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and intransitive dimensions" Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Monica Lemos Sent: 20 March 2018 14:04 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools Dear all, About Figure 3, our first challenge was on how to express the movements in activity systems, and soon we realized that it wouldn't be possible by using previous representations of an activity system, due to the expansion of the movements. So, we decided to place the object of the movement (big sphere in the center), and connect the participants (Facebook pages - small circles) to it. Since the first movement was in the State of S?o Paulo, and the second only in the city of S?o Paulo, there were some pages that were not used for it. Consequently, the number of pages that were used in the second movement is smaller than in the first. In addition, the organization (in relation to centralization of the movements) started changing in the second movement. That is, there were more pages connected to the main page on Facebook (triangles). The third movement was again related to a scandal in the State of S?o Paulo, and again, the number of pages on Facebook increased. Since the fourth movement (from Rio de Janeiro) started after the movements from S?o Paulo, they already started from a central page (instead of fragmented pages from different schools in the first movement), that served as a catalyst of information, and shared the activities with the pages of each school. We will be back to discuss Collaborative agency and reply Andy's questions. Warm regards, Fernando and Monica 2018-03-16 16:36 GMT-03:00 Peg Griffin : > I think Serena (whose graphic it is) now goes to a Society of Friends high > school. She has access to an enormously useful past for an activist to > grow in! > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2018 2:36 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian schools > > Whoa, that is a great graphic, Peg! > (like)!! :-) > mike > > On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 10:48 AM, Peg Griffin wrote: > > > Here's a relevant link: http://badassteachers.blogspot.com/ > > The Badass Teachers Association has existed for a few years now. This > > is a blog with several posts by teachers who experienced the March 14 > > Walkouts in the US. > > The blog entries reflect a few different situations and institutions > > that the Badass Teachers and their students experience (note that the > > last blog entry extends from the Walkouts to Teacher Strikes and more). > > > > While I learned a lot from the account of the four movements in Brazil > > and plan to learn more, here's a bit of a wondering that I have: > > When I work with/for our young activists in the US, as time goes by, I > > almost always find there's something said about the young activists > pasts. > > They have participated in movements where peers further along in some > > ways, and sometimes adults further along in some ways, collaborated. > > The young activists did what they could when they could and took in a > > "whole" event which in many ways they merely understood but marching > > and chanting and drawing were really effective so they were engaged! > > These young activists then externalized what they had taken in in all > > the ways they are doing now ... And the teachers and the rest of us got > further along, too! > > The day before yesterday I was witnessing a Senate hearing. When the > > hearing lies and evasions got terribly redundant, one of the Moms > > Demand Action members seated next to me looked down to a live stream > > on her phone of her daughter and classmates rallying outside the White > > House. Other members remember the daughter tagging along to lobbying > > and hearings and rallies and marches for years and the live stream and > > hugs went around a couple of rows of us. Eventually those White House > > protesting students marched from the White House to Capitol Hill and > > the mom soon left to meet her daughter's group outside. Inside, we > > were astonished at how much we were getting away with without the > > powers that be warning we would be tossed out. Maybe it's the times > > that are a changing or maybe it was just that our slogan t-shirts, > > finger snaps, humphs and yesses were mild in contrast to the Code Pink > > folks a few rows away -- great costumes and liberty crowns and great > > signs. All sorts of forbidden expressive delights in a hearing run by > > Grassley. > > > > By the way, Randi Weingarten who is president of the AFT (one of the > > two prominent and somewhat staid teachers unions in the US) shocked > > many in a recent e-mail when she easily referred to the Badass > > Teachers Association as one of her co-leaders in the coalition of > > forty organizations working on the April 20 National Actions in the > > continuing move against gun violence. > > (Adults are organizing the expansion of this anniversary of the > > Columbine > > Massacre,) > > > > Badass, hardcore, throwing shade -- those are some of my newly nuanced > > vocabulary items that young activists have led me to learn in the past > > year and a half. > > > > And I'm attaching an amazing piece of art work -- the artist is also > > quite the author of the written word. > > > > Peg > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Alfredo Jornet > > Gil > > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2018 7:35 PM > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian > > schools > > > > Just as a note to Harshad's and Michael's comments, and with the hope > > to, although through a little detour, somehow re-connect with the > > article (at least with the topic of social media, youth, and social > mobilisation): > > > > Today, in Reykjavik, we were in a meeting discussing opportunities and > > challenges that emerge when educators try to implement makerspaces > > activities with young children (5-6 years old), now that those have > > become fashionable and educators are trying to see what's good in > > there. In the meeting, there were experienced kindergarten teachers, > > science center organisers, artist researchers, "just plain postdocs" > > and the likes, all of whom have experience and passion about children > > and learning. We all agreed that most of the problems in attempting to > > implement makerspaces-like activities with younger children had to do > > with the failure of the adults to appreciate and let the children own > > and make the space theirs, which we find is the whole point of a maker > > space. We pointed out our failure to see and listen how the kids see > > and listen, so as to help them make. While many of us, adults, in > > those situations tend to attend to the verb "to make" in the > > transitive, as in "she makes some*thing*", thereby focusing on some > > end in mind that provides with a model against which to exert > > correction, we forget that, in most cases, the kids are in fact > > *making* (in the intransitive, without object), and that it is in the > > making that the possibility of the end object emerges. Instead of > > supporting them, appreciating the heart of what making means?in > > praxis?we tend to suffocate them, narrowing the space so that it no > > longer is a makerspace, or at least not one even close to their > > regular kindergarten spaces. > > > > Similarly, I am reluctant here to follow the lead that "mass youth is > > mislead," at least not before I try to carefully and respectfully > > attend to where they are at, what *their* world and space is, and what > > they say. For yes, the words "safety" or "Girls clothing in school is > > more regulated than GUNS in America" may not sound as erudite and > > profound as more complex statements about the relations between > > Philosophy, Science, Ethics, and Economy (all with capital letter). > > But the fact is that the magic, the future, humanity in fact, is in > > their saying. So I would listen, but not with the narrow backward view > > of us adults who already know, but from the prospective forward view > > of those who grow. And this is not to say that they are right or that > > they are wrong; that would be, I think, missing the point. > > Even though, I must say, the messages too, like "your prayers do > nothing," > > are quite convincing to me. > > > > Alfredo Jornet > > ________________________________ > > New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and > > intransitive dimensions" > > Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > > > > ________________________________________ > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > on behalf of Glassman, Michael > > > > Sent: 15 March 2018 15:36 > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian > > schools > > > > Hi Harshad, > > > > Sometimes it is the obvious not the obscure. If you want a hungry > > person to not be hungry anymore you give them food. A student of mind > > did a great study on homelessness. Basically the best thing you can > > do to avoid homelessness is you give people homes. And if you want > > people to stop shooting each other with guns you take away their guns. > > > > Don't forget also that the nuclear family is something we pretty much > > made up over the last few centuries. > > > > Michael > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Harshad Dave > > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2018 8:54 AM > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian > > schools > > > > 15 March 2018. > > > > Dear friends, > > > > I write here with reference to email message from Michael (Wed, Mar > > 14, > > 2018 at 9:25 PM). As far as protest for gun control and debate on it > > is concerned, I put some views here. > > > > We all are aware that this is not the first event of open fire on > > school students as well as mass killing with gun fire on public place > > (recall Las Vegas shooting and other). Right from beginning, when > > Columbus discovered the New World, the road of establishing civilized > > society on continent America was not a comfortable one. The people > > passed through challenges, hardship and peril in day to day life > > during the travel on the road. This journey moulded a responsible and > > wisdom full culture in the blood of people living there. They fought > > for independence and emerged with a unity named USA, they sustained > > with and sacrificed in civil war, they passed through the severe > > recession of 1930 after World War I, and they fought thousands of > > kilometres away from native place along with allied nations in World > > War II. > > These all are the untold, unwritten qualification of the people of the > > time that decorated with a right of freedom to keep weapons with them. > > We never heard of such insane events of mass killing in this society > > in the history of this people though freedom to keep gun/weapon was and > has been a right. > > > > [NB: Please note, I am neither in favour nor in opposition to the > protest. > > I try to just bring one point of consideration to the reader.] > > > > After August 1945, USA emerged with some exceptional lead over other > > nations of the world. If we consider a period of 25 years as > > generation change, the third and fourth generation constitutes present > > youth. Those who were born in and after August 1945 could study the > > history of the above path that was traveled by their ancestors. There > > is much difference between reading a history and making living in the > > same history. > > > > Moreover, I recall the words of President Roosevelt, ?*The only limit > > to our realization of tomorrow will be our doubts of today.*? It > > brought a new style and different culture with comfortable life and > > inexperienced thinking and thoughts in new generations. The emerging > > social constitution of society in USA and its systems as well as > > institutions grew with a rapid progress and incessant changes. > > Majority people believe that ?*dollars?* is the ultimate key towards > > happiness and peace. Institutions and system of society worked as if > > ?*science and technology?* has the entire competency to settle any > > social problem. > > > > Wise people.... perhaps... failed to understand that our society is > > stable and balance on four pillars.... they (pillars) are Philosophy, > > Ethics and Religion, Science and Technology and Economics. Uneven > > growth in one or more pillars will destabilize the society. Now a day, > > we are searching all the answers of social issues from *science and > > technology*. We try to sort out every problem through *dollars* only, > > and we do not know if it is sorted out or postponed. Neither we > > honestly give adequate stress on ethical value nor do we have uniform > > philosophy on which our society might rest. Family system is all most > > paralyzed. Youth are encouraged or instigated to be independent and > > self sufficient as soon as they reach at a prescribed age. We treat > > them as freedom to youth. Our youth mass is not aware of all this fact > > and every street and corners are equipped with a net-work to > > misleading the youth. > > > > Now, this mass of the youth protests with an esteemed trust that the > > subject gun law will bring a safety. They never know, ?*Safety never > > come from the enacted laws, it does come from the healthy and balanced > > social system.*? > > Presently, it seems to me that protesters are with a trust to bring > > safety by introducing the subject gun law, but the events of shootings > > shout for the grass root changes in social system with balance uniform > > growth in the above said four pillars. It demands for reintroducing an > > affectionate family system again and fundamental education that > > dollars cannot always bring happiness and peace but where the real > > happiness and peace lie. > > > > Harshad Dave > > > > Email: hhdave15@gmail.com > > On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 9:25 PM, Glassman, Michael > > > > wrote: > > > > > Fernando and Monica, > > > > > > This is what is happening is the United States today, > > > > > > https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/03/students- > > > from-thousands-of-schools-stage-a-walkout-to-protest- > > > gun-violence-and-honor-parkland-victims.html > > > > > > It is nothing less than extraordinary. Many are trying to limit this > > > to gun violence but I wonder, based on your article, if it will soon > > > transform into another movement. But I think it goes to show how the > > > work you have done, if only a beginning, is really important. I feel > > > like we have missed this in U.S. academic circles. There is what is > > > basically an idiotic article on fake news in the most recent > > > Science, supposed to be our flagship. > > > > > > I feel like we have to hit the re-set button on understanding what > > > is going on and the role that what you call human-technology > > > interaction is playing. > > > > > > I have a question for some activity theorists if they are interested > > > in responding. In some ways what is going on does mirror an activity > > > model, the multi-level reciprocal transformation (unless I am > > > misunderstanding something). But as I said in an earlier message > > > there is nobody coming in doing an intervention, the transformation > > > itself is organic, more Dewey oriented I would say (I think maybe > > > Friere also). Is there room for this in activity theory? > > > > > > Michael > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Fernando Cunha > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 3:03 PM > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity ; mike > > > cole > > > Cc: Lemos, Monica > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in Brazilian > > > schools > > > > > > Dear all, > > > I really appreciate the discussion so far, and I liked the way some > > > of you used some metaphors. It was far from our intention to > > > reinvent the wheel or to use flint stones to light fire. What I > > > think it is important is that there is no "if" in human history, and > > > we are where we are because we transform the places we live, as well > > > as the tools we use. We can for sure ride horses in the cities, but > > > the horses would sweat so much (considering the asphalt roads), that > > > in a matter of > > hours they would die. > > > > > > Since life is forward, we tried to show in our article a small part > > > of what the movements organized by the students were.It is important > > > to highlight, that despite people that were not in favor of protests > > > (including some students!), it was the first time in Brazilian > > > history that students (who were not supposed to interfere) > > > interfered in a political decision. And they did so not only by > > > using Facebook. As we mention in our paper, Facebook is one aspect > > > of the protests, and we considered it as a mediational communicative > > > tool. As I mentioned before in this answer, we as human beings use > > > tools that are available, reshape them, and sometimes use them for a > > > purpose that is > > completely different from the original idea. > > > I myself am a secondary education teacher, and I am also a > > > researcher because I am a secondary education teacher. We may have > > > different points of view when you research something as an outsider, > > > and when you participate (not as an ethnographer), but as a subject > > > of the group. In my humble opinion, we are still trying to > > > conceptualize (and > > > stabilize) things that move faster than we can handle as scientists, > > > or to compare contexts that cannot be compared. > > > > > > I am looking forward to your reactions. > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > __________________________Fernando R. Cunha J?nior, PhD. > > > > > > http://fernandorcjr.wordpress.com > > > > > > > > > Em segunda-feira, 12 de mar?o de 2018 21:05:34 BRT, mike cole < > > > mcole@ucsd.edu> escreveu: > > > > > > Alfredo et al > > > > > > I read this message before reading the prior one. You are making the > > > point I was trying to make regarding discussion of the paper. > > > In our everyday lives we are experiencing a change in the wind (to > > > use a metaphor that Dylan made famous at another such time). > > > HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS ARE DISRUPTING THINGS AS USUAL for the first > > > time in my life. Call it 65 years. > > > > > > And we are academics and some of us are are paid to theorize such > > matters. > > > To theorize the social organization of society was Hugh's > > > description of the social sciences. In most American Universities, > > > Psychology (cap > > > P) is located in the social sciences. > > > Do we approach the problem from "below" as psychologists? Do we > > > approach it from "above" as sociologists and political scientists? > > > Can you link the Leontiev who writes about the nature of human > > > consciousness, psychologically speaking and conducts experiments in > > > the laboratory that look for all the world like what goes on in my > > > psychology department, AND as someone who can help understand the > > > growth of social movements? This may also be a way to address and > > > understanding of the overlap and variability in the ideas of > > > Vygotsky and > > Friere. > > > > > > Monica and Fernando must be reeling from all the complicated English > > > we are spewing. I look forward to the discussion. > > > > > > Still worrying about Figure 3! I know I need to be able to interpret > > > it but I am doing a lousy job. > > > > > > mike > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 5:34 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Thanks for finding and sharing the link, Andy, and thanks Michael > > > > and Mike for bringing the absolutely relevant connection to > Parklands. > > > > > > > > There was not so long ago a discussion here as well as in a couple > > > > of articles in MCA about how crises leading to development most > > > > often result from quantitative increments that lead to qualitative > > > > leaps such that new forms of organization emerge from previous ones. > > > > So, David, I don't see why increments in the pace of circulation > > > > (e.g., of > > > > information) would not be expected to bring with them changes in > > > > the organisation of the whole economy system. I would not say that > > > > social media is just bringing a lot more of the same, just as I > > > > would not a priori reject the possibility that bringing a lot more > > > > of the same might not end up bringing new qualitative forms of > > > > communicating. The observation that "like" is intransitive in > > > > Facebook is interesting; but to me it needs to be put in its > > > > larger context of use. And so, are we analysing Facebook as a > > > > grammar closed up in itself, or as one more > > > chain in a larger grammar of possible cooperation? > > > > > > > > I am myself concerned that Social Media like Facebook may be > > > > amplifying dichotomical thinking beyond the innocuous and often > > > > way-to-verbose essays we academics enjoy entertaining with much > > > > more complex verbal forms than Facebook's intransitive "likes", > > > > only that the confrontations now seem to be moving to family's > > > > dinner tables, quarrels among protesters in public squares, or > > > > previously unheard of incarcerations for publishing tweets and rap > > > > songs that critique the crown in a supposedly modern democracy like > Spain (e.g.: > > > > http://cadenaser.com/ser/2018/02/20/tribunales/1519135083_ > > > > 106543.html). But the article here discussed also shows that there > > > > are forms of organization that these technologies are affording > > > > that may bring more positive changes, like the case again in Spain > > > > of March 8th women's strike, the extent of which no politician or > > > > journalist had anticipated and which led the government to quickly > > > > adopt a much more equity-friendly discourse than even the evening > > > > before (https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=4_11iIELdfc). So, no, > > > > probably that one strike, or that one social media that may have > > > > made it possible, won't change the system. But they seem to > > > > incrementally add to > > > something, don't they? > > > > > > > > Alfredo Jornet > > > > ________________________________ > > > > New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and > > > > intransitive dimensions" > > > > Free print available: > > > > https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > > > > > > > > ________________________________________ > > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > on behalf of Andy Blunden > > > > > > > > Sent: 12 March 2018 06:39 > > > > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in > > > > Brazilian schools > > > > > > > > That headline does not exist, but is it this: > > > > > > > > https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/07/us/parkland-students-social-med > > > > ia > > > > .h > > > > tml > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > Andy Blunden > > > > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > > > > On 12/03/2018 4:02 PM, mike cole wrote: > > > > > Michael - I have been trying to find a digital copy of a story > > > > > in today's NY Times titled "the social media warriors of parkland." > > > > > For some reason > > > > it > > > > > is not visible on the digital version.... yet. Maybe someone out > > > > >there in xmca-land can find it for us? I will check again in > > > > >the morning to see if it appears. > > > > > It seems especially relevant to Monica and Fernando's > > > > >article, and > > > > to > > > > > David's comment that " it is very hard for me to pinpoint any > > > > > actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was > > > > > made > > > > possible by > > > > > Facebook." The voices and forms of speaking used by the > > > > > students was > > > > not, > > > > > so far as I could tell, the source of data. There are no > > > > > quotations of > > > > any > > > > > students speaking differently. I assumed that this article was > > > > > about collective action. > > > > > Monica and Fernando - I confess I had difficulty following parts > > > > > of the article, perhaps because I am a very seldom user of > > > > > Facebook. In particular, I had difficulty understanding Figure 3. > > > > > Were the people who started M1 also those who started M2-M3? ( " > > > > > Once students achieved the object of the activity?in the first > > > > > case, to avoid the closure of the schools?they focused the > > > > > protests on another > > > object"). > > > > > > > > > > Did the M4 people get the idea from M1 through a FB connection > > > > > form > > M1? > > > > Did > > > > > you get any sense of what distinguished pages that got a few > > > > > hundred > > > > versus > > > > > 10,000 reactions? > > > > > > > > > > Harshad - Did you think the article failed to consider social > issues? > > > > There > > > > > is no information about you on the xmca membership page, so it > > > > > is difficult to know from what part of the world you are writing. > > > > > Unless I miss my guess, some people will wonder at your use of > > > > > the word "man" where the local practice might put "humankind" or > > > > > some other gender inclusive term. > > > > > > > > > > David - Daylight saving time tonight so I find myself "working > > > > > late." It got me to wondering how many people live in Seoul. A > > > > > lot, > > > it turns out. > > > > > About 9-10 million. That got me to wondering about how much > > > > > faster all those people would be getting around on horses with > > > > > all the horse plops > > > > to > > > > > clamber over. And all that hay to haul into town for the morning > > > > > rush hour. :-) > > > > > > > > > > mike > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Glassman, Michael > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> Hi David, > > > > >> > > > > >> I'm sure those meddling kids won't come back on your lawn any > > > > >> time > > > soon. > > > > >> > > > > >> But really, the article did not say Facebook is a new type of > > > > technology. > > > > >> I believe they said that it's a form of human-technology > > > > >> interaction and suggested perhaps social media was a new type > > > > >> of human-technology interaction. I don't agree with this > phrasing. > > > > >> I tend to think of > > > > Facebook > > > > >> more as an application of Internet technology - but either way > > > > >> Facebook > > > > is > > > > >> just a form or an application. Is the internetworking of > > > > >> computer, radio and satellite communication an enormous step > > > > >> forward in how humans communicate. I think so - it's really > > > > >> extraordinary on a number of > > > > levels > > > > >> but that's really not the conversation for this article. > > > > >> > > > > >> I do think the authors have done an analysis that is > > > > >> interesting and possibly important, especially when one > > > > >> considers what is currently > > > > going > > > > >> on down in Parkland (some might be happy to know that, at least > > > > >> from > > > > what I > > > > >> have read, Facebook isn't dominant or even that important for > > > > >> these students. Adults have been using it more for larger > > > > >> organizational > > > > events > > > > >> like the March 14 walkout and the March 24 march). I have read > > > > >> some articles on organizing on online forums (and actually > > > > >> wrote a not very > > > > good > > > > >> one a few years back). Most of them are communications based an > > > > >> don't > > > > have > > > > >> strong theoretical underpinning which is why I think this > > > > >> article might > > > > be > > > > >> an important step forward. > > > > >> > > > > >> I think the idea of using third generation activity theory > > > > >> might be a > > > > good > > > > >> idea for this type of analysis. I myself have seen ties between > > > > >> the trialogical approach being developed by Hakkareinan and > > > > >> Paavola and > > > > what is > > > > >> going on down in Parkland. The students are creating their own > > > > >> projects > > > > and > > > > >> then getting the larger community to buy in to and support what > > > > >> they are doing which is in turn changing the quality of their > > > > >> activities. I have > > > > my > > > > >> own ideas on why this is suddenly happening and direct > > > > >> communication technologies like Twitter and texting (which seem > > > > >> primary vehicles) are only part of it. > > > > >> > > > > >> Anyway, this particular article I think is really timely and > > > > >> should give us a lot to think about. > > > > >> > > > > >> Michael > > > > >> > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > > > >> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg > > > > >> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2018 6:03 PM > > > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Article for discussion: Facebook in > > > > >> Brazilian > > > > schools > > > > >> > > > > >> So in the fifteenth century, Gutenberg exapted extant > > > > >> technology already widely available in China and published a > > > > >> single text using moveable > > > > type > > > > >> which started a profound intellectual, cultural, and social > > > > >> revolution whose effects we still feel today: the rise of > > > > >> Protestantism, the Counter-Reformation in, among other places, > > > > >> Brazil, the Wars of > > > > Religion in > > > > >> France, the vicissitudes of a multii-confessional (political) > > > > >> State and ultimately those of a multi-confessional > > > > >> (psychological) state, In the twentieth century, Ford similarly > > > > >> exapted extant technology, this time nearly two millenia later > > > > >> than China, and mass-produced automobiles > > > > using > > > > >> Taylorism, forcing everybody to buy an identical product with > > > > >> interchangeable parts made by factories with interchangeable > > workers. > > > > >> The automobile "revolution" did not even give us new roads, and > > > > >> in Seoul today traffic moves notably slower than it would on > > > > >> horseback. Clearly, there are some forms of technology that are > > > > >> actually semiogenic--and > > > > others > > > > >> which merely circulate capital at a faster rate and actually > > > > >> slow the movement of people and new ideas. > > > > >> > > > > >> So my question is very simple. How do we know that "Facebook" > > > > >> (which as the name implies was originally designed to help > > > > >> Harvard freshmen decide which classmates were sufficiently hot > > > > >> to > > > > >> "like") is really one of the former technologies?.There are > > > > >> very clear signs , beyond the obvious > > > > ones > > > > >> surrounding the American origins, that it belongs to the latter > > > > category, > > > > >> and not a few of them appear in this very article. First of > > > > >> all, the authors are honest enough to associate Facebook with > > > > >> reactionary, xenophobic, populist movements like the clowns who > > > > >> run > > > the "Five Stars" > > > > >> movement in Italy. Second, on the very first page, the authors > > > > >> try but > > > > do > > > > >> not really seem to be able to distinguish between the "post > > > > >> first and organize later" technologies of Occupy Wall Street > > > > >> and the use of social media by the four movements in the > > > > >> article (including one actually > > > > called > > > > >> "Occupy Everything"). And thirdly, it is very hard for me to > > > > >> pinpoint > > > > any > > > > >> actual new form of thinking or new form of speaking which was > > > > >> made > > > > possible > > > > >> by Facebook. If anything, Facebook seems to narrow semiogenic > > > > >> power to a single consumer/computer menu. Ford said, you can > > > > >> get a Model A in any color you like so long as it's black. > > > > >> Facebook tells us the same thing, > > > > but > > > > >> makes the verb "like" intransitive. > > > > >> > > > > >> David Kellogg > > > > >> Sangmyung University > > > > >> > > > > >> Recent Article in *Early Years* > > > > >> > > > > >> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s > > > > >> crises, and the child?s first interrogatives > > > > >> > > > >> doi/full/10.1080/09575146.2018.1431874> > > > > >> > > > > >> Free e-print available at: > > > > >> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 7:30 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > > > > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > > > > >> wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >>> Dear xmca'ers, > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> it is (bit over) due time for introducing the article for > > > > >>> discussion from MCA's 2018 Issue 1, before Issue 2 comes upon > > > > >>> us > > > soon. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> The selected article, by Monica Ferreira Lemos and Fernando > > > > >>> Rezende da Cunha J?nior, is about two topics that were > > > > >>> thematised in the last ISCAR congress and that ought to be of > > > > >>> much relevance to current and future CHAT-related research: > > > > >>> Social media and social movements. In particular, the article > > > > >>> examines how students use social media for the organization > > > > >>> and development of 4 social > > > movements in Brazil. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> The article is attached and is Free access during the > > > > >>> discussion > > > > period. > > > > >>> It can be accessed free in the following link: > > > > >>> > > > > >>> https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2017.137 > > > > >>> 98 > > > > >>> 23 > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> The authors have kindly agreed to participate in the > > > > >>> discussion and they will be introducing themselves soon. I > > > > >>> hope you will find the article interesting and please don't > > > > >>> be shy to share anything you might have learned reading it, > > > > >>> anything you might wonder about it or that you would like see > > > > >>> discussed. Having authors engage in dialogue is a great > > > > >>> opportunity that this community offers and that makes sense > > > > >>> the most when many of you > > > participate. Good reading! > > > > >>> > > > > >>> ? > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Alfredo Jornet > > > > >>> > > > > >>> New article in *Design Studies* "Imagning Design: Transitive > > > > >>> and intransitive dimensions" > > > > >>> Free print available: > > > > >>> https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > > > > >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Monica F. Lemos - PhD Student Faculty of Educational Sciences Center for Research on Activity, Development and Learning http://www.helsinki.fi/cradle/doctoral_students_2012.htm P.O. Box 9, FIN-00014 University of Helsinki- Finland +55 11 98162-9482 (whatsapp) Skype: monicaflemos From annalisa@unm.edu Fri Mar 23 12:01:56 2018 From: annalisa@unm.edu (Annalisa Aguilar) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2018 19:01:56 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: A new-ish learning platform that may be a way to save adjuncts? In-Reply-To: <1521826043552.65722@iped.uio.no> References: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AF4719@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <5FCEFE09-3B73-4C99-A63B-3DDB5C02A441@uth.gr>, , , <1521826043552.65722@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: Hi Alfredo! And salutations to all, Greg's post reminded me of his interest in Miles Horton: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myles_Horton Here you have someone who just did it. This school experiment seems to have turned out an MLK and a Rosa Parks to name a few great movers and shakers of American culture. Given that the Internet is just one giant distribution point of textual material and almost anyone can publish on it, the problems it generates is editorial curation. People who unite around a fire of one website, or one listserv, or one discussion board, these add and take value accordingly. This listserv is one mighty example of commanding the respect of its own institutional staying power. If we are talking about teaching and learning, then I imagine we want to distinguish ourselves from those who say they offer quality learning, but are actually just selling student loans to keep individuals who want to learn, who are curious, who want to better themselves, strapped to the chain of debt. Debt has a way of killing the mother of invention. Professors are not really exposed to the realities of student debt unless they were a student who took out loans. Or they hear about it anecdotally. But it's not typically a life experience they live in the same way as the student who carries debt because of a promise "You will get an education, and you will be a better person, a better citizen, and you will incidentally increase your earning power). Professors in established universities do not have to dirty their hands with the chores of collecting tuition, or other tasks of administration, they just teach. That's the ideal, but what teacher hasn't had to bridge the gap to do what had to be done next so a class of students would come together and teaching could take place? How much does it matter that we adhere to particular sets of rules, or theories, if we can show that learning can happen? Isn't this just a way to give credit to say, "This is bona fide learning," vs. "This is not bona fide learning." We often evaluate the quality of something based upon its context, or its affiliations. What peers say about a teacher and her work. We also evaluate on expectations well met, that people do what they promise to do. Teachers and students. That relationship must be there before quality learning can happen. What a great teacher offers is a series of clear expectations and delivery. What will someone learn during the time spent in the classroom? What kinds of experiences will be provided that will enrich and transform? Such as interacting with other students and enjoying the diversity they bring. In a sense, this is a feature, not a bug, of learning in a classroom, that is, to make acquaintance with others who could become lifelong associates in a life of practice. If the fee for being a part of the class is not prohibitively expensive, let's say $1.00 to attend the class, is it possible that it is no longer a class being consumed, but a teacher being supported to continue teaching? What makes teaching class a product? And what makes it an experience? Kind regards, Annalisa ________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Alfredo Jornet Gil Sent: Friday, March 23, 2018 11:27:23 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: A new-ish learning platform that may be a way to save adjuncts? Thanks for posing those questions and inviting everyone to share visions, Annalisa. Mine will sound like a clich? to many here, familiar to the sort of discourse that emerged around situative learning theories on learning as apprenticeship... But, that vision of research institutes as handcraft workshops, where more and less experienced apprentices participate together in doing a form of craft, is my vision. I am a newbie teacher and all my efforts go into thinking, "how can I make this lecture/class/seminar be a workshop useful for producing the sort of things I am producing?" I find this approach useful for three interconnected reasons: (1) it forces me to make the product of my craft, of my research activities, and therefore also the procedures, relevant not only to myself or academic journal readership. If whatever I am producing with my research is not relevant for the students, if it cannot be something that would engage 30+ people and make them want to learn the skills to come out with similar types of products, then probably I should reconsider my object of study/teaching. (2) it overcomes the commodification issue that has been discussed; for it is the craftmanship and skill what is offered, and that is not somehting that can be sold for "consumed", it is rather what sets production-consumption systems it is something that needs to be cultivated and that therefore generates culture. (3) Finally, I think that when you do (1) and (2) properly, then your research craftmanship, the practice you are setting up, cannot stay self-contained but needs to be some hybrid form of scholar and non-scholar work. Here in Reykjavik, for example, they run this platform-centre for supporting and investigating ICT and teaching that is hybrid in two senses: (i) first involving a digital forum as well as a set of physical meeting places in which teachers come to share, discuss, challenge, try out, teaching ideas, issues etc. and then (ii) hybrid because it is not teaching practice itself, nor is it scholar practice itself. It is not the scholars who organ ize the meetings, but the teachers, who actually come to the university not to get a degree, not even to get better at what they do, but rather to get better things done. That is a nice vision, I think. Alfredo Jornet ________________________________ New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and intransitive dimensions" Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Annalisa Aguilar Sent: 23 March 2018 17:23 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: A new-ish learning platform that may be a way to save adjuncts? Thanks Greg and Anna, and salutations to others, Thanks so much for the discussion. I agree that one of the unattended issues is not about how much money one could make doing one's own courses. They spend a lot of time on the idea of raining money in that promotion video. But try to look past that. (And yes, commodification of anything tends to suck the valuable essence out of things). We have the world we are given and we must try to transform it with the soil and seeds that we have here. Let's not wait for Godot. Why not start an accreditation association, something like TrustE does for vetting responsible websites. If you have been accredited, then it can attest for quality. Certainly this isn't far from the peer review model. To speak to Greg's skeptic, there is already a form of this market pressure and commodification of "sexy" courses in universities, in terms of any course offering and getting enough students to sign up. If you don't have enough that sign up, the university cancels the class, which puts professors in a bind with teaching requirements. That dynamic is already there. But if a professor had a core class that contained lessons that don't need updating all that much, that frees up a lot of time that the professor can spend working more closely with students, one-on-one, because the time to organize and produce coursework has been negotiated and processed already. This seems to be a more personable way of teaching, where the website platform is just another kind of book that the professor teaches from. Just like GCAS is creating a collective of educators all over the world, professors can travel and teach anywhere and as more time goes one, the itinerant sage can meet all sorts of diverse students, and other teachers in conferences, who have come to appreciate what they offer in the learning traditions. Conferences are already an established academic forum. I don't really understand the contract labor argument because that is already happening with adjuncts in established universities, and we already know what is wrong about that. I don't think academics write books because they are contracting their labor for constructing interesting and entertaining sentences. But there is nothing keeping people from creating collectives and establishing their own associations and promoting themselves as a school of thought coming from a particular lineage or tradition of learning. These alternatives are just not associated with a brick and mortar institution. These are some imaginings. What do you think? If you could prefigure your desired educational forum, what would that look like? If you could have your own research institute, and study what you wanted, what would that look like? You must have many many ideas! How about we hear about that? I'd love to know what they are. I'm sure there can be really exciting conversations on that topic alone. Kind regards, Annalisa ________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Greg Thompson Sent: Friday, March 23, 2018 5:22:14 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: A new-ish learning platform that may be a way to save adjuncts? Annalisa, I have two thoughts, the supportive and the skeptic: 1. The supportive: If you feel confident that great things can be done with this, then go out and do it! Be the change and all that. (I would add that self-publishing a textbook, e.g. as a pdf that you sell for $30 or so, can be another way to gain an income from even a free online course - if you can get 100 students each time you teach a course and they all have to buy your textbook, then that's $3,000). 2. The skeptic: My caution would be that this is still caught up in neoliberalism and perhaps the worst form of it - the contract laborer selling their wares. This means that you are subject to the whims and interests of the student-as-consumer. The precarity of this arrangement is one thing, but the real trouble is that the student-as-consumer's desires are what drives education. That means that adjuncts teaching programming will probably do a lot better than adjuncts teaching Vygotsky. But that seems like an empirical question, so prove me wrong! Both points seem to come down to: discover what can be done and we will be convinced (and note that this is coming from naysayers who are implicated in the system that is being disrupted by these new technologies, so perhaps the worst people to talk to about such an idea!). -greg On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 12:54 AM, Anna Chronaki wrote: > Thank you Annalisa! > > This seems like a serious grassroots movement, but one that, nevertheless, > uses again the intellectuals and their ?power? to do things with us all and > mainly with students. > > As you say, these all initiatives cannot be ignored, but a closer analysis > seems necessary. Do they actually emancipate people? Or, do they work > within the circle of neoliberal and market related practices of need today? > > For example, when one sees that a Deleuzian interactive seminar costs 50 > Euros or dollars, why then to bother buying a book or turn to study a > theory?? the whole story of knowledge and studying changes here? and, to my > view, it starts becoming more and more vividly and visually insignificant > commodity compared to other more serious demands in our lives. > > all the best and thank you again! > Anna > > > > > On 23 Mar 2018, at 06:31, Annalisa Aguilar wrote: > > > > Hello skeptics and venerable others, > > > > > > Advocating for ignorance is one thing, but let's not get up on our high > horses, shall we? > > > > > > It is really easy for people to dismiss changing paradigms, and then the > tide comes in and increases to a depth where one is caught unawares. I > would say this is the moment you might be paying attention and watching > what is happening and make your own connections. This is the only reason I > made the post. > > > > > > Namely: make your own connections. Play with the tools, see what they > can and cannot do. Study them. Improve them. Discuss their merits and their > shortcomings. But be involved! > > > > > > Thomas Edison once thought that motion pictures would end the > traditional forms of teaching and instruction, and he ended up being wrong, > but there is something that enriched learning by having media like film > available to classroom instruction. Or just being exposed to worldviews > through the eyes of another. > > > > > > If you do not mind, I would push back to the push back that we actually > do know how to make learning happen on these platforms, and we are learning > what works and what doesn't. People have been doing that for a long while > now. It's likely different. I never said it was the same or better. I don't > need a degree to sort out that this isn't the same as a core > college-lecture-hall-delivered course, or a tutorial with a one-on-on > tutor, or anything on that spectrum. > > > > > > I do not see it replacing classroom teaching, like Edison did; I see it > as *different*. That's all. Offering learning in a different package. There > is no one way of learning. > > > > > > Here's the thing: For real niche classes it's possible to create > innovative coursework because the constraints are simply not there. > > > > > > (For example check out GCAS) > > > > see: https://thegcas.org/welcome > > > > > > They have Alain Bardieu as their university president. > > > > https://thegcas.org/alain-badiou > > > > > > The founder is Creston Davis: > > > > https://thegcas.org/creston-davis > > > > > > This online university is a very intriguing innovation because they are > starting centers all over the world. The online presence is a way of > connecting them together. > > > > They have also begun a new concept called a blockchain university: > > > > "GCAS is forming a Blockchain University in Ireland so students can earn > money pursuing their degrees and when they graduate they become co-owners." > > > > > > These are great ideas! Will they work? I don't know. But can't you > admire these innovators for trying to get out from under the neoliberal > yoke that has dominated so many universities? > > > > > > I want to make clear that I'm not saying this is the ultimate > bread-slicer. I'm saying here is evidence of people putting their careers > on the line and making something happen, and trying to do something else > for the very reason they are upset with where university education is going. > > > > > > Will it work? How should I know. Typically in evolutionary processes, > experimentation and imagination are critical to moving forward and enabling > new paradigms to develop. What is wrong with that? > > > > > > Study the experiment and make it better. > > > > > > Just because Open Source MOOCs show a hokey rendition of online learning > doesn't mean online learning does not work and should be totally dismissed. > I'm really surprise to hear so much skepticism. > > > > > > I do agree that the marketing is silly (particularly with the idea of an > business entrepreneur living on a yacht in the carribean! That is just dumb > marketing from a low-imagination vantage point). Don't get so caught in > those details. Try to consider the implications. Or don't. > > > > > > The idea is this: This absolutely can be a way for an educator to be > innovative and fund one's own research using existing know-how and > expertise in teaching. If course material is created with video lectures, > homework, and quizzes, the learning involved can ultimately reach many > people all over the world. No traditional university has ever been able to > do that. > > > > > > Once a curriculum is created, that can be online in perpetuity, and > people can purchase the access to the course as long as it is current. Or > it can be distributed free, or with a request for a donation to pay what > you want to pay. > > > > > > Imagine if Vygotsky had done effective online learning using his > theories, and we could access his original lectures 100 years after he is > gone. Imagine that the rights to the material could continue to his estate > or to the public. It certainly couldn't have been banned. > > > > > > The point is there are better choices today (than say 10 years ago) and > a wider distribution when it comes to online learning. > > > > > > The problem with most online platforms is that the designers and > programmers typically do not confer with instructors, tutors, or teachers, > when they design the platform software. From what I have seen, Blackboard > being the absolute worst, Academy of Mine is effectively removing the > complexity of putting courses online and providing instructors a revenue > stream. I'm still learning about it, but it's actually pretty good. It is > effectively cutting out fat-cat administrators and the university's demands > for a lion's share of research funds or other forms of financial support. > > > > > > What if you all could be funded by your students tuition directly to do > the research that you wanted? And your findings could be produced as online > lectures that go directly to the public at large? It starts a virtuous > cycle upwards. It's a different form of publishing your work. > > > > > > Would you want to be an independent researcher? Or do you need to have > the security blanket of an established university who will not allow you to > teach the topics you want in the way you want to teach them? > > > > > > There are 7.6 billion people on the planet, and they say half of them > are on the Internet. That's 3.8 billion. What if you had an audience of > 200,000 for your well-produced online course? If they paid you $1.00 that > would be $200K going to you, with a small percentage of that going to your > production costs, and payment acquisition. Even if 25% went to that, that's > still $175K to you, far better than the typical university salary. And this > is just for one class. > > > > > > Isn't THE POINT of tenure track positions to ensure academic freedom? > Tenured positions are disappearing, they likely aren't coming back. I am > sad about this, but what can be done if the paradigm is dying? Universities > are replacing tenure track professorships with adjuncts, didn't you know? > > > > > > This possibility might just be a way to push back, by just doing your > own school, or an academy of yours. Just like you would write your own > book. What if you could design your own curriculums, isn't that the freedom > that you want? What would that look like? > > > > > > With regards to an LMS vs learning. I didn't say that the LMS was > learning. It's just a publishing tool, and it's up to the educators to find > a way to use them. What is wrong about that? > > > > > > That's like saying a book isn't learning. Who doesn't know that? And a > big book isn't more learning than a small one. The book is simply a tool > for distribution and the book is one component used to aid in learning. Why > can't the same be said for an LMS? Why couldn't it be a way that makes it > easy for instructors to ensure payment for their hard work? Like publishing > a book? > > > > > > I'm not really surprised by the negativity. I am surprised by the lack > of imagination. > > > > > > Put your thinking caps on! > > > > > > How could this actually work and be rewarding for all involved? You > can't tell me there is no way? > > > > > > Is that what you are saying? > > > > > > Kind regards, > > > > > > Annalisa > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Greg Mcverry > > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2018 9:21:14 AM > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: A new-ish learning platform that may be a way to > save adjuncts? > > > > Advocating for ignorance always seems to be a strange position to take. > > Though it is a position those in power have often adopted through out > > history. > > > > I would also push back that we have no idea how to to make learning > happen > > in these environments. What we might say is we have no way how to make > > learning happen in these ways that is both scalable and profitable with > > hockey stick growth. > > > > There are many folks in Open Source communities who have long created > > classes nothing like MOOCs. What is StackOverflow but a large (and > > sometimes rude) learning community? Cormier's #Rhizo classes, #DS106, > > #walkmyworld are all small scale classes in the education and art spaces > > that have been researched (though more comparative case studies and > > autoenthographies). > > > > I also think we need to stop the false distinction between our offline > and > > offline learning environments. I think part of the reason hybrid learning > > comes out favorably in meta-analysis isn't just because of the role of > the > > instructor but the computer aided yet tactile environment is an > interesting > > artifacts of tools. > > > > Finally the only way an app would help adjuncts would be if it had two > > buttons, "Pay me a living wage" and "create a "Tenure Track Position" > > > > On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 2:44 PM Glassman, Michael > > wrote: > > > >> Hi Annalisa and all others interested, > >> > >> Thanks for the link to the video, but I have to say it is pretty > >> problematic. First it calls itself a learning management system when it > >> really has nothing to do with learning. It is instead a course > management > >> system. So why do people use the phrase learning management systems - > >> because companies that sell learning management systems want them to. > >> > >> The distinction is important because while all this hardware and > software > >> is really wowsa, we pretty much have little idea how to use it to create > >> actual learning experiences. We just think it will happen because > person A > >> has knowledge, person B could use knowledge, transfer knowledge, done > and > >> done. I tend to think of the transfer model as being not very good as a > >> teaching learning model. But there are a whole bunch of other issues > which > >> we are just beginning to explore like teacher presence in online > >> situations, student relatedness (the four walls actually do play a > part), > >> individual agency, collective/collaborative agency, cognitive presences > - > >> the list just goes on. The guy on the boat (you have to watch the > video) > >> probably isn't going to be that successful. Who is going to be > successful > >> - why academy of mine will be! > >> > >> We went through this with xMOOCs. I'm old enough to remember when they > >> were going to be the new model for education. I still have discussions > >> with people who say MOOCs do good things. They reach all these people > with > >> information from experts. I ask, is there a good thing? People say, of > >> course it's a good thing. I ask is there any evidence of this? They say > >> well it's better than not reaching them with information. I ask are you > >> sure. There actually is some evidence that it's not that good a thing > from > >> Participatory Action Research. I think one of the things we have to > >> question ourselves about is why this sounds so good to us. > >> > >> This is not to say the Internet is not going to have stunning effects on > >> the way we teach and learn. We need to do the hard work of figuring why > >> and how. But this.... > >> > >> > >> Michael > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto: > >> xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Annalisa Aguilar > >> Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2018 12:56 PM > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] A new-ish learning platform that may be a way to save > >> adjuncts? > >> > >> Hello Xmcars, > >> > >> > >> A few days ago I learned about this new online learning platform > "Academy > >> Of Mine" > >> > >> > >> I think that it portends what future learning might entail. It may be a > >> way of bypassing the calcified learning patterns that no one seems to be > >> able to escape, thanks to the neoliberalization of higher learning. > >> > >> > >> This platform is also about doing business in education, but something > >> about it seems more palatable than paying presidents and other > >> administrators several hundred thousand dollar salaries to run a > university. > >> > >> > >> Here is an intro video for the platform, which I think is using > wordpress > >> for its online architecture. > >> > >> https://vimeo.com/92334633 > >> > >> [https://www.bing.com/th?id=OVP.rKgA__knRtrA5l2yfST4XAEsCo&pid=Api]< > >> https://vimeo.com/92334633> > >> > >> All-In-One Learning-Management-System - Academy Of Mine< > >> https://vimeo.com/92334633> vimeo.com If you're going to be offering a > >> course online you'll need Learning Management System Software (LMS) for > >> your online educational environment. But if you're an ... > >> > >> This might be a way in particular for adjuncts to "hold on" to their > >> course material, and perhaps at some point monetize their courses in > such a > >> way they can create another income stream. > >> > >> > >> I've not really thought this through, but I think this could be > >> paradigm-changing because Academy of Mine seems to really address the > >> technology difficulties for non-technical instructors and teachers. > >> > >> > >> I am curious what you think. > >> > >> > >> I am not affiliated with Academy of Mine, but I have an opportunity to > use > >> the platform and am just learnign about it. I was so impressed I > thought I > >> would let you all take a look. > >> > >> > >> It might make possible courses that are hybird in nature, and it could > >> possibly make experimental learning easier to set up, which would allow > >> educators to do the things they have always known works with successful > >> learning experiences, and just walk around the Maginot Line of > university > >> hegemonies. > >> > >> > >> Kind regards, > >> > >> > >> Annalisa > >> > >> > >> > > > -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson From dkellogg60@gmail.com Fri Mar 23 14:36:23 2018 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2018 06:36:23 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical In-Reply-To: References: <030AF564-E49F-4D62-A7E8-1929B7295C28@gmail.com> <4bf362ed-1c89-ca1b-3646-e2da9a109fef@marxists.org> <8bec7884-a666-b1cd-9b36-a38b816ae514@marxists.org> <8714c5bb-063f-13c0-a430-e9d670019ccc@marxists.org> <0e61135e-a370-6807-79a2-5655df9805d9@marxists.org> Message-ID: Sorry about that. I got off into a rant which I found half-baked. Here it is. Here in Korea the curriculum is being reformed (for the eighth time since 1949). The new government of Mun Jae-in has a progressive bent, and the curricular reforms were brought in during the mass movement which removed Bak Gunhye from power (and sent her predecessor, Yi Myeongbak, to prison for environmental crimes yesterday). And the new curriculum, based loosely on constructivist, Deweyan ideas but also on the ideas of "hongik ingan" (human interests broadly conceived), has four goals: a) People who can live with others (this is also the name of the ruling party, the "People-Living-With-Others Democrats") b) People who are cultivated and encultured c) People who are creative and intelligent d) Peole who are self-regulating and autonomous Now, one way to look at this--and this is, alas, the current interpretation, is that we are talking about four different kinds of people, or four separate instances of "multiple intelligence", like four superheroes locked in the child Clark Kent. That is not Vygotsky's way. Vygotsky's way would be to see this as a kind of pyramid, where a), which is an instinct the child has at birth and which probably IS genetic, is the foundation for b), which is a set of habits ("conditional responses") which the child grows into. This is the basis for c), which iinvolves adaptation to the social environment, but doing so in a way that, unlike habits, can cope with unprecedented problems. And all of this forms the pre-requisite for d), the exercise of free will. I think this is the real solution to the problem that Peter (Feigenbaum) raises: determining the role that consciousness plays in the rise of higher forms of behavior. Yes, instincts like a) arise completely without consciousness. But in every other case, there is a conscious and deliberate decision, even if it is made for reasons other than the ultimate function that the higher form of behavior must serve in human progress (e.g. political economy, and also speech). This conscious, and deliberate, decision is always the result of the process Andy has laboriously documented, collective decision making. That is how cultures are created, and it is also--pace German Romanticism--how all artistic creativity and scientific innovation comes about: it is a concerto in which the solo part is played an afterthought and a reflection upon the work of the full orchestra. Even the creation of free will is a collective achievement. You can see why I cut all that stuff, David. Not even my students are interested in it, and they have to pass a test on the curricular reform (but not on my imaginary Vygotskyan interpretation of it) which will determine whether their whole education has been in vain and the rest of their life will be a struggle, or whether they will be one of the three people in our department of fifty who will be licensed to teach in secondary schools. So instead I was going to try to develop a distinction between phonetics, which is very much the product of our hereditary endowment, and which will leave archaeological evidence that can be recovered (as Peter notes in his note on Lieberman's work) and phonology, which won't. Since most people don't understand the difference between phonetics and phonology, I tried to present it as a difference between musical instruments (which do leave an archaeological record) and the music we play on them (which leave no record at all until the advent of literacy and musical notation). That's why the earliest known melody is this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W113BDpFLBI David Kellogg Sangmyung University Recent Article in *Early Years* The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and the child?s first interrogatives Free e-print available at: https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 4:59 PM, WEBSTER, DAVID S. wrote: > Bound to agree with you re Gans and anti-Zionism/ antisemitism. Whatever > the strengths of his anthropology, firstness and resentment cannot cope > alone (if at all) with explaining contemporary socio-political situations > least of all those in the Old Testament lands. His dogmatism here has > pushed him to the right and that is to be regretted. Not sure I understand > your musical example... > > David > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg > Sent: 21 March 2018 21:27 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > > One reason for Jews like me to be sceptical of Gans is his apparent > Zionism (i.e. his insistence that there is a Jewish archaeological claim to > the land of Israel, and is conflation of anti-Zionism and anti-semitism in > the "Love and Resentment" blog). > > I am teaching phonetics and phonology this term, and one of the first > things we learn is the difference between the highly musical instrument > that we share with all of our conspecifics and the peculiar way in which we > compose music for it (including the chords of notes, the intonational > melodies, and the stress rhythms) which we share only with our speech > community. The late, great Dmitri Hvorostovsky was charged with hubris for > referring to his own mellow baritone as "the perfect instrument", but what > he really meant was that we humans have evolved our music tastes around a > universal, ideal, non-existent human voice (like Daniel Jones' cardinal > vowels, which are not the vowels of any known language). > > But I am also sceptical of Andy's desire for archaeological evidence of > language development--I agree with Gans that the question of the origins of > language is solveable by other, more indirect means (e.g. studying child > language and looking at how mitochondrial DNA changes correlate with > language dispersion). But for that very reason I think the "Jewish" claim > to Palestine is about as strong as the European claim to the Rift Valley in > Kenya. > > > David Kellogg > Sangmyung University > > Recent Article in *Early Years* > > The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and the > child?s first interrogatives doi/full/10.1080/09575146.2018.1431874> > > Free e-print available at: > https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full > > > On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 11:35 PM, WEBSTER, DAVID S. < > d.s.webster@durham.ac.uk> wrote: > > > Andy, dear heart; busy will be tomorrow, hand excavating a Neolithic > > ditch with mattock and trowel - there might even be some flints to find! > > Academic writing is pure relaxation.. > > > > Regards > > > > David > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden > > Sent: 21 March 2018 13:26 > > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > > > > In short David, because I am writing. If something caught my > > imagination I would make time for it. At the moment, like everyone > > else I suspect, I am busy. But I am still up for hard news of a > palaeontological kind. > > > > Andy > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Andy Blunden > > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > > On 22/03/2018 12:15 AM, WEBSTER, DAVID S. wrote: > > > Why read Wikipedia when you can just as easily read Gans? Sceptical, > > fine, why? > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden > > > Sent: 21 March 2018 12:49 > > > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > > > > > > Wikpedia gives a fair picture of Gans's ideas, David. I'm sceptical. > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Andy Blunden > > > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > > > On 21/03/2018 8:24 PM, WEBSTER, DAVID S. wrote: > > >> As it happens there Gans offers a blog associated with the > > >> journal 'Chronicles of Love & Resentment' but his story start with > > >> his first book 'The origins of language'. Unfortunately, > > >> palaeontological evidence philosophical speculation and semiotics > > >> are blended throughout if with shifting focus. Not much directly on > > >> tool use if memory serves but that tends to follow on in one way or > > >> another from the rest. There was no expectation that anyone would > > >> need to digest the whole of the archive but it takes little effort > > >> to dip in and see what may catch your interest or ire and start > > >> from there. You might start your Gansian journey with 'The little > > >> big bang' (i.e. event of > > >> language) http://anthropoetics.ucla.edu/ap0501/gans-2/ > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > >> [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden > > >> Sent: 21 March 2018 08:35 > > >> To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > > >> > > >> Sorry David. You directed us to the home page of a journal. > > >> I am chuffed that you have actually read some of my work, but I > > >> think > > in general people on xmca don't usually go further than reading an > > article of a few thousand words if it is relevant to a discussion. A > > whole journal archive? > > >> > > >> But if you can direct me to the article which correlates > > palaeontological evidence and speech and tool origins (not > > philosophical > > speculation) I will be all over it. (I love philosophical speculation, > > but not on this question just now). > > >> > > >> Andy > > >> > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------ > > >> Andy Blunden > > >> ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > > >> On 21/03/2018 7:10 PM, WEBSTER, DAVID S. wrote: > > >>> Please forgive my impatience but I have already directed you all > > >>> to a > > site where all the points you (collectively) have so far made, and > > all the one that you are ever likely to make on this subject, have > > been raised and comprehensively worked over by Gans and those many > > scholars who have engaged with him. The nub is the progressive > > transformation from analogue to digital required for information > > transfer between different systems operating at differing time scales. > > What Gans described in his 'originary hypothesis' is the same > > transformational operation that was used to teach deaf and alingual > > children at Zagorsk that involves taking the actions of appropriation > > (actions for life skills) and paring them down to a digital code - > > dactylic signing. For Andy: the Urpraxis, solidarity in your telling, > > arises at the originary scene of language (in Gans's telling) through > the formation of a in-group out-group relation. > > >>> > > >>> Rant Over > > >>> > > >>> Ps its not that I agree with all Gans argues, But he does attempt > > >>> to > > cover all bases where origin of language /human culture is concerned > > and in a non-sectarian/non-egotistical fashion and I therefor worth > engaging with. > > No need to reinvent the wheel here. > > >>> > > >>> -----Original Message----- > > >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > >>> [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden > > >>> Sent: 21 March 2018 05:39 > > >>> To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > > >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > > >>> > > >>> I think that the thesis that *mime* (to generalise beyond > > >>> signing) is a plausible precursor to spoken language, and there is > > >>> are > > substantial anthropological arguments to support that thesis. It seems > > to me that stone tools are precursors of tools more generally, and > > mime may be a precursor to spoken language, while the anatomical > > prerequisites to speech are evolving. How did speech become such a > > necessity that it drove anatomical change, and when/why did > > tool=making "take off" after stagnating for millennia? > > >>> > > >>> But I'm only guessing, as are you David! > > >>> > > >>> This is not a palaeontologists' list, so I guess I was > > >>> over-optimistic > > to think I'd get a decisive answer to this. > > >>> > > >>> Andy > > >>> > > >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ > > >>> Andy Blunden > > >>> ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > > >>> On 21/03/2018 4:24 PM, David Kellogg wrote: > > >>>> I meant deaf people. There's a strong argument being made by deaf > > >>>> linguists--which I agree with--that holds that spoken languages > > >>>> are an offshoot of sign rather than the other way around. This > > >>>> sheds some light on Andy's problem: people developed spoken > > >>>> languages when they found they had other things to do with their > > >>>> hands, like > > hold tools. > > >>>> But I also think that pre-linguistic children are an important > > >>>> minority that prefers the visual channel, at least for taking in > > >>>> information, just as we adults who get most of our information > > through reading do. > > >>>> > > >>>> There are some scripts that are more visual and others that are > > >>>> more auditory--and within the same script we find elements that > > >>>> are more visual (Chinese radicals) and others that are more > > >>>> auditory (the phonetic components of Chinese characters). Even in > > >>>> English there are some elements that are visually salient but not > > >>>> auditorily salient (e.g. punctuation, variations in handwriting > > >>>> styles, fonts, > > >>>> etc.) and other elements that are more auditory (the > > >>>> International Phonetic Alphabet which is really English based and > > >>>> which has sought, for over a century, a perfect match between > > >>>> phonemes and graphemes). Phonics is based on the idea that > > >>>> English has evolved towards a one phoneme-one grapheme match; in > > >>>> fact, it has evolved > > away from it. > > >>>> > > >>>> David Kellogg > > >>>> Sangmyung University > > >>>> > > >>>> Recent Article in *Early Years* > > >>>> > > >>>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, > > >>>> and the child?s first interrogatives > > >>>> > >>>> 74 > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > >>>> Free e-print available at: > > >>>> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 1:11 PM, Helena Worthen > > >>>> > > >>>> wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>>> David, what is the important minority that you?re referring to: > > >>>>> > > >>>>> "... the lowering of the vocal tract was phenomenal to language; > > >>>>> it was only an epiphenomenal circumstance which made the > > >>>>> majority of humans choose the vocal channel for language while > > >>>>> an important minority choose the visual channel? ? ? > > >>>>> > > >>>>> And how can we see what can be seen in the visual channel? > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Helena Worthen > > >>>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com > > >>>>> Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 > > >>>>> Blog US/ Viet Nam: > > >>>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > >>>>> skype: helena.worthen1 > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> On Mar 21, 2018, at 8:37 AM, David Kellogg > > >>>>>> > > wrote: > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Andy has a knack for winkling brilliant insights out of early > > Vygotsky: > > >>>>> he > > >>>>>> remarks somewhere that "Ape, Primitive, Child: Studies in the > > >>>>>> History of Behavior," a book which I really didn't care much > > >>>>>> for, taught him that whenever we decide on some essential > > >>>>>> distinction between human and non-human behavior, we > > >>>>>> necessarily find rudiments of it in non-human behavior. To > > >>>>>> which I would only add that the circumstance that the rudiments > > >>>>>> of human behavior are linked to non-human behavior doesn't > > >>>>> make > > >>>>>> them indistinguishable. On the contrary, it is really only > > >>>>>> because human behaviors are distinct that we can speak of them > > >>>>>> being linked (we don't talk of air-breathing in humans as being > > >>>>>> linked to air-breathing in apes, because the process is really > > >>>>>> one and the same; we do speak of language > > >>>>> in > > >>>>>> humans as being linked to ape vocalizations precisely because > > >>>>>> they are distinct processes). If this is true of > > >>>>>> anthropogenetic phenomena like > > >>>>> free > > >>>>>> will, language and literacy, it's also true of their > > >>>>>> symptomatic epiphenomena, such as migration, culture, and > > >>>>>> literature. I don't agree with Andy that the lowering of the > > >>>>>> vocal tract was phenomenal to > > >>>>> language; > > >>>>>> it was only an epiphenomenal circumstance which made the > > >>>>>> majority of > > >>>>> humans > > >>>>>> choose the vocal channel for language while an important > > >>>>>> minority choose the visual channel, to which the majority again > > >>>>>> reverted once alphabets > > >>>>> and > > >>>>>> literacy were invented (again, an exercise of some rudimentary > > >>>>>> form of > > >>>>> free > > >>>>>> will). > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Compare migration along a seacoast with migration into a > > >>>>>> mountainous region. One requires no major change in productive > > >>>>>> relations, while the other probably does. Similar with > > >>>>>> migration along an East-West axis. This requires relatively > > >>>>>> little free will, as the climate does not change and many of > > >>>>>> the plants and > > animals which provide food are probably the same. > > >>>>> In > > >>>>>> contrast, migration along a North-South axis, which involves > > >>>>>> climate > > >>>>> change > > >>>>>> and corresponding adaptations, would require relatively more > > >>>>>> communal discussion, the process Andy calls collaborative > > >>>>>> decision making. I think that wandering out of Africa involved, > > >>>>>> on the one hand, migration along > > >>>>> the > > >>>>>> Nile and coastlines and, on the other, migration out of a > > >>>>>> mountainous region (the Rift Valley is pretty mountainous). But > > >>>>>> it also involved migration along a North-South axis and not an > > >>>>>> East-West one. Of course, staying put in Africa probably also > > >>>>>> involved collaborative decision > > >>>>> making > > >>>>>> over millenia, but we don't have any record of the decision as > > >>>>>> we do with leaving the home continent > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> David Kellogg > > >>>>>> Sangmyung University > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Recent Article in *Early Years* > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s > > >>>>>> crises, and the child?s first interrogatives > > >>>>>> > >>>>>> 18 > > >>>>>> 7 > > >>>>>> 4 > > >>>>>> Free e-print available at: > > >>>>>> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 9:07 AM, Martin Packer > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>>> David, they wouldn't have known they were leaving their home > > >>>>>>> continent, would they? Some of them were just lucky enough to > > >>>>>>> wander in the > > >>>>> direction > > >>>>>>> of a land bridge, instead of into the ocean. Like any species > > >>>>>>> that > > >>>>> spreads > > >>>>>>> into a new geographical location, no conscious decision required. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Martin, who wandered into South America > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> On Mar 19, 2018, at 7:50 AM, David Kellogg > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>>>> Somewhere in the discussion of Monica and Fernando's article, > > >>>>>>>> Fernando > > >>>>>>> made > > >>>>>>>> the remark that history does not know "ifs". Similarly, > > >>>>>>>> Monica implied > > >>>>> at > > >>>>>>>> one point that large technological changes must be taken as > > >>>>>>>> given; they > > >>>>>>> are > > >>>>>>>> not something over which humans have control. But even if we > > >>>>>>>> accept the "Out of Africa" story which this article > > >>>>>>>> undermines, we are left > > >>>>> with > > >>>>>>>> the apparently conscious decision of early hominids to leave > > >>>>>>>> the home continent, something none of the other great apes > > >>>>>>>> ever > > determined upon. > > >>>>>>>> Vygotsky remarked that rudiments of all four forms of higher > > >>>>>>>> behavior--instinct, enculturation, creativity, and free will > > >>>>>>>> that is > > >>>>> none > > >>>>>>>> of these--appear even in infancy. So it appears that free > > >>>>>>>> will was > > >>>>> always > > >>>>>>>> part of anthropogenesis, and consequently that > > >>>>>>>> history--including > > >>>>> present > > >>>>>>>> history--knows nothing but ifs. We just don't see the others > > >>>>>>>> because we > > >>>>>>> are > > >>>>>>>> sitting in one of them. > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> David Kellogg > > >>>>>>>> Sangmyung University > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Recent Article in *Early Years* > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s > > >>>>>>>> crises, and > > >>>>> the > > >>>>>>>> child?s first interrogatives > > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> 43 > > >>>>>>>> 1 > > >>>>>>>> 8 > > >>>>>>>> 7 > > >>>>>>>> 4> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Free e-print available at: > > >>>>>>>> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 7:33 AM, mike cole > > wrote: > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> This synoptic story of the current state of research on > > >>>>>>>>> human origins > > >>>>>>> seems > > >>>>>>>>> relevant to the cultural-historical folks around. > > >>>>>>>>> mike > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> https://www.sapiens.org/evolution/human-evolution- > > >>>>>>>>> australia-asia/?utm_source=SAPIENS.org+Subscribers&utm_ > > >>>>>>>>> campaign=1b31c25316-Email+Blast+12.22.2017&utm_medium= > > >>>>>>>>> email&utm_term=0_18b7e41cd8-1b31c25316-199570669 > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > From andyb@marxists.org Sat Mar 24 20:42:05 2018 From: andyb@marxists.org (Andy Blunden) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2018 14:42:05 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Out of the mouth of babes Message-ID: <781f8f9f-f979-1f95-050f-ce99006f000f@marxists.org> What a wonderful blast of sunshine, like the first rays of summer across an arctic landscape! These kids who have "Marched for Our Lives", in such gigantic numbers. This must be the broadest movement we have seen in a generation, and so young and creative and energetic, promising a better future. The issues affecting the young (and surely this activism will flow across to education cuts, casualisation of labour, and all those broad issues which affect young people) are not sectional. This is not a movement of well-off people wanting for the poor but a movement which sees itself as defending its own vital interests. This makes it very powerful. They are even working at getting MLK-type rhetoric going in times when we might have thought that that sort of rhetoric was dead. :) Enough to make an old man cry to see this movement! Andy -- ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm From Peg.Griffin@att.net Sun Mar 25 19:37:21 2018 From: Peg.Griffin@att.net (Peg Griffin) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2018 22:37:21 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Out of the mouth of babes In-Reply-To: <781f8f9f-f979-1f95-050f-ce99006f000f@marxists.org> References: <781f8f9f-f979-1f95-050f-ce99006f000f@marxists.org> Message-ID: <001d01d3c4ab$5e5aff70$1b10fe50$@att.net> That March provided experiences that moments can yield a movement: More words and acts are planned and will be carried out with leadership by youth dedicated to hard, focused, intelligent, heart-filled work. Some as young as 9, none more than 20, they've revived so many of us! And they are not being tripped up on divisions exploited by those who make the problems in the first place. They recognize each other across all kinds of constructed barriers as fellow "troublemakers" (as John Lewis says) for those who make our problems. There was palpable unity in whispers and shouts and tears among the 800,000 on Pennsylvania Avenue, answering the calling for REV (Register, Educate, Vote at local, state and federal levels) in spring and summer acts to follow. Even the New Yorker magazine last night posted ( https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-extraordinary-inclusiveness-of-the-march-for-our-lives ) about the rarely found or built inclusivity that was a carefully arranged part of the march yesterday. That inclusion is remarkable and laudatory in and of itself. For that alone, I think we should just about kiss the youngsters' feet, sing their praises for a few days and learn how to learn from their example! In that diverse crowd on the podium and in the streets, hundreds of thousands of people wept with the brother of the twin who was shot in a neighborhood robbery, they chanted Ricardo for the Los Angeles young man whose sister told about him, they saw the tape being ripped off their mouths by the two young men who finally had a forum for inner city gun violence discussion, they empathized about police violence, they appreciated the students? understanding of so many complicated aspects of the problem, knowledge of specific details, and the rhetorical power of their talks and videos. We could see power sharing of MSD group and BLM. The focus of the national media reporting was on MSD but the students from there addressed white privilege and arranged to take up less than a third of the rally speaking time; they spread to other organizations the finances for buses full of teens and pre-teens from diverse neighborhoods near and far. There is so much that they did so well, even, Andy, rebutting the proposal to spend government money to arm teachers while highlighting government failure to provide living wages for teachers and other funds needed in education. Several times they also made clear the relation between economic inequity and locations of gun violence -- not just during crimes but also by police. This old lady's tears still well up when I recall episode after episode: Samantha, shot in the leg with shrapnel wounds in the face, threw up at the podium, but then grinned in triumph as she went right on explaining an action plan for spring and summer of full focus activism before she starts college in the fall. Emma's fully engaging silence offered us the chance to feel the 6 minutes and 20 seconds it took to kill her 17 school mates. She capped it by her final call to "Fight for your lives before it?s someone else?s job.? And so many more. Each important for the moment and all building a movement. Peg -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 11:42 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Out of the mouth of babes What a wonderful blast of sunshine, like the first rays of summer across an arctic landscape! These kids who have "Marched for Our Lives", in such gigantic numbers. This must be the broadest movement we have seen in a generation, and so young and creative and energetic, promising a better future. The issues affecting the young (and surely this activism will flow across to education cuts, casualisation of labour, and all those broad issues which affect young people) are not sectional. This is not a movement of well-off people wanting for the poor but a movement which sees itself as defending its own vital interests. This makes it very powerful. They are even working at getting MLK-type rhetoric going in times when we might have thought that that sort of rhetoric was dead. :) Enough to make an old man cry to see this movement! Andy -- ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm From helen.grimmett@monash.edu Sun Mar 25 19:58:45 2018 From: helen.grimmett@monash.edu (Helen Grimmett) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2018 13:58:45 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Out of the mouth of babes In-Reply-To: <001d01d3c4ab$5e5aff70$1b10fe50$@att.net> References: <781f8f9f-f979-1f95-050f-ce99006f000f@marxists.org> <001d01d3c4ab$5e5aff70$1b10fe50$@att.net> Message-ID: Wow...just, wow... Thanks for sharing, Peg. Even just on television from the other side of the world it looks amazing, but to hear detailed stories makes the tears well up again and restores some faith in future humanity. Helen -- *Dr HELEN GRIMMETT * Lecturer in Primary and Early Years Education *Education* Monash University Room A3.10, Peninsula Campus 47-49 Moorooduc Hwy, Frankston, VIC 3199 T: +61 3 9904 7171 E: helen.grimmett@monash.edu monash.edu *Recent work:* Grimmett, H., Forgasz, R., Williams, J., & White, S. (2018). Reimagining the role of mentor teachers in professional experience: moving to I as fellow teacher educator. *Asia-Pacific Journal of Teacher Education*, (online) 1-14. doi:10.1080/1359866X.2018.1437391 Willis, L.-D., Grimmett, H., & Heck, D. (2018). Exploring cogenerativity in initial teacher education school-university partnerships using the methodology of metalogue. In J. Kriewaldt, A. Ambrosetti, D. Rorrison, & R. Capeness (Eds.), *Educating future teachers: Innovative perspectives in professional experience *(pp. 49-69). Singapore: Springer Singapore. White, S., Forgasz, R., Grimmett, H., & Williams, J. (2017). *Teaching Academy of Professional Practice: Monash Casey professional resource.* www.partnershipprojects.info On 26 March 2018 at 13:37, Peg Griffin wrote: > That March provided experiences that moments can yield a movement: More > words and acts are planned and will be carried out with leadership by youth > dedicated to hard, focused, intelligent, heart-filled work. > Some as young as 9, none more than 20, they've revived so many of us! And > they are not being tripped up on divisions exploited by those who make the > problems in the first place. They recognize each other across all kinds of > constructed barriers as fellow "troublemakers" (as John Lewis says) for > those who make our problems. There was palpable unity in whispers and > shouts and tears among the 800,000 on Pennsylvania Avenue, answering the > calling for REV (Register, Educate, Vote at local, state and federal > levels) in spring and summer acts to follow. > > Even the New Yorker magazine last night posted ( > https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-extraordinary-inclusiveness- > of-the-march-for-our-lives ) about the rarely found or built inclusivity > that was a carefully arranged part of the march yesterday. That inclusion > is remarkable and laudatory in and of itself. For that alone, I think we > should just about kiss the youngsters' feet, sing their praises for a few > days and learn how to learn from their example! In that diverse crowd on > the podium and in the streets, hundreds of thousands of people wept with > the brother of the twin who was shot in a neighborhood robbery, they > chanted Ricardo for the Los Angeles young man whose sister told about him, > they saw the tape being ripped off their mouths by the two young men who > finally had a forum for inner city gun violence discussion, they empathized > about police violence, they appreciated the students? understanding of so > many complicated aspects of the problem, knowledge of specific details, and > the rhetorical power of their talks and videos. We could see power sharing > of MSD group and BLM. The focus of the national media reporting was on MSD > but the students from there addressed white privilege and arranged to take > up less than a third of the rally speaking time; they spread to other > organizations the finances for buses full of teens and pre-teens from > diverse neighborhoods near and far. There is so much that they did so > well, even, Andy, rebutting the proposal to spend government money to arm > teachers while highlighting government failure to provide living wages for > teachers and other funds needed in education. Several times they also made > clear the relation between economic inequity and locations of gun violence > -- not just during crimes but also by police. > > This old lady's tears still well up when I recall episode after episode: > Samantha, shot in the leg with shrapnel wounds in the face, threw up at > the podium, but then grinned in triumph as she went right on explaining an > action plan for spring and summer of full focus activism before she starts > college in the fall. > Emma's fully engaging silence offered us the chance to feel the 6 minutes > and 20 seconds it took to kill her 17 school mates. She capped it by her > final call to "Fight for your lives before it?s someone else?s job.? > And so many more. Each important for the moment and all building a > movement. > Peg > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden > Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 11:42 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Out of the mouth of babes > > What a wonderful blast of sunshine, like the first rays of summer across > an arctic landscape! These kids who have "Marched for Our Lives", in such > gigantic numbers. This must be the broadest movement we have seen in a > generation, and so young and creative and energetic, promising a better > future. The issues affecting the young (and surely this activism will flow > across to education cuts, casualisation of labour, and all those broad > issues which affect young > people) are not sectional. This is not a movement of well-off people > wanting for the poor but a movement which sees itself as defending its own > vital interests. This makes it very powerful. They are even working at > getting MLK-type rhetoric going in times when we might have thought that > that sort of rhetoric was dead. :) > > Enough to make an old man cry to see this movement! > > Andy > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > > > From mcole@ucsd.edu Sun Mar 25 20:19:36 2018 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2018 03:19:36 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Out of the mouth of babes In-Reply-To: <001d01d3c4ab$5e5aff70$1b10fe50$@att.net> References: <781f8f9f-f979-1f95-050f-ce99006f000f@marxists.org> <001d01d3c4ab$5e5aff70$1b10fe50$@att.net> Message-ID: Thanks for being there to represent us, Peg. Mike On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 7:39 PM Peg Griffin wrote: > That March provided experiences that moments can yield a movement: More > words and acts are planned and will be carried out with leadership by youth > dedicated to hard, focused, intelligent, heart-filled work. > Some as young as 9, none more than 20, they've revived so many of us! And > they are not being tripped up on divisions exploited by those who make the > problems in the first place. They recognize each other across all kinds of > constructed barriers as fellow "troublemakers" (as John Lewis says) for > those who make our problems. There was palpable unity in whispers and > shouts and tears among the 800,000 on Pennsylvania Avenue, answering the > calling for REV (Register, Educate, Vote at local, state and federal > levels) in spring and summer acts to follow. > > Even the New Yorker magazine last night posted ( > https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-extraordinary-inclusiveness-of-the-march-for-our-lives > ) about the rarely found or built inclusivity that was a carefully arranged > part of the march yesterday. That inclusion is remarkable and laudatory in > and of itself. For that alone, I think we should just about kiss the > youngsters' feet, sing their praises for a few days and learn how to learn > from their example! In that diverse crowd on the podium and in the > streets, hundreds of thousands of people wept with the brother of the twin > who was shot in a neighborhood robbery, they chanted Ricardo for the Los > Angeles young man whose sister told about him, they saw the tape being > ripped off their mouths by the two young men who finally had a forum for > inner city gun violence discussion, they empathized about police violence, > they appreciated the students? understanding of so many complicated aspects > of the problem, knowledge of specific details, and the rhetorical power of > their talks and videos. We could see power sharing of MSD group and BLM. > The focus of the national media reporting was on MSD but the students from > there addressed white privilege and arranged to take up less than a third > of the rally speaking time; they spread to other organizations the finances > for buses full of teens and pre-teens from diverse neighborhoods near and > far. There is so much that they did so well, even, Andy, rebutting the > proposal to spend government money to arm teachers while highlighting > government failure to provide living wages for teachers and other funds > needed in education. Several times they also made clear the relation > between economic inequity and locations of gun violence -- not just during > crimes but also by police. > > This old lady's tears still well up when I recall episode after episode: > Samantha, shot in the leg with shrapnel wounds in the face, threw up at > the podium, but then grinned in triumph as she went right on explaining an > action plan for spring and summer of full focus activism before she starts > college in the fall. > Emma's fully engaging silence offered us the chance to feel the 6 minutes > and 20 seconds it took to kill her 17 school mates. She capped it by her > final call to "Fight for your lives before it?s someone else?s job.? > And so many more. Each important for the moment and all building a > movement. > Peg > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto: > xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden > Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 11:42 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Out of the mouth of babes > > What a wonderful blast of sunshine, like the first rays of summer across > an arctic landscape! These kids who have "Marched for Our Lives", in such > gigantic numbers. This must be the broadest movement we have seen in a > generation, and so young and creative and energetic, promising a better > future. The issues affecting the young (and surely this activism will flow > across to education cuts, casualisation of labour, and all those broad > issues which affect young > people) are not sectional. This is not a movement of well-off people > wanting for the poor but a movement which sees itself as defending its own > vital interests. This makes it very powerful. They are even working at > getting MLK-type rhetoric going in times when we might have thought that > that sort of rhetoric was dead. :) > > Enough to make an old man cry to see this movement! > > Andy > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > > > From andyb@marxists.org Sun Mar 25 23:00:25 2018 From: andyb@marxists.org (Andy Blunden) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2018 17:00:25 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Out of the mouth of babes In-Reply-To: <001d01d3c4ab$5e5aff70$1b10fe50$@att.net> References: <781f8f9f-f979-1f95-050f-ce99006f000f@marxists.org> <001d01d3c4ab$5e5aff70$1b10fe50$@att.net> Message-ID: <1db2fbcf-5d64-b1f8-0fd1-5e34c4dd034c@marxists.org> Yes, they did so many things *right*. It is so good that this generation has been watching and learning. That we have a social movement (and abundant recruits to many more social movements for the years ahead), who also deliberately focus on getting people elected/unelected and laws passed/repealed. No sign of disdain for electoral processes (c.f. Occupy). And yet skilled and energetic on the street. One of the things about America's dominant position in the world is that your social movements tend to spread across the world as well as your soldiers and your money. :) An interesting question which Fernando and Monica have not yet commented on: Formally, the object of Saturday's marches was gun control. And yet we are all confident (aren't we?) that the student who said "Welcome to the Revolution" was also not completely mistaken. That is, that we expect to see considerable "cross-over" into a wide range of issues which are nothing to do with gun control. A cascading effect, where a successful event leads to participants and observers "raising the stakes" is a known phenomenon. Brecht de Smet (an xmca-er) observed it in the events Egypt which did not start by calling for the end of the regime, but escalated to that object. My friend Mitch Abidor said the same thing happened in Paris May 68 - one thing led to another - people discovered that they weren't they only ones .... What was it about the 18th school shooting in 2018 which triggered this response? How much had 14 months of Trump to do with it? MDS is a "grade A" school - was this a factor in its being a trigger? ... Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm On 26/03/2018 1:37 PM, Peg Griffin wrote: > That March provided experiences that moments can yield a movement: More words and acts are planned and will be carried out with leadership by youth dedicated to hard, focused, intelligent, heart-filled work. > Some as young as 9, none more than 20, they've revived so many of us! And they are not being tripped up on divisions exploited by those who make the problems in the first place. They recognize each other across all kinds of constructed barriers as fellow "troublemakers" (as John Lewis says) for those who make our problems. There was palpable unity in whispers and shouts and tears among the 800,000 on Pennsylvania Avenue, answering the calling for REV (Register, Educate, Vote at local, state and federal levels) in spring and summer acts to follow. > > Even the New Yorker magazine last night posted ( https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-extraordinary-inclusiveness-of-the-march-for-our-lives ) about the rarely found or built inclusivity that was a carefully arranged part of the march yesterday. That inclusion is remarkable and laudatory in and of itself. For that alone, I think we should just about kiss the youngsters' feet, sing their praises for a few days and learn how to learn from their example! In that diverse crowd on the podium and in the streets, hundreds of thousands of people wept with the brother of the twin who was shot in a neighborhood robbery, they chanted Ricardo for the Los Angeles young man whose sister told about him, they saw the tape being ripped off their mouths by the two young men who finally had a forum for inner city gun violence discussion, they empathized about police violence, they appreciated the students? understanding of so many complicated aspects of the problem, knowledge of specific > details, and the rhetorical power of their talks and videos. We could see power sharing of MSD group and BLM. The focus of the national media reporting was on MSD but the students from there addressed white privilege and arranged to take up less than a third of the rally speaking time; they spread to other organizations the finances for buses full of teens and pre-teens from diverse neighborhoods near and far. There is so much that they did so well, even, Andy, rebutting the proposal to spend government money to arm teachers while highlighting government failure to provide living wages for teachers and other funds needed in education. Several times they also made clear the relation between economic inequity and locations of gun violence -- not just during crimes but also by police. > > This old lady's tears still well up when I recall episode after episode: > Samantha, shot in the leg with shrapnel wounds in the face, threw up at the podium, but then grinned in triumph as she went right on explaining an action plan for spring and summer of full focus activism before she starts college in the fall. > Emma's fully engaging silence offered us the chance to feel the 6 minutes and 20 seconds it took to kill her 17 school mates. She capped it by her final call to "Fight for your lives before it?s someone else?s job.? > And so many more. Each important for the moment and all building a movement. > Peg > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden > Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 11:42 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Out of the mouth of babes > > What a wonderful blast of sunshine, like the first rays of summer across an arctic landscape! These kids who have "Marched for Our Lives", in such gigantic numbers. This must be the broadest movement we have seen in a generation, and so young and creative and energetic, promising a better future. The issues affecting the young (and surely this activism will flow across to education cuts, casualisation of labour, and all those broad issues which affect young > people) are not sectional. This is not a movement of well-off people wanting for the poor but a movement which sees itself as defending its own vital interests. This makes it very powerful. They are even working at getting MLK-type rhetoric going in times when we might have thought that that sort of rhetoric was dead. :) > > Enough to make an old man cry to see this movement! > > Andy > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > > From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Mon Mar 26 01:00:47 2018 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2018 08:00:47 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Out of the mouth of babes In-Reply-To: <1db2fbcf-5d64-b1f8-0fd1-5e34c4dd034c@marxists.org> References: <781f8f9f-f979-1f95-050f-ce99006f000f@marxists.org> <001d01d3c4ab$5e5aff70$1b10fe50$@att.net>, <1db2fbcf-5d64-b1f8-0fd1-5e34c4dd034c@marxists.org> Message-ID: <1522051247565.96222@iped.uio.no> Yes, it has been really inspiring to see and follow Saturday's "March for our Lives," and I am hopeful that Andy is right concerning escalation. I was particularly moved by Emma's 6 minutes 20 seconds silence (and that is the force of the movement, right? that it moves, that it is moving to see and join and makes to want/feel/join). It really brought up a performative, aesthetic dimension to the event that was arresting. During those seconds of abrupt silence you could see, hear and touch the absolute weight of the tragic event, not only in the silence, but also in the people's sobers, sudden screams, the unbearability of that weight and the struggle to bear it. That was one of the most powerful artistic instalments that I have witnessed. Talk of perezhivanie! To me, that was an impressive display of talent and competence to lead movement and move, and do so with content. I see very little of that in adult politics, unfortunately. Alfredo Jornet ________________________________ New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and intransitive dimensions" Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Andy Blunden Sent: 26 March 2018 08:00 To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Out of the mouth of babes Yes, they did so many things *right*. It is so good that this generation has been watching and learning. That we have a social movement (and abundant recruits to many more social movements for the years ahead), who also deliberately focus on getting people elected/unelected and laws passed/repealed. No sign of disdain for electoral processes (c.f. Occupy). And yet skilled and energetic on the street. One of the things about America's dominant position in the world is that your social movements tend to spread across the world as well as your soldiers and your money. :) An interesting question which Fernando and Monica have not yet commented on: Formally, the object of Saturday's marches was gun control. And yet we are all confident (aren't we?) that the student who said "Welcome to the Revolution" was also not completely mistaken. That is, that we expect to see considerable "cross-over" into a wide range of issues which are nothing to do with gun control. A cascading effect, where a successful event leads to participants and observers "raising the stakes" is a known phenomenon. Brecht de Smet (an xmca-er) observed it in the events Egypt which did not start by calling for the end of the regime, but escalated to that object. My friend Mitch Abidor said the same thing happened in Paris May 68 - one thing led to another - people discovered that they weren't they only ones .... What was it about the 18th school shooting in 2018 which triggered this response? How much had 14 months of Trump to do with it? MDS is a "grade A" school - was this a factor in its being a trigger? ... Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm On 26/03/2018 1:37 PM, Peg Griffin wrote: > That March provided experiences that moments can yield a movement: More words and acts are planned and will be carried out with leadership by youth dedicated to hard, focused, intelligent, heart-filled work. > Some as young as 9, none more than 20, they've revived so many of us! And they are not being tripped up on divisions exploited by those who make the problems in the first place. They recognize each other across all kinds of constructed barriers as fellow "troublemakers" (as John Lewis says) for those who make our problems. There was palpable unity in whispers and shouts and tears among the 800,000 on Pennsylvania Avenue, answering the calling for REV (Register, Educate, Vote at local, state and federal levels) in spring and summer acts to follow. > > Even the New Yorker magazine last night posted ( https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-extraordinary-inclusiveness-of-the-march-for-our-lives ) about the rarely found or built inclusivity that was a carefully arranged part of the march yesterday. That inclusion is remarkable and laudatory in and of itself. For that alone, I think we should just about kiss the youngsters' feet, sing their praises for a few days and learn how to learn from their example! In that diverse crowd on the podium and in the streets, hundreds of thousands of people wept with the brother of the twin who was shot in a neighborhood robbery, they chanted Ricardo for the Los Angeles young man whose sister told about him, they saw the tape being ripped off their mouths by the two young men who finally had a forum for inner city gun violence discussion, they empathized about police violence, they appreciated the students? understanding of so many complicated aspects of the problem, knowledge of specific > details, and the rhetorical power of their talks and videos. We could see power sharing of MSD group and BLM. The focus of the national media reporting was on MSD but the students from there addressed white privilege and arranged to take up less than a third of the rally speaking time; they spread to other organizations the finances for buses full of teens and pre-teens from diverse neighborhoods near and far. There is so much that they did so well, even, Andy, rebutting the proposal to spend government money to arm teachers while highlighting government failure to provide living wages for teachers and other funds needed in education. Several times they also made clear the relation between economic inequity and locations of gun violence -- not just during crimes but also by police. > > This old lady's tears still well up when I recall episode after episode: > Samantha, shot in the leg with shrapnel wounds in the face, threw up at the podium, but then grinned in triumph as she went right on explaining an action plan for spring and summer of full focus activism before she starts college in the fall. > Emma's fully engaging silence offered us the chance to feel the 6 minutes and 20 seconds it took to kill her 17 school mates. She capped it by her final call to "Fight for your lives before it?s someone else?s job.? > And so many more. Each important for the moment and all building a movement. > Peg > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden > Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 11:42 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Out of the mouth of babes > > What a wonderful blast of sunshine, like the first rays of summer across an arctic landscape! These kids who have "Marched for Our Lives", in such gigantic numbers. This must be the broadest movement we have seen in a generation, and so young and creative and energetic, promising a better future. The issues affecting the young (and surely this activism will flow across to education cuts, casualisation of labour, and all those broad issues which affect young > people) are not sectional. This is not a movement of well-off people wanting for the poor but a movement which sees itself as defending its own vital interests. This makes it very powerful. They are even working at getting MLK-type rhetoric going in times when we might have thought that that sort of rhetoric was dead. :) > > Enough to make an old man cry to see this movement! > > Andy > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > > From pfeigenbaum@fordham.edu Mon Mar 26 06:52:43 2018 From: pfeigenbaum@fordham.edu (Peter Feigenbaum [Staff]) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2018 09:52:43 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical Message-ID: Regarding my earlier comment about the historical transition from collective activity that is unconscious and inadvertent to that which is conscious and deliberate, I would like to add a subsequent reflection that will (hopefully) complicate that rather overly simplistic description. In his amusing and informative book Cows, Pigs, War, and Witchs: The Riddles of Culture, ( https://www.amazon.com/Cows-Pigs-Wars-Witches-Riddles/dp/0679724680 ), Marvin Harris presents an altenative veiw on cultural taboos. He looks beneath the commonly held explanations for maintaining certain cultural practices, such as the Hindu taboo against killing cows, the Jewish taboo against eating pork, etc., and shows that those cultural stories are not true explanations at all, but rationalizations. Using a materialist analysis, he makes a persuasive case that the causes of these practices are economic at their root. For example, if Hindus began to kill and eat cows, their economy would crumble because the cow and its byproducts are essential to daily living. In the case of Jews not eating pork, he argues that to invest in raising (and eating) pigs, Jews would have to sacrifice their nomadic life. What Harris reveals is a sort of semi-conscious thought process in which culture develops fables to explain already existing practices - practices that have their root in cultural survival, but which have been accounted for by mythology rather than science. So my earlier representation of an unconscious-to-conscious development in collective practice is strictly speaking not true, and it could be improved by including an intermediate stage of semi-conscious practice in which the reasons for a particular cultural practice are presented not as a deliberate plan for future action, but as a rationalization of past action. I would argue that a rationalization such as *Jews don't eat pork because of the health hazards of eating uncooked meat* is not really a form of deliberation, but instead a form of mental reflection. I tend to pose issues in rather stark, black-and-white form in order to highlight the essential dialectical dynamics, but I recognize that that isn't always the most helpful approach. Sorry if I posed the issue in such either-or terms. Peter On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 5:36 PM, David Kellogg wrote: > Sorry about that. I got off into a rant which I found half-baked. Here it > is. > > Here in Korea the curriculum is being reformed (for the eighth time since > 1949). The new government of Mun Jae-in has a progressive bent, and the > curricular reforms were brought in during the mass movement which removed > Bak Gunhye from power (and sent her predecessor, Yi Myeongbak, to prison > for environmental crimes yesterday). And the new curriculum, based loosely > on constructivist, Deweyan ideas but also on the ideas of "hongik ingan" > (human interests broadly conceived), has four goals: > > a) People who can live with others (this is also the name of the ruling > party, the "People-Living-With-Others Democrats") > b) People who are cultivated and encultured > c) People who are creative and intelligent > d) Peole who are self-regulating and autonomous > > Now, one way to look at this--and this is, alas, the current > interpretation, is that we are talking about four different kinds of > people, or four separate instances of "multiple intelligence", like > four superheroes locked in the child Clark Kent. > > That is not Vygotsky's way. Vygotsky's way would be to see this as a kind > of pyramid, where a), which is an instinct the child has at birth and which > probably IS genetic, is the foundation for b), which is a set of habits > ("conditional responses") which the child grows into. This is the basis for > c), which iinvolves adaptation to the social environment, but doing so in a > way that, unlike habits, can cope with unprecedented problems. And all of > this forms the pre-requisite for d), the exercise of free will. > > I think this is the real solution to the problem that Peter (Feigenbaum) > raises: determining the role that consciousness plays in the rise of higher > forms of behavior. Yes, instincts like a) arise completely without > consciousness. But in every other case, there is a conscious and deliberate > decision, even if it is made for reasons other than the ultimate function > that the higher form of behavior must serve in human progress (e.g. > political economy, and also speech). This conscious, and deliberate, > decision is always the result of the process Andy has laboriously > documented, collective decision making. That is how cultures are created, > and it is also--pace German Romanticism--how all artistic creativity and > scientific innovation comes about: it is a concerto in which the solo part > is played an afterthought and a reflection upon the work of the full > orchestra. Even the creation of free will is a collective achievement. > > You can see why I cut all that stuff, David. Not even my students are > interested in it, and they have to pass a test on the curricular reform > (but not on my imaginary Vygotskyan interpretation of it) which will > determine whether their whole education has been in vain and the rest of > their life will be a struggle, or whether they will be one of the three > people in our department of fifty who will be licensed to teach in > secondary schools. So instead I was going to try to develop a distinction > between phonetics, which is very much the product of our hereditary > endowment, and which will leave archaeological evidence that can be > recovered (as Peter notes in his note on Lieberman's work) and phonology, > which won't. Since most people don't understand the difference between > phonetics and phonology, I tried to present it as a difference between > musical instruments (which do leave an archaeological record) and the music > we play on them (which leave no record at all until the advent of literacy > and musical notation). That's why the earliest known melody is this one: > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www. > youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3DW113BDpFLBI&d=DwIFaQ&c= > aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r= > mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=OeK-Twt896_fP5YkryhcWnz-H- > wWia5gs8qcbuYtq8k&s=2nGuHIarbUI1Ee26Y8nBFqKGa7wTuBq3HpFbB7tEMFw&e= > > > > David Kellogg > Sangmyung University > > Recent Article in *Early Years* > > The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and the > child?s first interrogatives > 3A__www.tandfonline.com_doi_full_10.1080_09575146.2018.1431874&d=DwIFaQ&c= > aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r= > mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=OeK-Twt896_fP5YkryhcWnz-H- > wWia5gs8qcbuYtq8k&s=Udr3r_HajCs9a6OvjoIomHneskyjktyKraz0NGjQQx0&e=> > > Free e-print available at: > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www. > tandfonline.com_eprint_6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW_full&d=DwIFaQ&c= > aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r= > mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=OeK-Twt896_fP5YkryhcWnz-H- > wWia5gs8qcbuYtq8k&s=MMkIpd8aAspXD8TZt3uXpU5yY-v9kX3b4LFbqQ48uCQ&e= > > > On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 4:59 PM, WEBSTER, DAVID S. < > d.s.webster@durham.ac.uk > > wrote: > > > Bound to agree with you re Gans and anti-Zionism/ antisemitism. Whatever > > the strengths of his anthropology, firstness and resentment cannot cope > > alone (if at all) with explaining contemporary socio-political situations > > least of all those in the Old Testament lands. His dogmatism here has > > pushed him to the right and that is to be regretted. Not sure I > understand > > your musical example... > > > > David > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg > > Sent: 21 March 2018 21:27 > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > > > > One reason for Jews like me to be sceptical of Gans is his apparent > > Zionism (i.e. his insistence that there is a Jewish archaeological claim > to > > the land of Israel, and is conflation of anti-Zionism and anti-semitism > in > > the "Love and Resentment" blog). > > > > I am teaching phonetics and phonology this term, and one of the first > > things we learn is the difference between the highly musical instrument > > that we share with all of our conspecifics and the peculiar way in which > we > > compose music for it (including the chords of notes, the intonational > > melodies, and the stress rhythms) which we share only with our speech > > community. The late, great Dmitri Hvorostovsky was charged with hubris > for > > referring to his own mellow baritone as "the perfect instrument", but > what > > he really meant was that we humans have evolved our music tastes around a > > universal, ideal, non-existent human voice (like Daniel Jones' cardinal > > vowels, which are not the vowels of any known language). > > > > But I am also sceptical of Andy's desire for archaeological evidence of > > language development--I agree with Gans that the question of the origins > of > > language is solveable by other, more indirect means (e.g. studying child > > language and looking at how mitochondrial DNA changes correlate with > > language dispersion). But for that very reason I think the "Jewish" claim > > to Palestine is about as strong as the European claim to the Rift Valley > in > > Kenya. > > > > > > David Kellogg > > Sangmyung University > > > > Recent Article in *Early Years* > > > > The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and the > > child?s first interrogatives proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.tandfonline.com_&d=DwIFaQ&c= > aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r= > mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=OeK-Twt896_fP5YkryhcWnz-H- > wWia5gs8qcbuYtq8k&s=MChqG8cy6pl-MaI-gseNXI1Btz67jgQ7MAtQyjmO6iY&e= > > doi/full/10.1080/09575146.2018.1431874> > > > > Free e-print available at: > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www. > tandfonline.com_eprint_6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW_full&d=DwIFaQ&c= > aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r= > mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=OeK-Twt896_fP5YkryhcWnz-H- > wWia5gs8qcbuYtq8k&s=MMkIpd8aAspXD8TZt3uXpU5yY-v9kX3b4LFbqQ48uCQ&e= > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 11:35 PM, WEBSTER, DAVID S. < > > d.s.webster@durham.ac.uk> wrote: > > > > > Andy, dear heart; busy will be tomorrow, hand excavating a Neolithic > > > ditch with mattock and trowel - there might even be some flints to > find! > > > Academic writing is pure relaxation.. > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > David > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden > > > Sent: 21 March 2018 13:26 > > > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > > > > > > In short David, because I am writing. If something caught my > > > imagination I would make time for it. At the moment, like everyone > > > else I suspect, I am busy. But I am still up for hard news of a > > palaeontological kind. > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Andy Blunden > > > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > > > On 22/03/2018 12:15 AM, WEBSTER, DAVID S. wrote: > > > > Why read Wikipedia when you can just as easily read Gans? Sceptical, > > > fine, why? > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden > > > > Sent: 21 March 2018 12:49 > > > > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > > > > > > > > Wikpedia gives a fair picture of Gans's ideas, David. I'm sceptical. > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > Andy Blunden > > > > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > > > > On 21/03/2018 8:24 PM, WEBSTER, DAVID S. wrote: > > > >> As it happens there Gans offers a blog associated with the > > > >> journal 'Chronicles of Love & Resentment' but his story start with > > > >> his first book 'The origins of language'. Unfortunately, > > > >> palaeontological evidence philosophical speculation and semiotics > > > >> are blended throughout if with shifting focus. Not much directly on > > > >> tool use if memory serves but that tends to follow on in one way or > > > >> another from the rest. There was no expectation that anyone would > > > >> need to digest the whole of the archive but it takes little effort > > > >> to dip in and see what may catch your interest or ire and start > > > >> from there. You might start your Gansian journey with 'The little > > > >> big bang' (i.e. event of > > > >> language) https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__ > anthropoetics.ucla.edu_ap0501_gans-2D2_&d=DwIFaQ&c= > aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r= > mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=OeK-Twt896_fP5YkryhcWnz-H- > wWia5gs8qcbuYtq8k&s=JKYoocLdmKVqJ8YNqGzkk__J6HMxWFY0RMtx7KbuHa4&e= > > > >> > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > >> [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden > > > >> Sent: 21 March 2018 08:35 > > > >> To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > > > >> > > > >> Sorry David. You directed us to the home page of a journal. > > > >> I am chuffed that you have actually read some of my work, but I > > > >> think > > > in general people on xmca don't usually go further than reading an > > > article of a few thousand words if it is relevant to a discussion. A > > > whole journal archive? > > > >> > > > >> But if you can direct me to the article which correlates > > > palaeontological evidence and speech and tool origins (not > > > philosophical > > > speculation) I will be all over it. (I love philosophical speculation, > > > but not on this question just now). > > > >> > > > >> Andy > > > >> > > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > >> Andy Blunden > > > >> ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > > > >> On 21/03/2018 7:10 PM, WEBSTER, DAVID S. wrote: > > > >>> Please forgive my impatience but I have already directed you all > > > >>> to a > > > site where all the points you (collectively) have so far made, and > > > all the one that you are ever likely to make on this subject, have > > > been raised and comprehensively worked over by Gans and those many > > > scholars who have engaged with him. The nub is the progressive > > > transformation from analogue to digital required for information > > > transfer between different systems operating at differing time scales. > > > What Gans described in his 'originary hypothesis' is the same > > > transformational operation that was used to teach deaf and alingual > > > children at Zagorsk that involves taking the actions of appropriation > > > (actions for life skills) and paring them down to a digital code - > > > dactylic signing. For Andy: the Urpraxis, solidarity in your telling, > > > arises at the originary scene of language (in Gans's telling) through > > the formation of a in-group out-group relation. > > > >>> > > > >>> Rant Over > > > >>> > > > >>> Ps its not that I agree with all Gans argues, But he does attempt > > > >>> to > > > cover all bases where origin of language /human culture is concerned > > > and in a non-sectarian/non-egotistical fashion and I therefor worth > > engaging with. > > > No need to reinvent the wheel here. > > > >>> > > > >>> -----Original Message----- > > > >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > >>> [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden > > > >>> Sent: 21 March 2018 05:39 > > > >>> To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > > > >>> > > > >>> I think that the thesis that *mime* (to generalise beyond > > > >>> signing) is a plausible precursor to spoken language, and there is > > > >>> are > > > substantial anthropological arguments to support that thesis. It seems > > > to me that stone tools are precursors of tools more generally, and > > > mime may be a precursor to spoken language, while the anatomical > > > prerequisites to speech are evolving. How did speech become such a > > > necessity that it drove anatomical change, and when/why did > > > tool=making "take off" after stagnating for millennia? > > > >>> > > > >>> But I'm only guessing, as are you David! > > > >>> > > > >>> This is not a palaeontologists' list, so I guess I was > > > >>> over-optimistic > > > to think I'd get a decisive answer to this. > > > >>> > > > >>> Andy > > > >>> > > > >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > >>> Andy Blunden > > > >>> ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > > > >>> On 21/03/2018 4:24 PM, David Kellogg wrote: > > > >>>> I meant deaf people. There's a strong argument being made by deaf > > > >>>> linguists--which I agree with--that holds that spoken languages > > > >>>> are an offshoot of sign rather than the other way around. This > > > >>>> sheds some light on Andy's problem: people developed spoken > > > >>>> languages when they found they had other things to do with their > > > >>>> hands, like > > > hold tools. > > > >>>> But I also think that pre-linguistic children are an important > > > >>>> minority that prefers the visual channel, at least for taking in > > > >>>> information, just as we adults who get most of our information > > > through reading do. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> There are some scripts that are more visual and others that are > > > >>>> more auditory--and within the same script we find elements that > > > >>>> are more visual (Chinese radicals) and others that are more > > > >>>> auditory (the phonetic components of Chinese characters). Even in > > > >>>> English there are some elements that are visually salient but not > > > >>>> auditorily salient (e.g. punctuation, variations in handwriting > > > >>>> styles, fonts, > > > >>>> etc.) and other elements that are more auditory (the > > > >>>> International Phonetic Alphabet which is really English based and > > > >>>> which has sought, for over a century, a perfect match between > > > >>>> phonemes and graphemes). Phonics is based on the idea that > > > >>>> English has evolved towards a one phoneme-one grapheme match; in > > > >>>> fact, it has evolved > > > away from it. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> David Kellogg > > > >>>> Sangmyung University > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Recent Article in *Early Years* > > > >>>> > > > >>>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, > > > >>>> and the child?s first interrogatives > > > >>>> 3A__www.tandfonline.com_doi_full_10.1080_09575146.2018.14318&d=DwIFaQ&c= > aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r= > mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=OeK-Twt896_fP5YkryhcWnz-H- > wWia5gs8qcbuYtq8k&s=WWYjBDYFFZ3L5Hv1hueVvJtqQD5bZ3EyVE7-kau0QJI&e= > > > >>>> 74 > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Free e-print available at: > > > >>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www. > tandfonline.com_eprint_6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW_full&d=DwIFaQ&c= > aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r= > mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=OeK-Twt896_fP5YkryhcWnz-H- > wWia5gs8qcbuYtq8k&s=MMkIpd8aAspXD8TZt3uXpU5yY-v9kX3b4LFbqQ48uCQ&e= > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 1:11 PM, Helena Worthen > > > >>>> > > > >>>> wrote: > > > >>>> > > > >>>>> David, what is the important minority that you?re referring to: > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> "... the lowering of the vocal tract was phenomenal to language; > > > >>>>> it was only an epiphenomenal circumstance which made the > > > >>>>> majority of humans choose the vocal channel for language while > > > >>>>> an important minority choose the visual channel? ? ? > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> And how can we see what can be seen in the visual channel? > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Helena Worthen > > > >>>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com > > > >>>>> Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 > > > >>>>> Blog US/ Viet Nam: > > > >>>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > > >>>>> skype: helena.worthen1 > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>>> On Mar 21, 2018, at 8:37 AM, David Kellogg > > > >>>>>> > > > wrote: > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> Andy has a knack for winkling brilliant insights out of early > > > Vygotsky: > > > >>>>> he > > > >>>>>> remarks somewhere that "Ape, Primitive, Child: Studies in the > > > >>>>>> History of Behavior," a book which I really didn't care much > > > >>>>>> for, taught him that whenever we decide on some essential > > > >>>>>> distinction between human and non-human behavior, we > > > >>>>>> necessarily find rudiments of it in non-human behavior. To > > > >>>>>> which I would only add that the circumstance that the rudiments > > > >>>>>> of human behavior are linked to non-human behavior doesn't > > > >>>>> make > > > >>>>>> them indistinguishable. On the contrary, it is really only > > > >>>>>> because human behaviors are distinct that we can speak of them > > > >>>>>> being linked (we don't talk of air-breathing in humans as being > > > >>>>>> linked to air-breathing in apes, because the process is really > > > >>>>>> one and the same; we do speak of language > > > >>>>> in > > > >>>>>> humans as being linked to ape vocalizations precisely because > > > >>>>>> they are distinct processes). If this is true of > > > >>>>>> anthropogenetic phenomena like > > > >>>>> free > > > >>>>>> will, language and literacy, it's also true of their > > > >>>>>> symptomatic epiphenomena, such as migration, culture, and > > > >>>>>> literature. I don't agree with Andy that the lowering of the > > > >>>>>> vocal tract was phenomenal to > > > >>>>> language; > > > >>>>>> it was only an epiphenomenal circumstance which made the > > > >>>>>> majority of > > > >>>>> humans > > > >>>>>> choose the vocal channel for language while an important > > > >>>>>> minority choose the visual channel, to which the majority again > > > >>>>>> reverted once alphabets > > > >>>>> and > > > >>>>>> literacy were invented (again, an exercise of some rudimentary > > > >>>>>> form of > > > >>>>> free > > > >>>>>> will). > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> Compare migration along a seacoast with migration into a > > > >>>>>> mountainous region. One requires no major change in productive > > > >>>>>> relations, while the other probably does. Similar with > > > >>>>>> migration along an East-West axis. This requires relatively > > > >>>>>> little free will, as the climate does not change and many of > > > >>>>>> the plants and > > > animals which provide food are probably the same. > > > >>>>> In > > > >>>>>> contrast, migration along a North-South axis, which involves > > > >>>>>> climate > > > >>>>> change > > > >>>>>> and corresponding adaptations, would require relatively more > > > >>>>>> communal discussion, the process Andy calls collaborative > > > >>>>>> decision making. I think that wandering out of Africa involved, > > > >>>>>> on the one hand, migration along > > > >>>>> the > > > >>>>>> Nile and coastlines and, on the other, migration out of a > > > >>>>>> mountainous region (the Rift Valley is pretty mountainous). But > > > >>>>>> it also involved migration along a North-South axis and not an > > > >>>>>> East-West one. Of course, staying put in Africa probably also > > > >>>>>> involved collaborative decision > > > >>>>> making > > > >>>>>> over millenia, but we don't have any record of the decision as > > > >>>>>> we do with leaving the home continent > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> David Kellogg > > > >>>>>> Sangmyung University > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> Recent Article in *Early Years* > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s > > > >>>>>> crises, and the child?s first interrogatives > > > >>>>>> 3A__www.tandfonline.com_doi_full_10.1080_09575146.2018.143&d=DwIFaQ&c= > aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r= > mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=OeK-Twt896_fP5YkryhcWnz-H- > wWia5gs8qcbuYtq8k&s=jnPoUcwlAvYzStYQSwquzVpBwNE9RCI9i_RTeViZBiU&e= > > > >>>>>> 18 > > > >>>>>> 7 > > > >>>>>> 4 > > > >>>>>> Free e-print available at: > > > >>>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www. > tandfonline.com_eprint_6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW_full&d=DwIFaQ&c= > aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r= > mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=OeK-Twt896_fP5YkryhcWnz-H- > wWia5gs8qcbuYtq8k&s=MMkIpd8aAspXD8TZt3uXpU5yY-v9kX3b4LFbqQ48uCQ&e= > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 9:07 AM, Martin Packer > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>> wrote: > > > >>>>>>> David, they wouldn't have known they were leaving their home > > > >>>>>>> continent, would they? Some of them were just lucky enough to > > > >>>>>>> wander in the > > > >>>>> direction > > > >>>>>>> of a land bridge, instead of into the ocean. Like any species > > > >>>>>>> that > > > >>>>> spreads > > > >>>>>>> into a new geographical location, no conscious decision > required. > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> Martin, who wandered into South America > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> On Mar 19, 2018, at 7:50 AM, David Kellogg > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>> wrote: > > > >>>>>>>> Somewhere in the discussion of Monica and Fernando's article, > > > >>>>>>>> Fernando > > > >>>>>>> made > > > >>>>>>>> the remark that history does not know "ifs". Similarly, > > > >>>>>>>> Monica implied > > > >>>>> at > > > >>>>>>>> one point that large technological changes must be taken as > > > >>>>>>>> given; they > > > >>>>>>> are > > > >>>>>>>> not something over which humans have control. But even if we > > > >>>>>>>> accept the "Out of Africa" story which this article > > > >>>>>>>> undermines, we are left > > > >>>>> with > > > >>>>>>>> the apparently conscious decision of early hominids to leave > > > >>>>>>>> the home continent, something none of the other great apes > > > >>>>>>>> ever > > > determined upon. > > > >>>>>>>> Vygotsky remarked that rudiments of all four forms of higher > > > >>>>>>>> behavior--instinct, enculturation, creativity, and free will > > > >>>>>>>> that is > > > >>>>> none > > > >>>>>>>> of these--appear even in infancy. So it appears that free > > > >>>>>>>> will was > > > >>>>> always > > > >>>>>>>> part of anthropogenesis, and consequently that > > > >>>>>>>> history--including > > > >>>>> present > > > >>>>>>>> history--knows nothing but ifs. We just don't see the others > > > >>>>>>>> because we > > > >>>>>>> are > > > >>>>>>>> sitting in one of them. > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> David Kellogg > > > >>>>>>>> Sangmyung University > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> Recent Article in *Early Years* > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s > > > >>>>>>>> crises, and > > > >>>>> the > > > >>>>>>>> child?s first interrogatives > > > >>>>>>>> 3A__www.tandfonline.com_doi_full_10.1080_09575146.2018.1&d=DwIFaQ&c= > aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r= > mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=OeK-Twt896_fP5YkryhcWnz-H- > wWia5gs8qcbuYtq8k&s=xZk7pwX7o2SL9vAsgmcvpbhq9ZGjmQUpF0Eu9r-pPvQ&e= > > > >>>>>>>> 43 > > > >>>>>>>> 1 > > > >>>>>>>> 8 > > > >>>>>>>> 7 > > > >>>>>>>> 4> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> Free e-print available at: > > > >>>>>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www. > tandfonline.com_eprint_6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW_full&d=DwIFaQ&c= > aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r= > mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=OeK-Twt896_fP5YkryhcWnz-H- > wWia5gs8qcbuYtq8k&s=MMkIpd8aAspXD8TZt3uXpU5yY-v9kX3b4LFbqQ48uCQ&e= > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 7:33 AM, mike cole > > > wrote: > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> This synoptic story of the current state of research on > > > >>>>>>>>> human origins > > > >>>>>>> seems > > > >>>>>>>>> relevant to the cultural-historical folks around. > > > >>>>>>>>> mike > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www. > sapiens.org_evolution_human-2Devolution-2D&d=DwIFaQ&c= > aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r= > mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=OeK-Twt896_fP5YkryhcWnz-H- > wWia5gs8qcbuYtq8k&s=u2Ejj7gSxnmViAIW36-loGmxDNSW2k1Ie8NgJqHBAGE&e= > > > >>>>>>>>> australia-asia/?utm_source=SAPIENS.org+Subscribers&utm_ > > > >>>>>>>>> campaign=1b31c25316-Email+Blast+12.22.2017&utm_medium= > > > >>>>>>>>> email&utm_term=0_18b7e41cd8-1b31c25316-199570669 > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Peter Feigenbaum, Ph.D. Director, Office of Institutional Research Fordham University Thebaud Hall-202 Bronx, NY 10458 Phone: (718) 817-2243 Fax: (718) 817-3817 email: pfeigenbaum@fordham.edu From smago@uga.edu Tue Mar 27 03:15:00 2018 From: smago@uga.edu (Peter Smagorinsky) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2018 10:15:00 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] The final chapter of Vygotsky's Thinking and Speech: A reader's guide Message-ID: The final chapter of Vygotsky's Thinking and Speech: A reader's guide Ren? van der Veer1,2 Ekaterina Zavershneva3 1Department of Education, Leiden University, Leiden, 2311, The Netherlands 2School of Psychology, University of Magallanes, Punta Arenas, 01855, Chile 3Department of Psychology, Moscow University of Medicine and Dentistry,Moscow, 127473, Russia Correspondence Ren? van derVeer,Department of Education, Leiden University, 2311 Leiden, The Netherlands. Email:VEER@FSW.leidenuniv.nl Abstract The seventh and last chapter of Vygotsky's Thinking and Speech (1934) is generally considered as his final word in psychology. It is a long chapter with a complex argumentative structure in which Vygotsky gives his view on the relationship between thinking and speech. Vygotsky's biographers have stated that the chapter was dictated in the final months of Vygotsky's life when his health was rapidly deteriorating. Although the chapter is famous, its structure has never been analyzed in any detail. In the present article we reveal its rhetorical structure and show how Vygotsky drew on many hitherto unrevealed sources to convince the reader of his viewpoint. KEYWORDS authorship, egocentric speech, inner speech, linguistics, Vygotsky -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: VdV & Zav (2018). The final chapter.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 191397 bytes Desc: VdV & Zav (2018). The final chapter.pdf Url : http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20180327/ab383467/attachment.pdf From mcole@ucsd.edu Tue Mar 27 08:05:42 2018 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2018 15:05:42 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The final chapter of Vygotsky's Thinking and Speech: A reader's guide In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Peter For discussion? Mike On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 3:17 AM Peter Smagorinsky wrote: > The final chapter of Vygotsky's > Thinking and Speech: A reader's guide > Ren? van der Veer1,2 Ekaterina Zavershneva3 > 1Department of Education, Leiden University, > Leiden, 2311, The Netherlands > 2School of Psychology, University of Magallanes, > Punta Arenas, 01855, Chile > 3Department of Psychology, Moscow University > of Medicine and Dentistry,Moscow, 127473, > Russia > Correspondence > Ren? van derVeer,Department of Education, > Leiden University, 2311 Leiden, The Netherlands. > Email:VEER@FSW.leidenuniv.nl > Abstract > The seventh and last chapter of Vygotsky's Thinking and Speech > (1934) is generally considered as his final word in psychology. It > is a long chapter with a complex argumentative structure in which > Vygotsky gives his view on the relationship between thinking and > speech. Vygotsky's biographers have stated that the chapter was > dictated in the final months of Vygotsky's life when his health was > rapidly deteriorating. Although the chapter is famous, its structure > has never been analyzed in any detail. In the present article we reveal > its rhetorical structure and show how Vygotsky drew on many hitherto > unrevealed sources to convince the reader of his viewpoint. > KEYWORDS > authorship, egocentric speech, inner speech, linguistics, Vygotsky > > > > From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Tue Mar 27 08:16:40 2018 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2018 15:16:40 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The final chapter of Vygotsky's Thinking and Speech: A reader's guide In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: <1522163781613.29684@iped.uio.no> I would be very glad if people take it up for discussion, Mike. Alfredo Jornet ________________________________ New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and intransitive dimensions" Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of mike cole Sent: 27 March 2018 17:05 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The final chapter of Vygotsky's Thinking and Speech: A reader's guide Thanks Peter For discussion? Mike On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 3:17 AM Peter Smagorinsky wrote: > The final chapter of Vygotsky's > Thinking and Speech: A reader's guide > Ren? van der Veer1,2 Ekaterina Zavershneva3 > 1Department of Education, Leiden University, > Leiden, 2311, The Netherlands > 2School of Psychology, University of Magallanes, > Punta Arenas, 01855, Chile > 3Department of Psychology, Moscow University > of Medicine and Dentistry,Moscow, 127473, > Russia > Correspondence > Ren? van derVeer,Department of Education, > Leiden University, 2311 Leiden, The Netherlands. > Email:VEER@FSW.leidenuniv.nl > Abstract > The seventh and last chapter of Vygotsky's Thinking and Speech > (1934) is generally considered as his final word in psychology. It > is a long chapter with a complex argumentative structure in which > Vygotsky gives his view on the relationship between thinking and > speech. Vygotsky's biographers have stated that the chapter was > dictated in the final months of Vygotsky's life when his health was > rapidly deteriorating. Although the chapter is famous, its structure > has never been analyzed in any detail. In the present article we reveal > its rhetorical structure and show how Vygotsky drew on many hitherto > unrevealed sources to convince the reader of his viewpoint. > KEYWORDS > authorship, egocentric speech, inner speech, linguistics, Vygotsky > > > > From dkellogg60@gmail.com Tue Mar 27 14:11:22 2018 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2018 06:11:22 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The final chapter of Vygotsky's Thinking and Speech: A reader's guide In-Reply-To: <1522163781613.29684@iped.uio.no> References: <1522163781613.29684@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: I have a lot of questions about it, Alfredo. a) The authors speculate that Vygotsky was preparing this as a quick and dirty PhD. But we have a letter from Kornilov (in the Puzyrei collection) which clearly says that "Psychology of Art" was the thesis accepted as LSV's qualification and that it was accepted without a public defense because Vygotsky was in hospital). So somehow Vygotsky's previous qualification was rejected? How could that have happened? b) Vygotsky had a lot of other actual publications (Educational Psychology, Foundations of Pedology, Pedology of the Adolescent in two volumes, etc.). These were already finished and out. Why didn't he submit those? c) In many ways, what we see in Chapter Seven is more like a manuscript that needs cutting. Compare, for example, the conclusion of Tool and Sign ("Word and Thought") which is in many ways similar (and cites many of the same sources, like Grunbaum). Why isn't this reflected in the discussion of the composition? d) The precise function of Chapter Seven is clearly mentioned in the author's preface and the introduction, and subsequent work--not to be done by the author--is also mentioned in the final paragraphs. (Zavarshneva herself has speculated that this was the prolegomena of a much longer work on consciousness....) e) Yes, Chapter Seven has a lot of quotations without quotation marks, and a lot of these are "near quotations" and not word for word. In some cases (e.g. Paulhan) he gets the quotations quite wrong (Vygotsky misquotes Thorndike in the pedology a lot). Very few people, for example, will recognize that when Vygotsky speaks of unpacking mysteries of which not even sages can dream, he is quoting "There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy" from Hamlet. But this is true not just of Vygotsky but of many writers of his time (e.g. Bakhtin, Voloshinov, and others). I think the real question is WHY these quotations HERE, and this isn't really answered in the article. But... a) I think the idea that Vygotsky was being decertified and was about to be fired is pure speculation. If true, it was the least of his worries. More, Thinking and Speech would not have saved him (Kolbanovsky's preface is pretty critical!). Chapter Seven would have made things worse for him in almost every way.I think that Vygotsky's other publications were much better candidates for Kandidat status, if that really was necessary (and I don't think it was). b) Vygotsky mentions finishing up a work on thinking and speech in 1932. So to some extent the composition wasn't so much hurried as belated. c) Vygotsky always had a lot of irons in the fire. He also got a lot of rejections. So works tended to get reworked a lot, put aside under the pressure of other work, etc. Thinking and Speech is a masterpiece, but it's not an exception when we set it alongside his other works in progress. d) Vygotsky at some point must have met Volosinov (probably when he was teaching at the Herzen Institute in Leningrad). Zavershneva herself notes that Vygotsky referenced Voloshinov in his notes. That is the source of the Jakubinsky refs. When was the last time you said "I'll just fill in these refs later..." e) Vygotsky had about one month between his throat haemmorhage on or about May 3rd and this death on June 11th. Doesn't this suggest deathbed dictation, or at most an unfinished manuscript? It's not really the moment for a smart career move, is it? The structure of the book that Vygotsky had in mind--as a whole--is pretty clearly laid out in the author's preface: Intro (1), Critical Studies (Chapters 2-3), Theoretical Background (4), Experimental Studies (5-6), Conclusion (7). If we view it "synoptically" (as Mescheryakov suggests in his work on the terminology), it was a matter of establishing the separate planes of external speech, inner speech, thinking, affective-volitional impulse. These are laid more or less in that logical order in the book, because that is the worder in which Vygotsky saw them developing in the child (exernal before internal, innner speech before thinking, and thinking before free will), and that is the order they are put together in in Chapter Seven too. The material that Vygotsky quotes, however, is largely literature, describing thought in action, and here the elements are in the reverse order, because when we describe a verbal act we think of the motivation as background and lay out the thought against that, and the words against that. Vygotsky needs to explain all this, but he simply doesn't have time. That's our job, I guess. David Kellogg Sangmyung University Recent Article in *Early Years* The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and the child?s first interrogatives Free e-print available at: https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 12:16 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > I would be very glad if people take it up for discussion, Mike. > > Alfredo Jornet > ________________________________ > New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and > intransitive dimensions" > Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > > ________________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of mike cole > Sent: 27 March 2018 17:05 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The final chapter of Vygotsky's Thinking and Speech: > A reader's guide > > Thanks Peter > > For discussion? > > Mike > > On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 3:17 AM Peter Smagorinsky wrote: > > > The final chapter of Vygotsky's > > Thinking and Speech: A reader's guide > > Ren? van der Veer1,2 Ekaterina Zavershneva3 > > 1Department of Education, Leiden University, > > Leiden, 2311, The Netherlands > > 2School of Psychology, University of Magallanes, > > Punta Arenas, 01855, Chile > > 3Department of Psychology, Moscow University > > of Medicine and Dentistry,Moscow, 127473, > > Russia > > Correspondence > > Ren? van derVeer,Department of Education, > > Leiden University, 2311 Leiden, The Netherlands. > > Email:VEER@FSW.leidenuniv.nl > > Abstract > > The seventh and last chapter of Vygotsky's Thinking and Speech > > (1934) is generally considered as his final word in psychology. It > > is a long chapter with a complex argumentative structure in which > > Vygotsky gives his view on the relationship between thinking and > > speech. Vygotsky's biographers have stated that the chapter was > > dictated in the final months of Vygotsky's life when his health was > > rapidly deteriorating. Although the chapter is famous, its structure > > has never been analyzed in any detail. In the present article we reveal > > its rhetorical structure and show how Vygotsky drew on many hitherto > > unrevealed sources to convince the reader of his viewpoint. > > KEYWORDS > > authorship, egocentric speech, inner speech, linguistics, Vygotsky > > > > > > > > > From dkellogg60@gmail.com Tue Mar 27 14:22:15 2018 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2018 06:22:15 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Peter--I read Marvin Harris's book a few years ago, and it struck me at the time as a work of vulgar materialist thinking, rather like Maxine Rodinson's contention that pork was eliminated from Muslim diet in order to necessitate military expansionism. The problem is that there are many nomadic societies that are not at all kosher and of course many non-nomadic societies which keep kosher. Vygotsky himself says: an enormous amount of human culture (e.g. adolescence in almost every culture you can think of) is simply not "expedient"; it's exorbitant and exuberant. Vulgar materialism works by overgeneralizing phylogenesis. But ontogenesis not only doesn't recapitulate phylogenesis: it sometimes seems to reverse it (e.g. sexual reproduction, for example, emerges at the end of ontogenesis and consciousness at the beginning, while in phylogenesis things are more or less the other way around). There are analogies to be made, of course, particularly when we look at the processes "synoptically" (as Mike would say): adolescence "reminds" us of the Renaissance and the invention of love by Ariosto. The structure of a leaf may remind us of twigs and of branches and of trunks and even of roots. But somewhere along the line the branching is reversed, and the all important webbing between branches is lost to the leaf's different function. So I think that van der Veer and Zavarshneva are MISSING an important point about Chapter Seven. The planes of external speech, inner speech, thinking, and volition are differentiated in that order in ontogenesis but not in phylogenesis (where they have separate roots). Then, logogenetically, that is, in real time, they are deployed in the reverse order. That's why Chapter Seven has the structure it does: just as the phasic and the semantic are in some ways opposites that have to be mapped onto each other in syntax, ontogenesis and logogenesis are opposites that have to mapped onto each other in Chapter Seven. David Kellogg Sangmyung University Recent Article in *Early Years* The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and the child?s first interrogatives Free e-print available at: https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 10:52 PM, Peter Feigenbaum [Staff] < pfeigenbaum@fordham.edu> wrote: > Regarding my earlier comment about the historical transition from > collective > activity that is unconscious and inadvertent to that which is conscious > and deliberate, I would like to add a subsequent reflection that will > (hopefully) complicate that rather overly simplistic description. > > In his amusing and informative book Cows, Pigs, War, and Witchs: The > Riddles of Culture, ( > https://www.amazon.com/Cows-Pigs-Wars-Witches-Riddles/dp/0679724680 ), > Marvin Harris presents an altenative veiw on cultural taboos. He looks > beneath the commonly held explanations for maintaining certain cultural > practices, such as the Hindu taboo against killing cows, the Jewish taboo > against eating pork, etc., and shows that those cultural stories are not > true explanations at all, but rationalizations. Using a materialist > analysis, he makes a persuasive case that the causes of these practices are > economic at their root. For example, if Hindus began to kill and eat cows, > their economy would crumble because the cow and its byproducts are > essential to daily living. In the case of Jews not eating pork, he argues > that to invest in raising (and eating) pigs, Jews would have to sacrifice > their nomadic life. > > What Harris reveals is a sort of semi-conscious thought process in which > culture develops fables to explain already existing practices - practices > that have their root in cultural survival, but which have been accounted > for by mythology rather than science. > > So my earlier representation of an unconscious-to-conscious development in > collective practice is strictly speaking not true, and it could be improved > by including an intermediate stage of semi-conscious practice in which the > reasons for a particular cultural practice are presented not as a > deliberate plan for future action, but as a rationalization of past action. > I would argue that a rationalization such as *Jews don't eat pork because > of the health hazards of eating uncooked meat* is not really a form of > deliberation, but instead a form of mental reflection. > > I tend to pose issues in rather stark, black-and-white form in order to > highlight the essential dialectical dynamics, but I recognize that that > isn't always the most helpful approach. Sorry if I posed the issue in such > either-or terms. > > Peter > > > > On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 5:36 PM, David Kellogg > wrote: > > > Sorry about that. I got off into a rant which I found half-baked. Here it > > is. > > > > Here in Korea the curriculum is being reformed (for the eighth time since > > 1949). The new government of Mun Jae-in has a progressive bent, and the > > curricular reforms were brought in during the mass movement which removed > > Bak Gunhye from power (and sent her predecessor, Yi Myeongbak, to prison > > for environmental crimes yesterday). And the new curriculum, based > loosely > > on constructivist, Deweyan ideas but also on the ideas of "hongik ingan" > > (human interests broadly conceived), has four goals: > > > > a) People who can live with others (this is also the name of the ruling > > party, the "People-Living-With-Others Democrats") > > b) People who are cultivated and encultured > > c) People who are creative and intelligent > > d) Peole who are self-regulating and autonomous > > > > Now, one way to look at this--and this is, alas, the current > > interpretation, is that we are talking about four different kinds of > > people, or four separate instances of "multiple intelligence", like > > four superheroes locked in the child Clark Kent. > > > > That is not Vygotsky's way. Vygotsky's way would be to see this as a kind > > of pyramid, where a), which is an instinct the child has at birth and > which > > probably IS genetic, is the foundation for b), which is a set of habits > > ("conditional responses") which the child grows into. This is the basis > for > > c), which iinvolves adaptation to the social environment, but doing so > in a > > way that, unlike habits, can cope with unprecedented problems. And all of > > this forms the pre-requisite for d), the exercise of free will. > > > > I think this is the real solution to the problem that Peter (Feigenbaum) > > raises: determining the role that consciousness plays in the rise of > higher > > forms of behavior. Yes, instincts like a) arise completely without > > consciousness. But in every other case, there is a conscious and > deliberate > > decision, even if it is made for reasons other than the ultimate function > > that the higher form of behavior must serve in human progress (e.g. > > political economy, and also speech). This conscious, and deliberate, > > decision is always the result of the process Andy has laboriously > > documented, collective decision making. That is how cultures are created, > > and it is also--pace German Romanticism--how all artistic creativity and > > scientific innovation comes about: it is a concerto in which the solo > part > > is played an afterthought and a reflection upon the work of the full > > orchestra. Even the creation of free will is a collective achievement. > > > > You can see why I cut all that stuff, David. Not even my students are > > interested in it, and they have to pass a test on the curricular reform > > (but not on my imaginary Vygotskyan interpretation of it) which will > > determine whether their whole education has been in vain and the rest of > > their life will be a struggle, or whether they will be one of the three > > people in our department of fifty who will be licensed to teach in > > secondary schools. So instead I was going to try to develop a distinction > > between phonetics, which is very much the product of our hereditary > > endowment, and which will leave archaeological evidence that can be > > recovered (as Peter notes in his note on Lieberman's work) and phonology, > > which won't. Since most people don't understand the difference between > > phonetics and phonology, I tried to present it as a difference between > > musical instruments (which do leave an archaeological record) and the > music > > we play on them (which leave no record at all until the advent of > literacy > > and musical notation). That's why the earliest known melody is this one: > > > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www. > > youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3DW113BDpFLBI&d=DwIFaQ&c= > > aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r= > > mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=OeK-Twt896_fP5YkryhcWnz-H- > > wWia5gs8qcbuYtq8k&s=2nGuHIarbUI1Ee26Y8nBFqKGa7wTuBq3HpFbB7tEMFw&e= > > > > > > > > David Kellogg > > Sangmyung University > > > > Recent Article in *Early Years* > > > > The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and the > > child?s first interrogatives > > > 3A__www.tandfonline.com_doi_full_10.1080_09575146.2018. > 1431874&d=DwIFaQ&c= > > aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r= > > mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=OeK-Twt896_fP5YkryhcWnz-H- > > wWia5gs8qcbuYtq8k&s=Udr3r_HajCs9a6OvjoIomHneskyjktyKraz0NGjQQx0&e=> > > > > Free e-print available at: > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www. > > tandfonline.com_eprint_6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW_full&d=DwIFaQ&c= > > aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r= > > mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=OeK-Twt896_fP5YkryhcWnz-H- > > wWia5gs8qcbuYtq8k&s=MMkIpd8aAspXD8TZt3uXpU5yY-v9kX3b4LFbqQ48uCQ&e= > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 4:59 PM, WEBSTER, DAVID S. < > > d.s.webster@durham.ac.uk > > > wrote: > > > > > Bound to agree with you re Gans and anti-Zionism/ antisemitism. > Whatever > > > the strengths of his anthropology, firstness and resentment cannot > cope > > > alone (if at all) with explaining contemporary socio-political > situations > > > least of all those in the Old Testament lands. His dogmatism here has > > > pushed him to the right and that is to be regretted. Not sure I > > understand > > > your musical example... > > > > > > David > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg > > > Sent: 21 March 2018 21:27 > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > > > > > > One reason for Jews like me to be sceptical of Gans is his apparent > > > Zionism (i.e. his insistence that there is a Jewish archaeological > claim > > to > > > the land of Israel, and is conflation of anti-Zionism and anti-semitism > > in > > > the "Love and Resentment" blog). > > > > > > I am teaching phonetics and phonology this term, and one of the first > > > things we learn is the difference between the highly musical instrument > > > that we share with all of our conspecifics and the peculiar way in > which > > we > > > compose music for it (including the chords of notes, the intonational > > > melodies, and the stress rhythms) which we share only with our speech > > > community. The late, great Dmitri Hvorostovsky was charged with hubris > > for > > > referring to his own mellow baritone as "the perfect instrument", but > > what > > > he really meant was that we humans have evolved our music tastes > around a > > > universal, ideal, non-existent human voice (like Daniel Jones' cardinal > > > vowels, which are not the vowels of any known language). > > > > > > But I am also sceptical of Andy's desire for archaeological evidence of > > > language development--I agree with Gans that the question of the > origins > > of > > > language is solveable by other, more indirect means (e.g. studying > child > > > language and looking at how mitochondrial DNA changes correlate with > > > language dispersion). But for that very reason I think the "Jewish" > claim > > > to Palestine is about as strong as the European claim to the Rift > Valley > > in > > > Kenya. > > > > > > > > > David Kellogg > > > Sangmyung University > > > > > > Recent Article in *Early Years* > > > > > > The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and > the > > > child?s first interrogatives > proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.tandfonline.com_&d=DwIFaQ&c= > > aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r= > > mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=OeK-Twt896_fP5YkryhcWnz-H- > > wWia5gs8qcbuYtq8k&s=MChqG8cy6pl-MaI-gseNXI1Btz67jgQ7MAtQyjmO6iY&e= > > > doi/full/10.1080/09575146.2018.1431874> > > > > > > Free e-print available at: > > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www. > > tandfonline.com_eprint_6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW_full&d=DwIFaQ&c= > > aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r= > > mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=OeK-Twt896_fP5YkryhcWnz-H- > > wWia5gs8qcbuYtq8k&s=MMkIpd8aAspXD8TZt3uXpU5yY-v9kX3b4LFbqQ48uCQ&e= > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 11:35 PM, WEBSTER, DAVID S. < > > > d.s.webster@durham.ac.uk> wrote: > > > > > > > Andy, dear heart; busy will be tomorrow, hand excavating a Neolithic > > > > ditch with mattock and trowel - there might even be some flints to > > find! > > > > Academic writing is pure relaxation.. > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > David > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > > > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden > > > > Sent: 21 March 2018 13:26 > > > > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > > > > > > > > In short David, because I am writing. If something caught my > > > > imagination I would make time for it. At the moment, like everyone > > > > else I suspect, I am busy. But I am still up for hard news of a > > > palaeontological kind. > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > Andy Blunden > > > > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > > > > On 22/03/2018 12:15 AM, WEBSTER, DAVID S. wrote: > > > > > Why read Wikipedia when you can just as easily read Gans? > Sceptical, > > > > fine, why? > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > > [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden > > > > > Sent: 21 March 2018 12:49 > > > > > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > > > > > > > > > > Wikpedia gives a fair picture of Gans's ideas, David. I'm > sceptical. > > > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > Andy Blunden > > > > > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > > > > > On 21/03/2018 8:24 PM, WEBSTER, DAVID S. wrote: > > > > >> As it happens there Gans offers a blog associated with the > > > > >> journal 'Chronicles of Love & Resentment' but his story start > with > > > > >> his first book 'The origins of language'. Unfortunately, > > > > >> palaeontological evidence philosophical speculation and > semiotics > > > > >> are blended throughout if with shifting focus. Not much directly > on > > > > >> tool use if memory serves but that tends to follow on in one way > or > > > > >> another from the rest. There was no expectation that anyone would > > > > >> need to digest the whole of the archive but it takes little effort > > > > >> to dip in and see what may catch your interest or ire and start > > > > >> from there. You might start your Gansian journey with 'The little > > > > >> big bang' (i.e. event of > > > > >> language) https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__ > > anthropoetics.ucla.edu_ap0501_gans-2D2_&d=DwIFaQ&c= > > aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r= > > mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=OeK-Twt896_fP5YkryhcWnz-H- > > wWia5gs8qcbuYtq8k&s=JKYoocLdmKVqJ8YNqGzkk__J6HMxWFY0RMtx7KbuHa4&e= > > > > >> > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > >> [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy > Blunden > > > > >> Sent: 21 March 2018 08:35 > > > > >> To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > > > > >> > > > > >> Sorry David. You directed us to the home page of a journal. > > > > >> I am chuffed that you have actually read some of my work, but I > > > > >> think > > > > in general people on xmca don't usually go further than reading an > > > > article of a few thousand words if it is relevant to a discussion. A > > > > whole journal archive? > > > > >> > > > > >> But if you can direct me to the article which correlates > > > > palaeontological evidence and speech and tool origins (not > > > > philosophical > > > > speculation) I will be all over it. (I love philosophical > speculation, > > > > but not on this question just now). > > > > >> > > > > >> Andy > > > > >> > > > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > >> Andy Blunden > > > > >> ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > > > > >> On 21/03/2018 7:10 PM, WEBSTER, DAVID S. wrote: > > > > >>> Please forgive my impatience but I have already directed you all > > > > >>> to a > > > > site where all the points you (collectively) have so far made, and > > > > all the one that you are ever likely to make on this subject, have > > > > been raised and comprehensively worked over by Gans and those many > > > > scholars who have engaged with him. The nub is the progressive > > > > transformation from analogue to digital required for information > > > > transfer between different systems operating at differing time > scales. > > > > What Gans described in his 'originary hypothesis' is the same > > > > transformational operation that was used to teach deaf and alingual > > > > children at Zagorsk that involves taking the actions of appropriation > > > > (actions for life skills) and paring them down to a digital code - > > > > dactylic signing. For Andy: the Urpraxis, solidarity in your telling, > > > > arises at the originary scene of language (in Gans's telling) through > > > the formation of a in-group out-group relation. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Rant Over > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Ps its not that I agree with all Gans argues, But he does attempt > > > > >>> to > > > > cover all bases where origin of language /human culture is concerned > > > > and in a non-sectarian/non-egotistical fashion and I therefor worth > > > engaging with. > > > > No need to reinvent the wheel here. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> -----Original Message----- > > > > >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > >>> [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy > Blunden > > > > >>> Sent: 21 March 2018 05:39 > > > > >>> To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Cultural historical > > > > >>> > > > > >>> I think that the thesis that *mime* (to generalise beyond > > > > >>> signing) is a plausible precursor to spoken language, and there > is > > > > >>> are > > > > substantial anthropological arguments to support that thesis. It > seems > > > > to me that stone tools are precursors of tools more generally, and > > > > mime may be a precursor to spoken language, while the anatomical > > > > prerequisites to speech are evolving. How did speech become such a > > > > necessity that it drove anatomical change, and when/why did > > > > tool=making "take off" after stagnating for millennia? > > > > >>> > > > > >>> But I'm only guessing, as are you David! > > > > >>> > > > > >>> This is not a palaeontologists' list, so I guess I was > > > > >>> over-optimistic > > > > to think I'd get a decisive answer to this. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Andy > > > > >>> > > > > >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > >>> Andy Blunden > > > > >>> ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > > > > >>> On 21/03/2018 4:24 PM, David Kellogg wrote: > > > > >>>> I meant deaf people. There's a strong argument being made by > deaf > > > > >>>> linguists--which I agree with--that holds that spoken languages > > > > >>>> are an offshoot of sign rather than the other way around. This > > > > >>>> sheds some light on Andy's problem: people developed spoken > > > > >>>> languages when they found they had other things to do with their > > > > >>>> hands, like > > > > hold tools. > > > > >>>> But I also think that pre-linguistic children are an important > > > > >>>> minority that prefers the visual channel, at least for taking in > > > > >>>> information, just as we adults who get most of our information > > > > through reading do. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> There are some scripts that are more visual and others that are > > > > >>>> more auditory--and within the same script we find elements that > > > > >>>> are more visual (Chinese radicals) and others that are more > > > > >>>> auditory (the phonetic components of Chinese characters). Even > in > > > > >>>> English there are some elements that are visually salient but > not > > > > >>>> auditorily salient (e.g. punctuation, variations in handwriting > > > > >>>> styles, fonts, > > > > >>>> etc.) and other elements that are more auditory (the > > > > >>>> International Phonetic Alphabet which is really English based > and > > > > >>>> which has sought, for over a century, a perfect match between > > > > >>>> phonemes and graphemes). Phonics is based on the idea that > > > > >>>> English has evolved towards a one phoneme-one grapheme match; in > > > > >>>> fact, it has evolved > > > > away from it. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> David Kellogg > > > > >>>> Sangmyung University > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Recent Article in *Early Years* > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, > > > > >>>> and the child?s first interrogatives > > > > >>>> > 3A__www.tandfonline.com_doi_full_10.1080_09575146.2018.14318&d=DwIFaQ&c= > > aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r= > > mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=OeK-Twt896_fP5YkryhcWnz-H- > > wWia5gs8qcbuYtq8k&s=WWYjBDYFFZ3L5Hv1hueVvJtqQD5bZ3EyVE7-kau0QJI&e= > > > > >>>> 74 > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Free e-print available at: > > > > >>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www. > > tandfonline.com_eprint_6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW_full&d=DwIFaQ&c= > > aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r= > > mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=OeK-Twt896_fP5YkryhcWnz-H- > > wWia5gs8qcbuYtq8k&s=MMkIpd8aAspXD8TZt3uXpU5yY-v9kX3b4LFbqQ48uCQ&e= > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 1:11 PM, Helena Worthen > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> wrote: > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>>> David, what is the important minority that you?re referring to: > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> "... the lowering of the vocal tract was phenomenal to > language; > > > > >>>>> it was only an epiphenomenal circumstance which made the > > > > >>>>> majority of humans choose the vocal channel for language while > > > > >>>>> an important minority choose the visual channel? ? ? > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> And how can we see what can be seen in the visual channel? > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Helena Worthen > > > > >>>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com > > > > >>>>> Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 > > > > >>>>> Blog US/ Viet Nam: > > > > >>>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > > > >>>>> skype: helena.worthen1 > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> On Mar 21, 2018, at 8:37 AM, David Kellogg > > > > >>>>>> > > > > wrote: > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Andy has a knack for winkling brilliant insights out of early > > > > Vygotsky: > > > > >>>>> he > > > > >>>>>> remarks somewhere that "Ape, Primitive, Child: Studies in the > > > > >>>>>> History of Behavior," a book which I really didn't care much > > > > >>>>>> for, taught him that whenever we decide on some essential > > > > >>>>>> distinction between human and non-human behavior, we > > > > >>>>>> necessarily find rudiments of it in non-human behavior. To > > > > >>>>>> which I would only add that the circumstance that the > rudiments > > > > >>>>>> of human behavior are linked to non-human behavior doesn't > > > > >>>>> make > > > > >>>>>> them indistinguishable. On the contrary, it is really only > > > > >>>>>> because human behaviors are distinct that we can speak of them > > > > >>>>>> being linked (we don't talk of air-breathing in humans as > being > > > > >>>>>> linked to air-breathing in apes, because the process is really > > > > >>>>>> one and the same; we do speak of language > > > > >>>>> in > > > > >>>>>> humans as being linked to ape vocalizations precisely because > > > > >>>>>> they are distinct processes). If this is true of > > > > >>>>>> anthropogenetic phenomena like > > > > >>>>> free > > > > >>>>>> will, language and literacy, it's also true of their > > > > >>>>>> symptomatic epiphenomena, such as migration, culture, and > > > > >>>>>> literature. I don't agree with Andy that the lowering of the > > > > >>>>>> vocal tract was phenomenal to > > > > >>>>> language; > > > > >>>>>> it was only an epiphenomenal circumstance which made the > > > > >>>>>> majority of > > > > >>>>> humans > > > > >>>>>> choose the vocal channel for language while an important > > > > >>>>>> minority choose the visual channel, to which the majority > again > > > > >>>>>> reverted once alphabets > > > > >>>>> and > > > > >>>>>> literacy were invented (again, an exercise of some rudimentary > > > > >>>>>> form of > > > > >>>>> free > > > > >>>>>> will). > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Compare migration along a seacoast with migration into a > > > > >>>>>> mountainous region. One requires no major change in productive > > > > >>>>>> relations, while the other probably does. Similar with > > > > >>>>>> migration along an East-West axis. This requires relatively > > > > >>>>>> little free will, as the climate does not change and many of > > > > >>>>>> the plants and > > > > animals which provide food are probably the same. > > > > >>>>> In > > > > >>>>>> contrast, migration along a North-South axis, which involves > > > > >>>>>> climate > > > > >>>>> change > > > > >>>>>> and corresponding adaptations, would require relatively more > > > > >>>>>> communal discussion, the process Andy calls collaborative > > > > >>>>>> decision making. I think that wandering out of Africa > involved, > > > > >>>>>> on the one hand, migration along > > > > >>>>> the > > > > >>>>>> Nile and coastlines and, on the other, migration out of a > > > > >>>>>> mountainous region (the Rift Valley is pretty mountainous). > But > > > > >>>>>> it also involved migration along a North-South axis and not an > > > > >>>>>> East-West one. Of course, staying put in Africa probably also > > > > >>>>>> involved collaborative decision > > > > >>>>> making > > > > >>>>>> over millenia, but we don't have any record of the decision as > > > > >>>>>> we do with leaving the home continent > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> David Kellogg > > > > >>>>>> Sangmyung University > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Recent Article in *Early Years* > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s > > > > >>>>>> crises, and the child?s first interrogatives > > > > >>>>>> > 3A__www.tandfonline.com_doi_full_10.1080_09575146.2018.143&d=DwIFaQ&c= > > aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r= > > mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=OeK-Twt896_fP5YkryhcWnz-H- > > wWia5gs8qcbuYtq8k&s=jnPoUcwlAvYzStYQSwquzVpBwNE9RCI9i_RTeViZBiU&e= > > > > >>>>>> 18 > > > > >>>>>> 7 > > > > >>>>>> 4 > > > > >>>>>> Free e-print available at: > > > > >>>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www. > > tandfonline.com_eprint_6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW_full&d=DwIFaQ&c= > > aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r= > > mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=OeK-Twt896_fP5YkryhcWnz-H- > > wWia5gs8qcbuYtq8k&s=MMkIpd8aAspXD8TZt3uXpU5yY-v9kX3b4LFbqQ48uCQ&e= > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 9:07 AM, Martin Packer > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>> wrote: > > > > >>>>>>> David, they wouldn't have known they were leaving their home > > > > >>>>>>> continent, would they? Some of them were just lucky enough to > > > > >>>>>>> wander in the > > > > >>>>> direction > > > > >>>>>>> of a land bridge, instead of into the ocean. Like any species > > > > >>>>>>> that > > > > >>>>> spreads > > > > >>>>>>> into a new geographical location, no conscious decision > > required. > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> Martin, who wandered into South America > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> On Mar 19, 2018, at 7:50 AM, David Kellogg > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>> wrote: > > > > >>>>>>>> Somewhere in the discussion of Monica and Fernando's > article, > > > > >>>>>>>> Fernando > > > > >>>>>>> made > > > > >>>>>>>> the remark that history does not know "ifs". Similarly, > > > > >>>>>>>> Monica implied > > > > >>>>> at > > > > >>>>>>>> one point that large technological changes must be taken as > > > > >>>>>>>> given; they > > > > >>>>>>> are > > > > >>>>>>>> not something over which humans have control. But even if we > > > > >>>>>>>> accept the "Out of Africa" story which this article > > > > >>>>>>>> undermines, we are left > > > > >>>>> with > > > > >>>>>>>> the apparently conscious decision of early hominids to leave > > > > >>>>>>>> the home continent, something none of the other great apes > > > > >>>>>>>> ever > > > > determined upon. > > > > >>>>>>>> Vygotsky remarked that rudiments of all four forms of higher > > > > >>>>>>>> behavior--instinct, enculturation, creativity, and free will > > > > >>>>>>>> that is > > > > >>>>> none > > > > >>>>>>>> of these--appear even in infancy. So it appears that free > > > > >>>>>>>> will was > > > > >>>>> always > > > > >>>>>>>> part of anthropogenesis, and consequently that > > > > >>>>>>>> history--including > > > > >>>>> present > > > > >>>>>>>> history--knows nothing but ifs. We just don't see the others > > > > >>>>>>>> because we > > > > >>>>>>> are > > > > >>>>>>>> sitting in one of them. > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> David Kellogg > > > > >>>>>>>> Sangmyung University > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> Recent Article in *Early Years* > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s > > > > >>>>>>>> crises, and > > > > >>>>> the > > > > >>>>>>>> child?s first interrogatives > > > > >>>>>>>> > 3A__www.tandfonline.com_doi_full_10.1080_09575146.2018.1&d=DwIFaQ&c= > > aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r= > > mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=OeK-Twt896_fP5YkryhcWnz-H- > > wWia5gs8qcbuYtq8k&s=xZk7pwX7o2SL9vAsgmcvpbhq9ZGjmQUpF0Eu9r-pPvQ&e= > > > > >>>>>>>> 43 > > > > >>>>>>>> 1 > > > > >>>>>>>> 8 > > > > >>>>>>>> 7 > > > > >>>>>>>> 4> > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> Free e-print available at: > > > > >>>>>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www. > > tandfonline.com_eprint_6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW_full&d=DwIFaQ&c= > > aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r= > > mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=OeK-Twt896_fP5YkryhcWnz-H- > > wWia5gs8qcbuYtq8k&s=MMkIpd8aAspXD8TZt3uXpU5yY-v9kX3b4LFbqQ48uCQ&e= > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 7:33 AM, mike cole > > > > wrote: > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> This synoptic story of the current state of research on > > > > >>>>>>>>> human origins > > > > >>>>>>> seems > > > > >>>>>>>>> relevant to the cultural-historical folks around. > > > > >>>>>>>>> mike > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www. > > sapiens.org_evolution_human-2Devolution-2D&d=DwIFaQ&c= > > aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r= > > mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=OeK-Twt896_fP5YkryhcWnz-H- > > wWia5gs8qcbuYtq8k&s=u2Ejj7gSxnmViAIW36-loGmxDNSW2k1Ie8NgJqHBAGE&e= > > > > >>>>>>>>> australia-asia/?utm_source=SAPIENS.org+Subscribers&utm_ > > > > >>>>>>>>> campaign=1b31c25316-Email+Blast+12.22.2017&utm_medium= > > > > >>>>>>>>> email&utm_term=0_18b7e41cd8-1b31c25316-199570669 > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Peter Feigenbaum, Ph.D. > Director, > Office of Institutional Research > > Fordham University > Thebaud Hall-202 > Bronx, NY 10458 > > Phone: (718) 817-2243 > Fax: (718) 817-3817 > email: pfeigenbaum@fordham.edu > From wagner.schmit@gmail.com Wed Mar 28 10:28:57 2018 From: wagner.schmit@gmail.com (Wagner Luiz Schmit) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2018 14:28:57 -0300 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In-Reply-To: References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> <1518914964416.39650@iped.uio.no> <2996E8BF-CB5B-4C69-99F6-B09F5C0B701B@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello, Another news article came out in the same topic. https://www.theguardian.com/higher-education-network/2018/mar/23/they-called-my-university-a-phd-factory-now-i-understand-why?CMP=fb_gu In Brazil the first part of the equation does not follow much. Master degree and PhD courses are free in public universities. This seems nice, but a PhD is like a job, and without a (meager) scholarship you need a job to pay for the bills. But we are still "cheap labor" for both public and private universities. And also the "new" government (the government after the parlamentary coup) is just smashing brazilian academia to pieces (in the part of the process to make Brazil submissive to the US and Corporations, but this is off-topic). And there is the hazard itself that is our PhD process https://www.sciencemag.org/careers/2017/04/phd-students-face-significant-mental-health-challenges We need to change this... But I do not see how... Because at the end of the day, I still need to pay my bills... Wagner On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 4:31 PM, Greg Thompson wrote: > With regard to Mike's question about (I'm paraphrasing) What is to be > done?, I'll confess to being too caught up (i.e., "invested" (often > literally) and thus "implicated) in things-as-they-currently are to be able > to be properly critical. But I will say that even within the limited scope > of action dictated by these implications, there may still be room for > meaningful action. (or so I'd like to think). > > As one small example, I am rather fond of Martin Packer's book Science of > Qualitative Research. In it, he sets out an agenda for qualitative research > as "emancipatory." This isn't to say that all qualitative research IS this, > but rather that this is what qualitative research CAN be. > > Below are some quotes that help to give some sense of the argument (these > are taken from the introductory chapter to the book). Better to quote here > than to paraphrase (quotes are below). > > I find this vision to be inspiring and challenging. Inspiring because of > the possibilities that it promises. Challenging because, as Packer notes > later in the book in the chapter on the crisis in ethnography, it forces me > (qua researcher) to recognize how my interests can be at cross purposes > with those of my informants simply because my life/work is situated > differently from theirs. > > QUOTES FROM PACKER'S INTRO CHAPTER: > > "Attention to human forms of life, to the subtle details of people?s talk > and actions, to human bodies in material surroundings, can open our eyes to > unnoticed aspects of human life and learning, unexplored characteristics of > the relationship between humans and the world we inhabit, and unsuspected > ways in which we could improve our lives on this planet." (p. 3). > > Qualitative research is: "the basis for a radical reconceptualization of > the social sciences as forms of inquiry in which we work to transform our > forms of life." (p. 3). > > "qualitative research has the potential to change our attitude of > domination because it is sensitive to human forms of life in a way that > traditional research cannot be." (p. 4). > > And here is his description of what qualitative research could be: > > "?a historical ontology of ourselves? that, [Foucault] proposed, would > involve ?a critique of what we are saying, thinking, and doing.? It would > attend to the complex interrelations of knowledge, politics, and ethics. It > would foster personal and political transformation without resorting to > violence. It would be an investigation that could create new ways of > being." and further, "it would include a historical dimension, attentive to > genesis and transformation without reducing them to the linear unfolding of > a unidimensional ?progress.? It would include an ethnographic dimension > that would be sensitive to power and resistance. It would carefully examine > practical activities ? ?discourse? ? to discover how we human beings are > made and how we make ourselves. And it would foster social change not > through violent revolt but by promoting ?a patient labor giving form to our > impatience for liberty? (Foucault, 1975/ 1977, p. 319), working to change > who we are." > > And: > > "The traditional social sciences have investigated how humans operate as > information-processing organisms and have helped design better manipulation > in the form of advertising and spin. We desperately need a program of > inquiry that can ask questions whose answers would empower us to transform > our forms of life, our moral paradigms, and our discursive practices for > the better." (p. 7). > > > And reading Martin's project within the limits that I have placed on > myself, this orientation make me look for possible ways that I can > involve/implicate this kind of project with other interests, both locally > and globally, in order to get beyond thinking of what we are doing in > academia as merely a matter of unthinking, hedonistic rational > self-interest (e.g., helping people to "make money" so that they can > maximize their personal utility). In this current context in which we live > (esp. in the U.S), it isn't easy to find these sites of possibility where > one might consider studying transformations of human possibility > (individual and collective), but I think that there are some out there... > > -greg > > > On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 10:09 AM, Helena Worthen > wrote: > > > I?m late in adding to this discussion, but I don?t think anyone else has > > responded to MIke?s question directly. What can the collective > experience > > of xmca come up with? Maybe it?s so obvious it doesn?t need saying. The > > dscussion itself is collective, along with the ISCAR conferences, the MCA > > journal, the openness of participants to share resources, review, comment > > and criticize ? sending around whole books when possible. It?s an ongoing > > colletive experience. An occasional reference to the academic labor > market > > is a healthy and welcome reality check but the discussion itself is the > > collective resoruce. > > > > > > Helena Worthen > > helenaworthen@gmail.com > > Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 > > Blog US/ Viet Nam: > > helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > skype: helena.worthen1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 17, 2018, at 5:07 PM, mike cole wrote: > > > > > > Yours is a quandary shared by your generation, Alfredo. > > > Being allowed to teach and conduct research in a quality institution > is a > > > great privilege and an > > > increasingly rarer possibility. > > > > > > There are several people on this list who have organized their lives to > > be > > > independent scholars > > > while staying connected to the core institutions of disciplinary > > training. > > > It might be nice to hear > > > the variety out there. > > > > > > It appears pretty certain that the situation is going to get worse > > > before/if it gets better. > > > > > > What can the collective experience of xmca come up with that would be > > > useful to the many > > > of you caught in this meat grinder? > > > > > > mike > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > >> Good luck then, Wagner! > > >> A > > >> ________________________________________ > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu edu> > > >> on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit > > >> Sent: 18 February 2018 01:07 > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > >> > > >> This just hit me in the spot... > > >> > > >> Wagner > > >> > > >> On Feb 17, 2018 9:48 PM, "Alfredo Jornet Gil" > > wrote: > > >> > > >>> I have not been able to contribute to this list as much as I'd like > to > > >>> lately, among other things, because I need to find a job, and I need > to > > >>> make sure that I have checked all those boxes that selection > committees > > >>> will check (enough first-authored publications? in good enough > > journals? > > >>> enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? acquiring > funds? > > >> more > > >>> than all others candidates? and more than > favoured-for-whatever-other- > > >> reasons > > >>> candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these weeks to fill up a > > >>> competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> And, although I did not think that it was particularly well written, > it > > >>> was both relieving and discouraging to read this article (see link > > below, > > >>> which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague who I think also > > >>> subscribes this list). The article makes visible the pain scholars go > > >>> through when, after so many years of digging and digging and digging > a > > >>> little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to leave it and find some > > >> other > > >>> thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer who was moving > > through > > >>> the world with his lovely family, short-term project after short-term > > >>> project, getting better and better at what he worked on (apparently > he > > >> was > > >>> among the few who had expertise in computer modeling simulating some > > >>> astronomic events) , and finally having to step out academia last > year > > to > > >>> find something else to do, for his family no longer could stand the > > >>> constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be me soon. And that > may > > >> not > > >>> be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the story seems to be > > >> quite > > >>> endemic to academia and may be interesting to some of you: > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Loses-When/242560 > > >>> > > >>> Alfredo > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Wed Mar 28 16:29:15 2018 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2018 23:29:15 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In-Reply-To: References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> <1518914964416.39650@iped.uio.no> <2996E8BF-CB5B-4C69-99F6-B09F5C0B701B@gmail.com> , Message-ID: <1522279754852.71445@iped.uio.no> Thanks for sharing, Wagner. This one captures quite well what I find most disturbing about the way we became encultured as PhDs and Postdocs: that our expertise and creativity, in the way it is fostered, may mean very little outside academia: "film-makers, actors, writers and musicians do not require institutional support to work. Publishing work online has never been easier, but to function effectively as an academic, you need the sanction of a university. You cannot be an academic outside of the academy" But that does not have to be like that, of course, and Annalisa was recently encouraging us to share how we envision the idea research institutes/education. I hope others will add to that too, Alfredo Jornet ________________________________ New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and intransitive dimensions" Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit Sent: 28 March 2018 19:28 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship Hello, Another news article came out in the same topic. https://www.theguardian.com/higher-education-network/2018/mar/23/they-called-my-university-a-phd-factory-now-i-understand-why?CMP=fb_gu In Brazil the first part of the equation does not follow much. Master degree and PhD courses are free in public universities. This seems nice, but a PhD is like a job, and without a (meager) scholarship you need a job to pay for the bills. But we are still "cheap labor" for both public and private universities. And also the "new" government (the government after the parlamentary coup) is just smashing brazilian academia to pieces (in the part of the process to make Brazil submissive to the US and Corporations, but this is off-topic). And there is the hazard itself that is our PhD process https://www.sciencemag.org/careers/2017/04/phd-students-face-significant-mental-health-challenges We need to change this... But I do not see how... Because at the end of the day, I still need to pay my bills... Wagner On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 4:31 PM, Greg Thompson wrote: > With regard to Mike's question about (I'm paraphrasing) What is to be > done?, I'll confess to being too caught up (i.e., "invested" (often > literally) and thus "implicated) in things-as-they-currently are to be able > to be properly critical. But I will say that even within the limited scope > of action dictated by these implications, there may still be room for > meaningful action. (or so I'd like to think). > > As one small example, I am rather fond of Martin Packer's book Science of > Qualitative Research. In it, he sets out an agenda for qualitative research > as "emancipatory." This isn't to say that all qualitative research IS this, > but rather that this is what qualitative research CAN be. > > Below are some quotes that help to give some sense of the argument (these > are taken from the introductory chapter to the book). Better to quote here > than to paraphrase (quotes are below). > > I find this vision to be inspiring and challenging. Inspiring because of > the possibilities that it promises. Challenging because, as Packer notes > later in the book in the chapter on the crisis in ethnography, it forces me > (qua researcher) to recognize how my interests can be at cross purposes > with those of my informants simply because my life/work is situated > differently from theirs. > > QUOTES FROM PACKER'S INTRO CHAPTER: > > "Attention to human forms of life, to the subtle details of people?s talk > and actions, to human bodies in material surroundings, can open our eyes to > unnoticed aspects of human life and learning, unexplored characteristics of > the relationship between humans and the world we inhabit, and unsuspected > ways in which we could improve our lives on this planet." (p. 3). > > Qualitative research is: "the basis for a radical reconceptualization of > the social sciences as forms of inquiry in which we work to transform our > forms of life." (p. 3). > > "qualitative research has the potential to change our attitude of > domination because it is sensitive to human forms of life in a way that > traditional research cannot be." (p. 4). > > And here is his description of what qualitative research could be: > > "?a historical ontology of ourselves? that, [Foucault] proposed, would > involve ?a critique of what we are saying, thinking, and doing.? It would > attend to the complex interrelations of knowledge, politics, and ethics. It > would foster personal and political transformation without resorting to > violence. It would be an investigation that could create new ways of > being." and further, "it would include a historical dimension, attentive to > genesis and transformation without reducing them to the linear unfolding of > a unidimensional ?progress.? It would include an ethnographic dimension > that would be sensitive to power and resistance. It would carefully examine > practical activities ? ?discourse? ? to discover how we human beings are > made and how we make ourselves. And it would foster social change not > through violent revolt but by promoting ?a patient labor giving form to our > impatience for liberty? (Foucault, 1975/ 1977, p. 319), working to change > who we are." > > And: > > "The traditional social sciences have investigated how humans operate as > information-processing organisms and have helped design better manipulation > in the form of advertising and spin. We desperately need a program of > inquiry that can ask questions whose answers would empower us to transform > our forms of life, our moral paradigms, and our discursive practices for > the better." (p. 7). > > > And reading Martin's project within the limits that I have placed on > myself, this orientation make me look for possible ways that I can > involve/implicate this kind of project with other interests, both locally > and globally, in order to get beyond thinking of what we are doing in > academia as merely a matter of unthinking, hedonistic rational > self-interest (e.g., helping people to "make money" so that they can > maximize their personal utility). In this current context in which we live > (esp. in the U.S), it isn't easy to find these sites of possibility where > one might consider studying transformations of human possibility > (individual and collective), but I think that there are some out there... > > -greg > > > On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 10:09 AM, Helena Worthen > wrote: > > > I?m late in adding to this discussion, but I don?t think anyone else has > > responded to MIke?s question directly. What can the collective > experience > > of xmca come up with? Maybe it?s so obvious it doesn?t need saying. The > > dscussion itself is collective, along with the ISCAR conferences, the MCA > > journal, the openness of participants to share resources, review, comment > > and criticize ? sending around whole books when possible. It?s an ongoing > > colletive experience. An occasional reference to the academic labor > market > > is a healthy and welcome reality check but the discussion itself is the > > collective resoruce. > > > > > > Helena Worthen > > helenaworthen@gmail.com > > Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 > > Blog US/ Viet Nam: > > helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > skype: helena.worthen1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 17, 2018, at 5:07 PM, mike cole wrote: > > > > > > Yours is a quandary shared by your generation, Alfredo. > > > Being allowed to teach and conduct research in a quality institution > is a > > > great privilege and an > > > increasingly rarer possibility. > > > > > > There are several people on this list who have organized their lives to > > be > > > independent scholars > > > while staying connected to the core institutions of disciplinary > > training. > > > It might be nice to hear > > > the variety out there. > > > > > > It appears pretty certain that the situation is going to get worse > > > before/if it gets better. > > > > > > What can the collective experience of xmca come up with that would be > > > useful to the many > > > of you caught in this meat grinder? > > > > > > mike > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > >> Good luck then, Wagner! > > >> A > > >> ________________________________________ > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu edu> > > >> on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit > > >> Sent: 18 February 2018 01:07 > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > >> > > >> This just hit me in the spot... > > >> > > >> Wagner > > >> > > >> On Feb 17, 2018 9:48 PM, "Alfredo Jornet Gil" > > wrote: > > >> > > >>> I have not been able to contribute to this list as much as I'd like > to > > >>> lately, among other things, because I need to find a job, and I need > to > > >>> make sure that I have checked all those boxes that selection > committees > > >>> will check (enough first-authored publications? in good enough > > journals? > > >>> enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? acquiring > funds? > > >> more > > >>> than all others candidates? and more than > favoured-for-whatever-other- > > >> reasons > > >>> candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these weeks to fill up a > > >>> competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> And, although I did not think that it was particularly well written, > it > > >>> was both relieving and discouraging to read this article (see link > > below, > > >>> which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague who I think also > > >>> subscribes this list). The article makes visible the pain scholars go > > >>> through when, after so many years of digging and digging and digging > a > > >>> little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to leave it and find some > > >> other > > >>> thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer who was moving > > through > > >>> the world with his lovely family, short-term project after short-term > > >>> project, getting better and better at what he worked on (apparently > he > > >> was > > >>> among the few who had expertise in computer modeling simulating some > > >>> astronomic events) , and finally having to step out academia last > year > > to > > >>> find something else to do, for his family no longer could stand the > > >>> constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be me soon. And that > may > > >> not > > >>> be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the story seems to be > > >> quite > > >>> endemic to academia and may be interesting to some of you: > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Loses-When/242560 > > >>> > > >>> Alfredo > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > From carrie.lobman@gse.rutgers.edu Fri Mar 30 07:33:48 2018 From: carrie.lobman@gse.rutgers.edu (Carrie Lobman) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2018 14:33:48 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] AERA Session: Being/Becoming an Activist Scholar: Lessons From Cultural-Historical Activity Research Message-ID: Hello XMCAers, I am very pleased to be chairing this timely and important session at AERA in a few weeks (Monday April 16). The idea for Being/Becoming an Activist-Scholar was born at last years conference in San Antonio where I felt a shift as more and more people, particularly graduate students, were identifying as activist scholars or were seeking to engage in activism. I believe as socio-cultural and activitists we have much to offer this conversation and a responsibility to lead and teach. I was thrilled that Kris Guitierrez, Lois Holzman, and Anna Stetsenko agreed to be our featured speakers as they each bring a long history of rigorous scholarship and activism but from with different frameworks, activities and communities. These three presentations will jumpstart a conversation with an invited panel of emerging and established scholar activists who will collectively interview and respond to the presentations and lead a discussion with the audience. Please get the word out as widely as possible. http://tinyurl.com/y7zguva7 Carrie Carrie Lobman, Ed.D. Chair, Department of Learning and Teaching Graduate School of Education Rutgers University www.gse.rutgers.edu www.eastsideinstitute.org www.performingtheworld.org From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Fri Mar 30 08:15:31 2018 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2018 15:15:31 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: AERA Session: Being/Becoming an Activist Scholar: Lessons From Cultural-Historical Activity Research In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1522422907311.68438@iped.uio.no> Thanks for sharing, Carrie, this sounds super interesting. I wished I was there to be able to attend the session. I'll spread the word, Alfredo Jornet ________________________________ New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and intransitive dimensions" Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Carrie Lobman Sent: 30 March 2018 16:33 To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu Subject: [Xmca-l] AERA Session: Being/Becoming an Activist Scholar: Lessons From Cultural-Historical Activity Research Hello XMCAers, I am very pleased to be chairing this timely and important session at AERA in a few weeks (Monday April 16). The idea for Being/Becoming an Activist-Scholar was born at last years conference in San Antonio where I felt a shift as more and more people, particularly graduate students, were identifying as activist scholars or were seeking to engage in activism. I believe as socio-cultural and activitists we have much to offer this conversation and a responsibility to lead and teach. I was thrilled that Kris Guitierrez, Lois Holzman, and Anna Stetsenko agreed to be our featured speakers as they each bring a long history of rigorous scholarship and activism but from with different frameworks, activities and communities. These three presentations will jumpstart a conversation with an invited panel of emerging and established scholar activists who will collectively interview and respond to the presentations and lead a discussion with the audience. Please get the word out as widely as possible. http://tinyurl.com/y7zguva7 Carrie Carrie Lobman, Ed.D. Chair, Department of Learning and Teaching Graduate School of Education Rutgers University www.gse.rutgers.edu www.eastsideinstitute.org www.performingtheworld.org From lsmolucha@hotmail.com Fri Mar 30 10:21:27 2018 From: lsmolucha@hotmail.com (Larry Smolucha) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2018 17:21:27 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: AERA Session: Being/Becoming an Activist Scholar: Lessons From Cultural-Historical Activity Research In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Message from Francine Smolucha: This link has an interview that would be of interest to activist./scholars https://youtu.be/K4kHiUAjTvQ [https://i.ytimg.com/vi/K4kHiUAjTvQ/hqdefault.jpg] Yuri Bezmenov - KGB Defector on "Useful Idiots" and the True Face of Communism youtu.be The USA is at this moment a destabilized nation on the way to crisis. In this interview from 1984, Yuri Bezmenov articulates the method. ________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Carrie Lobman Sent: Friday, March 30, 2018 9:33 AM To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu Subject: [Xmca-l] AERA Session: Being/Becoming an Activist Scholar: Lessons From Cultural-Historical Activity Research Hello XMCAers, I am very pleased to be chairing this timely and important session at AERA in a few weeks (Monday April 16). The idea for Being/Becoming an Activist-Scholar was born at last years conference in San Antonio where I felt a shift as more and more people, particularly graduate students, were identifying as activist scholars or were seeking to engage in activism. I believe as socio-cultural and activitists we have much to offer this conversation and a responsibility to lead and teach. What Is a 21st-Century Activist Scholar to Do? tinyurl.com To the na?ve mind revolution and history seem incompatible. It believes that historical development continues as long as it follows a straight line. When a change comes, a break in the historical fabric, a leap?then this na?ve mind sees only catastrophe, a fall, a rupture; for the na?ve mind history ends until back again straight and narrow. The scientific mind on the contrary, views revolution as the locomotive of history, forging ahead at full speed; it regards the revolutionary epoch as the tangible, living embodiment of history. A revolution solves only those tasks which have been raised by history; this proposition holds equally true for revolution in general and for aspects of social and cultural life. (Vygotsky as quoted in Leviathan, 1982). Socio-cultural theory was born of activism. It emerged in the early, most improvisational moments of the Russian Revolution, and one of its continuing provocations is that it does not claim to be objective or apolitical. Vygotsky and his followers located thei I was thrilled that Kris Guitierrez, Lois Holzman, and Anna Stetsenko agreed to be our featured speakers as they each bring a long history of rigorous scholarship and activism but from with different frameworks, activities and communities. These three presentations will jumpstart a conversation with an invited panel of emerging and established scholar activists who will collectively interview and respond to the presentations and lead a discussion with the audience. Please get the word out as widely as possible. http://tinyurl.com/y7zguva7 Carrie Carrie Lobman, Ed.D. Chair, Department of Learning and Teaching Graduate School of Education Rutgers University www.gse.rutgers.edu www.eastsideinstitute.org> www.performingtheworld.org> From mcole@ucsd.edu Fri Mar 30 16:45:36 2018 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2018 16:45:36 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: AERA Session: Being/Becoming an Activist Scholar: Lessons From Cultural-Historical Activity Research In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Francine- What sort of lesson would you like us to take from Mr. Bezmenov's interviews? mike On Fri, Mar 30, 2018 at 10:21 AM, Larry Smolucha wrote: > Message from Francine Smolucha: > > > This link has an interview that would be of interest to activist./scholars > > > https://youtu.be/K4kHiUAjTvQ > > [https://i.ytimg.com/vi/K4kHiUAjTvQ/hqdefault.jpg] ps://youtu.be/K4kHiUAjTvQ> > > Yuri Bezmenov - KGB Defector on "Useful Idiots" and the True Face of > Communism > youtu.be > The USA is at this moment a destabilized nation on the way to crisis. In > this interview from 1984, Yuri Bezmenov articulates the method. > > > > > ________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Carrie Lobman > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2018 9:33 AM > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > Subject: [Xmca-l] AERA Session: Being/Becoming an Activist Scholar: > Lessons From Cultural-Historical Activity Research > > Hello XMCAers, > > > I am very pleased to be chairing this timely and important session at AERA > in a few weeks (Monday April 16). The idea for Being/Becoming an > Activist-Scholar was born at last years > conference in San Antonio where I felt a shift as more and more people, > particularly graduate students, were identifying as activist scholars or > were seeking to engage in activism. I believe as socio-cultural and > activitists we have much to offer this conversation and a responsibility to > lead and teach. > What Is a 21st-Century Activist Scholar to Do? > > tinyurl.com > To the na?ve mind revolution and history seem incompatible. It believes > that historical development continues as long as it follows a straight > line. When a change comes, a break in the historical fabric, a leap?then > this na?ve mind sees only catastrophe, a fall, a rupture; for the na?ve > mind history ends until back again straight and narrow. The scientific mind > on the contrary, views revolution as the locomotive of history, forging > ahead at full speed; it regards the revolutionary epoch as the tangible, > living embodiment of history. A revolution solves only those tasks which > have been raised by history; this proposition holds equally true for > revolution in general and for aspects of social and cultural life. > (Vygotsky as quoted in Leviathan, 1982). Socio-cultural theory was born of > activism. It emerged in the early, most improvisational moments of the > Russian Revolution, and one of its continuing provocations is that it does > not claim to be objective or apolitical. Vygotsky and his followers located > thei > > > > > I was thrilled that Kris Guitierrez, Lois Holzman, and Anna Stetsenko > agreed to be our featured speakers as they each bring a long history of > rigorous scholarship and activism but from with different frameworks, > activities and communities. These three presentations will jumpstart a > conversation with an invited panel of emerging and established scholar > activists who will collectively interview and respond to the presentations > and lead a discussion with the audience. > > > Please get the word out as widely as possible. > > > http://tinyurl.com/y7zguva7 > > > Carrie > > > Carrie Lobman, Ed.D. > > Chair, Department of Learning and Teaching > > Graduate School of Education > > Rutgers University > > www.gse.rutgers.edu > > www.eastsideinstitute.org ttp://www.eastsideinstitute.org> > > www.performingtheworld.org performingtheworld.org> > > > From m1ket4n@gmail.com Fri Mar 30 20:09:46 2018 From: m1ket4n@gmail.com (Michael Tan) Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2018 11:09:46 +0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: AERA Session: Being/Becoming an Activist Scholar: Lessons From Cultural-Historical Activity Research In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <75F54684-0D46-4079-98A2-8DCF52F07C39@gmail.com> Hi Francine- What sort of lesson would you like us to take from Mr. Bezmenov's interviews? mike On Fri, Mar 30, 2018 at 10:21 AM, Larry Smolucha wrote: > Message from Francine Smolucha: > > > This link has an interview that would be of interest to activist./scholars > > > https://youtu.be/K4kHiUAjTvQ > > [https://i.ytimg.com/vi/K4kHiUAjTvQ/hqdefault.jpg] ps://youtu.be/K4kHiUAjTvQ> > > Yuri Bezmenov - KGB Defector on "Useful Idiots" and the True Face of > Communism > youtu.be > The USA is at this moment a destabilized nation on the way to crisis. In > this interview from 1984, Yuri Bezmenov articulates the method. > > > > > ________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Carrie Lobman > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2018 9:33 AM > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > Subject: [Xmca-l] AERA Session: Being/Becoming an Activist Scholar: > Lessons From Cultural-Historical Activity Research > > Hello XMCAers, > > > I am very pleased to be chairing this timely and important session at AERA > in a few weeks (Monday April 16). The idea for Being/Becoming an > Activist-Scholar was born at last years > conference in San Antonio where I felt a shift as more and more people, > particularly graduate students, were identifying as activist scholars or > were seeking to engage in activism. I believe as socio-cultural and > activitists we have much to offer this conversation and a responsibility to > lead and teach. > What Is a 21st-Century Activist Scholar to Do?> > tinyurl.com > To the na?ve mind revolution and history seem incompatible. It believes > that historical development continues as long as it follows a straight > line. When a change comes, a break in the historical fabric, a leap?then > this na?ve mind sees only catastrophe, a fall, a rupture; for the na?ve > mind history ends until back again straight and narrow. The scientific mind > on the contrary, views revolution as the locomotive of history, forging > ahead at full speed; it regards the revolutionary epoch as the tangible, > living embodiment of history. A revolution solves only those tasks which > have been raised by history; this proposition holds equally true for > revolution in general and for aspects of social and cultural life. > (Vygotsky as quoted in Leviathan, 1982). Socio-cultural theory was born of > activism. It emerged in the early, most improvisational moments of the > Russian Revolution, and one of its continuing provocations is that it does > not claim to be objective or apolitical. Vygotsky and his followers located > thei > > > > > I was thrilled that Kris Guitierrez, Lois Holzman, and Anna Stetsenko > agreed to be our featured speakers as they each bring a long history of > rigorous scholarship and activism but from with different frameworks, > activities and communities. These three presentations will jumpstart a > conversation with an invited panel of emerging and established scholar > activists who will collectively interview and respond to the presentations > and lead a discussion with the audience. > > > Please get the word out as widely as possible. > > > http://tinyurl.com/y7zguva7 > > > Carrie > > > Carrie Lobman, Ed.D. > > Chair, Department of Learning and Teaching > > Graduate School of Education > > Rutgers University > > www.gse.rutgers.edu > > www.eastsideinstitute.org ttp://www.eastsideinstitute.org> > > www.performingtheworld.org performingtheworld.org> > > > From mcole@ucsd.edu Sat Mar 31 07:01:21 2018 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2018 14:01:21 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] A test Message-ID: This a test to see if Michael Tan?s name appears in place of mine on email sent to xmca. Apologies to Mr Tan, an xmca subscriber, for what I hope is just a computer glitch. Best Easter and Passover greetings to all. Mike (Cole) From carrie.lobman@gse.rutgers.edu Sat Mar 31 08:44:11 2018 From: carrie.lobman@gse.rutgers.edu (Carrie Lobman) Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2018 11:44:11 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: AERA Session: Being/Becoming an Activist Scholar: Lessons From Cultural-Historical Activity Research In-Reply-To: <1522422907311.68438@iped.uio.no> References: <1522422907311.68438@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: Thanks Alfredo Carrie Lobman, EdD Associate Professor Graduate School of Education Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey 848-932-0809 carrie.lobman@gse.rutgers.edu gse.rutgers.edu eastsideinstitute.org performingtheworld.org On Fri, Mar 30, 2018 at 11:15 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > Thanks for sharing, Carrie, this sounds super interesting. I wished I was > there to be able to attend the session. I'll spread the word, > > Alfredo Jornet > ________________________________ > New article in *Design Studies* "Imagining Design: Transitive and > intransitive dimensions" > Free print available: https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1WhHg_,KmyN6Dr > > ________________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Carrie Lobman > Sent: 30 March 2018 16:33 > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > Subject: [Xmca-l] AERA Session: Being/Becoming an Activist Scholar: > Lessons From Cultural-Historical Activity Research > > Hello XMCAers, > > > I am very pleased to be chairing this timely and important session at AERA > in a few weeks (Monday April 16). The idea for Being/Becoming an > Activist-Scholar was born at last years > conference in San Antonio where I felt a shift as more and more people, > particularly graduate students, were identifying as activist scholars or > were seeking to engage in activism. I believe as socio-cultural and > activitists we have much to offer this conversation and a responsibility to > lead and teach. > > > I was thrilled that Kris Guitierrez, Lois Holzman, and Anna Stetsenko > agreed to be our featured speakers as they each bring a long history of > rigorous scholarship and activism but from with different frameworks, > activities and communities. These three presentations will jumpstart a > conversation with an invited panel of emerging and established scholar > activists who will collectively interview and respond to the presentations > and lead a discussion with the audience. > > > Please get the word out as widely as possible. > > > http://tinyurl.com/y7zguva7 > > > Carrie > > > Carrie Lobman, Ed.D. > > Chair, Department of Learning and Teaching > > Graduate School of Education > > Rutgers University > > www.gse.rutgers.edu > > www.eastsideinstitute.org > > www.performingtheworld.org > > > > From Peg.Griffin@att.net Sat Mar 31 09:05:44 2018 From: Peg.Griffin@att.net (Peg Griffin) Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2018 12:05:44 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: A test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003001d3c90a$20f88450$62e98cf0$@att.net> Nope. You are you, Mike! And glad am I of that! What I got yesterday was a short query from you and right after that another post with the same message except with the Tan name in the sender space! Peg -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2018 10:01 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] A test This a test to see if Michael Tan?s name appears in place of mine on email sent to xmca. Apologies to Mr Tan, an xmca subscriber, for what I hope is just a computer glitch. Best Easter and Passover greetings to all. Mike (Cole) From Peg.Griffin@att.net Sat Mar 31 09:07:09 2018 From: Peg.Griffin@att.net (Peg Griffin) Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2018 12:07:09 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: A test References: Message-ID: <003101d3c90a$53375ef0$f9a61cd0$@att.net> So Tan is sort of like a "cultural amplifier," huh? :) -----Original Message----- From: Peg Griffin [mailto:Peg.Griffin@att.net] Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2018 12:06 PM To: 'lchcmike@gmail.com'; 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' Subject: RE: [Xmca-l] A test Nope. You are you, Mike! And glad am I of that! What I got yesterday was a short query from you and right after that another post with the same message except with the Tan name in the sender space! Peg -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2018 10:01 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] A test This a test to see if Michael Tan?s name appears in place of mine on email sent to xmca. Apologies to Mr Tan, an xmca subscriber, for what I hope is just a computer glitch. Best Easter and Passover greetings to all. Mike (Cole) From bjones@ucsd.edu Sat Mar 31 14:41:44 2018 From: bjones@ucsd.edu (Bruce Jones) Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2018 14:41:44 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: A test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <96546d53-05f3-46a0-7ee2-77b9be602c8e@ucsd.edu> On 3/31/18 7:01 AM, mike cole wrote: > This a test ?to see if Michael Tan?s name appears in place of mine on > email sent to xmca. Things appear to be working normally. Phase of the moon? -- Bruce Jones Sys Admin, LCHC bjones@ucsd.edu 619-823-8281 -- From mckinneydero@wisc.edu Sat Mar 31 14:56:13 2018 From: mckinneydero@wisc.edu (Maxine McKinney de Royston) Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2018 21:56:13 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: AERA Session: Being/Becoming an Activist Scholar: Lessons From Cultural-Historical Activity Research In-Reply-To: <338F0FE7-199B-45AC-8E1C-50F9D7D91333@wisc.edu> References: <338F0FE7-199B-45AC-8E1C-50F9D7D91333@wisc.edu> Message-ID: <29EB2D8F-7E0B-42DB-BD70-DA92780F823A@wisc.edu> Dear all- I tend to be among the many legitimate peripheral participants on this list, but felt compelled to shift roles in order to respond this thread. Carrie and others- thank you for creating the space for such a timely and critically necessary conversation at AERA. As a junior scholar, these types of sessions are ones that I often look for and rarely find. I'm leaving AERA earlier that day and cannot attend, but will spread the word about it far and wide. I hope there will be future opportunities to continue these types of conversations. Sincerely, Maxine McKinney de Royston Assistant Professor, Curriculum & Instruction University of Wisconsin- Madison @profm_de_r On 3/30/18, 9:35 AM, "xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Carrie Lobman" wrote: Hello XMCAers, I am very pleased to be chairing this timely and important session at AERA in a few weeks (Monday April 16). The idea for Being/Becoming an Activist-Scholar was born at last years conference in San Antonio where I felt a shift as more and more people, particularly graduate students, were identifying as activist scholars or were seeking to engage in activism. I believe as socio-cultural and activitists we have much to offer this conversation and a responsibility to lead and teach. I was thrilled that Kris Guitierrez, Lois Holzman, and Anna Stetsenko agreed to be our featured speakers as they each bring a long history of rigorous scholarship and activism but from with different frameworks, activities and communities. These three presentations will jumpstart a conversation with an invited panel of emerging and established scholar activists who will collectively interview and respond to the presentations and lead a discussion with the audience. Please get the word out as widely as possible. http://tinyurl.com/y7zguva7 Carrie Carrie Lobman, Ed.D. Chair, Department of Learning and Teaching Graduate School of Education Rutgers University www.gse.rutgers.edu www.eastsideinstitute.org www.performingtheworld.org From mcole@ucsd.edu Sat Mar 31 17:41:26 2018 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2018 00:41:26 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: A test In-Reply-To: <96546d53-05f3-46a0-7ee2-77b9be602c8e@ucsd.edu> References: <96546d53-05f3-46a0-7ee2-77b9be602c8e@ucsd.edu> Message-ID: Who knows! Thnx for being there Mike On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 2:41 PM Bruce Jones wrote: > On 3/31/18 7:01 AM, mike cole wrote: > > This a test to see if Michael Tan?s name appears in place of mine on > > email sent to xmca. > > Things appear to be working normally. > > Phase of the moon? > > -- > Bruce Jones > Sys Admin, LCHC > bjones@ucsd.edu > 619-823-8281 > > -- > From lsmolucha@hotmail.com Sat Mar 31 20:29:27 2018 From: lsmolucha@hotmail.com (Larry Smolucha) Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2018 03:29:27 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: AERA Session: Being/Becoming an Activist Scholar: Lessons From Cultural-Historical Activity Research In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: message from Francine: Here are some points for activist/scholars to consider regarding the 1984 interview with Soviet KGB defector Yuri Berzmenov. Here's the link (again): https://youtu.be/K4kHiUAjTvQ [https://i.ytimg.com/vi/K4kHiUAjTvQ/hqdefault.jpg] Yuri Bezmenov - KGB Defector on "Useful Idiots" and the True Face of Communism youtu.be The USA is at this moment a destabilized nation on the way to crisis. In this interview from 1984, Yuri Bezmenov articulates the method. Just for starters, 1. Yuir Bezmenov provides a working model for destabilizing a nation involving processes such as demoralization, abandonment of rational discourse, instigating crises, and normalization under the new social order. 2. This interview is from 1984 so it is also old news of Russian "interference." 3. Apparently, there is no actual citation from Lenin of his having used the term "useful idiots' to describe the manipulation of unwitting traumatized people by someone with ulterior motives. The recently traumatized high school student March for Life activists are vulnerable to such manipulation. No one knows whether the movement will fizzle out out or even produce voters on election day. Certainly a few student activists might have found their calling. The nerve of me posting something like this that interrupts what could have been a seamless narrative on XMCA. But as scholars, this is an interesting opportunity to study this (and learn) from this social phenomenon (March for Lives). I remember (years ago) Dr. Jack Getzels at the University of Chicago talking about a study of student activists in the 1960's that found some of the most committed student leaders scored at the highest level of Kohlberg's stages of moral development but just as many were anarchists at the lowest level. Are activist/ scholars or activist/teachers all of one type? ________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of mike cole Sent: Friday, March 30, 2018 6:45 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: AERA Session: Being/Becoming an Activist Scholar: Lessons From Cultural-Historical Activity Research Hi Francine- What sort of lesson would you like us to take from Mr. Bezmenov's interviews? mike On Fri, Mar 30, 2018 at 10:21 AM, Larry Smolucha wrote: > Message from Francine Smolucha: > > > This link has an interview that would be of interest to activist./scholars > > > https://youtu.be/K4kHiUAjTvQ [https://i.ytimg.com/vi/K4kHiUAjTvQ/hqdefault.jpg] Yuri Bezmenov - KGB Defector on "Useful Idiots" and the True Face of Communism youtu.be The USA is at this moment a destabilized nation on the way to crisis. In this interview from 1984, Yuri Bezmenov articulates the method. > > [https://i.ytimg.com/vi/K4kHiUAjTvQ/hqdefault.jpg] ps://youtu.be/K4kHiUAjTvQ> > > Yuri Bezmenov - KGB Defector on "Useful Idiots" and the True Face of > Communism > youtu.be > The USA is at this moment a destabilized nation on the way to crisis. In > this interview from 1984, Yuri Bezmenov articulates the method. > > > > > ________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Carrie Lobman > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2018 9:33 AM > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > Subject: [Xmca-l] AERA Session: Being/Becoming an Activist Scholar: > Lessons From Cultural-Historical Activity Research > > Hello XMCAers, > > > I am very pleased to be chairing this timely and important session at AERA > in a few weeks (Monday April 16). The idea for Being/Becoming an > Activist-Scholar was born at last years > conference in San Antonio where I felt a shift as more and more people, > particularly graduate students, were identifying as activist scholars or > were seeking to engage in activism. I believe as socio-cultural and > activitists we have much to offer this conversation and a responsibility to > lead and teach. > What Is a 21st-Century Activist Scholar to Do? > > tinyurl.com > To the na?ve mind revolution and history seem incompatible. It believes > that historical development continues as long as it follows a straight > line. When a change comes, a break in the historical fabric, a leap?then > this na?ve mind sees only catastrophe, a fall, a rupture; for the na?ve > mind history ends until back again straight and narrow. The scientific mind > on the contrary, views revolution as the locomotive of history, forging > ahead at full speed; it regards the revolutionary epoch as the tangible, > living embodiment of history. A revolution solves only those tasks which > have been raised by history; this proposition holds equally true for > revolution in general and for aspects of social and cultural life. > (Vygotsky as quoted in Leviathan, 1982). Socio-cultural theory was born of > activism. It emerged in the early, most improvisational moments of the > Russian Revolution, and one of its continuing provocations is that it does > not claim to be objective or apolitical. Vygotsky and his followers located > thei > > > > > I was thrilled that Kris Guitierrez, Lois Holzman, and Anna Stetsenko > agreed to be our featured speakers as they each bring a long history of > rigorous scholarship and activism but from with different frameworks, > activities and communities. These three presentations will jumpstart a > conversation with an invited panel of emerging and established scholar > activists who will collectively interview and respond to the presentations > and lead a discussion with the audience. > > > Please get the word out as widely as possible. > > > http://tinyurl.com/y7zguva7 > > > Carrie > > > Carrie Lobman, Ed.D. > > Chair, Department of Learning and Teaching > > Graduate School of Education > > Rutgers University > > www.gse.rutgers.edu > > www.eastsideinstitute.org > ttp://www.eastsideinstitute.org> > > www.performingtheworld.org. > performingtheworld.org> > > > From dkellogg60@gmail.com Sat Mar 31 20:51:56 2018 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2018 12:51:56 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: AERA Session: Being/Becoming an Activist Scholar: Lessons From Cultural-Historical Activity Research In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Francine: First of all, we are all useful idiots. Just for example, Bezemenov was a "useful idiot" for the John Birchers. And John Birch himself was a "useful idiot". Secondly, the Larry Kohlberg studies were rightly criticized at book length by Carol Gilligan (and at somewhat shorter length by Yongho Kim and myself in "Rocks and a Hard Place", in Language and Education in 2015. Thirdly, one of the things that makes people activists, as opposed to amateur news therapists, is that we focus on the desirability of outcomes and not just motives. If the study of morality over history tells us anything, it is that only bad outcomes ever come from pure motives. Progress, like development, is always complexly motivated. David Kellogg Sangmyung University Recent Article in *Early Years* The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and the child?s first interrogatives Free e-print available at: https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 12:29 PM, Larry Smolucha wrote: > message from Francine: > > > Here are some points for activist/scholars to consider regarding the 1984 > interview with Soviet KGB defector Yuri Berzmenov. > > > > Here's the link (again): > > https://youtu.be/K4kHiUAjTvQ > > [https://i.ytimg.com/vi/K4kHiUAjTvQ/hqdefault.jpg] ps://youtu.be/K4kHiUAjTvQ> > > Yuri Bezmenov - KGB Defector on "Useful Idiots" and the True Face of > Communism > youtu.be > The USA is at this moment a destabilized nation on the way to crisis. In > this interview from 1984, Yuri Bezmenov articulates the method. > > > > Just for starters, > > > 1. Yuir Bezmenov provides a working model for destabilizing a nation > involving processes such as demoralization, abandonment of rational > discourse, instigating crises, and normalization under the new social order. > 2. This interview is from 1984 so it is also old news of Russian > "interference." > 3. Apparently, there is no actual citation from Lenin of his having > used the term "useful idiots' to describe the manipulation of unwitting > traumatized people by someone with ulterior motives. The recently > traumatized high school student March for Life activists are vulnerable to > such manipulation. No one knows whether the movement will fizzle out out > or even produce voters on election day. Certainly a few student activists > might have found their calling. > > > The nerve of me posting something like this that interrupts what could > have been a seamless narrative on XMCA. But as scholars, this is an > interesting opportunity to study this (and learn) from this social > phenomenon (March for Lives). I remember (years ago) Dr. Jack Getzels at > the University of Chicago talking about a study of student activists in the > 1960's that found some of the most committed student leaders scored at the > highest level of Kohlberg's stages of moral development but just as many > were anarchists at the lowest level. Are activist/ scholars or > activist/teachers all of one type? > > > ________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of mike cole > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2018 6:45 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: AERA Session: Being/Becoming an Activist Scholar: > Lessons From Cultural-Historical Activity Research > > Hi Francine- > > What sort of lesson would you like us to take from Mr. Bezmenov's > interviews? > > mike > > > > On Fri, Mar 30, 2018 at 10:21 AM, Larry Smolucha > wrote: > > > Message from Francine Smolucha: > > > > > > This link has an interview that would be of interest to > activist./scholars > > > > > > https://youtu.be/K4kHiUAjTvQ > [https://i.ytimg.com/vi/K4kHiUAjTvQ/hqdefault.jpg] ps://youtu.be/K4kHiUAjTvQ> > > Yuri Bezmenov - KGB Defector on "Useful Idiots" and the True Face of > Communism > youtu.be > The USA is at this moment a destabilized nation on the way to crisis. In > this interview from 1984, Yuri Bezmenov articulates the method. > > > > > > [https://i.ytimg.com/vi/K4kHiUAjTvQ/hqdefault.jpg] > ps://youtu.be/K4kHiUAjTvQ> > > > > Yuri Bezmenov - KGB Defector on "Useful Idiots" and the True Face of > > Communism > > youtu.be > > The USA is at this moment a destabilized nation on the way to crisis. In > > this interview from 1984, Yuri Bezmenov articulates the method. > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > on behalf of Carrie Lobman > > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2018 9:33 AM > > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > > Subject: [Xmca-l] AERA Session: Being/Becoming an Activist Scholar: > > Lessons From Cultural-Historical Activity Research > > > > Hello XMCAers, > > > > > > I am very pleased to be chairing this timely and important session at > AERA > > in a few weeks (Monday April 16). The idea for Being/Becoming an > > Activist-Scholar was born at last years > > conference in San Antonio where I felt a shift as more and more people, > > particularly graduate students, were identifying as activist scholars or > > were seeking to engage in activism. I believe as socio-cultural and > > activitists we have much to offer this conversation and a responsibility > to > > lead and teach. > > What Is a 21st-Century Activist Scholar to Do? ybdkh6kw > > > > > tinyurl.com > > To the na?ve mind revolution and history seem incompatible. It believes > > that historical development continues as long as it follows a straight > > line. When a change comes, a break in the historical fabric, a leap?then > > this na?ve mind sees only catastrophe, a fall, a rupture; for the na?ve > > mind history ends until back again straight and narrow. The scientific > mind > > on the contrary, views revolution as the locomotive of history, forging > > ahead at full speed; it regards the revolutionary epoch as the tangible, > > living embodiment of history. A revolution solves only those tasks which > > have been raised by history; this proposition holds equally true for > > revolution in general and for aspects of social and cultural life. > > (Vygotsky as quoted in Leviathan, 1982). Socio-cultural theory was born > of > > activism. It emerged in the early, most improvisational moments of the > > Russian Revolution, and one of its continuing provocations is that it > does > > not claim to be objective or apolitical. Vygotsky and his followers > located > > thei > > > > > > > > > > I was thrilled that Kris Guitierrez, Lois Holzman, and Anna Stetsenko > > agreed to be our featured speakers as they each bring a long history of > > rigorous scholarship and activism but from with different frameworks, > > activities and communities. These three presentations will jumpstart a > > conversation with an invited panel of emerging and established scholar > > activists who will collectively interview and respond to the > presentations > > and lead a discussion with the audience. > > > > > > Please get the word out as widely as possible. > > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/y7zguva7 > > > > > > Carrie > > > > > > Carrie Lobman, Ed.D. > > > > Chair, Department of Learning and Teaching > > > > Graduate School of Education > > > > Rutgers University > > > > www.gse.rutgers.edu > > > > www.eastsideinstitute.org eastsideinstitute.org > > ttp://www.eastsideinstitute.org> > > > > www.performingtheworld.org http://www.performingtheworld.org p://www>. > > performingtheworld.org> > > > > > > > From greg.a.thompson@gmail.com Sat Mar 31 21:31:29 2018 From: greg.a.thompson@gmail.com (Greg Thompson) Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2018 22:31:29 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: AERA Session: Being/Becoming an Activist Scholar: Lessons From Cultural-Historical Activity Research In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm still not quite sure I understand what the pointer to Bezmenov was all about, but I do notice some eerie connections between Bezmenov's little speech and Ted Nugent's recent rant about the March for our Lives kids (and esp. the Parkland students): http://13wham.com/news/nation-world/ted-nugent-parkland-survivors-mushy-brained-children-who-have-no-soul Just noticing. -greg On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 9:51 PM, David Kellogg wrote: > Francine: > > First of all, we are all useful idiots. Just for example, Bezemenov was a > "useful idiot" for the John Birchers. And John Birch himself was a "useful > idiot". > > Secondly, the Larry Kohlberg studies were rightly criticized at book length > by Carol Gilligan (and at somewhat shorter length by Yongho Kim and myself > in "Rocks and a Hard Place", in Language and Education in 2015. > > Thirdly, one of the things that makes people activists, as opposed to > amateur news therapists, is that we focus on the desirability of outcomes > and not just motives. If the study of morality over history tells us > anything, it is that only bad outcomes ever come from pure > motives. Progress, like development, is always complexly motivated. > > David Kellogg > Sangmyung University > > Recent Article in *Early Years* > > The question of questions: Hasan?s critiques, Vygotsky?s crises, and the > child?s first interrogatives > > > Free e-print available at: > https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full > > > On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 12:29 PM, Larry Smolucha > wrote: > > > message from Francine: > > > > > > Here are some points for activist/scholars to consider regarding the 1984 > > interview with Soviet KGB defector Yuri Berzmenov. > > > > > > > > Here's the link (again): > > > > https://youtu.be/K4kHiUAjTvQ > > > > [https://i.ytimg.com/vi/K4kHiUAjTvQ/hqdefault.jpg] > ps://youtu.be/K4kHiUAjTvQ> > > > > Yuri Bezmenov - KGB Defector on "Useful Idiots" and the True Face of > > Communism > > youtu.be > > The USA is at this moment a destabilized nation on the way to crisis. In > > this interview from 1984, Yuri Bezmenov articulates the method. > > > > > > > > Just for starters, > > > > > > 1. Yuir Bezmenov provides a working model for destabilizing a nation > > involving processes such as demoralization, abandonment of rational > > discourse, instigating crises, and normalization under the new social > order. > > 2. This interview is from 1984 so it is also old news of Russian > > "interference." > > 3. Apparently, there is no actual citation from Lenin of his having > > used the term "useful idiots' to describe the manipulation of unwitting > > traumatized people by someone with ulterior motives. The recently > > traumatized high school student March for Life activists are vulnerable > to > > such manipulation. No one knows whether the movement will fizzle out out > > or even produce voters on election day. Certainly a few student activists > > might have found their calling. > > > > > > The nerve of me posting something like this that interrupts what could > > have been a seamless narrative on XMCA. But as scholars, this is an > > interesting opportunity to study this (and learn) from this social > > phenomenon (March for Lives). I remember (years ago) Dr. Jack Getzels at > > the University of Chicago talking about a study of student activists in > the > > 1960's that found some of the most committed student leaders scored at > the > > highest level of Kohlberg's stages of moral development but just as many > > were anarchists at the lowest level. Are activist/ scholars or > > activist/teachers all of one type? > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > on behalf of mike cole > > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2018 6:45 PM > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: AERA Session: Being/Becoming an Activist Scholar: > > Lessons From Cultural-Historical Activity Research > > > > Hi Francine- > > > > What sort of lesson would you like us to take from Mr. Bezmenov's > > interviews? > > > > mike > > > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 30, 2018 at 10:21 AM, Larry Smolucha > > wrote: > > > > > Message from Francine Smolucha: > > > > > > > > > This link has an interview that would be of interest to > > activist./scholars > > > > > > > > > https://youtu.be/K4kHiUAjTvQ > > [https://i.ytimg.com/vi/K4kHiUAjTvQ/hqdefault.jpg] > ps://youtu.be/K4kHiUAjTvQ> > > > > Yuri Bezmenov - KGB Defector on "Useful Idiots" and the True Face of > > Communism > > youtu.be > > The USA is at this moment a destabilized nation on the way to crisis. In > > this interview from 1984, Yuri Bezmenov articulates the method. > > > > > > > > > > [https://i.ytimg.com/vi/K4kHiUAjTvQ/hqdefault.jpg] > > ps://youtu.be/K4kHiUAjTvQ> > > > > > > Yuri Bezmenov - KGB Defector on "Useful Idiots" and the True Face of > > > Communism > > > youtu.be > > > The USA is at this moment a destabilized nation on the way to crisis. > In > > > this interview from 1984, Yuri Bezmenov articulates the method. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > on behalf of Carrie Lobman > > > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2018 9:33 AM > > > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] AERA Session: Being/Becoming an Activist Scholar: > > > Lessons From Cultural-Historical Activity Research > > > > > > Hello XMCAers, > > > > > > > > > I am very pleased to be chairing this timely and important session at > > AERA > > > in a few weeks (Monday April 16). The idea for Being/Becoming an > > > Activist-Scholar was born at last years > > > conference in San Antonio where I felt a shift as more and more people, > > > particularly graduate students, were identifying as activist scholars > or > > > were seeking to engage in activism. I believe as socio-cultural and > > > activitists we have much to offer this conversation and a > responsibility > > to > > > lead and teach. > > > What Is a 21st-Century Activist Scholar to Do? > ybdkh6kw > > > > > > > tinyurl.com > > > To the na?ve mind revolution and history seem incompatible. It believes > > > that historical development continues as long as it follows a straight > > > line. When a change comes, a break in the historical fabric, a > leap?then > > > this na?ve mind sees only catastrophe, a fall, a rupture; for the na?ve > > > mind history ends until back again straight and narrow. The scientific > > mind > > > on the contrary, views revolution as the locomotive of history, forging > > > ahead at full speed; it regards the revolutionary epoch as the > tangible, > > > living embodiment of history. A revolution solves only those tasks > which > > > have been raised by history; this proposition holds equally true for > > > revolution in general and for aspects of social and cultural life. > > > (Vygotsky as quoted in Leviathan, 1982). Socio-cultural theory was born > > of > > > activism. It emerged in the early, most improvisational moments of the > > > Russian Revolution, and one of its continuing provocations is that it > > does > > > not claim to be objective or apolitical. Vygotsky and his followers > > located > > > thei > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was thrilled that Kris Guitierrez, Lois Holzman, and Anna Stetsenko > > > agreed to be our featured speakers as they each bring a long history of > > > rigorous scholarship and activism but from with different frameworks, > > > activities and communities. These three presentations will jumpstart a > > > conversation with an invited panel of emerging and established scholar > > > activists who will collectively interview and respond to the > > presentations > > > and lead a discussion with the audience. > > > > > > > > > Please get the word out as widely as possible. > > > > > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/y7zguva7 > > > > > > > > > Carrie > > > > > > > > > Carrie Lobman, Ed.D. > > > > > > Chair, Department of Learning and Teaching > > > > > > Graduate School of Education > > > > > > Rutgers University > > > > > > www.gse.rutgers.edu > > > > > > www.eastsideinstitute.org http://www. > > eastsideinstitute.org > > > ttp://www.eastsideinstitute.org> > > > > > > www.performingtheworld.org http://www< > > http://www.performingtheworld.org > p://www>. > > > performingtheworld.org> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson