[Xmca-l] Re: digital immersion mongrel Vygotsky

Wed Apr 11 06:34:05 PDT 2018

Great tips for new, relevant sources
for us to
pu
rsue
 in this domain. Thanks Bill.
mike 

On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 5:57 PM Bill Kerr <billkerr@gmail.com> wrote:

> hi Mike Cole,
>
> I've just read chs. 7 and 11 of LCHC. I agree that issues discussed there
> are still relevant, initially
> - fun / academic balance - the overwhelming impulse for kids to play games
> (and how to evaluate those games) always raises that issue sharply
> (other balances need to be addressed too - the issue of the dangers
> associated with computer communications and what to do about that - porn,
> cyberbullying etc.)
>
> - the pen pal activity is one that I have done in the past but forgot about
> - I think it has potential for remote Australians esp given that many urban
> Private schools go out of their way to cultivate an indigenous connection
> these days
>
> I'll try to work on a more comprehensive draft over the next day or so.
>
> Yes, I'm familiar with Seymour's work and Scratch. Also Brian Harvey wrote
> an important critique of Mitch Resnick's logo decentralisation thesis
> (Logo: Capitalist Tool?)
> https://people.eecs.berkeley.edu/~bh/capitalist.html. I see all of Brian's
> work as important
> https://people.eecs.berkeley.edu/~bh/?_ga=2.114682821.
> 374017054.1523407499-1495565323.1520672862
> wrt socially relevant computing
>
> thanks for the valuable link
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 10:38 AM, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:
>
> > Hi Bill -- I am mindful that i have some responses owed in the
> conversation
> > about Vygotsky's chapter, and am struggling to find time there is so much
> > to discuss).
> >
> > Michael Roth is a frequent contributor to xmca. And the Spinoza-Vygotsky
> > relationship is hoth these days. Seems likely has has an article that
> would
> > give people quick
> > access.  And,  the literature on the implementations of the one-lap top
> > experiment is easily accessible with a google search. The Appiah looks
> > really interesting.... So there is plentyh of overlap of interest there.
> >
> > I come from an earlier generation where there was a different mashup of
> > Vygotsky and cultural context. The big deal back then was "The New
> > Mathematics." And later, the potential of using a successful
> > non-school-based, indigenous literacy as a tool of self development (the
> > potential was there in principle, but a total non-starter for many of the
> > reasons that led to the Liberian civil war).
> >
> > After that, it was the potential of 64k memory pc's and store-and-forward
> > email. A quicky background there can be found by skimming at
> > lchcautobio.ucsd.edu  , the materials in what is called chapters 1, 7,
> and
> > 10/11. We hit sweet spots, where really
> > great intellectual activity was created ... on a small scale.
> >
> > Come to think of it, the publication of our ragamuffin volume of
> Vygotsky's
> > writings
> > hit another.
> >
> > If there is further discussion, we can assume knowledge of Seymor's work
> > and a second hand knowledge of programs like Scratch. I have not followed
> > the curricular programs that you mention, but can figure out what they
> are
> > about from your interchange with Michael. Others on the list will know
> > more.
> >
> > I am not a weathered skeptic about technological solutions to social
> > problems. But the question of whether any proposed new form of activity
> can
> > act as a catapult  that will
> > render Australian ( of any other marginalized group) into a situation of
> > full equality is always an interesting one.
> >
> > To be continued. Hopefully others can provide more up to date feedback
> that
> > will be of use to you.
> >
> > mike
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > I'm interested in your evaluation of your experience of "having failed"
> > in
> > > this area if by that you mean introducing digital tech to the
> > > disadvantaged. I was involved in the One Laptop per Child project
> (mainly
> > > evaluating the software not intensive field tests) and have thought
> about
> > > why it failed or appeared to fail. Superficially and briefly, the
> > hardware
> > > was wonderful, the software ok sort of. But there was little or no
> > > contextual interaction with the intended recipients in the Third world
> > > (cultural fail) and the educational philosophy was Seymour Papert's
> > > constructionism (contextual epistemological fail even though I believe
> it
> > > can work with highly skilled teachers).
> > >
> > > "Runaway object" is a nice phrase about the sweet spot. But I'm not
> sure
> > > about how important it is conceptually, ie. the underlying reasons why
> it
> > > runs away?
> > >
> > > The references I have provided include dense books by
> > > Wolff Michael Roth (Mathematics of Mathematics): Still reading but very
> > > impressed. Up until now I've had an eclectic / pragmatic approach to
> > > learning theory - take a bit from Papert's constructionism, a bit from
> > > Willingham's cognitivism, a bit from Dennett's behaviourism. Michael
> > > attempts to put an end to all that and I'm partly persuaded but not yet
> > > fully. Can't be summarised briefly so I think will require a separate
> > > thread if and when I get my act together.
> > >
> > >  and Martin Nakata: first Torres Strait Islander to obtain a PhD (now
> at
> > > James Cook Uni Townsville) through an incredible analysis developing a
> > > profound theory of the Cultural Interface. Once again hard to summarise
> > > briefly. But since the Cultural Interface becomes a tower of many
> Babels
> > > then for me it highlights again the importance of paying a lot of
> > attention
> > > to  context.
> > >
> > > Kwame Appiah is an easier read and it was his quote from Salman Rushdie
> > > that I extracted the concept of mongrel cultures
> > >
> > > I can provide an elaboration of my own fairly soon of the overall
> > approach
> > > (digital immersion mongrel Vygotsky) but not sure how to summarise the
> > > above authors briefly.
> > >
> > > Reality check: Schools / education dominated by mechanical
> > epistemologies,
> > > bland cultures and technocentric thinking in the IT department creating
> > > overall too many hurdles to jump. Nevertheless, I am aware of some
> > > promising exemplars but most / all of them don't encompass the sweet
> spot
> > > implied by my 3 teething rings. So does my analysis have the potential
> to
> > > do it better or does on the ground partly inspired pragmatism prevail?
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 11:05 AM, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Cool note, Bill.
> > > > Having failed several times in this general arena, I am always
> > interested
> > > > in finding the sweet spot. In my experience, the process of change
> > means
> > > > that "the spot" itself is, to borrow Yrjo's phrase, a "runaway
> object."
> > > >
> > > > Further engagement now entails that people do some common reading
> > > > and that can be a perilous undertaking on xmca! Often the
> distribution
> > > > of the key texts help a lot, or links.
> > > >
> > > > Saturday evening over here. Headed out for the evening, but look
> > forward
> > > > to the followups.
> > > >
> > > > Good Sunday morning to you.
> > > >
> > > > mike
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 5:47 PM, Bill Kerr <billkerr@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > off topic Andy - but what I said was Noel's DI approach in the
> > > Djarragun
> > > > > school context not necessarily DI as such. My 4000 word essay on
> that
> > > is
> > > > > Life After Noel here
> > > > > https://sites.google.com/site/livingcontradictions/life-after-noel
> > As
> > > an
> > > > > evidence based approach and plenty of anecdotes I have heard  in
> > > > > Australia's deep north it can still be argued that "DI works" not
> as
> > a
> > > > life
> > > > > long approach but in the context of a catch up approach for those
> who
> > > > have
> > > > > missed out on early years basic literacy and numeracy. If you want
> to
> > > > > discuss my "Life after Noel' essay or DI in general then please
> start
> > > > > another thread.
> > > > >
> > > > > This thread is about "digital immersion mongrel Vygotsky" not DI or
> > > Noel.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 10:32 AM, Andy Blunden <andyb@marxists.org>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > So you have given Direct Instruction a fail, Bill. For
> > > > > > people in the field that is probably not a surprise, but it
> > > > > > is very significant for the general public here in Oz. Could
> > > > > > you summarise what brought you to the conclusion?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Andy
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > Andy Blunden
> > > > > > ttp://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
> > > > > > On 8/04/2018 10:02 AM, Bill Kerr wrote:
> > > > > > > I'll put this up for discussion. It has been a twisted road for
> > me
> > > to
> > > > > get
> > > > > > > to this point. I had a fail with the Noel Pearson's Direct
> > > > Instruction
> > > > > > > approach near Cairns and have now moved to Alice Springs as a
> > good
> > > > > > location
> > > > > > > for further action research into Australian indigenous issues.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > DIGITAL IMMERSION MONGREL VYGOTSKY
> > > > > > > - a contextual pathway to enable modern indigenous technology
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The origin of this was an exploration of an effective way
> > > > > (pragmatically)
> > > > > > > to bring digital technology to indigenous people. This turned
> > into
> > > a
> > > > > > hands
> > > > > > > on exploration of disparate fields which for convenience can be
> > > > > organised
> > > > > > > under three sub-headings which can in turn be melded together:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > *Epistemology*: One interpretation of Vygotsky argues that all
> > > > > knowledge
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > socially constructed and that ethnomethodology, paying detailed
> > > > > attention
> > > > > > > in the now, is the best or only way of detecting and evaluating
> > > what
> > > > is
> > > > > > > going on (Wolff-Michael Roth). This world view is critical of
> > other
> > > > > > > learning theories be they behaviourist, cognitivist or
> > > > constructivist.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > *Culture*: Martin Nakata’s (cultural interface) and Kwame
> > Appiah’s
> > > > > > > (cosmopolitan) approach is that indigenous (and other) culture
> is
> > > > > mongrel
> > > > > > > (no longer traditional), consisting of disparate, complex
> threads
> > > > > created
> > > > > > > by the intermingling of the traditional with the colonial. It
> > > follows
> > > > > > from
> > > > > > > this that effective communication between different cultures
> must
> > > be
> > > > > > > contextual based on paying detailed attention to the now.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > *Technology*: Taking a broad view there are many human
> > technologies
> > > > > > > originating from the hand and the word. Digital technology
> > (moving
> > > > > bits)
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > now replacing print as the dominant social medium. The only
> > > effective
> > > > > way
> > > > > > > to master digital technology is through full immersion in the
> > > medium.
> > > > > > Some
> > > > > > > groups working with the Disadvantaged in the Third World have
> > > > > understood
> > > > > > > this, eg. Learning Equality, and use affordable hardware
> > (Raspberry
> > > > Pi
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > low-cost Android tablets), software (FOSS) and infrastructure
> > > > > (sneakernet
> > > > > > > where internet connectivity is limited).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Combining these approached leads to “Digital Immersion Mongrel
> > > > > Vygotsky”.
> > > > > > > The goal is to combine these three approaches to find the
> > > contextual
> > > > > > sweet
> > > > > > > spot in the middle of the teething rings.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > *Reference*:
> > > > > > > Appiah, Kwame Anthony. Cosmopolitanism: Ethics in a World of
> > > > Strangers
> > > > > > > (2007)
> > > > > > > Learning Equality https://learningequality.org/
> > > > > > > Nakata, Martin. Disciplining the Savages, Savaging the
> > Disciplines
> > > > > (2007)
> > > > > > > Roth, Wolff-Michael. The Mathematics of Mathematics: Thinking
> > with
> > > > the
> > > > > > > Late, Spinozist Vygotsky (2017)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>