[Xmca-l] Re: Bronfennbrenner discussion
mike cole
mcole@ucsd.edu
Tue Jan 30 15:17:50 PST 2018
oops, hit a wrong key.
to continue
Hi Jon-
There are obviously a ton of issues to discuss in your article. I
guess that my paper on using his ideas as part of the process of designing
activities for kids in university-community partnerships is
an example of inappropriate mis-appropriations. I'm not sure. If I need a
defense its that I thought the ideas as I understood them useful, but I was
not testing his formulations in the same way you are concerned to do, but
using (some of) them for planning, analysis, and interpretation.
While trying to sort that out, I'll just make a couple of observations.
The problem of multiple simultaneous "influences" from one presumed level
of context to another always ties me in knots because its so hard to put
causal sequence into a non-linear process. So at times even you, who are so
sensitive to the problem, write (p 429)vis a vis Drillien's work "Third,
to understand the way the way context influences proximal
processes.........
Influence reads here to me like a cause, or a contributing cause.
I wrote this in 1996 (referring the version of concentric circles diagram
we were using at the time):
This image is probably best known in connection with Bronfenbrenner's
(1979) monograph on the ecology of human development. He describes embedded
systems, starting with the microsystem at the core and proceeding outward
through meso- and exosystems, to the macrosystem. In applying the notion of
context to issues of education, Cole & Griffin (1987) took as the "unit in
the middle" to be a teacher‑pupil exchange that was part of a lesson that
was part of a classroom that was part of school, that was part of a
community.
The study of language is an important domain in which the promise and
problems of the idea of "layers of context" has been usefully applied
(Bateson, 1972; Jackobsen and Halle, 1956). A fundamental property of
language is that its levels of organization are mutually constituted; a
phoneme exists as such only in combination with other phonemes which make
up a word. The word is the context of the phoneme. But the word only
exists as such‑‑only "has meaning"‑‑in the larger context of the utterance,
which again "has meaning" only in a relationship to a large unit of
discourse. Bateson summarizes this way of thinking in his remark that
This hierarchy of contexts within contexts is universal for the
communicational . . . aspect of phenomena and drives the scientist always
to seek explanation in the ever larger units (1972, p. 402).
Note that in this description there is no simple, temporal, ordering. "That
which surrounds" occurs before, after, and simultaneously with the
"act/event" in question. We cannot say sentences before we say words, nor
words before synthesizing phonemes in an appropriate way; rather, there is
a complex temporal interdependence among levels of context which motivates
the notion that levels of context constitute each other.
To take our example of the teacher-child exchange, it is easy to see such
events as "caused" by higher levels of context: a teacher give a lesson,
which is shaped by the classroom it is a part of, which in turn is shaped
by the kind of school it is in, which in turn is shaped by the community,
etc.
While more inclusive levels of context may constrain lower levels, they do
not cause them in a uni-linear fashion. For the event "a lesson" to occur,
the participants must actively engage in a consensual process of "lesson
making." Teachers often vary considerably in the way they interpret the
conventions of the school, and school communities participate in the
selection of the board of education. Without forgetting for a moment that
the power relations among participants “at different levels of context” are
often unequal, it is no less important when using the nested contexts
approach to take into account the fact that context creation is an actively
achieved, two-sided process (See Durante and Goodwin (1992), Lave (1993),
and McDermott (1993) for trenchant criticisms of context treated as the
container of objects and behaviors). (p. 134 cultural psych)
On p. 358 in the notes (which I do not have a word version of, so can only
point here) there is a passage quoting p. 462 of *Steps* where Bateson says
that while thinking relationaly is essential, he is incapable of it on a
daily basis. "I still think,
"Gregory Bateson is cutting down a tree. *I *am cutting down a tree." ...he
then goes on to say he can intellectualize it, but
not engage in it as a part of everyday practice.....
Tough problem.
With regard to Pepper and Vygotsky.
Firstly, I think it is problematic to categorize Vygotsky as a
contextualist as you/Pepper define the concept. Natalia Gajamaschko and I
wrote about this and I can send to anyone interested in pursuing that part
of the tangle. But more recently, a young Iranian scholar has published on
this topic with a commentary by Anna Stetsenko who has been known on xmca
for her work on transformative agency and deep knowledge of
cultural-historical theorizing.
I attach those recent discussions for those for whoever here is interested
in this tread. My own view is that LSV's theory is a hybrid of
contextualism and organicism (interweaving of phylogeny, cultural history,
ontogeny). Pepper identifies such hybridizing as anethema to clear
thinking, but I seem to have fallen irretrievably, into that way of
thinking.
Lots more of potential topics,
someone else's turn!
Mike
On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 2:45 PM, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:
> Hi Jon-
>
> There are obviously a ton of issues to discuss in your article. I
> guess that my paper on using his ideas as part of the process of designing
> activities for kids in university-community partnerships is
> an example of inappropriate mis-appropriations. I'm not sure. If I need a
> defense its that I thought the ideas as I understood them useful, but I was
> not testing his formulations in the same way you are concerned to do, but
> using (some of) them for planning, analysis, and interpretation.
>
> While trying to sort that out, I'll just make a couple of
> observations.
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 5:17 PM, Jonathan Tudge <jrtudge@uncg.edu> wrote:
>
>> Yes, Martin, there always is culture within the microsystem--it's the only
>> place in which culture is experienced. Microsystems are always embedded
>> within culture (I'd add always within multiple cultures, but I don't think
>> that Urie ever wrote that).
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Jon
>>
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>> Jonathan Tudge
>>
>> Professor
>> Office: 155 Stone
>>
>> Our work on gratitude: http://morethanthanks.wp.uncg.edu/
>>
>> A new book just published: Tudge, J. & Freitas, L. (Eds.) Developing
>> gratitude in children and adolescents
>> <https://www.uncg.edu/hdf/faculty/tudge/books/dev-gratitude-
>> in-children-and-adolescents-flyer.pdf>,
>> Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press
>>
>> My web site:http://www.uncg.edu/hdf/faculty/tudge
>>
>> Mailing address:
>> 248 Stone Building
>> Department of Human Development and Family Studies
>> PO Box 26170
>> The University of North Carolina at Greensboro
>> Greensboro, NC 27402-6170
>> USA
>>
>> phone (336) 223-6181
>> fax (336) 334-5076
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 7:10 PM, Martin Packer <mpacker@cantab.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Wow, very graphic! At first I thought my microsystem had exploded! :)
>> >
>> > The 20,000 dollar question for me has always been, why is culture in the
>> > macrosystem? Is there no culture in my here-&-now interactions with
>> other
>> > people? (Well, perhaps in my case not!)
>> >
>> > Martin
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > > On Jan 29, 2018, at 6:34 PM, Jonathan Tudge <jrtudge@uncg.edu> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Greetings, Martin,
>> > >
>> > > I hope that this works (taken from a powerpoint presentation).
>> > >
>> > > Cheers,
>> > >
>> > > Jon
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~
>> > >
>> > > Jonathan Tudge
>> > >
>> > > Professor
>> > > Office: 155 Stone
>> > >
>> > > Our work on gratitude: http://morethanthanks.wp.uncg.edu/
>> > >
>> > > A new book just published: Tudge, J. & Freitas, L. (Eds.) Developing
>> > > gratitude in children and adolescents
>> > > <https://www.uncg.edu/hdf/faculty/tudge/books/dev-
>> > gratitude-in-children-and-adolescents-flyer.pdf>,
>> > > Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press
>> > >
>> > > My web site:http://www.uncg.edu/hdf/faculty/tudge
>> > >
>> > > Mailing address:
>> > > 248 Stone Building
>> > > Department of Human Development and Family Studies
>> > > PO Box 26170
>> > > The University of North Carolina at Greensboro
>> > > Greensboro, NC 27402-6170
>> > > USA
>> > >
>> > > phone (336) 223-6181
>> > > fax (336) 334-5076
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 6:22 PM, Martin Packer <mpacker@cantab.net>
>> > wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> Hi Jon,
>> > >>
>> > >> Would it be possible for you to post here the figure you mentioned in
>> > your
>> > >> message, page 69 of your book?
>> > >>
>> > >> Martin
>> > >>
>> > >> "I may say that whenever I meet Mrs. Seligman or Dr. Lowie or discuss
>> > >> matters with Radcliffe-Brown or Kroeber, I become at once aware that
>> my
>> > >> partner does not understand anything in the matter, and I end usually
>> > with
>> > >> the feeling that this also applies to myself” (Malinowski, 1930)
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>> On Jan 29, 2018, at 10:24 AM, Jonathan Tudge <jrtudge@uncg.edu>
>> wrote:
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Hi, Mike,
>> > >>>
>> > >>> There are a couple of problems with the 2005 book. One is that the
>> > >> papers
>> > >>> are drawn from UB's writings from the 1970s to the early part of
>> this
>> > >>> century. As is true of Vygotsky's writings (and probably any
>> theorist
>> > >> who
>> > >>> wrote over a significant span of time) it's really important to know
>> > the
>> > >>> date of publication. The other problem is that at least one of the
>> > >>> chapters is incomplete, and there are errors in at least one other.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> As for the concentric circles or the matrioshka--they're both
>> excellent
>> > >>> examples of how powerful metaphors can go powerfully wrong! Both
>> are
>> > >>> utterly misleading, in that they really focus attention on the
>> > different
>> > >>> layers of context (and even then don't make sense--the mesosystem
>> > >> consists
>> > >>> of overlapping circles, as in a Venn diagram). Nonetheless, you're
>> > >>> right--UB continued to use the metaphor in his final publications.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> However, his theory really developed a lot from the 1970s onwards
>> (see
>> > >> Rosa
>> > >>> and Tudge, 2013; Tudge, 2013), and from the early 1990s onwards
>> > "proximal
>> > >>> processes" were the centerpiece of his Process-Person-Context-Time
>> > (PPCT)
>> > >>> model. These are essentially the everyday activities in which
>> > developing
>> > >>> people engage, and they always and only occur in microsystems.
>> > However,
>> > >>> what goes on in microsystems is always influenced by (a) the person
>> > >>> characteristics of the developing individuals of interest and those
>> of
>> > >> the
>> > >>> others with whom they interact, (b) the characteristics of the
>> context,
>> > >>> both proximal (as in the nature of the microsystem in which those
>> > >>> activities are occurring) and distal (the macrosystem, which for him
>> > was
>> > >>> culture, whether considered at the level of society or
>> within-society
>> > >>> cultural groups), and (c) time, which includes both the need to
>> study
>> > >> over
>> > >>> time (longitudinally) and in time (the prevailing social, economic,
>> and
>> > >>> political climate). A graphic representation that better reflects
>> > his
>> > >>> developed position than the concentric circles can be found in Tudge
>> > >>> (2008), on page 69.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> I actually think that he rather dropped the ball on culture,
>> > >>> unfortunately. I really like his writings on this in his 1979 book
>> and
>> > >> in
>> > >>> his 1989 (or 1992) chapter on ecological systems theory. Reading
>> his
>> > >> 1998
>> > >>> (or 2006) handbook chapters you'll find virtually no mention of the
>> > >> impact
>> > >>> of culture (or macrosystem) despite drawing on Steinberg et al.'s
>> > >> research
>> > >>> on adolescents from different racial/ethnic groups.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Don't feel bad, though, if you have always just thought of
>> > >> Bronfenbrenner's
>> > >>> theory as one of concentric circles of context--you're no different
>> in
>> > >> that
>> > >>> regard from just about everyone who has published an undergrad
>> textbook
>> > >> on
>> > >>> human development, not to mention a majority of scholars who have
>> said
>> > >> that
>> > >>> they've used UB's theory as foundational for their research (see
>> Tudge
>> > et
>> > >>> al., 2009, 2016).
>> > >>>
>> > >>> If anyone would like a copy of any of these papers, just send me a
>> > >> private
>> > >>> message to jrtudge@uncg.edu
>> > >>>
>> > >>> - Tudge, J. R. H. (2008). *The everyday lives of young children:
>> > >>> Culture, class, and child rearing in diverse societies.* New York:
>> > >>> Cambridge University Press.
>> > >>> - Tudge, J. R. H., Mokrova, I., Hatfield, B., & Karnik, R. B.
>> (2009).
>> > >>> Uses and misuses of Bronfenbrenner’s bioecological theory of human
>> > >>> development. *Journal of Family Theory and Review, 1*(4), 198-210.
>> > >>> - Rosa, E. M., & Tudge, J. R. H. (2013). Urie Bronfenbrenner’s
>> theory
>> > >> of
>> > >>> human development: Its evolution from ecology to bioecology.
>> *Journal
>> > >> of
>> > >>> Family Theory and Review, 5*(6), 243–258. DOI:10.1111/jftr.12022
>> > >>> - Tudge, J. R. H. (2013). Urie Bronfenbrenner. In Heather
>> Montgomery
>> > >>> (Ed.), *Oxford bibliographies on line: Childhood studies*. New
>> York:
>> > >>> Oxford University Press.
>> > >>> - Tudge, J. R. H., Payir, A., Merçon-Vargas, E. A., Cao, H., Liang,
>> > Y.,
>> > >>> Li, J., & O’Brien, L. T. (2016). Still misused after all these
>> years?
>> > A
>> > >>> re-evaluation of the uses of Bronfenbrenner’s bioecological theory
>> of
>> > >> human
>> > >>> development. *Journal of Family Theory and Review*, *8,* 427–445.
>> doi:
>> > >>> 10.1111/jftr.12165.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Cheers,
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Jon
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> ~~~~~~~~~~~
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Jonathan Tudge
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Professor
>> > >>> Office: 155 Stone
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Our work on gratitude: http://morethanthanks.wp.uncg.edu/
>> > >>>
>> > >>> A new book just published: Tudge, J. & Freitas, L. (Eds.) Developing
>> > >>> gratitude in children and adolescents
>> > >>> <https://www.uncg.edu/hdf/faculty/tudge/books/dev-
>> > >> gratitude-in-children-and-adolescents-flyer.pdf>,
>> > >>> Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press
>> > >>>
>> > >>> My web site:http://www.uncg.edu/hdf/faculty/tudge
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Mailing address:
>> > >>> 248 Stone Building
>> > >>> Department of Human Development and Family Studies
>> > >>> PO Box 26170
>> > >>> The University of North Carolina at Greensboro
>> > >>> Greensboro, NC 27402-6170
>> > >>> USA
>> > >>>
>> > >>> phone (336) 223-6181
>> > >>> fax (336) 334-5076
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 6:20 PM, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:
>> > >>>
>> > >>>> Hi Jon --
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> Nice to see your voice!
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> I only have Urie's 2005 collection, *Making Human Beings Human, *to
>> > >> hand. I
>> > >>>> checked it out
>> > >>>> to see if the terms activity and context appeared there. Only sort
>> of!
>> > >>>> Activity is in the index, but context is not (!). I attach two
>> pages
>> > >> from
>> > >>>> the book for those interested (and able to read my amateur
>> > >>>> photos). Here it seems that activity and context coincide at the
>> micro
>> > >>>> level, but perhaps only there?
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> Concerning embedded circles and context. It turns out that the
>> person
>> > >> who
>> > >>>> induced Sheila and me to write a textbook on human development was
>> U.
>> > >>>> Bronfenbrenner. And this same U.B. discussed with us how to
>> represent
>> > >> his
>> > >>>> perspective circa 1985, pretty early in the task of writing the
>> first
>> > >>>> edition. His use of matroshki (embedded dolls) as a metaphor and
>> his
>> > >>>> rhetoric at the time (and in 2005 as well) invites
>> > >>>> a concentric circles representation. We discussed other ways of
>> trying
>> > >> to
>> > >>>> represent the idea and he
>> > >>>> said that our representation came as close as he could figure out.
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> In the 2005 book he refers to my work as combining a Vygotskian
>> notion
>> > >> of
>> > >>>> context with an anthropological one (p. 126), and uses the term
>> > >> "ecological
>> > >>>> context." I assume that most of my Russian colleagues would argue
>> that
>> > >> LSV
>> > >>>> used the concept of "social situation of development," not
>> context. I
>> > >> have
>> > >>>> no idea how he would respond to Yrjo's declaration that the
>> activity
>> > is
>> > >> the
>> > >>>> context, but it does not seem too far off from what is written on
>> the
>> > >> pages
>> > >>>> attached.
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> Perhaps someone on xmca who is skilled at searching texts in
>> cyrillic
>> > >> could
>> > >>>> search for his use of the term, context. I have always been curious
>> > >> about
>> > >>>> what such a search would turn up, but lack the skill
>> > >>>> to carry out the query.
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> And perhaps you have written something about the mistake of
>> > interpreting
>> > >>>> U.B.'s notion of contexts using embedded circles we could learn
>> from??
>> > >>>> Certainly the passages on p. 46 remind me of the work of Hedegaard
>> and
>> > >>>> Fleer, who also draw upon U.B.
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> mike
>> > >>>>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > > <PPCT (Tudge, 2008, p. 69).pptx>
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
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