From ulvi.icil@gmail.com Thu Feb 1 00:40:07 2018 From: ulvi.icil@gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?VWx2aSDEsMOnaWw=?=) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2018 10:40:07 +0200 Subject: [Xmca-l] Time management for children and adolescents In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I think millions of parents struggle to control the time spent on mobile phones, tablets, games etc. This control mechanism usually works through spoken communication. "Leave it just now I said to you" etc "Only five minutes more mum please" Surely, I do not claim that this is a discovery even the guidance sections of the best schools can not propose a suitable and effective tool for managing this process. However, there is a unique one: A pen and a paper and the self-writing of the child or adolescent of the beginning.and ending time for such use. Agreed mutually upon a pre-determined daily time to be spent on such devices, both the child and the parent is able to monitor the daily situation without engaging in a disagreement about how much time is spent etc. A Vygotskian way to deal with, isn't it? Ulvi P.s. Well I know and do not underestimate how clever are these little human beings in paralysing any parental control mechanism! From greg.a.thompson@gmail.com Thu Feb 1 09:42:55 2018 From: greg.a.thompson@gmail.com (Greg Thompson) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2018 10:42:55 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Bateson on thinking relatively In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm with Jon: Why was this guy chopping at this tree in the first place? (and where did he get the axe? and the tree, did he plant it?). These are all things that can greatly affect the nature of what goes on inside the man-axe-tree circuit (e.g., the nature and deliberateness of the swinging will depend on the physical properties of the axe but also on the properties of the man's motivations for hacking down the tree...). For me, this suggests a turn to some Bronfenbrenner-like theory in which the circuit that Bateson/Martin depicted is nested within some larger set of circuit(s). Or something. -greg On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 7:13 PM, Jonathan Tudge wrote: > This is, of course, a great quote, and not for nothing is the word > "ecology" found in the title of Bateson's book. > > True, when trying to explain the phenomenon of the axe cutting the tree, > ALL of the things he mentioned are important, and all are interconnected. > But that's not very helpful from a developmental point of view. If I want > to do a better job cutting trees there are some things that there's not > much point me trying to work on (in particular, I don't know what I'd need > to do to work on my central nervous system). But I could get a sharper axe > (or by a better one), because the sharpness is one thing that influences > the cutting. Influences, but clearly doesn't cause. I might also work on > my muscles, as they also influence the cutting. Perhaps getting better > glasses would help. Practicing my skills would be another useful factor > (influence?). In other words, if we want to make some changes it would be > worth considering all these as mutually relevant influences, and maybe I > work on them separately (going to the gym to increase muscle strength, to > the opticians for glasses), even while at the same time realizing that > they're all constitutive of the whole process. > > There again, I'd also better think about the broader influences--am I > cutting wood to put into my fireplace to burn for its aesthetic nature, as > my heating system at home is fine? Or is this a skill that's really > important in my cultural group because without it I'm not going to be able > to construct my home, or be able to survive the winter, in which case I'm > likely to be learning how to wield the axe in the company of others who are > more competent. > > So, in response to Mike's earlier point in response to me...I don't think > that "influence" means "cause." And I think that when considering emergent > properties we have to realize both that those properties can never be > reduced to the things that brought them into being, but it's worth > considering how A might be influencing B even while recognizing that some > of that influence has already been in turn influenced by B (and C, D, E, > etc.). > > And getting back to Bronfenbrenner, although he's typically viewed as > someone who viewed context (different, though interwoven, layers of > context, Andy) as causal, his theory is as ecological (or bioecological) as > Bateson's. > > Cheers, > > Jon > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Jonathan Tudge > > Professor > Office: 155 Stone > > Our work on gratitude: http://morethanthanks.wp.uncg.edu/ > > A new book just published: Tudge, J. & Freitas, L. (Eds.) Developing > gratitude in children and adolescents > gratitude-in-children-and-adolescents-flyer.pdf>, > Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press > > My web site:http://www.uncg.edu/hdf/faculty/tudge > > Mailing address: > 248 Stone Building > Department of Human Development and Family Studies > PO Box 26170 > The University of North Carolina at Greensboro > Greensboro, NC 27402-6170 > USA > > phone (336) 223-6181 > fax (336) 334-5076 > > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 9:38 AM, mike cole wrote: > > > Darned if I did not find that Bateson passage online! Amazing. > > Here it is from *Steps to an Ecology of Mind.* > > > > mike > > --------------\ > > > > Consider a tree and a man and an axe. We observe that the axe flies > through > > the air and makes certain gashes in a pre-existing cut in the side of the > > tree. If we now want to explain this set of phenomena, we shall be > > concerned with differences in the cut face of the tree, differences in > the > > retina of the man, differences in the central nervous system, differences > > in his different neural messages, differences in the behaviour of his > > muscles, difference in how the axe flies, to the differences which the > axe > > then makes on the face of the tree. Our explanation will go round and > round > > that circuit. If you want to explain or understand anything in human > > behaviour, you are always dealing with total circuits, completed > circuits. > > (Bateson, 1972, p. 433) > > > > > > > > Later in the same paper he writes about how difficult it is to adopt this > > epistemology: > > > > > > > > I can stand here and I can give you a reasoned exposition of this matter; > > but if I am cutting down a tree, I still think ?Gregory Bateson? is > cutting > > down a tree. I am cutting down the tree. ?Myself? is to me still an > > excessively concrete object, different from the rest of what I have been > > calling ?mind?. > > > > > > > > The step to realizing ? to making habitual ? the other way of thinking ? > so > > that one naturally thinks that way when one reaches out for a glass of > > water or cuts down a tree ? that step is not an easy one. > > > > > > .... Once we have made this shift, our perspective fundamentally changes. > > We firstly start focusing on relationships, flows and patterns; and > > secondly realize that we are part of any field we are studying. > > > -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson From glassman.13@osu.edu Thu Feb 1 10:14:07 2018 From: glassman.13@osu.edu (Glassman, Michael) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2018 18:14:07 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Bateson on thinking relatively In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953ACDF45@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> Hi Greg, Jon I don't know, it seems to me wondering where the axe came from kind of misses the point of what Bateson is trying to say. I also wonder if it might be better to understand what is going on between the use of the axe as a tool and the chopping down of the tree. You know for a long time I misinterpreted the title of the book Steps to an Ecology of Mind. I thought, because I was trained as a psychologist which sort of put blinders on me, that he was describing how we could understand the way the human mind worked. Over the course of year, more so in the last few years, I began to realize he was describing something completely different. Mind of course is not human mind but some larger system (almost spiritual) that we live within and sets us up on a trajectory of behavior. Steps are the sometimes continuous feedback loops that change us so we become more adapted to the needs of the ecology created by the Mind, in turn also changing the ecology of the Mind. In his other book Mind and Nature he has a great metaphor - the bumps we experience in our lives that force us to re-adjust. So in a sense I think Bateson is making a developmental argument. So where did the axe come from? Do we really need to know that (I think cybernetics in general echoes Pragmatism in that it focuses on the activities we are engaged in at the moment). What the person wielding the act will do is of course based in part on who he is but also on the feedback he is getting from the purposeful activity of cutting down the tree. I once tried to cut down a tree. I didn't get very far. In other words the feedback was "the tree is winning!" I threw down my axe and said probably out loud, "This is stupid" and went back to camp and ate a peanut butter sandwich. But what if you wanted to help me, or I wanted to help myself, cut down the true. What is I wanted to jigger with the feedback loop. Then I have to remember that I am in the feedback loop as well as the action of the axe and the action of the tree. Meaning I can't say to myself, oh there must be a better way to cut down this tree. Let me go look at the research on tree cutting. Manipulating my capabilities is not that easy, because while I am trying to manipulate the feedback loop I am in the feedback loop, I am an integral part of me. If we take that say and apply it to teaching. I am trying to teach somebody how to do an equation. This is rough but the person I am teaching is the axe and the equation is the tree. I think perhaps there is a system for this. Even a great system, one that takes all the things that Jon and Gregg talk about into account. But what I can't leave out of this is that I am also part of the system. A system that is being overseen by the larger Mind. I don't have as much ability to manipulate outcomes of the system as I think I do because I am in the system. As the second part of the quote Mike cites this is incredibly hard to do, a hard "step" to take even if you understand and recognize the bump that you are facing in trying to educate this student. The student is on a boat riding the rapids created by the ecology of the Mind. You aren't on the banks of the river figuring out how to steer it and shouting out directions to the student. You are in the boat with the student, and until you realize that you will never successfully navigate. Perhaps I am still misunderstanding, just in a different way. But this is my thinking based on my latest readings of Bateson and the people he was hanging out with. Michael -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Greg Thompson Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2018 12:43 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Bateson on thinking relatively I'm with Jon: Why was this guy chopping at this tree in the first place? (and where did he get the axe? and the tree, did he plant it?). These are all things that can greatly affect the nature of what goes on inside the man-axe-tree circuit (e.g., the nature and deliberateness of the swinging will depend on the physical properties of the axe but also on the properties of the man's motivations for hacking down the tree...). For me, this suggests a turn to some Bronfenbrenner-like theory in which the circuit that Bateson/Martin depicted is nested within some larger set of circuit(s). Or something. -greg On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 7:13 PM, Jonathan Tudge wrote: > This is, of course, a great quote, and not for nothing is the word > "ecology" found in the title of Bateson's book. > > True, when trying to explain the phenomenon of the axe cutting the > tree, ALL of the things he mentioned are important, and all are interconnected. > But that's not very helpful from a developmental point of view. If I > want to do a better job cutting trees there are some things that > there's not much point me trying to work on (in particular, I don't > know what I'd need to do to work on my central nervous system). But I > could get a sharper axe (or by a better one), because the sharpness is > one thing that influences the cutting. Influences, but clearly > doesn't cause. I might also work on my muscles, as they also > influence the cutting. Perhaps getting better glasses would help. > Practicing my skills would be another useful factor (influence?). In > other words, if we want to make some changes it would be worth > considering all these as mutually relevant influences, and maybe I > work on them separately (going to the gym to increase muscle strength, > to the opticians for glasses), even while at the same time realizing that they're all constitutive of the whole process. > > There again, I'd also better think about the broader influences--am I > cutting wood to put into my fireplace to burn for its aesthetic > nature, as my heating system at home is fine? Or is this a skill > that's really important in my cultural group because without it I'm > not going to be able to construct my home, or be able to survive the > winter, in which case I'm likely to be learning how to wield the axe > in the company of others who are more competent. > > So, in response to Mike's earlier point in response to me...I don't > think that "influence" means "cause." And I think that when > considering emergent properties we have to realize both that those > properties can never be reduced to the things that brought them into > being, but it's worth considering how A might be influencing B even > while recognizing that some of that influence has already been in turn > influenced by B (and C, D, E, etc.). > > And getting back to Bronfenbrenner, although he's typically viewed as > someone who viewed context (different, though interwoven, layers of > context, Andy) as causal, his theory is as ecological (or > bioecological) as Bateson's. > > Cheers, > > Jon > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Jonathan Tudge > > Professor > Office: 155 Stone > > Our work on gratitude: http://morethanthanks.wp.uncg.edu/ > > A new book just published: Tudge, J. & Freitas, L. (Eds.) Developing > gratitude in children and adolescents > gratitude-in-children-and-adolescents-flyer.pdf>, > Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press > > My web site:http://www.uncg.edu/hdf/faculty/tudge > > Mailing address: > 248 Stone Building > Department of Human Development and Family Studies PO Box 26170 The > University of North Carolina at Greensboro Greensboro, NC 27402-6170 > USA > > phone (336) 223-6181 > fax (336) 334-5076 > > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 9:38 AM, mike cole wrote: > > > Darned if I did not find that Bateson passage online! Amazing. > > Here it is from *Steps to an Ecology of Mind.* > > > > mike > > --------------\ > > > > Consider a tree and a man and an axe. We observe that the axe flies > through > > the air and makes certain gashes in a pre-existing cut in the side > > of the tree. If we now want to explain this set of phenomena, we > > shall be concerned with differences in the cut face of the tree, > > differences in > the > > retina of the man, differences in the central nervous system, > > differences in his different neural messages, differences in the > > behaviour of his muscles, difference in how the axe flies, to the > > differences which the > axe > > then makes on the face of the tree. Our explanation will go round > > and > round > > that circuit. If you want to explain or understand anything in human > > behaviour, you are always dealing with total circuits, completed > circuits. > > (Bateson, 1972, p. 433) > > > > > > > > Later in the same paper he writes about how difficult it is to adopt > > this > > epistemology: > > > > > > > > I can stand here and I can give you a reasoned exposition of this > > matter; but if I am cutting down a tree, I still think ?Gregory > > Bateson? is > cutting > > down a tree. I am cutting down the tree. ?Myself? is to me still an > > excessively concrete object, different from the rest of what I have > > been calling ?mind?. > > > > > > > > The step to realizing ? to making habitual ? the other way of > > thinking ? > so > > that one naturally thinks that way when one reaches out for a glass > > of water or cuts down a tree ? that step is not an easy one. > > > > > > .... Once we have made this shift, our perspective fundamentally changes. > > We firstly start focusing on relationships, flows and patterns; and > > secondly realize that we are part of any field we are studying. > > > -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson From Peg.Griffin@att.net Thu Feb 1 10:33:10 2018 From: Peg.Griffin@att.net (Peg Griffin) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2018 13:33:10 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Bateson on thinking relatively In-Reply-To: References: <07B013F7-C8CE-4AE3-935C-AF5B04DBC71E@cantab.net> Message-ID: <00b201d39b8b$1ce58680$56b09380$@att.net> Here's a little link to a Guardian story that might be interesting: https://www.theguardian.com/education/2018/feb/01/schools-across-the-us-exposed-to-air-pollution-hildren-are-facing-risks It's the sort of thing that might be useful for scrabbling and clawing to the concrete. Somehow a unidirectional "rising to the concrete" seems a tad inaccurate, pale, etc., don't you think? Peg -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2018 11:26 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Bateson on thinking relatively Gibson is clearly relevant, but so is Bronfenbrenner. He was struggling to overcome the idea of a one way, top town, Outter?->inner causation in the direction that Jon is urging, I believe. The passage cited in my note with this subject line was part of his unease with concentric circles. This is reflected in UB?s critique of the use of multiple regression. (But multiple regression can be a useful tool. It was one of the methods used in the Scribner/Cole research on Vai literacy) Mike On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 7:44 AM WEBSTER, DAVID S. wrote: > The problem here is that you feel the need to put selects in scare quotes. > I am all for Dewey but I am not sure you are right about Gibson not > being transactional but where Gibson had got to when he died was > already a hard enough sell. A good topic to pursue through > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto: > xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Wolff-Michael Roth > Sent: 31 January 2018 15:26 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Bateson on thinking relatively > > But Gibson is not transactional in the way Bateson is. For Bateson (or > Dewey or others), there is no "natural" affordance. In other words, > the human also would be the affordance to the door knob, not merely > the door knob an affordance to humans. The door knob "selects" humans > over other animals... The environment "samples" the individual as much > as the individual "samples" the environment... > > > On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 7:14 AM, WEBSTER, DAVID S. < > d.s.webster@durham.ac.uk > > wrote: > > > The perception-action cycle has been a topic of debate in the > > Gibsonian literature since the early -mid 1980s i.e. just after > > Gibson died in 1979 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Martin Packer > > Sent: 31 January 2018 14:56 > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Bateson on thinking relatively > > > > I?m struck by the similarity between Bateson?s description and the > > notion floating around in neuroscience of a ?perception-action cycle,? > > in which brain, body, and environment are each components in a > > circular > process. > > > > The perception-action cycle is a circular cybernetic flow of > > information processing between the organism and its environment in a > > sequence of goal-directed actions. An action of the organism causes > > an environmental change that will be processed by sensory systems, > > which will produce signals to inform the next action, and so on. The > > perception-action cycle is of prime importance for the adaptive > > success of a temporally extended gestalt of behavior, where each > > action is contingent on the effects of the previous one. The > > perception-action cycle operates at all levels of the central > > nervous system. Simple, automatic, and well rehearsed behaviors > > engage only the lower levels of the perception-action cycle, > > whereas, for sensorimotor integration, the cycle runs through the > > spinal cord and > subcortical structures. > > > > To the extent that deliberate, reflexive planning becomes part of > > the cycle on its highest levels, the sense of being the initiator of > > action can be hard to resist. But it?s just the walnut on the cupcake. > > > > Here?s a diagram, though it?ll be probably be removed, so here?s the > > link too? > > > > > Cy > > cle_ > > files/image295.jpg> > > > > > > > > Martin > > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 31, 2018, at 9:38 AM, mike cole wrote: > > > > > > Darned if I did not find that Bateson passage online! Amazing. > > > Here it is from *Steps to an Ecology of Mind.* > > > > > > mike > > > --------------\ > > > > > > Consider a tree and a man and an axe. We observe that the axe > > > flies through the air and makes certain gashes in a pre-existing > > > cut in the side of the tree. If we now want to explain this set of > > > phenomena, we shall be concerned with differences in the cut face > > > of the tree, differences in the retina of the man, differences in > > > the central nervous system, differences in his different neural > > > messages, differences in the behaviour of his muscles, difference > > > in how the axe flies, to the differences which the axe then makes > > > on the face of the tree. Our explanation will go round and round > > > that circuit. If you want to explain or understand anything in > > > human behaviour, you are > > always dealing with total circuits, completed circuits. > > > (Bateson, 1972, p. 433) > > > > > > > > > > > > Later in the same paper he writes about how difficult it is to > > > adopt this > > > epistemology: > > > > > > > > > > > > I can stand here and I can give you a reasoned exposition of this > > > matter; but if I am cutting down a tree, I still think ?Gregory > > > Bateson? is cutting down a tree. I am cutting down the tree. ?Myself? > > > is to me still an excessively concrete object, different from the > > > rest of what I have been calling ?mind?. > > > > > > > > > > > > The step to realizing ? to making habitual ? the other way of > > > thinking ? so that one naturally thinks that way when one reaches > > > out for a glass of water or cuts down a tree ? that step is not an > easy one. > > > > > > > > > .... Once we have made this shift, our perspective fundamentally > changes. > > > We firstly start focusing on relationships, flows and patterns; > > > and secondly realize that we are part of any field we are studying. > > > > > > > > From smago@uga.edu Thu Feb 1 10:44:41 2018 From: smago@uga.edu (Peter Smagorinsky) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2018 18:44:41 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Bateson on thinking relatively In-Reply-To: <00b201d39b8b$1ce58680$56b09380$@att.net> References: <07B013F7-C8CE-4AE3-935C-AF5B04DBC71E@cantab.net> <00b201d39b8b$1ce58680$56b09380$@att.net> Message-ID: Thanks Peg, this is such an old problem. Jonathan Kozol's Savage Inequalities detailed the issues almost 30 years ago, and they weren?t new then. Here's a timely story from the Atlanta Journal-Constitution this morning. Guess who'll attend this school? Rich white kids? DeKalb faults AJC story questioning school site, but will its rebuttal reassure parents? By Maureen Downey January 31, 2018 | Filed in: Ajc-opinion, DeKalb Schools, Politicsajc, School safety, Students The DeKalb County School District objected to an AJC story that expressed concerns over plans to build the new Smoke Rise Elementary School down the road from a hazardous materials manufacturer. So, the district created a ?Setting the Record Straight? page today where it explained: DCSD will not place a school in a location that will be harmful to students. Prior to the purchase of the property, the district conducted an extensive environmental review of the site via a third-party professional engineering firm, Matrix Engineering Group, Inc. The engineer?s finding, based on the firm?s Risk Hazard Analysis and Evaluation, was that the site is suitable for the proposed Smoke Rise Elementary School provided that the mitigation measures listed below be implemented. The district is attempting to allay what it deems unwarranted fears prompted by the AJC story, but I wonder if the effort could backfire. I thought about these ?mitigation measures? in the context of buying a lot to build a house and discovering it?s near a hazardous materials manufacturer. The builder reassures you the house will be safe as long as you do these nine things. Here is the list from DeKalb?s site. -Minimize the use of large glass windows (max. 6 foot and 8-foot-high) for a portion of the facility. -Utilize shatterproof glass windows for the building?s southern elevations. -All exterior walls should be of steel reinforced masonry construction with brick veneer. -Locate the buildings as far away from Hugh Howell Road as possible. -Create a barrier along the southern boundary of the property such as an architectural wall. The wall should be a reinforced masonry or concrete wall with a minimum height of four (4) feet. -Design of air handling and ventilation systems should incorporate engineering controls to prevent intrusion of hazardous airborne contaminant. {Question from me: What about hazardous airborne contaminants when the kids play outside?} -Prepare an emergency preparedness plan to address the potential hazards. -Prepare an evacuation plan consistent with the type of hazards identified to provide for efficient and timely evacuation of the buildings in case of an emergency. -A fence is recommended on all sides of the property. After seeing this list, would you tell your builder, ?Let?s go?? Or, ?Let?s go somewhere else?? Would you be comfortable sending a child to a school on this site? -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Peg Griffin Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2018 1:33 PM To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Bateson on thinking relatively Here's a little link to a Guardian story that might be interesting: https://www.theguardian.com/education/2018/feb/01/schools-across-the-us-exposed-to-air-pollution-hildren-are-facing-risks It's the sort of thing that might be useful for scrabbling and clawing to the concrete. Somehow a unidirectional "rising to the concrete" seems a tad inaccurate, pale, etc., don't you think? Peg -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2018 11:26 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Bateson on thinking relatively Gibson is clearly relevant, but so is Bronfenbrenner. He was struggling to overcome the idea of a one way, top town, Outter?->inner causation in the direction that Jon is urging, I believe. The passage cited in my note with this subject line was part of his unease with concentric circles. This is reflected in UB?s critique of the use of multiple regression. (But multiple regression can be a useful tool. It was one of the methods used in the Scribner/Cole research on Vai literacy) Mike On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 7:44 AM WEBSTER, DAVID S. > wrote: > The problem here is that you feel the need to put selects in scare quotes. > I am all for Dewey but I am not sure you are right about Gibson not > being transactional but where Gibson had got to when he died was > already a hard enough sell. A good topic to pursue through > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto: > xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Wolff-Michael Roth > Sent: 31 January 2018 15:26 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Bateson on thinking relatively > > But Gibson is not transactional in the way Bateson is. For Bateson (or > Dewey or others), there is no "natural" affordance. In other words, > the human also would be the affordance to the door knob, not merely > the door knob an affordance to humans. The door knob "selects" humans > over other animals... The environment "samples" the individual as much > as the individual "samples" the environment... > > > On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 7:14 AM, WEBSTER, DAVID S. < > d.s.webster@durham.ac.uk > > wrote: > > > The perception-action cycle has been a topic of debate in the > > Gibsonian literature since the early -mid 1980s i.e. just after > > Gibson died in 1979 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Martin Packer > > Sent: 31 January 2018 14:56 > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Bateson on thinking relatively > > > > I?m struck by the similarity between Bateson?s description and the > > notion floating around in neuroscience of a ?perception-action cycle,? > > in which brain, body, and environment are each components in a > > circular > process. > > > > The perception-action cycle is a circular cybernetic flow of > > information processing between the organism and its environment in a > > sequence of goal-directed actions. An action of the organism causes > > an environmental change that will be processed by sensory systems, > > which will produce signals to inform the next action, and so on. The > > perception-action cycle is of prime importance for the adaptive > > success of a temporally extended gestalt of behavior, where each > > action is contingent on the effects of the previous one. The > > perception-action cycle operates at all levels of the central > > nervous system. Simple, automatic, and well rehearsed behaviors > > engage only the lower levels of the perception-action cycle, > > whereas, for sensorimotor integration, the cycle runs through the > > spinal cord and > subcortical structures. > > > > To the extent that deliberate, reflexive planning becomes part of > > the cycle on its highest levels, the sense of being the initiator of > > action can be hard to resist. But it?s just the walnut on the cupcake. > > > > Here?s a diagram, though it?ll be probably be removed, so here?s the > > link too? > > > > > Cy > > cle_ > > files/image295.jpg> > > > > > > > > Martin > > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 31, 2018, at 9:38 AM, mike cole > wrote: > > > > > > Darned if I did not find that Bateson passage online! Amazing. > > > Here it is from *Steps to an Ecology of Mind.* > > > > > > mike > > > --------------\ > > > > > > Consider a tree and a man and an axe. We observe that the axe > > > flies through the air and makes certain gashes in a pre-existing > > > cut in the side of the tree. If we now want to explain this set of > > > phenomena, we shall be concerned with differences in the cut face > > > of the tree, differences in the retina of the man, differences in > > > the central nervous system, differences in his different neural > > > messages, differences in the behaviour of his muscles, difference > > > in how the axe flies, to the differences which the axe then makes > > > on the face of the tree. Our explanation will go round and round > > > that circuit. If you want to explain or understand anything in > > > human behaviour, you are > > always dealing with total circuits, completed circuits. > > > (Bateson, 1972, p. 433) > > > > > > > > > > > > Later in the same paper he writes about how difficult it is to > > > adopt this > > > epistemology: > > > > > > > > > > > > I can stand here and I can give you a reasoned exposition of this > > > matter; but if I am cutting down a tree, I still think ?Gregory > > > Bateson? is cutting down a tree. I am cutting down the tree. ?Myself? > > > is to me still an excessively concrete object, different from the > > > rest of what I have been calling ?mind?. > > > > > > > > > > > > The step to realizing ? to making habitual ? the other way of > > > thinking ? so that one naturally thinks that way when one reaches > > > out for a glass of water or cuts down a tree ? that step is not an > easy one. > > > > > > > > > .... Once we have made this shift, our perspective fundamentally > changes. > > > We firstly start focusing on relationships, flows and patterns; > > > and secondly realize that we are part of any field we are studying. > > > > > > > > From dkellogg60@gmail.com Thu Feb 1 13:25:32 2018 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2018 06:25:32 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "Context" or Object of activity In-Reply-To: <5ee667fe-a3a6-1291-af34-7a5acadf5669@mira.net> References: <0dc79f2d-1447-51b1-25f8-efc653d43a46@mira.net> <1334879954.344775.1517399665156@mail.yahoo.com> <297459230.708633.1517440425783@mail.yahoo.com> <1517447401909.3673@iped.uio.no> <5ee667fe-a3a6-1291-af34-7a5acadf5669@mira.net> Message-ID: The late Leo van Lier, who more or less single-handedly created an "ecological applied linguistics" after he moved to the USA from Peru, used to tell a story about getting his eldest child, a boy who grew up speaking Spanish and Quechua, to speak an English sentence. Children who do not know what language can be easily trained to repeat meaningless phrases out of context (I have a lot of data on this), but children who already speak one language tend to be quite careful about speaking a new one (and they seem to be particularly careful about who gets to hear what language). So the boy refused to speak any English at all for a full year. One day Leo was in a supermarket buying breakfast cereal, and the boy was riding in the shopping cart. They passed another cart with another child and exaclty the same brand of breakfast cereal. The boy pointed to the other cart and then to their own and distinctly said "That...on that". I don't see how the context of "that" is unbounded, Andy. Yes, the cereal in question bears my name, but no, the relationship is not close, or not close enough to do me any good, as my father used to say over breakfast. But I don't see why I cannot draw a boundary between the breakfast cereal and my own name (as Bronfenbrenner does) and say that the box and the cart are part of the context of situation and the name and the Road to Wellville are not. To say that "context" in this situation is an "unbounded abstraction" is like saying that today's weather is an unbounded abstraction. Weather, like any other context of situation, is a context bounded by text. One of the boundaries that text places on context is distinguishing a context of situation from a context of culture. That, as I understand it, is the distinction between a micro-context and a macro-context, to use Bronfenbrenner's labels. Or, if you like, the distinction between weather and climate. David Kellogg Recent Article in *Mind, Culture, and Activity* 24 (4) 'Metaphoric, Metonymic, Eclectic, or Dialectic? A Commentary on ?Neoformation: A Dialectical Approach to Developmental Change?' Free e-print available (for a short time only) at http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/YAWPBtmPM8knMCNg6sS6/full On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 10:39 AM, Andy Blunden wrote: > As Mike has pointed out on numerous occasions the "context" of even the > most modest project or action by an individual, may turn out to be a > geopolitical/historical event. There is no boundary which can be draw such > that 'nothing outside this boundary counts as context'. So, when a theorist > refers to 'context', either they have privileged God-like prescience or > they mean by "context" the entire, unbounded totality of events in the > world during or prior to this action. So to refer to this unbounded > totality with the term "context" and join it to either the research subject > or within the "unit of analysis" is to utilise an "unbounded abstraction." > > > The issue raised here is not whether analysis is impossible of course, but > simply, what is the appropriate methodology for researching unbounded > totalities? > > > Andy > ------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > On 1/02/2018 12:09 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > > .... > > > That said, I am very sympathetic to the idea that "context", if it > is external in the sense of arbitrary, does not add much to our > understanding. But Andy, how does your point about "unbounded abstraction" > connect to this? > > > Alfredo > ------------------------------ > > > From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Thu Feb 1 14:58:33 2018 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2018 22:58:33 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Bateson on thinking relatively In-Reply-To: <00b201d39b8b$1ce58680$56b09380$@att.net> References: <07B013F7-C8CE-4AE3-935C-AF5B04DBC71E@cantab.net> , <00b201d39b8b$1ce58680$56b09380$@att.net> Message-ID: <1517525912993.22606@iped.uio.no> That's, aside from a devastating truth, a totally relevant case to challenge ideas of "unbounded" context, isn't it? For yes, it is a wide context the one plaguing children (and everyone else) in schools with pollution, but it is not just the whole world around but rather a quite definite form of economical and political organization, which happens to be global. Alfredo ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Peg Griffin Sent: 01 February 2018 19:33 To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Bateson on thinking relatively Here's a little link to a Guardian story that might be interesting: https://www.theguardian.com/education/2018/feb/01/schools-across-the-us-exposed-to-air-pollution-hildren-are-facing-risks It's the sort of thing that might be useful for scrabbling and clawing to the concrete. Somehow a unidirectional "rising to the concrete" seems a tad inaccurate, pale, etc., don't you think? Peg -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2018 11:26 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Bateson on thinking relatively Gibson is clearly relevant, but so is Bronfenbrenner. He was struggling to overcome the idea of a one way, top town, Outter?->inner causation in the direction that Jon is urging, I believe. The passage cited in my note with this subject line was part of his unease with concentric circles. This is reflected in UB?s critique of the use of multiple regression. (But multiple regression can be a useful tool. It was one of the methods used in the Scribner/Cole research on Vai literacy) Mike On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 7:44 AM WEBSTER, DAVID S. wrote: > The problem here is that you feel the need to put selects in scare quotes. > I am all for Dewey but I am not sure you are right about Gibson not > being transactional but where Gibson had got to when he died was > already a hard enough sell. A good topic to pursue through > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto: > xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Wolff-Michael Roth > Sent: 31 January 2018 15:26 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Bateson on thinking relatively > > But Gibson is not transactional in the way Bateson is. For Bateson (or > Dewey or others), there is no "natural" affordance. In other words, > the human also would be the affordance to the door knob, not merely > the door knob an affordance to humans. The door knob "selects" humans > over other animals... The environment "samples" the individual as much > as the individual "samples" the environment... > > > On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 7:14 AM, WEBSTER, DAVID S. < > d.s.webster@durham.ac.uk > > wrote: > > > The perception-action cycle has been a topic of debate in the > > Gibsonian literature since the early -mid 1980s i.e. just after > > Gibson died in 1979 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Martin Packer > > Sent: 31 January 2018 14:56 > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Bateson on thinking relatively > > > > I?m struck by the similarity between Bateson?s description and the > > notion floating around in neuroscience of a ?perception-action cycle,? > > in which brain, body, and environment are each components in a > > circular > process. > > > > The perception-action cycle is a circular cybernetic flow of > > information processing between the organism and its environment in a > > sequence of goal-directed actions. An action of the organism causes > > an environmental change that will be processed by sensory systems, > > which will produce signals to inform the next action, and so on. The > > perception-action cycle is of prime importance for the adaptive > > success of a temporally extended gestalt of behavior, where each > > action is contingent on the effects of the previous one. The > > perception-action cycle operates at all levels of the central > > nervous system. Simple, automatic, and well rehearsed behaviors > > engage only the lower levels of the perception-action cycle, > > whereas, for sensorimotor integration, the cycle runs through the > > spinal cord and > subcortical structures. > > > > To the extent that deliberate, reflexive planning becomes part of > > the cycle on its highest levels, the sense of being the initiator of > > action can be hard to resist. But it?s just the walnut on the cupcake. > > > > Here?s a diagram, though it?ll be probably be removed, so here?s the > > link too? > > > > > Cy > > cle_ > > files/image295.jpg> > > > > > > > > Martin > > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 31, 2018, at 9:38 AM, mike cole wrote: > > > > > > Darned if I did not find that Bateson passage online! Amazing. > > > Here it is from *Steps to an Ecology of Mind.* > > > > > > mike > > > --------------\ > > > > > > Consider a tree and a man and an axe. We observe that the axe > > > flies through the air and makes certain gashes in a pre-existing > > > cut in the side of the tree. If we now want to explain this set of > > > phenomena, we shall be concerned with differences in the cut face > > > of the tree, differences in the retina of the man, differences in > > > the central nervous system, differences in his different neural > > > messages, differences in the behaviour of his muscles, difference > > > in how the axe flies, to the differences which the axe then makes > > > on the face of the tree. Our explanation will go round and round > > > that circuit. If you want to explain or understand anything in > > > human behaviour, you are > > always dealing with total circuits, completed circuits. > > > (Bateson, 1972, p. 433) > > > > > > > > > > > > Later in the same paper he writes about how difficult it is to > > > adopt this > > > epistemology: > > > > > > > > > > > > I can stand here and I can give you a reasoned exposition of this > > > matter; but if I am cutting down a tree, I still think ?Gregory > > > Bateson? is cutting down a tree. I am cutting down the tree. ?Myself? > > > is to me still an excessively concrete object, different from the > > > rest of what I have been calling ?mind?. > > > > > > > > > > > > The step to realizing ? to making habitual ? the other way of > > > thinking ? so that one naturally thinks that way when one reaches > > > out for a glass of water or cuts down a tree ? that step is not an > easy one. > > > > > > > > > .... Once we have made this shift, our perspective fundamentally > changes. > > > We firstly start focusing on relationships, flows and patterns; > > > and secondly realize that we are part of any field we are studying. > > > > > > > > From ablunden@mira.net Thu Feb 1 16:07:10 2018 From: ablunden@mira.net (Andy Blunden) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2018 11:07:10 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "Context" or Object of activity In-Reply-To: References: <0dc79f2d-1447-51b1-25f8-efc653d43a46@mira.net> <1334879954.344775.1517399665156@mail.yahoo.com> <297459230.708633.1517440425783@mail.yahoo.com> <1517447401909.3673@iped.uio.no> <5ee667fe-a3a6-1291-af34-7a5acadf5669@mira.net> Message-ID: I can't follow your message at all, David, but perhaps a few words of explanation will help. Faced with, for example, a design experiment like 5thD, of course, the project leaders and researchers are aware of the importance of the context of the project and know that the success or early failure of the project will depend on events coming out of an unbounded context (s well as the resilience and self-sufficiency of the project). The problem is (1) how to conceptualise this unbounded context. (2) If you want to use the method of analysis by units, you ask yourself what is the relation between a unit of analysis and the context of the research. But (2) answers (1). (2) In designing the project you will analyse the unbounded context by means of analysis by units; specifically, you would understand that the world is made up of projects. These projects can be conceptualised as *mediating* elements, because the project which forms the subject matter of the research has *collaborative relationships* with a range of projects (the university, the local council, etc, etc.) and these projects, when you add all of them up, are the world. Still unbounded, but by means of analysis by units you have an approach. The context is analysed in terms of its units, projects, and those projects with which the subject project collaborates are the mediating elements and are in focus. No guarantee, but a start. So (1) the context is not *included* in the "unit of analysis" but is subject to analysis by units itself. The world is not a subordinate part of one of its units. This is in fact how Mike approached the problem. Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm On 2/02/2018 8:25 AM, David Kellogg wrote: > The late Leo van Lier, who more or less single-handedly > created an "ecological applied linguistics" after he moved > to the USA from Peru, used to tell a story about getting > his eldest child, a boy who grew up speaking Spanish and > Quechua, to speak an English sentence. Children who do not > know what language can be easily trained to repeat > meaningless phrases out of context (I have a lot of data > on this), but children who already speak one language tend > to be quite careful about speaking a new one (and they > seem to be particularly careful about who gets to hear > what language). So the boy refused to speak any English at > all for a full year. One day Leo was in a supermarket > buying breakfast cereal, and the boy was riding in the > shopping cart. They passed another cart with another child > and exaclty the same brand of breakfast cereal. The boy > pointed to the other cart and then to their own and > distinctly said "That...on that". > > I don't see how the context of "that" is unbounded, Andy. > Yes, the cereal in question bears my name, but no, the > relationship is not close, or not close enough to do me > any good, as my father used to say over breakfast. But I > don't see why I cannot draw a boundary between the > breakfast cereal and my own name (as Bronfenbrenner does) > and say that the box and the cart are part of the context > of situation and the name and the Road to Wellville are > not. To say that "context" in this situation is an > "unbounded abstraction" is like saying that today's > weather is an unbounded abstraction. Weather, like any > other context of situation, is a context bounded by text. > One of the boundaries that text places on context is > distinguishing a context of situation from a context of > culture. That, as I understand it, is the distinction > between a micro-context and a macro-context, to use > Bronfenbrenner's labels. Or, if you like, the distinction > between weather and climate. > > > > David Kellogg > > Recent Article in /Mind, Culture, and Activity/ 24 (4) > 'Metaphoric, Metonymic, Eclectic, or Dialectic? A > Commentary on ?Neoformation: A Dialectical Approach to > Developmental Change?' > > Free e-print available (for a short time only) at > > http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/YAWPBtmPM8knMCNg6sS6/full > > > > On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 10:39 AM, Andy Blunden > > wrote: > > As Mike has pointed out on numerous occasions the > "context" of even the most modest project or action by > an individual, may turn out to be a > geopolitical/historical event. There is no boundary > which can be draw such that 'nothing outside this > boundary counts as context'. So, when a theorist > refers to 'context', either they have privileged > God-like prescience or they mean by "context" the > entire, unbounded totality of events in the world > during or prior to this action. So to refer to this > unbounded totality with the term "context" and join it > to either the research subject or within the "unit of > analysis" is to utilise an "unbounded abstraction." > > > The issue raised here is not whether analysis is > impossible of course, but simply, what is the > appropriate methodology for researching unbounded > totalities? > > > Andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > > On 1/02/2018 12:09 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: >> .... >> >> >> That said, I am very sympathetic to the idea >> that "context", if it is external in the sense of >> arbitrary, does not add much to our >> understanding. But Andy, how does your point about >> "unbounded abstraction" connect to this? >> >> >> Alfredo >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> > > From dkellogg60@gmail.com Thu Feb 1 16:42:30 2018 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2018 09:42:30 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "Context" or Object of activity In-Reply-To: References: <0dc79f2d-1447-51b1-25f8-efc653d43a46@mira.net> <1334879954.344775.1517399665156@mail.yahoo.com> <297459230.708633.1517440425783@mail.yahoo.com> <1517447401909.3673@iped.uio.no> <5ee667fe-a3a6-1291-af34-7a5acadf5669@mira.net> Message-ID: Yes, I got that. I have read a lot of your work on projects, as well as Mike's on the Fifth Dimension and after school activities. But the word "context" has the word "text" in it, not the word "project" or "activity". And "text" pertains to my own work. Let me be a hardcore linguist for a moment: it's interesting in its own right, and I think you will see it's not entirely irrelevant to the question at hand. The word "that" begins with a voiced inter-dental sound, which is often spelt "th" in English ('this', "that', 'these', 'those', 'there', 'then' and of course the most common word in any length of English text, 'the'). If you put your hands over your ears when you say them, you will feel and hear vocal cord vibration. There are also a lot of words in English with unvoiced interdentals like "thick', "thin", "thought", and "three". If you put your hands over your ears or put a hand on your throat when you say them, you will not feel any buzz. Now, does this phonological difference relate in any systematic way to context? I think you can see that it does. The words that begin with voiced inter-dental sounds are all deictic: they are used to point, to indicate, to refer exophorically to the context of situation ("That on that") or endophorically (anaphorically or cataphorically) to co-text (e.g. "That is what I meant"). That is what Vygotsky meant by "sense". But the words that begin with unvoiced interdental sounds are not deictic in this way: they refer symbolically to dictionary definitions (or concepts). That is what Vygotsky meant by "signification". Of course, both types of meaning involve contexts: a dictionary is as much a context as a supermarket. But Vygotsky teaches us that they are different kinds of contexts and they entail developmentally different kinds of meanings. Bronfrenbrenner distinguished his contexts by scale (and also, crucially, by the degree to which the child participates in the context). Malinowski distinguished a context of situation, which includes all that we need to make sense of a particular instance of text, from a context of culture, which includes all that we need to make sense of the whole language system. In both cases, the context is bounded, and in both cases it is bounded by text. In fact, the relationship between situation and culture is exactly the same as the relationship between language and text: a situation is an instance of culture, and a text is an instance of language. For that matter, weather is an instance of climate. Consider the "project" of writing a novel, Andy. In this situation, what is really important is not the room you are sitting in or the window you are looking out of or even the country you are living in. In this situation, what is important is the imaginary context which is created by the text you are generating. The relationship between text and context seems to be almost reversed, and yet it is largely the same. The reason why nothing essential changes is the same as the reason why "context" can describe both exophoric and endophoric relations equally well. It is because context does not mean a material situational setting for a project or for an activity; it is rather an abstraction from a language or an instance of language, i.e. a text. David Kellogg Recent Article in *Mind, Culture, and Activity* 24 (4) 'Metaphoric, Metonymic, Eclectic, or Dialectic? A Commentary on ?Neoformation: A Dialectical Approach to Developmental Change?' Free e-print available (for a short time only) at http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/YAWPBtmPM8knMCNg6sS6/full On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 9:07 AM, Andy Blunden wrote: > I can't follow your message at all, David, but perhaps a few > words of explanation will help. > > Faced with, for example, a design experiment like 5thD, of > course, the project leaders and researchers are aware of the > importance of the context of the project and know that the > success or early failure of the project will depend on > events coming out of an unbounded context (s well as the > resilience and self-sufficiency of the project). The problem > is (1) how to conceptualise this unbounded context. (2) If > you want to use the method of analysis by units, you ask > yourself what is the relation between a unit of analysis and > the context of the research. But (2) answers (1). > > (2) In designing the project you will analyse the unbounded > context by means of analysis by units; specifically, you > would understand that the world is made up of projects. > These projects can be conceptualised as *mediating* > elements, because the project which forms the subject matter > of the research has *collaborative relationships* with a > range of projects (the university, the local council, etc, > etc.) and these projects, when you add all of them up, are > the world. Still unbounded, but by means of analysis by > units you have an approach. The context is analysed in terms > of its units, projects, and those projects with which the > subject project collaborates are the mediating elements and > are in focus. No guarantee, but a start. > > So (1) the context is not *included* in the "unit of > analysis" but is subject to analysis by units itself. The > world is not a subordinate part of one of its units. > > This is in fact how Mike approached the problem. > > Andy > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > On 2/02/2018 8:25 AM, David Kellogg wrote: > > The late Leo van Lier, who more or less single-handedly > > created an "ecological applied linguistics" after he moved > > to the USA from Peru, used to tell a story about getting > > his eldest child, a boy who grew up speaking Spanish and > > Quechua, to speak an English sentence. Children who do not > > know what language can be easily trained to repeat > > meaningless phrases out of context (I have a lot of data > > on this), but children who already speak one language tend > > to be quite careful about speaking a new one (and they > > seem to be particularly careful about who gets to hear > > what language). So the boy refused to speak any English at > > all for a full year. One day Leo was in a supermarket > > buying breakfast cereal, and the boy was riding in the > > shopping cart. They passed another cart with another child > > and exaclty the same brand of breakfast cereal. The boy > > pointed to the other cart and then to their own and > > distinctly said "That...on that". > > > > I don't see how the context of "that" is unbounded, Andy. > > Yes, the cereal in question bears my name, but no, the > > relationship is not close, or not close enough to do me > > any good, as my father used to say over breakfast. But I > > don't see why I cannot draw a boundary between the > > breakfast cereal and my own name (as Bronfenbrenner does) > > and say that the box and the cart are part of the context > > of situation and the name and the Road to Wellville are > > not. To say that "context" in this situation is an > > "unbounded abstraction" is like saying that today's > > weather is an unbounded abstraction. Weather, like any > > other context of situation, is a context bounded by text. > > One of the boundaries that text places on context is > > distinguishing a context of situation from a context of > > culture. That, as I understand it, is the distinction > > between a micro-context and a macro-context, to use > > Bronfenbrenner's labels. Or, if you like, the distinction > > between weather and climate. > > > > > > > > David Kellogg > > > > Recent Article in /Mind, Culture, and Activity/ 24 (4) > > 'Metaphoric, Metonymic, Eclectic, or Dialectic? A > > Commentary on ?Neoformation: A Dialectical Approach to > > Developmental Change?' > > > > Free e-print available (for a short time only) at > > > > http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/YAWPBtmPM8knMCNg6sS6/full > > > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 10:39 AM, Andy Blunden > > > wrote: > > > > As Mike has pointed out on numerous occasions the > > "context" of even the most modest project or action by > > an individual, may turn out to be a > > geopolitical/historical event. There is no boundary > > which can be draw such that 'nothing outside this > > boundary counts as context'. So, when a theorist > > refers to 'context', either they have privileged > > God-like prescience or they mean by "context" the > > entire, unbounded totality of events in the world > > during or prior to this action. So to refer to this > > unbounded totality with the term "context" and join it > > to either the research subject or within the "unit of > > analysis" is to utilise an "unbounded abstraction." > > > > > > The issue raised here is not whether analysis is > > impossible of course, but simply, what is the > > appropriate methodology for researching unbounded > > totalities? > > > > > > Andy > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Andy Blunden > > http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > > > > On 1/02/2018 12:09 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > >> .... > >> > >> > >> That said, I am very sympathetic to the idea > >> that "context", if it is external in the sense of > >> arbitrary, does not add much to our > >> understanding. But Andy, how does your point about > >> "unbounded abstraction" connect to this? > >> > >> > >> Alfredo > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------ > >> > > > > > > From mcole@ucsd.edu Thu Feb 1 17:15:12 2018 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2018 17:15:12 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "Context" or Object of activity In-Reply-To: References: <0dc79f2d-1447-51b1-25f8-efc653d43a46@mira.net> <1334879954.344775.1517399665156@mail.yahoo.com> <297459230.708633.1517440425783@mail.yahoo.com> <1517447401909.3673@iped.uio.no> <5ee667fe-a3a6-1291-af34-7a5acadf5669@mira.net> Message-ID: et all- Very interesting discussion. One of the questions that I had in reading Jon's text was his assertion that Vygotsky practiced contextualism as his world hypothesis. David's example seems to provide a clear argument for why one should argue that Vygotsky was, indeed a contextualist in Jon, Pepper, and most contemporary sociocultural scholars. One could also turn to the concept of the social situation of development to make a ssd - context connection, e.g., what different work are the two terms doing? Or are they what Peg taught me to think of as "notational variants"? I am totally with the idea that we are dealing with text and context. With respect to the 5thD I have from the beginning thought of it as a text that emerges with its con-text. In the case of the 5thD it was common to think of the activity in its room with its people as the text and the youth facility where we worked (including its personnel at different levels within the club's own organizational hierarchy. What Andy has been referring to is the observations we made at the time of the Iraq war that trace the series of contingent events that came together to prevent the 5thD from terminating and led to a reorganization of 5thD-Club relationship into a different configuration that then continued for several years successfully (in our view) but terminated suddenly when the income levels of the community within which the Club operations (the club and its context, perhaps?) led to closing and reorientation of the Clubs program that no longer could accomodate an activity in the form of the 5thD. With respect to the Pepper ideas, which provoke a good deal of interest among scholars in human development at present, like Jon and myself, my own view is that we are dealing with a hybrid system involving phylogeny and (cultural) history. For Pepper that is a no-no. Overton et al provide relational developmental systems, Jon, I think, is with Pepper and believes Urie is too. I am not sure of that part. mike On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 4:42 PM, David Kellogg wrote: > Yes, I got that. I have read a lot of your work on projects, as well as > Mike's on the Fifth Dimension and after school activities. But the word > "context" has the word "text" in it, not the word "project" or "activity". > And "text" pertains to my own work. > > Let me be a hardcore linguist for a moment: it's interesting in its own > right, and I think you will see it's not entirely irrelevant to the > question at hand. The word "that" begins with a voiced inter-dental sound, > which is often spelt "th" in English ('this', "that', 'these', 'those', > 'there', 'then' and of course the most common word in any length of English > text, 'the'). If you put your hands over your ears when you say them, you > will feel and hear vocal cord vibration. There are also a lot of words in > English with unvoiced interdentals like "thick', "thin", "thought", and > "three". If you put your hands over your ears or put a hand on your throat > when you say them, you will not feel any buzz. > > Now, does this phonological difference relate in any systematic way to > context? I think you can see that it does. The words that begin with voiced > inter-dental sounds are all deictic: they are used to point, to indicate, > to refer exophorically to the context of situation ("That on that") or > endophorically (anaphorically or cataphorically) to co-text (e.g. "That is > what I meant"). That is what Vygotsky meant by "sense". But the words that > begin with unvoiced interdental sounds are not deictic in this way: they > refer symbolically to dictionary definitions (or concepts). That is what > Vygotsky meant by "signification". > > Of course, both types of meaning involve contexts: a dictionary is as much > a context as a supermarket. But Vygotsky teaches us that they are different > kinds of contexts and they entail developmentally different kinds of > meanings. Bronfrenbrenner distinguished his contexts by scale (and also, > crucially, by the degree to which the child participates in the context). > Malinowski distinguished a context of situation, which includes all that we > need to make sense of a particular instance of text, from a context of > culture, which includes all that we need to make sense of the whole > language system. In both cases, the context is bounded, and in both cases > it is bounded by text. In fact, the relationship between situation and > culture is exactly the same as the relationship between language and text: > a situation is an instance of culture, and a text is an instance of > language. For that matter, weather is an instance of climate. > > Consider the "project" of writing a novel, Andy. In this situation, what is > really important is not the room you are sitting in or the window you > are looking out of or even the country you are living in. In this > situation, what is important is the imaginary context which is created by > the text you are generating. The relationship between text and context > seems to be almost reversed, and yet it is largely the same. The reason why > nothing essential changes is the same as the reason why "context" can > describe both exophoric and endophoric relations equally well. It is > because context does not mean a material situational setting for a project > or for an activity; it is rather an abstraction from a language or an > instance of language, i.e. a text. > > > > > David Kellogg > > Recent Article in *Mind, Culture, and Activity* 24 (4) 'Metaphoric, > Metonymic, Eclectic, or Dialectic? A Commentary on ?Neoformation: A > Dialectical Approach to Developmental Change?' > > Free e-print available (for a short time only) at > > http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/YAWPBtmPM8knMCNg6sS6/full > > > On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 9:07 AM, Andy Blunden wrote: > > > I can't follow your message at all, David, but perhaps a few > > words of explanation will help. > > > > Faced with, for example, a design experiment like 5thD, of > > course, the project leaders and researchers are aware of the > > importance of the context of the project and know that the > > success or early failure of the project will depend on > > events coming out of an unbounded context (s well as the > > resilience and self-sufficiency of the project). The problem > > is (1) how to conceptualise this unbounded context. (2) If > > you want to use the method of analysis by units, you ask > > yourself what is the relation between a unit of analysis and > > the context of the research. But (2) answers (1). > > > > (2) In designing the project you will analyse the unbounded > > context by means of analysis by units; specifically, you > > would understand that the world is made up of projects. > > These projects can be conceptualised as *mediating* > > elements, because the project which forms the subject matter > > of the research has *collaborative relationships* with a > > range of projects (the university, the local council, etc, > > etc.) and these projects, when you add all of them up, are > > the world. Still unbounded, but by means of analysis by > > units you have an approach. The context is analysed in terms > > of its units, projects, and those projects with which the > > subject project collaborates are the mediating elements and > > are in focus. No guarantee, but a start. > > > > So (1) the context is not *included* in the "unit of > > analysis" but is subject to analysis by units itself. The > > world is not a subordinate part of one of its units. > > > > This is in fact how Mike approached the problem. > > > > Andy > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Andy Blunden > > http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > > On 2/02/2018 8:25 AM, David Kellogg wrote: > > > The late Leo van Lier, who more or less single-handedly > > > created an "ecological applied linguistics" after he moved > > > to the USA from Peru, used to tell a story about getting > > > his eldest child, a boy who grew up speaking Spanish and > > > Quechua, to speak an English sentence. Children who do not > > > know what language can be easily trained to repeat > > > meaningless phrases out of context (I have a lot of data > > > on this), but children who already speak one language tend > > > to be quite careful about speaking a new one (and they > > > seem to be particularly careful about who gets to hear > > > what language). So the boy refused to speak any English at > > > all for a full year. One day Leo was in a supermarket > > > buying breakfast cereal, and the boy was riding in the > > > shopping cart. They passed another cart with another child > > > and exaclty the same brand of breakfast cereal. The boy > > > pointed to the other cart and then to their own and > > > distinctly said "That...on that". > > > > > > I don't see how the context of "that" is unbounded, Andy. > > > Yes, the cereal in question bears my name, but no, the > > > relationship is not close, or not close enough to do me > > > any good, as my father used to say over breakfast. But I > > > don't see why I cannot draw a boundary between the > > > breakfast cereal and my own name (as Bronfenbrenner does) > > > and say that the box and the cart are part of the context > > > of situation and the name and the Road to Wellville are > > > not. To say that "context" in this situation is an > > > "unbounded abstraction" is like saying that today's > > > weather is an unbounded abstraction. Weather, like any > > > other context of situation, is a context bounded by text. > > > One of the boundaries that text places on context is > > > distinguishing a context of situation from a context of > > > culture. That, as I understand it, is the distinction > > > between a micro-context and a macro-context, to use > > > Bronfenbrenner's labels. Or, if you like, the distinction > > > between weather and climate. > > > > > > > > > > > > David Kellogg > > > > > > Recent Article in /Mind, Culture, and Activity/ 24 (4) > > > 'Metaphoric, Metonymic, Eclectic, or Dialectic? A > > > Commentary on ?Neoformation: A Dialectical Approach to > > > Developmental Change?' > > > > > > Free e-print available (for a short time only) at > > > > > > http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/YAWPBtmPM8knMCNg6sS6/full > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 10:39 AM, Andy Blunden > > > > wrote: > > > > > > As Mike has pointed out on numerous occasions the > > > "context" of even the most modest project or action by > > > an individual, may turn out to be a > > > geopolitical/historical event. There is no boundary > > > which can be draw such that 'nothing outside this > > > boundary counts as context'. So, when a theorist > > > refers to 'context', either they have privileged > > > God-like prescience or they mean by "context" the > > > entire, unbounded totality of events in the world > > > during or prior to this action. So to refer to this > > > unbounded totality with the term "context" and join it > > > to either the research subject or within the "unit of > > > analysis" is to utilise an "unbounded abstraction." > > > > > > > > > The issue raised here is not whether analysis is > > > impossible of course, but simply, what is the > > > appropriate methodology for researching unbounded > > > totalities? > > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Andy Blunden > > > http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > > > > > > On 1/02/2018 12:09 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > > >> .... > > >> > > >> > > >> That said, I am very sympathetic to the idea > > >> that "context", if it is external in the sense of > > >> arbitrary, does not add much to our > > >> understanding. But Andy, how does your point about > > >> "unbounded abstraction" connect to this? > > >> > > >> > > >> Alfredo > > >> > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------ > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > From jrtudge@uncg.edu Thu Feb 1 18:16:52 2018 From: jrtudge@uncg.edu (Jonathan Tudge) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2018 21:16:52 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "Context" or Object of activity In-Reply-To: References: <0dc79f2d-1447-51b1-25f8-efc653d43a46@mira.net> <1334879954.344775.1517399665156@mail.yahoo.com> <297459230.708633.1517440425783@mail.yahoo.com> <1517447401909.3673@iped.uio.no> <5ee667fe-a3a6-1291-af34-7a5acadf5669@mira.net> Message-ID: Hi, Mike, David, Andy, and others, I'll just dive in a little more in response to this last paragraph of yours, Mike: *With respect to the Pepper ideas, which provoke a good deal of interestamong scholars in humandevelopment at present, like Jon and myself, my own view is that we aredealing with a hybrid system involving phylogeny and (cultural) history.For Pepper that is a no-no. Overton et al provide relational developmentalsystems, Jon, I think, is with Pepper and believes Urie is too. I am notsure of thatpart.* I really do buy Pepper's view that the four paradigms (or world views) about which he wrote are incommensurate, given that the causes that they are built on simply don't fit. Boiling it all down to the simplest (I hope not simplistic) way of thinking about it is that mechanism is perfectly happy with efficient or material causes (reductionist, based on the environment or genes/biology) whereas organicists and contextualists accept formal causes (non-reductionistic, based on emergent properties resulting from dialectical or synergistic relations among what mechanists would consider separate factors). The defining difference between the latter two is that organicists accept the notion of final cause--a basic directionality to development leading to a specifiable endpoint (if people live long enough), whereas contextualists take an open position on what counts as an endpoint (it'll vary depending on cultural variability at different historical periods). (I know nothing about causes linked to the 4th world view, formism, as it doesn't seem to relate much to psychological theories.) It seems to me that coherence isn't possible if one wants to be both reductionist and non-reductionist, and equally difficult to accept one single endpoint and a variety of them, depending on cultural and historical factors. Overton I think takes the position that relational developmental systems (RDS) is a new and improved hybrid; I consider him an organicist, based on the half-dozen defining characteristics of RDS that he writes about. I also think that he's quite incorrect to treat Bronfenbrenner as a mechanist. It's telling, though, that he doesn't actually quote UB himself, but relies on someone else's depiction of UB's theory. Cheers, Jon ~~~~~~~~~~~ Jonathan Tudge Professor Office: 155 Stone Our work on gratitude: http://morethanthanks.wp.uncg.edu/ A new book just published: Tudge, J. & Freitas, L. (Eds.) Developing gratitude in children and adolescents , Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press My web site:http://www.uncg.edu/hdf/faculty/tudge Mailing address: 248 Stone Building Department of Human Development and Family Studies PO Box 26170 The University of North Carolina at Greensboro Greensboro, NC 27402-6170 USA phone (336) 223-6181 fax (336) 334-5076 On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 8:15 PM, mike cole wrote: > et all- > > Very interesting discussion. One of the questions that I had in reading > Jon's text was his assertion that Vygotsky practiced contextualism as his > world hypothesis. David's example seems to provide a clear argument for why > one should argue that Vygotsky was, indeed a contextualist in Jon, Pepper, > and most contemporary sociocultural scholars. > > One could also turn to the concept of the social situation of development > to make > a ssd - context connection, e.g., what different work are the two terms > doing? Or are > they what Peg taught me to think of as "notational variants"? > > I am totally with the idea that we are dealing with text and context. With > respect to the > 5thD I have from the beginning thought of it as a text that emerges with > its con-text. In the case > of the 5thD it was common to think of the activity in its room with its > people as the text and the > youth facility where we worked (including its personnel at different levels > within the club's > own organizational hierarchy. > > What Andy has been referring to is the observations we made at the time of > the Iraq war that > trace the series of contingent events that came together to prevent the > 5thD from terminating > and led to a reorganization of 5thD-Club relationship into a different > configuration that then > continued for several years successfully (in our view) but terminated > suddenly when the income levels of the community within which the Club > operations (the club and its context, perhaps?) led to closing > and reorientation of the Clubs program that no longer could accomodate an > activity in the form of the 5thD. > > With respect to the Pepper ideas, which provoke a good deal of interest > among scholars in human > development at present, like Jon and myself, my own view is that we are > dealing with a hybrid system involving phylogeny and (cultural) history. > For Pepper that is a no-no. Overton et al provide relational developmental > systems, Jon, I think, is with Pepper and believes Urie is too. I am not > sure of that > part. > > mike > > On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 4:42 PM, David Kellogg > wrote: > > > Yes, I got that. I have read a lot of your work on projects, as well as > > Mike's on the Fifth Dimension and after school activities. But the word > > "context" has the word "text" in it, not the word "project" or > "activity". > > And "text" pertains to my own work. > > > > Let me be a hardcore linguist for a moment: it's interesting in its own > > right, and I think you will see it's not entirely irrelevant to the > > question at hand. The word "that" begins with a voiced inter-dental > sound, > > which is often spelt "th" in English ('this', "that', 'these', 'those', > > 'there', 'then' and of course the most common word in any length of > English > > text, 'the'). If you put your hands over your ears when you say them, you > > will feel and hear vocal cord vibration. There are also a lot of words in > > English with unvoiced interdentals like "thick', "thin", "thought", and > > "three". If you put your hands over your ears or put a hand on your > throat > > when you say them, you will not feel any buzz. > > > > Now, does this phonological difference relate in any systematic way to > > context? I think you can see that it does. The words that begin with > voiced > > inter-dental sounds are all deictic: they are used to point, to indicate, > > to refer exophorically to the context of situation ("That on that") or > > endophorically (anaphorically or cataphorically) to co-text (e.g. "That > is > > what I meant"). That is what Vygotsky meant by "sense". But the words > that > > begin with unvoiced interdental sounds are not deictic in this way: they > > refer symbolically to dictionary definitions (or concepts). That is what > > Vygotsky meant by "signification". > > > > Of course, both types of meaning involve contexts: a dictionary is as > much > > a context as a supermarket. But Vygotsky teaches us that they are > different > > kinds of contexts and they entail developmentally different kinds of > > meanings. Bronfrenbrenner distinguished his contexts by scale (and also, > > crucially, by the degree to which the child participates in the context). > > Malinowski distinguished a context of situation, which includes all that > we > > need to make sense of a particular instance of text, from a context of > > culture, which includes all that we need to make sense of the whole > > language system. In both cases, the context is bounded, and in both cases > > it is bounded by text. In fact, the relationship between situation and > > culture is exactly the same as the relationship between language and > text: > > a situation is an instance of culture, and a text is an instance of > > language. For that matter, weather is an instance of climate. > > > > Consider the "project" of writing a novel, Andy. In this situation, what > is > > really important is not the room you are sitting in or the window you > > are looking out of or even the country you are living in. In this > > situation, what is important is the imaginary context which is created by > > the text you are generating. The relationship between text and context > > seems to be almost reversed, and yet it is largely the same. The reason > why > > nothing essential changes is the same as the reason why "context" can > > describe both exophoric and endophoric relations equally well. It is > > because context does not mean a material situational setting for a > project > > or for an activity; it is rather an abstraction from a language or an > > instance of language, i.e. a text. > > > > > > > > > > David Kellogg > > > > Recent Article in *Mind, Culture, and Activity* 24 (4) 'Metaphoric, > > Metonymic, Eclectic, or Dialectic? A Commentary on ?Neoformation: A > > Dialectical Approach to Developmental Change?' > > > > Free e-print available (for a short time only) at > > > > http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/YAWPBtmPM8knMCNg6sS6/full > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 9:07 AM, Andy Blunden wrote: > > > > > I can't follow your message at all, David, but perhaps a few > > > words of explanation will help. > > > > > > Faced with, for example, a design experiment like 5thD, of > > > course, the project leaders and researchers are aware of the > > > importance of the context of the project and know that the > > > success or early failure of the project will depend on > > > events coming out of an unbounded context (s well as the > > > resilience and self-sufficiency of the project). The problem > > > is (1) how to conceptualise this unbounded context. (2) If > > > you want to use the method of analysis by units, you ask > > > yourself what is the relation between a unit of analysis and > > > the context of the research. But (2) answers (1). > > > > > > (2) In designing the project you will analyse the unbounded > > > context by means of analysis by units; specifically, you > > > would understand that the world is made up of projects. > > > These projects can be conceptualised as *mediating* > > > elements, because the project which forms the subject matter > > > of the research has *collaborative relationships* with a > > > range of projects (the university, the local council, etc, > > > etc.) and these projects, when you add all of them up, are > > > the world. Still unbounded, but by means of analysis by > > > units you have an approach. The context is analysed in terms > > > of its units, projects, and those projects with which the > > > subject project collaborates are the mediating elements and > > > are in focus. No guarantee, but a start. > > > > > > So (1) the context is not *included* in the "unit of > > > analysis" but is subject to analysis by units itself. The > > > world is not a subordinate part of one of its units. > > > > > > This is in fact how Mike approached the problem. > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Andy Blunden > > > http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > > > On 2/02/2018 8:25 AM, David Kellogg wrote: > > > > The late Leo van Lier, who more or less single-handedly > > > > created an "ecological applied linguistics" after he moved > > > > to the USA from Peru, used to tell a story about getting > > > > his eldest child, a boy who grew up speaking Spanish and > > > > Quechua, to speak an English sentence. Children who do not > > > > know what language can be easily trained to repeat > > > > meaningless phrases out of context (I have a lot of data > > > > on this), but children who already speak one language tend > > > > to be quite careful about speaking a new one (and they > > > > seem to be particularly careful about who gets to hear > > > > what language). So the boy refused to speak any English at > > > > all for a full year. One day Leo was in a supermarket > > > > buying breakfast cereal, and the boy was riding in the > > > > shopping cart. They passed another cart with another child > > > > and exaclty the same brand of breakfast cereal. The boy > > > > pointed to the other cart and then to their own and > > > > distinctly said "That...on that". > > > > > > > > I don't see how the context of "that" is unbounded, Andy. > > > > Yes, the cereal in question bears my name, but no, the > > > > relationship is not close, or not close enough to do me > > > > any good, as my father used to say over breakfast. But I > > > > don't see why I cannot draw a boundary between the > > > > breakfast cereal and my own name (as Bronfenbrenner does) > > > > and say that the box and the cart are part of the context > > > > of situation and the name and the Road to Wellville are > > > > not. To say that "context" in this situation is an > > > > "unbounded abstraction" is like saying that today's > > > > weather is an unbounded abstraction. Weather, like any > > > > other context of situation, is a context bounded by text. > > > > One of the boundaries that text places on context is > > > > distinguishing a context of situation from a context of > > > > culture. That, as I understand it, is the distinction > > > > between a micro-context and a macro-context, to use > > > > Bronfenbrenner's labels. Or, if you like, the distinction > > > > between weather and climate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > David Kellogg > > > > > > > > Recent Article in /Mind, Culture, and Activity/ 24 (4) > > > > 'Metaphoric, Metonymic, Eclectic, or Dialectic? A > > > > Commentary on ?Neoformation: A Dialectical Approach to > > > > Developmental Change?' > > > > > > > > Free e-print available (for a short time only) at > > > > > > > > http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/YAWPBtmPM8knMCNg6sS6/full > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 10:39 AM, Andy Blunden > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > As Mike has pointed out on numerous occasions the > > > > "context" of even the most modest project or action by > > > > an individual, may turn out to be a > > > > geopolitical/historical event. There is no boundary > > > > which can be draw such that 'nothing outside this > > > > boundary counts as context'. So, when a theorist > > > > refers to 'context', either they have privileged > > > > God-like prescience or they mean by "context" the > > > > entire, unbounded totality of events in the world > > > > during or prior to this action. So to refer to this > > > > unbounded totality with the term "context" and join it > > > > to either the research subject or within the "unit of > > > > analysis" is to utilise an "unbounded abstraction." > > > > > > > > > > > > The issue raised here is not whether analysis is > > > > impossible of course, but simply, what is the > > > > appropriate methodology for researching unbounded > > > > totalities? > > > > > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > Andy Blunden > > > > http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > > > > > > > > On 1/02/2018 12:09 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > > > >> .... > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> That said, I am very sympathetic to the idea > > > >> that "context", if it is external in the sense of > > > >> arbitrary, does not add much to our > > > >> understanding. But Andy, how does your point about > > > >> "unbounded abstraction" connect to this? > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> Alfredo > > > >> > > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From R.Parker-Rees@plymouth.ac.uk Fri Feb 2 01:30:43 2018 From: R.Parker-Rees@plymouth.ac.uk (Rod Parker-Rees) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2018 09:30:43 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "Context" or Object of activity In-Reply-To: References: <0dc79f2d-1447-51b1-25f8-efc653d43a46@mira.net> <1334879954.344775.1517399665156@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi David, I am lurking on the periphery of this discussion about context but I wanted to step in on the etymology (which you do not normally argue from). As I understand it, context is rooted in weaving, not writing, 'woven together' rather than (associated) 'with text'. The question then is whether we can separate out what is and what is not interwoven with whatever it is we are trying to understand and to what extent such decisions are 'arbitrary'. Perhaps, as in physics, we can normally get by quite happily with a Newtonian model of discrete 'billiard balls' knocking against each other n (near enough) orderly ways so in 'normal' interactions we can work on the assumption that ideas, objects, actions and people are 'closed off' discrete systems. But it doesn't hurt to keep in mind that this is a useful fiction - that the interweaving is more intricate than day-to-day dealings can handle. I learned French at school and got to the point where I was able to live and work in France and (eventually) cope with the flow of chat around a dinner table but I was very much aware of the fact that the words I was using did not have the depth of context that they had for native speakers. I had not grown up hearing French songs and nursery rhymes, I had not been surrounded by the flow of gossip, news and shared interests which would fine tune my sensitivity to the nuances associated with particular words, turns of phrase and topics. In other words, I knew the language well enough to get by in the more public (znachnie based) realms of 'business' but I knew that I did not know it well enough to cope with more intimate (smysl-y) ways of speaking - I would not do well at translating poetry or love-letters. Every time we try to set boundaries around what it is we are studying - to make claims about what is and is not relevant, I think we would do well to use indefinite rather than definite articles - 'A' unit of analysis (from among an infinite number of possible units), rather than 'THE' unit of analysis. Of course that is not to say that different 'tribes' cannot specify their own rules for what, for THEM, should and should not be included - but they should not forget that this is A choice, not THE choice. All the best, Rod -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg Sent: 31 January 2018 21:16 To: Alexander Surmava Cc: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity ; Alfredo Jornet Gil Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "Context" or Object of activity Welcome back, Sasha. I missed you! Not A but B. Not this, but that. Not wanting to be a Marxist, but really being one. Not arbitrarily semantifying, but actually acting upon objects. Not a passive envelope of context but a real object of activity. Not the arbitrariness of boundaries set by linguists but the naturalness of limits set by practical actions. It's a very convincing way to argue...but only so long as I can recognize myself in A, and recognize you in B. I can't. I don't think that Vygotsky only wanted to be a Marxist and Leontiev really was one. Nor do I think that people semantify arbitrarily--I think that language is a way of acting on "layers of air" according to the natural properties of the object, and I think that the relationship between wording and meaning is even more natural; I certainly think that human language use is part of nature, since humans themselves are part of nature. I think the way that I defined context, as all the elements of a social situation which may be transformed into meaning, is not at all passive; on the contrary, it presupposes sensuous activity more than an expression like "object of activity" does (and that is why the objectivist interpretation of Activity Theory is so prevalent). Therefore, I don't think that the boundary of abstraction that I want to set between a context and what Ruqaiya Hasan calls "material situational setting" is arbitrary at all: on the contrary, I think that it is a way of solving the problem that Andy raised (assuming that Andy really does want to solve the problem of including the explanans in the explanandum). If we say that a context is an abstraction from the world, and that it is made along lines that are laid down by language in culture and by text in a situation, then we don't have the problem of including the whole world in our representation of the world (which is a problem that is symmetrical to the one which Vygotsky, as a vigilant Marxist, raised--the problem of including the whole child in our representation of the child). To look at it from the other side, I don't think that Leontiev was really a Marxist, because I don't think that a Marxist would ever reject the idea that development has to take place through crises, as Leontiev did (Problems of the Development of Mind, p. 399). I don't think that there is any such thing as "actually acting on objects" that doesn't involve some semantic representation of that object--cutting down a tree, for example, involves knowing what a tree and an axe are, and what they are both used for. Our languages--all human languages--have lexical ways of representing unique objects, but no lexical ways of representing unique processes (that is, we have proper nouns that we capitalize, like Sasha and David and LSV and Moscow, but we have no proper verbs that we capitalize, like "The Way I Struck the Tree With My Axe at Precisely 5:56 in the Morning on February First 2018"). I don't think this is an unbounded abstraction from the world, nor do I think it is arbitrary. It seems perfectly bounded and natural to me, and so I think the fit between context and semantics is a natural one and not an arbitrary one: it is the attempt to say "Just do it!" that makes an arbitrary mess of human activities. Yes, I do recognize that the language used by linguists--including "context"--is not a familiar one for you or for Andy or for other people on this list (that's why I drew your attention to the word "text" in context--I don't normally argue from etymology, as Mike knows!). Yes, I am perfectly reconciled to yelling incomprehensible things into a void as a result. But I am not reconciled to giving up the word "context" or to separating it from language use. When a man wants to cut down a tree, it's very hard to separate him from his axe by simply repeating "not an axe but an object of activity". David Kellogg Recent Article in *Mind, Culture, and Activity* 24 (4) 'Metaphoric, Metonymic, Eclectic, or Dialectic? A Commentary on ?Neoformation: A Dialectical Approach to Developmental Change?' Free e-print available (for a short time only) at http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/YAWPBtmPM8knMCNg6sS6/full David Kellogg Recent Article in *Mind, Culture, and Activity* 24 (4) 'Metaphoric, Metonymic, Eclectic, or Dialectic? A Commentary on ?Neoformation: A Dialectical Approach to Developmental Change?' Free e-print available (for a short time only) at http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/YAWPBtmPM8knMCNg6sS6/full On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 8:54 PM, Alexander Surmava < alexander.surmava@yahoo.com> wrote: > ...for me "context" is an abstraction from the world: a > > context of culture is the ensemble of relations in the world which > > we choose to semanticize in a given language, and a context of > > situation is the ensemble of relations in the world which we choose > > to semanticize in a single text. > > > You can attribute any meaning to a theoretically sterile concept of > context, as you like "semanticize" it. > From the point of view of Marxism, in the logic of which Vygotsky > WANTED to theorize, and Leontiev and Ilyenkov really theorized, the > subject does not arbitrarily "semantify" his objects, that is, natural > things, things created by human labor and social relations, but > actually act with them in accordance with their nature. > > Context is not a magical entity that affects the subject "placed in > this context" in an incomprehensible magical way. Anything can > "influence" the subject if and only if the subject acts with this > object. In other words, to be exposed you must act yourself. > Therefore, from an extremely broad and theoretically vague idea of ??the "context" (as something that "surrounds" > the passive subject and for some reason affects it), we are forced to > isolate what the subject really interacts with, what he is working on, > that is, we must distinguish the concept of the object of activity, > the real PREDMET DEYATELNOSTI. Everything that surrounds the subject, > but with which he actively does not interact, any "context" with which > the subject is not active does not exist for the subject at all, just > as before the discovery of Becquerel the radioactive rays did not > exist for human consciousness or "psyche", although, of course really > "surrounded" him whenever he had carelessness to touch the salts of > uranium or radium or to carry their crystals in his pocket. > All this applies not only to the "hard things" surrounding us, but > also to such soft and delicate matter as social relations. Those > relationships that the subject is not able to at least try to somehow > change by their own activity in them, for the subject as it does not > exist at all, they, as Spinoza would say, are not adequately realized. > Of course, the child is able to remember such little things as words > (signs), say that now the president of the United States is Donald > Trump. But really realizing the beauty of this political (or medical) > fact, he will only be able to get involved in real relations with the > political machine of the state through participation in elections or > other forms of political activism, when his own activity will face > fences erected by an elderly gentleman with an outstanding hairdo not > only on the Mexican border, but, say, between him and the health care system. > Therefore, practical implications for the practical teacher and > psychologist are not numerous "contexts", the boundaries of which can > only be established by the arbitrariness of the authors of treatises > on the context, but the real objects, what our activities really deal > with, what it stumbles upon and what it comes to. > > Sasha > > ------------------------------ > *??:* Andy Blunden > *????:* "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > *??????????:* ?????, 31 ?????? 2018 3:11 > *????:* [Xmca-l] Re: Bronfennbrenner discussion > > You can say that "context" is an "abstraction from the world" if you > like. But as Mike has shown, it is an unbounded abstraction. E.G. a > new twist in Cold War diplomacy can skittle a 4thD project and/or open > a new project for kids in San Diego and Moscow. > > Andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > On 31/01/2018 10:52 AM, David Kellogg wrote: > > Andy--I don't understand how "context" means "the world". > > That's what Malinowski thought. But I'm a linguist, and for me > > "context" is an abstraction from the world: a context of culture is > > the ensemble of relations in the world which we choose to > > semanticize in a given language, and a context of situation is the > > ensemble of relations in the world which we choose to semanticize > > in a single text. But even if you are not a linguist, doesn't a > > "context" always mean something that goes with a text, like chili > > con carne goes with meat? > > > > dk > > > > David Kellogg > > > > Recent Article in /Mind, Culture, and Activity/ 24 (4) 'Metaphoric, > > Metonymic, Eclectic, or Dialectic? A Commentary on ?Neoformation: A > > Dialectical Approach to Developmental Change?' > > > > Free e-print available (for a short time only) at > > > > http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/YAWPBtmPM8knMCNg6sS6/full > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 8:38 AM, Andy Blunden > > wrote: > > > > Mike, I have never been a reader of Bronfennbrenner, so my > > comments may be immaterial here and I am happy if you and > > others simply let them go through to the 'keeper (i.e., > > catcher). > > > > You will recall that in my "Interdisciplinary" book I > > appreciated your work, but criticised it for your claim to > > include "context" in the "unit of analysis" on the basis > > that "context" was an "open ended totality" and to include > > it in the "unit of analysis" was to destroy the very > > idea of > > a "unit." > > > > A point of agreement between us though has been the > > need for > > what we both call a "meso-level" unit between the > > individual > > action and the world, and that my use of "project" to name > > this meso-level unit, and that the 5thD project was such a > > unit, persisting for more than an individual's > > lifetime and > > escaping the control of the founder, but yet falling short > > of macro-level units like the economy, science, the > > nation, etc. > > > > Yjro is quite right when he said "the context is the > > activity,", or rather "the activities." "The activity" > > is of > > course the project. But here Yrjo is being true to > > analysis > > by units. He is suggesting that the world is best > > conceived > > as being made up of activities (I would say "projects"). > > > > To claim to include the "context" (which as you know means > > "the world") *in* the unit which makes up the world, > > is the > > same logical fallacy as asking whether "I always lie" is a > > lie, and destroy the whole point of analysis by units, > > which > > is to approach understanding infinite totalities by > > means of > > little things that you can grasp, which none the less > > characterise the whole. This unit, projects, is mediating > > between the individual action and the world. > > > > The problem is, I think, Yrjo's redefinition of "unit of > > analysis" as (according to some of his students) "the unit > > to be analysed," which I characterise as that list you > > make > > up, of everything you're going to put in your suitcase, > > which you might need on your journey. This was *not* > > Vygotsky's idea, or that of Goethe, Hegel or Marx. > > > > Whatever the problem, what happens depends on the context. > > How do you conceive of the context? by units. The > > context is > > a totality not part of a unit. > > > > :) > > > > Andy > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Andy Blunden > > http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > > > > On 31/01/2018 9:45 AM, mike cole wrote: > > > Hi Jon- > > > > > > There are obviously a ton of issues to discuss > > in your article. I > > > guess that my paper on using his ideas as part of > > the process of designing > > > activities for kids in university-community > > partnerships is > > > an example of inappropriate mis-appropriations. I'm > > not sure. If I need a > > > defense its that I thought the ideas as I understood > > them useful, but I was > > > not testing his formulations in the same way you are > > concerned to do, but > > > using (some of) them for planning, analysis, and > > interpretation. > > > > > > While trying to sort that out, I'll just make a > > couple of observations. > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 5:17 PM, Jonathan Tudge > > > wrote: > > > > > >> Yes, Martin, there always is culture within the > > microsystem--it's the only > > >> place in which culture is experienced. > > Microsystems are always embedded > > >> within culture (I'd add always within multiple > > cultures, but I don't think > > >> that Urie ever wrote that). > > >> > > >> Cheers, > > >> > > >> Jon > > >> > > >> > > >> ~~~~~~~~~~~ > > >> > > >> Jonathan Tudge > > >> > > >> Professor > > >> Office: 155 Stone > > >> > > >> Our work on gratitude: > > http://morethanthanks.wp.uncg.edu/ > > > > >> > > >> A new book just published: Tudge, J. & Freitas, L. > > (Eds.) Developing > > >> gratitude in children and adolescents > > >> > > > > > >> in-children-and-adolescents-flyer.pdf>, > > >> Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press > > >> > > >> My web site:http://www.uncg.edu/hdf/faculty/tudge > > > > >> > > >> Mailing address: > > >> 248 Stone Building > > >> Department of Human Development and Family Studies > > >> PO Box 26170 > > >> The University of North Carolina at Greensboro > > >> Greensboro, NC 27402-6170 > > >> USA > > >> > > >> phone (336) 223-6181 > > >> fax (336) 334-5076 > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 7:10 PM, Martin Packer > > > wrote: > > >> > > >>> Wow, very graphic! At first I thought my > > microsystem had exploded! :) > > >>> > > >>> The 20,000 dollar question for me has always been, > > why is culture in the > > >>> macrosystem? Is there no culture in my here-&-now > > interactions with other > > >>> people? (Well, perhaps in my case not!) > > >>> > > >>> Martin > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>> On Jan 29, 2018, at 6:34 PM, Jonathan Tudge > > > wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>> Greetings, Martin, > > >>>> > > >>>> I hope that this works (taken from a powerpoint > > presentation). > > >>>> > > >>>> Cheers, > > >>>> > > >>>> Jon > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~ > > >>>> > > >>>> Jonathan Tudge > > >>>> > > >>>> Professor > > >>>> Office: 155 Stone > > >>>> > > >>>> Our work on gratitude: > > http://morethanthanks.wp.uncg.edu/ > > > > >>>> > > >>>> A new book just published: Tudge, J. & Freitas, > > L. (Eds.) Developing > > >>>> gratitude in children and adolescents > > >>>> > > > > > >>> gratitude-in-children-and-adolescents-flyer.pdf>, > > >>>> Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press > > >>>> > > >>>> My web site:http://www.uncg.edu/hdf/faculty/tudge > > > > >>>> > > >>>> Mailing address: > > >>>> 248 Stone Building > > >>>> Department of Human Development and Family Studies > > >>>> PO Box 26170 > > >>>> The University of North Carolina at Greensboro > > >>>> Greensboro, NC 27402-6170 > > >>>> USA > > >>>> > > >>>> phone (336) 223-6181 > > >>>> fax (336) 334-5076 > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 6:22 PM, Martin Packer > > > > > >>> wrote: > > >>>>> Hi Jon, > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Would it be possible for you to post here the > > figure you mentioned in > > >>> your > > >>>>> message, page 69 of your book? > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Martin > > >>>>> > > >>>>> "I may say that whenever I meet Mrs. Seligman or > > Dr. Lowie or discuss > > >>>>> matters with Radcliffe-Brown or Kroeber, I > > become at once aware that > > >> my > > >>>>> partner does not understand anything in the > > matter, and I end usually > > >>> with > > >>>>> the feeling that this also applies to myself? > > (Malinowski, 1930) > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> On Jan 29, 2018, at 10:24 AM, Jonathan Tudge > > > > > >> wrote: > > >>>>>> Hi, Mike, > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> There are a couple of problems with the 2005 > > book. One is that the > > >>>>> papers > > >>>>>> are drawn from UB's writings from the 1970s to > > the early part of this > > >>>>>> century. As is true of Vygotsky's writings > > (and probably any > > >> theorist > > >>>>> who > > >>>>>> wrote over a significant span of time) it's > > really important to know > > >>> the > > >>>>>> date of publication. The other problem is that > > at least one of the > > >>>>>> chapters is incomplete, and there are errors in > > at least one other. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> As for the concentric circles or the > > matrioshka--they're both > > >> excellent > > >>>>>> examples of how powerful metaphors can go > > powerfully wrong! Both are > > >>>>>> utterly misleading, in that they really focus > > attention on the > > >>> different > > >>>>>> layers of context (and even then don't make > > sense--the mesosystem > > >>>>> consists > > >>>>>> of overlapping circles, as in a Venn diagram). > > Nonetheless, you're > > >>>>>> right--UB continued to use the metaphor in his > > final publications. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> However, his theory really developed a lot from > > the 1970s onwards > > >> (see > > >>>>> Rosa > > >>>>>> and Tudge, 2013; Tudge, 2013), and from the > > early 1990s onwards > > >>> "proximal > > >>>>>> processes" were the centerpiece of his > > Process-Person-Context-Time > > >>> (PPCT) > > >>>>>> model. These are essentially the everyday > > activities in which > > >>> developing > > >>>>>> people engage, and they always and only occur > > in microsystems. > > >>> However, > > >>>>>> what goes on in microsystems is always > > influenced by (a) the person > > >>>>>> characteristics of the developing individuals > > of interest and those > > >> of > > >>>>> the > > >>>>>> others with whom they interact, (b) the > > characteristics of the > > >> context, > > >>>>>> both proximal (as in the nature of the > > microsystem in which those > > >>>>>> activities are occurring) and distal (the > > macrosystem, which for him > > >>> was > > >>>>>> culture, whether considered at the level of > > society or within-society > > >>>>>> cultural groups), and (c) time, which includes > > both the need to study > > >>>>> over > > >>>>>> time (longitudinally) and in time (the > > prevailing social, economic, > > >> and > > >>>>>> political climate). A graphic representation > > that better reflects > > >>> his > > >>>>>> developed position than the concentric circles > > can be found in Tudge > > >>>>>> (2008), on page 69. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> I actually think that he rather dropped the > > ball on culture, > > >>>>>> unfortunately. I really like his writings on > > this in his 1979 book > > >> and > > >>>>> in > > >>>>>> his 1989 (or 1992) chapter on ecological > > systems theory. Reading his > > >>>>> 1998 > > >>>>>> (or 2006) handbook chapters you'll find > > virtually no mention of the > > >>>>> impact > > >>>>>> of culture (or macrosystem) despite drawing on > > Steinberg et al.'s > > >>>>> research > > >>>>>> on adolescents from different racial/ethnic groups. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Don't feel bad, though, if you have always just > > thought of > > >>>>> Bronfenbrenner's > > >>>>>> theory as one of concentric circles of > > context--you're no different > > >> in > > >>>>> that > > >>>>>> regard from just about everyone who has > > published an undergrad > > >> textbook > > >>>>> on > > >>>>>> human development, not to mention a majority of > > scholars who have > > >> said > > >>>>> that > > >>>>>> they've used UB's theory as foundational for > > their research (see > > >> Tudge > > >>> et > > >>>>>> al., 2009, 2016). > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> If anyone would like a copy of any of these > > papers, just send me a > > >>>>> private > > >>>>>> message to jrtudge@uncg.edu > > > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> - Tudge, J. R. H. (2008). *The everyday lives > > of young children: > > >>>>>> Culture, class, and child rearing in diverse > > societies.* New York: > > >>>>>> Cambridge University Press. > > >>>>>> - Tudge, J. R. H., Mokrova, I., Hatfield, B., > > & Karnik, R. B. > > >> (2009). > > >>>>>> Uses and misuses of Bronfenbrenner?s > > bioecological theory of human > > >>>>>> development. *Journal of Family Theory and > > Review, 1*(4), 198-210. > > >>>>>> - Rosa, E. M., & Tudge, J. R. H. (2013). Urie > > Bronfenbrenner?s > > >> theory > > >>>>> of > > >>>>>> human development: Its evolution from ecology > > to bioecology. > > >> *Journal > > >>>>> of > > >>>>>> Family Theory and Review, 5*(6), 243?258. > > DOI:10.1111/jftr.12022 > > >>>>>> - Tudge, J. R. H. (2013). Urie Bronfenbrenner. > > In Heather Montgomery > > >>>>>> (Ed.), *Oxford bibliographies on line: > > Childhood studies*. New York: > > >>>>>> Oxford University Press. > > >>>>>> - Tudge, J. R. H., Payir, A., Mer?on-Vargas, > > E. A., Cao, H., Liang, > > >>> Y., > > >>>>>> Li, J., & O?Brien, L. T. (2016). Still misused > > after all these > > >> years? > > >>> A > > >>>>>> re-evaluation of the uses of Bronfenbrenner?s > > bioecological theory > > >> of > > >>>>> human > > >>>>>> development. *Journal of Family Theory and > > Review*, *8,* 427?445. > > >> doi: > > >>>>>> 10.1111/jftr.12165. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Cheers, > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Jon > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~ > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Jonathan Tudge > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Professor > > >>>>>> Office: 155 Stone > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Our work on gratitude: > > http://morethanthanks.wp.uncg.edu/ > > > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> A new book just published: Tudge, J. & Freitas, > > L. (Eds.) Developing > > >>>>>> gratitude in children and adolescents > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> gratitude-in-children-and-adolescents-flyer.pdf>, > > >>>>>> Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> My web > > site:http://www.uncg.edu/hdf/faculty/tudge > > > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Mailing address: > > >>>>>> 248 Stone Building > > >>>>>> Department of Human Development and Family Studies > > >>>>>> PO Box 26170 > > >>>>>> The University of North Carolina at Greensboro > > >>>>>> Greensboro, NC 27402-6170 > > >>>>>> USA > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> phone (336) 223-6181 > > >>>>>> fax (336) 334-5076 > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 6:20 PM, mike cole > > > wrote: > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Hi Jon -- > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Nice to see your voice! > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> I only have Urie's 2005 collection, *Making > > Human Beings Human, *to > > >>>>> hand. I > > >>>>>>> checked it out > > >>>>>>> to see if the terms activity and context > > appeared there. Only sort > > >> of! > > >>>>>>> Activity is in the index, but context is not > > (!). I attach two pages > > >>>>> from > > >>>>>>> the book for those interested (and able to > > read my amateur > > >>>>>>> photos). Here it seems that activity and > > context coincide at the > > >> micro > > >>>>>>> level, but perhaps only there? > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Concerning embedded circles and context. It > > turns out that the > > >> person > > >>>>> who > > >>>>>>> induced Sheila and me to write a textbook on > > human development was > > >> U. > > >>>>>>> Bronfenbrenner. And this same U.B. discussed > > with us how to > > >> represent > > >>>>> his > > >>>>>>> perspective circa 1985, pretty early in the > > task of writing the > > >> first > > >>>>>>> edition. His use of matroshki (embedded dolls) > > as a metaphor and his > > >>>>>>> rhetoric at the time (and in 2005 as well) invites > > >>>>>>> a concentric circles representation. We > > discussed other ways of > > >> trying > > >>>>> to > > >>>>>>> represent the idea and he > > >>>>>>> said that our representation came as close as > > he could figure out. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> In the 2005 book he refers to my work as > > combining a Vygotskian > > >> notion > > >>>>> of > > >>>>>>> context with an anthropological one (p. 126), > > and uses the term > > >>>>> "ecological > > >>>>>>> context." I assume that most of my Russian > > colleagues would argue > > >> that > > >>>>> LSV > > >>>>>>> used the concept of "social situation of > > development," not context. > > >> I > > >>>>> have > > >>>>>>> no idea how he would respond to Yrjo's > > declaration that the activity > > >>> is > > >>>>> the > > >>>>>>> context, but it does not seem too far off from > > what is written on > > >> the > > >>>>> pages > > >>>>>>> attached. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Perhaps someone on xmca who is skilled at > > searching texts in > > >> cyrillic > > >>>>> could > > >>>>>>> search for his use of the term, context. I > > have always been curious > > >>>>> about > > >>>>>>> what such a search would turn up, but lack the > > skill > > >>>>>>> to carry out the query. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> And perhaps you have written something about > > the mistake of > > >>> interpreting > > >>>>>>> U.B.'s notion of contexts using embedded > > circles we could learn > > >> from?? > > >>>>>>> Certainly the passages on p. 46 remind me of > > the work of Hedegaard > > >> and > > >>>>>>> Fleer, who also draw upon U.B. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> mike > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ [http://www.plymouth.ac.uk/images/email_footer.gif] This email and any files with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the recipient to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient then copying, distribution or other use of the information contained is strictly prohibited and you should not rely on it. If you have received this email in error please let the sender know immediately and delete it from your system(s). Internet emails are not necessarily secure. While we take every care, Plymouth University accepts no responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan emails and their attachments. Plymouth University does not accept responsibility for any changes made after it was sent. Nothing in this email or its attachments constitutes an order for goods or services unless accompanied by an official order form. From smago@uga.edu Fri Feb 2 03:11:23 2018 From: smago@uga.edu (Peter Smagorinsky) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2018 11:11:23 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] FW: Our 2018 Fulani Fellowship Applications Are Open In-Reply-To: References: <1129841188312.1102100306453.1449.0.441000JL.1002@scheduler.constantcontact.com> Message-ID: Application deadline is Wednesday, March 21, 2018. 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WHAT TO KNOW _________________________________ * Paid five-month program where fellows work 24 hours per week, generally Tuesday through Saturday. * Daily schedules will consist of weekly seminars, workshops, and participating and observing in All Stars programming run by co-founder, Dr. Lenora Fulani. * Fellows will be immersed in the innovative approach to human development and social transformation that Dr. Fulani has helped to pioneer over the last 40 years. * Fellows will have the opportunity to be a part of a growing nonprofit organization and to learn from a gifted organizer and educator what it means to help the poor in America to develop, and ensure that people from all walks of life can participate in personal, political, and social transformation. 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[http://files.constantcontact.com/51a1c4a9001/1ed758cc-752f-417e-a1ca-016775a1ed57.jpg] 2017 Fulani Fellows Monique Sanders and Micah White orient a community member on classes at Dr. Fulani's free university-like school for continuing development. [http://files.constantcontact.com/51a1c4a9001/2a019309-3a00-4a9f-bfb6-018bf3ae32b4.jpg] Dr. Lenora B. Fulani with 2017 Fulani Fellows cohort: (l. to r.) Inacent Saunders, Drew Calderaro, Dr. Fulani, Frank Pettis, Monique Sanders, Micah White, Ph.D. 2017 Fulani Fellow Testimonial Drew Calderaro "The Fulani Fellowship was the most transformative experience of my professional life. I had come to it with years of experience in community organizing, nonprofit work, and more traditional social work. I had also completed a Master?s of Social Work in community organizing...but I was looking for something deeper, more willing to take itself to another level of human transformation. Little did I know, that something was human development, and it was the Fulani Fellowship that showed me with depth and intimacy what was possible in affecting the world in ways that no other experience had." [https://files.constantcontact.com/51a1c4a9001/77756724-9c92-439d-b6f7-047281f5ffca.jpg] All Stars Project | 543 West 42nd Street, New York, NY 10036 Unsubscribe lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org Update Profile | About our service provider Sent by edial@allstars.org in collaboration with [Trusted Email from Constant Contact - Try it FREE today.] Try it free today -- Lois Holzman Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy 119 West 23 St, suite 902 New York, NY 10011 Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX Tel. +1.212.941.8906 x324 Fax +1.718.797.3966 lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org Social Media Facebook | LinkedIn | Twitter Blogs Psychology Today| Psychology of Becoming | Mad in America Websites Lois Holzman | East Side Institute | Performing the World All Stars Project From dkellogg60@gmail.com Fri Feb 2 14:01:19 2018 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2018 07:01:19 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "Context" or Object of activity In-Reply-To: References: <0dc79f2d-1447-51b1-25f8-efc653d43a46@mira.net> <1334879954.344775.1517399665156@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Rod: Yes, that's the issue I was raising. What KIND of context--a context of situation, in which exophora, visiographic representation, and sense can predominate? Or a context of culture, in which endophora, concepts, and signification rule? But of course in between them there is a continuum, not a vaccuum. And in between segments of the continuum, there are gaps and crises to be navigated by the developing child. (One of these, the moment when a child realizes that a question has to be answered rather than repeated, is discussed in my forthcoming article in your journal, but there is another even more interesting one I am writing about--the moment when a child realizes that you can switch names with your little sister, and even call you mother "Daddy"!) It seems to me that this issue is clearly linked to the issues that Mike was raising. a) Mike says that there must be some relationship between context (of situation, of situation-type, of culture) and social situation of development. I think that a social situation of development is an age specific situation-type: that is, it is the ensemble of social relations between the child and the environment that are specific to a given developmental age. I don't think these are simply terminological variants, because--first of all--the SSD is part of Vygotsky's pedological periodization scheme, and therefore age specific, and--secondly--the SSD is not a specific situation or a culture (that is, the ensemble of all possible situations for a particular speech community) but something in between (though obviously the SSD of a child in early years is closer to the context-of-situation pole and the SSD of the adolescent is closer to the context-of-culture pole). b) Mike says that Vygotsky can be read as a contextualist (and not a mechanist or even an organicist). I think he can, but not if we consider context as an undifferentiated category, which is what Andy is doing when he claims that context is always unbounded. On the contrary--it's much more useful to think of context as always bounded, but whose boundaries go from all of the actual, sensuous boundaries of the material-situational setting (which is the case for a child before he or she learns to speak) to the highly abstract boundaries we see when we consider a context of culture as all of the things which may be potentially chosen as meaningful (as I said, there are real boundaries here too--e.g. the category of a Proper Verb corresponding to proper nouns, which isn't meaningful in our culture, although it could be. But the boundaries are constantly changing because our ability to mean is constantly expanding (and by the way the fact that our ability to mean is constantly expanding makes no sense unless you accept that our ability to mean does have boundaries). c) Mike says that context includes elements of phylogenesis alongside sociogenesis and of course "microgenesis" (I confess that I don't like the term microgenesis, because I think it confuses what the Gestaltists called Aktuelgenese with what Halliday calls "logogenesis",w hich is the expansion of meaning in real time. To return to the point you are making about the richness of the tapestry of context that a French speaker has when she or he has grown up near the Musee de Cluny (the unicorns!) or the Bayeux tapestry (but I hear this is going to tour England now). A good tapestry has at least two different kinds of threads (the old ones actually used many layers, like a palimpsest, and some layers were designed for washability while others were for strength). Unlike me, Vygotsky DOES use a lot of etymology in his discussion of how children develop new forms of meaning (e.g. his discussion of Mondegreens in Chapter 6 of HDHMF). Ruqaiya Hasan doesn't praise Vygotsky not for the usual thing that people see in him--a firm grasp of the obvious, and even tautological, facts of the sociogenesis of mind. Instead she appreciates what she calls (somewhat unfortunately) his "biogenetic" approach: his ability to see development from the phylogenetic, sociogenetic, and logogenetic angle all at the same time, without ever forgetting that although they are all one and the same thing--just different forms of change over time--they can still look very very very different and consequently mean very different things to the child and to the ensemble of social relations in which the chld is enmeshed. I think Hasan appreciated that this was not only Marxism but genius Marxism. One of the things I really didn't agree with her on was Salman Rushdie, an author I still love and that she had a strong dislike for. In Midnight's Children, Rushdie talks about the magicians in the market of Mumbai (who I can still remember from when I was a little child in what was called Bombay). The magicians are all members of the Indian Communist Party, so they have this uncanny, but self-critical, ability to magically bend reality to their will without ever forgetting that magic doesn't really exist. But you said that already, didn't you? dk David Kellogg Recent Article in *Mind, Culture, and Activity* 24 (4) 'Metaphoric, Metonymic, Eclectic, or Dialectic? A Commentary on ?Neoformation: A Dialectical Approach to Developmental Change?' Free e-print available (for a short time only) at http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/YAWPBtmPM8knMCNg6sS6/full On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 6:30 PM, Rod Parker-Rees < R.Parker-Rees@plymouth.ac.uk> wrote: > Hi David, > > I am lurking on the periphery of this discussion about context but I > wanted to step in on the etymology (which you do not normally argue from). > > As I understand it, context is rooted in weaving, not writing, 'woven > together' rather than (associated) 'with text'. The question then is > whether we can separate out what is and what is not interwoven with > whatever it is we are trying to understand and to what extent such > decisions are 'arbitrary'. Perhaps, as in physics, we can normally get by > quite happily with a Newtonian model of discrete 'billiard balls' knocking > against each other n (near enough) orderly ways so in 'normal' interactions > we can work on the assumption that ideas, objects, actions and people are > 'closed off' discrete systems. But it doesn't hurt to keep in mind that > this is a useful fiction - that the interweaving is more intricate than > day-to-day dealings can handle. > > I learned French at school and got to the point where I was able to live > and work in France and (eventually) cope with the flow of chat around a > dinner table but I was very much aware of the fact that the words I was > using did not have the depth of context that they had for native speakers. > I had not grown up hearing French songs and nursery rhymes, I had not been > surrounded by the flow of gossip, news and shared interests which would > fine tune my sensitivity to the nuances associated with particular words, > turns of phrase and topics. In other words, I knew the language well enough > to get by in the more public (znachnie based) realms of 'business' but I > knew that I did not know it well enough to cope with more intimate > (smysl-y) ways of speaking - I would not do well at translating poetry or > love-letters. > > Every time we try to set boundaries around what it is we are studying - > to make claims about what is and is not relevant, I think we would do well > to use indefinite rather than definite articles - 'A' unit of analysis > (from among an infinite number of possible units), rather than 'THE' unit > of analysis. Of course that is not to say that different 'tribes' cannot > specify their own rules for what, for THEM, should and should not be > included - but they should not forget that this is A choice, not THE choice. > > All the best, > > Rod > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg > Sent: 31 January 2018 21:16 > To: Alexander Surmava > Cc: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity ; Alfredo > Jornet Gil > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "Context" or Object of activity > > Welcome back, Sasha. I missed you! > > Not A but B. Not this, but that. Not wanting to be a Marxist, but really > being one. Not arbitrarily semantifying, but actually acting upon objects. > Not a passive envelope of context but a real object of activity. Not the > arbitrariness of boundaries set by linguists but the naturalness of limits > set by practical actions. It's a very convincing way to argue...but only so > long as I can recognize myself in A, and recognize you in B. > > I can't. I don't think that Vygotsky only wanted to be a Marxist and > Leontiev really was one. Nor do I think that people semantify > arbitrarily--I think that language is a way of acting on "layers of air" > according to the natural properties of the object, and I think that the > relationship between wording and meaning is even more natural; I certainly > think that human language use is part of nature, since humans themselves > are part of nature. I think the way that I defined context, as all the > elements of a social situation which may be transformed into meaning, is > not at all passive; on the contrary, it presupposes sensuous activity more > than an expression like "object of activity" does (and that is why the > objectivist interpretation of Activity Theory is so prevalent). Therefore, > I don't think that the boundary of abstraction that I want to set between a > context and what Ruqaiya Hasan calls "material situational setting" is > arbitrary at all: on the contrary, I think that it is a way of solving the > problem that Andy raised (assuming that Andy really does want to solve the > problem of including the explanans in the explanandum). If we say that a > context is an abstraction from the world, and that it is made along lines > that are laid down by language in culture and by text in a situation, then > we don't have the problem of including the whole world in our > representation of the world (which is a problem that is symmetrical to the > one which Vygotsky, as a vigilant Marxist, raised--the problem of including > the whole child in our representation of the child). > > To look at it from the other side, I don't think that Leontiev was really > a Marxist, because I don't think that a Marxist would ever reject the idea > that development has to take place through crises, as Leontiev did > (Problems of the Development of Mind, p. 399). I don't think that there is > any such thing as "actually acting on objects" that doesn't involve some > semantic representation of that object--cutting down a tree, for example, > involves knowing what a tree and an axe are, and what they are both used > for. Our languages--all human languages--have lexical ways of representing > unique objects, but no lexical ways of representing unique processes (that > is, we have proper nouns that we capitalize, like Sasha and David and LSV > and Moscow, but we have no proper verbs that we capitalize, like "The Way I > Struck the Tree With My Axe at Precisely 5:56 in the Morning on February > First 2018"). I don't think this is an unbounded abstraction from the > world, nor do I think it is arbitrary. It seems perfectly bounded and > natural to me, and so I think the fit between context and semantics is a > natural one and not an arbitrary one: it is the attempt to say "Just do > it!" that makes an arbitrary mess of human activities. > > Yes, I do recognize that the language used by linguists--including > "context"--is not a familiar one for you or for Andy or for other people on > this list (that's why I drew your attention to the word "text" in > context--I don't normally argue from etymology, as Mike knows!). Yes, I am > perfectly reconciled to yelling incomprehensible things into a void as a > result. But I am not reconciled to giving up the word "context" or to > separating it from language use. When a man wants to cut down a tree, it's > very hard to separate him from his axe by simply repeating "not an axe but > an object of activity". > > > David Kellogg > > Recent Article in *Mind, Culture, and Activity* 24 (4) 'Metaphoric, > Metonymic, Eclectic, or Dialectic? A Commentary on ?Neoformation: A > Dialectical Approach to Developmental Change?' > > Free e-print available (for a short time only) at > > http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/YAWPBtmPM8knMCNg6sS6/full > > > David Kellogg > > Recent Article in *Mind, Culture, and Activity* 24 (4) 'Metaphoric, > Metonymic, Eclectic, or Dialectic? A Commentary on ?Neoformation: A > Dialectical Approach to Developmental Change?' > > Free e-print available (for a short time only) at > > http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/YAWPBtmPM8knMCNg6sS6/full > > > On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 8:54 PM, Alexander Surmava < > alexander.surmava@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > ...for me "context" is an abstraction from the world: a > > > context of culture is the ensemble of relations in the world which > > > we choose to semanticize in a given language, and a context of > > > situation is the ensemble of relations in the world which we choose > > > to semanticize in a single text. > > > > > > You can attribute any meaning to a theoretically sterile concept of > > context, as you like "semanticize" it. > > From the point of view of Marxism, in the logic of which Vygotsky > > WANTED to theorize, and Leontiev and Ilyenkov really theorized, the > > subject does not arbitrarily "semantify" his objects, that is, natural > > things, things created by human labor and social relations, but > > actually act with them in accordance with their nature. > > > > Context is not a magical entity that affects the subject "placed in > > this context" in an incomprehensible magical way. Anything can > > "influence" the subject if and only if the subject acts with this > > object. In other words, to be exposed you must act yourself. > > Therefore, from an extremely broad and theoretically vague idea of ??the > "context" (as something that "surrounds" > > the passive subject and for some reason affects it), we are forced to > > isolate what the subject really interacts with, what he is working on, > > that is, we must distinguish the concept of the object of activity, > > the real PREDMET DEYATELNOSTI. Everything that surrounds the subject, > > but with which he actively does not interact, any "context" with which > > the subject is not active does not exist for the subject at all, just > > as before the discovery of Becquerel the radioactive rays did not > > exist for human consciousness or "psyche", although, of course really > > "surrounded" him whenever he had carelessness to touch the salts of > > uranium or radium or to carry their crystals in his pocket. > > All this applies not only to the "hard things" surrounding us, but > > also to such soft and delicate matter as social relations. Those > > relationships that the subject is not able to at least try to somehow > > change by their own activity in them, for the subject as it does not > > exist at all, they, as Spinoza would say, are not adequately realized. > > Of course, the child is able to remember such little things as words > > (signs), say that now the president of the United States is Donald > > Trump. But really realizing the beauty of this political (or medical) > > fact, he will only be able to get involved in real relations with the > > political machine of the state through participation in elections or > > other forms of political activism, when his own activity will face > > fences erected by an elderly gentleman with an outstanding hairdo not > > only on the Mexican border, but, say, between him and the health care > system. > > Therefore, practical implications for the practical teacher and > > psychologist are not numerous "contexts", the boundaries of which can > > only be established by the arbitrariness of the authors of treatises > > on the context, but the real objects, what our activities really deal > > with, what it stumbles upon and what it comes to. > > > > Sasha > > > > ------------------------------ > > *??:* Andy Blunden > > *????:* "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > > *??????????:* ?????, 31 ?????? 2018 3:11 > > *????:* [Xmca-l] Re: Bronfennbrenner discussion > > > > You can say that "context" is an "abstraction from the world" if you > > like. But as Mike has shown, it is an unbounded abstraction. E.G. a > > new twist in Cold War diplomacy can skittle a 4thD project and/or open > > a new project for kids in San Diego and Moscow. > > > > Andy > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Andy Blunden > > http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > > On 31/01/2018 10:52 AM, David Kellogg wrote: > > > Andy--I don't understand how "context" means "the world". > > > That's what Malinowski thought. But I'm a linguist, and for me > > > "context" is an abstraction from the world: a context of culture is > > > the ensemble of relations in the world which we choose to > > > semanticize in a given language, and a context of situation is the > > > ensemble of relations in the world which we choose to semanticize > > > in a single text. But even if you are not a linguist, doesn't a > > > "context" always mean something that goes with a text, like chili > > > con carne goes with meat? > > > > > > dk > > > > > > David Kellogg > > > > > > Recent Article in /Mind, Culture, and Activity/ 24 (4) 'Metaphoric, > > > Metonymic, Eclectic, or Dialectic? A Commentary on ?Neoformation: A > > > Dialectical Approach to Developmental Change?' > > > > > > Free e-print available (for a short time only) at > > > > > > http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/YAWPBtmPM8knMCNg6sS6/full > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 8:38 AM, Andy Blunden > > > wrote: > > > > > > Mike, I have never been a reader of Bronfennbrenner, so my > > > comments may be immaterial here and I am happy if you and > > > others simply let them go through to the 'keeper (i.e., > > > catcher). > > > > > > You will recall that in my "Interdisciplinary" book I > > > appreciated your work, but criticised it for your claim to > > > include "context" in the "unit of analysis" on the basis > > > that "context" was an "open ended totality" and to include > > > it in the "unit of analysis" was to destroy the very > > > idea of > > > a "unit." > > > > > > A point of agreement between us though has been the > > > need for > > > what we both call a "meso-level" unit between the > > > individual > > > action and the world, and that my use of "project" to name > > > this meso-level unit, and that the 5thD project was such a > > > unit, persisting for more than an individual's > > > lifetime and > > > escaping the control of the founder, but yet falling short > > > of macro-level units like the economy, science, the > > > nation, etc. > > > > > > Yjro is quite right when he said "the context is the > > > activity,", or rather "the activities." "The activity" > > > is of > > > course the project. But here Yrjo is being true to > > > analysis > > > by units. He is suggesting that the world is best > > > conceived > > > as being made up of activities (I would say "projects"). > > > > > > To claim to include the "context" (which as you know means > > > "the world") *in* the unit which makes up the world, > > > is the > > > same logical fallacy as asking whether "I always lie" is a > > > lie, and destroy the whole point of analysis by units, > > > which > > > is to approach understanding infinite totalities by > > > means of > > > little things that you can grasp, which none the less > > > characterise the whole. This unit, projects, is mediating > > > between the individual action and the world. > > > > > > The problem is, I think, Yrjo's redefinition of "unit of > > > analysis" as (according to some of his students) "the unit > > > to be analysed," which I characterise as that list you > > > make > > > up, of everything you're going to put in your suitcase, > > > which you might need on your journey. This was *not* > > > Vygotsky's idea, or that of Goethe, Hegel or Marx. > > > > > > Whatever the problem, what happens depends on the context. > > > How do you conceive of the context? by units. The > > > context is > > > a totality not part of a unit. > > > > > > :) > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Andy Blunden > > > http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > > > > > > On 31/01/2018 9:45 AM, mike cole wrote: > > > > Hi Jon- > > > > > > > > There are obviously a ton of issues to discuss > > > in your article. I > > > > guess that my paper on using his ideas as part of > > > the process of designing > > > > activities for kids in university-community > > > partnerships is > > > > an example of inappropriate mis-appropriations. I'm > > > not sure. If I need a > > > > defense its that I thought the ideas as I understood > > > them useful, but I was > > > > not testing his formulations in the same way you are > > > concerned to do, but > > > > using (some of) them for planning, analysis, and > > > interpretation. > > > > > > > > While trying to sort that out, I'll just make a > > > couple of observations. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 5:17 PM, Jonathan Tudge > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> Yes, Martin, there always is culture within the > > > microsystem--it's the only > > > >> place in which culture is experienced. > > > Microsystems are always embedded > > > >> within culture (I'd add always within multiple > > > cultures, but I don't think > > > >> that Urie ever wrote that). > > > >> > > > >> Cheers, > > > >> > > > >> Jon > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> ~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > >> > > > >> Jonathan Tudge > > > >> > > > >> Professor > > > >> Office: 155 Stone > > > >> > > > >> Our work on gratitude: > > > http://morethanthanks.wp.uncg.edu/ > > > > > > >> > > > >> A new book just published: Tudge, J. & Freitas, L. > > > (Eds.) Developing > > > >> gratitude in children and adolescents > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> in-children-and-adolescents-flyer.pdf>, > > > >> Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press > > > >> > > > >> My web site:http://www.uncg.edu/hdf/faculty/tudge > > > > > > >> > > > >> Mailing address: > > > >> 248 Stone Building > > > >> Department of Human Development and Family Studies > > > >> PO Box 26170 > > > >> The University of North Carolina at Greensboro > > > >> Greensboro, NC 27402-6170 > > > >> USA > > > >> > > > >> phone (336) 223-6181 > > > >> fax (336) 334-5076 > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 7:10 PM, Martin Packer > > > > wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> Wow, very graphic! At first I thought my > > > microsystem had exploded! :) > > > >>> > > > >>> The 20,000 dollar question for me has always been, > > > why is culture in the > > > >>> macrosystem? Is there no culture in my here-&-now > > > interactions with other > > > >>> people? (Well, perhaps in my case not!) > > > >>> > > > >>> Martin > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>>> On Jan 29, 2018, at 6:34 PM, Jonathan Tudge > > > > wrote: > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Greetings, Martin, > > > >>>> > > > >>>> I hope that this works (taken from a powerpoint > > > presentation). > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Cheers, > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Jon > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Jonathan Tudge > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Professor > > > >>>> Office: 155 Stone > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Our work on gratitude: > > > http://morethanthanks.wp.uncg.edu/ > > > > > > >>>> > > > >>>> A new book just published: Tudge, J. & Freitas, > > > L. (Eds.) Developing > > > >>>> gratitude in children and adolescents > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >>> gratitude-in-children-and-adolescents-flyer.pdf>, > > > >>>> Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press > > > >>>> > > > >>>> My web site:http://www.uncg.edu/hdf/faculty/tudge > > > > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Mailing address: > > > >>>> 248 Stone Building > > > >>>> Department of Human Development and Family Studies > > > >>>> PO Box 26170 > > > >>>> The University of North Carolina at Greensboro > > > >>>> Greensboro, NC 27402-6170 > > > >>>> USA > > > >>>> > > > >>>> phone (336) 223-6181 > > > >>>> fax (336) 334-5076 > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 6:22 PM, Martin Packer > > > > > > > >>> wrote: > > > >>>>> Hi Jon, > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Would it be possible for you to post here the > > > figure you mentioned in > > > >>> your > > > >>>>> message, page 69 of your book? > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Martin > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> "I may say that whenever I meet Mrs. Seligman or > > > Dr. Lowie or discuss > > > >>>>> matters with Radcliffe-Brown or Kroeber, I > > > become at once aware that > > > >> my > > > >>>>> partner does not understand anything in the > > > matter, and I end usually > > > >>> with > > > >>>>> the feeling that this also applies to myself? > > > (Malinowski, 1930) > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>>> On Jan 29, 2018, at 10:24 AM, Jonathan Tudge > > > > > > > >> wrote: > > > >>>>>> Hi, Mike, > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> There are a couple of problems with the 2005 > > > book. One is that the > > > >>>>> papers > > > >>>>>> are drawn from UB's writings from the 1970s to > > > the early part of this > > > >>>>>> century. As is true of Vygotsky's writings > > > (and probably any > > > >> theorist > > > >>>>> who > > > >>>>>> wrote over a significant span of time) it's > > > really important to know > > > >>> the > > > >>>>>> date of publication. The other problem is that > > > at least one of the > > > >>>>>> chapters is incomplete, and there are errors in > > > at least one other. > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> As for the concentric circles or the > > > matrioshka--they're both > > > >> excellent > > > >>>>>> examples of how powerful metaphors can go > > > powerfully wrong! Both are > > > >>>>>> utterly misleading, in that they really focus > > > attention on the > > > >>> different > > > >>>>>> layers of context (and even then don't make > > > sense--the mesosystem > > > >>>>> consists > > > >>>>>> of overlapping circles, as in a Venn diagram). > > > Nonetheless, you're > > > >>>>>> right--UB continued to use the metaphor in his > > > final publications. > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> However, his theory really developed a lot from > > > the 1970s onwards > > > >> (see > > > >>>>> Rosa > > > >>>>>> and Tudge, 2013; Tudge, 2013), and from the > > > early 1990s onwards > > > >>> "proximal > > > >>>>>> processes" were the centerpiece of his > > > Process-Person-Context-Time > > > >>> (PPCT) > > > >>>>>> model. These are essentially the everyday > > > activities in which > > > >>> developing > > > >>>>>> people engage, and they always and only occur > > > in microsystems. > > > >>> However, > > > >>>>>> what goes on in microsystems is always > > > influenced by (a) the person > > > >>>>>> characteristics of the developing individuals > > > of interest and those > > > >> of > > > >>>>> the > > > >>>>>> others with whom they interact, (b) the > > > characteristics of the > > > >> context, > > > >>>>>> both proximal (as in the nature of the > > > microsystem in which those > > > >>>>>> activities are occurring) and distal (the > > > macrosystem, which for him > > > >>> was > > > >>>>>> culture, whether considered at the level of > > > society or within-society > > > >>>>>> cultural groups), and (c) time, which includes > > > both the need to study > > > >>>>> over > > > >>>>>> time (longitudinally) and in time (the > > > prevailing social, economic, > > > >> and > > > >>>>>> political climate). A graphic representation > > > that better reflects > > > >>> his > > > >>>>>> developed position than the concentric circles > > > can be found in Tudge > > > >>>>>> (2008), on page 69. > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> I actually think that he rather dropped the > > > ball on culture, > > > >>>>>> unfortunately. I really like his writings on > > > this in his 1979 book > > > >> and > > > >>>>> in > > > >>>>>> his 1989 (or 1992) chapter on ecological > > > systems theory. Reading his > > > >>>>> 1998 > > > >>>>>> (or 2006) handbook chapters you'll find > > > virtually no mention of the > > > >>>>> impact > > > >>>>>> of culture (or macrosystem) despite drawing on > > > Steinberg et al.'s > > > >>>>> research > > > >>>>>> on adolescents from different racial/ethnic groups. > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> Don't feel bad, though, if you have always just > > > thought of > > > >>>>> Bronfenbrenner's > > > >>>>>> theory as one of concentric circles of > > > context--you're no different > > > >> in > > > >>>>> that > > > >>>>>> regard from just about everyone who has > > > published an undergrad > > > >> textbook > > > >>>>> on > > > >>>>>> human development, not to mention a majority of > > > scholars who have > > > >> said > > > >>>>> that > > > >>>>>> they've used UB's theory as foundational for > > > their research (see > > > >> Tudge > > > >>> et > > > >>>>>> al., 2009, 2016). > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> If anyone would like a copy of any of these > > > papers, just send me a > > > >>>>> private > > > >>>>>> message to jrtudge@uncg.edu > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> - Tudge, J. R. H. (2008). *The everyday lives > > > of young children: > > > >>>>>> Culture, class, and child rearing in diverse > > > societies.* New York: > > > >>>>>> Cambridge University Press. > > > >>>>>> - Tudge, J. R. H., Mokrova, I., Hatfield, B., > > > & Karnik, R. B. > > > >> (2009). > > > >>>>>> Uses and misuses of Bronfenbrenner?s > > > bioecological theory of human > > > >>>>>> development. *Journal of Family Theory and > > > Review, 1*(4), 198-210. > > > >>>>>> - Rosa, E. M., & Tudge, J. R. H. (2013). Urie > > > Bronfenbrenner?s > > > >> theory > > > >>>>> of > > > >>>>>> human development: Its evolution from ecology > > > to bioecology. > > > >> *Journal > > > >>>>> of > > > >>>>>> Family Theory and Review, 5*(6), 243?258. > > > DOI:10.1111/jftr.12022 > > > >>>>>> - Tudge, J. R. H. (2013). Urie Bronfenbrenner. > > > In Heather Montgomery > > > >>>>>> (Ed.), *Oxford bibliographies on line: > > > Childhood studies*. New York: > > > >>>>>> Oxford University Press. > > > >>>>>> - Tudge, J. R. H., Payir, A., Mer?on-Vargas, > > > E. A., Cao, H., Liang, > > > >>> Y., > > > >>>>>> Li, J., & O?Brien, L. T. (2016). Still misused > > > after all these > > > >> years? > > > >>> A > > > >>>>>> re-evaluation of the uses of Bronfenbrenner?s > > > bioecological theory > > > >> of > > > >>>>> human > > > >>>>>> development. *Journal of Family Theory and > > > Review*, *8,* 427?445. > > > >> doi: > > > >>>>>> 10.1111/jftr.12165. > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> Cheers, > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> Jon > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> Jonathan Tudge > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> Professor > > > >>>>>> Office: 155 Stone > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> Our work on gratitude: > > > http://morethanthanks.wp.uncg.edu/ > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> A new book just published: Tudge, J. & Freitas, > > > L. (Eds.) Developing > > > >>>>>> gratitude in children and adolescents > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > > > >>>>> gratitude-in-children-and-adolescents-flyer.pdf>, > > > >>>>>> Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> My web > > > site:http://www.uncg.edu/hdf/faculty/tudge > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> Mailing address: > > > >>>>>> 248 Stone Building > > > >>>>>> Department of Human Development and Family Studies > > > >>>>>> PO Box 26170 > > > >>>>>> The University of North Carolina at Greensboro > > > >>>>>> Greensboro, NC 27402-6170 > > > >>>>>> USA > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> phone (336) 223-6181 > > > >>>>>> fax (336) 334-5076 > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 6:20 PM, mike cole > > > > wrote: > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> Hi Jon -- > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> Nice to see your voice! > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> I only have Urie's 2005 collection, *Making > > > Human Beings Human, *to > > > >>>>> hand. I > > > >>>>>>> checked it out > > > >>>>>>> to see if the terms activity and context > > > appeared there. Only sort > > > >> of! > > > >>>>>>> Activity is in the index, but context is not > > > (!). I attach two pages > > > >>>>> from > > > >>>>>>> the book for those interested (and able to > > > read my amateur > > > >>>>>>> photos). Here it seems that activity and > > > context coincide at the > > > >> micro > > > >>>>>>> level, but perhaps only there? > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> Concerning embedded circles and context. It > > > turns out that the > > > >> person > > > >>>>> who > > > >>>>>>> induced Sheila and me to write a textbook on > > > human development was > > > >> U. > > > >>>>>>> Bronfenbrenner. And this same U.B. discussed > > > with us how to > > > >> represent > > > >>>>> his > > > >>>>>>> perspective circa 1985, pretty early in the > > > task of writing the > > > >> first > > > >>>>>>> edition. His use of matroshki (embedded dolls) > > > as a metaphor and his > > > >>>>>>> rhetoric at the time (and in 2005 as well) invites > > > >>>>>>> a concentric circles representation. We > > > discussed other ways of > > > >> trying > > > >>>>> to > > > >>>>>>> represent the idea and he > > > >>>>>>> said that our representation came as close as > > > he could figure out. > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> In the 2005 book he refers to my work as > > > combining a Vygotskian > > > >> notion > > > >>>>> of > > > >>>>>>> context with an anthropological one (p. 126), > > > and uses the term > > > >>>>> "ecological > > > >>>>>>> context." I assume that most of my Russian > > > colleagues would argue > > > >> that > > > >>>>> LSV > > > >>>>>>> used the concept of "social situation of > > > development," not context. > > > >> I > > > >>>>> have > > > >>>>>>> no idea how he would respond to Yrjo's > > > declaration that the activity > > > >>> is > > > >>>>> the > > > >>>>>>> context, but it does not seem too far off from > > > what is written on > > > >> the > > > >>>>> pages > > > >>>>>>> attached. > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> Perhaps someone on xmca who is skilled at > > > searching texts in > > > >> cyrillic > > > >>>>> could > > > >>>>>>> search for his use of the term, context. I > > > have always been curious > > > >>>>> about > > > >>>>>>> what such a search would turn up, but lack the > > > skill > > > >>>>>>> to carry out the query. > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> And perhaps you have written something about > > > the mistake of > > > >>> interpreting > > > >>>>>>> U.B.'s notion of contexts using embedded > > > circles we could learn > > > >> from?? > > > >>>>>>> Certainly the passages on p. 46 remind me of > > > the work of Hedegaard > > > >> and > > > >>>>>>> Fleer, who also draw upon U.B. > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> mike > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > [http://www.plymouth.ac.uk/images/email_footer.gif] //www.plymouth.ac.uk/worldclass> > > This email and any files with it are confidential and intended solely for > the use of the recipient to whom it is addressed. If you are not the > intended recipient then copying, distribution or other use of the > information contained is strictly prohibited and you should not rely on it. > If you have received this email in error please let the sender know > immediately and delete it from your system(s). Internet emails are not > necessarily secure. While we take every care, Plymouth University accepts > no responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan emails > and their attachments. Plymouth University does not accept responsibility > for any changes made after it was sent. Nothing in this email or its > attachments constitutes an order for goods or services unless accompanied > by an official order form. > > From dkellogg60@gmail.com Fri Feb 2 16:40:09 2018 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2018 09:40:09 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] That on That Message-ID: When most of us speak, we try to "home in" on context--that is, we try to listen to what we are saying not only from the point of view of the speaker but also from the point of view of the hearer--who is part of the context of situation--and we therefore try to elaborate, to exend, and to enhance what we are saying from that point of view. Because speaking is a process of realizing or completing thinking--not simply expressing some thought that exists already in the mind--this process of transition from the speaker's point of view to that of the hearer can be traced in the lexicogrammar through what Halliday calls the textual metafunction. There are two systems which govern the textual metafunction--which allow us to turn our own words into an experiencing of our own words. One is the system of Theme which is mostly realized in word order, and the other is the system of Information which is largely realized through tonic stress). In word order, the speaker must manage a transition from Theme (the starting point of the speaker) to Rheme (the endpoint, where the speaker hands over to the hearer. In stress, the speaker must go from unstressed from Given (information that is shared with the hearer) to stressed New (information which is being shared). The variation between "a" and "the" which Rod noted is just one example of this double transition: If I say "once upon a time there was a man (stressed); the man (unstressed) was a president", then "a man" is Rheme, and New iinformation in the first clause, but it is Theme and Given information in the second). Another example is the difference between "it" which can be used as Theme and as Given, and "that" which is used for Rheme and New: we can say "Look at THAT!" but we say "LOOK at it!" There are some interesting exceptions to this rule, though. That is, there are people who cannot seem to home in on context--who do not listen to themselves speak and do not manage to auto-adjust by taking in the hearer's point of view. As a consequence, they do not become more coherent as they speak, but less so. Here's an example. "I think the me?I think it?s terrible. You wanna know the truth? I think it?s a disgrace. What?s going on in this country. I think it?s a disgrace. The memo was sent to?Congress; it was declassified; Congress will do whatever?they?re going to do, but I think it?s a disgrace what?s happening in our country. And when you look at that and you see that and so many other things what?s (sic) going on?.uh lotta people should be ashamed of themselves and much worse than that. So I sent it over to Congress; they will do whatever they?re going to do; whatever they do is?fine; it was declassified and let?s see what happens. But a lot of people should be ashamed. Thank you very much." The speaker begins with the most common theme in English: "I". There is nothing particularly "egocentric" about this: it naturally follows on from the question which the hearer just asked the speaker. But when the speaker arrives at the Rheme, which should be "memo", something happens. "It" is indicative--it should refer to the memo. So it appears that the speaker is saying that the memo is terrible. But that wasn't actually what the speaker meant. The speaker tries, heroically, to take the hearer point of view in the next clause, with an empty phrase "You wanna know the truth". But he then follows this up with a statement which, if we follow the chain of endoporic reference, actually says that the memo is a disgrace. In order to avoid this implicature, the speaker avoids "homing in" on context and instead makes it broader--what's going on in this country." But then back to the memo. You must say something about the memo, because that was what the question was about. So you say something that is actually entirely Given information--without any New at all. But the hearer is expecting something New. One must say something new. So "That". "That on That". David Kellogg Recent Article in *Mind, Culture, and Activity* 24 (4) 'Metaphoric, Metonymic, Eclectic, or Dialectic? A Commentary on ?Neoformation: A Dialectical Approach to Developmental Change?' Free e-print available (for a short time only) at http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/YAWPBtmPM8knMCNg6sS6/full From R.Parker-Rees@plymouth.ac.uk Sun Feb 4 03:55:27 2018 From: R.Parker-Rees@plymouth.ac.uk (Rod Parker-Rees) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2018 11:55:27 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: That on That In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: David, On the question of 'experiencing our own words', I have been interested in the extent to which we are also able to experience other people through our experience of what they do to how we speak. The various adjustments which we make, in the timing and rhythm of our speaking, our intonation and accent and even our interpersonal timing and distance, are directly and physically experienced and therefore available (albeit largely unconsciously) to our memory of what interactions with this person feel like. I believe (and I am sure you will know much more about this) that linguists vary in terms of how much of this 'instancial', situation specific context can or should be acknowledged in analyses of interactions. While much can be read from the traces of interaction which can be captured on paper, there is also much that is lost. Learning to read and write also seems to shift our attention so that what can be recorded becomes more significant, more thinkable and more important than the more person/situation specific, evanescent context which, however, may be particularly 'telling' when it comes to making sophisticated social judgements about what someone MEANT by what they said. And of course, it may be that some people's social judgments are less sophisticated than others'. All the best, Rod -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg Sent: 03 February 2018 00:40 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] That on That When most of us speak, we try to "home in" on context--that is, we try to listen to what we are saying not only from the point of view of the speaker but also from the point of view of the hearer--who is part of the context of situation--and we therefore try to elaborate, to exend, and to enhance what we are saying from that point of view. Because speaking is a process of realizing or completing thinking--not simply expressing some thought that exists already in the mind--this process of transition from the speaker's point of view to that of the hearer can be traced in the lexicogrammar through what Halliday calls the textual metafunction. There are two systems which govern the textual metafunction--which allow us to turn our own words into an experiencing of our own words. One is the system of Theme which is mostly realized in word order, and the other is the system of Information which is largely realized through tonic stress). In word order, the speaker must manage a transition from Theme (the starting point of the speaker) to Rheme (the endpoint, where the speaker hands over to the hearer. In stress, the speaker must go from unstressed from Given (information that is shared with the hearer) to stressed New (information which is being shared). The variation between "a" and "the" which Rod noted is just one example of this double transition: If I say "once upon a time there was a man (stressed); the man (unstressed) was a president", then "a man" is Rheme, and New iinformation in the first clause, but it is Theme and Given information in the second). Another example is the difference between "it" which can be used as Theme and as Given, and "that" which is used for Rheme and New: we can say "Look at THAT!" but we say "LOOK at it!" There are some interesting exceptions to this rule, though. That is, there are people who cannot seem to home in on context--who do not listen to themselves speak and do not manage to auto-adjust by taking in the hearer's point of view. As a consequence, they do not become more coherent as they speak, but less so. Here's an example. "I think the me?I think it?s terrible. You wanna know the truth? I think it?s a disgrace. What?s going on in this country. I think it?s a disgrace. The memo was sent to?Congress; it was declassified; Congress will do whatever?they?re going to do, but I think it?s a disgrace what?s happening in our country. And when you look at that and you see that and so many other things what?s (sic) going on?.uh lotta people should be ashamed of themselves and much worse than that. So I sent it over to Congress; they will do whatever they?re going to do; whatever they do is?fine; it was declassified and let?s see what happens. But a lot of people should be ashamed. Thank you very much." The speaker begins with the most common theme in English: "I". There is nothing particularly "egocentric" about this: it naturally follows on from the question which the hearer just asked the speaker. But when the speaker arrives at the Rheme, which should be "memo", something happens. "It" is indicative--it should refer to the memo. So it appears that the speaker is saying that the memo is terrible. But that wasn't actually what the speaker meant. The speaker tries, heroically, to take the hearer point of view in the next clause, with an empty phrase "You wanna know the truth". But he then follows this up with a statement which, if we follow the chain of endoporic reference, actually says that the memo is a disgrace. In order to avoid this implicature, the speaker avoids "homing in" on context and instead makes it broader--what's going on in this country." But then back to the memo. You must say something about the memo, because that was what the question was about. So you say something that is actually entirely Given information--without any New at all. But the hearer is expecting something New. One must say something new. So "That". "That on That". David Kellogg Recent Article in *Mind, Culture, and Activity* 24 (4) 'Metaphoric, Metonymic, Eclectic, or Dialectic? A Commentary on ?Neoformation: A Dialectical Approach to Developmental Change?' Free e-print available (for a short time only) at http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/YAWPBtmPM8knMCNg6sS6/full ________________________________ [http://www.plymouth.ac.uk/images/email_footer.gif] This email and any files with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the recipient to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient then copying, distribution or other use of the information contained is strictly prohibited and you should not rely on it. If you have received this email in error please let the sender know immediately and delete it from your system(s). Internet emails are not necessarily secure. While we take every care, Plymouth University accepts no responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan emails and their attachments. Plymouth University does not accept responsibility for any changes made after it was sent. Nothing in this email or its attachments constitutes an order for goods or services unless accompanied by an official order form. From dkellogg60@gmail.com Sun Feb 4 13:23:09 2018 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2018 06:23:09 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: That on That In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Rod: Halliday doesn't do CA--conversation analysis. He doesn't like the fussy transcription method, which he says only interferes with the ability to recreate the context of situation from the written record of text. So for example CA assumes that pauses, hiccups, restarts and so on are omnirelevant. Sometimes they are--I think that the jerkiness of Trump's topic management is partly realized by his pauses, hiccups, and restarts. But often they are not. So for example if a teacher is talking to a class of children about the Wallace Line that separates Indonesian flora and fauna from Australian, and a messenger arrives from the principal with a note about an upcoming air-raid drill, we have to say that the pause, hiccup, and restart is not contextually relevant (and in fact Ruqaiya Hasan insists that these are two completely different contexts of situation). It's pretty easy to show that for prelinguistic children and animals, prosody is omnirelevant (stress and intonation) and articulation (vowels and consonants) isn't--that's why Halliday doesn't approve of using IPA to transcribe infants. But for some forms of advanced literacy the relationship is the other way around: when you are reading this post, for example, you are deducing my intonation and stress from my vowels and consonants (and punctuation) and not the other way around--that's why Halliday thinks that CA transcription disrupts more than it adds to the analysis. And from this there occurs to me (because even when you are writing you are experiencing your own words as hearer) another distinction between Ruqaiya's "context of situation" and Vygotsky's social situation of development. I think that the big contribution of CA to linguistics was not the fussy transcription system, or the quaint methodological assumption that everything we need to know in an interaction is right "there" in an interaction and recoverable to all of the members and therefore to the analyst. I think that their biggest contribution was to teach us to learn to see conversation as structural cooperation rather than functional competition. Turn-taking is supra-grammatical collaboration, and not rhetorical survival of the fittest. The problem is that the social situation of development really is both. It is Vygotsky tells us, a tension between the child and the environment: a dialectical contradiction, even during stable periods, and a pretty ferocious form of war during some of the critical ones. I think that the whole relationship between growth and learning is tense in exactly this way: embryos grow but do not learn, and adults learn but do not grow, but the great dialectical contradiction of those little people caught in between is that children have to do both at the same time. One way of understanding why and how Vygotsky had to come up with concepts like "neoformation" and "social situation of development" is to read the kind of pedology he wrote when he didn't have these concepts yet. In "Pedology of the Adolescent", he argues that childhood is not natural, but invented. Humans invented childhood the way they invented language; women weaned children early in order to go back to work or to have more children or both, and that created a long period where children are consuming like an adult without being able to produce like one. This, as Barbara Rogoff would say, led to legitimate forms of peripheral participation; as Mariane Hedigaard would say, it led to children as explorers. At the other end of this period, though, there is the opposite contradiction: because of childhood, adolescents become ready to reproduce like adults long before they are socio-culturally able to. And so...as the late, great Florence Ballard said...."can't hurry love!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWAE9nrRhPc (Notice how the Supremes--still adolescents themselves--are a bit torn, when they dance, between physically interacting with each other, with the hearer, and with themselves. It seems to me that this reflects the indeterminate addresee of the lyrics....) David David Kellogg Recent Article in *Mind, Culture, and Activity* 24 (4) 'Metaphoric, Metonymic, Eclectic, or Dialectic? A Commentary on ?Neoformation: A Dialectical Approach to Developmental Change?' Free e-print available (for a short time only) at http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/YAWPBtmPM8knMCNg6sS6/full On Sun, Feb 4, 2018 at 8:55 PM, Rod Parker-Rees < R.Parker-Rees@plymouth.ac.uk> wrote: > David, > > On the question of 'experiencing our own words', I have been interested in > the extent to which we are also able to experience other people through our > experience of what they do to how we speak. The various adjustments which > we make, in the timing and rhythm of our speaking, our intonation and > accent and even our interpersonal timing and distance, are directly and > physically experienced and therefore available (albeit largely > unconsciously) to our memory of what interactions with this person feel > like. I believe (and I am sure you will know much more about this) that > linguists vary in terms of how much of this 'instancial', situation > specific context can or should be acknowledged in analyses of interactions. > While much can be read from the traces of interaction which can be captured > on paper, there is also much that is lost. Learning to read and write also > seems to shift our attention so that what can be recorded becomes more > significant, more thinkable and more important than the more > person/situation specific, evanescent context which, however, may be > particularly 'telling' when it comes to making sophisticated social > judgements about what someone MEANT by what they said. > > And of course, it may be that some people's social judgments are less > sophisticated than others'. > > All the best, > > Rod > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg > Sent: 03 February 2018 00:40 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] That on That > > When most of us speak, we try to "home in" on context--that is, we try to > listen to what we are saying not only from the point of view of the speaker > but also from the point of view of the hearer--who is part of the context > of situation--and we therefore try to elaborate, to exend, and to enhance > what we are saying from that point of view. Because speaking is a process > of realizing or completing thinking--not simply expressing some thought > that exists already in the mind--this process of transition from the > speaker's point of view to that of the hearer can be traced in the > lexicogrammar through what Halliday calls the textual metafunction. > There are two systems which govern the textual metafunction--which allow > us to turn our own words into an experiencing of our own words. One is the > system of Theme which is mostly realized in word order, and the other is > the system of Information which is largely realized through tonic stress). > In word order, the speaker must manage a transition from Theme (the > starting point of the speaker) to Rheme (the endpoint, where the speaker > hands over to the hearer. In stress, the speaker must go from unstressed > from Given (information that is shared with the hearer) to stressed New > (information which is being shared). The variation between "a" and "the" > which Rod noted is just one example of this double transition: If I say > "once upon a time there was a man (stressed); the man (unstressed) was a > president", then "a man" is Rheme, and New iinformation in the first > clause, but it is Theme and Given information in the second). Another > example is the difference between "it" which can be used as Theme and as > Given, and "that" which is used for Rheme and New: we can say "Look at > THAT!" but we say "LOOK at it!" > There are some interesting exceptions to this rule, though. That is, there > are people who cannot seem to home in on context--who do not listen to > themselves speak and do not manage to auto-adjust by taking in the hearer's > point of view. As a consequence, they do not become more coherent as they > speak, but less so. Here's an example. > "I think the me?I think it?s terrible. You wanna know the truth? I think > it?s a disgrace. What?s going on in this country. I think it?s a disgrace. > The memo was sent to?Congress; it was declassified; Congress will do > whatever?they?re going to do, but I think it?s a disgrace what?s happening > in our country. And when you look at that and you see that and so many > other things what?s (sic) going on?.uh lotta people should be ashamed of > themselves and much worse than that. So I sent it over to Congress; they > will do whatever they?re going to do; whatever they do is?fine; it was > declassified and let?s see what happens. But a lot of people should be > ashamed. Thank you very much." > The speaker begins with the most common theme in English: "I". There is > nothing particularly "egocentric" about this: it naturally follows on from > the question which the hearer just asked the speaker. But when the speaker > arrives at the Rheme, which should be "memo", something happens. "It" is > indicative--it should refer to the memo. So it appears that the speaker is > saying that the memo is terrible. But that wasn't actually what the speaker > meant. The speaker tries, heroically, to take the hearer point of view in > the next clause, with an empty phrase "You wanna know the truth". But he > then follows this up with a statement which, if we follow the chain of > endoporic reference, actually says that the memo is a disgrace. In order to > avoid this implicature, the speaker avoids "homing in" on context and > instead makes it broader--what's going on in this country." But then back > to the memo. You must say something about the memo, because that was what > the question was about. So you say something that is actually entirely > Given information--without any New at all. But the hearer is expecting > something New. One must say something new. So "That". "That on That". > > David Kellogg > > Recent Article in *Mind, Culture, and Activity* 24 (4) 'Metaphoric, > Metonymic, Eclectic, or Dialectic? A Commentary on ?Neoformation: A > Dialectical Approach to Developmental Change?' > > Free e-print available (for a short time only) at > > http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/YAWPBtmPM8knMCNg6sS6/full > ________________________________ > [http://www.plymouth.ac.uk/images/email_footer.gif] //www.plymouth.ac.uk/worldclass> > > This email and any files with it are confidential and intended solely for > the use of the recipient to whom it is addressed. If you are not the > intended recipient then copying, distribution or other use of the > information contained is strictly prohibited and you should not rely on it. > If you have received this email in error please let the sender know > immediately and delete it from your system(s). Internet emails are not > necessarily secure. While we take every care, Plymouth University accepts > no responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan emails > and their attachments. Plymouth University does not accept responsibility > for any changes made after it was sent. Nothing in this email or its > attachments constitutes an order for goods or services unless accompanied > by an official order form. > > From R.Parker-Rees@plymouth.ac.uk Mon Feb 5 02:24:38 2018 From: R.Parker-Rees@plymouth.ac.uk (Rod Parker-Rees) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2018 10:24:38 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: That on That In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: David, At the risk of bouncing off your fascinating observations at something of a tangent, I think your point, that rummaging around in the infinite regress of context may not be helpful when we are trying to understand what is going on in a conversation, underlines my point. Those traces of an interaction which are exportable, while they may be the most interesting and important if one is seeking to make generalizable observations, may not be sufficient to explain what goes on when minds meet. In 'Thinking and Speech', writing about the relationship between 'spontaneous' and 'scientific' (or 'schooled'?) concepts, Vygotsky observes that our spontaneous concepts, the fruits of our experiential sense-making, give colour and vitality to our understanding of the 'system' concepts which we learn to share with others. Without the undercurrents of different speakers different senses (smysl) the meanings which can be held in language would be no more than a labelling system. I would argue that our day to day interactions can take a huge variety of forms, understood in terms of the extent to which we are interested in what lies beneath the common form of people's words. Talk between teachers and students usually does not require or encourage a meeting of minds (although it might be a lot more effective if it did) and what is going on when singers perform a song and listeners listen to it is a whole other kettle of fish - how do you invite a listener to experience the feeling of intimacy? It may be one thing to do this when performing to people whose responses can be intimated but singing (and dancing) out into the darkness of a huge arena or to a studio camera/microphone must require a different kind of communication - so no wonder the Supremes (back in 1966 when the conventions for broadcasting were still quite rough around the edges) look as if they are not sure who they are looking at and singing to. This issue, of the nature of the relationship between public/exportable and private/intimate aspects of interactions, keeps reminding me of a paper in 'Early Years' by Annica Lofdahl and Hector Prieto (http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09575140903161438) which explores the socio-political consequences of requiring Swedish nurseries to publish 'Quality Accounts', to show the world what they are doing. What this paper shows very clearly is how a focus on what can be made public serves to shift the nature of interactions between caregivers and between caregivers and children (we saw the same in the UK when the introduction of the Early Years Foundation Stage resulted in practitioners using the documentation as if it were a checklist of behaviours which they had to capture, record and document in order to provide evidence of children's progress). Some aspects of practice, which felt important to caregivers 'on the floor', were not suitable for inclusion in the Quality Accounts, either because they could not easily be documented in ways which would be meaningful outside the context ('you had to be there, man') or because they were too confidential to be broadcast abroad. What is most significant, however, is the authors observation that knowing they would have to provide an account of what they did was enough to alter caregivers' practices, leading them to prioritise more publishable kinds of interactions. I can see that this might look, from outside, like a positive transformation - helping to make caregivers more 'accountable' but I can't help feeling that a very high price may have been paid in terms of the shift from 'here-and-now' person focused interactions to more professional, 'them out there' focused behaviours. As Niels Bohr noted, you can have 'Klarheit' or you can have 'Richtigkeit' -clarity or 'rightness' - but not both - and clarity always seems more important to 'them out there'. All the best, Rod -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg Sent: 04 February 2018 21:23 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: That on That Rod: Halliday doesn't do CA--conversation analysis. He doesn't like the fussy transcription method, which he says only interferes with the ability to recreate the context of situation from the written record of text. So for example CA assumes that pauses, hiccups, restarts and so on are omnirelevant. Sometimes they are--I think that the jerkiness of Trump's topic management is partly realized by his pauses, hiccups, and restarts. But often they are not. So for example if a teacher is talking to a class of children about the Wallace Line that separates Indonesian flora and fauna from Australian, and a messenger arrives from the principal with a note about an upcoming air-raid drill, we have to say that the pause, hiccup, and restart is not contextually relevant (and in fact Ruqaiya Hasan insists that these are two completely different contexts of situation). It's pretty easy to show that for prelinguistic children and animals, prosody is omnirelevant (stress and intonation) and articulation (vowels and consonants) isn't--that's why Halliday doesn't approve of using IPA to transcribe infants. But for some forms of advanced literacy the relationship is the other way around: when you are reading this post, for example, you are deducing my intonation and stress from my vowels and consonants (and punctuation) and not the other way around--that's why Halliday thinks that CA transcription disrupts more than it adds to the analysis. And from this there occurs to me (because even when you are writing you are experiencing your own words as hearer) another distinction between Ruqaiya's "context of situation" and Vygotsky's social situation of development. I think that the big contribution of CA to linguistics was not the fussy transcription system, or the quaint methodological assumption that everything we need to know in an interaction is right "there" in an interaction and recoverable to all of the members and therefore to the analyst. I think that their biggest contribution was to teach us to learn to see conversation as structural cooperation rather than functional competition. Turn-taking is supra-grammatical collaboration, and not rhetorical survival of the fittest. The problem is that the social situation of development really is both. It is Vygotsky tells us, a tension between the child and the environment: a dialectical contradiction, even during stable periods, and a pretty ferocious form of war during some of the critical ones. I think that the whole relationship between growth and learning is tense in exactly this way: embryos grow but do not learn, and adults learn but do not grow, but the great dialectical contradiction of those little people caught in between is that children have to do both at the same time. One way of understanding why and how Vygotsky had to come up with concepts like "neoformation" and "social situation of development" is to read the kind of pedology he wrote when he didn't have these concepts yet. In "Pedology of the Adolescent", he argues that childhood is not natural, but invented. Humans invented childhood the way they invented language; women weaned children early in order to go back to work or to have more children or both, and that created a long period where children are consuming like an adult without being able to produce like one. This, as Barbara Rogoff would say, led to legitimate forms of peripheral participation; as Mariane Hedigaard would say, it led to children as explorers. At the other end of this period, though, there is the opposite contradiction: because of childhood, adolescents become ready to reproduce like adults long before they are socio-culturally able to. And so...as the late, great Florence Ballard said...."can't hurry love!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWAE9nrRhPc (Notice how the Supremes--still adolescents themselves--are a bit torn, when they dance, between physically interacting with each other, with the hearer, and with themselves. It seems to me that this reflects the indeterminate addresee of the lyrics....) David David Kellogg Recent Article in *Mind, Culture, and Activity* 24 (4) 'Metaphoric, Metonymic, Eclectic, or Dialectic? A Commentary on ?Neoformation: A Dialectical Approach to Developmental Change?' Free e-print available (for a short time only) at http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/YAWPBtmPM8knMCNg6sS6/full On Sun, Feb 4, 2018 at 8:55 PM, Rod Parker-Rees < R.Parker-Rees@plymouth.ac.uk> wrote: > David, > > On the question of 'experiencing our own words', I have been > interested in the extent to which we are also able to experience other > people through our experience of what they do to how we speak. The > various adjustments which we make, in the timing and rhythm of our > speaking, our intonation and accent and even our interpersonal timing > and distance, are directly and physically experienced and therefore > available (albeit largely > unconsciously) to our memory of what interactions with this person > feel like. I believe (and I am sure you will know much more about > this) that linguists vary in terms of how much of this 'instancial', > situation specific context can or should be acknowledged in analyses of interactions. > While much can be read from the traces of interaction which can be > captured on paper, there is also much that is lost. Learning to read > and write also seems to shift our attention so that what can be > recorded becomes more significant, more thinkable and more important > than the more person/situation specific, evanescent context which, > however, may be particularly 'telling' when it comes to making > sophisticated social judgements about what someone MEANT by what they said. > > And of course, it may be that some people's social judgments are less > sophisticated than others'. > > All the best, > > Rod > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg > Sent: 03 February 2018 00:40 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] That on That > > When most of us speak, we try to "home in" on context--that is, we > try to listen to what we are saying not only from the point of view of > the speaker but also from the point of view of the hearer--who is part > of the context of situation--and we therefore try to elaborate, to > exend, and to enhance what we are saying from that point of view. > Because speaking is a process of realizing or completing thinking--not > simply expressing some thought that exists already in the mind--this > process of transition from the speaker's point of view to that of the > hearer can be traced in the lexicogrammar through what Halliday calls the textual metafunction. > There are two systems which govern the textual metafunction--which > allow us to turn our own words into an experiencing of our own words. > One is the system of Theme which is mostly realized in word order, and > the other is the system of Information which is largely realized through tonic stress). > In word order, the speaker must manage a transition from Theme (the > starting point of the speaker) to Rheme (the endpoint, where the > speaker hands over to the hearer. In stress, the speaker must go from > unstressed from Given (information that is shared with the hearer) to > stressed New (information which is being shared). The variation between "a" and "the" > which Rod noted is just one example of this double transition: If I > say "once upon a time there was a man (stressed); the man (unstressed) > was a president", then "a man" is Rheme, and New iinformation in the > first clause, but it is Theme and Given information in the second). > Another example is the difference between "it" which can be used as > Theme and as Given, and "that" which is used for Rheme and New: we can > say "Look at THAT!" but we say "LOOK at it!" > There are some interesting exceptions to this rule, though. That is, > there are people who cannot seem to home in on context--who do not > listen to themselves speak and do not manage to auto-adjust by taking > in the hearer's point of view. As a consequence, they do not become > more coherent as they speak, but less so. Here's an example. > "I think the me?I think it?s terrible. You wanna know the truth? I > think it?s a disgrace. What?s going on in this country. I think it?s a disgrace. > The memo was sent to?Congress; it was declassified; Congress will do > whatever?they?re going to do, but I think it?s a disgrace what?s > happening in our country. And when you look at that and you see that > and so many other things what?s (sic) going on?.uh lotta people should > be ashamed of themselves and much worse than that. So I sent it over > to Congress; they will do whatever they?re going to do; whatever they > do is?fine; it was declassified and let?s see what happens. But a lot > of people should be ashamed. Thank you very much." > The speaker begins with the most common theme in English: "I". There > is nothing particularly "egocentric" about this: it naturally follows > on from the question which the hearer just asked the speaker. But > when the speaker arrives at the Rheme, which should be "memo", > something happens. "It" is indicative--it should refer to the memo. So > it appears that the speaker is saying that the memo is terrible. But > that wasn't actually what the speaker meant. The speaker tries, > heroically, to take the hearer point of view in the next clause, with > an empty phrase "You wanna know the truth". But he then follows this > up with a statement which, if we follow the chain of endoporic > reference, actually says that the memo is a disgrace. In order to > avoid this implicature, the speaker avoids "homing in" on context and > instead makes it broader--what's going on in this country." But then > back to the memo. You must say something about the memo, because that > was what the question was about. So you say something that is actually > entirely Given information--without any New at all. But the hearer is expecting something New. One must say something new. So "That". "That on That". > > David Kellogg > > Recent Article in *Mind, Culture, and Activity* 24 (4) 'Metaphoric, > Metonymic, Eclectic, or Dialectic? A Commentary on ?Neoformation: A > Dialectical Approach to Developmental Change?' > > Free e-print available (for a short time only) at > > http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/YAWPBtmPM8knMCNg6sS6/full > ________________________________ > [http://www.plymouth.ac.uk/images/email_footer.gif] //www.plymouth.ac.uk/worldclass> > > This email and any files with it are confidential and intended solely > for the use of the recipient to whom it is addressed. If you are not > the intended recipient then copying, distribution or other use of the > information contained is strictly prohibited and you should not rely on it. > If you have received this email in error please let the sender know > immediately and delete it from your system(s). Internet emails are not > necessarily secure. While we take every care, Plymouth University > accepts no responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to > scan emails and their attachments. Plymouth University does not accept > responsibility for any changes made after it was sent. Nothing in this > email or its attachments constitutes an order for goods or services > unless accompanied by an official order form. > > ________________________________ [http://www.plymouth.ac.uk/images/email_footer.gif] This email and any files with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the recipient to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient then copying, distribution or other use of the information contained is strictly prohibited and you should not rely on it. If you have received this email in error please let the sender know immediately and delete it from your system(s). Internet emails are not necessarily secure. While we take every care, Plymouth University accepts no responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan emails and their attachments. Plymouth University does not accept responsibility for any changes made after it was sent. Nothing in this email or its attachments constitutes an order for goods or services unless accompanied by an official order form. From dkellogg60@gmail.com Mon Feb 5 15:03:27 2018 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2018 08:03:27 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: That on That In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Rod: Yes, a great article! I will certainly recommend it to my friends in the progressive teachers' union; there is still this strong belief that somehow Scandinavia presents a social-democratic model for Korean education, and people don't realize how thoroughly and extensively the progressive education system there has been privatized, marketized, and consequently corrupted. To overthrow Marxist thinking Soviet education required a major social transformation, but in Norway, Denmark, Sweden and Finland all it took was a handful of disgruntled voters to flip to coalition governments beholden to splinter right wing parties, and the educational system was very often an easily sacrificed pawn in the electoral game. Performativity is a problem with early years, because it results in real distortions in the process of mastering culture. I think, for historical reasons, our Russian friends tend to emphasize the instrumental aspects of mediated activity with toddlers. When I try to use the spoon example that impresses them so much with people in Korea and in China, it doesn't have the same effect at all, because spoons are essentially a crutch; a way of getting by until the child's hands are large enough to manipulate chopsticks. It's a little like an account of learning to ride a bicycle which makes the training wheels the goal of the activity: in the Galperin account, the tool is not so much a transitional "scaffold" to be dismantled as soon as possible as a permanent fixture. In Western literature--even in systemic functional accounts like the work of Geoff Williams--reading aloud is emphasized in work on children's literature, but what is emphasized is not the transition to silent reading but the enhancement of the relationship between the child and the adult. I think emphasizing the central role of the adult really does have a long term consequence, akiin to the idea of performativity in preschool evaluation, in the making and marketing of children's literature which is really aimed at holding the attention of the paying adult accompanying the child. This is part of the problem with "Finding Dory"--adults can't seem to get their heads around the fact that children find perfectly mundane activities enthralling so long as they can play an active role, and that is exactly what turning every children's story into a parable for adults prevents them from doing. And I think that one of the long term consequences is that the producers of the literature are a little like the Supremes--they have their message muddled, becuase they are addressing two very different interlocutors and creating two very different contexts of situation at one and the same time. Weirdly, I think the solution lies in the construction of the novel: novelists have had to figure out how to concatenate the way in which the characters address each other and the way in which the narrator addresses the reader, and the solution that Jane Austen and George Eliot worked out was to have a fairly "here and now" register between characters and a "there and then" one with the reader. This really has to be reversed when we read to children--it's much more like what we find in Virginia Woolf. If that example is too literary, though, you can simply compare the way that Diana Ross interacts with Flo Ballard when she says "Mama said..." with the way she interacts with us when she is supposedly pining away for lack of love but with a big smile on her face. In one case, the syntax is short and sweet, and the words map right onto the gesture, but in the other case things are really not so clear at all. David On Mon, Feb 5, 2018 at 7:24 PM, Rod Parker-Rees < R.Parker-Rees@plymouth.ac.uk> wrote: > David, > > At the risk of bouncing off your fascinating observations at something of > a tangent, I think your point, that rummaging around in the infinite > regress of context may not be helpful when we are trying to understand what > is going on in a conversation, underlines my point. Those traces of an > interaction which are exportable, while they may be the most interesting > and important if one is seeking to make generalizable observations, may not > be sufficient to explain what goes on when minds meet. In 'Thinking and > Speech', writing about the relationship between 'spontaneous' and > 'scientific' (or 'schooled'?) concepts, Vygotsky observes that our > spontaneous concepts, the fruits of our experiential sense-making, give > colour and vitality to our understanding of the 'system' concepts which we > learn to share with others. Without the undercurrents of different speakers > different senses (smysl) the meanings which can be held in language would > be no more than a labelling system. I would argue that our day to day > interactions can take a huge variety of forms, understood in terms of the > extent to which we are interested in what lies beneath the common form of > people's words. Talk between teachers and students usually does not require > or encourage a meeting of minds (although it might be a lot more effective > if it did) and what is going on when singers perform a song and listeners > listen to it is a whole other kettle of fish - how do you invite a listener > to experience the feeling of intimacy? It may be one thing to do this when > performing to people whose responses can be intimated but singing (and > dancing) out into the darkness of a huge arena or to a studio > camera/microphone must require a different kind of communication - so no > wonder the Supremes (back in 1966 when the conventions for broadcasting > were still quite rough around the edges) look as if they are not sure who > they are looking at and singing to. > > This issue, of the nature of the relationship between public/exportable > and private/intimate aspects of interactions, keeps reminding me of a paper > in 'Early Years' by Annica Lofdahl and Hector Prieto ( > http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09575140903161438) which > explores the socio-political consequences of requiring Swedish nurseries to > publish 'Quality Accounts', to show the world what they are doing. What > this paper shows very clearly is how a focus on what can be made public > serves to shift the nature of interactions between caregivers and between > caregivers and children (we saw the same in the UK when the introduction of > the Early Years Foundation Stage resulted in practitioners using the > documentation as if it were a checklist of behaviours which they had to > capture, record and document in order to provide evidence of children's > progress). Some aspects of practice, which felt important to caregivers 'on > the floor', were not suitable for inclusion in the Quality Accounts, either > because they could not easily be documented in ways which would be > meaningful outside the context ('you had to be there, man') or because they > were too confidential to be broadcast abroad. What is most significant, > however, is the authors observation that knowing they would have to provide > an account of what they did was enough to alter caregivers' practices, > leading them to prioritise more publishable kinds of interactions. I can > see that this might look, from outside, like a positive transformation - > helping to make caregivers more 'accountable' but I can't help feeling that > a very high price may have been paid in terms of the shift from > 'here-and-now' person focused interactions to more professional, 'them out > there' focused behaviours. As Niels Bohr noted, you can have 'Klarheit' or > you can have 'Richtigkeit' -clarity or 'rightness' - but not both - and > clarity always seems more important to 'them out there'. > > All the best, > > Rod > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg > Sent: 04 February 2018 21:23 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: That on That > > Rod: > > Halliday doesn't do CA--conversation analysis. He doesn't like the fussy > transcription method, which he says only interferes with the ability to > recreate the context of situation from the written record of text. So for > example CA assumes that pauses, hiccups, restarts and so on are > omnirelevant. Sometimes they are--I think that the jerkiness of Trump's > topic management is partly realized by his pauses, hiccups, and restarts. > But often they are not. So for example if a teacher is talking to a class > of children about the Wallace Line that separates Indonesian flora and > fauna from Australian, and a messenger arrives from the principal with a > note about an upcoming air-raid drill, we have to say that the pause, > hiccup, and restart is not contextually relevant (and in fact Ruqaiya Hasan > insists that these are two completely different contexts of situation). > It's pretty easy to show that for prelinguistic children and animals, > prosody is omnirelevant (stress and intonation) and articulation (vowels > and consonants) isn't--that's why Halliday doesn't approve of using IPA to > transcribe infants. But for some forms of advanced literacy the > relationship is the other way around: when you are reading this post, for > example, you are deducing my intonation and stress from my vowels and > consonants (and punctuation) and not the other way around--that's why > Halliday thinks that CA transcription disrupts more than it adds to the > analysis. > > And from this there occurs to me (because even when you are writing you > are experiencing your own words as hearer) another distinction between > Ruqaiya's "context of situation" and Vygotsky's social situation of > development. I think that the big contribution of CA to linguistics was not > the fussy transcription system, or the quaint methodological assumption > that everything we need to know in an interaction is right "there" in an > interaction and recoverable to all of the members and therefore to the > analyst. I think that their biggest contribution was to teach us to learn > to see conversation as structural cooperation rather than functional > competition. Turn-taking is supra-grammatical collaboration, and not > rhetorical survival of the fittest. The problem is that the social > situation of development really is both. It is Vygotsky tells us, a > tension between the child and the environment: a dialectical contradiction, > even during stable periods, and a pretty ferocious form of war during some > of the critical ones. I think that the whole relationship between growth > and learning is tense in exactly this way: embryos grow but do not learn, > and adults learn but do not grow, but the great dialectical contradiction > of those little people caught in between is that children have to do both > at the same time. > > One way of understanding why and how Vygotsky had to come up with concepts > like "neoformation" and "social situation of development" is to read the > kind of pedology he wrote when he didn't have these concepts yet. In > "Pedology of the Adolescent", he argues that childhood is not natural, but > invented. Humans invented childhood the way they invented language; women > weaned children early in order to go back to work or to have more children > or both, and that created a long period where children are consuming like > an adult without being able to produce like one. This, as Barbara Rogoff > would say, led to legitimate forms of peripheral participation; as Mariane > Hedigaard would say, it led to children as explorers. At the other end of > this period, though, there is the opposite contradiction: because of > childhood, adolescents become ready to reproduce like adults long before > they are socio-culturally able to. And so...as the late, great Florence > Ballard said...."can't hurry love!" > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWAE9nrRhPc > > (Notice how the Supremes--still adolescents themselves--are a bit torn, > when they dance, between physically interacting with each other, with the > hearer, and with themselves. It seems to me that this reflects the > indeterminate addresee of the lyrics....) > > David > > > > David Kellogg > > Recent Article in *Mind, Culture, and Activity* 24 (4) 'Metaphoric, > Metonymic, Eclectic, or Dialectic? A Commentary on ?Neoformation: A > Dialectical Approach to Developmental Change?' > > Free e-print available (for a short time only) at > > http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/YAWPBtmPM8knMCNg6sS6/full > > > On Sun, Feb 4, 2018 at 8:55 PM, Rod Parker-Rees < > R.Parker-Rees@plymouth.ac.uk> wrote: > > > David, > > > > On the question of 'experiencing our own words', I have been > > interested in the extent to which we are also able to experience other > > people through our experience of what they do to how we speak. The > > various adjustments which we make, in the timing and rhythm of our > > speaking, our intonation and accent and even our interpersonal timing > > and distance, are directly and physically experienced and therefore > > available (albeit largely > > unconsciously) to our memory of what interactions with this person > > feel like. I believe (and I am sure you will know much more about > > this) that linguists vary in terms of how much of this 'instancial', > > situation specific context can or should be acknowledged in analyses of > interactions. > > While much can be read from the traces of interaction which can be > > captured on paper, there is also much that is lost. Learning to read > > and write also seems to shift our attention so that what can be > > recorded becomes more significant, more thinkable and more important > > than the more person/situation specific, evanescent context which, > > however, may be particularly 'telling' when it comes to making > > sophisticated social judgements about what someone MEANT by what they > said. > > > > And of course, it may be that some people's social judgments are less > > sophisticated than others'. > > > > All the best, > > > > Rod > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg > > Sent: 03 February 2018 00:40 > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] That on That > > > > When most of us speak, we try to "home in" on context--that is, we > > try to listen to what we are saying not only from the point of view of > > the speaker but also from the point of view of the hearer--who is part > > of the context of situation--and we therefore try to elaborate, to > > exend, and to enhance what we are saying from that point of view. > > Because speaking is a process of realizing or completing thinking--not > > simply expressing some thought that exists already in the mind--this > > process of transition from the speaker's point of view to that of the > > hearer can be traced in the lexicogrammar through what Halliday calls > the textual metafunction. > > There are two systems which govern the textual metafunction--which > > allow us to turn our own words into an experiencing of our own words. > > One is the system of Theme which is mostly realized in word order, and > > the other is the system of Information which is largely realized through > tonic stress). > > In word order, the speaker must manage a transition from Theme (the > > starting point of the speaker) to Rheme (the endpoint, where the > > speaker hands over to the hearer. In stress, the speaker must go from > > unstressed from Given (information that is shared with the hearer) to > > stressed New (information which is being shared). The variation between > "a" and "the" > > which Rod noted is just one example of this double transition: If I > > say "once upon a time there was a man (stressed); the man (unstressed) > > was a president", then "a man" is Rheme, and New iinformation in the > > first clause, but it is Theme and Given information in the second). > > Another example is the difference between "it" which can be used as > > Theme and as Given, and "that" which is used for Rheme and New: we can > > say "Look at THAT!" but we say "LOOK at it!" > > There are some interesting exceptions to this rule, though. That is, > > there are people who cannot seem to home in on context--who do not > > listen to themselves speak and do not manage to auto-adjust by taking > > in the hearer's point of view. As a consequence, they do not become > > more coherent as they speak, but less so. Here's an example. > > "I think the me?I think it?s terrible. You wanna know the truth? I > > think it?s a disgrace. What?s going on in this country. I think it?s a > disgrace. > > The memo was sent to?Congress; it was declassified; Congress will do > > whatever?they?re going to do, but I think it?s a disgrace what?s > > happening in our country. And when you look at that and you see that > > and so many other things what?s (sic) going on?.uh lotta people should > > be ashamed of themselves and much worse than that. So I sent it over > > to Congress; they will do whatever they?re going to do; whatever they > > do is?fine; it was declassified and let?s see what happens. But a lot > > of people should be ashamed. Thank you very much." > > The speaker begins with the most common theme in English: "I". There > > is nothing particularly "egocentric" about this: it naturally follows > > on from the question which the hearer just asked the speaker. But > > when the speaker arrives at the Rheme, which should be "memo", > > something happens. "It" is indicative--it should refer to the memo. So > > it appears that the speaker is saying that the memo is terrible. But > > that wasn't actually what the speaker meant. The speaker tries, > > heroically, to take the hearer point of view in the next clause, with > > an empty phrase "You wanna know the truth". But he then follows this > > up with a statement which, if we follow the chain of endoporic > > reference, actually says that the memo is a disgrace. In order to > > avoid this implicature, the speaker avoids "homing in" on context and > > instead makes it broader--what's going on in this country." But then > > back to the memo. You must say something about the memo, because that > > was what the question was about. So you say something that is actually > > entirely Given information--without any New at all. But the hearer is > expecting something New. One must say something new. So "That". "That on > That". > > > > David Kellogg > > > > Recent Article in *Mind, Culture, and Activity* 24 (4) 'Metaphoric, > > Metonymic, Eclectic, or Dialectic? A Commentary on ?Neoformation: A > > Dialectical Approach to Developmental Change?' > > > > Free e-print available (for a short time only) at > > > > http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/YAWPBtmPM8knMCNg6sS6/full > > ________________________________ > > [http://www.plymouth.ac.uk/images/email_footer.gif] > //www.plymouth.ac.uk/worldclass> > > > > This email and any files with it are confidential and intended solely > > for the use of the recipient to whom it is addressed. If you are not > > the intended recipient then copying, distribution or other use of the > > information contained is strictly prohibited and you should not rely on > it. > > If you have received this email in error please let the sender know > > immediately and delete it from your system(s). Internet emails are not > > necessarily secure. While we take every care, Plymouth University > > accepts no responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to > > scan emails and their attachments. Plymouth University does not accept > > responsibility for any changes made after it was sent. Nothing in this > > email or its attachments constitutes an order for goods or services > > unless accompanied by an official order form. > > > > > ________________________________ > [http://www.plymouth.ac.uk/images/email_footer.gif] //www.plymouth.ac.uk/worldclass> > > This email and any files with it are confidential and intended solely for > the use of the recipient to whom it is addressed. If you are not the > intended recipient then copying, distribution or other use of the > information contained is strictly prohibited and you should not rely on it. > If you have received this email in error please let the sender know > immediately and delete it from your system(s). Internet emails are not > necessarily secure. While we take every care, Plymouth University accepts > no responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan emails > and their attachments. Plymouth University does not accept responsibility > for any changes made after it was sent. Nothing in this email or its > attachments constitutes an order for goods or services unless accompanied > by an official order form. > > From ablunden@mira.net Tue Feb 6 01:37:29 2018 From: ablunden@mira.net (Andy Blunden) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2018 20:37:29 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "Context" or Object of activity In-Reply-To: References: <0dc79f2d-1447-51b1-25f8-efc653d43a46@mira.net> <1334879954.344775.1517399665156@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <33f076e0-ac86-aec4-b691-b4a68e15e843@mira.net> I lost interest in this discussion about "context" and went back to writing up the chapter of my current book project of "formations of consciousness." And then I think I realised why I was just not getting what people were talking about with "context" and why my ideas (apart from their remoteness to the interpretation of writers like Bronfenbrenner) found so little resonance with others on this list. Then I realised, if you are a psychologist then your interest is in understanding the actions of a given individual, i.e., that individual is the subject matter. Being cultural psychologists and not rat-racers, it is blindingly obvious that the context of the individual's action is part of the subject matter being researched. My efforts at criticising the concept of "context" were therefore futile. I am not a psychologist (and if I am, I am a very poor one!). My starting point, my subject matter is social change and my unit of analysis is "projects" or "social formations" or "activities" or whatever (according to the precise theoretical frame). I approach the understanding of the actions of individuals in terms of the individual being the immediate being of a number of formations of which they are a part. So if the question is why is this Latino boy in San Diego having trouble learning to read, Of Course, you need to know the context, both immediate - the American Anglophone education system for example, and the important distal context of the boy upbringing a Latino community. But his experiences are in the main just like those of thousands of others like himself, in which these two projects interact in a similar way - a process which can only be studied through the actions of the various individuals instantiating this interaction. That's not what I call "context" though. It is the subject matter itself. Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm On 3/02/2018 9:01 AM, David Kellogg wrote: > Rod: > > Yes, that's the issue I was raising. What KIND of context--a context of > situation, in which exophora, visiographic representation, and sense can > predominate? Or a context of culture, in which endophora, concepts, and > signification rule? But of course in between them there is a continuum, not > a vaccuum. And in between segments of the continuum, there are gaps and > crises to be navigated by the developing child. (One of these, the moment > when a child realizes that a question has to be answered rather than > repeated, is discussed in my forthcoming article in your journal, but there > is another even more interesting one I am writing about--the moment when a > child realizes that you can switch names with your little sister, and even > call you mother "Daddy"!) > > It seems to me that this issue is clearly linked to the issues that Mike > was raising. > > a) Mike says that there must be some relationship between context (of > situation, of situation-type, of culture) and social situation of > development. I think that a social situation of development is an age > specific situation-type: that is, it is the ensemble of social relations > between the child and the environment that are specific to a given > developmental age. I don't think these are simply terminological variants, > because--first of all--the SSD is part of Vygotsky's pedological > periodization scheme, and therefore age specific, and--secondly--the SSD is > not a specific situation or a culture (that is, the ensemble of all > possible situations for a particular speech community) but something in > between (though obviously the SSD of a child in early years is closer to > the context-of-situation pole and the SSD of the adolescent is closer to > the context-of-culture pole). > > b) Mike says that Vygotsky can be read as a contextualist (and not a > mechanist or even an organicist). I think he can, but not if we consider > context as an undifferentiated category, which is what Andy is doing when > he claims that context is always unbounded. On the contrary--it's much more > useful to think of context as always bounded, but whose boundaries go from > all of the actual, sensuous boundaries of the material-situational setting > (which is the case for a child before he or she learns to speak) to the > highly abstract boundaries we see when we consider a context of culture as > all of the things which may be potentially chosen as meaningful (as I said, > there are real boundaries here too--e.g. the category of a Proper Verb > corresponding to proper nouns, which isn't meaningful in our culture, > although it could be. But the boundaries are constantly changing because > our ability to mean is constantly expanding (and by the way the fact that > our ability to mean is constantly expanding makes no sense unless you > accept that our ability to mean does have boundaries). > > c) Mike says that context includes elements of phylogenesis alongside > sociogenesis and of course "microgenesis" (I confess that I don't like the > term microgenesis, because I think it confuses what the Gestaltists called > Aktuelgenese with what Halliday calls "logogenesis",w hich is the expansion > of meaning in real time. To return to the point you are making about the > richness of the tapestry of context that a French speaker has when she or > he has grown up near the Musee de Cluny (the unicorns!) or the Bayeux > tapestry (but I hear this is going to tour England now). A good tapestry > has at least two different kinds of threads (the old ones actually used > many layers, like a palimpsest, and some layers were designed for > washability while others were for strength). Unlike me, Vygotsky DOES use a > lot of etymology in his discussion of how children develop new forms of > meaning (e.g. his discussion of Mondegreens in Chapter 6 of HDHMF). > > Ruqaiya Hasan doesn't praise Vygotsky not for the usual thing that people > see in him--a firm grasp of the obvious, and even tautological, facts of > the sociogenesis of mind. Instead she appreciates what she calls (somewhat > unfortunately) his "biogenetic" approach: his ability to see development > from the phylogenetic, sociogenetic, and logogenetic angle all at the same > time, without ever forgetting that although they are all one and the same > thing--just different forms of change over time--they can still look > very very very different and consequently mean very different things to the > child and to the ensemble of social relations in which the chld is > enmeshed. I think Hasan appreciated that this was not only Marxism but > genius Marxism. One of the things I really didn't agree with her on was > Salman Rushdie, an author I still love and that she had a strong dislike > for. In Midnight's Children, Rushdie talks about the magicians in the > market of Mumbai (who I can still remember from when I was a little child > in what was called Bombay). The magicians are all members of the Indian > Communist Party, so they have this uncanny, but self-critical, ability to > magically bend reality to their will without ever forgetting that magic > doesn't really exist. > > But you said that already, didn't you? > > dk > > > > David Kellogg > > Recent Article in *Mind, Culture, and Activity* 24 (4) 'Metaphoric, > Metonymic, Eclectic, or Dialectic? A Commentary on ?Neoformation: A > Dialectical Approach to Developmental Change?' > > Free e-print available (for a short time only) at > > http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/YAWPBtmPM8knMCNg6sS6/full > > > From Peg.Griffin@att.net Tue Feb 6 13:17:11 2018 From: Peg.Griffin@att.net (Peg Griffin) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2018 16:17:11 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Bill Teale Message-ID: <006b01d39f8f$dae27410$90a75c30$@att.net> In case you haven't heard, Bill Teale who had worked at LCHC in San Diego died unexpectedly this past weekend. https://www.literacyworldwide.org/blog%2fliteracy-daily%2f2018%2f02%2f05%2fadvocate-leader-humanitarian-ila-mourns-the-loss-of-dr.-william-h.-teale https://www.literacyworldwide.org/blog%2fliteracy-daily%2f2018%2f02%2f06%2fremembering-dr.-william-h.-teale From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Tue Feb 6 13:39:36 2018 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2018 21:39:36 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Bill Teale In-Reply-To: <006b01d39f8f$dae27410$90a75c30$@att.net> References: <006b01d39f8f$dae27410$90a75c30$@att.net> Message-ID: <1517953176343.67922@iped.uio.no> Very sorry to hear these sad news, Peg, and thanks for sharing. Alfredo ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Peg Griffin Sent: 06 February 2018 22:17 To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' Subject: [Xmca-l] Bill Teale In case you haven't heard, Bill Teale who had worked at LCHC in San Diego died unexpectedly this past weekend. https://www.literacyworldwide.org/blog%2fliteracy-daily%2f2018%2f02%2f05%2fadvocate-leader-humanitarian-ila-mourns-the-loss-of-dr.-william-h.-teale https://www.literacyworldwide.org/blog%2fliteracy-daily%2f2018%2f02%2f06%2fremembering-dr.-william-h.-teale From mcole@ucsd.edu Tue Feb 6 19:57:53 2018 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2018 19:57:53 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Bill Teale In-Reply-To: <1517953176343.67922@iped.uio.no> References: <006b01d39f8f$dae27410$90a75c30$@att.net> <1517953176343.67922@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: I am sorry to learn of Bill's passing, Peg, but thank you for passing along the word. I remember well his work with folks studying early literacy experiences in the home during LCHC's early years at UCSD. I did not know about some of his later work described in the article. I knew his work best when he was developing the idea of emergent literacy which followed nicely the work that Lonnie Anderson and his groups were doing. Passing generations. mike On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 1:39 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > Very sorry to hear these sad news, Peg, and thanks for sharing. > Alfredo > ________________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Peg Griffin > Sent: 06 February 2018 22:17 > To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' > Subject: [Xmca-l] Bill Teale > > In case you haven't heard, Bill Teale who had worked at LCHC in San Diego > died unexpectedly this past weekend. > https://www.literacyworldwide.org/blog%2fliteracy-daily% > 2f2018%2f02%2f05%2fadvocate-leader-humanitarian-ila- > mourns-the-loss-of-dr.-william-h.-teale > https://www.literacyworldwide.org/blog%2fliteracy-daily%2f2018%2f02%2f06% > 2fremembering-dr.-william-h.-teale > > > > > From R.Parker-Rees@plymouth.ac.uk Wed Feb 7 03:14:46 2018 From: R.Parker-Rees@plymouth.ac.uk (Rod Parker-Rees) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2018 11:14:46 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: That on That In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: David, I think reading with children provides a lovely example of how the form of an intimate social interaction is shaped by the broader social context. It is now pretty much impossible for a teacher in a nursery or Reception class in England to read a story with a group of children for the sake of enjoying a cosy social interaction together. As soon as a book appears the focus has to be on teaching children to read (and this now tends to mean teaching children to sound out words with systemic phonics). Parents are also encouraged to see reading with their children as a kind of homework, aimed at accelerating their literacy development. Instead of enhancing the relationship between child and adult or modelling the pleasures of cosy social interactions, mediated by books, this can teach children that books=work=stress all round. As to the complicated nature of who addresses whom in a picture book designed to be read with a child, I think the best authors have understood that they need to make the experience enjoyable for the adult as well as for the child. Introducing some playful interaction between text and images or including associations which may be 'telling' for adult readers can help to draw the adult in but often the child's enjoyment will be enough reward to make the sharing a positive experience. Where the author is heavy handed with 'nudge nudge' references which are clearly intended to go over the child's head the book is, I think, less likely to stand the test of repeated readings and become a favourite. Like the spoon and chopsticks or the stabilisers and the bike, reading a book together can be seen as a crutch, scaffolding the child's learning to read independently but it can also be seen as an opportunity to share interests and meanings, a way of enriching the 'here and now' of the adult-child interaction with the 'there and then' of interesting stuff to talk about. If the adult is focused on teaching the child to read, on the book or even on the story, the 'sharing' may be both less enjoyable and less culturally informative than if the focus is on the child or on the interaction. Isn't this also the case for any face to face interaction? The more the focus is on WHAT is being said, the less participants are likely to learn about each other. In many forms of adult-adult interaction there are indeed explicit cues to show that knowing (and caring) about each other is NOT what the interaction is about. All the best, Rod -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg Sent: 05 February 2018 23:03 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: That on That Rod: Yes, a great article! I will certainly recommend it to my friends in the progressive teachers' union; there is still this strong belief that somehow Scandinavia presents a social-democratic model for Korean education, and people don't realize how thoroughly and extensively the progressive education system there has been privatized, marketized, and consequently corrupted. To overthrow Marxist thinking Soviet education required a major social transformation, but in Norway, Denmark, Sweden and Finland all it took was a handful of disgruntled voters to flip to coalition governments beholden to splinter right wing parties, and the educational system was very often an easily sacrificed pawn in the electoral game. Performativity is a problem with early years, because it results in real distortions in the process of mastering culture. I think, for historical reasons, our Russian friends tend to emphasize the instrumental aspects of mediated activity with toddlers. When I try to use the spoon example that impresses them so much with people in Korea and in China, it doesn't have the same effect at all, because spoons are essentially a crutch; a way of getting by until the child's hands are large enough to manipulate chopsticks. It's a little like an account of learning to ride a bicycle which makes the training wheels the goal of the activity: in the Galperin account, the tool is not so much a transitional "scaffold" to be dismantled as soon as possible as a permanent fixture. In Western literature--even in systemic functional accounts like the work of Geoff Williams--reading aloud is emphasized in work on children's literature, but what is emphasized is not the transition to silent reading but the enhancement of the relationship between the child and the adult. I think emphasizing the central role of the adult really does have a long term consequence, akiin to the idea of performativity in preschool evaluation, in the making and marketing of children's literature which is really aimed at holding the attention of the paying adult accompanying the child. This is part of the problem with "Finding Dory"--adults can't seem to get their heads around the fact that children find perfectly mundane activities enthralling so long as they can play an active role, and that is exactly what turning every children's story into a parable for adults prevents them from doing. And I think that one of the long term consequences is that the producers of the literature are a little like the Supremes--they have their message muddled, becuase they are addressing two very different interlocutors and creating two very different contexts of situation at one and the same time. Weirdly, I think the solution lies in the construction of the novel: novelists have had to figure out how to concatenate the way in which the characters address each other and the way in which the narrator addresses the reader, and the solution that Jane Austen and George Eliot worked out was to have a fairly "here and now" register between characters and a "there and then" one with the reader. This really has to be reversed when we read to children--it's much more like what we find in Virginia Woolf. If that example is too literary, though, you can simply compare the way that Diana Ross interacts with Flo Ballard when she says "Mama said..." with the way she interacts with us when she is supposedly pining away for lack of love but with a big smile on her face. In one case, the syntax is short and sweet, and the words map right onto the gesture, but in the other case things are really not so clear at all. David On Mon, Feb 5, 2018 at 7:24 PM, Rod Parker-Rees < R.Parker-Rees@plymouth.ac.uk> wrote: > David, > > At the risk of bouncing off your fascinating observations at something > of a tangent, I think your point, that rummaging around in the > infinite regress of context may not be helpful when we are trying to > understand what is going on in a conversation, underlines my point. > Those traces of an interaction which are exportable, while they may be > the most interesting and important if one is seeking to make > generalizable observations, may not be sufficient to explain what goes > on when minds meet. In 'Thinking and Speech', writing about the > relationship between 'spontaneous' and 'scientific' (or 'schooled'?) > concepts, Vygotsky observes that our spontaneous concepts, the fruits > of our experiential sense-making, give colour and vitality to our > understanding of the 'system' concepts which we learn to share with > others. Without the undercurrents of different speakers different > senses (smysl) the meanings which can be held in language would be no > more than a labelling system. I would argue that our day to day > interactions can take a huge variety of forms, understood in terms of > the extent to which we are interested in what lies beneath the common > form of people's words. Talk between teachers and students usually > does not require or encourage a meeting of minds (although it might be > a lot more effective if it did) and what is going on when singers > perform a song and listeners listen to it is a whole other kettle of > fish - how do you invite a listener to experience the feeling of > intimacy? It may be one thing to do this when performing to people > whose responses can be intimated but singing (and > dancing) out into the darkness of a huge arena or to a studio > camera/microphone must require a different kind of communication - so > no wonder the Supremes (back in 1966 when the conventions for > broadcasting were still quite rough around the edges) look as if they > are not sure who they are looking at and singing to. > > This issue, of the nature of the relationship between > public/exportable and private/intimate aspects of interactions, keeps > reminding me of a paper in 'Early Years' by Annica Lofdahl and Hector > Prieto ( > http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09575140903161438) which > explores the socio-political consequences of requiring Swedish > nurseries to publish 'Quality Accounts', to show the world what they > are doing. What this paper shows very clearly is how a focus on what > can be made public serves to shift the nature of interactions between > caregivers and between caregivers and children (we saw the same in the > UK when the introduction of the Early Years Foundation Stage resulted > in practitioners using the documentation as if it were a checklist of > behaviours which they had to capture, record and document in order to > provide evidence of children's progress). Some aspects of practice, > which felt important to caregivers 'on the floor', were not suitable > for inclusion in the Quality Accounts, either because they could not > easily be documented in ways which would be meaningful outside the > context ('you had to be there, man') or because they were too > confidential to be broadcast abroad. What is most significant, > however, is the authors observation that knowing they would have to > provide an account of what they did was enough to alter caregivers' > practices, leading them to prioritise more publishable kinds of > interactions. I can see that this might look, from outside, like a > positive transformation - helping to make caregivers more > 'accountable' but I can't help feeling that a very high price may have > been paid in terms of the shift from 'here-and-now' person focused > interactions to more professional, 'them out there' focused > behaviours. As Niels Bohr noted, you can have 'Klarheit' or you can have 'Richtigkeit' -clarity or 'rightness' - but not both - and clarity always seems more important to 'them out there'. > > All the best, > > Rod > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg > Sent: 04 February 2018 21:23 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: That on That > > Rod: > > Halliday doesn't do CA--conversation analysis. He doesn't like the > fussy transcription method, which he says only interferes with the > ability to recreate the context of situation from the written record > of text. So for example CA assumes that pauses, hiccups, restarts and > so on are omnirelevant. Sometimes they are--I think that the jerkiness > of Trump's topic management is partly realized by his pauses, hiccups, and restarts. > But often they are not. So for example if a teacher is talking to a > class of children about the Wallace Line that separates Indonesian > flora and fauna from Australian, and a messenger arrives from the > principal with a note about an upcoming air-raid drill, we have to say > that the pause, hiccup, and restart is not contextually relevant (and > in fact Ruqaiya Hasan insists that these are two completely different contexts of situation). > It's pretty easy to show that for prelinguistic children and animals, > prosody is omnirelevant (stress and intonation) and articulation > (vowels and consonants) isn't--that's why Halliday doesn't approve of > using IPA to transcribe infants. But for some forms of advanced > literacy the relationship is the other way around: when you are > reading this post, for example, you are deducing my intonation and > stress from my vowels and consonants (and punctuation) and not the > other way around--that's why Halliday thinks that CA transcription > disrupts more than it adds to the analysis. > > And from this there occurs to me (because even when you are writing > you are experiencing your own words as hearer) another distinction > between Ruqaiya's "context of situation" and Vygotsky's social > situation of development. I think that the big contribution of CA to > linguistics was not the fussy transcription system, or the quaint > methodological assumption that everything we need to know in an > interaction is right "there" in an interaction and recoverable to all > of the members and therefore to the analyst. I think that their > biggest contribution was to teach us to learn to see conversation as > structural cooperation rather than functional competition. Turn-taking > is supra-grammatical collaboration, and not rhetorical survival of the > fittest. The problem is that the social situation of development > really is both. It is Vygotsky tells us, a tension between the child > and the environment: a dialectical contradiction, even during stable > periods, and a pretty ferocious form of war during some of the > critical ones. I think that the whole relationship between growth and > learning is tense in exactly this way: embryos grow but do not learn, > and adults learn but do not grow, but the great dialectical > contradiction of those little people caught in between is that children have to do both at the same time. > > One way of understanding why and how Vygotsky had to come up with > concepts like "neoformation" and "social situation of development" is > to read the kind of pedology he wrote when he didn't have these > concepts yet. In "Pedology of the Adolescent", he argues that > childhood is not natural, but invented. Humans invented childhood the > way they invented language; women weaned children early in order to go > back to work or to have more children or both, and that created a long > period where children are consuming like an adult without being able > to produce like one. This, as Barbara Rogoff would say, led to > legitimate forms of peripheral participation; as Mariane Hedigaard > would say, it led to children as explorers. At the other end of this > period, though, there is the opposite contradiction: because of > childhood, adolescents become ready to reproduce like adults long > before they are socio-culturally able to. And so...as the late, great Florence Ballard said...."can't hurry love!" > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWAE9nrRhPc > > (Notice how the Supremes--still adolescents themselves--are a bit > torn, when they dance, between physically interacting with each other, > with the hearer, and with themselves. It seems to me that this > reflects the indeterminate addresee of the lyrics....) > > David > > > > David Kellogg > > Recent Article in *Mind, Culture, and Activity* 24 (4) 'Metaphoric, > Metonymic, Eclectic, or Dialectic? A Commentary on ?Neoformation: A > Dialectical Approach to Developmental Change?' > > Free e-print available (for a short time only) at > > http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/YAWPBtmPM8knMCNg6sS6/full > > > On Sun, Feb 4, 2018 at 8:55 PM, Rod Parker-Rees < > R.Parker-Rees@plymouth.ac.uk> wrote: > > > David, > > > > On the question of 'experiencing our own words', I have been > > interested in the extent to which we are also able to experience > > other people through our experience of what they do to how we speak. > > The various adjustments which we make, in the timing and rhythm of > > our speaking, our intonation and accent and even our interpersonal > > timing and distance, are directly and physically experienced and > > therefore available (albeit largely > > unconsciously) to our memory of what interactions with this person > > feel like. I believe (and I am sure you will know much more about > > this) that linguists vary in terms of how much of this 'instancial', > > situation specific context can or should be acknowledged in analyses > > of > interactions. > > While much can be read from the traces of interaction which can be > > captured on paper, there is also much that is lost. Learning to read > > and write also seems to shift our attention so that what can be > > recorded becomes more significant, more thinkable and more important > > than the more person/situation specific, evanescent context which, > > however, may be particularly 'telling' when it comes to making > > sophisticated social judgements about what someone MEANT by what > > they > said. > > > > And of course, it may be that some people's social judgments are > > less sophisticated than others'. > > > > All the best, > > > > Rod > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg > > Sent: 03 February 2018 00:40 > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] That on That > > > > When most of us speak, we try to "home in" on context--that is, we > > try to listen to what we are saying not only from the point of view > > of the speaker but also from the point of view of the hearer--who is > > part of the context of situation--and we therefore try to elaborate, > > to exend, and to enhance what we are saying from that point of view. > > Because speaking is a process of realizing or completing > > thinking--not simply expressing some thought that exists already in > > the mind--this process of transition from the speaker's point of > > view to that of the hearer can be traced in the lexicogrammar > > through what Halliday calls > the textual metafunction. > > There are two systems which govern the textual metafunction--which > > allow us to turn our own words into an experiencing of our own words. > > One is the system of Theme which is mostly realized in word order, > > and the other is the system of Information which is largely realized > > through > tonic stress). > > In word order, the speaker must manage a transition from Theme (the > > starting point of the speaker) to Rheme (the endpoint, where the > > speaker hands over to the hearer. In stress, the speaker must go > > from unstressed from Given (information that is shared with the > > hearer) to stressed New (information which is being shared). The > > variation between > "a" and "the" > > which Rod noted is just one example of this double transition: If I > > say "once upon a time there was a man (stressed); the man > > (unstressed) was a president", then "a man" is Rheme, and New > > iinformation in the first clause, but it is Theme and Given information in the second). > > Another example is the difference between "it" which can be used as > > Theme and as Given, and "that" which is used for Rheme and New: we > > can say "Look at THAT!" but we say "LOOK at it!" > > There are some interesting exceptions to this rule, though. That is, > > there are people who cannot seem to home in on context--who do not > > listen to themselves speak and do not manage to auto-adjust by > > taking in the hearer's point of view. As a consequence, they do not > > become more coherent as they speak, but less so. Here's an example. > > "I think the me?I think it?s terrible. You wanna know the truth? I > > think it?s a disgrace. What?s going on in this country. I think it?s > > a > disgrace. > > The memo was sent to?Congress; it was declassified; Congress will do > > whatever?they?re going to do, but I think it?s a disgrace what?s > > happening in our country. And when you look at that and you see that > > and so many other things what?s (sic) going on?.uh lotta people > > should be ashamed of themselves and much worse than that. So I sent > > it over to Congress; they will do whatever they?re going to do; > > whatever they do is?fine; it was declassified and let?s see what > > happens. But a lot of people should be ashamed. Thank you very much." > > The speaker begins with the most common theme in English: "I". There > > is nothing particularly "egocentric" about this: it naturally > > follows on from the question which the hearer just asked the > > speaker. But when the speaker arrives at the Rheme, which should be > > "memo", something happens. "It" is indicative--it should refer to > > the memo. So it appears that the speaker is saying that the memo is > > terrible. But that wasn't actually what the speaker meant. The > > speaker tries, heroically, to take the hearer point of view in the > > next clause, with an empty phrase "You wanna know the truth". But he > > then follows this up with a statement which, if we follow the chain > > of endoporic reference, actually says that the memo is a disgrace. > > In order to avoid this implicature, the speaker avoids "homing in" > > on context and instead makes it broader--what's going on in this > > country." But then back to the memo. You must say something about > > the memo, because that was what the question was about. So you say > > something that is actually entirely Given information--without any > > New at all. But the hearer is > expecting something New. One must say something new. So "That". "That > on That". > > > > David Kellogg > > > > Recent Article in *Mind, Culture, and Activity* 24 (4) 'Metaphoric, > > Metonymic, Eclectic, or Dialectic? A Commentary on ?Neoformation: A > > Dialectical Approach to Developmental Change?' > > > > Free e-print available (for a short time only) at > > > > http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/YAWPBtmPM8knMCNg6sS6/full > > ________________________________ > > [http://www.plymouth.ac.uk/images/email_footer.gif] > //www.plymouth.ac.uk/worldclass> > > > > This email and any files with it are confidential and intended > > solely for the use of the recipient to whom it is addressed. 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If you are not the intended recipient then copying, distribution or other use of the information contained is strictly prohibited and you should not rely on it. If you have received this email in error please let the sender know immediately and delete it from your system(s). Internet emails are not necessarily secure. While we take every care, Plymouth University accepts no responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan emails and their attachments. Plymouth University does not accept responsibility for any changes made after it was sent. Nothing in this email or its attachments constitutes an order for goods or services unless accompanied by an official order form. From dkellogg60@gmail.com Wed Feb 7 07:44:53 2018 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2018 00:44:53 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "Context" or Object of activity In-Reply-To: <33f076e0-ac86-aec4-b691-b4a68e15e843@mira.net> References: <0dc79f2d-1447-51b1-25f8-efc653d43a46@mira.net> <1334879954.344775.1517399665156@mail.yahoo.com> <33f076e0-ac86-aec4-b691-b4a68e15e843@mira.net> Message-ID: Andy-- I agree that what you are describing with the example of studying why Latino children in LA have trouble learning to read is better understood as a social problem in search of a project than as a context. What I am arguing for is a linguist's, and not a psychologist's, definition of context: one that assumes that the key relationship is not between an individual and a social circumstance but rather between a text and the ensemble of social relations (and other relations, e.g. perceptual ones) which might be realized by that text. No context without text, just as there is no culture without living, breathing, meaning-making culturers and enculturees. There are two places where this relationship might appear a psychological one. The first is that reailzation takes place through the selection of certain alternatives, certain choices. In adults (but not in small children) this is typically done by selection from a "system" provided by the language, which can be described as a system of systems (a menu of menus, such as polarity, tense, transitivity, mood, and so on). The selector is, obviously, an individual, even if the system is a great social project which has been going on for centuries and involving thousands and even millions of speakers. The second place where this relationship might appear a psychological one is that we can think of the individual mind itself as having the structure of potential text. Instead of thinking of minds as ghostly homunculi made of spirit instead of flesh and blood, we can think of it more as a voice in search of a text. I don't really believe very much in periodizing Vygotsky: I think that the key to the earlier Vygotskyan work (e.g. Roth's note that in a very early paper Vygotsky describes consciousness as the perezhivanie of perezhivanie) is in the anatomy of the later Vygotsky (e.g. the pedology). But I do recognize, as Bathurst does, that at a certain point Vygotsky does make a decisive turn in favor of Voloshinov's view of consciousness as having a semantic structure, and that turn has created a split in our movement which persists to this day, a split between those of us who emphasize AT and those who prefer to stress CH. I'm with the latter. David Kellogg Recent Article in *Mind, Culture, and Activity* 24 (4) 'Metaphoric, Metonymic, Eclectic, or Dialectic? A Commentary on ?Neoformation: A Dialectical Approach to Developmental Change?' Free e-print available (for a short time only) at http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/YAWPBtmPM8knMCNg6sS6/full On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 6:37 PM, Andy Blunden wrote: > I lost interest in this discussion about "context" and went > back to writing up the chapter of my current book project of > "formations of consciousness." And then I think I realised > why I was just not getting what people were talking about > with "context" and why my ideas (apart from their remoteness > to the interpretation of writers like Bronfenbrenner) found > so little resonance with others on this list. > > Then I realised, if you are a psychologist then your > interest is in understanding the actions of a given > individual, i.e., that individual is the subject matter. > Being cultural psychologists and not rat-racers, it is > blindingly obvious that the context of the individual's > action is part of the subject matter being researched. My > efforts at criticising the concept of "context" were > therefore futile. > > I am not a psychologist (and if I am, I am a very poor > one!). My starting point, my subject matter is social change > and my unit of analysis is "projects" or "social formations" > or "activities" or whatever (according to the precise > theoretical frame). I approach the understanding of the > actions of individuals in terms of the individual being the > immediate being of a number of formations of which they are > a part. > > So if the question is why is this Latino boy in San Diego > having trouble learning to read, Of Course, you need to know > the context, both immediate - the American Anglophone > education system for example, and the important distal > context of the boy upbringing a Latino community. But his > experiences are in the main just like those of thousands of > others like himself, in which these two projects interact in > a similar way - a process which can only be studied through > the actions of the various individuals instantiating this > interaction. That's not what I call "context" though. It is > the subject matter itself. > > Andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > On 3/02/2018 9:01 AM, David Kellogg wrote: > > Rod: > > > > Yes, that's the issue I was raising. What KIND of context--a context of > > situation, in which exophora, visiographic representation, and sense can > > predominate? Or a context of culture, in which endophora, concepts, and > > signification rule? But of course in between them there is a continuum, > not > > a vaccuum. And in between segments of the continuum, there are gaps and > > crises to be navigated by the developing child. (One of these, the moment > > when a child realizes that a question has to be answered rather than > > repeated, is discussed in my forthcoming article in your journal, but > there > > is another even more interesting one I am writing about--the moment when > a > > child realizes that you can switch names with your little sister, and > even > > call you mother "Daddy"!) > > > > It seems to me that this issue is clearly linked to the issues that Mike > > was raising. > > > > a) Mike says that there must be some relationship between context (of > > situation, of situation-type, of culture) and social situation of > > development. I think that a social situation of development is an age > > specific situation-type: that is, it is the ensemble of social relations > > between the child and the environment that are specific to a given > > developmental age. I don't think these are simply terminological > variants, > > because--first of all--the SSD is part of Vygotsky's pedological > > periodization scheme, and therefore age specific, and--secondly--the SSD > is > > not a specific situation or a culture (that is, the ensemble of all > > possible situations for a particular speech community) but something in > > between (though obviously the SSD of a child in early years is closer to > > the context-of-situation pole and the SSD of the adolescent is closer to > > the context-of-culture pole). > > > > b) Mike says that Vygotsky can be read as a contextualist (and not a > > mechanist or even an organicist). I think he can, but not if we consider > > context as an undifferentiated category, which is what Andy is doing when > > he claims that context is always unbounded. On the contrary--it's much > more > > useful to think of context as always bounded, but whose boundaries go > from > > all of the actual, sensuous boundaries of the material-situational > setting > > (which is the case for a child before he or she learns to speak) to the > > highly abstract boundaries we see when we consider a context of culture > as > > all of the things which may be potentially chosen as meaningful (as I > said, > > there are real boundaries here too--e.g. the category of a Proper Verb > > corresponding to proper nouns, which isn't meaningful in our culture, > > although it could be. But the boundaries are constantly changing because > > our ability to mean is constantly expanding (and by the way the fact that > > our ability to mean is constantly expanding makes no sense unless you > > accept that our ability to mean does have boundaries). > > > > c) Mike says that context includes elements of phylogenesis alongside > > sociogenesis and of course "microgenesis" (I confess that I don't like > the > > term microgenesis, because I think it confuses what the Gestaltists > called > > Aktuelgenese with what Halliday calls "logogenesis",w hich is the > expansion > > of meaning in real time. To return to the point you are making about the > > richness of the tapestry of context that a French speaker has when she or > > he has grown up near the Musee de Cluny (the unicorns!) or the Bayeux > > tapestry (but I hear this is going to tour England now). A good tapestry > > has at least two different kinds of threads (the old ones actually used > > many layers, like a palimpsest, and some layers were designed for > > washability while others were for strength). Unlike me, Vygotsky DOES > use a > > lot of etymology in his discussion of how children develop new forms of > > meaning (e.g. his discussion of Mondegreens in Chapter 6 of HDHMF). > > > > Ruqaiya Hasan doesn't praise Vygotsky not for the usual thing that people > > see in him--a firm grasp of the obvious, and even tautological, facts of > > the sociogenesis of mind. Instead she appreciates what she calls > (somewhat > > unfortunately) his "biogenetic" approach: his ability to see development > > from the phylogenetic, sociogenetic, and logogenetic angle all at the > same > > time, without ever forgetting that although they are all one and the same > > thing--just different forms of change over time--they can still look > > very very very different and consequently mean very different things to > the > > child and to the ensemble of social relations in which the chld is > > enmeshed. I think Hasan appreciated that this was not only Marxism but > > genius Marxism. One of the things I really didn't agree with her on was > > Salman Rushdie, an author I still love and that she had a strong dislike > > for. In Midnight's Children, Rushdie talks about the magicians in the > > market of Mumbai (who I can still remember from when I was a little child > > in what was called Bombay). The magicians are all members of the Indian > > Communist Party, so they have this uncanny, but self-critical, ability to > > magically bend reality to their will without ever forgetting that magic > > doesn't really exist. > > > > But you said that already, didn't you? > > > > dk > > > > > > > > David Kellogg > > > > Recent Article in *Mind, Culture, and Activity* 24 (4) 'Metaphoric, > > Metonymic, Eclectic, or Dialectic? A Commentary on ?Neoformation: A > > Dialectical Approach to Developmental Change?' > > > > Free e-print available (for a short time only) at > > > > http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/YAWPBtmPM8knMCNg6sS6/full > > > > > > > > From dkellogg60@gmail.com Wed Feb 7 08:05:33 2018 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2018 01:05:33 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: That on That In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Like Andy, I'm not a psychologist; I suppose that is a way of saying that I am not a parent. This has a lot of disadvantages, as psychologists and parents keep reminding me, and I am acutely conscious of that even without being reminded of it. And yet I think that the point of view of a childless linguist is a perfectly valid one; if we are willing to consider the validity of the views of teachers, and of children, let along adminstrators and politicians, on language, we ought to be able to make room for a view of child development which foregrounds language development too. It's not the only view: I am perfectly willing to consider views of reading aloud that are mainly concerned with enhancing the reader/readee relationship and not with abolishing it. But it's a valid one, and it's mine. I am actually not so sure that my view is completely counterposed to yours: one of the ways of abolishing the reader-readee relationship might actually be by enhancing it. Historically, reading silently was a very late development (it dates, like so much else, from the Renaissance, at least in Europe and at least according to Clifford Geertz). If so, that means that it probably happened not in the way we imagine now--that is, the replacement of the reader with superior forms of contextualizing devices such as animations--but with a revolutionary seizure of the semiotic means by people with very different interests than those who had previously monopolized it. My own view is that a lot of this happened in the eighteenth century, which was when children's stories and novels were invented, and female literacy played a key role. Yesterday I read a study which showed that even in Scandinavian countries where the government does provide preschool and even ante-natal care to parents, the birth of a child immediately produces a thirty percent pay gap between men and women: the birth of a child is a financial and economic disaster from which the mother never recovers (and from which the father never suffers at all!) So, paradoxically, I think that the struggle for silent reading (and it is a struggle), in addition to all of the important ramifications of developing inner speech and developing verbal thinking about which Vygotsky taught us, has a key social dimension as well: the individuation of reading skills is not just for the emancipation of the child. Naturally, in this struggle, a dependence on phonemes is more like a spoon or a training wheel than like a revolutionary seizure of semiotic means. David Kellogg Recent Article in *Mind, Culture, and Activity* 24 (4) 'Metaphoric, Metonymic, Eclectic, or Dialectic? A Commentary on ?Neoformation: A Dialectical Approach to Developmental Change?' Free e-print available (for a short time only) at http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/YAWPBtmPM8knMCNg6sS6/full On Wed, Feb 7, 2018 at 8:14 PM, Rod Parker-Rees < R.Parker-Rees@plymouth.ac.uk> wrote: > David, > > I think reading with children provides a lovely example of how the form of > an intimate social interaction is shaped by the broader social context. It > is now pretty much impossible for a teacher in a nursery or Reception class > in England to read a story with a group of children for the sake of > enjoying a cosy social interaction together. As soon as a book appears the > focus has to be on teaching children to read (and this now tends to mean > teaching children to sound out words with systemic phonics). Parents are > also encouraged to see reading with their children as a kind of homework, > aimed at accelerating their literacy development. Instead of enhancing the > relationship between child and adult or modelling the pleasures of cosy > social interactions, mediated by books, this can teach children that > books=work=stress all round. > > As to the complicated nature of who addresses whom in a picture book > designed to be read with a child, I think the best authors have understood > that they need to make the experience enjoyable for the adult as well as > for the child. Introducing some playful interaction between text and images > or including associations which may be 'telling' for adult readers can help > to draw the adult in but often the child's enjoyment will be enough reward > to make the sharing a positive experience. Where the author is heavy handed > with 'nudge nudge' references which are clearly intended to go over the > child's head the book is, I think, less likely to stand the test of > repeated readings and become a favourite. > > Like the spoon and chopsticks or the stabilisers and the bike, reading a > book together can be seen as a crutch, scaffolding the child's learning to > read independently but it can also be seen as an opportunity to share > interests and meanings, a way of enriching the 'here and now' of the > adult-child interaction with the 'there and then' of interesting stuff to > talk about. > > If the adult is focused on teaching the child to read, on the book or even > on the story, the 'sharing' may be both less enjoyable and less culturally > informative than if the focus is on the child or on the interaction. Isn't > this also the case for any face to face interaction? The more the focus is > on WHAT is being said, the less participants are likely to learn about each > other. In many forms of adult-adult interaction there are indeed explicit > cues to show that knowing (and caring) about each other is NOT what the > interaction is about. > > All the best, > > Rod > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg > Sent: 05 February 2018 23:03 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: That on That > > Rod: > > Yes, a great article! I will certainly recommend it to my friends in the > progressive teachers' union; there is still this strong belief that somehow > Scandinavia presents a social-democratic model for Korean education, and > people don't realize how thoroughly and extensively the progressive > education system there has been privatized, marketized, and consequently > corrupted. To overthrow Marxist thinking Soviet education required a major > social transformation, but in Norway, Denmark, Sweden and Finland all it > took was a handful of disgruntled voters to flip to coalition governments > beholden to splinter right wing parties, and the educational system was > very often an easily sacrificed pawn in the electoral game. > > Performativity is a problem with early years, because it results in real > distortions in the process of mastering culture. I think, for historical > reasons, our Russian friends tend to emphasize the instrumental aspects of > mediated activity with toddlers. When I try to use the spoon example that > impresses them so much with people in Korea and in China, it doesn't have > the same effect at all, because spoons are essentially a crutch; a way of > getting by until the child's hands are large enough to manipulate > chopsticks. It's a little like an account of learning to ride a bicycle > which makes the training wheels the goal of the activity: in the Galperin > account, the tool is not so much a transitional "scaffold" to be dismantled > as soon as possible as a permanent fixture. > > In Western literature--even in systemic functional accounts like the work > of Geoff Williams--reading aloud is emphasized in work on children's > literature, but what is emphasized is not the transition to silent reading > but the enhancement of the relationship between the child and the adult. I > think emphasizing the central role of the adult really does have a long > term consequence, akiin to the idea of performativity in preschool > evaluation, in the making and marketing of children's literature which is > really aimed at holding the attention of the paying adult accompanying the > child. This is part of the problem with "Finding Dory"--adults can't seem > to get their heads around the fact that children find perfectly mundane > activities enthralling so long as they can play an active role, and that is > exactly what turning every children's story into a parable for adults > prevents them from doing. > > And I think that one of the long term consequences is that the producers > of the literature are a little like the Supremes--they have their message > muddled, becuase they are addressing two very different interlocutors and > creating two very different contexts of situation at one and the same time. > Weirdly, I think the solution lies in the construction of the novel: > novelists have had to figure out how to concatenate the way in which the > characters address each other and the way in which the narrator addresses > the reader, and the solution that Jane Austen and George Eliot worked out > was to have a fairly "here and now" register between characters and a > "there and then" one with the reader. > > This really has to be reversed when we read to children--it's much more > like what we find in Virginia Woolf. If that example is too literary, > though, you can simply compare the way that Diana Ross interacts with Flo > Ballard when she says "Mama said..." with the way she interacts with us > when she is supposedly pining away for lack of love but with a big smile on > her face. In one case, the syntax is short and sweet, and the words map > right onto the gesture, but in the other case things are really not so > clear at all. > > David > > On Mon, Feb 5, 2018 at 7:24 PM, Rod Parker-Rees < > R.Parker-Rees@plymouth.ac.uk> wrote: > > > David, > > > > At the risk of bouncing off your fascinating observations at something > > of a tangent, I think your point, that rummaging around in the > > infinite regress of context may not be helpful when we are trying to > > understand what is going on in a conversation, underlines my point. > > Those traces of an interaction which are exportable, while they may be > > the most interesting and important if one is seeking to make > > generalizable observations, may not be sufficient to explain what goes > > on when minds meet. In 'Thinking and Speech', writing about the > > relationship between 'spontaneous' and 'scientific' (or 'schooled'?) > > concepts, Vygotsky observes that our spontaneous concepts, the fruits > > of our experiential sense-making, give colour and vitality to our > > understanding of the 'system' concepts which we learn to share with > > others. Without the undercurrents of different speakers different > > senses (smysl) the meanings which can be held in language would be no > > more than a labelling system. I would argue that our day to day > > interactions can take a huge variety of forms, understood in terms of > > the extent to which we are interested in what lies beneath the common > > form of people's words. Talk between teachers and students usually > > does not require or encourage a meeting of minds (although it might be > > a lot more effective if it did) and what is going on when singers > > perform a song and listeners listen to it is a whole other kettle of > > fish - how do you invite a listener to experience the feeling of > > intimacy? It may be one thing to do this when performing to people > > whose responses can be intimated but singing (and > > dancing) out into the darkness of a huge arena or to a studio > > camera/microphone must require a different kind of communication - so > > no wonder the Supremes (back in 1966 when the conventions for > > broadcasting were still quite rough around the edges) look as if they > > are not sure who they are looking at and singing to. > > > > This issue, of the nature of the relationship between > > public/exportable and private/intimate aspects of interactions, keeps > > reminding me of a paper in 'Early Years' by Annica Lofdahl and Hector > > Prieto ( > > http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09575140903161438) which > > explores the socio-political consequences of requiring Swedish > > nurseries to publish 'Quality Accounts', to show the world what they > > are doing. What this paper shows very clearly is how a focus on what > > can be made public serves to shift the nature of interactions between > > caregivers and between caregivers and children (we saw the same in the > > UK when the introduction of the Early Years Foundation Stage resulted > > in practitioners using the documentation as if it were a checklist of > > behaviours which they had to capture, record and document in order to > > provide evidence of children's progress). Some aspects of practice, > > which felt important to caregivers 'on the floor', were not suitable > > for inclusion in the Quality Accounts, either because they could not > > easily be documented in ways which would be meaningful outside the > > context ('you had to be there, man') or because they were too > > confidential to be broadcast abroad. What is most significant, > > however, is the authors observation that knowing they would have to > > provide an account of what they did was enough to alter caregivers' > > practices, leading them to prioritise more publishable kinds of > > interactions. I can see that this might look, from outside, like a > > positive transformation - helping to make caregivers more > > 'accountable' but I can't help feeling that a very high price may have > > been paid in terms of the shift from 'here-and-now' person focused > > interactions to more professional, 'them out there' focused > > behaviours. As Niels Bohr noted, you can have 'Klarheit' or you can have > 'Richtigkeit' -clarity or 'rightness' - but not both - and clarity always > seems more important to 'them out there'. > > > > All the best, > > > > Rod > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg > > Sent: 04 February 2018 21:23 > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: That on That > > > > Rod: > > > > Halliday doesn't do CA--conversation analysis. He doesn't like the > > fussy transcription method, which he says only interferes with the > > ability to recreate the context of situation from the written record > > of text. So for example CA assumes that pauses, hiccups, restarts and > > so on are omnirelevant. Sometimes they are--I think that the jerkiness > > of Trump's topic management is partly realized by his pauses, hiccups, > and restarts. > > But often they are not. So for example if a teacher is talking to a > > class of children about the Wallace Line that separates Indonesian > > flora and fauna from Australian, and a messenger arrives from the > > principal with a note about an upcoming air-raid drill, we have to say > > that the pause, hiccup, and restart is not contextually relevant (and > > in fact Ruqaiya Hasan insists that these are two completely different > contexts of situation). > > It's pretty easy to show that for prelinguistic children and animals, > > prosody is omnirelevant (stress and intonation) and articulation > > (vowels and consonants) isn't--that's why Halliday doesn't approve of > > using IPA to transcribe infants. But for some forms of advanced > > literacy the relationship is the other way around: when you are > > reading this post, for example, you are deducing my intonation and > > stress from my vowels and consonants (and punctuation) and not the > > other way around--that's why Halliday thinks that CA transcription > > disrupts more than it adds to the analysis. > > > > And from this there occurs to me (because even when you are writing > > you are experiencing your own words as hearer) another distinction > > between Ruqaiya's "context of situation" and Vygotsky's social > > situation of development. I think that the big contribution of CA to > > linguistics was not the fussy transcription system, or the quaint > > methodological assumption that everything we need to know in an > > interaction is right "there" in an interaction and recoverable to all > > of the members and therefore to the analyst. I think that their > > biggest contribution was to teach us to learn to see conversation as > > structural cooperation rather than functional competition. Turn-taking > > is supra-grammatical collaboration, and not rhetorical survival of the > > fittest. The problem is that the social situation of development > > really is both. It is Vygotsky tells us, a tension between the child > > and the environment: a dialectical contradiction, even during stable > > periods, and a pretty ferocious form of war during some of the > > critical ones. I think that the whole relationship between growth and > > learning is tense in exactly this way: embryos grow but do not learn, > > and adults learn but do not grow, but the great dialectical > > contradiction of those little people caught in between is that children > have to do both at the same time. > > > > One way of understanding why and how Vygotsky had to come up with > > concepts like "neoformation" and "social situation of development" is > > to read the kind of pedology he wrote when he didn't have these > > concepts yet. In "Pedology of the Adolescent", he argues that > > childhood is not natural, but invented. Humans invented childhood the > > way they invented language; women weaned children early in order to go > > back to work or to have more children or both, and that created a long > > period where children are consuming like an adult without being able > > to produce like one. This, as Barbara Rogoff would say, led to > > legitimate forms of peripheral participation; as Mariane Hedigaard > > would say, it led to children as explorers. At the other end of this > > period, though, there is the opposite contradiction: because of > > childhood, adolescents become ready to reproduce like adults long > > before they are socio-culturally able to. And so...as the late, great > Florence Ballard said...."can't hurry love!" > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWAE9nrRhPc > > > > (Notice how the Supremes--still adolescents themselves--are a bit > > torn, when they dance, between physically interacting with each other, > > with the hearer, and with themselves. It seems to me that this > > reflects the indeterminate addresee of the lyrics....) > > > > David > > > > > > > > David Kellogg > > > > Recent Article in *Mind, Culture, and Activity* 24 (4) 'Metaphoric, > > Metonymic, Eclectic, or Dialectic? A Commentary on ?Neoformation: A > > Dialectical Approach to Developmental Change?' > > > > Free e-print available (for a short time only) at > > > > http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/YAWPBtmPM8knMCNg6sS6/full > > > > > > On Sun, Feb 4, 2018 at 8:55 PM, Rod Parker-Rees < > > R.Parker-Rees@plymouth.ac.uk> wrote: > > > > > David, > > > > > > On the question of 'experiencing our own words', I have been > > > interested in the extent to which we are also able to experience > > > other people through our experience of what they do to how we speak. > > > The various adjustments which we make, in the timing and rhythm of > > > our speaking, our intonation and accent and even our interpersonal > > > timing and distance, are directly and physically experienced and > > > therefore available (albeit largely > > > unconsciously) to our memory of what interactions with this person > > > feel like. I believe (and I am sure you will know much more about > > > this) that linguists vary in terms of how much of this 'instancial', > > > situation specific context can or should be acknowledged in analyses > > > of > > interactions. > > > While much can be read from the traces of interaction which can be > > > captured on paper, there is also much that is lost. Learning to read > > > and write also seems to shift our attention so that what can be > > > recorded becomes more significant, more thinkable and more important > > > than the more person/situation specific, evanescent context which, > > > however, may be particularly 'telling' when it comes to making > > > sophisticated social judgements about what someone MEANT by what > > > they > > said. > > > > > > And of course, it may be that some people's social judgments are > > > less sophisticated than others'. > > > > > > All the best, > > > > > > Rod > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg > > > Sent: 03 February 2018 00:40 > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] That on That > > > > > > When most of us speak, we try to "home in" on context--that is, we > > > try to listen to what we are saying not only from the point of view > > > of the speaker but also from the point of view of the hearer--who is > > > part of the context of situation--and we therefore try to elaborate, > > > to exend, and to enhance what we are saying from that point of view. > > > Because speaking is a process of realizing or completing > > > thinking--not simply expressing some thought that exists already in > > > the mind--this process of transition from the speaker's point of > > > view to that of the hearer can be traced in the lexicogrammar > > > through what Halliday calls > > the textual metafunction. > > > There are two systems which govern the textual metafunction--which > > > allow us to turn our own words into an experiencing of our own words. > > > One is the system of Theme which is mostly realized in word order, > > > and the other is the system of Information which is largely realized > > > through > > tonic stress). > > > In word order, the speaker must manage a transition from Theme (the > > > starting point of the speaker) to Rheme (the endpoint, where the > > > speaker hands over to the hearer. In stress, the speaker must go > > > from unstressed from Given (information that is shared with the > > > hearer) to stressed New (information which is being shared). The > > > variation between > > "a" and "the" > > > which Rod noted is just one example of this double transition: If I > > > say "once upon a time there was a man (stressed); the man > > > (unstressed) was a president", then "a man" is Rheme, and New > > > iinformation in the first clause, but it is Theme and Given > information in the second). > > > Another example is the difference between "it" which can be used as > > > Theme and as Given, and "that" which is used for Rheme and New: we > > > can say "Look at THAT!" but we say "LOOK at it!" > > > There are some interesting exceptions to this rule, though. That is, > > > there are people who cannot seem to home in on context--who do not > > > listen to themselves speak and do not manage to auto-adjust by > > > taking in the hearer's point of view. As a consequence, they do not > > > become more coherent as they speak, but less so. Here's an example. > > > "I think the me?I think it?s terrible. You wanna know the truth? I > > > think it?s a disgrace. What?s going on in this country. I think it?s > > > a > > disgrace. > > > The memo was sent to?Congress; it was declassified; Congress will do > > > whatever?they?re going to do, but I think it?s a disgrace what?s > > > happening in our country. And when you look at that and you see that > > > and so many other things what?s (sic) going on?.uh lotta people > > > should be ashamed of themselves and much worse than that. So I sent > > > it over to Congress; they will do whatever they?re going to do; > > > whatever they do is?fine; it was declassified and let?s see what > > > happens. But a lot of people should be ashamed. Thank you very much." > > > The speaker begins with the most common theme in English: "I". There > > > is nothing particularly "egocentric" about this: it naturally > > > follows on from the question which the hearer just asked the > > > speaker. But when the speaker arrives at the Rheme, which should be > > > "memo", something happens. "It" is indicative--it should refer to > > > the memo. So it appears that the speaker is saying that the memo is > > > terrible. But that wasn't actually what the speaker meant. The > > > speaker tries, heroically, to take the hearer point of view in the > > > next clause, with an empty phrase "You wanna know the truth". But he > > > then follows this up with a statement which, if we follow the chain > > > of endoporic reference, actually says that the memo is a disgrace. > > > In order to avoid this implicature, the speaker avoids "homing in" > > > on context and instead makes it broader--what's going on in this > > > country." But then back to the memo. You must say something about > > > the memo, because that was what the question was about. So you say > > > something that is actually entirely Given information--without any > > > New at all. But the hearer is > > expecting something New. One must say something new. So "That". "That > > on That". > > > > > > David Kellogg > > > > > > Recent Article in *Mind, Culture, and Activity* 24 (4) 'Metaphoric, > > > Metonymic, Eclectic, or Dialectic? A Commentary on ?Neoformation: A > > > Dialectical Approach to Developmental Change?' > > > > > > Free e-print available (for a short time only) at > > > > > > http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/YAWPBtmPM8knMCNg6sS6/full > > > ________________________________ > > > [http://www.plymouth.ac.uk/images/email_footer.gif] > > //www.plymouth.ac.uk/worldclass> > > > > > > This email and any files with it are confidential and intended > > > solely for the use of the recipient to whom it is addressed. If you > > > are not the intended recipient then copying, distribution or other > > > use of the information contained is strictly prohibited and you > > > should not rely on > > it. > > > If you have received this email in error please let the sender know > > > immediately and delete it from your system(s). Internet emails are > > > not necessarily secure. While we take every care, Plymouth > > > University accepts no responsibility for viruses and it is your > > > responsibility to scan emails and their attachments. Plymouth > > > University does not accept responsibility for any changes made after > > > it was sent. Nothing in this email or its attachments constitutes an > > > order for goods or services unless accompanied by an official order > form. > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > [http://www.plymouth.ac.uk/images/email_footer.gif] > //www.plymouth.ac.uk/worldclass> > > > > This email and any files with it are confidential and intended solely > > for the use of the recipient to whom it is addressed. If you are not > > the intended recipient then copying, distribution or other use of the > > information contained is strictly prohibited and you should not rely on > it. > > If you have received this email in error please let the sender know > > immediately and delete it from your system(s). Internet emails are not > > necessarily secure. While we take every care, Plymouth University > > accepts no responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to > > scan emails and their attachments. Plymouth University does not accept > > responsibility for any changes made after it was sent. Nothing in this > > email or its attachments constitutes an order for goods or services > > unless accompanied by an official order form. > > > > > ________________________________ > [http://www.plymouth.ac.uk/images/email_footer.gif] //www.plymouth.ac.uk/worldclass> > > This email and any files with it are confidential and intended solely for > the use of the recipient to whom it is addressed. If you are not the > intended recipient then copying, distribution or other use of the > information contained is strictly prohibited and you should not rely on it. > If you have received this email in error please let the sender know > immediately and delete it from your system(s). Internet emails are not > necessarily secure. While we take every care, Plymouth University accepts > no responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan emails > and their attachments. Plymouth University does not accept responsibility > for any changes made after it was sent. Nothing in this email or its > attachments constitutes an order for goods or services unless accompanied > by an official order form. > > From mcole@ucsd.edu Fri Feb 9 15:34:37 2018 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2018 15:34:37 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] A Presidential Zoped!! Message-ID: Talk about strange bedfellows...... http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/02/dumbed-down-security-briefings-still-too-difficult-for-trump.html for your reading pleasure mike From bazerman@education.ucsb.edu Fri Feb 9 17:45:32 2018 From: bazerman@education.ucsb.edu (Charles Bazerman) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2018 17:45:32 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: A Presidential Zoped!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Of course we should remember that zoped has its origins in assessing the learning potential of special education/defectology students, so I couldn't imagine anything more appropriate. Chuck On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 3:34 PM, mike cole wrote: > Talk about strange bedfellows...... > > http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/02/dumbed- > down-security-briefings-still-too-difficult-for-trump.html > > for your reading pleasure > mike > From jrtudge@uncg.edu Sat Feb 10 02:31:48 2018 From: jrtudge@uncg.edu (Jonathan Tudge) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2018 05:31:48 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: A Presidential Zoped!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sorry, Chuck, to be contrarian, but doesn't the zoped require that there be some potential? Jon ~~~~~~~~~~~ Jonathan Tudge Professor Office: 155 Stone Our work on gratitude: http://morethanthanks.wp.uncg.edu/ A new book just published: Tudge, J. & Freitas, L. (Eds.) Developing gratitude in children and adolescents , Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press My web site:http://www.uncg.edu/hdf/faculty/tudge Mailing address: 248 Stone Building Department of Human Development and Family Studies PO Box 26170 The University of North Carolina at Greensboro Greensboro, NC 27402-6170 USA phone (336) 223-6181 fax (336) 334-5076 On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 8:45 PM, Charles Bazerman < bazerman@education.ucsb.edu> wrote: > Of course we should remember that zoped has its origins in assessing the > learning potential of special education/defectology students, so I couldn't > imagine anything more appropriate. > Chuck > > On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 3:34 PM, mike cole wrote: > > > Talk about strange bedfellows...... > > > > http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/02/dumbed- > > down-security-briefings-still-too-difficult-for-trump.html > > > > for your reading pleasure > > mike > > > From s.franklin08@btinternet.com Sat Feb 10 04:29:21 2018 From: s.franklin08@btinternet.com (Shirley Franklin) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2018 12:29:21 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: A Presidential Zoped!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2445ED8C-E2E5-4FBC-A0D9-38AB79F47A4A@btinternet.com> Jon Are you suggesting no potential in students with learning challenges? I didn?t realise the zoped came from Vyogotskys work with ?defectology" students . I love that. Shirley > On 10 Feb 2018, at 10:31, Jonathan Tudge wrote: > > Sorry, Chuck, to be contrarian, but doesn't the zoped require that there be > some potential? > > Jon > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Jonathan Tudge > > Professor > Office: 155 Stone > > Our work on gratitude: http://morethanthanks.wp.uncg.edu/ > > A new book just published: Tudge, J. & Freitas, L. (Eds.) Developing > gratitude in children and adolescents > , > Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press > > My web site:http://www.uncg.edu/hdf/faculty/tudge > > Mailing address: > 248 Stone Building > Department of Human Development and Family Studies > PO Box 26170 > The University of North Carolina at Greensboro > Greensboro, NC 27402-6170 > USA > > phone (336) 223-6181 > fax (336) 334-5076 > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 8:45 PM, Charles Bazerman < > bazerman@education.ucsb.edu> wrote: > >> Of course we should remember that zoped has its origins in assessing the >> learning potential of special education/defectology students, so I couldn't >> imagine anything more appropriate. >> Chuck >> >> On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 3:34 PM, mike cole wrote: >> >>> Talk about strange bedfellows...... >>> >>> http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/02/dumbed- >>> down-security-briefings-still-too-difficult-for-trump.html >>> >>> for your reading pleasure >>> mike >>> >> From andyb@marxists.org Sat Feb 10 04:36:33 2018 From: andyb@marxists.org (Andy Blunden) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2018 23:36:33 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: A Presidential Zoped!! In-Reply-To: <2445ED8C-E2E5-4FBC-A0D9-38AB79F47A4A@btinternet.com> References: <2445ED8C-E2E5-4FBC-A0D9-38AB79F47A4A@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <377acc1e-bd06-4a72-0692-f9b9616fde63@marxists.org> Shirley, the President cannot realistically be described as a "student" in any sense of the word. andy ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm On 10/02/2018 11:29 PM, Shirley Franklin wrote: > Jon > Are you suggesting no potential in students with learning challenges? > I didn?t realise the zoped came from Vyogotskys work with ?defectology" students . I love that. > Shirley > > >> On 10 Feb 2018, at 10:31, Jonathan Tudge wrote: >> >> Sorry, Chuck, to be contrarian, but doesn't the zoped require that there be >> some potential? >> >> Jon >> >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> Jonathan Tudge >> >> Professor >> Office: 155 Stone >> >> Our work on gratitude: http://morethanthanks.wp.uncg.edu/ >> >> A new book just published: Tudge, J. & Freitas, L. (Eds.) Developing >> gratitude in children and adolescents >> , >> Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press >> >> My web site:http://www.uncg.edu/hdf/faculty/tudge >> >> Mailing address: >> 248 Stone Building >> Department of Human Development and Family Studies >> PO Box 26170 >> The University of North Carolina at Greensboro >> Greensboro, NC 27402-6170 >> USA >> >> phone (336) 223-6181 >> fax (336) 334-5076 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 8:45 PM, Charles Bazerman < >> bazerman@education.ucsb.edu> wrote: >> >>> Of course we should remember that zoped has its origins in assessing the >>> learning potential of special education/defectology students, so I couldn't >>> imagine anything more appropriate. >>> Chuck >>> >>> On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 3:34 PM, mike cole wrote: >>> >>>> Talk about strange bedfellows...... >>>> >>>> http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/02/dumbed- >>>> down-security-briefings-still-too-difficult-for-trump.html >>>> >>>> for your reading pleasure >>>> mike >>>> > From bazerman@education.ucsb.edu Sat Feb 10 08:27:18 2018 From: bazerman@education.ucsb.edu (Charles Bazerman) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2018 08:27:18 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: A Presidential Zoped!! In-Reply-To: <377acc1e-bd06-4a72-0692-f9b9616fde63@marxists.org> References: <2445ED8C-E2E5-4FBC-A0D9-38AB79F47A4A@btinternet.com> <377acc1e-bd06-4a72-0692-f9b9616fde63@marxists.org> Message-ID: School For Grifters? School for Scandal? But of course the best students quickly learn how not to get exposed. So this brings us back to the assessment of the struggling student. Chuck On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 4:36 AM, Andy Blunden wrote: > Shirley, the President cannot realistically be described as > a "student" in any sense of the word. > > andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > On 10/02/2018 11:29 PM, Shirley Franklin wrote: > > Jon > > Are you suggesting no potential in students with learning challenges? > > I didn?t realise the zoped came from Vyogotskys work with ?defectology" > students . I love that. > > Shirley > > > > > >> On 10 Feb 2018, at 10:31, Jonathan Tudge wrote: > >> > >> Sorry, Chuck, to be contrarian, but doesn't the zoped require that > there be > >> some potential? > >> > >> Jon > >> > >> > >> ~~~~~~~~~~~ > >> > >> Jonathan Tudge > >> > >> Professor > >> Office: 155 Stone > >> > >> Our work on gratitude: http://morethanthanks.wp.uncg.edu/ > >> > >> A new book just published: Tudge, J. & Freitas, L. (Eds.) Developing > >> gratitude in children and adolescents > >> gratitude-in-children-and-adolescents-flyer.pdf>, > >> Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press > >> > >> My web site:http://www.uncg.edu/hdf/faculty/tudge > >> > >> Mailing address: > >> 248 Stone Building > >> Department of Human Development and Family Studies > >> PO Box 26170 > >> The University of North Carolina at Greensboro > >> Greensboro, NC 27402-6170 > >> USA > >> > >> phone (336) 223-6181 > >> fax (336) 334-5076 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 8:45 PM, Charles Bazerman < > >> bazerman@education.ucsb.edu> wrote: > >> > >>> Of course we should remember that zoped has its origins in assessing > the > >>> learning potential of special education/defectology students, so I > couldn't > >>> imagine anything more appropriate. > >>> Chuck > >>> > >>> On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 3:34 PM, mike cole wrote: > >>> > >>>> Talk about strange bedfellows...... > >>>> > >>>> http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/02/dumbed- > >>>> down-security-briefings-still-too-difficult-for-trump.html > >>>> > >>>> for your reading pleasure > >>>> mike > >>>> > > > > From jrtudge@uncg.edu Sat Feb 10 09:03:54 2018 From: jrtudge@uncg.edu (Jonathan Tudge) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2018 12:03:54 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: A Presidential Zoped!! In-Reply-To: <377acc1e-bd06-4a72-0692-f9b9616fde63@marxists.org> References: <2445ED8C-E2E5-4FBC-A0D9-38AB79F47A4A@btinternet.com> <377acc1e-bd06-4a72-0692-f9b9616fde63@marxists.org> Message-ID: Surely the President cannot realistically be described as a "student" in any sense of the word. Jon ~~~~~~~~~~~ Jonathan Tudge Professor Office: 155 Stone Our work on gratitude: http://morethanthanks.wp.uncg.edu/ A new book just published: Tudge, J. & Freitas, L. (Eds.) Developing gratitude in children and adolescents , Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press My web site:http://www.uncg.edu/hdf/faculty/tudge Mailing address: 248 Stone Building Department of Human Development and Family Studies PO Box 26170 The University of North Carolina at Greensboro Greensboro, NC 27402-6170 USA phone (336) 223-6181 fax (336) 334-5076 On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 7:36 AM, Andy Blunden wrote: > Shirley, the President cannot realistically be described as > a "student" in any sense of the word. > > andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > On 10/02/2018 11:29 PM, Shirley Franklin wrote: > > Jon > > Are you suggesting no potential in students with learning challenges? > > I didn?t realise the zoped came from Vyogotskys work with ?defectology" > students . I love that. > > Shirley > > > > > >> On 10 Feb 2018, at 10:31, Jonathan Tudge wrote: > >> > >> Sorry, Chuck, to be contrarian, but doesn't the zoped require that > there be > >> some potential? > >> > >> Jon > >> > >> > >> ~~~~~~~~~~~ > >> > >> Jonathan Tudge > >> > >> Professor > >> Office: 155 Stone > >> > >> Our work on gratitude: http://morethanthanks.wp.uncg.edu/ > >> > >> A new book just published: Tudge, J. & Freitas, L. (Eds.) Developing > >> gratitude in children and adolescents > >> gratitude-in-children-and-adolescents-flyer.pdf>, > >> Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press > >> > >> My web site:http://www.uncg.edu/hdf/faculty/tudge > >> > >> Mailing address: > >> 248 Stone Building > >> Department of Human Development and Family Studies > >> PO Box 26170 > >> The University of North Carolina at Greensboro > >> Greensboro, NC 27402-6170 > >> USA > >> > >> phone (336) 223-6181 > >> fax (336) 334-5076 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 8:45 PM, Charles Bazerman < > >> bazerman@education.ucsb.edu> wrote: > >> > >>> Of course we should remember that zoped has its origins in assessing > the > >>> learning potential of special education/defectology students, so I > couldn't > >>> imagine anything more appropriate. > >>> Chuck > >>> > >>> On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 3:34 PM, mike cole wrote: > >>> > >>>> Talk about strange bedfellows...... > >>>> > >>>> http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/02/dumbed- > >>>> down-security-briefings-still-too-difficult-for-trump.html > >>>> > >>>> for your reading pleasure > >>>> mike > >>>> > > > > From s.franklin08@btinternet.com Sat Feb 10 09:04:26 2018 From: s.franklin08@btinternet.com (Shirley Franklin) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2018 17:04:26 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: A Presidential Zoped!! In-Reply-To: <377acc1e-bd06-4a72-0692-f9b9616fde63@marxists.org> References: <2445ED8C-E2E5-4FBC-A0D9-38AB79F47A4A@btinternet.com> <377acc1e-bd06-4a72-0692-f9b9616fde63@marxists.org> Message-ID: Perhaps i'ts me with not potential too. Shirley Franklin Timbercombe Barn Sway Road Brockenhurst Hampshire SO42 7RX Mob: 07958745802 Home 01590623305 > On 10 Feb 2018, at 12:36, Andy Blunden wrote: > > Shirley, the President cannot realistically be described as > a "student" in any sense of the word. > > andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > On 10/02/2018 11:29 PM, Shirley Franklin wrote: >> Jon >> Are you suggesting no potential in students with learning challenges? >> I didn?t realise the zoped came from Vyogotskys work with ?defectology" students . I love that. >> Shirley >> >> >>> On 10 Feb 2018, at 10:31, Jonathan Tudge wrote: >>> >>> Sorry, Chuck, to be contrarian, but doesn't the zoped require that there be >>> some potential? >>> >>> Jon >>> >>> >>> ~~~~~~~~~~~ >>> >>> Jonathan Tudge >>> >>> Professor >>> Office: 155 Stone >>> >>> Our work on gratitude: http://morethanthanks.wp.uncg.edu/ >>> >>> A new book just published: Tudge, J. & Freitas, L. (Eds.) Developing >>> gratitude in children and adolescents >>> , >>> Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press >>> >>> My web site:http://www.uncg.edu/hdf/faculty/tudge >>> >>> Mailing address: >>> 248 Stone Building >>> Department of Human Development and Family Studies >>> PO Box 26170 >>> The University of North Carolina at Greensboro >>> Greensboro, NC 27402-6170 >>> USA >>> >>> phone (336) 223-6181 >>> fax (336) 334-5076 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 8:45 PM, Charles Bazerman < >>> bazerman@education.ucsb.edu> wrote: >>> >>>> Of course we should remember that zoped has its origins in assessing the >>>> learning potential of special education/defectology students, so I couldn't >>>> imagine anything more appropriate. >>>> Chuck >>>> >>>> On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 3:34 PM, mike cole wrote: >>>> >>>>> Talk about strange bedfellows...... >>>>> >>>>> http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/02/dumbed- >>>>> down-security-briefings-still-too-difficult-for-trump.html >>>>> >>>>> for your reading pleasure >>>>> mike >>>>> >> > From Peg.Griffin@att.net Sat Feb 10 10:37:48 2018 From: Peg.Griffin@att.net (Peg Griffin) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2018 13:37:48 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: A Presidential Zoped!! In-Reply-To: References: <2445ED8C-E2E5-4FBC-A0D9-38AB79F47A4A@btinternet.com> <377acc1e-bd06-4a72-0692-f9b9616fde63@marxists.org> Message-ID: <003d01d3a29e$40c410c0$c24c3240$@att.net> This gives me a few things to think about when assessing a person with respect to a task: Whether in a Zo-ped model or not, we recognize that "not doing it" is of a different order than both "can't" and "won't." Whether in a Zo-ped or not, we have to determine which task the person is doing -- just because we provide materials and a task demand/expectation, we cannot be sure the person of interest has the same goal and task that we expect, right? Any operation or action is relentlessly ambiguous -- capable of constructing/being constructed by/within many different activities/projects that co-exist in time and space, right? So the person may not be anywhere near the task we think is going on or that we are trying to engineer or implement. (And, needless to say, any performance could be is or isn't doing it, and not definitively a "can't" or "won't.") In a Zo-ped, we get more to think about, given those "near peers" and "adults" co-constructing the tasks and responses, as well as the moving arrow of time. Who are those people who are doing some "it" when the person of interest is not (yet) doing it? What do they tell us about the set of alternate disambiguating operations/actions/activities-- perhaps the person of interest "can" do (and is doing) something that re-designs or deletes our task so he won't do it, while an accident or a plan makes it seem to us as if he "cannot" or "will not" do the task we think he is doing? In Fifth dimension types settings, we assume the child is acting on "really effective" motives and as we cooperate in the scene we can instantiate some "merely understood" motives that can coexist with the really effective ones and maybe even merge together so our children and our cultures have a future. In the current case, there's a crowd around (physically or figuratively) when our person of interest receives his ever fewer "briefings" that some assume he cannot understand, but I say, not so fast, is it won't or doesn't or can't? AND what's the task he's on anyhow? The list items below is incomplete, no doubt, and begins with a draft motive and include some names. But, many of the folks and motives are in not-so-loose allegiance to each other. 1. Saving capitalisim from democracy from (e.g., Mnuchin) 2. Adhering to white supremacy (e.g., Stephen Miller) (BTW, a great sign: "white supremacist" is edited with a caret after the "m" for including "e r" yielding "supreme racist") 3. Promoting more xenophobia (Kelly) 4. Serving misogyny 5. Preserving enmity and inequity (the last two, I think, our person of interest might be doing independent of any particular near peers or adults in his sphere.) All I really know is that he is not doing tasks we have set. Maybe he and his peers can't, maybe they won't, but certainly they aren't. And so we resist, trying to make really effective what is merely understood. And it reminds me of a foundation staff member visiting the earliest Fifth Dimension who commented that each and every child was just about always on task. Hee, hee, I thought that's like saying it's raining really hard and people are getting wet. There are about a gazillion different interesting tasks any child could be on at any given time. Fifth Dimension citizens ruled by the Wizard had "really effective" choices and chances galore so when adults joined in they could get a better idea of what was happening as they cooperated with the children while holding some "merely understood" motives in the stratospshere. (Clearly I am reflecting (appropriating) LCHC and the readings and discussions we had there!) Peg -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Charles Bazerman Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 11:27 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: A Presidential Zoped!! School For Grifters? School for Scandal? But of course the best students quickly learn how not to get exposed. So this brings us back to the assessment of the struggling student. Chuck On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 4:36 AM, Andy Blunden wrote: > Shirley, the President cannot realistically be described as a > "student" in any sense of the word. > > andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > On 10/02/2018 11:29 PM, Shirley Franklin wrote: > > Jon > > Are you suggesting no potential in students with learning challenges? > > I didn?t realise the zoped came from Vyogotskys work with ?defectology" > students . I love that. > > Shirley > > > > > >> On 10 Feb 2018, at 10:31, Jonathan Tudge wrote: > >> > >> Sorry, Chuck, to be contrarian, but doesn't the zoped require that > there be > >> some potential? > >> > >> Jon > >> > >> > >> ~~~~~~~~~~~ > >> > >> Jonathan Tudge > >> > >> Professor > >> Office: 155 Stone > >> > >> Our work on gratitude: http://morethanthanks.wp.uncg.edu/ > >> > >> A new book just published: Tudge, J. & Freitas, L. (Eds.) > >> Developing gratitude in children and adolescents > >> gratitude-in-children-and-adolescents-flyer.pdf>, > >> Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press > >> > >> My web site:http://www.uncg.edu/hdf/faculty/tudge > >> > >> Mailing address: > >> 248 Stone Building > >> Department of Human Development and Family Studies PO Box 26170 The > >> University of North Carolina at Greensboro Greensboro, NC > >> 27402-6170 USA > >> > >> phone (336) 223-6181 > >> fax (336) 334-5076 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 8:45 PM, Charles Bazerman < > >> bazerman@education.ucsb.edu> wrote: > >> > >>> Of course we should remember that zoped has its origins in > >>> assessing > the > >>> learning potential of special education/defectology students, so I > couldn't > >>> imagine anything more appropriate. > >>> Chuck > >>> > >>> On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 3:34 PM, mike cole wrote: > >>> > >>>> Talk about strange bedfellows...... > >>>> > >>>> http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/02/dumbed- > >>>> down-security-briefings-still-too-difficult-for-trump.html > >>>> > >>>> for your reading pleasure > >>>> mike > >>>> > > > > From smago@uga.edu Sat Feb 10 11:31:20 2018 From: smago@uga.edu (Peter Smagorinsky) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2018 19:31:20 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] new book of possible interest to Vygotskian people Message-ID: Vygotsky?s Notebooks: A Selection ?katerina Zavershneva, Rene van der Veer, Editors Springer, 2018 Contents 1 A Tragicomedy of Strivings . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 2 Jewry and World History . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11 3 The Book of Fragments . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 21 4 The Jewish Question . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 41 5 Genres of Writing . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 51 6 The Trip to London . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 57 7 From the Zakharino Hospital. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 71 8 Toward Cultural?Historical Theory. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 107 9 The Instrumental Method. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 115 10 Concepts and the Systemic Approach . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 129 11 The Anomalous Development of the Child . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 155 12 From the EDI Clinic . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 177 13 Spinoza and the Problem of Higher Emotions . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 209 14 Observing Asya . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 237 15 The Study of Consciousness . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 243 16 From Sign to Meaning and Sense . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 251 17 The Problem of Consciousness . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 271 18 The Semic Method . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 291 19 The Result of Many Years of Work. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 311 20 Disintegration and Schizophrenia. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 319 21 Thinking and Speech. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 353 22 Psychology as a Science . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 367 23 Dubious Moves . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 383 24 The Conference of October 27?29, 1933 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 391 25 The Semantic Field: Sparring with Lewin. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 403 26 Neuropsychology . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 419 27 Difficult Children. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 437 28 The Playing Child . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 459 29 The Rest is Silence . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 483 Author Index. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 503 Subject Index. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Preface It is ironic that Lev Vygotsky, who claimed for many years that mental development is about the internalization of external signs and that external signs must be replaced by inner ones during the course of such development, made notes throughout his life. It seems he was always making notes on whatever was at hand (e.g., cards, maps, pieces of paper, forms) and whatever he was doing (e.g., visiting museums, attending lectures, reading books, examining patients). Subsequently, these notes formed the basis of lectures, articles, and books. This book contains a selection of these notes found in Vygotsky?s personal archive. They were meticulously studied and deciphered by the first editor and, in cases of doubt, by both editors. The second editor provided a first translation of the text, and together the editors tried to solve the remaining linguistic and conceptual problems. Elsewhere one of us has argued that the fact that Vygotsky became popular long after his death causes problems for the modern reader (Van der Veer 2014, p. 4). We know so little of the psychology of the early 20th century that it is easy to attribute ideas to Vygotsky that were common at the time or fail to see the novelty of the ideas he advanced. In the words of Boring (1950, p. ix): ?Without such knowledge he [the reader] sees the present in distorted perspective, he mistakes old facts and old views for new, and he remains unable to evaluate the significance of new movements and methods.? This is why the editors have supplied introductions and what may seem an excessive number of notes to the text. It is their hope that these will allow the reader to at least partially reconstruct the historical context of Vygotsky?s ideas. In writing these introductions and notes, they relied on the usual encyclopedias (notably, Wikipedia), read scores of articles and books by Vygotsky and his contemporaries, and were especially pleased with the existence of digitalized older books. The editors were also morally supported by colleagues and friends (e.g., Tatyana Akhutina, Igor Arievitch, Irina Kazakova, Peter Keiler, Alexandre M?traux, Maksim Osipov, Yakov Sinichkin, Natal?ya Stoyukhina, Anton Yasnitsky) and felt free to bother them with silly or difficult questions. In rare cases, they believed they knew something themselves. The result of this effort is what Vygotsky regarded as typical for the modern Western person: borrowed knowledge, e.g., knowledge that is transmitted from expert to novice. Few readers have been in the Sahara; yet most of them believe it is a hot and sandy place in the daytime. Even with the introductions and the footnotes, this volume requires some hard work by the reader, and the editors do not claim that they fully understand each and every part of the text. After all, a large part of this text was written for private use, and arguments were not spelled out. Moreover, sometimes is not even clear whether Vygotsky gives his own point of view or summarizes the view of a colleague. Hopefully, discussions of this volume in the scientific press and on the Internet will help to solve the remaining problems of comprehension. The publication of private notebooks always involves some modifications, and we wish to explain the procedure we followed. First, the text was deciphered and typed. This in itself is no easy task because Vygotsky?s handwriting was not always clear, and he frequently used abbreviations of his own invention (e.g., ?m.r.? for ?mental retardation? or ?hndwrtng? for ?handwriting?). One might say that his notebooks have several of the properties that Vygotsky himself ascribed to inner speech: abbreviations, references to things that are only clear to someone who has the same knowledge (e.g., ?See my talk?), etc. In typing the text of the notebooks, we lost the typical typographical features of a manuscript, that is, the underlining, the crossing out, the arrows, the writing upside down or backwards, the added remarks in the margins, and so on. Rendering these features in the book would have made it very unpleasant to read, but in the comments we have indicated what readers cannot see for themselves. In addition, we have corrected the mistakes in foreign words, expressions, citations, and names. Although Vygotsky read several languages, his active use of them left much to be desired. Words underlined by Vygotsky, book and journal titles, poetry lines, and foreign words are rendered in italics. In the rare cases that Vygotsky himself used English words or expressions, these are given in bold script. Punctuation has been mostly left intact?unless this made the understanding difficult?and we added quotation marks when Vygotsky was citing a poet or writer verbatim. Vygotsky was in the habit of repeatedly writing up the outlines of the same talk or chapter and had a stock of pet expressions and ideas to which he came back time and again, as the reader will see in the present edition. For this reason, in rare cases, we left out part of the text when it became excessively repetitive. These suppressed passages have been indicated with angle brackets and ellipses. Insertions and comments by the editors are given in square brackets (i.e., [ ]) and/or small script. Words that were difficult or impossible to decipher are given in angle brackets (i.e., < >) with either our best guess or the word ?illegible.? Finally, this book was edited by two authors who have never met each other and communicated solely through email. There is no doubt that this caused some disadvantages? e.g., written speech needs to be much more elaborate than oral speech ?and it is better not to speculate about the possible advantages. However, we sincerely believe that the present result once more shows the truth of Feuerbach?s dictum, that what is impossible for one person is possible for two. Moscow, Russia ?katerina Zavershneva Leiden, The Netherlands Ren? van der Veer References Boring, E. G. (1950). A history of experimental psychology. Englewood Cliffs, NJ: Prentice Hall. Van der Veer, R. (2014). Lev Vygotsky. London: Bloomsbury. From mcole@ucsd.edu Sat Feb 10 11:34:49 2018 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2018 11:34:49 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: new book of possible interest to Vygotskian people In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It sure looks interesting, but you neglected to tell us the price, Peter. mike On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 11:31 AM, Peter Smagorinsky wrote: > > Vygotsky?s Notebooks: A Selection > ?katerina Zavershneva, Rene van der Veer, Editors > Springer, 2018 > > Contents > 1 A Tragicomedy of Strivings . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . 1 > 2 Jewry and World History . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . 11 > 3 The Book of Fragments . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . 21 > 4 The Jewish Question . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . . . 41 > 5 Genres of Writing . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . . . . 51 > 6 The Trip to London . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . . 57 > 7 From the Zakharino Hospital. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . 71 > 8 Toward Cultural?Historical Theory. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . 107 > 9 The Instrumental Method. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . 115 > 10 Concepts and the Systemic Approach . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . 129 > 11 The Anomalous Development of the Child . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . 155 > 12 From the EDI Clinic . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . . . 177 > 13 Spinoza and the Problem of Higher Emotions . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . 209 > 14 Observing Asya . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 237 > 15 The Study of Consciousness . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . 243 > 16 From Sign to Meaning and Sense . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . 251 > 17 The Problem of Consciousness . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . 271 > 18 The Semic Method . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . . . 291 > 19 The Result of Many Years of Work. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . 311 > 20 Disintegration and Schizophrenia. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . 319 > 21 Thinking and Speech. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . . . 353 > 22 Psychology as a Science . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . . 367 > 23 Dubious Moves . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . . . . 383 > 24 The Conference of October 27?29, 1933 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . 391 > 25 The Semantic Field: Sparring with Lewin. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . 403 > 26 Neuropsychology . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . . . . 419 > 27 Difficult Children. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 437 > 28 The Playing Child . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . . . . 459 > 29 The Rest is Silence . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . . . . 483 > Author Index. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 503 > Subject Index. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > Preface > It is ironic that Lev Vygotsky, who claimed for many years that mental > development > is about the internalization of external signs and that external signs > must be > replaced by inner ones during the course of such development, made notes > throughout his life. It seems he was always making notes on whatever was > at hand > (e.g., cards, maps, pieces of paper, forms) and whatever he was doing > (e.g., visiting > museums, attending lectures, reading books, examining patients). > Subsequently, > these notes formed the basis of lectures, articles, and books. This book > contains a > selection of these notes found in Vygotsky?s personal archive. They were > meticulously > studied and deciphered by the first editor and, in cases of doubt, by both > editors. The second editor provided a first translation of the text, and > together the > editors tried to solve the remaining linguistic and conceptual problems. > Elsewhere one of us has argued that the fact that Vygotsky became popular > long after his death causes problems for the modern reader (Van der Veer > 2014, > p. 4). We know so little of the psychology of the early 20th century that > it is easy > to attribute ideas to Vygotsky that were common at the time or fail to see > the > novelty of the ideas he advanced. In the words of Boring (1950, p. ix): > ?Without > such knowledge he [the reader] sees the present in distorted perspective, > he > mistakes old facts and old views for new, and he remains unable to > evaluate the > significance of new movements and methods.? This is why the editors have > supplied introductions and what may seem an excessive number of notes to > the > text. It is their hope that these will allow the reader to at least > partially reconstruct > the historical context of Vygotsky?s ideas. In writing these introductions > and notes, > they relied on the usual encyclopedias (notably, Wikipedia), read scores > of articles > and books by Vygotsky and his contemporaries, and were especially pleased > with > the existence of digitalized older books. The editors were also morally > supported > by colleagues and friends (e.g., Tatyana Akhutina, Igor Arievitch, Irina > Kazakova, > Peter Keiler, Alexandre M?traux, Maksim Osipov, Yakov Sinichkin, Natal?ya > Stoyukhina, Anton Yasnitsky) and felt free to bother them with silly or > difficult > questions. In rare cases, they believed they knew something themselves. > The result > of this effort is what Vygotsky regarded as typical for the modern Western > person: > borrowed knowledge, e.g., knowledge that is transmitted from expert to > novice. > Few readers have been in the Sahara; yet most of them believe it is a hot > and > sandy place in the daytime. > Even with the introductions and the footnotes, this volume requires some > hard > work by the reader, and the editors do not claim that they fully > understand each and > every part of the text. After all, a large part of this text was written > for private use, > and arguments were not spelled out. Moreover, sometimes is not even clear > whether > Vygotsky gives his own point of view or summarizes the view of a colleague. > Hopefully, discussions of this volume in the scientific press and on the > Internet will > help to solve the remaining problems of comprehension. > The publication of private notebooks always involves some modifications, > and > we wish to explain the procedure we followed. First, the text was > deciphered and > typed. This in itself is no easy task because Vygotsky?s handwriting was > not always > clear, and he frequently used abbreviations of his own invention (e.g., > ?m.r.? for > ?mental retardation? or ?hndwrtng? for ?handwriting?). One might say that > his > notebooks have several of the properties that Vygotsky himself ascribed to > inner > speech: abbreviations, references to things that are only clear to someone > who has > the same knowledge (e.g., ?See my talk?), etc. In typing the text of the > notebooks, > we lost the typical typographical features of a manuscript, that is, the > underlining, > the crossing out, the arrows, the writing upside down or backwards, the > added > remarks in the margins, and so on. Rendering these features in the book > would have > made it very unpleasant to read, but in the comments we have indicated what > readers cannot see for themselves. In addition, we have corrected the > mistakes in > foreign words, expressions, citations, and names. Although Vygotsky read > several > languages, his active use of them left much to be desired. Words > underlined by > Vygotsky, book and journal titles, poetry lines, and foreign words are > rendered in > italics. In the rare cases that Vygotsky himself used English words or > expressions, > these are given in bold script. Punctuation has been mostly left > intact?unless this > made the understanding difficult?and we added quotation marks when Vygotsky > was citing a poet or writer verbatim. Vygotsky was in the habit of > repeatedly > writing up the outlines of the same talk or chapter and had a stock of pet > expressions > and ideas to which he came back time and again, as the reader will see in > the > present edition. For this reason, in rare cases, we left out part of the > text when it > became excessively repetitive. These suppressed passages have been > indicated with > angle brackets and ellipses. Insertions and comments by the editors are > given in > square brackets (i.e., [ ]) and/or small script. Words that were difficult > or impossible > to decipher are given in angle brackets (i.e., < >) with either our best > guess or the > word ?illegible.? > Finally, this book was edited by two authors who have never met each other > and > communicated solely through email. There is no doubt that this caused some > disadvantages? > e.g., written speech needs to be much more elaborate than oral speech > ?and it is better not to speculate about the possible advantages. However, > we > sincerely believe that the present result once more shows the truth of > Feuerbach?s > dictum, that what is impossible for one person is possible for two. > Moscow, Russia ?katerina Zavershneva > Leiden, The Netherlands Ren? van der Veer > References > Boring, E. G. (1950). A history of experimental psychology. Englewood > Cliffs, NJ: Prentice Hall. > Van der Veer, R. (2014). Lev Vygotsky. London: Bloomsbury. > From smago@uga.edu Sat Feb 10 11:39:24 2018 From: smago@uga.edu (Peter Smagorinsky) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2018 19:39:24 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: new book of possible interest to Vygotskian people In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I got this info from Rene, who was alarmed at the price. For those who just hit the lottery: $379.00 USD -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 2:35 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: new book of possible interest to Vygotskian people It sure looks interesting, but you neglected to tell us the price, Peter. mike On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 11:31 AM, Peter Smagorinsky wrote: > > Vygotsky?s Notebooks: A Selection > ?katerina Zavershneva, Rene van der Veer, Editors Springer, 2018 > > Contents > 1 A Tragicomedy of Strivings . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . 1 > 2 Jewry and World History . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . 11 > 3 The Book of Fragments . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . 21 > 4 The Jewish Question . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . . . 41 > 5 Genres of Writing . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . . . . 51 > 6 The Trip to London . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . . 57 > 7 From the Zakharino Hospital. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . 71 > 8 Toward Cultural?Historical Theory. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . 107 > 9 The Instrumental Method. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . 115 > 10 Concepts and the Systemic Approach . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . 129 > 11 The Anomalous Development of the Child . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . 155 > 12 From the EDI Clinic . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . . . 177 > 13 Spinoza and the Problem of Higher Emotions . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . 209 > 14 Observing Asya . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 237 > 15 The Study of Consciousness . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . 243 > 16 From Sign to Meaning and Sense . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . 251 > 17 The Problem of Consciousness . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . 271 > 18 The Semic Method . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . . . 291 > 19 The Result of Many Years of Work. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . 311 > 20 Disintegration and Schizophrenia. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . 319 > 21 Thinking and Speech. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . . . 353 > 22 Psychology as a Science . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . . 367 > 23 Dubious Moves . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . . . . 383 > 24 The Conference of October 27?29, 1933 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . 391 > 25 The Semantic Field: Sparring with Lewin. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . 403 > 26 Neuropsychology . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . . . . 419 > 27 Difficult Children. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 437 > 28 The Playing Child . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . . . . 459 > 29 The Rest is Silence . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . . . . 483 > Author Index. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 503 > Subject Index. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > Preface > It is ironic that Lev Vygotsky, who claimed for many years that mental > development is about the internalization of external signs and that > external signs must be replaced by inner ones during the course of > such development, made notes throughout his life. It seems he was > always making notes on whatever was at hand (e.g., cards, maps, pieces > of paper, forms) and whatever he was doing (e.g., visiting museums, > attending lectures, reading books, examining patients). > Subsequently, > these notes formed the basis of lectures, articles, and books. This > book contains a selection of these notes found in Vygotsky?s personal > archive. They were meticulously studied and deciphered by the first > editor and, in cases of doubt, by both editors. The second editor > provided a first translation of the text, and together the editors > tried to solve the remaining linguistic and conceptual problems. > Elsewhere one of us has argued that the fact that Vygotsky became > popular long after his death causes problems for the modern reader > (Van der Veer 2014, p. 4). We know so little of the psychology of the > early 20th century that it is easy to attribute ideas to Vygotsky that > were common at the time or fail to see the novelty of the ideas he > advanced. In the words of Boring (1950, p. ix): > ?Without > such knowledge he [the reader] sees the present in distorted > perspective, he mistakes old facts and old views for new, and he > remains unable to evaluate the significance of new movements and > methods.? This is why the editors have supplied introductions and what > may seem an excessive number of notes to the text. It is their hope > that these will allow the reader to at least partially reconstruct the > historical context of Vygotsky?s ideas. In writing these introductions > and notes, they relied on the usual encyclopedias (notably, > Wikipedia), read scores of articles and books by Vygotsky and his > contemporaries, and were especially pleased with the existence of > digitalized older books. The editors were also morally supported by > colleagues and friends (e.g., Tatyana Akhutina, Igor Arievitch, Irina > Kazakova, Peter Keiler, Alexandre M?traux, Maksim Osipov, Yakov > Sinichkin, Natal?ya Stoyukhina, Anton Yasnitsky) and felt free to > bother them with silly or difficult questions. In rare cases, they > believed they knew something themselves. > The result > of this effort is what Vygotsky regarded as typical for the modern > Western > person: > borrowed knowledge, e.g., knowledge that is transmitted from expert to > novice. > Few readers have been in the Sahara; yet most of them believe it is a > hot and sandy place in the daytime. > Even with the introductions and the footnotes, this volume requires > some hard work by the reader, and the editors do not claim that they > fully understand each and every part of the text. After all, a large > part of this text was written for private use, and arguments were not > spelled out. Moreover, sometimes is not even clear whether Vygotsky > gives his own point of view or summarizes the view of a colleague. > Hopefully, discussions of this volume in the scientific press and on > the Internet will help to solve the remaining problems of > comprehension. > The publication of private notebooks always involves some > modifications, and we wish to explain the procedure we followed. > First, the text was deciphered and typed. This in itself is no easy > task because Vygotsky?s handwriting was not always clear, and he > frequently used abbreviations of his own invention (e.g., ?m.r.? for > ?mental retardation? or ?hndwrtng? for ?handwriting?). One might say > that his notebooks have several of the properties that Vygotsky > himself ascribed to inner > speech: abbreviations, references to things that are only clear to > someone who has the same knowledge (e.g., ?See my talk?), etc. In > typing the text of the notebooks, we lost the typical typographical > features of a manuscript, that is, the underlining, the crossing out, > the arrows, the writing upside down or backwards, the added remarks in > the margins, and so on. Rendering these features in the book would > have made it very unpleasant to read, but in the comments we have > indicated what readers cannot see for themselves. In addition, we have > corrected the mistakes in foreign words, expressions, citations, and > names. Although Vygotsky read several languages, his active use of > them left much to be desired. Words underlined by Vygotsky, book and > journal titles, poetry lines, and foreign words are rendered in > italics. In the rare cases that Vygotsky himself used English words or > expressions, these are given in bold script. Punctuation has been > mostly left intact?unless this made the understanding difficult?and we > added quotation marks when Vygotsky was citing a poet or writer > verbatim. Vygotsky was in the habit of repeatedly writing up the > outlines of the same talk or chapter and had a stock of pet > expressions and ideas to which he came back time and again, as the > reader will see in the present edition. For this reason, in rare > cases, we left out part of the text when it became excessively > repetitive. These suppressed passages have been indicated with angle > brackets and ellipses. Insertions and comments by the editors are > given in square brackets (i.e., [ ]) and/or small script. Words that > were difficult or impossible to decipher are given in angle brackets > (i.e., < >) with either our best guess or the word ?illegible.? > Finally, this book was edited by two authors who have never met each > other and communicated solely through email. There is no doubt that > this caused some disadvantages? e.g., written speech needs to be much > more elaborate than oral speech ?and it is better not to speculate > about the possible advantages. However, we sincerely believe that the > present result once more shows the truth of Feuerbach?s dictum, that > what is impossible for one person is possible for two. > Moscow, Russia ?katerina Zavershneva > Leiden, The Netherlands Ren? van der Veer References Boring, E. G. > (1950). A history of experimental psychology. Englewood Cliffs, NJ: > Prentice Hall. > Van der Veer, R. (2014). Lev Vygotsky. London: Bloomsbury. > From blantonwe@gmail.com Sat Feb 10 12:51:46 2018 From: blantonwe@gmail.com (William Blanton) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2018 13:51:46 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Bronfenbrenner Discussion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: William Blanton On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 3:36 PM, mike cole wrote: > (New Header to make room for Peter and varieties of cultural psychology > discussion) > > Jon- From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Sat Feb 10 14:41:15 2018 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2018 22:41:15 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: new book of possible interest to Vygotskian people In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: <1518302475278.80266@iped.uio.no> I had been waiting for this book to come out; but I was not aware of the price, and how privileged we who have access to most Springer publications through institutional (university, etc) affiliation are. Alfredo ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Peter Smagorinsky Sent: 10 February 2018 20:39 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: new book of possible interest to Vygotskian people I got this info from Rene, who was alarmed at the price. For those who just hit the lottery: $379.00 USD -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 2:35 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: new book of possible interest to Vygotskian people It sure looks interesting, but you neglected to tell us the price, Peter. mike On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 11:31 AM, Peter Smagorinsky wrote: > > Vygotsky??s Notebooks: A Selection > ??katerina Zavershneva, Rene van der Veer, Editors Springer, 2018 > > Contents > 1 A Tragicomedy of Strivings . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . 1 > 2 Jewry and World History . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . 11 > 3 The Book of Fragments . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . 21 > 4 The Jewish Question . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . . . 41 > 5 Genres of Writing . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . . . . 51 > 6 The Trip to London . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . . 57 > 7 From the Zakharino Hospital. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . 71 > 8 Toward Cultural?CHistorical Theory. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . 107 > 9 The Instrumental Method. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . 115 > 10 Concepts and the Systemic Approach . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . 129 > 11 The Anomalous Development of the Child . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . 155 > 12 From the EDI Clinic . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . . . 177 > 13 Spinoza and the Problem of Higher Emotions . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . 209 > 14 Observing Asya . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 237 > 15 The Study of Consciousness . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . 243 > 16 From Sign to Meaning and Sense . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . 251 > 17 The Problem of Consciousness . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . 271 > 18 The Semic Method . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . . . 291 > 19 The Result of Many Years of Work. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . 311 > 20 Disintegration and Schizophrenia. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . 319 > 21 Thinking and Speech. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . . . 353 > 22 Psychology as a Science . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . . 367 > 23 Dubious Moves . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . . . . 383 > 24 The Conference of October 27?C29, 1933 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . 391 > 25 The Semantic Field: Sparring with Lewin. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . 403 > 26 Neuropsychology . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . . . . 419 > 27 Difficult Children. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 437 > 28 The Playing Child . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . . . . 459 > 29 The Rest is Silence . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . . . . 483 > Author Index. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 503 > Subject Index. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > Preface > It is ironic that Lev Vygotsky, who claimed for many years that mental > development is about the internalization of external signs and that > external signs must be replaced by inner ones during the course of > such development, made notes throughout his life. It seems he was > always making notes on whatever was at hand (e.g., cards, maps, pieces > of paper, forms) and whatever he was doing (e.g., visiting museums, > attending lectures, reading books, examining patients). > Subsequently, > these notes formed the basis of lectures, articles, and books. This > book contains a selection of these notes found in Vygotsky??s personal > archive. They were meticulously studied and deciphered by the first > editor and, in cases of doubt, by both editors. The second editor > provided a first translation of the text, and together the editors > tried to solve the remaining linguistic and conceptual problems. > Elsewhere one of us has argued that the fact that Vygotsky became > popular long after his death causes problems for the modern reader > (Van der Veer 2014, p. 4). We know so little of the psychology of the > early 20th century that it is easy to attribute ideas to Vygotsky that > were common at the time or fail to see the novelty of the ideas he > advanced. In the words of Boring (1950, p. ix): > ??Without > such knowledge he [the reader] sees the present in distorted > perspective, he mistakes old facts and old views for new, and he > remains unable to evaluate the significance of new movements and > methods.?? This is why the editors have supplied introductions and what > may seem an excessive number of notes to the text. It is their hope > that these will allow the reader to at least partially reconstruct the > historical context of Vygotsky??s ideas. In writing these introductions > and notes, they relied on the usual encyclopedias (notably, > Wikipedia), read scores of articles and books by Vygotsky and his > contemporaries, and were especially pleased with the existence of > digitalized older books. The editors were also morally supported by > colleagues and friends (e.g., Tatyana Akhutina, Igor Arievitch, Irina > Kazakova, Peter Keiler, Alexandre M??traux, Maksim Osipov, Yakov > Sinichkin, Natal??ya Stoyukhina, Anton Yasnitsky) and felt free to > bother them with silly or difficult questions. In rare cases, they > believed they knew something themselves. > The result > of this effort is what Vygotsky regarded as typical for the modern > Western > person: > borrowed knowledge, e.g., knowledge that is transmitted from expert to > novice. > Few readers have been in the Sahara; yet most of them believe it is a > hot and sandy place in the daytime. > Even with the introductions and the footnotes, this volume requires > some hard work by the reader, and the editors do not claim that they > fully understand each and every part of the text. After all, a large > part of this text was written for private use, and arguments were not > spelled out. Moreover, sometimes is not even clear whether Vygotsky > gives his own point of view or summarizes the view of a colleague. > Hopefully, discussions of this volume in the scientific press and on > the Internet will help to solve the remaining problems of > comprehension. > The publication of private notebooks always involves some > modifications, and we wish to explain the procedure we followed. > First, the text was deciphered and typed. This in itself is no easy > task because Vygotsky??s handwriting was not always clear, and he > frequently used abbreviations of his own invention (e.g., ??m.r.?? for > ??mental retardation?? or ??hndwrtng?? for ??handwriting??). One might say > that his notebooks have several of the properties that Vygotsky > himself ascribed to inner > speech: abbreviations, references to things that are only clear to > someone who has the same knowledge (e.g., ??See my talk??), etc. In > typing the text of the notebooks, we lost the typical typographical > features of a manuscript, that is, the underlining, the crossing out, > the arrows, the writing upside down or backwards, the added remarks in > the margins, and so on. Rendering these features in the book would > have made it very unpleasant to read, but in the comments we have > indicated what readers cannot see for themselves. In addition, we have > corrected the mistakes in foreign words, expressions, citations, and > names. Although Vygotsky read several languages, his active use of > them left much to be desired. Words underlined by Vygotsky, book and > journal titles, poetry lines, and foreign words are rendered in > italics. In the rare cases that Vygotsky himself used English words or > expressions, these are given in bold script. Punctuation has been > mostly left intact??unless this made the understanding difficult??and we > added quotation marks when Vygotsky was citing a poet or writer > verbatim. Vygotsky was in the habit of repeatedly writing up the > outlines of the same talk or chapter and had a stock of pet > expressions and ideas to which he came back time and again, as the > reader will see in the present edition. For this reason, in rare > cases, we left out part of the text when it became excessively > repetitive. These suppressed passages have been indicated with angle > brackets and ellipses. Insertions and comments by the editors are > given in square brackets (i.e., [ ]) and/or small script. Words that > were difficult or impossible to decipher are given in angle brackets > (i.e., < >) with either our best guess or the word ??illegible.?? > Finally, this book was edited by two authors who have never met each > other and communicated solely through email. There is no doubt that > this caused some disadvantages?? e.g., written speech needs to be much > more elaborate than oral speech ??and it is better not to speculate > about the possible advantages. However, we sincerely believe that the > present result once more shows the truth of Feuerbach??s dictum, that > what is impossible for one person is possible for two. > Moscow, Russia ??katerina Zavershneva > Leiden, The Netherlands Ren?? van der Veer References Boring, E. G. > (1950). A history of experimental psychology. Englewood Cliffs, NJ: > Prentice Hall. > Van der Veer, R. (2014). Lev Vygotsky. London: Bloomsbury. > From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Sat Feb 10 15:03:00 2018 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2018 23:03:00 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: A Presidential Zoped!! In-Reply-To: <003d01d3a29e$40c410c0$c24c3240$@att.net> References: <2445ED8C-E2E5-4FBC-A0D9-38AB79F47A4A@btinternet.com> <377acc1e-bd06-4a72-0692-f9b9616fde63@marxists.org> , <003d01d3a29e$40c410c0$c24c3240$@att.net> Message-ID: <1518303780889.2566@iped.uio.no> I thought Jon was suggesting that there was no potential in THIS president not because he couldn't, but as Peg puts it, because he simply is not on it. Just as Peg suggests, for there to be a "it" of which the zoped is about, that "it" has to be a joint achievement: a social relation that first exist as social relation, and only later as something that the individual exhibits. But the article Mike shared is illuminating at the end, that even with the narrowest report, what they end up doing is discussing the Fox news and the tweets anyway, and that's where growth seems to go. He certainly learns and can learn. Just not what education was (or should be) about, I am afraid. Alfredo ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Peg Griffin Sent: 10 February 2018 19:37 To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: A Presidential Zoped!! This gives me a few things to think about when assessing a person with respect to a task: Whether in a Zo-ped model or not, we recognize that "not doing it" is of a different order than both "can't" and "won't." Whether in a Zo-ped or not, we have to determine which task the person is doing -- just because we provide materials and a task demand/expectation, we cannot be sure the person of interest has the same goal and task that we expect, right? Any operation or action is relentlessly ambiguous -- capable of constructing/being constructed by/within many different activities/projects that co-exist in time and space, right? So the person may not be anywhere near the task we think is going on or that we are trying to engineer or implement. (And, needless to say, any performance could be is or isn't doing it, and not definitively a "can't" or "won't.") In a Zo-ped, we get more to think about, given those "near peers" and "adults" co-constructing the tasks and responses, as well as the moving arrow of time. Who are those people who are doing some "it" when the person of interest is not (yet) doing it? What do they tell us about the set of alternate disambiguating operations/actions/activities-- perhaps the person of interest "can" do (and is doing) something that re-designs or deletes our task so he won't do it, while an accident or a plan makes it seem to us as if he "cannot" or "will not" do the task we think he is doing? In Fifth dimension types settings, we assume the child is acting on "really effective" motives and as we cooperate in the scene we can instantiate some "merely understood" motives that can coexist with the really effective ones and maybe even merge together so our children and our cultures have a future. In the current case, there's a crowd around (physically or figuratively) when our person of interest receives his ever fewer "briefings" that some assume he cannot understand, but I say, not so fast, is it won't or doesn't or can't? AND what's the task he's on anyhow? The list items below is incomplete, no doubt, and begins with a draft motive and include some names. But, many of the folks and motives are in not-so-loose allegiance to each other. 1. Saving capitalisim from democracy from (e.g., Mnuchin) 2. Adhering to white supremacy (e.g., Stephen Miller) (BTW, a great sign: "white supremacist" is edited with a caret after the "m" for including "e r" yielding "supreme racist") 3. Promoting more xenophobia (Kelly) 4. Serving misogyny 5. Preserving enmity and inequity (the last two, I think, our person of interest might be doing independent of any particular near peers or adults in his sphere.) All I really know is that he is not doing tasks we have set. Maybe he and his peers can't, maybe they won't, but certainly they aren't. And so we resist, trying to make really effective what is merely understood. And it reminds me of a foundation staff member visiting the earliest Fifth Dimension who commented that each and every child was just about always on task. Hee, hee, I thought that's like saying it's raining really hard and people are getting wet. There are about a gazillion different interesting tasks any child could be on at any given time. Fifth Dimension citizens ruled by the Wizard had "really effective" choices and chances galore so when adults joined in they could get a better idea of what was happening as they cooperated with the children while holding some "merely understood" motives in the stratospshere. (Clearly I am reflecting (appropriating) LCHC and the readings and discussions we had there!) Peg -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Charles Bazerman Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 11:27 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: A Presidential Zoped!! School For Grifters? School for Scandal? But of course the best students quickly learn how not to get exposed. So this brings us back to the assessment of the struggling student. Chuck On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 4:36 AM, Andy Blunden wrote: > Shirley, the President cannot realistically be described as a > "student" in any sense of the word. > > andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > On 10/02/2018 11:29 PM, Shirley Franklin wrote: > > Jon > > Are you suggesting no potential in students with learning challenges? > > I didn?t realise the zoped came from Vyogotskys work with ?defectology" > students . I love that. > > Shirley > > > > > >> On 10 Feb 2018, at 10:31, Jonathan Tudge wrote: > >> > >> Sorry, Chuck, to be contrarian, but doesn't the zoped require that > there be > >> some potential? > >> > >> Jon > >> > >> > >> ~~~~~~~~~~~ > >> > >> Jonathan Tudge > >> > >> Professor > >> Office: 155 Stone > >> > >> Our work on gratitude: http://morethanthanks.wp.uncg.edu/ > >> > >> A new book just published: Tudge, J. & Freitas, L. (Eds.) > >> Developing gratitude in children and adolescents > >> gratitude-in-children-and-adolescents-flyer.pdf>, > >> Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press > >> > >> My web site:http://www.uncg.edu/hdf/faculty/tudge > >> > >> Mailing address: > >> 248 Stone Building > >> Department of Human Development and Family Studies PO Box 26170 The > >> University of North Carolina at Greensboro Greensboro, NC > >> 27402-6170 USA > >> > >> phone (336) 223-6181 > >> fax (336) 334-5076 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 8:45 PM, Charles Bazerman < > >> bazerman@education.ucsb.edu> wrote: > >> > >>> Of course we should remember that zoped has its origins in > >>> assessing > the > >>> learning potential of special education/defectology students, so I > couldn't > >>> imagine anything more appropriate. > >>> Chuck > >>> > >>> On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 3:34 PM, mike cole wrote: > >>> > >>>> Talk about strange bedfellows...... > >>>> > >>>> http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/02/dumbed- > >>>> down-security-briefings-still-too-difficult-for-trump.html > >>>> > >>>> for your reading pleasure > >>>> mike > >>>> > > > > From mcole@ucsd.edu Sun Feb 11 09:12:57 2018 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2018 09:12:57 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: new book of possible interest to Vygotskian people In-Reply-To: <1518302475278.80266@iped.uio.no> References: <1518302475278.80266@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: Peter, Alfredo, et al --- The following url for the Vygotsky notebooks book was posted on Facebook. https://yadi.sk/i/n7B3gak-3SCVMd Publishing appears another institution of modernity that is melting away. mike On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 2:41 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > I had been waiting for this book to come out; but I was not aware of the > price, and how privileged we who have access to most Springer publications > through institutional (university, etc) affiliation are. > Alfredo > ________________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Peter Smagorinsky > Sent: 10 February 2018 20:39 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: new book of possible interest to Vygotskian people > > I got this info from Rene, who was alarmed at the price. For those who > just hit the lottery: $379.00 USD > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole > Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 2:35 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: new book of possible interest to Vygotskian people > > It sure looks interesting, but you neglected to tell us the price, Peter. > mike > > On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 11:31 AM, Peter Smagorinsky wrote: > > > > > Vygotsky?s Notebooks: A Selection > > ?katerina Zavershneva, Rene van der Veer, Editors Springer, 2018 > > > > Contents > > 1 A Tragicomedy of Strivings . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . > > . . . . . . . . . 1 > > 2 Jewry and World History . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > > . . . . . . . . . . 11 > > 3 The Book of Fragments . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > > . . . . . . . . . . 21 > > 4 The Jewish Question . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > > . . . . . . . . . . . . 41 > > 5 Genres of Writing . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > > . . . . . . . . . . . . . 51 > > 6 The Trip to London . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . > > . . . . . . . . . . . 57 > > 7 From the Zakharino Hospital. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . > > . . . . . . . . 71 > > 8 Toward Cultural?Historical Theory. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . > > . . . . . . 107 > > 9 The Instrumental Method. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . > > . . . . . . . . . 115 > > 10 Concepts and the Systemic Approach . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > > . . . . . . 129 > > 11 The Anomalous Development of the Child . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > > . . . . 155 > > 12 From the EDI Clinic . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . > > . . . . . . . . . . . . 177 > > 13 Spinoza and the Problem of Higher Emotions . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > > . . . 209 > > 14 Observing Asya . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 237 > > 15 The Study of Consciousness . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > > . . . . . . . . . . 243 > > 16 From Sign to Meaning and Sense . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > > . . . . . . . 251 > > 17 The Problem of Consciousness . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > > . . . . . . . . . 271 > > 18 The Semic Method . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > > . . . . . . . . . . . . 291 > > 19 The Result of Many Years of Work. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . > > . . . . . . 311 > > 20 Disintegration and Schizophrenia. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . > > . . . . . . . . 319 > > 21 Thinking and Speech. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > > . . . . . . . . . . . . 353 > > 22 Psychology as a Science . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . > > . . . . . . . . . . . 367 > > 23 Dubious Moves . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . > > . . . . . . . . . . . . . 383 > > 24 The Conference of October 27?29, 1933 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . > > . . . . . 391 > > 25 The Semantic Field: Sparring with Lewin. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > > . . . . . 403 > > 26 Neuropsychology . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . > > . . . . . . . . . . . . . 419 > > 27 Difficult Children. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . > > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 437 > > 28 The Playing Child . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . > > . . . . . . . . . . . . . 459 > > 29 The Rest is Silence . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . > > . . . . . . . . . . . . . 483 > > Author Index. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 503 > > Subject Index. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . > > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > > Preface > > It is ironic that Lev Vygotsky, who claimed for many years that mental > > development is about the internalization of external signs and that > > external signs must be replaced by inner ones during the course of > > such development, made notes throughout his life. It seems he was > > always making notes on whatever was at hand (e.g., cards, maps, pieces > > of paper, forms) and whatever he was doing (e.g., visiting museums, > > attending lectures, reading books, examining patients). > > Subsequently, > > these notes formed the basis of lectures, articles, and books. This > > book contains a selection of these notes found in Vygotsky?s personal > > archive. They were meticulously studied and deciphered by the first > > editor and, in cases of doubt, by both editors. The second editor > > provided a first translation of the text, and together the editors > > tried to solve the remaining linguistic and conceptual problems. > > Elsewhere one of us has argued that the fact that Vygotsky became > > popular long after his death causes problems for the modern reader > > (Van der Veer 2014, p. 4). We know so little of the psychology of the > > early 20th century that it is easy to attribute ideas to Vygotsky that > > were common at the time or fail to see the novelty of the ideas he > > advanced. In the words of Boring (1950, p. ix): > > ?Without > > such knowledge he [the reader] sees the present in distorted > > perspective, he mistakes old facts and old views for new, and he > > remains unable to evaluate the significance of new movements and > > methods.? This is why the editors have supplied introductions and what > > may seem an excessive number of notes to the text. It is their hope > > that these will allow the reader to at least partially reconstruct the > > historical context of Vygotsky?s ideas. In writing these introductions > > and notes, they relied on the usual encyclopedias (notably, > > Wikipedia), read scores of articles and books by Vygotsky and his > > contemporaries, and were especially pleased with the existence of > > digitalized older books. The editors were also morally supported by > > colleagues and friends (e.g., Tatyana Akhutina, Igor Arievitch, Irina > > Kazakova, Peter Keiler, Alexandre M?traux, Maksim Osipov, Yakov > > Sinichkin, Natal?ya Stoyukhina, Anton Yasnitsky) and felt free to > > bother them with silly or difficult questions. In rare cases, they > > believed they knew something themselves. > > The result > > of this effort is what Vygotsky regarded as typical for the modern > > Western > > person: > > borrowed knowledge, e.g., knowledge that is transmitted from expert to > > novice. > > Few readers have been in the Sahara; yet most of them believe it is a > > hot and sandy place in the daytime. > > Even with the introductions and the footnotes, this volume requires > > some hard work by the reader, and the editors do not claim that they > > fully understand each and every part of the text. After all, a large > > part of this text was written for private use, and arguments were not > > spelled out. Moreover, sometimes is not even clear whether Vygotsky > > gives his own point of view or summarizes the view of a colleague. > > Hopefully, discussions of this volume in the scientific press and on > > the Internet will help to solve the remaining problems of > > comprehension. > > The publication of private notebooks always involves some > > modifications, and we wish to explain the procedure we followed. > > First, the text was deciphered and typed. This in itself is no easy > > task because Vygotsky?s handwriting was not always clear, and he > > frequently used abbreviations of his own invention (e.g., ?m.r.? for > > ?mental retardation? or ?hndwrtng? for ?handwriting?). One might say > > that his notebooks have several of the properties that Vygotsky > > himself ascribed to inner > > speech: abbreviations, references to things that are only clear to > > someone who has the same knowledge (e.g., ?See my talk?), etc. In > > typing the text of the notebooks, we lost the typical typographical > > features of a manuscript, that is, the underlining, the crossing out, > > the arrows, the writing upside down or backwards, the added remarks in > > the margins, and so on. Rendering these features in the book would > > have made it very unpleasant to read, but in the comments we have > > indicated what readers cannot see for themselves. In addition, we have > > corrected the mistakes in foreign words, expressions, citations, and > > names. Although Vygotsky read several languages, his active use of > > them left much to be desired. Words underlined by Vygotsky, book and > > journal titles, poetry lines, and foreign words are rendered in > > italics. In the rare cases that Vygotsky himself used English words or > > expressions, these are given in bold script. Punctuation has been > > mostly left intact?unless this made the understanding difficult?and we > > added quotation marks when Vygotsky was citing a poet or writer > > verbatim. Vygotsky was in the habit of repeatedly writing up the > > outlines of the same talk or chapter and had a stock of pet > > expressions and ideas to which he came back time and again, as the > > reader will see in the present edition. For this reason, in rare > > cases, we left out part of the text when it became excessively > > repetitive. These suppressed passages have been indicated with angle > > brackets and ellipses. Insertions and comments by the editors are > > given in square brackets (i.e., [ ]) and/or small script. Words that > > were difficult or impossible to decipher are given in angle brackets > > (i.e., < >) with either our best guess or the word ?illegible.? > > Finally, this book was edited by two authors who have never met each > > other and communicated solely through email. There is no doubt that > > this caused some disadvantages? e.g., written speech needs to be much > > more elaborate than oral speech ?and it is better not to speculate > > about the possible advantages. However, we sincerely believe that the > > present result once more shows the truth of Feuerbach?s dictum, that > > what is impossible for one person is possible for two. > > Moscow, Russia ?katerina Zavershneva > > Leiden, The Netherlands Ren? van der Veer References Boring, E. G. > > (1950). A history of experimental psychology. Englewood Cliffs, NJ: > > Prentice Hall. > > Van der Veer, R. (2014). Lev Vygotsky. London: Bloomsbury. > > > > > From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Mon Feb 12 00:31:41 2018 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2018 08:31:41 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: new book of possible interest to Vygotskian people In-Reply-To: References: <1518302475278.80266@iped.uio.no>, Message-ID: <1518424301072.80406@iped.uio.no> WOw, with just one click! Thanks for sharing! Alfredo ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of mike cole Sent: 11 February 2018 18:12 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: new book of possible interest to Vygotskian people Peter, Alfredo, et al --- The following url for the Vygotsky notebooks book was posted on Facebook. https://yadi.sk/i/n7B3gak-3SCVMd Publishing appears another institution of modernity that is melting away. mike On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 2:41 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > I had been waiting for this book to come out; but I was not aware of the > price, and how privileged we who have access to most Springer publications > through institutional (university, etc) affiliation are. > Alfredo > ________________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Peter Smagorinsky > Sent: 10 February 2018 20:39 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: new book of possible interest to Vygotskian people > > I got this info from Rene, who was alarmed at the price. For those who > just hit the lottery: $379.00 USD > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole > Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 2:35 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: new book of possible interest to Vygotskian people > > It sure looks interesting, but you neglected to tell us the price, Peter. > mike > > On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 11:31 AM, Peter Smagorinsky wrote: > > > > > Vygotsky??s Notebooks: A Selection > > ??katerina Zavershneva, Rene van der Veer, Editors Springer, 2018 > > > > Contents > > 1 A Tragicomedy of Strivings . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . > > . . . . . . . . . 1 > > 2 Jewry and World History . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > > . . . . . . . . . . 11 > > 3 The Book of Fragments . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > > . . . . . . . . . . 21 > > 4 The Jewish Question . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > > . . . . . . . . . . . . 41 > > 5 Genres of Writing . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > > . . . . . . . . . . . . . 51 > > 6 The Trip to London . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . > > . . . . . . . . . . . 57 > > 7 From the Zakharino Hospital. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . > > . . . . . . . . 71 > > 8 Toward Cultural?CHistorical Theory. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . > > . . . . . . 107 > > 9 The Instrumental Method. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . > > . . . . . . . . . 115 > > 10 Concepts and the Systemic Approach . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > > . . . . . . 129 > > 11 The Anomalous Development of the Child . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > > . . . . 155 > > 12 From the EDI Clinic . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . > > . . . . . . . . . . . . 177 > > 13 Spinoza and the Problem of Higher Emotions . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > > . . . 209 > > 14 Observing Asya . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 237 > > 15 The Study of Consciousness . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > > . . . . . . . . . . 243 > > 16 From Sign to Meaning and Sense . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > > . . . . . . . 251 > > 17 The Problem of Consciousness . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > > . . . . . . . . . 271 > > 18 The Semic Method . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > > . . . . . . . . . . . . 291 > > 19 The Result of Many Years of Work. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . > > . . . . . . 311 > > 20 Disintegration and Schizophrenia. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . > > . . . . . . . . 319 > > 21 Thinking and Speech. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > > . . . . . . . . . . . . 353 > > 22 Psychology as a Science . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . > > . . . . . . . . . . . 367 > > 23 Dubious Moves . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . > > . . . . . . . . . . . . . 383 > > 24 The Conference of October 27?C29, 1933 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . > > . . . . . 391 > > 25 The Semantic Field: Sparring with Lewin. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > > . . . . . 403 > > 26 Neuropsychology . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . > > . . . . . . . . . . . . . 419 > > 27 Difficult Children. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . > > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 437 > > 28 The Playing Child . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . > > . . . . . . . . . . . . . 459 > > 29 The Rest is Silence . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . > > . . . . . . . . . . . . . 483 > > Author Index. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 503 > > Subject Index. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . > > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > > Preface > > It is ironic that Lev Vygotsky, who claimed for many years that mental > > development is about the internalization of external signs and that > > external signs must be replaced by inner ones during the course of > > such development, made notes throughout his life. It seems he was > > always making notes on whatever was at hand (e.g., cards, maps, pieces > > of paper, forms) and whatever he was doing (e.g., visiting museums, > > attending lectures, reading books, examining patients). > > Subsequently, > > these notes formed the basis of lectures, articles, and books. This > > book contains a selection of these notes found in Vygotsky??s personal > > archive. They were meticulously studied and deciphered by the first > > editor and, in cases of doubt, by both editors. The second editor > > provided a first translation of the text, and together the editors > > tried to solve the remaining linguistic and conceptual problems. > > Elsewhere one of us has argued that the fact that Vygotsky became > > popular long after his death causes problems for the modern reader > > (Van der Veer 2014, p. 4). We know so little of the psychology of the > > early 20th century that it is easy to attribute ideas to Vygotsky that > > were common at the time or fail to see the novelty of the ideas he > > advanced. In the words of Boring (1950, p. ix): > > ??Without > > such knowledge he [the reader] sees the present in distorted > > perspective, he mistakes old facts and old views for new, and he > > remains unable to evaluate the significance of new movements and > > methods.?? This is why the editors have supplied introductions and what > > may seem an excessive number of notes to the text. It is their hope > > that these will allow the reader to at least partially reconstruct the > > historical context of Vygotsky??s ideas. In writing these introductions > > and notes, they relied on the usual encyclopedias (notably, > > Wikipedia), read scores of articles and books by Vygotsky and his > > contemporaries, and were especially pleased with the existence of > > digitalized older books. The editors were also morally supported by > > colleagues and friends (e.g., Tatyana Akhutina, Igor Arievitch, Irina > > Kazakova, Peter Keiler, Alexandre M??traux, Maksim Osipov, Yakov > > Sinichkin, Natal??ya Stoyukhina, Anton Yasnitsky) and felt free to > > bother them with silly or difficult questions. In rare cases, they > > believed they knew something themselves. > > The result > > of this effort is what Vygotsky regarded as typical for the modern > > Western > > person: > > borrowed knowledge, e.g., knowledge that is transmitted from expert to > > novice. > > Few readers have been in the Sahara; yet most of them believe it is a > > hot and sandy place in the daytime. > > Even with the introductions and the footnotes, this volume requires > > some hard work by the reader, and the editors do not claim that they > > fully understand each and every part of the text. After all, a large > > part of this text was written for private use, and arguments were not > > spelled out. Moreover, sometimes is not even clear whether Vygotsky > > gives his own point of view or summarizes the view of a colleague. > > Hopefully, discussions of this volume in the scientific press and on > > the Internet will help to solve the remaining problems of > > comprehension. > > The publication of private notebooks always involves some > > modifications, and we wish to explain the procedure we followed. > > First, the text was deciphered and typed. This in itself is no easy > > task because Vygotsky??s handwriting was not always clear, and he > > frequently used abbreviations of his own invention (e.g., ??m.r.?? for > > ??mental retardation?? or ??hndwrtng?? for ??handwriting??). One might say > > that his notebooks have several of the properties that Vygotsky > > himself ascribed to inner > > speech: abbreviations, references to things that are only clear to > > someone who has the same knowledge (e.g., ??See my talk??), etc. In > > typing the text of the notebooks, we lost the typical typographical > > features of a manuscript, that is, the underlining, the crossing out, > > the arrows, the writing upside down or backwards, the added remarks in > > the margins, and so on. Rendering these features in the book would > > have made it very unpleasant to read, but in the comments we have > > indicated what readers cannot see for themselves. In addition, we have > > corrected the mistakes in foreign words, expressions, citations, and > > names. Although Vygotsky read several languages, his active use of > > them left much to be desired. Words underlined by Vygotsky, book and > > journal titles, poetry lines, and foreign words are rendered in > > italics. In the rare cases that Vygotsky himself used English words or > > expressions, these are given in bold script. Punctuation has been > > mostly left intact??unless this made the understanding difficult??and we > > added quotation marks when Vygotsky was citing a poet or writer > > verbatim. Vygotsky was in the habit of repeatedly writing up the > > outlines of the same talk or chapter and had a stock of pet > > expressions and ideas to which he came back time and again, as the > > reader will see in the present edition. For this reason, in rare > > cases, we left out part of the text when it became excessively > > repetitive. These suppressed passages have been indicated with angle > > brackets and ellipses. Insertions and comments by the editors are > > given in square brackets (i.e., [ ]) and/or small script. Words that > > were difficult or impossible to decipher are given in angle brackets > > (i.e., < >) with either our best guess or the word ??illegible.?? > > Finally, this book was edited by two authors who have never met each > > other and communicated solely through email. There is no doubt that > > this caused some disadvantages?? e.g., written speech needs to be much > > more elaborate than oral speech ??and it is better not to speculate > > about the possible advantages. However, we sincerely believe that the > > present result once more shows the truth of Feuerbach??s dictum, that > > what is impossible for one person is possible for two. > > Moscow, Russia ??katerina Zavershneva > > Leiden, The Netherlands Ren?? van der Veer References Boring, E. G. > > (1950). A history of experimental psychology. Englewood Cliffs, NJ: > > Prentice Hall. > > Van der Veer, R. (2014). Lev Vygotsky. London: Bloomsbury. > > > > > From helenaworthen@gmail.com Wed Feb 14 11:34:29 2018 From: helenaworthen@gmail.com (Helena Worthen) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2018 11:34:29 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: new book of possible interest to Vygotskian people In-Reply-To: References: <1518302475278.80266@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: <3D0B7354-ECEF-4AAE-8A05-BFFB1B746069@gmail.com> This is amazing!!! Thank you ? Helena Worthen helenaworthen@gmail.com Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 Blog US/ Viet Nam: helenaworthen.wordpress.com skype: helena.worthen1 > On Feb 11, 2018, at 9:12 AM, mike cole wrote: > > Peter, Alfredo, et al --- > > The following url for the Vygotsky notebooks book was posted on Facebook. > > https://yadi.sk/i/n7B3gak-3SCVMd > > Publishing appears another institution of modernity that is melting away. > > mike > > > On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 2:41 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > wrote: > >> I had been waiting for this book to come out; but I was not aware of the >> price, and how privileged we who have access to most Springer publications >> through institutional (university, etc) affiliation are. >> Alfredo >> ________________________________________ >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> on behalf of Peter Smagorinsky >> Sent: 10 February 2018 20:39 >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: new book of possible interest to Vygotskian people >> >> I got this info from Rene, who was alarmed at the price. For those who >> just hit the lottery: $379.00 USD >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole >> Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 2:35 PM >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: new book of possible interest to Vygotskian people >> >> It sure looks interesting, but you neglected to tell us the price, Peter. >> mike >> >> On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 11:31 AM, Peter Smagorinsky wrote: >> >>> >>> Vygotsky?s Notebooks: A Selection >>> ?katerina Zavershneva, Rene van der Veer, Editors Springer, 2018 >>> >>> Contents >>> 1 A Tragicomedy of Strivings . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . >> . >>> . . . . . . . . . 1 >>> 2 Jewry and World History . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . >>> . . . . . . . . . . 11 >>> 3 The Book of Fragments . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . >>> . . . . . . . . . . 21 >>> 4 The Jewish Question . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . >>> . . . . . . . . . . . . 41 >>> 5 Genres of Writing . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . >>> . . . . . . . . . . . . . 51 >>> 6 The Trip to London . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . >> . >>> . . . . . . . . . . . 57 >>> 7 From the Zakharino Hospital. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . >> . >>> . . . . . . . . 71 >>> 8 Toward Cultural?Historical Theory. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . >> . >>> . . . . . . 107 >>> 9 The Instrumental Method. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . >> . >>> . . . . . . . . . 115 >>> 10 Concepts and the Systemic Approach . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . >>> . . . . . . 129 >>> 11 The Anomalous Development of the Child . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . >>> . . . . 155 >>> 12 From the EDI Clinic . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . >> . >>> . . . . . . . . . . . . 177 >>> 13 Spinoza and the Problem of Higher Emotions . . . . . . . . . . . . . . >>> . . . 209 >>> 14 Observing Asya . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . >>> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 237 >>> 15 The Study of Consciousness . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . >>> . . . . . . . . . . 243 >>> 16 From Sign to Meaning and Sense . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . >>> . . . . . . . 251 >>> 17 The Problem of Consciousness . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . >>> . . . . . . . . . 271 >>> 18 The Semic Method . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . >>> . . . . . . . . . . . . 291 >>> 19 The Result of Many Years of Work. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . >> . >>> . . . . . . 311 >>> 20 Disintegration and Schizophrenia. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . >> . >>> . . . . . . . . 319 >>> 21 Thinking and Speech. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . >>> . . . . . . . . . . . . 353 >>> 22 Psychology as a Science . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . >> . >>> . . . . . . . . . . . 367 >>> 23 Dubious Moves . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . >> . >>> . . . . . . . . . . . . . 383 >>> 24 The Conference of October 27?29, 1933 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . >> . >>> . . . . . 391 >>> 25 The Semantic Field: Sparring with Lewin. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . >>> . . . . . 403 >>> 26 Neuropsychology . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . >> . >>> . . . . . . . . . . . . . 419 >>> 27 Difficult Children. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . >> . >>> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 437 >>> 28 The Playing Child . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . >> . >>> . . . . . . . . . . . . . 459 >>> 29 The Rest is Silence . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . >> . >>> . . . . . . . . . . . . . 483 >>> Author Index. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . >>> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 503 >>> Subject Index. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . >> . >>> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . >>> Preface >>> It is ironic that Lev Vygotsky, who claimed for many years that mental >>> development is about the internalization of external signs and that >>> external signs must be replaced by inner ones during the course of >>> such development, made notes throughout his life. It seems he was >>> always making notes on whatever was at hand (e.g., cards, maps, pieces >>> of paper, forms) and whatever he was doing (e.g., visiting museums, >>> attending lectures, reading books, examining patients). >>> Subsequently, >>> these notes formed the basis of lectures, articles, and books. This >>> book contains a selection of these notes found in Vygotsky?s personal >>> archive. They were meticulously studied and deciphered by the first >>> editor and, in cases of doubt, by both editors. The second editor >>> provided a first translation of the text, and together the editors >>> tried to solve the remaining linguistic and conceptual problems. >>> Elsewhere one of us has argued that the fact that Vygotsky became >>> popular long after his death causes problems for the modern reader >>> (Van der Veer 2014, p. 4). We know so little of the psychology of the >>> early 20th century that it is easy to attribute ideas to Vygotsky that >>> were common at the time or fail to see the novelty of the ideas he >>> advanced. In the words of Boring (1950, p. ix): >>> ?Without >>> such knowledge he [the reader] sees the present in distorted >>> perspective, he mistakes old facts and old views for new, and he >>> remains unable to evaluate the significance of new movements and >>> methods.? This is why the editors have supplied introductions and what >>> may seem an excessive number of notes to the text. It is their hope >>> that these will allow the reader to at least partially reconstruct the >>> historical context of Vygotsky?s ideas. In writing these introductions >>> and notes, they relied on the usual encyclopedias (notably, >>> Wikipedia), read scores of articles and books by Vygotsky and his >>> contemporaries, and were especially pleased with the existence of >>> digitalized older books. The editors were also morally supported by >>> colleagues and friends (e.g., Tatyana Akhutina, Igor Arievitch, Irina >>> Kazakova, Peter Keiler, Alexandre M?traux, Maksim Osipov, Yakov >>> Sinichkin, Natal?ya Stoyukhina, Anton Yasnitsky) and felt free to >>> bother them with silly or difficult questions. In rare cases, they >>> believed they knew something themselves. >>> The result >>> of this effort is what Vygotsky regarded as typical for the modern >>> Western >>> person: >>> borrowed knowledge, e.g., knowledge that is transmitted from expert to >>> novice. >>> Few readers have been in the Sahara; yet most of them believe it is a >>> hot and sandy place in the daytime. >>> Even with the introductions and the footnotes, this volume requires >>> some hard work by the reader, and the editors do not claim that they >>> fully understand each and every part of the text. After all, a large >>> part of this text was written for private use, and arguments were not >>> spelled out. Moreover, sometimes is not even clear whether Vygotsky >>> gives his own point of view or summarizes the view of a colleague. >>> Hopefully, discussions of this volume in the scientific press and on >>> the Internet will help to solve the remaining problems of >>> comprehension. >>> The publication of private notebooks always involves some >>> modifications, and we wish to explain the procedure we followed. >>> First, the text was deciphered and typed. This in itself is no easy >>> task because Vygotsky?s handwriting was not always clear, and he >>> frequently used abbreviations of his own invention (e.g., ?m.r.? for >>> ?mental retardation? or ?hndwrtng? for ?handwriting?). One might say >>> that his notebooks have several of the properties that Vygotsky >>> himself ascribed to inner >>> speech: abbreviations, references to things that are only clear to >>> someone who has the same knowledge (e.g., ?See my talk?), etc. In >>> typing the text of the notebooks, we lost the typical typographical >>> features of a manuscript, that is, the underlining, the crossing out, >>> the arrows, the writing upside down or backwards, the added remarks in >>> the margins, and so on. Rendering these features in the book would >>> have made it very unpleasant to read, but in the comments we have >>> indicated what readers cannot see for themselves. In addition, we have >>> corrected the mistakes in foreign words, expressions, citations, and >>> names. Although Vygotsky read several languages, his active use of >>> them left much to be desired. Words underlined by Vygotsky, book and >>> journal titles, poetry lines, and foreign words are rendered in >>> italics. In the rare cases that Vygotsky himself used English words or >>> expressions, these are given in bold script. Punctuation has been >>> mostly left intact?unless this made the understanding difficult?and we >>> added quotation marks when Vygotsky was citing a poet or writer >>> verbatim. Vygotsky was in the habit of repeatedly writing up the >>> outlines of the same talk or chapter and had a stock of pet >>> expressions and ideas to which he came back time and again, as the >>> reader will see in the present edition. For this reason, in rare >>> cases, we left out part of the text when it became excessively >>> repetitive. These suppressed passages have been indicated with angle >>> brackets and ellipses. Insertions and comments by the editors are >>> given in square brackets (i.e., [ ]) and/or small script. Words that >>> were difficult or impossible to decipher are given in angle brackets >>> (i.e., < >) with either our best guess or the word ?illegible.? >>> Finally, this book was edited by two authors who have never met each >>> other and communicated solely through email. There is no doubt that >>> this caused some disadvantages? e.g., written speech needs to be much >>> more elaborate than oral speech ?and it is better not to speculate >>> about the possible advantages. However, we sincerely believe that the >>> present result once more shows the truth of Feuerbach?s dictum, that >>> what is impossible for one person is possible for two. >>> Moscow, Russia ?katerina Zavershneva >>> Leiden, The Netherlands Ren? van der Veer References Boring, E. G. >>> (1950). A history of experimental psychology. Englewood Cliffs, NJ: >>> Prentice Hall. >>> Van der Veer, R. (2014). Lev Vygotsky. London: Bloomsbury. >>> >> >> >> From dkellogg60@gmail.com Sat Feb 17 07:32:23 2018 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2018 00:32:23 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] That on That Message-ID: Consider the following sentence, which was, according to the recent indictment, sent by a Russian agent posing as an American citizen to the Republican presidential campaign in 2016. "We gained a huge lot of followers and decided to somehow help Mr. Trump get elected." Of course, many American citizens write like this. But even staunch Trump supporters would find the word order oddly un-American sounding in at least two places, the noun group "a huge lot" and the verb group"decided to somehow help". And they would be right. But why? The answer is that elements in a noun or a verb group in English have a certain functional order. We sometimes teach this in very complicated ways, e.g. "size, color, age, material, function" to explain "big brown leather handbag". But describing the problem is too example-driven: it lacks the generality and generative power of theory: for example, it doesn't account for quantifiers like "many", "few", "a lot of" or for deictics like "this", "that", "these", "those", and "the", and it can't explain why things have that order in English. It also won't explain our verb group: it won't tell us why "to somehow help Mr. Trump get elected" somehow sounds more foreign than "to boldly go where no man has gone before". Finally, it won't tell us anything about how this order develops in children: what they learn first and what they learn next. Vygotsky will explain all this, with a little help from Halliday. In Chapter Five of Thinking and Speech, he argues that children learn syncretic "heaps" first ("That on that"). There are three kinds of these (purely syncretic, spatial, and two-stage) but what they all have in common is that they are "deictic"--the main purpose is "that on that". Then come a variety of complexes, which include the concrete, objective, "factual" properties: number, size, shape, etc. Only then do we find concepts, and these too come in two different varieties: everyday and academic. The everyday are distinguished by modifiers at the same level of generality as the concept (e.g. "leather handbag"), and the academic are distinguished by conceptual hiearchies that involve different levels of generality (e.g. "a type of personal accessory"). In Halliday's Introduction to Functional Grammar, we learn that groups are just like clauses. They start with a Theme (an element which is speaker oriented, the "point of departure" of the speaker) and they end with a Rheme (an element which is hearer oriented, the place where the speaker comes in). Like clauses, groups tend to go from me to you, from old to new, from deictic words to defining ones.That's why we start a noun group with "a", "the", or "some". That's why we continue it with numbers, and then with descriptors (which go from speaker-oriented-subjective to hearer-oriented-objective), and that's why scientific "classifiers" come after judgmental epithets. "A huge lot" is functionally misordered, because it starts with a deictic but then puts in a descriptive before the numerative (like "little three pigs" or "black four and twenty birds baked into a pie"). With verb groups, the modifiers can go before or after the verb, but not in the middle: "somehow to help" or "to help somehow". But if we say "to somehow help" it really appears that "somehow" is part of the meaning of the verb itself (as in "to boldly go") and not the means of the action. Halliday explains how they are ordered. But Vygotsky explains why. David Kellogg Recent Article in *Mind, Culture, and Activity* 24 (4) 'Metaphoric, Metonymic, Eclectic, or Dialectic? A Commentary on ?Neoformation: A Dialectical Approach to Developmental Change?' Free e-print available (for a short time only) at http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/YAWPBtmPM8knMCNg6sS6/full From mcole@ucsd.edu Sat Feb 17 10:26:45 2018 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2018 10:26:45 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: [commfac] Announcement: COMM Lecturer Academic Year 2018 -2019 - application information In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: a temp job in droughtland, but fun courses of the right person. mike ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Ekaete Udoh Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2018 at 10:51 AM Subject: [commfac] Announcement: COMM Lecturer Academic Year 2018 -2019 - application information To: communication@ucsd.edu, CommFac , commlecturer-g@ucsd.edu Open Recruitment for Lecturers The Communication Department (http://communication.ucsd.edu/) within the Division of Social Sciences at the University of California, San Diego, is seeking to make appointments at the Lecturer Academic Year (Unit 18-Non-Senate Faculty) level for the Communication major. The application # JPF01685 may be found at: https://apol-recruit.ucsd.edu/apply/JPF01685. Prospective applicants should refer to the list of proposed courses *here * when submitting an application. Applications will be considered after the following deadlines: ? March 19 for Fall, Winter and/or Spring quarters; ? September 24 for Winter and/or Spring quarters and ? January 21 for Spring quarter only. Please note, current lecturers are required to reapply annually. Please be advised that the link is not live until Monday February 19th. Best Ekaete Udoh -- Ekaete E. Udoh, M.A. Undergraduate Intake Advisor University of California, San Diego Communication Department, MC 124C 9500 Gilman Drive La Jolla, CA 92093 (858) 822-0016 http://communication.ucsd.edu/ From mcole@ucsd.edu Sat Feb 17 11:18:14 2018 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2018 11:18:14 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: That on That In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Lots of interesting thoughts in your emails, David. "Essays on a Hallidayan Pedology" perhaps? Have your read the Vygotsky notebooks? They must contain endless topics for discussion. mike On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 7:32 AM, David Kellogg wrote: > Consider the following sentence, which was, according to the recent > indictment, sent by a Russian agent posing as an American citizen to the > Republican presidential campaign in 2016. > > "We gained a huge lot of followers and decided to somehow help Mr. Trump > get elected." > > Of course, many American citizens write like this. But even staunch Trump > supporters would find the word order oddly un-American sounding in at least > two places, the noun group "a huge lot" and the verb group"decided to > somehow help". And they would be right. But why? > > The answer is that elements in a noun or a verb group in English have a > certain functional order. We sometimes teach this in very complicated ways, > e.g. "size, color, age, material, function" to explain "big brown leather > handbag". But describing the problem is too example-driven: it lacks the > generality and generative power of theory: for example, it doesn't account > for quantifiers like "many", "few", "a lot of" or for deictics like "this", > "that", "these", "those", and "the", and it can't explain why things have > that order in English. It also won't explain our verb group: it won't tell > us why "to somehow help Mr. Trump get elected" somehow sounds more foreign > than "to boldly go where no man has gone before". Finally, it won't tell us > anything about how this order develops in children: what they learn first > and what they learn next. > > Vygotsky will explain all this, with a little help from Halliday. In > Chapter Five of Thinking and Speech, he argues that children learn > syncretic "heaps" first ("That on that"). There are three kinds of these > (purely syncretic, spatial, and two-stage) but what they all have in common > is that they are "deictic"--the main purpose is "that on that". Then come a > variety of complexes, which include the concrete, objective, "factual" > properties: number, size, shape, etc. Only then do we find concepts, and > these too come in two different varieties: everyday and academic. The > everyday are distinguished by modifiers at the same level of generality as > the concept (e.g. "leather handbag"), and the academic are distinguished by > conceptual hiearchies that involve different levels of generality (e.g. "a > type of personal accessory"). > > In Halliday's Introduction to Functional Grammar, we learn that groups are > just like clauses. They start with a Theme (an element which is speaker > oriented, the "point of departure" of the speaker) and they end with a > Rheme (an element which is hearer oriented, the place where the speaker > comes in). Like clauses, groups tend to go from me to you, from old to new, > from deictic words to defining ones.That's why we start a noun group with > "a", "the", or "some". That's why we continue it with numbers, and then > with descriptors (which go from speaker-oriented-subjective to > hearer-oriented-objective), and that's why scientific "classifiers" come > after judgmental epithets. "A huge lot" is functionally misordered, because > it starts with a deictic but then puts in a descriptive before the > numerative (like "little three pigs" or "black four and twenty birds baked > into a pie"). With verb groups, the modifiers can go before or after the > verb, but not in the middle: "somehow to help" or "to help somehow". But if > we say "to somehow help" it really appears that "somehow" is part of the > meaning of the verb itself (as in "to boldly go") and not the means of the > action. > > Halliday explains how they are ordered. But Vygotsky explains why. > > David Kellogg > > Recent Article in *Mind, Culture, and Activity* 24 (4) 'Metaphoric, > Metonymic, Eclectic, or Dialectic? A Commentary on ?Neoformation: A > Dialectical Approach to Developmental Change?' > > Free e-print available (for a short time only) at > > http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/YAWPBtmPM8knMCNg6sS6/full > From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Sat Feb 17 15:45:29 2018 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2018 23:45:29 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] (non)grieving scholarship Message-ID: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> I have not been able to contribute to this list as much as I'd like to lately, among other things, because I need to find a job, and I need to make sure that I have checked all those boxes that selection committees will check (enough first-authored publications? in good enough journals? enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? acquiring funds? more than all others candidates? and more than favoured-for-whatever-other-reasons candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these weeks to fill up a competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. And, although I did not think that it was particularly well written, it was both relieving and discouraging to read this article (see link below, which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague who I think also subscribes this list). The article makes visible the pain scholars go through when, after so many years of digging and digging and digging a little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to leave it and find some other thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer who was moving through the world with his lovely family, short-term project after short-term project, getting better and better at what he worked on (apparently he was among the few who had expertise in computer modeling simulating some astronomic events) , and finally having to step out academia last year to find something else to do, for his family no longer could stand the constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be me soon. And that may not be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the story seems to be quite endemic to academia and may be interesting to some of you: https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Loses-When/242560 Alfredo From wagner.schmit@gmail.com Sat Feb 17 16:07:20 2018 From: wagner.schmit@gmail.com (Wagner Luiz Schmit) Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2018 22:07:20 -0200 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In-Reply-To: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: This just hit me in the spot... Wagner On Feb 17, 2018 9:48 PM, "Alfredo Jornet Gil" wrote: > I have not been able to contribute to this list as much as I'd like to > lately, among other things, because I need to find a job, and I need to > make sure that I have checked all those boxes that selection committees > will check (enough first-authored publications? in good enough journals? > enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? acquiring funds? more > than all others candidates? and more than favoured-for-whatever-other-reasons > candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these weeks to fill up a > competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. > > > And, although I did not think that it was particularly well written, it > was both relieving and discouraging to read this article (see link below, > which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague who I think also > subscribes this list). The article makes visible the pain scholars go > through when, after so many years of digging and digging and digging a > little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to leave it and find some other > thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer who was moving through > the world with his lovely family, short-term project after short-term > project, getting better and better at what he worked on (apparently he was > among the few who had expertise in computer modeling simulating some > astronomic events) , and finally having to step out academia last year to > find something else to do, for his family no longer could stand the > constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be me soon. And that may not > be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the story seems to be quite > endemic to academia and may be interesting to some of you: > > > https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Loses-When/242560 > > Alfredo > > > From wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com Sat Feb 17 16:21:48 2018 From: wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com (Wolff-Michael Roth) Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2018 16:21:48 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In-Reply-To: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: Alfredo, the article is interesting, and so is your story. As it is with all jobs, in any one field there are only so many in academia. And sometimes, even if we have one, it may be better to leave---you remember I told you the story of how at one "Big 10" U.S. university, I was told that I wasn't smart enough to make tenure. So rather than hanging around and trying, I returned to teach at the high school level and directed a science department, something I knew I was good at (as told by previous principals and superintendents). When I left, I swore never to return. And yet, after a few years, and doing research on learning in my own classrooms to improve opportunities for the students in my care, I had turned things around----and when I did decide to return to academia, I have had a wonderful career, ultimately picking up a job that provided me with a lot of freedom. I was LUCKY to get it because those who were ahead in the listing also wanted spousal hire, and my university wasn't ready for it. When it was my turn, I happily took the job. Academia is not all there is. There are lots of other jobs where good people with PhD (like you) work and are happy. I think in Germany, there are lots of PhDs working in the media or industry (like my MA physics colleagues, some of whom went on to get PhDs). When I left the "Big 10" university, I never looked back; and I never wept, even though only a year earlier it had looked like a dream job. And many have dreams that they never achieve: look at all the artists, the musicians and the likes who never make as much as a teacher, a decent income for a decent living. There are many dreaming of a medal in the olympics, and never get selected into their national teams.... Examples are galore. Perhaps there are not enough mentors. And sometimes mentors may not have the appropriate advice, because what they might tell you is not workable for you. I wish you all the best to fall into a position where a hiring committee will find you to be the best fit, and where you find that the place is the best fit for you. I wish that to everyone on the list who is in your position. Michael On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 3:45 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > I have not been able to contribute to this list as much as I'd like to > lately, among other things, because I need to find a job, and I need to > make sure that I have checked all those boxes that selection committees > will check (enough first-authored publications? in good enough journals? > enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? acquiring funds? more > than all others candidates? and more than favoured-for-whatever-other-reasons > candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these weeks to fill up a > competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. > > > And, although I did not think that it was particularly well written, it > was both relieving and discouraging to read this article (see link below, > which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague who I think also > subscribes this list). The article makes visible the pain scholars go > through when, after so many years of digging and digging and digging a > little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to leave it and find some other > thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer who was moving through > the world with his lovely family, short-term project after short-term > project, getting better and better at what he worked on (apparently he was > among the few who had expertise in computer modeling simulating some > astronomic events) , and finally having to step out academia last year to > find something else to do, for his family no longer could stand the > constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be me soon. And that may not > be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the story seems to be quite > endemic to academia and may be interesting to some of you: > > > https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Loses-When/242560 > > Alfredo > > > From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Sat Feb 17 16:21:22 2018 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2018 00:21:22 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: That on That In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: <1518913283332.619@iped.uio.no> I always appreciate David's fascination with the way history, language, and psyche intertwine, which really is a Vygotskian concern. As for the book, and as far as I know, Mike, Beth is already moving things to get that book reviewed. I have been reading here and there, and there is clearly a challenge in presenting a myriad of single notes?as compared to a manuscript that had at least to some extent been composed by the author. The authors do a huge job in putting the notes together by topics, but yet it requires a lot of back and forth reading to catch up with Vygotsky's meandering and developing ideas. So endless topics for endless readings indeed! Alfredo ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of mike cole Sent: 17 February 2018 20:18 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: That on That Lots of interesting thoughts in your emails, David. "Essays on a Hallidayan Pedology" perhaps? Have your read the Vygotsky notebooks? They must contain endless topics for discussion. mike On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 7:32 AM, David Kellogg wrote: > Consider the following sentence, which was, according to the recent > indictment, sent by a Russian agent posing as an American citizen to the > Republican presidential campaign in 2016. > > "We gained a huge lot of followers and decided to somehow help Mr. Trump > get elected." > > Of course, many American citizens write like this. But even staunch Trump > supporters would find the word order oddly un-American sounding in at least > two places, the noun group "a huge lot" and the verb group"decided to > somehow help". And they would be right. But why? > > The answer is that elements in a noun or a verb group in English have a > certain functional order. We sometimes teach this in very complicated ways, > e.g. "size, color, age, material, function" to explain "big brown leather > handbag". But describing the problem is too example-driven: it lacks the > generality and generative power of theory: for example, it doesn't account > for quantifiers like "many", "few", "a lot of" or for deictics like "this", > "that", "these", "those", and "the", and it can't explain why things have > that order in English. It also won't explain our verb group: it won't tell > us why "to somehow help Mr. Trump get elected" somehow sounds more foreign > than "to boldly go where no man has gone before". Finally, it won't tell us > anything about how this order develops in children: what they learn first > and what they learn next. > > Vygotsky will explain all this, with a little help from Halliday. In > Chapter Five of Thinking and Speech, he argues that children learn > syncretic "heaps" first ("That on that"). There are three kinds of these > (purely syncretic, spatial, and two-stage) but what they all have in common > is that they are "deictic"--the main purpose is "that on that". Then come a > variety of complexes, which include the concrete, objective, "factual" > properties: number, size, shape, etc. Only then do we find concepts, and > these too come in two different varieties: everyday and academic. The > everyday are distinguished by modifiers at the same level of generality as > the concept (e.g. "leather handbag"), and the academic are distinguished by > conceptual hiearchies that involve different levels of generality (e.g. "a > type of personal accessory"). > > In Halliday's Introduction to Functional Grammar, we learn that groups are > just like clauses. They start with a Theme (an element which is speaker > oriented, the "point of departure" of the speaker) and they end with a > Rheme (an element which is hearer oriented, the place where the speaker > comes in). Like clauses, groups tend to go from me to you, from old to new, > from deictic words to defining ones.That's why we start a noun group with > "a", "the", or "some". That's why we continue it with numbers, and then > with descriptors (which go from speaker-oriented-subjective to > hearer-oriented-objective), and that's why scientific "classifiers" come > after judgmental epithets. "A huge lot" is functionally misordered, because > it starts with a deictic but then puts in a descriptive before the > numerative (like "little three pigs" or "black four and twenty birds baked > into a pie"). With verb groups, the modifiers can go before or after the > verb, but not in the middle: "somehow to help" or "to help somehow". But if > we say "to somehow help" it really appears that "somehow" is part of the > meaning of the verb itself (as in "to boldly go") and not the means of the > action. > > Halliday explains how they are ordered. But Vygotsky explains why. > > David Kellogg > > Recent Article in *Mind, Culture, and Activity* 24 (4) 'Metaphoric, > Metonymic, Eclectic, or Dialectic? A Commentary on ?Neoformation: A > Dialectical Approach to Developmental Change?' > > Free e-print available (for a short time only) at > > http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/YAWPBtmPM8knMCNg6sS6/full > From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Sat Feb 17 16:42:24 2018 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2018 00:42:24 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In-Reply-To: References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no>, Message-ID: <1518914544738.91952@iped.uio.no> Thanks a lot, Michael, I really appreciate your words. Yes, there is life outside academia, thankfully! And there are inspiring and motivating success stories like yours, and there are even great examples of authors who have found better careers as independent researchers. And there is indeed something common in the professions that you just mentioned that has to do with cultivating oneself to the extreme, like painters and musicians; not just that you've been doing it for long time (like the men and women who had been working at a factory for many years and suddenly loose their work), but also that you've tried hard to go beyond yourself at it. Yet, I think teaching and researching are different in that the training itself, all the formation one goes through, has a lot to do with a complex institutional arrangement that, without it, all that expertise no longer seems recognisable, that what you do no longer is. I play guitar, and I sometimes regret not to have tried to pursue a career playing guitar. But I still play guitar, and try to get better at it, and can enjoy myself and make others around me enjoy my playing. I can not be, or at least I cannot yet imagine from here, what would I do with all the techniques (like the video-analysis techniques I've cultivated with you) without an affiliation to an institution to which the performing of such analysis, the reporting about them, etc. matters. But yes, if I (or anyone in my position) falls outside academia, there always is somewhere else to go (like your story nicely shows), and you always move with you all you are, even if you don't yet know what that might mean in whatever context you will come to be next (to continue speaking of contexts!). Alfredo ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Wolff-Michael Roth Sent: 18 February 2018 01:21 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship Alfredo, the article is interesting, and so is your story. As it is with all jobs, in any one field there are only so many in academia. And sometimes, even if we have one, it may be better to leave---you remember I told you the story of how at one "Big 10" U.S. university, I was told that I wasn't smart enough to make tenure. So rather than hanging around and trying, I returned to teach at the high school level and directed a science department, something I knew I was good at (as told by previous principals and superintendents). When I left, I swore never to return. And yet, after a few years, and doing research on learning in my own classrooms to improve opportunities for the students in my care, I had turned things around----and when I did decide to return to academia, I have had a wonderful career, ultimately picking up a job that provided me with a lot of freedom. I was LUCKY to get it because those who were ahead in the listing also wanted spousal hire, and my university wasn't ready for it. When it was my turn, I happily took the job. Academia is not all there is. There are lots of other jobs where good people with PhD (like you) work and are happy. I think in Germany, there are lots of PhDs working in the media or industry (like my MA physics colleagues, some of whom went on to get PhDs). When I left the "Big 10" university, I never looked back; and I never wept, even though only a year earlier it had looked like a dream job. And many have dreams that they never achieve: look at all the artists, the musicians and the likes who never make as much as a teacher, a decent income for a decent living. There are many dreaming of a medal in the olympics, and never get selected into their national teams.... Examples are galore. Perhaps there are not enough mentors. And sometimes mentors may not have the appropriate advice, because what they might tell you is not workable for you. I wish you all the best to fall into a position where a hiring committee will find you to be the best fit, and where you find that the place is the best fit for you. I wish that to everyone on the list who is in your position. Michael On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 3:45 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > I have not been able to contribute to this list as much as I'd like to > lately, among other things, because I need to find a job, and I need to > make sure that I have checked all those boxes that selection committees > will check (enough first-authored publications? in good enough journals? > enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? acquiring funds? more > than all others candidates? and more than favoured-for-whatever-other-reasons > candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these weeks to fill up a > competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. > > > And, although I did not think that it was particularly well written, it > was both relieving and discouraging to read this article (see link below, > which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague who I think also > subscribes this list). The article makes visible the pain scholars go > through when, after so many years of digging and digging and digging a > little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to leave it and find some other > thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer who was moving through > the world with his lovely family, short-term project after short-term > project, getting better and better at what he worked on (apparently he was > among the few who had expertise in computer modeling simulating some > astronomic events) , and finally having to step out academia last year to > find something else to do, for his family no longer could stand the > constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be me soon. And that may not > be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the story seems to be quite > endemic to academia and may be interesting to some of you: > > > https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Loses-When/242560 > > Alfredo > > > From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Sat Feb 17 16:49:24 2018 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2018 00:49:24 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In-Reply-To: References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no>, Message-ID: <1518914964416.39650@iped.uio.no> Good luck then, Wagner! A ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit Sent: 18 February 2018 01:07 To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship This just hit me in the spot... Wagner On Feb 17, 2018 9:48 PM, "Alfredo Jornet Gil" wrote: > I have not been able to contribute to this list as much as I'd like to > lately, among other things, because I need to find a job, and I need to > make sure that I have checked all those boxes that selection committees > will check (enough first-authored publications? in good enough journals? > enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? acquiring funds? more > than all others candidates? and more than favoured-for-whatever-other-reasons > candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these weeks to fill up a > competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. > > > And, although I did not think that it was particularly well written, it > was both relieving and discouraging to read this article (see link below, > which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague who I think also > subscribes this list). The article makes visible the pain scholars go > through when, after so many years of digging and digging and digging a > little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to leave it and find some other > thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer who was moving through > the world with his lovely family, short-term project after short-term > project, getting better and better at what he worked on (apparently he was > among the few who had expertise in computer modeling simulating some > astronomic events) , and finally having to step out academia last year to > find something else to do, for his family no longer could stand the > constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be me soon. And that may not > be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the story seems to be quite > endemic to academia and may be interesting to some of you: > > > https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Loses-When/242560 > > Alfredo > > > From mcole@ucsd.edu Sat Feb 17 17:07:04 2018 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2018 17:07:04 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In-Reply-To: <1518914964416.39650@iped.uio.no> References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> <1518914964416.39650@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: Yours is a quandary shared by your generation, Alfredo. Being allowed to teach and conduct research in a quality institution is a great privilege and an increasingly rarer possibility. There are several people on this list who have organized their lives to be independent scholars while staying connected to the core institutions of disciplinary training. It might be nice to hear the variety out there. It appears pretty certain that the situation is going to get worse before/if it gets better. What can the collective experience of xmca come up with that would be useful to the many of you caught in this meat grinder? mike On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > Good luck then, Wagner! > A > ________________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit > Sent: 18 February 2018 01:07 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > This just hit me in the spot... > > Wagner > > On Feb 17, 2018 9:48 PM, "Alfredo Jornet Gil" wrote: > > > I have not been able to contribute to this list as much as I'd like to > > lately, among other things, because I need to find a job, and I need to > > make sure that I have checked all those boxes that selection committees > > will check (enough first-authored publications? in good enough journals? > > enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? acquiring funds? > more > > than all others candidates? and more than favoured-for-whatever-other- > reasons > > candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these weeks to fill up a > > competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. > > > > > > And, although I did not think that it was particularly well written, it > > was both relieving and discouraging to read this article (see link below, > > which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague who I think also > > subscribes this list). The article makes visible the pain scholars go > > through when, after so many years of digging and digging and digging a > > little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to leave it and find some > other > > thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer who was moving through > > the world with his lovely family, short-term project after short-term > > project, getting better and better at what he worked on (apparently he > was > > among the few who had expertise in computer modeling simulating some > > astronomic events) , and finally having to step out academia last year to > > find something else to do, for his family no longer could stand the > > constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be me soon. And that may > not > > be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the story seems to be > quite > > endemic to academia and may be interesting to some of you: > > > > > > https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Loses-When/242560 > > > > Alfredo > > > > > > > > From wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com Sat Feb 17 17:37:46 2018 From: wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com (Wolff-Michael Roth) Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2018 17:37:46 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In-Reply-To: References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> <1518914964416.39650@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: Alfredo, Wagner, and others: one thing I learned---and the same is with publication----is that applications and publications take a certain amount of stick-to-it-ness. When I decided to give academia another try, I had send about 40 applications to institutions in the US where I had done my PhD. Many universities did not even acknowledge receipt, some did, only 1 had me on their intermediate list, but I did not make it onto the short list---even though I had a considerable list of publications and articles, and that as a high school teacher. With articles it is the same, I have had articles where I went through 3 or 4 journals before the right fit was found---in one case, I had a major revision and ultimate publication in the 9th submission, which was the same journal as the first submission that had rejected the virtually identical first paper. So I learned it that it pays of not to give up. But rather than relying only on that one stream of possibilities, open up other possibilities while pursuing your dream. Generate possibilities and take permanent jobs that are not your ultimate dream jobs while continuing to apply for those that seem to fit your ideal (again, grass tends to *appear *greener on the other side of the fence). What you want to avoid is to fall on hardship. Michael On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 5:07 PM, mike cole wrote: > Yours is a quandary shared by your generation, Alfredo. > Being allowed to teach and conduct research in a quality institution is a > great privilege and an > increasingly rarer possibility. > > There are several people on this list who have organized their lives to be > independent scholars > while staying connected to the core institutions of disciplinary training. > It might be nice to hear > the variety out there. > > It appears pretty certain that the situation is going to get worse > before/if it gets better. > > What can the collective experience of xmca come up with that would be > useful to the many > of you caught in this meat grinder? > > mike > > > > On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > wrote: > > > Good luck then, Wagner! > > A > > ________________________________________ > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit > > Sent: 18 February 2018 01:07 > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > This just hit me in the spot... > > > > Wagner > > > > On Feb 17, 2018 9:48 PM, "Alfredo Jornet Gil" > wrote: > > > > > I have not been able to contribute to this list as much as I'd like to > > > lately, among other things, because I need to find a job, and I need to > > > make sure that I have checked all those boxes that selection committees > > > will check (enough first-authored publications? in good enough > journals? > > > enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? acquiring funds? > > more > > > than all others candidates? and more than favoured-for-whatever-other- > > reasons > > > candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these weeks to fill up a > > > competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. > > > > > > > > > And, although I did not think that it was particularly well written, it > > > was both relieving and discouraging to read this article (see link > below, > > > which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague who I think also > > > subscribes this list). The article makes visible the pain scholars go > > > through when, after so many years of digging and digging and digging a > > > little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to leave it and find some > > other > > > thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer who was moving > through > > > the world with his lovely family, short-term project after short-term > > > project, getting better and better at what he worked on (apparently he > > was > > > among the few who had expertise in computer modeling simulating some > > > astronomic events) , and finally having to step out academia last year > to > > > find something else to do, for his family no longer could stand the > > > constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be me soon. And that may > > not > > > be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the story seems to be > > quite > > > endemic to academia and may be interesting to some of you: > > > > > > > > > https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Loses-When/242560 > > > > > > Alfredo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From lsmolucha@hotmail.com Sat Feb 17 21:20:28 2018 From: lsmolucha@hotmail.com (Larry Smolucha) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2018 05:20:28 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In-Reply-To: References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> <1518914964416.39650@iped.uio.no>, Message-ID: Message from Francine Smolucha on a scholar's life with or without academia Alfredo, There are other jobs that pay well (sometimes with tenure and early retirement benefits) - besides professorships at four year colleges and universities. Administrative and support staff positions pay well. And don't overlook community colleges, technical colleges, and public grade schools and high schools. There is also the private sector and government jobs. As a 'low status' community college professor, I managed to translate Vygotsky's overlooked writings on creativity (back in the 1980's) and introduced his theory of creativity to academia. I got early retirement at age 53 and continue to write and publish. While my Ph.D from the University of Chicago gave me academic bona fides, it was the quality of the scholarly work that ultimately mattered. I was always inspired by the harsh circumstances of Vygotsky's life and how he still kept on writing. [When I felt really sorry for myself, I would actually say "Well at least I am not coughing up blood"] So many of his works were not published in his lifetime, he did not collect a royalties check, and they say he was depressed at the end of his life. I leave you with this quote from an ancient Sufi mystic - You can't always get what you want but you can get what you need . ________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of mike cole Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:07 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship Yours is a quandary shared by your generation, Alfredo. Being allowed to teach and conduct research in a quality institution is a great privilege and an increasingly rarer possibility. There are several people on this list who have organized their lives to be independent scholars while staying connected to the core institutions of disciplinary training. It might be nice to hear the variety out there. It appears pretty certain that the situation is going to get worse before/if it gets better. What can the collective experience of xmca come up with that would be useful to the many of you caught in this meat grinder? mike On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > Good luck then, Wagner! > A > ________________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit > Sent: 18 February 2018 01:07 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > This just hit me in the spot... > > Wagner > > On Feb 17, 2018 9:48 PM, "Alfredo Jornet Gil" wrote: > > > I have not been able to contribute to this list as much as I'd like to > > lately, among other things, because I need to find a job, and I need to > > make sure that I have checked all those boxes that selection committees > > will check (enough first-authored publications? in good enough journals? > > enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? acquiring funds? > more > > than all others candidates? and more than favoured-for-whatever-other- > reasons > > candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these weeks to fill up a > > competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. > > > > > > And, although I did not think that it was particularly well written, it > > was both relieving and discouraging to read this article (see link below, > > which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague who I think also > > subscribes this list). The article makes visible the pain scholars go > > through when, after so many years of digging and digging and digging a > > little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to leave it and find some > other > > thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer who was moving through > > the world with his lovely family, short-term project after short-term > > project, getting better and better at what he worked on (apparently he > was > > among the few who had expertise in computer modeling simulating some > > astronomic events) , and finally having to step out academia last year to > > find something else to do, for his family no longer could stand the > > constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be me soon. And that may > not > > be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the story seems to be > quite > > endemic to academia and may be interesting to some of you: > > > > > > https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Loses-When/242560 > > > > Alfredo > > > > > > > > From dkellogg60@gmail.com Sun Feb 18 09:44:41 2018 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2018 02:44:41 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: That on That In-Reply-To: <1518913283332.619@iped.uio.no> References: <1518913283332.619@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: To tell you the truth, I am finding the notebooks a little embarrassing. First of all, they consist of a number of things that the author probably would not have wanted us to read, including high school jottings about the Bible and love letters. Secondly, the historical context is presented in a rather undifferentiated and ultimately unhelpful way: for example, how useful is it to say that when Vygotsky attended gymnasium he became acutely conscious of Jewish culture unless we know what kinds of Jewish culture were available (e.g. Bundism, left-Zionism, etc.), and how useful is it to know that when he was at university he was "ferociously opposed" to Marxism unless we know what kinds of Marxism he was exposed to (e.g. Freudo-Marxism, or Austro-Marxism, legal Marxism, Menshevism, or Bolshevism). When Vygotsky cites S. Bernfeld in his gymnasium writings, he can't really mean Siegfried Bernfeld, can he? Siegfried was only four years older than Vygotsky! Thirdly, and most embarrassing, I find it strange to be discussing jottings of little life like this when huge swathes of Vygotsky's most important lifework (e.g. defectology, pedology, and psychotechnics) remain unstranslated and undiscussed. I can't help but wonder if this isn't part and parcel of the project of rescuing Vygotsky from Marxism. David Kellogg Recent Article in *Mind, Culture, and Activity* 24 (4) 'Metaphoric, Metonymic, Eclectic, or Dialectic? A Commentary on ?Neoformation: A Dialectical Approach to Developmental Change?' Free e-print available (for a short time only) at http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/YAWPBtmPM8knMCNg6sS6/full On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 9:21 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > I always appreciate David's fascination with the way history, language, > and psyche intertwine, which really is a Vygotskian concern. > As for the book, and as far as I know, Mike, Beth is already moving things > to get that book reviewed. I have been reading here and there, and there is > clearly a challenge in presenting a myriad of single notes?as compared to a > manuscript that had at least to some extent been composed by the author. > The authors do a huge job in putting the notes together by topics, but yet > it requires a lot of back and forth reading to catch up with Vygotsky's > meandering and developing ideas. So endless topics for endless readings > indeed! > Alfredo > ________________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of mike cole > Sent: 17 February 2018 20:18 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: That on That > > Lots of interesting thoughts in your emails, David. "Essays on a > Hallidayan Pedology" > perhaps? > > Have your read the Vygotsky notebooks? They must contain endless topics for > discussion. > > mike > > On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 7:32 AM, David Kellogg > wrote: > > > Consider the following sentence, which was, according to the recent > > indictment, sent by a Russian agent posing as an American citizen to the > > Republican presidential campaign in 2016. > > > > "We gained a huge lot of followers and decided to somehow help Mr. Trump > > get elected." > > > > Of course, many American citizens write like this. But even staunch Trump > > supporters would find the word order oddly un-American sounding in at > least > > two places, the noun group "a huge lot" and the verb group"decided to > > somehow help". And they would be right. But why? > > > > The answer is that elements in a noun or a verb group in English have a > > certain functional order. We sometimes teach this in very complicated > ways, > > e.g. "size, color, age, material, function" to explain "big brown leather > > handbag". But describing the problem is too example-driven: it lacks the > > generality and generative power of theory: for example, it doesn't > account > > for quantifiers like "many", "few", "a lot of" or for deictics like > "this", > > "that", "these", "those", and "the", and it can't explain why things have > > that order in English. It also won't explain our verb group: it won't > tell > > us why "to somehow help Mr. Trump get elected" somehow sounds more > foreign > > than "to boldly go where no man has gone before". Finally, it won't tell > us > > anything about how this order develops in children: what they learn first > > and what they learn next. > > > > Vygotsky will explain all this, with a little help from Halliday. In > > Chapter Five of Thinking and Speech, he argues that children learn > > syncretic "heaps" first ("That on that"). There are three kinds of these > > (purely syncretic, spatial, and two-stage) but what they all have in > common > > is that they are "deictic"--the main purpose is "that on that". Then > come a > > variety of complexes, which include the concrete, objective, "factual" > > properties: number, size, shape, etc. Only then do we find concepts, and > > these too come in two different varieties: everyday and academic. The > > everyday are distinguished by modifiers at the same level of generality > as > > the concept (e.g. "leather handbag"), and the academic are distinguished > by > > conceptual hiearchies that involve different levels of generality (e.g. > "a > > type of personal accessory"). > > > > In Halliday's Introduction to Functional Grammar, we learn that groups > are > > just like clauses. They start with a Theme (an element which is speaker > > oriented, the "point of departure" of the speaker) and they end with a > > Rheme (an element which is hearer oriented, the place where the speaker > > comes in). Like clauses, groups tend to go from me to you, from old to > new, > > from deictic words to defining ones.That's why we start a noun group with > > "a", "the", or "some". That's why we continue it with numbers, and then > > with descriptors (which go from speaker-oriented-subjective to > > hearer-oriented-objective), and that's why scientific "classifiers" come > > after judgmental epithets. "A huge lot" is functionally misordered, > because > > it starts with a deictic but then puts in a descriptive before the > > numerative (like "little three pigs" or "black four and twenty birds > baked > > into a pie"). With verb groups, the modifiers can go before or after the > > verb, but not in the middle: "somehow to help" or "to help somehow". But > if > > we say "to somehow help" it really appears that "somehow" is part of the > > meaning of the verb itself (as in "to boldly go") and not the means of > the > > action. > > > > Halliday explains how they are ordered. But Vygotsky explains why. > > > > David Kellogg > > > > Recent Article in *Mind, Culture, and Activity* 24 (4) 'Metaphoric, > > Metonymic, Eclectic, or Dialectic? A Commentary on ?Neoformation: A > > Dialectical Approach to Developmental Change?' > > > > Free e-print available (for a short time only) at > > > > http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/YAWPBtmPM8knMCNg6sS6/full > > > From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Sun Feb 18 10:32:14 2018 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2018 18:32:14 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In-Reply-To: References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> <1518914964416.39650@iped.uio.no>, , Message-ID: <1518978734957.93647@iped.uio.no> Really inspiring words and work, Francine. I do see community colleges and many other educational settings apart from universities as really valuable and exciting opportunities; the PhD and following postdoc etc training in universities, however, tend to be very much targeted towards a very narrow spectrum of positions, or at least that's been my experience. I am very happy that this thread may widen that scope and make visible other paths. And as Mike suggested, it would be very interesting to hear from several others who have followed distinct trajectories apart from the phd-postdoc-assist/assoc. prof-prof, and yet made a career in touch with most of what was developed in the junior (phd and few later) years. Thanks! Alfredo ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Larry Smolucha Sent: 18 February 2018 06:20 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship Message from Francine Smolucha on a scholar's life with or without academia Alfredo, There are other jobs that pay well (sometimes with tenure and early retirement benefits) - besides professorships at four year colleges and universities. Administrative and support staff positions pay well. And don't overlook community colleges, technical colleges, and public grade schools and high schools. There is also the private sector and government jobs. As a 'low status' community college professor, I managed to translate Vygotsky's overlooked writings on creativity (back in the 1980's) and introduced his theory of creativity to academia. I got early retirement at age 53 and continue to write and publish. While my Ph.D from the University of Chicago gave me academic bona fides, it was the quality of the scholarly work that ultimately mattered. I was always inspired by the harsh circumstances of Vygotsky's life and how he still kept on writing. [When I felt really sorry for myself, I would actually say "Well at least I am not coughing up blood"] So many of his works were not published in his lifetime, he did not collect a royalties check, and they say he was depressed at the end of his life. I leave you with this quote from an ancient Sufi mystic - You can't always get what you want but you can get what you need . ________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of mike cole Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:07 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship Yours is a quandary shared by your generation, Alfredo. Being allowed to teach and conduct research in a quality institution is a great privilege and an increasingly rarer possibility. There are several people on this list who have organized their lives to be independent scholars while staying connected to the core institutions of disciplinary training. It might be nice to hear the variety out there. It appears pretty certain that the situation is going to get worse before/if it gets better. What can the collective experience of xmca come up with that would be useful to the many of you caught in this meat grinder? mike On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > Good luck then, Wagner! > A > ________________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit > Sent: 18 February 2018 01:07 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > This just hit me in the spot... > > Wagner > > On Feb 17, 2018 9:48 PM, "Alfredo Jornet Gil" wrote: > > > I have not been able to contribute to this list as much as I'd like to > > lately, among other things, because I need to find a job, and I need to > > make sure that I have checked all those boxes that selection committees > > will check (enough first-authored publications? in good enough journals? > > enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? acquiring funds? > more > > than all others candidates? and more than favoured-for-whatever-other- > reasons > > candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these weeks to fill up a > > competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. > > > > > > And, although I did not think that it was particularly well written, it > > was both relieving and discouraging to read this article (see link below, > > which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague who I think also > > subscribes this list). The article makes visible the pain scholars go > > through when, after so many years of digging and digging and digging a > > little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to leave it and find some > other > > thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer who was moving through > > the world with his lovely family, short-term project after short-term > > project, getting better and better at what he worked on (apparently he > was > > among the few who had expertise in computer modeling simulating some > > astronomic events) , and finally having to step out academia last year to > > find something else to do, for his family no longer could stand the > > constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be me soon. And that may > not > > be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the story seems to be > quite > > endemic to academia and may be interesting to some of you: > > > > > > https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Loses-When/242560 > > > > Alfredo > > > > > > > > From huw.softdesigns@gmail.com Mon Feb 19 09:19:14 2018 From: huw.softdesigns@gmail.com (Huw Lloyd) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2018 17:19:14 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In-Reply-To: <1518978734957.93647@iped.uio.no> References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> <1518914964416.39650@iped.uio.no> <1518978734957.93647@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: The article describes accumulating large amounts of knowledge pertaining to history, which (the author maintains) cannot be turned to other endeavours. This, no doubt, is true for her. If, however, her approach to studying history had been systemic, then there would have been a powerful form of re-application and continuity in any work that was turned to. Perhaps the same can be said for "phd/postdoc training". If it cannot be reused or isn't enabling, what, substantively, is it? Best, Huw On 18 February 2018 at 18:32, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > Really inspiring words and work, Francine. I do see community colleges and > many other educational settings apart from universities as really valuable > and exciting opportunities; the PhD and following postdoc etc training in > universities, however, tend to be very much targeted towards a very narrow > spectrum of positions, or at least that's been my experience. I am very > happy that this thread may widen that scope and make visible other paths. > And as Mike suggested, it would be very interesting to hear from several > others who have followed distinct trajectories apart from the > phd-postdoc-assist/assoc. prof-prof, and yet made a career in touch with > most of what was developed in the junior (phd and few later) years. > Thanks! > Alfredo > ________________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Larry Smolucha > Sent: 18 February 2018 06:20 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > Message from Francine Smolucha on a scholar's life with or without academia > > > Alfredo, > > > There are other jobs that pay well (sometimes with tenure and early > retirement benefits) - besides professorships at four year colleges and > universities. Administrative and support staff positions pay well. And > don't overlook community colleges, technical colleges, and public grade > schools and high schools. There is also the private sector and government > jobs. > > > As a 'low status' community college professor, I managed to translate > Vygotsky's > > overlooked writings on creativity (back in the 1980's) and introduced his > theory of creativity to academia. I got early retirement at age 53 and > continue to write and publish. While my Ph.D from the University of Chicago > gave me academic bona fides, it was the quality of the scholarly work that > ultimately mattered. > > > I was always inspired by the harsh circumstances of Vygotsky's life and > how he still kept on writing. > > [When I felt really sorry for myself, I would actually say "Well at least > I am not coughing up blood"] > > So many of his works were not published in his lifetime, he did not > collect a royalties check, and they say he was depressed at the end of > his life. > > > I leave you with this quote from an ancient Sufi mystic - > > > You can't always get what you want but you can get what you need > > > . > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of mike cole > Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:07 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > Yours is a quandary shared by your generation, Alfredo. > Being allowed to teach and conduct research in a quality institution is a > great privilege and an > increasingly rarer possibility. > > There are several people on this list who have organized their lives to be > independent scholars > while staying connected to the core institutions of disciplinary training. > It might be nice to hear > the variety out there. > > It appears pretty certain that the situation is going to get worse > before/if it gets better. > > What can the collective experience of xmca come up with that would be > useful to the many > of you caught in this meat grinder? > > mike > > > > On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > wrote: > > > Good luck then, Wagner! > > A > > ________________________________________ > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit > > Sent: 18 February 2018 01:07 > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > This just hit me in the spot... > > > > Wagner > > > > On Feb 17, 2018 9:48 PM, "Alfredo Jornet Gil" > wrote: > > > > > I have not been able to contribute to this list as much as I'd like to > > > lately, among other things, because I need to find a job, and I need to > > > make sure that I have checked all those boxes that selection committees > > > will check (enough first-authored publications? in good enough > journals? > > > enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? acquiring funds? > > more > > > than all others candidates? and more than favoured-for-whatever-other- > > reasons > > > candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these weeks to fill up a > > > competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. > > > > > > > > > And, although I did not think that it was particularly well written, it > > > was both relieving and discouraging to read this article (see link > below, > > > which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague who I think also > > > subscribes this list). The article makes visible the pain scholars go > > > through when, after so many years of digging and digging and digging a > > > little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to leave it and find some > > other > > > thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer who was moving > through > > > the world with his lovely family, short-term project after short-term > > > project, getting better and better at what he worked on (apparently he > > was > > > among the few who had expertise in computer modeling simulating some > > > astronomic events) , and finally having to step out academia last year > to > > > find something else to do, for his family no longer could stand the > > > constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be me soon. And that may > > not > > > be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the story seems to be > > quite > > > endemic to academia and may be interesting to some of you: > > > > > > > > > https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Loses-When/242560 > > > > > > Alfredo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From helenaworthen@gmail.com Mon Feb 19 10:19:07 2018 From: helenaworthen@gmail.com (Helena Worthen) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2018 10:19:07 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In-Reply-To: References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> <1518914964416.39650@iped.uio.no> <1518978734957.93647@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: <87FCF1E0-1B28-4F92-A85C-9E5A10424B74@gmail.com> In the interests of widening the discussion: I?ve described my work history before on this list ? basically, moving from teaching literature and writing (with stopovers in landscape architecture and theater production) to concern about the working conditions of teachers, especially academics in higher education, the 75% who are contingent/adjuncts. The concern is both for the people employed this way and for the integrity of the institutions that employ them. I eventually engaged this concern by working with and for the labor movement, ending up first working for the garment/apparel workers union in Philadelphia and then at the Labor Educaiton Program at the U of Illinois, from which I retired in 2010. The new twist to this story is about the employment of academics on short-term contracts in Viet Nam, under conditions that seem to be increasingly frequent in the ?developing? world, where the market for education is booming. University World News http://www.universityworldnews.com/ tracks this phenomenon and includes occasinal critical articles about the competition for rankings. The university where my husband and I have been teaching on and off since 2015, Ton Duc Thang in Ho Chi Minh City, recruits professors from all over the world with a promise of $2,000 per month US ? but extending their contracts depends on producing articles published in journals on the ISI list; the nature of this list is worth taking a look at. The impact of this practice on the culture and student body is not all bad. My point here is to place the issue of the challenge of getting a tenure-track job in a global context. This is not just an individual problem. I?m willing to go further down this line of discussion. However, academics are often reluctant to reveal and compare their working conditions on an ?academic? discussion list. Maybe by putting up the issue of what academic freedom requires, and how these requirements fare in the global market for higher education, we can shed the embarassment of revealing information about our own experiences with getting the brass ring of a full-time, secure job. Let?s see if anyone picks up on this. Maybe I?m being too vague. Helena Worthen helenaworthen@gmail.com Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 Blog US/ Viet Nam: helenaworthen.wordpress.com skype: helena.worthen1 > On Feb 19, 2018, at 9:19 AM, Huw Lloyd wrote: > > The article describes accumulating large amounts of knowledge pertaining to > history, which (the author maintains) cannot be turned to other endeavours. > This, no doubt, is true for her. If, however, her approach to studying > history had been systemic, then there would have been a powerful form of > re-application and continuity in any work that was turned to. Perhaps the > same can be said for "phd/postdoc training". If it cannot be reused or > isn't enabling, what, substantively, is it? > > Best, > Huw > > > On 18 February 2018 at 18:32, Alfredo Jornet Gil > wrote: > >> Really inspiring words and work, Francine. I do see community colleges and >> many other educational settings apart from universities as really valuable >> and exciting opportunities; the PhD and following postdoc etc training in >> universities, however, tend to be very much targeted towards a very narrow >> spectrum of positions, or at least that's been my experience. I am very >> happy that this thread may widen that scope and make visible other paths. >> And as Mike suggested, it would be very interesting to hear from several >> others who have followed distinct trajectories apart from the >> phd-postdoc-assist/assoc. prof-prof, and yet made a career in touch with >> most of what was developed in the junior (phd and few later) years. >> Thanks! >> Alfredo >> ________________________________________ >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> on behalf of Larry Smolucha >> Sent: 18 February 2018 06:20 >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >> >> Message from Francine Smolucha on a scholar's life with or without academia >> >> >> Alfredo, >> >> >> There are other jobs that pay well (sometimes with tenure and early >> retirement benefits) - besides professorships at four year colleges and >> universities. Administrative and support staff positions pay well. And >> don't overlook community colleges, technical colleges, and public grade >> schools and high schools. There is also the private sector and government >> jobs. >> >> >> As a 'low status' community college professor, I managed to translate >> Vygotsky's >> >> overlooked writings on creativity (back in the 1980's) and introduced his >> theory of creativity to academia. I got early retirement at age 53 and >> continue to write and publish. While my Ph.D from the University of Chicago >> gave me academic bona fides, it was the quality of the scholarly work that >> ultimately mattered. >> >> >> I was always inspired by the harsh circumstances of Vygotsky's life and >> how he still kept on writing. >> >> [When I felt really sorry for myself, I would actually say "Well at least >> I am not coughing up blood"] >> >> So many of his works were not published in his lifetime, he did not >> collect a royalties check, and they say he was depressed at the end of >> his life. >> >> >> I leave you with this quote from an ancient Sufi mystic - >> >> >> You can't always get what you want but you can get what you need >> >> >> . >> >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> on behalf of mike cole >> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:07 PM >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >> >> Yours is a quandary shared by your generation, Alfredo. >> Being allowed to teach and conduct research in a quality institution is a >> great privilege and an >> increasingly rarer possibility. >> >> There are several people on this list who have organized their lives to be >> independent scholars >> while staying connected to the core institutions of disciplinary training. >> It might be nice to hear >> the variety out there. >> >> It appears pretty certain that the situation is going to get worse >> before/if it gets better. >> >> What can the collective experience of xmca come up with that would be >> useful to the many >> of you caught in this meat grinder? >> >> mike >> >> >> >> On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil >> wrote: >> >>> Good luck then, Wagner! >>> A >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>> on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit >>> Sent: 18 February 2018 01:07 >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>> >>> This just hit me in the spot... >>> >>> Wagner >>> >>> On Feb 17, 2018 9:48 PM, "Alfredo Jornet Gil" >> wrote: >>> >>>> I have not been able to contribute to this list as much as I'd like to >>>> lately, among other things, because I need to find a job, and I need to >>>> make sure that I have checked all those boxes that selection committees >>>> will check (enough first-authored publications? in good enough >> journals? >>>> enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? acquiring funds? >>> more >>>> than all others candidates? and more than favoured-for-whatever-other- >>> reasons >>>> candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these weeks to fill up a >>>> competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. >>>> >>>> >>>> And, although I did not think that it was particularly well written, it >>>> was both relieving and discouraging to read this article (see link >> below, >>>> which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague who I think also >>>> subscribes this list). The article makes visible the pain scholars go >>>> through when, after so many years of digging and digging and digging a >>>> little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to leave it and find some >>> other >>>> thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer who was moving >> through >>>> the world with his lovely family, short-term project after short-term >>>> project, getting better and better at what he worked on (apparently he >>> was >>>> among the few who had expertise in computer modeling simulating some >>>> astronomic events) , and finally having to step out academia last year >> to >>>> find something else to do, for his family no longer could stand the >>>> constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be me soon. And that may >>> not >>>> be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the story seems to be >>> quite >>>> endemic to academia and may be interesting to some of you: >>>> >>>> >>>> https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Loses-When/242560 >>>> >>>> Alfredo >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> From greg.a.thompson@gmail.com Mon Feb 19 19:44:54 2018 From: greg.a.thompson@gmail.com (Greg Thompson) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2018 20:44:54 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In-Reply-To: <87FCF1E0-1B28-4F92-A85C-9E5A10424B74@gmail.com> References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> <1518914964416.39650@iped.uio.no> <1518978734957.93647@iped.uio.no> <87FCF1E0-1B28-4F92-A85C-9E5A10424B74@gmail.com> Message-ID: Alfredo et al., There is a very thoughtful collection of essays published in Cultural Anthropology about precisely this issue, "academic precarity". These essays address this issue in sociocultural anthropology, and although the percentages may differ in other fields, the problems are very similar. Here is the forum introduction (scroll down for links to the articles): https://culanth.org/fieldsights/1321-academic-precarity-in-american-anthropology-a-forum The first article is from a mother and son duo of academics and it discusses the mother's initial inability to understand how her son could go into private industry rather than "sticking it out" on the academic job market. Academia is a nasty business and getting nastier each year (in the U.S. this is particularly the case due to the political polarization of higher ed and the fact that many "red" states see higher ed as an enemy to be eliminated - e.g., North Carolina). And one more thing Alfredo, don't be fooled into thinking that the set of skills that you have acquired in graduate school are only applicable in this small sphere. It may seem that way at first but you should know that the Ph.D. letters do carry quite a bit of clout in the world at large. What's more, I have had a number of colleagues who I know who left academia and have found that their skill set is highly valued. A number of them work in the world of "consulting" and similar work that requires research skills. They have found that there are few people in these fields that have any idea about how to do research (one friend described how everyone on the team of researchers would use Google to conduct research on topics). Anyway, this is to say that there really is a huge amount of opportunity out there, if you are interested and willing to make a few tweaks here and there (that same aforementioned friend told me that she had to learn how to write in bullet points rather than paragraphs, and how to write a 1 page report rather than a 20 page report - not the hardest thing in the world to do... Oh, and even video analysis can be useful for HR consulting type jobs). Anyway, this isn't to say that the situation isn't sad or tragic. I think it is both. But I'd like to hold out hope that there may be ways forward that might be even better than what academia holds in store. -greg On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 11:19 AM, Helena Worthen wrote: > In the interests of widening the discussion: > > I?ve described my work history before on this list ? basically, moving > from teaching literature and writing (with stopovers in landscape > architecture and theater production) to concern about the working > conditions of teachers, especially academics in higher education, the 75% > who are contingent/adjuncts. The concern is both for the people employed > this way and for the integrity of the institutions that employ them. I > eventually engaged this concern by working with and for the labor movement, > ending up first working for the garment/apparel workers union in > Philadelphia and then at the Labor Educaiton Program at the U of Illinois, > from which I retired in 2010. > > The new twist to this story is about the employment of academics on > short-term contracts in Viet Nam, under conditions that seem to be > increasingly frequent in the ?developing? world, where the market for > education is booming. University World News http://www. > universityworldnews.com/ tracks this phenomenon and includes occasinal > critical articles about the competition for rankings. The university where > my husband and I have been teaching on and off since 2015, Ton Duc Thang in > Ho Chi Minh City, recruits professors from all over the world with a > promise of $2,000 per month US ? but extending their contracts depends on > producing articles published in journals on the ISI list; the nature of > this list is worth taking a look at. The impact of this practice on the > culture and student body is not all bad. > > My point here is to place the issue of the challenge of getting a > tenure-track job in a global context. This is not just an individual > problem. > > I?m willing to go further down this line of discussion. However, academics > are often reluctant to reveal and compare their working conditions on an > ?academic? discussion list. Maybe by putting up the issue of what academic > freedom requires, and how these requirements fare in the global market for > higher education, we can shed the embarassment of revealing information > about our own experiences with getting the brass ring of a full-time, > secure job. > > Let?s see if anyone picks up on this. Maybe I?m being too vague. > > Helena Worthen > helenaworthen@gmail.com > Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 > Blog US/ Viet Nam: > helenaworthen.wordpress.com > skype: helena.worthen1 > > > > > > > > > On Feb 19, 2018, at 9:19 AM, Huw Lloyd > wrote: > > > > The article describes accumulating large amounts of knowledge pertaining > to > > history, which (the author maintains) cannot be turned to other > endeavours. > > This, no doubt, is true for her. If, however, her approach to studying > > history had been systemic, then there would have been a powerful form of > > re-application and continuity in any work that was turned to. Perhaps the > > same can be said for "phd/postdoc training". If it cannot be reused or > > isn't enabling, what, substantively, is it? > > > > Best, > > Huw > > > > > > On 18 February 2018 at 18:32, Alfredo Jornet Gil > > wrote: > > > >> Really inspiring words and work, Francine. I do see community colleges > and > >> many other educational settings apart from universities as really > valuable > >> and exciting opportunities; the PhD and following postdoc etc training > in > >> universities, however, tend to be very much targeted towards a very > narrow > >> spectrum of positions, or at least that's been my experience. I am very > >> happy that this thread may widen that scope and make visible other > paths. > >> And as Mike suggested, it would be very interesting to hear from several > >> others who have followed distinct trajectories apart from the > >> phd-postdoc-assist/assoc. prof-prof, and yet made a career in touch with > >> most of what was developed in the junior (phd and few later) years. > >> Thanks! > >> Alfredo > >> ________________________________________ > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >> on behalf of Larry Smolucha > >> Sent: 18 February 2018 06:20 > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > >> > >> Message from Francine Smolucha on a scholar's life with or without > academia > >> > >> > >> Alfredo, > >> > >> > >> There are other jobs that pay well (sometimes with tenure and early > >> retirement benefits) - besides professorships at four year colleges and > >> universities. Administrative and support staff positions pay well. And > >> don't overlook community colleges, technical colleges, and public grade > >> schools and high schools. There is also the private sector and > government > >> jobs. > >> > >> > >> As a 'low status' community college professor, I managed to translate > >> Vygotsky's > >> > >> overlooked writings on creativity (back in the 1980's) and introduced > his > >> theory of creativity to academia. I got early retirement at age 53 and > >> continue to write and publish. While my Ph.D from the University of > Chicago > >> gave me academic bona fides, it was the quality of the scholarly work > that > >> ultimately mattered. > >> > >> > >> I was always inspired by the harsh circumstances of Vygotsky's life and > >> how he still kept on writing. > >> > >> [When I felt really sorry for myself, I would actually say "Well at > least > >> I am not coughing up blood"] > >> > >> So many of his works were not published in his lifetime, he did not > >> collect a royalties check, and they say he was depressed at the end > of > >> his life. > >> > >> > >> I leave you with this quote from an ancient Sufi mystic - > >> > >> > >> You can't always get what you want but you can get what you need > >> > >> > >> . > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ________________________________ > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >> on behalf of mike cole > >> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:07 PM > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > >> > >> Yours is a quandary shared by your generation, Alfredo. > >> Being allowed to teach and conduct research in a quality institution is > a > >> great privilege and an > >> increasingly rarer possibility. > >> > >> There are several people on this list who have organized their lives to > be > >> independent scholars > >> while staying connected to the core institutions of disciplinary > training. > >> It might be nice to hear > >> the variety out there. > >> > >> It appears pretty certain that the situation is going to get worse > >> before/if it gets better. > >> > >> What can the collective experience of xmca come up with that would be > >> useful to the many > >> of you caught in this meat grinder? > >> > >> mike > >> > >> > >> > >> On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Good luck then, Wagner! > >>> A > >>> ________________________________________ > >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > >>> on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit > >>> Sent: 18 February 2018 01:07 > >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity > >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > >>> > >>> This just hit me in the spot... > >>> > >>> Wagner > >>> > >>> On Feb 17, 2018 9:48 PM, "Alfredo Jornet Gil" > >> wrote: > >>> > >>>> I have not been able to contribute to this list as much as I'd like to > >>>> lately, among other things, because I need to find a job, and I need > to > >>>> make sure that I have checked all those boxes that selection > committees > >>>> will check (enough first-authored publications? in good enough > >> journals? > >>>> enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? acquiring funds? > >>> more > >>>> than all others candidates? and more than favoured-for-whatever-other- > >>> reasons > >>>> candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these weeks to fill up a > >>>> competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> And, although I did not think that it was particularly well written, > it > >>>> was both relieving and discouraging to read this article (see link > >> below, > >>>> which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague who I think also > >>>> subscribes this list). The article makes visible the pain scholars go > >>>> through when, after so many years of digging and digging and digging a > >>>> little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to leave it and find some > >>> other > >>>> thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer who was moving > >> through > >>>> the world with his lovely family, short-term project after short-term > >>>> project, getting better and better at what he worked on (apparently he > >>> was > >>>> among the few who had expertise in computer modeling simulating some > >>>> astronomic events) , and finally having to step out academia last year > >> to > >>>> find something else to do, for his family no longer could stand the > >>>> constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be me soon. And that may > >>> not > >>>> be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the story seems to be > >>> quite > >>>> endemic to academia and may be interesting to some of you: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Loses-When/242560 > >>>> > >>>> Alfredo > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >> > > > -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Mon Feb 19 23:12:24 2018 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2018 07:12:24 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In-Reply-To: <87FCF1E0-1B28-4F92-A85C-9E5A10424B74@gmail.com> References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> <1518914964416.39650@iped.uio.no> <1518978734957.93647@iped.uio.no> , <87FCF1E0-1B28-4F92-A85C-9E5A10424B74@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1519110745104.46827@iped.uio.no> Huw, Helena, and all, thanks to you both for taking the discussion where I was hoping it to go further: first, towards a reflection on the nature of training academic scholars go through as it concerns the classical problem of learning "transfer"; and then, as it regards the question of academic freedom (which actually may be the same question, just taken in a language more adequate to an ecological understanding of the problem). This is absolutely not just an individual problem. And, on that matter, I should be clear that I am a privileged in a privileged land, where, despite all uncertainty and pains that my family have gone and go through, I have today a good background and network, and probably better prospects than the majority of junior scholars out there. Not that I have earned this privilege for nothing: my migrant history and that of my family is all connected to an effort and quest to get better chances of academic opportunity in this market Helena talks about. But my personal story, as that of the historian in the article shared or of my French astronomer friend, are relevant in as far as they help us reflect on just those questions. They really also make one wonder on the sense of the term "academic freedom", for the latter term cannot be about doing whatever research you want to do independently of some market conditions and societal needs and economy. We may then pose the questions, what type of "freedom" is the "freedom" current systems (of incentives, of ISI lists) afford, and what type of system could allow for another meaning of the term "freedom"? Not to get too abstract, I guess that those reflections may be best pondered along concrete cases, if people is willing to take on Helena's suggestion to share particular stories of all that goes into getting into secured academic job positions, or else, of pursuing (in)dependent careers outside/at the borders of/across academia. Alfredo ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Helena Worthen Sent: 19 February 2018 19:19 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In the interests of widening the discussion: I?ve described my work history before on this list ? basically, moving from teaching literature and writing (with stopovers in landscape architecture and theater production) to concern about the working conditions of teachers, especially academics in higher education, the 75% who are contingent/adjuncts. The concern is both for the people employed this way and for the integrity of the institutions that employ them. I eventually engaged this concern by working with and for the labor movement, ending up first working for the garment/apparel workers union in Philadelphia and then at the Labor Educaiton Program at the U of Illinois, from which I retired in 2010. The new twist to this story is about the employment of academics on short-term contracts in Viet Nam, under conditions that seem to be increasingly frequent in the ?developing? world, where the market for education is booming. University World News http://www.universityworldnews.com/ tracks this phenomenon and includes occasinal critical articles about the competition for rankings. The university where my husband and I have been teaching on and off since 2015, Ton Duc Thang in Ho Chi Minh City, recruits professors from all over the world with a promise of $2,000 per month US ? but extending their contracts depends on producing articles published in journals on the ISI list; the nature of this list is worth taking a look at. The impact of this practice on the culture and student body is not all bad. My point here is to place the issue of the challenge of getting a tenure-track job in a global context. This is not just an individual problem. I?m willing to go further down this line of discussion. However, academics are often reluctant to reveal and compare their working conditions on an ?academic? discussion list. Maybe by putting up the issue of what academic freedom requires, and how these requirements fare in the global market for higher education, we can shed the embarassment of revealing information about our own experiences with getting the brass ring of a full-time, secure job. Let?s see if anyone picks up on this. Maybe I?m being too vague. Helena Worthen helenaworthen@gmail.com Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 Blog US/ Viet Nam: helenaworthen.wordpress.com skype: helena.worthen1 > On Feb 19, 2018, at 9:19 AM, Huw Lloyd wrote: > > The article describes accumulating large amounts of knowledge pertaining to > history, which (the author maintains) cannot be turned to other endeavours. > This, no doubt, is true for her. If, however, her approach to studying > history had been systemic, then there would have been a powerful form of > re-application and continuity in any work that was turned to. Perhaps the > same can be said for "phd/postdoc training". If it cannot be reused or > isn't enabling, what, substantively, is it? > > Best, > Huw > > > On 18 February 2018 at 18:32, Alfredo Jornet Gil > wrote: > >> Really inspiring words and work, Francine. I do see community colleges and >> many other educational settings apart from universities as really valuable >> and exciting opportunities; the PhD and following postdoc etc training in >> universities, however, tend to be very much targeted towards a very narrow >> spectrum of positions, or at least that's been my experience. I am very >> happy that this thread may widen that scope and make visible other paths. >> And as Mike suggested, it would be very interesting to hear from several >> others who have followed distinct trajectories apart from the >> phd-postdoc-assist/assoc. prof-prof, and yet made a career in touch with >> most of what was developed in the junior (phd and few later) years. >> Thanks! >> Alfredo >> ________________________________________ >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> on behalf of Larry Smolucha >> Sent: 18 February 2018 06:20 >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >> >> Message from Francine Smolucha on a scholar's life with or without academia >> >> >> Alfredo, >> >> >> There are other jobs that pay well (sometimes with tenure and early >> retirement benefits) - besides professorships at four year colleges and >> universities. Administrative and support staff positions pay well. And >> don't overlook community colleges, technical colleges, and public grade >> schools and high schools. There is also the private sector and government >> jobs. >> >> >> As a 'low status' community college professor, I managed to translate >> Vygotsky's >> >> overlooked writings on creativity (back in the 1980's) and introduced his >> theory of creativity to academia. I got early retirement at age 53 and >> continue to write and publish. While my Ph.D from the University of Chicago >> gave me academic bona fides, it was the quality of the scholarly work that >> ultimately mattered. >> >> >> I was always inspired by the harsh circumstances of Vygotsky's life and >> how he still kept on writing. >> >> [When I felt really sorry for myself, I would actually say "Well at least >> I am not coughing up blood"] >> >> So many of his works were not published in his lifetime, he did not >> collect a royalties check, and they say he was depressed at the end of >> his life. >> >> >> I leave you with this quote from an ancient Sufi mystic - >> >> >> You can't always get what you want but you can get what you need >> >> >> . >> >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> on behalf of mike cole >> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:07 PM >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >> >> Yours is a quandary shared by your generation, Alfredo. >> Being allowed to teach and conduct research in a quality institution is a >> great privilege and an >> increasingly rarer possibility. >> >> There are several people on this list who have organized their lives to be >> independent scholars >> while staying connected to the core institutions of disciplinary training. >> It might be nice to hear >> the variety out there. >> >> It appears pretty certain that the situation is going to get worse >> before/if it gets better. >> >> What can the collective experience of xmca come up with that would be >> useful to the many >> of you caught in this meat grinder? >> >> mike >> >> >> >> On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil >> wrote: >> >>> Good luck then, Wagner! >>> A >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>> on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit >>> Sent: 18 February 2018 01:07 >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>> >>> This just hit me in the spot... >>> >>> Wagner >>> >>> On Feb 17, 2018 9:48 PM, "Alfredo Jornet Gil" >> wrote: >>> >>>> I have not been able to contribute to this list as much as I'd like to >>>> lately, among other things, because I need to find a job, and I need to >>>> make sure that I have checked all those boxes that selection committees >>>> will check (enough first-authored publications? in good enough >> journals? >>>> enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? acquiring funds? >>> more >>>> than all others candidates? and more than favoured-for-whatever-other- >>> reasons >>>> candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these weeks to fill up a >>>> competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. >>>> >>>> >>>> And, although I did not think that it was particularly well written, it >>>> was both relieving and discouraging to read this article (see link >> below, >>>> which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague who I think also >>>> subscribes this list). The article makes visible the pain scholars go >>>> through when, after so many years of digging and digging and digging a >>>> little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to leave it and find some >>> other >>>> thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer who was moving >> through >>>> the world with his lovely family, short-term project after short-term >>>> project, getting better and better at what he worked on (apparently he >>> was >>>> among the few who had expertise in computer modeling simulating some >>>> astronomic events) , and finally having to step out academia last year >> to >>>> find something else to do, for his family no longer could stand the >>>> constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be me soon. And that may >>> not >>>> be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the story seems to be >>> quite >>>> endemic to academia and may be interesting to some of you: >>>> >>>> >>>> https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Loses-When/242560 >>>> >>>> Alfredo >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Tue Feb 20 00:17:31 2018 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2018 08:17:31 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: That on That In-Reply-To: References: <1518913283332.619@iped.uio.no>, Message-ID: <1519114650998.71801@iped.uio.no> David, I do not know about the history of this particular collection, but given that it is quite common to find letters and other private documents published posthumously, I wonder if there is something particular to this edition or if your "embarrassment" relates to this practice in general and its ethical implications. As to how helpful and relevant this collection is to enrich Vygotsky's intellectual legacy, I see many of the challenges of presentation of disconnected materials that you mention. Yet, having had a rather limited look at the book, I did not yet get a sense of this being part of any de-Marxization project, as, just as I find remarks that during a time Vygotsky seemed to reject Marxist ideas, I also read about "a sudden and decisive change ... accepting Marxism, which became one of his main sources of inspiration", and the Zakharino Hospital notes (part of which I think had been published before in 2012) you can read Vygotsky being quite explicit about his marxist methodological project. Also, I (very quickly and not at all exhaustively) looked after the citation to Bernfeld, and I only could find this citation that referred to a 1911 Hebrew Encyclopedia, which leads me to wonder about it rather, than finding it embarrassing, but that may be my own ignorance. In any case, I guess the main questions may be: is it ethically correct to have this notes published, and are they useful at all in moving Vygotsky's legacy further into something good? I am just posing the questions, for I don't have a straight answer yet. Alfredo ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of David Kellogg Sent: 18 February 2018 18:44 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: That on That To tell you the truth, I am finding the notebooks a little embarrassing. First of all, they consist of a number of things that the author probably would not have wanted us to read, including high school jottings about the Bible and love letters. Secondly, the historical context is presented in a rather undifferentiated and ultimately unhelpful way: for example, how useful is it to say that when Vygotsky attended gymnasium he became acutely conscious of Jewish culture unless we know what kinds of Jewish culture were available (e.g. Bundism, left-Zionism, etc.), and how useful is it to know that when he was at university he was "ferociously opposed" to Marxism unless we know what kinds of Marxism he was exposed to (e.g. Freudo-Marxism, or Austro-Marxism, legal Marxism, Menshevism, or Bolshevism). When Vygotsky cites S. Bernfeld in his gymnasium writings, he can't really mean Siegfried Bernfeld, can he? Siegfried was only four years older than Vygotsky! Thirdly, and most embarrassing, I find it strange to be discussing jottings of little life like this when huge swathes of Vygotsky's most important lifework (e.g. defectology, pedology, and psychotechnics) remain unstranslated and undiscussed. I can't help but wonder if this isn't part and parcel of the project of rescuing Vygotsky from Marxism. David Kellogg Recent Article in *Mind, Culture, and Activity* 24 (4) 'Metaphoric, Metonymic, Eclectic, or Dialectic? A Commentary on ?Neoformation: A Dialectical Approach to Developmental Change?' Free e-print available (for a short time only) at http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/YAWPBtmPM8knMCNg6sS6/full On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 9:21 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > I always appreciate David's fascination with the way history, language, > and psyche intertwine, which really is a Vygotskian concern. > As for the book, and as far as I know, Mike, Beth is already moving things > to get that book reviewed. I have been reading here and there, and there is > clearly a challenge in presenting a myriad of single notes?as compared to a > manuscript that had at least to some extent been composed by the author. > The authors do a huge job in putting the notes together by topics, but yet > it requires a lot of back and forth reading to catch up with Vygotsky's > meandering and developing ideas. So endless topics for endless readings > indeed! > Alfredo > ________________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of mike cole > Sent: 17 February 2018 20:18 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: That on That > > Lots of interesting thoughts in your emails, David. "Essays on a > Hallidayan Pedology" > perhaps? > > Have your read the Vygotsky notebooks? They must contain endless topics for > discussion. > > mike > > On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 7:32 AM, David Kellogg > wrote: > > > Consider the following sentence, which was, according to the recent > > indictment, sent by a Russian agent posing as an American citizen to the > > Republican presidential campaign in 2016. > > > > "We gained a huge lot of followers and decided to somehow help Mr. Trump > > get elected." > > > > Of course, many American citizens write like this. But even staunch Trump > > supporters would find the word order oddly un-American sounding in at > least > > two places, the noun group "a huge lot" and the verb group"decided to > > somehow help". And they would be right. But why? > > > > The answer is that elements in a noun or a verb group in English have a > > certain functional order. We sometimes teach this in very complicated > ways, > > e.g. "size, color, age, material, function" to explain "big brown leather > > handbag". But describing the problem is too example-driven: it lacks the > > generality and generative power of theory: for example, it doesn't > account > > for quantifiers like "many", "few", "a lot of" or for deictics like > "this", > > "that", "these", "those", and "the", and it can't explain why things have > > that order in English. It also won't explain our verb group: it won't > tell > > us why "to somehow help Mr. Trump get elected" somehow sounds more > foreign > > than "to boldly go where no man has gone before". Finally, it won't tell > us > > anything about how this order develops in children: what they learn first > > and what they learn next. > > > > Vygotsky will explain all this, with a little help from Halliday. In > > Chapter Five of Thinking and Speech, he argues that children learn > > syncretic "heaps" first ("That on that"). There are three kinds of these > > (purely syncretic, spatial, and two-stage) but what they all have in > common > > is that they are "deictic"--the main purpose is "that on that". Then > come a > > variety of complexes, which include the concrete, objective, "factual" > > properties: number, size, shape, etc. Only then do we find concepts, and > > these too come in two different varieties: everyday and academic. The > > everyday are distinguished by modifiers at the same level of generality > as > > the concept (e.g. "leather handbag"), and the academic are distinguished > by > > conceptual hiearchies that involve different levels of generality (e.g. > "a > > type of personal accessory"). > > > > In Halliday's Introduction to Functional Grammar, we learn that groups > are > > just like clauses. They start with a Theme (an element which is speaker > > oriented, the "point of departure" of the speaker) and they end with a > > Rheme (an element which is hearer oriented, the place where the speaker > > comes in). Like clauses, groups tend to go from me to you, from old to > new, > > from deictic words to defining ones.That's why we start a noun group with > > "a", "the", or "some". That's why we continue it with numbers, and then > > with descriptors (which go from speaker-oriented-subjective to > > hearer-oriented-objective), and that's why scientific "classifiers" come > > after judgmental epithets. "A huge lot" is functionally misordered, > because > > it starts with a deictic but then puts in a descriptive before the > > numerative (like "little three pigs" or "black four and twenty birds > baked > > into a pie"). With verb groups, the modifiers can go before or after the > > verb, but not in the middle: "somehow to help" or "to help somehow". But > if > > we say "to somehow help" it really appears that "somehow" is part of the > > meaning of the verb itself (as in "to boldly go") and not the means of > the > > action. > > > > Halliday explains how they are ordered. But Vygotsky explains why. > > > > David Kellogg > > > > Recent Article in *Mind, Culture, and Activity* 24 (4) 'Metaphoric, > > Metonymic, Eclectic, or Dialectic? A Commentary on ?Neoformation: A > > Dialectical Approach to Developmental Change?' > > > > Free e-print available (for a short time only) at > > > > http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/YAWPBtmPM8knMCNg6sS6/full > > > From wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com Tue Feb 20 05:11:12 2018 From: wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com (Wolff-Michael Roth) Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2018 05:11:12 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: That on That In-Reply-To: <1519114650998.71801@iped.uio.no> References: <1518913283332.619@iped.uio.no> <1519114650998.71801@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: Alfredo, All part of the materials were already published in the Journal for Russian and East European Psychology. The book undermines attempts to paint a monolithic picture of the person and his contribution to culture, whose life was as much in flux as ours, and who, was also very reflective, such as in this note: The book of all my life, badly written, but its ideas are mine. What is of the evil of the day will become obsolete. (I am not writing it at the heights of my mind but overwhelmed by the evil of the day. Something will remain for the future. The seed are my children and students to whom I would dedicate it if I would value its prospects higher. But the past, in whose power I am, is stronger. That is why ). (p.214) It shows us that he was willing to revise what he had done----among which are many of those things that he continues to be celebrated for, but that he was abandoning, realizing that they were in part *the evils of the day*. He disavows what he has done earlier as intellectualist. I also like this note from the very end This is the last thing I have done in psychology, and I will die at the summit like Moses, having glimpsed the promised land but without setting foot in it.51 Forgive me, dear creatures. (p.497) So we should not just look back at what he disavowed but forward to what he had seen. There are opportunities to take him at his word, being among his children and students, to step onto that promised land and grow something from the seeds he left, not worrying too much about the tree stumps that he burned and left behind. The notes are the tracks on paper that the activity of this person, including his thinking, left behind. Michael On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 12:17 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > David, I do not know about the history of this particular collection, but > given that it is quite common to find letters and other private documents > published posthumously, I wonder if there is something particular to this > edition or if your "embarrassment" relates to this practice in general and > its ethical implications. > > As to how helpful and relevant this collection is to enrich Vygotsky's > intellectual legacy, I see many of the challenges of presentation of > disconnected materials that you mention. Yet, having had a rather limited > look at the book, I did not yet get a sense of this being part of any > de-Marxization project, as, just as I find remarks that during a time > Vygotsky seemed to reject Marxist ideas, I also read about "a sudden and > decisive change ... accepting Marxism, which became one of his main sources > of inspiration", and the Zakharino Hospital notes (part of which I think > had been published before in 2012) you can read Vygotsky being quite > explicit about his marxist methodological project. Also, I (very quickly > and not at all exhaustively) looked after the citation to Bernfeld, and I > only could find this citation that referred to a 1911 Hebrew Encyclopedia, > which leads me to wonder about it rather, than finding it embarrassing, but > that may be my own ignorance. In any case, I guess the main questions may > be: is it ethically correct to have this notes published, and are they > useful at all in moving Vygotsky's legacy further into something good? I am > just posing the questions, for I don't have a straight answer yet. > > Alfredo > > > > > ________________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of David Kellogg > Sent: 18 February 2018 18:44 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: That on That > > To tell you the truth, I am finding the notebooks a little embarrassing. > First of all, they consist of a number of things that the author probably > would not have wanted us to read, including high school jottings about the > Bible and love letters. Secondly, the historical context is presented in a > rather undifferentiated and ultimately unhelpful way: for example, how > useful is it to say that when Vygotsky attended gymnasium he became acutely > conscious of Jewish culture unless we know what kinds of Jewish culture > were available (e.g. Bundism, left-Zionism, etc.), and how useful is it to > know that when he was at university he was "ferociously opposed" to Marxism > unless we know what kinds of Marxism he was exposed to (e.g. > Freudo-Marxism, or Austro-Marxism, legal Marxism, Menshevism, or > Bolshevism). When Vygotsky cites S. Bernfeld in his gymnasium writings, he > can't really mean Siegfried Bernfeld, can he? Siegfried was only four years > older than Vygotsky! Thirdly, and most embarrassing, I find it strange to > be discussing jottings of little life like this when huge swathes of > Vygotsky's most important lifework (e.g. defectology, pedology, and > psychotechnics) remain unstranslated and undiscussed. I can't help but > wonder if this isn't part and parcel of the project of rescuing Vygotsky > from Marxism. > > > > David Kellogg > > Recent Article in *Mind, Culture, and Activity* 24 (4) 'Metaphoric, > Metonymic, Eclectic, or Dialectic? A Commentary on ?Neoformation: A > Dialectical Approach to Developmental Change?' > > Free e-print available (for a short time only) at > > http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/YAWPBtmPM8knMCNg6sS6/full > > > On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 9:21 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > wrote: > > > I always appreciate David's fascination with the way history, language, > > and psyche intertwine, which really is a Vygotskian concern. > > As for the book, and as far as I know, Mike, Beth is already moving > things > > to get that book reviewed. I have been reading here and there, and there > is > > clearly a challenge in presenting a myriad of single notes?as compared > to a > > manuscript that had at least to some extent been composed by the author. > > The authors do a huge job in putting the notes together by topics, but > yet > > it requires a lot of back and forth reading to catch up with Vygotsky's > > meandering and developing ideas. So endless topics for endless readings > > indeed! > > Alfredo > > ________________________________________ > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > on behalf of mike cole > > Sent: 17 February 2018 20:18 > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: That on That > > > > Lots of interesting thoughts in your emails, David. "Essays on a > > Hallidayan Pedology" > > perhaps? > > > > Have your read the Vygotsky notebooks? They must contain endless topics > for > > discussion. > > > > mike > > > > On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 7:32 AM, David Kellogg > > wrote: > > > > > Consider the following sentence, which was, according to the recent > > > indictment, sent by a Russian agent posing as an American citizen to > the > > > Republican presidential campaign in 2016. > > > > > > "We gained a huge lot of followers and decided to somehow help Mr. > Trump > > > get elected." > > > > > > Of course, many American citizens write like this. But even staunch > Trump > > > supporters would find the word order oddly un-American sounding in at > > least > > > two places, the noun group "a huge lot" and the verb group"decided to > > > somehow help". And they would be right. But why? > > > > > > The answer is that elements in a noun or a verb group in English have a > > > certain functional order. We sometimes teach this in very complicated > > ways, > > > e.g. "size, color, age, material, function" to explain "big brown > leather > > > handbag". But describing the problem is too example-driven: it lacks > the > > > generality and generative power of theory: for example, it doesn't > > account > > > for quantifiers like "many", "few", "a lot of" or for deictics like > > "this", > > > "that", "these", "those", and "the", and it can't explain why things > have > > > that order in English. It also won't explain our verb group: it won't > > tell > > > us why "to somehow help Mr. Trump get elected" somehow sounds more > > foreign > > > than "to boldly go where no man has gone before". Finally, it won't > tell > > us > > > anything about how this order develops in children: what they learn > first > > > and what they learn next. > > > > > > Vygotsky will explain all this, with a little help from Halliday. In > > > Chapter Five of Thinking and Speech, he argues that children learn > > > syncretic "heaps" first ("That on that"). There are three kinds of > these > > > (purely syncretic, spatial, and two-stage) but what they all have in > > common > > > is that they are "deictic"--the main purpose is "that on that". Then > > come a > > > variety of complexes, which include the concrete, objective, "factual" > > > properties: number, size, shape, etc. Only then do we find concepts, > and > > > these too come in two different varieties: everyday and academic. The > > > everyday are distinguished by modifiers at the same level of generality > > as > > > the concept (e.g. "leather handbag"), and the academic are > distinguished > > by > > > conceptual hiearchies that involve different levels of generality (e.g. > > "a > > > type of personal accessory"). > > > > > > In Halliday's Introduction to Functional Grammar, we learn that groups > > are > > > just like clauses. They start with a Theme (an element which is speaker > > > oriented, the "point of departure" of the speaker) and they end with a > > > Rheme (an element which is hearer oriented, the place where the speaker > > > comes in). Like clauses, groups tend to go from me to you, from old to > > new, > > > from deictic words to defining ones.That's why we start a noun group > with > > > "a", "the", or "some". That's why we continue it with numbers, and then > > > with descriptors (which go from speaker-oriented-subjective to > > > hearer-oriented-objective), and that's why scientific "classifiers" > come > > > after judgmental epithets. "A huge lot" is functionally misordered, > > because > > > it starts with a deictic but then puts in a descriptive before the > > > numerative (like "little three pigs" or "black four and twenty birds > > baked > > > into a pie"). With verb groups, the modifiers can go before or after > the > > > verb, but not in the middle: "somehow to help" or "to help somehow". > But > > if > > > we say "to somehow help" it really appears that "somehow" is part of > the > > > meaning of the verb itself (as in "to boldly go") and not the means of > > the > > > action. > > > > > > Halliday explains how they are ordered. But Vygotsky explains why. > > > > > > David Kellogg > > > > > > Recent Article in *Mind, Culture, and Activity* 24 (4) 'Metaphoric, > > > Metonymic, Eclectic, or Dialectic? A Commentary on ?Neoformation: A > > > Dialectical Approach to Developmental Change?' > > > > > > Free e-print available (for a short time only) at > > > > > > http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/YAWPBtmPM8knMCNg6sS6/full > > > > > > From andyb@marxists.org Tue Feb 20 05:57:03 2018 From: andyb@marxists.org (Andy Blunden) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2018 00:57:03 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: That on That In-Reply-To: References: <1518913283332.619@iped.uio.no> <1519114650998.71801@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: Revising the way an important writer of the past is read is usually mediated by the transcribing of "new" manuscripts, and this phenomenon is not at always bent on showing whither the writer's life was really going. For several generations, interpretations of Hegel hinged on the (mature) Encyclopaedia and the Lectures of his Berlin period, but then when people wanted to discover a less metaphysical Hegel, the works of the more radical, more materialist "Young Hegel" were discovered and formed the basis for new interpretations of Hegel. Likewise, when people wanted to break from orthodox Soviet-style readings of Marx, "the Young Marx" was the favourite text, and translation of the Grundrisse into English in the 1970s undermined anti-humanist readings such as those of Althusser. Nowadays, the decoding of his Ethnographic Notebooks provides the opportunity for all sorts of re-interpretations. Foucault was rescued from the realisation that the social theory which he popularised turned out to be lacking any ethical basis by the "discovery" of his later works, on this occasion. The study of a writer's evolution is always of interest, and as Michael says, it tends to undermine "monolithic" interpretations of the person. For me, I have found that it was only in about 1930 that Vygotsky embraced the Hegelian view of concepts, key to the formation of the ideas I most value in Thinking and Speech. but I still find important gems in his earlier work, even "Ape, Child and Primitive Man." My experience has been that even though some periods of a writer's life may prove of greater lasting value than another - and these may be the later or the earlier phases in this or that case, according to your theoretical prejudices - it is usually the case that these phases can be made sense of in a coherent way and that every phase of an important writer's life has something to offer. An author's last word does not negate their legacy any more than the youth's derivative and naive scribblings undermine the genius to be released in adult life. Try the letters of the 17-year-old Marx for example. Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm On 21/02/2018 12:11 AM, Wolff-Michael Roth wrote: > Alfredo, All > > part of the materials were already published in the Journal for Russian and > East European Psychology. > > The book undermines attempts to paint a monolithic picture of the person > and his contribution to culture, whose life was as much in flux as ours, > and who, was also very reflective, such as in this note: > > The book of all my life, badly written, but its ideas are mine. What is of > the evil > of the day will become obsolete. (I am not writing it at the heights of my > mind but > overwhelmed by the evil of the day. Something will remain for the future. > The seed > are my children and students to whom I would dedicate it if I would value > its > prospects higher. But the past, in whose power I am, is stronger. That is > why > ). (p.214) > > It shows us that he was willing to revise what he had done----among which > are many of those things that he continues to be celebrated for, but that > he was abandoning, realizing that they were in part *the evils of the day*. > He disavows what he has done earlier as intellectualist. > > I also like this note from the very end > > This is the last thing I have done in psychology, and I will die at the > summit like > Moses, having glimpsed the promised land but without setting foot in it.51 > Forgive > me, dear creatures. (p.497) > > So we should not just look back at what he disavowed but forward to what he > had seen. There are opportunities to take him at his word, being among his > children and students, to step onto that promised land and grow something > from the seeds he left, not worrying too much about the tree stumps that he > burned and left behind. > > The notes are the tracks on paper that the activity of this person, > including his thinking, left behind. > > Michael > > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 12:17 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > wrote: > >> David, I do not know about the history of this particular collection, but >> given that it is quite common to find letters and other private documents >> published posthumously, I wonder if there is something particular to this >> edition or if your "embarrassment" relates to this practice in general and >> its ethical implications. >> >> As to how helpful and relevant this collection is to enrich Vygotsky's >> intellectual legacy, I see many of the challenges of presentation of >> disconnected materials that you mention. Yet, having had a rather limited >> look at the book, I did not yet get a sense of this being part of any >> de-Marxization project, as, just as I find remarks that during a time >> Vygotsky seemed to reject Marxist ideas, I also read about "a sudden and >> decisive change ... accepting Marxism, which became one of his main sources >> of inspiration", and the Zakharino Hospital notes (part of which I think >> had been published before in 2012) you can read Vygotsky being quite >> explicit about his marxist methodological project. Also, I (very quickly >> and not at all exhaustively) looked after the citation to Bernfeld, and I >> only could find this citation that referred to a 1911 Hebrew Encyclopedia, >> which leads me to wonder about it rather, than finding it embarrassing, but >> that may be my own ignorance. In any case, I guess the main questions may >> be: is it ethically correct to have this notes published, and are they >> useful at all in moving Vygotsky's legacy further into something good? I am >> just posing the questions, for I don't have a straight answer yet. >> >> Alfredo >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> on behalf of David Kellogg >> Sent: 18 February 2018 18:44 >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: That on That >> >> To tell you the truth, I am finding the notebooks a little embarrassing. >> First of all, they consist of a number of things that the author probably >> would not have wanted us to read, including high school jottings about the >> Bible and love letters. Secondly, the historical context is presented in a >> rather undifferentiated and ultimately unhelpful way: for example, how >> useful is it to say that when Vygotsky attended gymnasium he became acutely >> conscious of Jewish culture unless we know what kinds of Jewish culture >> were available (e.g. Bundism, left-Zionism, etc.), and how useful is it to >> know that when he was at university he was "ferociously opposed" to Marxism >> unless we know what kinds of Marxism he was exposed to (e.g. >> Freudo-Marxism, or Austro-Marxism, legal Marxism, Menshevism, or >> Bolshevism). When Vygotsky cites S. Bernfeld in his gymnasium writings, he >> can't really mean Siegfried Bernfeld, can he? Siegfried was only four years >> older than Vygotsky! Thirdly, and most embarrassing, I find it strange to >> be discussing jottings of little life like this when huge swathes of >> Vygotsky's most important lifework (e.g. defectology, pedology, and >> psychotechnics) remain unstranslated and undiscussed. I can't help but >> wonder if this isn't part and parcel of the project of rescuing Vygotsky >> from Marxism. >> >> >> >> David Kellogg >> >> Recent Article in *Mind, Culture, and Activity* 24 (4) 'Metaphoric, >> Metonymic, Eclectic, or Dialectic? A Commentary on ?Neoformation: A >> Dialectical Approach to Developmental Change?' >> >> Free e-print available (for a short time only) at >> >> http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/YAWPBtmPM8knMCNg6sS6/full >> >> >> On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 9:21 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil >> wrote: >> >>> I always appreciate David's fascination with the way history, language, >>> and psyche intertwine, which really is a Vygotskian concern. >>> As for the book, and as far as I know, Mike, Beth is already moving >> things >>> to get that book reviewed. I have been reading here and there, and there >> is >>> clearly a challenge in presenting a myriad of single notes?as compared >> to a >>> manuscript that had at least to some extent been composed by the author. >>> The authors do a huge job in putting the notes together by topics, but >> yet >>> it requires a lot of back and forth reading to catch up with Vygotsky's >>> meandering and developing ideas. So endless topics for endless readings >>> indeed! >>> Alfredo >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>> on behalf of mike cole >>> Sent: 17 February 2018 20:18 >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: That on That >>> >>> Lots of interesting thoughts in your emails, David. "Essays on a >>> Hallidayan Pedology" >>> perhaps? >>> >>> Have your read the Vygotsky notebooks? They must contain endless topics >> for >>> discussion. >>> >>> mike >>> >>> On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 7:32 AM, David Kellogg >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Consider the following sentence, which was, according to the recent >>>> indictment, sent by a Russian agent posing as an American citizen to >> the >>>> Republican presidential campaign in 2016. >>>> >>>> "We gained a huge lot of followers and decided to somehow help Mr. >> Trump >>>> get elected." >>>> >>>> Of course, many American citizens write like this. But even staunch >> Trump >>>> supporters would find the word order oddly un-American sounding in at >>> least >>>> two places, the noun group "a huge lot" and the verb group"decided to >>>> somehow help". And they would be right. But why? >>>> >>>> The answer is that elements in a noun or a verb group in English have a >>>> certain functional order. We sometimes teach this in very complicated >>> ways, >>>> e.g. "size, color, age, material, function" to explain "big brown >> leather >>>> handbag". But describing the problem is too example-driven: it lacks >> the >>>> generality and generative power of theory: for example, it doesn't >>> account >>>> for quantifiers like "many", "few", "a lot of" or for deictics like >>> "this", >>>> "that", "these", "those", and "the", and it can't explain why things >> have >>>> that order in English. It also won't explain our verb group: it won't >>> tell >>>> us why "to somehow help Mr. Trump get elected" somehow sounds more >>> foreign >>>> than "to boldly go where no man has gone before". Finally, it won't >> tell >>> us >>>> anything about how this order develops in children: what they learn >> first >>>> and what they learn next. >>>> >>>> Vygotsky will explain all this, with a little help from Halliday. In >>>> Chapter Five of Thinking and Speech, he argues that children learn >>>> syncretic "heaps" first ("That on that"). There are three kinds of >> these >>>> (purely syncretic, spatial, and two-stage) but what they all have in >>> common >>>> is that they are "deictic"--the main purpose is "that on that". Then >>> come a >>>> variety of complexes, which include the concrete, objective, "factual" >>>> properties: number, size, shape, etc. Only then do we find concepts, >> and >>>> these too come in two different varieties: everyday and academic. The >>>> everyday are distinguished by modifiers at the same level of generality >>> as >>>> the concept (e.g. "leather handbag"), and the academic are >> distinguished >>> by >>>> conceptual hiearchies that involve different levels of generality (e.g. >>> "a >>>> type of personal accessory"). >>>> >>>> In Halliday's Introduction to Functional Grammar, we learn that groups >>> are >>>> just like clauses. They start with a Theme (an element which is speaker >>>> oriented, the "point of departure" of the speaker) and they end with a >>>> Rheme (an element which is hearer oriented, the place where the speaker >>>> comes in). Like clauses, groups tend to go from me to you, from old to >>> new, >>>> from deictic words to defining ones.That's why we start a noun group >> with >>>> "a", "the", or "some". That's why we continue it with numbers, and then >>>> with descriptors (which go from speaker-oriented-subjective to >>>> hearer-oriented-objective), and that's why scientific "classifiers" >> come >>>> after judgmental epithets. "A huge lot" is functionally misordered, >>> because >>>> it starts with a deictic but then puts in a descriptive before the >>>> numerative (like "little three pigs" or "black four and twenty birds >>> baked >>>> into a pie"). With verb groups, the modifiers can go before or after >> the >>>> verb, but not in the middle: "somehow to help" or "to help somehow". >> But >>> if >>>> we say "to somehow help" it really appears that "somehow" is part of >> the >>>> meaning of the verb itself (as in "to boldly go") and not the means of >>> the >>>> action. >>>> >>>> Halliday explains how they are ordered. But Vygotsky explains why. >>>> >>>> David Kellogg >>>> >>>> Recent Article in *Mind, Culture, and Activity* 24 (4) 'Metaphoric, >>>> Metonymic, Eclectic, or Dialectic? A Commentary on ?Neoformation: A >>>> Dialectical Approach to Developmental Change?' >>>> >>>> Free e-print available (for a short time only) at >>>> >>>> http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/YAWPBtmPM8knMCNg6sS6/full >>>> From dkellogg60@gmail.com Tue Feb 20 07:31:32 2018 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2018 00:31:32 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: That on That In-Reply-To: References: <1518913283332.619@iped.uio.no> <1519114650998.71801@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: A notebook is a form of "egocentric" written speech. It's writing that is self-directed on the one hand and completely silent (not designed to be spoke or even read by others) on the other. When I keep notes (which is rare, as I find it very hard to think anything worth thinking entirely on my own), I find it very hard to understand what I've written even after quite a short lapse of time (say a year or two). I find this embarrassing, like not being able to remember what something important that someone said, only the person who said it was me. One problem is precisely the problem we discussed earlier: the context is gone; in particular, the interpersonal context is gone. The interpersonal context is absolutely essential at the beginning of life (as Vygotsky points out, there is essentially no semantics to infant speech without the interpersonal context). But it's also very important as we near the end, in a somewhat different way: we find ourselves addressing the next generation (as in the other thread in this conversation on leaving academica, as in my father's advice to his grandchildren around the dinner table last night, and as in the papers which Vygotsky really did prepare for us against his own imminent death, such as the Historical Meaning of the Crisis in Psychology and later Thinking and Speech). More--I think that since inner speech is really at an extreme dialogic end of speech, the interpersonal context becomes more important in inner speech and must bear more semantic weight than even oral or written speech (as Andy has pointed out, Lenin's philosophical notebooks are not particularly meaningful except when we read them in dialogue with Hegel's logic, in whose margins they were written). But another problem is the problem Nikolai Veresov has raised here: https://tidsskrift.dk/index.php/outlines/article/view/2110 When people ask whether Vygotsky was a Marxist, or how, or why, they are starting in the wrong place. We need to first ask which Vygotsky and which Marxism are we interested in. Nikolai's view is somewhat too synoptic for me: when I read early Vygotsky, what strikes me is that the later Vygotsky is the key to its anatomy, and I am happy to think of a single Vygotsky (even though when I look back at my own life, I think in definite episodes, and here in my childhood home I do find myself thinking of my child self in the third person and not in the first person). Yet for that very reason I agree with Nikolai's conclusion that Vygotsky was Marxist in some way or another at every point in his career, but his Marxism changed as he did. The whole problem is to discern how and why. Do the notebooks help us solve this problem? I am willing to accept that Vygotsky belongs to history and not to Roza and Gita and the people who actually knew and loved him, and so I suppose I must also accept the violation of the privacy of what the notebooks show to be a very introverted, rather intense, and somewhat shy little chap. But I don't accept that these notebooks are as accessible and comprehensible and important as his pedological lectures, where the interpersonal context is much much clearer, or his defectological work, which left a discernible textual and methodological mark on all of his other work (because it is in defectology that we really see the historical method rising to the concrete). I'm also very wary of any attempt to claim transcontextual significance for Vygotsky the individual: that way lies an obedience cult constructed around a personality. What we really need now--especially for young scholars who are thinking of leaving academia--is a Cultural Historical Activity Practice. CHAP, anyone? David Kellogg Recent Article in *Mind, Culture, and Activity* 24 (4) 'Metaphoric, Metonymic, Eclectic, or Dialectic? A Commentary on ?Neoformation: A Dialectical Approach to Developmental Change?' Free e-print available (for a short time only) at http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/YAWPBtmPM8knMCNg6sS6/full On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 10:57 PM, Andy Blunden wrote: > Revising the way an important writer of the past is read is > usually mediated by the transcribing of "new" manuscripts, > and this phenomenon is not at always bent on showing whither > the writer's life was really going. > > For several generations, interpretations of Hegel hinged on > the (mature) Encyclopaedia and the Lectures of his Berlin > period, but then when people wanted to discover a less > metaphysical Hegel, the works of the more radical, more > materialist "Young Hegel" were discovered and formed the > basis for new interpretations of Hegel. > > Likewise, when people wanted to break from orthodox > Soviet-style readings of Marx, "the Young Marx" was the > favourite text, and translation of the Grundrisse into > English in the 1970s undermined anti-humanist readings such > as those of Althusser. Nowadays, the decoding of his > Ethnographic Notebooks provides the opportunity for all > sorts of re-interpretations. > > Foucault was rescued from the realisation that the social > theory which he popularised turned out to be lacking any > ethical basis by the "discovery" of his later works, on this > occasion. > > The study of a writer's evolution is always of interest, and > as Michael says, it tends to undermine "monolithic" > interpretations of the person. > > For me, I have found that it was only in about 1930 that > Vygotsky embraced the Hegelian view of concepts, key to the > formation of the ideas I most value in Thinking and Speech. > but I still find important gems in his earlier work, even > "Ape, Child and Primitive Man." > > My experience has been that even though some periods of a > writer's life may prove of greater lasting value than > another - and these may be the later or the earlier phases > in this or that case, according to your theoretical > prejudices - it is usually the case that these phases can be > made sense of in a coherent way and that every phase of an > important writer's life has something to offer. An author's > last word does not negate their legacy any more than the > youth's derivative and naive scribblings undermine the > genius to be released in adult life. Try the letters of the > 17-year-old Marx for example. > > Andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm > On 21/02/2018 12:11 AM, Wolff-Michael Roth wrote: > > Alfredo, All > > > > part of the materials were already published in the Journal for Russian > and > > East European Psychology. > > > > The book undermines attempts to paint a monolithic picture of the person > > and his contribution to culture, whose life was as much in flux as ours, > > and who, was also very reflective, such as in this note: > > > > The book of all my life, badly written, but its ideas are mine. What is > of > > the evil > > of the day will become obsolete. (I am not writing it at the heights of > my > > mind but > > overwhelmed by the evil of the day. Something will remain for the future. > > The seed > > are my children and students to whom I would dedicate it if I would value > > its > > prospects higher. But the past, in whose power I am, is stronger. That is > > why > > ). (p.214) > > > > It shows us that he was willing to revise what he had done----among which > > are many of those things that he continues to be celebrated for, but that > > he was abandoning, realizing that they were in part *the evils of the > day*. > > He disavows what he has done earlier as intellectualist. > > > > I also like this note from the very end > > > > This is the last thing I have done in psychology, and I will die at the > > summit like > > Moses, having glimpsed the promised land but without setting foot in > it.51 > > Forgive > > me, dear creatures. (p.497) > > > > So we should not just look back at what he disavowed but forward to what > he > > had seen. There are opportunities to take him at his word, being among > his > > children and students, to step onto that promised land and grow something > > from the seeds he left, not worrying too much about the tree stumps that > he > > burned and left behind. > > > > The notes are the tracks on paper that the activity of this person, > > including his thinking, left behind. > > > > Michael > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 12:17 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > > wrote: > > > >> David, I do not know about the history of this particular collection, > but > >> given that it is quite common to find letters and other private > documents > >> published posthumously, I wonder if there is something particular to > this > >> edition or if your "embarrassment" relates to this practice in general > and > >> its ethical implications. > >> > >> As to how helpful and relevant this collection is to enrich Vygotsky's > >> intellectual legacy, I see many of the challenges of presentation of > >> disconnected materials that you mention. Yet, having had a rather > limited > >> look at the book, I did not yet get a sense of this being part of any > >> de-Marxization project, as, just as I find remarks that during a time > >> Vygotsky seemed to reject Marxist ideas, I also read about "a sudden and > >> decisive change ... accepting Marxism, which became one of his main > sources > >> of inspiration", and the Zakharino Hospital notes (part of which I think > >> had been published before in 2012) you can read Vygotsky being quite > >> explicit about his marxist methodological project. Also, I (very quickly > >> and not at all exhaustively) looked after the citation to Bernfeld, and > I > >> only could find this citation that referred to a 1911 Hebrew > Encyclopedia, > >> which leads me to wonder about it rather, than finding it embarrassing, > but > >> that may be my own ignorance. In any case, I guess the main questions > may > >> be: is it ethically correct to have this notes published, and are they > >> useful at all in moving Vygotsky's legacy further into something good? > I am > >> just posing the questions, for I don't have a straight answer yet. > >> > >> Alfredo > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ________________________________________ > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >> on behalf of David Kellogg > >> Sent: 18 February 2018 18:44 > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: That on That > >> > >> To tell you the truth, I am finding the notebooks a little embarrassing. > >> First of all, they consist of a number of things that the author > probably > >> would not have wanted us to read, including high school jottings about > the > >> Bible and love letters. Secondly, the historical context is presented > in a > >> rather undifferentiated and ultimately unhelpful way: for example, how > >> useful is it to say that when Vygotsky attended gymnasium he became > acutely > >> conscious of Jewish culture unless we know what kinds of Jewish culture > >> were available (e.g. Bundism, left-Zionism, etc.), and how useful is it > to > >> know that when he was at university he was "ferociously opposed" to > Marxism > >> unless we know what kinds of Marxism he was exposed to (e.g. > >> Freudo-Marxism, or Austro-Marxism, legal Marxism, Menshevism, or > >> Bolshevism). When Vygotsky cites S. Bernfeld in his gymnasium writings, > he > >> can't really mean Siegfried Bernfeld, can he? Siegfried was only four > years > >> older than Vygotsky! Thirdly, and most embarrassing, I find it strange > to > >> be discussing jottings of little life like this when huge swathes of > >> Vygotsky's most important lifework (e.g. defectology, pedology, and > >> psychotechnics) remain unstranslated and undiscussed. I can't help but > >> wonder if this isn't part and parcel of the project of rescuing Vygotsky > >> from Marxism. > >> > >> > >> > >> David Kellogg > >> > >> Recent Article in *Mind, Culture, and Activity* 24 (4) 'Metaphoric, > >> Metonymic, Eclectic, or Dialectic? A Commentary on ?Neoformation: A > >> Dialectical Approach to Developmental Change?' > >> > >> Free e-print available (for a short time only) at > >> > >> http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/YAWPBtmPM8knMCNg6sS6/full > >> > >> > >> On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 9:21 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> I always appreciate David's fascination with the way history, language, > >>> and psyche intertwine, which really is a Vygotskian concern. > >>> As for the book, and as far as I know, Mike, Beth is already moving > >> things > >>> to get that book reviewed. I have been reading here and there, and > there > >> is > >>> clearly a challenge in presenting a myriad of single notes?as compared > >> to a > >>> manuscript that had at least to some extent been composed by the > author. > >>> The authors do a huge job in putting the notes together by topics, but > >> yet > >>> it requires a lot of back and forth reading to catch up with Vygotsky's > >>> meandering and developing ideas. So endless topics for endless readings > >>> indeed! > >>> Alfredo > >>> ________________________________________ > >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > >>> on behalf of mike cole > >>> Sent: 17 February 2018 20:18 > >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: That on That > >>> > >>> Lots of interesting thoughts in your emails, David. "Essays on a > >>> Hallidayan Pedology" > >>> perhaps? > >>> > >>> Have your read the Vygotsky notebooks? They must contain endless topics > >> for > >>> discussion. > >>> > >>> mike > >>> > >>> On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 7:32 AM, David Kellogg > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Consider the following sentence, which was, according to the recent > >>>> indictment, sent by a Russian agent posing as an American citizen to > >> the > >>>> Republican presidential campaign in 2016. > >>>> > >>>> "We gained a huge lot of followers and decided to somehow help Mr. > >> Trump > >>>> get elected." > >>>> > >>>> Of course, many American citizens write like this. But even staunch > >> Trump > >>>> supporters would find the word order oddly un-American sounding in at > >>> least > >>>> two places, the noun group "a huge lot" and the verb group"decided to > >>>> somehow help". And they would be right. But why? > >>>> > >>>> The answer is that elements in a noun or a verb group in English have > a > >>>> certain functional order. We sometimes teach this in very complicated > >>> ways, > >>>> e.g. "size, color, age, material, function" to explain "big brown > >> leather > >>>> handbag". But describing the problem is too example-driven: it lacks > >> the > >>>> generality and generative power of theory: for example, it doesn't > >>> account > >>>> for quantifiers like "many", "few", "a lot of" or for deictics like > >>> "this", > >>>> "that", "these", "those", and "the", and it can't explain why things > >> have > >>>> that order in English. It also won't explain our verb group: it won't > >>> tell > >>>> us why "to somehow help Mr. Trump get elected" somehow sounds more > >>> foreign > >>>> than "to boldly go where no man has gone before". Finally, it won't > >> tell > >>> us > >>>> anything about how this order develops in children: what they learn > >> first > >>>> and what they learn next. > >>>> > >>>> Vygotsky will explain all this, with a little help from Halliday. In > >>>> Chapter Five of Thinking and Speech, he argues that children learn > >>>> syncretic "heaps" first ("That on that"). There are three kinds of > >> these > >>>> (purely syncretic, spatial, and two-stage) but what they all have in > >>> common > >>>> is that they are "deictic"--the main purpose is "that on that". Then > >>> come a > >>>> variety of complexes, which include the concrete, objective, "factual" > >>>> properties: number, size, shape, etc. Only then do we find concepts, > >> and > >>>> these too come in two different varieties: everyday and academic. The > >>>> everyday are distinguished by modifiers at the same level of > generality > >>> as > >>>> the concept (e.g. "leather handbag"), and the academic are > >> distinguished > >>> by > >>>> conceptual hiearchies that involve different levels of generality > (e.g. > >>> "a > >>>> type of personal accessory"). > >>>> > >>>> In Halliday's Introduction to Functional Grammar, we learn that groups > >>> are > >>>> just like clauses. They start with a Theme (an element which is > speaker > >>>> oriented, the "point of departure" of the speaker) and they end with a > >>>> Rheme (an element which is hearer oriented, the place where the > speaker > >>>> comes in). Like clauses, groups tend to go from me to you, from old to > >>> new, > >>>> from deictic words to defining ones.That's why we start a noun group > >> with > >>>> "a", "the", or "some". That's why we continue it with numbers, and > then > >>>> with descriptors (which go from speaker-oriented-subjective to > >>>> hearer-oriented-objective), and that's why scientific "classifiers" > >> come > >>>> after judgmental epithets. "A huge lot" is functionally misordered, > >>> because > >>>> it starts with a deictic but then puts in a descriptive before the > >>>> numerative (like "little three pigs" or "black four and twenty birds > >>> baked > >>>> into a pie"). With verb groups, the modifiers can go before or after > >> the > >>>> verb, but not in the middle: "somehow to help" or "to help somehow". > >> But > >>> if > >>>> we say "to somehow help" it really appears that "somehow" is part of > >> the > >>>> meaning of the verb itself (as in "to boldly go") and not the means of > >>> the > >>>> action. > >>>> > >>>> Halliday explains how they are ordered. But Vygotsky explains why. > >>>> > >>>> David Kellogg > >>>> > >>>> Recent Article in *Mind, Culture, and Activity* 24 (4) 'Metaphoric, > >>>> Metonymic, Eclectic, or Dialectic? A Commentary on ?Neoformation: A > >>>> Dialectical Approach to Developmental Change?' > >>>> > >>>> Free e-print available (for a short time only) at > >>>> > >>>> http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/YAWPBtmPM8knMCNg6sS6/full > >>>> > > From huw.softdesigns@gmail.com Tue Feb 20 12:57:39 2018 From: huw.softdesigns@gmail.com (Huw Lloyd) Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2018 20:57:39 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In-Reply-To: <1519110745104.46827@iped.uio.no> References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> <1518914964416.39650@iped.uio.no> <1518978734957.93647@iped.uio.no> <87FCF1E0-1B28-4F92-A85C-9E5A10424B74@gmail.com> <1519110745104.46827@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: Well, I would say there is more to it than simply transfer-ability, which might be thought of as a good bureaucratic requirement. Really what is required is genuine development -- reorganisation of thought and learning. That is what is significant at a personal level, which is also the basis of insights and creative work (i.e. personal knowledge rather than second hand knowledge). The researcher in the blog article does not evince this (with allusions to the nature of her training). There is the history school children learn, which largely concerns the use of memory, and then there is the history of conditions, relations and processes, which concerns protracted thought. This developmental emphasis is what is lacking in institutions which is why I have frequently pointed it out. This principle apples to "secure" jobs too. The jobs I have walked away from have been due to the overly narrow scope, where I felt it was necessary to be far more ambitious to achieve modest satisfaction, an ambition which included achieving the wider scope within the norms established. Similar issues pertain to my peripheral engagement with academia. Twenty years ago, after completing a masters in cognitive science (a good year), I decided against pursuing any further formal education with any immediacy due to my sense that what I was encountering in the subject (and related subjects) was fundamentally wrong or inadequate, but I couldn't quite discern what that was. So, for me, I had no interest in furthering the academic course at the time, because I was concerned with understanding, doing, discovering and development, not being a "good researcher". I was and am uninterested in the trappings of academia, what it looks like from the outside (with dubious ethics of promoting those in society who least need it) -- hence I am not too bothered about where the experiences come from. After all, if you want sound knowledge then it should be validated in places where it counts (in action), not in an echo chamber of words. >From my (developmental) perspective academia appears to be chockfull of unproductive thinking. The lack of systems understanding in the social sciences (which has been pointed out by key persons for two generations) I find to be quite incredible. This, as far as I can see, is the panacea to the stasis and lethargy that I have seen in certain institutions, where there are people in secure jobs with no interest in revitalising an institution (perhaps the same people who rely upon their status for authority). In the UK, in the social sciences, the whole social science infrastructure is built upon a notion of quality that is ignorant of systems -- that is the degree to which unproductive thinking has penetrated social science. Yet there is much more to it still. Recently I have also come to a surprising awareness that developmental prerogatives have rather a significant amount in common with spiritual ones. So I would offer broader advice than Michael's of staying clear of hardship. It may be that in that "nadir" something surprising may be discovered. For anyone with a passion "job security" is not a goal, at best it is a means to an ends, at worst it is an obstacle. Over and out. :) Best, Huw On 20 February 2018 at 07:12, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > Huw, Helena, and all, > > thanks to you both for taking the discussion where I was hoping it to go > further: first, towards a reflection on the nature of training academic > scholars go through as it concerns the classical problem of learning > "transfer"; and then, as it regards the question of academic freedom (which > actually may be the same question, just taken in a language more adequate > to an ecological understanding of the problem). This is absolutely not just > an individual problem. And, on that matter, I should be clear that I am a > privileged in a privileged land, where, despite all uncertainty and pains > that my family have gone and go through, I have today a good background and > network, and probably better prospects than the majority of junior scholars > out there. Not that I have earned this privilege for nothing: my migrant > history and that of my family is all connected to an effort and quest to > get better chances of academic opportunity in this market Helena talks > about. But my personal story, as that of the historian in the article > shared or of my French astronomer friend, are relevant in as far as they > help us reflect on just those questions. They really also make one wonder > on the sense of the term "academic freedom", for the latter term cannot be > about doing whatever research you want to do independently of some market > conditions and societal needs and economy. We may then pose the questions, > what type of "freedom" is the "freedom" current systems (of incentives, of > ISI lists) afford, and what type of system could allow for another meaning > of the term "freedom"? > > Not to get too abstract, I guess that those reflections may be best > pondered along concrete cases, if people is willing to take on Helena's > suggestion to share particular stories of all that goes into getting into > secured academic job positions, or else, of pursuing (in)dependent careers > outside/at the borders of/across academia. > > Alfredo > > > ________________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Helena Worthen > Sent: 19 February 2018 19:19 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > In the interests of widening the discussion: > > I?ve described my work history before on this list ? basically, moving > from teaching literature and writing (with stopovers in landscape > architecture and theater production) to concern about the working > conditions of teachers, especially academics in higher education, the 75% > who are contingent/adjuncts. The concern is both for the people employed > this way and for the integrity of the institutions that employ them. I > eventually engaged this concern by working with and for the labor movement, > ending up first working for the garment/apparel workers union in > Philadelphia and then at the Labor Educaiton Program at the U of Illinois, > from which I retired in 2010. > > The new twist to this story is about the employment of academics on > short-term contracts in Viet Nam, under conditions that seem to be > increasingly frequent in the ?developing? world, where the market for > education is booming. University World News http://www. > universityworldnews.com/ tracks this phenomenon and includes occasinal > critical articles about the competition for rankings. The university where > my husband and I have been teaching on and off since 2015, Ton Duc Thang in > Ho Chi Minh City, recruits professors from all over the world with a > promise of $2,000 per month US ? but extending their contracts depends on > producing articles published in journals on the ISI list; the nature of > this list is worth taking a look at. The impact of this practice on the > culture and student body is not all bad. > > My point here is to place the issue of the challenge of getting a > tenure-track job in a global context. This is not just an individual > problem. > > I?m willing to go further down this line of discussion. However, academics > are often reluctant to reveal and compare their working conditions on an > ?academic? discussion list. Maybe by putting up the issue of what academic > freedom requires, and how these requirements fare in the global market for > higher education, we can shed the embarassment of revealing information > about our own experiences with getting the brass ring of a full-time, > secure job. > > Let?s see if anyone picks up on this. Maybe I?m being too vague. > > Helena Worthen > helenaworthen@gmail.com > Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 > Blog US/ Viet Nam: > helenaworthen.wordpress.com > skype: helena.worthen1 > > > > > > > > > On Feb 19, 2018, at 9:19 AM, Huw Lloyd > wrote: > > > > The article describes accumulating large amounts of knowledge pertaining > to > > history, which (the author maintains) cannot be turned to other > endeavours. > > This, no doubt, is true for her. If, however, her approach to studying > > history had been systemic, then there would have been a powerful form of > > re-application and continuity in any work that was turned to. Perhaps the > > same can be said for "phd/postdoc training". If it cannot be reused or > > isn't enabling, what, substantively, is it? > > > > Best, > > Huw > > > > > > On 18 February 2018 at 18:32, Alfredo Jornet Gil > > wrote: > > > >> Really inspiring words and work, Francine. I do see community colleges > and > >> many other educational settings apart from universities as really > valuable > >> and exciting opportunities; the PhD and following postdoc etc training > in > >> universities, however, tend to be very much targeted towards a very > narrow > >> spectrum of positions, or at least that's been my experience. I am very > >> happy that this thread may widen that scope and make visible other > paths. > >> And as Mike suggested, it would be very interesting to hear from several > >> others who have followed distinct trajectories apart from the > >> phd-postdoc-assist/assoc. prof-prof, and yet made a career in touch with > >> most of what was developed in the junior (phd and few later) years. > >> Thanks! > >> Alfredo > >> ________________________________________ > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >> on behalf of Larry Smolucha > >> Sent: 18 February 2018 06:20 > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > >> > >> Message from Francine Smolucha on a scholar's life with or without > academia > >> > >> > >> Alfredo, > >> > >> > >> There are other jobs that pay well (sometimes with tenure and early > >> retirement benefits) - besides professorships at four year colleges and > >> universities. Administrative and support staff positions pay well. And > >> don't overlook community colleges, technical colleges, and public grade > >> schools and high schools. There is also the private sector and > government > >> jobs. > >> > >> > >> As a 'low status' community college professor, I managed to translate > >> Vygotsky's > >> > >> overlooked writings on creativity (back in the 1980's) and introduced > his > >> theory of creativity to academia. I got early retirement at age 53 and > >> continue to write and publish. While my Ph.D from the University of > Chicago > >> gave me academic bona fides, it was the quality of the scholarly work > that > >> ultimately mattered. > >> > >> > >> I was always inspired by the harsh circumstances of Vygotsky's life and > >> how he still kept on writing. > >> > >> [When I felt really sorry for myself, I would actually say "Well at > least > >> I am not coughing up blood"] > >> > >> So many of his works were not published in his lifetime, he did not > >> collect a royalties check, and they say he was depressed at the end > of > >> his life. > >> > >> > >> I leave you with this quote from an ancient Sufi mystic - > >> > >> > >> You can't always get what you want but you can get what you need > >> > >> > >> . > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ________________________________ > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >> on behalf of mike cole > >> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:07 PM > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > >> > >> Yours is a quandary shared by your generation, Alfredo. > >> Being allowed to teach and conduct research in a quality institution is > a > >> great privilege and an > >> increasingly rarer possibility. > >> > >> There are several people on this list who have organized their lives to > be > >> independent scholars > >> while staying connected to the core institutions of disciplinary > training. > >> It might be nice to hear > >> the variety out there. > >> > >> It appears pretty certain that the situation is going to get worse > >> before/if it gets better. > >> > >> What can the collective experience of xmca come up with that would be > >> useful to the many > >> of you caught in this meat grinder? > >> > >> mike > >> > >> > >> > >> On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Good luck then, Wagner! > >>> A > >>> ________________________________________ > >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > >>> on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit > >>> Sent: 18 February 2018 01:07 > >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity > >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > >>> > >>> This just hit me in the spot... > >>> > >>> Wagner > >>> > >>> On Feb 17, 2018 9:48 PM, "Alfredo Jornet Gil" > >> wrote: > >>> > >>>> I have not been able to contribute to this list as much as I'd like to > >>>> lately, among other things, because I need to find a job, and I need > to > >>>> make sure that I have checked all those boxes that selection > committees > >>>> will check (enough first-authored publications? in good enough > >> journals? > >>>> enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? acquiring funds? > >>> more > >>>> than all others candidates? and more than favoured-for-whatever-other- > >>> reasons > >>>> candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these weeks to fill up a > >>>> competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> And, although I did not think that it was particularly well written, > it > >>>> was both relieving and discouraging to read this article (see link > >> below, > >>>> which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague who I think also > >>>> subscribes this list). The article makes visible the pain scholars go > >>>> through when, after so many years of digging and digging and digging a > >>>> little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to leave it and find some > >>> other > >>>> thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer who was moving > >> through > >>>> the world with his lovely family, short-term project after short-term > >>>> project, getting better and better at what he worked on (apparently he > >>> was > >>>> among the few who had expertise in computer modeling simulating some > >>>> astronomic events) , and finally having to step out academia last year > >> to > >>>> find something else to do, for his family no longer could stand the > >>>> constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be me soon. And that may > >>> not > >>>> be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the story seems to be > >>> quite > >>>> endemic to academia and may be interesting to some of you: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Loses-When/242560 > >>>> > >>>> Alfredo > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >> > > From hshonerd@gmail.com Wed Feb 21 07:35:18 2018 From: hshonerd@gmail.com (HENRY SHONERD) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2018 08:35:18 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In-Reply-To: References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> <1518914964416.39650@iped.uio.no> <1518978734957.93647@iped.uio.no> <87FCF1E0-1B28-4F92-A85C-9E5A10424B74@gmail.com> <1519110745104.46827@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: Huw, There is a clarity in what you say that I don?t usually get in reading posts on the chat. Perhaps its the morning walk that I just took on a day after I had one of my usual late-in-life nadirs. I am feeling better today. Most posts on the subject line seem to be addressing problems of those that are trying to get started in academia, but I think it applies to any stage of development. Your post makes that clear to me. Thank you for that. Henry > On Feb 20, 2018, at 1:57 PM, Huw Lloyd wrote: > > Well, I would say there is more to it than simply transfer-ability, which > might be thought of as a good bureaucratic requirement. Really what is > required is genuine development -- reorganisation of thought and learning. > That is what is significant at a personal level, which is also the basis of > insights and creative work (i.e. personal knowledge rather than second hand > knowledge). The researcher in the blog article does not evince this (with > allusions to the nature of her training). There is the history school > children learn, which largely concerns the use of memory, and then there is > the history of conditions, relations and processes, which concerns > protracted thought. This developmental emphasis is what is lacking in > institutions which is why I have frequently pointed it out. > > This principle apples to "secure" jobs too. The jobs I have walked away > from have been due to the overly narrow scope, where I felt it was > necessary to be far more ambitious to achieve modest satisfaction, an > ambition which included achieving the wider scope within the norms > established. Similar issues pertain to my peripheral engagement with > academia. Twenty years ago, after completing a masters in cognitive science > (a good year), I decided against pursuing any further formal education with > any immediacy due to my sense that what I was encountering in the subject > (and related subjects) was fundamentally wrong or inadequate, but I > couldn't quite discern what that was. So, for me, I had no interest in > furthering the academic course at the time, because I was concerned with > understanding, doing, discovering and development, not being a "good > researcher". I was and am uninterested in the trappings of academia, what > it looks like from the outside (with dubious ethics of promoting those in > society who least need it) -- hence I am not too bothered about where the > experiences come from. After all, if you want sound knowledge then it > should be validated in places where it counts (in action), not in an echo > chamber of words. > >> From my (developmental) perspective academia appears to be chockfull of > unproductive thinking. The lack of systems understanding in the social > sciences (which has been pointed out by key persons for two generations) I > find to be quite incredible. This, as far as I can see, is the panacea to > the stasis and lethargy that I have seen in certain institutions, where > there are people in secure jobs with no interest in revitalising an > institution (perhaps the same people who rely upon their status for > authority). In the UK, in the social sciences, the whole social science > infrastructure is built upon a notion of quality that is ignorant of > systems -- that is the degree to which unproductive thinking has penetrated > social science. > > Yet there is much more to it still. Recently I have also come to a > surprising awareness that developmental prerogatives have rather a > significant amount in common with spiritual ones. So I would offer broader > advice than Michael's of staying clear of hardship. It may be that in that > "nadir" something surprising may be discovered. For anyone with a passion > "job security" is not a goal, at best it is a means to an ends, at worst it > is an obstacle. > > Over and out. :) > > Best, > Huw > > On 20 February 2018 at 07:12, Alfredo Jornet Gil > wrote: > >> Huw, Helena, and all, >> >> thanks to you both for taking the discussion where I was hoping it to go >> further: first, towards a reflection on the nature of training academic >> scholars go through as it concerns the classical problem of learning >> "transfer"; and then, as it regards the question of academic freedom (which >> actually may be the same question, just taken in a language more adequate >> to an ecological understanding of the problem). This is absolutely not just >> an individual problem. And, on that matter, I should be clear that I am a >> privileged in a privileged land, where, despite all uncertainty and pains >> that my family have gone and go through, I have today a good background and >> network, and probably better prospects than the majority of junior scholars >> out there. Not that I have earned this privilege for nothing: my migrant >> history and that of my family is all connected to an effort and quest to >> get better chances of academic opportunity in this market Helena talks >> about. But my personal story, as that of the historian in the article >> shared or of my French astronomer friend, are relevant in as far as they >> help us reflect on just those questions. They really also make one wonder >> on the sense of the term "academic freedom", for the latter term cannot be >> about doing whatever research you want to do independently of some market >> conditions and societal needs and economy. We may then pose the questions, >> what type of "freedom" is the "freedom" current systems (of incentives, of >> ISI lists) afford, and what type of system could allow for another meaning >> of the term "freedom"? >> >> Not to get too abstract, I guess that those reflections may be best >> pondered along concrete cases, if people is willing to take on Helena's >> suggestion to share particular stories of all that goes into getting into >> secured academic job positions, or else, of pursuing (in)dependent careers >> outside/at the borders of/across academia. >> >> Alfredo >> >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> on behalf of Helena Worthen >> Sent: 19 February 2018 19:19 >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >> >> In the interests of widening the discussion: >> >> I?ve described my work history before on this list ? basically, moving >> from teaching literature and writing (with stopovers in landscape >> architecture and theater production) to concern about the working >> conditions of teachers, especially academics in higher education, the 75% >> who are contingent/adjuncts. The concern is both for the people employed >> this way and for the integrity of the institutions that employ them. I >> eventually engaged this concern by working with and for the labor movement, >> ending up first working for the garment/apparel workers union in >> Philadelphia and then at the Labor Educaiton Program at the U of Illinois, >> from which I retired in 2010. >> >> The new twist to this story is about the employment of academics on >> short-term contracts in Viet Nam, under conditions that seem to be >> increasingly frequent in the ?developing? world, where the market for >> education is booming. University World News http://www. >> universityworldnews.com/ tracks this phenomenon and includes occasinal >> critical articles about the competition for rankings. The university where >> my husband and I have been teaching on and off since 2015, Ton Duc Thang in >> Ho Chi Minh City, recruits professors from all over the world with a >> promise of $2,000 per month US ? but extending their contracts depends on >> producing articles published in journals on the ISI list; the nature of >> this list is worth taking a look at. The impact of this practice on the >> culture and student body is not all bad. >> >> My point here is to place the issue of the challenge of getting a >> tenure-track job in a global context. This is not just an individual >> problem. >> >> I?m willing to go further down this line of discussion. However, academics >> are often reluctant to reveal and compare their working conditions on an >> ?academic? discussion list. Maybe by putting up the issue of what academic >> freedom requires, and how these requirements fare in the global market for >> higher education, we can shed the embarassment of revealing information >> about our own experiences with getting the brass ring of a full-time, >> secure job. >> >> Let?s see if anyone picks up on this. Maybe I?m being too vague. >> >> Helena Worthen >> helenaworthen@gmail.com >> Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 >> Blog US/ Viet Nam: >> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >> skype: helena.worthen1 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Feb 19, 2018, at 9:19 AM, Huw Lloyd >> wrote: >>> >>> The article describes accumulating large amounts of knowledge pertaining >> to >>> history, which (the author maintains) cannot be turned to other >> endeavours. >>> This, no doubt, is true for her. If, however, her approach to studying >>> history had been systemic, then there would have been a powerful form of >>> re-application and continuity in any work that was turned to. Perhaps the >>> same can be said for "phd/postdoc training". If it cannot be reused or >>> isn't enabling, what, substantively, is it? >>> >>> Best, >>> Huw >>> >>> >>> On 18 February 2018 at 18:32, Alfredo Jornet Gil >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Really inspiring words and work, Francine. I do see community colleges >> and >>>> many other educational settings apart from universities as really >> valuable >>>> and exciting opportunities; the PhD and following postdoc etc training >> in >>>> universities, however, tend to be very much targeted towards a very >> narrow >>>> spectrum of positions, or at least that's been my experience. I am very >>>> happy that this thread may widen that scope and make visible other >> paths. >>>> And as Mike suggested, it would be very interesting to hear from several >>>> others who have followed distinct trajectories apart from the >>>> phd-postdoc-assist/assoc. prof-prof, and yet made a career in touch with >>>> most of what was developed in the junior (phd and few later) years. >>>> Thanks! >>>> Alfredo >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>> on behalf of Larry Smolucha >>>> Sent: 18 February 2018 06:20 >>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>> >>>> Message from Francine Smolucha on a scholar's life with or without >> academia >>>> >>>> >>>> Alfredo, >>>> >>>> >>>> There are other jobs that pay well (sometimes with tenure and early >>>> retirement benefits) - besides professorships at four year colleges and >>>> universities. Administrative and support staff positions pay well. And >>>> don't overlook community colleges, technical colleges, and public grade >>>> schools and high schools. There is also the private sector and >> government >>>> jobs. >>>> >>>> >>>> As a 'low status' community college professor, I managed to translate >>>> Vygotsky's >>>> >>>> overlooked writings on creativity (back in the 1980's) and introduced >> his >>>> theory of creativity to academia. I got early retirement at age 53 and >>>> continue to write and publish. While my Ph.D from the University of >> Chicago >>>> gave me academic bona fides, it was the quality of the scholarly work >> that >>>> ultimately mattered. >>>> >>>> >>>> I was always inspired by the harsh circumstances of Vygotsky's life and >>>> how he still kept on writing. >>>> >>>> [When I felt really sorry for myself, I would actually say "Well at >> least >>>> I am not coughing up blood"] >>>> >>>> So many of his works were not published in his lifetime, he did not >>>> collect a royalties check, and they say he was depressed at the end >> of >>>> his life. >>>> >>>> >>>> I leave you with this quote from an ancient Sufi mystic - >>>> >>>> >>>> You can't always get what you want but you can get what you need >>>> >>>> >>>> . >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________ >>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>> on behalf of mike cole >>>> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:07 PM >>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>> >>>> Yours is a quandary shared by your generation, Alfredo. >>>> Being allowed to teach and conduct research in a quality institution is >> a >>>> great privilege and an >>>> increasingly rarer possibility. >>>> >>>> There are several people on this list who have organized their lives to >> be >>>> independent scholars >>>> while staying connected to the core institutions of disciplinary >> training. >>>> It might be nice to hear >>>> the variety out there. >>>> >>>> It appears pretty certain that the situation is going to get worse >>>> before/if it gets better. >>>> >>>> What can the collective experience of xmca come up with that would be >>>> useful to the many >>>> of you caught in this meat grinder? >>>> >>>> mike >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < >> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Good luck then, Wagner! >>>>> A >>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> >>>>> on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit >>>>> Sent: 18 February 2018 01:07 >>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity >>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>> >>>>> This just hit me in the spot... >>>>> >>>>> Wagner >>>>> >>>>> On Feb 17, 2018 9:48 PM, "Alfredo Jornet Gil" >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I have not been able to contribute to this list as much as I'd like to >>>>>> lately, among other things, because I need to find a job, and I need >> to >>>>>> make sure that I have checked all those boxes that selection >> committees >>>>>> will check (enough first-authored publications? in good enough >>>> journals? >>>>>> enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? acquiring funds? >>>>> more >>>>>> than all others candidates? and more than favoured-for-whatever-other- >>>>> reasons >>>>>> candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these weeks to fill up a >>>>>> competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> And, although I did not think that it was particularly well written, >> it >>>>>> was both relieving and discouraging to read this article (see link >>>> below, >>>>>> which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague who I think also >>>>>> subscribes this list). The article makes visible the pain scholars go >>>>>> through when, after so many years of digging and digging and digging a >>>>>> little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to leave it and find some >>>>> other >>>>>> thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer who was moving >>>> through >>>>>> the world with his lovely family, short-term project after short-term >>>>>> project, getting better and better at what he worked on (apparently he >>>>> was >>>>>> among the few who had expertise in computer modeling simulating some >>>>>> astronomic events) , and finally having to step out academia last year >>>> to >>>>>> find something else to do, for his family no longer could stand the >>>>>> constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be me soon. And that may >>>>> not >>>>>> be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the story seems to be >>>>> quite >>>>>> endemic to academia and may be interesting to some of you: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Loses-When/242560 >>>>>> >>>>>> Alfredo >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >> >> From dkellogg60@gmail.com Fri Feb 23 12:32:35 2018 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2018 05:32:35 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In-Reply-To: References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> <1518914964416.39650@iped.uio.no> <1518978734957.93647@iped.uio.no> <87FCF1E0-1B28-4F92-A85C-9E5A10424B74@gmail.com> <1519110745104.46827@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: Shneideman, who invented a kind of "psychological autopsy" based on the linguistic analysis of suicide notes, remarks that one of the characteristics of depressive thinking is constricted options; this is a characteristic of tenured thinking too. So of course I agree with what has been said concerning geographical mobility as an alternative to social mobility. Japan is currently seeking tenured professors who speak English, because they are reaching the end of their "translate everything" tether in one field after another. A friend of mine without any discernible publication record landed a tenured position in Kazakhstan. Korean universities are being evaluated this year, and one way they deal with this problem is to hire people with reasonably good publication records and offer very substantial financial rewards (as Helen has described) for research incentives. Not too long ago I knew a political economist who published three articles and bought a house back home in Sweden with the money. But there is something to be said for downward mobility as well. William Empson, who lost his Cambridge post when a servant discovered a condom in his personal effects, ended up teaching in China. One of his most famous works was an indignant attack on Thomas Gray's defense of downward mobility. Gray had written: The thoughtless World to majesty may bow Exalt the brave, & idolize Success But more to Innocence their Safety owe Than Power & Genius e'er conspired to bless. Empson argued that this was a way of getting working people to accept downward mobility as they accept the inevitability of death. I think Empson is right as far as the eighteenth century is concerned: the precariat may owe their safety to Innocence, but this Innocence never quite delivered on reasonable food, clothing, and warmth to continue their studies, and so Innocence owes them big time. The situation is a little different today. Innocence owes us food, clothing, and warmth, but not necessarily fame, tenure, and a life of leisured ease. Several people on this list have commented on how poorly written the article on leaving academia was; nowhere more so than where the author tries to convince us that we are losing something important in losing her work. She doesn't actually sound convinced herself. I think it's perfectly all right to pursue something for the fun of it; but that means, almost by definition, that you will work largely without recognition, and often enough without pay as well. Of course, some people do get paid twice and even three times over: fun, recognition, and tenure too. The reason for that is not hard work--hard work is something we all have done--it's just dumb luck. David Kellogg Recent Article in *Mind, Culture, and Activity* 24 (4) 'Metaphoric, Metonymic, Eclectic, or Dialectic? A Commentary on ?Neoformation: A Dialectical Approach to Developmental Change?' Free e-print available (for a short time only) at http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/YAWPBtmPM8knMCNg6sS6/full On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 12:35 AM, HENRY SHONERD wrote: > Huw, > There is a clarity in what you say that I don?t usually get in reading > posts on the chat. Perhaps its the morning walk that I just took on a day > after I had one of my usual late-in-life nadirs. I am feeling better today. > Most posts on the subject line seem to be addressing problems of those that > are trying to get started in academia, but I think it applies to any stage > of development. Your post makes that clear to me. Thank you for that. > Henry > > > > > > On Feb 20, 2018, at 1:57 PM, Huw Lloyd > wrote: > > > > Well, I would say there is more to it than simply transfer-ability, which > > might be thought of as a good bureaucratic requirement. Really what is > > required is genuine development -- reorganisation of thought and > learning. > > That is what is significant at a personal level, which is also the basis > of > > insights and creative work (i.e. personal knowledge rather than second > hand > > knowledge). The researcher in the blog article does not evince this (with > > allusions to the nature of her training). There is the history school > > children learn, which largely concerns the use of memory, and then there > is > > the history of conditions, relations and processes, which concerns > > protracted thought. This developmental emphasis is what is lacking in > > institutions which is why I have frequently pointed it out. > > > > This principle apples to "secure" jobs too. The jobs I have walked away > > from have been due to the overly narrow scope, where I felt it was > > necessary to be far more ambitious to achieve modest satisfaction, an > > ambition which included achieving the wider scope within the norms > > established. Similar issues pertain to my peripheral engagement with > > academia. Twenty years ago, after completing a masters in cognitive > science > > (a good year), I decided against pursuing any further formal education > with > > any immediacy due to my sense that what I was encountering in the subject > > (and related subjects) was fundamentally wrong or inadequate, but I > > couldn't quite discern what that was. So, for me, I had no interest in > > furthering the academic course at the time, because I was concerned with > > understanding, doing, discovering and development, not being a "good > > researcher". I was and am uninterested in the trappings of academia, what > > it looks like from the outside (with dubious ethics of promoting those in > > society who least need it) -- hence I am not too bothered about where the > > experiences come from. After all, if you want sound knowledge then it > > should be validated in places where it counts (in action), not in an echo > > chamber of words. > > > >> From my (developmental) perspective academia appears to be chockfull of > > unproductive thinking. The lack of systems understanding in the social > > sciences (which has been pointed out by key persons for two generations) > I > > find to be quite incredible. This, as far as I can see, is the panacea to > > the stasis and lethargy that I have seen in certain institutions, where > > there are people in secure jobs with no interest in revitalising an > > institution (perhaps the same people who rely upon their status for > > authority). In the UK, in the social sciences, the whole social science > > infrastructure is built upon a notion of quality that is ignorant of > > systems -- that is the degree to which unproductive thinking has > penetrated > > social science. > > > > Yet there is much more to it still. Recently I have also come to a > > surprising awareness that developmental prerogatives have rather a > > significant amount in common with spiritual ones. So I would offer > broader > > advice than Michael's of staying clear of hardship. It may be that in > that > > "nadir" something surprising may be discovered. For anyone with a passion > > "job security" is not a goal, at best it is a means to an ends, at worst > it > > is an obstacle. > > > > Over and out. :) > > > > Best, > > Huw > > > > On 20 February 2018 at 07:12, Alfredo Jornet Gil > > wrote: > > > >> Huw, Helena, and all, > >> > >> thanks to you both for taking the discussion where I was hoping it to go > >> further: first, towards a reflection on the nature of training academic > >> scholars go through as it concerns the classical problem of learning > >> "transfer"; and then, as it regards the question of academic freedom > (which > >> actually may be the same question, just taken in a language more > adequate > >> to an ecological understanding of the problem). This is absolutely not > just > >> an individual problem. And, on that matter, I should be clear that I am > a > >> privileged in a privileged land, where, despite all uncertainty and > pains > >> that my family have gone and go through, I have today a good background > and > >> network, and probably better prospects than the majority of junior > scholars > >> out there. Not that I have earned this privilege for nothing: my migrant > >> history and that of my family is all connected to an effort and quest to > >> get better chances of academic opportunity in this market Helena talks > >> about. But my personal story, as that of the historian in the article > >> shared or of my French astronomer friend, are relevant in as far as they > >> help us reflect on just those questions. They really also make one > wonder > >> on the sense of the term "academic freedom", for the latter term cannot > be > >> about doing whatever research you want to do independently of some > market > >> conditions and societal needs and economy. We may then pose the > questions, > >> what type of "freedom" is the "freedom" current systems (of incentives, > of > >> ISI lists) afford, and what type of system could allow for another > meaning > >> of the term "freedom"? > >> > >> Not to get too abstract, I guess that those reflections may be best > >> pondered along concrete cases, if people is willing to take on Helena's > >> suggestion to share particular stories of all that goes into getting > into > >> secured academic job positions, or else, of pursuing (in)dependent > careers > >> outside/at the borders of/across academia. > >> > >> Alfredo > >> > >> > >> ________________________________________ > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >> on behalf of Helena Worthen > >> Sent: 19 February 2018 19:19 > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > >> > >> In the interests of widening the discussion: > >> > >> I?ve described my work history before on this list ? basically, moving > >> from teaching literature and writing (with stopovers in landscape > >> architecture and theater production) to concern about the working > >> conditions of teachers, especially academics in higher education, the > 75% > >> who are contingent/adjuncts. The concern is both for the people employed > >> this way and for the integrity of the institutions that employ them. I > >> eventually engaged this concern by working with and for the labor > movement, > >> ending up first working for the garment/apparel workers union in > >> Philadelphia and then at the Labor Educaiton Program at the U of > Illinois, > >> from which I retired in 2010. > >> > >> The new twist to this story is about the employment of academics on > >> short-term contracts in Viet Nam, under conditions that seem to be > >> increasingly frequent in the ?developing? world, where the market for > >> education is booming. University World News http://www. > >> universityworldnews.com/ tracks this phenomenon and includes occasinal > >> critical articles about the competition for rankings. The university > where > >> my husband and I have been teaching on and off since 2015, Ton Duc > Thang in > >> Ho Chi Minh City, recruits professors from all over the world with a > >> promise of $2,000 per month US ? but extending their contracts depends > on > >> producing articles published in journals on the ISI list; the nature of > >> this list is worth taking a look at. The impact of this practice on the > >> culture and student body is not all bad. > >> > >> My point here is to place the issue of the challenge of getting a > >> tenure-track job in a global context. This is not just an individual > >> problem. > >> > >> I?m willing to go further down this line of discussion. However, > academics > >> are often reluctant to reveal and compare their working conditions on an > >> ?academic? discussion list. Maybe by putting up the issue of what > academic > >> freedom requires, and how these requirements fare in the global market > for > >> higher education, we can shed the embarassment of revealing information > >> about our own experiences with getting the brass ring of a full-time, > >> secure job. > >> > >> Let?s see if anyone picks up on this. Maybe I?m being too vague. > >> > >> Helena Worthen > >> helenaworthen@gmail.com > >> Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 > >> Blog US/ Viet Nam: > >> helenaworthen.wordpress.com > >> skype: helena.worthen1 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>> On Feb 19, 2018, at 9:19 AM, Huw Lloyd > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> The article describes accumulating large amounts of knowledge > pertaining > >> to > >>> history, which (the author maintains) cannot be turned to other > >> endeavours. > >>> This, no doubt, is true for her. If, however, her approach to studying > >>> history had been systemic, then there would have been a powerful form > of > >>> re-application and continuity in any work that was turned to. Perhaps > the > >>> same can be said for "phd/postdoc training". If it cannot be reused or > >>> isn't enabling, what, substantively, is it? > >>> > >>> Best, > >>> Huw > >>> > >>> > >>> On 18 February 2018 at 18:32, Alfredo Jornet Gil > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Really inspiring words and work, Francine. I do see community colleges > >> and > >>>> many other educational settings apart from universities as really > >> valuable > >>>> and exciting opportunities; the PhD and following postdoc etc training > >> in > >>>> universities, however, tend to be very much targeted towards a very > >> narrow > >>>> spectrum of positions, or at least that's been my experience. I am > very > >>>> happy that this thread may widen that scope and make visible other > >> paths. > >>>> And as Mike suggested, it would be very interesting to hear from > several > >>>> others who have followed distinct trajectories apart from the > >>>> phd-postdoc-assist/assoc. prof-prof, and yet made a career in touch > with > >>>> most of what was developed in the junior (phd and few later) years. > >>>> Thanks! > >>>> Alfredo > >>>> ________________________________________ > >>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu edu> > >>>> on behalf of Larry Smolucha > >>>> Sent: 18 February 2018 06:20 > >>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > >>>> > >>>> Message from Francine Smolucha on a scholar's life with or without > >> academia > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Alfredo, > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> There are other jobs that pay well (sometimes with tenure and early > >>>> retirement benefits) - besides professorships at four year colleges > and > >>>> universities. Administrative and support staff positions pay well. > And > >>>> don't overlook community colleges, technical colleges, and public > grade > >>>> schools and high schools. There is also the private sector and > >> government > >>>> jobs. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> As a 'low status' community college professor, I managed to translate > >>>> Vygotsky's > >>>> > >>>> overlooked writings on creativity (back in the 1980's) and introduced > >> his > >>>> theory of creativity to academia. I got early retirement at age 53 > and > >>>> continue to write and publish. While my Ph.D from the University of > >> Chicago > >>>> gave me academic bona fides, it was the quality of the scholarly work > >> that > >>>> ultimately mattered. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> I was always inspired by the harsh circumstances of Vygotsky's life > and > >>>> how he still kept on writing. > >>>> > >>>> [When I felt really sorry for myself, I would actually say "Well at > >> least > >>>> I am not coughing up blood"] > >>>> > >>>> So many of his works were not published in his lifetime, he did not > >>>> collect a royalties check, and they say he was depressed at the end > >> of > >>>> his life. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> I leave you with this quote from an ancient Sufi mystic - > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> You can't always get what you want but you can get what you need > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> . > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ________________________________ > >>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu edu> > >>>> on behalf of mike cole > >>>> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:07 PM > >>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > >>>> > >>>> Yours is a quandary shared by your generation, Alfredo. > >>>> Being allowed to teach and conduct research in a quality institution > is > >> a > >>>> great privilege and an > >>>> increasingly rarer possibility. > >>>> > >>>> There are several people on this list who have organized their lives > to > >> be > >>>> independent scholars > >>>> while staying connected to the core institutions of disciplinary > >> training. > >>>> It might be nice to hear > >>>> the variety out there. > >>>> > >>>> It appears pretty certain that the situation is going to get worse > >>>> before/if it gets better. > >>>> > >>>> What can the collective experience of xmca come up with that would be > >>>> useful to the many > >>>> of you caught in this meat grinder? > >>>> > >>>> mike > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > >> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Good luck then, Wagner! > >>>>> A > >>>>> ________________________________________ > >>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu edu > >>> > >>>>> on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit > >>>>> Sent: 18 February 2018 01:07 > >>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity > >>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > >>>>> > >>>>> This just hit me in the spot... > >>>>> > >>>>> Wagner > >>>>> > >>>>> On Feb 17, 2018 9:48 PM, "Alfredo Jornet Gil" > >>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> I have not been able to contribute to this list as much as I'd like > to > >>>>>> lately, among other things, because I need to find a job, and I need > >> to > >>>>>> make sure that I have checked all those boxes that selection > >> committees > >>>>>> will check (enough first-authored publications? in good enough > >>>> journals? > >>>>>> enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? acquiring > funds? > >>>>> more > >>>>>> than all others candidates? and more than > favoured-for-whatever-other- > >>>>> reasons > >>>>>> candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these weeks to fill up > a > >>>>>> competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> And, although I did not think that it was particularly well written, > >> it > >>>>>> was both relieving and discouraging to read this article (see link > >>>> below, > >>>>>> which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague who I think also > >>>>>> subscribes this list). The article makes visible the pain scholars > go > >>>>>> through when, after so many years of digging and digging and > digging a > >>>>>> little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to leave it and find > some > >>>>> other > >>>>>> thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer who was moving > >>>> through > >>>>>> the world with his lovely family, short-term project after > short-term > >>>>>> project, getting better and better at what he worked on (apparently > he > >>>>> was > >>>>>> among the few who had expertise in computer modeling simulating some > >>>>>> astronomic events) , and finally having to step out academia last > year > >>>> to > >>>>>> find something else to do, for his family no longer could stand the > >>>>>> constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be me soon. And that > may > >>>>> not > >>>>>> be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the story seems to be > >>>>> quite > >>>>>> endemic to academia and may be interesting to some of you: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Loses-When/242560 > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Alfredo > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >> > >> > > > From mpacker@cantab.net Fri Feb 23 13:11:35 2018 From: mpacker@cantab.net (Martin Packer) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2018 16:11:35 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In-Reply-To: References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> <1518914964416.39650@iped.uio.no> <1518978734957.93647@iped.uio.no> <87FCF1E0-1B28-4F92-A85C-9E5A10424B74@gmail.com> <1519110745104.46827@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: <752E8FD7-3A51-403F-B75E-84895A06E80D@cantab.net> Speaking of geographic mobility? Martin ACADEMIC SEARCH 2018 - PROFESSOR OF PSYCHOLOGY The Department of Psychology at Universidad de los Andes (1st in Colombia, and 8th in Latin-America according to QS University Rankings), invites applications for a full- time professorial position with exclusive dedication, beginning August 2018. Candidates are required to have a doctoral degree, as well as training and/or experience in one of the following areas: Health and Clinical Psychology Social Intervention Educational Psychology. Organizational Psychology. Responsibilities The selected candidate will be expected to: develop research and/or intervention projects in his/her area of expertise and procure external funding; teach at the undergraduate, graduate and extension levels; and participate in the activities and institutional development of the department and university. Further information about the Psychology Department and the Universidad de los Andes can be found at http://psicologia.uniandes.edu.co Academic Requirements ? Completed doctorate in Psychology or related areas. ? Experience in research and/or intervention projects, and publications in scientific journals. ? Teaching experience is desirable, although not a requirement. Position The Department is interested in hiring a candidate in the category of Assistant or Associate Professor. A formal process based on the candidate?s qualifications and following university regulations will determine the salary and the specific category. Salaries and benefits are competitive in the Colombian context (for more information, please contact the department chair). Procedure Please send the following documents to the chair of the Psychology Department (in electronic or print format): 1. Curriculum vitae 2. Copy of relevant publications 3. Certifications of experience in research or intervention projects 4. Contact information of two academic or professional references 5. 3 page (maximum) essay detailing academic trajectory, research and professional interests, as well as possible contributions to the Department of Psychology at Universidad de los Andes 6. A course syllabus in the candidate?s area of expertise fitting the undergraduate program in psychology. Information about the undergraduate program can be found here: http://psicologia.uniandes.edu.co The selection committee includes two Department of Psychology associate professors, the chair of the Department of Psychology, and an associate or full professor at the School of Social Sciences. The committee will ask short-listed candidates to deliver a public presentation about their research and academic perspectives to an audience of students and professors of the department and the university. The Department may declare the call null and void, or keep it open until a person meeting the requirements for the position is identified. Deadline: April 6th, 2018, 11:59pm (local time). Incomplete documents or documents delivered after the deadline will not be considered. Address Please send application to: Diana Maria Agudelo, Chair, Department of Psychology, Universidad de los Andes. dm.agudelo932@uniandes.edu.co > On Feb 23, 2018, at 3:32 PM, David Kellogg wrote: > > Shneideman, who invented a kind of "psychological autopsy" based on the > linguistic analysis of suicide notes, remarks that one of the > characteristics of depressive thinking is constricted options; this is a > characteristic of tenured thinking too. So of course I agree with what has > been said concerning geographical mobility as an alternative to social > mobility. > > Japan is currently seeking tenured professors who speak English, because > they are reaching the end of their "translate everything" tether in one > field after another. A friend of mine without any discernible publication > record landed a tenured position in Kazakhstan. Korean universities are > being evaluated this year, and one way they deal with this problem is to > hire people with reasonably good publication records and offer very > substantial financial rewards (as Helen has described) for research > incentives. Not too long ago I knew a political economist who published > three articles and bought a house back home in Sweden with the money. > > But there is something to be said for downward mobility as well. William > Empson, who lost his Cambridge post when a servant discovered a condom in > his personal effects, ended up teaching in China. One of his most famous > works was an indignant attack on Thomas Gray's defense of downward > mobility. Gray had written: > > The thoughtless World to majesty may bow > Exalt the brave, & idolize Success > But more to Innocence their Safety owe > Than Power & Genius e'er conspired to bless. > > Empson argued that this was a way of getting working people to accept > downward mobility as they accept the inevitability of death. I think Empson > is right as far as the eighteenth century is concerned: the precariat may > owe their safety to Innocence, but this Innocence never quite delivered on > reasonable food, clothing, and warmth to continue their studies, and so > Innocence owes them big time. > > The situation is a little different today. Innocence owes us food, > clothing, and warmth, but not necessarily fame, tenure, and a life of > leisured ease. Several people on this list have commented on how poorly > written the article on leaving academia was; nowhere more so than where the > author tries to convince us that we are losing something important in > losing her work. She doesn't actually sound convinced herself. > > I think it's perfectly all right to pursue something for the fun of it; but > that means, almost by definition, that you will work largely without > recognition, and often enough without pay as well. Of course, some people > do get paid twice and even three times over: fun, recognition, and tenure > too. The reason for that is not hard work--hard work is something we all > have done--it's just dumb luck. > > David Kellogg > > Recent Article in *Mind, Culture, and Activity* 24 (4) 'Metaphoric, > Metonymic, Eclectic, or Dialectic? A Commentary on ?Neoformation: A > Dialectical Approach to Developmental Change?' > > Free e-print available (for a short time only) at > > http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/YAWPBtmPM8knMCNg6sS6/full > > > On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 12:35 AM, HENRY SHONERD wrote: > >> Huw, >> There is a clarity in what you say that I don?t usually get in reading >> posts on the chat. Perhaps its the morning walk that I just took on a day >> after I had one of my usual late-in-life nadirs. I am feeling better today. >> Most posts on the subject line seem to be addressing problems of those that >> are trying to get started in academia, but I think it applies to any stage >> of development. Your post makes that clear to me. Thank you for that. >> Henry >> >> >> >> >>> On Feb 20, 2018, at 1:57 PM, Huw Lloyd >> wrote: >>> >>> Well, I would say there is more to it than simply transfer-ability, which >>> might be thought of as a good bureaucratic requirement. Really what is >>> required is genuine development -- reorganisation of thought and >> learning. >>> That is what is significant at a personal level, which is also the basis >> of >>> insights and creative work (i.e. personal knowledge rather than second >> hand >>> knowledge). The researcher in the blog article does not evince this (with >>> allusions to the nature of her training). There is the history school >>> children learn, which largely concerns the use of memory, and then there >> is >>> the history of conditions, relations and processes, which concerns >>> protracted thought. This developmental emphasis is what is lacking in >>> institutions which is why I have frequently pointed it out. >>> >>> This principle apples to "secure" jobs too. The jobs I have walked away >>> from have been due to the overly narrow scope, where I felt it was >>> necessary to be far more ambitious to achieve modest satisfaction, an >>> ambition which included achieving the wider scope within the norms >>> established. Similar issues pertain to my peripheral engagement with >>> academia. Twenty years ago, after completing a masters in cognitive >> science >>> (a good year), I decided against pursuing any further formal education >> with >>> any immediacy due to my sense that what I was encountering in the subject >>> (and related subjects) was fundamentally wrong or inadequate, but I >>> couldn't quite discern what that was. So, for me, I had no interest in >>> furthering the academic course at the time, because I was concerned with >>> understanding, doing, discovering and development, not being a "good >>> researcher". I was and am uninterested in the trappings of academia, what >>> it looks like from the outside (with dubious ethics of promoting those in >>> society who least need it) -- hence I am not too bothered about where the >>> experiences come from. After all, if you want sound knowledge then it >>> should be validated in places where it counts (in action), not in an echo >>> chamber of words. >>> >>>> From my (developmental) perspective academia appears to be chockfull of >>> unproductive thinking. The lack of systems understanding in the social >>> sciences (which has been pointed out by key persons for two generations) >> I >>> find to be quite incredible. This, as far as I can see, is the panacea to >>> the stasis and lethargy that I have seen in certain institutions, where >>> there are people in secure jobs with no interest in revitalising an >>> institution (perhaps the same people who rely upon their status for >>> authority). In the UK, in the social sciences, the whole social science >>> infrastructure is built upon a notion of quality that is ignorant of >>> systems -- that is the degree to which unproductive thinking has >> penetrated >>> social science. >>> >>> Yet there is much more to it still. Recently I have also come to a >>> surprising awareness that developmental prerogatives have rather a >>> significant amount in common with spiritual ones. So I would offer >> broader >>> advice than Michael's of staying clear of hardship. It may be that in >> that >>> "nadir" something surprising may be discovered. For anyone with a passion >>> "job security" is not a goal, at best it is a means to an ends, at worst >> it >>> is an obstacle. >>> >>> Over and out. :) >>> >>> Best, >>> Huw >>> >>> On 20 February 2018 at 07:12, Alfredo Jornet Gil >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Huw, Helena, and all, >>>> >>>> thanks to you both for taking the discussion where I was hoping it to go >>>> further: first, towards a reflection on the nature of training academic >>>> scholars go through as it concerns the classical problem of learning >>>> "transfer"; and then, as it regards the question of academic freedom >> (which >>>> actually may be the same question, just taken in a language more >> adequate >>>> to an ecological understanding of the problem). This is absolutely not >> just >>>> an individual problem. And, on that matter, I should be clear that I am >> a >>>> privileged in a privileged land, where, despite all uncertainty and >> pains >>>> that my family have gone and go through, I have today a good background >> and >>>> network, and probably better prospects than the majority of junior >> scholars >>>> out there. Not that I have earned this privilege for nothing: my migrant >>>> history and that of my family is all connected to an effort and quest to >>>> get better chances of academic opportunity in this market Helena talks >>>> about. But my personal story, as that of the historian in the article >>>> shared or of my French astronomer friend, are relevant in as far as they >>>> help us reflect on just those questions. They really also make one >> wonder >>>> on the sense of the term "academic freedom", for the latter term cannot >> be >>>> about doing whatever research you want to do independently of some >> market >>>> conditions and societal needs and economy. We may then pose the >> questions, >>>> what type of "freedom" is the "freedom" current systems (of incentives, >> of >>>> ISI lists) afford, and what type of system could allow for another >> meaning >>>> of the term "freedom"? >>>> >>>> Not to get too abstract, I guess that those reflections may be best >>>> pondered along concrete cases, if people is willing to take on Helena's >>>> suggestion to share particular stories of all that goes into getting >> into >>>> secured academic job positions, or else, of pursuing (in)dependent >> careers >>>> outside/at the borders of/across academia. >>>> >>>> Alfredo >>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>> on behalf of Helena Worthen >>>> Sent: 19 February 2018 19:19 >>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>> >>>> In the interests of widening the discussion: >>>> >>>> I?ve described my work history before on this list ? basically, moving >>>> from teaching literature and writing (with stopovers in landscape >>>> architecture and theater production) to concern about the working >>>> conditions of teachers, especially academics in higher education, the >> 75% >>>> who are contingent/adjuncts. The concern is both for the people employed >>>> this way and for the integrity of the institutions that employ them. I >>>> eventually engaged this concern by working with and for the labor >> movement, >>>> ending up first working for the garment/apparel workers union in >>>> Philadelphia and then at the Labor Educaiton Program at the U of >> Illinois, >>>> from which I retired in 2010. >>>> >>>> The new twist to this story is about the employment of academics on >>>> short-term contracts in Viet Nam, under conditions that seem to be >>>> increasingly frequent in the ?developing? world, where the market for >>>> education is booming. University World News http://www. >>>> universityworldnews.com/ tracks this phenomenon and includes occasinal >>>> critical articles about the competition for rankings. The university >> where >>>> my husband and I have been teaching on and off since 2015, Ton Duc >> Thang in >>>> Ho Chi Minh City, recruits professors from all over the world with a >>>> promise of $2,000 per month US ? but extending their contracts depends >> on >>>> producing articles published in journals on the ISI list; the nature of >>>> this list is worth taking a look at. The impact of this practice on the >>>> culture and student body is not all bad. >>>> >>>> My point here is to place the issue of the challenge of getting a >>>> tenure-track job in a global context. This is not just an individual >>>> problem. >>>> >>>> I?m willing to go further down this line of discussion. However, >> academics >>>> are often reluctant to reveal and compare their working conditions on an >>>> ?academic? discussion list. Maybe by putting up the issue of what >> academic >>>> freedom requires, and how these requirements fare in the global market >> for >>>> higher education, we can shed the embarassment of revealing information >>>> about our own experiences with getting the brass ring of a full-time, >>>> secure job. >>>> >>>> Let?s see if anyone picks up on this. Maybe I?m being too vague. >>>> >>>> Helena Worthen >>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com >>>> Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 >>>> Blog US/ Viet Nam: >>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>>> skype: helena.worthen1 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Feb 19, 2018, at 9:19 AM, Huw Lloyd >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> The article describes accumulating large amounts of knowledge >> pertaining >>>> to >>>>> history, which (the author maintains) cannot be turned to other >>>> endeavours. >>>>> This, no doubt, is true for her. If, however, her approach to studying >>>>> history had been systemic, then there would have been a powerful form >> of >>>>> re-application and continuity in any work that was turned to. Perhaps >> the >>>>> same can be said for "phd/postdoc training". If it cannot be reused or >>>>> isn't enabling, what, substantively, is it? >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> Huw >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 18 February 2018 at 18:32, Alfredo Jornet Gil >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Really inspiring words and work, Francine. I do see community colleges >>>> and >>>>>> many other educational settings apart from universities as really >>>> valuable >>>>>> and exciting opportunities; the PhD and following postdoc etc training >>>> in >>>>>> universities, however, tend to be very much targeted towards a very >>>> narrow >>>>>> spectrum of positions, or at least that's been my experience. I am >> very >>>>>> happy that this thread may widen that scope and make visible other >>>> paths. >>>>>> And as Mike suggested, it would be very interesting to hear from >> several >>>>>> others who have followed distinct trajectories apart from the >>>>>> phd-postdoc-assist/assoc. prof-prof, and yet made a career in touch >> with >>>>>> most of what was developed in the junior (phd and few later) years. >>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>> Alfredo >>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > edu> >>>>>> on behalf of Larry Smolucha >>>>>> Sent: 18 February 2018 06:20 >>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>> >>>>>> Message from Francine Smolucha on a scholar's life with or without >>>> academia >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Alfredo, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> There are other jobs that pay well (sometimes with tenure and early >>>>>> retirement benefits) - besides professorships at four year colleges >> and >>>>>> universities. Administrative and support staff positions pay well. >> And >>>>>> don't overlook community colleges, technical colleges, and public >> grade >>>>>> schools and high schools. There is also the private sector and >>>> government >>>>>> jobs. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> As a 'low status' community college professor, I managed to translate >>>>>> Vygotsky's >>>>>> >>>>>> overlooked writings on creativity (back in the 1980's) and introduced >>>> his >>>>>> theory of creativity to academia. I got early retirement at age 53 >> and >>>>>> continue to write and publish. While my Ph.D from the University of >>>> Chicago >>>>>> gave me academic bona fides, it was the quality of the scholarly work >>>> that >>>>>> ultimately mattered. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I was always inspired by the harsh circumstances of Vygotsky's life >> and >>>>>> how he still kept on writing. >>>>>> >>>>>> [When I felt really sorry for myself, I would actually say "Well at >>>> least >>>>>> I am not coughing up blood"] >>>>>> >>>>>> So many of his works were not published in his lifetime, he did not >>>>>> collect a royalties check, and they say he was depressed at the end >>>> of >>>>>> his life. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I leave you with this quote from an ancient Sufi mystic - >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> You can't always get what you want but you can get what you need >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > edu> >>>>>> on behalf of mike cole >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:07 PM >>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>> >>>>>> Yours is a quandary shared by your generation, Alfredo. >>>>>> Being allowed to teach and conduct research in a quality institution >> is >>>> a >>>>>> great privilege and an >>>>>> increasingly rarer possibility. >>>>>> >>>>>> There are several people on this list who have organized their lives >> to >>>> be >>>>>> independent scholars >>>>>> while staying connected to the core institutions of disciplinary >>>> training. >>>>>> It might be nice to hear >>>>>> the variety out there. >>>>>> >>>>>> It appears pretty certain that the situation is going to get worse >>>>>> before/if it gets better. >>>>>> >>>>>> What can the collective experience of xmca come up with that would be >>>>>> useful to the many >>>>>> of you caught in this meat grinder? >>>>>> >>>>>> mike >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < >>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Good luck then, Wagner! >>>>>>> A >>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > edu >>>>> >>>>>>> on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit >>>>>>> Sent: 18 February 2018 01:07 >>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity >>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This just hit me in the spot... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Wagner >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2018 9:48 PM, "Alfredo Jornet Gil" >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have not been able to contribute to this list as much as I'd like >> to >>>>>>>> lately, among other things, because I need to find a job, and I need >>>> to >>>>>>>> make sure that I have checked all those boxes that selection >>>> committees >>>>>>>> will check (enough first-authored publications? in good enough >>>>>> journals? >>>>>>>> enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? acquiring >> funds? >>>>>>> more >>>>>>>> than all others candidates? and more than >> favoured-for-whatever-other- >>>>>>> reasons >>>>>>>> candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these weeks to fill up >> a >>>>>>>> competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And, although I did not think that it was particularly well written, >>>> it >>>>>>>> was both relieving and discouraging to read this article (see link >>>>>> below, >>>>>>>> which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague who I think also >>>>>>>> subscribes this list). The article makes visible the pain scholars >> go >>>>>>>> through when, after so many years of digging and digging and >> digging a >>>>>>>> little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to leave it and find >> some >>>>>>> other >>>>>>>> thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer who was moving >>>>>> through >>>>>>>> the world with his lovely family, short-term project after >> short-term >>>>>>>> project, getting better and better at what he worked on (apparently >> he >>>>>>> was >>>>>>>> among the few who had expertise in computer modeling simulating some >>>>>>>> astronomic events) , and finally having to step out academia last >> year >>>>>> to >>>>>>>> find something else to do, for his family no longer could stand the >>>>>>>> constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be me soon. And that >> may >>>>>>> not >>>>>>>> be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the story seems to be >>>>>>> quite >>>>>>>> endemic to academia and may be interesting to some of you: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Loses-When/242560 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Alfredo >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >> >> >> From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Fri Feb 23 22:28:22 2018 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2018 06:28:22 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In-Reply-To: <752E8FD7-3A51-403F-B75E-84895A06E80D@cantab.net> References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> <1518914964416.39650@iped.uio.no> <1518978734957.93647@iped.uio.no> <87FCF1E0-1B28-4F92-A85C-9E5A10424B74@gmail.com> <1519110745104.46827@iped.uio.no> , <752E8FD7-3A51-403F-B75E-84895A06E80D@cantab.net> Message-ID: <1519453702358.45716@iped.uio.no> Thanks for sharing Martin! Alfredo ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Martin Packer Sent: 23 February 2018 22:11 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship Speaking of geographic mobility? Martin ACADEMIC SEARCH 2018 - PROFESSOR OF PSYCHOLOGY The Department of Psychology at Universidad de los Andes (1st in Colombia, and 8th in Latin-America according to QS University Rankings), invites applications for a full- time professorial position with exclusive dedication, beginning August 2018. Candidates are required to have a doctoral degree, as well as training and/or experience in one of the following areas: Health and Clinical Psychology Social Intervention Educational Psychology. Organizational Psychology. Responsibilities The selected candidate will be expected to: develop research and/or intervention projects in his/her area of expertise and procure external funding; teach at the undergraduate, graduate and extension levels; and participate in the activities and institutional development of the department and university. Further information about the Psychology Department and the Universidad de los Andes can be found at http://psicologia.uniandes.edu.co Academic Requirements ? Completed doctorate in Psychology or related areas. ? Experience in research and/or intervention projects, and publications in scientific journals. ? Teaching experience is desirable, although not a requirement. Position The Department is interested in hiring a candidate in the category of Assistant or Associate Professor. A formal process based on the candidate?s qualifications and following university regulations will determine the salary and the specific category. Salaries and benefits are competitive in the Colombian context (for more information, please contact the department chair). Procedure Please send the following documents to the chair of the Psychology Department (in electronic or print format): 1. Curriculum vitae 2. Copy of relevant publications 3. Certifications of experience in research or intervention projects 4. Contact information of two academic or professional references 5. 3 page (maximum) essay detailing academic trajectory, research and professional interests, as well as possible contributions to the Department of Psychology at Universidad de los Andes 6. A course syllabus in the candidate?s area of expertise fitting the undergraduate program in psychology. Information about the undergraduate program can be found here: http://psicologia.uniandes.edu.co The selection committee includes two Department of Psychology associate professors, the chair of the Department of Psychology, and an associate or full professor at the School of Social Sciences. The committee will ask short-listed candidates to deliver a public presentation about their research and academic perspectives to an audience of students and professors of the department and the university. The Department may declare the call null and void, or keep it open until a person meeting the requirements for the position is identified. Deadline: April 6th, 2018, 11:59pm (local time). Incomplete documents or documents delivered after the deadline will not be considered. Address Please send application to: Diana Maria Agudelo, Chair, Department of Psychology, Universidad de los Andes. dm.agudelo932@uniandes.edu.co > On Feb 23, 2018, at 3:32 PM, David Kellogg wrote: > > Shneideman, who invented a kind of "psychological autopsy" based on the > linguistic analysis of suicide notes, remarks that one of the > characteristics of depressive thinking is constricted options; this is a > characteristic of tenured thinking too. So of course I agree with what has > been said concerning geographical mobility as an alternative to social > mobility. > > Japan is currently seeking tenured professors who speak English, because > they are reaching the end of their "translate everything" tether in one > field after another. A friend of mine without any discernible publication > record landed a tenured position in Kazakhstan. Korean universities are > being evaluated this year, and one way they deal with this problem is to > hire people with reasonably good publication records and offer very > substantial financial rewards (as Helen has described) for research > incentives. Not too long ago I knew a political economist who published > three articles and bought a house back home in Sweden with the money. > > But there is something to be said for downward mobility as well. William > Empson, who lost his Cambridge post when a servant discovered a condom in > his personal effects, ended up teaching in China. One of his most famous > works was an indignant attack on Thomas Gray's defense of downward > mobility. Gray had written: > > The thoughtless World to majesty may bow > Exalt the brave, & idolize Success > But more to Innocence their Safety owe > Than Power & Genius e'er conspired to bless. > > Empson argued that this was a way of getting working people to accept > downward mobility as they accept the inevitability of death. I think Empson > is right as far as the eighteenth century is concerned: the precariat may > owe their safety to Innocence, but this Innocence never quite delivered on > reasonable food, clothing, and warmth to continue their studies, and so > Innocence owes them big time. > > The situation is a little different today. Innocence owes us food, > clothing, and warmth, but not necessarily fame, tenure, and a life of > leisured ease. Several people on this list have commented on how poorly > written the article on leaving academia was; nowhere more so than where the > author tries to convince us that we are losing something important in > losing her work. She doesn't actually sound convinced herself. > > I think it's perfectly all right to pursue something for the fun of it; but > that means, almost by definition, that you will work largely without > recognition, and often enough without pay as well. Of course, some people > do get paid twice and even three times over: fun, recognition, and tenure > too. The reason for that is not hard work--hard work is something we all > have done--it's just dumb luck. > > David Kellogg > > Recent Article in *Mind, Culture, and Activity* 24 (4) 'Metaphoric, > Metonymic, Eclectic, or Dialectic? A Commentary on ?Neoformation: A > Dialectical Approach to Developmental Change?' > > Free e-print available (for a short time only) at > > http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/YAWPBtmPM8knMCNg6sS6/full > > > On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 12:35 AM, HENRY SHONERD wrote: > >> Huw, >> There is a clarity in what you say that I don?t usually get in reading >> posts on the chat. Perhaps its the morning walk that I just took on a day >> after I had one of my usual late-in-life nadirs. I am feeling better today. >> Most posts on the subject line seem to be addressing problems of those that >> are trying to get started in academia, but I think it applies to any stage >> of development. Your post makes that clear to me. Thank you for that. >> Henry >> >> >> >> >>> On Feb 20, 2018, at 1:57 PM, Huw Lloyd >> wrote: >>> >>> Well, I would say there is more to it than simply transfer-ability, which >>> might be thought of as a good bureaucratic requirement. Really what is >>> required is genuine development -- reorganisation of thought and >> learning. >>> That is what is significant at a personal level, which is also the basis >> of >>> insights and creative work (i.e. personal knowledge rather than second >> hand >>> knowledge). The researcher in the blog article does not evince this (with >>> allusions to the nature of her training). There is the history school >>> children learn, which largely concerns the use of memory, and then there >> is >>> the history of conditions, relations and processes, which concerns >>> protracted thought. This developmental emphasis is what is lacking in >>> institutions which is why I have frequently pointed it out. >>> >>> This principle apples to "secure" jobs too. The jobs I have walked away >>> from have been due to the overly narrow scope, where I felt it was >>> necessary to be far more ambitious to achieve modest satisfaction, an >>> ambition which included achieving the wider scope within the norms >>> established. Similar issues pertain to my peripheral engagement with >>> academia. Twenty years ago, after completing a masters in cognitive >> science >>> (a good year), I decided against pursuing any further formal education >> with >>> any immediacy due to my sense that what I was encountering in the subject >>> (and related subjects) was fundamentally wrong or inadequate, but I >>> couldn't quite discern what that was. So, for me, I had no interest in >>> furthering the academic course at the time, because I was concerned with >>> understanding, doing, discovering and development, not being a "good >>> researcher". I was and am uninterested in the trappings of academia, what >>> it looks like from the outside (with dubious ethics of promoting those in >>> society who least need it) -- hence I am not too bothered about where the >>> experiences come from. After all, if you want sound knowledge then it >>> should be validated in places where it counts (in action), not in an echo >>> chamber of words. >>> >>>> From my (developmental) perspective academia appears to be chockfull of >>> unproductive thinking. The lack of systems understanding in the social >>> sciences (which has been pointed out by key persons for two generations) >> I >>> find to be quite incredible. This, as far as I can see, is the panacea to >>> the stasis and lethargy that I have seen in certain institutions, where >>> there are people in secure jobs with no interest in revitalising an >>> institution (perhaps the same people who rely upon their status for >>> authority). In the UK, in the social sciences, the whole social science >>> infrastructure is built upon a notion of quality that is ignorant of >>> systems -- that is the degree to which unproductive thinking has >> penetrated >>> social science. >>> >>> Yet there is much more to it still. Recently I have also come to a >>> surprising awareness that developmental prerogatives have rather a >>> significant amount in common with spiritual ones. So I would offer >> broader >>> advice than Michael's of staying clear of hardship. It may be that in >> that >>> "nadir" something surprising may be discovered. For anyone with a passion >>> "job security" is not a goal, at best it is a means to an ends, at worst >> it >>> is an obstacle. >>> >>> Over and out. :) >>> >>> Best, >>> Huw >>> >>> On 20 February 2018 at 07:12, Alfredo Jornet Gil >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Huw, Helena, and all, >>>> >>>> thanks to you both for taking the discussion where I was hoping it to go >>>> further: first, towards a reflection on the nature of training academic >>>> scholars go through as it concerns the classical problem of learning >>>> "transfer"; and then, as it regards the question of academic freedom >> (which >>>> actually may be the same question, just taken in a language more >> adequate >>>> to an ecological understanding of the problem). This is absolutely not >> just >>>> an individual problem. And, on that matter, I should be clear that I am >> a >>>> privileged in a privileged land, where, despite all uncertainty and >> pains >>>> that my family have gone and go through, I have today a good background >> and >>>> network, and probably better prospects than the majority of junior >> scholars >>>> out there. Not that I have earned this privilege for nothing: my migrant >>>> history and that of my family is all connected to an effort and quest to >>>> get better chances of academic opportunity in this market Helena talks >>>> about. But my personal story, as that of the historian in the article >>>> shared or of my French astronomer friend, are relevant in as far as they >>>> help us reflect on just those questions. They really also make one >> wonder >>>> on the sense of the term "academic freedom", for the latter term cannot >> be >>>> about doing whatever research you want to do independently of some >> market >>>> conditions and societal needs and economy. We may then pose the >> questions, >>>> what type of "freedom" is the "freedom" current systems (of incentives, >> of >>>> ISI lists) afford, and what type of system could allow for another >> meaning >>>> of the term "freedom"? >>>> >>>> Not to get too abstract, I guess that those reflections may be best >>>> pondered along concrete cases, if people is willing to take on Helena's >>>> suggestion to share particular stories of all that goes into getting >> into >>>> secured academic job positions, or else, of pursuing (in)dependent >> careers >>>> outside/at the borders of/across academia. >>>> >>>> Alfredo >>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>> on behalf of Helena Worthen >>>> Sent: 19 February 2018 19:19 >>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>> >>>> In the interests of widening the discussion: >>>> >>>> I?ve described my work history before on this list ? basically, moving >>>> from teaching literature and writing (with stopovers in landscape >>>> architecture and theater production) to concern about the working >>>> conditions of teachers, especially academics in higher education, the >> 75% >>>> who are contingent/adjuncts. The concern is both for the people employed >>>> this way and for the integrity of the institutions that employ them. I >>>> eventually engaged this concern by working with and for the labor >> movement, >>>> ending up first working for the garment/apparel workers union in >>>> Philadelphia and then at the Labor Educaiton Program at the U of >> Illinois, >>>> from which I retired in 2010. >>>> >>>> The new twist to this story is about the employment of academics on >>>> short-term contracts in Viet Nam, under conditions that seem to be >>>> increasingly frequent in the ?developing? world, where the market for >>>> education is booming. University World News http://www. >>>> universityworldnews.com/ tracks this phenomenon and includes occasinal >>>> critical articles about the competition for rankings. The university >> where >>>> my husband and I have been teaching on and off since 2015, Ton Duc >> Thang in >>>> Ho Chi Minh City, recruits professors from all over the world with a >>>> promise of $2,000 per month US ? but extending their contracts depends >> on >>>> producing articles published in journals on the ISI list; the nature of >>>> this list is worth taking a look at. The impact of this practice on the >>>> culture and student body is not all bad. >>>> >>>> My point here is to place the issue of the challenge of getting a >>>> tenure-track job in a global context. This is not just an individual >>>> problem. >>>> >>>> I?m willing to go further down this line of discussion. However, >> academics >>>> are often reluctant to reveal and compare their working conditions on an >>>> ?academic? discussion list. Maybe by putting up the issue of what >> academic >>>> freedom requires, and how these requirements fare in the global market >> for >>>> higher education, we can shed the embarassment of revealing information >>>> about our own experiences with getting the brass ring of a full-time, >>>> secure job. >>>> >>>> Let?s see if anyone picks up on this. Maybe I?m being too vague. >>>> >>>> Helena Worthen >>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com >>>> Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 >>>> Blog US/ Viet Nam: >>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>>> skype: helena.worthen1 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Feb 19, 2018, at 9:19 AM, Huw Lloyd >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> The article describes accumulating large amounts of knowledge >> pertaining >>>> to >>>>> history, which (the author maintains) cannot be turned to other >>>> endeavours. >>>>> This, no doubt, is true for her. If, however, her approach to studying >>>>> history had been systemic, then there would have been a powerful form >> of >>>>> re-application and continuity in any work that was turned to. Perhaps >> the >>>>> same can be said for "phd/postdoc training". If it cannot be reused or >>>>> isn't enabling, what, substantively, is it? >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> Huw >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 18 February 2018 at 18:32, Alfredo Jornet Gil >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Really inspiring words and work, Francine. I do see community colleges >>>> and >>>>>> many other educational settings apart from universities as really >>>> valuable >>>>>> and exciting opportunities; the PhD and following postdoc etc training >>>> in >>>>>> universities, however, tend to be very much targeted towards a very >>>> narrow >>>>>> spectrum of positions, or at least that's been my experience. I am >> very >>>>>> happy that this thread may widen that scope and make visible other >>>> paths. >>>>>> And as Mike suggested, it would be very interesting to hear from >> several >>>>>> others who have followed distinct trajectories apart from the >>>>>> phd-postdoc-assist/assoc. prof-prof, and yet made a career in touch >> with >>>>>> most of what was developed in the junior (phd and few later) years. >>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>> Alfredo >>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > edu> >>>>>> on behalf of Larry Smolucha >>>>>> Sent: 18 February 2018 06:20 >>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>> >>>>>> Message from Francine Smolucha on a scholar's life with or without >>>> academia >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Alfredo, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> There are other jobs that pay well (sometimes with tenure and early >>>>>> retirement benefits) - besides professorships at four year colleges >> and >>>>>> universities. Administrative and support staff positions pay well. >> And >>>>>> don't overlook community colleges, technical colleges, and public >> grade >>>>>> schools and high schools. There is also the private sector and >>>> government >>>>>> jobs. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> As a 'low status' community college professor, I managed to translate >>>>>> Vygotsky's >>>>>> >>>>>> overlooked writings on creativity (back in the 1980's) and introduced >>>> his >>>>>> theory of creativity to academia. I got early retirement at age 53 >> and >>>>>> continue to write and publish. While my Ph.D from the University of >>>> Chicago >>>>>> gave me academic bona fides, it was the quality of the scholarly work >>>> that >>>>>> ultimately mattered. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I was always inspired by the harsh circumstances of Vygotsky's life >> and >>>>>> how he still kept on writing. >>>>>> >>>>>> [When I felt really sorry for myself, I would actually say "Well at >>>> least >>>>>> I am not coughing up blood"] >>>>>> >>>>>> So many of his works were not published in his lifetime, he did not >>>>>> collect a royalties check, and they say he was depressed at the end >>>> of >>>>>> his life. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I leave you with this quote from an ancient Sufi mystic - >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> You can't always get what you want but you can get what you need >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > edu> >>>>>> on behalf of mike cole >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:07 PM >>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>> >>>>>> Yours is a quandary shared by your generation, Alfredo. >>>>>> Being allowed to teach and conduct research in a quality institution >> is >>>> a >>>>>> great privilege and an >>>>>> increasingly rarer possibility. >>>>>> >>>>>> There are several people on this list who have organized their lives >> to >>>> be >>>>>> independent scholars >>>>>> while staying connected to the core institutions of disciplinary >>>> training. >>>>>> It might be nice to hear >>>>>> the variety out there. >>>>>> >>>>>> It appears pretty certain that the situation is going to get worse >>>>>> before/if it gets better. >>>>>> >>>>>> What can the collective experience of xmca come up with that would be >>>>>> useful to the many >>>>>> of you caught in this meat grinder? >>>>>> >>>>>> mike >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < >>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Good luck then, Wagner! >>>>>>> A >>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > edu >>>>> >>>>>>> on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit >>>>>>> Sent: 18 February 2018 01:07 >>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity >>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This just hit me in the spot... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Wagner >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2018 9:48 PM, "Alfredo Jornet Gil" >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have not been able to contribute to this list as much as I'd like >> to >>>>>>>> lately, among other things, because I need to find a job, and I need >>>> to >>>>>>>> make sure that I have checked all those boxes that selection >>>> committees >>>>>>>> will check (enough first-authored publications? in good enough >>>>>> journals? >>>>>>>> enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? acquiring >> funds? >>>>>>> more >>>>>>>> than all others candidates? and more than >> favoured-for-whatever-other- >>>>>>> reasons >>>>>>>> candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these weeks to fill up >> a >>>>>>>> competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And, although I did not think that it was particularly well written, >>>> it >>>>>>>> was both relieving and discouraging to read this article (see link >>>>>> below, >>>>>>>> which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague who I think also >>>>>>>> subscribes this list). The article makes visible the pain scholars >> go >>>>>>>> through when, after so many years of digging and digging and >> digging a >>>>>>>> little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to leave it and find >> some >>>>>>> other >>>>>>>> thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer who was moving >>>>>> through >>>>>>>> the world with his lovely family, short-term project after >> short-term >>>>>>>> project, getting better and better at what he worked on (apparently >> he >>>>>>> was >>>>>>>> among the few who had expertise in computer modeling simulating some >>>>>>>> astronomic events) , and finally having to step out academia last >> year >>>>>> to >>>>>>>> find something else to do, for his family no longer could stand the >>>>>>>> constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be me soon. And that >> may >>>>>>> not >>>>>>>> be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the story seems to be >>>>>>> quite >>>>>>>> endemic to academia and may be interesting to some of you: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Loses-When/242560 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Alfredo >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >> >> >> From greg.a.thompson@gmail.com Sat Feb 24 08:45:39 2018 From: greg.a.thompson@gmail.com (Greg Thompson) Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2018 09:45:39 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In-Reply-To: References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> <1518914964416.39650@iped.uio.no> <1518978734957.93647@iped.uio.no> <87FCF1E0-1B28-4F92-A85C-9E5A10424B74@gmail.com> <1519110745104.46827@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: I appreciate Huw's concern about academia and the push to orient to a broader and more systemic concern with "development". I think that this is what institutions of higher education are supposed to have, right? - at the very least a concern for the development of individual "students", but also, one would hope, a concern for "development" at a longer timescale (e.g., how to be a better society, a better world). They certainly tout these in their promo materials. And yet, in practice, these institutions often fall back on bureaucratic or economic logics. Bureaucratic logic goes something like, "just publish (in "good" (i.e., high impact factor) journals), who cares what you publish so long as we can count it to determine its (and your) 'value'(!)". As for the economic logic, I was just talking with Rick Shweder the other day about this issue and he expressed the concern about the push towards STEM education at the expense of all else and the way that STEM buildings are slowly starting to take over his campus (the University of Chicago - a place that was long held to be a hold out of liberal arts education - apparently they now have an engineering program). He suggested that this is tied to an early 80's court decision that gave universities ownership of patents developed on their campuses. To my mind, this calls to mind a concern with ecologies of development (across the shorter and longer timescales). What are the ecologies (social, economic, political, etc.) within which development (at these various timescales) occurs in our world today? This is really a question of what is possible and/or what is likely with regard to becoming. What are the forms of life and forms of development that are sustainable given the larger ecologies in which that development happens? And for thinking through that problem, I've had a hard time thinking of anyone who has better thought through this problem than Marx - at the longer timescale of development, that is (Vygotsky would, of course, be better at thinking through development at the shorter timescale of ontogeny). I'd love to hear others' thoughts on those who have studied activities that can begin to shed light on these ecologies of development (particularly at the longer timescale). Any thoughts/suggestions? I would imagine this work considering various kinds of institutions that run the gamut - from venture capitalist firms to non-profits to governmental institutions to institutions of higher education. I would presume that each of these kinds of institutions would have a local ecology within which they work, but I am tempted to imagine some kind of global meta-ecology (perhaps Marx's "global capitalism"?) within which each of these local ecologies operates. I'd be curious about actual research that has been done documenting the nature of these ecologies - e.g., what kinds of resources are available to be exploited? What kinds of possibilities are there for different forms of life? What institutional organisms can thrive? Which are dying off? (and just to be clear, I am intending a biological/evolutionary nature of the metaphor). It seems that this kind of work would be most likely to have been done by folks in the CHAT world, but perhaps the scale (of time and space) is a bit beyond the scales that CHAT folks prefer to consider? (I should add that I've recently discovered the work of Peter Sloterdijk's Bubbles trilogy and am curious if anyone has any thoughts on the value of his approach - it seems to fit very well with Marx and with CHAT/Vygotsky, my only initial concern was that he seems to fly a little fast and loose with pyschoanalytics at times - not a serious problem, but perhaps in a few places). Sympathetically, greg On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 1:57 PM, Huw Lloyd wrote: > Well, I would say there is more to it than simply transfer-ability, which > might be thought of as a good bureaucratic requirement. Really what is > required is genuine development -- reorganisation of thought and learning. > That is what is significant at a personal level, which is also the basis of > insights and creative work (i.e. personal knowledge rather than second hand > knowledge). The researcher in the blog article does not evince this (with > allusions to the nature of her training). There is the history school > children learn, which largely concerns the use of memory, and then there is > the history of conditions, relations and processes, which concerns > protracted thought. This developmental emphasis is what is lacking in > institutions which is why I have frequently pointed it out. > > This principle apples to "secure" jobs too. The jobs I have walked away > from have been due to the overly narrow scope, where I felt it was > necessary to be far more ambitious to achieve modest satisfaction, an > ambition which included achieving the wider scope within the norms > established. Similar issues pertain to my peripheral engagement with > academia. Twenty years ago, after completing a masters in cognitive science > (a good year), I decided against pursuing any further formal education with > any immediacy due to my sense that what I was encountering in the subject > (and related subjects) was fundamentally wrong or inadequate, but I > couldn't quite discern what that was. So, for me, I had no interest in > furthering the academic course at the time, because I was concerned with > understanding, doing, discovering and development, not being a "good > researcher". I was and am uninterested in the trappings of academia, what > it looks like from the outside (with dubious ethics of promoting those in > society who least need it) -- hence I am not too bothered about where the > experiences come from. After all, if you want sound knowledge then it > should be validated in places where it counts (in action), not in an echo > chamber of words. > > >From my (developmental) perspective academia appears to be chockfull of > unproductive thinking. The lack of systems understanding in the social > sciences (which has been pointed out by key persons for two generations) I > find to be quite incredible. This, as far as I can see, is the panacea to > the stasis and lethargy that I have seen in certain institutions, where > there are people in secure jobs with no interest in revitalising an > institution (perhaps the same people who rely upon their status for > authority). In the UK, in the social sciences, the whole social science > infrastructure is built upon a notion of quality that is ignorant of > systems -- that is the degree to which unproductive thinking has penetrated > social science. > > Yet there is much more to it still. Recently I have also come to a > surprising awareness that developmental prerogatives have rather a > significant amount in common with spiritual ones. So I would offer broader > advice than Michael's of staying clear of hardship. It may be that in that > "nadir" something surprising may be discovered. For anyone with a passion > "job security" is not a goal, at best it is a means to an ends, at worst it > is an obstacle. > > Over and out. :) > > Best, > Huw > > On 20 February 2018 at 07:12, Alfredo Jornet Gil > wrote: > > > Huw, Helena, and all, > > > > thanks to you both for taking the discussion where I was hoping it to go > > further: first, towards a reflection on the nature of training academic > > scholars go through as it concerns the classical problem of learning > > "transfer"; and then, as it regards the question of academic freedom > (which > > actually may be the same question, just taken in a language more adequate > > to an ecological understanding of the problem). This is absolutely not > just > > an individual problem. And, on that matter, I should be clear that I am a > > privileged in a privileged land, where, despite all uncertainty and pains > > that my family have gone and go through, I have today a good background > and > > network, and probably better prospects than the majority of junior > scholars > > out there. Not that I have earned this privilege for nothing: my migrant > > history and that of my family is all connected to an effort and quest to > > get better chances of academic opportunity in this market Helena talks > > about. But my personal story, as that of the historian in the article > > shared or of my French astronomer friend, are relevant in as far as they > > help us reflect on just those questions. They really also make one wonder > > on the sense of the term "academic freedom", for the latter term cannot > be > > about doing whatever research you want to do independently of some market > > conditions and societal needs and economy. We may then pose the > questions, > > what type of "freedom" is the "freedom" current systems (of incentives, > of > > ISI lists) afford, and what type of system could allow for another > meaning > > of the term "freedom"? > > > > Not to get too abstract, I guess that those reflections may be best > > pondered along concrete cases, if people is willing to take on Helena's > > suggestion to share particular stories of all that goes into getting into > > secured academic job positions, or else, of pursuing (in)dependent > careers > > outside/at the borders of/across academia. > > > > Alfredo > > > > > > ________________________________________ > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > on behalf of Helena Worthen > > Sent: 19 February 2018 19:19 > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > In the interests of widening the discussion: > > > > I?ve described my work history before on this list ? basically, moving > > from teaching literature and writing (with stopovers in landscape > > architecture and theater production) to concern about the working > > conditions of teachers, especially academics in higher education, the 75% > > who are contingent/adjuncts. The concern is both for the people employed > > this way and for the integrity of the institutions that employ them. I > > eventually engaged this concern by working with and for the labor > movement, > > ending up first working for the garment/apparel workers union in > > Philadelphia and then at the Labor Educaiton Program at the U of > Illinois, > > from which I retired in 2010. > > > > The new twist to this story is about the employment of academics on > > short-term contracts in Viet Nam, under conditions that seem to be > > increasingly frequent in the ?developing? world, where the market for > > education is booming. University World News http://www. > > universityworldnews.com/ tracks this phenomenon and includes occasinal > > critical articles about the competition for rankings. The university > where > > my husband and I have been teaching on and off since 2015, Ton Duc Thang > in > > Ho Chi Minh City, recruits professors from all over the world with a > > promise of $2,000 per month US ? but extending their contracts depends on > > producing articles published in journals on the ISI list; the nature of > > this list is worth taking a look at. The impact of this practice on the > > culture and student body is not all bad. > > > > My point here is to place the issue of the challenge of getting a > > tenure-track job in a global context. This is not just an individual > > problem. > > > > I?m willing to go further down this line of discussion. However, > academics > > are often reluctant to reveal and compare their working conditions on an > > ?academic? discussion list. Maybe by putting up the issue of what > academic > > freedom requires, and how these requirements fare in the global market > for > > higher education, we can shed the embarassment of revealing information > > about our own experiences with getting the brass ring of a full-time, > > secure job. > > > > Let?s see if anyone picks up on this. Maybe I?m being too vague. > > > > Helena Worthen > > helenaworthen@gmail.com > > Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 > > Blog US/ Viet Nam: > > helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > skype: helena.worthen1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 19, 2018, at 9:19 AM, Huw Lloyd > > wrote: > > > > > > The article describes accumulating large amounts of knowledge > pertaining > > to > > > history, which (the author maintains) cannot be turned to other > > endeavours. > > > This, no doubt, is true for her. If, however, her approach to studying > > > history had been systemic, then there would have been a powerful form > of > > > re-application and continuity in any work that was turned to. Perhaps > the > > > same can be said for "phd/postdoc training". If it cannot be reused or > > > isn't enabling, what, substantively, is it? > > > > > > Best, > > > Huw > > > > > > > > > On 18 February 2018 at 18:32, Alfredo Jornet Gil > > > wrote: > > > > > >> Really inspiring words and work, Francine. I do see community colleges > > and > > >> many other educational settings apart from universities as really > > valuable > > >> and exciting opportunities; the PhD and following postdoc etc training > > in > > >> universities, however, tend to be very much targeted towards a very > > narrow > > >> spectrum of positions, or at least that's been my experience. I am > very > > >> happy that this thread may widen that scope and make visible other > > paths. > > >> And as Mike suggested, it would be very interesting to hear from > several > > >> others who have followed distinct trajectories apart from the > > >> phd-postdoc-assist/assoc. prof-prof, and yet made a career in touch > with > > >> most of what was developed in the junior (phd and few later) years. > > >> Thanks! > > >> Alfredo > > >> ________________________________________ > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu edu> > > >> on behalf of Larry Smolucha > > >> Sent: 18 February 2018 06:20 > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > >> > > >> Message from Francine Smolucha on a scholar's life with or without > > academia > > >> > > >> > > >> Alfredo, > > >> > > >> > > >> There are other jobs that pay well (sometimes with tenure and early > > >> retirement benefits) - besides professorships at four year colleges > and > > >> universities. Administrative and support staff positions pay well. > And > > >> don't overlook community colleges, technical colleges, and public > grade > > >> schools and high schools. There is also the private sector and > > government > > >> jobs. > > >> > > >> > > >> As a 'low status' community college professor, I managed to translate > > >> Vygotsky's > > >> > > >> overlooked writings on creativity (back in the 1980's) and introduced > > his > > >> theory of creativity to academia. I got early retirement at age 53 > and > > >> continue to write and publish. While my Ph.D from the University of > > Chicago > > >> gave me academic bona fides, it was the quality of the scholarly work > > that > > >> ultimately mattered. > > >> > > >> > > >> I was always inspired by the harsh circumstances of Vygotsky's life > and > > >> how he still kept on writing. > > >> > > >> [When I felt really sorry for myself, I would actually say "Well at > > least > > >> I am not coughing up blood"] > > >> > > >> So many of his works were not published in his lifetime, he did not > > >> collect a royalties check, and they say he was depressed at the end > > of > > >> his life. > > >> > > >> > > >> I leave you with this quote from an ancient Sufi mystic - > > >> > > >> > > >> You can't always get what you want but you can get what you need > > >> > > >> > > >> . > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> ________________________________ > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu edu> > > >> on behalf of mike cole > > >> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:07 PM > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > >> > > >> Yours is a quandary shared by your generation, Alfredo. > > >> Being allowed to teach and conduct research in a quality institution > is > > a > > >> great privilege and an > > >> increasingly rarer possibility. > > >> > > >> There are several people on this list who have organized their lives > to > > be > > >> independent scholars > > >> while staying connected to the core institutions of disciplinary > > training. > > >> It might be nice to hear > > >> the variety out there. > > >> > > >> It appears pretty certain that the situation is going to get worse > > >> before/if it gets better. > > >> > > >> What can the collective experience of xmca come up with that would be > > >> useful to the many > > >> of you caught in this meat grinder? > > >> > > >> mike > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >>> Good luck then, Wagner! > > >>> A > > >>> ________________________________________ > > >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu edu > > > > > >>> on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit > > >>> Sent: 18 February 2018 01:07 > > >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity > > >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > >>> > > >>> This just hit me in the spot... > > >>> > > >>> Wagner > > >>> > > >>> On Feb 17, 2018 9:48 PM, "Alfredo Jornet Gil" > > >> wrote: > > >>> > > >>>> I have not been able to contribute to this list as much as I'd like > to > > >>>> lately, among other things, because I need to find a job, and I need > > to > > >>>> make sure that I have checked all those boxes that selection > > committees > > >>>> will check (enough first-authored publications? in good enough > > >> journals? > > >>>> enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? acquiring > funds? > > >>> more > > >>>> than all others candidates? and more than > favoured-for-whatever-other- > > >>> reasons > > >>>> candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these weeks to fill up > a > > >>>> competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> And, although I did not think that it was particularly well written, > > it > > >>>> was both relieving and discouraging to read this article (see link > > >> below, > > >>>> which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague who I think also > > >>>> subscribes this list). The article makes visible the pain scholars > go > > >>>> through when, after so many years of digging and digging and > digging a > > >>>> little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to leave it and find > some > > >>> other > > >>>> thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer who was moving > > >> through > > >>>> the world with his lovely family, short-term project after > short-term > > >>>> project, getting better and better at what he worked on (apparently > he > > >>> was > > >>>> among the few who had expertise in computer modeling simulating some > > >>>> astronomic events) , and finally having to step out academia last > year > > >> to > > >>>> find something else to do, for his family no longer could stand the > > >>>> constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be me soon. And that > may > > >>> not > > >>>> be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the story seems to be > > >>> quite > > >>>> endemic to academia and may be interesting to some of you: > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Loses-When/242560 > > >>>> > > >>>> Alfredo > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > > > > -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Sun Feb 25 14:39:58 2018 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2018 22:39:58 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In-Reply-To: References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> <1518914964416.39650@iped.uio.no> <1518978734957.93647@iped.uio.no> <87FCF1E0-1B28-4F92-A85C-9E5A10424B74@gmail.com> <1519110745104.46827@iped.uio.no> , Message-ID: <1519598399026.36406@iped.uio.no> Greg, Huw, and others, I do often get worried that in the formals and informal meetings at our department (department of education), conversations tend to focus on the "micro" developments that you mention (students, grades, getting a next grant, getting that paper published, making sure you've got enough) most of the time, and not so much on what society we would like to have, and how our institution could/should contribute to that. I do not have any suggestions on the type of studies that you ask about?dealing with how ecologies of scholarship in academia lead to given developmental dynamics?other than the classical studies in STS, like Latour & Woolgar's on laboratory life, or S. L. Star's. But when I look forward at what lies between me (or anyone in my institution) and a change in the way this institution has impact in the life of many, what I see is lots of routines, habits, documents, and paperwork entangled in the middle, such that the idea "mediation all the way through" makes all the sense. And seeing things that way (from the ecological perspective), makes the possibility of changing things to look actually feasible, or more accurately perhaps, imagine-able. I'd like to continue being part of the ecology to be able to be also be part of its changing it. I hope others will bring more specific literature to bear. I am already downloading some of Peter Sloterdijk's to read. Alfredo ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Greg Thompson Sent: 24 February 2018 17:45 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship I appreciate Huw's concern about academia and the push to orient to a broader and more systemic concern with "development". I think that this is what institutions of higher education are supposed to have, right? - at the very least a concern for the development of individual "students", but also, one would hope, a concern for "development" at a longer timescale (e.g., how to be a better society, a better world). They certainly tout these in their promo materials. And yet, in practice, these institutions often fall back on bureaucratic or economic logics. Bureaucratic logic goes something like, "just publish (in "good" (i.e., high impact factor) journals), who cares what you publish so long as we can count it to determine its (and your) 'value'(!)". As for the economic logic, I was just talking with Rick Shweder the other day about this issue and he expressed the concern about the push towards STEM education at the expense of all else and the way that STEM buildings are slowly starting to take over his campus (the University of Chicago - a place that was long held to be a hold out of liberal arts education - apparently they now have an engineering program). He suggested that this is tied to an early 80's court decision that gave universities ownership of patents developed on their campuses. To my mind, this calls to mind a concern with ecologies of development (across the shorter and longer timescales). What are the ecologies (social, economic, political, etc.) within which development (at these various timescales) occurs in our world today? This is really a question of what is possible and/or what is likely with regard to becoming. What are the forms of life and forms of development that are sustainable given the larger ecologies in which that development happens? And for thinking through that problem, I've had a hard time thinking of anyone who has better thought through this problem than Marx - at the longer timescale of development, that is (Vygotsky would, of course, be better at thinking through development at the shorter timescale of ontogeny). I'd love to hear others' thoughts on those who have studied activities that can begin to shed light on these ecologies of development (particularly at the longer timescale). Any thoughts/suggestions? I would imagine this work considering various kinds of institutions that run the gamut - from venture capitalist firms to non-profits to governmental institutions to institutions of higher education. I would presume that each of these kinds of institutions would have a local ecology within which they work, but I am tempted to imagine some kind of global meta-ecology (perhaps Marx's "global capitalism"?) within which each of these local ecologies operates. I'd be curious about actual research that has been done documenting the nature of these ecologies - e.g., what kinds of resources are available to be exploited? What kinds of possibilities are there for different forms of life? What institutional organisms can thrive? Which are dying off? (and just to be clear, I am intending a biological/evolutionary nature of the metaphor). It seems that this kind of work would be most likely to have been done by folks in the CHAT world, but perhaps the scale (of time and space) is a bit beyond the scales that CHAT folks prefer to consider? (I should add that I've recently discovered the work of Peter Sloterdijk's Bubbles trilogy and am curious if anyone has any thoughts on the value of his approach - it seems to fit very well with Marx and with CHAT/Vygotsky, my only initial concern was that he seems to fly a little fast and loose with pyschoanalytics at times - not a serious problem, but perhaps in a few places). Sympathetically, greg On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 1:57 PM, Huw Lloyd wrote: > Well, I would say there is more to it than simply transfer-ability, which > might be thought of as a good bureaucratic requirement. Really what is > required is genuine development -- reorganisation of thought and learning. > That is what is significant at a personal level, which is also the basis of > insights and creative work (i.e. personal knowledge rather than second hand > knowledge). The researcher in the blog article does not evince this (with > allusions to the nature of her training). There is the history school > children learn, which largely concerns the use of memory, and then there is > the history of conditions, relations and processes, which concerns > protracted thought. This developmental emphasis is what is lacking in > institutions which is why I have frequently pointed it out. > > This principle apples to "secure" jobs too. The jobs I have walked away > from have been due to the overly narrow scope, where I felt it was > necessary to be far more ambitious to achieve modest satisfaction, an > ambition which included achieving the wider scope within the norms > established. Similar issues pertain to my peripheral engagement with > academia. Twenty years ago, after completing a masters in cognitive science > (a good year), I decided against pursuing any further formal education with > any immediacy due to my sense that what I was encountering in the subject > (and related subjects) was fundamentally wrong or inadequate, but I > couldn't quite discern what that was. So, for me, I had no interest in > furthering the academic course at the time, because I was concerned with > understanding, doing, discovering and development, not being a "good > researcher". I was and am uninterested in the trappings of academia, what > it looks like from the outside (with dubious ethics of promoting those in > society who least need it) -- hence I am not too bothered about where the > experiences come from. After all, if you want sound knowledge then it > should be validated in places where it counts (in action), not in an echo > chamber of words. > > >From my (developmental) perspective academia appears to be chockfull of > unproductive thinking. The lack of systems understanding in the social > sciences (which has been pointed out by key persons for two generations) I > find to be quite incredible. This, as far as I can see, is the panacea to > the stasis and lethargy that I have seen in certain institutions, where > there are people in secure jobs with no interest in revitalising an > institution (perhaps the same people who rely upon their status for > authority). In the UK, in the social sciences, the whole social science > infrastructure is built upon a notion of quality that is ignorant of > systems -- that is the degree to which unproductive thinking has penetrated > social science. > > Yet there is much more to it still. Recently I have also come to a > surprising awareness that developmental prerogatives have rather a > significant amount in common with spiritual ones. So I would offer broader > advice than Michael's of staying clear of hardship. It may be that in that > "nadir" something surprising may be discovered. For anyone with a passion > "job security" is not a goal, at best it is a means to an ends, at worst it > is an obstacle. > > Over and out. :) > > Best, > Huw > > On 20 February 2018 at 07:12, Alfredo Jornet Gil > wrote: > > > Huw, Helena, and all, > > > > thanks to you both for taking the discussion where I was hoping it to go > > further: first, towards a reflection on the nature of training academic > > scholars go through as it concerns the classical problem of learning > > "transfer"; and then, as it regards the question of academic freedom > (which > > actually may be the same question, just taken in a language more adequate > > to an ecological understanding of the problem). This is absolutely not > just > > an individual problem. And, on that matter, I should be clear that I am a > > privileged in a privileged land, where, despite all uncertainty and pains > > that my family have gone and go through, I have today a good background > and > > network, and probably better prospects than the majority of junior > scholars > > out there. Not that I have earned this privilege for nothing: my migrant > > history and that of my family is all connected to an effort and quest to > > get better chances of academic opportunity in this market Helena talks > > about. But my personal story, as that of the historian in the article > > shared or of my French astronomer friend, are relevant in as far as they > > help us reflect on just those questions. They really also make one wonder > > on the sense of the term "academic freedom", for the latter term cannot > be > > about doing whatever research you want to do independently of some market > > conditions and societal needs and economy. We may then pose the > questions, > > what type of "freedom" is the "freedom" current systems (of incentives, > of > > ISI lists) afford, and what type of system could allow for another > meaning > > of the term "freedom"? > > > > Not to get too abstract, I guess that those reflections may be best > > pondered along concrete cases, if people is willing to take on Helena's > > suggestion to share particular stories of all that goes into getting into > > secured academic job positions, or else, of pursuing (in)dependent > careers > > outside/at the borders of/across academia. > > > > Alfredo > > > > > > ________________________________________ > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > on behalf of Helena Worthen > > Sent: 19 February 2018 19:19 > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > In the interests of widening the discussion: > > > > I?ve described my work history before on this list ? basically, moving > > from teaching literature and writing (with stopovers in landscape > > architecture and theater production) to concern about the working > > conditions of teachers, especially academics in higher education, the 75% > > who are contingent/adjuncts. The concern is both for the people employed > > this way and for the integrity of the institutions that employ them. I > > eventually engaged this concern by working with and for the labor > movement, > > ending up first working for the garment/apparel workers union in > > Philadelphia and then at the Labor Educaiton Program at the U of > Illinois, > > from which I retired in 2010. > > > > The new twist to this story is about the employment of academics on > > short-term contracts in Viet Nam, under conditions that seem to be > > increasingly frequent in the ?developing? world, where the market for > > education is booming. University World News http://www. > > universityworldnews.com/ tracks this phenomenon and includes occasinal > > critical articles about the competition for rankings. The university > where > > my husband and I have been teaching on and off since 2015, Ton Duc Thang > in > > Ho Chi Minh City, recruits professors from all over the world with a > > promise of $2,000 per month US ? but extending their contracts depends on > > producing articles published in journals on the ISI list; the nature of > > this list is worth taking a look at. The impact of this practice on the > > culture and student body is not all bad. > > > > My point here is to place the issue of the challenge of getting a > > tenure-track job in a global context. This is not just an individual > > problem. > > > > I?m willing to go further down this line of discussion. However, > academics > > are often reluctant to reveal and compare their working conditions on an > > ?academic? discussion list. Maybe by putting up the issue of what > academic > > freedom requires, and how these requirements fare in the global market > for > > higher education, we can shed the embarassment of revealing information > > about our own experiences with getting the brass ring of a full-time, > > secure job. > > > > Let?s see if anyone picks up on this. Maybe I?m being too vague. > > > > Helena Worthen > > helenaworthen@gmail.com > > Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 > > Blog US/ Viet Nam: > > helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > skype: helena.worthen1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 19, 2018, at 9:19 AM, Huw Lloyd > > wrote: > > > > > > The article describes accumulating large amounts of knowledge > pertaining > > to > > > history, which (the author maintains) cannot be turned to other > > endeavours. > > > This, no doubt, is true for her. If, however, her approach to studying > > > history had been systemic, then there would have been a powerful form > of > > > re-application and continuity in any work that was turned to. Perhaps > the > > > same can be said for "phd/postdoc training". If it cannot be reused or > > > isn't enabling, what, substantively, is it? > > > > > > Best, > > > Huw > > > > > > > > > On 18 February 2018 at 18:32, Alfredo Jornet Gil > > > wrote: > > > > > >> Really inspiring words and work, Francine. I do see community colleges > > and > > >> many other educational settings apart from universities as really > > valuable > > >> and exciting opportunities; the PhD and following postdoc etc training > > in > > >> universities, however, tend to be very much targeted towards a very > > narrow > > >> spectrum of positions, or at least that's been my experience. I am > very > > >> happy that this thread may widen that scope and make visible other > > paths. > > >> And as Mike suggested, it would be very interesting to hear from > several > > >> others who have followed distinct trajectories apart from the > > >> phd-postdoc-assist/assoc. prof-prof, and yet made a career in touch > with > > >> most of what was developed in the junior (phd and few later) years. > > >> Thanks! > > >> Alfredo > > >> ________________________________________ > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu edu> > > >> on behalf of Larry Smolucha > > >> Sent: 18 February 2018 06:20 > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > >> > > >> Message from Francine Smolucha on a scholar's life with or without > > academia > > >> > > >> > > >> Alfredo, > > >> > > >> > > >> There are other jobs that pay well (sometimes with tenure and early > > >> retirement benefits) - besides professorships at four year colleges > and > > >> universities. Administrative and support staff positions pay well. > And > > >> don't overlook community colleges, technical colleges, and public > grade > > >> schools and high schools. There is also the private sector and > > government > > >> jobs. > > >> > > >> > > >> As a 'low status' community college professor, I managed to translate > > >> Vygotsky's > > >> > > >> overlooked writings on creativity (back in the 1980's) and introduced > > his > > >> theory of creativity to academia. I got early retirement at age 53 > and > > >> continue to write and publish. While my Ph.D from the University of > > Chicago > > >> gave me academic bona fides, it was the quality of the scholarly work > > that > > >> ultimately mattered. > > >> > > >> > > >> I was always inspired by the harsh circumstances of Vygotsky's life > and > > >> how he still kept on writing. > > >> > > >> [When I felt really sorry for myself, I would actually say "Well at > > least > > >> I am not coughing up blood"] > > >> > > >> So many of his works were not published in his lifetime, he did not > > >> collect a royalties check, and they say he was depressed at the end > > of > > >> his life. > > >> > > >> > > >> I leave you with this quote from an ancient Sufi mystic - > > >> > > >> > > >> You can't always get what you want but you can get what you need > > >> > > >> > > >> . > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> ________________________________ > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu edu> > > >> on behalf of mike cole > > >> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:07 PM > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > >> > > >> Yours is a quandary shared by your generation, Alfredo. > > >> Being allowed to teach and conduct research in a quality institution > is > > a > > >> great privilege and an > > >> increasingly rarer possibility. > > >> > > >> There are several people on this list who have organized their lives > to > > be > > >> independent scholars > > >> while staying connected to the core institutions of disciplinary > > training. > > >> It might be nice to hear > > >> the variety out there. > > >> > > >> It appears pretty certain that the situation is going to get worse > > >> before/if it gets better. > > >> > > >> What can the collective experience of xmca come up with that would be > > >> useful to the many > > >> of you caught in this meat grinder? > > >> > > >> mike > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >>> Good luck then, Wagner! > > >>> A > > >>> ________________________________________ > > >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu edu > > > > > >>> on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit > > >>> Sent: 18 February 2018 01:07 > > >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity > > >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > >>> > > >>> This just hit me in the spot... > > >>> > > >>> Wagner > > >>> > > >>> On Feb 17, 2018 9:48 PM, "Alfredo Jornet Gil" > > >> wrote: > > >>> > > >>>> I have not been able to contribute to this list as much as I'd like > to > > >>>> lately, among other things, because I need to find a job, and I need > > to > > >>>> make sure that I have checked all those boxes that selection > > committees > > >>>> will check (enough first-authored publications? in good enough > > >> journals? > > >>>> enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? acquiring > funds? > > >>> more > > >>>> than all others candidates? and more than > favoured-for-whatever-other- > > >>> reasons > > >>>> candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these weeks to fill up > a > > >>>> competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> And, although I did not think that it was particularly well written, > > it > > >>>> was both relieving and discouraging to read this article (see link > > >> below, > > >>>> which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague who I think also > > >>>> subscribes this list). The article makes visible the pain scholars > go > > >>>> through when, after so many years of digging and digging and > digging a > > >>>> little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to leave it and find > some > > >>> other > > >>>> thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer who was moving > > >> through > > >>>> the world with his lovely family, short-term project after > short-term > > >>>> project, getting better and better at what he worked on (apparently > he > > >>> was > > >>>> among the few who had expertise in computer modeling simulating some > > >>>> astronomic events) , and finally having to step out academia last > year > > >> to > > >>>> find something else to do, for his family no longer could stand the > > >>>> constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be me soon. And that > may > > >>> not > > >>>> be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the story seems to be > > >>> quite > > >>>> endemic to academia and may be interesting to some of you: > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Loses-When/242560 > > >>>> > > >>>> Alfredo > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > > > > -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson From huw.softdesigns@gmail.com Sun Feb 25 16:32:24 2018 From: huw.softdesigns@gmail.com (Huw Lloyd) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2018 00:32:24 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In-Reply-To: <1519598399026.36406@iped.uio.no> References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> <1518914964416.39650@iped.uio.no> <1518978734957.93647@iped.uio.no> <87FCF1E0-1B28-4F92-A85C-9E5A10424B74@gmail.com> <1519110745104.46827@iped.uio.no> <1519598399026.36406@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: I would ask, what makes you think you have an ecology (or niche)? It seems that the notion of topologically derived ecologies is still bandied about since Bronfenbrenner (1977), though I do not know whether he managed to refine (overhaul and improve) his notions into something integrated and agent-centric. One does not provide an ecology or an environment. The environment is different for everyone, a simple consideration of a rock-face or climbing wall is sufficient to grasp this -- the so called environment (the rock face) is different to each climber, their environment is that which is appropriate to them which includes contexts well beyond what is established in an institution. From what I can gauge, historically, slack was deliberately introduced into courses to afford personal enquiry. There was the basic work and then there was the genuine enquiry. Who in their right mind wants to write an exam essay on a question they are expected to pre-write and repeat by memory? Why would someone who enjoys thinking about their subject want to go through that kind of impoverished tedium? These systems are obviously geared for "delivery". Perhaps the biggest cultural shift can be achieved through instituting joint and personal enquiry. A teacher that stands before their class and delivers their subject inevitably obscures and obstructs the process of enquiry, although many students will have learnt from a young age that this is what to expect and demand. Engagement with genuine problems rather than what students are expected to do is the basic orientational issue. Dispose of grades, then anyone who isn't interested is free to go home. The advance of STEM research is probably a good thing for social science. For productive work, social science must understand the structure of STEM based work, in addition to bureaucratic processes and circumstances for creative work. Sticking one's head in the sand over STEM-like research serves merely to perpetuate the impoverished side of social science. It reminds me of the scene in Pirsig's Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance in which a couple lack the wherewithal to fix a dripping faucet that gives them grief and instead choose to ignore it. Though it was a very long time ago, Pirsig's book may have contributed to my understanding of quality and might be thought of as an exploration of some social issues pertaining to technical enterprises. Another good text to appreciate quality more directly, probably outside the formal area of STEM, is Alshuller's Innovation Algorithm. Warm regards to you Henry, Greg, Alfredo. Best, Huw On 25 February 2018 at 22:39, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > Greg, Huw, and others, I do often get worried that in the formals and > informal meetings at our department (department of education), > conversations tend to focus on the "micro" developments that you mention > (students, grades, getting a next grant, getting that paper published, > making sure you've got enough) most of the time, and not so much on what > society we would like to have, and how our institution could/should > contribute to that. I do not have any suggestions on the type of studies > that you ask about?dealing with how ecologies of scholarship in academia > lead to given developmental dynamics?other than the classical studies in > STS, like Latour & Woolgar's on laboratory life, or S. L. Star's. But when > I look forward at what lies between me (or anyone in my institution) and a > change in the way this institution has impact in the life of many, what I > see is lots of routines, habits, documents, and paperwork entangled in the > middle, such that the idea "mediation all the way through" makes all the > sense. And seeing things that way (from the ecological perspective), makes > the possibility of changing things to look actually feasible, or more > accurately perhaps, imagine-able. I'd like to continue being part of the > ecology to be able to be also be part of its changing it. I hope others > will bring more specific literature to bear. I am already downloading some > of Peter Sloterdijk's to read. > > Alfredo > > > > ________________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Greg Thompson > Sent: 24 February 2018 17:45 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > I appreciate Huw's concern about academia and the push to orient to a > broader and more systemic concern with "development". I think that this is > what institutions of higher education are supposed to have, right? - at the > very least a concern for the development of individual "students", but > also, one would hope, a concern for "development" at a longer timescale > (e.g., how to be a better society, a better world). They certainly tout > these in their promo materials. > > And yet, in practice, these institutions often fall back on bureaucratic or > economic logics. Bureaucratic logic goes something like, "just publish (in > "good" (i.e., high impact factor) journals), who cares what you publish so > long as we can count it to determine its (and your) 'value'(!)". > > As for the economic logic, I was just talking with Rick Shweder the other > day about this issue and he expressed the concern about the push towards > STEM education at the expense of all else and the way that STEM buildings > are slowly starting to take over his campus (the University of Chicago - a > place that was long held to be a hold out of liberal arts education - > apparently they now have an engineering program). He suggested that this is > tied to an early 80's court decision that gave universities ownership of > patents developed on their campuses. > > To my mind, this calls to mind a concern with ecologies of development > (across the shorter and longer timescales). What are the ecologies (social, > economic, political, etc.) within which development (at these various > timescales) occurs in our world today? This is really a question of what is > possible and/or what is likely with regard to becoming. What are the forms > of life and forms of development that are sustainable given the larger > ecologies in which that development happens? > > And for thinking through that problem, I've had a hard time thinking of > anyone who has better thought through this problem than Marx - at the > longer timescale of development, that is (Vygotsky would, of course, be > better at thinking through development at the shorter timescale of > ontogeny). > > I'd love to hear others' thoughts on those who have studied activities that > can begin to shed light on these ecologies of development (particularly at > the longer timescale). Any thoughts/suggestions? I would imagine this work > considering various kinds of institutions that run the gamut - from venture > capitalist firms to non-profits to governmental institutions to > institutions of higher education. I would presume that each of these kinds > of institutions would have a local ecology within which they work, but I am > tempted to imagine some kind of global meta-ecology (perhaps Marx's "global > capitalism"?) within which each of these local ecologies operates. I'd be > curious about actual research that has been done documenting the nature of > these ecologies - e.g., what kinds of resources are available to be > exploited? What kinds of possibilities are there for different forms of > life? What institutional organisms can thrive? Which are dying off? (and > just to be clear, I am intending a biological/evolutionary nature of the > metaphor). > > It seems that this kind of work would be most likely to have been done by > folks in the CHAT world, but perhaps the scale (of time and space) is a bit > beyond the scales that CHAT folks prefer to consider? > > (I should add that I've recently discovered the work of Peter Sloterdijk's > Bubbles trilogy and am curious if anyone has any thoughts on the value of > his approach - it seems to fit very well with Marx and with CHAT/Vygotsky, > my only initial concern was that he seems to fly a little fast and loose > with pyschoanalytics at times - not a serious problem, but perhaps in a few > places). > > Sympathetically, > greg > > > > > On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 1:57 PM, Huw Lloyd > wrote: > > > Well, I would say there is more to it than simply transfer-ability, which > > might be thought of as a good bureaucratic requirement. Really what is > > required is genuine development -- reorganisation of thought and > learning. > > That is what is significant at a personal level, which is also the basis > of > > insights and creative work (i.e. personal knowledge rather than second > hand > > knowledge). The researcher in the blog article does not evince this (with > > allusions to the nature of her training). There is the history school > > children learn, which largely concerns the use of memory, and then there > is > > the history of conditions, relations and processes, which concerns > > protracted thought. This developmental emphasis is what is lacking in > > institutions which is why I have frequently pointed it out. > > > > This principle apples to "secure" jobs too. The jobs I have walked away > > from have been due to the overly narrow scope, where I felt it was > > necessary to be far more ambitious to achieve modest satisfaction, an > > ambition which included achieving the wider scope within the norms > > established. Similar issues pertain to my peripheral engagement with > > academia. Twenty years ago, after completing a masters in cognitive > science > > (a good year), I decided against pursuing any further formal education > with > > any immediacy due to my sense that what I was encountering in the subject > > (and related subjects) was fundamentally wrong or inadequate, but I > > couldn't quite discern what that was. So, for me, I had no interest in > > furthering the academic course at the time, because I was concerned with > > understanding, doing, discovering and development, not being a "good > > researcher". I was and am uninterested in the trappings of academia, what > > it looks like from the outside (with dubious ethics of promoting those in > > society who least need it) -- hence I am not too bothered about where the > > experiences come from. After all, if you want sound knowledge then it > > should be validated in places where it counts (in action), not in an echo > > chamber of words. > > > > >From my (developmental) perspective academia appears to be chockfull of > > unproductive thinking. The lack of systems understanding in the social > > sciences (which has been pointed out by key persons for two generations) > I > > find to be quite incredible. This, as far as I can see, is the panacea to > > the stasis and lethargy that I have seen in certain institutions, where > > there are people in secure jobs with no interest in revitalising an > > institution (perhaps the same people who rely upon their status for > > authority). In the UK, in the social sciences, the whole social science > > infrastructure is built upon a notion of quality that is ignorant of > > systems -- that is the degree to which unproductive thinking has > penetrated > > social science. > > > > Yet there is much more to it still. Recently I have also come to a > > surprising awareness that developmental prerogatives have rather a > > significant amount in common with spiritual ones. So I would offer > broader > > advice than Michael's of staying clear of hardship. It may be that in > that > > "nadir" something surprising may be discovered. For anyone with a passion > > "job security" is not a goal, at best it is a means to an ends, at worst > it > > is an obstacle. > > > > Over and out. :) > > > > Best, > > Huw > > > > On 20 February 2018 at 07:12, Alfredo Jornet Gil > > wrote: > > > > > Huw, Helena, and all, > > > > > > thanks to you both for taking the discussion where I was hoping it to > go > > > further: first, towards a reflection on the nature of training academic > > > scholars go through as it concerns the classical problem of learning > > > "transfer"; and then, as it regards the question of academic freedom > > (which > > > actually may be the same question, just taken in a language more > adequate > > > to an ecological understanding of the problem). This is absolutely not > > just > > > an individual problem. And, on that matter, I should be clear that I > am a > > > privileged in a privileged land, where, despite all uncertainty and > pains > > > that my family have gone and go through, I have today a good background > > and > > > network, and probably better prospects than the majority of junior > > scholars > > > out there. Not that I have earned this privilege for nothing: my > migrant > > > history and that of my family is all connected to an effort and quest > to > > > get better chances of academic opportunity in this market Helena talks > > > about. But my personal story, as that of the historian in the article > > > shared or of my French astronomer friend, are relevant in as far as > they > > > help us reflect on just those questions. They really also make one > wonder > > > on the sense of the term "academic freedom", for the latter term cannot > > be > > > about doing whatever research you want to do independently of some > market > > > conditions and societal needs and economy. We may then pose the > > questions, > > > what type of "freedom" is the "freedom" current systems (of incentives, > > of > > > ISI lists) afford, and what type of system could allow for another > > meaning > > > of the term "freedom"? > > > > > > Not to get too abstract, I guess that those reflections may be best > > > pondered along concrete cases, if people is willing to take on Helena's > > > suggestion to share particular stories of all that goes into getting > into > > > secured academic job positions, or else, of pursuing (in)dependent > > careers > > > outside/at the borders of/across academia. > > > > > > Alfredo > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________ > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > on behalf of Helena Worthen > > > Sent: 19 February 2018 19:19 > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > > > In the interests of widening the discussion: > > > > > > I?ve described my work history before on this list ? basically, moving > > > from teaching literature and writing (with stopovers in landscape > > > architecture and theater production) to concern about the working > > > conditions of teachers, especially academics in higher education, the > 75% > > > who are contingent/adjuncts. The concern is both for the people > employed > > > this way and for the integrity of the institutions that employ them. I > > > eventually engaged this concern by working with and for the labor > > movement, > > > ending up first working for the garment/apparel workers union in > > > Philadelphia and then at the Labor Educaiton Program at the U of > > Illinois, > > > from which I retired in 2010. > > > > > > The new twist to this story is about the employment of academics on > > > short-term contracts in Viet Nam, under conditions that seem to be > > > increasingly frequent in the ?developing? world, where the market for > > > education is booming. University World News http://www. > > > universityworldnews.com/ tracks this phenomenon and includes > occasinal > > > critical articles about the competition for rankings. The university > > where > > > my husband and I have been teaching on and off since 2015, Ton Duc > Thang > > in > > > Ho Chi Minh City, recruits professors from all over the world with a > > > promise of $2,000 per month US ? but extending their contracts depends > on > > > producing articles published in journals on the ISI list; the nature of > > > this list is worth taking a look at. The impact of this practice on the > > > culture and student body is not all bad. > > > > > > My point here is to place the issue of the challenge of getting a > > > tenure-track job in a global context. This is not just an individual > > > problem. > > > > > > I?m willing to go further down this line of discussion. However, > > academics > > > are often reluctant to reveal and compare their working conditions on > an > > > ?academic? discussion list. Maybe by putting up the issue of what > > academic > > > freedom requires, and how these requirements fare in the global market > > for > > > higher education, we can shed the embarassment of revealing information > > > about our own experiences with getting the brass ring of a full-time, > > > secure job. > > > > > > Let?s see if anyone picks up on this. Maybe I?m being too vague. > > > > > > Helena Worthen > > > helenaworthen@gmail.com > > > Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 > > > Blog US/ Viet Nam: > > > helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > > skype: helena.worthen1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 19, 2018, at 9:19 AM, Huw Lloyd > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > The article describes accumulating large amounts of knowledge > > pertaining > > > to > > > > history, which (the author maintains) cannot be turned to other > > > endeavours. > > > > This, no doubt, is true for her. If, however, her approach to > studying > > > > history had been systemic, then there would have been a powerful form > > of > > > > re-application and continuity in any work that was turned to. Perhaps > > the > > > > same can be said for "phd/postdoc training". If it cannot be reused > or > > > > isn't enabling, what, substantively, is it? > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > Huw > > > > > > > > > > > > On 18 February 2018 at 18:32, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> Really inspiring words and work, Francine. I do see community > colleges > > > and > > > >> many other educational settings apart from universities as really > > > valuable > > > >> and exciting opportunities; the PhD and following postdoc etc > training > > > in > > > >> universities, however, tend to be very much targeted towards a very > > > narrow > > > >> spectrum of positions, or at least that's been my experience. I am > > very > > > >> happy that this thread may widen that scope and make visible other > > > paths. > > > >> And as Mike suggested, it would be very interesting to hear from > > several > > > >> others who have followed distinct trajectories apart from the > > > >> phd-postdoc-assist/assoc. prof-prof, and yet made a career in touch > > with > > > >> most of what was developed in the junior (phd and few later) years. > > > >> Thanks! > > > >> Alfredo > > > >> ________________________________________ > > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > edu> > > > >> on behalf of Larry Smolucha > > > >> Sent: 18 February 2018 06:20 > > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > >> > > > >> Message from Francine Smolucha on a scholar's life with or without > > > academia > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> Alfredo, > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> There are other jobs that pay well (sometimes with tenure and early > > > >> retirement benefits) - besides professorships at four year colleges > > and > > > >> universities. Administrative and support staff positions pay well. > > And > > > >> don't overlook community colleges, technical colleges, and public > > grade > > > >> schools and high schools. There is also the private sector and > > > government > > > >> jobs. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> As a 'low status' community college professor, I managed to > translate > > > >> Vygotsky's > > > >> > > > >> overlooked writings on creativity (back in the 1980's) and > introduced > > > his > > > >> theory of creativity to academia. I got early retirement at age 53 > > and > > > >> continue to write and publish. While my Ph.D from the University of > > > Chicago > > > >> gave me academic bona fides, it was the quality of the scholarly > work > > > that > > > >> ultimately mattered. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> I was always inspired by the harsh circumstances of Vygotsky's life > > and > > > >> how he still kept on writing. > > > >> > > > >> [When I felt really sorry for myself, I would actually say "Well at > > > least > > > >> I am not coughing up blood"] > > > >> > > > >> So many of his works were not published in his lifetime, he did not > > > >> collect a royalties check, and they say he was depressed at the > end > > > of > > > >> his life. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> I leave you with this quote from an ancient Sufi mystic - > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> You can't always get what you want but you can get what you need > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> . > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> ________________________________ > > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > edu> > > > >> on behalf of mike cole > > > >> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:07 PM > > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > >> > > > >> Yours is a quandary shared by your generation, Alfredo. > > > >> Being allowed to teach and conduct research in a quality institution > > is > > > a > > > >> great privilege and an > > > >> increasingly rarer possibility. > > > >> > > > >> There are several people on this list who have organized their lives > > to > > > be > > > >> independent scholars > > > >> while staying connected to the core institutions of disciplinary > > > training. > > > >> It might be nice to hear > > > >> the variety out there. > > > >> > > > >> It appears pretty certain that the situation is going to get worse > > > >> before/if it gets better. > > > >> > > > >> What can the collective experience of xmca come up with that would > be > > > >> useful to the many > > > >> of you caught in this meat grinder? > > > >> > > > >> mike > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > > > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > > > >> wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> Good luck then, Wagner! > > > >>> A > > > >>> ________________________________________ > > > >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > edu > > > > > > > >>> on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit > > > >>> Sent: 18 February 2018 01:07 > > > >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity > > > >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > >>> > > > >>> This just hit me in the spot... > > > >>> > > > >>> Wagner > > > >>> > > > >>> On Feb 17, 2018 9:48 PM, "Alfredo Jornet Gil" > > > > >> wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>>> I have not been able to contribute to this list as much as I'd > like > > to > > > >>>> lately, among other things, because I need to find a job, and I > need > > > to > > > >>>> make sure that I have checked all those boxes that selection > > > committees > > > >>>> will check (enough first-authored publications? in good enough > > > >> journals? > > > >>>> enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? acquiring > > funds? > > > >>> more > > > >>>> than all others candidates? and more than > > favoured-for-whatever-other- > > > >>> reasons > > > >>>> candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these weeks to fill > up > > a > > > >>>> competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> And, although I did not think that it was particularly well > written, > > > it > > > >>>> was both relieving and discouraging to read this article (see link > > > >> below, > > > >>>> which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague who I think > also > > > >>>> subscribes this list). The article makes visible the pain scholars > > go > > > >>>> through when, after so many years of digging and digging and > > digging a > > > >>>> little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to leave it and find > > some > > > >>> other > > > >>>> thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer who was moving > > > >> through > > > >>>> the world with his lovely family, short-term project after > > short-term > > > >>>> project, getting better and better at what he worked on > (apparently > > he > > > >>> was > > > >>>> among the few who had expertise in computer modeling simulating > some > > > >>>> astronomic events) , and finally having to step out academia last > > year > > > >> to > > > >>>> find something else to do, for his family no longer could stand > the > > > >>>> constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be me soon. And that > > may > > > >>> not > > > >>>> be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the story seems to > be > > > >>> quite > > > >>>> endemic to academia and may be interesting to some of you: > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Loses-When/242560 > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Alfredo > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > From glassman.13@osu.edu Sun Feb 25 17:15:09 2018 From: glassman.13@osu.edu (Glassman, Michael) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2018 01:15:09 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In-Reply-To: References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> <1518914964416.39650@iped.uio.no> <1518978734957.93647@iped.uio.no> <87FCF1E0-1B28-4F92-A85C-9E5A10424B74@gmail.com> <1519110745104.46827@iped.uio.no> <1519598399026.36406@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AD5C72@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> Hi Huw, Perhaps the opposite is also true though. STEM researchers can better understand what they are doing if they are well versed in the social sciences. Understand the history and the meaning of what they are doing so they do not act as androids (sorry, been watching the Aliens trilogy of late). Perhaps we made the wrong calculation. We have lost control of our great STEM innovations because the people using them don't understand the social webs that they create. So we have people pushing xMOOCs (whatever happened to MOOCs anyway) as saving education (and also a bundle so everybody gets tax cuts, wheeee!), saying that they are good because they can reach many, the proverbial long tail, with great education (Harvard, Stanford). Yet nobody asks the question, "Why is this a good thing." There really isn't much supporting this in earlier distance education. There is actually more evidence of how dangerous it is (Participatory Action Research). Michael -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Huw Lloyd Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2018 7:32 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship I would ask, what makes you think you have an ecology (or niche)? It seems that the notion of topologically derived ecologies is still bandied about since Bronfenbrenner (1977), though I do not know whether he managed to refine (overhaul and improve) his notions into something integrated and agent-centric. One does not provide an ecology or an environment. The environment is different for everyone, a simple consideration of a rock-face or climbing wall is sufficient to grasp this -- the so called environment (the rock face) is different to each climber, their environment is that which is appropriate to them which includes contexts well beyond what is established in an institution. From what I can gauge, historically, slack was deliberately introduced into courses to afford personal enquiry. There was the basic work and then there was the genuine enquiry. Who in their right mind wants to write an exam essay on a question they are expected to pre-write and repeat by memory? Why would someone who enjoys thinking about their subject want to go through that kind of impoverished tedium? These systems are obviously geared for "delivery". Perhaps the biggest cultural shift can be achieved through instituting joint and personal enquiry. A teacher that stands before their class and delivers their subject inevitably obscures and obstructs the process of enquiry, although many students will have learnt from a young age that this is what to expect and demand. Engagement with genuine problems rather than what students are expected to do is the basic orientational issue. Dispose of grades, then anyone who isn't interested is free to go home. The advance of STEM research is probably a good thing for social science. For productive work, social science must understand the structure of STEM based work, in addition to bureaucratic processes and circumstances for creative work. Sticking one's head in the sand over STEM-like research serves merely to perpetuate the impoverished side of social science. It reminds me of the scene in Pirsig's Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance in which a couple lack the wherewithal to fix a dripping faucet that gives them grief and instead choose to ignore it. Though it was a very long time ago, Pirsig's book may have contributed to my understanding of quality and might be thought of as an exploration of some social issues pertaining to technical enterprises. Another good text to appreciate quality more directly, probably outside the formal area of STEM, is Alshuller's Innovation Algorithm. Warm regards to you Henry, Greg, Alfredo. Best, Huw On 25 February 2018 at 22:39, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > Greg, Huw, and others, I do often get worried that in the formals and > informal meetings at our department (department of education), > conversations tend to focus on the "micro" developments that you > mention (students, grades, getting a next grant, getting that paper > published, making sure you've got enough) most of the time, and not so > much on what society we would like to have, and how our institution > could/should contribute to that. I do not have any suggestions on the > type of studies that you ask about?dealing with how ecologies of > scholarship in academia lead to given developmental dynamics?other > than the classical studies in STS, like Latour & Woolgar's on > laboratory life, or S. L. Star's. But when I look forward at what lies > between me (or anyone in my institution) and a change in the way this > institution has impact in the life of many, what I see is lots of > routines, habits, documents, and paperwork entangled in the middle, > such that the idea "mediation all the way through" makes all the > sense. And seeing things that way (from the ecological perspective), > makes the possibility of changing things to look actually feasible, or > more accurately perhaps, imagine-able. I'd like to continue being part > of the ecology to be able to be also be part of its changing it. I > hope others will bring more specific literature to bear. I am already downloading some of Peter Sloterdijk's to read. > > Alfredo > > > > ________________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Greg Thompson > > Sent: 24 February 2018 17:45 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > I appreciate Huw's concern about academia and the push to orient to a > broader and more systemic concern with "development". I think that > this is what institutions of higher education are supposed to have, > right? - at the very least a concern for the development of individual > "students", but also, one would hope, a concern for "development" at a > longer timescale (e.g., how to be a better society, a better world). > They certainly tout these in their promo materials. > > And yet, in practice, these institutions often fall back on > bureaucratic or economic logics. Bureaucratic logic goes something > like, "just publish (in "good" (i.e., high impact factor) journals), > who cares what you publish so long as we can count it to determine its (and your) 'value'(!)". > > As for the economic logic, I was just talking with Rick Shweder the > other day about this issue and he expressed the concern about the push > towards STEM education at the expense of all else and the way that > STEM buildings are slowly starting to take over his campus (the > University of Chicago - a place that was long held to be a hold out of > liberal arts education - apparently they now have an engineering > program). He suggested that this is tied to an early 80's court > decision that gave universities ownership of patents developed on their campuses. > > To my mind, this calls to mind a concern with ecologies of development > (across the shorter and longer timescales). What are the ecologies > (social, economic, political, etc.) within which development (at these > various > timescales) occurs in our world today? This is really a question of > what is possible and/or what is likely with regard to becoming. What > are the forms of life and forms of development that are sustainable > given the larger ecologies in which that development happens? > > And for thinking through that problem, I've had a hard time thinking > of anyone who has better thought through this problem than Marx - at > the longer timescale of development, that is (Vygotsky would, of > course, be better at thinking through development at the shorter > timescale of ontogeny). > > I'd love to hear others' thoughts on those who have studied activities > that can begin to shed light on these ecologies of development > (particularly at the longer timescale). Any thoughts/suggestions? I > would imagine this work considering various kinds of institutions that > run the gamut - from venture capitalist firms to non-profits to > governmental institutions to institutions of higher education. I would > presume that each of these kinds of institutions would have a local > ecology within which they work, but I am tempted to imagine some kind > of global meta-ecology (perhaps Marx's "global > capitalism"?) within which each of these local ecologies operates. I'd > be curious about actual research that has been done documenting the > nature of these ecologies - e.g., what kinds of resources are > available to be exploited? What kinds of possibilities are there for > different forms of life? What institutional organisms can thrive? > Which are dying off? (and just to be clear, I am intending a > biological/evolutionary nature of the metaphor). > > It seems that this kind of work would be most likely to have been done > by folks in the CHAT world, but perhaps the scale (of time and space) > is a bit beyond the scales that CHAT folks prefer to consider? > > (I should add that I've recently discovered the work of Peter > Sloterdijk's Bubbles trilogy and am curious if anyone has any thoughts > on the value of his approach - it seems to fit very well with Marx and > with CHAT/Vygotsky, my only initial concern was that he seems to fly a > little fast and loose with pyschoanalytics at times - not a serious > problem, but perhaps in a few places). > > Sympathetically, > greg > > > > > On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 1:57 PM, Huw Lloyd > wrote: > > > Well, I would say there is more to it than simply transfer-ability, > > which might be thought of as a good bureaucratic requirement. Really > > what is required is genuine development -- reorganisation of thought > > and > learning. > > That is what is significant at a personal level, which is also the > > basis > of > > insights and creative work (i.e. personal knowledge rather than > > second > hand > > knowledge). The researcher in the blog article does not evince this > > (with allusions to the nature of her training). There is the history > > school children learn, which largely concerns the use of memory, and > > then there > is > > the history of conditions, relations and processes, which concerns > > protracted thought. This developmental emphasis is what is lacking > > in institutions which is why I have frequently pointed it out. > > > > This principle apples to "secure" jobs too. The jobs I have walked > > away from have been due to the overly narrow scope, where I felt it > > was necessary to be far more ambitious to achieve modest > > satisfaction, an ambition which included achieving the wider scope > > within the norms established. Similar issues pertain to my > > peripheral engagement with academia. Twenty years ago, after > > completing a masters in cognitive > science > > (a good year), I decided against pursuing any further formal > > education > with > > any immediacy due to my sense that what I was encountering in the > > subject (and related subjects) was fundamentally wrong or > > inadequate, but I couldn't quite discern what that was. So, for me, > > I had no interest in furthering the academic course at the time, > > because I was concerned with understanding, doing, discovering and > > development, not being a "good researcher". I was and am > > uninterested in the trappings of academia, what it looks like from > > the outside (with dubious ethics of promoting those in society who > > least need it) -- hence I am not too bothered about where the > > experiences come from. After all, if you want sound knowledge then > > it should be validated in places where it counts (in action), not in an echo chamber of words. > > > > >From my (developmental) perspective academia appears to be > > >chockfull of > > unproductive thinking. The lack of systems understanding in the > > social sciences (which has been pointed out by key persons for two > > generations) > I > > find to be quite incredible. This, as far as I can see, is the > > panacea to the stasis and lethargy that I have seen in certain > > institutions, where there are people in secure jobs with no interest > > in revitalising an institution (perhaps the same people who rely > > upon their status for authority). In the UK, in the social sciences, > > the whole social science infrastructure is built upon a notion of > > quality that is ignorant of systems -- that is the degree to which > > unproductive thinking has > penetrated > > social science. > > > > Yet there is much more to it still. Recently I have also come to a > > surprising awareness that developmental prerogatives have rather a > > significant amount in common with spiritual ones. So I would offer > broader > > advice than Michael's of staying clear of hardship. It may be that > > in > that > > "nadir" something surprising may be discovered. For anyone with a > > passion "job security" is not a goal, at best it is a means to an > > ends, at worst > it > > is an obstacle. > > > > Over and out. :) > > > > Best, > > Huw > > > > On 20 February 2018 at 07:12, Alfredo Jornet Gil > > > > wrote: > > > > > Huw, Helena, and all, > > > > > > thanks to you both for taking the discussion where I was hoping it > > > to > go > > > further: first, towards a reflection on the nature of training > > > academic scholars go through as it concerns the classical problem > > > of learning "transfer"; and then, as it regards the question of > > > academic freedom > > (which > > > actually may be the same question, just taken in a language more > adequate > > > to an ecological understanding of the problem). This is absolutely > > > not > > just > > > an individual problem. And, on that matter, I should be clear that > > > I > am a > > > privileged in a privileged land, where, despite all uncertainty > > > and > pains > > > that my family have gone and go through, I have today a good > > > background > > and > > > network, and probably better prospects than the majority of junior > > scholars > > > out there. Not that I have earned this privilege for nothing: my > migrant > > > history and that of my family is all connected to an effort and > > > quest > to > > > get better chances of academic opportunity in this market Helena > > > talks about. But my personal story, as that of the historian in > > > the article shared or of my French astronomer friend, are relevant > > > in as far as > they > > > help us reflect on just those questions. They really also make one > wonder > > > on the sense of the term "academic freedom", for the latter term > > > cannot > > be > > > about doing whatever research you want to do independently of some > market > > > conditions and societal needs and economy. We may then pose the > > questions, > > > what type of "freedom" is the "freedom" current systems (of > > > incentives, > > of > > > ISI lists) afford, and what type of system could allow for another > > meaning > > > of the term "freedom"? > > > > > > Not to get too abstract, I guess that those reflections may be > > > best pondered along concrete cases, if people is willing to take > > > on Helena's suggestion to share particular stories of all that > > > goes into getting > into > > > secured academic job positions, or else, of pursuing (in)dependent > > careers > > > outside/at the borders of/across academia. > > > > > > Alfredo > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________ > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > > > > on behalf of Helena Worthen > > > Sent: 19 February 2018 19:19 > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > > > In the interests of widening the discussion: > > > > > > I?ve described my work history before on this list ? basically, > > > moving from teaching literature and writing (with stopovers in > > > landscape architecture and theater production) to concern about > > > the working conditions of teachers, especially academics in higher > > > education, the > 75% > > > who are contingent/adjuncts. The concern is both for the people > employed > > > this way and for the integrity of the institutions that employ > > > them. I eventually engaged this concern by working with and for > > > the labor > > movement, > > > ending up first working for the garment/apparel workers union in > > > Philadelphia and then at the Labor Educaiton Program at the U of > > Illinois, > > > from which I retired in 2010. > > > > > > The new twist to this story is about the employment of academics > > > on short-term contracts in Viet Nam, under conditions that seem to > > > be increasingly frequent in the ?developing? world, where the > > > market for education is booming. University World News http://www. > > > universityworldnews.com/ tracks this phenomenon and includes > occasinal > > > critical articles about the competition for rankings. The > > > university > > where > > > my husband and I have been teaching on and off since 2015, Ton Duc > Thang > > in > > > Ho Chi Minh City, recruits professors from all over the world with > > > a promise of $2,000 per month US ? but extending their contracts > > > depends > on > > > producing articles published in journals on the ISI list; the > > > nature of this list is worth taking a look at. The impact of this > > > practice on the culture and student body is not all bad. > > > > > > My point here is to place the issue of the challenge of getting a > > > tenure-track job in a global context. This is not just an > > > individual problem. > > > > > > I?m willing to go further down this line of discussion. However, > > academics > > > are often reluctant to reveal and compare their working conditions > > > on > an > > > ?academic? discussion list. Maybe by putting up the issue of what > > academic > > > freedom requires, and how these requirements fare in the global > > > market > > for > > > higher education, we can shed the embarassment of revealing > > > information about our own experiences with getting the brass ring > > > of a full-time, secure job. > > > > > > Let?s see if anyone picks up on this. Maybe I?m being too vague. > > > > > > Helena Worthen > > > helenaworthen@gmail.com > > > Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 > > > Blog US/ Viet Nam: > > > helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > > skype: helena.worthen1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 19, 2018, at 9:19 AM, Huw Lloyd > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > The article describes accumulating large amounts of knowledge > > pertaining > > > to > > > > history, which (the author maintains) cannot be turned to other > > > endeavours. > > > > This, no doubt, is true for her. If, however, her approach to > studying > > > > history had been systemic, then there would have been a powerful > > > > form > > of > > > > re-application and continuity in any work that was turned to. > > > > Perhaps > > the > > > > same can be said for "phd/postdoc training". If it cannot be > > > > reused > or > > > > isn't enabling, what, substantively, is it? > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > Huw > > > > > > > > > > > > On 18 February 2018 at 18:32, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> Really inspiring words and work, Francine. I do see community > colleges > > > and > > > >> many other educational settings apart from universities as > > > >> really > > > valuable > > > >> and exciting opportunities; the PhD and following postdoc etc > training > > > in > > > >> universities, however, tend to be very much targeted towards a > > > >> very > > > narrow > > > >> spectrum of positions, or at least that's been my experience. I > > > >> am > > very > > > >> happy that this thread may widen that scope and make visible > > > >> other > > > paths. > > > >> And as Mike suggested, it would be very interesting to hear > > > >> from > > several > > > >> others who have followed distinct trajectories apart from the > > > >> phd-postdoc-assist/assoc. prof-prof, and yet made a career in > > > >> touch > > with > > > >> most of what was developed in the junior (phd and few later) years. > > > >> Thanks! > > > >> Alfredo > > > >> ________________________________________ > > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > edu> > > > >> on behalf of Larry Smolucha > > > >> Sent: 18 February 2018 06:20 > > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > >> > > > >> Message from Francine Smolucha on a scholar's life with or > > > >> without > > > academia > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> Alfredo, > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> There are other jobs that pay well (sometimes with tenure and > > > >> early retirement benefits) - besides professorships at four > > > >> year colleges > > and > > > >> universities. Administrative and support staff positions pay well. > > And > > > >> don't overlook community colleges, technical colleges, and > > > >> public > > grade > > > >> schools and high schools. There is also the private sector and > > > government > > > >> jobs. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> As a 'low status' community college professor, I managed to > translate > > > >> Vygotsky's > > > >> > > > >> overlooked writings on creativity (back in the 1980's) and > introduced > > > his > > > >> theory of creativity to academia. I got early retirement at > > > >> age 53 > > and > > > >> continue to write and publish. While my Ph.D from the > > > >> University of > > > Chicago > > > >> gave me academic bona fides, it was the quality of the > > > >> scholarly > work > > > that > > > >> ultimately mattered. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> I was always inspired by the harsh circumstances of Vygotsky's > > > >> life > > and > > > >> how he still kept on writing. > > > >> > > > >> [When I felt really sorry for myself, I would actually say > > > >> "Well at > > > least > > > >> I am not coughing up blood"] > > > >> > > > >> So many of his works were not published in his lifetime, he did not > > > >> collect a royalties check, and they say he was depressed at the > end > > > of > > > >> his life. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> I leave you with this quote from an ancient Sufi mystic - > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> You can't always get what you want but you can get what you > > > >> need > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> . > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> ________________________________ > > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > edu> > > > >> on behalf of mike cole > > > >> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:07 PM > > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > >> > > > >> Yours is a quandary shared by your generation, Alfredo. > > > >> Being allowed to teach and conduct research in a quality > > > >> institution > > is > > > a > > > >> great privilege and an > > > >> increasingly rarer possibility. > > > >> > > > >> There are several people on this list who have organized their > > > >> lives > > to > > > be > > > >> independent scholars > > > >> while staying connected to the core institutions of > > > >> disciplinary > > > training. > > > >> It might be nice to hear > > > >> the variety out there. > > > >> > > > >> It appears pretty certain that the situation is going to get > > > >> worse before/if it gets better. > > > >> > > > >> What can the collective experience of xmca come up with that > > > >> would > be > > > >> useful to the many > > > >> of you caught in this meat grinder? > > > >> > > > >> mike > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > > > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > > > >> wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> Good luck then, Wagner! > > > >>> A > > > >>> ________________________________________ > > > >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > edu > > > > > > > >>> on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit > > > >>> Sent: 18 February 2018 01:07 > > > >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity > > > >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > >>> > > > >>> This just hit me in the spot... > > > >>> > > > >>> Wagner > > > >>> > > > >>> On Feb 17, 2018 9:48 PM, "Alfredo Jornet Gil" > > > >>> > > > > >> wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>>> I have not been able to contribute to this list as much as > > > >>>> I'd > like > > to > > > >>>> lately, among other things, because I need to find a job, and > > > >>>> I > need > > > to > > > >>>> make sure that I have checked all those boxes that selection > > > committees > > > >>>> will check (enough first-authored publications? in good > > > >>>> enough > > > >> journals? > > > >>>> enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? > > > >>>> acquiring > > funds? > > > >>> more > > > >>>> than all others candidates? and more than > > favoured-for-whatever-other- > > > >>> reasons > > > >>>> candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these weeks to > > > >>>> fill > up > > a > > > >>>> competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> And, although I did not think that it was particularly well > written, > > > it > > > >>>> was both relieving and discouraging to read this article (see > > > >>>> link > > > >> below, > > > >>>> which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague who I > > > >>>> think > also > > > >>>> subscribes this list). The article makes visible the pain > > > >>>> scholars > > go > > > >>>> through when, after so many years of digging and digging and > > digging a > > > >>>> little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to leave it and > > > >>>> find > > some > > > >>> other > > > >>>> thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer who was > > > >>>> moving > > > >> through > > > >>>> the world with his lovely family, short-term project after > > short-term > > > >>>> project, getting better and better at what he worked on > (apparently > > he > > > >>> was > > > >>>> among the few who had expertise in computer modeling > > > >>>> simulating > some > > > >>>> astronomic events) , and finally having to step out academia > > > >>>> last > > year > > > >> to > > > >>>> find something else to do, for his family no longer could > > > >>>> stand > the > > > >>>> constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be me soon. And > > > >>>> that > > may > > > >>> not > > > >>>> be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the story > > > >>>> seems to > be > > > >>> quite > > > >>>> endemic to academia and may be interesting to some of you: > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Loses-When/24 > > > >>>> 2560 > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Alfredo > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > From mpacker@cantab.net Sun Feb 25 17:27:49 2018 From: mpacker@cantab.net (Martin Packer) Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2018 20:27:49 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In-Reply-To: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AD5C72@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> <1518914964416.39650@iped.uio.no> <1518978734957.93647@iped.uio.no> <87FCF1E0-1B28-4F92-A85C-9E5A10424B74@gmail.com> <1519110745104.46827@iped.uio.no> <1519598399026.36406@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AD5C72@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> Message-ID: On STEM and social science: <>> On measures of learning: > Martin > On Feb 25, 2018, at 8:15 PM, Glassman, Michael wrote: > > Hi Huw, > > Perhaps the opposite is also true though. STEM researchers can better understand what they are doing if they are well versed in the social sciences. Understand the history and the meaning of what they are doing so they do not act as androids (sorry, been watching the Aliens trilogy of late). Perhaps we made the wrong calculation. We have lost control of our great STEM innovations because the people using them don't understand the social webs that they create. So we have people pushing xMOOCs (whatever happened to MOOCs anyway) as saving education (and also a bundle so everybody gets tax cuts, wheeee!), saying that they are good because they can reach many, the proverbial long tail, with great education (Harvard, Stanford). Yet nobody asks the question, "Why is this a good thing." There really isn't much supporting this in earlier distance education. There is actually more evidence of how dangerous it is (Participatory Action Research). > > Michael > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Huw Lloyd > Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2018 7:32 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > I would ask, what makes you think you have an ecology (or niche)? It seems that the notion of topologically derived ecologies is still bandied about since Bronfenbrenner (1977), though I do not know whether he managed to refine (overhaul and improve) his notions into something integrated and agent-centric. One does not provide an ecology or an environment. The environment is different for everyone, a simple consideration of a rock-face or climbing wall is sufficient to grasp this -- the so called environment (the rock face) is different to each climber, their environment is that which is appropriate to them which includes contexts well beyond what is established in an institution. From what I can gauge, historically, slack was deliberately introduced into courses to afford personal enquiry. > There was the basic work and then there was the genuine enquiry. Who in their right mind wants to write an exam essay on a question they are expected to pre-write and repeat by memory? Why would someone who enjoys thinking about their subject want to go through that kind of impoverished tedium? These systems are obviously geared for "delivery". > > Perhaps the biggest cultural shift can be achieved through instituting joint and personal enquiry. A teacher that stands before their class and delivers their subject inevitably obscures and obstructs the process of enquiry, although many students will have learnt from a young age that this is what to expect and demand. Engagement with genuine problems rather than what students are expected to do is the basic orientational issue. Dispose of grades, then anyone who isn't interested is free to go home. > > The advance of STEM research is probably a good thing for social science. > For productive work, social science must understand the structure of STEM based work, in addition to bureaucratic processes and circumstances for creative work. Sticking one's head in the sand over STEM-like research serves merely to perpetuate the impoverished side of social science. It reminds me of the scene in Pirsig's Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance in which a couple lack the wherewithal to fix a dripping faucet that gives them grief and instead choose to ignore it. Though it was a very long time ago, Pirsig's book may have contributed to my understanding of quality and might be thought of as an exploration of some social issues pertaining to technical enterprises. Another good text to appreciate quality more directly, probably outside the formal area of STEM, is Alshuller's Innovation Algorithm. > > Warm regards to you Henry, Greg, Alfredo. > > Best, > Huw > > On 25 February 2018 at 22:39, Alfredo Jornet Gil > wrote: > >> Greg, Huw, and others, I do often get worried that in the formals and >> informal meetings at our department (department of education), >> conversations tend to focus on the "micro" developments that you >> mention (students, grades, getting a next grant, getting that paper >> published, making sure you've got enough) most of the time, and not so >> much on what society we would like to have, and how our institution >> could/should contribute to that. I do not have any suggestions on the >> type of studies that you ask about?dealing with how ecologies of >> scholarship in academia lead to given developmental dynamics?other >> than the classical studies in STS, like Latour & Woolgar's on >> laboratory life, or S. L. Star's. But when I look forward at what lies >> between me (or anyone in my institution) and a change in the way this >> institution has impact in the life of many, what I see is lots of >> routines, habits, documents, and paperwork entangled in the middle, >> such that the idea "mediation all the way through" makes all the >> sense. And seeing things that way (from the ecological perspective), >> makes the possibility of changing things to look actually feasible, or >> more accurately perhaps, imagine-able. I'd like to continue being part >> of the ecology to be able to be also be part of its changing it. I >> hope others will bring more specific literature to bear. I am already downloading some of Peter Sloterdijk's to read. >> >> Alfredo >> >> >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> on behalf of Greg Thompson >> >> Sent: 24 February 2018 17:45 >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >> >> I appreciate Huw's concern about academia and the push to orient to a >> broader and more systemic concern with "development". I think that >> this is what institutions of higher education are supposed to have, >> right? - at the very least a concern for the development of individual >> "students", but also, one would hope, a concern for "development" at a >> longer timescale (e.g., how to be a better society, a better world). >> They certainly tout these in their promo materials. >> >> And yet, in practice, these institutions often fall back on >> bureaucratic or economic logics. Bureaucratic logic goes something >> like, "just publish (in "good" (i.e., high impact factor) journals), >> who cares what you publish so long as we can count it to determine its (and your) 'value'(!)". >> >> As for the economic logic, I was just talking with Rick Shweder the >> other day about this issue and he expressed the concern about the push >> towards STEM education at the expense of all else and the way that >> STEM buildings are slowly starting to take over his campus (the >> University of Chicago - a place that was long held to be a hold out of >> liberal arts education - apparently they now have an engineering >> program). He suggested that this is tied to an early 80's court >> decision that gave universities ownership of patents developed on their campuses. >> >> To my mind, this calls to mind a concern with ecologies of development >> (across the shorter and longer timescales). What are the ecologies >> (social, economic, political, etc.) within which development (at these >> various >> timescales) occurs in our world today? This is really a question of >> what is possible and/or what is likely with regard to becoming. What >> are the forms of life and forms of development that are sustainable >> given the larger ecologies in which that development happens? >> >> And for thinking through that problem, I've had a hard time thinking >> of anyone who has better thought through this problem than Marx - at >> the longer timescale of development, that is (Vygotsky would, of >> course, be better at thinking through development at the shorter >> timescale of ontogeny). >> >> I'd love to hear others' thoughts on those who have studied activities >> that can begin to shed light on these ecologies of development >> (particularly at the longer timescale). Any thoughts/suggestions? I >> would imagine this work considering various kinds of institutions that >> run the gamut - from venture capitalist firms to non-profits to >> governmental institutions to institutions of higher education. I would >> presume that each of these kinds of institutions would have a local >> ecology within which they work, but I am tempted to imagine some kind >> of global meta-ecology (perhaps Marx's "global >> capitalism"?) within which each of these local ecologies operates. I'd >> be curious about actual research that has been done documenting the >> nature of these ecologies - e.g., what kinds of resources are >> available to be exploited? What kinds of possibilities are there for >> different forms of life? What institutional organisms can thrive? >> Which are dying off? (and just to be clear, I am intending a >> biological/evolutionary nature of the metaphor). >> >> It seems that this kind of work would be most likely to have been done >> by folks in the CHAT world, but perhaps the scale (of time and space) >> is a bit beyond the scales that CHAT folks prefer to consider? >> >> (I should add that I've recently discovered the work of Peter >> Sloterdijk's Bubbles trilogy and am curious if anyone has any thoughts >> on the value of his approach - it seems to fit very well with Marx and >> with CHAT/Vygotsky, my only initial concern was that he seems to fly a >> little fast and loose with pyschoanalytics at times - not a serious >> problem, but perhaps in a few places). >> >> Sympathetically, >> greg >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 1:57 PM, Huw Lloyd >> wrote: >> >>> Well, I would say there is more to it than simply transfer-ability, >>> which might be thought of as a good bureaucratic requirement. Really >>> what is required is genuine development -- reorganisation of thought >>> and >> learning. >>> That is what is significant at a personal level, which is also the >>> basis >> of >>> insights and creative work (i.e. personal knowledge rather than >>> second >> hand >>> knowledge). The researcher in the blog article does not evince this >>> (with allusions to the nature of her training). There is the history >>> school children learn, which largely concerns the use of memory, and >>> then there >> is >>> the history of conditions, relations and processes, which concerns >>> protracted thought. This developmental emphasis is what is lacking >>> in institutions which is why I have frequently pointed it out. >>> >>> This principle apples to "secure" jobs too. The jobs I have walked >>> away from have been due to the overly narrow scope, where I felt it >>> was necessary to be far more ambitious to achieve modest >>> satisfaction, an ambition which included achieving the wider scope >>> within the norms established. Similar issues pertain to my >>> peripheral engagement with academia. Twenty years ago, after >>> completing a masters in cognitive >> science >>> (a good year), I decided against pursuing any further formal >>> education >> with >>> any immediacy due to my sense that what I was encountering in the >>> subject (and related subjects) was fundamentally wrong or >>> inadequate, but I couldn't quite discern what that was. So, for me, >>> I had no interest in furthering the academic course at the time, >>> because I was concerned with understanding, doing, discovering and >>> development, not being a "good researcher". I was and am >>> uninterested in the trappings of academia, what it looks like from >>> the outside (with dubious ethics of promoting those in society who >>> least need it) -- hence I am not too bothered about where the >>> experiences come from. After all, if you want sound knowledge then >>> it should be validated in places where it counts (in action), not in an echo chamber of words. >>> >>>> From my (developmental) perspective academia appears to be >>>> chockfull of >>> unproductive thinking. The lack of systems understanding in the >>> social sciences (which has been pointed out by key persons for two >>> generations) >> I >>> find to be quite incredible. This, as far as I can see, is the >>> panacea to the stasis and lethargy that I have seen in certain >>> institutions, where there are people in secure jobs with no interest >>> in revitalising an institution (perhaps the same people who rely >>> upon their status for authority). In the UK, in the social sciences, >>> the whole social science infrastructure is built upon a notion of >>> quality that is ignorant of systems -- that is the degree to which >>> unproductive thinking has >> penetrated >>> social science. >>> >>> Yet there is much more to it still. Recently I have also come to a >>> surprising awareness that developmental prerogatives have rather a >>> significant amount in common with spiritual ones. So I would offer >> broader >>> advice than Michael's of staying clear of hardship. It may be that >>> in >> that >>> "nadir" something surprising may be discovered. For anyone with a >>> passion "job security" is not a goal, at best it is a means to an >>> ends, at worst >> it >>> is an obstacle. >>> >>> Over and out. :) >>> >>> Best, >>> Huw >>> >>> On 20 February 2018 at 07:12, Alfredo Jornet Gil >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Huw, Helena, and all, >>>> >>>> thanks to you both for taking the discussion where I was hoping it >>>> to >> go >>>> further: first, towards a reflection on the nature of training >>>> academic scholars go through as it concerns the classical problem >>>> of learning "transfer"; and then, as it regards the question of >>>> academic freedom >>> (which >>>> actually may be the same question, just taken in a language more >> adequate >>>> to an ecological understanding of the problem). This is absolutely >>>> not >>> just >>>> an individual problem. And, on that matter, I should be clear that >>>> I >> am a >>>> privileged in a privileged land, where, despite all uncertainty >>>> and >> pains >>>> that my family have gone and go through, I have today a good >>>> background >>> and >>>> network, and probably better prospects than the majority of junior >>> scholars >>>> out there. Not that I have earned this privilege for nothing: my >> migrant >>>> history and that of my family is all connected to an effort and >>>> quest >> to >>>> get better chances of academic opportunity in this market Helena >>>> talks about. But my personal story, as that of the historian in >>>> the article shared or of my French astronomer friend, are relevant >>>> in as far as >> they >>>> help us reflect on just those questions. They really also make one >> wonder >>>> on the sense of the term "academic freedom", for the latter term >>>> cannot >>> be >>>> about doing whatever research you want to do independently of some >> market >>>> conditions and societal needs and economy. We may then pose the >>> questions, >>>> what type of "freedom" is the "freedom" current systems (of >>>> incentives, >>> of >>>> ISI lists) afford, and what type of system could allow for another >>> meaning >>>> of the term "freedom"? >>>> >>>> Not to get too abstract, I guess that those reflections may be >>>> best pondered along concrete cases, if people is willing to take >>>> on Helena's suggestion to share particular stories of all that >>>> goes into getting >> into >>>> secured academic job positions, or else, of pursuing (in)dependent >>> careers >>>> outside/at the borders of/across academia. >>>> >>>> Alfredo >>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>> >> >>>> on behalf of Helena Worthen >>>> Sent: 19 February 2018 19:19 >>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>> >>>> In the interests of widening the discussion: >>>> >>>> I?ve described my work history before on this list ? basically, >>>> moving from teaching literature and writing (with stopovers in >>>> landscape architecture and theater production) to concern about >>>> the working conditions of teachers, especially academics in higher >>>> education, the >> 75% >>>> who are contingent/adjuncts. The concern is both for the people >> employed >>>> this way and for the integrity of the institutions that employ >>>> them. I eventually engaged this concern by working with and for >>>> the labor >>> movement, >>>> ending up first working for the garment/apparel workers union in >>>> Philadelphia and then at the Labor Educaiton Program at the U of >>> Illinois, >>>> from which I retired in 2010. >>>> >>>> The new twist to this story is about the employment of academics >>>> on short-term contracts in Viet Nam, under conditions that seem to >>>> be increasingly frequent in the ?developing? world, where the >>>> market for education is booming. University World News http://www. >>>> universityworldnews.com/ tracks this phenomenon and includes >> occasinal >>>> critical articles about the competition for rankings. The >>>> university >>> where >>>> my husband and I have been teaching on and off since 2015, Ton Duc >> Thang >>> in >>>> Ho Chi Minh City, recruits professors from all over the world with >>>> a promise of $2,000 per month US ? but extending their contracts >>>> depends >> on >>>> producing articles published in journals on the ISI list; the >>>> nature of this list is worth taking a look at. The impact of this >>>> practice on the culture and student body is not all bad. >>>> >>>> My point here is to place the issue of the challenge of getting a >>>> tenure-track job in a global context. This is not just an >>>> individual problem. >>>> >>>> I?m willing to go further down this line of discussion. However, >>> academics >>>> are often reluctant to reveal and compare their working conditions >>>> on >> an >>>> ?academic? discussion list. Maybe by putting up the issue of what >>> academic >>>> freedom requires, and how these requirements fare in the global >>>> market >>> for >>>> higher education, we can shed the embarassment of revealing >>>> information about our own experiences with getting the brass ring >>>> of a full-time, secure job. >>>> >>>> Let?s see if anyone picks up on this. Maybe I?m being too vague. >>>> >>>> Helena Worthen >>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com >>>> Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 >>>> Blog US/ Viet Nam: >>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>>> skype: helena.worthen1 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Feb 19, 2018, at 9:19 AM, Huw Lloyd >>>>> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> The article describes accumulating large amounts of knowledge >>> pertaining >>>> to >>>>> history, which (the author maintains) cannot be turned to other >>>> endeavours. >>>>> This, no doubt, is true for her. If, however, her approach to >> studying >>>>> history had been systemic, then there would have been a powerful >>>>> form >>> of >>>>> re-application and continuity in any work that was turned to. >>>>> Perhaps >>> the >>>>> same can be said for "phd/postdoc training". If it cannot be >>>>> reused >> or >>>>> isn't enabling, what, substantively, is it? >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> Huw >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 18 February 2018 at 18:32, Alfredo Jornet Gil < >> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Really inspiring words and work, Francine. I do see community >> colleges >>>> and >>>>>> many other educational settings apart from universities as >>>>>> really >>>> valuable >>>>>> and exciting opportunities; the PhD and following postdoc etc >> training >>>> in >>>>>> universities, however, tend to be very much targeted towards a >>>>>> very >>>> narrow >>>>>> spectrum of positions, or at least that's been my experience. I >>>>>> am >>> very >>>>>> happy that this thread may widen that scope and make visible >>>>>> other >>>> paths. >>>>>> And as Mike suggested, it would be very interesting to hear >>>>>> from >>> several >>>>>> others who have followed distinct trajectories apart from the >>>>>> phd-postdoc-assist/assoc. prof-prof, and yet made a career in >>>>>> touch >>> with >>>>>> most of what was developed in the junior (phd and few later) years. >>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>> Alfredo >>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> edu> >>>>>> on behalf of Larry Smolucha >>>>>> Sent: 18 February 2018 06:20 >>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>> >>>>>> Message from Francine Smolucha on a scholar's life with or >>>>>> without >>>> academia >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Alfredo, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> There are other jobs that pay well (sometimes with tenure and >>>>>> early retirement benefits) - besides professorships at four >>>>>> year colleges >>> and >>>>>> universities. Administrative and support staff positions pay well. >>> And >>>>>> don't overlook community colleges, technical colleges, and >>>>>> public >>> grade >>>>>> schools and high schools. There is also the private sector and >>>> government >>>>>> jobs. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> As a 'low status' community college professor, I managed to >> translate >>>>>> Vygotsky's >>>>>> >>>>>> overlooked writings on creativity (back in the 1980's) and >> introduced >>>> his >>>>>> theory of creativity to academia. I got early retirement at >>>>>> age 53 >>> and >>>>>> continue to write and publish. While my Ph.D from the >>>>>> University of >>>> Chicago >>>>>> gave me academic bona fides, it was the quality of the >>>>>> scholarly >> work >>>> that >>>>>> ultimately mattered. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I was always inspired by the harsh circumstances of Vygotsky's >>>>>> life >>> and >>>>>> how he still kept on writing. >>>>>> >>>>>> [When I felt really sorry for myself, I would actually say >>>>>> "Well at >>>> least >>>>>> I am not coughing up blood"] >>>>>> >>>>>> So many of his works were not published in his lifetime, he did not >>>>>> collect a royalties check, and they say he was depressed at the >> end >>>> of >>>>>> his life. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I leave you with this quote from an ancient Sufi mystic - >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> You can't always get what you want but you can get what you >>>>>> need >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> edu> >>>>>> on behalf of mike cole >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:07 PM >>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>> >>>>>> Yours is a quandary shared by your generation, Alfredo. >>>>>> Being allowed to teach and conduct research in a quality >>>>>> institution >>> is >>>> a >>>>>> great privilege and an >>>>>> increasingly rarer possibility. >>>>>> >>>>>> There are several people on this list who have organized their >>>>>> lives >>> to >>>> be >>>>>> independent scholars >>>>>> while staying connected to the core institutions of >>>>>> disciplinary >>>> training. >>>>>> It might be nice to hear >>>>>> the variety out there. >>>>>> >>>>>> It appears pretty certain that the situation is going to get >>>>>> worse before/if it gets better. >>>>>> >>>>>> What can the collective experience of xmca come up with that >>>>>> would >> be >>>>>> useful to the many >>>>>> of you caught in this meat grinder? >>>>>> >>>>>> mike >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < >>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Good luck then, Wagner! >>>>>>> A >>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> >> edu >>>>> >>>>>>> on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit >>>>>>> Sent: 18 February 2018 01:07 >>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity >>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This just hit me in the spot... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Wagner >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2018 9:48 PM, "Alfredo Jornet Gil" >>>>>>> >> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have not been able to contribute to this list as much as >>>>>>>> I'd >> like >>> to >>>>>>>> lately, among other things, because I need to find a job, and >>>>>>>> I >> need >>>> to >>>>>>>> make sure that I have checked all those boxes that selection >>>> committees >>>>>>>> will check (enough first-authored publications? in good >>>>>>>> enough >>>>>> journals? >>>>>>>> enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? >>>>>>>> acquiring >>> funds? >>>>>>> more >>>>>>>> than all others candidates? and more than >>> favoured-for-whatever-other- >>>>>>> reasons >>>>>>>> candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these weeks to >>>>>>>> fill >> up >>> a >>>>>>>> competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And, although I did not think that it was particularly well >> written, >>>> it >>>>>>>> was both relieving and discouraging to read this article (see >>>>>>>> link >>>>>> below, >>>>>>>> which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague who I >>>>>>>> think >> also >>>>>>>> subscribes this list). The article makes visible the pain >>>>>>>> scholars >>> go >>>>>>>> through when, after so many years of digging and digging and >>> digging a >>>>>>>> little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to leave it and >>>>>>>> find >>> some >>>>>>> other >>>>>>>> thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer who was >>>>>>>> moving >>>>>> through >>>>>>>> the world with his lovely family, short-term project after >>> short-term >>>>>>>> project, getting better and better at what he worked on >> (apparently >>> he >>>>>>> was >>>>>>>> among the few who had expertise in computer modeling >>>>>>>> simulating >> some >>>>>>>> astronomic events) , and finally having to step out academia >>>>>>>> last >>> year >>>>>> to >>>>>>>> find something else to do, for his family no longer could >>>>>>>> stand >> the >>>>>>>> constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be me soon. And >>>>>>>> that >>> may >>>>>>> not >>>>>>>> be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the story >>>>>>>> seems to >> be >>>>>>> quite >>>>>>>> endemic to academia and may be interesting to some of you: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Loses-When/24 >>>>>>>> 2560 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Alfredo >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >> Assistant Professor >> Department of Anthropology >> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >> Brigham Young University >> Provo, UT 84602 >> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu >> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >> > > From huw.softdesigns@gmail.com Mon Feb 26 02:28:00 2018 From: huw.softdesigns@gmail.com (Huw Lloyd) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2018 10:28:00 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In-Reply-To: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AD5C72@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> <1518914964416.39650@iped.uio.no> <1518978734957.93647@iped.uio.no> <87FCF1E0-1B28-4F92-A85C-9E5A10424B74@gmail.com> <1519110745104.46827@iped.uio.no> <1519598399026.36406@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AD5C72@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> Message-ID: Hi Michael, The issue can be explored in terms of effectiveness. Superficial approaches may succeed (technologically) yet inevitably create messes through a lack of awareness of integration issues. Knowing how to design well entails much improvement in this awareness, with the broader (rarely touched) reaches of design encompassing the developmental and ecological requirements of the practitioners, users, resources, pollution etc . Operationally, however, one can be deemed useful without awareness of this, and the majority of "technological" work is undertaken in ignorance of integration issues. Instead efficiency becomes a priority which is reinforced through bureaucratic procedures. Really, one would probably lose the majority of technologically focused workers in a technical discussion of developmental design. It probably can be considered relatively advanced knowledge, yet it can be reached tractably through technical problem solving. How one would come to an awareness of integration issues without STEM practice (graduating on to systems knowledge) is a different matter, probably only vaguely and ineffectively. Hence the basis for knowledge is not necessarily different between social science and STEM, rather there is a difference in focus, with the asymmetry being derived from their different foci and what is required to be effective. If one considers that the value of social science is in realisation of effective organisation, then it follows that this necessarily requires relatively advanced practices to achieve effective results. Best, Huw On 26 February 2018 at 01:15, Glassman, Michael wrote: > Hi Huw, > > Perhaps the opposite is also true though. STEM researchers can better > understand what they are doing if they are well versed in the social > sciences. Understand the history and the meaning of what they are doing so > they do not act as androids (sorry, been watching the Aliens trilogy of > late). Perhaps we made the wrong calculation. We have lost control of our > great STEM innovations because the people using them don't understand the > social webs that they create. So we have people pushing xMOOCs (whatever > happened to MOOCs anyway) as saving education (and also a bundle so > everybody gets tax cuts, wheeee!), saying that they are good because they > can reach many, the proverbial long tail, with great education (Harvard, > Stanford). Yet nobody asks the question, "Why is this a good thing." There > really isn't much supporting this in earlier distance education. There is > actually more evidence of how dangerous it is (Participatory Action > Research). > > Michael > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Huw Lloyd > Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2018 7:32 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > I would ask, what makes you think you have an ecology (or niche)? It seems > that the notion of topologically derived ecologies is still bandied about > since Bronfenbrenner (1977), though I do not know whether he managed to > refine (overhaul and improve) his notions into something integrated and > agent-centric. One does not provide an ecology or an environment. The > environment is different for everyone, a simple consideration of a > rock-face or climbing wall is sufficient to grasp this -- the so called > environment (the rock face) is different to each climber, their environment > is that which is appropriate to them which includes contexts well beyond > what is established in an institution. From what I can gauge, historically, > slack was deliberately introduced into courses to afford personal enquiry. > There was the basic work and then there was the genuine enquiry. Who in > their right mind wants to write an exam essay on a question they are > expected to pre-write and repeat by memory? Why would someone who enjoys > thinking about their subject want to go through that kind of impoverished > tedium? These systems are obviously geared for "delivery". > > Perhaps the biggest cultural shift can be achieved through instituting > joint and personal enquiry. A teacher that stands before their class and > delivers their subject inevitably obscures and obstructs the process of > enquiry, although many students will have learnt from a young age that this > is what to expect and demand. Engagement with genuine problems rather than > what students are expected to do is the basic orientational issue. Dispose > of grades, then anyone who isn't interested is free to go home. > > The advance of STEM research is probably a good thing for social science. > For productive work, social science must understand the structure of STEM > based work, in addition to bureaucratic processes and circumstances for > creative work. Sticking one's head in the sand over STEM-like research > serves merely to perpetuate the impoverished side of social science. It > reminds me of the scene in Pirsig's Zen and the Art of Motorcycle > Maintenance in which a couple lack the wherewithal to fix a dripping faucet > that gives them grief and instead choose to ignore it. Though it was a very > long time ago, Pirsig's book may have contributed to my understanding of > quality and might be thought of as an exploration of some social issues > pertaining to technical enterprises. Another good text to appreciate > quality more directly, probably outside the formal area of STEM, is > Alshuller's Innovation Algorithm. > > Warm regards to you Henry, Greg, Alfredo. > > Best, > Huw > > On 25 February 2018 at 22:39, Alfredo Jornet Gil > wrote: > > > Greg, Huw, and others, I do often get worried that in the formals and > > informal meetings at our department (department of education), > > conversations tend to focus on the "micro" developments that you > > mention (students, grades, getting a next grant, getting that paper > > published, making sure you've got enough) most of the time, and not so > > much on what society we would like to have, and how our institution > > could/should contribute to that. I do not have any suggestions on the > > type of studies that you ask about?dealing with how ecologies of > > scholarship in academia lead to given developmental dynamics?other > > than the classical studies in STS, like Latour & Woolgar's on > > laboratory life, or S. L. Star's. But when I look forward at what lies > > between me (or anyone in my institution) and a change in the way this > > institution has impact in the life of many, what I see is lots of > > routines, habits, documents, and paperwork entangled in the middle, > > such that the idea "mediation all the way through" makes all the > > sense. And seeing things that way (from the ecological perspective), > > makes the possibility of changing things to look actually feasible, or > > more accurately perhaps, imagine-able. I'd like to continue being part > > of the ecology to be able to be also be part of its changing it. I > > hope others will bring more specific literature to bear. I am already > downloading some of Peter Sloterdijk's to read. > > > > Alfredo > > > > > > > > ________________________________________ > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > on behalf of Greg Thompson > > > > Sent: 24 February 2018 17:45 > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > I appreciate Huw's concern about academia and the push to orient to a > > broader and more systemic concern with "development". I think that > > this is what institutions of higher education are supposed to have, > > right? - at the very least a concern for the development of individual > > "students", but also, one would hope, a concern for "development" at a > > longer timescale (e.g., how to be a better society, a better world). > > They certainly tout these in their promo materials. > > > > And yet, in practice, these institutions often fall back on > > bureaucratic or economic logics. Bureaucratic logic goes something > > like, "just publish (in "good" (i.e., high impact factor) journals), > > who cares what you publish so long as we can count it to determine its > (and your) 'value'(!)". > > > > As for the economic logic, I was just talking with Rick Shweder the > > other day about this issue and he expressed the concern about the push > > towards STEM education at the expense of all else and the way that > > STEM buildings are slowly starting to take over his campus (the > > University of Chicago - a place that was long held to be a hold out of > > liberal arts education - apparently they now have an engineering > > program). He suggested that this is tied to an early 80's court > > decision that gave universities ownership of patents developed on their > campuses. > > > > To my mind, this calls to mind a concern with ecologies of development > > (across the shorter and longer timescales). What are the ecologies > > (social, economic, political, etc.) within which development (at these > > various > > timescales) occurs in our world today? This is really a question of > > what is possible and/or what is likely with regard to becoming. What > > are the forms of life and forms of development that are sustainable > > given the larger ecologies in which that development happens? > > > > And for thinking through that problem, I've had a hard time thinking > > of anyone who has better thought through this problem than Marx - at > > the longer timescale of development, that is (Vygotsky would, of > > course, be better at thinking through development at the shorter > > timescale of ontogeny). > > > > I'd love to hear others' thoughts on those who have studied activities > > that can begin to shed light on these ecologies of development > > (particularly at the longer timescale). Any thoughts/suggestions? I > > would imagine this work considering various kinds of institutions that > > run the gamut - from venture capitalist firms to non-profits to > > governmental institutions to institutions of higher education. I would > > presume that each of these kinds of institutions would have a local > > ecology within which they work, but I am tempted to imagine some kind > > of global meta-ecology (perhaps Marx's "global > > capitalism"?) within which each of these local ecologies operates. I'd > > be curious about actual research that has been done documenting the > > nature of these ecologies - e.g., what kinds of resources are > > available to be exploited? What kinds of possibilities are there for > > different forms of life? What institutional organisms can thrive? > > Which are dying off? (and just to be clear, I am intending a > > biological/evolutionary nature of the metaphor). > > > > It seems that this kind of work would be most likely to have been done > > by folks in the CHAT world, but perhaps the scale (of time and space) > > is a bit beyond the scales that CHAT folks prefer to consider? > > > > (I should add that I've recently discovered the work of Peter > > Sloterdijk's Bubbles trilogy and am curious if anyone has any thoughts > > on the value of his approach - it seems to fit very well with Marx and > > with CHAT/Vygotsky, my only initial concern was that he seems to fly a > > little fast and loose with pyschoanalytics at times - not a serious > > problem, but perhaps in a few places). > > > > Sympathetically, > > greg > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 1:57 PM, Huw Lloyd > > wrote: > > > > > Well, I would say there is more to it than simply transfer-ability, > > > which might be thought of as a good bureaucratic requirement. Really > > > what is required is genuine development -- reorganisation of thought > > > and > > learning. > > > That is what is significant at a personal level, which is also the > > > basis > > of > > > insights and creative work (i.e. personal knowledge rather than > > > second > > hand > > > knowledge). The researcher in the blog article does not evince this > > > (with allusions to the nature of her training). There is the history > > > school children learn, which largely concerns the use of memory, and > > > then there > > is > > > the history of conditions, relations and processes, which concerns > > > protracted thought. This developmental emphasis is what is lacking > > > in institutions which is why I have frequently pointed it out. > > > > > > This principle apples to "secure" jobs too. The jobs I have walked > > > away from have been due to the overly narrow scope, where I felt it > > > was necessary to be far more ambitious to achieve modest > > > satisfaction, an ambition which included achieving the wider scope > > > within the norms established. Similar issues pertain to my > > > peripheral engagement with academia. Twenty years ago, after > > > completing a masters in cognitive > > science > > > (a good year), I decided against pursuing any further formal > > > education > > with > > > any immediacy due to my sense that what I was encountering in the > > > subject (and related subjects) was fundamentally wrong or > > > inadequate, but I couldn't quite discern what that was. So, for me, > > > I had no interest in furthering the academic course at the time, > > > because I was concerned with understanding, doing, discovering and > > > development, not being a "good researcher". I was and am > > > uninterested in the trappings of academia, what it looks like from > > > the outside (with dubious ethics of promoting those in society who > > > least need it) -- hence I am not too bothered about where the > > > experiences come from. After all, if you want sound knowledge then > > > it should be validated in places where it counts (in action), not in > an echo chamber of words. > > > > > > >From my (developmental) perspective academia appears to be > > > >chockfull of > > > unproductive thinking. The lack of systems understanding in the > > > social sciences (which has been pointed out by key persons for two > > > generations) > > I > > > find to be quite incredible. This, as far as I can see, is the > > > panacea to the stasis and lethargy that I have seen in certain > > > institutions, where there are people in secure jobs with no interest > > > in revitalising an institution (perhaps the same people who rely > > > upon their status for authority). In the UK, in the social sciences, > > > the whole social science infrastructure is built upon a notion of > > > quality that is ignorant of systems -- that is the degree to which > > > unproductive thinking has > > penetrated > > > social science. > > > > > > Yet there is much more to it still. Recently I have also come to a > > > surprising awareness that developmental prerogatives have rather a > > > significant amount in common with spiritual ones. So I would offer > > broader > > > advice than Michael's of staying clear of hardship. It may be that > > > in > > that > > > "nadir" something surprising may be discovered. For anyone with a > > > passion "job security" is not a goal, at best it is a means to an > > > ends, at worst > > it > > > is an obstacle. > > > > > > Over and out. :) > > > > > > Best, > > > Huw > > > > > > On 20 February 2018 at 07:12, Alfredo Jornet Gil > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Huw, Helena, and all, > > > > > > > > thanks to you both for taking the discussion where I was hoping it > > > > to > > go > > > > further: first, towards a reflection on the nature of training > > > > academic scholars go through as it concerns the classical problem > > > > of learning "transfer"; and then, as it regards the question of > > > > academic freedom > > > (which > > > > actually may be the same question, just taken in a language more > > adequate > > > > to an ecological understanding of the problem). This is absolutely > > > > not > > > just > > > > an individual problem. And, on that matter, I should be clear that > > > > I > > am a > > > > privileged in a privileged land, where, despite all uncertainty > > > > and > > pains > > > > that my family have gone and go through, I have today a good > > > > background > > > and > > > > network, and probably better prospects than the majority of junior > > > scholars > > > > out there. Not that I have earned this privilege for nothing: my > > migrant > > > > history and that of my family is all connected to an effort and > > > > quest > > to > > > > get better chances of academic opportunity in this market Helena > > > > talks about. But my personal story, as that of the historian in > > > > the article shared or of my French astronomer friend, are relevant > > > > in as far as > > they > > > > help us reflect on just those questions. They really also make one > > wonder > > > > on the sense of the term "academic freedom", for the latter term > > > > cannot > > > be > > > > about doing whatever research you want to do independently of some > > market > > > > conditions and societal needs and economy. We may then pose the > > > questions, > > > > what type of "freedom" is the "freedom" current systems (of > > > > incentives, > > > of > > > > ISI lists) afford, and what type of system could allow for another > > > meaning > > > > of the term "freedom"? > > > > > > > > Not to get too abstract, I guess that those reflections may be > > > > best pondered along concrete cases, if people is willing to take > > > > on Helena's suggestion to share particular stories of all that > > > > goes into getting > > into > > > > secured academic job positions, or else, of pursuing (in)dependent > > > careers > > > > outside/at the borders of/across academia. > > > > > > > > Alfredo > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________ > > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > > > > > > > on behalf of Helena Worthen > > > > Sent: 19 February 2018 19:19 > > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > > > > > In the interests of widening the discussion: > > > > > > > > I?ve described my work history before on this list ? basically, > > > > moving from teaching literature and writing (with stopovers in > > > > landscape architecture and theater production) to concern about > > > > the working conditions of teachers, especially academics in higher > > > > education, the > > 75% > > > > who are contingent/adjuncts. The concern is both for the people > > employed > > > > this way and for the integrity of the institutions that employ > > > > them. I eventually engaged this concern by working with and for > > > > the labor > > > movement, > > > > ending up first working for the garment/apparel workers union in > > > > Philadelphia and then at the Labor Educaiton Program at the U of > > > Illinois, > > > > from which I retired in 2010. > > > > > > > > The new twist to this story is about the employment of academics > > > > on short-term contracts in Viet Nam, under conditions that seem to > > > > be increasingly frequent in the ?developing? world, where the > > > > market for education is booming. University World News http://www. > > > > universityworldnews.com/ tracks this phenomenon and includes > > occasinal > > > > critical articles about the competition for rankings. The > > > > university > > > where > > > > my husband and I have been teaching on and off since 2015, Ton Duc > > Thang > > > in > > > > Ho Chi Minh City, recruits professors from all over the world with > > > > a promise of $2,000 per month US ? but extending their contracts > > > > depends > > on > > > > producing articles published in journals on the ISI list; the > > > > nature of this list is worth taking a look at. The impact of this > > > > practice on the culture and student body is not all bad. > > > > > > > > My point here is to place the issue of the challenge of getting a > > > > tenure-track job in a global context. This is not just an > > > > individual problem. > > > > > > > > I?m willing to go further down this line of discussion. However, > > > academics > > > > are often reluctant to reveal and compare their working conditions > > > > on > > an > > > > ?academic? discussion list. Maybe by putting up the issue of what > > > academic > > > > freedom requires, and how these requirements fare in the global > > > > market > > > for > > > > higher education, we can shed the embarassment of revealing > > > > information about our own experiences with getting the brass ring > > > > of a full-time, secure job. > > > > > > > > Let?s see if anyone picks up on this. Maybe I?m being too vague. > > > > > > > > Helena Worthen > > > > helenaworthen@gmail.com > > > > Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 > > > > Blog US/ Viet Nam: > > > > helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > > > skype: helena.worthen1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 19, 2018, at 9:19 AM, Huw Lloyd > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The article describes accumulating large amounts of knowledge > > > pertaining > > > > to > > > > > history, which (the author maintains) cannot be turned to other > > > > endeavours. > > > > > This, no doubt, is true for her. If, however, her approach to > > studying > > > > > history had been systemic, then there would have been a powerful > > > > > form > > > of > > > > > re-application and continuity in any work that was turned to. > > > > > Perhaps > > > the > > > > > same can be said for "phd/postdoc training". If it cannot be > > > > > reused > > or > > > > > isn't enabling, what, substantively, is it? > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > Huw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 18 February 2018 at 18:32, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> Really inspiring words and work, Francine. I do see community > > colleges > > > > and > > > > >> many other educational settings apart from universities as > > > > >> really > > > > valuable > > > > >> and exciting opportunities; the PhD and following postdoc etc > > training > > > > in > > > > >> universities, however, tend to be very much targeted towards a > > > > >> very > > > > narrow > > > > >> spectrum of positions, or at least that's been my experience. I > > > > >> am > > > very > > > > >> happy that this thread may widen that scope and make visible > > > > >> other > > > > paths. > > > > >> And as Mike suggested, it would be very interesting to hear > > > > >> from > > > several > > > > >> others who have followed distinct trajectories apart from the > > > > >> phd-postdoc-assist/assoc. prof-prof, and yet made a career in > > > > >> touch > > > with > > > > >> most of what was developed in the junior (phd and few later) > years. > > > > >> Thanks! > > > > >> Alfredo > > > > >> ________________________________________ > > > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > edu> > > > > >> on behalf of Larry Smolucha > > > > >> Sent: 18 February 2018 06:20 > > > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > >> > > > > >> Message from Francine Smolucha on a scholar's life with or > > > > >> without > > > > academia > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> Alfredo, > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> There are other jobs that pay well (sometimes with tenure and > > > > >> early retirement benefits) - besides professorships at four > > > > >> year colleges > > > and > > > > >> universities. Administrative and support staff positions pay > well. > > > And > > > > >> don't overlook community colleges, technical colleges, and > > > > >> public > > > grade > > > > >> schools and high schools. There is also the private sector and > > > > government > > > > >> jobs. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> As a 'low status' community college professor, I managed to > > translate > > > > >> Vygotsky's > > > > >> > > > > >> overlooked writings on creativity (back in the 1980's) and > > introduced > > > > his > > > > >> theory of creativity to academia. I got early retirement at > > > > >> age 53 > > > and > > > > >> continue to write and publish. While my Ph.D from the > > > > >> University of > > > > Chicago > > > > >> gave me academic bona fides, it was the quality of the > > > > >> scholarly > > work > > > > that > > > > >> ultimately mattered. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> I was always inspired by the harsh circumstances of Vygotsky's > > > > >> life > > > and > > > > >> how he still kept on writing. > > > > >> > > > > >> [When I felt really sorry for myself, I would actually say > > > > >> "Well at > > > > least > > > > >> I am not coughing up blood"] > > > > >> > > > > >> So many of his works were not published in his lifetime, he did > not > > > > >> collect a royalties check, and they say he was depressed at the > > end > > > > of > > > > >> his life. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> I leave you with this quote from an ancient Sufi mystic - > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> You can't always get what you want but you can get what you > > > > >> need > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> . > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> ________________________________ > > > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > edu> > > > > >> on behalf of mike cole > > > > >> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:07 PM > > > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > >> > > > > >> Yours is a quandary shared by your generation, Alfredo. > > > > >> Being allowed to teach and conduct research in a quality > > > > >> institution > > > is > > > > a > > > > >> great privilege and an > > > > >> increasingly rarer possibility. > > > > >> > > > > >> There are several people on this list who have organized their > > > > >> lives > > > to > > > > be > > > > >> independent scholars > > > > >> while staying connected to the core institutions of > > > > >> disciplinary > > > > training. > > > > >> It might be nice to hear > > > > >> the variety out there. > > > > >> > > > > >> It appears pretty certain that the situation is going to get > > > > >> worse before/if it gets better. > > > > >> > > > > >> What can the collective experience of xmca come up with that > > > > >> would > > be > > > > >> useful to the many > > > > >> of you caught in this meat grinder? > > > > >> > > > > >> mike > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > > > > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > > > > >> wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >>> Good luck then, Wagner! > > > > >>> A > > > > >>> ________________________________________ > > > > >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > edu > > > > > > > > > >>> on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit > > > > >>> Sent: 18 February 2018 01:07 > > > > >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity > > > > >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > >>> > > > > >>> This just hit me in the spot... > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Wagner > > > > >>> > > > > >>> On Feb 17, 2018 9:48 PM, "Alfredo Jornet Gil" > > > > >>> > > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > >>> > > > > >>>> I have not been able to contribute to this list as much as > > > > >>>> I'd > > like > > > to > > > > >>>> lately, among other things, because I need to find a job, and > > > > >>>> I > > need > > > > to > > > > >>>> make sure that I have checked all those boxes that selection > > > > committees > > > > >>>> will check (enough first-authored publications? in good > > > > >>>> enough > > > > >> journals? > > > > >>>> enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? > > > > >>>> acquiring > > > funds? > > > > >>> more > > > > >>>> than all others candidates? and more than > > > favoured-for-whatever-other- > > > > >>> reasons > > > > >>>> candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these weeks to > > > > >>>> fill > > up > > > a > > > > >>>> competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> And, although I did not think that it was particularly well > > written, > > > > it > > > > >>>> was both relieving and discouraging to read this article (see > > > > >>>> link > > > > >> below, > > > > >>>> which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague who I > > > > >>>> think > > also > > > > >>>> subscribes this list). The article makes visible the pain > > > > >>>> scholars > > > go > > > > >>>> through when, after so many years of digging and digging and > > > digging a > > > > >>>> little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to leave it and > > > > >>>> find > > > some > > > > >>> other > > > > >>>> thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer who was > > > > >>>> moving > > > > >> through > > > > >>>> the world with his lovely family, short-term project after > > > short-term > > > > >>>> project, getting better and better at what he worked on > > (apparently > > > he > > > > >>> was > > > > >>>> among the few who had expertise in computer modeling > > > > >>>> simulating > > some > > > > >>>> astronomic events) , and finally having to step out academia > > > > >>>> last > > > year > > > > >> to > > > > >>>> find something else to do, for his family no longer could > > > > >>>> stand > > the > > > > >>>> constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be me soon. And > > > > >>>> that > > > may > > > > >>> not > > > > >>>> be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the story > > > > >>>> seems to > > be > > > > >>> quite > > > > >>>> endemic to academia and may be interesting to some of you: > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Loses-When/24 > > > > >>>> 2560 > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Alfredo > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > > Assistant Professor > > Department of Anthropology > > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > > Brigham Young University > > Provo, UT 84602 > > WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu > > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > > > > From Anne-Nelly.Perret-Clermont@unine.ch Mon Feb 26 03:17:53 2018 From: Anne-Nelly.Perret-Clermont@unine.ch (PERRET-CLERMONT Anne-Nelly) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2018 11:17:53 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In-Reply-To: References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> <1518914964416.39650@iped.uio.no> <1518978734957.93647@iped.uio.no> <87FCF1E0-1B28-4F92-A85C-9E5A10424B74@gmail.com> <1519110745104.46827@iped.uio.no> <1519598399026.36406@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AD5C72@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> Message-ID: Thank you, Martin, for these very interesting resources. A personal experience in my small European country: with my MA students, I used to hold a seminar (once every three weeks during the two final semesters) to analyse with them what they felt they had learned during their years in the University and to analyse also their work experience (most of our students used to earn part of their living via student jobs, or were involved in voluntary work). This was a slow process. At the start, they would only claim the "official" knowledge and skills explicitly taught to them as such. It is only slowly, also through the discussion and the testimonies of the other students, that they came to realize all the other things that they had learned to face/do (for instance: getting organized to deal with delays, job, exams, relatives, etc.; explaining to their family why their studies are valuable; managing relationships with difficult fellow students; using one course to succeed in another (transfer); deciphering foreign languages (because something was there to be gained for their master thesis); archiving texts, videos, etc.; sharing material with others; ethical issues connected to their relation to the teachers met during their research project;managing emotions and especially feelings of doubt in front of their supposed knowledge and skills; etc.etc.): In parallel, they discovered (slowly) that their student jobs required many more elaborated skills than they thought. They had to learn to overcome prejudice, open their eyes and discover their partners? strategies; accept to discuss the difficulties they met (cognitively, technically, emotionally, and in relation with other people at work in these "unskilled" jobs,etc.). And then they would slowly (re-)discover many of the resources that they had acquired during their studies and that they could mobilize (or not - but then it was interesting to understand why not)in their jobs and how all this could be enlarged, or used for further education, job-reorganization, further research, other jobs, etc. etc. But unfortunately, since the Bologna reform and the globalization of the criteria for"quality" and "proper" university management ...year long seminars happening only once every three weeks (a needed delay to have tome to reelect/observe/analyse) are much more difficult to organize. (Yet, admittedly, not impossible to organize). The Bologna reform has also made it much more difficult for students to hold student jobs in parallel to their studies (time delays are more strict; exams are more numerous; the compulsory reading load is heavier; more essays and papers to deliver in short delays; presence is more often compulsory; students are "framed"! ). Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont Prof. em. Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont Institut de psychologie et ?ducation Facult? des lettres et sciences humaines Universit? de Neuch?tel Espace L. Agassiz 1 CH 2000 Neuch?tel (Switzerland) http://www.unine.ch/ipe/publications/anne_nelly_perret_clermont https://www.unine.ch/anne-nelly.perret-clermont/ -----Message d'origine----- De : on behalf of Martin Packer R?pondre ? : "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Date : lundi, 26 f?vrier 2018 02:27 ? : "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Objet : [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship On STEM and social science: <>> On measures of learning: > Martin > On Feb 25, 2018, at 8:15 PM, Glassman, Michael >wrote: > > Hi Huw, > > Perhaps the opposite is also true though. STEM researchers can better >understand what they are doing if they are well versed in the social >sciences. Understand the history and the meaning of what they are doing >so they do not act as androids (sorry, been watching the Aliens trilogy >of late). Perhaps we made the wrong calculation. We have lost control of >our great STEM innovations because the people using them don't understand >the social webs that they create. So we have people pushing xMOOCs >(whatever happened to MOOCs anyway) as saving education (and also a >bundle so everybody gets tax cuts, wheeee!), saying that they are good >because they can reach many, the proverbial long tail, with great >education (Harvard, Stanford). Yet nobody asks the question, "Why is >this a good thing." There really isn't much supporting this in earlier >distance education. There is actually more evidence of how dangerous it >is (Participatory Action Research). > > Michael > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >[mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Huw Lloyd > Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2018 7:32 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > I would ask, what makes you think you have an ecology (or niche)? It >seems that the notion of topologically derived ecologies is still bandied >about since Bronfenbrenner (1977), though I do not know whether he >managed to refine (overhaul and improve) his notions into something >integrated and agent-centric. One does not provide an ecology or an >environment. The environment is different for everyone, a simple >consideration of a rock-face or climbing wall is sufficient to grasp this >-- the so called environment (the rock face) is different to each >climber, their environment is that which is appropriate to them which >includes contexts well beyond what is established in an institution. From >what I can gauge, historically, slack was deliberately introduced into >courses to afford personal enquiry. > There was the basic work and then there was the genuine enquiry. Who in >their right mind wants to write an exam essay on a question they are >expected to pre-write and repeat by memory? Why would someone who enjoys >thinking about their subject want to go through that kind of impoverished >tedium? These systems are obviously geared for "delivery". > > Perhaps the biggest cultural shift can be achieved through instituting >joint and personal enquiry. A teacher that stands before their class and >delivers their subject inevitably obscures and obstructs the process of >enquiry, although many students will have learnt from a young age that >this is what to expect and demand. Engagement with genuine problems >rather than what students are expected to do is the basic orientational >issue. Dispose of grades, then anyone who isn't interested is free to go >home. > > The advance of STEM research is probably a good thing for social science. > For productive work, social science must understand the structure of >STEM based work, in addition to bureaucratic processes and circumstances >for creative work. Sticking one's head in the sand over STEM-like >research serves merely to perpetuate the impoverished side of social >science. It reminds me of the scene in Pirsig's Zen and the Art of >Motorcycle Maintenance in which a couple lack the wherewithal to fix a >dripping faucet that gives them grief and instead choose to ignore it. >Though it was a very long time ago, Pirsig's book may have contributed to >my understanding of quality and might be thought of as an exploration of >some social issues pertaining to technical enterprises. Another good text >to appreciate quality more directly, probably outside the formal area of >STEM, is Alshuller's Innovation Algorithm. > > Warm regards to you Henry, Greg, Alfredo. > > Best, > Huw > > On 25 February 2018 at 22:39, Alfredo Jornet Gil > wrote: > >> Greg, Huw, and others, I do often get worried that in the formals and >> informal meetings at our department (department of education), >> conversations tend to focus on the "micro" developments that you >> mention (students, grades, getting a next grant, getting that paper >> published, making sure you've got enough) most of the time, and not so >> much on what society we would like to have, and how our institution >> could/should contribute to that. I do not have any suggestions on the >> type of studies that you ask about?dealing with how ecologies of >> scholarship in academia lead to given developmental dynamics?other >> than the classical studies in STS, like Latour & Woolgar's on >> laboratory life, or S. L. Star's. But when I look forward at what lies >> between me (or anyone in my institution) and a change in the way this >> institution has impact in the life of many, what I see is lots of >> routines, habits, documents, and paperwork entangled in the middle, >> such that the idea "mediation all the way through" makes all the >> sense. And seeing things that way (from the ecological perspective), >> makes the possibility of changing things to look actually feasible, or >> more accurately perhaps, imagine-able. I'd like to continue being part >> of the ecology to be able to be also be part of its changing it. I >> hope others will bring more specific literature to bear. I am already >>downloading some of Peter Sloterdijk's to read. >> >> Alfredo >> >> >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> on behalf of Greg Thompson >> >> Sent: 24 February 2018 17:45 >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >> >> I appreciate Huw's concern about academia and the push to orient to a >> broader and more systemic concern with "development". I think that >> this is what institutions of higher education are supposed to have, >> right? - at the very least a concern for the development of individual >> "students", but also, one would hope, a concern for "development" at a >> longer timescale (e.g., how to be a better society, a better world). >> They certainly tout these in their promo materials. >> >> And yet, in practice, these institutions often fall back on >> bureaucratic or economic logics. Bureaucratic logic goes something >> like, "just publish (in "good" (i.e., high impact factor) journals), >> who cares what you publish so long as we can count it to determine its >>(and your) 'value'(!)". >> >> As for the economic logic, I was just talking with Rick Shweder the >> other day about this issue and he expressed the concern about the push >> towards STEM education at the expense of all else and the way that >> STEM buildings are slowly starting to take over his campus (the >> University of Chicago - a place that was long held to be a hold out of >> liberal arts education - apparently they now have an engineering >> program). He suggested that this is tied to an early 80's court >> decision that gave universities ownership of patents developed on their >>campuses. >> >> To my mind, this calls to mind a concern with ecologies of development >> (across the shorter and longer timescales). What are the ecologies >> (social, economic, political, etc.) within which development (at these >> various >> timescales) occurs in our world today? This is really a question of >> what is possible and/or what is likely with regard to becoming. What >> are the forms of life and forms of development that are sustainable >> given the larger ecologies in which that development happens? >> >> And for thinking through that problem, I've had a hard time thinking >> of anyone who has better thought through this problem than Marx - at >> the longer timescale of development, that is (Vygotsky would, of >> course, be better at thinking through development at the shorter >> timescale of ontogeny). >> >> I'd love to hear others' thoughts on those who have studied activities >> that can begin to shed light on these ecologies of development >> (particularly at the longer timescale). Any thoughts/suggestions? I >> would imagine this work considering various kinds of institutions that >> run the gamut - from venture capitalist firms to non-profits to >> governmental institutions to institutions of higher education. I would >> presume that each of these kinds of institutions would have a local >> ecology within which they work, but I am tempted to imagine some kind >> of global meta-ecology (perhaps Marx's "global >> capitalism"?) within which each of these local ecologies operates. I'd >> be curious about actual research that has been done documenting the >> nature of these ecologies - e.g., what kinds of resources are >> available to be exploited? What kinds of possibilities are there for >> different forms of life? What institutional organisms can thrive? >> Which are dying off? (and just to be clear, I am intending a >> biological/evolutionary nature of the metaphor). >> >> It seems that this kind of work would be most likely to have been done >> by folks in the CHAT world, but perhaps the scale (of time and space) >> is a bit beyond the scales that CHAT folks prefer to consider? >> >> (I should add that I've recently discovered the work of Peter >> Sloterdijk's Bubbles trilogy and am curious if anyone has any thoughts >> on the value of his approach - it seems to fit very well with Marx and >> with CHAT/Vygotsky, my only initial concern was that he seems to fly a >> little fast and loose with pyschoanalytics at times - not a serious >> problem, but perhaps in a few places). >> >> Sympathetically, >> greg >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 1:57 PM, Huw Lloyd >> wrote: >> >>> Well, I would say there is more to it than simply transfer-ability, >>> which might be thought of as a good bureaucratic requirement. Really >>> what is required is genuine development -- reorganisation of thought >>> and >> learning. >>> That is what is significant at a personal level, which is also the >>> basis >> of >>> insights and creative work (i.e. personal knowledge rather than >>> second >> hand >>> knowledge). The researcher in the blog article does not evince this >>> (with allusions to the nature of her training). There is the history >>> school children learn, which largely concerns the use of memory, and >>> then there >> is >>> the history of conditions, relations and processes, which concerns >>> protracted thought. This developmental emphasis is what is lacking >>> in institutions which is why I have frequently pointed it out. >>> >>> This principle apples to "secure" jobs too. The jobs I have walked >>> away from have been due to the overly narrow scope, where I felt it >>> was necessary to be far more ambitious to achieve modest >>> satisfaction, an ambition which included achieving the wider scope >>> within the norms established. Similar issues pertain to my >>> peripheral engagement with academia. Twenty years ago, after >>> completing a masters in cognitive >> science >>> (a good year), I decided against pursuing any further formal >>> education >> with >>> any immediacy due to my sense that what I was encountering in the >>> subject (and related subjects) was fundamentally wrong or >>> inadequate, but I couldn't quite discern what that was. So, for me, >>> I had no interest in furthering the academic course at the time, >>> because I was concerned with understanding, doing, discovering and >>> development, not being a "good researcher". I was and am >>> uninterested in the trappings of academia, what it looks like from >>> the outside (with dubious ethics of promoting those in society who >>> least need it) -- hence I am not too bothered about where the >>> experiences come from. After all, if you want sound knowledge then >>> it should be validated in places where it counts (in action), not in >>>an echo chamber of words. >>> >>>> From my (developmental) perspective academia appears to be >>>> chockfull of >>> unproductive thinking. The lack of systems understanding in the >>> social sciences (which has been pointed out by key persons for two >>> generations) >> I >>> find to be quite incredible. This, as far as I can see, is the >>> panacea to the stasis and lethargy that I have seen in certain >>> institutions, where there are people in secure jobs with no interest >>> in revitalising an institution (perhaps the same people who rely >>> upon their status for authority). In the UK, in the social sciences, >>> the whole social science infrastructure is built upon a notion of >>> quality that is ignorant of systems -- that is the degree to which >>> unproductive thinking has >> penetrated >>> social science. >>> >>> Yet there is much more to it still. Recently I have also come to a >>> surprising awareness that developmental prerogatives have rather a >>> significant amount in common with spiritual ones. So I would offer >> broader >>> advice than Michael's of staying clear of hardship. It may be that >>> in >> that >>> "nadir" something surprising may be discovered. For anyone with a >>> passion "job security" is not a goal, at best it is a means to an >>> ends, at worst >> it >>> is an obstacle. >>> >>> Over and out. :) >>> >>> Best, >>> Huw >>> >>> On 20 February 2018 at 07:12, Alfredo Jornet Gil >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Huw, Helena, and all, >>>> >>>> thanks to you both for taking the discussion where I was hoping it >>>> to >> go >>>> further: first, towards a reflection on the nature of training >>>> academic scholars go through as it concerns the classical problem >>>> of learning "transfer"; and then, as it regards the question of >>>> academic freedom >>> (which >>>> actually may be the same question, just taken in a language more >> adequate >>>> to an ecological understanding of the problem). This is absolutely >>>> not >>> just >>>> an individual problem. And, on that matter, I should be clear that >>>> I >> am a >>>> privileged in a privileged land, where, despite all uncertainty >>>> and >> pains >>>> that my family have gone and go through, I have today a good >>>> background >>> and >>>> network, and probably better prospects than the majority of junior >>> scholars >>>> out there. Not that I have earned this privilege for nothing: my >> migrant >>>> history and that of my family is all connected to an effort and >>>> quest >> to >>>> get better chances of academic opportunity in this market Helena >>>> talks about. But my personal story, as that of the historian in >>>> the article shared or of my French astronomer friend, are relevant >>>> in as far as >> they >>>> help us reflect on just those questions. They really also make one >> wonder >>>> on the sense of the term "academic freedom", for the latter term >>>> cannot >>> be >>>> about doing whatever research you want to do independently of some >> market >>>> conditions and societal needs and economy. We may then pose the >>> questions, >>>> what type of "freedom" is the "freedom" current systems (of >>>> incentives, >>> of >>>> ISI lists) afford, and what type of system could allow for another >>> meaning >>>> of the term "freedom"? >>>> >>>> Not to get too abstract, I guess that those reflections may be >>>> best pondered along concrete cases, if people is willing to take >>>> on Helena's suggestion to share particular stories of all that >>>> goes into getting >> into >>>> secured academic job positions, or else, of pursuing (in)dependent >>> careers >>>> outside/at the borders of/across academia. >>>> >>>> Alfredo >>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>> >> >>>> on behalf of Helena Worthen >>>> Sent: 19 February 2018 19:19 >>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>> >>>> In the interests of widening the discussion: >>>> >>>> I?ve described my work history before on this list ? basically, >>>> moving from teaching literature and writing (with stopovers in >>>> landscape architecture and theater production) to concern about >>>> the working conditions of teachers, especially academics in higher >>>> education, the >> 75% >>>> who are contingent/adjuncts. The concern is both for the people >> employed >>>> this way and for the integrity of the institutions that employ >>>> them. I eventually engaged this concern by working with and for >>>> the labor >>> movement, >>>> ending up first working for the garment/apparel workers union in >>>> Philadelphia and then at the Labor Educaiton Program at the U of >>> Illinois, >>>> from which I retired in 2010. >>>> >>>> The new twist to this story is about the employment of academics >>>> on short-term contracts in Viet Nam, under conditions that seem to >>>> be increasingly frequent in the ?developing? world, where the >>>> market for education is booming. University World News http://www. >>>> universityworldnews.com/ tracks this phenomenon and includes >> occasinal >>>> critical articles about the competition for rankings. The >>>> university >>> where >>>> my husband and I have been teaching on and off since 2015, Ton Duc >> Thang >>> in >>>> Ho Chi Minh City, recruits professors from all over the world with >>>> a promise of $2,000 per month US ? but extending their contracts >>>> depends >> on >>>> producing articles published in journals on the ISI list; the >>>> nature of this list is worth taking a look at. The impact of this >>>> practice on the culture and student body is not all bad. >>>> >>>> My point here is to place the issue of the challenge of getting a >>>> tenure-track job in a global context. This is not just an >>>> individual problem. >>>> >>>> I?m willing to go further down this line of discussion. However, >>> academics >>>> are often reluctant to reveal and compare their working conditions >>>> on >> an >>>> ?academic? discussion list. Maybe by putting up the issue of what >>> academic >>>> freedom requires, and how these requirements fare in the global >>>> market >>> for >>>> higher education, we can shed the embarassment of revealing >>>> information about our own experiences with getting the brass ring >>>> of a full-time, secure job. >>>> >>>> Let?s see if anyone picks up on this. Maybe I?m being too vague. >>>> >>>> Helena Worthen >>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com >>>> Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 >>>> Blog US/ Viet Nam: >>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>>> skype: helena.worthen1 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Feb 19, 2018, at 9:19 AM, Huw Lloyd >>>>> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> The article describes accumulating large amounts of knowledge >>> pertaining >>>> to >>>>> history, which (the author maintains) cannot be turned to other >>>> endeavours. >>>>> This, no doubt, is true for her. If, however, her approach to >> studying >>>>> history had been systemic, then there would have been a powerful >>>>> form >>> of >>>>> re-application and continuity in any work that was turned to. >>>>> Perhaps >>> the >>>>> same can be said for "phd/postdoc training". If it cannot be >>>>> reused >> or >>>>> isn't enabling, what, substantively, is it? >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> Huw >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 18 February 2018 at 18:32, Alfredo Jornet Gil < >> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Really inspiring words and work, Francine. I do see community >> colleges >>>> and >>>>>> many other educational settings apart from universities as >>>>>> really >>>> valuable >>>>>> and exciting opportunities; the PhD and following postdoc etc >> training >>>> in >>>>>> universities, however, tend to be very much targeted towards a >>>>>> very >>>> narrow >>>>>> spectrum of positions, or at least that's been my experience. I >>>>>> am >>> very >>>>>> happy that this thread may widen that scope and make visible >>>>>> other >>>> paths. >>>>>> And as Mike suggested, it would be very interesting to hear >>>>>> from >>> several >>>>>> others who have followed distinct trajectories apart from the >>>>>> phd-postdoc-assist/assoc. prof-prof, and yet made a career in >>>>>> touch >>> with >>>>>> most of what was developed in the junior (phd and few later) years. >>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>> Alfredo >>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> edu> >>>>>> on behalf of Larry Smolucha >>>>>> Sent: 18 February 2018 06:20 >>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>> >>>>>> Message from Francine Smolucha on a scholar's life with or >>>>>> without >>>> academia >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Alfredo, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> There are other jobs that pay well (sometimes with tenure and >>>>>> early retirement benefits) - besides professorships at four >>>>>> year colleges >>> and >>>>>> universities. Administrative and support staff positions pay well. >>> And >>>>>> don't overlook community colleges, technical colleges, and >>>>>> public >>> grade >>>>>> schools and high schools. There is also the private sector and >>>> government >>>>>> jobs. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> As a 'low status' community college professor, I managed to >> translate >>>>>> Vygotsky's >>>>>> >>>>>> overlooked writings on creativity (back in the 1980's) and >> introduced >>>> his >>>>>> theory of creativity to academia. I got early retirement at >>>>>> age 53 >>> and >>>>>> continue to write and publish. While my Ph.D from the >>>>>> University of >>>> Chicago >>>>>> gave me academic bona fides, it was the quality of the >>>>>> scholarly >> work >>>> that >>>>>> ultimately mattered. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I was always inspired by the harsh circumstances of Vygotsky's >>>>>> life >>> and >>>>>> how he still kept on writing. >>>>>> >>>>>> [When I felt really sorry for myself, I would actually say >>>>>> "Well at >>>> least >>>>>> I am not coughing up blood"] >>>>>> >>>>>> So many of his works were not published in his lifetime, he did not >>>>>> collect a royalties check, and they say he was depressed at the >> end >>>> of >>>>>> his life. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I leave you with this quote from an ancient Sufi mystic - >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> You can't always get what you want but you can get what you >>>>>> need >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> edu> >>>>>> on behalf of mike cole >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:07 PM >>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>> >>>>>> Yours is a quandary shared by your generation, Alfredo. >>>>>> Being allowed to teach and conduct research in a quality >>>>>> institution >>> is >>>> a >>>>>> great privilege and an >>>>>> increasingly rarer possibility. >>>>>> >>>>>> There are several people on this list who have organized their >>>>>> lives >>> to >>>> be >>>>>> independent scholars >>>>>> while staying connected to the core institutions of >>>>>> disciplinary >>>> training. >>>>>> It might be nice to hear >>>>>> the variety out there. >>>>>> >>>>>> It appears pretty certain that the situation is going to get >>>>>> worse before/if it gets better. >>>>>> >>>>>> What can the collective experience of xmca come up with that >>>>>> would >> be >>>>>> useful to the many >>>>>> of you caught in this meat grinder? >>>>>> >>>>>> mike >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < >>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Good luck then, Wagner! >>>>>>> A >>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> >> edu >>>>> >>>>>>> on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit >>>>>>> Sent: 18 February 2018 01:07 >>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity >>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This just hit me in the spot... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Wagner >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2018 9:48 PM, "Alfredo Jornet Gil" >>>>>>> >> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have not been able to contribute to this list as much as >>>>>>>> I'd >> like >>> to >>>>>>>> lately, among other things, because I need to find a job, and >>>>>>>> I >> need >>>> to >>>>>>>> make sure that I have checked all those boxes that selection >>>> committees >>>>>>>> will check (enough first-authored publications? in good >>>>>>>> enough >>>>>> journals? >>>>>>>> enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? >>>>>>>> acquiring >>> funds? >>>>>>> more >>>>>>>> than all others candidates? and more than >>> favoured-for-whatever-other- >>>>>>> reasons >>>>>>>> candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these weeks to >>>>>>>> fill >> up >>> a >>>>>>>> competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And, although I did not think that it was particularly well >> written, >>>> it >>>>>>>> was both relieving and discouraging to read this article (see >>>>>>>> link >>>>>> below, >>>>>>>> which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague who I >>>>>>>> think >> also >>>>>>>> subscribes this list). The article makes visible the pain >>>>>>>> scholars >>> go >>>>>>>> through when, after so many years of digging and digging and >>> digging a >>>>>>>> little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to leave it and >>>>>>>> find >>> some >>>>>>> other >>>>>>>> thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer who was >>>>>>>> moving >>>>>> through >>>>>>>> the world with his lovely family, short-term project after >>> short-term >>>>>>>> project, getting better and better at what he worked on >> (apparently >>> he >>>>>>> was >>>>>>>> among the few who had expertise in computer modeling >>>>>>>> simulating >> some >>>>>>>> astronomic events) , and finally having to step out academia >>>>>>>> last >>> year >>>>>> to >>>>>>>> find something else to do, for his family no longer could >>>>>>>> stand >> the >>>>>>>> constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be me soon. And >>>>>>>> that >>> may >>>>>>> not >>>>>>>> be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the story >>>>>>>> seems to >> be >>>>>>> quite >>>>>>>> endemic to academia and may be interesting to some of you: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Loses-When/24 >>>>>>>> 2560 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Alfredo >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >> Assistant Professor >> Department of Anthropology >> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >> Brigham Young University >> Provo, UT 84602 >> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu >> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >> > > From glassman.13@osu.edu Mon Feb 26 05:32:45 2018 From: glassman.13@osu.edu (Glassman, Michael) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2018 13:32:45 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In-Reply-To: References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> <1518914964416.39650@iped.uio.no> <1518978734957.93647@iped.uio.no> <87FCF1E0-1B28-4F92-A85C-9E5A10424B74@gmail.com> <1519110745104.46827@iped.uio.no> <1519598399026.36406@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AD5C72@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> Message-ID: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AD5D10@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> Hi Huw, Thanks for the response. I'm not really sure I'm understanding what you are trying to say. I was going to say what I think, but I'm not sure I have enough of a grasp of your point for it to be effective. Michael -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Huw Lloyd Sent: Monday, February 26, 2018 5:28 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship Hi Michael, The issue can be explored in terms of effectiveness. Superficial approaches may succeed (technologically) yet inevitably create messes through a lack of awareness of integration issues. Knowing how to design well entails much improvement in this awareness, with the broader (rarely touched) reaches of design encompassing the developmental and ecological requirements of the practitioners, users, resources, pollution etc . Operationally, however, one can be deemed useful without awareness of this, and the majority of "technological" work is undertaken in ignorance of integration issues. Instead efficiency becomes a priority which is reinforced through bureaucratic procedures. Really, one would probably lose the majority of technologically focused workers in a technical discussion of developmental design. It probably can be considered relatively advanced knowledge, yet it can be reached tractably through technical problem solving. How one would come to an awareness of integration issues without STEM practice (graduating on to systems knowledge) is a different matter, probably only vaguely and ineffectively. Hence the basis for knowledge is not necessarily different between social science and STEM, rather there is a difference in focus, with the asymmetry being derived from their different foci and what is required to be effective. If one considers that the value of social science is in realisation of effective organisation, then it follows that this necessarily requires relatively advanced practices to achieve effective results. Best, Huw On 26 February 2018 at 01:15, Glassman, Michael wrote: > Hi Huw, > > Perhaps the opposite is also true though. STEM researchers can better > understand what they are doing if they are well versed in the social > sciences. Understand the history and the meaning of what they are > doing so they do not act as androids (sorry, been watching the Aliens > trilogy of late). Perhaps we made the wrong calculation. We have lost > control of our great STEM innovations because the people using them > don't understand the social webs that they create. So we have people > pushing xMOOCs (whatever happened to MOOCs anyway) as saving education > (and also a bundle so everybody gets tax cuts, wheeee!), saying that > they are good because they can reach many, the proverbial long tail, > with great education (Harvard, Stanford). Yet nobody asks the > question, "Why is this a good thing." There really isn't much > supporting this in earlier distance education. There is actually more > evidence of how dangerous it is (Participatory Action Research). > > Michael > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Huw Lloyd > Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2018 7:32 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > I would ask, what makes you think you have an ecology (or niche)? It > seems that the notion of topologically derived ecologies is still > bandied about since Bronfenbrenner (1977), though I do not know > whether he managed to refine (overhaul and improve) his notions into > something integrated and agent-centric. One does not provide an > ecology or an environment. The environment is different for everyone, > a simple consideration of a rock-face or climbing wall is sufficient > to grasp this -- the so called environment (the rock face) is > different to each climber, their environment is that which is > appropriate to them which includes contexts well beyond what is > established in an institution. From what I can gauge, historically, slack was deliberately introduced into courses to afford personal enquiry. > There was the basic work and then there was the genuine enquiry. Who > in their right mind wants to write an exam essay on a question they > are expected to pre-write and repeat by memory? Why would someone who > enjoys thinking about their subject want to go through that kind of > impoverished tedium? These systems are obviously geared for "delivery". > > Perhaps the biggest cultural shift can be achieved through instituting > joint and personal enquiry. A teacher that stands before their class > and delivers their subject inevitably obscures and obstructs the > process of enquiry, although many students will have learnt from a > young age that this is what to expect and demand. Engagement with > genuine problems rather than what students are expected to do is the > basic orientational issue. Dispose of grades, then anyone who isn't interested is free to go home. > > The advance of STEM research is probably a good thing for social science. > For productive work, social science must understand the structure of > STEM based work, in addition to bureaucratic processes and > circumstances for creative work. Sticking one's head in the sand over > STEM-like research serves merely to perpetuate the impoverished side > of social science. It reminds me of the scene in Pirsig's Zen and the > Art of Motorcycle Maintenance in which a couple lack the wherewithal > to fix a dripping faucet that gives them grief and instead choose to > ignore it. Though it was a very long time ago, Pirsig's book may have > contributed to my understanding of quality and might be thought of as > an exploration of some social issues pertaining to technical > enterprises. Another good text to appreciate quality more directly, > probably outside the formal area of STEM, is Alshuller's Innovation Algorithm. > > Warm regards to you Henry, Greg, Alfredo. > > Best, > Huw > > On 25 February 2018 at 22:39, Alfredo Jornet Gil > wrote: > > > Greg, Huw, and others, I do often get worried that in the formals > > and informal meetings at our department (department of education), > > conversations tend to focus on the "micro" developments that you > > mention (students, grades, getting a next grant, getting that paper > > published, making sure you've got enough) most of the time, and not > > so much on what society we would like to have, and how our > > institution could/should contribute to that. I do not have any > > suggestions on the type of studies that you ask about?dealing with > > how ecologies of scholarship in academia lead to given developmental > > dynamics?other than the classical studies in STS, like Latour & > > Woolgar's on laboratory life, or S. L. Star's. But when I look > > forward at what lies between me (or anyone in my institution) and a > > change in the way this institution has impact in the life of many, > > what I see is lots of routines, habits, documents, and paperwork > > entangled in the middle, such that the idea "mediation all the way > > through" makes all the sense. And seeing things that way (from the > > ecological perspective), makes the possibility of changing things to > > look actually feasible, or more accurately perhaps, imagine-able. > > I'd like to continue being part of the ecology to be able to be also > > be part of its changing it. I hope others will bring more specific > > literature to bear. I am already > downloading some of Peter Sloterdijk's to read. > > > > Alfredo > > > > > > > > ________________________________________ > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > on behalf of Greg Thompson > > > > Sent: 24 February 2018 17:45 > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > I appreciate Huw's concern about academia and the push to orient to > > a broader and more systemic concern with "development". I think that > > this is what institutions of higher education are supposed to have, > > right? - at the very least a concern for the development of > > individual "students", but also, one would hope, a concern for > > "development" at a longer timescale (e.g., how to be a better society, a better world). > > They certainly tout these in their promo materials. > > > > And yet, in practice, these institutions often fall back on > > bureaucratic or economic logics. Bureaucratic logic goes something > > like, "just publish (in "good" (i.e., high impact factor) journals), > > who cares what you publish so long as we can count it to determine > > its > (and your) 'value'(!)". > > > > As for the economic logic, I was just talking with Rick Shweder the > > other day about this issue and he expressed the concern about the > > push towards STEM education at the expense of all else and the way > > that STEM buildings are slowly starting to take over his campus (the > > University of Chicago - a place that was long held to be a hold out > > of liberal arts education - apparently they now have an engineering > > program). He suggested that this is tied to an early 80's court > > decision that gave universities ownership of patents developed on > > their > campuses. > > > > To my mind, this calls to mind a concern with ecologies of > > development (across the shorter and longer timescales). What are the > > ecologies (social, economic, political, etc.) within which > > development (at these various > > timescales) occurs in our world today? This is really a question of > > what is possible and/or what is likely with regard to becoming. What > > are the forms of life and forms of development that are sustainable > > given the larger ecologies in which that development happens? > > > > And for thinking through that problem, I've had a hard time thinking > > of anyone who has better thought through this problem than Marx - at > > the longer timescale of development, that is (Vygotsky would, of > > course, be better at thinking through development at the shorter > > timescale of ontogeny). > > > > I'd love to hear others' thoughts on those who have studied > > activities that can begin to shed light on these ecologies of > > development (particularly at the longer timescale). Any > > thoughts/suggestions? I would imagine this work considering various > > kinds of institutions that run the gamut - from venture capitalist > > firms to non-profits to governmental institutions to institutions of > > higher education. I would presume that each of these kinds of > > institutions would have a local ecology within which they work, but > > I am tempted to imagine some kind of global meta-ecology (perhaps > > Marx's "global > > capitalism"?) within which each of these local ecologies operates. > > I'd be curious about actual research that has been done documenting > > the nature of these ecologies - e.g., what kinds of resources are > > available to be exploited? What kinds of possibilities are there for > > different forms of life? What institutional organisms can thrive? > > Which are dying off? (and just to be clear, I am intending a > > biological/evolutionary nature of the metaphor). > > > > It seems that this kind of work would be most likely to have been > > done by folks in the CHAT world, but perhaps the scale (of time and > > space) is a bit beyond the scales that CHAT folks prefer to consider? > > > > (I should add that I've recently discovered the work of Peter > > Sloterdijk's Bubbles trilogy and am curious if anyone has any > > thoughts on the value of his approach - it seems to fit very well > > with Marx and with CHAT/Vygotsky, my only initial concern was that > > he seems to fly a little fast and loose with pyschoanalytics at > > times - not a serious problem, but perhaps in a few places). > > > > Sympathetically, > > greg > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 1:57 PM, Huw Lloyd > > > > wrote: > > > > > Well, I would say there is more to it than simply > > > transfer-ability, which might be thought of as a good bureaucratic > > > requirement. Really what is required is genuine development -- > > > reorganisation of thought and > > learning. > > > That is what is significant at a personal level, which is also the > > > basis > > of > > > insights and creative work (i.e. personal knowledge rather than > > > second > > hand > > > knowledge). The researcher in the blog article does not evince > > > this (with allusions to the nature of her training). There is the > > > history school children learn, which largely concerns the use of > > > memory, and then there > > is > > > the history of conditions, relations and processes, which concerns > > > protracted thought. This developmental emphasis is what is lacking > > > in institutions which is why I have frequently pointed it out. > > > > > > This principle apples to "secure" jobs too. The jobs I have walked > > > away from have been due to the overly narrow scope, where I felt > > > it was necessary to be far more ambitious to achieve modest > > > satisfaction, an ambition which included achieving the wider scope > > > within the norms established. Similar issues pertain to my > > > peripheral engagement with academia. Twenty years ago, after > > > completing a masters in cognitive > > science > > > (a good year), I decided against pursuing any further formal > > > education > > with > > > any immediacy due to my sense that what I was encountering in the > > > subject (and related subjects) was fundamentally wrong or > > > inadequate, but I couldn't quite discern what that was. So, for > > > me, I had no interest in furthering the academic course at the > > > time, because I was concerned with understanding, doing, > > > discovering and development, not being a "good researcher". I was > > > and am uninterested in the trappings of academia, what it looks > > > like from the outside (with dubious ethics of promoting those in > > > society who least need it) -- hence I am not too bothered about > > > where the experiences come from. After all, if you want sound > > > knowledge then it should be validated in places where it counts > > > (in action), not in > an echo chamber of words. > > > > > > >From my (developmental) perspective academia appears to be > > > >chockfull of > > > unproductive thinking. The lack of systems understanding in the > > > social sciences (which has been pointed out by key persons for two > > > generations) > > I > > > find to be quite incredible. This, as far as I can see, is the > > > panacea to the stasis and lethargy that I have seen in certain > > > institutions, where there are people in secure jobs with no > > > interest in revitalising an institution (perhaps the same people > > > who rely upon their status for authority). In the UK, in the > > > social sciences, the whole social science infrastructure is built > > > upon a notion of quality that is ignorant of systems -- that is > > > the degree to which unproductive thinking has > > penetrated > > > social science. > > > > > > Yet there is much more to it still. Recently I have also come to a > > > surprising awareness that developmental prerogatives have rather a > > > significant amount in common with spiritual ones. So I would offer > > broader > > > advice than Michael's of staying clear of hardship. It may be that > > > in > > that > > > "nadir" something surprising may be discovered. For anyone with a > > > passion "job security" is not a goal, at best it is a means to an > > > ends, at worst > > it > > > is an obstacle. > > > > > > Over and out. :) > > > > > > Best, > > > Huw > > > > > > On 20 February 2018 at 07:12, Alfredo Jornet Gil > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Huw, Helena, and all, > > > > > > > > thanks to you both for taking the discussion where I was hoping > > > > it to > > go > > > > further: first, towards a reflection on the nature of training > > > > academic scholars go through as it concerns the classical > > > > problem of learning "transfer"; and then, as it regards the > > > > question of academic freedom > > > (which > > > > actually may be the same question, just taken in a language more > > adequate > > > > to an ecological understanding of the problem). This is > > > > absolutely not > > > just > > > > an individual problem. And, on that matter, I should be clear > > > > that I > > am a > > > > privileged in a privileged land, where, despite all uncertainty > > > > and > > pains > > > > that my family have gone and go through, I have today a good > > > > background > > > and > > > > network, and probably better prospects than the majority of > > > > junior > > > scholars > > > > out there. Not that I have earned this privilege for nothing: my > > migrant > > > > history and that of my family is all connected to an effort and > > > > quest > > to > > > > get better chances of academic opportunity in this market Helena > > > > talks about. But my personal story, as that of the historian in > > > > the article shared or of my French astronomer friend, are > > > > relevant in as far as > > they > > > > help us reflect on just those questions. They really also make > > > > one > > wonder > > > > on the sense of the term "academic freedom", for the latter term > > > > cannot > > > be > > > > about doing whatever research you want to do independently of > > > > some > > market > > > > conditions and societal needs and economy. We may then pose the > > > questions, > > > > what type of "freedom" is the "freedom" current systems (of > > > > incentives, > > > of > > > > ISI lists) afford, and what type of system could allow for > > > > another > > > meaning > > > > of the term "freedom"? > > > > > > > > Not to get too abstract, I guess that those reflections may be > > > > best pondered along concrete cases, if people is willing to take > > > > on Helena's suggestion to share particular stories of all that > > > > goes into getting > > into > > > > secured academic job positions, or else, of pursuing > > > > (in)dependent > > > careers > > > > outside/at the borders of/across academia. > > > > > > > > Alfredo > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________ > > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > > > > > > > on behalf of Helena Worthen > > > > Sent: 19 February 2018 19:19 > > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > > > > > In the interests of widening the discussion: > > > > > > > > I?ve described my work history before on this list ? basically, > > > > moving from teaching literature and writing (with stopovers in > > > > landscape architecture and theater production) to concern about > > > > the working conditions of teachers, especially academics in > > > > higher education, the > > 75% > > > > who are contingent/adjuncts. The concern is both for the people > > employed > > > > this way and for the integrity of the institutions that employ > > > > them. I eventually engaged this concern by working with and for > > > > the labor > > > movement, > > > > ending up first working for the garment/apparel workers union in > > > > Philadelphia and then at the Labor Educaiton Program at the U of > > > Illinois, > > > > from which I retired in 2010. > > > > > > > > The new twist to this story is about the employment of academics > > > > on short-term contracts in Viet Nam, under conditions that seem > > > > to be increasingly frequent in the ?developing? world, where the > > > > market for education is booming. University World News http://www. > > > > universityworldnews.com/ tracks this phenomenon and includes > > occasinal > > > > critical articles about the competition for rankings. The > > > > university > > > where > > > > my husband and I have been teaching on and off since 2015, Ton > > > > Duc > > Thang > > > in > > > > Ho Chi Minh City, recruits professors from all over the world > > > > with a promise of $2,000 per month US ? but extending their > > > > contracts depends > > on > > > > producing articles published in journals on the ISI list; the > > > > nature of this list is worth taking a look at. The impact of > > > > this practice on the culture and student body is not all bad. > > > > > > > > My point here is to place the issue of the challenge of getting > > > > a tenure-track job in a global context. This is not just an > > > > individual problem. > > > > > > > > I?m willing to go further down this line of discussion. However, > > > academics > > > > are often reluctant to reveal and compare their working > > > > conditions on > > an > > > > ?academic? discussion list. Maybe by putting up the issue of > > > > what > > > academic > > > > freedom requires, and how these requirements fare in the global > > > > market > > > for > > > > higher education, we can shed the embarassment of revealing > > > > information about our own experiences with getting the brass > > > > ring of a full-time, secure job. > > > > > > > > Let?s see if anyone picks up on this. Maybe I?m being too vague. > > > > > > > > Helena Worthen > > > > helenaworthen@gmail.com > > > > Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 > > > > Blog US/ Viet Nam: > > > > helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > > > skype: helena.worthen1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 19, 2018, at 9:19 AM, Huw Lloyd > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The article describes accumulating large amounts of knowledge > > > pertaining > > > > to > > > > > history, which (the author maintains) cannot be turned to > > > > > other > > > > endeavours. > > > > > This, no doubt, is true for her. If, however, her approach to > > studying > > > > > history had been systemic, then there would have been a > > > > > powerful form > > > of > > > > > re-application and continuity in any work that was turned to. > > > > > Perhaps > > > the > > > > > same can be said for "phd/postdoc training". If it cannot be > > > > > reused > > or > > > > > isn't enabling, what, substantively, is it? > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > Huw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 18 February 2018 at 18:32, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> Really inspiring words and work, Francine. I do see community > > colleges > > > > and > > > > >> many other educational settings apart from universities as > > > > >> really > > > > valuable > > > > >> and exciting opportunities; the PhD and following postdoc etc > > training > > > > in > > > > >> universities, however, tend to be very much targeted towards > > > > >> a very > > > > narrow > > > > >> spectrum of positions, or at least that's been my experience. > > > > >> I am > > > very > > > > >> happy that this thread may widen that scope and make visible > > > > >> other > > > > paths. > > > > >> And as Mike suggested, it would be very interesting to hear > > > > >> from > > > several > > > > >> others who have followed distinct trajectories apart from the > > > > >> phd-postdoc-assist/assoc. prof-prof, and yet made a career in > > > > >> touch > > > with > > > > >> most of what was developed in the junior (phd and few later) > years. > > > > >> Thanks! > > > > >> Alfredo > > > > >> ________________________________________ > > > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > edu> > > > > >> on behalf of Larry Smolucha > > > > >> Sent: 18 February 2018 06:20 > > > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > >> > > > > >> Message from Francine Smolucha on a scholar's life with or > > > > >> without > > > > academia > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> Alfredo, > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> There are other jobs that pay well (sometimes with tenure and > > > > >> early retirement benefits) - besides professorships at four > > > > >> year colleges > > > and > > > > >> universities. Administrative and support staff positions pay > well. > > > And > > > > >> don't overlook community colleges, technical colleges, and > > > > >> public > > > grade > > > > >> schools and high schools. There is also the private sector > > > > >> and > > > > government > > > > >> jobs. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> As a 'low status' community college professor, I managed to > > translate > > > > >> Vygotsky's > > > > >> > > > > >> overlooked writings on creativity (back in the 1980's) and > > introduced > > > > his > > > > >> theory of creativity to academia. I got early retirement at > > > > >> age 53 > > > and > > > > >> continue to write and publish. While my Ph.D from the > > > > >> University of > > > > Chicago > > > > >> gave me academic bona fides, it was the quality of the > > > > >> scholarly > > work > > > > that > > > > >> ultimately mattered. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> I was always inspired by the harsh circumstances of > > > > >> Vygotsky's life > > > and > > > > >> how he still kept on writing. > > > > >> > > > > >> [When I felt really sorry for myself, I would actually say > > > > >> "Well at > > > > least > > > > >> I am not coughing up blood"] > > > > >> > > > > >> So many of his works were not published in his lifetime, he > > > > >> did > not > > > > >> collect a royalties check, and they say he was depressed at the > > end > > > > of > > > > >> his life. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> I leave you with this quote from an ancient Sufi mystic - > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> You can't always get what you want but you can get what you > > > > >> need > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> . > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> ________________________________ > > > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > edu> > > > > >> on behalf of mike cole > > > > >> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:07 PM > > > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > >> > > > > >> Yours is a quandary shared by your generation, Alfredo. > > > > >> Being allowed to teach and conduct research in a quality > > > > >> institution > > > is > > > > a > > > > >> great privilege and an > > > > >> increasingly rarer possibility. > > > > >> > > > > >> There are several people on this list who have organized > > > > >> their lives > > > to > > > > be > > > > >> independent scholars > > > > >> while staying connected to the core institutions of > > > > >> disciplinary > > > > training. > > > > >> It might be nice to hear > > > > >> the variety out there. > > > > >> > > > > >> It appears pretty certain that the situation is going to get > > > > >> worse before/if it gets better. > > > > >> > > > > >> What can the collective experience of xmca come up with that > > > > >> would > > be > > > > >> useful to the many > > > > >> of you caught in this meat grinder? > > > > >> > > > > >> mike > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > > > > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > > > > >> wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >>> Good luck then, Wagner! > > > > >>> A > > > > >>> ________________________________________ > > > > >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > edu > > > > > > > > > >>> on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit > > > > >>> Sent: 18 February 2018 01:07 > > > > >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity > > > > >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > >>> > > > > >>> This just hit me in the spot... > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Wagner > > > > >>> > > > > >>> On Feb 17, 2018 9:48 PM, "Alfredo Jornet Gil" > > > > >>> > > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > >>> > > > > >>>> I have not been able to contribute to this list as much as > > > > >>>> I'd > > like > > > to > > > > >>>> lately, among other things, because I need to find a job, > > > > >>>> and I > > need > > > > to > > > > >>>> make sure that I have checked all those boxes that > > > > >>>> selection > > > > committees > > > > >>>> will check (enough first-authored publications? in good > > > > >>>> enough > > > > >> journals? > > > > >>>> enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? > > > > >>>> acquiring > > > funds? > > > > >>> more > > > > >>>> than all others candidates? and more than > > > favoured-for-whatever-other- > > > > >>> reasons > > > > >>>> candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these weeks to > > > > >>>> fill > > up > > > a > > > > >>>> competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> And, although I did not think that it was particularly well > > written, > > > > it > > > > >>>> was both relieving and discouraging to read this article > > > > >>>> (see link > > > > >> below, > > > > >>>> which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague who I > > > > >>>> think > > also > > > > >>>> subscribes this list). The article makes visible the pain > > > > >>>> scholars > > > go > > > > >>>> through when, after so many years of digging and digging > > > > >>>> and > > > digging a > > > > >>>> little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to leave it and > > > > >>>> find > > > some > > > > >>> other > > > > >>>> thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer who was > > > > >>>> moving > > > > >> through > > > > >>>> the world with his lovely family, short-term project after > > > short-term > > > > >>>> project, getting better and better at what he worked on > > (apparently > > > he > > > > >>> was > > > > >>>> among the few who had expertise in computer modeling > > > > >>>> simulating > > some > > > > >>>> astronomic events) , and finally having to step out > > > > >>>> academia last > > > year > > > > >> to > > > > >>>> find something else to do, for his family no longer could > > > > >>>> stand > > the > > > > >>>> constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be me soon. > > > > >>>> And that > > > may > > > > >>> not > > > > >>>> be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the story > > > > >>>> seems to > > be > > > > >>> quite > > > > >>>> endemic to academia and may be interesting to some of you: > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Loses-When/ > > > > >>>> 24 > > > > >>>> 2560 > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Alfredo > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > > Assistant Professor > > Department of Anthropology > > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > > Brigham Young University > > Provo, UT 84602 > > WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu > > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > > > > From huw.softdesigns@gmail.com Mon Feb 26 05:56:52 2018 From: huw.softdesigns@gmail.com (Huw Lloyd) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2018 13:56:52 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In-Reply-To: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AD5D10@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> <1518914964416.39650@iped.uio.no> <1518978734957.93647@iped.uio.no> <87FCF1E0-1B28-4F92-A85C-9E5A10424B74@gmail.com> <1519110745104.46827@iped.uio.no> <1519598399026.36406@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AD5C72@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AD5D10@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> Message-ID: Perhaps this will help: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzS5V5-0VsA I'm not sure I'd use Ackoff's terms (wisdom), yet the meaning is appropriate. The word play he uses also potential obscures the genetic basis for the distinctions. I suppose he is endeavouring to provide pithy expressions to summarise more complex processes. Best, Huw On 26 February 2018 at 13:32, Glassman, Michael wrote: > Hi Huw, > > Thanks for the response. I'm not really sure I'm understanding what you > are trying to say. I was going to say what I think, but I'm not sure I have > enough of a grasp of your point for it to be effective. > > Michael > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Huw Lloyd > Sent: Monday, February 26, 2018 5:28 AM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > Hi Michael, > > The issue can be explored in terms of effectiveness. Superficial > approaches may succeed (technologically) yet inevitably create messes > through a lack of awareness of integration issues. Knowing how to design > well entails much improvement in this awareness, with the broader (rarely > touched) reaches of design encompassing the developmental and ecological > requirements of the practitioners, users, resources, pollution etc . > Operationally, however, one can be deemed useful without awareness of this, > and the majority of "technological" work is undertaken in ignorance of > integration issues. > Instead efficiency becomes a priority which is reinforced through > bureaucratic procedures. Really, one would probably lose the majority of > technologically focused workers in a technical discussion of developmental > design. It probably can be considered relatively advanced knowledge, yet it > can be reached tractably through technical problem solving. How one would > come to an awareness of integration issues without STEM practice > (graduating on to systems knowledge) is a different matter, probably only > vaguely and ineffectively. Hence the basis for knowledge is not necessarily > different between social science and STEM, rather there is a difference in > focus, with the asymmetry being derived from their different foci and what > is required to be effective. If one considers that the value of social > science is in realisation of effective organisation, then it follows that > this necessarily requires relatively advanced practices to achieve > effective results. > > Best, > Huw > > On 26 February 2018 at 01:15, Glassman, Michael > wrote: > > > Hi Huw, > > > > Perhaps the opposite is also true though. STEM researchers can better > > understand what they are doing if they are well versed in the social > > sciences. Understand the history and the meaning of what they are > > doing so they do not act as androids (sorry, been watching the Aliens > > trilogy of late). Perhaps we made the wrong calculation. We have lost > > control of our great STEM innovations because the people using them > > don't understand the social webs that they create. So we have people > > pushing xMOOCs (whatever happened to MOOCs anyway) as saving education > > (and also a bundle so everybody gets tax cuts, wheeee!), saying that > > they are good because they can reach many, the proverbial long tail, > > with great education (Harvard, Stanford). Yet nobody asks the > > question, "Why is this a good thing." There really isn't much > > supporting this in earlier distance education. There is actually more > > evidence of how dangerous it is (Participatory Action Research). > > > > Michael > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Huw Lloyd > > Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2018 7:32 PM > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > I would ask, what makes you think you have an ecology (or niche)? It > > seems that the notion of topologically derived ecologies is still > > bandied about since Bronfenbrenner (1977), though I do not know > > whether he managed to refine (overhaul and improve) his notions into > > something integrated and agent-centric. One does not provide an > > ecology or an environment. The environment is different for everyone, > > a simple consideration of a rock-face or climbing wall is sufficient > > to grasp this -- the so called environment (the rock face) is > > different to each climber, their environment is that which is > > appropriate to them which includes contexts well beyond what is > > established in an institution. From what I can gauge, historically, > slack was deliberately introduced into courses to afford personal enquiry. > > There was the basic work and then there was the genuine enquiry. Who > > in their right mind wants to write an exam essay on a question they > > are expected to pre-write and repeat by memory? Why would someone who > > enjoys thinking about their subject want to go through that kind of > > impoverished tedium? These systems are obviously geared for "delivery". > > > > Perhaps the biggest cultural shift can be achieved through instituting > > joint and personal enquiry. A teacher that stands before their class > > and delivers their subject inevitably obscures and obstructs the > > process of enquiry, although many students will have learnt from a > > young age that this is what to expect and demand. Engagement with > > genuine problems rather than what students are expected to do is the > > basic orientational issue. Dispose of grades, then anyone who isn't > interested is free to go home. > > > > The advance of STEM research is probably a good thing for social science. > > For productive work, social science must understand the structure of > > STEM based work, in addition to bureaucratic processes and > > circumstances for creative work. Sticking one's head in the sand over > > STEM-like research serves merely to perpetuate the impoverished side > > of social science. It reminds me of the scene in Pirsig's Zen and the > > Art of Motorcycle Maintenance in which a couple lack the wherewithal > > to fix a dripping faucet that gives them grief and instead choose to > > ignore it. Though it was a very long time ago, Pirsig's book may have > > contributed to my understanding of quality and might be thought of as > > an exploration of some social issues pertaining to technical > > enterprises. Another good text to appreciate quality more directly, > > probably outside the formal area of STEM, is Alshuller's Innovation > Algorithm. > > > > Warm regards to you Henry, Greg, Alfredo. > > > > Best, > > Huw > > > > On 25 February 2018 at 22:39, Alfredo Jornet Gil > > wrote: > > > > > Greg, Huw, and others, I do often get worried that in the formals > > > and informal meetings at our department (department of education), > > > conversations tend to focus on the "micro" developments that you > > > mention (students, grades, getting a next grant, getting that paper > > > published, making sure you've got enough) most of the time, and not > > > so much on what society we would like to have, and how our > > > institution could/should contribute to that. I do not have any > > > suggestions on the type of studies that you ask about?dealing with > > > how ecologies of scholarship in academia lead to given developmental > > > dynamics?other than the classical studies in STS, like Latour & > > > Woolgar's on laboratory life, or S. L. Star's. But when I look > > > forward at what lies between me (or anyone in my institution) and a > > > change in the way this institution has impact in the life of many, > > > what I see is lots of routines, habits, documents, and paperwork > > > entangled in the middle, such that the idea "mediation all the way > > > through" makes all the sense. And seeing things that way (from the > > > ecological perspective), makes the possibility of changing things to > > > look actually feasible, or more accurately perhaps, imagine-able. > > > I'd like to continue being part of the ecology to be able to be also > > > be part of its changing it. I hope others will bring more specific > > > literature to bear. I am already > > downloading some of Peter Sloterdijk's to read. > > > > > > Alfredo > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________ > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > on behalf of Greg Thompson > > > > > > Sent: 24 February 2018 17:45 > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > > > I appreciate Huw's concern about academia and the push to orient to > > > a broader and more systemic concern with "development". I think that > > > this is what institutions of higher education are supposed to have, > > > right? - at the very least a concern for the development of > > > individual "students", but also, one would hope, a concern for > > > "development" at a longer timescale (e.g., how to be a better society, > a better world). > > > They certainly tout these in their promo materials. > > > > > > And yet, in practice, these institutions often fall back on > > > bureaucratic or economic logics. Bureaucratic logic goes something > > > like, "just publish (in "good" (i.e., high impact factor) journals), > > > who cares what you publish so long as we can count it to determine > > > its > > (and your) 'value'(!)". > > > > > > As for the economic logic, I was just talking with Rick Shweder the > > > other day about this issue and he expressed the concern about the > > > push towards STEM education at the expense of all else and the way > > > that STEM buildings are slowly starting to take over his campus (the > > > University of Chicago - a place that was long held to be a hold out > > > of liberal arts education - apparently they now have an engineering > > > program). He suggested that this is tied to an early 80's court > > > decision that gave universities ownership of patents developed on > > > their > > campuses. > > > > > > To my mind, this calls to mind a concern with ecologies of > > > development (across the shorter and longer timescales). What are the > > > ecologies (social, economic, political, etc.) within which > > > development (at these various > > > timescales) occurs in our world today? This is really a question of > > > what is possible and/or what is likely with regard to becoming. What > > > are the forms of life and forms of development that are sustainable > > > given the larger ecologies in which that development happens? > > > > > > And for thinking through that problem, I've had a hard time thinking > > > of anyone who has better thought through this problem than Marx - at > > > the longer timescale of development, that is (Vygotsky would, of > > > course, be better at thinking through development at the shorter > > > timescale of ontogeny). > > > > > > I'd love to hear others' thoughts on those who have studied > > > activities that can begin to shed light on these ecologies of > > > development (particularly at the longer timescale). Any > > > thoughts/suggestions? I would imagine this work considering various > > > kinds of institutions that run the gamut - from venture capitalist > > > firms to non-profits to governmental institutions to institutions of > > > higher education. I would presume that each of these kinds of > > > institutions would have a local ecology within which they work, but > > > I am tempted to imagine some kind of global meta-ecology (perhaps > > > Marx's "global > > > capitalism"?) within which each of these local ecologies operates. > > > I'd be curious about actual research that has been done documenting > > > the nature of these ecologies - e.g., what kinds of resources are > > > available to be exploited? What kinds of possibilities are there for > > > different forms of life? What institutional organisms can thrive? > > > Which are dying off? (and just to be clear, I am intending a > > > biological/evolutionary nature of the metaphor). > > > > > > It seems that this kind of work would be most likely to have been > > > done by folks in the CHAT world, but perhaps the scale (of time and > > > space) is a bit beyond the scales that CHAT folks prefer to consider? > > > > > > (I should add that I've recently discovered the work of Peter > > > Sloterdijk's Bubbles trilogy and am curious if anyone has any > > > thoughts on the value of his approach - it seems to fit very well > > > with Marx and with CHAT/Vygotsky, my only initial concern was that > > > he seems to fly a little fast and loose with pyschoanalytics at > > > times - not a serious problem, but perhaps in a few places). > > > > > > Sympathetically, > > > greg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 1:57 PM, Huw Lloyd > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Well, I would say there is more to it than simply > > > > transfer-ability, which might be thought of as a good bureaucratic > > > > requirement. Really what is required is genuine development -- > > > > reorganisation of thought and > > > learning. > > > > That is what is significant at a personal level, which is also the > > > > basis > > > of > > > > insights and creative work (i.e. personal knowledge rather than > > > > second > > > hand > > > > knowledge). The researcher in the blog article does not evince > > > > this (with allusions to the nature of her training). There is the > > > > history school children learn, which largely concerns the use of > > > > memory, and then there > > > is > > > > the history of conditions, relations and processes, which concerns > > > > protracted thought. This developmental emphasis is what is lacking > > > > in institutions which is why I have frequently pointed it out. > > > > > > > > This principle apples to "secure" jobs too. The jobs I have walked > > > > away from have been due to the overly narrow scope, where I felt > > > > it was necessary to be far more ambitious to achieve modest > > > > satisfaction, an ambition which included achieving the wider scope > > > > within the norms established. Similar issues pertain to my > > > > peripheral engagement with academia. Twenty years ago, after > > > > completing a masters in cognitive > > > science > > > > (a good year), I decided against pursuing any further formal > > > > education > > > with > > > > any immediacy due to my sense that what I was encountering in the > > > > subject (and related subjects) was fundamentally wrong or > > > > inadequate, but I couldn't quite discern what that was. So, for > > > > me, I had no interest in furthering the academic course at the > > > > time, because I was concerned with understanding, doing, > > > > discovering and development, not being a "good researcher". I was > > > > and am uninterested in the trappings of academia, what it looks > > > > like from the outside (with dubious ethics of promoting those in > > > > society who least need it) -- hence I am not too bothered about > > > > where the experiences come from. After all, if you want sound > > > > knowledge then it should be validated in places where it counts > > > > (in action), not in > > an echo chamber of words. > > > > > > > > >From my (developmental) perspective academia appears to be > > > > >chockfull of > > > > unproductive thinking. The lack of systems understanding in the > > > > social sciences (which has been pointed out by key persons for two > > > > generations) > > > I > > > > find to be quite incredible. This, as far as I can see, is the > > > > panacea to the stasis and lethargy that I have seen in certain > > > > institutions, where there are people in secure jobs with no > > > > interest in revitalising an institution (perhaps the same people > > > > who rely upon their status for authority). In the UK, in the > > > > social sciences, the whole social science infrastructure is built > > > > upon a notion of quality that is ignorant of systems -- that is > > > > the degree to which unproductive thinking has > > > penetrated > > > > social science. > > > > > > > > Yet there is much more to it still. Recently I have also come to a > > > > surprising awareness that developmental prerogatives have rather a > > > > significant amount in common with spiritual ones. So I would offer > > > broader > > > > advice than Michael's of staying clear of hardship. It may be that > > > > in > > > that > > > > "nadir" something surprising may be discovered. For anyone with a > > > > passion "job security" is not a goal, at best it is a means to an > > > > ends, at worst > > > it > > > > is an obstacle. > > > > > > > > Over and out. :) > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > Huw > > > > > > > > On 20 February 2018 at 07:12, Alfredo Jornet Gil > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Huw, Helena, and all, > > > > > > > > > > thanks to you both for taking the discussion where I was hoping > > > > > it to > > > go > > > > > further: first, towards a reflection on the nature of training > > > > > academic scholars go through as it concerns the classical > > > > > problem of learning "transfer"; and then, as it regards the > > > > > question of academic freedom > > > > (which > > > > > actually may be the same question, just taken in a language more > > > adequate > > > > > to an ecological understanding of the problem). This is > > > > > absolutely not > > > > just > > > > > an individual problem. And, on that matter, I should be clear > > > > > that I > > > am a > > > > > privileged in a privileged land, where, despite all uncertainty > > > > > and > > > pains > > > > > that my family have gone and go through, I have today a good > > > > > background > > > > and > > > > > network, and probably better prospects than the majority of > > > > > junior > > > > scholars > > > > > out there. Not that I have earned this privilege for nothing: my > > > migrant > > > > > history and that of my family is all connected to an effort and > > > > > quest > > > to > > > > > get better chances of academic opportunity in this market Helena > > > > > talks about. But my personal story, as that of the historian in > > > > > the article shared or of my French astronomer friend, are > > > > > relevant in as far as > > > they > > > > > help us reflect on just those questions. They really also make > > > > > one > > > wonder > > > > > on the sense of the term "academic freedom", for the latter term > > > > > cannot > > > > be > > > > > about doing whatever research you want to do independently of > > > > > some > > > market > > > > > conditions and societal needs and economy. We may then pose the > > > > questions, > > > > > what type of "freedom" is the "freedom" current systems (of > > > > > incentives, > > > > of > > > > > ISI lists) afford, and what type of system could allow for > > > > > another > > > > meaning > > > > > of the term "freedom"? > > > > > > > > > > Not to get too abstract, I guess that those reflections may be > > > > > best pondered along concrete cases, if people is willing to take > > > > > on Helena's suggestion to share particular stories of all that > > > > > goes into getting > > > into > > > > > secured academic job positions, or else, of pursuing > > > > > (in)dependent > > > > careers > > > > > outside/at the borders of/across academia. > > > > > > > > > > Alfredo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________ > > > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > > > > > > > > > > on behalf of Helena Worthen > > > > > Sent: 19 February 2018 19:19 > > > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > > > > > > > In the interests of widening the discussion: > > > > > > > > > > I?ve described my work history before on this list ? basically, > > > > > moving from teaching literature and writing (with stopovers in > > > > > landscape architecture and theater production) to concern about > > > > > the working conditions of teachers, especially academics in > > > > > higher education, the > > > 75% > > > > > who are contingent/adjuncts. The concern is both for the people > > > employed > > > > > this way and for the integrity of the institutions that employ > > > > > them. I eventually engaged this concern by working with and for > > > > > the labor > > > > movement, > > > > > ending up first working for the garment/apparel workers union in > > > > > Philadelphia and then at the Labor Educaiton Program at the U of > > > > Illinois, > > > > > from which I retired in 2010. > > > > > > > > > > The new twist to this story is about the employment of academics > > > > > on short-term contracts in Viet Nam, under conditions that seem > > > > > to be increasingly frequent in the ?developing? world, where the > > > > > market for education is booming. University World News http://www. > > > > > universityworldnews.com/ tracks this phenomenon and includes > > > occasinal > > > > > critical articles about the competition for rankings. The > > > > > university > > > > where > > > > > my husband and I have been teaching on and off since 2015, Ton > > > > > Duc > > > Thang > > > > in > > > > > Ho Chi Minh City, recruits professors from all over the world > > > > > with a promise of $2,000 per month US ? but extending their > > > > > contracts depends > > > on > > > > > producing articles published in journals on the ISI list; the > > > > > nature of this list is worth taking a look at. The impact of > > > > > this practice on the culture and student body is not all bad. > > > > > > > > > > My point here is to place the issue of the challenge of getting > > > > > a tenure-track job in a global context. This is not just an > > > > > individual problem. > > > > > > > > > > I?m willing to go further down this line of discussion. However, > > > > academics > > > > > are often reluctant to reveal and compare their working > > > > > conditions on > > > an > > > > > ?academic? discussion list. Maybe by putting up the issue of > > > > > what > > > > academic > > > > > freedom requires, and how these requirements fare in the global > > > > > market > > > > for > > > > > higher education, we can shed the embarassment of revealing > > > > > information about our own experiences with getting the brass > > > > > ring of a full-time, secure job. > > > > > > > > > > Let?s see if anyone picks up on this. Maybe I?m being too vague. > > > > > > > > > > Helena Worthen > > > > > helenaworthen@gmail.com > > > > > Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 > > > > > Blog US/ Viet Nam: > > > > > helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > > > > skype: helena.worthen1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 19, 2018, at 9:19 AM, Huw Lloyd > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > The article describes accumulating large amounts of knowledge > > > > pertaining > > > > > to > > > > > > history, which (the author maintains) cannot be turned to > > > > > > other > > > > > endeavours. > > > > > > This, no doubt, is true for her. If, however, her approach to > > > studying > > > > > > history had been systemic, then there would have been a > > > > > > powerful form > > > > of > > > > > > re-application and continuity in any work that was turned to. > > > > > > Perhaps > > > > the > > > > > > same can be said for "phd/postdoc training". If it cannot be > > > > > > reused > > > or > > > > > > isn't enabling, what, substantively, is it? > > > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > Huw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 18 February 2018 at 18:32, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > > > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >> Really inspiring words and work, Francine. I do see community > > > colleges > > > > > and > > > > > >> many other educational settings apart from universities as > > > > > >> really > > > > > valuable > > > > > >> and exciting opportunities; the PhD and following postdoc etc > > > training > > > > > in > > > > > >> universities, however, tend to be very much targeted towards > > > > > >> a very > > > > > narrow > > > > > >> spectrum of positions, or at least that's been my experience. > > > > > >> I am > > > > very > > > > > >> happy that this thread may widen that scope and make visible > > > > > >> other > > > > > paths. > > > > > >> And as Mike suggested, it would be very interesting to hear > > > > > >> from > > > > several > > > > > >> others who have followed distinct trajectories apart from the > > > > > >> phd-postdoc-assist/assoc. prof-prof, and yet made a career in > > > > > >> touch > > > > with > > > > > >> most of what was developed in the junior (phd and few later) > > years. > > > > > >> Thanks! > > > > > >> Alfredo > > > > > >> ________________________________________ > > > > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > > edu> > > > > > >> on behalf of Larry Smolucha > > > > > >> Sent: 18 February 2018 06:20 > > > > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Message from Francine Smolucha on a scholar's life with or > > > > > >> without > > > > > academia > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Alfredo, > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> There are other jobs that pay well (sometimes with tenure and > > > > > >> early retirement benefits) - besides professorships at four > > > > > >> year colleges > > > > and > > > > > >> universities. Administrative and support staff positions pay > > well. > > > > And > > > > > >> don't overlook community colleges, technical colleges, and > > > > > >> public > > > > grade > > > > > >> schools and high schools. There is also the private sector > > > > > >> and > > > > > government > > > > > >> jobs. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> As a 'low status' community college professor, I managed to > > > translate > > > > > >> Vygotsky's > > > > > >> > > > > > >> overlooked writings on creativity (back in the 1980's) and > > > introduced > > > > > his > > > > > >> theory of creativity to academia. I got early retirement at > > > > > >> age 53 > > > > and > > > > > >> continue to write and publish. While my Ph.D from the > > > > > >> University of > > > > > Chicago > > > > > >> gave me academic bona fides, it was the quality of the > > > > > >> scholarly > > > work > > > > > that > > > > > >> ultimately mattered. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> I was always inspired by the harsh circumstances of > > > > > >> Vygotsky's life > > > > and > > > > > >> how he still kept on writing. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> [When I felt really sorry for myself, I would actually say > > > > > >> "Well at > > > > > least > > > > > >> I am not coughing up blood"] > > > > > >> > > > > > >> So many of his works were not published in his lifetime, he > > > > > >> did > > not > > > > > >> collect a royalties check, and they say he was depressed at > the > > > end > > > > > of > > > > > >> his life. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> I leave you with this quote from an ancient Sufi mystic - > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> You can't always get what you want but you can get what you > > > > > >> need > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> . > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> ________________________________ > > > > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > > edu> > > > > > >> on behalf of mike cole > > > > > >> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:07 PM > > > > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Yours is a quandary shared by your generation, Alfredo. > > > > > >> Being allowed to teach and conduct research in a quality > > > > > >> institution > > > > is > > > > > a > > > > > >> great privilege and an > > > > > >> increasingly rarer possibility. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> There are several people on this list who have organized > > > > > >> their lives > > > > to > > > > > be > > > > > >> independent scholars > > > > > >> while staying connected to the core institutions of > > > > > >> disciplinary > > > > > training. > > > > > >> It might be nice to hear > > > > > >> the variety out there. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> It appears pretty certain that the situation is going to get > > > > > >> worse before/if it gets better. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> What can the collective experience of xmca come up with that > > > > > >> would > > > be > > > > > >> useful to the many > > > > > >> of you caught in this meat grinder? > > > > > >> > > > > > >> mike > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > > > > > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > >>> Good luck then, Wagner! > > > > > >>> A > > > > > >>> ________________________________________ > > > > > >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > > > edu > > > > > > > > > > > >>> on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit > > > > > >>> Sent: 18 February 2018 01:07 > > > > > >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity > > > > > >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> This just hit me in the spot... > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> Wagner > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> On Feb 17, 2018 9:48 PM, "Alfredo Jornet Gil" > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>>> I have not been able to contribute to this list as much as > > > > > >>>> I'd > > > like > > > > to > > > > > >>>> lately, among other things, because I need to find a job, > > > > > >>>> and I > > > need > > > > > to > > > > > >>>> make sure that I have checked all those boxes that > > > > > >>>> selection > > > > > committees > > > > > >>>> will check (enough first-authored publications? in good > > > > > >>>> enough > > > > > >> journals? > > > > > >>>> enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? > > > > > >>>> acquiring > > > > funds? > > > > > >>> more > > > > > >>>> than all others candidates? and more than > > > > favoured-for-whatever-other- > > > > > >>> reasons > > > > > >>>> candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these weeks to > > > > > >>>> fill > > > up > > > > a > > > > > >>>> competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> And, although I did not think that it was particularly well > > > written, > > > > > it > > > > > >>>> was both relieving and discouraging to read this article > > > > > >>>> (see link > > > > > >> below, > > > > > >>>> which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague who I > > > > > >>>> think > > > also > > > > > >>>> subscribes this list). The article makes visible the pain > > > > > >>>> scholars > > > > go > > > > > >>>> through when, after so many years of digging and digging > > > > > >>>> and > > > > digging a > > > > > >>>> little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to leave it and > > > > > >>>> find > > > > some > > > > > >>> other > > > > > >>>> thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer who was > > > > > >>>> moving > > > > > >> through > > > > > >>>> the world with his lovely family, short-term project after > > > > short-term > > > > > >>>> project, getting better and better at what he worked on > > > (apparently > > > > he > > > > > >>> was > > > > > >>>> among the few who had expertise in computer modeling > > > > > >>>> simulating > > > some > > > > > >>>> astronomic events) , and finally having to step out > > > > > >>>> academia last > > > > year > > > > > >> to > > > > > >>>> find something else to do, for his family no longer could > > > > > >>>> stand > > > the > > > > > >>>> constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be me soon. > > > > > >>>> And that > > > > may > > > > > >>> not > > > > > >>>> be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the story > > > > > >>>> seems to > > > be > > > > > >>> quite > > > > > >>>> endemic to academia and may be interesting to some of you: > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Loses-When/ > > > > > >>>> 24 > > > > > >>>> 2560 > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> Alfredo > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > > > Assistant Professor > > > Department of Anthropology > > > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > > > Brigham Young University > > > Provo, UT 84602 > > > WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu > > > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > > > > > > > > > From glassman.13@osu.edu Mon Feb 26 06:19:08 2018 From: glassman.13@osu.edu (Glassman, Michael) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2018 14:19:08 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In-Reply-To: References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> <1518914964416.39650@iped.uio.no> <1518978734957.93647@iped.uio.no> <87FCF1E0-1B28-4F92-A85C-9E5A10424B74@gmail.com> <1519110745104.46827@iped.uio.no> <1519598399026.36406@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AD5C72@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AD5D10@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> Message-ID: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AD5D38@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> Hi Huw, Thanks. Is answering a question with a link to youtube the 2018 equivalent of answer a question with a question. Anyway watched it. Seems like the same debate educators were having in the 1930s in the United States on whether to make schools models of efficiency creating workers or whether to make school laboratories of democratic thinking focusing on citizens. The democratic laboratories side won the battle but lost the war. We can all see how that worked out. But I'm still trying to understand what your current point is. Michael -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Huw Lloyd Sent: Monday, February 26, 2018 8:57 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship Perhaps this will help: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzS5V5-0VsA I'm not sure I'd use Ackoff's terms (wisdom), yet the meaning is appropriate. The word play he uses also potential obscures the genetic basis for the distinctions. I suppose he is endeavouring to provide pithy expressions to summarise more complex processes. Best, Huw On 26 February 2018 at 13:32, Glassman, Michael wrote: > Hi Huw, > > Thanks for the response. I'm not really sure I'm understanding what > you are trying to say. I was going to say what I think, but I'm not > sure I have enough of a grasp of your point for it to be effective. > > Michael > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Huw Lloyd > Sent: Monday, February 26, 2018 5:28 AM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > Hi Michael, > > The issue can be explored in terms of effectiveness. Superficial > approaches may succeed (technologically) yet inevitably create messes > through a lack of awareness of integration issues. Knowing how to > design well entails much improvement in this awareness, with the > broader (rarely > touched) reaches of design encompassing the developmental and > ecological requirements of the practitioners, users, resources, pollution etc . > Operationally, however, one can be deemed useful without awareness of > this, and the majority of "technological" work is undertaken in > ignorance of integration issues. > Instead efficiency becomes a priority which is reinforced through > bureaucratic procedures. Really, one would probably lose the majority > of technologically focused workers in a technical discussion of > developmental design. It probably can be considered relatively > advanced knowledge, yet it can be reached tractably through technical > problem solving. How one would come to an awareness of integration > issues without STEM practice (graduating on to systems knowledge) is a > different matter, probably only vaguely and ineffectively. Hence the > basis for knowledge is not necessarily different between social > science and STEM, rather there is a difference in focus, with the > asymmetry being derived from their different foci and what is required > to be effective. If one considers that the value of social science is > in realisation of effective organisation, then it follows that this > necessarily requires relatively advanced practices to achieve effective results. > > Best, > Huw > > On 26 February 2018 at 01:15, Glassman, Michael > wrote: > > > Hi Huw, > > > > Perhaps the opposite is also true though. STEM researchers can > > better understand what they are doing if they are well versed in the > > social sciences. Understand the history and the meaning of what they > > are doing so they do not act as androids (sorry, been watching the > > Aliens trilogy of late). Perhaps we made the wrong calculation. We > > have lost control of our great STEM innovations because the people > > using them don't understand the social webs that they create. So we > > have people pushing xMOOCs (whatever happened to MOOCs anyway) as > > saving education (and also a bundle so everybody gets tax cuts, > > wheeee!), saying that they are good because they can reach many, the > > proverbial long tail, with great education (Harvard, Stanford). Yet > > nobody asks the question, "Why is this a good thing." There really > > isn't much supporting this in earlier distance education. There is > > actually more evidence of how dangerous it is (Participatory Action Research). > > > > Michael > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Huw Lloyd > > Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2018 7:32 PM > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > I would ask, what makes you think you have an ecology (or niche)? It > > seems that the notion of topologically derived ecologies is still > > bandied about since Bronfenbrenner (1977), though I do not know > > whether he managed to refine (overhaul and improve) his notions into > > something integrated and agent-centric. One does not provide an > > ecology or an environment. The environment is different for > > everyone, a simple consideration of a rock-face or climbing wall is > > sufficient to grasp this -- the so called environment (the rock > > face) is different to each climber, their environment is that which > > is appropriate to them which includes contexts well beyond what is > > established in an institution. From what I can gauge, historically, > slack was deliberately introduced into courses to afford personal enquiry. > > There was the basic work and then there was the genuine enquiry. Who > > in their right mind wants to write an exam essay on a question they > > are expected to pre-write and repeat by memory? Why would someone > > who enjoys thinking about their subject want to go through that kind > > of impoverished tedium? These systems are obviously geared for "delivery". > > > > Perhaps the biggest cultural shift can be achieved through > > instituting joint and personal enquiry. A teacher that stands before > > their class and delivers their subject inevitably obscures and > > obstructs the process of enquiry, although many students will have > > learnt from a young age that this is what to expect and demand. > > Engagement with genuine problems rather than what students are > > expected to do is the basic orientational issue. Dispose of grades, > > then anyone who isn't > interested is free to go home. > > > > The advance of STEM research is probably a good thing for social science. > > For productive work, social science must understand the structure of > > STEM based work, in addition to bureaucratic processes and > > circumstances for creative work. Sticking one's head in the sand > > over STEM-like research serves merely to perpetuate the impoverished > > side of social science. It reminds me of the scene in Pirsig's Zen > > and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance in which a couple lack the > > wherewithal to fix a dripping faucet that gives them grief and > > instead choose to ignore it. Though it was a very long time ago, > > Pirsig's book may have contributed to my understanding of quality > > and might be thought of as an exploration of some social issues > > pertaining to technical enterprises. Another good text to appreciate > > quality more directly, probably outside the formal area of STEM, is > > Alshuller's Innovation > Algorithm. > > > > Warm regards to you Henry, Greg, Alfredo. > > > > Best, > > Huw > > > > On 25 February 2018 at 22:39, Alfredo Jornet Gil > > > > wrote: > > > > > Greg, Huw, and others, I do often get worried that in the formals > > > and informal meetings at our department (department of education), > > > conversations tend to focus on the "micro" developments that you > > > mention (students, grades, getting a next grant, getting that > > > paper published, making sure you've got enough) most of the time, > > > and not so much on what society we would like to have, and how our > > > institution could/should contribute to that. I do not have any > > > suggestions on the type of studies that you ask about?dealing with > > > how ecologies of scholarship in academia lead to given > > > developmental dynamics?other than the classical studies in STS, > > > like Latour & Woolgar's on laboratory life, or S. L. Star's. But > > > when I look forward at what lies between me (or anyone in my > > > institution) and a change in the way this institution has impact > > > in the life of many, what I see is lots of routines, habits, > > > documents, and paperwork entangled in the middle, such that the > > > idea "mediation all the way through" makes all the sense. And > > > seeing things that way (from the ecological perspective), makes > > > the possibility of changing things to look actually feasible, or more accurately perhaps, imagine-able. > > > I'd like to continue being part of the ecology to be able to be > > > also be part of its changing it. I hope others will bring more > > > specific literature to bear. I am already > > downloading some of Peter Sloterdijk's to read. > > > > > > Alfredo > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________ > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > on behalf of Greg Thompson > > > > > > Sent: 24 February 2018 17:45 > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > > > I appreciate Huw's concern about academia and the push to orient > > > to a broader and more systemic concern with "development". I think > > > that this is what institutions of higher education are supposed to > > > have, right? - at the very least a concern for the development of > > > individual "students", but also, one would hope, a concern for > > > "development" at a longer timescale (e.g., how to be a better > > > society, > a better world). > > > They certainly tout these in their promo materials. > > > > > > And yet, in practice, these institutions often fall back on > > > bureaucratic or economic logics. Bureaucratic logic goes something > > > like, "just publish (in "good" (i.e., high impact factor) > > > journals), who cares what you publish so long as we can count it > > > to determine its > > (and your) 'value'(!)". > > > > > > As for the economic logic, I was just talking with Rick Shweder > > > the other day about this issue and he expressed the concern about > > > the push towards STEM education at the expense of all else and the > > > way that STEM buildings are slowly starting to take over his > > > campus (the University of Chicago - a place that was long held to > > > be a hold out of liberal arts education - apparently they now have > > > an engineering program). He suggested that this is tied to an > > > early 80's court decision that gave universities ownership of > > > patents developed on their > > campuses. > > > > > > To my mind, this calls to mind a concern with ecologies of > > > development (across the shorter and longer timescales). What are > > > the ecologies (social, economic, political, etc.) within which > > > development (at these various > > > timescales) occurs in our world today? This is really a question > > > of what is possible and/or what is likely with regard to becoming. > > > What are the forms of life and forms of development that are > > > sustainable given the larger ecologies in which that development happens? > > > > > > And for thinking through that problem, I've had a hard time > > > thinking of anyone who has better thought through this problem > > > than Marx - at the longer timescale of development, that is > > > (Vygotsky would, of course, be better at thinking through > > > development at the shorter timescale of ontogeny). > > > > > > I'd love to hear others' thoughts on those who have studied > > > activities that can begin to shed light on these ecologies of > > > development (particularly at the longer timescale). Any > > > thoughts/suggestions? I would imagine this work considering > > > various kinds of institutions that run the gamut - from venture > > > capitalist firms to non-profits to governmental institutions to > > > institutions of higher education. I would presume that each of > > > these kinds of institutions would have a local ecology within > > > which they work, but I am tempted to imagine some kind of global > > > meta-ecology (perhaps Marx's "global > > > capitalism"?) within which each of these local ecologies operates. > > > I'd be curious about actual research that has been done > > > documenting the nature of these ecologies - e.g., what kinds of > > > resources are available to be exploited? What kinds of > > > possibilities are there for different forms of life? What institutional organisms can thrive? > > > Which are dying off? (and just to be clear, I am intending a > > > biological/evolutionary nature of the metaphor). > > > > > > It seems that this kind of work would be most likely to have been > > > done by folks in the CHAT world, but perhaps the scale (of time > > > and > > > space) is a bit beyond the scales that CHAT folks prefer to consider? > > > > > > (I should add that I've recently discovered the work of Peter > > > Sloterdijk's Bubbles trilogy and am curious if anyone has any > > > thoughts on the value of his approach - it seems to fit very well > > > with Marx and with CHAT/Vygotsky, my only initial concern was that > > > he seems to fly a little fast and loose with pyschoanalytics at > > > times - not a serious problem, but perhaps in a few places). > > > > > > Sympathetically, > > > greg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 1:57 PM, Huw Lloyd > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Well, I would say there is more to it than simply > > > > transfer-ability, which might be thought of as a good > > > > bureaucratic requirement. Really what is required is genuine > > > > development -- reorganisation of thought and > > > learning. > > > > That is what is significant at a personal level, which is also > > > > the basis > > > of > > > > insights and creative work (i.e. personal knowledge rather than > > > > second > > > hand > > > > knowledge). The researcher in the blog article does not evince > > > > this (with allusions to the nature of her training). There is > > > > the history school children learn, which largely concerns the > > > > use of memory, and then there > > > is > > > > the history of conditions, relations and processes, which > > > > concerns protracted thought. This developmental emphasis is what > > > > is lacking in institutions which is why I have frequently pointed it out. > > > > > > > > This principle apples to "secure" jobs too. The jobs I have > > > > walked away from have been due to the overly narrow scope, where > > > > I felt it was necessary to be far more ambitious to achieve > > > > modest satisfaction, an ambition which included achieving the > > > > wider scope within the norms established. Similar issues pertain > > > > to my peripheral engagement with academia. Twenty years ago, > > > > after completing a masters in cognitive > > > science > > > > (a good year), I decided against pursuing any further formal > > > > education > > > with > > > > any immediacy due to my sense that what I was encountering in > > > > the subject (and related subjects) was fundamentally wrong or > > > > inadequate, but I couldn't quite discern what that was. So, for > > > > me, I had no interest in furthering the academic course at the > > > > time, because I was concerned with understanding, doing, > > > > discovering and development, not being a "good researcher". I > > > > was and am uninterested in the trappings of academia, what it > > > > looks like from the outside (with dubious ethics of promoting > > > > those in society who least need it) -- hence I am not too > > > > bothered about where the experiences come from. After all, if > > > > you want sound knowledge then it should be validated in places > > > > where it counts (in action), not in > > an echo chamber of words. > > > > > > > > >From my (developmental) perspective academia appears to be > > > > >chockfull of > > > > unproductive thinking. The lack of systems understanding in the > > > > social sciences (which has been pointed out by key persons for > > > > two > > > > generations) > > > I > > > > find to be quite incredible. This, as far as I can see, is the > > > > panacea to the stasis and lethargy that I have seen in certain > > > > institutions, where there are people in secure jobs with no > > > > interest in revitalising an institution (perhaps the same people > > > > who rely upon their status for authority). In the UK, in the > > > > social sciences, the whole social science infrastructure is > > > > built upon a notion of quality that is ignorant of systems -- > > > > that is the degree to which unproductive thinking has > > > penetrated > > > > social science. > > > > > > > > Yet there is much more to it still. Recently I have also come to > > > > a surprising awareness that developmental prerogatives have > > > > rather a significant amount in common with spiritual ones. So I > > > > would offer > > > broader > > > > advice than Michael's of staying clear of hardship. It may be > > > > that in > > > that > > > > "nadir" something surprising may be discovered. For anyone with > > > > a passion "job security" is not a goal, at best it is a means to > > > > an ends, at worst > > > it > > > > is an obstacle. > > > > > > > > Over and out. :) > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > Huw > > > > > > > > On 20 February 2018 at 07:12, Alfredo Jornet Gil > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Huw, Helena, and all, > > > > > > > > > > thanks to you both for taking the discussion where I was > > > > > hoping it to > > > go > > > > > further: first, towards a reflection on the nature of training > > > > > academic scholars go through as it concerns the classical > > > > > problem of learning "transfer"; and then, as it regards the > > > > > question of academic freedom > > > > (which > > > > > actually may be the same question, just taken in a language > > > > > more > > > adequate > > > > > to an ecological understanding of the problem). This is > > > > > absolutely not > > > > just > > > > > an individual problem. And, on that matter, I should be clear > > > > > that I > > > am a > > > > > privileged in a privileged land, where, despite all > > > > > uncertainty and > > > pains > > > > > that my family have gone and go through, I have today a good > > > > > background > > > > and > > > > > network, and probably better prospects than the majority of > > > > > junior > > > > scholars > > > > > out there. Not that I have earned this privilege for nothing: > > > > > my > > > migrant > > > > > history and that of my family is all connected to an effort > > > > > and quest > > > to > > > > > get better chances of academic opportunity in this market > > > > > Helena talks about. But my personal story, as that of the > > > > > historian in the article shared or of my French astronomer > > > > > friend, are relevant in as far as > > > they > > > > > help us reflect on just those questions. They really also make > > > > > one > > > wonder > > > > > on the sense of the term "academic freedom", for the latter > > > > > term cannot > > > > be > > > > > about doing whatever research you want to do independently of > > > > > some > > > market > > > > > conditions and societal needs and economy. We may then pose > > > > > the > > > > questions, > > > > > what type of "freedom" is the "freedom" current systems (of > > > > > incentives, > > > > of > > > > > ISI lists) afford, and what type of system could allow for > > > > > another > > > > meaning > > > > > of the term "freedom"? > > > > > > > > > > Not to get too abstract, I guess that those reflections may be > > > > > best pondered along concrete cases, if people is willing to > > > > > take on Helena's suggestion to share particular stories of all > > > > > that goes into getting > > > into > > > > > secured academic job positions, or else, of pursuing > > > > > (in)dependent > > > > careers > > > > > outside/at the borders of/across academia. > > > > > > > > > > Alfredo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________ > > > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > > > > > > > > > > on behalf of Helena Worthen > > > > > Sent: 19 February 2018 19:19 > > > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > > > > > > > In the interests of widening the discussion: > > > > > > > > > > I?ve described my work history before on this list ? > > > > > basically, moving from teaching literature and writing (with > > > > > stopovers in landscape architecture and theater production) to > > > > > concern about the working conditions of teachers, especially > > > > > academics in higher education, the > > > 75% > > > > > who are contingent/adjuncts. The concern is both for the > > > > > people > > > employed > > > > > this way and for the integrity of the institutions that employ > > > > > them. I eventually engaged this concern by working with and > > > > > for the labor > > > > movement, > > > > > ending up first working for the garment/apparel workers union > > > > > in Philadelphia and then at the Labor Educaiton Program at the > > > > > U of > > > > Illinois, > > > > > from which I retired in 2010. > > > > > > > > > > The new twist to this story is about the employment of > > > > > academics on short-term contracts in Viet Nam, under > > > > > conditions that seem to be increasingly frequent in the > > > > > ?developing? world, where the market for education is booming. University World News http://www. > > > > > universityworldnews.com/ tracks this phenomenon and includes > > > occasinal > > > > > critical articles about the competition for rankings. The > > > > > university > > > > where > > > > > my husband and I have been teaching on and off since 2015, Ton > > > > > Duc > > > Thang > > > > in > > > > > Ho Chi Minh City, recruits professors from all over the world > > > > > with a promise of $2,000 per month US ? but extending their > > > > > contracts depends > > > on > > > > > producing articles published in journals on the ISI list; the > > > > > nature of this list is worth taking a look at. The impact of > > > > > this practice on the culture and student body is not all bad. > > > > > > > > > > My point here is to place the issue of the challenge of > > > > > getting a tenure-track job in a global context. This is not > > > > > just an individual problem. > > > > > > > > > > I?m willing to go further down this line of discussion. > > > > > However, > > > > academics > > > > > are often reluctant to reveal and compare their working > > > > > conditions on > > > an > > > > > ?academic? discussion list. Maybe by putting up the issue of > > > > > what > > > > academic > > > > > freedom requires, and how these requirements fare in the > > > > > global market > > > > for > > > > > higher education, we can shed the embarassment of revealing > > > > > information about our own experiences with getting the brass > > > > > ring of a full-time, secure job. > > > > > > > > > > Let?s see if anyone picks up on this. Maybe I?m being too vague. > > > > > > > > > > Helena Worthen > > > > > helenaworthen@gmail.com > > > > > Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 Blog US/ Viet Nam: > > > > > helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > > > > skype: helena.worthen1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 19, 2018, at 9:19 AM, Huw Lloyd > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > The article describes accumulating large amounts of knowledge > > > > pertaining > > > > > to > > > > > > history, which (the author maintains) cannot be turned to > > > > > > other > > > > > endeavours. > > > > > > This, no doubt, is true for her. If, however, her approach to > > > studying > > > > > > history had been systemic, then there would have been a > > > > > > powerful form > > > > of > > > > > > re-application and continuity in any work that was turned to. > > > > > > Perhaps > > > > the > > > > > > same can be said for "phd/postdoc training". If it cannot be > > > > > > reused > > > or > > > > > > isn't enabling, what, substantively, is it? > > > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > Huw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 18 February 2018 at 18:32, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > > > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >> Really inspiring words and work, Francine. I do see community > > > colleges > > > > > and > > > > > >> many other educational settings apart from universities as > > > > > >> really > > > > > valuable > > > > > >> and exciting opportunities; the PhD and following postdoc etc > > > training > > > > > in > > > > > >> universities, however, tend to be very much targeted towards > > > > > >> a very > > > > > narrow > > > > > >> spectrum of positions, or at least that's been my experience. > > > > > >> I am > > > > very > > > > > >> happy that this thread may widen that scope and make visible > > > > > >> other > > > > > paths. > > > > > >> And as Mike suggested, it would be very interesting to hear > > > > > >> from > > > > several > > > > > >> others who have followed distinct trajectories apart from the > > > > > >> phd-postdoc-assist/assoc. prof-prof, and yet made a career in > > > > > >> touch > > > > with > > > > > >> most of what was developed in the junior (phd and few later) > > years. > > > > > >> Thanks! > > > > > >> Alfredo > > > > > >> ________________________________________ > > > > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > > edu> > > > > > >> on behalf of Larry Smolucha > > > > > >> Sent: 18 February 2018 06:20 > > > > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Message from Francine Smolucha on a scholar's life with or > > > > > >> without > > > > > academia > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Alfredo, > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> There are other jobs that pay well (sometimes with tenure and > > > > > >> early retirement benefits) - besides professorships at four > > > > > >> year colleges > > > > and > > > > > >> universities. Administrative and support staff positions pay > > well. > > > > And > > > > > >> don't overlook community colleges, technical colleges, and > > > > > >> public > > > > grade > > > > > >> schools and high schools. There is also the private sector > > > > > >> and > > > > > government > > > > > >> jobs. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> As a 'low status' community college professor, I managed to > > > translate > > > > > >> Vygotsky's > > > > > >> > > > > > >> overlooked writings on creativity (back in the 1980's) and > > > introduced > > > > > his > > > > > >> theory of creativity to academia. I got early retirement at > > > > > >> age 53 > > > > and > > > > > >> continue to write and publish. While my Ph.D from the > > > > > >> University of > > > > > Chicago > > > > > >> gave me academic bona fides, it was the quality of the > > > > > >> scholarly > > > work > > > > > that > > > > > >> ultimately mattered. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> I was always inspired by the harsh circumstances of > > > > > >> Vygotsky's life > > > > and > > > > > >> how he still kept on writing. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> [When I felt really sorry for myself, I would actually say > > > > > >> "Well at > > > > > least > > > > > >> I am not coughing up blood"] > > > > > >> > > > > > >> So many of his works were not published in his lifetime, he > > > > > >> did > > not > > > > > >> collect a royalties check, and they say he was depressed at > the > > > end > > > > > of > > > > > >> his life. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> I leave you with this quote from an ancient Sufi mystic - > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> You can't always get what you want but you can get what you > > > > > >> need > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> . > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> ________________________________ > > > > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > > edu> > > > > > >> on behalf of mike cole > > > > > >> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:07 PM > > > > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Yours is a quandary shared by your generation, Alfredo. > > > > > >> Being allowed to teach and conduct research in a quality > > > > > >> institution > > > > is > > > > > a > > > > > >> great privilege and an > > > > > >> increasingly rarer possibility. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> There are several people on this list who have organized > > > > > >> their lives > > > > to > > > > > be > > > > > >> independent scholars > > > > > >> while staying connected to the core institutions of > > > > > >> disciplinary > > > > > training. > > > > > >> It might be nice to hear > > > > > >> the variety out there. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> It appears pretty certain that the situation is going to get > > > > > >> worse before/if it gets better. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> What can the collective experience of xmca come up with that > > > > > >> would > > > be > > > > > >> useful to the many > > > > > >> of you caught in this meat grinder? > > > > > >> > > > > > >> mike > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > > > > > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > >>> Good luck then, Wagner! > > > > > >>> A > > > > > >>> ________________________________________ > > > > > >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > > > edu > > > > > > > > > > > >>> on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit > > > > > >>> Sent: 18 February 2018 01:07 > > > > > >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity > > > > > >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> This just hit me in the spot... > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> Wagner > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> On Feb 17, 2018 9:48 PM, "Alfredo Jornet Gil" > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>>> I have not been able to contribute to this list as much as > > > > > >>>> I'd > > > like > > > > to > > > > > >>>> lately, among other things, because I need to find a job, > > > > > >>>> and I > > > need > > > > > to > > > > > >>>> make sure that I have checked all those boxes that > > > > > >>>> selection > > > > > committees > > > > > >>>> will check (enough first-authored publications? in good > > > > > >>>> enough > > > > > >> journals? > > > > > >>>> enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? > > > > > >>>> acquiring > > > > funds? > > > > > >>> more > > > > > >>>> than all others candidates? and more than > > > > favoured-for-whatever-other- > > > > > >>> reasons > > > > > >>>> candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these weeks to > > > > > >>>> fill > > > up > > > > a > > > > > >>>> competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> And, although I did not think that it was particularly well > > > written, > > > > > it > > > > > >>>> was both relieving and discouraging to read this article > > > > > >>>> (see link > > > > > >> below, > > > > > >>>> which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague who I > > > > > >>>> think > > > also > > > > > >>>> subscribes this list). The article makes visible the pain > > > > > >>>> scholars > > > > go > > > > > >>>> through when, after so many years of digging and digging > > > > > >>>> and > > > > digging a > > > > > >>>> little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to leave it and > > > > > >>>> find > > > > some > > > > > >>> other > > > > > >>>> thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer who was > > > > > >>>> moving > > > > > >> through > > > > > >>>> the world with his lovely family, short-term project after > > > > short-term > > > > > >>>> project, getting better and better at what he worked on > > > (apparently > > > > he > > > > > >>> was > > > > > >>>> among the few who had expertise in computer modeling > > > > > >>>> simulating > > > some > > > > > >>>> astronomic events) , and finally having to step out > > > > > >>>> academia last > > > > year > > > > > >> to > > > > > >>>> find something else to do, for his family no longer could > > > > > >>>> stand > > > the > > > > > >>>> constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be me soon. > > > > > >>>> And that > > > > may > > > > > >>> not > > > > > >>>> be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the story > > > > > >>>> seems to > > > be > > > > > >>> quite > > > > > >>>> endemic to academia and may be interesting to some of you: > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Loses-When/ > > > > > >>>> 24 > > > > > >>>> 2560 > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> Alfredo > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > > > Assistant Professor > > > Department of Anthropology > > > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > > > Brigham Young University > > > Provo, UT 84602 > > > WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu > > > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > > > > > > > > > From glassman.13@osu.edu Mon Feb 26 06:21:12 2018 From: glassman.13@osu.edu (Glassman, Michael) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2018 14:21:12 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In-Reply-To: References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> <1518914964416.39650@iped.uio.no> <1518978734957.93647@iped.uio.no> <87FCF1E0-1B28-4F92-A85C-9E5A10424B74@gmail.com> <1519110745104.46827@iped.uio.no> <1519598399026.36406@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AD5C72@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AD5D10@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> Message-ID: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AD5D49@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> By the way, the fact that Russ Ackoff doesn't seem to realize this is a century old debate fought by some of the most influential educators in history sort of makes the point about the dangers of STEM education and how it limits us. Michael -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Huw Lloyd Sent: Monday, February 26, 2018 8:57 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship Perhaps this will help: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzS5V5-0VsA I'm not sure I'd use Ackoff's terms (wisdom), yet the meaning is appropriate. The word play he uses also potential obscures the genetic basis for the distinctions. I suppose he is endeavouring to provide pithy expressions to summarise more complex processes. Best, Huw On 26 February 2018 at 13:32, Glassman, Michael wrote: > Hi Huw, > > Thanks for the response. I'm not really sure I'm understanding what > you are trying to say. I was going to say what I think, but I'm not > sure I have enough of a grasp of your point for it to be effective. > > Michael > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Huw Lloyd > Sent: Monday, February 26, 2018 5:28 AM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > Hi Michael, > > The issue can be explored in terms of effectiveness. Superficial > approaches may succeed (technologically) yet inevitably create messes > through a lack of awareness of integration issues. Knowing how to > design well entails much improvement in this awareness, with the > broader (rarely > touched) reaches of design encompassing the developmental and > ecological requirements of the practitioners, users, resources, pollution etc . > Operationally, however, one can be deemed useful without awareness of > this, and the majority of "technological" work is undertaken in > ignorance of integration issues. > Instead efficiency becomes a priority which is reinforced through > bureaucratic procedures. Really, one would probably lose the majority > of technologically focused workers in a technical discussion of > developmental design. It probably can be considered relatively > advanced knowledge, yet it can be reached tractably through technical > problem solving. How one would come to an awareness of integration > issues without STEM practice (graduating on to systems knowledge) is a > different matter, probably only vaguely and ineffectively. Hence the > basis for knowledge is not necessarily different between social > science and STEM, rather there is a difference in focus, with the > asymmetry being derived from their different foci and what is required > to be effective. If one considers that the value of social science is > in realisation of effective organisation, then it follows that this > necessarily requires relatively advanced practices to achieve effective results. > > Best, > Huw > > On 26 February 2018 at 01:15, Glassman, Michael > wrote: > > > Hi Huw, > > > > Perhaps the opposite is also true though. STEM researchers can > > better understand what they are doing if they are well versed in the > > social sciences. Understand the history and the meaning of what they > > are doing so they do not act as androids (sorry, been watching the > > Aliens trilogy of late). Perhaps we made the wrong calculation. We > > have lost control of our great STEM innovations because the people > > using them don't understand the social webs that they create. So we > > have people pushing xMOOCs (whatever happened to MOOCs anyway) as > > saving education (and also a bundle so everybody gets tax cuts, > > wheeee!), saying that they are good because they can reach many, the > > proverbial long tail, with great education (Harvard, Stanford). Yet > > nobody asks the question, "Why is this a good thing." There really > > isn't much supporting this in earlier distance education. There is > > actually more evidence of how dangerous it is (Participatory Action Research). > > > > Michael > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Huw Lloyd > > Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2018 7:32 PM > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > I would ask, what makes you think you have an ecology (or niche)? It > > seems that the notion of topologically derived ecologies is still > > bandied about since Bronfenbrenner (1977), though I do not know > > whether he managed to refine (overhaul and improve) his notions into > > something integrated and agent-centric. One does not provide an > > ecology or an environment. The environment is different for > > everyone, a simple consideration of a rock-face or climbing wall is > > sufficient to grasp this -- the so called environment (the rock > > face) is different to each climber, their environment is that which > > is appropriate to them which includes contexts well beyond what is > > established in an institution. From what I can gauge, historically, > slack was deliberately introduced into courses to afford personal enquiry. > > There was the basic work and then there was the genuine enquiry. Who > > in their right mind wants to write an exam essay on a question they > > are expected to pre-write and repeat by memory? Why would someone > > who enjoys thinking about their subject want to go through that kind > > of impoverished tedium? These systems are obviously geared for "delivery". > > > > Perhaps the biggest cultural shift can be achieved through > > instituting joint and personal enquiry. A teacher that stands before > > their class and delivers their subject inevitably obscures and > > obstructs the process of enquiry, although many students will have > > learnt from a young age that this is what to expect and demand. > > Engagement with genuine problems rather than what students are > > expected to do is the basic orientational issue. Dispose of grades, > > then anyone who isn't > interested is free to go home. > > > > The advance of STEM research is probably a good thing for social science. > > For productive work, social science must understand the structure of > > STEM based work, in addition to bureaucratic processes and > > circumstances for creative work. Sticking one's head in the sand > > over STEM-like research serves merely to perpetuate the impoverished > > side of social science. It reminds me of the scene in Pirsig's Zen > > and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance in which a couple lack the > > wherewithal to fix a dripping faucet that gives them grief and > > instead choose to ignore it. Though it was a very long time ago, > > Pirsig's book may have contributed to my understanding of quality > > and might be thought of as an exploration of some social issues > > pertaining to technical enterprises. Another good text to appreciate > > quality more directly, probably outside the formal area of STEM, is > > Alshuller's Innovation > Algorithm. > > > > Warm regards to you Henry, Greg, Alfredo. > > > > Best, > > Huw > > > > On 25 February 2018 at 22:39, Alfredo Jornet Gil > > > > wrote: > > > > > Greg, Huw, and others, I do often get worried that in the formals > > > and informal meetings at our department (department of education), > > > conversations tend to focus on the "micro" developments that you > > > mention (students, grades, getting a next grant, getting that > > > paper published, making sure you've got enough) most of the time, > > > and not so much on what society we would like to have, and how our > > > institution could/should contribute to that. I do not have any > > > suggestions on the type of studies that you ask about?dealing with > > > how ecologies of scholarship in academia lead to given > > > developmental dynamics?other than the classical studies in STS, > > > like Latour & Woolgar's on laboratory life, or S. L. Star's. But > > > when I look forward at what lies between me (or anyone in my > > > institution) and a change in the way this institution has impact > > > in the life of many, what I see is lots of routines, habits, > > > documents, and paperwork entangled in the middle, such that the > > > idea "mediation all the way through" makes all the sense. And > > > seeing things that way (from the ecological perspective), makes > > > the possibility of changing things to look actually feasible, or more accurately perhaps, imagine-able. > > > I'd like to continue being part of the ecology to be able to be > > > also be part of its changing it. I hope others will bring more > > > specific literature to bear. I am already > > downloading some of Peter Sloterdijk's to read. > > > > > > Alfredo > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________ > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > on behalf of Greg Thompson > > > > > > Sent: 24 February 2018 17:45 > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > > > I appreciate Huw's concern about academia and the push to orient > > > to a broader and more systemic concern with "development". I think > > > that this is what institutions of higher education are supposed to > > > have, right? - at the very least a concern for the development of > > > individual "students", but also, one would hope, a concern for > > > "development" at a longer timescale (e.g., how to be a better > > > society, > a better world). > > > They certainly tout these in their promo materials. > > > > > > And yet, in practice, these institutions often fall back on > > > bureaucratic or economic logics. Bureaucratic logic goes something > > > like, "just publish (in "good" (i.e., high impact factor) > > > journals), who cares what you publish so long as we can count it > > > to determine its > > (and your) 'value'(!)". > > > > > > As for the economic logic, I was just talking with Rick Shweder > > > the other day about this issue and he expressed the concern about > > > the push towards STEM education at the expense of all else and the > > > way that STEM buildings are slowly starting to take over his > > > campus (the University of Chicago - a place that was long held to > > > be a hold out of liberal arts education - apparently they now have > > > an engineering program). He suggested that this is tied to an > > > early 80's court decision that gave universities ownership of > > > patents developed on their > > campuses. > > > > > > To my mind, this calls to mind a concern with ecologies of > > > development (across the shorter and longer timescales). What are > > > the ecologies (social, economic, political, etc.) within which > > > development (at these various > > > timescales) occurs in our world today? This is really a question > > > of what is possible and/or what is likely with regard to becoming. > > > What are the forms of life and forms of development that are > > > sustainable given the larger ecologies in which that development happens? > > > > > > And for thinking through that problem, I've had a hard time > > > thinking of anyone who has better thought through this problem > > > than Marx - at the longer timescale of development, that is > > > (Vygotsky would, of course, be better at thinking through > > > development at the shorter timescale of ontogeny). > > > > > > I'd love to hear others' thoughts on those who have studied > > > activities that can begin to shed light on these ecologies of > > > development (particularly at the longer timescale). Any > > > thoughts/suggestions? I would imagine this work considering > > > various kinds of institutions that run the gamut - from venture > > > capitalist firms to non-profits to governmental institutions to > > > institutions of higher education. I would presume that each of > > > these kinds of institutions would have a local ecology within > > > which they work, but I am tempted to imagine some kind of global > > > meta-ecology (perhaps Marx's "global > > > capitalism"?) within which each of these local ecologies operates. > > > I'd be curious about actual research that has been done > > > documenting the nature of these ecologies - e.g., what kinds of > > > resources are available to be exploited? What kinds of > > > possibilities are there for different forms of life? What institutional organisms can thrive? > > > Which are dying off? (and just to be clear, I am intending a > > > biological/evolutionary nature of the metaphor). > > > > > > It seems that this kind of work would be most likely to have been > > > done by folks in the CHAT world, but perhaps the scale (of time > > > and > > > space) is a bit beyond the scales that CHAT folks prefer to consider? > > > > > > (I should add that I've recently discovered the work of Peter > > > Sloterdijk's Bubbles trilogy and am curious if anyone has any > > > thoughts on the value of his approach - it seems to fit very well > > > with Marx and with CHAT/Vygotsky, my only initial concern was that > > > he seems to fly a little fast and loose with pyschoanalytics at > > > times - not a serious problem, but perhaps in a few places). > > > > > > Sympathetically, > > > greg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 1:57 PM, Huw Lloyd > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Well, I would say there is more to it than simply > > > > transfer-ability, which might be thought of as a good > > > > bureaucratic requirement. Really what is required is genuine > > > > development -- reorganisation of thought and > > > learning. > > > > That is what is significant at a personal level, which is also > > > > the basis > > > of > > > > insights and creative work (i.e. personal knowledge rather than > > > > second > > > hand > > > > knowledge). The researcher in the blog article does not evince > > > > this (with allusions to the nature of her training). There is > > > > the history school children learn, which largely concerns the > > > > use of memory, and then there > > > is > > > > the history of conditions, relations and processes, which > > > > concerns protracted thought. This developmental emphasis is what > > > > is lacking in institutions which is why I have frequently pointed it out. > > > > > > > > This principle apples to "secure" jobs too. The jobs I have > > > > walked away from have been due to the overly narrow scope, where > > > > I felt it was necessary to be far more ambitious to achieve > > > > modest satisfaction, an ambition which included achieving the > > > > wider scope within the norms established. Similar issues pertain > > > > to my peripheral engagement with academia. Twenty years ago, > > > > after completing a masters in cognitive > > > science > > > > (a good year), I decided against pursuing any further formal > > > > education > > > with > > > > any immediacy due to my sense that what I was encountering in > > > > the subject (and related subjects) was fundamentally wrong or > > > > inadequate, but I couldn't quite discern what that was. So, for > > > > me, I had no interest in furthering the academic course at the > > > > time, because I was concerned with understanding, doing, > > > > discovering and development, not being a "good researcher". I > > > > was and am uninterested in the trappings of academia, what it > > > > looks like from the outside (with dubious ethics of promoting > > > > those in society who least need it) -- hence I am not too > > > > bothered about where the experiences come from. After all, if > > > > you want sound knowledge then it should be validated in places > > > > where it counts (in action), not in > > an echo chamber of words. > > > > > > > > >From my (developmental) perspective academia appears to be > > > > >chockfull of > > > > unproductive thinking. The lack of systems understanding in the > > > > social sciences (which has been pointed out by key persons for > > > > two > > > > generations) > > > I > > > > find to be quite incredible. This, as far as I can see, is the > > > > panacea to the stasis and lethargy that I have seen in certain > > > > institutions, where there are people in secure jobs with no > > > > interest in revitalising an institution (perhaps the same people > > > > who rely upon their status for authority). In the UK, in the > > > > social sciences, the whole social science infrastructure is > > > > built upon a notion of quality that is ignorant of systems -- > > > > that is the degree to which unproductive thinking has > > > penetrated > > > > social science. > > > > > > > > Yet there is much more to it still. Recently I have also come to > > > > a surprising awareness that developmental prerogatives have > > > > rather a significant amount in common with spiritual ones. So I > > > > would offer > > > broader > > > > advice than Michael's of staying clear of hardship. It may be > > > > that in > > > that > > > > "nadir" something surprising may be discovered. For anyone with > > > > a passion "job security" is not a goal, at best it is a means to > > > > an ends, at worst > > > it > > > > is an obstacle. > > > > > > > > Over and out. :) > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > Huw > > > > > > > > On 20 February 2018 at 07:12, Alfredo Jornet Gil > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Huw, Helena, and all, > > > > > > > > > > thanks to you both for taking the discussion where I was > > > > > hoping it to > > > go > > > > > further: first, towards a reflection on the nature of training > > > > > academic scholars go through as it concerns the classical > > > > > problem of learning "transfer"; and then, as it regards the > > > > > question of academic freedom > > > > (which > > > > > actually may be the same question, just taken in a language > > > > > more > > > adequate > > > > > to an ecological understanding of the problem). This is > > > > > absolutely not > > > > just > > > > > an individual problem. And, on that matter, I should be clear > > > > > that I > > > am a > > > > > privileged in a privileged land, where, despite all > > > > > uncertainty and > > > pains > > > > > that my family have gone and go through, I have today a good > > > > > background > > > > and > > > > > network, and probably better prospects than the majority of > > > > > junior > > > > scholars > > > > > out there. Not that I have earned this privilege for nothing: > > > > > my > > > migrant > > > > > history and that of my family is all connected to an effort > > > > > and quest > > > to > > > > > get better chances of academic opportunity in this market > > > > > Helena talks about. But my personal story, as that of the > > > > > historian in the article shared or of my French astronomer > > > > > friend, are relevant in as far as > > > they > > > > > help us reflect on just those questions. They really also make > > > > > one > > > wonder > > > > > on the sense of the term "academic freedom", for the latter > > > > > term cannot > > > > be > > > > > about doing whatever research you want to do independently of > > > > > some > > > market > > > > > conditions and societal needs and economy. We may then pose > > > > > the > > > > questions, > > > > > what type of "freedom" is the "freedom" current systems (of > > > > > incentives, > > > > of > > > > > ISI lists) afford, and what type of system could allow for > > > > > another > > > > meaning > > > > > of the term "freedom"? > > > > > > > > > > Not to get too abstract, I guess that those reflections may be > > > > > best pondered along concrete cases, if people is willing to > > > > > take on Helena's suggestion to share particular stories of all > > > > > that goes into getting > > > into > > > > > secured academic job positions, or else, of pursuing > > > > > (in)dependent > > > > careers > > > > > outside/at the borders of/across academia. > > > > > > > > > > Alfredo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________ > > > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > > > > > > > > > > on behalf of Helena Worthen > > > > > Sent: 19 February 2018 19:19 > > > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > > > > > > > In the interests of widening the discussion: > > > > > > > > > > I?ve described my work history before on this list ? > > > > > basically, moving from teaching literature and writing (with > > > > > stopovers in landscape architecture and theater production) to > > > > > concern about the working conditions of teachers, especially > > > > > academics in higher education, the > > > 75% > > > > > who are contingent/adjuncts. The concern is both for the > > > > > people > > > employed > > > > > this way and for the integrity of the institutions that employ > > > > > them. I eventually engaged this concern by working with and > > > > > for the labor > > > > movement, > > > > > ending up first working for the garment/apparel workers union > > > > > in Philadelphia and then at the Labor Educaiton Program at the > > > > > U of > > > > Illinois, > > > > > from which I retired in 2010. > > > > > > > > > > The new twist to this story is about the employment of > > > > > academics on short-term contracts in Viet Nam, under > > > > > conditions that seem to be increasingly frequent in the > > > > > ?developing? world, where the market for education is booming. University World News http://www. > > > > > universityworldnews.com/ tracks this phenomenon and includes > > > occasinal > > > > > critical articles about the competition for rankings. The > > > > > university > > > > where > > > > > my husband and I have been teaching on and off since 2015, Ton > > > > > Duc > > > Thang > > > > in > > > > > Ho Chi Minh City, recruits professors from all over the world > > > > > with a promise of $2,000 per month US ? but extending their > > > > > contracts depends > > > on > > > > > producing articles published in journals on the ISI list; the > > > > > nature of this list is worth taking a look at. The impact of > > > > > this practice on the culture and student body is not all bad. > > > > > > > > > > My point here is to place the issue of the challenge of > > > > > getting a tenure-track job in a global context. This is not > > > > > just an individual problem. > > > > > > > > > > I?m willing to go further down this line of discussion. > > > > > However, > > > > academics > > > > > are often reluctant to reveal and compare their working > > > > > conditions on > > > an > > > > > ?academic? discussion list. Maybe by putting up the issue of > > > > > what > > > > academic > > > > > freedom requires, and how these requirements fare in the > > > > > global market > > > > for > > > > > higher education, we can shed the embarassment of revealing > > > > > information about our own experiences with getting the brass > > > > > ring of a full-time, secure job. > > > > > > > > > > Let?s see if anyone picks up on this. Maybe I?m being too vague. > > > > > > > > > > Helena Worthen > > > > > helenaworthen@gmail.com > > > > > Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 Blog US/ Viet Nam: > > > > > helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > > > > skype: helena.worthen1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 19, 2018, at 9:19 AM, Huw Lloyd > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > The article describes accumulating large amounts of knowledge > > > > pertaining > > > > > to > > > > > > history, which (the author maintains) cannot be turned to > > > > > > other > > > > > endeavours. > > > > > > This, no doubt, is true for her. If, however, her approach to > > > studying > > > > > > history had been systemic, then there would have been a > > > > > > powerful form > > > > of > > > > > > re-application and continuity in any work that was turned to. > > > > > > Perhaps > > > > the > > > > > > same can be said for "phd/postdoc training". If it cannot be > > > > > > reused > > > or > > > > > > isn't enabling, what, substantively, is it? > > > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > Huw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 18 February 2018 at 18:32, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > > > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >> Really inspiring words and work, Francine. I do see community > > > colleges > > > > > and > > > > > >> many other educational settings apart from universities as > > > > > >> really > > > > > valuable > > > > > >> and exciting opportunities; the PhD and following postdoc etc > > > training > > > > > in > > > > > >> universities, however, tend to be very much targeted towards > > > > > >> a very > > > > > narrow > > > > > >> spectrum of positions, or at least that's been my experience. > > > > > >> I am > > > > very > > > > > >> happy that this thread may widen that scope and make visible > > > > > >> other > > > > > paths. > > > > > >> And as Mike suggested, it would be very interesting to hear > > > > > >> from > > > > several > > > > > >> others who have followed distinct trajectories apart from the > > > > > >> phd-postdoc-assist/assoc. prof-prof, and yet made a career in > > > > > >> touch > > > > with > > > > > >> most of what was developed in the junior (phd and few later) > > years. > > > > > >> Thanks! > > > > > >> Alfredo > > > > > >> ________________________________________ > > > > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > > edu> > > > > > >> on behalf of Larry Smolucha > > > > > >> Sent: 18 February 2018 06:20 > > > > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Message from Francine Smolucha on a scholar's life with or > > > > > >> without > > > > > academia > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Alfredo, > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> There are other jobs that pay well (sometimes with tenure and > > > > > >> early retirement benefits) - besides professorships at four > > > > > >> year colleges > > > > and > > > > > >> universities. Administrative and support staff positions pay > > well. > > > > And > > > > > >> don't overlook community colleges, technical colleges, and > > > > > >> public > > > > grade > > > > > >> schools and high schools. There is also the private sector > > > > > >> and > > > > > government > > > > > >> jobs. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> As a 'low status' community college professor, I managed to > > > translate > > > > > >> Vygotsky's > > > > > >> > > > > > >> overlooked writings on creativity (back in the 1980's) and > > > introduced > > > > > his > > > > > >> theory of creativity to academia. I got early retirement at > > > > > >> age 53 > > > > and > > > > > >> continue to write and publish. While my Ph.D from the > > > > > >> University of > > > > > Chicago > > > > > >> gave me academic bona fides, it was the quality of the > > > > > >> scholarly > > > work > > > > > that > > > > > >> ultimately mattered. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> I was always inspired by the harsh circumstances of > > > > > >> Vygotsky's life > > > > and > > > > > >> how he still kept on writing. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> [When I felt really sorry for myself, I would actually say > > > > > >> "Well at > > > > > least > > > > > >> I am not coughing up blood"] > > > > > >> > > > > > >> So many of his works were not published in his lifetime, he > > > > > >> did > > not > > > > > >> collect a royalties check, and they say he was depressed at > the > > > end > > > > > of > > > > > >> his life. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> I leave you with this quote from an ancient Sufi mystic - > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> You can't always get what you want but you can get what you > > > > > >> need > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> . > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> ________________________________ > > > > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > > edu> > > > > > >> on behalf of mike cole > > > > > >> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:07 PM > > > > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Yours is a quandary shared by your generation, Alfredo. > > > > > >> Being allowed to teach and conduct research in a quality > > > > > >> institution > > > > is > > > > > a > > > > > >> great privilege and an > > > > > >> increasingly rarer possibility. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> There are several people on this list who have organized > > > > > >> their lives > > > > to > > > > > be > > > > > >> independent scholars > > > > > >> while staying connected to the core institutions of > > > > > >> disciplinary > > > > > training. > > > > > >> It might be nice to hear > > > > > >> the variety out there. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> It appears pretty certain that the situation is going to get > > > > > >> worse before/if it gets better. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> What can the collective experience of xmca come up with that > > > > > >> would > > > be > > > > > >> useful to the many > > > > > >> of you caught in this meat grinder? > > > > > >> > > > > > >> mike > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > > > > > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > >>> Good luck then, Wagner! > > > > > >>> A > > > > > >>> ________________________________________ > > > > > >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > > > edu > > > > > > > > > > > >>> on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit > > > > > >>> Sent: 18 February 2018 01:07 > > > > > >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity > > > > > >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> This just hit me in the spot... > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> Wagner > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> On Feb 17, 2018 9:48 PM, "Alfredo Jornet Gil" > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>>> I have not been able to contribute to this list as much as > > > > > >>>> I'd > > > like > > > > to > > > > > >>>> lately, among other things, because I need to find a job, > > > > > >>>> and I > > > need > > > > > to > > > > > >>>> make sure that I have checked all those boxes that > > > > > >>>> selection > > > > > committees > > > > > >>>> will check (enough first-authored publications? in good > > > > > >>>> enough > > > > > >> journals? > > > > > >>>> enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? > > > > > >>>> acquiring > > > > funds? > > > > > >>> more > > > > > >>>> than all others candidates? and more than > > > > favoured-for-whatever-other- > > > > > >>> reasons > > > > > >>>> candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these weeks to > > > > > >>>> fill > > > up > > > > a > > > > > >>>> competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> And, although I did not think that it was particularly well > > > written, > > > > > it > > > > > >>>> was both relieving and discouraging to read this article > > > > > >>>> (see link > > > > > >> below, > > > > > >>>> which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague who I > > > > > >>>> think > > > also > > > > > >>>> subscribes this list). The article makes visible the pain > > > > > >>>> scholars > > > > go > > > > > >>>> through when, after so many years of digging and digging > > > > > >>>> and > > > > digging a > > > > > >>>> little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to leave it and > > > > > >>>> find > > > > some > > > > > >>> other > > > > > >>>> thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer who was > > > > > >>>> moving > > > > > >> through > > > > > >>>> the world with his lovely family, short-term project after > > > > short-term > > > > > >>>> project, getting better and better at what he worked on > > > (apparently > > > > he > > > > > >>> was > > > > > >>>> among the few who had expertise in computer modeling > > > > > >>>> simulating > > > some > > > > > >>>> astronomic events) , and finally having to step out > > > > > >>>> academia last > > > > year > > > > > >> to > > > > > >>>> find something else to do, for his family no longer could > > > > > >>>> stand > > > the > > > > > >>>> constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be me soon. > > > > > >>>> And that > > > > may > > > > > >>> not > > > > > >>>> be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the story > > > > > >>>> seems to > > > be > > > > > >>> quite > > > > > >>>> endemic to academia and may be interesting to some of you: > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Loses-When/ > > > > > >>>> 24 > > > > > >>>> 2560 > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> Alfredo > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > > > Assistant Professor > > > Department of Anthropology > > > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > > > Brigham Young University > > > Provo, UT 84602 > > > WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu > > > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > > > > > > > > > From greg.a.thompson@gmail.com Mon Feb 26 07:05:43 2018 From: greg.a.thompson@gmail.com (Greg Thompson) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2018 08:05:43 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In-Reply-To: References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> <1518914964416.39650@iped.uio.no> <1518978734957.93647@iped.uio.no> <87FCF1E0-1B28-4F92-A85C-9E5A10424B74@gmail.com> <1519110745104.46827@iped.uio.no> <1519598399026.36406@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AD5C72@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> Message-ID: And here is a nice article that speaks to the bureaucratic logic that I was mentioning (the author refers to "the all-administrative institution"): https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/whose-university-is-it-anyway/#! A quote from it: "The revolution is over and the administrators have won. But the persistence of traditional structures and language has led some to think that the fight over the institution is now just beginning. This is a mistake. As with most revolutions, open conflict occurs only after real power has already changed hands." -greg On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 6:27 PM, Martin Packer wrote: > On STEM and social science: > > < doctors-revolt-bernard-lown.html?action=click&pgtype= > Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col- > left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav= > opinion-c-col-left-region 02/24/opinion/sunday/doctors-revolt-bernard-lown.html? > action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading& > module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c-col- > left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region>>> > > On measures of learning: > > measure-learning-outcomes.html?action=click&pgtype= > Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col- > left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav= > opinion-c-col-left-region 02/23/opinion/sunday/colleges-measure-learning-outcomes. > html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story- > heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c- > col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region>> > > Martin > > > > > > On Feb 25, 2018, at 8:15 PM, Glassman, Michael > wrote: > > > > Hi Huw, > > > > Perhaps the opposite is also true though. STEM researchers can better > understand what they are doing if they are well versed in the social > sciences. Understand the history and the meaning of what they are doing so > they do not act as androids (sorry, been watching the Aliens trilogy of > late). Perhaps we made the wrong calculation. We have lost control of our > great STEM innovations because the people using them don't understand the > social webs that they create. So we have people pushing xMOOCs (whatever > happened to MOOCs anyway) as saving education (and also a bundle so > everybody gets tax cuts, wheeee!), saying that they are good because they > can reach many, the proverbial long tail, with great education (Harvard, > Stanford). Yet nobody asks the question, "Why is this a good thing." There > really isn't much supporting this in earlier distance education. There is > actually more evidence of how dangerous it is (Participatory Action > Research). > > > > Michael > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Huw Lloyd > > Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2018 7:32 PM > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > I would ask, what makes you think you have an ecology (or niche)? It > seems that the notion of topologically derived ecologies is still bandied > about since Bronfenbrenner (1977), though I do not know whether he managed > to refine (overhaul and improve) his notions into something integrated and > agent-centric. One does not provide an ecology or an environment. The > environment is different for everyone, a simple consideration of a > rock-face or climbing wall is sufficient to grasp this -- the so called > environment (the rock face) is different to each climber, their environment > is that which is appropriate to them which includes contexts well beyond > what is established in an institution. From what I can gauge, historically, > slack was deliberately introduced into courses to afford personal enquiry. > > There was the basic work and then there was the genuine enquiry. Who in > their right mind wants to write an exam essay on a question they are > expected to pre-write and repeat by memory? Why would someone who enjoys > thinking about their subject want to go through that kind of impoverished > tedium? These systems are obviously geared for "delivery". > > > > Perhaps the biggest cultural shift can be achieved through instituting > joint and personal enquiry. A teacher that stands before their class and > delivers their subject inevitably obscures and obstructs the process of > enquiry, although many students will have learnt from a young age that this > is what to expect and demand. Engagement with genuine problems rather than > what students are expected to do is the basic orientational issue. Dispose > of grades, then anyone who isn't interested is free to go home. > > > > The advance of STEM research is probably a good thing for social science. > > For productive work, social science must understand the structure of > STEM based work, in addition to bureaucratic processes and circumstances > for creative work. Sticking one's head in the sand over STEM-like research > serves merely to perpetuate the impoverished side of social science. It > reminds me of the scene in Pirsig's Zen and the Art of Motorcycle > Maintenance in which a couple lack the wherewithal to fix a dripping faucet > that gives them grief and instead choose to ignore it. Though it was a very > long time ago, Pirsig's book may have contributed to my understanding of > quality and might be thought of as an exploration of some social issues > pertaining to technical enterprises. Another good text to appreciate > quality more directly, probably outside the formal area of STEM, is > Alshuller's Innovation Algorithm. > > > > Warm regards to you Henry, Greg, Alfredo. > > > > Best, > > Huw > > > > On 25 February 2018 at 22:39, Alfredo Jornet Gil > > wrote: > > > >> Greg, Huw, and others, I do often get worried that in the formals and > >> informal meetings at our department (department of education), > >> conversations tend to focus on the "micro" developments that you > >> mention (students, grades, getting a next grant, getting that paper > >> published, making sure you've got enough) most of the time, and not so > >> much on what society we would like to have, and how our institution > >> could/should contribute to that. I do not have any suggestions on the > >> type of studies that you ask about?dealing with how ecologies of > >> scholarship in academia lead to given developmental dynamics?other > >> than the classical studies in STS, like Latour & Woolgar's on > >> laboratory life, or S. L. Star's. But when I look forward at what lies > >> between me (or anyone in my institution) and a change in the way this > >> institution has impact in the life of many, what I see is lots of > >> routines, habits, documents, and paperwork entangled in the middle, > >> such that the idea "mediation all the way through" makes all the > >> sense. And seeing things that way (from the ecological perspective), > >> makes the possibility of changing things to look actually feasible, or > >> more accurately perhaps, imagine-able. I'd like to continue being part > >> of the ecology to be able to be also be part of its changing it. I > >> hope others will bring more specific literature to bear. I am already > downloading some of Peter Sloterdijk's to read. > >> > >> Alfredo > >> > >> > >> > >> ________________________________________ > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >> on behalf of Greg Thompson > >> > >> Sent: 24 February 2018 17:45 > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > >> > >> I appreciate Huw's concern about academia and the push to orient to a > >> broader and more systemic concern with "development". I think that > >> this is what institutions of higher education are supposed to have, > >> right? - at the very least a concern for the development of individual > >> "students", but also, one would hope, a concern for "development" at a > >> longer timescale (e.g., how to be a better society, a better world). > >> They certainly tout these in their promo materials. > >> > >> And yet, in practice, these institutions often fall back on > >> bureaucratic or economic logics. Bureaucratic logic goes something > >> like, "just publish (in "good" (i.e., high impact factor) journals), > >> who cares what you publish so long as we can count it to determine its > (and your) 'value'(!)". > >> > >> As for the economic logic, I was just talking with Rick Shweder the > >> other day about this issue and he expressed the concern about the push > >> towards STEM education at the expense of all else and the way that > >> STEM buildings are slowly starting to take over his campus (the > >> University of Chicago - a place that was long held to be a hold out of > >> liberal arts education - apparently they now have an engineering > >> program). He suggested that this is tied to an early 80's court > >> decision that gave universities ownership of patents developed on their > campuses. > >> > >> To my mind, this calls to mind a concern with ecologies of development > >> (across the shorter and longer timescales). What are the ecologies > >> (social, economic, political, etc.) within which development (at these > >> various > >> timescales) occurs in our world today? This is really a question of > >> what is possible and/or what is likely with regard to becoming. What > >> are the forms of life and forms of development that are sustainable > >> given the larger ecologies in which that development happens? > >> > >> And for thinking through that problem, I've had a hard time thinking > >> of anyone who has better thought through this problem than Marx - at > >> the longer timescale of development, that is (Vygotsky would, of > >> course, be better at thinking through development at the shorter > >> timescale of ontogeny). > >> > >> I'd love to hear others' thoughts on those who have studied activities > >> that can begin to shed light on these ecologies of development > >> (particularly at the longer timescale). Any thoughts/suggestions? I > >> would imagine this work considering various kinds of institutions that > >> run the gamut - from venture capitalist firms to non-profits to > >> governmental institutions to institutions of higher education. I would > >> presume that each of these kinds of institutions would have a local > >> ecology within which they work, but I am tempted to imagine some kind > >> of global meta-ecology (perhaps Marx's "global > >> capitalism"?) within which each of these local ecologies operates. I'd > >> be curious about actual research that has been done documenting the > >> nature of these ecologies - e.g., what kinds of resources are > >> available to be exploited? What kinds of possibilities are there for > >> different forms of life? What institutional organisms can thrive? > >> Which are dying off? (and just to be clear, I am intending a > >> biological/evolutionary nature of the metaphor). > >> > >> It seems that this kind of work would be most likely to have been done > >> by folks in the CHAT world, but perhaps the scale (of time and space) > >> is a bit beyond the scales that CHAT folks prefer to consider? > >> > >> (I should add that I've recently discovered the work of Peter > >> Sloterdijk's Bubbles trilogy and am curious if anyone has any thoughts > >> on the value of his approach - it seems to fit very well with Marx and > >> with CHAT/Vygotsky, my only initial concern was that he seems to fly a > >> little fast and loose with pyschoanalytics at times - not a serious > >> problem, but perhaps in a few places). > >> > >> Sympathetically, > >> greg > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 1:57 PM, Huw Lloyd > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Well, I would say there is more to it than simply transfer-ability, > >>> which might be thought of as a good bureaucratic requirement. Really > >>> what is required is genuine development -- reorganisation of thought > >>> and > >> learning. > >>> That is what is significant at a personal level, which is also the > >>> basis > >> of > >>> insights and creative work (i.e. personal knowledge rather than > >>> second > >> hand > >>> knowledge). The researcher in the blog article does not evince this > >>> (with allusions to the nature of her training). There is the history > >>> school children learn, which largely concerns the use of memory, and > >>> then there > >> is > >>> the history of conditions, relations and processes, which concerns > >>> protracted thought. This developmental emphasis is what is lacking > >>> in institutions which is why I have frequently pointed it out. > >>> > >>> This principle apples to "secure" jobs too. The jobs I have walked > >>> away from have been due to the overly narrow scope, where I felt it > >>> was necessary to be far more ambitious to achieve modest > >>> satisfaction, an ambition which included achieving the wider scope > >>> within the norms established. Similar issues pertain to my > >>> peripheral engagement with academia. Twenty years ago, after > >>> completing a masters in cognitive > >> science > >>> (a good year), I decided against pursuing any further formal > >>> education > >> with > >>> any immediacy due to my sense that what I was encountering in the > >>> subject (and related subjects) was fundamentally wrong or > >>> inadequate, but I couldn't quite discern what that was. So, for me, > >>> I had no interest in furthering the academic course at the time, > >>> because I was concerned with understanding, doing, discovering and > >>> development, not being a "good researcher". I was and am > >>> uninterested in the trappings of academia, what it looks like from > >>> the outside (with dubious ethics of promoting those in society who > >>> least need it) -- hence I am not too bothered about where the > >>> experiences come from. After all, if you want sound knowledge then > >>> it should be validated in places where it counts (in action), not in > an echo chamber of words. > >>> > >>>> From my (developmental) perspective academia appears to be > >>>> chockfull of > >>> unproductive thinking. The lack of systems understanding in the > >>> social sciences (which has been pointed out by key persons for two > >>> generations) > >> I > >>> find to be quite incredible. This, as far as I can see, is the > >>> panacea to the stasis and lethargy that I have seen in certain > >>> institutions, where there are people in secure jobs with no interest > >>> in revitalising an institution (perhaps the same people who rely > >>> upon their status for authority). In the UK, in the social sciences, > >>> the whole social science infrastructure is built upon a notion of > >>> quality that is ignorant of systems -- that is the degree to which > >>> unproductive thinking has > >> penetrated > >>> social science. > >>> > >>> Yet there is much more to it still. Recently I have also come to a > >>> surprising awareness that developmental prerogatives have rather a > >>> significant amount in common with spiritual ones. So I would offer > >> broader > >>> advice than Michael's of staying clear of hardship. It may be that > >>> in > >> that > >>> "nadir" something surprising may be discovered. For anyone with a > >>> passion "job security" is not a goal, at best it is a means to an > >>> ends, at worst > >> it > >>> is an obstacle. > >>> > >>> Over and out. :) > >>> > >>> Best, > >>> Huw > >>> > >>> On 20 February 2018 at 07:12, Alfredo Jornet Gil > >>> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Huw, Helena, and all, > >>>> > >>>> thanks to you both for taking the discussion where I was hoping it > >>>> to > >> go > >>>> further: first, towards a reflection on the nature of training > >>>> academic scholars go through as it concerns the classical problem > >>>> of learning "transfer"; and then, as it regards the question of > >>>> academic freedom > >>> (which > >>>> actually may be the same question, just taken in a language more > >> adequate > >>>> to an ecological understanding of the problem). This is absolutely > >>>> not > >>> just > >>>> an individual problem. And, on that matter, I should be clear that > >>>> I > >> am a > >>>> privileged in a privileged land, where, despite all uncertainty > >>>> and > >> pains > >>>> that my family have gone and go through, I have today a good > >>>> background > >>> and > >>>> network, and probably better prospects than the majority of junior > >>> scholars > >>>> out there. Not that I have earned this privilege for nothing: my > >> migrant > >>>> history and that of my family is all connected to an effort and > >>>> quest > >> to > >>>> get better chances of academic opportunity in this market Helena > >>>> talks about. But my personal story, as that of the historian in > >>>> the article shared or of my French astronomer friend, are relevant > >>>> in as far as > >> they > >>>> help us reflect on just those questions. They really also make one > >> wonder > >>>> on the sense of the term "academic freedom", for the latter term > >>>> cannot > >>> be > >>>> about doing whatever research you want to do independently of some > >> market > >>>> conditions and societal needs and economy. We may then pose the > >>> questions, > >>>> what type of "freedom" is the "freedom" current systems (of > >>>> incentives, > >>> of > >>>> ISI lists) afford, and what type of system could allow for another > >>> meaning > >>>> of the term "freedom"? > >>>> > >>>> Not to get too abstract, I guess that those reflections may be > >>>> best pondered along concrete cases, if people is willing to take > >>>> on Helena's suggestion to share particular stories of all that > >>>> goes into getting > >> into > >>>> secured academic job positions, or else, of pursuing (in)dependent > >>> careers > >>>> outside/at the borders of/across academia. > >>>> > >>>> Alfredo > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ________________________________________ > >>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >>>> >>> > >>>> on behalf of Helena Worthen > >>>> Sent: 19 February 2018 19:19 > >>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > >>>> > >>>> In the interests of widening the discussion: > >>>> > >>>> I?ve described my work history before on this list ? basically, > >>>> moving from teaching literature and writing (with stopovers in > >>>> landscape architecture and theater production) to concern about > >>>> the working conditions of teachers, especially academics in higher > >>>> education, the > >> 75% > >>>> who are contingent/adjuncts. The concern is both for the people > >> employed > >>>> this way and for the integrity of the institutions that employ > >>>> them. I eventually engaged this concern by working with and for > >>>> the labor > >>> movement, > >>>> ending up first working for the garment/apparel workers union in > >>>> Philadelphia and then at the Labor Educaiton Program at the U of > >>> Illinois, > >>>> from which I retired in 2010. > >>>> > >>>> The new twist to this story is about the employment of academics > >>>> on short-term contracts in Viet Nam, under conditions that seem to > >>>> be increasingly frequent in the ?developing? world, where the > >>>> market for education is booming. University World News http://www. > >>>> universityworldnews.com/ tracks this phenomenon and includes > >> occasinal > >>>> critical articles about the competition for rankings. The > >>>> university > >>> where > >>>> my husband and I have been teaching on and off since 2015, Ton Duc > >> Thang > >>> in > >>>> Ho Chi Minh City, recruits professors from all over the world with > >>>> a promise of $2,000 per month US ? but extending their contracts > >>>> depends > >> on > >>>> producing articles published in journals on the ISI list; the > >>>> nature of this list is worth taking a look at. The impact of this > >>>> practice on the culture and student body is not all bad. > >>>> > >>>> My point here is to place the issue of the challenge of getting a > >>>> tenure-track job in a global context. This is not just an > >>>> individual problem. > >>>> > >>>> I?m willing to go further down this line of discussion. However, > >>> academics > >>>> are often reluctant to reveal and compare their working conditions > >>>> on > >> an > >>>> ?academic? discussion list. Maybe by putting up the issue of what > >>> academic > >>>> freedom requires, and how these requirements fare in the global > >>>> market > >>> for > >>>> higher education, we can shed the embarassment of revealing > >>>> information about our own experiences with getting the brass ring > >>>> of a full-time, secure job. > >>>> > >>>> Let?s see if anyone picks up on this. Maybe I?m being too vague. > >>>> > >>>> Helena Worthen > >>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com > >>>> Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 > >>>> Blog US/ Viet Nam: > >>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com > >>>> skype: helena.worthen1 > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> On Feb 19, 2018, at 9:19 AM, Huw Lloyd > >>>>> > >>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> The article describes accumulating large amounts of knowledge > >>> pertaining > >>>> to > >>>>> history, which (the author maintains) cannot be turned to other > >>>> endeavours. > >>>>> This, no doubt, is true for her. If, however, her approach to > >> studying > >>>>> history had been systemic, then there would have been a powerful > >>>>> form > >>> of > >>>>> re-application and continuity in any work that was turned to. > >>>>> Perhaps > >>> the > >>>>> same can be said for "phd/postdoc training". If it cannot be > >>>>> reused > >> or > >>>>> isn't enabling, what, substantively, is it? > >>>>> > >>>>> Best, > >>>>> Huw > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On 18 February 2018 at 18:32, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > >> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Really inspiring words and work, Francine. I do see community > >> colleges > >>>> and > >>>>>> many other educational settings apart from universities as > >>>>>> really > >>>> valuable > >>>>>> and exciting opportunities; the PhD and following postdoc etc > >> training > >>>> in > >>>>>> universities, however, tend to be very much targeted towards a > >>>>>> very > >>>> narrow > >>>>>> spectrum of positions, or at least that's been my experience. I > >>>>>> am > >>> very > >>>>>> happy that this thread may widen that scope and make visible > >>>>>> other > >>>> paths. > >>>>>> And as Mike suggested, it would be very interesting to hear > >>>>>> from > >>> several > >>>>>> others who have followed distinct trajectories apart from the > >>>>>> phd-postdoc-assist/assoc. prof-prof, and yet made a career in > >>>>>> touch > >>> with > >>>>>> most of what was developed in the junior (phd and few later) years. > >>>>>> Thanks! > >>>>>> Alfredo > >>>>>> ________________________________________ > >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>> edu> > >>>>>> on behalf of Larry Smolucha > >>>>>> Sent: 18 February 2018 06:20 > >>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Message from Francine Smolucha on a scholar's life with or > >>>>>> without > >>>> academia > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Alfredo, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> There are other jobs that pay well (sometimes with tenure and > >>>>>> early retirement benefits) - besides professorships at four > >>>>>> year colleges > >>> and > >>>>>> universities. Administrative and support staff positions pay well. > >>> And > >>>>>> don't overlook community colleges, technical colleges, and > >>>>>> public > >>> grade > >>>>>> schools and high schools. There is also the private sector and > >>>> government > >>>>>> jobs. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> As a 'low status' community college professor, I managed to > >> translate > >>>>>> Vygotsky's > >>>>>> > >>>>>> overlooked writings on creativity (back in the 1980's) and > >> introduced > >>>> his > >>>>>> theory of creativity to academia. I got early retirement at > >>>>>> age 53 > >>> and > >>>>>> continue to write and publish. While my Ph.D from the > >>>>>> University of > >>>> Chicago > >>>>>> gave me academic bona fides, it was the quality of the > >>>>>> scholarly > >> work > >>>> that > >>>>>> ultimately mattered. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I was always inspired by the harsh circumstances of Vygotsky's > >>>>>> life > >>> and > >>>>>> how he still kept on writing. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> [When I felt really sorry for myself, I would actually say > >>>>>> "Well at > >>>> least > >>>>>> I am not coughing up blood"] > >>>>>> > >>>>>> So many of his works were not published in his lifetime, he did not > >>>>>> collect a royalties check, and they say he was depressed at the > >> end > >>>> of > >>>>>> his life. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I leave you with this quote from an ancient Sufi mystic - > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> You can't always get what you want but you can get what you > >>>>>> need > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> . > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> ________________________________ > >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>> edu> > >>>>>> on behalf of mike cole > >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:07 PM > >>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Yours is a quandary shared by your generation, Alfredo. > >>>>>> Being allowed to teach and conduct research in a quality > >>>>>> institution > >>> is > >>>> a > >>>>>> great privilege and an > >>>>>> increasingly rarer possibility. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> There are several people on this list who have organized their > >>>>>> lives > >>> to > >>>> be > >>>>>> independent scholars > >>>>>> while staying connected to the core institutions of > >>>>>> disciplinary > >>>> training. > >>>>>> It might be nice to hear > >>>>>> the variety out there. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> It appears pretty certain that the situation is going to get > >>>>>> worse before/if it gets better. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> What can the collective experience of xmca come up with that > >>>>>> would > >> be > >>>>>> useful to the many > >>>>>> of you caught in this meat grinder? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> mike > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > >>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Good luck then, Wagner! > >>>>>>> A > >>>>>>> ________________________________________ > >>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >> >>> edu > >>>>> > >>>>>>> on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit > >>>>>>> Sent: 18 February 2018 01:07 > >>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity > >>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> This just hit me in the spot... > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Wagner > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2018 9:48 PM, "Alfredo Jornet Gil" > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> I have not been able to contribute to this list as much as > >>>>>>>> I'd > >> like > >>> to > >>>>>>>> lately, among other things, because I need to find a job, and > >>>>>>>> I > >> need > >>>> to > >>>>>>>> make sure that I have checked all those boxes that selection > >>>> committees > >>>>>>>> will check (enough first-authored publications? in good > >>>>>>>> enough > >>>>>> journals? > >>>>>>>> enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? > >>>>>>>> acquiring > >>> funds? > >>>>>>> more > >>>>>>>> than all others candidates? and more than > >>> favoured-for-whatever-other- > >>>>>>> reasons > >>>>>>>> candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these weeks to > >>>>>>>> fill > >> up > >>> a > >>>>>>>> competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> And, although I did not think that it was particularly well > >> written, > >>>> it > >>>>>>>> was both relieving and discouraging to read this article (see > >>>>>>>> link > >>>>>> below, > >>>>>>>> which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague who I > >>>>>>>> think > >> also > >>>>>>>> subscribes this list). The article makes visible the pain > >>>>>>>> scholars > >>> go > >>>>>>>> through when, after so many years of digging and digging and > >>> digging a > >>>>>>>> little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to leave it and > >>>>>>>> find > >>> some > >>>>>>> other > >>>>>>>> thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer who was > >>>>>>>> moving > >>>>>> through > >>>>>>>> the world with his lovely family, short-term project after > >>> short-term > >>>>>>>> project, getting better and better at what he worked on > >> (apparently > >>> he > >>>>>>> was > >>>>>>>> among the few who had expertise in computer modeling > >>>>>>>> simulating > >> some > >>>>>>>> astronomic events) , and finally having to step out academia > >>>>>>>> last > >>> year > >>>>>> to > >>>>>>>> find something else to do, for his family no longer could > >>>>>>>> stand > >> the > >>>>>>>> constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be me soon. And > >>>>>>>> that > >>> may > >>>>>>> not > >>>>>>>> be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the story > >>>>>>>> seems to > >> be > >>>>>>> quite > >>>>>>>> endemic to academia and may be interesting to some of you: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Loses-When/24 > >>>>>>>> 2560 > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Alfredo > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > >> Assistant Professor > >> Department of Anthropology > >> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > >> Brigham Young University > >> Provo, UT 84602 > >> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu > >> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > >> > > > > > > -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson From huw.softdesigns@gmail.com Mon Feb 26 07:09:19 2018 From: huw.softdesigns@gmail.com (Huw Lloyd) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2018 15:09:19 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In-Reply-To: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AD5D49@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> <1518914964416.39650@iped.uio.no> <1518978734957.93647@iped.uio.no> <87FCF1E0-1B28-4F92-A85C-9E5A10424B74@gmail.com> <1519110745104.46827@iped.uio.no> <1519598399026.36406@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AD5C72@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AD5D10@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AD5D49@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> Message-ID: There is nothing about knowledge that says it must be simple, if that is what you asking for Michael. One could equally say that century old truths are re-discovered through particular processes. Some people will not look at a text book that is more than twenty years old due to its apparent out-datedness, so people present things according to current fashions. The point, contingent upon distinguishing effectiveness, is the asymmetry of social science and STEM and how effective applied social science knowledge is obtained: It (knowledge of systems integration) probably can be considered relatively advanced knowledge, yet it can be reached tractably through technical problem solving (how the knowledge is rediscovered and recognised as appropriate). How one would come to an awareness of integration issues without STEM practice (graduating on to systems knowledge) is a different matter, probably only vaguely and ineffectively. (Does social science inculcate skills in effective organisational work? Where do social science practitioners who bring about effective organisation obtain their knowledge?) Hence the basis for knowledge is not necessarily different between social science and STEM, rather there is a difference in focus, with the asymmetry being derived from their different foci and what is required to be effective. If one considers that the value of social science is in realisation of effective organisation, then it follows that this necessarily requires relatively advanced practices to achieve effective results. (Hence, again, there is the problem of how this knowledge is acquired.) Bye for now. Best, Huw On 26 February 2018 at 14:21, Glassman, Michael wrote: > By the way, the fact that Russ Ackoff doesn't seem to realize this is a > century old debate fought by some of the most influential educators in > history sort of makes the point about the dangers of STEM education and how > it limits us. > > Michael > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Huw Lloyd > Sent: Monday, February 26, 2018 8:57 AM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > Perhaps this will help: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzS5V5-0VsA > > I'm not sure I'd use Ackoff's terms (wisdom), yet the meaning is > appropriate. The word play he uses also potential obscures the genetic > basis for the distinctions. I suppose he is endeavouring to provide pithy > expressions to summarise more complex processes. > > Best, > Huw > > On 26 February 2018 at 13:32, Glassman, Michael > wrote: > > > Hi Huw, > > > > Thanks for the response. I'm not really sure I'm understanding what > > you are trying to say. I was going to say what I think, but I'm not > > sure I have enough of a grasp of your point for it to be effective. > > > > Michael > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Huw Lloyd > > Sent: Monday, February 26, 2018 5:28 AM > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > Hi Michael, > > > > The issue can be explored in terms of effectiveness. Superficial > > approaches may succeed (technologically) yet inevitably create messes > > through a lack of awareness of integration issues. Knowing how to > > design well entails much improvement in this awareness, with the > > broader (rarely > > touched) reaches of design encompassing the developmental and > > ecological requirements of the practitioners, users, resources, > pollution etc . > > Operationally, however, one can be deemed useful without awareness of > > this, and the majority of "technological" work is undertaken in > > ignorance of integration issues. > > Instead efficiency becomes a priority which is reinforced through > > bureaucratic procedures. Really, one would probably lose the majority > > of technologically focused workers in a technical discussion of > > developmental design. It probably can be considered relatively > > advanced knowledge, yet it can be reached tractably through technical > > problem solving. How one would come to an awareness of integration > > issues without STEM practice (graduating on to systems knowledge) is a > > different matter, probably only vaguely and ineffectively. Hence the > > basis for knowledge is not necessarily different between social > > science and STEM, rather there is a difference in focus, with the > > asymmetry being derived from their different foci and what is required > > to be effective. If one considers that the value of social science is > > in realisation of effective organisation, then it follows that this > > necessarily requires relatively advanced practices to achieve effective > results. > > > > Best, > > Huw > > > > On 26 February 2018 at 01:15, Glassman, Michael > > wrote: > > > > > Hi Huw, > > > > > > Perhaps the opposite is also true though. STEM researchers can > > > better understand what they are doing if they are well versed in the > > > social sciences. Understand the history and the meaning of what they > > > are doing so they do not act as androids (sorry, been watching the > > > Aliens trilogy of late). Perhaps we made the wrong calculation. We > > > have lost control of our great STEM innovations because the people > > > using them don't understand the social webs that they create. So we > > > have people pushing xMOOCs (whatever happened to MOOCs anyway) as > > > saving education (and also a bundle so everybody gets tax cuts, > > > wheeee!), saying that they are good because they can reach many, the > > > proverbial long tail, with great education (Harvard, Stanford). Yet > > > nobody asks the question, "Why is this a good thing." There really > > > isn't much supporting this in earlier distance education. There is > > > actually more evidence of how dangerous it is (Participatory Action > Research). > > > > > > Michael > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Huw Lloyd > > > Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2018 7:32 PM > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > > > I would ask, what makes you think you have an ecology (or niche)? It > > > seems that the notion of topologically derived ecologies is still > > > bandied about since Bronfenbrenner (1977), though I do not know > > > whether he managed to refine (overhaul and improve) his notions into > > > something integrated and agent-centric. One does not provide an > > > ecology or an environment. The environment is different for > > > everyone, a simple consideration of a rock-face or climbing wall is > > > sufficient to grasp this -- the so called environment (the rock > > > face) is different to each climber, their environment is that which > > > is appropriate to them which includes contexts well beyond what is > > > established in an institution. From what I can gauge, historically, > > slack was deliberately introduced into courses to afford personal > enquiry. > > > There was the basic work and then there was the genuine enquiry. Who > > > in their right mind wants to write an exam essay on a question they > > > are expected to pre-write and repeat by memory? Why would someone > > > who enjoys thinking about their subject want to go through that kind > > > of impoverished tedium? These systems are obviously geared for > "delivery". > > > > > > Perhaps the biggest cultural shift can be achieved through > > > instituting joint and personal enquiry. A teacher that stands before > > > their class and delivers their subject inevitably obscures and > > > obstructs the process of enquiry, although many students will have > > > learnt from a young age that this is what to expect and demand. > > > Engagement with genuine problems rather than what students are > > > expected to do is the basic orientational issue. Dispose of grades, > > > then anyone who isn't > > interested is free to go home. > > > > > > The advance of STEM research is probably a good thing for social > science. > > > For productive work, social science must understand the structure of > > > STEM based work, in addition to bureaucratic processes and > > > circumstances for creative work. Sticking one's head in the sand > > > over STEM-like research serves merely to perpetuate the impoverished > > > side of social science. It reminds me of the scene in Pirsig's Zen > > > and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance in which a couple lack the > > > wherewithal to fix a dripping faucet that gives them grief and > > > instead choose to ignore it. Though it was a very long time ago, > > > Pirsig's book may have contributed to my understanding of quality > > > and might be thought of as an exploration of some social issues > > > pertaining to technical enterprises. Another good text to appreciate > > > quality more directly, probably outside the formal area of STEM, is > > > Alshuller's Innovation > > Algorithm. > > > > > > Warm regards to you Henry, Greg, Alfredo. > > > > > > Best, > > > Huw > > > > > > On 25 February 2018 at 22:39, Alfredo Jornet Gil > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Greg, Huw, and others, I do often get worried that in the formals > > > > and informal meetings at our department (department of education), > > > > conversations tend to focus on the "micro" developments that you > > > > mention (students, grades, getting a next grant, getting that > > > > paper published, making sure you've got enough) most of the time, > > > > and not so much on what society we would like to have, and how our > > > > institution could/should contribute to that. I do not have any > > > > suggestions on the type of studies that you ask about?dealing with > > > > how ecologies of scholarship in academia lead to given > > > > developmental dynamics?other than the classical studies in STS, > > > > like Latour & Woolgar's on laboratory life, or S. L. Star's. But > > > > when I look forward at what lies between me (or anyone in my > > > > institution) and a change in the way this institution has impact > > > > in the life of many, what I see is lots of routines, habits, > > > > documents, and paperwork entangled in the middle, such that the > > > > idea "mediation all the way through" makes all the sense. And > > > > seeing things that way (from the ecological perspective), makes > > > > the possibility of changing things to look actually feasible, or > more accurately perhaps, imagine-able. > > > > I'd like to continue being part of the ecology to be able to be > > > > also be part of its changing it. I hope others will bring more > > > > specific literature to bear. I am already > > > downloading some of Peter Sloterdijk's to read. > > > > > > > > Alfredo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________ > > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > on behalf of Greg Thompson > > > > > > > > Sent: 24 February 2018 17:45 > > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > > > > > I appreciate Huw's concern about academia and the push to orient > > > > to a broader and more systemic concern with "development". I think > > > > that this is what institutions of higher education are supposed to > > > > have, right? - at the very least a concern for the development of > > > > individual "students", but also, one would hope, a concern for > > > > "development" at a longer timescale (e.g., how to be a better > > > > society, > > a better world). > > > > They certainly tout these in their promo materials. > > > > > > > > And yet, in practice, these institutions often fall back on > > > > bureaucratic or economic logics. Bureaucratic logic goes something > > > > like, "just publish (in "good" (i.e., high impact factor) > > > > journals), who cares what you publish so long as we can count it > > > > to determine its > > > (and your) 'value'(!)". > > > > > > > > As for the economic logic, I was just talking with Rick Shweder > > > > the other day about this issue and he expressed the concern about > > > > the push towards STEM education at the expense of all else and the > > > > way that STEM buildings are slowly starting to take over his > > > > campus (the University of Chicago - a place that was long held to > > > > be a hold out of liberal arts education - apparently they now have > > > > an engineering program). He suggested that this is tied to an > > > > early 80's court decision that gave universities ownership of > > > > patents developed on their > > > campuses. > > > > > > > > To my mind, this calls to mind a concern with ecologies of > > > > development (across the shorter and longer timescales). What are > > > > the ecologies (social, economic, political, etc.) within which > > > > development (at these various > > > > timescales) occurs in our world today? This is really a question > > > > of what is possible and/or what is likely with regard to becoming. > > > > What are the forms of life and forms of development that are > > > > sustainable given the larger ecologies in which that development > happens? > > > > > > > > And for thinking through that problem, I've had a hard time > > > > thinking of anyone who has better thought through this problem > > > > than Marx - at the longer timescale of development, that is > > > > (Vygotsky would, of course, be better at thinking through > > > > development at the shorter timescale of ontogeny). > > > > > > > > I'd love to hear others' thoughts on those who have studied > > > > activities that can begin to shed light on these ecologies of > > > > development (particularly at the longer timescale). Any > > > > thoughts/suggestions? I would imagine this work considering > > > > various kinds of institutions that run the gamut - from venture > > > > capitalist firms to non-profits to governmental institutions to > > > > institutions of higher education. I would presume that each of > > > > these kinds of institutions would have a local ecology within > > > > which they work, but I am tempted to imagine some kind of global > > > > meta-ecology (perhaps Marx's "global > > > > capitalism"?) within which each of these local ecologies operates. > > > > I'd be curious about actual research that has been done > > > > documenting the nature of these ecologies - e.g., what kinds of > > > > resources are available to be exploited? What kinds of > > > > possibilities are there for different forms of life? What > institutional organisms can thrive? > > > > Which are dying off? (and just to be clear, I am intending a > > > > biological/evolutionary nature of the metaphor). > > > > > > > > It seems that this kind of work would be most likely to have been > > > > done by folks in the CHAT world, but perhaps the scale (of time > > > > and > > > > space) is a bit beyond the scales that CHAT folks prefer to consider? > > > > > > > > (I should add that I've recently discovered the work of Peter > > > > Sloterdijk's Bubbles trilogy and am curious if anyone has any > > > > thoughts on the value of his approach - it seems to fit very well > > > > with Marx and with CHAT/Vygotsky, my only initial concern was that > > > > he seems to fly a little fast and loose with pyschoanalytics at > > > > times - not a serious problem, but perhaps in a few places). > > > > > > > > Sympathetically, > > > > greg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 1:57 PM, Huw Lloyd > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Well, I would say there is more to it than simply > > > > > transfer-ability, which might be thought of as a good > > > > > bureaucratic requirement. Really what is required is genuine > > > > > development -- reorganisation of thought and > > > > learning. > > > > > That is what is significant at a personal level, which is also > > > > > the basis > > > > of > > > > > insights and creative work (i.e. personal knowledge rather than > > > > > second > > > > hand > > > > > knowledge). The researcher in the blog article does not evince > > > > > this (with allusions to the nature of her training). There is > > > > > the history school children learn, which largely concerns the > > > > > use of memory, and then there > > > > is > > > > > the history of conditions, relations and processes, which > > > > > concerns protracted thought. This developmental emphasis is what > > > > > is lacking in institutions which is why I have frequently pointed > it out. > > > > > > > > > > This principle apples to "secure" jobs too. The jobs I have > > > > > walked away from have been due to the overly narrow scope, where > > > > > I felt it was necessary to be far more ambitious to achieve > > > > > modest satisfaction, an ambition which included achieving the > > > > > wider scope within the norms established. Similar issues pertain > > > > > to my peripheral engagement with academia. Twenty years ago, > > > > > after completing a masters in cognitive > > > > science > > > > > (a good year), I decided against pursuing any further formal > > > > > education > > > > with > > > > > any immediacy due to my sense that what I was encountering in > > > > > the subject (and related subjects) was fundamentally wrong or > > > > > inadequate, but I couldn't quite discern what that was. So, for > > > > > me, I had no interest in furthering the academic course at the > > > > > time, because I was concerned with understanding, doing, > > > > > discovering and development, not being a "good researcher". I > > > > > was and am uninterested in the trappings of academia, what it > > > > > looks like from the outside (with dubious ethics of promoting > > > > > those in society who least need it) -- hence I am not too > > > > > bothered about where the experiences come from. After all, if > > > > > you want sound knowledge then it should be validated in places > > > > > where it counts (in action), not in > > > an echo chamber of words. > > > > > > > > > > >From my (developmental) perspective academia appears to be > > > > > >chockfull of > > > > > unproductive thinking. The lack of systems understanding in the > > > > > social sciences (which has been pointed out by key persons for > > > > > two > > > > > generations) > > > > I > > > > > find to be quite incredible. This, as far as I can see, is the > > > > > panacea to the stasis and lethargy that I have seen in certain > > > > > institutions, where there are people in secure jobs with no > > > > > interest in revitalising an institution (perhaps the same people > > > > > who rely upon their status for authority). In the UK, in the > > > > > social sciences, the whole social science infrastructure is > > > > > built upon a notion of quality that is ignorant of systems -- > > > > > that is the degree to which unproductive thinking has > > > > penetrated > > > > > social science. > > > > > > > > > > Yet there is much more to it still. Recently I have also come to > > > > > a surprising awareness that developmental prerogatives have > > > > > rather a significant amount in common with spiritual ones. So I > > > > > would offer > > > > broader > > > > > advice than Michael's of staying clear of hardship. It may be > > > > > that in > > > > that > > > > > "nadir" something surprising may be discovered. For anyone with > > > > > a passion "job security" is not a goal, at best it is a means to > > > > > an ends, at worst > > > > it > > > > > is an obstacle. > > > > > > > > > > Over and out. :) > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > Huw > > > > > > > > > > On 20 February 2018 at 07:12, Alfredo Jornet Gil > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Huw, Helena, and all, > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks to you both for taking the discussion where I was > > > > > > hoping it to > > > > go > > > > > > further: first, towards a reflection on the nature of training > > > > > > academic scholars go through as it concerns the classical > > > > > > problem of learning "transfer"; and then, as it regards the > > > > > > question of academic freedom > > > > > (which > > > > > > actually may be the same question, just taken in a language > > > > > > more > > > > adequate > > > > > > to an ecological understanding of the problem). This is > > > > > > absolutely not > > > > > just > > > > > > an individual problem. And, on that matter, I should be clear > > > > > > that I > > > > am a > > > > > > privileged in a privileged land, where, despite all > > > > > > uncertainty and > > > > pains > > > > > > that my family have gone and go through, I have today a good > > > > > > background > > > > > and > > > > > > network, and probably better prospects than the majority of > > > > > > junior > > > > > scholars > > > > > > out there. Not that I have earned this privilege for nothing: > > > > > > my > > > > migrant > > > > > > history and that of my family is all connected to an effort > > > > > > and quest > > > > to > > > > > > get better chances of academic opportunity in this market > > > > > > Helena talks about. But my personal story, as that of the > > > > > > historian in the article shared or of my French astronomer > > > > > > friend, are relevant in as far as > > > > they > > > > > > help us reflect on just those questions. They really also make > > > > > > one > > > > wonder > > > > > > on the sense of the term "academic freedom", for the latter > > > > > > term cannot > > > > > be > > > > > > about doing whatever research you want to do independently of > > > > > > some > > > > market > > > > > > conditions and societal needs and economy. We may then pose > > > > > > the > > > > > questions, > > > > > > what type of "freedom" is the "freedom" current systems (of > > > > > > incentives, > > > > > of > > > > > > ISI lists) afford, and what type of system could allow for > > > > > > another > > > > > meaning > > > > > > of the term "freedom"? > > > > > > > > > > > > Not to get too abstract, I guess that those reflections may be > > > > > > best pondered along concrete cases, if people is willing to > > > > > > take on Helena's suggestion to share particular stories of all > > > > > > that goes into getting > > > > into > > > > > > secured academic job positions, or else, of pursuing > > > > > > (in)dependent > > > > > careers > > > > > > outside/at the borders of/across academia. > > > > > > > > > > > > Alfredo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________ > > > > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > on behalf of Helena Worthen > > > > > > Sent: 19 February 2018 19:19 > > > > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > > > > > > > > > In the interests of widening the discussion: > > > > > > > > > > > > I?ve described my work history before on this list ? > > > > > > basically, moving from teaching literature and writing (with > > > > > > stopovers in landscape architecture and theater production) to > > > > > > concern about the working conditions of teachers, especially > > > > > > academics in higher education, the > > > > 75% > > > > > > who are contingent/adjuncts. The concern is both for the > > > > > > people > > > > employed > > > > > > this way and for the integrity of the institutions that employ > > > > > > them. I eventually engaged this concern by working with and > > > > > > for the labor > > > > > movement, > > > > > > ending up first working for the garment/apparel workers union > > > > > > in Philadelphia and then at the Labor Educaiton Program at the > > > > > > U of > > > > > Illinois, > > > > > > from which I retired in 2010. > > > > > > > > > > > > The new twist to this story is about the employment of > > > > > > academics on short-term contracts in Viet Nam, under > > > > > > conditions that seem to be increasingly frequent in the > > > > > > ?developing? world, where the market for education is booming. > University World News http://www. > > > > > > universityworldnews.com/ tracks this phenomenon and includes > > > > occasinal > > > > > > critical articles about the competition for rankings. The > > > > > > university > > > > > where > > > > > > my husband and I have been teaching on and off since 2015, Ton > > > > > > Duc > > > > Thang > > > > > in > > > > > > Ho Chi Minh City, recruits professors from all over the world > > > > > > with a promise of $2,000 per month US ? but extending their > > > > > > contracts depends > > > > on > > > > > > producing articles published in journals on the ISI list; the > > > > > > nature of this list is worth taking a look at. The impact of > > > > > > this practice on the culture and student body is not all bad. > > > > > > > > > > > > My point here is to place the issue of the challenge of > > > > > > getting a tenure-track job in a global context. This is not > > > > > > just an individual problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > I?m willing to go further down this line of discussion. > > > > > > However, > > > > > academics > > > > > > are often reluctant to reveal and compare their working > > > > > > conditions on > > > > an > > > > > > ?academic? discussion list. Maybe by putting up the issue of > > > > > > what > > > > > academic > > > > > > freedom requires, and how these requirements fare in the > > > > > > global market > > > > > for > > > > > > higher education, we can shed the embarassment of revealing > > > > > > information about our own experiences with getting the brass > > > > > > ring of a full-time, secure job. > > > > > > > > > > > > Let?s see if anyone picks up on this. Maybe I?m being too vague. > > > > > > > > > > > > Helena Worthen > > > > > > helenaworthen@gmail.com > > > > > > Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 Blog US/ Viet Nam: > > > > > > helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > > > > > skype: helena.worthen1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 19, 2018, at 9:19 AM, Huw Lloyd > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The article describes accumulating large amounts of knowledge > > > > > pertaining > > > > > > to > > > > > > > history, which (the author maintains) cannot be turned to > > > > > > > other > > > > > > endeavours. > > > > > > > This, no doubt, is true for her. If, however, her approach to > > > > studying > > > > > > > history had been systemic, then there would have been a > > > > > > > powerful form > > > > > of > > > > > > > re-application and continuity in any work that was turned to. > > > > > > > Perhaps > > > > > the > > > > > > > same can be said for "phd/postdoc training". If it cannot be > > > > > > > reused > > > > or > > > > > > > isn't enabling, what, substantively, is it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > > Huw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 18 February 2018 at 18:32, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > > > > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Really inspiring words and work, Francine. I do see community > > > > colleges > > > > > > and > > > > > > >> many other educational settings apart from universities as > > > > > > >> really > > > > > > valuable > > > > > > >> and exciting opportunities; the PhD and following postdoc etc > > > > training > > > > > > in > > > > > > >> universities, however, tend to be very much targeted towards > > > > > > >> a very > > > > > > narrow > > > > > > >> spectrum of positions, or at least that's been my experience. > > > > > > >> I am > > > > > very > > > > > > >> happy that this thread may widen that scope and make visible > > > > > > >> other > > > > > > paths. > > > > > > >> And as Mike suggested, it would be very interesting to hear > > > > > > >> from > > > > > several > > > > > > >> others who have followed distinct trajectories apart from the > > > > > > >> phd-postdoc-assist/assoc. prof-prof, and yet made a career in > > > > > > >> touch > > > > > with > > > > > > >> most of what was developed in the junior (phd and few later) > > > years. > > > > > > >> Thanks! > > > > > > >> Alfredo > > > > > > >> ________________________________________ > > > > > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > > > > edu> > > > > > > >> on behalf of Larry Smolucha > > > > > > >> Sent: 18 February 2018 06:20 > > > > > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > > > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Message from Francine Smolucha on a scholar's life with or > > > > > > >> without > > > > > > academia > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Alfredo, > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> There are other jobs that pay well (sometimes with tenure and > > > > > > >> early retirement benefits) - besides professorships at four > > > > > > >> year colleges > > > > > and > > > > > > >> universities. Administrative and support staff positions pay > > > well. > > > > > And > > > > > > >> don't overlook community colleges, technical colleges, and > > > > > > >> public > > > > > grade > > > > > > >> schools and high schools. There is also the private sector > > > > > > >> and > > > > > > government > > > > > > >> jobs. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> As a 'low status' community college professor, I managed to > > > > translate > > > > > > >> Vygotsky's > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> overlooked writings on creativity (back in the 1980's) and > > > > introduced > > > > > > his > > > > > > >> theory of creativity to academia. I got early retirement at > > > > > > >> age 53 > > > > > and > > > > > > >> continue to write and publish. While my Ph.D from the > > > > > > >> University of > > > > > > Chicago > > > > > > >> gave me academic bona fides, it was the quality of the > > > > > > >> scholarly > > > > work > > > > > > that > > > > > > >> ultimately mattered. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> I was always inspired by the harsh circumstances of > > > > > > >> Vygotsky's life > > > > > and > > > > > > >> how he still kept on writing. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> [When I felt really sorry for myself, I would actually say > > > > > > >> "Well at > > > > > > least > > > > > > >> I am not coughing up blood"] > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> So many of his works were not published in his lifetime, he > > > > > > >> did > > > not > > > > > > >> collect a royalties check, and they say he was depressed at > > the > > > > end > > > > > > of > > > > > > >> his life. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> I leave you with this quote from an ancient Sufi mystic - > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> You can't always get what you want but you can get what you > > > > > > >> need > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> . > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> ________________________________ > > > > > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > > > > edu> > > > > > > >> on behalf of mike cole > > > > > > >> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:07 PM > > > > > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > > > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Yours is a quandary shared by your generation, Alfredo. > > > > > > >> Being allowed to teach and conduct research in a quality > > > > > > >> institution > > > > > is > > > > > > a > > > > > > >> great privilege and an > > > > > > >> increasingly rarer possibility. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> There are several people on this list who have organized > > > > > > >> their lives > > > > > to > > > > > > be > > > > > > >> independent scholars > > > > > > >> while staying connected to the core institutions of > > > > > > >> disciplinary > > > > > > training. > > > > > > >> It might be nice to hear > > > > > > >> the variety out there. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> It appears pretty certain that the situation is going to get > > > > > > >> worse before/if it gets better. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> What can the collective experience of xmca come up with that > > > > > > >> would > > > > be > > > > > > >> useful to the many > > > > > > >> of you caught in this meat grinder? > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> mike > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > > > > > > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >>> Good luck then, Wagner! > > > > > > >>> A > > > > > > >>> ________________________________________ > > > > > > >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > > > > > edu > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit > > > > > > >>> Sent: 18 February 2018 01:07 > > > > > > >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity > > > > > > >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> This just hit me in the spot... > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> Wagner > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> On Feb 17, 2018 9:48 PM, "Alfredo Jornet Gil" > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>>> I have not been able to contribute to this list as much as > > > > > > >>>> I'd > > > > like > > > > > to > > > > > > >>>> lately, among other things, because I need to find a job, > > > > > > >>>> and I > > > > need > > > > > > to > > > > > > >>>> make sure that I have checked all those boxes that > > > > > > >>>> selection > > > > > > committees > > > > > > >>>> will check (enough first-authored publications? in good > > > > > > >>>> enough > > > > > > >> journals? > > > > > > >>>> enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? > > > > > > >>>> acquiring > > > > > funds? > > > > > > >>> more > > > > > > >>>> than all others candidates? and more than > > > > > favoured-for-whatever-other- > > > > > > >>> reasons > > > > > > >>>> candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these weeks to > > > > > > >>>> fill > > > > up > > > > > a > > > > > > >>>> competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> And, although I did not think that it was particularly well > > > > written, > > > > > > it > > > > > > >>>> was both relieving and discouraging to read this article > > > > > > >>>> (see link > > > > > > >> below, > > > > > > >>>> which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague who I > > > > > > >>>> think > > > > also > > > > > > >>>> subscribes this list). The article makes visible the pain > > > > > > >>>> scholars > > > > > go > > > > > > >>>> through when, after so many years of digging and digging > > > > > > >>>> and > > > > > digging a > > > > > > >>>> little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to leave it and > > > > > > >>>> find > > > > > some > > > > > > >>> other > > > > > > >>>> thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer who was > > > > > > >>>> moving > > > > > > >> through > > > > > > >>>> the world with his lovely family, short-term project after > > > > > short-term > > > > > > >>>> project, getting better and better at what he worked on > > > > (apparently > > > > > he > > > > > > >>> was > > > > > > >>>> among the few who had expertise in computer modeling > > > > > > >>>> simulating > > > > some > > > > > > >>>> astronomic events) , and finally having to step out > > > > > > >>>> academia last > > > > > year > > > > > > >> to > > > > > > >>>> find something else to do, for his family no longer could > > > > > > >>>> stand > > > > the > > > > > > >>>> constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be me soon. > > > > > > >>>> And that > > > > > may > > > > > > >>> not > > > > > > >>>> be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the story > > > > > > >>>> seems to > > > > be > > > > > > >>> quite > > > > > > >>>> endemic to academia and may be interesting to some of you: > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Loses-When/ > > > > > > >>>> 24 > > > > > > >>>> 2560 > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> Alfredo > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > > > > Assistant Professor > > > > Department of Anthropology > > > > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > > > > Brigham Young University > > > > Provo, UT 84602 > > > > WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu > > > > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From huw.softdesigns@gmail.com Mon Feb 26 08:40:43 2018 From: huw.softdesigns@gmail.com (Huw Lloyd) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2018 16:40:43 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In-Reply-To: References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> <1518914964416.39650@iped.uio.no> <1518978734957.93647@iped.uio.no> <87FCF1E0-1B28-4F92-A85C-9E5A10424B74@gmail.com> <1519110745104.46827@iped.uio.no> <1519598399026.36406@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AD5C72@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> Message-ID: "Assessing their abilities and accomplishments in this regard was a matter of judgment and so could not be quantified; it could be exercised only by those capable of it." I would say, "cannot be quantified simply". Best, Huw On 26 February 2018 at 15:05, Greg Thompson wrote: > And here is a nice article that speaks to the bureaucratic logic that I was > mentioning (the author refers to "the all-administrative institution"): > https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/whose-university-is-it-anyway/#! > > A quote from it: > "The revolution is over and the administrators have won. But the > persistence of traditional structures and language has led some to think > that the fight over the institution is now just beginning. This is a > mistake. As with most revolutions, open conflict occurs only after real > power has already changed hands." > > -greg > > On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 6:27 PM, Martin Packer wrote: > > > On STEM and social science: > > > > < > doctors-revolt-bernard-lown.html?action=click&pgtype= > > Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col- > > left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav= > > opinion-c-col-left-region > 02/24/opinion/sunday/doctors-revolt-bernard-lown.html? > > action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading& > > module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c-col- > > left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region>>> > > > > On measures of learning: > > > > > measure-learning-outcomes.html?action=click&pgtype= > > Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col- > > left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav= > > opinion-c-col-left-region > 02/23/opinion/sunday/colleges-measure-learning-outcomes. > > html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story- > > heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c- > > col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region>> > > > > Martin > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 25, 2018, at 8:15 PM, Glassman, Michael > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi Huw, > > > > > > Perhaps the opposite is also true though. STEM researchers can better > > understand what they are doing if they are well versed in the social > > sciences. Understand the history and the meaning of what they are doing > so > > they do not act as androids (sorry, been watching the Aliens trilogy of > > late). Perhaps we made the wrong calculation. We have lost control of our > > great STEM innovations because the people using them don't understand the > > social webs that they create. So we have people pushing xMOOCs (whatever > > happened to MOOCs anyway) as saving education (and also a bundle so > > everybody gets tax cuts, wheeee!), saying that they are good because they > > can reach many, the proverbial long tail, with great education (Harvard, > > Stanford). Yet nobody asks the question, "Why is this a good thing." > There > > really isn't much supporting this in earlier distance education. There > is > > actually more evidence of how dangerous it is (Participatory Action > > Research). > > > > > > Michael > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Huw Lloyd > > > Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2018 7:32 PM > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > > > I would ask, what makes you think you have an ecology (or niche)? It > > seems that the notion of topologically derived ecologies is still bandied > > about since Bronfenbrenner (1977), though I do not know whether he > managed > > to refine (overhaul and improve) his notions into something integrated > and > > agent-centric. One does not provide an ecology or an environment. The > > environment is different for everyone, a simple consideration of a > > rock-face or climbing wall is sufficient to grasp this -- the so called > > environment (the rock face) is different to each climber, their > environment > > is that which is appropriate to them which includes contexts well beyond > > what is established in an institution. From what I can gauge, > historically, > > slack was deliberately introduced into courses to afford personal > enquiry. > > > There was the basic work and then there was the genuine enquiry. Who in > > their right mind wants to write an exam essay on a question they are > > expected to pre-write and repeat by memory? Why would someone who enjoys > > thinking about their subject want to go through that kind of impoverished > > tedium? These systems are obviously geared for "delivery". > > > > > > Perhaps the biggest cultural shift can be achieved through instituting > > joint and personal enquiry. A teacher that stands before their class and > > delivers their subject inevitably obscures and obstructs the process of > > enquiry, although many students will have learnt from a young age that > this > > is what to expect and demand. Engagement with genuine problems rather > than > > what students are expected to do is the basic orientational issue. > Dispose > > of grades, then anyone who isn't interested is free to go home. > > > > > > The advance of STEM research is probably a good thing for social > science. > > > For productive work, social science must understand the structure of > > STEM based work, in addition to bureaucratic processes and circumstances > > for creative work. Sticking one's head in the sand over STEM-like > research > > serves merely to perpetuate the impoverished side of social science. It > > reminds me of the scene in Pirsig's Zen and the Art of Motorcycle > > Maintenance in which a couple lack the wherewithal to fix a dripping > faucet > > that gives them grief and instead choose to ignore it. Though it was a > very > > long time ago, Pirsig's book may have contributed to my understanding of > > quality and might be thought of as an exploration of some social issues > > pertaining to technical enterprises. Another good text to appreciate > > quality more directly, probably outside the formal area of STEM, is > > Alshuller's Innovation Algorithm. > > > > > > Warm regards to you Henry, Greg, Alfredo. > > > > > > Best, > > > Huw > > > > > > On 25 February 2018 at 22:39, Alfredo Jornet Gil > > > wrote: > > > > > >> Greg, Huw, and others, I do often get worried that in the formals and > > >> informal meetings at our department (department of education), > > >> conversations tend to focus on the "micro" developments that you > > >> mention (students, grades, getting a next grant, getting that paper > > >> published, making sure you've got enough) most of the time, and not so > > >> much on what society we would like to have, and how our institution > > >> could/should contribute to that. I do not have any suggestions on the > > >> type of studies that you ask about?dealing with how ecologies of > > >> scholarship in academia lead to given developmental dynamics?other > > >> than the classical studies in STS, like Latour & Woolgar's on > > >> laboratory life, or S. L. Star's. But when I look forward at what lies > > >> between me (or anyone in my institution) and a change in the way this > > >> institution has impact in the life of many, what I see is lots of > > >> routines, habits, documents, and paperwork entangled in the middle, > > >> such that the idea "mediation all the way through" makes all the > > >> sense. And seeing things that way (from the ecological perspective), > > >> makes the possibility of changing things to look actually feasible, or > > >> more accurately perhaps, imagine-able. I'd like to continue being part > > >> of the ecology to be able to be also be part of its changing it. I > > >> hope others will bring more specific literature to bear. I am already > > downloading some of Peter Sloterdijk's to read. > > >> > > >> Alfredo > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> ________________________________________ > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > >> on behalf of Greg Thompson > > >> > > >> Sent: 24 February 2018 17:45 > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > >> > > >> I appreciate Huw's concern about academia and the push to orient to a > > >> broader and more systemic concern with "development". I think that > > >> this is what institutions of higher education are supposed to have, > > >> right? - at the very least a concern for the development of individual > > >> "students", but also, one would hope, a concern for "development" at a > > >> longer timescale (e.g., how to be a better society, a better world). > > >> They certainly tout these in their promo materials. > > >> > > >> And yet, in practice, these institutions often fall back on > > >> bureaucratic or economic logics. Bureaucratic logic goes something > > >> like, "just publish (in "good" (i.e., high impact factor) journals), > > >> who cares what you publish so long as we can count it to determine its > > (and your) 'value'(!)". > > >> > > >> As for the economic logic, I was just talking with Rick Shweder the > > >> other day about this issue and he expressed the concern about the push > > >> towards STEM education at the expense of all else and the way that > > >> STEM buildings are slowly starting to take over his campus (the > > >> University of Chicago - a place that was long held to be a hold out of > > >> liberal arts education - apparently they now have an engineering > > >> program). He suggested that this is tied to an early 80's court > > >> decision that gave universities ownership of patents developed on > their > > campuses. > > >> > > >> To my mind, this calls to mind a concern with ecologies of development > > >> (across the shorter and longer timescales). What are the ecologies > > >> (social, economic, political, etc.) within which development (at these > > >> various > > >> timescales) occurs in our world today? This is really a question of > > >> what is possible and/or what is likely with regard to becoming. What > > >> are the forms of life and forms of development that are sustainable > > >> given the larger ecologies in which that development happens? > > >> > > >> And for thinking through that problem, I've had a hard time thinking > > >> of anyone who has better thought through this problem than Marx - at > > >> the longer timescale of development, that is (Vygotsky would, of > > >> course, be better at thinking through development at the shorter > > >> timescale of ontogeny). > > >> > > >> I'd love to hear others' thoughts on those who have studied activities > > >> that can begin to shed light on these ecologies of development > > >> (particularly at the longer timescale). Any thoughts/suggestions? I > > >> would imagine this work considering various kinds of institutions that > > >> run the gamut - from venture capitalist firms to non-profits to > > >> governmental institutions to institutions of higher education. I would > > >> presume that each of these kinds of institutions would have a local > > >> ecology within which they work, but I am tempted to imagine some kind > > >> of global meta-ecology (perhaps Marx's "global > > >> capitalism"?) within which each of these local ecologies operates. I'd > > >> be curious about actual research that has been done documenting the > > >> nature of these ecologies - e.g., what kinds of resources are > > >> available to be exploited? What kinds of possibilities are there for > > >> different forms of life? What institutional organisms can thrive? > > >> Which are dying off? (and just to be clear, I am intending a > > >> biological/evolutionary nature of the metaphor). > > >> > > >> It seems that this kind of work would be most likely to have been done > > >> by folks in the CHAT world, but perhaps the scale (of time and space) > > >> is a bit beyond the scales that CHAT folks prefer to consider? > > >> > > >> (I should add that I've recently discovered the work of Peter > > >> Sloterdijk's Bubbles trilogy and am curious if anyone has any thoughts > > >> on the value of his approach - it seems to fit very well with Marx and > > >> with CHAT/Vygotsky, my only initial concern was that he seems to fly a > > >> little fast and loose with pyschoanalytics at times - not a serious > > >> problem, but perhaps in a few places). > > >> > > >> Sympathetically, > > >> greg > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 1:57 PM, Huw Lloyd > > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >>> Well, I would say there is more to it than simply transfer-ability, > > >>> which might be thought of as a good bureaucratic requirement. Really > > >>> what is required is genuine development -- reorganisation of thought > > >>> and > > >> learning. > > >>> That is what is significant at a personal level, which is also the > > >>> basis > > >> of > > >>> insights and creative work (i.e. personal knowledge rather than > > >>> second > > >> hand > > >>> knowledge). The researcher in the blog article does not evince this > > >>> (with allusions to the nature of her training). There is the history > > >>> school children learn, which largely concerns the use of memory, and > > >>> then there > > >> is > > >>> the history of conditions, relations and processes, which concerns > > >>> protracted thought. This developmental emphasis is what is lacking > > >>> in institutions which is why I have frequently pointed it out. > > >>> > > >>> This principle apples to "secure" jobs too. The jobs I have walked > > >>> away from have been due to the overly narrow scope, where I felt it > > >>> was necessary to be far more ambitious to achieve modest > > >>> satisfaction, an ambition which included achieving the wider scope > > >>> within the norms established. Similar issues pertain to my > > >>> peripheral engagement with academia. Twenty years ago, after > > >>> completing a masters in cognitive > > >> science > > >>> (a good year), I decided against pursuing any further formal > > >>> education > > >> with > > >>> any immediacy due to my sense that what I was encountering in the > > >>> subject (and related subjects) was fundamentally wrong or > > >>> inadequate, but I couldn't quite discern what that was. So, for me, > > >>> I had no interest in furthering the academic course at the time, > > >>> because I was concerned with understanding, doing, discovering and > > >>> development, not being a "good researcher". I was and am > > >>> uninterested in the trappings of academia, what it looks like from > > >>> the outside (with dubious ethics of promoting those in society who > > >>> least need it) -- hence I am not too bothered about where the > > >>> experiences come from. After all, if you want sound knowledge then > > >>> it should be validated in places where it counts (in action), not in > > an echo chamber of words. > > >>> > > >>>> From my (developmental) perspective academia appears to be > > >>>> chockfull of > > >>> unproductive thinking. The lack of systems understanding in the > > >>> social sciences (which has been pointed out by key persons for two > > >>> generations) > > >> I > > >>> find to be quite incredible. This, as far as I can see, is the > > >>> panacea to the stasis and lethargy that I have seen in certain > > >>> institutions, where there are people in secure jobs with no interest > > >>> in revitalising an institution (perhaps the same people who rely > > >>> upon their status for authority). In the UK, in the social sciences, > > >>> the whole social science infrastructure is built upon a notion of > > >>> quality that is ignorant of systems -- that is the degree to which > > >>> unproductive thinking has > > >> penetrated > > >>> social science. > > >>> > > >>> Yet there is much more to it still. Recently I have also come to a > > >>> surprising awareness that developmental prerogatives have rather a > > >>> significant amount in common with spiritual ones. So I would offer > > >> broader > > >>> advice than Michael's of staying clear of hardship. It may be that > > >>> in > > >> that > > >>> "nadir" something surprising may be discovered. For anyone with a > > >>> passion "job security" is not a goal, at best it is a means to an > > >>> ends, at worst > > >> it > > >>> is an obstacle. > > >>> > > >>> Over and out. :) > > >>> > > >>> Best, > > >>> Huw > > >>> > > >>> On 20 February 2018 at 07:12, Alfredo Jornet Gil > > >>> > > >>> wrote: > > >>> > > >>>> Huw, Helena, and all, > > >>>> > > >>>> thanks to you both for taking the discussion where I was hoping it > > >>>> to > > >> go > > >>>> further: first, towards a reflection on the nature of training > > >>>> academic scholars go through as it concerns the classical problem > > >>>> of learning "transfer"; and then, as it regards the question of > > >>>> academic freedom > > >>> (which > > >>>> actually may be the same question, just taken in a language more > > >> adequate > > >>>> to an ecological understanding of the problem). This is absolutely > > >>>> not > > >>> just > > >>>> an individual problem. And, on that matter, I should be clear that > > >>>> I > > >> am a > > >>>> privileged in a privileged land, where, despite all uncertainty > > >>>> and > > >> pains > > >>>> that my family have gone and go through, I have today a good > > >>>> background > > >>> and > > >>>> network, and probably better prospects than the majority of junior > > >>> scholars > > >>>> out there. Not that I have earned this privilege for nothing: my > > >> migrant > > >>>> history and that of my family is all connected to an effort and > > >>>> quest > > >> to > > >>>> get better chances of academic opportunity in this market Helena > > >>>> talks about. But my personal story, as that of the historian in > > >>>> the article shared or of my French astronomer friend, are relevant > > >>>> in as far as > > >> they > > >>>> help us reflect on just those questions. They really also make one > > >> wonder > > >>>> on the sense of the term "academic freedom", for the latter term > > >>>> cannot > > >>> be > > >>>> about doing whatever research you want to do independently of some > > >> market > > >>>> conditions and societal needs and economy. We may then pose the > > >>> questions, > > >>>> what type of "freedom" is the "freedom" current systems (of > > >>>> incentives, > > >>> of > > >>>> ISI lists) afford, and what type of system could allow for another > > >>> meaning > > >>>> of the term "freedom"? > > >>>> > > >>>> Not to get too abstract, I guess that those reflections may be > > >>>> best pondered along concrete cases, if people is willing to take > > >>>> on Helena's suggestion to share particular stories of all that > > >>>> goes into getting > > >> into > > >>>> secured academic job positions, or else, of pursuing (in)dependent > > >>> careers > > >>>> outside/at the borders of/across academia. > > >>>> > > >>>> Alfredo > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> ________________________________________ > > >>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > >>>> > >>> > > >>>> on behalf of Helena Worthen > > >>>> Sent: 19 February 2018 19:19 > > >>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > >>>> > > >>>> In the interests of widening the discussion: > > >>>> > > >>>> I?ve described my work history before on this list ? basically, > > >>>> moving from teaching literature and writing (with stopovers in > > >>>> landscape architecture and theater production) to concern about > > >>>> the working conditions of teachers, especially academics in higher > > >>>> education, the > > >> 75% > > >>>> who are contingent/adjuncts. The concern is both for the people > > >> employed > > >>>> this way and for the integrity of the institutions that employ > > >>>> them. I eventually engaged this concern by working with and for > > >>>> the labor > > >>> movement, > > >>>> ending up first working for the garment/apparel workers union in > > >>>> Philadelphia and then at the Labor Educaiton Program at the U of > > >>> Illinois, > > >>>> from which I retired in 2010. > > >>>> > > >>>> The new twist to this story is about the employment of academics > > >>>> on short-term contracts in Viet Nam, under conditions that seem to > > >>>> be increasingly frequent in the ?developing? world, where the > > >>>> market for education is booming. University World News http://www. > > >>>> universityworldnews.com/ tracks this phenomenon and includes > > >> occasinal > > >>>> critical articles about the competition for rankings. The > > >>>> university > > >>> where > > >>>> my husband and I have been teaching on and off since 2015, Ton Duc > > >> Thang > > >>> in > > >>>> Ho Chi Minh City, recruits professors from all over the world with > > >>>> a promise of $2,000 per month US ? but extending their contracts > > >>>> depends > > >> on > > >>>> producing articles published in journals on the ISI list; the > > >>>> nature of this list is worth taking a look at. The impact of this > > >>>> practice on the culture and student body is not all bad. > > >>>> > > >>>> My point here is to place the issue of the challenge of getting a > > >>>> tenure-track job in a global context. This is not just an > > >>>> individual problem. > > >>>> > > >>>> I?m willing to go further down this line of discussion. However, > > >>> academics > > >>>> are often reluctant to reveal and compare their working conditions > > >>>> on > > >> an > > >>>> ?academic? discussion list. Maybe by putting up the issue of what > > >>> academic > > >>>> freedom requires, and how these requirements fare in the global > > >>>> market > > >>> for > > >>>> higher education, we can shed the embarassment of revealing > > >>>> information about our own experiences with getting the brass ring > > >>>> of a full-time, secure job. > > >>>> > > >>>> Let?s see if anyone picks up on this. Maybe I?m being too vague. > > >>>> > > >>>> Helena Worthen > > >>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com > > >>>> Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 > > >>>> Blog US/ Viet Nam: > > >>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > >>>> skype: helena.worthen1 > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>> On Feb 19, 2018, at 9:19 AM, Huw Lloyd > > >>>>> > > >>>> wrote: > > >>>>> > > >>>>> The article describes accumulating large amounts of knowledge > > >>> pertaining > > >>>> to > > >>>>> history, which (the author maintains) cannot be turned to other > > >>>> endeavours. > > >>>>> This, no doubt, is true for her. If, however, her approach to > > >> studying > > >>>>> history had been systemic, then there would have been a powerful > > >>>>> form > > >>> of > > >>>>> re-application and continuity in any work that was turned to. > > >>>>> Perhaps > > >>> the > > >>>>> same can be said for "phd/postdoc training". If it cannot be > > >>>>> reused > > >> or > > >>>>> isn't enabling, what, substantively, is it? > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Best, > > >>>>> Huw > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> On 18 February 2018 at 18:32, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > > >> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > > >>>>> wrote: > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> Really inspiring words and work, Francine. I do see community > > >> colleges > > >>>> and > > >>>>>> many other educational settings apart from universities as > > >>>>>> really > > >>>> valuable > > >>>>>> and exciting opportunities; the PhD and following postdoc etc > > >> training > > >>>> in > > >>>>>> universities, however, tend to be very much targeted towards a > > >>>>>> very > > >>>> narrow > > >>>>>> spectrum of positions, or at least that's been my experience. I > > >>>>>> am > > >>> very > > >>>>>> happy that this thread may widen that scope and make visible > > >>>>>> other > > >>>> paths. > > >>>>>> And as Mike suggested, it would be very interesting to hear > > >>>>>> from > > >>> several > > >>>>>> others who have followed distinct trajectories apart from the > > >>>>>> phd-postdoc-assist/assoc. prof-prof, and yet made a career in > > >>>>>> touch > > >>> with > > >>>>>> most of what was developed in the junior (phd and few later) > years. > > >>>>>> Thanks! > > >>>>>> Alfredo > > >>>>>> ________________________________________ > > >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > >>> edu> > > >>>>>> on behalf of Larry Smolucha > > >>>>>> Sent: 18 February 2018 06:20 > > >>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Message from Francine Smolucha on a scholar's life with or > > >>>>>> without > > >>>> academia > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Alfredo, > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> There are other jobs that pay well (sometimes with tenure and > > >>>>>> early retirement benefits) - besides professorships at four > > >>>>>> year colleges > > >>> and > > >>>>>> universities. Administrative and support staff positions pay > well. > > >>> And > > >>>>>> don't overlook community colleges, technical colleges, and > > >>>>>> public > > >>> grade > > >>>>>> schools and high schools. There is also the private sector and > > >>>> government > > >>>>>> jobs. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> As a 'low status' community college professor, I managed to > > >> translate > > >>>>>> Vygotsky's > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> overlooked writings on creativity (back in the 1980's) and > > >> introduced > > >>>> his > > >>>>>> theory of creativity to academia. I got early retirement at > > >>>>>> age 53 > > >>> and > > >>>>>> continue to write and publish. While my Ph.D from the > > >>>>>> University of > > >>>> Chicago > > >>>>>> gave me academic bona fides, it was the quality of the > > >>>>>> scholarly > > >> work > > >>>> that > > >>>>>> ultimately mattered. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> I was always inspired by the harsh circumstances of Vygotsky's > > >>>>>> life > > >>> and > > >>>>>> how he still kept on writing. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> [When I felt really sorry for myself, I would actually say > > >>>>>> "Well at > > >>>> least > > >>>>>> I am not coughing up blood"] > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> So many of his works were not published in his lifetime, he did > not > > >>>>>> collect a royalties check, and they say he was depressed at the > > >> end > > >>>> of > > >>>>>> his life. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> I leave you with this quote from an ancient Sufi mystic - > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> You can't always get what you want but you can get what you > > >>>>>> need > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> . > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> ________________________________ > > >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > >>> edu> > > >>>>>> on behalf of mike cole > > >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:07 PM > > >>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Yours is a quandary shared by your generation, Alfredo. > > >>>>>> Being allowed to teach and conduct research in a quality > > >>>>>> institution > > >>> is > > >>>> a > > >>>>>> great privilege and an > > >>>>>> increasingly rarer possibility. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> There are several people on this list who have organized their > > >>>>>> lives > > >>> to > > >>>> be > > >>>>>> independent scholars > > >>>>>> while staying connected to the core institutions of > > >>>>>> disciplinary > > >>>> training. > > >>>>>> It might be nice to hear > > >>>>>> the variety out there. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> It appears pretty certain that the situation is going to get > > >>>>>> worse before/if it gets better. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> What can the collective experience of xmca come up with that > > >>>>>> would > > >> be > > >>>>>> useful to the many > > >>>>>> of you caught in this meat grinder? > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> mike > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > > >>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > > >>>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Good luck then, Wagner! > > >>>>>>> A > > >>>>>>> ________________________________________ > > >>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > >> > >>> edu > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit > > >>>>>>> Sent: 18 February 2018 01:07 > > >>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity > > >>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> This just hit me in the spot... > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Wagner > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2018 9:48 PM, "Alfredo Jornet Gil" > > >>>>>>> > >>> > > >>>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> I have not been able to contribute to this list as much as > > >>>>>>>> I'd > > >> like > > >>> to > > >>>>>>>> lately, among other things, because I need to find a job, and > > >>>>>>>> I > > >> need > > >>>> to > > >>>>>>>> make sure that I have checked all those boxes that selection > > >>>> committees > > >>>>>>>> will check (enough first-authored publications? in good > > >>>>>>>> enough > > >>>>>> journals? > > >>>>>>>> enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? > > >>>>>>>> acquiring > > >>> funds? > > >>>>>>> more > > >>>>>>>> than all others candidates? and more than > > >>> favoured-for-whatever-other- > > >>>>>>> reasons > > >>>>>>>> candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these weeks to > > >>>>>>>> fill > > >> up > > >>> a > > >>>>>>>> competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> And, although I did not think that it was particularly well > > >> written, > > >>>> it > > >>>>>>>> was both relieving and discouraging to read this article (see > > >>>>>>>> link > > >>>>>> below, > > >>>>>>>> which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague who I > > >>>>>>>> think > > >> also > > >>>>>>>> subscribes this list). The article makes visible the pain > > >>>>>>>> scholars > > >>> go > > >>>>>>>> through when, after so many years of digging and digging and > > >>> digging a > > >>>>>>>> little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to leave it and > > >>>>>>>> find > > >>> some > > >>>>>>> other > > >>>>>>>> thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer who was > > >>>>>>>> moving > > >>>>>> through > > >>>>>>>> the world with his lovely family, short-term project after > > >>> short-term > > >>>>>>>> project, getting better and better at what he worked on > > >> (apparently > > >>> he > > >>>>>>> was > > >>>>>>>> among the few who had expertise in computer modeling > > >>>>>>>> simulating > > >> some > > >>>>>>>> astronomic events) , and finally having to step out academia > > >>>>>>>> last > > >>> year > > >>>>>> to > > >>>>>>>> find something else to do, for his family no longer could > > >>>>>>>> stand > > >> the > > >>>>>>>> constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be me soon. And > > >>>>>>>> that > > >>> may > > >>>>>>> not > > >>>>>>>> be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the story > > >>>>>>>> seems to > > >> be > > >>>>>>> quite > > >>>>>>>> endemic to academia and may be interesting to some of you: > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Loses-When/24 > > >>>>>>>> 2560 > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Alfredo > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > > >> Assistant Professor > > >> Department of Anthropology > > >> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > > >> Brigham Young University > > >> Provo, UT 84602 > > >> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu > > >> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > From Phillip.White@ucdenver.edu Tue Feb 27 13:58:35 2018 From: Phillip.White@ucdenver.edu (White, Phillip) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2018 21:58:35 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Fw: [QSTUDY-L] Job Ad - Associate Professor In Gender and Women's Studies at Carleton University In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: an interesting position - Phillip ________________________________ From: Qstudy-l on behalf of Dan Irving Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2018 2:36 PM To: QStudy-L Subject: [QSTUDY-L] Job Ad - Associate Professor In Gender and Women's Studies at Carleton University We are very pleased to announce a position in Gender and Women Studies at Carleton University. I have attached the job ad. Please circulate widely. best, Dan -- Dr. Dan Irving Associate Professor Coordinator of Sexuality Studies Minor Human Rights and Sexuality Studies Institute of Interdisciplinary Studies 2213 Dunton Tower Carleton University Ottawa, ON Office Phone: 613-520-2600 x. 1899 _______________________________________________ Qstudy-l mailing list Qstudy-l@mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/qstudy-l From Phillip.White@ucdenver.edu Tue Feb 27 14:44:13 2018 From: Phillip.White@ucdenver.edu (White, Phillip) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2018 22:44:13 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Fw: [QSTUDY-L] Job Ad - Associate Professor In Gender and Women's Studies at Carleton University In-Reply-To: References: <62D0B5B2-B5B5-4580-9183-6CE5A69CA2E0@umb.edu>, Message-ID: <20180227224412.5955729.53572.27505@ucdenver.edu> Additional information. Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. Original Message From: Dan Irving Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2018 3:41 PM To: QStudy-L Reply To: QStudy-L Subject: Re: [QSTUDY-L] Job Ad - Associate Professor In Gender and Women's Studies at Carleton University My apologies - I have copied and pasted ad for the Associate level T-T position in Women's and Gender Studies at Carleton University ****** WebXtender Interactive Viewer About the position: The Pauline Jewett Institute of Women's & Gender Studies invites applications for a preliminary (tenure-track) position in Women's and Gender Studies at the rank of Associate Professor, to commence July 1, 2018. We seek applicants with strong and broad backgrounds in Feminist Studies whose scholarship bridges Disability Studies, Transnational Feminism, Critical Race Theory, and/or Sexuality Studies. The successful candidate will play a leading role in the development of a new, innovative program designed to introduce Critical Diversity Studies as a major Institute component. The Pauline Jewett Institute of Women?s and Gender Studies was established in 1987. For the past 30 years, the Institute has fostered research and study, sponsored workshops and speakers, and promoted discussion and debate on gender issues. Our programs of study include BA (Honours), BA, and MA degrees. We also offer a Post-baccalaureate Diploma. The Institute has a focus on Feminist Intersectional and Transnational Analyses. We are committed to achieving the highest standards of excellence in our teaching, research and scholarship. We work to encourage engaged, critical feminist thought from diverse perspectives. It is a place for all those with an interest in feminist and equity issues to explore scholarship and activism. For more information, please see: https://carleton.ca/womensstudies Qualifications: Candidates will have a doctorate in Women?s/Feminist/Gender Studies or a related field, an active research profile, demonstrated excellence in teaching at both the graduate and the undergraduate levels, and strong administrative skills. Areas of teaching will be determined based on the areas of expertise held by the successful candidate. Application Instructions: Applicants are asked to forward the following information in a single PDF file to the Institute by noon on Friday, April 13, 2018: 1. (a) A letter of application, 2. (b) A current curriculum vitae, 3. (c) Two sample publications, 4. (d) A teaching dossier, which must include teaching evaluations, a statement of teaching philosophy, and a sample course syllabus 5. (e) Three letters of reference are also required and should be sent directly by the referees to the email address below and be received by the deadline of Friday, April 13, 2018. Send applications by email to karen.march@carleton.ca Please indicate in your application if you are a Canadian citizen or permanent resident of Canada. About Carleton University: Join our intellectual and collaborative community of scholars. Carleton University is a dynamic and innovative research and teaching institution with a nationally and internationally reputation as a leader in collaborative teaching and learning, research and governance. With over 28,000 students, 850 academic faculty, and 2,000 staff and more than 100 programs of study, we encourage creative risk-taking enabling minds to connect, discover and generate transformative knowledge. Located in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada?s capital city has a population of almost one million and reflects the country?s bilingual and multicultural character. Carleton?s location in the nation?s capital provides many opportunities for scholarship and research with groups and institutions that reflect the diversity of the country. To learn more about our University and the City of Ottawa, please visit www.carleton.ca/provost. Carleton University is strongly committed to fostering diversity within its community as a source of excellence, cultural enrichment, and social strength. We welcome those who would contribute to the further diversification of our University including, but not limited to women; visible minorities; First Nations, Inuit and Me?tis peoples; persons with disabilities; and persons of any sexual orientation or gender identity and expressions. Applicants selected for an interview are asked to contact Dr. Karen March, Chair of the Search Committee, as soon as possible to discuss any accommodation requirements. Arrangements will be made in a timely manner. All qualified candidates are encouraged to apply; however, Canadians and permanent residents will be given priority. All positions are subject to budgetary approval. On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 5:37 PM, Heike Schotten wrote: > Hello - no attachment that went through. Can you copy/paste the ad into > the body of the email? > > Many thanks, > Heike > > C. Heike Schotten > Associate Professor > Department of Political Science > University of Massachusetts Boston > Boston, MA 02125-3393 > (617) 287-6927 > http://works.bepress.com/heike_schotten/ > > > > > > > > > On 2/27/18, 4:36 PM, "Qstudy-l on behalf of Dan Irving" < > qstudy-l-bounces@mailman.rice.edu on behalf of irving.dan@gmail.com> > wrote: > > >We are very pleased to announce a position in Gender and Women Studies at > >Carleton University. I have attached the job ad. Please circulate widely. > > > >best, > >Dan > > > >-- > >Dr. Dan Irving > >Associate Professor > >Coordinator of Sexuality Studies Minor > >Human Rights and Sexuality Studies > >Institute of Interdisciplinary Studies > >2213 Dunton Tower > >Carleton University > >Ottawa, ON > >Office Phone: 613-520-2600 x. 1899 > >_______________________________________________ > >Qstudy-l mailing list > >Qstudy-l@mailman.rice.edu > >https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/qstudy-l > _______________________________________________ > Qstudy-l mailing list > Qstudy-l@mailman.rice.edu > https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/qstudy-l > -- Dr. Dan Irving Associate Professor Coordinator of Sexuality Studies Minor Human Rights and Sexuality Studies Institute of Interdisciplinary Studies 2213 Dunton Tower Carleton University Ottawa, ON Office Phone: 613-520-2600 x. 1899 _______________________________________________ Qstudy-l mailing list Qstudy-l@mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/qstudy-l From mcole@ucsd.edu Tue Feb 27 20:34:44 2018 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2018 04:34:44 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: [COGDEVSOC] Positions available in the RYTE Institute at Montclair State University In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jobs ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Danielle Roberts Date: Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 7:39 PM Subject: [COGDEVSOC] Positions available in the RYTE Institute at Montclair State University To: Please see the attached position announcements for multiple positions available in the Institute for Research on Youth Thriving and Evaluation (RYTE) at Montclair State University. We are looking for an interview coordinator, participant recruitment coordinator, and a total of 4 post docs/research scientists for a national study examining character development of youth and impacts of adult volunteer training within the Boy Scouts of America. E. Danielle Roberts, Ph.D. Postdoctoral Research Associate Montclair State University Department of Family Science and Human Development Institute for Research on Youth Thriving and Evaluation (RYTE) _______________________________________________ To post to the CDS listserv, send your message to: cogdevsoc@lists.cogdevsoc.org (If you belong to the listserv and have not included any large attachments, your message will be posted without moderation--so be careful!) To subscribe or unsubscribe from the listserv, visit: http://lists.cogdevsoc.org/listinfo.cgi/cogdevsoc-cogdevsoc.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Post Doctoral Research Associate Job Description_FINAL.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 175209 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20180228/58292d2f/attachment.pdf -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Research Participant Recruitment Coordinator_FINAL.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 176927 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20180228/58292d2f/attachment-0001.pdf -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Research Scientist Job Description_FINAL.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 175474 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20180228/58292d2f/attachment-0002.pdf -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Research Study Interview Coordinator Position Announcement_FINAL.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 176688 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20180228/58292d2f/attachment-0003.pdf From anamshane@gmail.com Wed Feb 28 10:10:30 2018 From: anamshane@gmail.com (Ana Marjanovic-Shane) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2018 18:10:30 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Do you have a 2003 AERA conference program?? Message-ID: Dear all, Does someone have a book of the 2003 AERA conference program? It is not online, and Eugene and I need to check something in it. Please send us a message privatelly if you do have this program, and we will let you know what we are looking for and ask if you can check it for us. We really appreciate your help. Thanks a lot, Ana and Eugene -- *Ana Marjanovic-Shane, Ph.D.* Independent Scholar, Professor of Education Dialogic Pedagogy Journal, deputy Editor-in-Chief (dpj.pitt.edu) e-mail: anamshane@gmail.com Phone: +1 267-334-2905 From Phillip.White@ucdenver.edu Wed Feb 28 10:35:52 2018 From: Phillip.White@ucdenver.edu (White, Phillip) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2018 18:35:52 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Fw: [QSTUDY-L] Job Ad - Lecturer in WGSS at Georgia State University In-Reply-To: <617348388.6280381.1519842785563@mail.yahoo.com> References: <617348388.6280381.1519842785563.ref@mail.yahoo.com>, <617348388.6280381.1519842785563@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20180228183552.5955728.85522.27525@ucdenver.edu> Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. Original Message From: Andy Reisinger Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2018 11:33 AM To: qstudy-l@mailman.rice.edu Reply To: QStudy-L Subject: [QSTUDY-L] Job Ad - Lecturer in WGSS at Georgia State University TheInstitute for Women?s, Gender, and Sexuality Studies (WGSS) at Georgia StateUniversity invites applications for the anticipated position of Lecturer,pending budgetary approval. The Lecturer will teach courses in the WGSS degreeprogram and play a central role in the development of a practitioner-orientedtrack or concentration in the MA and BA degree programs. The new tracks orconcentrations will emphasize experiential and collaborative learning throughcommunity-based engagement, participatory and community research, and partnershipswith non-profit and community organizations. Opportunities for growth andsupport in this position include providing leadership in undergraduate andgraduate curriculum, university-level teaching fellowships and grants through GeorgiaState?s Center for Excellence in Teaching and Learning, and successivepromotion to the ranks of Senior Lecturer and Principal Senior Lecturer. WGSS is a collegial, vibrant,interdisciplinary environment composed of core faculty as well as affiliatefaculty from throughout the College of Arts and Sciences and the university. Ourareas of focus are gender and globalization, sexuality studies, and socialchange. The Institute offers an M.A., graduate certificate, B.A., and undergraduateminor. Further information is availableat wgss.gsu.edu. GeorgiaState University isa leading research university located in the heart of downtown Atlanta. Apublic institution with more than 50,000 students from throughout the UnitedStates and 160 other countries, Georgia State has a highly diverse studentpopulation and is among the top publicdegree-granting institutions for African American and students of color in theUS. Complete information isavailable at www.gsu.edu. Responsibilities Thesuccessful candidate can anticipate teaching undergraduate and master?s-levelcourses in WGSS (typically 4 courses per semester) and participating in serviceat the institute, college, and/or university levels. The candidate will beexpected to take a creative role in the future directions of the Institute,including but not limited to, academic advisement and career preparation, strengtheninginterdisciplinary connections on campus, and developing collaborativerelationships with local community-based and non-profit organizations. Qualifications EssentialQualifications ? Ph.D.in Women?s, Gender, and Sexuality Studies or closely related field by time ofappointment ? Excellencein teaching undergraduates at the university level, including introductory WGSSclasses ? Experiencein or potential to engage diverse student populations in and beyond theclassroom ? Potentialto contribute to the development of our practitioner-oriented degree tracks PreferredQualifications ? Excellencein teaching master?s students at the university level ? Experiencein one or more of the following: community-based, participatory, or actionresearch; grant-writing; non-profit work and community organizing; policy development ? Teachingcompetency in using innovative pedagogies that incorporate media and socialmedia, digital platforms, and community engagement ? Researchbackground in diverse and innovative methodologies Submit thefollowing materials to WGSSLecturerSearch@gsu.edu: 1) aletter of application addressing the essential and preferred qualifications 2) acurriculum vitae 3) a WGSSsyllabus and evidence of past and/or potential teaching excellence, includingcontributions to diversity and inclusion 4) names,email addresses, and titles of at least three professional references Review ofapplications will begin immediately and continue until the position is filled.To ensure consideration, submit all materials by March 16, 2018. Should you berecommended for a position, an offer of employment will be conditional onbackground verification, with an anticipated start date of August 2018. Questionsabout the position or the Institute should be directed to the chair of thesearch committee at WGSSLecturerSearch@gsu.edu. GeorgiaState University is an AA/EEO Employer and does not discriminate on the basisof race, ethnicity, national origin, sex, sexual orientation, age, veteranstatus, disability, or any other federal, state, or local protected class. As acampus with a diverse student body, we encourage applications from women,minorities, and individuals with a history of mentoring underrepresentedminorities. _______________________________________________ Qstudy-l mailing list Qstudy-l@mailman.rice.edu https://mailman.rice.edu/mailman/listinfo/qstudy-l From wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com Wed Feb 28 14:11:31 2018 From: wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com (Wolff-Michael Roth) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2018 14:11:31 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In-Reply-To: References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> <1518914964416.39650@iped.uio.no> <1518978734957.93647@iped.uio.no> <87FCF1E0-1B28-4F92-A85C-9E5A10424B74@gmail.com> <1519110745104.46827@iped.uio.no> <1519598399026.36406@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AD5C72@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> Message-ID: Hi all, this article "In praise of slow" appears to be fitting the discussion. The author uses a nice analogy with running. Michael http://science.sciencemag.org/content/359/6375/602 On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 8:40 AM, Huw Lloyd wrote: > "Assessing their abilities and accomplishments in this regard was a matter > of judgment and so could not be quantified; it could be exercised only by > those capable of it." > > I would say, "cannot be quantified simply". > > Best, > Huw > > On 26 February 2018 at 15:05, Greg Thompson > wrote: > > > And here is a nice article that speaks to the bureaucratic logic that I > was > > mentioning (the author refers to "the all-administrative institution"): > > https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/whose-university-is-it-anyway/#! > > > > A quote from it: > > "The revolution is over and the administrators have won. But the > > persistence of traditional structures and language has led some to think > > that the fight over the institution is now just beginning. This is a > > mistake. As with most revolutions, open conflict occurs only after real > > power has already changed hands." > > > > -greg > > > > On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 6:27 PM, Martin Packer > wrote: > > > > > On STEM and social science: > > > > > > < > > doctors-revolt-bernard-lown.html?action=click&pgtype= > > > Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col- > > > left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav= > > > opinion-c-col-left-region > > 02/24/opinion/sunday/doctors-revolt-bernard-lown.html? > > > action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading& > > > module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c-col- > > > left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region>>> > > > > > > On measures of learning: > > > > > > > > measure-learning-outcomes.html?action=click&pgtype= > > > Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col- > > > left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav= > > > opinion-c-col-left-region > > 02/23/opinion/sunday/colleges-measure-learning-outcomes. > > > html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story- > > > heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c- > > > col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region>> > > > > > > Martin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 25, 2018, at 8:15 PM, Glassman, Michael > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Huw, > > > > > > > > Perhaps the opposite is also true though. STEM researchers can > better > > > understand what they are doing if they are well versed in the social > > > sciences. Understand the history and the meaning of what they are doing > > so > > > they do not act as androids (sorry, been watching the Aliens trilogy of > > > late). Perhaps we made the wrong calculation. We have lost control of > our > > > great STEM innovations because the people using them don't understand > the > > > social webs that they create. So we have people pushing xMOOCs > (whatever > > > happened to MOOCs anyway) as saving education (and also a bundle so > > > everybody gets tax cuts, wheeee!), saying that they are good because > they > > > can reach many, the proverbial long tail, with great education > (Harvard, > > > Stanford). Yet nobody asks the question, "Why is this a good thing." > > There > > > really isn't much supporting this in earlier distance education. There > > is > > > actually more evidence of how dangerous it is (Participatory Action > > > Research). > > > > > > > > Michael > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Huw Lloyd > > > > Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2018 7:32 PM > > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > > > > > I would ask, what makes you think you have an ecology (or niche)? It > > > seems that the notion of topologically derived ecologies is still > bandied > > > about since Bronfenbrenner (1977), though I do not know whether he > > managed > > > to refine (overhaul and improve) his notions into something integrated > > and > > > agent-centric. One does not provide an ecology or an environment. The > > > environment is different for everyone, a simple consideration of a > > > rock-face or climbing wall is sufficient to grasp this -- the so called > > > environment (the rock face) is different to each climber, their > > environment > > > is that which is appropriate to them which includes contexts well > beyond > > > what is established in an institution. From what I can gauge, > > historically, > > > slack was deliberately introduced into courses to afford personal > > enquiry. > > > > There was the basic work and then there was the genuine enquiry. Who > in > > > their right mind wants to write an exam essay on a question they are > > > expected to pre-write and repeat by memory? Why would someone who > enjoys > > > thinking about their subject want to go through that kind of > impoverished > > > tedium? These systems are obviously geared for "delivery". > > > > > > > > Perhaps the biggest cultural shift can be achieved through > instituting > > > joint and personal enquiry. A teacher that stands before their class > and > > > delivers their subject inevitably obscures and obstructs the process of > > > enquiry, although many students will have learnt from a young age that > > this > > > is what to expect and demand. Engagement with genuine problems rather > > than > > > what students are expected to do is the basic orientational issue. > > Dispose > > > of grades, then anyone who isn't interested is free to go home. > > > > > > > > The advance of STEM research is probably a good thing for social > > science. > > > > For productive work, social science must understand the structure of > > > STEM based work, in addition to bureaucratic processes and > circumstances > > > for creative work. Sticking one's head in the sand over STEM-like > > research > > > serves merely to perpetuate the impoverished side of social science. It > > > reminds me of the scene in Pirsig's Zen and the Art of Motorcycle > > > Maintenance in which a couple lack the wherewithal to fix a dripping > > faucet > > > that gives them grief and instead choose to ignore it. Though it was a > > very > > > long time ago, Pirsig's book may have contributed to my understanding > of > > > quality and might be thought of as an exploration of some social issues > > > pertaining to technical enterprises. Another good text to appreciate > > > quality more directly, probably outside the formal area of STEM, is > > > Alshuller's Innovation Algorithm. > > > > > > > > Warm regards to you Henry, Greg, Alfredo. > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > Huw > > > > > > > > On 25 February 2018 at 22:39, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> Greg, Huw, and others, I do often get worried that in the formals > and > > > >> informal meetings at our department (department of education), > > > >> conversations tend to focus on the "micro" developments that you > > > >> mention (students, grades, getting a next grant, getting that paper > > > >> published, making sure you've got enough) most of the time, and not > so > > > >> much on what society we would like to have, and how our institution > > > >> could/should contribute to that. I do not have any suggestions on > the > > > >> type of studies that you ask about?dealing with how ecologies of > > > >> scholarship in academia lead to given developmental dynamics?other > > > >> than the classical studies in STS, like Latour & Woolgar's on > > > >> laboratory life, or S. L. Star's. But when I look forward at what > lies > > > >> between me (or anyone in my institution) and a change in the way > this > > > >> institution has impact in the life of many, what I see is lots of > > > >> routines, habits, documents, and paperwork entangled in the middle, > > > >> such that the idea "mediation all the way through" makes all the > > > >> sense. And seeing things that way (from the ecological perspective), > > > >> makes the possibility of changing things to look actually feasible, > or > > > >> more accurately perhaps, imagine-able. I'd like to continue being > part > > > >> of the ecology to be able to be also be part of its changing it. I > > > >> hope others will bring more specific literature to bear. I am > already > > > downloading some of Peter Sloterdijk's to read. > > > >> > > > >> Alfredo > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> ________________________________________ > > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > >> on behalf of Greg Thompson > > > >> > > > >> Sent: 24 February 2018 17:45 > > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > >> > > > >> I appreciate Huw's concern about academia and the push to orient to > a > > > >> broader and more systemic concern with "development". I think that > > > >> this is what institutions of higher education are supposed to have, > > > >> right? - at the very least a concern for the development of > individual > > > >> "students", but also, one would hope, a concern for "development" > at a > > > >> longer timescale (e.g., how to be a better society, a better world). > > > >> They certainly tout these in their promo materials. > > > >> > > > >> And yet, in practice, these institutions often fall back on > > > >> bureaucratic or economic logics. Bureaucratic logic goes something > > > >> like, "just publish (in "good" (i.e., high impact factor) journals), > > > >> who cares what you publish so long as we can count it to determine > its > > > (and your) 'value'(!)". > > > >> > > > >> As for the economic logic, I was just talking with Rick Shweder the > > > >> other day about this issue and he expressed the concern about the > push > > > >> towards STEM education at the expense of all else and the way that > > > >> STEM buildings are slowly starting to take over his campus (the > > > >> University of Chicago - a place that was long held to be a hold out > of > > > >> liberal arts education - apparently they now have an engineering > > > >> program). He suggested that this is tied to an early 80's court > > > >> decision that gave universities ownership of patents developed on > > their > > > campuses. > > > >> > > > >> To my mind, this calls to mind a concern with ecologies of > development > > > >> (across the shorter and longer timescales). What are the ecologies > > > >> (social, economic, political, etc.) within which development (at > these > > > >> various > > > >> timescales) occurs in our world today? This is really a question of > > > >> what is possible and/or what is likely with regard to becoming. What > > > >> are the forms of life and forms of development that are sustainable > > > >> given the larger ecologies in which that development happens? > > > >> > > > >> And for thinking through that problem, I've had a hard time thinking > > > >> of anyone who has better thought through this problem than Marx - at > > > >> the longer timescale of development, that is (Vygotsky would, of > > > >> course, be better at thinking through development at the shorter > > > >> timescale of ontogeny). > > > >> > > > >> I'd love to hear others' thoughts on those who have studied > activities > > > >> that can begin to shed light on these ecologies of development > > > >> (particularly at the longer timescale). Any thoughts/suggestions? I > > > >> would imagine this work considering various kinds of institutions > that > > > >> run the gamut - from venture capitalist firms to non-profits to > > > >> governmental institutions to institutions of higher education. I > would > > > >> presume that each of these kinds of institutions would have a local > > > >> ecology within which they work, but I am tempted to imagine some > kind > > > >> of global meta-ecology (perhaps Marx's "global > > > >> capitalism"?) within which each of these local ecologies operates. > I'd > > > >> be curious about actual research that has been done documenting the > > > >> nature of these ecologies - e.g., what kinds of resources are > > > >> available to be exploited? What kinds of possibilities are there for > > > >> different forms of life? What institutional organisms can thrive? > > > >> Which are dying off? (and just to be clear, I am intending a > > > >> biological/evolutionary nature of the metaphor). > > > >> > > > >> It seems that this kind of work would be most likely to have been > done > > > >> by folks in the CHAT world, but perhaps the scale (of time and > space) > > > >> is a bit beyond the scales that CHAT folks prefer to consider? > > > >> > > > >> (I should add that I've recently discovered the work of Peter > > > >> Sloterdijk's Bubbles trilogy and am curious if anyone has any > thoughts > > > >> on the value of his approach - it seems to fit very well with Marx > and > > > >> with CHAT/Vygotsky, my only initial concern was that he seems to > fly a > > > >> little fast and loose with pyschoanalytics at times - not a serious > > > >> problem, but perhaps in a few places). > > > >> > > > >> Sympathetically, > > > >> greg > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 1:57 PM, Huw Lloyd < > huw.softdesigns@gmail.com > > > > > > >> wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> Well, I would say there is more to it than simply transfer-ability, > > > >>> which might be thought of as a good bureaucratic requirement. > Really > > > >>> what is required is genuine development -- reorganisation of > thought > > > >>> and > > > >> learning. > > > >>> That is what is significant at a personal level, which is also the > > > >>> basis > > > >> of > > > >>> insights and creative work (i.e. personal knowledge rather than > > > >>> second > > > >> hand > > > >>> knowledge). The researcher in the blog article does not evince this > > > >>> (with allusions to the nature of her training). There is the > history > > > >>> school children learn, which largely concerns the use of memory, > and > > > >>> then there > > > >> is > > > >>> the history of conditions, relations and processes, which concerns > > > >>> protracted thought. This developmental emphasis is what is lacking > > > >>> in institutions which is why I have frequently pointed it out. > > > >>> > > > >>> This principle apples to "secure" jobs too. The jobs I have walked > > > >>> away from have been due to the overly narrow scope, where I felt it > > > >>> was necessary to be far more ambitious to achieve modest > > > >>> satisfaction, an ambition which included achieving the wider scope > > > >>> within the norms established. Similar issues pertain to my > > > >>> peripheral engagement with academia. Twenty years ago, after > > > >>> completing a masters in cognitive > > > >> science > > > >>> (a good year), I decided against pursuing any further formal > > > >>> education > > > >> with > > > >>> any immediacy due to my sense that what I was encountering in the > > > >>> subject (and related subjects) was fundamentally wrong or > > > >>> inadequate, but I couldn't quite discern what that was. So, for me, > > > >>> I had no interest in furthering the academic course at the time, > > > >>> because I was concerned with understanding, doing, discovering and > > > >>> development, not being a "good researcher". I was and am > > > >>> uninterested in the trappings of academia, what it looks like from > > > >>> the outside (with dubious ethics of promoting those in society who > > > >>> least need it) -- hence I am not too bothered about where the > > > >>> experiences come from. After all, if you want sound knowledge then > > > >>> it should be validated in places where it counts (in action), not > in > > > an echo chamber of words. > > > >>> > > > >>>> From my (developmental) perspective academia appears to be > > > >>>> chockfull of > > > >>> unproductive thinking. The lack of systems understanding in the > > > >>> social sciences (which has been pointed out by key persons for two > > > >>> generations) > > > >> I > > > >>> find to be quite incredible. This, as far as I can see, is the > > > >>> panacea to the stasis and lethargy that I have seen in certain > > > >>> institutions, where there are people in secure jobs with no > interest > > > >>> in revitalising an institution (perhaps the same people who rely > > > >>> upon their status for authority). In the UK, in the social > sciences, > > > >>> the whole social science infrastructure is built upon a notion of > > > >>> quality that is ignorant of systems -- that is the degree to which > > > >>> unproductive thinking has > > > >> penetrated > > > >>> social science. > > > >>> > > > >>> Yet there is much more to it still. Recently I have also come to a > > > >>> surprising awareness that developmental prerogatives have rather a > > > >>> significant amount in common with spiritual ones. So I would offer > > > >> broader > > > >>> advice than Michael's of staying clear of hardship. It may be that > > > >>> in > > > >> that > > > >>> "nadir" something surprising may be discovered. For anyone with a > > > >>> passion "job security" is not a goal, at best it is a means to an > > > >>> ends, at worst > > > >> it > > > >>> is an obstacle. > > > >>> > > > >>> Over and out. :) > > > >>> > > > >>> Best, > > > >>> Huw > > > >>> > > > >>> On 20 February 2018 at 07:12, Alfredo Jornet Gil > > > >>> > > > >>> wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>>> Huw, Helena, and all, > > > >>>> > > > >>>> thanks to you both for taking the discussion where I was hoping it > > > >>>> to > > > >> go > > > >>>> further: first, towards a reflection on the nature of training > > > >>>> academic scholars go through as it concerns the classical problem > > > >>>> of learning "transfer"; and then, as it regards the question of > > > >>>> academic freedom > > > >>> (which > > > >>>> actually may be the same question, just taken in a language more > > > >> adequate > > > >>>> to an ecological understanding of the problem). This is absolutely > > > >>>> not > > > >>> just > > > >>>> an individual problem. And, on that matter, I should be clear that > > > >>>> I > > > >> am a > > > >>>> privileged in a privileged land, where, despite all uncertainty > > > >>>> and > > > >> pains > > > >>>> that my family have gone and go through, I have today a good > > > >>>> background > > > >>> and > > > >>>> network, and probably better prospects than the majority of junior > > > >>> scholars > > > >>>> out there. Not that I have earned this privilege for nothing: my > > > >> migrant > > > >>>> history and that of my family is all connected to an effort and > > > >>>> quest > > > >> to > > > >>>> get better chances of academic opportunity in this market Helena > > > >>>> talks about. But my personal story, as that of the historian in > > > >>>> the article shared or of my French astronomer friend, are relevant > > > >>>> in as far as > > > >> they > > > >>>> help us reflect on just those questions. They really also make one > > > >> wonder > > > >>>> on the sense of the term "academic freedom", for the latter term > > > >>>> cannot > > > >>> be > > > >>>> about doing whatever research you want to do independently of some > > > >> market > > > >>>> conditions and societal needs and economy. We may then pose the > > > >>> questions, > > > >>>> what type of "freedom" is the "freedom" current systems (of > > > >>>> incentives, > > > >>> of > > > >>>> ISI lists) afford, and what type of system could allow for another > > > >>> meaning > > > >>>> of the term "freedom"? > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Not to get too abstract, I guess that those reflections may be > > > >>>> best pondered along concrete cases, if people is willing to take > > > >>>> on Helena's suggestion to share particular stories of all that > > > >>>> goes into getting > > > >> into > > > >>>> secured academic job positions, or else, of pursuing (in)dependent > > > >>> careers > > > >>>> outside/at the borders of/across academia. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Alfredo > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> ________________________________________ > > > >>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > >>>> > > >>> > > > >>>> on behalf of Helena Worthen > > > >>>> Sent: 19 February 2018 19:19 > > > >>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > >>>> > > > >>>> In the interests of widening the discussion: > > > >>>> > > > >>>> I?ve described my work history before on this list ? basically, > > > >>>> moving from teaching literature and writing (with stopovers in > > > >>>> landscape architecture and theater production) to concern about > > > >>>> the working conditions of teachers, especially academics in higher > > > >>>> education, the > > > >> 75% > > > >>>> who are contingent/adjuncts. The concern is both for the people > > > >> employed > > > >>>> this way and for the integrity of the institutions that employ > > > >>>> them. I eventually engaged this concern by working with and for > > > >>>> the labor > > > >>> movement, > > > >>>> ending up first working for the garment/apparel workers union in > > > >>>> Philadelphia and then at the Labor Educaiton Program at the U of > > > >>> Illinois, > > > >>>> from which I retired in 2010. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> The new twist to this story is about the employment of academics > > > >>>> on short-term contracts in Viet Nam, under conditions that seem to > > > >>>> be increasingly frequent in the ?developing? world, where the > > > >>>> market for education is booming. University World News http://www > . > > > >>>> universityworldnews.com/ tracks this phenomenon and includes > > > >> occasinal > > > >>>> critical articles about the competition for rankings. The > > > >>>> university > > > >>> where > > > >>>> my husband and I have been teaching on and off since 2015, Ton Duc > > > >> Thang > > > >>> in > > > >>>> Ho Chi Minh City, recruits professors from all over the world with > > > >>>> a promise of $2,000 per month US ? but extending their contracts > > > >>>> depends > > > >> on > > > >>>> producing articles published in journals on the ISI list; the > > > >>>> nature of this list is worth taking a look at. The impact of this > > > >>>> practice on the culture and student body is not all bad. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> My point here is to place the issue of the challenge of getting a > > > >>>> tenure-track job in a global context. This is not just an > > > >>>> individual problem. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> I?m willing to go further down this line of discussion. However, > > > >>> academics > > > >>>> are often reluctant to reveal and compare their working conditions > > > >>>> on > > > >> an > > > >>>> ?academic? discussion list. Maybe by putting up the issue of what > > > >>> academic > > > >>>> freedom requires, and how these requirements fare in the global > > > >>>> market > > > >>> for > > > >>>> higher education, we can shed the embarassment of revealing > > > >>>> information about our own experiences with getting the brass ring > > > >>>> of a full-time, secure job. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Let?s see if anyone picks up on this. Maybe I?m being too vague. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Helena Worthen > > > >>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com > > > >>>> Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 > > > >>>> Blog US/ Viet Nam: > > > >>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > > >>>> skype: helena.worthen1 > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>>> On Feb 19, 2018, at 9:19 AM, Huw Lloyd > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> wrote: > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> The article describes accumulating large amounts of knowledge > > > >>> pertaining > > > >>>> to > > > >>>>> history, which (the author maintains) cannot be turned to other > > > >>>> endeavours. > > > >>>>> This, no doubt, is true for her. If, however, her approach to > > > >> studying > > > >>>>> history had been systemic, then there would have been a powerful > > > >>>>> form > > > >>> of > > > >>>>> re-application and continuity in any work that was turned to. > > > >>>>> Perhaps > > > >>> the > > > >>>>> same can be said for "phd/postdoc training". If it cannot be > > > >>>>> reused > > > >> or > > > >>>>> isn't enabling, what, substantively, is it? > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Best, > > > >>>>> Huw > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> On 18 February 2018 at 18:32, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > > > >> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > > > >>>>> wrote: > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>>> Really inspiring words and work, Francine. I do see community > > > >> colleges > > > >>>> and > > > >>>>>> many other educational settings apart from universities as > > > >>>>>> really > > > >>>> valuable > > > >>>>>> and exciting opportunities; the PhD and following postdoc etc > > > >> training > > > >>>> in > > > >>>>>> universities, however, tend to be very much targeted towards a > > > >>>>>> very > > > >>>> narrow > > > >>>>>> spectrum of positions, or at least that's been my experience. I > > > >>>>>> am > > > >>> very > > > >>>>>> happy that this thread may widen that scope and make visible > > > >>>>>> other > > > >>>> paths. > > > >>>>>> And as Mike suggested, it would be very interesting to hear > > > >>>>>> from > > > >>> several > > > >>>>>> others who have followed distinct trajectories apart from the > > > >>>>>> phd-postdoc-assist/assoc. prof-prof, and yet made a career in > > > >>>>>> touch > > > >>> with > > > >>>>>> most of what was developed in the junior (phd and few later) > > years. > > > >>>>>> Thanks! > > > >>>>>> Alfredo > > > >>>>>> ________________________________________ > > > >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > >>> edu> > > > >>>>>> on behalf of Larry Smolucha > > > >>>>>> Sent: 18 February 2018 06:20 > > > >>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> Message from Francine Smolucha on a scholar's life with or > > > >>>>>> without > > > >>>> academia > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> Alfredo, > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> There are other jobs that pay well (sometimes with tenure and > > > >>>>>> early retirement benefits) - besides professorships at four > > > >>>>>> year colleges > > > >>> and > > > >>>>>> universities. Administrative and support staff positions pay > > well. > > > >>> And > > > >>>>>> don't overlook community colleges, technical colleges, and > > > >>>>>> public > > > >>> grade > > > >>>>>> schools and high schools. There is also the private sector and > > > >>>> government > > > >>>>>> jobs. > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> As a 'low status' community college professor, I managed to > > > >> translate > > > >>>>>> Vygotsky's > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> overlooked writings on creativity (back in the 1980's) and > > > >> introduced > > > >>>> his > > > >>>>>> theory of creativity to academia. I got early retirement at > > > >>>>>> age 53 > > > >>> and > > > >>>>>> continue to write and publish. While my Ph.D from the > > > >>>>>> University of > > > >>>> Chicago > > > >>>>>> gave me academic bona fides, it was the quality of the > > > >>>>>> scholarly > > > >> work > > > >>>> that > > > >>>>>> ultimately mattered. > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> I was always inspired by the harsh circumstances of Vygotsky's > > > >>>>>> life > > > >>> and > > > >>>>>> how he still kept on writing. > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> [When I felt really sorry for myself, I would actually say > > > >>>>>> "Well at > > > >>>> least > > > >>>>>> I am not coughing up blood"] > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> So many of his works were not published in his lifetime, he did > > not > > > >>>>>> collect a royalties check, and they say he was depressed at > the > > > >> end > > > >>>> of > > > >>>>>> his life. > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> I leave you with this quote from an ancient Sufi mystic - > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> You can't always get what you want but you can get what you > > > >>>>>> need > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> . > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> ________________________________ > > > >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > >>> edu> > > > >>>>>> on behalf of mike cole > > > >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:07 PM > > > >>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> Yours is a quandary shared by your generation, Alfredo. > > > >>>>>> Being allowed to teach and conduct research in a quality > > > >>>>>> institution > > > >>> is > > > >>>> a > > > >>>>>> great privilege and an > > > >>>>>> increasingly rarer possibility. > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> There are several people on this list who have organized their > > > >>>>>> lives > > > >>> to > > > >>>> be > > > >>>>>> independent scholars > > > >>>>>> while staying connected to the core institutions of > > > >>>>>> disciplinary > > > >>>> training. > > > >>>>>> It might be nice to hear > > > >>>>>> the variety out there. > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> It appears pretty certain that the situation is going to get > > > >>>>>> worse before/if it gets better. > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> What can the collective experience of xmca come up with that > > > >>>>>> would > > > >> be > > > >>>>>> useful to the many > > > >>>>>> of you caught in this meat grinder? > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> mike > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > > > >>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > > > >>>>>> wrote: > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> Good luck then, Wagner! > > > >>>>>>> A > > > >>>>>>> ________________________________________ > > > >>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > >> > > >>> edu > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>>>> on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit > > > >>>>>>> Sent: 18 February 2018 01:07 > > > >>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity > > > >>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> This just hit me in the spot... > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> Wagner > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2018 9:48 PM, "Alfredo Jornet Gil" > > > >>>>>>> > > >>> > > > >>>>>> wrote: > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> I have not been able to contribute to this list as much as > > > >>>>>>>> I'd > > > >> like > > > >>> to > > > >>>>>>>> lately, among other things, because I need to find a job, and > > > >>>>>>>> I > > > >> need > > > >>>> to > > > >>>>>>>> make sure that I have checked all those boxes that selection > > > >>>> committees > > > >>>>>>>> will check (enough first-authored publications? in good > > > >>>>>>>> enough > > > >>>>>> journals? > > > >>>>>>>> enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? > > > >>>>>>>> acquiring > > > >>> funds? > > > >>>>>>> more > > > >>>>>>>> than all others candidates? and more than > > > >>> favoured-for-whatever-other- > > > >>>>>>> reasons > > > >>>>>>>> candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these weeks to > > > >>>>>>>> fill > > > >> up > > > >>> a > > > >>>>>>>> competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> And, although I did not think that it was particularly well > > > >> written, > > > >>>> it > > > >>>>>>>> was both relieving and discouraging to read this article (see > > > >>>>>>>> link > > > >>>>>> below, > > > >>>>>>>> which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague who I > > > >>>>>>>> think > > > >> also > > > >>>>>>>> subscribes this list). The article makes visible the pain > > > >>>>>>>> scholars > > > >>> go > > > >>>>>>>> through when, after so many years of digging and digging and > > > >>> digging a > > > >>>>>>>> little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to leave it and > > > >>>>>>>> find > > > >>> some > > > >>>>>>> other > > > >>>>>>>> thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer who was > > > >>>>>>>> moving > > > >>>>>> through > > > >>>>>>>> the world with his lovely family, short-term project after > > > >>> short-term > > > >>>>>>>> project, getting better and better at what he worked on > > > >> (apparently > > > >>> he > > > >>>>>>> was > > > >>>>>>>> among the few who had expertise in computer modeling > > > >>>>>>>> simulating > > > >> some > > > >>>>>>>> astronomic events) , and finally having to step out academia > > > >>>>>>>> last > > > >>> year > > > >>>>>> to > > > >>>>>>>> find something else to do, for his family no longer could > > > >>>>>>>> stand > > > >> the > > > >>>>>>>> constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be me soon. And > > > >>>>>>>> that > > > >>> may > > > >>>>>>> not > > > >>>>>>>> be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the story > > > >>>>>>>> seems to > > > >> be > > > >>>>>>> quite > > > >>>>>>>> endemic to academia and may be interesting to some of you: > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Loses-When/24 > > > >>>>>>>> 2560 > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> Alfredo > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> -- > > > >> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > > > >> Assistant Professor > > > >> Department of Anthropology > > > >> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > > > >> Brigham Young University > > > >> Provo, UT 84602 > > > >> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu > > > >> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > > Assistant Professor > > Department of Anthropology > > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > > Brigham Young University > > Provo, UT 84602 > > WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu > > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > > > From bferholt@gmail.com Wed Feb 28 15:05:48 2018 From: bferholt@gmail.com (Beth Ferholt) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2018 18:05:48 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Do you have a 2003 AERA conference program?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sure but it is up now -- here is my passworld and ID: *bferholt, AERAnyc123* On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 1:10 PM, Ana Marjanovic-Shane wrote: > Dear all, > > Does someone have a book of the 2003 AERA conference program? It is not > online, and Eugene and I need to check something in it. > Please send us a message privatelly if you do have this program, and we > will let you know what we are looking for and ask if you can check it for > us. > > We really appreciate your help. > > Thanks a lot, > > Ana and Eugene > -- > *Ana Marjanovic-Shane, Ph.D.* > Independent Scholar, Professor of Education > Dialogic Pedagogy Journal, deputy Editor-in-Chief (dpj.pitt.edu) > e-mail: anamshane@gmail.com > Phone: +1 267-334-2905 > -- Beth Ferholt Associate Professor Department of Early Childhood and Art Education Brooklyn College, City University of New York 2900 Bedford Avenue Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu Phone: (718) 951-5205 Fax: (718) 951-4816 From bferholt@gmail.com Wed Feb 28 15:07:26 2018 From: bferholt@gmail.com (Beth Ferholt) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2018 18:07:26 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Do you have a 2003 AERA conference program?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Oh dear -- I did not mean to send to all, I didn't see this was not just to you ; ) -- I'll have to change it now I suppose, but just ask me if you want me to search the program for any times and dates and I hope you'll come to our playworld presentation! Beth On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 6:05 PM, Beth Ferholt wrote: > Sure but it is up now -- here is my passworld and ID: > > *bferholt, AERAnyc123* > > On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 1:10 PM, Ana Marjanovic-Shane > wrote: > >> Dear all, >> >> Does someone have a book of the 2003 AERA conference program? It is not >> online, and Eugene and I need to check something in it. >> Please send us a message privatelly if you do have this program, and we >> will let you know what we are looking for and ask if you can check it for >> us. >> >> We really appreciate your help. >> >> Thanks a lot, >> >> Ana and Eugene >> -- >> *Ana Marjanovic-Shane, Ph.D.* >> Independent Scholar, Professor of Education >> Dialogic Pedagogy Journal, deputy Editor-in-Chief (dpj.pitt.edu) >> e-mail: anamshane@gmail.com >> Phone: +1 267-334-2905 >> > > > > -- > Beth Ferholt > Associate Professor > Department of Early Childhood and Art Education > Brooklyn College, City University of New York > 2900 Bedford Avenue > Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 > > Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu > Phone: (718) 951-5205 > Fax: (718) 951-4816 > -- Beth Ferholt Associate Professor Department of Early Childhood and Art Education Brooklyn College, City University of New York 2900 Bedford Avenue Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu Phone: (718) 951-5205 Fax: (718) 951-4816 From greg.a.thompson@gmail.com Wed Feb 28 16:04:25 2018 From: greg.a.thompson@gmail.com (Greg Thompson) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2018 17:04:25 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In-Reply-To: References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> <1518914964416.39650@iped.uio.no> <1518978734957.93647@iped.uio.no> <87FCF1E0-1B28-4F92-A85C-9E5A10424B74@gmail.com> <1519110745104.46827@iped.uio.no> <1519598399026.36406@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AD5C72@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> Message-ID: I once toyed with the idea of "slow scholarship" and I remain entirely convinced that this is a virtue. But once I was entered into the competition/race of academia, it was all about how fast you can get to the finish line (aka "publications"). Perhaps there is something good about this (assuming that it is better to publish something than to not publish anything), but it also has the nefarious effect of turning scholars into cogs in publishing factories. And, continuing in this cynical spirit, I might add that the Science article about "Slow" actually seems to be making the same case for speed - maybe it isn't a sprint, but it is still a race and first one to the finish line wins, so you better pick up the pace! Fast! And re: the man whispering in his ear as he runs: "We see how in this way the mode of production and the means of production are continually transformed, revolutionised, *how the division of labour is necessarily followed by greater divisions of labour, the application of machinery by still greater application of machinery, work on a large scale by work on a still larger scale.* "That is the law which again and again throws bourgeois production out of its old course and which compels capital to intensify the productive forces of labour, *because *it has intensified them, it, the law which gives capital no rest and continually whispers in its ear: 'Go on! Go on!'" (Marx - Wage Labour and Capital). -greg? On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 3:11 PM, Wolff-Michael Roth < wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi all, > this article "In praise of slow" appears to be fitting the discussion. The > author uses a nice analogy with running. Michael > http://science.sciencemag.org/content/359/6375/602 > > On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 8:40 AM, Huw Lloyd > wrote: > > > "Assessing their abilities and accomplishments in this regard was a > matter > > of judgment and so could not be quantified; it could be exercised only by > > those capable of it." > > > > I would say, "cannot be quantified simply". > > > > Best, > > Huw > > > > On 26 February 2018 at 15:05, Greg Thompson > > wrote: > > > > > And here is a nice article that speaks to the bureaucratic logic that I > > was > > > mentioning (the author refers to "the all-administrative institution"): > > > https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/whose-university-is-it-anyway/#! > > > > > > A quote from it: > > > "The revolution is over and the administrators have won. But the > > > persistence of traditional structures and language has led some to > think > > > that the fight over the institution is now just beginning. This is a > > > mistake. As with most revolutions, open conflict occurs only after real > > > power has already changed hands." > > > > > > -greg > > > > > > On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 6:27 PM, Martin Packer > > wrote: > > > > > > > On STEM and social science: > > > > > > > > < > > > doctors-revolt-bernard-lown.html?action=click&pgtype= > > > > Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col- > > > > left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav= > > > > opinion-c-col-left-region > > > 02/24/opinion/sunday/doctors-revolt-bernard-lown.html? > > > > action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading& > > > > module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c-col- > > > > left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region>>> > > > > > > > > On measures of learning: > > > > > > > > > > > measure-learning-outcomes.html?action=click&pgtype= > > > > Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col- > > > > left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav= > > > > opinion-c-col-left-region > > > 02/23/opinion/sunday/colleges-measure-learning-outcomes. > > > > html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story- > > > > heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c- > > > > col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region>> > > > > > > > > Martin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 25, 2018, at 8:15 PM, Glassman, Michael < > glassman.13@osu.edu> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Huw, > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps the opposite is also true though. STEM researchers can > > better > > > > understand what they are doing if they are well versed in the social > > > > sciences. Understand the history and the meaning of what they are > doing > > > so > > > > they do not act as androids (sorry, been watching the Aliens trilogy > of > > > > late). Perhaps we made the wrong calculation. We have lost control of > > our > > > > great STEM innovations because the people using them don't understand > > the > > > > social webs that they create. So we have people pushing xMOOCs > > (whatever > > > > happened to MOOCs anyway) as saving education (and also a bundle so > > > > everybody gets tax cuts, wheeee!), saying that they are good because > > they > > > > can reach many, the proverbial long tail, with great education > > (Harvard, > > > > Stanford). Yet nobody asks the question, "Why is this a good thing." > > > There > > > > really isn't much supporting this in earlier distance education. > There > > > is > > > > actually more evidence of how dangerous it is (Participatory Action > > > > Research). > > > > > > > > > > Michael > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > > > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Huw Lloyd > > > > > Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2018 7:32 PM > > > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > > > > > > > I would ask, what makes you think you have an ecology (or niche)? > It > > > > seems that the notion of topologically derived ecologies is still > > bandied > > > > about since Bronfenbrenner (1977), though I do not know whether he > > > managed > > > > to refine (overhaul and improve) his notions into something > integrated > > > and > > > > agent-centric. One does not provide an ecology or an environment. The > > > > environment is different for everyone, a simple consideration of a > > > > rock-face or climbing wall is sufficient to grasp this -- the so > called > > > > environment (the rock face) is different to each climber, their > > > environment > > > > is that which is appropriate to them which includes contexts well > > beyond > > > > what is established in an institution. From what I can gauge, > > > historically, > > > > slack was deliberately introduced into courses to afford personal > > > enquiry. > > > > > There was the basic work and then there was the genuine enquiry. > Who > > in > > > > their right mind wants to write an exam essay on a question they are > > > > expected to pre-write and repeat by memory? Why would someone who > > enjoys > > > > thinking about their subject want to go through that kind of > > impoverished > > > > tedium? These systems are obviously geared for "delivery". > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps the biggest cultural shift can be achieved through > > instituting > > > > joint and personal enquiry. A teacher that stands before their class > > and > > > > delivers their subject inevitably obscures and obstructs the process > of > > > > enquiry, although many students will have learnt from a young age > that > > > this > > > > is what to expect and demand. Engagement with genuine problems rather > > > than > > > > what students are expected to do is the basic orientational issue. > > > Dispose > > > > of grades, then anyone who isn't interested is free to go home. > > > > > > > > > > The advance of STEM research is probably a good thing for social > > > science. > > > > > For productive work, social science must understand the structure > of > > > > STEM based work, in addition to bureaucratic processes and > > circumstances > > > > for creative work. Sticking one's head in the sand over STEM-like > > > research > > > > serves merely to perpetuate the impoverished side of social science. > It > > > > reminds me of the scene in Pirsig's Zen and the Art of Motorcycle > > > > Maintenance in which a couple lack the wherewithal to fix a dripping > > > faucet > > > > that gives them grief and instead choose to ignore it. Though it was > a > > > very > > > > long time ago, Pirsig's book may have contributed to my understanding > > of > > > > quality and might be thought of as an exploration of some social > issues > > > > pertaining to technical enterprises. Another good text to appreciate > > > > quality more directly, probably outside the formal area of STEM, is > > > > Alshuller's Innovation Algorithm. > > > > > > > > > > Warm regards to you Henry, Greg, Alfredo. > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > Huw > > > > > > > > > > On 25 February 2018 at 22:39, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> Greg, Huw, and others, I do often get worried that in the formals > > and > > > > >> informal meetings at our department (department of education), > > > > >> conversations tend to focus on the "micro" developments that you > > > > >> mention (students, grades, getting a next grant, getting that > paper > > > > >> published, making sure you've got enough) most of the time, and > not > > so > > > > >> much on what society we would like to have, and how our > institution > > > > >> could/should contribute to that. I do not have any suggestions on > > the > > > > >> type of studies that you ask about?dealing with how ecologies of > > > > >> scholarship in academia lead to given developmental dynamics?other > > > > >> than the classical studies in STS, like Latour & Woolgar's on > > > > >> laboratory life, or S. L. Star's. But when I look forward at what > > lies > > > > >> between me (or anyone in my institution) and a change in the way > > this > > > > >> institution has impact in the life of many, what I see is lots of > > > > >> routines, habits, documents, and paperwork entangled in the > middle, > > > > >> such that the idea "mediation all the way through" makes all the > > > > >> sense. And seeing things that way (from the ecological > perspective), > > > > >> makes the possibility of changing things to look actually > feasible, > > or > > > > >> more accurately perhaps, imagine-able. I'd like to continue being > > part > > > > >> of the ecology to be able to be also be part of its changing it. I > > > > >> hope others will bring more specific literature to bear. I am > > already > > > > downloading some of Peter Sloterdijk's to read. > > > > >> > > > > >> Alfredo > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> ________________________________________ > > > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > >> on behalf of Greg Thompson > > > > >> > > > > >> Sent: 24 February 2018 17:45 > > > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > >> > > > > >> I appreciate Huw's concern about academia and the push to orient > to > > a > > > > >> broader and more systemic concern with "development". I think that > > > > >> this is what institutions of higher education are supposed to > have, > > > > >> right? - at the very least a concern for the development of > > individual > > > > >> "students", but also, one would hope, a concern for "development" > > at a > > > > >> longer timescale (e.g., how to be a better society, a better > world). > > > > >> They certainly tout these in their promo materials. > > > > >> > > > > >> And yet, in practice, these institutions often fall back on > > > > >> bureaucratic or economic logics. Bureaucratic logic goes something > > > > >> like, "just publish (in "good" (i.e., high impact factor) > journals), > > > > >> who cares what you publish so long as we can count it to determine > > its > > > > (and your) 'value'(!)". > > > > >> > > > > >> As for the economic logic, I was just talking with Rick Shweder > the > > > > >> other day about this issue and he expressed the concern about the > > push > > > > >> towards STEM education at the expense of all else and the way that > > > > >> STEM buildings are slowly starting to take over his campus (the > > > > >> University of Chicago - a place that was long held to be a hold > out > > of > > > > >> liberal arts education - apparently they now have an engineering > > > > >> program). He suggested that this is tied to an early 80's court > > > > >> decision that gave universities ownership of patents developed on > > > their > > > > campuses. > > > > >> > > > > >> To my mind, this calls to mind a concern with ecologies of > > development > > > > >> (across the shorter and longer timescales). What are the ecologies > > > > >> (social, economic, political, etc.) within which development (at > > these > > > > >> various > > > > >> timescales) occurs in our world today? This is really a question > of > > > > >> what is possible and/or what is likely with regard to becoming. > What > > > > >> are the forms of life and forms of development that are > sustainable > > > > >> given the larger ecologies in which that development happens? > > > > >> > > > > >> And for thinking through that problem, I've had a hard time > thinking > > > > >> of anyone who has better thought through this problem than Marx - > at > > > > >> the longer timescale of development, that is (Vygotsky would, of > > > > >> course, be better at thinking through development at the shorter > > > > >> timescale of ontogeny). > > > > >> > > > > >> I'd love to hear others' thoughts on those who have studied > > activities > > > > >> that can begin to shed light on these ecologies of development > > > > >> (particularly at the longer timescale). Any thoughts/suggestions? > I > > > > >> would imagine this work considering various kinds of institutions > > that > > > > >> run the gamut - from venture capitalist firms to non-profits to > > > > >> governmental institutions to institutions of higher education. I > > would > > > > >> presume that each of these kinds of institutions would have a > local > > > > >> ecology within which they work, but I am tempted to imagine some > > kind > > > > >> of global meta-ecology (perhaps Marx's "global > > > > >> capitalism"?) within which each of these local ecologies operates. > > I'd > > > > >> be curious about actual research that has been done documenting > the > > > > >> nature of these ecologies - e.g., what kinds of resources are > > > > >> available to be exploited? What kinds of possibilities are there > for > > > > >> different forms of life? What institutional organisms can thrive? > > > > >> Which are dying off? (and just to be clear, I am intending a > > > > >> biological/evolutionary nature of the metaphor). > > > > >> > > > > >> It seems that this kind of work would be most likely to have been > > done > > > > >> by folks in the CHAT world, but perhaps the scale (of time and > > space) > > > > >> is a bit beyond the scales that CHAT folks prefer to consider? > > > > >> > > > > >> (I should add that I've recently discovered the work of Peter > > > > >> Sloterdijk's Bubbles trilogy and am curious if anyone has any > > thoughts > > > > >> on the value of his approach - it seems to fit very well with Marx > > and > > > > >> with CHAT/Vygotsky, my only initial concern was that he seems to > > fly a > > > > >> little fast and loose with pyschoanalytics at times - not a > serious > > > > >> problem, but perhaps in a few places). > > > > >> > > > > >> Sympathetically, > > > > >> greg > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 1:57 PM, Huw Lloyd < > > huw.softdesigns@gmail.com > > > > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >>> Well, I would say there is more to it than simply > transfer-ability, > > > > >>> which might be thought of as a good bureaucratic requirement. > > Really > > > > >>> what is required is genuine development -- reorganisation of > > thought > > > > >>> and > > > > >> learning. > > > > >>> That is what is significant at a personal level, which is also > the > > > > >>> basis > > > > >> of > > > > >>> insights and creative work (i.e. personal knowledge rather than > > > > >>> second > > > > >> hand > > > > >>> knowledge). The researcher in the blog article does not evince > this > > > > >>> (with allusions to the nature of her training). There is the > > history > > > > >>> school children learn, which largely concerns the use of memory, > > and > > > > >>> then there > > > > >> is > > > > >>> the history of conditions, relations and processes, which > concerns > > > > >>> protracted thought. This developmental emphasis is what is > lacking > > > > >>> in institutions which is why I have frequently pointed it out. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> This principle apples to "secure" jobs too. The jobs I have > walked > > > > >>> away from have been due to the overly narrow scope, where I felt > it > > > > >>> was necessary to be far more ambitious to achieve modest > > > > >>> satisfaction, an ambition which included achieving the wider > scope > > > > >>> within the norms established. Similar issues pertain to my > > > > >>> peripheral engagement with academia. Twenty years ago, after > > > > >>> completing a masters in cognitive > > > > >> science > > > > >>> (a good year), I decided against pursuing any further formal > > > > >>> education > > > > >> with > > > > >>> any immediacy due to my sense that what I was encountering in the > > > > >>> subject (and related subjects) was fundamentally wrong or > > > > >>> inadequate, but I couldn't quite discern what that was. So, for > me, > > > > >>> I had no interest in furthering the academic course at the time, > > > > >>> because I was concerned with understanding, doing, discovering > and > > > > >>> development, not being a "good researcher". I was and am > > > > >>> uninterested in the trappings of academia, what it looks like > from > > > > >>> the outside (with dubious ethics of promoting those in society > who > > > > >>> least need it) -- hence I am not too bothered about where the > > > > >>> experiences come from. After all, if you want sound knowledge > then > > > > >>> it should be validated in places where it counts (in action), not > > in > > > > an echo chamber of words. > > > > >>> > > > > >>>> From my (developmental) perspective academia appears to be > > > > >>>> chockfull of > > > > >>> unproductive thinking. The lack of systems understanding in the > > > > >>> social sciences (which has been pointed out by key persons for > two > > > > >>> generations) > > > > >> I > > > > >>> find to be quite incredible. This, as far as I can see, is the > > > > >>> panacea to the stasis and lethargy that I have seen in certain > > > > >>> institutions, where there are people in secure jobs with no > > interest > > > > >>> in revitalising an institution (perhaps the same people who rely > > > > >>> upon their status for authority). In the UK, in the social > > sciences, > > > > >>> the whole social science infrastructure is built upon a notion of > > > > >>> quality that is ignorant of systems -- that is the degree to > which > > > > >>> unproductive thinking has > > > > >> penetrated > > > > >>> social science. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Yet there is much more to it still. Recently I have also come to > a > > > > >>> surprising awareness that developmental prerogatives have rather > a > > > > >>> significant amount in common with spiritual ones. So I would > offer > > > > >> broader > > > > >>> advice than Michael's of staying clear of hardship. It may be > that > > > > >>> in > > > > >> that > > > > >>> "nadir" something surprising may be discovered. For anyone with a > > > > >>> passion "job security" is not a goal, at best it is a means to an > > > > >>> ends, at worst > > > > >> it > > > > >>> is an obstacle. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Over and out. :) > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Best, > > > > >>> Huw > > > > >>> > > > > >>> On 20 February 2018 at 07:12, Alfredo Jornet Gil > > > > >>> > > > > >>> wrote: > > > > >>> > > > > >>>> Huw, Helena, and all, > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> thanks to you both for taking the discussion where I was hoping > it > > > > >>>> to > > > > >> go > > > > >>>> further: first, towards a reflection on the nature of training > > > > >>>> academic scholars go through as it concerns the classical > problem > > > > >>>> of learning "transfer"; and then, as it regards the question of > > > > >>>> academic freedom > > > > >>> (which > > > > >>>> actually may be the same question, just taken in a language more > > > > >> adequate > > > > >>>> to an ecological understanding of the problem). This is > absolutely > > > > >>>> not > > > > >>> just > > > > >>>> an individual problem. And, on that matter, I should be clear > that > > > > >>>> I > > > > >> am a > > > > >>>> privileged in a privileged land, where, despite all uncertainty > > > > >>>> and > > > > >> pains > > > > >>>> that my family have gone and go through, I have today a good > > > > >>>> background > > > > >>> and > > > > >>>> network, and probably better prospects than the majority of > junior > > > > >>> scholars > > > > >>>> out there. Not that I have earned this privilege for nothing: my > > > > >> migrant > > > > >>>> history and that of my family is all connected to an effort and > > > > >>>> quest > > > > >> to > > > > >>>> get better chances of academic opportunity in this market Helena > > > > >>>> talks about. But my personal story, as that of the historian in > > > > >>>> the article shared or of my French astronomer friend, are > relevant > > > > >>>> in as far as > > > > >> they > > > > >>>> help us reflect on just those questions. They really also make > one > > > > >> wonder > > > > >>>> on the sense of the term "academic freedom", for the latter term > > > > >>>> cannot > > > > >>> be > > > > >>>> about doing whatever research you want to do independently of > some > > > > >> market > > > > >>>> conditions and societal needs and economy. We may then pose the > > > > >>> questions, > > > > >>>> what type of "freedom" is the "freedom" current systems (of > > > > >>>> incentives, > > > > >>> of > > > > >>>> ISI lists) afford, and what type of system could allow for > another > > > > >>> meaning > > > > >>>> of the term "freedom"? > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Not to get too abstract, I guess that those reflections may be > > > > >>>> best pondered along concrete cases, if people is willing to take > > > > >>>> on Helena's suggestion to share particular stories of all that > > > > >>>> goes into getting > > > > >> into > > > > >>>> secured academic job positions, or else, of pursuing > (in)dependent > > > > >>> careers > > > > >>>> outside/at the borders of/across academia. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Alfredo > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> ________________________________________ > > > > >>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > >>>> > > > >>> > > > > >>>> on behalf of Helena Worthen > > > > >>>> Sent: 19 February 2018 19:19 > > > > >>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > > >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> In the interests of widening the discussion: > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> I?ve described my work history before on this list ? basically, > > > > >>>> moving from teaching literature and writing (with stopovers in > > > > >>>> landscape architecture and theater production) to concern about > > > > >>>> the working conditions of teachers, especially academics in > higher > > > > >>>> education, the > > > > >> 75% > > > > >>>> who are contingent/adjuncts. The concern is both for the people > > > > >> employed > > > > >>>> this way and for the integrity of the institutions that employ > > > > >>>> them. I eventually engaged this concern by working with and for > > > > >>>> the labor > > > > >>> movement, > > > > >>>> ending up first working for the garment/apparel workers union in > > > > >>>> Philadelphia and then at the Labor Educaiton Program at the U of > > > > >>> Illinois, > > > > >>>> from which I retired in 2010. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> The new twist to this story is about the employment of academics > > > > >>>> on short-term contracts in Viet Nam, under conditions that seem > to > > > > >>>> be increasingly frequent in the ?developing? world, where the > > > > >>>> market for education is booming. University World News > http://www > > . > > > > >>>> universityworldnews.com/ tracks this phenomenon and includes > > > > >> occasinal > > > > >>>> critical articles about the competition for rankings. The > > > > >>>> university > > > > >>> where > > > > >>>> my husband and I have been teaching on and off since 2015, Ton > Duc > > > > >> Thang > > > > >>> in > > > > >>>> Ho Chi Minh City, recruits professors from all over the world > with > > > > >>>> a promise of $2,000 per month US ? but extending their contracts > > > > >>>> depends > > > > >> on > > > > >>>> producing articles published in journals on the ISI list; the > > > > >>>> nature of this list is worth taking a look at. The impact of > this > > > > >>>> practice on the culture and student body is not all bad. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> My point here is to place the issue of the challenge of getting > a > > > > >>>> tenure-track job in a global context. This is not just an > > > > >>>> individual problem. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> I?m willing to go further down this line of discussion. However, > > > > >>> academics > > > > >>>> are often reluctant to reveal and compare their working > conditions > > > > >>>> on > > > > >> an > > > > >>>> ?academic? discussion list. Maybe by putting up the issue of > what > > > > >>> academic > > > > >>>> freedom requires, and how these requirements fare in the global > > > > >>>> market > > > > >>> for > > > > >>>> higher education, we can shed the embarassment of revealing > > > > >>>> information about our own experiences with getting the brass > ring > > > > >>>> of a full-time, secure job. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Let?s see if anyone picks up on this. Maybe I?m being too vague. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Helena Worthen > > > > >>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com > > > > >>>> Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 > > > > >>>> Blog US/ Viet Nam: > > > > >>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > > > >>>> skype: helena.worthen1 > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>>> On Feb 19, 2018, at 9:19 AM, Huw Lloyd > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>> wrote: > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> The article describes accumulating large amounts of knowledge > > > > >>> pertaining > > > > >>>> to > > > > >>>>> history, which (the author maintains) cannot be turned to other > > > > >>>> endeavours. > > > > >>>>> This, no doubt, is true for her. If, however, her approach to > > > > >> studying > > > > >>>>> history had been systemic, then there would have been a > powerful > > > > >>>>> form > > > > >>> of > > > > >>>>> re-application and continuity in any work that was turned to. > > > > >>>>> Perhaps > > > > >>> the > > > > >>>>> same can be said for "phd/postdoc training". If it cannot be > > > > >>>>> reused > > > > >> or > > > > >>>>> isn't enabling, what, substantively, is it? > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Best, > > > > >>>>> Huw > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> On 18 February 2018 at 18:32, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > > > > >> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > > > > >>>>> wrote: > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Really inspiring words and work, Francine. I do see community > > > > >> colleges > > > > >>>> and > > > > >>>>>> many other educational settings apart from universities as > > > > >>>>>> really > > > > >>>> valuable > > > > >>>>>> and exciting opportunities; the PhD and following postdoc etc > > > > >> training > > > > >>>> in > > > > >>>>>> universities, however, tend to be very much targeted towards a > > > > >>>>>> very > > > > >>>> narrow > > > > >>>>>> spectrum of positions, or at least that's been my experience. > I > > > > >>>>>> am > > > > >>> very > > > > >>>>>> happy that this thread may widen that scope and make visible > > > > >>>>>> other > > > > >>>> paths. > > > > >>>>>> And as Mike suggested, it would be very interesting to hear > > > > >>>>>> from > > > > >>> several > > > > >>>>>> others who have followed distinct trajectories apart from the > > > > >>>>>> phd-postdoc-assist/assoc. prof-prof, and yet made a career in > > > > >>>>>> touch > > > > >>> with > > > > >>>>>> most of what was developed in the junior (phd and few later) > > > years. > > > > >>>>>> Thanks! > > > > >>>>>> Alfredo > > > > >>>>>> ________________________________________ > > > > >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > > > >>> edu> > > > > >>>>>> on behalf of Larry Smolucha > > > > >>>>>> Sent: 18 February 2018 06:20 > > > > >>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > > >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Message from Francine Smolucha on a scholar's life with or > > > > >>>>>> without > > > > >>>> academia > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Alfredo, > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> There are other jobs that pay well (sometimes with tenure and > > > > >>>>>> early retirement benefits) - besides professorships at four > > > > >>>>>> year colleges > > > > >>> and > > > > >>>>>> universities. Administrative and support staff positions pay > > > well. > > > > >>> And > > > > >>>>>> don't overlook community colleges, technical colleges, and > > > > >>>>>> public > > > > >>> grade > > > > >>>>>> schools and high schools. There is also the private sector and > > > > >>>> government > > > > >>>>>> jobs. > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> As a 'low status' community college professor, I managed to > > > > >> translate > > > > >>>>>> Vygotsky's > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> overlooked writings on creativity (back in the 1980's) and > > > > >> introduced > > > > >>>> his > > > > >>>>>> theory of creativity to academia. I got early retirement at > > > > >>>>>> age 53 > > > > >>> and > > > > >>>>>> continue to write and publish. While my Ph.D from the > > > > >>>>>> University of > > > > >>>> Chicago > > > > >>>>>> gave me academic bona fides, it was the quality of the > > > > >>>>>> scholarly > > > > >> work > > > > >>>> that > > > > >>>>>> ultimately mattered. > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> I was always inspired by the harsh circumstances of Vygotsky's > > > > >>>>>> life > > > > >>> and > > > > >>>>>> how he still kept on writing. > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> [When I felt really sorry for myself, I would actually say > > > > >>>>>> "Well at > > > > >>>> least > > > > >>>>>> I am not coughing up blood"] > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> So many of his works were not published in his lifetime, he > did > > > not > > > > >>>>>> collect a royalties check, and they say he was depressed at > > the > > > > >> end > > > > >>>> of > > > > >>>>>> his life. > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> I leave you with this quote from an ancient Sufi mystic - > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> You can't always get what you want but you can get what you > > > > >>>>>> need > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> . > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> ________________________________ > > > > >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > > > >>> edu> > > > > >>>>>> on behalf of mike cole > > > > >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:07 PM > > > > >>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > > >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Yours is a quandary shared by your generation, Alfredo. > > > > >>>>>> Being allowed to teach and conduct research in a quality > > > > >>>>>> institution > > > > >>> is > > > > >>>> a > > > > >>>>>> great privilege and an > > > > >>>>>> increasingly rarer possibility. > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> There are several people on this list who have organized their > > > > >>>>>> lives > > > > >>> to > > > > >>>> be > > > > >>>>>> independent scholars > > > > >>>>>> while staying connected to the core institutions of > > > > >>>>>> disciplinary > > > > >>>> training. > > > > >>>>>> It might be nice to hear > > > > >>>>>> the variety out there. > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> It appears pretty certain that the situation is going to get > > > > >>>>>> worse before/if it gets better. > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> What can the collective experience of xmca come up with that > > > > >>>>>> would > > > > >> be > > > > >>>>>> useful to the many > > > > >>>>>> of you caught in this meat grinder? > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> mike > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > > > > >>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > > > > >>>>>> wrote: > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> Good luck then, Wagner! > > > > >>>>>>> A > > > > >>>>>>> ________________________________________ > > > > >>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > >> > > > >>> edu > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit > > > > >>>>>>> Sent: 18 February 2018 01:07 > > > > >>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity > > > > >>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> This just hit me in the spot... > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> Wagner > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2018 9:48 PM, "Alfredo Jornet Gil" > > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>> > > > > >>>>>> wrote: > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> I have not been able to contribute to this list as much as > > > > >>>>>>>> I'd > > > > >> like > > > > >>> to > > > > >>>>>>>> lately, among other things, because I need to find a job, > and > > > > >>>>>>>> I > > > > >> need > > > > >>>> to > > > > >>>>>>>> make sure that I have checked all those boxes that selection > > > > >>>> committees > > > > >>>>>>>> will check (enough first-authored publications? in good > > > > >>>>>>>> enough > > > > >>>>>> journals? > > > > >>>>>>>> enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? > > > > >>>>>>>> acquiring > > > > >>> funds? > > > > >>>>>>> more > > > > >>>>>>>> than all others candidates? and more than > > > > >>> favoured-for-whatever-other- > > > > >>>>>>> reasons > > > > >>>>>>>> candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these weeks to > > > > >>>>>>>> fill > > > > >> up > > > > >>> a > > > > >>>>>>>> competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> And, although I did not think that it was particularly well > > > > >> written, > > > > >>>> it > > > > >>>>>>>> was both relieving and discouraging to read this article > (see > > > > >>>>>>>> link > > > > >>>>>> below, > > > > >>>>>>>> which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague who I > > > > >>>>>>>> think > > > > >> also > > > > >>>>>>>> subscribes this list). The article makes visible the pain > > > > >>>>>>>> scholars > > > > >>> go > > > > >>>>>>>> through when, after so many years of digging and digging and > > > > >>> digging a > > > > >>>>>>>> little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to leave it and > > > > >>>>>>>> find > > > > >>> some > > > > >>>>>>> other > > > > >>>>>>>> thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer who was > > > > >>>>>>>> moving > > > > >>>>>> through > > > > >>>>>>>> the world with his lovely family, short-term project after > > > > >>> short-term > > > > >>>>>>>> project, getting better and better at what he worked on > > > > >> (apparently > > > > >>> he > > > > >>>>>>> was > > > > >>>>>>>> among the few who had expertise in computer modeling > > > > >>>>>>>> simulating > > > > >> some > > > > >>>>>>>> astronomic events) , and finally having to step out academia > > > > >>>>>>>> last > > > > >>> year > > > > >>>>>> to > > > > >>>>>>>> find something else to do, for his family no longer could > > > > >>>>>>>> stand > > > > >> the > > > > >>>>>>>> constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be me soon. > And > > > > >>>>>>>> that > > > > >>> may > > > > >>>>>>> not > > > > >>>>>>>> be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the story > > > > >>>>>>>> seems to > > > > >> be > > > > >>>>>>> quite > > > > >>>>>>>> endemic to academia and may be interesting to some of you: > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Loses- > When/24 > > > > >>>>>>>> 2560 > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> Alfredo > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> -- > > > > >> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > > > > >> Assistant Professor > > > > >> Department of Anthropology > > > > >> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > > > > >> Brigham Young University > > > > >> Provo, UT 84602 > > > > >> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu > > > > >> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > > > Assistant Professor > > > Department of Anthropology > > > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > > > Brigham Young University > > > Provo, UT 84602 > > > WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu > > > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > > > > > > -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson From wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com Wed Feb 28 16:33:14 2018 From: wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com (Wolff-Michael Roth) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2018 16:33:14 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In-Reply-To: References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> <1518914964416.39650@iped.uio.no> <1518978734957.93647@iped.uio.no> <87FCF1E0-1B28-4F92-A85C-9E5A10424B74@gmail.com> <1519110745104.46827@iped.uio.no> <1519598399026.36406@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AD5C72@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> Message-ID: Greg, not all people will think being publishing machines. Some, like myself, enjoy spending many hours a day writing, analyzing etc. and turning all of this into peer-reviewed articles. I referred to my earliest experience before, when I was told I would not make tenure; and I felt I would not be able to make the 2 articles or so per year in high quality journals. But after an absence from academia, it changed. I started doing research for myself initially, and then wrote it up. From then on, it was different, writing was something I wanted to do, and the more I did, the better I got at it. (Not that the peer-review process would have gotten easier.) I do admit, though, that the system as set up right now then tends to reward people who publish more than others, and in "better" journals. And it depends on context. In the department that I am affiliated with, there are people promoted and tenured without at least a handful of articles in commonly recognized journals. And if you are happy with an average increase in your salary, you don't have to get stressed in our place either. Michael On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 4:04 PM, Greg Thompson wrote: > I once toyed with the idea of "slow scholarship" and I remain entirely > convinced that this is a virtue. But once I was entered into the > competition/race of academia, it was all about how fast you can get to the > finish line (aka "publications"). > > Perhaps there is something good about this (assuming that it is better to > publish something than to not publish anything), but it also has the > nefarious effect of turning scholars into cogs in publishing factories. > > And, continuing in this cynical spirit, I might add that the Science > article about "Slow" actually seems to be making the same case for speed - > maybe it isn't a sprint, but it is still a race and first one to the finish > line wins, so you better pick up the pace! Fast! > > And re: the man whispering in his ear as he runs: > "We see how in this way the mode of production and the means of production > are continually transformed, revolutionised, *how the division of labour is > necessarily followed by greater divisions of labour, the application of > machinery by still greater application of machinery, work on a large scale > by work on a still larger scale.* > > "That is the law which again and again throws bourgeois production out of > its old course and which compels capital to intensify the productive forces > of labour, *because *it has intensified them, it, the law which gives > capital no rest and continually whispers in its ear: 'Go on! Go on!'" > (Marx - Wage Labour and Capital). > > -greg? > > On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 3:11 PM, Wolff-Michael Roth < > wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Hi all, > > this article "In praise of slow" appears to be fitting the discussion. > The > > author uses a nice analogy with running. Michael > > http://science.sciencemag.org/content/359/6375/602 > > > > On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 8:40 AM, Huw Lloyd > > wrote: > > > > > "Assessing their abilities and accomplishments in this regard was a > > matter > > > of judgment and so could not be quantified; it could be exercised only > by > > > those capable of it." > > > > > > I would say, "cannot be quantified simply". > > > > > > Best, > > > Huw > > > > > > On 26 February 2018 at 15:05, Greg Thompson > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > And here is a nice article that speaks to the bureaucratic logic > that I > > > was > > > > mentioning (the author refers to "the all-administrative > institution"): > > > > https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/whose-university-is-it-anyway/#! > > > > > > > > A quote from it: > > > > "The revolution is over and the administrators have won. But the > > > > persistence of traditional structures and language has led some to > > think > > > > that the fight over the institution is now just beginning. This is a > > > > mistake. As with most revolutions, open conflict occurs only after > real > > > > power has already changed hands." > > > > > > > > -greg > > > > > > > > On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 6:27 PM, Martin Packer > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > On STEM and social science: > > > > > > > > > > < > > > > doctors-revolt-bernard-lown.html?action=click&pgtype= > > > > > Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col- > > > > > left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav= > > > > > opinion-c-col-left-region > > > > 02/24/opinion/sunday/doctors-revolt-bernard-lown.html? > > > > > action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading& > > > > > module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c-col- > > > > > left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region>>> > > > > > > > > > > On measures of learning: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > measure-learning-outcomes.html?action=click&pgtype= > > > > > Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col- > > > > > left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav= > > > > > opinion-c-col-left-region > > > > 02/23/opinion/sunday/colleges-measure-learning-outcomes. > > > > > html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story- > > > > > heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c- > > > > > col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region>> > > > > > > > > > > Martin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 25, 2018, at 8:15 PM, Glassman, Michael < > > glassman.13@osu.edu> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Huw, > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps the opposite is also true though. STEM researchers can > > > better > > > > > understand what they are doing if they are well versed in the > social > > > > > sciences. Understand the history and the meaning of what they are > > doing > > > > so > > > > > they do not act as androids (sorry, been watching the Aliens > trilogy > > of > > > > > late). Perhaps we made the wrong calculation. We have lost control > of > > > our > > > > > great STEM innovations because the people using them don't > understand > > > the > > > > > social webs that they create. So we have people pushing xMOOCs > > > (whatever > > > > > happened to MOOCs anyway) as saving education (and also a bundle so > > > > > everybody gets tax cuts, wheeee!), saying that they are good > because > > > they > > > > > can reach many, the proverbial long tail, with great education > > > (Harvard, > > > > > Stanford). Yet nobody asks the question, "Why is this a good > thing." > > > > There > > > > > really isn't much supporting this in earlier distance education. > > There > > > > is > > > > > actually more evidence of how dangerous it is (Participatory Action > > > > > Research). > > > > > > > > > > > > Michael > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > > > > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Huw Lloyd > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2018 7:32 PM > > > > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > > > > > > > > > I would ask, what makes you think you have an ecology (or niche)? > > It > > > > > seems that the notion of topologically derived ecologies is still > > > bandied > > > > > about since Bronfenbrenner (1977), though I do not know whether he > > > > managed > > > > > to refine (overhaul and improve) his notions into something > > integrated > > > > and > > > > > agent-centric. One does not provide an ecology or an environment. > The > > > > > environment is different for everyone, a simple consideration of a > > > > > rock-face or climbing wall is sufficient to grasp this -- the so > > called > > > > > environment (the rock face) is different to each climber, their > > > > environment > > > > > is that which is appropriate to them which includes contexts well > > > beyond > > > > > what is established in an institution. From what I can gauge, > > > > historically, > > > > > slack was deliberately introduced into courses to afford personal > > > > enquiry. > > > > > > There was the basic work and then there was the genuine enquiry. > > Who > > > in > > > > > their right mind wants to write an exam essay on a question they > are > > > > > expected to pre-write and repeat by memory? Why would someone who > > > enjoys > > > > > thinking about their subject want to go through that kind of > > > impoverished > > > > > tedium? These systems are obviously geared for "delivery". > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps the biggest cultural shift can be achieved through > > > instituting > > > > > joint and personal enquiry. A teacher that stands before their > class > > > and > > > > > delivers their subject inevitably obscures and obstructs the > process > > of > > > > > enquiry, although many students will have learnt from a young age > > that > > > > this > > > > > is what to expect and demand. Engagement with genuine problems > rather > > > > than > > > > > what students are expected to do is the basic orientational issue. > > > > Dispose > > > > > of grades, then anyone who isn't interested is free to go home. > > > > > > > > > > > > The advance of STEM research is probably a good thing for social > > > > science. > > > > > > For productive work, social science must understand the structure > > of > > > > > STEM based work, in addition to bureaucratic processes and > > > circumstances > > > > > for creative work. Sticking one's head in the sand over STEM-like > > > > research > > > > > serves merely to perpetuate the impoverished side of social > science. > > It > > > > > reminds me of the scene in Pirsig's Zen and the Art of Motorcycle > > > > > Maintenance in which a couple lack the wherewithal to fix a > dripping > > > > faucet > > > > > that gives them grief and instead choose to ignore it. Though it > was > > a > > > > very > > > > > long time ago, Pirsig's book may have contributed to my > understanding > > > of > > > > > quality and might be thought of as an exploration of some social > > issues > > > > > pertaining to technical enterprises. Another good text to > appreciate > > > > > quality more directly, probably outside the formal area of STEM, is > > > > > Alshuller's Innovation Algorithm. > > > > > > > > > > > > Warm regards to you Henry, Greg, Alfredo. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > Huw > > > > > > > > > > > > On 25 February 2018 at 22:39, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > > > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >> Greg, Huw, and others, I do often get worried that in the > formals > > > and > > > > > >> informal meetings at our department (department of education), > > > > > >> conversations tend to focus on the "micro" developments that you > > > > > >> mention (students, grades, getting a next grant, getting that > > paper > > > > > >> published, making sure you've got enough) most of the time, and > > not > > > so > > > > > >> much on what society we would like to have, and how our > > institution > > > > > >> could/should contribute to that. I do not have any suggestions > on > > > the > > > > > >> type of studies that you ask about?dealing with how ecologies of > > > > > >> scholarship in academia lead to given developmental > dynamics?other > > > > > >> than the classical studies in STS, like Latour & Woolgar's on > > > > > >> laboratory life, or S. L. Star's. But when I look forward at > what > > > lies > > > > > >> between me (or anyone in my institution) and a change in the way > > > this > > > > > >> institution has impact in the life of many, what I see is lots > of > > > > > >> routines, habits, documents, and paperwork entangled in the > > middle, > > > > > >> such that the idea "mediation all the way through" makes all the > > > > > >> sense. And seeing things that way (from the ecological > > perspective), > > > > > >> makes the possibility of changing things to look actually > > feasible, > > > or > > > > > >> more accurately perhaps, imagine-able. I'd like to continue > being > > > part > > > > > >> of the ecology to be able to be also be part of its changing > it. I > > > > > >> hope others will bring more specific literature to bear. I am > > > already > > > > > downloading some of Peter Sloterdijk's to read. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Alfredo > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> ________________________________________ > > > > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > > >> on behalf of Greg Thompson > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Sent: 24 February 2018 17:45 > > > > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > > >> > > > > > >> I appreciate Huw's concern about academia and the push to orient > > to > > > a > > > > > >> broader and more systemic concern with "development". I think > that > > > > > >> this is what institutions of higher education are supposed to > > have, > > > > > >> right? - at the very least a concern for the development of > > > individual > > > > > >> "students", but also, one would hope, a concern for > "development" > > > at a > > > > > >> longer timescale (e.g., how to be a better society, a better > > world). > > > > > >> They certainly tout these in their promo materials. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> And yet, in practice, these institutions often fall back on > > > > > >> bureaucratic or economic logics. Bureaucratic logic goes > something > > > > > >> like, "just publish (in "good" (i.e., high impact factor) > > journals), > > > > > >> who cares what you publish so long as we can count it to > determine > > > its > > > > > (and your) 'value'(!)". > > > > > >> > > > > > >> As for the economic logic, I was just talking with Rick Shweder > > the > > > > > >> other day about this issue and he expressed the concern about > the > > > push > > > > > >> towards STEM education at the expense of all else and the way > that > > > > > >> STEM buildings are slowly starting to take over his campus (the > > > > > >> University of Chicago - a place that was long held to be a hold > > out > > > of > > > > > >> liberal arts education - apparently they now have an engineering > > > > > >> program). He suggested that this is tied to an early 80's court > > > > > >> decision that gave universities ownership of patents developed > on > > > > their > > > > > campuses. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> To my mind, this calls to mind a concern with ecologies of > > > development > > > > > >> (across the shorter and longer timescales). What are the > ecologies > > > > > >> (social, economic, political, etc.) within which development (at > > > these > > > > > >> various > > > > > >> timescales) occurs in our world today? This is really a question > > of > > > > > >> what is possible and/or what is likely with regard to becoming. > > What > > > > > >> are the forms of life and forms of development that are > > sustainable > > > > > >> given the larger ecologies in which that development happens? > > > > > >> > > > > > >> And for thinking through that problem, I've had a hard time > > thinking > > > > > >> of anyone who has better thought through this problem than Marx > - > > at > > > > > >> the longer timescale of development, that is (Vygotsky would, of > > > > > >> course, be better at thinking through development at the shorter > > > > > >> timescale of ontogeny). > > > > > >> > > > > > >> I'd love to hear others' thoughts on those who have studied > > > activities > > > > > >> that can begin to shed light on these ecologies of development > > > > > >> (particularly at the longer timescale). Any > thoughts/suggestions? > > I > > > > > >> would imagine this work considering various kinds of > institutions > > > that > > > > > >> run the gamut - from venture capitalist firms to non-profits to > > > > > >> governmental institutions to institutions of higher education. I > > > would > > > > > >> presume that each of these kinds of institutions would have a > > local > > > > > >> ecology within which they work, but I am tempted to imagine some > > > kind > > > > > >> of global meta-ecology (perhaps Marx's "global > > > > > >> capitalism"?) within which each of these local ecologies > operates. > > > I'd > > > > > >> be curious about actual research that has been done documenting > > the > > > > > >> nature of these ecologies - e.g., what kinds of resources are > > > > > >> available to be exploited? What kinds of possibilities are there > > for > > > > > >> different forms of life? What institutional organisms can > thrive? > > > > > >> Which are dying off? (and just to be clear, I am intending a > > > > > >> biological/evolutionary nature of the metaphor). > > > > > >> > > > > > >> It seems that this kind of work would be most likely to have > been > > > done > > > > > >> by folks in the CHAT world, but perhaps the scale (of time and > > > space) > > > > > >> is a bit beyond the scales that CHAT folks prefer to consider? > > > > > >> > > > > > >> (I should add that I've recently discovered the work of Peter > > > > > >> Sloterdijk's Bubbles trilogy and am curious if anyone has any > > > thoughts > > > > > >> on the value of his approach - it seems to fit very well with > Marx > > > and > > > > > >> with CHAT/Vygotsky, my only initial concern was that he seems to > > > fly a > > > > > >> little fast and loose with pyschoanalytics at times - not a > > serious > > > > > >> problem, but perhaps in a few places). > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Sympathetically, > > > > > >> greg > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 1:57 PM, Huw Lloyd < > > > huw.softdesigns@gmail.com > > > > > > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > >>> Well, I would say there is more to it than simply > > transfer-ability, > > > > > >>> which might be thought of as a good bureaucratic requirement. > > > Really > > > > > >>> what is required is genuine development -- reorganisation of > > > thought > > > > > >>> and > > > > > >> learning. > > > > > >>> That is what is significant at a personal level, which is also > > the > > > > > >>> basis > > > > > >> of > > > > > >>> insights and creative work (i.e. personal knowledge rather than > > > > > >>> second > > > > > >> hand > > > > > >>> knowledge). The researcher in the blog article does not evince > > this > > > > > >>> (with allusions to the nature of her training). There is the > > > history > > > > > >>> school children learn, which largely concerns the use of > memory, > > > and > > > > > >>> then there > > > > > >> is > > > > > >>> the history of conditions, relations and processes, which > > concerns > > > > > >>> protracted thought. This developmental emphasis is what is > > lacking > > > > > >>> in institutions which is why I have frequently pointed it out. > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> This principle apples to "secure" jobs too. The jobs I have > > walked > > > > > >>> away from have been due to the overly narrow scope, where I > felt > > it > > > > > >>> was necessary to be far more ambitious to achieve modest > > > > > >>> satisfaction, an ambition which included achieving the wider > > scope > > > > > >>> within the norms established. Similar issues pertain to my > > > > > >>> peripheral engagement with academia. Twenty years ago, after > > > > > >>> completing a masters in cognitive > > > > > >> science > > > > > >>> (a good year), I decided against pursuing any further formal > > > > > >>> education > > > > > >> with > > > > > >>> any immediacy due to my sense that what I was encountering in > the > > > > > >>> subject (and related subjects) was fundamentally wrong or > > > > > >>> inadequate, but I couldn't quite discern what that was. So, for > > me, > > > > > >>> I had no interest in furthering the academic course at the > time, > > > > > >>> because I was concerned with understanding, doing, discovering > > and > > > > > >>> development, not being a "good researcher". I was and am > > > > > >>> uninterested in the trappings of academia, what it looks like > > from > > > > > >>> the outside (with dubious ethics of promoting those in society > > who > > > > > >>> least need it) -- hence I am not too bothered about where the > > > > > >>> experiences come from. After all, if you want sound knowledge > > then > > > > > >>> it should be validated in places where it counts (in action), > not > > > in > > > > > an echo chamber of words. > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>>> From my (developmental) perspective academia appears to be > > > > > >>>> chockfull of > > > > > >>> unproductive thinking. The lack of systems understanding in the > > > > > >>> social sciences (which has been pointed out by key persons for > > two > > > > > >>> generations) > > > > > >> I > > > > > >>> find to be quite incredible. This, as far as I can see, is the > > > > > >>> panacea to the stasis and lethargy that I have seen in certain > > > > > >>> institutions, where there are people in secure jobs with no > > > interest > > > > > >>> in revitalising an institution (perhaps the same people who > rely > > > > > >>> upon their status for authority). In the UK, in the social > > > sciences, > > > > > >>> the whole social science infrastructure is built upon a notion > of > > > > > >>> quality that is ignorant of systems -- that is the degree to > > which > > > > > >>> unproductive thinking has > > > > > >> penetrated > > > > > >>> social science. > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> Yet there is much more to it still. Recently I have also come > to > > a > > > > > >>> surprising awareness that developmental prerogatives have > rather > > a > > > > > >>> significant amount in common with spiritual ones. So I would > > offer > > > > > >> broader > > > > > >>> advice than Michael's of staying clear of hardship. It may be > > that > > > > > >>> in > > > > > >> that > > > > > >>> "nadir" something surprising may be discovered. For anyone > with a > > > > > >>> passion "job security" is not a goal, at best it is a means to > an > > > > > >>> ends, at worst > > > > > >> it > > > > > >>> is an obstacle. > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> Over and out. :) > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> Best, > > > > > >>> Huw > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> On 20 February 2018 at 07:12, Alfredo Jornet Gil > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> wrote: > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>>> Huw, Helena, and all, > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> thanks to you both for taking the discussion where I was > hoping > > it > > > > > >>>> to > > > > > >> go > > > > > >>>> further: first, towards a reflection on the nature of training > > > > > >>>> academic scholars go through as it concerns the classical > > problem > > > > > >>>> of learning "transfer"; and then, as it regards the question > of > > > > > >>>> academic freedom > > > > > >>> (which > > > > > >>>> actually may be the same question, just taken in a language > more > > > > > >> adequate > > > > > >>>> to an ecological understanding of the problem). This is > > absolutely > > > > > >>>> not > > > > > >>> just > > > > > >>>> an individual problem. And, on that matter, I should be clear > > that > > > > > >>>> I > > > > > >> am a > > > > > >>>> privileged in a privileged land, where, despite all > uncertainty > > > > > >>>> and > > > > > >> pains > > > > > >>>> that my family have gone and go through, I have today a good > > > > > >>>> background > > > > > >>> and > > > > > >>>> network, and probably better prospects than the majority of > > junior > > > > > >>> scholars > > > > > >>>> out there. Not that I have earned this privilege for nothing: > my > > > > > >> migrant > > > > > >>>> history and that of my family is all connected to an effort > and > > > > > >>>> quest > > > > > >> to > > > > > >>>> get better chances of academic opportunity in this market > Helena > > > > > >>>> talks about. But my personal story, as that of the historian > in > > > > > >>>> the article shared or of my French astronomer friend, are > > relevant > > > > > >>>> in as far as > > > > > >> they > > > > > >>>> help us reflect on just those questions. They really also make > > one > > > > > >> wonder > > > > > >>>> on the sense of the term "academic freedom", for the latter > term > > > > > >>>> cannot > > > > > >>> be > > > > > >>>> about doing whatever research you want to do independently of > > some > > > > > >> market > > > > > >>>> conditions and societal needs and economy. We may then pose > the > > > > > >>> questions, > > > > > >>>> what type of "freedom" is the "freedom" current systems (of > > > > > >>>> incentives, > > > > > >>> of > > > > > >>>> ISI lists) afford, and what type of system could allow for > > another > > > > > >>> meaning > > > > > >>>> of the term "freedom"? > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> Not to get too abstract, I guess that those reflections may be > > > > > >>>> best pondered along concrete cases, if people is willing to > take > > > > > >>>> on Helena's suggestion to share particular stories of all that > > > > > >>>> goes into getting > > > > > >> into > > > > > >>>> secured academic job positions, or else, of pursuing > > (in)dependent > > > > > >>> careers > > > > > >>>> outside/at the borders of/across academia. > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> Alfredo > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> ________________________________________ > > > > > >>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > > >>>> > > > > >>> > > > > > >>>> on behalf of Helena Worthen > > > > > >>>> Sent: 19 February 2018 19:19 > > > > > >>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > > > >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> In the interests of widening the discussion: > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> I?ve described my work history before on this list ? > basically, > > > > > >>>> moving from teaching literature and writing (with stopovers in > > > > > >>>> landscape architecture and theater production) to concern > about > > > > > >>>> the working conditions of teachers, especially academics in > > higher > > > > > >>>> education, the > > > > > >> 75% > > > > > >>>> who are contingent/adjuncts. The concern is both for the > people > > > > > >> employed > > > > > >>>> this way and for the integrity of the institutions that employ > > > > > >>>> them. I eventually engaged this concern by working with and > for > > > > > >>>> the labor > > > > > >>> movement, > > > > > >>>> ending up first working for the garment/apparel workers union > in > > > > > >>>> Philadelphia and then at the Labor Educaiton Program at the U > of > > > > > >>> Illinois, > > > > > >>>> from which I retired in 2010. > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> The new twist to this story is about the employment of > academics > > > > > >>>> on short-term contracts in Viet Nam, under conditions that > seem > > to > > > > > >>>> be increasingly frequent in the ?developing? world, where the > > > > > >>>> market for education is booming. University World News > > http://www > > > . > > > > > >>>> universityworldnews.com/ tracks this phenomenon and includes > > > > > >> occasinal > > > > > >>>> critical articles about the competition for rankings. The > > > > > >>>> university > > > > > >>> where > > > > > >>>> my husband and I have been teaching on and off since 2015, Ton > > Duc > > > > > >> Thang > > > > > >>> in > > > > > >>>> Ho Chi Minh City, recruits professors from all over the world > > with > > > > > >>>> a promise of $2,000 per month US ? but extending their > contracts > > > > > >>>> depends > > > > > >> on > > > > > >>>> producing articles published in journals on the ISI list; the > > > > > >>>> nature of this list is worth taking a look at. The impact of > > this > > > > > >>>> practice on the culture and student body is not all bad. > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> My point here is to place the issue of the challenge of > getting > > a > > > > > >>>> tenure-track job in a global context. This is not just an > > > > > >>>> individual problem. > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> I?m willing to go further down this line of discussion. > However, > > > > > >>> academics > > > > > >>>> are often reluctant to reveal and compare their working > > conditions > > > > > >>>> on > > > > > >> an > > > > > >>>> ?academic? discussion list. Maybe by putting up the issue of > > what > > > > > >>> academic > > > > > >>>> freedom requires, and how these requirements fare in the > global > > > > > >>>> market > > > > > >>> for > > > > > >>>> higher education, we can shed the embarassment of revealing > > > > > >>>> information about our own experiences with getting the brass > > ring > > > > > >>>> of a full-time, secure job. > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> Let?s see if anyone picks up on this. Maybe I?m being too > vague. > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> Helena Worthen > > > > > >>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com > > > > > >>>> Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 > > > > > >>>> Blog US/ Viet Nam: > > > > > >>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > > > > >>>> skype: helena.worthen1 > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>>> On Feb 19, 2018, at 9:19 AM, Huw Lloyd > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>> wrote: > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> The article describes accumulating large amounts of knowledge > > > > > >>> pertaining > > > > > >>>> to > > > > > >>>>> history, which (the author maintains) cannot be turned to > other > > > > > >>>> endeavours. > > > > > >>>>> This, no doubt, is true for her. If, however, her approach to > > > > > >> studying > > > > > >>>>> history had been systemic, then there would have been a > > powerful > > > > > >>>>> form > > > > > >>> of > > > > > >>>>> re-application and continuity in any work that was turned to. > > > > > >>>>> Perhaps > > > > > >>> the > > > > > >>>>> same can be said for "phd/postdoc training". If it cannot be > > > > > >>>>> reused > > > > > >> or > > > > > >>>>> isn't enabling, what, substantively, is it? > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Best, > > > > > >>>>> Huw > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> On 18 February 2018 at 18:32, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > > > > > >> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > > > > > >>>>> wrote: > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> Really inspiring words and work, Francine. I do see > community > > > > > >> colleges > > > > > >>>> and > > > > > >>>>>> many other educational settings apart from universities as > > > > > >>>>>> really > > > > > >>>> valuable > > > > > >>>>>> and exciting opportunities; the PhD and following postdoc > etc > > > > > >> training > > > > > >>>> in > > > > > >>>>>> universities, however, tend to be very much targeted > towards a > > > > > >>>>>> very > > > > > >>>> narrow > > > > > >>>>>> spectrum of positions, or at least that's been my > experience. > > I > > > > > >>>>>> am > > > > > >>> very > > > > > >>>>>> happy that this thread may widen that scope and make visible > > > > > >>>>>> other > > > > > >>>> paths. > > > > > >>>>>> And as Mike suggested, it would be very interesting to hear > > > > > >>>>>> from > > > > > >>> several > > > > > >>>>>> others who have followed distinct trajectories apart from > the > > > > > >>>>>> phd-postdoc-assist/assoc. prof-prof, and yet made a career > in > > > > > >>>>>> touch > > > > > >>> with > > > > > >>>>>> most of what was developed in the junior (phd and few later) > > > > years. > > > > > >>>>>> Thanks! > > > > > >>>>>> Alfredo > > > > > >>>>>> ________________________________________ > > > > > >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > > > > > >>> edu> > > > > > >>>>>> on behalf of Larry Smolucha > > > > > >>>>>> Sent: 18 February 2018 06:20 > > > > > >>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > > > >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> Message from Francine Smolucha on a scholar's life with or > > > > > >>>>>> without > > > > > >>>> academia > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> Alfredo, > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> There are other jobs that pay well (sometimes with tenure > and > > > > > >>>>>> early retirement benefits) - besides professorships at four > > > > > >>>>>> year colleges > > > > > >>> and > > > > > >>>>>> universities. Administrative and support staff positions > pay > > > > well. > > > > > >>> And > > > > > >>>>>> don't overlook community colleges, technical colleges, and > > > > > >>>>>> public > > > > > >>> grade > > > > > >>>>>> schools and high schools. There is also the private sector > and > > > > > >>>> government > > > > > >>>>>> jobs. > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> As a 'low status' community college professor, I managed to > > > > > >> translate > > > > > >>>>>> Vygotsky's > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> overlooked writings on creativity (back in the 1980's) and > > > > > >> introduced > > > > > >>>> his > > > > > >>>>>> theory of creativity to academia. I got early retirement at > > > > > >>>>>> age 53 > > > > > >>> and > > > > > >>>>>> continue to write and publish. While my Ph.D from the > > > > > >>>>>> University of > > > > > >>>> Chicago > > > > > >>>>>> gave me academic bona fides, it was the quality of the > > > > > >>>>>> scholarly > > > > > >> work > > > > > >>>> that > > > > > >>>>>> ultimately mattered. > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> I was always inspired by the harsh circumstances of > Vygotsky's > > > > > >>>>>> life > > > > > >>> and > > > > > >>>>>> how he still kept on writing. > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> [When I felt really sorry for myself, I would actually say > > > > > >>>>>> "Well at > > > > > >>>> least > > > > > >>>>>> I am not coughing up blood"] > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> So many of his works were not published in his lifetime, he > > did > > > > not > > > > > >>>>>> collect a royalties check, and they say he was depressed > at > > > the > > > > > >> end > > > > > >>>> of > > > > > >>>>>> his life. > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> I leave you with this quote from an ancient Sufi mystic - > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> You can't always get what you want but you can get what you > > > > > >>>>>> need > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> . > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> ________________________________ > > > > > >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > > > > > >>> edu> > > > > > >>>>>> on behalf of mike cole > > > > > >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:07 PM > > > > > >>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > > > >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> Yours is a quandary shared by your generation, Alfredo. > > > > > >>>>>> Being allowed to teach and conduct research in a quality > > > > > >>>>>> institution > > > > > >>> is > > > > > >>>> a > > > > > >>>>>> great privilege and an > > > > > >>>>>> increasingly rarer possibility. > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> There are several people on this list who have organized > their > > > > > >>>>>> lives > > > > > >>> to > > > > > >>>> be > > > > > >>>>>> independent scholars > > > > > >>>>>> while staying connected to the core institutions of > > > > > >>>>>> disciplinary > > > > > >>>> training. > > > > > >>>>>> It might be nice to hear > > > > > >>>>>> the variety out there. > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> It appears pretty certain that the situation is going to get > > > > > >>>>>> worse before/if it gets better. > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> What can the collective experience of xmca come up with that > > > > > >>>>>> would > > > > > >> be > > > > > >>>>>> useful to the many > > > > > >>>>>> of you caught in this meat grinder? > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> mike > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > > > > > >>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > > > > > >>>>>> wrote: > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>> Good luck then, Wagner! > > > > > >>>>>>> A > > > > > >>>>>>> ________________________________________ > > > > > >>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > > >> > > > > >>> edu > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>> on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit > > > > > >>>>>>> Sent: 18 February 2018 01:07 > > > > > >>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity > > > > > >>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>> This just hit me in the spot... > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>> Wagner > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2018 9:48 PM, "Alfredo Jornet Gil" > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>> > > > > > >>>>>> wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>> I have not been able to contribute to this list as much as > > > > > >>>>>>>> I'd > > > > > >> like > > > > > >>> to > > > > > >>>>>>>> lately, among other things, because I need to find a job, > > and > > > > > >>>>>>>> I > > > > > >> need > > > > > >>>> to > > > > > >>>>>>>> make sure that I have checked all those boxes that > selection > > > > > >>>> committees > > > > > >>>>>>>> will check (enough first-authored publications? in good > > > > > >>>>>>>> enough > > > > > >>>>>> journals? > > > > > >>>>>>>> enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? > > > > > >>>>>>>> acquiring > > > > > >>> funds? > > > > > >>>>>>> more > > > > > >>>>>>>> than all others candidates? and more than > > > > > >>> favoured-for-whatever-other- > > > > > >>>>>>> reasons > > > > > >>>>>>>> candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these weeks > to > > > > > >>>>>>>> fill > > > > > >> up > > > > > >>> a > > > > > >>>>>>>> competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>> And, although I did not think that it was particularly > well > > > > > >> written, > > > > > >>>> it > > > > > >>>>>>>> was both relieving and discouraging to read this article > > (see > > > > > >>>>>>>> link > > > > > >>>>>> below, > > > > > >>>>>>>> which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague who I > > > > > >>>>>>>> think > > > > > >> also > > > > > >>>>>>>> subscribes this list). The article makes visible the pain > > > > > >>>>>>>> scholars > > > > > >>> go > > > > > >>>>>>>> through when, after so many years of digging and digging > and > > > > > >>> digging a > > > > > >>>>>>>> little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to leave it > and > > > > > >>>>>>>> find > > > > > >>> some > > > > > >>>>>>> other > > > > > >>>>>>>> thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer who was > > > > > >>>>>>>> moving > > > > > >>>>>> through > > > > > >>>>>>>> the world with his lovely family, short-term project after > > > > > >>> short-term > > > > > >>>>>>>> project, getting better and better at what he worked on > > > > > >> (apparently > > > > > >>> he > > > > > >>>>>>> was > > > > > >>>>>>>> among the few who had expertise in computer modeling > > > > > >>>>>>>> simulating > > > > > >> some > > > > > >>>>>>>> astronomic events) , and finally having to step out > academia > > > > > >>>>>>>> last > > > > > >>> year > > > > > >>>>>> to > > > > > >>>>>>>> find something else to do, for his family no longer could > > > > > >>>>>>>> stand > > > > > >> the > > > > > >>>>>>>> constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be me soon. > > And > > > > > >>>>>>>> that > > > > > >>> may > > > > > >>>>>>> not > > > > > >>>>>>>> be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the story > > > > > >>>>>>>> seems to > > > > > >> be > > > > > >>>>>>> quite > > > > > >>>>>>>> endemic to academia and may be interesting to some of you: > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>> https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Loses- > > When/24 > > > > > >>>>>>>> 2560 > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>> Alfredo > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> -- > > > > > >> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > > > > > >> Assistant Professor > > > > > >> Department of Anthropology > > > > > >> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > > > > > >> Brigham Young University > > > > > >> Provo, UT 84602 > > > > > >> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu > > > > > >> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > > > > Assistant Professor > > > > Department of Anthropology > > > > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > > > > Brigham Young University > > > > Provo, UT 84602 > > > > WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu > > > > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > From mcole@ucsd.edu Wed Feb 28 17:20:17 2018 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2018 17:20:17 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In-Reply-To: References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> <1518914964416.39650@iped.uio.no> <1518978734957.93647@iped.uio.no> <87FCF1E0-1B28-4F92-A85C-9E5A10424B74@gmail.com> <1519110745104.46827@iped.uio.no> <1519598399026.36406@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AD5C72@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> Message-ID: Some fare better than others in the system that Greg points us to. The phrase that all that's solid turns into air comes to mind. There is certainly something to slow science. I believe that Jean Lave initiated such a center a few years ago at Berkeley, although I am not sure of its current status. mike On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 4:33 PM, Wolff-Michael Roth < wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com> wrote: > Greg, not all people will think being publishing machines. Some, like > myself, enjoy spending many hours a day writing, analyzing etc. and turning > all of this into peer-reviewed articles. > > I referred to my earliest experience before, when I was told I would not > make tenure; and I felt I would not be able to make the 2 articles or so > per year in high quality journals. > > But after an absence from academia, it changed. I started doing research > for myself initially, and then wrote it up. From then on, it was different, > writing was something I wanted to do, and the more I did, the better I got > at it. (Not that the peer-review process would have gotten easier.) > > I do admit, though, that the system as set up right now then tends to > reward people who publish more than others, and in "better" journals. > > And it depends on context. In the department that I am affiliated with, > there are people promoted and tenured without at least a handful of > articles in commonly recognized journals. And if you are happy with an > average increase in your salary, you don't have to get stressed in our > place either. > > Michael > > > > > On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 4:04 PM, Greg Thompson > wrote: > > > I once toyed with the idea of "slow scholarship" and I remain entirely > > convinced that this is a virtue. But once I was entered into the > > competition/race of academia, it was all about how fast you can get to > the > > finish line (aka "publications"). > > > > Perhaps there is something good about this (assuming that it is better to > > publish something than to not publish anything), but it also has the > > nefarious effect of turning scholars into cogs in publishing factories. > > > > And, continuing in this cynical spirit, I might add that the Science > > article about "Slow" actually seems to be making the same case for speed > - > > maybe it isn't a sprint, but it is still a race and first one to the > finish > > line wins, so you better pick up the pace! Fast! > > > > And re: the man whispering in his ear as he runs: > > "We see how in this way the mode of production and the means of > production > > are continually transformed, revolutionised, *how the division of labour > is > > necessarily followed by greater divisions of labour, the application of > > machinery by still greater application of machinery, work on a large > scale > > by work on a still larger scale.* > > > > "That is the law which again and again throws bourgeois production out of > > its old course and which compels capital to intensify the productive > forces > > of labour, *because *it has intensified them, it, the law which gives > > capital no rest and continually whispers in its ear: 'Go on! Go on!'" > > (Marx - Wage Labour and Capital). > > > > -greg? > > > > On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 3:11 PM, Wolff-Michael Roth < > > wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > Hi all, > > > this article "In praise of slow" appears to be fitting the discussion. > > The > > > author uses a nice analogy with running. Michael > > > http://science.sciencemag.org/content/359/6375/602 > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 8:40 AM, Huw Lloyd > > > wrote: > > > > > > > "Assessing their abilities and accomplishments in this regard was a > > > matter > > > > of judgment and so could not be quantified; it could be exercised > only > > by > > > > those capable of it." > > > > > > > > I would say, "cannot be quantified simply". > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > Huw > > > > > > > > On 26 February 2018 at 15:05, Greg Thompson < > greg.a.thompson@gmail.com > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > And here is a nice article that speaks to the bureaucratic logic > > that I > > > > was > > > > > mentioning (the author refers to "the all-administrative > > institution"): > > > > > https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/whose-university-is- > it-anyway/#! > > > > > > > > > > A quote from it: > > > > > "The revolution is over and the administrators have won. But the > > > > > persistence of traditional structures and language has led some to > > > think > > > > > that the fight over the institution is now just beginning. This is > a > > > > > mistake. As with most revolutions, open conflict occurs only after > > real > > > > > power has already changed hands." > > > > > > > > > > -greg > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 6:27 PM, Martin Packer > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > On STEM and social science: > > > > > > > > > > > > < > > > > > doctors-revolt-bernard-lown.html?action=click&pgtype= > > > > > > Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col- > > > > > > left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav= > > > > > > opinion-c-col-left-region > > > > > 02/24/opinion/sunday/doctors-revolt-bernard-lown.html? > > > > > > action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading& > > > > > > module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c-col- > > > > > > left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > On measures of learning: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > measure-learning-outcomes.html?action=click&pgtype= > > > > > > Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col- > > > > > > left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav= > > > > > > opinion-c-col-left-region > > > > > 02/23/opinion/sunday/colleges-measure-learning-outcomes. > > > > > > html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story- > > > > > > heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c- > > > > > > col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Martin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 25, 2018, at 8:15 PM, Glassman, Michael < > > > glassman.13@osu.edu> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Huw, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps the opposite is also true though. STEM researchers can > > > > better > > > > > > understand what they are doing if they are well versed in the > > social > > > > > > sciences. Understand the history and the meaning of what they are > > > doing > > > > > so > > > > > > they do not act as androids (sorry, been watching the Aliens > > trilogy > > > of > > > > > > late). Perhaps we made the wrong calculation. We have lost > control > > of > > > > our > > > > > > great STEM innovations because the people using them don't > > understand > > > > the > > > > > > social webs that they create. So we have people pushing xMOOCs > > > > (whatever > > > > > > happened to MOOCs anyway) as saving education (and also a bundle > so > > > > > > everybody gets tax cuts, wheeee!), saying that they are good > > because > > > > they > > > > > > can reach many, the proverbial long tail, with great education > > > > (Harvard, > > > > > > Stanford). Yet nobody asks the question, "Why is this a good > > thing." > > > > > There > > > > > > really isn't much supporting this in earlier distance education. > > > There > > > > > is > > > > > > actually more evidence of how dangerous it is (Participatory > Action > > > > > > Research). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Michael > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > > > > > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Huw Lloyd > > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2018 7:32 PM > > > > > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > > > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would ask, what makes you think you have an ecology (or > niche)? > > > It > > > > > > seems that the notion of topologically derived ecologies is still > > > > bandied > > > > > > about since Bronfenbrenner (1977), though I do not know whether > he > > > > > managed > > > > > > to refine (overhaul and improve) his notions into something > > > integrated > > > > > and > > > > > > agent-centric. One does not provide an ecology or an environment. > > The > > > > > > environment is different for everyone, a simple consideration of > a > > > > > > rock-face or climbing wall is sufficient to grasp this -- the so > > > called > > > > > > environment (the rock face) is different to each climber, their > > > > > environment > > > > > > is that which is appropriate to them which includes contexts well > > > > beyond > > > > > > what is established in an institution. From what I can gauge, > > > > > historically, > > > > > > slack was deliberately introduced into courses to afford personal > > > > > enquiry. > > > > > > > There was the basic work and then there was the genuine > enquiry. > > > Who > > > > in > > > > > > their right mind wants to write an exam essay on a question they > > are > > > > > > expected to pre-write and repeat by memory? Why would someone who > > > > enjoys > > > > > > thinking about their subject want to go through that kind of > > > > impoverished > > > > > > tedium? These systems are obviously geared for "delivery". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps the biggest cultural shift can be achieved through > > > > instituting > > > > > > joint and personal enquiry. A teacher that stands before their > > class > > > > and > > > > > > delivers their subject inevitably obscures and obstructs the > > process > > > of > > > > > > enquiry, although many students will have learnt from a young age > > > that > > > > > this > > > > > > is what to expect and demand. Engagement with genuine problems > > rather > > > > > than > > > > > > what students are expected to do is the basic orientational > issue. > > > > > Dispose > > > > > > of grades, then anyone who isn't interested is free to go home. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The advance of STEM research is probably a good thing for > social > > > > > science. > > > > > > > For productive work, social science must understand the > structure > > > of > > > > > > STEM based work, in addition to bureaucratic processes and > > > > circumstances > > > > > > for creative work. Sticking one's head in the sand over STEM-like > > > > > research > > > > > > serves merely to perpetuate the impoverished side of social > > science. > > > It > > > > > > reminds me of the scene in Pirsig's Zen and the Art of Motorcycle > > > > > > Maintenance in which a couple lack the wherewithal to fix a > > dripping > > > > > faucet > > > > > > that gives them grief and instead choose to ignore it. Though it > > was > > > a > > > > > very > > > > > > long time ago, Pirsig's book may have contributed to my > > understanding > > > > of > > > > > > quality and might be thought of as an exploration of some social > > > issues > > > > > > pertaining to technical enterprises. Another good text to > > appreciate > > > > > > quality more directly, probably outside the formal area of STEM, > is > > > > > > Alshuller's Innovation Algorithm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Warm regards to you Henry, Greg, Alfredo. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > > Huw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 25 February 2018 at 22:39, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > > > > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Greg, Huw, and others, I do often get worried that in the > > formals > > > > and > > > > > > >> informal meetings at our department (department of education), > > > > > > >> conversations tend to focus on the "micro" developments that > you > > > > > > >> mention (students, grades, getting a next grant, getting that > > > paper > > > > > > >> published, making sure you've got enough) most of the time, > and > > > not > > > > so > > > > > > >> much on what society we would like to have, and how our > > > institution > > > > > > >> could/should contribute to that. I do not have any suggestions > > on > > > > the > > > > > > >> type of studies that you ask about?dealing with how ecologies > of > > > > > > >> scholarship in academia lead to given developmental > > dynamics?other > > > > > > >> than the classical studies in STS, like Latour & Woolgar's on > > > > > > >> laboratory life, or S. L. Star's. But when I look forward at > > what > > > > lies > > > > > > >> between me (or anyone in my institution) and a change in the > way > > > > this > > > > > > >> institution has impact in the life of many, what I see is lots > > of > > > > > > >> routines, habits, documents, and paperwork entangled in the > > > middle, > > > > > > >> such that the idea "mediation all the way through" makes all > the > > > > > > >> sense. And seeing things that way (from the ecological > > > perspective), > > > > > > >> makes the possibility of changing things to look actually > > > feasible, > > > > or > > > > > > >> more accurately perhaps, imagine-able. I'd like to continue > > being > > > > part > > > > > > >> of the ecology to be able to be also be part of its changing > > it. I > > > > > > >> hope others will bring more specific literature to bear. I am > > > > already > > > > > > downloading some of Peter Sloterdijk's to read. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Alfredo > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> ________________________________________ > > > > > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > > > >> on behalf of Greg Thompson > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Sent: 24 February 2018 17:45 > > > > > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > > > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> I appreciate Huw's concern about academia and the push to > orient > > > to > > > > a > > > > > > >> broader and more systemic concern with "development". I think > > that > > > > > > >> this is what institutions of higher education are supposed to > > > have, > > > > > > >> right? - at the very least a concern for the development of > > > > individual > > > > > > >> "students", but also, one would hope, a concern for > > "development" > > > > at a > > > > > > >> longer timescale (e.g., how to be a better society, a better > > > world). > > > > > > >> They certainly tout these in their promo materials. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> And yet, in practice, these institutions often fall back on > > > > > > >> bureaucratic or economic logics. Bureaucratic logic goes > > something > > > > > > >> like, "just publish (in "good" (i.e., high impact factor) > > > journals), > > > > > > >> who cares what you publish so long as we can count it to > > determine > > > > its > > > > > > (and your) 'value'(!)". > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> As for the economic logic, I was just talking with Rick > Shweder > > > the > > > > > > >> other day about this issue and he expressed the concern about > > the > > > > push > > > > > > >> towards STEM education at the expense of all else and the way > > that > > > > > > >> STEM buildings are slowly starting to take over his campus > (the > > > > > > >> University of Chicago - a place that was long held to be a > hold > > > out > > > > of > > > > > > >> liberal arts education - apparently they now have an > engineering > > > > > > >> program). He suggested that this is tied to an early 80's > court > > > > > > >> decision that gave universities ownership of patents developed > > on > > > > > their > > > > > > campuses. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> To my mind, this calls to mind a concern with ecologies of > > > > development > > > > > > >> (across the shorter and longer timescales). What are the > > ecologies > > > > > > >> (social, economic, political, etc.) within which development > (at > > > > these > > > > > > >> various > > > > > > >> timescales) occurs in our world today? This is really a > question > > > of > > > > > > >> what is possible and/or what is likely with regard to > becoming. > > > What > > > > > > >> are the forms of life and forms of development that are > > > sustainable > > > > > > >> given the larger ecologies in which that development happens? > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> And for thinking through that problem, I've had a hard time > > > thinking > > > > > > >> of anyone who has better thought through this problem than > Marx > > - > > > at > > > > > > >> the longer timescale of development, that is (Vygotsky would, > of > > > > > > >> course, be better at thinking through development at the > shorter > > > > > > >> timescale of ontogeny). > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> I'd love to hear others' thoughts on those who have studied > > > > activities > > > > > > >> that can begin to shed light on these ecologies of development > > > > > > >> (particularly at the longer timescale). Any > > thoughts/suggestions? > > > I > > > > > > >> would imagine this work considering various kinds of > > institutions > > > > that > > > > > > >> run the gamut - from venture capitalist firms to non-profits > to > > > > > > >> governmental institutions to institutions of higher > education. I > > > > would > > > > > > >> presume that each of these kinds of institutions would have a > > > local > > > > > > >> ecology within which they work, but I am tempted to imagine > some > > > > kind > > > > > > >> of global meta-ecology (perhaps Marx's "global > > > > > > >> capitalism"?) within which each of these local ecologies > > operates. > > > > I'd > > > > > > >> be curious about actual research that has been done > documenting > > > the > > > > > > >> nature of these ecologies - e.g., what kinds of resources are > > > > > > >> available to be exploited? What kinds of possibilities are > there > > > for > > > > > > >> different forms of life? What institutional organisms can > > thrive? > > > > > > >> Which are dying off? (and just to be clear, I am intending a > > > > > > >> biological/evolutionary nature of the metaphor). > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> It seems that this kind of work would be most likely to have > > been > > > > done > > > > > > >> by folks in the CHAT world, but perhaps the scale (of time and > > > > space) > > > > > > >> is a bit beyond the scales that CHAT folks prefer to consider? > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> (I should add that I've recently discovered the work of Peter > > > > > > >> Sloterdijk's Bubbles trilogy and am curious if anyone has any > > > > thoughts > > > > > > >> on the value of his approach - it seems to fit very well with > > Marx > > > > and > > > > > > >> with CHAT/Vygotsky, my only initial concern was that he seems > to > > > > fly a > > > > > > >> little fast and loose with pyschoanalytics at times - not a > > > serious > > > > > > >> problem, but perhaps in a few places). > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Sympathetically, > > > > > > >> greg > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 1:57 PM, Huw Lloyd < > > > > huw.softdesigns@gmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >>> Well, I would say there is more to it than simply > > > transfer-ability, > > > > > > >>> which might be thought of as a good bureaucratic requirement. > > > > Really > > > > > > >>> what is required is genuine development -- reorganisation of > > > > thought > > > > > > >>> and > > > > > > >> learning. > > > > > > >>> That is what is significant at a personal level, which is > also > > > the > > > > > > >>> basis > > > > > > >> of > > > > > > >>> insights and creative work (i.e. personal knowledge rather > than > > > > > > >>> second > > > > > > >> hand > > > > > > >>> knowledge). The researcher in the blog article does not > evince > > > this > > > > > > >>> (with allusions to the nature of her training). There is the > > > > history > > > > > > >>> school children learn, which largely concerns the use of > > memory, > > > > and > > > > > > >>> then there > > > > > > >> is > > > > > > >>> the history of conditions, relations and processes, which > > > concerns > > > > > > >>> protracted thought. This developmental emphasis is what is > > > lacking > > > > > > >>> in institutions which is why I have frequently pointed it > out. > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> This principle apples to "secure" jobs too. The jobs I have > > > walked > > > > > > >>> away from have been due to the overly narrow scope, where I > > felt > > > it > > > > > > >>> was necessary to be far more ambitious to achieve modest > > > > > > >>> satisfaction, an ambition which included achieving the wider > > > scope > > > > > > >>> within the norms established. Similar issues pertain to my > > > > > > >>> peripheral engagement with academia. Twenty years ago, after > > > > > > >>> completing a masters in cognitive > > > > > > >> science > > > > > > >>> (a good year), I decided against pursuing any further formal > > > > > > >>> education > > > > > > >> with > > > > > > >>> any immediacy due to my sense that what I was encountering in > > the > > > > > > >>> subject (and related subjects) was fundamentally wrong or > > > > > > >>> inadequate, but I couldn't quite discern what that was. So, > for > > > me, > > > > > > >>> I had no interest in furthering the academic course at the > > time, > > > > > > >>> because I was concerned with understanding, doing, > discovering > > > and > > > > > > >>> development, not being a "good researcher". I was and am > > > > > > >>> uninterested in the trappings of academia, what it looks like > > > from > > > > > > >>> the outside (with dubious ethics of promoting those in > society > > > who > > > > > > >>> least need it) -- hence I am not too bothered about where the > > > > > > >>> experiences come from. After all, if you want sound knowledge > > > then > > > > > > >>> it should be validated in places where it counts (in action), > > not > > > > in > > > > > > an echo chamber of words. > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>>> From my (developmental) perspective academia appears to be > > > > > > >>>> chockfull of > > > > > > >>> unproductive thinking. The lack of systems understanding in > the > > > > > > >>> social sciences (which has been pointed out by key persons > for > > > two > > > > > > >>> generations) > > > > > > >> I > > > > > > >>> find to be quite incredible. This, as far as I can see, is > the > > > > > > >>> panacea to the stasis and lethargy that I have seen in > certain > > > > > > >>> institutions, where there are people in secure jobs with no > > > > interest > > > > > > >>> in revitalising an institution (perhaps the same people who > > rely > > > > > > >>> upon their status for authority). In the UK, in the social > > > > sciences, > > > > > > >>> the whole social science infrastructure is built upon a > notion > > of > > > > > > >>> quality that is ignorant of systems -- that is the degree to > > > which > > > > > > >>> unproductive thinking has > > > > > > >> penetrated > > > > > > >>> social science. > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> Yet there is much more to it still. Recently I have also come > > to > > > a > > > > > > >>> surprising awareness that developmental prerogatives have > > rather > > > a > > > > > > >>> significant amount in common with spiritual ones. So I would > > > offer > > > > > > >> broader > > > > > > >>> advice than Michael's of staying clear of hardship. It may be > > > that > > > > > > >>> in > > > > > > >> that > > > > > > >>> "nadir" something surprising may be discovered. For anyone > > with a > > > > > > >>> passion "job security" is not a goal, at best it is a means > to > > an > > > > > > >>> ends, at worst > > > > > > >> it > > > > > > >>> is an obstacle. > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> Over and out. :) > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> Best, > > > > > > >>> Huw > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> On 20 February 2018 at 07:12, Alfredo Jornet Gil > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> wrote: > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>>> Huw, Helena, and all, > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> thanks to you both for taking the discussion where I was > > hoping > > > it > > > > > > >>>> to > > > > > > >> go > > > > > > >>>> further: first, towards a reflection on the nature of > training > > > > > > >>>> academic scholars go through as it concerns the classical > > > problem > > > > > > >>>> of learning "transfer"; and then, as it regards the question > > of > > > > > > >>>> academic freedom > > > > > > >>> (which > > > > > > >>>> actually may be the same question, just taken in a language > > more > > > > > > >> adequate > > > > > > >>>> to an ecological understanding of the problem). This is > > > absolutely > > > > > > >>>> not > > > > > > >>> just > > > > > > >>>> an individual problem. And, on that matter, I should be > clear > > > that > > > > > > >>>> I > > > > > > >> am a > > > > > > >>>> privileged in a privileged land, where, despite all > > uncertainty > > > > > > >>>> and > > > > > > >> pains > > > > > > >>>> that my family have gone and go through, I have today a good > > > > > > >>>> background > > > > > > >>> and > > > > > > >>>> network, and probably better prospects than the majority of > > > junior > > > > > > >>> scholars > > > > > > >>>> out there. Not that I have earned this privilege for > nothing: > > my > > > > > > >> migrant > > > > > > >>>> history and that of my family is all connected to an effort > > and > > > > > > >>>> quest > > > > > > >> to > > > > > > >>>> get better chances of academic opportunity in this market > > Helena > > > > > > >>>> talks about. But my personal story, as that of the historian > > in > > > > > > >>>> the article shared or of my French astronomer friend, are > > > relevant > > > > > > >>>> in as far as > > > > > > >> they > > > > > > >>>> help us reflect on just those questions. They really also > make > > > one > > > > > > >> wonder > > > > > > >>>> on the sense of the term "academic freedom", for the latter > > term > > > > > > >>>> cannot > > > > > > >>> be > > > > > > >>>> about doing whatever research you want to do independently > of > > > some > > > > > > >> market > > > > > > >>>> conditions and societal needs and economy. We may then pose > > the > > > > > > >>> questions, > > > > > > >>>> what type of "freedom" is the "freedom" current systems (of > > > > > > >>>> incentives, > > > > > > >>> of > > > > > > >>>> ISI lists) afford, and what type of system could allow for > > > another > > > > > > >>> meaning > > > > > > >>>> of the term "freedom"? > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> Not to get too abstract, I guess that those reflections may > be > > > > > > >>>> best pondered along concrete cases, if people is willing to > > take > > > > > > >>>> on Helena's suggestion to share particular stories of all > that > > > > > > >>>> goes into getting > > > > > > >> into > > > > > > >>>> secured academic job positions, or else, of pursuing > > > (in)dependent > > > > > > >>> careers > > > > > > >>>> outside/at the borders of/across academia. > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> Alfredo > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> ________________________________________ > > > > > > >>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>>> on behalf of Helena Worthen > > > > > > >>>> Sent: 19 February 2018 19:19 > > > > > > >>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > > > > >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> In the interests of widening the discussion: > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> I?ve described my work history before on this list ? > > basically, > > > > > > >>>> moving from teaching literature and writing (with stopovers > in > > > > > > >>>> landscape architecture and theater production) to concern > > about > > > > > > >>>> the working conditions of teachers, especially academics in > > > higher > > > > > > >>>> education, the > > > > > > >> 75% > > > > > > >>>> who are contingent/adjuncts. The concern is both for the > > people > > > > > > >> employed > > > > > > >>>> this way and for the integrity of the institutions that > employ > > > > > > >>>> them. I eventually engaged this concern by working with and > > for > > > > > > >>>> the labor > > > > > > >>> movement, > > > > > > >>>> ending up first working for the garment/apparel workers > union > > in > > > > > > >>>> Philadelphia and then at the Labor Educaiton Program at the > U > > of > > > > > > >>> Illinois, > > > > > > >>>> from which I retired in 2010. > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> The new twist to this story is about the employment of > > academics > > > > > > >>>> on short-term contracts in Viet Nam, under conditions that > > seem > > > to > > > > > > >>>> be increasingly frequent in the ?developing? world, where > the > > > > > > >>>> market for education is booming. University World News > > > http://www > > > > . > > > > > > >>>> universityworldnews.com/ tracks this phenomenon and > includes > > > > > > >> occasinal > > > > > > >>>> critical articles about the competition for rankings. The > > > > > > >>>> university > > > > > > >>> where > > > > > > >>>> my husband and I have been teaching on and off since 2015, > Ton > > > Duc > > > > > > >> Thang > > > > > > >>> in > > > > > > >>>> Ho Chi Minh City, recruits professors from all over the > world > > > with > > > > > > >>>> a promise of $2,000 per month US ? but extending their > > contracts > > > > > > >>>> depends > > > > > > >> on > > > > > > >>>> producing articles published in journals on the ISI list; > the > > > > > > >>>> nature of this list is worth taking a look at. The impact of > > > this > > > > > > >>>> practice on the culture and student body is not all bad. > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> My point here is to place the issue of the challenge of > > getting > > > a > > > > > > >>>> tenure-track job in a global context. This is not just an > > > > > > >>>> individual problem. > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> I?m willing to go further down this line of discussion. > > However, > > > > > > >>> academics > > > > > > >>>> are often reluctant to reveal and compare their working > > > conditions > > > > > > >>>> on > > > > > > >> an > > > > > > >>>> ?academic? discussion list. Maybe by putting up the issue of > > > what > > > > > > >>> academic > > > > > > >>>> freedom requires, and how these requirements fare in the > > global > > > > > > >>>> market > > > > > > >>> for > > > > > > >>>> higher education, we can shed the embarassment of revealing > > > > > > >>>> information about our own experiences with getting the brass > > > ring > > > > > > >>>> of a full-time, secure job. > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> Let?s see if anyone picks up on this. Maybe I?m being too > > vague. > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> Helena Worthen > > > > > > >>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com > > > > > > >>>> Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 > > > > > > >>>> Blog US/ Viet Nam: > > > > > > >>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > > > > > >>>> skype: helena.worthen1 > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>>> On Feb 19, 2018, at 9:19 AM, Huw Lloyd > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>>> wrote: > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>>>> The article describes accumulating large amounts of > knowledge > > > > > > >>> pertaining > > > > > > >>>> to > > > > > > >>>>> history, which (the author maintains) cannot be turned to > > other > > > > > > >>>> endeavours. > > > > > > >>>>> This, no doubt, is true for her. If, however, her approach > to > > > > > > >> studying > > > > > > >>>>> history had been systemic, then there would have been a > > > powerful > > > > > > >>>>> form > > > > > > >>> of > > > > > > >>>>> re-application and continuity in any work that was turned > to. > > > > > > >>>>> Perhaps > > > > > > >>> the > > > > > > >>>>> same can be said for "phd/postdoc training". If it cannot > be > > > > > > >>>>> reused > > > > > > >> or > > > > > > >>>>> isn't enabling, what, substantively, is it? > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>>>> Best, > > > > > > >>>>> Huw > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>>>> On 18 February 2018 at 18:32, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > > > > > > >> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > > > > > > >>>>> wrote: > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> Really inspiring words and work, Francine. I do see > > community > > > > > > >> colleges > > > > > > >>>> and > > > > > > >>>>>> many other educational settings apart from universities as > > > > > > >>>>>> really > > > > > > >>>> valuable > > > > > > >>>>>> and exciting opportunities; the PhD and following postdoc > > etc > > > > > > >> training > > > > > > >>>> in > > > > > > >>>>>> universities, however, tend to be very much targeted > > towards a > > > > > > >>>>>> very > > > > > > >>>> narrow > > > > > > >>>>>> spectrum of positions, or at least that's been my > > experience. > > > I > > > > > > >>>>>> am > > > > > > >>> very > > > > > > >>>>>> happy that this thread may widen that scope and make > visible > > > > > > >>>>>> other > > > > > > >>>> paths. > > > > > > >>>>>> And as Mike suggested, it would be very interesting to > hear > > > > > > >>>>>> from > > > > > > >>> several > > > > > > >>>>>> others who have followed distinct trajectories apart from > > the > > > > > > >>>>>> phd-postdoc-assist/assoc. prof-prof, and yet made a career > > in > > > > > > >>>>>> touch > > > > > > >>> with > > > > > > >>>>>> most of what was developed in the junior (phd and few > later) > > > > > years. > > > > > > >>>>>> Thanks! > > > > > > >>>>>> Alfredo > > > > > > >>>>>> ________________________________________ > > > > > > >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > > > > > > > >>> edu> > > > > > > >>>>>> on behalf of Larry Smolucha > > > > > > >>>>>> Sent: 18 February 2018 06:20 > > > > > > >>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > > > > >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> Message from Francine Smolucha on a scholar's life with or > > > > > > >>>>>> without > > > > > > >>>> academia > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> Alfredo, > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> There are other jobs that pay well (sometimes with tenure > > and > > > > > > >>>>>> early retirement benefits) - besides professorships at > four > > > > > > >>>>>> year colleges > > > > > > >>> and > > > > > > >>>>>> universities. Administrative and support staff positions > > pay > > > > > well. > > > > > > >>> And > > > > > > >>>>>> don't overlook community colleges, technical colleges, and > > > > > > >>>>>> public > > > > > > >>> grade > > > > > > >>>>>> schools and high schools. There is also the private sector > > and > > > > > > >>>> government > > > > > > >>>>>> jobs. > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> As a 'low status' community college professor, I managed > to > > > > > > >> translate > > > > > > >>>>>> Vygotsky's > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> overlooked writings on creativity (back in the 1980's) and > > > > > > >> introduced > > > > > > >>>> his > > > > > > >>>>>> theory of creativity to academia. I got early retirement > at > > > > > > >>>>>> age 53 > > > > > > >>> and > > > > > > >>>>>> continue to write and publish. While my Ph.D from the > > > > > > >>>>>> University of > > > > > > >>>> Chicago > > > > > > >>>>>> gave me academic bona fides, it was the quality of the > > > > > > >>>>>> scholarly > > > > > > >> work > > > > > > >>>> that > > > > > > >>>>>> ultimately mattered. > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> I was always inspired by the harsh circumstances of > > Vygotsky's > > > > > > >>>>>> life > > > > > > >>> and > > > > > > >>>>>> how he still kept on writing. > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> [When I felt really sorry for myself, I would actually say > > > > > > >>>>>> "Well at > > > > > > >>>> least > > > > > > >>>>>> I am not coughing up blood"] > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> So many of his works were not published in his lifetime, > he > > > did > > > > > not > > > > > > >>>>>> collect a royalties check, and they say he was > depressed > > at > > > > the > > > > > > >> end > > > > > > >>>> of > > > > > > >>>>>> his life. > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> I leave you with this quote from an ancient Sufi mystic - > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> You can't always get what you want but you can get what > you > > > > > > >>>>>> need > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> . > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> ________________________________ > > > > > > >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > > > > > > > >>> edu> > > > > > > >>>>>> on behalf of mike cole > > > > > > >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:07 PM > > > > > > >>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > > > > >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> Yours is a quandary shared by your generation, Alfredo. > > > > > > >>>>>> Being allowed to teach and conduct research in a quality > > > > > > >>>>>> institution > > > > > > >>> is > > > > > > >>>> a > > > > > > >>>>>> great privilege and an > > > > > > >>>>>> increasingly rarer possibility. > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> There are several people on this list who have organized > > their > > > > > > >>>>>> lives > > > > > > >>> to > > > > > > >>>> be > > > > > > >>>>>> independent scholars > > > > > > >>>>>> while staying connected to the core institutions of > > > > > > >>>>>> disciplinary > > > > > > >>>> training. > > > > > > >>>>>> It might be nice to hear > > > > > > >>>>>> the variety out there. > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> It appears pretty certain that the situation is going to > get > > > > > > >>>>>> worse before/if it gets better. > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> What can the collective experience of xmca come up with > that > > > > > > >>>>>> would > > > > > > >> be > > > > > > >>>>>> useful to the many > > > > > > >>>>>> of you caught in this meat grinder? > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> mike > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > > > > > > >>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > > > > > > >>>>>> wrote: > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> Good luck then, Wagner! > > > > > > >>>>>>> A > > > > > > >>>>>>> ________________________________________ > > > > > > >>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > > > >> > > > > > >>> edu > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit > > > > > > > >>>>>>> Sent: 18 February 2018 01:07 > > > > > > >>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity > > > > > > >>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> This just hit me in the spot... > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> Wagner > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2018 9:48 PM, "Alfredo Jornet Gil" > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>>>>> wrote: > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> I have not been able to contribute to this list as much > as > > > > > > >>>>>>>> I'd > > > > > > >> like > > > > > > >>> to > > > > > > >>>>>>>> lately, among other things, because I need to find a > job, > > > and > > > > > > >>>>>>>> I > > > > > > >> need > > > > > > >>>> to > > > > > > >>>>>>>> make sure that I have checked all those boxes that > > selection > > > > > > >>>> committees > > > > > > >>>>>>>> will check (enough first-authored publications? in good > > > > > > >>>>>>>> enough > > > > > > >>>>>> journals? > > > > > > >>>>>>>> enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? > > > > > > >>>>>>>> acquiring > > > > > > >>> funds? > > > > > > >>>>>>> more > > > > > > >>>>>>>> than all others candidates? and more than > > > > > > >>> favoured-for-whatever-other- > > > > > > >>>>>>> reasons > > > > > > >>>>>>>> candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these weeks > > to > > > > > > >>>>>>>> fill > > > > > > >> up > > > > > > >>> a > > > > > > >>>>>>>> competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> And, although I did not think that it was particularly > > well > > > > > > >> written, > > > > > > >>>> it > > > > > > >>>>>>>> was both relieving and discouraging to read this article > > > (see > > > > > > >>>>>>>> link > > > > > > >>>>>> below, > > > > > > >>>>>>>> which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague who I > > > > > > >>>>>>>> think > > > > > > >> also > > > > > > >>>>>>>> subscribes this list). The article makes visible the > pain > > > > > > >>>>>>>> scholars > > > > > > >>> go > > > > > > >>>>>>>> through when, after so many years of digging and digging > > and > > > > > > >>> digging a > > > > > > >>>>>>>> little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to leave it > > and > > > > > > >>>>>>>> find > > > > > > >>> some > > > > > > >>>>>>> other > > > > > > >>>>>>>> thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer who > was > > > > > > >>>>>>>> moving > > > > > > >>>>>> through > > > > > > >>>>>>>> the world with his lovely family, short-term project > after > > > > > > >>> short-term > > > > > > >>>>>>>> project, getting better and better at what he worked on > > > > > > >> (apparently > > > > > > >>> he > > > > > > >>>>>>> was > > > > > > >>>>>>>> among the few who had expertise in computer modeling > > > > > > >>>>>>>> simulating > > > > > > >> some > > > > > > >>>>>>>> astronomic events) , and finally having to step out > > academia > > > > > > >>>>>>>> last > > > > > > >>> year > > > > > > >>>>>> to > > > > > > >>>>>>>> find something else to do, for his family no longer > could > > > > > > >>>>>>>> stand > > > > > > >> the > > > > > > >>>>>>>> constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be me > soon. > > > And > > > > > > >>>>>>>> that > > > > > > >>> may > > > > > > >>>>>>> not > > > > > > >>>>>>>> be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the story > > > > > > >>>>>>>> seems to > > > > > > >> be > > > > > > >>>>>>> quite > > > > > > >>>>>>>> endemic to academia and may be interesting to some of > you: > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Loses- > > > When/24 > > > > > > >>>>>>>> 2560 > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> Alfredo > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> -- > > > > > > >> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > > > > > > >> Assistant Professor > > > > > > >> Department of Anthropology > > > > > > >> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > > > > > > >> Brigham Young University > > > > > > >> Provo, UT 84602 > > > > > > >> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu > > > > > > >> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > > > > > Assistant Professor > > > > > Department of Anthropology > > > > > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > > > > > Brigham Young University > > > > > Provo, UT 84602 > > > > > WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu > > > > > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > > Assistant Professor > > Department of Anthropology > > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > > Brigham Young University > > Provo, UT 84602 > > WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu > > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > > > From greg.a.thompson@gmail.com Wed Feb 28 18:08:25 2018 From: greg.a.thompson@gmail.com (Greg Thompson) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2018 19:08:25 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In-Reply-To: References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> <1518914964416.39650@iped.uio.no> <1518978734957.93647@iped.uio.no> <87FCF1E0-1B28-4F92-A85C-9E5A10424B74@gmail.com> <1519110745104.46827@iped.uio.no> <1519598399026.36406@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AD5C72@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> Message-ID: Yes, Michael, totally agreed. And I see you as a rare exception to the production mill. Whereas you manage to prolifically produce important writings, much of what is published is, to my mind, written too hurriedly and lacks the quality and importance of publications like yours. -greg On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 5:33 PM, Wolff-Michael Roth < wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com> wrote: > Greg, not all people will think being publishing machines. Some, like > myself, enjoy spending many hours a day writing, analyzing etc. and turning > all of this into peer-reviewed articles. > > I referred to my earliest experience before, when I was told I would not > make tenure; and I felt I would not be able to make the 2 articles or so > per year in high quality journals. > > But after an absence from academia, it changed. I started doing research > for myself initially, and then wrote it up. From then on, it was different, > writing was something I wanted to do, and the more I did, the better I got > at it. (Not that the peer-review process would have gotten easier.) > > I do admit, though, that the system as set up right now then tends to > reward people who publish more than others, and in "better" journals. > > And it depends on context. In the department that I am affiliated with, > there are people promoted and tenured without at least a handful of > articles in commonly recognized journals. And if you are happy with an > average increase in your salary, you don't have to get stressed in our > place either. > > Michael > > > > > On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 4:04 PM, Greg Thompson > wrote: > > > I once toyed with the idea of "slow scholarship" and I remain entirely > > convinced that this is a virtue. But once I was entered into the > > competition/race of academia, it was all about how fast you can get to > the > > finish line (aka "publications"). > > > > Perhaps there is something good about this (assuming that it is better to > > publish something than to not publish anything), but it also has the > > nefarious effect of turning scholars into cogs in publishing factories. > > > > And, continuing in this cynical spirit, I might add that the Science > > article about "Slow" actually seems to be making the same case for speed > - > > maybe it isn't a sprint, but it is still a race and first one to the > finish > > line wins, so you better pick up the pace! Fast! > > > > And re: the man whispering in his ear as he runs: > > "We see how in this way the mode of production and the means of > production > > are continually transformed, revolutionised, *how the division of labour > is > > necessarily followed by greater divisions of labour, the application of > > machinery by still greater application of machinery, work on a large > scale > > by work on a still larger scale.* > > > > "That is the law which again and again throws bourgeois production out of > > its old course and which compels capital to intensify the productive > forces > > of labour, *because *it has intensified them, it, the law which gives > > capital no rest and continually whispers in its ear: 'Go on! Go on!'" > > (Marx - Wage Labour and Capital). > > > > -greg? > > > > On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 3:11 PM, Wolff-Michael Roth < > > wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > Hi all, > > > this article "In praise of slow" appears to be fitting the discussion. > > The > > > author uses a nice analogy with running. Michael > > > http://science.sciencemag.org/content/359/6375/602 > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 8:40 AM, Huw Lloyd > > > wrote: > > > > > > > "Assessing their abilities and accomplishments in this regard was a > > > matter > > > > of judgment and so could not be quantified; it could be exercised > only > > by > > > > those capable of it." > > > > > > > > I would say, "cannot be quantified simply". > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > Huw > > > > > > > > On 26 February 2018 at 15:05, Greg Thompson < > greg.a.thompson@gmail.com > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > And here is a nice article that speaks to the bureaucratic logic > > that I > > > > was > > > > > mentioning (the author refers to "the all-administrative > > institution"): > > > > > https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/whose-university-is- > it-anyway/#! > > > > > > > > > > A quote from it: > > > > > "The revolution is over and the administrators have won. But the > > > > > persistence of traditional structures and language has led some to > > > think > > > > > that the fight over the institution is now just beginning. This is > a > > > > > mistake. As with most revolutions, open conflict occurs only after > > real > > > > > power has already changed hands." > > > > > > > > > > -greg > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 6:27 PM, Martin Packer > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > On STEM and social science: > > > > > > > > > > > > < > > > > > doctors-revolt-bernard-lown.html?action=click&pgtype= > > > > > > Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col- > > > > > > left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav= > > > > > > opinion-c-col-left-region > > > > > 02/24/opinion/sunday/doctors-revolt-bernard-lown.html? > > > > > > action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading& > > > > > > module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c-col- > > > > > > left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > On measures of learning: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > measure-learning-outcomes.html?action=click&pgtype= > > > > > > Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col- > > > > > > left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav= > > > > > > opinion-c-col-left-region > > > > > 02/23/opinion/sunday/colleges-measure-learning-outcomes. > > > > > > html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story- > > > > > > heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c- > > > > > > col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Martin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 25, 2018, at 8:15 PM, Glassman, Michael < > > > glassman.13@osu.edu> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Huw, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps the opposite is also true though. STEM researchers can > > > > better > > > > > > understand what they are doing if they are well versed in the > > social > > > > > > sciences. Understand the history and the meaning of what they are > > > doing > > > > > so > > > > > > they do not act as androids (sorry, been watching the Aliens > > trilogy > > > of > > > > > > late). Perhaps we made the wrong calculation. We have lost > control > > of > > > > our > > > > > > great STEM innovations because the people using them don't > > understand > > > > the > > > > > > social webs that they create. So we have people pushing xMOOCs > > > > (whatever > > > > > > happened to MOOCs anyway) as saving education (and also a bundle > so > > > > > > everybody gets tax cuts, wheeee!), saying that they are good > > because > > > > they > > > > > > can reach many, the proverbial long tail, with great education > > > > (Harvard, > > > > > > Stanford). Yet nobody asks the question, "Why is this a good > > thing." > > > > > There > > > > > > really isn't much supporting this in earlier distance education. > > > There > > > > > is > > > > > > actually more evidence of how dangerous it is (Participatory > Action > > > > > > Research). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Michael > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > > > > > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Huw Lloyd > > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2018 7:32 PM > > > > > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > > > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would ask, what makes you think you have an ecology (or > niche)? > > > It > > > > > > seems that the notion of topologically derived ecologies is still > > > > bandied > > > > > > about since Bronfenbrenner (1977), though I do not know whether > he > > > > > managed > > > > > > to refine (overhaul and improve) his notions into something > > > integrated > > > > > and > > > > > > agent-centric. One does not provide an ecology or an environment. > > The > > > > > > environment is different for everyone, a simple consideration of > a > > > > > > rock-face or climbing wall is sufficient to grasp this -- the so > > > called > > > > > > environment (the rock face) is different to each climber, their > > > > > environment > > > > > > is that which is appropriate to them which includes contexts well > > > > beyond > > > > > > what is established in an institution. From what I can gauge, > > > > > historically, > > > > > > slack was deliberately introduced into courses to afford personal > > > > > enquiry. > > > > > > > There was the basic work and then there was the genuine > enquiry. > > > Who > > > > in > > > > > > their right mind wants to write an exam essay on a question they > > are > > > > > > expected to pre-write and repeat by memory? Why would someone who > > > > enjoys > > > > > > thinking about their subject want to go through that kind of > > > > impoverished > > > > > > tedium? These systems are obviously geared for "delivery". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps the biggest cultural shift can be achieved through > > > > instituting > > > > > > joint and personal enquiry. A teacher that stands before their > > class > > > > and > > > > > > delivers their subject inevitably obscures and obstructs the > > process > > > of > > > > > > enquiry, although many students will have learnt from a young age > > > that > > > > > this > > > > > > is what to expect and demand. Engagement with genuine problems > > rather > > > > > than > > > > > > what students are expected to do is the basic orientational > issue. > > > > > Dispose > > > > > > of grades, then anyone who isn't interested is free to go home. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The advance of STEM research is probably a good thing for > social > > > > > science. > > > > > > > For productive work, social science must understand the > structure > > > of > > > > > > STEM based work, in addition to bureaucratic processes and > > > > circumstances > > > > > > for creative work. Sticking one's head in the sand over STEM-like > > > > > research > > > > > > serves merely to perpetuate the impoverished side of social > > science. > > > It > > > > > > reminds me of the scene in Pirsig's Zen and the Art of Motorcycle > > > > > > Maintenance in which a couple lack the wherewithal to fix a > > dripping > > > > > faucet > > > > > > that gives them grief and instead choose to ignore it. Though it > > was > > > a > > > > > very > > > > > > long time ago, Pirsig's book may have contributed to my > > understanding > > > > of > > > > > > quality and might be thought of as an exploration of some social > > > issues > > > > > > pertaining to technical enterprises. Another good text to > > appreciate > > > > > > quality more directly, probably outside the formal area of STEM, > is > > > > > > Alshuller's Innovation Algorithm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Warm regards to you Henry, Greg, Alfredo. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > > Huw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 25 February 2018 at 22:39, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > > > > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Greg, Huw, and others, I do often get worried that in the > > formals > > > > and > > > > > > >> informal meetings at our department (department of education), > > > > > > >> conversations tend to focus on the "micro" developments that > you > > > > > > >> mention (students, grades, getting a next grant, getting that > > > paper > > > > > > >> published, making sure you've got enough) most of the time, > and > > > not > > > > so > > > > > > >> much on what society we would like to have, and how our > > > institution > > > > > > >> could/should contribute to that. I do not have any suggestions > > on > > > > the > > > > > > >> type of studies that you ask about?dealing with how ecologies > of > > > > > > >> scholarship in academia lead to given developmental > > dynamics?other > > > > > > >> than the classical studies in STS, like Latour & Woolgar's on > > > > > > >> laboratory life, or S. L. Star's. But when I look forward at > > what > > > > lies > > > > > > >> between me (or anyone in my institution) and a change in the > way > > > > this > > > > > > >> institution has impact in the life of many, what I see is lots > > of > > > > > > >> routines, habits, documents, and paperwork entangled in the > > > middle, > > > > > > >> such that the idea "mediation all the way through" makes all > the > > > > > > >> sense. And seeing things that way (from the ecological > > > perspective), > > > > > > >> makes the possibility of changing things to look actually > > > feasible, > > > > or > > > > > > >> more accurately perhaps, imagine-able. I'd like to continue > > being > > > > part > > > > > > >> of the ecology to be able to be also be part of its changing > > it. I > > > > > > >> hope others will bring more specific literature to bear. I am > > > > already > > > > > > downloading some of Peter Sloterdijk's to read. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Alfredo > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> ________________________________________ > > > > > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > > > >> on behalf of Greg Thompson > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Sent: 24 February 2018 17:45 > > > > > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > > > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> I appreciate Huw's concern about academia and the push to > orient > > > to > > > > a > > > > > > >> broader and more systemic concern with "development". I think > > that > > > > > > >> this is what institutions of higher education are supposed to > > > have, > > > > > > >> right? - at the very least a concern for the development of > > > > individual > > > > > > >> "students", but also, one would hope, a concern for > > "development" > > > > at a > > > > > > >> longer timescale (e.g., how to be a better society, a better > > > world). > > > > > > >> They certainly tout these in their promo materials. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> And yet, in practice, these institutions often fall back on > > > > > > >> bureaucratic or economic logics. Bureaucratic logic goes > > something > > > > > > >> like, "just publish (in "good" (i.e., high impact factor) > > > journals), > > > > > > >> who cares what you publish so long as we can count it to > > determine > > > > its > > > > > > (and your) 'value'(!)". > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> As for the economic logic, I was just talking with Rick > Shweder > > > the > > > > > > >> other day about this issue and he expressed the concern about > > the > > > > push > > > > > > >> towards STEM education at the expense of all else and the way > > that > > > > > > >> STEM buildings are slowly starting to take over his campus > (the > > > > > > >> University of Chicago - a place that was long held to be a > hold > > > out > > > > of > > > > > > >> liberal arts education - apparently they now have an > engineering > > > > > > >> program). He suggested that this is tied to an early 80's > court > > > > > > >> decision that gave universities ownership of patents developed > > on > > > > > their > > > > > > campuses. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> To my mind, this calls to mind a concern with ecologies of > > > > development > > > > > > >> (across the shorter and longer timescales). What are the > > ecologies > > > > > > >> (social, economic, political, etc.) within which development > (at > > > > these > > > > > > >> various > > > > > > >> timescales) occurs in our world today? This is really a > question > > > of > > > > > > >> what is possible and/or what is likely with regard to > becoming. > > > What > > > > > > >> are the forms of life and forms of development that are > > > sustainable > > > > > > >> given the larger ecologies in which that development happens? > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> And for thinking through that problem, I've had a hard time > > > thinking > > > > > > >> of anyone who has better thought through this problem than > Marx > > - > > > at > > > > > > >> the longer timescale of development, that is (Vygotsky would, > of > > > > > > >> course, be better at thinking through development at the > shorter > > > > > > >> timescale of ontogeny). > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> I'd love to hear others' thoughts on those who have studied > > > > activities > > > > > > >> that can begin to shed light on these ecologies of development > > > > > > >> (particularly at the longer timescale). Any > > thoughts/suggestions? > > > I > > > > > > >> would imagine this work considering various kinds of > > institutions > > > > that > > > > > > >> run the gamut - from venture capitalist firms to non-profits > to > > > > > > >> governmental institutions to institutions of higher > education. I > > > > would > > > > > > >> presume that each of these kinds of institutions would have a > > > local > > > > > > >> ecology within which they work, but I am tempted to imagine > some > > > > kind > > > > > > >> of global meta-ecology (perhaps Marx's "global > > > > > > >> capitalism"?) within which each of these local ecologies > > operates. > > > > I'd > > > > > > >> be curious about actual research that has been done > documenting > > > the > > > > > > >> nature of these ecologies - e.g., what kinds of resources are > > > > > > >> available to be exploited? What kinds of possibilities are > there > > > for > > > > > > >> different forms of life? What institutional organisms can > > thrive? > > > > > > >> Which are dying off? (and just to be clear, I am intending a > > > > > > >> biological/evolutionary nature of the metaphor). > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> It seems that this kind of work would be most likely to have > > been > > > > done > > > > > > >> by folks in the CHAT world, but perhaps the scale (of time and > > > > space) > > > > > > >> is a bit beyond the scales that CHAT folks prefer to consider? > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> (I should add that I've recently discovered the work of Peter > > > > > > >> Sloterdijk's Bubbles trilogy and am curious if anyone has any > > > > thoughts > > > > > > >> on the value of his approach - it seems to fit very well with > > Marx > > > > and > > > > > > >> with CHAT/Vygotsky, my only initial concern was that he seems > to > > > > fly a > > > > > > >> little fast and loose with pyschoanalytics at times - not a > > > serious > > > > > > >> problem, but perhaps in a few places). > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Sympathetically, > > > > > > >> greg > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 1:57 PM, Huw Lloyd < > > > > huw.softdesigns@gmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >>> Well, I would say there is more to it than simply > > > transfer-ability, > > > > > > >>> which might be thought of as a good bureaucratic requirement. > > > > Really > > > > > > >>> what is required is genuine development -- reorganisation of > > > > thought > > > > > > >>> and > > > > > > >> learning. > > > > > > >>> That is what is significant at a personal level, which is > also > > > the > > > > > > >>> basis > > > > > > >> of > > > > > > >>> insights and creative work (i.e. personal knowledge rather > than > > > > > > >>> second > > > > > > >> hand > > > > > > >>> knowledge). The researcher in the blog article does not > evince > > > this > > > > > > >>> (with allusions to the nature of her training). There is the > > > > history > > > > > > >>> school children learn, which largely concerns the use of > > memory, > > > > and > > > > > > >>> then there > > > > > > >> is > > > > > > >>> the history of conditions, relations and processes, which > > > concerns > > > > > > >>> protracted thought. This developmental emphasis is what is > > > lacking > > > > > > >>> in institutions which is why I have frequently pointed it > out. > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> This principle apples to "secure" jobs too. The jobs I have > > > walked > > > > > > >>> away from have been due to the overly narrow scope, where I > > felt > > > it > > > > > > >>> was necessary to be far more ambitious to achieve modest > > > > > > >>> satisfaction, an ambition which included achieving the wider > > > scope > > > > > > >>> within the norms established. Similar issues pertain to my > > > > > > >>> peripheral engagement with academia. Twenty years ago, after > > > > > > >>> completing a masters in cognitive > > > > > > >> science > > > > > > >>> (a good year), I decided against pursuing any further formal > > > > > > >>> education > > > > > > >> with > > > > > > >>> any immediacy due to my sense that what I was encountering in > > the > > > > > > >>> subject (and related subjects) was fundamentally wrong or > > > > > > >>> inadequate, but I couldn't quite discern what that was. So, > for > > > me, > > > > > > >>> I had no interest in furthering the academic course at the > > time, > > > > > > >>> because I was concerned with understanding, doing, > discovering > > > and > > > > > > >>> development, not being a "good researcher". I was and am > > > > > > >>> uninterested in the trappings of academia, what it looks like > > > from > > > > > > >>> the outside (with dubious ethics of promoting those in > society > > > who > > > > > > >>> least need it) -- hence I am not too bothered about where the > > > > > > >>> experiences come from. After all, if you want sound knowledge > > > then > > > > > > >>> it should be validated in places where it counts (in action), > > not > > > > in > > > > > > an echo chamber of words. > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>>> From my (developmental) perspective academia appears to be > > > > > > >>>> chockfull of > > > > > > >>> unproductive thinking. The lack of systems understanding in > the > > > > > > >>> social sciences (which has been pointed out by key persons > for > > > two > > > > > > >>> generations) > > > > > > >> I > > > > > > >>> find to be quite incredible. This, as far as I can see, is > the > > > > > > >>> panacea to the stasis and lethargy that I have seen in > certain > > > > > > >>> institutions, where there are people in secure jobs with no > > > > interest > > > > > > >>> in revitalising an institution (perhaps the same people who > > rely > > > > > > >>> upon their status for authority). In the UK, in the social > > > > sciences, > > > > > > >>> the whole social science infrastructure is built upon a > notion > > of > > > > > > >>> quality that is ignorant of systems -- that is the degree to > > > which > > > > > > >>> unproductive thinking has > > > > > > >> penetrated > > > > > > >>> social science. > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> Yet there is much more to it still. Recently I have also come > > to > > > a > > > > > > >>> surprising awareness that developmental prerogatives have > > rather > > > a > > > > > > >>> significant amount in common with spiritual ones. So I would > > > offer > > > > > > >> broader > > > > > > >>> advice than Michael's of staying clear of hardship. It may be > > > that > > > > > > >>> in > > > > > > >> that > > > > > > >>> "nadir" something surprising may be discovered. For anyone > > with a > > > > > > >>> passion "job security" is not a goal, at best it is a means > to > > an > > > > > > >>> ends, at worst > > > > > > >> it > > > > > > >>> is an obstacle. > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> Over and out. :) > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> Best, > > > > > > >>> Huw > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> On 20 February 2018 at 07:12, Alfredo Jornet Gil > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> wrote: > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>>> Huw, Helena, and all, > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> thanks to you both for taking the discussion where I was > > hoping > > > it > > > > > > >>>> to > > > > > > >> go > > > > > > >>>> further: first, towards a reflection on the nature of > training > > > > > > >>>> academic scholars go through as it concerns the classical > > > problem > > > > > > >>>> of learning "transfer"; and then, as it regards the question > > of > > > > > > >>>> academic freedom > > > > > > >>> (which > > > > > > >>>> actually may be the same question, just taken in a language > > more > > > > > > >> adequate > > > > > > >>>> to an ecological understanding of the problem). This is > > > absolutely > > > > > > >>>> not > > > > > > >>> just > > > > > > >>>> an individual problem. And, on that matter, I should be > clear > > > that > > > > > > >>>> I > > > > > > >> am a > > > > > > >>>> privileged in a privileged land, where, despite all > > uncertainty > > > > > > >>>> and > > > > > > >> pains > > > > > > >>>> that my family have gone and go through, I have today a good > > > > > > >>>> background > > > > > > >>> and > > > > > > >>>> network, and probably better prospects than the majority of > > > junior > > > > > > >>> scholars > > > > > > >>>> out there. Not that I have earned this privilege for > nothing: > > my > > > > > > >> migrant > > > > > > >>>> history and that of my family is all connected to an effort > > and > > > > > > >>>> quest > > > > > > >> to > > > > > > >>>> get better chances of academic opportunity in this market > > Helena > > > > > > >>>> talks about. But my personal story, as that of the historian > > in > > > > > > >>>> the article shared or of my French astronomer friend, are > > > relevant > > > > > > >>>> in as far as > > > > > > >> they > > > > > > >>>> help us reflect on just those questions. They really also > make > > > one > > > > > > >> wonder > > > > > > >>>> on the sense of the term "academic freedom", for the latter > > term > > > > > > >>>> cannot > > > > > > >>> be > > > > > > >>>> about doing whatever research you want to do independently > of > > > some > > > > > > >> market > > > > > > >>>> conditions and societal needs and economy. We may then pose > > the > > > > > > >>> questions, > > > > > > >>>> what type of "freedom" is the "freedom" current systems (of > > > > > > >>>> incentives, > > > > > > >>> of > > > > > > >>>> ISI lists) afford, and what type of system could allow for > > > another > > > > > > >>> meaning > > > > > > >>>> of the term "freedom"? > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> Not to get too abstract, I guess that those reflections may > be > > > > > > >>>> best pondered along concrete cases, if people is willing to > > take > > > > > > >>>> on Helena's suggestion to share particular stories of all > that > > > > > > >>>> goes into getting > > > > > > >> into > > > > > > >>>> secured academic job positions, or else, of pursuing > > > (in)dependent > > > > > > >>> careers > > > > > > >>>> outside/at the borders of/across academia. > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> Alfredo > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> ________________________________________ > > > > > > >>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>>> on behalf of Helena Worthen > > > > > > >>>> Sent: 19 February 2018 19:19 > > > > > > >>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > > > > >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> In the interests of widening the discussion: > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> I?ve described my work history before on this list ? > > basically, > > > > > > >>>> moving from teaching literature and writing (with stopovers > in > > > > > > >>>> landscape architecture and theater production) to concern > > about > > > > > > >>>> the working conditions of teachers, especially academics in > > > higher > > > > > > >>>> education, the > > > > > > >> 75% > > > > > > >>>> who are contingent/adjuncts. The concern is both for the > > people > > > > > > >> employed > > > > > > >>>> this way and for the integrity of the institutions that > employ > > > > > > >>>> them. I eventually engaged this concern by working with and > > for > > > > > > >>>> the labor > > > > > > >>> movement, > > > > > > >>>> ending up first working for the garment/apparel workers > union > > in > > > > > > >>>> Philadelphia and then at the Labor Educaiton Program at the > U > > of > > > > > > >>> Illinois, > > > > > > >>>> from which I retired in 2010. > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> The new twist to this story is about the employment of > > academics > > > > > > >>>> on short-term contracts in Viet Nam, under conditions that > > seem > > > to > > > > > > >>>> be increasingly frequent in the ?developing? world, where > the > > > > > > >>>> market for education is booming. University World News > > > http://www > > > > . > > > > > > >>>> universityworldnews.com/ tracks this phenomenon and > includes > > > > > > >> occasinal > > > > > > >>>> critical articles about the competition for rankings. The > > > > > > >>>> university > > > > > > >>> where > > > > > > >>>> my husband and I have been teaching on and off since 2015, > Ton > > > Duc > > > > > > >> Thang > > > > > > >>> in > > > > > > >>>> Ho Chi Minh City, recruits professors from all over the > world > > > with > > > > > > >>>> a promise of $2,000 per month US ? but extending their > > contracts > > > > > > >>>> depends > > > > > > >> on > > > > > > >>>> producing articles published in journals on the ISI list; > the > > > > > > >>>> nature of this list is worth taking a look at. The impact of > > > this > > > > > > >>>> practice on the culture and student body is not all bad. > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> My point here is to place the issue of the challenge of > > getting > > > a > > > > > > >>>> tenure-track job in a global context. This is not just an > > > > > > >>>> individual problem. > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> I?m willing to go further down this line of discussion. > > However, > > > > > > >>> academics > > > > > > >>>> are often reluctant to reveal and compare their working > > > conditions > > > > > > >>>> on > > > > > > >> an > > > > > > >>>> ?academic? discussion list. Maybe by putting up the issue of > > > what > > > > > > >>> academic > > > > > > >>>> freedom requires, and how these requirements fare in the > > global > > > > > > >>>> market > > > > > > >>> for > > > > > > >>>> higher education, we can shed the embarassment of revealing > > > > > > >>>> information about our own experiences with getting the brass > > > ring > > > > > > >>>> of a full-time, secure job. > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> Let?s see if anyone picks up on this. Maybe I?m being too > > vague. > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> Helena Worthen > > > > > > >>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com > > > > > > >>>> Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 > > > > > > >>>> Blog US/ Viet Nam: > > > > > > >>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > > > > > >>>> skype: helena.worthen1 > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>>> On Feb 19, 2018, at 9:19 AM, Huw Lloyd > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>>> wrote: > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>>>> The article describes accumulating large amounts of > knowledge > > > > > > >>> pertaining > > > > > > >>>> to > > > > > > >>>>> history, which (the author maintains) cannot be turned to > > other > > > > > > >>>> endeavours. > > > > > > >>>>> This, no doubt, is true for her. If, however, her approach > to > > > > > > >> studying > > > > > > >>>>> history had been systemic, then there would have been a > > > powerful > > > > > > >>>>> form > > > > > > >>> of > > > > > > >>>>> re-application and continuity in any work that was turned > to. > > > > > > >>>>> Perhaps > > > > > > >>> the > > > > > > >>>>> same can be said for "phd/postdoc training". If it cannot > be > > > > > > >>>>> reused > > > > > > >> or > > > > > > >>>>> isn't enabling, what, substantively, is it? > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>>>> Best, > > > > > > >>>>> Huw > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>>>> On 18 February 2018 at 18:32, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > > > > > > >> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > > > > > > >>>>> wrote: > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> Really inspiring words and work, Francine. I do see > > community > > > > > > >> colleges > > > > > > >>>> and > > > > > > >>>>>> many other educational settings apart from universities as > > > > > > >>>>>> really > > > > > > >>>> valuable > > > > > > >>>>>> and exciting opportunities; the PhD and following postdoc > > etc > > > > > > >> training > > > > > > >>>> in > > > > > > >>>>>> universities, however, tend to be very much targeted > > towards a > > > > > > >>>>>> very > > > > > > >>>> narrow > > > > > > >>>>>> spectrum of positions, or at least that's been my > > experience. > > > I > > > > > > >>>>>> am > > > > > > >>> very > > > > > > >>>>>> happy that this thread may widen that scope and make > visible > > > > > > >>>>>> other > > > > > > >>>> paths. > > > > > > >>>>>> And as Mike suggested, it would be very interesting to > hear > > > > > > >>>>>> from > > > > > > >>> several > > > > > > >>>>>> others who have followed distinct trajectories apart from > > the > > > > > > >>>>>> phd-postdoc-assist/assoc. prof-prof, and yet made a career > > in > > > > > > >>>>>> touch > > > > > > >>> with > > > > > > >>>>>> most of what was developed in the junior (phd and few > later) > > > > > years. > > > > > > >>>>>> Thanks! > > > > > > >>>>>> Alfredo > > > > > > >>>>>> ________________________________________ > > > > > > >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > > > > > > > >>> edu> > > > > > > >>>>>> on behalf of Larry Smolucha > > > > > > >>>>>> Sent: 18 February 2018 06:20 > > > > > > >>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > > > > >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> Message from Francine Smolucha on a scholar's life with or > > > > > > >>>>>> without > > > > > > >>>> academia > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> Alfredo, > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> There are other jobs that pay well (sometimes with tenure > > and > > > > > > >>>>>> early retirement benefits) - besides professorships at > four > > > > > > >>>>>> year colleges > > > > > > >>> and > > > > > > >>>>>> universities. Administrative and support staff positions > > pay > > > > > well. > > > > > > >>> And > > > > > > >>>>>> don't overlook community colleges, technical colleges, and > > > > > > >>>>>> public > > > > > > >>> grade > > > > > > >>>>>> schools and high schools. There is also the private sector > > and > > > > > > >>>> government > > > > > > >>>>>> jobs. > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> As a 'low status' community college professor, I managed > to > > > > > > >> translate > > > > > > >>>>>> Vygotsky's > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> overlooked writings on creativity (back in the 1980's) and > > > > > > >> introduced > > > > > > >>>> his > > > > > > >>>>>> theory of creativity to academia. I got early retirement > at > > > > > > >>>>>> age 53 > > > > > > >>> and > > > > > > >>>>>> continue to write and publish. While my Ph.D from the > > > > > > >>>>>> University of > > > > > > >>>> Chicago > > > > > > >>>>>> gave me academic bona fides, it was the quality of the > > > > > > >>>>>> scholarly > > > > > > >> work > > > > > > >>>> that > > > > > > >>>>>> ultimately mattered. > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> I was always inspired by the harsh circumstances of > > Vygotsky's > > > > > > >>>>>> life > > > > > > >>> and > > > > > > >>>>>> how he still kept on writing. > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> [When I felt really sorry for myself, I would actually say > > > > > > >>>>>> "Well at > > > > > > >>>> least > > > > > > >>>>>> I am not coughing up blood"] > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> So many of his works were not published in his lifetime, > he > > > did > > > > > not > > > > > > >>>>>> collect a royalties check, and they say he was > depressed > > at > > > > the > > > > > > >> end > > > > > > >>>> of > > > > > > >>>>>> his life. > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> I leave you with this quote from an ancient Sufi mystic - > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> You can't always get what you want but you can get what > you > > > > > > >>>>>> need > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> . > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> ________________________________ > > > > > > >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > > > > > > > >>> edu> > > > > > > >>>>>> on behalf of mike cole > > > > > > >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:07 PM > > > > > > >>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > > > > >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> Yours is a quandary shared by your generation, Alfredo. > > > > > > >>>>>> Being allowed to teach and conduct research in a quality > > > > > > >>>>>> institution > > > > > > >>> is > > > > > > >>>> a > > > > > > >>>>>> great privilege and an > > > > > > >>>>>> increasingly rarer possibility. > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> There are several people on this list who have organized > > their > > > > > > >>>>>> lives > > > > > > >>> to > > > > > > >>>> be > > > > > > >>>>>> independent scholars > > > > > > >>>>>> while staying connected to the core institutions of > > > > > > >>>>>> disciplinary > > > > > > >>>> training. > > > > > > >>>>>> It might be nice to hear > > > > > > >>>>>> the variety out there. > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> It appears pretty certain that the situation is going to > get > > > > > > >>>>>> worse before/if it gets better. > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> What can the collective experience of xmca come up with > that > > > > > > >>>>>> would > > > > > > >> be > > > > > > >>>>>> useful to the many > > > > > > >>>>>> of you caught in this meat grinder? > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> mike > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > > > > > > >>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > > > > > > >>>>>> wrote: > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> Good luck then, Wagner! > > > > > > >>>>>>> A > > > > > > >>>>>>> ________________________________________ > > > > > > >>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > > > >> > > > > > >>> edu > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit > > > > > > > >>>>>>> Sent: 18 February 2018 01:07 > > > > > > >>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity > > > > > > >>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> This just hit me in the spot... > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> Wagner > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2018 9:48 PM, "Alfredo Jornet Gil" > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>>>>> wrote: > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> I have not been able to contribute to this list as much > as > > > > > > >>>>>>>> I'd > > > > > > >> like > > > > > > >>> to > > > > > > >>>>>>>> lately, among other things, because I need to find a > job, > > > and > > > > > > >>>>>>>> I > > > > > > >> need > > > > > > >>>> to > > > > > > >>>>>>>> make sure that I have checked all those boxes that > > selection > > > > > > >>>> committees > > > > > > >>>>>>>> will check (enough first-authored publications? in good > > > > > > >>>>>>>> enough > > > > > > >>>>>> journals? > > > > > > >>>>>>>> enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? > > > > > > >>>>>>>> acquiring > > > > > > >>> funds? > > > > > > >>>>>>> more > > > > > > >>>>>>>> than all others candidates? and more than > > > > > > >>> favoured-for-whatever-other- > > > > > > >>>>>>> reasons > > > > > > >>>>>>>> candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these weeks > > to > > > > > > >>>>>>>> fill > > > > > > >> up > > > > > > >>> a > > > > > > >>>>>>>> competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> And, although I did not think that it was particularly > > well > > > > > > >> written, > > > > > > >>>> it > > > > > > >>>>>>>> was both relieving and discouraging to read this article > > > (see > > > > > > >>>>>>>> link > > > > > > >>>>>> below, > > > > > > >>>>>>>> which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague who I > > > > > > >>>>>>>> think > > > > > > >> also > > > > > > >>>>>>>> subscribes this list). The article makes visible the > pain > > > > > > >>>>>>>> scholars > > > > > > >>> go > > > > > > >>>>>>>> through when, after so many years of digging and digging > > and > > > > > > >>> digging a > > > > > > >>>>>>>> little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to leave it > > and > > > > > > >>>>>>>> find > > > > > > >>> some > > > > > > >>>>>>> other > > > > > > >>>>>>>> thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer who > was > > > > > > >>>>>>>> moving > > > > > > >>>>>> through > > > > > > >>>>>>>> the world with his lovely family, short-term project > after > > > > > > >>> short-term > > > > > > >>>>>>>> project, getting better and better at what he worked on > > > > > > >> (apparently > > > > > > >>> he > > > > > > >>>>>>> was > > > > > > >>>>>>>> among the few who had expertise in computer modeling > > > > > > >>>>>>>> simulating > > > > > > >> some > > > > > > >>>>>>>> astronomic events) , and finally having to step out > > academia > > > > > > >>>>>>>> last > > > > > > >>> year > > > > > > >>>>>> to > > > > > > >>>>>>>> find something else to do, for his family no longer > could > > > > > > >>>>>>>> stand > > > > > > >> the > > > > > > >>>>>>>> constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be me > soon. > > > And > > > > > > >>>>>>>> that > > > > > > >>> may > > > > > > >>>>>>> not > > > > > > >>>>>>>> be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the story > > > > > > >>>>>>>> seems to > > > > > > >> be > > > > > > >>>>>>> quite > > > > > > >>>>>>>> endemic to academia and may be interesting to some of > you: > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Loses- > > > When/24 > > > > > > >>>>>>>> 2560 > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> Alfredo > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> -- > > > > > > >> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > > > > > > >> Assistant Professor > > > > > > >> Department of Anthropology > > > > > > >> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > > > > > > >> Brigham Young University > > > > > > >> Provo, UT 84602 > > > > > > >> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu > > > > > > >> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > > > > > Assistant Professor > > > > > Department of Anthropology > > > > > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > > > > > Brigham Young University > > > > > Provo, UT 84602 > > > > > WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu > > > > > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > > Assistant Professor > > Department of Anthropology > > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > > Brigham Young University > > Provo, UT 84602 > > WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu > > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > > > -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson From greg.a.thompson@gmail.com Wed Feb 28 18:09:46 2018 From: greg.a.thompson@gmail.com (Greg Thompson) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2018 19:09:46 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In-Reply-To: References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> <1518914964416.39650@iped.uio.no> <1518978734957.93647@iped.uio.no> <87FCF1E0-1B28-4F92-A85C-9E5A10424B74@gmail.com> <1519110745104.46827@iped.uio.no> <1519598399026.36406@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AD5C72@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> Message-ID: (oh, and I didn't mean to be exclusive in pointing to Michael's work, there are many others on the list who would fit this description!) On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 7:08 PM, Greg Thompson wrote: > Yes, Michael, totally agreed. And I see you as a rare exception to the > production mill. Whereas you manage to prolifically produce important > writings, much of what is published is, to my mind, written too hurriedly > and lacks the quality and importance of publications like yours. > -greg > > > On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 5:33 PM, Wolff-Michael Roth < > wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Greg, not all people will think being publishing machines. Some, like >> myself, enjoy spending many hours a day writing, analyzing etc. and >> turning >> all of this into peer-reviewed articles. >> >> I referred to my earliest experience before, when I was told I would not >> make tenure; and I felt I would not be able to make the 2 articles or so >> per year in high quality journals. >> >> But after an absence from academia, it changed. I started doing research >> for myself initially, and then wrote it up. From then on, it was >> different, >> writing was something I wanted to do, and the more I did, the better I got >> at it. (Not that the peer-review process would have gotten easier.) >> >> I do admit, though, that the system as set up right now then tends to >> reward people who publish more than others, and in "better" journals. >> >> And it depends on context. In the department that I am affiliated with, >> there are people promoted and tenured without at least a handful of >> articles in commonly recognized journals. And if you are happy with an >> average increase in your salary, you don't have to get stressed in our >> place either. >> >> Michael >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 4:04 PM, Greg Thompson > > >> wrote: >> >> > I once toyed with the idea of "slow scholarship" and I remain entirely >> > convinced that this is a virtue. But once I was entered into the >> > competition/race of academia, it was all about how fast you can get to >> the >> > finish line (aka "publications"). >> > >> > Perhaps there is something good about this (assuming that it is better >> to >> > publish something than to not publish anything), but it also has the >> > nefarious effect of turning scholars into cogs in publishing factories. >> > >> > And, continuing in this cynical spirit, I might add that the Science >> > article about "Slow" actually seems to be making the same case for >> speed - >> > maybe it isn't a sprint, but it is still a race and first one to the >> finish >> > line wins, so you better pick up the pace! Fast! >> > >> > And re: the man whispering in his ear as he runs: >> > "We see how in this way the mode of production and the means of >> production >> > are continually transformed, revolutionised, *how the division of >> labour is >> > necessarily followed by greater divisions of labour, the application of >> > machinery by still greater application of machinery, work on a large >> scale >> > by work on a still larger scale.* >> > >> > "That is the law which again and again throws bourgeois production out >> of >> > its old course and which compels capital to intensify the productive >> forces >> > of labour, *because *it has intensified them, it, the law which gives >> > capital no rest and continually whispers in its ear: 'Go on! Go on!'" >> > (Marx - Wage Labour and Capital). >> > >> > -greg? >> > >> > On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 3:11 PM, Wolff-Michael Roth < >> > wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> > > Hi all, >> > > this article "In praise of slow" appears to be fitting the discussion. >> > The >> > > author uses a nice analogy with running. Michael >> > > http://science.sciencemag.org/content/359/6375/602 >> > > >> > > On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 8:40 AM, Huw Lloyd > > >> > > wrote: >> > > >> > > > "Assessing their abilities and accomplishments in this regard was a >> > > matter >> > > > of judgment and so could not be quantified; it could be exercised >> only >> > by >> > > > those capable of it." >> > > > >> > > > I would say, "cannot be quantified simply". >> > > > >> > > > Best, >> > > > Huw >> > > > >> > > > On 26 February 2018 at 15:05, Greg Thompson < >> greg.a.thompson@gmail.com >> > > >> > > > wrote: >> > > > >> > > > > And here is a nice article that speaks to the bureaucratic logic >> > that I >> > > > was >> > > > > mentioning (the author refers to "the all-administrative >> > institution"): >> > > > > https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/whose-university-is-it- >> anyway/#! >> > > > > >> > > > > A quote from it: >> > > > > "The revolution is over and the administrators have won. But the >> > > > > persistence of traditional structures and language has led some to >> > > think >> > > > > that the fight over the institution is now just beginning. This >> is a >> > > > > mistake. As with most revolutions, open conflict occurs only after >> > real >> > > > > power has already changed hands." >> > > > > >> > > > > -greg >> > > > > >> > > > > On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 6:27 PM, Martin Packer < >> mpacker@cantab.net> >> > > > wrote: >> > > > > >> > > > > > On STEM and social science: >> > > > > > >> > > > > > <> > > > > > doctors-revolt-bernard-lown.html?action=click&pgtype= >> > > > > > Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col- >> > > > > > left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav= >> > > > > > opinion-c-col-left-region > > > > > > 02/24/opinion/sunday/doctors-revolt-bernard-lown.html? >> > > > > > action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading& >> > > > > > module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c-col- >> > > > > > left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region>>> >> > > > > > >> > > > > > On measures of learning: >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > measure-learning-outcomes.html?action=click&pgtype= >> > > > > > Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col- >> > > > > > left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav= >> > > > > > opinion-c-col-left-region > > > > > > 02/23/opinion/sunday/colleges-measure-learning-outcomes. >> > > > > > html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story- >> > > > > > heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c- >> > > > > > col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region>> >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Martin >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > On Feb 25, 2018, at 8:15 PM, Glassman, Michael < >> > > glassman.13@osu.edu> >> > > > > > wrote: >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Hi Huw, >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Perhaps the opposite is also true though. STEM researchers >> can >> > > > better >> > > > > > understand what they are doing if they are well versed in the >> > social >> > > > > > sciences. Understand the history and the meaning of what they >> are >> > > doing >> > > > > so >> > > > > > they do not act as androids (sorry, been watching the Aliens >> > trilogy >> > > of >> > > > > > late). Perhaps we made the wrong calculation. We have lost >> control >> > of >> > > > our >> > > > > > great STEM innovations because the people using them don't >> > understand >> > > > the >> > > > > > social webs that they create. So we have people pushing xMOOCs >> > > > (whatever >> > > > > > happened to MOOCs anyway) as saving education (and also a >> bundle so >> > > > > > everybody gets tax cuts, wheeee!), saying that they are good >> > because >> > > > they >> > > > > > can reach many, the proverbial long tail, with great education >> > > > (Harvard, >> > > > > > Stanford). Yet nobody asks the question, "Why is this a good >> > thing." >> > > > > There >> > > > > > really isn't much supporting this in earlier distance education. >> > > There >> > > > > is >> > > > > > actually more evidence of how dangerous it is (Participatory >> Action >> > > > > > Research). >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Michael >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > -----Original Message----- >> > > > > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >> > > > > > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Huw Lloyd >> > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2018 7:32 PM >> > > > > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > >> > > > > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > I would ask, what makes you think you have an ecology (or >> niche)? >> > > It >> > > > > > seems that the notion of topologically derived ecologies is >> still >> > > > bandied >> > > > > > about since Bronfenbrenner (1977), though I do not know whether >> he >> > > > > managed >> > > > > > to refine (overhaul and improve) his notions into something >> > > integrated >> > > > > and >> > > > > > agent-centric. One does not provide an ecology or an >> environment. >> > The >> > > > > > environment is different for everyone, a simple consideration >> of a >> > > > > > rock-face or climbing wall is sufficient to grasp this -- the so >> > > called >> > > > > > environment (the rock face) is different to each climber, their >> > > > > environment >> > > > > > is that which is appropriate to them which includes contexts >> well >> > > > beyond >> > > > > > what is established in an institution. From what I can gauge, >> > > > > historically, >> > > > > > slack was deliberately introduced into courses to afford >> personal >> > > > > enquiry. >> > > > > > > There was the basic work and then there was the genuine >> enquiry. >> > > Who >> > > > in >> > > > > > their right mind wants to write an exam essay on a question they >> > are >> > > > > > expected to pre-write and repeat by memory? Why would someone >> who >> > > > enjoys >> > > > > > thinking about their subject want to go through that kind of >> > > > impoverished >> > > > > > tedium? These systems are obviously geared for "delivery". >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Perhaps the biggest cultural shift can be achieved through >> > > > instituting >> > > > > > joint and personal enquiry. A teacher that stands before their >> > class >> > > > and >> > > > > > delivers their subject inevitably obscures and obstructs the >> > process >> > > of >> > > > > > enquiry, although many students will have learnt from a young >> age >> > > that >> > > > > this >> > > > > > is what to expect and demand. Engagement with genuine problems >> > rather >> > > > > than >> > > > > > what students are expected to do is the basic orientational >> issue. >> > > > > Dispose >> > > > > > of grades, then anyone who isn't interested is free to go home. >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > The advance of STEM research is probably a good thing for >> social >> > > > > science. >> > > > > > > For productive work, social science must understand the >> structure >> > > of >> > > > > > STEM based work, in addition to bureaucratic processes and >> > > > circumstances >> > > > > > for creative work. Sticking one's head in the sand over >> STEM-like >> > > > > research >> > > > > > serves merely to perpetuate the impoverished side of social >> > science. >> > > It >> > > > > > reminds me of the scene in Pirsig's Zen and the Art of >> Motorcycle >> > > > > > Maintenance in which a couple lack the wherewithal to fix a >> > dripping >> > > > > faucet >> > > > > > that gives them grief and instead choose to ignore it. Though it >> > was >> > > a >> > > > > very >> > > > > > long time ago, Pirsig's book may have contributed to my >> > understanding >> > > > of >> > > > > > quality and might be thought of as an exploration of some social >> > > issues >> > > > > > pertaining to technical enterprises. Another good text to >> > appreciate >> > > > > > quality more directly, probably outside the formal area of >> STEM, is >> > > > > > Alshuller's Innovation Algorithm. >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Warm regards to you Henry, Greg, Alfredo. >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Best, >> > > > > > > Huw >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > On 25 February 2018 at 22:39, Alfredo Jornet Gil < >> > > > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> >> > > > > > > wrote: >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Greg, Huw, and others, I do often get worried that in the >> > formals >> > > > and >> > > > > > >> informal meetings at our department (department of >> education), >> > > > > > >> conversations tend to focus on the "micro" developments that >> you >> > > > > > >> mention (students, grades, getting a next grant, getting that >> > > paper >> > > > > > >> published, making sure you've got enough) most of the time, >> and >> > > not >> > > > so >> > > > > > >> much on what society we would like to have, and how our >> > > institution >> > > > > > >> could/should contribute to that. I do not have any >> suggestions >> > on >> > > > the >> > > > > > >> type of studies that you ask about?dealing with how >> ecologies of >> > > > > > >> scholarship in academia lead to given developmental >> > dynamics?other >> > > > > > >> than the classical studies in STS, like Latour & Woolgar's on >> > > > > > >> laboratory life, or S. L. Star's. But when I look forward at >> > what >> > > > lies >> > > > > > >> between me (or anyone in my institution) and a change in the >> way >> > > > this >> > > > > > >> institution has impact in the life of many, what I see is >> lots >> > of >> > > > > > >> routines, habits, documents, and paperwork entangled in the >> > > middle, >> > > > > > >> such that the idea "mediation all the way through" makes all >> the >> > > > > > >> sense. And seeing things that way (from the ecological >> > > perspective), >> > > > > > >> makes the possibility of changing things to look actually >> > > feasible, >> > > > or >> > > > > > >> more accurately perhaps, imagine-able. I'd like to continue >> > being >> > > > part >> > > > > > >> of the ecology to be able to be also be part of its changing >> > it. I >> > > > > > >> hope others will bring more specific literature to bear. I am >> > > > already >> > > > > > downloading some of Peter Sloterdijk's to read. >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> Alfredo >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> ________________________________________ >> > > > > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> > > > > > >> on behalf of Greg Thompson >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> Sent: 24 February 2018 17:45 >> > > > > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >> > > > > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> I appreciate Huw's concern about academia and the push to >> orient >> > > to >> > > > a >> > > > > > >> broader and more systemic concern with "development". I think >> > that >> > > > > > >> this is what institutions of higher education are supposed to >> > > have, >> > > > > > >> right? - at the very least a concern for the development of >> > > > individual >> > > > > > >> "students", but also, one would hope, a concern for >> > "development" >> > > > at a >> > > > > > >> longer timescale (e.g., how to be a better society, a better >> > > world). >> > > > > > >> They certainly tout these in their promo materials. >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> And yet, in practice, these institutions often fall back on >> > > > > > >> bureaucratic or economic logics. Bureaucratic logic goes >> > something >> > > > > > >> like, "just publish (in "good" (i.e., high impact factor) >> > > journals), >> > > > > > >> who cares what you publish so long as we can count it to >> > determine >> > > > its >> > > > > > (and your) 'value'(!)". >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> As for the economic logic, I was just talking with Rick >> Shweder >> > > the >> > > > > > >> other day about this issue and he expressed the concern about >> > the >> > > > push >> > > > > > >> towards STEM education at the expense of all else and the way >> > that >> > > > > > >> STEM buildings are slowly starting to take over his campus >> (the >> > > > > > >> University of Chicago - a place that was long held to be a >> hold >> > > out >> > > > of >> > > > > > >> liberal arts education - apparently they now have an >> engineering >> > > > > > >> program). He suggested that this is tied to an early 80's >> court >> > > > > > >> decision that gave universities ownership of patents >> developed >> > on >> > > > > their >> > > > > > campuses. >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> To my mind, this calls to mind a concern with ecologies of >> > > > development >> > > > > > >> (across the shorter and longer timescales). What are the >> > ecologies >> > > > > > >> (social, economic, political, etc.) within which development >> (at >> > > > these >> > > > > > >> various >> > > > > > >> timescales) occurs in our world today? This is really a >> question >> > > of >> > > > > > >> what is possible and/or what is likely with regard to >> becoming. >> > > What >> > > > > > >> are the forms of life and forms of development that are >> > > sustainable >> > > > > > >> given the larger ecologies in which that development happens? >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> And for thinking through that problem, I've had a hard time >> > > thinking >> > > > > > >> of anyone who has better thought through this problem than >> Marx >> > - >> > > at >> > > > > > >> the longer timescale of development, that is (Vygotsky >> would, of >> > > > > > >> course, be better at thinking through development at the >> shorter >> > > > > > >> timescale of ontogeny). >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> I'd love to hear others' thoughts on those who have studied >> > > > activities >> > > > > > >> that can begin to shed light on these ecologies of >> development >> > > > > > >> (particularly at the longer timescale). Any >> > thoughts/suggestions? >> > > I >> > > > > > >> would imagine this work considering various kinds of >> > institutions >> > > > that >> > > > > > >> run the gamut - from venture capitalist firms to non-profits >> to >> > > > > > >> governmental institutions to institutions of higher >> education. I >> > > > would >> > > > > > >> presume that each of these kinds of institutions would have a >> > > local >> > > > > > >> ecology within which they work, but I am tempted to imagine >> some >> > > > kind >> > > > > > >> of global meta-ecology (perhaps Marx's "global >> > > > > > >> capitalism"?) within which each of these local ecologies >> > operates. >> > > > I'd >> > > > > > >> be curious about actual research that has been done >> documenting >> > > the >> > > > > > >> nature of these ecologies - e.g., what kinds of resources are >> > > > > > >> available to be exploited? What kinds of possibilities are >> there >> > > for >> > > > > > >> different forms of life? What institutional organisms can >> > thrive? >> > > > > > >> Which are dying off? (and just to be clear, I am intending a >> > > > > > >> biological/evolutionary nature of the metaphor). >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> It seems that this kind of work would be most likely to have >> > been >> > > > done >> > > > > > >> by folks in the CHAT world, but perhaps the scale (of time >> and >> > > > space) >> > > > > > >> is a bit beyond the scales that CHAT folks prefer to >> consider? >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> (I should add that I've recently discovered the work of Peter >> > > > > > >> Sloterdijk's Bubbles trilogy and am curious if anyone has any >> > > > thoughts >> > > > > > >> on the value of his approach - it seems to fit very well with >> > Marx >> > > > and >> > > > > > >> with CHAT/Vygotsky, my only initial concern was that he >> seems to >> > > > fly a >> > > > > > >> little fast and loose with pyschoanalytics at times - not a >> > > serious >> > > > > > >> problem, but perhaps in a few places). >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> Sympathetically, >> > > > > > >> greg >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 1:57 PM, Huw Lloyd < >> > > > huw.softdesigns@gmail.com >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> wrote: >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >>> Well, I would say there is more to it than simply >> > > transfer-ability, >> > > > > > >>> which might be thought of as a good bureaucratic >> requirement. >> > > > Really >> > > > > > >>> what is required is genuine development -- reorganisation of >> > > > thought >> > > > > > >>> and >> > > > > > >> learning. >> > > > > > >>> That is what is significant at a personal level, which is >> also >> > > the >> > > > > > >>> basis >> > > > > > >> of >> > > > > > >>> insights and creative work (i.e. personal knowledge rather >> than >> > > > > > >>> second >> > > > > > >> hand >> > > > > > >>> knowledge). The researcher in the blog article does not >> evince >> > > this >> > > > > > >>> (with allusions to the nature of her training). There is the >> > > > history >> > > > > > >>> school children learn, which largely concerns the use of >> > memory, >> > > > and >> > > > > > >>> then there >> > > > > > >> is >> > > > > > >>> the history of conditions, relations and processes, which >> > > concerns >> > > > > > >>> protracted thought. This developmental emphasis is what is >> > > lacking >> > > > > > >>> in institutions which is why I have frequently pointed it >> out. >> > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > >>> This principle apples to "secure" jobs too. The jobs I have >> > > walked >> > > > > > >>> away from have been due to the overly narrow scope, where I >> > felt >> > > it >> > > > > > >>> was necessary to be far more ambitious to achieve modest >> > > > > > >>> satisfaction, an ambition which included achieving the wider >> > > scope >> > > > > > >>> within the norms established. Similar issues pertain to my >> > > > > > >>> peripheral engagement with academia. Twenty years ago, after >> > > > > > >>> completing a masters in cognitive >> > > > > > >> science >> > > > > > >>> (a good year), I decided against pursuing any further formal >> > > > > > >>> education >> > > > > > >> with >> > > > > > >>> any immediacy due to my sense that what I was encountering >> in >> > the >> > > > > > >>> subject (and related subjects) was fundamentally wrong or >> > > > > > >>> inadequate, but I couldn't quite discern what that was. So, >> for >> > > me, >> > > > > > >>> I had no interest in furthering the academic course at the >> > time, >> > > > > > >>> because I was concerned with understanding, doing, >> discovering >> > > and >> > > > > > >>> development, not being a "good researcher". I was and am >> > > > > > >>> uninterested in the trappings of academia, what it looks >> like >> > > from >> > > > > > >>> the outside (with dubious ethics of promoting those in >> society >> > > who >> > > > > > >>> least need it) -- hence I am not too bothered about where >> the >> > > > > > >>> experiences come from. After all, if you want sound >> knowledge >> > > then >> > > > > > >>> it should be validated in places where it counts (in >> action), >> > not >> > > > in >> > > > > > an echo chamber of words. >> > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > >>>> From my (developmental) perspective academia appears to be >> > > > > > >>>> chockfull of >> > > > > > >>> unproductive thinking. The lack of systems understanding in >> the >> > > > > > >>> social sciences (which has been pointed out by key persons >> for >> > > two >> > > > > > >>> generations) >> > > > > > >> I >> > > > > > >>> find to be quite incredible. This, as far as I can see, is >> the >> > > > > > >>> panacea to the stasis and lethargy that I have seen in >> certain >> > > > > > >>> institutions, where there are people in secure jobs with no >> > > > interest >> > > > > > >>> in revitalising an institution (perhaps the same people who >> > rely >> > > > > > >>> upon their status for authority). In the UK, in the social >> > > > sciences, >> > > > > > >>> the whole social science infrastructure is built upon a >> notion >> > of >> > > > > > >>> quality that is ignorant of systems -- that is the degree to >> > > which >> > > > > > >>> unproductive thinking has >> > > > > > >> penetrated >> > > > > > >>> social science. >> > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > >>> Yet there is much more to it still. Recently I have also >> come >> > to >> > > a >> > > > > > >>> surprising awareness that developmental prerogatives have >> > rather >> > > a >> > > > > > >>> significant amount in common with spiritual ones. So I would >> > > offer >> > > > > > >> broader >> > > > > > >>> advice than Michael's of staying clear of hardship. It may >> be >> > > that >> > > > > > >>> in >> > > > > > >> that >> > > > > > >>> "nadir" something surprising may be discovered. For anyone >> > with a >> > > > > > >>> passion "job security" is not a goal, at best it is a means >> to >> > an >> > > > > > >>> ends, at worst >> > > > > > >> it >> > > > > > >>> is an obstacle. >> > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > >>> Over and out. :) >> > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > >>> Best, >> > > > > > >>> Huw >> > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > >>> On 20 February 2018 at 07:12, Alfredo Jornet Gil >> > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > >>> wrote: >> > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > >>>> Huw, Helena, and all, >> > > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > >>>> thanks to you both for taking the discussion where I was >> > hoping >> > > it >> > > > > > >>>> to >> > > > > > >> go >> > > > > > >>>> further: first, towards a reflection on the nature of >> training >> > > > > > >>>> academic scholars go through as it concerns the classical >> > > problem >> > > > > > >>>> of learning "transfer"; and then, as it regards the >> question >> > of >> > > > > > >>>> academic freedom >> > > > > > >>> (which >> > > > > > >>>> actually may be the same question, just taken in a language >> > more >> > > > > > >> adequate >> > > > > > >>>> to an ecological understanding of the problem). This is >> > > absolutely >> > > > > > >>>> not >> > > > > > >>> just >> > > > > > >>>> an individual problem. And, on that matter, I should be >> clear >> > > that >> > > > > > >>>> I >> > > > > > >> am a >> > > > > > >>>> privileged in a privileged land, where, despite all >> > uncertainty >> > > > > > >>>> and >> > > > > > >> pains >> > > > > > >>>> that my family have gone and go through, I have today a >> good >> > > > > > >>>> background >> > > > > > >>> and >> > > > > > >>>> network, and probably better prospects than the majority of >> > > junior >> > > > > > >>> scholars >> > > > > > >>>> out there. Not that I have earned this privilege for >> nothing: >> > my >> > > > > > >> migrant >> > > > > > >>>> history and that of my family is all connected to an effort >> > and >> > > > > > >>>> quest >> > > > > > >> to >> > > > > > >>>> get better chances of academic opportunity in this market >> > Helena >> > > > > > >>>> talks about. But my personal story, as that of the >> historian >> > in >> > > > > > >>>> the article shared or of my French astronomer friend, are >> > > relevant >> > > > > > >>>> in as far as >> > > > > > >> they >> > > > > > >>>> help us reflect on just those questions. They really also >> make >> > > one >> > > > > > >> wonder >> > > > > > >>>> on the sense of the term "academic freedom", for the latter >> > term >> > > > > > >>>> cannot >> > > > > > >>> be >> > > > > > >>>> about doing whatever research you want to do independently >> of >> > > some >> > > > > > >> market >> > > > > > >>>> conditions and societal needs and economy. We may then pose >> > the >> > > > > > >>> questions, >> > > > > > >>>> what type of "freedom" is the "freedom" current systems (of >> > > > > > >>>> incentives, >> > > > > > >>> of >> > > > > > >>>> ISI lists) afford, and what type of system could allow for >> > > another >> > > > > > >>> meaning >> > > > > > >>>> of the term "freedom"? >> > > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > >>>> Not to get too abstract, I guess that those reflections >> may be >> > > > > > >>>> best pondered along concrete cases, if people is willing to >> > take >> > > > > > >>>> on Helena's suggestion to share particular stories of all >> that >> > > > > > >>>> goes into getting >> > > > > > >> into >> > > > > > >>>> secured academic job positions, or else, of pursuing >> > > (in)dependent >> > > > > > >>> careers >> > > > > > >>>> outside/at the borders of/across academia. >> > > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > >>>> Alfredo >> > > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > >>>> ________________________________________ >> > > > > > >>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > >>>> on behalf of Helena Worthen >> > > > > > >>>> Sent: 19 February 2018 19:19 >> > > > > > >>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >> > > > > > >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >> > > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > >>>> In the interests of widening the discussion: >> > > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > >>>> I?ve described my work history before on this list ? >> > basically, >> > > > > > >>>> moving from teaching literature and writing (with >> stopovers in >> > > > > > >>>> landscape architecture and theater production) to concern >> > about >> > > > > > >>>> the working conditions of teachers, especially academics in >> > > higher >> > > > > > >>>> education, the >> > > > > > >> 75% >> > > > > > >>>> who are contingent/adjuncts. The concern is both for the >> > people >> > > > > > >> employed >> > > > > > >>>> this way and for the integrity of the institutions that >> employ >> > > > > > >>>> them. I eventually engaged this concern by working with and >> > for >> > > > > > >>>> the labor >> > > > > > >>> movement, >> > > > > > >>>> ending up first working for the garment/apparel workers >> union >> > in >> > > > > > >>>> Philadelphia and then at the Labor Educaiton Program at >> the U >> > of >> > > > > > >>> Illinois, >> > > > > > >>>> from which I retired in 2010. >> > > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > >>>> The new twist to this story is about the employment of >> > academics >> > > > > > >>>> on short-term contracts in Viet Nam, under conditions that >> > seem >> > > to >> > > > > > >>>> be increasingly frequent in the ?developing? world, where >> the >> > > > > > >>>> market for education is booming. University World News >> > > http://www >> > > > . >> > > > > > >>>> universityworldnews.com/ tracks this phenomenon and >> includes >> > > > > > >> occasinal >> > > > > > >>>> critical articles about the competition for rankings. The >> > > > > > >>>> university >> > > > > > >>> where >> > > > > > >>>> my husband and I have been teaching on and off since 2015, >> Ton >> > > Duc >> > > > > > >> Thang >> > > > > > >>> in >> > > > > > >>>> Ho Chi Minh City, recruits professors from all over the >> world >> > > with >> > > > > > >>>> a promise of $2,000 per month US ? but extending their >> > contracts >> > > > > > >>>> depends >> > > > > > >> on >> > > > > > >>>> producing articles published in journals on the ISI list; >> the >> > > > > > >>>> nature of this list is worth taking a look at. The impact >> of >> > > this >> > > > > > >>>> practice on the culture and student body is not all bad. >> > > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > >>>> My point here is to place the issue of the challenge of >> > getting >> > > a >> > > > > > >>>> tenure-track job in a global context. This is not just an >> > > > > > >>>> individual problem. >> > > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > >>>> I?m willing to go further down this line of discussion. >> > However, >> > > > > > >>> academics >> > > > > > >>>> are often reluctant to reveal and compare their working >> > > conditions >> > > > > > >>>> on >> > > > > > >> an >> > > > > > >>>> ?academic? discussion list. Maybe by putting up the issue >> of >> > > what >> > > > > > >>> academic >> > > > > > >>>> freedom requires, and how these requirements fare in the >> > global >> > > > > > >>>> market >> > > > > > >>> for >> > > > > > >>>> higher education, we can shed the embarassment of revealing >> > > > > > >>>> information about our own experiences with getting the >> brass >> > > ring >> > > > > > >>>> of a full-time, secure job. >> > > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > >>>> Let?s see if anyone picks up on this. Maybe I?m being too >> > vague. >> > > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > >>>> Helena Worthen >> > > > > > >>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com >> > > > > > >>>> Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 >> > > > > > >>>> Blog US/ Viet Nam: >> > > > > > >>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >> > > > > > >>>> skype: helena.worthen1 >> > > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > >>>>> On Feb 19, 2018, at 9:19 AM, Huw Lloyd >> > > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > > >>>> wrote: >> > > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>> The article describes accumulating large amounts of >> knowledge >> > > > > > >>> pertaining >> > > > > > >>>> to >> > > > > > >>>>> history, which (the author maintains) cannot be turned to >> > other >> > > > > > >>>> endeavours. >> > > > > > >>>>> This, no doubt, is true for her. If, however, her >> approach to >> > > > > > >> studying >> > > > > > >>>>> history had been systemic, then there would have been a >> > > powerful >> > > > > > >>>>> form >> > > > > > >>> of >> > > > > > >>>>> re-application and continuity in any work that was turned >> to. >> > > > > > >>>>> Perhaps >> > > > > > >>> the >> > > > > > >>>>> same can be said for "phd/postdoc training". If it cannot >> be >> > > > > > >>>>> reused >> > > > > > >> or >> > > > > > >>>>> isn't enabling, what, substantively, is it? >> > > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>> Best, >> > > > > > >>>>> Huw >> > > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>> On 18 February 2018 at 18:32, Alfredo Jornet Gil < >> > > > > > >> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> >> > > > > > >>>>> wrote: >> > > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> Really inspiring words and work, Francine. I do see >> > community >> > > > > > >> colleges >> > > > > > >>>> and >> > > > > > >>>>>> many other educational settings apart from universities >> as >> > > > > > >>>>>> really >> > > > > > >>>> valuable >> > > > > > >>>>>> and exciting opportunities; the PhD and following postdoc >> > etc >> > > > > > >> training >> > > > > > >>>> in >> > > > > > >>>>>> universities, however, tend to be very much targeted >> > towards a >> > > > > > >>>>>> very >> > > > > > >>>> narrow >> > > > > > >>>>>> spectrum of positions, or at least that's been my >> > experience. >> > > I >> > > > > > >>>>>> am >> > > > > > >>> very >> > > > > > >>>>>> happy that this thread may widen that scope and make >> visible >> > > > > > >>>>>> other >> > > > > > >>>> paths. >> > > > > > >>>>>> And as Mike suggested, it would be very interesting to >> hear >> > > > > > >>>>>> from >> > > > > > >>> several >> > > > > > >>>>>> others who have followed distinct trajectories apart from >> > the >> > > > > > >>>>>> phd-postdoc-assist/assoc. prof-prof, and yet made a >> career >> > in >> > > > > > >>>>>> touch >> > > > > > >>> with >> > > > > > >>>>>> most of what was developed in the junior (phd and few >> later) >> > > > > years. >> > > > > > >>>>>> Thanks! >> > > > > > >>>>>> Alfredo >> > > > > > >>>>>> ________________________________________ >> > > > > > >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> > > > > > > > > > > >>> edu> >> > > > > > >>>>>> on behalf of Larry Smolucha >> > > > > > >>>>>> Sent: 18 February 2018 06:20 >> > > > > > >>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >> > > > > > >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> Message from Francine Smolucha on a scholar's life with >> or >> > > > > > >>>>>> without >> > > > > > >>>> academia >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> Alfredo, >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> There are other jobs that pay well (sometimes with tenure >> > and >> > > > > > >>>>>> early retirement benefits) - besides professorships at >> four >> > > > > > >>>>>> year colleges >> > > > > > >>> and >> > > > > > >>>>>> universities. Administrative and support staff positions >> > pay >> > > > > well. >> > > > > > >>> And >> > > > > > >>>>>> don't overlook community colleges, technical colleges, >> and >> > > > > > >>>>>> public >> > > > > > >>> grade >> > > > > > >>>>>> schools and high schools. There is also the private >> sector >> > and >> > > > > > >>>> government >> > > > > > >>>>>> jobs. >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> As a 'low status' community college professor, I managed >> to >> > > > > > >> translate >> > > > > > >>>>>> Vygotsky's >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> overlooked writings on creativity (back in the 1980's) >> and >> > > > > > >> introduced >> > > > > > >>>> his >> > > > > > >>>>>> theory of creativity to academia. I got early >> retirement at >> > > > > > >>>>>> age 53 >> > > > > > >>> and >> > > > > > >>>>>> continue to write and publish. While my Ph.D from the >> > > > > > >>>>>> University of >> > > > > > >>>> Chicago >> > > > > > >>>>>> gave me academic bona fides, it was the quality of the >> > > > > > >>>>>> scholarly >> > > > > > >> work >> > > > > > >>>> that >> > > > > > >>>>>> ultimately mattered. >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> I was always inspired by the harsh circumstances of >> > Vygotsky's >> > > > > > >>>>>> life >> > > > > > >>> and >> > > > > > >>>>>> how he still kept on writing. >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> [When I felt really sorry for myself, I would actually >> say >> > > > > > >>>>>> "Well at >> > > > > > >>>> least >> > > > > > >>>>>> I am not coughing up blood"] >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> So many of his works were not published in his lifetime, >> he >> > > did >> > > > > not >> > > > > > >>>>>> collect a royalties check, and they say he was >> depressed >> > at >> > > > the >> > > > > > >> end >> > > > > > >>>> of >> > > > > > >>>>>> his life. >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> I leave you with this quote from an ancient Sufi mystic - >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> You can't always get what you want but you can get what >> you >> > > > > > >>>>>> need >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> . >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> ________________________________ >> > > > > > >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> > > > > > > > > > > >>> edu> >> > > > > > >>>>>> on behalf of mike cole >> > > > > > >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:07 PM >> > > > > > >>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >> > > > > > >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> Yours is a quandary shared by your generation, Alfredo. >> > > > > > >>>>>> Being allowed to teach and conduct research in a quality >> > > > > > >>>>>> institution >> > > > > > >>> is >> > > > > > >>>> a >> > > > > > >>>>>> great privilege and an >> > > > > > >>>>>> increasingly rarer possibility. >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> There are several people on this list who have organized >> > their >> > > > > > >>>>>> lives >> > > > > > >>> to >> > > > > > >>>> be >> > > > > > >>>>>> independent scholars >> > > > > > >>>>>> while staying connected to the core institutions of >> > > > > > >>>>>> disciplinary >> > > > > > >>>> training. >> > > > > > >>>>>> It might be nice to hear >> > > > > > >>>>>> the variety out there. >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> It appears pretty certain that the situation is going to >> get >> > > > > > >>>>>> worse before/if it gets better. >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> What can the collective experience of xmca come up with >> that >> > > > > > >>>>>> would >> > > > > > >> be >> > > > > > >>>>>> useful to the many >> > > > > > >>>>>> of you caught in this meat grinder? >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> mike >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < >> > > > > > >>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> >> > > > > > >>>>>> wrote: >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>>> Good luck then, Wagner! >> > > > > > >>>>>>> A >> > > > > > >>>>>>> ________________________________________ >> > > > > > >>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > >>> edu >> > > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>>> on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit < >> wagner.schmit@gmail.com> >> > > > > > >>>>>>> Sent: 18 February 2018 01:07 >> > > > > > >>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity >> > > > > > >>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >> > > > > > >>>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>>> This just hit me in the spot... >> > > > > > >>>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>>> Wagner >> > > > > > >>>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2018 9:48 PM, "Alfredo Jornet Gil" >> > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> wrote: >> > > > > > >>>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> I have not been able to contribute to this list as >> much as >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> I'd >> > > > > > >> like >> > > > > > >>> to >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> lately, among other things, because I need to find a >> job, >> > > and >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> I >> > > > > > >> need >> > > > > > >>>> to >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> make sure that I have checked all those boxes that >> > selection >> > > > > > >>>> committees >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> will check (enough first-authored publications? in good >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> enough >> > > > > > >>>>>> journals? >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> acquiring >> > > > > > >>> funds? >> > > > > > >>>>>>> more >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> than all others candidates? and more than >> > > > > > >>> favoured-for-whatever-other- >> > > > > > >>>>>>> reasons >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these >> weeks >> > to >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> fill >> > > > > > >> up >> > > > > > >>> a >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> And, although I did not think that it was particularly >> > well >> > > > > > >> written, >> > > > > > >>>> it >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> was both relieving and discouraging to read this >> article >> > > (see >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> link >> > > > > > >>>>>> below, >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague who >> I >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> think >> > > > > > >> also >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> subscribes this list). The article makes visible the >> pain >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> scholars >> > > > > > >>> go >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> through when, after so many years of digging and >> digging >> > and >> > > > > > >>> digging a >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to leave it >> > and >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> find >> > > > > > >>> some >> > > > > > >>>>>>> other >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer who >> was >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> moving >> > > > > > >>>>>> through >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> the world with his lovely family, short-term project >> after >> > > > > > >>> short-term >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> project, getting better and better at what he worked on >> > > > > > >> (apparently >> > > > > > >>> he >> > > > > > >>>>>>> was >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> among the few who had expertise in computer modeling >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> simulating >> > > > > > >> some >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> astronomic events) , and finally having to step out >> > academia >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> last >> > > > > > >>> year >> > > > > > >>>>>> to >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> find something else to do, for his family no longer >> could >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> stand >> > > > > > >> the >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be me >> soon. >> > > And >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> that >> > > > > > >>> may >> > > > > > >>>>>>> not >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the >> story >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> seems to >> > > > > > >> be >> > > > > > >>>>>>> quite >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> endemic to academia and may be interesting to some of >> you: >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Loses- >> > > When/24 >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> 2560 >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> Alfredo >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> -- >> > > > > > >> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >> > > > > > >> Assistant Professor >> > > > > > >> Department of Anthropology >> > > > > > >> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >> > > > > > >> Brigham Young University >> > > > > > >> Provo, UT 84602 >> > > > > > >> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu >> > > > > > >> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > -- >> > > > > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >> > > > > Assistant Professor >> > > > > Department of Anthropology >> > > > > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >> > > > > Brigham Young University >> > > > > Provo, UT 84602 >> > > > > WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu >> > > > > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >> > Assistant Professor >> > Department of Anthropology >> > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >> > Brigham Young University >> > Provo, UT 84602 >> > WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu >> > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >> > >> > > > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson From glassman.13@osu.edu Wed Feb 28 19:26:16 2018 From: glassman.13@osu.edu (Glassman, Michael) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2018 03:26:16 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In-Reply-To: References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> <1518914964416.39650@iped.uio.no> <1518978734957.93647@iped.uio.no> <87FCF1E0-1B28-4F92-A85C-9E5A10424B74@gmail.com> <1519110745104.46827@iped.uio.no> <1519598399026.36406@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AD5C72@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> Message-ID: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AEE329@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> Hi Greg, Here is my question. If we go to slow academics how do we determine on the distribution of resources? If we give people a lot of time to conduct their work who gets that time? I think the scarcity of academic resources is very much a corporate phenomenon. There really should be enough resources for everybody to pursue academics as they wish. The peer review system and the publish or perish ethos is deeply flawed and causes a lot of research that shouldn't be done, let alone published. But if not at least a semblance of a level playing field you get with blind review then how do you decide who deserves the resources. Is it based on connections, networks, who you know, where you went to school? Does cultural capital become that much more important? Is this less democratic or more democratic? To tell you the truth I don't know. The flaw is in the scarcity though, not the system it seems to me. That we have allowed for a large academic diaspora to emerge that is forced to teach for little money and no benefits. Something we all allowed to happen. Michael -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Greg Thompson Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2018 9:10 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship (oh, and I didn't mean to be exclusive in pointing to Michael's work, there are many others on the list who would fit this description!) On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 7:08 PM, Greg Thompson wrote: > Yes, Michael, totally agreed. And I see you as a rare exception to the > production mill. Whereas you manage to prolifically produce important > writings, much of what is published is, to my mind, written too > hurriedly and lacks the quality and importance of publications like yours. > -greg > > > On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 5:33 PM, Wolff-Michael Roth < > wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Greg, not all people will think being publishing machines. Some, like >> myself, enjoy spending many hours a day writing, analyzing etc. and >> turning all of this into peer-reviewed articles. >> >> I referred to my earliest experience before, when I was told I would >> not make tenure; and I felt I would not be able to make the 2 >> articles or so per year in high quality journals. >> >> But after an absence from academia, it changed. I started doing >> research for myself initially, and then wrote it up. From then on, it >> was different, writing was something I wanted to do, and the more I >> did, the better I got at it. (Not that the peer-review process would >> have gotten easier.) >> >> I do admit, though, that the system as set up right now then tends to >> reward people who publish more than others, and in "better" journals. >> >> And it depends on context. In the department that I am affiliated >> with, there are people promoted and tenured without at least a >> handful of articles in commonly recognized journals. And if you are >> happy with an average increase in your salary, you don't have to get >> stressed in our place either. >> >> Michael >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 4:04 PM, Greg Thompson >> > > >> wrote: >> >> > I once toyed with the idea of "slow scholarship" and I remain >> > entirely convinced that this is a virtue. But once I was entered >> > into the competition/race of academia, it was all about how fast >> > you can get to >> the >> > finish line (aka "publications"). >> > >> > Perhaps there is something good about this (assuming that it is >> > better >> to >> > publish something than to not publish anything), but it also has >> > the nefarious effect of turning scholars into cogs in publishing factories. >> > >> > And, continuing in this cynical spirit, I might add that the >> > Science article about "Slow" actually seems to be making the same >> > case for >> speed - >> > maybe it isn't a sprint, but it is still a race and first one to >> > the >> finish >> > line wins, so you better pick up the pace! Fast! >> > >> > And re: the man whispering in his ear as he runs: >> > "We see how in this way the mode of production and the means of >> production >> > are continually transformed, revolutionised, *how the division of >> labour is >> > necessarily followed by greater divisions of labour, the >> > application of machinery by still greater application of machinery, >> > work on a large >> scale >> > by work on a still larger scale.* >> > >> > "That is the law which again and again throws bourgeois production >> > out >> of >> > its old course and which compels capital to intensify the >> > productive >> forces >> > of labour, *because *it has intensified them, it, the law which >> > gives capital no rest and continually whispers in its ear: 'Go on! Go on!'" >> > (Marx - Wage Labour and Capital). >> > >> > -greg? >> > >> > On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 3:11 PM, Wolff-Michael Roth < >> > wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> > > Hi all, >> > > this article "In praise of slow" appears to be fitting the discussion. >> > The >> > > author uses a nice analogy with running. Michael >> > > http://science.sciencemag.org/content/359/6375/602 >> > > >> > > On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 8:40 AM, Huw Lloyd >> > > > > >> > > wrote: >> > > >> > > > "Assessing their abilities and accomplishments in this regard >> > > > was a >> > > matter >> > > > of judgment and so could not be quantified; it could be >> > > > exercised >> only >> > by >> > > > those capable of it." >> > > > >> > > > I would say, "cannot be quantified simply". >> > > > >> > > > Best, >> > > > Huw >> > > > >> > > > On 26 February 2018 at 15:05, Greg Thompson < >> greg.a.thompson@gmail.com >> > > >> > > > wrote: >> > > > >> > > > > And here is a nice article that speaks to the bureaucratic >> > > > > logic >> > that I >> > > > was >> > > > > mentioning (the author refers to "the all-administrative >> > institution"): >> > > > > https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/whose-university-is-it- >> anyway/#! >> > > > > >> > > > > A quote from it: >> > > > > "The revolution is over and the administrators have won. But >> > > > > the persistence of traditional structures and language has >> > > > > led some to >> > > think >> > > > > that the fight over the institution is now just beginning. >> > > > > This >> is a >> > > > > mistake. As with most revolutions, open conflict occurs only >> > > > > after >> > real >> > > > > power has already changed hands." >> > > > > >> > > > > -greg >> > > > > >> > > > > On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 6:27 PM, Martin Packer < >> mpacker@cantab.net> >> > > > wrote: >> > > > > >> > > > > > On STEM and social science: >> > > > > > >> > > > > > <> > > > > > doctors-revolt-bernard-lown.html?action=click&pgtype= >> > > > > > Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col- >> > > > > > left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav= >> > > > > > opinion-c-col-left-region > > > > > > 02/24/opinion/sunday/doctors-revolt-bernard-lown.html? >> > > > > > action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading& >> > > > > > module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c-col- >> > > > > > left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region>>> >> > > > > > >> > > > > > On measures of learning: >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > - measure-learning-outcomes.html?action=click&pgtype= >> > > > > > Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col- >> > > > > > left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav= >> > > > > > opinion-c-col-left-region > > > > > > 02/23/opinion/sunday/colleges-measure-learning-outcomes. >> > > > > > html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story- >> > > > > > heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c- >> > > > > > col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region>> >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Martin >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > On Feb 25, 2018, at 8:15 PM, Glassman, Michael < >> > > glassman.13@osu.edu> >> > > > > > wrote: >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Hi Huw, >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Perhaps the opposite is also true though. STEM >> > > > > > > researchers >> can >> > > > better >> > > > > > understand what they are doing if they are well versed in >> > > > > > the >> > social >> > > > > > sciences. Understand the history and the meaning of what >> > > > > > they >> are >> > > doing >> > > > > so >> > > > > > they do not act as androids (sorry, been watching the >> > > > > > Aliens >> > trilogy >> > > of >> > > > > > late). Perhaps we made the wrong calculation. We have lost >> control >> > of >> > > > our >> > > > > > great STEM innovations because the people using them don't >> > understand >> > > > the >> > > > > > social webs that they create. So we have people pushing >> > > > > > xMOOCs >> > > > (whatever >> > > > > > happened to MOOCs anyway) as saving education (and also a >> bundle so >> > > > > > everybody gets tax cuts, wheeee!), saying that they are >> > > > > > good >> > because >> > > > they >> > > > > > can reach many, the proverbial long tail, with great >> > > > > > education >> > > > (Harvard, >> > > > > > Stanford). Yet nobody asks the question, "Why is this a >> > > > > > good >> > thing." >> > > > > There >> > > > > > really isn't much supporting this in earlier distance education. >> > > There >> > > > > is >> > > > > > actually more evidence of how dangerous it is >> > > > > > (Participatory >> Action >> > > > > > Research). >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Michael >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > -----Original Message----- >> > > > > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> > > > > > > [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >> > > > > > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Huw Lloyd >> > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2018 7:32 PM >> > > > > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > I would ask, what makes you think you have an ecology (or >> niche)? >> > > It >> > > > > > seems that the notion of topologically derived ecologies is >> still >> > > > bandied >> > > > > > about since Bronfenbrenner (1977), though I do not know >> > > > > > whether >> he >> > > > > managed >> > > > > > to refine (overhaul and improve) his notions into something >> > > integrated >> > > > > and >> > > > > > agent-centric. One does not provide an ecology or an >> environment. >> > The >> > > > > > environment is different for everyone, a simple >> > > > > > consideration >> of a >> > > > > > rock-face or climbing wall is sufficient to grasp this -- >> > > > > > the so >> > > called >> > > > > > environment (the rock face) is different to each climber, >> > > > > > their >> > > > > environment >> > > > > > is that which is appropriate to them which includes >> > > > > > contexts >> well >> > > > beyond >> > > > > > what is established in an institution. From what I can >> > > > > > gauge, >> > > > > historically, >> > > > > > slack was deliberately introduced into courses to afford >> personal >> > > > > enquiry. >> > > > > > > There was the basic work and then there was the genuine >> enquiry. >> > > Who >> > > > in >> > > > > > their right mind wants to write an exam essay on a question >> > > > > > they >> > are >> > > > > > expected to pre-write and repeat by memory? Why would >> > > > > > someone >> who >> > > > enjoys >> > > > > > thinking about their subject want to go through that kind >> > > > > > of >> > > > impoverished >> > > > > > tedium? These systems are obviously geared for "delivery". >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Perhaps the biggest cultural shift can be achieved >> > > > > > > through >> > > > instituting >> > > > > > joint and personal enquiry. A teacher that stands before >> > > > > > their >> > class >> > > > and >> > > > > > delivers their subject inevitably obscures and obstructs >> > > > > > the >> > process >> > > of >> > > > > > enquiry, although many students will have learnt from a >> > > > > > young >> age >> > > that >> > > > > this >> > > > > > is what to expect and demand. Engagement with genuine >> > > > > > problems >> > rather >> > > > > than >> > > > > > what students are expected to do is the basic orientational >> issue. >> > > > > Dispose >> > > > > > of grades, then anyone who isn't interested is free to go home. >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > The advance of STEM research is probably a good thing for >> social >> > > > > science. >> > > > > > > For productive work, social science must understand the >> structure >> > > of >> > > > > > STEM based work, in addition to bureaucratic processes and >> > > > circumstances >> > > > > > for creative work. Sticking one's head in the sand over >> STEM-like >> > > > > research >> > > > > > serves merely to perpetuate the impoverished side of social >> > science. >> > > It >> > > > > > reminds me of the scene in Pirsig's Zen and the Art of >> Motorcycle >> > > > > > Maintenance in which a couple lack the wherewithal to fix a >> > dripping >> > > > > faucet >> > > > > > that gives them grief and instead choose to ignore it. >> > > > > > Though it >> > was >> > > a >> > > > > very >> > > > > > long time ago, Pirsig's book may have contributed to my >> > understanding >> > > > of >> > > > > > quality and might be thought of as an exploration of some >> > > > > > social >> > > issues >> > > > > > pertaining to technical enterprises. Another good text to >> > appreciate >> > > > > > quality more directly, probably outside the formal area of >> STEM, is >> > > > > > Alshuller's Innovation Algorithm. >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Warm regards to you Henry, Greg, Alfredo. >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Best, >> > > > > > > Huw >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > On 25 February 2018 at 22:39, Alfredo Jornet Gil < >> > > > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> >> > > > > > > wrote: >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Greg, Huw, and others, I do often get worried that in >> > > > > > >> the >> > formals >> > > > and >> > > > > > >> informal meetings at our department (department of >> education), >> > > > > > >> conversations tend to focus on the "micro" developments >> > > > > > >> that >> you >> > > > > > >> mention (students, grades, getting a next grant, getting >> > > > > > >> that >> > > paper >> > > > > > >> published, making sure you've got enough) most of the >> > > > > > >> time, >> and >> > > not >> > > > so >> > > > > > >> much on what society we would like to have, and how our >> > > institution >> > > > > > >> could/should contribute to that. I do not have any >> suggestions >> > on >> > > > the >> > > > > > >> type of studies that you ask about?dealing with how >> ecologies of >> > > > > > >> scholarship in academia lead to given developmental >> > dynamics?other >> > > > > > >> than the classical studies in STS, like Latour & >> > > > > > >> Woolgar's on laboratory life, or S. L. Star's. But when >> > > > > > >> I look forward at >> > what >> > > > lies >> > > > > > >> between me (or anyone in my institution) and a change in >> > > > > > >> the >> way >> > > > this >> > > > > > >> institution has impact in the life of many, what I see >> > > > > > >> is >> lots >> > of >> > > > > > >> routines, habits, documents, and paperwork entangled in >> > > > > > >> the >> > > middle, >> > > > > > >> such that the idea "mediation all the way through" makes >> > > > > > >> all >> the >> > > > > > >> sense. And seeing things that way (from the ecological >> > > perspective), >> > > > > > >> makes the possibility of changing things to look >> > > > > > >> actually >> > > feasible, >> > > > or >> > > > > > >> more accurately perhaps, imagine-able. I'd like to >> > > > > > >> continue >> > being >> > > > part >> > > > > > >> of the ecology to be able to be also be part of its >> > > > > > >> changing >> > it. I >> > > > > > >> hope others will bring more specific literature to bear. >> > > > > > >> I am >> > > > already >> > > > > > downloading some of Peter Sloterdijk's to read. >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> Alfredo >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> ________________________________________ >> > > > > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> > > > > > >> on behalf of Greg >> > > > > > >> Thompson >> > > > > > >> Sent: 24 February 2018 17:45 >> > > > > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >> > > > > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> I appreciate Huw's concern about academia and the push >> > > > > > >> to >> orient >> > > to >> > > > a >> > > > > > >> broader and more systemic concern with "development". I >> > > > > > >> think >> > that >> > > > > > >> this is what institutions of higher education are >> > > > > > >> supposed to >> > > have, >> > > > > > >> right? - at the very least a concern for the development >> > > > > > >> of >> > > > individual >> > > > > > >> "students", but also, one would hope, a concern for >> > "development" >> > > > at a >> > > > > > >> longer timescale (e.g., how to be a better society, a >> > > > > > >> better >> > > world). >> > > > > > >> They certainly tout these in their promo materials. >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> And yet, in practice, these institutions often fall back >> > > > > > >> on bureaucratic or economic logics. Bureaucratic logic >> > > > > > >> goes >> > something >> > > > > > >> like, "just publish (in "good" (i.e., high impact >> > > > > > >> factor) >> > > journals), >> > > > > > >> who cares what you publish so long as we can count it to >> > determine >> > > > its >> > > > > > (and your) 'value'(!)". >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> As for the economic logic, I was just talking with Rick >> Shweder >> > > the >> > > > > > >> other day about this issue and he expressed the concern >> > > > > > >> about >> > the >> > > > push >> > > > > > >> towards STEM education at the expense of all else and >> > > > > > >> the way >> > that >> > > > > > >> STEM buildings are slowly starting to take over his >> > > > > > >> campus >> (the >> > > > > > >> University of Chicago - a place that was long held to be >> > > > > > >> a >> hold >> > > out >> > > > of >> > > > > > >> liberal arts education - apparently they now have an >> engineering >> > > > > > >> program). He suggested that this is tied to an early >> > > > > > >> 80's >> court >> > > > > > >> decision that gave universities ownership of patents >> developed >> > on >> > > > > their >> > > > > > campuses. >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> To my mind, this calls to mind a concern with ecologies >> > > > > > >> of >> > > > development >> > > > > > >> (across the shorter and longer timescales). What are the >> > ecologies >> > > > > > >> (social, economic, political, etc.) within which >> > > > > > >> development >> (at >> > > > these >> > > > > > >> various >> > > > > > >> timescales) occurs in our world today? This is really a >> question >> > > of >> > > > > > >> what is possible and/or what is likely with regard to >> becoming. >> > > What >> > > > > > >> are the forms of life and forms of development that are >> > > sustainable >> > > > > > >> given the larger ecologies in which that development happens? >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> And for thinking through that problem, I've had a hard >> > > > > > >> time >> > > thinking >> > > > > > >> of anyone who has better thought through this problem >> > > > > > >> than >> Marx >> > - >> > > at >> > > > > > >> the longer timescale of development, that is (Vygotsky >> would, of >> > > > > > >> course, be better at thinking through development at the >> shorter >> > > > > > >> timescale of ontogeny). >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> I'd love to hear others' thoughts on those who have >> > > > > > >> studied >> > > > activities >> > > > > > >> that can begin to shed light on these ecologies of >> development >> > > > > > >> (particularly at the longer timescale). Any >> > thoughts/suggestions? >> > > I >> > > > > > >> would imagine this work considering various kinds of >> > institutions >> > > > that >> > > > > > >> run the gamut - from venture capitalist firms to >> > > > > > >> non-profits >> to >> > > > > > >> governmental institutions to institutions of higher >> education. I >> > > > would >> > > > > > >> presume that each of these kinds of institutions would >> > > > > > >> have a >> > > local >> > > > > > >> ecology within which they work, but I am tempted to >> > > > > > >> imagine >> some >> > > > kind >> > > > > > >> of global meta-ecology (perhaps Marx's "global >> > > > > > >> capitalism"?) within which each of these local ecologies >> > operates. >> > > > I'd >> > > > > > >> be curious about actual research that has been done >> documenting >> > > the >> > > > > > >> nature of these ecologies - e.g., what kinds of >> > > > > > >> resources are available to be exploited? What kinds of >> > > > > > >> possibilities are >> there >> > > for >> > > > > > >> different forms of life? What institutional organisms >> > > > > > >> can >> > thrive? >> > > > > > >> Which are dying off? (and just to be clear, I am >> > > > > > >> intending a biological/evolutionary nature of the metaphor). >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> It seems that this kind of work would be most likely to >> > > > > > >> have >> > been >> > > > done >> > > > > > >> by folks in the CHAT world, but perhaps the scale (of >> > > > > > >> time >> and >> > > > space) >> > > > > > >> is a bit beyond the scales that CHAT folks prefer to >> consider? >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> (I should add that I've recently discovered the work of >> > > > > > >> Peter Sloterdijk's Bubbles trilogy and am curious if >> > > > > > >> anyone has any >> > > > thoughts >> > > > > > >> on the value of his approach - it seems to fit very well >> > > > > > >> with >> > Marx >> > > > and >> > > > > > >> with CHAT/Vygotsky, my only initial concern was that he >> seems to >> > > > fly a >> > > > > > >> little fast and loose with pyschoanalytics at times - >> > > > > > >> not a >> > > serious >> > > > > > >> problem, but perhaps in a few places). >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> Sympathetically, >> > > > > > >> greg >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 1:57 PM, Huw Lloyd < >> > > > huw.softdesigns@gmail.com >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> wrote: >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >>> Well, I would say there is more to it than simply >> > > transfer-ability, >> > > > > > >>> which might be thought of as a good bureaucratic >> requirement. >> > > > Really >> > > > > > >>> what is required is genuine development -- >> > > > > > >>> reorganisation of >> > > > thought >> > > > > > >>> and >> > > > > > >> learning. >> > > > > > >>> That is what is significant at a personal level, which >> > > > > > >>> is >> also >> > > the >> > > > > > >>> basis >> > > > > > >> of >> > > > > > >>> insights and creative work (i.e. personal knowledge >> > > > > > >>> rather >> than >> > > > > > >>> second >> > > > > > >> hand >> > > > > > >>> knowledge). The researcher in the blog article does not >> evince >> > > this >> > > > > > >>> (with allusions to the nature of her training). There >> > > > > > >>> is the >> > > > history >> > > > > > >>> school children learn, which largely concerns the use >> > > > > > >>> of >> > memory, >> > > > and >> > > > > > >>> then there >> > > > > > >> is >> > > > > > >>> the history of conditions, relations and processes, >> > > > > > >>> which >> > > concerns >> > > > > > >>> protracted thought. This developmental emphasis is what >> > > > > > >>> is >> > > lacking >> > > > > > >>> in institutions which is why I have frequently pointed >> > > > > > >>> it >> out. >> > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > >>> This principle apples to "secure" jobs too. The jobs I >> > > > > > >>> have >> > > walked >> > > > > > >>> away from have been due to the overly narrow scope, >> > > > > > >>> where I >> > felt >> > > it >> > > > > > >>> was necessary to be far more ambitious to achieve >> > > > > > >>> modest satisfaction, an ambition which included >> > > > > > >>> achieving the wider >> > > scope >> > > > > > >>> within the norms established. Similar issues pertain to >> > > > > > >>> my peripheral engagement with academia. Twenty years >> > > > > > >>> ago, after completing a masters in cognitive >> > > > > > >> science >> > > > > > >>> (a good year), I decided against pursuing any further >> > > > > > >>> formal education >> > > > > > >> with >> > > > > > >>> any immediacy due to my sense that what I was >> > > > > > >>> encountering >> in >> > the >> > > > > > >>> subject (and related subjects) was fundamentally wrong >> > > > > > >>> or inadequate, but I couldn't quite discern what that >> > > > > > >>> was. So, >> for >> > > me, >> > > > > > >>> I had no interest in furthering the academic course at >> > > > > > >>> the >> > time, >> > > > > > >>> because I was concerned with understanding, doing, >> discovering >> > > and >> > > > > > >>> development, not being a "good researcher". I was and >> > > > > > >>> am uninterested in the trappings of academia, what it >> > > > > > >>> looks >> like >> > > from >> > > > > > >>> the outside (with dubious ethics of promoting those in >> society >> > > who >> > > > > > >>> least need it) -- hence I am not too bothered about >> > > > > > >>> where >> the >> > > > > > >>> experiences come from. After all, if you want sound >> knowledge >> > > then >> > > > > > >>> it should be validated in places where it counts (in >> action), >> > not >> > > > in >> > > > > > an echo chamber of words. >> > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > >>>> From my (developmental) perspective academia appears >> > > > > > >>>> to be chockfull of >> > > > > > >>> unproductive thinking. The lack of systems >> > > > > > >>> understanding in >> the >> > > > > > >>> social sciences (which has been pointed out by key >> > > > > > >>> persons >> for >> > > two >> > > > > > >>> generations) >> > > > > > >> I >> > > > > > >>> find to be quite incredible. This, as far as I can see, >> > > > > > >>> is >> the >> > > > > > >>> panacea to the stasis and lethargy that I have seen in >> certain >> > > > > > >>> institutions, where there are people in secure jobs >> > > > > > >>> with no >> > > > interest >> > > > > > >>> in revitalising an institution (perhaps the same people >> > > > > > >>> who >> > rely >> > > > > > >>> upon their status for authority). In the UK, in the >> > > > > > >>> social >> > > > sciences, >> > > > > > >>> the whole social science infrastructure is built upon a >> notion >> > of >> > > > > > >>> quality that is ignorant of systems -- that is the >> > > > > > >>> degree to >> > > which >> > > > > > >>> unproductive thinking has >> > > > > > >> penetrated >> > > > > > >>> social science. >> > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > >>> Yet there is much more to it still. Recently I have >> > > > > > >>> also >> come >> > to >> > > a >> > > > > > >>> surprising awareness that developmental prerogatives >> > > > > > >>> have >> > rather >> > > a >> > > > > > >>> significant amount in common with spiritual ones. So I >> > > > > > >>> would >> > > offer >> > > > > > >> broader >> > > > > > >>> advice than Michael's of staying clear of hardship. It >> > > > > > >>> may >> be >> > > that >> > > > > > >>> in >> > > > > > >> that >> > > > > > >>> "nadir" something surprising may be discovered. For >> > > > > > >>> anyone >> > with a >> > > > > > >>> passion "job security" is not a goal, at best it is a >> > > > > > >>> means >> to >> > an >> > > > > > >>> ends, at worst >> > > > > > >> it >> > > > > > >>> is an obstacle. >> > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > >>> Over and out. :) >> > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > >>> Best, >> > > > > > >>> Huw >> > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > >>> On 20 February 2018 at 07:12, Alfredo Jornet Gil >> > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > >>> wrote: >> > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > >>>> Huw, Helena, and all, >> > > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > >>>> thanks to you both for taking the discussion where I >> > > > > > >>>> was >> > hoping >> > > it >> > > > > > >>>> to >> > > > > > >> go >> > > > > > >>>> further: first, towards a reflection on the nature of >> training >> > > > > > >>>> academic scholars go through as it concerns the >> > > > > > >>>> classical >> > > problem >> > > > > > >>>> of learning "transfer"; and then, as it regards the >> question >> > of >> > > > > > >>>> academic freedom >> > > > > > >>> (which >> > > > > > >>>> actually may be the same question, just taken in a >> > > > > > >>>> language >> > more >> > > > > > >> adequate >> > > > > > >>>> to an ecological understanding of the problem). This >> > > > > > >>>> is >> > > absolutely >> > > > > > >>>> not >> > > > > > >>> just >> > > > > > >>>> an individual problem. And, on that matter, I should >> > > > > > >>>> be >> clear >> > > that >> > > > > > >>>> I >> > > > > > >> am a >> > > > > > >>>> privileged in a privileged land, where, despite all >> > uncertainty >> > > > > > >>>> and >> > > > > > >> pains >> > > > > > >>>> that my family have gone and go through, I have today >> > > > > > >>>> a >> good >> > > > > > >>>> background >> > > > > > >>> and >> > > > > > >>>> network, and probably better prospects than the >> > > > > > >>>> majority of >> > > junior >> > > > > > >>> scholars >> > > > > > >>>> out there. Not that I have earned this privilege for >> nothing: >> > my >> > > > > > >> migrant >> > > > > > >>>> history and that of my family is all connected to an >> > > > > > >>>> effort >> > and >> > > > > > >>>> quest >> > > > > > >> to >> > > > > > >>>> get better chances of academic opportunity in this >> > > > > > >>>> market >> > Helena >> > > > > > >>>> talks about. But my personal story, as that of the >> historian >> > in >> > > > > > >>>> the article shared or of my French astronomer friend, >> > > > > > >>>> are >> > > relevant >> > > > > > >>>> in as far as >> > > > > > >> they >> > > > > > >>>> help us reflect on just those questions. They really >> > > > > > >>>> also >> make >> > > one >> > > > > > >> wonder >> > > > > > >>>> on the sense of the term "academic freedom", for the >> > > > > > >>>> latter >> > term >> > > > > > >>>> cannot >> > > > > > >>> be >> > > > > > >>>> about doing whatever research you want to do >> > > > > > >>>> independently >> of >> > > some >> > > > > > >> market >> > > > > > >>>> conditions and societal needs and economy. We may then >> > > > > > >>>> pose >> > the >> > > > > > >>> questions, >> > > > > > >>>> what type of "freedom" is the "freedom" current >> > > > > > >>>> systems (of incentives, >> > > > > > >>> of >> > > > > > >>>> ISI lists) afford, and what type of system could allow >> > > > > > >>>> for >> > > another >> > > > > > >>> meaning >> > > > > > >>>> of the term "freedom"? >> > > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > >>>> Not to get too abstract, I guess that those >> > > > > > >>>> reflections >> may be >> > > > > > >>>> best pondered along concrete cases, if people is >> > > > > > >>>> willing to >> > take >> > > > > > >>>> on Helena's suggestion to share particular stories of >> > > > > > >>>> all >> that >> > > > > > >>>> goes into getting >> > > > > > >> into >> > > > > > >>>> secured academic job positions, or else, of pursuing >> > > (in)dependent >> > > > > > >>> careers >> > > > > > >>>> outside/at the borders of/across academia. >> > > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > >>>> Alfredo >> > > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > >>>> ________________________________________ >> > > > > > >>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > >>>> on behalf of Helena Worthen >> > > > > > >>>> Sent: 19 February 2018 19:19 >> > > > > > >>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >> > > > > > >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >> > > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > >>>> In the interests of widening the discussion: >> > > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > >>>> I?ve described my work history before on this list ? >> > basically, >> > > > > > >>>> moving from teaching literature and writing (with >> stopovers in >> > > > > > >>>> landscape architecture and theater production) to >> > > > > > >>>> concern >> > about >> > > > > > >>>> the working conditions of teachers, especially >> > > > > > >>>> academics in >> > > higher >> > > > > > >>>> education, the >> > > > > > >> 75% >> > > > > > >>>> who are contingent/adjuncts. The concern is both for >> > > > > > >>>> the >> > people >> > > > > > >> employed >> > > > > > >>>> this way and for the integrity of the institutions >> > > > > > >>>> that >> employ >> > > > > > >>>> them. I eventually engaged this concern by working >> > > > > > >>>> with and >> > for >> > > > > > >>>> the labor >> > > > > > >>> movement, >> > > > > > >>>> ending up first working for the garment/apparel >> > > > > > >>>> workers >> union >> > in >> > > > > > >>>> Philadelphia and then at the Labor Educaiton Program >> > > > > > >>>> at >> the U >> > of >> > > > > > >>> Illinois, >> > > > > > >>>> from which I retired in 2010. >> > > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > >>>> The new twist to this story is about the employment of >> > academics >> > > > > > >>>> on short-term contracts in Viet Nam, under conditions >> > > > > > >>>> that >> > seem >> > > to >> > > > > > >>>> be increasingly frequent in the ?developing? world, >> > > > > > >>>> where >> the >> > > > > > >>>> market for education is booming. University World News >> > > http://www >> > > > . >> > > > > > >>>> universityworldnews.com/ tracks this phenomenon and >> includes >> > > > > > >> occasinal >> > > > > > >>>> critical articles about the competition for rankings. >> > > > > > >>>> The university >> > > > > > >>> where >> > > > > > >>>> my husband and I have been teaching on and off since >> > > > > > >>>> 2015, >> Ton >> > > Duc >> > > > > > >> Thang >> > > > > > >>> in >> > > > > > >>>> Ho Chi Minh City, recruits professors from all over >> > > > > > >>>> the >> world >> > > with >> > > > > > >>>> a promise of $2,000 per month US ? but extending their >> > contracts >> > > > > > >>>> depends >> > > > > > >> on >> > > > > > >>>> producing articles published in journals on the ISI >> > > > > > >>>> list; >> the >> > > > > > >>>> nature of this list is worth taking a look at. The >> > > > > > >>>> impact >> of >> > > this >> > > > > > >>>> practice on the culture and student body is not all bad. >> > > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > >>>> My point here is to place the issue of the challenge >> > > > > > >>>> of >> > getting >> > > a >> > > > > > >>>> tenure-track job in a global context. This is not just >> > > > > > >>>> an individual problem. >> > > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > >>>> I?m willing to go further down this line of discussion. >> > However, >> > > > > > >>> academics >> > > > > > >>>> are often reluctant to reveal and compare their >> > > > > > >>>> working >> > > conditions >> > > > > > >>>> on >> > > > > > >> an >> > > > > > >>>> ?academic? discussion list. Maybe by putting up the >> > > > > > >>>> issue >> of >> > > what >> > > > > > >>> academic >> > > > > > >>>> freedom requires, and how these requirements fare in >> > > > > > >>>> the >> > global >> > > > > > >>>> market >> > > > > > >>> for >> > > > > > >>>> higher education, we can shed the embarassment of >> > > > > > >>>> revealing information about our own experiences with >> > > > > > >>>> getting the >> brass >> > > ring >> > > > > > >>>> of a full-time, secure job. >> > > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > >>>> Let?s see if anyone picks up on this. Maybe I?m being >> > > > > > >>>> too >> > vague. >> > > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > >>>> Helena Worthen >> > > > > > >>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com Berkeley, CA 94707 >> > > > > > >>>> 510-828-2745 Blog US/ Viet Nam: >> > > > > > >>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >> > > > > > >>>> skype: helena.worthen1 >> > > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > >>>>> On Feb 19, 2018, at 9:19 AM, Huw Lloyd >> > > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > > >>>> wrote: >> > > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>> The article describes accumulating large amounts of >> knowledge >> > > > > > >>> pertaining >> > > > > > >>>> to >> > > > > > >>>>> history, which (the author maintains) cannot be >> > > > > > >>>>> turned to >> > other >> > > > > > >>>> endeavours. >> > > > > > >>>>> This, no doubt, is true for her. If, however, her >> approach to >> > > > > > >> studying >> > > > > > >>>>> history had been systemic, then there would have been >> > > > > > >>>>> a >> > > powerful >> > > > > > >>>>> form >> > > > > > >>> of >> > > > > > >>>>> re-application and continuity in any work that was >> > > > > > >>>>> turned >> to. >> > > > > > >>>>> Perhaps >> > > > > > >>> the >> > > > > > >>>>> same can be said for "phd/postdoc training". If it >> > > > > > >>>>> cannot >> be >> > > > > > >>>>> reused >> > > > > > >> or >> > > > > > >>>>> isn't enabling, what, substantively, is it? >> > > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>> Best, >> > > > > > >>>>> Huw >> > > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>> On 18 February 2018 at 18:32, Alfredo Jornet Gil < >> > > > > > >> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> >> > > > > > >>>>> wrote: >> > > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> Really inspiring words and work, Francine. I do see >> > community >> > > > > > >> colleges >> > > > > > >>>> and >> > > > > > >>>>>> many other educational settings apart from >> > > > > > >>>>>> universities >> as >> > > > > > >>>>>> really >> > > > > > >>>> valuable >> > > > > > >>>>>> and exciting opportunities; the PhD and following >> > > > > > >>>>>> postdoc >> > etc >> > > > > > >> training >> > > > > > >>>> in >> > > > > > >>>>>> universities, however, tend to be very much targeted >> > towards a >> > > > > > >>>>>> very >> > > > > > >>>> narrow >> > > > > > >>>>>> spectrum of positions, or at least that's been my >> > experience. >> > > I >> > > > > > >>>>>> am >> > > > > > >>> very >> > > > > > >>>>>> happy that this thread may widen that scope and make >> visible >> > > > > > >>>>>> other >> > > > > > >>>> paths. >> > > > > > >>>>>> And as Mike suggested, it would be very interesting >> > > > > > >>>>>> to >> hear >> > > > > > >>>>>> from >> > > > > > >>> several >> > > > > > >>>>>> others who have followed distinct trajectories apart >> > > > > > >>>>>> from >> > the >> > > > > > >>>>>> phd-postdoc-assist/assoc. prof-prof, and yet made a >> career >> > in >> > > > > > >>>>>> touch >> > > > > > >>> with >> > > > > > >>>>>> most of what was developed in the junior (phd and >> > > > > > >>>>>> few >> later) >> > > > > years. >> > > > > > >>>>>> Thanks! >> > > > > > >>>>>> Alfredo >> > > > > > >>>>>> ________________________________________ >> > > > > > >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> > > > > > > > > > > >>> edu> >> > > > > > >>>>>> on behalf of Larry Smolucha >> > > > > > >>>>>> Sent: 18 February 2018 06:20 >> > > > > > >>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >> > > > > > >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> Message from Francine Smolucha on a scholar's life >> > > > > > >>>>>> with >> or >> > > > > > >>>>>> without >> > > > > > >>>> academia >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> Alfredo, >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> There are other jobs that pay well (sometimes with >> > > > > > >>>>>> tenure >> > and >> > > > > > >>>>>> early retirement benefits) - besides professorships >> > > > > > >>>>>> at >> four >> > > > > > >>>>>> year colleges >> > > > > > >>> and >> > > > > > >>>>>> universities. Administrative and support staff >> > > > > > >>>>>> positions >> > pay >> > > > > well. >> > > > > > >>> And >> > > > > > >>>>>> don't overlook community colleges, technical >> > > > > > >>>>>> colleges, >> and >> > > > > > >>>>>> public >> > > > > > >>> grade >> > > > > > >>>>>> schools and high schools. There is also the private >> sector >> > and >> > > > > > >>>> government >> > > > > > >>>>>> jobs. >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> As a 'low status' community college professor, I >> > > > > > >>>>>> managed >> to >> > > > > > >> translate >> > > > > > >>>>>> Vygotsky's >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> overlooked writings on creativity (back in the >> > > > > > >>>>>> 1980's) >> and >> > > > > > >> introduced >> > > > > > >>>> his >> > > > > > >>>>>> theory of creativity to academia. I got early >> retirement at >> > > > > > >>>>>> age 53 >> > > > > > >>> and >> > > > > > >>>>>> continue to write and publish. While my Ph.D from >> > > > > > >>>>>> the University of >> > > > > > >>>> Chicago >> > > > > > >>>>>> gave me academic bona fides, it was the quality of >> > > > > > >>>>>> the scholarly >> > > > > > >> work >> > > > > > >>>> that >> > > > > > >>>>>> ultimately mattered. >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> I was always inspired by the harsh circumstances of >> > Vygotsky's >> > > > > > >>>>>> life >> > > > > > >>> and >> > > > > > >>>>>> how he still kept on writing. >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> [When I felt really sorry for myself, I would >> > > > > > >>>>>> actually >> say >> > > > > > >>>>>> "Well at >> > > > > > >>>> least >> > > > > > >>>>>> I am not coughing up blood"] >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> So many of his works were not published in his >> > > > > > >>>>>> lifetime, >> he >> > > did >> > > > > not >> > > > > > >>>>>> collect a royalties check, and they say he was >> depressed >> > at >> > > > the >> > > > > > >> end >> > > > > > >>>> of >> > > > > > >>>>>> his life. >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> I leave you with this quote from an ancient Sufi >> > > > > > >>>>>> mystic - >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> You can't always get what you want but you can get >> > > > > > >>>>>> what >> you >> > > > > > >>>>>> need >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> . >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> ________________________________ >> > > > > > >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> > > > > > > > > > > >>> edu> >> > > > > > >>>>>> on behalf of mike cole >> > > > > > >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:07 PM >> > > > > > >>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >> > > > > > >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> Yours is a quandary shared by your generation, Alfredo. >> > > > > > >>>>>> Being allowed to teach and conduct research in a >> > > > > > >>>>>> quality institution >> > > > > > >>> is >> > > > > > >>>> a >> > > > > > >>>>>> great privilege and an increasingly rarer >> > > > > > >>>>>> possibility. >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> There are several people on this list who have >> > > > > > >>>>>> organized >> > their >> > > > > > >>>>>> lives >> > > > > > >>> to >> > > > > > >>>> be >> > > > > > >>>>>> independent scholars while staying connected to the >> > > > > > >>>>>> core institutions of disciplinary >> > > > > > >>>> training. >> > > > > > >>>>>> It might be nice to hear the variety out there. >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> It appears pretty certain that the situation is >> > > > > > >>>>>> going to >> get >> > > > > > >>>>>> worse before/if it gets better. >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> What can the collective experience of xmca come up >> > > > > > >>>>>> with >> that >> > > > > > >>>>>> would >> > > > > > >> be >> > > > > > >>>>>> useful to the many >> > > > > > >>>>>> of you caught in this meat grinder? >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> mike >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil >> > > > > > >>>>>> < >> > > > > > >>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> >> > > > > > >>>>>> wrote: >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>>> Good luck then, Wagner! >> > > > > > >>>>>>> A >> > > > > > >>>>>>> ________________________________________ >> > > > > > >>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > >>> edu >> > > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>>> on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit < >> wagner.schmit@gmail.com> >> > > > > > >>>>>>> Sent: 18 February 2018 01:07 >> > > > > > >>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity >> > > > > > >>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >> > > > > > >>>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>>> This just hit me in the spot... >> > > > > > >>>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>>> Wagner >> > > > > > >>>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2018 9:48 PM, "Alfredo Jornet Gil" >> > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> wrote: >> > > > > > >>>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> I have not been able to contribute to this list as >> much as >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> I'd >> > > > > > >> like >> > > > > > >>> to >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> lately, among other things, because I need to find >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> a >> job, >> > > and >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> I >> > > > > > >> need >> > > > > > >>>> to >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> make sure that I have checked all those boxes that >> > selection >> > > > > > >>>> committees >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> will check (enough first-authored publications? in >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> good enough >> > > > > > >>>>>> journals? >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> acquiring >> > > > > > >>> funds? >> > > > > > >>>>>>> more >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> than all others candidates? and more than >> > > > > > >>> favoured-for-whatever-other- >> > > > > > >>>>>>> reasons >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these >> weeks >> > to >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> fill >> > > > > > >> up >> > > > > > >>> a >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> And, although I did not think that it was >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> particularly >> > well >> > > > > > >> written, >> > > > > > >>>> it >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> was both relieving and discouraging to read this >> article >> > > (see >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> link >> > > > > > >>>>>> below, >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> who >> I >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> think >> > > > > > >> also >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> subscribes this list). The article makes visible >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> the >> pain >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> scholars >> > > > > > >>> go >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> through when, after so many years of digging and >> digging >> > and >> > > > > > >>> digging a >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> leave it >> > and >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> find >> > > > > > >>> some >> > > > > > >>>>>>> other >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> who >> was >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> moving >> > > > > > >>>>>> through >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> the world with his lovely family, short-term >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> project >> after >> > > > > > >>> short-term >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> project, getting better and better at what he >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> worked on >> > > > > > >> (apparently >> > > > > > >>> he >> > > > > > >>>>>>> was >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> among the few who had expertise in computer >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> modeling simulating >> > > > > > >> some >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> astronomic events) , and finally having to step >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> out >> > academia >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> last >> > > > > > >>> year >> > > > > > >>>>>> to >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> find something else to do, for his family no >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> longer >> could >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> stand >> > > > > > >> the >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> me >> soon. >> > > And >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> that >> > > > > > >>> may >> > > > > > >>>>>>> not >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the >> story >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> seems to >> > > > > > >> be >> > > > > > >>>>>>> quite >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> endemic to academia and may be interesting to some >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> of >> you: >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Lo >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> ses- >> > > When/24 >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> 2560 >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> Alfredo >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> -- >> > > > > > >> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >> > > > > > >> Assistant Professor >> > > > > > >> Department of Anthropology >> > > > > > >> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University >> > > > > > >> Provo, UT 84602 >> > > > > > >> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu >> > > > > > >> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > -- >> > > > > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >> > > > > Assistant Professor >> > > > > Department of Anthropology >> > > > > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >> > > > > Brigham Young University >> > > > > Provo, UT 84602 >> > > > > WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu >> > > > > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >> > Assistant Professor >> > Department of Anthropology >> > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >> > Brigham Young University >> > Provo, UT 84602 >> > WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu >> > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >> > >> > > > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson From greg.a.thompson@gmail.com Wed Feb 28 20:47:34 2018 From: greg.a.thompson@gmail.com (Greg Thompson) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2018 21:47:34 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In-Reply-To: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AEE329@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> <1518914964416.39650@iped.uio.no> <1518978734957.93647@iped.uio.no> <87FCF1E0-1B28-4F92-A85C-9E5A10424B74@gmail.com> <1519110745104.46827@iped.uio.no> <1519598399026.36406@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AD5C72@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AEE329@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> Message-ID: Michael G, Yes, I think you've really hit the nail on the head in pointing to the ecology within which academia sits. Apologies for being a gadfly here and simply pointing to a problem without pointing to a solution. How about we turn back to Marx?: "For as soon as the distribution of labour comes into being, each man has a particular, exclusive sphere of activity, which is forced upon him and from which he cannot escape. He is a hunter, a fisherman, a herdsman, or a critical critic, and must remain so if he does not want to lose his means of livelihood; while in communist society, where nobody has one exclusive sphere of activity but each can become accomplished in any branch he wishes, society regulates the general production and thus makes it possible for me to do one thing today and another tomorrow, to hunt in the morning, fish in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening, criticise after dinner, just as I have a mind, without ever becoming hunter, fisherman, herdsman or critic. This fixation of social activity, this consolidation of what we ourselves produce into an objective power above us, growing out of our control, thwarting our expectations, bringing to naught our calculations, is one of the chief factors in historical development up till now." In Marx's view, we can all be academics (i.e., "critical critics"). What do you think? -greg On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 8:26 PM, Glassman, Michael wrote: > Hi Greg, > > Here is my question. If we go to slow academics how do we determine on the > distribution of resources? If we give people a lot of time to conduct > their work who gets that time? > > I think the scarcity of academic resources is very much a corporate > phenomenon. There really should be enough resources for everybody to pursue > academics as they wish. > > The peer review system and the publish or perish ethos is deeply flawed > and causes a lot of research that shouldn't be done, let alone published. > But if not at least a semblance of a level playing field you get with blind > review then how do you decide who deserves the resources. Is it based on > connections, networks, who you know, where you went to school? Does > cultural capital become that much more important? Is this less democratic > or more democratic? > > To tell you the truth I don't know. The flaw is in the scarcity though, > not the system it seems to me. That we have allowed for a large academic > diaspora to emerge that is forced to teach for little money and no > benefits. Something we all allowed to happen. > > Michael > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Greg Thompson > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2018 9:10 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > (oh, and I didn't mean to be exclusive in pointing to Michael's work, > there are many others on the list who would fit this description!) > > On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 7:08 PM, Greg Thompson > wrote: > > > Yes, Michael, totally agreed. And I see you as a rare exception to the > > production mill. Whereas you manage to prolifically produce important > > writings, much of what is published is, to my mind, written too > > hurriedly and lacks the quality and importance of publications like > yours. > > -greg > > > > > > On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 5:33 PM, Wolff-Michael Roth < > > wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> Greg, not all people will think being publishing machines. Some, like > >> myself, enjoy spending many hours a day writing, analyzing etc. and > >> turning all of this into peer-reviewed articles. > >> > >> I referred to my earliest experience before, when I was told I would > >> not make tenure; and I felt I would not be able to make the 2 > >> articles or so per year in high quality journals. > >> > >> But after an absence from academia, it changed. I started doing > >> research for myself initially, and then wrote it up. From then on, it > >> was different, writing was something I wanted to do, and the more I > >> did, the better I got at it. (Not that the peer-review process would > >> have gotten easier.) > >> > >> I do admit, though, that the system as set up right now then tends to > >> reward people who publish more than others, and in "better" journals. > >> > >> And it depends on context. In the department that I am affiliated > >> with, there are people promoted and tenured without at least a > >> handful of articles in commonly recognized journals. And if you are > >> happy with an average increase in your salary, you don't have to get > >> stressed in our place either. > >> > >> Michael > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 4:04 PM, Greg Thompson > >> >> > > >> wrote: > >> > >> > I once toyed with the idea of "slow scholarship" and I remain > >> > entirely convinced that this is a virtue. But once I was entered > >> > into the competition/race of academia, it was all about how fast > >> > you can get to > >> the > >> > finish line (aka "publications"). > >> > > >> > Perhaps there is something good about this (assuming that it is > >> > better > >> to > >> > publish something than to not publish anything), but it also has > >> > the nefarious effect of turning scholars into cogs in publishing > factories. > >> > > >> > And, continuing in this cynical spirit, I might add that the > >> > Science article about "Slow" actually seems to be making the same > >> > case for > >> speed - > >> > maybe it isn't a sprint, but it is still a race and first one to > >> > the > >> finish > >> > line wins, so you better pick up the pace! Fast! > >> > > >> > And re: the man whispering in his ear as he runs: > >> > "We see how in this way the mode of production and the means of > >> production > >> > are continually transformed, revolutionised, *how the division of > >> labour is > >> > necessarily followed by greater divisions of labour, the > >> > application of machinery by still greater application of machinery, > >> > work on a large > >> scale > >> > by work on a still larger scale.* > >> > > >> > "That is the law which again and again throws bourgeois production > >> > out > >> of > >> > its old course and which compels capital to intensify the > >> > productive > >> forces > >> > of labour, *because *it has intensified them, it, the law which > >> > gives capital no rest and continually whispers in its ear: 'Go on! Go > on!'" > >> > (Marx - Wage Labour and Capital). > >> > > >> > -greg? > >> > > >> > On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 3:11 PM, Wolff-Michael Roth < > >> > wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > > >> > > Hi all, > >> > > this article "In praise of slow" appears to be fitting the > discussion. > >> > The > >> > > author uses a nice analogy with running. Michael > >> > > http://science.sciencemag.org/content/359/6375/602 > >> > > > >> > > On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 8:40 AM, Huw Lloyd > >> > > >> > > >> > > wrote: > >> > > > >> > > > "Assessing their abilities and accomplishments in this regard > >> > > > was a > >> > > matter > >> > > > of judgment and so could not be quantified; it could be > >> > > > exercised > >> only > >> > by > >> > > > those capable of it." > >> > > > > >> > > > I would say, "cannot be quantified simply". > >> > > > > >> > > > Best, > >> > > > Huw > >> > > > > >> > > > On 26 February 2018 at 15:05, Greg Thompson < > >> greg.a.thompson@gmail.com > >> > > > >> > > > wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > > And here is a nice article that speaks to the bureaucratic > >> > > > > logic > >> > that I > >> > > > was > >> > > > > mentioning (the author refers to "the all-administrative > >> > institution"): > >> > > > > https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/whose-university-is-it- > >> anyway/#! > >> > > > > > >> > > > > A quote from it: > >> > > > > "The revolution is over and the administrators have won. But > >> > > > > the persistence of traditional structures and language has > >> > > > > led some to > >> > > think > >> > > > > that the fight over the institution is now just beginning. > >> > > > > This > >> is a > >> > > > > mistake. As with most revolutions, open conflict occurs only > >> > > > > after > >> > real > >> > > > > power has already changed hands." > >> > > > > > >> > > > > -greg > >> > > > > > >> > > > > On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 6:27 PM, Martin Packer < > >> mpacker@cantab.net> > >> > > > wrote: > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > On STEM and social science: > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > < >> > > > > > doctors-revolt-bernard-lown.html?action=click&pgtype= > >> > > > > > Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col- > >> > > > > > left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav= > >> > > > > > opinion-c-col-left-region >> > > > > > 02/24/opinion/sunday/doctors-revolt-bernard-lown.html? > >> > > > > > action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading& > >> > > > > > module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c-col- > >> > > > > > left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region>>> > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > On measures of learning: > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > - measure-learning-outcomes.html?action=click&pgtype= > >> > > > > > Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col- > >> > > > > > left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav= > >> > > > > > opinion-c-col-left-region >> > > > > > 02/23/opinion/sunday/colleges-measure-learning-outcomes. > >> > > > > > html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story- > >> > > > > > heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c- > >> > > > > > col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region>> > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Martin > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > On Feb 25, 2018, at 8:15 PM, Glassman, Michael < > >> > > glassman.13@osu.edu> > >> > > > > > wrote: > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Hi Huw, > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Perhaps the opposite is also true though. STEM > >> > > > > > > researchers > >> can > >> > > > better > >> > > > > > understand what they are doing if they are well versed in > >> > > > > > the > >> > social > >> > > > > > sciences. Understand the history and the meaning of what > >> > > > > > they > >> are > >> > > doing > >> > > > > so > >> > > > > > they do not act as androids (sorry, been watching the > >> > > > > > Aliens > >> > trilogy > >> > > of > >> > > > > > late). Perhaps we made the wrong calculation. We have lost > >> control > >> > of > >> > > > our > >> > > > > > great STEM innovations because the people using them don't > >> > understand > >> > > > the > >> > > > > > social webs that they create. So we have people pushing > >> > > > > > xMOOCs > >> > > > (whatever > >> > > > > > happened to MOOCs anyway) as saving education (and also a > >> bundle so > >> > > > > > everybody gets tax cuts, wheeee!), saying that they are > >> > > > > > good > >> > because > >> > > > they > >> > > > > > can reach many, the proverbial long tail, with great > >> > > > > > education > >> > > > (Harvard, > >> > > > > > Stanford). Yet nobody asks the question, "Why is this a > >> > > > > > good > >> > thing." > >> > > > > There > >> > > > > > really isn't much supporting this in earlier distance > education. > >> > > There > >> > > > > is > >> > > > > > actually more evidence of how dangerous it is > >> > > > > > (Participatory > >> Action > >> > > > > > Research). > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Michael > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > >> > > > > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >> > > > > > > [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > >> > > > > > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Huw Lloyd > >> > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2018 7:32 PM > >> > > > > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > I would ask, what makes you think you have an ecology (or > >> niche)? > >> > > It > >> > > > > > seems that the notion of topologically derived ecologies is > >> still > >> > > > bandied > >> > > > > > about since Bronfenbrenner (1977), though I do not know > >> > > > > > whether > >> he > >> > > > > managed > >> > > > > > to refine (overhaul and improve) his notions into something > >> > > integrated > >> > > > > and > >> > > > > > agent-centric. One does not provide an ecology or an > >> environment. > >> > The > >> > > > > > environment is different for everyone, a simple > >> > > > > > consideration > >> of a > >> > > > > > rock-face or climbing wall is sufficient to grasp this -- > >> > > > > > the so > >> > > called > >> > > > > > environment (the rock face) is different to each climber, > >> > > > > > their > >> > > > > environment > >> > > > > > is that which is appropriate to them which includes > >> > > > > > contexts > >> well > >> > > > beyond > >> > > > > > what is established in an institution. From what I can > >> > > > > > gauge, > >> > > > > historically, > >> > > > > > slack was deliberately introduced into courses to afford > >> personal > >> > > > > enquiry. > >> > > > > > > There was the basic work and then there was the genuine > >> enquiry. > >> > > Who > >> > > > in > >> > > > > > their right mind wants to write an exam essay on a question > >> > > > > > they > >> > are > >> > > > > > expected to pre-write and repeat by memory? Why would > >> > > > > > someone > >> who > >> > > > enjoys > >> > > > > > thinking about their subject want to go through that kind > >> > > > > > of > >> > > > impoverished > >> > > > > > tedium? These systems are obviously geared for "delivery". > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Perhaps the biggest cultural shift can be achieved > >> > > > > > > through > >> > > > instituting > >> > > > > > joint and personal enquiry. A teacher that stands before > >> > > > > > their > >> > class > >> > > > and > >> > > > > > delivers their subject inevitably obscures and obstructs > >> > > > > > the > >> > process > >> > > of > >> > > > > > enquiry, although many students will have learnt from a > >> > > > > > young > >> age > >> > > that > >> > > > > this > >> > > > > > is what to expect and demand. Engagement with genuine > >> > > > > > problems > >> > rather > >> > > > > than > >> > > > > > what students are expected to do is the basic orientational > >> issue. > >> > > > > Dispose > >> > > > > > of grades, then anyone who isn't interested is free to go > home. > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > The advance of STEM research is probably a good thing for > >> social > >> > > > > science. > >> > > > > > > For productive work, social science must understand the > >> structure > >> > > of > >> > > > > > STEM based work, in addition to bureaucratic processes and > >> > > > circumstances > >> > > > > > for creative work. Sticking one's head in the sand over > >> STEM-like > >> > > > > research > >> > > > > > serves merely to perpetuate the impoverished side of social > >> > science. > >> > > It > >> > > > > > reminds me of the scene in Pirsig's Zen and the Art of > >> Motorcycle > >> > > > > > Maintenance in which a couple lack the wherewithal to fix a > >> > dripping > >> > > > > faucet > >> > > > > > that gives them grief and instead choose to ignore it. > >> > > > > > Though it > >> > was > >> > > a > >> > > > > very > >> > > > > > long time ago, Pirsig's book may have contributed to my > >> > understanding > >> > > > of > >> > > > > > quality and might be thought of as an exploration of some > >> > > > > > social > >> > > issues > >> > > > > > pertaining to technical enterprises. Another good text to > >> > appreciate > >> > > > > > quality more directly, probably outside the formal area of > >> STEM, is > >> > > > > > Alshuller's Innovation Algorithm. > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Warm regards to you Henry, Greg, Alfredo. > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Best, > >> > > > > > > Huw > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > On 25 February 2018 at 22:39, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > >> > > > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > >> > > > > > > wrote: > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Greg, Huw, and others, I do often get worried that in > >> > > > > > >> the > >> > formals > >> > > > and > >> > > > > > >> informal meetings at our department (department of > >> education), > >> > > > > > >> conversations tend to focus on the "micro" developments > >> > > > > > >> that > >> you > >> > > > > > >> mention (students, grades, getting a next grant, getting > >> > > > > > >> that > >> > > paper > >> > > > > > >> published, making sure you've got enough) most of the > >> > > > > > >> time, > >> and > >> > > not > >> > > > so > >> > > > > > >> much on what society we would like to have, and how our > >> > > institution > >> > > > > > >> could/should contribute to that. I do not have any > >> suggestions > >> > on > >> > > > the > >> > > > > > >> type of studies that you ask about?dealing with how > >> ecologies of > >> > > > > > >> scholarship in academia lead to given developmental > >> > dynamics?other > >> > > > > > >> than the classical studies in STS, like Latour & > >> > > > > > >> Woolgar's on laboratory life, or S. L. Star's. But when > >> > > > > > >> I look forward at > >> > what > >> > > > lies > >> > > > > > >> between me (or anyone in my institution) and a change in > >> > > > > > >> the > >> way > >> > > > this > >> > > > > > >> institution has impact in the life of many, what I see > >> > > > > > >> is > >> lots > >> > of > >> > > > > > >> routines, habits, documents, and paperwork entangled in > >> > > > > > >> the > >> > > middle, > >> > > > > > >> such that the idea "mediation all the way through" makes > >> > > > > > >> all > >> the > >> > > > > > >> sense. And seeing things that way (from the ecological > >> > > perspective), > >> > > > > > >> makes the possibility of changing things to look > >> > > > > > >> actually > >> > > feasible, > >> > > > or > >> > > > > > >> more accurately perhaps, imagine-able. I'd like to > >> > > > > > >> continue > >> > being > >> > > > part > >> > > > > > >> of the ecology to be able to be also be part of its > >> > > > > > >> changing > >> > it. I > >> > > > > > >> hope others will bring more specific literature to bear. > >> > > > > > >> I am > >> > > > already > >> > > > > > downloading some of Peter Sloterdijk's to read. > >> > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> Alfredo > >> > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> ________________________________________ > >> > > > > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >> > > > > > >> on behalf of Greg > >> > > > > > >> Thompson > >> > > > > > >> Sent: 24 February 2018 17:45 > >> > > > > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >> > > > > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > >> > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> I appreciate Huw's concern about academia and the push > >> > > > > > >> to > >> orient > >> > > to > >> > > > a > >> > > > > > >> broader and more systemic concern with "development". I > >> > > > > > >> think > >> > that > >> > > > > > >> this is what institutions of higher education are > >> > > > > > >> supposed to > >> > > have, > >> > > > > > >> right? - at the very least a concern for the development > >> > > > > > >> of > >> > > > individual > >> > > > > > >> "students", but also, one would hope, a concern for > >> > "development" > >> > > > at a > >> > > > > > >> longer timescale (e.g., how to be a better society, a > >> > > > > > >> better > >> > > world). > >> > > > > > >> They certainly tout these in their promo materials. > >> > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> And yet, in practice, these institutions often fall back > >> > > > > > >> on bureaucratic or economic logics. Bureaucratic logic > >> > > > > > >> goes > >> > something > >> > > > > > >> like, "just publish (in "good" (i.e., high impact > >> > > > > > >> factor) > >> > > journals), > >> > > > > > >> who cares what you publish so long as we can count it to > >> > determine > >> > > > its > >> > > > > > (and your) 'value'(!)". > >> > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> As for the economic logic, I was just talking with Rick > >> Shweder > >> > > the > >> > > > > > >> other day about this issue and he expressed the concern > >> > > > > > >> about > >> > the > >> > > > push > >> > > > > > >> towards STEM education at the expense of all else and > >> > > > > > >> the way > >> > that > >> > > > > > >> STEM buildings are slowly starting to take over his > >> > > > > > >> campus > >> (the > >> > > > > > >> University of Chicago - a place that was long held to be > >> > > > > > >> a > >> hold > >> > > out > >> > > > of > >> > > > > > >> liberal arts education - apparently they now have an > >> engineering > >> > > > > > >> program). He suggested that this is tied to an early > >> > > > > > >> 80's > >> court > >> > > > > > >> decision that gave universities ownership of patents > >> developed > >> > on > >> > > > > their > >> > > > > > campuses. > >> > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> To my mind, this calls to mind a concern with ecologies > >> > > > > > >> of > >> > > > development > >> > > > > > >> (across the shorter and longer timescales). What are the > >> > ecologies > >> > > > > > >> (social, economic, political, etc.) within which > >> > > > > > >> development > >> (at > >> > > > these > >> > > > > > >> various > >> > > > > > >> timescales) occurs in our world today? This is really a > >> question > >> > > of > >> > > > > > >> what is possible and/or what is likely with regard to > >> becoming. > >> > > What > >> > > > > > >> are the forms of life and forms of development that are > >> > > sustainable > >> > > > > > >> given the larger ecologies in which that development > happens? > >> > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> And for thinking through that problem, I've had a hard > >> > > > > > >> time > >> > > thinking > >> > > > > > >> of anyone who has better thought through this problem > >> > > > > > >> than > >> Marx > >> > - > >> > > at > >> > > > > > >> the longer timescale of development, that is (Vygotsky > >> would, of > >> > > > > > >> course, be better at thinking through development at the > >> shorter > >> > > > > > >> timescale of ontogeny). > >> > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> I'd love to hear others' thoughts on those who have > >> > > > > > >> studied > >> > > > activities > >> > > > > > >> that can begin to shed light on these ecologies of > >> development > >> > > > > > >> (particularly at the longer timescale). Any > >> > thoughts/suggestions? > >> > > I > >> > > > > > >> would imagine this work considering various kinds of > >> > institutions > >> > > > that > >> > > > > > >> run the gamut - from venture capitalist firms to > >> > > > > > >> non-profits > >> to > >> > > > > > >> governmental institutions to institutions of higher > >> education. I > >> > > > would > >> > > > > > >> presume that each of these kinds of institutions would > >> > > > > > >> have a > >> > > local > >> > > > > > >> ecology within which they work, but I am tempted to > >> > > > > > >> imagine > >> some > >> > > > kind > >> > > > > > >> of global meta-ecology (perhaps Marx's "global > >> > > > > > >> capitalism"?) within which each of these local ecologies > >> > operates. > >> > > > I'd > >> > > > > > >> be curious about actual research that has been done > >> documenting > >> > > the > >> > > > > > >> nature of these ecologies - e.g., what kinds of > >> > > > > > >> resources are available to be exploited? What kinds of > >> > > > > > >> possibilities are > >> there > >> > > for > >> > > > > > >> different forms of life? What institutional organisms > >> > > > > > >> can > >> > thrive? > >> > > > > > >> Which are dying off? (and just to be clear, I am > >> > > > > > >> intending a biological/evolutionary nature of the > metaphor). > >> > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> It seems that this kind of work would be most likely to > >> > > > > > >> have > >> > been > >> > > > done > >> > > > > > >> by folks in the CHAT world, but perhaps the scale (of > >> > > > > > >> time > >> and > >> > > > space) > >> > > > > > >> is a bit beyond the scales that CHAT folks prefer to > >> consider? > >> > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> (I should add that I've recently discovered the work of > >> > > > > > >> Peter Sloterdijk's Bubbles trilogy and am curious if > >> > > > > > >> anyone has any > >> > > > thoughts > >> > > > > > >> on the value of his approach - it seems to fit very well > >> > > > > > >> with > >> > Marx > >> > > > and > >> > > > > > >> with CHAT/Vygotsky, my only initial concern was that he > >> seems to > >> > > > fly a > >> > > > > > >> little fast and loose with pyschoanalytics at times - > >> > > > > > >> not a > >> > > serious > >> > > > > > >> problem, but perhaps in a few places). > >> > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> Sympathetically, > >> > > > > > >> greg > >> > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 1:57 PM, Huw Lloyd < > >> > > > huw.softdesigns@gmail.com > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> wrote: > >> > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >>> Well, I would say there is more to it than simply > >> > > transfer-ability, > >> > > > > > >>> which might be thought of as a good bureaucratic > >> requirement. > >> > > > Really > >> > > > > > >>> what is required is genuine development -- > >> > > > > > >>> reorganisation of > >> > > > thought > >> > > > > > >>> and > >> > > > > > >> learning. > >> > > > > > >>> That is what is significant at a personal level, which > >> > > > > > >>> is > >> also > >> > > the > >> > > > > > >>> basis > >> > > > > > >> of > >> > > > > > >>> insights and creative work (i.e. personal knowledge > >> > > > > > >>> rather > >> than > >> > > > > > >>> second > >> > > > > > >> hand > >> > > > > > >>> knowledge). The researcher in the blog article does not > >> evince > >> > > this > >> > > > > > >>> (with allusions to the nature of her training). There > >> > > > > > >>> is the > >> > > > history > >> > > > > > >>> school children learn, which largely concerns the use > >> > > > > > >>> of > >> > memory, > >> > > > and > >> > > > > > >>> then there > >> > > > > > >> is > >> > > > > > >>> the history of conditions, relations and processes, > >> > > > > > >>> which > >> > > concerns > >> > > > > > >>> protracted thought. This developmental emphasis is what > >> > > > > > >>> is > >> > > lacking > >> > > > > > >>> in institutions which is why I have frequently pointed > >> > > > > > >>> it > >> out. > >> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > >>> This principle apples to "secure" jobs too. The jobs I > >> > > > > > >>> have > >> > > walked > >> > > > > > >>> away from have been due to the overly narrow scope, > >> > > > > > >>> where I > >> > felt > >> > > it > >> > > > > > >>> was necessary to be far more ambitious to achieve > >> > > > > > >>> modest satisfaction, an ambition which included > >> > > > > > >>> achieving the wider > >> > > scope > >> > > > > > >>> within the norms established. Similar issues pertain to > >> > > > > > >>> my peripheral engagement with academia. Twenty years > >> > > > > > >>> ago, after completing a masters in cognitive > >> > > > > > >> science > >> > > > > > >>> (a good year), I decided against pursuing any further > >> > > > > > >>> formal education > >> > > > > > >> with > >> > > > > > >>> any immediacy due to my sense that what I was > >> > > > > > >>> encountering > >> in > >> > the > >> > > > > > >>> subject (and related subjects) was fundamentally wrong > >> > > > > > >>> or inadequate, but I couldn't quite discern what that > >> > > > > > >>> was. So, > >> for > >> > > me, > >> > > > > > >>> I had no interest in furthering the academic course at > >> > > > > > >>> the > >> > time, > >> > > > > > >>> because I was concerned with understanding, doing, > >> discovering > >> > > and > >> > > > > > >>> development, not being a "good researcher". I was and > >> > > > > > >>> am uninterested in the trappings of academia, what it > >> > > > > > >>> looks > >> like > >> > > from > >> > > > > > >>> the outside (with dubious ethics of promoting those in > >> society > >> > > who > >> > > > > > >>> least need it) -- hence I am not too bothered about > >> > > > > > >>> where > >> the > >> > > > > > >>> experiences come from. After all, if you want sound > >> knowledge > >> > > then > >> > > > > > >>> it should be validated in places where it counts (in > >> action), > >> > not > >> > > > in > >> > > > > > an echo chamber of words. > >> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > >>>> From my (developmental) perspective academia appears > >> > > > > > >>>> to be chockfull of > >> > > > > > >>> unproductive thinking. The lack of systems > >> > > > > > >>> understanding in > >> the > >> > > > > > >>> social sciences (which has been pointed out by key > >> > > > > > >>> persons > >> for > >> > > two > >> > > > > > >>> generations) > >> > > > > > >> I > >> > > > > > >>> find to be quite incredible. This, as far as I can see, > >> > > > > > >>> is > >> the > >> > > > > > >>> panacea to the stasis and lethargy that I have seen in > >> certain > >> > > > > > >>> institutions, where there are people in secure jobs > >> > > > > > >>> with no > >> > > > interest > >> > > > > > >>> in revitalising an institution (perhaps the same people > >> > > > > > >>> who > >> > rely > >> > > > > > >>> upon their status for authority). In the UK, in the > >> > > > > > >>> social > >> > > > sciences, > >> > > > > > >>> the whole social science infrastructure is built upon a > >> notion > >> > of > >> > > > > > >>> quality that is ignorant of systems -- that is the > >> > > > > > >>> degree to > >> > > which > >> > > > > > >>> unproductive thinking has > >> > > > > > >> penetrated > >> > > > > > >>> social science. > >> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > >>> Yet there is much more to it still. Recently I have > >> > > > > > >>> also > >> come > >> > to > >> > > a > >> > > > > > >>> surprising awareness that developmental prerogatives > >> > > > > > >>> have > >> > rather > >> > > a > >> > > > > > >>> significant amount in common with spiritual ones. So I > >> > > > > > >>> would > >> > > offer > >> > > > > > >> broader > >> > > > > > >>> advice than Michael's of staying clear of hardship. It > >> > > > > > >>> may > >> be > >> > > that > >> > > > > > >>> in > >> > > > > > >> that > >> > > > > > >>> "nadir" something surprising may be discovered. For > >> > > > > > >>> anyone > >> > with a > >> > > > > > >>> passion "job security" is not a goal, at best it is a > >> > > > > > >>> means > >> to > >> > an > >> > > > > > >>> ends, at worst > >> > > > > > >> it > >> > > > > > >>> is an obstacle. > >> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > >>> Over and out. :) > >> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > >>> Best, > >> > > > > > >>> Huw > >> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > >>> On 20 February 2018 at 07:12, Alfredo Jornet Gil > >> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > >>> wrote: > >> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > >>>> Huw, Helena, and all, > >> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > > >>>> thanks to you both for taking the discussion where I > >> > > > > > >>>> was > >> > hoping > >> > > it > >> > > > > > >>>> to > >> > > > > > >> go > >> > > > > > >>>> further: first, towards a reflection on the nature of > >> training > >> > > > > > >>>> academic scholars go through as it concerns the > >> > > > > > >>>> classical > >> > > problem > >> > > > > > >>>> of learning "transfer"; and then, as it regards the > >> question > >> > of > >> > > > > > >>>> academic freedom > >> > > > > > >>> (which > >> > > > > > >>>> actually may be the same question, just taken in a > >> > > > > > >>>> language > >> > more > >> > > > > > >> adequate > >> > > > > > >>>> to an ecological understanding of the problem). This > >> > > > > > >>>> is > >> > > absolutely > >> > > > > > >>>> not > >> > > > > > >>> just > >> > > > > > >>>> an individual problem. And, on that matter, I should > >> > > > > > >>>> be > >> clear > >> > > that > >> > > > > > >>>> I > >> > > > > > >> am a > >> > > > > > >>>> privileged in a privileged land, where, despite all > >> > uncertainty > >> > > > > > >>>> and > >> > > > > > >> pains > >> > > > > > >>>> that my family have gone and go through, I have today > >> > > > > > >>>> a > >> good > >> > > > > > >>>> background > >> > > > > > >>> and > >> > > > > > >>>> network, and probably better prospects than the > >> > > > > > >>>> majority of > >> > > junior > >> > > > > > >>> scholars > >> > > > > > >>>> out there. Not that I have earned this privilege for > >> nothing: > >> > my > >> > > > > > >> migrant > >> > > > > > >>>> history and that of my family is all connected to an > >> > > > > > >>>> effort > >> > and > >> > > > > > >>>> quest > >> > > > > > >> to > >> > > > > > >>>> get better chances of academic opportunity in this > >> > > > > > >>>> market > >> > Helena > >> > > > > > >>>> talks about. But my personal story, as that of the > >> historian > >> > in > >> > > > > > >>>> the article shared or of my French astronomer friend, > >> > > > > > >>>> are > >> > > relevant > >> > > > > > >>>> in as far as > >> > > > > > >> they > >> > > > > > >>>> help us reflect on just those questions. They really > >> > > > > > >>>> also > >> make > >> > > one > >> > > > > > >> wonder > >> > > > > > >>>> on the sense of the term "academic freedom", for the > >> > > > > > >>>> latter > >> > term > >> > > > > > >>>> cannot > >> > > > > > >>> be > >> > > > > > >>>> about doing whatever research you want to do > >> > > > > > >>>> independently > >> of > >> > > some > >> > > > > > >> market > >> > > > > > >>>> conditions and societal needs and economy. We may then > >> > > > > > >>>> pose > >> > the > >> > > > > > >>> questions, > >> > > > > > >>>> what type of "freedom" is the "freedom" current > >> > > > > > >>>> systems (of incentives, > >> > > > > > >>> of > >> > > > > > >>>> ISI lists) afford, and what type of system could allow > >> > > > > > >>>> for > >> > > another > >> > > > > > >>> meaning > >> > > > > > >>>> of the term "freedom"? > >> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > > >>>> Not to get too abstract, I guess that those > >> > > > > > >>>> reflections > >> may be > >> > > > > > >>>> best pondered along concrete cases, if people is > >> > > > > > >>>> willing to > >> > take > >> > > > > > >>>> on Helena's suggestion to share particular stories of > >> > > > > > >>>> all > >> that > >> > > > > > >>>> goes into getting > >> > > > > > >> into > >> > > > > > >>>> secured academic job positions, or else, of pursuing > >> > > (in)dependent > >> > > > > > >>> careers > >> > > > > > >>>> outside/at the borders of/across academia. > >> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > > >>>> Alfredo > >> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > > >>>> ________________________________________ > >> > > > > > >>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >> > > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > >>>> on behalf of Helena Worthen > >> > > > > > >>>> Sent: 19 February 2018 19:19 > >> > > > > > >>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >> > > > > > >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > >> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > > >>>> In the interests of widening the discussion: > >> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > > >>>> I?ve described my work history before on this list ? > >> > basically, > >> > > > > > >>>> moving from teaching literature and writing (with > >> stopovers in > >> > > > > > >>>> landscape architecture and theater production) to > >> > > > > > >>>> concern > >> > about > >> > > > > > >>>> the working conditions of teachers, especially > >> > > > > > >>>> academics in > >> > > higher > >> > > > > > >>>> education, the > >> > > > > > >> 75% > >> > > > > > >>>> who are contingent/adjuncts. The concern is both for > >> > > > > > >>>> the > >> > people > >> > > > > > >> employed > >> > > > > > >>>> this way and for the integrity of the institutions > >> > > > > > >>>> that > >> employ > >> > > > > > >>>> them. I eventually engaged this concern by working > >> > > > > > >>>> with and > >> > for > >> > > > > > >>>> the labor > >> > > > > > >>> movement, > >> > > > > > >>>> ending up first working for the garment/apparel > >> > > > > > >>>> workers > >> union > >> > in > >> > > > > > >>>> Philadelphia and then at the Labor Educaiton Program > >> > > > > > >>>> at > >> the U > >> > of > >> > > > > > >>> Illinois, > >> > > > > > >>>> from which I retired in 2010. > >> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > > >>>> The new twist to this story is about the employment of > >> > academics > >> > > > > > >>>> on short-term contracts in Viet Nam, under conditions > >> > > > > > >>>> that > >> > seem > >> > > to > >> > > > > > >>>> be increasingly frequent in the ?developing? world, > >> > > > > > >>>> where > >> the > >> > > > > > >>>> market for education is booming. University World News > >> > > http://www > >> > > > . > >> > > > > > >>>> universityworldnews.com/ tracks this phenomenon and > >> includes > >> > > > > > >> occasinal > >> > > > > > >>>> critical articles about the competition for rankings. > >> > > > > > >>>> The university > >> > > > > > >>> where > >> > > > > > >>>> my husband and I have been teaching on and off since > >> > > > > > >>>> 2015, > >> Ton > >> > > Duc > >> > > > > > >> Thang > >> > > > > > >>> in > >> > > > > > >>>> Ho Chi Minh City, recruits professors from all over > >> > > > > > >>>> the > >> world > >> > > with > >> > > > > > >>>> a promise of $2,000 per month US ? but extending their > >> > contracts > >> > > > > > >>>> depends > >> > > > > > >> on > >> > > > > > >>>> producing articles published in journals on the ISI > >> > > > > > >>>> list; > >> the > >> > > > > > >>>> nature of this list is worth taking a look at. The > >> > > > > > >>>> impact > >> of > >> > > this > >> > > > > > >>>> practice on the culture and student body is not all bad. > >> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > > >>>> My point here is to place the issue of the challenge > >> > > > > > >>>> of > >> > getting > >> > > a > >> > > > > > >>>> tenure-track job in a global context. This is not just > >> > > > > > >>>> an individual problem. > >> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > > >>>> I?m willing to go further down this line of discussion. > >> > However, > >> > > > > > >>> academics > >> > > > > > >>>> are often reluctant to reveal and compare their > >> > > > > > >>>> working > >> > > conditions > >> > > > > > >>>> on > >> > > > > > >> an > >> > > > > > >>>> ?academic? discussion list. Maybe by putting up the > >> > > > > > >>>> issue > >> of > >> > > what > >> > > > > > >>> academic > >> > > > > > >>>> freedom requires, and how these requirements fare in > >> > > > > > >>>> the > >> > global > >> > > > > > >>>> market > >> > > > > > >>> for > >> > > > > > >>>> higher education, we can shed the embarassment of > >> > > > > > >>>> revealing information about our own experiences with > >> > > > > > >>>> getting the > >> brass > >> > > ring > >> > > > > > >>>> of a full-time, secure job. > >> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > > >>>> Let?s see if anyone picks up on this. Maybe I?m being > >> > > > > > >>>> too > >> > vague. > >> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > > >>>> Helena Worthen > >> > > > > > >>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com Berkeley, CA 94707 > >> > > > > > >>>> 510-828-2745 Blog US/ Viet Nam: > >> > > > > > >>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com > >> > > > > > >>>> skype: helena.worthen1 > >> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>> On Feb 19, 2018, at 9:19 AM, Huw Lloyd > >> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>> wrote: > >> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>> The article describes accumulating large amounts of > >> knowledge > >> > > > > > >>> pertaining > >> > > > > > >>>> to > >> > > > > > >>>>> history, which (the author maintains) cannot be > >> > > > > > >>>>> turned to > >> > other > >> > > > > > >>>> endeavours. > >> > > > > > >>>>> This, no doubt, is true for her. If, however, her > >> approach to > >> > > > > > >> studying > >> > > > > > >>>>> history had been systemic, then there would have been > >> > > > > > >>>>> a > >> > > powerful > >> > > > > > >>>>> form > >> > > > > > >>> of > >> > > > > > >>>>> re-application and continuity in any work that was > >> > > > > > >>>>> turned > >> to. > >> > > > > > >>>>> Perhaps > >> > > > > > >>> the > >> > > > > > >>>>> same can be said for "phd/postdoc training". If it > >> > > > > > >>>>> cannot > >> be > >> > > > > > >>>>> reused > >> > > > > > >> or > >> > > > > > >>>>> isn't enabling, what, substantively, is it? > >> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>> Best, > >> > > > > > >>>>> Huw > >> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>> On 18 February 2018 at 18:32, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > >> > > > > > >> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > >> > > > > > >>>>> wrote: > >> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> Really inspiring words and work, Francine. I do see > >> > community > >> > > > > > >> colleges > >> > > > > > >>>> and > >> > > > > > >>>>>> many other educational settings apart from > >> > > > > > >>>>>> universities > >> as > >> > > > > > >>>>>> really > >> > > > > > >>>> valuable > >> > > > > > >>>>>> and exciting opportunities; the PhD and following > >> > > > > > >>>>>> postdoc > >> > etc > >> > > > > > >> training > >> > > > > > >>>> in > >> > > > > > >>>>>> universities, however, tend to be very much targeted > >> > towards a > >> > > > > > >>>>>> very > >> > > > > > >>>> narrow > >> > > > > > >>>>>> spectrum of positions, or at least that's been my > >> > experience. > >> > > I > >> > > > > > >>>>>> am > >> > > > > > >>> very > >> > > > > > >>>>>> happy that this thread may widen that scope and make > >> visible > >> > > > > > >>>>>> other > >> > > > > > >>>> paths. > >> > > > > > >>>>>> And as Mike suggested, it would be very interesting > >> > > > > > >>>>>> to > >> hear > >> > > > > > >>>>>> from > >> > > > > > >>> several > >> > > > > > >>>>>> others who have followed distinct trajectories apart > >> > > > > > >>>>>> from > >> > the > >> > > > > > >>>>>> phd-postdoc-assist/assoc. prof-prof, and yet made a > >> career > >> > in > >> > > > > > >>>>>> touch > >> > > > > > >>> with > >> > > > > > >>>>>> most of what was developed in the junior (phd and > >> > > > > > >>>>>> few > >> later) > >> > > > > years. > >> > > > > > >>>>>> Thanks! > >> > > > > > >>>>>> Alfredo > >> > > > > > >>>>>> ________________________________________ > >> > > > > > >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >> > > > > >> > > > > > >>> edu> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> on behalf of Larry Smolucha > >> > > > > > >>>>>> Sent: 18 February 2018 06:20 > >> > > > > > >>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >> > > > > > >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> Message from Francine Smolucha on a scholar's life > >> > > > > > >>>>>> with > >> or > >> > > > > > >>>>>> without > >> > > > > > >>>> academia > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> Alfredo, > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> There are other jobs that pay well (sometimes with > >> > > > > > >>>>>> tenure > >> > and > >> > > > > > >>>>>> early retirement benefits) - besides professorships > >> > > > > > >>>>>> at > >> four > >> > > > > > >>>>>> year colleges > >> > > > > > >>> and > >> > > > > > >>>>>> universities. Administrative and support staff > >> > > > > > >>>>>> positions > >> > pay > >> > > > > well. > >> > > > > > >>> And > >> > > > > > >>>>>> don't overlook community colleges, technical > >> > > > > > >>>>>> colleges, > >> and > >> > > > > > >>>>>> public > >> > > > > > >>> grade > >> > > > > > >>>>>> schools and high schools. There is also the private > >> sector > >> > and > >> > > > > > >>>> government > >> > > > > > >>>>>> jobs. > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> As a 'low status' community college professor, I > >> > > > > > >>>>>> managed > >> to > >> > > > > > >> translate > >> > > > > > >>>>>> Vygotsky's > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> overlooked writings on creativity (back in the > >> > > > > > >>>>>> 1980's) > >> and > >> > > > > > >> introduced > >> > > > > > >>>> his > >> > > > > > >>>>>> theory of creativity to academia. I got early > >> retirement at > >> > > > > > >>>>>> age 53 > >> > > > > > >>> and > >> > > > > > >>>>>> continue to write and publish. While my Ph.D from > >> > > > > > >>>>>> the University of > >> > > > > > >>>> Chicago > >> > > > > > >>>>>> gave me academic bona fides, it was the quality of > >> > > > > > >>>>>> the scholarly > >> > > > > > >> work > >> > > > > > >>>> that > >> > > > > > >>>>>> ultimately mattered. > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> I was always inspired by the harsh circumstances of > >> > Vygotsky's > >> > > > > > >>>>>> life > >> > > > > > >>> and > >> > > > > > >>>>>> how he still kept on writing. > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> [When I felt really sorry for myself, I would > >> > > > > > >>>>>> actually > >> say > >> > > > > > >>>>>> "Well at > >> > > > > > >>>> least > >> > > > > > >>>>>> I am not coughing up blood"] > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> So many of his works were not published in his > >> > > > > > >>>>>> lifetime, > >> he > >> > > did > >> > > > > not > >> > > > > > >>>>>> collect a royalties check, and they say he was > >> depressed > >> > at > >> > > > the > >> > > > > > >> end > >> > > > > > >>>> of > >> > > > > > >>>>>> his life. > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> I leave you with this quote from an ancient Sufi > >> > > > > > >>>>>> mystic - > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> You can't always get what you want but you can get > >> > > > > > >>>>>> what > >> you > >> > > > > > >>>>>> need > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> . > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> ________________________________ > >> > > > > > >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >> > > > > >> > > > > > >>> edu> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> on behalf of mike cole > >> > > > > > >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:07 PM > >> > > > > > >>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >> > > > > > >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> Yours is a quandary shared by your generation, Alfredo. > >> > > > > > >>>>>> Being allowed to teach and conduct research in a > >> > > > > > >>>>>> quality institution > >> > > > > > >>> is > >> > > > > > >>>> a > >> > > > > > >>>>>> great privilege and an increasingly rarer > >> > > > > > >>>>>> possibility. > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> There are several people on this list who have > >> > > > > > >>>>>> organized > >> > their > >> > > > > > >>>>>> lives > >> > > > > > >>> to > >> > > > > > >>>> be > >> > > > > > >>>>>> independent scholars while staying connected to the > >> > > > > > >>>>>> core institutions of disciplinary > >> > > > > > >>>> training. > >> > > > > > >>>>>> It might be nice to hear the variety out there. > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> It appears pretty certain that the situation is > >> > > > > > >>>>>> going to > >> get > >> > > > > > >>>>>> worse before/if it gets better. > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> What can the collective experience of xmca come up > >> > > > > > >>>>>> with > >> that > >> > > > > > >>>>>> would > >> > > > > > >> be > >> > > > > > >>>>>> useful to the many > >> > > > > > >>>>>> of you caught in this meat grinder? > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> mike > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > >> > > > > > >>>>>> < > >> > > > > > >>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> wrote: > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>>> Good luck then, Wagner! > >> > > > > > >>>>>>> A > >> > > > > > >>>>>>> ________________________________________ > >> > > > > > >>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >>> edu > >> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>>> on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit < > >> wagner.schmit@gmail.com> > >> > > > > > >>>>>>> Sent: 18 February 2018 01:07 > >> > > > > > >>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity > >> > > > > > >>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > >> > > > > > >>>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>>> This just hit me in the spot... > >> > > > > > >>>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>>> Wagner > >> > > > > > >>>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2018 9:48 PM, "Alfredo Jornet Gil" > >> > > > > > >>>>>>> >> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> wrote: > >> > > > > > >>>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> I have not been able to contribute to this list as > >> much as > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> I'd > >> > > > > > >> like > >> > > > > > >>> to > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> lately, among other things, because I need to find > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> a > >> job, > >> > > and > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> I > >> > > > > > >> need > >> > > > > > >>>> to > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> make sure that I have checked all those boxes that > >> > selection > >> > > > > > >>>> committees > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> will check (enough first-authored publications? in > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> good enough > >> > > > > > >>>>>> journals? > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> acquiring > >> > > > > > >>> funds? > >> > > > > > >>>>>>> more > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> than all others candidates? and more than > >> > > > > > >>> favoured-for-whatever-other- > >> > > > > > >>>>>>> reasons > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these > >> weeks > >> > to > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> fill > >> > > > > > >> up > >> > > > > > >>> a > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> And, although I did not think that it was > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> particularly > >> > well > >> > > > > > >> written, > >> > > > > > >>>> it > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> was both relieving and discouraging to read this > >> article > >> > > (see > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> link > >> > > > > > >>>>>> below, > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> who > >> I > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> think > >> > > > > > >> also > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> subscribes this list). The article makes visible > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> the > >> pain > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> scholars > >> > > > > > >>> go > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> through when, after so many years of digging and > >> digging > >> > and > >> > > > > > >>> digging a > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> leave it > >> > and > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> find > >> > > > > > >>> some > >> > > > > > >>>>>>> other > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> who > >> was > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> moving > >> > > > > > >>>>>> through > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> the world with his lovely family, short-term > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> project > >> after > >> > > > > > >>> short-term > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> project, getting better and better at what he > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> worked on > >> > > > > > >> (apparently > >> > > > > > >>> he > >> > > > > > >>>>>>> was > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> among the few who had expertise in computer > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> modeling simulating > >> > > > > > >> some > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> astronomic events) , and finally having to step > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> out > >> > academia > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> last > >> > > > > > >>> year > >> > > > > > >>>>>> to > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> find something else to do, for his family no > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> longer > >> could > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> stand > >> > > > > > >> the > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> me > >> soon. > >> > > And > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> that > >> > > > > > >>> may > >> > > > > > >>>>>>> not > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the > >> story > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> seems to > >> > > > > > >> be > >> > > > > > >>>>>>> quite > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> endemic to academia and may be interesting to some > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> of > >> you: > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Lo > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> ses- > >> > > When/24 > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> 2560 > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> Alfredo > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> -- > >> > > > > > >> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > >> > > > > > >> Assistant Professor > >> > > > > > >> Department of Anthropology > >> > > > > > >> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University > >> > > > > > >> Provo, UT 84602 > >> > > > > > >> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu > >> > > > > > >> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > >> > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > -- > >> > > > > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > >> > > > > Assistant Professor > >> > > > > Department of Anthropology > >> > > > > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > >> > > > > Brigham Young University > >> > > > > Provo, UT 84602 > >> > > > > WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu > >> > > > > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > >> > Assistant Professor > >> > Department of Anthropology > >> > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > >> > Brigham Young University > >> > Provo, UT 84602 > >> > WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu > >> > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > > Assistant Professor > > Department of Anthropology > > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > > Brigham Young University > > Provo, UT 84602 > > WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu > > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > > > > > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > > -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Wed Feb 28 22:38:42 2018 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2018 06:38:42 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Do you have a 2003 AERA conference program?? In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: <1519886322684.28754@iped.uio.no> Ops! things happen, Beth! Happy you got the request addressed though, thanks, Alfredo ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Beth Ferholt Sent: 01 March 2018 00:07 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Cc: Eugene Matusov Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Do you have a 2003 AERA conference program?? Oh dear -- I did not mean to send to all, I didn't see this was not just to you ; ) -- I'll have to change it now I suppose, but just ask me if you want me to search the program for any times and dates and I hope you'll come to our playworld presentation! Beth On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 6:05 PM, Beth Ferholt wrote: > Sure but it is up now -- here is my passworld and ID: > > *bferholt, AERAnyc123* > > On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 1:10 PM, Ana Marjanovic-Shane > wrote: > >> Dear all, >> >> Does someone have a book of the 2003 AERA conference program? It is not >> online, and Eugene and I need to check something in it. >> Please send us a message privatelly if you do have this program, and we >> will let you know what we are looking for and ask if you can check it for >> us. >> >> We really appreciate your help. >> >> Thanks a lot, >> >> Ana and Eugene >> -- >> *Ana Marjanovic-Shane, Ph.D.* >> Independent Scholar, Professor of Education >> Dialogic Pedagogy Journal, deputy Editor-in-Chief (dpj.pitt.edu) >> e-mail: anamshane@gmail.com >> Phone: +1 267-334-2905 >> > > > > -- > Beth Ferholt > Associate Professor > Department of Early Childhood and Art Education > Brooklyn College, City University of New York > 2900 Bedford Avenue > Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 > > Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu > Phone: (718) 951-5205 > Fax: (718) 951-4816 > -- Beth Ferholt Associate Professor Department of Early Childhood and Art Education Brooklyn College, City University of New York 2900 Bedford Avenue Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu Phone: (718) 951-5205 Fax: (718) 951-4816 From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Wed Feb 28 22:55:36 2018 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2018 06:55:36 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In-Reply-To: References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> <1518914964416.39650@iped.uio.no> <1518978734957.93647@iped.uio.no> <87FCF1E0-1B28-4F92-A85C-9E5A10424B74@gmail.com> <1519110745104.46827@iped.uio.no> <1519598399026.36406@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AD5C72@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AEE329@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu>, Message-ID: <1519887325986.67284@iped.uio.no> Absolutely Greg; fishing in the morning and criticising after dinner sounds really good to me! Marx's formulation seems totally relevant here, and his sounds like an ecological perspective too, but with subject, with content (where other formulations sound to me very useful, yet somehow content-less, abstract, I guess). But, where does a communist society begin? Or perhaps the question is, when does it begin? And what can current caught-up critical critics do to go fishing in the morning, apart from running races to secure steadily raising salaries in current society? Those well read Marxists could come handy here and give us a hand and help us getting started! Alfredo ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Greg Thompson Sent: 01 March 2018 05:47 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship Michael G, Yes, I think you've really hit the nail on the head in pointing to the ecology within which academia sits. Apologies for being a gadfly here and simply pointing to a problem without pointing to a solution. How about we turn back to Marx?: "For as soon as the distribution of labour comes into being, each man has a particular, exclusive sphere of activity, which is forced upon him and from which he cannot escape. He is a hunter, a fisherman, a herdsman, or a critical critic, and must remain so if he does not want to lose his means of livelihood; while in communist society, where nobody has one exclusive sphere of activity but each can become accomplished in any branch he wishes, society regulates the general production and thus makes it possible for me to do one thing today and another tomorrow, to hunt in the morning, fish in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening, criticise after dinner, just as I have a mind, without ever becoming hunter, fisherman, herdsman or critic. This fixation of social activity, this consolidation of what we ourselves produce into an objective power above us, growing out of our control, thwarting our expectations, bringing to naught our calculations, is one of the chief factors in historical development up till now." In Marx's view, we can all be academics (i.e., "critical critics"). What do you think? -greg On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 8:26 PM, Glassman, Michael wrote: > Hi Greg, > > Here is my question. If we go to slow academics how do we determine on the > distribution of resources? If we give people a lot of time to conduct > their work who gets that time? > > I think the scarcity of academic resources is very much a corporate > phenomenon. There really should be enough resources for everybody to pursue > academics as they wish. > > The peer review system and the publish or perish ethos is deeply flawed > and causes a lot of research that shouldn't be done, let alone published. > But if not at least a semblance of a level playing field you get with blind > review then how do you decide who deserves the resources. Is it based on > connections, networks, who you know, where you went to school? Does > cultural capital become that much more important? Is this less democratic > or more democratic? > > To tell you the truth I don't know. The flaw is in the scarcity though, > not the system it seems to me. That we have allowed for a large academic > diaspora to emerge that is forced to teach for little money and no > benefits. Something we all allowed to happen. > > Michael > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Greg Thompson > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2018 9:10 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > (oh, and I didn't mean to be exclusive in pointing to Michael's work, > there are many others on the list who would fit this description!) > > On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 7:08 PM, Greg Thompson > wrote: > > > Yes, Michael, totally agreed. And I see you as a rare exception to the > > production mill. Whereas you manage to prolifically produce important > > writings, much of what is published is, to my mind, written too > > hurriedly and lacks the quality and importance of publications like > yours. > > -greg > > > > > > On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 5:33 PM, Wolff-Michael Roth < > > wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> Greg, not all people will think being publishing machines. Some, like > >> myself, enjoy spending many hours a day writing, analyzing etc. and > >> turning all of this into peer-reviewed articles. > >> > >> I referred to my earliest experience before, when I was told I would > >> not make tenure; and I felt I would not be able to make the 2 > >> articles or so per year in high quality journals. > >> > >> But after an absence from academia, it changed. I started doing > >> research for myself initially, and then wrote it up. From then on, it > >> was different, writing was something I wanted to do, and the more I > >> did, the better I got at it. (Not that the peer-review process would > >> have gotten easier.) > >> > >> I do admit, though, that the system as set up right now then tends to > >> reward people who publish more than others, and in "better" journals. > >> > >> And it depends on context. In the department that I am affiliated > >> with, there are people promoted and tenured without at least a > >> handful of articles in commonly recognized journals. And if you are > >> happy with an average increase in your salary, you don't have to get > >> stressed in our place either. > >> > >> Michael > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 4:04 PM, Greg Thompson > >> >> > > >> wrote: > >> > >> > I once toyed with the idea of "slow scholarship" and I remain > >> > entirely convinced that this is a virtue. But once I was entered > >> > into the competition/race of academia, it was all about how fast > >> > you can get to > >> the > >> > finish line (aka "publications"). > >> > > >> > Perhaps there is something good about this (assuming that it is > >> > better > >> to > >> > publish something than to not publish anything), but it also has > >> > the nefarious effect of turning scholars into cogs in publishing > factories. > >> > > >> > And, continuing in this cynical spirit, I might add that the > >> > Science article about "Slow" actually seems to be making the same > >> > case for > >> speed - > >> > maybe it isn't a sprint, but it is still a race and first one to > >> > the > >> finish > >> > line wins, so you better pick up the pace! Fast! > >> > > >> > And re: the man whispering in his ear as he runs: > >> > "We see how in this way the mode of production and the means of > >> production > >> > are continually transformed, revolutionised, *how the division of > >> labour is > >> > necessarily followed by greater divisions of labour, the > >> > application of machinery by still greater application of machinery, > >> > work on a large > >> scale > >> > by work on a still larger scale.* > >> > > >> > "That is the law which again and again throws bourgeois production > >> > out > >> of > >> > its old course and which compels capital to intensify the > >> > productive > >> forces > >> > of labour, *because *it has intensified them, it, the law which > >> > gives capital no rest and continually whispers in its ear: 'Go on! Go > on!'" > >> > (Marx - Wage Labour and Capital). > >> > > >> > -greg? > >> > > >> > On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 3:11 PM, Wolff-Michael Roth < > >> > wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > > >> > > Hi all, > >> > > this article "In praise of slow" appears to be fitting the > discussion. > >> > The > >> > > author uses a nice analogy with running. Michael > >> > > http://science.sciencemag.org/content/359/6375/602 > >> > > > >> > > On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 8:40 AM, Huw Lloyd > >> > > >> > > >> > > wrote: > >> > > > >> > > > "Assessing their abilities and accomplishments in this regard > >> > > > was a > >> > > matter > >> > > > of judgment and so could not be quantified; it could be > >> > > > exercised > >> only > >> > by > >> > > > those capable of it." > >> > > > > >> > > > I would say, "cannot be quantified simply". > >> > > > > >> > > > Best, > >> > > > Huw > >> > > > > >> > > > On 26 February 2018 at 15:05, Greg Thompson < > >> greg.a.thompson@gmail.com > >> > > > >> > > > wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > > And here is a nice article that speaks to the bureaucratic > >> > > > > logic > >> > that I > >> > > > was > >> > > > > mentioning (the author refers to "the all-administrative > >> > institution"): > >> > > > > https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/whose-university-is-it- > >> anyway/#! > >> > > > > > >> > > > > A quote from it: > >> > > > > "The revolution is over and the administrators have won. But > >> > > > > the persistence of traditional structures and language has > >> > > > > led some to > >> > > think > >> > > > > that the fight over the institution is now just beginning. > >> > > > > This > >> is a > >> > > > > mistake. As with most revolutions, open conflict occurs only > >> > > > > after > >> > real > >> > > > > power has already changed hands." > >> > > > > > >> > > > > -greg > >> > > > > > >> > > > > On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 6:27 PM, Martin Packer < > >> mpacker@cantab.net> > >> > > > wrote: > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > On STEM and social science: > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > < >> > > > > > doctors-revolt-bernard-lown.html?action=click&pgtype= > >> > > > > > Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col- > >> > > > > > left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav= > >> > > > > > opinion-c-col-left-region >> > > > > > 02/24/opinion/sunday/doctors-revolt-bernard-lown.html? > >> > > > > > action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading& > >> > > > > > module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c-col- > >> > > > > > left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region>>> > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > On measures of learning: > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > - measure-learning-outcomes.html?action=click&pgtype= > >> > > > > > Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col- > >> > > > > > left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav= > >> > > > > > opinion-c-col-left-region >> > > > > > 02/23/opinion/sunday/colleges-measure-learning-outcomes. > >> > > > > > html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story- > >> > > > > > heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c- > >> > > > > > col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region>> > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Martin > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > On Feb 25, 2018, at 8:15 PM, Glassman, Michael < > >> > > glassman.13@osu.edu> > >> > > > > > wrote: > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Hi Huw, > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Perhaps the opposite is also true though. STEM > >> > > > > > > researchers > >> can > >> > > > better > >> > > > > > understand what they are doing if they are well versed in > >> > > > > > the > >> > social > >> > > > > > sciences. Understand the history and the meaning of what > >> > > > > > they > >> are > >> > > doing > >> > > > > so > >> > > > > > they do not act as androids (sorry, been watching the > >> > > > > > Aliens > >> > trilogy > >> > > of > >> > > > > > late). Perhaps we made the wrong calculation. We have lost > >> control > >> > of > >> > > > our > >> > > > > > great STEM innovations because the people using them don't > >> > understand > >> > > > the > >> > > > > > social webs that they create. So we have people pushing > >> > > > > > xMOOCs > >> > > > (whatever > >> > > > > > happened to MOOCs anyway) as saving education (and also a > >> bundle so > >> > > > > > everybody gets tax cuts, wheeee!), saying that they are > >> > > > > > good > >> > because > >> > > > they > >> > > > > > can reach many, the proverbial long tail, with great > >> > > > > > education > >> > > > (Harvard, > >> > > > > > Stanford). Yet nobody asks the question, "Why is this a > >> > > > > > good > >> > thing." > >> > > > > There > >> > > > > > really isn't much supporting this in earlier distance > education. > >> > > There > >> > > > > is > >> > > > > > actually more evidence of how dangerous it is > >> > > > > > (Participatory > >> Action > >> > > > > > Research). > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Michael > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > >> > > > > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >> > > > > > > [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > >> > > > > > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Huw Lloyd > >> > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2018 7:32 PM > >> > > > > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > I would ask, what makes you think you have an ecology (or > >> niche)? > >> > > It > >> > > > > > seems that the notion of topologically derived ecologies is > >> still > >> > > > bandied > >> > > > > > about since Bronfenbrenner (1977), though I do not know > >> > > > > > whether > >> he > >> > > > > managed > >> > > > > > to refine (overhaul and improve) his notions into something > >> > > integrated > >> > > > > and > >> > > > > > agent-centric. One does not provide an ecology or an > >> environment. > >> > The > >> > > > > > environment is different for everyone, a simple > >> > > > > > consideration > >> of a > >> > > > > > rock-face or climbing wall is sufficient to grasp this -- > >> > > > > > the so > >> > > called > >> > > > > > environment (the rock face) is different to each climber, > >> > > > > > their > >> > > > > environment > >> > > > > > is that which is appropriate to them which includes > >> > > > > > contexts > >> well > >> > > > beyond > >> > > > > > what is established in an institution. From what I can > >> > > > > > gauge, > >> > > > > historically, > >> > > > > > slack was deliberately introduced into courses to afford > >> personal > >> > > > > enquiry. > >> > > > > > > There was the basic work and then there was the genuine > >> enquiry. > >> > > Who > >> > > > in > >> > > > > > their right mind wants to write an exam essay on a question > >> > > > > > they > >> > are > >> > > > > > expected to pre-write and repeat by memory? Why would > >> > > > > > someone > >> who > >> > > > enjoys > >> > > > > > thinking about their subject want to go through that kind > >> > > > > > of > >> > > > impoverished > >> > > > > > tedium? These systems are obviously geared for "delivery". > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Perhaps the biggest cultural shift can be achieved > >> > > > > > > through > >> > > > instituting > >> > > > > > joint and personal enquiry. A teacher that stands before > >> > > > > > their > >> > class > >> > > > and > >> > > > > > delivers their subject inevitably obscures and obstructs > >> > > > > > the > >> > process > >> > > of > >> > > > > > enquiry, although many students will have learnt from a > >> > > > > > young > >> age > >> > > that > >> > > > > this > >> > > > > > is what to expect and demand. Engagement with genuine > >> > > > > > problems > >> > rather > >> > > > > than > >> > > > > > what students are expected to do is the basic orientational > >> issue. > >> > > > > Dispose > >> > > > > > of grades, then anyone who isn't interested is free to go > home. > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > The advance of STEM research is probably a good thing for > >> social > >> > > > > science. > >> > > > > > > For productive work, social science must understand the > >> structure > >> > > of > >> > > > > > STEM based work, in addition to bureaucratic processes and > >> > > > circumstances > >> > > > > > for creative work. Sticking one's head in the sand over > >> STEM-like > >> > > > > research > >> > > > > > serves merely to perpetuate the impoverished side of social > >> > science. > >> > > It > >> > > > > > reminds me of the scene in Pirsig's Zen and the Art of > >> Motorcycle > >> > > > > > Maintenance in which a couple lack the wherewithal to fix a > >> > dripping > >> > > > > faucet > >> > > > > > that gives them grief and instead choose to ignore it. > >> > > > > > Though it > >> > was > >> > > a > >> > > > > very > >> > > > > > long time ago, Pirsig's book may have contributed to my > >> > understanding > >> > > > of > >> > > > > > quality and might be thought of as an exploration of some > >> > > > > > social > >> > > issues > >> > > > > > pertaining to technical enterprises. Another good text to > >> > appreciate > >> > > > > > quality more directly, probably outside the formal area of > >> STEM, is > >> > > > > > Alshuller's Innovation Algorithm. > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Warm regards to you Henry, Greg, Alfredo. > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Best, > >> > > > > > > Huw > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > On 25 February 2018 at 22:39, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > >> > > > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > >> > > > > > > wrote: > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Greg, Huw, and others, I do often get worried that in > >> > > > > > >> the > >> > formals > >> > > > and > >> > > > > > >> informal meetings at our department (department of > >> education), > >> > > > > > >> conversations tend to focus on the "micro" developments > >> > > > > > >> that > >> you > >> > > > > > >> mention (students, grades, getting a next grant, getting > >> > > > > > >> that > >> > > paper > >> > > > > > >> published, making sure you've got enough) most of the > >> > > > > > >> time, > >> and > >> > > not > >> > > > so > >> > > > > > >> much on what society we would like to have, and how our > >> > > institution > >> > > > > > >> could/should contribute to that. I do not have any > >> suggestions > >> > on > >> > > > the > >> > > > > > >> type of studies that you ask about?dealing with how > >> ecologies of > >> > > > > > >> scholarship in academia lead to given developmental > >> > dynamics?other > >> > > > > > >> than the classical studies in STS, like Latour & > >> > > > > > >> Woolgar's on laboratory life, or S. L. Star's. But when > >> > > > > > >> I look forward at > >> > what > >> > > > lies > >> > > > > > >> between me (or anyone in my institution) and a change in > >> > > > > > >> the > >> way > >> > > > this > >> > > > > > >> institution has impact in the life of many, what I see > >> > > > > > >> is > >> lots > >> > of > >> > > > > > >> routines, habits, documents, and paperwork entangled in > >> > > > > > >> the > >> > > middle, > >> > > > > > >> such that the idea "mediation all the way through" makes > >> > > > > > >> all > >> the > >> > > > > > >> sense. And seeing things that way (from the ecological > >> > > perspective), > >> > > > > > >> makes the possibility of changing things to look > >> > > > > > >> actually > >> > > feasible, > >> > > > or > >> > > > > > >> more accurately perhaps, imagine-able. I'd like to > >> > > > > > >> continue > >> > being > >> > > > part > >> > > > > > >> of the ecology to be able to be also be part of its > >> > > > > > >> changing > >> > it. I > >> > > > > > >> hope others will bring more specific literature to bear. > >> > > > > > >> I am > >> > > > already > >> > > > > > downloading some of Peter Sloterdijk's to read. > >> > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> Alfredo > >> > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> ________________________________________ > >> > > > > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >> > > > > > >> on behalf of Greg > >> > > > > > >> Thompson > >> > > > > > >> Sent: 24 February 2018 17:45 > >> > > > > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >> > > > > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > >> > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> I appreciate Huw's concern about academia and the push > >> > > > > > >> to > >> orient > >> > > to > >> > > > a > >> > > > > > >> broader and more systemic concern with "development". I > >> > > > > > >> think > >> > that > >> > > > > > >> this is what institutions of higher education are > >> > > > > > >> supposed to > >> > > have, > >> > > > > > >> right? - at the very least a concern for the development > >> > > > > > >> of > >> > > > individual > >> > > > > > >> "students", but also, one would hope, a concern for > >> > "development" > >> > > > at a > >> > > > > > >> longer timescale (e.g., how to be a better society, a > >> > > > > > >> better > >> > > world). > >> > > > > > >> They certainly tout these in their promo materials. > >> > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> And yet, in practice, these institutions often fall back > >> > > > > > >> on bureaucratic or economic logics. Bureaucratic logic > >> > > > > > >> goes > >> > something > >> > > > > > >> like, "just publish (in "good" (i.e., high impact > >> > > > > > >> factor) > >> > > journals), > >> > > > > > >> who cares what you publish so long as we can count it to > >> > determine > >> > > > its > >> > > > > > (and your) 'value'(!)". > >> > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> As for the economic logic, I was just talking with Rick > >> Shweder > >> > > the > >> > > > > > >> other day about this issue and he expressed the concern > >> > > > > > >> about > >> > the > >> > > > push > >> > > > > > >> towards STEM education at the expense of all else and > >> > > > > > >> the way > >> > that > >> > > > > > >> STEM buildings are slowly starting to take over his > >> > > > > > >> campus > >> (the > >> > > > > > >> University of Chicago - a place that was long held to be > >> > > > > > >> a > >> hold > >> > > out > >> > > > of > >> > > > > > >> liberal arts education - apparently they now have an > >> engineering > >> > > > > > >> program). He suggested that this is tied to an early > >> > > > > > >> 80's > >> court > >> > > > > > >> decision that gave universities ownership of patents > >> developed > >> > on > >> > > > > their > >> > > > > > campuses. > >> > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> To my mind, this calls to mind a concern with ecologies > >> > > > > > >> of > >> > > > development > >> > > > > > >> (across the shorter and longer timescales). What are the > >> > ecologies > >> > > > > > >> (social, economic, political, etc.) within which > >> > > > > > >> development > >> (at > >> > > > these > >> > > > > > >> various > >> > > > > > >> timescales) occurs in our world today? This is really a > >> question > >> > > of > >> > > > > > >> what is possible and/or what is likely with regard to > >> becoming. > >> > > What > >> > > > > > >> are the forms of life and forms of development that are > >> > > sustainable > >> > > > > > >> given the larger ecologies in which that development > happens? > >> > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> And for thinking through that problem, I've had a hard > >> > > > > > >> time > >> > > thinking > >> > > > > > >> of anyone who has better thought through this problem > >> > > > > > >> than > >> Marx > >> > - > >> > > at > >> > > > > > >> the longer timescale of development, that is (Vygotsky > >> would, of > >> > > > > > >> course, be better at thinking through development at the > >> shorter > >> > > > > > >> timescale of ontogeny). > >> > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> I'd love to hear others' thoughts on those who have > >> > > > > > >> studied > >> > > > activities > >> > > > > > >> that can begin to shed light on these ecologies of > >> development > >> > > > > > >> (particularly at the longer timescale). Any > >> > thoughts/suggestions? > >> > > I > >> > > > > > >> would imagine this work considering various kinds of > >> > institutions > >> > > > that > >> > > > > > >> run the gamut - from venture capitalist firms to > >> > > > > > >> non-profits > >> to > >> > > > > > >> governmental institutions to institutions of higher > >> education. I > >> > > > would > >> > > > > > >> presume that each of these kinds of institutions would > >> > > > > > >> have a > >> > > local > >> > > > > > >> ecology within which they work, but I am tempted to > >> > > > > > >> imagine > >> some > >> > > > kind > >> > > > > > >> of global meta-ecology (perhaps Marx's "global > >> > > > > > >> capitalism"?) within which each of these local ecologies > >> > operates. > >> > > > I'd > >> > > > > > >> be curious about actual research that has been done > >> documenting > >> > > the > >> > > > > > >> nature of these ecologies - e.g., what kinds of > >> > > > > > >> resources are available to be exploited? What kinds of > >> > > > > > >> possibilities are > >> there > >> > > for > >> > > > > > >> different forms of life? What institutional organisms > >> > > > > > >> can > >> > thrive? > >> > > > > > >> Which are dying off? (and just to be clear, I am > >> > > > > > >> intending a biological/evolutionary nature of the > metaphor). > >> > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> It seems that this kind of work would be most likely to > >> > > > > > >> have > >> > been > >> > > > done > >> > > > > > >> by folks in the CHAT world, but perhaps the scale (of > >> > > > > > >> time > >> and > >> > > > space) > >> > > > > > >> is a bit beyond the scales that CHAT folks prefer to > >> consider? > >> > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> (I should add that I've recently discovered the work of > >> > > > > > >> Peter Sloterdijk's Bubbles trilogy and am curious if > >> > > > > > >> anyone has any > >> > > > thoughts > >> > > > > > >> on the value of his approach - it seems to fit very well > >> > > > > > >> with > >> > Marx > >> > > > and > >> > > > > > >> with CHAT/Vygotsky, my only initial concern was that he > >> seems to > >> > > > fly a > >> > > > > > >> little fast and loose with pyschoanalytics at times - > >> > > > > > >> not a > >> > > serious > >> > > > > > >> problem, but perhaps in a few places). > >> > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> Sympathetically, > >> > > > > > >> greg > >> > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 1:57 PM, Huw Lloyd < > >> > > > huw.softdesigns@gmail.com > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> wrote: > >> > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >>> Well, I would say there is more to it than simply > >> > > transfer-ability, > >> > > > > > >>> which might be thought of as a good bureaucratic > >> requirement. > >> > > > Really > >> > > > > > >>> what is required is genuine development -- > >> > > > > > >>> reorganisation of > >> > > > thought > >> > > > > > >>> and > >> > > > > > >> learning. > >> > > > > > >>> That is what is significant at a personal level, which > >> > > > > > >>> is > >> also > >> > > the > >> > > > > > >>> basis > >> > > > > > >> of > >> > > > > > >>> insights and creative work (i.e. personal knowledge > >> > > > > > >>> rather > >> than > >> > > > > > >>> second > >> > > > > > >> hand > >> > > > > > >>> knowledge). The researcher in the blog article does not > >> evince > >> > > this > >> > > > > > >>> (with allusions to the nature of her training). There > >> > > > > > >>> is the > >> > > > history > >> > > > > > >>> school children learn, which largely concerns the use > >> > > > > > >>> of > >> > memory, > >> > > > and > >> > > > > > >>> then there > >> > > > > > >> is > >> > > > > > >>> the history of conditions, relations and processes, > >> > > > > > >>> which > >> > > concerns > >> > > > > > >>> protracted thought. This developmental emphasis is what > >> > > > > > >>> is > >> > > lacking > >> > > > > > >>> in institutions which is why I have frequently pointed > >> > > > > > >>> it > >> out. > >> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > >>> This principle apples to "secure" jobs too. The jobs I > >> > > > > > >>> have > >> > > walked > >> > > > > > >>> away from have been due to the overly narrow scope, > >> > > > > > >>> where I > >> > felt > >> > > it > >> > > > > > >>> was necessary to be far more ambitious to achieve > >> > > > > > >>> modest satisfaction, an ambition which included > >> > > > > > >>> achieving the wider > >> > > scope > >> > > > > > >>> within the norms established. Similar issues pertain to > >> > > > > > >>> my peripheral engagement with academia. Twenty years > >> > > > > > >>> ago, after completing a masters in cognitive > >> > > > > > >> science > >> > > > > > >>> (a good year), I decided against pursuing any further > >> > > > > > >>> formal education > >> > > > > > >> with > >> > > > > > >>> any immediacy due to my sense that what I was > >> > > > > > >>> encountering > >> in > >> > the > >> > > > > > >>> subject (and related subjects) was fundamentally wrong > >> > > > > > >>> or inadequate, but I couldn't quite discern what that > >> > > > > > >>> was. So, > >> for > >> > > me, > >> > > > > > >>> I had no interest in furthering the academic course at > >> > > > > > >>> the > >> > time, > >> > > > > > >>> because I was concerned with understanding, doing, > >> discovering > >> > > and > >> > > > > > >>> development, not being a "good researcher". I was and > >> > > > > > >>> am uninterested in the trappings of academia, what it > >> > > > > > >>> looks > >> like > >> > > from > >> > > > > > >>> the outside (with dubious ethics of promoting those in > >> society > >> > > who > >> > > > > > >>> least need it) -- hence I am not too bothered about > >> > > > > > >>> where > >> the > >> > > > > > >>> experiences come from. After all, if you want sound > >> knowledge > >> > > then > >> > > > > > >>> it should be validated in places where it counts (in > >> action), > >> > not > >> > > > in > >> > > > > > an echo chamber of words. > >> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > >>>> From my (developmental) perspective academia appears > >> > > > > > >>>> to be chockfull of > >> > > > > > >>> unproductive thinking. The lack of systems > >> > > > > > >>> understanding in > >> the > >> > > > > > >>> social sciences (which has been pointed out by key > >> > > > > > >>> persons > >> for > >> > > two > >> > > > > > >>> generations) > >> > > > > > >> I > >> > > > > > >>> find to be quite incredible. This, as far as I can see, > >> > > > > > >>> is > >> the > >> > > > > > >>> panacea to the stasis and lethargy that I have seen in > >> certain > >> > > > > > >>> institutions, where there are people in secure jobs > >> > > > > > >>> with no > >> > > > interest > >> > > > > > >>> in revitalising an institution (perhaps the same people > >> > > > > > >>> who > >> > rely > >> > > > > > >>> upon their status for authority). In the UK, in the > >> > > > > > >>> social > >> > > > sciences, > >> > > > > > >>> the whole social science infrastructure is built upon a > >> notion > >> > of > >> > > > > > >>> quality that is ignorant of systems -- that is the > >> > > > > > >>> degree to > >> > > which > >> > > > > > >>> unproductive thinking has > >> > > > > > >> penetrated > >> > > > > > >>> social science. > >> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > >>> Yet there is much more to it still. Recently I have > >> > > > > > >>> also > >> come > >> > to > >> > > a > >> > > > > > >>> surprising awareness that developmental prerogatives > >> > > > > > >>> have > >> > rather > >> > > a > >> > > > > > >>> significant amount in common with spiritual ones. So I > >> > > > > > >>> would > >> > > offer > >> > > > > > >> broader > >> > > > > > >>> advice than Michael's of staying clear of hardship. It > >> > > > > > >>> may > >> be > >> > > that > >> > > > > > >>> in > >> > > > > > >> that > >> > > > > > >>> "nadir" something surprising may be discovered. For > >> > > > > > >>> anyone > >> > with a > >> > > > > > >>> passion "job security" is not a goal, at best it is a > >> > > > > > >>> means > >> to > >> > an > >> > > > > > >>> ends, at worst > >> > > > > > >> it > >> > > > > > >>> is an obstacle. > >> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > >>> Over and out. :) > >> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > >>> Best, > >> > > > > > >>> Huw > >> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > >>> On 20 February 2018 at 07:12, Alfredo Jornet Gil > >> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > >>> wrote: > >> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > >>>> Huw, Helena, and all, > >> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > > >>>> thanks to you both for taking the discussion where I > >> > > > > > >>>> was > >> > hoping > >> > > it > >> > > > > > >>>> to > >> > > > > > >> go > >> > > > > > >>>> further: first, towards a reflection on the nature of > >> training > >> > > > > > >>>> academic scholars go through as it concerns the > >> > > > > > >>>> classical > >> > > problem > >> > > > > > >>>> of learning "transfer"; and then, as it regards the > >> question > >> > of > >> > > > > > >>>> academic freedom > >> > > > > > >>> (which > >> > > > > > >>>> actually may be the same question, just taken in a > >> > > > > > >>>> language > >> > more > >> > > > > > >> adequate > >> > > > > > >>>> to an ecological understanding of the problem). This > >> > > > > > >>>> is > >> > > absolutely > >> > > > > > >>>> not > >> > > > > > >>> just > >> > > > > > >>>> an individual problem. And, on that matter, I should > >> > > > > > >>>> be > >> clear > >> > > that > >> > > > > > >>>> I > >> > > > > > >> am a > >> > > > > > >>>> privileged in a privileged land, where, despite all > >> > uncertainty > >> > > > > > >>>> and > >> > > > > > >> pains > >> > > > > > >>>> that my family have gone and go through, I have today > >> > > > > > >>>> a > >> good > >> > > > > > >>>> background > >> > > > > > >>> and > >> > > > > > >>>> network, and probably better prospects than the > >> > > > > > >>>> majority of > >> > > junior > >> > > > > > >>> scholars > >> > > > > > >>>> out there. Not that I have earned this privilege for > >> nothing: > >> > my > >> > > > > > >> migrant > >> > > > > > >>>> history and that of my family is all connected to an > >> > > > > > >>>> effort > >> > and > >> > > > > > >>>> quest > >> > > > > > >> to > >> > > > > > >>>> get better chances of academic opportunity in this > >> > > > > > >>>> market > >> > Helena > >> > > > > > >>>> talks about. But my personal story, as that of the > >> historian > >> > in > >> > > > > > >>>> the article shared or of my French astronomer friend, > >> > > > > > >>>> are > >> > > relevant > >> > > > > > >>>> in as far as > >> > > > > > >> they > >> > > > > > >>>> help us reflect on just those questions. They really > >> > > > > > >>>> also > >> make > >> > > one > >> > > > > > >> wonder > >> > > > > > >>>> on the sense of the term "academic freedom", for the > >> > > > > > >>>> latter > >> > term > >> > > > > > >>>> cannot > >> > > > > > >>> be > >> > > > > > >>>> about doing whatever research you want to do > >> > > > > > >>>> independently > >> of > >> > > some > >> > > > > > >> market > >> > > > > > >>>> conditions and societal needs and economy. We may then > >> > > > > > >>>> pose > >> > the > >> > > > > > >>> questions, > >> > > > > > >>>> what type of "freedom" is the "freedom" current > >> > > > > > >>>> systems (of incentives, > >> > > > > > >>> of > >> > > > > > >>>> ISI lists) afford, and what type of system could allow > >> > > > > > >>>> for > >> > > another > >> > > > > > >>> meaning > >> > > > > > >>>> of the term "freedom"? > >> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > > >>>> Not to get too abstract, I guess that those > >> > > > > > >>>> reflections > >> may be > >> > > > > > >>>> best pondered along concrete cases, if people is > >> > > > > > >>>> willing to > >> > take > >> > > > > > >>>> on Helena's suggestion to share particular stories of > >> > > > > > >>>> all > >> that > >> > > > > > >>>> goes into getting > >> > > > > > >> into > >> > > > > > >>>> secured academic job positions, or else, of pursuing > >> > > (in)dependent > >> > > > > > >>> careers > >> > > > > > >>>> outside/at the borders of/across academia. > >> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > > >>>> Alfredo > >> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > > >>>> ________________________________________ > >> > > > > > >>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >> > > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > >>>> on behalf of Helena Worthen > >> > > > > > >>>> Sent: 19 February 2018 19:19 > >> > > > > > >>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >> > > > > > >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > >> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > > >>>> In the interests of widening the discussion: > >> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > > >>>> I?ve described my work history before on this list ? > >> > basically, > >> > > > > > >>>> moving from teaching literature and writing (with > >> stopovers in > >> > > > > > >>>> landscape architecture and theater production) to > >> > > > > > >>>> concern > >> > about > >> > > > > > >>>> the working conditions of teachers, especially > >> > > > > > >>>> academics in > >> > > higher > >> > > > > > >>>> education, the > >> > > > > > >> 75% > >> > > > > > >>>> who are contingent/adjuncts. The concern is both for > >> > > > > > >>>> the > >> > people > >> > > > > > >> employed > >> > > > > > >>>> this way and for the integrity of the institutions > >> > > > > > >>>> that > >> employ > >> > > > > > >>>> them. I eventually engaged this concern by working > >> > > > > > >>>> with and > >> > for > >> > > > > > >>>> the labor > >> > > > > > >>> movement, > >> > > > > > >>>> ending up first working for the garment/apparel > >> > > > > > >>>> workers > >> union > >> > in > >> > > > > > >>>> Philadelphia and then at the Labor Educaiton Program > >> > > > > > >>>> at > >> the U > >> > of > >> > > > > > >>> Illinois, > >> > > > > > >>>> from which I retired in 2010. > >> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > > >>>> The new twist to this story is about the employment of > >> > academics > >> > > > > > >>>> on short-term contracts in Viet Nam, under conditions > >> > > > > > >>>> that > >> > seem > >> > > to > >> > > > > > >>>> be increasingly frequent in the ?developing? world, > >> > > > > > >>>> where > >> the > >> > > > > > >>>> market for education is booming. University World News > >> > > http://www > >> > > > . > >> > > > > > >>>> universityworldnews.com/ tracks this phenomenon and > >> includes > >> > > > > > >> occasinal > >> > > > > > >>>> critical articles about the competition for rankings. > >> > > > > > >>>> The university > >> > > > > > >>> where > >> > > > > > >>>> my husband and I have been teaching on and off since > >> > > > > > >>>> 2015, > >> Ton > >> > > Duc > >> > > > > > >> Thang > >> > > > > > >>> in > >> > > > > > >>>> Ho Chi Minh City, recruits professors from all over > >> > > > > > >>>> the > >> world > >> > > with > >> > > > > > >>>> a promise of $2,000 per month US ? but extending their > >> > contracts > >> > > > > > >>>> depends > >> > > > > > >> on > >> > > > > > >>>> producing articles published in journals on the ISI > >> > > > > > >>>> list; > >> the > >> > > > > > >>>> nature of this list is worth taking a look at. The > >> > > > > > >>>> impact > >> of > >> > > this > >> > > > > > >>>> practice on the culture and student body is not all bad. > >> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > > >>>> My point here is to place the issue of the challenge > >> > > > > > >>>> of > >> > getting > >> > > a > >> > > > > > >>>> tenure-track job in a global context. This is not just > >> > > > > > >>>> an individual problem. > >> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > > >>>> I?m willing to go further down this line of discussion. > >> > However, > >> > > > > > >>> academics > >> > > > > > >>>> are often reluctant to reveal and compare their > >> > > > > > >>>> working > >> > > conditions > >> > > > > > >>>> on > >> > > > > > >> an > >> > > > > > >>>> ?academic? discussion list. Maybe by putting up the > >> > > > > > >>>> issue > >> of > >> > > what > >> > > > > > >>> academic > >> > > > > > >>>> freedom requires, and how these requirements fare in > >> > > > > > >>>> the > >> > global > >> > > > > > >>>> market > >> > > > > > >>> for > >> > > > > > >>>> higher education, we can shed the embarassment of > >> > > > > > >>>> revealing information about our own experiences with > >> > > > > > >>>> getting the > >> brass > >> > > ring > >> > > > > > >>>> of a full-time, secure job. > >> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > > >>>> Let?s see if anyone picks up on this. Maybe I?m being > >> > > > > > >>>> too > >> > vague. > >> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > > >>>> Helena Worthen > >> > > > > > >>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com Berkeley, CA 94707 > >> > > > > > >>>> 510-828-2745 Blog US/ Viet Nam: > >> > > > > > >>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com > >> > > > > > >>>> skype: helena.worthen1 > >> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>> On Feb 19, 2018, at 9:19 AM, Huw Lloyd > >> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>> wrote: > >> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>> The article describes accumulating large amounts of > >> knowledge > >> > > > > > >>> pertaining > >> > > > > > >>>> to > >> > > > > > >>>>> history, which (the author maintains) cannot be > >> > > > > > >>>>> turned to > >> > other > >> > > > > > >>>> endeavours. > >> > > > > > >>>>> This, no doubt, is true for her. If, however, her > >> approach to > >> > > > > > >> studying > >> > > > > > >>>>> history had been systemic, then there would have been > >> > > > > > >>>>> a > >> > > powerful > >> > > > > > >>>>> form > >> > > > > > >>> of > >> > > > > > >>>>> re-application and continuity in any work that was > >> > > > > > >>>>> turned > >> to. > >> > > > > > >>>>> Perhaps > >> > > > > > >>> the > >> > > > > > >>>>> same can be said for "phd/postdoc training". If it > >> > > > > > >>>>> cannot > >> be > >> > > > > > >>>>> reused > >> > > > > > >> or > >> > > > > > >>>>> isn't enabling, what, substantively, is it? > >> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>> Best, > >> > > > > > >>>>> Huw > >> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>> On 18 February 2018 at 18:32, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > >> > > > > > >> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > >> > > > > > >>>>> wrote: > >> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> Really inspiring words and work, Francine. I do see > >> > community > >> > > > > > >> colleges > >> > > > > > >>>> and > >> > > > > > >>>>>> many other educational settings apart from > >> > > > > > >>>>>> universities > >> as > >> > > > > > >>>>>> really > >> > > > > > >>>> valuable > >> > > > > > >>>>>> and exciting opportunities; the PhD and following > >> > > > > > >>>>>> postdoc > >> > etc > >> > > > > > >> training > >> > > > > > >>>> in > >> > > > > > >>>>>> universities, however, tend to be very much targeted > >> > towards a > >> > > > > > >>>>>> very > >> > > > > > >>>> narrow > >> > > > > > >>>>>> spectrum of positions, or at least that's been my > >> > experience. > >> > > I > >> > > > > > >>>>>> am > >> > > > > > >>> very > >> > > > > > >>>>>> happy that this thread may widen that scope and make > >> visible > >> > > > > > >>>>>> other > >> > > > > > >>>> paths. > >> > > > > > >>>>>> And as Mike suggested, it would be very interesting > >> > > > > > >>>>>> to > >> hear > >> > > > > > >>>>>> from > >> > > > > > >>> several > >> > > > > > >>>>>> others who have followed distinct trajectories apart > >> > > > > > >>>>>> from > >> > the > >> > > > > > >>>>>> phd-postdoc-assist/assoc. prof-prof, and yet made a > >> career > >> > in > >> > > > > > >>>>>> touch > >> > > > > > >>> with > >> > > > > > >>>>>> most of what was developed in the junior (phd and > >> > > > > > >>>>>> few > >> later) > >> > > > > years. > >> > > > > > >>>>>> Thanks! > >> > > > > > >>>>>> Alfredo > >> > > > > > >>>>>> ________________________________________ > >> > > > > > >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >> > > > > >> > > > > > >>> edu> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> on behalf of Larry Smolucha > >> > > > > > >>>>>> Sent: 18 February 2018 06:20 > >> > > > > > >>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >> > > > > > >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> Message from Francine Smolucha on a scholar's life > >> > > > > > >>>>>> with > >> or > >> > > > > > >>>>>> without > >> > > > > > >>>> academia > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> Alfredo, > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> There are other jobs that pay well (sometimes with > >> > > > > > >>>>>> tenure > >> > and > >> > > > > > >>>>>> early retirement benefits) - besides professorships > >> > > > > > >>>>>> at > >> four > >> > > > > > >>>>>> year colleges > >> > > > > > >>> and > >> > > > > > >>>>>> universities. Administrative and support staff > >> > > > > > >>>>>> positions > >> > pay > >> > > > > well. > >> > > > > > >>> And > >> > > > > > >>>>>> don't overlook community colleges, technical > >> > > > > > >>>>>> colleges, > >> and > >> > > > > > >>>>>> public > >> > > > > > >>> grade > >> > > > > > >>>>>> schools and high schools. There is also the private > >> sector > >> > and > >> > > > > > >>>> government > >> > > > > > >>>>>> jobs. > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> As a 'low status' community college professor, I > >> > > > > > >>>>>> managed > >> to > >> > > > > > >> translate > >> > > > > > >>>>>> Vygotsky's > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> overlooked writings on creativity (back in the > >> > > > > > >>>>>> 1980's) > >> and > >> > > > > > >> introduced > >> > > > > > >>>> his > >> > > > > > >>>>>> theory of creativity to academia. I got early > >> retirement at > >> > > > > > >>>>>> age 53 > >> > > > > > >>> and > >> > > > > > >>>>>> continue to write and publish. While my Ph.D from > >> > > > > > >>>>>> the University of > >> > > > > > >>>> Chicago > >> > > > > > >>>>>> gave me academic bona fides, it was the quality of > >> > > > > > >>>>>> the scholarly > >> > > > > > >> work > >> > > > > > >>>> that > >> > > > > > >>>>>> ultimately mattered. > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> I was always inspired by the harsh circumstances of > >> > Vygotsky's > >> > > > > > >>>>>> life > >> > > > > > >>> and > >> > > > > > >>>>>> how he still kept on writing. > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> [When I felt really sorry for myself, I would > >> > > > > > >>>>>> actually > >> say > >> > > > > > >>>>>> "Well at > >> > > > > > >>>> least > >> > > > > > >>>>>> I am not coughing up blood"] > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> So many of his works were not published in his > >> > > > > > >>>>>> lifetime, > >> he > >> > > did > >> > > > > not > >> > > > > > >>>>>> collect a royalties check, and they say he was > >> depressed > >> > at > >> > > > the > >> > > > > > >> end > >> > > > > > >>>> of > >> > > > > > >>>>>> his life. > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> I leave you with this quote from an ancient Sufi > >> > > > > > >>>>>> mystic - > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> You can't always get what you want but you can get > >> > > > > > >>>>>> what > >> you > >> > > > > > >>>>>> need > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> . > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> ________________________________ > >> > > > > > >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >> > > > > >> > > > > > >>> edu> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> on behalf of mike cole > >> > > > > > >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:07 PM > >> > > > > > >>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >> > > > > > >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> Yours is a quandary shared by your generation, Alfredo. > >> > > > > > >>>>>> Being allowed to teach and conduct research in a > >> > > > > > >>>>>> quality institution > >> > > > > > >>> is > >> > > > > > >>>> a > >> > > > > > >>>>>> great privilege and an increasingly rarer > >> > > > > > >>>>>> possibility. > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> There are several people on this list who have > >> > > > > > >>>>>> organized > >> > their > >> > > > > > >>>>>> lives > >> > > > > > >>> to > >> > > > > > >>>> be > >> > > > > > >>>>>> independent scholars while staying connected to the > >> > > > > > >>>>>> core institutions of disciplinary > >> > > > > > >>>> training. > >> > > > > > >>>>>> It might be nice to hear the variety out there. > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> It appears pretty certain that the situation is > >> > > > > > >>>>>> going to > >> get > >> > > > > > >>>>>> worse before/if it gets better. > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> What can the collective experience of xmca come up > >> > > > > > >>>>>> with > >> that > >> > > > > > >>>>>> would > >> > > > > > >> be > >> > > > > > >>>>>> useful to the many > >> > > > > > >>>>>> of you caught in this meat grinder? > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> mike > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > >> > > > > > >>>>>> < > >> > > > > > >>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> wrote: > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>>> Good luck then, Wagner! > >> > > > > > >>>>>>> A > >> > > > > > >>>>>>> ________________________________________ > >> > > > > > >>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >>> edu > >> > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>>> on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit < > >> wagner.schmit@gmail.com> > >> > > > > > >>>>>>> Sent: 18 February 2018 01:07 > >> > > > > > >>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity > >> > > > > > >>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > >> > > > > > >>>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>>> This just hit me in the spot... > >> > > > > > >>>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>>> Wagner > >> > > > > > >>>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2018 9:48 PM, "Alfredo Jornet Gil" > >> > > > > > >>>>>>> >> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> wrote: > >> > > > > > >>>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> I have not been able to contribute to this list as > >> much as > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> I'd > >> > > > > > >> like > >> > > > > > >>> to > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> lately, among other things, because I need to find > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> a > >> job, > >> > > and > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> I > >> > > > > > >> need > >> > > > > > >>>> to > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> make sure that I have checked all those boxes that > >> > selection > >> > > > > > >>>> committees > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> will check (enough first-authored publications? in > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> good enough > >> > > > > > >>>>>> journals? > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> acquiring > >> > > > > > >>> funds? > >> > > > > > >>>>>>> more > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> than all others candidates? and more than > >> > > > > > >>> favoured-for-whatever-other- > >> > > > > > >>>>>>> reasons > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these > >> weeks > >> > to > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> fill > >> > > > > > >> up > >> > > > > > >>> a > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> And, although I did not think that it was > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> particularly > >> > well > >> > > > > > >> written, > >> > > > > > >>>> it > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> was both relieving and discouraging to read this > >> article > >> > > (see > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> link > >> > > > > > >>>>>> below, > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> who > >> I > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> think > >> > > > > > >> also > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> subscribes this list). The article makes visible > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> the > >> pain > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> scholars > >> > > > > > >>> go > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> through when, after so many years of digging and > >> digging > >> > and > >> > > > > > >>> digging a > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> leave it > >> > and > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> find > >> > > > > > >>> some > >> > > > > > >>>>>>> other > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> who > >> was > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> moving > >> > > > > > >>>>>> through > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> the world with his lovely family, short-term > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> project > >> after > >> > > > > > >>> short-term > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> project, getting better and better at what he > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> worked on > >> > > > > > >> (apparently > >> > > > > > >>> he > >> > > > > > >>>>>>> was > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> among the few who had expertise in computer > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> modeling simulating > >> > > > > > >> some > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> astronomic events) , and finally having to step > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> out > >> > academia > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> last > >> > > > > > >>> year > >> > > > > > >>>>>> to > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> find something else to do, for his family no > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> longer > >> could > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> stand > >> > > > > > >> the > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> me > >> soon. > >> > > And > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> that > >> > > > > > >>> may > >> > > > > > >>>>>>> not > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the > >> story > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> seems to > >> > > > > > >> be > >> > > > > > >>>>>>> quite > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> endemic to academia and may be interesting to some > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> of > >> you: > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Lo > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> ses- > >> > > When/24 > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> 2560 > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> Alfredo > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> -- > >> > > > > > >> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > >> > > > > > >> Assistant Professor > >> > > > > > >> Department of Anthropology > >> > > > > > >> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University > >> > > > > > >> Provo, UT 84602 > >> > > > > > >> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu > >> > > > > > >> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > >> > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > -- > >> > > > > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > >> > > > > Assistant Professor > >> > > > > Department of Anthropology > >> > > > > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > >> > > > > Brigham Young University > >> > > > > Provo, UT 84602 > >> > > > > WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu > >> > > > > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > >> > Assistant Professor > >> > Department of Anthropology > >> > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > >> > Brigham Young University > >> > Provo, UT 84602 > >> > WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu > >> > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > > Assistant Professor > > Department of Anthropology > > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > > Brigham Young University > > Provo, UT 84602 > > WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu > > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > > > > > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > > -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Wed Feb 28 23:02:04 2018 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2018 07:02:04 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In-Reply-To: <1519887325986.67284@iped.uio.no> References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> <1518914964416.39650@iped.uio.no> <1518978734957.93647@iped.uio.no> <87FCF1E0-1B28-4F92-A85C-9E5A10424B74@gmail.com> <1519110745104.46827@iped.uio.no> <1519598399026.36406@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AD5C72@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AEE329@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu>, , <1519887325986.67284@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: I can testify of the fact that M. Roth is among those who runs without racing, and goes biking in the morning, gardening in the afternoon... Sent from my iPhone > On 1 Mar 2018, at 07:57, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > > Absolutely Greg; fishing in the morning and criticising after dinner sounds really good to me! Marx's formulation seems totally relevant here, and his sounds like an ecological perspective too, but with subject, with content (where other formulations sound to me very useful, yet somehow content-less, abstract, I guess). But, where does a communist society begin? Or perhaps the question is, when does it begin? And what can current caught-up critical critics do to go fishing in the morning, apart from running races to secure steadily raising salaries in current society? Those well read Marxists could come handy here and give us a hand and help us getting started! > Alfredo > ________________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Greg Thompson > Sent: 01 March 2018 05:47 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > Michael G, > Yes, I think you've really hit the nail on the head in pointing to the > ecology within which academia sits. Apologies for being a gadfly here and > simply pointing to a problem without pointing to a solution. > > How about we turn back to Marx?: > > "For as soon as the distribution of labour comes into being, each man has a > particular, exclusive sphere of activity, which is forced upon him and from > which he cannot escape. He is a hunter, a fisherman, a herdsman, or a > critical critic, and must remain so if he does not want to lose his means > of livelihood; while in communist society, where nobody has one exclusive > sphere of activity but each can become accomplished in any branch he > wishes, society regulates the general production and thus makes it possible > for me to do one thing today and another tomorrow, to hunt in the morning, > fish in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening, criticise after dinner, > just as I have a mind, without ever becoming hunter, fisherman, herdsman or > critic. This fixation of social activity, this consolidation of what we > ourselves produce into an objective power above us, growing out of our > control, thwarting our expectations, bringing to naught our calculations, > is one of the chief factors in historical development up till now." > > In Marx's view, we can all be academics (i.e., "critical critics"). > What do you think? > -greg > > > On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 8:26 PM, Glassman, Michael > wrote: > >> Hi Greg, >> >> Here is my question. If we go to slow academics how do we determine on the >> distribution of resources? If we give people a lot of time to conduct >> their work who gets that time? >> >> I think the scarcity of academic resources is very much a corporate >> phenomenon. There really should be enough resources for everybody to pursue >> academics as they wish. >> >> The peer review system and the publish or perish ethos is deeply flawed >> and causes a lot of research that shouldn't be done, let alone published. >> But if not at least a semblance of a level playing field you get with blind >> review then how do you decide who deserves the resources. Is it based on >> connections, networks, who you know, where you went to school? Does >> cultural capital become that much more important? Is this less democratic >> or more democratic? >> >> To tell you the truth I don't know. The flaw is in the scarcity though, >> not the system it seems to me. That we have allowed for a large academic >> diaspora to emerge that is forced to teach for little money and no >> benefits. Something we all allowed to happen. >> >> Michael >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Greg Thompson >> Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2018 9:10 PM >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >> >> (oh, and I didn't mean to be exclusive in pointing to Michael's work, >> there are many others on the list who would fit this description!) >> >> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 7:08 PM, Greg Thompson >> wrote: >> >>> Yes, Michael, totally agreed. And I see you as a rare exception to the >>> production mill. Whereas you manage to prolifically produce important >>> writings, much of what is published is, to my mind, written too >>> hurriedly and lacks the quality and importance of publications like >> yours. >>> -greg >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 5:33 PM, Wolff-Michael Roth < >>> wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Greg, not all people will think being publishing machines. Some, like >>>> myself, enjoy spending many hours a day writing, analyzing etc. and >>>> turning all of this into peer-reviewed articles. >>>> >>>> I referred to my earliest experience before, when I was told I would >>>> not make tenure; and I felt I would not be able to make the 2 >>>> articles or so per year in high quality journals. >>>> >>>> But after an absence from academia, it changed. I started doing >>>> research for myself initially, and then wrote it up. From then on, it >>>> was different, writing was something I wanted to do, and the more I >>>> did, the better I got at it. (Not that the peer-review process would >>>> have gotten easier.) >>>> >>>> I do admit, though, that the system as set up right now then tends to >>>> reward people who publish more than others, and in "better" journals. >>>> >>>> And it depends on context. In the department that I am affiliated >>>> with, there are people promoted and tenured without at least a >>>> handful of articles in commonly recognized journals. And if you are >>>> happy with an average increase in your salary, you don't have to get >>>> stressed in our place either. >>>> >>>> Michael >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 4:04 PM, Greg Thompson >>>> >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I once toyed with the idea of "slow scholarship" and I remain >>>>> entirely convinced that this is a virtue. But once I was entered >>>>> into the competition/race of academia, it was all about how fast >>>>> you can get to >>>> the >>>>> finish line (aka "publications"). >>>>> >>>>> Perhaps there is something good about this (assuming that it is >>>>> better >>>> to >>>>> publish something than to not publish anything), but it also has >>>>> the nefarious effect of turning scholars into cogs in publishing >> factories. >>>>> >>>>> And, continuing in this cynical spirit, I might add that the >>>>> Science article about "Slow" actually seems to be making the same >>>>> case for >>>> speed - >>>>> maybe it isn't a sprint, but it is still a race and first one to >>>>> the >>>> finish >>>>> line wins, so you better pick up the pace! Fast! >>>>> >>>>> And re: the man whispering in his ear as he runs: >>>>> "We see how in this way the mode of production and the means of >>>> production >>>>> are continually transformed, revolutionised, *how the division of >>>> labour is >>>>> necessarily followed by greater divisions of labour, the >>>>> application of machinery by still greater application of machinery, >>>>> work on a large >>>> scale >>>>> by work on a still larger scale.* >>>>> >>>>> "That is the law which again and again throws bourgeois production >>>>> out >>>> of >>>>> its old course and which compels capital to intensify the >>>>> productive >>>> forces >>>>> of labour, *because *it has intensified them, it, the law which >>>>> gives capital no rest and continually whispers in its ear: 'Go on! Go >> on!'" >>>>> (Marx - Wage Labour and Capital). >>>>> >>>>> -greg? >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 3:11 PM, Wolff-Michael Roth < >>>>> wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> this article "In praise of slow" appears to be fitting the >> discussion. >>>>> The >>>>>> author uses a nice analogy with running. Michael >>>>>> http://science.sciencemag.org/content/359/6375/602 >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 8:40 AM, Huw Lloyd >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> "Assessing their abilities and accomplishments in this regard >>>>>>> was a >>>>>> matter >>>>>>> of judgment and so could not be quantified; it could be >>>>>>> exercised >>>> only >>>>> by >>>>>>> those capable of it." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I would say, "cannot be quantified simply". >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>> Huw >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 26 February 2018 at 15:05, Greg Thompson < >>>> greg.a.thompson@gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And here is a nice article that speaks to the bureaucratic >>>>>>>> logic >>>>> that I >>>>>>> was >>>>>>>> mentioning (the author refers to "the all-administrative >>>>> institution"): >>>>>>>> https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/whose-university-is-it- >>>> anyway/#! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> A quote from it: >>>>>>>> "The revolution is over and the administrators have won. But >>>>>>>> the persistence of traditional structures and language has >>>>>>>> led some to >>>>>> think >>>>>>>> that the fight over the institution is now just beginning. >>>>>>>> This >>>> is a >>>>>>>> mistake. As with most revolutions, open conflict occurs only >>>>>>>> after >>>>> real >>>>>>>> power has already changed hands." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -greg >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 6:27 PM, Martin Packer < >>>> mpacker@cantab.net> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On STEM and social science: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> <>>>>>>>> doctors-revolt-bernard-lown.html?action=click&pgtype= >>>>>>>>> Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col- >>>>>>>>> left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav= >>>>>>>>> opinion-c-col-left-region >>>>>>>> 02/24/opinion/sunday/doctors-revolt-bernard-lown.html? >>>>>>>>> action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading& >>>>>>>>> module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c-col- >>>>>>>>> left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On measures of learning: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - measure-learning-outcomes.html?action=click&pgtype= >>>>>>>>> Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col- >>>>>>>>> left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav= >>>>>>>>> opinion-c-col-left-region >>>>>>>> 02/23/opinion/sunday/colleges-measure-learning-outcomes. >>>>>>>>> html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story- >>>>>>>>> heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c- >>>>>>>>> col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Martin >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Feb 25, 2018, at 8:15 PM, Glassman, Michael < >>>>>> glassman.13@osu.edu> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Huw, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Perhaps the opposite is also true though. STEM >>>>>>>>>> researchers >>>> can >>>>>>> better >>>>>>>>> understand what they are doing if they are well versed in >>>>>>>>> the >>>>> social >>>>>>>>> sciences. Understand the history and the meaning of what >>>>>>>>> they >>>> are >>>>>> doing >>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>> they do not act as androids (sorry, been watching the >>>>>>>>> Aliens >>>>> trilogy >>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> late). Perhaps we made the wrong calculation. We have lost >>>> control >>>>> of >>>>>>> our >>>>>>>>> great STEM innovations because the people using them don't >>>>> understand >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> social webs that they create. So we have people pushing >>>>>>>>> xMOOCs >>>>>>> (whatever >>>>>>>>> happened to MOOCs anyway) as saving education (and also a >>>> bundle so >>>>>>>>> everybody gets tax cuts, wheeee!), saying that they are >>>>>>>>> good >>>>> because >>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>> can reach many, the proverbial long tail, with great >>>>>>>>> education >>>>>>> (Harvard, >>>>>>>>> Stanford). Yet nobody asks the question, "Why is this a >>>>>>>>> good >>>>> thing." >>>>>>>> There >>>>>>>>> really isn't much supporting this in earlier distance >> education. >>>>>> There >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> actually more evidence of how dangerous it is >>>>>>>>> (Participatory >>>> Action >>>>>>>>> Research). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Michael >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>>>>>>>> [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >>>>>>>>> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Huw Lloyd >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2018 7:32 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I would ask, what makes you think you have an ecology (or >>>> niche)? >>>>>> It >>>>>>>>> seems that the notion of topologically derived ecologies is >>>> still >>>>>>> bandied >>>>>>>>> about since Bronfenbrenner (1977), though I do not know >>>>>>>>> whether >>>> he >>>>>>>> managed >>>>>>>>> to refine (overhaul and improve) his notions into something >>>>>> integrated >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> agent-centric. One does not provide an ecology or an >>>> environment. >>>>> The >>>>>>>>> environment is different for everyone, a simple >>>>>>>>> consideration >>>> of a >>>>>>>>> rock-face or climbing wall is sufficient to grasp this -- >>>>>>>>> the so >>>>>> called >>>>>>>>> environment (the rock face) is different to each climber, >>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>> environment >>>>>>>>> is that which is appropriate to them which includes >>>>>>>>> contexts >>>> well >>>>>>> beyond >>>>>>>>> what is established in an institution. From what I can >>>>>>>>> gauge, >>>>>>>> historically, >>>>>>>>> slack was deliberately introduced into courses to afford >>>> personal >>>>>>>> enquiry. >>>>>>>>>> There was the basic work and then there was the genuine >>>> enquiry. >>>>>> Who >>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> their right mind wants to write an exam essay on a question >>>>>>>>> they >>>>> are >>>>>>>>> expected to pre-write and repeat by memory? Why would >>>>>>>>> someone >>>> who >>>>>>> enjoys >>>>>>>>> thinking about their subject want to go through that kind >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>> impoverished >>>>>>>>> tedium? These systems are obviously geared for "delivery". >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Perhaps the biggest cultural shift can be achieved >>>>>>>>>> through >>>>>>> instituting >>>>>>>>> joint and personal enquiry. A teacher that stands before >>>>>>>>> their >>>>> class >>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> delivers their subject inevitably obscures and obstructs >>>>>>>>> the >>>>> process >>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> enquiry, although many students will have learnt from a >>>>>>>>> young >>>> age >>>>>> that >>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>> is what to expect and demand. Engagement with genuine >>>>>>>>> problems >>>>> rather >>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>> what students are expected to do is the basic orientational >>>> issue. >>>>>>>> Dispose >>>>>>>>> of grades, then anyone who isn't interested is free to go >> home. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The advance of STEM research is probably a good thing for >>>> social >>>>>>>> science. >>>>>>>>>> For productive work, social science must understand the >>>> structure >>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> STEM based work, in addition to bureaucratic processes and >>>>>>> circumstances >>>>>>>>> for creative work. Sticking one's head in the sand over >>>> STEM-like >>>>>>>> research >>>>>>>>> serves merely to perpetuate the impoverished side of social >>>>> science. >>>>>> It >>>>>>>>> reminds me of the scene in Pirsig's Zen and the Art of >>>> Motorcycle >>>>>>>>> Maintenance in which a couple lack the wherewithal to fix a >>>>> dripping >>>>>>>> faucet >>>>>>>>> that gives them grief and instead choose to ignore it. >>>>>>>>> Though it >>>>> was >>>>>> a >>>>>>>> very >>>>>>>>> long time ago, Pirsig's book may have contributed to my >>>>> understanding >>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> quality and might be thought of as an exploration of some >>>>>>>>> social >>>>>> issues >>>>>>>>> pertaining to technical enterprises. Another good text to >>>>> appreciate >>>>>>>>> quality more directly, probably outside the formal area of >>>> STEM, is >>>>>>>>> Alshuller's Innovation Algorithm. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Warm regards to you Henry, Greg, Alfredo. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>>> Huw >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 25 February 2018 at 22:39, Alfredo Jornet Gil < >>>>>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Greg, Huw, and others, I do often get worried that in >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>> formals >>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> informal meetings at our department (department of >>>> education), >>>>>>>>>>> conversations tend to focus on the "micro" developments >>>>>>>>>>> that >>>> you >>>>>>>>>>> mention (students, grades, getting a next grant, getting >>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>> paper >>>>>>>>>>> published, making sure you've got enough) most of the >>>>>>>>>>> time, >>>> and >>>>>> not >>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>> much on what society we would like to have, and how our >>>>>> institution >>>>>>>>>>> could/should contribute to that. I do not have any >>>> suggestions >>>>> on >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> type of studies that you ask about?dealing with how >>>> ecologies of >>>>>>>>>>> scholarship in academia lead to given developmental >>>>> dynamics?other >>>>>>>>>>> than the classical studies in STS, like Latour & >>>>>>>>>>> Woolgar's on laboratory life, or S. L. Star's. But when >>>>>>>>>>> I look forward at >>>>> what >>>>>>> lies >>>>>>>>>>> between me (or anyone in my institution) and a change in >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>> way >>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>> institution has impact in the life of many, what I see >>>>>>>>>>> is >>>> lots >>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> routines, habits, documents, and paperwork entangled in >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>> middle, >>>>>>>>>>> such that the idea "mediation all the way through" makes >>>>>>>>>>> all >>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> sense. And seeing things that way (from the ecological >>>>>> perspective), >>>>>>>>>>> makes the possibility of changing things to look >>>>>>>>>>> actually >>>>>> feasible, >>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>> more accurately perhaps, imagine-able. I'd like to >>>>>>>>>>> continue >>>>> being >>>>>>> part >>>>>>>>>>> of the ecology to be able to be also be part of its >>>>>>>>>>> changing >>>>> it. I >>>>>>>>>>> hope others will bring more specific literature to bear. >>>>>>>>>>> I am >>>>>>> already >>>>>>>>> downloading some of Peter Sloterdijk's to read. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Alfredo >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>>>>>>>>> on behalf of Greg >>>>>>>>>>> Thompson >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: 24 February 2018 17:45 >>>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I appreciate Huw's concern about academia and the push >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>> orient >>>>>> to >>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> broader and more systemic concern with "development". I >>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>> this is what institutions of higher education are >>>>>>>>>>> supposed to >>>>>> have, >>>>>>>>>>> right? - at the very least a concern for the development >>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>> individual >>>>>>>>>>> "students", but also, one would hope, a concern for >>>>> "development" >>>>>>> at a >>>>>>>>>>> longer timescale (e.g., how to be a better society, a >>>>>>>>>>> better >>>>>> world). >>>>>>>>>>> They certainly tout these in their promo materials. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> And yet, in practice, these institutions often fall back >>>>>>>>>>> on bureaucratic or economic logics. Bureaucratic logic >>>>>>>>>>> goes >>>>> something >>>>>>>>>>> like, "just publish (in "good" (i.e., high impact >>>>>>>>>>> factor) >>>>>> journals), >>>>>>>>>>> who cares what you publish so long as we can count it to >>>>> determine >>>>>>> its >>>>>>>>> (and your) 'value'(!)". >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> As for the economic logic, I was just talking with Rick >>>> Shweder >>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> other day about this issue and he expressed the concern >>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>> the >>>>>>> push >>>>>>>>>>> towards STEM education at the expense of all else and >>>>>>>>>>> the way >>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>> STEM buildings are slowly starting to take over his >>>>>>>>>>> campus >>>> (the >>>>>>>>>>> University of Chicago - a place that was long held to be >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>> hold >>>>>> out >>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> liberal arts education - apparently they now have an >>>> engineering >>>>>>>>>>> program). He suggested that this is tied to an early >>>>>>>>>>> 80's >>>> court >>>>>>>>>>> decision that gave universities ownership of patents >>>> developed >>>>> on >>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>> campuses. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> To my mind, this calls to mind a concern with ecologies >>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>> development >>>>>>>>>>> (across the shorter and longer timescales). What are the >>>>> ecologies >>>>>>>>>>> (social, economic, political, etc.) within which >>>>>>>>>>> development >>>> (at >>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>>>> various >>>>>>>>>>> timescales) occurs in our world today? This is really a >>>> question >>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> what is possible and/or what is likely with regard to >>>> becoming. >>>>>> What >>>>>>>>>>> are the forms of life and forms of development that are >>>>>> sustainable >>>>>>>>>>> given the larger ecologies in which that development >> happens? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> And for thinking through that problem, I've had a hard >>>>>>>>>>> time >>>>>> thinking >>>>>>>>>>> of anyone who has better thought through this problem >>>>>>>>>>> than >>>> Marx >>>>> - >>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>> the longer timescale of development, that is (Vygotsky >>>> would, of >>>>>>>>>>> course, be better at thinking through development at the >>>> shorter >>>>>>>>>>> timescale of ontogeny). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I'd love to hear others' thoughts on those who have >>>>>>>>>>> studied >>>>>>> activities >>>>>>>>>>> that can begin to shed light on these ecologies of >>>> development >>>>>>>>>>> (particularly at the longer timescale). Any >>>>> thoughts/suggestions? >>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> would imagine this work considering various kinds of >>>>> institutions >>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>> run the gamut - from venture capitalist firms to >>>>>>>>>>> non-profits >>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> governmental institutions to institutions of higher >>>> education. I >>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>>>> presume that each of these kinds of institutions would >>>>>>>>>>> have a >>>>>> local >>>>>>>>>>> ecology within which they work, but I am tempted to >>>>>>>>>>> imagine >>>> some >>>>>>> kind >>>>>>>>>>> of global meta-ecology (perhaps Marx's "global >>>>>>>>>>> capitalism"?) within which each of these local ecologies >>>>> operates. >>>>>>> I'd >>>>>>>>>>> be curious about actual research that has been done >>>> documenting >>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> nature of these ecologies - e.g., what kinds of >>>>>>>>>>> resources are available to be exploited? What kinds of >>>>>>>>>>> possibilities are >>>> there >>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> different forms of life? What institutional organisms >>>>>>>>>>> can >>>>> thrive? >>>>>>>>>>> Which are dying off? (and just to be clear, I am >>>>>>>>>>> intending a biological/evolutionary nature of the >> metaphor). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> It seems that this kind of work would be most likely to >>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>> been >>>>>>> done >>>>>>>>>>> by folks in the CHAT world, but perhaps the scale (of >>>>>>>>>>> time >>>> and >>>>>>> space) >>>>>>>>>>> is a bit beyond the scales that CHAT folks prefer to >>>> consider? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> (I should add that I've recently discovered the work of >>>>>>>>>>> Peter Sloterdijk's Bubbles trilogy and am curious if >>>>>>>>>>> anyone has any >>>>>>> thoughts >>>>>>>>>>> on the value of his approach - it seems to fit very well >>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>> Marx >>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> with CHAT/Vygotsky, my only initial concern was that he >>>> seems to >>>>>>> fly a >>>>>>>>>>> little fast and loose with pyschoanalytics at times - >>>>>>>>>>> not a >>>>>> serious >>>>>>>>>>> problem, but perhaps in a few places). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sympathetically, >>>>>>>>>>> greg >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 1:57 PM, Huw Lloyd < >>>>>>> huw.softdesigns@gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Well, I would say there is more to it than simply >>>>>> transfer-ability, >>>>>>>>>>>> which might be thought of as a good bureaucratic >>>> requirement. >>>>>>> Really >>>>>>>>>>>> what is required is genuine development -- >>>>>>>>>>>> reorganisation of >>>>>>> thought >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> learning. >>>>>>>>>>>> That is what is significant at a personal level, which >>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>> also >>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> basis >>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> insights and creative work (i.e. personal knowledge >>>>>>>>>>>> rather >>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>> second >>>>>>>>>>> hand >>>>>>>>>>>> knowledge). The researcher in the blog article does not >>>> evince >>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>> (with allusions to the nature of her training). There >>>>>>>>>>>> is the >>>>>>> history >>>>>>>>>>>> school children learn, which largely concerns the use >>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>> memory, >>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> then there >>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>> the history of conditions, relations and processes, >>>>>>>>>>>> which >>>>>> concerns >>>>>>>>>>>> protracted thought. This developmental emphasis is what >>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>> lacking >>>>>>>>>>>> in institutions which is why I have frequently pointed >>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>> out. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> This principle apples to "secure" jobs too. The jobs I >>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>> walked >>>>>>>>>>>> away from have been due to the overly narrow scope, >>>>>>>>>>>> where I >>>>> felt >>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>> was necessary to be far more ambitious to achieve >>>>>>>>>>>> modest satisfaction, an ambition which included >>>>>>>>>>>> achieving the wider >>>>>> scope >>>>>>>>>>>> within the norms established. Similar issues pertain to >>>>>>>>>>>> my peripheral engagement with academia. Twenty years >>>>>>>>>>>> ago, after completing a masters in cognitive >>>>>>>>>>> science >>>>>>>>>>>> (a good year), I decided against pursuing any further >>>>>>>>>>>> formal education >>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>> any immediacy due to my sense that what I was >>>>>>>>>>>> encountering >>>> in >>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> subject (and related subjects) was fundamentally wrong >>>>>>>>>>>> or inadequate, but I couldn't quite discern what that >>>>>>>>>>>> was. So, >>>> for >>>>>> me, >>>>>>>>>>>> I had no interest in furthering the academic course at >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>> time, >>>>>>>>>>>> because I was concerned with understanding, doing, >>>> discovering >>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> development, not being a "good researcher". I was and >>>>>>>>>>>> am uninterested in the trappings of academia, what it >>>>>>>>>>>> looks >>>> like >>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>>> the outside (with dubious ethics of promoting those in >>>> society >>>>>> who >>>>>>>>>>>> least need it) -- hence I am not too bothered about >>>>>>>>>>>> where >>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> experiences come from. After all, if you want sound >>>> knowledge >>>>>> then >>>>>>>>>>>> it should be validated in places where it counts (in >>>> action), >>>>> not >>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> an echo chamber of words. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> From my (developmental) perspective academia appears >>>>>>>>>>>>> to be chockfull of >>>>>>>>>>>> unproductive thinking. The lack of systems >>>>>>>>>>>> understanding in >>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> social sciences (which has been pointed out by key >>>>>>>>>>>> persons >>>> for >>>>>> two >>>>>>>>>>>> generations) >>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> find to be quite incredible. This, as far as I can see, >>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> panacea to the stasis and lethargy that I have seen in >>>> certain >>>>>>>>>>>> institutions, where there are people in secure jobs >>>>>>>>>>>> with no >>>>>>> interest >>>>>>>>>>>> in revitalising an institution (perhaps the same people >>>>>>>>>>>> who >>>>> rely >>>>>>>>>>>> upon their status for authority). In the UK, in the >>>>>>>>>>>> social >>>>>>> sciences, >>>>>>>>>>>> the whole social science infrastructure is built upon a >>>> notion >>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> quality that is ignorant of systems -- that is the >>>>>>>>>>>> degree to >>>>>> which >>>>>>>>>>>> unproductive thinking has >>>>>>>>>>> penetrated >>>>>>>>>>>> social science. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Yet there is much more to it still. Recently I have >>>>>>>>>>>> also >>>> come >>>>> to >>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>> surprising awareness that developmental prerogatives >>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>> rather >>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>> significant amount in common with spiritual ones. So I >>>>>>>>>>>> would >>>>>> offer >>>>>>>>>>> broader >>>>>>>>>>>> advice than Michael's of staying clear of hardship. It >>>>>>>>>>>> may >>>> be >>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>> "nadir" something surprising may be discovered. For >>>>>>>>>>>> anyone >>>>> with a >>>>>>>>>>>> passion "job security" is not a goal, at best it is a >>>>>>>>>>>> means >>>> to >>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>> ends, at worst >>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>> is an obstacle. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Over and out. :) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>>>>> Huw >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 20 February 2018 at 07:12, Alfredo Jornet Gil >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Huw, Helena, and all, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> thanks to you both for taking the discussion where I >>>>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>> hoping >>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> go >>>>>>>>>>>>> further: first, towards a reflection on the nature of >>>> training >>>>>>>>>>>>> academic scholars go through as it concerns the >>>>>>>>>>>>> classical >>>>>> problem >>>>>>>>>>>>> of learning "transfer"; and then, as it regards the >>>> question >>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>> academic freedom >>>>>>>>>>>> (which >>>>>>>>>>>>> actually may be the same question, just taken in a >>>>>>>>>>>>> language >>>>> more >>>>>>>>>>> adequate >>>>>>>>>>>>> to an ecological understanding of the problem). This >>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>> absolutely >>>>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>>>>>>> an individual problem. And, on that matter, I should >>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>> clear >>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> am a >>>>>>>>>>>>> privileged in a privileged land, where, despite all >>>>> uncertainty >>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> pains >>>>>>>>>>>>> that my family have gone and go through, I have today >>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>> good >>>>>>>>>>>>> background >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> network, and probably better prospects than the >>>>>>>>>>>>> majority of >>>>>> junior >>>>>>>>>>>> scholars >>>>>>>>>>>>> out there. Not that I have earned this privilege for >>>> nothing: >>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>> migrant >>>>>>>>>>>>> history and that of my family is all connected to an >>>>>>>>>>>>> effort >>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> quest >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> get better chances of academic opportunity in this >>>>>>>>>>>>> market >>>>> Helena >>>>>>>>>>>>> talks about. But my personal story, as that of the >>>> historian >>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>> the article shared or of my French astronomer friend, >>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>> relevant >>>>>>>>>>>>> in as far as >>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>>> help us reflect on just those questions. They really >>>>>>>>>>>>> also >>>> make >>>>>> one >>>>>>>>>>> wonder >>>>>>>>>>>>> on the sense of the term "academic freedom", for the >>>>>>>>>>>>> latter >>>>> term >>>>>>>>>>>>> cannot >>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>> about doing whatever research you want to do >>>>>>>>>>>>> independently >>>> of >>>>>> some >>>>>>>>>>> market >>>>>>>>>>>>> conditions and societal needs and economy. We may then >>>>>>>>>>>>> pose >>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> questions, >>>>>>>>>>>>> what type of "freedom" is the "freedom" current >>>>>>>>>>>>> systems (of incentives, >>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>> ISI lists) afford, and what type of system could allow >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>> another >>>>>>>>>>>> meaning >>>>>>>>>>>>> of the term "freedom"? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Not to get too abstract, I guess that those >>>>>>>>>>>>> reflections >>>> may be >>>>>>>>>>>>> best pondered along concrete cases, if people is >>>>>>>>>>>>> willing to >>>>> take >>>>>>>>>>>>> on Helena's suggestion to share particular stories of >>>>>>>>>>>>> all >>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>> goes into getting >>>>>>>>>>> into >>>>>>>>>>>>> secured academic job positions, or else, of pursuing >>>>>> (in)dependent >>>>>>>>>>>> careers >>>>>>>>>>>>> outside/at the borders of/across academia. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Alfredo >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> on behalf of Helena Worthen >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: 19 February 2018 19:19 >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> In the interests of widening the discussion: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I?ve described my work history before on this list ? >>>>> basically, >>>>>>>>>>>>> moving from teaching literature and writing (with >>>> stopovers in >>>>>>>>>>>>> landscape architecture and theater production) to >>>>>>>>>>>>> concern >>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>> the working conditions of teachers, especially >>>>>>>>>>>>> academics in >>>>>> higher >>>>>>>>>>>>> education, the >>>>>>>>>>> 75% >>>>>>>>>>>>> who are contingent/adjuncts. The concern is both for >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>> people >>>>>>>>>>> employed >>>>>>>>>>>>> this way and for the integrity of the institutions >>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>> employ >>>>>>>>>>>>> them. I eventually engaged this concern by working >>>>>>>>>>>>> with and >>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> the labor >>>>>>>>>>>> movement, >>>>>>>>>>>>> ending up first working for the garment/apparel >>>>>>>>>>>>> workers >>>> union >>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>> Philadelphia and then at the Labor Educaiton Program >>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>> the U >>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> Illinois, >>>>>>>>>>>>> from which I retired in 2010. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The new twist to this story is about the employment of >>>>> academics >>>>>>>>>>>>> on short-term contracts in Viet Nam, under conditions >>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>> seem >>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> be increasingly frequent in the ?developing? world, >>>>>>>>>>>>> where >>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> market for education is booming. University World News >>>>>> http://www >>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>> universityworldnews.com/ tracks this phenomenon and >>>> includes >>>>>>>>>>> occasinal >>>>>>>>>>>>> critical articles about the competition for rankings. >>>>>>>>>>>>> The university >>>>>>>>>>>> where >>>>>>>>>>>>> my husband and I have been teaching on and off since >>>>>>>>>>>>> 2015, >>>> Ton >>>>>> Duc >>>>>>>>>>> Thang >>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ho Chi Minh City, recruits professors from all over >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>> world >>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>> a promise of $2,000 per month US ? but extending their >>>>> contracts >>>>>>>>>>>>> depends >>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>> producing articles published in journals on the ISI >>>>>>>>>>>>> list; >>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> nature of this list is worth taking a look at. The >>>>>>>>>>>>> impact >>>> of >>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>>> practice on the culture and student body is not all bad. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> My point here is to place the issue of the challenge >>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>> getting >>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>> tenure-track job in a global context. This is not just >>>>>>>>>>>>> an individual problem. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I?m willing to go further down this line of discussion. >>>>> However, >>>>>>>>>>>> academics >>>>>>>>>>>>> are often reluctant to reveal and compare their >>>>>>>>>>>>> working >>>>>> conditions >>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>>> ?academic? discussion list. Maybe by putting up the >>>>>>>>>>>>> issue >>>> of >>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>>> academic >>>>>>>>>>>>> freedom requires, and how these requirements fare in >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>> global >>>>>>>>>>>>> market >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> higher education, we can shed the embarassment of >>>>>>>>>>>>> revealing information about our own experiences with >>>>>>>>>>>>> getting the >>>> brass >>>>>> ring >>>>>>>>>>>>> of a full-time, secure job. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Let?s see if anyone picks up on this. Maybe I?m being >>>>>>>>>>>>> too >>>>> vague. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Helena Worthen >>>>>>>>>>>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com Berkeley, CA 94707 >>>>>>>>>>>>> 510-828-2745 Blog US/ Viet Nam: >>>>>>>>>>>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> skype: helena.worthen1 >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 19, 2018, at 9:19 AM, Huw Lloyd >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The article describes accumulating large amounts of >>>> knowledge >>>>>>>>>>>> pertaining >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> history, which (the author maintains) cannot be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> turned to >>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>>> endeavours. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> This, no doubt, is true for her. If, however, her >>>> approach to >>>>>>>>>>> studying >>>>>>>>>>>>>> history had been systemic, then there would have been >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>> powerful >>>>>>>>>>>>>> form >>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> re-application and continuity in any work that was >>>>>>>>>>>>>> turned >>>> to. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> same can be said for "phd/postdoc training". If it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> cannot >>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> reused >>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>> isn't enabling, what, substantively, is it? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Huw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 18 February 2018 at 18:32, Alfredo Jornet Gil < >>>>>>>>>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Really inspiring words and work, Francine. I do see >>>>> community >>>>>>>>>>> colleges >>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many other educational settings apart from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> universities >>>> as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really >>>>>>>>>>>>> valuable >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and exciting opportunities; the PhD and following >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> postdoc >>>>> etc >>>>>>>>>>> training >>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> universities, however, tend to be very much targeted >>>>> towards a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> very >>>>>>>>>>>>> narrow >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spectrum of positions, or at least that's been my >>>>> experience. >>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>>>>>> very >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happy that this thread may widen that scope and make >>>> visible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>>> paths. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And as Mike suggested, it would be very interesting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>> hear >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>>> several >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others who have followed distinct trajectories apart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phd-postdoc-assist/assoc. prof-prof, and yet made a >>>> career >>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> touch >>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> most of what was developed in the junior (phd and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few >>>> later) >>>>>>>> years. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alfredo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> edu> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on behalf of Larry Smolucha >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: 18 February 2018 06:20 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Message from Francine Smolucha on a scholar's life >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without >>>>>>>>>>>>> academia >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alfredo, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are other jobs that pay well (sometimes with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tenure >>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> early retirement benefits) - besides professorships >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>> four >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> year colleges >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> universities. Administrative and support staff >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> positions >>>>> pay >>>>>>>> well. >>>>>>>>>>>> And >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't overlook community colleges, technical >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> colleges, >>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> public >>>>>>>>>>>> grade >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> schools and high schools. There is also the private >>>> sector >>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> government >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jobs. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As a 'low status' community college professor, I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> managed >>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> translate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Vygotsky's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> overlooked writings on creativity (back in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1980's) >>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> introduced >>>>>>>>>>>>> his >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theory of creativity to academia. I got early >>>> retirement at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> age 53 >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> continue to write and publish. While my Ph.D from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the University of >>>>>>>>>>>>> Chicago >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gave me academic bona fides, it was the quality of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the scholarly >>>>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ultimately mattered. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was always inspired by the harsh circumstances of >>>>> Vygotsky's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> life >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how he still kept on writing. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [When I felt really sorry for myself, I would >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actually >>>> say >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Well at >>>>>>>>>>>>> least >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not coughing up blood"] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So many of his works were not published in his >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lifetime, >>>> he >>>>>> did >>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> collect a royalties check, and they say he was >>>> depressed >>>>> at >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> end >>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his life. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I leave you with this quote from an ancient Sufi >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mystic - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You can't always get what you want but you can get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what >>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> edu> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on behalf of mike cole >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:07 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yours is a quandary shared by your generation, Alfredo. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Being allowed to teach and conduct research in a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quality institution >>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great privilege and an increasingly rarer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possibility. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are several people on this list who have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> organized >>>>> their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lives >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> independent scholars while staying connected to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> core institutions of disciplinary >>>>>>>>>>>>> training. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It might be nice to hear the variety out there. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It appears pretty certain that the situation is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going to >>>> get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worse before/if it gets better. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What can the collective experience of xmca come up >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> useful to the many >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of you caught in this meat grinder? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mike >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >>>>>>>>>>>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good luck then, Wagner! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit < >>>> wagner.schmit@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: 18 February 2018 01:07 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This just hit me in the spot... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wagner >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2018 9:48 PM, "Alfredo Jornet Gil" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have not been able to contribute to this list as >>>> much as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd >>>>>>>>>>> like >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lately, among other things, because I need to find >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>> job, >>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make sure that I have checked all those boxes that >>>>> selection >>>>>>>>>>>>> committees >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will check (enough first-authored publications? in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good enough >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> journals? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> acquiring >>>>>>>>>>>> funds? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than all others candidates? and more than >>>>>>>>>>>> favoured-for-whatever-other- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these >>>> weeks >>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fill >>>>>>>>>>> up >>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, although I did not think that it was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> particularly >>>>> well >>>>>>>>>>> written, >>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was both relieving and discouraging to read this >>>> article >>>>>> (see >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> link >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> below, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who >>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> subscribes this list). The article makes visible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>> pain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> scholars >>>>>>>>>>>> go >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> through when, after so many years of digging and >>>> digging >>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> digging a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leave it >>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find >>>>>>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who >>>> was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> moving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the world with his lovely family, short-term >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> project >>>> after >>>>>>>>>>>> short-term >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> project, getting better and better at what he >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worked on >>>>>>>>>>> (apparently >>>>>>>>>>>> he >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> among the few who had expertise in computer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> modeling simulating >>>>>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> astronomic events) , and finally having to step >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out >>>>> academia >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> last >>>>>>>>>>>> year >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find something else to do, for his family no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> longer >>>> could >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stand >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me >>>> soon. >>>>>> And >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>> may >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the >>>> story >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems to >>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> endemic to academia and may be interesting to some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>> you: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Lo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ses- >>>>>> When/24 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2560 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alfredo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>>>>>>>>>> Assistant Professor >>>>>>>>>>> Department of Anthropology >>>>>>>>>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University >>>>>>>>>>> Provo, UT 84602 >>>>>>>>>>> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu >>>>>>>>>>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>>>>>>> Assistant Professor >>>>>>>> Department of Anthropology >>>>>>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >>>>>>>> Brigham Young University >>>>>>>> Provo, UT 84602 >>>>>>>> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu >>>>>>>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>>>> Assistant Professor >>>>> Department of Anthropology >>>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >>>>> Brigham Young University >>>>> Provo, UT 84602 >>>>> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu >>>>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>> Assistant Professor >>> Department of Anthropology >>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >>> Brigham Young University >>> Provo, UT 84602 >>> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu >>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >> Assistant Professor >> Department of Anthropology >> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >> Brigham Young University >> Provo, UT 84602 >> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu >> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >> >> > > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > From andyb@marxists.org Wed Feb 28 23:08:02 2018 From: andyb@marxists.org (Andy Blunden) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2018 18:08:02 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In-Reply-To: <1519887325986.67284@iped.uio.no> References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> <1519598399026.36406@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AD5C72@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AEE329@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <1519887325986.67284@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: <68f7b914-1cd6-fbb6-52c5-8eddb56479c1@marxists.org> In answer to your question, Alfredo, I think the point is that "communism is not as such the goal of human development ? the form of human society," but is essentially the practice and duty of *solidarity*. To be a communist is to act on the duty of solidarity to the best of one's ability. The day when solidarity is universal, that is communism. Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm On 1/03/2018 5:55 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > Absolutely Greg; fishing in the morning and criticising after dinner sounds really good to me! Marx's formulation seems totally relevant here, and his sounds like an ecological perspective too, but with subject, with content (where other formulations sound to me very useful, yet somehow content-less, abstract, I guess). But, where does a communist society begin? Or perhaps the question is, when does it begin? And what can current caught-up critical critics do to go fishing in the morning, apart from running races to secure steadily raising salaries in current society? Those well read Marxists could come handy here and give us a hand and help us getting started! > Alfredo > ________________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Greg Thompson > Sent: 01 March 2018 05:47 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > Michael G, > Yes, I think you've really hit the nail on the head in pointing to the > ecology within which academia sits. Apologies for being a gadfly here and > simply pointing to a problem without pointing to a solution. > > How about we turn back to Marx?: > > "For as soon as the distribution of labour comes into being, each man has a > particular, exclusive sphere of activity, which is forced upon him and from > which he cannot escape. He is a hunter, a fisherman, a herdsman, or a > critical critic, and must remain so if he does not want to lose his means > of livelihood; while in communist society, where nobody has one exclusive > sphere of activity but each can become accomplished in any branch he > wishes, society regulates the general production and thus makes it possible > for me to do one thing today and another tomorrow, to hunt in the morning, > fish in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening, criticise after dinner, > just as I have a mind, without ever becoming hunter, fisherman, herdsman or > critic. This fixation of social activity, this consolidation of what we > ourselves produce into an objective power above us, growing out of our > control, thwarting our expectations, bringing to naught our calculations, > is one of the chief factors in historical development up till now." > > In Marx's view, we can all be academics (i.e., "critical critics"). > What do you think? > -greg > > > On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 8:26 PM, Glassman, Michael > wrote: > >> Hi Greg, >> >> Here is my question. If we go to slow academics how do we determine on the >> distribution of resources? If we give people a lot of time to conduct >> their work who gets that time? >> >> I think the scarcity of academic resources is very much a corporate >> phenomenon. There really should be enough resources for everybody to pursue >> academics as they wish. >> >> The peer review system and the publish or perish ethos is deeply flawed >> and causes a lot of research that shouldn't be done, let alone published. >> But if not at least a semblance of a level playing field you get with blind >> review then how do you decide who deserves the resources. Is it based on >> connections, networks, who you know, where you went to school? Does >> cultural capital become that much more important? Is this less democratic >> or more democratic? >> >> To tell you the truth I don't know. The flaw is in the scarcity though, >> not the system it seems to me. That we have allowed for a large academic >> diaspora to emerge that is forced to teach for little money and no >> benefits. Something we all allowed to happen. >> >> Michael >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Greg Thompson >> Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2018 9:10 PM >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >> >> (oh, and I didn't mean to be exclusive in pointing to Michael's work, >> there are many others on the list who would fit this description!) >> >> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 7:08 PM, Greg Thompson >> wrote: >> >>> Yes, Michael, totally agreed. And I see you as a rare exception to the >>> production mill. Whereas you manage to prolifically produce important >>> writings, much of what is published is, to my mind, written too >>> hurriedly and lacks the quality and importance of publications like >> yours. >>> -greg >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 5:33 PM, Wolff-Michael Roth < >>> wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Greg, not all people will think being publishing machines. Some, like >>>> myself, enjoy spending many hours a day writing, analyzing etc. and >>>> turning all of this into peer-reviewed articles. >>>> >>>> I referred to my earliest experience before, when I was told I would >>>> not make tenure; and I felt I would not be able to make the 2 >>>> articles or so per year in high quality journals. >>>> >>>> But after an absence from academia, it changed. I started doing >>>> research for myself initially, and then wrote it up. From then on, it >>>> was different, writing was something I wanted to do, and the more I >>>> did, the better I got at it. (Not that the peer-review process would >>>> have gotten easier.) >>>> >>>> I do admit, though, that the system as set up right now then tends to >>>> reward people who publish more than others, and in "better" journals. >>>> >>>> And it depends on context. In the department that I am affiliated >>>> with, there are people promoted and tenured without at least a >>>> handful of articles in commonly recognized journals. And if you are >>>> happy with an average increase in your salary, you don't have to get >>>> stressed in our place either. >>>> >>>> Michael >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 4:04 PM, Greg Thompson >>>> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I once toyed with the idea of "slow scholarship" and I remain >>>>> entirely convinced that this is a virtue. But once I was entered >>>>> into the competition/race of academia, it was all about how fast >>>>> you can get to >>>> the >>>>> finish line (aka "publications"). >>>>> >>>>> Perhaps there is something good about this (assuming that it is >>>>> better >>>> to >>>>> publish something than to not publish anything), but it also has >>>>> the nefarious effect of turning scholars into cogs in publishing >> factories. >>>>> And, continuing in this cynical spirit, I might add that the >>>>> Science article about "Slow" actually seems to be making the same >>>>> case for >>>> speed - >>>>> maybe it isn't a sprint, but it is still a race and first one to >>>>> the >>>> finish >>>>> line wins, so you better pick up the pace! Fast! >>>>> >>>>> And re: the man whispering in his ear as he runs: >>>>> "We see how in this way the mode of production and the means of >>>> production >>>>> are continually transformed, revolutionised, *how the division of >>>> labour is >>>>> necessarily followed by greater divisions of labour, the >>>>> application of machinery by still greater application of machinery, >>>>> work on a large >>>> scale >>>>> by work on a still larger scale.* >>>>> >>>>> "That is the law which again and again throws bourgeois production >>>>> out >>>> of >>>>> its old course and which compels capital to intensify the >>>>> productive >>>> forces >>>>> of labour, *because *it has intensified them, it, the law which >>>>> gives capital no rest and continually whispers in its ear: 'Go on! Go >> on!'" >>>>> (Marx - Wage Labour and Capital). >>>>> >>>>> -greg? >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 3:11 PM, Wolff-Michael Roth < >>>>> wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> this article "In praise of slow" appears to be fitting the >> discussion. >>>>> The >>>>>> author uses a nice analogy with running. Michael >>>>>> http://science.sciencemag.org/content/359/6375/602 >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 8:40 AM, Huw Lloyd >>>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> "Assessing their abilities and accomplishments in this regard >>>>>>> was a >>>>>> matter >>>>>>> of judgment and so could not be quantified; it could be >>>>>>> exercised >>>> only >>>>> by >>>>>>> those capable of it." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I would say, "cannot be quantified simply". >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>> Huw >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 26 February 2018 at 15:05, Greg Thompson < >>>> greg.a.thompson@gmail.com >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And here is a nice article that speaks to the bureaucratic >>>>>>>> logic >>>>> that I >>>>>>> was >>>>>>>> mentioning (the author refers to "the all-administrative >>>>> institution"): >>>>>>>> https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/whose-university-is-it- >>>> anyway/#! >>>>>>>> A quote from it: >>>>>>>> "The revolution is over and the administrators have won. But >>>>>>>> the persistence of traditional structures and language has >>>>>>>> led some to >>>>>> think >>>>>>>> that the fight over the institution is now just beginning. >>>>>>>> This >>>> is a >>>>>>>> mistake. As with most revolutions, open conflict occurs only >>>>>>>> after >>>>> real >>>>>>>> power has already changed hands." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -greg >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 6:27 PM, Martin Packer < >>>> mpacker@cantab.net> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> On STEM and social science: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> <>>>>>>>> doctors-revolt-bernard-lown.html?action=click&pgtype= >>>>>>>>> Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col- >>>>>>>>> left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav= >>>>>>>>> opinion-c-col-left-region >>>>>>>> 02/24/opinion/sunday/doctors-revolt-bernard-lown.html? >>>>>>>>> action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading& >>>>>>>>> module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c-col- >>>>>>>>> left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On measures of learning: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - measure-learning-outcomes.html?action=click&pgtype= >>>>>>>>> Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col- >>>>>>>>> left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav= >>>>>>>>> opinion-c-col-left-region >>>>>>>> 02/23/opinion/sunday/colleges-measure-learning-outcomes. >>>>>>>>> html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story- >>>>>>>>> heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c- >>>>>>>>> col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Martin >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Feb 25, 2018, at 8:15 PM, Glassman, Michael < >>>>>> glassman.13@osu.edu> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Hi Huw, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Perhaps the opposite is also true though. STEM >>>>>>>>>> researchers >>>> can >>>>>>> better >>>>>>>>> understand what they are doing if they are well versed in >>>>>>>>> the >>>>> social >>>>>>>>> sciences. Understand the history and the meaning of what >>>>>>>>> they >>>> are >>>>>> doing >>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>> they do not act as androids (sorry, been watching the >>>>>>>>> Aliens >>>>> trilogy >>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> late). Perhaps we made the wrong calculation. We have lost >>>> control >>>>> of >>>>>>> our >>>>>>>>> great STEM innovations because the people using them don't >>>>> understand >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> social webs that they create. So we have people pushing >>>>>>>>> xMOOCs >>>>>>> (whatever >>>>>>>>> happened to MOOCs anyway) as saving education (and also a >>>> bundle so >>>>>>>>> everybody gets tax cuts, wheeee!), saying that they are >>>>>>>>> good >>>>> because >>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>> can reach many, the proverbial long tail, with great >>>>>>>>> education >>>>>>> (Harvard, >>>>>>>>> Stanford). Yet nobody asks the question, "Why is this a >>>>>>>>> good >>>>> thing." >>>>>>>> There >>>>>>>>> really isn't much supporting this in earlier distance >> education. >>>>>> There >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> actually more evidence of how dangerous it is >>>>>>>>> (Participatory >>>> Action >>>>>>>>> Research). >>>>>>>>>> Michael >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>>>>>>>> [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >>>>>>>>> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Huw Lloyd >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2018 7:32 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I would ask, what makes you think you have an ecology (or >>>> niche)? >>>>>> It >>>>>>>>> seems that the notion of topologically derived ecologies is >>>> still >>>>>>> bandied >>>>>>>>> about since Bronfenbrenner (1977), though I do not know >>>>>>>>> whether >>>> he >>>>>>>> managed >>>>>>>>> to refine (overhaul and improve) his notions into something >>>>>> integrated >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> agent-centric. One does not provide an ecology or an >>>> environment. >>>>> The >>>>>>>>> environment is different for everyone, a simple >>>>>>>>> consideration >>>> of a >>>>>>>>> rock-face or climbing wall is sufficient to grasp this -- >>>>>>>>> the so >>>>>> called >>>>>>>>> environment (the rock face) is different to each climber, >>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>> environment >>>>>>>>> is that which is appropriate to them which includes >>>>>>>>> contexts >>>> well >>>>>>> beyond >>>>>>>>> what is established in an institution. From what I can >>>>>>>>> gauge, >>>>>>>> historically, >>>>>>>>> slack was deliberately introduced into courses to afford >>>> personal >>>>>>>> enquiry. >>>>>>>>>> There was the basic work and then there was the genuine >>>> enquiry. >>>>>> Who >>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> their right mind wants to write an exam essay on a question >>>>>>>>> they >>>>> are >>>>>>>>> expected to pre-write and repeat by memory? Why would >>>>>>>>> someone >>>> who >>>>>>> enjoys >>>>>>>>> thinking about their subject want to go through that kind >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>> impoverished >>>>>>>>> tedium? These systems are obviously geared for "delivery". >>>>>>>>>> Perhaps the biggest cultural shift can be achieved >>>>>>>>>> through >>>>>>> instituting >>>>>>>>> joint and personal enquiry. A teacher that stands before >>>>>>>>> their >>>>> class >>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> delivers their subject inevitably obscures and obstructs >>>>>>>>> the >>>>> process >>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> enquiry, although many students will have learnt from a >>>>>>>>> young >>>> age >>>>>> that >>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>> is what to expect and demand. Engagement with genuine >>>>>>>>> problems >>>>> rather >>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>> what students are expected to do is the basic orientational >>>> issue. >>>>>>>> Dispose >>>>>>>>> of grades, then anyone who isn't interested is free to go >> home. >>>>>>>>>> The advance of STEM research is probably a good thing for >>>> social >>>>>>>> science. >>>>>>>>>> For productive work, social science must understand the >>>> structure >>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> STEM based work, in addition to bureaucratic processes and >>>>>>> circumstances >>>>>>>>> for creative work. Sticking one's head in the sand over >>>> STEM-like >>>>>>>> research >>>>>>>>> serves merely to perpetuate the impoverished side of social >>>>> science. >>>>>> It >>>>>>>>> reminds me of the scene in Pirsig's Zen and the Art of >>>> Motorcycle >>>>>>>>> Maintenance in which a couple lack the wherewithal to fix a >>>>> dripping >>>>>>>> faucet >>>>>>>>> that gives them grief and instead choose to ignore it. >>>>>>>>> Though it >>>>> was >>>>>> a >>>>>>>> very >>>>>>>>> long time ago, Pirsig's book may have contributed to my >>>>> understanding >>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> quality and might be thought of as an exploration of some >>>>>>>>> social >>>>>> issues >>>>>>>>> pertaining to technical enterprises. Another good text to >>>>> appreciate >>>>>>>>> quality more directly, probably outside the formal area of >>>> STEM, is >>>>>>>>> Alshuller's Innovation Algorithm. >>>>>>>>>> Warm regards to you Henry, Greg, Alfredo. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>>> Huw >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 25 February 2018 at 22:39, Alfredo Jornet Gil < >>>>>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Greg, Huw, and others, I do often get worried that in >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>> formals >>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> informal meetings at our department (department of >>>> education), >>>>>>>>>>> conversations tend to focus on the "micro" developments >>>>>>>>>>> that >>>> you >>>>>>>>>>> mention (students, grades, getting a next grant, getting >>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>> paper >>>>>>>>>>> published, making sure you've got enough) most of the >>>>>>>>>>> time, >>>> and >>>>>> not >>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>> much on what society we would like to have, and how our >>>>>> institution >>>>>>>>>>> could/should contribute to that. I do not have any >>>> suggestions >>>>> on >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> type of studies that you ask about?dealing with how >>>> ecologies of >>>>>>>>>>> scholarship in academia lead to given developmental >>>>> dynamics?other >>>>>>>>>>> than the classical studies in STS, like Latour & >>>>>>>>>>> Woolgar's on laboratory life, or S. L. Star's. But when >>>>>>>>>>> I look forward at >>>>> what >>>>>>> lies >>>>>>>>>>> between me (or anyone in my institution) and a change in >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>> way >>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>> institution has impact in the life of many, what I see >>>>>>>>>>> is >>>> lots >>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> routines, habits, documents, and paperwork entangled in >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>> middle, >>>>>>>>>>> such that the idea "mediation all the way through" makes >>>>>>>>>>> all >>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> sense. And seeing things that way (from the ecological >>>>>> perspective), >>>>>>>>>>> makes the possibility of changing things to look >>>>>>>>>>> actually >>>>>> feasible, >>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>> more accurately perhaps, imagine-able. I'd like to >>>>>>>>>>> continue >>>>> being >>>>>>> part >>>>>>>>>>> of the ecology to be able to be also be part of its >>>>>>>>>>> changing >>>>> it. I >>>>>>>>>>> hope others will bring more specific literature to bear. >>>>>>>>>>> I am >>>>>>> already >>>>>>>>> downloading some of Peter Sloterdijk's to read. >>>>>>>>>>> Alfredo >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>>>>>>>>> on behalf of Greg >>>>>>>>>>> Thompson >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: 24 February 2018 17:45 >>>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I appreciate Huw's concern about academia and the push >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>> orient >>>>>> to >>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> broader and more systemic concern with "development". I >>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>> this is what institutions of higher education are >>>>>>>>>>> supposed to >>>>>> have, >>>>>>>>>>> right? - at the very least a concern for the development >>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>> individual >>>>>>>>>>> "students", but also, one would hope, a concern for >>>>> "development" >>>>>>> at a >>>>>>>>>>> longer timescale (e.g., how to be a better society, a >>>>>>>>>>> better >>>>>> world). >>>>>>>>>>> They certainly tout these in their promo materials. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> And yet, in practice, these institutions often fall back >>>>>>>>>>> on bureaucratic or economic logics. Bureaucratic logic >>>>>>>>>>> goes >>>>> something >>>>>>>>>>> like, "just publish (in "good" (i.e., high impact >>>>>>>>>>> factor) >>>>>> journals), >>>>>>>>>>> who cares what you publish so long as we can count it to >>>>> determine >>>>>>> its >>>>>>>>> (and your) 'value'(!)". >>>>>>>>>>> As for the economic logic, I was just talking with Rick >>>> Shweder >>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> other day about this issue and he expressed the concern >>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>> the >>>>>>> push >>>>>>>>>>> towards STEM education at the expense of all else and >>>>>>>>>>> the way >>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>> STEM buildings are slowly starting to take over his >>>>>>>>>>> campus >>>> (the >>>>>>>>>>> University of Chicago - a place that was long held to be >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>> hold >>>>>> out >>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> liberal arts education - apparently they now have an >>>> engineering >>>>>>>>>>> program). He suggested that this is tied to an early >>>>>>>>>>> 80's >>>> court >>>>>>>>>>> decision that gave universities ownership of patents >>>> developed >>>>> on >>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>> campuses. >>>>>>>>>>> To my mind, this calls to mind a concern with ecologies >>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>> development >>>>>>>>>>> (across the shorter and longer timescales). What are the >>>>> ecologies >>>>>>>>>>> (social, economic, political, etc.) within which >>>>>>>>>>> development >>>> (at >>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>>>> various >>>>>>>>>>> timescales) occurs in our world today? This is really a >>>> question >>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> what is possible and/or what is likely with regard to >>>> becoming. >>>>>> What >>>>>>>>>>> are the forms of life and forms of development that are >>>>>> sustainable >>>>>>>>>>> given the larger ecologies in which that development >> happens? >>>>>>>>>>> And for thinking through that problem, I've had a hard >>>>>>>>>>> time >>>>>> thinking >>>>>>>>>>> of anyone who has better thought through this problem >>>>>>>>>>> than >>>> Marx >>>>> - >>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>> the longer timescale of development, that is (Vygotsky >>>> would, of >>>>>>>>>>> course, be better at thinking through development at the >>>> shorter >>>>>>>>>>> timescale of ontogeny). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I'd love to hear others' thoughts on those who have >>>>>>>>>>> studied >>>>>>> activities >>>>>>>>>>> that can begin to shed light on these ecologies of >>>> development >>>>>>>>>>> (particularly at the longer timescale). Any >>>>> thoughts/suggestions? >>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> would imagine this work considering various kinds of >>>>> institutions >>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>> run the gamut - from venture capitalist firms to >>>>>>>>>>> non-profits >>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> governmental institutions to institutions of higher >>>> education. I >>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>>>> presume that each of these kinds of institutions would >>>>>>>>>>> have a >>>>>> local >>>>>>>>>>> ecology within which they work, but I am tempted to >>>>>>>>>>> imagine >>>> some >>>>>>> kind >>>>>>>>>>> of global meta-ecology (perhaps Marx's "global >>>>>>>>>>> capitalism"?) within which each of these local ecologies >>>>> operates. >>>>>>> I'd >>>>>>>>>>> be curious about actual research that has been done >>>> documenting >>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> nature of these ecologies - e.g., what kinds of >>>>>>>>>>> resources are available to be exploited? What kinds of >>>>>>>>>>> possibilities are >>>> there >>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> different forms of life? What institutional organisms >>>>>>>>>>> can >>>>> thrive? >>>>>>>>>>> Which are dying off? (and just to be clear, I am >>>>>>>>>>> intending a biological/evolutionary nature of the >> metaphor). >>>>>>>>>>> It seems that this kind of work would be most likely to >>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>> been >>>>>>> done >>>>>>>>>>> by folks in the CHAT world, but perhaps the scale (of >>>>>>>>>>> time >>>> and >>>>>>> space) >>>>>>>>>>> is a bit beyond the scales that CHAT folks prefer to >>>> consider? >>>>>>>>>>> (I should add that I've recently discovered the work of >>>>>>>>>>> Peter Sloterdijk's Bubbles trilogy and am curious if >>>>>>>>>>> anyone has any >>>>>>> thoughts >>>>>>>>>>> on the value of his approach - it seems to fit very well >>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>> Marx >>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> with CHAT/Vygotsky, my only initial concern was that he >>>> seems to >>>>>>> fly a >>>>>>>>>>> little fast and loose with pyschoanalytics at times - >>>>>>>>>>> not a >>>>>> serious >>>>>>>>>>> problem, but perhaps in a few places). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sympathetically, >>>>>>>>>>> greg >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 1:57 PM, Huw Lloyd < >>>>>>> huw.softdesigns@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Well, I would say there is more to it than simply >>>>>> transfer-ability, >>>>>>>>>>>> which might be thought of as a good bureaucratic >>>> requirement. >>>>>>> Really >>>>>>>>>>>> what is required is genuine development -- >>>>>>>>>>>> reorganisation of >>>>>>> thought >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> learning. >>>>>>>>>>>> That is what is significant at a personal level, which >>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>> also >>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> basis >>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> insights and creative work (i.e. personal knowledge >>>>>>>>>>>> rather >>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>> second >>>>>>>>>>> hand >>>>>>>>>>>> knowledge). The researcher in the blog article does not >>>> evince >>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>> (with allusions to the nature of her training). There >>>>>>>>>>>> is the >>>>>>> history >>>>>>>>>>>> school children learn, which largely concerns the use >>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>> memory, >>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> then there >>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>> the history of conditions, relations and processes, >>>>>>>>>>>> which >>>>>> concerns >>>>>>>>>>>> protracted thought. This developmental emphasis is what >>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>> lacking >>>>>>>>>>>> in institutions which is why I have frequently pointed >>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>> out. >>>>>>>>>>>> This principle apples to "secure" jobs too. The jobs I >>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>> walked >>>>>>>>>>>> away from have been due to the overly narrow scope, >>>>>>>>>>>> where I >>>>> felt >>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>> was necessary to be far more ambitious to achieve >>>>>>>>>>>> modest satisfaction, an ambition which included >>>>>>>>>>>> achieving the wider >>>>>> scope >>>>>>>>>>>> within the norms established. Similar issues pertain to >>>>>>>>>>>> my peripheral engagement with academia. Twenty years >>>>>>>>>>>> ago, after completing a masters in cognitive >>>>>>>>>>> science >>>>>>>>>>>> (a good year), I decided against pursuing any further >>>>>>>>>>>> formal education >>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>> any immediacy due to my sense that what I was >>>>>>>>>>>> encountering >>>> in >>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> subject (and related subjects) was fundamentally wrong >>>>>>>>>>>> or inadequate, but I couldn't quite discern what that >>>>>>>>>>>> was. So, >>>> for >>>>>> me, >>>>>>>>>>>> I had no interest in furthering the academic course at >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>> time, >>>>>>>>>>>> because I was concerned with understanding, doing, >>>> discovering >>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> development, not being a "good researcher". I was and >>>>>>>>>>>> am uninterested in the trappings of academia, what it >>>>>>>>>>>> looks >>>> like >>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>>> the outside (with dubious ethics of promoting those in >>>> society >>>>>> who >>>>>>>>>>>> least need it) -- hence I am not too bothered about >>>>>>>>>>>> where >>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> experiences come from. After all, if you want sound >>>> knowledge >>>>>> then >>>>>>>>>>>> it should be validated in places where it counts (in >>>> action), >>>>> not >>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> an echo chamber of words. >>>>>>>>>>>>> From my (developmental) perspective academia appears >>>>>>>>>>>>> to be chockfull of >>>>>>>>>>>> unproductive thinking. The lack of systems >>>>>>>>>>>> understanding in >>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> social sciences (which has been pointed out by key >>>>>>>>>>>> persons >>>> for >>>>>> two >>>>>>>>>>>> generations) >>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> find to be quite incredible. This, as far as I can see, >>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> panacea to the stasis and lethargy that I have seen in >>>> certain >>>>>>>>>>>> institutions, where there are people in secure jobs >>>>>>>>>>>> with no >>>>>>> interest >>>>>>>>>>>> in revitalising an institution (perhaps the same people >>>>>>>>>>>> who >>>>> rely >>>>>>>>>>>> upon their status for authority). In the UK, in the >>>>>>>>>>>> social >>>>>>> sciences, >>>>>>>>>>>> the whole social science infrastructure is built upon a >>>> notion >>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> quality that is ignorant of systems -- that is the >>>>>>>>>>>> degree to >>>>>> which >>>>>>>>>>>> unproductive thinking has >>>>>>>>>>> penetrated >>>>>>>>>>>> social science. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Yet there is much more to it still. Recently I have >>>>>>>>>>>> also >>>> come >>>>> to >>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>> surprising awareness that developmental prerogatives >>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>> rather >>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>> significant amount in common with spiritual ones. So I >>>>>>>>>>>> would >>>>>> offer >>>>>>>>>>> broader >>>>>>>>>>>> advice than Michael's of staying clear of hardship. It >>>>>>>>>>>> may >>>> be >>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>> "nadir" something surprising may be discovered. For >>>>>>>>>>>> anyone >>>>> with a >>>>>>>>>>>> passion "job security" is not a goal, at best it is a >>>>>>>>>>>> means >>>> to >>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>> ends, at worst >>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>> is an obstacle. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Over and out. :) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>>>>> Huw >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 20 February 2018 at 07:12, Alfredo Jornet Gil >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Huw, Helena, and all, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> thanks to you both for taking the discussion where I >>>>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>> hoping >>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> go >>>>>>>>>>>>> further: first, towards a reflection on the nature of >>>> training >>>>>>>>>>>>> academic scholars go through as it concerns the >>>>>>>>>>>>> classical >>>>>> problem >>>>>>>>>>>>> of learning "transfer"; and then, as it regards the >>>> question >>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>> academic freedom >>>>>>>>>>>> (which >>>>>>>>>>>>> actually may be the same question, just taken in a >>>>>>>>>>>>> language >>>>> more >>>>>>>>>>> adequate >>>>>>>>>>>>> to an ecological understanding of the problem). This >>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>> absolutely >>>>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>>>>>>> an individual problem. And, on that matter, I should >>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>> clear >>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> am a >>>>>>>>>>>>> privileged in a privileged land, where, despite all >>>>> uncertainty >>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> pains >>>>>>>>>>>>> that my family have gone and go through, I have today >>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>> good >>>>>>>>>>>>> background >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> network, and probably better prospects than the >>>>>>>>>>>>> majority of >>>>>> junior >>>>>>>>>>>> scholars >>>>>>>>>>>>> out there. Not that I have earned this privilege for >>>> nothing: >>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>> migrant >>>>>>>>>>>>> history and that of my family is all connected to an >>>>>>>>>>>>> effort >>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> quest >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> get better chances of academic opportunity in this >>>>>>>>>>>>> market >>>>> Helena >>>>>>>>>>>>> talks about. But my personal story, as that of the >>>> historian >>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>> the article shared or of my French astronomer friend, >>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>> relevant >>>>>>>>>>>>> in as far as >>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>>> help us reflect on just those questions. They really >>>>>>>>>>>>> also >>>> make >>>>>> one >>>>>>>>>>> wonder >>>>>>>>>>>>> on the sense of the term "academic freedom", for the >>>>>>>>>>>>> latter >>>>> term >>>>>>>>>>>>> cannot >>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>> about doing whatever research you want to do >>>>>>>>>>>>> independently >>>> of >>>>>> some >>>>>>>>>>> market >>>>>>>>>>>>> conditions and societal needs and economy. We may then >>>>>>>>>>>>> pose >>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> questions, >>>>>>>>>>>>> what type of "freedom" is the "freedom" current >>>>>>>>>>>>> systems (of incentives, >>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>> ISI lists) afford, and what type of system could allow >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>> another >>>>>>>>>>>> meaning >>>>>>>>>>>>> of the term "freedom"? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Not to get too abstract, I guess that those >>>>>>>>>>>>> reflections >>>> may be >>>>>>>>>>>>> best pondered along concrete cases, if people is >>>>>>>>>>>>> willing to >>>>> take >>>>>>>>>>>>> on Helena's suggestion to share particular stories of >>>>>>>>>>>>> all >>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>> goes into getting >>>>>>>>>>> into >>>>>>>>>>>>> secured academic job positions, or else, of pursuing >>>>>> (in)dependent >>>>>>>>>>>> careers >>>>>>>>>>>>> outside/at the borders of/across academia. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Alfredo >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> on behalf of Helena Worthen >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: 19 February 2018 19:19 >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> In the interests of widening the discussion: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I?ve described my work history before on this list ? >>>>> basically, >>>>>>>>>>>>> moving from teaching literature and writing (with >>>> stopovers in >>>>>>>>>>>>> landscape architecture and theater production) to >>>>>>>>>>>>> concern >>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>> the working conditions of teachers, especially >>>>>>>>>>>>> academics in >>>>>> higher >>>>>>>>>>>>> education, the >>>>>>>>>>> 75% >>>>>>>>>>>>> who are contingent/adjuncts. The concern is both for >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>> people >>>>>>>>>>> employed >>>>>>>>>>>>> this way and for the integrity of the institutions >>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>> employ >>>>>>>>>>>>> them. I eventually engaged this concern by working >>>>>>>>>>>>> with and >>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> the labor >>>>>>>>>>>> movement, >>>>>>>>>>>>> ending up first working for the garment/apparel >>>>>>>>>>>>> workers >>>> union >>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>> Philadelphia and then at the Labor Educaiton Program >>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>> the U >>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> Illinois, >>>>>>>>>>>>> from which I retired in 2010. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The new twist to this story is about the employment of >>>>> academics >>>>>>>>>>>>> on short-term contracts in Viet Nam, under conditions >>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>> seem >>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> be increasingly frequent in the ?developing? world, >>>>>>>>>>>>> where >>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> market for education is booming. University World News >>>>>> http://www >>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>> universityworldnews.com/ tracks this phenomenon and >>>> includes >>>>>>>>>>> occasinal >>>>>>>>>>>>> critical articles about the competition for rankings. >>>>>>>>>>>>> The university >>>>>>>>>>>> where >>>>>>>>>>>>> my husband and I have been teaching on and off since >>>>>>>>>>>>> 2015, >>>> Ton >>>>>> Duc >>>>>>>>>>> Thang >>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ho Chi Minh City, recruits professors from all over >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>> world >>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>> a promise of $2,000 per month US ? but extending their >>>>> contracts >>>>>>>>>>>>> depends >>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>> producing articles published in journals on the ISI >>>>>>>>>>>>> list; >>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> nature of this list is worth taking a look at. The >>>>>>>>>>>>> impact >>>> of >>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>>> practice on the culture and student body is not all bad. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> My point here is to place the issue of the challenge >>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>> getting >>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>> tenure-track job in a global context. This is not just >>>>>>>>>>>>> an individual problem. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I?m willing to go further down this line of discussion. >>>>> However, >>>>>>>>>>>> academics >>>>>>>>>>>>> are often reluctant to reveal and compare their >>>>>>>>>>>>> working >>>>>> conditions >>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>>> ?academic? discussion list. Maybe by putting up the >>>>>>>>>>>>> issue >>>> of >>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>>> academic >>>>>>>>>>>>> freedom requires, and how these requirements fare in >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>> global >>>>>>>>>>>>> market >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> higher education, we can shed the embarassment of >>>>>>>>>>>>> revealing information about our own experiences with >>>>>>>>>>>>> getting the >>>> brass >>>>>> ring >>>>>>>>>>>>> of a full-time, secure job. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Let?s see if anyone picks up on this. Maybe I?m being >>>>>>>>>>>>> too >>>>> vague. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Helena Worthen >>>>>>>>>>>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com Berkeley, CA 94707 >>>>>>>>>>>>> 510-828-2745 Blog US/ Viet Nam: >>>>>>>>>>>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> skype: helena.worthen1 >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 19, 2018, at 9:19 AM, Huw Lloyd >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The article describes accumulating large amounts of >>>> knowledge >>>>>>>>>>>> pertaining >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> history, which (the author maintains) cannot be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> turned to >>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>>> endeavours. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> This, no doubt, is true for her. If, however, her >>>> approach to >>>>>>>>>>> studying >>>>>>>>>>>>>> history had been systemic, then there would have been >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>> powerful >>>>>>>>>>>>>> form >>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> re-application and continuity in any work that was >>>>>>>>>>>>>> turned >>>> to. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> same can be said for "phd/postdoc training". If it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> cannot >>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> reused >>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>> isn't enabling, what, substantively, is it? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Huw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 18 February 2018 at 18:32, Alfredo Jornet Gil < >>>>>>>>>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Really inspiring words and work, Francine. I do see >>>>> community >>>>>>>>>>> colleges >>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many other educational settings apart from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> universities >>>> as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really >>>>>>>>>>>>> valuable >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and exciting opportunities; the PhD and following >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> postdoc >>>>> etc >>>>>>>>>>> training >>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> universities, however, tend to be very much targeted >>>>> towards a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> very >>>>>>>>>>>>> narrow >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spectrum of positions, or at least that's been my >>>>> experience. >>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>>>>>> very >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happy that this thread may widen that scope and make >>>> visible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>>> paths. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And as Mike suggested, it would be very interesting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>> hear >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>>> several >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others who have followed distinct trajectories apart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phd-postdoc-assist/assoc. prof-prof, and yet made a >>>> career >>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> touch >>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> most of what was developed in the junior (phd and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few >>>> later) >>>>>>>> years. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alfredo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> edu> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on behalf of Larry Smolucha >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: 18 February 2018 06:20 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Message from Francine Smolucha on a scholar's life >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without >>>>>>>>>>>>> academia >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alfredo, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are other jobs that pay well (sometimes with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tenure >>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> early retirement benefits) - besides professorships >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>> four >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> year colleges >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> universities. Administrative and support staff >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> positions >>>>> pay >>>>>>>> well. >>>>>>>>>>>> And >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't overlook community colleges, technical >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> colleges, >>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> public >>>>>>>>>>>> grade >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> schools and high schools. There is also the private >>>> sector >>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> government >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jobs. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As a 'low status' community college professor, I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> managed >>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> translate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Vygotsky's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> overlooked writings on creativity (back in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1980's) >>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> introduced >>>>>>>>>>>>> his >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theory of creativity to academia. I got early >>>> retirement at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> age 53 >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> continue to write and publish. While my Ph.D from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the University of >>>>>>>>>>>>> Chicago >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gave me academic bona fides, it was the quality of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the scholarly >>>>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ultimately mattered. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was always inspired by the harsh circumstances of >>>>> Vygotsky's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> life >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how he still kept on writing. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [When I felt really sorry for myself, I would >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actually >>>> say >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Well at >>>>>>>>>>>>> least >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not coughing up blood"] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So many of his works were not published in his >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lifetime, >>>> he >>>>>> did >>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> collect a royalties check, and they say he was >>>> depressed >>>>> at >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> end >>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his life. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I leave you with this quote from an ancient Sufi >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mystic - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You can't always get what you want but you can get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what >>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> edu> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on behalf of mike cole >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:07 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yours is a quandary shared by your generation, Alfredo. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Being allowed to teach and conduct research in a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quality institution >>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great privilege and an increasingly rarer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possibility. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are several people on this list who have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> organized >>>>> their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lives >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> independent scholars while staying connected to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> core institutions of disciplinary >>>>>>>>>>>>> training. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It might be nice to hear the variety out there. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It appears pretty certain that the situation is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going to >>>> get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worse before/if it gets better. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What can the collective experience of xmca come up >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> useful to the many >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of you caught in this meat grinder? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mike >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >>>>>>>>>>>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good luck then, Wagner! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit < >>>> wagner.schmit@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: 18 February 2018 01:07 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This just hit me in the spot... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wagner >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2018 9:48 PM, "Alfredo Jornet Gil" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have not been able to contribute to this list as >>>> much as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd >>>>>>>>>>> like >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lately, among other things, because I need to find >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>> job, >>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make sure that I have checked all those boxes that >>>>> selection >>>>>>>>>>>>> committees >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will check (enough first-authored publications? in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good enough >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> journals? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> acquiring >>>>>>>>>>>> funds? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than all others candidates? and more than >>>>>>>>>>>> favoured-for-whatever-other- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these >>>> weeks >>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fill >>>>>>>>>>> up >>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, although I did not think that it was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> particularly >>>>> well >>>>>>>>>>> written, >>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was both relieving and discouraging to read this >>>> article >>>>>> (see >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> link >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> below, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who >>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> subscribes this list). The article makes visible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>> pain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> scholars >>>>>>>>>>>> go >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> through when, after so many years of digging and >>>> digging >>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> digging a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leave it >>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find >>>>>>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who >>>> was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> moving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the world with his lovely family, short-term >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> project >>>> after >>>>>>>>>>>> short-term >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> project, getting better and better at what he >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worked on >>>>>>>>>>> (apparently >>>>>>>>>>>> he >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> among the few who had expertise in computer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> modeling simulating >>>>>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> astronomic events) , and finally having to step >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out >>>>> academia >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> last >>>>>>>>>>>> year >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find something else to do, for his family no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> longer >>>> could >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stand >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me >>>> soon. >>>>>> And >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>> may >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the >>>> story >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems to >>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> endemic to academia and may be interesting to some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>> you: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Lo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ses- >>>>>> When/24 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2560 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alfredo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>>>>>>>>>> Assistant Professor >>>>>>>>>>> Department of Anthropology >>>>>>>>>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University >>>>>>>>>>> Provo, UT 84602 >>>>>>>>>>> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu >>>>>>>>>>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>>>>>>> Assistant Professor >>>>>>>> Department of Anthropology >>>>>>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >>>>>>>> Brigham Young University >>>>>>>> Provo, UT 84602 >>>>>>>> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu >>>>>>>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>>>> Assistant Professor >>>>> Department of Anthropology >>>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >>>>> Brigham Young University >>>>> Provo, UT 84602 >>>>> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu >>>>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >>>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>> Assistant Professor >>> Department of Anthropology >>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >>> Brigham Young University >>> Provo, UT 84602 >>> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu >>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >>> >> >> >> -- >> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >> Assistant Professor >> Department of Anthropology >> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >> Brigham Young University >> Provo, UT 84602 >> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu >> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >> >> > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > From yrjo.engestrom@helsinki.fi Wed Feb 28 23:14:20 2018 From: yrjo.engestrom@helsinki.fi (=?utf-8?B?RW5nZXN0csO2bSwgWXJqw7YgSCBN?=) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2018 07:14:20 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] The discovery of slowness In-Reply-To: References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> <1518914964416.39650@iped.uio.no> <1518978734957.93647@iped.uio.no> <87FCF1E0-1B28-4F92-A85C-9E5A10424B74@gmail.com> <1519110745104.46827@iped.uio.no> <1519598399026.36406@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AD5C72@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> Message-ID: <6DED4BA7-2090-4B37-AEE2-26B810854808@helsinki.fi> Check out this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Discovery_of_Slowness Cheers, Yrj? Engestr?m On 01 Mar 2018, at 03:20, mike cole > wrote: Some fare better than others in the system that Greg points us to. The phrase that all that's solid turns into air comes to mind. There is certainly something to slow science. I believe that Jean Lave initiated such a center a few years ago at Berkeley, although I am not sure of its current status. mike On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 4:33 PM, Wolff-Michael Roth < wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com> wrote: Greg, not all people will think being publishing machines. Some, like myself, enjoy spending many hours a day writing, analyzing etc. and turning all of this into peer-reviewed articles. I referred to my earliest experience before, when I was told I would not make tenure; and I felt I would not be able to make the 2 articles or so per year in high quality journals. But after an absence from academia, it changed. I started doing research for myself initially, and then wrote it up. From then on, it was different, writing was something I wanted to do, and the more I did, the better I got at it. (Not that the peer-review process would have gotten easier.) I do admit, though, that the system as set up right now then tends to reward people who publish more than others, and in "better" journals. And it depends on context. In the department that I am affiliated with, there are people promoted and tenured without at least a handful of articles in commonly recognized journals. And if you are happy with an average increase in your salary, you don't have to get stressed in our place either. Michael On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 4:04 PM, Greg Thompson > wrote: I once toyed with the idea of "slow scholarship" and I remain entirely convinced that this is a virtue. But once I was entered into the competition/race of academia, it was all about how fast you can get to the finish line (aka "publications"). Perhaps there is something good about this (assuming that it is better to publish something than to not publish anything), but it also has the nefarious effect of turning scholars into cogs in publishing factories. And, continuing in this cynical spirit, I might add that the Science article about "Slow" actually seems to be making the same case for speed - maybe it isn't a sprint, but it is still a race and first one to the finish line wins, so you better pick up the pace! Fast! And re: the man whispering in his ear as he runs: "We see how in this way the mode of production and the means of production are continually transformed, revolutionised, *how the division of labour is necessarily followed by greater divisions of labour, the application of machinery by still greater application of machinery, work on a large scale by work on a still larger scale.* "That is the law which again and again throws bourgeois production out of its old course and which compels capital to intensify the productive forces of labour, *because *it has intensified them, it, the law which gives capital no rest and continually whispers in its ear: 'Go on! Go on!'" (Marx - Wage Labour and Capital). -greg? On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 3:11 PM, Wolff-Michael Roth < wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com> wrote: Hi all, this article "In praise of slow" appears to be fitting the discussion. The author uses a nice analogy with running. Michael http://science.sciencemag.org/content/359/6375/602 On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 8:40 AM, Huw Lloyd wrote: "Assessing their abilities and accomplishments in this regard was a matter of judgment and so could not be quantified; it could be exercised only by those capable of it." I would say, "cannot be quantified simply". Best, Huw On 26 February 2018 at 15:05, Greg Thompson < greg.a.thompson@gmail.com wrote: And here is a nice article that speaks to the bureaucratic logic that I was mentioning (the author refers to "the all-administrative institution"): https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/whose-university-is- it-anyway/#! A quote from it: "The revolution is over and the administrators have won. But the persistence of traditional structures and language has led some to think that the fight over the institution is now just beginning. This is a mistake. As with most revolutions, open conflict occurs only after real power has already changed hands." -greg On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 6:27 PM, Martin Packer >> On measures of learning: > Martin On Feb 25, 2018, at 8:15 PM, Glassman, Michael < glassman.13@osu.edu> wrote: Hi Huw, Perhaps the opposite is also true though. STEM researchers can better understand what they are doing if they are well versed in the social sciences. Understand the history and the meaning of what they are doing so they do not act as androids (sorry, been watching the Aliens trilogy of late). Perhaps we made the wrong calculation. We have lost control of our great STEM innovations because the people using them don't understand the social webs that they create. So we have people pushing xMOOCs (whatever happened to MOOCs anyway) as saving education (and also a bundle so everybody gets tax cuts, wheeee!), saying that they are good because they can reach many, the proverbial long tail, with great education (Harvard, Stanford). Yet nobody asks the question, "Why is this a good thing." There really isn't much supporting this in earlier distance education. There is actually more evidence of how dangerous it is (Participatory Action Research). Michael -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Huw Lloyd Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2018 7:32 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship I would ask, what makes you think you have an ecology (or niche)? It seems that the notion of topologically derived ecologies is still bandied about since Bronfenbrenner (1977), though I do not know whether he managed to refine (overhaul and improve) his notions into something integrated and agent-centric. One does not provide an ecology or an environment. The environment is different for everyone, a simple consideration of a rock-face or climbing wall is sufficient to grasp this -- the so called environment (the rock face) is different to each climber, their environment is that which is appropriate to them which includes contexts well beyond what is established in an institution. From what I can gauge, historically, slack was deliberately introduced into courses to afford personal enquiry. There was the basic work and then there was the genuine enquiry. Who in their right mind wants to write an exam essay on a question they are expected to pre-write and repeat by memory? Why would someone who enjoys thinking about their subject want to go through that kind of impoverished tedium? These systems are obviously geared for "delivery". Perhaps the biggest cultural shift can be achieved through instituting joint and personal enquiry. A teacher that stands before their class and delivers their subject inevitably obscures and obstructs the process of enquiry, although many students will have learnt from a young age that this is what to expect and demand. Engagement with genuine problems rather than what students are expected to do is the basic orientational issue. Dispose of grades, then anyone who isn't interested is free to go home. The advance of STEM research is probably a good thing for social science. For productive work, social science must understand the structure of STEM based work, in addition to bureaucratic processes and circumstances for creative work. Sticking one's head in the sand over STEM-like research serves merely to perpetuate the impoverished side of social science. It reminds me of the scene in Pirsig's Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance in which a couple lack the wherewithal to fix a dripping faucet that gives them grief and instead choose to ignore it. Though it was a very long time ago, Pirsig's book may have contributed to my understanding of quality and might be thought of as an exploration of some social issues pertaining to technical enterprises. Another good text to appreciate quality more directly, probably outside the formal area of STEM, is Alshuller's Innovation Algorithm. Warm regards to you Henry, Greg, Alfredo. Best, Huw On 25 February 2018 at 22:39, Alfredo Jornet Gil < a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> wrote: Greg, Huw, and others, I do often get worried that in the formals and informal meetings at our department (department of education), conversations tend to focus on the "micro" developments that you mention (students, grades, getting a next grant, getting that paper published, making sure you've got enough) most of the time, and not so much on what society we would like to have, and how our institution could/should contribute to that. I do not have any suggestions on the type of studies that you ask about?dealing with how ecologies of scholarship in academia lead to given developmental dynamics?other than the classical studies in STS, like Latour & Woolgar's on laboratory life, or S. L. Star's. But when I look forward at what lies between me (or anyone in my institution) and a change in the way this institution has impact in the life of many, what I see is lots of routines, habits, documents, and paperwork entangled in the middle, such that the idea "mediation all the way through" makes all the sense. And seeing things that way (from the ecological perspective), makes the possibility of changing things to look actually feasible, or more accurately perhaps, imagine-able. I'd like to continue being part of the ecology to be able to be also be part of its changing it. I hope others will bring more specific literature to bear. I am already downloading some of Peter Sloterdijk's to read. Alfredo ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Greg Thompson Sent: 24 February 2018 17:45 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship I appreciate Huw's concern about academia and the push to orient to a broader and more systemic concern with "development". I think that this is what institutions of higher education are supposed to have, right? - at the very least a concern for the development of individual "students", but also, one would hope, a concern for "development" at a longer timescale (e.g., how to be a better society, a better world). They certainly tout these in their promo materials. And yet, in practice, these institutions often fall back on bureaucratic or economic logics. Bureaucratic logic goes something like, "just publish (in "good" (i.e., high impact factor) journals), who cares what you publish so long as we can count it to determine its (and your) 'value'(!)". As for the economic logic, I was just talking with Rick Shweder the other day about this issue and he expressed the concern about the push towards STEM education at the expense of all else and the way that STEM buildings are slowly starting to take over his campus (the University of Chicago - a place that was long held to be a hold out of liberal arts education - apparently they now have an engineering program). He suggested that this is tied to an early 80's court decision that gave universities ownership of patents developed on their campuses. To my mind, this calls to mind a concern with ecologies of development (across the shorter and longer timescales). What are the ecologies (social, economic, political, etc.) within which development (at these various timescales) occurs in our world today? This is really a question of what is possible and/or what is likely with regard to becoming. What are the forms of life and forms of development that are sustainable given the larger ecologies in which that development happens? And for thinking through that problem, I've had a hard time thinking of anyone who has better thought through this problem than Marx - at the longer timescale of development, that is (Vygotsky would, of course, be better at thinking through development at the shorter timescale of ontogeny). I'd love to hear others' thoughts on those who have studied activities that can begin to shed light on these ecologies of development (particularly at the longer timescale). Any thoughts/suggestions? I would imagine this work considering various kinds of institutions that run the gamut - from venture capitalist firms to non-profits to governmental institutions to institutions of higher education. I would presume that each of these kinds of institutions would have a local ecology within which they work, but I am tempted to imagine some kind of global meta-ecology (perhaps Marx's "global capitalism"?) within which each of these local ecologies operates. I'd be curious about actual research that has been done documenting the nature of these ecologies - e.g., what kinds of resources are available to be exploited? What kinds of possibilities are there for different forms of life? What institutional organisms can thrive? Which are dying off? (and just to be clear, I am intending a biological/evolutionary nature of the metaphor). It seems that this kind of work would be most likely to have been done by folks in the CHAT world, but perhaps the scale (of time and space) is a bit beyond the scales that CHAT folks prefer to consider? (I should add that I've recently discovered the work of Peter Sloterdijk's Bubbles trilogy and am curious if anyone has any thoughts on the value of his approach - it seems to fit very well with Marx and with CHAT/Vygotsky, my only initial concern was that he seems to fly a little fast and loose with pyschoanalytics at times - not a serious problem, but perhaps in a few places). Sympathetically, greg On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 1:57 PM, Huw Lloyd < huw.softdesigns@gmail.com wrote: Well, I would say there is more to it than simply transfer-ability, which might be thought of as a good bureaucratic requirement. Really what is required is genuine development -- reorganisation of thought and learning. That is what is significant at a personal level, which is also the basis of insights and creative work (i.e. personal knowledge rather than second hand knowledge). The researcher in the blog article does not evince this (with allusions to the nature of her training). There is the history school children learn, which largely concerns the use of memory, and then there is the history of conditions, relations and processes, which concerns protracted thought. This developmental emphasis is what is lacking in institutions which is why I have frequently pointed it out. This principle apples to "secure" jobs too. The jobs I have walked away from have been due to the overly narrow scope, where I felt it was necessary to be far more ambitious to achieve modest satisfaction, an ambition which included achieving the wider scope within the norms established. Similar issues pertain to my peripheral engagement with academia. Twenty years ago, after completing a masters in cognitive science (a good year), I decided against pursuing any further formal education with any immediacy due to my sense that what I was encountering in the subject (and related subjects) was fundamentally wrong or inadequate, but I couldn't quite discern what that was. So, for me, I had no interest in furthering the academic course at the time, because I was concerned with understanding, doing, discovering and development, not being a "good researcher". I was and am uninterested in the trappings of academia, what it looks like from the outside (with dubious ethics of promoting those in society who least need it) -- hence I am not too bothered about where the experiences come from. After all, if you want sound knowledge then it should be validated in places where it counts (in action), not in an echo chamber of words. From my (developmental) perspective academia appears to be chockfull of unproductive thinking. The lack of systems understanding in the social sciences (which has been pointed out by key persons for two generations) I find to be quite incredible. This, as far as I can see, is the panacea to the stasis and lethargy that I have seen in certain institutions, where there are people in secure jobs with no interest in revitalising an institution (perhaps the same people who rely upon their status for authority). In the UK, in the social sciences, the whole social science infrastructure is built upon a notion of quality that is ignorant of systems -- that is the degree to which unproductive thinking has penetrated social science. Yet there is much more to it still. Recently I have also come to a surprising awareness that developmental prerogatives have rather a significant amount in common with spiritual ones. So I would offer broader advice than Michael's of staying clear of hardship. It may be that in that "nadir" something surprising may be discovered. For anyone with a passion "job security" is not a goal, at best it is a means to an ends, at worst it is an obstacle. Over and out. :) Best, Huw On 20 February 2018 at 07:12, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: Huw, Helena, and all, thanks to you both for taking the discussion where I was hoping it to go further: first, towards a reflection on the nature of training academic scholars go through as it concerns the classical problem of learning "transfer"; and then, as it regards the question of academic freedom (which actually may be the same question, just taken in a language more adequate to an ecological understanding of the problem). This is absolutely not just an individual problem. And, on that matter, I should be clear that I am a privileged in a privileged land, where, despite all uncertainty and pains that my family have gone and go through, I have today a good background and network, and probably better prospects than the majority of junior scholars out there. Not that I have earned this privilege for nothing: my migrant history and that of my family is all connected to an effort and quest to get better chances of academic opportunity in this market Helena talks about. But my personal story, as that of the historian in the article shared or of my French astronomer friend, are relevant in as far as they help us reflect on just those questions. They really also make one wonder on the sense of the term "academic freedom", for the latter term cannot be about doing whatever research you want to do independently of some market conditions and societal needs and economy. We may then pose the questions, what type of "freedom" is the "freedom" current systems (of incentives, of ISI lists) afford, and what type of system could allow for another meaning of the term "freedom"? Not to get too abstract, I guess that those reflections may be best pondered along concrete cases, if people is willing to take on Helena's suggestion to share particular stories of all that goes into getting into secured academic job positions, or else, of pursuing (in)dependent careers outside/at the borders of/across academia. Alfredo ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu Sent: 19 February 2018 19:19 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship In the interests of widening the discussion: I?ve described my work history before on this list ? basically, moving from teaching literature and writing (with stopovers in landscape architecture and theater production) to concern about the working conditions of teachers, especially academics in higher education, the 75% who are contingent/adjuncts. The concern is both for the people employed this way and for the integrity of the institutions that employ them. I eventually engaged this concern by working with and for the labor movement, ending up first working for the garment/apparel workers union in Philadelphia and then at the Labor Educaiton Program at the U of Illinois, from which I retired in 2010. The new twist to this story is about the employment of academics on short-term contracts in Viet Nam, under conditions that seem to be increasingly frequent in the ?developing? world, where the market for education is booming. University World News http://www . universityworldnews.com/ tracks this phenomenon and includes occasinal critical articles about the competition for rankings. The university where my husband and I have been teaching on and off since 2015, Ton Duc Thang in Ho Chi Minh City, recruits professors from all over the world with a promise of $2,000 per month US ? but extending their contracts depends on producing articles published in journals on the ISI list; the nature of this list is worth taking a look at. The impact of this practice on the culture and student body is not all bad. My point here is to place the issue of the challenge of getting a tenure-track job in a global context. This is not just an individual problem. I?m willing to go further down this line of discussion. However, academics are often reluctant to reveal and compare their working conditions on an ?academic? discussion list. Maybe by putting up the issue of what academic freedom requires, and how these requirements fare in the global market for higher education, we can shed the embarassment of revealing information about our own experiences with getting the brass ring of a full-time, secure job. Let?s see if anyone picks up on this. Maybe I?m being too vague. Helena Worthen helenaworthen@gmail.com Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745 Blog US/ Viet Nam: helenaworthen.wordpress.com skype: helena.worthen1 On Feb 19, 2018, at 9:19 AM, Huw Lloyd wrote: The article describes accumulating large amounts of knowledge pertaining to history, which (the author maintains) cannot be turned to other endeavours. This, no doubt, is true for her. If, however, her approach to studying history had been systemic, then there would have been a powerful form of re-application and continuity in any work that was turned to. Perhaps the same can be said for "phd/postdoc training". If it cannot be reused or isn't enabling, what, substantively, is it? Best, Huw On 18 February 2018 at 18:32, Alfredo Jornet Gil < a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> wrote: Really inspiring words and work, Francine. I do see community colleges and many other educational settings apart from universities as really valuable and exciting opportunities; the PhD and following postdoc etc training in universities, however, tend to be very much targeted towards a very narrow spectrum of positions, or at least that's been my experience. I am very happy that this thread may widen that scope and make visible other paths. And as Mike suggested, it would be very interesting to hear from several others who have followed distinct trajectories apart from the phd-postdoc-assist/assoc. prof-prof, and yet made a career in touch with most of what was developed in the junior (phd and few later) years. Thanks! Alfredo ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Larry Smolucha Sent: 18 February 2018 06:20 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship Message from Francine Smolucha on a scholar's life with or without academia Alfredo, There are other jobs that pay well (sometimes with tenure and early retirement benefits) - besides professorships at four year colleges and universities. Administrative and support staff positions pay well. And don't overlook community colleges, technical colleges, and public grade schools and high schools. There is also the private sector and government jobs. As a 'low status' community college professor, I managed to translate Vygotsky's overlooked writings on creativity (back in the 1980's) and introduced his theory of creativity to academia. I got early retirement at age 53 and continue to write and publish. While my Ph.D from the University of Chicago gave me academic bona fides, it was the quality of the scholarly work that ultimately mattered. I was always inspired by the harsh circumstances of Vygotsky's life and how he still kept on writing. [When I felt really sorry for myself, I would actually say "Well at least I am not coughing up blood"] So many of his works were not published in his lifetime, he did not collect a royalties check, and they say he was depressed at the end of his life. I leave you with this quote from an ancient Sufi mystic - You can't always get what you want but you can get what you need . ________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of mike cole Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:07 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship Yours is a quandary shared by your generation, Alfredo. Being allowed to teach and conduct research in a quality institution is a great privilege and an increasingly rarer possibility. There are several people on this list who have organized their lives to be independent scholars while staying connected to the core institutions of disciplinary training. It might be nice to hear the variety out there. It appears pretty certain that the situation is going to get worse before/if it gets better. What can the collective experience of xmca come up with that would be useful to the many of you caught in this meat grinder? mike On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> wrote: Good luck then, Wagner! A ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu References: <1518911129389.17778@iped.uio.no> <1518914964416.39650@iped.uio.no> <1518978734957.93647@iped.uio.no> <87FCF1E0-1B28-4F92-A85C-9E5A10424B74@gmail.com> <1519110745104.46827@iped.uio.no> <1519598399026.36406@iped.uio.no> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AD5C72@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F953AEE329@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <1519887325986.67284@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: Well, I remember a few years ago when I wanted to do a PhD and couldn't afford it to take the time off, I was looking into various programmes that would allow me to study and work at the same time. Professor Roth thought this a very bad idea, because it would deprive the university of my presence. And I remember that this whole thread started with similar reflections: a young woman who was leaving academia wondered what we lose when we lose someone like her. So I think the real question is what we are missing when we publish only what professors think? What are we missing when the mainstream academic effluvia have eroded well worn channels designed to lubricate the tenure track? Perhaps I can shed some light on this. I am in receipt of a very diplomatic set of reviews from a major journal in the field of linguistics and education. It was for a very simple article I wrote on why Vygotsky measures his ZPD in years, something that Professor Roth and I have crossed swords on in the pages of MCA only recently. I had addressed the issue using ONLY the mainstream views of the ZPD published in that very linguistics and education journal, because I thought it would give the editor evidence that I was a real reader and not just a professor out to bolster my cv, and also because I thought the journal would like to set the record straight or at least publish the other side of the question. Oh, the editors and reviewers were very polite (although the editor did note that I didn't have a PhD yet). I was complimented on my (poor) command of Russian. My contribution was said to be well written and well sourced, and it was admitted that it had a major contribution to make to Vygotsky studies (I don't really agree with that--everybody actually KNOWS that the ZPD has to be measured in years, it's just that people who have built their careers around the contrary assumption will not admit it openly). But they said they could not publish it, simply because they had already published too much on the subject. My own references were cited as proof. David Kellogg Recent Article in *Mind, Culture, and Activity* 24 (4) 'Metaphoric, Metonymic, Eclectic, or Dialectic? A Commentary on ?Neoformation: A Dialectical Approach to Developmental Change?' Free e-print available (for a short time only) at http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/YAWPBtmPM8knMCNg6sS6/full On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 4:02 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > I can testify of the fact that M. Roth is among those who runs without > racing, and goes biking in the morning, gardening in the afternoon... > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On 1 Mar 2018, at 07:57, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > > > > Absolutely Greg; fishing in the morning and criticising after dinner > sounds really good to me! Marx's formulation seems totally relevant here, > and his sounds like an ecological perspective too, but with subject, with > content (where other formulations sound to me very useful, yet somehow > content-less, abstract, I guess). But, where does a communist society > begin? Or perhaps the question is, when does it begin? And what can current > caught-up critical critics do to go fishing in the morning, apart from > running races to secure steadily raising salaries in current society? Those > well read Marxists could come handy here and give us a hand and help us > getting started! > > Alfredo > > ________________________________________ > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Greg Thompson > > Sent: 01 March 2018 05:47 > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > > > > Michael G, > > Yes, I think you've really hit the nail on the head in pointing to the > > ecology within which academia sits. Apologies for being a gadfly here and > > simply pointing to a problem without pointing to a solution. > > > > How about we turn back to Marx?: > > > > "For as soon as the distribution of labour comes into being, each man > has a > > particular, exclusive sphere of activity, which is forced upon him and > from > > which he cannot escape. He is a hunter, a fisherman, a herdsman, or a > > critical critic, and must remain so if he does not want to lose his means > > of livelihood; while in communist society, where nobody has one exclusive > > sphere of activity but each can become accomplished in any branch he > > wishes, society regulates the general production and thus makes it > possible > > for me to do one thing today and another tomorrow, to hunt in the > morning, > > fish in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening, criticise after > dinner, > > just as I have a mind, without ever becoming hunter, fisherman, herdsman > or > > critic. This fixation of social activity, this consolidation of what we > > ourselves produce into an objective power above us, growing out of our > > control, thwarting our expectations, bringing to naught our calculations, > > is one of the chief factors in historical development up till now." > > > > In Marx's view, we can all be academics (i.e., "critical critics"). > > What do you think? > > -greg > > > > > > On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 8:26 PM, Glassman, Michael > > wrote: > > > >> Hi Greg, > >> > >> Here is my question. If we go to slow academics how do we determine on > the > >> distribution of resources? If we give people a lot of time to conduct > >> their work who gets that time? > >> > >> I think the scarcity of academic resources is very much a corporate > >> phenomenon. There really should be enough resources for everybody to > pursue > >> academics as they wish. > >> > >> The peer review system and the publish or perish ethos is deeply flawed > >> and causes a lot of research that shouldn't be done, let alone > published. > >> But if not at least a semblance of a level playing field you get with > blind > >> review then how do you decide who deserves the resources. Is it based on > >> connections, networks, who you know, where you went to school? Does > >> cultural capital become that much more important? Is this less > democratic > >> or more democratic? > >> > >> To tell you the truth I don't know. The flaw is in the scarcity though, > >> not the system it seems to me. That we have allowed for a large academic > >> diaspora to emerge that is forced to teach for little money and no > >> benefits. Something we all allowed to happen. > >> > >> Michael > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > >> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Greg Thompson > >> Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2018 9:10 PM > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > >> > >> (oh, and I didn't mean to be exclusive in pointing to Michael's work, > >> there are many others on the list who would fit this description!) > >> > >> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 7:08 PM, Greg Thompson < > greg.a.thompson@gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Yes, Michael, totally agreed. And I see you as a rare exception to the > >>> production mill. Whereas you manage to prolifically produce important > >>> writings, much of what is published is, to my mind, written too > >>> hurriedly and lacks the quality and importance of publications like > >> yours. > >>> -greg > >>> > >>> > >>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 5:33 PM, Wolff-Michael Roth < > >>> wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Greg, not all people will think being publishing machines. Some, like > >>>> myself, enjoy spending many hours a day writing, analyzing etc. and > >>>> turning all of this into peer-reviewed articles. > >>>> > >>>> I referred to my earliest experience before, when I was told I would > >>>> not make tenure; and I felt I would not be able to make the 2 > >>>> articles or so per year in high quality journals. > >>>> > >>>> But after an absence from academia, it changed. I started doing > >>>> research for myself initially, and then wrote it up. From then on, it > >>>> was different, writing was something I wanted to do, and the more I > >>>> did, the better I got at it. (Not that the peer-review process would > >>>> have gotten easier.) > >>>> > >>>> I do admit, though, that the system as set up right now then tends to > >>>> reward people who publish more than others, and in "better" journals. > >>>> > >>>> And it depends on context. In the department that I am affiliated > >>>> with, there are people promoted and tenured without at least a > >>>> handful of articles in commonly recognized journals. And if you are > >>>> happy with an average increase in your salary, you don't have to get > >>>> stressed in our place either. > >>>> > >>>> Michael > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 4:04 PM, Greg Thompson > >>>> >>>>> > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> I once toyed with the idea of "slow scholarship" and I remain > >>>>> entirely convinced that this is a virtue. But once I was entered > >>>>> into the competition/race of academia, it was all about how fast > >>>>> you can get to > >>>> the > >>>>> finish line (aka "publications"). > >>>>> > >>>>> Perhaps there is something good about this (assuming that it is > >>>>> better > >>>> to > >>>>> publish something than to not publish anything), but it also has > >>>>> the nefarious effect of turning scholars into cogs in publishing > >> factories. > >>>>> > >>>>> And, continuing in this cynical spirit, I might add that the > >>>>> Science article about "Slow" actually seems to be making the same > >>>>> case for > >>>> speed - > >>>>> maybe it isn't a sprint, but it is still a race and first one to > >>>>> the > >>>> finish > >>>>> line wins, so you better pick up the pace! Fast! > >>>>> > >>>>> And re: the man whispering in his ear as he runs: > >>>>> "We see how in this way the mode of production and the means of > >>>> production > >>>>> are continually transformed, revolutionised, *how the division of > >>>> labour is > >>>>> necessarily followed by greater divisions of labour, the > >>>>> application of machinery by still greater application of machinery, > >>>>> work on a large > >>>> scale > >>>>> by work on a still larger scale.* > >>>>> > >>>>> "That is the law which again and again throws bourgeois production > >>>>> out > >>>> of > >>>>> its old course and which compels capital to intensify the > >>>>> productive > >>>> forces > >>>>> of labour, *because *it has intensified them, it, the law which > >>>>> gives capital no rest and continually whispers in its ear: 'Go on! Go > >> on!'" > >>>>> (Marx - Wage Labour and Capital). > >>>>> > >>>>> -greg? > >>>>> > >>>>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 3:11 PM, Wolff-Michael Roth < > >>>>> wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Hi all, > >>>>>> this article "In praise of slow" appears to be fitting the > >> discussion. > >>>>> The > >>>>>> author uses a nice analogy with running. Michael > >>>>>> http://science.sciencemag.org/content/359/6375/602 > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 8:40 AM, Huw Lloyd > >>>>>> >>>>> > >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> "Assessing their abilities and accomplishments in this regard > >>>>>>> was a > >>>>>> matter > >>>>>>> of judgment and so could not be quantified; it could be > >>>>>>> exercised > >>>> only > >>>>> by > >>>>>>> those capable of it." > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I would say, "cannot be quantified simply". > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Best, > >>>>>>> Huw > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On 26 February 2018 at 15:05, Greg Thompson < > >>>> greg.a.thompson@gmail.com > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> And here is a nice article that speaks to the bureaucratic > >>>>>>>> logic > >>>>> that I > >>>>>>> was > >>>>>>>> mentioning (the author refers to "the all-administrative > >>>>> institution"): > >>>>>>>> https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/whose-university-is-it- > >>>> anyway/#! > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> A quote from it: > >>>>>>>> "The revolution is over and the administrators have won. But > >>>>>>>> the persistence of traditional structures and language has > >>>>>>>> led some to > >>>>>> think > >>>>>>>> that the fight over the institution is now just beginning. > >>>>>>>> This > >>>> is a > >>>>>>>> mistake. As with most revolutions, open conflict occurs only > >>>>>>>> after > >>>>> real > >>>>>>>> power has already changed hands." > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> -greg > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 6:27 PM, Martin Packer < > >>>> mpacker@cantab.net> > >>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> On STEM and social science: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> < >>>>>>>>> doctors-revolt-bernard-lown.html?action=click&pgtype= > >>>>>>>>> Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col- > >>>>>>>>> left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav= > >>>>>>>>> opinion-c-col-left-region >>>>>>>>> 02/24/opinion/sunday/doctors-revolt-bernard-lown.html? > >>>>>>>>> action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading& > >>>>>>>>> module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c-col- > >>>>>>>>> left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> On measures of learning: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> - measure-learning-outcomes.html?action=click&pgtype= > >>>>>>>>> Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col- > >>>>>>>>> left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav= > >>>>>>>>> opinion-c-col-left-region >>>>>>>>> 02/23/opinion/sunday/colleges-measure-learning-outcomes. > >>>>>>>>> html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story- > >>>>>>>>> heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c- > >>>>>>>>> col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Martin > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> On Feb 25, 2018, at 8:15 PM, Glassman, Michael < > >>>>>> glassman.13@osu.edu> > >>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Hi Huw, > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Perhaps the opposite is also true though. STEM > >>>>>>>>>> researchers > >>>> can > >>>>>>> better > >>>>>>>>> understand what they are doing if they are well versed in > >>>>>>>>> the > >>>>> social > >>>>>>>>> sciences. Understand the history and the meaning of what > >>>>>>>>> they > >>>> are > >>>>>> doing > >>>>>>>> so > >>>>>>>>> they do not act as androids (sorry, been watching the > >>>>>>>>> Aliens > >>>>> trilogy > >>>>>> of > >>>>>>>>> late). Perhaps we made the wrong calculation. We have lost > >>>> control > >>>>> of > >>>>>>> our > >>>>>>>>> great STEM innovations because the people using them don't > >>>>> understand > >>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>> social webs that they create. So we have people pushing > >>>>>>>>> xMOOCs > >>>>>>> (whatever > >>>>>>>>> happened to MOOCs anyway) as saving education (and also a > >>>> bundle so > >>>>>>>>> everybody gets tax cuts, wheeee!), saying that they are > >>>>>>>>> good > >>>>> because > >>>>>>> they > >>>>>>>>> can reach many, the proverbial long tail, with great > >>>>>>>>> education > >>>>>>> (Harvard, > >>>>>>>>> Stanford). Yet nobody asks the question, "Why is this a > >>>>>>>>> good > >>>>> thing." > >>>>>>>> There > >>>>>>>>> really isn't much supporting this in earlier distance > >> education. > >>>>>> There > >>>>>>>> is > >>>>>>>>> actually more evidence of how dangerous it is > >>>>>>>>> (Participatory > >>>> Action > >>>>>>>>> Research). > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Michael > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >>>>>>>>>> [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > >>>>>>>>> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Huw Lloyd > >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2018 7:32 PM > >>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> I would ask, what makes you think you have an ecology (or > >>>> niche)? > >>>>>> It > >>>>>>>>> seems that the notion of topologically derived ecologies is > >>>> still > >>>>>>> bandied > >>>>>>>>> about since Bronfenbrenner (1977), though I do not know > >>>>>>>>> whether > >>>> he > >>>>>>>> managed > >>>>>>>>> to refine (overhaul and improve) his notions into something > >>>>>> integrated > >>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>> agent-centric. One does not provide an ecology or an > >>>> environment. > >>>>> The > >>>>>>>>> environment is different for everyone, a simple > >>>>>>>>> consideration > >>>> of a > >>>>>>>>> rock-face or climbing wall is sufficient to grasp this -- > >>>>>>>>> the so > >>>>>> called > >>>>>>>>> environment (the rock face) is different to each climber, > >>>>>>>>> their > >>>>>>>> environment > >>>>>>>>> is that which is appropriate to them which includes > >>>>>>>>> contexts > >>>> well > >>>>>>> beyond > >>>>>>>>> what is established in an institution. From what I can > >>>>>>>>> gauge, > >>>>>>>> historically, > >>>>>>>>> slack was deliberately introduced into courses to afford > >>>> personal > >>>>>>>> enquiry. > >>>>>>>>>> There was the basic work and then there was the genuine > >>>> enquiry. > >>>>>> Who > >>>>>>> in > >>>>>>>>> their right mind wants to write an exam essay on a question > >>>>>>>>> they > >>>>> are > >>>>>>>>> expected to pre-write and repeat by memory? Why would > >>>>>>>>> someone > >>>> who > >>>>>>> enjoys > >>>>>>>>> thinking about their subject want to go through that kind > >>>>>>>>> of > >>>>>>> impoverished > >>>>>>>>> tedium? These systems are obviously geared for "delivery". > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Perhaps the biggest cultural shift can be achieved > >>>>>>>>>> through > >>>>>>> instituting > >>>>>>>>> joint and personal enquiry. A teacher that stands before > >>>>>>>>> their > >>>>> class > >>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>> delivers their subject inevitably obscures and obstructs > >>>>>>>>> the > >>>>> process > >>>>>> of > >>>>>>>>> enquiry, although many students will have learnt from a > >>>>>>>>> young > >>>> age > >>>>>> that > >>>>>>>> this > >>>>>>>>> is what to expect and demand. Engagement with genuine > >>>>>>>>> problems > >>>>> rather > >>>>>>>> than > >>>>>>>>> what students are expected to do is the basic orientational > >>>> issue. > >>>>>>>> Dispose > >>>>>>>>> of grades, then anyone who isn't interested is free to go > >> home. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> The advance of STEM research is probably a good thing for > >>>> social > >>>>>>>> science. > >>>>>>>>>> For productive work, social science must understand the > >>>> structure > >>>>>> of > >>>>>>>>> STEM based work, in addition to bureaucratic processes and > >>>>>>> circumstances > >>>>>>>>> for creative work. Sticking one's head in the sand over > >>>> STEM-like > >>>>>>>> research > >>>>>>>>> serves merely to perpetuate the impoverished side of social > >>>>> science. > >>>>>> It > >>>>>>>>> reminds me of the scene in Pirsig's Zen and the Art of > >>>> Motorcycle > >>>>>>>>> Maintenance in which a couple lack the wherewithal to fix a > >>>>> dripping > >>>>>>>> faucet > >>>>>>>>> that gives them grief and instead choose to ignore it. > >>>>>>>>> Though it > >>>>> was > >>>>>> a > >>>>>>>> very > >>>>>>>>> long time ago, Pirsig's book may have contributed to my > >>>>> understanding > >>>>>>> of > >>>>>>>>> quality and might be thought of as an exploration of some > >>>>>>>>> social > >>>>>> issues > >>>>>>>>> pertaining to technical enterprises. Another good text to > >>>>> appreciate > >>>>>>>>> quality more directly, probably outside the formal area of > >>>> STEM, is > >>>>>>>>> Alshuller's Innovation Algorithm. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Warm regards to you Henry, Greg, Alfredo. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Best, > >>>>>>>>>> Huw > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> On 25 February 2018 at 22:39, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > >>>>>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > >>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Greg, Huw, and others, I do often get worried that in > >>>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>> formals > >>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>>>> informal meetings at our department (department of > >>>> education), > >>>>>>>>>>> conversations tend to focus on the "micro" developments > >>>>>>>>>>> that > >>>> you > >>>>>>>>>>> mention (students, grades, getting a next grant, getting > >>>>>>>>>>> that > >>>>>> paper > >>>>>>>>>>> published, making sure you've got enough) most of the > >>>>>>>>>>> time, > >>>> and > >>>>>> not > >>>>>>> so > >>>>>>>>>>> much on what society we would like to have, and how our > >>>>>> institution > >>>>>>>>>>> could/should contribute to that. I do not have any > >>>> suggestions > >>>>> on > >>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>> type of studies that you ask about?dealing with how > >>>> ecologies of > >>>>>>>>>>> scholarship in academia lead to given developmental > >>>>> dynamics?other > >>>>>>>>>>> than the classical studies in STS, like Latour & > >>>>>>>>>>> Woolgar's on laboratory life, or S. L. Star's. But when > >>>>>>>>>>> I look forward at > >>>>> what > >>>>>>> lies > >>>>>>>>>>> between me (or anyone in my institution) and a change in > >>>>>>>>>>> the > >>>> way > >>>>>>> this > >>>>>>>>>>> institution has impact in the life of many, what I see > >>>>>>>>>>> is > >>>> lots > >>>>> of > >>>>>>>>>>> routines, habits, documents, and paperwork entangled in > >>>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>> middle, > >>>>>>>>>>> such that the idea "mediation all the way through" makes > >>>>>>>>>>> all > >>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>> sense. And seeing things that way (from the ecological > >>>>>> perspective), > >>>>>>>>>>> makes the possibility of changing things to look > >>>>>>>>>>> actually > >>>>>> feasible, > >>>>>>> or > >>>>>>>>>>> more accurately perhaps, imagine-able. I'd like to > >>>>>>>>>>> continue > >>>>> being > >>>>>>> part > >>>>>>>>>>> of the ecology to be able to be also be part of its > >>>>>>>>>>> changing > >>>>> it. I > >>>>>>>>>>> hope others will bring more specific literature to bear. > >>>>>>>>>>> I am > >>>>>>> already > >>>>>>>>> downloading some of Peter Sloterdijk's to read. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Alfredo > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >>>>>>>>>>> on behalf of Greg > >>>>>>>>>>> Thompson > >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: 24 February 2018 17:45 > >>>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> I appreciate Huw's concern about academia and the push > >>>>>>>>>>> to > >>>> orient > >>>>>> to > >>>>>>> a > >>>>>>>>>>> broader and more systemic concern with "development". I > >>>>>>>>>>> think > >>>>> that > >>>>>>>>>>> this is what institutions of higher education are > >>>>>>>>>>> supposed to > >>>>>> have, > >>>>>>>>>>> right? - at the very least a concern for the development > >>>>>>>>>>> of > >>>>>>> individual > >>>>>>>>>>> "students", but also, one would hope, a concern for > >>>>> "development" > >>>>>>> at a > >>>>>>>>>>> longer timescale (e.g., how to be a better society, a > >>>>>>>>>>> better > >>>>>> world). > >>>>>>>>>>> They certainly tout these in their promo materials. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> And yet, in practice, these institutions often fall back > >>>>>>>>>>> on bureaucratic or economic logics. Bureaucratic logic > >>>>>>>>>>> goes > >>>>> something > >>>>>>>>>>> like, "just publish (in "good" (i.e., high impact > >>>>>>>>>>> factor) > >>>>>> journals), > >>>>>>>>>>> who cares what you publish so long as we can count it to > >>>>> determine > >>>>>>> its > >>>>>>>>> (and your) 'value'(!)". > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> As for the economic logic, I was just talking with Rick > >>>> Shweder > >>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>> other day about this issue and he expressed the concern > >>>>>>>>>>> about > >>>>> the > >>>>>>> push > >>>>>>>>>>> towards STEM education at the expense of all else and > >>>>>>>>>>> the way > >>>>> that > >>>>>>>>>>> STEM buildings are slowly starting to take over his > >>>>>>>>>>> campus > >>>> (the > >>>>>>>>>>> University of Chicago - a place that was long held to be > >>>>>>>>>>> a > >>>> hold > >>>>>> out > >>>>>>> of > >>>>>>>>>>> liberal arts education - apparently they now have an > >>>> engineering > >>>>>>>>>>> program). He suggested that this is tied to an early > >>>>>>>>>>> 80's > >>>> court > >>>>>>>>>>> decision that gave universities ownership of patents > >>>> developed > >>>>> on > >>>>>>>> their > >>>>>>>>> campuses. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> To my mind, this calls to mind a concern with ecologies > >>>>>>>>>>> of > >>>>>>> development > >>>>>>>>>>> (across the shorter and longer timescales). What are the > >>>>> ecologies > >>>>>>>>>>> (social, economic, political, etc.) within which > >>>>>>>>>>> development > >>>> (at > >>>>>>> these > >>>>>>>>>>> various > >>>>>>>>>>> timescales) occurs in our world today? This is really a > >>>> question > >>>>>> of > >>>>>>>>>>> what is possible and/or what is likely with regard to > >>>> becoming. > >>>>>> What > >>>>>>>>>>> are the forms of life and forms of development that are > >>>>>> sustainable > >>>>>>>>>>> given the larger ecologies in which that development > >> happens? > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> And for thinking through that problem, I've had a hard > >>>>>>>>>>> time > >>>>>> thinking > >>>>>>>>>>> of anyone who has better thought through this problem > >>>>>>>>>>> than > >>>> Marx > >>>>> - > >>>>>> at > >>>>>>>>>>> the longer timescale of development, that is (Vygotsky > >>>> would, of > >>>>>>>>>>> course, be better at thinking through development at the > >>>> shorter > >>>>>>>>>>> timescale of ontogeny). > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> I'd love to hear others' thoughts on those who have > >>>>>>>>>>> studied > >>>>>>> activities > >>>>>>>>>>> that can begin to shed light on these ecologies of > >>>> development > >>>>>>>>>>> (particularly at the longer timescale). Any > >>>>> thoughts/suggestions? > >>>>>> I > >>>>>>>>>>> would imagine this work considering various kinds of > >>>>> institutions > >>>>>>> that > >>>>>>>>>>> run the gamut - from venture capitalist firms to > >>>>>>>>>>> non-profits > >>>> to > >>>>>>>>>>> governmental institutions to institutions of higher > >>>> education. I > >>>>>>> would > >>>>>>>>>>> presume that each of these kinds of institutions would > >>>>>>>>>>> have a > >>>>>> local > >>>>>>>>>>> ecology within which they work, but I am tempted to > >>>>>>>>>>> imagine > >>>> some > >>>>>>> kind > >>>>>>>>>>> of global meta-ecology (perhaps Marx's "global > >>>>>>>>>>> capitalism"?) within which each of these local ecologies > >>>>> operates. > >>>>>>> I'd > >>>>>>>>>>> be curious about actual research that has been done > >>>> documenting > >>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>> nature of these ecologies - e.g., what kinds of > >>>>>>>>>>> resources are available to be exploited? What kinds of > >>>>>>>>>>> possibilities are > >>>> there > >>>>>> for > >>>>>>>>>>> different forms of life? What institutional organisms > >>>>>>>>>>> can > >>>>> thrive? > >>>>>>>>>>> Which are dying off? (and just to be clear, I am > >>>>>>>>>>> intending a biological/evolutionary nature of the > >> metaphor). > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> It seems that this kind of work would be most likely to > >>>>>>>>>>> have > >>>>> been > >>>>>>> done > >>>>>>>>>>> by folks in the CHAT world, but perhaps the scale (of > >>>>>>>>>>> time > >>>> and > >>>>>>> space) > >>>>>>>>>>> is a bit beyond the scales that CHAT folks prefer to > >>>> consider? > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> (I should add that I've recently discovered the work of > >>>>>>>>>>> Peter Sloterdijk's Bubbles trilogy and am curious if > >>>>>>>>>>> anyone has any > >>>>>>> thoughts > >>>>>>>>>>> on the value of his approach - it seems to fit very well > >>>>>>>>>>> with > >>>>> Marx > >>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>>>> with CHAT/Vygotsky, my only initial concern was that he > >>>> seems to > >>>>>>> fly a > >>>>>>>>>>> little fast and loose with pyschoanalytics at times - > >>>>>>>>>>> not a > >>>>>> serious > >>>>>>>>>>> problem, but perhaps in a few places). > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Sympathetically, > >>>>>>>>>>> greg > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 1:57 PM, Huw Lloyd < > >>>>>>> huw.softdesigns@gmail.com > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Well, I would say there is more to it than simply > >>>>>> transfer-ability, > >>>>>>>>>>>> which might be thought of as a good bureaucratic > >>>> requirement. > >>>>>>> Really > >>>>>>>>>>>> what is required is genuine development -- > >>>>>>>>>>>> reorganisation of > >>>>>>> thought > >>>>>>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>>>> learning. > >>>>>>>>>>>> That is what is significant at a personal level, which > >>>>>>>>>>>> is > >>>> also > >>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>> basis > >>>>>>>>>>> of > >>>>>>>>>>>> insights and creative work (i.e. personal knowledge > >>>>>>>>>>>> rather > >>>> than > >>>>>>>>>>>> second > >>>>>>>>>>> hand > >>>>>>>>>>>> knowledge). The researcher in the blog article does not > >>>> evince > >>>>>> this > >>>>>>>>>>>> (with allusions to the nature of her training). There > >>>>>>>>>>>> is the > >>>>>>> history > >>>>>>>>>>>> school children learn, which largely concerns the use > >>>>>>>>>>>> of > >>>>> memory, > >>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>>>>> then there > >>>>>>>>>>> is > >>>>>>>>>>>> the history of conditions, relations and processes, > >>>>>>>>>>>> which > >>>>>> concerns > >>>>>>>>>>>> protracted thought. This developmental emphasis is what > >>>>>>>>>>>> is > >>>>>> lacking > >>>>>>>>>>>> in institutions which is why I have frequently pointed > >>>>>>>>>>>> it > >>>> out. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> This principle apples to "secure" jobs too. The jobs I > >>>>>>>>>>>> have > >>>>>> walked > >>>>>>>>>>>> away from have been due to the overly narrow scope, > >>>>>>>>>>>> where I > >>>>> felt > >>>>>> it > >>>>>>>>>>>> was necessary to be far more ambitious to achieve > >>>>>>>>>>>> modest satisfaction, an ambition which included > >>>>>>>>>>>> achieving the wider > >>>>>> scope > >>>>>>>>>>>> within the norms established. Similar issues pertain to > >>>>>>>>>>>> my peripheral engagement with academia. Twenty years > >>>>>>>>>>>> ago, after completing a masters in cognitive > >>>>>>>>>>> science > >>>>>>>>>>>> (a good year), I decided against pursuing any further > >>>>>>>>>>>> formal education > >>>>>>>>>>> with > >>>>>>>>>>>> any immediacy due to my sense that what I was > >>>>>>>>>>>> encountering > >>>> in > >>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>> subject (and related subjects) was fundamentally wrong > >>>>>>>>>>>> or inadequate, but I couldn't quite discern what that > >>>>>>>>>>>> was. So, > >>>> for > >>>>>> me, > >>>>>>>>>>>> I had no interest in furthering the academic course at > >>>>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>> time, > >>>>>>>>>>>> because I was concerned with understanding, doing, > >>>> discovering > >>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>>>>> development, not being a "good researcher". I was and > >>>>>>>>>>>> am uninterested in the trappings of academia, what it > >>>>>>>>>>>> looks > >>>> like > >>>>>> from > >>>>>>>>>>>> the outside (with dubious ethics of promoting those in > >>>> society > >>>>>> who > >>>>>>>>>>>> least need it) -- hence I am not too bothered about > >>>>>>>>>>>> where > >>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>> experiences come from. After all, if you want sound > >>>> knowledge > >>>>>> then > >>>>>>>>>>>> it should be validated in places where it counts (in > >>>> action), > >>>>> not > >>>>>>> in > >>>>>>>>> an echo chamber of words. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> From my (developmental) perspective academia appears > >>>>>>>>>>>>> to be chockfull of > >>>>>>>>>>>> unproductive thinking. The lack of systems > >>>>>>>>>>>> understanding in > >>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>> social sciences (which has been pointed out by key > >>>>>>>>>>>> persons > >>>> for > >>>>>> two > >>>>>>>>>>>> generations) > >>>>>>>>>>> I > >>>>>>>>>>>> find to be quite incredible. This, as far as I can see, > >>>>>>>>>>>> is > >>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>> panacea to the stasis and lethargy that I have seen in > >>>> certain > >>>>>>>>>>>> institutions, where there are people in secure jobs > >>>>>>>>>>>> with no > >>>>>>> interest > >>>>>>>>>>>> in revitalising an institution (perhaps the same people > >>>>>>>>>>>> who > >>>>> rely > >>>>>>>>>>>> upon their status for authority). In the UK, in the > >>>>>>>>>>>> social > >>>>>>> sciences, > >>>>>>>>>>>> the whole social science infrastructure is built upon a > >>>> notion > >>>>> of > >>>>>>>>>>>> quality that is ignorant of systems -- that is the > >>>>>>>>>>>> degree to > >>>>>> which > >>>>>>>>>>>> unproductive thinking has > >>>>>>>>>>> penetrated > >>>>>>>>>>>> social science. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Yet there is much more to it still. Recently I have > >>>>>>>>>>>> also > >>>> come > >>>>> to > >>>>>> a > >>>>>>>>>>>> surprising awareness that developmental prerogatives > >>>>>>>>>>>> have > >>>>> rather > >>>>>> a > >>>>>>>>>>>> significant amount in common with spiritual ones. So I > >>>>>>>>>>>> would > >>>>>> offer > >>>>>>>>>>> broader > >>>>>>>>>>>> advice than Michael's of staying clear of hardship. It > >>>>>>>>>>>> may > >>>> be > >>>>>> that > >>>>>>>>>>>> in > >>>>>>>>>>> that > >>>>>>>>>>>> "nadir" something surprising may be discovered. For > >>>>>>>>>>>> anyone > >>>>> with a > >>>>>>>>>>>> passion "job security" is not a goal, at best it is a > >>>>>>>>>>>> means > >>>> to > >>>>> an > >>>>>>>>>>>> ends, at worst > >>>>>>>>>>> it > >>>>>>>>>>>> is an obstacle. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Over and out. :) > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Best, > >>>>>>>>>>>> Huw > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On 20 February 2018 at 07:12, Alfredo Jornet Gil > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Huw, Helena, and all, > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> thanks to you both for taking the discussion where I > >>>>>>>>>>>>> was > >>>>> hoping > >>>>>> it > >>>>>>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>>>> go > >>>>>>>>>>>>> further: first, towards a reflection on the nature of > >>>> training > >>>>>>>>>>>>> academic scholars go through as it concerns the > >>>>>>>>>>>>> classical > >>>>>> problem > >>>>>>>>>>>>> of learning "transfer"; and then, as it regards the > >>>> question > >>>>> of > >>>>>>>>>>>>> academic freedom > >>>>>>>>>>>> (which > >>>>>>>>>>>>> actually may be the same question, just taken in a > >>>>>>>>>>>>> language > >>>>> more > >>>>>>>>>>> adequate > >>>>>>>>>>>>> to an ecological understanding of the problem). This > >>>>>>>>>>>>> is > >>>>>> absolutely > >>>>>>>>>>>>> not > >>>>>>>>>>>> just > >>>>>>>>>>>>> an individual problem. And, on that matter, I should > >>>>>>>>>>>>> be > >>>> clear > >>>>>> that > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I > >>>>>>>>>>> am a > >>>>>>>>>>>>> privileged in a privileged land, where, despite all > >>>>> uncertainty > >>>>>>>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>>>> pains > >>>>>>>>>>>>> that my family have gone and go through, I have today > >>>>>>>>>>>>> a > >>>> good > >>>>>>>>>>>>> background > >>>>>>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>>>>>> network, and probably better prospects than the > >>>>>>>>>>>>> majority of > >>>>>> junior > >>>>>>>>>>>> scholars > >>>>>>>>>>>>> out there. Not that I have earned this privilege for > >>>> nothing: > >>>>> my > >>>>>>>>>>> migrant > >>>>>>>>>>>>> history and that of my family is all connected to an > >>>>>>>>>>>>> effort > >>>>> and > >>>>>>>>>>>>> quest > >>>>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>>>>>> get better chances of academic opportunity in this > >>>>>>>>>>>>> market > >>>>> Helena > >>>>>>>>>>>>> talks about. But my personal story, as that of the > >>>> historian > >>>>> in > >>>>>>>>>>>>> the article shared or of my French astronomer friend, > >>>>>>>>>>>>> are > >>>>>> relevant > >>>>>>>>>>>>> in as far as > >>>>>>>>>>> they > >>>>>>>>>>>>> help us reflect on just those questions. They really > >>>>>>>>>>>>> also > >>>> make > >>>>>> one > >>>>>>>>>>> wonder > >>>>>>>>>>>>> on the sense of the term "academic freedom", for the > >>>>>>>>>>>>> latter > >>>>> term > >>>>>>>>>>>>> cannot > >>>>>>>>>>>> be > >>>>>>>>>>>>> about doing whatever research you want to do > >>>>>>>>>>>>> independently > >>>> of > >>>>>> some > >>>>>>>>>>> market > >>>>>>>>>>>>> conditions and societal needs and economy. We may then > >>>>>>>>>>>>> pose > >>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>> questions, > >>>>>>>>>>>>> what type of "freedom" is the "freedom" current > >>>>>>>>>>>>> systems (of incentives, > >>>>>>>>>>>> of > >>>>>>>>>>>>> ISI lists) afford, and what type of system could allow > >>>>>>>>>>>>> for > >>>>>> another > >>>>>>>>>>>> meaning > >>>>>>>>>>>>> of the term "freedom"? > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Not to get too abstract, I guess that those > >>>>>>>>>>>>> reflections > >>>> may be > >>>>>>>>>>>>> best pondered along concrete cases, if people is > >>>>>>>>>>>>> willing to > >>>>> take > >>>>>>>>>>>>> on Helena's suggestion to share particular stories of > >>>>>>>>>>>>> all > >>>> that > >>>>>>>>>>>>> goes into getting > >>>>>>>>>>> into > >>>>>>>>>>>>> secured academic job positions, or else, of pursuing > >>>>>> (in)dependent > >>>>>>>>>>>> careers > >>>>>>>>>>>>> outside/at the borders of/across academia. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Alfredo > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> on behalf of Helena Worthen > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: 19 February 2018 19:19 > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> In the interests of widening the discussion: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I?ve described my work history before on this list ? > >>>>> basically, > >>>>>>>>>>>>> moving from teaching literature and writing (with > >>>> stopovers in > >>>>>>>>>>>>> landscape architecture and theater production) to > >>>>>>>>>>>>> concern > >>>>> about > >>>>>>>>>>>>> the working conditions of teachers, especially > >>>>>>>>>>>>> academics in > >>>>>> higher > >>>>>>>>>>>>> education, the > >>>>>>>>>>> 75% > >>>>>>>>>>>>> who are contingent/adjuncts. The concern is both for > >>>>>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>> people > >>>>>>>>>>> employed > >>>>>>>>>>>>> this way and for the integrity of the institutions > >>>>>>>>>>>>> that > >>>> employ > >>>>>>>>>>>>> them. I eventually engaged this concern by working > >>>>>>>>>>>>> with and > >>>>> for > >>>>>>>>>>>>> the labor > >>>>>>>>>>>> movement, > >>>>>>>>>>>>> ending up first working for the garment/apparel > >>>>>>>>>>>>> workers > >>>> union > >>>>> in > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Philadelphia and then at the Labor Educaiton Program > >>>>>>>>>>>>> at > >>>> the U > >>>>> of > >>>>>>>>>>>> Illinois, > >>>>>>>>>>>>> from which I retired in 2010. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> The new twist to this story is about the employment of > >>>>> academics > >>>>>>>>>>>>> on short-term contracts in Viet Nam, under conditions > >>>>>>>>>>>>> that > >>>>> seem > >>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>>>>>> be increasingly frequent in the ?developing? world, > >>>>>>>>>>>>> where > >>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>>> market for education is booming. University World News > >>>>>> http://www > >>>>>>> . > >>>>>>>>>>>>> universityworldnews.com/ tracks this phenomenon and > >>>> includes > >>>>>>>>>>> occasinal > >>>>>>>>>>>>> critical articles about the competition for rankings. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> The university > >>>>>>>>>>>> where > >>>>>>>>>>>>> my husband and I have been teaching on and off since > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 2015, > >>>> Ton > >>>>>> Duc > >>>>>>>>>>> Thang > >>>>>>>>>>>> in > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ho Chi Minh City, recruits professors from all over > >>>>>>>>>>>>> the > >>>> world > >>>>>> with > >>>>>>>>>>>>> a promise of $2,000 per month US ? but extending their > >>>>> contracts > >>>>>>>>>>>>> depends > >>>>>>>>>>> on > >>>>>>>>>>>>> producing articles published in journals on the ISI > >>>>>>>>>>>>> list; > >>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>>> nature of this list is worth taking a look at. The > >>>>>>>>>>>>> impact > >>>> of > >>>>>> this > >>>>>>>>>>>>> practice on the culture and student body is not all bad. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> My point here is to place the issue of the challenge > >>>>>>>>>>>>> of > >>>>> getting > >>>>>> a > >>>>>>>>>>>>> tenure-track job in a global context. This is not just > >>>>>>>>>>>>> an individual problem. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I?m willing to go further down this line of discussion. > >>>>> However, > >>>>>>>>>>>> academics > >>>>>>>>>>>>> are often reluctant to reveal and compare their > >>>>>>>>>>>>> working > >>>>>> conditions > >>>>>>>>>>>>> on > >>>>>>>>>>> an > >>>>>>>>>>>>> ?academic? discussion list. Maybe by putting up the > >>>>>>>>>>>>> issue > >>>> of > >>>>>> what > >>>>>>>>>>>> academic > >>>>>>>>>>>>> freedom requires, and how these requirements fare in > >>>>>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>> global > >>>>>>>>>>>>> market > >>>>>>>>>>>> for > >>>>>>>>>>>>> higher education, we can shed the embarassment of > >>>>>>>>>>>>> revealing information about our own experiences with > >>>>>>>>>>>>> getting the > >>>> brass > >>>>>> ring > >>>>>>>>>>>>> of a full-time, secure job. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Let?s see if anyone picks up on this. Maybe I?m being > >>>>>>>>>>>>> too > >>>>> vague. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Helena Worthen > >>>>>>>>>>>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com Berkeley, CA 94707 > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 510-828-2745 Blog US/ Viet Nam: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com > >>>>>>>>>>>>> skype: helena.worthen1 > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 19, 2018, at 9:19 AM, Huw Lloyd > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The article describes accumulating large amounts of > >>>> knowledge > >>>>>>>>>>>> pertaining > >>>>>>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> history, which (the author maintains) cannot be > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> turned to > >>>>> other > >>>>>>>>>>>>> endeavours. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> This, no doubt, is true for her. If, however, her > >>>> approach to > >>>>>>>>>>> studying > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> history had been systemic, then there would have been > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a > >>>>>> powerful > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> form > >>>>>>>>>>>> of > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> re-application and continuity in any work that was > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> turned > >>>> to. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps > >>>>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> same can be said for "phd/postdoc training". If it > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> cannot > >>>> be > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> reused > >>>>>>>>>>> or > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> isn't enabling, what, substantively, is it? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Huw > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 18 February 2018 at 18:32, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > >>>>>>>>>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Really inspiring words and work, Francine. I do see > >>>>> community > >>>>>>>>>>> colleges > >>>>>>>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many other educational settings apart from > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> universities > >>>> as > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really > >>>>>>>>>>>>> valuable > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and exciting opportunities; the PhD and following > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> postdoc > >>>>> etc > >>>>>>>>>>> training > >>>>>>>>>>>>> in > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> universities, however, tend to be very much targeted > >>>>> towards a > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> very > >>>>>>>>>>>>> narrow > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spectrum of positions, or at least that's been my > >>>>> experience. > >>>>>> I > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> am > >>>>>>>>>>>> very > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happy that this thread may widen that scope and make > >>>> visible > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other > >>>>>>>>>>>>> paths. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And as Mike suggested, it would be very interesting > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to > >>>> hear > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from > >>>>>>>>>>>> several > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others who have followed distinct trajectories apart > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from > >>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phd-postdoc-assist/assoc. prof-prof, and yet made a > >>>> career > >>>>> in > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> touch > >>>>>>>>>>>> with > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> most of what was developed in the junior (phd and > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few > >>>> later) > >>>>>>>> years. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alfredo > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> edu> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on behalf of Larry Smolucha > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: 18 February 2018 06:20 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Message from Francine Smolucha on a scholar's life > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with > >>>> or > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without > >>>>>>>>>>>>> academia > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alfredo, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are other jobs that pay well (sometimes with > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tenure > >>>>> and > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> early retirement benefits) - besides professorships > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at > >>>> four > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> year colleges > >>>>>>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> universities. Administrative and support staff > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> positions > >>>>> pay > >>>>>>>> well. > >>>>>>>>>>>> And > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't overlook community colleges, technical > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> colleges, > >>>> and > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> public > >>>>>>>>>>>> grade > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> schools and high schools. There is also the private > >>>> sector > >>>>> and > >>>>>>>>>>>>> government > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jobs. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As a 'low status' community college professor, I > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> managed > >>>> to > >>>>>>>>>>> translate > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Vygotsky's > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> overlooked writings on creativity (back in the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1980's) > >>>> and > >>>>>>>>>>> introduced > >>>>>>>>>>>>> his > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theory of creativity to academia. I got early > >>>> retirement at > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> age 53 > >>>>>>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> continue to write and publish. While my Ph.D from > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the University of > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Chicago > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gave me academic bona fides, it was the quality of > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the scholarly > >>>>>>>>>>> work > >>>>>>>>>>>>> that > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ultimately mattered. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was always inspired by the harsh circumstances of > >>>>> Vygotsky's > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> life > >>>>>>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how he still kept on writing. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [When I felt really sorry for myself, I would > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actually > >>>> say > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Well at > >>>>>>>>>>>>> least > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not coughing up blood"] > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So many of his works were not published in his > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lifetime, > >>>> he > >>>>>> did > >>>>>>>> not > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> collect a royalties check, and they say he was > >>>> depressed > >>>>> at > >>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>> end > >>>>>>>>>>>>> of > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his life. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I leave you with this quote from an ancient Sufi > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mystic - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You can't always get what you want but you can get > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what > >>>> you > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> . > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> edu> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on behalf of mike cole > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:07 PM > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yours is a quandary shared by your generation, Alfredo. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Being allowed to teach and conduct research in a > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quality institution > >>>>>>>>>>>> is > >>>>>>>>>>>>> a > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great privilege and an increasingly rarer > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possibility. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are several people on this list who have > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> organized > >>>>> their > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lives > >>>>>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>>>>>> be > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> independent scholars while staying connected to the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> core institutions of disciplinary > >>>>>>>>>>>>> training. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It might be nice to hear the variety out there. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It appears pretty certain that the situation is > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going to > >>>> get > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worse before/if it gets better. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What can the collective experience of xmca come up > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with > >>>> that > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would > >>>>>>>>>>> be > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> useful to the many > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of you caught in this meat grinder? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mike > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < > >>>>>>>>>>>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good luck then, Wagner! > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> edu > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit < > >>>> wagner.schmit@gmail.com> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: 18 February 2018 01:07 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This just hit me in the spot... > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wagner > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2018 9:48 PM, "Alfredo Jornet Gil" > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have not been able to contribute to this list as > >>>> much as > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd > >>>>>>>>>>> like > >>>>>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lately, among other things, because I need to find > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a > >>>> job, > >>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I > >>>>>>>>>>> need > >>>>>>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make sure that I have checked all those boxes that > >>>>> selection > >>>>>>>>>>>>> committees > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will check (enough first-authored publications? in > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good enough > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> journals? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> acquiring > >>>>>>>>>>>> funds? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than all others candidates? and more than > >>>>>>>>>>>> favoured-for-whatever-other- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these > >>>> weeks > >>>>> to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fill > >>>>>>>>>>> up > >>>>>>>>>>>> a > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, although I did not think that it was > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> particularly > >>>>> well > >>>>>>>>>>> written, > >>>>>>>>>>>>> it > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was both relieving and discouraging to read this > >>>> article > >>>>>> (see > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> link > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> below, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who > >>>> I > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think > >>>>>>>>>>> also > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> subscribes this list). The article makes visible > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the > >>>> pain > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> scholars > >>>>>>>>>>>> go > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> through when, after so many years of digging and > >>>> digging > >>>>> and > >>>>>>>>>>>> digging a > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leave it > >>>>> and > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find > >>>>>>>>>>>> some > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who > >>>> was > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> moving > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> through > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the world with his lovely family, short-term > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> project > >>>> after > >>>>>>>>>>>> short-term > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> project, getting better and better at what he > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worked on > >>>>>>>>>>> (apparently > >>>>>>>>>>>> he > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> among the few who had expertise in computer > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> modeling simulating > >>>>>>>>>>> some > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> astronomic events) , and finally having to step > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out > >>>>> academia > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> last > >>>>>>>>>>>> year > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find something else to do, for his family no > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> longer > >>>> could > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stand > >>>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me > >>>> soon. > >>>>>> And > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that > >>>>>>>>>>>> may > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the > >>>> story > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems to > >>>>>>>>>>> be > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quite > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> endemic to academia and may be interesting to some > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of > >>>> you: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Lo > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ses- > >>>>>> When/24 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2560 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alfredo > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > >>>>>>>>>>> Assistant Professor > >>>>>>>>>>> Department of Anthropology > >>>>>>>>>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University > >>>>>>>>>>> Provo, UT 84602 > >>>>>>>>>>> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu > >>>>>>>>>>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > >>>>>>>> Assistant Professor > >>>>>>>> Department of Anthropology > >>>>>>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > >>>>>>>> Brigham Young University > >>>>>>>> Provo, UT 84602 > >>>>>>>> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu > >>>>>>>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > >>>>> Assistant Professor > >>>>> Department of Anthropology > >>>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > >>>>> Brigham Young University > >>>>> Provo, UT 84602 > >>>>> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu > >>>>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > >>>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > >>> Assistant Professor > >>> Department of Anthropology > >>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > >>> Brigham Young University > >>> Provo, UT 84602 > >>> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu > >>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > >> Assistant Professor > >> Department of Anthropology > >> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > >> Brigham Young University > >> Provo, UT 84602 > >> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu > >> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > > Assistant Professor > > Department of Anthropology > > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > > Brigham Young University > > Provo, UT 84602 > > WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu > > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > > > >