[Xmca-l] Re: Dynamic Land

[Huw Lloyd]

I think you would need to be cautious about how imagination (both insight
and application) are fostered in an educational setting, rather than
slipping into use of a yet another more flashy interface. In that context,
one could argue for the primacy of experiencing the problem (if there was
some idea one wished to share), not necessarily gaining immediate feedback
-- though allowing for constructions that employ feedback is obviously a
good thing.

Immediacy of feedback is also highly contingent upon the intensive aspects
one wishes to expose, extensive aspects being more amenable. Although
re-working one's environment to enable that is commendable.

Best,
Huw

On Fri, 31 Aug 2018 at 14:46, Bill Kerr <billkerr@gmail.com> wrote:

> hi Sébastien,
> Thank you very much for this. I wasn't aware of Bret Victor but have
> looked at Seymour and Alan Kay in some depth previously. I've now read a
> few of BV articles and looked at a few videos and see that he continues and
> develops in that tradition. I'll be promoting his material with enthusiam.
>
> For those not familiar with this lineage perhaps Bret Victor's article
> about the hand would be a good place to start since that correlates well
> with the Engels essay on the hand which would be familiar to many here:
> http://worrydream.com/#!/ABriefRantOnTheFutureOfInteractionDesign
>
> From a digital world behind a screen we are emerging into tangible, haptic
> or physical computing with more varied human inputs and interactions
> becoming available. Bret Victor's examples of a more intuitive user
> interface for programmers are breathtaking. eg.  Inventing on Principle
> https://vimeo.com/36579366 (History aside: Seymour Papert co-authored
> logo programming / turtle geometry as a way to make powerful maths ideas
> more accessible to those who found them difficult).
>
> Following some technical wizardry at 35:40 of that video he begins to
> explain his motivation to his audience of software engineers:
> "Ideas are very precious to me and when I see ideas dying it hurts. I see
> a tragedy. It feels like a moral wrong, an injustice. If there is something
> I can about it  then it feels like a responsibility for me to do so. Not an
> opportunity but a responsibility"
>
> The computer is now emerging from being a relatively expensive, large
> closed box and transforming into a miniature capable of interacting with a
> variety of sensors to create the internet of things. BV goes beyond the
> predictable and usually mundane commercial hype (Apple watch etc.) and
> informs us how a more intuitive user interface (“One of the greatest user
> interface design minds in the world today.” — Alan Kay) can promote
> creativity. ie. he explains how creativity can be enhanced, not just uses
> it as a nebulous hype word. The principle he argues for is *immediate
> connection* between the creative process and its visualisation or
> appearance. He has the skill and knowledge to implement that principle, as
> part of a team, in the real world.
>
> I've been developing a curriculum around the BBC micro:bit and was looking
> for a theorist who continues to develop the Papert / Kay tradition. You
> have pointed him out to me, so thanks again!
>
> I'm also impressed by the Yin / Yang sidebar of his Bio:
> http://worrydream.com/#!/Bio
>
> Cheers
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 6:33 PM Sébastien Lerique <
> sebastien.lerique@normalesup.org> wrote:
>
>> Dear XMCA list,
>>
>> I have been following the activity here with much interest for a few
>> years now (although not always able to keep up with all the extensive
>> threads), originally discovering this list through the Tim Ingold articles
>> that are hosted on the Research paper archive (here
>> <http://lchc.ucsd.edu/MCA/Paper/ingold/ingold1.htm> and here
>> <http://lchc.ucsd.edu/MCA/Paper/ingold/ingold2.htm>, both of which
>> initiated somewhat of a revolution for me, so I would like to take the
>> opportunity to thank you for hosting them!). This is my first post.
>>
>> I recently stumbled upon dynamicland.org, and have been wondering since
>> then if any of you would have thoughts about such a place/system. If you
>> are not familiar with Bret Victor <http://worrydream.com/>'s work, it is
>> very much inspired by Seymour Papert's Mindstorms
>> <https://www.worldcat.org/title/mindstorms-children-computers-and-powerful-ideas/oclc/263655916?referer=br&ht=edition>:
>> it revolves around the idea that computers and computing in general will
>> probably dramatically change the way we learn and think, from birth into
>> adulthood (as the printing press did), and that there is now an opportunity
>> to make that a move towards more humane things, instead of developing
>> devices that physically and mentally isolate us from one another by having
>> us stare at screens most of the day.
>>
>> That idea is not new -- the interesting part is that it is being
>> concretely explored in new implementations: real places such as Dynamic
>> Land are currently emerging based on these ideas, also rehashing other
>> creative developments that occurred around the birth of the personal
>> computer in the late seventies but fell into oblivion in tech communities
>> (see The Future of Programming
>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pTEmbeENF4>).
>>
>> You can find a 1 hour presentation of what led to Dynamic Land here: The
>> Humane Representation of Thought <https://vimeo.com/115154289>. They
>> also published a zine
>> <https://github.com/stevekrouse/futureofcoding.org/blob/master/media/dynamicland.pdf>
>> with more concrete details about the place.
>>
>> After inserting so many links I feel I should point out that I am not
>> affiliated in any way or even in contact with the Dynamic Land people! They
>> simply figured out a way of concretely exploring a theme that became
>> central to me after reading Ingold, namely the materiality of thought,
>> meaning and interaction. So I would be very interested in your thoughts
>> about all this!
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Sébastien -- slvh.fr
>>
>
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