From lpscholar2@gmail.com Thu Feb 2 09:15:22 2017 From: lpscholar2@gmail.com (lpscholar2@gmail.com) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 09:15:22 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Playworlds, Performance, Perezhivanie, Apophasis Message-ID: <5893695b.c32f630a.3d640.41ee@mx.google.com> Beth and Monica explore the phenomena occurring in playworlds generating perezhivanie. Playworlds are performance worlds and these worlds may be exploring the relation of ?unity? and ?difference?. Another term that may have relevance when Beth and Monica refer to negating the negation is the operation of ?apophasis?. William Frank (On What Cannot Be Said) describes the apophatic?: *In apophasis, which empties language of all positive content, absolute difference cannot be distinguished from absolute unity, even though the respective discourses of difference and unity nominally stand at the antipodes. BOTH configurations, unity and difference, are exposed as relatively arbitrary and, in the end, equally inadequate schemas for articulating what cannot be said. (Franke) Claire Chambers in her book (Performance Studies and Negative Epistemology) comments on the above Franke citation?: *If unity and difference cannot be distinguished from one another (we cannot KNOW what makes them distinct), then it is impossible to determine what either ?is? ? meaning that knowing and being, epistemology and ontology, are also impossible to distinguish from one another.(Claire Chambers Chapter 1) I am not sure how far to go with this theme of?: Negating the negation? I hear this theme in playworlds. If this seems relevant, i can post the first chapter of Claire Chambers book. I will just mention that Vygotsky?s Judaic childhood and adolescence would have encountered this apophatic ?tradition?. Enough for one probe or possible pivot? Sent from my Windows 10 phone From ewall@umich.edu Thu Feb 2 11:20:27 2017 From: ewall@umich.edu (Edward Wall) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 13:20:27 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Perezhivanie and Organic In-Reply-To: <5893695b.c32f630a.3d640.41ee@mx.google.com> References: <5893695b.c32f630a.3d640.41ee@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Stanislavisk seems to consider what is termed ?organic? in his taking up of perezhivanie. Vygotsky also uses the term ?organic,? although as near as I can tell, without regard to perezhivanie. However, what seems to be being called ?organic? is very different (or so it seems) in these two cases. Is the Rusiian different? Ed Wall > On Feb 2, 2017, at 11:15 AM, lpscholar2@gmail.com wrote: > > Beth and Monica explore the phenomena occurring in playworlds generating perezhivanie. > > Playworlds are performance worlds and these worlds may be exploring the relation of ?unity? and ?difference?. > > Another term that may have relevance when Beth and Monica refer to negating the negation is the operation of ?apophasis?. > William Frank (On What Cannot Be Said) describes the apophatic : > > *In apophasis, which empties language of all positive content, absolute difference cannot be distinguished from absolute unity, even though the respective discourses of difference and unity nominally stand at the antipodes. BOTH configurations, unity and difference, are exposed as relatively arbitrary and, in the end, equally inadequate schemas for articulating what cannot be said. (Franke) > > Claire Chambers in her book (Performance Studies and Negative Epistemology) comments on the above Franke citation : > > *If unity and difference cannot be distinguished from one another (we cannot KNOW what makes them distinct), then it is impossible to determine what either ?is? ? meaning that knowing and being, epistemology and ontology, are also impossible to distinguish from one another.(Claire Chambers Chapter 1) > > I am not sure how far to go with this theme of : Negating the negation? > I hear this theme in playworlds. > > If this seems relevant, i can post the first chapter of Claire Chambers book. I will just mention that Vygotsky?s Judaic childhood and adolescence would have encountered this apophatic ?tradition?. > Enough for one probe or possible pivot? > > > > Sent from my Windows 10 phone > From dkellogg60@gmail.com Thu Feb 2 13:01:20 2017 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 06:01:20 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Perezhivanie and Organic In-Reply-To: References: <5893695b.c32f630a.3d640.41ee@mx.google.com> Message-ID: The Russian word that Vygotsky uses for "organic" is the same as the word we use, and I assume that the same thing is true of the word that Stanislavsky used. It is "organic" transliterated into Cyrillic, rather than translated into Russian. What really makes this problem new-thread-worthy is that the meaning of the word "organic" at the end of the nineteenth century is not the same as the word meaning that we use in several important ways. Take, for example, the crudest possible way: semantic prosody, or the "good vibes" of some words (e.g. "organic food") vs. the "bad vibes" of others (e.g. "artificial flavor"). The nineteenth century began with a romantic movement towards nature and towards holism ("Gestaltism"), against dogmatic rationalism and atomism. So "organicism" had a semantic prosody that involved not only naturalism (which it still does) but also a form of proto-structuralism. Organic structure involved a complex whole with parts that are interdependent like organs and not independent like ball bearings. Today, this semantic prosody falls on deaf ears. If anything, it's the other way around: we know all about cells, and we know that they are independant and dispensible in large numbers (you slough off millions every day). But mechanical parts are precisely engineered to fit each other, and for the want of one, the whole machine comes to a grinding halt. Nevertheless, we can still see this older meaning of organicism in Toennies' distinction between Gemeinschaft (community, mechanical solidarity) and Gesellschaft (society,organic solidarity) and also in the work of Bernsetin (workers have a mechanical solidarity based on likeness while middle class people have organic solidarity based on mutual instrumentality). (Of course, there's the same problem. Even working class families have an organic solidarity, while it is sometimes hard to believe that white collar office workers sitting at computers in cubicles are anything bt mechanical....) David Kellogg Macquarie University On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 4:20 AM, Edward Wall wrote: > Stanislavisk seems to consider what is termed ?organic? in his taking up > of perezhivanie. Vygotsky also uses the term ?organic,? although as near as > I can tell, without regard to perezhivanie. However, what seems to be being > called ?organic? is very different (or so it seems) in these two cases. Is > the Rusiian different? > > Ed Wall > > > On Feb 2, 2017, at 11:15 AM, lpscholar2@gmail.com wrote: > > > > Beth and Monica explore the phenomena occurring in playworlds generating > perezhivanie. > > > > Playworlds are performance worlds and these worlds may be exploring the > relation of ?unity? and ?difference?. > > > > Another term that may have relevance when Beth and Monica refer to > negating the negation is the operation of ?apophasis?. > > William Frank (On What Cannot Be Said) describes the apophatic : > > > > *In apophasis, which empties language of all positive content, absolute > difference cannot be distinguished from absolute unity, even though the > respective discourses of difference and unity nominally stand at the > antipodes. BOTH configurations, unity and difference, are exposed as > relatively arbitrary and, in the end, equally inadequate schemas for > articulating what cannot be said. (Franke) > > > > Claire Chambers in her book (Performance Studies and Negative > Epistemology) comments on the above Franke citation : > > > > *If unity and difference cannot be distinguished from one another (we > cannot KNOW what makes them distinct), then it is impossible to determine > what either ?is? ? meaning that knowing and being, epistemology and > ontology, are also impossible to distinguish from one another.(Claire > Chambers Chapter 1) > > > > I am not sure how far to go with this theme of : Negating the negation? > > I hear this theme in playworlds. > > > > If this seems relevant, i can post the first chapter of Claire Chambers > book. I will just mention that Vygotsky?s Judaic childhood and adolescence > would have encountered this apophatic ?tradition?. > > Enough for one probe or possible pivot? > > > > > > > > Sent from my Windows 10 phone > > > > > From rbeach@umn.edu Thu Feb 2 15:28:01 2017 From: rbeach@umn.edu (Richard Beach) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 15:28:01 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Bannon's actions as "shock event" In-Reply-To: <71E849D1-5353-4DDA-BA83-F1DF29820355@gmail.com> References: <003601d2776d$2cc0a910$8641fb30$@att.net> <003a01d27774$a0aeaf00$e20c0d00$@att.net> <588a1d8b.c280630a.7710d.bdd6@mx.google.com> <002401d277f4$d8da5ac0$8a8f1040$@att.net> <588a317a.1121620a.8e1ba.d866@mx.google.com> <71E849D1-5353-4DDA-BA83-F1DF29820355@gmail.com> Message-ID: <88AB2869-5898-4F23-BB2E-6CCD490C96F7@umn.edu> Here?s an interesting analysis of Bannon?s actions on banning immigrants that?s related to Bakhtin?s notion of ?eventness? and Roth?s (2014) analysis of ?events-in-the-making? associated with the experience of unfolding events with unpredictable consequences. We still don?t know what the fallout will be from attempts to implement this ban. From Heather Richardson, professor of History at Boston College: "I don't like to talk about politics on Facebook-- political history is my job, after all, and you are my friends-- but there is an important non-partisan point to make today. What Bannon is doing, most dramatically with last night's ban on immigration from seven predominantly Muslim countries-- is creating what is known as a "shock event." Such an event is unexpected and confusing and throws a society into chaos. People scramble to react to the event, usually along some fault line that those responsible for the event can widen by claiming that they alone know how to restore order. When opponents speak out, the authors of the shock event call them enemies. As society reels and tempers run high, those responsible for the shock event perform a sleight of hand to achieve their real goal, a goal they know to be hugely unpopular, but from which everyone has been distracted as they fight over the initial event. There is no longer concerted opposition to the real goal; opposition divides along the partisan lines established by the shock event. Last night's Executive Order has all the hallmarks of a shock event. It was not reviewed by any governmental agencies or lawyers before it was released, and counterterrorism experts insist they did not ask for it. People charged with enforcing it got no instructions about how to do so. Courts immediately have declared parts of it unconstitutional, but border police in some airports are refusing to stop enforcing it. Predictably, chaos has followed and tempers are hot. My point today is this: unless you are the person setting it up, it is in no one's interest to play the shock event game. It is designed explicitly to divide people who might otherwise come together so they cannot stand against something its authors think they won't like. I don't know what Bannon is up to-- although I have some guesses-- but because I know Bannon's ideas well, I am positive that there is not a single person whom I consider a friend on either side of the aisle-- and my friends range pretty widely-- who will benefit from whatever it is. If the shock event strategy works, though, many of you will blame each other, rather than Bannon, for the fallout. And the country will have been tricked into accepting their real goal. But because shock events destabilize a society, they can also be used positively. We do not have to respond along old fault lines. We could just as easily reorganize into a different pattern that threatens the people who sparked the event. A successful shock event depends on speed and chaos because it requires knee-jerk reactions so that people divide along established lines. This, for example, is how Confederate leaders railroaded the initial southern states out of the Union. If people realize they are being played, though, they can reach across old lines and reorganize to challenge the leaders who are pulling the strings. This was Lincoln's strategy when he joined together Whigs, Democrats, Free-Soilers, anti-Nebraska voters, and nativists into the new Republican Party to stand against the Slave Power. Five years before, such a coalition would have been unimaginable. Members of those groups agreed on very little other than that they wanted all Americans to have equal economic opportunity. Once they began to work together to promote a fair economic system, though, they found much common ground. They ended up rededicating the nation to a "government of the people, by the people, and for the people." Confederate leaders and Lincoln both knew about the political potential of a shock event. As we are in the midst of one, it seems worth noting that Lincoln seemed to have the better idea about how to use it." Richard Beach, Professor Emeritus of English Education, University of Minnesota rbeach@umn.edu Websites: Digital writing , Media?literacy , Teaching literature , Identity-focused ELA Teaching , Common Core?State Standards , Apps for literacy?learning , Teaching about climate change > On Jan 26, 2017, at 10:16 AM, Helena Worthen wrote: > > On the subject of dividing, here is an ugly snapshot of the wedge getting driven in ? the building trades unions finding common ground with Trump as a ?developer.? The other deeply regressive unions are the prison guards and police. > > http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2017/01/building-trades-allow-themselves-to-be-played-like-fools > > I attend monthly discussion groups in the Bay Area organized around readings from the magazine Jacobin. I like these because the other participants are mostly 20s and early 30s, techies or grad students. Very smart, very alert, very well-read and articulate. They are stamped, however, with evidence of never having studied history. (Philosophy, yes ? which is interesting.) To many of them, the building trades and police unions are typical of the political position of labor unions. > > So they see LIUNA leaders meeting with Trump and smear the whole labor movement with it. > > H > > Helena Worthen > helenaworthen@gmail.com > Berkeley, CA 94707 > Blog about US and Viet Nam: helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > > >> On Jan 26, 2017, at 9:26 AM, wrote: >> >> Yes, >> Today, the strategy of dividing, leaving us in disarray, is how i experience the deluge of draconian executive ?orders? that leaves me spinning. >> Leaves me questioning where to start. >> >> Exposing the disarray on the other side in concrete ways (Koch vs Mercer) is a valuable addition to our ways of responding. >> >> >> Sent from my Windows 10 phone >> >> From: Peg Griffin >> Sent: January 26, 2017 8:57 AM >> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred to >> >> At this point, Larry, I'm content to rise to as much concrete as I can get near, until at least the late spring, to get at ideas and contradictions, to keep moving and supporting so I'm in enough places to and bits of the movement to find the productive places for me. >> A mini-mission of mine right now is to get people to recognize the divide among the big money folks in the US -- the Mercer father daughter beat the Koch brothers within the Republican moneyed. >> The other side works hard to divide us and take advantage of the disarray, so why not pay attention when they are dividing themselves! >> No use being a day late and a dollar short about who's who! >> Maybe it's just that my great uncle was in vaudeville and showed us three yammering nieces a super card game called "52 pick-up." It's not too good too often for too long but everyone once in a while it's not a bad game. >> PG >> -----Original Message----- >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of lpscholar2@gmail.com >> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 11:02 AM >> To: Peg Griffin; 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred to >> >> Peg, Mike, >> Reading these two articles on BigData and remembering how funding will be given to academic research that slots into being verified (or negated) through BigData is profoundly disturbing and leaves me with a sense of inertia at the scope of the alienation involved in this manipulation. >> >> Using Simmel?s back and forth notion of the relation of (distance and intimacy) and finding the proper ratio depending on the events occuring then the proper relation between distance and intimacy will be shifting in scope in each historical era. >> Will our response to the vast distance incarnated through BIgData require intimate responses as counterpoint?? >> >> If this is LIKE the 1930?s, do we have any answers from the past that give glimmers of a way forward that can be responsive at scale to the distancing of BigData? >> >> Sent from my Windows 10 phone >> >> From: Peg Griffin >> Sent: January 25, 2017 5:39 PM >> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred to >> >> And here's a Guardian story https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/23/donald-trump-cambridge-analytica-steve-bannon for those interested in the post-election ties among the Mercers (father and daughter), Bannon, Conway, and Cambridge Analytica. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Peg Griffin >> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2017 7:43 PM >> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred to >> >> Hee hee hee, Mike Cole, you rogue! This is the official Cambridge Analytica site https://cambridgeanalytica.org/ But Mike direct you to a meatier sit about it! >> Peg >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole >> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2017 1:41 PM >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >> Subject: [Xmca-l] The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred to >> >> https://antidotezine.com/2017/01/22/trump-knows-you/ >> >> >> >> >> >> > > From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Thu Feb 2 19:44:41 2017 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 03:44:41 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Fw: ISLS Calls for Recision of Travel Restrictions and Immigration Ban In-Reply-To: <1045689.3194145.f6b0bcbc1460491f8281ac2e90a2399b@tinyletter.com> References: <1045689.3194145.f6b0bcbc1460491f8281ac2e90a2399b@tinyletter.com> Message-ID: <1486093481567.48033@iped.uio.no> ________________________________ From: International Society of the Learning Sciences Sent: 03 February 2017 04:10:54 To: Alfredo Jornet Gil Subject: ISLS Calls for Recision of Travel Restrictions and Immigration Ban ISLS Calls for Recision of Travel Restrictions and Immigration Ban The International Society of the Learning Sciences (ISLS) is a community of scholars committed to using our research to promote diverse, just, and equitable learning opportunities throughout the world. Our community relies upon the free and open exchange of ideas from all of our international members and scholars from around the world, and depends upon free and open mobility for researchers, students, and other members of our scholarly community. The US President's Executive Order banning entry into the US for all nationals of Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, and Yemen creates a serious impediment to the free and open exchange of people and ideas necessary to support a vibrant, diverse intellectual community capable of addressing educational issues in ways consistent with the mission of the Society. This executive order affects students and scholars in our community and affiliated colleagues living and working in the US and abroad, in ways that disrupt their scholarship and their lives. We oppose this executive order and urge the President to rescind it immediately. ISLS Announcements by International Society of the Learning Sciences 252 Bloor Street West Toronto, ON M5S1V6 Canada Sent to a.g.jornet@iped.uio.no - Unsubscribe Delivered by [TinyLetter] From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Thu Feb 2 22:35:36 2017 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 06:35:36 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fw: ISLS Calls for Recision of Travel Restrictions and Immigration Ban In-Reply-To: <1486093481567.48033@iped.uio.no> References: <1045689.3194145.f6b0bcbc1460491f8281ac2e90a2399b@tinyletter.com>, <1486093481567.48033@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: <1486103735312.34967@iped.uio.no> The ISLS has written a call, but shall we scholars who live outside the US but not in the banned countries continue travelling to the US despite our colleagues not being able to join? The Guardian poses that question. https://www.theguardian.com/higher-education-network/2017/jan/30/should-academics-boycott-donald-trumps-america A ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Alfredo Jornet Gil Sent: 03 February 2017 04:44 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Fw: ISLS Calls for Recision of Travel Restrictions and Immigration Ban ________________________________ From: International Society of the Learning Sciences Sent: 03 February 2017 04:10:54 To: Alfredo Jornet Gil Subject: ISLS Calls for Recision of Travel Restrictions and Immigration Ban ISLS Calls for Recision of Travel Restrictions and Immigration Ban The International Society of the Learning Sciences (ISLS) is a community of scholars committed to using our research to promote diverse, just, and equitable learning opportunities throughout the world. Our community relies upon the free and open exchange of ideas from all of our international members and scholars from around the world, and depends upon free and open mobility for researchers, students, and other members of our scholarly community. The US President's Executive Order banning entry into the US for all nationals of Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, and Yemen creates a serious impediment to the free and open exchange of people and ideas necessary to support a vibrant, diverse intellectual community capable of addressing educational issues in ways consistent with the mission of the Society. This executive order affects students and scholars in our community and affiliated colleagues living and working in the US and abroad, in ways that disrupt their scholarship and their lives. We oppose this executive order and urge the President to rescind it immediately. ISLS Announcements by International Society of the Learning Sciences 252 Bloor Street West Toronto, ON M5S1V6 Canada Sent to a.g.jornet@iped.uio.no - Unsubscribe Delivered by [TinyLetter] From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Fri Feb 3 22:20:11 2017 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 06:20:11 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Playworlds, Performance, Perezhivanie, Apophasis ... and TRUMP'S speech! In-Reply-To: <5893695b.c32f630a.3d640.41ee@mx.google.com> References: <5893695b.c32f630a.3d640.41ee@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <1486189210098.72503@iped.uio.no> Larry, I am familiar with the term apophantic (the auto-spelling keeps correcting the term to "hipophatic" which is the term you use) as it appears in Heidegger. Not sure now about the connection with Vygotsky that you are after; it seems quite of a complex thread to weave across, at least in the xmca format. But!, since I wanted to make sure we were using the same term, I did google it and, guess what I found? An example of apophasis as used by TRUMP!: In 2015, Trump said of fellow Republican presidential candidate and former Hewlett-Packard CEO Carly Fiorina, "I promised I would not say that she ran Hewlett-Packard into the ground, that she laid off tens of thousands of people and she got viciously fired. I said I will not say it, so I will not say it."In 2016, he tweeted of journalist Megyn Kelly, ?I refuse to call [her] a bimbo, because that would not be politically correct." Here is the link to the full article from the Huffington post: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-rhetorical-device_us_56c358cbe4b0c3c55052b32b Alfredo ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of lpscholar2@gmail.com Sent: 02 February 2017 18:15 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Playworlds, Performance, Perezhivanie, Apophasis Beth and Monica explore the phenomena occurring in playworlds generating perezhivanie. Playworlds are performance worlds and these worlds may be exploring the relation of ?unity? and ?difference?. Another term that may have relevance when Beth and Monica refer to negating the negation is the operation of ?apophasis?. William Frank (On What Cannot Be Said) describes the apophatic : *In apophasis, which empties language of all positive content, absolute difference cannot be distinguished from absolute unity, even though the respective discourses of difference and unity nominally stand at the antipodes. BOTH configurations, unity and difference, are exposed as relatively arbitrary and, in the end, equally inadequate schemas for articulating what cannot be said. (Franke) Claire Chambers in her book (Performance Studies and Negative Epistemology) comments on the above Franke citation : *If unity and difference cannot be distinguished from one another (we cannot KNOW what makes them distinct), then it is impossible to determine what either ?is? ? meaning that knowing and being, epistemology and ontology, are also impossible to distinguish from one another.(Claire Chambers Chapter 1) I am not sure how far to go with this theme of : Negating the negation? I hear this theme in playworlds. If this seems relevant, i can post the first chapter of Claire Chambers book. I will just mention that Vygotsky?s Judaic childhood and adolescence would have encountered this apophatic ?tradition?. Enough for one probe or possible pivot? Sent from my Windows 10 phone From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Fri Feb 3 22:33:47 2017 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 06:33:47 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Bannon's actions as "shock event" In-Reply-To: <88AB2869-5898-4F23-BB2E-6CCD490C96F7@umn.edu> References: <003601d2776d$2cc0a910$8641fb30$@att.net> <003a01d27774$a0aeaf00$e20c0d00$@att.net> <588a1d8b.c280630a.7710d.bdd6@mx.google.com> <002401d277f4$d8da5ac0$8a8f1040$@att.net> <588a317a.1121620a.8e1ba.d866@mx.google.com> <71E849D1-5353-4DDA-BA83-F1DF29820355@gmail.com>, <88AB2869-5898-4F23-BB2E-6CCD490C96F7@umn.edu> Message-ID: <1486190026596.25381@iped.uio.no> Thanks for sharing Richard, I had seen Richardson's analysis online. In fact the amount of analyses in the media that this crisis is generating is overwhelming, but also very encouraging and gives hopes towards Richardson's notes on shock events' possibility not only for separating but for actually offering opportunities to re-organize and unite priorly separated forces. I wonder, if Lincoln managed without the web and the i-phone, will it happen today? Alfredo ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Richard Beach Sent: 03 February 2017 00:28 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Bannon's actions as "shock event" Here?s an interesting analysis of Bannon?s actions on banning immigrants that?s related to Bakhtin?s notion of ?eventness? and Roth?s (2014) analysis of ?events-in-the-making? associated with the experience of unfolding events with unpredictable consequences. We still don?t know what the fallout will be from attempts to implement this ban. >From Heather Richardson, professor of History at Boston College: "I don't like to talk about politics on Facebook-- political history is my job, after all, and you are my friends-- but there is an important non-partisan point to make today. What Bannon is doing, most dramatically with last night's ban on immigration from seven predominantly Muslim countries-- is creating what is known as a "shock event." Such an event is unexpected and confusing and throws a society into chaos. People scramble to react to the event, usually along some fault line that those responsible for the event can widen by claiming that they alone know how to restore order. When opponents speak out, the authors of the shock event call them enemies. As society reels and tempers run high, those responsible for the shock event perform a sleight of hand to achieve their real goal, a goal they know to be hugely unpopular, but from which everyone has been distracted as they fight over the initial event. There is no longer concerted opposition to the real goal; opposition divides along the partisan lines established by the shock event. Last night's Executive Order has all the hallmarks of a shock event. It was not reviewed by any governmental agencies or lawyers before it was released, and counterterrorism experts insist they did not ask for it. People charged with enforcing it got no instructions about how to do so. Courts immediately have declared parts of it unconstitutional, but border police in some airports are refusing to stop enforcing it. Predictably, chaos has followed and tempers are hot. My point today is this: unless you are the person setting it up, it is in no one's interest to play the shock event game. It is designed explicitly to divide people who might otherwise come together so they cannot stand against something its authors think they won't like. I don't know what Bannon is up to-- although I have some guesses-- but because I know Bannon's ideas well, I am positive that there is not a single person whom I consider a friend on either side of the aisle-- and my friends range pretty widely-- who will benefit from whatever it is. If the shock event strategy works, though, many of you will blame each other, rather than Bannon, for the fallout. And the country will have been tricked into accepting their real goal. But because shock events destabilize a society, they can also be used positively. We do not have to respond along old fault lines. We could just as easily reorganize into a different pattern that threatens the people who sparked the event. A successful shock event depends on speed and chaos because it requires knee-jerk reactions so that people divide along established lines. This, for example, is how Confederate leaders railroaded the initial southern states out of the Union. If people realize they are being played, though, they can reach across old lines and reorganize to challenge the leaders who are pulling the strings. This was Lincoln's strategy when he joined together Whigs, Democrats, Free-Soilers, anti-Nebraska voters, and nativists into the new Republican Party to stand against the Slave Power. Five years before, such a coalition would have been unimaginable. Members of those groups agreed on very little other than that they wanted all Americans to have equal economic opportunity. Once they began to work together to promote a fair economic system, though, they found much common ground. They ended up rededicating the nation to a "government of the people, by the people, and for the people." Confederate leaders and Lincoln both knew about the political potential of a shock event. As we are in the midst of one, it seems worth noting that Lincoln seemed to have the better idea about how to use it." Richard Beach, Professor Emeritus of English Education, University of Minnesota rbeach@umn.edu Websites: Digital writing , Media literacy , Teaching literature , Identity-focused ELA Teaching , Common Core State Standards , Apps for literacy learning , Teaching about climate change > On Jan 26, 2017, at 10:16 AM, Helena Worthen wrote: > > On the subject of dividing, here is an ugly snapshot of the wedge getting driven in ? the building trades unions finding common ground with Trump as a ?developer.? The other deeply regressive unions are the prison guards and police. > > http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2017/01/building-trades-allow-themselves-to-be-played-like-fools > > I attend monthly discussion groups in the Bay Area organized around readings from the magazine Jacobin. I like these because the other participants are mostly 20s and early 30s, techies or grad students. Very smart, very alert, very well-read and articulate. They are stamped, however, with evidence of never having studied history. (Philosophy, yes ? which is interesting.) To many of them, the building trades and police unions are typical of the political position of labor unions. > > So they see LIUNA leaders meeting with Trump and smear the whole labor movement with it. > > H > > Helena Worthen > helenaworthen@gmail.com > Berkeley, CA 94707 > Blog about US and Viet Nam: helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > > >> On Jan 26, 2017, at 9:26 AM, wrote: >> >> Yes, >> Today, the strategy of dividing, leaving us in disarray, is how i experience the deluge of draconian executive ?orders? that leaves me spinning. >> Leaves me questioning where to start. >> >> Exposing the disarray on the other side in concrete ways (Koch vs Mercer) is a valuable addition to our ways of responding. >> >> >> Sent from my Windows 10 phone >> >> From: Peg Griffin >> Sent: January 26, 2017 8:57 AM >> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred to >> >> At this point, Larry, I'm content to rise to as much concrete as I can get near, until at least the late spring, to get at ideas and contradictions, to keep moving and supporting so I'm in enough places to and bits of the movement to find the productive places for me. >> A mini-mission of mine right now is to get people to recognize the divide among the big money folks in the US -- the Mercer father daughter beat the Koch brothers within the Republican moneyed. >> The other side works hard to divide us and take advantage of the disarray, so why not pay attention when they are dividing themselves! >> No use being a day late and a dollar short about who's who! >> Maybe it's just that my great uncle was in vaudeville and showed us three yammering nieces a super card game called "52 pick-up." It's not too good too often for too long but everyone once in a while it's not a bad game. >> PG >> -----Original Message----- >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of lpscholar2@gmail.com >> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 11:02 AM >> To: Peg Griffin; 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred to >> >> Peg, Mike, >> Reading these two articles on BigData and remembering how funding will be given to academic research that slots into being verified (or negated) through BigData is profoundly disturbing and leaves me with a sense of inertia at the scope of the alienation involved in this manipulation. >> >> Using Simmel?s back and forth notion of the relation of (distance and intimacy) and finding the proper ratio depending on the events occuring then the proper relation between distance and intimacy will be shifting in scope in each historical era. >> Will our response to the vast distance incarnated through BIgData require intimate responses as counterpoint?? >> >> If this is LIKE the 1930?s, do we have any answers from the past that give glimmers of a way forward that can be responsive at scale to the distancing of BigData? >> >> Sent from my Windows 10 phone >> >> From: Peg Griffin >> Sent: January 25, 2017 5:39 PM >> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred to >> >> And here's a Guardian story https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/23/donald-trump-cambridge-analytica-steve-bannon for those interested in the post-election ties among the Mercers (father and daughter), Bannon, Conway, and Cambridge Analytica. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Peg Griffin >> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2017 7:43 PM >> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred to >> >> Hee hee hee, Mike Cole, you rogue! This is the official Cambridge Analytica site https://cambridgeanalytica.org/ But Mike direct you to a meatier sit about it! >> Peg >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole >> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2017 1:41 PM >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >> Subject: [Xmca-l] The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred to >> >> https://antidotezine.com/2017/01/22/trump-knows-you/ >> >> >> >> >> >> > > From mcole@ucsd.edu Sat Feb 4 11:55:57 2017 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 11:55:57 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Bannon's actions as "shock event" In-Reply-To: <1486190026596.25381@iped.uio.no> References: <003601d2776d$2cc0a910$8641fb30$@att.net> <003a01d27774$a0aeaf00$e20c0d00$@att.net> <588a1d8b.c280630a.7710d.bdd6@mx.google.com> <002401d277f4$d8da5ac0$8a8f1040$@att.net> <588a317a.1121620a.8e1ba.d866@mx.google.com> <71E849D1-5353-4DDA-BA83-F1DF29820355@gmail.com> <88AB2869-5898-4F23-BB2E-6CCD490C96F7@umn.edu> <1486190026596.25381@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: Richard and Alfredo I keep coming back to the question of how we, as academics, located in the system of higher education, researchers on the social creation of social inequality, ought to be re-orienting our research in light of the re-surrection of global nationalist/populism. So for me, its important to focus on concrete exemplars that might unloose this potential: "shock events' possibility not only for separating but for actually offering opportunities to re-organize and unite priorly separated forces." In a recent discussion at LCHC, this topic came up in terms of how to connect our research and our undergraduates to the life of the communities whose children do not make it to the university. Such an effort requires coordination of a variety of dis-articulated groups with a common concern about socially and culturally marginalized, econonomically stressed, communities. The challenge of engaging successfully in such work and satisfying the academic production requirements of their academic personnel committees seems a major challenge. Positive suggestions of how to meet this challenge would be warmly accepted. mike On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 10:33 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > Thanks for sharing Richard, I had seen Richardson's analysis online. In > fact the amount of analyses in the media that this crisis is generating is > overwhelming, but also very encouraging and gives hopes towards > Richardson's notes on shock events' possibility not only for separating but > for actually offering opportunities to re-organize and unite priorly > separated forces. I wonder, if Lincoln managed without the web and the > i-phone, will it happen today? > > Alfredo > ________________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Richard Beach > Sent: 03 February 2017 00:28 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Bannon's actions as "shock event" > > Here?s an interesting analysis of Bannon?s actions on banning immigrants > that?s related to Bakhtin?s notion of ?eventness? and Roth?s (2014) > analysis of ?events-in-the-making? associated with the experience of > unfolding events with unpredictable consequences. We still don?t know what > the fallout will be from attempts to implement this ban. > > >From Heather Richardson, professor of History at Boston College: > > "I don't like to talk about politics on Facebook-- political history is my > job, after all, and you are my friends-- but there is an important > non-partisan point to make today. > > What Bannon is doing, most dramatically with last night's ban on > immigration from seven predominantly Muslim countries-- is creating what is > known as a "shock event." > > Such an event is unexpected and confusing and throws a society into chaos. > People scramble to react to the event, usually along some fault line that > those responsible for the event can widen by claiming that they alone know > how to restore order. > > When opponents speak out, the authors of the shock event call them > enemies. As society reels and tempers run high, those responsible for the > shock event perform a sleight of hand to achieve their real goal, a goal > they know to be hugely unpopular, but from which everyone has been > distracted as they fight over the initial event. There is no longer > concerted opposition to the real goal; opposition divides along the > partisan lines established by the shock event. > > Last night's Executive Order has all the hallmarks of a shock event. It > was not reviewed by any governmental agencies or lawyers before it was > released, and counterterrorism experts insist they did not ask for it. > People charged with enforcing it got no instructions about how to do so. > Courts immediately have declared parts of it unconstitutional, but border > police in some airports are refusing to stop enforcing it. > > Predictably, chaos has followed and tempers are hot. > > My point today is this: unless you are the person setting it up, it is in > no one's interest to play the shock event game. It is designed explicitly > to divide people who might otherwise come together so they cannot stand > against something its authors think they won't like. > > I don't know what Bannon is up to-- although I have some guesses-- but > because I know Bannon's ideas well, I am positive that there is not a > single person whom I consider a friend on either side of the aisle-- and my > friends range pretty widely-- who will benefit from whatever it is. > > If the shock event strategy works, though, many of you will blame each > other, rather than Bannon, for the fallout. And the country will have been > tricked into accepting their real goal. > > But because shock events destabilize a society, they can also be used > positively. We do not have to respond along old fault lines. We could just > as easily reorganize into a different pattern that threatens the people who > sparked the event. > > A successful shock event depends on speed and chaos because it requires > knee-jerk reactions so that people divide along established lines. This, > for example, is how Confederate leaders railroaded the initial southern > states out of the Union. > > If people realize they are being played, though, they can reach across old > lines and reorganize to challenge the leaders who are pulling the strings. > This was Lincoln's strategy when he joined together Whigs, Democrats, > Free-Soilers, anti-Nebraska voters, and nativists into the new Republican > Party to stand against the Slave Power. > > Five years before, such a coalition would have been unimaginable. Members > of those groups agreed on very little other than that they wanted all > Americans to have equal economic opportunity. Once they began to work > together to promote a fair economic system, though, they found much common > ground. They ended up rededicating the nation to a "government of the > people, by the people, and for the people." > > Confederate leaders and Lincoln both knew about the political potential of > a shock event. As we are in the midst of one, it seems worth noting that > Lincoln seemed to have the better idea about how to use it." > > > > Richard Beach, Professor Emeritus of English Education, University of > Minnesota > rbeach@umn.edu > Websites: Digital writing , Media > literacy , Teaching literature > , Identity-focused ELA Teaching < > http://identities.pbworks.com/>, Common Core State Standards < > http://englishccss.pbworks.com/>, Apps for literacy learning < > http://usingipads.pbworks.com/>, Teaching about climate change < > http://climatechangeela.pbworks.com/> > > > > > > > > On Jan 26, 2017, at 10:16 AM, Helena Worthen > wrote: > > > > On the subject of dividing, here is an ugly snapshot of the wedge > getting driven in ? the building trades unions finding common ground with > Trump as a ?developer.? The other deeply regressive unions are the prison > guards and police. > > > > http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2017/01/building-trades-allow- > themselves-to-be-played-like-fools > > > > I attend monthly discussion groups in the Bay Area organized around > readings from the magazine Jacobin. I like these because the other > participants are mostly 20s and early 30s, techies or grad students. Very > smart, very alert, very well-read and articulate. They are stamped, > however, with evidence of never having studied history. (Philosophy, yes ? > which is interesting.) To many of them, the building trades and police > unions are typical of the political position of labor unions. > > > > So they see LIUNA leaders meeting with Trump and smear the whole labor > movement with it. > > > > H > > > > Helena Worthen > > helenaworthen@gmail.com > > Berkeley, CA 94707 > > Blog about US and Viet Nam: helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > > > > > > >> On Jan 26, 2017, at 9:26 AM, < > lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >> Yes, > >> Today, the strategy of dividing, leaving us in disarray, is how i > experience the deluge of draconian executive ?orders? that leaves me > spinning. > >> Leaves me questioning where to start. > >> > >> Exposing the disarray on the other side in concrete ways (Koch vs > Mercer) is a valuable addition to our ways of responding. > >> > >> > >> Sent from my Windows 10 phone > >> > >> From: Peg Griffin > >> Sent: January 26, 2017 8:57 AM > >> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred to > >> > >> At this point, Larry, I'm content to rise to as much concrete as I can > get near, until at least the late spring, to get at ideas and > contradictions, to keep moving and supporting so I'm in enough places to > and bits of the movement to find the productive places for me. > >> A mini-mission of mine right now is to get people to recognize the > divide among the big money folks in the US -- the Mercer father daughter > beat the Koch brothers within the Republican moneyed. > >> The other side works hard to divide us and take advantage of the > disarray, so why not pay attention when they are dividing themselves! > >> No use being a day late and a dollar short about who's who! > >> Maybe it's just that my great uncle was in vaudeville and showed us > three yammering nieces a super card game called "52 pick-up." It's not too > good too often for too long but everyone once in a while it's not a bad > game. > >> PG > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of lpscholar2@gmail.com > >> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 11:02 AM > >> To: Peg Griffin; 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred to > >> > >> Peg, Mike, > >> Reading these two articles on BigData and remembering how funding will > be given to academic research that slots into being verified (or negated) > through BigData is profoundly disturbing and leaves me with a sense of > inertia at the scope of the alienation involved in this manipulation. > >> > >> Using Simmel?s back and forth notion of the relation of (distance and > intimacy) and finding the proper ratio depending on the events occuring > then the proper relation between distance and intimacy will be shifting in > scope in each historical era. > >> Will our response to the vast distance incarnated through BIgData > require intimate responses as counterpoint?? > >> > >> If this is LIKE the 1930?s, do we have any answers from the past that > give glimmers of a way forward that can be responsive at scale to the > distancing of BigData? > >> > >> Sent from my Windows 10 phone > >> > >> From: Peg Griffin > >> Sent: January 25, 2017 5:39 PM > >> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred to > >> > >> And here's a Guardian story https://www.theguardian.com/ > us-news/2016/nov/23/donald-trump-cambridge-analytica-steve-bannon for > those interested in the post-election ties among the Mercers (father and > daughter), Bannon, Conway, and Cambridge Analytica. > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Peg Griffin > >> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2017 7:43 PM > >> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred to > >> > >> Hee hee hee, Mike Cole, you rogue! This is the official Cambridge > Analytica site https://cambridgeanalytica.org/ But Mike direct you to a > meatier sit about it! > >> Peg > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole > >> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2017 1:41 PM > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred to > >> > >> https://antidotezine.com/2017/01/22/trump-knows-you/ > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > From rbeach@umn.edu Sat Feb 4 13:46:00 2017 From: rbeach@umn.edu (Richard Beach) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 13:46:00 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] actions within academia In-Reply-To: References: <003601d2776d$2cc0a910$8641fb30$@att.net> <003a01d27774$a0aeaf00$e20c0d00$@att.net> <588a1d8b.c280630a.7710d.bdd6@mx.google.com> <002401d277f4$d8da5ac0$8a8f1040$@att.net> <588a317a.1121620a.8e1ba.d866@mx.google.com> <71E849D1-5353-4DDA-BA83-F1DF29820355@gmail.com> <88AB2869-5898-4F23-BB2E-6CCD490C96F7@umn.edu> <1486190026596.25381@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: <563DC5C2-5A29-4F62-9444-8D6B1D275857@umn.edu> Mike, regarding your call for action on campuses, my concern is that people may accept a passive stance as individuals assuming that they lack agency to make change as opposed to achieving distributed agency (Enfield, 2013) through exposure to examples of collective activism so that they achieve agency through co-action with others. Students and researchers could examine examples of current organized efforts from a CHAT perspective in terms of use of certain tools and norms to achieve certain objects/outcomes, for example: - Our Revolution national organization website - Indivisible: A Practical Guide for Resisting the Trump Agenda : Former congressional staffers reveal best practices for making Congress listen - Courage Campaign : A California-based organization of 1.3 million members promoting progressive agendas - Swing Left : Targets swing districts to promote candidates for the 2018 election. Consistent with a CHAT perspective, to avoid students framing the political space in individualist terms?as Trump does in his attacks on critics, it?s also useful for students and researchers to examine issues in terms of competing systems associated with institutional forces and change. For example, in addressing climate change, students and researchers can examine the intersections between ecological, economic, agriculture, legal, political, urban design/housing, transportation, schooling, health care, military, media, and scientific research as systems related to climate change. For example, the agribusiness agricultural system of monocrop/beef production is a major contributor to CO2 emissions related to climate change. Students can also examine examples of legal and political efforts as systems associated with addressing climate change issues , for example, a group of students in Oregon who have a lawsuit in federal courts suing the U. S. Government for failing to address climate change. Richard Beach, Professor Emeritus of English Education, University of Minnesota rbeach@umn.edu Websites: Digital writing , Media?literacy , Teaching literature , Identity-focused ELA Teaching , Common Core?State Standards , Apps for literacy?learning , Teaching about climate change > On Feb 4, 2017, at 11:55 AM, mike cole wrote: > > Richard and Alfredo > > I keep coming back to the question of how we, as academics, located in the > system of higher education, researchers on the social creation of social > inequality, ought to be re-orienting our research in light of the > re-surrection of global nationalist/populism. > > So for me, its important to focus on concrete exemplars that might unloose > this potential: "shock events' possibility not only for separating but for > actually offering opportunities to re-organize and unite priorly separated > forces." > > In a recent discussion at LCHC, this topic came up in terms of how to > connect our research and our undergraduates to the life of the communities > whose children do not make it to the university. Such an effort requires > coordination of a variety of dis-articulated groups with a common concern > about socially and culturally marginalized, econonomically stressed, > communities. > > The challenge of engaging successfully in such work and satisfying the > academic production requirements of their academic personnel committees > seems a major challenge. > > Positive suggestions of how to meet this challenge would be warmly accepted. > > mike > > > > On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 10:33 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > wrote: > >> Thanks for sharing Richard, I had seen Richardson's analysis online. In >> fact the amount of analyses in the media that this crisis is generating is >> overwhelming, but also very encouraging and gives hopes towards >> Richardson's notes on shock events' possibility not only for separating but >> for actually offering opportunities to re-organize and unite priorly >> separated forces. I wonder, if Lincoln managed without the web and the >> i-phone, will it happen today? >> >> Alfredo >> ________________________________________ >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> on behalf of Richard Beach >> Sent: 03 February 2017 00:28 >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Bannon's actions as "shock event" >> >> Here?s an interesting analysis of Bannon?s actions on banning immigrants >> that?s related to Bakhtin?s notion of ?eventness? and Roth?s (2014) >> analysis of ?events-in-the-making? associated with the experience of >> unfolding events with unpredictable consequences. We still don?t know what >> the fallout will be from attempts to implement this ban. >> >>> From Heather Richardson, professor of History at Boston College: >> >> "I don't like to talk about politics on Facebook-- political history is my >> job, after all, and you are my friends-- but there is an important >> non-partisan point to make today. >> >> What Bannon is doing, most dramatically with last night's ban on >> immigration from seven predominantly Muslim countries-- is creating what is >> known as a "shock event." >> >> Such an event is unexpected and confusing and throws a society into chaos. >> People scramble to react to the event, usually along some fault line that >> those responsible for the event can widen by claiming that they alone know >> how to restore order. >> >> When opponents speak out, the authors of the shock event call them >> enemies. As society reels and tempers run high, those responsible for the >> shock event perform a sleight of hand to achieve their real goal, a goal >> they know to be hugely unpopular, but from which everyone has been >> distracted as they fight over the initial event. There is no longer >> concerted opposition to the real goal; opposition divides along the >> partisan lines established by the shock event. >> >> Last night's Executive Order has all the hallmarks of a shock event. It >> was not reviewed by any governmental agencies or lawyers before it was >> released, and counterterrorism experts insist they did not ask for it. >> People charged with enforcing it got no instructions about how to do so. >> Courts immediately have declared parts of it unconstitutional, but border >> police in some airports are refusing to stop enforcing it. >> >> Predictably, chaos has followed and tempers are hot. >> >> My point today is this: unless you are the person setting it up, it is in >> no one's interest to play the shock event game. It is designed explicitly >> to divide people who might otherwise come together so they cannot stand >> against something its authors think they won't like. >> >> I don't know what Bannon is up to-- although I have some guesses-- but >> because I know Bannon's ideas well, I am positive that there is not a >> single person whom I consider a friend on either side of the aisle-- and my >> friends range pretty widely-- who will benefit from whatever it is. >> >> If the shock event strategy works, though, many of you will blame each >> other, rather than Bannon, for the fallout. And the country will have been >> tricked into accepting their real goal. >> >> But because shock events destabilize a society, they can also be used >> positively. We do not have to respond along old fault lines. We could just >> as easily reorganize into a different pattern that threatens the people who >> sparked the event. >> >> A successful shock event depends on speed and chaos because it requires >> knee-jerk reactions so that people divide along established lines. This, >> for example, is how Confederate leaders railroaded the initial southern >> states out of the Union. >> >> If people realize they are being played, though, they can reach across old >> lines and reorganize to challenge the leaders who are pulling the strings. >> This was Lincoln's strategy when he joined together Whigs, Democrats, >> Free-Soilers, anti-Nebraska voters, and nativists into the new Republican >> Party to stand against the Slave Power. >> >> Five years before, such a coalition would have been unimaginable. Members >> of those groups agreed on very little other than that they wanted all >> Americans to have equal economic opportunity. Once they began to work >> together to promote a fair economic system, though, they found much common >> ground. They ended up rededicating the nation to a "government of the >> people, by the people, and for the people." >> >> Confederate leaders and Lincoln both knew about the political potential of >> a shock event. As we are in the midst of one, it seems worth noting that >> Lincoln seemed to have the better idea about how to use it." >> >> >> >> Richard Beach, Professor Emeritus of English Education, University of >> Minnesota >> rbeach@umn.edu >> Websites: Digital writing , Media >> literacy , Teaching literature >> , Identity-focused ELA Teaching < >> http://identities.pbworks.com/>, Common Core State Standards < >> http://englishccss.pbworks.com/>, Apps for literacy learning < >> http://usingipads.pbworks.com/>, Teaching about climate change < >> http://climatechangeela.pbworks.com/> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Jan 26, 2017, at 10:16 AM, Helena Worthen >> wrote: >>> >>> On the subject of dividing, here is an ugly snapshot of the wedge >> getting driven in ? the building trades unions finding common ground with >> Trump as a ?developer.? The other deeply regressive unions are the prison >> guards and police. >>> >>> http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2017/01/building-trades-allow- >> themselves-to-be-played-like-fools >>> >>> I attend monthly discussion groups in the Bay Area organized around >> readings from the magazine Jacobin. I like these because the other >> participants are mostly 20s and early 30s, techies or grad students. Very >> smart, very alert, very well-read and articulate. They are stamped, >> however, with evidence of never having studied history. (Philosophy, yes ? >> which is interesting.) To many of them, the building trades and police >> unions are typical of the political position of labor unions. >>> >>> So they see LIUNA leaders meeting with Trump and smear the whole labor >> movement with it. >>> >>> H >>> >>> Helena Worthen >>> helenaworthen@gmail.com >>> Berkeley, CA 94707 >>> Blog about US and Viet Nam: helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Jan 26, 2017, at 9:26 AM, < >> lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Yes, >>>> Today, the strategy of dividing, leaving us in disarray, is how i >> experience the deluge of draconian executive ?orders? that leaves me >> spinning. >>>> Leaves me questioning where to start. >>>> >>>> Exposing the disarray on the other side in concrete ways (Koch vs >> Mercer) is a valuable addition to our ways of responding. >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my Windows 10 phone >>>> >>>> From: Peg Griffin >>>> Sent: January 26, 2017 8:57 AM >>>> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred to >>>> >>>> At this point, Larry, I'm content to rise to as much concrete as I can >> get near, until at least the late spring, to get at ideas and >> contradictions, to keep moving and supporting so I'm in enough places to >> and bits of the movement to find the productive places for me. >>>> A mini-mission of mine right now is to get people to recognize the >> divide among the big money folks in the US -- the Mercer father daughter >> beat the Koch brothers within the Republican moneyed. >>>> The other side works hard to divide us and take advantage of the >> disarray, so why not pay attention when they are dividing themselves! >>>> No use being a day late and a dollar short about who's who! >>>> Maybe it's just that my great uncle was in vaudeville and showed us >> three yammering nieces a super card game called "52 pick-up." It's not too >> good too often for too long but everyone once in a while it's not a bad >> game. >>>> PG >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of lpscholar2@gmail.com >>>> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 11:02 AM >>>> To: Peg Griffin; 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred to >>>> >>>> Peg, Mike, >>>> Reading these two articles on BigData and remembering how funding will >> be given to academic research that slots into being verified (or negated) >> through BigData is profoundly disturbing and leaves me with a sense of >> inertia at the scope of the alienation involved in this manipulation. >>>> >>>> Using Simmel?s back and forth notion of the relation of (distance and >> intimacy) and finding the proper ratio depending on the events occuring >> then the proper relation between distance and intimacy will be shifting in >> scope in each historical era. >>>> Will our response to the vast distance incarnated through BIgData >> require intimate responses as counterpoint?? >>>> >>>> If this is LIKE the 1930?s, do we have any answers from the past that >> give glimmers of a way forward that can be responsive at scale to the >> distancing of BigData? >>>> >>>> Sent from my Windows 10 phone >>>> >>>> From: Peg Griffin >>>> Sent: January 25, 2017 5:39 PM >>>> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred to >>>> >>>> And here's a Guardian story https://www.theguardian.com/ >> us-news/2016/nov/23/donald-trump-cambridge-analytica-steve-bannon for >> those interested in the post-election ties among the Mercers (father and >> daughter), Bannon, Conway, and Cambridge Analytica. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Peg Griffin >>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2017 7:43 PM >>>> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred to >>>> >>>> Hee hee hee, Mike Cole, you rogue! This is the official Cambridge >> Analytica site https://cambridgeanalytica.org/ But Mike direct you to a >> meatier sit about it! >>>> Peg >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole >>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2017 1:41 PM >>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred to >>>> >>>> https://antidotezine.com/2017/01/22/trump-knows-you/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> From dkellogg60@gmail.com Sat Feb 4 14:49:54 2017 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 07:49:54 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Bannon's actions as "shock event" In-Reply-To: References: <003601d2776d$2cc0a910$8641fb30$@att.net> <003a01d27774$a0aeaf00$e20c0d00$@att.net> <588a1d8b.c280630a.7710d.bdd6@mx.google.com> <002401d277f4$d8da5ac0$8a8f1040$@att.net> <588a317a.1121620a.8e1ba.d866@mx.google.com> <71E849D1-5353-4DDA-BA83-F1DF29820355@gmail.com> <88AB2869-5898-4F23-BB2E-6CCD490C96F7@umn.edu> <1486190026596.25381@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: I think that if the immigration ban is designed as a "shock event", we need to think of it more in terms the Kirov assassination or the Reichstag fire or Kristallnacht rather than in terms of the attack on Fort Sumter. These were essentially publicity stunts of no military value. Stockhausen was right to see 9/11 as performance art: in all of these cases, the perpetrators acted on impulse and had no clearer idea of the outcome of their actions than their victims--probably a good deal less clear, given that a lapse of empathy was a precondition of their ability to act. Bannon's assertion that "real power" is when your "enemy" has no idea what you are doing is just his usual Snidely Whiplash rewording of Trump's own inanities (remember the "Secret Plan" to eliminate "ISIS"? "Healthcare for Everybody", anybody?). The muppet show chaos is really just chaos; the regime's reliance on reality-show plot twists and twitter to rule a vast, complex country is just another sign that when you are unimaginative, the mere fact that something is actual and real and immediate does nothing to render it imaginible. Similarly, I think that victory in the civil war was not due to Lincoln's skill at rigging parliamentary coalitions but rather to the sacrifice of half a million northern lives and an overwhelming historical superiority of the Northern social system over that of the south. I don't think history offers shortcuts to social transformations, any more than I think that academics will ever be offered stable, tenured positions for thinking of alternatives to the status quo by the status quo. This isn't pessimism: quite the contrary. It seems to me that what it means is that academics do have a role in exposing chaos as simply due to incompetence and conspiracy theories as just cover-ups for screw-ups. Just as big social problems have only big answers, small ones can have small ones (e.g. a Seattle judge finding that there is no legal way to do things that are fundamentally unconstitutional). David Kellogg Macquarie University On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 4:55 AM, mike cole wrote: > Richard and Alfredo > > I keep coming back to the question of how we, as academics, located in the > system of higher education, researchers on the social creation of social > inequality, ought to be re-orienting our research in light of the > re-surrection of global nationalist/populism. > > So for me, its important to focus on concrete exemplars that might unloose > this potential: "shock events' possibility not only for separating but for > actually offering opportunities to re-organize and unite priorly separated > forces." > > In a recent discussion at LCHC, this topic came up in terms of how to > connect our research and our undergraduates to the life of the communities > whose children do not make it to the university. Such an effort requires > coordination of a variety of dis-articulated groups with a common concern > about socially and culturally marginalized, econonomically stressed, > communities. > > The challenge of engaging successfully in such work and satisfying the > academic production requirements of their academic personnel committees > seems a major challenge. > > Positive suggestions of how to meet this challenge would be warmly > accepted. > > mike > > > > On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 10:33 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > wrote: > > > Thanks for sharing Richard, I had seen Richardson's analysis online. In > > fact the amount of analyses in the media that this crisis is generating > is > > overwhelming, but also very encouraging and gives hopes towards > > Richardson's notes on shock events' possibility not only for separating > but > > for actually offering opportunities to re-organize and unite priorly > > separated forces. I wonder, if Lincoln managed without the web and the > > i-phone, will it happen today? > > > > Alfredo > > ________________________________________ > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > on behalf of Richard Beach > > Sent: 03 February 2017 00:28 > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Bannon's actions as "shock event" > > > > Here?s an interesting analysis of Bannon?s actions on banning immigrants > > that?s related to Bakhtin?s notion of ?eventness? and Roth?s (2014) > > analysis of ?events-in-the-making? associated with the experience of > > unfolding events with unpredictable consequences. We still don?t know > what > > the fallout will be from attempts to implement this ban. > > > > >From Heather Richardson, professor of History at Boston College: > > > > "I don't like to talk about politics on Facebook-- political history is > my > > job, after all, and you are my friends-- but there is an important > > non-partisan point to make today. > > > > What Bannon is doing, most dramatically with last night's ban on > > immigration from seven predominantly Muslim countries-- is creating what > is > > known as a "shock event." > > > > Such an event is unexpected and confusing and throws a society into > chaos. > > People scramble to react to the event, usually along some fault line that > > those responsible for the event can widen by claiming that they alone > know > > how to restore order. > > > > When opponents speak out, the authors of the shock event call them > > enemies. As society reels and tempers run high, those responsible for the > > shock event perform a sleight of hand to achieve their real goal, a goal > > they know to be hugely unpopular, but from which everyone has been > > distracted as they fight over the initial event. There is no longer > > concerted opposition to the real goal; opposition divides along the > > partisan lines established by the shock event. > > > > Last night's Executive Order has all the hallmarks of a shock event. It > > was not reviewed by any governmental agencies or lawyers before it was > > released, and counterterrorism experts insist they did not ask for it. > > People charged with enforcing it got no instructions about how to do so. > > Courts immediately have declared parts of it unconstitutional, but border > > police in some airports are refusing to stop enforcing it. > > > > Predictably, chaos has followed and tempers are hot. > > > > My point today is this: unless you are the person setting it up, it is in > > no one's interest to play the shock event game. It is designed explicitly > > to divide people who might otherwise come together so they cannot stand > > against something its authors think they won't like. > > > > I don't know what Bannon is up to-- although I have some guesses-- but > > because I know Bannon's ideas well, I am positive that there is not a > > single person whom I consider a friend on either side of the aisle-- and > my > > friends range pretty widely-- who will benefit from whatever it is. > > > > If the shock event strategy works, though, many of you will blame each > > other, rather than Bannon, for the fallout. And the country will have > been > > tricked into accepting their real goal. > > > > But because shock events destabilize a society, they can also be used > > positively. We do not have to respond along old fault lines. We could > just > > as easily reorganize into a different pattern that threatens the people > who > > sparked the event. > > > > A successful shock event depends on speed and chaos because it requires > > knee-jerk reactions so that people divide along established lines. This, > > for example, is how Confederate leaders railroaded the initial southern > > states out of the Union. > > > > If people realize they are being played, though, they can reach across > old > > lines and reorganize to challenge the leaders who are pulling the > strings. > > This was Lincoln's strategy when he joined together Whigs, Democrats, > > Free-Soilers, anti-Nebraska voters, and nativists into the new Republican > > Party to stand against the Slave Power. > > > > Five years before, such a coalition would have been unimaginable. Members > > of those groups agreed on very little other than that they wanted all > > Americans to have equal economic opportunity. Once they began to work > > together to promote a fair economic system, though, they found much > common > > ground. They ended up rededicating the nation to a "government of the > > people, by the people, and for the people." > > > > Confederate leaders and Lincoln both knew about the political potential > of > > a shock event. As we are in the midst of one, it seems worth noting that > > Lincoln seemed to have the better idea about how to use it." > > > > > > > > Richard Beach, Professor Emeritus of English Education, University of > > Minnesota > > rbeach@umn.edu > > Websites: Digital writing , Media > > literacy , Teaching > literature > > , Identity-focused ELA Teaching > < > > http://identities.pbworks.com/>, Common Core State Standards < > > http://englishccss.pbworks.com/>, Apps for literacy learning < > > http://usingipads.pbworks.com/>, Teaching about climate change < > > http://climatechangeela.pbworks.com/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 26, 2017, at 10:16 AM, Helena Worthen > > wrote: > > > > > > On the subject of dividing, here is an ugly snapshot of the wedge > > getting driven in ? the building trades unions finding common ground with > > Trump as a ?developer.? The other deeply regressive unions are the prison > > guards and police. > > > > > > http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2017/01/building-trades-allow- > > themselves-to-be-played-like-fools > > > > > > I attend monthly discussion groups in the Bay Area organized around > > readings from the magazine Jacobin. I like these because the other > > participants are mostly 20s and early 30s, techies or grad students. Very > > smart, very alert, very well-read and articulate. They are stamped, > > however, with evidence of never having studied history. (Philosophy, yes > ? > > which is interesting.) To many of them, the building trades and police > > unions are typical of the political position of labor unions. > > > > > > So they see LIUNA leaders meeting with Trump and smear the whole labor > > movement with it. > > > > > > H > > > > > > Helena Worthen > > > helenaworthen@gmail.com > > > Berkeley, CA 94707 > > > Blog about US and Viet Nam: helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > > > > > > > > > > >> On Jan 26, 2017, at 9:26 AM, < > > lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote: > > >> > > >> Yes, > > >> Today, the strategy of dividing, leaving us in disarray, is how i > > experience the deluge of draconian executive ?orders? that leaves me > > spinning. > > >> Leaves me questioning where to start. > > >> > > >> Exposing the disarray on the other side in concrete ways (Koch vs > > Mercer) is a valuable addition to our ways of responding. > > >> > > >> > > >> Sent from my Windows 10 phone > > >> > > >> From: Peg Griffin > > >> Sent: January 26, 2017 8:57 AM > > >> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred > to > > >> > > >> At this point, Larry, I'm content to rise to as much concrete as I can > > get near, until at least the late spring, to get at ideas and > > contradictions, to keep moving and supporting so I'm in enough places to > > and bits of the movement to find the productive places for me. > > >> A mini-mission of mine right now is to get people to recognize the > > divide among the big money folks in the US -- the Mercer father daughter > > beat the Koch brothers within the Republican moneyed. > > >> The other side works hard to divide us and take advantage of the > > disarray, so why not pay attention when they are dividing themselves! > > >> No use being a day late and a dollar short about who's who! > > >> Maybe it's just that my great uncle was in vaudeville and showed us > > three yammering nieces a super card game called "52 pick-up." It's not > too > > good too often for too long but everyone once in a while it's not a bad > > game. > > >> PG > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of lpscholar2@gmail.com > > >> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 11:02 AM > > >> To: Peg Griffin; 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred > to > > >> > > >> Peg, Mike, > > >> Reading these two articles on BigData and remembering how funding will > > be given to academic research that slots into being verified (or negated) > > through BigData is profoundly disturbing and leaves me with a sense of > > inertia at the scope of the alienation involved in this manipulation. > > >> > > >> Using Simmel?s back and forth notion of the relation of (distance and > > intimacy) and finding the proper ratio depending on the events occuring > > then the proper relation between distance and intimacy will be shifting > in > > scope in each historical era. > > >> Will our response to the vast distance incarnated through BIgData > > require intimate responses as counterpoint?? > > >> > > >> If this is LIKE the 1930?s, do we have any answers from the past that > > give glimmers of a way forward that can be responsive at scale to the > > distancing of BigData? > > >> > > >> Sent from my Windows 10 phone > > >> > > >> From: Peg Griffin > > >> Sent: January 25, 2017 5:39 PM > > >> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred > to > > >> > > >> And here's a Guardian story https://www.theguardian.com/ > > us-news/2016/nov/23/donald-trump-cambridge-analytica-steve-bannon for > > those interested in the post-election ties among the Mercers (father and > > daughter), Bannon, Conway, and Cambridge Analytica. > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Peg Griffin > > >> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2017 7:43 PM > > >> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred > to > > >> > > >> Hee hee hee, Mike Cole, you rogue! This is the official Cambridge > > Analytica site https://cambridgeanalytica.org/ But Mike direct you to a > > meatier sit about it! > > >> Peg > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole > > >> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2017 1:41 PM > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred to > > >> > > >> https://antidotezine.com/2017/01/22/trump-knows-you/ > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > From ewall@umich.edu Sat Feb 4 16:07:44 2017 From: ewall@umich.edu (Edward Wall) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 18:07:44 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Perezhivanie and Organic In-Reply-To: References: <5893695b.c32f630a.3d640.41ee@mx.google.com> Message-ID: David Yes, that was the difference I was noting. Vygotsky in the passages I was reading seems to using ?organic? as denoting something ?natural,' while Stanislavsky seemed to using it s somewhat more holistic fashion. Ed > On Feb 2, 2017, at 3:01 PM, David Kellogg wrote: > > The Russian word that Vygotsky uses for "organic" is the same as the word > we use, and I assume that the same thing is true of the word that > Stanislavsky used. It is "organic" transliterated into Cyrillic, rather > than translated into Russian. > > What really makes this problem new-thread-worthy is that the meaning of the > word "organic" at the end of the nineteenth century is not the same as the > word meaning that we use in several important ways. > > Take, for example, the crudest possible way: semantic prosody, or the "good > vibes" of some words (e.g. "organic food") vs. the "bad vibes" of others > (e.g. "artificial flavor"). The nineteenth century began with a romantic > movement towards nature and towards holism ("Gestaltism"), against dogmatic > rationalism and atomism. So "organicism" had a semantic prosody that > involved not only naturalism (which it still does) but also a form of > proto-structuralism. Organic structure involved a complex whole with parts > that are interdependent like organs and not independent like ball bearings. > > Today, this semantic prosody falls on deaf ears. If anything, it's the > other way around: we know all about cells, and we know that they are > independant and dispensible in large numbers (you slough off millions every > day). But mechanical parts are precisely engineered to fit each other, and > for the want of one, the whole machine comes to a grinding halt. > > Nevertheless, we can still see this older meaning of organicism in > Toennies' distinction between Gemeinschaft (community, mechanical > solidarity) and Gesellschaft (society,organic solidarity) and also in the > work of Bernsetin (workers have a mechanical solidarity based on likeness > while middle class people have organic solidarity based on mutual > instrumentality). > > (Of course, there's the same problem. Even working class families have an > organic solidarity, while it is sometimes hard to believe that white collar > office workers sitting at computers in cubicles are anything bt > mechanical....) > > David Kellogg > Macquarie University > > On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 4:20 AM, Edward Wall wrote: > >> Stanislavisk seems to consider what is termed ?organic? in his taking up >> of perezhivanie. Vygotsky also uses the term ?organic,? although as near as >> I can tell, without regard to perezhivanie. However, what seems to be being >> called ?organic? is very different (or so it seems) in these two cases. Is >> the Rusiian different? >> >> Ed Wall >> >>> On Feb 2, 2017, at 11:15 AM, lpscholar2@gmail.com wrote: >>> >>> Beth and Monica explore the phenomena occurring in playworlds generating >> perezhivanie. >>> >>> Playworlds are performance worlds and these worlds may be exploring the >> relation of ?unity? and ?difference?. >>> >>> Another term that may have relevance when Beth and Monica refer to >> negating the negation is the operation of ?apophasis?. >>> William Frank (On What Cannot Be Said) describes the apophatic : >>> >>> *In apophasis, which empties language of all positive content, absolute >> difference cannot be distinguished from absolute unity, even though the >> respective discourses of difference and unity nominally stand at the >> antipodes. BOTH configurations, unity and difference, are exposed as >> relatively arbitrary and, in the end, equally inadequate schemas for >> articulating what cannot be said. (Franke) >>> >>> Claire Chambers in her book (Performance Studies and Negative >> Epistemology) comments on the above Franke citation : >>> >>> *If unity and difference cannot be distinguished from one another (we >> cannot KNOW what makes them distinct), then it is impossible to determine >> what either ?is? ? meaning that knowing and being, epistemology and >> ontology, are also impossible to distinguish from one another.(Claire >> Chambers Chapter 1) >>> >>> I am not sure how far to go with this theme of : Negating the negation? >>> I hear this theme in playworlds. >>> >>> If this seems relevant, i can post the first chapter of Claire Chambers >> book. I will just mention that Vygotsky?s Judaic childhood and adolescence >> would have encountered this apophatic ?tradition?. >>> Enough for one probe or possible pivot? >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my Windows 10 phone >>> >> >> >> From hshonerd@gmail.com Sat Feb 4 16:35:05 2017 From: hshonerd@gmail.com (HENRY SHONERD) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 17:35:05 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: actions within academia In-Reply-To: <563DC5C2-5A29-4F62-9444-8D6B1D275857@umn.edu> References: <003601d2776d$2cc0a910$8641fb30$@att.net> <003a01d27774$a0aeaf00$e20c0d00$@att.net> <588a1d8b.c280630a.7710d.bdd6@mx.google.com> <002401d277f4$d8da5ac0$8a8f1040$@att.net> <588a317a.1121620a.8e1ba.d866@mx.google.com> <71E849D1-5353-4DDA-BA83-F1DF29820355@gmail.com> <88AB2869-5898-4F23-BB2E-6CCD490C96F7@umn.edu> <1486190026596.25381@iped.uio.no> <563DC5C2-5A29-4F62-9444-8D6B1D275857@umn.edu> Message-ID: <034D32A2-D0A6-455E-8580-FAFE881A108A@gmail.com> Richard, Many thanks for this. What great resources! Medaiting artefacts. They come at a good time for my wife and me as far as what needs to be done in the larger social domain. Distributed agency at different scales. Within each circle we need trust and respect of one another. That really resonates all through. I like the metaphor of electro-magnetic field. It was in the title of my letter honoring Vera in the book Bob Lake and Cathrene Connery edited. (Shout out to Bob and Cathrene!) Part of Vera?s magic circle we are. So the circles are across generations. (Shout out to Vera!) Such cool people on the chat. But warm blooded. (Shout out to Andy!) Henry > On Feb 4, 2017, at 2:46 PM, Richard Beach wrote: > > Mike, regarding your call for action on campuses, my concern is that people may accept a passive stance as individuals assuming that they lack agency to make change as opposed to achieving distributed agency (Enfield, 2013) through exposure to examples of collective activism so that they achieve agency through co-action with others. Students and researchers could examine examples of current organized efforts from a CHAT perspective in terms of use of certain tools and norms to achieve certain objects/outcomes, for example: > > - Our Revolution national organization website > > - Indivisible: A Practical Guide for Resisting the Trump Agenda : Former congressional staffers reveal best practices for making Congress listen > > - Courage Campaign : A California-based organization of 1.3 million members promoting progressive agendas > > - Swing Left : Targets swing districts to promote candidates for the 2018 election. > Consistent with a CHAT perspective, to avoid students framing the political space in individualist terms?as Trump does in his attacks on critics, it?s also useful for students and researchers to examine issues in terms of competing systems associated with institutional forces and change. For example, in addressing climate change, students and researchers can examine the intersections between ecological, economic, agriculture, legal, political, urban design/housing, transportation, schooling, health care, military, media, and scientific research as systems related to climate change. For example, the agribusiness agricultural system of monocrop/beef production is a major contributor to CO2 emissions related to climate change. Students can also examine examples of legal and political efforts as systems associated with addressing climate change issues , for example, a group of students in Oregon who have a lawsuit in federal courts suing the U. S. Government for failing to address climate change. > > > Richard Beach, Professor Emeritus of English Education, University of Minnesota > rbeach@umn.edu > Websites: Digital writing , Media literacy , Teaching literature , Identity-focused ELA Teaching , Common Core State Standards , Apps for literacy learning , Teaching about climate change > > > > > > >> On Feb 4, 2017, at 11:55 AM, mike cole wrote: >> >> Richard and Alfredo >> >> I keep coming back to the question of how we, as academics, located in the >> system of higher education, researchers on the social creation of social >> inequality, ought to be re-orienting our research in light of the >> re-surrection of global nationalist/populism. >> >> So for me, its important to focus on concrete exemplars that might unloose >> this potential: "shock events' possibility not only for separating but for >> actually offering opportunities to re-organize and unite priorly separated >> forces." >> >> In a recent discussion at LCHC, this topic came up in terms of how to >> connect our research and our undergraduates to the life of the communities >> whose children do not make it to the university. Such an effort requires >> coordination of a variety of dis-articulated groups with a common concern >> about socially and culturally marginalized, econonomically stressed, >> communities. >> >> The challenge of engaging successfully in such work and satisfying the >> academic production requirements of their academic personnel committees >> seems a major challenge. >> >> Positive suggestions of how to meet this challenge would be warmly accepted. >> >> mike >> >> >> >> On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 10:33 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil >> wrote: >> >>> Thanks for sharing Richard, I had seen Richardson's analysis online. In >>> fact the amount of analyses in the media that this crisis is generating is >>> overwhelming, but also very encouraging and gives hopes towards >>> Richardson's notes on shock events' possibility not only for separating but >>> for actually offering opportunities to re-organize and unite priorly >>> separated forces. I wonder, if Lincoln managed without the web and the >>> i-phone, will it happen today? >>> >>> Alfredo >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>> on behalf of Richard Beach >>> Sent: 03 February 2017 00:28 >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Bannon's actions as "shock event" >>> >>> Here?s an interesting analysis of Bannon?s actions on banning immigrants >>> that?s related to Bakhtin?s notion of ?eventness? and Roth?s (2014) >>> analysis of ?events-in-the-making? associated with the experience of >>> unfolding events with unpredictable consequences. We still don?t know what >>> the fallout will be from attempts to implement this ban. >>> >>>> From Heather Richardson, professor of History at Boston College: >>> >>> "I don't like to talk about politics on Facebook-- political history is my >>> job, after all, and you are my friends-- but there is an important >>> non-partisan point to make today. >>> >>> What Bannon is doing, most dramatically with last night's ban on >>> immigration from seven predominantly Muslim countries-- is creating what is >>> known as a "shock event." >>> >>> Such an event is unexpected and confusing and throws a society into chaos. >>> People scramble to react to the event, usually along some fault line that >>> those responsible for the event can widen by claiming that they alone know >>> how to restore order. >>> >>> When opponents speak out, the authors of the shock event call them >>> enemies. As society reels and tempers run high, those responsible for the >>> shock event perform a sleight of hand to achieve their real goal, a goal >>> they know to be hugely unpopular, but from which everyone has been >>> distracted as they fight over the initial event. There is no longer >>> concerted opposition to the real goal; opposition divides along the >>> partisan lines established by the shock event. >>> >>> Last night's Executive Order has all the hallmarks of a shock event. It >>> was not reviewed by any governmental agencies or lawyers before it was >>> released, and counterterrorism experts insist they did not ask for it. >>> People charged with enforcing it got no instructions about how to do so. >>> Courts immediately have declared parts of it unconstitutional, but border >>> police in some airports are refusing to stop enforcing it. >>> >>> Predictably, chaos has followed and tempers are hot. >>> >>> My point today is this: unless you are the person setting it up, it is in >>> no one's interest to play the shock event game. It is designed explicitly >>> to divide people who might otherwise come together so they cannot stand >>> against something its authors think they won't like. >>> >>> I don't know what Bannon is up to-- although I have some guesses-- but >>> because I know Bannon's ideas well, I am positive that there is not a >>> single person whom I consider a friend on either side of the aisle-- and my >>> friends range pretty widely-- who will benefit from whatever it is. >>> >>> If the shock event strategy works, though, many of you will blame each >>> other, rather than Bannon, for the fallout. And the country will have been >>> tricked into accepting their real goal. >>> >>> But because shock events destabilize a society, they can also be used >>> positively. We do not have to respond along old fault lines. We could just >>> as easily reorganize into a different pattern that threatens the people who >>> sparked the event. >>> >>> A successful shock event depends on speed and chaos because it requires >>> knee-jerk reactions so that people divide along established lines. This, >>> for example, is how Confederate leaders railroaded the initial southern >>> states out of the Union. >>> >>> If people realize they are being played, though, they can reach across old >>> lines and reorganize to challenge the leaders who are pulling the strings. >>> This was Lincoln's strategy when he joined together Whigs, Democrats, >>> Free-Soilers, anti-Nebraska voters, and nativists into the new Republican >>> Party to stand against the Slave Power. >>> >>> Five years before, such a coalition would have been unimaginable. Members >>> of those groups agreed on very little other than that they wanted all >>> Americans to have equal economic opportunity. Once they began to work >>> together to promote a fair economic system, though, they found much common >>> ground. They ended up rededicating the nation to a "government of the >>> people, by the people, and for the people." >>> >>> Confederate leaders and Lincoln both knew about the political potential of >>> a shock event. As we are in the midst of one, it seems worth noting that >>> Lincoln seemed to have the better idea about how to use it." >>> >>> >>> >>> Richard Beach, Professor Emeritus of English Education, University of >>> Minnesota >>> rbeach@umn.edu >>> Websites: Digital writing , Media >>> literacy , Teaching literature >>> , Identity-focused ELA Teaching < >>> http://identities.pbworks.com/>, Common Core State Standards < >>> http://englishccss.pbworks.com/>, Apps for literacy learning < >>> http://usingipads.pbworks.com/>, Teaching about climate change < >>> http://climatechangeela.pbworks.com/> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Jan 26, 2017, at 10:16 AM, Helena Worthen >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> On the subject of dividing, here is an ugly snapshot of the wedge >>> getting driven in ? the building trades unions finding common ground with >>> Trump as a ?developer.? The other deeply regressive unions are the prison >>> guards and police. >>>> >>>> http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2017/01/building-trades-allow- >>> themselves-to-be-played-like-fools >>>> >>>> I attend monthly discussion groups in the Bay Area organized around >>> readings from the magazine Jacobin. I like these because the other >>> participants are mostly 20s and early 30s, techies or grad students. Very >>> smart, very alert, very well-read and articulate. They are stamped, >>> however, with evidence of never having studied history. (Philosophy, yes ? >>> which is interesting.) To many of them, the building trades and police >>> unions are typical of the political position of labor unions. >>>> >>>> So they see LIUNA leaders meeting with Trump and smear the whole labor >>> movement with it. >>>> >>>> H >>>> >>>> Helena Worthen >>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com >>>> Berkeley, CA 94707 >>>> Blog about US and Viet Nam: helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Jan 26, 2017, at 9:26 AM, < >>> lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Yes, >>>>> Today, the strategy of dividing, leaving us in disarray, is how i >>> experience the deluge of draconian executive ?orders? that leaves me >>> spinning. >>>>> Leaves me questioning where to start. >>>>> >>>>> Exposing the disarray on the other side in concrete ways (Koch vs >>> Mercer) is a valuable addition to our ways of responding. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my Windows 10 phone >>>>> >>>>> From: Peg Griffin >>>>> Sent: January 26, 2017 8:57 AM >>>>> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' >>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred to >>>>> >>>>> At this point, Larry, I'm content to rise to as much concrete as I can >>> get near, until at least the late spring, to get at ideas and >>> contradictions, to keep moving and supporting so I'm in enough places to >>> and bits of the movement to find the productive places for me. >>>>> A mini-mission of mine right now is to get people to recognize the >>> divide among the big money folks in the US -- the Mercer father daughter >>> beat the Koch brothers within the Republican moneyed. >>>>> The other side works hard to divide us and take advantage of the >>> disarray, so why not pay attention when they are dividing themselves! >>>>> No use being a day late and a dollar short about who's who! >>>>> Maybe it's just that my great uncle was in vaudeville and showed us >>> three yammering nieces a super card game called "52 pick-up." It's not too >>> good too often for too long but everyone once in a while it's not a bad >>> game. >>>>> PG >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >>> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of lpscholar2@gmail.com >>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 11:02 AM >>>>> To: Peg Griffin; 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' >>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred to >>>>> >>>>> Peg, Mike, >>>>> Reading these two articles on BigData and remembering how funding will >>> be given to academic research that slots into being verified (or negated) >>> through BigData is profoundly disturbing and leaves me with a sense of >>> inertia at the scope of the alienation involved in this manipulation. >>>>> >>>>> Using Simmel?s back and forth notion of the relation of (distance and >>> intimacy) and finding the proper ratio depending on the events occuring >>> then the proper relation between distance and intimacy will be shifting in >>> scope in each historical era. >>>>> Will our response to the vast distance incarnated through BIgData >>> require intimate responses as counterpoint?? >>>>> >>>>> If this is LIKE the 1930?s, do we have any answers from the past that >>> give glimmers of a way forward that can be responsive at scale to the >>> distancing of BigData? >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my Windows 10 phone >>>>> >>>>> From: Peg Griffin >>>>> Sent: January 25, 2017 5:39 PM >>>>> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' >>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred to >>>>> >>>>> And here's a Guardian story https://www.theguardian.com/ >>> us-news/2016/nov/23/donald-trump-cambridge-analytica-steve-bannon for >>> those interested in the post-election ties among the Mercers (father and >>> daughter), Bannon, Conway, and Cambridge Analytica. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >>> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Peg Griffin >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2017 7:43 PM >>>>> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' >>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred to >>>>> >>>>> Hee hee hee, Mike Cole, you rogue! This is the official Cambridge >>> Analytica site https://cambridgeanalytica.org/ But Mike direct you to a >>> meatier sit about it! >>>>> Peg >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >>> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2017 1:41 PM >>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred to >>>>> >>>>> https://antidotezine.com/2017/01/22/trump-knows-you/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> > From hshonerd@gmail.com Sat Feb 4 16:50:00 2017 From: hshonerd@gmail.com (HENRY SHONERD) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 17:50:00 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Playworlds, Performance, Perezhivanie, Apophasis ... and TRUMP'S speech! In-Reply-To: <1486189210098.72503@iped.uio.no> References: <5893695b.c32f630a.3d640.41ee@mx.google.com> <1486189210098.72503@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: Alfredo, Would the attached link be an example of apophasis? I hope the link gets you the cartoon from Daily Kos on Feb 1, which illustrates the "cognitive dissonance of Trump supporters?. http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/2/1/1628099/-Cartoon-Trump-supporters-cognitive-dissonance?detail=email&link_id=15&can_id=d9825820685b26308482b9b5c5bb095d&source=email-trump-reportedly-tells-female-staffers-to-dress-like-womentwitter-says-fun&email_referrer=trump-reportedly-tells-female-staffers-to-dress-like-womentwitter-says-fun___162460&email_subject=news-organizations-and-festivities-begin-pulling-out-of-annual-correspondents-dinner-with-trump Henry > On Feb 3, 2017, at 11:20 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > > Larry, > I am familiar with the term apophantic (the auto-spelling keeps correcting the term to "hipophatic" which is the term you use) as it appears in Heidegger. Not sure now about the connection with Vygotsky that you are after; it seems quite of a complex thread to weave across, at least in the xmca format. > > But!, since I wanted to make sure we were using the same term, I did google it and, guess what I found? An example of apophasis as used by TRUMP!: > > In 2015, Trump said of fellow Republican presidential candidate and former Hewlett-Packard CEO Carly Fiorina, "I promised I would not say that she ran Hewlett-Packard into the ground, that she laid off tens of thousands of people and she got viciously fired. I said I will not say it, so I will not say it."In 2016, he tweeted of journalist Megyn Kelly, ?I refuse to call [her] a bimbo, because that would not be politically correct." > > Here is the link to the full article from the Huffington post: > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-rhetorical-device_us_56c358cbe4b0c3c55052b32b > > Alfredo > ________________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of lpscholar2@gmail.com > Sent: 02 February 2017 18:15 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Playworlds, Performance, Perezhivanie, Apophasis > > Beth and Monica explore the phenomena occurring in playworlds generating perezhivanie. > > Playworlds are performance worlds and these worlds may be exploring the relation of ?unity? and ?difference?. > > Another term that may have relevance when Beth and Monica refer to negating the negation is the operation of ?apophasis?. > William Frank (On What Cannot Be Said) describes the apophatic : > > *In apophasis, which empties language of all positive content, absolute difference cannot be distinguished from absolute unity, even though the respective discourses of difference and unity nominally stand at the antipodes. BOTH configurations, unity and difference, are exposed as relatively arbitrary and, in the end, equally inadequate schemas for articulating what cannot be said. (Franke) > > Claire Chambers in her book (Performance Studies and Negative Epistemology) comments on the above Franke citation : > > *If unity and difference cannot be distinguished from one another (we cannot KNOW what makes them distinct), then it is impossible to determine what either ?is? ? meaning that knowing and being, epistemology and ontology, are also impossible to distinguish from one another.(Claire Chambers Chapter 1) > > I am not sure how far to go with this theme of : Negating the negation? > I hear this theme in playworlds. > > If this seems relevant, i can post the first chapter of Claire Chambers book. I will just mention that Vygotsky?s Judaic childhood and adolescence would have encountered this apophatic ?tradition?. > Enough for one probe or possible pivot? > > > > Sent from my Windows 10 phone > From helenaworthen@gmail.com Sat Feb 4 17:10:09 2017 From: helenaworthen@gmail.com (Helena Worthen) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 17:10:09 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: actions within academia In-Reply-To: <034D32A2-D0A6-455E-8580-FAFE881A108A@gmail.com> References: <003601d2776d$2cc0a910$8641fb30$@att.net> <003a01d27774$a0aeaf00$e20c0d00$@att.net> <588a1d8b.c280630a.7710d.bdd6@mx.google.com> <002401d277f4$d8da5ac0$8a8f1040$@att.net> <588a317a.1121620a.8e1ba.d866@mx.google.com> <71E849D1-5353-4DDA-BA83-F1DF29820355@gmail.com> <88AB2869-5898-4F23-BB2E-6CCD490C96F7@umn.edu> <1486190026596.25381@iped.uio.no> <563DC5C2-5A29-4F62-9444-8D6B1D275857@umn.edu> <034D32A2-D0A6-455E-8580-FAFE881A108A@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9432F663-5CCE-4D35-9FAB-2235D83A5044@gmail.com> Actions within academia? Following the advice of thinking globally, acting locally, don?t forget the third kind of action within academia: paying attention to the faculty workforce itself, which is has been deteriorating into a gig economy for the last 30 plus years. If there is organizing going on among adjuncts on your campus, seek it out and support it; if there is a campus coalition of university-wide unions (which will mean secretaries, techies, landscapers, food workers, transportation and custodial workers as well as faculty of all levels), attend meetings and be supportive; in faculty meetings, insist on adjuncts/lecturers be treated equally. If a new kind of program gets floated (for example, an online degree) ask, ?Who is doing this work? What are their working conditions?? It?s amazing what a strong workforce-wide coalition can do to slow down the construction of luxury rec facilities and the closure of language or ethnic studies programs. Third kind meaning in addition to doing research or designing curriculum that has progressive content or protecting structures of opportunity that reduce inequality. H Helena Worthen helenaworthen@gmail.com Berkeley, CA 94707 Blog about US and Viet Nam: helenaworthen.wordpress.com > On Feb 4, 2017, at 4:35 PM, HENRY SHONERD wrote: > > Richard, > Many thanks for this. What great resources! Medaiting artefacts. They come at a good time for my wife and me as far as what needs to be done in the larger social domain. Distributed agency at different scales. Within each circle we need trust and respect of one another. That really resonates all through. I like the metaphor of electro-magnetic field. It was in the title of my letter honoring Vera in the book Bob Lake and Cathrene Connery edited. (Shout out to Bob and Cathrene!) Part of Vera?s magic circle we are. So the circles are across generations. (Shout out to Vera!) Such cool people on the chat. But warm blooded. (Shout out to Andy!) > Henry > >> On Feb 4, 2017, at 2:46 PM, Richard Beach wrote: >> >> Mike, regarding your call for action on campuses, my concern is that people may accept a passive stance as individuals assuming that they lack agency to make change as opposed to achieving distributed agency (Enfield, 2013) through exposure to examples of collective activism so that they achieve agency through co-action with others. Students and researchers could examine examples of current organized efforts from a CHAT perspective in terms of use of certain tools and norms to achieve certain objects/outcomes, for example: >> >> - Our Revolution national organization website >> >> - Indivisible: A Practical Guide for Resisting the Trump Agenda : Former congressional staffers reveal best practices for making Congress listen >> >> - Courage Campaign : A California-based organization of 1.3 million members promoting progressive agendas >> >> - Swing Left : Targets swing districts to promote candidates for the 2018 election. >> Consistent with a CHAT perspective, to avoid students framing the political space in individualist terms?as Trump does in his attacks on critics, it?s also useful for students and researchers to examine issues in terms of competing systems associated with institutional forces and change. For example, in addressing climate change, students and researchers can examine the intersections between ecological, economic, agriculture, legal, political, urban design/housing, transportation, schooling, health care, military, media, and scientific research as systems related to climate change. For example, the agribusiness agricultural system of monocrop/beef production is a major contributor to CO2 emissions related to climate change. Students can also examine examples of legal and political efforts as systems associated with addressing climate change issues , for example, a group of students in Oregon who have a lawsuit in federal courts suing the U. S. Government for failing to address climate change. >> >> >> Richard Beach, Professor Emeritus of English Education, University of Minnesota >> rbeach@umn.edu >> Websites: Digital writing , Media literacy , Teaching literature , Identity-focused ELA Teaching , Common Core State Standards , Apps for literacy learning , Teaching about climate change >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Feb 4, 2017, at 11:55 AM, mike cole wrote: >>> >>> Richard and Alfredo >>> >>> I keep coming back to the question of how we, as academics, located in the >>> system of higher education, researchers on the social creation of social >>> inequality, ought to be re-orienting our research in light of the >>> re-surrection of global nationalist/populism. >>> >>> So for me, its important to focus on concrete exemplars that might unloose >>> this potential: "shock events' possibility not only for separating but for >>> actually offering opportunities to re-organize and unite priorly separated >>> forces." >>> >>> In a recent discussion at LCHC, this topic came up in terms of how to >>> connect our research and our undergraduates to the life of the communities >>> whose children do not make it to the university. Such an effort requires >>> coordination of a variety of dis-articulated groups with a common concern >>> about socially and culturally marginalized, econonomically stressed, >>> communities. >>> >>> The challenge of engaging successfully in such work and satisfying the >>> academic production requirements of their academic personnel committees >>> seems a major challenge. >>> >>> Positive suggestions of how to meet this challenge would be warmly accepted. >>> >>> mike >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 10:33 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks for sharing Richard, I had seen Richardson's analysis online. In >>>> fact the amount of analyses in the media that this crisis is generating is >>>> overwhelming, but also very encouraging and gives hopes towards >>>> Richardson's notes on shock events' possibility not only for separating but >>>> for actually offering opportunities to re-organize and unite priorly >>>> separated forces. I wonder, if Lincoln managed without the web and the >>>> i-phone, will it happen today? >>>> >>>> Alfredo >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>> on behalf of Richard Beach >>>> Sent: 03 February 2017 00:28 >>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Bannon's actions as "shock event" >>>> >>>> Here?s an interesting analysis of Bannon?s actions on banning immigrants >>>> that?s related to Bakhtin?s notion of ?eventness? and Roth?s (2014) >>>> analysis of ?events-in-the-making? associated with the experience of >>>> unfolding events with unpredictable consequences. We still don?t know what >>>> the fallout will be from attempts to implement this ban. >>>> >>>>> From Heather Richardson, professor of History at Boston College: >>>> >>>> "I don't like to talk about politics on Facebook-- political history is my >>>> job, after all, and you are my friends-- but there is an important >>>> non-partisan point to make today. >>>> >>>> What Bannon is doing, most dramatically with last night's ban on >>>> immigration from seven predominantly Muslim countries-- is creating what is >>>> known as a "shock event." >>>> >>>> Such an event is unexpected and confusing and throws a society into chaos. >>>> People scramble to react to the event, usually along some fault line that >>>> those responsible for the event can widen by claiming that they alone know >>>> how to restore order. >>>> >>>> When opponents speak out, the authors of the shock event call them >>>> enemies. As society reels and tempers run high, those responsible for the >>>> shock event perform a sleight of hand to achieve their real goal, a goal >>>> they know to be hugely unpopular, but from which everyone has been >>>> distracted as they fight over the initial event. There is no longer >>>> concerted opposition to the real goal; opposition divides along the >>>> partisan lines established by the shock event. >>>> >>>> Last night's Executive Order has all the hallmarks of a shock event. It >>>> was not reviewed by any governmental agencies or lawyers before it was >>>> released, and counterterrorism experts insist they did not ask for it. >>>> People charged with enforcing it got no instructions about how to do so. >>>> Courts immediately have declared parts of it unconstitutional, but border >>>> police in some airports are refusing to stop enforcing it. >>>> >>>> Predictably, chaos has followed and tempers are hot. >>>> >>>> My point today is this: unless you are the person setting it up, it is in >>>> no one's interest to play the shock event game. It is designed explicitly >>>> to divide people who might otherwise come together so they cannot stand >>>> against something its authors think they won't like. >>>> >>>> I don't know what Bannon is up to-- although I have some guesses-- but >>>> because I know Bannon's ideas well, I am positive that there is not a >>>> single person whom I consider a friend on either side of the aisle-- and my >>>> friends range pretty widely-- who will benefit from whatever it is. >>>> >>>> If the shock event strategy works, though, many of you will blame each >>>> other, rather than Bannon, for the fallout. And the country will have been >>>> tricked into accepting their real goal. >>>> >>>> But because shock events destabilize a society, they can also be used >>>> positively. We do not have to respond along old fault lines. We could just >>>> as easily reorganize into a different pattern that threatens the people who >>>> sparked the event. >>>> >>>> A successful shock event depends on speed and chaos because it requires >>>> knee-jerk reactions so that people divide along established lines. This, >>>> for example, is how Confederate leaders railroaded the initial southern >>>> states out of the Union. >>>> >>>> If people realize they are being played, though, they can reach across old >>>> lines and reorganize to challenge the leaders who are pulling the strings. >>>> This was Lincoln's strategy when he joined together Whigs, Democrats, >>>> Free-Soilers, anti-Nebraska voters, and nativists into the new Republican >>>> Party to stand against the Slave Power. >>>> >>>> Five years before, such a coalition would have been unimaginable. Members >>>> of those groups agreed on very little other than that they wanted all >>>> Americans to have equal economic opportunity. Once they began to work >>>> together to promote a fair economic system, though, they found much common >>>> ground. They ended up rededicating the nation to a "government of the >>>> people, by the people, and for the people." >>>> >>>> Confederate leaders and Lincoln both knew about the political potential of >>>> a shock event. As we are in the midst of one, it seems worth noting that >>>> Lincoln seemed to have the better idea about how to use it." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Richard Beach, Professor Emeritus of English Education, University of >>>> Minnesota >>>> rbeach@umn.edu >>>> Websites: Digital writing , Media >>>> literacy , Teaching literature >>>> , Identity-focused ELA Teaching < >>>> http://identities.pbworks.com/>, Common Core State Standards < >>>> http://englishccss.pbworks.com/>, Apps for literacy learning < >>>> http://usingipads.pbworks.com/>, Teaching about climate change < >>>> http://climatechangeela.pbworks.com/> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Jan 26, 2017, at 10:16 AM, Helena Worthen >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On the subject of dividing, here is an ugly snapshot of the wedge >>>> getting driven in ? the building trades unions finding common ground with >>>> Trump as a ?developer.? The other deeply regressive unions are the prison >>>> guards and police. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2017/01/building-trades-allow- >>>> themselves-to-be-played-like-fools >>>>> >>>>> I attend monthly discussion groups in the Bay Area organized around >>>> readings from the magazine Jacobin. I like these because the other >>>> participants are mostly 20s and early 30s, techies or grad students. Very >>>> smart, very alert, very well-read and articulate. They are stamped, >>>> however, with evidence of never having studied history. (Philosophy, yes ? >>>> which is interesting.) To many of them, the building trades and police >>>> unions are typical of the political position of labor unions. >>>>> >>>>> So they see LIUNA leaders meeting with Trump and smear the whole labor >>>> movement with it. >>>>> >>>>> H >>>>> >>>>> Helena Worthen >>>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com >>>>> Berkeley, CA 94707 >>>>> Blog about US and Viet Nam: helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Jan 26, 2017, at 9:26 AM, < >>>> lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes, >>>>>> Today, the strategy of dividing, leaving us in disarray, is how i >>>> experience the deluge of draconian executive ?orders? that leaves me >>>> spinning. >>>>>> Leaves me questioning where to start. >>>>>> >>>>>> Exposing the disarray on the other side in concrete ways (Koch vs >>>> Mercer) is a valuable addition to our ways of responding. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my Windows 10 phone >>>>>> >>>>>> From: Peg Griffin >>>>>> Sent: January 26, 2017 8:57 AM >>>>>> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred to >>>>>> >>>>>> At this point, Larry, I'm content to rise to as much concrete as I can >>>> get near, until at least the late spring, to get at ideas and >>>> contradictions, to keep moving and supporting so I'm in enough places to >>>> and bits of the movement to find the productive places for me. >>>>>> A mini-mission of mine right now is to get people to recognize the >>>> divide among the big money folks in the US -- the Mercer father daughter >>>> beat the Koch brothers within the Republican moneyed. >>>>>> The other side works hard to divide us and take advantage of the >>>> disarray, so why not pay attention when they are dividing themselves! >>>>>> No use being a day late and a dollar short about who's who! >>>>>> Maybe it's just that my great uncle was in vaudeville and showed us >>>> three yammering nieces a super card game called "52 pick-up." It's not too >>>> good too often for too long but everyone once in a while it's not a bad >>>> game. >>>>>> PG >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >>>> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of lpscholar2@gmail.com >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 11:02 AM >>>>>> To: Peg Griffin; 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred to >>>>>> >>>>>> Peg, Mike, >>>>>> Reading these two articles on BigData and remembering how funding will >>>> be given to academic research that slots into being verified (or negated) >>>> through BigData is profoundly disturbing and leaves me with a sense of >>>> inertia at the scope of the alienation involved in this manipulation. >>>>>> >>>>>> Using Simmel?s back and forth notion of the relation of (distance and >>>> intimacy) and finding the proper ratio depending on the events occuring >>>> then the proper relation between distance and intimacy will be shifting in >>>> scope in each historical era. >>>>>> Will our response to the vast distance incarnated through BIgData >>>> require intimate responses as counterpoint?? >>>>>> >>>>>> If this is LIKE the 1930?s, do we have any answers from the past that >>>> give glimmers of a way forward that can be responsive at scale to the >>>> distancing of BigData? >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my Windows 10 phone >>>>>> >>>>>> From: Peg Griffin >>>>>> Sent: January 25, 2017 5:39 PM >>>>>> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred to >>>>>> >>>>>> And here's a Guardian story https://www.theguardian.com/ >>>> us-news/2016/nov/23/donald-trump-cambridge-analytica-steve-bannon for >>>> those interested in the post-election ties among the Mercers (father and >>>> daughter), Bannon, Conway, and Cambridge Analytica. >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >>>> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Peg Griffin >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2017 7:43 PM >>>>>> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred to >>>>>> >>>>>> Hee hee hee, Mike Cole, you rogue! This is the official Cambridge >>>> Analytica site https://cambridgeanalytica.org/ But Mike direct you to a >>>> meatier sit about it! >>>>>> Peg >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >>>> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2017 1:41 PM >>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred to >>>>>> >>>>>> https://antidotezine.com/2017/01/22/trump-knows-you/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >> > > From wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com Sat Feb 4 17:22:01 2017 From: wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com (Wolff-Michael Roth) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 17:22:01 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Playworlds, Performance, Perezhivanie, Apophasis ... and TRUMP'S speech! In-Reply-To: References: <5893695b.c32f630a.3d640.41ee@mx.google.com> <1486189210098.72503@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: When you have a question about a concept, look up where it is defined. Michael Heidegger, 1996, pp. 28?29 Rather, logos as speech really means *deloun*, to make manifest "what is being talked about" in speech. Aristotle explicates this function of speech more precisely as *apophainesthai*. Logos lets something be seen (*phainesthai*), namely what is being talked about, and indeed for the speaker (who serves as the medium) or for those who speak with each other. Speech "lets us see," from itself, *apo*. . . , what is being talked about. In speech (*apophansis*), insofar as it is genuine, what is said should be derived from what is being talked about. In this way spoken commu- nication, in what it says, makes manifest what it is talking about and thus makes it accessible to another. Such is the structure of logos as apophansis. Not every "speech" suits *this* mode of making manifest, in the sense of letting something be seen by indicating it. For example, requesting (*euche*) also makes something manifest, but in a different way. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wolff-Michael Roth, Lansdowne Professor Applied Cognitive Science MacLaurin Building A567 University of Victoria Victoria, BC, V8P 5C2 http://web.uvic.ca/~mroth New book: *The Mathematics of Mathematics * On Sat, Feb 4, 2017 at 4:50 PM, HENRY SHONERD wrote: > Alfredo, > Would the attached link be an example of apophasis? I hope the link gets > you the cartoon from Daily Kos on Feb 1, which illustrates the "cognitive > dissonance of Trump supporters?. > > http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/2/1/1628099/- > Cartoon-Trump-supporters-cognitive-dissonance?detail= > email&link_id=15&can_id=d9825820685b26308482b9b5c5bb09 > 5d&source=email-trump-reportedly-tells-female-staffers-to-dress-like- > womentwitter-says-fun&email_referrer=trump-reportedly- > tells-female-staffers-to-dress-like-womentwitter-says- > fun___162460&email_subject=news-organizations-and- > festivities-begin-pulling-out-of-annual-correspondents-dinner-with-trump < > http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/2/1/1628099/- > Cartoon-Trump-supporters-cognitive-dissonance?detail= > email&link_id=15&can_id=d9825820685b26308482b9b5c5bb09 > 5d&source=email-trump-reportedly-tells-female-staffers-to-dress-like- > womentwitter-says-fun&email_referrer=trump-reportedly- > tells-female-staffers-to-dress-like-womentwitter-says- > fun___162460&email_subject=news-organizations-and- > festivities-begin-pulling-out-of-annual-correspondents-dinner-with-trump> > > Henry > > > > On Feb 3, 2017, at 11:20 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > wrote: > > > > Larry, > > I am familiar with the term apophantic (the auto-spelling keeps > correcting the term to "hipophatic" which is the term you use) as it > appears in Heidegger. Not sure now about the connection with Vygotsky that > you are after; it seems quite of a complex thread to weave across, at least > in the xmca format. > > > > But!, since I wanted to make sure we were using the same term, I did > google it and, guess what I found? An example of apophasis as used by > TRUMP!: > > > > In 2015, Trump said of fellow Republican presidential candidate and > former Hewlett-Packard CEO Carly Fiorina, "I promised I would not say that > she ran Hewlett-Packard into the ground, that she laid off tens of > thousands of people and she got viciously fired. I said I will not say it, > so I will not say it."In 2016, he tweeted of journalist Megyn Kelly, ?I > refuse to call [her] a bimbo, because that would not be politically > correct." > > > > Here is the link to the full article from the Huffington post: > > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-rhetorical-device_us_ > 56c358cbe4b0c3c55052b32b > > > > Alfredo > > ________________________________________ > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of lpscholar2@gmail.com > > Sent: 02 February 2017 18:15 > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Playworlds, Performance, Perezhivanie, Apophasis > > > > Beth and Monica explore the phenomena occurring in playworlds generating > perezhivanie. > > > > Playworlds are performance worlds and these worlds may be exploring the > relation of ?unity? and ?difference?. > > > > Another term that may have relevance when Beth and Monica refer to > negating the negation is the operation of ?apophasis?. > > William Frank (On What Cannot Be Said) describes the apophatic : > > > > *In apophasis, which empties language of all positive content, absolute > difference cannot be distinguished from absolute unity, even though the > respective discourses of difference and unity nominally stand at the > antipodes. BOTH configurations, unity and difference, are exposed as > relatively arbitrary and, in the end, equally inadequate schemas for > articulating what cannot be said. (Franke) > > > > Claire Chambers in her book (Performance Studies and Negative > Epistemology) comments on the above Franke citation : > > > > *If unity and difference cannot be distinguished from one another (we > cannot KNOW what makes them distinct), then it is impossible to determine > what either ?is? ? meaning that knowing and being, epistemology and > ontology, are also impossible to distinguish from one another.(Claire > Chambers Chapter 1) > > > > I am not sure how far to go with this theme of : Negating the negation? > > I hear this theme in playworlds. > > > > If this seems relevant, i can post the first chapter of Claire Chambers > book. I will just mention that Vygotsky?s Judaic childhood and adolescence > would have encountered this apophatic ?tradition?. > > Enough for one probe or possible pivot? > > > > > > > > Sent from my Windows 10 phone > > > > From joeg4us@roadrunner.com Sat Feb 4 22:44:03 2017 From: joeg4us@roadrunner.com (Joseph Gilbert) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 22:44:03 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Playworlds, Performance, Perezhivanie, Apophasis ... and TRUMP'S speech! In-Reply-To: <1486189210098.72503@iped.uio.no> References: <5893695b.c32f630a.3d640.41ee@mx.google.com> <1486189210098.72503@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: Unsubsccribe > On Feb 3, 2017, at 10:20 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > > Larry, > I am familiar with the term apophantic (the auto-spelling keeps correcting the term to "hipophatic" which is the term you use) as it appears in Heidegger. Not sure now about the connection with Vygotsky that you are after; it seems quite of a complex thread to weave across, at least in the xmca format. > > But!, since I wanted to make sure we were using the same term, I did google it and, guess what I found? An example of apophasis as used by TRUMP!: > > In 2015, Trump said of fellow Republican presidential candidate and former Hewlett-Packard CEO Carly Fiorina, "I promised I would not say that she ran Hewlett-Packard into the ground, that she laid off tens of thousands of people and she got viciously fired. I said I will not say it, so I will not say it."In 2016, he tweeted of journalist Megyn Kelly, ?I refuse to call [her] a bimbo, because that would not be politically correct." > > Here is the link to the full article from the Huffington post: > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-rhetorical-device_us_56c358cbe4b0c3c55052b32b > > Alfredo > ________________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of lpscholar2@gmail.com > Sent: 02 February 2017 18:15 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Playworlds, Performance, Perezhivanie, Apophasis > > Beth and Monica explore the phenomena occurring in playworlds generating perezhivanie. > > Playworlds are performance worlds and these worlds may be exploring the relation of ?unity? and ?difference?. > > Another term that may have relevance when Beth and Monica refer to negating the negation is the operation of ?apophasis?. > William Frank (On What Cannot Be Said) describes the apophatic : > > *In apophasis, which empties language of all positive content, absolute difference cannot be distinguished from absolute unity, even though the respective discourses of difference and unity nominally stand at the antipodes. BOTH configurations, unity and difference, are exposed as relatively arbitrary and, in the end, equally inadequate schemas for articulating what cannot be said. (Franke) > > Claire Chambers in her book (Performance Studies and Negative Epistemology) comments on the above Franke citation : > > *If unity and difference cannot be distinguished from one another (we cannot KNOW what makes them distinct), then it is impossible to determine what either ?is? ? meaning that knowing and being, epistemology and ontology, are also impossible to distinguish from one another.(Claire Chambers Chapter 1) > > I am not sure how far to go with this theme of : Negating the negation? > I hear this theme in playworlds. > > If this seems relevant, i can post the first chapter of Claire Chambers book. I will just mention that Vygotsky?s Judaic childhood and adolescence would have encountered this apophatic ?tradition?. > Enough for one probe or possible pivot? > > > > Sent from my Windows 10 phone > From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Sat Feb 4 22:49:05 2017 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 06:49:05 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Playworlds, Performance, Perezhivanie, Apophasis ... and TRUMP'S speech! In-Reply-To: References: <5893695b.c32f630a.3d640.41ee@mx.google.com> <1486189210098.72503@iped.uio.no> , Message-ID: <1486277344127.10046@iped.uio.no> Henry, I guess for the cartoon to be about apophansis, Trump's speech would have to present itself to Trump's supporters as two opposed things *simultaneously*, but then perhaps this no longer would be *genuine* speech, in the sense Heidegger's treatment of Aristotle suggests. Trump's speech would be rather *deceiving,* i.e., "putting something in front of something else ... and thereby passing it off *as* something it is *not*". Cognitive dissonance seems to imply there is some processing between the said (logos) and its showing of itself *as* something, which would not fit well Heidegger... In any case, as the cartoon nicely illustrates, Trumps' supporters may be having a hard time too, it can't be easy. Alfredo ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Wolff-Michael Roth Sent: 05 February 2017 02:22 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Cc: Wolff-Michael Roth Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Playworlds, Performance, Perezhivanie, Apophasis ... and TRUMP'S speech! When you have a question about a concept, look up where it is defined. Michael Heidegger, 1996, pp. 28?29 Rather, logos as speech really means *deloun*, to make manifest "what is being talked about" in speech. Aristotle explicates this function of speech more precisely as *apophainesthai*. Logos lets something be seen (*phainesthai*), namely what is being talked about, and indeed for the speaker (who serves as the medium) or for those who speak with each other. Speech "lets us see," from itself, *apo*. . . , what is being talked about. In speech (*apophansis*), insofar as it is genuine, what is said should be derived from what is being talked about. In this way spoken commu- nication, in what it says, makes manifest what it is talking about and thus makes it accessible to another. Such is the structure of logos as apophansis. Not every "speech" suits *this* mode of making manifest, in the sense of letting something be seen by indicating it. For example, requesting (*euche*) also makes something manifest, but in a different way. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wolff-Michael Roth, Lansdowne Professor Applied Cognitive Science MacLaurin Building A567 University of Victoria Victoria, BC, V8P 5C2 http://web.uvic.ca/~mroth New book: *The Mathematics of Mathematics * On Sat, Feb 4, 2017 at 4:50 PM, HENRY SHONERD wrote: > Alfredo, > Would the attached link be an example of apophasis? I hope the link gets > you the cartoon from Daily Kos on Feb 1, which illustrates the "cognitive > dissonance of Trump supporters?. > > http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/2/1/1628099/- > Cartoon-Trump-supporters-cognitive-dissonance?detail= > email&link_id=15&can_id=d9825820685b26308482b9b5c5bb09 > 5d&source=email-trump-reportedly-tells-female-staffers-to-dress-like- > womentwitter-says-fun&email_referrer=trump-reportedly- > tells-female-staffers-to-dress-like-womentwitter-says- > fun___162460&email_subject=news-organizations-and- > festivities-begin-pulling-out-of-annual-correspondents-dinner-with-trump < > http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/2/1/1628099/- > Cartoon-Trump-supporters-cognitive-dissonance?detail= > email&link_id=15&can_id=d9825820685b26308482b9b5c5bb09 > 5d&source=email-trump-reportedly-tells-female-staffers-to-dress-like- > womentwitter-says-fun&email_referrer=trump-reportedly- > tells-female-staffers-to-dress-like-womentwitter-says- > fun___162460&email_subject=news-organizations-and- > festivities-begin-pulling-out-of-annual-correspondents-dinner-with-trump> > > Henry > > > > On Feb 3, 2017, at 11:20 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > wrote: > > > > Larry, > > I am familiar with the term apophantic (the auto-spelling keeps > correcting the term to "hipophatic" which is the term you use) as it > appears in Heidegger. Not sure now about the connection with Vygotsky that > you are after; it seems quite of a complex thread to weave across, at least > in the xmca format. > > > > But!, since I wanted to make sure we were using the same term, I did > google it and, guess what I found? An example of apophasis as used by > TRUMP!: > > > > In 2015, Trump said of fellow Republican presidential candidate and > former Hewlett-Packard CEO Carly Fiorina, "I promised I would not say that > she ran Hewlett-Packard into the ground, that she laid off tens of > thousands of people and she got viciously fired. I said I will not say it, > so I will not say it."In 2016, he tweeted of journalist Megyn Kelly, ?I > refuse to call [her] a bimbo, because that would not be politically > correct." > > > > Here is the link to the full article from the Huffington post: > > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-rhetorical-device_us_ > 56c358cbe4b0c3c55052b32b > > > > Alfredo > > ________________________________________ > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of lpscholar2@gmail.com > > Sent: 02 February 2017 18:15 > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Playworlds, Performance, Perezhivanie, Apophasis > > > > Beth and Monica explore the phenomena occurring in playworlds generating > perezhivanie. > > > > Playworlds are performance worlds and these worlds may be exploring the > relation of ?unity? and ?difference?. > > > > Another term that may have relevance when Beth and Monica refer to > negating the negation is the operation of ?apophasis?. > > William Frank (On What Cannot Be Said) describes the apophatic : > > > > *In apophasis, which empties language of all positive content, absolute > difference cannot be distinguished from absolute unity, even though the > respective discourses of difference and unity nominally stand at the > antipodes. BOTH configurations, unity and difference, are exposed as > relatively arbitrary and, in the end, equally inadequate schemas for > articulating what cannot be said. (Franke) > > > > Claire Chambers in her book (Performance Studies and Negative > Epistemology) comments on the above Franke citation : > > > > *If unity and difference cannot be distinguished from one another (we > cannot KNOW what makes them distinct), then it is impossible to determine > what either ?is? ? meaning that knowing and being, epistemology and > ontology, are also impossible to distinguish from one another.(Claire > Chambers Chapter 1) > > > > I am not sure how far to go with this theme of : Negating the negation? > > I hear this theme in playworlds. > > > > If this seems relevant, i can post the first chapter of Claire Chambers > book. I will just mention that Vygotsky?s Judaic childhood and adolescence > would have encountered this apophatic ?tradition?. > > Enough for one probe or possible pivot? > > > > > > > > Sent from my Windows 10 phone > > > > From ablunden@mira.net Sat Feb 4 23:52:32 2017 From: ablunden@mira.net (Andy Blunden) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 18:52:32 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Playworlds, Performance, Perezhivanie, Apophasis ... and TRUMP'S speech! In-Reply-To: References: <5893695b.c32f630a.3d640.41ee@mx.google.com> <1486189210098.72503@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: <838a8d3c-2559-3984-64e3-e3cf8bd98266@mira.net> Bruce Jones' email is bouncing. Anyone know what's going on there? Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden http://home.mira.net/~andyOn 5/02/2017 5:44 PM, Joseph Gilbert wrote: > Unsubsccribe > From theresahorstman@gmail.com Sun Feb 5 06:34:50 2017 From: theresahorstman@gmail.com (Theresa Horstman) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 06:34:50 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: actions within academia In-Reply-To: <9432F663-5CCE-4D35-9FAB-2235D83A5044@gmail.com> References: <003601d2776d$2cc0a910$8641fb30$@att.net> <003a01d27774$a0aeaf00$e20c0d00$@att.net> <588a1d8b.c280630a.7710d.bdd6@mx.google.com> <002401d277f4$d8da5ac0$8a8f1040$@att.net> <588a317a.1121620a.8e1ba.d866@mx.google.com> <71E849D1-5353-4DDA-BA83-F1DF29820355@gmail.com> <88AB2869-5898-4F23-BB2E-6CCD490C96F7@umn.edu> <1486190026596.25381@iped.uio.no> <563DC5C2-5A29-4F62-9444-8D6B1D275857@umn.edu> <034D32A2-D0A6-455E-8580-FAFE881A108A@gmail.com> <9432F663-5CCE-4D35-9FAB-2235D83A5044@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello all, Here are some additional resources that also might be helpful: Wall of Us sends out 2-3 weekly action items. https://www.wall-of-us.org Weekly action items for members of all political parties. https://jenniferhofmann.com/home/weekly-action-checklist-democrats-independents-republicans-conscience/ In coordination with Sleeping Giants (@slpng_giants), twitter users can call out companies advertising on Brietbart. http://adstrike.us Sister District coordinates constituents from blue districts with constituents in their nearest red districts. https://www.sisterdistrict.com Theresa On Sat, Feb 4, 2017 at 5:10 PM, Helena Worthen wrote: > Actions within academia? Following the advice of thinking globally, acting > locally, don?t forget the third kind of action within academia: paying > attention to the faculty workforce itself, which is has been deteriorating > into a gig economy for the last 30 plus years. If there is organizing going > on among adjuncts on your campus, seek it out and support it; if there is a > campus coalition of university-wide unions (which will mean secretaries, > techies, landscapers, food workers, transportation and custodial workers as > well as faculty of all levels), attend meetings and be supportive; in > faculty meetings, insist on adjuncts/lecturers be treated equally. If a new > kind of program gets floated (for example, an online degree) ask, ?Who is > doing this work? What are their working conditions?? > > It?s amazing what a strong workforce-wide coalition can do to slow down > the construction of luxury rec facilities and the closure of language or > ethnic studies programs. > > Third kind meaning in addition to doing research or designing curriculum > that has progressive content or protecting structures of opportunity that > reduce inequality. > > H > > Helena Worthen > helenaworthen@gmail.com > Berkeley, CA 94707 > Blog about US and Viet Nam: helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > > > > On Feb 4, 2017, at 4:35 PM, HENRY SHONERD wrote: > > > > Richard, > > Many thanks for this. What great resources! Medaiting artefacts. They > come at a good time for my wife and me as far as what needs to be done in > the larger social domain. Distributed agency at different scales. Within > each circle we need trust and respect of one another. That really resonates > all through. I like the metaphor of electro-magnetic field. It was in the > title of my letter honoring Vera in the book Bob Lake and Cathrene Connery > edited. (Shout out to Bob and Cathrene!) Part of Vera?s magic circle we > are. So the circles are across generations. (Shout out to Vera!) Such cool > people on the chat. But warm blooded. (Shout out to Andy!) > > Henry > > > >> On Feb 4, 2017, at 2:46 PM, Richard Beach wrote: > >> > >> Mike, regarding your call for action on campuses, my concern is that > people may accept a passive stance as individuals assuming that they lack > agency to make change as opposed to achieving distributed agency (Enfield, > 2013) through exposure to examples of collective activism so that they > achieve agency through co-action with others. Students and researchers > could examine examples of current organized efforts from a CHAT perspective > in terms of use of certain tools and norms to achieve certain > objects/outcomes, for example: > >> > >> - Our Revolution national organization website < > https://ourrevolution.com/> > >> > >> - Indivisible: A Practical Guide for Resisting the Trump Agenda < > https://www.indivisibleguide.com/web/>: Former congressional staffers > reveal best practices for making Congress listen > >> > >> - Courage Campaign : A California-based > organization of 1.3 million members promoting progressive agendas > >> > >> - Swing Left : Targets swing districts to > promote candidates for the 2018 election. > >> Consistent with a CHAT perspective, to avoid students framing the > political space in individualist terms?as Trump does in his attacks on > critics, it?s also useful for students and researchers to examine issues in > terms of competing systems associated with institutional forces and change. > For example, in addressing climate change, students and researchers can > examine the intersections between ecological, economic, agriculture, legal, > political, urban design/housing, transportation, schooling, health care, > military, media, and scientific research as systems related to climate > change. For example, the agribusiness agricultural system of monocrop/beef > production is a major contributor to CO2 emissions related to climate > change. Students can also examine examples of legal and political efforts > as systems associated with addressing climate change issues < > http://climatechangeela.pbworks.com/w/page/103010995/ > Chapter%209%20%C2%A0Links>, for example, a group of students in Oregon < > http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/13/opinions/climate-kids- > federal-lawsuit/index.html> who have a lawsuit in federal courts suing > the U. S. Government for failing to address climate change. > >> > >> > >> Richard Beach, Professor Emeritus of English Education, University of > Minnesota > >> rbeach@umn.edu > >> Websites: Digital writing , Media > literacy , Teaching literature > , Identity-focused ELA Teaching < > http://identities.pbworks.com/>, Common Core State Standards < > http://englishccss.pbworks.com/>, Apps for literacy learning < > http://usingipads.pbworks.com/>, Teaching about climate change < > http://climatechangeela.pbworks.com/> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>> On Feb 4, 2017, at 11:55 AM, mike cole wrote: > >>> > >>> Richard and Alfredo > >>> > >>> I keep coming back to the question of how we, as academics, located in > the > >>> system of higher education, researchers on the social creation of > social > >>> inequality, ought to be re-orienting our research in light of the > >>> re-surrection of global nationalist/populism. > >>> > >>> So for me, its important to focus on concrete exemplars that might > unloose > >>> this potential: "shock events' possibility not only for separating but > for > >>> actually offering opportunities to re-organize and unite priorly > separated > >>> forces." > >>> > >>> In a recent discussion at LCHC, this topic came up in terms of how to > >>> connect our research and our undergraduates to the life of the > communities > >>> whose children do not make it to the university. Such an effort > requires > >>> coordination of a variety of dis-articulated groups with a common > concern > >>> about socially and culturally marginalized, econonomically stressed, > >>> communities. > >>> > >>> The challenge of engaging successfully in such work and satisfying the > >>> academic production requirements of their academic personnel committees > >>> seems a major challenge. > >>> > >>> Positive suggestions of how to meet this challenge would be warmly > accepted. > >>> > >>> mike > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 10:33 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Thanks for sharing Richard, I had seen Richardson's analysis online. > In > >>>> fact the amount of analyses in the media that this crisis is > generating is > >>>> overwhelming, but also very encouraging and gives hopes towards > >>>> Richardson's notes on shock events' possibility not only for > separating but > >>>> for actually offering opportunities to re-organize and unite priorly > >>>> separated forces. I wonder, if Lincoln managed without the web and the > >>>> i-phone, will it happen today? > >>>> > >>>> Alfredo > >>>> ________________________________________ > >>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu edu> > >>>> on behalf of Richard Beach > >>>> Sent: 03 February 2017 00:28 > >>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Bannon's actions as "shock event" > >>>> > >>>> Here?s an interesting analysis of Bannon?s actions on banning > immigrants > >>>> that?s related to Bakhtin?s notion of ?eventness? and Roth?s (2014) > >>>> analysis of ?events-in-the-making? associated with the experience of > >>>> unfolding events with unpredictable consequences. We still don?t know > what > >>>> the fallout will be from attempts to implement this ban. > >>>> > >>>>> From Heather Richardson, professor of History at Boston College: > >>>> > >>>> "I don't like to talk about politics on Facebook-- political history > is my > >>>> job, after all, and you are my friends-- but there is an important > >>>> non-partisan point to make today. > >>>> > >>>> What Bannon is doing, most dramatically with last night's ban on > >>>> immigration from seven predominantly Muslim countries-- is creating > what is > >>>> known as a "shock event." > >>>> > >>>> Such an event is unexpected and confusing and throws a society into > chaos. > >>>> People scramble to react to the event, usually along some fault line > that > >>>> those responsible for the event can widen by claiming that they alone > know > >>>> how to restore order. > >>>> > >>>> When opponents speak out, the authors of the shock event call them > >>>> enemies. As society reels and tempers run high, those responsible for > the > >>>> shock event perform a sleight of hand to achieve their real goal, a > goal > >>>> they know to be hugely unpopular, but from which everyone has been > >>>> distracted as they fight over the initial event. There is no longer > >>>> concerted opposition to the real goal; opposition divides along the > >>>> partisan lines established by the shock event. > >>>> > >>>> Last night's Executive Order has all the hallmarks of a shock event. > It > >>>> was not reviewed by any governmental agencies or lawyers before it was > >>>> released, and counterterrorism experts insist they did not ask for it. > >>>> People charged with enforcing it got no instructions about how to do > so. > >>>> Courts immediately have declared parts of it unconstitutional, but > border > >>>> police in some airports are refusing to stop enforcing it. > >>>> > >>>> Predictably, chaos has followed and tempers are hot. > >>>> > >>>> My point today is this: unless you are the person setting it up, it > is in > >>>> no one's interest to play the shock event game. It is designed > explicitly > >>>> to divide people who might otherwise come together so they cannot > stand > >>>> against something its authors think they won't like. > >>>> > >>>> I don't know what Bannon is up to-- although I have some guesses-- but > >>>> because I know Bannon's ideas well, I am positive that there is not a > >>>> single person whom I consider a friend on either side of the aisle-- > and my > >>>> friends range pretty widely-- who will benefit from whatever it is. > >>>> > >>>> If the shock event strategy works, though, many of you will blame each > >>>> other, rather than Bannon, for the fallout. And the country will have > been > >>>> tricked into accepting their real goal. > >>>> > >>>> But because shock events destabilize a society, they can also be used > >>>> positively. We do not have to respond along old fault lines. We could > just > >>>> as easily reorganize into a different pattern that threatens the > people who > >>>> sparked the event. > >>>> > >>>> A successful shock event depends on speed and chaos because it > requires > >>>> knee-jerk reactions so that people divide along established lines. > This, > >>>> for example, is how Confederate leaders railroaded the initial > southern > >>>> states out of the Union. > >>>> > >>>> If people realize they are being played, though, they can reach > across old > >>>> lines and reorganize to challenge the leaders who are pulling the > strings. > >>>> This was Lincoln's strategy when he joined together Whigs, Democrats, > >>>> Free-Soilers, anti-Nebraska voters, and nativists into the new > Republican > >>>> Party to stand against the Slave Power. > >>>> > >>>> Five years before, such a coalition would have been unimaginable. > Members > >>>> of those groups agreed on very little other than that they wanted all > >>>> Americans to have equal economic opportunity. Once they began to work > >>>> together to promote a fair economic system, though, they found much > common > >>>> ground. They ended up rededicating the nation to a "government of the > >>>> people, by the people, and for the people." > >>>> > >>>> Confederate leaders and Lincoln both knew about the political > potential of > >>>> a shock event. As we are in the midst of one, it seems worth noting > that > >>>> Lincoln seemed to have the better idea about how to use it." > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Richard Beach, Professor Emeritus of English Education, University of > >>>> Minnesota > >>>> rbeach@umn.edu > >>>> Websites: Digital writing , Media > >>>> literacy , Teaching > literature > >>>> , Identity-focused ELA > Teaching < > >>>> http://identities.pbworks.com/>, Common Core State Standards < > >>>> http://englishccss.pbworks.com/>, Apps for literacy learning < > >>>> http://usingipads.pbworks.com/>, Teaching about climate change < > >>>> http://climatechangeela.pbworks.com/> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> On Jan 26, 2017, at 10:16 AM, Helena Worthen < > helenaworthen@gmail.com> > >>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> On the subject of dividing, here is an ugly snapshot of the wedge > >>>> getting driven in ? the building trades unions finding common ground > with > >>>> Trump as a ?developer.? The other deeply regressive unions are the > prison > >>>> guards and police. > >>>>> > >>>>> http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2017/01/building-trades-allow- > >>>> themselves-to-be-played-like-fools > >>>>> > >>>>> I attend monthly discussion groups in the Bay Area organized around > >>>> readings from the magazine Jacobin. I like these because the other > >>>> participants are mostly 20s and early 30s, techies or grad students. > Very > >>>> smart, very alert, very well-read and articulate. They are stamped, > >>>> however, with evidence of never having studied history. (Philosophy, > yes ? > >>>> which is interesting.) To many of them, the building trades and police > >>>> unions are typical of the political position of labor unions. > >>>>> > >>>>> So they see LIUNA leaders meeting with Trump and smear the whole > labor > >>>> movement with it. > >>>>> > >>>>> H > >>>>> > >>>>> Helena Worthen > >>>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com > >>>>> Berkeley, CA 94707 > >>>>> Blog about US and Viet Nam: helenaworthen.wordpress.com > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> On Jan 26, 2017, at 9:26 AM, < > >>>> lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Yes, > >>>>>> Today, the strategy of dividing, leaving us in disarray, is how i > >>>> experience the deluge of draconian executive ?orders? that leaves me > >>>> spinning. > >>>>>> Leaves me questioning where to start. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Exposing the disarray on the other side in concrete ways (Koch vs > >>>> Mercer) is a valuable addition to our ways of responding. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Sent from my Windows 10 phone > >>>>>> > >>>>>> From: Peg Griffin > >>>>>> Sent: January 26, 2017 8:57 AM > >>>>>> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' > >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg > referred to > >>>>>> > >>>>>> At this point, Larry, I'm content to rise to as much concrete as I > can > >>>> get near, until at least the late spring, to get at ideas and > >>>> contradictions, to keep moving and supporting so I'm in enough places > to > >>>> and bits of the movement to find the productive places for me. > >>>>>> A mini-mission of mine right now is to get people to recognize the > >>>> divide among the big money folks in the US -- the Mercer father > daughter > >>>> beat the Koch brothers within the Republican moneyed. > >>>>>> The other side works hard to divide us and take advantage of the > >>>> disarray, so why not pay attention when they are dividing themselves! > >>>>>> No use being a day late and a dollar short about who's who! > >>>>>> Maybe it's just that my great uncle was in vaudeville and showed us > >>>> three yammering nieces a super card game called "52 pick-up." It's > not too > >>>> good too often for too long but everyone once in a while it's not a > bad > >>>> game. > >>>>>> PG > >>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > >>>> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of lpscholar2@gmail.com > >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 11:02 AM > >>>>>> To: Peg Griffin; 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' > >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg > referred to > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Peg, Mike, > >>>>>> Reading these two articles on BigData and remembering how funding > will > >>>> be given to academic research that slots into being verified (or > negated) > >>>> through BigData is profoundly disturbing and leaves me with a sense of > >>>> inertia at the scope of the alienation involved in this manipulation. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Using Simmel?s back and forth notion of the relation of (distance > and > >>>> intimacy) and finding the proper ratio depending on the events > occuring > >>>> then the proper relation between distance and intimacy will be > shifting in > >>>> scope in each historical era. > >>>>>> Will our response to the vast distance incarnated through BIgData > >>>> require intimate responses as counterpoint?? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> If this is LIKE the 1930?s, do we have any answers from the past > that > >>>> give glimmers of a way forward that can be responsive at scale to the > >>>> distancing of BigData? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Sent from my Windows 10 phone > >>>>>> > >>>>>> From: Peg Griffin > >>>>>> Sent: January 25, 2017 5:39 PM > >>>>>> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' > >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg > referred to > >>>>>> > >>>>>> And here's a Guardian story https://www.theguardian.com/ > >>>> us-news/2016/nov/23/donald-trump-cambridge-analytica-steve-bannon for > >>>> those interested in the post-election ties among the Mercers (father > and > >>>> daughter), Bannon, Conway, and Cambridge Analytica. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > >>>> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Peg Griffin > >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2017 7:43 PM > >>>>>> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' > >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg > referred to > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Hee hee hee, Mike Cole, you rogue! This is the official Cambridge > >>>> Analytica site https://cambridgeanalytica.org/ But Mike direct you > to a > >>>> meatier sit about it! > >>>>>> Peg > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > >>>> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole > >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2017 1:41 PM > >>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred to > >>>>>> > >>>>>> https://antidotezine.com/2017/01/22/trump-knows-you/ > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >> > > > > > > > From lpscholar2@gmail.com Sun Feb 5 08:31:01 2017 From: lpscholar2@gmail.com (lpscholar2@gmail.com) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 08:31:01 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] REQUEST FOR WAYS ACADEMIC SCHOLARS ACROSS DISCIPLINES CAN ENGAGE AND CREATE COMMUNITIES OF DESTINY In-Reply-To: References: <589643f2.589f620a.0419.3606@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <589743e7.0266620a.54f15.2733@mx.google.com> Mike, you have asked for concrete examples of scholars finding routes or courses to engage with passion in creating communities that can offer sustained responses of hope to the rise of Trump. I want to introduce Ana Heras from Buenos Aires Argentina who has been participating/performing in developing what she calls ?communities of destiny? through explicit focus on creating spaces of ?refuge?. Of central concern is the formation of a ?public? school that is democratically instituted. Ana?s work, play, and performance is a unique blend of [perezhivanie] exemplary of first ?living through? experiences [as mediated] AND THEN ?working and playing and performing through? what was previously ?lived through?. [as mediated] I asked Ana if it was ok to share her ways of creating [spaces of refuge] through [communities of destiny]. There is profound overlap with her work that rises to the concrete and with XMCA ways of proceeding. ANA is involved in forming and sustaining a publicly funded school in the heart of Buenos Aires that is key to forming and sustaining spaces of refuge. What I believe is particularly relevant is the notion of [becoming] within the ways the communities of destiny use ?memory? and multiple theories and methods intentionally as a living phenomena of moving back and forth creating MUTUALLY democratic spaces of refuge. Places from which community members can anticipate launching into the *open see* of unknowing, uncertainty, and this being a launch into vitality from spaces of refuge. Ana uses different theoretical traditions. However the formations that develop within her traditions overlap profoundly with cultural-historical traditions such as performances of ?third spaces?. I believe the institutional formation of a democratic school in Buenos Aires being a concrete example that is ongoing and is a community of destiny engaging with memory is a living example of what is possible. Ana?s work has a lot to offer as a pragmatic expression of both living through AND working through using powerful and expansive methods of acknowledgement that may present vital alternatives that answer Mike?s call for rising to the concrete. I have other articles of Ana?s if this thread resonates? Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Ana In?s Heras Sent: February 5, 2017 2:43 AM To: Larry Purss Subject: Re: Request to share your CERN proposed article Dearest Larry I am honored by your message. Yes, you can share the pieces I sent and / or other pieces you may see fit. Muchas gracias, Larry. I believe I had sent you this link a while ago, but just in case: The book children and our team made: In English:?https://proyectodeautonomia.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/a-city-in-flames-and-a-community-of-destiny1.pdf In Spanish:?https://proyectodeautonomia.wordpress.com/2015/12/07/la-ciudad-en-llamas-y-la-comunidad-de-destino/ Presentation of the book at the University in 2016? https://proyectodeautonomia.wordpress.com/2016/11/21/presentamos-la-ciudad-en-llamas-en-unsam/ As other examples, tho in Spanish, I can provide these posts, related w what has been happening here lately re: our national scientific / resesarch system. I have been participating as a member of the scientific community and as someone who believes in assembly-like, direct democracy gatherings: https://proyectodeautonomia.wordpress.com/2017/02/05/4-de-febrero-asamblea-en-conicet/ https://proyectodeautonomia.wordpress.com/2017/02/01/plenarios-preparatorios-de-la-asamblea-de-cyt-del-4-de-febrero/ https://proyectodeautonomia.wordpress.com/2017/01/03/navidadencienciaytecnica/ Muchas gracias, Larry, once again. Hasta la victoria, Ana In?s Dra. Ana In?s Heras Monner Sans Investigadora Independiente CONICET (CEDESI UNSAM) e Instituto para la Inclusi?n Social y el Desarrollo Humano http://proyectodeautonomia.wordpress.com/ http://www.aacademica.org/ana.ines.heras http://www.unsam.edu.ar/escuelas/humanidades/centros/cedesi/_presentacion.asp http://www.incluir.org.ar/ 2017-02-04 18:12 GMT-03:00 : Hi Ana, ? Mike Cole who is a central participant at the XMCA list serve has asked for concrete examples of how academics can descend from their ivory towers and engage meaningfully with their publics who will never go to a university. ? I believe your work is exemplary in this regard and will speak to his request for concrete examples. I am proposing to send your CERN proposal that outlines your general approach but wanted to check with you first. This list serve generates multiple threads that sometimes go nowhere and other times mushroom into extended explorations. ? The common factor on this list serve is Vygotsky and cultural-historical theory/psychology. ? At the moment with the rise of Trump there is a concerted question of how academics can become relevant in generating community transformation. ? Your having a living experience of community engagement AND then the ?working through? of what has been previously ?lived through? i believe is exemplary to answer Mike Cole?s request. You offer a concrete manifestation of what is possible when refuges are created and sustained. ? Let me know if I can post your CERN proposal you sent me last year that was a work in progress. Thanks Ana ? Sent from my Windows 10 phone ? From lpscholar2@gmail.com Sun Feb 5 09:02:52 2017 From: lpscholar2@gmail.com (lpscholar2@gmail.com) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 09:02:52 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: actions within academia In-Reply-To: <563DC5C2-5A29-4F62-9444-8D6B1D275857@umn.edu> References: <003601d2776d$2cc0a910$8641fb30$@att.net> <003a01d27774$a0aeaf00$e20c0d00$@att.net> <588a1d8b.c280630a.7710d.bdd6@mx.google.com> <002401d277f4$d8da5ac0$8a8f1040$@att.net> <588a317a.1121620a.8e1ba.d866@mx.google.com> <71E849D1-5353-4DDA-BA83-F1DF29820355@gmail.com> <88AB2869-5898-4F23-BB2E-6CCD490C96F7@umn.edu> <1486190026596.25381@iped.uio.no> <563DC5C2-5A29-4F62-9444-8D6B1D275857@umn.edu> Message-ID: <58974b5e.c1ce620a.242a.3b43@mx.google.com> I hear Mike?s call to engage and become entangled in the hurly burly of the life of communities whose children do NOT make it to the university. This is a more specific request that calls to leaving the ivory tower and coordinate with communities that are marginalized, at the periphery, that will require traveling and trans/verse/ing the spaces of difference. Following traditions that continue to generate academic credentials through intimate contact, rather than more distant engagement writing ?about? these communities. Ana Heras?s work and play entangles in this specific way. A particular historical moment in Argentinian politics supported this engagement. Today may be a time when opportunities are both closing down and opening up? Mike is calling for exemplars that rise to the concrete Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Richard Beach Sent: February 4, 2017 1:47 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] actions within academia Mike, regarding your call for action on campuses, my concern is that people may accept a passive stance as individuals assuming that they lack agency to make change as opposed to achieving distributed agency (Enfield, 2013) through exposure to examples of collective activism so that they achieve agency through co-action with others. Students and researchers could examine examples of current organized efforts from a CHAT perspective in terms of use of certain tools and norms to achieve certain objects/outcomes, for example: - Our Revolution national organization website - Indivisible: A Practical Guide for Resisting the Trump Agenda : Former congressional staffers reveal best practices for making Congress listen - Courage Campaign : A California-based organization of 1.3 million members promoting progressive agendas - Swing Left : Targets swing districts to promote candidates for the 2018 election. Consistent with a CHAT perspective, to avoid students framing the political space in individualist terms?as Trump does in his attacks on critics, it?s also useful for students and researchers to examine issues in terms of competing systems associated with institutional forces and change. For example, in addressing climate change, students and researchers can examine the intersections between ecological, economic, agriculture, legal, political, urban design/housing, transportation, schooling, health care, military, media, and scientific research as systems related to climate change. For example, the agribusiness agricultural system of monocrop/beef production is a major contributor to CO2 emissions related to climate change. Students can also examine examples of legal and political efforts as systems associated with addressing climate change issues , for example, a group of students in Oregon who have a lawsuit in federal courts suing the U. S. Government for failing to address climate change. Richard Beach, Professor Emeritus of English Education, University of Minnesota rbeach@umn.edu Websites: Digital writing , Media?literacy , Teaching literature , Identity-focused ELA Teaching , Common Core?State Standards , Apps for literacy?learning , Teaching about climate change > On Feb 4, 2017, at 11:55 AM, mike cole wrote: > > Richard and Alfredo > > I keep coming back to the question of how we, as academics, located in the > system of higher education, researchers on the social creation of social > inequality, ought to be re-orienting our research in light of the > re-surrection of global nationalist/populism. > > So for me, its important to focus on concrete exemplars that might unloose > this potential: "shock events' possibility not only for separating but for > actually offering opportunities to re-organize and unite priorly separated > forces." > > In a recent discussion at LCHC, this topic came up in terms of how to > connect our research and our undergraduates to the life of the communities > whose children do not make it to the university. Such an effort requires > coordination of a variety of dis-articulated groups with a common concern > about socially and culturally marginalized, econonomically stressed, > communities. > > The challenge of engaging successfully in such work and satisfying the > academic production requirements of their academic personnel committees > seems a major challenge. > > Positive suggestions of how to meet this challenge would be warmly accepted. > > mike > > > > On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 10:33 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > wrote: > >> Thanks for sharing Richard, I had seen Richardson's analysis online. In >> fact the amount of analyses in the media that this crisis is generating is >> overwhelming, but also very encouraging and gives hopes towards >> Richardson's notes on shock events' possibility not only for separating but >> for actually offering opportunities to re-organize and unite priorly >> separated forces. I wonder, if Lincoln managed without the web and the >> i-phone, will it happen today? >> >> Alfredo >> ________________________________________ >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> on behalf of Richard Beach >> Sent: 03 February 2017 00:28 >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Bannon's actions as "shock event" >> >> Here?s an interesting analysis of Bannon?s actions on banning immigrants >> that?s related to Bakhtin?s notion of ?eventness? and Roth?s (2014) >> analysis of ?events-in-the-making? associated with the experience of >> unfolding events with unpredictable consequences. We still don?t know what >> the fallout will be from attempts to implement this ban. >> >>> From Heather Richardson, professor of History at Boston College: >> >> "I don't like to talk about politics on Facebook-- political history is my >> job, after all, and you are my friends-- but there is an important >> non-partisan point to make today. >> >> What Bannon is doing, most dramatically with last night's ban on >> immigration from seven predominantly Muslim countries-- is creating what is >> known as a "shock event." >> >> Such an event is unexpected and confusing and throws a society into chaos. >> People scramble to react to the event, usually along some fault line that >> those responsible for the event can widen by claiming that they alone know >> how to restore order. >> >> When opponents speak out, the authors of the shock event call them >> enemies. As society reels and tempers run high, those responsible for the >> shock event perform a sleight of hand to achieve their real goal, a goal >> they know to be hugely unpopular, but from which everyone has been >> distracted as they fight over the initial event. There is no longer >> concerted opposition to the real goal; opposition divides along the >> partisan lines established by the shock event. >> >> Last night's Executive Order has all the hallmarks of a shock event. It >> was not reviewed by any governmental agencies or lawyers before it was >> released, and counterterrorism experts insist they did not ask for it. >> People charged with enforcing it got no instructions about how to do so. >> Courts immediately have declared parts of it unconstitutional, but border >> police in some airports are refusing to stop enforcing it. >> >> Predictably, chaos has followed and tempers are hot. >> >> My point today is this: unless you are the person setting it up, it is in >> no one's interest to play the shock event game. It is designed explicitly >> to divide people who might otherwise come together so they cannot stand >> against something its authors think they won't like. >> >> I don't know what Bannon is up to-- although I have some guesses-- but >> because I know Bannon's ideas well, I am positive that there is not a >> single person whom I consider a friend on either side of the aisle-- and my >> friends range pretty widely-- who will benefit from whatever it is. >> >> If the shock event strategy works, though, many of you will blame each >> other, rather than Bannon, for the fallout. And the country will have been >> tricked into accepting their real goal. >> >> But because shock events destabilize a society, they can also be used >> positively. We do not have to respond along old fault lines. We could just >> as easily reorganize into a different pattern that threatens the people who >> sparked the event. >> >> A successful shock event depends on speed and chaos because it requires >> knee-jerk reactions so that people divide along established lines. This, >> for example, is how Confederate leaders railroaded the initial southern >> states out of the Union. >> >> If people realize they are being played, though, they can reach across old >> lines and reorganize to challenge the leaders who are pulling the strings. >> This was Lincoln's strategy when he joined together Whigs, Democrats, >> Free-Soilers, anti-Nebraska voters, and nativists into the new Republican >> Party to stand against the Slave Power. >> >> Five years before, such a coalition would have been unimaginable. Members >> of those groups agreed on very little other than that they wanted all >> Americans to have equal economic opportunity. Once they began to work >> together to promote a fair economic system, though, they found much common >> ground. They ended up rededicating the nation to a "government of the >> people, by the people, and for the people." >> >> Confederate leaders and Lincoln both knew about the political potential of >> a shock event. As we are in the midst of one, it seems worth noting that >> Lincoln seemed to have the better idea about how to use it." >> >> >> >> Richard Beach, Professor Emeritus of English Education, University of >> Minnesota >> rbeach@umn.edu >> Websites: Digital writing , Media >> literacy , Teaching literature >> , Identity-focused ELA Teaching < >> http://identities.pbworks.com/>, Common Core State Standards < >> http://englishccss.pbworks.com/>, Apps for literacy learning < >> http://usingipads.pbworks.com/>, Teaching about climate change < >> http://climatechangeela.pbworks.com/> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Jan 26, 2017, at 10:16 AM, Helena Worthen >> wrote: >>> >>> On the subject of dividing, here is an ugly snapshot of the wedge >> getting driven in ? the building trades unions finding common ground with >> Trump as a ?developer.? The other deeply regressive unions are the prison >> guards and police. >>> >>> http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2017/01/building-trades-allow- >> themselves-to-be-played-like-fools >>> >>> I attend monthly discussion groups in the Bay Area organized around >> readings from the magazine Jacobin. I like these because the other >> participants are mostly 20s and early 30s, techies or grad students. Very >> smart, very alert, very well-read and articulate. They are stamped, >> however, with evidence of never having studied history. (Philosophy, yes ? >> which is interesting.) To many of them, the building trades and police >> unions are typical of the political position of labor unions. >>> >>> So they see LIUNA leaders meeting with Trump and smear the whole labor >> movement with it. >>> >>> H >>> >>> Helena Worthen >>> helenaworthen@gmail.com >>> Berkeley, CA 94707 >>> Blog about US and Viet Nam: helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Jan 26, 2017, at 9:26 AM, < >> lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Yes, >>>> Today, the strategy of dividing, leaving us in disarray, is how i >> experience the deluge of draconian executive ?orders? that leaves me >> spinning. >>>> Leaves me questioning where to start. >>>> >>>> Exposing the disarray on the other side in concrete ways (Koch vs >> Mercer) is a valuable addition to our ways of responding. >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my Windows 10 phone >>>> >>>> From: Peg Griffin >>>> Sent: January 26, 2017 8:57 AM >>>> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred to >>>> >>>> At this point, Larry, I'm content to rise to as much concrete as I can >> get near, until at least the late spring, to get at ideas and >> contradictions, to keep moving and supporting so I'm in enough places to >> and bits of the movement to find the productive places for me. >>>> A mini-mission of mine right now is to get people to recognize the >> divide among the big money folks in the US -- the Mercer father daughter >> beat the Koch brothers within the Republican moneyed. >>>> The other side works hard to divide us and take advantage of the >> disarray, so why not pay attention when they are dividing themselves! >>>> No use being a day late and a dollar short about who's who! >>>> Maybe it's just that my great uncle was in vaudeville and showed us >> three yammering nieces a super card game called "52 pick-up." It's not too >> good too often for too long but everyone once in a while it's not a bad >> game. >>>> PG >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of lpscholar2@gmail.com >>>> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 11:02 AM >>>> To: Peg Griffin; 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred to >>>> >>>> Peg, Mike, >>>> Reading these two articles on BigData and remembering how funding will >> be given to academic research that slots into being verified (or negated) >> through BigData is profoundly disturbing and leaves me with a sense of >> inertia at the scope of the alienation involved in this manipulation. >>>> >>>> Using Simmel?s back and forth notion of the relation of (distance and >> intimacy) and finding the proper ratio depending on the events occuring >> then the proper relation between distance and intimacy will be shifting in >> scope in each historical era. >>>> Will our response to the vast distance incarnated through BIgData >> require intimate responses as counterpoint?? >>>> >>>> If this is LIKE the 1930?s, do we have any answers from the past that >> give glimmers of a way forward that can be responsive at scale to the >> distancing of BigData? >>>> >>>> Sent from my Windows 10 phone >>>> >>>> From: Peg Griffin >>>> Sent: January 25, 2017 5:39 PM >>>> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred to >>>> >>>> And here's a Guardian story https://www.theguardian.com/ >> us-news/2016/nov/23/donald-trump-cambridge-analytica-steve-bannon for >> those interested in the post-election ties among the Mercers (father and >> daughter), Bannon, Conway, and Cambridge Analytica. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Peg Griffin >>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2017 7:43 PM >>>> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred to >>>> >>>> Hee hee hee, Mike Cole, you rogue! This is the official Cambridge >> Analytica site https://cambridgeanalytica.org/ But Mike direct you to a >> meatier sit about it! >>>> Peg >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole >>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2017 1:41 PM >>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred to >>>> >>>> https://antidotezine.com/2017/01/22/trump-knows-you/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> From mcole@ucsd.edu Sun Feb 5 09:22:55 2017 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 09:22:55 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: REQUEST FOR WAYS ACADEMIC SCHOLARS ACROSS DISCIPLINES CAN ENGAGE AND CREATE COMMUNITIES OF DESTINY In-Reply-To: <589743e7.0266620a.54f15.2733@mx.google.com> References: <589643f2.589f620a.0419.3606@mx.google.com> <589743e7.0266620a.54f15.2733@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Thanks Larry for making the connection and thanks Ana for sending the text from/about your school. I will answer this on the thread on Learning Science in the era of global nationalism-populism. A part of my vain effort to be able to keep hold of the thread of the discussion. mike On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 8:31 AM, wrote: > Mike, you have asked for concrete examples of scholars finding routes or > courses to engage with passion in creating communities that can offer > sustained responses of hope to the rise of Trump. > > I want to introduce Ana Heras from Buenos Aires Argentina who has been > participating/performing in developing what she calls ?communities of > destiny? through explicit focus on creating spaces of ?refuge?. Of central > concern is the formation of a ?public? school that is democratically > instituted. > > Ana?s work, play, and performance is a unique blend of [perezhivanie] > exemplary of first ?living through? experiences [as mediated] AND THEN > ?working and playing and performing through? what was previously ?lived > through?. [as mediated] > I asked Ana if it was ok to share her ways of creating [spaces of refuge] > through [communities of destiny]. > > There is profound overlap with her work that rises to the concrete and > with XMCA ways of proceeding. > > ANA is involved in forming and sustaining a publicly funded school in the > heart of Buenos Aires that is key to forming and sustaining spaces of > refuge. > What I believe is particularly relevant is the notion of [becoming] within > the ways the communities of destiny use ?memory? and multiple theories and > methods intentionally as a living phenomena of moving back and forth > creating MUTUALLY democratic spaces of refuge. Places from which community > members can anticipate launching into the *open see* of unknowing, > uncertainty, and this being a launch into vitality from spaces of refuge. > > Ana uses different theoretical traditions. However the formations that > develop within her traditions overlap profoundly with cultural-historical > traditions such as performances of ?third spaces?. > I believe the institutional formation of a democratic school in Buenos > Aires being a concrete example that is ongoing and is a community of > destiny engaging with memory is a living example of what is possible. > Ana?s work has a lot to offer as a pragmatic expression of both living > through AND working through using powerful and expansive methods of > acknowledgement that may present vital alternatives that answer Mike?s call > for rising to the concrete. > > I have other articles of Ana?s if this thread resonates? > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > From: Ana In?s Heras > Sent: February 5, 2017 2:43 AM > To: Larry Purss > Subject: Re: Request to share your CERN proposed article > > Dearest Larry > > I am honored by your message. Yes, you can share the pieces I sent and / > or other pieces you may see fit. Muchas gracias, Larry. > > I believe I had sent you this link a while ago, but just in case: > The book children and our team made: > In English: https://proyectodeautonomia.files. > wordpress.com/2015/12/a-city-in-flames-and-a-community-of-destiny1.pdf > In Spanish: https://proyectodeautonomia.wordpress. > com/2015/12/07/la-ciudad-en-llamas-y-la-comunidad-de-destino/ > Presentation of the book at the University in 2016 > https://proyectodeautonomia.wordpress.com/2016/11/21/ > presentamos-la-ciudad-en-llamas-en-unsam/ > > As other examples, tho in Spanish, I can provide these posts, related w > what has been happening here lately re: our national scientific / resesarch > system. I have been participating as a member of the scientific community > and as someone who believes in assembly-like, direct democracy gatherings: > > https://proyectodeautonomia.wordpress.com/2017/02/05/4-de- > febrero-asamblea-en-conicet/ > > https://proyectodeautonomia.wordpress.com/2017/02/01/ > plenarios-preparatorios-de-la-asamblea-de-cyt-del-4-de-febrero/ > > https://proyectodeautonomia.wordpress.com/2017/01/03/ > navidadencienciaytecnica/ > > Muchas gracias, Larry, once again. > Hasta la victoria, > Ana In?s > > > > > Dra. Ana In?s Heras Monner Sans > Investigadora Independiente CONICET (CEDESI UNSAM) > e Instituto para la Inclusi?n Social y el Desarrollo Humano > > http://proyectodeautonomia.wordpress.com/ > http://www.aacademica.org/ana.ines.heras > http://www.unsam.edu.ar/escuelas/humanidades/centros/ > cedesi/_presentacion.asp > http://www.incluir.org.ar/ > > > > 2017-02-04 18:12 GMT-03:00 : > Hi Ana, > > Mike Cole who is a central participant at the XMCA list serve has asked > for concrete examples of how academics can descend from their ivory towers > and engage meaningfully with their publics who will never go to a > university. > > I believe your work is exemplary in this regard and will speak to his > request for concrete examples. I am proposing to send your CERN proposal > that outlines your general approach but wanted to check with you first. > This list serve generates multiple threads that sometimes go nowhere and > other times mushroom into extended explorations. > > The common factor on this list serve is Vygotsky and cultural-historical > theory/psychology. > > At the moment with the rise of Trump there is a concerted question of how > academics can become relevant in generating community transformation. > > Your having a living experience of community engagement AND then the > ?working through? of what has been previously ?lived through? i believe is > exemplary to answer Mike Cole?s request. You offer a concrete manifestation > of what is possible when refuges are created and sustained. > > Let me know if I can post your CERN proposal you sent me last year that > was a work in progress. > Thanks Ana > > Sent from my Windows 10 phone > > > > From lpscholar2@gmail.com Sun Feb 5 10:30:44 2017 From: lpscholar2@gmail.com (lpscholar2@gmail.com) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 10:30:44 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Perezhivanie and Organic In-Reply-To: References: <5893695b.c32f630a.3d640.41ee@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <58975ff5.8e3f630a.4fc2a.5fd5@mx.google.com> Another scholar of ?performance studies? is Richard Schechner who posits a continuum for ?performance? that spans 5 categories: play, games, sports, theatre, ritual. Play is ?free? where ritual is ?strictly? programmed or designed, while games, sports and theatre MEDIATE between these extremes as more play-like or more ritual-like. This continuum is basically an elaboration of how performances are variations on ?ritual? as an encompassing category. This allows Schechner to extend the values of ritual into creation of symbolic reality that pervades the analysis of other performance genres: play, games, sports, ritual. Shechner explains performance studies in the preface to his book [Performance Studies: An Introduction]: Performance studies ? as a practice, a theory, an academic discipline ? is dynamic, UNFINISHABLE. Whatever it is, it wasn?t exactly that before and it won?t be exactly that again. One dominant metaphor by which performance studies has been figured is ?the unmapped terrain?. This metaphor figures uncertainty, ambiguity, navigating the incomprehensible, the ungraspable, the unsaying at the heart of the certain, the graspable, the comprehensible, the saying. This unmapped terrain may be ??exhilarating? for those scholars and persons who relish ?not knowing? that is hard to pin down. So too is the study of ?performance? exhilarating and privileges open-ended questions. The potential to illuminate, instruct, an inspire, is enhanced not diminished by this ever present ?uncertainty?. Don?t try to fix performance studies down is its central value and if you do the symbolic realm will become a mere idol. By insisting that performance studies cannot be fixed or defined, performance studies is situated as a NEGATIVE discipline trafficking in ?denials? and the unsaying of speech. This gives a flavour of the way performance studies is posited in apophatic terms of the unmapped terrain in the fashion of Schechner?s explorations of the continuum of ritual, play, games, sports, theatre. Beth and Monica exploring playworlds and perezhivanie can be put in dialogue with Schechner. I was channelling Claire Chambers above who is deeply engaged with this performance thematic playing out through historical epochs and becoming secularized in modern performance studies. Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Edward Wall Sent: February 4, 2017 4:10 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Perezhivanie and Organic David Yes, that was the difference I was noting. Vygotsky in the passages I was reading seems to using ?organic? as denoting something ?natural,' while Stanislavsky seemed to using it s somewhat more holistic fashion. Ed > On Feb 2, 2017, at 3:01 PM, David Kellogg wrote: > > The Russian word that Vygotsky uses for "organic" is the same as the word > we use, and I assume that the same thing is true of the word that > Stanislavsky used. It is "organic" transliterated into Cyrillic, rather > than translated into Russian. > > What really makes this problem new-thread-worthy is that the meaning of the > word "organic" at the end of the nineteenth century is not the same as the > word meaning that we use in several important ways. > > Take, for example, the crudest possible way: semantic prosody, or the "good > vibes" of some words (e.g. "organic food") vs. the "bad vibes" of others > (e.g. "artificial flavor"). The nineteenth century began with a romantic > movement towards nature and towards holism ("Gestaltism"), against dogmatic > rationalism and atomism. So "organicism" had a semantic prosody that > involved not only naturalism (which it still does) but also a form of > proto-structuralism. Organic structure involved a complex whole with parts > that are interdependent like organs and not independent like ball bearings. > > Today, this semantic prosody falls on deaf ears. If anything, it's the > other way around: we know all about cells, and we know that they are > independant and dispensible in large numbers (you slough off millions every > day). But mechanical parts are precisely engineered to fit each other, and > for the want of one, the whole machine comes to a grinding halt. > > Nevertheless, we can still see this older meaning of organicism in > Toennies' distinction between Gemeinschaft (community, mechanical > solidarity) and Gesellschaft (society,organic solidarity) and also in the > work of Bernsetin (workers have a mechanical solidarity based on likeness > while middle class people have organic solidarity based on mutual > instrumentality). > > (Of course, there's the same problem. Even working class families have an > organic solidarity, while it is sometimes hard to believe that white collar > office workers sitting at computers in cubicles are anything bt > mechanical....) > > David Kellogg > Macquarie University > > On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 4:20 AM, Edward Wall wrote: > >> Stanislavisk seems to consider what is termed ?organic? in his taking up >> of perezhivanie. Vygotsky also uses the term ?organic,? although as near as >> I can tell, without regard to perezhivanie. However, what seems to be being >> called ?organic? is very different (or so it seems) in these two cases. Is >> the Rusiian different? >> >> Ed Wall >> >>> On Feb 2, 2017, at 11:15 AM, lpscholar2@gmail.com wrote: >>> >>> Beth and Monica explore the phenomena occurring in playworlds generating >> perezhivanie. >>> >>> Playworlds are performance worlds and these worlds may be exploring the >> relation of ?unity? and ?difference?. >>> >>> Another term that may have relevance when Beth and Monica refer to >> negating the negation is the operation of ?apophasis?. >>> William Frank (On What Cannot Be Said) describes the apophatic : >>> >>> *In apophasis, which empties language of all positive content, absolute >> difference cannot be distinguished from absolute unity, even though the >> respective discourses of difference and unity nominally stand at the >> antipodes. BOTH configurations, unity and difference, are exposed as >> relatively arbitrary and, in the end, equally inadequate schemas for >> articulating what cannot be said. (Franke) >>> >>> Claire Chambers in her book (Performance Studies and Negative >> Epistemology) comments on the above Franke citation : >>> >>> *If unity and difference cannot be distinguished from one another (we >> cannot KNOW what makes them distinct), then it is impossible to determine >> what either ?is? ? meaning that knowing and being, epistemology and >> ontology, are also impossible to distinguish from one another.(Claire >> Chambers Chapter 1) >>> >>> I am not sure how far to go with this theme of : Negating the negation? >>> I hear this theme in playworlds. >>> >>> If this seems relevant, i can post the first chapter of Claire Chambers >> book. I will just mention that Vygotsky?s Judaic childhood and adolescence >> would have encountered this apophatic ?tradition?. >>> Enough for one probe or possible pivot? >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my Windows 10 phone >>> >> >> >> From mcole@ucsd.edu Sun Feb 5 09:28:00 2017 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 09:28:00 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Learning Sciences in the era of U.S. Nationalism In-Reply-To: References: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F903C71964@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <1485073527094.7145@iped.uio.no> <5E5B95EA-374F-48EB-B308-BCE49DA52760@gmail.com> <1485113892233.91870@iped.uio.no> <7BD412C4-D775-4D3A-9992-68ACACFB188C@gmail.com> <8004DEFF-7DEE-4D14-8B25-721A97DE1384@gmail.com> Message-ID: I would like to pick link Julian's comments below to Anna's school project in Argentina. Julian, in dialogue with Helena, wrote: I think what the Cognition & Instruction authors were suggesting was that the Learning sciences could be more 'part of the solution' if they develop a progressive perspective/agenda for their LS research? e.g. Critiquing the 'what works' type of domination of the field. Im OK with that. I will let the LS authors comment for themselves, but I worry about stopping the process at critique. (This argument, too, goes back to the 1930's and the struggle against fascism then, which I agree is totally relevant.). The next step is to seek to seek to create alternatives based on the principles/values that you want to see realized and your analysis of where, in the current turbulent state of human history, such can actually be implemented as a condition for testing your ideas about worthy alternatives, e.g., the process of reflexive thinking. With respect to the sort of effort that Ana's work exemplifies, if I were an active member of my faculty, I would be seeking to provide strong links between the courses I taught and the community-based activities, ordinarily beyond the University's horizon in order to benefit my teaching and my research while providing critical resources for building as well as sources of self critique. There is an official three-fold mission of the University of California upon which every faculty member is evaluated: teaching, research, and service. Activities which satisfy these three criteria while promoting democratic educational practices might also satisfy the strategies in the Critical Learning Science piece. This route does not eliminate the issue of power academic politics within the University which mitigate against research of this type, but it can be done. Or it could be done during the past half century. Whether or not it can be done in the current circumstances is under severe challenge. mike mike PS- In On Tue, Jan 24, 2017 at 10:38 AM, Julian Williams < julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk> wrote: > Helena, yes that was it 'Pride'! > > The second part of the question you posed: > > I lazily used 'transposition' and its not Bourdieu's word: he argues that > every cultural field has a power structure that is to a large degree > homologous to THE FIELD OF POWER whose basis is largely that of economic > capital, albeit that there is some 'autonomous' structure of cultural > capital in the field that implies there is 'work' to be done in > transforming economic capital into cultural capital and vice versa (you > can't simply 'buy' the papacy or the presidential palace, but money plus > other capitals might do the trick). I wrote about this a bit in a recent > MCA paper (Choudry & Williams 2016?). > > In this view then the academic field(s) of power might be revealed as > being a 'transposed' (if you forgive my short-hand for Bourdieu's > perspective) version of that of the Field of Power at large, which is in > turn transposed into the gender politics field that the women > marchers/LGBT activists are engaged in. > > The right kind of social analysis is supposed to help the gay pride > marchers to recognise that they are on the same side as the striking > miners; failures to get this right and make this visible is the main > reason why Trump and Co can win, and why Trumps may be even a necessary > risk for the ruling class to break up the resistance to their domination > in tough times (i.e. The Davos crowd would rather do it the Clintons' way, > but in hard times fascism may be needed to culturally dispossess the > already dispossessed so they can be crushed). > > > Now I go to the first part of your question: > > I like the way you put it here - and it points to a weakness in Bourdieu's > reflexive sociology (he sees it as the job of the sociologist-activist to > raise consciousness; while Id say with Freire that it is all our jobs). > > It is true that even though I should be expected (as a well-paid and > comfortably middle-classed professional) to side with conservatism, I find > myself culturally disposed to side with the oppressed, e.g. supporting > Momentum and the Labour left. The oppressed can have many allies on this > basis as well as those who actually are economically and politically > crushed. > > But then I am torn: there are many things that I 'have to do' to maintain > a position of power in the academic field that are downright exploitative > and oppressive. So in my academic work I may (at least sometimes) be part > of the problem rather than the solution. I think what the Cognition & > Instruction authors were suggesting was that the Learning sciences could > be more 'part of the solution' if they develop a progressive > perspective/agenda for their LS research? e.g. Critiquing the 'what works' > type of domination of the field. Im OK with that. > > Hope this makes some sense and I didn't 'lose the momentum' of the thread. > > julian > > > > > On 24/01/2017 04:29, "xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Helena > Worthen" helenaworthen@gmail.com> wrote: > > >Julian, the movie you?re thinking of is Pride. > > > >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pride_(2014_film) > > > >Are you suggesting stepping from looking at and studying identity groups > >to ?coming out? as being a member of one, and then in full feather of > >one?s identity, relating to the stranger across the aisle? > > > >But could you please explain what this means: ??..whose cultural capital > >in his analysis is a transposition of the dominant economic, capitalist > >class.? What does ?transposition? mean here? > > > >Thanks ? > > > > > >Helena Worthen > >helenaworthen@gmail.com > >Berkeley, CA 94707 > >Blog about US and Viet Nam: helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > > > > > > >> On Jan 23, 2017, at 10:49 AM, Julian Williams > >> wrote: > >> > >> Dear Helena and all > >> > >> The victories of the right in the US and Europe surely cannot be > >>explained > >> only by cultural identity issues, and not only by the disaffection of > >>the > >> workers with their traditional (-ly hopeless social democratic) parties, > >> though these are important elements of the situation that are making the > >> far right a possible option for capital. > >> > >> Surely we have to look at the global failure of capitalism: the reasons > >> are essentially economic. Our rulers seem ever more desperate to manage > >>a > >> rate of profit that will satisfy capital and it seems a small portion of > >> them are prepared to back the far right as an option on the political > >> field if necessary. Not yet a significant minority of the Davos class, > >> because they still need to be convinced that the traditional order > >>cannot > >> be made to work, but the Murdoch's and the UKIP/ Tory petit bourgeois > >> backbone are nearly there already: Trump himself is pretty much there, > >>as > >> is Le Pen et al, .. > >> > >> Within this context, and more if/when another 2008 crash hits, the > >>fascist > >> strategy will grow more attractive as the rightist parties attract more > >> disaffected workers, non-workers and petit bourgeois. All the > >> cultural-ideological elements of fascism and nationalism are there in > >>the > >> Uk and France/Netherlands etc just as bad as in Trumpland. (Hey Trump > >> didn't even get the majority vote - on any democratic conception he has > >>no > >> right to have been declared a winner?. Unless we can declare 'Remain' a > >> victory because its 48% vote is represented in our parliament by a > >> majority of the representatives?) > >> > >> What can 'we' do? Only to keep trying to clarify it, keep telling it as > >>it > >> is and might be. What part a conceptualisation of perezhivanie has in > >>this > >> I don't know - but it might be worth re-reading 'The struggle against > >> fascism in Germany' again (not being ironic). The lesson then/there was > >>to > >> block with Social Democracy and labour unions/parties while explaining > >>its > >> failures, helping their support to move left as well as showing there is > >> an alternative to the alternative (here we have Corbyn and momentum; the > >> US have Bernie and ?). > >> > >> But maybe this strategy is not enough? What else? I think there are > >> important interventions also in the cultural fields and so identity is > >>an > >> issue for capital. I wrote a bit about this from Bourdieu's perspective? > >> what progressives in every field have in common is that they resist the > >> dominant powers in their cultural field - whose cultural capital in his > >> analysis is a transposition of the dominant economic, capitalist class. > >> That?s what LGBT, underprivileged groups, national/ethnic minorities, > >>etc > >> everywhere have in common, if we can be helped to see it? like that film > >> of the gay rights activists from London who marched to South Wales to > >> support the miners strike? and the miners who in returned joined a gay > >> rights march in London? what was that called? > >> > >> Julian. > >> > >> > >> > >> On 23/01/2017 17:55, "xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of > >>Helena > >> Worthen" >> helenaworthen@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >>> Well, yes. Good question: How? I take it Francine is not asking this > >>> ironically: she really wants us to figure out how. > >>> > >>> The challenge is to answer the question. > >>> > >>> I don?t think any of us have a quick answer, but it certainly is a > >>> question that is within our collective knowledge to address. > >>> > >>> H > >>> > >>> Helena Worthen > >>> helenaworthen@gmail.com > >>> Berkeley, CA 94707 > >>> Blog about US and Viet Nam: helenaworthen.wordpress.com > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> On Jan 22, 2017, at 7:32 PM, Larry Smolucha > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Message from Francine Smolucha: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> The key to an analysis of the Trump movement is understanding the > >>>> > >>>> fundamental IRONIES that have rocked American politics. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> The workers revolution has resulted in the > >>>> > >>>> workers/unions deserting the Left, the socialists, the Democratic > >>>>Party. > >>>> > >>>> Trump is a Capitalist regardless of whether he actually has a > >>>> Republican ideology. > >>>> > >>>> The workers' movement has been hijacked by a capitalist. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> The other great IRONY is that Trump wants to make Russia a U.S. ally > >>>> (again). > >>>> > >>>> The Left, the socialists, the Democratic Party are the ones demonizing > >>>> Russia - > >>>> > >>>> what a reversal! > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Since CHAT derives from Russian psychology (Leontiev and Vygotsky) and > >>>> the backlash against Trump is also a backlash against all things > >>>>Russian > >>>> - this puts CHAT in a particularly awkward position. How can a > >>>>cultural > >>>> historical psychology that originated in Russia become the leader in > >>>>the > >>>> anti-Trump discourse? or lead an anti-Trump educational movement? You > >>>> are even extolling a Russian concept PEREZHIVANIE. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> I think the XMCA needs to examine its own perezhivanie at this time. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ________________________________ > >>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >>>> > >>>> on behalf of mike cole > >>>> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2017 3:01 PM > >>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>>> Cc: Mariane Hedegaard; Reijo Miettinen; Seth Chaiklin > >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Learning Sciences in the era of U.S. > >>>> Nationalism > >>>> > >>>> Helena et al -- > >>>> > >>>> An important emphasis in the article for me was on the fact that > >>>> although > >>>> the article focused on the American nationalist movement that has just > >>>> pulled of an alt-right coup, similar movements are poised to take hold > >>>> in a > >>>> lot of places in Europe to join the many already entrenched unsavory > >>>> governments in other parts of the world. > >>>> > >>>> The CRADLE center in Helsinki is under very concerted attack and the > >>>> right > >>>> wing government appears, from this distance, to be making great > >>>> progress on > >>>> destroying its legacy. The same process has been in Denmark for some > >>>> time, > >>>> also with apparent success. > >>>> > >>>> What do our international colleagues who have already felt the hot > >>>> breath > >>>> of right wing nationalism have to offer in terms of strategies of > >>>> resistence? > >>>> > >>>> Back to "what is to be done," that sombre question from an earlier > >>>>era. > >>>> The > >>>> answer last time did not produce what it promised. > >>>> > >>>> mike > >>>> > >>>> mike > >>>> > >>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2017 at 12:22 PM, Helena Worthen > >>>> > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Thank you, Alfredo - I gave it a read. > >>>>> > >>>>> Sure, of course they?re right. But I am very disappointed. > >>>>> > >>>>> I was hoping that the following was only item #1 in a long list of > >>>>> "what > >>>>> the 2016 election made apparent": > >>>>> > >>>>> The 2016 election has made apparent the need for scholarship that > >>>>> explicitly defends and furthers the rights and well-being of people > >>>>>of > >>>>> color, immigrants, Muslims, women, people who are differently abled, > >>>>> LGBTQ > >>>>> communities, and the earth. These are stances that have been limited, > >>>>> at > >>>>> least explicitly, in the Learning Sciences. > >>>>> > >>>>> But the call for inclusion was not just #1, it seems to be the whole > >>>>> thing. In other words, it?s all about identity ?plus the earth, of > >>>>> course. > >>>>> While inclusion is necessary, it?s not even a start. Yes, research, > >>>>> teaching, publishing, promotion, conferences ? everything associated > >>>>> with > >>>>> teaching and learning has to include everyone as equals (see Andy?s > >>>>> book) > >>>>> in one way or another ? but then what? What are they (we) supposed to > >>>>> do? > >>>>> Where does the pretty language touch the ground? > >>>>> > >>>>> I was listening to a broadcast of the Women?s March in DC on Saturday > >>>>> morning, and Kamala Harris, who was the California State Attorney > >>>>> General > >>>>> and is now a junior Senator from CA, was addressing the rally. She > >>>>> said, > >>>>> ?People always ask me to talk about women?s issues. I say, ?Oh, I?m > >>>>>SO > >>>>> glad > >>>>> you?re interested in economics!! Let?s talk about economics.? And > >>>>>she > >>>>> ran > >>>>> through a whole set of parallel back-and-forths, always pulling > >>>>> identity > >>>>> questions back to wages, jobs, earning, supporting your family, etc > >>>>> etc. > >>>>> > >>>>> Much as we need to wipe away any barriers to the Learning Sciences > >>>>>(and > >>>>> the professions and institutions dedicated to them) due to identity, > >>>>> until > >>>>> the Learning Sciences start taking a look at the place where most > >>>>> people > >>>>> spend most of their lives ? not school, I mean ? but work, they will > >>>>>be > >>>>> engaging in a soft conversation at the edge of the real issue. It?s a > >>>>> pleasant conversation but it doesn?t put a hand on the levers that > >>>>> translate skill and knowledge into rent and groceries. > >>>>> > >>>>> H > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Helena Worthen > >>>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com > >>>>> Berkeley, CA 94707 > >>>>> Blog about US and Viet Nam: helenaworthen.wordpress.com > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> On Jan 22, 2017, at 11:38 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > >>>>>> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Here it is, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://cognitionandinstruction.com/engagements-the-learning- > >>>>> sciences-in-a-new-era-of-u-s-nationalism/ > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Alfredo > >>>>>> ________________________________________ > >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >>>>>> > >>>>> on behalf of Helena Worthen > >>>>>> Sent: 22 January 2017 20:24 > >>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Learning Sciences in the era of U.S. > >>>>> Nationalism > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Someone please re-send the link to this article? I think I?m going > >>>>>>to > >>>>> want to read it and respond to Mike?s question. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Thanks ? H > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Helena Worthen > >>>>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com > >>>>>> Berkeley, CA 94707 > >>>>>> Blog about US and Viet Nam: helenaworthen.wordpress.com > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Jan 22, 2017, at 12:25 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > >>>>>>> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Mike, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> thanks a lot for sharing this article. You and Michael, who have > >>>>>>>and > >>>>> know more history, have spoken in terms of reminiscences. I have > >>>>>lived > >>>>> and > >>>>> know less, and the article feels like fresh air. During my PhD, I > >>>>> begun to > >>>>> increasingly feel that I had to due something to act and respond to > >>>>>the > >>>>> increasing ecological and humanitarian globe crises. But how could I > >>>>>do > >>>>> anything if I had children and a PhD to finalise?? What could I do > >>>>>that > >>>>> would also be doing my job as researcher in a department of > >>>>>education? > >>>>> It > >>>>> was very difficult to find anything, partly because almost every > >>>>> academic > >>>>> quest would focus on learning, but so little on social development. > >>>>>How > >>>>> many scientific articles are dedicated to socio-political questions > >>>>>in > >>>>> the > >>>>> most cited educational journals? I felt very powerless. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> To be able to address these questions within my expertise, is a > >>>>> challenge partly because contrary to Dewey's hope, educational > >>>>> research has > >>>>> only marginally focused on these questions, and yet they may be > >>>>> exactly the > >>>>> question that matter to education. What are we educating for? Indeed, > >>>>> what > >>>>> is education for? I think we face a serious problem when someone > >>>>>(like > >>>>> myself), being an educational researchers/scholar, still has to > >>>>> scratch her > >>>>> head wondering < >>>>> and > >>>>> development?>> Vygotsky would be shocked! > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Alfredo > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >>>>>>> > >>>>> on behalf of mike cole > >>>>>>> Sent: 19 January 2017 04:51 > >>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Learning Sciences in the era of U.S. > >>>>> Nationalism > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Yes Michael, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> It feels like the world of the later 1930's about the time I was > >>>>>>> born as > >>>>>>> that period came down to me through the prism of a family of > >>>>>>> "premature > >>>>>>> anti fascists." > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> For a great re-creation of those times see the highly ambivalent > >>>>>>> film by > >>>>>>> Frank Capra, "meet John Doe." It has American big capital > >>>>>>> interconnected > >>>>>>> with fascism combined with populist collectivism in a manner that > >>>>> points at > >>>>>>> the media (as then experienced) as the bad guys in disguise. Happy > >>>>> Ending, > >>>>>>> Beethoven Ode to Joy and all. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> It's come round again, nastier this time. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Mike > >>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 6:20 PM Glassman, Michael > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Mike > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> It was so interesting to read this note after reading the > >>>>>>>>Cognition > >>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>> Instruction essay. All the way through it I kept thinking we have > >>>>>>>> been > >>>>>>>> here before. It reminded me of the scholars, especially those who > >>>>>>>> had > >>>>>>>> escaped from Germany, trying to make sense of what had happened to > >>>>> their > >>>>>>>> society during World War II. The foremost in my mind was Lewin. > >>>>> Except I > >>>>>>>> wonder if he would say the process of transformative action starts > >>>>>>>> not > >>>>> with > >>>>>>>> emergence of quasi-needs, but our willingness and abilities to > >>>>>>>>step > >>>>> back > >>>>>>>> from our quasi-needs and the ways that they drive us, often to > >>>>>>>> dysfunctional behaviors that it ultimately destructive to both our > >>>>> society > >>>>>>>> and to us as individuals. How hard this is to do, we have to keep > >>>>> going > >>>>>>>> back again and again. The quasi-needs, tribalism, acceptance, > >>>>> standing are > >>>>>>>> always there. It is how they shape us that is critical. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Michael > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto: > >>>>>>>> xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 8:31 PM > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] The Learning Sciences in the era of U.S. > >>>>>>>> Nationalism > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> In following the perezhivanie thread I encountered the note I > >>>>> re-membered. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> And interestingly mis-remembered. A translation into my focus on > >>>>>>>> mediational means. He places the starting point of the process of > >>>>>>>> transformative action at the emergence of quasi-needs (from Kurt > >>>>> Lewin). > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> That seems correct to me. The new mediational means emerge under > >>>>>>>> environmental presses. Ever functionalist ego need a goal(!). (The > >>>>> problem > >>>>>>>> with functionalism) In David's words, > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Perhaps the place we should look for "exaptations" that can save > >>>>>>>> both > >>>>> our > >>>>>>>> personalities and our environment is not in our evolved needs, but > >>>>>>>> in > >>>>> yet > >>>>>>>> to be designed quasi-needs. Artificial organs, after all, always > >>>>> suggest > >>>>>>>> new and ever more artificial functions, like chess and language. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> This point seems worth keeping in mind as we look at where this > >>>>>>>> group > >>>>> of > >>>>>>>> critical scholars who work within the Learning Sciences > >>>>>>>>disciplinary > >>>>>>>> framework would like to lead us. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> mike > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > > > > > > > From mcole@ucsd.edu Sun Feb 5 10:05:02 2017 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 10:05:02 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Perezhivanie and Organic In-Reply-To: <58975ff5.8e3f630a.4fc2a.5fd5@mx.google.com> References: <5893695b.c32f630a.3d640.41ee@mx.google.com> <58975ff5.8e3f630a.4fc2a.5fd5@mx.google.com> Message-ID: It may be of interest, Larry, that performance studies play a significant role in the thinking of my colleagues in the Communication Department here. So there is a thread of history that goes from Dwight Conquergood through Patrick Anderson who was on Beth's disseration committee. You have to see a playworld performed to believe it, as the expression goes. The need for undergraduates to *perform *the after-school activity called the Fifth Dimension was central both to the process of its reproduction over a couple of decades and to the education of the undergraduates who had to figure out how Dewey's ideas were, or were not, helpful in their efforts at star performances. mike mike On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 10:30 AM, wrote: > Another scholar of ?performance studies? is Richard Schechner who posits a > continuum for ?performance? that spans 5 categories: play, games, sports, > theatre, ritual. > Play is ?free? where ritual is ?strictly? programmed or designed, while > games, sports and theatre MEDIATE between these extremes as more play-like > or more ritual-like. > This continuum is basically an elaboration of how performances are > variations on ?ritual? as an encompassing category. > > This allows Schechner to extend the values of ritual into creation of > symbolic reality that pervades the analysis of other performance genres: > play, games, sports, ritual. > > Shechner explains performance studies in the preface to his book > [Performance Studies: An Introduction]: > > Performance studies ? as a practice, a theory, an academic discipline ? is > dynamic, UNFINISHABLE. Whatever it is, it wasn?t exactly that before and > it won?t be exactly that again. > > One dominant metaphor by which performance studies has been figured is > ?the unmapped terrain?. > This metaphor figures uncertainty, ambiguity, navigating the > incomprehensible, the ungraspable, the unsaying at the heart of the > certain, the graspable, the comprehensible, the saying. > > This unmapped terrain may be ??exhilarating? for those scholars and > persons who relish ?not knowing? that is hard to pin down. So too is the > study of ?performance? exhilarating and privileges open-ended questions. > > The potential to illuminate, instruct, an inspire, is enhanced not > diminished by this ever present ?uncertainty?. Don?t try to fix performance > studies down is its central value and if you do the symbolic realm will > become a mere idol. > > By insisting that performance studies cannot be fixed or defined, > performance studies is situated as a NEGATIVE discipline trafficking in > ?denials? and the unsaying of speech. > > This gives a flavour of the way performance studies is posited in > apophatic terms of the unmapped terrain in the fashion of Schechner?s > explorations of the continuum of ritual, play, games, sports, theatre. > > Beth and Monica exploring playworlds and perezhivanie can be put in > dialogue with Schechner. > > I was channelling Claire Chambers above who is deeply engaged with this > performance thematic playing out through historical epochs and becoming > secularized in modern performance studies. > > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > From: Edward Wall > Sent: February 4, 2017 4:10 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Perezhivanie and Organic > > David > > Yes, that was the difference I was noting. Vygotsky in the passages I > was reading seems to using ?organic? as denoting something ?natural,' while > Stanislavsky seemed to using it s somewhat more holistic fashion. > > Ed > > > On Feb 2, 2017, at 3:01 PM, David Kellogg wrote: > > > > The Russian word that Vygotsky uses for "organic" is the same as the word > > we use, and I assume that the same thing is true of the word that > > Stanislavsky used. It is "organic" transliterated into Cyrillic, rather > > than translated into Russian. > > > > What really makes this problem new-thread-worthy is that the meaning of > the > > word "organic" at the end of the nineteenth century is not the same as > the > > word meaning that we use in several important ways. > > > > Take, for example, the crudest possible way: semantic prosody, or the > "good > > vibes" of some words (e.g. "organic food") vs. the "bad vibes" of others > > (e.g. "artificial flavor"). The nineteenth century began with a romantic > > movement towards nature and towards holism ("Gestaltism"), against > dogmatic > > rationalism and atomism. So "organicism" had a semantic prosody that > > involved not only naturalism (which it still does) but also a form of > > proto-structuralism. Organic structure involved a complex whole with > parts > > that are interdependent like organs and not independent like ball > bearings. > > > > Today, this semantic prosody falls on deaf ears. If anything, it's the > > other way around: we know all about cells, and we know that they are > > independant and dispensible in large numbers (you slough off millions > every > > day). But mechanical parts are precisely engineered to fit each other, > and > > for the want of one, the whole machine comes to a grinding halt. > > > > Nevertheless, we can still see this older meaning of organicism in > > Toennies' distinction between Gemeinschaft (community, mechanical > > solidarity) and Gesellschaft (society,organic solidarity) and also in the > > work of Bernsetin (workers have a mechanical solidarity based on likeness > > while middle class people have organic solidarity based on mutual > > instrumentality). > > > > (Of course, there's the same problem. Even working class families have an > > organic solidarity, while it is sometimes hard to believe that white > collar > > office workers sitting at computers in cubicles are anything bt > > mechanical....) > > > > David Kellogg > > Macquarie University > > > > On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 4:20 AM, Edward Wall wrote: > > > >> Stanislavisk seems to consider what is termed ?organic? in his taking up > >> of perezhivanie. Vygotsky also uses the term ?organic,? although as > near as > >> I can tell, without regard to perezhivanie. However, what seems to be > being > >> called ?organic? is very different (or so it seems) in these two cases. > Is > >> the Rusiian different? > >> > >> Ed Wall > >> > >>> On Feb 2, 2017, at 11:15 AM, lpscholar2@gmail.com wrote: > >>> > >>> Beth and Monica explore the phenomena occurring in playworlds > generating > >> perezhivanie. > >>> > >>> Playworlds are performance worlds and these worlds may be exploring the > >> relation of ?unity? and ?difference?. > >>> > >>> Another term that may have relevance when Beth and Monica refer to > >> negating the negation is the operation of ?apophasis?. > >>> William Frank (On What Cannot Be Said) describes the apophatic : > >>> > >>> *In apophasis, which empties language of all positive content, absolute > >> difference cannot be distinguished from absolute unity, even though the > >> respective discourses of difference and unity nominally stand at the > >> antipodes. BOTH configurations, unity and difference, are exposed as > >> relatively arbitrary and, in the end, equally inadequate schemas for > >> articulating what cannot be said. (Franke) > >>> > >>> Claire Chambers in her book (Performance Studies and Negative > >> Epistemology) comments on the above Franke citation : > >>> > >>> *If unity and difference cannot be distinguished from one another (we > >> cannot KNOW what makes them distinct), then it is impossible to > determine > >> what either ?is? ? meaning that knowing and being, epistemology and > >> ontology, are also impossible to distinguish from one another.(Claire > >> Chambers Chapter 1) > >>> > >>> I am not sure how far to go with this theme of : Negating the negation? > >>> I hear this theme in playworlds. > >>> > >>> If this seems relevant, i can post the first chapter of Claire Chambers > >> book. I will just mention that Vygotsky?s Judaic childhood and > adolescence > >> would have encountered this apophatic ?tradition?. > >>> Enough for one probe or possible pivot? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Sent from my Windows 10 phone > >>> > >> > >> > >> > > > > From lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org Sun Feb 5 10:52:10 2017 From: lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org (Lois Holzman) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 13:52:10 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Perezhivanie and Organic In-Reply-To: <58975ff5.8e3f630a.4fc2a.5fd5@mx.google.com> References: <5893695b.c32f630a.3d640.41ee@mx.google.com> <58975ff5.8e3f630a.4fc2a.5fd5@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <9703F9CC-1B3F-45BD-8FB5-5372006B75AF@eastsideinstitute.org> Here are two links to two videos in which Richard Schechner addresses politics and performance studies. He is a pioneer and friend of performance activism. in 2012?https://vimeo.com/54675823 (begins around 57 minutes) in 2016?http://www.performingtheworld.org click on PTW 2016 Plenary Part 1. It?s a conversation between Schechner, Ken Gergen, me and two inner city young women. The set up is long but interesting. The conversation begins with Schechner at around 20 min. Lois Holzman Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy 119 West 23 St, suite 902 New York, NY 10011 Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX Tel. +1.212.941.8906 x324 Fax +1.718.797.3966 lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org Social Media Facebook? | LinkedIn | Twitter Blogs Psychology Today | Psychology of Becoming | Mad in America Websites Lois Holzman | East Side?Institute | Performing the World All Stars Project > On Feb 5, 2017, at 1:30 PM, lpscholar2@gmail.com wrote: > > Another scholar of ?performance studies? is Richard Schechner who posits a continuum for ?performance? that spans 5 categories: play, games, sports, theatre, ritual. > Play is ?free? where ritual is ?strictly? programmed or designed, while games, sports and theatre MEDIATE between these extremes as more play-like or more ritual-like. > This continuum is basically an elaboration of how performances are variations on ?ritual? as an encompassing category. > > This allows Schechner to extend the values of ritual into creation of symbolic reality that pervades the analysis of other performance genres: play, games, sports, ritual. > > Shechner explains performance studies in the preface to his book [Performance Studies: An Introduction]: > > Performance studies ? as a practice, a theory, an academic discipline ? is dynamic, UNFINISHABLE. Whatever it is, it wasn?t exactly that before and it won?t be exactly that again. > > One dominant metaphor by which performance studies has been figured is ?the unmapped terrain?. > This metaphor figures uncertainty, ambiguity, navigating the incomprehensible, the ungraspable, the unsaying at the heart of the certain, the graspable, the comprehensible, the saying. > > This unmapped terrain may be ??exhilarating? for those scholars and persons who relish ?not knowing? that is hard to pin down. So too is the study of ?performance? exhilarating and privileges open-ended questions. > > The potential to illuminate, instruct, an inspire, is enhanced not diminished by this ever present ?uncertainty?. Don?t try to fix performance studies down is its central value and if you do the symbolic realm will become a mere idol. > > By insisting that performance studies cannot be fixed or defined, performance studies is situated as a NEGATIVE discipline trafficking in ?denials? and the unsaying of speech. > > This gives a flavour of the way performance studies is posited in apophatic terms of the unmapped terrain in the fashion of Schechner?s explorations of the continuum of ritual, play, games, sports, theatre. > > Beth and Monica exploring playworlds and perezhivanie can be put in dialogue with Schechner. > > I was channelling Claire Chambers above who is deeply engaged with this performance thematic playing out through historical epochs and becoming secularized in modern performance studies. > > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > From: Edward Wall > Sent: February 4, 2017 4:10 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Perezhivanie and Organic > > David > > Yes, that was the difference I was noting. Vygotsky in the passages I was reading seems to using ?organic? as denoting something ?natural,' while Stanislavsky seemed to using it s somewhat more holistic fashion. > > Ed > >> On Feb 2, 2017, at 3:01 PM, David Kellogg wrote: >> >> The Russian word that Vygotsky uses for "organic" is the same as the word >> we use, and I assume that the same thing is true of the word that >> Stanislavsky used. It is "organic" transliterated into Cyrillic, rather >> than translated into Russian. >> >> What really makes this problem new-thread-worthy is that the meaning of the >> word "organic" at the end of the nineteenth century is not the same as the >> word meaning that we use in several important ways. >> >> Take, for example, the crudest possible way: semantic prosody, or the "good >> vibes" of some words (e.g. "organic food") vs. the "bad vibes" of others >> (e.g. "artificial flavor"). The nineteenth century began with a romantic >> movement towards nature and towards holism ("Gestaltism"), against dogmatic >> rationalism and atomism. So "organicism" had a semantic prosody that >> involved not only naturalism (which it still does) but also a form of >> proto-structuralism. Organic structure involved a complex whole with parts >> that are interdependent like organs and not independent like ball bearings. >> >> Today, this semantic prosody falls on deaf ears. If anything, it's the >> other way around: we know all about cells, and we know that they are >> independant and dispensible in large numbers (you slough off millions every >> day). But mechanical parts are precisely engineered to fit each other, and >> for the want of one, the whole machine comes to a grinding halt. >> >> Nevertheless, we can still see this older meaning of organicism in >> Toennies' distinction between Gemeinschaft (community, mechanical >> solidarity) and Gesellschaft (society,organic solidarity) and also in the >> work of Bernsetin (workers have a mechanical solidarity based on likeness >> while middle class people have organic solidarity based on mutual >> instrumentality). >> >> (Of course, there's the same problem. Even working class families have an >> organic solidarity, while it is sometimes hard to believe that white collar >> office workers sitting at computers in cubicles are anything bt >> mechanical....) >> >> David Kellogg >> Macquarie University >> >> On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 4:20 AM, Edward Wall wrote: >> >>> Stanislavisk seems to consider what is termed ?organic? in his taking up >>> of perezhivanie. Vygotsky also uses the term ?organic,? although as near as >>> I can tell, without regard to perezhivanie. However, what seems to be being >>> called ?organic? is very different (or so it seems) in these two cases. Is >>> the Rusiian different? >>> >>> Ed Wall >>> >>>> On Feb 2, 2017, at 11:15 AM, lpscholar2@gmail.com wrote: >>>> >>>> Beth and Monica explore the phenomena occurring in playworlds generating >>> perezhivanie. >>>> >>>> Playworlds are performance worlds and these worlds may be exploring the >>> relation of ?unity? and ?difference?. >>>> >>>> Another term that may have relevance when Beth and Monica refer to >>> negating the negation is the operation of ?apophasis?. >>>> William Frank (On What Cannot Be Said) describes the apophatic : >>>> >>>> *In apophasis, which empties language of all positive content, absolute >>> difference cannot be distinguished from absolute unity, even though the >>> respective discourses of difference and unity nominally stand at the >>> antipodes. BOTH configurations, unity and difference, are exposed as >>> relatively arbitrary and, in the end, equally inadequate schemas for >>> articulating what cannot be said. (Franke) >>>> >>>> Claire Chambers in her book (Performance Studies and Negative >>> Epistemology) comments on the above Franke citation : >>>> >>>> *If unity and difference cannot be distinguished from one another (we >>> cannot KNOW what makes them distinct), then it is impossible to determine >>> what either ?is? ? meaning that knowing and being, epistemology and >>> ontology, are also impossible to distinguish from one another.(Claire >>> Chambers Chapter 1) >>>> >>>> I am not sure how far to go with this theme of : Negating the negation? >>>> I hear this theme in playworlds. >>>> >>>> If this seems relevant, i can post the first chapter of Claire Chambers >>> book. I will just mention that Vygotsky?s Judaic childhood and adolescence >>> would have encountered this apophatic ?tradition?. >>>> Enough for one probe or possible pivot? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my Windows 10 phone >>>> >>> >>> >>> > > > From mcole@ucsd.edu Sun Feb 5 10:54:10 2017 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 10:54:10 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Learning Sciences in the era of U.S. Nationalism In-Reply-To: References: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F903C71964@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <1485073527094.7145@iped.uio.no> <5E5B95EA-374F-48EB-B308-BCE49DA52760@gmail.com> <1485113892233.91870@iped.uio.no> <7BD412C4-D775-4D3A-9992-68ACACFB188C@gmail.com> <8004DEFF-7DEE-4D14-8B25-721A97DE1384@gmail.com> Message-ID: I would like to link Julian's comments below to Anna's school project in Argentina. Julian, in dialogue with Helena, wrote: I think what the Cognition & Instruction authors were suggesting was that the Learning sciences could be more 'part of the solution' if they develop a progressive perspective/agenda for their LS research? e.g. Critiquing the 'what works' type of domination of the field. Im OK with that. I will let the LS authors comment for themselves, but I worry about stopping the process at critique. (This argument, too, goes back to the 1930's and the struggle against fascism then, which I agree is totally relevant.). The next step I am gesturing toward is to seek to seek to create alternatives based on the principles/values that you want to see realized and your analysis of where, in the current turbulent state of human history, such activities can actually be implemented as a condition for testing your ideas about worthy alternatives, e.g., the process of reflexive thinking that seems essential to critical-theoretical research. With respect to the sort of effort that Ana's work exemplifies, if I were an active member of my faculty, I would be seeking to provide strong links between the courses I taught and such community-based activities, ordinarily beyond the University's horizon, in order to benefit my teaching and my research while providing critical resources for the community project as well as sources of self critique and education. There is an official three-fold mission of the University of California upon which every faculty member is evaluated: teaching, research, and service. Activities which satisfy these three criteria while promoting democratic educational practices might also satisfy the strategies in the Critical Learning Science piece. The melding of these three domains is an agreed upon ideal of the university. Championing their fulfillment is a patriotic as apple pie. In rhetoric. Upholding that ideal while challenging current practices of education, research, and service that degrade that ideal?? Naive? Misguided? mike On Tue, Jan 24, 2017 at 10:38 AM, Julian Williams < julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk> wrote: > Helena, yes that was it 'Pride'! > > The second part of the question you posed: > > I lazily used 'transposition' and its not Bourdieu's word: he argues that > every cultural field has a power structure that is to a large degree > homologous to THE FIELD OF POWER whose basis is largely that of economic > capital, albeit that there is some 'autonomous' structure of cultural > capital in the field that implies there is 'work' to be done in > transforming economic capital into cultural capital and vice versa (you > can't simply 'buy' the papacy or the presidential palace, but money plus > other capitals might do the trick). I wrote about this a bit in a recent > MCA paper (Choudry & Williams 2016?). > > In this view then the academic field(s) of power might be revealed as > being a 'transposed' (if you forgive my short-hand for Bourdieu's > perspective) version of that of the Field of Power at large, which is in > turn transposed into the gender politics field that the women > marchers/LGBT activists are engaged in. > > The right kind of social analysis is supposed to help the gay pride > marchers to recognise that they are on the same side as the striking > miners; failures to get this right and make this visible is the main > reason why Trump and Co can win, and why Trumps may be even a necessary > risk for the ruling class to break up the resistance to their domination > in tough times (i.e. The Davos crowd would rather do it the Clintons' way, > but in hard times fascism may be needed to culturally dispossess the > already dispossessed so they can be crushed). > > > Now I go to the first part of your question: > > I like the way you put it here - and it points to a weakness in Bourdieu's > reflexive sociology (he sees it as the job of the sociologist-activist to > raise consciousness; while Id say with Freire that it is all our jobs). > > It is true that even though I should be expected (as a well-paid and > comfortably middle-classed professional) to side with conservatism, I find > myself culturally disposed to side with the oppressed, e.g. supporting > Momentum and the Labour left. The oppressed can have many allies on this > basis as well as those who actually are economically and politically > crushed. > > But then I am torn: there are many things that I 'have to do' to maintain > a position of power in the academic field that are downright exploitative > and oppressive. So in my academic work I may (at least sometimes) be part > of the problem rather than the solution. I think what the Cognition & > Instruction authors were suggesting was that the Learning sciences could > be more 'part of the solution' if they develop a progressive > perspective/agenda for their LS research? e.g. Critiquing the 'what works' > type of domination of the field. Im OK with that. > > Hope this makes some sense and I didn't 'lose the momentum' of the thread. > > julian > > > > > On 24/01/2017 04:29, "xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Helena > Worthen" helenaworthen@gmail.com> wrote: > > >Julian, the movie you?re thinking of is Pride. > > > >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pride_(2014_film) > > > >Are you suggesting stepping from looking at and studying identity groups > >to ?coming out? as being a member of one, and then in full feather of > >one?s identity, relating to the stranger across the aisle? > > > >But could you please explain what this means: ??..whose cultural capital > >in his analysis is a transposition of the dominant economic, capitalist > >class.? What does ?transposition? mean here? > > > >Thanks ? > > > > > >Helena Worthen > >helenaworthen@gmail.com > >Berkeley, CA 94707 > >Blog about US and Viet Nam: helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > > > > > > >> On Jan 23, 2017, at 10:49 AM, Julian Williams > >> wrote: > >> > >> Dear Helena and all > >> > >> The victories of the right in the US and Europe surely cannot be > >>explained > >> only by cultural identity issues, and not only by the disaffection of > >>the > >> workers with their traditional (-ly hopeless social democratic) parties, > >> though these are important elements of the situation that are making the > >> far right a possible option for capital. > >> > >> Surely we have to look at the global failure of capitalism: the reasons > >> are essentially economic. Our rulers seem ever more desperate to manage > >>a > >> rate of profit that will satisfy capital and it seems a small portion of > >> them are prepared to back the far right as an option on the political > >> field if necessary. Not yet a significant minority of the Davos class, > >> because they still need to be convinced that the traditional order > >>cannot > >> be made to work, but the Murdoch's and the UKIP/ Tory petit bourgeois > >> backbone are nearly there already: Trump himself is pretty much there, > >>as > >> is Le Pen et al, .. > >> > >> Within this context, and more if/when another 2008 crash hits, the > >>fascist > >> strategy will grow more attractive as the rightist parties attract more > >> disaffected workers, non-workers and petit bourgeois. All the > >> cultural-ideological elements of fascism and nationalism are there in > >>the > >> Uk and France/Netherlands etc just as bad as in Trumpland. (Hey Trump > >> didn't even get the majority vote - on any democratic conception he has > >>no > >> right to have been declared a winner?. Unless we can declare 'Remain' a > >> victory because its 48% vote is represented in our parliament by a > >> majority of the representatives?) > >> > >> What can 'we' do? Only to keep trying to clarify it, keep telling it as > >>it > >> is and might be. What part a conceptualisation of perezhivanie has in > >>this > >> I don't know - but it might be worth re-reading 'The struggle against > >> fascism in Germany' again (not being ironic). The lesson then/there was > >>to > >> block with Social Democracy and labour unions/parties while explaining > >>its > >> failures, helping their support to move left as well as showing there is > >> an alternative to the alternative (here we have Corbyn and momentum; the > >> US have Bernie and ?). > >> > >> But maybe this strategy is not enough? What else? I think there are > >> important interventions also in the cultural fields and so identity is > >>an > >> issue for capital. I wrote a bit about this from Bourdieu's perspective? > >> what progressives in every field have in common is that they resist the > >> dominant powers in their cultural field - whose cultural capital in his > >> analysis is a transposition of the dominant economic, capitalist class. > >> That?s what LGBT, underprivileged groups, national/ethnic minorities, > >>etc > >> everywhere have in common, if we can be helped to see it? like that film > >> of the gay rights activists from London who marched to South Wales to > >> support the miners strike? and the miners who in returned joined a gay > >> rights march in London? what was that called? > >> > >> Julian. > >> > >> > >> > >> On 23/01/2017 17:55, "xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of > >>Helena > >> Worthen" >> helenaworthen@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >>> Well, yes. Good question: How? I take it Francine is not asking this > >>> ironically: she really wants us to figure out how. > >>> > >>> The challenge is to answer the question. > >>> > >>> I don?t think any of us have a quick answer, but it certainly is a > >>> question that is within our collective knowledge to address. > >>> > >>> H > >>> > >>> Helena Worthen > >>> helenaworthen@gmail.com > >>> Berkeley, CA 94707 > >>> Blog about US and Viet Nam: helenaworthen.wordpress.com > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> On Jan 22, 2017, at 7:32 PM, Larry Smolucha > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Message from Francine Smolucha: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> The key to an analysis of the Trump movement is understanding the > >>>> > >>>> fundamental IRONIES that have rocked American politics. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> The workers revolution has resulted in the > >>>> > >>>> workers/unions deserting the Left, the socialists, the Democratic > >>>>Party. > >>>> > >>>> Trump is a Capitalist regardless of whether he actually has a > >>>> Republican ideology. > >>>> > >>>> The workers' movement has been hijacked by a capitalist. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> The other great IRONY is that Trump wants to make Russia a U.S. ally > >>>> (again). > >>>> > >>>> The Left, the socialists, the Democratic Party are the ones demonizing > >>>> Russia - > >>>> > >>>> what a reversal! > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Since CHAT derives from Russian psychology (Leontiev and Vygotsky) and > >>>> the backlash against Trump is also a backlash against all things > >>>>Russian > >>>> - this puts CHAT in a particularly awkward position. How can a > >>>>cultural > >>>> historical psychology that originated in Russia become the leader in > >>>>the > >>>> anti-Trump discourse? or lead an anti-Trump educational movement? You > >>>> are even extolling a Russian concept PEREZHIVANIE. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> I think the XMCA needs to examine its own perezhivanie at this time. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ________________________________ > >>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >>>> > >>>> on behalf of mike cole > >>>> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2017 3:01 PM > >>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>>> Cc: Mariane Hedegaard; Reijo Miettinen; Seth Chaiklin > >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Learning Sciences in the era of U.S. > >>>> Nationalism > >>>> > >>>> Helena et al -- > >>>> > >>>> An important emphasis in the article for me was on the fact that > >>>> although > >>>> the article focused on the American nationalist movement that has just > >>>> pulled of an alt-right coup, similar movements are poised to take hold > >>>> in a > >>>> lot of places in Europe to join the many already entrenched unsavory > >>>> governments in other parts of the world. > >>>> > >>>> The CRADLE center in Helsinki is under very concerted attack and the > >>>> right > >>>> wing government appears, from this distance, to be making great > >>>> progress on > >>>> destroying its legacy. The same process has been in Denmark for some > >>>> time, > >>>> also with apparent success. > >>>> > >>>> What do our international colleagues who have already felt the hot > >>>> breath > >>>> of right wing nationalism have to offer in terms of strategies of > >>>> resistence? > >>>> > >>>> Back to "what is to be done," that sombre question from an earlier > >>>>era. > >>>> The > >>>> answer last time did not produce what it promised. > >>>> > >>>> mike > >>>> > >>>> mike > >>>> > >>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2017 at 12:22 PM, Helena Worthen > >>>> > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Thank you, Alfredo - I gave it a read. > >>>>> > >>>>> Sure, of course they?re right. But I am very disappointed. > >>>>> > >>>>> I was hoping that the following was only item #1 in a long list of > >>>>> "what > >>>>> the 2016 election made apparent": > >>>>> > >>>>> The 2016 election has made apparent the need for scholarship that > >>>>> explicitly defends and furthers the rights and well-being of people > >>>>>of > >>>>> color, immigrants, Muslims, women, people who are differently abled, > >>>>> LGBTQ > >>>>> communities, and the earth. These are stances that have been limited, > >>>>> at > >>>>> least explicitly, in the Learning Sciences. > >>>>> > >>>>> But the call for inclusion was not just #1, it seems to be the whole > >>>>> thing. In other words, it?s all about identity ?plus the earth, of > >>>>> course. > >>>>> While inclusion is necessary, it?s not even a start. Yes, research, > >>>>> teaching, publishing, promotion, conferences ? everything associated > >>>>> with > >>>>> teaching and learning has to include everyone as equals (see Andy?s > >>>>> book) > >>>>> in one way or another ? but then what? What are they (we) supposed to > >>>>> do? > >>>>> Where does the pretty language touch the ground? > >>>>> > >>>>> I was listening to a broadcast of the Women?s March in DC on Saturday > >>>>> morning, and Kamala Harris, who was the California State Attorney > >>>>> General > >>>>> and is now a junior Senator from CA, was addressing the rally. She > >>>>> said, > >>>>> ?People always ask me to talk about women?s issues. I say, ?Oh, I?m > >>>>>SO > >>>>> glad > >>>>> you?re interested in economics!! Let?s talk about economics.? And > >>>>>she > >>>>> ran > >>>>> through a whole set of parallel back-and-forths, always pulling > >>>>> identity > >>>>> questions back to wages, jobs, earning, supporting your family, etc > >>>>> etc. > >>>>> > >>>>> Much as we need to wipe away any barriers to the Learning Sciences > >>>>>(and > >>>>> the professions and institutions dedicated to them) due to identity, > >>>>> until > >>>>> the Learning Sciences start taking a look at the place where most > >>>>> people > >>>>> spend most of their lives ? not school, I mean ? but work, they will > >>>>>be > >>>>> engaging in a soft conversation at the edge of the real issue. It?s a > >>>>> pleasant conversation but it doesn?t put a hand on the levers that > >>>>> translate skill and knowledge into rent and groceries. > >>>>> > >>>>> H > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Helena Worthen > >>>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com > >>>>> Berkeley, CA 94707 > >>>>> Blog about US and Viet Nam: helenaworthen.wordpress.com > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> On Jan 22, 2017, at 11:38 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > >>>>>> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Here it is, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://cognitionandinstruction.com/engagements-the-learning- > >>>>> sciences-in-a-new-era-of-u-s-nationalism/ > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Alfredo > >>>>>> ________________________________________ > >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >>>>>> > >>>>> on behalf of Helena Worthen > >>>>>> Sent: 22 January 2017 20:24 > >>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Learning Sciences in the era of U.S. > >>>>> Nationalism > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Someone please re-send the link to this article? I think I?m going > >>>>>>to > >>>>> want to read it and respond to Mike?s question. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Thanks ? H > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Helena Worthen > >>>>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com > >>>>>> Berkeley, CA 94707 > >>>>>> Blog about US and Viet Nam: helenaworthen.wordpress.com > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Jan 22, 2017, at 12:25 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > >>>>>>> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Mike, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> thanks a lot for sharing this article. You and Michael, who have > >>>>>>>and > >>>>> know more history, have spoken in terms of reminiscences. I have > >>>>>lived > >>>>> and > >>>>> know less, and the article feels like fresh air. During my PhD, I > >>>>> begun to > >>>>> increasingly feel that I had to due something to act and respond to > >>>>>the > >>>>> increasing ecological and humanitarian globe crises. But how could I > >>>>>do > >>>>> anything if I had children and a PhD to finalise?? What could I do > >>>>>that > >>>>> would also be doing my job as researcher in a department of > >>>>>education? > >>>>> It > >>>>> was very difficult to find anything, partly because almost every > >>>>> academic > >>>>> quest would focus on learning, but so little on social development. > >>>>>How > >>>>> many scientific articles are dedicated to socio-political questions > >>>>>in > >>>>> the > >>>>> most cited educational journals? I felt very powerless. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> To be able to address these questions within my expertise, is a > >>>>> challenge partly because contrary to Dewey's hope, educational > >>>>> research has > >>>>> only marginally focused on these questions, and yet they may be > >>>>> exactly the > >>>>> question that matter to education. What are we educating for? Indeed, > >>>>> what > >>>>> is education for? I think we face a serious problem when someone > >>>>>(like > >>>>> myself), being an educational researchers/scholar, still has to > >>>>> scratch her > >>>>> head wondering < >>>>> and > >>>>> development?>> Vygotsky would be shocked! > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Alfredo > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >>>>>>> > >>>>> on behalf of mike cole > >>>>>>> Sent: 19 January 2017 04:51 > >>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Learning Sciences in the era of U.S. > >>>>> Nationalism > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Yes Michael, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> It feels like the world of the later 1930's about the time I was > >>>>>>> born as > >>>>>>> that period came down to me through the prism of a family of > >>>>>>> "premature > >>>>>>> anti fascists." > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> For a great re-creation of those times see the highly ambivalent > >>>>>>> film by > >>>>>>> Frank Capra, "meet John Doe." It has American big capital > >>>>>>> interconnected > >>>>>>> with fascism combined with populist collectivism in a manner that > >>>>> points at > >>>>>>> the media (as then experienced) as the bad guys in disguise. Happy > >>>>> Ending, > >>>>>>> Beethoven Ode to Joy and all. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> It's come round again, nastier this time. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Mike > >>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 6:20 PM Glassman, Michael > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Mike > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> It was so interesting to read this note after reading the > >>>>>>>>Cognition > >>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>> Instruction essay. All the way through it I kept thinking we have > >>>>>>>> been > >>>>>>>> here before. It reminded me of the scholars, especially those who > >>>>>>>> had > >>>>>>>> escaped from Germany, trying to make sense of what had happened to > >>>>> their > >>>>>>>> society during World War II. The foremost in my mind was Lewin. > >>>>> Except I > >>>>>>>> wonder if he would say the process of transformative action starts > >>>>>>>> not > >>>>> with > >>>>>>>> emergence of quasi-needs, but our willingness and abilities to > >>>>>>>>step > >>>>> back > >>>>>>>> from our quasi-needs and the ways that they drive us, often to > >>>>>>>> dysfunctional behaviors that it ultimately destructive to both our > >>>>> society > >>>>>>>> and to us as individuals. How hard this is to do, we have to keep > >>>>> going > >>>>>>>> back again and again. The quasi-needs, tribalism, acceptance, > >>>>> standing are > >>>>>>>> always there. It is how they shape us that is critical. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Michael > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto: > >>>>>>>> xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 8:31 PM > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] The Learning Sciences in the era of U.S. > >>>>>>>> Nationalism > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> In following the perezhivanie thread I encountered the note I > >>>>> re-membered. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> And interestingly mis-remembered. A translation into my focus on > >>>>>>>> mediational means. He places the starting point of the process of > >>>>>>>> transformative action at the emergence of quasi-needs (from Kurt > >>>>> Lewin). > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> That seems correct to me. The new mediational means emerge under > >>>>>>>> environmental presses. Ever functionalist ego need a goal(!). (The > >>>>> problem > >>>>>>>> with functionalism) In David's words, > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Perhaps the place we should look for "exaptations" that can save > >>>>>>>> both > >>>>> our > >>>>>>>> personalities and our environment is not in our evolved needs, but > >>>>>>>> in > >>>>> yet > >>>>>>>> to be designed quasi-needs. Artificial organs, after all, always > >>>>> suggest > >>>>>>>> new and ever more artificial functions, like chess and language. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> This point seems worth keeping in mind as we look at where this > >>>>>>>> group > >>>>> of > >>>>>>>> critical scholars who work within the Learning Sciences > >>>>>>>>disciplinary > >>>>>>>> framework would like to lead us. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> mike > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > > > > > > > From glassman.13@osu.edu Sun Feb 5 10:56:45 2017 From: glassman.13@osu.edu (Glassman, Michael) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 18:56:45 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Learning Sciences in the era of U.S. Nationalism In-Reply-To: References: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F903C71964@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <1485073527094.7145@iped.uio.no> <5E5B95EA-374F-48EB-B308-BCE49DA52760@gmail.com> <1485113892233.91870@iped.uio.no> <7BD412C4-D775-4D3A-9992-68ACACFB188C@gmail.com> <8004DEFF-7DEE-4D14-8B25-721A97DE1384@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F903C80E4C@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> I wonder if we sometimes fall in to a trap of thinking the system works that way that it works and we need to find ways around it. The idea of critique has a number of meanings depending on how you use it; and maybe the most powerful is that you not only critique power structures, but you critique yourself and the part that you play in the power structure, not as an admonishment but as a chance to see a doorway into something new. I am still struggling with these idea so I hope anybody who is reading will bear with me - in the earlier language of this list more than a little half-baked. I am also struggling with the roles I sometimes play in these power structures, being accepting or even supportive of them when I recognize the difficulties that they present. I have for the past year or so been exploring the tied between the early computer/Internet culture and CIDOC, Ivan Illich's language school, ideas incubator down in Mexico in the early seventies. There are a number of inter-relationships between CIDOC, (especially second order) cybernetics, the early computer pioneers, the anti-war movement and the commune movement. I won't go in to all of them now, not least because I'm not sure I have a really good handle on them. But I recently read something from Heinz von Foerster that describes much of the thinking, "If I do not know I am blind, I am blind. If I know I am blind, I see." The purpose of a lot of what was going on with Illich, with his close friend Freire, with connections to those looking to create new ways of doing things in Latin America and in San Francisco/Menlo Park was creating a context where people know they were blind, that what was critically important was what they could not see (if anybody has the chance to read von Foerster's talk, "On constructing reality," it is a very interesting read). There was it seems to me a historical moment in which the denizens of the information revolution could choose between following activities that helped them understand they were blind, and not admitting the possibilities of blindness, because they how could you be an expert. Our society, with a strong helping hand from academia decided in favor of the expert, and those who knew (perhaps we made a deal with the devil). I say all this because in reading articles from the sixties and the seventies I begin to see among a number of important thinkers an openness to looking for what they could not see, often times with humor or genuine curiosity, that you do not see in much of the writing of today. The choice of the power structure of academia was just that, a choice. The reality we are dealing with now was constructed as a point of reference for political and socio-economic purposes. And because it can be constructed, it can be reconstructed. I can hear Mike whispering, but what is the concrete to that. Maybe we are at another turning point in history. I think many students are ready to do the type of work that is more participatory, more immediate oriented in nature, but they do need publications. We can try and change the structure of the university, but then we need to offer something in its place. Or we can change the structure of acknowledgement. Could we petition journals like Cognition and Instruction to devote half their journal to the types of articles that speak to blindness, not necessarily critiques but realizations of what people engaged in research are not seeing. Being more accepting of participatory approaches to understanding the world around us. I mean in the end the journals don't exist separately from us, they are us. One day some researchers will come to one of those famous meet the editors sessions at major journals perhaps and like Martin Luther nail a list of demands to the door (figuratively of course). Teaching is more difficult (although changing journals would be difficult enough) because the idea of education as a business has become deeply ingrained. The idea of schools creating students who can get jobs in industry rather than make a better society is deeply enmeshed in our system now (and if you argue with it they ask, "Oh, I agree, but don't students' need jobs). Scarcity is used as a thunderous hammer to keep everybody in line - Illich was right about this I think. And if you argue within the context of scarcity you have already lost (where is scarcity when we want a new fighter plane for our menagerie?}. I wonder if perhaps we can change from within. Rather than recruiting chairs and deans and even presidents that they are voted on by the faculty and serve for limited periods. So that it becomes reflective of the people who actually live and think about these issues. This is how higher education administration is actually done in some other societies, why not here? But universities won't let that happen, but aren't we the universities. So not critique in the sense of telling people they are wrong, but in terms of saying to people, think about what you're not seeing. Like I said, half baked. And far too long for a list like this, so I apologize for that. Michael -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2017 12:28 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity ; herasmonnersans@gmail.com Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Learning Sciences in the era of U.S. Nationalism I would like to pick link Julian's comments below to Anna's school project in Argentina. Julian, in dialogue with Helena, wrote: I think what the Cognition & Instruction authors were suggesting was that the Learning sciences could be more 'part of the solution' if they develop a progressive perspective/agenda for their LS research? e.g. Critiquing the 'what works' type of domination of the field. Im OK with that. I will let the LS authors comment for themselves, but I worry about stopping the process at critique. (This argument, too, goes back to the 1930's and the struggle against fascism then, which I agree is totally relevant.). The next step is to seek to seek to create alternatives based on the principles/values that you want to see realized and your analysis of where, in the current turbulent state of human history, such can actually be implemented as a condition for testing your ideas about worthy alternatives, e.g., the process of reflexive thinking. With respect to the sort of effort that Ana's work exemplifies, if I were an active member of my fac- ulty, I would be seeking to provide strong links between the courses I taught and the community-based activities, ordinarily beyond the University's horizon in order to benefit my teaching and my research while providing critical resources for building as well as sources of self critique. There is an official three-fold mission of the University of California upon which every faculty member is evaluated: teaching, research, and service. Activities which satisfy these three criteria while promoting democratic educational practices might also satisfy the strategies in the Critical Learning Science piece. This route does not eliminate the issue of power academic politics within the University which mitigate against research of this type, but it can be done. Or it could be done during the past half century. Whether or not it can be done in the current circumstances is under severe challenge. mike mike PS- In On Tue, Jan 24, 2017 at 10:38 AM, Julian Williams < julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk> wrote: > Helena, yes that was it 'Pride'! > > The second part of the question you posed: > > I lazily used 'transposition' and its not Bourdieu's word: he argues > that every cultural field has a power structure that is to a large > degree homologous to THE FIELD OF POWER whose basis is largely that of > economic capital, albeit that there is some 'autonomous' structure of > cultural capital in the field that implies there is 'work' to be done > in transforming economic capital into cultural capital and vice versa > (you can't simply 'buy' the papacy or the presidential palace, but > money plus other capitals might do the trick). I wrote about this a > bit in a recent MCA paper (Choudry & Williams 2016?). > > In this view then the academic field(s) of power might be revealed as > being a 'transposed' (if you forgive my short-hand for Bourdieu's > perspective) version of that of the Field of Power at large, which is > in turn transposed into the gender politics field that the women > marchers/LGBT activists are engaged in. > > The right kind of social analysis is supposed to help the gay pride > marchers to recognise that they are on the same side as the striking > miners; failures to get this right and make this visible is the main > reason why Trump and Co can win, and why Trumps may be even a > necessary risk for the ruling class to break up the resistance to > their domination in tough times (i.e. The Davos crowd would rather do > it the Clintons' way, but in hard times fascism may be needed to > culturally dispossess the already dispossessed so they can be crushed). > > > Now I go to the first part of your question: > > I like the way you put it here - and it points to a weakness in > Bourdieu's reflexive sociology (he sees it as the job of the > sociologist-activist to raise consciousness; while Id say with Freire that it is all our jobs). > > It is true that even though I should be expected (as a well-paid and > comfortably middle-classed professional) to side with conservatism, I > find myself culturally disposed to side with the oppressed, e.g. > supporting Momentum and the Labour left. The oppressed can have many > allies on this basis as well as those who actually are economically > and politically crushed. > > But then I am torn: there are many things that I 'have to do' to > maintain a position of power in the academic field that are downright > exploitative and oppressive. So in my academic work I may (at least > sometimes) be part of the problem rather than the solution. I think > what the Cognition & Instruction authors were suggesting was that the > Learning sciences could be more 'part of the solution' if they develop > a progressive perspective/agenda for their LS research? e.g. Critiquing the 'what works' > type of domination of the field. Im OK with that. > > Hope this makes some sense and I didn't 'lose the momentum' of the thread. > > julian > > > > > On 24/01/2017 04:29, "xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of > Helena Worthen" helenaworthen@gmail.com> wrote: > > >Julian, the movie you?re thinking of is Pride. > > > >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pride_(2014_film) > > > >Are you suggesting stepping from looking at and studying identity > >groups to ?coming out? as being a member of one, and then in full > >feather of one?s identity, relating to the stranger across the aisle? > > > >But could you please explain what this means: ??..whose cultural > >capital in his analysis is a transposition of the dominant economic, > >capitalist class.? What does ?transposition? mean here? > > > >Thanks ? > > > > > >Helena Worthen > >helenaworthen@gmail.com > >Berkeley, CA 94707 > >Blog about US and Viet Nam: helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > > > > > > >> On Jan 23, 2017, at 10:49 AM, Julian Williams > >> wrote: > >> > >> Dear Helena and all > >> > >> The victories of the right in the US and Europe surely cannot be > >>explained only by cultural identity issues, and not only by the > >>disaffection of the workers with their traditional (-ly hopeless > >>social democratic) parties, though these are important elements of > >>the situation that are making the far right a possible option for > >>capital. > >> > >> Surely we have to look at the global failure of capitalism: the > >>reasons are essentially economic. Our rulers seem ever more > >>desperate to manage a rate of profit that will satisfy capital and > >>it seems a small portion of them are prepared to back the far right > >>as an option on the political field if necessary. Not yet a > >>significant minority of the Davos class, because they still need to > >>be convinced that the traditional order cannot be made to work, but > >>the Murdoch's and the UKIP/ Tory petit bourgeois backbone are > >>nearly there already: Trump himself is pretty much there, as is Le > >>Pen et al, .. > >> > >> Within this context, and more if/when another 2008 crash hits, the > >>fascist strategy will grow more attractive as the rightist parties > >>attract more disaffected workers, non-workers and petit bourgeois. > >>All the cultural-ideological elements of fascism and nationalism > >>are there in the Uk and France/Netherlands etc just as bad as in > >>Trumpland. (Hey Trump didn't even get the majority vote - on any > >>democratic conception he has no right to have been declared a > >>winner?. Unless we can declare 'Remain' a victory because its 48% > >>vote is represented in our parliament by a majority of the > >>representatives?) > >> > >> What can 'we' do? Only to keep trying to clarify it, keep telling > >>it as it is and might be. What part a conceptualisation of > >>perezhivanie has in this I don't know - but it might be worth > >>re-reading 'The struggle against fascism in Germany' again (not > >>being ironic). The lesson then/there was to block with Social > >>Democracy and labour unions/parties while explaining its failures, > >>helping their support to move left as well as showing there is an > >>alternative to the alternative (here we have Corbyn and momentum; > >>the US have Bernie and ?). > >> > >> But maybe this strategy is not enough? What else? I think there are > >>important interventions also in the cultural fields and so identity > >>is an issue for capital. I wrote a bit about this from Bourdieu's > >>perspective? what progressives in every field have in common is > >>that they resist the dominant powers in their cultural field - > >>whose cultural capital in his analysis is a transposition of the > >>dominant economic, capitalist class. > >> That?s what LGBT, underprivileged groups, national/ethnic > >>minorities, etc everywhere have in common, if we can be helped to > >>see it? like that film of the gay rights activists from London who > >>marched to South Wales to support the miners strike? and the miners > >>who in returned joined a gay rights march in London? what was that > >>called? > >> > >> Julian. > >> > >> > >> > >> On 23/01/2017 17:55, "xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of > >>Helena Worthen" >>helenaworthen@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >>> Well, yes. Good question: How? I take it Francine is not asking > >>> this > >>> ironically: she really wants us to figure out how. > >>> > >>> The challenge is to answer the question. > >>> > >>> I don?t think any of us have a quick answer, but it certainly is a > >>> question that is within our collective knowledge to address. > >>> > >>> H > >>> > >>> Helena Worthen > >>> helenaworthen@gmail.com > >>> Berkeley, CA 94707 > >>> Blog about US and Viet Nam: helenaworthen.wordpress.com > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> On Jan 22, 2017, at 7:32 PM, Larry Smolucha > >>>> > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Message from Francine Smolucha: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> The key to an analysis of the Trump movement is understanding the > >>>> > >>>> fundamental IRONIES that have rocked American politics. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> The workers revolution has resulted in the > >>>> > >>>> workers/unions deserting the Left, the socialists, the Democratic > >>>>Party. > >>>> > >>>> Trump is a Capitalist regardless of whether he actually has a > >>>> Republican ideology. > >>>> > >>>> The workers' movement has been hijacked by a capitalist. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> The other great IRONY is that Trump wants to make Russia a U.S. > >>>> ally (again). > >>>> > >>>> The Left, the socialists, the Democratic Party are the ones > >>>> demonizing Russia - > >>>> > >>>> what a reversal! > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Since CHAT derives from Russian psychology (Leontiev and > >>>>Vygotsky) and the backlash against Trump is also a backlash > >>>>against all things Russian > >>>> - this puts CHAT in a particularly awkward position. How can a > >>>>cultural historical psychology that originated in Russia become > >>>>the leader in the anti-Trump discourse? or lead an anti-Trump > >>>>educational movement? You are even extolling a Russian concept > >>>>PEREZHIVANIE. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> I think the XMCA needs to examine its own perezhivanie at this time. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ________________________________ > >>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >>>> > >>>> on behalf of mike cole > >>>> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2017 3:01 PM > >>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>>> Cc: Mariane Hedegaard; Reijo Miettinen; Seth Chaiklin > >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Learning Sciences in the era of U.S. > >>>> Nationalism > >>>> > >>>> Helena et al -- > >>>> > >>>> An important emphasis in the article for me was on the fact that > >>>> although the article focused on the American nationalist movement > >>>> that has just pulled of an alt-right coup, similar movements are > >>>> poised to take hold in a lot of places in Europe to join the many > >>>> already entrenched unsavory governments in other parts of the > >>>> world. > >>>> > >>>> The CRADLE center in Helsinki is under very concerted attack and > >>>> the right wing government appears, from this distance, to be > >>>> making great progress on destroying its legacy. The same process > >>>> has been in Denmark for some time, also with apparent success. > >>>> > >>>> What do our international colleagues who have already felt the > >>>> hot breath of right wing nationalism have to offer in terms of > >>>> strategies of resistence? > >>>> > >>>> Back to "what is to be done," that sombre question from an > >>>>earlier era. > >>>> The > >>>> answer last time did not produce what it promised. > >>>> > >>>> mike > >>>> > >>>> mike > >>>> > >>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2017 at 12:22 PM, Helena Worthen > >>>> > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Thank you, Alfredo - I gave it a read. > >>>>> > >>>>> Sure, of course they?re right. But I am very disappointed. > >>>>> > >>>>> I was hoping that the following was only item #1 in a long list > >>>>> of "what the 2016 election made apparent": > >>>>> > >>>>> The 2016 election has made apparent the need for scholarship > >>>>>that explicitly defends and furthers the rights and well-being > >>>>>of people of color, immigrants, Muslims, women, people who are > >>>>>differently abled, LGBTQ communities, and the earth. These are > >>>>>stances that have been limited, at least explicitly, in the > >>>>>Learning Sciences. > >>>>> > >>>>> But the call for inclusion was not just #1, it seems to be the > >>>>> whole thing. In other words, it?s all about identity ?plus the > >>>>> earth, of course. > >>>>> While inclusion is necessary, it?s not even a start. Yes, > >>>>> research, teaching, publishing, promotion, conferences ? > >>>>> everything associated with teaching and learning has to include > >>>>> everyone as equals (see Andy?s > >>>>> book) > >>>>> in one way or another ? but then what? What are they (we) > >>>>> supposed to do? > >>>>> Where does the pretty language touch the ground? > >>>>> > >>>>> I was listening to a broadcast of the Women?s March in DC on > >>>>>Saturday morning, and Kamala Harris, who was the California > >>>>>State Attorney General and is now a junior Senator from CA, was > >>>>>addressing the rally. She said, ?People always ask me to talk > >>>>>about women?s issues. I say, ?Oh, I?m SO glad you?re interested > >>>>>in economics!! Let?s talk about economics.? And she ran > >>>>>through a whole set of parallel back-and-forths, always pulling > >>>>>identity questions back to wages, jobs, earning, supporting your > >>>>>family, etc etc. > >>>>> > >>>>> Much as we need to wipe away any barriers to the Learning > >>>>>Sciences (and the professions and institutions dedicated to > >>>>>them) due to identity, until the Learning Sciences start taking > >>>>>a look at the place where most people spend most of their lives > >>>>>? not school, I mean ? but work, they will be engaging in a soft > >>>>>conversation at the edge of the real issue. It?s a pleasant > >>>>>conversation but it doesn?t put a hand on the levers that > >>>>>translate skill and knowledge into rent and groceries. > >>>>> > >>>>> H > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Helena Worthen > >>>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com > >>>>> Berkeley, CA 94707 > >>>>> Blog about US and Viet Nam: helenaworthen.wordpress.com > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> On Jan 22, 2017, at 11:38 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > >>>>>> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Here it is, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://cognitionandinstruction.com/engagements-the-learning- > >>>>> sciences-in-a-new-era-of-u-s-nationalism/ > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Alfredo > >>>>>> ________________________________________ > >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >>>>>> > >>>>> on behalf of Helena Worthen > >>>>>> Sent: 22 January 2017 20:24 > >>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Learning Sciences in the era of U.S. > >>>>> Nationalism > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Someone please re-send the link to this article? I think I?m > >>>>>>going to > >>>>> want to read it and respond to Mike?s question. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Thanks ? H > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Helena Worthen > >>>>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com > >>>>>> Berkeley, CA 94707 > >>>>>> Blog about US and Viet Nam: helenaworthen.wordpress.com > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Jan 22, 2017, at 12:25 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > >>>>>>> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Mike, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> thanks a lot for sharing this article. You and Michael, who > >>>>>>>have and > >>>>> know more history, have spoken in terms of reminiscences. I have > >>>>>lived and know less, and the article feels like fresh air. > >>>>>During my PhD, I begun to increasingly feel that I had to due > >>>>>something to act and respond to the increasing ecological and > >>>>>humanitarian globe crises. But how could I do anything if I had > >>>>>children and a PhD to finalise?? What could I do that would also > >>>>>be doing my job as researcher in a department of education? > >>>>> It > >>>>> was very difficult to find anything, partly because almost every > >>>>>academic quest would focus on learning, but so little on social > >>>>>development. > >>>>>How > >>>>> many scientific articles are dedicated to socio-political > >>>>>questions in the most cited educational journals? I felt very > >>>>>powerless. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> To be able to address these questions within my expertise, is > >>>>>>> a > >>>>> challenge partly because contrary to Dewey's hope, educational > >>>>>research has only marginally focused on these questions, and yet > >>>>>they may be exactly the question that matter to education. What > >>>>>are we educating for? Indeed, what is education for? I think we > >>>>>face a serious problem when someone (like myself), being an > >>>>>educational researchers/scholar, still has to scratch her head > >>>>>wondering < >>>>>and development?>> Vygotsky would be shocked! > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Alfredo > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >>>>>>> > >>>>> on behalf of mike cole > >>>>>>> Sent: 19 January 2017 04:51 > >>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Learning Sciences in the era of U.S. > >>>>> Nationalism > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Yes Michael, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> It feels like the world of the later 1930's about the time I > >>>>>>> was born as that period came down to me through the prism of a > >>>>>>> family of "premature anti fascists." > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> For a great re-creation of those times see the highly > >>>>>>> ambivalent film by Frank Capra, "meet John Doe." It has > >>>>>>> American big capital interconnected with fascism combined with > >>>>>>> populist collectivism in a manner that > >>>>> points at > >>>>>>> the media (as then experienced) as the bad guys in disguise. > >>>>>>> Happy > >>>>> Ending, > >>>>>>> Beethoven Ode to Joy and all. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> It's come round again, nastier this time. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Mike > >>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 6:20 PM Glassman, Michael > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Mike > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> It was so interesting to read this note after reading the > >>>>>>>>Cognition and Instruction essay. All the way through it I > >>>>>>>>kept thinking we have been here before. It reminded me of > >>>>>>>>the scholars, especially those who had escaped from Germany, > >>>>>>>>trying to make sense of what had happened to > >>>>> their > >>>>>>>> society during World War II. The foremost in my mind was Lewin. > >>>>> Except I > >>>>>>>> wonder if he would say the process of transformative action > >>>>>>>> starts not > >>>>> with > >>>>>>>> emergence of quasi-needs, but our willingness and abilities > >>>>>>>>to step > >>>>> back > >>>>>>>> from our quasi-needs and the ways that they drive us, often > >>>>>>>> to dysfunctional behaviors that it ultimately destructive to > >>>>>>>> both our > >>>>> society > >>>>>>>> and to us as individuals. How hard this is to do, we have to > >>>>>>>> keep > >>>>> going > >>>>>>>> back again and again. The quasi-needs, tribalism, > >>>>>>>> acceptance, > >>>>> standing are > >>>>>>>> always there. It is how they shape us that is critical. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Michael > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto: > >>>>>>>> xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 8:31 PM > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] The Learning Sciences in the era of U.S. > >>>>>>>> Nationalism > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> In following the perezhivanie thread I encountered the note > >>>>>>>> I > >>>>> re-membered. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> And interestingly mis-remembered. A translation into my focus > >>>>>>>> on mediational means. He places the starting point of the > >>>>>>>> process of transformative action at the emergence of > >>>>>>>> quasi-needs (from Kurt > >>>>> Lewin). > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> That seems correct to me. The new mediational means emerge > >>>>>>>> under environmental presses. Ever functionalist ego need a > >>>>>>>> goal(!). (The > >>>>> problem > >>>>>>>> with functionalism) In David's words, > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Perhaps the place we should look for "exaptations" that can > >>>>>>>> save both > >>>>> our > >>>>>>>> personalities and our environment is not in our evolved > >>>>>>>> needs, but in > >>>>> yet > >>>>>>>> to be designed quasi-needs. Artificial organs, after all, > >>>>>>>> always > >>>>> suggest > >>>>>>>> new and ever more artificial functions, like chess and language. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> This point seems worth keeping in mind as we look at where > >>>>>>>> this group > >>>>> of > >>>>>>>> critical scholars who work within the Learning Sciences > >>>>>>>>disciplinary framework would like to lead us. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> mike > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > > > > > > > From ewall@umich.edu Sun Feb 5 12:05:14 2017 From: ewall@umich.edu (Edward Wall) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 14:05:14 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Playworlds, Performance, Perezhivanie, Apophasis ... and TRUMP'S speech! In-Reply-To: <1486277344127.10046@iped.uio.no> References: <5893695b.c32f630a.3d640.41ee@mx.google.com> <1486189210098.72503@iped.uio.no> <1486277344127.10046@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: <20AD4506-5F47-4029-89BE-0CD332315BE2@umich.edu> It is perhaps worth pointing out that there are two different words being used to supposedly point at the same thing (transliterated and taken from Liddell and Scott): apophansis: a declaration or statement apophasis: a denial, negation Hence, people may be misinterpreting each other. One could read Trump?s speaking with an eye to Heidegger, but it would probablye done in term of aletheia. However, Tugendhat has shown that all this is a little more complicated that Heidegger indicated. Ed Wall > On Feb 5, 2017, at 12:49 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > > Henry, > > I guess for the cartoon to be about apophansis, Trump's speech would have to present itself to Trump's supporters as two opposed things *simultaneously*, but then perhaps this no longer would be *genuine* speech, in the sense Heidegger's treatment of Aristotle suggests. Trump's speech would be rather *deceiving,* i.e., "putting something in front of something else ... and thereby passing it off *as* something it is *not*". > > Cognitive dissonance seems to imply there is some processing between the said (logos) and its showing of itself *as* something, which would not fit well Heidegger... In any case, as the cartoon nicely illustrates, Trumps' supporters may be having a hard time too, it can't be easy. > > Alfredo > > > > > ________________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Wolff-Michael Roth > Sent: 05 February 2017 02:22 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Cc: Wolff-Michael Roth > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Playworlds, Performance, Perezhivanie, Apophasis ... and TRUMP'S speech! > > When you have a question about a concept, look up where it is defined. > Michael > > Heidegger, 1996, pp. 28?29 > Rather, logos as speech really means *deloun*, to make manifest "what > is being talked about" in speech. Aristotle explicates this function of > speech more precisely as *apophainesthai*. Logos lets something be seen > (*phainesthai*), namely what is being talked about, and indeed for the > speaker (who serves as the medium) or for those who speak with each > other. Speech "lets us see," from itself, *apo*. . . , what is being talked > about. In speech (*apophansis*), insofar as it is genuine, what is said > should > be derived from what is being talked about. In this way spoken commu- > nication, in what it says, makes manifest what it is talking about and > thus makes it accessible to another. Such is the structure of logos as > apophansis. > Not every "speech" suits *this* mode of making manifest, in the > sense of letting something be seen by indicating it. For example, requesting > (*euche*) also makes something manifest, but in a different way. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Wolff-Michael Roth, Lansdowne Professor > Applied Cognitive Science > MacLaurin Building A567 > University of Victoria > Victoria, BC, V8P 5C2 > http://web.uvic.ca/~mroth > > New book: *The Mathematics of Mathematics > * > > On Sat, Feb 4, 2017 at 4:50 PM, HENRY SHONERD wrote: > >> Alfredo, >> Would the attached link be an example of apophasis? I hope the link gets >> you the cartoon from Daily Kos on Feb 1, which illustrates the "cognitive >> dissonance of Trump supporters?. >> >> http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/2/1/1628099/- >> Cartoon-Trump-supporters-cognitive-dissonance?detail= >> email&link_id=15&can_id=d9825820685b26308482b9b5c5bb09 >> 5d&source=email-trump-reportedly-tells-female-staffers-to-dress-like- >> womentwitter-says-fun&email_referrer=trump-reportedly- >> tells-female-staffers-to-dress-like-womentwitter-says- >> fun___162460&email_subject=news-organizations-and- >> festivities-begin-pulling-out-of-annual-correspondents-dinner-with-trump < >> http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/2/1/1628099/- >> Cartoon-Trump-supporters-cognitive-dissonance?detail= >> email&link_id=15&can_id=d9825820685b26308482b9b5c5bb09 >> 5d&source=email-trump-reportedly-tells-female-staffers-to-dress-like- >> womentwitter-says-fun&email_referrer=trump-reportedly- >> tells-female-staffers-to-dress-like-womentwitter-says- >> fun___162460&email_subject=news-organizations-and- >> festivities-begin-pulling-out-of-annual-correspondents-dinner-with-trump> >> >> Henry >> >> >>> On Feb 3, 2017, at 11:20 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil >> wrote: >>> >>> Larry, >>> I am familiar with the term apophantic (the auto-spelling keeps >> correcting the term to "hipophatic" which is the term you use) as it >> appears in Heidegger. Not sure now about the connection with Vygotsky that >> you are after; it seems quite of a complex thread to weave across, at least >> in the xmca format. >>> >>> But!, since I wanted to make sure we were using the same term, I did >> google it and, guess what I found? An example of apophasis as used by >> TRUMP!: >>> >>> In 2015, Trump said of fellow Republican presidential candidate and >> former Hewlett-Packard CEO Carly Fiorina, "I promised I would not say that >> she ran Hewlett-Packard into the ground, that she laid off tens of >> thousands of people and she got viciously fired. I said I will not say it, >> so I will not say it."In 2016, he tweeted of journalist Megyn Kelly, ?I >> refuse to call [her] a bimbo, because that would not be politically >> correct." >>> >>> Here is the link to the full article from the Huffington post: >>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-rhetorical-device_us_ >> 56c358cbe4b0c3c55052b32b >>> >>> Alfredo >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> on behalf of lpscholar2@gmail.com >>> Sent: 02 February 2017 18:15 >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Playworlds, Performance, Perezhivanie, Apophasis >>> >>> Beth and Monica explore the phenomena occurring in playworlds generating >> perezhivanie. >>> >>> Playworlds are performance worlds and these worlds may be exploring the >> relation of ?unity? and ?difference?. >>> >>> Another term that may have relevance when Beth and Monica refer to >> negating the negation is the operation of ?apophasis?. >>> William Frank (On What Cannot Be Said) describes the apophatic : >>> >>> *In apophasis, which empties language of all positive content, absolute >> difference cannot be distinguished from absolute unity, even though the >> respective discourses of difference and unity nominally stand at the >> antipodes. BOTH configurations, unity and difference, are exposed as >> relatively arbitrary and, in the end, equally inadequate schemas for >> articulating what cannot be said. (Franke) >>> >>> Claire Chambers in her book (Performance Studies and Negative >> Epistemology) comments on the above Franke citation : >>> >>> *If unity and difference cannot be distinguished from one another (we >> cannot KNOW what makes them distinct), then it is impossible to determine >> what either ?is? ? meaning that knowing and being, epistemology and >> ontology, are also impossible to distinguish from one another.(Claire >> Chambers Chapter 1) >>> >>> I am not sure how far to go with this theme of : Negating the negation? >>> I hear this theme in playworlds. >>> >>> If this seems relevant, i can post the first chapter of Claire Chambers >> book. I will just mention that Vygotsky?s Judaic childhood and adolescence >> would have encountered this apophatic ?tradition?. >>> Enough for one probe or possible pivot? >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my Windows 10 phone >>> >> >> From lpscholar2@gmail.com Sun Feb 5 12:11:29 2017 From: lpscholar2@gmail.com (lpscholar2@gmail.com) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 12:11:29 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Learning Sciences in the era of U.S. Nationalism In-Reply-To: References: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F903C71964@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> <1485073527094.7145@iped.uio.no> <5E5B95EA-374F-48EB-B308-BCE49DA52760@gmail.com> <1485113892233.91870@iped.uio.no> <7BD412C4-D775-4D3A-9992-68ACACFB188C@gmail.com> <8004DEFF-7DEE-4D14-8B25-721A97DE1384@gmail.com> Message-ID: <58978723.8236630a.baf07.635c@mx.google.com> Mike, i hear in Ana?s practice and performance that she and her community are taking the next steps you refer to. Now you say that the next steps are as patriotic as apple pie. IN rhetoric. However, in the realm of (as if) or (as though) we can act as if it is so. In fact it is already happening that based on values/criteria you WANT to see realized such activities are actually implemented. Unfolding THAT ideal is now calling that is a guiding image (not misguided or naive). This is the unmapped terrain. Ana is part of a consortium that is documenting these democratic educational practices which are inclusive of community building as well as intimately related to instituting democratic school formations. We have exemplars of this experience of ?living through? that includes melding teaching, research and service creating alternatives. I am sure Ana encounters profound barriers and obstacles but THIS school actually exists at the heart of the community. This school is a place of refuge. From here people will venture forth into the ?open see?. Acting locally, acting (as if), becoming actual as rising to the concrete. A material place which can be visited, and a place of memory unfolding. Yes, a singular event, but possible. We have exemplars that exist in 2017 that are facing similar constraints to their ongoing viability that are faced in other localities. These exemplars are reaching towards the margins. Could there be a flourishing of these spaces of refuge if we harnessed the power of acting (as if) and inhabiting the rhetoric? A response to Trump? Beyond critique. Possibly Sent from my Windows 10 phone From: mike cole Sent: February 5, 2017 10:56 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Learning Sciences in the era of U.S. Nationalism I would like to link Julian's comments below to Anna's school project in Argentina. Julian, in dialogue with Helena, wrote: I think what the Cognition & Instruction authors were suggesting was that the Learning sciences could be more 'part of the solution' if they develop a progressive perspective/agenda for their LS research? e.g. Critiquing the 'what works' type of domination of the field. Im OK with that. I will let the LS authors comment for themselves, but I worry about stopping the process at critique. (This argument, too, goes back to the 1930's and the struggle against fascism then, which I agree is totally relevant.). The next step I am gesturing toward is to seek to seek to create alternatives based on the principles/values that you want to see realized and your analysis of where, in the current turbulent state of human history, such activities can actually be implemented as a condition for testing your ideas about worthy alternatives, e.g., the process of reflexive thinking that seems essential to critical-theoretical research. With respect to the sort of effort that Ana's work exemplifies, if I were an active member of my faculty, I would be seeking to provide strong links between the courses I taught and such community-based activities, ordinarily beyond the University's horizon, in order to benefit my teaching and my research while providing critical resources for the community project as well as sources of self critique and education. There is an official three-fold mission of the University of California upon which every faculty member is evaluated: teaching, research, and service. Activities which satisfy these three criteria while promoting democratic educational practices might also satisfy the strategies in the Critical Learning Science piece. The melding of these three domains is an agreed upon ideal of the university. Championing their fulfillment is a patriotic as apple pie. In rhetoric. Upholding that ideal while challenging current practices of education, research, and service that degrade that ideal?? Naive? Misguided? mike On Tue, Jan 24, 2017 at 10:38 AM, Julian Williams < julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk> wrote: > Helena, yes that was it 'Pride'! > > The second part of the question you posed: > > I lazily used 'transposition' and its not Bourdieu's word: he argues that > every cultural field has a power structure that is to a large degree > homologous to THE FIELD OF POWER whose basis is largely that of economic > capital, albeit that there is some 'autonomous' structure of cultural > capital in the field that implies there is 'work' to be done in > transforming economic capital into cultural capital and vice versa (you > can't simply 'buy' the papacy or the presidential palace, but money plus > other capitals might do the trick). I wrote about this a bit in a recent > MCA paper (Choudry & Williams 2016?). > > In this view then the academic field(s) of power might be revealed as > being a 'transposed' (if you forgive my short-hand for Bourdieu's > perspective) version of that of the Field of Power at large, which is in > turn transposed into the gender politics field that the women > marchers/LGBT activists are engaged in. > > The right kind of social analysis is supposed to help the gay pride > marchers to recognise that they are on the same side as the striking > miners; failures to get this right and make this visible is the main > reason why Trump and Co can win, and why Trumps may be even a necessary > risk for the ruling class to break up the resistance to their domination > in tough times (i.e. The Davos crowd would rather do it the Clintons' way, > but in hard times fascism may be needed to culturally dispossess the > already dispossessed so they can be crushed). > > > Now I go to the first part of your question: > > I like the way you put it here - and it points to a weakness in Bourdieu's > reflexive sociology (he sees it as the job of the sociologist-activist to > raise consciousness; while Id say with Freire that it is all our jobs). > > It is true that even though I should be expected (as a well-paid and > comfortably middle-classed professional) to side with conservatism, I find > myself culturally disposed to side with the oppressed, e.g. supporting > Momentum and the Labour left. The oppressed can have many allies on this > basis as well as those who actually are economically and politically > crushed. > > But then I am torn: there are many things that I 'have to do' to maintain > a position of power in the academic field that are downright exploitative > and oppressive. So in my academic work I may (at least sometimes) be part > of the problem rather than the solution. I think what the Cognition & > Instruction authors were suggesting was that the Learning sciences could > be more 'part of the solution' if they develop a progressive > perspective/agenda for their LS research? e.g. Critiquing the 'what works' > type of domination of the field. Im OK with that. > > Hope this makes some sense and I didn't 'lose the momentum' of the thread. > > julian > > > > > On 24/01/2017 04:29, "xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Helena > Worthen" helenaworthen@gmail.com> wrote: > > >Julian, the movie you?re thinking of is Pride. > > > >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pride_(2014_film) > > > >Are you suggesting stepping from looking at and studying identity groups > >to ?coming out? as being a member of one, and then in full feather of > >one?s identity, relating to the stranger across the aisle? > > > >But could you please explain what this means: ??..whose cultural capital > >in his analysis is a transposition of the dominant economic, capitalist > >class.? What does ?transposition? mean here? > > > >Thanks ? > > > > > >Helena Worthen > >helenaworthen@gmail.com > >Berkeley, CA 94707 > >Blog about US and Viet Nam: helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > > > > > > >> On Jan 23, 2017, at 10:49 AM, Julian Williams > >> wrote: > >> > >> Dear Helena and all > >> > >> The victories of the right in the US and Europe surely cannot be > >>explained > >> only by cultural identity issues, and not only by the disaffection of > >>the > >> workers with their traditional (-ly hopeless social democratic) parties, > >> though these are important elements of the situation that are making the > >> far right a possible option for capital. > >> > >> Surely we have to look at the global failure of capitalism: the reasons > >> are essentially economic. Our rulers seem ever more desperate to manage > >>a > >> rate of profit that will satisfy capital and it seems a small portion of > >> them are prepared to back the far right as an option on the political > >> field if necessary. Not yet a significant minority of the Davos class, > >> because they still need to be convinced that the traditional order > >>cannot > >> be made to work, but the Murdoch's and the UKIP/ Tory petit bourgeois > >> backbone are nearly there already: Trump himself is pretty much there, > >>as > >> is Le Pen et al, .. > >> > >> Within this context, and more if/when another 2008 crash hits, the > >>fascist > >> strategy will grow more attractive as the rightist parties attract more > >> disaffected workers, non-workers and petit bourgeois. All the > >> cultural-ideological elements of fascism and nationalism are there in > >>the > >> Uk and France/Netherlands etc just as bad as in Trumpland. (Hey Trump > >> didn't even get the majority vote - on any democratic conception he has > >>no > >> right to have been declared a winner?. Unless we can declare 'Remain' a > >> victory because its 48% vote is represented in our parliament by a > >> majority of the representatives?) > >> > >> What can 'we' do? Only to keep trying to clarify it, keep telling it as > >>it > >> is and might be. What part a conceptualisation of perezhivanie has in > >>this > >> I don't know - but it might be worth re-reading 'The struggle against > >> fascism in Germany' again (not being ironic). The lesson then/there was > >>to > >> block with Social Democracy and labour unions/parties while explaining > >>its > >> failures, helping their support to move left as well as showing there is > >> an alternative to the alternative (here we have Corbyn and momentum; the > >> US have Bernie and ?). > >> > >> But maybe this strategy is not enough? What else? I think there are > >> important interventions also in the cultural fields and so identity is > >>an > >> issue for capital. I wrote a bit about this from Bourdieu's perspective? > >> what progressives in every field have in common is that they resist the > >> dominant powers in their cultural field - whose cultural capital in his > >> analysis is a transposition of the dominant economic, capitalist class. > >> That?s what LGBT, underprivileged groups, national/ethnic minorities, > >>etc > >> everywhere have in common, if we can be helped to see it? like that film > >> of the gay rights activists from London who marched to South Wales to > >> support the miners strike? and the miners who in returned joined a gay > >> rights march in London? what was that called? > >> > >> Julian. > >> > >> > >> > >> On 23/01/2017 17:55, "xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of > >>Helena > >> Worthen" >> helenaworthen@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >>> Well, yes. Good question: How? I take it Francine is not asking this > >>> ironically: she really wants us to figure out how. > >>> > >>> The challenge is to answer the question. > >>> > >>> I don?t think any of us have a quick answer, but it certainly is a > >>> question that is within our collective knowledge to address. > >>> > >>> H > >>> > >>> Helena Worthen > >>> helenaworthen@gmail.com > >>> Berkeley, CA 94707 > >>> Blog about US and Viet Nam: helenaworthen.wordpress.com > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> On Jan 22, 2017, at 7:32 PM, Larry Smolucha > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Message from Francine Smolucha: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> The key to an analysis of the Trump movement is understanding the > >>>> > >>>> fundamental IRONIES that have rocked American politics. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> The workers revolution has resulted in the > >>>> > >>>> workers/unions deserting the Left, the socialists, the Democratic > >>>>Party. > >>>> > >>>> Trump is a Capitalist regardless of whether he actually has a > >>>> Republican ideology. > >>>> > >>>> The workers' movement has been hijacked by a capitalist. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> The other great IRONY is that Trump wants to make Russia a U.S. ally > >>>> (again). > >>>> > >>>> The Left, the socialists, the Democratic Party are the ones demonizing > >>>> Russia - > >>>> > >>>> what a reversal! > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Since CHAT derives from Russian psychology (Leontiev and Vygotsky) and > >>>> the backlash against Trump is also a backlash against all things > >>>>Russian > >>>> - this puts CHAT in a particularly awkward position. How can a > >>>>cultural > >>>> historical psychology that originated in Russia become the leader in > >>>>the > >>>> anti-Trump discourse? or lead an anti-Trump educational movement? You > >>>> are even extolling a Russian concept PEREZHIVANIE. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> I think the XMCA needs to examine its own perezhivanie at this time. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ________________________________ > >>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >>>> > >>>> on behalf of mike cole > >>>> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2017 3:01 PM > >>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>>> Cc: Mariane Hedegaard; Reijo Miettinen; Seth Chaiklin > >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Learning Sciences in the era of U.S. > >>>> Nationalism > >>>> > >>>> Helena et al -- > >>>> > >>>> An important emphasis in the article for me was on the fact that > >>>> although > >>>> the article focused on the American nationalist movement that has just > >>>> pulled of an alt-right coup, similar movements are poised to take hold > >>>> in a > >>>> lot of places in Europe to join the many already entrenched unsavory > >>>> governments in other parts of the world. > >>>> > >>>> The CRADLE center in Helsinki is under very concerted attack and the > >>>> right > >>>> wing government appears, from this distance, to be making great > >>>> progress on > >>>> destroying its legacy. The same process has been in Denmark for some > >>>> time, > >>>> also with apparent success. > >>>> > >>>> What do our international colleagues who have already felt the hot > >>>> breath > >>>> of right wing nationalism have to offer in terms of strategies of > >>>> resistence? > >>>> > >>>> Back to "what is to be done," that sombre question from an earlier > >>>>era. > >>>> The > >>>> answer last time did not produce what it promised. > >>>> > >>>> mike > >>>> > >>>> mike > >>>> > >>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2017 at 12:22 PM, Helena Worthen > >>>> > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Thank you, Alfredo - I gave it a read. > >>>>> > >>>>> Sure, of course they?re right. But I am very disappointed. > >>>>> > >>>>> I was hoping that the following was only item #1 in a long list of > >>>>> "what > >>>>> the 2016 election made apparent": > >>>>> > >>>>> The 2016 election has made apparent the need for scholarship that > >>>>> explicitly defends and furthers the rights and well-being of people > >>>>>of > >>>>> color, immigrants, Muslims, women, people who are differently abled, > >>>>> LGBTQ > >>>>> communities, and the earth. These are stances that have been limited, > >>>>> at > >>>>> least explicitly, in the Learning Sciences. > >>>>> > >>>>> But the call for inclusion was not just #1, it seems to be the whole > >>>>> thing. In other words, it?s all about identity ?plus the earth, of > >>>>> course. > >>>>> While inclusion is necessary, it?s not even a start. Yes, research, > >>>>> teaching, publishing, promotion, conferences ? everything associated > >>>>> with > >>>>> teaching and learning has to include everyone as equals (see Andy?s > >>>>> book) > >>>>> in one way or another ? but then what? What are they (we) supposed to > >>>>> do? > >>>>> Where does the pretty language touch the ground? > >>>>> > >>>>> I was listening to a broadcast of the Women?s March in DC on Saturday > >>>>> morning, and Kamala Harris, who was the California State Attorney > >>>>> General > >>>>> and is now a junior Senator from CA, was addressing the rally. She > >>>>> said, > >>>>> ?People always ask me to talk about women?s issues. I say, ?Oh, I?m > >>>>>SO > >>>>> glad > >>>>> you?re interested in economics!! Let?s talk about economics.? And > >>>>>she > >>>>> ran > >>>>> through a whole set of parallel back-and-forths, always pulling > >>>>> identity > >>>>> questions back to wages, jobs, earning, supporting your family, etc > >>>>> etc. > >>>>> > >>>>> Much as we need to wipe away any barriers to the Learning Sciences > >>>>>(and > >>>>> the professions and institutions dedicated to them) due to identity, > >>>>> until > >>>>> the Learning Sciences start taking a look at the place where most > >>>>> people > >>>>> spend most of their lives ? not school, I mean ? but work, they will > >>>>>be > >>>>> engaging in a soft conversation at the edge of the real issue. It?s a > >>>>> pleasant conversation but it doesn?t put a hand on the levers that > >>>>> translate skill and knowledge into rent and groceries. > >>>>> > >>>>> H > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Helena Worthen > >>>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com > >>>>> Berkeley, CA 94707 > >>>>> Blog about US and Viet Nam: helenaworthen.wordpress.com > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> On Jan 22, 2017, at 11:38 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > >>>>>> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Here it is, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://cognitionandinstruction.com/engagements-the-learning- > >>>>> sciences-in-a-new-era-of-u-s-nationalism/ > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Alfredo > >>>>>> ________________________________________ > >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >>>>>> > >>>>> on behalf of Helena Worthen > >>>>>> Sent: 22 January 2017 20:24 > >>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Learning Sciences in the era of U.S. > >>>>> Nationalism > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Someone please re-send the link to this article? I think I?m going > >>>>>>to > >>>>> want to read it and respond to Mike?s question. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Thanks ? H > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Helena Worthen > >>>>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com > >>>>>> Berkeley, CA 94707 > >>>>>> Blog about US and Viet Nam: helenaworthen.wordpress.com > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Jan 22, 2017, at 12:25 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > >>>>>>> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Mike, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> thanks a lot for sharing this article. You and Michael, who have > >>>>>>>and > >>>>> know more history, have spoken in terms of reminiscences. I have > >>>>>lived > >>>>> and > >>>>> know less, and the article feels like fresh air. During my PhD, I > >>>>> begun to > >>>>> increasingly feel that I had to due something to act and respond to > >>>>>the > >>>>> increasing ecological and humanitarian globe crises. But how could I > >>>>>do > >>>>> anything if I had children and a PhD to finalise?? What could I do > >>>>>that > >>>>> would also be doing my job as researcher in a department of > >>>>>education? > >>>>> It > >>>>> was very difficult to find anything, partly because almost every > >>>>> academic > >>>>> quest would focus on learning, but so little on social development. > >>>>>How > >>>>> many scientific articles are dedicated to socio-political questions > >>>>>in > >>>>> the > >>>>> most cited educational journals? I felt very powerless. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> To be able to address these questions within my expertise, is a > >>>>> challenge partly because contrary to Dewey's hope, educational > >>>>> research has > >>>>> only marginally focused on these questions, and yet they may be > >>>>> exactly the > >>>>> question that matter to education. What are we educating for? Indeed, > >>>>> what > >>>>> is education for? I think we face a serious problem when someone > >>>>>(like > >>>>> myself), being an educational researchers/scholar, still has to > >>>>> scratch her > >>>>> head wondering < >>>>> and > >>>>> development?>> Vygotsky would be shocked! > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Alfredo > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >>>>>>> > >>>>> on behalf of mike cole > >>>>>>> Sent: 19 January 2017 04:51 > >>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Learning Sciences in the era of U.S. > >>>>> Nationalism > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Yes Michael, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> It feels like the world of the later 1930's about the time I was > >>>>>>> born as > >>>>>>> that period came down to me through the prism of a family of > >>>>>>> "premature > >>>>>>> anti fascists." > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> For a great re-creation of those times see the highly ambivalent > >>>>>>> film by > >>>>>>> Frank Capra, "meet John Doe." It has American big capital > >>>>>>> interconnected > >>>>>>> with fascism combined with populist collectivism in a manner that > >>>>> points at > >>>>>>> the media (as then experienced) as the bad guys in disguise. Happy > >>>>> Ending, > >>>>>>> Beethoven Ode to Joy and all. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> It's come round again, nastier this time. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Mike > >>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 6:20 PM Glassman, Michael > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Mike > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> It was so interesting to read this note after reading the > >>>>>>>>Cognition > >>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>> Instruction essay. All the way through it I kept thinking we have > >>>>>>>> been > >>>>>>>> here before. It reminded me of the scholars, especially those who > >>>>>>>> had > >>>>>>>> escaped from Germany, trying to make sense of what had happened to > >>>>> their > >>>>>>>> society during World War II. The foremost in my mind was Lewin. > >>>>> Except I > >>>>>>>> wonder if he would say the process of transformative action starts > >>>>>>>> not > >>>>> with > >>>>>>>> emergence of quasi-needs, but our willingness and abilities to > >>>>>>>>step > >>>>> back > >>>>>>>> from our quasi-needs and the ways that they drive us, often to > >>>>>>>> dysfunctional behaviors that it ultimately destructive to both our > >>>>> society > >>>>>>>> and to us as individuals. How hard this is to do, we have to keep > >>>>> going > >>>>>>>> back again and again. The quasi-needs, tribalism, acceptance, > >>>>> standing are > >>>>>>>> always there. It is how they shape us that is critical. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Michael > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto: > >>>>>>>> xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 8:31 PM > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] The Learning Sciences in the era of U.S. > >>>>>>>> Nationalism > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> In following the perezhivanie thread I encountered the note I > >>>>> re-membered. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> And interestingly mis-remembered. A translation into my focus on > >>>>>>>> mediational means. He places the starting point of the process of > >>>>>>>> transformative action at the emergence of quasi-needs (from Kurt > >>>>> Lewin). > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> That seems correct to me. The new mediational means emerge under > >>>>>>>> environmental presses. Ever functionalist ego need a goal(!). (The > >>>>> problem > >>>>>>>> with functionalism) In David's words, > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Perhaps the place we should look for "exaptations" that can save > >>>>>>>> both > >>>>> our > >>>>>>>> personalities and our environment is not in our evolved needs, but > >>>>>>>> in > >>>>> yet > >>>>>>>> to be designed quasi-needs. Artificial organs, after all, always > >>>>> suggest > >>>>>>>> new and ever more artificial functions, like chess and language. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> This point seems worth keeping in mind as we look at where this > >>>>>>>> group > >>>>> of > >>>>>>>> critical scholars who work within the Learning Sciences > >>>>>>>>disciplinary > >>>>>>>> framework would like to lead us. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> mike > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > > > > > > > From lpscholar2@gmail.com Sun Feb 5 12:20:42 2017 From: lpscholar2@gmail.com (lpscholar2@gmail.com) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 12:20:42 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Playworlds, Performance, Perezhivanie, Apophasis ... andTRUMP'S speech! In-Reply-To: <20AD4506-5F47-4029-89BE-0CD332315BE2@umich.edu> References: <5893695b.c32f630a.3d640.41ee@mx.google.com> <1486189210098.72503@iped.uio.no> <1486277344127.10046@iped.uio.no> <20AD4506-5F47-4029-89BE-0CD332315BE2@umich.edu> Message-ID: <5897894c.19af630a.b257b.48ef@mx.google.com> Thanks Ed for this clarification. Then there is also the relation between apophansis as positive declaration or statement AND apophasis as denial or negation. Performance studies are heavily influenced by apophasis. Sent from my Windows 10 phone From: Edward Wall Sent: February 5, 2017 12:07 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Playworlds, Performance, Perezhivanie, Apophasis ... andTRUMP'S speech! It is perhaps worth pointing out that there are two different words being used to supposedly point at the same thing (transliterated and taken from Liddell and Scott): apophansis: a declaration or statement apophasis: a denial, negation Hence, people may be misinterpreting each other. One could read Trump?s speaking with an eye to Heidegger, but it would probablye done in term of aletheia. However, Tugendhat has shown that all this is a little more complicated that Heidegger indicated. Ed Wall > On Feb 5, 2017, at 12:49 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > > Henry, > > I guess for the cartoon to be about apophansis, Trump's speech would have to present itself to Trump's supporters as two opposed things *simultaneously*, but then perhaps this no longer would be *genuine* speech, in the sense Heidegger's treatment of Aristotle suggests. Trump's speech would be rather *deceiving,* i.e., "putting something in front of something else ... and thereby passing it off *as* something it is *not*". > > Cognitive dissonance seems to imply there is some processing between the said (logos) and its showing of itself *as* something, which would not fit well Heidegger... In any case, as the cartoon nicely illustrates, Trumps' supporters may be having a hard time too, it can't be easy. > > Alfredo > > > > > ________________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Wolff-Michael Roth > Sent: 05 February 2017 02:22 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Cc: Wolff-Michael Roth > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Playworlds, Performance, Perezhivanie, Apophasis ... and TRUMP'S speech! > > When you have a question about a concept, look up where it is defined. > Michael > > Heidegger, 1996, pp. 28?29 > Rather, logos as speech really means *deloun*, to make manifest "what > is being talked about" in speech. Aristotle explicates this function of > speech more precisely as *apophainesthai*. Logos lets something be seen > (*phainesthai*), namely what is being talked about, and indeed for the > speaker (who serves as the medium) or for those who speak with each > other. Speech "lets us see," from itself, *apo*. . . , what is being talked > about. In speech (*apophansis*), insofar as it is genuine, what is said > should > be derived from what is being talked about. In this way spoken commu- > nication, in what it says, makes manifest what it is talking about and > thus makes it accessible to another. Such is the structure of logos as > apophansis. > Not every "speech" suits *this* mode of making manifest, in the > sense of letting something be seen by indicating it. For example, requesting > (*euche*) also makes something manifest, but in a different way. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Wolff-Michael Roth, Lansdowne Professor > Applied Cognitive Science > MacLaurin Building A567 > University of Victoria > Victoria, BC, V8P 5C2 > http://web.uvic.ca/~mroth > > New book: *The Mathematics of Mathematics > * > > On Sat, Feb 4, 2017 at 4:50 PM, HENRY SHONERD wrote: > >> Alfredo, >> Would the attached link be an example of apophasis? I hope the link gets >> you the cartoon from Daily Kos on Feb 1, which illustrates the "cognitive >> dissonance of Trump supporters?. >> >> http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/2/1/1628099/- >> Cartoon-Trump-supporters-cognitive-dissonance?detail= >> email&link_id=15&can_id=d9825820685b26308482b9b5c5bb09 >> 5d&source=email-trump-reportedly-tells-female-staffers-to-dress-like- >> womentwitter-says-fun&email_referrer=trump-reportedly- >> tells-female-staffers-to-dress-like-womentwitter-says- >> fun___162460&email_subject=news-organizations-and- >> festivities-begin-pulling-out-of-annual-correspondents-dinner-with-trump < >> http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/2/1/1628099/- >> Cartoon-Trump-supporters-cognitive-dissonance?detail= >> email&link_id=15&can_id=d9825820685b26308482b9b5c5bb09 >> 5d&source=email-trump-reportedly-tells-female-staffers-to-dress-like- >> womentwitter-says-fun&email_referrer=trump-reportedly- >> tells-female-staffers-to-dress-like-womentwitter-says- >> fun___162460&email_subject=news-organizations-and- >> festivities-begin-pulling-out-of-annual-correspondents-dinner-with-trump> >> >> Henry >> >> >>> On Feb 3, 2017, at 11:20 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil >> wrote: >>> >>> Larry, >>> I am familiar with the term apophantic (the auto-spelling keeps >> correcting the term to "hipophatic" which is the term you use) as it >> appears in Heidegger. Not sure now about the connection with Vygotsky that >> you are after; it seems quite of a complex thread to weave across, at least >> in the xmca format. >>> >>> But!, since I wanted to make sure we were using the same term, I did >> google it and, guess what I found? An example of apophasis as used by >> TRUMP!: >>> >>> In 2015, Trump said of fellow Republican presidential candidate and >> former Hewlett-Packard CEO Carly Fiorina, "I promised I would not say that >> she ran Hewlett-Packard into the ground, that she laid off tens of >> thousands of people and she got viciously fired. I said I will not say it, >> so I will not say it."In 2016, he tweeted of journalist Megyn Kelly, ?I >> refuse to call [her] a bimbo, because that would not be politically >> correct." >>> >>> Here is the link to the full article from the Huffington post: >>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-rhetorical-device_us_ >> 56c358cbe4b0c3c55052b32b >>> >>> Alfredo >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> on behalf of lpscholar2@gmail.com >>> Sent: 02 February 2017 18:15 >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Playworlds, Performance, Perezhivanie, Apophasis >>> >>> Beth and Monica explore the phenomena occurring in playworlds generating >> perezhivanie. >>> >>> Playworlds are performance worlds and these worlds may be exploring the >> relation of ?unity? and ?difference?. >>> >>> Another term that may have relevance when Beth and Monica refer to >> negating the negation is the operation of ?apophasis?. >>> William Frank (On What Cannot Be Said) describes the apophatic : >>> >>> *In apophasis, which empties language of all positive content, absolute >> difference cannot be distinguished from absolute unity, even though the >> respective discourses of difference and unity nominally stand at the >> antipodes. BOTH configurations, unity and difference, are exposed as >> relatively arbitrary and, in the end, equally inadequate schemas for >> articulating what cannot be said. (Franke) >>> >>> Claire Chambers in her book (Performance Studies and Negative >> Epistemology) comments on the above Franke citation : >>> >>> *If unity and difference cannot be distinguished from one another (we >> cannot KNOW what makes them distinct), then it is impossible to determine >> what either ?is? ? meaning that knowing and being, epistemology and >> ontology, are also impossible to distinguish from one another.(Claire >> Chambers Chapter 1) >>> >>> I am not sure how far to go with this theme of : Negating the negation? >>> I hear this theme in playworlds. >>> >>> If this seems relevant, i can post the first chapter of Claire Chambers >> book. I will just mention that Vygotsky?s Judaic childhood and adolescence >> would have encountered this apophatic ?tradition?. >>> Enough for one probe or possible pivot? >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my Windows 10 phone >>> >> >> From mcole@ucsd.edu Sun Feb 5 14:39:53 2017 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 14:39:53 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Playworlds, Performance, Perezhivanie, Apophasis ... and TRUMP'S speech! In-Reply-To: <838a8d3c-2559-3984-64e3-e3cf8bd98266@mira.net> References: <5893695b.c32f630a.3d640.41ee@mx.google.com> <1486189210098.72503@iped.uio.no> <838a8d3c-2559-3984-64e3-e3cf8bd98266@mira.net> Message-ID: Bruce's email is not bouncing from san diego. Perhaps there is only one c in unsubscribe? mike On Sat, Feb 4, 2017 at 11:52 PM, Andy Blunden wrote: > Bruce Jones' email is bouncing. Anyone know what's going on there? > > Andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > http://home.mira.net/~andyOn 5/02/2017 5:44 PM, Joseph Gilbert wrote: > >> Unsubsccribe >> >> > From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Sun Feb 5 15:13:27 2017 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 23:13:27 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Playworlds, Performance, Perezhivanie, Apophasis ... and TRUMP'S speech! In-Reply-To: References: <5893695b.c32f630a.3d640.41ee@mx.google.com> <1486189210098.72503@iped.uio.no> <838a8d3c-2559-3984-64e3-e3cf8bd98266@mira.net>, Message-ID: <1486336404659.16793@iped.uio.no> I forwarded the 'unsubscribe' message to Bruce and did not bounce to me either. Alfredo ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of mike cole Sent: 05 February 2017 23:39 To: Andy Blunden; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Playworlds, Performance, Perezhivanie, Apophasis ... and TRUMP'S speech! Bruce's email is not bouncing from san diego. Perhaps there is only one c in unsubscribe? mike On Sat, Feb 4, 2017 at 11:52 PM, Andy Blunden wrote: > Bruce Jones' email is bouncing. Anyone know what's going on there? > > Andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > http://home.mira.net/~andyOn 5/02/2017 5:44 PM, Joseph Gilbert wrote: > >> Unsubsccribe >> >> > From bjones@ucsd.edu Sun Feb 5 15:23:09 2017 From: bjones@ucsd.edu (Bruce Jones) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 15:23:09 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Playworlds, Performance, Perezhivanie, Apophasis ... and TRUMP'S speech! In-Reply-To: References: <5893695b.c32f630a.3d640.41ee@mx.google.com> <1486189210098.72503@iped.uio.no> <838a8d3c-2559-3984-64e3-e3cf8bd98266@mira.net> Message-ID: On 2/5/17 2:39 PM, mike cole wrote: > Bruce's email is not bouncing from san diego. > Perhaps there is only one c in unsubscribe? Spelling mistakes will not cause bounces. I do the unsubscribes by hand in order to make sure they are removed from the database. -- Bruce Jones Sys Admin, LCHC bjones@ucsd.edu 619-823-8281 -- From mcole@ucsd.edu Sun Feb 5 15:42:37 2017 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 15:42:37 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Perezhivanie and Organic In-Reply-To: <9703F9CC-1B3F-45BD-8FB5-5372006B75AF@eastsideinstitute.org> References: <5893695b.c32f630a.3d640.41ee@mx.google.com> <58975ff5.8e3f630a.4fc2a.5fd5@mx.google.com> <9703F9CC-1B3F-45BD-8FB5-5372006B75AF@eastsideinstitute.org> Message-ID: Your own work ought to provide an example of a long-standing program that could serve as a model for people to consider, Lois. mike On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 10:52 AM, Lois Holzman < lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org> wrote: > Here are two links to two videos in which Richard Schechner addresses > politics and performance studies. He is a pioneer and friend of performance > activism. > > in 2012?https://vimeo.com/54675823 (begins > around 57 minutes) > in 2016?http://www.performingtheworld.org performingtheworld.org/> click on PTW 2016 Plenary Part 1. It?s a > conversation between Schechner, Ken Gergen, me and two inner city young > women. The set up is long but interesting. The conversation begins with > Schechner at around 20 min. > > Lois Holzman > Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy > 119 West 23 St, suite 902 > New York, NY 10011 > Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX > Tel. +1.212.941.8906 x324 > Fax +1.718.797.3966 > lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org > Social Media > Facebook | LinkedIn %20linkedin.com/pub/lois-holzman> | Twitter LoisHolzman> > Blogs > Psychology Today com/blog/conceptual-revolution>| Psychology of Becoming < > http://loisholzman.org/> | Mad in America author/lois/> > Websites > Lois Holzman | East Side Institute < > http://eastsideinstitute.org/> | Performing the World performingtheworld.org/> > All Stars Project > > > > > On Feb 5, 2017, at 1:30 PM, lpscholar2@gmail.com wrote: > > > > Another scholar of ?performance studies? is Richard Schechner who posits > a continuum for ?performance? that spans 5 categories: play, games, sports, > theatre, ritual. > > Play is ?free? where ritual is ?strictly? programmed or designed, while > games, sports and theatre MEDIATE between these extremes as more play-like > or more ritual-like. > > This continuum is basically an elaboration of how performances are > variations on ?ritual? as an encompassing category. > > > > This allows Schechner to extend the values of ritual into creation of > symbolic reality that pervades the analysis of other performance genres: > play, games, sports, ritual. > > > > Shechner explains performance studies in the preface to his book > [Performance Studies: An Introduction]: > > > > Performance studies ? as a practice, a theory, an academic discipline ? > is dynamic, UNFINISHABLE. Whatever it is, it wasn?t exactly that before > and it won?t be exactly that again. > > > > One dominant metaphor by which performance studies has been figured is > ?the unmapped terrain?. > > This metaphor figures uncertainty, ambiguity, navigating the > incomprehensible, the ungraspable, the unsaying at the heart of the > certain, the graspable, the comprehensible, the saying. > > > > This unmapped terrain may be ??exhilarating? for those scholars and > persons who relish ?not knowing? that is hard to pin down. So too is the > study of ?performance? exhilarating and privileges open-ended questions. > > > > The potential to illuminate, instruct, an inspire, is enhanced not > diminished by this ever present ?uncertainty?. Don?t try to fix performance > studies down is its central value and if you do the symbolic realm will > become a mere idol. > > > > By insisting that performance studies cannot be fixed or defined, > performance studies is situated as a NEGATIVE discipline trafficking in > ?denials? and the unsaying of speech. > > > > This gives a flavour of the way performance studies is posited in > apophatic terms of the unmapped terrain in the fashion of Schechner?s > explorations of the continuum of ritual, play, games, sports, theatre. > > > > Beth and Monica exploring playworlds and perezhivanie can be put in > dialogue with Schechner. > > > > I was channelling Claire Chambers above who is deeply engaged with this > performance thematic playing out through historical epochs and becoming > secularized in modern performance studies. > > > > > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > > > From: Edward Wall > > Sent: February 4, 2017 4:10 PM > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Perezhivanie and Organic > > > > David > > > > Yes, that was the difference I was noting. Vygotsky in the passages > I was reading seems to using ?organic? as denoting something ?natural,' > while Stanislavsky seemed to using it s somewhat more holistic fashion. > > > > Ed > > > >> On Feb 2, 2017, at 3:01 PM, David Kellogg > wrote: > >> > >> The Russian word that Vygotsky uses for "organic" is the same as the > word > >> we use, and I assume that the same thing is true of the word that > >> Stanislavsky used. It is "organic" transliterated into Cyrillic, rather > >> than translated into Russian. > >> > >> What really makes this problem new-thread-worthy is that the meaning of > the > >> word "organic" at the end of the nineteenth century is not the same as > the > >> word meaning that we use in several important ways. > >> > >> Take, for example, the crudest possible way: semantic prosody, or the > "good > >> vibes" of some words (e.g. "organic food") vs. the "bad vibes" of others > >> (e.g. "artificial flavor"). The nineteenth century began with a romantic > >> movement towards nature and towards holism ("Gestaltism"), against > dogmatic > >> rationalism and atomism. So "organicism" had a semantic prosody that > >> involved not only naturalism (which it still does) but also a form of > >> proto-structuralism. Organic structure involved a complex whole with > parts > >> that are interdependent like organs and not independent like ball > bearings. > >> > >> Today, this semantic prosody falls on deaf ears. If anything, it's the > >> other way around: we know all about cells, and we know that they are > >> independant and dispensible in large numbers (you slough off millions > every > >> day). But mechanical parts are precisely engineered to fit each other, > and > >> for the want of one, the whole machine comes to a grinding halt. > >> > >> Nevertheless, we can still see this older meaning of organicism in > >> Toennies' distinction between Gemeinschaft (community, mechanical > >> solidarity) and Gesellschaft (society,organic solidarity) and also in > the > >> work of Bernsetin (workers have a mechanical solidarity based on > likeness > >> while middle class people have organic solidarity based on mutual > >> instrumentality). > >> > >> (Of course, there's the same problem. Even working class families have > an > >> organic solidarity, while it is sometimes hard to believe that white > collar > >> office workers sitting at computers in cubicles are anything bt > >> mechanical....) > >> > >> David Kellogg > >> Macquarie University > >> > >> On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 4:20 AM, Edward Wall wrote: > >> > >>> Stanislavisk seems to consider what is termed ?organic? in his taking > up > >>> of perezhivanie. Vygotsky also uses the term ?organic,? although as > near as > >>> I can tell, without regard to perezhivanie. However, what seems to be > being > >>> called ?organic? is very different (or so it seems) in these two > cases. Is > >>> the Rusiian different? > >>> > >>> Ed Wall > >>> > >>>> On Feb 2, 2017, at 11:15 AM, lpscholar2@gmail.com wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Beth and Monica explore the phenomena occurring in playworlds > generating > >>> perezhivanie. > >>>> > >>>> Playworlds are performance worlds and these worlds may be exploring > the > >>> relation of ?unity? and ?difference?. > >>>> > >>>> Another term that may have relevance when Beth and Monica refer to > >>> negating the negation is the operation of ?apophasis?. > >>>> William Frank (On What Cannot Be Said) describes the apophatic : > >>>> > >>>> *In apophasis, which empties language of all positive content, > absolute > >>> difference cannot be distinguished from absolute unity, even though the > >>> respective discourses of difference and unity nominally stand at the > >>> antipodes. BOTH configurations, unity and difference, are exposed as > >>> relatively arbitrary and, in the end, equally inadequate schemas for > >>> articulating what cannot be said. (Franke) > >>>> > >>>> Claire Chambers in her book (Performance Studies and Negative > >>> Epistemology) comments on the above Franke citation : > >>>> > >>>> *If unity and difference cannot be distinguished from one another (we > >>> cannot KNOW what makes them distinct), then it is impossible to > determine > >>> what either ?is? ? meaning that knowing and being, epistemology and > >>> ontology, are also impossible to distinguish from one another.(Claire > >>> Chambers Chapter 1) > >>>> > >>>> I am not sure how far to go with this theme of : Negating the > negation? > >>>> I hear this theme in playworlds. > >>>> > >>>> If this seems relevant, i can post the first chapter of Claire > Chambers > >>> book. I will just mention that Vygotsky?s Judaic childhood and > adolescence > >>> would have encountered this apophatic ?tradition?. > >>>> Enough for one probe or possible pivot? > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Sent from my Windows 10 phone > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > > > > > > > > From lpscholar2@gmail.com Sun Feb 5 16:50:40 2017 From: lpscholar2@gmail.com (lpscholar2@gmail.com) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 16:50:40 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Perezhivanie and Organic In-Reply-To: References: <5893695b.c32f630a.3d640.41ee@mx.google.com> <58975ff5.8e3f630a.4fc2a.5fd5@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5897c892.d348620a.eb223.9306@mx.google.com> Mike, As I read Beth and Monica?s contribution to this months special article on perezhivanie, I was aware of a subtext I was trying to flesh out that included performance studies. This connection you offer between communications and performance studies running through Dwight Conquergood and Patrick Anderson confirms my hunch. As you say you have to see a playworld performed to believe it. Until that moment there is a type of blindness (not seeing). This also fits with Michael?s expression that we must acknowledge that we are blind (NOT seeing) before we can see. We must acknowled our NOT knowing before we can know. Beth said we need to acknowledge what is mutual in exploring perezhivanie but she also called for acknowledging the differences within the various approaches, and that each individual article in this month?s journal may point to the necessity for its own special acknowledgement. In this vein I pursued Beth?s acknowledging the NOT as negation and the not ...not as a doubling or negating the negation. ( i can Not see acknowleding blindness, doubling to acknowledging my blindness leading to NOT not being blind, meaning I can see. Claire Chambers in her book (Performance Studies and Negative Epistemology) traces apophasis as a tradition that adds to this way of acknowledging we are blind and unknowing. Claire does acknowledge Dwight Conquerwood and performance studies as exploring reception and encounter without domination while SERVING community and participation. The same ethic as Ana?s performance. The concern for efficacy in the creation of a ?liminal? experience is also about forging an ?alternative? space for community. This cultural performance emphasizing?: Mutuality, interdependence, and vulnerability. Claire says Conquerwood, by using performance as a paradigm for ethnography, resisted the dominant discourse in the field of anthropology, which prized accurate description and categorization instead of working to *open up* the interrelated lives of both ethnographer and subject. By positioning the ethnographer as an actor, performing a role, a role the ethnographer vividly acknowledges she is performing, the ethnographer is able to engage her subjects as co-actors who collaborate in a fragile ?fiction?. The performance paradigm struggles for cultural authenticity rather than accuracy. Performance for Conquerwood is a cultural ?struggle? ? how to make meaning of the world, especially in the experience of disenfranchisement -that is shaped by the interdependence of self and other. Claire Chambers is here outlining the ?apophatic/ apophasis? undercurrent of performance studies that acknowledges the preference for liminal transformation and commitment to an ethical encounter with the other?: emphasizing mutuality, interdependence, and vulnerability. I have taken an extended turn, hoping to open this particular door (metaphor of the pivot) that we can walk through into this unmapped territory. Inspired by Beth and Monica?s contribution to perezhivanie and Michael?s appeal for acknowledging our blindness as a way of seeing. My turn is up. Sent from my Windows 10 phone From: mike cole Sent: February 5, 2017 10:07 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Perezhivanie and Organic It may be of interest, Larry, that performance studies play a significant role in the thinking of my colleagues in the Communication Department here. So there is a thread of history that goes from Dwight Conquergood through Patrick Anderson who was on Beth's disseration committee. You have to see a playworld performed to believe it, as the expression goes. The need for undergraduates to *perform *the after-school activity called the Fifth Dimension was central both to the process of its reproduction over a couple of decades and to the education of the undergraduates who had to figure out how Dewey's ideas were, or were not, helpful in their efforts at star performances. mike mike On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 10:30 AM, wrote: > Another scholar of ?performance studies? is Richard Schechner who posits a > continuum for ?performance? that spans 5 categories: play, games, sports, > theatre, ritual. > Play is ?free? where ritual is ?strictly? programmed or designed, while > games, sports and theatre MEDIATE between these extremes as more play-like > or more ritual-like. > This continuum is basically an elaboration of how performances are > variations on ?ritual? as an encompassing category. > > This allows Schechner to extend the values of ritual into creation of > symbolic reality that pervades the analysis of other performance genres: > play, games, sports, ritual. > > Shechner explains performance studies in the preface to his book > [Performance Studies: An Introduction]: > > Performance studies ? as a practice, a theory, an academic discipline ? is > dynamic, UNFINISHABLE. Whatever it is, it wasn?t exactly that before and > it won?t be exactly that again. > > One dominant metaphor by which performance studies has been figured is > ?the unmapped terrain?. > This metaphor figures uncertainty, ambiguity, navigating the > incomprehensible, the ungraspable, the unsaying at the heart of the > certain, the graspable, the comprehensible, the saying. > > This unmapped terrain may be ??exhilarating? for those scholars and > persons who relish ?not knowing? that is hard to pin down. So too is the > study of ?performance? exhilarating and privileges open-ended questions. > > The potential to illuminate, instruct, an inspire, is enhanced not > diminished by this ever present ?uncertainty?. Don?t try to fix performance > studies down is its central value and if you do the symbolic realm will > become a mere idol. > > By insisting that performance studies cannot be fixed or defined, > performance studies is situated as a NEGATIVE discipline trafficking in > ?denials? and the unsaying of speech. > > This gives a flavour of the way performance studies is posited in > apophatic terms of the unmapped terrain in the fashion of Schechner?s > explorations of the continuum of ritual, play, games, sports, theatre. > > Beth and Monica exploring playworlds and perezhivanie can be put in > dialogue with Schechner. > > I was channelling Claire Chambers above who is deeply engaged with this > performance thematic playing out through historical epochs and becoming > secularized in modern performance studies. > > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > From: Edward Wall > Sent: February 4, 2017 4:10 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Perezhivanie and Organic > > David > > Yes, that was the difference I was noting. Vygotsky in the passages I > was reading seems to using ?organic? as denoting something ?natural,' while > Stanislavsky seemed to using it s somewhat more holistic fashion. > > Ed > > > On Feb 2, 2017, at 3:01 PM, David Kellogg wrote: > > > > The Russian word that Vygotsky uses for "organic" is the same as the word > > we use, and I assume that the same thing is true of the word that > > Stanislavsky used. It is "organic" transliterated into Cyrillic, rather > > than translated into Russian. > > > > What really makes this problem new-thread-worthy is that the meaning of > the > > word "organic" at the end of the nineteenth century is not the same as > the > > word meaning that we use in several important ways. > > > > Take, for example, the crudest possible way: semantic prosody, or the > "good > > vibes" of some words (e.g. "organic food") vs. the "bad vibes" of others > > (e.g. "artificial flavor"). The nineteenth century began with a romantic > > movement towards nature and towards holism ("Gestaltism"), against > dogmatic > > rationalism and atomism. So "organicism" had a semantic prosody that > > involved not only naturalism (which it still does) but also a form of > > proto-structuralism. Organic structure involved a complex whole with > parts > > that are interdependent like organs and not independent like ball > bearings. > > > > Today, this semantic prosody falls on deaf ears. If anything, it's the > > other way around: we know all about cells, and we know that they are > > independant and dispensible in large numbers (you slough off millions > every > > day). But mechanical parts are precisely engineered to fit each other, > and > > for the want of one, the whole machine comes to a grinding halt. > > > > Nevertheless, we can still see this older meaning of organicism in > > Toennies' distinction between Gemeinschaft (community, mechanical > > solidarity) and Gesellschaft (society,organic solidarity) and also in the > > work of Bernsetin (workers have a mechanical solidarity based on likeness > > while middle class people have organic solidarity based on mutual > > instrumentality). > > > > (Of course, there's the same problem. Even working class families have an > > organic solidarity, while it is sometimes hard to believe that white > collar > > office workers sitting at computers in cubicles are anything bt > > mechanical....) > > > > David Kellogg > > Macquarie University > > > > On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 4:20 AM, Edward Wall wrote: > > > >> Stanislavisk seems to consider what is termed ?organic? in his taking up > >> of perezhivanie. Vygotsky also uses the term ?organic,? although as > near as > >> I can tell, without regard to perezhivanie. However, what seems to be > being > >> called ?organic? is very different (or so it seems) in these two cases. > Is > >> the Rusiian different? > >> > >> Ed Wall > >> > >>> On Feb 2, 2017, at 11:15 AM, lpscholar2@gmail.com wrote: > >>> > >>> Beth and Monica explore the phenomena occurring in playworlds > generating > >> perezhivanie. > >>> > >>> Playworlds are performance worlds and these worlds may be exploring the > >> relation of ?unity? and ?difference?. > >>> > >>> Another term that may have relevance when Beth and Monica refer to > >> negating the negation is the operation of ?apophasis?. > >>> William Frank (On What Cannot Be Said) describes the apophatic : > >>> > >>> *In apophasis, which empties language of all positive content, absolute > >> difference cannot be distinguished from absolute unity, even though the > >> respective discourses of difference and unity nominally stand at the > >> antipodes. BOTH configurations, unity and difference, are exposed as > >> relatively arbitrary and, in the end, equally inadequate schemas for > >> articulating what cannot be said. (Franke) > >>> > >>> Claire Chambers in her book (Performance Studies and Negative > >> Epistemology) comments on the above Franke citation : > >>> > >>> *If unity and difference cannot be distinguished from one another (we > >> cannot KNOW what makes them distinct), then it is impossible to > determine > >> what either ?is? ? meaning that knowing and being, epistemology and > >> ontology, are also impossible to distinguish from one another.(Claire > >> Chambers Chapter 1) > >>> > >>> I am not sure how far to go with this theme of : Negating the negation? > >>> I hear this theme in playworlds. > >>> > >>> If this seems relevant, i can post the first chapter of Claire Chambers > >> book. I will just mention that Vygotsky?s Judaic childhood and > adolescence > >> would have encountered this apophatic ?tradition?. > >>> Enough for one probe or possible pivot? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Sent from my Windows 10 phone > >>> > >> > >> > >> > > > > From greg.a.thompson@gmail.com Sun Feb 5 17:27:39 2017 From: greg.a.thompson@gmail.com (Greg Thompson) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 18:27:39 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Playworlds, Performance, Perezhivanie, Apophasis ... and TRUMP'S speech! In-Reply-To: <20AD4506-5F47-4029-89BE-0CD332315BE2@umich.edu> References: <5893695b.c32f630a.3d640.41ee@mx.google.com> <1486189210098.72503@iped.uio.no> <1486277344127.10046@iped.uio.no> <20AD4506-5F47-4029-89BE-0CD332315BE2@umich.edu> Message-ID: Ed, Could you expand on Heidegger and aletheia and Trump? (and Tugendhat). If it isn't too much trouble I'd appreciate the expansion very much. -greg On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 1:05 PM, Edward Wall wrote: > It is perhaps worth pointing out that there are two different words being > used to supposedly point at the same thing (transliterated and taken from > Liddell and Scott): > > apophansis: a declaration or statement > apophasis: a denial, negation > > Hence, people may be misinterpreting each other. > > One could read Trump?s speaking with an eye to Heidegger, but it would > probablye done in term of aletheia. However, Tugendhat has shown that all > this is a little more complicated that Heidegger indicated. > > Ed Wall > > > On Feb 5, 2017, at 12:49 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > wrote: > > > > Henry, > > > > I guess for the cartoon to be about apophansis, Trump's speech would > have to present itself to Trump's supporters as two opposed things > *simultaneously*, but then perhaps this no longer would be *genuine* > speech, in the sense Heidegger's treatment of Aristotle suggests. Trump's > speech would be rather *deceiving,* i.e., "putting something in front of > something else ... and thereby passing it off *as* something it is *not*". > > > > Cognitive dissonance seems to imply there is some processing between > the said (logos) and its showing of itself *as* something, which would not > fit well Heidegger... In any case, as the cartoon nicely illustrates, > Trumps' supporters may be having a hard time too, it can't be easy. > > > > Alfredo > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________ > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Wolff-Michael Roth > > Sent: 05 February 2017 02:22 > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Cc: Wolff-Michael Roth > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Playworlds, Performance, Perezhivanie, Apophasis > ... and TRUMP'S speech! > > > > When you have a question about a concept, look up where it is defined. > > Michael > > > > Heidegger, 1996, pp. 28?29 > > Rather, logos as speech really means *deloun*, to make manifest "what > > is being talked about" in speech. Aristotle explicates this function of > > speech more precisely as *apophainesthai*. Logos lets something be seen > > (*phainesthai*), namely what is being talked about, and indeed for the > > speaker (who serves as the medium) or for those who speak with each > > other. Speech "lets us see," from itself, *apo*. . . , what is being > talked > > about. In speech (*apophansis*), insofar as it is genuine, what is said > > should > > be derived from what is being talked about. In this way spoken commu- > > nication, in what it says, makes manifest what it is talking about and > > thus makes it accessible to another. Such is the structure of logos as > > apophansis. > > Not every "speech" suits *this* mode of making manifest, in the > > sense of letting something be seen by indicating it. For example, > requesting > > (*euche*) also makes something manifest, but in a different way. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > -------------------- > > Wolff-Michael Roth, Lansdowne Professor > > Applied Cognitive Science > > MacLaurin Building A567 > > University of Victoria > > Victoria, BC, V8P 5C2 > > http://web.uvic.ca/~mroth > > > > New book: *The Mathematics of Mathematics > > directions-in-mathematics-and-science-education/the- > mathematics-of-mathematics/>* > > > > On Sat, Feb 4, 2017 at 4:50 PM, HENRY SHONERD > wrote: > > > >> Alfredo, > >> Would the attached link be an example of apophasis? I hope the link gets > >> you the cartoon from Daily Kos on Feb 1, which illustrates the > "cognitive > >> dissonance of Trump supporters?. > >> > >> http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/2/1/1628099/- > >> Cartoon-Trump-supporters-cognitive-dissonance?detail= > >> email&link_id=15&can_id=d9825820685b26308482b9b5c5bb09 > >> 5d&source=email-trump-reportedly-tells-female-staffers-to-dress-like- > >> womentwitter-says-fun&email_referrer=trump-reportedly- > >> tells-female-staffers-to-dress-like-womentwitter-says- > >> fun___162460&email_subject=news-organizations-and- > >> festivities-begin-pulling-out-of-annual-correspondents-dinner-with-trump > < > >> http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/2/1/1628099/- > >> Cartoon-Trump-supporters-cognitive-dissonance?detail= > >> email&link_id=15&can_id=d9825820685b26308482b9b5c5bb09 > >> 5d&source=email-trump-reportedly-tells-female-staffers-to-dress-like- > >> womentwitter-says-fun&email_referrer=trump-reportedly- > >> tells-female-staffers-to-dress-like-womentwitter-says- > >> fun___162460&email_subject=news-organizations-and- > >> festivities-begin-pulling-out-of-annual-correspondents- > dinner-with-trump> > >> > >> Henry > >> > >> > >>> On Feb 3, 2017, at 11:20 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> Larry, > >>> I am familiar with the term apophantic (the auto-spelling keeps > >> correcting the term to "hipophatic" which is the term you use) as it > >> appears in Heidegger. Not sure now about the connection with Vygotsky > that > >> you are after; it seems quite of a complex thread to weave across, at > least > >> in the xmca format. > >>> > >>> But!, since I wanted to make sure we were using the same term, I did > >> google it and, guess what I found? An example of apophasis as used by > >> TRUMP!: > >>> > >>> In 2015, Trump said of fellow Republican presidential candidate and > >> former Hewlett-Packard CEO Carly Fiorina, "I promised I would not say > that > >> she ran Hewlett-Packard into the ground, that she laid off tens of > >> thousands of people and she got viciously fired. I said I will not say > it, > >> so I will not say it."In 2016, he tweeted of journalist Megyn Kelly, ?I > >> refuse to call [her] a bimbo, because that would not be politically > >> correct." > >>> > >>> Here is the link to the full article from the Huffington post: > >>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-rhetorical-device_us_ > >> 56c358cbe4b0c3c55052b32b > >>> > >>> Alfredo > >>> ________________________________________ > >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > >> on behalf of lpscholar2@gmail.com > >>> Sent: 02 February 2017 18:15 > >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Playworlds, Performance, Perezhivanie, Apophasis > >>> > >>> Beth and Monica explore the phenomena occurring in playworlds > generating > >> perezhivanie. > >>> > >>> Playworlds are performance worlds and these worlds may be exploring the > >> relation of ?unity? and ?difference?. > >>> > >>> Another term that may have relevance when Beth and Monica refer to > >> negating the negation is the operation of ?apophasis?. > >>> William Frank (On What Cannot Be Said) describes the apophatic : > >>> > >>> *In apophasis, which empties language of all positive content, absolute > >> difference cannot be distinguished from absolute unity, even though the > >> respective discourses of difference and unity nominally stand at the > >> antipodes. BOTH configurations, unity and difference, are exposed as > >> relatively arbitrary and, in the end, equally inadequate schemas for > >> articulating what cannot be said. (Franke) > >>> > >>> Claire Chambers in her book (Performance Studies and Negative > >> Epistemology) comments on the above Franke citation : > >>> > >>> *If unity and difference cannot be distinguished from one another (we > >> cannot KNOW what makes them distinct), then it is impossible to > determine > >> what either ?is? ? meaning that knowing and being, epistemology and > >> ontology, are also impossible to distinguish from one another.(Claire > >> Chambers Chapter 1) > >>> > >>> I am not sure how far to go with this theme of : Negating the negation? > >>> I hear this theme in playworlds. > >>> > >>> If this seems relevant, i can post the first chapter of Claire Chambers > >> book. I will just mention that Vygotsky?s Judaic childhood and > adolescence > >> would have encountered this apophatic ?tradition?. > >>> Enough for one probe or possible pivot? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Sent from my Windows 10 phone > >>> > >> > >> > > > -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson From mcole@ucsd.edu Sun Feb 5 17:32:47 2017 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 17:32:47 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Perezhivanie and Organic In-Reply-To: <5897c892.d348620a.eb223.9306@mx.google.com> References: <5893695b.c32f630a.3d640.41ee@mx.google.com> <58975ff5.8e3f630a.4fc2a.5fd5@mx.google.com> <5897c892.d348620a.eb223.9306@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Your comments put me very much in mind of the idea of "third spaces" as articulated by Kris Gutierrez, and a range of people she in turn draws upon. In so far as that is the case, it opens up an avenue for linking this discussion to discourse in the critical learning sciences for whom Kris's idea of a social design experiment is one model of action. That work has generally provided the kind of education/theory/service(practice) view I was seeking to articulate. mike mike mike On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 4:50 PM, wrote: > Mike, > > As I read Beth and Monica?s contribution to this months special article on > perezhivanie, I was aware of a subtext I was trying to flesh out that > included performance studies. This connection you offer between > communications and performance studies running through Dwight Conquergood > and Patrick Anderson confirms my hunch. > > As you say you have to see a playworld performed to believe it. Until that > moment there is a type of blindness (not seeing). This also fits with > Michael?s expression that we must acknowledge that we are blind (NOT > seeing) before we can see. We must acknowled our NOT knowing before we can > know. > > > > Beth said we need to acknowledge what is mutual in exploring perezhivanie > but she also called for acknowledging the differences within the various > approaches, and that each individual article in this month?s journal may > point to the necessity for its own special acknowledgement. > > In this vein I pursued Beth?s acknowledging the NOT as negation and the > not ...not as a doubling or negating the negation. ( i can Not see > acknowleding blindness, doubling to acknowledging my blindness leading to > NOT not being blind, meaning I can see. > > > > Claire Chambers in her book (Performance Studies and Negative > Epistemology) traces apophasis as a tradition that adds to this way of > acknowledging we are blind and unknowing. > > > > Claire does acknowledge Dwight Conquerwood and performance studies as > exploring reception and encounter without domination while SERVING > community and participation. The same ethic as Ana?s performance. The > concern for efficacy in the creation of a ?liminal? experience is also > about forging an ?alternative? space for community. This cultural > performance emphasizing : > > Mutuality, interdependence, and vulnerability. > > Claire says Conquerwood, by using performance as a paradigm for > ethnography, resisted the dominant discourse in the field of anthropology, > which prized accurate description and categorization instead of working to **open > up** the interrelated lives of both ethnographer and subject. By > positioning the ethnographer as an actor, performing a role, a role the > ethnographer vividly acknowledges she is performing, the ethnographer is > able to engage her subjects as co-actors who collaborate in a fragile > ?fiction?. The performance paradigm struggles for cultural authenticity > rather than accuracy. Performance for Conquerwood is a cultural ?struggle? > ? how to make meaning of the world, especially in the experience of > disenfranchisement -that is shaped by the interdependence of self and other. > > > > Claire Chambers is here outlining the ?apophatic/ apophasis? undercurrent > of performance studies that acknowledges the preference for liminal > transformation and commitment to an ethical encounter with the other : > emphasizing mutuality, interdependence, and vulnerability. > > > > I have taken an extended turn, hoping to open this particular door > (metaphor of the pivot) that we can walk through into this unmapped > territory. > > Inspired by Beth and Monica?s contribution to perezhivanie and Michael?s > appeal for acknowledging our blindness as a way of seeing. > > > > My turn is up. > > > > Sent from my Windows 10 phone > > > > *From: *mike cole > *Sent: *February 5, 2017 10:07 AM > *To: *eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: Perezhivanie and Organic > > > > It may be of interest, Larry, that performance studies play a significant > > role in the thinking of my colleagues in the Communication Department > > here. So there is a thread of history that goes from Dwight Conquergood > > through Patrick Anderson who was on Beth's disseration committee. You have > > to see a playworld performed to believe it, as the expression goes. > > > > The need for undergraduates to *perform *the after-school activity called > > the Fifth Dimension was central both to the process of its reproduction > > over a couple of decades and to the education of the undergraduates who had > > to figure out how Dewey's ideas were, or were not, helpful in their efforts > > at star performances. > > > > mike > > mike > > > > On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 10:30 AM, wrote: > > > > > Another scholar of ?performance studies? is Richard Schechner who posits > a > > > continuum for ?performance? that spans 5 categories: play, games, sports, > > > theatre, ritual. > > > Play is ?free? where ritual is ?strictly? programmed or designed, while > > > games, sports and theatre MEDIATE between these extremes as more > play-like > > > or more ritual-like. > > > This continuum is basically an elaboration of how performances are > > > variations on ?ritual? as an encompassing category. > > > > > > This allows Schechner to extend the values of ritual into creation of > > > symbolic reality that pervades the analysis of other performance genres: > > > play, games, sports, ritual. > > > > > > Shechner explains performance studies in the preface to his book > > > [Performance Studies: An Introduction]: > > > > > > Performance studies ? as a practice, a theory, an academic discipline ? > is > > > dynamic, UNFINISHABLE. Whatever it is, it wasn?t exactly that before and > > > it won?t be exactly that again. > > > > > > One dominant metaphor by which performance studies has been figured is > > > ?the unmapped terrain?. > > > This metaphor figures uncertainty, ambiguity, navigating the > > > incomprehensible, the ungraspable, the unsaying at the heart of the > > > certain, the graspable, the comprehensible, the saying. > > > > > > This unmapped terrain may be ??exhilarating? for those scholars and > > > persons who relish ?not knowing? that is hard to pin down. So too is the > > > study of ?performance? exhilarating and privileges open-ended questions. > > > > > > The potential to illuminate, instruct, an inspire, is enhanced not > > > diminished by this ever present ?uncertainty?. Don?t try to fix > performance > > > studies down is its central value and if you do the symbolic realm will > > > become a mere idol. > > > > > > By insisting that performance studies cannot be fixed or defined, > > > performance studies is situated as a NEGATIVE discipline trafficking in > > > ?denials? and the unsaying of speech. > > > > > > This gives a flavour of the way performance studies is posited in > > > apophatic terms of the unmapped terrain in the fashion of Schechner?s > > > explorations of the continuum of ritual, play, games, sports, theatre. > > > > > > Beth and Monica exploring playworlds and perezhivanie can be put in > > > dialogue with Schechner. > > > > > > I was channelling Claire Chambers above who is deeply engaged with this > > > performance thematic playing out through historical epochs and becoming > > > secularized in modern performance studies. > > > > > > > > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > > > > > From: Edward Wall > > > Sent: February 4, 2017 4:10 PM > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Perezhivanie and Organic > > > > > > David > > > > > > Yes, that was the difference I was noting. Vygotsky in the passages > I > > > was reading seems to using ?organic? as denoting something ?natural,' > while > > > Stanislavsky seemed to using it s somewhat more holistic fashion. > > > > > > Ed > > > > > > > On Feb 2, 2017, at 3:01 PM, David Kellogg > wrote: > > > > > > > > The Russian word that Vygotsky uses for "organic" is the same as the > word > > > > we use, and I assume that the same thing is true of the word that > > > > Stanislavsky used. It is "organic" transliterated into Cyrillic, rather > > > > than translated into Russian. > > > > > > > > What really makes this problem new-thread-worthy is that the meaning of > > > the > > > > word "organic" at the end of the nineteenth century is not the same as > > > the > > > > word meaning that we use in several important ways. > > > > > > > > Take, for example, the crudest possible way: semantic prosody, or the > > > "good > > > > vibes" of some words (e.g. "organic food") vs. the "bad vibes" of > others > > > > (e.g. "artificial flavor"). The nineteenth century began with a > romantic > > > > movement towards nature and towards holism ("Gestaltism"), against > > > dogmatic > > > > rationalism and atomism. So "organicism" had a semantic prosody that > > > > involved not only naturalism (which it still does) but also a form of > > > > proto-structuralism. Organic structure involved a complex whole with > > > parts > > > > that are interdependent like organs and not independent like ball > > > bearings. > > > > > > > > Today, this semantic prosody falls on deaf ears. If anything, it's the > > > > other way around: we know all about cells, and we know that they are > > > > independant and dispensible in large numbers (you slough off millions > > > every > > > > day). But mechanical parts are precisely engineered to fit each other, > > > and > > > > for the want of one, the whole machine comes to a grinding halt. > > > > > > > > Nevertheless, we can still see this older meaning of organicism in > > > > Toennies' distinction between Gemeinschaft (community, mechanical > > > > solidarity) and Gesellschaft (society,organic solidarity) and also in > the > > > > work of Bernsetin (workers have a mechanical solidarity based on > likeness > > > > while middle class people have organic solidarity based on mutual > > > > instrumentality). > > > > > > > > (Of course, there's the same problem. Even working class families have > an > > > > organic solidarity, while it is sometimes hard to believe that white > > > collar > > > > office workers sitting at computers in cubicles are anything bt > > > > mechanical....) > > > > > > > > David Kellogg > > > > Macquarie University > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 4:20 AM, Edward Wall wrote: > > > > > > > >> Stanislavisk seems to consider what is termed ?organic? in his taking > up > > > >> of perezhivanie. Vygotsky also uses the term ?organic,? although as > > > near as > > > >> I can tell, without regard to perezhivanie. However, what seems to be > > > being > > > >> called ?organic? is very different (or so it seems) in these two > cases. > > > Is > > > >> the Rusiian different? > > > >> > > > >> Ed Wall > > > >> > > > >>> On Feb 2, 2017, at 11:15 AM, lpscholar2@gmail.com wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>> Beth and Monica explore the phenomena occurring in playworlds > > > generating > > > >> perezhivanie. > > > >>> > > > >>> Playworlds are performance worlds and these worlds may be exploring > the > > > >> relation of ?unity? and ?difference?. > > > >>> > > > >>> Another term that may have relevance when Beth and Monica refer to > > > >> negating the negation is the operation of ?apophasis?. > > > >>> William Frank (On What Cannot Be Said) describes the apophatic : > > > >>> > > > >>> *In apophasis, which empties language of all positive content, > absolute > > > >> difference cannot be distinguished from absolute unity, even though > the > > > >> respective discourses of difference and unity nominally stand at the > > > >> antipodes. BOTH configurations, unity and difference, are exposed as > > > >> relatively arbitrary and, in the end, equally inadequate schemas for > > > >> articulating what cannot be said. (Franke) > > > >>> > > > >>> Claire Chambers in her book (Performance Studies and Negative > > > >> Epistemology) comments on the above Franke citation : > > > >>> > > > >>> *If unity and difference cannot be distinguished from one another (we > > > >> cannot KNOW what makes them distinct), then it is impossible to > > > determine > > > >> what either ?is? ? meaning that knowing and being, epistemology and > > > >> ontology, are also impossible to distinguish from one another.(Claire > > > >> Chambers Chapter 1) > > > >>> > > > >>> I am not sure how far to go with this theme of : Negating the > negation? > > > >>> I hear this theme in playworlds. > > > >>> > > > >>> If this seems relevant, i can post the first chapter of Claire > Chambers > > > >> book. I will just mention that Vygotsky?s Judaic childhood and > > > adolescence > > > >> would have encountered this apophatic ?tradition?. > > > >>> Enough for one probe or possible pivot? > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> Sent from my Windows 10 phone > > > >>> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From bferholt@gmail.com Sun Feb 5 18:37:37 2017 From: bferholt@gmail.com (Beth Ferholt) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 21:37:37 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fate of a Man In-Reply-To: References: <048522a2-cca0-3e56-cae2-f2142b9fbd5a@mira.net> <1484427999407.2877@iped.uio.no> <2270f5e7-7d82-5150-89a3-808a4e20b89b@mira.net> <9B8D2964-0926-4976-91F2-CDD51E50A6F5@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the calling out to Monica and me, Mike and Andy -- I had to stop checking XMCA for a couple of weeks so I did not see the discussion or your notes to me in the chain, until today. One of the the strengths of XMCA is that it creates a conversation that can include people who can not always respond that very day, or even week, due to various forms of interruption! Often these "interruptions" are children or political events, which can help us to understand perezhivanie. As well as spending time at JFK, recently, many of us here in New York have been attending local protests to keep our neighborhoods feeling safe for everyone. I live in a neighborhood in Brooklyn that includes several Muslim communities and several Jewish communities (as well as a few Russian and Polish communities), and at the local protests these past few weeks some people have had photographs of their family members who were killed by the Nazis attached to the back of their "never again" signs. Also we all, Muslim, Jewish, etc. families, have been often bringing our children to the protests. So I have been thinking a lot about children and hope, during the past few weeks. It is within this frame that I saw this film. I think the film was expecting us to see the child as only benefitting from the main character's lying, saying that he was the child's father, and of course the child did benefit, but I think that perezhivanie is about truth, somehow, although I am not sure how. My second thought is that Manchester by the Sea must have been referencing this film, with its return-to-the-space-where-the-house-was scene, and also with the choice to replace the lost self (as father) / family or no. I think it might help this conversation if we all saw both films, actually. Two thoughts on this methods suggestion for our conversation, before I return to the topic itself. 1) It is odd how closely the two films are related, as I did not know that the two films were related when I told Chris to see Manchester by the Sea in relation to thinking about perezhivanie. I told Chris when I saw him in person, and I think that discussions about perezhivanie are often different in person. We learned at LCHC in the 2004/5 playworld projects that these in person discussions about perezhivanie have a pronounced proleptic structure, mirroring the topic of study, such that the conclusion of the discussion appears at the start: It feels like magic is happening. (I think this has something to do with how good teachers see the things in their classroom that are useful or no before they happen or "behind their heads" ... when you are very present you have this "sixth sense," which is really an experience of time moving in two directions at once ... being very present can often require a lot of in person time and being with children speeds up the process.) 2) It is a strength that the XMCA conversations can continue through all of our different schedules. It is a negative that they are not in person, and seeing films together can really help. This is where we went on the perezhivanie facebook page when it was briefly in English and in Russian -- with a film, and it was very helpful. (Of course I am thinking of this while considering the changing role and form of LCHC and Mike's participation in LCHC and XMCA. I am thinking of the mistakes that are communication. A story about this that I thought of recently, which shows this point well, and seems worth retelling BECAUSE when studying perezhivanie the form is often (always??) the study of the content: As a newish graduate student Mike once said "thank you" to me when I made a comment in the afternoon about an AM conversation that day. Mike's "thank you" encouraged me to pay extra attention to this comment/thought of mine, which later became important in our analysis of a difficult-to-decipher playworld event. I was thinking of this event as I walked and talked with a doctoral student of my own -- I seem to have a heavily spacial memory process and my student and I were walking through a doorway -- and I suddenly realized that Mike could have been thanking me for holding the door for him at this time in the past when his feedback was so important to me ... maybe he did not hear my comment, but just thanked me for holding the door ... in fact it now appears to me that this was probably the case!) The interesting thing to me about the above 2 points is the framing. It IS the "()" within the "()" that interests me. Maybe Framing is all communication or all thought or consciousness ... Bateson? ... but I think we need to tackle framing head on when discussing perezhivanie. The two films are very different in regards to framing, I think this is why they are most interesting to think about together, but first I have two citations for thinking about time that I use frequently in my writing on perezhivanie. These seem worth repeating here, as this thinking about time in space/time seems to me to be thinking about framing ... the "()" makes us double back in time as we read -- : (As to Performance, Alfredo copied the Schechner quote above.) Dewey's relation of the notion of object to prolepsis (on XMCA): Mike (2007) used the term ?temporally double sided? to describe this phenomenon of growing back and towards the future and the past simultaneously. What I am (still) thinking about, now, most often: It is the juxtaposition of temporal double sidedness with stages that creates perezhivanie. What Schechner argues is that this juxtaposition provides the rhythm that allows us to raise ourselves up and hover, suspended momentarily in a state of being simultaneously ourselves and not ourselves: our past and future selves (someone else). So my first point is about framing and my second is about children. The Fate Of Man is all about the frames / "()". The stories are nested within eachother, repeating themselves, maybe even sort of like a fractal, or anyhow a spiral? I have some congenital prosopagnosia, getting worse as I age and definitely bad with a film like this. I kept thinking we were back at the ferry as the form of the conversation and context images repeated themselves, as I could not recognize the face of the character who was the audience for our hero's story! Manchester by the Sea, on the other hand, had no frames. We just jumped right in and rode it through. I only saw Manchester once but do others think this is true? relevant? I think that the question of children's position in relation to adult perezhivanie is central in both of these films. The children in both of these films appear to want the main characters to try again at being fathers. This is a critique of films about children -- I can not think of the name of the person who made this critique, but I can find it for anyone if needed -- : We adults often make films not about children but about our own childhoods. We make films about children who are no longer with us. But is this really best for the films, as films are usually best when they are somehow in dialogue with their topic, this is a characteristic of the medium, no? If you do not have some pretense, some playing again, you can not have perezhivanie. But I think that Fate of Man is not about perezhivanie, although in a different way than Manchester by the Sea is not about perezhivanie. In Manchester by the Sea there is no other with whom to perezhivanie because the main character and his former wife still love each other, or at lease he still loves her and she returns enough of the love to keep him loving her, and neither of them can pull the other up because they both hit bottom together and in the same story. In Fate of Man there is is no chance for perezhivanie because the other needs to be involved in some honest way, or there is no dialogue. In Fate of Man the hero seems to me to be playing out his memory in the real world. A child is not an other with whom one can ever perezhivanie. This is not perezhivanie as there is no real world as a player, and this is why our hero's heart will fail him. He did not reach bottom and then start to pull himself up by connecting with another with great bravery. Instead, as he says himself, he just snapped -- he is now living in a dream. As Larry put it, above in this chain: "In other words, navigating through the suffering and existential emptiness is not a hero?s journey." And this point is relevant, again, to our method for studying perezhivanie. I don't think we can manage this one on our own (XMCA), even as a group that allows for conversations over extended time periods. If form and content are related in this process, I'd say that we won't understand this process until we see children as full people. And simultaneously as children. Children have something to tell us about this process that no one else can tell us, and they are not going to tell us this in a way that those of us who are researchers/scholars can listen, without the bridge of the teacher voices. How to include these voices in our research is key. And the answer has something to do with art, as well as with time and space. I am going to send this as it is long enough already, and then catch up with the related chains after I do ... And I won't say more now, but I agree with all the people who thought this was a great pick to start the discussion. Many levels to discuss and I also found many aspects of the film related to perezhivanie in many ways! Beth On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 11:51 PM, Andy Blunden wrote: > How about a documentary movie about the first Trump voter who dies as a > result of repeal of Obama Care? That would be a perezhivanie within a > perezhivanie! > > Andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > http://home.mira.net/~andy > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making > On 21/01/2017 12:03 PM, Helena Worthen wrote: > >> I am late to this discussion, but I have been paying attention. I was >> reluctant to expose myself to the emotional challenges of the film. I knew >> that between the majestic music, the stunning black and white images, the >> beautiful human faces and bodies (and some very ugly ones), and the twists >> of the story, I was going to be deeply moved. However, I have been reading >> two books by Svetlana Alexievich -- Voices from Chernobyl and Secondhand >> Time - which tell equally heartbreaking, horrifying stories of suffering. >> Reading her work inclines me to place the film in the context of the period >> of deStalinization after Kruschev's 1956 speech to the 20th Congress of the >> CPSU, which gave the signal that it was permissible to begin to talk freely >> about Soviet history. It was a period of trying to build a story that could >> explain and honor, if not justify, the extreme suffering of the Soviet >> people. This film seems to me to set out to accomplish that. So does >> Alexievich's book, which is a compilation of interviews done between 1991 >> and 2012, with people who had something to say (good and bad) about the >> Soviet regime and the experience of its dissolution. She got the 2015 Nobel >> Prize for this book. And I sense that Andy, or someone, is anticipating >> that the US is going to have to produce some works of scholarship or art, >> or both, that attempt to explain what is happening now here in the US -- >> for example, this afternoon, under President Trump. >> >> Helena Worthen >> helenaworthen@gmail.com >> Vietnam blog: helenaworthen.wordpress.com >> >> On Jan 19, 2017, at 4:00 PM, Christopher Schuck wrote: >> >> For some reason I couldn't see the subtitles showing up in Fate of a Man >>> the first time, so I started to watch it dubbed in English instead. But >>> the >>> mannered Hollywood accents definitely were not exactly helping to convey >>> the "real Russian soul" Robbins talks about! It felt like I was being >>> asked >>> to imagine Cary Grant inhabiting Andrei's perezhivanie-ing body. So, I >>> started over with the subtitled version. >>> >>> Here are some quick initial reflections: wonderful movie, and in Andrei >>> one >>> of the more memorable characters I have seen. But I also found myself >>> thinking how big a difference there is between watching a film on my >>> 12-inch laptop with headphones (my only option at the moment), and >>> sitting >>> back and immersing yourself in a darkened theater or at least on a >>> widescreen TV without any other distractions, allowing ourselves to "fall >>> into this space" by virtue of our very awareness of the illusion >>> generated >>> by the frame, as Beth and Monica put it. This difference becomes even >>> bigger if the screen you're viewing it on also enables you to quickly >>> check >>> email from time to time during the movie, as many people do these days. >>> If >>> we are to consider the film experience as a model (analogy?) for >>> perezhivanie or even a certain kind of simulation of it, this effect that >>> occurs when we lose ourselves in a film would be undermined by an >>> especially small frame or poor viewing conditions. At what point does >>> "the >>> knowledge that the movement we experience is just an illusion" (p. 2 in >>> their article) undermine the perezhivanie-like quality of film as opposed >>> to forming an integral part of it? And, might the way distraction >>> functions >>> to undermine perezhivanie in the context of film in any way mirror how we >>> "distract" ourselves in the course of living lives from conscious >>> engagement with the perezhivanie we are otherwise undergoing? Is viewing >>> a >>> film on a 12-inch screen while checking email and calling it an >>> "experience" in any way analogous to the self-deceptions and escapes we >>> engage in during the course of either experience-as-struggle or >>> experience-as-contemplation? I did not check email while watching Fate >>> of a >>> Man, by the way. Just in case you're wondering. >>> >>> As for the film itself: I was struck by the incidental way in which the >>> earlier loss of his childhood family is introduced and acknowledged at >>> the >>> very outset, and how this contrasts with the dramatic ongoing >>> perezhivanie >>> that ensues going forward: it is as if this early loss is "taken for >>> granted" as also part of the Russian experience. We are not privy to any >>> perezhivanie he might have presumably undergone before that point; it is >>> simply not "within the frame." At several points, I was reminded of >>> Satyajit's World of Apu (last movie in his trilogy), where there was >>> also a >>> set of early losses and a relationship formed with a "son." Have any of >>> you >>> seen it? I think it would also be a good example of perezhivanie. >>> >>> I would not want to overemphasize the use of literary motifs, since >>> Bondarchuk was presumably not making any references to the concept of >>> perezhivanie as such. But there were several devices that evoked Beth and >>> Monica's passage from To The Lighthouse ("Time stand still here"), and >>> their metaphor of a life (or more specifically, a perezhivanie within a >>> life) spiraling back over itself to bring two disparate moments into >>> juxtaposition in a way such that "your life becomes three-dimensional >>> again" (p. 2). One occurs in the various scenes when Andrei gazes up at >>> the >>> sky in reverie and all we see are clouds, or the scene where he lies in >>> the >>> grass after his first escape and the camera pans back as it becomes very >>> quiet, leaving nothing but him swallowed up in the vastness of nature. >>> There is a certain timeless quality to these scenes, a sense that he is >>> momentarily transcending the linear temporal flow of his life as he >>> either >>> stands outside it and "stands still" in it. It could be a thousand years >>> passing by in those clouds, or just the 17 years of his second phase; it >>> suddenly doesn't matter. Another thing I noticed was the use of the two >>> musical themes: the love song the accordionist plays for him and Irina, >>> and >>> the festive music incongruously piped in at the concentration camp during >>> that amazing scene around Part 1, minute 45 where the prisoners are being >>> marched in and the crematorium is going full blast down the road. At some >>> point (I couldn't relocate it) Andrei has a flashback where he revisits >>> the >>> love song and his memories of Irina; then at minute 20 in Part 2, while >>> processing his family's death after coming home from the war, he finds >>> himself hearing the concentration camp song on the record player and is >>> suddenly transported back to that traumatic experience. Yet he does not >>> smash the record right away; he stares at it for a minute, almost as if >>> he >>> is resituating these two moments in relation to each other. >>> >>> Perhaps I am overanalyzing, but I found both these motifs to speak to >>> Beth >>> and Monica's examples in the way they bring two moments back into contact >>> with each other. >>> >>> Finally, Mike and Andy's discussion in the Misha thread about the >>> watching >>> of a film functioning as perezhivanie for those viewers for whom it >>> reflects and repeats their own experience, raises a question about the >>> difference between extended perezhivanie and the personal re-enactment of >>> one's perezhivanie within a much smaller time scale (the two or three >>> hours >>> spent watching the movie). I hope at some point we could delve more into >>> this issue of time frame and time scale in various forms of perezhivanie. >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 8:39 PM, Andy Blunden wrote: >>> >>> Thank you Marc! It was the third "plane" which was my intention in >>>> providing "Fate of a Man" for discussion. You picked out what were for >>>> me >>>> also the main (but by no means the only) instances of perezhivanija in >>>> this >>>> movie. >>>> >>>> It seems to me that Sokolov (the author) offers one perezhivanie in >>>> particular as the main theme of the movie. At the beginning of the >>>> movie, >>>> the man and boy walk up the path to the camera and at the end of the >>>> movie >>>> they walk off together again. So this is the central theme. As you say, >>>> when Sokolov's family has all been killed, even his talented war-hero >>>> son >>>> who was going to be a famous mathematician, his life has become >>>> meaningless. I really liked your reflections of Sokolov's reflections >>>> too. >>>> He sees the young orphan boy who, he discovers, has no family and >>>> doesn't >>>> even know what town he comes from, but is aimlessly living on pieces of >>>> rubbish. He sees that the two of them are in the same situation. So >>>> after >>>> some time mulling this over a they sit together in the truck, he lies to >>>> the boy and tells him that he is the boy's father, and they embrace. But >>>> the boy questions this and he reasserts his claim and the boy accepts >>>> this. >>>> The man is able to define a new meaning for his life; he has done this >>>> autonomously without the help of a therapist, but he still needs >>>> another, >>>> the boy, to embody that meaning. But he knows it is his own invention. >>>> The >>>> boy on the other hand has to be made to believe it is true; he is not >>>> sufficiently mature to manufacture this meaning himself, but as a child >>>> he >>>> can be guided by an adult. As you say, Marc, it is very significant when >>>> Sokolov tells us how he is now, again, worried about his own death. >>>> What if >>>> I died in my sleep? that would be a shock for my son! >>>> >>>> For me, this reflection causes me to look back on the man's whole >>>> struggle >>>> during the war: in the first phase he does not differentiate between his >>>> life as a father and husband and his life as a Soviet citizen - war is >>>> his >>>> duty and he is confident, as is everyone else, of victory. His bravery >>>> in >>>> driving his truck to the front line under fire reflects the fact that he >>>> has never imagined his own death. Then he finds himself prostrate >>>> before 2 >>>> Nazi soldiers who we assume are going among the wounded shooting anyone >>>> who >>>> has survived. But surprisingly, he is allowed to live, but is to be >>>> used as >>>> a slave. Sokolov has been confronted by his own mortality for the first >>>> time and he chooses life, but accepts slavery (Sartre and Hegel both >>>> thematize this moment in their philosophy). In this second phase of >>>> Sokolov's life he is a survivor. Everything hinges on surviving and >>>> returning to his wife and family. As you point out, Marc, his later >>>> reflections on this are particularly poignant, when he discovers the >>>> futility of this hope. Eventually, the life of forced labour becomes >>>> unbearable. He cries out: "Why are we forced to dig 3 cubic metres when >>>> 1 >>>> cubic meter is enough for a grave!" Sokolov has accepted and embraced >>>> death >>>> after all. (Transition to the third phase.) To his German masters this >>>> is >>>> an unendurable act of defiance. As David points out, there are flaws in >>>> the >>>> scene which follows, but ... he confronts his own death defiantly, >>>> stares >>>> it in the eye, spits on it, and his life again gains meaning as a "brave >>>> Soviet soldier" unafraid of death even in such an impossible moment. Not >>>> only does he survive, but takes the Nazi Colonel prisoner and hands the >>>> war >>>> plans over to the Red Army. Now, when he is offered the chance to >>>> return to >>>> his wife as a war hero he declines and asks to be sent back to the >>>> front. >>>> His life has adopted this new meaning which casts his life as a father >>>> into >>>> the shade. He no longer fears death. But he is persuaded to take time >>>> off >>>> and learns of the death of his family. As Marc relates, the continued >>>> survival of his son, who is now also a war hero, provides continued >>>> meaning >>>> and integrates the two themes in his life. This takes work, as Marc >>>> points >>>> out, and he has the assistance of an older man, in achieving this >>>> redefinition of his life. But tragically, with the death of his son >>>> (and NB >>>> the end of the war, albeit in victory) his life is again without >>>> meaning. >>>> Fourth phase. He has survived, but has no purpose. By becoming a father >>>> again (Fifth phase), he regains the fear of death and meaning in his >>>> life. >>>> It is real work, and we witness this psychological turmoil as he copes >>>> with >>>> the idea that this scruffy orphan boy could be a son to him, and >>>> eventually >>>> he manages it. >>>> >>>> The transition between each phase is a critical period during which >>>> Sokolov's personality is transformed. Note also, that there is a >>>> premonition of this perezhivanie in Sokolov's earlier life: his family >>>> is >>>> wiped out in the Civil War and the famine of 1922, then he meets his >>>> wife-to-be, also raised in an orphanage, and they together create a life >>>> and have 17 happy years before the Nazi invasion intrudes. So from the >>>> beginning of the movie we are introduced to the main theme. >>>> >>>> These are the main moments in the movie, which caused me to select it >>>> for >>>> discussion rather than any other movie. Also, there is no doubt that in >>>> producing this movie in 1958 the Soviet government was engaged with its >>>> people, in a process of collective perezhivanie and by reflecting on the >>>> collective perezhivanie during the period of the war, before and after, >>>> they aim to assist the people in collectively assigning meaning to this >>>> terrible suffering and like the man and his "son" walking again into the >>>> future. As a propaganda movie, of course, it is open to much criticism, >>>> but >>>> that is hardly the point. I appreciate Marc's analysis in terms of the >>>> other concepts he has introduced. I wouldn't mind a recap on these. In >>>> terms of Vasilyuk's concepts, Sokolov's life-world is *simple and >>>> difficult*. The boy's life world is *simple and easy*. >>>> >>>> Can we continue to discuss "Fate of a Man", while I open another movie >>>> for >>>> analysis? I think there are at least 10 subscribers to this list who >>>> have >>>> published in learned journals on the topic of perezhivanie in childhood. >>>> Perhaps one of you would like to reflect on the boy's perezhivanija? >>>> >>>> Andy >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> Andy Blunden >>>> http://home.mira.net/~andy >>>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making >>>> On 18/01/2017 5:14 AM, Marc Clar? wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi, all, >>>>> >>>>> and thank you, Andy, for sharing this amazing film, which I didn't >>>>> know. I >>>>> think it will be very useful to share and discuss our respective views >>>>> on >>>>> perezhivanie. >>>>> >>>>> In my view, the film could be analyzed in terms of perezhivanie in >>>>> three >>>>> different planes. First, we could consider the person who watches the >>>>> film, >>>>> and we could study how the meaning she forms for the film restructures >>>>> her >>>>> relationship with aspects of her real life -such as, for example, her >>>>> own >>>>> death or the death of a beloved one, etc. (perhaps this is a little bit >>>>> like what Beth and Monica, or Veresov and Fleer, do with their study of >>>>> playworlds?). In this plane, which would be perhaps the most >>>>> naturalistic >>>>> one, the film could be studied as an human-made cultural artifact which >>>>> restuctures psychological functions; here, the meaning formed for the >>>>> film >>>>> by who watches it and uses it as mediator in her relation to her real >>>>> life >>>>> would be an m-perezhivanie. >>>>> >>>>> In a second plane, we could proceed as if the film was real life, and >>>>> we >>>>> could consider Sokolov telling his story to the man he meets by the >>>>> river >>>>> (a little bit like Carla telling her story to me). In this plane, >>>>> Sokolov's >>>>> narrative (i.e., what is showed to us as narrated flashback) could be >>>>> considered as a cultural artifact that Sokolov uses to relate to all >>>>> what >>>>> happened to him. At this plane, the meaning of this narrative would be >>>>> the >>>>> m-perezhivanie that, in that moment, mediates the relationship between >>>>> Sokolov and the war events he experienced years ago (but these events >>>>> are >>>>> still very present to him, so although relating to past events, there >>>>> is >>>>> here a Sokolov's activity [towards the past war events] which is in >>>>> present >>>>> -this echoes Christopher when, within our conversations, said: ?Part of >>>>> this might also be a question of what it means to describe and >>>>> represent >>>>> one's own perezhivanie figuratively/narratively (whether to others, or >>>>> to >>>>> oneself), as opposed to living that perezhivanie. Especially if the >>>>> attempt >>>>> to capture/represent one's own perezhivanie is, perhaps, also central >>>>> to >>>>> the living of it?? >>>>> >>>>> In a third plane, we could proceed as if Sokolov's narration was not a >>>>> retrospective narration, but the on-time sequence of events with >>>>> on-time >>>>> Sokolov's explanation of these events (in the moments in which the >>>>> narrator >>>>> voice is assumed within the flashback). In this plane, there are >>>>> several >>>>> interesting perezhivanie phenomena. Clearly, there is a Sokolov's >>>>> activity >>>>> of experiencing-as-struggle, which initiates when he realizes that all >>>>> his >>>>> family, except one son, had been killed 2 years ago. At this moment, >>>>> his >>>>> life becomes meaningless; the meaning (m-perezhivanie) he uses to >>>>> relate >>>>> to >>>>> all his life (including the past) at this moment is expressed in his >>>>> conversation with his oncle: ?it's got to be that this life of mine is >>>>> nothing but a nightmare!?. In this moment, Sokolov's past in the >>>>> prision >>>>> camp becomes also meaningless: then, his link to life (the >>>>> m-perezhivanie >>>>> that made being alive meaningful to him) was meeting his family; but at >>>>> that time his family was already dead, so when he discovers it, he >>>>> realizes >>>>> that this m-perezhivanie (the idea of meeting his family) was linking >>>>> him >>>>> to death, not to life, so all his efforts to surviving become >>>>> meaningless: >>>>> ?Every night, when I was a prisioner, I talked with them. Now it turns >>>>> out >>>>> that for two years I was talking with the dead??. In this conversation, >>>>> however, his oncle offers him an alternative m-perezhivanie to relate >>>>> to >>>>> his life: he still has a son, so the m-perehivanie of meeting his >>>>> family >>>>> can still turns Sokolov's life meaningful: ?you've got to go on living. >>>>> You >>>>> have to find Anatoly. When the war is over, your son will get married, >>>>> you >>>>> will live with them. You will take up your carpentry again, play with >>>>> your >>>>> grandkids?. It takes some time to Sokolov to enter into this >>>>> m-perezhivanie, but he does it and his life becomes meaningful again: >>>>> ?and >>>>> then, unexpectedly, I've got a gleam of sunlight?. But, then, Anatoly >>>>> also >>>>> dies. How to keep living? Here, Sokolov holds the m-perezhivanie that >>>>> linked him to life until that moment, and therefore, he needs a son; >>>>> pretending being the father of Vanya turns his life meaningful again. >>>>> >>>>> Another interesting thing, still at that level, is how Sokolov's >>>>> relation >>>>> with his own immediate death changes along the different occasions in >>>>> which >>>>> he faces it. I thing here there are examples of >>>>> experiencing-as-contemplation -in my view, this is not >>>>> experiencing-as-struggle because the situation of impossibility (the >>>>> immediate death) is removed existentially (Sokolov's life is given >>>>> back to >>>>> him), so that there is not a permanent situation of impossibility >>>>> which is >>>>> initially meaningless and is turned into meaningful. In each occasion >>>>> in >>>>> which Sokolov is faced with his immediate death, the m-perezhivanie >>>>> that >>>>> mediates this relationship is different. When he is captured, his >>>>> m-perezhivanie is expressed as: ?here's my death coming after me?. >>>>> When he >>>>> is conducted to meet the nazi official, the m-perezhivanie is expressed >>>>> as: >>>>> ?the end of your misery?, ?to my death and my release of this torment, >>>>> I >>>>> will drink?. In the first, the death is running after Sokolov; in the >>>>> second, it is Sokolov happily going to meet death. Later, at the end of >>>>> the >>>>> film, he faces his immediate death again, and the m-perezhivanie is >>>>> expressed as: ?I'm really worried that I might die in my sleep, and >>>>> that >>>>> would frighten my little son?. >>>>> >>>>> Well, just some thoughts after watching this wonderful film. >>>>> >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> >>>>> Marc. >>>>> >>>>> 2017-01-15 0:06 GMT+01:00 Christopher Schuck >>>> >: >>>>> >>>>> Yes, definitely that article! And specifically, when I used "pivoting" >>>>> I >>>>> >>>>>> couldn't help but think of Beth's earlier example about how a child >>>>>> will >>>>>> use a stick as a pivot for a horse. Perhaps a somewhat different >>>>>> application but related, no? >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 4:06 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < >>>>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Chris, all, >>>>>> >>>>>>> your post is totally relevant to Beth's and Monica's article in the >>>>>>> special issue. They write about film and perezhivanie (quoting >>>>>>> Sobchack) >>>>>>> the following: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The reason that film allows us to glimpse the future is that there >>>>>>> is a >>>>>>> connection between filmic time and ?real? time: ?The images of a film >>>>>>> >>>>>>> exist >>>>>> >>>>>> in the world as a temporal flow, within finitude and situation. >>>>>>> Indeed, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> the >>>>>> >>>>>> fascination of the film is that it does not transcend our >>>>>>> >>>>>>> lived-experience >>>>>> >>>>>> of temporality, but rather that it seems to partake of it, to share >>>>>>> it? >>>>>>> (1992, p. 60). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And later >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Specifically, the way that the flow of time becomes >>>>>>> multidirectional is >>>>>>> that ?rehearsals make it necessary to think of the future in such a >>>>>>> way >>>>>>> >>>>>>> as >>>>>> >>>>>> to create a past? (1985, p. 39). As Schechner ex-plains: ?In a very >>>>>>> real >>>>>>> way the future ? the project coming into existence through the >>>>>>> process >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> rehearsal ? determines the past: what will be kept from earlier >>>>>>> >>>>>>> rehearsals >>>>>> >>>>>> or from the ?source ma-terials? (1985, p. 39)." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Alfredo >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>>>> du> >>>>>>> on behalf of Christopher Schuck >>>>>>> Sent: 14 January 2017 21:43 >>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fate of a Man >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But that's both the limitation and strength of art or fictional >>>>>>> narrative >>>>>>> as opposed to real life, isn't it? That art focuses our attention and >>>>>>> highlights certain features in a way that is idealized and >>>>>>> artificially >>>>>>> "designed" to convey something more clearly and purely (but less >>>>>>> organically and authentically) than it would be conveyed in the >>>>>>> course >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> living it, or observing someone else living it? One way to get around >>>>>>> >>>>>>> this >>>>>> >>>>>> would be, as David says, to analyze the film in terms of clues as to >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> stages of emergence. But maybe another way to use the film would be >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> >>>>>>> view >>>>>> >>>>>> it not so much as a complete, self-sufficient "example" of >>>>>>> perezhivanie, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> as >>>>>> >>>>>> a *tool *for pivoting back and forth between the concept of >>>>>>> perezhivanie >>>>>>> >>>>>>> as >>>>>> >>>>>> imaginatively constructed (through fiction), and the concept of >>>>>>> perezhivanie as imaginatively constructed (through our real living >>>>>>> experience and observation of it). So, it would be the *pivoting* >>>>>>> between >>>>>>> these two manifestations of the concept (designed vs. evolved, as >>>>>>> David >>>>>>> >>>>>>> put >>>>>> >>>>>> it) that reveals new insights about perezhivanie, rather than >>>>>>> >>>>>>> understanding >>>>>> >>>>>> the concept from the film per se. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 3:08 PM, David Kellogg >>>>>> > >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think there's a good reason why Andy started a new thread on this: >>>>>>> he's a >>>>>>> >>>>>>> very tidy thinker (quite unlike yours truly) and he knows that one >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> reason >>>>>>> why xmca threads are seldom cumulative is that they digress to >>>>>>> related >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> problems without solving the immmediate ones. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes, of course, a film allows us to consider an example of >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "perezhivanie", >>>>>>> >>>>>>> but it is a designed perezhivanie rather than an evolved one; it >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> doesn't >>>>>>> explicitly display the various stages of emergence required for a >>>>>>> genetic >>>>>>> analysis, unless we analyze it not as a complete and finished work of >>>>>>> art >>>>>>> but instead for clues as to the stages of its creation (the way that, >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> example, "Quietly Flows the Don" was analyzed to determine its >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> authenticity). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I remember that In the original short story, the schnapps drinking >>>>>>>> scene seemed like pure sleight of hand: an artistically gratuitous >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> example >>>>>>> >>>>>>> of what eventually gave Soviet social realism such a bad name. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> David Kellogg >>>>>>>> Macquarie University >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 10:04 PM, Carol Macdonald < >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> carolmacdon@gmail.com >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Fellow XMCa-ers >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I have watched it through now, thank you Andy, but right now only >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> empirical >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> psychological categories come to mind. I will watch it again and in >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> meanwhile let my fellows with more recent experience of >>>>>>>> /perezhivanie/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> take >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> the discussion further. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It is a kind of timeless story, and modern film techniques would >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> perhaps >>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> more explicit. At the least I would say it has for me a Russian >>>>>>>>> understanding of suffering, perhaps because of their unique >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> experience >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> >>>>>>> it. But having said that, WWII must have generated other similar >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> experiences, apart from the first part about Andrei's family dying >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> famine. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Carol >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 14 January 2017 at 02:15, Andy Blunden >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I watched it in two parts with subtitles: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16w7fg_destiny-of-a-man- >>>>>>>>>> 1959-pt-1_creation >>>>>>>>>> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16wat4_destiny-of-a-man- >>>>>>>>>> 1959-pt-2_creation >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Andy >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>>>>>> Andy Blunden >>>>>>>>>> http://home.mira.net/~andy >>>>>>>>>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> decision-making >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 14/01/2017 2:35 AM, Beth Ferholt wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thank you for taking us to a shared example. I think that >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> having a >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Carol A Macdonald Ph.D (Edin) >>>>>>>>> Cultural Historical Activity Theory >>>>>>>>> Honorary Research Fellow: Department of Linguistics, Unisa >>>>>>>>> alternative email address: tmacdoca@unisa.ac.za >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >> >> > -- Beth Ferholt Assistant Professor Department of Early Childhood and Art Education Brooklyn College, City University of New York 2900 Bedford Avenue Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu Phone: (718) 951-5205 Fax: (718) 951-4816 From schuckcschuck@gmail.com Sun Feb 5 20:02:50 2017 From: schuckcschuck@gmail.com (Christopher Schuck) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 23:02:50 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Fate of a Man In-Reply-To: References: <048522a2-cca0-3e56-cae2-f2142b9fbd5a@mira.net> <1484427999407.2877@iped.uio.no> <2270f5e7-7d82-5150-89a3-808a4e20b89b@mira.net> <9B8D2964-0926-4976-91F2-CDD51E50A6F5@gmail.com> Message-ID: Beth, I really like your point at the beginning about how interruptions can help us understand perezhivanie. Perhaps you were only referring to specific kinds of interruptions (politics and children), but I am also reminded of the way that many stories and films are periodically "interrupted," as we return to the outer frame of the narrator and his listener who briefly pause to reflect on the story-in-progress before plunging back in. Notably, in Fate of a Man this does *not* happen; the outer narrative only bookends the main story at beginning and end. This was a very rich post, and I suspect that everyone will be picking it apart for quite some time. But two very quick thoughts. You write: "I think perezhivanie is about truth, somehow, although I am not sure how." Later: "we won't understand this process until we see children as full people. And simultaneously as children." (Unlike, for instance, in Fate of a Man.) Perhaps the relevance of truth to perezhivanie has something to do with the fact that people cannot genuinely co-create something in the sense of playmakers if one is deceiving the other? If the adult deliberately misleads the child for his own welfare (as in Life Is Beautiful), however ethical, there is a hierarchical relationship implied which would appear to be at odds with the spirit of shared perezhivanie. Second, re. Manchester By the Sea: I wonder if an alternate reading might be that perezhivanie *is* possible, but it has only barely started by the movie's end. I see any potential perezhivanie occurring not with the ex-wife, but with the teenager. Might the intimate way that they bicker and argue, and develop a distinctive rapport, have anything to do with this? The teenager seems to be teaching Casey Affleck something no one else can tell him....I'm not sure. Chris On Sunday, February 5, 2017, Beth Ferholt > wrote: > Thanks for the calling out to Monica and me, Mike and Andy -- I had to stop > checking XMCA for a couple of weeks so I did not see the discussion or your > notes to me in the chain, until today. One of the the strengths of XMCA is > that it creates a conversation that can include people who can not always > respond that very day, or even week, due to various forms of interruption! > Often these "interruptions" are children or political events, which can > help us to understand perezhivanie. > > As well as spending time at JFK, recently, many of us here in New York have > been attending local protests to keep our neighborhoods feeling safe for > everyone. I live in a neighborhood in Brooklyn that includes several > Muslim communities and several Jewish communities (as well as a few Russian > and Polish communities), and at the local protests these past few weeks > some people have had photographs of their family members who were killed by > the Nazis attached to the back of their "never again" signs. Also we all, > Muslim, Jewish, etc. families, have been often bringing our children to > the protests. > > So I have been thinking a lot about children and hope, during the past few > weeks. It is within this frame that I saw this film. I think the film was > expecting us to see the child as only benefitting from the main character's > lying, saying that he was the child's father, and of course the child did > benefit, but I think that perezhivanie is about truth, somehow, although I > am not sure how. > > My second thought is that Manchester by the Sea must have been referencing > this film, with its return-to-the-space-where-the-house-was scene, and > also > with the choice to replace the lost self (as father) / family or no. I > think it might help this conversation if we all saw both films, actually. > Two thoughts on this methods suggestion for our conversation, before I > return to the topic itself. > > 1) It is odd how closely the two films are related, as I did not know that > the two films were related when I told Chris to see Manchester by the Sea > in relation to thinking about perezhivanie. I told Chris when I saw him in > person, and I think that discussions about perezhivanie are often different > in person. We learned at LCHC in the 2004/5 playworld projects that these > in person discussions about perezhivanie have a pronounced proleptic > structure, mirroring the topic of study, such that the conclusion of the > discussion appears at the start: It feels like magic is happening. (I > think this has something to do with how good teachers see the things in > their classroom that are useful or no before they happen or "behind their > heads" ... when you are very present you have this "sixth sense," which is > really an experience of time moving in two directions at once ... being > very present can often require a lot of in person time and being with > children speeds up the process.) > > 2) It is a strength that the XMCA conversations can continue through all of > our different schedules. It is a negative that they are not in person, and > seeing films together can really help. This is where we went on the > perezhivanie facebook page when it was briefly in English and in Russian -- > with a film, and it was very helpful. (Of course I am thinking of this > while considering the changing role and form of LCHC and Mike's > participation in LCHC and XMCA. I am thinking of the mistakes that are > communication. A story about this that I thought of recently, which shows > this point well, and seems worth retelling BECAUSE when studying > perezhivanie the form is often (always??) the study of the content: As a > newish graduate student Mike once said "thank you" to me when I made a > comment in the afternoon about an AM conversation that day. Mike's "thank > you" encouraged me to pay extra attention to this comment/thought of mine, > which later became important in our analysis of a difficult-to-decipher > playworld event. I was thinking of this event as I walked and talked with > a doctoral student of my own -- I seem to have a heavily spacial memory > process and my student and I were walking through a doorway -- and I > suddenly realized that Mike could have been thanking me for holding the > door for him at this time in the past when his feedback was so important to > me ... maybe he did not hear my comment, but just thanked me for holding > the door ... in fact it now appears to me that this was probably the case!) > > The interesting thing to me about the above 2 points is the framing. It IS > the "()" within the "()" that interests me. Maybe Framing is all > communication or all thought or consciousness ... Bateson? ... but I think > we need to tackle framing head on when discussing perezhivanie. The two > films are very different in regards to framing, I think this is why they > are most interesting to think about together, but first I have two > citations for thinking about time that I use frequently in my writing on > perezhivanie. > > These seem worth repeating here, as this thinking about time in space/time > seems to me to be thinking about framing ... the "()" makes us double back > in time as we read -- : > > (As to Performance, Alfredo copied the Schechner quote above.) > > Dewey's relation of the notion of object to prolepsis (on XMCA): > Mike (2007) used the term ?temporally double sided? to describe this > phenomenon of growing back and towards the future and the past > simultaneously. > > What I am (still) thinking about, now, most often: > It is the juxtaposition of temporal double sidedness with stages that > creates perezhivanie. What Schechner argues is that this juxtaposition > provides the rhythm that allows us to raise ourselves up and hover, > suspended momentarily in a state of being simultaneously ourselves and not > ourselves: our past and future selves (someone else). > > So my first point is about framing and my second is about children. The > Fate Of Man is all about the frames / "()". The stories are nested within > eachother, repeating themselves, maybe even sort of like a fractal, or > anyhow a spiral? I have some congenital prosopagnosia, getting worse as I > age and definitely bad with a film like this. I kept thinking we were back > at the ferry as the form of the conversation and context images repeated > themselves, as I could not recognize the face of the character who was the > audience for our hero's story! Manchester by the Sea, on the other hand, > had no frames. We just jumped right in and rode it through. I only saw > Manchester once but do others think this is true? relevant? > > I think that the question of children's position in relation to adult > perezhivanie is central in both of these films. The children in both of > these films appear to want the main characters to try again at being > fathers. This is a critique of films about children -- I can not think of > the name of the person who made this critique, but I can find it for anyone > if needed -- : We adults often make films not about children but about our > own childhoods. We make films about children who are no longer with us. > But is this really best for the films, as films are usually best when they > are somehow in dialogue with their topic, this is a characteristic of the > medium, no? > > If you do not have some pretense, some playing again, you can not have > perezhivanie. But I think that Fate of Man is not about perezhivanie, > although in a different way than Manchester by the Sea is not about > perezhivanie. In Manchester by the Sea there is no other with whom to > perezhivanie because the main character and his former wife still love each > other, or at lease he still loves her and she returns enough of the love to > keep him loving her, and neither of them can pull the other up because they > both hit bottom together and in the same story. In Fate of Man there is is > no chance for perezhivanie because the other needs to be involved in some > honest way, or there is no dialogue. > > In Fate of Man the hero seems to me to be playing out his memory in the > real world. A child is not an other with whom one can ever perezhivanie. > This is not perezhivanie as there is no real world as a player, and this is > why our hero's heart will fail him. He did not reach bottom and then start > to pull himself up by connecting with another with great bravery. Instead, > as he says himself, he just snapped -- he is now living in a dream. > > As Larry put it, above in this chain: "In other words, navigating through > the suffering and existential emptiness is not a hero?s journey." And this > point is relevant, again, to our method for studying perezhivanie. I don't > think we can manage this one on our own (XMCA), even as a group that allows > for conversations over extended time periods. > > If form and content are related in this process, I'd say that we won't > understand this process until we see children as full people. And > simultaneously as children. Children have something to tell us about this > process that no one else can tell us, and they are not going to tell us > this in a way that those of us who are researchers/scholars can listen, > without the bridge of the teacher voices. How to include these voices in > our research is key. And the answer has something to do with art, as well > as with time and space. > > I am going to send this as it is long enough already, and then catch up > with the related chains after I do ... And I won't say more now, but I > agree with all the people who thought this was a great pick to start the > discussion. Many levels to discuss and I also found many aspects of the > film related to perezhivanie in many ways! Beth > > On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 11:51 PM, Andy Blunden wrote: > > > How about a documentary movie about the first Trump voter who dies as a > > result of repeal of Obama Care? That would be a perezhivanie within a > > perezhivanie! > > > > Andy > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Andy Blunden > > http://home.mira.net/~andy > > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making > > On 21/01/2017 12:03 PM, Helena Worthen wrote: > > > >> I am late to this discussion, but I have been paying attention. I was > >> reluctant to expose myself to the emotional challenges of the film. I > knew > >> that between the majestic music, the stunning black and white images, > the > >> beautiful human faces and bodies (and some very ugly ones), and the > twists > >> of the story, I was going to be deeply moved. However, I have been > reading > >> two books by Svetlana Alexievich -- Voices from Chernobyl and Secondhand > >> Time - which tell equally heartbreaking, horrifying stories of > suffering. > >> Reading her work inclines me to place the film in the context of the > period > >> of deStalinization after Kruschev's 1956 speech to the 20th Congress of > the > >> CPSU, which gave the signal that it was permissible to begin to talk > freely > >> about Soviet history. It was a period of trying to build a story that > could > >> explain and honor, if not justify, the extreme suffering of the Soviet > >> people. This film seems to me to set out to accomplish that. So does > >> Alexievich's book, which is a compilation of interviews done between > 1991 > >> and 2012, with people who had something to say (good and bad) about the > >> Soviet regime and the experience of its dissolution. She got the 2015 > Nobel > >> Prize for this book. And I sense that Andy, or someone, is anticipating > >> that the US is going to have to produce some works of scholarship or > art, > >> or both, that attempt to explain what is happening now here in the US -- > >> for example, this afternoon, under President Trump. > >> > >> Helena Worthen > >> helenaworthen@gmail.com > >> Vietnam blog: helenaworthen.wordpress.com > >> > >> On Jan 19, 2017, at 4:00 PM, Christopher Schuck wrote: > >> > >> For some reason I couldn't see the subtitles showing up in Fate of a Man > >>> the first time, so I started to watch it dubbed in English instead. But > >>> the > >>> mannered Hollywood accents definitely were not exactly helping to > convey > >>> the "real Russian soul" Robbins talks about! It felt like I was being > >>> asked > >>> to imagine Cary Grant inhabiting Andrei's perezhivanie-ing body. So, I > >>> started over with the subtitled version. > >>> > >>> Here are some quick initial reflections: wonderful movie, and in Andrei > >>> one > >>> of the more memorable characters I have seen. But I also found myself > >>> thinking how big a difference there is between watching a film on my > >>> 12-inch laptop with headphones (my only option at the moment), and > >>> sitting > >>> back and immersing yourself in a darkened theater or at least on a > >>> widescreen TV without any other distractions, allowing ourselves to > "fall > >>> into this space" by virtue of our very awareness of the illusion > >>> generated > >>> by the frame, as Beth and Monica put it. This difference becomes even > >>> bigger if the screen you're viewing it on also enables you to quickly > >>> check > >>> email from time to time during the movie, as many people do these days. > >>> If > >>> we are to consider the film experience as a model (analogy?) for > >>> perezhivanie or even a certain kind of simulation of it, this effect > that > >>> occurs when we lose ourselves in a film would be undermined by an > >>> especially small frame or poor viewing conditions. At what point does > >>> "the > >>> knowledge that the movement we experience is just an illusion" (p. 2 in > >>> their article) undermine the perezhivanie-like quality of film as > opposed > >>> to forming an integral part of it? And, might the way distraction > >>> functions > >>> to undermine perezhivanie in the context of film in any way mirror how > we > >>> "distract" ourselves in the course of living lives from conscious > >>> engagement with the perezhivanie we are otherwise undergoing? Is > viewing > >>> a > >>> film on a 12-inch screen while checking email and calling it an > >>> "experience" in any way analogous to the self-deceptions and escapes we > >>> engage in during the course of either experience-as-struggle or > >>> experience-as-contemplation? I did not check email while watching Fate > >>> of a > >>> Man, by the way. Just in case you're wondering. > >>> > >>> As for the film itself: I was struck by the incidental way in which the > >>> earlier loss of his childhood family is introduced and acknowledged at > >>> the > >>> very outset, and how this contrasts with the dramatic ongoing > >>> perezhivanie > >>> that ensues going forward: it is as if this early loss is "taken for > >>> granted" as also part of the Russian experience. We are not privy to > any > >>> perezhivanie he might have presumably undergone before that point; it > is > >>> simply not "within the frame." At several points, I was reminded of > >>> Satyajit's World of Apu (last movie in his trilogy), where there was > >>> also a > >>> set of early losses and a relationship formed with a "son." Have any of > >>> you > >>> seen it? I think it would also be a good example of perezhivanie. > >>> > >>> I would not want to overemphasize the use of literary motifs, since > >>> Bondarchuk was presumably not making any references to the concept of > >>> perezhivanie as such. But there were several devices that evoked Beth > and > >>> Monica's passage from To The Lighthouse ("Time stand still here"), and > >>> their metaphor of a life (or more specifically, a perezhivanie within a > >>> life) spiraling back over itself to bring two disparate moments into > >>> juxtaposition in a way such that "your life becomes three-dimensional > >>> again" (p. 2). One occurs in the various scenes when Andrei gazes up at > >>> the > >>> sky in reverie and all we see are clouds, or the scene where he lies in > >>> the > >>> grass after his first escape and the camera pans back as it becomes > very > >>> quiet, leaving nothing but him swallowed up in the vastness of nature. > >>> There is a certain timeless quality to these scenes, a sense that he is > >>> momentarily transcending the linear temporal flow of his life as he > >>> either > >>> stands outside it and "stands still" in it. It could be a thousand > years > >>> passing by in those clouds, or just the 17 years of his second phase; > it > >>> suddenly doesn't matter. Another thing I noticed was the use of the two > >>> musical themes: the love song the accordionist plays for him and Irina, > >>> and > >>> the festive music incongruously piped in at the concentration camp > during > >>> that amazing scene around Part 1, minute 45 where the prisoners are > being > >>> marched in and the crematorium is going full blast down the road. At > some > >>> point (I couldn't relocate it) Andrei has a flashback where he revisits > >>> the > >>> love song and his memories of Irina; then at minute 20 in Part 2, while > >>> processing his family's death after coming home from the war, he finds > >>> himself hearing the concentration camp song on the record player and is > >>> suddenly transported back to that traumatic experience. Yet he does not > >>> smash the record right away; he stares at it for a minute, almost as if > >>> he > >>> is resituating these two moments in relation to each other. > >>> > >>> Perhaps I am overanalyzing, but I found both these motifs to speak to > >>> Beth > >>> and Monica's examples in the way they bring two moments back into > contact > >>> with each other. > >>> > >>> Finally, Mike and Andy's discussion in the Misha thread about the > >>> watching > >>> of a film functioning as perezhivanie for those viewers for whom it > >>> reflects and repeats their own experience, raises a question about the > >>> difference between extended perezhivanie and the personal re-enactment > of > >>> one's perezhivanie within a much smaller time scale (the two or three > >>> hours > >>> spent watching the movie). I hope at some point we could delve more > into > >>> this issue of time frame and time scale in various forms of > perezhivanie. > >>> > >>> Chris > >>> > >>> > >>> On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 8:39 PM, Andy Blunden > wrote: > >>> > >>> Thank you Marc! It was the third "plane" which was my intention in > >>>> providing "Fate of a Man" for discussion. You picked out what were for > >>>> me > >>>> also the main (but by no means the only) instances of perezhivanija in > >>>> this > >>>> movie. > >>>> > >>>> It seems to me that Sokolov (the author) offers one perezhivanie in > >>>> particular as the main theme of the movie. At the beginning of the > >>>> movie, > >>>> the man and boy walk up the path to the camera and at the end of the > >>>> movie > >>>> they walk off together again. So this is the central theme. As you > say, > >>>> when Sokolov's family has all been killed, even his talented war-hero > >>>> son > >>>> who was going to be a famous mathematician, his life has become > >>>> meaningless. I really liked your reflections of Sokolov's reflections > >>>> too. > >>>> He sees the young orphan boy who, he discovers, has no family and > >>>> doesn't > >>>> even know what town he comes from, but is aimlessly living on pieces > of > >>>> rubbish. He sees that the two of them are in the same situation. So > >>>> after > >>>> some time mulling this over a they sit together in the truck, he lies > to > >>>> the boy and tells him that he is the boy's father, and they embrace. > But > >>>> the boy questions this and he reasserts his claim and the boy accepts > >>>> this. > >>>> The man is able to define a new meaning for his life; he has done this > >>>> autonomously without the help of a therapist, but he still needs > >>>> another, > >>>> the boy, to embody that meaning. But he knows it is his own invention. > >>>> The > >>>> boy on the other hand has to be made to believe it is true; he is not > >>>> sufficiently mature to manufacture this meaning himself, but as a > child > >>>> he > >>>> can be guided by an adult. As you say, Marc, it is very significant > when > >>>> Sokolov tells us how he is now, again, worried about his own death. > >>>> What if > >>>> I died in my sleep? that would be a shock for my son! > >>>> > >>>> For me, this reflection causes me to look back on the man's whole > >>>> struggle > >>>> during the war: in the first phase he does not differentiate between > his > >>>> life as a father and husband and his life as a Soviet citizen - war is > >>>> his > >>>> duty and he is confident, as is everyone else, of victory. His bravery > >>>> in > >>>> driving his truck to the front line under fire reflects the fact that > he > >>>> has never imagined his own death. Then he finds himself prostrate > >>>> before 2 > >>>> Nazi soldiers who we assume are going among the wounded shooting > anyone > >>>> who > >>>> has survived. But surprisingly, he is allowed to live, but is to be > >>>> used as > >>>> a slave. Sokolov has been confronted by his own mortality for the > first > >>>> time and he chooses life, but accepts slavery (Sartre and Hegel both > >>>> thematize this moment in their philosophy). In this second phase of > >>>> Sokolov's life he is a survivor. Everything hinges on surviving and > >>>> returning to his wife and family. As you point out, Marc, his later > >>>> reflections on this are particularly poignant, when he discovers the > >>>> futility of this hope. Eventually, the life of forced labour becomes > >>>> unbearable. He cries out: "Why are we forced to dig 3 cubic metres > when > >>>> 1 > >>>> cubic meter is enough for a grave!" Sokolov has accepted and embraced > >>>> death > >>>> after all. (Transition to the third phase.) To his German masters this > >>>> is > >>>> an unendurable act of defiance. As David points out, there are flaws > in > >>>> the > >>>> scene which follows, but ... he confronts his own death defiantly, > >>>> stares > >>>> it in the eye, spits on it, and his life again gains meaning as a > "brave > >>>> Soviet soldier" unafraid of death even in such an impossible moment. > Not > >>>> only does he survive, but takes the Nazi Colonel prisoner and hands > the > >>>> war > >>>> plans over to the Red Army. Now, when he is offered the chance to > >>>> return to > >>>> his wife as a war hero he declines and asks to be sent back to the > >>>> front. > >>>> His life has adopted this new meaning which casts his life as a father > >>>> into > >>>> the shade. He no longer fears death. But he is persuaded to take time > >>>> off > >>>> and learns of the death of his family. As Marc relates, the continued > >>>> survival of his son, who is now also a war hero, provides continued > >>>> meaning > >>>> and integrates the two themes in his life. This takes work, as Marc > >>>> points > >>>> out, and he has the assistance of an older man, in achieving this > >>>> redefinition of his life. But tragically, with the death of his son > >>>> (and NB > >>>> the end of the war, albeit in victory) his life is again without > >>>> meaning. > >>>> Fourth phase. He has survived, but has no purpose. By becoming a > father > >>>> again (Fifth phase), he regains the fear of death and meaning in his > >>>> life. > >>>> It is real work, and we witness this psychological turmoil as he copes > >>>> with > >>>> the idea that this scruffy orphan boy could be a son to him, and > >>>> eventually > >>>> he manages it. > >>>> > >>>> The transition between each phase is a critical period during which > >>>> Sokolov's personality is transformed. Note also, that there is a > >>>> premonition of this perezhivanie in Sokolov's earlier life: his family > >>>> is > >>>> wiped out in the Civil War and the famine of 1922, then he meets his > >>>> wife-to-be, also raised in an orphanage, and they together create a > life > >>>> and have 17 happy years before the Nazi invasion intrudes. So from the > >>>> beginning of the movie we are introduced to the main theme. > >>>> > >>>> These are the main moments in the movie, which caused me to select it > >>>> for > >>>> discussion rather than any other movie. Also, there is no doubt that > in > >>>> producing this movie in 1958 the Soviet government was engaged with > its > >>>> people, in a process of collective perezhivanie and by reflecting on > the > >>>> collective perezhivanie during the period of the war, before and > after, > >>>> they aim to assist the people in collectively assigning meaning to > this > >>>> terrible suffering and like the man and his "son" walking again into > the > >>>> future. As a propaganda movie, of course, it is open to much > criticism, > >>>> but > >>>> that is hardly the point. I appreciate Marc's analysis in terms of the > >>>> other concepts he has introduced. I wouldn't mind a recap on these. In > >>>> terms of Vasilyuk's concepts, Sokolov's life-world is *simple and > >>>> difficult*. The boy's life world is *simple and easy*. > >>>> > >>>> Can we continue to discuss "Fate of a Man", while I open another movie > >>>> for > >>>> analysis? I think there are at least 10 subscribers to this list who > >>>> have > >>>> published in learned journals on the topic of perezhivanie in > childhood. > >>>> Perhaps one of you would like to reflect on the boy's perezhivanija? > >>>> > >>>> Andy > >>>> > >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ > >>>> Andy Blunden > >>>> http://home.mira.net/~andy > >>>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making > >>>> On 18/01/2017 5:14 AM, Marc Clar? wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Hi, all, > >>>>> > >>>>> and thank you, Andy, for sharing this amazing film, which I didn't > >>>>> know. I > >>>>> think it will be very useful to share and discuss our respective > views > >>>>> on > >>>>> perezhivanie. > >>>>> > >>>>> In my view, the film could be analyzed in terms of perezhivanie in > >>>>> three > >>>>> different planes. First, we could consider the person who watches the > >>>>> film, > >>>>> and we could study how the meaning she forms for the film > restructures > >>>>> her > >>>>> relationship with aspects of her real life -such as, for example, her > >>>>> own > >>>>> death or the death of a beloved one, etc. (perhaps this is a little > bit > >>>>> like what Beth and Monica, or Veresov and Fleer, do with their study > of > >>>>> playworlds?). In this plane, which would be perhaps the most > >>>>> naturalistic > >>>>> one, the film could be studied as an human-made cultural artifact > which > >>>>> restuctures psychological functions; here, the meaning formed for the > >>>>> film > >>>>> by who watches it and uses it as mediator in her relation to her real > >>>>> life > >>>>> would be an m-perezhivanie. > >>>>> > >>>>> In a second plane, we could proceed as if the film was real life, and > >>>>> we > >>>>> could consider Sokolov telling his story to the man he meets by the > >>>>> river > >>>>> (a little bit like Carla telling her story to me). In this plane, > >>>>> Sokolov's > >>>>> narrative (i.e., what is showed to us as narrated flashback) could be > >>>>> considered as a cultural artifact that Sokolov uses to relate to all > >>>>> what > >>>>> happened to him. At this plane, the meaning of this narrative would > be > >>>>> the > >>>>> m-perezhivanie that, in that moment, mediates the relationship > between > >>>>> Sokolov and the war events he experienced years ago (but these events > >>>>> are > >>>>> still very present to him, so although relating to past events, there > >>>>> is > >>>>> here a Sokolov's activity [towards the past war events] which is in > >>>>> present > >>>>> -this echoes Christopher when, within our conversations, said: ?Part > of > >>>>> this might also be a question of what it means to describe and > >>>>> represent > >>>>> one's own perezhivanie figuratively/narratively (whether to others, > or > >>>>> to > >>>>> oneself), as opposed to living that perezhivanie. Especially if the > >>>>> attempt > >>>>> to capture/represent one's own perezhivanie is, perhaps, also central > >>>>> to > >>>>> the living of it?? > >>>>> > >>>>> In a third plane, we could proceed as if Sokolov's narration was not > a > >>>>> retrospective narration, but the on-time sequence of events with > >>>>> on-time > >>>>> Sokolov's explanation of these events (in the moments in which the > >>>>> narrator > >>>>> voice is assumed within the flashback). In this plane, there are > >>>>> several > >>>>> interesting perezhivanie phenomena. Clearly, there is a Sokolov's > >>>>> activity > >>>>> of experiencing-as-struggle, which initiates when he realizes that > all > >>>>> his > >>>>> family, except one son, had been killed 2 years ago. At this moment, > >>>>> his > >>>>> life becomes meaningless; the meaning (m-perezhivanie) he uses to > >>>>> relate > >>>>> to > >>>>> all his life (including the past) at this moment is expressed in his > >>>>> conversation with his oncle: ?it's got to be that this life of mine > is > >>>>> nothing but a nightmare!?. In this moment, Sokolov's past in the > >>>>> prision > >>>>> camp becomes also meaningless: then, his link to life (the > >>>>> m-perezhivanie > >>>>> that made being alive meaningful to him) was meeting his family; but > at > >>>>> that time his family was already dead, so when he discovers it, he > >>>>> realizes > >>>>> that this m-perezhivanie (the idea of meeting his family) was linking > >>>>> him > >>>>> to death, not to life, so all his efforts to surviving become > >>>>> meaningless: > >>>>> ?Every night, when I was a prisioner, I talked with them. Now it > turns > >>>>> out > >>>>> that for two years I was talking with the dead??. In this > conversation, > >>>>> however, his oncle offers him an alternative m-perezhivanie to relate > >>>>> to > >>>>> his life: he still has a son, so the m-perehivanie of meeting his > >>>>> family > >>>>> can still turns Sokolov's life meaningful: ?you've got to go on > living. > >>>>> You > >>>>> have to find Anatoly. When the war is over, your son will get > married, > >>>>> you > >>>>> will live with them. You will take up your carpentry again, play with > >>>>> your > >>>>> grandkids?. It takes some time to Sokolov to enter into this > >>>>> m-perezhivanie, but he does it and his life becomes meaningful again: > >>>>> ?and > >>>>> then, unexpectedly, I've got a gleam of sunlight?. But, then, Anatoly > >>>>> also > >>>>> dies. How to keep living? Here, Sokolov holds the m-perezhivanie that > >>>>> linked him to life until that moment, and therefore, he needs a son; > >>>>> pretending being the father of Vanya turns his life meaningful again. > >>>>> > >>>>> Another interesting thing, still at that level, is how Sokolov's > >>>>> relation > >>>>> with his own immediate death changes along the different occasions in > >>>>> which > >>>>> he faces it. I thing here there are examples of > >>>>> experiencing-as-contemplation -in my view, this is not > >>>>> experiencing-as-struggle because the situation of impossibility (the > >>>>> immediate death) is removed existentially (Sokolov's life is given > >>>>> back to > >>>>> him), so that there is not a permanent situation of impossibility > >>>>> which is > >>>>> initially meaningless and is turned into meaningful. In each occasion > >>>>> in > >>>>> which Sokolov is faced with his immediate death, the m-perezhivanie > >>>>> that > >>>>> mediates this relationship is different. When he is captured, his > >>>>> m-perezhivanie is expressed as: ?here's my death coming after me?. > >>>>> When he > >>>>> is conducted to meet the nazi official, the m-perezhivanie is > expressed > >>>>> as: > >>>>> ?the end of your misery?, ?to my death and my release of this > torment, > >>>>> I > >>>>> will drink?. In the first, the death is running after Sokolov; in the > >>>>> second, it is Sokolov happily going to meet death. Later, at the end > of > >>>>> the > >>>>> film, he faces his immediate death again, and the m-perezhivanie is > >>>>> expressed as: ?I'm really worried that I might die in my sleep, and > >>>>> that > >>>>> would frighten my little son?. > >>>>> > >>>>> Well, just some thoughts after watching this wonderful film. > >>>>> > >>>>> Best regards, > >>>>> > >>>>> Marc. > >>>>> > >>>>> 2017-01-15 0:06 GMT+01:00 Christopher Schuck < > schuckcschuck@gmail.com > >>>>> >: > >>>>> > >>>>> Yes, definitely that article! And specifically, when I used > "pivoting" > >>>>> I > >>>>> > >>>>>> couldn't help but think of Beth's earlier example about how a child > >>>>>> will > >>>>>> use a stick as a pivot for a horse. Perhaps a somewhat different > >>>>>> application but related, no? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 4:06 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > >>>>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no > >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Chris, all, > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> your post is totally relevant to Beth's and Monica's article in the > >>>>>>> special issue. They write about film and perezhivanie (quoting > >>>>>>> Sobchack) > >>>>>>> the following: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> The reason that film allows us to glimpse the future is that there > >>>>>>> is a > >>>>>>> connection between filmic time and ?real? time: ?The images of a > film > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> exist > >>>>>> > >>>>>> in the world as a temporal flow, within finitude and situation. > >>>>>>> Indeed, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> the > >>>>>> > >>>>>> fascination of the film is that it does not transcend our > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> lived-experience > >>>>>> > >>>>>> of temporality, but rather that it seems to partake of it, to share > >>>>>>> it? > >>>>>>> (1992, p. 60). > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> And later > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> "Specifically, the way that the flow of time becomes > >>>>>>> multidirectional is > >>>>>>> that ?rehearsals make it necessary to think of the future in such a > >>>>>>> way > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> as > >>>>>> > >>>>>> to create a past? (1985, p. 39). As Schechner ex-plains: ?In a very > >>>>>>> real > >>>>>>> way the future ? the project coming into existence through the > >>>>>>> process > >>>>>>> of > >>>>>>> rehearsal ? determines the past: what will be kept from earlier > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> rehearsals > >>>>>> > >>>>>> or from the ?source ma-terials? (1985, p. 39)." > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Alfredo > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> ________________________________________ > >>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >>>>>>> du> > >>>>>>> on behalf of Christopher Schuck > >>>>>>> Sent: 14 January 2017 21:43 > >>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fate of a Man > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> But that's both the limitation and strength of art or fictional > >>>>>>> narrative > >>>>>>> as opposed to real life, isn't it? That art focuses our attention > and > >>>>>>> highlights certain features in a way that is idealized and > >>>>>>> artificially > >>>>>>> "designed" to convey something more clearly and purely (but less > >>>>>>> organically and authentically) than it would be conveyed in the > >>>>>>> course > >>>>>>> of > >>>>>>> living it, or observing someone else living it? One way to get > around > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> this > >>>>>> > >>>>>> would be, as David says, to analyze the film in terms of clues as to > >>>>>>> the > >>>>>>> stages of emergence. But maybe another way to use the film would be > >>>>>>> to > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> view > >>>>>> > >>>>>> it not so much as a complete, self-sufficient "example" of > >>>>>>> perezhivanie, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> as > >>>>>> > >>>>>> a *tool *for pivoting back and forth between the concept of > >>>>>>> perezhivanie > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> as > >>>>>> > >>>>>> imaginatively constructed (through fiction), and the concept of > >>>>>>> perezhivanie as imaginatively constructed (through our real living > >>>>>>> experience and observation of it). So, it would be the *pivoting* > >>>>>>> between > >>>>>>> these two manifestations of the concept (designed vs. evolved, as > >>>>>>> David > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> put > >>>>>> > >>>>>> it) that reveals new insights about perezhivanie, rather than > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> understanding > >>>>>> > >>>>>> the concept from the film per se. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 3:08 PM, David Kellogg < > dkellogg60@gmail.com > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I think there's a good reason why Andy started a new thread on > this: > >>>>>>> he's a > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> very tidy thinker (quite unlike yours truly) and he knows that one > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> reason > >>>>>>> why xmca threads are seldom cumulative is that they digress to > >>>>>>> related > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> problems without solving the immmediate ones. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Yes, of course, a film allows us to consider an example of > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> "perezhivanie", > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> but it is a designed perezhivanie rather than an evolved one; it > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> doesn't > >>>>>>> explicitly display the various stages of emergence required for a > >>>>>>> genetic > >>>>>>> analysis, unless we analyze it not as a complete and finished work > of > >>>>>>> art > >>>>>>> but instead for clues as to the stages of its creation (the way > that, > >>>>>>> for > >>>>>>> example, "Quietly Flows the Don" was analyzed to determine its > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> authenticity). > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> I remember that In the original short story, the schnapps drinking > >>>>>>>> scene seemed like pure sleight of hand: an artistically gratuitous > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> example > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> of what eventually gave Soviet social realism such a bad name. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> David Kellogg > >>>>>>>> Macquarie University > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 10:04 PM, Carol Macdonald < > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> carolmacdon@gmail.com > >>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Fellow XMCa-ers > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> I have watched it through now, thank you Andy, but right now only > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> empirical > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> psychological categories come to mind. I will watch it again and > in > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>> meanwhile let my fellows with more recent experience of > >>>>>>>> /perezhivanie/ > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> take > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> the discussion further. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> It is a kind of timeless story, and modern film techniques would > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> perhaps > >>>>>>>> be > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> more explicit. At the least I would say it has for me a Russian > >>>>>>>>> understanding of suffering, perhaps because of their unique > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> experience > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> of > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> it. But having said that, WWII must have generated other similar > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> experiences, apart from the first part about Andrei's family > dying > >>>>>>>>> in > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>> famine. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Carol > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> On 14 January 2017 at 02:15, Andy Blunden > >>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> I watched it in two parts with subtitles: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16w7fg_destiny-of-a-man- > >>>>>>>>>> 1959-pt-1_creation > >>>>>>>>>> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16wat4_destiny-of-a-man- > >>>>>>>>>> 1959-pt-2_creation > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Andy > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ > >>>>>>>>>> Andy Blunden > >>>>>>>>>> http://home.mira.net/~andy > >>>>>>>>>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective- > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> decision-making > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On 14/01/2017 2:35 AM, Beth Ferholt wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Thank you for taking us to a shared example. I think that > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> having a > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>> Carol A Macdonald Ph.D (Edin) > >>>>>>>>> Cultural Historical Activity Theory > >>>>>>>>> Honorary Research Fellow: Department of Linguistics, Unisa > >>>>>>>>> alternative email address: tmacdoca@unisa.ac.za > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >> > >> > > > > > -- > Beth Ferholt > Assistant Professor > Department of Early Childhood and Art Education > Brooklyn College, City University of New York > 2900 Bedford Avenue > Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 > > Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu > Phone: (718) 951-5205 > Fax: (718) 951-4816 > From ablunden@mira.net Sun Feb 5 20:20:29 2017 From: ablunden@mira.net (Andy Blunden) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 15:20:29 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fate of a Man In-Reply-To: References: <048522a2-cca0-3e56-cae2-f2142b9fbd5a@mira.net> <1484427999407.2877@iped.uio.no> <2270f5e7-7d82-5150-89a3-808a4e20b89b@mira.net> <9B8D2964-0926-4976-91F2-CDD51E50A6F5@gmail.com> Message-ID: Your post is so rich, Beth, .... Fedor Vasilyuk says, on the topic of psychotherapy practice, that the very first thing a patient says when you meet 'em should be what you work with. Unfortunately, the DVD of "Manchester" is not released here till February 21. I'll certainly be watching it then though. Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden http://home.mira.net/~andy http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making On 6/02/2017 3:02 PM, Christopher Schuck wrote: > Beth, I really like your point at the beginning about how interruptions can > help us understand perezhivanie. Perhaps you were only referring to > specific kinds of interruptions (politics and children), but I am also > reminded of the way that many stories and films are periodically > "interrupted," as we return to the outer frame of the narrator and his > listener who briefly pause to reflect on the story-in-progress before > plunging back in. Notably, in Fate of a Man this does *not* happen; the > outer narrative only bookends the main story at beginning and end. > > This was a very rich post, and I suspect that everyone will be picking it > apart for quite some time. But two very quick thoughts. You write: "I think > perezhivanie is about truth, somehow, although I am not sure how." Later: > "we won't understand this process until we see children as full people. And > simultaneously as children." (Unlike, for instance, in Fate of a Man.) > Perhaps the relevance of truth to perezhivanie has something to do with the > fact that people cannot genuinely co-create something in the sense of > playmakers if one is deceiving the other? If the adult deliberately > misleads the child for his own welfare (as in Life Is Beautiful), however > ethical, there is a hierarchical relationship implied which would appear to > be at odds with the spirit of shared perezhivanie. > > Second, re. Manchester By the Sea: I wonder if an alternate reading might > be that perezhivanie *is* possible, but it has only barely started by the > movie's end. I see any potential perezhivanie occurring not with the > ex-wife, but with the teenager. Might the intimate way that they bicker and > argue, and develop a distinctive rapport, have anything to do with this? > The teenager seems to be teaching Casey Affleck something no one else can > tell him....I'm not sure. > > Chris > > On Sunday, February 5, 2017, Beth Ferholt > wrote: > >> Thanks for the calling out to Monica and me, Mike and Andy -- I had to stop >> checking XMCA for a couple of weeks so I did not see the discussion or your >> notes to me in the chain, until today. One of the the strengths of XMCA is >> that it creates a conversation that can include people who can not always >> respond that very day, or even week, due to various forms of interruption! >> Often these "interruptions" are children or political events, which can >> help us to understand perezhivanie. >> >> As well as spending time at JFK, recently, many of us here in New York have >> been attending local protests to keep our neighborhoods feeling safe for >> everyone. I live in a neighborhood in Brooklyn that includes several >> Muslim communities and several Jewish communities (as well as a few Russian >> and Polish communities), and at the local protests these past few weeks >> some people have had photographs of their family members who were killed by >> the Nazis attached to the back of their "never again" signs. Also we all, >> Muslim, Jewish, etc. families, have been often bringing our children to >> the protests. >> >> So I have been thinking a lot about children and hope, during the past few >> weeks. It is within this frame that I saw this film. I think the film was >> expecting us to see the child as only benefitting from the main character's >> lying, saying that he was the child's father, and of course the child did >> benefit, but I think that perezhivanie is about truth, somehow, although I >> am not sure how. >> >> My second thought is that Manchester by the Sea must have been referencing >> this film, with its return-to-the-space-where-the-house-was scene, and >> also >> with the choice to replace the lost self (as father) / family or no. I >> think it might help this conversation if we all saw both films, actually. >> Two thoughts on this methods suggestion for our conversation, before I >> return to the topic itself. >> >> 1) It is odd how closely the two films are related, as I did not know that >> the two films were related when I told Chris to see Manchester by the Sea >> in relation to thinking about perezhivanie. I told Chris when I saw him in >> person, and I think that discussions about perezhivanie are often different >> in person. We learned at LCHC in the 2004/5 playworld projects that these >> in person discussions about perezhivanie have a pronounced proleptic >> structure, mirroring the topic of study, such that the conclusion of the >> discussion appears at the start: It feels like magic is happening. (I >> think this has something to do with how good teachers see the things in >> their classroom that are useful or no before they happen or "behind their >> heads" ... when you are very present you have this "sixth sense," which is >> really an experience of time moving in two directions at once ... being >> very present can often require a lot of in person time and being with >> children speeds up the process.) >> >> 2) It is a strength that the XMCA conversations can continue through all of >> our different schedules. It is a negative that they are not in person, and >> seeing films together can really help. This is where we went on the >> perezhivanie facebook page when it was briefly in English and in Russian -- >> with a film, and it was very helpful. (Of course I am thinking of this >> while considering the changing role and form of LCHC and Mike's >> participation in LCHC and XMCA. I am thinking of the mistakes that are >> communication. A story about this that I thought of recently, which shows >> this point well, and seems worth retelling BECAUSE when studying >> perezhivanie the form is often (always??) the study of the content: As a >> newish graduate student Mike once said "thank you" to me when I made a >> comment in the afternoon about an AM conversation that day. Mike's "thank >> you" encouraged me to pay extra attention to this comment/thought of mine, >> which later became important in our analysis of a difficult-to-decipher >> playworld event. I was thinking of this event as I walked and talked with >> a doctoral student of my own -- I seem to have a heavily spacial memory >> process and my student and I were walking through a doorway -- and I >> suddenly realized that Mike could have been thanking me for holding the >> door for him at this time in the past when his feedback was so important to >> me ... maybe he did not hear my comment, but just thanked me for holding >> the door ... in fact it now appears to me that this was probably the case!) >> >> The interesting thing to me about the above 2 points is the framing. It IS >> the "()" within the "()" that interests me. Maybe Framing is all >> communication or all thought or consciousness ... Bateson? ... but I think >> we need to tackle framing head on when discussing perezhivanie. The two >> films are very different in regards to framing, I think this is why they >> are most interesting to think about together, but first I have two >> citations for thinking about time that I use frequently in my writing on >> perezhivanie. >> >> These seem worth repeating here, as this thinking about time in space/time >> seems to me to be thinking about framing ... the "()" makes us double back >> in time as we read -- : >> >> (As to Performance, Alfredo copied the Schechner quote above.) >> >> Dewey's relation of the notion of object to prolepsis (on XMCA): >> Mike (2007) used the term ?temporally double sided? to describe this >> phenomenon of growing back and towards the future and the past >> simultaneously. >> >> What I am (still) thinking about, now, most often: >> It is the juxtaposition of temporal double sidedness with stages that >> creates perezhivanie. What Schechner argues is that this juxtaposition >> provides the rhythm that allows us to raise ourselves up and hover, >> suspended momentarily in a state of being simultaneously ourselves and not >> ourselves: our past and future selves (someone else). >> >> So my first point is about framing and my second is about children. The >> Fate Of Man is all about the frames / "()". The stories are nested within >> eachother, repeating themselves, maybe even sort of like a fractal, or >> anyhow a spiral? I have some congenital prosopagnosia, getting worse as I >> age and definitely bad with a film like this. I kept thinking we were back >> at the ferry as the form of the conversation and context images repeated >> themselves, as I could not recognize the face of the character who was the >> audience for our hero's story! Manchester by the Sea, on the other hand, >> had no frames. We just jumped right in and rode it through. I only saw >> Manchester once but do others think this is true? relevant? >> >> I think that the question of children's position in relation to adult >> perezhivanie is central in both of these films. The children in both of >> these films appear to want the main characters to try again at being >> fathers. This is a critique of films about children -- I can not think of >> the name of the person who made this critique, but I can find it for anyone >> if needed -- : We adults often make films not about children but about our >> own childhoods. We make films about children who are no longer with us. >> But is this really best for the films, as films are usually best when they >> are somehow in dialogue with their topic, this is a characteristic of the >> medium, no? >> >> If you do not have some pretense, some playing again, you can not have >> perezhivanie. But I think that Fate of Man is not about perezhivanie, >> although in a different way than Manchester by the Sea is not about >> perezhivanie. In Manchester by the Sea there is no other with whom to >> perezhivanie because the main character and his former wife still love each >> other, or at lease he still loves her and she returns enough of the love to >> keep him loving her, and neither of them can pull the other up because they >> both hit bottom together and in the same story. In Fate of Man there is is >> no chance for perezhivanie because the other needs to be involved in some >> honest way, or there is no dialogue. >> >> In Fate of Man the hero seems to me to be playing out his memory in the >> real world. A child is not an other with whom one can ever perezhivanie. >> This is not perezhivanie as there is no real world as a player, and this is >> why our hero's heart will fail him. He did not reach bottom and then start >> to pull himself up by connecting with another with great bravery. Instead, >> as he says himself, he just snapped -- he is now living in a dream. >> >> As Larry put it, above in this chain: "In other words, navigating through >> the suffering and existential emptiness is not a hero?s journey." And this >> point is relevant, again, to our method for studying perezhivanie. I don't >> think we can manage this one on our own (XMCA), even as a group that allows >> for conversations over extended time periods. >> >> If form and content are related in this process, I'd say that we won't >> understand this process until we see children as full people. And >> simultaneously as children. Children have something to tell us about this >> process that no one else can tell us, and they are not going to tell us >> this in a way that those of us who are researchers/scholars can listen, >> without the bridge of the teacher voices. How to include these voices in >> our research is key. And the answer has something to do with art, as well >> as with time and space. >> >> I am going to send this as it is long enough already, and then catch up >> with the related chains after I do ... And I won't say more now, but I >> agree with all the people who thought this was a great pick to start the >> discussion. Many levels to discuss and I also found many aspects of the >> film related to perezhivanie in many ways! Beth >> >> On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 11:51 PM, Andy Blunden wrote: >> >>> How about a documentary movie about the first Trump voter who dies as a >>> result of repeal of Obama Care? That would be a perezhivanie within a >>> perezhivanie! >>> >>> Andy >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Andy Blunden >>> http://home.mira.net/~andy >>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making >>> On 21/01/2017 12:03 PM, Helena Worthen wrote: >>> >>>> I am late to this discussion, but I have been paying attention. I was >>>> reluctant to expose myself to the emotional challenges of the film. I >> knew >>>> that between the majestic music, the stunning black and white images, >> the >>>> beautiful human faces and bodies (and some very ugly ones), and the >> twists >>>> of the story, I was going to be deeply moved. However, I have been >> reading >>>> two books by Svetlana Alexievich -- Voices from Chernobyl and Secondhand >>>> Time - which tell equally heartbreaking, horrifying stories of >> suffering. >>>> Reading her work inclines me to place the film in the context of the >> period >>>> of deStalinization after Kruschev's 1956 speech to the 20th Congress of >> the >>>> CPSU, which gave the signal that it was permissible to begin to talk >> freely >>>> about Soviet history. It was a period of trying to build a story that >> could >>>> explain and honor, if not justify, the extreme suffering of the Soviet >>>> people. This film seems to me to set out to accomplish that. So does >>>> Alexievich's book, which is a compilation of interviews done between >> 1991 >>>> and 2012, with people who had something to say (good and bad) about the >>>> Soviet regime and the experience of its dissolution. She got the 2015 >> Nobel >>>> Prize for this book. And I sense that Andy, or someone, is anticipating >>>> that the US is going to have to produce some works of scholarship or >> art, >>>> or both, that attempt to explain what is happening now here in the US -- >>>> for example, this afternoon, under President Trump. >>>> >>>> Helena Worthen >>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com >>>> Vietnam blog: helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>>> >>>> On Jan 19, 2017, at 4:00 PM, Christopher Schuck wrote: >>>> >>>> For some reason I couldn't see the subtitles showing up in Fate of a Man >>>>> the first time, so I started to watch it dubbed in English instead. But >>>>> the >>>>> mannered Hollywood accents definitely were not exactly helping to >> convey >>>>> the "real Russian soul" Robbins talks about! It felt like I was being >>>>> asked >>>>> to imagine Cary Grant inhabiting Andrei's perezhivanie-ing body. So, I >>>>> started over with the subtitled version. >>>>> >>>>> Here are some quick initial reflections: wonderful movie, and in Andrei >>>>> one >>>>> of the more memorable characters I have seen. But I also found myself >>>>> thinking how big a difference there is between watching a film on my >>>>> 12-inch laptop with headphones (my only option at the moment), and >>>>> sitting >>>>> back and immersing yourself in a darkened theater or at least on a >>>>> widescreen TV without any other distractions, allowing ourselves to >> "fall >>>>> into this space" by virtue of our very awareness of the illusion >>>>> generated >>>>> by the frame, as Beth and Monica put it. This difference becomes even >>>>> bigger if the screen you're viewing it on also enables you to quickly >>>>> check >>>>> email from time to time during the movie, as many people do these days. >>>>> If >>>>> we are to consider the film experience as a model (analogy?) for >>>>> perezhivanie or even a certain kind of simulation of it, this effect >> that >>>>> occurs when we lose ourselves in a film would be undermined by an >>>>> especially small frame or poor viewing conditions. At what point does >>>>> "the >>>>> knowledge that the movement we experience is just an illusion" (p. 2 in >>>>> their article) undermine the perezhivanie-like quality of film as >> opposed >>>>> to forming an integral part of it? And, might the way distraction >>>>> functions >>>>> to undermine perezhivanie in the context of film in any way mirror how >> we >>>>> "distract" ourselves in the course of living lives from conscious >>>>> engagement with the perezhivanie we are otherwise undergoing? Is >> viewing >>>>> a >>>>> film on a 12-inch screen while checking email and calling it an >>>>> "experience" in any way analogous to the self-deceptions and escapes we >>>>> engage in during the course of either experience-as-struggle or >>>>> experience-as-contemplation? I did not check email while watching Fate >>>>> of a >>>>> Man, by the way. Just in case you're wondering. >>>>> >>>>> As for the film itself: I was struck by the incidental way in which the >>>>> earlier loss of his childhood family is introduced and acknowledged at >>>>> the >>>>> very outset, and how this contrasts with the dramatic ongoing >>>>> perezhivanie >>>>> that ensues going forward: it is as if this early loss is "taken for >>>>> granted" as also part of the Russian experience. We are not privy to >> any >>>>> perezhivanie he might have presumably undergone before that point; it >> is >>>>> simply not "within the frame." At several points, I was reminded of >>>>> Satyajit's World of Apu (last movie in his trilogy), where there was >>>>> also a >>>>> set of early losses and a relationship formed with a "son." Have any of >>>>> you >>>>> seen it? I think it would also be a good example of perezhivanie. >>>>> >>>>> I would not want to overemphasize the use of literary motifs, since >>>>> Bondarchuk was presumably not making any references to the concept of >>>>> perezhivanie as such. But there were several devices that evoked Beth >> and >>>>> Monica's passage from To The Lighthouse ("Time stand still here"), and >>>>> their metaphor of a life (or more specifically, a perezhivanie within a >>>>> life) spiraling back over itself to bring two disparate moments into >>>>> juxtaposition in a way such that "your life becomes three-dimensional >>>>> again" (p. 2). One occurs in the various scenes when Andrei gazes up at >>>>> the >>>>> sky in reverie and all we see are clouds, or the scene where he lies in >>>>> the >>>>> grass after his first escape and the camera pans back as it becomes >> very >>>>> quiet, leaving nothing but him swallowed up in the vastness of nature. >>>>> There is a certain timeless quality to these scenes, a sense that he is >>>>> momentarily transcending the linear temporal flow of his life as he >>>>> either >>>>> stands outside it and "stands still" in it. It could be a thousand >> years >>>>> passing by in those clouds, or just the 17 years of his second phase; >> it >>>>> suddenly doesn't matter. Another thing I noticed was the use of the two >>>>> musical themes: the love song the accordionist plays for him and Irina, >>>>> and >>>>> the festive music incongruously piped in at the concentration camp >> during >>>>> that amazing scene around Part 1, minute 45 where the prisoners are >> being >>>>> marched in and the crematorium is going full blast down the road. At >> some >>>>> point (I couldn't relocate it) Andrei has a flashback where he revisits >>>>> the >>>>> love song and his memories of Irina; then at minute 20 in Part 2, while >>>>> processing his family's death after coming home from the war, he finds >>>>> himself hearing the concentration camp song on the record player and is >>>>> suddenly transported back to that traumatic experience. Yet he does not >>>>> smash the record right away; he stares at it for a minute, almost as if >>>>> he >>>>> is resituating these two moments in relation to each other. >>>>> >>>>> Perhaps I am overanalyzing, but I found both these motifs to speak to >>>>> Beth >>>>> and Monica's examples in the way they bring two moments back into >> contact >>>>> with each other. >>>>> >>>>> Finally, Mike and Andy's discussion in the Misha thread about the >>>>> watching >>>>> of a film functioning as perezhivanie for those viewers for whom it >>>>> reflects and repeats their own experience, raises a question about the >>>>> difference between extended perezhivanie and the personal re-enactment >> of >>>>> one's perezhivanie within a much smaller time scale (the two or three >>>>> hours >>>>> spent watching the movie). I hope at some point we could delve more >> into >>>>> this issue of time frame and time scale in various forms of >> perezhivanie. >>>>> Chris >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 8:39 PM, Andy Blunden >> wrote: >>>>> Thank you Marc! It was the third "plane" which was my intention in >>>>>> providing "Fate of a Man" for discussion. You picked out what were for >>>>>> me >>>>>> also the main (but by no means the only) instances of perezhivanija in >>>>>> this >>>>>> movie. >>>>>> >>>>>> It seems to me that Sokolov (the author) offers one perezhivanie in >>>>>> particular as the main theme of the movie. At the beginning of the >>>>>> movie, >>>>>> the man and boy walk up the path to the camera and at the end of the >>>>>> movie >>>>>> they walk off together again. So this is the central theme. As you >> say, >>>>>> when Sokolov's family has all been killed, even his talented war-hero >>>>>> son >>>>>> who was going to be a famous mathematician, his life has become >>>>>> meaningless. I really liked your reflections of Sokolov's reflections >>>>>> too. >>>>>> He sees the young orphan boy who, he discovers, has no family and >>>>>> doesn't >>>>>> even know what town he comes from, but is aimlessly living on pieces >> of >>>>>> rubbish. He sees that the two of them are in the same situation. So >>>>>> after >>>>>> some time mulling this over a they sit together in the truck, he lies >> to >>>>>> the boy and tells him that he is the boy's father, and they embrace. >> But >>>>>> the boy questions this and he reasserts his claim and the boy accepts >>>>>> this. >>>>>> The man is able to define a new meaning for his life; he has done this >>>>>> autonomously without the help of a therapist, but he still needs >>>>>> another, >>>>>> the boy, to embody that meaning. But he knows it is his own invention. >>>>>> The >>>>>> boy on the other hand has to be made to believe it is true; he is not >>>>>> sufficiently mature to manufacture this meaning himself, but as a >> child >>>>>> he >>>>>> can be guided by an adult. As you say, Marc, it is very significant >> when >>>>>> Sokolov tells us how he is now, again, worried about his own death. >>>>>> What if >>>>>> I died in my sleep? that would be a shock for my son! >>>>>> >>>>>> For me, this reflection causes me to look back on the man's whole >>>>>> struggle >>>>>> during the war: in the first phase he does not differentiate between >> his >>>>>> life as a father and husband and his life as a Soviet citizen - war is >>>>>> his >>>>>> duty and he is confident, as is everyone else, of victory. His bravery >>>>>> in >>>>>> driving his truck to the front line under fire reflects the fact that >> he >>>>>> has never imagined his own death. Then he finds himself prostrate >>>>>> before 2 >>>>>> Nazi soldiers who we assume are going among the wounded shooting >> anyone >>>>>> who >>>>>> has survived. But surprisingly, he is allowed to live, but is to be >>>>>> used as >>>>>> a slave. Sokolov has been confronted by his own mortality for the >> first >>>>>> time and he chooses life, but accepts slavery (Sartre and Hegel both >>>>>> thematize this moment in their philosophy). In this second phase of >>>>>> Sokolov's life he is a survivor. Everything hinges on surviving and >>>>>> returning to his wife and family. As you point out, Marc, his later >>>>>> reflections on this are particularly poignant, when he discovers the >>>>>> futility of this hope. Eventually, the life of forced labour becomes >>>>>> unbearable. He cries out: "Why are we forced to dig 3 cubic metres >> when >>>>>> 1 >>>>>> cubic meter is enough for a grave!" Sokolov has accepted and embraced >>>>>> death >>>>>> after all. (Transition to the third phase.) To his German masters this >>>>>> is >>>>>> an unendurable act of defiance. As David points out, there are flaws >> in >>>>>> the >>>>>> scene which follows, but ... he confronts his own death defiantly, >>>>>> stares >>>>>> it in the eye, spits on it, and his life again gains meaning as a >> "brave >>>>>> Soviet soldier" unafraid of death even in such an impossible moment. >> Not >>>>>> only does he survive, but takes the Nazi Colonel prisoner and hands >> the >>>>>> war >>>>>> plans over to the Red Army. Now, when he is offered the chance to >>>>>> return to >>>>>> his wife as a war hero he declines and asks to be sent back to the >>>>>> front. >>>>>> His life has adopted this new meaning which casts his life as a father >>>>>> into >>>>>> the shade. He no longer fears death. But he is persuaded to take time >>>>>> off >>>>>> and learns of the death of his family. As Marc relates, the continued >>>>>> survival of his son, who is now also a war hero, provides continued >>>>>> meaning >>>>>> and integrates the two themes in his life. This takes work, as Marc >>>>>> points >>>>>> out, and he has the assistance of an older man, in achieving this >>>>>> redefinition of his life. But tragically, with the death of his son >>>>>> (and NB >>>>>> the end of the war, albeit in victory) his life is again without >>>>>> meaning. >>>>>> Fourth phase. He has survived, but has no purpose. By becoming a >> father >>>>>> again (Fifth phase), he regains the fear of death and meaning in his >>>>>> life. >>>>>> It is real work, and we witness this psychological turmoil as he copes >>>>>> with >>>>>> the idea that this scruffy orphan boy could be a son to him, and >>>>>> eventually >>>>>> he manages it. >>>>>> >>>>>> The transition between each phase is a critical period during which >>>>>> Sokolov's personality is transformed. Note also, that there is a >>>>>> premonition of this perezhivanie in Sokolov's earlier life: his family >>>>>> is >>>>>> wiped out in the Civil War and the famine of 1922, then he meets his >>>>>> wife-to-be, also raised in an orphanage, and they together create a >> life >>>>>> and have 17 happy years before the Nazi invasion intrudes. So from the >>>>>> beginning of the movie we are introduced to the main theme. >>>>>> >>>>>> These are the main moments in the movie, which caused me to select it >>>>>> for >>>>>> discussion rather than any other movie. Also, there is no doubt that >> in >>>>>> producing this movie in 1958 the Soviet government was engaged with >> its >>>>>> people, in a process of collective perezhivanie and by reflecting on >> the >>>>>> collective perezhivanie during the period of the war, before and >> after, >>>>>> they aim to assist the people in collectively assigning meaning to >> this >>>>>> terrible suffering and like the man and his "son" walking again into >> the >>>>>> future. As a propaganda movie, of course, it is open to much >> criticism, >>>>>> but >>>>>> that is hardly the point. I appreciate Marc's analysis in terms of the >>>>>> other concepts he has introduced. I wouldn't mind a recap on these. In >>>>>> terms of Vasilyuk's concepts, Sokolov's life-world is *simple and >>>>>> difficult*. The boy's life world is *simple and easy*. >>>>>> >>>>>> Can we continue to discuss "Fate of a Man", while I open another movie >>>>>> for >>>>>> analysis? I think there are at least 10 subscribers to this list who >>>>>> have >>>>>> published in learned journals on the topic of perezhivanie in >> childhood. >>>>>> Perhaps one of you would like to reflect on the boy's perezhivanija? >>>>>> >>>>>> Andy >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>> Andy Blunden >>>>>> http://home.mira.net/~andy >>>>>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making >>>>>> On 18/01/2017 5:14 AM, Marc Clar? wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi, all, >>>>>>> and thank you, Andy, for sharing this amazing film, which I didn't >>>>>>> know. I >>>>>>> think it will be very useful to share and discuss our respective >> views >>>>>>> on >>>>>>> perezhivanie. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In my view, the film could be analyzed in terms of perezhivanie in >>>>>>> three >>>>>>> different planes. First, we could consider the person who watches the >>>>>>> film, >>>>>>> and we could study how the meaning she forms for the film >> restructures >>>>>>> her >>>>>>> relationship with aspects of her real life -such as, for example, her >>>>>>> own >>>>>>> death or the death of a beloved one, etc. (perhaps this is a little >> bit >>>>>>> like what Beth and Monica, or Veresov and Fleer, do with their study >> of >>>>>>> playworlds?). In this plane, which would be perhaps the most >>>>>>> naturalistic >>>>>>> one, the film could be studied as an human-made cultural artifact >> which >>>>>>> restuctures psychological functions; here, the meaning formed for the >>>>>>> film >>>>>>> by who watches it and uses it as mediator in her relation to her real >>>>>>> life >>>>>>> would be an m-perezhivanie. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In a second plane, we could proceed as if the film was real life, and >>>>>>> we >>>>>>> could consider Sokolov telling his story to the man he meets by the >>>>>>> river >>>>>>> (a little bit like Carla telling her story to me). In this plane, >>>>>>> Sokolov's >>>>>>> narrative (i.e., what is showed to us as narrated flashback) could be >>>>>>> considered as a cultural artifact that Sokolov uses to relate to all >>>>>>> what >>>>>>> happened to him. At this plane, the meaning of this narrative would >> be >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> m-perezhivanie that, in that moment, mediates the relationship >> between >>>>>>> Sokolov and the war events he experienced years ago (but these events >>>>>>> are >>>>>>> still very present to him, so although relating to past events, there >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> here a Sokolov's activity [towards the past war events] which is in >>>>>>> present >>>>>>> -this echoes Christopher when, within our conversations, said: ?Part >> of >>>>>>> this might also be a question of what it means to describe and >>>>>>> represent >>>>>>> one's own perezhivanie figuratively/narratively (whether to others, >> or >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> oneself), as opposed to living that perezhivanie. Especially if the >>>>>>> attempt >>>>>>> to capture/represent one's own perezhivanie is, perhaps, also central >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> the living of it?? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In a third plane, we could proceed as if Sokolov's narration was not >> a >>>>>>> retrospective narration, but the on-time sequence of events with >>>>>>> on-time >>>>>>> Sokolov's explanation of these events (in the moments in which the >>>>>>> narrator >>>>>>> voice is assumed within the flashback). In this plane, there are >>>>>>> several >>>>>>> interesting perezhivanie phenomena. Clearly, there is a Sokolov's >>>>>>> activity >>>>>>> of experiencing-as-struggle, which initiates when he realizes that >> all >>>>>>> his >>>>>>> family, except one son, had been killed 2 years ago. At this moment, >>>>>>> his >>>>>>> life becomes meaningless; the meaning (m-perezhivanie) he uses to >>>>>>> relate >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> all his life (including the past) at this moment is expressed in his >>>>>>> conversation with his oncle: ?it's got to be that this life of mine >> is >>>>>>> nothing but a nightmare!?. In this moment, Sokolov's past in the >>>>>>> prision >>>>>>> camp becomes also meaningless: then, his link to life (the >>>>>>> m-perezhivanie >>>>>>> that made being alive meaningful to him) was meeting his family; but >> at >>>>>>> that time his family was already dead, so when he discovers it, he >>>>>>> realizes >>>>>>> that this m-perezhivanie (the idea of meeting his family) was linking >>>>>>> him >>>>>>> to death, not to life, so all his efforts to surviving become >>>>>>> meaningless: >>>>>>> ?Every night, when I was a prisioner, I talked with them. Now it >> turns >>>>>>> out >>>>>>> that for two years I was talking with the dead??. In this >> conversation, >>>>>>> however, his oncle offers him an alternative m-perezhivanie to relate >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> his life: he still has a son, so the m-perehivanie of meeting his >>>>>>> family >>>>>>> can still turns Sokolov's life meaningful: ?you've got to go on >> living. >>>>>>> You >>>>>>> have to find Anatoly. When the war is over, your son will get >> married, >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> will live with them. You will take up your carpentry again, play with >>>>>>> your >>>>>>> grandkids?. It takes some time to Sokolov to enter into this >>>>>>> m-perezhivanie, but he does it and his life becomes meaningful again: >>>>>>> ?and >>>>>>> then, unexpectedly, I've got a gleam of sunlight?. But, then, Anatoly >>>>>>> also >>>>>>> dies. How to keep living? Here, Sokolov holds the m-perezhivanie that >>>>>>> linked him to life until that moment, and therefore, he needs a son; >>>>>>> pretending being the father of Vanya turns his life meaningful again. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Another interesting thing, still at that level, is how Sokolov's >>>>>>> relation >>>>>>> with his own immediate death changes along the different occasions in >>>>>>> which >>>>>>> he faces it. I thing here there are examples of >>>>>>> experiencing-as-contemplation -in my view, this is not >>>>>>> experiencing-as-struggle because the situation of impossibility (the >>>>>>> immediate death) is removed existentially (Sokolov's life is given >>>>>>> back to >>>>>>> him), so that there is not a permanent situation of impossibility >>>>>>> which is >>>>>>> initially meaningless and is turned into meaningful. In each occasion >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> which Sokolov is faced with his immediate death, the m-perezhivanie >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> mediates this relationship is different. When he is captured, his >>>>>>> m-perezhivanie is expressed as: ?here's my death coming after me?. >>>>>>> When he >>>>>>> is conducted to meet the nazi official, the m-perezhivanie is >> expressed >>>>>>> as: >>>>>>> ?the end of your misery?, ?to my death and my release of this >> torment, >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> will drink?. In the first, the death is running after Sokolov; in the >>>>>>> second, it is Sokolov happily going to meet death. Later, at the end >> of >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> film, he faces his immediate death again, and the m-perezhivanie is >>>>>>> expressed as: ?I'm really worried that I might die in my sleep, and >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> would frighten my little son?. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Well, just some thoughts after watching this wonderful film. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Marc. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2017-01-15 0:06 GMT+01:00 Christopher Schuck < >> schuckcschuck@gmail.com >>>>>>>> : >>>>>>> Yes, definitely that article! And specifically, when I used >> "pivoting" >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> couldn't help but think of Beth's earlier example about how a child >>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>> use a stick as a pivot for a horse. Perhaps a somewhat different >>>>>>>> application but related, no? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 4:06 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < >>>>>>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Chris, all, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> your post is totally relevant to Beth's and Monica's article in the >>>>>>>>> special issue. They write about film and perezhivanie (quoting >>>>>>>>> Sobchack) >>>>>>>>> the following: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The reason that film allows us to glimpse the future is that there >>>>>>>>> is a >>>>>>>>> connection between filmic time and ?real? time: ?The images of a >> film >>>>>>>>> exist >>>>>>>> in the world as a temporal flow, within finitude and situation. >>>>>>>>> Indeed, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> fascination of the film is that it does not transcend our >>>>>>>>> lived-experience >>>>>>>> of temporality, but rather that it seems to partake of it, to share >>>>>>>>> it? >>>>>>>>> (1992, p. 60). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> And later >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> "Specifically, the way that the flow of time becomes >>>>>>>>> multidirectional is >>>>>>>>> that ?rehearsals make it necessary to think of the future in such a >>>>>>>>> way >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>> to create a past? (1985, p. 39). As Schechner ex-plains: ?In a very >>>>>>>>> real >>>>>>>>> way the future ? the project coming into existence through the >>>>>>>>> process >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> rehearsal ? determines the past: what will be kept from earlier >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> rehearsals >>>>>>>> or from the ?source ma-terials? (1985, p. 39)." >>>>>>>>> Alfredo >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> >>>>>>>> du> >>>>>>>>> on behalf of Christopher Schuck >>>>>>>>> Sent: 14 January 2017 21:43 >>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fate of a Man >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> But that's both the limitation and strength of art or fictional >>>>>>>>> narrative >>>>>>>>> as opposed to real life, isn't it? That art focuses our attention >> and >>>>>>>>> highlights certain features in a way that is idealized and >>>>>>>>> artificially >>>>>>>>> "designed" to convey something more clearly and purely (but less >>>>>>>>> organically and authentically) than it would be conveyed in the >>>>>>>>> course >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> living it, or observing someone else living it? One way to get >> around >>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>> would be, as David says, to analyze the film in terms of clues as to >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> stages of emergence. But maybe another way to use the film would be >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> view >>>>>>>> it not so much as a complete, self-sufficient "example" of >>>>>>>>> perezhivanie, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>> a *tool *for pivoting back and forth between the concept of >>>>>>>>> perezhivanie >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>> imaginatively constructed (through fiction), and the concept of >>>>>>>>> perezhivanie as imaginatively constructed (through our real living >>>>>>>>> experience and observation of it). So, it would be the *pivoting* >>>>>>>>> between >>>>>>>>> these two manifestations of the concept (designed vs. evolved, as >>>>>>>>> David >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> put >>>>>>>> it) that reveals new insights about perezhivanie, rather than >>>>>>>>> understanding >>>>>>>> the concept from the film per se. >>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 3:08 PM, David Kellogg < >> dkellogg60@gmail.com >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I think there's a good reason why Andy started a new thread on >> this: >>>>>>>>> he's a >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> very tidy thinker (quite unlike yours truly) and he knows that one >>>>>>>>>> reason >>>>>>>>> why xmca threads are seldom cumulative is that they digress to >>>>>>>>> related >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> problems without solving the immmediate ones. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Yes, of course, a film allows us to consider an example of >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> "perezhivanie", >>>>>>>>> but it is a designed perezhivanie rather than an evolved one; it >>>>>>>>>> doesn't >>>>>>>>> explicitly display the various stages of emergence required for a >>>>>>>>> genetic >>>>>>>>> analysis, unless we analyze it not as a complete and finished work >> of >>>>>>>>> art >>>>>>>>> but instead for clues as to the stages of its creation (the way >> that, >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> example, "Quietly Flows the Don" was analyzed to determine its >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> authenticity). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I remember that In the original short story, the schnapps drinking >>>>>>>>>> scene seemed like pure sleight of hand: an artistically gratuitous >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> example >>>>>>>>> of what eventually gave Soviet social realism such a bad name. >>>>>>>>>> David Kellogg >>>>>>>>>> Macquarie University >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 10:04 PM, Carol Macdonald < >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> carolmacdon@gmail.com >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Fellow XMCa-ers >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I have watched it through now, thank you Andy, but right now only >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> empirical >>>>>>>>>> psychological categories come to mind. I will watch it again and >> in >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> meanwhile let my fellows with more recent experience of >>>>>>>>>> /perezhivanie/ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> take >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> the discussion further. >>>>>>>>>>> It is a kind of timeless story, and modern film techniques would >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> perhaps >>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> more explicit. At the least I would say it has for me a Russian >>>>>>>>>>> understanding of suffering, perhaps because of their unique >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> experience >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> it. But having said that, WWII must have generated other similar >>>>>>>>>>> experiences, apart from the first part about Andrei's family >> dying >>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> famine. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Carol >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 14 January 2017 at 02:15, Andy Blunden >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I watched it in two parts with subtitles: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16w7fg_destiny-of-a-man- >>>>>>>>>>>> 1959-pt-1_creation >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16wat4_destiny-of-a-man- >>>>>>>>>>>> 1959-pt-2_creation >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Andy >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>>>>>>>> Andy Blunden >>>>>>>>>>>> http://home.mira.net/~andy >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective- >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> decision-making >>>>>>>>>> On 14/01/2017 2:35 AM, Beth Ferholt wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for taking us to a shared example. I think that >>>>>>>>>>>>> having a >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> Carol A Macdonald Ph.D (Edin) >>>>>>>>>>> Cultural Historical Activity Theory >>>>>>>>>>> Honorary Research Fellow: Department of Linguistics, Unisa >>>>>>>>>>> alternative email address: tmacdoca@unisa.ac.za >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >> -- >> Beth Ferholt >> Assistant Professor >> Department of Early Childhood and Art Education >> Brooklyn College, City University of New York >> 2900 Bedford Avenue >> Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 >> >> Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu >> Phone: (718) 951-5205 >> Fax: (718) 951-4816 >> > From lpscholar2@gmail.com Mon Feb 6 06:02:01 2017 From: lpscholar2@gmail.com (lpscholar2@gmail.com) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 06:02:01 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Perezhivanie and Organic In-Reply-To: References: <5893695b.c32f630a.3d640.41ee@mx.google.com> <58975ff5.8e3f630a.4fc2a.5fd5@mx.google.com> <5897c892.d348620a.eb223.9306@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5898820b.11d9630a.426eb.6166@mx.google.com> Mike, This kind of education, theory, service, you are seeking to articulate which ?chos the orientation embedded in the key words of the article (methodology for a concrete psychology?: The fifth dimension project) that you, Elias Kobelt, and Martin Packer wrote. The key words were?: *concrete psychology *diversity *inclusion *methodology Also the word ?organ? can be highlighted in your opening introduction to what is ?concrete psychology??: What is needed (instead of experimental methods) is an approach or orientation surmounting ?academicism? in psychology. What is needed is?: A move to a completely new TYPE of investigation, which, by virtue of some of the fundamental features of its ?object?, a (cultural-historical and evolving) object .... Must itself be implemented within the organized framework of some psychopractical action, or perhaps even some regular system of psychotechnical practice, SERVING AS AN ORGAN that makes possible the projection, realization, reproduction, and directed development of ?this? practice. Mike, this is the 1st paragraph of your article, and in this one paragragh I hear the theme that continues into todays calling providing for the kind of education, theory, and Service, that is rhetorical, but also moves beyond critique to explore concrete ?alternatives?. That moves beyond ?academicism? into the unmapped terrain. Opening paragraphs and key words as signalling what you seek in the present moment. A work unfolding through play Sent from my Windows 10 phone From: mike cole Sent: February 5, 2017 5:33 PM To: Larry Purss Cc: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity; Ana In?s Heras Subject: Re: [Xmca-l] Re: Perezhivanie and Organic Your comments put me very much in mind of the idea of "third spaces" as articulated by Kris Gutierrez, and a range of people she in turn draws upon.? In so far as that is the case, it opens up an avenue for linking this discussion to discourse in the critical learning sciences for whom Kris's idea of a social design experiment is one model of action. That work has generally provided the kind of education/theory/service(practice) view I was seeking to articulate. mike mike mike On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 4:50 PM, wrote: Mike, As I read Beth and Monica?s contribution to this months special article on perezhivanie, I was aware of a subtext I was trying to flesh out that included performance studies. This connection you offer between communications and performance studies? running through Dwight Conquergood and Patrick Anderson confirms my hunch. As you say you have to see a playworld performed to believe it. Until that moment there is a type of blindness (not seeing). This also fits with Michael?s expression that we must acknowledge that we are blind (NOT seeing) before we can see. We must acknowled our NOT knowing before we can know. ? Beth said we ?need to acknowledge what is mutual in exploring perezhivanie but she also called for acknowledging the differences within the various approaches, and that each individual article in this month?s journal may point to the necessity for its own special acknowledgement.? In this vein I pursued Beth?s acknowledging the NOT as negation and the not ...not as a doubling or negating the negation. ( i can Not see acknowleding blindness, doubling to acknowledging my blindness leading to NOT not being blind, meaning I can see. ? Claire Chambers in her book (Performance Studies and Negative Epistemology) traces apophasis as a tradition that adds to this way of acknowledging we are blind and unknowing. ? Claire does acknowledge Dwight Conquerwood and performance studies as exploring reception and encounter without domination while SERVING community and participation. The same ethic as Ana?s performance. The concern for efficacy in the creation of a ?liminal? experience is also about forging an ?alternative? space for community. This cultural performance emphasizing?: Mutuality, interdependence, and vulnerability. Claire says Conquerwood, by using performance as a paradigm for ethnography, ?resisted the dominant discourse in the field of anthropology, which prized accurate description and categorization instead of working to *open up* the interrelated lives of both ethnographer and subject.? By positioning the ethnographer as an actor, performing a role, a role the ethnographer vividly acknowledges she is performing, the ethnographer is able to engage her subjects as co-actors who collaborate in a fragile ?fiction?. The performance paradigm struggles for cultural authenticity rather than accuracy. Performance for Conquerwood is a cultural ?struggle? ? how to make meaning of the world, especially in the experience of disenfranchisement -that is shaped by the interdependence of self and other. ? Claire Chambers is here outlining the ?apophatic/ apophasis? undercurrent of performance studies that acknowledges the preference for liminal transformation and commitment to an ethical encounter with the other?: emphasizing mutuality, interdependence, and vulnerability. ? I have taken an extended turn, hoping to open this particular door (metaphor of the pivot) that we can walk through into this unmapped territory. Inspired by Beth and Monica?s contribution to perezhivanie and Michael?s appeal for acknowledging our blindness as a way of seeing. ? My turn is up. ? Sent from my Windows 10 phone ? From: mike cole Sent: February 5, 2017 10:07 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Perezhivanie and Organic ? It may be of interest, Larry, that performance studies play a significant role in the thinking of my colleagues in the Communication Department here.? So there is a thread of history that goes from Dwight Conquergood through Patrick Anderson who was on Beth's disseration committee. You have to see a playworld performed to believe it, as the expression goes. ? The need for undergraduates to *perform *the after-school activity called the Fifth Dimension was central both to the process of its reproduction over a couple of decades and to the education of the undergraduates who had to figure out how Dewey's ideas were, or were not, helpful in their efforts at star performances. ? mike mike ? On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 10:30 AM, wrote: ? > Another scholar of ?performance studies? is Richard Schechner who posits a > continuum for ?performance? that spans 5 categories: play, games, sports, > theatre, ritual. > Play is ?free?? where ritual is ?strictly? programmed or designed, while > games, sports and theatre MEDIATE between these extremes as more play-like > or more ritual-like. > This continuum is basically an elaboration of how performances are > variations on ?ritual? as an encompassing category. >? > This allows Schechner to extend the values of ritual into creation of > symbolic reality that pervades the analysis of other performance genres: > play, games, sports, ritual. >? > Shechner explains performance studies in the preface to his book > [Performance Studies: An Introduction]: >? > Performance studies ? as a practice, a theory, an academic discipline ? is > dynamic, UNFINISHABLE.? Whatever it is, it wasn?t exactly that before and > it won?t be exactly that again. >? > One dominant metaphor by which performance studies has been figured is > ?the unmapped terrain?. > This metaphor figures uncertainty,? ambiguity, navigating the > incomprehensible, the ungraspable, the unsaying at the heart of the > certain, the graspable, the comprehensible, the saying. >? > This unmapped terrain may be ??exhilarating? for those scholars and > persons who relish ?not knowing? that is hard to pin down. So too is the > study of ?performance? exhilarating and privileges open-ended questions. >? > The potential to illuminate, instruct, an inspire, is enhanced not > diminished by this ever present ?uncertainty?. Don?t try to fix performance > studies down is its central value and if you do the symbolic realm will > become a mere idol. >? > By insisting that performance studies cannot be fixed or defined, > performance studies is situated as a NEGATIVE discipline trafficking in > ?denials? and the unsaying of speech. >? > This gives a flavour of the way performance studies is posited in > apophatic terms of the unmapped terrain in the fashion of Schechner?s > explorations of the continuum of ritual, play, games, sports, theatre. >? > Beth and Monica exploring playworlds and perezhivanie can be put in > dialogue with Schechner. >? > I was channelling Claire Chambers above who is deeply engaged with this > performance thematic playing out through historical epochs and becoming > secularized in modern? performance studies. >? >? > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 >? > From: Edward Wall > Sent: February 4, 2017 4:10 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Perezhivanie and Organic >? > David >? >????? Yes, that was the difference I was noting. Vygotsky in the passages I > was reading seems to using ?organic? as denoting something ?natural,' while > Stanislavsky seemed to using it s somewhat more holistic fashion. >? > Ed >? > > On Feb 2, 2017, at? 3:01 PM, David Kellogg wrote: > > > > The Russian word that Vygotsky uses for "organic" is the same as the word > > we use, and I assume that the same thing is true of the word that > > Stanislavsky used. It is "organic" transliterated into Cyrillic, rather > > than translated into Russian. > > > > What really makes this problem new-thread-worthy is that the meaning of > the > > word "organic" at the end of the nineteenth century is not the same as > the > > word meaning that we use in several important ways. > > > > Take, for example, the crudest possible way: semantic prosody, or the > "good > > vibes" of some words (e.g. "organic food") vs. the "bad vibes" of others > > (e.g. "artificial flavor"). The nineteenth century began with a romantic > > movement towards nature and towards holism ("Gestaltism"), against > dogmatic > > rationalism and atomism. So "organicism" had a semantic prosody that > > involved not only naturalism (which it still does) but also a form of > > proto-structuralism. Organic structure involved a complex whole with > parts > > that are interdependent like organs and not independent like ball > bearings. > > > > Today, this semantic prosody falls on deaf ears. If anything, it's the > > other way around: we know all about cells, and we know that they are > > independant and dispensible in large numbers (you slough off millions > every > > day). But mechanical parts are precisely engineered to fit each other, > and > > for the want of one, the whole machine comes to a grinding halt. > > > > Nevertheless, we can still see this older meaning of organicism in > > Toennies' distinction between Gemeinschaft (community, mechanical > > solidarity) and Gesellschaft (society,organic solidarity) and also in the > > work of Bernsetin (workers have a mechanical solidarity based on likeness > > while middle class people have organic solidarity based on mutual > > instrumentality). > > > > (Of course, there's the same problem. Even working class families have an > > organic solidarity, while it is sometimes hard to believe that white > collar > > office workers sitting at computers in cubicles are anything bt > > mechanical....) > > > > David Kellogg > > Macquarie University > > > > On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 4:20 AM, Edward Wall wrote: > > > >> Stanislavisk seems to consider what is termed ?organic? in his taking up > >> of perezhivanie. Vygotsky also uses the term ?organic,? although as > near as > >> I can tell, without regard to perezhivanie. However, what seems to be > being > >> called ?organic? is very different (or so it seems) in these two cases. > Is > >> the Rusiian different? > >> > >> Ed Wall > >> > >>> On Feb 2, 2017, at? 11:15 AM, lpscholar2@gmail.com wrote: > >>> > >>> Beth and Monica explore the phenomena occurring in playworlds > generating > >> perezhivanie. > >>> > >>> Playworlds are performance worlds and these worlds may be exploring the > >> relation of ?unity? and ?difference?. > >>> > >>> Another term that may have relevance when Beth and Monica refer to > >> negating the negation is the operation of ?apophasis?. > >>> William Frank (On What Cannot Be Said) describes the apophatic : > >>> > >>> *In apophasis, which empties language of all positive content, absolute > >> difference cannot be distinguished from absolute unity, even though the > >> respective discourses of difference and unity nominally stand at the > >> antipodes. BOTH configurations, unity and difference, are exposed as > >> relatively arbitrary and, in the end, equally inadequate schemas for > >> articulating what cannot be said. (Franke) > >>> > >>> Claire Chambers in her book (Performance Studies and Negative > >> Epistemology) comments on the above Franke citation : > >>> > >>> *If unity and difference cannot be distinguished from one another (we > >> cannot KNOW what makes them distinct), then it is impossible to > determine > >> what either ?is? ? meaning that knowing and being, epistemology and > >> ontology, are also impossible to distinguish from one another.(Claire > >> Chambers Chapter 1) > >>> > >>> I am not sure how far to go with this theme of : Negating the negation? > >>> I hear this theme in playworlds. > >>> > >>> If this seems relevant, i can post the first chapter of Claire Chambers > >> book. I will just mention that Vygotsky?s Judaic childhood and > adolescence > >> would have encountered this apophatic ?tradition?. > >>> Enough for one probe or possible pivot? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Sent from my Windows 10 phone > >>> > >> > >> > >> >? >? >? >? ? From lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org Mon Feb 6 06:20:06 2017 From: lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org (Lois Holzman) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 09:20:06 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Perezhivanie and Organic In-Reply-To: References: <5893695b.c32f630a.3d640.41ee@mx.google.com> <58975ff5.8e3f630a.4fc2a.5fd5@mx.google.com> <9703F9CC-1B3F-45BD-8FB5-5372006B75AF@eastsideinstitute.org> Message-ID: I?ll take a stab at summarizing it later this week, Mike. Lois Holzman Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy 119 West 23 St, suite 902 New York, NY 10011 Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX Tel. +1.212.941.8906 x324 Fax +1.718.797.3966 lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org Social Media Facebook? | LinkedIn | Twitter Blogs Psychology Today | Psychology of Becoming | Mad in America Websites Lois Holzman | East Side?Institute | Performing the World All Stars Project > On Feb 5, 2017, at 6:42 PM, mike cole wrote: > > Your own work ought to provide an example of a long-standing program that > could serve as a model for people to consider, Lois. > mike > > On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 10:52 AM, Lois Holzman < > lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org> wrote: > >> Here are two links to two videos in which Richard Schechner addresses >> politics and performance studies. He is a pioneer and friend of performance >> activism. >> >> in 2012?https://vimeo.com/54675823 (begins >> around 57 minutes) >> in 2016?http://www.performingtheworld.org > performingtheworld.org/> click on PTW 2016 Plenary Part 1. It?s a >> conversation between Schechner, Ken Gergen, me and two inner city young >> women. The set up is long but interesting. The conversation begins with >> Schechner at around 20 min. >> >> Lois Holzman >> Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy >> 119 West 23 St, suite 902 >> New York, NY 10011 >> Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX >> Tel. +1.212.941.8906 x324 >> Fax +1.718.797.3966 >> lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org >> Social Media >> Facebook | LinkedIn > %20linkedin.com/pub/lois-holzman> | Twitter > LoisHolzman> >> Blogs >> Psychology Today > com/blog/conceptual-revolution>| Psychology of Becoming < >> http://loisholzman.org/> | Mad in America > author/lois/> >> Websites >> Lois Holzman | East Side Institute < >> http://eastsideinstitute.org/> | Performing the World > performingtheworld.org/> >> All Stars Project >> >> >> >>> On Feb 5, 2017, at 1:30 PM, lpscholar2@gmail.com wrote: >>> >>> Another scholar of ?performance studies? is Richard Schechner who posits >> a continuum for ?performance? that spans 5 categories: play, games, sports, >> theatre, ritual. >>> Play is ?free? where ritual is ?strictly? programmed or designed, while >> games, sports and theatre MEDIATE between these extremes as more play-like >> or more ritual-like. >>> This continuum is basically an elaboration of how performances are >> variations on ?ritual? as an encompassing category. >>> >>> This allows Schechner to extend the values of ritual into creation of >> symbolic reality that pervades the analysis of other performance genres: >> play, games, sports, ritual. >>> >>> Shechner explains performance studies in the preface to his book >> [Performance Studies: An Introduction]: >>> >>> Performance studies ? as a practice, a theory, an academic discipline ? >> is dynamic, UNFINISHABLE. Whatever it is, it wasn?t exactly that before >> and it won?t be exactly that again. >>> >>> One dominant metaphor by which performance studies has been figured is >> ?the unmapped terrain?. >>> This metaphor figures uncertainty, ambiguity, navigating the >> incomprehensible, the ungraspable, the unsaying at the heart of the >> certain, the graspable, the comprehensible, the saying. >>> >>> This unmapped terrain may be ??exhilarating? for those scholars and >> persons who relish ?not knowing? that is hard to pin down. So too is the >> study of ?performance? exhilarating and privileges open-ended questions. >>> >>> The potential to illuminate, instruct, an inspire, is enhanced not >> diminished by this ever present ?uncertainty?. Don?t try to fix performance >> studies down is its central value and if you do the symbolic realm will >> become a mere idol. >>> >>> By insisting that performance studies cannot be fixed or defined, >> performance studies is situated as a NEGATIVE discipline trafficking in >> ?denials? and the unsaying of speech. >>> >>> This gives a flavour of the way performance studies is posited in >> apophatic terms of the unmapped terrain in the fashion of Schechner?s >> explorations of the continuum of ritual, play, games, sports, theatre. >>> >>> Beth and Monica exploring playworlds and perezhivanie can be put in >> dialogue with Schechner. >>> >>> I was channelling Claire Chambers above who is deeply engaged with this >> performance thematic playing out through historical epochs and becoming >> secularized in modern performance studies. >>> >>> >>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10 >>> >>> From: Edward Wall >>> Sent: February 4, 2017 4:10 PM >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Perezhivanie and Organic >>> >>> David >>> >>> Yes, that was the difference I was noting. Vygotsky in the passages >> I was reading seems to using ?organic? as denoting something ?natural,' >> while Stanislavsky seemed to using it s somewhat more holistic fashion. >>> >>> Ed >>> >>>> On Feb 2, 2017, at 3:01 PM, David Kellogg >> wrote: >>>> >>>> The Russian word that Vygotsky uses for "organic" is the same as the >> word >>>> we use, and I assume that the same thing is true of the word that >>>> Stanislavsky used. It is "organic" transliterated into Cyrillic, rather >>>> than translated into Russian. >>>> >>>> What really makes this problem new-thread-worthy is that the meaning of >> the >>>> word "organic" at the end of the nineteenth century is not the same as >> the >>>> word meaning that we use in several important ways. >>>> >>>> Take, for example, the crudest possible way: semantic prosody, or the >> "good >>>> vibes" of some words (e.g. "organic food") vs. the "bad vibes" of others >>>> (e.g. "artificial flavor"). The nineteenth century began with a romantic >>>> movement towards nature and towards holism ("Gestaltism"), against >> dogmatic >>>> rationalism and atomism. So "organicism" had a semantic prosody that >>>> involved not only naturalism (which it still does) but also a form of >>>> proto-structuralism. Organic structure involved a complex whole with >> parts >>>> that are interdependent like organs and not independent like ball >> bearings. >>>> >>>> Today, this semantic prosody falls on deaf ears. If anything, it's the >>>> other way around: we know all about cells, and we know that they are >>>> independant and dispensible in large numbers (you slough off millions >> every >>>> day). But mechanical parts are precisely engineered to fit each other, >> and >>>> for the want of one, the whole machine comes to a grinding halt. >>>> >>>> Nevertheless, we can still see this older meaning of organicism in >>>> Toennies' distinction between Gemeinschaft (community, mechanical >>>> solidarity) and Gesellschaft (society,organic solidarity) and also in >> the >>>> work of Bernsetin (workers have a mechanical solidarity based on >> likeness >>>> while middle class people have organic solidarity based on mutual >>>> instrumentality). >>>> >>>> (Of course, there's the same problem. Even working class families have >> an >>>> organic solidarity, while it is sometimes hard to believe that white >> collar >>>> office workers sitting at computers in cubicles are anything bt >>>> mechanical....) >>>> >>>> David Kellogg >>>> Macquarie University >>>> >>>> On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 4:20 AM, Edward Wall wrote: >>>> >>>>> Stanislavisk seems to consider what is termed ?organic? in his taking >> up >>>>> of perezhivanie. Vygotsky also uses the term ?organic,? although as >> near as >>>>> I can tell, without regard to perezhivanie. However, what seems to be >> being >>>>> called ?organic? is very different (or so it seems) in these two >> cases. Is >>>>> the Rusiian different? >>>>> >>>>> Ed Wall >>>>> >>>>>> On Feb 2, 2017, at 11:15 AM, lpscholar2@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Beth and Monica explore the phenomena occurring in playworlds >> generating >>>>> perezhivanie. >>>>>> >>>>>> Playworlds are performance worlds and these worlds may be exploring >> the >>>>> relation of ?unity? and ?difference?. >>>>>> >>>>>> Another term that may have relevance when Beth and Monica refer to >>>>> negating the negation is the operation of ?apophasis?. >>>>>> William Frank (On What Cannot Be Said) describes the apophatic : >>>>>> >>>>>> *In apophasis, which empties language of all positive content, >> absolute >>>>> difference cannot be distinguished from absolute unity, even though the >>>>> respective discourses of difference and unity nominally stand at the >>>>> antipodes. BOTH configurations, unity and difference, are exposed as >>>>> relatively arbitrary and, in the end, equally inadequate schemas for >>>>> articulating what cannot be said. (Franke) >>>>>> >>>>>> Claire Chambers in her book (Performance Studies and Negative >>>>> Epistemology) comments on the above Franke citation : >>>>>> >>>>>> *If unity and difference cannot be distinguished from one another (we >>>>> cannot KNOW what makes them distinct), then it is impossible to >> determine >>>>> what either ?is? ? meaning that knowing and being, epistemology and >>>>> ontology, are also impossible to distinguish from one another.(Claire >>>>> Chambers Chapter 1) >>>>>> >>>>>> I am not sure how far to go with this theme of : Negating the >> negation? >>>>>> I hear this theme in playworlds. >>>>>> >>>>>> If this seems relevant, i can post the first chapter of Claire >> Chambers >>>>> book. I will just mention that Vygotsky?s Judaic childhood and >> adolescence >>>>> would have encountered this apophatic ?tradition?. >>>>>> Enough for one probe or possible pivot? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my Windows 10 phone >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> From lpscholar2@gmail.com Mon Feb 6 06:39:02 2017 From: lpscholar2@gmail.com (lpscholar2@gmail.com) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 06:39:02 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Perezhivanie and Organic In-Reply-To: References: <5893695b.c32f630a.3d640.41ee@mx.google.com> <58975ff5.8e3f630a.4fc2a.5fd5@mx.google.com> <9703F9CC-1B3F-45BD-8FB5-5372006B75AF@eastsideinstitute.org> Message-ID: <58988ab9.437c630a.b7180.686c@mx.google.com> Lois, Thank you for the link to you, Richard, and Ken, on stage with the new generation. The scene where Ken asks you to extend your hand and then he responds within four differing ?()? ? frames ? was thought provoking. His way of understanding how each frame ?changed? who you were as his ?()? and your rejoinder within your ?()?. So... Relation itself means multiple ?()? within ?()?. I recommend watching this video that engages the understanding of performance studies Sent from my Windows 10 phone From: Lois Holzman Sent: February 6, 2017 6:23 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Perezhivanie and Organic I?ll take a stab at summarizing it later this week, Mike. Lois Holzman Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy 119 West 23 St, suite 902 New York, NY 10011 Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX Tel. +1.212.941.8906 x324 Fax +1.718.797.3966 lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org Social Media Facebook? | LinkedIn | Twitter Blogs Psychology Today | Psychology of Becoming | Mad in America Websites Lois Holzman | East Side?Institute | Performing the World All Stars Project > On Feb 5, 2017, at 6:42 PM, mike cole wrote: > > Your own work ought to provide an example of a long-standing program that > could serve as a model for people to consider, Lois. > mike > > On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 10:52 AM, Lois Holzman < > lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org> wrote: > >> Here are two links to two videos in which Richard Schechner addresses >> politics and performance studies. He is a pioneer and friend of performance >> activism. >> >> in 2012?https://vimeo.com/54675823 (begins >> around 57 minutes) >> in 2016?http://www.performingtheworld.org > performingtheworld.org/> click on PTW 2016 Plenary Part 1. It?s a >> conversation between Schechner, Ken Gergen, me and two inner city young >> women. The set up is long but interesting. The conversation begins with >> Schechner at around 20 min. >> >> Lois Holzman >> Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy >> 119 West 23 St, suite 902 >> New York, NY 10011 >> Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX >> Tel. +1.212.941.8906 x324 >> Fax +1.718.797.3966 >> lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org >> Social Media >> Facebook | LinkedIn > %20linkedin.com/pub/lois-holzman> | Twitter > LoisHolzman> >> Blogs >> Psychology Today > com/blog/conceptual-revolution>| Psychology of Becoming < >> http://loisholzman.org/> | Mad in America > author/lois/> >> Websites >> Lois Holzman | East Side Institute < >> http://eastsideinstitute.org/> | Performing the World > performingtheworld.org/> >> All Stars Project >> >> >> >>> On Feb 5, 2017, at 1:30 PM, lpscholar2@gmail.com wrote: >>> >>> Another scholar of ?performance studies? is Richard Schechner who posits >> a continuum for ?performance? that spans 5 categories: play, games, sports, >> theatre, ritual. >>> Play is ?free? where ritual is ?strictly? programmed or designed, while >> games, sports and theatre MEDIATE between these extremes as more play-like >> or more ritual-like. >>> This continuum is basically an elaboration of how performances are >> variations on ?ritual? as an encompassing category. >>> >>> This allows Schechner to extend the values of ritual into creation of >> symbolic reality that pervades the analysis of other performance genres: >> play, games, sports, ritual. >>> >>> Shechner explains performance studies in the preface to his book >> [Performance Studies: An Introduction]: >>> >>> Performance studies ? as a practice, a theory, an academic discipline ? >> is dynamic, UNFINISHABLE. Whatever it is, it wasn?t exactly that before >> and it won?t be exactly that again. >>> >>> One dominant metaphor by which performance studies has been figured is >> ?the unmapped terrain?. >>> This metaphor figures uncertainty, ambiguity, navigating the >> incomprehensible, the ungraspable, the unsaying at the heart of the >> certain, the graspable, the comprehensible, the saying. >>> >>> This unmapped terrain may be ??exhilarating? for those scholars and >> persons who relish ?not knowing? that is hard to pin down. So too is the >> study of ?performance? exhilarating and privileges open-ended questions. >>> >>> The potential to illuminate, instruct, an inspire, is enhanced not >> diminished by this ever present ?uncertainty?. Don?t try to fix performance >> studies down is its central value and if you do the symbolic realm will >> become a mere idol. >>> >>> By insisting that performance studies cannot be fixed or defined, >> performance studies is situated as a NEGATIVE discipline trafficking in >> ?denials? and the unsaying of speech. >>> >>> This gives a flavour of the way performance studies is posited in >> apophatic terms of the unmapped terrain in the fashion of Schechner?s >> explorations of the continuum of ritual, play, games, sports, theatre. >>> >>> Beth and Monica exploring playworlds and perezhivanie can be put in >> dialogue with Schechner. >>> >>> I was channelling Claire Chambers above who is deeply engaged with this >> performance thematic playing out through historical epochs and becoming >> secularized in modern performance studies. >>> >>> >>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10 >>> >>> From: Edward Wall >>> Sent: February 4, 2017 4:10 PM >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Perezhivanie and Organic >>> >>> David >>> >>> Yes, that was the difference I was noting. Vygotsky in the passages >> I was reading seems to using ?organic? as denoting something ?natural,' >> while Stanislavsky seemed to using it s somewhat more holistic fashion. >>> >>> Ed >>> >>>> On Feb 2, 2017, at 3:01 PM, David Kellogg >> wrote: >>>> >>>> The Russian word that Vygotsky uses for "organic" is the same as the >> word >>>> we use, and I assume that the same thing is true of the word that >>>> Stanislavsky used. It is "organic" transliterated into Cyrillic, rather >>>> than translated into Russian. >>>> >>>> What really makes this problem new-thread-worthy is that the meaning of >> the >>>> word "organic" at the end of the nineteenth century is not the same as >> the >>>> word meaning that we use in several important ways. >>>> >>>> Take, for example, the crudest possible way: semantic prosody, or the >> "good >>>> vibes" of some words (e.g. "organic food") vs. the "bad vibes" of others >>>> (e.g. "artificial flavor"). The nineteenth century began with a romantic >>>> movement towards nature and towards holism ("Gestaltism"), against >> dogmatic >>>> rationalism and atomism. So "organicism" had a semantic prosody that >>>> involved not only naturalism (which it still does) but also a form of >>>> proto-structuralism. Organic structure involved a complex whole with >> parts >>>> that are interdependent like organs and not independent like ball >> bearings. >>>> >>>> Today, this semantic prosody falls on deaf ears. If anything, it's the >>>> other way around: we know all about cells, and we know that they are >>>> independant and dispensible in large numbers (you slough off millions >> every >>>> day). But mechanical parts are precisely engineered to fit each other, >> and >>>> for the want of one, the whole machine comes to a grinding halt. >>>> >>>> Nevertheless, we can still see this older meaning of organicism in >>>> Toennies' distinction between Gemeinschaft (community, mechanical >>>> solidarity) and Gesellschaft (society,organic solidarity) and also in >> the >>>> work of Bernsetin (workers have a mechanical solidarity based on >> likeness >>>> while middle class people have organic solidarity based on mutual >>>> instrumentality). >>>> >>>> (Of course, there's the same problem. Even working class families have >> an >>>> organic solidarity, while it is sometimes hard to believe that white >> collar >>>> office workers sitting at computers in cubicles are anything bt >>>> mechanical....) >>>> >>>> David Kellogg >>>> Macquarie University >>>> >>>> On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 4:20 AM, Edward Wall wrote: >>>> >>>>> Stanislavisk seems to consider what is termed ?organic? in his taking >> up >>>>> of perezhivanie. Vygotsky also uses the term ?organic,? although as >> near as >>>>> I can tell, without regard to perezhivanie. However, what seems to be >> being >>>>> called ?organic? is very different (or so it seems) in these two >> cases. Is >>>>> the Rusiian different? >>>>> >>>>> Ed Wall >>>>> >>>>>> On Feb 2, 2017, at 11:15 AM, lpscholar2@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Beth and Monica explore the phenomena occurring in playworlds >> generating >>>>> perezhivanie. >>>>>> >>>>>> Playworlds are performance worlds and these worlds may be exploring >> the >>>>> relation of ?unity? and ?difference?. >>>>>> >>>>>> Another term that may have relevance when Beth and Monica refer to >>>>> negating the negation is the operation of ?apophasis?. >>>>>> William Frank (On What Cannot Be Said) describes the apophatic : >>>>>> >>>>>> *In apophasis, which empties language of all positive content, >> absolute >>>>> difference cannot be distinguished from absolute unity, even though the >>>>> respective discourses of difference and unity nominally stand at the >>>>> antipodes. BOTH configurations, unity and difference, are exposed as >>>>> relatively arbitrary and, in the end, equally inadequate schemas for >>>>> articulating what cannot be said. (Franke) >>>>>> >>>>>> Claire Chambers in her book (Performance Studies and Negative >>>>> Epistemology) comments on the above Franke citation : >>>>>> >>>>>> *If unity and difference cannot be distinguished from one another (we >>>>> cannot KNOW what makes them distinct), then it is impossible to >> determine >>>>> what either ?is? ? meaning that knowing and being, epistemology and >>>>> ontology, are also impossible to distinguish from one another.(Claire >>>>> Chambers Chapter 1) >>>>>> >>>>>> I am not sure how far to go with this theme of : Negating the >> negation? >>>>>> I hear this theme in playworlds. >>>>>> >>>>>> If this seems relevant, i can post the first chapter of Claire >> Chambers >>>>> book. I will just mention that Vygotsky?s Judaic childhood and >> adolescence >>>>> would have encountered this apophatic ?tradition?. >>>>>> Enough for one probe or possible pivot? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my Windows 10 phone >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> From bferholt@gmail.com Mon Feb 6 10:33:07 2017 From: bferholt@gmail.com (Beth Ferholt) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 13:33:07 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fate of a Man In-Reply-To: References: <048522a2-cca0-3e56-cae2-f2142b9fbd5a@mira.net> <1484427999407.2877@iped.uio.no> <2270f5e7-7d82-5150-89a3-808a4e20b89b@mira.net> <9B8D2964-0926-4976-91F2-CDD51E50A6F5@gmail.com> Message-ID: That is a great quote from Vasilyuk, thank you Andy, and I agree, Chris, definitely some perezhivanie could come after the film Manchester ... but we don't see if it will or not. Beth On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 11:20 PM, Andy Blunden wrote: > Your post is so rich, Beth, .... Fedor Vasilyuk says, on the topic of > psychotherapy practice, that the very first thing a patient says when you > meet 'em should be what you work with. > > Unfortunately, the DVD of "Manchester" is not released here till February > 21. I'll certainly be watching it then though. > > Andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > http://home.mira.net/~andy > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making > On 6/02/2017 3:02 PM, Christopher Schuck wrote: > >> Beth, I really like your point at the beginning about how interruptions >> can >> help us understand perezhivanie. Perhaps you were only referring to >> specific kinds of interruptions (politics and children), but I am also >> reminded of the way that many stories and films are periodically >> "interrupted," as we return to the outer frame of the narrator and his >> listener who briefly pause to reflect on the story-in-progress before >> plunging back in. Notably, in Fate of a Man this does *not* happen; the >> outer narrative only bookends the main story at beginning and end. >> >> This was a very rich post, and I suspect that everyone will be picking it >> apart for quite some time. But two very quick thoughts. You write: "I >> think >> perezhivanie is about truth, somehow, although I am not sure how." Later: >> "we won't understand this process until we see children as full people. >> And >> simultaneously as children." (Unlike, for instance, in Fate of a Man.) >> Perhaps the relevance of truth to perezhivanie has something to do with >> the >> fact that people cannot genuinely co-create something in the sense of >> playmakers if one is deceiving the other? If the adult deliberately >> misleads the child for his own welfare (as in Life Is Beautiful), however >> ethical, there is a hierarchical relationship implied which would appear >> to >> be at odds with the spirit of shared perezhivanie. >> >> Second, re. Manchester By the Sea: I wonder if an alternate reading might >> be that perezhivanie *is* possible, but it has only barely started by the >> movie's end. I see any potential perezhivanie occurring not with the >> ex-wife, but with the teenager. Might the intimate way that they bicker >> and >> argue, and develop a distinctive rapport, have anything to do with this? >> The teenager seems to be teaching Casey Affleck something no one else can >> tell him....I'm not sure. >> >> Chris >> >> On Sunday, February 5, 2017, Beth Ferholt > > wrote: >> >> Thanks for the calling out to Monica and me, Mike and Andy -- I had to >>> stop >>> checking XMCA for a couple of weeks so I did not see the discussion or >>> your >>> notes to me in the chain, until today. One of the the strengths of XMCA >>> is >>> that it creates a conversation that can include people who can not always >>> respond that very day, or even week, due to various forms of >>> interruption! >>> Often these "interruptions" are children or political events, which can >>> help us to understand perezhivanie. >>> >>> As well as spending time at JFK, recently, many of us here in New York >>> have >>> been attending local protests to keep our neighborhoods feeling safe for >>> everyone. I live in a neighborhood in Brooklyn that includes several >>> Muslim communities and several Jewish communities (as well as a few >>> Russian >>> and Polish communities), and at the local protests these past few weeks >>> some people have had photographs of their family members who were killed >>> by >>> the Nazis attached to the back of their "never again" signs. Also we all, >>> Muslim, Jewish, etc. families, have been often bringing our children to >>> the protests. >>> >>> So I have been thinking a lot about children and hope, during the past >>> few >>> weeks. It is within this frame that I saw this film. I think the film >>> was >>> expecting us to see the child as only benefitting from the main >>> character's >>> lying, saying that he was the child's father, and of course the child did >>> benefit, but I think that perezhivanie is about truth, somehow, although >>> I >>> am not sure how. >>> >>> My second thought is that Manchester by the Sea must have been >>> referencing >>> this film, with its return-to-the-space-where-the-house-was scene, and >>> also >>> with the choice to replace the lost self (as father) / family or no. I >>> think it might help this conversation if we all saw both films, actually. >>> Two thoughts on this methods suggestion for our conversation, before I >>> return to the topic itself. >>> >>> 1) It is odd how closely the two films are related, as I did not know >>> that >>> the two films were related when I told Chris to see Manchester by the Sea >>> in relation to thinking about perezhivanie. I told Chris when I saw him >>> in >>> person, and I think that discussions about perezhivanie are often >>> different >>> in person. We learned at LCHC in the 2004/5 playworld projects that >>> these >>> in person discussions about perezhivanie have a pronounced proleptic >>> structure, mirroring the topic of study, such that the conclusion of the >>> discussion appears at the start: It feels like magic is happening. (I >>> think this has something to do with how good teachers see the things in >>> their classroom that are useful or no before they happen or "behind their >>> heads" ... when you are very present you have this "sixth sense," which >>> is >>> really an experience of time moving in two directions at once ... being >>> very present can often require a lot of in person time and being with >>> children speeds up the process.) >>> >>> 2) It is a strength that the XMCA conversations can continue through all >>> of >>> our different schedules. It is a negative that they are not in person, >>> and >>> seeing films together can really help. This is where we went on the >>> perezhivanie facebook page when it was briefly in English and in Russian >>> -- >>> with a film, and it was very helpful. (Of course I am thinking of this >>> while considering the changing role and form of LCHC and Mike's >>> participation in LCHC and XMCA. I am thinking of the mistakes that are >>> communication. A story about this that I thought of recently, which >>> shows >>> this point well, and seems worth retelling BECAUSE when studying >>> perezhivanie the form is often (always??) the study of the content: As a >>> newish graduate student Mike once said "thank you" to me when I made a >>> comment in the afternoon about an AM conversation that day. Mike's >>> "thank >>> you" encouraged me to pay extra attention to this comment/thought of >>> mine, >>> which later became important in our analysis of a difficult-to-decipher >>> playworld event. I was thinking of this event as I walked and talked >>> with >>> a doctoral student of my own -- I seem to have a heavily spacial memory >>> process and my student and I were walking through a doorway -- and I >>> suddenly realized that Mike could have been thanking me for holding the >>> door for him at this time in the past when his feedback was so important >>> to >>> me ... maybe he did not hear my comment, but just thanked me for holding >>> the door ... in fact it now appears to me that this was probably the >>> case!) >>> >>> The interesting thing to me about the above 2 points is the framing. It >>> IS >>> the "()" within the "()" that interests me. Maybe Framing is all >>> communication or all thought or consciousness ... Bateson? ... but I >>> think >>> we need to tackle framing head on when discussing perezhivanie. The two >>> films are very different in regards to framing, I think this is why they >>> are most interesting to think about together, but first I have two >>> citations for thinking about time that I use frequently in my writing on >>> perezhivanie. >>> >>> These seem worth repeating here, as this thinking about time in >>> space/time >>> seems to me to be thinking about framing ... the "()" makes us double >>> back >>> in time as we read -- : >>> >>> (As to Performance, Alfredo copied the Schechner quote above.) >>> >>> Dewey's relation of the notion of object to prolepsis (on XMCA): >>> Mike (2007) used the term ?temporally double sided? to describe this >>> phenomenon of growing back and towards the future and the past >>> simultaneously. >>> >>> What I am (still) thinking about, now, most often: >>> It is the juxtaposition of temporal double sidedness with stages that >>> creates perezhivanie. What Schechner argues is that this juxtaposition >>> provides the rhythm that allows us to raise ourselves up and hover, >>> suspended momentarily in a state of being simultaneously ourselves and >>> not >>> ourselves: our past and future selves (someone else). >>> >>> So my first point is about framing and my second is about children. The >>> Fate Of Man is all about the frames / "()". The stories are nested within >>> eachother, repeating themselves, maybe even sort of like a fractal, or >>> anyhow a spiral? I have some congenital prosopagnosia, getting worse as >>> I >>> age and definitely bad with a film like this. I kept thinking we were >>> back >>> at the ferry as the form of the conversation and context images repeated >>> themselves, as I could not recognize the face of the character who was >>> the >>> audience for our hero's story! Manchester by the Sea, on the other hand, >>> had no frames. We just jumped right in and rode it through. I only saw >>> Manchester once but do others think this is true? relevant? >>> >>> I think that the question of children's position in relation to adult >>> perezhivanie is central in both of these films. The children in both of >>> these films appear to want the main characters to try again at being >>> fathers. This is a critique of films about children -- I can not think >>> of >>> the name of the person who made this critique, but I can find it for >>> anyone >>> if needed -- : We adults often make films not about children but about >>> our >>> own childhoods. We make films about children who are no longer with us. >>> But is this really best for the films, as films are usually best when >>> they >>> are somehow in dialogue with their topic, this is a characteristic of the >>> medium, no? >>> >>> If you do not have some pretense, some playing again, you can not have >>> perezhivanie. But I think that Fate of Man is not about perezhivanie, >>> although in a different way than Manchester by the Sea is not about >>> perezhivanie. In Manchester by the Sea there is no other with whom to >>> perezhivanie because the main character and his former wife still love >>> each >>> other, or at lease he still loves her and she returns enough of the love >>> to >>> keep him loving her, and neither of them can pull the other up because >>> they >>> both hit bottom together and in the same story. In Fate of Man there is >>> is >>> no chance for perezhivanie because the other needs to be involved in some >>> honest way, or there is no dialogue. >>> >>> In Fate of Man the hero seems to me to be playing out his memory in the >>> real world. A child is not an other with whom one can ever perezhivanie. >>> This is not perezhivanie as there is no real world as a player, and this >>> is >>> why our hero's heart will fail him. He did not reach bottom and then >>> start >>> to pull himself up by connecting with another with great bravery. >>> Instead, >>> as he says himself, he just snapped -- he is now living in a dream. >>> >>> As Larry put it, above in this chain: "In other words, navigating through >>> the suffering and existential emptiness is not a hero?s journey." And >>> this >>> point is relevant, again, to our method for studying perezhivanie. I >>> don't >>> think we can manage this one on our own (XMCA), even as a group that >>> allows >>> for conversations over extended time periods. >>> >>> If form and content are related in this process, I'd say that we won't >>> understand this process until we see children as full people. And >>> simultaneously as children. Children have something to tell us about >>> this >>> process that no one else can tell us, and they are not going to tell us >>> this in a way that those of us who are researchers/scholars can listen, >>> without the bridge of the teacher voices. How to include these voices in >>> our research is key. And the answer has something to do with art, as >>> well >>> as with time and space. >>> >>> I am going to send this as it is long enough already, and then catch up >>> with the related chains after I do ... And I won't say more now, but I >>> agree with all the people who thought this was a great pick to start the >>> discussion. Many levels to discuss and I also found many aspects of the >>> film related to perezhivanie in many ways! Beth >>> >>> On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 11:51 PM, Andy Blunden >>> wrote: >>> >>> How about a documentary movie about the first Trump voter who dies as a >>>> result of repeal of Obama Care? That would be a perezhivanie within a >>>> perezhivanie! >>>> >>>> Andy >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> Andy Blunden >>>> http://home.mira.net/~andy >>>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making >>>> On 21/01/2017 12:03 PM, Helena Worthen wrote: >>>> >>>> I am late to this discussion, but I have been paying attention. I was >>>>> reluctant to expose myself to the emotional challenges of the film. I >>>>> >>>> knew >>> >>>> that between the majestic music, the stunning black and white images, >>>>> >>>> the >>> >>>> beautiful human faces and bodies (and some very ugly ones), and the >>>>> >>>> twists >>> >>>> of the story, I was going to be deeply moved. However, I have been >>>>> >>>> reading >>> >>>> two books by Svetlana Alexievich -- Voices from Chernobyl and Secondhand >>>>> Time - which tell equally heartbreaking, horrifying stories of >>>>> >>>> suffering. >>> >>>> Reading her work inclines me to place the film in the context of the >>>>> >>>> period >>> >>>> of deStalinization after Kruschev's 1956 speech to the 20th Congress of >>>>> >>>> the >>> >>>> CPSU, which gave the signal that it was permissible to begin to talk >>>>> >>>> freely >>> >>>> about Soviet history. It was a period of trying to build a story that >>>>> >>>> could >>> >>>> explain and honor, if not justify, the extreme suffering of the Soviet >>>>> people. This film seems to me to set out to accomplish that. So does >>>>> Alexievich's book, which is a compilation of interviews done between >>>>> >>>> 1991 >>> >>>> and 2012, with people who had something to say (good and bad) about the >>>>> Soviet regime and the experience of its dissolution. She got the 2015 >>>>> >>>> Nobel >>> >>>> Prize for this book. And I sense that Andy, or someone, is anticipating >>>>> that the US is going to have to produce some works of scholarship or >>>>> >>>> art, >>> >>>> or both, that attempt to explain what is happening now here in the US -- >>>>> for example, this afternoon, under President Trump. >>>>> >>>>> Helena Worthen >>>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com >>>>> Vietnam blog: helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>>>> >>>>> On Jan 19, 2017, at 4:00 PM, Christopher Schuck wrote: >>>>> >>>>> For some reason I couldn't see the subtitles showing up in Fate of a >>>>> Man >>>>> >>>>>> the first time, so I started to watch it dubbed in English instead. >>>>>> But >>>>>> the >>>>>> mannered Hollywood accents definitely were not exactly helping to >>>>>> >>>>> convey >>> >>>> the "real Russian soul" Robbins talks about! It felt like I was being >>>>>> asked >>>>>> to imagine Cary Grant inhabiting Andrei's perezhivanie-ing body. So, I >>>>>> started over with the subtitled version. >>>>>> >>>>>> Here are some quick initial reflections: wonderful movie, and in >>>>>> Andrei >>>>>> one >>>>>> of the more memorable characters I have seen. But I also found myself >>>>>> thinking how big a difference there is between watching a film on my >>>>>> 12-inch laptop with headphones (my only option at the moment), and >>>>>> sitting >>>>>> back and immersing yourself in a darkened theater or at least on a >>>>>> widescreen TV without any other distractions, allowing ourselves to >>>>>> >>>>> "fall >>> >>>> into this space" by virtue of our very awareness of the illusion >>>>>> generated >>>>>> by the frame, as Beth and Monica put it. This difference becomes even >>>>>> bigger if the screen you're viewing it on also enables you to quickly >>>>>> check >>>>>> email from time to time during the movie, as many people do these >>>>>> days. >>>>>> If >>>>>> we are to consider the film experience as a model (analogy?) for >>>>>> perezhivanie or even a certain kind of simulation of it, this effect >>>>>> >>>>> that >>> >>>> occurs when we lose ourselves in a film would be undermined by an >>>>>> especially small frame or poor viewing conditions. At what point does >>>>>> "the >>>>>> knowledge that the movement we experience is just an illusion" (p. 2 >>>>>> in >>>>>> their article) undermine the perezhivanie-like quality of film as >>>>>> >>>>> opposed >>> >>>> to forming an integral part of it? And, might the way distraction >>>>>> functions >>>>>> to undermine perezhivanie in the context of film in any way mirror how >>>>>> >>>>> we >>> >>>> "distract" ourselves in the course of living lives from conscious >>>>>> engagement with the perezhivanie we are otherwise undergoing? Is >>>>>> >>>>> viewing >>> >>>> a >>>>>> film on a 12-inch screen while checking email and calling it an >>>>>> "experience" in any way analogous to the self-deceptions and escapes >>>>>> we >>>>>> engage in during the course of either experience-as-struggle or >>>>>> experience-as-contemplation? I did not check email while watching Fate >>>>>> of a >>>>>> Man, by the way. Just in case you're wondering. >>>>>> >>>>>> As for the film itself: I was struck by the incidental way in which >>>>>> the >>>>>> earlier loss of his childhood family is introduced and acknowledged at >>>>>> the >>>>>> very outset, and how this contrasts with the dramatic ongoing >>>>>> perezhivanie >>>>>> that ensues going forward: it is as if this early loss is "taken for >>>>>> granted" as also part of the Russian experience. We are not privy to >>>>>> >>>>> any >>> >>>> perezhivanie he might have presumably undergone before that point; it >>>>>> >>>>> is >>> >>>> simply not "within the frame." At several points, I was reminded of >>>>>> Satyajit's World of Apu (last movie in his trilogy), where there was >>>>>> also a >>>>>> set of early losses and a relationship formed with a "son." Have any >>>>>> of >>>>>> you >>>>>> seen it? I think it would also be a good example of perezhivanie. >>>>>> >>>>>> I would not want to overemphasize the use of literary motifs, since >>>>>> Bondarchuk was presumably not making any references to the concept of >>>>>> perezhivanie as such. But there were several devices that evoked Beth >>>>>> >>>>> and >>> >>>> Monica's passage from To The Lighthouse ("Time stand still here"), and >>>>>> their metaphor of a life (or more specifically, a perezhivanie within >>>>>> a >>>>>> life) spiraling back over itself to bring two disparate moments into >>>>>> juxtaposition in a way such that "your life becomes three-dimensional >>>>>> again" (p. 2). One occurs in the various scenes when Andrei gazes up >>>>>> at >>>>>> the >>>>>> sky in reverie and all we see are clouds, or the scene where he lies >>>>>> in >>>>>> the >>>>>> grass after his first escape and the camera pans back as it becomes >>>>>> >>>>> very >>> >>>> quiet, leaving nothing but him swallowed up in the vastness of nature. >>>>>> There is a certain timeless quality to these scenes, a sense that he >>>>>> is >>>>>> momentarily transcending the linear temporal flow of his life as he >>>>>> either >>>>>> stands outside it and "stands still" in it. It could be a thousand >>>>>> >>>>> years >>> >>>> passing by in those clouds, or just the 17 years of his second phase; >>>>>> >>>>> it >>> >>>> suddenly doesn't matter. Another thing I noticed was the use of the two >>>>>> musical themes: the love song the accordionist plays for him and >>>>>> Irina, >>>>>> and >>>>>> the festive music incongruously piped in at the concentration camp >>>>>> >>>>> during >>> >>>> that amazing scene around Part 1, minute 45 where the prisoners are >>>>>> >>>>> being >>> >>>> marched in and the crematorium is going full blast down the road. At >>>>>> >>>>> some >>> >>>> point (I couldn't relocate it) Andrei has a flashback where he revisits >>>>>> the >>>>>> love song and his memories of Irina; then at minute 20 in Part 2, >>>>>> while >>>>>> processing his family's death after coming home from the war, he finds >>>>>> himself hearing the concentration camp song on the record player and >>>>>> is >>>>>> suddenly transported back to that traumatic experience. Yet he does >>>>>> not >>>>>> smash the record right away; he stares at it for a minute, almost as >>>>>> if >>>>>> he >>>>>> is resituating these two moments in relation to each other. >>>>>> >>>>>> Perhaps I am overanalyzing, but I found both these motifs to speak to >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> and Monica's examples in the way they bring two moments back into >>>>>> >>>>> contact >>> >>>> with each other. >>>>>> >>>>>> Finally, Mike and Andy's discussion in the Misha thread about the >>>>>> watching >>>>>> of a film functioning as perezhivanie for those viewers for whom it >>>>>> reflects and repeats their own experience, raises a question about the >>>>>> difference between extended perezhivanie and the personal re-enactment >>>>>> >>>>> of >>> >>>> one's perezhivanie within a much smaller time scale (the two or three >>>>>> hours >>>>>> spent watching the movie). I hope at some point we could delve more >>>>>> >>>>> into >>> >>>> this issue of time frame and time scale in various forms of >>>>>> >>>>> perezhivanie. >>> >>>> Chris >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 8:39 PM, Andy Blunden >>>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>> >>>> Thank you Marc! It was the third "plane" which was my intention in >>>>>> >>>>>>> providing "Fate of a Man" for discussion. You picked out what were >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> me >>>>>>> also the main (but by no means the only) instances of perezhivanija >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> this >>>>>>> movie. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It seems to me that Sokolov (the author) offers one perezhivanie in >>>>>>> particular as the main theme of the movie. At the beginning of the >>>>>>> movie, >>>>>>> the man and boy walk up the path to the camera and at the end of the >>>>>>> movie >>>>>>> they walk off together again. So this is the central theme. As you >>>>>>> >>>>>> say, >>> >>>> when Sokolov's family has all been killed, even his talented war-hero >>>>>>> son >>>>>>> who was going to be a famous mathematician, his life has become >>>>>>> meaningless. I really liked your reflections of Sokolov's reflections >>>>>>> too. >>>>>>> He sees the young orphan boy who, he discovers, has no family and >>>>>>> doesn't >>>>>>> even know what town he comes from, but is aimlessly living on pieces >>>>>>> >>>>>> of >>> >>>> rubbish. He sees that the two of them are in the same situation. So >>>>>>> after >>>>>>> some time mulling this over a they sit together in the truck, he lies >>>>>>> >>>>>> to >>> >>>> the boy and tells him that he is the boy's father, and they embrace. >>>>>>> >>>>>> But >>> >>>> the boy questions this and he reasserts his claim and the boy accepts >>>>>>> this. >>>>>>> The man is able to define a new meaning for his life; he has done >>>>>>> this >>>>>>> autonomously without the help of a therapist, but he still needs >>>>>>> another, >>>>>>> the boy, to embody that meaning. But he knows it is his own >>>>>>> invention. >>>>>>> The >>>>>>> boy on the other hand has to be made to believe it is true; he is not >>>>>>> sufficiently mature to manufacture this meaning himself, but as a >>>>>>> >>>>>> child >>> >>>> he >>>>>>> can be guided by an adult. As you say, Marc, it is very significant >>>>>>> >>>>>> when >>> >>>> Sokolov tells us how he is now, again, worried about his own death. >>>>>>> What if >>>>>>> I died in my sleep? that would be a shock for my son! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For me, this reflection causes me to look back on the man's whole >>>>>>> struggle >>>>>>> during the war: in the first phase he does not differentiate between >>>>>>> >>>>>> his >>> >>>> life as a father and husband and his life as a Soviet citizen - war is >>>>>>> his >>>>>>> duty and he is confident, as is everyone else, of victory. His >>>>>>> bravery >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> driving his truck to the front line under fire reflects the fact that >>>>>>> >>>>>> he >>> >>>> has never imagined his own death. Then he finds himself prostrate >>>>>>> before 2 >>>>>>> Nazi soldiers who we assume are going among the wounded shooting >>>>>>> >>>>>> anyone >>> >>>> who >>>>>>> has survived. But surprisingly, he is allowed to live, but is to be >>>>>>> used as >>>>>>> a slave. Sokolov has been confronted by his own mortality for the >>>>>>> >>>>>> first >>> >>>> time and he chooses life, but accepts slavery (Sartre and Hegel both >>>>>>> thematize this moment in their philosophy). In this second phase of >>>>>>> Sokolov's life he is a survivor. Everything hinges on surviving and >>>>>>> returning to his wife and family. As you point out, Marc, his later >>>>>>> reflections on this are particularly poignant, when he discovers the >>>>>>> futility of this hope. Eventually, the life of forced labour becomes >>>>>>> unbearable. He cries out: "Why are we forced to dig 3 cubic metres >>>>>>> >>>>>> when >>> >>>> 1 >>>>>>> cubic meter is enough for a grave!" Sokolov has accepted and embraced >>>>>>> death >>>>>>> after all. (Transition to the third phase.) To his German masters >>>>>>> this >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> an unendurable act of defiance. As David points out, there are flaws >>>>>>> >>>>>> in >>> >>>> the >>>>>>> scene which follows, but ... he confronts his own death defiantly, >>>>>>> stares >>>>>>> it in the eye, spits on it, and his life again gains meaning as a >>>>>>> >>>>>> "brave >>> >>>> Soviet soldier" unafraid of death even in such an impossible moment. >>>>>>> >>>>>> Not >>> >>>> only does he survive, but takes the Nazi Colonel prisoner and hands >>>>>>> >>>>>> the >>> >>>> war >>>>>>> plans over to the Red Army. Now, when he is offered the chance to >>>>>>> return to >>>>>>> his wife as a war hero he declines and asks to be sent back to the >>>>>>> front. >>>>>>> His life has adopted this new meaning which casts his life as a >>>>>>> father >>>>>>> into >>>>>>> the shade. He no longer fears death. But he is persuaded to take time >>>>>>> off >>>>>>> and learns of the death of his family. As Marc relates, the continued >>>>>>> survival of his son, who is now also a war hero, provides continued >>>>>>> meaning >>>>>>> and integrates the two themes in his life. This takes work, as Marc >>>>>>> points >>>>>>> out, and he has the assistance of an older man, in achieving this >>>>>>> redefinition of his life. But tragically, with the death of his son >>>>>>> (and NB >>>>>>> the end of the war, albeit in victory) his life is again without >>>>>>> meaning. >>>>>>> Fourth phase. He has survived, but has no purpose. By becoming a >>>>>>> >>>>>> father >>> >>>> again (Fifth phase), he regains the fear of death and meaning in his >>>>>>> life. >>>>>>> It is real work, and we witness this psychological turmoil as he >>>>>>> copes >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> the idea that this scruffy orphan boy could be a son to him, and >>>>>>> eventually >>>>>>> he manages it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The transition between each phase is a critical period during which >>>>>>> Sokolov's personality is transformed. Note also, that there is a >>>>>>> premonition of this perezhivanie in Sokolov's earlier life: his >>>>>>> family >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> wiped out in the Civil War and the famine of 1922, then he meets his >>>>>>> wife-to-be, also raised in an orphanage, and they together create a >>>>>>> >>>>>> life >>> >>>> and have 17 happy years before the Nazi invasion intrudes. So from the >>>>>>> beginning of the movie we are introduced to the main theme. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> These are the main moments in the movie, which caused me to select it >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> discussion rather than any other movie. Also, there is no doubt that >>>>>>> >>>>>> in >>> >>>> producing this movie in 1958 the Soviet government was engaged with >>>>>>> >>>>>> its >>> >>>> people, in a process of collective perezhivanie and by reflecting on >>>>>>> >>>>>> the >>> >>>> collective perezhivanie during the period of the war, before and >>>>>>> >>>>>> after, >>> >>>> they aim to assist the people in collectively assigning meaning to >>>>>>> >>>>>> this >>> >>>> terrible suffering and like the man and his "son" walking again into >>>>>>> >>>>>> the >>> >>>> future. As a propaganda movie, of course, it is open to much >>>>>>> >>>>>> criticism, >>> >>>> but >>>>>>> that is hardly the point. I appreciate Marc's analysis in terms of >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> other concepts he has introduced. I wouldn't mind a recap on these. >>>>>>> In >>>>>>> terms of Vasilyuk's concepts, Sokolov's life-world is *simple and >>>>>>> difficult*. The boy's life world is *simple and easy*. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Can we continue to discuss "Fate of a Man", while I open another >>>>>>> movie >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> analysis? I think there are at least 10 subscribers to this list who >>>>>>> have >>>>>>> published in learned journals on the topic of perezhivanie in >>>>>>> >>>>>> childhood. >>> >>>> Perhaps one of you would like to reflect on the boy's perezhivanija? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Andy >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>>> Andy Blunden >>>>>>> http://home.mira.net/~andy >>>>>>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decisi >>>>>>> on-making >>>>>>> On 18/01/2017 5:14 AM, Marc Clar? wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> and thank you, Andy, for sharing this amazing film, which I didn't >>>>>>>> know. I >>>>>>>> think it will be very useful to share and discuss our respective >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> views >>> >>>> on >>>>>>>> perezhivanie. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In my view, the film could be analyzed in terms of perezhivanie in >>>>>>>> three >>>>>>>> different planes. First, we could consider the person who watches >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> film, >>>>>>>> and we could study how the meaning she forms for the film >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> restructures >>> >>>> her >>>>>>>> relationship with aspects of her real life -such as, for example, >>>>>>>> her >>>>>>>> own >>>>>>>> death or the death of a beloved one, etc. (perhaps this is a little >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> bit >>> >>>> like what Beth and Monica, or Veresov and Fleer, do with their study >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> of >>> >>>> playworlds?). In this plane, which would be perhaps the most >>>>>>>> naturalistic >>>>>>>> one, the film could be studied as an human-made cultural artifact >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> which >>> >>>> restuctures psychological functions; here, the meaning formed for the >>>>>>>> film >>>>>>>> by who watches it and uses it as mediator in her relation to her >>>>>>>> real >>>>>>>> life >>>>>>>> would be an m-perezhivanie. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In a second plane, we could proceed as if the film was real life, >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>> could consider Sokolov telling his story to the man he meets by the >>>>>>>> river >>>>>>>> (a little bit like Carla telling her story to me). In this plane, >>>>>>>> Sokolov's >>>>>>>> narrative (i.e., what is showed to us as narrated flashback) could >>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>> considered as a cultural artifact that Sokolov uses to relate to all >>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>> happened to him. At this plane, the meaning of this narrative would >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> be >>> >>>> the >>>>>>>> m-perezhivanie that, in that moment, mediates the relationship >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> between >>> >>>> Sokolov and the war events he experienced years ago (but these events >>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>> still very present to him, so although relating to past events, >>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> here a Sokolov's activity [towards the past war events] which is in >>>>>>>> present >>>>>>>> -this echoes Christopher when, within our conversations, said: ?Part >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> of >>> >>>> this might also be a question of what it means to describe and >>>>>>>> represent >>>>>>>> one's own perezhivanie figuratively/narratively (whether to others, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> or >>> >>>> to >>>>>>>> oneself), as opposed to living that perezhivanie. Especially if the >>>>>>>> attempt >>>>>>>> to capture/represent one's own perezhivanie is, perhaps, also >>>>>>>> central >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> the living of it?? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In a third plane, we could proceed as if Sokolov's narration was not >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> a >>> >>>> retrospective narration, but the on-time sequence of events with >>>>>>>> on-time >>>>>>>> Sokolov's explanation of these events (in the moments in which the >>>>>>>> narrator >>>>>>>> voice is assumed within the flashback). In this plane, there are >>>>>>>> several >>>>>>>> interesting perezhivanie phenomena. Clearly, there is a Sokolov's >>>>>>>> activity >>>>>>>> of experiencing-as-struggle, which initiates when he realizes that >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> all >>> >>>> his >>>>>>>> family, except one son, had been killed 2 years ago. At this moment, >>>>>>>> his >>>>>>>> life becomes meaningless; the meaning (m-perezhivanie) he uses to >>>>>>>> relate >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> all his life (including the past) at this moment is expressed in his >>>>>>>> conversation with his oncle: ?it's got to be that this life of mine >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> is >>> >>>> nothing but a nightmare!?. In this moment, Sokolov's past in the >>>>>>>> prision >>>>>>>> camp becomes also meaningless: then, his link to life (the >>>>>>>> m-perezhivanie >>>>>>>> that made being alive meaningful to him) was meeting his family; but >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> at >>> >>>> that time his family was already dead, so when he discovers it, he >>>>>>>> realizes >>>>>>>> that this m-perezhivanie (the idea of meeting his family) was >>>>>>>> linking >>>>>>>> him >>>>>>>> to death, not to life, so all his efforts to surviving become >>>>>>>> meaningless: >>>>>>>> ?Every night, when I was a prisioner, I talked with them. Now it >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> turns >>> >>>> out >>>>>>>> that for two years I was talking with the dead??. In this >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> conversation, >>> >>>> however, his oncle offers him an alternative m-perezhivanie to relate >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> his life: he still has a son, so the m-perehivanie of meeting his >>>>>>>> family >>>>>>>> can still turns Sokolov's life meaningful: ?you've got to go on >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> living. >>> >>>> You >>>>>>>> have to find Anatoly. When the war is over, your son will get >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> married, >>> >>>> you >>>>>>>> will live with them. You will take up your carpentry again, play >>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>> grandkids?. It takes some time to Sokolov to enter into this >>>>>>>> m-perezhivanie, but he does it and his life becomes meaningful >>>>>>>> again: >>>>>>>> ?and >>>>>>>> then, unexpectedly, I've got a gleam of sunlight?. But, then, >>>>>>>> Anatoly >>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>> dies. How to keep living? Here, Sokolov holds the m-perezhivanie >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> linked him to life until that moment, and therefore, he needs a son; >>>>>>>> pretending being the father of Vanya turns his life meaningful >>>>>>>> again. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Another interesting thing, still at that level, is how Sokolov's >>>>>>>> relation >>>>>>>> with his own immediate death changes along the different occasions >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>> he faces it. I thing here there are examples of >>>>>>>> experiencing-as-contemplation -in my view, this is not >>>>>>>> experiencing-as-struggle because the situation of impossibility (the >>>>>>>> immediate death) is removed existentially (Sokolov's life is given >>>>>>>> back to >>>>>>>> him), so that there is not a permanent situation of impossibility >>>>>>>> which is >>>>>>>> initially meaningless and is turned into meaningful. In each >>>>>>>> occasion >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> which Sokolov is faced with his immediate death, the m-perezhivanie >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> mediates this relationship is different. When he is captured, his >>>>>>>> m-perezhivanie is expressed as: ?here's my death coming after me?. >>>>>>>> When he >>>>>>>> is conducted to meet the nazi official, the m-perezhivanie is >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> expressed >>> >>>> as: >>>>>>>> ?the end of your misery?, ?to my death and my release of this >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> torment, >>> >>>> I >>>>>>>> will drink?. In the first, the death is running after Sokolov; in >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> second, it is Sokolov happily going to meet death. Later, at the end >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> of >>> >>>> the >>>>>>>> film, he faces his immediate death again, and the m-perezhivanie is >>>>>>>> expressed as: ?I'm really worried that I might die in my sleep, and >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> would frighten my little son?. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Well, just some thoughts after watching this wonderful film. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Marc. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 2017-01-15 0:06 GMT+01:00 Christopher Schuck < >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> schuckcschuck@gmail.com >>> >>>> : >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes, definitely that article! And specifically, when I used >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> "pivoting" >>> >>>> I >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> couldn't help but think of Beth's earlier example about how a child >>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>> use a stick as a pivot for a horse. Perhaps a somewhat different >>>>>>>>> application but related, no? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 4:06 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < >>>>>>>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Chris, all, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> your post is totally relevant to Beth's and Monica's article in the >>>>>>>>>> special issue. They write about film and perezhivanie (quoting >>>>>>>>>> Sobchack) >>>>>>>>>> the following: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The reason that film allows us to glimpse the future is that there >>>>>>>>>> is a >>>>>>>>>> connection between filmic time and ?real? time: ?The images of a >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> film >>> >>>> exist >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> in the world as a temporal flow, within finitude and situation. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Indeed, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> fascination of the film is that it does not transcend our >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> lived-experience >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> of temporality, but rather that it seems to partake of it, to share >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> it? >>>>>>>>>> (1992, p. 60). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> And later >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> "Specifically, the way that the flow of time becomes >>>>>>>>>> multidirectional is >>>>>>>>>> that ?rehearsals make it necessary to think of the future in such >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> way >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> to create a past? (1985, p. 39). As Schechner ex-plains: ?In a very >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> real >>>>>>>>>> way the future ? the project coming into existence through the >>>>>>>>>> process >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> rehearsal ? determines the past: what will be kept from earlier >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> rehearsals >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> or from the ?source ma-terials? (1985, p. 39)." >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Alfredo >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >> >>>> du> >>>>>>>>>> on behalf of Christopher Schuck >>>>>>>>>> Sent: 14 January 2017 21:43 >>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fate of a Man >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> But that's both the limitation and strength of art or fictional >>>>>>>>>> narrative >>>>>>>>>> as opposed to real life, isn't it? That art focuses our attention >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> and >>> >>>> highlights certain features in a way that is idealized and >>>>>>>>>> artificially >>>>>>>>>> "designed" to convey something more clearly and purely (but less >>>>>>>>>> organically and authentically) than it would be conveyed in the >>>>>>>>>> course >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> living it, or observing someone else living it? One way to get >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> around >>> >>>> this >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> would be, as David says, to analyze the film in terms of clues as >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> stages of emergence. But maybe another way to use the film would >>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> view >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> it not so much as a complete, self-sufficient "example" of >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> perezhivanie, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> a *tool *for pivoting back and forth between the concept of >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> perezhivanie >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> imaginatively constructed (through fiction), and the concept of >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> perezhivanie as imaginatively constructed (through our real living >>>>>>>>>> experience and observation of it). So, it would be the *pivoting* >>>>>>>>>> between >>>>>>>>>> these two manifestations of the concept (designed vs. evolved, as >>>>>>>>>> David >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> put >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> it) that reveals new insights about perezhivanie, rather than >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> understanding >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> the concept from the film per se. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 3:08 PM, David Kellogg < >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> dkellogg60@gmail.com >>> >>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I think there's a good reason why Andy started a new thread on >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> this: >>> >>>> he's a >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> very tidy thinker (quite unlike yours truly) and he knows that one >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> reason >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> why xmca threads are seldom cumulative is that they digress to >>>>>>>>>> related >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> problems without solving the immmediate ones. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Yes, of course, a film allows us to consider an example of >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> "perezhivanie", >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> but it is a designed perezhivanie rather than an evolved one; it >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> doesn't >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> explicitly display the various stages of emergence required for a >>>>>>>>>> genetic >>>>>>>>>> analysis, unless we analyze it not as a complete and finished work >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> of >>> >>>> art >>>>>>>>>> but instead for clues as to the stages of its creation (the way >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> that, >>> >>>> for >>>>>>>>>> example, "Quietly Flows the Don" was analyzed to determine its >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> authenticity). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I remember that In the original short story, the schnapps >>>>>>>>>>> drinking >>>>>>>>>>> scene seemed like pure sleight of hand: an artistically >>>>>>>>>>> gratuitous >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> example >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> of what eventually gave Soviet social realism such a bad name. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> David Kellogg >>>>>>>>>>> Macquarie University >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 10:04 PM, Carol Macdonald < >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> carolmacdon@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Fellow XMCa-ers >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I have watched it through now, thank you Andy, but right now only >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> empirical >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> psychological categories come to mind. I will watch it again and >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> in >>> >>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> meanwhile let my fellows with more recent experience of >>>>>>>>>>> /perezhivanie/ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> take >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> the discussion further. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> It is a kind of timeless story, and modern film techniques would >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> perhaps >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> more explicit. At the least I would say it has for me a Russian >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> understanding of suffering, perhaps because of their unique >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> experience >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> it. But having said that, WWII must have generated other similar >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> experiences, apart from the first part about Andrei's family >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> dying >>> >>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> famine. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Carol >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 14 January 2017 at 02:15, Andy Blunden >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I watched it in two parts with subtitles: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16w7fg_destiny-of-a-man- >>>>>>>>>>>>> 1959-pt-1_creation >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16wat4_destiny-of-a-man- >>>>>>>>>>>>> 1959-pt-2_creation >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Andy >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>>>>>>>>> Andy Blunden >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://home.mira.net/~andy >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective- >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> decision-making >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 14/01/2017 2:35 AM, Beth Ferholt wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for taking us to a shared example. I think that >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> having a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Carol A Macdonald Ph.D (Edin) >>>>>>>>>>>> Cultural Historical Activity Theory >>>>>>>>>>>> Honorary Research Fellow: Department of Linguistics, Unisa >>>>>>>>>>>> alternative email address: tmacdoca@unisa.ac.za >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>> -- >>> Beth Ferholt >>> Assistant Professor >>> Department of Early Childhood and Art Education >>> Brooklyn College, City University of New York >>> 2900 Bedford Avenue >>> Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 >>> >>> Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu >>> Phone: (718) 951-5205 >>> Fax: (718) 951-4816 >>> >>> >> > -- Beth Ferholt Assistant Professor Department of Early Childhood and Art Education Brooklyn College, City University of New York 2900 Bedford Avenue Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu Phone: (718) 951-5205 Fax: (718) 951-4816 From ewall@umich.edu Mon Feb 6 10:44:36 2017 From: ewall@umich.edu (Edward Wall) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 12:44:36 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Playworlds, Performance, Perezhivanie, Apophasis ... and TRUMP'S speech! In-Reply-To: References: <5893695b.c32f630a.3d640.41ee@mx.google.com> <1486189210098.72503@iped.uio.no> <1486277344127.10046@iped.uio.no> <20AD4506-5F47-4029-89BE-0CD332315BE2@umich.edu> Message-ID: Greg As I haven?t worked out the details in my own mind, here is a sketch of what I was thinking about (I?m going to leave out page #s, etc). In a sense Alfredo has already suggested how one might look at Trump?s speech and Michael has indicated a portion of a key text. I have a possibly slightly different view form Alfredo perhaps more in line with, for example, Sheehan. Heidegger writes in ?Logic: The Question of Truth? that, in effect, the statement as proposition is not where truth resides, but the truth of the proposition, in effect, resides in the possibility of bringing its referents into the light (here is where aletheia takes a part); i.e. uncovering. That is, on the level of ?apophantic as? things are propositionally either true or false, but on the level of the ?hermeneutic as? they are neither. However, the ?apophantic as? is grounded in interpretation, i.e. the ?hermeneutic as.? For Heidegger (and this is an oversimplification) hermeneutic truth is, in effect, disclosure. To quote a portion of Alfredo?s email > Heidegger's treatment of Aristotle suggests [.]Trump's speech would be rather *deceiving,* i.e., "putting something in front of something else ... and thereby passing it off *as* something it is *not*". So, I was thinking that one could ask what ?something? was, in a sense, being covered up. Keep in mind that doing this would be interpretative work and, if one takes Gadamer seriously, complicated since if one, so to speak, surfaces to the apophantic then, in effect, there is a covering back up. The effect is a sort of spiraling almost, as I think about it, a jump from the apophantic to the apophantic or, perhaps in more Vygotskian terms, from the concrete to the concrete. Also, and this is more important, the consequent would not be an understanding of Trump?s speech, but an understanding of how I understand Trump?s speech. Tugendhat has problems with a sort of lack of correspondence between apophantic and hermeneutic truth and argues false assertions can, in effect, also uncover. That is, if to uncover stands for pointing out, then every assertion (false or true) must uncover.; a counter argument is, of course, that Heidegger employs ?uncover? narrowly so as to, in effect, only allow for false assertions covering over. Further, if truth is bounded between concealing and unconcealing then Tugendhat argues it is impossible to determine the specific sense of apophantic falsehood, and therefore of apophantic truth. Okay, this is more than enough. Ed I > On Feb 5, 2017, at 7:27 PM, Greg Thompson wrote: > > Ed, > Could you expand on Heidegger and aletheia and Trump? (and Tugendhat). > If it isn't too much trouble I'd appreciate the expansion very much. > -greg > > On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 1:05 PM, Edward Wall wrote: > >> It is perhaps worth pointing out that there are two different words being >> used to supposedly point at the same thing (transliterated and taken from >> Liddell and Scott): >> >> apophansis: a declaration or statement >> apophasis: a denial, negation >> >> Hence, people may be misinterpreting each other. >> >> One could read Trump?s speaking with an eye to Heidegger, but it would >> probablye done in term of aletheia. However, Tugendhat has shown that all >> this is a little more complicated that Heidegger indicated. >> >> Ed Wall >> >>> On Feb 5, 2017, at 12:49 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil >> wrote: >>> >>> Henry, >>> >>> I guess for the cartoon to be about apophansis, Trump's speech would >> have to present itself to Trump's supporters as two opposed things >> *simultaneously*, but then perhaps this no longer would be *genuine* >> speech, in the sense Heidegger's treatment of Aristotle suggests. Trump's >> speech would be rather *deceiving,* i.e., "putting something in front of >> something else ... and thereby passing it off *as* something it is *not*". >>> >>> Cognitive dissonance seems to imply there is some processing between >> the said (logos) and its showing of itself *as* something, which would not >> fit well Heidegger... In any case, as the cartoon nicely illustrates, >> Trumps' supporters may be having a hard time too, it can't be easy. >>> >>> Alfredo >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> on behalf of Wolff-Michael Roth >>> Sent: 05 February 2017 02:22 >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>> Cc: Wolff-Michael Roth >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Playworlds, Performance, Perezhivanie, Apophasis >> ... and TRUMP'S speech! >>> >>> When you have a question about a concept, look up where it is defined. >>> Michael >>> >>> Heidegger, 1996, pp. 28?29 >>> Rather, logos as speech really means *deloun*, to make manifest "what >>> is being talked about" in speech. Aristotle explicates this function of >>> speech more precisely as *apophainesthai*. Logos lets something be seen >>> (*phainesthai*), namely what is being talked about, and indeed for the >>> speaker (who serves as the medium) or for those who speak with each >>> other. Speech "lets us see," from itself, *apo*. . . , what is being >> talked >>> about. In speech (*apophansis*), insofar as it is genuine, what is said >>> should >>> be derived from what is being talked about. In this way spoken commu- >>> nication, in what it says, makes manifest what it is talking about and >>> thus makes it accessible to another. Such is the structure of logos as >>> apophansis. >>> Not every "speech" suits *this* mode of making manifest, in the >>> sense of letting something be seen by indicating it. For example, >> requesting >>> (*euche*) also makes something manifest, but in a different way. >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> -------------------- >>> Wolff-Michael Roth, Lansdowne Professor >>> Applied Cognitive Science >>> MacLaurin Building A567 >>> University of Victoria >>> Victoria, BC, V8P 5C2 >>> http://web.uvic.ca/~mroth >>> >>> New book: *The Mathematics of Mathematics >>> > directions-in-mathematics-and-science-education/the- >> mathematics-of-mathematics/>* >>> >>> On Sat, Feb 4, 2017 at 4:50 PM, HENRY SHONERD >> wrote: >>> >>>> Alfredo, >>>> Would the attached link be an example of apophasis? I hope the link gets >>>> you the cartoon from Daily Kos on Feb 1, which illustrates the >> "cognitive >>>> dissonance of Trump supporters?. >>>> >>>> http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/2/1/1628099/- >>>> Cartoon-Trump-supporters-cognitive-dissonance?detail= >>>> email&link_id=15&can_id=d9825820685b26308482b9b5c5bb09 >>>> 5d&source=email-trump-reportedly-tells-female-staffers-to-dress-like- >>>> womentwitter-says-fun&email_referrer=trump-reportedly- >>>> tells-female-staffers-to-dress-like-womentwitter-says- >>>> fun___162460&email_subject=news-organizations-and- >>>> festivities-begin-pulling-out-of-annual-correspondents-dinner-with-trump >> < >>>> http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/2/1/1628099/- >>>> Cartoon-Trump-supporters-cognitive-dissonance?detail= >>>> email&link_id=15&can_id=d9825820685b26308482b9b5c5bb09 >>>> 5d&source=email-trump-reportedly-tells-female-staffers-to-dress-like- >>>> womentwitter-says-fun&email_referrer=trump-reportedly- >>>> tells-female-staffers-to-dress-like-womentwitter-says- >>>> fun___162460&email_subject=news-organizations-and- >>>> festivities-begin-pulling-out-of-annual-correspondents- >> dinner-with-trump> >>>> >>>> Henry >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Feb 3, 2017, at 11:20 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Larry, >>>>> I am familiar with the term apophantic (the auto-spelling keeps >>>> correcting the term to "hipophatic" which is the term you use) as it >>>> appears in Heidegger. Not sure now about the connection with Vygotsky >> that >>>> you are after; it seems quite of a complex thread to weave across, at >> least >>>> in the xmca format. >>>>> >>>>> But!, since I wanted to make sure we were using the same term, I did >>>> google it and, guess what I found? An example of apophasis as used by >>>> TRUMP!: >>>>> >>>>> In 2015, Trump said of fellow Republican presidential candidate and >>>> former Hewlett-Packard CEO Carly Fiorina, "I promised I would not say >> that >>>> she ran Hewlett-Packard into the ground, that she laid off tens of >>>> thousands of people and she got viciously fired. I said I will not say >> it, >>>> so I will not say it."In 2016, he tweeted of journalist Megyn Kelly, ?I >>>> refuse to call [her] a bimbo, because that would not be politically >>>> correct." >>>>> >>>>> Here is the link to the full article from the Huffington post: >>>>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-rhetorical-device_us_ >>>> 56c358cbe4b0c3c55052b32b >>>>> >>>>> Alfredo >>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> >>>> on behalf of lpscholar2@gmail.com >>>>> Sent: 02 February 2017 18:15 >>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Playworlds, Performance, Perezhivanie, Apophasis >>>>> >>>>> Beth and Monica explore the phenomena occurring in playworlds >> generating >>>> perezhivanie. >>>>> >>>>> Playworlds are performance worlds and these worlds may be exploring the >>>> relation of ?unity? and ?difference?. >>>>> >>>>> Another term that may have relevance when Beth and Monica refer to >>>> negating the negation is the operation of ?apophasis?. >>>>> William Frank (On What Cannot Be Said) describes the apophatic : >>>>> >>>>> *In apophasis, which empties language of all positive content, absolute >>>> difference cannot be distinguished from absolute unity, even though the >>>> respective discourses of difference and unity nominally stand at the >>>> antipodes. BOTH configurations, unity and difference, are exposed as >>>> relatively arbitrary and, in the end, equally inadequate schemas for >>>> articulating what cannot be said. (Franke) >>>>> >>>>> Claire Chambers in her book (Performance Studies and Negative >>>> Epistemology) comments on the above Franke citation : >>>>> >>>>> *If unity and difference cannot be distinguished from one another (we >>>> cannot KNOW what makes them distinct), then it is impossible to >> determine >>>> what either ?is? ? meaning that knowing and being, epistemology and >>>> ontology, are also impossible to distinguish from one another.(Claire >>>> Chambers Chapter 1) >>>>> >>>>> I am not sure how far to go with this theme of : Negating the negation? >>>>> I hear this theme in playworlds. >>>>> >>>>> If this seems relevant, i can post the first chapter of Claire Chambers >>>> book. I will just mention that Vygotsky?s Judaic childhood and >> adolescence >>>> would have encountered this apophatic ?tradition?. >>>>> Enough for one probe or possible pivot? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my Windows 10 phone >>>>> >>>> >>>> >> >> >> > > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson From schuckcschuck@gmail.com Mon Feb 6 11:35:05 2017 From: schuckcschuck@gmail.com (Christopher Schuck) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 14:35:05 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Playworlds, Performance, Perezhivanie, Apophasis ... and TRUMP'S speech! In-Reply-To: <1486277344127.10046@iped.uio.no> References: <5893695b.c32f630a.3d640.41ee@mx.google.com> <1486189210098.72503@iped.uio.no> <1486277344127.10046@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: There would seem to be several different ways of interpreting Trump's actions in the Huff Post article. One I see as involving the specifically *ironic* tension between what is formally disowned in the statement and what is obviously being intended and made manifest in the act of mentioning it. In the examples described, this would function to emphasize the obvious truth and importance of the charge, and the futility of hiding it. The comment by Jon Favreau toward the end of the article suggests an even cruder version, in which Trump is not being ironic so much as just being a bully ("another version of when my little brother used to hold his finger within an inch of my face and say, ?Not touching you!?), where the gap between the insult and the disowning of the insult is so tiny that it's basically just a form of intimidation. In both these cases, there doesn't seem to be all that much that is hidden or unsaid; it's all pretty transparent and blatant. Finally, the explanation given by the Huff Post writer -- that Trump is sneaking in the taboo subject by planting it in listener's minds without coming off as directly making the accusation, as a form of subterfuge and manipulation -- might be more in line with the meaning of apophasis that has been discussed. Chris On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 1:49 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > Henry, > > I guess for the cartoon to be about apophansis, Trump's speech would have > to present itself to Trump's supporters as two opposed things > *simultaneously*, but then perhaps this no longer would be *genuine* > speech, in the sense Heidegger's treatment of Aristotle suggests. Trump's > speech would be rather *deceiving,* i.e., "putting something in front of > something else ... and thereby passing it off *as* something it is *not*". > > Cognitive dissonance seems to imply there is some processing between the > said (logos) and its showing of itself *as* something, which would not fit > well Heidegger... In any case, as the cartoon nicely illustrates, Trumps' > supporters may be having a hard time too, it can't be easy. > > Alfredo > > > > > ________________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Wolff-Michael Roth > Sent: 05 February 2017 02:22 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Cc: Wolff-Michael Roth > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Playworlds, Performance, Perezhivanie, Apophasis ... > and TRUMP'S speech! > > When you have a question about a concept, look up where it is defined. > Michael > > Heidegger, 1996, pp. 28?29 > Rather, logos as speech really means *deloun*, to make manifest "what > is being talked about" in speech. Aristotle explicates this function of > speech more precisely as *apophainesthai*. Logos lets something be seen > (*phainesthai*), namely what is being talked about, and indeed for the > speaker (who serves as the medium) or for those who speak with each > other. Speech "lets us see," from itself, *apo*. . . , what is being talked > about. In speech (*apophansis*), insofar as it is genuine, what is said > should > be derived from what is being talked about. In this way spoken commu- > nication, in what it says, makes manifest what it is talking about and > thus makes it accessible to another. Such is the structure of logos as > apophansis. > Not every "speech" suits *this* mode of making manifest, in the > sense of letting something be seen by indicating it. For example, > requesting > (*euche*) also makes something manifest, but in a different way. > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > -------------------- > Wolff-Michael Roth, Lansdowne Professor > Applied Cognitive Science > MacLaurin Building A567 > University of Victoria > Victoria, BC, V8P 5C2 > http://web.uvic.ca/~mroth > > New book: *The Mathematics of Mathematics > directions-in-mathematics-and-science-education/the- > mathematics-of-mathematics/>* > > On Sat, Feb 4, 2017 at 4:50 PM, HENRY SHONERD wrote: > > > Alfredo, > > Would the attached link be an example of apophasis? I hope the link gets > > you the cartoon from Daily Kos on Feb 1, which illustrates the "cognitive > > dissonance of Trump supporters?. > > > > http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/2/1/1628099/- > > Cartoon-Trump-supporters-cognitive-dissonance?detail= > > email&link_id=15&can_id=d9825820685b26308482b9b5c5bb09 > > 5d&source=email-trump-reportedly-tells-female-staffers-to-dress-like- > > womentwitter-says-fun&email_referrer=trump-reportedly- > > tells-female-staffers-to-dress-like-womentwitter-says- > > fun___162460&email_subject=news-organizations-and- > > festivities-begin-pulling-out-of-annual-correspondents-dinner-with-trump > < > > http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/2/1/1628099/- > > Cartoon-Trump-supporters-cognitive-dissonance?detail= > > email&link_id=15&can_id=d9825820685b26308482b9b5c5bb09 > > 5d&source=email-trump-reportedly-tells-female-staffers-to-dress-like- > > womentwitter-says-fun&email_referrer=trump-reportedly- > > tells-female-staffers-to-dress-like-womentwitter-says- > > fun___162460&email_subject=news-organizations-and- > > festivities-begin-pulling-out-of-annual-correspondents- > dinner-with-trump> > > > > Henry > > > > > > > On Feb 3, 2017, at 11:20 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > > wrote: > > > > > > Larry, > > > I am familiar with the term apophantic (the auto-spelling keeps > > correcting the term to "hipophatic" which is the term you use) as it > > appears in Heidegger. Not sure now about the connection with Vygotsky > that > > you are after; it seems quite of a complex thread to weave across, at > least > > in the xmca format. > > > > > > But!, since I wanted to make sure we were using the same term, I did > > google it and, guess what I found? An example of apophasis as used by > > TRUMP!: > > > > > > In 2015, Trump said of fellow Republican presidential candidate and > > former Hewlett-Packard CEO Carly Fiorina, "I promised I would not say > that > > she ran Hewlett-Packard into the ground, that she laid off tens of > > thousands of people and she got viciously fired. I said I will not say > it, > > so I will not say it."In 2016, he tweeted of journalist Megyn Kelly, ?I > > refuse to call [her] a bimbo, because that would not be politically > > correct." > > > > > > Here is the link to the full article from the Huffington post: > > > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-rhetorical-device_us_ > > 56c358cbe4b0c3c55052b32b > > > > > > Alfredo > > > ________________________________________ > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > on behalf of lpscholar2@gmail.com > > > Sent: 02 February 2017 18:15 > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Playworlds, Performance, Perezhivanie, Apophasis > > > > > > Beth and Monica explore the phenomena occurring in playworlds > generating > > perezhivanie. > > > > > > Playworlds are performance worlds and these worlds may be exploring the > > relation of ?unity? and ?difference?. > > > > > > Another term that may have relevance when Beth and Monica refer to > > negating the negation is the operation of ?apophasis?. > > > William Frank (On What Cannot Be Said) describes the apophatic : > > > > > > *In apophasis, which empties language of all positive content, absolute > > difference cannot be distinguished from absolute unity, even though the > > respective discourses of difference and unity nominally stand at the > > antipodes. BOTH configurations, unity and difference, are exposed as > > relatively arbitrary and, in the end, equally inadequate schemas for > > articulating what cannot be said. (Franke) > > > > > > Claire Chambers in her book (Performance Studies and Negative > > Epistemology) comments on the above Franke citation : > > > > > > *If unity and difference cannot be distinguished from one another (we > > cannot KNOW what makes them distinct), then it is impossible to determine > > what either ?is? ? meaning that knowing and being, epistemology and > > ontology, are also impossible to distinguish from one another.(Claire > > Chambers Chapter 1) > > > > > > I am not sure how far to go with this theme of : Negating the negation? > > > I hear this theme in playworlds. > > > > > > If this seems relevant, i can post the first chapter of Claire Chambers > > book. I will just mention that Vygotsky?s Judaic childhood and > adolescence > > would have encountered this apophatic ?tradition?. > > > Enough for one probe or possible pivot? > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my Windows 10 phone > > > > > > > > From Peg.Griffin@att.net Mon Feb 6 12:03:53 2017 From: Peg.Griffin@att.net (Peg Griffin) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 15:03:53 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Playworlds, Performance, Perezhivanie, Apophasis ... and TRUMP'S speech! In-Reply-To: References: <5893695b.c32f630a.3d640.41ee@mx.google.com> <1486189210098.72503@iped.uio.no> <1486277344127.10046@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: <002d01d280b4$25517650$6ff462f0$@att.net> https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/05/us/politics/trump-white-house-aides-strategy.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news About tactics and executive orders: According to the NY Times story about tactics, he?s now demanding that he be in the loop. In the loop. Not writing an order or even reading them but in the loop. In the loop. And being in the loop is the effort for a better version of this administration? In the loop. Cast on; knit three; purl three. Lots of loops still going into the making of pussy hats. Those are the loops he?s in and won?t get out of. Madam Defarge, what have you done now? Peg -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Christopher Schuck Sent: Monday, February 06, 2017 2:35 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Playworlds, Performance, Perezhivanie, Apophasis ... and TRUMP'S speech! There would seem to be several different ways of interpreting Trump's actions in the Huff Post article. One I see as involving the specifically *ironic* tension between what is formally disowned in the statement and what is obviously being intended and made manifest in the act of mentioning it. In the examples described, this would function to emphasize the obvious truth and importance of the charge, and the futility of hiding it. The comment by Jon Favreau toward the end of the article suggests an even cruder version, in which Trump is not being ironic so much as just being a bully ("another version of when my little brother used to hold his finger within an inch of my face and say, ?Not touching you!?), where the gap between the insult and the disowning of the insult is so tiny that it's basically just a form of intimidation. In both these cases, there doesn't seem to be all that much that is hidden or unsaid; it's all pretty transparent and blatant. Finally, the explanation given by the Huff Post writer -- that Trump is sneaking in the taboo subject by planting it in listener's minds without coming off as directly making the accusation, as a form of subterfuge and manipulation -- might be more in line with the meaning of apophasis that has been discussed. Chris On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 1:49 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > Henry, > > I guess for the cartoon to be about apophansis, Trump's speech would > have to present itself to Trump's supporters as two opposed things > *simultaneously*, but then perhaps this no longer would be *genuine* > speech, in the sense Heidegger's treatment of Aristotle suggests. > Trump's speech would be rather *deceiving,* i.e., "putting something > in front of something else ... and thereby passing it off *as* something it is *not*". > > Cognitive dissonance seems to imply there is some processing between > the said (logos) and its showing of itself *as* something, which would > not fit well Heidegger... In any case, as the cartoon nicely illustrates, Trumps' > supporters may be having a hard time too, it can't be easy. > > Alfredo > > > > > ________________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Wolff-Michael Roth > > Sent: 05 February 2017 02:22 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Cc: Wolff-Michael Roth > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Playworlds, Performance, Perezhivanie, Apophasis ... > and TRUMP'S speech! > > When you have a question about a concept, look up where it is defined. > Michael > > Heidegger, 1996, pp. 28?29 > Rather, logos as speech really means *deloun*, to make manifest "what > is being talked about" in speech. Aristotle explicates this function > of speech more precisely as *apophainesthai*. Logos lets something be > seen (*phainesthai*), namely what is being talked about, and indeed > for the speaker (who serves as the medium) or for those who speak with > each other. Speech "lets us see," from itself, *apo*. . . , what is > being talked about. In speech (*apophansis*), insofar as it is > genuine, what is said should be derived from what is being talked > about. In this way spoken commu- nication, in what it says, makes > manifest what it is talking about and thus makes it accessible to > another. Such is the structure of logos as apophansis. > Not every "speech" suits *this* mode of making manifest, in the sense > of letting something be seen by indicating it. For example, requesting > (*euche*) also makes something manifest, but in a different way. > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > -------------------- > Wolff-Michael Roth, Lansdowne Professor Applied Cognitive Science > MacLaurin Building A567 University of Victoria Victoria, BC, V8P 5C2 > http://web.uvic.ca/~mroth > > New book: *The Mathematics of Mathematics > directions-in-mathematics-and-science-education/the- > mathematics-of-mathematics/>* > > On Sat, Feb 4, 2017 at 4:50 PM, HENRY SHONERD wrote: > > > Alfredo, > > Would the attached link be an example of apophasis? I hope the link > > gets you the cartoon from Daily Kos on Feb 1, which illustrates the > > "cognitive dissonance of Trump supporters?. > > > > http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/2/1/1628099/- > > Cartoon-Trump-supporters-cognitive-dissonance?detail= > > email&link_id=15&can_id=d9825820685b26308482b9b5c5bb09 > > 5d&source=email-trump-reportedly-tells-female-staffers-to-dress-like > > - > > womentwitter-says-fun&email_referrer=trump-reportedly- > > tells-female-staffers-to-dress-like-womentwitter-says- > > fun___162460&email_subject=news-organizations-and- > > festivities-begin-pulling-out-of-annual-correspondents-dinner-with-t > > rump > < > > http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/2/1/1628099/- > > Cartoon-Trump-supporters-cognitive-dissonance?detail= > > email&link_id=15&can_id=d9825820685b26308482b9b5c5bb09 > > 5d&source=email-trump-reportedly-tells-female-staffers-to-dress-like > > - > > womentwitter-says-fun&email_referrer=trump-reportedly- > > tells-female-staffers-to-dress-like-womentwitter-says- > > fun___162460&email_subject=news-organizations-and- > > festivities-begin-pulling-out-of-annual-correspondents- > dinner-with-trump> > > > > Henry > > > > > > > On Feb 3, 2017, at 11:20 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Larry, > > > I am familiar with the term apophantic (the auto-spelling keeps > > correcting the term to "hipophatic" which is the term you use) as it > > appears in Heidegger. Not sure now about the connection with > > Vygotsky > that > > you are after; it seems quite of a complex thread to weave across, > > at > least > > in the xmca format. > > > > > > But!, since I wanted to make sure we were using the same term, I > > > did > > google it and, guess what I found? An example of apophasis as used > > by > > TRUMP!: > > > > > > In 2015, Trump said of fellow Republican presidential candidate > > > and > > former Hewlett-Packard CEO Carly Fiorina, "I promised I would not > > say > that > > she ran Hewlett-Packard into the ground, that she laid off tens of > > thousands of people and she got viciously fired. I said I will not > > say > it, > > so I will not say it."In 2016, he tweeted of journalist Megyn Kelly, > > ?I refuse to call [her] a bimbo, because that would not be > > politically correct." > > > > > > Here is the link to the full article from the Huffington post: > > > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-rhetorical-device > > > _us_ > > 56c358cbe4b0c3c55052b32b > > > > > > Alfredo > > > ________________________________________ > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > > > on behalf of lpscholar2@gmail.com > > > Sent: 02 February 2017 18:15 > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Playworlds, Performance, Perezhivanie, > > > Apophasis > > > > > > Beth and Monica explore the phenomena occurring in playworlds > generating > > perezhivanie. > > > > > > Playworlds are performance worlds and these worlds may be > > > exploring the > > relation of ?unity? and ?difference?. > > > > > > Another term that may have relevance when Beth and Monica refer to > > negating the negation is the operation of ?apophasis?. > > > William Frank (On What Cannot Be Said) describes the apophatic : > > > > > > *In apophasis, which empties language of all positive content, > > > absolute > > difference cannot be distinguished from absolute unity, even though > > the respective discourses of difference and unity nominally stand at > > the antipodes. BOTH configurations, unity and difference, are > > exposed as relatively arbitrary and, in the end, equally inadequate > > schemas for articulating what cannot be said. (Franke) > > > > > > Claire Chambers in her book (Performance Studies and Negative > > Epistemology) comments on the above Franke citation : > > > > > > *If unity and difference cannot be distinguished from one another > > > (we > > cannot KNOW what makes them distinct), then it is impossible to > > determine what either ?is? ? meaning that knowing and being, > > epistemology and ontology, are also impossible to distinguish from > > one another.(Claire Chambers Chapter 1) > > > > > > I am not sure how far to go with this theme of : Negating the negation? > > > I hear this theme in playworlds. > > > > > > If this seems relevant, i can post the first chapter of Claire > > > Chambers > > book. I will just mention that Vygotsky?s Judaic childhood and > adolescence > > would have encountered this apophatic ?tradition?. > > > Enough for one probe or possible pivot? > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my Windows 10 phone > > > > > > > > From smago@uga.edu Tue Feb 7 02:46:25 2017 From: smago@uga.edu (Peter Smagorinsky) Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2017 10:46:25 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] forms of activism Message-ID: Many of us are better at writing than marching. My colleague Larry Nackerud wrote this essay for today's local paper. [Home] Posted February 6, 2017 02:52 pm By Larry Nackerud ________________________________ Nackerud: Fear won't make America great Newly elected President Donald Trump promised to "Make America Great Again," but instead, through his early actions, he has shown how afraid we are as a nation. To protect ourselves from Mexicans we must build a wall. To protect ourselves from Muslims we must suspend our political refugee program. It is important to remember that persons seeking political refugee status do so after fleeing their homes and countries of origin due to persecution. These persons are persecuted because of their religion, their nationality, their membership in a social group or a political opinion they hold. A small number of these persons fleeing persecution are accepted for resettlement in countries like Canada, Sweden, Norway, France, Spain, Germany, and Italy. The United States used to be a leader among this group of countries. The United States used to be a leader in the world for providing a safe haven for persecuted persons. Filtered into that provision of a safe haven for persecuted persons was our country's respect for and acceptance of cultural and religious differences. But now, as part of the fearmongering campaign that characterizes Mr. Trump's early days, the United States has lost its position of prominence in the international community. Shutting down our entire refugee program by banning, even temporarily, particular persecuted persons from particular countries reveals not our strength as a nation, but our weakness and our fear. When did the people of the United States become so afraid and the nation become a house of fear? To promote liberty, freedom and respect for all persons takes courage. I believe Mr. Trump has succeeded in showing us that fear and isolationism, not courage, is his and his followers' preferred method to "Make America Great Again." Larry Nackerud [http://cdn3.gigya.com/gs/i/comments2/Avatar_empty_x1.png] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 6162 bytes Desc: image001.png Url : https://mailman.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/xmca-l/attachments/20170207/27ccbd7e/attachment.png -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 1743 bytes Desc: image002.png Url : https://mailman.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/xmca-l/attachments/20170207/27ccbd7e/attachment-0001.png From laure.kloetzer@gmail.com Tue Feb 7 08:01:49 2017 From: laure.kloetzer@gmail.com (Laure Kloetzer) Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2017 17:01:49 +0100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Gunilla's 1996 paper Message-ID: Dear colleagues, After a desperate search for Gunilla's classical paper in my Swiss libraries, I am asking the community for some help. Would one of you have a pdf copy of: Lindqvist, G. (1996). The aesthetics of play. A didactic study of play and culture in preschools. *Early Years*, *17*(1), 6-11. Thanks a lot for your help ! Best regards LK From lpscholar2@gmail.com Tue Feb 7 08:02:31 2017 From: lpscholar2@gmail.com (lpscholar2@gmail.com) Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2017 08:02:31 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Bannon's actions as "shock event" In-Reply-To: References: <003601d2776d$2cc0a910$8641fb30$@att.net> <003a01d27774$a0aeaf00$e20c0d00$@att.net> <588a1d8b.c280630a.7710d.bdd6@mx.google.com> <002401d277f4$d8da5ac0$8a8f1040$@att.net> <588a317a.1121620a.8e1ba.d866@mx.google.com> <71E849D1-5353-4DDA-BA83-F1DF29820355@gmail.com> <88AB2869-5898-4F23-BB2E-6CCD490C96F7@umn.edu> <1486190026596.25381@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: <5899efca.0626620a.46597.fbf3@mx.google.com> Richard, Whether shock events are strategy (with a real intended goal) or impulse (episodic, chaotic) i am not sure? However, as we try to make sense of these shock events, I was reflecting on David?s analysis of a Trump speech that he shared online. David?s detailed analysis responding as critique trying to get ?behind? Trump?s text. Umberto Eco has a two level theory of Model readers which explores the distinction between semioSIc interpretation and semioTIc interpretation. Semiosic interpretation is ?semantic? interpretation whereas semiotic interpretation is critical interpretation. Semiosic/semantic interpretation is the process by which the listener/addressee, encountering a textual linear manifestation ?fills? this textual manifestation with A GIVEN meaning that confirms a prejudice. This is a natural semiosic phenomenon that reader-response theory explores. Semiotic/critical interpretation, on the other hand, is a metalinguistic activity which ?aims at? describing and explaining the ?formal? reasons for which a given text produces a given response (and in this sense semiotic/critical interpretation can also assume the form of an aesthetic response analysis). Every text can be navigated through both semiosic and semiotic interpretation. Ordinary sentences expect ONLY a semiosic/semantic response but the same text uttered by a scholar exploring semantic ?ambiguity? FORSEES a semiotic/critical reader/addressee. Umberto Eco says that many texts aim at producing TWO model readers, a ?first? level semiosic one supposed to understand semantically what the text says and a ?second? level semiotic one who appreciates ?the way in which? the text says so. The semiotic reader FORSEES a semiosic reader who keeps wondering ambiguously which meaning to ?fill up? the linear text. The semiotic/critical reader suposedly looks at the textual environment explaining univocally and formally the ?syntactic? reasons that make the sentence ambiguous. A semiotic model reader is able to enjoy a SECOND reading, exploring the strategies implemented by which the first-level semiosic reader has been designed. The semiosic reader is planned or instructed by the verbal strategy whereas the semiotic/critical reader reader is such on the grounds of an interpretive decision. Nothing in text appearing as an ?explicit appeal? to a second level reading. However, stylistic violations of the norm (d?familiarisation) work as self-focussing appeals?: The text is produced in such a way as to attract the attention of a semiotic reader Now returning to Trump and DECEIVING texts. Are they step by step designed deceptions created to deceive semiosic first-level readers? Can semiotic second-level readings prevent semiosic readers from falling into the deceiving, denials as traps?. The necessity of semiotic readings to detect the shock events, whether designed or not. I offered Umberto?s two level approach to distinguish semiosic and semiotic readers/interpreters. How this plays out politically is an open question, but may be relevant going forward. Will semiosic readers resist or actively oppose semiotic readers? When do distinctions become divides that seem unbridgeable? Sent from my Windows 10 phone From: David Kellogg Sent: February 4, 2017 2:51 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Bannon's actions as "shock event" I think that if the immigration ban is designed as a "shock event", we need to think of it more in terms the Kirov assassination or the Reichstag fire or Kristallnacht rather than in terms of the attack on Fort Sumter. These were essentially publicity stunts of no military value. Stockhausen was right to see 9/11 as performance art: in all of these cases, the perpetrators acted on impulse and had no clearer idea of the outcome of their actions than their victims--probably a good deal less clear, given that a lapse of empathy was a precondition of their ability to act. Bannon's assertion that "real power" is when your "enemy" has no idea what you are doing is just his usual Snidely Whiplash rewording of Trump's own inanities (remember the "Secret Plan" to eliminate "ISIS"? "Healthcare for Everybody", anybody?). The muppet show chaos is really just chaos; the regime's reliance on reality-show plot twists and twitter to rule a vast, complex country is just another sign that when you are unimaginative, the mere fact that something is actual and real and immediate does nothing to render it imaginible. Similarly, I think that victory in the civil war was not due to Lincoln's skill at rigging parliamentary coalitions but rather to the sacrifice of half a million northern lives and an overwhelming historical superiority of the Northern social system over that of the south. I don't think history offers shortcuts to social transformations, any more than I think that academics will ever be offered stable, tenured positions for thinking of alternatives to the status quo by the status quo. This isn't pessimism: quite the contrary. It seems to me that what it means is that academics do have a role in exposing chaos as simply due to incompetence and conspiracy theories as just cover-ups for screw-ups. Just as big social problems have only big answers, small ones can have small ones (e.g. a Seattle judge finding that there is no legal way to do things that are fundamentally unconstitutional). David Kellogg Macquarie University On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 4:55 AM, mike cole wrote: > Richard and Alfredo > > I keep coming back to the question of how we, as academics, located in the > system of higher education, researchers on the social creation of social > inequality, ought to be re-orienting our research in light of the > re-surrection of global nationalist/populism. > > So for me, its important to focus on concrete exemplars that might unloose > this potential: "shock events' possibility not only for separating but for > actually offering opportunities to re-organize and unite priorly separated > forces." > > In a recent discussion at LCHC, this topic came up in terms of how to > connect our research and our undergraduates to the life of the communities > whose children do not make it to the university. Such an effort requires > coordination of a variety of dis-articulated groups with a common concern > about socially and culturally marginalized, econonomically stressed, > communities. > > The challenge of engaging successfully in such work and satisfying the > academic production requirements of their academic personnel committees > seems a major challenge. > > Positive suggestions of how to meet this challenge would be warmly > accepted. > > mike > > > > On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 10:33 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > wrote: > > > Thanks for sharing Richard, I had seen Richardson's analysis online. In > > fact the amount of analyses in the media that this crisis is generating > is > > overwhelming, but also very encouraging and gives hopes towards > > Richardson's notes on shock events' possibility not only for separating > but > > for actually offering opportunities to re-organize and unite priorly > > separated forces. I wonder, if Lincoln managed without the web and the > > i-phone, will it happen today? > > > > Alfredo > > ________________________________________ > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > on behalf of Richard Beach > > Sent: 03 February 2017 00:28 > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Bannon's actions as "shock event" > > > > Here?s an interesting analysis of Bannon?s actions on banning immigrants > > that?s related to Bakhtin?s notion of ?eventness? and Roth?s (2014) > > analysis of ?events-in-the-making? associated with the experience of > > unfolding events with unpredictable consequences. We still don?t know > what > > the fallout will be from attempts to implement this ban. > > > > >From Heather Richardson, professor of History at Boston College: > > > > "I don't like to talk about politics on Facebook-- political history is > my > > job, after all, and you are my friends-- but there is an important > > non-partisan point to make today. > > > > What Bannon is doing, most dramatically with last night's ban on > > immigration from seven predominantly Muslim countries-- is creating what > is > > known as a "shock event." > > > > Such an event is unexpected and confusing and throws a society into > chaos. > > People scramble to react to the event, usually along some fault line that > > those responsible for the event can widen by claiming that they alone > know > > how to restore order. > > > > When opponents speak out, the authors of the shock event call them > > enemies. As society reels and tempers run high, those responsible for the > > shock event perform a sleight of hand to achieve their real goal, a goal > > they know to be hugely unpopular, but from which everyone has been > > distracted as they fight over the initial event. There is no longer > > concerted opposition to the real goal; opposition divides along the > > partisan lines established by the shock event. > > > > Last night's Executive Order has all the hallmarks of a shock event. It > > was not reviewed by any governmental agencies or lawyers before it was > > released, and counterterrorism experts insist they did not ask for it. > > People charged with enforcing it got no instructions about how to do so. > > Courts immediately have declared parts of it unconstitutional, but border > > police in some airports are refusing to stop enforcing it. > > > > Predictably, chaos has followed and tempers are hot. > > > > My point today is this: unless you are the person setting it up, it is in > > no one's interest to play the shock event game. It is designed explicitly > > to divide people who might otherwise come together so they cannot stand > > against something its authors think they won't like. > > > > I don't know what Bannon is up to-- although I have some guesses-- but > > because I know Bannon's ideas well, I am positive that there is not a > > single person whom I consider a friend on either side of the aisle-- and > my > > friends range pretty widely-- who will benefit from whatever it is. > > > > If the shock event strategy works, though, many of you will blame each > > other, rather than Bannon, for the fallout. And the country will have > been > > tricked into accepting their real goal. > > > > But because shock events destabilize a society, they can also be used > > positively. We do not have to respond along old fault lines. We could > just > > as easily reorganize into a different pattern that threatens the people > who > > sparked the event. > > > > A successful shock event depends on speed and chaos because it requires > > knee-jerk reactions so that people divide along established lines. This, > > for example, is how Confederate leaders railroaded the initial southern > > states out of the Union. > > > > If people realize they are being played, though, they can reach across > old > > lines and reorganize to challenge the leaders who are pulling the > strings. > > This was Lincoln's strategy when he joined together Whigs, Democrats, > > Free-Soilers, anti-Nebraska voters, and nativists into the new Republican > > Party to stand against the Slave Power. > > > > Five years before, such a coalition would have been unimaginable. Members > > of those groups agreed on very little other than that they wanted all > > Americans to have equal economic opportunity. Once they began to work > > together to promote a fair economic system, though, they found much > common > > ground. They ended up rededicating the nation to a "government of the > > people, by the people, and for the people." > > > > Confederate leaders and Lincoln both knew about the political potential > of > > a shock event. As we are in the midst of one, it seems worth noting that > > Lincoln seemed to have the better idea about how to use it." > > > > > > > > Richard Beach, Professor Emeritus of English Education, University of > > Minnesota > > rbeach@umn.edu > > Websites: Digital writing , Media > > literacy , Teaching > literature > > , Identity-focused ELA Teaching > < > > http://identities.pbworks.com/>, Common Core State Standards < > > http://englishccss.pbworks.com/>, Apps for literacy learning < > > http://usingipads.pbworks.com/>, Teaching about climate change < > > http://climatechangeela.pbworks.com/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 26, 2017, at 10:16 AM, Helena Worthen > > wrote: > > > > > > On the subject of dividing, here is an ugly snapshot of the wedge > > getting driven in ? the building trades unions finding common ground with > > Trump as a ?developer.? The other deeply regressive unions are the prison > > guards and police. > > > > > > http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2017/01/building-trades-allow- > > themselves-to-be-played-like-fools > > > > > > I attend monthly discussion groups in the Bay Area organized around > > readings from the magazine Jacobin. I like these because the other > > participants are mostly 20s and early 30s, techies or grad students. Very > > smart, very alert, very well-read and articulate. They are stamped, > > however, with evidence of never having studied history. (Philosophy, yes > ? > > which is interesting.) To many of them, the building trades and police > > unions are typical of the political position of labor unions. > > > > > > So they see LIUNA leaders meeting with Trump and smear the whole labor > > movement with it. > > > > > > H > > > > > > Helena Worthen > > > helenaworthen@gmail.com > > > Berkeley, CA 94707 > > > Blog about US and Viet Nam: helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > > > > > > > > > > >> On Jan 26, 2017, at 9:26 AM, < > > lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote: > > >> > > >> Yes, > > >> Today, the strategy of dividing, leaving us in disarray, is how i > > experience the deluge of draconian executive ?orders? that leaves me > > spinning. > > >> Leaves me questioning where to start. > > >> > > >> Exposing the disarray on the other side in concrete ways (Koch vs > > Mercer) is a valuable addition to our ways of responding. > > >> > > >> > > >> Sent from my Windows 10 phone > > >> > > >> From: Peg Griffin > > >> Sent: January 26, 2017 8:57 AM > > >> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred > to > > >> > > >> At this point, Larry, I'm content to rise to as much concrete as I can > > get near, until at least the late spring, to get at ideas and > > contradictions, to keep moving and supporting so I'm in enough places to > > and bits of the movement to find the productive places for me. > > >> A mini-mission of mine right now is to get people to recognize the > > divide among the big money folks in the US -- the Mercer father daughter > > beat the Koch brothers within the Republican moneyed. > > >> The other side works hard to divide us and take advantage of the > > disarray, so why not pay attention when they are dividing themselves! > > >> No use being a day late and a dollar short about who's who! > > >> Maybe it's just that my great uncle was in vaudeville and showed us > > three yammering nieces a super card game called "52 pick-up." It's not > too > > good too often for too long but everyone once in a while it's not a bad > > game. > > >> PG > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of lpscholar2@gmail.com > > >> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 11:02 AM > > >> To: Peg Griffin; 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred > to > > >> > > >> Peg, Mike, > > >> Reading these two articles on BigData and remembering how funding will > > be given to academic research that slots into being verified (or negated) > > through BigData is profoundly disturbing and leaves me with a sense of > > inertia at the scope of the alienation involved in this manipulation. > > >> > > >> Using Simmel?s back and forth notion of the relation of (distance and > > intimacy) and finding the proper ratio depending on the events occuring > > then the proper relation between distance and intimacy will be shifting > in > > scope in each historical era. > > >> Will our response to the vast distance incarnated through BIgData > > require intimate responses as counterpoint?? > > >> > > >> If this is LIKE the 1930?s, do we have any answers from the past that > > give glimmers of a way forward that can be responsive at scale to the > > distancing of BigData? > > >> > > >> Sent from my Windows 10 phone > > >> > > >> From: Peg Griffin > > >> Sent: January 25, 2017 5:39 PM > > >> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred > to > > >> > > >> And here's a Guardian story https://www.theguardian.com/ > > us-news/2016/nov/23/donald-trump-cambridge-analytica-steve-bannon for > > those interested in the post-election ties among the Mercers (father and > > daughter), Bannon, Conway, and Cambridge Analytica. > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Peg Griffin > > >> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2017 7:43 PM > > >> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred > to > > >> > > >> Hee hee hee, Mike Cole, you rogue! This is the official Cambridge > > Analytica site https://cambridgeanalytica.org/ But Mike direct you to a > > meatier sit about it! > > >> Peg > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole > > >> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2017 1:41 PM > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred to > > >> > > >> https://antidotezine.com/2017/01/22/trump-knows-you/ > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Tue Feb 7 08:18:31 2017 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2017 16:18:31 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Gunilla's 1996 paper In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1486484311120.76271@iped.uio.no> Hi Laure, I find this online. not the best copy, but one available. See if you can download it (it's 3MB big, can make it smaller and share if you could not download) http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED396824.pdf Hope it helps, Alfredo ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Laure Kloetzer Sent: 07 February 2017 17:01 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Gunilla's 1996 paper Dear colleagues, After a desperate search for Gunilla's classical paper in my Swiss libraries, I am asking the community for some help. Would one of you have a pdf copy of: Lindqvist, G. (1996). The aesthetics of play. A didactic study of play and culture in preschools. *Early Years*, *17*(1), 6-11. Thanks a lot for your help ! Best regards LK From laure.kloetzer@gmail.com Tue Feb 7 08:23:06 2017 From: laure.kloetzer@gmail.com (Laure Kloetzer) Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2017 17:23:06 +0100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Gunilla's 1996 paper In-Reply-To: <1486484311120.76271@iped.uio.no> References: <1486484311120.76271@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: Hi Alfredo, Thanks a lot. That her thesis, which I have, but she published a paper on the very same topic based on this thesis in Early Years, which I am looking for for my students... But my library has this journal only from 1997 on, and that is a 1996 paper... And as his is not a book, they can not request it from another library... Smile, LK 2017-02-07 17:18 GMT+01:00 Alfredo Jornet Gil : > Hi Laure, > > I find this online. not the best copy, but one available. See if you can > download it (it's 3MB big, can make it smaller and share if you could not > download) > http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED396824.pdf > Hope it helps, > Alfredo > ________________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Laure Kloetzer > Sent: 07 February 2017 17:01 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Gunilla's 1996 paper > > Dear colleagues, > > After a desperate search for Gunilla's classical paper in my Swiss > libraries, I am asking the community for some help. Would one of you have a > pdf copy of: > > Lindqvist, G. (1996). The aesthetics of play. A didactic study of play and > culture in preschools. *Early Years*, *17*(1), 6-11. > > Thanks a lot for your help ! > Best regards > LK > From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Tue Feb 7 08:37:30 2017 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2017 16:37:30 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Gunilla's 1996 paper In-Reply-To: <1486484311120.76271@iped.uio.no> References: , <1486484311120.76271@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: <1486485450404.30884@iped.uio.no> I see. Here is the article! I think this time is right. Alfredo ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Alfredo Jornet Gil Sent: 07 February 2017 17:18 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity; laure.kloetzer@gmail.com Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Gunilla's 1996 paper Hi Laure, I find this online. not the best copy, but one available. See if you can download it (it's 3MB big, can make it smaller and share if you could not download) http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED396824.pdf Hope it helps, Alfredo ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Laure Kloetzer Sent: 07 February 2017 17:01 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Gunilla's 1996 paper Dear colleagues, After a desperate search for Gunilla's classical paper in my Swiss libraries, I am asking the community for some help. Would one of you have a pdf copy of: Lindqvist, G. (1996). The aesthetics of play. A didactic study of play and culture in preschools. *Early Years*, *17*(1), 6-11. Thanks a lot for your help ! Best regards LK -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Linqvist 1996 The aesthetics of play Early years.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 1110429 bytes Desc: Linqvist 1996 The aesthetics of play Early years.pdf Url : https://mailman.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/xmca-l/attachments/20170207/7d625fe5/attachment-0001.pdf From laure.kloetzer@gmail.com Tue Feb 7 08:38:45 2017 From: laure.kloetzer@gmail.com (Laure Kloetzer) Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2017 17:38:45 +0100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Gunilla's 1996 paper In-Reply-To: <1486485450404.30884@iped.uio.no> References: <1486484311120.76271@iped.uio.no> <1486485450404.30884@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: Thanks a lot Alfredo ! Best LK 2017-02-07 17:37 GMT+01:00 Alfredo Jornet Gil : > I see. Here is the article! I think this time is right. > > Alfredo > ________________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Alfredo Jornet Gil > Sent: 07 February 2017 17:18 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity; laure.kloetzer@gmail.com > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Gunilla's 1996 paper > > Hi Laure, > > I find this online. not the best copy, but one available. See if you can > download it (it's 3MB big, can make it smaller and share if you could not > download) > http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED396824.pdf > Hope it helps, > Alfredo > ________________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Laure Kloetzer > Sent: 07 February 2017 17:01 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Gunilla's 1996 paper > > Dear colleagues, > > After a desperate search for Gunilla's classical paper in my Swiss > libraries, I am asking the community for some help. Would one of you have a > pdf copy of: > > Lindqvist, G. (1996). The aesthetics of play. A didactic study of play and > culture in preschools. *Early Years*, *17*(1), 6-11. > > Thanks a lot for your help ! > Best regards > LK > From mcole@ucsd.edu Tue Feb 7 09:27:11 2017 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2017 09:27:11 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Gunilla's 1996 paper In-Reply-To: References: <1486484311120.76271@iped.uio.no> <1486485450404.30884@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: Great find, Alfredo! mike On Tue, Feb 7, 2017 at 8:38 AM, Laure Kloetzer wrote: > Thanks a lot Alfredo ! > Best > LK > > > 2017-02-07 17:37 GMT+01:00 Alfredo Jornet Gil : > > > I see. Here is the article! I think this time is right. > > > > Alfredo > > ________________________________________ > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > on behalf of Alfredo Jornet Gil > > Sent: 07 February 2017 17:18 > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity; laure.kloetzer@gmail.com > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Gunilla's 1996 paper > > > > Hi Laure, > > > > I find this online. not the best copy, but one available. See if you can > > download it (it's 3MB big, can make it smaller and share if you could not > > download) > > http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED396824.pdf > > Hope it helps, > > Alfredo > > ________________________________________ > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > on behalf of Laure Kloetzer > > Sent: 07 February 2017 17:01 > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Gunilla's 1996 paper > > > > Dear colleagues, > > > > After a desperate search for Gunilla's classical paper in my Swiss > > libraries, I am asking the community for some help. Would one of you > have a > > pdf copy of: > > > > Lindqvist, G. (1996). The aesthetics of play. A didactic study of play > and > > culture in preschools. *Early Years*, *17*(1), 6-11. > > > > Thanks a lot for your help ! > > Best regards > > LK > > > From edmiston.1@osu.edu Tue Feb 7 10:05:36 2017 From: edmiston.1@osu.edu (Edmiston, Brian W.) Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2017 18:05:36 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Gunilla's 1996 paper In-Reply-To: <1486485450404.30884@iped.uio.no> References: <1486484311120.76271@iped.uio.no> <1486485450404.30884@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: <4D6F5A74-ABFD-4FAD-989A-65F0A22AA065@osu.edu> Thanks so much, Alfredo Laure, you might be interested in this chapter of mine in which I build on Lindqvist?s work It's coming out in the new Routledge Handbook of Early Childhood Play (I know Beth has a chapter in there too) Brian Edmiston > On 7 Feb 2017, at 11:37 am, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > > I see. Here is the article! I think this time is right. > > Alfredo > ________________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Alfredo Jornet Gil > Sent: 07 February 2017 17:18 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity; laure.kloetzer@gmail.com > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Gunilla's 1996 paper > > Hi Laure, > > I find this online. not the best copy, but one available. See if you can download it (it's 3MB big, can make it smaller and share if you could not download) > http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED396824.pdf > Hope it helps, > Alfredo > ________________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Laure Kloetzer > Sent: 07 February 2017 17:01 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Gunilla's 1996 paper > > Dear colleagues, > > After a desperate search for Gunilla's classical paper in my Swiss > libraries, I am asking the community for some help. Would one of you have a > pdf copy of: > > Lindqvist, G. (1996). The aesthetics of play. A didactic study of play and > culture in preschools. *Early Years*, *17*(1), 6-11. > > Thanks a lot for your help ! > Best regards > LK > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: EdmistonChangingOurWorldFINAL.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 58994 bytes Desc: EdmistonChangingOurWorldFINAL.docx Url : https://mailman.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/xmca-l/attachments/20170207/0c628573/attachment.bin From vygotsky@unm.edu Tue Feb 7 11:07:35 2017 From: vygotsky@unm.edu (Vera John-Steiner) Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2017 12:07:35 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: forms of activism In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <008901d28175$732cfa90$5986efb0$@edu> Fine article, thanks for sharing it with all of us. Vera -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Peter Smagorinsky Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2017 3:46 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] forms of activism Many of us are better at writing than marching. My colleague Larry Nackerud wrote this essay for today's local paper. [Home] Posted February 6, 2017 02:52 pm By Larry Nackerud ________________________________ Nackerud: Fear won't make America great Newly elected President Donald Trump promised to "Make America Great Again," but instead, through his early actions, he has shown how afraid we are as a nation. To protect ourselves from Mexicans we must build a wall. To protect ourselves from Muslims we must suspend our political refugee program. It is important to remember that persons seeking political refugee status do so after fleeing their homes and countries of origin due to persecution. These persons are persecuted because of their religion, their nationality, their membership in a social group or a political opinion they hold. A small number of these persons fleeing persecution are accepted for resettlement in countries like Canada, Sweden, Norway, France, Spain, Germany, and Italy. The United States used to be a leader among this group of countries. The United States used to be a leader in the world for providing a safe haven for persecuted persons. Filtered into that provision of a safe haven for persecuted persons was our country's respect for and acceptance of cultural and religious differences. But now, as part of the fearmongering campaign that characterizes Mr. Trump's early days, the United States has lost its position of prominence in the international community. Shutting down our entire refugee program by banning, even temporarily, particular persecuted persons from particular countries reveals not our strength as a nation, but our weakness and our fear. When did the people of the United States become so afraid and the nation become a house of fear? To promote liberty, freedom and respect for all persons takes courage. I believe Mr. Trump has succeeded in showing us that fear and isolationism, not courage, is his and his followers' preferred method to "Make America Great Again." Larry Nackerud [http://cdn3.gigya.com/gs/i/comments2/Avatar_empty_x1.png] From laure.kloetzer@gmail.com Tue Feb 7 10:56:32 2017 From: laure.kloetzer@gmail.com (Laure Kloetzer) Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2017 19:56:32 +0100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Gunilla's 1996 paper In-Reply-To: <4D6F5A74-ABFD-4FAD-989A-65F0A22AA065@osu.edu> References: <1486484311120.76271@iped.uio.no> <1486485450404.30884@iped.uio.no> <4D6F5A74-ABFD-4FAD-989A-65F0A22AA065@osu.edu> Message-ID: Dear Brian, Thank you so much for sharing ! Very interesting for me indeed. I decided to work on play with my students this semester as it is a wonderful and engaging entry into a lot of fascinating dimensions of learning & culture. I also plan to make them work on classical works by Piaget and Vygotsky, and help them test the hypotheses of these authors on real observations of play. Best, LK 2017-02-07 19:05 GMT+01:00 Edmiston, Brian W. : > Thanks so much, Alfredo > > Laure, you might be interested in this chapter of mine in which I build on > Lindqvist?s work > It's coming out in the new Routledge Handbook of Early Childhood Play > (I know Beth has a chapter in there too) > > Brian Edmiston > > > > > On 7 Feb 2017, at 11:37 am, Alfredo Jornet Gil > wrote: > > > > I see. Here is the article! I think this time is right. > > > > Alfredo > > ________________________________________ > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Alfredo Jornet Gil > > Sent: 07 February 2017 17:18 > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity; laure.kloetzer@gmail.com > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Gunilla's 1996 paper > > > > Hi Laure, > > > > I find this online. not the best copy, but one available. See if you can > download it (it's 3MB big, can make it smaller and share if you could not > download) > > http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED396824.pdf > > Hope it helps, > > Alfredo > > ________________________________________ > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Laure Kloetzer > > Sent: 07 February 2017 17:01 > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Gunilla's 1996 paper > > > > Dear colleagues, > > > > After a desperate search for Gunilla's classical paper in my Swiss > > libraries, I am asking the community for some help. Would one of you > have a > > pdf copy of: > > > > Lindqvist, G. (1996). The aesthetics of play. A didactic study of play > and > > culture in preschools. *Early Years*, *17*(1), 6-11. > > > > Thanks a lot for your help ! > > Best regards > > LK > > > > From bferholt@gmail.com Wed Feb 8 08:44:58 2017 From: bferholt@gmail.com (Beth Ferholt) Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2017 11:44:58 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Gunilla's 1996 paper In-Reply-To: References: <1486484311120.76271@iped.uio.no> <1486485450404.30884@iped.uio.no> <4D6F5A74-ABFD-4FAD-989A-65F0A22AA065@osu.edu> Message-ID: Let Monica and I know if there are others you are looking for, Laura, and maybe this is helpful? She wrote several things that should be read more than they are! Or more should be translated... Beth On Tue, Feb 7, 2017 at 1:56 PM, Laure Kloetzer wrote: > Dear Brian, > > Thank you so much for sharing ! Very interesting for me indeed. > > I decided to work on play with my students this semester as it is a > wonderful and engaging entry into a lot of fascinating dimensions of > learning & culture. I also plan to make them work on classical works by > Piaget and Vygotsky, and help them test the hypotheses of these authors on > real observations of play. > > Best, > LK > > > > > > > 2017-02-07 19:05 GMT+01:00 Edmiston, Brian W. : > > > Thanks so much, Alfredo > > > > Laure, you might be interested in this chapter of mine in which I build > on > > Lindqvist?s work > > It's coming out in the new Routledge Handbook of Early Childhood Play > > (I know Beth has a chapter in there too) > > > > Brian Edmiston > > > > > > > > > On 7 Feb 2017, at 11:37 am, Alfredo Jornet Gil > > wrote: > > > > > > I see. Here is the article! I think this time is right. > > > > > > Alfredo > > > ________________________________________ > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > on behalf of Alfredo Jornet Gil > > > Sent: 07 February 2017 17:18 > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity; laure.kloetzer@gmail.com > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Gunilla's 1996 paper > > > > > > Hi Laure, > > > > > > I find this online. not the best copy, but one available. See if you > can > > download it (it's 3MB big, can make it smaller and share if you could not > > download) > > > http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED396824.pdf > > > Hope it helps, > > > Alfredo > > > ________________________________________ > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > on behalf of Laure Kloetzer > > > Sent: 07 February 2017 17:01 > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Gunilla's 1996 paper > > > > > > Dear colleagues, > > > > > > After a desperate search for Gunilla's classical paper in my Swiss > > > libraries, I am asking the community for some help. Would one of you > > have a > > > pdf copy of: > > > > > > Lindqvist, G. (1996). The aesthetics of play. A didactic study of play > > and > > > culture in preschools. *Early Years*, *17*(1), 6-11. > > > > > > Thanks a lot for your help ! > > > Best regards > > > LK > > > > > > > > -- Beth Ferholt Assistant Professor Department of Early Childhood and Art Education Brooklyn College, City University of New York 2900 Bedford Avenue Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu Phone: (718) 951-5205 Fax: (718) 951-4816 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 4.FerholtNilsson2014.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 290298 bytes Desc: not available Url : https://mailman.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/xmca-l/attachments/20170208/5b195661/attachment.pdf From boblake@georgiasouthern.edu Wed Feb 8 09:12:49 2017 From: boblake@georgiasouthern.edu (Robert Lake) Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2017 12:12:49 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fate of a Man In-Reply-To: References: <048522a2-cca0-3e56-cae2-f2142b9fbd5a@mira.net> <1484427999407.2877@iped.uio.no> <2270f5e7-7d82-5150-89a3-808a4e20b89b@mira.net> <9B8D2964-0926-4976-91F2-CDD51E50A6F5@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Everyone, This is not on the current threads directly but I thought you all would be interested to take a look at the first 40 pages or so from Wolff Michael-Roth's new book on LSV and Spinoza. Robert Lake https://www.sensepublishers.com/catalogs/bookseries/new-directions-in-mathematics-and-science-education/the-mathematics-of-mathematics/ On Mon, Feb 6, 2017 at 1:33 PM, Beth Ferholt wrote: > That is a great quote from Vasilyuk, thank you Andy, and I agree, Chris, > definitely some perezhivanie could come after the film Manchester ... but > we don't see if it will or not. Beth > > On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 11:20 PM, Andy Blunden wrote: > > > Your post is so rich, Beth, .... Fedor Vasilyuk says, on the topic of > > psychotherapy practice, that the very first thing a patient says when you > > meet 'em should be what you work with. > > > > Unfortunately, the DVD of "Manchester" is not released here till February > > 21. I'll certainly be watching it then though. > > > > Andy > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Andy Blunden > > http://home.mira.net/~andy > > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making > > On 6/02/2017 3:02 PM, Christopher Schuck wrote: > > > >> Beth, I really like your point at the beginning about how interruptions > >> can > >> help us understand perezhivanie. Perhaps you were only referring to > >> specific kinds of interruptions (politics and children), but I am also > >> reminded of the way that many stories and films are periodically > >> "interrupted," as we return to the outer frame of the narrator and his > >> listener who briefly pause to reflect on the story-in-progress before > >> plunging back in. Notably, in Fate of a Man this does *not* happen; the > >> outer narrative only bookends the main story at beginning and end. > >> > >> This was a very rich post, and I suspect that everyone will be picking > it > >> apart for quite some time. But two very quick thoughts. You write: "I > >> think > >> perezhivanie is about truth, somehow, although I am not sure how." > Later: > >> "we won't understand this process until we see children as full people. > >> And > >> simultaneously as children." (Unlike, for instance, in Fate of a Man.) > >> Perhaps the relevance of truth to perezhivanie has something to do with > >> the > >> fact that people cannot genuinely co-create something in the sense of > >> playmakers if one is deceiving the other? If the adult deliberately > >> misleads the child for his own welfare (as in Life Is Beautiful), > however > >> ethical, there is a hierarchical relationship implied which would appear > >> to > >> be at odds with the spirit of shared perezhivanie. > >> > >> Second, re. Manchester By the Sea: I wonder if an alternate reading > might > >> be that perezhivanie *is* possible, but it has only barely started by > the > >> movie's end. I see any potential perezhivanie occurring not with the > >> ex-wife, but with the teenager. Might the intimate way that they bicker > >> and > >> argue, and develop a distinctive rapport, have anything to do with this? > >> The teenager seems to be teaching Casey Affleck something no one else > can > >> tell him....I'm not sure. > >> > >> Chris > >> > >> On Sunday, February 5, 2017, Beth Ferholt >> > wrote: > >> > >> Thanks for the calling out to Monica and me, Mike and Andy -- I had to > >>> stop > >>> checking XMCA for a couple of weeks so I did not see the discussion or > >>> your > >>> notes to me in the chain, until today. One of the the strengths of > XMCA > >>> is > >>> that it creates a conversation that can include people who can not > always > >>> respond that very day, or even week, due to various forms of > >>> interruption! > >>> Often these "interruptions" are children or political events, which can > >>> help us to understand perezhivanie. > >>> > >>> As well as spending time at JFK, recently, many of us here in New York > >>> have > >>> been attending local protests to keep our neighborhoods feeling safe > for > >>> everyone. I live in a neighborhood in Brooklyn that includes several > >>> Muslim communities and several Jewish communities (as well as a few > >>> Russian > >>> and Polish communities), and at the local protests these past few weeks > >>> some people have had photographs of their family members who were > killed > >>> by > >>> the Nazis attached to the back of their "never again" signs. Also we > all, > >>> Muslim, Jewish, etc. families, have been often bringing our children > to > >>> the protests. > >>> > >>> So I have been thinking a lot about children and hope, during the past > >>> few > >>> weeks. It is within this frame that I saw this film. I think the film > >>> was > >>> expecting us to see the child as only benefitting from the main > >>> character's > >>> lying, saying that he was the child's father, and of course the child > did > >>> benefit, but I think that perezhivanie is about truth, somehow, > although > >>> I > >>> am not sure how. > >>> > >>> My second thought is that Manchester by the Sea must have been > >>> referencing > >>> this film, with its return-to-the-space-where-the-house-was scene, and > >>> also > >>> with the choice to replace the lost self (as father) / family or no. I > >>> think it might help this conversation if we all saw both films, > actually. > >>> Two thoughts on this methods suggestion for our conversation, before I > >>> return to the topic itself. > >>> > >>> 1) It is odd how closely the two films are related, as I did not know > >>> that > >>> the two films were related when I told Chris to see Manchester by the > Sea > >>> in relation to thinking about perezhivanie. I told Chris when I saw > him > >>> in > >>> person, and I think that discussions about perezhivanie are often > >>> different > >>> in person. We learned at LCHC in the 2004/5 playworld projects that > >>> these > >>> in person discussions about perezhivanie have a pronounced proleptic > >>> structure, mirroring the topic of study, such that the conclusion of > the > >>> discussion appears at the start: It feels like magic is happening. (I > >>> think this has something to do with how good teachers see the things in > >>> their classroom that are useful or no before they happen or "behind > their > >>> heads" ... when you are very present you have this "sixth sense," which > >>> is > >>> really an experience of time moving in two directions at once ... being > >>> very present can often require a lot of in person time and being with > >>> children speeds up the process.) > >>> > >>> 2) It is a strength that the XMCA conversations can continue through > all > >>> of > >>> our different schedules. It is a negative that they are not in person, > >>> and > >>> seeing films together can really help. This is where we went on the > >>> perezhivanie facebook page when it was briefly in English and in > Russian > >>> -- > >>> with a film, and it was very helpful. (Of course I am thinking of this > >>> while considering the changing role and form of LCHC and Mike's > >>> participation in LCHC and XMCA. I am thinking of the mistakes that are > >>> communication. A story about this that I thought of recently, which > >>> shows > >>> this point well, and seems worth retelling BECAUSE when studying > >>> perezhivanie the form is often (always??) the study of the content: As > a > >>> newish graduate student Mike once said "thank you" to me when I made a > >>> comment in the afternoon about an AM conversation that day. Mike's > >>> "thank > >>> you" encouraged me to pay extra attention to this comment/thought of > >>> mine, > >>> which later became important in our analysis of a difficult-to-decipher > >>> playworld event. I was thinking of this event as I walked and talked > >>> with > >>> a doctoral student of my own -- I seem to have a heavily spacial memory > >>> process and my student and I were walking through a doorway -- and I > >>> suddenly realized that Mike could have been thanking me for holding the > >>> door for him at this time in the past when his feedback was so > important > >>> to > >>> me ... maybe he did not hear my comment, but just thanked me for > holding > >>> the door ... in fact it now appears to me that this was probably the > >>> case!) > >>> > >>> The interesting thing to me about the above 2 points is the framing. > It > >>> IS > >>> the "()" within the "()" that interests me. Maybe Framing is all > >>> communication or all thought or consciousness ... Bateson? ... but I > >>> think > >>> we need to tackle framing head on when discussing perezhivanie. The > two > >>> films are very different in regards to framing, I think this is why > they > >>> are most interesting to think about together, but first I have two > >>> citations for thinking about time that I use frequently in my writing > on > >>> perezhivanie. > >>> > >>> These seem worth repeating here, as this thinking about time in > >>> space/time > >>> seems to me to be thinking about framing ... the "()" makes us double > >>> back > >>> in time as we read -- : > >>> > >>> (As to Performance, Alfredo copied the Schechner quote above.) > >>> > >>> Dewey's relation of the notion of object to prolepsis (on XMCA): > >>> Mike (2007) used the term ?temporally double sided? to describe this > >>> phenomenon of growing back and towards the future and the past > >>> simultaneously. > >>> > >>> What I am (still) thinking about, now, most often: > >>> It is the juxtaposition of temporal double sidedness with stages that > >>> creates perezhivanie. What Schechner argues is that this juxtaposition > >>> provides the rhythm that allows us to raise ourselves up and hover, > >>> suspended momentarily in a state of being simultaneously ourselves and > >>> not > >>> ourselves: our past and future selves (someone else). > >>> > >>> So my first point is about framing and my second is about children. > The > >>> Fate Of Man is all about the frames / "()". The stories are nested > within > >>> eachother, repeating themselves, maybe even sort of like a fractal, or > >>> anyhow a spiral? I have some congenital prosopagnosia, getting worse > as > >>> I > >>> age and definitely bad with a film like this. I kept thinking we were > >>> back > >>> at the ferry as the form of the conversation and context images > repeated > >>> themselves, as I could not recognize the face of the character who was > >>> the > >>> audience for our hero's story! Manchester by the Sea, on the other > hand, > >>> had no frames. We just jumped right in and rode it through. I only saw > >>> Manchester once but do others think this is true? relevant? > >>> > >>> I think that the question of children's position in relation to adult > >>> perezhivanie is central in both of these films. The children in both of > >>> these films appear to want the main characters to try again at being > >>> fathers. This is a critique of films about children -- I can not think > >>> of > >>> the name of the person who made this critique, but I can find it for > >>> anyone > >>> if needed -- : We adults often make films not about children but about > >>> our > >>> own childhoods. We make films about children who are no longer with > us. > >>> But is this really best for the films, as films are usually best when > >>> they > >>> are somehow in dialogue with their topic, this is a characteristic of > the > >>> medium, no? > >>> > >>> If you do not have some pretense, some playing again, you can not have > >>> perezhivanie. But I think that Fate of Man is not about perezhivanie, > >>> although in a different way than Manchester by the Sea is not about > >>> perezhivanie. In Manchester by the Sea there is no other with whom to > >>> perezhivanie because the main character and his former wife still love > >>> each > >>> other, or at lease he still loves her and she returns enough of the > love > >>> to > >>> keep him loving her, and neither of them can pull the other up because > >>> they > >>> both hit bottom together and in the same story. In Fate of Man there > is > >>> is > >>> no chance for perezhivanie because the other needs to be involved in > some > >>> honest way, or there is no dialogue. > >>> > >>> In Fate of Man the hero seems to me to be playing out his memory in the > >>> real world. A child is not an other with whom one can ever > perezhivanie. > >>> This is not perezhivanie as there is no real world as a player, and > this > >>> is > >>> why our hero's heart will fail him. He did not reach bottom and then > >>> start > >>> to pull himself up by connecting with another with great bravery. > >>> Instead, > >>> as he says himself, he just snapped -- he is now living in a dream. > >>> > >>> As Larry put it, above in this chain: "In other words, navigating > through > >>> the suffering and existential emptiness is not a hero?s journey." And > >>> this > >>> point is relevant, again, to our method for studying perezhivanie. I > >>> don't > >>> think we can manage this one on our own (XMCA), even as a group that > >>> allows > >>> for conversations over extended time periods. > >>> > >>> If form and content are related in this process, I'd say that we won't > >>> understand this process until we see children as full people. And > >>> simultaneously as children. Children have something to tell us about > >>> this > >>> process that no one else can tell us, and they are not going to tell us > >>> this in a way that those of us who are researchers/scholars can listen, > >>> without the bridge of the teacher voices. How to include these voices > in > >>> our research is key. And the answer has something to do with art, as > >>> well > >>> as with time and space. > >>> > >>> I am going to send this as it is long enough already, and then catch up > >>> with the related chains after I do ... And I won't say more now, but I > >>> agree with all the people who thought this was a great pick to start > the > >>> discussion. Many levels to discuss and I also found many aspects of > the > >>> film related to perezhivanie in many ways! Beth > >>> > >>> On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 11:51 PM, Andy Blunden > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>> How about a documentary movie about the first Trump voter who dies as a > >>>> result of repeal of Obama Care? That would be a perezhivanie within a > >>>> perezhivanie! > >>>> > >>>> Andy > >>>> > >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ > >>>> Andy Blunden > >>>> http://home.mira.net/~andy > >>>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making > >>>> On 21/01/2017 12:03 PM, Helena Worthen wrote: > >>>> > >>>> I am late to this discussion, but I have been paying attention. I was > >>>>> reluctant to expose myself to the emotional challenges of the film. I > >>>>> > >>>> knew > >>> > >>>> that between the majestic music, the stunning black and white images, > >>>>> > >>>> the > >>> > >>>> beautiful human faces and bodies (and some very ugly ones), and the > >>>>> > >>>> twists > >>> > >>>> of the story, I was going to be deeply moved. However, I have been > >>>>> > >>>> reading > >>> > >>>> two books by Svetlana Alexievich -- Voices from Chernobyl and > Secondhand > >>>>> Time - which tell equally heartbreaking, horrifying stories of > >>>>> > >>>> suffering. > >>> > >>>> Reading her work inclines me to place the film in the context of the > >>>>> > >>>> period > >>> > >>>> of deStalinization after Kruschev's 1956 speech to the 20th Congress > of > >>>>> > >>>> the > >>> > >>>> CPSU, which gave the signal that it was permissible to begin to talk > >>>>> > >>>> freely > >>> > >>>> about Soviet history. It was a period of trying to build a story that > >>>>> > >>>> could > >>> > >>>> explain and honor, if not justify, the extreme suffering of the Soviet > >>>>> people. This film seems to me to set out to accomplish that. So does > >>>>> Alexievich's book, which is a compilation of interviews done between > >>>>> > >>>> 1991 > >>> > >>>> and 2012, with people who had something to say (good and bad) about > the > >>>>> Soviet regime and the experience of its dissolution. She got the 2015 > >>>>> > >>>> Nobel > >>> > >>>> Prize for this book. And I sense that Andy, or someone, is > anticipating > >>>>> that the US is going to have to produce some works of scholarship or > >>>>> > >>>> art, > >>> > >>>> or both, that attempt to explain what is happening now here in the US > -- > >>>>> for example, this afternoon, under President Trump. > >>>>> > >>>>> Helena Worthen > >>>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com > >>>>> Vietnam blog: helenaworthen.wordpress.com > >>>>> > >>>>> On Jan 19, 2017, at 4:00 PM, Christopher Schuck wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> For some reason I couldn't see the subtitles showing up in Fate of a > >>>>> Man > >>>>> > >>>>>> the first time, so I started to watch it dubbed in English instead. > >>>>>> But > >>>>>> the > >>>>>> mannered Hollywood accents definitely were not exactly helping to > >>>>>> > >>>>> convey > >>> > >>>> the "real Russian soul" Robbins talks about! It felt like I was being > >>>>>> asked > >>>>>> to imagine Cary Grant inhabiting Andrei's perezhivanie-ing body. > So, I > >>>>>> started over with the subtitled version. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Here are some quick initial reflections: wonderful movie, and in > >>>>>> Andrei > >>>>>> one > >>>>>> of the more memorable characters I have seen. But I also found > myself > >>>>>> thinking how big a difference there is between watching a film on my > >>>>>> 12-inch laptop with headphones (my only option at the moment), and > >>>>>> sitting > >>>>>> back and immersing yourself in a darkened theater or at least on a > >>>>>> widescreen TV without any other distractions, allowing ourselves to > >>>>>> > >>>>> "fall > >>> > >>>> into this space" by virtue of our very awareness of the illusion > >>>>>> generated > >>>>>> by the frame, as Beth and Monica put it. This difference becomes > even > >>>>>> bigger if the screen you're viewing it on also enables you to > quickly > >>>>>> check > >>>>>> email from time to time during the movie, as many people do these > >>>>>> days. > >>>>>> If > >>>>>> we are to consider the film experience as a model (analogy?) for > >>>>>> perezhivanie or even a certain kind of simulation of it, this effect > >>>>>> > >>>>> that > >>> > >>>> occurs when we lose ourselves in a film would be undermined by an > >>>>>> especially small frame or poor viewing conditions. At what point > does > >>>>>> "the > >>>>>> knowledge that the movement we experience is just an illusion" (p. 2 > >>>>>> in > >>>>>> their article) undermine the perezhivanie-like quality of film as > >>>>>> > >>>>> opposed > >>> > >>>> to forming an integral part of it? And, might the way distraction > >>>>>> functions > >>>>>> to undermine perezhivanie in the context of film in any way mirror > how > >>>>>> > >>>>> we > >>> > >>>> "distract" ourselves in the course of living lives from conscious > >>>>>> engagement with the perezhivanie we are otherwise undergoing? Is > >>>>>> > >>>>> viewing > >>> > >>>> a > >>>>>> film on a 12-inch screen while checking email and calling it an > >>>>>> "experience" in any way analogous to the self-deceptions and escapes > >>>>>> we > >>>>>> engage in during the course of either experience-as-struggle or > >>>>>> experience-as-contemplation? I did not check email while watching > Fate > >>>>>> of a > >>>>>> Man, by the way. Just in case you're wondering. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> As for the film itself: I was struck by the incidental way in which > >>>>>> the > >>>>>> earlier loss of his childhood family is introduced and acknowledged > at > >>>>>> the > >>>>>> very outset, and how this contrasts with the dramatic ongoing > >>>>>> perezhivanie > >>>>>> that ensues going forward: it is as if this early loss is "taken for > >>>>>> granted" as also part of the Russian experience. We are not privy > to > >>>>>> > >>>>> any > >>> > >>>> perezhivanie he might have presumably undergone before that point; it > >>>>>> > >>>>> is > >>> > >>>> simply not "within the frame." At several points, I was reminded of > >>>>>> Satyajit's World of Apu (last movie in his trilogy), where there was > >>>>>> also a > >>>>>> set of early losses and a relationship formed with a "son." Have any > >>>>>> of > >>>>>> you > >>>>>> seen it? I think it would also be a good example of perezhivanie. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I would not want to overemphasize the use of literary motifs, since > >>>>>> Bondarchuk was presumably not making any references to the concept > of > >>>>>> perezhivanie as such. But there were several devices that evoked > Beth > >>>>>> > >>>>> and > >>> > >>>> Monica's passage from To The Lighthouse ("Time stand still here"), and > >>>>>> their metaphor of a life (or more specifically, a perezhivanie > within > >>>>>> a > >>>>>> life) spiraling back over itself to bring two disparate moments into > >>>>>> juxtaposition in a way such that "your life becomes > three-dimensional > >>>>>> again" (p. 2). One occurs in the various scenes when Andrei gazes up > >>>>>> at > >>>>>> the > >>>>>> sky in reverie and all we see are clouds, or the scene where he lies > >>>>>> in > >>>>>> the > >>>>>> grass after his first escape and the camera pans back as it becomes > >>>>>> > >>>>> very > >>> > >>>> quiet, leaving nothing but him swallowed up in the vastness of nature. > >>>>>> There is a certain timeless quality to these scenes, a sense that he > >>>>>> is > >>>>>> momentarily transcending the linear temporal flow of his life as he > >>>>>> either > >>>>>> stands outside it and "stands still" in it. It could be a thousand > >>>>>> > >>>>> years > >>> > >>>> passing by in those clouds, or just the 17 years of his second phase; > >>>>>> > >>>>> it > >>> > >>>> suddenly doesn't matter. Another thing I noticed was the use of the > two > >>>>>> musical themes: the love song the accordionist plays for him and > >>>>>> Irina, > >>>>>> and > >>>>>> the festive music incongruously piped in at the concentration camp > >>>>>> > >>>>> during > >>> > >>>> that amazing scene around Part 1, minute 45 where the prisoners are > >>>>>> > >>>>> being > >>> > >>>> marched in and the crematorium is going full blast down the road. At > >>>>>> > >>>>> some > >>> > >>>> point (I couldn't relocate it) Andrei has a flashback where he > revisits > >>>>>> the > >>>>>> love song and his memories of Irina; then at minute 20 in Part 2, > >>>>>> while > >>>>>> processing his family's death after coming home from the war, he > finds > >>>>>> himself hearing the concentration camp song on the record player and > >>>>>> is > >>>>>> suddenly transported back to that traumatic experience. Yet he does > >>>>>> not > >>>>>> smash the record right away; he stares at it for a minute, almost as > >>>>>> if > >>>>>> he > >>>>>> is resituating these two moments in relation to each other. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Perhaps I am overanalyzing, but I found both these motifs to speak > to > >>>>>> Beth > >>>>>> and Monica's examples in the way they bring two moments back into > >>>>>> > >>>>> contact > >>> > >>>> with each other. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Finally, Mike and Andy's discussion in the Misha thread about the > >>>>>> watching > >>>>>> of a film functioning as perezhivanie for those viewers for whom it > >>>>>> reflects and repeats their own experience, raises a question about > the > >>>>>> difference between extended perezhivanie and the personal > re-enactment > >>>>>> > >>>>> of > >>> > >>>> one's perezhivanie within a much smaller time scale (the two or three > >>>>>> hours > >>>>>> spent watching the movie). I hope at some point we could delve more > >>>>>> > >>>>> into > >>> > >>>> this issue of time frame and time scale in various forms of > >>>>>> > >>>>> perezhivanie. > >>> > >>>> Chris > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 8:39 PM, Andy Blunden > >>>>>> > >>>>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Thank you Marc! It was the third "plane" which was my intention in > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> providing "Fate of a Man" for discussion. You picked out what were > >>>>>>> for > >>>>>>> me > >>>>>>> also the main (but by no means the only) instances of perezhivanija > >>>>>>> in > >>>>>>> this > >>>>>>> movie. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> It seems to me that Sokolov (the author) offers one perezhivanie in > >>>>>>> particular as the main theme of the movie. At the beginning of the > >>>>>>> movie, > >>>>>>> the man and boy walk up the path to the camera and at the end of > the > >>>>>>> movie > >>>>>>> they walk off together again. So this is the central theme. As you > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> say, > >>> > >>>> when Sokolov's family has all been killed, even his talented war-hero > >>>>>>> son > >>>>>>> who was going to be a famous mathematician, his life has become > >>>>>>> meaningless. I really liked your reflections of Sokolov's > reflections > >>>>>>> too. > >>>>>>> He sees the young orphan boy who, he discovers, has no family and > >>>>>>> doesn't > >>>>>>> even know what town he comes from, but is aimlessly living on > pieces > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> of > >>> > >>>> rubbish. He sees that the two of them are in the same situation. So > >>>>>>> after > >>>>>>> some time mulling this over a they sit together in the truck, he > lies > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> to > >>> > >>>> the boy and tells him that he is the boy's father, and they embrace. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> But > >>> > >>>> the boy questions this and he reasserts his claim and the boy accepts > >>>>>>> this. > >>>>>>> The man is able to define a new meaning for his life; he has done > >>>>>>> this > >>>>>>> autonomously without the help of a therapist, but he still needs > >>>>>>> another, > >>>>>>> the boy, to embody that meaning. But he knows it is his own > >>>>>>> invention. > >>>>>>> The > >>>>>>> boy on the other hand has to be made to believe it is true; he is > not > >>>>>>> sufficiently mature to manufacture this meaning himself, but as a > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> child > >>> > >>>> he > >>>>>>> can be guided by an adult. As you say, Marc, it is very significant > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> when > >>> > >>>> Sokolov tells us how he is now, again, worried about his own death. > >>>>>>> What if > >>>>>>> I died in my sleep? that would be a shock for my son! > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> For me, this reflection causes me to look back on the man's whole > >>>>>>> struggle > >>>>>>> during the war: in the first phase he does not differentiate > between > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> his > >>> > >>>> life as a father and husband and his life as a Soviet citizen - war is > >>>>>>> his > >>>>>>> duty and he is confident, as is everyone else, of victory. His > >>>>>>> bravery > >>>>>>> in > >>>>>>> driving his truck to the front line under fire reflects the fact > that > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> he > >>> > >>>> has never imagined his own death. Then he finds himself prostrate > >>>>>>> before 2 > >>>>>>> Nazi soldiers who we assume are going among the wounded shooting > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> anyone > >>> > >>>> who > >>>>>>> has survived. But surprisingly, he is allowed to live, but is to be > >>>>>>> used as > >>>>>>> a slave. Sokolov has been confronted by his own mortality for the > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> first > >>> > >>>> time and he chooses life, but accepts slavery (Sartre and Hegel both > >>>>>>> thematize this moment in their philosophy). In this second phase of > >>>>>>> Sokolov's life he is a survivor. Everything hinges on surviving and > >>>>>>> returning to his wife and family. As you point out, Marc, his later > >>>>>>> reflections on this are particularly poignant, when he discovers > the > >>>>>>> futility of this hope. Eventually, the life of forced labour > becomes > >>>>>>> unbearable. He cries out: "Why are we forced to dig 3 cubic metres > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> when > >>> > >>>> 1 > >>>>>>> cubic meter is enough for a grave!" Sokolov has accepted and > embraced > >>>>>>> death > >>>>>>> after all. (Transition to the third phase.) To his German masters > >>>>>>> this > >>>>>>> is > >>>>>>> an unendurable act of defiance. As David points out, there are > flaws > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> in > >>> > >>>> the > >>>>>>> scene which follows, but ... he confronts his own death defiantly, > >>>>>>> stares > >>>>>>> it in the eye, spits on it, and his life again gains meaning as a > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> "brave > >>> > >>>> Soviet soldier" unafraid of death even in such an impossible moment. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> Not > >>> > >>>> only does he survive, but takes the Nazi Colonel prisoner and hands > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> the > >>> > >>>> war > >>>>>>> plans over to the Red Army. Now, when he is offered the chance to > >>>>>>> return to > >>>>>>> his wife as a war hero he declines and asks to be sent back to the > >>>>>>> front. > >>>>>>> His life has adopted this new meaning which casts his life as a > >>>>>>> father > >>>>>>> into > >>>>>>> the shade. He no longer fears death. But he is persuaded to take > time > >>>>>>> off > >>>>>>> and learns of the death of his family. As Marc relates, the > continued > >>>>>>> survival of his son, who is now also a war hero, provides continued > >>>>>>> meaning > >>>>>>> and integrates the two themes in his life. This takes work, as Marc > >>>>>>> points > >>>>>>> out, and he has the assistance of an older man, in achieving this > >>>>>>> redefinition of his life. But tragically, with the death of his son > >>>>>>> (and NB > >>>>>>> the end of the war, albeit in victory) his life is again without > >>>>>>> meaning. > >>>>>>> Fourth phase. He has survived, but has no purpose. By becoming a > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> father > >>> > >>>> again (Fifth phase), he regains the fear of death and meaning in his > >>>>>>> life. > >>>>>>> It is real work, and we witness this psychological turmoil as he > >>>>>>> copes > >>>>>>> with > >>>>>>> the idea that this scruffy orphan boy could be a son to him, and > >>>>>>> eventually > >>>>>>> he manages it. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> The transition between each phase is a critical period during which > >>>>>>> Sokolov's personality is transformed. Note also, that there is a > >>>>>>> premonition of this perezhivanie in Sokolov's earlier life: his > >>>>>>> family > >>>>>>> is > >>>>>>> wiped out in the Civil War and the famine of 1922, then he meets > his > >>>>>>> wife-to-be, also raised in an orphanage, and they together create a > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> life > >>> > >>>> and have 17 happy years before the Nazi invasion intrudes. So from the > >>>>>>> beginning of the movie we are introduced to the main theme. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> These are the main moments in the movie, which caused me to select > it > >>>>>>> for > >>>>>>> discussion rather than any other movie. Also, there is no doubt > that > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> in > >>> > >>>> producing this movie in 1958 the Soviet government was engaged with > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> its > >>> > >>>> people, in a process of collective perezhivanie and by reflecting on > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> the > >>> > >>>> collective perezhivanie during the period of the war, before and > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> after, > >>> > >>>> they aim to assist the people in collectively assigning meaning to > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> this > >>> > >>>> terrible suffering and like the man and his "son" walking again into > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> the > >>> > >>>> future. As a propaganda movie, of course, it is open to much > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> criticism, > >>> > >>>> but > >>>>>>> that is hardly the point. I appreciate Marc's analysis in terms of > >>>>>>> the > >>>>>>> other concepts he has introduced. I wouldn't mind a recap on these. > >>>>>>> In > >>>>>>> terms of Vasilyuk's concepts, Sokolov's life-world is *simple and > >>>>>>> difficult*. The boy's life world is *simple and easy*. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Can we continue to discuss "Fate of a Man", while I open another > >>>>>>> movie > >>>>>>> for > >>>>>>> analysis? I think there are at least 10 subscribers to this list > who > >>>>>>> have > >>>>>>> published in learned journals on the topic of perezhivanie in > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> childhood. > >>> > >>>> Perhaps one of you would like to reflect on the boy's perezhivanija? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Andy > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ > >>>>>>> Andy Blunden > >>>>>>> http://home.mira.net/~andy > >>>>>>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decisi > >>>>>>> on-making > >>>>>>> On 18/01/2017 5:14 AM, Marc Clar? wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Hi, all, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> and thank you, Andy, for sharing this amazing film, which I didn't > >>>>>>>> know. I > >>>>>>>> think it will be very useful to share and discuss our respective > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> views > >>> > >>>> on > >>>>>>>> perezhivanie. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> In my view, the film could be analyzed in terms of perezhivanie in > >>>>>>>> three > >>>>>>>> different planes. First, we could consider the person who watches > >>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>> film, > >>>>>>>> and we could study how the meaning she forms for the film > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> restructures > >>> > >>>> her > >>>>>>>> relationship with aspects of her real life -such as, for example, > >>>>>>>> her > >>>>>>>> own > >>>>>>>> death or the death of a beloved one, etc. (perhaps this is a > little > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> bit > >>> > >>>> like what Beth and Monica, or Veresov and Fleer, do with their study > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> of > >>> > >>>> playworlds?). In this plane, which would be perhaps the most > >>>>>>>> naturalistic > >>>>>>>> one, the film could be studied as an human-made cultural artifact > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> which > >>> > >>>> restuctures psychological functions; here, the meaning formed for the > >>>>>>>> film > >>>>>>>> by who watches it and uses it as mediator in her relation to her > >>>>>>>> real > >>>>>>>> life > >>>>>>>> would be an m-perezhivanie. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> In a second plane, we could proceed as if the film was real life, > >>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>> we > >>>>>>>> could consider Sokolov telling his story to the man he meets by > the > >>>>>>>> river > >>>>>>>> (a little bit like Carla telling her story to me). In this plane, > >>>>>>>> Sokolov's > >>>>>>>> narrative (i.e., what is showed to us as narrated flashback) could > >>>>>>>> be > >>>>>>>> considered as a cultural artifact that Sokolov uses to relate to > all > >>>>>>>> what > >>>>>>>> happened to him. At this plane, the meaning of this narrative > would > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> be > >>> > >>>> the > >>>>>>>> m-perezhivanie that, in that moment, mediates the relationship > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> between > >>> > >>>> Sokolov and the war events he experienced years ago (but these events > >>>>>>>> are > >>>>>>>> still very present to him, so although relating to past events, > >>>>>>>> there > >>>>>>>> is > >>>>>>>> here a Sokolov's activity [towards the past war events] which is > in > >>>>>>>> present > >>>>>>>> -this echoes Christopher when, within our conversations, said: > ?Part > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> of > >>> > >>>> this might also be a question of what it means to describe and > >>>>>>>> represent > >>>>>>>> one's own perezhivanie figuratively/narratively (whether to > others, > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> or > >>> > >>>> to > >>>>>>>> oneself), as opposed to living that perezhivanie. Especially if > the > >>>>>>>> attempt > >>>>>>>> to capture/represent one's own perezhivanie is, perhaps, also > >>>>>>>> central > >>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>> the living of it?? > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> In a third plane, we could proceed as if Sokolov's narration was > not > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> a > >>> > >>>> retrospective narration, but the on-time sequence of events with > >>>>>>>> on-time > >>>>>>>> Sokolov's explanation of these events (in the moments in which the > >>>>>>>> narrator > >>>>>>>> voice is assumed within the flashback). In this plane, there are > >>>>>>>> several > >>>>>>>> interesting perezhivanie phenomena. Clearly, there is a Sokolov's > >>>>>>>> activity > >>>>>>>> of experiencing-as-struggle, which initiates when he realizes that > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> all > >>> > >>>> his > >>>>>>>> family, except one son, had been killed 2 years ago. At this > moment, > >>>>>>>> his > >>>>>>>> life becomes meaningless; the meaning (m-perezhivanie) he uses to > >>>>>>>> relate > >>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>> all his life (including the past) at this moment is expressed in > his > >>>>>>>> conversation with his oncle: ?it's got to be that this life of > mine > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> is > >>> > >>>> nothing but a nightmare!?. In this moment, Sokolov's past in the > >>>>>>>> prision > >>>>>>>> camp becomes also meaningless: then, his link to life (the > >>>>>>>> m-perezhivanie > >>>>>>>> that made being alive meaningful to him) was meeting his family; > but > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> at > >>> > >>>> that time his family was already dead, so when he discovers it, he > >>>>>>>> realizes > >>>>>>>> that this m-perezhivanie (the idea of meeting his family) was > >>>>>>>> linking > >>>>>>>> him > >>>>>>>> to death, not to life, so all his efforts to surviving become > >>>>>>>> meaningless: > >>>>>>>> ?Every night, when I was a prisioner, I talked with them. Now it > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> turns > >>> > >>>> out > >>>>>>>> that for two years I was talking with the dead??. In this > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> conversation, > >>> > >>>> however, his oncle offers him an alternative m-perezhivanie to relate > >>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>> his life: he still has a son, so the m-perehivanie of meeting his > >>>>>>>> family > >>>>>>>> can still turns Sokolov's life meaningful: ?you've got to go on > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> living. > >>> > >>>> You > >>>>>>>> have to find Anatoly. When the war is over, your son will get > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> married, > >>> > >>>> you > >>>>>>>> will live with them. You will take up your carpentry again, play > >>>>>>>> with > >>>>>>>> your > >>>>>>>> grandkids?. It takes some time to Sokolov to enter into this > >>>>>>>> m-perezhivanie, but he does it and his life becomes meaningful > >>>>>>>> again: > >>>>>>>> ?and > >>>>>>>> then, unexpectedly, I've got a gleam of sunlight?. But, then, > >>>>>>>> Anatoly > >>>>>>>> also > >>>>>>>> dies. How to keep living? Here, Sokolov holds the m-perezhivanie > >>>>>>>> that > >>>>>>>> linked him to life until that moment, and therefore, he needs a > son; > >>>>>>>> pretending being the father of Vanya turns his life meaningful > >>>>>>>> again. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Another interesting thing, still at that level, is how Sokolov's > >>>>>>>> relation > >>>>>>>> with his own immediate death changes along the different occasions > >>>>>>>> in > >>>>>>>> which > >>>>>>>> he faces it. I thing here there are examples of > >>>>>>>> experiencing-as-contemplation -in my view, this is not > >>>>>>>> experiencing-as-struggle because the situation of impossibility > (the > >>>>>>>> immediate death) is removed existentially (Sokolov's life is given > >>>>>>>> back to > >>>>>>>> him), so that there is not a permanent situation of impossibility > >>>>>>>> which is > >>>>>>>> initially meaningless and is turned into meaningful. In each > >>>>>>>> occasion > >>>>>>>> in > >>>>>>>> which Sokolov is faced with his immediate death, the > m-perezhivanie > >>>>>>>> that > >>>>>>>> mediates this relationship is different. When he is captured, his > >>>>>>>> m-perezhivanie is expressed as: ?here's my death coming after me?. > >>>>>>>> When he > >>>>>>>> is conducted to meet the nazi official, the m-perezhivanie is > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> expressed > >>> > >>>> as: > >>>>>>>> ?the end of your misery?, ?to my death and my release of this > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> torment, > >>> > >>>> I > >>>>>>>> will drink?. In the first, the death is running after Sokolov; in > >>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>> second, it is Sokolov happily going to meet death. Later, at the > end > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> of > >>> > >>>> the > >>>>>>>> film, he faces his immediate death again, and the m-perezhivanie > is > >>>>>>>> expressed as: ?I'm really worried that I might die in my sleep, > and > >>>>>>>> that > >>>>>>>> would frighten my little son?. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Well, just some thoughts after watching this wonderful film. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Best regards, > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Marc. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> 2017-01-15 0:06 GMT+01:00 Christopher Schuck < > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> schuckcschuck@gmail.com > >>> > >>>> : > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Yes, definitely that article! And specifically, when I used > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> "pivoting" > >>> > >>>> I > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> couldn't help but think of Beth's earlier example about how a > child > >>>>>>>>> will > >>>>>>>>> use a stick as a pivot for a horse. Perhaps a somewhat different > >>>>>>>>> application but related, no? > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 4:06 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > >>>>>>>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no > >>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Chris, all, > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> your post is totally relevant to Beth's and Monica's article in > the > >>>>>>>>>> special issue. They write about film and perezhivanie (quoting > >>>>>>>>>> Sobchack) > >>>>>>>>>> the following: > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> The reason that film allows us to glimpse the future is that > there > >>>>>>>>>> is a > >>>>>>>>>> connection between filmic time and ?real? time: ?The images of a > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> film > >>> > >>>> exist > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> in the world as a temporal flow, within finitude and situation. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Indeed, > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> fascination of the film is that it does not transcend our > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> lived-experience > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> of temporality, but rather that it seems to partake of it, to > share > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> it? > >>>>>>>>>> (1992, p. 60). > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> And later > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> "Specifically, the way that the flow of time becomes > >>>>>>>>>> multidirectional is > >>>>>>>>>> that ?rehearsals make it necessary to think of the future in > such > >>>>>>>>>> a > >>>>>>>>>> way > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> as > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> to create a past? (1985, p. 39). As Schechner ex-plains: ?In a > very > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> real > >>>>>>>>>> way the future ? the project coming into existence through the > >>>>>>>>>> process > >>>>>>>>>> of > >>>>>>>>>> rehearsal ? determines the past: what will be kept from earlier > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> rehearsals > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> or from the ?source ma-terials? (1985, p. 39)." > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Alfredo > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> ________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> >>> > >>>> du> > >>>>>>>>>> on behalf of Christopher Schuck > >>>>>>>>>> Sent: 14 January 2017 21:43 > >>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fate of a Man > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> But that's both the limitation and strength of art or fictional > >>>>>>>>>> narrative > >>>>>>>>>> as opposed to real life, isn't it? That art focuses our > attention > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> and > >>> > >>>> highlights certain features in a way that is idealized and > >>>>>>>>>> artificially > >>>>>>>>>> "designed" to convey something more clearly and purely (but less > >>>>>>>>>> organically and authentically) than it would be conveyed in the > >>>>>>>>>> course > >>>>>>>>>> of > >>>>>>>>>> living it, or observing someone else living it? One way to get > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> around > >>> > >>>> this > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> would be, as David says, to analyze the film in terms of clues as > >>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>> stages of emergence. But maybe another way to use the film would > >>>>>>>>>> be > >>>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> view > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> it not so much as a complete, self-sufficient "example" of > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> perezhivanie, > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> as > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> a *tool *for pivoting back and forth between the concept of > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> perezhivanie > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> as > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> imaginatively constructed (through fiction), and the concept of > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> perezhivanie as imaginatively constructed (through our real > living > >>>>>>>>>> experience and observation of it). So, it would be the > *pivoting* > >>>>>>>>>> between > >>>>>>>>>> these two manifestations of the concept (designed vs. evolved, > as > >>>>>>>>>> David > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> put > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> it) that reveals new insights about perezhivanie, rather than > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> understanding > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> the concept from the film per se. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 3:08 PM, David Kellogg < > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> dkellogg60@gmail.com > >>> > >>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> I think there's a good reason why Andy started a new thread on > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> this: > >>> > >>>> he's a > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> very tidy thinker (quite unlike yours truly) and he knows that > one > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> reason > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> why xmca threads are seldom cumulative is that they digress to > >>>>>>>>>> related > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> problems without solving the immmediate ones. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Yes, of course, a film allows us to consider an example of > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> "perezhivanie", > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> but it is a designed perezhivanie rather than an evolved one; it > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> doesn't > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> explicitly display the various stages of emergence required for > a > >>>>>>>>>> genetic > >>>>>>>>>> analysis, unless we analyze it not as a complete and finished > work > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> of > >>> > >>>> art > >>>>>>>>>> but instead for clues as to the stages of its creation (the way > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> that, > >>> > >>>> for > >>>>>>>>>> example, "Quietly Flows the Don" was analyzed to determine its > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> authenticity). > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> I remember that In the original short story, the schnapps > >>>>>>>>>>> drinking > >>>>>>>>>>> scene seemed like pure sleight of hand: an artistically > >>>>>>>>>>> gratuitous > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> example > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> of what eventually gave Soviet social realism such a bad name. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> David Kellogg > >>>>>>>>>>> Macquarie University > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 10:04 PM, Carol Macdonald < > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> carolmacdon@gmail.com > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Fellow XMCa-ers > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> I have watched it through now, thank you Andy, but right now > only > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> empirical > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> psychological categories come to mind. I will watch it again > and > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> in > >>> > >>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> meanwhile let my fellows with more recent experience of > >>>>>>>>>>> /perezhivanie/ > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> take > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> the discussion further. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> It is a kind of timeless story, and modern film techniques > would > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> perhaps > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> be > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> more explicit. At the least I would say it has for me a Russian > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> understanding of suffering, perhaps because of their unique > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> experience > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> of > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> it. But having said that, WWII must have generated other similar > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> experiences, apart from the first part about Andrei's family > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> dying > >>> > >>>> in > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> famine. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Carol > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On 14 January 2017 at 02:15, Andy Blunden > >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I watched it in two parts with subtitles: > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16w7fg_destiny-of-a-man- > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 1959-pt-1_creation > >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16wat4_destiny-of-a-man- > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 1959-pt-2_creation > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Andy > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Andy Blunden > >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://home.mira.net/~andy > >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective- > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> decision-making > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On 14/01/2017 2:35 AM, Beth Ferholt wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for taking us to a shared example. I think that > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> having a > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Carol A Macdonald Ph.D (Edin) > >>>>>>>>>>>> Cultural Historical Activity Theory > >>>>>>>>>>>> Honorary Research Fellow: Department of Linguistics, Unisa > >>>>>>>>>>>> alternative email address: tmacdoca@unisa.ac.za > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >>> -- > >>> Beth Ferholt > >>> Assistant Professor > >>> Department of Early Childhood and Art Education > >>> Brooklyn College, City University of New York > >>> 2900 Bedford Avenue > >>> Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 > >>> > >>> Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu > >>> Phone: (718) 951-5205 > >>> Fax: (718) 951-4816 > >>> > >>> > >> > > > > > -- > Beth Ferholt > Assistant Professor > Department of Early Childhood and Art Education > Brooklyn College, City University of New York > 2900 Bedford Avenue > Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 > > Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu > Phone: (718) 951-5205 > Fax: (718) 951-4816 > -- Robert Lake Ed.D. Associate Professor Social Foundations of Education Dept. of Curriculum, Foundations, and Reading Georgia Southern University P. O. Box 8144, Statesboro, GA 30460 Secretary/Treasurer-AERA- Paulo Freire Special Interest Group Webpage: https://georgiasouthern.academia.edu/RobertLake*Democracy must be born anew in every generation, and education is its midwife.* John Dewey-*Democracy and Education*,1916, p. 139 From lpscholar2@gmail.com Wed Feb 8 12:53:27 2017 From: lpscholar2@gmail.com (lpscholar2@gmail.com) Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2017 12:53:27 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Gunilla's 1996 paper In-Reply-To: References: <1486484311120.76271@iped.uio.no> <1486485450404.30884@iped.uio.no> <4D6F5A74-ABFD-4FAD-989A-65F0A22AA065@osu.edu> Message-ID: <589b857a.5156620a.5bbf5.bae1@mx.google.com> Beth, This most recent article fleshes out and makes distinct Gunilla?s contribution to re-interpreting Vygotsky and moving away from Leontiev who believes children are modelling themselves on adults. i will quote a paragraph from page 930 of your and Monica?s article that should give pause as we move around and through this topic of playworlds?: Of central importance to Lindqvist?s (1995, p. 50) theory of play is her positioning of herself in opposition to Leontiev, whom she characterizes as believing that adult roles are what children plat at, as believing that children?s ?play faces the future? because children in play are MODELING themselves on adults. She explains that Leontiev thinks of play as REPRODUCTION of roles in an adult world, not as PRODUCTIVE. Here Lindqvist is arguing that children are, often, modeling themselves on adults in play, but that play faces a future that will be created, in part, by those who are now children, and that will be created within some constraints that those who are now adults cannot even imagine. Lindqvist?s contribution to play theory derives in part from her ability to interpret Vygotsky?s work from outside the cultural, historical, and political context in which it was created. I offer this paragraph because when I read the above quote in which the semantic ?()? challenges what in particular children are modelling (i.e. adults) this leaves open the centrality of the modelling process itself as the focus and not being *an adult*. When Gunilla introduces *fear* figuratively AS the person under the bed, a modelling process is presented in a shared world but that modelling is not focusing on being *an adult*. Now the modelling process can be *an adult* or the modelling process can be *fear*. Each are particular instances of this modelling process. The modelling becomes the central focus. If we treat ?adult? as real and ?fear? as pretend and draw a RIGID boundary ?marker? between modelling (an adult) and modelling (fear) as two opposite phenomena, we seem to loose the actual phenomena of modelling and its centrality. When *fear* is actualized as a person and *an adult* is actualized as a person, children can model either within a dramatic ?()?. This phenomena has many sides in the way Merleau Ponty images ?sides? or aspects. For example if we face the forward or side of something we imagine the back ?side? and move to verify this in space. It seems *fear* and *an adult* as somethings offer faces in the cloud that are examples of modelling phenomena. This no longer privileges *an adult* as more central than *fear* as phenomena modelled. Or so it seems? Sent from my Windows 10 phone From: Beth Ferholt Sent: February 8, 2017 8:48 AM To: laure.kloetzer@gmail.com; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Gunilla's 1996 paper Let Monica and I know if there are others you are looking for, Laura, and maybe this is helpful? She wrote several things that should be read more than they are! Or more should be translated... Beth On Tue, Feb 7, 2017 at 1:56 PM, Laure Kloetzer wrote: > Dear Brian, > > Thank you so much for sharing ! Very interesting for me indeed. > > I decided to work on play with my students this semester as it is a > wonderful and engaging entry into a lot of fascinating dimensions of > learning & culture. I also plan to make them work on classical works by > Piaget and Vygotsky, and help them test the hypotheses of these authors on > real observations of play. > > Best, > LK > > > > > > > 2017-02-07 19:05 GMT+01:00 Edmiston, Brian W. : > > > Thanks so much, Alfredo > > > > Laure, you might be interested in this chapter of mine in which I build > on > > Lindqvist?s work > > It's coming out in the new Routledge Handbook of Early Childhood Play > > (I know Beth has a chapter in there too) > > > > Brian Edmiston > > > > > > > > > On 7 Feb 2017, at 11:37 am, Alfredo Jornet Gil > > wrote: > > > > > > I see. Here is the article! I think this time is right. > > > > > > Alfredo > > > ________________________________________ > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > on behalf of Alfredo Jornet Gil > > > Sent: 07 February 2017 17:18 > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity; laure.kloetzer@gmail.com > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Gunilla's 1996 paper > > > > > > Hi Laure, > > > > > > I find this online. not the best copy, but one available. See if you > can > > download it (it's 3MB big, can make it smaller and share if you could not > > download) > > > http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED396824.pdf > > > Hope it helps, > > > Alfredo > > > ________________________________________ > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > on behalf of Laure Kloetzer > > > Sent: 07 February 2017 17:01 > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Gunilla's 1996 paper > > > > > > Dear colleagues, > > > > > > After a desperate search for Gunilla's classical paper in my Swiss > > > libraries, I am asking the community for some help. Would one of you > > have a > > > pdf copy of: > > > > > > Lindqvist, G. (1996). The aesthetics of play. A didactic study of play > > and > > > culture in preschools. *Early Years*, *17*(1), 6-11. > > > > > > Thanks a lot for your help ! > > > Best regards > > > LK > > > > > > > > -- Beth Ferholt Assistant Professor Department of Early Childhood and Art Education Brooklyn College, City University of New York 2900 Bedford Avenue Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu Phone: (718) 951-5205 Fax: (718) 951-4816 From lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org Wed Feb 8 13:58:19 2017 From: lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org (Lois Holzman) Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2017 16:58:19 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Perezhivanie and Organic-and Performance Activism (long post0 In-Reply-To: <58988ab9.437c630a.b7180.686c@mx.google.com> References: <5893695b.c32f630a.3d640.41ee@mx.google.com> <58975ff5.8e3f630a.4fc2a.5fd5@mx.google.com> <9703F9CC-1B3F-45BD-8FB5-5372006B75AF@eastsideinstitute.org> <58988ab9.437c630a.b7180.686c@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <2525B2AE-5FEE-4294-A81B-044F439F6CA8@eastsideinstitute.org> So glad someone watched the videos of Richard Schechner. Thanks for the noticing of multiplicity/relationality/performance. In a different post, Mike referenced the long-standing program I?m involved in as a possible model relevant to the ongoing discussion. The project is multi-faceted and I and others characterize it in many different ways. I don?t know what?s the best characterization for this context but will begin writing and see! The project has been going for about 40 years. We've been calling it a development community lately?its focus is human/community development. It exists to create opportunities for growth and development for people and their communities. To organize environments that involve all kinds of people?young and old, rich, poor and in-between (regardless of political, religious, gender, etc. identities ?in transforming their relationships to themselves, to each other and to the institutional gatekeepers of both local and global culture. To re- initiate hope and imagination through exercising our human capacity to self-organize to meet our needs and our capacity to perform individually and collectively who we are becoming. To support people to become active creators of their relationality, their emotionality, their learning, etc., which entails being active creators of the environments (stages in performance language) by which (in tool-and-result fashion) their/our relationality, emotionality, learning, etc. is created. We also call it a community of and for performance activists?performance/play understood as the dialectic who we are/who we?re becoming, i.e., the ?human condition.? The project and its network of organizations are built by all kinds of people as programs in which people can ?perform their becoming.? [From a talk I gave in October in Bogota at a conference on ?Addressing Violence through Culture? (full talk) http://loisholzman.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/BogotaTalk.pdf The work we do doesn?t fit into any known categories and so it goes by many names?social therapeutics, the psychology of becoming, the development community, performance activism, postmodern Marxism are some of the most recent. Social therapeutics because it is grounded in Fred Newman?s creation of social therapy 40 years ago. Social therapy helps people in emotional distress and pain by a group process of creating new emotions. A psychology of becoming because it takes human beings to be not just who we are but simultaneously who we are becoming. The development community because it engages in the activity of creating development and the activity of creating the community that supports development. Performance activism because its politics is one of reconstruction and transformation through people creating new performances of themselves. Postmodern Marxism because it is inspired by Marx?s revolutionary philosophy and radical humanism of transforming the very circumstances that determine us through the all-round development of everyone?AND by the postmodern questioning of the tenets of modernism including truth, reality and objectivity. As postmodern Marxists, we don?t interpret, predict, commodify, define or deconstruct. Instead, we create new, ever-evolving organizations and programs? in and through which people can exercise their power to create something new, to become historical even as they remain societal, to embrace the individual-group dialectic rather than assume a separate individual and group in opposition to each other, to transform how we do everything, to recreate what culture is and to what it means to be a citizen.] The project/development community began in NYC and over the years some of the organizations and programs have expanded to other US cities and our approach to development, learning and social change has put us in partnerships with hundreds of other people and organizations world wide. The majority, I?d say, work with people educationally (all ages, in and out of school), culturally, therapeutically, organizationally. From the same talk as above: This revolutionary activity of ours is realized, manifest and developed through a network of independent organizations that we have built and expanded over 40 years. Two guiding principles were there at the start and remain to this day. First, to be independently funded and supported, and not take money or be constrained by government, corporate, university, foundation or other traditional funding sources. This involved reaching out to ordinary Americans for financial support and participation, by stopping them on street corners and knocking on the doors of their homes. That activity allowed individuals to become active participants in the activities and organizations we were building together?citizens in the best sense of that word. And because we reached out to all sorts of people on the streets and by knocking at their doors, what has evolved is a new kind of partnership between wealthy and middle class Americans and the poor, a partnership that sidesteps the institutions and assumptions of tradition, ideology and politics as usual. In these times, I think of what we do as a new form of activism. That?s what we?re inviting people to participate in. Not a reactive activism, but a reconstruction-deconstruction of the existing circumstances.. People coming together, with their agreements and disagreements, and creating something ?other? with them. And to do so, people have to perform, to step out of their comfort zones (the phrase the teenagers use), to do whatever it is without knowing how, to play/perform life?relationships, conversations, meaning, etc. Relevant to the current political situation/climate, we have developed some amount of expertise in supporting people to perform new kinds of conversations that might create new possibilities. Conversations in which truth, us vs them, either-or, someone must be to blame, identity and assumptions and judgements that come with them, etc. aren?t overdetermining. Some examples?Operation Conversation: Cops & Kids, which brings cops and inner-city teens together in performance workshops, creating skits and conversation and a new kind of relationship, literally creating culture. Another?talking to hundreds of strangers on the streets about current mental health diagnosis?bringing their voices to the professionals who debate these issues and simultaneously involving ordinary people in a new kind of conversation, helping them see in new ways and experience that someone actually wants to know what they think. Another example?an activist for independent politics door knocking in her building and asking if people wanted to get together and talk about their feelings now that Trump is in office. They then met in a restaurant near their building?they got out of their bubbles and their ideologies. The begin to see other possibilities, even opportunities. It was a simple ask. Another example?one of our graduates from Greece organizing youth in refugee camps and youth from the village to create music and poetry together and performing both inside and outside the camp. Going from country to country in Europe with their stories and inviting people to participate in making the project Europe wide. Inviting different kinds of people to create their relational lives and stories and in so doing deconstructing the stories given to/scripted for them. There?s actually hundreds more examples. There?s a wealth of materials, written and spoken and visual, from and about this ongoing project. There?s books, articles, talks, blog posts, videos of activities. Some are academic/conceptual/theoretical (most but not all of mine) or research oriented. Others are not. Vygotsky, Wittgenstein, Marx, Shotter, Searle, Cole, Gergen, Quine, and some of you here can be found in these works. This is my version of the project on this day, February 8, 2017. Should you be interested in an older version or a future one, or someone else?s version, please email me and I can direct you to an article or two. Better yet, come and see for yourself! The project has helped me, humbled me, given me the gift of awe at people?s capacity for creativity and transformation. The most important thing I think I?ve learned is, ?Talk to people.? All people. Strangers. Those we don?t agree with. Those we?re fearful of. Being/becoming (performing) curious helps us move around our assumptions that we know who people are and the seduction of believing that carrying out sophisticated analyses of what they mean or what motivates and/or moves them brings us (close to) the truth. What happens when people who ordinarily don?t come together are brought together to perform a conversation can be magical. Antagonists, strangers, different cultures, different ages.The second thing is a bit of advice?take an improv class! It?s the most practical tool I know out there for living in these times. Lois Lois Holzman Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy 119 West 23 St, suite 902 New York, NY 10011 Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX Tel. +1.212.941.8906 x324 Fax +1.718.797.3966 lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org Social Media Facebook? | LinkedIn | Twitter Blogs Psychology Today | Psychology of Becoming | Mad in America Websites Lois Holzman | East Side?Institute | Performing the World All Stars Project > On Feb 6, 2017, at 9:39 AM, lpscholar2@gmail.com wrote: > > Lois, > Thank you for the link to you, Richard, and Ken, on stage with the new generation. > The scene where Ken asks you to extend your hand and then he responds within four differing ?()? ? frames ? was thought provoking. His way of understanding how each frame ?changed? who you were as his ?()? and your rejoinder within your ?()?. > So... Relation itself means multiple ?()? within ?()?. > > I recommend watching this video that engages the understanding of performance studies > > Sent from my Windows 10 phone > > From: Lois Holzman > Sent: February 6, 2017 6:23 AM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Perezhivanie and Organic > > I?ll take a stab at summarizing it later this week, Mike. > > Lois Holzman > Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy > 119 West 23 St, suite 902 > New York, NY 10011 > Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX > Tel. +1.212.941.8906 x324 > Fax +1.718.797.3966 > lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org > Social Media > Facebook >| LinkedIn > | Twitter > > Blogs > Psychology Today >| Psychology of Becoming > | Mad in America > > Websites > Lois Holzman > | East Side Institute > | Performing the World > > All Stars Project > > > > > On Feb 5, 2017, at 6:42 PM, mike cole > wrote: > > > > Your own work ought to provide an example of a long-standing program that > > could serve as a model for people to consider, Lois. > > mike > > > > On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 10:52 AM, Lois Holzman < > > lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org > wrote: > > > >> Here are two links to two videos in which Richard Schechner addresses > >> politics and performance studies. He is a pioneer and friend of performance > >> activism. > >> > >> in 2012?https://vimeo.com/54675823 > (begins > >> around 57 minutes) > >> in 2016?http://www.performingtheworld.org . > >> performingtheworld.org/ > click on PTW 2016 Plenary Part 1. It?s a > >> conversation between Schechner, Ken Gergen, me and two inner city young > >> women. The set up is long but interesting. The conversation begins with > >> Schechner at around 20 min. > >> > >> Lois Holzman > >> Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy > >> 119 West 23 St, suite 902 > >> New York, NY 10011 > >> Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX > >> Tel. +1.212.941.8906 x324 > >> Fax +1.718.797.3966 > >> lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org > >> Social Media > >> Facebook >| LinkedIn . > >> %20linkedin.com/pub/lois-holzman > | Twitter > >> LoisHolzman> > >> Blogs > >> Psychology Today . > >> com/blog/conceptual-revolution>| Psychology of Becoming < > >> http://loisholzman.org/ > | Mad in America > >> author/lois/> > >> Websites > >> Lois Holzman > | East Side Institute < > >> http://eastsideinstitute.org/ > | Performing the World . > >> performingtheworld.org/ > > >> All Stars Project > > >> > >> > >> > >>> On Feb 5, 2017, at 1:30 PM, lpscholar2@gmail.com wrote: > >>> > >>> Another scholar of ?performance studies? is Richard Schechner who posits > >> a continuum for ?performance? that spans 5 categories: play, games, sports, > >> theatre, ritual. > >>> Play is ?free? where ritual is ?strictly? programmed or designed, while > >> games, sports and theatre MEDIATE between these extremes as more play-like > >> or more ritual-like. > >>> This continuum is basically an elaboration of how performances are > >> variations on ?ritual? as an encompassing category. > >>> > >>> This allows Schechner to extend the values of ritual into creation of > >> symbolic reality that pervades the analysis of other performance genres: > >> play, games, sports, ritual. > >>> > >>> Shechner explains performance studies in the preface to his book > >> [Performance Studies: An Introduction]: > >>> > >>> Performance studies ? as a practice, a theory, an academic discipline ? > >> is dynamic, UNFINISHABLE. Whatever it is, it wasn?t exactly that before > >> and it won?t be exactly that again. > >>> > >>> One dominant metaphor by which performance studies has been figured is > >> ?the unmapped terrain?. > >>> This metaphor figures uncertainty, ambiguity, navigating the > >> incomprehensible, the ungraspable, the unsaying at the heart of the > >> certain, the graspable, the comprehensible, the saying. > >>> > >>> This unmapped terrain may be ??exhilarating? for those scholars and > >> persons who relish ?not knowing? that is hard to pin down. So too is the > >> study of ?performance? exhilarating and privileges open-ended questions. > >>> > >>> The potential to illuminate, instruct, an inspire, is enhanced not > >> diminished by this ever present ?uncertainty?. Don?t try to fix performance > >> studies down is its central value and if you do the symbolic realm will > >> become a mere idol. > >>> > >>> By insisting that performance studies cannot be fixed or defined, > >> performance studies is situated as a NEGATIVE discipline trafficking in > >> ?denials? and the unsaying of speech. > >>> > >>> This gives a flavour of the way performance studies is posited in > >> apophatic terms of the unmapped terrain in the fashion of Schechner?s > >> explorations of the continuum of ritual, play, games, sports, theatre. > >>> > >>> Beth and Monica exploring playworlds and perezhivanie can be put in > >> dialogue with Schechner. > >>> > >>> I was channelling Claire Chambers above who is deeply engaged with this > >> performance thematic playing out through historical epochs and becoming > >> secularized in modern performance studies. > >>> > >>> > >>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > >>> > >>> From: Edward Wall > >>> Sent: February 4, 2017 4:10 PM > >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Perezhivanie and Organic > >>> > >>> David > >>> > >>> Yes, that was the difference I was noting. Vygotsky in the passages > >> I was reading seems to using ?organic? as denoting something ?natural,' > >> while Stanislavsky seemed to using it s somewhat more holistic fashion. > >>> > >>> Ed > >>> > >>>> On Feb 2, 2017, at 3:01 PM, David Kellogg > > >> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> The Russian word that Vygotsky uses for "organic" is the same as the > >> word > >>>> we use, and I assume that the same thing is true of the word that > >>>> Stanislavsky used. It is "organic" transliterated into Cyrillic, rather > >>>> than translated into Russian. > >>>> > >>>> What really makes this problem new-thread-worthy is that the meaning of > >> the > >>>> word "organic" at the end of the nineteenth century is not the same as > >> the > >>>> word meaning that we use in several important ways. > >>>> > >>>> Take, for example, the crudest possible way: semantic prosody, or the > >> "good > >>>> vibes" of some words (e.g. "organic food") vs. the "bad vibes" of others > >>>> (e.g. "artificial flavor"). The nineteenth century began with a romantic > >>>> movement towards nature and towards holism ("Gestaltism"), against > >> dogmatic > >>>> rationalism and atomism. So "organicism" had a semantic prosody that > >>>> involved not only naturalism (which it still does) but also a form of > >>>> proto-structuralism. Organic structure involved a complex whole with > >> parts > >>>> that are interdependent like organs and not independent like ball > >> bearings. > >>>> > >>>> Today, this semantic prosody falls on deaf ears. If anything, it's the > >>>> other way around: we know all about cells, and we know that they are > >>>> independant and dispensible in large numbers (you slough off millions > >> every > >>>> day). But mechanical parts are precisely engineered to fit each other, > >> and > >>>> for the want of one, the whole machine comes to a grinding halt. > >>>> > >>>> Nevertheless, we can still see this older meaning of organicism in > >>>> Toennies' distinction between Gemeinschaft (community, mechanical > >>>> solidarity) and Gesellschaft (society,organic solidarity) and also in > >> the > >>>> work of Bernsetin (workers have a mechanical solidarity based on > >> likeness > >>>> while middle class people have organic solidarity based on mutual > >>>> instrumentality). > >>>> > >>>> (Of course, there's the same problem. Even working class families have > >> an > >>>> organic solidarity, while it is sometimes hard to believe that white > >> collar > >>>> office workers sitting at computers in cubicles are anything bt > >>>> mechanical....) > >>>> > >>>> David Kellogg > >>>> Macquarie University > >>>> > >>>> On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 4:20 AM, Edward Wall > wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Stanislavisk seems to consider what is termed ?organic? in his taking > >> up > >>>>> of perezhivanie. Vygotsky also uses the term ?organic,? although as > >> near as > >>>>> I can tell, without regard to perezhivanie. However, what seems to be > >> being > >>>>> called ?organic? is very different (or so it seems) in these two > >> cases. Is > >>>>> the Rusiian different? > >>>>> > >>>>> Ed Wall > >>>>> > >>>>>> On Feb 2, 2017, at 11:15 AM, lpscholar2@gmail.com wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Beth and Monica explore the phenomena occurring in playworlds > >> generating > >>>>> perezhivanie. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Playworlds are performance worlds and these worlds may be exploring > >> the > >>>>> relation of ?unity? and ?difference?. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Another term that may have relevance when Beth and Monica refer to > >>>>> negating the negation is the operation of ?apophasis?. > >>>>>> William Frank (On What Cannot Be Said) describes the apophatic : > >>>>>> > >>>>>> *In apophasis, which empties language of all positive content, > >> absolute > >>>>> difference cannot be distinguished from absolute unity, even though the > >>>>> respective discourses of difference and unity nominally stand at the > >>>>> antipodes. BOTH configurations, unity and difference, are exposed as > >>>>> relatively arbitrary and, in the end, equally inadequate schemas for > >>>>> articulating what cannot be said. (Franke) > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Claire Chambers in her book (Performance Studies and Negative > >>>>> Epistemology) comments on the above Franke citation : > >>>>>> > >>>>>> *If unity and difference cannot be distinguished from one another (we > >>>>> cannot KNOW what makes them distinct), then it is impossible to > >> determine > >>>>> what either ?is? ? meaning that knowing and being, epistemology and > >>>>> ontology, are also impossible to distinguish from one another.(Claire > >>>>> Chambers Chapter 1) > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I am not sure how far to go with this theme of : Negating the > >> negation? > >>>>>> I hear this theme in playworlds. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> If this seems relevant, i can post the first chapter of Claire > >> Chambers > >>>>> book. I will just mention that Vygotsky?s Judaic childhood and > >> adolescence > >>>>> would have encountered this apophatic ?tradition?. > >>>>>> Enough for one probe or possible pivot? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Sent from my Windows 10 phone > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> From lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org Wed Feb 8 14:15:23 2017 From: lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org (Lois Holzman) Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2017 17:15:23 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] A bit more on performance activism Message-ID: <41AE18E4-DAA0-4F40-B4F8-743993D35F34@eastsideinstitute.org> Here is a summarizing quote from Schechner's talk at the 2012 Performing the World conference. It also appears in a published chapter in the book, Performance Studies in Motion, edited by Citron, Aronson-Lehavi and Zerbib. (I have a co-authored chapter on performance activism in the same book.) To perform is to explore, to play, to experiment with new relations To perform is to cross borders, not only geographic but emotional, ideological, political and personal To perform is to engage in life-long activity study, to grasp every book as a script, as something to be played with, interpreted, reformed and remade To perform is to become someone else and yourself at the same time, to empathize, react grow and change. Lois Lois Holzman Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy 119 West 23 St, suite 902 New York, NY 10011 Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX Tel. +1.212.941.8906 x324 Fax +1.718.797.3966 lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org Social Media Facebook? | LinkedIn | Twitter Blogs Psychology Today | Psychology of Becoming | Mad in America Websites Lois Holzman | East Side?Institute | Performing the World All Stars Project From R.Parker-Rees@plymouth.ac.uk Wed Feb 8 14:34:05 2017 From: R.Parker-Rees@plymouth.ac.uk (Rod Parker-Rees) Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2017 22:34:05 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: A bit more on performance activism In-Reply-To: <41AE18E4-DAA0-4F40-B4F8-743993D35F34@eastsideinstitute.org> References: <41AE18E4-DAA0-4F40-B4F8-743993D35F34@eastsideinstitute.org> Message-ID: I am fascinated by the apparent contradiction in performance - between the constraints of a form (or score or script) and the possibilities this engenders for nuanced interpretation. In a musical performance, for example, the knowledge shared by performer and audience, when both know the score, allows minute variations in the performance to be interpreted as potentially meaningful. Similarly, when baby and caregiver share in a game of 'peek-a-boo' the baby can experience agency in performing the game - making changes and observing the caregiver's response - the 'znachenie' of the form provides a context for communication of the performer's 'smysl'. Writing this has reminded me of a section in Mihalyi Cszikszentmihalyi's book, 'Flow' in which he writes about prisoners who are able to retain their sanity by deliberately introducing tiny choices into the way they 'perform' actions such as eating, getting onto and off their bed etc. However tight the score, there is always room for performance (and this has always infuriated those who have sought to impose uniformity on others in schools, barracks etc.). All the best, Rod -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Lois Holzman Sent: 08 February 2017 22:15 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] A bit more on performance activism Here is a summarizing quote from Schechner's talk at the 2012 Performing the World conference. It also appears in a published chapter in the book, Performance Studies in Motion, edited by Citron, Aronson-Lehavi and Zerbib. (I have a co-authored chapter on performance activism in the same book.) To perform is to explore, to play, to experiment with new relations To perform is to cross borders, not only geographic but emotional, ideological, political and personal To perform is to engage in life-long activity study, to grasp every book as a script, as something to be played with, interpreted, reformed and remade To perform is to become someone else and yourself at the same time, to empathize, react grow and change. Lois Lois Holzman Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy 119 West 23 St, suite 902 New York, NY 10011 Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX Tel. +1.212.941.8906 x324 Fax +1.718.797.3966 lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org Social Media Facebook | LinkedIn | Twitter Blogs Psychology Today | Psychology of Becoming | Mad in America Websites Lois Holzman | East Side Institute | Performing the World All Stars Project ________________________________ [http://www.plymouth.ac.uk/images/email_footer.gif] This email and any files with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the recipient to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient then copying, distribution or other use of the information contained is strictly prohibited and you should not rely on it. If you have received this email in error please let the sender know immediately and delete it from your system(s). Internet emails are not necessarily secure. While we take every care, Plymouth University accepts no responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan emails and their attachments. Plymouth University does not accept responsibility for any changes made after it was sent. Nothing in this email or its attachments constitutes an order for goods or services unless accompanied by an official order form. From lpscholar2@gmail.com Thu Feb 9 04:11:02 2017 From: lpscholar2@gmail.com (lpscholar2@gmail.com) Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2017 04:11:02 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: A bit more on performance activism In-Reply-To: References: <41AE18E4-DAA0-4F40-B4F8-743993D35F34@eastsideinstitute.org> Message-ID: <589c5c88.d014620a.ad898.b468@mx.google.com> Lois, Rod, So.... To perform is to experiment, to play, to explore, Why? To create new ?relations? (not things). How? Crossing ?borders? and possibly to bridge or dissolve border crossings To entangle new ?relations? Not only geographic ?relations? But emotional ?relations, ideological ?relations?, political ?relations, personal ,relations, aesthetic ?relations?, real ?relations?, fictional ?relations?. To perform is to become someone else and yourself ?at the same time?. My turn is up, but will re-turn to Rod?s paradoxical awareness between ?constraints? (of a form) and the possibilities these constraints leave open for ?interpretation? of the form. Just to mention the intimacy of ?relation? and ?form?. How intimate? Sent from my Windows 10 phone From: Rod Parker-Rees Sent: February 8, 2017 2:36 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: A bit more on performance activism I am fascinated by the apparent contradiction in performance - between the constraints of a form (or score or script) and the possibilities this engenders for nuanced interpretation. In a musical performance, for example, the knowledge shared by performer and audience, when both know the score, allows minute variations in the performance to be interpreted as potentially meaningful. Similarly, when baby and caregiver share in a game of 'peek-a-boo' the baby can experience agency in performing the game - making changes and observing the caregiver's response - the 'znachenie' of the form provides a context for communication of the performer's 'smysl'. Writing this has reminded me of a section in Mihalyi Cszikszentmihalyi's book, 'Flow' in which he writes about prisoners who are able to retain their sanity by deliberately introducing tiny choices into the way they 'perform' actions such as eating, getting onto and off their bed etc. However tight the score, there is always room for performance (and this has always infuriated those who have sought to impose uniformity on others in schools, barracks etc.). All the best, Rod -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Lois Holzman Sent: 08 February 2017 22:15 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] A bit more on performance activism Here is a summarizing quote from Schechner's talk at the 2012 Performing the World conference. It also appears in a published chapter in the book, Performance Studies in Motion, edited by Citron, Aronson-Lehavi and Zerbib. (I have a co-authored chapter on performance activism in the same book.) To perform is to explore, to play, to experiment with new relations To perform is to cross borders, not only geographic but emotional, ideological, political and personal To perform is to engage in life-long activity study, to grasp every book as a script, as something to be played with, interpreted, reformed and remade To perform is to become someone else and yourself at the same time, to empathize, react grow and change. Lois Lois Holzman Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy 119 West 23 St, suite 902 New York, NY 10011 Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX Tel. +1.212.941.8906 x324 Fax +1.718.797.3966 lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org Social Media Facebook | LinkedIn | Twitter Blogs Psychology Today | Psychology of Becoming | Mad in America Websites Lois Holzman | East Side Institute | Performing the World All Stars Project ________________________________ [http://www.plymouth.ac.uk/images/email_footer.gif] This email and any files with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the recipient to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient then copying, distribution or other use of the information contained is strictly prohibited and you should not rely on it. If you have received this email in error please let the sender know immediately and delete it from your system(s). Internet emails are not necessarily secure. While we take every care, Plymouth University accepts no responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan emails and their attachments. Plymouth University does not accept responsibility for any changes made after it was sent. Nothing in this email or its attachments constitutes an order for goods or services unless accompanied by an official order form. From lpscholar2@gmail.com Thu Feb 9 13:40:50 2017 From: lpscholar2@gmail.com (lpscholar2@gmail.com) Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2017 13:40:50 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fate of a Man In-Reply-To: References: <048522a2-cca0-3e56-cae2-f2142b9fbd5a@mira.net> <1484427999407.2877@iped.uio.no> <2270f5e7-7d82-5150-89a3-808a4e20b89b@mira.net> <9B8D2964-0926-4976-91F2-CDD51E50A6F5@gmail.com> Message-ID: <589ce1e1.4613620a.7f22b.4034@mx.google.com> Beth, Robert, and the others forming a ?(we)?. Beth said it is the ?()? within the ?()? that interests her [as being]. Maybe Framing is ALL communication, ALL thought, ALL consciousness .... Bateson?.... but Beth thinks we need to tackle framing head on [face into] when discussing perezhivanie. Now I noticed that Wolff-Michael Roth included in the title of his book the phrase ? mathematics of mathematics - and my mind wondered to conjecture if this is going ?meta? and if ?()? is also going ?meta?. Could Beth?s ?()? as symbolic also have another aspect [or side] that is () = bracket and the doubling ?()? = bracketing the bracket. These moves as examples of going ?meta? which also plays with saying/not saying or revealing/concealing that Ed Wall recently posted when he said: The truth of the proposition, in effect, resides in the possibility of bringing its referents into the light (here is where aletheia takes a part); I.e. uncovering. That is, on the LEVEL of ?apophantic as? things are propositionally either true or false, but on the LEVEL of the ?hermeneutic as? they are neither. However, the ?apophantic as? IS (its being) grounded in interpretation, I.e. the ?hermeneutic as? (its being). For Heidegger (and this is an oversimplification) ?hermeneutic truth? IS in effect (in use) DISclosure. ..... complicated because if one surfaces [metaphor of LEVELS] to the apophantic then, in effect (in use) there is a covering back up (closure).... Also, and this is most important, the consequent would not be an understanding of Trump?s speech, but an understanding (interpreting) of how ?(I)? understand (interpret) Trump?s speech. I am travelling back and forth exploring saying as () generating effects IN USE, and then doubling back and exploring the () generating effects IN USE through ?()? interpretation of the uses. To go hear would have to bring in Umberto Eco who pleads for us to make a distinction between ?use? and ?interpretation? AS aspects of semiosis and semiotic but this is for another turn. Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Beth Ferholt Sent: February 5, 2017 6:38 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fate of a Man Thanks for the calling out to Monica and me, Mike and Andy -- I had to stop checking XMCA for a couple of weeks so I did not see the discussion or your notes to me in the chain, until today. One of the the strengths of XMCA is that it creates a conversation that can include people who can not always? respond that very day, or even week, due to various forms of interruption! Often these "interruptions" are children or political events, which canY help us to understand perezhivanie. As well as spending time at JFK, recently, many of us here in New York have been attending local protests to keep our neighborhoods feeling safe for everyone. I live in a neighborhood in Brooklyn that includes several Muslim communities and several Jewish communities (as well as a few Russian and Polish communities), and at the local protests these past few weeks some people have had photographs of their family members who were killed by the Nazis attached to the back of their "never again" signs. Also we all, Muslim, Jewish, etc. families, have been often bringing our children to the protests. So I have been thinking a lot about children and hope, during the past few weeks. It is within this frame that I saw this film. I think the film was expecting us to see the child as only benefitting from the main character's lying, saying that he was the child's father, and of course the child did benefit, but I think that perezhivanie is about truth, somehow, although I am not sure how. My second thought is that Manchester by the Sea must have been referencing this film, with its return-to-the-space-where-the-house-was scene, and also with the choice to replace the lost self (as father) / family or no. I think it might help this conversation if we all saw both films, actually. Two thoughts on this methods suggestion for our conversation, before I return to the topic itself. 1) It is odd how closely the two films are related, as I did not know that the two films were related when I told Chris to see Manchester by the Sea in relation to thinking about perezhivanie. I told Chris when I saw him in person, and I think that discussions about perezhivanie are often different in person. We learned at LCHC in the 2004/5 playworld projects that these in person discussions about perezhivanie have a pronounced proleptic structure, mirroring the topic of study, such that the conclusion of the discussion appears at the start: It feels like magic is happening. (I think this has something to do with how good teachers see the things in their classroom that are useful or no before they happen or "behind their heads" ... when you are very present you have this "sixth sense," which is really an experience of time moving in two directions at once ... being very present can often require a lot of in person time and being with children speeds up the process.) 2) It is a strength that the XMCA conversations can continue through all of our different schedules. It is a negative that they are not in person, and seeing films together can really help. This is where we went on the perezhivanie facebook page when it was briefly in English and in Russian -- with a film, and it was very helpful. (Of course I am thinking of this while considering the changing role and form of LCHC and Mike's participation in LCHC and XMCA. I am thinking of the mistakes that are communication. A story about this that I thought of recently, which shows this point well, and seems worth retelling BECAUSE when studying perezhivanie the form is often (always??) the study of the content: As a newish graduate student Mike once said "thank you" to me when I made a comment in the afternoon about an AM conversation that day. Mike's "thank you" encouraged me to pay extra attention to this comment/thought of mine, which later became important in our analysis of a difficult-to-decipher playworld event. I was thinking of this event as I walked and talked with a doctoral student of my own -- I seem to have a heavily spacial memory process and my student and I were walking through a doorway -- and I suddenly realized that Mike could have been thanking me for holding the door for him at this time in the past when his feedback was so important to me ... maybe he did not hear my comment, but just thanked me for holding the door ... in fact it now appears to me that this was probably the case!) The interesting thing to me about the above 2 points is the framing. It IS the "()" within the "()" that interests me. Maybe Framing is all communication or all thought or consciousness ... Bateson? ... but I think we need to tackle framing head on when discussing perezhivanie. The two films are very different in regards to framing, I think this is why they are most interesting to think about together, but first I have two citations for thinking about time that I use frequently in my writing on perezhivanie. These seem worth repeating here, as this thinking about time in space/time seems to me to be thinking about framing ... the "()" makes us double back in time as we read -- : (As to Performance, Alfredo copied the Schechner quote above.) Dewey's relation of the notion of object to prolepsis (on XMCA): Mike (2007) used the term ?temporally double sided? to describe this phenomenon of growing back and towards the future and the past simultaneously. What I am (still) thinking about, now, most often: It is the juxtaposition of temporal double sidedness with stages that creates perezhivanie. What Schechner argues is that this juxtaposition provides the rhythm that allows us to raise ourselves up and hover, suspended momentarily in a state of being simultaneously ourselves and not ourselves: our past and future selves (someone else). So my first point is about framing and my second is about children. The Fate Of Man is all about the frames / "()". The stories are nested within eachother, repeating themselves, maybe even sort of like a fractal, or anyhow a spiral? I have some congenital prosopagnosia, getting worse as I age and definitely bad with a film like this. I kept thinking we were back at the ferry as the form of the conversation and context images repeated themselves, as I could not recognize the face of the character who was the audience for our hero's story! Manchester by the Sea, on the other hand, had no frames. We just jumped right in and rode it through. I only saw Manchester once but do others think this is true? relevant? I think that the question of children's position in relation to adult perezhivanie is central in both of these films. The children in both of these films appear to want the main characters to try again at being fathers. This is a critique of films about children -- I can not think of the name of the person who made this critique, but I can find it for anyone if needed -- : We adults often make films not about children but about our own childhoods. We make films about children who are no longer with us. But is this really best for the films, as films are usually best when they are somehow in dialogue with their topic, this is a characteristic of the medium, no? If you do not have some pretense, some playing again, you can not have perezhivanie. But I think that Fate of Man is not about perezhivanie, although in a different way than Manchester by the Sea is not about perezhivanie. In Manchester by the Sea there is no other with whom to perezhivanie because the main character and his former wife still love each other, or at lease he still loves her and she returns enough of the love to keep him loving her, and neither of them can pull the other up because they both hit bottom together and in the same story. In Fate of Man there is is no chance for perezhivanie because the other needs to be involved in some honest way, or there is no dialogue. In Fate of Man the hero seems to me to be playing out his memory in the real world. A child is not an other with whom one can ever perezhivanie. This is not perezhivanie as there is no real world as a player, and this is why our hero's heart will fail him. He did not reach bottom and then start to pull himself up by connecting with another with great bravery. Instead, as he says himself, he just snapped -- he is now living in a dream. As Larry put it, above in this chain: "In other words, navigating through the suffering and existential emptiness is not a hero?s journey." And this point is relevant, again, to our method for studying perezhivanie. I don't think we can manage this one on our own (XMCA), even as a group that allows for conversations over extended time periods. If form and content are related in this process, I'd say that we won't understand this process until we see children as full people. And simultaneously as children. Children have something to tell us about this process that no one else can tell us, and they are not going to tell us this in a way that those of us who are researchers/scholars can listen, without the bridge of the teacher voices. How to include these voices in our research is key. And the answer has something to do with art, as well as with time and space. I am going to send this as it is long enough already, and then catch up with the related chains after I do ... And I won't say more now, but I agree with all the people who thought this was a great pick to start the discussion. Many levels to discuss and I also found many aspects of the film related to perezhivanie in many ways! Beth On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 11:51 PM, Andy Blunden wrote: > How about a documentary movie about the first Trump voter who dies as a > result of repeal of Obama Care? That would be a perezhivanie within a > perezhivanie! > > Andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > http://home.mira.net/~andy > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making > On 21/01/2017 12:03 PM, Helena Worthen wrote: > >> I am late to this discussion, but I have been paying attention. I was >> reluctant to expose myself to the emotional challenges of the film. I knew >> that between the majestic music, the stunning black and white images, the >> beautiful human faces and bodies (and some very ugly ones), and the twists >> of the story, I was going to be deeply moved. However, I have been reading >> two books by Svetlana Alexievich -- Voices from Chernobyl and Secondhand >> Time - which tell equally heartbreaking, horrifying stories of suffering. >> Reading her work inclines me to place the film in the context of the period >> of deStalinization after Kruschev's 1956 speech to the 20th Congress of the >> CPSU, which gave the signal that it was permissible to begin to talk freely >> about Soviet history. It was a period of trying to build a story that could >> explain and honor, if not justify, the extreme suffering of the Soviet >> people. This film seems to me to set out to accomplish that. So does >> Alexievich's book, which is a compilation of interviews done between 1991 >> and 2012, with people who had something to say (good and bad) about the >> Soviet regime and the experience of its dissolution. She got the 2015 Nobel >> Prize for this book. And I sense that Andy, or someone, is anticipating >> that the US is going to have to produce some works of scholarship or art, >> or both, that attempt to explain what is happening now here in the US -- >> for example, this afternoon, under President Trump. >> >> Helena Worthen >> helenaworthen@gmail.com >> Vietnam blog: helenaworthen.wordpress.com >> >> On Jan 19, 2017, at 4:00 PM, Christopher Schuck wrote: >> >> For some reason I couldn't see the subtitles showing up in Fate of a Man >>> the first time, so I started to watch it dubbed in English instead. But >>> the >>> mannered Hollywood accents definitely were not exactly helping to convey >>> the "real Russian soul" Robbins talks about! It felt like I was being >>> asked >>> to imagine Cary Grant inhabiting Andrei's perezhivanie-ing body. So, I >>> started over with the subtitled version. >>> >>> Here are some quick initial reflections: wonderful movie, and in Andrei >>> one >>> of the more memorable characters I have seen. But I also found myself >>> thinking how big a difference there is between watching a film on my >>> 12-inch laptop with headphones (my only option at the moment), and >>> sitting >>> back and immersing yourself in a darkened theater or at least on a >>> widescreen TV without any other distractions, allowing ourselves to "fall >>> into this space" by virtue of our very awareness of the illusion >>> generated >>> by the frame, as Beth and Monica put it. This difference becomes even >>> bigger if the screen you're viewing it on also enables you to quickly >>> check >>> email from time to time during the movie, as many people do these days. >>> If >>> we are to consider the film experience as a model (analogy?) for >>> perezhivanie or even a certain kind of simulation of it, this effect that >>> occurs when we lose ourselves in a film would be undermined by an >>> especially small frame or poor viewing conditions. At what point does >>> "the >>> knowledge that the movement we experience is just an illusion" (p. 2 in >>> their article) undermine the perezhivanie-like quality of film as opposed >>> to forming an integral part of it? And, might the way distraction >>> functions >>> to undermine perezhivanie in the context of film in any way mirror how we >>> "distract" ourselves in the course of living lives from conscious >>> engagement with the perezhivanie we are otherwise undergoing? Is viewing >>> a >>> film on a 12-inch screen while checking email and calling it an >>> "experience" in any way analogous to the self-deceptions and escapes we >>> engage in during the course of either experience-as-struggle or >>> experience-as-contemplation? I did not check email while watching Fate >>> of a >>> Man, by the way. Just in case you're wondering. >>> >>> As for the film itself: I was struck by the incidental way in which the >>> earlier loss of his childhood family is introduced and acknowledged at >>> the >>> very outset, and how this contrasts with the dramatic ongoing >>> perezhivanie >>> that ensues going forward: it is as if this early loss is "taken for >>> granted" as also part of the Russian experience. We are not privy to any >>> perezhivanie he might have presumably undergone before that point; it is >>> simply not "within the frame." At several points, I was reminded of >>> Satyajit's World of Apu (last movie in his trilogy), where there was >>> also a >>> set of early losses and a relationship formed with a "son." Have any of >>> you >>> seen it? I think it would also be a good example of perezhivanie. >>> >>> I would not want to overemphasize the use of literary motifs, since >>> Bondarchuk was presumably not making any references to the concept of >>> perezhivanie as such. But there were several devices that evoked Beth and >>> Monica's passage from To The Lighthouse ("Time stand still here"), and >>> their metaphor of a life (or more specifically, a perezhivanie within a >>> life) spiraling back over itself to bring two disparate moments into >>> juxtaposition in a way such that "your life becomes three-dimensional >>> again" (p. 2). One occurs in the various scenes when Andrei gazes up at >>> the >>> sky in reverie and all we see are clouds, or the scene where he lies in >>> the >>> grass after his first escape and the camera pans back as it becomes very >>> quiet, leaving nothing but him swallowed up in the vastness of nature. >>> There is a certain timeless quality to these scenes, a sense that he is >>> momentarily transcending the linear temporal flow of his life as he >>> either >>> stands outside it and "stands still" in it. It could be a thousand years >>> passing by in those clouds, or just the 17 years of his second phase; it >>> suddenly doesn't matter. Another thing I noticed was the use of the two >>> musical themes: the love song the accordionist plays for him and Irina, >>> and >>> the festive music incongruously piped in at the concentration camp during >>> that amazing scene around Part 1, minute 45 where the prisoners are being >>> marched in and the crematorium is going full blast down the road. At some >>> point (I couldn't relocate it) Andrei has a flashback where he revisits >>> the >>> love song and his memories of Irina; then at minute 20 in Part 2, while >>> processing his family's death after coming home from the war, he finds >>> himself hearing the concentration camp song on the record player and is >>> suddenly transported back to that traumatic experience. Yet he does not >>> smash the record right away; he stares at it for a minute, almost as if >>> he >>> is resituating these two moments in relation to each other. >>> >>> Perhaps I am overanalyzing, but I found both these motifs to speak to >>> Beth >>> and Monica's examples in the way they bring two moments back into contact >>> with each other. >>> >>> Finally, Mike and Andy's discussion in the Misha thread about the >>> watching >>> of a film functioning as perezhivanie for those viewers for whom it >>> reflects and repeats their own experience, raises a question about the >>> difference between extended perezhivanie and the personal re-enactment of >>> one's perezhivanie within a much smaller time scale (the two or three >>> hours >>> spent watching the movie). I hope at some point we could delve more into >>> this issue of time frame and time scale in various forms of perezhivanie. >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 8:39 PM, Andy Blunden wrote: >>> >>> Thank you Marc! It was the third "plane" which was my intention in >>>> providing "Fate of a Man" for discussion. You picked out what were for >>>> me >>>> also the main (but by no means the only) instances of perezhivanija in >>>> this >>>> movie. >>>> >>>> It seems to me that Sokolov (the author) offers one perezhivanie in >>>> particular as the main theme of the movie. At the beginning of the >>>> movie, >>>> the man and boy walk up the path to the camera and at the end of the >>>> movie >>>> they walk off together again. So this is the central theme. As you say, >>>> when Sokolov's family has all been killed, even his talented war-hero >>>> son >>>> who was going to be a famous mathematician, his life has become >>>> meaningless. I really liked your reflections of Sokolov's reflections >>>> too. >>>> He sees the young orphan boy who, he discovers, has no family and >>>> doesn't >>>> even know what town he comes from, but is aimlessly living on pieces of >>>> rubbish. He sees that the two of them are in the same situation. So >>>> after >>>> some time mulling this over a they sit together in the truck, he lies to >>>> the boy and tells him that he is the boy's father, and they embrace. But >>>> the boy questions this and he reasserts his claim and the boy accepts >>>> this. >>>> The man is able to define a new meaning for his life; he has done this >>>> autonomously without the help of a therapist, but he still needs >>>> another, >>>> the boy, to embody that meaning. But he knows it is his own invention. >>>> The >>>> boy on the other hand has to be made to believe it is true; he is not >>>> sufficiently mature to manufacture this meaning himself, but as a child >>>> he >>>> can be guided by an adult. As you say, Marc, it is very significant when >>>> Sokolov tells us how he is now, again, worried about his own death. >>>> What if >>>> I died in my sleep? that would be a shock for my son! >>>> >>>> For me, this reflection causes me to look back on the man's whole >>>> struggle >>>> during the war: in the first phase he does not differentiate between his >>>> life as a father and husband and his life as a Soviet citizen - war is >>>> his >>>> duty and he is confident, as is everyone else, of victory. His bravery >>>> in >>>> driving his truck to the front line under fire reflects the fact that he >>>> has never imagined his own death. Then he finds himself prostrate >>>> before 2 >>>> Nazi soldiers who we assume are going among the wounded shooting anyone >>>> who >>>> has survived. But surprisingly, he is allowed to live, but is to be >>>> used as >>>> a slave. Sokolov has been confronted by his own mortality for the first >>>> time and he chooses life, but accepts slavery (Sartre and Hegel both >>>> thematize this moment in their philosophy). In this second phase of >>>> Sokolov's life he is a survivor. Everything hinges on surviving and >>>> returning to his wife and family. As you point out, Marc, his later >>>> reflections on this are particularly poignant, when he discovers the >>>> futility of this hope. Eventually, the life of forced labour becomes >>>> unbearable. He cries out: "Why are we forced to dig 3 cubic metres when >>>> 1 >>>> cubic meter is enough for a grave!" Sokolov has accepted and embraced >>>> death >>>> after all. (Transition to the third phase.) To his German masters this >>>> is >>>> an unendurable act of defiance. As David points out, there are flaws in >>>> the >>>> scene which follows, but ... he confronts his own death defiantly, >>>> stares >>>> it in the eye, spits on it, and his life again gains meaning as a "brave >>>> Soviet soldier" unafraid of death even in such an impossible moment. Not >>>> only does he survive, but takes the Nazi Colonel prisoner and hands the >>>> war >>>> plans over to the Red Army. Now, when he is offered the chance to >>>> return to >>>> his wife as a war hero he declines and asks to be sent back to the >>>> front. >>>> His life has adopted this new meaning which casts his life as a father >>>> into >>>> the shade. He no longer fears death. But he is persuaded to take time >>>> off >>>> and learns of the death of his family. As Marc relates, the continued >>>> survival of his son, who is now also a war hero, provides continued >>>> meaning >>>> and integrates the two themes in his life. This takes work, as Marc >>>> points >>>> out, and he has the assistance of an older man, in achieving this >>>> redefinition of his life. But tragically, with the death of his son >>>> (and NB >>>> the end of the war, albeit in victory) his life is again without >>>> meaning. >>>> Fourth phase. He has survived, but has no purpose. By becoming a father >>>> again (Fifth phase), he regains the fear of death and meaning in his >>>> life. >>>> It is real work, and we witness this psychological turmoil as he copes >>>> with >>>> the idea that this scruffy orphan boy could be a son to him, and >>>> eventually >>>> he manages it. >>>> >>>> The transition between each phase is a critical period during which >>>> Sokolov's personality is transformed. Note also, that there is a >>>> premonition of this perezhivanie in Sokolov's earlier life: his family >>>> is >>>> wiped out in the Civil War and the famine of 1922, then he meets his >>>> wife-to-be, also raised in an orphanage, and they together create a life >>>> and have 17 happy years before the Nazi invasion intrudes. So from the >>>> beginning of the movie we are introduced to the main theme. >>>> >>>> These are the main moments in the movie, which caused me to select it >>>> for >>>> discussion rather than any other movie. Also, there is no doubt that in >>>> producing this movie in 1958 the Soviet government was engaged with its >>>> people, in a process of collective perezhivanie and by reflecting on the >>>> collective perezhivanie during the period of the war, before and after, >>>> they aim to assist the people in collectively assigning meaning to this >>>> terrible suffering and like the man and his "son" walking again into the >>>> future. As a propaganda movie, of course, it is open to much criticism, >>>> but >>>> that is hardly the point. I appreciate Marc's analysis in terms of the >>>> other concepts he has introduced. I wouldn't mind a recap on these. In >>>> terms of Vasilyuk's concepts, Sokolov's life-world is *simple and >>>> difficult*. The boy's life world is *simple and easy*. >>>> >>>> Can we continue to discuss "Fate of a Man", while I open another movie >>>> for >>>> analysis? I think there are at least 10 subscribers to this list who >>>> have >>>> published in learned journals on the topic of perezhivanie in childhood. >>>> Perhaps one of you would like to reflect on the boy's perezhivanija? >>>> >>>> Andy >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> Andy Blunden >>>> http://home.mira.net/~andy >>>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making >>>> On 18/01/2017 5:14 AM, Marc Clar? wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi, all, >>>>> >>>>> and thank you, Andy, for sharing this amazing film, which I didn't >>>>> know. I >>>>> think it will be very useful to share and discuss our respective views >>>>> on >>>>> perezhivanie. >>>>> >>>>> In my view, the film could be analyzed in terms of perezhivanie in >>>>> three >>>>> different planes. First, we could consider the person who watches the >>>>> film, >>>>> and we could study how the meaning she forms for the film restructures >>>>> her >>>>> relationship with aspects of her real life -such as, for example, her >>>>> own >>>>> death or the death of a beloved one, etc. (perhaps this is a little bit >>>>> like what Beth and Monica, or Veresov and Fleer, do with their study of >>>>> playworlds?). In this plane, which would be perhaps the most >>>>> naturalistic >>>>> one, the film could be studied as an human-made cultural artifact which >>>>> restuctures psychological functions; here, the meaning formed for the >>>>> film >>>>> by who watches it and uses it as mediator in her relation to her real >>>>> life >>>>> would be an m-perezhivanie. >>>>> >>>>> In a second plane, we could proceed as if the film was real life, and >>>>> we >>>>> could consider Sokolov telling his story to the man he meets by the >>>>> river >>>>> (a little bit like Carla telling her story to me). In this plane, >>>>> Sokolov's >>>>> narrative (i.e., what is showed to us as narrated flashback) could be >>>>> considered as a cultural artifact that Sokolov uses to relate to all >>>>> what >>>>> happened to him. At this plane, the meaning of this narrative would be >>>>> the >>>>> m-perezhivanie that, in that moment, mediates the relationship between >>>>> Sokolov and the war events he experienced years ago (but these events >>>>> are >>>>> still very present to him, so although relating to past events, there >>>>> is >>>>> here a Sokolov's activity [towards the past war events] which is in >>>>> present >>>>> -this echoes Christopher when, within our conversations, said: ?Part of >>>>> this might also be a question of what it means to describe and >>>>> represent >>>>> one's own perezhivanie figuratively/narratively (whether to others, or >>>>> to >>>>> oneself), as opposed to living that perezhivanie. Especially if the >>>>> attempt >>>>> to capture/represent one's own perezhivanie is, perhaps, also central >>>>> to >>>>> the living of it?? >>>>> >>>>> In a third plane, we could proceed as if Sokolov's narration was not a >>>>> retrospective narration, but the on-time sequence of events with >>>>> on-time >>>>> Sokolov's explanation of these events (in the moments in which the >>>>> narrator >>>>> voice is assumed within the flashback). In this plane, there are >>>>> several >>>>> interesting perezhivanie phenomena. Clearly, there is a Sokolov's >>>>> activity >>>>> of experiencing-as-struggle, which initiates when he realizes that all >>>>> his >>>>> family, except one son, had been killed 2 years ago. At this moment, >>>>> his >>>>> life becomes meaningless; the meaning (m-perezhivanie) he uses to >>>>> relate >>>>> to >>>>> all his life (including the past) at this moment is expressed in his >>>>> conversation with his oncle: ?it's got to be that this life of mine is >>>>> nothing but a nightmare!?. In this moment, Sokolov's past in the >>>>> prision >>>>> camp becomes also meaningless: then, his link to life (the >>>>> m-perezhivanie >>>>> that made being alive meaningful to him) was meeting his family; but at >>>>> that time his family was already dead, so when he discovers it, he >>>>> realizes >>>>> that this m-perezhivanie (the idea of meeting his family) was linking >>>>> him >>>>> to death, not to life, so all his efforts to surviving become >>>>> meaningless: >>>>> ?Every night, when I was a prisioner, I talked with them. Now it turns >>>>> out >>>>> that for two years I was talking with the dead??. In this conversation, >>>>> however, his oncle offers him an alternative m-perezhivanie to relate >>>>> to >>>>> his life: he still has a son, so the m-perehivanie of meeting his >>>>> family >>>>> can still turns Sokolov's life meaningful: ?you've got to go on living. >>>>> You >>>>> have to find Anatoly. When the war is over, your son will get married, >>>>> you >>>>> will live with them. You will take up your carpentry again, play with >>>>> your >>>>> grandkids?. It takes some time to Sokolov to enter into this >>>>> m-perezhivanie, but he does it and his life becomes meaningful again: >>>>> ?and >>>>> then, unexpectedly, I've got a gleam of sunlight?. But, then, Anatoly >>>>> also >>>>> dies. How to keep living? Here, Sokolov holds the m-perezhivanie that >>>>> linked him to life until that moment, and therefore, he needs a son; >>>>> pretending being the father of Vanya turns his life meaningful again. >>>>> >>>>> Another interesting thing, still at that level, is how Sokolov's >>>>> relation >>>>> with his own immediate death changes along the different occasions in >>>>> which >>>>> he faces it. I thing here there are examples of >>>>> experiencing-as-contemplation -in my view, this is not >>>>> experiencing-as-struggle because the situation of impossibility (the >>>>> immediate death) is removed existentially (Sokolov's life is given >>>>> back to >>>>> him), so that there is not a permanent situation of impossibility >>>>> which is >>>>> initially meaningless and is turned into meaningful. In each occasion >>>>> in >>>>> which Sokolov is faced with his immediate death, the m-perezhivanie >>>>> that >>>>> mediates this relationship is different. When he is captured, his >>>>> m-perezhivanie is expressed as: ?here's my death coming after me?. >>>>> When he >>>>> is conducted to meet the nazi official, the m-perezhivanie is expressed >>>>> as: >>>>> ?the end of your misery?, ?to my death and my release of this torment, >>>>> I >>>>> will drink?. In the first, the death is running after Sokolov; in the >>>>> second, it is Sokolov happily going to meet death. Later, at the end of >>>>> the >>>>> film, he faces his immediate death again, and the m-perezhivanie is >>>>> expressed as: ?I'm really worried that I might die in my sleep, and >>>>> that >>>>> would frighten my little son?. >>>>> >>>>> Well, just some thoughts after watching this wonderful film. >>>>> >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> >>>>> Marc. >>>>> >>>>> 2017-01-15 0:06 GMT+01:00 Christopher Schuck >>>> >: >>>>> >>>>> Yes, definitely that article! And specifically, when I used "pivoting" >>>>> I >>>>> >>>>>> couldn't help but think of Beth's earlier example about how a child >>>>>> will >>>>>> use a stick as a pivot for a horse. Perhaps a somewhat different >>>>>> application but related, no? >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 4:06 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < >>>>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Chris, all, >>>>>> >>>>>>> your post is totally relevant to Beth's and Monica's article in the >>>>>>> special issue. They write about film and perezhivanie (quoting >>>>>>> Sobchack) >>>>>>> the following: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The reason that film allows us to glimpse the future is that there >>>>>>> is a >>>>>>> connection between filmic time and ?real? time: ?The images of a film >>>>>>> >>>>>>> exist >>>>>> >>>>>> in the world as a temporal flow, within finitude and situation. >>>>>>> Indeed, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> the >>>>>> >>>>>> fascination of the film is that it does not transcend our >>>>>>> >>>>>>> lived-experience >>>>>> >>>>>> of temporality, but rather that it seems to partake of it, to share >>>>>>> it? >>>>>>> (1992, p. 60). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And later >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Specifically, the way that the flow of time becomes >>>>>>> multidirectional is >>>>>>> that ?rehearsals make it necessary to think of the future in such a >>>>>>> way >>>>>>> >>>>>>> as >>>>>> >>>>>> to create a past? (1985, p. 39). As Schechner ex-plains: ?In a very >>>>>>> real >>>>>>> way the future ? the project coming into existence through the >>>>>>> process >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> rehearsal ? determines the past: what will be kept from earlier >>>>>>> >>>>>>> rehearsals >>>>>> >>>>>> or from the ?source ma-terials? (1985, p. 39)." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Alfredo >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>>>> du> >>>>>>> on behalf of Christopher Schuck >>>>>>> Sent: 14 January 2017 21:43 >>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fate of a Man >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But that's both the limitation and strength of art or fictional >>>>>>> narrative >>>>>>> as opposed to real life, isn't it? That art focuses our attention and >>>>>>> highlights certain features in a way that is idealized and >>>>>>> artificially >>>>>>> "designed" to convey something more clearly and purely (but less >>>>>>> organically and authentically) than it would be conveyed in the >>>>>>> course >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> living it, or observing someone else living it? One way to get around >>>>>>> >>>>>>> this >>>>>> >>>>>> would be, as David says, to analyze the film in terms of clues as to >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> stages of emergence. But maybe another way to use the film would be >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> >>>>>>> view >>>>>> >>>>>> it not so much as a complete, self-sufficient "example" of >>>>>>> perezhivanie, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> as >>>>>> >>>>>> a *tool *for pivoting back and forth between the concept of >>>>>>> perezhivanie >>>>>>> >>>>>>> as >>>>>> >>>>>> imaginatively constructed (through fiction), and the concept of >>>>>>> perezhivanie as imaginatively constructed (through our real living >>>>>>> experience and observation of it). So, it would be the *pivoting* >>>>>>> between >>>>>>> these two manifestations of the concept (designed vs. evolved, as >>>>>>> David >>>>>>> >>>>>>> put >>>>>> >>>>>> it) that reveals new insights about perezhivanie, rather than >>>>>>> >>>>>>> understanding >>>>>> >>>>>> the concept from the film per se. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 3:08 PM, David Kellogg >>>>>> > >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think there's a good reason why Andy started a new thread on this: >>>>>>> he's a >>>>>>> >>>>>>> very tidy thinker (quite unlike yours truly) and he knows that one >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> reason >>>>>>> why xmca threads are seldom cumulative is that they digress to >>>>>>> related >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> problems without solving the immmediate ones. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes, of course, a film allows us to consider an example of >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "perezhivanie", >>>>>>> >>>>>>> but it is a designed perezhivanie rather than an evolved one; it >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> doesn't >>>>>>> explicitly display the various stages of emergence required for a >>>>>>> genetic >>>>>>> analysis, unless we analyze it not as a complete and finished work of >>>>>>> art >>>>>>> but instead for clues as to the stages of its creation (the way that, >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> example, "Quietly Flows the Don" was analyzed to determine its >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> authenticity). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I remember that In the original short story, the schnapps drinking >>>>>>>> scene seemed like pure sleight of hand: an artistically gratuitous >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> example >>>>>>> >>>>>>> of what eventually gave Soviet social realism such a bad name. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> David Kellogg >>>>>>>> Macquarie University >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 10:04 PM, Carol Macdonald < >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> carolmacdon@gmail.com >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Fellow XMCa-ers >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I have watched it through now, thank you Andy, but right now only >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> empirical >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> psychological categories come to mind. I will watch it again and in >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> meanwhile let my fellows with more recent experience of >>>>>>>> /perezhivanie/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> take >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> the discussion further. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It is a kind of timeless story, and modern film techniques would >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> perhaps >>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> more explicit. At the least I would say it has for me a Russian >>>>>>>>> understanding of suffering, perhaps because of their unique >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> experience >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> >>>>>>> it. But having said that, WWII must have generated other similar >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> experiences, apart from the first part about Andrei's family dying >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> famine. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Carol >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 14 January 2017 at 02:15, Andy Blunden >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I watched it in two parts with subtitles: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16w7fg_destiny-of-a-man- >>>>>>>>>> 1959-pt-1_creation >>>>>>>>>> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16wat4_destiny-of-a-man- >>>>>>>>>> 1959-pt-2_creation >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Andy >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>>>>>> Andy Blunden >>>>>>>>>> http://home.mira.net/~andy >>>>>>>>>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> decision-making >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 14/01/2017 2:35 AM, Beth Ferholt wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thank you for taking us to a shared example. I think that >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> having a >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Carol A Macdonald Ph.D (Edin) >>>>>>>>> Cultural Historical Activity Theory >>>>>>>>> Honorary Research Fellow: Department of Linguistics, Unisa >>>>>>>>> alternative email address: tmacdoca@unisa.ac.za >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >> >> > -- Beth Ferholt Assistant Professor Department of Early Childhood and Art Education Brooklyn College, City University of New York 2900 Bedford Avenue Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu Phone: (718) 951-5205 Fax: (718) 951-4816 From ulvi.icil@gmail.com Thu Feb 9 13:43:06 2017 From: ulvi.icil@gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?VWx2aSDEsMOnaWw=?=) Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2017 23:43:06 +0200 Subject: [Xmca-l] A methodological question Message-ID: Dear xmcas, I would like to direct to you a methodological question and to kindly have your idea. I am reading Fidel Castro's speeches. They are full of critiques of neoliberal globalization, capitalism and so on. If I would like to study those speeches in terms of the adult educational aspects, elements they possess (because they are addresses to conscience of the adult world, mostly Cuban people, various sections of Cuban people and society) I wonder what would be the best methodology. For a study something like: Critical discourse in Fidel Castro's speeches. Not CDA, I suppose, because, my aim will not be looking at what lies behind and hidden in these speeches, because they already demystify capitalism etc. which means that as an analyst I have a subjectivity which is on the side of Castro rather than aiming at criticizing him, I intend to make visible what he criticizes in the global neoliberal world. Discourse analysis? Thinking that I intend to include into the study all the emotional, spiritual elements in those speeches, with many evaluations, qualifications like "teaching, medicine nobel professions" etc. Should I study something on the line like "critical discourse (embedded) in Fidel Castro's speeches"? If yes, how? And if not, what may be the best possible methodological alternative? It is so interesting that while I studied the valuable works of Norman Fairclough on CDA, on the critique of globalisation etc, which, for the focus of study, they have, various aspects of capitalist, transnational company discourse etc, I found that same critique not as an analysis, but, itself, in Fidel Castro's public speeches, criticizing neoliberal globalisation etc, so how to study Castro's speech texts?! Thank you very much. Ulvi From boblake@georgiasouthern.edu Thu Feb 9 13:50:33 2017 From: boblake@georgiasouthern.edu (Robert Lake) Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2017 16:50:33 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fate of a Man In-Reply-To: <589ce1e1.4613620a.7f22b.4034@mx.google.com> References: <048522a2-cca0-3e56-cae2-f2142b9fbd5a@mira.net> <1484427999407.2877@iped.uio.no> <2270f5e7-7d82-5150-89a3-808a4e20b89b@mira.net> <9B8D2964-0926-4976-91F2-CDD51E50A6F5@gmail.com> <589ce1e1.4613620a.7f22b.4034@mx.google.com> Message-ID: For meta question I defer to Professor Roth himself. (Included in this email). Robert On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 4:40 PM, wrote: > Beth, Robert, and the others forming a ?(we)?. > > Beth said it is the ?()? within the ?()? that interests her [as being]. > Maybe Framing is ALL communication, ALL thought, ALL consciousness .... > Bateson?.... but Beth thinks we need to tackle framing head on [face into] > when discussing perezhivanie. > > Now I noticed that Wolff-Michael Roth included in the title of his book > the phrase ? mathematics of mathematics - and my mind wondered to > conjecture if this is going ?meta? and if ?()? is also going ?meta?. > > Could Beth?s ?()? as symbolic also have another aspect [or side] that is > () = bracket and the doubling ?()? = bracketing the bracket. These moves > as examples of going ?meta? which also plays with saying/not saying or > revealing/concealing that Ed Wall recently posted when he said: > The truth of the proposition, in effect, resides in the possibility of > bringing its referents into the light (here is where aletheia takes a > part); I.e. uncovering. That is, on the LEVEL of ?apophantic as? things are > propositionally either true or false, but on the LEVEL of the ?hermeneutic > as? they are neither. > > However, the ?apophantic as? IS (its being) grounded in interpretation, > I.e. the ?hermeneutic as? (its being). For Heidegger (and this is an > oversimplification) ?hermeneutic truth? IS in effect (in use) DISclosure. > ..... complicated because if one surfaces [metaphor of LEVELS] to the > apophantic then, in effect (in use) there is a covering back up > (closure).... Also, and this is most important, the consequent would not be > an understanding of Trump?s speech, but an understanding (interpreting) of > how ?(I)? understand (interpret) Trump?s speech. > > I am travelling back and forth exploring saying as () generating effects > IN USE, and then doubling back and exploring the () generating effects IN > USE through ?()? interpretation of the uses. To go hear would have to > bring in Umberto Eco who pleads for us to make a distinction between ?use? > and ?interpretation? AS aspects of semiosis and semiotic but this is for > another turn. > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > From: Beth Ferholt > Sent: February 5, 2017 6:38 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fate of a Man > > Thanks for the calling out to Monica and me, Mike and Andy -- I had to stop > checking XMCA for a couple of weeks so I did not see the discussion or your > notes to me in the chain, until today. One of the the strengths of XMCA is > that it creates a conversation that can include people who can not always? > respond that very day, or even week, due to various forms of interruption! > Often these "interruptions" are children or political events, which canY > help us to understand perezhivanie. > > As well as spending time at JFK, recently, many of us here in New York have > been attending local protests to keep our neighborhoods feeling safe for > everyone. I live in a neighborhood in Brooklyn that includes several > Muslim communities and several Jewish communities (as well as a few Russian > and Polish communities), and at the local protests these past few weeks > some people have had photographs of their family members who were killed by > the Nazis attached to the back of their "never again" signs. Also we all, > Muslim, Jewish, etc. families, have been often bringing our children to > the protests. > > So I have been thinking a lot about children and hope, during the past few > weeks. It is within this frame that I saw this film. I think the film was > expecting us to see the child as only benefitting from the main character's > lying, saying that he was the child's father, and of course the child did > benefit, but I think that perezhivanie is about truth, somehow, although I > am not sure how. > > My second thought is that Manchester by the Sea must have been referencing > this film, with its return-to-the-space-where-the-house-was scene, and > also > with the choice to replace the lost self (as father) / family or no. I > think it might help this conversation if we all saw both films, actually. > Two thoughts on this methods suggestion for our conversation, before I > return to the topic itself. > > 1) It is odd how closely the two films are related, as I did not know that > the two films were related when I told Chris to see Manchester by the Sea > in relation to thinking about perezhivanie. I told Chris when I saw him in > person, and I think that discussions about perezhivanie are often different > in person. We learned at LCHC in the 2004/5 playworld projects that these > in person discussions about perezhivanie have a pronounced proleptic > structure, mirroring the topic of study, such that the conclusion of the > discussion appears at the start: It feels like magic is happening. (I > think this has something to do with how good teachers see the things in > their classroom that are useful or no before they happen or "behind their > heads" ... when you are very present you have this "sixth sense," which is > really an experience of time moving in two directions at once ... being > very present can often require a lot of in person time and being with > children speeds up the process.) > > 2) It is a strength that the XMCA conversations can continue through all of > our different schedules. It is a negative that they are not in person, and > seeing films together can really help. This is where we went on the > perezhivanie facebook page when it was briefly in English and in Russian -- > with a film, and it was very helpful. (Of course I am thinking of this > while considering the changing role and form of LCHC and Mike's > participation in LCHC and XMCA. I am thinking of the mistakes that are > communication. A story about this that I thought of recently, which shows > this point well, and seems worth retelling BECAUSE when studying > perezhivanie the form is often (always??) the study of the content: As a > newish graduate student Mike once said "thank you" to me when I made a > comment in the afternoon about an AM conversation that day. Mike's "thank > you" encouraged me to pay extra attention to this comment/thought of mine, > which later became important in our analysis of a difficult-to-decipher > playworld event. I was thinking of this event as I walked and talked with > a doctoral student of my own -- I seem to have a heavily spacial memory > process and my student and I were walking through a doorway -- and I > suddenly realized that Mike could have been thanking me for holding the > door for him at this time in the past when his feedback was so important to > me ... maybe he did not hear my comment, but just thanked me for holding > the door ... in fact it now appears to me that this was probably the case!) > > The interesting thing to me about the above 2 points is the framing. It IS > the "()" within the "()" that interests me. Maybe Framing is all > communication or all thought or consciousness ... Bateson? ... but I think > we need to tackle framing head on when discussing perezhivanie. The two > films are very different in regards to framing, I think this is why they > are most interesting to think about together, but first I have two > citations for thinking about time that I use frequently in my writing on > perezhivanie. > > These seem worth repeating here, as this thinking about time in space/time > seems to me to be thinking about framing ... the "()" makes us double back > in time as we read -- : > > (As to Performance, Alfredo copied the Schechner quote above.) > > Dewey's relation of the notion of object to prolepsis (on XMCA): > Mike (2007) used the term ?temporally double sided? to describe this > phenomenon of growing back and towards the future and the past > simultaneously. > > What I am (still) thinking about, now, most often: > It is the juxtaposition of temporal double sidedness with stages that > creates perezhivanie. What Schechner argues is that this juxtaposition > provides the rhythm that allows us to raise ourselves up and hover, > suspended momentarily in a state of being simultaneously ourselves and not > ourselves: our past and future selves (someone else). > > So my first point is about framing and my second is about children. The > Fate Of Man is all about the frames / "()". The stories are nested within > eachother, repeating themselves, maybe even sort of like a fractal, or > anyhow a spiral? I have some congenital prosopagnosia, getting worse as I > age and definitely bad with a film like this. I kept thinking we were back > at the ferry as the form of the conversation and context images repeated > themselves, as I could not recognize the face of the character who was the > audience for our hero's story! Manchester by the Sea, on the other hand, > had no frames. We just jumped right in and rode it through. I only saw > Manchester once but do others think this is true? relevant? > > I think that the question of children's position in relation to adult > perezhivanie is central in both of these films. The children in both of > these films appear to want the main characters to try again at being > fathers. This is a critique of films about children -- I can not think of > the name of the person who made this critique, but I can find it for anyone > if needed -- : We adults often make films not about children but about our > own childhoods. We make films about children who are no longer with us. > But is this really best for the films, as films are usually best when they > are somehow in dialogue with their topic, this is a characteristic of the > medium, no? > > If you do not have some pretense, some playing again, you can not have > perezhivanie. But I think that Fate of Man is not about perezhivanie, > although in a different way than Manchester by the Sea is not about > perezhivanie. In Manchester by the Sea there is no other with whom to > perezhivanie because the main character and his former wife still love each > other, or at lease he still loves her and she returns enough of the love to > keep him loving her, and neither of them can pull the other up because they > both hit bottom together and in the same story. In Fate of Man there is is > no chance for perezhivanie because the other needs to be involved in some > honest way, or there is no dialogue. > > In Fate of Man the hero seems to me to be playing out his memory in the > real world. A child is not an other with whom one can ever perezhivanie. > This is not perezhivanie as there is no real world as a player, and this is > why our hero's heart will fail him. He did not reach bottom and then start > to pull himself up by connecting with another with great bravery. Instead, > as he says himself, he just snapped -- he is now living in a dream. > > As Larry put it, above in this chain: "In other words, navigating through > the suffering and existential emptiness is not a hero?s journey." And this > point is relevant, again, to our method for studying perezhivanie. I don't > think we can manage this one on our own (XMCA), even as a group that allows > for conversations over extended time periods. > > If form and content are related in this process, I'd say that we won't > understand this process until we see children as full people. And > simultaneously as children. Children have something to tell us about this > process that no one else can tell us, and they are not going to tell us > this in a way that those of us who are researchers/scholars can listen, > without the bridge of the teacher voices. How to include these voices in > our research is key. And the answer has something to do with art, as well > as with time and space. > > I am going to send this as it is long enough already, and then catch up > with the related chains after I do ... And I won't say more now, but I > agree with all the people who thought this was a great pick to start the > discussion. Many levels to discuss and I also found many aspects of the > film related to perezhivanie in many ways! Beth > > On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 11:51 PM, Andy Blunden wrote: > > > How about a documentary movie about the first Trump voter who dies as a > > result of repeal of Obama Care? That would be a perezhivanie within a > > perezhivanie! > > > > Andy > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Andy Blunden > > http://home.mira.net/~andy > > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making > > On 21/01/2017 12:03 PM, Helena Worthen wrote: > > > >> I am late to this discussion, but I have been paying attention. I was > >> reluctant to expose myself to the emotional challenges of the film. I > knew > >> that between the majestic music, the stunning black and white images, > the > >> beautiful human faces and bodies (and some very ugly ones), and the > twists > >> of the story, I was going to be deeply moved. However, I have been > reading > >> two books by Svetlana Alexievich -- Voices from Chernobyl and Secondhand > >> Time - which tell equally heartbreaking, horrifying stories of > suffering. > >> Reading her work inclines me to place the film in the context of the > period > >> of deStalinization after Kruschev's 1956 speech to the 20th Congress of > the > >> CPSU, which gave the signal that it was permissible to begin to talk > freely > >> about Soviet history. It was a period of trying to build a story that > could > >> explain and honor, if not justify, the extreme suffering of the Soviet > >> people. This film seems to me to set out to accomplish that. So does > >> Alexievich's book, which is a compilation of interviews done between > 1991 > >> and 2012, with people who had something to say (good and bad) about the > >> Soviet regime and the experience of its dissolution. She got the 2015 > Nobel > >> Prize for this book. And I sense that Andy, or someone, is anticipating > >> that the US is going to have to produce some works of scholarship or > art, > >> or both, that attempt to explain what is happening now here in the US -- > >> for example, this afternoon, under President Trump. > >> > >> Helena Worthen > >> helenaworthen@gmail.com > >> Vietnam blog: helenaworthen.wordpress.com > >> > >> On Jan 19, 2017, at 4:00 PM, Christopher Schuck wrote: > >> > >> For some reason I couldn't see the subtitles showing up in Fate of a Man > >>> the first time, so I started to watch it dubbed in English instead. But > >>> the > >>> mannered Hollywood accents definitely were not exactly helping to > convey > >>> the "real Russian soul" Robbins talks about! It felt like I was being > >>> asked > >>> to imagine Cary Grant inhabiting Andrei's perezhivanie-ing body. So, I > >>> started over with the subtitled version. > >>> > >>> Here are some quick initial reflections: wonderful movie, and in Andrei > >>> one > >>> of the more memorable characters I have seen. But I also found myself > >>> thinking how big a difference there is between watching a film on my > >>> 12-inch laptop with headphones (my only option at the moment), and > >>> sitting > >>> back and immersing yourself in a darkened theater or at least on a > >>> widescreen TV without any other distractions, allowing ourselves to > "fall > >>> into this space" by virtue of our very awareness of the illusion > >>> generated > >>> by the frame, as Beth and Monica put it. This difference becomes even > >>> bigger if the screen you're viewing it on also enables you to quickly > >>> check > >>> email from time to time during the movie, as many people do these days. > >>> If > >>> we are to consider the film experience as a model (analogy?) for > >>> perezhivanie or even a certain kind of simulation of it, this effect > that > >>> occurs when we lose ourselves in a film would be undermined by an > >>> especially small frame or poor viewing conditions. At what point does > >>> "the > >>> knowledge that the movement we experience is just an illusion" (p. 2 in > >>> their article) undermine the perezhivanie-like quality of film as > opposed > >>> to forming an integral part of it? And, might the way distraction > >>> functions > >>> to undermine perezhivanie in the context of film in any way mirror how > we > >>> "distract" ourselves in the course of living lives from conscious > >>> engagement with the perezhivanie we are otherwise undergoing? Is > viewing > >>> a > >>> film on a 12-inch screen while checking email and calling it an > >>> "experience" in any way analogous to the self-deceptions and escapes we > >>> engage in during the course of either experience-as-struggle or > >>> experience-as-contemplation? I did not check email while watching Fate > >>> of a > >>> Man, by the way. Just in case you're wondering. > >>> > >>> As for the film itself: I was struck by the incidental way in which the > >>> earlier loss of his childhood family is introduced and acknowledged at > >>> the > >>> very outset, and how this contrasts with the dramatic ongoing > >>> perezhivanie > >>> that ensues going forward: it is as if this early loss is "taken for > >>> granted" as also part of the Russian experience. We are not privy to > any > >>> perezhivanie he might have presumably undergone before that point; it > is > >>> simply not "within the frame." At several points, I was reminded of > >>> Satyajit's World of Apu (last movie in his trilogy), where there was > >>> also a > >>> set of early losses and a relationship formed with a "son." Have any of > >>> you > >>> seen it? I think it would also be a good example of perezhivanie. > >>> > >>> I would not want to overemphasize the use of literary motifs, since > >>> Bondarchuk was presumably not making any references to the concept of > >>> perezhivanie as such. But there were several devices that evoked Beth > and > >>> Monica's passage from To The Lighthouse ("Time stand still here"), and > >>> their metaphor of a life (or more specifically, a perezhivanie within a > >>> life) spiraling back over itself to bring two disparate moments into > >>> juxtaposition in a way such that "your life becomes three-dimensional > >>> again" (p. 2). One occurs in the various scenes when Andrei gazes up at > >>> the > >>> sky in reverie and all we see are clouds, or the scene where he lies in > >>> the > >>> grass after his first escape and the camera pans back as it becomes > very > >>> quiet, leaving nothing but him swallowed up in the vastness of nature. > >>> There is a certain timeless quality to these scenes, a sense that he is > >>> momentarily transcending the linear temporal flow of his life as he > >>> either > >>> stands outside it and "stands still" in it. It could be a thousand > years > >>> passing by in those clouds, or just the 17 years of his second phase; > it > >>> suddenly doesn't matter. Another thing I noticed was the use of the two > >>> musical themes: the love song the accordionist plays for him and Irina, > >>> and > >>> the festive music incongruously piped in at the concentration camp > during > >>> that amazing scene around Part 1, minute 45 where the prisoners are > being > >>> marched in and the crematorium is going full blast down the road. At > some > >>> point (I couldn't relocate it) Andrei has a flashback where he revisits > >>> the > >>> love song and his memories of Irina; then at minute 20 in Part 2, while > >>> processing his family's death after coming home from the war, he finds > >>> himself hearing the concentration camp song on the record player and is > >>> suddenly transported back to that traumatic experience. Yet he does not > >>> smash the record right away; he stares at it for a minute, almost as if > >>> he > >>> is resituating these two moments in relation to each other. > >>> > >>> Perhaps I am overanalyzing, but I found both these motifs to speak to > >>> Beth > >>> and Monica's examples in the way they bring two moments back into > contact > >>> with each other. > >>> > >>> Finally, Mike and Andy's discussion in the Misha thread about the > >>> watching > >>> of a film functioning as perezhivanie for those viewers for whom it > >>> reflects and repeats their own experience, raises a question about the > >>> difference between extended perezhivanie and the personal re-enactment > of > >>> one's perezhivanie within a much smaller time scale (the two or three > >>> hours > >>> spent watching the movie). I hope at some point we could delve more > into > >>> this issue of time frame and time scale in various forms of > perezhivanie. > >>> > >>> Chris > >>> > >>> > >>> On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 8:39 PM, Andy Blunden > wrote: > >>> > >>> Thank you Marc! It was the third "plane" which was my intention in > >>>> providing "Fate of a Man" for discussion. You picked out what were for > >>>> me > >>>> also the main (but by no means the only) instances of perezhivanija in > >>>> this > >>>> movie. > >>>> > >>>> It seems to me that Sokolov (the author) offers one perezhivanie in > >>>> particular as the main theme of the movie. At the beginning of the > >>>> movie, > >>>> the man and boy walk up the path to the camera and at the end of the > >>>> movie > >>>> they walk off together again. So this is the central theme. As you > say, > >>>> when Sokolov's family has all been killed, even his talented war-hero > >>>> son > >>>> who was going to be a famous mathematician, his life has become > >>>> meaningless. I really liked your reflections of Sokolov's reflections > >>>> too. > >>>> He sees the young orphan boy who, he discovers, has no family and > >>>> doesn't > >>>> even know what town he comes from, but is aimlessly living on pieces > of > >>>> rubbish. He sees that the two of them are in the same situation. So > >>>> after > >>>> some time mulling this over a they sit together in the truck, he lies > to > >>>> the boy and tells him that he is the boy's father, and they embrace. > But > >>>> the boy questions this and he reasserts his claim and the boy accepts > >>>> this. > >>>> The man is able to define a new meaning for his life; he has done this > >>>> autonomously without the help of a therapist, but he still needs > >>>> another, > >>>> the boy, to embody that meaning. But he knows it is his own invention. > >>>> The > >>>> boy on the other hand has to be made to believe it is true; he is not > >>>> sufficiently mature to manufacture this meaning himself, but as a > child > >>>> he > >>>> can be guided by an adult. As you say, Marc, it is very significant > when > >>>> Sokolov tells us how he is now, again, worried about his own death. > >>>> What if > >>>> I died in my sleep? that would be a shock for my son! > >>>> > >>>> For me, this reflection causes me to look back on the man's whole > >>>> struggle > >>>> during the war: in the first phase he does not differentiate between > his > >>>> life as a father and husband and his life as a Soviet citizen - war is > >>>> his > >>>> duty and he is confident, as is everyone else, of victory. His bravery > >>>> in > >>>> driving his truck to the front line under fire reflects the fact that > he > >>>> has never imagined his own death. Then he finds himself prostrate > >>>> before 2 > >>>> Nazi soldiers who we assume are going among the wounded shooting > anyone > >>>> who > >>>> has survived. But surprisingly, he is allowed to live, but is to be > >>>> used as > >>>> a slave. Sokolov has been confronted by his own mortality for the > first > >>>> time and he chooses life, but accepts slavery (Sartre and Hegel both > >>>> thematize this moment in their philosophy). In this second phase of > >>>> Sokolov's life he is a survivor. Everything hinges on surviving and > >>>> returning to his wife and family. As you point out, Marc, his later > >>>> reflections on this are particularly poignant, when he discovers the > >>>> futility of this hope. Eventually, the life of forced labour becomes > >>>> unbearable. He cries out: "Why are we forced to dig 3 cubic metres > when > >>>> 1 > >>>> cubic meter is enough for a grave!" Sokolov has accepted and embraced > >>>> death > >>>> after all. (Transition to the third phase.) To his German masters this > >>>> is > >>>> an unendurable act of defiance. As David points out, there are flaws > in > >>>> the > >>>> scene which follows, but ... he confronts his own death defiantly, > >>>> stares > >>>> it in the eye, spits on it, and his life again gains meaning as a > "brave > >>>> Soviet soldier" unafraid of death even in such an impossible moment. > Not > >>>> only does he survive, but takes the Nazi Colonel prisoner and hands > the > >>>> war > >>>> plans over to the Red Army. Now, when he is offered the chance to > >>>> return to > >>>> his wife as a war hero he declines and asks to be sent back to the > >>>> front. > >>>> His life has adopted this new meaning which casts his life as a father > >>>> into > >>>> the shade. He no longer fears death. But he is persuaded to take time > >>>> off > >>>> and learns of the death of his family. As Marc relates, the continued > >>>> survival of his son, who is now also a war hero, provides continued > >>>> meaning > >>>> and integrates the two themes in his life. This takes work, as Marc > >>>> points > >>>> out, and he has the assistance of an older man, in achieving this > >>>> redefinition of his life. But tragically, with the death of his son > >>>> (and NB > >>>> the end of the war, albeit in victory) his life is again without > >>>> meaning. > >>>> Fourth phase. He has survived, but has no purpose. By becoming a > father > >>>> again (Fifth phase), he regains the fear of death and meaning in his > >>>> life. > >>>> It is real work, and we witness this psychological turmoil as he copes > >>>> with > >>>> the idea that this scruffy orphan boy could be a son to him, and > >>>> eventually > >>>> he manages it. > >>>> > >>>> The transition between each phase is a critical period during which > >>>> Sokolov's personality is transformed. Note also, that there is a > >>>> premonition of this perezhivanie in Sokolov's earlier life: his family > >>>> is > >>>> wiped out in the Civil War and the famine of 1922, then he meets his > >>>> wife-to-be, also raised in an orphanage, and they together create a > life > >>>> and have 17 happy years before the Nazi invasion intrudes. So from the > >>>> beginning of the movie we are introduced to the main theme. > >>>> > >>>> These are the main moments in the movie, which caused me to select it > >>>> for > >>>> discussion rather than any other movie. Also, there is no doubt that > in > >>>> producing this movie in 1958 the Soviet government was engaged with > its > >>>> people, in a process of collective perezhivanie and by reflecting on > the > >>>> collective perezhivanie during the period of the war, before and > after, > >>>> they aim to assist the people in collectively assigning meaning to > this > >>>> terrible suffering and like the man and his "son" walking again into > the > >>>> future. As a propaganda movie, of course, it is open to much > criticism, > >>>> but > >>>> that is hardly the point. I appreciate Marc's analysis in terms of the > >>>> other concepts he has introduced. I wouldn't mind a recap on these. In > >>>> terms of Vasilyuk's concepts, Sokolov's life-world is *simple and > >>>> difficult*. The boy's life world is *simple and easy*. > >>>> > >>>> Can we continue to discuss "Fate of a Man", while I open another movie > >>>> for > >>>> analysis? I think there are at least 10 subscribers to this list who > >>>> have > >>>> published in learned journals on the topic of perezhivanie in > childhood. > >>>> Perhaps one of you would like to reflect on the boy's perezhivanija? > >>>> > >>>> Andy > >>>> > >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ > >>>> Andy Blunden > >>>> http://home.mira.net/~andy > >>>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making > >>>> On 18/01/2017 5:14 AM, Marc Clar? wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Hi, all, > >>>>> > >>>>> and thank you, Andy, for sharing this amazing film, which I didn't > >>>>> know. I > >>>>> think it will be very useful to share and discuss our respective > views > >>>>> on > >>>>> perezhivanie. > >>>>> > >>>>> In my view, the film could be analyzed in terms of perezhivanie in > >>>>> three > >>>>> different planes. First, we could consider the person who watches the > >>>>> film, > >>>>> and we could study how the meaning she forms for the film > restructures > >>>>> her > >>>>> relationship with aspects of her real life -such as, for example, her > >>>>> own > >>>>> death or the death of a beloved one, etc. (perhaps this is a little > bit > >>>>> like what Beth and Monica, or Veresov and Fleer, do with their study > of > >>>>> playworlds?). In this plane, which would be perhaps the most > >>>>> naturalistic > >>>>> one, the film could be studied as an human-made cultural artifact > which > >>>>> restuctures psychological functions; here, the meaning formed for the > >>>>> film > >>>>> by who watches it and uses it as mediator in her relation to her real > >>>>> life > >>>>> would be an m-perezhivanie. > >>>>> > >>>>> In a second plane, we could proceed as if the film was real life, and > >>>>> we > >>>>> could consider Sokolov telling his story to the man he meets by the > >>>>> river > >>>>> (a little bit like Carla telling her story to me). In this plane, > >>>>> Sokolov's > >>>>> narrative (i.e., what is showed to us as narrated flashback) could be > >>>>> considered as a cultural artifact that Sokolov uses to relate to all > >>>>> what > >>>>> happened to him. At this plane, the meaning of this narrative would > be > >>>>> the > >>>>> m-perezhivanie that, in that moment, mediates the relationship > between > >>>>> Sokolov and the war events he experienced years ago (but these events > >>>>> are > >>>>> still very present to him, so although relating to past events, there > >>>>> is > >>>>> here a Sokolov's activity [towards the past war events] which is in > >>>>> present > >>>>> -this echoes Christopher when, within our conversations, said: ?Part > of > >>>>> this might also be a question of what it means to describe and > >>>>> represent > >>>>> one's own perezhivanie figuratively/narratively (whether to others, > or > >>>>> to > >>>>> oneself), as opposed to living that perezhivanie. Especially if the > >>>>> attempt > >>>>> to capture/represent one's own perezhivanie is, perhaps, also central > >>>>> to > >>>>> the living of it?? > >>>>> > >>>>> In a third plane, we could proceed as if Sokolov's narration was not > a > >>>>> retrospective narration, but the on-time sequence of events with > >>>>> on-time > >>>>> Sokolov's explanation of these events (in the moments in which the > >>>>> narrator > >>>>> voice is assumed within the flashback). In this plane, there are > >>>>> several > >>>>> interesting perezhivanie phenomena. Clearly, there is a Sokolov's > >>>>> activity > >>>>> of experiencing-as-struggle, which initiates when he realizes that > all > >>>>> his > >>>>> family, except one son, had been killed 2 years ago. At this moment, > >>>>> his > >>>>> life becomes meaningless; the meaning (m-perezhivanie) he uses to > >>>>> relate > >>>>> to > >>>>> all his life (including the past) at this moment is expressed in his > >>>>> conversation with his oncle: ?it's got to be that this life of mine > is > >>>>> nothing but a nightmare!?. In this moment, Sokolov's past in the > >>>>> prision > >>>>> camp becomes also meaningless: then, his link to life (the > >>>>> m-perezhivanie > >>>>> that made being alive meaningful to him) was meeting his family; but > at > >>>>> that time his family was already dead, so when he discovers it, he > >>>>> realizes > >>>>> that this m-perezhivanie (the idea of meeting his family) was linking > >>>>> him > >>>>> to death, not to life, so all his efforts to surviving become > >>>>> meaningless: > >>>>> ?Every night, when I was a prisioner, I talked with them. Now it > turns > >>>>> out > >>>>> that for two years I was talking with the dead??. In this > conversation, > >>>>> however, his oncle offers him an alternative m-perezhivanie to relate > >>>>> to > >>>>> his life: he still has a son, so the m-perehivanie of meeting his > >>>>> family > >>>>> can still turns Sokolov's life meaningful: ?you've got to go on > living. > >>>>> You > >>>>> have to find Anatoly. When the war is over, your son will get > married, > >>>>> you > >>>>> will live with them. You will take up your carpentry again, play with > >>>>> your > >>>>> grandkids?. It takes some time to Sokolov to enter into this > >>>>> m-perezhivanie, but he does it and his life becomes meaningful again: > >>>>> ?and > >>>>> then, unexpectedly, I've got a gleam of sunlight?. But, then, Anatoly > >>>>> also > >>>>> dies. How to keep living? Here, Sokolov holds the m-perezhivanie that > >>>>> linked him to life until that moment, and therefore, he needs a son; > >>>>> pretending being the father of Vanya turns his life meaningful again. > >>>>> > >>>>> Another interesting thing, still at that level, is how Sokolov's > >>>>> relation > >>>>> with his own immediate death changes along the different occasions in > >>>>> which > >>>>> he faces it. I thing here there are examples of > >>>>> experiencing-as-contemplation -in my view, this is not > >>>>> experiencing-as-struggle because the situation of impossibility (the > >>>>> immediate death) is removed existentially (Sokolov's life is given > >>>>> back to > >>>>> him), so that there is not a permanent situation of impossibility > >>>>> which is > >>>>> initially meaningless and is turned into meaningful. In each occasion > >>>>> in > >>>>> which Sokolov is faced with his immediate death, the m-perezhivanie > >>>>> that > >>>>> mediates this relationship is different. When he is captured, his > >>>>> m-perezhivanie is expressed as: ?here's my death coming after me?. > >>>>> When he > >>>>> is conducted to meet the nazi official, the m-perezhivanie is > expressed > >>>>> as: > >>>>> ?the end of your misery?, ?to my death and my release of this > torment, > >>>>> I > >>>>> will drink?. In the first, the death is running after Sokolov; in the > >>>>> second, it is Sokolov happily going to meet death. Later, at the end > of > >>>>> the > >>>>> film, he faces his immediate death again, and the m-perezhivanie is > >>>>> expressed as: ?I'm really worried that I might die in my sleep, and > >>>>> that > >>>>> would frighten my little son?. > >>>>> > >>>>> Well, just some thoughts after watching this wonderful film. > >>>>> > >>>>> Best regards, > >>>>> > >>>>> Marc. > >>>>> > >>>>> 2017-01-15 0:06 GMT+01:00 Christopher Schuck < > schuckcschuck@gmail.com > >>>>> >: > >>>>> > >>>>> Yes, definitely that article! And specifically, when I used > "pivoting" > >>>>> I > >>>>> > >>>>>> couldn't help but think of Beth's earlier example about how a child > >>>>>> will > >>>>>> use a stick as a pivot for a horse. Perhaps a somewhat different > >>>>>> application but related, no? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 4:06 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > >>>>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no > >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Chris, all, > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> your post is totally relevant to Beth's and Monica's article in the > >>>>>>> special issue. They write about film and perezhivanie (quoting > >>>>>>> Sobchack) > >>>>>>> the following: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> The reason that film allows us to glimpse the future is that there > >>>>>>> is a > >>>>>>> connection between filmic time and ?real? time: ?The images of a > film > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> exist > >>>>>> > >>>>>> in the world as a temporal flow, within finitude and situation. > >>>>>>> Indeed, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> the > >>>>>> > >>>>>> fascination of the film is that it does not transcend our > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> lived-experience > >>>>>> > >>>>>> of temporality, but rather that it seems to partake of it, to share > >>>>>>> it? > >>>>>>> (1992, p. 60). > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> And later > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> "Specifically, the way that the flow of time becomes > >>>>>>> multidirectional is > >>>>>>> that ?rehearsals make it necessary to think of the future in such a > >>>>>>> way > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> as > >>>>>> > >>>>>> to create a past? (1985, p. 39). As Schechner ex-plains: ?In a very > >>>>>>> real > >>>>>>> way the future ? the project coming into existence through the > >>>>>>> process > >>>>>>> of > >>>>>>> rehearsal ? determines the past: what will be kept from earlier > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> rehearsals > >>>>>> > >>>>>> or from the ?source ma-terials? (1985, p. 39)." > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Alfredo > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> ________________________________________ > >>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >>>>>>> du> > >>>>>>> on behalf of Christopher Schuck > >>>>>>> Sent: 14 January 2017 21:43 > >>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fate of a Man > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> But that's both the limitation and strength of art or fictional > >>>>>>> narrative > >>>>>>> as opposed to real life, isn't it? That art focuses our attention > and > >>>>>>> highlights certain features in a way that is idealized and > >>>>>>> artificially > >>>>>>> "designed" to convey something more clearly and purely (but less > >>>>>>> organically and authentically) than it would be conveyed in the > >>>>>>> course > >>>>>>> of > >>>>>>> living it, or observing someone else living it? One way to get > around > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> this > >>>>>> > >>>>>> would be, as David says, to analyze the film in terms of clues as to > >>>>>>> the > >>>>>>> stages of emergence. But maybe another way to use the film would be > >>>>>>> to > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> view > >>>>>> > >>>>>> it not so much as a complete, self-sufficient "example" of > >>>>>>> perezhivanie, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> as > >>>>>> > >>>>>> a *tool *for pivoting back and forth between the concept of > >>>>>>> perezhivanie > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> as > >>>>>> > >>>>>> imaginatively constructed (through fiction), and the concept of > >>>>>>> perezhivanie as imaginatively constructed (through our real living > >>>>>>> experience and observation of it). So, it would be the *pivoting* > >>>>>>> between > >>>>>>> these two manifestations of the concept (designed vs. evolved, as > >>>>>>> David > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> put > >>>>>> > >>>>>> it) that reveals new insights about perezhivanie, rather than > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> understanding > >>>>>> > >>>>>> the concept from the film per se. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 3:08 PM, David Kellogg < > dkellogg60@gmail.com > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I think there's a good reason why Andy started a new thread on > this: > >>>>>>> he's a > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> very tidy thinker (quite unlike yours truly) and he knows that one > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> reason > >>>>>>> why xmca threads are seldom cumulative is that they digress to > >>>>>>> related > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> problems without solving the immmediate ones. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Yes, of course, a film allows us to consider an example of > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> "perezhivanie", > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> but it is a designed perezhivanie rather than an evolved one; it > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> doesn't > >>>>>>> explicitly display the various stages of emergence required for a > >>>>>>> genetic > >>>>>>> analysis, unless we analyze it not as a complete and finished work > of > >>>>>>> art > >>>>>>> but instead for clues as to the stages of its creation (the way > that, > >>>>>>> for > >>>>>>> example, "Quietly Flows the Don" was analyzed to determine its > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> authenticity). > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> I remember that In the original short story, the schnapps drinking > >>>>>>>> scene seemed like pure sleight of hand: an artistically gratuitous > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> example > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> of what eventually gave Soviet social realism such a bad name. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> David Kellogg > >>>>>>>> Macquarie University > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 10:04 PM, Carol Macdonald < > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> carolmacdon@gmail.com > >>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Fellow XMCa-ers > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> I have watched it through now, thank you Andy, but right now only > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> empirical > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> psychological categories come to mind. I will watch it again and > in > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>> meanwhile let my fellows with more recent experience of > >>>>>>>> /perezhivanie/ > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> take > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> the discussion further. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> It is a kind of timeless story, and modern film techniques would > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> perhaps > >>>>>>>> be > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> more explicit. At the least I would say it has for me a Russian > >>>>>>>>> understanding of suffering, perhaps because of their unique > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> experience > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> of > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> it. But having said that, WWII must have generated other similar > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> experiences, apart from the first part about Andrei's family > dying > >>>>>>>>> in > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>> famine. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Carol > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> On 14 January 2017 at 02:15, Andy Blunden > >>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> I watched it in two parts with subtitles: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16w7fg_destiny-of-a-man- > >>>>>>>>>> 1959-pt-1_creation > >>>>>>>>>> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16wat4_destiny-of-a-man- > >>>>>>>>>> 1959-pt-2_creation > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Andy > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ > >>>>>>>>>> Andy Blunden > >>>>>>>>>> http://home.mira.net/~andy > >>>>>>>>>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective- > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> decision-making > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On 14/01/2017 2:35 AM, Beth Ferholt wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Thank you for taking us to a shared example. I think that > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> having a > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>> Carol A Macdonald Ph.D (Edin) > >>>>>>>>> Cultural Historical Activity Theory > >>>>>>>>> Honorary Research Fellow: Department of Linguistics, Unisa > >>>>>>>>> alternative email address: tmacdoca@unisa.ac.za > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >> > >> > > > > > -- > Beth Ferholt > Assistant Professor > Department of Early Childhood and Art Education > Brooklyn College, City University of New York > 2900 Bedford Avenue > Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 > > Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu > Phone: (718) 951-5205 > Fax: (718) 951-4816 > > -- Robert Lake Ed.D. Associate Professor Social Foundations of Education Dept. of Curriculum, Foundations, and Reading Georgia Southern University P. O. Box 8144, Statesboro, GA 30460 Secretary/Treasurer-AERA- Paulo Freire Special Interest Group Webpage: https://georgiasouthern.academia.edu/RobertLake*Those who have never despaired have neither lived nor loved. Hope is inseparable from despair. Those of us who truly hope make despair a constant companion whom we outwrestle every day owing to our commitment to justice, love, and hope* ( Cornel West, 2008, p. 185). From lpscholar2@gmail.com Thu Feb 9 13:58:45 2017 From: lpscholar2@gmail.com (lpscholar2@gmail.com) Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2017 13:58:45 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fate of a Man In-Reply-To: <589ce1e1.4613620a.7f22b.4034@mx.google.com> References: <048522a2-cca0-3e56-cae2-f2142b9fbd5a@mira.net> <1484427999407.2877@iped.uio.no> <2270f5e7-7d82-5150-89a3-808a4e20b89b@mira.net> <9B8D2964-0926-4976-91F2-CDD51E50A6F5@gmail.com> <589ce1e1.4613620a.7f22b.4034@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <589ce614.589f620a.c3a17.3a4a@mx.google.com> I was not sure if this response was sent. It may be too vague and will need further uncovering. I am trying to follow the multiple threads that lead back to what has come before as offering some coherence at various LEVELS and through multiple portals or doorways into the ?(I)? and the ?(we)? that are created in use AND doubling back through interpretation. Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: lpscholar2@gmail.com Sent: February 9, 2017 1:40 PM To: Beth Ferholt; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: RE: [Xmca-l] Re: Fate of a Man Beth, Robert, and the others forming a ?(we)?. Beth said it is the ?()? within the ?()? that interests her [as being]. Maybe Framing is ALL communication, ALL thought, ALL consciousness .... Bateson?.... but Beth thinks we need to tackle framing head on [face into] when discussing perezhivanie. Now I noticed that Wolff-Michael Roth included in the title of his book the phrase ? mathematics of mathematics -? and my mind wondered to conjecture if this is going ?meta? and if ?()? is also going ?meta?. Could Beth?s ?()? as symbolic also have another aspect [or side] that is () = bracket and the doubling ??()? = bracketing the bracket.? These moves as examples of going ?meta? which also plays with saying/not saying or revealing/concealing that Ed Wall recently posted when he said: The truth of the proposition, in effect, resides in the possibility of bringing its referents into the light (here is where aletheia takes a part); I.e. uncovering. That is, on the LEVEL of ?apophantic as? things are propositionally either true or false, but on the LEVEL of the ?hermeneutic as? they are neither. However, the ?apophantic as? IS (its being) grounded in interpretation, I.e. the ?hermeneutic as? (its being). For Heidegger (and this is an oversimplification) ?hermeneutic truth? IS in effect (in use) DISclosure. ..... complicated because if one surfaces [metaphor of LEVELS] to the apophantic then, in effect (in use) there is a covering back up (closure).... Also, and this is most important, the consequent would not be an understanding of Trump?s speech, but an understanding (interpreting) of how ??(I)? understand (interpret) Trump?s speech. I am travelling back and forth exploring saying as () generating effects IN USE, and then doubling back and exploring the () generating effects IN USE through ?()? interpretation of the uses.? To go hear would have to bring in Umberto Eco who pleads for us to make a distinction between ?use? and ?interpretation? AS aspects of semiosis and semiotic but this is for another turn. Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Beth Ferholt Sent: February 5, 2017 6:38 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fate of a Man Thanks for the calling out to Monica and me, Mike and Andy -- I had to stop checking XMCA for a couple of weeks so I did not see the discussion or your notes to me in the chain, until today.? One of the the strengths of XMCA is that it creates a conversation that can include people who can not always? respond that very day, or even week, due to various forms of interruption! Often these "interruptions" are children or political events, which canY help us to understand perezhivanie. As well as spending time at JFK, recently, many of us here in New York have been attending local protests to keep our neighborhoods feeling safe for everyone.? I live in a neighborhood in Brooklyn that includes several Muslim communities and several Jewish communities (as well as a few Russian and Polish communities), and at the local protests these past few weeks some people have had photographs of their family members who were killed by the Nazis attached to the back of their "never again" signs. Also we all, Muslim, Jewish, etc. families, have been often bringing? our children to the protests. So I have been thinking a lot about children and hope, during the past few weeks.? It is within this frame that I saw this film.? I think the film was expecting us to see the child as only benefitting from the main character's lying, saying that he was the child's father, and of course the child did benefit, but I think that perezhivanie is about truth, somehow, although I am not sure how. My second thought is that Manchester by the Sea must have been referencing this film, with its return-to-the-space-where-the-house-was scene, and also with the choice to replace the lost self (as father) / family or no.? I think it might help this conversation if we all saw both films, actually. Two thoughts on this methods suggestion for our conversation, before I return to the topic itself. 1) It is odd how closely the two films are related, as I did not know that the two films were related when I told Chris to see Manchester by the Sea in relation to thinking about perezhivanie.? I told Chris when I saw him in person, and I think that discussions about perezhivanie are often different in person.? We learned at LCHC in the 2004/5 playworld projects that these in person discussions about perezhivanie have a pronounced proleptic structure, mirroring the topic of study, such that the conclusion of the discussion appears at the start: It feels like magic is happening.? (I think this has something to do with how good teachers see the things in their classroom that are useful or no before they happen or "behind their heads" ... when you are very present you have this "sixth sense," which is really an experience of time moving in two directions at once ... being very present can often require a lot of in person time and being with children speeds up the process.) 2) It is a strength that the XMCA conversations can continue through all of our different schedules.? It is a negative that they are not in person, and seeing films together can really help.? This is where we went on the perezhivanie facebook page when it was briefly in English and in Russian -- with a film, and it was very helpful.? (Of course I am thinking of this while considering the changing role and form of LCHC and Mike's participation in LCHC and XMCA.? I am thinking of the mistakes that are communication.? A story about this that I thought of recently, which shows this point well, and seems worth retelling BECAUSE when studying perezhivanie the form is often (always??) the study of the content: As a newish graduate student Mike once said "thank you" to me when I made a comment in the afternoon about an AM conversation that day.? Mike's "thank you" encouraged me to pay extra attention to this comment/thought of mine, which later became important in our analysis of a difficult-to-decipher playworld event.? I was thinking of this event as I walked and talked with a doctoral student of my own -- I seem to have a heavily spacial memory process and my student and I were walking through a doorway -- and I suddenly realized that Mike could have been thanking me for holding the door for him at this time in the past when his feedback was so important to me ... maybe he did not hear my comment, but just thanked me for holding the door ... in fact it now appears to me that this was probably the case!) The interesting thing to me about the above 2 points is the framing.? It IS the "()" within the "()" that interests me. Maybe Framing is all communication or all thought or consciousness ... Bateson? ... but I think we need to tackle framing head on when discussing perezhivanie.? The two films are very different in regards to framing, I think this is why they are most interesting to think about together, but first I have two citations for thinking about time that I use frequently in my writing on perezhivanie. These seem worth repeating here, as this thinking about time in space/time seems to me to be thinking about framing ... the "()" makes us double back in time as we read -- : (As to Performance, Alfredo copied the Schechner quote above.) Dewey's relation of the notion of object to prolepsis (on XMCA): Mike (2007) used the term ?temporally double sided? to describe this phenomenon of growing back and towards the future and the past simultaneously. What I am (still) thinking about, now, most often: It is the juxtaposition of temporal double sidedness with stages that creates perezhivanie. What Schechner argues is that this juxtaposition provides the rhythm that allows us to raise ourselves up and hover, suspended momentarily in a state of being simultaneously ourselves and not ourselves: our past and future selves (someone else). So my first point is about framing and my second is about children.? The Fate Of Man is all about the frames / "()". The stories are nested within eachother, repeating themselves, maybe even sort of like a fractal, or anyhow a spiral?? I have some congenital prosopagnosia, getting worse as I age and definitely bad with a film like this.? I kept thinking we were back at the ferry as the form of the conversation and context images repeated themselves, as I could not recognize the face of the character who was the audience for our hero's story!? Manchester by the Sea, on the other hand, had no frames.? We just jumped right in and rode it through. I only saw Manchester once but do others think this is true? relevant? I think that the question of children's position in relation to adult perezhivanie is central in both of these films. The children in both of these films appear to want the main characters to try again at being fathers.? This is a critique of films about children -- I can not think of the name of the person who made this critique, but I can find it for anyone if needed -- : We adults often make films not about children but about our own childhoods.? We make films about children who are no longer with us. But is this really best for the films, as films are usually best when they are somehow in dialogue with their topic, this is a characteristic of the medium, no? If you do not have some pretense, some playing again, you can not have perezhivanie.? But I think that Fate of Man is not about perezhivanie, although in a different way than Manchester by the Sea is not about perezhivanie.? In Manchester by the Sea there is no other with whom to perezhivanie because the main character and his former wife still love each other, or at lease he still loves her and she returns enough of the love to keep him loving her, and neither of them can pull the other up because they both hit bottom together and in the same story.? In Fate of Man there is is no chance for perezhivanie because the other needs to be involved in some honest way, or there is no dialogue. In Fate of Man the hero seems to me to be playing out his memory in the real world.? A child is not an other with whom one can ever perezhivanie. This is not perezhivanie as there is no real world as a player, and this is why our hero's heart will fail him.? He did not reach bottom and then start to pull himself up by connecting with another with great bravery.? Instead, as he says himself, he just snapped -- he is now living in a dream. As Larry put it, above in this chain: "In other words, navigating through the suffering and existential emptiness is not a hero?s journey." And this point is relevant, again, to our method for studying perezhivanie.? I don't think we can manage this one on our own (XMCA), even as a group that allows for conversations over extended time periods. If form and content are related in this process, I'd say that we won't understand this process until we see children as full people.? And simultaneously as children.? Children have something to tell us about this process that no one else can tell us, and they are not going to tell us this in a way that those of us who are researchers/scholars can listen, without the bridge of the teacher voices.? How to include these voices in our research is key.? And the answer has something to do with art, as well as with time and space. I am going to send this as it is long enough already, and then catch up with the related chains after I do ... And I won't say more now, but I agree with all the people who thought this was a great pick to start the discussion.? Many levels to discuss and I also found many aspects of the film related to perezhivanie in many ways! Beth On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 11:51 PM, Andy Blunden wrote: > How about a documentary movie about the first Trump voter who dies as a > result of repeal of Obama Care? That would be a perezhivanie within a > perezhivanie! > > Andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > http://home.mira.net/~andy > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making > On 21/01/2017 12:03 PM, Helena Worthen wrote: > >> I am late to this discussion, but I have been paying attention. I was >> reluctant to expose myself to the emotional challenges of the film. I knew >> that between the majestic music, the stunning black and white images, the >> beautiful human faces and bodies (and some very ugly ones), and the twists >> of the story, I was going to be deeply moved. However, I have been reading >> two books by Svetlana Alexievich -- Voices from Chernobyl and Secondhand >> Time - which tell equally heartbreaking, horrifying stories of suffering. >> Reading her work inclines me to place the film in the context of the period >> of deStalinization after Kruschev's 1956 speech to the 20th Congress of the >> CPSU, which gave the signal that it was permissible to begin to talk freely >> about Soviet history. It was a period of trying to build a story that could >> explain and honor, if not justify, the extreme suffering of the Soviet >> people. This film seems to me to set out to accomplish that. So does >> Alexievich's book, which is a compilation of interviews done between 1991 >> and 2012, with people who had something to say (good and bad) about the >> Soviet regime and the experience of its dissolution. She got the 2015 Nobel >> Prize for this book.? And I sense that Andy, or someone, is anticipating >> that the US is going to have to produce some works of scholarship or art, >> or both, that attempt to explain what is happening now here in the US -- >> for example, this afternoon, under President Trump. >> >> Helena Worthen >> helenaworthen@gmail.com >> Vietnam blog: helenaworthen.wordpress.com >> >> On Jan 19, 2017, at 4:00 PM, Christopher Schuck wrote: >> >> For some reason I couldn't see the subtitles showing up in Fate of a Man >>> the first time, so I started to watch it dubbed in English instead. But >>> the >>> mannered Hollywood accents definitely were not exactly helping to convey >>> the "real Russian soul" Robbins talks about! It felt like I was being >>> asked >>> to imagine Cary Grant inhabiting Andrei's perezhivanie-ing body. So, I >>> started over with the subtitled version. >>> >>> Here are some quick initial reflections: wonderful movie, and in Andrei >>> one >>> of the more memorable characters I have seen. But I also found myself >>> thinking how big a difference there is between watching a film on my >>> 12-inch laptop with headphones (my only option at the moment), and >>> sitting >>> back and immersing yourself in a darkened theater or at least on a >>> widescreen TV without any other distractions, allowing ourselves to "fall >>> into this space" by virtue of our very awareness of the illusion >>> generated >>> by the frame, as Beth and Monica put it. This difference becomes even >>> bigger if the screen you're viewing it on also enables you to quickly >>> check >>> email from time to time during the movie, as many people do these days. >>> If >>> we are to consider the film experience as a model (analogy?) for >>> perezhivanie or even a certain kind of simulation of it, this effect that >>> occurs when we lose ourselves in a film would be undermined by an >>> especially small frame or poor viewing conditions. At what point does >>> "the >>> knowledge that the movement we experience is just an illusion" (p. 2 in >>> their article) undermine the perezhivanie-like quality of film as opposed >>> to forming an integral part of it? And, might the way distraction >>> functions >>> to undermine perezhivanie in the context of film in any way mirror how we >>> "distract" ourselves in the course of living lives from conscious >>> engagement with the perezhivanie we are otherwise undergoing? Is viewing >>> a >>> film on a 12-inch screen while checking email and calling it an >>> "experience" in any way analogous to the self-deceptions and escapes we >>> engage in during the course of either experience-as-struggle or >>> experience-as-contemplation? I did not check email while watching Fate >>> of a >>> Man, by the way. Just in case you're wondering. >>> >>> As for the film itself: I was struck by the incidental way in which the >>> earlier loss of his childhood family is introduced and acknowledged at >>> the >>> very outset, and how this contrasts with the dramatic ongoing >>> perezhivanie >>> that ensues going forward: it is as if this early loss is "taken for >>> granted" as also part of the Russian experience.? We are not privy to any >>> perezhivanie he might have presumably undergone before that point; it is >>> simply not "within the frame." At several points, I was reminded of >>> Satyajit's World of Apu (last movie in his trilogy), where there was >>> also a >>> set of early losses and a relationship formed with a "son." Have any of >>> you >>> seen it? I think it would also be a good example of perezhivanie. >>> >>> I would not want to overemphasize the use of literary motifs, since >>> Bondarchuk was presumably not making any references to the concept of >>> perezhivanie as such. But there were several devices that evoked Beth and >>> Monica's passage from To The Lighthouse ("Time stand still here"), and >>> their metaphor of a life (or more specifically, a perezhivanie within a >>> life) spiraling back over itself to bring two disparate moments into >>> juxtaposition in a way such that "your life becomes three-dimensional >>> again" (p. 2). One occurs in the various scenes when Andrei gazes up at >>> the >>> sky in reverie and all we see are clouds, or the scene where he lies in >>> the >>> grass after his first escape and the camera pans back as it becomes very >>> quiet, leaving nothing but him swallowed up in the vastness of nature. >>> There is a certain timeless quality to these scenes, a sense that he is >>> momentarily transcending the linear temporal flow of his life as he >>> either >>> stands outside it and "stands still" in it. It could be a thousand years >>> passing by in those clouds, or just the 17 years of his second phase; it >>> suddenly doesn't matter. Another thing I noticed was the use of the two >>> musical themes: the love song the accordionist plays for him and Irina, >>> and >>> the festive music incongruously piped in at the concentration camp during >>> that amazing scene around Part 1, minute 45 where the prisoners are being >>> marched in and the crematorium is going full blast down the road. At some >>> point (I couldn't relocate it) Andrei has a flashback where he revisits >>> the >>> love song and his memories of Irina; then at minute 20 in Part 2, while >>> processing his family's death after coming home from the war, he finds >>> himself hearing the concentration camp song on the record player and is >>> suddenly transported back to that traumatic experience. Yet he does not >>> smash the record right away; he stares at it for a minute, almost as if >>> he >>> is resituating these two moments in relation to each other. >>> >>> Perhaps I am overanalyzing, but I found both these motifs to speak to >>> Beth >>> and Monica's examples in the way they bring two moments back into contact >>> with each other. >>> >>> Finally, Mike and Andy's discussion in the Misha thread about the >>> watching >>> of a film functioning as perezhivanie for those viewers for whom it >>> reflects and repeats their own experience, raises a question about the >>> difference between extended perezhivanie and the personal re-enactment of >>> one's perezhivanie within a much smaller time scale (the two or three >>> hours >>> spent watching the movie). I hope at some point we could delve more into >>> this issue of time frame and time scale in various forms of perezhivanie. >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 8:39 PM, Andy Blunden wrote: >>> >>> Thank you Marc! It was the third "plane" which was my intention in >>>> providing "Fate of a Man" for discussion. You picked out what were for >>>> me >>>> also the main (but by no means the only) instances of perezhivanija in >>>> this >>>> movie. >>>> >>>> It seems to me that Sokolov (the author) offers one perezhivanie in >>>> particular as the main theme of the movie. At the beginning of the >>>> movie, >>>> the man and boy walk up the path to the camera and at the end of the >>>> movie >>>> they walk off together again. So this is the central theme. As you say, >>>> when Sokolov's family has all been killed, even his talented war-hero >>>> son >>>> who was going to be a famous mathematician, his life has become >>>> meaningless. I really liked your reflections of Sokolov's reflections >>>> too. >>>> He sees the young orphan boy who, he discovers, has no family and >>>> doesn't >>>> even know what town he comes from, but is aimlessly living on pieces of >>>> rubbish. He sees that the two of them are in the same situation. So >>>> after >>>> some time mulling this over a they sit together in the truck, he lies to >>>> the boy and tells him that he is the boy's father, and they embrace. But >>>> the boy questions this and he reasserts his claim and the boy accepts >>>> this. >>>> The man is able to define a new meaning for his life; he has done this >>>> autonomously without the help of a therapist, but he still needs >>>> another, >>>> the boy, to embody that meaning. But he knows it is his own invention. >>>> The >>>> boy on the other hand has to be made to believe it is true; he is not >>>> sufficiently mature to manufacture this meaning himself, but as a child >>>> he >>>> can be guided by an adult. As you say, Marc, it is very significant when >>>> Sokolov tells us how he is now, again, worried about his own death. >>>> What if >>>> I died in my sleep? that would be a shock for my son! >>>> >>>> For me, this reflection causes me to look back on the man's whole >>>> struggle >>>> during the war: in the first phase he does not differentiate between his >>>> life as a father and husband and his life as a Soviet citizen - war is >>>> his >>>> duty and he is confident, as is everyone else, of victory. His bravery >>>> in >>>> driving his truck to the front line under fire reflects the fact that he >>>> has never imagined his own death. Then he finds himself prostrate >>>> before 2 >>>> Nazi soldiers who we assume are going among the wounded shooting anyone >>>> who >>>> has survived. But surprisingly, he is allowed to live, but is to be >>>> used as >>>> a slave. Sokolov has been confronted by his own mortality for the first >>>> time and he chooses life, but accepts slavery (Sartre and Hegel both >>>> thematize this moment in their philosophy). In this second phase of >>>> Sokolov's life he is a survivor. Everything hinges on surviving and >>>> returning to his wife and family. As you point out, Marc, his later >>>> reflections on this are particularly poignant, when he discovers the >>>> futility of this hope. Eventually, the life of forced labour becomes >>>> unbearable. He cries out: "Why are we forced to dig 3 cubic metres when >>>> 1 >>>> cubic meter is enough for a grave!" Sokolov has accepted and embraced >>>> death >>>> after all. (Transition to the third phase.) To his German masters this >>>> is >>>> an unendurable act of defiance. As David points out, there are flaws in >>>> the >>>> scene which follows, but ... he confronts his own death defiantly, >>>> stares >>>> it in the eye, spits on it, and his life again gains meaning as a "brave >>>> Soviet soldier" unafraid of death even in such an impossible moment. Not >>>> only does he survive, but takes the Nazi Colonel prisoner and hands the >>>> war >>>> plans over to the Red Army. Now, when he is offered the chance to >>>> return to >>>> his wife as a war hero he declines and asks to be sent back to the >>>> front. >>>> His life has adopted this new meaning which casts his life as a father >>>> into >>>> the shade. He no longer fears death. But he is persuaded to take time >>>> off >>>> and learns of the death of his family. As Marc relates, the continued >>>> survival of his son, who is now also a war hero, provides continued >>>> meaning >>>> and integrates the two themes in his life. This takes work, as Marc >>>> points >>>> out, and he has the assistance of an older man, in achieving this >>>> redefinition of his life. But tragically, with the death of his son >>>> (and NB >>>> the end of the war, albeit in victory) his life is again without >>>> meaning. >>>> Fourth phase. He has survived, but has no purpose. By becoming a father >>>> again (Fifth phase), he regains the fear of death and meaning in his >>>> life. >>>> It is real work, and we witness this psychological turmoil as he copes >>>> with >>>> the idea that this scruffy orphan boy could be a son to him, and >>>> eventually >>>> he manages it. >>>> >>>> The transition between each phase is a critical period during which >>>> Sokolov's personality is transformed. Note also, that there is a >>>> premonition of this perezhivanie in Sokolov's earlier life: his family >>>> is >>>> wiped out in the Civil War and the famine of 1922, then he meets his >>>> wife-to-be, also raised in an orphanage, and they together create a life >>>> and have 17 happy years before the Nazi invasion intrudes. So from the >>>> beginning of the movie we are introduced to the main theme. >>>> >>>> These are the main moments in the movie, which caused me to select it >>>> for >>>> discussion rather than any other movie. Also, there is no doubt that in >>>> producing this movie in 1958 the Soviet government was engaged with its >>>> people, in a process of collective perezhivanie and by reflecting on the >>>> collective perezhivanie during the period of the war, before and after, >>>> they aim to assist the people in collectively assigning meaning to this >>>> terrible suffering and like the man and his "son" walking again into the >>>> future. As a propaganda movie, of course, it is open to much criticism, >>>> but >>>> that is hardly the point. I appreciate Marc's analysis in terms of the >>>> other concepts he has introduced. I wouldn't mind a recap on these. In >>>> terms of Vasilyuk's concepts, Sokolov's life-world is *simple and >>>> difficult*. The boy's life world is *simple and easy*. >>>> >>>> Can we continue to discuss "Fate of a Man", while I open another movie >>>> for >>>> analysis? I think there are at least 10 subscribers to this list who >>>> have >>>> published in learned journals on the topic of perezhivanie in childhood. >>>> Perhaps one of you would like to reflect on the boy's perezhivanija? >>>> >>>> Andy >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> Andy Blunden >>>> http://home.mira.net/~andy >>>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making >>>> On 18/01/2017 5:14 AM, Marc Clar? wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi, all, >>>>> >>>>> and thank you, Andy, for sharing this amazing film, which I didn't >>>>> know. I >>>>> think it will be very useful to share and discuss our respective views >>>>> on >>>>> perezhivanie. >>>>> >>>>> In my view, the film could be analyzed in terms of perezhivanie in >>>>> three >>>>> different planes. First, we could consider the person who watches the >>>>> film, >>>>> and we could study how the meaning she forms for the film restructures >>>>> her >>>>> relationship with aspects of her real life -such as, for example, her >>>>> own >>>>> death or the death of a beloved one, etc. (perhaps this is a little bit >>>>> like what Beth and Monica, or Veresov and Fleer, do with their study of >>>>> playworlds?). In this plane, which would be perhaps the most >>>>> naturalistic >>>>> one, the film could be studied as an human-made cultural artifact which >>>>> restuctures psychological functions; here, the meaning formed for the >>>>> film >>>>> by who watches it and uses it as mediator in her relation to her real >>>>> life >>>>> would be an m-perezhivanie. >>>>> >>>>> In a second plane, we could proceed as if the film was real life, and >>>>> we >>>>> could consider Sokolov telling his story to the man he meets by the >>>>> river >>>>> (a little bit like Carla telling her story to me). In this plane, >>>>> Sokolov's >>>>> narrative (i.e., what is showed to us as narrated flashback) could be >>>>> considered as a cultural artifact that Sokolov uses to relate to all >>>>> what >>>>> happened to him. At this plane, the meaning of this narrative would be >>>>> the >>>>> m-perezhivanie that, in that moment, mediates the relationship between >>>>> Sokolov and the war events he experienced years ago (but these events >>>>> are >>>>> still very present to him, so although relating to past events, there >>>>> is >>>>> here a Sokolov's activity [towards the past war events] which is in >>>>> present >>>>> -this echoes Christopher when, within our conversations, said: ?Part of >>>>> this might also be a question of what it means to describe and >>>>> represent >>>>> one's own perezhivanie figuratively/narratively (whether to others, or >>>>> to >>>>> oneself), as opposed to living that perezhivanie. Especially if the >>>>> attempt >>>>> to capture/represent one's own perezhivanie is, perhaps, also central >>>>> to >>>>> the living of it?? >>>>> >>>>> In a third plane, we could proceed as if Sokolov's narration was not a >>>>> retrospective narration, but the on-time sequence of events with >>>>> on-time >>>>> Sokolov's explanation of these events (in the moments in which the >>>>> narrator >>>>> voice is assumed within the flashback). In this plane, there are >>>>> several >>>>> interesting perezhivanie phenomena. Clearly, there is a Sokolov's >>>>> activity >>>>> of experiencing-as-struggle, which initiates when he realizes that all >>>>> his >>>>> family, except one son, had been killed 2 years ago. At this moment, >>>>> his >>>>> life becomes meaningless; the meaning (m-perezhivanie) he uses to >>>>> relate >>>>> to >>>>> all his life (including the past) at this moment is expressed in his >>>>> conversation with his oncle: ?it's got to be that this life of mine is >>>>> nothing but a nightmare!?. In this moment, Sokolov's past in the >>>>> prision >>>>> camp becomes also meaningless: then, his link to life (the >>>>> m-perezhivanie >>>>> that made being alive meaningful to him) was meeting his family; but at >>>>> that time his family was already dead, so when he discovers it, he >>>>> realizes >>>>> that this m-perezhivanie (the idea of meeting his family) was linking >>>>> him >>>>> to death, not to life, so all his efforts to surviving become >>>>> meaningless: >>>>> ?Every night, when I was a prisioner, I talked with them. Now it turns >>>>> out >>>>> that for two years I was talking with the dead??. In this conversation, >>>>> however, his oncle offers him an alternative m-perezhivanie to relate >>>>> to >>>>> his life: he still has a son, so the m-perehivanie of meeting his >>>>> family >>>>> can still turns Sokolov's life meaningful: ?you've got to go on living. >>>>> You >>>>> have to find Anatoly. When the war is over, your son will get married, >>>>> you >>>>> will live with them. You will take up your carpentry again, play with >>>>> your >>>>> grandkids?. It takes some time to Sokolov to enter into this >>>>> m-perezhivanie, but he does it and his life becomes meaningful again: >>>>> ?and >>>>> then, unexpectedly, I've got a gleam of sunlight?. But, then, Anatoly >>>>> also >>>>> dies. How to keep living? Here, Sokolov holds the m-perezhivanie that >>>>> linked him to life until that moment, and therefore, he needs a son; >>>>> pretending being the father of Vanya turns his life meaningful again. >>>>> >>>>> Another interesting thing, still at that level, is how Sokolov's >>>>> relation >>>>> with his own immediate death changes along the different occasions in >>>>> which >>>>> he faces it. I thing here there are examples of >>>>> experiencing-as-contemplation -in my view, this is not >>>>> experiencing-as-struggle because the situation of impossibility (the >>>>> immediate death) is removed existentially (Sokolov's life is given >>>>> back to >>>>> him), so that there is not a permanent situation of impossibility >>>>> which is >>>>> initially meaningless and is turned into meaningful. In each occasion >>>>> in >>>>> which Sokolov is faced with his immediate death, the m-perezhivanie >>>>> that >>>>> mediates this relationship is different. When he is captured, his >>>>> m-perezhivanie is expressed as: ?here's my death coming after me?. >>>>> When he >>>>> is conducted to meet the nazi official, the m-perezhivanie is expressed >>>>> as: >>>>> ?the end of your misery?, ?to my death and my release of this torment, >>>>> I >>>>> will drink?. In the first, the death is running after Sokolov; in the >>>>> second, it is Sokolov happily going to meet death. Later, at the end of >>>>> the >>>>> film, he faces his immediate death again, and the m-perezhivanie is >>>>> expressed as: ?I'm really worried that I might die in my sleep, and >>>>> that >>>>> would frighten my little son?. >>>>> >>>>> Well, just some thoughts after watching this wonderful film. >>>>> >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> >>>>> Marc. >>>>> >>>>> 2017-01-15 0:06 GMT+01:00 Christopher Schuck >>>> >: >>>>> >>>>> Yes, definitely that article! And specifically, when I used "pivoting" >>>>> I >>>>> >>>>>> couldn't help but think of Beth's earlier example about how a child >>>>>> will >>>>>> use a stick as a pivot for a horse. Perhaps a somewhat different >>>>>> application but related, no? >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 4:06 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < >>>>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Chris, all, >>>>>> >>>>>>> your post is totally relevant to Beth's and Monica's article in the >>>>>>> special issue. They write about film and perezhivanie (quoting >>>>>>> Sobchack) >>>>>>> the following: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The reason that film allows us to glimpse the future is that there >>>>>>> is a >>>>>>> connection between filmic time and ?real? time: ?The images of a film >>>>>>> >>>>>>> exist >>>>>> >>>>>> in the world as a temporal flow, within finitude and situation. >>>>>>> Indeed, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> the >>>>>> >>>>>> fascination of the film is that it does not transcend our >>>>>>> >>>>>>> lived-experience >>>>>> >>>>>> of temporality, but rather that it seems to partake of it, to share >>>>>>> it? >>>>>>> (1992, p. 60). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And later >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Specifically, the way that the flow of time becomes >>>>>>> multidirectional is >>>>>>> that ?rehearsals make it necessary to think of the future in such a >>>>>>> way >>>>>>> >>>>>>> as >>>>>> >>>>>> to create a past? (1985, p. 39). As Schechner ex-plains: ?In a very >>>>>>> real >>>>>>> way the future ? the project coming into existence through the >>>>>>> process >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> rehearsal ? determines the past: what will be kept from earlier >>>>>>> >>>>>>> rehearsals >>>>>> >>>>>> or from the ?source ma-terials? (1985, p. 39)." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Alfredo >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>>>> du> >>>>>>> on behalf of Christopher Schuck >>>>>>> Sent: 14 January 2017 21:43 >>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fate of a Man >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But that's both the limitation and strength of art or fictional >>>>>>> narrative >>>>>>> as opposed to real life, isn't it? That art focuses our attention and >>>>>>> highlights certain features in a way that is idealized and >>>>>>> artificially >>>>>>> "designed" to convey something more clearly and purely (but less >>>>>>> organically and authentically) than it would be conveyed in the >>>>>>> course >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> living it, or observing someone else living it? One way to get around >>>>>>> >>>>>>> this >>>>>> >>>>>> would be, as David says, to analyze the film in terms of clues as to >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> stages of emergence. But maybe another way to use the film would be >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> >>>>>>> view >>>>>> >>>>>> it not so much as a complete, self-sufficient "example" of >>>>>>> perezhivanie, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> as >>>>>> >>>>>> a *tool *for pivoting back and forth between the concept of >>>>>>> perezhivanie >>>>>>> >>>>>>> as >>>>>> >>>>>> imaginatively constructed (through fiction), and the concept of >>>>>>> perezhivanie as imaginatively constructed (through our real living >>>>>>> experience and observation of it). So, it would be the *pivoting* >>>>>>> between >>>>>>> these two manifestations of the concept (designed vs. evolved, as >>>>>>> David >>>>>>> >>>>>>> put >>>>>> >>>>>> it) that reveals new insights about perezhivanie, rather than >>>>>>> >>>>>>> understanding >>>>>> >>>>>> the concept from the film per se. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 3:08 PM, David Kellogg >>>>>> > >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think there's a good reason why Andy started a new thread on this: >>>>>>> he's a >>>>>>> >>>>>>> very tidy thinker (quite unlike yours truly) and he knows that one >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> reason >>>>>>> why xmca threads are seldom cumulative is that they digress to >>>>>>> related >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> problems without solving the immmediate ones. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes, of course, a film allows us to consider an example of >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "perezhivanie", >>>>>>> >>>>>>> but it is a designed perezhivanie rather than an evolved one; it >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> doesn't >>>>>>> explicitly display the various stages of emergence required for a >>>>>>> genetic >>>>>>> analysis, unless we analyze it not as a complete and finished work of >>>>>>> art >>>>>>> but instead for clues as to the stages of its creation (the way that, >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> example, "Quietly Flows the Don" was analyzed to determine its >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> authenticity). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I remember that In the original short story, the schnapps drinking >>>>>>>> scene seemed like pure sleight of hand: an artistically gratuitous >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> example >>>>>>> >>>>>>> of what eventually gave Soviet social realism such a bad name. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> David Kellogg >>>>>>>> Macquarie University >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 10:04 PM, Carol Macdonald < >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> carolmacdon@gmail.com >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Fellow XMCa-ers >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I have watched it through now, thank you Andy, but right now only >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> empirical >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> psychological categories come to mind.? I will watch it again and in >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> meanwhile let my fellows with more recent experience of >>>>>>>> /perezhivanie/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> take >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> the discussion further. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It is a kind of timeless story, and modern film techniques would >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> perhaps >>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> more explicit. At the least I would say it has for me a Russian >>>>>>>>> understanding of suffering, perhaps because of their unique >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> experience >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> >>>>>>> it. But having said that, WWII must have generated other similar >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> experiences, apart from the first part about Andrei's family dying >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> famine. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Carol >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 14 January 2017 at 02:15, Andy Blunden >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I watched it in two parts with subtitles: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16w7fg_destiny-of-a-man- >>>>>>>>>> 1959-pt-1_creation >>>>>>>>>> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16wat4_destiny-of-a-man- >>>>>>>>>> 1959-pt-2_creation >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Andy >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>>>>>> Andy Blunden >>>>>>>>>> http://home.mira.net/~andy >>>>>>>>>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> decision-making >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 14/01/2017 2:35 AM, Beth Ferholt wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thank you for taking us to a shared example.? I think that >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> having a >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Carol A Macdonald Ph.D (Edin) >>>>>>>>> Cultural Historical Activity Theory >>>>>>>>> Honorary Research Fellow: Department of Linguistics, Unisa >>>>>>>>> alternative email address: tmacdoca@unisa.ac.za >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >> >> > -- Beth Ferholt Assistant Professor Department of Early Childhood and Art Education Brooklyn College, City University of New York 2900 Bedford Avenue Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu Phone: (718) 951-5205 Fax: (718) 951-4816 From dkellogg60@gmail.com Thu Feb 9 13:59:22 2017 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 06:59:22 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: A methodological question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ulvi: It's a good project, and I agree that the task is not to try to find what Castro is hiding, but rather to understand how he is bringing out what is hidden. That's what I was trying to do in using systemic-functional grammar to analyze Trump's speech, though. I think that the key to understanding Trump is understanding that he is bringing out what was hidden in his predecessors, especially Reagan ("young bucks", "Cadillac welfare moms"), the Bushes (Willie Horton, "crusade") but also Bill Clinton, Joe Biden and even Barack Obama ("Bin Laden is dead and GM is alive" is really another way of saying that corporations are people too). In all of these speakers, things are hidden in the lexis. Trump uses very simple words (a Twitter habit, and also something that helps him end so many sentences with a single falling stress). So a lot of what he wants to actually say has to be in the grammar (especially his uses of appraisal: "so-called", "sad", "tremendous", "disaster"). So I think one way to start analyzing Castro's speeches would be to use the same technique I used for Trump's: Addressee, Theme, Subject, Actor. One advantage of doing this is that it can be done in part by machine--by using wagsoft or sysfunc or just using the lancsbox concordance software. This might be necessary, because some of his speeches are pretty long. I would say that "addressee" is particularly important in Castro: he's quite clear about who he's talking to and why, and in this he is not at all like Trump, who is used to talking to whoever is watching TV at that particular moment. Here are some websites: http://www.isfla.org/Systemics/Software/Coders.html David Kellogg Macquarie University On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 6:43 AM, Ulvi ??il wrote: > Dear xmcas, > > > > I would like to direct to you a methodological question and to kindly have > your idea. > > I am reading Fidel Castro's speeches. They are full of critiques of > neoliberal globalization, capitalism and so on. > > If I would like to study those speeches in terms of the adult educational > aspects, elements they possess (because they are addresses to conscience > of the adult world, mostly Cuban people, various sections of Cuban people > and society) I wonder what would be the best methodology. > > For a study something like: Critical discourse in Fidel Castro's speeches. > > Not CDA, I suppose, because, my aim will not be looking at what lies behind > and hidden in these speeches, because they already demystify capitalism > etc. which means that as an analyst I have a subjectivity which is on the > side of Castro rather than aiming at criticizing him, I intend to make > visible what he criticizes in the global neoliberal world. > > Discourse analysis? > > Thinking that I intend to include into the study all the emotional, > spiritual elements in those speeches, with many evaluations, qualifications > like "teaching, medicine nobel professions" etc. > > Should I study something on the line like "critical discourse (embedded) in > Fidel Castro's speeches"? > > If yes, how? > > And if not, what may be the best possible methodological alternative? > > It is so interesting that while I studied the valuable works of Norman > Fairclough on CDA, on the critique of globalisation etc, which, for the > focus of study, they have, various aspects of capitalist, transnational > company discourse etc, I found that same critique not as an analysis, but, > itself, in Fidel Castro's public speeches, criticizing neoliberal > globalisation etc, so how to study Castro's speech texts?! > > > Thank you very much. > > Ulvi > From ewall@umich.edu Thu Feb 9 14:08:29 2017 From: ewall@umich.edu (Edward Wall) Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2017 16:08:29 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: A methodological question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ulivi This is only a suggestion, but you might find rhetorical structure theory interesting if you want to get at embedding (there is a tool for analysis and some discussion: http://www.sfu.ca/rst/06tools/ ) Ed > On Feb 9, 2017, at 3:43 PM, Ulvi ??il wrote: > > Dear xmcas, > > > > I would like to direct to you a methodological question and to kindly have > your idea. > > I am reading Fidel Castro's speeches. They are full of critiques of > neoliberal globalization, capitalism and so on. > > If I would like to study those speeches in terms of the adult educational > aspects, elements they possess (because they are addresses to conscience > of the adult world, mostly Cuban people, various sections of Cuban people > and society) I wonder what would be the best methodology. > > For a study something like: Critical discourse in Fidel Castro's speeches. > > Not CDA, I suppose, because, my aim will not be looking at what lies behind > and hidden in these speeches, because they already demystify capitalism > etc. which means that as an analyst I have a subjectivity which is on the > side of Castro rather than aiming at criticizing him, I intend to make > visible what he criticizes in the global neoliberal world. > > Discourse analysis? > > Thinking that I intend to include into the study all the emotional, > spiritual elements in those speeches, with many evaluations, qualifications > like "teaching, medicine nobel professions" etc. > > Should I study something on the line like "critical discourse (embedded) in > Fidel Castro's speeches"? > > If yes, how? > > And if not, what may be the best possible methodological alternative? > > It is so interesting that while I studied the valuable works of Norman > Fairclough on CDA, on the critique of globalisation etc, which, for the > focus of study, they have, various aspects of capitalist, transnational > company discourse etc, I found that same critique not as an analysis, but, > itself, in Fidel Castro's public speeches, criticizing neoliberal > globalisation etc, so how to study Castro's speech texts?! > > > Thank you very much. > > Ulvi From wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com Thu Feb 9 14:14:57 2017 From: wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com (Wolff-Michael Roth) Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2017 14:14:57 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fate of a Man In-Reply-To: References: <048522a2-cca0-3e56-cae2-f2142b9fbd5a@mira.net> <1484427999407.2877@iped.uio.no> <2270f5e7-7d82-5150-89a3-808a4e20b89b@mira.net> <9B8D2964-0926-4976-91F2-CDD51E50A6F5@gmail.com> <589ce1e1.4613620a.7f22b.4034@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Responding to Robert's invitation, My book title is not going meta. Instead, it goes to the very hard of mathematical praxis. What is it that allows a mathematician to see in the moves of another a typical mathematical move rather than the move of another. What is it in the doing that makes it mathematical rather scientific, commonsense, chemical... And the book is concerned with showing the sociogenesis of the mathematics of mathematics, the origin of mathematical reasoning AS social relation (more accurately, because of the ideality of mathematics, a societal relation---see Il'enkov, the ideal, the general [obshee]). For the remainder of the paragraphs of the unsigned message, I do not understand a thing. I thought I understood Heidegger a bit, have read many of his works many times. But I do not see how anything in these paragraphs arises out of the thinking of Heidegger, or anyone else who took up and developed the philosopher's thinking, like Derrida or Nancy . . . Michael -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wolff-Michael Roth, Lansdowne Professor Applied Cognitive Science MacLaurin Building A567 University of Victoria Victoria, BC, V8P 5C2 http://web.uvic.ca/~mroth New book: *The Mathematics of Mathematics * On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 1:50 PM, Robert Lake wrote: > For meta question I defer to Professor Roth himself. > (Included in this email). > Robert > > On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 4:40 PM, wrote: > > > Beth, Robert, and the others forming a ?(we)?. > > > > Beth said it is the ?()? within the ?()? that interests her [as being]. > > Maybe Framing is ALL communication, ALL thought, ALL consciousness .... > > Bateson?.... but Beth thinks we need to tackle framing head on [face > into] > > when discussing perezhivanie. > > > > Now I noticed that Wolff-Michael Roth included in the title of his book > > the phrase ? mathematics of mathematics - and my mind wondered to > > conjecture if this is going ?meta? and if ?()? is also going ?meta?. > > > > Could Beth?s ?()? as symbolic also have another aspect [or side] that is > > () = bracket and the doubling ?()? = bracketing the bracket. These > moves > > as examples of going ?meta? which also plays with saying/not saying or > > revealing/concealing that Ed Wall recently posted when he said: > > The truth of the proposition, in effect, resides in the possibility of > > bringing its referents into the light (here is where aletheia takes a > > part); I.e. uncovering. That is, on the LEVEL of ?apophantic as? things > are > > propositionally either true or false, but on the LEVEL of the > ?hermeneutic > > as? they are neither. > > > > However, the ?apophantic as? IS (its being) grounded in interpretation, > > I.e. the ?hermeneutic as? (its being). For Heidegger (and this is an > > oversimplification) ?hermeneutic truth? IS in effect (in use) DISclosure. > > ..... complicated because if one surfaces [metaphor of LEVELS] to the > > apophantic then, in effect (in use) there is a covering back up > > (closure).... Also, and this is most important, the consequent would not > be > > an understanding of Trump?s speech, but an understanding (interpreting) > of > > how ?(I)? understand (interpret) Trump?s speech. > > > > I am travelling back and forth exploring saying as () generating effects > > IN USE, and then doubling back and exploring the () generating effects IN > > USE through ?()? interpretation of the uses. To go hear would have to > > bring in Umberto Eco who pleads for us to make a distinction between > ?use? > > and ?interpretation? AS aspects of semiosis and semiotic but this is for > > another turn. > > > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > > > From: Beth Ferholt > > Sent: February 5, 2017 6:38 PM > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fate of a Man > > > > Thanks for the calling out to Monica and me, Mike and Andy -- I had to > stop > > checking XMCA for a couple of weeks so I did not see the discussion or > your > > notes to me in the chain, until today. One of the the strengths of XMCA > is > > that it creates a conversation that can include people who can not > always? > > respond that very day, or even week, due to various forms of > interruption! > > Often these "interruptions" are children or political events, which canY > > help us to understand perezhivanie. > > > > As well as spending time at JFK, recently, many of us here in New York > have > > been attending local protests to keep our neighborhoods feeling safe for > > everyone. I live in a neighborhood in Brooklyn that includes several > > Muslim communities and several Jewish communities (as well as a few > Russian > > and Polish communities), and at the local protests these past few weeks > > some people have had photographs of their family members who were killed > by > > the Nazis attached to the back of their "never again" signs. Also we all, > > Muslim, Jewish, etc. families, have been often bringing our children to > > the protests. > > > > So I have been thinking a lot about children and hope, during the past > few > > weeks. It is within this frame that I saw this film. I think the film > was > > expecting us to see the child as only benefitting from the main > character's > > lying, saying that he was the child's father, and of course the child did > > benefit, but I think that perezhivanie is about truth, somehow, although > I > > am not sure how. > > > > My second thought is that Manchester by the Sea must have been > referencing > > this film, with its return-to-the-space-where-the-house-was scene, and > > also > > with the choice to replace the lost self (as father) / family or no. I > > think it might help this conversation if we all saw both films, actually. > > Two thoughts on this methods suggestion for our conversation, before I > > return to the topic itself. > > > > 1) It is odd how closely the two films are related, as I did not know > that > > the two films were related when I told Chris to see Manchester by the Sea > > in relation to thinking about perezhivanie. I told Chris when I saw him > in > > person, and I think that discussions about perezhivanie are often > different > > in person. We learned at LCHC in the 2004/5 playworld projects that > these > > in person discussions about perezhivanie have a pronounced proleptic > > structure, mirroring the topic of study, such that the conclusion of the > > discussion appears at the start: It feels like magic is happening. (I > > think this has something to do with how good teachers see the things in > > their classroom that are useful or no before they happen or "behind their > > heads" ... when you are very present you have this "sixth sense," which > is > > really an experience of time moving in two directions at once ... being > > very present can often require a lot of in person time and being with > > children speeds up the process.) > > > > 2) It is a strength that the XMCA conversations can continue through all > of > > our different schedules. It is a negative that they are not in person, > and > > seeing films together can really help. This is where we went on the > > perezhivanie facebook page when it was briefly in English and in Russian > -- > > with a film, and it was very helpful. (Of course I am thinking of this > > while considering the changing role and form of LCHC and Mike's > > participation in LCHC and XMCA. I am thinking of the mistakes that are > > communication. A story about this that I thought of recently, which > shows > > this point well, and seems worth retelling BECAUSE when studying > > perezhivanie the form is often (always??) the study of the content: As a > > newish graduate student Mike once said "thank you" to me when I made a > > comment in the afternoon about an AM conversation that day. Mike's > "thank > > you" encouraged me to pay extra attention to this comment/thought of > mine, > > which later became important in our analysis of a difficult-to-decipher > > playworld event. I was thinking of this event as I walked and talked > with > > a doctoral student of my own -- I seem to have a heavily spacial memory > > process and my student and I were walking through a doorway -- and I > > suddenly realized that Mike could have been thanking me for holding the > > door for him at this time in the past when his feedback was so important > to > > me ... maybe he did not hear my comment, but just thanked me for holding > > the door ... in fact it now appears to me that this was probably the > case!) > > > > The interesting thing to me about the above 2 points is the framing. It > IS > > the "()" within the "()" that interests me. Maybe Framing is all > > communication or all thought or consciousness ... Bateson? ... but I > think > > we need to tackle framing head on when discussing perezhivanie. The two > > films are very different in regards to framing, I think this is why they > > are most interesting to think about together, but first I have two > > citations for thinking about time that I use frequently in my writing on > > perezhivanie. > > > > These seem worth repeating here, as this thinking about time in > space/time > > seems to me to be thinking about framing ... the "()" makes us double > back > > in time as we read -- : > > > > (As to Performance, Alfredo copied the Schechner quote above.) > > > > Dewey's relation of the notion of object to prolepsis (on XMCA): > > Mike (2007) used the term ?temporally double sided? to describe this > > phenomenon of growing back and towards the future and the past > > simultaneously. > > > > What I am (still) thinking about, now, most often: > > It is the juxtaposition of temporal double sidedness with stages that > > creates perezhivanie. What Schechner argues is that this juxtaposition > > provides the rhythm that allows us to raise ourselves up and hover, > > suspended momentarily in a state of being simultaneously ourselves and > not > > ourselves: our past and future selves (someone else). > > > > So my first point is about framing and my second is about children. The > > Fate Of Man is all about the frames / "()". The stories are nested within > > eachother, repeating themselves, maybe even sort of like a fractal, or > > anyhow a spiral? I have some congenital prosopagnosia, getting worse as > I > > age and definitely bad with a film like this. I kept thinking we were > back > > at the ferry as the form of the conversation and context images repeated > > themselves, as I could not recognize the face of the character who was > the > > audience for our hero's story! Manchester by the Sea, on the other hand, > > had no frames. We just jumped right in and rode it through. I only saw > > Manchester once but do others think this is true? relevant? > > > > I think that the question of children's position in relation to adult > > perezhivanie is central in both of these films. The children in both of > > these films appear to want the main characters to try again at being > > fathers. This is a critique of films about children -- I can not think > of > > the name of the person who made this critique, but I can find it for > anyone > > if needed -- : We adults often make films not about children but about > our > > own childhoods. We make films about children who are no longer with us. > > But is this really best for the films, as films are usually best when > they > > are somehow in dialogue with their topic, this is a characteristic of the > > medium, no? > > > > If you do not have some pretense, some playing again, you can not have > > perezhivanie. But I think that Fate of Man is not about perezhivanie, > > although in a different way than Manchester by the Sea is not about > > perezhivanie. In Manchester by the Sea there is no other with whom to > > perezhivanie because the main character and his former wife still love > each > > other, or at lease he still loves her and she returns enough of the love > to > > keep him loving her, and neither of them can pull the other up because > they > > both hit bottom together and in the same story. In Fate of Man there is > is > > no chance for perezhivanie because the other needs to be involved in some > > honest way, or there is no dialogue. > > > > In Fate of Man the hero seems to me to be playing out his memory in the > > real world. A child is not an other with whom one can ever perezhivanie. > > This is not perezhivanie as there is no real world as a player, and this > is > > why our hero's heart will fail him. He did not reach bottom and then > start > > to pull himself up by connecting with another with great bravery. > Instead, > > as he says himself, he just snapped -- he is now living in a dream. > > > > As Larry put it, above in this chain: "In other words, navigating through > > the suffering and existential emptiness is not a hero?s journey." And > this > > point is relevant, again, to our method for studying perezhivanie. I > don't > > think we can manage this one on our own (XMCA), even as a group that > allows > > for conversations over extended time periods. > > > > If form and content are related in this process, I'd say that we won't > > understand this process until we see children as full people. And > > simultaneously as children. Children have something to tell us about > this > > process that no one else can tell us, and they are not going to tell us > > this in a way that those of us who are researchers/scholars can listen, > > without the bridge of the teacher voices. How to include these voices in > > our research is key. And the answer has something to do with art, as > well > > as with time and space. > > > > I am going to send this as it is long enough already, and then catch up > > with the related chains after I do ... And I won't say more now, but I > > agree with all the people who thought this was a great pick to start the > > discussion. Many levels to discuss and I also found many aspects of the > > film related to perezhivanie in many ways! Beth > > > > On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 11:51 PM, Andy Blunden > wrote: > > > > > How about a documentary movie about the first Trump voter who dies as a > > > result of repeal of Obama Care? That would be a perezhivanie within a > > > perezhivanie! > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Andy Blunden > > > http://home.mira.net/~andy > > > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making > > > On 21/01/2017 12:03 PM, Helena Worthen wrote: > > > > > >> I am late to this discussion, but I have been paying attention. I was > > >> reluctant to expose myself to the emotional challenges of the film. I > > knew > > >> that between the majestic music, the stunning black and white images, > > the > > >> beautiful human faces and bodies (and some very ugly ones), and the > > twists > > >> of the story, I was going to be deeply moved. However, I have been > > reading > > >> two books by Svetlana Alexievich -- Voices from Chernobyl and > Secondhand > > >> Time - which tell equally heartbreaking, horrifying stories of > > suffering. > > >> Reading her work inclines me to place the film in the context of the > > period > > >> of deStalinization after Kruschev's 1956 speech to the 20th Congress > of > > the > > >> CPSU, which gave the signal that it was permissible to begin to talk > > freely > > >> about Soviet history. It was a period of trying to build a story that > > could > > >> explain and honor, if not justify, the extreme suffering of the Soviet > > >> people. This film seems to me to set out to accomplish that. So does > > >> Alexievich's book, which is a compilation of interviews done between > > 1991 > > >> and 2012, with people who had something to say (good and bad) about > the > > >> Soviet regime and the experience of its dissolution. She got the 2015 > > Nobel > > >> Prize for this book. And I sense that Andy, or someone, is > anticipating > > >> that the US is going to have to produce some works of scholarship or > > art, > > >> or both, that attempt to explain what is happening now here in the US > -- > > >> for example, this afternoon, under President Trump. > > >> > > >> Helena Worthen > > >> helenaworthen@gmail.com > > >> Vietnam blog: helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > >> > > >> On Jan 19, 2017, at 4:00 PM, Christopher Schuck wrote: > > >> > > >> For some reason I couldn't see the subtitles showing up in Fate of a > Man > > >>> the first time, so I started to watch it dubbed in English instead. > But > > >>> the > > >>> mannered Hollywood accents definitely were not exactly helping to > > convey > > >>> the "real Russian soul" Robbins talks about! It felt like I was being > > >>> asked > > >>> to imagine Cary Grant inhabiting Andrei's perezhivanie-ing body. So, > I > > >>> started over with the subtitled version. > > >>> > > >>> Here are some quick initial reflections: wonderful movie, and in > Andrei > > >>> one > > >>> of the more memorable characters I have seen. But I also found myself > > >>> thinking how big a difference there is between watching a film on my > > >>> 12-inch laptop with headphones (my only option at the moment), and > > >>> sitting > > >>> back and immersing yourself in a darkened theater or at least on a > > >>> widescreen TV without any other distractions, allowing ourselves to > > "fall > > >>> into this space" by virtue of our very awareness of the illusion > > >>> generated > > >>> by the frame, as Beth and Monica put it. This difference becomes even > > >>> bigger if the screen you're viewing it on also enables you to quickly > > >>> check > > >>> email from time to time during the movie, as many people do these > days. > > >>> If > > >>> we are to consider the film experience as a model (analogy?) for > > >>> perezhivanie or even a certain kind of simulation of it, this effect > > that > > >>> occurs when we lose ourselves in a film would be undermined by an > > >>> especially small frame or poor viewing conditions. At what point does > > >>> "the > > >>> knowledge that the movement we experience is just an illusion" (p. 2 > in > > >>> their article) undermine the perezhivanie-like quality of film as > > opposed > > >>> to forming an integral part of it? And, might the way distraction > > >>> functions > > >>> to undermine perezhivanie in the context of film in any way mirror > how > > we > > >>> "distract" ourselves in the course of living lives from conscious > > >>> engagement with the perezhivanie we are otherwise undergoing? Is > > viewing > > >>> a > > >>> film on a 12-inch screen while checking email and calling it an > > >>> "experience" in any way analogous to the self-deceptions and escapes > we > > >>> engage in during the course of either experience-as-struggle or > > >>> experience-as-contemplation? I did not check email while watching > Fate > > >>> of a > > >>> Man, by the way. Just in case you're wondering. > > >>> > > >>> As for the film itself: I was struck by the incidental way in which > the > > >>> earlier loss of his childhood family is introduced and acknowledged > at > > >>> the > > >>> very outset, and how this contrasts with the dramatic ongoing > > >>> perezhivanie > > >>> that ensues going forward: it is as if this early loss is "taken for > > >>> granted" as also part of the Russian experience. We are not privy to > > any > > >>> perezhivanie he might have presumably undergone before that point; it > > is > > >>> simply not "within the frame." At several points, I was reminded of > > >>> Satyajit's World of Apu (last movie in his trilogy), where there was > > >>> also a > > >>> set of early losses and a relationship formed with a "son." Have any > of > > >>> you > > >>> seen it? I think it would also be a good example of perezhivanie. > > >>> > > >>> I would not want to overemphasize the use of literary motifs, since > > >>> Bondarchuk was presumably not making any references to the concept of > > >>> perezhivanie as such. But there were several devices that evoked Beth > > and > > >>> Monica's passage from To The Lighthouse ("Time stand still here"), > and > > >>> their metaphor of a life (or more specifically, a perezhivanie > within a > > >>> life) spiraling back over itself to bring two disparate moments into > > >>> juxtaposition in a way such that "your life becomes three-dimensional > > >>> again" (p. 2). One occurs in the various scenes when Andrei gazes up > at > > >>> the > > >>> sky in reverie and all we see are clouds, or the scene where he lies > in > > >>> the > > >>> grass after his first escape and the camera pans back as it becomes > > very > > >>> quiet, leaving nothing but him swallowed up in the vastness of > nature. > > >>> There is a certain timeless quality to these scenes, a sense that he > is > > >>> momentarily transcending the linear temporal flow of his life as he > > >>> either > > >>> stands outside it and "stands still" in it. It could be a thousand > > years > > >>> passing by in those clouds, or just the 17 years of his second phase; > > it > > >>> suddenly doesn't matter. Another thing I noticed was the use of the > two > > >>> musical themes: the love song the accordionist plays for him and > Irina, > > >>> and > > >>> the festive music incongruously piped in at the concentration camp > > during > > >>> that amazing scene around Part 1, minute 45 where the prisoners are > > being > > >>> marched in and the crematorium is going full blast down the road. At > > some > > >>> point (I couldn't relocate it) Andrei has a flashback where he > revisits > > >>> the > > >>> love song and his memories of Irina; then at minute 20 in Part 2, > while > > >>> processing his family's death after coming home from the war, he > finds > > >>> himself hearing the concentration camp song on the record player and > is > > >>> suddenly transported back to that traumatic experience. Yet he does > not > > >>> smash the record right away; he stares at it for a minute, almost as > if > > >>> he > > >>> is resituating these two moments in relation to each other. > > >>> > > >>> Perhaps I am overanalyzing, but I found both these motifs to speak to > > >>> Beth > > >>> and Monica's examples in the way they bring two moments back into > > contact > > >>> with each other. > > >>> > > >>> Finally, Mike and Andy's discussion in the Misha thread about the > > >>> watching > > >>> of a film functioning as perezhivanie for those viewers for whom it > > >>> reflects and repeats their own experience, raises a question about > the > > >>> difference between extended perezhivanie and the personal > re-enactment > > of > > >>> one's perezhivanie within a much smaller time scale (the two or three > > >>> hours > > >>> spent watching the movie). I hope at some point we could delve more > > into > > >>> this issue of time frame and time scale in various forms of > > perezhivanie. > > >>> > > >>> Chris > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 8:39 PM, Andy Blunden > > wrote: > > >>> > > >>> Thank you Marc! It was the third "plane" which was my intention in > > >>>> providing "Fate of a Man" for discussion. You picked out what were > for > > >>>> me > > >>>> also the main (but by no means the only) instances of perezhivanija > in > > >>>> this > > >>>> movie. > > >>>> > > >>>> It seems to me that Sokolov (the author) offers one perezhivanie in > > >>>> particular as the main theme of the movie. At the beginning of the > > >>>> movie, > > >>>> the man and boy walk up the path to the camera and at the end of the > > >>>> movie > > >>>> they walk off together again. So this is the central theme. As you > > say, > > >>>> when Sokolov's family has all been killed, even his talented > war-hero > > >>>> son > > >>>> who was going to be a famous mathematician, his life has become > > >>>> meaningless. I really liked your reflections of Sokolov's > reflections > > >>>> too. > > >>>> He sees the young orphan boy who, he discovers, has no family and > > >>>> doesn't > > >>>> even know what town he comes from, but is aimlessly living on pieces > > of > > >>>> rubbish. He sees that the two of them are in the same situation. So > > >>>> after > > >>>> some time mulling this over a they sit together in the truck, he > lies > > to > > >>>> the boy and tells him that he is the boy's father, and they embrace. > > But > > >>>> the boy questions this and he reasserts his claim and the boy > accepts > > >>>> this. > > >>>> The man is able to define a new meaning for his life; he has done > this > > >>>> autonomously without the help of a therapist, but he still needs > > >>>> another, > > >>>> the boy, to embody that meaning. But he knows it is his own > invention. > > >>>> The > > >>>> boy on the other hand has to be made to believe it is true; he is > not > > >>>> sufficiently mature to manufacture this meaning himself, but as a > > child > > >>>> he > > >>>> can be guided by an adult. As you say, Marc, it is very significant > > when > > >>>> Sokolov tells us how he is now, again, worried about his own death. > > >>>> What if > > >>>> I died in my sleep? that would be a shock for my son! > > >>>> > > >>>> For me, this reflection causes me to look back on the man's whole > > >>>> struggle > > >>>> during the war: in the first phase he does not differentiate between > > his > > >>>> life as a father and husband and his life as a Soviet citizen - war > is > > >>>> his > > >>>> duty and he is confident, as is everyone else, of victory. His > bravery > > >>>> in > > >>>> driving his truck to the front line under fire reflects the fact > that > > he > > >>>> has never imagined his own death. Then he finds himself prostrate > > >>>> before 2 > > >>>> Nazi soldiers who we assume are going among the wounded shooting > > anyone > > >>>> who > > >>>> has survived. But surprisingly, he is allowed to live, but is to be > > >>>> used as > > >>>> a slave. Sokolov has been confronted by his own mortality for the > > first > > >>>> time and he chooses life, but accepts slavery (Sartre and Hegel both > > >>>> thematize this moment in their philosophy). In this second phase of > > >>>> Sokolov's life he is a survivor. Everything hinges on surviving and > > >>>> returning to his wife and family. As you point out, Marc, his later > > >>>> reflections on this are particularly poignant, when he discovers the > > >>>> futility of this hope. Eventually, the life of forced labour becomes > > >>>> unbearable. He cries out: "Why are we forced to dig 3 cubic metres > > when > > >>>> 1 > > >>>> cubic meter is enough for a grave!" Sokolov has accepted and > embraced > > >>>> death > > >>>> after all. (Transition to the third phase.) To his German masters > this > > >>>> is > > >>>> an unendurable act of defiance. As David points out, there are flaws > > in > > >>>> the > > >>>> scene which follows, but ... he confronts his own death defiantly, > > >>>> stares > > >>>> it in the eye, spits on it, and his life again gains meaning as a > > "brave > > >>>> Soviet soldier" unafraid of death even in such an impossible moment. > > Not > > >>>> only does he survive, but takes the Nazi Colonel prisoner and hands > > the > > >>>> war > > >>>> plans over to the Red Army. Now, when he is offered the chance to > > >>>> return to > > >>>> his wife as a war hero he declines and asks to be sent back to the > > >>>> front. > > >>>> His life has adopted this new meaning which casts his life as a > father > > >>>> into > > >>>> the shade. He no longer fears death. But he is persuaded to take > time > > >>>> off > > >>>> and learns of the death of his family. As Marc relates, the > continued > > >>>> survival of his son, who is now also a war hero, provides continued > > >>>> meaning > > >>>> and integrates the two themes in his life. This takes work, as Marc > > >>>> points > > >>>> out, and he has the assistance of an older man, in achieving this > > >>>> redefinition of his life. But tragically, with the death of his son > > >>>> (and NB > > >>>> the end of the war, albeit in victory) his life is again without > > >>>> meaning. > > >>>> Fourth phase. He has survived, but has no purpose. By becoming a > > father > > >>>> again (Fifth phase), he regains the fear of death and meaning in his > > >>>> life. > > >>>> It is real work, and we witness this psychological turmoil as he > copes > > >>>> with > > >>>> the idea that this scruffy orphan boy could be a son to him, and > > >>>> eventually > > >>>> he manages it. > > >>>> > > >>>> The transition between each phase is a critical period during which > > >>>> Sokolov's personality is transformed. Note also, that there is a > > >>>> premonition of this perezhivanie in Sokolov's earlier life: his > family > > >>>> is > > >>>> wiped out in the Civil War and the famine of 1922, then he meets his > > >>>> wife-to-be, also raised in an orphanage, and they together create a > > life > > >>>> and have 17 happy years before the Nazi invasion intrudes. So from > the > > >>>> beginning of the movie we are introduced to the main theme. > > >>>> > > >>>> These are the main moments in the movie, which caused me to select > it > > >>>> for > > >>>> discussion rather than any other movie. Also, there is no doubt that > > in > > >>>> producing this movie in 1958 the Soviet government was engaged with > > its > > >>>> people, in a process of collective perezhivanie and by reflecting on > > the > > >>>> collective perezhivanie during the period of the war, before and > > after, > > >>>> they aim to assist the people in collectively assigning meaning to > > this > > >>>> terrible suffering and like the man and his "son" walking again into > > the > > >>>> future. As a propaganda movie, of course, it is open to much > > criticism, > > >>>> but > > >>>> that is hardly the point. I appreciate Marc's analysis in terms of > the > > >>>> other concepts he has introduced. I wouldn't mind a recap on these. > In > > >>>> terms of Vasilyuk's concepts, Sokolov's life-world is *simple and > > >>>> difficult*. The boy's life world is *simple and easy*. > > >>>> > > >>>> Can we continue to discuss "Fate of a Man", while I open another > movie > > >>>> for > > >>>> analysis? I think there are at least 10 subscribers to this list who > > >>>> have > > >>>> published in learned journals on the topic of perezhivanie in > > childhood. > > >>>> Perhaps one of you would like to reflect on the boy's perezhivanija? > > >>>> > > >>>> Andy > > >>>> > > >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ > > >>>> Andy Blunden > > >>>> http://home.mira.net/~andy > > >>>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective- > decision-making > > >>>> On 18/01/2017 5:14 AM, Marc Clar? wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>> Hi, all, > > >>>>> > > >>>>> and thank you, Andy, for sharing this amazing film, which I didn't > > >>>>> know. I > > >>>>> think it will be very useful to share and discuss our respective > > views > > >>>>> on > > >>>>> perezhivanie. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> In my view, the film could be analyzed in terms of perezhivanie in > > >>>>> three > > >>>>> different planes. First, we could consider the person who watches > the > > >>>>> film, > > >>>>> and we could study how the meaning she forms for the film > > restructures > > >>>>> her > > >>>>> relationship with aspects of her real life -such as, for example, > her > > >>>>> own > > >>>>> death or the death of a beloved one, etc. (perhaps this is a little > > bit > > >>>>> like what Beth and Monica, or Veresov and Fleer, do with their > study > > of > > >>>>> playworlds?). In this plane, which would be perhaps the most > > >>>>> naturalistic > > >>>>> one, the film could be studied as an human-made cultural artifact > > which > > >>>>> restuctures psychological functions; here, the meaning formed for > the > > >>>>> film > > >>>>> by who watches it and uses it as mediator in her relation to her > real > > >>>>> life > > >>>>> would be an m-perezhivanie. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> In a second plane, we could proceed as if the film was real life, > and > > >>>>> we > > >>>>> could consider Sokolov telling his story to the man he meets by the > > >>>>> river > > >>>>> (a little bit like Carla telling her story to me). In this plane, > > >>>>> Sokolov's > > >>>>> narrative (i.e., what is showed to us as narrated flashback) could > be > > >>>>> considered as a cultural artifact that Sokolov uses to relate to > all > > >>>>> what > > >>>>> happened to him. At this plane, the meaning of this narrative would > > be > > >>>>> the > > >>>>> m-perezhivanie that, in that moment, mediates the relationship > > between > > >>>>> Sokolov and the war events he experienced years ago (but these > events > > >>>>> are > > >>>>> still very present to him, so although relating to past events, > there > > >>>>> is > > >>>>> here a Sokolov's activity [towards the past war events] which is in > > >>>>> present > > >>>>> -this echoes Christopher when, within our conversations, said: > ?Part > > of > > >>>>> this might also be a question of what it means to describe and > > >>>>> represent > > >>>>> one's own perezhivanie figuratively/narratively (whether to others, > > or > > >>>>> to > > >>>>> oneself), as opposed to living that perezhivanie. Especially if the > > >>>>> attempt > > >>>>> to capture/represent one's own perezhivanie is, perhaps, also > central > > >>>>> to > > >>>>> the living of it?? > > >>>>> > > >>>>> In a third plane, we could proceed as if Sokolov's narration was > not > > a > > >>>>> retrospective narration, but the on-time sequence of events with > > >>>>> on-time > > >>>>> Sokolov's explanation of these events (in the moments in which the > > >>>>> narrator > > >>>>> voice is assumed within the flashback). In this plane, there are > > >>>>> several > > >>>>> interesting perezhivanie phenomena. Clearly, there is a Sokolov's > > >>>>> activity > > >>>>> of experiencing-as-struggle, which initiates when he realizes that > > all > > >>>>> his > > >>>>> family, except one son, had been killed 2 years ago. At this > moment, > > >>>>> his > > >>>>> life becomes meaningless; the meaning (m-perezhivanie) he uses to > > >>>>> relate > > >>>>> to > > >>>>> all his life (including the past) at this moment is expressed in > his > > >>>>> conversation with his oncle: ?it's got to be that this life of mine > > is > > >>>>> nothing but a nightmare!?. In this moment, Sokolov's past in the > > >>>>> prision > > >>>>> camp becomes also meaningless: then, his link to life (the > > >>>>> m-perezhivanie > > >>>>> that made being alive meaningful to him) was meeting his family; > but > > at > > >>>>> that time his family was already dead, so when he discovers it, he > > >>>>> realizes > > >>>>> that this m-perezhivanie (the idea of meeting his family) was > linking > > >>>>> him > > >>>>> to death, not to life, so all his efforts to surviving become > > >>>>> meaningless: > > >>>>> ?Every night, when I was a prisioner, I talked with them. Now it > > turns > > >>>>> out > > >>>>> that for two years I was talking with the dead??. In this > > conversation, > > >>>>> however, his oncle offers him an alternative m-perezhivanie to > relate > > >>>>> to > > >>>>> his life: he still has a son, so the m-perehivanie of meeting his > > >>>>> family > > >>>>> can still turns Sokolov's life meaningful: ?you've got to go on > > living. > > >>>>> You > > >>>>> have to find Anatoly. When the war is over, your son will get > > married, > > >>>>> you > > >>>>> will live with them. You will take up your carpentry again, play > with > > >>>>> your > > >>>>> grandkids?. It takes some time to Sokolov to enter into this > > >>>>> m-perezhivanie, but he does it and his life becomes meaningful > again: > > >>>>> ?and > > >>>>> then, unexpectedly, I've got a gleam of sunlight?. But, then, > Anatoly > > >>>>> also > > >>>>> dies. How to keep living? Here, Sokolov holds the m-perezhivanie > that > > >>>>> linked him to life until that moment, and therefore, he needs a > son; > > >>>>> pretending being the father of Vanya turns his life meaningful > again. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Another interesting thing, still at that level, is how Sokolov's > > >>>>> relation > > >>>>> with his own immediate death changes along the different occasions > in > > >>>>> which > > >>>>> he faces it. I thing here there are examples of > > >>>>> experiencing-as-contemplation -in my view, this is not > > >>>>> experiencing-as-struggle because the situation of impossibility > (the > > >>>>> immediate death) is removed existentially (Sokolov's life is given > > >>>>> back to > > >>>>> him), so that there is not a permanent situation of impossibility > > >>>>> which is > > >>>>> initially meaningless and is turned into meaningful. In each > occasion > > >>>>> in > > >>>>> which Sokolov is faced with his immediate death, the m-perezhivanie > > >>>>> that > > >>>>> mediates this relationship is different. When he is captured, his > > >>>>> m-perezhivanie is expressed as: ?here's my death coming after me?. > > >>>>> When he > > >>>>> is conducted to meet the nazi official, the m-perezhivanie is > > expressed > > >>>>> as: > > >>>>> ?the end of your misery?, ?to my death and my release of this > > torment, > > >>>>> I > > >>>>> will drink?. In the first, the death is running after Sokolov; in > the > > >>>>> second, it is Sokolov happily going to meet death. Later, at the > end > > of > > >>>>> the > > >>>>> film, he faces his immediate death again, and the m-perezhivanie is > > >>>>> expressed as: ?I'm really worried that I might die in my sleep, and > > >>>>> that > > >>>>> would frighten my little son?. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Well, just some thoughts after watching this wonderful film. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Best regards, > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Marc. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> 2017-01-15 0:06 GMT+01:00 Christopher Schuck < > > schuckcschuck@gmail.com > > >>>>> >: > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Yes, definitely that article! And specifically, when I used > > "pivoting" > > >>>>> I > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> couldn't help but think of Beth's earlier example about how a > child > > >>>>>> will > > >>>>>> use a stick as a pivot for a horse. Perhaps a somewhat different > > >>>>>> application but related, no? > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 4:06 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > > >>>>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no > > >>>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Chris, all, > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>> your post is totally relevant to Beth's and Monica's article in > the > > >>>>>>> special issue. They write about film and perezhivanie (quoting > > >>>>>>> Sobchack) > > >>>>>>> the following: > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> The reason that film allows us to glimpse the future is that > there > > >>>>>>> is a > > >>>>>>> connection between filmic time and ?real? time: ?The images of a > > film > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> exist > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> in the world as a temporal flow, within finitude and situation. > > >>>>>>> Indeed, > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> the > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> fascination of the film is that it does not transcend our > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> lived-experience > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> of temporality, but rather that it seems to partake of it, to > share > > >>>>>>> it? > > >>>>>>> (1992, p. 60). > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> And later > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> "Specifically, the way that the flow of time becomes > > >>>>>>> multidirectional is > > >>>>>>> that ?rehearsals make it necessary to think of the future in > such a > > >>>>>>> way > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> as > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> to create a past? (1985, p. 39). As Schechner ex-plains: ?In a > very > > >>>>>>> real > > >>>>>>> way the future ? the project coming into existence through the > > >>>>>>> process > > >>>>>>> of > > >>>>>>> rehearsal ? determines the past: what will be kept from earlier > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> rehearsals > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> or from the ?source ma-terials? (1985, p. 39)." > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Alfredo > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> ________________________________________ > > >>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > >>>>>>> du> > > >>>>>>> on behalf of Christopher Schuck > > >>>>>>> Sent: 14 January 2017 21:43 > > >>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > >>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fate of a Man > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> But that's both the limitation and strength of art or fictional > > >>>>>>> narrative > > >>>>>>> as opposed to real life, isn't it? That art focuses our attention > > and > > >>>>>>> highlights certain features in a way that is idealized and > > >>>>>>> artificially > > >>>>>>> "designed" to convey something more clearly and purely (but less > > >>>>>>> organically and authentically) than it would be conveyed in the > > >>>>>>> course > > >>>>>>> of > > >>>>>>> living it, or observing someone else living it? One way to get > > around > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> this > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> would be, as David says, to analyze the film in terms of clues as > to > > >>>>>>> the > > >>>>>>> stages of emergence. But maybe another way to use the film would > be > > >>>>>>> to > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> view > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> it not so much as a complete, self-sufficient "example" of > > >>>>>>> perezhivanie, > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> as > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> a *tool *for pivoting back and forth between the concept of > > >>>>>>> perezhivanie > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> as > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> imaginatively constructed (through fiction), and the concept of > > >>>>>>> perezhivanie as imaginatively constructed (through our real > living > > >>>>>>> experience and observation of it). So, it would be the *pivoting* > > >>>>>>> between > > >>>>>>> these two manifestations of the concept (designed vs. evolved, as > > >>>>>>> David > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> put > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> it) that reveals new insights about perezhivanie, rather than > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> understanding > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> the concept from the film per se. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 3:08 PM, David Kellogg < > > dkellogg60@gmail.com > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> I think there's a good reason why Andy started a new thread on > > this: > > >>>>>>> he's a > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> very tidy thinker (quite unlike yours truly) and he knows that > one > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> reason > > >>>>>>> why xmca threads are seldom cumulative is that they digress to > > >>>>>>> related > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> problems without solving the immmediate ones. > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Yes, of course, a film allows us to consider an example of > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> "perezhivanie", > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> but it is a designed perezhivanie rather than an evolved one; it > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> doesn't > > >>>>>>> explicitly display the various stages of emergence required for a > > >>>>>>> genetic > > >>>>>>> analysis, unless we analyze it not as a complete and finished > work > > of > > >>>>>>> art > > >>>>>>> but instead for clues as to the stages of its creation (the way > > that, > > >>>>>>> for > > >>>>>>> example, "Quietly Flows the Don" was analyzed to determine its > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> authenticity). > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> I remember that In the original short story, the schnapps > drinking > > >>>>>>>> scene seemed like pure sleight of hand: an artistically > gratuitous > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> example > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> of what eventually gave Soviet social realism such a bad name. > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> David Kellogg > > >>>>>>>> Macquarie University > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 10:04 PM, Carol Macdonald < > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> carolmacdon@gmail.com > > >>>>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Fellow XMCa-ers > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> I have watched it through now, thank you Andy, but right now > only > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> empirical > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> psychological categories come to mind. I will watch it again > and > > in > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> the > > >>>>>>>> meanwhile let my fellows with more recent experience of > > >>>>>>>> /perezhivanie/ > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> take > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> the discussion further. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> It is a kind of timeless story, and modern film techniques > would > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> perhaps > > >>>>>>>> be > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> more explicit. At the least I would say it has for me a Russian > > >>>>>>>>> understanding of suffering, perhaps because of their unique > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> experience > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> of > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> it. But having said that, WWII must have generated other similar > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> experiences, apart from the first part about Andrei's family > > dying > > >>>>>>>>> in > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> the > > >>>>>>>> famine. > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Carol > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> On 14 January 2017 at 02:15, Andy Blunden > > >>>>>>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> I watched it in two parts with subtitles: > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16w7fg_destiny-of-a-man- > > >>>>>>>>>> 1959-pt-1_creation > > >>>>>>>>>> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16wat4_destiny-of-a-man- > > >>>>>>>>>> 1959-pt-2_creation > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> Andy > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ > > >>>>>>>>>> Andy Blunden > > >>>>>>>>>> http://home.mira.net/~andy > > >>>>>>>>>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective- > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> decision-making > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> On 14/01/2017 2:35 AM, Beth Ferholt wrote: > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Thank you for taking us to a shared example. I think that > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> having a > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> -- > > >>>>>>>>> Carol A Macdonald Ph.D (Edin) > > >>>>>>>>> Cultural Historical Activity Theory > > >>>>>>>>> Honorary Research Fellow: Department of Linguistics, Unisa > > >>>>>>>>> alternative email address: tmacdoca@unisa.ac.za > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > -- > > Beth Ferholt > > Assistant Professor > > Department of Early Childhood and Art Education > > Brooklyn College, City University of New York > > 2900 Bedford Avenue > > Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 > > > > Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu > > Phone: (718) 951-5205 > > Fax: (718) 951-4816 > > > > > > > -- > Robert Lake Ed.D. > Associate Professor > Social Foundations of Education > Dept. of Curriculum, Foundations, and Reading > Georgia Southern University > P. O. Box 8144, Statesboro, GA 30460 > Secretary/Treasurer-AERA- Paulo Freire Special Interest Group > Webpage: https://georgiasouthern.academia.edu/RobertLake*Those who have > never despaired have neither lived nor loved. Hope is inseparable from > despair. Those of us who truly hope make despair a constant companion whom > we outwrestle every day owing to our commitment to justice, love, and > hope* ( > Cornel West, 2008, p. 185). > From dkellogg60@gmail.com Thu Feb 9 14:39:43 2017 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 07:39:43 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: A methodological question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Right, Ed. Note that there is a systemic-functional version of RST developed by Christian Matthiessen (using "elaboration", "extension", and "enhancement" as the main logico-semantic relations that are realized in parataxis, hypotaxis, and embedding (these are structurally different, but we can functionally relate them). I've always wondered if there is something developmental going on here. It's a grammatical expression of the genetic law, because parataxis is easily SHARED between speakers, hypotaxis is more intra-mental, and "embedding" is when that intra-mentality can be assumed. The latest analysis I did showed no statistically significant change between first graders and sixth graders in Korean schools in their hypotaxis and parataxis, but a big change in embedding. I think one of the reasons that Castro's speeches are so long is that when he embeds, he unpacks with taxis. But the lack of statistical significance in taxis was due to extreme variations within groups, dwarfing the variations between them. The embedding was significant between groups: one of the things that kids learn about Korean is how to embed. Castro: "This nation has had to face the taming of not one tiger, not two tigers, not three tigers, but the taming of 1,000 tigers." Embedding: "of ...." is rankshifted--a noun is embedded in a noun group Castro: "Someone once said that it was a paper tiger, and it is, from a strategic point of view, because some day it will cease being the world's owner." Unpacking: "it was a paper tiger" unpacks "tiger" into a sentence (elaboration) and then explains (enhancement) David Kellogg Macquarie University On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 7:08 AM, Edward Wall wrote: > Ulivi > > This is only a suggestion, but you might find rhetorical structure theory > interesting if you want to get at embedding (there is a tool for analysis > and some discussion: http://www.sfu.ca/rst/06tools/ ) > > Ed > > On Feb 9, 2017, at 3:43 PM, Ulvi ??il wrote: > > > > Dear xmcas, > > > > > > > > I would like to direct to you a methodological question and to kindly > have > > your idea. > > > > I am reading Fidel Castro's speeches. They are full of critiques of > > neoliberal globalization, capitalism and so on. > > > > If I would like to study those speeches in terms of the adult educational > > aspects, elements they possess (because they are addresses to conscience > > of the adult world, mostly Cuban people, various sections of Cuban people > > and society) I wonder what would be the best methodology. > > > > For a study something like: Critical discourse in Fidel Castro's > speeches. > > > > Not CDA, I suppose, because, my aim will not be looking at what lies > behind > > and hidden in these speeches, because they already demystify capitalism > > etc. which means that as an analyst I have a subjectivity which is on the > > side of Castro rather than aiming at criticizing him, I intend to make > > visible what he criticizes in the global neoliberal world. > > > > Discourse analysis? > > > > Thinking that I intend to include into the study all the emotional, > > spiritual elements in those speeches, with many evaluations, > qualifications > > like "teaching, medicine nobel professions" etc. > > > > Should I study something on the line like "critical discourse (embedded) > in > > Fidel Castro's speeches"? > > > > If yes, how? > > > > And if not, what may be the best possible methodological alternative? > > > > It is so interesting that while I studied the valuable works of Norman > > Fairclough on CDA, on the critique of globalisation etc, which, for the > > focus of study, they have, various aspects of capitalist, transnational > > company discourse etc, I found that same critique not as an analysis, > but, > > itself, in Fidel Castro's public speeches, criticizing neoliberal > > globalisation etc, so how to study Castro's speech texts?! > > > > > > Thank you very much. > > > > Ulvi > > > From ewall@umich.edu Thu Feb 9 14:55:31 2017 From: ewall@umich.edu (Edward Wall) Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2017 16:55:31 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: A methodological question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: David I was thinking of the SFL version of RST (I think - although I didn?t check - that the particular tool on this site incorporates some of Mathiessen?s ideas). If you know differently, I would appreciate that information. I think, doing as you did in your previous email, would work well also, but there is, perhaps, with this tool less of a learning curve. Ed > On Feb 9, 2017, at 4:39 PM, David Kellogg wrote: > > Right, Ed. Note that there is a systemic-functional version of RST > developed by Christian Matthiessen (using "elaboration", "extension", and > "enhancement" as the main logico-semantic relations that are realized in > parataxis, hypotaxis, and embedding (these are structurally different, but > we can functionally relate them). > > I've always wondered if there is something developmental going on here. > It's a grammatical expression of the genetic law, because parataxis is > easily SHARED between speakers, hypotaxis is more intra-mental, and > "embedding" is when that intra-mentality can be assumed. > > The latest analysis I did showed no statistically significant change > between first graders and sixth graders in Korean schools in their > hypotaxis and parataxis, but a big change in embedding. I think one of the > reasons that Castro's speeches are so long is that when he embeds, he > unpacks with taxis. But the lack of statistical significance in taxis was > due to extreme variations within groups, dwarfing the variations between > them. The embedding was significant between groups: one of the things that > kids learn about Korean is how to embed. > > Castro: "This nation has had to face the taming of not one tiger, not two > tigers, not three tigers, but the taming of 1,000 tigers." > > Embedding: "of ...." is rankshifted--a noun is embedded in a noun group > > Castro: "Someone once said that it was a paper tiger, and it is, from a > strategic point of view, because some day it will cease being the world's > owner." > > Unpacking: "it was a paper tiger" unpacks "tiger" into a sentence > (elaboration) and then explains (enhancement) > > David Kellogg > Macquarie University > > > > On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 7:08 AM, Edward Wall wrote: > >> Ulivi >> >> This is only a suggestion, but you might find rhetorical structure theory >> interesting if you want to get at embedding (there is a tool for analysis >> and some discussion: http://www.sfu.ca/rst/06tools/ ) >> >> Ed >>> On Feb 9, 2017, at 3:43 PM, Ulvi ??il wrote: >>> >>> Dear xmcas, >>> >>> >>> >>> I would like to direct to you a methodological question and to kindly >> have >>> your idea. >>> >>> I am reading Fidel Castro's speeches. They are full of critiques of >>> neoliberal globalization, capitalism and so on. >>> >>> If I would like to study those speeches in terms of the adult educational >>> aspects, elements they possess (because they are addresses to conscience >>> of the adult world, mostly Cuban people, various sections of Cuban people >>> and society) I wonder what would be the best methodology. >>> >>> For a study something like: Critical discourse in Fidel Castro's >> speeches. >>> >>> Not CDA, I suppose, because, my aim will not be looking at what lies >> behind >>> and hidden in these speeches, because they already demystify capitalism >>> etc. which means that as an analyst I have a subjectivity which is on the >>> side of Castro rather than aiming at criticizing him, I intend to make >>> visible what he criticizes in the global neoliberal world. >>> >>> Discourse analysis? >>> >>> Thinking that I intend to include into the study all the emotional, >>> spiritual elements in those speeches, with many evaluations, >> qualifications >>> like "teaching, medicine nobel professions" etc. >>> >>> Should I study something on the line like "critical discourse (embedded) >> in >>> Fidel Castro's speeches"? >>> >>> If yes, how? >>> >>> And if not, what may be the best possible methodological alternative? >>> >>> It is so interesting that while I studied the valuable works of Norman >>> Fairclough on CDA, on the critique of globalisation etc, which, for the >>> focus of study, they have, various aspects of capitalist, transnational >>> company discourse etc, I found that same critique not as an analysis, >> but, >>> itself, in Fidel Castro's public speeches, criticizing neoliberal >>> globalisation etc, so how to study Castro's speech texts?! >>> >>> >>> Thank you very much. >>> >>> Ulvi >> >> >> From bferholt@gmail.com Thu Feb 9 20:13:46 2017 From: bferholt@gmail.com (Beth Ferholt) Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2017 23:13:46 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fate of a Man In-Reply-To: References: <048522a2-cca0-3e56-cae2-f2142b9fbd5a@mira.net> <1484427999407.2877@iped.uio.no> <2270f5e7-7d82-5150-89a3-808a4e20b89b@mira.net> <9B8D2964-0926-4976-91F2-CDD51E50A6F5@gmail.com> <589ce1e1.4613620a.7f22b.4034@mx.google.com> Message-ID: I am not well enough read to respond to these recent posts but was very interested to talk more about "meta". I have, since I began teaching preschool, thought that the feeling of a "spiral of consciousness" -- is that my own term or from someone else? -- what I mean is when you are stopped in your tracks by a sensation that you are walking above layers of time in one place, or even that you are floating above your self as your mind races in every widening spirals ... that this sensation was familiar because I had felt it often in childhood. I connected it to young children's love of repetition and ritual. I often felt, as a teacher, that the children in my class were walking a bit above the ground most of the time. They appeared to be touching the floor or the asphalt but they were not, usually. This became clear in the misunderstandings between adults and children that make up the life of the preschool (sort of like the one I mentioned above, between me and Mike, but so much larger) -- but I also have some earliest memories of seeing things repeatedly growing and shrinking in a spiral rhythm as I would try to sleep. That is my two cents of response : ) : That something of the nested dolls, or the liar paradox (Hofstadter, 1979 is where I heard that -- Epidemenides/liar paradox), is essential to perezhivaie ... not just a repetition. Beth Beth On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 5:14 PM, Wolff-Michael Roth < wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com> wrote: > Responding to Robert's invitation, > > My book title is not going meta. Instead, it goes to the very hard of > mathematical praxis. What is it that allows a mathematician to see in the > moves of another a typical mathematical move rather than the move of > another. What is it in the doing that makes it mathematical rather > scientific, commonsense, chemical... And the book is concerned with showing > the sociogenesis of the mathematics of mathematics, the origin of > mathematical reasoning AS social relation (more accurately, because of the > ideality of mathematics, a societal relation---see Il'enkov, the ideal, the > general [obshee]). > > For the remainder of the paragraphs of the unsigned message, I do not > understand a thing. I thought I understood Heidegger a bit, have read many > of his works many times. But I do not see how anything in these paragraphs > arises out of the thinking of Heidegger, or anyone else who took up and > developed the philosopher's thinking, like Derrida or Nancy . . . > > Michael > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > -------------------- > Wolff-Michael Roth, Lansdowne Professor > Applied Cognitive Science > MacLaurin Building A567 > University of Victoria > Victoria, BC, V8P 5C2 > http://web.uvic.ca/~mroth > > New book: *The Mathematics of Mathematics > directions-in-mathematics-and-science-education/the- > mathematics-of-mathematics/>* > > On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 1:50 PM, Robert Lake > wrote: > > > For meta question I defer to Professor Roth himself. > > (Included in this email). > > Robert > > > > On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 4:40 PM, wrote: > > > > > Beth, Robert, and the others forming a ?(we)?. > > > > > > Beth said it is the ?()? within the ?()? that interests her [as being]. > > > Maybe Framing is ALL communication, ALL thought, ALL consciousness .... > > > Bateson?.... but Beth thinks we need to tackle framing head on [face > > into] > > > when discussing perezhivanie. > > > > > > Now I noticed that Wolff-Michael Roth included in the title of his book > > > the phrase ? mathematics of mathematics - and my mind wondered to > > > conjecture if this is going ?meta? and if ?()? is also going ?meta?. > > > > > > Could Beth?s ?()? as symbolic also have another aspect [or side] that > is > > > () = bracket and the doubling ?()? = bracketing the bracket. These > > moves > > > as examples of going ?meta? which also plays with saying/not saying or > > > revealing/concealing that Ed Wall recently posted when he said: > > > The truth of the proposition, in effect, resides in the possibility of > > > bringing its referents into the light (here is where aletheia takes a > > > part); I.e. uncovering. That is, on the LEVEL of ?apophantic as? things > > are > > > propositionally either true or false, but on the LEVEL of the > > ?hermeneutic > > > as? they are neither. > > > > > > However, the ?apophantic as? IS (its being) grounded in interpretation, > > > I.e. the ?hermeneutic as? (its being). For Heidegger (and this is an > > > oversimplification) ?hermeneutic truth? IS in effect (in use) > DISclosure. > > > ..... complicated because if one surfaces [metaphor of LEVELS] to the > > > apophantic then, in effect (in use) there is a covering back up > > > (closure).... Also, and this is most important, the consequent would > not > > be > > > an understanding of Trump?s speech, but an understanding (interpreting) > > of > > > how ?(I)? understand (interpret) Trump?s speech. > > > > > > I am travelling back and forth exploring saying as () generating > effects > > > IN USE, and then doubling back and exploring the () generating effects > IN > > > USE through ?()? interpretation of the uses. To go hear would have to > > > bring in Umberto Eco who pleads for us to make a distinction between > > ?use? > > > and ?interpretation? AS aspects of semiosis and semiotic but this is > for > > > another turn. > > > > > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > > > > > From: Beth Ferholt > > > Sent: February 5, 2017 6:38 PM > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fate of a Man > > > > > > Thanks for the calling out to Monica and me, Mike and Andy -- I had to > > stop > > > checking XMCA for a couple of weeks so I did not see the discussion or > > your > > > notes to me in the chain, until today. One of the the strengths of > XMCA > > is > > > that it creates a conversation that can include people who can not > > always? > > > respond that very day, or even week, due to various forms of > > interruption! > > > Often these "interruptions" are children or political events, which > canY > > > help us to understand perezhivanie. > > > > > > As well as spending time at JFK, recently, many of us here in New York > > have > > > been attending local protests to keep our neighborhoods feeling safe > for > > > everyone. I live in a neighborhood in Brooklyn that includes several > > > Muslim communities and several Jewish communities (as well as a few > > Russian > > > and Polish communities), and at the local protests these past few weeks > > > some people have had photographs of their family members who were > killed > > by > > > the Nazis attached to the back of their "never again" signs. Also we > all, > > > Muslim, Jewish, etc. families, have been often bringing our children > to > > > the protests. > > > > > > So I have been thinking a lot about children and hope, during the past > > few > > > weeks. It is within this frame that I saw this film. I think the film > > was > > > expecting us to see the child as only benefitting from the main > > character's > > > lying, saying that he was the child's father, and of course the child > did > > > benefit, but I think that perezhivanie is about truth, somehow, > although > > I > > > am not sure how. > > > > > > My second thought is that Manchester by the Sea must have been > > referencing > > > this film, with its return-to-the-space-where-the-house-was scene, and > > > also > > > with the choice to replace the lost self (as father) / family or no. I > > > think it might help this conversation if we all saw both films, > actually. > > > Two thoughts on this methods suggestion for our conversation, before I > > > return to the topic itself. > > > > > > 1) It is odd how closely the two films are related, as I did not know > > that > > > the two films were related when I told Chris to see Manchester by the > Sea > > > in relation to thinking about perezhivanie. I told Chris when I saw > him > > in > > > person, and I think that discussions about perezhivanie are often > > different > > > in person. We learned at LCHC in the 2004/5 playworld projects that > > these > > > in person discussions about perezhivanie have a pronounced proleptic > > > structure, mirroring the topic of study, such that the conclusion of > the > > > discussion appears at the start: It feels like magic is happening. (I > > > think this has something to do with how good teachers see the things in > > > their classroom that are useful or no before they happen or "behind > their > > > heads" ... when you are very present you have this "sixth sense," which > > is > > > really an experience of time moving in two directions at once ... being > > > very present can often require a lot of in person time and being with > > > children speeds up the process.) > > > > > > 2) It is a strength that the XMCA conversations can continue through > all > > of > > > our different schedules. It is a negative that they are not in person, > > and > > > seeing films together can really help. This is where we went on the > > > perezhivanie facebook page when it was briefly in English and in > Russian > > -- > > > with a film, and it was very helpful. (Of course I am thinking of this > > > while considering the changing role and form of LCHC and Mike's > > > participation in LCHC and XMCA. I am thinking of the mistakes that are > > > communication. A story about this that I thought of recently, which > > shows > > > this point well, and seems worth retelling BECAUSE when studying > > > perezhivanie the form is often (always??) the study of the content: As > a > > > newish graduate student Mike once said "thank you" to me when I made a > > > comment in the afternoon about an AM conversation that day. Mike's > > "thank > > > you" encouraged me to pay extra attention to this comment/thought of > > mine, > > > which later became important in our analysis of a difficult-to-decipher > > > playworld event. I was thinking of this event as I walked and talked > > with > > > a doctoral student of my own -- I seem to have a heavily spacial memory > > > process and my student and I were walking through a doorway -- and I > > > suddenly realized that Mike could have been thanking me for holding the > > > door for him at this time in the past when his feedback was so > important > > to > > > me ... maybe he did not hear my comment, but just thanked me for > holding > > > the door ... in fact it now appears to me that this was probably the > > case!) > > > > > > The interesting thing to me about the above 2 points is the framing. > It > > IS > > > the "()" within the "()" that interests me. Maybe Framing is all > > > communication or all thought or consciousness ... Bateson? ... but I > > think > > > we need to tackle framing head on when discussing perezhivanie. The > two > > > films are very different in regards to framing, I think this is why > they > > > are most interesting to think about together, but first I have two > > > citations for thinking about time that I use frequently in my writing > on > > > perezhivanie. > > > > > > These seem worth repeating here, as this thinking about time in > > space/time > > > seems to me to be thinking about framing ... the "()" makes us double > > back > > > in time as we read -- : > > > > > > (As to Performance, Alfredo copied the Schechner quote above.) > > > > > > Dewey's relation of the notion of object to prolepsis (on XMCA): > > > Mike (2007) used the term ?temporally double sided? to describe this > > > phenomenon of growing back and towards the future and the past > > > simultaneously. > > > > > > What I am (still) thinking about, now, most often: > > > It is the juxtaposition of temporal double sidedness with stages that > > > creates perezhivanie. What Schechner argues is that this juxtaposition > > > provides the rhythm that allows us to raise ourselves up and hover, > > > suspended momentarily in a state of being simultaneously ourselves and > > not > > > ourselves: our past and future selves (someone else). > > > > > > So my first point is about framing and my second is about children. > The > > > Fate Of Man is all about the frames / "()". The stories are nested > within > > > eachother, repeating themselves, maybe even sort of like a fractal, or > > > anyhow a spiral? I have some congenital prosopagnosia, getting worse > as > > I > > > age and definitely bad with a film like this. I kept thinking we were > > back > > > at the ferry as the form of the conversation and context images > repeated > > > themselves, as I could not recognize the face of the character who was > > the > > > audience for our hero's story! Manchester by the Sea, on the other > hand, > > > had no frames. We just jumped right in and rode it through. I only saw > > > Manchester once but do others think this is true? relevant? > > > > > > I think that the question of children's position in relation to adult > > > perezhivanie is central in both of these films. The children in both of > > > these films appear to want the main characters to try again at being > > > fathers. This is a critique of films about children -- I can not think > > of > > > the name of the person who made this critique, but I can find it for > > anyone > > > if needed -- : We adults often make films not about children but about > > our > > > own childhoods. We make films about children who are no longer with > us. > > > But is this really best for the films, as films are usually best when > > they > > > are somehow in dialogue with their topic, this is a characteristic of > the > > > medium, no? > > > > > > If you do not have some pretense, some playing again, you can not have > > > perezhivanie. But I think that Fate of Man is not about perezhivanie, > > > although in a different way than Manchester by the Sea is not about > > > perezhivanie. In Manchester by the Sea there is no other with whom to > > > perezhivanie because the main character and his former wife still love > > each > > > other, or at lease he still loves her and she returns enough of the > love > > to > > > keep him loving her, and neither of them can pull the other up because > > they > > > both hit bottom together and in the same story. In Fate of Man there > is > > is > > > no chance for perezhivanie because the other needs to be involved in > some > > > honest way, or there is no dialogue. > > > > > > In Fate of Man the hero seems to me to be playing out his memory in the > > > real world. A child is not an other with whom one can ever > perezhivanie. > > > This is not perezhivanie as there is no real world as a player, and > this > > is > > > why our hero's heart will fail him. He did not reach bottom and then > > start > > > to pull himself up by connecting with another with great bravery. > > Instead, > > > as he says himself, he just snapped -- he is now living in a dream. > > > > > > As Larry put it, above in this chain: "In other words, navigating > through > > > the suffering and existential emptiness is not a hero?s journey." And > > this > > > point is relevant, again, to our method for studying perezhivanie. I > > don't > > > think we can manage this one on our own (XMCA), even as a group that > > allows > > > for conversations over extended time periods. > > > > > > If form and content are related in this process, I'd say that we won't > > > understand this process until we see children as full people. And > > > simultaneously as children. Children have something to tell us about > > this > > > process that no one else can tell us, and they are not going to tell us > > > this in a way that those of us who are researchers/scholars can listen, > > > without the bridge of the teacher voices. How to include these voices > in > > > our research is key. And the answer has something to do with art, as > > well > > > as with time and space. > > > > > > I am going to send this as it is long enough already, and then catch up > > > with the related chains after I do ... And I won't say more now, but I > > > agree with all the people who thought this was a great pick to start > the > > > discussion. Many levels to discuss and I also found many aspects of > the > > > film related to perezhivanie in many ways! Beth > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 11:51 PM, Andy Blunden > > wrote: > > > > > > > How about a documentary movie about the first Trump voter who dies > as a > > > > result of repeal of Obama Care? That would be a perezhivanie within a > > > > perezhivanie! > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > Andy Blunden > > > > http://home.mira.net/~andy > > > > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective- > decision-making > > > > On 21/01/2017 12:03 PM, Helena Worthen wrote: > > > > > > > >> I am late to this discussion, but I have been paying attention. I > was > > > >> reluctant to expose myself to the emotional challenges of the film. > I > > > knew > > > >> that between the majestic music, the stunning black and white > images, > > > the > > > >> beautiful human faces and bodies (and some very ugly ones), and the > > > twists > > > >> of the story, I was going to be deeply moved. However, I have been > > > reading > > > >> two books by Svetlana Alexievich -- Voices from Chernobyl and > > Secondhand > > > >> Time - which tell equally heartbreaking, horrifying stories of > > > suffering. > > > >> Reading her work inclines me to place the film in the context of the > > > period > > > >> of deStalinization after Kruschev's 1956 speech to the 20th Congress > > of > > > the > > > >> CPSU, which gave the signal that it was permissible to begin to talk > > > freely > > > >> about Soviet history. It was a period of trying to build a story > that > > > could > > > >> explain and honor, if not justify, the extreme suffering of the > Soviet > > > >> people. This film seems to me to set out to accomplish that. So does > > > >> Alexievich's book, which is a compilation of interviews done between > > > 1991 > > > >> and 2012, with people who had something to say (good and bad) about > > the > > > >> Soviet regime and the experience of its dissolution. She got the > 2015 > > > Nobel > > > >> Prize for this book. And I sense that Andy, or someone, is > > anticipating > > > >> that the US is going to have to produce some works of scholarship or > > > art, > > > >> or both, that attempt to explain what is happening now here in the > US > > -- > > > >> for example, this afternoon, under President Trump. > > > >> > > > >> Helena Worthen > > > >> helenaworthen@gmail.com > > > >> Vietnam blog: helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > > >> > > > >> On Jan 19, 2017, at 4:00 PM, Christopher Schuck wrote: > > > >> > > > >> For some reason I couldn't see the subtitles showing up in Fate of a > > Man > > > >>> the first time, so I started to watch it dubbed in English instead. > > But > > > >>> the > > > >>> mannered Hollywood accents definitely were not exactly helping to > > > convey > > > >>> the "real Russian soul" Robbins talks about! It felt like I was > being > > > >>> asked > > > >>> to imagine Cary Grant inhabiting Andrei's perezhivanie-ing body. > So, > > I > > > >>> started over with the subtitled version. > > > >>> > > > >>> Here are some quick initial reflections: wonderful movie, and in > > Andrei > > > >>> one > > > >>> of the more memorable characters I have seen. But I also found > myself > > > >>> thinking how big a difference there is between watching a film on > my > > > >>> 12-inch laptop with headphones (my only option at the moment), and > > > >>> sitting > > > >>> back and immersing yourself in a darkened theater or at least on a > > > >>> widescreen TV without any other distractions, allowing ourselves to > > > "fall > > > >>> into this space" by virtue of our very awareness of the illusion > > > >>> generated > > > >>> by the frame, as Beth and Monica put it. This difference becomes > even > > > >>> bigger if the screen you're viewing it on also enables you to > quickly > > > >>> check > > > >>> email from time to time during the movie, as many people do these > > days. > > > >>> If > > > >>> we are to consider the film experience as a model (analogy?) for > > > >>> perezhivanie or even a certain kind of simulation of it, this > effect > > > that > > > >>> occurs when we lose ourselves in a film would be undermined by an > > > >>> especially small frame or poor viewing conditions. At what point > does > > > >>> "the > > > >>> knowledge that the movement we experience is just an illusion" (p. > 2 > > in > > > >>> their article) undermine the perezhivanie-like quality of film as > > > opposed > > > >>> to forming an integral part of it? And, might the way distraction > > > >>> functions > > > >>> to undermine perezhivanie in the context of film in any way mirror > > how > > > we > > > >>> "distract" ourselves in the course of living lives from conscious > > > >>> engagement with the perezhivanie we are otherwise undergoing? Is > > > viewing > > > >>> a > > > >>> film on a 12-inch screen while checking email and calling it an > > > >>> "experience" in any way analogous to the self-deceptions and > escapes > > we > > > >>> engage in during the course of either experience-as-struggle or > > > >>> experience-as-contemplation? I did not check email while watching > > Fate > > > >>> of a > > > >>> Man, by the way. Just in case you're wondering. > > > >>> > > > >>> As for the film itself: I was struck by the incidental way in which > > the > > > >>> earlier loss of his childhood family is introduced and acknowledged > > at > > > >>> the > > > >>> very outset, and how this contrasts with the dramatic ongoing > > > >>> perezhivanie > > > >>> that ensues going forward: it is as if this early loss is "taken > for > > > >>> granted" as also part of the Russian experience. We are not privy > to > > > any > > > >>> perezhivanie he might have presumably undergone before that point; > it > > > is > > > >>> simply not "within the frame." At several points, I was reminded of > > > >>> Satyajit's World of Apu (last movie in his trilogy), where there > was > > > >>> also a > > > >>> set of early losses and a relationship formed with a "son." Have > any > > of > > > >>> you > > > >>> seen it? I think it would also be a good example of perezhivanie. > > > >>> > > > >>> I would not want to overemphasize the use of literary motifs, since > > > >>> Bondarchuk was presumably not making any references to the concept > of > > > >>> perezhivanie as such. But there were several devices that evoked > Beth > > > and > > > >>> Monica's passage from To The Lighthouse ("Time stand still here"), > > and > > > >>> their metaphor of a life (or more specifically, a perezhivanie > > within a > > > >>> life) spiraling back over itself to bring two disparate moments > into > > > >>> juxtaposition in a way such that "your life becomes > three-dimensional > > > >>> again" (p. 2). One occurs in the various scenes when Andrei gazes > up > > at > > > >>> the > > > >>> sky in reverie and all we see are clouds, or the scene where he > lies > > in > > > >>> the > > > >>> grass after his first escape and the camera pans back as it becomes > > > very > > > >>> quiet, leaving nothing but him swallowed up in the vastness of > > nature. > > > >>> There is a certain timeless quality to these scenes, a sense that > he > > is > > > >>> momentarily transcending the linear temporal flow of his life as he > > > >>> either > > > >>> stands outside it and "stands still" in it. It could be a thousand > > > years > > > >>> passing by in those clouds, or just the 17 years of his second > phase; > > > it > > > >>> suddenly doesn't matter. Another thing I noticed was the use of the > > two > > > >>> musical themes: the love song the accordionist plays for him and > > Irina, > > > >>> and > > > >>> the festive music incongruously piped in at the concentration camp > > > during > > > >>> that amazing scene around Part 1, minute 45 where the prisoners are > > > being > > > >>> marched in and the crematorium is going full blast down the road. > At > > > some > > > >>> point (I couldn't relocate it) Andrei has a flashback where he > > revisits > > > >>> the > > > >>> love song and his memories of Irina; then at minute 20 in Part 2, > > while > > > >>> processing his family's death after coming home from the war, he > > finds > > > >>> himself hearing the concentration camp song on the record player > and > > is > > > >>> suddenly transported back to that traumatic experience. Yet he does > > not > > > >>> smash the record right away; he stares at it for a minute, almost > as > > if > > > >>> he > > > >>> is resituating these two moments in relation to each other. > > > >>> > > > >>> Perhaps I am overanalyzing, but I found both these motifs to speak > to > > > >>> Beth > > > >>> and Monica's examples in the way they bring two moments back into > > > contact > > > >>> with each other. > > > >>> > > > >>> Finally, Mike and Andy's discussion in the Misha thread about the > > > >>> watching > > > >>> of a film functioning as perezhivanie for those viewers for whom it > > > >>> reflects and repeats their own experience, raises a question about > > the > > > >>> difference between extended perezhivanie and the personal > > re-enactment > > > of > > > >>> one's perezhivanie within a much smaller time scale (the two or > three > > > >>> hours > > > >>> spent watching the movie). I hope at some point we could delve more > > > into > > > >>> this issue of time frame and time scale in various forms of > > > perezhivanie. > > > >>> > > > >>> Chris > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 8:39 PM, Andy Blunden > > > wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>> Thank you Marc! It was the third "plane" which was my intention in > > > >>>> providing "Fate of a Man" for discussion. You picked out what were > > for > > > >>>> me > > > >>>> also the main (but by no means the only) instances of > perezhivanija > > in > > > >>>> this > > > >>>> movie. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> It seems to me that Sokolov (the author) offers one perezhivanie > in > > > >>>> particular as the main theme of the movie. At the beginning of the > > > >>>> movie, > > > >>>> the man and boy walk up the path to the camera and at the end of > the > > > >>>> movie > > > >>>> they walk off together again. So this is the central theme. As you > > > say, > > > >>>> when Sokolov's family has all been killed, even his talented > > war-hero > > > >>>> son > > > >>>> who was going to be a famous mathematician, his life has become > > > >>>> meaningless. I really liked your reflections of Sokolov's > > reflections > > > >>>> too. > > > >>>> He sees the young orphan boy who, he discovers, has no family and > > > >>>> doesn't > > > >>>> even know what town he comes from, but is aimlessly living on > pieces > > > of > > > >>>> rubbish. He sees that the two of them are in the same situation. > So > > > >>>> after > > > >>>> some time mulling this over a they sit together in the truck, he > > lies > > > to > > > >>>> the boy and tells him that he is the boy's father, and they > embrace. > > > But > > > >>>> the boy questions this and he reasserts his claim and the boy > > accepts > > > >>>> this. > > > >>>> The man is able to define a new meaning for his life; he has done > > this > > > >>>> autonomously without the help of a therapist, but he still needs > > > >>>> another, > > > >>>> the boy, to embody that meaning. But he knows it is his own > > invention. > > > >>>> The > > > >>>> boy on the other hand has to be made to believe it is true; he is > > not > > > >>>> sufficiently mature to manufacture this meaning himself, but as a > > > child > > > >>>> he > > > >>>> can be guided by an adult. As you say, Marc, it is very > significant > > > when > > > >>>> Sokolov tells us how he is now, again, worried about his own > death. > > > >>>> What if > > > >>>> I died in my sleep? that would be a shock for my son! > > > >>>> > > > >>>> For me, this reflection causes me to look back on the man's whole > > > >>>> struggle > > > >>>> during the war: in the first phase he does not differentiate > between > > > his > > > >>>> life as a father and husband and his life as a Soviet citizen - > war > > is > > > >>>> his > > > >>>> duty and he is confident, as is everyone else, of victory. His > > bravery > > > >>>> in > > > >>>> driving his truck to the front line under fire reflects the fact > > that > > > he > > > >>>> has never imagined his own death. Then he finds himself prostrate > > > >>>> before 2 > > > >>>> Nazi soldiers who we assume are going among the wounded shooting > > > anyone > > > >>>> who > > > >>>> has survived. But surprisingly, he is allowed to live, but is to > be > > > >>>> used as > > > >>>> a slave. Sokolov has been confronted by his own mortality for the > > > first > > > >>>> time and he chooses life, but accepts slavery (Sartre and Hegel > both > > > >>>> thematize this moment in their philosophy). In this second phase > of > > > >>>> Sokolov's life he is a survivor. Everything hinges on surviving > and > > > >>>> returning to his wife and family. As you point out, Marc, his > later > > > >>>> reflections on this are particularly poignant, when he discovers > the > > > >>>> futility of this hope. Eventually, the life of forced labour > becomes > > > >>>> unbearable. He cries out: "Why are we forced to dig 3 cubic metres > > > when > > > >>>> 1 > > > >>>> cubic meter is enough for a grave!" Sokolov has accepted and > > embraced > > > >>>> death > > > >>>> after all. (Transition to the third phase.) To his German masters > > this > > > >>>> is > > > >>>> an unendurable act of defiance. As David points out, there are > flaws > > > in > > > >>>> the > > > >>>> scene which follows, but ... he confronts his own death defiantly, > > > >>>> stares > > > >>>> it in the eye, spits on it, and his life again gains meaning as a > > > "brave > > > >>>> Soviet soldier" unafraid of death even in such an impossible > moment. > > > Not > > > >>>> only does he survive, but takes the Nazi Colonel prisoner and > hands > > > the > > > >>>> war > > > >>>> plans over to the Red Army. Now, when he is offered the chance to > > > >>>> return to > > > >>>> his wife as a war hero he declines and asks to be sent back to the > > > >>>> front. > > > >>>> His life has adopted this new meaning which casts his life as a > > father > > > >>>> into > > > >>>> the shade. He no longer fears death. But he is persuaded to take > > time > > > >>>> off > > > >>>> and learns of the death of his family. As Marc relates, the > > continued > > > >>>> survival of his son, who is now also a war hero, provides > continued > > > >>>> meaning > > > >>>> and integrates the two themes in his life. This takes work, as > Marc > > > >>>> points > > > >>>> out, and he has the assistance of an older man, in achieving this > > > >>>> redefinition of his life. But tragically, with the death of his > son > > > >>>> (and NB > > > >>>> the end of the war, albeit in victory) his life is again without > > > >>>> meaning. > > > >>>> Fourth phase. He has survived, but has no purpose. By becoming a > > > father > > > >>>> again (Fifth phase), he regains the fear of death and meaning in > his > > > >>>> life. > > > >>>> It is real work, and we witness this psychological turmoil as he > > copes > > > >>>> with > > > >>>> the idea that this scruffy orphan boy could be a son to him, and > > > >>>> eventually > > > >>>> he manages it. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> The transition between each phase is a critical period during > which > > > >>>> Sokolov's personality is transformed. Note also, that there is a > > > >>>> premonition of this perezhivanie in Sokolov's earlier life: his > > family > > > >>>> is > > > >>>> wiped out in the Civil War and the famine of 1922, then he meets > his > > > >>>> wife-to-be, also raised in an orphanage, and they together create > a > > > life > > > >>>> and have 17 happy years before the Nazi invasion intrudes. So from > > the > > > >>>> beginning of the movie we are introduced to the main theme. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> These are the main moments in the movie, which caused me to select > > it > > > >>>> for > > > >>>> discussion rather than any other movie. Also, there is no doubt > that > > > in > > > >>>> producing this movie in 1958 the Soviet government was engaged > with > > > its > > > >>>> people, in a process of collective perezhivanie and by reflecting > on > > > the > > > >>>> collective perezhivanie during the period of the war, before and > > > after, > > > >>>> they aim to assist the people in collectively assigning meaning to > > > this > > > >>>> terrible suffering and like the man and his "son" walking again > into > > > the > > > >>>> future. As a propaganda movie, of course, it is open to much > > > criticism, > > > >>>> but > > > >>>> that is hardly the point. I appreciate Marc's analysis in terms of > > the > > > >>>> other concepts he has introduced. I wouldn't mind a recap on > these. > > In > > > >>>> terms of Vasilyuk's concepts, Sokolov's life-world is *simple and > > > >>>> difficult*. The boy's life world is *simple and easy*. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Can we continue to discuss "Fate of a Man", while I open another > > movie > > > >>>> for > > > >>>> analysis? I think there are at least 10 subscribers to this list > who > > > >>>> have > > > >>>> published in learned journals on the topic of perezhivanie in > > > childhood. > > > >>>> Perhaps one of you would like to reflect on the boy's > perezhivanija? > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Andy > > > >>>> > > > >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > >>>> Andy Blunden > > > >>>> http://home.mira.net/~andy > > > >>>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective- > > decision-making > > > >>>> On 18/01/2017 5:14 AM, Marc Clar? wrote: > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Hi, all, > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> and thank you, Andy, for sharing this amazing film, which I > didn't > > > >>>>> know. I > > > >>>>> think it will be very useful to share and discuss our respective > > > views > > > >>>>> on > > > >>>>> perezhivanie. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> In my view, the film could be analyzed in terms of perezhivanie > in > > > >>>>> three > > > >>>>> different planes. First, we could consider the person who watches > > the > > > >>>>> film, > > > >>>>> and we could study how the meaning she forms for the film > > > restructures > > > >>>>> her > > > >>>>> relationship with aspects of her real life -such as, for example, > > her > > > >>>>> own > > > >>>>> death or the death of a beloved one, etc. (perhaps this is a > little > > > bit > > > >>>>> like what Beth and Monica, or Veresov and Fleer, do with their > > study > > > of > > > >>>>> playworlds?). In this plane, which would be perhaps the most > > > >>>>> naturalistic > > > >>>>> one, the film could be studied as an human-made cultural artifact > > > which > > > >>>>> restuctures psychological functions; here, the meaning formed for > > the > > > >>>>> film > > > >>>>> by who watches it and uses it as mediator in her relation to her > > real > > > >>>>> life > > > >>>>> would be an m-perezhivanie. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> In a second plane, we could proceed as if the film was real life, > > and > > > >>>>> we > > > >>>>> could consider Sokolov telling his story to the man he meets by > the > > > >>>>> river > > > >>>>> (a little bit like Carla telling her story to me). In this plane, > > > >>>>> Sokolov's > > > >>>>> narrative (i.e., what is showed to us as narrated flashback) > could > > be > > > >>>>> considered as a cultural artifact that Sokolov uses to relate to > > all > > > >>>>> what > > > >>>>> happened to him. At this plane, the meaning of this narrative > would > > > be > > > >>>>> the > > > >>>>> m-perezhivanie that, in that moment, mediates the relationship > > > between > > > >>>>> Sokolov and the war events he experienced years ago (but these > > events > > > >>>>> are > > > >>>>> still very present to him, so although relating to past events, > > there > > > >>>>> is > > > >>>>> here a Sokolov's activity [towards the past war events] which is > in > > > >>>>> present > > > >>>>> -this echoes Christopher when, within our conversations, said: > > ?Part > > > of > > > >>>>> this might also be a question of what it means to describe and > > > >>>>> represent > > > >>>>> one's own perezhivanie figuratively/narratively (whether to > others, > > > or > > > >>>>> to > > > >>>>> oneself), as opposed to living that perezhivanie. Especially if > the > > > >>>>> attempt > > > >>>>> to capture/represent one's own perezhivanie is, perhaps, also > > central > > > >>>>> to > > > >>>>> the living of it?? > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> In a third plane, we could proceed as if Sokolov's narration was > > not > > > a > > > >>>>> retrospective narration, but the on-time sequence of events with > > > >>>>> on-time > > > >>>>> Sokolov's explanation of these events (in the moments in which > the > > > >>>>> narrator > > > >>>>> voice is assumed within the flashback). In this plane, there are > > > >>>>> several > > > >>>>> interesting perezhivanie phenomena. Clearly, there is a Sokolov's > > > >>>>> activity > > > >>>>> of experiencing-as-struggle, which initiates when he realizes > that > > > all > > > >>>>> his > > > >>>>> family, except one son, had been killed 2 years ago. At this > > moment, > > > >>>>> his > > > >>>>> life becomes meaningless; the meaning (m-perezhivanie) he uses to > > > >>>>> relate > > > >>>>> to > > > >>>>> all his life (including the past) at this moment is expressed in > > his > > > >>>>> conversation with his oncle: ?it's got to be that this life of > mine > > > is > > > >>>>> nothing but a nightmare!?. In this moment, Sokolov's past in the > > > >>>>> prision > > > >>>>> camp becomes also meaningless: then, his link to life (the > > > >>>>> m-perezhivanie > > > >>>>> that made being alive meaningful to him) was meeting his family; > > but > > > at > > > >>>>> that time his family was already dead, so when he discovers it, > he > > > >>>>> realizes > > > >>>>> that this m-perezhivanie (the idea of meeting his family) was > > linking > > > >>>>> him > > > >>>>> to death, not to life, so all his efforts to surviving become > > > >>>>> meaningless: > > > >>>>> ?Every night, when I was a prisioner, I talked with them. Now it > > > turns > > > >>>>> out > > > >>>>> that for two years I was talking with the dead??. In this > > > conversation, > > > >>>>> however, his oncle offers him an alternative m-perezhivanie to > > relate > > > >>>>> to > > > >>>>> his life: he still has a son, so the m-perehivanie of meeting his > > > >>>>> family > > > >>>>> can still turns Sokolov's life meaningful: ?you've got to go on > > > living. > > > >>>>> You > > > >>>>> have to find Anatoly. When the war is over, your son will get > > > married, > > > >>>>> you > > > >>>>> will live with them. You will take up your carpentry again, play > > with > > > >>>>> your > > > >>>>> grandkids?. It takes some time to Sokolov to enter into this > > > >>>>> m-perezhivanie, but he does it and his life becomes meaningful > > again: > > > >>>>> ?and > > > >>>>> then, unexpectedly, I've got a gleam of sunlight?. But, then, > > Anatoly > > > >>>>> also > > > >>>>> dies. How to keep living? Here, Sokolov holds the m-perezhivanie > > that > > > >>>>> linked him to life until that moment, and therefore, he needs a > > son; > > > >>>>> pretending being the father of Vanya turns his life meaningful > > again. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Another interesting thing, still at that level, is how Sokolov's > > > >>>>> relation > > > >>>>> with his own immediate death changes along the different > occasions > > in > > > >>>>> which > > > >>>>> he faces it. I thing here there are examples of > > > >>>>> experiencing-as-contemplation -in my view, this is not > > > >>>>> experiencing-as-struggle because the situation of impossibility > > (the > > > >>>>> immediate death) is removed existentially (Sokolov's life is > given > > > >>>>> back to > > > >>>>> him), so that there is not a permanent situation of impossibility > > > >>>>> which is > > > >>>>> initially meaningless and is turned into meaningful. In each > > occasion > > > >>>>> in > > > >>>>> which Sokolov is faced with his immediate death, the > m-perezhivanie > > > >>>>> that > > > >>>>> mediates this relationship is different. When he is captured, his > > > >>>>> m-perezhivanie is expressed as: ?here's my death coming after > me?. > > > >>>>> When he > > > >>>>> is conducted to meet the nazi official, the m-perezhivanie is > > > expressed > > > >>>>> as: > > > >>>>> ?the end of your misery?, ?to my death and my release of this > > > torment, > > > >>>>> I > > > >>>>> will drink?. In the first, the death is running after Sokolov; in > > the > > > >>>>> second, it is Sokolov happily going to meet death. Later, at the > > end > > > of > > > >>>>> the > > > >>>>> film, he faces his immediate death again, and the m-perezhivanie > is > > > >>>>> expressed as: ?I'm really worried that I might die in my sleep, > and > > > >>>>> that > > > >>>>> would frighten my little son?. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Well, just some thoughts after watching this wonderful film. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Best regards, > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Marc. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> 2017-01-15 0:06 GMT+01:00 Christopher Schuck < > > > schuckcschuck@gmail.com > > > >>>>> >: > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Yes, definitely that article! And specifically, when I used > > > "pivoting" > > > >>>>> I > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>>> couldn't help but think of Beth's earlier example about how a > > child > > > >>>>>> will > > > >>>>>> use a stick as a pivot for a horse. Perhaps a somewhat different > > > >>>>>> application but related, no? > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 4:06 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > > > >>>>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no > > > >>>>>> wrote: > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> Chris, all, > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> your post is totally relevant to Beth's and Monica's article in > > the > > > >>>>>>> special issue. They write about film and perezhivanie (quoting > > > >>>>>>> Sobchack) > > > >>>>>>> the following: > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> The reason that film allows us to glimpse the future is that > > there > > > >>>>>>> is a > > > >>>>>>> connection between filmic time and ?real? time: ?The images of > a > > > film > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> exist > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> in the world as a temporal flow, within finitude and situation. > > > >>>>>>> Indeed, > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> the > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> fascination of the film is that it does not transcend our > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> lived-experience > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> of temporality, but rather that it seems to partake of it, to > > share > > > >>>>>>> it? > > > >>>>>>> (1992, p. 60). > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> And later > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> "Specifically, the way that the flow of time becomes > > > >>>>>>> multidirectional is > > > >>>>>>> that ?rehearsals make it necessary to think of the future in > > such a > > > >>>>>>> way > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> as > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> to create a past? (1985, p. 39). As Schechner ex-plains: ?In a > > very > > > >>>>>>> real > > > >>>>>>> way the future ? the project coming into existence through the > > > >>>>>>> process > > > >>>>>>> of > > > >>>>>>> rehearsal ? determines the past: what will be kept from earlier > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> rehearsals > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> or from the ?source ma-terials? (1985, p. 39)." > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> Alfredo > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> ________________________________________ > > > >>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > > >>>>>>> du> > > > >>>>>>> on behalf of Christopher Schuck > > > >>>>>>> Sent: 14 January 2017 21:43 > > > >>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > >>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fate of a Man > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> But that's both the limitation and strength of art or fictional > > > >>>>>>> narrative > > > >>>>>>> as opposed to real life, isn't it? That art focuses our > attention > > > and > > > >>>>>>> highlights certain features in a way that is idealized and > > > >>>>>>> artificially > > > >>>>>>> "designed" to convey something more clearly and purely (but > less > > > >>>>>>> organically and authentically) than it would be conveyed in the > > > >>>>>>> course > > > >>>>>>> of > > > >>>>>>> living it, or observing someone else living it? One way to get > > > around > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> this > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> would be, as David says, to analyze the film in terms of clues > as > > to > > > >>>>>>> the > > > >>>>>>> stages of emergence. But maybe another way to use the film > would > > be > > > >>>>>>> to > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> view > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> it not so much as a complete, self-sufficient "example" of > > > >>>>>>> perezhivanie, > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> as > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> a *tool *for pivoting back and forth between the concept of > > > >>>>>>> perezhivanie > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> as > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> imaginatively constructed (through fiction), and the concept of > > > >>>>>>> perezhivanie as imaginatively constructed (through our real > > living > > > >>>>>>> experience and observation of it). So, it would be the > *pivoting* > > > >>>>>>> between > > > >>>>>>> these two manifestations of the concept (designed vs. evolved, > as > > > >>>>>>> David > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> put > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> it) that reveals new insights about perezhivanie, rather than > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> understanding > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> the concept from the film per se. > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 3:08 PM, David Kellogg < > > > dkellogg60@gmail.com > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> wrote: > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> I think there's a good reason why Andy started a new thread on > > > this: > > > >>>>>>> he's a > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> very tidy thinker (quite unlike yours truly) and he knows that > > one > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> reason > > > >>>>>>> why xmca threads are seldom cumulative is that they digress to > > > >>>>>>> related > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> problems without solving the immmediate ones. > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> Yes, of course, a film allows us to consider an example of > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> "perezhivanie", > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> but it is a designed perezhivanie rather than an evolved one; > it > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> doesn't > > > >>>>>>> explicitly display the various stages of emergence required > for a > > > >>>>>>> genetic > > > >>>>>>> analysis, unless we analyze it not as a complete and finished > > work > > > of > > > >>>>>>> art > > > >>>>>>> but instead for clues as to the stages of its creation (the way > > > that, > > > >>>>>>> for > > > >>>>>>> example, "Quietly Flows the Don" was analyzed to determine its > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> authenticity). > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> I remember that In the original short story, the schnapps > > drinking > > > >>>>>>>> scene seemed like pure sleight of hand: an artistically > > gratuitous > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> example > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> of what eventually gave Soviet social realism such a bad name. > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> David Kellogg > > > >>>>>>>> Macquarie University > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 10:04 PM, Carol Macdonald < > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> carolmacdon@gmail.com > > > >>>>>>> wrote: > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> Fellow XMCa-ers > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> I have watched it through now, thank you Andy, but right now > > only > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> empirical > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> psychological categories come to mind. I will watch it again > > and > > > in > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> the > > > >>>>>>>> meanwhile let my fellows with more recent experience of > > > >>>>>>>> /perezhivanie/ > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> take > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> the discussion further. > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> It is a kind of timeless story, and modern film techniques > > would > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> perhaps > > > >>>>>>>> be > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> more explicit. At the least I would say it has for me a > Russian > > > >>>>>>>>> understanding of suffering, perhaps because of their unique > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> experience > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> of > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> it. But having said that, WWII must have generated other > similar > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> experiences, apart from the first part about Andrei's family > > > dying > > > >>>>>>>>> in > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> the > > > >>>>>>>> famine. > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> Carol > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> On 14 January 2017 at 02:15, Andy Blunden > > > > >>>>>>>>> wrote: > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> I watched it in two parts with subtitles: > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16w7fg_destiny-of-a-man- > > > >>>>>>>>>> 1959-pt-1_creation > > > >>>>>>>>>> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16wat4_destiny-of-a-man- > > > >>>>>>>>>> 1959-pt-2_creation > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Andy > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ > ------------------------------ > > > >>>>>>>>>> Andy Blunden > > > >>>>>>>>>> http://home.mira.net/~andy > > > >>>>>>>>>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective- > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> decision-making > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> On 14/01/2017 2:35 AM, Beth Ferholt wrote: > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> Thank you for taking us to a shared example. I think that > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> having a > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> -- > > > >>>>>>>>> Carol A Macdonald Ph.D (Edin) > > > >>>>>>>>> Cultural Historical Activity Theory > > > >>>>>>>>> Honorary Research Fellow: Department of Linguistics, Unisa > > > >>>>>>>>> alternative email address: tmacdoca@unisa.ac.za > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Beth Ferholt > > > Assistant Professor > > > Department of Early Childhood and Art Education > > > Brooklyn College, City University of New York > > > 2900 Bedford Avenue > > > Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 > > > > > > Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu > > > Phone: (718) 951-5205 > > > Fax: (718) 951-4816 > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Robert Lake Ed.D. > > Associate Professor > > Social Foundations of Education > > Dept. of Curriculum, Foundations, and Reading > > Georgia Southern University > > P. O. Box 8144, Statesboro, GA 30460 > > Secretary/Treasurer-AERA- Paulo Freire Special Interest Group > > Webpage: https://georgiasouthern.academia.edu/RobertLake*Those who have > > never despaired have neither lived nor loved. Hope is inseparable from > > despair. Those of us who truly hope make despair a constant companion > whom > > we outwrestle every day owing to our commitment to justice, love, and > > hope* ( > > Cornel West, 2008, p. 185). > > > -- Beth Ferholt Assistant Professor Department of Early Childhood and Art Education Brooklyn College, City University of New York 2900 Bedford Avenue Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu Phone: (718) 951-5205 Fax: (718) 951-4816 From ablunden@mira.net Thu Feb 9 20:25:14 2017 From: ablunden@mira.net (Andy Blunden) Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 15:25:14 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fate of a Man In-Reply-To: References: <1484427999407.2877@iped.uio.no> <2270f5e7-7d82-5150-89a3-808a4e20b89b@mira.net> <9B8D2964-0926-4976-91F2-CDD51E50A6F5@gmail.com> <589ce1e1.4613620a.7f22b.4034@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <2e6a5b95-3f0c-a066-e89e-63f87d7be65e@mira.net> The most commonly reported feeling is, I think, "time stood still," Beth. I think it is that fixing of a moment which provides the material for repetition. Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden http://home.mira.net/~andy http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making On 10/02/2017 3:13 PM, Beth Ferholt wrote: > I am not well enough read to respond to these recent posts but was very > interested to talk more about "meta". I have, since I began teaching > preschool, thought that the feeling of a "spiral of consciousness" -- is > that my own term or from someone else? -- what I mean is when you are > stopped in your tracks by a sensation that you are walking above layers of > time in one place, or even that you are floating above your self as your > mind races in every widening spirals ... that this sensation was familiar > because I had felt it often in childhood. I connected it to young > children's love of repetition and ritual. > > I often felt, as a teacher, that the children in my class were walking a > bit above the ground most of the time. They appeared to be touching the > floor or the asphalt but they were not, usually. This became clear in the > misunderstandings between adults and children that make up the life of the > preschool (sort of like the one I mentioned above, between me and Mike, but > so much larger) -- but I also have some earliest memories of seeing things > repeatedly growing and shrinking in a spiral rhythm as I would try to sleep. > > That is my two cents of response : ) : That something of the nested dolls, > or the liar paradox (Hofstadter, 1979 is where I heard that -- > Epidemenides/liar paradox), is essential to perezhivaie ... not just a > repetition. > > Beth > > > > Beth > > On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 5:14 PM, Wolff-Michael Roth < > wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Responding to Robert's invitation, >> >> My book title is not going meta. Instead, it goes to the very hard of >> mathematical praxis. What is it that allows a mathematician to see in the >> moves of another a typical mathematical move rather than the move of >> another. What is it in the doing that makes it mathematical rather >> scientific, commonsense, chemical... And the book is concerned with showing >> the sociogenesis of the mathematics of mathematics, the origin of >> mathematical reasoning AS social relation (more accurately, because of the >> ideality of mathematics, a societal relation---see Il'enkov, the ideal, the >> general [obshee]). >> >> For the remainder of the paragraphs of the unsigned message, I do not >> understand a thing. I thought I understood Heidegger a bit, have read many >> of his works many times. But I do not see how anything in these paragraphs >> arises out of the thinking of Heidegger, or anyone else who took up and >> developed the philosopher's thinking, like Derrida or Nancy . . . >> >> Michael >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> -------------------- >> Wolff-Michael Roth, Lansdowne Professor >> Applied Cognitive Science >> MacLaurin Building A567 >> University of Victoria >> Victoria, BC, V8P 5C2 >> http://web.uvic.ca/~mroth >> >> New book: *The Mathematics of Mathematics >> > directions-in-mathematics-and-science-education/the- >> mathematics-of-mathematics/>* >> >> On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 1:50 PM, Robert Lake >> wrote: >> >>> For meta question I defer to Professor Roth himself. >>> (Included in this email). >>> Robert >>> >>> On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 4:40 PM, wrote: >>> >>>> Beth, Robert, and the others forming a ?(we)?. >>>> >>>> Beth said it is the ?()? within the ?()? that interests her [as being]. >>>> Maybe Framing is ALL communication, ALL thought, ALL consciousness .... >>>> Bateson?.... but Beth thinks we need to tackle framing head on [face >>> into] >>>> when discussing perezhivanie. >>>> >>>> Now I noticed that Wolff-Michael Roth included in the title of his book >>>> the phrase ? mathematics of mathematics - and my mind wondered to >>>> conjecture if this is going ?meta? and if ?()? is also going ?meta?. >>>> >>>> Could Beth?s ?()? as symbolic also have another aspect [or side] that >> is >>>> () = bracket and the doubling ?()? = bracketing the bracket. These >>> moves >>>> as examples of going ?meta? which also plays with saying/not saying or >>>> revealing/concealing that Ed Wall recently posted when he said: >>>> The truth of the proposition, in effect, resides in the possibility of >>>> bringing its referents into the light (here is where aletheia takes a >>>> part); I.e. uncovering. That is, on the LEVEL of ?apophantic as? things >>> are >>>> propositionally either true or false, but on the LEVEL of the >>> ?hermeneutic >>>> as? they are neither. >>>> >>>> However, the ?apophantic as? IS (its being) grounded in interpretation, >>>> I.e. the ?hermeneutic as? (its being). For Heidegger (and this is an >>>> oversimplification) ?hermeneutic truth? IS in effect (in use) >> DISclosure. >>>> ..... complicated because if one surfaces [metaphor of LEVELS] to the >>>> apophantic then, in effect (in use) there is a covering back up >>>> (closure).... Also, and this is most important, the consequent would >> not >>> be >>>> an understanding of Trump?s speech, but an understanding (interpreting) >>> of >>>> how ?(I)? understand (interpret) Trump?s speech. >>>> >>>> I am travelling back and forth exploring saying as () generating >> effects >>>> IN USE, and then doubling back and exploring the () generating effects >> IN >>>> USE through ?()? interpretation of the uses. To go hear would have to >>>> bring in Umberto Eco who pleads for us to make a distinction between >>> ?use? >>>> and ?interpretation? AS aspects of semiosis and semiotic but this is >> for >>>> another turn. >>>> >>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10 >>>> >>>> From: Beth Ferholt >>>> Sent: February 5, 2017 6:38 PM >>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fate of a Man >>>> >>>> Thanks for the calling out to Monica and me, Mike and Andy -- I had to >>> stop >>>> checking XMCA for a couple of weeks so I did not see the discussion or >>> your >>>> notes to me in the chain, until today. One of the the strengths of >> XMCA >>> is >>>> that it creates a conversation that can include people who can not >>> always? >>>> respond that very day, or even week, due to various forms of >>> interruption! >>>> Often these "interruptions" are children or political events, which >> canY >>>> help us to understand perezhivanie. >>>> >>>> As well as spending time at JFK, recently, many of us here in New York >>> have >>>> been attending local protests to keep our neighborhoods feeling safe >> for >>>> everyone. I live in a neighborhood in Brooklyn that includes several >>>> Muslim communities and several Jewish communities (as well as a few >>> Russian >>>> and Polish communities), and at the local protests these past few weeks >>>> some people have had photographs of their family members who were >> killed >>> by >>>> the Nazis attached to the back of their "never again" signs. Also we >> all, >>>> Muslim, Jewish, etc. families, have been often bringing our children >> to >>>> the protests. >>>> >>>> So I have been thinking a lot about children and hope, during the past >>> few >>>> weeks. It is within this frame that I saw this film. I think the film >>> was >>>> expecting us to see the child as only benefitting from the main >>> character's >>>> lying, saying that he was the child's father, and of course the child >> did >>>> benefit, but I think that perezhivanie is about truth, somehow, >> although >>> I >>>> am not sure how. >>>> >>>> My second thought is that Manchester by the Sea must have been >>> referencing >>>> this film, with its return-to-the-space-where-the-house-was scene, and >>>> also >>>> with the choice to replace the lost self (as father) / family or no. I >>>> think it might help this conversation if we all saw both films, >> actually. >>>> Two thoughts on this methods suggestion for our conversation, before I >>>> return to the topic itself. >>>> >>>> 1) It is odd how closely the two films are related, as I did not know >>> that >>>> the two films were related when I told Chris to see Manchester by the >> Sea >>>> in relation to thinking about perezhivanie. I told Chris when I saw >> him >>> in >>>> person, and I think that discussions about perezhivanie are often >>> different >>>> in person. We learned at LCHC in the 2004/5 playworld projects that >>> these >>>> in person discussions about perezhivanie have a pronounced proleptic >>>> structure, mirroring the topic of study, such that the conclusion of >> the >>>> discussion appears at the start: It feels like magic is happening. (I >>>> think this has something to do with how good teachers see the things in >>>> their classroom that are useful or no before they happen or "behind >> their >>>> heads" ... when you are very present you have this "sixth sense," which >>> is >>>> really an experience of time moving in two directions at once ... being >>>> very present can often require a lot of in person time and being with >>>> children speeds up the process.) >>>> >>>> 2) It is a strength that the XMCA conversations can continue through >> all >>> of >>>> our different schedules. It is a negative that they are not in person, >>> and >>>> seeing films together can really help. This is where we went on the >>>> perezhivanie facebook page when it was briefly in English and in >> Russian >>> -- >>>> with a film, and it was very helpful. (Of course I am thinking of this >>>> while considering the changing role and form of LCHC and Mike's >>>> participation in LCHC and XMCA. I am thinking of the mistakes that are >>>> communication. A story about this that I thought of recently, which >>> shows >>>> this point well, and seems worth retelling BECAUSE when studying >>>> perezhivanie the form is often (always??) the study of the content: As >> a >>>> newish graduate student Mike once said "thank you" to me when I made a >>>> comment in the afternoon about an AM conversation that day. Mike's >>> "thank >>>> you" encouraged me to pay extra attention to this comment/thought of >>> mine, >>>> which later became important in our analysis of a difficult-to-decipher >>>> playworld event. I was thinking of this event as I walked and talked >>> with >>>> a doctoral student of my own -- I seem to have a heavily spacial memory >>>> process and my student and I were walking through a doorway -- and I >>>> suddenly realized that Mike could have been thanking me for holding the >>>> door for him at this time in the past when his feedback was so >> important >>> to >>>> me ... maybe he did not hear my comment, but just thanked me for >> holding >>>> the door ... in fact it now appears to me that this was probably the >>> case!) >>>> The interesting thing to me about the above 2 points is the framing. >> It >>> IS >>>> the "()" within the "()" that interests me. Maybe Framing is all >>>> communication or all thought or consciousness ... Bateson? ... but I >>> think >>>> we need to tackle framing head on when discussing perezhivanie. The >> two >>>> films are very different in regards to framing, I think this is why >> they >>>> are most interesting to think about together, but first I have two >>>> citations for thinking about time that I use frequently in my writing >> on >>>> perezhivanie. >>>> >>>> These seem worth repeating here, as this thinking about time in >>> space/time >>>> seems to me to be thinking about framing ... the "()" makes us double >>> back >>>> in time as we read -- : >>>> >>>> (As to Performance, Alfredo copied the Schechner quote above.) >>>> >>>> Dewey's relation of the notion of object to prolepsis (on XMCA): >>>> Mike (2007) used the term ?temporally double sided? to describe this >>>> phenomenon of growing back and towards the future and the past >>>> simultaneously. >>>> >>>> What I am (still) thinking about, now, most often: >>>> It is the juxtaposition of temporal double sidedness with stages that >>>> creates perezhivanie. What Schechner argues is that this juxtaposition >>>> provides the rhythm that allows us to raise ourselves up and hover, >>>> suspended momentarily in a state of being simultaneously ourselves and >>> not >>>> ourselves: our past and future selves (someone else). >>>> >>>> So my first point is about framing and my second is about children. >> The >>>> Fate Of Man is all about the frames / "()". The stories are nested >> within >>>> eachother, repeating themselves, maybe even sort of like a fractal, or >>>> anyhow a spiral? I have some congenital prosopagnosia, getting worse >> as >>> I >>>> age and definitely bad with a film like this. I kept thinking we were >>> back >>>> at the ferry as the form of the conversation and context images >> repeated >>>> themselves, as I could not recognize the face of the character who was >>> the >>>> audience for our hero's story! Manchester by the Sea, on the other >> hand, >>>> had no frames. We just jumped right in and rode it through. I only saw >>>> Manchester once but do others think this is true? relevant? >>>> >>>> I think that the question of children's position in relation to adult >>>> perezhivanie is central in both of these films. The children in both of >>>> these films appear to want the main characters to try again at being >>>> fathers. This is a critique of films about children -- I can not think >>> of >>>> the name of the person who made this critique, but I can find it for >>> anyone >>>> if needed -- : We adults often make films not about children but about >>> our >>>> own childhoods. We make films about children who are no longer with >> us. >>>> But is this really best for the films, as films are usually best when >>> they >>>> are somehow in dialogue with their topic, this is a characteristic of >> the >>>> medium, no? >>>> >>>> If you do not have some pretense, some playing again, you can not have >>>> perezhivanie. But I think that Fate of Man is not about perezhivanie, >>>> although in a different way than Manchester by the Sea is not about >>>> perezhivanie. In Manchester by the Sea there is no other with whom to >>>> perezhivanie because the main character and his former wife still love >>> each >>>> other, or at lease he still loves her and she returns enough of the >> love >>> to >>>> keep him loving her, and neither of them can pull the other up because >>> they >>>> both hit bottom together and in the same story. In Fate of Man there >> is >>> is >>>> no chance for perezhivanie because the other needs to be involved in >> some >>>> honest way, or there is no dialogue. >>>> >>>> In Fate of Man the hero seems to me to be playing out his memory in the >>>> real world. A child is not an other with whom one can ever >> perezhivanie. >>>> This is not perezhivanie as there is no real world as a player, and >> this >>> is >>>> why our hero's heart will fail him. He did not reach bottom and then >>> start >>>> to pull himself up by connecting with another with great bravery. >>> Instead, >>>> as he says himself, he just snapped -- he is now living in a dream. >>>> >>>> As Larry put it, above in this chain: "In other words, navigating >> through >>>> the suffering and existential emptiness is not a hero?s journey." And >>> this >>>> point is relevant, again, to our method for studying perezhivanie. I >>> don't >>>> think we can manage this one on our own (XMCA), even as a group that >>> allows >>>> for conversations over extended time periods. >>>> >>>> If form and content are related in this process, I'd say that we won't >>>> understand this process until we see children as full people. And >>>> simultaneously as children. Children have something to tell us about >>> this >>>> process that no one else can tell us, and they are not going to tell us >>>> this in a way that those of us who are researchers/scholars can listen, >>>> without the bridge of the teacher voices. How to include these voices >> in >>>> our research is key. And the answer has something to do with art, as >>> well >>>> as with time and space. >>>> >>>> I am going to send this as it is long enough already, and then catch up >>>> with the related chains after I do ... And I won't say more now, but I >>>> agree with all the people who thought this was a great pick to start >> the >>>> discussion. Many levels to discuss and I also found many aspects of >> the >>>> film related to perezhivanie in many ways! Beth >>>> >>>> On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 11:51 PM, Andy Blunden >>> wrote: >>>>> How about a documentary movie about the first Trump voter who dies >> as a >>>>> result of repeal of Obama Care? That would be a perezhivanie within a >>>>> perezhivanie! >>>>> >>>>> Andy >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> Andy Blunden >>>>> http://home.mira.net/~andy >>>>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective- >> decision-making >>>>> On 21/01/2017 12:03 PM, Helena Worthen wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I am late to this discussion, but I have been paying attention. I >> was >>>>>> reluctant to expose myself to the emotional challenges of the film. >> I >>>> knew >>>>>> that between the majestic music, the stunning black and white >> images, >>>> the >>>>>> beautiful human faces and bodies (and some very ugly ones), and the >>>> twists >>>>>> of the story, I was going to be deeply moved. However, I have been >>>> reading >>>>>> two books by Svetlana Alexievich -- Voices from Chernobyl and >>> Secondhand >>>>>> Time - which tell equally heartbreaking, horrifying stories of >>>> suffering. >>>>>> Reading her work inclines me to place the film in the context of the >>>> period >>>>>> of deStalinization after Kruschev's 1956 speech to the 20th Congress >>> of >>>> the >>>>>> CPSU, which gave the signal that it was permissible to begin to talk >>>> freely >>>>>> about Soviet history. It was a period of trying to build a story >> that >>>> could >>>>>> explain and honor, if not justify, the extreme suffering of the >> Soviet >>>>>> people. This film seems to me to set out to accomplish that. So does >>>>>> Alexievich's book, which is a compilation of interviews done between >>>> 1991 >>>>>> and 2012, with people who had something to say (good and bad) about >>> the >>>>>> Soviet regime and the experience of its dissolution. She got the >> 2015 >>>> Nobel >>>>>> Prize for this book. And I sense that Andy, or someone, is >>> anticipating >>>>>> that the US is going to have to produce some works of scholarship or >>>> art, >>>>>> or both, that attempt to explain what is happening now here in the >> US >>> -- >>>>>> for example, this afternoon, under President Trump. >>>>>> >>>>>> Helena Worthen >>>>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com >>>>>> Vietnam blog: helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jan 19, 2017, at 4:00 PM, Christopher Schuck wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> For some reason I couldn't see the subtitles showing up in Fate of a >>> Man >>>>>>> the first time, so I started to watch it dubbed in English instead. >>> But >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> mannered Hollywood accents definitely were not exactly helping to >>>> convey >>>>>>> the "real Russian soul" Robbins talks about! It felt like I was >> being >>>>>>> asked >>>>>>> to imagine Cary Grant inhabiting Andrei's perezhivanie-ing body. >> So, >>> I >>>>>>> started over with the subtitled version. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Here are some quick initial reflections: wonderful movie, and in >>> Andrei >>>>>>> one >>>>>>> of the more memorable characters I have seen. But I also found >> myself >>>>>>> thinking how big a difference there is between watching a film on >> my >>>>>>> 12-inch laptop with headphones (my only option at the moment), and >>>>>>> sitting >>>>>>> back and immersing yourself in a darkened theater or at least on a >>>>>>> widescreen TV without any other distractions, allowing ourselves to >>>> "fall >>>>>>> into this space" by virtue of our very awareness of the illusion >>>>>>> generated >>>>>>> by the frame, as Beth and Monica put it. This difference becomes >> even >>>>>>> bigger if the screen you're viewing it on also enables you to >> quickly >>>>>>> check >>>>>>> email from time to time during the movie, as many people do these >>> days. >>>>>>> If >>>>>>> we are to consider the film experience as a model (analogy?) for >>>>>>> perezhivanie or even a certain kind of simulation of it, this >> effect >>>> that >>>>>>> occurs when we lose ourselves in a film would be undermined by an >>>>>>> especially small frame or poor viewing conditions. At what point >> does >>>>>>> "the >>>>>>> knowledge that the movement we experience is just an illusion" (p. >> 2 >>> in >>>>>>> their article) undermine the perezhivanie-like quality of film as >>>> opposed >>>>>>> to forming an integral part of it? And, might the way distraction >>>>>>> functions >>>>>>> to undermine perezhivanie in the context of film in any way mirror >>> how >>>> we >>>>>>> "distract" ourselves in the course of living lives from conscious >>>>>>> engagement with the perezhivanie we are otherwise undergoing? Is >>>> viewing >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> film on a 12-inch screen while checking email and calling it an >>>>>>> "experience" in any way analogous to the self-deceptions and >> escapes >>> we >>>>>>> engage in during the course of either experience-as-struggle or >>>>>>> experience-as-contemplation? I did not check email while watching >>> Fate >>>>>>> of a >>>>>>> Man, by the way. Just in case you're wondering. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As for the film itself: I was struck by the incidental way in which >>> the >>>>>>> earlier loss of his childhood family is introduced and acknowledged >>> at >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> very outset, and how this contrasts with the dramatic ongoing >>>>>>> perezhivanie >>>>>>> that ensues going forward: it is as if this early loss is "taken >> for >>>>>>> granted" as also part of the Russian experience. We are not privy >> to >>>> any >>>>>>> perezhivanie he might have presumably undergone before that point; >> it >>>> is >>>>>>> simply not "within the frame." At several points, I was reminded of >>>>>>> Satyajit's World of Apu (last movie in his trilogy), where there >> was >>>>>>> also a >>>>>>> set of early losses and a relationship formed with a "son." Have >> any >>> of >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> seen it? I think it would also be a good example of perezhivanie. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I would not want to overemphasize the use of literary motifs, since >>>>>>> Bondarchuk was presumably not making any references to the concept >> of >>>>>>> perezhivanie as such. But there were several devices that evoked >> Beth >>>> and >>>>>>> Monica's passage from To The Lighthouse ("Time stand still here"), >>> and >>>>>>> their metaphor of a life (or more specifically, a perezhivanie >>> within a >>>>>>> life) spiraling back over itself to bring two disparate moments >> into >>>>>>> juxtaposition in a way such that "your life becomes >> three-dimensional >>>>>>> again" (p. 2). One occurs in the various scenes when Andrei gazes >> up >>> at >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> sky in reverie and all we see are clouds, or the scene where he >> lies >>> in >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> grass after his first escape and the camera pans back as it becomes >>>> very >>>>>>> quiet, leaving nothing but him swallowed up in the vastness of >>> nature. >>>>>>> There is a certain timeless quality to these scenes, a sense that >> he >>> is >>>>>>> momentarily transcending the linear temporal flow of his life as he >>>>>>> either >>>>>>> stands outside it and "stands still" in it. It could be a thousand >>>> years >>>>>>> passing by in those clouds, or just the 17 years of his second >> phase; >>>> it >>>>>>> suddenly doesn't matter. Another thing I noticed was the use of the >>> two >>>>>>> musical themes: the love song the accordionist plays for him and >>> Irina, >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> the festive music incongruously piped in at the concentration camp >>>> during >>>>>>> that amazing scene around Part 1, minute 45 where the prisoners are >>>> being >>>>>>> marched in and the crematorium is going full blast down the road. >> At >>>> some >>>>>>> point (I couldn't relocate it) Andrei has a flashback where he >>> revisits >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> love song and his memories of Irina; then at minute 20 in Part 2, >>> while >>>>>>> processing his family's death after coming home from the war, he >>> finds >>>>>>> himself hearing the concentration camp song on the record player >> and >>> is >>>>>>> suddenly transported back to that traumatic experience. Yet he does >>> not >>>>>>> smash the record right away; he stares at it for a minute, almost >> as >>> if >>>>>>> he >>>>>>> is resituating these two moments in relation to each other. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Perhaps I am overanalyzing, but I found both these motifs to speak >> to >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> and Monica's examples in the way they bring two moments back into >>>> contact >>>>>>> with each other. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Finally, Mike and Andy's discussion in the Misha thread about the >>>>>>> watching >>>>>>> of a film functioning as perezhivanie for those viewers for whom it >>>>>>> reflects and repeats their own experience, raises a question about >>> the >>>>>>> difference between extended perezhivanie and the personal >>> re-enactment >>>> of >>>>>>> one's perezhivanie within a much smaller time scale (the two or >> three >>>>>>> hours >>>>>>> spent watching the movie). I hope at some point we could delve more >>>> into >>>>>>> this issue of time frame and time scale in various forms of >>>> perezhivanie. >>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 8:39 PM, Andy Blunden >>>> wrote: >>>>>>> Thank you Marc! It was the third "plane" which was my intention in >>>>>>>> providing "Fate of a Man" for discussion. You picked out what were >>> for >>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>> also the main (but by no means the only) instances of >> perezhivanija >>> in >>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>> movie. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It seems to me that Sokolov (the author) offers one perezhivanie >> in >>>>>>>> particular as the main theme of the movie. At the beginning of the >>>>>>>> movie, >>>>>>>> the man and boy walk up the path to the camera and at the end of >> the >>>>>>>> movie >>>>>>>> they walk off together again. So this is the central theme. As you >>>> say, >>>>>>>> when Sokolov's family has all been killed, even his talented >>> war-hero >>>>>>>> son >>>>>>>> who was going to be a famous mathematician, his life has become >>>>>>>> meaningless. I really liked your reflections of Sokolov's >>> reflections >>>>>>>> too. >>>>>>>> He sees the young orphan boy who, he discovers, has no family and >>>>>>>> doesn't >>>>>>>> even know what town he comes from, but is aimlessly living on >> pieces >>>> of >>>>>>>> rubbish. He sees that the two of them are in the same situation. >> So >>>>>>>> after >>>>>>>> some time mulling this over a they sit together in the truck, he >>> lies >>>> to >>>>>>>> the boy and tells him that he is the boy's father, and they >> embrace. >>>> But >>>>>>>> the boy questions this and he reasserts his claim and the boy >>> accepts >>>>>>>> this. >>>>>>>> The man is able to define a new meaning for his life; he has done >>> this >>>>>>>> autonomously without the help of a therapist, but he still needs >>>>>>>> another, >>>>>>>> the boy, to embody that meaning. But he knows it is his own >>> invention. >>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>> boy on the other hand has to be made to believe it is true; he is >>> not >>>>>>>> sufficiently mature to manufacture this meaning himself, but as a >>>> child >>>>>>>> he >>>>>>>> can be guided by an adult. As you say, Marc, it is very >> significant >>>> when >>>>>>>> Sokolov tells us how he is now, again, worried about his own >> death. >>>>>>>> What if >>>>>>>> I died in my sleep? that would be a shock for my son! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> For me, this reflection causes me to look back on the man's whole >>>>>>>> struggle >>>>>>>> during the war: in the first phase he does not differentiate >> between >>>> his >>>>>>>> life as a father and husband and his life as a Soviet citizen - >> war >>> is >>>>>>>> his >>>>>>>> duty and he is confident, as is everyone else, of victory. His >>> bravery >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> driving his truck to the front line under fire reflects the fact >>> that >>>> he >>>>>>>> has never imagined his own death. Then he finds himself prostrate >>>>>>>> before 2 >>>>>>>> Nazi soldiers who we assume are going among the wounded shooting >>>> anyone >>>>>>>> who >>>>>>>> has survived. But surprisingly, he is allowed to live, but is to >> be >>>>>>>> used as >>>>>>>> a slave. Sokolov has been confronted by his own mortality for the >>>> first >>>>>>>> time and he chooses life, but accepts slavery (Sartre and Hegel >> both >>>>>>>> thematize this moment in their philosophy). In this second phase >> of >>>>>>>> Sokolov's life he is a survivor. Everything hinges on surviving >> and >>>>>>>> returning to his wife and family. As you point out, Marc, his >> later >>>>>>>> reflections on this are particularly poignant, when he discovers >> the >>>>>>>> futility of this hope. Eventually, the life of forced labour >> becomes >>>>>>>> unbearable. He cries out: "Why are we forced to dig 3 cubic metres >>>> when >>>>>>>> 1 >>>>>>>> cubic meter is enough for a grave!" Sokolov has accepted and >>> embraced >>>>>>>> death >>>>>>>> after all. (Transition to the third phase.) To his German masters >>> this >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> an unendurable act of defiance. As David points out, there are >> flaws >>>> in >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> scene which follows, but ... he confronts his own death defiantly, >>>>>>>> stares >>>>>>>> it in the eye, spits on it, and his life again gains meaning as a >>>> "brave >>>>>>>> Soviet soldier" unafraid of death even in such an impossible >> moment. >>>> Not >>>>>>>> only does he survive, but takes the Nazi Colonel prisoner and >> hands >>>> the >>>>>>>> war >>>>>>>> plans over to the Red Army. Now, when he is offered the chance to >>>>>>>> return to >>>>>>>> his wife as a war hero he declines and asks to be sent back to the >>>>>>>> front. >>>>>>>> His life has adopted this new meaning which casts his life as a >>> father >>>>>>>> into >>>>>>>> the shade. He no longer fears death. But he is persuaded to take >>> time >>>>>>>> off >>>>>>>> and learns of the death of his family. As Marc relates, the >>> continued >>>>>>>> survival of his son, who is now also a war hero, provides >> continued >>>>>>>> meaning >>>>>>>> and integrates the two themes in his life. This takes work, as >> Marc >>>>>>>> points >>>>>>>> out, and he has the assistance of an older man, in achieving this >>>>>>>> redefinition of his life. But tragically, with the death of his >> son >>>>>>>> (and NB >>>>>>>> the end of the war, albeit in victory) his life is again without >>>>>>>> meaning. >>>>>>>> Fourth phase. He has survived, but has no purpose. By becoming a >>>> father >>>>>>>> again (Fifth phase), he regains the fear of death and meaning in >> his >>>>>>>> life. >>>>>>>> It is real work, and we witness this psychological turmoil as he >>> copes >>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>> the idea that this scruffy orphan boy could be a son to him, and >>>>>>>> eventually >>>>>>>> he manages it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The transition between each phase is a critical period during >> which >>>>>>>> Sokolov's personality is transformed. Note also, that there is a >>>>>>>> premonition of this perezhivanie in Sokolov's earlier life: his >>> family >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> wiped out in the Civil War and the famine of 1922, then he meets >> his >>>>>>>> wife-to-be, also raised in an orphanage, and they together create >> a >>>> life >>>>>>>> and have 17 happy years before the Nazi invasion intrudes. So from >>> the >>>>>>>> beginning of the movie we are introduced to the main theme. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> These are the main moments in the movie, which caused me to select >>> it >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> discussion rather than any other movie. Also, there is no doubt >> that >>>> in >>>>>>>> producing this movie in 1958 the Soviet government was engaged >> with >>>> its >>>>>>>> people, in a process of collective perezhivanie and by reflecting >> on >>>> the >>>>>>>> collective perezhivanie during the period of the war, before and >>>> after, >>>>>>>> they aim to assist the people in collectively assigning meaning to >>>> this >>>>>>>> terrible suffering and like the man and his "son" walking again >> into >>>> the >>>>>>>> future. As a propaganda movie, of course, it is open to much >>>> criticism, >>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>> that is hardly the point. I appreciate Marc's analysis in terms of >>> the >>>>>>>> other concepts he has introduced. I wouldn't mind a recap on >> these. >>> In >>>>>>>> terms of Vasilyuk's concepts, Sokolov's life-world is *simple and >>>>>>>> difficult*. The boy's life world is *simple and easy*. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Can we continue to discuss "Fate of a Man", while I open another >>> movie >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> analysis? I think there are at least 10 subscribers to this list >> who >>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>> published in learned journals on the topic of perezhivanie in >>>> childhood. >>>>>>>> Perhaps one of you would like to reflect on the boy's >> perezhivanija? >>>>>>>> Andy >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>>>> Andy Blunden >>>>>>>> http://home.mira.net/~andy >>>>>>>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective- >>> decision-making >>>>>>>> On 18/01/2017 5:14 AM, Marc Clar? wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi, all, >>>>>>>>> and thank you, Andy, for sharing this amazing film, which I >> didn't >>>>>>>>> know. I >>>>>>>>> think it will be very useful to share and discuss our respective >>>> views >>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>> perezhivanie. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> In my view, the film could be analyzed in terms of perezhivanie >> in >>>>>>>>> three >>>>>>>>> different planes. First, we could consider the person who watches >>> the >>>>>>>>> film, >>>>>>>>> and we could study how the meaning she forms for the film >>>> restructures >>>>>>>>> her >>>>>>>>> relationship with aspects of her real life -such as, for example, >>> her >>>>>>>>> own >>>>>>>>> death or the death of a beloved one, etc. (perhaps this is a >> little >>>> bit >>>>>>>>> like what Beth and Monica, or Veresov and Fleer, do with their >>> study >>>> of >>>>>>>>> playworlds?). In this plane, which would be perhaps the most >>>>>>>>> naturalistic >>>>>>>>> one, the film could be studied as an human-made cultural artifact >>>> which >>>>>>>>> restuctures psychological functions; here, the meaning formed for >>> the >>>>>>>>> film >>>>>>>>> by who watches it and uses it as mediator in her relation to her >>> real >>>>>>>>> life >>>>>>>>> would be an m-perezhivanie. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> In a second plane, we could proceed as if the film was real life, >>> and >>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>> could consider Sokolov telling his story to the man he meets by >> the >>>>>>>>> river >>>>>>>>> (a little bit like Carla telling her story to me). In this plane, >>>>>>>>> Sokolov's >>>>>>>>> narrative (i.e., what is showed to us as narrated flashback) >> could >>> be >>>>>>>>> considered as a cultural artifact that Sokolov uses to relate to >>> all >>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>> happened to him. At this plane, the meaning of this narrative >> would >>>> be >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> m-perezhivanie that, in that moment, mediates the relationship >>>> between >>>>>>>>> Sokolov and the war events he experienced years ago (but these >>> events >>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>> still very present to him, so although relating to past events, >>> there >>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> here a Sokolov's activity [towards the past war events] which is >> in >>>>>>>>> present >>>>>>>>> -this echoes Christopher when, within our conversations, said: >>> ?Part >>>> of >>>>>>>>> this might also be a question of what it means to describe and >>>>>>>>> represent >>>>>>>>> one's own perezhivanie figuratively/narratively (whether to >> others, >>>> or >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> oneself), as opposed to living that perezhivanie. Especially if >> the >>>>>>>>> attempt >>>>>>>>> to capture/represent one's own perezhivanie is, perhaps, also >>> central >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> the living of it?? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> In a third plane, we could proceed as if Sokolov's narration was >>> not >>>> a >>>>>>>>> retrospective narration, but the on-time sequence of events with >>>>>>>>> on-time >>>>>>>>> Sokolov's explanation of these events (in the moments in which >> the >>>>>>>>> narrator >>>>>>>>> voice is assumed within the flashback). In this plane, there are >>>>>>>>> several >>>>>>>>> interesting perezhivanie phenomena. Clearly, there is a Sokolov's >>>>>>>>> activity >>>>>>>>> of experiencing-as-struggle, which initiates when he realizes >> that >>>> all >>>>>>>>> his >>>>>>>>> family, except one son, had been killed 2 years ago. At this >>> moment, >>>>>>>>> his >>>>>>>>> life becomes meaningless; the meaning (m-perezhivanie) he uses to >>>>>>>>> relate >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> all his life (including the past) at this moment is expressed in >>> his >>>>>>>>> conversation with his oncle: ?it's got to be that this life of >> mine >>>> is >>>>>>>>> nothing but a nightmare!?. In this moment, Sokolov's past in the >>>>>>>>> prision >>>>>>>>> camp becomes also meaningless: then, his link to life (the >>>>>>>>> m-perezhivanie >>>>>>>>> that made being alive meaningful to him) was meeting his family; >>> but >>>> at >>>>>>>>> that time his family was already dead, so when he discovers it, >> he >>>>>>>>> realizes >>>>>>>>> that this m-perezhivanie (the idea of meeting his family) was >>> linking >>>>>>>>> him >>>>>>>>> to death, not to life, so all his efforts to surviving become >>>>>>>>> meaningless: >>>>>>>>> ?Every night, when I was a prisioner, I talked with them. Now it >>>> turns >>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>> that for two years I was talking with the dead??. In this >>>> conversation, >>>>>>>>> however, his oncle offers him an alternative m-perezhivanie to >>> relate >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> his life: he still has a son, so the m-perehivanie of meeting his >>>>>>>>> family >>>>>>>>> can still turns Sokolov's life meaningful: ?you've got to go on >>>> living. >>>>>>>>> You >>>>>>>>> have to find Anatoly. When the war is over, your son will get >>>> married, >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> will live with them. You will take up your carpentry again, play >>> with >>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>> grandkids?. It takes some time to Sokolov to enter into this >>>>>>>>> m-perezhivanie, but he does it and his life becomes meaningful >>> again: >>>>>>>>> ?and >>>>>>>>> then, unexpectedly, I've got a gleam of sunlight?. But, then, >>> Anatoly >>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>> dies. How to keep living? Here, Sokolov holds the m-perezhivanie >>> that >>>>>>>>> linked him to life until that moment, and therefore, he needs a >>> son; >>>>>>>>> pretending being the father of Vanya turns his life meaningful >>> again. >>>>>>>>> Another interesting thing, still at that level, is how Sokolov's >>>>>>>>> relation >>>>>>>>> with his own immediate death changes along the different >> occasions >>> in >>>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>> he faces it. I thing here there are examples of >>>>>>>>> experiencing-as-contemplation -in my view, this is not >>>>>>>>> experiencing-as-struggle because the situation of impossibility >>> (the >>>>>>>>> immediate death) is removed existentially (Sokolov's life is >> given >>>>>>>>> back to >>>>>>>>> him), so that there is not a permanent situation of impossibility >>>>>>>>> which is >>>>>>>>> initially meaningless and is turned into meaningful. In each >>> occasion >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> which Sokolov is faced with his immediate death, the >> m-perezhivanie >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> mediates this relationship is different. When he is captured, his >>>>>>>>> m-perezhivanie is expressed as: ?here's my death coming after >> me?. >>>>>>>>> When he >>>>>>>>> is conducted to meet the nazi official, the m-perezhivanie is >>>> expressed >>>>>>>>> as: >>>>>>>>> ?the end of your misery?, ?to my death and my release of this >>>> torment, >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> will drink?. In the first, the death is running after Sokolov; in >>> the >>>>>>>>> second, it is Sokolov happily going to meet death. Later, at the >>> end >>>> of >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> film, he faces his immediate death again, and the m-perezhivanie >> is >>>>>>>>> expressed as: ?I'm really worried that I might die in my sleep, >> and >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> would frighten my little son?. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Well, just some thoughts after watching this wonderful film. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Marc. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 2017-01-15 0:06 GMT+01:00 Christopher Schuck < >>>> schuckcschuck@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> : >>>>>>>>> Yes, definitely that article! And specifically, when I used >>>> "pivoting" >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> couldn't help but think of Beth's earlier example about how a >>> child >>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>> use a stick as a pivot for a horse. Perhaps a somewhat different >>>>>>>>>> application but related, no? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 4:06 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < >>>>>>>>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Chris, all, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> your post is totally relevant to Beth's and Monica's article in >>> the >>>>>>>>>>> special issue. They write about film and perezhivanie (quoting >>>>>>>>>>> Sobchack) >>>>>>>>>>> the following: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The reason that film allows us to glimpse the future is that >>> there >>>>>>>>>>> is a >>>>>>>>>>> connection between filmic time and ?real? time: ?The images of >> a >>>> film >>>>>>>>>>> exist >>>>>>>>>> in the world as a temporal flow, within finitude and situation. >>>>>>>>>>> Indeed, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> fascination of the film is that it does not transcend our >>>>>>>>>>> lived-experience >>>>>>>>>> of temporality, but rather that it seems to partake of it, to >>> share >>>>>>>>>>> it? >>>>>>>>>>> (1992, p. 60). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> And later >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> "Specifically, the way that the flow of time becomes >>>>>>>>>>> multidirectional is >>>>>>>>>>> that ?rehearsals make it necessary to think of the future in >>> such a >>>>>>>>>>> way >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>> to create a past? (1985, p. 39). As Schechner ex-plains: ?In a >>> very >>>>>>>>>>> real >>>>>>>>>>> way the future ? the project coming into existence through the >>>>>>>>>>> process >>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> rehearsal ? determines the past: what will be kept from earlier >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> rehearsals >>>>>>>>>> or from the ?source ma-terials? (1985, p. 39)." >>>>>>>>>>> Alfredo >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>> >>>>>>>>>> du> >>>>>>>>>>> on behalf of Christopher Schuck >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: 14 January 2017 21:43 >>>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fate of a Man >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> But that's both the limitation and strength of art or fictional >>>>>>>>>>> narrative >>>>>>>>>>> as opposed to real life, isn't it? That art focuses our >> attention >>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> highlights certain features in a way that is idealized and >>>>>>>>>>> artificially >>>>>>>>>>> "designed" to convey something more clearly and purely (but >> less >>>>>>>>>>> organically and authentically) than it would be conveyed in the >>>>>>>>>>> course >>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> living it, or observing someone else living it? One way to get >>>> around >>>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>> would be, as David says, to analyze the film in terms of clues >> as >>> to >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> stages of emergence. But maybe another way to use the film >> would >>> be >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> view >>>>>>>>>> it not so much as a complete, self-sufficient "example" of >>>>>>>>>>> perezhivanie, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>> a *tool *for pivoting back and forth between the concept of >>>>>>>>>>> perezhivanie >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>> imaginatively constructed (through fiction), and the concept of >>>>>>>>>>> perezhivanie as imaginatively constructed (through our real >>> living >>>>>>>>>>> experience and observation of it). So, it would be the >> *pivoting* >>>>>>>>>>> between >>>>>>>>>>> these two manifestations of the concept (designed vs. evolved, >> as >>>>>>>>>>> David >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> put >>>>>>>>>> it) that reveals new insights about perezhivanie, rather than >>>>>>>>>>> understanding >>>>>>>>>> the concept from the film per se. >>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 3:08 PM, David Kellogg < >>>> dkellogg60@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I think there's a good reason why Andy started a new thread on >>>> this: >>>>>>>>>>> he's a >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> very tidy thinker (quite unlike yours truly) and he knows that >>> one >>>>>>>>>>>> reason >>>>>>>>>>> why xmca threads are seldom cumulative is that they digress to >>>>>>>>>>> related >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> problems without solving the immmediate ones. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, of course, a film allows us to consider an example of >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> "perezhivanie", >>>>>>>>>>> but it is a designed perezhivanie rather than an evolved one; >> it >>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't >>>>>>>>>>> explicitly display the various stages of emergence required >> for a >>>>>>>>>>> genetic >>>>>>>>>>> analysis, unless we analyze it not as a complete and finished >>> work >>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> art >>>>>>>>>>> but instead for clues as to the stages of its creation (the way >>>> that, >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> example, "Quietly Flows the Don" was analyzed to determine its >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> authenticity). >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I remember that In the original short story, the schnapps >>> drinking >>>>>>>>>>>> scene seemed like pure sleight of hand: an artistically >>> gratuitous >>>>>>>>>>>> example >>>>>>>>>>> of what eventually gave Soviet social realism such a bad name. >>>>>>>>>>>> David Kellogg >>>>>>>>>>>> Macquarie University >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 10:04 PM, Carol Macdonald < >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> carolmacdon@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Fellow XMCa-ers >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I have watched it through now, thank you Andy, but right now >>> only >>>>>>>>>>>>> empirical >>>>>>>>>>>> psychological categories come to mind. I will watch it again >>> and >>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> meanwhile let my fellows with more recent experience of >>>>>>>>>>>> /perezhivanie/ >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> take >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> the discussion further. >>>>>>>>>>>>> It is a kind of timeless story, and modern film techniques >>> would >>>>>>>>>>>>> perhaps >>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> more explicit. At the least I would say it has for me a >> Russian >>>>>>>>>>>>> understanding of suffering, perhaps because of their unique >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> experience >>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> it. But having said that, WWII must have generated other >> similar >>>>>>>>>>>>> experiences, apart from the first part about Andrei's family >>>> dying >>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> famine. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Carol >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 14 January 2017 at 02:15, Andy Blunden >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I watched it in two parts with subtitles: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16w7fg_destiny-of-a-man- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1959-pt-1_creation >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16wat4_destiny-of-a-man- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1959-pt-2_creation >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Andy >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ >> ------------------------------ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Andy Blunden >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://home.mira.net/~andy >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> decision-making >>>>>>>>>>>> On 14/01/2017 2:35 AM, Beth Ferholt wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for taking us to a shared example. I think that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> having a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> Carol A Macdonald Ph.D (Edin) >>>>>>>>>>>>> Cultural Historical Activity Theory >>>>>>>>>>>>> Honorary Research Fellow: Department of Linguistics, Unisa >>>>>>>>>>>>> alternative email address: tmacdoca@unisa.ac.za >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Beth Ferholt >>>> Assistant Professor >>>> Department of Early Childhood and Art Education >>>> Brooklyn College, City University of New York >>>> 2900 Bedford Avenue >>>> Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 >>>> >>>> Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu >>>> Phone: (718) 951-5205 >>>> Fax: (718) 951-4816 >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Robert Lake Ed.D. >>> Associate Professor >>> Social Foundations of Education >>> Dept. of Curriculum, Foundations, and Reading >>> Georgia Southern University >>> P. O. Box 8144, Statesboro, GA 30460 >>> Secretary/Treasurer-AERA- Paulo Freire Special Interest Group >>> Webpage: https://georgiasouthern.academia.edu/RobertLake*Those who have >>> never despaired have neither lived nor loved. Hope is inseparable from >>> despair. Those of us who truly hope make despair a constant companion >> whom >>> we outwrestle every day owing to our commitment to justice, love, and >>> hope* ( >>> Cornel West, 2008, p. 185). >>> > > From helenaworthen@gmail.com Thu Feb 9 20:26:24 2017 From: helenaworthen@gmail.com (Helena Worthen) Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2017 20:26:24 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fate of a Man In-Reply-To: References: <048522a2-cca0-3e56-cae2-f2142b9fbd5a@mira.net> <1484427999407.2877@iped.uio.no> <2270f5e7-7d82-5150-89a3-808a4e20b89b@mira.net> <9B8D2964-0926-4976-91F2-CDD51E50A6F5@gmail.com> <589ce1e1.4613620a.7f22b.4034@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Beautiful, suggestive images!! Thanks -- H Helena Worthen helenaworthen@gmail.com Vietnam blog: helenaworthen.wordpress.com On Feb 9, 2017, at 8:13 PM, Beth Ferholt wrote: > I am not well enough read to respond to these recent posts but was very > interested to talk more about "meta". I have, since I began teaching > preschool, thought that the feeling of a "spiral of consciousness" -- is > that my own term or from someone else? -- what I mean is when you are > stopped in your tracks by a sensation that you are walking above layers of > time in one place, or even that you are floating above your self as your > mind races in every widening spirals ... that this sensation was familiar > because I had felt it often in childhood. I connected it to young > children's love of repetition and ritual. > > I often felt, as a teacher, that the children in my class were walking a > bit above the ground most of the time. They appeared to be touching the > floor or the asphalt but they were not, usually. This became clear in the > misunderstandings between adults and children that make up the life of the > preschool (sort of like the one I mentioned above, between me and Mike, but > so much larger) -- but I also have some earliest memories of seeing things > repeatedly growing and shrinking in a spiral rhythm as I would try to sleep. > > That is my two cents of response : ) : That something of the nested dolls, > or the liar paradox (Hofstadter, 1979 is where I heard that -- > Epidemenides/liar paradox), is essential to perezhivaie ... not just a > repetition. > > Beth > > > > Beth > > On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 5:14 PM, Wolff-Michael Roth < > wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Responding to Robert's invitation, >> >> My book title is not going meta. Instead, it goes to the very hard of >> mathematical praxis. What is it that allows a mathematician to see in the >> moves of another a typical mathematical move rather than the move of >> another. What is it in the doing that makes it mathematical rather >> scientific, commonsense, chemical... And the book is concerned with showing >> the sociogenesis of the mathematics of mathematics, the origin of >> mathematical reasoning AS social relation (more accurately, because of the >> ideality of mathematics, a societal relation---see Il'enkov, the ideal, the >> general [obshee]). >> >> For the remainder of the paragraphs of the unsigned message, I do not >> understand a thing. I thought I understood Heidegger a bit, have read many >> of his works many times. But I do not see how anything in these paragraphs >> arises out of the thinking of Heidegger, or anyone else who took up and >> developed the philosopher's thinking, like Derrida or Nancy . . . >> >> Michael >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> -------------------- >> Wolff-Michael Roth, Lansdowne Professor >> Applied Cognitive Science >> MacLaurin Building A567 >> University of Victoria >> Victoria, BC, V8P 5C2 >> http://web.uvic.ca/~mroth >> >> New book: *The Mathematics of Mathematics >> > directions-in-mathematics-and-science-education/the- >> mathematics-of-mathematics/>* >> >> On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 1:50 PM, Robert Lake >> wrote: >> >>> For meta question I defer to Professor Roth himself. >>> (Included in this email). >>> Robert >>> >>> On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 4:40 PM, wrote: >>> >>>> Beth, Robert, and the others forming a ?(we)?. >>>> >>>> Beth said it is the ?()? within the ?()? that interests her [as being]. >>>> Maybe Framing is ALL communication, ALL thought, ALL consciousness .... >>>> Bateson?.... but Beth thinks we need to tackle framing head on [face >>> into] >>>> when discussing perezhivanie. >>>> >>>> Now I noticed that Wolff-Michael Roth included in the title of his book >>>> the phrase ? mathematics of mathematics - and my mind wondered to >>>> conjecture if this is going ?meta? and if ?()? is also going ?meta?. >>>> >>>> Could Beth?s ?()? as symbolic also have another aspect [or side] that >> is >>>> () = bracket and the doubling ?()? = bracketing the bracket. These >>> moves >>>> as examples of going ?meta? which also plays with saying/not saying or >>>> revealing/concealing that Ed Wall recently posted when he said: >>>> The truth of the proposition, in effect, resides in the possibility of >>>> bringing its referents into the light (here is where aletheia takes a >>>> part); I.e. uncovering. That is, on the LEVEL of ?apophantic as? things >>> are >>>> propositionally either true or false, but on the LEVEL of the >>> ?hermeneutic >>>> as? they are neither. >>>> >>>> However, the ?apophantic as? IS (its being) grounded in interpretation, >>>> I.e. the ?hermeneutic as? (its being). For Heidegger (and this is an >>>> oversimplification) ?hermeneutic truth? IS in effect (in use) >> DISclosure. >>>> ..... complicated because if one surfaces [metaphor of LEVELS] to the >>>> apophantic then, in effect (in use) there is a covering back up >>>> (closure).... Also, and this is most important, the consequent would >> not >>> be >>>> an understanding of Trump?s speech, but an understanding (interpreting) >>> of >>>> how ?(I)? understand (interpret) Trump?s speech. >>>> >>>> I am travelling back and forth exploring saying as () generating >> effects >>>> IN USE, and then doubling back and exploring the () generating effects >> IN >>>> USE through ?()? interpretation of the uses. To go hear would have to >>>> bring in Umberto Eco who pleads for us to make a distinction between >>> ?use? >>>> and ?interpretation? AS aspects of semiosis and semiotic but this is >> for >>>> another turn. >>>> >>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10 >>>> >>>> From: Beth Ferholt >>>> Sent: February 5, 2017 6:38 PM >>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fate of a Man >>>> >>>> Thanks for the calling out to Monica and me, Mike and Andy -- I had to >>> stop >>>> checking XMCA for a couple of weeks so I did not see the discussion or >>> your >>>> notes to me in the chain, until today. One of the the strengths of >> XMCA >>> is >>>> that it creates a conversation that can include people who can not >>> always? >>>> respond that very day, or even week, due to various forms of >>> interruption! >>>> Often these "interruptions" are children or political events, which >> canY >>>> help us to understand perezhivanie. >>>> >>>> As well as spending time at JFK, recently, many of us here in New York >>> have >>>> been attending local protests to keep our neighborhoods feeling safe >> for >>>> everyone. I live in a neighborhood in Brooklyn that includes several >>>> Muslim communities and several Jewish communities (as well as a few >>> Russian >>>> and Polish communities), and at the local protests these past few weeks >>>> some people have had photographs of their family members who were >> killed >>> by >>>> the Nazis attached to the back of their "never again" signs. Also we >> all, >>>> Muslim, Jewish, etc. families, have been often bringing our children >> to >>>> the protests. >>>> >>>> So I have been thinking a lot about children and hope, during the past >>> few >>>> weeks. It is within this frame that I saw this film. I think the film >>> was >>>> expecting us to see the child as only benefitting from the main >>> character's >>>> lying, saying that he was the child's father, and of course the child >> did >>>> benefit, but I think that perezhivanie is about truth, somehow, >> although >>> I >>>> am not sure how. >>>> >>>> My second thought is that Manchester by the Sea must have been >>> referencing >>>> this film, with its return-to-the-space-where-the-house-was scene, and >>>> also >>>> with the choice to replace the lost self (as father) / family or no. I >>>> think it might help this conversation if we all saw both films, >> actually. >>>> Two thoughts on this methods suggestion for our conversation, before I >>>> return to the topic itself. >>>> >>>> 1) It is odd how closely the two films are related, as I did not know >>> that >>>> the two films were related when I told Chris to see Manchester by the >> Sea >>>> in relation to thinking about perezhivanie. I told Chris when I saw >> him >>> in >>>> person, and I think that discussions about perezhivanie are often >>> different >>>> in person. We learned at LCHC in the 2004/5 playworld projects that >>> these >>>> in person discussions about perezhivanie have a pronounced proleptic >>>> structure, mirroring the topic of study, such that the conclusion of >> the >>>> discussion appears at the start: It feels like magic is happening. (I >>>> think this has something to do with how good teachers see the things in >>>> their classroom that are useful or no before they happen or "behind >> their >>>> heads" ... when you are very present you have this "sixth sense," which >>> is >>>> really an experience of time moving in two directions at once ... being >>>> very present can often require a lot of in person time and being with >>>> children speeds up the process.) >>>> >>>> 2) It is a strength that the XMCA conversations can continue through >> all >>> of >>>> our different schedules. It is a negative that they are not in person, >>> and >>>> seeing films together can really help. This is where we went on the >>>> perezhivanie facebook page when it was briefly in English and in >> Russian >>> -- >>>> with a film, and it was very helpful. (Of course I am thinking of this >>>> while considering the changing role and form of LCHC and Mike's >>>> participation in LCHC and XMCA. I am thinking of the mistakes that are >>>> communication. A story about this that I thought of recently, which >>> shows >>>> this point well, and seems worth retelling BECAUSE when studying >>>> perezhivanie the form is often (always??) the study of the content: As >> a >>>> newish graduate student Mike once said "thank you" to me when I made a >>>> comment in the afternoon about an AM conversation that day. Mike's >>> "thank >>>> you" encouraged me to pay extra attention to this comment/thought of >>> mine, >>>> which later became important in our analysis of a difficult-to-decipher >>>> playworld event. I was thinking of this event as I walked and talked >>> with >>>> a doctoral student of my own -- I seem to have a heavily spacial memory >>>> process and my student and I were walking through a doorway -- and I >>>> suddenly realized that Mike could have been thanking me for holding the >>>> door for him at this time in the past when his feedback was so >> important >>> to >>>> me ... maybe he did not hear my comment, but just thanked me for >> holding >>>> the door ... in fact it now appears to me that this was probably the >>> case!) >>>> >>>> The interesting thing to me about the above 2 points is the framing. >> It >>> IS >>>> the "()" within the "()" that interests me. Maybe Framing is all >>>> communication or all thought or consciousness ... Bateson? ... but I >>> think >>>> we need to tackle framing head on when discussing perezhivanie. The >> two >>>> films are very different in regards to framing, I think this is why >> they >>>> are most interesting to think about together, but first I have two >>>> citations for thinking about time that I use frequently in my writing >> on >>>> perezhivanie. >>>> >>>> These seem worth repeating here, as this thinking about time in >>> space/time >>>> seems to me to be thinking about framing ... the "()" makes us double >>> back >>>> in time as we read -- : >>>> >>>> (As to Performance, Alfredo copied the Schechner quote above.) >>>> >>>> Dewey's relation of the notion of object to prolepsis (on XMCA): >>>> Mike (2007) used the term ?temporally double sided? to describe this >>>> phenomenon of growing back and towards the future and the past >>>> simultaneously. >>>> >>>> What I am (still) thinking about, now, most often: >>>> It is the juxtaposition of temporal double sidedness with stages that >>>> creates perezhivanie. What Schechner argues is that this juxtaposition >>>> provides the rhythm that allows us to raise ourselves up and hover, >>>> suspended momentarily in a state of being simultaneously ourselves and >>> not >>>> ourselves: our past and future selves (someone else). >>>> >>>> So my first point is about framing and my second is about children. >> The >>>> Fate Of Man is all about the frames / "()". The stories are nested >> within >>>> eachother, repeating themselves, maybe even sort of like a fractal, or >>>> anyhow a spiral? I have some congenital prosopagnosia, getting worse >> as >>> I >>>> age and definitely bad with a film like this. I kept thinking we were >>> back >>>> at the ferry as the form of the conversation and context images >> repeated >>>> themselves, as I could not recognize the face of the character who was >>> the >>>> audience for our hero's story! Manchester by the Sea, on the other >> hand, >>>> had no frames. We just jumped right in and rode it through. I only saw >>>> Manchester once but do others think this is true? relevant? >>>> >>>> I think that the question of children's position in relation to adult >>>> perezhivanie is central in both of these films. The children in both of >>>> these films appear to want the main characters to try again at being >>>> fathers. This is a critique of films about children -- I can not think >>> of >>>> the name of the person who made this critique, but I can find it for >>> anyone >>>> if needed -- : We adults often make films not about children but about >>> our >>>> own childhoods. We make films about children who are no longer with >> us. >>>> But is this really best for the films, as films are usually best when >>> they >>>> are somehow in dialogue with their topic, this is a characteristic of >> the >>>> medium, no? >>>> >>>> If you do not have some pretense, some playing again, you can not have >>>> perezhivanie. But I think that Fate of Man is not about perezhivanie, >>>> although in a different way than Manchester by the Sea is not about >>>> perezhivanie. In Manchester by the Sea there is no other with whom to >>>> perezhivanie because the main character and his former wife still love >>> each >>>> other, or at lease he still loves her and she returns enough of the >> love >>> to >>>> keep him loving her, and neither of them can pull the other up because >>> they >>>> both hit bottom together and in the same story. In Fate of Man there >> is >>> is >>>> no chance for perezhivanie because the other needs to be involved in >> some >>>> honest way, or there is no dialogue. >>>> >>>> In Fate of Man the hero seems to me to be playing out his memory in the >>>> real world. A child is not an other with whom one can ever >> perezhivanie. >>>> This is not perezhivanie as there is no real world as a player, and >> this >>> is >>>> why our hero's heart will fail him. He did not reach bottom and then >>> start >>>> to pull himself up by connecting with another with great bravery. >>> Instead, >>>> as he says himself, he just snapped -- he is now living in a dream. >>>> >>>> As Larry put it, above in this chain: "In other words, navigating >> through >>>> the suffering and existential emptiness is not a hero?s journey." And >>> this >>>> point is relevant, again, to our method for studying perezhivanie. I >>> don't >>>> think we can manage this one on our own (XMCA), even as a group that >>> allows >>>> for conversations over extended time periods. >>>> >>>> If form and content are related in this process, I'd say that we won't >>>> understand this process until we see children as full people. And >>>> simultaneously as children. Children have something to tell us about >>> this >>>> process that no one else can tell us, and they are not going to tell us >>>> this in a way that those of us who are researchers/scholars can listen, >>>> without the bridge of the teacher voices. How to include these voices >> in >>>> our research is key. And the answer has something to do with art, as >>> well >>>> as with time and space. >>>> >>>> I am going to send this as it is long enough already, and then catch up >>>> with the related chains after I do ... And I won't say more now, but I >>>> agree with all the people who thought this was a great pick to start >> the >>>> discussion. Many levels to discuss and I also found many aspects of >> the >>>> film related to perezhivanie in many ways! Beth >>>> >>>> On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 11:51 PM, Andy Blunden >>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> How about a documentary movie about the first Trump voter who dies >> as a >>>>> result of repeal of Obama Care? That would be a perezhivanie within a >>>>> perezhivanie! >>>>> >>>>> Andy >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> Andy Blunden >>>>> http://home.mira.net/~andy >>>>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective- >> decision-making >>>>> On 21/01/2017 12:03 PM, Helena Worthen wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I am late to this discussion, but I have been paying attention. I >> was >>>>>> reluctant to expose myself to the emotional challenges of the film. >> I >>>> knew >>>>>> that between the majestic music, the stunning black and white >> images, >>>> the >>>>>> beautiful human faces and bodies (and some very ugly ones), and the >>>> twists >>>>>> of the story, I was going to be deeply moved. However, I have been >>>> reading >>>>>> two books by Svetlana Alexievich -- Voices from Chernobyl and >>> Secondhand >>>>>> Time - which tell equally heartbreaking, horrifying stories of >>>> suffering. >>>>>> Reading her work inclines me to place the film in the context of the >>>> period >>>>>> of deStalinization after Kruschev's 1956 speech to the 20th Congress >>> of >>>> the >>>>>> CPSU, which gave the signal that it was permissible to begin to talk >>>> freely >>>>>> about Soviet history. It was a period of trying to build a story >> that >>>> could >>>>>> explain and honor, if not justify, the extreme suffering of the >> Soviet >>>>>> people. This film seems to me to set out to accomplish that. So does >>>>>> Alexievich's book, which is a compilation of interviews done between >>>> 1991 >>>>>> and 2012, with people who had something to say (good and bad) about >>> the >>>>>> Soviet regime and the experience of its dissolution. She got the >> 2015 >>>> Nobel >>>>>> Prize for this book. And I sense that Andy, or someone, is >>> anticipating >>>>>> that the US is going to have to produce some works of scholarship or >>>> art, >>>>>> or both, that attempt to explain what is happening now here in the >> US >>> -- >>>>>> for example, this afternoon, under President Trump. >>>>>> >>>>>> Helena Worthen >>>>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com >>>>>> Vietnam blog: helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jan 19, 2017, at 4:00 PM, Christopher Schuck wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> For some reason I couldn't see the subtitles showing up in Fate of a >>> Man >>>>>>> the first time, so I started to watch it dubbed in English instead. >>> But >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> mannered Hollywood accents definitely were not exactly helping to >>>> convey >>>>>>> the "real Russian soul" Robbins talks about! It felt like I was >> being >>>>>>> asked >>>>>>> to imagine Cary Grant inhabiting Andrei's perezhivanie-ing body. >> So, >>> I >>>>>>> started over with the subtitled version. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Here are some quick initial reflections: wonderful movie, and in >>> Andrei >>>>>>> one >>>>>>> of the more memorable characters I have seen. But I also found >> myself >>>>>>> thinking how big a difference there is between watching a film on >> my >>>>>>> 12-inch laptop with headphones (my only option at the moment), and >>>>>>> sitting >>>>>>> back and immersing yourself in a darkened theater or at least on a >>>>>>> widescreen TV without any other distractions, allowing ourselves to >>>> "fall >>>>>>> into this space" by virtue of our very awareness of the illusion >>>>>>> generated >>>>>>> by the frame, as Beth and Monica put it. This difference becomes >> even >>>>>>> bigger if the screen you're viewing it on also enables you to >> quickly >>>>>>> check >>>>>>> email from time to time during the movie, as many people do these >>> days. >>>>>>> If >>>>>>> we are to consider the film experience as a model (analogy?) for >>>>>>> perezhivanie or even a certain kind of simulation of it, this >> effect >>>> that >>>>>>> occurs when we lose ourselves in a film would be undermined by an >>>>>>> especially small frame or poor viewing conditions. At what point >> does >>>>>>> "the >>>>>>> knowledge that the movement we experience is just an illusion" (p. >> 2 >>> in >>>>>>> their article) undermine the perezhivanie-like quality of film as >>>> opposed >>>>>>> to forming an integral part of it? And, might the way distraction >>>>>>> functions >>>>>>> to undermine perezhivanie in the context of film in any way mirror >>> how >>>> we >>>>>>> "distract" ourselves in the course of living lives from conscious >>>>>>> engagement with the perezhivanie we are otherwise undergoing? Is >>>> viewing >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> film on a 12-inch screen while checking email and calling it an >>>>>>> "experience" in any way analogous to the self-deceptions and >> escapes >>> we >>>>>>> engage in during the course of either experience-as-struggle or >>>>>>> experience-as-contemplation? I did not check email while watching >>> Fate >>>>>>> of a >>>>>>> Man, by the way. Just in case you're wondering. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As for the film itself: I was struck by the incidental way in which >>> the >>>>>>> earlier loss of his childhood family is introduced and acknowledged >>> at >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> very outset, and how this contrasts with the dramatic ongoing >>>>>>> perezhivanie >>>>>>> that ensues going forward: it is as if this early loss is "taken >> for >>>>>>> granted" as also part of the Russian experience. We are not privy >> to >>>> any >>>>>>> perezhivanie he might have presumably undergone before that point; >> it >>>> is >>>>>>> simply not "within the frame." At several points, I was reminded of >>>>>>> Satyajit's World of Apu (last movie in his trilogy), where there >> was >>>>>>> also a >>>>>>> set of early losses and a relationship formed with a "son." Have >> any >>> of >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> seen it? I think it would also be a good example of perezhivanie. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I would not want to overemphasize the use of literary motifs, since >>>>>>> Bondarchuk was presumably not making any references to the concept >> of >>>>>>> perezhivanie as such. But there were several devices that evoked >> Beth >>>> and >>>>>>> Monica's passage from To The Lighthouse ("Time stand still here"), >>> and >>>>>>> their metaphor of a life (or more specifically, a perezhivanie >>> within a >>>>>>> life) spiraling back over itself to bring two disparate moments >> into >>>>>>> juxtaposition in a way such that "your life becomes >> three-dimensional >>>>>>> again" (p. 2). One occurs in the various scenes when Andrei gazes >> up >>> at >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> sky in reverie and all we see are clouds, or the scene where he >> lies >>> in >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> grass after his first escape and the camera pans back as it becomes >>>> very >>>>>>> quiet, leaving nothing but him swallowed up in the vastness of >>> nature. >>>>>>> There is a certain timeless quality to these scenes, a sense that >> he >>> is >>>>>>> momentarily transcending the linear temporal flow of his life as he >>>>>>> either >>>>>>> stands outside it and "stands still" in it. It could be a thousand >>>> years >>>>>>> passing by in those clouds, or just the 17 years of his second >> phase; >>>> it >>>>>>> suddenly doesn't matter. Another thing I noticed was the use of the >>> two >>>>>>> musical themes: the love song the accordionist plays for him and >>> Irina, >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> the festive music incongruously piped in at the concentration camp >>>> during >>>>>>> that amazing scene around Part 1, minute 45 where the prisoners are >>>> being >>>>>>> marched in and the crematorium is going full blast down the road. >> At >>>> some >>>>>>> point (I couldn't relocate it) Andrei has a flashback where he >>> revisits >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> love song and his memories of Irina; then at minute 20 in Part 2, >>> while >>>>>>> processing his family's death after coming home from the war, he >>> finds >>>>>>> himself hearing the concentration camp song on the record player >> and >>> is >>>>>>> suddenly transported back to that traumatic experience. Yet he does >>> not >>>>>>> smash the record right away; he stares at it for a minute, almost >> as >>> if >>>>>>> he >>>>>>> is resituating these two moments in relation to each other. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Perhaps I am overanalyzing, but I found both these motifs to speak >> to >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> and Monica's examples in the way they bring two moments back into >>>> contact >>>>>>> with each other. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Finally, Mike and Andy's discussion in the Misha thread about the >>>>>>> watching >>>>>>> of a film functioning as perezhivanie for those viewers for whom it >>>>>>> reflects and repeats their own experience, raises a question about >>> the >>>>>>> difference between extended perezhivanie and the personal >>> re-enactment >>>> of >>>>>>> one's perezhivanie within a much smaller time scale (the two or >> three >>>>>>> hours >>>>>>> spent watching the movie). I hope at some point we could delve more >>>> into >>>>>>> this issue of time frame and time scale in various forms of >>>> perezhivanie. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 8:39 PM, Andy Blunden >>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you Marc! It was the third "plane" which was my intention in >>>>>>>> providing "Fate of a Man" for discussion. You picked out what were >>> for >>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>> also the main (but by no means the only) instances of >> perezhivanija >>> in >>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>> movie. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It seems to me that Sokolov (the author) offers one perezhivanie >> in >>>>>>>> particular as the main theme of the movie. At the beginning of the >>>>>>>> movie, >>>>>>>> the man and boy walk up the path to the camera and at the end of >> the >>>>>>>> movie >>>>>>>> they walk off together again. So this is the central theme. As you >>>> say, >>>>>>>> when Sokolov's family has all been killed, even his talented >>> war-hero >>>>>>>> son >>>>>>>> who was going to be a famous mathematician, his life has become >>>>>>>> meaningless. I really liked your reflections of Sokolov's >>> reflections >>>>>>>> too. >>>>>>>> He sees the young orphan boy who, he discovers, has no family and >>>>>>>> doesn't >>>>>>>> even know what town he comes from, but is aimlessly living on >> pieces >>>> of >>>>>>>> rubbish. He sees that the two of them are in the same situation. >> So >>>>>>>> after >>>>>>>> some time mulling this over a they sit together in the truck, he >>> lies >>>> to >>>>>>>> the boy and tells him that he is the boy's father, and they >> embrace. >>>> But >>>>>>>> the boy questions this and he reasserts his claim and the boy >>> accepts >>>>>>>> this. >>>>>>>> The man is able to define a new meaning for his life; he has done >>> this >>>>>>>> autonomously without the help of a therapist, but he still needs >>>>>>>> another, >>>>>>>> the boy, to embody that meaning. But he knows it is his own >>> invention. >>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>> boy on the other hand has to be made to believe it is true; he is >>> not >>>>>>>> sufficiently mature to manufacture this meaning himself, but as a >>>> child >>>>>>>> he >>>>>>>> can be guided by an adult. As you say, Marc, it is very >> significant >>>> when >>>>>>>> Sokolov tells us how he is now, again, worried about his own >> death. >>>>>>>> What if >>>>>>>> I died in my sleep? that would be a shock for my son! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> For me, this reflection causes me to look back on the man's whole >>>>>>>> struggle >>>>>>>> during the war: in the first phase he does not differentiate >> between >>>> his >>>>>>>> life as a father and husband and his life as a Soviet citizen - >> war >>> is >>>>>>>> his >>>>>>>> duty and he is confident, as is everyone else, of victory. His >>> bravery >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> driving his truck to the front line under fire reflects the fact >>> that >>>> he >>>>>>>> has never imagined his own death. Then he finds himself prostrate >>>>>>>> before 2 >>>>>>>> Nazi soldiers who we assume are going among the wounded shooting >>>> anyone >>>>>>>> who >>>>>>>> has survived. But surprisingly, he is allowed to live, but is to >> be >>>>>>>> used as >>>>>>>> a slave. Sokolov has been confronted by his own mortality for the >>>> first >>>>>>>> time and he chooses life, but accepts slavery (Sartre and Hegel >> both >>>>>>>> thematize this moment in their philosophy). In this second phase >> of >>>>>>>> Sokolov's life he is a survivor. Everything hinges on surviving >> and >>>>>>>> returning to his wife and family. As you point out, Marc, his >> later >>>>>>>> reflections on this are particularly poignant, when he discovers >> the >>>>>>>> futility of this hope. Eventually, the life of forced labour >> becomes >>>>>>>> unbearable. He cries out: "Why are we forced to dig 3 cubic metres >>>> when >>>>>>>> 1 >>>>>>>> cubic meter is enough for a grave!" Sokolov has accepted and >>> embraced >>>>>>>> death >>>>>>>> after all. (Transition to the third phase.) To his German masters >>> this >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> an unendurable act of defiance. As David points out, there are >> flaws >>>> in >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> scene which follows, but ... he confronts his own death defiantly, >>>>>>>> stares >>>>>>>> it in the eye, spits on it, and his life again gains meaning as a >>>> "brave >>>>>>>> Soviet soldier" unafraid of death even in such an impossible >> moment. >>>> Not >>>>>>>> only does he survive, but takes the Nazi Colonel prisoner and >> hands >>>> the >>>>>>>> war >>>>>>>> plans over to the Red Army. Now, when he is offered the chance to >>>>>>>> return to >>>>>>>> his wife as a war hero he declines and asks to be sent back to the >>>>>>>> front. >>>>>>>> His life has adopted this new meaning which casts his life as a >>> father >>>>>>>> into >>>>>>>> the shade. He no longer fears death. But he is persuaded to take >>> time >>>>>>>> off >>>>>>>> and learns of the death of his family. As Marc relates, the >>> continued >>>>>>>> survival of his son, who is now also a war hero, provides >> continued >>>>>>>> meaning >>>>>>>> and integrates the two themes in his life. This takes work, as >> Marc >>>>>>>> points >>>>>>>> out, and he has the assistance of an older man, in achieving this >>>>>>>> redefinition of his life. But tragically, with the death of his >> son >>>>>>>> (and NB >>>>>>>> the end of the war, albeit in victory) his life is again without >>>>>>>> meaning. >>>>>>>> Fourth phase. He has survived, but has no purpose. By becoming a >>>> father >>>>>>>> again (Fifth phase), he regains the fear of death and meaning in >> his >>>>>>>> life. >>>>>>>> It is real work, and we witness this psychological turmoil as he >>> copes >>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>> the idea that this scruffy orphan boy could be a son to him, and >>>>>>>> eventually >>>>>>>> he manages it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The transition between each phase is a critical period during >> which >>>>>>>> Sokolov's personality is transformed. Note also, that there is a >>>>>>>> premonition of this perezhivanie in Sokolov's earlier life: his >>> family >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> wiped out in the Civil War and the famine of 1922, then he meets >> his >>>>>>>> wife-to-be, also raised in an orphanage, and they together create >> a >>>> life >>>>>>>> and have 17 happy years before the Nazi invasion intrudes. So from >>> the >>>>>>>> beginning of the movie we are introduced to the main theme. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> These are the main moments in the movie, which caused me to select >>> it >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> discussion rather than any other movie. Also, there is no doubt >> that >>>> in >>>>>>>> producing this movie in 1958 the Soviet government was engaged >> with >>>> its >>>>>>>> people, in a process of collective perezhivanie and by reflecting >> on >>>> the >>>>>>>> collective perezhivanie during the period of the war, before and >>>> after, >>>>>>>> they aim to assist the people in collectively assigning meaning to >>>> this >>>>>>>> terrible suffering and like the man and his "son" walking again >> into >>>> the >>>>>>>> future. As a propaganda movie, of course, it is open to much >>>> criticism, >>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>> that is hardly the point. I appreciate Marc's analysis in terms of >>> the >>>>>>>> other concepts he has introduced. I wouldn't mind a recap on >> these. >>> In >>>>>>>> terms of Vasilyuk's concepts, Sokolov's life-world is *simple and >>>>>>>> difficult*. The boy's life world is *simple and easy*. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Can we continue to discuss "Fate of a Man", while I open another >>> movie >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> analysis? I think there are at least 10 subscribers to this list >> who >>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>> published in learned journals on the topic of perezhivanie in >>>> childhood. >>>>>>>> Perhaps one of you would like to reflect on the boy's >> perezhivanija? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Andy >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>>>> Andy Blunden >>>>>>>> http://home.mira.net/~andy >>>>>>>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective- >>> decision-making >>>>>>>> On 18/01/2017 5:14 AM, Marc Clar? wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi, all, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> and thank you, Andy, for sharing this amazing film, which I >> didn't >>>>>>>>> know. I >>>>>>>>> think it will be very useful to share and discuss our respective >>>> views >>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>> perezhivanie. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> In my view, the film could be analyzed in terms of perezhivanie >> in >>>>>>>>> three >>>>>>>>> different planes. First, we could consider the person who watches >>> the >>>>>>>>> film, >>>>>>>>> and we could study how the meaning she forms for the film >>>> restructures >>>>>>>>> her >>>>>>>>> relationship with aspects of her real life -such as, for example, >>> her >>>>>>>>> own >>>>>>>>> death or the death of a beloved one, etc. (perhaps this is a >> little >>>> bit >>>>>>>>> like what Beth and Monica, or Veresov and Fleer, do with their >>> study >>>> of >>>>>>>>> playworlds?). In this plane, which would be perhaps the most >>>>>>>>> naturalistic >>>>>>>>> one, the film could be studied as an human-made cultural artifact >>>> which >>>>>>>>> restuctures psychological functions; here, the meaning formed for >>> the >>>>>>>>> film >>>>>>>>> by who watches it and uses it as mediator in her relation to her >>> real >>>>>>>>> life >>>>>>>>> would be an m-perezhivanie. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> In a second plane, we could proceed as if the film was real life, >>> and >>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>> could consider Sokolov telling his story to the man he meets by >> the >>>>>>>>> river >>>>>>>>> (a little bit like Carla telling her story to me). In this plane, >>>>>>>>> Sokolov's >>>>>>>>> narrative (i.e., what is showed to us as narrated flashback) >> could >>> be >>>>>>>>> considered as a cultural artifact that Sokolov uses to relate to >>> all >>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>> happened to him. At this plane, the meaning of this narrative >> would >>>> be >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> m-perezhivanie that, in that moment, mediates the relationship >>>> between >>>>>>>>> Sokolov and the war events he experienced years ago (but these >>> events >>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>> still very present to him, so although relating to past events, >>> there >>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> here a Sokolov's activity [towards the past war events] which is >> in >>>>>>>>> present >>>>>>>>> -this echoes Christopher when, within our conversations, said: >>> ?Part >>>> of >>>>>>>>> this might also be a question of what it means to describe and >>>>>>>>> represent >>>>>>>>> one's own perezhivanie figuratively/narratively (whether to >> others, >>>> or >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> oneself), as opposed to living that perezhivanie. Especially if >> the >>>>>>>>> attempt >>>>>>>>> to capture/represent one's own perezhivanie is, perhaps, also >>> central >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> the living of it?? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> In a third plane, we could proceed as if Sokolov's narration was >>> not >>>> a >>>>>>>>> retrospective narration, but the on-time sequence of events with >>>>>>>>> on-time >>>>>>>>> Sokolov's explanation of these events (in the moments in which >> the >>>>>>>>> narrator >>>>>>>>> voice is assumed within the flashback). In this plane, there are >>>>>>>>> several >>>>>>>>> interesting perezhivanie phenomena. Clearly, there is a Sokolov's >>>>>>>>> activity >>>>>>>>> of experiencing-as-struggle, which initiates when he realizes >> that >>>> all >>>>>>>>> his >>>>>>>>> family, except one son, had been killed 2 years ago. At this >>> moment, >>>>>>>>> his >>>>>>>>> life becomes meaningless; the meaning (m-perezhivanie) he uses to >>>>>>>>> relate >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> all his life (including the past) at this moment is expressed in >>> his >>>>>>>>> conversation with his oncle: ?it's got to be that this life of >> mine >>>> is >>>>>>>>> nothing but a nightmare!?. In this moment, Sokolov's past in the >>>>>>>>> prision >>>>>>>>> camp becomes also meaningless: then, his link to life (the >>>>>>>>> m-perezhivanie >>>>>>>>> that made being alive meaningful to him) was meeting his family; >>> but >>>> at >>>>>>>>> that time his family was already dead, so when he discovers it, >> he >>>>>>>>> realizes >>>>>>>>> that this m-perezhivanie (the idea of meeting his family) was >>> linking >>>>>>>>> him >>>>>>>>> to death, not to life, so all his efforts to surviving become >>>>>>>>> meaningless: >>>>>>>>> ?Every night, when I was a prisioner, I talked with them. Now it >>>> turns >>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>> that for two years I was talking with the dead??. In this >>>> conversation, >>>>>>>>> however, his oncle offers him an alternative m-perezhivanie to >>> relate >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> his life: he still has a son, so the m-perehivanie of meeting his >>>>>>>>> family >>>>>>>>> can still turns Sokolov's life meaningful: ?you've got to go on >>>> living. >>>>>>>>> You >>>>>>>>> have to find Anatoly. When the war is over, your son will get >>>> married, >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> will live with them. You will take up your carpentry again, play >>> with >>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>> grandkids?. It takes some time to Sokolov to enter into this >>>>>>>>> m-perezhivanie, but he does it and his life becomes meaningful >>> again: >>>>>>>>> ?and >>>>>>>>> then, unexpectedly, I've got a gleam of sunlight?. But, then, >>> Anatoly >>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>> dies. How to keep living? Here, Sokolov holds the m-perezhivanie >>> that >>>>>>>>> linked him to life until that moment, and therefore, he needs a >>> son; >>>>>>>>> pretending being the father of Vanya turns his life meaningful >>> again. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Another interesting thing, still at that level, is how Sokolov's >>>>>>>>> relation >>>>>>>>> with his own immediate death changes along the different >> occasions >>> in >>>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>> he faces it. I thing here there are examples of >>>>>>>>> experiencing-as-contemplation -in my view, this is not >>>>>>>>> experiencing-as-struggle because the situation of impossibility >>> (the >>>>>>>>> immediate death) is removed existentially (Sokolov's life is >> given >>>>>>>>> back to >>>>>>>>> him), so that there is not a permanent situation of impossibility >>>>>>>>> which is >>>>>>>>> initially meaningless and is turned into meaningful. In each >>> occasion >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> which Sokolov is faced with his immediate death, the >> m-perezhivanie >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> mediates this relationship is different. When he is captured, his >>>>>>>>> m-perezhivanie is expressed as: ?here's my death coming after >> me?. >>>>>>>>> When he >>>>>>>>> is conducted to meet the nazi official, the m-perezhivanie is >>>> expressed >>>>>>>>> as: >>>>>>>>> ?the end of your misery?, ?to my death and my release of this >>>> torment, >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> will drink?. In the first, the death is running after Sokolov; in >>> the >>>>>>>>> second, it is Sokolov happily going to meet death. Later, at the >>> end >>>> of >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> film, he faces his immediate death again, and the m-perezhivanie >> is >>>>>>>>> expressed as: ?I'm really worried that I might die in my sleep, >> and >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> would frighten my little son?. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Well, just some thoughts after watching this wonderful film. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Marc. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 2017-01-15 0:06 GMT+01:00 Christopher Schuck < >>>> schuckcschuck@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> : >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Yes, definitely that article! And specifically, when I used >>>> "pivoting" >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> couldn't help but think of Beth's earlier example about how a >>> child >>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>> use a stick as a pivot for a horse. Perhaps a somewhat different >>>>>>>>>> application but related, no? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 4:06 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < >>>>>>>>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Chris, all, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> your post is totally relevant to Beth's and Monica's article in >>> the >>>>>>>>>>> special issue. They write about film and perezhivanie (quoting >>>>>>>>>>> Sobchack) >>>>>>>>>>> the following: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The reason that film allows us to glimpse the future is that >>> there >>>>>>>>>>> is a >>>>>>>>>>> connection between filmic time and ?real? time: ?The images of >> a >>>> film >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> exist >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> in the world as a temporal flow, within finitude and situation. >>>>>>>>>>> Indeed, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> fascination of the film is that it does not transcend our >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> lived-experience >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> of temporality, but rather that it seems to partake of it, to >>> share >>>>>>>>>>> it? >>>>>>>>>>> (1992, p. 60). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> And later >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> "Specifically, the way that the flow of time becomes >>>>>>>>>>> multidirectional is >>>>>>>>>>> that ?rehearsals make it necessary to think of the future in >>> such a >>>>>>>>>>> way >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> to create a past? (1985, p. 39). As Schechner ex-plains: ?In a >>> very >>>>>>>>>>> real >>>>>>>>>>> way the future ? the project coming into existence through the >>>>>>>>>>> process >>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> rehearsal ? determines the past: what will be kept from earlier >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> rehearsals >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> or from the ?source ma-terials? (1985, p. 39)." >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Alfredo >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>> >>>>>>>>>> du> >>>>>>>>>>> on behalf of Christopher Schuck >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: 14 January 2017 21:43 >>>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fate of a Man >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> But that's both the limitation and strength of art or fictional >>>>>>>>>>> narrative >>>>>>>>>>> as opposed to real life, isn't it? That art focuses our >> attention >>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> highlights certain features in a way that is idealized and >>>>>>>>>>> artificially >>>>>>>>>>> "designed" to convey something more clearly and purely (but >> less >>>>>>>>>>> organically and authentically) than it would be conveyed in the >>>>>>>>>>> course >>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> living it, or observing someone else living it? One way to get >>>> around >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> would be, as David says, to analyze the film in terms of clues >> as >>> to >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> stages of emergence. But maybe another way to use the film >> would >>> be >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> view >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> it not so much as a complete, self-sufficient "example" of >>>>>>>>>>> perezhivanie, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> a *tool *for pivoting back and forth between the concept of >>>>>>>>>>> perezhivanie >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> imaginatively constructed (through fiction), and the concept of >>>>>>>>>>> perezhivanie as imaginatively constructed (through our real >>> living >>>>>>>>>>> experience and observation of it). So, it would be the >> *pivoting* >>>>>>>>>>> between >>>>>>>>>>> these two manifestations of the concept (designed vs. evolved, >> as >>>>>>>>>>> David >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> put >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> it) that reveals new insights about perezhivanie, rather than >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> understanding >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> the concept from the film per se. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 3:08 PM, David Kellogg < >>>> dkellogg60@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I think there's a good reason why Andy started a new thread on >>>> this: >>>>>>>>>>> he's a >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> very tidy thinker (quite unlike yours truly) and he knows that >>> one >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> reason >>>>>>>>>>> why xmca threads are seldom cumulative is that they digress to >>>>>>>>>>> related >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> problems without solving the immmediate ones. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, of course, a film allows us to consider an example of >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> "perezhivanie", >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> but it is a designed perezhivanie rather than an evolved one; >> it >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't >>>>>>>>>>> explicitly display the various stages of emergence required >> for a >>>>>>>>>>> genetic >>>>>>>>>>> analysis, unless we analyze it not as a complete and finished >>> work >>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> art >>>>>>>>>>> but instead for clues as to the stages of its creation (the way >>>> that, >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> example, "Quietly Flows the Don" was analyzed to determine its >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> authenticity). >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I remember that In the original short story, the schnapps >>> drinking >>>>>>>>>>>> scene seemed like pure sleight of hand: an artistically >>> gratuitous >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> example >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> of what eventually gave Soviet social realism such a bad name. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> David Kellogg >>>>>>>>>>>> Macquarie University >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 10:04 PM, Carol Macdonald < >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> carolmacdon@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Fellow XMCa-ers >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I have watched it through now, thank you Andy, but right now >>> only >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> empirical >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> psychological categories come to mind. I will watch it again >>> and >>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> meanwhile let my fellows with more recent experience of >>>>>>>>>>>> /perezhivanie/ >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> take >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> the discussion further. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> It is a kind of timeless story, and modern film techniques >>> would >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> perhaps >>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> more explicit. At the least I would say it has for me a >> Russian >>>>>>>>>>>>> understanding of suffering, perhaps because of their unique >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> experience >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> it. But having said that, WWII must have generated other >> similar >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> experiences, apart from the first part about Andrei's family >>>> dying >>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> famine. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Carol >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 14 January 2017 at 02:15, Andy Blunden >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I watched it in two parts with subtitles: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16w7fg_destiny-of-a-man- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1959-pt-1_creation >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16wat4_destiny-of-a-man- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1959-pt-2_creation >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Andy >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ >> ------------------------------ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Andy Blunden >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://home.mira.net/~andy >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> decision-making >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 14/01/2017 2:35 AM, Beth Ferholt wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for taking us to a shared example. I think that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> having a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> Carol A Macdonald Ph.D (Edin) >>>>>>>>>>>>> Cultural Historical Activity Theory >>>>>>>>>>>>> Honorary Research Fellow: Department of Linguistics, Unisa >>>>>>>>>>>>> alternative email address: tmacdoca@unisa.ac.za >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Beth Ferholt >>>> Assistant Professor >>>> Department of Early Childhood and Art Education >>>> Brooklyn College, City University of New York >>>> 2900 Bedford Avenue >>>> Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 >>>> >>>> Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu >>>> Phone: (718) 951-5205 >>>> Fax: (718) 951-4816 >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Robert Lake Ed.D. >>> Associate Professor >>> Social Foundations of Education >>> Dept. of Curriculum, Foundations, and Reading >>> Georgia Southern University >>> P. O. Box 8144, Statesboro, GA 30460 >>> Secretary/Treasurer-AERA- Paulo Freire Special Interest Group >>> Webpage: https://georgiasouthern.academia.edu/RobertLake*Those who have >>> never despaired have neither lived nor loved. Hope is inseparable from >>> despair. Those of us who truly hope make despair a constant companion >> whom >>> we outwrestle every day owing to our commitment to justice, love, and >>> hope* ( >>> Cornel West, 2008, p. 185). >>> >> > > > > -- > Beth Ferholt > Assistant Professor > Department of Early Childhood and Art Education > Brooklyn College, City University of New York > 2900 Bedford Avenue > Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 > > Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu > Phone: (718) 951-5205 > Fax: (718) 951-4816 From bferholt@gmail.com Thu Feb 9 21:22:51 2017 From: bferholt@gmail.com (Beth Ferholt) Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 00:22:51 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fate of a Man In-Reply-To: References: <048522a2-cca0-3e56-cae2-f2142b9fbd5a@mira.net> <1484427999407.2877@iped.uio.no> <2270f5e7-7d82-5150-89a3-808a4e20b89b@mira.net> <9B8D2964-0926-4976-91F2-CDD51E50A6F5@gmail.com> <589ce1e1.4613620a.7f22b.4034@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Right, that is a good point. I use the Virginia Woolf version. But I do still have a sense that the meta quality of that standing still is worth elaborating upon in some way -- even though standing still when we are by virtue of being alive developing/moving through time means all that I was describing. I think this will help us to see something about perezhivanie. We'll see. Beth On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 11:26 PM, Helena Worthen wrote: > Beautiful, suggestive images!! > > Thanks -- H > > Helena Worthen > helenaworthen@gmail.com > Vietnam blog: helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > On Feb 9, 2017, at 8:13 PM, Beth Ferholt wrote: > > > I am not well enough read to respond to these recent posts but was very > > interested to talk more about "meta". I have, since I began teaching > > preschool, thought that the feeling of a "spiral of consciousness" -- is > > that my own term or from someone else? -- what I mean is when you are > > stopped in your tracks by a sensation that you are walking above layers > of > > time in one place, or even that you are floating above your self as your > > mind races in every widening spirals ... that this sensation was familiar > > because I had felt it often in childhood. I connected it to young > > children's love of repetition and ritual. > > > > I often felt, as a teacher, that the children in my class were walking a > > bit above the ground most of the time. They appeared to be touching the > > floor or the asphalt but they were not, usually. This became clear in > the > > misunderstandings between adults and children that make up the life of > the > > preschool (sort of like the one I mentioned above, between me and Mike, > but > > so much larger) -- but I also have some earliest memories of seeing > things > > repeatedly growing and shrinking in a spiral rhythm as I would try to > sleep. > > > > That is my two cents of response : ) : That something of the nested > dolls, > > or the liar paradox (Hofstadter, 1979 is where I heard that -- > > Epidemenides/liar paradox), is essential to perezhivaie ... not just a > > repetition. > > > > Beth > > > > > > > > Beth > > > > On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 5:14 PM, Wolff-Michael Roth < > > wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> Responding to Robert's invitation, > >> > >> My book title is not going meta. Instead, it goes to the very hard of > >> mathematical praxis. What is it that allows a mathematician to see in > the > >> moves of another a typical mathematical move rather than the move of > >> another. What is it in the doing that makes it mathematical rather > >> scientific, commonsense, chemical... And the book is concerned with > showing > >> the sociogenesis of the mathematics of mathematics, the origin of > >> mathematical reasoning AS social relation (more accurately, because of > the > >> ideality of mathematics, a societal relation---see Il'enkov, the ideal, > the > >> general [obshee]). > >> > >> For the remainder of the paragraphs of the unsigned message, I do not > >> understand a thing. I thought I understood Heidegger a bit, have read > many > >> of his works many times. But I do not see how anything in these > paragraphs > >> arises out of the thinking of Heidegger, or anyone else who took up and > >> developed the philosopher's thinking, like Derrida or Nancy . . . > >> > >> Michael > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------ > >> -------------------- > >> Wolff-Michael Roth, Lansdowne Professor > >> Applied Cognitive Science > >> MacLaurin Building A567 > >> University of Victoria > >> Victoria, BC, V8P 5C2 > >> http://web.uvic.ca/~mroth > >> > >> New book: *The Mathematics of Mathematics > >> >> directions-in-mathematics-and-science-education/the- > >> mathematics-of-mathematics/>* > >> > >> On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 1:50 PM, Robert Lake < > boblake@georgiasouthern.edu> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> For meta question I defer to Professor Roth himself. > >>> (Included in this email). > >>> Robert > >>> > >>> On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 4:40 PM, wrote: > >>> > >>>> Beth, Robert, and the others forming a ?(we)?. > >>>> > >>>> Beth said it is the ?()? within the ?()? that interests her [as > being]. > >>>> Maybe Framing is ALL communication, ALL thought, ALL consciousness > .... > >>>> Bateson?.... but Beth thinks we need to tackle framing head on [face > >>> into] > >>>> when discussing perezhivanie. > >>>> > >>>> Now I noticed that Wolff-Michael Roth included in the title of his > book > >>>> the phrase ? mathematics of mathematics - and my mind wondered to > >>>> conjecture if this is going ?meta? and if ?()? is also going ?meta?. > >>>> > >>>> Could Beth?s ?()? as symbolic also have another aspect [or side] that > >> is > >>>> () = bracket and the doubling ?()? = bracketing the bracket. These > >>> moves > >>>> as examples of going ?meta? which also plays with saying/not saying or > >>>> revealing/concealing that Ed Wall recently posted when he said: > >>>> The truth of the proposition, in effect, resides in the possibility of > >>>> bringing its referents into the light (here is where aletheia takes a > >>>> part); I.e. uncovering. That is, on the LEVEL of ?apophantic as? > things > >>> are > >>>> propositionally either true or false, but on the LEVEL of the > >>> ?hermeneutic > >>>> as? they are neither. > >>>> > >>>> However, the ?apophantic as? IS (its being) grounded in > interpretation, > >>>> I.e. the ?hermeneutic as? (its being). For Heidegger (and this is an > >>>> oversimplification) ?hermeneutic truth? IS in effect (in use) > >> DISclosure. > >>>> ..... complicated because if one surfaces [metaphor of LEVELS] to the > >>>> apophantic then, in effect (in use) there is a covering back up > >>>> (closure).... Also, and this is most important, the consequent would > >> not > >>> be > >>>> an understanding of Trump?s speech, but an understanding > (interpreting) > >>> of > >>>> how ?(I)? understand (interpret) Trump?s speech. > >>>> > >>>> I am travelling back and forth exploring saying as () generating > >> effects > >>>> IN USE, and then doubling back and exploring the () generating effects > >> IN > >>>> USE through ?()? interpretation of the uses. To go hear would have to > >>>> bring in Umberto Eco who pleads for us to make a distinction between > >>> ?use? > >>>> and ?interpretation? AS aspects of semiosis and semiotic but this is > >> for > >>>> another turn. > >>>> > >>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > >>>> > >>>> From: Beth Ferholt > >>>> Sent: February 5, 2017 6:38 PM > >>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fate of a Man > >>>> > >>>> Thanks for the calling out to Monica and me, Mike and Andy -- I had to > >>> stop > >>>> checking XMCA for a couple of weeks so I did not see the discussion or > >>> your > >>>> notes to me in the chain, until today. One of the the strengths of > >> XMCA > >>> is > >>>> that it creates a conversation that can include people who can not > >>> always? > >>>> respond that very day, or even week, due to various forms of > >>> interruption! > >>>> Often these "interruptions" are children or political events, which > >> canY > >>>> help us to understand perezhivanie. > >>>> > >>>> As well as spending time at JFK, recently, many of us here in New York > >>> have > >>>> been attending local protests to keep our neighborhoods feeling safe > >> for > >>>> everyone. I live in a neighborhood in Brooklyn that includes several > >>>> Muslim communities and several Jewish communities (as well as a few > >>> Russian > >>>> and Polish communities), and at the local protests these past few > weeks > >>>> some people have had photographs of their family members who were > >> killed > >>> by > >>>> the Nazis attached to the back of their "never again" signs. Also we > >> all, > >>>> Muslim, Jewish, etc. families, have been often bringing our children > >> to > >>>> the protests. > >>>> > >>>> So I have been thinking a lot about children and hope, during the past > >>> few > >>>> weeks. It is within this frame that I saw this film. I think the > film > >>> was > >>>> expecting us to see the child as only benefitting from the main > >>> character's > >>>> lying, saying that he was the child's father, and of course the child > >> did > >>>> benefit, but I think that perezhivanie is about truth, somehow, > >> although > >>> I > >>>> am not sure how. > >>>> > >>>> My second thought is that Manchester by the Sea must have been > >>> referencing > >>>> this film, with its return-to-the-space-where-the-house-was scene, > and > >>>> also > >>>> with the choice to replace the lost self (as father) / family or no. > I > >>>> think it might help this conversation if we all saw both films, > >> actually. > >>>> Two thoughts on this methods suggestion for our conversation, before I > >>>> return to the topic itself. > >>>> > >>>> 1) It is odd how closely the two films are related, as I did not know > >>> that > >>>> the two films were related when I told Chris to see Manchester by the > >> Sea > >>>> in relation to thinking about perezhivanie. I told Chris when I saw > >> him > >>> in > >>>> person, and I think that discussions about perezhivanie are often > >>> different > >>>> in person. We learned at LCHC in the 2004/5 playworld projects that > >>> these > >>>> in person discussions about perezhivanie have a pronounced proleptic > >>>> structure, mirroring the topic of study, such that the conclusion of > >> the > >>>> discussion appears at the start: It feels like magic is happening. (I > >>>> think this has something to do with how good teachers see the things > in > >>>> their classroom that are useful or no before they happen or "behind > >> their > >>>> heads" ... when you are very present you have this "sixth sense," > which > >>> is > >>>> really an experience of time moving in two directions at once ... > being > >>>> very present can often require a lot of in person time and being with > >>>> children speeds up the process.) > >>>> > >>>> 2) It is a strength that the XMCA conversations can continue through > >> all > >>> of > >>>> our different schedules. It is a negative that they are not in > person, > >>> and > >>>> seeing films together can really help. This is where we went on the > >>>> perezhivanie facebook page when it was briefly in English and in > >> Russian > >>> -- > >>>> with a film, and it was very helpful. (Of course I am thinking of > this > >>>> while considering the changing role and form of LCHC and Mike's > >>>> participation in LCHC and XMCA. I am thinking of the mistakes that > are > >>>> communication. A story about this that I thought of recently, which > >>> shows > >>>> this point well, and seems worth retelling BECAUSE when studying > >>>> perezhivanie the form is often (always??) the study of the content: As > >> a > >>>> newish graduate student Mike once said "thank you" to me when I made a > >>>> comment in the afternoon about an AM conversation that day. Mike's > >>> "thank > >>>> you" encouraged me to pay extra attention to this comment/thought of > >>> mine, > >>>> which later became important in our analysis of a > difficult-to-decipher > >>>> playworld event. I was thinking of this event as I walked and talked > >>> with > >>>> a doctoral student of my own -- I seem to have a heavily spacial > memory > >>>> process and my student and I were walking through a doorway -- and I > >>>> suddenly realized that Mike could have been thanking me for holding > the > >>>> door for him at this time in the past when his feedback was so > >> important > >>> to > >>>> me ... maybe he did not hear my comment, but just thanked me for > >> holding > >>>> the door ... in fact it now appears to me that this was probably the > >>> case!) > >>>> > >>>> The interesting thing to me about the above 2 points is the framing. > >> It > >>> IS > >>>> the "()" within the "()" that interests me. Maybe Framing is all > >>>> communication or all thought or consciousness ... Bateson? ... but I > >>> think > >>>> we need to tackle framing head on when discussing perezhivanie. The > >> two > >>>> films are very different in regards to framing, I think this is why > >> they > >>>> are most interesting to think about together, but first I have two > >>>> citations for thinking about time that I use frequently in my writing > >> on > >>>> perezhivanie. > >>>> > >>>> These seem worth repeating here, as this thinking about time in > >>> space/time > >>>> seems to me to be thinking about framing ... the "()" makes us double > >>> back > >>>> in time as we read -- : > >>>> > >>>> (As to Performance, Alfredo copied the Schechner quote above.) > >>>> > >>>> Dewey's relation of the notion of object to prolepsis (on XMCA): > >>>> Mike (2007) used the term ?temporally double sided? to describe this > >>>> phenomenon of growing back and towards the future and the past > >>>> simultaneously. > >>>> > >>>> What I am (still) thinking about, now, most often: > >>>> It is the juxtaposition of temporal double sidedness with stages that > >>>> creates perezhivanie. What Schechner argues is that this juxtaposition > >>>> provides the rhythm that allows us to raise ourselves up and hover, > >>>> suspended momentarily in a state of being simultaneously ourselves and > >>> not > >>>> ourselves: our past and future selves (someone else). > >>>> > >>>> So my first point is about framing and my second is about children. > >> The > >>>> Fate Of Man is all about the frames / "()". The stories are nested > >> within > >>>> eachother, repeating themselves, maybe even sort of like a fractal, or > >>>> anyhow a spiral? I have some congenital prosopagnosia, getting worse > >> as > >>> I > >>>> age and definitely bad with a film like this. I kept thinking we were > >>> back > >>>> at the ferry as the form of the conversation and context images > >> repeated > >>>> themselves, as I could not recognize the face of the character who was > >>> the > >>>> audience for our hero's story! Manchester by the Sea, on the other > >> hand, > >>>> had no frames. We just jumped right in and rode it through. I only > saw > >>>> Manchester once but do others think this is true? relevant? > >>>> > >>>> I think that the question of children's position in relation to adult > >>>> perezhivanie is central in both of these films. The children in both > of > >>>> these films appear to want the main characters to try again at being > >>>> fathers. This is a critique of films about children -- I can not > think > >>> of > >>>> the name of the person who made this critique, but I can find it for > >>> anyone > >>>> if needed -- : We adults often make films not about children but about > >>> our > >>>> own childhoods. We make films about children who are no longer with > >> us. > >>>> But is this really best for the films, as films are usually best when > >>> they > >>>> are somehow in dialogue with their topic, this is a characteristic of > >> the > >>>> medium, no? > >>>> > >>>> If you do not have some pretense, some playing again, you can not have > >>>> perezhivanie. But I think that Fate of Man is not about perezhivanie, > >>>> although in a different way than Manchester by the Sea is not about > >>>> perezhivanie. In Manchester by the Sea there is no other with whom to > >>>> perezhivanie because the main character and his former wife still love > >>> each > >>>> other, or at lease he still loves her and she returns enough of the > >> love > >>> to > >>>> keep him loving her, and neither of them can pull the other up because > >>> they > >>>> both hit bottom together and in the same story. In Fate of Man there > >> is > >>> is > >>>> no chance for perezhivanie because the other needs to be involved in > >> some > >>>> honest way, or there is no dialogue. > >>>> > >>>> In Fate of Man the hero seems to me to be playing out his memory in > the > >>>> real world. A child is not an other with whom one can ever > >> perezhivanie. > >>>> This is not perezhivanie as there is no real world as a player, and > >> this > >>> is > >>>> why our hero's heart will fail him. He did not reach bottom and then > >>> start > >>>> to pull himself up by connecting with another with great bravery. > >>> Instead, > >>>> as he says himself, he just snapped -- he is now living in a dream. > >>>> > >>>> As Larry put it, above in this chain: "In other words, navigating > >> through > >>>> the suffering and existential emptiness is not a hero?s journey." And > >>> this > >>>> point is relevant, again, to our method for studying perezhivanie. I > >>> don't > >>>> think we can manage this one on our own (XMCA), even as a group that > >>> allows > >>>> for conversations over extended time periods. > >>>> > >>>> If form and content are related in this process, I'd say that we won't > >>>> understand this process until we see children as full people. And > >>>> simultaneously as children. Children have something to tell us about > >>> this > >>>> process that no one else can tell us, and they are not going to tell > us > >>>> this in a way that those of us who are researchers/scholars can > listen, > >>>> without the bridge of the teacher voices. How to include these voices > >> in > >>>> our research is key. And the answer has something to do with art, as > >>> well > >>>> as with time and space. > >>>> > >>>> I am going to send this as it is long enough already, and then catch > up > >>>> with the related chains after I do ... And I won't say more now, but I > >>>> agree with all the people who thought this was a great pick to start > >> the > >>>> discussion. Many levels to discuss and I also found many aspects of > >> the > >>>> film related to perezhivanie in many ways! Beth > >>>> > >>>> On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 11:51 PM, Andy Blunden > >>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> How about a documentary movie about the first Trump voter who dies > >> as a > >>>>> result of repeal of Obama Care? That would be a perezhivanie within a > >>>>> perezhivanie! > >>>>> > >>>>> Andy > >>>>> > >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ > >>>>> Andy Blunden > >>>>> http://home.mira.net/~andy > >>>>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective- > >> decision-making > >>>>> On 21/01/2017 12:03 PM, Helena Worthen wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> I am late to this discussion, but I have been paying attention. I > >> was > >>>>>> reluctant to expose myself to the emotional challenges of the film. > >> I > >>>> knew > >>>>>> that between the majestic music, the stunning black and white > >> images, > >>>> the > >>>>>> beautiful human faces and bodies (and some very ugly ones), and the > >>>> twists > >>>>>> of the story, I was going to be deeply moved. However, I have been > >>>> reading > >>>>>> two books by Svetlana Alexievich -- Voices from Chernobyl and > >>> Secondhand > >>>>>> Time - which tell equally heartbreaking, horrifying stories of > >>>> suffering. > >>>>>> Reading her work inclines me to place the film in the context of the > >>>> period > >>>>>> of deStalinization after Kruschev's 1956 speech to the 20th Congress > >>> of > >>>> the > >>>>>> CPSU, which gave the signal that it was permissible to begin to talk > >>>> freely > >>>>>> about Soviet history. It was a period of trying to build a story > >> that > >>>> could > >>>>>> explain and honor, if not justify, the extreme suffering of the > >> Soviet > >>>>>> people. This film seems to me to set out to accomplish that. So does > >>>>>> Alexievich's book, which is a compilation of interviews done between > >>>> 1991 > >>>>>> and 2012, with people who had something to say (good and bad) about > >>> the > >>>>>> Soviet regime and the experience of its dissolution. She got the > >> 2015 > >>>> Nobel > >>>>>> Prize for this book. And I sense that Andy, or someone, is > >>> anticipating > >>>>>> that the US is going to have to produce some works of scholarship or > >>>> art, > >>>>>> or both, that attempt to explain what is happening now here in the > >> US > >>> -- > >>>>>> for example, this afternoon, under President Trump. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Helena Worthen > >>>>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com > >>>>>> Vietnam blog: helenaworthen.wordpress.com > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Jan 19, 2017, at 4:00 PM, Christopher Schuck wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> For some reason I couldn't see the subtitles showing up in Fate of a > >>> Man > >>>>>>> the first time, so I started to watch it dubbed in English instead. > >>> But > >>>>>>> the > >>>>>>> mannered Hollywood accents definitely were not exactly helping to > >>>> convey > >>>>>>> the "real Russian soul" Robbins talks about! It felt like I was > >> being > >>>>>>> asked > >>>>>>> to imagine Cary Grant inhabiting Andrei's perezhivanie-ing body. > >> So, > >>> I > >>>>>>> started over with the subtitled version. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Here are some quick initial reflections: wonderful movie, and in > >>> Andrei > >>>>>>> one > >>>>>>> of the more memorable characters I have seen. But I also found > >> myself > >>>>>>> thinking how big a difference there is between watching a film on > >> my > >>>>>>> 12-inch laptop with headphones (my only option at the moment), and > >>>>>>> sitting > >>>>>>> back and immersing yourself in a darkened theater or at least on a > >>>>>>> widescreen TV without any other distractions, allowing ourselves to > >>>> "fall > >>>>>>> into this space" by virtue of our very awareness of the illusion > >>>>>>> generated > >>>>>>> by the frame, as Beth and Monica put it. This difference becomes > >> even > >>>>>>> bigger if the screen you're viewing it on also enables you to > >> quickly > >>>>>>> check > >>>>>>> email from time to time during the movie, as many people do these > >>> days. > >>>>>>> If > >>>>>>> we are to consider the film experience as a model (analogy?) for > >>>>>>> perezhivanie or even a certain kind of simulation of it, this > >> effect > >>>> that > >>>>>>> occurs when we lose ourselves in a film would be undermined by an > >>>>>>> especially small frame or poor viewing conditions. At what point > >> does > >>>>>>> "the > >>>>>>> knowledge that the movement we experience is just an illusion" (p. > >> 2 > >>> in > >>>>>>> their article) undermine the perezhivanie-like quality of film as > >>>> opposed > >>>>>>> to forming an integral part of it? And, might the way distraction > >>>>>>> functions > >>>>>>> to undermine perezhivanie in the context of film in any way mirror > >>> how > >>>> we > >>>>>>> "distract" ourselves in the course of living lives from conscious > >>>>>>> engagement with the perezhivanie we are otherwise undergoing? Is > >>>> viewing > >>>>>>> a > >>>>>>> film on a 12-inch screen while checking email and calling it an > >>>>>>> "experience" in any way analogous to the self-deceptions and > >> escapes > >>> we > >>>>>>> engage in during the course of either experience-as-struggle or > >>>>>>> experience-as-contemplation? I did not check email while watching > >>> Fate > >>>>>>> of a > >>>>>>> Man, by the way. Just in case you're wondering. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> As for the film itself: I was struck by the incidental way in which > >>> the > >>>>>>> earlier loss of his childhood family is introduced and acknowledged > >>> at > >>>>>>> the > >>>>>>> very outset, and how this contrasts with the dramatic ongoing > >>>>>>> perezhivanie > >>>>>>> that ensues going forward: it is as if this early loss is "taken > >> for > >>>>>>> granted" as also part of the Russian experience. We are not privy > >> to > >>>> any > >>>>>>> perezhivanie he might have presumably undergone before that point; > >> it > >>>> is > >>>>>>> simply not "within the frame." At several points, I was reminded of > >>>>>>> Satyajit's World of Apu (last movie in his trilogy), where there > >> was > >>>>>>> also a > >>>>>>> set of early losses and a relationship formed with a "son." Have > >> any > >>> of > >>>>>>> you > >>>>>>> seen it? I think it would also be a good example of perezhivanie. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I would not want to overemphasize the use of literary motifs, since > >>>>>>> Bondarchuk was presumably not making any references to the concept > >> of > >>>>>>> perezhivanie as such. But there were several devices that evoked > >> Beth > >>>> and > >>>>>>> Monica's passage from To The Lighthouse ("Time stand still here"), > >>> and > >>>>>>> their metaphor of a life (or more specifically, a perezhivanie > >>> within a > >>>>>>> life) spiraling back over itself to bring two disparate moments > >> into > >>>>>>> juxtaposition in a way such that "your life becomes > >> three-dimensional > >>>>>>> again" (p. 2). One occurs in the various scenes when Andrei gazes > >> up > >>> at > >>>>>>> the > >>>>>>> sky in reverie and all we see are clouds, or the scene where he > >> lies > >>> in > >>>>>>> the > >>>>>>> grass after his first escape and the camera pans back as it becomes > >>>> very > >>>>>>> quiet, leaving nothing but him swallowed up in the vastness of > >>> nature. > >>>>>>> There is a certain timeless quality to these scenes, a sense that > >> he > >>> is > >>>>>>> momentarily transcending the linear temporal flow of his life as he > >>>>>>> either > >>>>>>> stands outside it and "stands still" in it. It could be a thousand > >>>> years > >>>>>>> passing by in those clouds, or just the 17 years of his second > >> phase; > >>>> it > >>>>>>> suddenly doesn't matter. Another thing I noticed was the use of the > >>> two > >>>>>>> musical themes: the love song the accordionist plays for him and > >>> Irina, > >>>>>>> and > >>>>>>> the festive music incongruously piped in at the concentration camp > >>>> during > >>>>>>> that amazing scene around Part 1, minute 45 where the prisoners are > >>>> being > >>>>>>> marched in and the crematorium is going full blast down the road. > >> At > >>>> some > >>>>>>> point (I couldn't relocate it) Andrei has a flashback where he > >>> revisits > >>>>>>> the > >>>>>>> love song and his memories of Irina; then at minute 20 in Part 2, > >>> while > >>>>>>> processing his family's death after coming home from the war, he > >>> finds > >>>>>>> himself hearing the concentration camp song on the record player > >> and > >>> is > >>>>>>> suddenly transported back to that traumatic experience. Yet he does > >>> not > >>>>>>> smash the record right away; he stares at it for a minute, almost > >> as > >>> if > >>>>>>> he > >>>>>>> is resituating these two moments in relation to each other. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Perhaps I am overanalyzing, but I found both these motifs to speak > >> to > >>>>>>> Beth > >>>>>>> and Monica's examples in the way they bring two moments back into > >>>> contact > >>>>>>> with each other. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Finally, Mike and Andy's discussion in the Misha thread about the > >>>>>>> watching > >>>>>>> of a film functioning as perezhivanie for those viewers for whom it > >>>>>>> reflects and repeats their own experience, raises a question about > >>> the > >>>>>>> difference between extended perezhivanie and the personal > >>> re-enactment > >>>> of > >>>>>>> one's perezhivanie within a much smaller time scale (the two or > >> three > >>>>>>> hours > >>>>>>> spent watching the movie). I hope at some point we could delve more > >>>> into > >>>>>>> this issue of time frame and time scale in various forms of > >>>> perezhivanie. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Chris > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 8:39 PM, Andy Blunden > >>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Thank you Marc! It was the third "plane" which was my intention in > >>>>>>>> providing "Fate of a Man" for discussion. You picked out what were > >>> for > >>>>>>>> me > >>>>>>>> also the main (but by no means the only) instances of > >> perezhivanija > >>> in > >>>>>>>> this > >>>>>>>> movie. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> It seems to me that Sokolov (the author) offers one perezhivanie > >> in > >>>>>>>> particular as the main theme of the movie. At the beginning of the > >>>>>>>> movie, > >>>>>>>> the man and boy walk up the path to the camera and at the end of > >> the > >>>>>>>> movie > >>>>>>>> they walk off together again. So this is the central theme. As you > >>>> say, > >>>>>>>> when Sokolov's family has all been killed, even his talented > >>> war-hero > >>>>>>>> son > >>>>>>>> who was going to be a famous mathematician, his life has become > >>>>>>>> meaningless. I really liked your reflections of Sokolov's > >>> reflections > >>>>>>>> too. > >>>>>>>> He sees the young orphan boy who, he discovers, has no family and > >>>>>>>> doesn't > >>>>>>>> even know what town he comes from, but is aimlessly living on > >> pieces > >>>> of > >>>>>>>> rubbish. He sees that the two of them are in the same situation. > >> So > >>>>>>>> after > >>>>>>>> some time mulling this over a they sit together in the truck, he > >>> lies > >>>> to > >>>>>>>> the boy and tells him that he is the boy's father, and they > >> embrace. > >>>> But > >>>>>>>> the boy questions this and he reasserts his claim and the boy > >>> accepts > >>>>>>>> this. > >>>>>>>> The man is able to define a new meaning for his life; he has done > >>> this > >>>>>>>> autonomously without the help of a therapist, but he still needs > >>>>>>>> another, > >>>>>>>> the boy, to embody that meaning. But he knows it is his own > >>> invention. > >>>>>>>> The > >>>>>>>> boy on the other hand has to be made to believe it is true; he is > >>> not > >>>>>>>> sufficiently mature to manufacture this meaning himself, but as a > >>>> child > >>>>>>>> he > >>>>>>>> can be guided by an adult. As you say, Marc, it is very > >> significant > >>>> when > >>>>>>>> Sokolov tells us how he is now, again, worried about his own > >> death. > >>>>>>>> What if > >>>>>>>> I died in my sleep? that would be a shock for my son! > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> For me, this reflection causes me to look back on the man's whole > >>>>>>>> struggle > >>>>>>>> during the war: in the first phase he does not differentiate > >> between > >>>> his > >>>>>>>> life as a father and husband and his life as a Soviet citizen - > >> war > >>> is > >>>>>>>> his > >>>>>>>> duty and he is confident, as is everyone else, of victory. His > >>> bravery > >>>>>>>> in > >>>>>>>> driving his truck to the front line under fire reflects the fact > >>> that > >>>> he > >>>>>>>> has never imagined his own death. Then he finds himself prostrate > >>>>>>>> before 2 > >>>>>>>> Nazi soldiers who we assume are going among the wounded shooting > >>>> anyone > >>>>>>>> who > >>>>>>>> has survived. But surprisingly, he is allowed to live, but is to > >> be > >>>>>>>> used as > >>>>>>>> a slave. Sokolov has been confronted by his own mortality for the > >>>> first > >>>>>>>> time and he chooses life, but accepts slavery (Sartre and Hegel > >> both > >>>>>>>> thematize this moment in their philosophy). In this second phase > >> of > >>>>>>>> Sokolov's life he is a survivor. Everything hinges on surviving > >> and > >>>>>>>> returning to his wife and family. As you point out, Marc, his > >> later > >>>>>>>> reflections on this are particularly poignant, when he discovers > >> the > >>>>>>>> futility of this hope. Eventually, the life of forced labour > >> becomes > >>>>>>>> unbearable. He cries out: "Why are we forced to dig 3 cubic metres > >>>> when > >>>>>>>> 1 > >>>>>>>> cubic meter is enough for a grave!" Sokolov has accepted and > >>> embraced > >>>>>>>> death > >>>>>>>> after all. (Transition to the third phase.) To his German masters > >>> this > >>>>>>>> is > >>>>>>>> an unendurable act of defiance. As David points out, there are > >> flaws > >>>> in > >>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>> scene which follows, but ... he confronts his own death defiantly, > >>>>>>>> stares > >>>>>>>> it in the eye, spits on it, and his life again gains meaning as a > >>>> "brave > >>>>>>>> Soviet soldier" unafraid of death even in such an impossible > >> moment. > >>>> Not > >>>>>>>> only does he survive, but takes the Nazi Colonel prisoner and > >> hands > >>>> the > >>>>>>>> war > >>>>>>>> plans over to the Red Army. Now, when he is offered the chance to > >>>>>>>> return to > >>>>>>>> his wife as a war hero he declines and asks to be sent back to the > >>>>>>>> front. > >>>>>>>> His life has adopted this new meaning which casts his life as a > >>> father > >>>>>>>> into > >>>>>>>> the shade. He no longer fears death. But he is persuaded to take > >>> time > >>>>>>>> off > >>>>>>>> and learns of the death of his family. As Marc relates, the > >>> continued > >>>>>>>> survival of his son, who is now also a war hero, provides > >> continued > >>>>>>>> meaning > >>>>>>>> and integrates the two themes in his life. This takes work, as > >> Marc > >>>>>>>> points > >>>>>>>> out, and he has the assistance of an older man, in achieving this > >>>>>>>> redefinition of his life. But tragically, with the death of his > >> son > >>>>>>>> (and NB > >>>>>>>> the end of the war, albeit in victory) his life is again without > >>>>>>>> meaning. > >>>>>>>> Fourth phase. He has survived, but has no purpose. By becoming a > >>>> father > >>>>>>>> again (Fifth phase), he regains the fear of death and meaning in > >> his > >>>>>>>> life. > >>>>>>>> It is real work, and we witness this psychological turmoil as he > >>> copes > >>>>>>>> with > >>>>>>>> the idea that this scruffy orphan boy could be a son to him, and > >>>>>>>> eventually > >>>>>>>> he manages it. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> The transition between each phase is a critical period during > >> which > >>>>>>>> Sokolov's personality is transformed. Note also, that there is a > >>>>>>>> premonition of this perezhivanie in Sokolov's earlier life: his > >>> family > >>>>>>>> is > >>>>>>>> wiped out in the Civil War and the famine of 1922, then he meets > >> his > >>>>>>>> wife-to-be, also raised in an orphanage, and they together create > >> a > >>>> life > >>>>>>>> and have 17 happy years before the Nazi invasion intrudes. So from > >>> the > >>>>>>>> beginning of the movie we are introduced to the main theme. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> These are the main moments in the movie, which caused me to select > >>> it > >>>>>>>> for > >>>>>>>> discussion rather than any other movie. Also, there is no doubt > >> that > >>>> in > >>>>>>>> producing this movie in 1958 the Soviet government was engaged > >> with > >>>> its > >>>>>>>> people, in a process of collective perezhivanie and by reflecting > >> on > >>>> the > >>>>>>>> collective perezhivanie during the period of the war, before and > >>>> after, > >>>>>>>> they aim to assist the people in collectively assigning meaning to > >>>> this > >>>>>>>> terrible suffering and like the man and his "son" walking again > >> into > >>>> the > >>>>>>>> future. As a propaganda movie, of course, it is open to much > >>>> criticism, > >>>>>>>> but > >>>>>>>> that is hardly the point. I appreciate Marc's analysis in terms of > >>> the > >>>>>>>> other concepts he has introduced. I wouldn't mind a recap on > >> these. > >>> In > >>>>>>>> terms of Vasilyuk's concepts, Sokolov's life-world is *simple and > >>>>>>>> difficult*. The boy's life world is *simple and easy*. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Can we continue to discuss "Fate of a Man", while I open another > >>> movie > >>>>>>>> for > >>>>>>>> analysis? I think there are at least 10 subscribers to this list > >> who > >>>>>>>> have > >>>>>>>> published in learned journals on the topic of perezhivanie in > >>>> childhood. > >>>>>>>> Perhaps one of you would like to reflect on the boy's > >> perezhivanija? > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Andy > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ > >>>>>>>> Andy Blunden > >>>>>>>> http://home.mira.net/~andy > >>>>>>>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective- > >>> decision-making > >>>>>>>> On 18/01/2017 5:14 AM, Marc Clar? wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Hi, all, > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> and thank you, Andy, for sharing this amazing film, which I > >> didn't > >>>>>>>>> know. I > >>>>>>>>> think it will be very useful to share and discuss our respective > >>>> views > >>>>>>>>> on > >>>>>>>>> perezhivanie. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> In my view, the film could be analyzed in terms of perezhivanie > >> in > >>>>>>>>> three > >>>>>>>>> different planes. First, we could consider the person who watches > >>> the > >>>>>>>>> film, > >>>>>>>>> and we could study how the meaning she forms for the film > >>>> restructures > >>>>>>>>> her > >>>>>>>>> relationship with aspects of her real life -such as, for example, > >>> her > >>>>>>>>> own > >>>>>>>>> death or the death of a beloved one, etc. (perhaps this is a > >> little > >>>> bit > >>>>>>>>> like what Beth and Monica, or Veresov and Fleer, do with their > >>> study > >>>> of > >>>>>>>>> playworlds?). In this plane, which would be perhaps the most > >>>>>>>>> naturalistic > >>>>>>>>> one, the film could be studied as an human-made cultural artifact > >>>> which > >>>>>>>>> restuctures psychological functions; here, the meaning formed for > >>> the > >>>>>>>>> film > >>>>>>>>> by who watches it and uses it as mediator in her relation to her > >>> real > >>>>>>>>> life > >>>>>>>>> would be an m-perezhivanie. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> In a second plane, we could proceed as if the film was real life, > >>> and > >>>>>>>>> we > >>>>>>>>> could consider Sokolov telling his story to the man he meets by > >> the > >>>>>>>>> river > >>>>>>>>> (a little bit like Carla telling her story to me). In this plane, > >>>>>>>>> Sokolov's > >>>>>>>>> narrative (i.e., what is showed to us as narrated flashback) > >> could > >>> be > >>>>>>>>> considered as a cultural artifact that Sokolov uses to relate to > >>> all > >>>>>>>>> what > >>>>>>>>> happened to him. At this plane, the meaning of this narrative > >> would > >>>> be > >>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>> m-perezhivanie that, in that moment, mediates the relationship > >>>> between > >>>>>>>>> Sokolov and the war events he experienced years ago (but these > >>> events > >>>>>>>>> are > >>>>>>>>> still very present to him, so although relating to past events, > >>> there > >>>>>>>>> is > >>>>>>>>> here a Sokolov's activity [towards the past war events] which is > >> in > >>>>>>>>> present > >>>>>>>>> -this echoes Christopher when, within our conversations, said: > >>> ?Part > >>>> of > >>>>>>>>> this might also be a question of what it means to describe and > >>>>>>>>> represent > >>>>>>>>> one's own perezhivanie figuratively/narratively (whether to > >> others, > >>>> or > >>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>> oneself), as opposed to living that perezhivanie. Especially if > >> the > >>>>>>>>> attempt > >>>>>>>>> to capture/represent one's own perezhivanie is, perhaps, also > >>> central > >>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>> the living of it?? > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> In a third plane, we could proceed as if Sokolov's narration was > >>> not > >>>> a > >>>>>>>>> retrospective narration, but the on-time sequence of events with > >>>>>>>>> on-time > >>>>>>>>> Sokolov's explanation of these events (in the moments in which > >> the > >>>>>>>>> narrator > >>>>>>>>> voice is assumed within the flashback). In this plane, there are > >>>>>>>>> several > >>>>>>>>> interesting perezhivanie phenomena. Clearly, there is a Sokolov's > >>>>>>>>> activity > >>>>>>>>> of experiencing-as-struggle, which initiates when he realizes > >> that > >>>> all > >>>>>>>>> his > >>>>>>>>> family, except one son, had been killed 2 years ago. At this > >>> moment, > >>>>>>>>> his > >>>>>>>>> life becomes meaningless; the meaning (m-perezhivanie) he uses to > >>>>>>>>> relate > >>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>> all his life (including the past) at this moment is expressed in > >>> his > >>>>>>>>> conversation with his oncle: ?it's got to be that this life of > >> mine > >>>> is > >>>>>>>>> nothing but a nightmare!?. In this moment, Sokolov's past in the > >>>>>>>>> prision > >>>>>>>>> camp becomes also meaningless: then, his link to life (the > >>>>>>>>> m-perezhivanie > >>>>>>>>> that made being alive meaningful to him) was meeting his family; > >>> but > >>>> at > >>>>>>>>> that time his family was already dead, so when he discovers it, > >> he > >>>>>>>>> realizes > >>>>>>>>> that this m-perezhivanie (the idea of meeting his family) was > >>> linking > >>>>>>>>> him > >>>>>>>>> to death, not to life, so all his efforts to surviving become > >>>>>>>>> meaningless: > >>>>>>>>> ?Every night, when I was a prisioner, I talked with them. Now it > >>>> turns > >>>>>>>>> out > >>>>>>>>> that for two years I was talking with the dead??. In this > >>>> conversation, > >>>>>>>>> however, his oncle offers him an alternative m-perezhivanie to > >>> relate > >>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>> his life: he still has a son, so the m-perehivanie of meeting his > >>>>>>>>> family > >>>>>>>>> can still turns Sokolov's life meaningful: ?you've got to go on > >>>> living. > >>>>>>>>> You > >>>>>>>>> have to find Anatoly. When the war is over, your son will get > >>>> married, > >>>>>>>>> you > >>>>>>>>> will live with them. You will take up your carpentry again, play > >>> with > >>>>>>>>> your > >>>>>>>>> grandkids?. It takes some time to Sokolov to enter into this > >>>>>>>>> m-perezhivanie, but he does it and his life becomes meaningful > >>> again: > >>>>>>>>> ?and > >>>>>>>>> then, unexpectedly, I've got a gleam of sunlight?. But, then, > >>> Anatoly > >>>>>>>>> also > >>>>>>>>> dies. How to keep living? Here, Sokolov holds the m-perezhivanie > >>> that > >>>>>>>>> linked him to life until that moment, and therefore, he needs a > >>> son; > >>>>>>>>> pretending being the father of Vanya turns his life meaningful > >>> again. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Another interesting thing, still at that level, is how Sokolov's > >>>>>>>>> relation > >>>>>>>>> with his own immediate death changes along the different > >> occasions > >>> in > >>>>>>>>> which > >>>>>>>>> he faces it. I thing here there are examples of > >>>>>>>>> experiencing-as-contemplation -in my view, this is not > >>>>>>>>> experiencing-as-struggle because the situation of impossibility > >>> (the > >>>>>>>>> immediate death) is removed existentially (Sokolov's life is > >> given > >>>>>>>>> back to > >>>>>>>>> him), so that there is not a permanent situation of impossibility > >>>>>>>>> which is > >>>>>>>>> initially meaningless and is turned into meaningful. In each > >>> occasion > >>>>>>>>> in > >>>>>>>>> which Sokolov is faced with his immediate death, the > >> m-perezhivanie > >>>>>>>>> that > >>>>>>>>> mediates this relationship is different. When he is captured, his > >>>>>>>>> m-perezhivanie is expressed as: ?here's my death coming after > >> me?. > >>>>>>>>> When he > >>>>>>>>> is conducted to meet the nazi official, the m-perezhivanie is > >>>> expressed > >>>>>>>>> as: > >>>>>>>>> ?the end of your misery?, ?to my death and my release of this > >>>> torment, > >>>>>>>>> I > >>>>>>>>> will drink?. In the first, the death is running after Sokolov; in > >>> the > >>>>>>>>> second, it is Sokolov happily going to meet death. Later, at the > >>> end > >>>> of > >>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>> film, he faces his immediate death again, and the m-perezhivanie > >> is > >>>>>>>>> expressed as: ?I'm really worried that I might die in my sleep, > >> and > >>>>>>>>> that > >>>>>>>>> would frighten my little son?. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Well, just some thoughts after watching this wonderful film. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Best regards, > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Marc. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> 2017-01-15 0:06 GMT+01:00 Christopher Schuck < > >>>> schuckcschuck@gmail.com > >>>>>>>>>> : > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Yes, definitely that article! And specifically, when I used > >>>> "pivoting" > >>>>>>>>> I > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> couldn't help but think of Beth's earlier example about how a > >>> child > >>>>>>>>>> will > >>>>>>>>>> use a stick as a pivot for a horse. Perhaps a somewhat different > >>>>>>>>>> application but related, no? > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 4:06 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > >>>>>>>>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no > >>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Chris, all, > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> your post is totally relevant to Beth's and Monica's article in > >>> the > >>>>>>>>>>> special issue. They write about film and perezhivanie (quoting > >>>>>>>>>>> Sobchack) > >>>>>>>>>>> the following: > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> The reason that film allows us to glimpse the future is that > >>> there > >>>>>>>>>>> is a > >>>>>>>>>>> connection between filmic time and ?real? time: ?The images of > >> a > >>>> film > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> exist > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> in the world as a temporal flow, within finitude and situation. > >>>>>>>>>>> Indeed, > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> fascination of the film is that it does not transcend our > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> lived-experience > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> of temporality, but rather that it seems to partake of it, to > >>> share > >>>>>>>>>>> it? > >>>>>>>>>>> (1992, p. 60). > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> And later > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> "Specifically, the way that the flow of time becomes > >>>>>>>>>>> multidirectional is > >>>>>>>>>>> that ?rehearsals make it necessary to think of the future in > >>> such a > >>>>>>>>>>> way > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> as > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> to create a past? (1985, p. 39). As Schechner ex-plains: ?In a > >>> very > >>>>>>>>>>> real > >>>>>>>>>>> way the future ? the project coming into existence through the > >>>>>>>>>>> process > >>>>>>>>>>> of > >>>>>>>>>>> rehearsal ? determines the past: what will be kept from earlier > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> rehearsals > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> or from the ?source ma-terials? (1985, p. 39)." > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Alfredo > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> du> > >>>>>>>>>>> on behalf of Christopher Schuck > >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: 14 January 2017 21:43 > >>>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fate of a Man > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> But that's both the limitation and strength of art or fictional > >>>>>>>>>>> narrative > >>>>>>>>>>> as opposed to real life, isn't it? That art focuses our > >> attention > >>>> and > >>>>>>>>>>> highlights certain features in a way that is idealized and > >>>>>>>>>>> artificially > >>>>>>>>>>> "designed" to convey something more clearly and purely (but > >> less > >>>>>>>>>>> organically and authentically) than it would be conveyed in the > >>>>>>>>>>> course > >>>>>>>>>>> of > >>>>>>>>>>> living it, or observing someone else living it? One way to get > >>>> around > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> this > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> would be, as David says, to analyze the film in terms of clues > >> as > >>> to > >>>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>> stages of emergence. But maybe another way to use the film > >> would > >>> be > >>>>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> view > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> it not so much as a complete, self-sufficient "example" of > >>>>>>>>>>> perezhivanie, > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> as > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> a *tool *for pivoting back and forth between the concept of > >>>>>>>>>>> perezhivanie > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> as > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> imaginatively constructed (through fiction), and the concept of > >>>>>>>>>>> perezhivanie as imaginatively constructed (through our real > >>> living > >>>>>>>>>>> experience and observation of it). So, it would be the > >> *pivoting* > >>>>>>>>>>> between > >>>>>>>>>>> these two manifestations of the concept (designed vs. evolved, > >> as > >>>>>>>>>>> David > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> put > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> it) that reveals new insights about perezhivanie, rather than > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> understanding > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> the concept from the film per se. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 3:08 PM, David Kellogg < > >>>> dkellogg60@gmail.com > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> I think there's a good reason why Andy started a new thread on > >>>> this: > >>>>>>>>>>> he's a > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> very tidy thinker (quite unlike yours truly) and he knows that > >>> one > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> reason > >>>>>>>>>>> why xmca threads are seldom cumulative is that they digress to > >>>>>>>>>>> related > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> problems without solving the immmediate ones. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, of course, a film allows us to consider an example of > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> "perezhivanie", > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> but it is a designed perezhivanie rather than an evolved one; > >> it > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't > >>>>>>>>>>> explicitly display the various stages of emergence required > >> for a > >>>>>>>>>>> genetic > >>>>>>>>>>> analysis, unless we analyze it not as a complete and finished > >>> work > >>>> of > >>>>>>>>>>> art > >>>>>>>>>>> but instead for clues as to the stages of its creation (the way > >>>> that, > >>>>>>>>>>> for > >>>>>>>>>>> example, "Quietly Flows the Don" was analyzed to determine its > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> authenticity). > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I remember that In the original short story, the schnapps > >>> drinking > >>>>>>>>>>>> scene seemed like pure sleight of hand: an artistically > >>> gratuitous > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> example > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> of what eventually gave Soviet social realism such a bad name. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> David Kellogg > >>>>>>>>>>>> Macquarie University > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 10:04 PM, Carol Macdonald < > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> carolmacdon@gmail.com > >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Fellow XMCa-ers > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I have watched it through now, thank you Andy, but right now > >>> only > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> empirical > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> psychological categories come to mind. I will watch it again > >>> and > >>>> in > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>> meanwhile let my fellows with more recent experience of > >>>>>>>>>>>> /perezhivanie/ > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> take > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> the discussion further. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> It is a kind of timeless story, and modern film techniques > >>> would > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> perhaps > >>>>>>>>>>>> be > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> more explicit. At the least I would say it has for me a > >> Russian > >>>>>>>>>>>>> understanding of suffering, perhaps because of their unique > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> experience > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> of > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> it. But having said that, WWII must have generated other > >> similar > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> experiences, apart from the first part about Andrei's family > >>>> dying > >>>>>>>>>>>>> in > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>> famine. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Carol > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 14 January 2017 at 02:15, Andy Blunden >>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I watched it in two parts with subtitles: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16w7fg_destiny-of-a-man- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1959-pt-1_creation > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16wat4_destiny-of-a-man- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1959-pt-2_creation > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Andy > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ > >> ------------------------------ > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Andy Blunden > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://home.mira.net/~andy > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> decision-making > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On 14/01/2017 2:35 AM, Beth Ferholt wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for taking us to a shared example. I think that > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> having a > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Carol A Macdonald Ph.D (Edin) > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Cultural Historical Activity Theory > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Honorary Research Fellow: Department of Linguistics, Unisa > >>>>>>>>>>>>> alternative email address: tmacdoca@unisa.ac.za > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Beth Ferholt > >>>> Assistant Professor > >>>> Department of Early Childhood and Art Education > >>>> Brooklyn College, City University of New York > >>>> 2900 Bedford Avenue > >>>> Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 > >>>> > >>>> Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu > >>>> Phone: (718) 951-5205 > >>>> Fax: (718) 951-4816 > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Robert Lake Ed.D. > >>> Associate Professor > >>> Social Foundations of Education > >>> Dept. of Curriculum, Foundations, and Reading > >>> Georgia Southern University > >>> P. O. Box 8144, Statesboro, GA 30460 > >>> Secretary/Treasurer-AERA- Paulo Freire Special Interest Group > >>> Webpage: https://georgiasouthern.academia.edu/RobertLake*Those who > have > >>> never despaired have neither lived nor loved. Hope is inseparable from > >>> despair. Those of us who truly hope make despair a constant companion > >> whom > >>> we outwrestle every day owing to our commitment to justice, love, and > >>> hope* ( > >>> Cornel West, 2008, p. 185). > >>> > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Beth Ferholt > > Assistant Professor > > Department of Early Childhood and Art Education > > Brooklyn College, City University of New York > > 2900 Bedford Avenue > > Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 > > > > Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu > > Phone: (718) 951-5205 > > Fax: (718) 951-4816 > > > -- Beth Ferholt Assistant Professor Department of Early Childhood and Art Education Brooklyn College, City University of New York 2900 Bedford Avenue Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu Phone: (718) 951-5205 Fax: (718) 951-4816 From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Thu Feb 9 21:25:06 2017 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 05:25:06 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fate of a Man In-Reply-To: References: <048522a2-cca0-3e56-cae2-f2142b9fbd5a@mira.net> <1484427999407.2877@iped.uio.no> <2270f5e7-7d82-5150-89a3-808a4e20b89b@mira.net> <9B8D2964-0926-4976-91F2-CDD51E50A6F5@gmail.com> <589ce1e1.4613620a.7f22b.4034@mx.google.com> , Message-ID: <1486704305436.37889@iped.uio.no> Beth, I remember those spirals before sleeping too; I had exactly the same! And for the meta and children, play itself is meta, as Bateson shows discussing 'the message this is play'. (my two cents, not much time this week) Alfredo ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Beth Ferholt Sent: 10 February 2017 05:13 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fate of a Man I am not well enough read to respond to these recent posts but was very interested to talk more about "meta". I have, since I began teaching preschool, thought that the feeling of a "spiral of consciousness" -- is that my own term or from someone else? -- what I mean is when you are stopped in your tracks by a sensation that you are walking above layers of time in one place, or even that you are floating above your self as your mind races in every widening spirals ... that this sensation was familiar because I had felt it often in childhood. I connected it to young children's love of repetition and ritual. I often felt, as a teacher, that the children in my class were walking a bit above the ground most of the time. They appeared to be touching the floor or the asphalt but they were not, usually. This became clear in the misunderstandings between adults and children that make up the life of the preschool (sort of like the one I mentioned above, between me and Mike, but so much larger) -- but I also have some earliest memories of seeing things repeatedly growing and shrinking in a spiral rhythm as I would try to sleep. That is my two cents of response : ) : That something of the nested dolls, or the liar paradox (Hofstadter, 1979 is where I heard that -- Epidemenides/liar paradox), is essential to perezhivaie ... not just a repetition. Beth Beth On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 5:14 PM, Wolff-Michael Roth < wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com> wrote: > Responding to Robert's invitation, > > My book title is not going meta. Instead, it goes to the very hard of > mathematical praxis. What is it that allows a mathematician to see in the > moves of another a typical mathematical move rather than the move of > another. What is it in the doing that makes it mathematical rather > scientific, commonsense, chemical... And the book is concerned with showing > the sociogenesis of the mathematics of mathematics, the origin of > mathematical reasoning AS social relation (more accurately, because of the > ideality of mathematics, a societal relation---see Il'enkov, the ideal, the > general [obshee]). > > For the remainder of the paragraphs of the unsigned message, I do not > understand a thing. I thought I understood Heidegger a bit, have read many > of his works many times. But I do not see how anything in these paragraphs > arises out of the thinking of Heidegger, or anyone else who took up and > developed the philosopher's thinking, like Derrida or Nancy . . . > > Michael > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > -------------------- > Wolff-Michael Roth, Lansdowne Professor > Applied Cognitive Science > MacLaurin Building A567 > University of Victoria > Victoria, BC, V8P 5C2 > http://web.uvic.ca/~mroth > > New book: *The Mathematics of Mathematics > directions-in-mathematics-and-science-education/the- > mathematics-of-mathematics/>* > > On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 1:50 PM, Robert Lake > wrote: > > > For meta question I defer to Professor Roth himself. > > (Included in this email). > > Robert > > > > On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 4:40 PM, wrote: > > > > > Beth, Robert, and the others forming a ?(we)?. > > > > > > Beth said it is the ?()? within the ?()? that interests her [as being]. > > > Maybe Framing is ALL communication, ALL thought, ALL consciousness .... > > > Bateson?.... but Beth thinks we need to tackle framing head on [face > > into] > > > when discussing perezhivanie. > > > > > > Now I noticed that Wolff-Michael Roth included in the title of his book > > > the phrase ? mathematics of mathematics - and my mind wondered to > > > conjecture if this is going ?meta? and if ?()? is also going ?meta?. > > > > > > Could Beth?s ?()? as symbolic also have another aspect [or side] that > is > > > () = bracket and the doubling ?()? = bracketing the bracket. These > > moves > > > as examples of going ?meta? which also plays with saying/not saying or > > > revealing/concealing that Ed Wall recently posted when he said: > > > The truth of the proposition, in effect, resides in the possibility of > > > bringing its referents into the light (here is where aletheia takes a > > > part); I.e. uncovering. That is, on the LEVEL of ?apophantic as? things > > are > > > propositionally either true or false, but on the LEVEL of the > > ?hermeneutic > > > as? they are neither. > > > > > > However, the ?apophantic as? IS (its being) grounded in interpretation, > > > I.e. the ?hermeneutic as? (its being). For Heidegger (and this is an > > > oversimplification) ?hermeneutic truth? IS in effect (in use) > DISclosure. > > > ..... complicated because if one surfaces [metaphor of LEVELS] to the > > > apophantic then, in effect (in use) there is a covering back up > > > (closure).... Also, and this is most important, the consequent would > not > > be > > > an understanding of Trump?s speech, but an understanding (interpreting) > > of > > > how ?(I)? understand (interpret) Trump?s speech. > > > > > > I am travelling back and forth exploring saying as () generating > effects > > > IN USE, and then doubling back and exploring the () generating effects > IN > > > USE through ?()? interpretation of the uses. To go hear would have to > > > bring in Umberto Eco who pleads for us to make a distinction between > > ?use? > > > and ?interpretation? AS aspects of semiosis and semiotic but this is > for > > > another turn. > > > > > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > > > > > From: Beth Ferholt > > > Sent: February 5, 2017 6:38 PM > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fate of a Man > > > > > > Thanks for the calling out to Monica and me, Mike and Andy -- I had to > > stop > > > checking XMCA for a couple of weeks so I did not see the discussion or > > your > > > notes to me in the chain, until today. One of the the strengths of > XMCA > > is > > > that it creates a conversation that can include people who can not > > always? > > > respond that very day, or even week, due to various forms of > > interruption! > > > Often these "interruptions" are children or political events, which > canY > > > help us to understand perezhivanie. > > > > > > As well as spending time at JFK, recently, many of us here in New York > > have > > > been attending local protests to keep our neighborhoods feeling safe > for > > > everyone. I live in a neighborhood in Brooklyn that includes several > > > Muslim communities and several Jewish communities (as well as a few > > Russian > > > and Polish communities), and at the local protests these past few weeks > > > some people have had photographs of their family members who were > killed > > by > > > the Nazis attached to the back of their "never again" signs. Also we > all, > > > Muslim, Jewish, etc. families, have been often bringing our children > to > > > the protests. > > > > > > So I have been thinking a lot about children and hope, during the past > > few > > > weeks. It is within this frame that I saw this film. I think the film > > was > > > expecting us to see the child as only benefitting from the main > > character's > > > lying, saying that he was the child's father, and of course the child > did > > > benefit, but I think that perezhivanie is about truth, somehow, > although > > I > > > am not sure how. > > > > > > My second thought is that Manchester by the Sea must have been > > referencing > > > this film, with its return-to-the-space-where-the-house-was scene, and > > > also > > > with the choice to replace the lost self (as father) / family or no. I > > > think it might help this conversation if we all saw both films, > actually. > > > Two thoughts on this methods suggestion for our conversation, before I > > > return to the topic itself. > > > > > > 1) It is odd how closely the two films are related, as I did not know > > that > > > the two films were related when I told Chris to see Manchester by the > Sea > > > in relation to thinking about perezhivanie. I told Chris when I saw > him > > in > > > person, and I think that discussions about perezhivanie are often > > different > > > in person. We learned at LCHC in the 2004/5 playworld projects that > > these > > > in person discussions about perezhivanie have a pronounced proleptic > > > structure, mirroring the topic of study, such that the conclusion of > the > > > discussion appears at the start: It feels like magic is happening. (I > > > think this has something to do with how good teachers see the things in > > > their classroom that are useful or no before they happen or "behind > their > > > heads" ... when you are very present you have this "sixth sense," which > > is > > > really an experience of time moving in two directions at once ... being > > > very present can often require a lot of in person time and being with > > > children speeds up the process.) > > > > > > 2) It is a strength that the XMCA conversations can continue through > all > > of > > > our different schedules. It is a negative that they are not in person, > > and > > > seeing films together can really help. This is where we went on the > > > perezhivanie facebook page when it was briefly in English and in > Russian > > -- > > > with a film, and it was very helpful. (Of course I am thinking of this > > > while considering the changing role and form of LCHC and Mike's > > > participation in LCHC and XMCA. I am thinking of the mistakes that are > > > communication. A story about this that I thought of recently, which > > shows > > > this point well, and seems worth retelling BECAUSE when studying > > > perezhivanie the form is often (always??) the study of the content: As > a > > > newish graduate student Mike once said "thank you" to me when I made a > > > comment in the afternoon about an AM conversation that day. Mike's > > "thank > > > you" encouraged me to pay extra attention to this comment/thought of > > mine, > > > which later became important in our analysis of a difficult-to-decipher > > > playworld event. I was thinking of this event as I walked and talked > > with > > > a doctoral student of my own -- I seem to have a heavily spacial memory > > > process and my student and I were walking through a doorway -- and I > > > suddenly realized that Mike could have been thanking me for holding the > > > door for him at this time in the past when his feedback was so > important > > to > > > me ... maybe he did not hear my comment, but just thanked me for > holding > > > the door ... in fact it now appears to me that this was probably the > > case!) > > > > > > The interesting thing to me about the above 2 points is the framing. > It > > IS > > > the "()" within the "()" that interests me. Maybe Framing is all > > > communication or all thought or consciousness ... Bateson? ... but I > > think > > > we need to tackle framing head on when discussing perezhivanie. The > two > > > films are very different in regards to framing, I think this is why > they > > > are most interesting to think about together, but first I have two > > > citations for thinking about time that I use frequently in my writing > on > > > perezhivanie. > > > > > > These seem worth repeating here, as this thinking about time in > > space/time > > > seems to me to be thinking about framing ... the "()" makes us double > > back > > > in time as we read -- : > > > > > > (As to Performance, Alfredo copied the Schechner quote above.) > > > > > > Dewey's relation of the notion of object to prolepsis (on XMCA): > > > Mike (2007) used the term ?temporally double sided? to describe this > > > phenomenon of growing back and towards the future and the past > > > simultaneously. > > > > > > What I am (still) thinking about, now, most often: > > > It is the juxtaposition of temporal double sidedness with stages that > > > creates perezhivanie. What Schechner argues is that this juxtaposition > > > provides the rhythm that allows us to raise ourselves up and hover, > > > suspended momentarily in a state of being simultaneously ourselves and > > not > > > ourselves: our past and future selves (someone else). > > > > > > So my first point is about framing and my second is about children. > The > > > Fate Of Man is all about the frames / "()". The stories are nested > within > > > eachother, repeating themselves, maybe even sort of like a fractal, or > > > anyhow a spiral? I have some congenital prosopagnosia, getting worse > as > > I > > > age and definitely bad with a film like this. I kept thinking we were > > back > > > at the ferry as the form of the conversation and context images > repeated > > > themselves, as I could not recognize the face of the character who was > > the > > > audience for our hero's story! Manchester by the Sea, on the other > hand, > > > had no frames. We just jumped right in and rode it through. I only saw > > > Manchester once but do others think this is true? relevant? > > > > > > I think that the question of children's position in relation to adult > > > perezhivanie is central in both of these films. The children in both of > > > these films appear to want the main characters to try again at being > > > fathers. This is a critique of films about children -- I can not think > > of > > > the name of the person who made this critique, but I can find it for > > anyone > > > if needed -- : We adults often make films not about children but about > > our > > > own childhoods. We make films about children who are no longer with > us. > > > But is this really best for the films, as films are usually best when > > they > > > are somehow in dialogue with their topic, this is a characteristic of > the > > > medium, no? > > > > > > If you do not have some pretense, some playing again, you can not have > > > perezhivanie. But I think that Fate of Man is not about perezhivanie, > > > although in a different way than Manchester by the Sea is not about > > > perezhivanie. In Manchester by the Sea there is no other with whom to > > > perezhivanie because the main character and his former wife still love > > each > > > other, or at lease he still loves her and she returns enough of the > love > > to > > > keep him loving her, and neither of them can pull the other up because > > they > > > both hit bottom together and in the same story. In Fate of Man there > is > > is > > > no chance for perezhivanie because the other needs to be involved in > some > > > honest way, or there is no dialogue. > > > > > > In Fate of Man the hero seems to me to be playing out his memory in the > > > real world. A child is not an other with whom one can ever > perezhivanie. > > > This is not perezhivanie as there is no real world as a player, and > this > > is > > > why our hero's heart will fail him. He did not reach bottom and then > > start > > > to pull himself up by connecting with another with great bravery. > > Instead, > > > as he says himself, he just snapped -- he is now living in a dream. > > > > > > As Larry put it, above in this chain: "In other words, navigating > through > > > the suffering and existential emptiness is not a hero?s journey." And > > this > > > point is relevant, again, to our method for studying perezhivanie. I > > don't > > > think we can manage this one on our own (XMCA), even as a group that > > allows > > > for conversations over extended time periods. > > > > > > If form and content are related in this process, I'd say that we won't > > > understand this process until we see children as full people. And > > > simultaneously as children. Children have something to tell us about > > this > > > process that no one else can tell us, and they are not going to tell us > > > this in a way that those of us who are researchers/scholars can listen, > > > without the bridge of the teacher voices. How to include these voices > in > > > our research is key. And the answer has something to do with art, as > > well > > > as with time and space. > > > > > > I am going to send this as it is long enough already, and then catch up > > > with the related chains after I do ... And I won't say more now, but I > > > agree with all the people who thought this was a great pick to start > the > > > discussion. Many levels to discuss and I also found many aspects of > the > > > film related to perezhivanie in many ways! Beth > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 11:51 PM, Andy Blunden > > wrote: > > > > > > > How about a documentary movie about the first Trump voter who dies > as a > > > > result of repeal of Obama Care? That would be a perezhivanie within a > > > > perezhivanie! > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > Andy Blunden > > > > http://home.mira.net/~andy > > > > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective- > decision-making > > > > On 21/01/2017 12:03 PM, Helena Worthen wrote: > > > > > > > >> I am late to this discussion, but I have been paying attention. I > was > > > >> reluctant to expose myself to the emotional challenges of the film. > I > > > knew > > > >> that between the majestic music, the stunning black and white > images, > > > the > > > >> beautiful human faces and bodies (and some very ugly ones), and the > > > twists > > > >> of the story, I was going to be deeply moved. However, I have been > > > reading > > > >> two books by Svetlana Alexievich -- Voices from Chernobyl and > > Secondhand > > > >> Time - which tell equally heartbreaking, horrifying stories of > > > suffering. > > > >> Reading her work inclines me to place the film in the context of the > > > period > > > >> of deStalinization after Kruschev's 1956 speech to the 20th Congress > > of > > > the > > > >> CPSU, which gave the signal that it was permissible to begin to talk > > > freely > > > >> about Soviet history. It was a period of trying to build a story > that > > > could > > > >> explain and honor, if not justify, the extreme suffering of the > Soviet > > > >> people. This film seems to me to set out to accomplish that. So does > > > >> Alexievich's book, which is a compilation of interviews done between > > > 1991 > > > >> and 2012, with people who had something to say (good and bad) about > > the > > > >> Soviet regime and the experience of its dissolution. She got the > 2015 > > > Nobel > > > >> Prize for this book. And I sense that Andy, or someone, is > > anticipating > > > >> that the US is going to have to produce some works of scholarship or > > > art, > > > >> or both, that attempt to explain what is happening now here in the > US > > -- > > > >> for example, this afternoon, under President Trump. > > > >> > > > >> Helena Worthen > > > >> helenaworthen@gmail.com > > > >> Vietnam blog: helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > > >> > > > >> On Jan 19, 2017, at 4:00 PM, Christopher Schuck wrote: > > > >> > > > >> For some reason I couldn't see the subtitles showing up in Fate of a > > Man > > > >>> the first time, so I started to watch it dubbed in English instead. > > But > > > >>> the > > > >>> mannered Hollywood accents definitely were not exactly helping to > > > convey > > > >>> the "real Russian soul" Robbins talks about! It felt like I was > being > > > >>> asked > > > >>> to imagine Cary Grant inhabiting Andrei's perezhivanie-ing body. > So, > > I > > > >>> started over with the subtitled version. > > > >>> > > > >>> Here are some quick initial reflections: wonderful movie, and in > > Andrei > > > >>> one > > > >>> of the more memorable characters I have seen. But I also found > myself > > > >>> thinking how big a difference there is between watching a film on > my > > > >>> 12-inch laptop with headphones (my only option at the moment), and > > > >>> sitting > > > >>> back and immersing yourself in a darkened theater or at least on a > > > >>> widescreen TV without any other distractions, allowing ourselves to > > > "fall > > > >>> into this space" by virtue of our very awareness of the illusion > > > >>> generated > > > >>> by the frame, as Beth and Monica put it. This difference becomes > even > > > >>> bigger if the screen you're viewing it on also enables you to > quickly > > > >>> check > > > >>> email from time to time during the movie, as many people do these > > days. > > > >>> If > > > >>> we are to consider the film experience as a model (analogy?) for > > > >>> perezhivanie or even a certain kind of simulation of it, this > effect > > > that > > > >>> occurs when we lose ourselves in a film would be undermined by an > > > >>> especially small frame or poor viewing conditions. At what point > does > > > >>> "the > > > >>> knowledge that the movement we experience is just an illusion" (p. > 2 > > in > > > >>> their article) undermine the perezhivanie-like quality of film as > > > opposed > > > >>> to forming an integral part of it? And, might the way distraction > > > >>> functions > > > >>> to undermine perezhivanie in the context of film in any way mirror > > how > > > we > > > >>> "distract" ourselves in the course of living lives from conscious > > > >>> engagement with the perezhivanie we are otherwise undergoing? Is > > > viewing > > > >>> a > > > >>> film on a 12-inch screen while checking email and calling it an > > > >>> "experience" in any way analogous to the self-deceptions and > escapes > > we > > > >>> engage in during the course of either experience-as-struggle or > > > >>> experience-as-contemplation? I did not check email while watching > > Fate > > > >>> of a > > > >>> Man, by the way. Just in case you're wondering. > > > >>> > > > >>> As for the film itself: I was struck by the incidental way in which > > the > > > >>> earlier loss of his childhood family is introduced and acknowledged > > at > > > >>> the > > > >>> very outset, and how this contrasts with the dramatic ongoing > > > >>> perezhivanie > > > >>> that ensues going forward: it is as if this early loss is "taken > for > > > >>> granted" as also part of the Russian experience. We are not privy > to > > > any > > > >>> perezhivanie he might have presumably undergone before that point; > it > > > is > > > >>> simply not "within the frame." At several points, I was reminded of > > > >>> Satyajit's World of Apu (last movie in his trilogy), where there > was > > > >>> also a > > > >>> set of early losses and a relationship formed with a "son." Have > any > > of > > > >>> you > > > >>> seen it? I think it would also be a good example of perezhivanie. > > > >>> > > > >>> I would not want to overemphasize the use of literary motifs, since > > > >>> Bondarchuk was presumably not making any references to the concept > of > > > >>> perezhivanie as such. But there were several devices that evoked > Beth > > > and > > > >>> Monica's passage from To The Lighthouse ("Time stand still here"), > > and > > > >>> their metaphor of a life (or more specifically, a perezhivanie > > within a > > > >>> life) spiraling back over itself to bring two disparate moments > into > > > >>> juxtaposition in a way such that "your life becomes > three-dimensional > > > >>> again" (p. 2). One occurs in the various scenes when Andrei gazes > up > > at > > > >>> the > > > >>> sky in reverie and all we see are clouds, or the scene where he > lies > > in > > > >>> the > > > >>> grass after his first escape and the camera pans back as it becomes > > > very > > > >>> quiet, leaving nothing but him swallowed up in the vastness of > > nature. > > > >>> There is a certain timeless quality to these scenes, a sense that > he > > is > > > >>> momentarily transcending the linear temporal flow of his life as he > > > >>> either > > > >>> stands outside it and "stands still" in it. It could be a thousand > > > years > > > >>> passing by in those clouds, or just the 17 years of his second > phase; > > > it > > > >>> suddenly doesn't matter. Another thing I noticed was the use of the > > two > > > >>> musical themes: the love song the accordionist plays for him and > > Irina, > > > >>> and > > > >>> the festive music incongruously piped in at the concentration camp > > > during > > > >>> that amazing scene around Part 1, minute 45 where the prisoners are > > > being > > > >>> marched in and the crematorium is going full blast down the road. > At > > > some > > > >>> point (I couldn't relocate it) Andrei has a flashback where he > > revisits > > > >>> the > > > >>> love song and his memories of Irina; then at minute 20 in Part 2, > > while > > > >>> processing his family's death after coming home from the war, he > > finds > > > >>> himself hearing the concentration camp song on the record player > and > > is > > > >>> suddenly transported back to that traumatic experience. Yet he does > > not > > > >>> smash the record right away; he stares at it for a minute, almost > as > > if > > > >>> he > > > >>> is resituating these two moments in relation to each other. > > > >>> > > > >>> Perhaps I am overanalyzing, but I found both these motifs to speak > to > > > >>> Beth > > > >>> and Monica's examples in the way they bring two moments back into > > > contact > > > >>> with each other. > > > >>> > > > >>> Finally, Mike and Andy's discussion in the Misha thread about the > > > >>> watching > > > >>> of a film functioning as perezhivanie for those viewers for whom it > > > >>> reflects and repeats their own experience, raises a question about > > the > > > >>> difference between extended perezhivanie and the personal > > re-enactment > > > of > > > >>> one's perezhivanie within a much smaller time scale (the two or > three > > > >>> hours > > > >>> spent watching the movie). I hope at some point we could delve more > > > into > > > >>> this issue of time frame and time scale in various forms of > > > perezhivanie. > > > >>> > > > >>> Chris > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 8:39 PM, Andy Blunden > > > wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>> Thank you Marc! It was the third "plane" which was my intention in > > > >>>> providing "Fate of a Man" for discussion. You picked out what were > > for > > > >>>> me > > > >>>> also the main (but by no means the only) instances of > perezhivanija > > in > > > >>>> this > > > >>>> movie. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> It seems to me that Sokolov (the author) offers one perezhivanie > in > > > >>>> particular as the main theme of the movie. At the beginning of the > > > >>>> movie, > > > >>>> the man and boy walk up the path to the camera and at the end of > the > > > >>>> movie > > > >>>> they walk off together again. So this is the central theme. As you > > > say, > > > >>>> when Sokolov's family has all been killed, even his talented > > war-hero > > > >>>> son > > > >>>> who was going to be a famous mathematician, his life has become > > > >>>> meaningless. I really liked your reflections of Sokolov's > > reflections > > > >>>> too. > > > >>>> He sees the young orphan boy who, he discovers, has no family and > > > >>>> doesn't > > > >>>> even know what town he comes from, but is aimlessly living on > pieces > > > of > > > >>>> rubbish. He sees that the two of them are in the same situation. > So > > > >>>> after > > > >>>> some time mulling this over a they sit together in the truck, he > > lies > > > to > > > >>>> the boy and tells him that he is the boy's father, and they > embrace. > > > But > > > >>>> the boy questions this and he reasserts his claim and the boy > > accepts > > > >>>> this. > > > >>>> The man is able to define a new meaning for his life; he has done > > this > > > >>>> autonomously without the help of a therapist, but he still needs > > > >>>> another, > > > >>>> the boy, to embody that meaning. But he knows it is his own > > invention. > > > >>>> The > > > >>>> boy on the other hand has to be made to believe it is true; he is > > not > > > >>>> sufficiently mature to manufacture this meaning himself, but as a > > > child > > > >>>> he > > > >>>> can be guided by an adult. As you say, Marc, it is very > significant > > > when > > > >>>> Sokolov tells us how he is now, again, worried about his own > death. > > > >>>> What if > > > >>>> I died in my sleep? that would be a shock for my son! > > > >>>> > > > >>>> For me, this reflection causes me to look back on the man's whole > > > >>>> struggle > > > >>>> during the war: in the first phase he does not differentiate > between > > > his > > > >>>> life as a father and husband and his life as a Soviet citizen - > war > > is > > > >>>> his > > > >>>> duty and he is confident, as is everyone else, of victory. His > > bravery > > > >>>> in > > > >>>> driving his truck to the front line under fire reflects the fact > > that > > > he > > > >>>> has never imagined his own death. Then he finds himself prostrate > > > >>>> before 2 > > > >>>> Nazi soldiers who we assume are going among the wounded shooting > > > anyone > > > >>>> who > > > >>>> has survived. But surprisingly, he is allowed to live, but is to > be > > > >>>> used as > > > >>>> a slave. Sokolov has been confronted by his own mortality for the > > > first > > > >>>> time and he chooses life, but accepts slavery (Sartre and Hegel > both > > > >>>> thematize this moment in their philosophy). In this second phase > of > > > >>>> Sokolov's life he is a survivor. Everything hinges on surviving > and > > > >>>> returning to his wife and family. As you point out, Marc, his > later > > > >>>> reflections on this are particularly poignant, when he discovers > the > > > >>>> futility of this hope. Eventually, the life of forced labour > becomes > > > >>>> unbearable. He cries out: "Why are we forced to dig 3 cubic metres > > > when > > > >>>> 1 > > > >>>> cubic meter is enough for a grave!" Sokolov has accepted and > > embraced > > > >>>> death > > > >>>> after all. (Transition to the third phase.) To his German masters > > this > > > >>>> is > > > >>>> an unendurable act of defiance. As David points out, there are > flaws > > > in > > > >>>> the > > > >>>> scene which follows, but ... he confronts his own death defiantly, > > > >>>> stares > > > >>>> it in the eye, spits on it, and his life again gains meaning as a > > > "brave > > > >>>> Soviet soldier" unafraid of death even in such an impossible > moment. > > > Not > > > >>>> only does he survive, but takes the Nazi Colonel prisoner and > hands > > > the > > > >>>> war > > > >>>> plans over to the Red Army. Now, when he is offered the chance to > > > >>>> return to > > > >>>> his wife as a war hero he declines and asks to be sent back to the > > > >>>> front. > > > >>>> His life has adopted this new meaning which casts his life as a > > father > > > >>>> into > > > >>>> the shade. He no longer fears death. But he is persuaded to take > > time > > > >>>> off > > > >>>> and learns of the death of his family. As Marc relates, the > > continued > > > >>>> survival of his son, who is now also a war hero, provides > continued > > > >>>> meaning > > > >>>> and integrates the two themes in his life. This takes work, as > Marc > > > >>>> points > > > >>>> out, and he has the assistance of an older man, in achieving this > > > >>>> redefinition of his life. But tragically, with the death of his > son > > > >>>> (and NB > > > >>>> the end of the war, albeit in victory) his life is again without > > > >>>> meaning. > > > >>>> Fourth phase. He has survived, but has no purpose. By becoming a > > > father > > > >>>> again (Fifth phase), he regains the fear of death and meaning in > his > > > >>>> life. > > > >>>> It is real work, and we witness this psychological turmoil as he > > copes > > > >>>> with > > > >>>> the idea that this scruffy orphan boy could be a son to him, and > > > >>>> eventually > > > >>>> he manages it. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> The transition between each phase is a critical period during > which > > > >>>> Sokolov's personality is transformed. Note also, that there is a > > > >>>> premonition of this perezhivanie in Sokolov's earlier life: his > > family > > > >>>> is > > > >>>> wiped out in the Civil War and the famine of 1922, then he meets > his > > > >>>> wife-to-be, also raised in an orphanage, and they together create > a > > > life > > > >>>> and have 17 happy years before the Nazi invasion intrudes. So from > > the > > > >>>> beginning of the movie we are introduced to the main theme. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> These are the main moments in the movie, which caused me to select > > it > > > >>>> for > > > >>>> discussion rather than any other movie. Also, there is no doubt > that > > > in > > > >>>> producing this movie in 1958 the Soviet government was engaged > with > > > its > > > >>>> people, in a process of collective perezhivanie and by reflecting > on > > > the > > > >>>> collective perezhivanie during the period of the war, before and > > > after, > > > >>>> they aim to assist the people in collectively assigning meaning to > > > this > > > >>>> terrible suffering and like the man and his "son" walking again > into > > > the > > > >>>> future. As a propaganda movie, of course, it is open to much > > > criticism, > > > >>>> but > > > >>>> that is hardly the point. I appreciate Marc's analysis in terms of > > the > > > >>>> other concepts he has introduced. I wouldn't mind a recap on > these. > > In > > > >>>> terms of Vasilyuk's concepts, Sokolov's life-world is *simple and > > > >>>> difficult*. The boy's life world is *simple and easy*. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Can we continue to discuss "Fate of a Man", while I open another > > movie > > > >>>> for > > > >>>> analysis? I think there are at least 10 subscribers to this list > who > > > >>>> have > > > >>>> published in learned journals on the topic of perezhivanie in > > > childhood. > > > >>>> Perhaps one of you would like to reflect on the boy's > perezhivanija? > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Andy > > > >>>> > > > >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > >>>> Andy Blunden > > > >>>> http://home.mira.net/~andy > > > >>>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective- > > decision-making > > > >>>> On 18/01/2017 5:14 AM, Marc Clar? wrote: > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Hi, all, > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> and thank you, Andy, for sharing this amazing film, which I > didn't > > > >>>>> know. I > > > >>>>> think it will be very useful to share and discuss our respective > > > views > > > >>>>> on > > > >>>>> perezhivanie. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> In my view, the film could be analyzed in terms of perezhivanie > in > > > >>>>> three > > > >>>>> different planes. First, we could consider the person who watches > > the > > > >>>>> film, > > > >>>>> and we could study how the meaning she forms for the film > > > restructures > > > >>>>> her > > > >>>>> relationship with aspects of her real life -such as, for example, > > her > > > >>>>> own > > > >>>>> death or the death of a beloved one, etc. (perhaps this is a > little > > > bit > > > >>>>> like what Beth and Monica, or Veresov and Fleer, do with their > > study > > > of > > > >>>>> playworlds?). In this plane, which would be perhaps the most > > > >>>>> naturalistic > > > >>>>> one, the film could be studied as an human-made cultural artifact > > > which > > > >>>>> restuctures psychological functions; here, the meaning formed for > > the > > > >>>>> film > > > >>>>> by who watches it and uses it as mediator in her relation to her > > real > > > >>>>> life > > > >>>>> would be an m-perezhivanie. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> In a second plane, we could proceed as if the film was real life, > > and > > > >>>>> we > > > >>>>> could consider Sokolov telling his story to the man he meets by > the > > > >>>>> river > > > >>>>> (a little bit like Carla telling her story to me). In this plane, > > > >>>>> Sokolov's > > > >>>>> narrative (i.e., what is showed to us as narrated flashback) > could > > be > > > >>>>> considered as a cultural artifact that Sokolov uses to relate to > > all > > > >>>>> what > > > >>>>> happened to him. At this plane, the meaning of this narrative > would > > > be > > > >>>>> the > > > >>>>> m-perezhivanie that, in that moment, mediates the relationship > > > between > > > >>>>> Sokolov and the war events he experienced years ago (but these > > events > > > >>>>> are > > > >>>>> still very present to him, so although relating to past events, > > there > > > >>>>> is > > > >>>>> here a Sokolov's activity [towards the past war events] which is > in > > > >>>>> present > > > >>>>> -this echoes Christopher when, within our conversations, said: > > ?Part > > > of > > > >>>>> this might also be a question of what it means to describe and > > > >>>>> represent > > > >>>>> one's own perezhivanie figuratively/narratively (whether to > others, > > > or > > > >>>>> to > > > >>>>> oneself), as opposed to living that perezhivanie. Especially if > the > > > >>>>> attempt > > > >>>>> to capture/represent one's own perezhivanie is, perhaps, also > > central > > > >>>>> to > > > >>>>> the living of it?? > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> In a third plane, we could proceed as if Sokolov's narration was > > not > > > a > > > >>>>> retrospective narration, but the on-time sequence of events with > > > >>>>> on-time > > > >>>>> Sokolov's explanation of these events (in the moments in which > the > > > >>>>> narrator > > > >>>>> voice is assumed within the flashback). In this plane, there are > > > >>>>> several > > > >>>>> interesting perezhivanie phenomena. Clearly, there is a Sokolov's > > > >>>>> activity > > > >>>>> of experiencing-as-struggle, which initiates when he realizes > that > > > all > > > >>>>> his > > > >>>>> family, except one son, had been killed 2 years ago. At this > > moment, > > > >>>>> his > > > >>>>> life becomes meaningless; the meaning (m-perezhivanie) he uses to > > > >>>>> relate > > > >>>>> to > > > >>>>> all his life (including the past) at this moment is expressed in > > his > > > >>>>> conversation with his oncle: ?it's got to be that this life of > mine > > > is > > > >>>>> nothing but a nightmare!?. In this moment, Sokolov's past in the > > > >>>>> prision > > > >>>>> camp becomes also meaningless: then, his link to life (the > > > >>>>> m-perezhivanie > > > >>>>> that made being alive meaningful to him) was meeting his family; > > but > > > at > > > >>>>> that time his family was already dead, so when he discovers it, > he > > > >>>>> realizes > > > >>>>> that this m-perezhivanie (the idea of meeting his family) was > > linking > > > >>>>> him > > > >>>>> to death, not to life, so all his efforts to surviving become > > > >>>>> meaningless: > > > >>>>> ?Every night, when I was a prisioner, I talked with them. Now it > > > turns > > > >>>>> out > > > >>>>> that for two years I was talking with the dead??. In this > > > conversation, > > > >>>>> however, his oncle offers him an alternative m-perezhivanie to > > relate > > > >>>>> to > > > >>>>> his life: he still has a son, so the m-perehivanie of meeting his > > > >>>>> family > > > >>>>> can still turns Sokolov's life meaningful: ?you've got to go on > > > living. > > > >>>>> You > > > >>>>> have to find Anatoly. When the war is over, your son will get > > > married, > > > >>>>> you > > > >>>>> will live with them. You will take up your carpentry again, play > > with > > > >>>>> your > > > >>>>> grandkids?. It takes some time to Sokolov to enter into this > > > >>>>> m-perezhivanie, but he does it and his life becomes meaningful > > again: > > > >>>>> ?and > > > >>>>> then, unexpectedly, I've got a gleam of sunlight?. But, then, > > Anatoly > > > >>>>> also > > > >>>>> dies. How to keep living? Here, Sokolov holds the m-perezhivanie > > that > > > >>>>> linked him to life until that moment, and therefore, he needs a > > son; > > > >>>>> pretending being the father of Vanya turns his life meaningful > > again. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Another interesting thing, still at that level, is how Sokolov's > > > >>>>> relation > > > >>>>> with his own immediate death changes along the different > occasions > > in > > > >>>>> which > > > >>>>> he faces it. I thing here there are examples of > > > >>>>> experiencing-as-contemplation -in my view, this is not > > > >>>>> experiencing-as-struggle because the situation of impossibility > > (the > > > >>>>> immediate death) is removed existentially (Sokolov's life is > given > > > >>>>> back to > > > >>>>> him), so that there is not a permanent situation of impossibility > > > >>>>> which is > > > >>>>> initially meaningless and is turned into meaningful. In each > > occasion > > > >>>>> in > > > >>>>> which Sokolov is faced with his immediate death, the > m-perezhivanie > > > >>>>> that > > > >>>>> mediates this relationship is different. When he is captured, his > > > >>>>> m-perezhivanie is expressed as: ?here's my death coming after > me?. > > > >>>>> When he > > > >>>>> is conducted to meet the nazi official, the m-perezhivanie is > > > expressed > > > >>>>> as: > > > >>>>> ?the end of your misery?, ?to my death and my release of this > > > torment, > > > >>>>> I > > > >>>>> will drink?. In the first, the death is running after Sokolov; in > > the > > > >>>>> second, it is Sokolov happily going to meet death. Later, at the > > end > > > of > > > >>>>> the > > > >>>>> film, he faces his immediate death again, and the m-perezhivanie > is > > > >>>>> expressed as: ?I'm really worried that I might die in my sleep, > and > > > >>>>> that > > > >>>>> would frighten my little son?. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Well, just some thoughts after watching this wonderful film. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Best regards, > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Marc. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> 2017-01-15 0:06 GMT+01:00 Christopher Schuck < > > > schuckcschuck@gmail.com > > > >>>>> >: > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Yes, definitely that article! And specifically, when I used > > > "pivoting" > > > >>>>> I > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>>> couldn't help but think of Beth's earlier example about how a > > child > > > >>>>>> will > > > >>>>>> use a stick as a pivot for a horse. Perhaps a somewhat different > > > >>>>>> application but related, no? > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 4:06 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > > > >>>>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no > > > >>>>>> wrote: > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> Chris, all, > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> your post is totally relevant to Beth's and Monica's article in > > the > > > >>>>>>> special issue. They write about film and perezhivanie (quoting > > > >>>>>>> Sobchack) > > > >>>>>>> the following: > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> The reason that film allows us to glimpse the future is that > > there > > > >>>>>>> is a > > > >>>>>>> connection between filmic time and ?real? time: ?The images of > a > > > film > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> exist > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> in the world as a temporal flow, within finitude and situation. > > > >>>>>>> Indeed, > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> the > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> fascination of the film is that it does not transcend our > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> lived-experience > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> of temporality, but rather that it seems to partake of it, to > > share > > > >>>>>>> it? > > > >>>>>>> (1992, p. 60). > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> And later > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> "Specifically, the way that the flow of time becomes > > > >>>>>>> multidirectional is > > > >>>>>>> that ?rehearsals make it necessary to think of the future in > > such a > > > >>>>>>> way > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> as > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> to create a past? (1985, p. 39). As Schechner ex-plains: ?In a > > very > > > >>>>>>> real > > > >>>>>>> way the future ? the project coming into existence through the > > > >>>>>>> process > > > >>>>>>> of > > > >>>>>>> rehearsal ? determines the past: what will be kept from earlier > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> rehearsals > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> or from the ?source ma-terials? (1985, p. 39)." > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> Alfredo > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> ________________________________________ > > > >>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > > >>>>>>> du> > > > >>>>>>> on behalf of Christopher Schuck > > > >>>>>>> Sent: 14 January 2017 21:43 > > > >>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > >>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fate of a Man > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> But that's both the limitation and strength of art or fictional > > > >>>>>>> narrative > > > >>>>>>> as opposed to real life, isn't it? That art focuses our > attention > > > and > > > >>>>>>> highlights certain features in a way that is idealized and > > > >>>>>>> artificially > > > >>>>>>> "designed" to convey something more clearly and purely (but > less > > > >>>>>>> organically and authentically) than it would be conveyed in the > > > >>>>>>> course > > > >>>>>>> of > > > >>>>>>> living it, or observing someone else living it? One way to get > > > around > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> this > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> would be, as David says, to analyze the film in terms of clues > as > > to > > > >>>>>>> the > > > >>>>>>> stages of emergence. But maybe another way to use the film > would > > be > > > >>>>>>> to > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> view > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> it not so much as a complete, self-sufficient "example" of > > > >>>>>>> perezhivanie, > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> as > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> a *tool *for pivoting back and forth between the concept of > > > >>>>>>> perezhivanie > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> as > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> imaginatively constructed (through fiction), and the concept of > > > >>>>>>> perezhivanie as imaginatively constructed (through our real > > living > > > >>>>>>> experience and observation of it). So, it would be the > *pivoting* > > > >>>>>>> between > > > >>>>>>> these two manifestations of the concept (designed vs. evolved, > as > > > >>>>>>> David > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> put > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> it) that reveals new insights about perezhivanie, rather than > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> understanding > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> the concept from the film per se. > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 3:08 PM, David Kellogg < > > > dkellogg60@gmail.com > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> wrote: > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> I think there's a good reason why Andy started a new thread on > > > this: > > > >>>>>>> he's a > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> very tidy thinker (quite unlike yours truly) and he knows that > > one > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> reason > > > >>>>>>> why xmca threads are seldom cumulative is that they digress to > > > >>>>>>> related > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> problems without solving the immmediate ones. > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> Yes, of course, a film allows us to consider an example of > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> "perezhivanie", > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> but it is a designed perezhivanie rather than an evolved one; > it > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> doesn't > > > >>>>>>> explicitly display the various stages of emergence required > for a > > > >>>>>>> genetic > > > >>>>>>> analysis, unless we analyze it not as a complete and finished > > work > > > of > > > >>>>>>> art > > > >>>>>>> but instead for clues as to the stages of its creation (the way > > > that, > > > >>>>>>> for > > > >>>>>>> example, "Quietly Flows the Don" was analyzed to determine its > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> authenticity). > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> I remember that In the original short story, the schnapps > > drinking > > > >>>>>>>> scene seemed like pure sleight of hand: an artistically > > gratuitous > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> example > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> of what eventually gave Soviet social realism such a bad name. > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> David Kellogg > > > >>>>>>>> Macquarie University > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 10:04 PM, Carol Macdonald < > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> carolmacdon@gmail.com > > > >>>>>>> wrote: > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> Fellow XMCa-ers > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> I have watched it through now, thank you Andy, but right now > > only > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> empirical > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> psychological categories come to mind. I will watch it again > > and > > > in > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> the > > > >>>>>>>> meanwhile let my fellows with more recent experience of > > > >>>>>>>> /perezhivanie/ > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> take > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> the discussion further. > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> It is a kind of timeless story, and modern film techniques > > would > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> perhaps > > > >>>>>>>> be > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> more explicit. At the least I would say it has for me a > Russian > > > >>>>>>>>> understanding of suffering, perhaps because of their unique > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> experience > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> of > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> it. But having said that, WWII must have generated other > similar > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> experiences, apart from the first part about Andrei's family > > > dying > > > >>>>>>>>> in > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> the > > > >>>>>>>> famine. > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> Carol > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> On 14 January 2017 at 02:15, Andy Blunden > > > > >>>>>>>>> wrote: > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> I watched it in two parts with subtitles: > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16w7fg_destiny-of-a-man- > > > >>>>>>>>>> 1959-pt-1_creation > > > >>>>>>>>>> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16wat4_destiny-of-a-man- > > > >>>>>>>>>> 1959-pt-2_creation > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Andy > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ > ------------------------------ > > > >>>>>>>>>> Andy Blunden > > > >>>>>>>>>> http://home.mira.net/~andy > > > >>>>>>>>>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective- > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> decision-making > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> On 14/01/2017 2:35 AM, Beth Ferholt wrote: > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> Thank you for taking us to a shared example. I think that > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> having a > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> -- > > > >>>>>>>>> Carol A Macdonald Ph.D (Edin) > > > >>>>>>>>> Cultural Historical Activity Theory > > > >>>>>>>>> Honorary Research Fellow: Department of Linguistics, Unisa > > > >>>>>>>>> alternative email address: tmacdoca@unisa.ac.za > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Beth Ferholt > > > Assistant Professor > > > Department of Early Childhood and Art Education > > > Brooklyn College, City University of New York > > > 2900 Bedford Avenue > > > Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 > > > > > > Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu > > > Phone: (718) 951-5205 > > > Fax: (718) 951-4816 > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Robert Lake Ed.D. > > Associate Professor > > Social Foundations of Education > > Dept. of Curriculum, Foundations, and Reading > > Georgia Southern University > > P. O. Box 8144, Statesboro, GA 30460 > > Secretary/Treasurer-AERA- Paulo Freire Special Interest Group > > Webpage: https://georgiasouthern.academia.edu/RobertLake*Those who have > > never despaired have neither lived nor loved. Hope is inseparable from > > despair. Those of us who truly hope make despair a constant companion > whom > > we outwrestle every day owing to our commitment to justice, love, and > > hope* ( > > Cornel West, 2008, p. 185). > > > -- Beth Ferholt Assistant Professor Department of Early Childhood and Art Education Brooklyn College, City University of New York 2900 Bedford Avenue Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu Phone: (718) 951-5205 Fax: (718) 951-4816 From bferholt@gmail.com Thu Feb 9 21:30:20 2017 From: bferholt@gmail.com (Beth Ferholt) Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 00:30:20 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fate of a Man In-Reply-To: <1486704305436.37889@iped.uio.no> References: <048522a2-cca0-3e56-cae2-f2142b9fbd5a@mira.net> <1484427999407.2877@iped.uio.no> <2270f5e7-7d82-5150-89a3-808a4e20b89b@mira.net> <9B8D2964-0926-4976-91F2-CDD51E50A6F5@gmail.com> <589ce1e1.4613620a.7f22b.4034@mx.google.com> <1486704305436.37889@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: Yes, certainly, but adults play too. Still, yes, this makes a connection with childhood. And I wonder if everyone has that sensation before sleeping in childhood? No real way to know. Curious! Beth On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 12:25 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > Beth, I remember those spirals before sleeping too; I had exactly the > same! And for the meta and children, play itself is meta, as Bateson shows > discussing 'the message this is play'. > > (my two cents, not much time this week) > Alfredo > ________________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Beth Ferholt > Sent: 10 February 2017 05:13 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fate of a Man > > I am not well enough read to respond to these recent posts but was very > interested to talk more about "meta". I have, since I began teaching > preschool, thought that the feeling of a "spiral of consciousness" -- is > that my own term or from someone else? -- what I mean is when you are > stopped in your tracks by a sensation that you are walking above layers of > time in one place, or even that you are floating above your self as your > mind races in every widening spirals ... that this sensation was familiar > because I had felt it often in childhood. I connected it to young > children's love of repetition and ritual. > > I often felt, as a teacher, that the children in my class were walking a > bit above the ground most of the time. They appeared to be touching the > floor or the asphalt but they were not, usually. This became clear in the > misunderstandings between adults and children that make up the life of the > preschool (sort of like the one I mentioned above, between me and Mike, but > so much larger) -- but I also have some earliest memories of seeing things > repeatedly growing and shrinking in a spiral rhythm as I would try to > sleep. > > That is my two cents of response : ) : That something of the nested dolls, > or the liar paradox (Hofstadter, 1979 is where I heard that -- > Epidemenides/liar paradox), is essential to perezhivaie ... not just a > repetition. > > Beth > > > > Beth > > On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 5:14 PM, Wolff-Michael Roth < > wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Responding to Robert's invitation, > > > > My book title is not going meta. Instead, it goes to the very hard of > > mathematical praxis. What is it that allows a mathematician to see in the > > moves of another a typical mathematical move rather than the move of > > another. What is it in the doing that makes it mathematical rather > > scientific, commonsense, chemical... And the book is concerned with > showing > > the sociogenesis of the mathematics of mathematics, the origin of > > mathematical reasoning AS social relation (more accurately, because of > the > > ideality of mathematics, a societal relation---see Il'enkov, the ideal, > the > > general [obshee]). > > > > For the remainder of the paragraphs of the unsigned message, I do not > > understand a thing. I thought I understood Heidegger a bit, have read > many > > of his works many times. But I do not see how anything in these > paragraphs > > arises out of the thinking of Heidegger, or anyone else who took up and > > developed the philosopher's thinking, like Derrida or Nancy . . . > > > > Michael > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > -------------------- > > Wolff-Michael Roth, Lansdowne Professor > > Applied Cognitive Science > > MacLaurin Building A567 > > University of Victoria > > Victoria, BC, V8P 5C2 > > http://web.uvic.ca/~mroth > > > > New book: *The Mathematics of Mathematics > > > directions-in-mathematics-and-science-education/the- > > mathematics-of-mathematics/>* > > > > On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 1:50 PM, Robert Lake > > > wrote: > > > > > For meta question I defer to Professor Roth himself. > > > (Included in this email). > > > Robert > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 4:40 PM, wrote: > > > > > > > Beth, Robert, and the others forming a ?(we)?. > > > > > > > > Beth said it is the ?()? within the ?()? that interests her [as > being]. > > > > Maybe Framing is ALL communication, ALL thought, ALL consciousness > .... > > > > Bateson?.... but Beth thinks we need to tackle framing head on [face > > > into] > > > > when discussing perezhivanie. > > > > > > > > Now I noticed that Wolff-Michael Roth included in the title of his > book > > > > the phrase ? mathematics of mathematics - and my mind wondered to > > > > conjecture if this is going ?meta? and if ?()? is also going ?meta?. > > > > > > > > Could Beth?s ?()? as symbolic also have another aspect [or side] that > > is > > > > () = bracket and the doubling ?()? = bracketing the bracket. These > > > moves > > > > as examples of going ?meta? which also plays with saying/not saying > or > > > > revealing/concealing that Ed Wall recently posted when he said: > > > > The truth of the proposition, in effect, resides in the possibility > of > > > > bringing its referents into the light (here is where aletheia takes a > > > > part); I.e. uncovering. That is, on the LEVEL of ?apophantic as? > things > > > are > > > > propositionally either true or false, but on the LEVEL of the > > > ?hermeneutic > > > > as? they are neither. > > > > > > > > However, the ?apophantic as? IS (its being) grounded in > interpretation, > > > > I.e. the ?hermeneutic as? (its being). For Heidegger (and this is an > > > > oversimplification) ?hermeneutic truth? IS in effect (in use) > > DISclosure. > > > > ..... complicated because if one surfaces [metaphor of LEVELS] to the > > > > apophantic then, in effect (in use) there is a covering back up > > > > (closure).... Also, and this is most important, the consequent would > > not > > > be > > > > an understanding of Trump?s speech, but an understanding > (interpreting) > > > of > > > > how ?(I)? understand (interpret) Trump?s speech. > > > > > > > > I am travelling back and forth exploring saying as () generating > > effects > > > > IN USE, and then doubling back and exploring the () generating > effects > > IN > > > > USE through ?()? interpretation of the uses. To go hear would have > to > > > > bring in Umberto Eco who pleads for us to make a distinction between > > > ?use? > > > > and ?interpretation? AS aspects of semiosis and semiotic but this is > > for > > > > another turn. > > > > > > > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > > > > > > > From: Beth Ferholt > > > > Sent: February 5, 2017 6:38 PM > > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fate of a Man > > > > > > > > Thanks for the calling out to Monica and me, Mike and Andy -- I had > to > > > stop > > > > checking XMCA for a couple of weeks so I did not see the discussion > or > > > your > > > > notes to me in the chain, until today. One of the the strengths of > > XMCA > > > is > > > > that it creates a conversation that can include people who can not > > > always? > > > > respond that very day, or even week, due to various forms of > > > interruption! > > > > Often these "interruptions" are children or political events, which > > canY > > > > help us to understand perezhivanie. > > > > > > > > As well as spending time at JFK, recently, many of us here in New > York > > > have > > > > been attending local protests to keep our neighborhoods feeling safe > > for > > > > everyone. I live in a neighborhood in Brooklyn that includes several > > > > Muslim communities and several Jewish communities (as well as a few > > > Russian > > > > and Polish communities), and at the local protests these past few > weeks > > > > some people have had photographs of their family members who were > > killed > > > by > > > > the Nazis attached to the back of their "never again" signs. Also we > > all, > > > > Muslim, Jewish, etc. families, have been often bringing our children > > to > > > > the protests. > > > > > > > > So I have been thinking a lot about children and hope, during the > past > > > few > > > > weeks. It is within this frame that I saw this film. I think the > film > > > was > > > > expecting us to see the child as only benefitting from the main > > > character's > > > > lying, saying that he was the child's father, and of course the child > > did > > > > benefit, but I think that perezhivanie is about truth, somehow, > > although > > > I > > > > am not sure how. > > > > > > > > My second thought is that Manchester by the Sea must have been > > > referencing > > > > this film, with its return-to-the-space-where-the-house-was scene, > and > > > > also > > > > with the choice to replace the lost self (as father) / family or > no. I > > > > think it might help this conversation if we all saw both films, > > actually. > > > > Two thoughts on this methods suggestion for our conversation, before > I > > > > return to the topic itself. > > > > > > > > 1) It is odd how closely the two films are related, as I did not know > > > that > > > > the two films were related when I told Chris to see Manchester by the > > Sea > > > > in relation to thinking about perezhivanie. I told Chris when I saw > > him > > > in > > > > person, and I think that discussions about perezhivanie are often > > > different > > > > in person. We learned at LCHC in the 2004/5 playworld projects that > > > these > > > > in person discussions about perezhivanie have a pronounced proleptic > > > > structure, mirroring the topic of study, such that the conclusion of > > the > > > > discussion appears at the start: It feels like magic is happening. > (I > > > > think this has something to do with how good teachers see the things > in > > > > their classroom that are useful or no before they happen or "behind > > their > > > > heads" ... when you are very present you have this "sixth sense," > which > > > is > > > > really an experience of time moving in two directions at once ... > being > > > > very present can often require a lot of in person time and being with > > > > children speeds up the process.) > > > > > > > > 2) It is a strength that the XMCA conversations can continue through > > all > > > of > > > > our different schedules. It is a negative that they are not in > person, > > > and > > > > seeing films together can really help. This is where we went on the > > > > perezhivanie facebook page when it was briefly in English and in > > Russian > > > -- > > > > with a film, and it was very helpful. (Of course I am thinking of > this > > > > while considering the changing role and form of LCHC and Mike's > > > > participation in LCHC and XMCA. I am thinking of the mistakes that > are > > > > communication. A story about this that I thought of recently, which > > > shows > > > > this point well, and seems worth retelling BECAUSE when studying > > > > perezhivanie the form is often (always??) the study of the content: > As > > a > > > > newish graduate student Mike once said "thank you" to me when I made > a > > > > comment in the afternoon about an AM conversation that day. Mike's > > > "thank > > > > you" encouraged me to pay extra attention to this comment/thought of > > > mine, > > > > which later became important in our analysis of a > difficult-to-decipher > > > > playworld event. I was thinking of this event as I walked and talked > > > with > > > > a doctoral student of my own -- I seem to have a heavily spacial > memory > > > > process and my student and I were walking through a doorway -- and I > > > > suddenly realized that Mike could have been thanking me for holding > the > > > > door for him at this time in the past when his feedback was so > > important > > > to > > > > me ... maybe he did not hear my comment, but just thanked me for > > holding > > > > the door ... in fact it now appears to me that this was probably the > > > case!) > > > > > > > > The interesting thing to me about the above 2 points is the framing. > > It > > > IS > > > > the "()" within the "()" that interests me. Maybe Framing is all > > > > communication or all thought or consciousness ... Bateson? ... but I > > > think > > > > we need to tackle framing head on when discussing perezhivanie. The > > two > > > > films are very different in regards to framing, I think this is why > > they > > > > are most interesting to think about together, but first I have two > > > > citations for thinking about time that I use frequently in my writing > > on > > > > perezhivanie. > > > > > > > > These seem worth repeating here, as this thinking about time in > > > space/time > > > > seems to me to be thinking about framing ... the "()" makes us double > > > back > > > > in time as we read -- : > > > > > > > > (As to Performance, Alfredo copied the Schechner quote above.) > > > > > > > > Dewey's relation of the notion of object to prolepsis (on XMCA): > > > > Mike (2007) used the term ?temporally double sided? to describe this > > > > phenomenon of growing back and towards the future and the past > > > > simultaneously. > > > > > > > > What I am (still) thinking about, now, most often: > > > > It is the juxtaposition of temporal double sidedness with stages that > > > > creates perezhivanie. What Schechner argues is that this > juxtaposition > > > > provides the rhythm that allows us to raise ourselves up and hover, > > > > suspended momentarily in a state of being simultaneously ourselves > and > > > not > > > > ourselves: our past and future selves (someone else). > > > > > > > > So my first point is about framing and my second is about children. > > The > > > > Fate Of Man is all about the frames / "()". The stories are nested > > within > > > > eachother, repeating themselves, maybe even sort of like a fractal, > or > > > > anyhow a spiral? I have some congenital prosopagnosia, getting worse > > as > > > I > > > > age and definitely bad with a film like this. I kept thinking we > were > > > back > > > > at the ferry as the form of the conversation and context images > > repeated > > > > themselves, as I could not recognize the face of the character who > was > > > the > > > > audience for our hero's story! Manchester by the Sea, on the other > > hand, > > > > had no frames. We just jumped right in and rode it through. I only > saw > > > > Manchester once but do others think this is true? relevant? > > > > > > > > I think that the question of children's position in relation to adult > > > > perezhivanie is central in both of these films. The children in both > of > > > > these films appear to want the main characters to try again at being > > > > fathers. This is a critique of films about children -- I can not > think > > > of > > > > the name of the person who made this critique, but I can find it for > > > anyone > > > > if needed -- : We adults often make films not about children but > about > > > our > > > > own childhoods. We make films about children who are no longer with > > us. > > > > But is this really best for the films, as films are usually best when > > > they > > > > are somehow in dialogue with their topic, this is a characteristic of > > the > > > > medium, no? > > > > > > > > If you do not have some pretense, some playing again, you can not > have > > > > perezhivanie. But I think that Fate of Man is not about > perezhivanie, > > > > although in a different way than Manchester by the Sea is not about > > > > perezhivanie. In Manchester by the Sea there is no other with whom > to > > > > perezhivanie because the main character and his former wife still > love > > > each > > > > other, or at lease he still loves her and she returns enough of the > > love > > > to > > > > keep him loving her, and neither of them can pull the other up > because > > > they > > > > both hit bottom together and in the same story. In Fate of Man there > > is > > > is > > > > no chance for perezhivanie because the other needs to be involved in > > some > > > > honest way, or there is no dialogue. > > > > > > > > In Fate of Man the hero seems to me to be playing out his memory in > the > > > > real world. A child is not an other with whom one can ever > > perezhivanie. > > > > This is not perezhivanie as there is no real world as a player, and > > this > > > is > > > > why our hero's heart will fail him. He did not reach bottom and then > > > start > > > > to pull himself up by connecting with another with great bravery. > > > Instead, > > > > as he says himself, he just snapped -- he is now living in a dream. > > > > > > > > As Larry put it, above in this chain: "In other words, navigating > > through > > > > the suffering and existential emptiness is not a hero?s journey." And > > > this > > > > point is relevant, again, to our method for studying perezhivanie. I > > > don't > > > > think we can manage this one on our own (XMCA), even as a group that > > > allows > > > > for conversations over extended time periods. > > > > > > > > If form and content are related in this process, I'd say that we > won't > > > > understand this process until we see children as full people. And > > > > simultaneously as children. Children have something to tell us about > > > this > > > > process that no one else can tell us, and they are not going to tell > us > > > > this in a way that those of us who are researchers/scholars can > listen, > > > > without the bridge of the teacher voices. How to include these > voices > > in > > > > our research is key. And the answer has something to do with art, as > > > well > > > > as with time and space. > > > > > > > > I am going to send this as it is long enough already, and then catch > up > > > > with the related chains after I do ... And I won't say more now, but > I > > > > agree with all the people who thought this was a great pick to start > > the > > > > discussion. Many levels to discuss and I also found many aspects of > > the > > > > film related to perezhivanie in many ways! Beth > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 11:51 PM, Andy Blunden > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > How about a documentary movie about the first Trump voter who dies > > as a > > > > > result of repeal of Obama Care? That would be a perezhivanie > within a > > > > > perezhivanie! > > > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > Andy Blunden > > > > > http://home.mira.net/~andy > > > > > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective- > > decision-making > > > > > On 21/01/2017 12:03 PM, Helena Worthen wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> I am late to this discussion, but I have been paying attention. I > > was > > > > >> reluctant to expose myself to the emotional challenges of the > film. > > I > > > > knew > > > > >> that between the majestic music, the stunning black and white > > images, > > > > the > > > > >> beautiful human faces and bodies (and some very ugly ones), and > the > > > > twists > > > > >> of the story, I was going to be deeply moved. However, I have been > > > > reading > > > > >> two books by Svetlana Alexievich -- Voices from Chernobyl and > > > Secondhand > > > > >> Time - which tell equally heartbreaking, horrifying stories of > > > > suffering. > > > > >> Reading her work inclines me to place the film in the context of > the > > > > period > > > > >> of deStalinization after Kruschev's 1956 speech to the 20th > Congress > > > of > > > > the > > > > >> CPSU, which gave the signal that it was permissible to begin to > talk > > > > freely > > > > >> about Soviet history. It was a period of trying to build a story > > that > > > > could > > > > >> explain and honor, if not justify, the extreme suffering of the > > Soviet > > > > >> people. This film seems to me to set out to accomplish that. So > does > > > > >> Alexievich's book, which is a compilation of interviews done > between > > > > 1991 > > > > >> and 2012, with people who had something to say (good and bad) > about > > > the > > > > >> Soviet regime and the experience of its dissolution. She got the > > 2015 > > > > Nobel > > > > >> Prize for this book. And I sense that Andy, or someone, is > > > anticipating > > > > >> that the US is going to have to produce some works of scholarship > or > > > > art, > > > > >> or both, that attempt to explain what is happening now here in the > > US > > > -- > > > > >> for example, this afternoon, under President Trump. > > > > >> > > > > >> Helena Worthen > > > > >> helenaworthen@gmail.com > > > > >> Vietnam blog: helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > > > >> > > > > >> On Jan 19, 2017, at 4:00 PM, Christopher Schuck wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >> For some reason I couldn't see the subtitles showing up in Fate > of a > > > Man > > > > >>> the first time, so I started to watch it dubbed in English > instead. > > > But > > > > >>> the > > > > >>> mannered Hollywood accents definitely were not exactly helping to > > > > convey > > > > >>> the "real Russian soul" Robbins talks about! It felt like I was > > being > > > > >>> asked > > > > >>> to imagine Cary Grant inhabiting Andrei's perezhivanie-ing body. > > So, > > > I > > > > >>> started over with the subtitled version. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Here are some quick initial reflections: wonderful movie, and in > > > Andrei > > > > >>> one > > > > >>> of the more memorable characters I have seen. But I also found > > myself > > > > >>> thinking how big a difference there is between watching a film on > > my > > > > >>> 12-inch laptop with headphones (my only option at the moment), > and > > > > >>> sitting > > > > >>> back and immersing yourself in a darkened theater or at least on > a > > > > >>> widescreen TV without any other distractions, allowing ourselves > to > > > > "fall > > > > >>> into this space" by virtue of our very awareness of the illusion > > > > >>> generated > > > > >>> by the frame, as Beth and Monica put it. This difference becomes > > even > > > > >>> bigger if the screen you're viewing it on also enables you to > > quickly > > > > >>> check > > > > >>> email from time to time during the movie, as many people do these > > > days. > > > > >>> If > > > > >>> we are to consider the film experience as a model (analogy?) for > > > > >>> perezhivanie or even a certain kind of simulation of it, this > > effect > > > > that > > > > >>> occurs when we lose ourselves in a film would be undermined by an > > > > >>> especially small frame or poor viewing conditions. At what point > > does > > > > >>> "the > > > > >>> knowledge that the movement we experience is just an illusion" > (p. > > 2 > > > in > > > > >>> their article) undermine the perezhivanie-like quality of film as > > > > opposed > > > > >>> to forming an integral part of it? And, might the way distraction > > > > >>> functions > > > > >>> to undermine perezhivanie in the context of film in any way > mirror > > > how > > > > we > > > > >>> "distract" ourselves in the course of living lives from conscious > > > > >>> engagement with the perezhivanie we are otherwise undergoing? Is > > > > viewing > > > > >>> a > > > > >>> film on a 12-inch screen while checking email and calling it an > > > > >>> "experience" in any way analogous to the self-deceptions and > > escapes > > > we > > > > >>> engage in during the course of either experience-as-struggle or > > > > >>> experience-as-contemplation? I did not check email while watching > > > Fate > > > > >>> of a > > > > >>> Man, by the way. Just in case you're wondering. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> As for the film itself: I was struck by the incidental way in > which > > > the > > > > >>> earlier loss of his childhood family is introduced and > acknowledged > > > at > > > > >>> the > > > > >>> very outset, and how this contrasts with the dramatic ongoing > > > > >>> perezhivanie > > > > >>> that ensues going forward: it is as if this early loss is "taken > > for > > > > >>> granted" as also part of the Russian experience. We are not > privy > > to > > > > any > > > > >>> perezhivanie he might have presumably undergone before that > point; > > it > > > > is > > > > >>> simply not "within the frame." At several points, I was reminded > of > > > > >>> Satyajit's World of Apu (last movie in his trilogy), where there > > was > > > > >>> also a > > > > >>> set of early losses and a relationship formed with a "son." Have > > any > > > of > > > > >>> you > > > > >>> seen it? I think it would also be a good example of perezhivanie. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> I would not want to overemphasize the use of literary motifs, > since > > > > >>> Bondarchuk was presumably not making any references to the > concept > > of > > > > >>> perezhivanie as such. But there were several devices that evoked > > Beth > > > > and > > > > >>> Monica's passage from To The Lighthouse ("Time stand still > here"), > > > and > > > > >>> their metaphor of a life (or more specifically, a perezhivanie > > > within a > > > > >>> life) spiraling back over itself to bring two disparate moments > > into > > > > >>> juxtaposition in a way such that "your life becomes > > three-dimensional > > > > >>> again" (p. 2). One occurs in the various scenes when Andrei gazes > > up > > > at > > > > >>> the > > > > >>> sky in reverie and all we see are clouds, or the scene where he > > lies > > > in > > > > >>> the > > > > >>> grass after his first escape and the camera pans back as it > becomes > > > > very > > > > >>> quiet, leaving nothing but him swallowed up in the vastness of > > > nature. > > > > >>> There is a certain timeless quality to these scenes, a sense that > > he > > > is > > > > >>> momentarily transcending the linear temporal flow of his life as > he > > > > >>> either > > > > >>> stands outside it and "stands still" in it. It could be a > thousand > > > > years > > > > >>> passing by in those clouds, or just the 17 years of his second > > phase; > > > > it > > > > >>> suddenly doesn't matter. Another thing I noticed was the use of > the > > > two > > > > >>> musical themes: the love song the accordionist plays for him and > > > Irina, > > > > >>> and > > > > >>> the festive music incongruously piped in at the concentration > camp > > > > during > > > > >>> that amazing scene around Part 1, minute 45 where the prisoners > are > > > > being > > > > >>> marched in and the crematorium is going full blast down the road. > > At > > > > some > > > > >>> point (I couldn't relocate it) Andrei has a flashback where he > > > revisits > > > > >>> the > > > > >>> love song and his memories of Irina; then at minute 20 in Part 2, > > > while > > > > >>> processing his family's death after coming home from the war, he > > > finds > > > > >>> himself hearing the concentration camp song on the record player > > and > > > is > > > > >>> suddenly transported back to that traumatic experience. Yet he > does > > > not > > > > >>> smash the record right away; he stares at it for a minute, almost > > as > > > if > > > > >>> he > > > > >>> is resituating these two moments in relation to each other. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Perhaps I am overanalyzing, but I found both these motifs to > speak > > to > > > > >>> Beth > > > > >>> and Monica's examples in the way they bring two moments back into > > > > contact > > > > >>> with each other. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Finally, Mike and Andy's discussion in the Misha thread about the > > > > >>> watching > > > > >>> of a film functioning as perezhivanie for those viewers for whom > it > > > > >>> reflects and repeats their own experience, raises a question > about > > > the > > > > >>> difference between extended perezhivanie and the personal > > > re-enactment > > > > of > > > > >>> one's perezhivanie within a much smaller time scale (the two or > > three > > > > >>> hours > > > > >>> spent watching the movie). I hope at some point we could delve > more > > > > into > > > > >>> this issue of time frame and time scale in various forms of > > > > perezhivanie. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Chris > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 8:39 PM, Andy Blunden > > > > > wrote: > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Thank you Marc! It was the third "plane" which was my intention > in > > > > >>>> providing "Fate of a Man" for discussion. You picked out what > were > > > for > > > > >>>> me > > > > >>>> also the main (but by no means the only) instances of > > perezhivanija > > > in > > > > >>>> this > > > > >>>> movie. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> It seems to me that Sokolov (the author) offers one perezhivanie > > in > > > > >>>> particular as the main theme of the movie. At the beginning of > the > > > > >>>> movie, > > > > >>>> the man and boy walk up the path to the camera and at the end of > > the > > > > >>>> movie > > > > >>>> they walk off together again. So this is the central theme. As > you > > > > say, > > > > >>>> when Sokolov's family has all been killed, even his talented > > > war-hero > > > > >>>> son > > > > >>>> who was going to be a famous mathematician, his life has become > > > > >>>> meaningless. I really liked your reflections of Sokolov's > > > reflections > > > > >>>> too. > > > > >>>> He sees the young orphan boy who, he discovers, has no family > and > > > > >>>> doesn't > > > > >>>> even know what town he comes from, but is aimlessly living on > > pieces > > > > of > > > > >>>> rubbish. He sees that the two of them are in the same situation. > > So > > > > >>>> after > > > > >>>> some time mulling this over a they sit together in the truck, he > > > lies > > > > to > > > > >>>> the boy and tells him that he is the boy's father, and they > > embrace. > > > > But > > > > >>>> the boy questions this and he reasserts his claim and the boy > > > accepts > > > > >>>> this. > > > > >>>> The man is able to define a new meaning for his life; he has > done > > > this > > > > >>>> autonomously without the help of a therapist, but he still needs > > > > >>>> another, > > > > >>>> the boy, to embody that meaning. But he knows it is his own > > > invention. > > > > >>>> The > > > > >>>> boy on the other hand has to be made to believe it is true; he > is > > > not > > > > >>>> sufficiently mature to manufacture this meaning himself, but as > a > > > > child > > > > >>>> he > > > > >>>> can be guided by an adult. As you say, Marc, it is very > > significant > > > > when > > > > >>>> Sokolov tells us how he is now, again, worried about his own > > death. > > > > >>>> What if > > > > >>>> I died in my sleep? that would be a shock for my son! > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> For me, this reflection causes me to look back on the man's > whole > > > > >>>> struggle > > > > >>>> during the war: in the first phase he does not differentiate > > between > > > > his > > > > >>>> life as a father and husband and his life as a Soviet citizen - > > war > > > is > > > > >>>> his > > > > >>>> duty and he is confident, as is everyone else, of victory. His > > > bravery > > > > >>>> in > > > > >>>> driving his truck to the front line under fire reflects the fact > > > that > > > > he > > > > >>>> has never imagined his own death. Then he finds himself > prostrate > > > > >>>> before 2 > > > > >>>> Nazi soldiers who we assume are going among the wounded shooting > > > > anyone > > > > >>>> who > > > > >>>> has survived. But surprisingly, he is allowed to live, but is to > > be > > > > >>>> used as > > > > >>>> a slave. Sokolov has been confronted by his own mortality for > the > > > > first > > > > >>>> time and he chooses life, but accepts slavery (Sartre and Hegel > > both > > > > >>>> thematize this moment in their philosophy). In this second phase > > of > > > > >>>> Sokolov's life he is a survivor. Everything hinges on surviving > > and > > > > >>>> returning to his wife and family. As you point out, Marc, his > > later > > > > >>>> reflections on this are particularly poignant, when he discovers > > the > > > > >>>> futility of this hope. Eventually, the life of forced labour > > becomes > > > > >>>> unbearable. He cries out: "Why are we forced to dig 3 cubic > metres > > > > when > > > > >>>> 1 > > > > >>>> cubic meter is enough for a grave!" Sokolov has accepted and > > > embraced > > > > >>>> death > > > > >>>> after all. (Transition to the third phase.) To his German > masters > > > this > > > > >>>> is > > > > >>>> an unendurable act of defiance. As David points out, there are > > flaws > > > > in > > > > >>>> the > > > > >>>> scene which follows, but ... he confronts his own death > defiantly, > > > > >>>> stares > > > > >>>> it in the eye, spits on it, and his life again gains meaning as > a > > > > "brave > > > > >>>> Soviet soldier" unafraid of death even in such an impossible > > moment. > > > > Not > > > > >>>> only does he survive, but takes the Nazi Colonel prisoner and > > hands > > > > the > > > > >>>> war > > > > >>>> plans over to the Red Army. Now, when he is offered the chance > to > > > > >>>> return to > > > > >>>> his wife as a war hero he declines and asks to be sent back to > the > > > > >>>> front. > > > > >>>> His life has adopted this new meaning which casts his life as a > > > father > > > > >>>> into > > > > >>>> the shade. He no longer fears death. But he is persuaded to take > > > time > > > > >>>> off > > > > >>>> and learns of the death of his family. As Marc relates, the > > > continued > > > > >>>> survival of his son, who is now also a war hero, provides > > continued > > > > >>>> meaning > > > > >>>> and integrates the two themes in his life. This takes work, as > > Marc > > > > >>>> points > > > > >>>> out, and he has the assistance of an older man, in achieving > this > > > > >>>> redefinition of his life. But tragically, with the death of his > > son > > > > >>>> (and NB > > > > >>>> the end of the war, albeit in victory) his life is again without > > > > >>>> meaning. > > > > >>>> Fourth phase. He has survived, but has no purpose. By becoming a > > > > father > > > > >>>> again (Fifth phase), he regains the fear of death and meaning in > > his > > > > >>>> life. > > > > >>>> It is real work, and we witness this psychological turmoil as he > > > copes > > > > >>>> with > > > > >>>> the idea that this scruffy orphan boy could be a son to him, and > > > > >>>> eventually > > > > >>>> he manages it. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> The transition between each phase is a critical period during > > which > > > > >>>> Sokolov's personality is transformed. Note also, that there is a > > > > >>>> premonition of this perezhivanie in Sokolov's earlier life: his > > > family > > > > >>>> is > > > > >>>> wiped out in the Civil War and the famine of 1922, then he meets > > his > > > > >>>> wife-to-be, also raised in an orphanage, and they together > create > > a > > > > life > > > > >>>> and have 17 happy years before the Nazi invasion intrudes. So > from > > > the > > > > >>>> beginning of the movie we are introduced to the main theme. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> These are the main moments in the movie, which caused me to > select > > > it > > > > >>>> for > > > > >>>> discussion rather than any other movie. Also, there is no doubt > > that > > > > in > > > > >>>> producing this movie in 1958 the Soviet government was engaged > > with > > > > its > > > > >>>> people, in a process of collective perezhivanie and by > reflecting > > on > > > > the > > > > >>>> collective perezhivanie during the period of the war, before and > > > > after, > > > > >>>> they aim to assist the people in collectively assigning meaning > to > > > > this > > > > >>>> terrible suffering and like the man and his "son" walking again > > into > > > > the > > > > >>>> future. As a propaganda movie, of course, it is open to much > > > > criticism, > > > > >>>> but > > > > >>>> that is hardly the point. I appreciate Marc's analysis in terms > of > > > the > > > > >>>> other concepts he has introduced. I wouldn't mind a recap on > > these. > > > In > > > > >>>> terms of Vasilyuk's concepts, Sokolov's life-world is *simple > and > > > > >>>> difficult*. The boy's life world is *simple and easy*. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Can we continue to discuss "Fate of a Man", while I open another > > > movie > > > > >>>> for > > > > >>>> analysis? I think there are at least 10 subscribers to this list > > who > > > > >>>> have > > > > >>>> published in learned journals on the topic of perezhivanie in > > > > childhood. > > > > >>>> Perhaps one of you would like to reflect on the boy's > > perezhivanija? > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Andy > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > >>>> Andy Blunden > > > > >>>> http://home.mira.net/~andy > > > > >>>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective- > > > decision-making > > > > >>>> On 18/01/2017 5:14 AM, Marc Clar? wrote: > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Hi, all, > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> and thank you, Andy, for sharing this amazing film, which I > > didn't > > > > >>>>> know. I > > > > >>>>> think it will be very useful to share and discuss our > respective > > > > views > > > > >>>>> on > > > > >>>>> perezhivanie. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> In my view, the film could be analyzed in terms of perezhivanie > > in > > > > >>>>> three > > > > >>>>> different planes. First, we could consider the person who > watches > > > the > > > > >>>>> film, > > > > >>>>> and we could study how the meaning she forms for the film > > > > restructures > > > > >>>>> her > > > > >>>>> relationship with aspects of her real life -such as, for > example, > > > her > > > > >>>>> own > > > > >>>>> death or the death of a beloved one, etc. (perhaps this is a > > little > > > > bit > > > > >>>>> like what Beth and Monica, or Veresov and Fleer, do with their > > > study > > > > of > > > > >>>>> playworlds?). In this plane, which would be perhaps the most > > > > >>>>> naturalistic > > > > >>>>> one, the film could be studied as an human-made cultural > artifact > > > > which > > > > >>>>> restuctures psychological functions; here, the meaning formed > for > > > the > > > > >>>>> film > > > > >>>>> by who watches it and uses it as mediator in her relation to > her > > > real > > > > >>>>> life > > > > >>>>> would be an m-perezhivanie. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> In a second plane, we could proceed as if the film was real > life, > > > and > > > > >>>>> we > > > > >>>>> could consider Sokolov telling his story to the man he meets by > > the > > > > >>>>> river > > > > >>>>> (a little bit like Carla telling her story to me). In this > plane, > > > > >>>>> Sokolov's > > > > >>>>> narrative (i.e., what is showed to us as narrated flashback) > > could > > > be > > > > >>>>> considered as a cultural artifact that Sokolov uses to relate > to > > > all > > > > >>>>> what > > > > >>>>> happened to him. At this plane, the meaning of this narrative > > would > > > > be > > > > >>>>> the > > > > >>>>> m-perezhivanie that, in that moment, mediates the relationship > > > > between > > > > >>>>> Sokolov and the war events he experienced years ago (but these > > > events > > > > >>>>> are > > > > >>>>> still very present to him, so although relating to past events, > > > there > > > > >>>>> is > > > > >>>>> here a Sokolov's activity [towards the past war events] which > is > > in > > > > >>>>> present > > > > >>>>> -this echoes Christopher when, within our conversations, said: > > > ?Part > > > > of > > > > >>>>> this might also be a question of what it means to describe and > > > > >>>>> represent > > > > >>>>> one's own perezhivanie figuratively/narratively (whether to > > others, > > > > or > > > > >>>>> to > > > > >>>>> oneself), as opposed to living that perezhivanie. Especially if > > the > > > > >>>>> attempt > > > > >>>>> to capture/represent one's own perezhivanie is, perhaps, also > > > central > > > > >>>>> to > > > > >>>>> the living of it?? > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> In a third plane, we could proceed as if Sokolov's narration > was > > > not > > > > a > > > > >>>>> retrospective narration, but the on-time sequence of events > with > > > > >>>>> on-time > > > > >>>>> Sokolov's explanation of these events (in the moments in which > > the > > > > >>>>> narrator > > > > >>>>> voice is assumed within the flashback). In this plane, there > are > > > > >>>>> several > > > > >>>>> interesting perezhivanie phenomena. Clearly, there is a > Sokolov's > > > > >>>>> activity > > > > >>>>> of experiencing-as-struggle, which initiates when he realizes > > that > > > > all > > > > >>>>> his > > > > >>>>> family, except one son, had been killed 2 years ago. At this > > > moment, > > > > >>>>> his > > > > >>>>> life becomes meaningless; the meaning (m-perezhivanie) he uses > to > > > > >>>>> relate > > > > >>>>> to > > > > >>>>> all his life (including the past) at this moment is expressed > in > > > his > > > > >>>>> conversation with his oncle: ?it's got to be that this life of > > mine > > > > is > > > > >>>>> nothing but a nightmare!?. In this moment, Sokolov's past in > the > > > > >>>>> prision > > > > >>>>> camp becomes also meaningless: then, his link to life (the > > > > >>>>> m-perezhivanie > > > > >>>>> that made being alive meaningful to him) was meeting his > family; > > > but > > > > at > > > > >>>>> that time his family was already dead, so when he discovers it, > > he > > > > >>>>> realizes > > > > >>>>> that this m-perezhivanie (the idea of meeting his family) was > > > linking > > > > >>>>> him > > > > >>>>> to death, not to life, so all his efforts to surviving become > > > > >>>>> meaningless: > > > > >>>>> ?Every night, when I was a prisioner, I talked with them. Now > it > > > > turns > > > > >>>>> out > > > > >>>>> that for two years I was talking with the dead??. In this > > > > conversation, > > > > >>>>> however, his oncle offers him an alternative m-perezhivanie to > > > relate > > > > >>>>> to > > > > >>>>> his life: he still has a son, so the m-perehivanie of meeting > his > > > > >>>>> family > > > > >>>>> can still turns Sokolov's life meaningful: ?you've got to go on > > > > living. > > > > >>>>> You > > > > >>>>> have to find Anatoly. When the war is over, your son will get > > > > married, > > > > >>>>> you > > > > >>>>> will live with them. You will take up your carpentry again, > play > > > with > > > > >>>>> your > > > > >>>>> grandkids?. It takes some time to Sokolov to enter into this > > > > >>>>> m-perezhivanie, but he does it and his life becomes meaningful > > > again: > > > > >>>>> ?and > > > > >>>>> then, unexpectedly, I've got a gleam of sunlight?. But, then, > > > Anatoly > > > > >>>>> also > > > > >>>>> dies. How to keep living? Here, Sokolov holds the > m-perezhivanie > > > that > > > > >>>>> linked him to life until that moment, and therefore, he needs a > > > son; > > > > >>>>> pretending being the father of Vanya turns his life meaningful > > > again. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Another interesting thing, still at that level, is how > Sokolov's > > > > >>>>> relation > > > > >>>>> with his own immediate death changes along the different > > occasions > > > in > > > > >>>>> which > > > > >>>>> he faces it. I thing here there are examples of > > > > >>>>> experiencing-as-contemplation -in my view, this is not > > > > >>>>> experiencing-as-struggle because the situation of impossibility > > > (the > > > > >>>>> immediate death) is removed existentially (Sokolov's life is > > given > > > > >>>>> back to > > > > >>>>> him), so that there is not a permanent situation of > impossibility > > > > >>>>> which is > > > > >>>>> initially meaningless and is turned into meaningful. In each > > > occasion > > > > >>>>> in > > > > >>>>> which Sokolov is faced with his immediate death, the > > m-perezhivanie > > > > >>>>> that > > > > >>>>> mediates this relationship is different. When he is captured, > his > > > > >>>>> m-perezhivanie is expressed as: ?here's my death coming after > > me?. > > > > >>>>> When he > > > > >>>>> is conducted to meet the nazi official, the m-perezhivanie is > > > > expressed > > > > >>>>> as: > > > > >>>>> ?the end of your misery?, ?to my death and my release of this > > > > torment, > > > > >>>>> I > > > > >>>>> will drink?. In the first, the death is running after Sokolov; > in > > > the > > > > >>>>> second, it is Sokolov happily going to meet death. Later, at > the > > > end > > > > of > > > > >>>>> the > > > > >>>>> film, he faces his immediate death again, and the > m-perezhivanie > > is > > > > >>>>> expressed as: ?I'm really worried that I might die in my sleep, > > and > > > > >>>>> that > > > > >>>>> would frighten my little son?. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Well, just some thoughts after watching this wonderful film. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Best regards, > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Marc. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> 2017-01-15 0:06 GMT+01:00 Christopher Schuck < > > > > schuckcschuck@gmail.com > > > > >>>>> >: > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Yes, definitely that article! And specifically, when I used > > > > "pivoting" > > > > >>>>> I > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> couldn't help but think of Beth's earlier example about how a > > > child > > > > >>>>>> will > > > > >>>>>> use a stick as a pivot for a horse. Perhaps a somewhat > different > > > > >>>>>> application but related, no? > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 4:06 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > > > > >>>>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no > > > > >>>>>> wrote: > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Chris, all, > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> your post is totally relevant to Beth's and Monica's article > in > > > the > > > > >>>>>>> special issue. They write about film and perezhivanie > (quoting > > > > >>>>>>> Sobchack) > > > > >>>>>>> the following: > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> The reason that film allows us to glimpse the future is that > > > there > > > > >>>>>>> is a > > > > >>>>>>> connection between filmic time and ?real? time: ?The images > of > > a > > > > film > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> exist > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> in the world as a temporal flow, within finitude and > situation. > > > > >>>>>>> Indeed, > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> the > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> fascination of the film is that it does not transcend our > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> lived-experience > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> of temporality, but rather that it seems to partake of it, to > > > share > > > > >>>>>>> it? > > > > >>>>>>> (1992, p. 60). > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> And later > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> "Specifically, the way that the flow of time becomes > > > > >>>>>>> multidirectional is > > > > >>>>>>> that ?rehearsals make it necessary to think of the future in > > > such a > > > > >>>>>>> way > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> as > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> to create a past? (1985, p. 39). As Schechner ex-plains: ?In a > > > very > > > > >>>>>>> real > > > > >>>>>>> way the future ? the project coming into existence through > the > > > > >>>>>>> process > > > > >>>>>>> of > > > > >>>>>>> rehearsal ? determines the past: what will be kept from > earlier > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> rehearsals > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> or from the ?source ma-terials? (1985, p. 39)." > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> Alfredo > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> ________________________________________ > > > > >>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > > > > >>>>>>> du> > > > > >>>>>>> on behalf of Christopher Schuck > > > > >>>>>>> Sent: 14 January 2017 21:43 > > > > >>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > > >>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fate of a Man > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> But that's both the limitation and strength of art or > fictional > > > > >>>>>>> narrative > > > > >>>>>>> as opposed to real life, isn't it? That art focuses our > > attention > > > > and > > > > >>>>>>> highlights certain features in a way that is idealized and > > > > >>>>>>> artificially > > > > >>>>>>> "designed" to convey something more clearly and purely (but > > less > > > > >>>>>>> organically and authentically) than it would be conveyed in > the > > > > >>>>>>> course > > > > >>>>>>> of > > > > >>>>>>> living it, or observing someone else living it? One way to > get > > > > around > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> this > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> would be, as David says, to analyze the film in terms of clues > > as > > > to > > > > >>>>>>> the > > > > >>>>>>> stages of emergence. But maybe another way to use the film > > would > > > be > > > > >>>>>>> to > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> view > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> it not so much as a complete, self-sufficient "example" of > > > > >>>>>>> perezhivanie, > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> as > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> a *tool *for pivoting back and forth between the concept of > > > > >>>>>>> perezhivanie > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> as > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> imaginatively constructed (through fiction), and the concept > of > > > > >>>>>>> perezhivanie as imaginatively constructed (through our real > > > living > > > > >>>>>>> experience and observation of it). So, it would be the > > *pivoting* > > > > >>>>>>> between > > > > >>>>>>> these two manifestations of the concept (designed vs. > evolved, > > as > > > > >>>>>>> David > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> put > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> it) that reveals new insights about perezhivanie, rather than > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> understanding > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> the concept from the film per se. > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 3:08 PM, David Kellogg < > > > > dkellogg60@gmail.com > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>> wrote: > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> I think there's a good reason why Andy started a new thread > on > > > > this: > > > > >>>>>>> he's a > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> very tidy thinker (quite unlike yours truly) and he knows > that > > > one > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> reason > > > > >>>>>>> why xmca threads are seldom cumulative is that they digress > to > > > > >>>>>>> related > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> problems without solving the immmediate ones. > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> Yes, of course, a film allows us to consider an example of > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> "perezhivanie", > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> but it is a designed perezhivanie rather than an evolved one; > > it > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> doesn't > > > > >>>>>>> explicitly display the various stages of emergence required > > for a > > > > >>>>>>> genetic > > > > >>>>>>> analysis, unless we analyze it not as a complete and finished > > > work > > > > of > > > > >>>>>>> art > > > > >>>>>>> but instead for clues as to the stages of its creation (the > way > > > > that, > > > > >>>>>>> for > > > > >>>>>>> example, "Quietly Flows the Don" was analyzed to determine > its > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> authenticity). > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> I remember that In the original short story, the schnapps > > > drinking > > > > >>>>>>>> scene seemed like pure sleight of hand: an artistically > > > gratuitous > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> example > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> of what eventually gave Soviet social realism such a bad > name. > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> David Kellogg > > > > >>>>>>>> Macquarie University > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 10:04 PM, Carol Macdonald < > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> carolmacdon@gmail.com > > > > >>>>>>> wrote: > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> Fellow XMCa-ers > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> I have watched it through now, thank you Andy, but right > now > > > only > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> empirical > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> psychological categories come to mind. I will watch it > again > > > and > > > > in > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> the > > > > >>>>>>>> meanwhile let my fellows with more recent experience of > > > > >>>>>>>> /perezhivanie/ > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> take > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> the discussion further. > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> It is a kind of timeless story, and modern film techniques > > > would > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> perhaps > > > > >>>>>>>> be > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> more explicit. At the least I would say it has for me a > > Russian > > > > >>>>>>>>> understanding of suffering, perhaps because of their unique > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> experience > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> of > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> it. But having said that, WWII must have generated other > > similar > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> experiences, apart from the first part about Andrei's > family > > > > dying > > > > >>>>>>>>> in > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> the > > > > >>>>>>>> famine. > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> Carol > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> On 14 January 2017 at 02:15, Andy Blunden < > ablunden@mira.net > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> wrote: > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> I watched it in two parts with subtitles: > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16w7fg_destiny-of-a- > man- > > > > >>>>>>>>>> 1959-pt-1_creation > > > > >>>>>>>>>> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16wat4_destiny-of-a- > man- > > > > >>>>>>>>>> 1959-pt-2_creation > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Andy > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ > > ------------------------------ > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Andy Blunden > > > > >>>>>>>>>> http://home.mira.net/~andy > > > > >>>>>>>>>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective- > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> decision-making > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> On 14/01/2017 2:35 AM, Beth Ferholt wrote: > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> Thank you for taking us to a shared example. I think that > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> having a > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> -- > > > > >>>>>>>>> Carol A Macdonald Ph.D (Edin) > > > > >>>>>>>>> Cultural Historical Activity Theory > > > > >>>>>>>>> Honorary Research Fellow: Department of Linguistics, Unisa > > > > >>>>>>>>> alternative email address: tmacdoca@unisa.ac.za > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Beth Ferholt > > > > Assistant Professor > > > > Department of Early Childhood and Art Education > > > > Brooklyn College, City University of New York > > > > 2900 Bedford Avenue > > > > Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 > > > > > > > > Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu > > > > Phone: (718) 951-5205 > > > > Fax: (718) 951-4816 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Robert Lake Ed.D. > > > Associate Professor > > > Social Foundations of Education > > > Dept. of Curriculum, Foundations, and Reading > > > Georgia Southern University > > > P. O. Box 8144, Statesboro, GA 30460 > > > Secretary/Treasurer-AERA- Paulo Freire Special Interest Group > > > Webpage: https://georgiasouthern.academia.edu/RobertLake*Those who > have > > > never despaired have neither lived nor loved. Hope is inseparable from > > > despair. Those of us who truly hope make despair a constant companion > > whom > > > we outwrestle every day owing to our commitment to justice, love, and > > > hope* ( > > > Cornel West, 2008, p. 185). > > > > > > > > > -- > Beth Ferholt > Assistant Professor > Department of Early Childhood and Art Education > Brooklyn College, City University of New York > 2900 Bedford Avenue > Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 > > Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu > Phone: (718) 951-5205 > Fax: (718) 951-4816 > > -- Beth Ferholt Assistant Professor Department of Early Childhood and Art Education Brooklyn College, City University of New York 2900 Bedford Avenue Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu Phone: (718) 951-5205 Fax: (718) 951-4816 From ulvi.icil@gmail.com Fri Feb 10 00:53:53 2017 From: ulvi.icil@gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?VWx2aSDEsMOnaWw=?=) Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 10:53:53 +0200 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: A methodological question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks David and Ed and all. On 10 February 2017 at 00:55, Edward Wall wrote: > David > > I was thinking of the SFL version of RST (I think - although I didn?t > check - that the particular tool on this site incorporates some of > Mathiessen?s ideas). If you know differently, I would appreciate that > information. I think, doing as you did in your previous email, would work > well also, but there is, perhaps, with this tool less of a learning curve. > > Ed > > > On Feb 9, 2017, at 4:39 PM, David Kellogg wrote: > > > > Right, Ed. Note that there is a systemic-functional version of RST > > developed by Christian Matthiessen (using "elaboration", "extension", and > > "enhancement" as the main logico-semantic relations that are realized in > > parataxis, hypotaxis, and embedding (these are structurally different, > but > > we can functionally relate them). > > > > I've always wondered if there is something developmental going on here. > > It's a grammatical expression of the genetic law, because parataxis is > > easily SHARED between speakers, hypotaxis is more intra-mental, and > > "embedding" is when that intra-mentality can be assumed. > > > > The latest analysis I did showed no statistically significant change > > between first graders and sixth graders in Korean schools in their > > hypotaxis and parataxis, but a big change in embedding. I think one of > the > > reasons that Castro's speeches are so long is that when he embeds, he > > unpacks with taxis. But the lack of statistical significance in taxis was > > due to extreme variations within groups, dwarfing the variations between > > them. The embedding was significant between groups: one of the things > that > > kids learn about Korean is how to embed. > > > > Castro: "This nation has had to face the taming of not one tiger, not two > > tigers, not three tigers, but the taming of 1,000 tigers." > > > > Embedding: "of ...." is rankshifted--a noun is embedded in a noun group > > > > Castro: "Someone once said that it was a paper tiger, and it is, from a > > strategic point of view, because some day it will cease being the world's > > owner." > > > > Unpacking: "it was a paper tiger" unpacks "tiger" into a sentence > > (elaboration) and then explains (enhancement) > > > > David Kellogg > > Macquarie University > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 7:08 AM, Edward Wall wrote: > > > >> Ulivi > >> > >> This is only a suggestion, but you might find rhetorical structure > theory > >> interesting if you want to get at embedding (there is a tool for > analysis > >> and some discussion: http://www.sfu.ca/rst/06tools/ ) > >> > >> Ed > >>> On Feb 9, 2017, at 3:43 PM, Ulvi ??il wrote: > >>> > >>> Dear xmcas, > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> I would like to direct to you a methodological question and to kindly > >> have > >>> your idea. > >>> > >>> I am reading Fidel Castro's speeches. They are full of critiques of > >>> neoliberal globalization, capitalism and so on. > >>> > >>> If I would like to study those speeches in terms of the adult > educational > >>> aspects, elements they possess (because they are addresses to > conscience > >>> of the adult world, mostly Cuban people, various sections of Cuban > people > >>> and society) I wonder what would be the best methodology. > >>> > >>> For a study something like: Critical discourse in Fidel Castro's > >> speeches. > >>> > >>> Not CDA, I suppose, because, my aim will not be looking at what lies > >> behind > >>> and hidden in these speeches, because they already demystify capitalism > >>> etc. which means that as an analyst I have a subjectivity which is on > the > >>> side of Castro rather than aiming at criticizing him, I intend to make > >>> visible what he criticizes in the global neoliberal world. > >>> > >>> Discourse analysis? > >>> > >>> Thinking that I intend to include into the study all the emotional, > >>> spiritual elements in those speeches, with many evaluations, > >> qualifications > >>> like "teaching, medicine nobel professions" etc. > >>> > >>> Should I study something on the line like "critical discourse > (embedded) > >> in > >>> Fidel Castro's speeches"? > >>> > >>> If yes, how? > >>> > >>> And if not, what may be the best possible methodological alternative? > >>> > >>> It is so interesting that while I studied the valuable works of Norman > >>> Fairclough on CDA, on the critique of globalisation etc, which, for the > >>> focus of study, they have, various aspects of capitalist, transnational > >>> company discourse etc, I found that same critique not as an analysis, > >> but, > >>> itself, in Fidel Castro's public speeches, criticizing neoliberal > >>> globalisation etc, so how to study Castro's speech texts?! > >>> > >>> > >>> Thank you very much. > >>> > >>> Ulvi > >> > >> > >> > > > From lpscholar2@gmail.com Fri Feb 10 06:10:02 2017 From: lpscholar2@gmail.com (lpscholar2@gmail.com) Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 06:10:02 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fate of a Man In-Reply-To: References: <048522a2-cca0-3e56-cae2-f2142b9fbd5a@mira.net> <1484427999407.2877@iped.uio.no> <2270f5e7-7d82-5150-89a3-808a4e20b89b@mira.net> <9B8D2964-0926-4976-91F2-CDD51E50A6F5@gmail.com> <589ce1e1.4613620a.7f22b.4034@mx.google.com> <1486704305436.37889@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: <589dc9ef.5693620a.a6ba5.d717@mx.google.com> Also, in going meta, is there a ?focus? or ?concentration? occurring as a form of alchemy within the ?repetition? which is not ?real repetition but more like ritual, drama, play When ?time stand still? what is occurring *receptively* as we seem to rise above the living flow (experienced or not)? Time stand still placing us in a stillness of un/certantity that opens (possibly) new vistas and figures IF we have not gone ?rigid? and ?closed? during time stand still and double back. Now is perezhivanie a subset of this more general phenomena when certain qualities or attributes come ?to the fore? WITH OTHERS (imaginal or real) that ?carry us? beyond time stand still and level phenomena? Sent from my Windows 10 phone From: Beth Ferholt Sent: February 9, 2017 9:33 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fate of a Man Yes, certainly, but adults play too. Still, yes, this makes a connection with childhood. And I wonder if everyone has that sensation before sleeping in childhood? No real way to know. Curious! Beth On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 12:25 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > Beth, I remember those spirals before sleeping too; I had exactly the > same! And for the meta and children, play itself is meta, as Bateson shows > discussing 'the message this is play'. > > (my two cents, not much time this week) > Alfredo > ________________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Beth Ferholt > Sent: 10 February 2017 05:13 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fate of a Man > > I am not well enough read to respond to these recent posts but was very > interested to talk more about "meta". I have, since I began teaching > preschool, thought that the feeling of a "spiral of consciousness" -- is > that my own term or from someone else? -- what I mean is when you are > stopped in your tracks by a sensation that you are walking above layers of > time in one place, or even that you are floating above your self as your > mind races in every widening spirals ... that this sensation was familiar > because I had felt it often in childhood. I connected it to young > children's love of repetition and ritual. > > I often felt, as a teacher, that the children in my class were walking a > bit above the ground most of the time. They appeared to be touching the > floor or the asphalt but they were not, usually. This became clear in the > misunderstandings between adults and children that make up the life of the > preschool (sort of like the one I mentioned above, between me and Mike, but > so much larger) -- but I also have some earliest memories of seeing things > repeatedly growing and shrinking in a spiral rhythm as I would try to > sleep. > > That is my two cents of response : ) : That something of the nested dolls, > or the liar paradox (Hofstadter, 1979 is where I heard that -- > Epidemenides/liar paradox), is essential to perezhivaie ... not just a > repetition. > > Beth > > > > Beth > > On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 5:14 PM, Wolff-Michael Roth < > wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Responding to Robert's invitation, > > > > My book title is not going meta. Instead, it goes to the very hard of > > mathematical praxis. What is it that allows a mathematician to see in the > > moves of another a typical mathematical move rather than the move of > > another. What is it in the doing that makes it mathematical rather > > scientific, commonsense, chemical... And the book is concerned with > showing > > the sociogenesis of the mathematics of mathematics, the origin of > > mathematical reasoning AS social relation (more accurately, because of > the > > ideality of mathematics, a societal relation---see Il'enkov, the ideal, > the > > general [obshee]). > > > > For the remainder of the paragraphs of the unsigned message, I do not > > understand a thing. I thought I understood Heidegger a bit, have read > many > > of his works many times. But I do not see how anything in these > paragraphs > > arises out of the thinking of Heidegger, or anyone else who took up and > > developed the philosopher's thinking, like Derrida or Nancy . . . > > > > Michael > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > -------------------- > > Wolff-Michael Roth, Lansdowne Professor > > Applied Cognitive Science > > MacLaurin Building A567 > > University of Victoria > > Victoria, BC, V8P 5C2 > > http://web.uvic.ca/~mroth > > > > New book: *The Mathematics of Mathematics > > > directions-in-mathematics-and-science-education/the- > > mathematics-of-mathematics/>* > > > > On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 1:50 PM, Robert Lake > > > wrote: > > > > > For meta question I defer to Professor Roth himself. > > > (Included in this email). > > > Robert > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 4:40 PM, wrote: > > > > > > > Beth, Robert, and the others forming a ?(we)?. > > > > > > > > Beth said it is the ?()? within the ?()? that interests her [as > being]. > > > > Maybe Framing is ALL communication, ALL thought, ALL consciousness > .... > > > > Bateson?.... but Beth thinks we need to tackle framing head on [face > > > into] > > > > when discussing perezhivanie. > > > > > > > > Now I noticed that Wolff-Michael Roth included in the title of his > book > > > > the phrase ? mathematics of mathematics - and my mind wondered to > > > > conjecture if this is going ?meta? and if ?()? is also going ?meta?. > > > > > > > > Could Beth?s ?()? as symbolic also have another aspect [or side] that > > is > > > > () = bracket and the doubling ?()? = bracketing the bracket. These > > > moves > > > > as examples of going ?meta? which also plays with saying/not saying > or > > > > revealing/concealing that Ed Wall recently posted when he said: > > > > The truth of the proposition, in effect, resides in the possibility > of > > > > bringing its referents into the light (here is where aletheia takes a > > > > part); I.e. uncovering. That is, on the LEVEL of ?apophantic as? > things > > > are > > > > propositionally either true or false, but on the LEVEL of the > > > ?hermeneutic > > > > as? they are neither. > > > > > > > > However, the ?apophantic as? IS (its being) grounded in > interpretation, > > > > I.e. the ?hermeneutic as? (its being). For Heidegger (and this is an > > > > oversimplification) ?hermeneutic truth? IS in effect (in use) > > DISclosure. > > > > ..... complicated because if one surfaces [metaphor of LEVELS] to the > > > > apophantic then, in effect (in use) there is a covering back up > > > > (closure).... Also, and this is most important, the consequent would > > not > > > be > > > > an understanding of Trump?s speech, but an understanding > (interpreting) > > > of > > > > how ?(I)? understand (interpret) Trump?s speech. > > > > > > > > I am travelling back and forth exploring saying as () generating > > effects > > > > IN USE, and then doubling back and exploring the () generating > effects > > IN > > > > USE through ?()? interpretation of the uses. To go hear would have > to > > > > bring in Umberto Eco who pleads for us to make a distinction between > > > ?use? > > > > and ?interpretation? AS aspects of semiosis and semiotic but this is > > for > > > > another turn. > > > > > > > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > > > > > > > From: Beth Ferholt > > > > Sent: February 5, 2017 6:38 PM > > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fate of a Man > > > > > > > > Thanks for the calling out to Monica and me, Mike and Andy -- I had > to > > > stop > > > > checking XMCA for a couple of weeks so I did not see the discussion > or > > > your > > > > notes to me in the chain, until today. One of the the strengths of > > XMCA > > > is > > > > that it creates a conversation that can include people who can not > > > always? > > > > respond that very day, or even week, due to various forms of > > > interruption! > > > > Often these "interruptions" are children or political events, which > > canY > > > > help us to understand perezhivanie. > > > > > > > > As well as spending time at JFK, recently, many of us here in New > York > > > have > > > > been attending local protests to keep our neighborhoods feeling safe > > for > > > > everyone. I live in a neighborhood in Brooklyn that includes several > > > > Muslim communities and several Jewish communities (as well as a few > > > Russian > > > > and Polish communities), and at the local protests these past few > weeks > > > > some people have had photographs of their family members who were > > killed > > > by > > > > the Nazis attached to the back of their "never again" signs. Also we > > all, > > > > Muslim, Jewish, etc. families, have been often bringing our children > > to > > > > the protests. > > > > > > > > So I have been thinking a lot about children and hope, during the > past > > > few > > > > weeks. It is within this frame that I saw this film. I think the > film > > > was > > > > expecting us to see the child as only benefitting from the main > > > character's > > > > lying, saying that he was the child's father, and of course the child > > did > > > > benefit, but I think that perezhivanie is about truth, somehow, > > although > > > I > > > > am not sure how. > > > > > > > > My second thought is that Manchester by the Sea must have been > > > referencing > > > > this film, with its return-to-the-space-where-the-house-was scene, > and > > > > also > > > > with the choice to replace the lost self (as father) / family or > no. I > > > > think it might help this conversation if we all saw both films, > > actually. > > > > Two thoughts on this methods suggestion for our conversation, before > I > > > > return to the topic itself. > > > > > > > > 1) It is odd how closely the two films are related, as I did not know > > > that > > > > the two films were related when I told Chris to see Manchester by the > > Sea > > > > in relation to thinking about perezhivanie. I told Chris when I saw > > him > > > in > > > > person, and I think that discussions about perezhivanie are often > > > different > > > > in person. We learned at LCHC in the 2004/5 playworld projects that > > > these > > > > in person discussions about perezhivanie have a pronounced proleptic > > > > structure, mirroring the topic of study, such that the conclusion of > > the > > > > discussion appears at the start: It feels like magic is happening. > (I > > > > think this has something to do with how good teachers see the things > in > > > > their classroom that are useful or no before they happen or "behind > > their > > > > heads" ... when you are very present you have this "sixth sense," > which > > > is > > > > really an experience of time moving in two directions at once ... > being > > > > very present can often require a lot of in person time and being with > > > > children speeds up the process.) > > > > > > > > 2) It is a strength that the XMCA conversations can continue through > > all > > > of > > > > our different schedules. It is a negative that they are not in > person, > > > and > > > > seeing films together can really help. This is where we went on the > > > > perezhivanie facebook page when it was briefly in English and in > > Russian > > > -- > > > > with a film, and it was very helpful. (Of course I am thinking of > this > > > > while considering the changing role and form of LCHC and Mike's > > > > participation in LCHC and XMCA. I am thinking of the mistakes that > are > > > > communication. A story about this that I thought of recently, which > > > shows > > > > this point well, and seems worth retelling BECAUSE when studying > > > > perezhivanie the form is often (always??) the study of the content: > As > > a > > > > newish graduate student Mike once said "thank you" to me when I made > a > > > > comment in the afternoon about an AM conversation that day. Mike's > > > "thank > > > > you" encouraged me to pay extra attention to this comment/thought of > > > mine, > > > > which later became important in our analysis of a > difficult-to-decipher > > > > playworld event. I was thinking of this event as I walked and talked > > > with > > > > a doctoral student of my own -- I seem to have a heavily spacial > memory > > > > process and my student and I were walking through a doorway -- and I > > > > suddenly realized that Mike could have been thanking me for holding > the > > > > door for him at this time in the past when his feedback was so > > important > > > to > > > > me ... maybe he did not hear my comment, but just thanked me for > > holding > > > > the door ... in fact it now appears to me that this was probably the > > > case!) > > > > > > > > The interesting thing to me about the above 2 points is the framing. > > It > > > IS > > > > the "()" within the "()" that interests me. Maybe Framing is all > > > > communication or all thought or consciousness ... Bateson? ... but I > > > think > > > > we need to tackle framing head on when discussing perezhivanie. The > > two > > > > films are very different in regards to framing, I think this is why > > they > > > > are most interesting to think about together, but first I have two > > > > citations for thinking about time that I use frequently in my writing > > on > > > > perezhivanie. > > > > > > > > These seem worth repeating here, as this thinking about time in > > > space/time > > > > seems to me to be thinking about framing ... the "()" makes us double > > > back > > > > in time as we read -- : > > > > > > > > (As to Performance, Alfredo copied the Schechner quote above.) > > > > > > > > Dewey's relation of the notion of object to prolepsis (on XMCA): > > > > Mike (2007) used the term ?temporally double sided? to describe this > > > > phenomenon of growing back and towards the future and the past > > > > simultaneously. > > > > > > > > What I am (still) thinking about, now, most often: > > > > It is the juxtaposition of temporal double sidedness with stages that > > > > creates perezhivanie. What Schechner argues is that this > juxtaposition > > > > provides the rhythm that allows us to raise ourselves up and hover, > > > > suspended momentarily in a state of being simultaneously ourselves > and > > > not > > > > ourselves: our past and future selves (someone else). > > > > > > > > So my first point is about framing and my second is about children. > > The > > > > Fate Of Man is all about the frames / "()". The stories are nested > > within > > > > eachother, repeating themselves, maybe even sort of like a fractal, > or > > > > anyhow a spiral? I have some congenital prosopagnosia, getting worse > > as > > > I > > > > age and definitely bad with a film like this. I kept thinking we > were > > > back > > > > at the ferry as the form of the conversation and context images > > repeated > > > > themselves, as I could not recognize the face of the character who > was > > > the > > > > audience for our hero's story! Manchester by the Sea, on the other > > hand, > > > > had no frames. We just jumped right in and rode it through. I only > saw > > > > Manchester once but do others think this is true? relevant? > > > > > > > > I think that the question of children's position in relation to adult > > > > perezhivanie is central in both of these films. The children in both > of > > > > these films appear to want the main characters to try again at being > > > > fathers. This is a critique of films about children -- I can not > think > > > of > > > > the name of the person who made this critique, but I can find it for > > > anyone > > > > if needed -- : We adults often make films not about children but > about > > > our > > > > own childhoods. We make films about children who are no longer with > > us. > > > > But is this really best for the films, as films are usually best when > > > they > > > > are somehow in dialogue with their topic, this is a characteristic of > > the > > > > medium, no? > > > > > > > > If you do not have some pretense, some playing again, you can not > have > > > > perezhivanie. But I think that Fate of Man is not about > perezhivanie, > > > > although in a different way than Manchester by the Sea is not about > > > > perezhivanie. In Manchester by the Sea there is no other with whom > to > > > > perezhivanie because the main character and his former wife still > love > > > each > > > > other, or at lease he still loves her and she returns enough of the > > love > > > to > > > > keep him loving her, and neither of them can pull the other up > because > > > they > > > > both hit bottom together and in the same story. In Fate of Man there > > is > > > is > > > > no chance for perezhivanie because the other needs to be involved in > > some > > > > honest way, or there is no dialogue. > > > > > > > > In Fate of Man the hero seems to me to be playing out his memory in > the > > > > real world. A child is not an other with whom one can ever > > perezhivanie. > > > > This is not perezhivanie as there is no real world as a player, and > > this > > > is > > > > why our hero's heart will fail him. He did not reach bottom and then > > > start > > > > to pull himself up by connecting with another with great bravery. > > > Instead, > > > > as he says himself, he just snapped -- he is now living in a dream. > > > > > > > > As Larry put it, above in this chain: "In other words, navigating > > through > > > > the suffering and existential emptiness is not a hero?s journey." And > > > this > > > > point is relevant, again, to our method for studying perezhivanie. I > > > don't > > > > think we can manage this one on our own (XMCA), even as a group that > > > allows > > > > for conversations over extended time periods. > > > > > > > > If form and content are related in this process, I'd say that we > won't > > > > understand this process until we see children as full people. And > > > > simultaneously as children. Children have something to tell us about > > > this > > > > process that no one else can tell us, and they are not going to tell > us > > > > this in a way that those of us who are researchers/scholars can > listen, > > > > without the bridge of the teacher voices. How to include these > voices > > in > > > > our research is key. And the answer has something to do with art, as > > > well > > > > as with time and space. > > > > > > > > I am going to send this as it is long enough already, and then catch > up > > > > with the related chains after I do ... And I won't say more now, but > I > > > > agree with all the people who thought this was a great pick to start > > the > > > > discussion. Many levels to discuss and I also found many aspects of > > the > > > > film related to perezhivanie in many ways! Beth > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 11:51 PM, Andy Blunden > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > How about a documentary movie about the first Trump voter who dies > > as a > > > > > result of repeal of Obama Care? That would be a perezhivanie > within a > > > > > perezhivanie! > > > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > Andy Blunden > > > > > http://home.mira.net/~andy > > > > > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective- > > decision-making > > > > > On 21/01/2017 12:03 PM, Helena Worthen wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> I am late to this discussion, but I have been paying attention. I > > was > > > > >> reluctant to expose myself to the emotional challenges of the > film. > > I > > > > knew > > > > >> that between the majestic music, the stunning black and white > > images, > > > > the > > > > >> beautiful human faces and bodies (and some very ugly ones), and > the > > > > twists > > > > >> of the story, I was going to be deeply moved. However, I have been > > > > reading > > > > >> two books by Svetlana Alexievich -- Voices from Chernobyl and > > > Secondhand > > > > >> Time - which tell equally heartbreaking, horrifying stories of > > > > suffering. > > > > >> Reading her work inclines me to place the film in the context of > the > > > > period > > > > >> of deStalinization after Kruschev's 1956 speech to the 20th > Congress > > > of > > > > the > > > > >> CPSU, which gave the signal that it was permissible to begin to > talk > > > > freely > > > > >> about Soviet history. It was a period of trying to build a story > > that > > > > could > > > > >> explain and honor, if not justify, the extreme suffering of the > > Soviet > > > > >> people. This film seems to me to set out to accomplish that. So > does > > > > >> Alexievich's book, which is a compilation of interviews done > between > > > > 1991 > > > > >> and 2012, with people who had something to say (good and bad) > about > > > the > > > > >> Soviet regime and the experience of its dissolution. She got the > > 2015 > > > > Nobel > > > > >> Prize for this book. And I sense that Andy, or someone, is > > > anticipating > > > > >> that the US is going to have to produce some works of scholarship > or > > > > art, > > > > >> or both, that attempt to explain what is happening now here in the > > US > > > -- > > > > >> for example, this afternoon, under President Trump. > > > > >> > > > > >> Helena Worthen > > > > >> helenaworthen@gmail.com > > > > >> Vietnam blog: helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > > > >> > > > > >> On Jan 19, 2017, at 4:00 PM, Christopher Schuck wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >> For some reason I couldn't see the subtitles showing up in Fate > of a > > > Man > > > > >>> the first time, so I started to watch it dubbed in English > instead. > > > But > > > > >>> the > > > > >>> mannered Hollywood accents definitely were not exactly helping to > > > > convey > > > > >>> the "real Russian soul" Robbins talks about! It felt like I was > > being > > > > >>> asked > > > > >>> to imagine Cary Grant inhabiting Andrei's perezhivanie-ing body. > > So, > > > I > > > > >>> started over with the subtitled version. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Here are some quick initial reflections: wonderful movie, and in > > > Andrei > > > > >>> one > > > > >>> of the more memorable characters I have seen. But I also found > > myself > > > > >>> thinking how big a difference there is between watching a film on > > my > > > > >>> 12-inch laptop with headphones (my only option at the moment), > and > > > > >>> sitting > > > > >>> back and immersing yourself in a darkened theater or at least on > a > > > > >>> widescreen TV without any other distractions, allowing ourselves > to > > > > "fall > > > > >>> into this space" by virtue of our very awareness of the illusion > > > > >>> generated > > > > >>> by the frame, as Beth and Monica put it. This difference becomes > > even > > > > >>> bigger if the screen you're viewing it on also enables you to > > quickly > > > > >>> check > > > > >>> email from time to time during the movie, as many people do these > > > days. > > > > >>> If > > > > >>> we are to consider the film experience as a model (analogy?) for > > > > >>> perezhivanie or even a certain kind of simulation of it, this > > effect > > > > that > > > > >>> occurs when we lose ourselves in a film would be undermined by an > > > > >>> especially small frame or poor viewing conditions. At what point > > does > > > > >>> "the > > > > >>> knowledge that the movement we experience is just an illusion" > (p. > > 2 > > > in > > > > >>> their article) undermine the perezhivanie-like quality of film as > > > > opposed > > > > >>> to forming an integral part of it? And, might the way distraction > > > > >>> functions > > > > >>> to undermine perezhivanie in the context of film in any way > mirror > > > how > > > > we > > > > >>> "distract" ourselves in the course of living lives from conscious > > > > >>> engagement with the perezhivanie we are otherwise undergoing? Is > > > > viewing > > > > >>> a > > > > >>> film on a 12-inch screen while checking email and calling it an > > > > >>> "experience" in any way analogous to the self-deceptions and > > escapes > > > we > > > > >>> engage in during the course of either experience-as-struggle or > > > > >>> experience-as-contemplation? I did not check email while watching > > > Fate > > > > >>> of a > > > > >>> Man, by the way. Just in case you're wondering. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> As for the film itself: I was struck by the incidental way in > which > > > the > > > > >>> earlier loss of his childhood family is introduced and > acknowledged > > > at > > > > >>> the > > > > >>> very outset, and how this contrasts with the dramatic ongoing > > > > >>> perezhivanie > > > > >>> that ensues going forward: it is as if this early loss is "taken > > for > > > > >>> granted" as also part of the Russian experience. We are not > privy > > to > > > > any > > > > >>> perezhivanie he might have presumably undergone before that > point; > > it > > > > is > > > > >>> simply not "within the frame." At several points, I was reminded > of > > > > >>> Satyajit's World of Apu (last movie in his trilogy), where there > > was > > > > >>> also a > > > > >>> set of early losses and a relationship formed with a "son." Have > > any > > > of > > > > >>> you > > > > >>> seen it? I think it would also be a good example of perezhivanie. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> I would not want to overemphasize the use of literary motifs, > since > > > > >>> Bondarchuk was presumably not making any references to the > concept > > of > > > > >>> perezhivanie as such. But there were several devices that evoked > > Beth > > > > and > > > > >>> Monica's passage from To The Lighthouse ("Time stand still > here"), > > > and > > > > >>> their metaphor of a life (or more specifically, a perezhivanie > > > within a > > > > >>> life) spiraling back over itself to bring two disparate moments > > into > > > > >>> juxtaposition in a way such that "your life becomes > > three-dimensional > > > > >>> again" (p. 2). One occurs in the various scenes when Andrei gazes > > up > > > at > > > > >>> the > > > > >>> sky in reverie and all we see are clouds, or the scene where he > > lies > > > in > > > > >>> the > > > > >>> grass after his first escape and the camera pans back as it > becomes > > > > very > > > > >>> quiet, leaving nothing but him swallowed up in the vastness of > > > nature. > > > > >>> There is a certain timeless quality to these scenes, a sense that > > he > > > is > > > > >>> momentarily transcending the linear temporal flow of his life as > he > > > > >>> either > > > > >>> stands outside it and "stands still" in it. It could be a > thousand > > > > years > > > > >>> passing by in those clouds, or just the 17 years of his second > > phase; > > > > it > > > > >>> suddenly doesn't matter. Another thing I noticed was the use of > the > > > two > > > > >>> musical themes: the love song the accordionist plays for him and > > > Irina, > > > > >>> and > > > > >>> the festive music incongruously piped in at the concentration > camp > > > > during > > > > >>> that amazing scene around Part 1, minute 45 where the prisoners > are > > > > being > > > > >>> marched in and the crematorium is going full blast down the road. > > At > > > > some > > > > >>> point (I couldn't relocate it) Andrei has a flashback where he > > > revisits > > > > >>> the > > > > >>> love song and his memories of Irina; then at minute 20 in Part 2, > > > while > > > > >>> processing his family's death after coming home from the war, he > > > finds > > > > >>> himself hearing the concentration camp song on the record player > > and > > > is > > > > >>> suddenly transported back to that traumatic experience. Yet he > does > > > not > > > > >>> smash the record right away; he stares at it for a minute, almost > > as > > > if > > > > >>> he > > > > >>> is resituating these two moments in relation to each other. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Perhaps I am overanalyzing, but I found both these motifs to > speak > > to > > > > >>> Beth > > > > >>> and Monica's examples in the way they bring two moments back into > > > > contact > > > > >>> with each other. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Finally, Mike and Andy's discussion in the Misha thread about the > > > > >>> watching > > > > >>> of a film functioning as perezhivanie for those viewers for whom > it > > > > >>> reflects and repeats their own experience, raises a question > about > > > the > > > > >>> difference between extended perezhivanie and the personal > > > re-enactment > > > > of > > > > >>> one's perezhivanie within a much smaller time scale (the two or > > three > > > > >>> hours > > > > >>> spent watching the movie). I hope at some point we could delve > more > > > > into > > > > >>> this issue of time frame and time scale in various forms of > > > > perezhivanie. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Chris > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 8:39 PM, Andy Blunden > > > > > wrote: > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Thank you Marc! It was the third "plane" which was my intention > in > > > > >>>> providing "Fate of a Man" for discussion. You picked out what > were > > > for > > > > >>>> me > > > > >>>> also the main (but by no means the only) instances of > > perezhivanija > > > in > > > > >>>> this > > > > >>>> movie. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> It seems to me that Sokolov (the author) offers one perezhivanie > > in > > > > >>>> particular as the main theme of the movie. At the beginning of > the > > > > >>>> movie, > > > > >>>> the man and boy walk up the path to the camera and at the end of > > the > > > > >>>> movie > > > > >>>> they walk off together again. So this is the central theme. As > you > > > > say, > > > > >>>> when Sokolov's family has all been killed, even his talented > > > war-hero > > > > >>>> son > > > > >>>> who was going to be a famous mathematician, his life has become > > > > >>>> meaningless. I really liked your reflections of Sokolov's > > > reflections > > > > >>>> too. > > > > >>>> He sees the young orphan boy who, he discovers, has no family > and > > > > >>>> doesn't > > > > >>>> even know what town he comes from, but is aimlessly living on > > pieces > > > > of > > > > >>>> rubbish. He sees that the two of them are in the same situation. > > So > > > > >>>> after > > > > >>>> some time mulling this over a they sit together in the truck, he > > > lies > > > > to > > > > >>>> the boy and tells him that he is the boy's father, and they > > embrace. > > > > But > > > > >>>> the boy questions this and he reasserts his claim and the boy > > > accepts > > > > >>>> this. > > > > >>>> The man is able to define a new meaning for his life; he has > done > > > this > > > > >>>> autonomously without the help of a therapist, but he still needs > > > > >>>> another, > > > > >>>> the boy, to embody that meaning. But he knows it is his own > > > invention. > > > > >>>> The > > > > >>>> boy on the other hand has to be made to believe it is true; he > is > > > not > > > > >>>> sufficiently mature to manufacture this meaning himself, but as > a > > > > child > > > > >>>> he > > > > >>>> can be guided by an adult. As you say, Marc, it is very > > significant > > > > when > > > > >>>> Sokolov tells us how he is now, again, worried about his own > > death. > > > > >>>> What if > > > > >>>> I died in my sleep? that would be a shock for my son! > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> For me, this reflection causes me to look back on the man's > whole > > > > >>>> struggle > > > > >>>> during the war: in the first phase he does not differentiate > > between > > > > his > > > > >>>> life as a father and husband and his life as a Soviet citizen - > > war > > > is > > > > >>>> his > > > > >>>> duty and he is confident, as is everyone else, of victory. His > > > bravery > > > > >>>> in > > > > >>>> driving his truck to the front line under fire reflects the fact > > > that > > > > he > > > > >>>> has never imagined his own death. Then he finds himself > prostrate > > > > >>>> before 2 > > > > >>>> Nazi soldiers who we assume are going among the wounded shooting > > > > anyone > > > > >>>> who > > > > >>>> has survived. But surprisingly, he is allowed to live, but is to > > be > > > > >>>> used as > > > > >>>> a slave. Sokolov has been confronted by his own mortality for > the > > > > first > > > > >>>> time and he chooses life, but accepts slavery (Sartre and Hegel > > both > > > > >>>> thematize this moment in their philosophy). In this second phase > > of > > > > >>>> Sokolov's life he is a survivor. Everything hinges on surviving > > and > > > > >>>> returning to his wife and family. As you point out, Marc, his > > later > > > > >>>> reflections on this are particularly poignant, when he discovers > > the > > > > >>>> futility of this hope. Eventually, the life of forced labour > > becomes > > > > >>>> unbearable. He cries out: "Why are we forced to dig 3 cubic > metres > > > > when > > > > >>>> 1 > > > > >>>> cubic meter is enough for a grave!" Sokolov has accepted and > > > embraced > > > > >>>> death > > > > >>>> after all. (Transition to the third phase.) To his German > masters > > > this > > > > >>>> is > > > > >>>> an unendurable act of defiance. As David points out, there are > > flaws > > > > in > > > > >>>> the > > > > >>>> scene which follows, but ... he confronts his own death > defiantly, > > > > >>>> stares > > > > >>>> it in the eye, spits on it, and his life again gains meaning as > a > > > > "brave > > > > >>>> Soviet soldier" unafraid of death even in such an impossible > > moment. > > > > Not > > > > >>>> only does he survive, but takes the Nazi Colonel prisoner and > > hands > > > > the > > > > >>>> war > > > > >>>> plans over to the Red Army. Now, when he is offered the chance > to > > > > >>>> return to > > > > >>>> his wife as a war hero he declines and asks to be sent back to > the > > > > >>>> front. > > > > >>>> His life has adopted this new meaning which casts his life as a > > > father > > > > >>>> into > > > > >>>> the shade. He no longer fears death. But he is persuaded to take > > > time > > > > >>>> off > > > > >>>> and learns of the death of his family. As Marc relates, the > > > continued > > > > >>>> survival of his son, who is now also a war hero, provides > > continued > > > > >>>> meaning > > > > >>>> and integrates the two themes in his life. This takes work, as > > Marc > > > > >>>> points > > > > >>>> out, and he has the assistance of an older man, in achieving > this > > > > >>>> redefinition of his life. But tragically, with the death of his > > son > > > > >>>> (and NB > > > > >>>> the end of the war, albeit in victory) his life is again without > > > > >>>> meaning. > > > > >>>> Fourth phase. He has survived, but has no purpose. By becoming a > > > > father > > > > >>>> again (Fifth phase), he regains the fear of death and meaning in > > his > > > > >>>> life. > > > > >>>> It is real work, and we witness this psychological turmoil as he > > > copes > > > > >>>> with > > > > >>>> the idea that this scruffy orphan boy could be a son to him, and > > > > >>>> eventually > > > > >>>> he manages it. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> The transition between each phase is a critical period during > > which > > > > >>>> Sokolov's personality is transformed. Note also, that there is a > > > > >>>> premonition of this perezhivanie in Sokolov's earlier life: his > > > family > > > > >>>> is > > > > >>>> wiped out in the Civil War and the famine of 1922, then he meets > > his > > > > >>>> wife-to-be, also raised in an orphanage, and they together > create > > a > > > > life > > > > >>>> and have 17 happy years before the Nazi invasion intrudes. So > from > > > the > > > > >>>> beginning of the movie we are introduced to the main theme. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> These are the main moments in the movie, which caused me to > select > > > it > > > > >>>> for > > > > >>>> discussion rather than any other movie. Also, there is no doubt > > that > > > > in > > > > >>>> producing this movie in 1958 the Soviet government was engaged > > with > > > > its > > > > >>>> people, in a process of collective perezhivanie and by > reflecting > > on > > > > the > > > > >>>> collective perezhivanie during the period of the war, before and > > > > after, > > > > >>>> they aim to assist the people in collectively assigning meaning > to > > > > this > > > > >>>> terrible suffering and like the man and his "son" walking again > > into > > > > the > > > > >>>> future. As a propaganda movie, of course, it is open to much > > > > criticism, > > > > >>>> but > > > > >>>> that is hardly the point. I appreciate Marc's analysis in terms > of > > > the > > > > >>>> other concepts he has introduced. I wouldn't mind a recap on > > these. > > > In > > > > >>>> terms of Vasilyuk's concepts, Sokolov's life-world is *simple > and > > > > >>>> difficult*. The boy's life world is *simple and easy*. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Can we continue to discuss "Fate of a Man", while I open another > > > movie > > > > >>>> for > > > > >>>> analysis? I think there are at least 10 subscribers to this list > > who > > > > >>>> have > > > > >>>> published in learned journals on the topic of perezhivanie in > > > > childhood. > > > > >>>> Perhaps one of you would like to reflect on the boy's > > perezhivanija? > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Andy > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > >>>> Andy Blunden > > > > >>>> http://home.mira.net/~andy > > > > >>>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective- > > > decision-making > > > > >>>> On 18/01/2017 5:14 AM, Marc Clar? wrote: > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Hi, all, > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> and thank you, Andy, for sharing this amazing film, which I > > didn't > > > > >>>>> know. I > > > > >>>>> think it will be very useful to share and discuss our > respective > > > > views > > > > >>>>> on > > > > >>>>> perezhivanie. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> In my view, the film could be analyzed in terms of perezhivanie > > in > > > > >>>>> three > > > > >>>>> different planes. First, we could consider the person who > watches > > > the > > > > >>>>> film, > > > > >>>>> and we could study how the meaning she forms for the film > > > > restructures > > > > >>>>> her > > > > >>>>> relationship with aspects of her real life -such as, for > example, > > > her > > > > >>>>> own > > > > >>>>> death or the death of a beloved one, etc. (perhaps this is a > > little > > > > bit > > > > >>>>> like what Beth and Monica, or Veresov and Fleer, do with their > > > study > > > > of > > > > >>>>> playworlds?). In this plane, which would be perhaps the most > > > > >>>>> naturalistic > > > > >>>>> one, the film could be studied as an human-made cultural > artifact > > > > which > > > > >>>>> restuctures psychological functions; here, the meaning formed > for > > > the > > > > >>>>> film > > > > >>>>> by who watches it and uses it as mediator in her relation to > her > > > real > > > > >>>>> life > > > > >>>>> would be an m-perezhivanie. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> In a second plane, we could proceed as if the film was real > life, > > > and > > > > >>>>> we > > > > >>>>> could consider Sokolov telling his story to the man he meets by > > the > > > > >>>>> river > > > > >>>>> (a little bit like Carla telling her story to me). In this > plane, > > > > >>>>> Sokolov's > > > > >>>>> narrative (i.e., what is showed to us as narrated flashback) > > could > > > be > > > > >>>>> considered as a cultural artifact that Sokolov uses to relate > to > > > all > > > > >>>>> what > > > > >>>>> happened to him. At this plane, the meaning of this narrative > > would > > > > be > > > > >>>>> the > > > > >>>>> m-perezhivanie that, in that moment, mediates the relationship > > > > between > > > > >>>>> Sokolov and the war events he experienced years ago (but these > > > events > > > > >>>>> are > > > > >>>>> still very present to him, so although relating to past events, > > > there > > > > >>>>> is > > > > >>>>> here a Sokolov's activity [towards the past war events] which > is > > in > > > > >>>>> present > > > > >>>>> -this echoes Christopher when, within our conversations, said: > > > ?Part > > > > of > > > > >>>>> this might also be a question of what it means to describe and > > > > >>>>> represent > > > > >>>>> one's own perezhivanie figuratively/narratively (whether to > > others, > > > > or > > > > >>>>> to > > > > >>>>> oneself), as opposed to living that perezhivanie. Especially if > > the > > > > >>>>> attempt > > > > >>>>> to capture/represent one's own perezhivanie is, perhaps, also > > > central > > > > >>>>> to > > > > >>>>> the living of it?? > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> In a third plane, we could proceed as if Sokolov's narration > was > > > not > > > > a > > > > >>>>> retrospective narration, but the on-time sequence of events > with > > > > >>>>> on-time > > > > >>>>> Sokolov's explanation of these events (in the moments in which > > the > > > > >>>>> narrator > > > > >>>>> voice is assumed within the flashback). In this plane, there > are > > > > >>>>> several > > > > >>>>> interesting perezhivanie phenomena. Clearly, there is a > Sokolov's > > > > >>>>> activity > > > > >>>>> of experiencing-as-struggle, which initiates when he realizes > > that > > > > all > > > > >>>>> his > > > > >>>>> family, except one son, had been killed 2 years ago. At this > > > moment, > > > > >>>>> his > > > > >>>>> life becomes meaningless; the meaning (m-perezhivanie) he uses > to > > > > >>>>> relate > > > > >>>>> to > > > > >>>>> all his life (including the past) at this moment is expressed > in > > > his > > > > >>>>> conversation with his oncle: ?it's got to be that this life of > > mine > > > > is > > > > >>>>> nothing but a nightmare!?. In this moment, Sokolov's past in > the > > > > >>>>> prision > > > > >>>>> camp becomes also meaningless: then, his link to life (the > > > > >>>>> m-perezhivanie > > > > >>>>> that made being alive meaningful to him) was meeting his > family; > > > but > > > > at > > > > >>>>> that time his family was already dead, so when he discovers it, > > he > > > > >>>>> realizes > > > > >>>>> that this m-perezhivanie (the idea of meeting his family) was > > > linking > > > > >>>>> him > > > > >>>>> to death, not to life, so all his efforts to surviving become > > > > >>>>> meaningless: > > > > >>>>> ?Every night, when I was a prisioner, I talked with them. Now > it > > > > turns > > > > >>>>> out > > > > >>>>> that for two years I was talking with the dead??. In this > > > > conversation, > > > > >>>>> however, his oncle offers him an alternative m-perezhivanie to > > > relate > > > > >>>>> to > > > > >>>>> his life: he still has a son, so the m-perehivanie of meeting > his > > > > >>>>> family > > > > >>>>> can still turns Sokolov's life meaningful: ?you've got to go on > > > > living. > > > > >>>>> You > > > > >>>>> have to find Anatoly. When the war is over, your son will get > > > > married, > > > > >>>>> you > > > > >>>>> will live with them. You will take up your carpentry again, > play > > > with > > > > >>>>> your > > > > >>>>> grandkids?. It takes some time to Sokolov to enter into this > > > > >>>>> m-perezhivanie, but he does it and his life becomes meaningful > > > again: > > > > >>>>> ?and > > > > >>>>> then, unexpectedly, I've got a gleam of sunlight?. But, then, > > > Anatoly > > > > >>>>> also > > > > >>>>> dies. How to keep living? Here, Sokolov holds the > m-perezhivanie > > > that > > > > >>>>> linked him to life until that moment, and therefore, he needs a > > > son; > > > > >>>>> pretending being the father of Vanya turns his life meaningful > > > again. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Another interesting thing, still at that level, is how > Sokolov's > > > > >>>>> relation > > > > >>>>> with his own immediate death changes along the different > > occasions > > > in > > > > >>>>> which > > > > >>>>> he faces it. I thing here there are examples of > > > > >>>>> experiencing-as-contemplation -in my view, this is not > > > > >>>>> experiencing-as-struggle because the situation of impossibility > > > (the > > > > >>>>> immediate death) is removed existentially (Sokolov's life is > > given > > > > >>>>> back to > > > > >>>>> him), so that there is not a permanent situation of > impossibility > > > > >>>>> which is > > > > >>>>> initially meaningless and is turned into meaningful. In each > > > occasion > > > > >>>>> in > > > > >>>>> which Sokolov is faced with his immediate death, the > > m-perezhivanie > > > > >>>>> that > > > > >>>>> mediates this relationship is different. When he is captured, > his > > > > >>>>> m-perezhivanie is expressed as: ?here's my death coming after > > me?. > > > > >>>>> When he > > > > >>>>> is conducted to meet the nazi official, the m-perezhivanie is > > > > expressed > > > > >>>>> as: > > > > >>>>> ?the end of your misery?, ?to my death and my release of this > > > > torment, > > > > >>>>> I > > > > >>>>> will drink?. In the first, the death is running after Sokolov; > in > > > the > > > > >>>>> second, it is Sokolov happily going to meet death. Later, at > the > > > end > > > > of > > > > >>>>> the > > > > >>>>> film, he faces his immediate death again, and the > m-perezhivanie > > is > > > > >>>>> expressed as: ?I'm really worried that I might die in my sleep, > > and > > > > >>>>> that > > > > >>>>> would frighten my little son?. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Well, just some thoughts after watching this wonderful film. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Best regards, > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Marc. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> 2017-01-15 0:06 GMT+01:00 Christopher Schuck < > > > > schuckcschuck@gmail.com > > > > >>>>> >: > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Yes, definitely that article! And specifically, when I used > > > > "pivoting" > > > > >>>>> I > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> couldn't help but think of Beth's earlier example about how a > > > child > > > > >>>>>> will > > > > >>>>>> use a stick as a pivot for a horse. Perhaps a somewhat > different > > > > >>>>>> application but related, no? > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 4:06 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > > > > >>>>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no > > > > >>>>>> wrote: > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Chris, all, > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> your post is totally relevant to Beth's and Monica's article > in > > > the > > > > >>>>>>> special issue. They write about film and perezhivanie > (quoting > > > > >>>>>>> Sobchack) > > > > >>>>>>> the following: > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> The reason that film allows us to glimpse the future is that > > > there > > > > >>>>>>> is a > > > > >>>>>>> connection between filmic time and ?real? time: ?The images > of > > a > > > > film > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> exist > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> in the world as a temporal flow, within finitude and > situation. > > > > >>>>>>> Indeed, > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> the > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> fascination of the film is that it does not transcend our > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> lived-experience > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> of temporality, but rather that it seems to partake of it, to > > > share > > > > >>>>>>> it? > > > > >>>>>>> (1992, p. 60). > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> And later > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> "Specifically, the way that the flow of time becomes > > > > >>>>>>> multidirectional is > > > > >>>>>>> that ?rehearsals make it necessary to think of the future in > > > such a > > > > >>>>>>> way > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> as > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> to create a past? (1985, p. 39). As Schechner ex-plains: ?In a > > > very > > > > >>>>>>> real > > > > >>>>>>> way the future ? the project coming into existence through > the > > > > >>>>>>> process > > > > >>>>>>> of > > > > >>>>>>> rehearsal ? determines the past: what will be kept from > earlier > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> rehearsals > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> or from the ?source ma-terials? (1985, p. 39)." > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> Alfredo > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> ________________________________________ > > > > >>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > > > > > >>>>>>> du> > > > > >>>>>>> on behalf of Christopher Schuck > > > > >>>>>>> Sent: 14 January 2017 21:43 > > > > >>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > > >>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fate of a Man > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> But that's both the limitation and strength of art or > fictional > > > > >>>>>>> narrative > > > > >>>>>>> as opposed to real life, isn't it? That art focuses our > > attention > > > > and > > > > >>>>>>> highlights certain features in a way that is idealized and > > > > >>>>>>> artificially > > > > >>>>>>> "designed" to convey something more clearly and purely (but > > less > > > > >>>>>>> organically and authentically) than it would be conveyed in > the > > > > >>>>>>> course > > > > >>>>>>> of > > > > >>>>>>> living it, or observing someone else living it? One way to > get > > > > around > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> this > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> would be, as David says, to analyze the film in terms of clues > > as > > > to > > > > >>>>>>> the > > > > >>>>>>> stages of emergence. But maybe another way to use the film > > would > > > be > > > > >>>>>>> to > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> view > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> it not so much as a complete, self-sufficient "example" of > > > > >>>>>>> perezhivanie, > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> as > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> a *tool *for pivoting back and forth between the concept of > > > > >>>>>>> perezhivanie > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> as > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> imaginatively constructed (through fiction), and the concept > of > > > > >>>>>>> perezhivanie as imaginatively constructed (through our real > > > living > > > > >>>>>>> experience and observation of it). So, it would be the > > *pivoting* > > > > >>>>>>> between > > > > >>>>>>> these two manifestations of the concept (designed vs. > evolved, > > as > > > > >>>>>>> David > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> put > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> it) that reveals new insights about perezhivanie, rather than > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> understanding > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> the concept from the film per se. > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 3:08 PM, David Kellogg < > > > > dkellogg60@gmail.com > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>> wrote: > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> I think there's a good reason why Andy started a new thread > on > > > > this: > > > > >>>>>>> he's a > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> very tidy thinker (quite unlike yours truly) and he knows > that > > > one > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> reason > > > > >>>>>>> why xmca threads are seldom cumulative is that they digress > to > > > > >>>>>>> related > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> problems without solving the immmediate ones. > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> Yes, of course, a film allows us to consider an example of > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> "perezhivanie", > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> but it is a designed perezhivanie rather than an evolved one; > > it > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> doesn't > > > > >>>>>>> explicitly display the various stages of emergence required > > for a > > > > >>>>>>> genetic > > > > >>>>>>> analysis, unless we analyze it not as a complete and finished > > > work > > > > of > > > > >>>>>>> art > > > > >>>>>>> but instead for clues as to the stages of its creation (the > way > > > > that, > > > > >>>>>>> for > > > > >>>>>>> example, "Quietly Flows the Don" was analyzed to determine > its > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> authenticity). > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> I remember that In the original short story, the schnapps > > > drinking > > > > >>>>>>>> scene seemed like pure sleight of hand: an artistically > > > gratuitous > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> example > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> of what eventually gave Soviet social realism such a bad > name. > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> David Kellogg > > > > >>>>>>>> Macquarie University > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 10:04 PM, Carol Macdonald < > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> carolmacdon@gmail.com > > > > >>>>>>> wrote: > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> Fellow XMCa-ers > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> I have watched it through now, thank you Andy, but right > now > > > only > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> empirical > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> psychological categories come to mind. I will watch it > again > > > and > > > > in > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> the > > > > >>>>>>>> meanwhile let my fellows with more recent experience of > > > > >>>>>>>> /perezhivanie/ > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> take > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> the discussion further. > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> It is a kind of timeless story, and modern film techniques > > > would > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> perhaps > > > > >>>>>>>> be > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> more explicit. At the least I would say it has for me a > > Russian > > > > >>>>>>>>> understanding of suffering, perhaps because of their unique > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> experience > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> of > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> it. But having said that, WWII must have generated other > > similar > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> experiences, apart from the first part about Andrei's > family > > > > dying > > > > >>>>>>>>> in > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> the > > > > >>>>>>>> famine. > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> Carol > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> On 14 January 2017 at 02:15, Andy Blunden < > ablunden@mira.net > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> wrote: > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> I watched it in two parts with subtitles: > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16w7fg_destiny-of-a- > man- > > > > >>>>>>>>>> 1959-pt-1_creation > > > > >>>>>>>>>> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16wat4_destiny-of-a- > man- > > > > >>>>>>>>>> 1959-pt-2_creation > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Andy > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ > > ------------------------------ > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Andy Blunden > > > > >>>>>>>>>> http://home.mira.net/~andy > > > > >>>>>>>>>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective- > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> decision-making > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> On 14/01/2017 2:35 AM, Beth Ferholt wrote: > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> Thank you for taking us to a shared example. I think that > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> having a > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> -- > > > > >>>>>>>>> Carol A Macdonald Ph.D (Edin) > > > > >>>>>>>>> Cultural Historical Activity Theory > > > > >>>>>>>>> Honorary Research Fellow: Department of Linguistics, Unisa > > > > >>>>>>>>> alternative email address: tmacdoca@unisa.ac.za > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Beth Ferholt > > > > Assistant Professor > > > > Department of Early Childhood and Art Education > > > > Brooklyn College, City University of New York > > > > 2900 Bedford Avenue > > > > Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 > > > > > > > > Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu > > > > Phone: (718) 951-5205 > > > > Fax: (718) 951-4816 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Robert Lake Ed.D. > > > Associate Professor > > > Social Foundations of Education > > > Dept. of Curriculum, Foundations, and Reading > > > Georgia Southern University > > > P. O. Box 8144, Statesboro, GA 30460 > > > Secretary/Treasurer-AERA- Paulo Freire Special Interest Group > > > Webpage: https://georgiasouthern.academia.edu/RobertLake*Those who > have > > > never despaired have neither lived nor loved. Hope is inseparable from > > > despair. Those of us who truly hope make despair a constant companion > > whom > > > we outwrestle every day owing to our commitment to justice, love, and > > > hope* ( > > > Cornel West, 2008, p. 185). > > > > > > > > > -- > Beth Ferholt > Assistant Professor > Department of Early Childhood and Art Education > Brooklyn College, City University of New York > 2900 Bedford Avenue > Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 > > Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu > Phone: (718) 951-5205 > Fax: (718) 951-4816 > > -- Beth Ferholt Assistant Professor Department of Early Childhood and Art Education Brooklyn College, City University of New York 2900 Bedford Avenue Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu Phone: (718) 951-5205 Fax: (718) 951-4816 From ulvi.icil@gmail.com Fri Feb 10 06:39:28 2017 From: ulvi.icil@gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?VWx2aSDEsMOnaWw=?=) Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 16:39:28 +0200 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: A methodological question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9N1LGKNRzXs I think that, one of the most strong ideological blows to capitalism and imperialism and existing world order, at least ideologically, was his sentence that, "Human rights are spoken frequently, but we must speak of the rights of the humanity as well". In one sentence, this forner guerilla, now a soldier of ideas as he called himself later, he destoyed this one of the most important ideological weapons of imperialism and if, movements in the 1st world and also 2nd world, from that time on, could have adopted this "discourse" , this new concept, this new ideological weapon for humanity against imperialism, now our world would be much different than today...because imperialism kills the consciences of billions of human being with such weapons, turn them into "dead souls" without ability to think and to act... On 10 February 2017 at 10:53, Ulvi ??il wrote: > Thanks David and Ed and all. > > > > > > > On 10 February 2017 at 00:55, Edward Wall wrote: > >> David >> >> I was thinking of the SFL version of RST (I think - although I didn?t >> check - that the particular tool on this site incorporates some of >> Mathiessen?s ideas). If you know differently, I would appreciate that >> information. I think, doing as you did in your previous email, would work >> well also, but there is, perhaps, with this tool less of a learning curve. >> >> Ed >> >> > On Feb 9, 2017, at 4:39 PM, David Kellogg >> wrote: >> > >> > Right, Ed. Note that there is a systemic-functional version of RST >> > developed by Christian Matthiessen (using "elaboration", "extension", >> and >> > "enhancement" as the main logico-semantic relations that are realized in >> > parataxis, hypotaxis, and embedding (these are structurally different, >> but >> > we can functionally relate them). >> > >> > I've always wondered if there is something developmental going on here. >> > It's a grammatical expression of the genetic law, because parataxis is >> > easily SHARED between speakers, hypotaxis is more intra-mental, and >> > "embedding" is when that intra-mentality can be assumed. >> > >> > The latest analysis I did showed no statistically significant change >> > between first graders and sixth graders in Korean schools in their >> > hypotaxis and parataxis, but a big change in embedding. I think one of >> the >> > reasons that Castro's speeches are so long is that when he embeds, he >> > unpacks with taxis. But the lack of statistical significance in taxis >> was >> > due to extreme variations within groups, dwarfing the variations between >> > them. The embedding was significant between groups: one of the things >> that >> > kids learn about Korean is how to embed. >> > >> > Castro: "This nation has had to face the taming of not one tiger, not >> two >> > tigers, not three tigers, but the taming of 1,000 tigers." >> > >> > Embedding: "of ...." is rankshifted--a noun is embedded in a noun group >> > >> > Castro: "Someone once said that it was a paper tiger, and it is, from a >> > strategic point of view, because some day it will cease being the >> world's >> > owner." >> > >> > Unpacking: "it was a paper tiger" unpacks "tiger" into a sentence >> > (elaboration) and then explains (enhancement) >> > >> > David Kellogg >> > Macquarie University >> > >> > >> > >> > On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 7:08 AM, Edward Wall wrote: >> > >> >> Ulivi >> >> >> >> This is only a suggestion, but you might find rhetorical structure >> theory >> >> interesting if you want to get at embedding (there is a tool for >> analysis >> >> and some discussion: http://www.sfu.ca/rst/06tools/ ) >> >> >> >> Ed >> >>> On Feb 9, 2017, at 3:43 PM, Ulvi ??il wrote: >> >>> >> >>> Dear xmcas, >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> I would like to direct to you a methodological question and to kindly >> >> have >> >>> your idea. >> >>> >> >>> I am reading Fidel Castro's speeches. They are full of critiques of >> >>> neoliberal globalization, capitalism and so on. >> >>> >> >>> If I would like to study those speeches in terms of the adult >> educational >> >>> aspects, elements they possess (because they are addresses to >> conscience >> >>> of the adult world, mostly Cuban people, various sections of Cuban >> people >> >>> and society) I wonder what would be the best methodology. >> >>> >> >>> For a study something like: Critical discourse in Fidel Castro's >> >> speeches. >> >>> >> >>> Not CDA, I suppose, because, my aim will not be looking at what lies >> >> behind >> >>> and hidden in these speeches, because they already demystify >> capitalism >> >>> etc. which means that as an analyst I have a subjectivity which is on >> the >> >>> side of Castro rather than aiming at criticizing him, I intend to make >> >>> visible what he criticizes in the global neoliberal world. >> >>> >> >>> Discourse analysis? >> >>> >> >>> Thinking that I intend to include into the study all the emotional, >> >>> spiritual elements in those speeches, with many evaluations, >> >> qualifications >> >>> like "teaching, medicine nobel professions" etc. >> >>> >> >>> Should I study something on the line like "critical discourse >> (embedded) >> >> in >> >>> Fidel Castro's speeches"? >> >>> >> >>> If yes, how? >> >>> >> >>> And if not, what may be the best possible methodological alternative? >> >>> >> >>> It is so interesting that while I studied the valuable works of Norman >> >>> Fairclough on CDA, on the critique of globalisation etc, which, for >> the >> >>> focus of study, they have, various aspects of capitalist, >> transnational >> >>> company discourse etc, I found that same critique not as an analysis, >> >> but, >> >>> itself, in Fidel Castro's public speeches, criticizing neoliberal >> >>> globalisation etc, so how to study Castro's speech texts?! >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Thank you very much. >> >>> >> >>> Ulvi >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > From smago@uga.edu Fri Feb 10 08:12:25 2017 From: smago@uga.edu (Peter Smagorinsky) Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 16:12:25 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] FW: JoLLE Poetry & Art Submission Call In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, Attached is the call for submission of JoLLE Poetry & Art Spring 2017. Best, Kuo Zhang PhD Student & Graduate Teaching Assistant TESOL and World Language Education Department of Language and Literacy Education College of Education University of Georgia 301A Aderhold Hall Athens, GA 30602 Poetry and Arts Editor, Journal of Language and Literacy Education Follow JoLLE on twitter @Jolle_uga [cid:image001.jpg@01CEA4AC.71367E90] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: JoLLE Poetry and Art Call Sp17.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 319024 bytes Desc: JoLLE Poetry and Art Call Sp17.pdf Url : https://mailman.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/xmca-l/attachments/20170210/9a17bb2d/attachment.pdf From mcole@ucsd.edu Sat Feb 11 10:29:50 2017 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2017 10:29:50 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: [liberationtech] Mobile App for ICE Checkpoints? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This string of messages about the current deportation surge seems worthwhile people knowing about, if only to keep track of the rapidly changing conditions in the social/political system in the US. Various suggestions are made along the way that offer different solutions to those under threat. i have no idea which are most easily appropriated. mike ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Yosem Companys Date: Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 10:11 AM Subject: Re: [liberationtech] Mobile App for ICE Checkpoints? To: Liberation Technologies Cc: Nithin Coca From: Nithin Coca This is one case where we should look abroad for examples, as these types of situations are not abnormal globally. I know that in Iran, there is a tool that is used for avoiding morality police - something that should be easily adaptable to this case (and I believe is open source) https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=gerd.app.gershad https://www.iranhumanrights.org/2016/02/gershad-app/ From: Craig A. Bowman > A few of us are also talking about using the ushahidi ( > https://www.ushahidi.com) platform to do this. In conversations with them > now about how it might work best. > > 11, 2017 at 9:29 AM, Ms. Andrea Morales > < > privateemail248134@progressiveexchange.org il248134@progressiveexchange.org>> wrote: > > One easy way > of doing this would be to use Waze and add "police" check > > points > but add "ICE" in the description of the checkpoint itself. > > > > > On > Feb 11, 2017, at 9:11 AM, Mr. Dan Sisken eexchange.org> wrote: > > > > > > An idea based on this week's > news about increasingly aggressive ICE > > actions targeting immigrant > communities. > > > > > > Does anyone know of any examples of a mobile, > crowd-sourced app that > > could be used to pinpoint ICE checkpoints. > Such an app could be used to > > avoid ICE and for spontaneous > demonstrations. > > > > > > I don't have any connection to activists; > just putting the idea out > > there. > -- Liberationtech is public & archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/ mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at companys@stanford.edu. From lpscholar2@gmail.com Mon Feb 13 07:50:00 2017 From: lpscholar2@gmail.com (lpscholar2@gmail.com) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2017 07:50:00 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] =?utf-8?q?_A_Philosopher_of_Otherness_Dies_When_He=E2=80=99s_Nee?= =?utf-8?q?ded_Most_-_The_Chronicle_of_Higher_Education?= Message-ID: <58a1d5db.8533630a.33cf1.ab71@mx.google.com> A Philosopher of Otherness Dies When He?s Needed Most Difference can inspire wonder or fear. Tzvetan Todorov thrilled to the former, but this is the age of the latter. I thought this may be of interest, Larry http://www.chronicle.com/article/A-Philosopher-of-Otherness-/239178?cid=cr&utm_source=cr&utm_medium=en&elqTrackId=6b00a38ac6154b17ac065fa8053fd8dd&elq=9a699bef4a694554b98249770ab2695e&elqaid=12559&elqat=1&elqCampaignId=5116 Sent from my Windows 10 phone From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Mon Feb 13 14:53:02 2017 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2017 22:53:02 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: =?windows-1252?q?A_Philosopher_of_Otherness_Dies_When_He=92s_?= =?windows-1252?q?Needed_Most_-_The_Chronicle_of_Higher_Education?= In-Reply-To: <58a1d5db.8533630a.33cf1.ab71@mx.google.com> References: <58a1d5db.8533630a.33cf1.ab71@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <1487026383287.19037@iped.uio.no> Thanks for sharing, Larry. I had not been familiar to Todorov's work until media echoed his recent passing away. The article you share is pertinent to xmca threads in that the philosophical questions are brought to bear with regard to ways of coping with the socio-political and moral aspects of the present. A ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of lpscholar2@gmail.com Sent: 13 February 2017 16:50 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] A Philosopher of Otherness Dies When He?s Needed Most - The Chronicle of Higher Education A Philosopher of Otherness Dies When He?s Needed Most Difference can inspire wonder or fear. Tzvetan Todorov thrilled to the former, but this is the age of the latter. I thought this may be of interest, Larry http://www.chronicle.com/article/A-Philosopher-of-Otherness-/239178?cid=cr&utm_source=cr&utm_medium=en&elqTrackId=6b00a38ac6154b17ac065fa8053fd8dd&elq=9a699bef4a694554b98249770ab2695e&elqaid=12559&elqat=1&elqCampaignId=5116 Sent from my Windows 10 phone From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Tue Feb 14 21:38:37 2017 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 05:38:37 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: actions within academia In-Reply-To: <563DC5C2-5A29-4F62-9444-8D6B1D275857@umn.edu> References: <003601d2776d$2cc0a910$8641fb30$@att.net> <003a01d27774$a0aeaf00$e20c0d00$@att.net> <588a1d8b.c280630a.7710d.bdd6@mx.google.com> <002401d277f4$d8da5ac0$8a8f1040$@att.net> <588a317a.1121620a.8e1ba.d866@mx.google.com> <71E849D1-5353-4DDA-BA83-F1DF29820355@gmail.com> <88AB2869-5898-4F23-BB2E-6CCD490C96F7@umn.edu> <1486190026596.25381@iped.uio.no> , <563DC5C2-5A29-4F62-9444-8D6B1D275857@umn.edu> Message-ID: <1487137116958.86707@iped.uio.no> Mike, Richard, this also seems to be part of how academia is taking action, or at least how some professional and lay persons in mental health are doing it: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-mental-health-new-york-times-incapable-being-president-warning-open-letter-a7578831.html Alfredo ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Richard Beach Sent: 04 February 2017 22:46 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] actions within academia Mike, regarding your call for action on campuses, my concern is that people may accept a passive stance as individuals assuming that they lack agency to make change as opposed to achieving distributed agency (Enfield, 2013) through exposure to examples of collective activism so that they achieve agency through co-action with others. Students and researchers could examine examples of current organized efforts from a CHAT perspective in terms of use of certain tools and norms to achieve certain objects/outcomes, for example: - Our Revolution national organization website - Indivisible: A Practical Guide for Resisting the Trump Agenda : Former congressional staffers reveal best practices for making Congress listen - Courage Campaign : A California-based organization of 1.3 million members promoting progressive agendas - Swing Left : Targets swing districts to promote candidates for the 2018 election. Consistent with a CHAT perspective, to avoid students framing the political space in individualist terms?as Trump does in his attacks on critics, it?s also useful for students and researchers to examine issues in terms of competing systems associated with institutional forces and change. For example, in addressing climate change, students and researchers can examine the intersections between ecological, economic, agriculture, legal, political, urban design/housing, transportation, schooling, health care, military, media, and scientific research as systems related to climate change. For example, the agribusiness agricultural system of monocrop/beef production is a major contributor to CO2 emissions related to climate change. Students can also examine examples of legal and political efforts as systems associated with addressing climate change issues , for example, a group of students in Oregon who have a lawsuit in federal courts suing the U. S. Government for failing to address climate change. Richard Beach, Professor Emeritus of English Education, University of Minnesota rbeach@umn.edu Websites: Digital writing , Media literacy , Teaching literature , Identity-focused ELA Teaching , Common Core State Standards , Apps for literacy learning , Teaching about climate change > On Feb 4, 2017, at 11:55 AM, mike cole wrote: > > Richard and Alfredo > > I keep coming back to the question of how we, as academics, located in the > system of higher education, researchers on the social creation of social > inequality, ought to be re-orienting our research in light of the > re-surrection of global nationalist/populism. > > So for me, its important to focus on concrete exemplars that might unloose > this potential: "shock events' possibility not only for separating but for > actually offering opportunities to re-organize and unite priorly separated > forces." > > In a recent discussion at LCHC, this topic came up in terms of how to > connect our research and our undergraduates to the life of the communities > whose children do not make it to the university. Such an effort requires > coordination of a variety of dis-articulated groups with a common concern > about socially and culturally marginalized, econonomically stressed, > communities. > > The challenge of engaging successfully in such work and satisfying the > academic production requirements of their academic personnel committees > seems a major challenge. > > Positive suggestions of how to meet this challenge would be warmly accepted. > > mike > > > > On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 10:33 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > wrote: > >> Thanks for sharing Richard, I had seen Richardson's analysis online. In >> fact the amount of analyses in the media that this crisis is generating is >> overwhelming, but also very encouraging and gives hopes towards >> Richardson's notes on shock events' possibility not only for separating but >> for actually offering opportunities to re-organize and unite priorly >> separated forces. I wonder, if Lincoln managed without the web and the >> i-phone, will it happen today? >> >> Alfredo >> ________________________________________ >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> on behalf of Richard Beach >> Sent: 03 February 2017 00:28 >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Bannon's actions as "shock event" >> >> Here?s an interesting analysis of Bannon?s actions on banning immigrants >> that?s related to Bakhtin?s notion of ?eventness? and Roth?s (2014) >> analysis of ?events-in-the-making? associated with the experience of >> unfolding events with unpredictable consequences. We still don?t know what >> the fallout will be from attempts to implement this ban. >> >>> From Heather Richardson, professor of History at Boston College: >> >> "I don't like to talk about politics on Facebook-- political history is my >> job, after all, and you are my friends-- but there is an important >> non-partisan point to make today. >> >> What Bannon is doing, most dramatically with last night's ban on >> immigration from seven predominantly Muslim countries-- is creating what is >> known as a "shock event." >> >> Such an event is unexpected and confusing and throws a society into chaos. >> People scramble to react to the event, usually along some fault line that >> those responsible for the event can widen by claiming that they alone know >> how to restore order. >> >> When opponents speak out, the authors of the shock event call them >> enemies. As society reels and tempers run high, those responsible for the >> shock event perform a sleight of hand to achieve their real goal, a goal >> they know to be hugely unpopular, but from which everyone has been >> distracted as they fight over the initial event. There is no longer >> concerted opposition to the real goal; opposition divides along the >> partisan lines established by the shock event. >> >> Last night's Executive Order has all the hallmarks of a shock event. It >> was not reviewed by any governmental agencies or lawyers before it was >> released, and counterterrorism experts insist they did not ask for it. >> People charged with enforcing it got no instructions about how to do so. >> Courts immediately have declared parts of it unconstitutional, but border >> police in some airports are refusing to stop enforcing it. >> >> Predictably, chaos has followed and tempers are hot. >> >> My point today is this: unless you are the person setting it up, it is in >> no one's interest to play the shock event game. It is designed explicitly >> to divide people who might otherwise come together so they cannot stand >> against something its authors think they won't like. >> >> I don't know what Bannon is up to-- although I have some guesses-- but >> because I know Bannon's ideas well, I am positive that there is not a >> single person whom I consider a friend on either side of the aisle-- and my >> friends range pretty widely-- who will benefit from whatever it is. >> >> If the shock event strategy works, though, many of you will blame each >> other, rather than Bannon, for the fallout. And the country will have been >> tricked into accepting their real goal. >> >> But because shock events destabilize a society, they can also be used >> positively. We do not have to respond along old fault lines. We could just >> as easily reorganize into a different pattern that threatens the people who >> sparked the event. >> >> A successful shock event depends on speed and chaos because it requires >> knee-jerk reactions so that people divide along established lines. This, >> for example, is how Confederate leaders railroaded the initial southern >> states out of the Union. >> >> If people realize they are being played, though, they can reach across old >> lines and reorganize to challenge the leaders who are pulling the strings. >> This was Lincoln's strategy when he joined together Whigs, Democrats, >> Free-Soilers, anti-Nebraska voters, and nativists into the new Republican >> Party to stand against the Slave Power. >> >> Five years before, such a coalition would have been unimaginable. Members >> of those groups agreed on very little other than that they wanted all >> Americans to have equal economic opportunity. Once they began to work >> together to promote a fair economic system, though, they found much common >> ground. They ended up rededicating the nation to a "government of the >> people, by the people, and for the people." >> >> Confederate leaders and Lincoln both knew about the political potential of >> a shock event. As we are in the midst of one, it seems worth noting that >> Lincoln seemed to have the better idea about how to use it." >> >> >> >> Richard Beach, Professor Emeritus of English Education, University of >> Minnesota >> rbeach@umn.edu >> Websites: Digital writing , Media >> literacy , Teaching literature >> , Identity-focused ELA Teaching < >> http://identities.pbworks.com/>, Common Core State Standards < >> http://englishccss.pbworks.com/>, Apps for literacy learning < >> http://usingipads.pbworks.com/>, Teaching about climate change < >> http://climatechangeela.pbworks.com/> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Jan 26, 2017, at 10:16 AM, Helena Worthen >> wrote: >>> >>> On the subject of dividing, here is an ugly snapshot of the wedge >> getting driven in ? the building trades unions finding common ground with >> Trump as a ?developer.? The other deeply regressive unions are the prison >> guards and police. >>> >>> http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2017/01/building-trades-allow- >> themselves-to-be-played-like-fools >>> >>> I attend monthly discussion groups in the Bay Area organized around >> readings from the magazine Jacobin. I like these because the other >> participants are mostly 20s and early 30s, techies or grad students. Very >> smart, very alert, very well-read and articulate. They are stamped, >> however, with evidence of never having studied history. (Philosophy, yes ? >> which is interesting.) To many of them, the building trades and police >> unions are typical of the political position of labor unions. >>> >>> So they see LIUNA leaders meeting with Trump and smear the whole labor >> movement with it. >>> >>> H >>> >>> Helena Worthen >>> helenaworthen@gmail.com >>> Berkeley, CA 94707 >>> Blog about US and Viet Nam: helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Jan 26, 2017, at 9:26 AM, < >> lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Yes, >>>> Today, the strategy of dividing, leaving us in disarray, is how i >> experience the deluge of draconian executive ?orders? that leaves me >> spinning. >>>> Leaves me questioning where to start. >>>> >>>> Exposing the disarray on the other side in concrete ways (Koch vs >> Mercer) is a valuable addition to our ways of responding. >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my Windows 10 phone >>>> >>>> From: Peg Griffin >>>> Sent: January 26, 2017 8:57 AM >>>> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred to >>>> >>>> At this point, Larry, I'm content to rise to as much concrete as I can >> get near, until at least the late spring, to get at ideas and >> contradictions, to keep moving and supporting so I'm in enough places to >> and bits of the movement to find the productive places for me. >>>> A mini-mission of mine right now is to get people to recognize the >> divide among the big money folks in the US -- the Mercer father daughter >> beat the Koch brothers within the Republican moneyed. >>>> The other side works hard to divide us and take advantage of the >> disarray, so why not pay attention when they are dividing themselves! >>>> No use being a day late and a dollar short about who's who! >>>> Maybe it's just that my great uncle was in vaudeville and showed us >> three yammering nieces a super card game called "52 pick-up." It's not too >> good too often for too long but everyone once in a while it's not a bad >> game. >>>> PG >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of lpscholar2@gmail.com >>>> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 11:02 AM >>>> To: Peg Griffin; 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred to >>>> >>>> Peg, Mike, >>>> Reading these two articles on BigData and remembering how funding will >> be given to academic research that slots into being verified (or negated) >> through BigData is profoundly disturbing and leaves me with a sense of >> inertia at the scope of the alienation involved in this manipulation. >>>> >>>> Using Simmel?s back and forth notion of the relation of (distance and >> intimacy) and finding the proper ratio depending on the events occuring >> then the proper relation between distance and intimacy will be shifting in >> scope in each historical era. >>>> Will our response to the vast distance incarnated through BIgData >> require intimate responses as counterpoint?? >>>> >>>> If this is LIKE the 1930?s, do we have any answers from the past that >> give glimmers of a way forward that can be responsive at scale to the >> distancing of BigData? >>>> >>>> Sent from my Windows 10 phone >>>> >>>> From: Peg Griffin >>>> Sent: January 25, 2017 5:39 PM >>>> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred to >>>> >>>> And here's a Guardian story https://www.theguardian.com/ >> us-news/2016/nov/23/donald-trump-cambridge-analytica-steve-bannon for >> those interested in the post-election ties among the Mercers (father and >> daughter), Bannon, Conway, and Cambridge Analytica. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Peg Griffin >>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2017 7:43 PM >>>> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred to >>>> >>>> Hee hee hee, Mike Cole, you rogue! This is the official Cambridge >> Analytica site https://cambridgeanalytica.org/ But Mike direct you to a >> meatier sit about it! >>>> Peg >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole >>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2017 1:41 PM >>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred to >>>> >>>> https://antidotezine.com/2017/01/22/trump-knows-you/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> From ablunden@mira.net Tue Feb 14 23:30:20 2017 From: ablunden@mira.net (Andy Blunden) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 18:30:20 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] identity expressed or formed by action? Message-ID: I would be interested in any helpful comments (other than suggestions for more books to read) from my xmca psychologist friends on this problem. In discussion with a friend, who is very au fait with contemporary social philosophy, but knows nothing of CHAT, suggested to me a number of ideas intended to be explanatory (rather than descriptive) of current social and political trends. He talks about the rise of "expressive authenticity" since the 1970s and "collective action as a means to express selfhood." In response, I questioned whether there is any such thing as a drive to *express* one's identity, and that rather, collective action (and there is fundamentally no other kind of action) in pursuit of needs of all kinds (spiritual, social and material) is *formative* of identity. A classic case for analysis is the well-known observation that nowadays people purchase (clothes, cars, food, ...) as a means of expressing their identity. I question this, because it presumes that there is the innate drive to express one's identity, which I see no evidence for. I think people adopt dress styles in much the same way that people carry flags - to promote a movement they think positive and to gain social acceptance in it. Identity-formation is a *result* not a cause of this. So, am I wrong? Is identity formation a result or a cause of activity? Andy -- ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden http://home.mira.net/~andy http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making From laure.kloetzer@gmail.com Wed Feb 15 02:21:34 2017 From: laure.kloetzer@gmail.com (Laure Kloetzer) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 11:21:34 +0100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: identity expressed or formed by action? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Andy, Interestingly, I had a very similar discussion with some colleagues recently not on identity but on... waste. The perspective of one of our students was that investigating what waste is can be done via interviews, in order to understand how we decide what to through away. I was arguing that waste is not fully defined before action, but that waste is what we through away. The action of throwing away is formative of what count as "waste". I thought it might help to step back for one second from the tricky question of self-identity and considering more concrete, everyday activities before coming back to it... Best LK 2017-02-15 8:30 GMT+01:00 Andy Blunden : > I would be interested in any helpful comments (other than suggestions for > more books to read) from my xmca psychologist friends on this problem. > > In discussion with a friend, who is very au fait with contemporary social > philosophy, but knows nothing of CHAT, suggested to me a number of ideas > intended to be explanatory (rather than descriptive) of current social and > political trends. He talks about the rise of "expressive authenticity" > since the 1970s and "collective action as a means to express selfhood." In > response, I questioned whether there is any such thing as a drive to > *express* one's identity, and that rather, collective action (and there is > fundamentally no other kind of action) in pursuit of needs of all kinds > (spiritual, social and material) is *formative* of identity. > > A classic case for analysis is the well-known observation that nowadays > people purchase (clothes, cars, food, ...) as a means of expressing their > identity. I question this, because it presumes that there is the innate > drive to express one's identity, which I see no evidence for. I think > people adopt dress styles in much the same way that people carry flags - to > promote a movement they think positive and to gain social acceptance in it. > Identity-formation is a *result* not a cause of this. > > So, am I wrong? Is identity formation a result or a cause of activity? > > Andy > > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > http://home.mira.net/~andy > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making > From ablunden@mira.net Wed Feb 15 02:24:33 2017 From: ablunden@mira.net (Andy Blunden) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 21:24:33 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: identity expressed or formed by action? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9337a569-9845-ba68-3605-11d22180c7a7@mira.net> That's a good answer, Laure. I interpret your answer: activity is the substance of mind, not some given set of concepts. Thank you! Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden http://home.mira.net/~andy http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making On 15/02/2017 9:21 PM, Laure Kloetzer wrote: > Dear Andy, > > Interestingly, I had a very similar discussion with some > colleagues recently not on identity but on... waste. The > perspective of one of our students was that investigating > what waste is can be done via interviews, in order to > understand how we decide what to through away. I was > arguing that waste is not fully defined before action, but > that waste is what we through away. The action of throwing > away is formative of what count as "waste". > I thought it might help to step back for one second from > the tricky question of self-identity and considering more > concrete, everyday activities before coming back to it... > Best > LK > > > 2017-02-15 8:30 GMT+01:00 Andy Blunden >: > > I would be interested in any helpful comments (other > than suggestions for more books to read) from my xmca > psychologist friends on this problem. > > In discussion with a friend, who is very au fait with > contemporary social philosophy, but knows nothing of > CHAT, suggested to me a number of ideas intended to be > explanatory (rather than descriptive) of current > social and political trends. He talks about the rise > of "expressive authenticity" since the 1970s and > "collective action as a means to express selfhood." In > response, I questioned whether there is any such thing > as a drive to *express* one's identity, and that > rather, collective action (and there is fundamentally > no other kind of action) in pursuit of needs of all > kinds (spiritual, social and material) is *formative* > of identity. > > A classic case for analysis is the well-known > observation that nowadays people purchase (clothes, > cars, food, ...) as a means of expressing their > identity. I question this, because it presumes that > there is the innate drive to express one's identity, > which I see no evidence for. I think people adopt > dress styles in much the same way that people carry > flags - to promote a movement they think positive and > to gain social acceptance in it. Identity-formation is > a *result* not a cause of this. > > So, am I wrong? Is identity formation a result or a > cause of activity? > > Andy > > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > http://home.mira.net/~andy > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making > > > > From stephenwals@gmail.com Wed Feb 15 02:36:45 2017 From: stephenwals@gmail.com (Stephen Walsh) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 10:36:45 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: identity expressed or formed by action? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Andy, I think that the answer is both. I think we need to think of identities as heterogeneous rather than homogeneous. Looking at identity (dis)continuity following brain injury is instructive. Research we have conducted with brain injury survivors taking part in post acute community neurorehabilitiation shows that identities deriving from the groups we belong to (affiliative identities; e.g. familiy) generate social support which facilitates the formation of 'self as doer' identities (e.g. painter, walker etc etc). Best Regards, Stephen On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 7:30 AM, Andy Blunden wrote: > I would be interested in any helpful comments (other than suggestions for > more books to read) from my xmca psychologist friends on this problem. > > In discussion with a friend, who is very au fait with contemporary social > philosophy, but knows nothing of CHAT, suggested to me a number of ideas > intended to be explanatory (rather than descriptive) of current social and > political trends. He talks about the rise of "expressive authenticity" > since the 1970s and "collective action as a means to express selfhood." In > response, I questioned whether there is any such thing as a drive to > *express* one's identity, and that rather, collective action (and there is > fundamentally no other kind of action) in pursuit of needs of all kinds > (spiritual, social and material) is *formative* of identity. > > A classic case for analysis is the well-known observation that nowadays > people purchase (clothes, cars, food, ...) as a means of expressing their > identity. I question this, because it presumes that there is the innate > drive to express one's identity, which I see no evidence for. I think > people adopt dress styles in much the same way that people carry flags - to > promote a movement they think positive and to gain social acceptance in it. > Identity-formation is a *result* not a cause of this. > > So, am I wrong? Is identity formation a result or a cause of activity? > > Andy > > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > http://home.mira.net/~andy > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making > From ablunden@mira.net Wed Feb 15 02:49:44 2017 From: ablunden@mira.net (Andy Blunden) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 21:49:44 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: identity expressed or formed by action? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <646dbbab-65a8-b730-6a39-2f677bde6964@mira.net> That sounds good, Stephen, but I don't see any "drive to express identity" in there. I do think there is a drive to form and preserve social bonds, but this is not the *expression* of affiliative identity; perhaps the source of "affiliative identity," and the objective basis for an imposed identity (as opposed to a self-identity), but not something created by a desire or drive to express a pre-existing identity. Yes? Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden http://home.mira.net/~andy http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making On 15/02/2017 9:36 PM, Stephen Walsh wrote: > Hi Andy, > I think that the answer is both. I think we need to think > of identities as heterogeneous rather than homogeneous. > Looking at identity (dis)continuity following brain injury > is instructive. Research we have conducted with brain > injury survivors taking part in post acute community > neurorehabilitiation shows that identities deriving from > the groups we belong to (affiliative identities; e.g. > familiy) generate social support which facilitates the > formation of 'self as doer' identities (e.g. painter, > walker etc etc). > Best Regards, > Stephen > > On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 7:30 AM, Andy Blunden > > wrote: > > I would be interested in any helpful comments (other > than suggestions for more books to read) from my xmca > psychologist friends on this problem. > > In discussion with a friend, who is very au fait with > contemporary social philosophy, but knows nothing of > CHAT, suggested to me a number of ideas intended to be > explanatory (rather than descriptive) of current > social and political trends. He talks about the rise > of "expressive authenticity" since the 1970s and > "collective action as a means to express selfhood." In > response, I questioned whether there is any such thing > as a drive to *express* one's identity, and that > rather, collective action (and there is fundamentally > no other kind of action) in pursuit of needs of all > kinds (spiritual, social and material) is *formative* > of identity. > > A classic case for analysis is the well-known > observation that nowadays people purchase (clothes, > cars, food, ...) as a means of expressing their > identity. I question this, because it presumes that > there is the innate drive to express one's identity, > which I see no evidence for. I think people adopt > dress styles in much the same way that people carry > flags - to promote a movement they think positive and > to gain social acceptance in it. Identity-formation is > a *result* not a cause of this. > > So, am I wrong? Is identity formation a result or a > cause of activity? > > Andy > > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > http://home.mira.net/~andy > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making > > > > From stephenwals@gmail.com Wed Feb 15 02:57:01 2017 From: stephenwals@gmail.com (Stephen Walsh) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 10:57:01 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: identity expressed or formed by action? In-Reply-To: <646dbbab-65a8-b730-6a39-2f677bde6964@mira.net> References: <646dbbab-65a8-b730-6a39-2f677bde6964@mira.net> Message-ID: I may have to get a coffee and put my thinking cap on a little tighter :) Is the impulse (or drive) that was evidenced in the minimal group experiments to favour our ingroup the same impulse that drives us to give and accept social support? I think it may be. On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 10:49 AM, Andy Blunden wrote: > That sounds good, Stephen, but I don't see any "drive to express identity" > in there. I do think there is a drive to form and preserve social bonds, > but this is not the *expression* of affiliative identity; perhaps the > source of "affiliative identity," and the objective basis for an imposed > identity (as opposed to a self-identity), but not something created by a > desire or drive to express a pre-existing identity. > > Yes? > > Andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > http://home.mira.net/~andy > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making > On 15/02/2017 9:36 PM, Stephen Walsh wrote: > >> Hi Andy, >> I think that the answer is both. I think we need to think of identities >> as heterogeneous rather than homogeneous. Looking at identity >> (dis)continuity following brain injury is instructive. Research we have >> conducted with brain injury survivors taking part in post acute community >> neurorehabilitiation shows that identities deriving from the groups we >> belong to (affiliative identities; e.g. familiy) generate social support >> which facilitates the formation of 'self as doer' identities (e.g. painter, >> walker etc etc). >> Best Regards, >> Stephen >> >> On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 7:30 AM, Andy Blunden > ablunden@mira.net>> wrote: >> >> I would be interested in any helpful comments (other >> than suggestions for more books to read) from my xmca >> psychologist friends on this problem. >> >> In discussion with a friend, who is very au fait with >> contemporary social philosophy, but knows nothing of >> CHAT, suggested to me a number of ideas intended to be >> explanatory (rather than descriptive) of current >> social and political trends. He talks about the rise >> of "expressive authenticity" since the 1970s and >> "collective action as a means to express selfhood." In >> response, I questioned whether there is any such thing >> as a drive to *express* one's identity, and that >> rather, collective action (and there is fundamentally >> no other kind of action) in pursuit of needs of all >> kinds (spiritual, social and material) is *formative* >> of identity. >> >> A classic case for analysis is the well-known >> observation that nowadays people purchase (clothes, >> cars, food, ...) as a means of expressing their >> identity. I question this, because it presumes that >> there is the innate drive to express one's identity, >> which I see no evidence for. I think people adopt >> dress styles in much the same way that people carry >> flags - to promote a movement they think positive and >> to gain social acceptance in it. Identity-formation is >> a *result* not a cause of this. >> >> So, am I wrong? Is identity formation a result or a >> cause of activity? >> >> Andy >> >> >> -- ------------------------------------------------------------ >> Andy Blunden >> http://home.mira.net/~andy >> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making >> > decision-making> >> >> >> >> > From stephenwals@gmail.com Wed Feb 15 02:58:19 2017 From: stephenwals@gmail.com (Stephen Walsh) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 10:58:19 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: identity expressed or formed by action? In-Reply-To: References: <646dbbab-65a8-b730-6a39-2f677bde6964@mira.net> Message-ID: ANDY: That sounds good, Stephen, but I don't see any "drive to express identity" in there. I do think there is a drive to form and preserve social bonds, but this is not the *expression* of affiliative identity; perhaps the source of "affiliative identity," and the objective basis for an imposed identity (as opposed to a self-identity), but not something created by a desire or drive to express a pre-existing identity. Yes? STEPHEN: I may have to get a coffee and put my thinking cap on a little tighter :) Is the impulse (or drive) that was evidenced in the minimal group experiments to favour our ingroup the same impulse that drives us to give and accept social support? I think it may be. On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 10:57 AM, Stephen Walsh wrote: > I may have to get a coffee and put my thinking cap on a little tighter :) > Is the impulse (or drive) that was evidenced in the minimal group > experiments to favour our ingroup the same impulse that drives us to give > and accept social support? I think it may be. > > On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 10:49 AM, Andy Blunden wrote: > >> That sounds good, Stephen, but I don't see any "drive to express >> identity" in there. I do think there is a drive to form and preserve social >> bonds, but this is not the *expression* of affiliative identity; perhaps >> the source of "affiliative identity," and the objective basis for an >> imposed identity (as opposed to a self-identity), but not something created >> by a desire or drive to express a pre-existing identity. >> >> Yes? >> >> Andy >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> Andy Blunden >> http://home.mira.net/~andy >> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making >> On 15/02/2017 9:36 PM, Stephen Walsh wrote: >> >>> Hi Andy, >>> I think that the answer is both. I think we need to think of identities >>> as heterogeneous rather than homogeneous. Looking at identity >>> (dis)continuity following brain injury is instructive. Research we have >>> conducted with brain injury survivors taking part in post acute community >>> neurorehabilitiation shows that identities deriving from the groups we >>> belong to (affiliative identities; e.g. familiy) generate social support >>> which facilitates the formation of 'self as doer' identities (e.g. painter, >>> walker etc etc). >>> Best Regards, >>> Stephen >>> >>> On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 7:30 AM, Andy Blunden >> > wrote: >>> >>> I would be interested in any helpful comments (other >>> than suggestions for more books to read) from my xmca >>> psychologist friends on this problem. >>> >>> In discussion with a friend, who is very au fait with >>> contemporary social philosophy, but knows nothing of >>> CHAT, suggested to me a number of ideas intended to be >>> explanatory (rather than descriptive) of current >>> social and political trends. He talks about the rise >>> of "expressive authenticity" since the 1970s and >>> "collective action as a means to express selfhood." In >>> response, I questioned whether there is any such thing >>> as a drive to *express* one's identity, and that >>> rather, collective action (and there is fundamentally >>> no other kind of action) in pursuit of needs of all >>> kinds (spiritual, social and material) is *formative* >>> of identity. >>> >>> A classic case for analysis is the well-known >>> observation that nowadays people purchase (clothes, >>> cars, food, ...) as a means of expressing their >>> identity. I question this, because it presumes that >>> there is the innate drive to express one's identity, >>> which I see no evidence for. I think people adopt >>> dress styles in much the same way that people carry >>> flags - to promote a movement they think positive and >>> to gain social acceptance in it. Identity-formation is >>> a *result* not a cause of this. >>> >>> So, am I wrong? Is identity formation a result or a >>> cause of activity? >>> >>> Andy >>> >>> >>> -- ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Andy Blunden >>> http://home.mira.net/~andy >>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decisi >>> on-making >>> >> ion-making> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> > From babson@gse.upenn.edu Wed Feb 15 03:13:46 2017 From: babson@gse.upenn.edu (Andrew Babson) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 06:13:46 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: actions within academia In-Reply-To: <9432F663-5CCE-4D35-9FAB-2235D83A5044@gmail.com> References: <003601d2776d$2cc0a910$8641fb30$@att.net> <003a01d27774$a0aeaf00$e20c0d00$@att.net> <588a1d8b.c280630a.7710d.bdd6@mx.google.com> <002401d277f4$d8da5ac0$8a8f1040$@att.net> <588a317a.1121620a.8e1ba.d866@mx.google.com> <71E849D1-5353-4DDA-BA83-F1DF29820355@gmail.com> <88AB2869-5898-4F23-BB2E-6CCD490C96F7@umn.edu> <1486190026596.25381@iped.uio.no> <563DC5C2-5A29-4F62-9444-8D6B1D275857@umn.edu> <034D32A2-D0A6-455E-8580-FAFE881A108A@gmail.com> <9432F663-5CCE-4D35-9FAB-2235D83A5044@gmail.com> Message-ID: I cannot recommend Helena's email highly enough. The casualization of the academic workforce is not some kind of natural disaster. It's been engineered as a neoliberal two-fer: academia becomes a "business", and faculty become divided and weak. Joining a faculty union is the best first response to this. The radicalized GOP has tenure and faculty power in their crosshairs. Without institutional power, we can't teach well or do our best research. Faculty who choose to ignore any of this are part of the problem. On Sat, Feb 4, 2017 at 8:10 PM, Helena Worthen wrote: > Actions within academia? Following the advice of thinking globally, acting > locally, don?t forget the third kind of action within academia: paying > attention to the faculty workforce itself, which is has been deteriorating > into a gig economy for the last 30 plus years. If there is organizing going > on among adjuncts on your campus, seek it out and support it; if there is a > campus coalition of university-wide unions (which will mean secretaries, > techies, landscapers, food workers, transportation and custodial workers as > well as faculty of all levels), attend meetings and be supportive; in > faculty meetings, insist on adjuncts/lecturers be treated equally. If a new > kind of program gets floated (for example, an online degree) ask, ?Who is > doing this work? What are their working conditions?? > > It?s amazing what a strong workforce-wide coalition can do to slow down > the construction of luxury rec facilities and the closure of language or > ethnic studies programs. > > Third kind meaning in addition to doing research or designing curriculum > that has progressive content or protecting structures of opportunity that > reduce inequality. > > H > > Helena Worthen > helenaworthen@gmail.com > Berkeley, CA 94707 > Blog about US and Viet Nam: helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > > > > On Feb 4, 2017, at 4:35 PM, HENRY SHONERD wrote: > > > > Richard, > > Many thanks for this. What great resources! Medaiting artefacts. They > come at a good time for my wife and me as far as what needs to be done in > the larger social domain. Distributed agency at different scales. Within > each circle we need trust and respect of one another. That really resonates > all through. I like the metaphor of electro-magnetic field. It was in the > title of my letter honoring Vera in the book Bob Lake and Cathrene Connery > edited. (Shout out to Bob and Cathrene!) Part of Vera?s magic circle we > are. So the circles are across generations. (Shout out to Vera!) Such cool > people on the chat. But warm blooded. (Shout out to Andy!) > > Henry > > > >> On Feb 4, 2017, at 2:46 PM, Richard Beach wrote: > >> > >> Mike, regarding your call for action on campuses, my concern is that > people may accept a passive stance as individuals assuming that they lack > agency to make change as opposed to achieving distributed agency (Enfield, > 2013) through exposure to examples of collective activism so that they > achieve agency through co-action with others. Students and researchers > could examine examples of current organized efforts from a CHAT perspective > in terms of use of certain tools and norms to achieve certain > objects/outcomes, for example: > >> > >> - Our Revolution national organization website < > https://ourrevolution.com/> > >> > >> - Indivisible: A Practical Guide for Resisting the Trump Agenda < > https://www.indivisibleguide.com/web/>: Former congressional staffers > reveal best practices for making Congress listen > >> > >> - Courage Campaign : A California-based > organization of 1.3 million members promoting progressive agendas > >> > >> - Swing Left : Targets swing districts to > promote candidates for the 2018 election. > >> Consistent with a CHAT perspective, to avoid students framing the > political space in individualist terms?as Trump does in his attacks on > critics, it?s also useful for students and researchers to examine issues in > terms of competing systems associated with institutional forces and change. > For example, in addressing climate change, students and researchers can > examine the intersections between ecological, economic, agriculture, legal, > political, urban design/housing, transportation, schooling, health care, > military, media, and scientific research as systems related to climate > change. For example, the agribusiness agricultural system of monocrop/beef > production is a major contributor to CO2 emissions related to climate > change. Students can also examine examples of legal and political efforts > as systems associated with addressing climate change issues < > http://climatechangeela.pbworks.com/w/page/103010995/ > Chapter%209%20%C2%A0Links>, for example, a group of students in Orego > n federal-lawsuit/index.html> who have a lawsuit in federal courts suing > the U. S. Government for failing to address climate change. > >> > >> > >> Richard Beach, Professor Emeritus of English Education, University of > Minnesota > >> rbeach@umn.edu > >> Websites: Digital writing , Media > literacy , Teaching literature > , Identity-focused ELA Teaching < > http://identities.pbworks.com/>, Common Core State Standards < > http://englishccss.pbworks.com/>, Apps for literacy learning < > http://usingipads.pbworks.com/>, Teaching about climate change < > http://climatechangeela.pbworks.com/> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>> On Feb 4, 2017, at 11:55 AM, mike cole wrote: > >>> > >>> Richard and Alfredo > >>> > >>> I keep coming back to the question of how we, as academics, located in > the > >>> system of higher education, researchers on the social creation of > social > >>> inequality, ought to be re-orienting our research in light of the > >>> re-surrection of global nationalist/populism. > >>> > >>> So for me, its important to focus on concrete exemplars that might > unloose > >>> this potential: "shock events' possibility not only for separating but > for > >>> actually offering opportunities to re-organize and unite priorly > separated > >>> forces." > >>> > >>> In a recent discussion at LCHC, this topic came up in terms of how to > >>> connect our research and our undergraduates to the life of the > communities > >>> whose children do not make it to the university. Such an effort > requires > >>> coordination of a variety of dis-articulated groups with a common > concern > >>> about socially and culturally marginalized, econonomically stressed, > >>> communities. > >>> > >>> The challenge of engaging successfully in such work and satisfying the > >>> academic production requirements of their academic personnel committees > >>> seems a major challenge. > >>> > >>> Positive suggestions of how to meet this challenge would be warmly > accepted. > >>> > >>> mike > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 10:33 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Thanks for sharing Richard, I had seen Richardson's analysis online. > In > >>>> fact the amount of analyses in the media that this crisis is > generating is > >>>> overwhelming, but also very encouraging and gives hopes towards > >>>> Richardson's notes on shock events' possibility not only for > separating but > >>>> for actually offering opportunities to re-organize and unite priorly > >>>> separated forces. I wonder, if Lincoln managed without the web and the > >>>> i-phone, will it happen today? > >>>> > >>>> Alfredo > >>>> ________________________________________ > >>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu edu> > >>>> on behalf of Richard Beach > >>>> Sent: 03 February 2017 00:28 > >>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Bannon's actions as "shock event" > >>>> > >>>> Here?s an interesting analysis of Bannon?s actions on banning > immigrants > >>>> that?s related to Bakhtin?s notion of ?eventness? and Roth?s (2014) > >>>> analysis of ?events-in-the-making? associated with the experience of > >>>> unfolding events with unpredictable consequences. We still don?t know > what > >>>> the fallout will be from attempts to implement this ban. > >>>> > >>>>> From Heather Richardson, professor of History at Boston College: > >>>> > >>>> "I don't like to talk about politics on Facebook-- political history > is my > >>>> job, after all, and you are my friends-- but there is an important > >>>> non-partisan point to make today. > >>>> > >>>> What Bannon is doing, most dramatically with last night's ban on > >>>> immigration from seven predominantly Muslim countries-- is creating > what is > >>>> known as a "shock event." > >>>> > >>>> Such an event is unexpected and confusing and throws a society into > chaos. > >>>> People scramble to react to the event, usually along some fault line > that > >>>> those responsible for the event can widen by claiming that they alone > know > >>>> how to restore order. > >>>> > >>>> When opponents speak out, the authors of the shock event call them > >>>> enemies. As society reels and tempers run high, those responsible for > the > >>>> shock event perform a sleight of hand to achieve their real goal, a > goal > >>>> they know to be hugely unpopular, but from which everyone has been > >>>> distracted as they fight over the initial event. There is no longer > >>>> concerted opposition to the real goal; opposition divides along the > >>>> partisan lines established by the shock event. > >>>> > >>>> Last night's Executive Order has all the hallmarks of a shock event. > It > >>>> was not reviewed by any governmental agencies or lawyers before it was > >>>> released, and counterterrorism experts insist they did not ask for it. > >>>> People charged with enforcing it got no instructions about how to do > so. > >>>> Courts immediately have declared parts of it unconstitutional, but > border > >>>> police in some airports are refusing to stop enforcing it. > >>>> > >>>> Predictably, chaos has followed and tempers are hot. > >>>> > >>>> My point today is this: unless you are the person setting it up, it > is in > >>>> no one's interest to play the shock event game. It is designed > explicitly > >>>> to divide people who might otherwise come together so they cannot > stand > >>>> against something its authors think they won't like. > >>>> > >>>> I don't know what Bannon is up to-- although I have some guesses-- but > >>>> because I know Bannon's ideas well, I am positive that there is not a > >>>> single person whom I consider a friend on either side of the aisle-- > and my > >>>> friends range pretty widely-- who will benefit from whatever it is. > >>>> > >>>> If the shock event strategy works, though, many of you will blame each > >>>> other, rather than Bannon, for the fallout. And the country will have > been > >>>> tricked into accepting their real goal. > >>>> > >>>> But because shock events destabilize a society, they can also be used > >>>> positively. We do not have to respond along old fault lines. We could > just > >>>> as easily reorganize into a different pattern that threatens the > people who > >>>> sparked the event. > >>>> > >>>> A successful shock event depends on speed and chaos because it > requires > >>>> knee-jerk reactions so that people divide along established lines. > This, > >>>> for example, is how Confederate leaders railroaded the initial > southern > >>>> states out of the Union. > >>>> > >>>> If people realize they are being played, though, they can reach > across old > >>>> lines and reorganize to challenge the leaders who are pulling the > strings. > >>>> This was Lincoln's strategy when he joined together Whigs, Democrats, > >>>> Free-Soilers, anti-Nebraska voters, and nativists into the new > Republican > >>>> Party to stand against the Slave Power. > >>>> > >>>> Five years before, such a coalition would have been unimaginable. > Members > >>>> of those groups agreed on very little other than that they wanted all > >>>> Americans to have equal economic opportunity. Once they began to work > >>>> together to promote a fair economic system, though, they found much > common > >>>> ground. They ended up rededicating the nation to a "government of the > >>>> people, by the people, and for the people." > >>>> > >>>> Confederate leaders and Lincoln both knew about the political > potential of > >>>> a shock event. As we are in the midst of one, it seems worth noting > that > >>>> Lincoln seemed to have the better idea about how to use it." > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Richard Beach, Professor Emeritus of English Education, University of > >>>> Minnesota > >>>> rbeach@umn.edu > >>>> Websites: Digital writing , Media > >>>> literacy , Teaching > literature > >>>> , Identity-focused ELA > Teaching < > >>>> http://identities.pbworks.com/>, Common Core State Standards < > >>>> http://englishccss.pbworks.com/>, Apps for literacy learning < > >>>> http://usingipads.pbworks.com/>, Teaching about climate change < > >>>> http://climatechangeela.pbworks.com/> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> On Jan 26, 2017, at 10:16 AM, Helena Worthen < > helenaworthen@gmail.com> > >>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> On the subject of dividing, here is an ugly snapshot of the wedge > >>>> getting driven in ? the building trades unions finding common ground > with > >>>> Trump as a ?developer.? The other deeply regressive unions are the > prison > >>>> guards and police. > >>>>> > >>>>> http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2017/01/building-trades-allow- > >>>> themselves-to-be-played-like-fools > >>>>> > >>>>> I attend monthly discussion groups in the Bay Area organized around > >>>> readings from the magazine Jacobin. I like these because the other > >>>> participants are mostly 20s and early 30s, techies or grad students. > Very > >>>> smart, very alert, very well-read and articulate. They are stamped, > >>>> however, with evidence of never having studied history. (Philosophy, > yes ? > >>>> which is interesting.) To many of them, the building trades and police > >>>> unions are typical of the political position of labor unions. > >>>>> > >>>>> So they see LIUNA leaders meeting with Trump and smear the whole > labor > >>>> movement with it. > >>>>> > >>>>> H > >>>>> > >>>>> Helena Worthen > >>>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com > >>>>> Berkeley, CA 94707 > >>>>> Blog about US and Viet Nam: helenaworthen.wordpress.com > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> On Jan 26, 2017, at 9:26 AM, < > >>>> lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Yes, > >>>>>> Today, the strategy of dividing, leaving us in disarray, is how i > >>>> experience the deluge of draconian executive ?orders? that leaves me > >>>> spinning. > >>>>>> Leaves me questioning where to start. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Exposing the disarray on the other side in concrete ways (Koch vs > >>>> Mercer) is a valuable addition to our ways of responding. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Sent from my Windows 10 phone > >>>>>> > >>>>>> From: Peg Griffin > >>>>>> Sent: January 26, 2017 8:57 AM > >>>>>> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' > >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg > referred to > >>>>>> > >>>>>> At this point, Larry, I'm content to rise to as much concrete as I > can > >>>> get near, until at least the late spring, to get at ideas and > >>>> contradictions, to keep moving and supporting so I'm in enough places > to > >>>> and bits of the movement to find the productive places for me. > >>>>>> A mini-mission of mine right now is to get people to recognize the > >>>> divide among the big money folks in the US -- the Mercer father > daughter > >>>> beat the Koch brothers within the Republican moneyed. > >>>>>> The other side works hard to divide us and take advantage of the > >>>> disarray, so why not pay attention when they are dividing themselves! > >>>>>> No use being a day late and a dollar short about who's who! > >>>>>> Maybe it's just that my great uncle was in vaudeville and showed us > >>>> three yammering nieces a super card game called "52 pick-up." It's > not too > >>>> good too often for too long but everyone once in a while it's not a > bad > >>>> game. > >>>>>> PG > >>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > >>>> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of lpscholar2@gmail.com > >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 11:02 AM > >>>>>> To: Peg Griffin; 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' > >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg > referred to > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Peg, Mike, > >>>>>> Reading these two articles on BigData and remembering how funding > will > >>>> be given to academic research that slots into being verified (or > negated) > >>>> through BigData is profoundly disturbing and leaves me with a sense of > >>>> inertia at the scope of the alienation involved in this manipulation. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Using Simmel?s back and forth notion of the relation of (distance > and > >>>> intimacy) and finding the proper ratio depending on the events > occuring > >>>> then the proper relation between distance and intimacy will be > shifting in > >>>> scope in each historical era. > >>>>>> Will our response to the vast distance incarnated through BIgData > >>>> require intimate responses as counterpoint?? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> If this is LIKE the 1930?s, do we have any answers from the past > that > >>>> give glimmers of a way forward that can be responsive at scale to the > >>>> distancing of BigData? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Sent from my Windows 10 phone > >>>>>> > >>>>>> From: Peg Griffin > >>>>>> Sent: January 25, 2017 5:39 PM > >>>>>> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' > >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg > referred to > >>>>>> > >>>>>> And here's a Guardian story https://www.theguardian.com/ > >>>> us-news/2016/nov/23/donald-trump-cambridge-analytica-steve-bannon for > >>>> those interested in the post-election ties among the Mercers (father > and > >>>> daughter), Bannon, Conway, and Cambridge Analytica. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > >>>> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Peg Griffin > >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2017 7:43 PM > >>>>>> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' > >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg > referred to > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Hee hee hee, Mike Cole, you rogue! This is the official Cambridge > >>>> Analytica site https://cambridgeanalytica.org/ But Mike direct you > to a > >>>> meatier sit about it! > >>>>>> Peg > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > >>>> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole > >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2017 1:41 PM > >>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred to > >>>>>> > >>>>>> https://antidotezine.com/2017/01/22/trump-knows-you/ > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >> > > > > > > > From ablunden@mira.net Wed Feb 15 03:17:37 2017 From: ablunden@mira.net (Andy Blunden) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 22:17:37 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: identity expressed or formed by action? In-Reply-To: References: <646dbbab-65a8-b730-6a39-2f677bde6964@mira.net> Message-ID: <56ec9d9a-7fe6-f0ef-0310-090de1913292@mira.net> Yes, I think so. I don't deny the reality of identity, or that self-identity is a powerful determinate of activity. The point is whether and at what depth identity is explanatory. If I say "I am a socialist" I would find an explanation of this to be quite fatuous that went along the lines of me having a need to express my identity and finding that using the words and symbols of socialism and attending socialist events fulfilled that need. Likewise, to explain my affection for my partner and the effort I put it to look after her in terms of my need to maintain my identity as a member of this family or as a carer, equally facile. I think the causal connections run in the other direction. Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden http://home.mira.net/~andy http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 10:57 AM, Stephen Walsh > wrote: > > I may have to get a coffee and put my thinking cap on > a little tighter :) > Is the impulse (or drive) that was evidenced in the > minimal group experiments to favour our ingroup the > same impulse that drives us to give and accept social > support? I think it may be. > > On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 10:49 AM, Andy Blunden > > wrote: > > That sounds good, Stephen, but I don't see any > "drive to express identity" in there. I do think > there is a drive to form and preserve social > bonds, but this is not the *expression* of > affiliative identity; perhaps the source of > "affiliative identity," and the objective basis > for an imposed identity (as opposed to a > self-identity), but not something created by a > desire or drive to express a pre-existing identity. > > Yes? > > Andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > http://home.mira.net/~andy > > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making > > > On 15/02/2017 9:36 PM, Stephen Walsh wrote: > > Hi Andy, > I think that the answer is both. I think we > need to think of identities as heterogeneous > rather than homogeneous. Looking at identity > (dis)continuity following brain injury is > instructive. Research we have conducted with > brain injury survivors taking part in post > acute community neurorehabilitiation shows > that identities deriving from the groups we > belong to (affiliative identities; e.g. > familiy) generate social support which > facilitates the formation of 'self as doer' > identities (e.g. painter, walker etc etc). > Best Regards, > Stephen > > On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 7:30 AM, Andy Blunden > > >> wrote: > > I would be interested in any helpful > comments (other > than suggestions for more books to read) > from my xmca > psychologist friends on this problem. > > In discussion with a friend, who is very > au fait with > contemporary social philosophy, but knows > nothing of > CHAT, suggested to me a number of ideas > intended to be > explanatory (rather than descriptive) of > current > social and political trends. He talks > about the rise > of "expressive authenticity" since the > 1970s and > "collective action as a means to express > selfhood." In > response, I questioned whether there is > any such thing > as a drive to *express* one's identity, > and that > rather, collective action (and there is > fundamentally > no other kind of action) in pursuit of > needs of all > kinds (spiritual, social and material) is > *formative* > of identity. > > A classic case for analysis is the well-known > observation that nowadays people purchase > (clothes, > cars, food, ...) as a means of expressing > their > identity. I question this, because it > presumes that > there is the innate drive to express one's > identity, > which I see no evidence for. I think > people adopt > dress styles in much the same way that > people carry > flags - to promote a movement they think > positive and > to gain social acceptance in it. > Identity-formation is > a *result* not a cause of this. > > So, am I wrong? Is identity formation a > result or a > cause of activity? > > Andy > > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > http://home.mira.net/~andy > > > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making > > > > > > > > > > From laure.kloetzer@gmail.com Wed Feb 15 03:17:03 2017 From: laure.kloetzer@gmail.com (Laure Kloetzer) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 12:17:03 +0100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: identity expressed or formed by action? In-Reply-To: References: <646dbbab-65a8-b730-6a39-2f677bde6964@mira.net> Message-ID: Well, collective action may not always be at the same place in subjective activity... >From my works on online communities, I can see (unsurprisingly) how engaging into collective action contributes to building selfhood. But also, of course, echoes the representations that each participant has on his own identity, interests, and life projects. In Stephen's case, the situation of the patients is a struggle for life, isn't it (at least for social and personal meaningful life, not only biological survival) ? A life or death challenge. Any resource in that case would be used to re-build (but still, not express) selfhood. Social affiliations are of course an extremely important resource here. The question is: in which ways does expression per se contributes to reconstruction? Best LK 2017-02-15 11:57 GMT+01:00 Stephen Walsh : > I may have to get a coffee and put my thinking cap on a little tighter :) > Is the impulse (or drive) that was evidenced in the minimal group > experiments to favour our ingroup the same impulse that drives us to give > and accept social support? I think it may be. > > On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 10:49 AM, Andy Blunden wrote: > > > That sounds good, Stephen, but I don't see any "drive to express > identity" > > in there. I do think there is a drive to form and preserve social bonds, > > but this is not the *expression* of affiliative identity; perhaps the > > source of "affiliative identity," and the objective basis for an imposed > > identity (as opposed to a self-identity), but not something created by a > > desire or drive to express a pre-existing identity. > > > > Yes? > > > > Andy > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Andy Blunden > > http://home.mira.net/~andy > > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making > > On 15/02/2017 9:36 PM, Stephen Walsh wrote: > > > >> Hi Andy, > >> I think that the answer is both. I think we need to think of identities > >> as heterogeneous rather than homogeneous. Looking at identity > >> (dis)continuity following brain injury is instructive. Research we have > >> conducted with brain injury survivors taking part in post acute > community > >> neurorehabilitiation shows that identities deriving from the groups we > >> belong to (affiliative identities; e.g. familiy) generate social support > >> which facilitates the formation of 'self as doer' identities (e.g. > painter, > >> walker etc etc). > >> Best Regards, > >> Stephen > >> > >> On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 7:30 AM, Andy Blunden >> ablunden@mira.net>> wrote: > >> > >> I would be interested in any helpful comments (other > >> than suggestions for more books to read) from my xmca > >> psychologist friends on this problem. > >> > >> In discussion with a friend, who is very au fait with > >> contemporary social philosophy, but knows nothing of > >> CHAT, suggested to me a number of ideas intended to be > >> explanatory (rather than descriptive) of current > >> social and political trends. He talks about the rise > >> of "expressive authenticity" since the 1970s and > >> "collective action as a means to express selfhood." In > >> response, I questioned whether there is any such thing > >> as a drive to *express* one's identity, and that > >> rather, collective action (and there is fundamentally > >> no other kind of action) in pursuit of needs of all > >> kinds (spiritual, social and material) is *formative* > >> of identity. > >> > >> A classic case for analysis is the well-known > >> observation that nowadays people purchase (clothes, > >> cars, food, ...) as a means of expressing their > >> identity. I question this, because it presumes that > >> there is the innate drive to express one's identity, > >> which I see no evidence for. I think people adopt > >> dress styles in much the same way that people carry > >> flags - to promote a movement they think positive and > >> to gain social acceptance in it. Identity-formation is > >> a *result* not a cause of this. > >> > >> So, am I wrong? Is identity formation a result or a > >> cause of activity? > >> > >> Andy > >> > >> > >> -- ------------------------------------------------------------ > >> Andy Blunden > >> http://home.mira.net/~andy > >> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective- > decision-making > >> >> decision-making> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > From r.j.s.parsons@open.ac.uk Wed Feb 15 03:25:22 2017 From: r.j.s.parsons@open.ac.uk (R.J.S.Parsons) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 11:25:22 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: identity expressed or formed by action? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The idea of waste leads me to Mary Douglas's Purity and Danger. (One of the books that made me grow up.) She discusses what dirt is - matter out of place. Then she discusses all sorts of implications. She doesnt' discuss the issue of expression vs formation as such, but much of what she does discuss bears on it. Menstruation comes to mind. In some societies, women having their periods are perceived as dirty, and they are seen as untouchable by men. So the way a woman is treated forms in her the idea that she is a pollutant, or a carrier. She was not one to start with. Rob On 15/02/2017 10:21, Laure Kloetzer wrote: > Dear Andy, > > Interestingly, I had a very similar discussion with some colleagues > recently not on identity but on... waste. The perspective of one of our > students was that investigating what waste is can be done via interviews, > in order to understand how we decide what to through away. I was arguing > that waste is not fully defined before action, but that waste is what we > through away. The action of throwing away is formative of what count as > "waste". > I thought it might help to step back for one second from the tricky > question of self-identity and considering more concrete, everyday > activities before coming back to it... > Best > LK > > > 2017-02-15 8:30 GMT+01:00 Andy Blunden : > >> I would be interested in any helpful comments (other than suggestions for >> more books to read) from my xmca psychologist friends on this problem. >> >> In discussion with a friend, who is very au fait with contemporary social >> philosophy, but knows nothing of CHAT, suggested to me a number of ideas >> intended to be explanatory (rather than descriptive) of current social and >> political trends. He talks about the rise of "expressive authenticity" >> since the 1970s and "collective action as a means to express selfhood." In >> response, I questioned whether there is any such thing as a drive to >> *express* one's identity, and that rather, collective action (and there is >> fundamentally no other kind of action) in pursuit of needs of all kinds >> (spiritual, social and material) is *formative* of identity. >> >> A classic case for analysis is the well-known observation that nowadays >> people purchase (clothes, cars, food, ...) as a means of expressing their >> identity. I question this, because it presumes that there is the innate >> drive to express one's identity, which I see no evidence for. I think >> people adopt dress styles in much the same way that people carry flags - to >> promote a movement they think positive and to gain social acceptance in it. >> Identity-formation is a *result* not a cause of this. >> >> So, am I wrong? Is identity formation a result or a cause of activity? >> >> Andy >> >> >> -- >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> Andy Blunden >> http://home.mira.net/~andy >> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making >> From wendy.maples@outlook.com Wed Feb 15 04:19:15 2017 From: wendy.maples@outlook.com (Wendy Maples) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 12:19:15 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: actions within academia In-Reply-To: References: <003601d2776d$2cc0a910$8641fb30$@att.net> <003a01d27774$a0aeaf00$e20c0d00$@att.net> <588a1d8b.c280630a.7710d.bdd6@mx.google.com> <002401d277f4$d8da5ac0$8a8f1040$@att.net> <588a317a.1121620a.8e1ba.d866@mx.google.com> <71E849D1-5353-4DDA-BA83-F1DF29820355@gmail.com> <88AB2869-5898-4F23-BB2E-6CCD490C96F7@umn.edu> <1486190026596.25381@iped.uio.no> <563DC5C2-5A29-4F62-9444-8D6B1D275857@umn.edu> <034D32A2-D0A6-455E-8580-FAFE881A108A@gmail.com> <9432F663-5CCE-4D35-9FAB-2235D83A5044@gmail.com>, Message-ID: Yes, thank you Helena. This is quite right. The university where I am currently working has recently successfully implemented zero hours contracts for part-time tutors, with hardly a murmur from full-time staff, who have themselves been divided into 'research' and 'teaching-only' faculty (needless to say most of the boards agreeing these decisions are made up of the professoriat). While the rationale for this is completely understandable and (in this particular case) not necessarily deleterious, there is a wider issue of the culture that enables this. The implementation of capitalist-managerial caste-based systems appears to be accelerating. I'm not saying the old academic tenure system was without its flaws (I'm a female academic after all), but the acceleration of these new systems and the lack of resistance to them is worrying. BTW, just heard a key note by Martin Weller ('the open researcher') who is himself now a bit more concerned about some of the risks of being open, and was arguing that individual academics need to know they have the support of their institutions. I worry that, increasingly, they/we don't/won't. Wendy ________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Andrew Babson Sent: 15 February 2017 11:13 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: actions within academia I cannot recommend Helena's email highly enough. The casualization of the academic workforce is not some kind of natural disaster. It's been engineered as a neoliberal two-fer: academia becomes a "business", and faculty become divided and weak. Joining a faculty union is the best first response to this. The radicalized GOP has tenure and faculty power in their crosshairs. Without institutional power, we can't teach well or do our best research. Faculty who choose to ignore any of this are part of the problem. On Sat, Feb 4, 2017 at 8:10 PM, Helena Worthen wrote: > Actions within academia? Following the advice of thinking globally, acting > locally, don?t forget the third kind of action within academia: paying > attention to the faculty workforce itself, which is has been deteriorating > into a gig economy for the last 30 plus years. If there is organizing going > on among adjuncts on your campus, seek it out and support it; if there is a > campus coalition of university-wide unions (which will mean secretaries, > techies, landscapers, food workers, transportation and custodial workers as > well as faculty of all levels), attend meetings and be supportive; in > faculty meetings, insist on adjuncts/lecturers be treated equally. If a new > kind of program gets floated (for example, an online degree) ask, ?Who is > doing this work? What are their working conditions?? > > It?s amazing what a strong workforce-wide coalition can do to slow down > the construction of luxury rec facilities and the closure of language or > ethnic studies programs. > > Third kind meaning in addition to doing research or designing curriculum > that has progressive content or protecting structures of opportunity that > reduce inequality. > > H > > Helena Worthen > helenaworthen@gmail.com > Berkeley, CA 94707 > Blog about US and Viet Nam: helenaworthen.wordpress.com > > > > > On Feb 4, 2017, at 4:35 PM, HENRY SHONERD wrote: > > > > Richard, > > Many thanks for this. What great resources! Medaiting artefacts. They > come at a good time for my wife and me as far as what needs to be done in > the larger social domain. Distributed agency at different scales. Within > each circle we need trust and respect of one another. That really resonates > all through. I like the metaphor of electro-magnetic field. It was in the > title of my letter honoring Vera in the book Bob Lake and Cathrene Connery > edited. (Shout out to Bob and Cathrene!) Part of Vera?s magic circle we > are. So the circles are across generations. (Shout out to Vera!) Such cool > people on the chat. But warm blooded. (Shout out to Andy!) > > Henry > > > >> On Feb 4, 2017, at 2:46 PM, Richard Beach wrote: > >> > >> Mike, regarding your call for action on campuses, my concern is that > people may accept a passive stance as individuals assuming that they lack > agency to make change as opposed to achieving distributed agency (Enfield, > 2013) through exposure to examples of collective activism so that they > achieve agency through co-action with others. Students and researchers > could examine examples of current organized efforts from a CHAT perspective > in terms of use of certain tools and norms to achieve certain > objects/outcomes, for example: > >> > >> - Our Revolution national organization website < > https://ourrevolution.com/> Our Revolution - Our Revolution ourrevolution.com The next step for Bernie Sanders' movement is a new group called Our Revolution, which will fight to transform America and advance the progressive agenda that we ... > >> > >> - Indivisible: A Practical Guide for Resisting the Trump Agenda < > https://www.indivisibleguide.com/web/>: Former congressional staffers > reveal best practices for making Congress listen > >> > >> - Courage Campaign : A California-based Courage Campaign couragecampaign.org Join the fights for a more progressive California and country. We are an online community of activists powered by more than 1,000,000 members. > organization of 1.3 million members promoting progressive agendas > >> > >> - Swing Left : Targets swing districts to [https://swingleft.org/dist/imgs/logo.png] Swing Left | Take Back the House swingleft.org Control of the House in 2018 will be decided in a handful of Swing Districts. We can stop the Trump agenda by joining together NOW, wherever we live. > promote candidates for the 2018 election. > >> Consistent with a CHAT perspective, to avoid students framing the > political space in individualist terms?as Trump does in his attacks on > critics, it?s also useful for students and researchers to examine issues in > terms of competing systems associated with institutional forces and change. > For example, in addressing climate change, students and researchers can > examine the intersections between ecological, economic, agriculture, legal, > political, urban design/housing, transportation, schooling, health care, > military, media, and scientific research as systems related to climate > change. For example, the agribusiness agricultural system of monocrop/beef > production is a major contributor to CO2 emissions related to climate > change. Students can also examine examples of legal and political efforts > as systems associated with addressing climate change issues < > http://climatechangeela.pbworks.com/w/page/103010995/ > Chapter%209%20%C2%A0Links>, for example, a group of students in Orego > n federal-lawsuit/index.html> who have a lawsuit in federal courts suing > the U. S. Government for failing to address climate change. > >> > >> > >> Richard Beach, Professor Emeritus of English Education, University of > Minnesota > >> rbeach@umn.edu > >> Websites: Digital writing , Media > literacy , Teaching literature > , Identity-focused ELA Teaching < > http://identities.pbworks.com/>, Common Core State Standards < > http://englishccss.pbworks.com/>, Apps for literacy learning < > http://usingipads.pbworks.com/>, Teaching about climate change < > http://climatechangeela.pbworks.com/> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>> On Feb 4, 2017, at 11:55 AM, mike cole wrote: > >>> > >>> Richard and Alfredo > >>> > >>> I keep coming back to the question of how we, as academics, located in > the > >>> system of higher education, researchers on the social creation of > social > >>> inequality, ought to be re-orienting our research in light of the > >>> re-surrection of global nationalist/populism. > >>> > >>> So for me, its important to focus on concrete exemplars that might > unloose > >>> this potential: "shock events' possibility not only for separating but > for > >>> actually offering opportunities to re-organize and unite priorly > separated > >>> forces." > >>> > >>> In a recent discussion at LCHC, this topic came up in terms of how to > >>> connect our research and our undergraduates to the life of the > communities > >>> whose children do not make it to the university. Such an effort > requires > >>> coordination of a variety of dis-articulated groups with a common > concern > >>> about socially and culturally marginalized, econonomically stressed, > >>> communities. > >>> > >>> The challenge of engaging successfully in such work and satisfying the > >>> academic production requirements of their academic personnel committees > >>> seems a major challenge. > >>> > >>> Positive suggestions of how to meet this challenge would be warmly > accepted. > >>> > >>> mike > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 10:33 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Thanks for sharing Richard, I had seen Richardson's analysis online. > In > >>>> fact the amount of analyses in the media that this crisis is > generating is > >>>> overwhelming, but also very encouraging and gives hopes towards > >>>> Richardson's notes on shock events' possibility not only for > separating but > >>>> for actually offering opportunities to re-organize and unite priorly > >>>> separated forces. I wonder, if Lincoln managed without the web and the > >>>> i-phone, will it happen today? > >>>> > >>>> Alfredo > >>>> ________________________________________ > >>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu edu> > >>>> on behalf of Richard Beach > >>>> Sent: 03 February 2017 00:28 > >>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Bannon's actions as "shock event" > >>>> > >>>> Here?s an interesting analysis of Bannon?s actions on banning > immigrants > >>>> that?s related to Bakhtin?s notion of ?eventness? and Roth?s (2014) > >>>> analysis of ?events-in-the-making? associated with the experience of > >>>> unfolding events with unpredictable consequences. We still don?t know > what > >>>> the fallout will be from attempts to implement this ban. > >>>> > >>>>> From Heather Richardson, professor of History at Boston College: > >>>> > >>>> "I don't like to talk about politics on Facebook-- political history > is my > >>>> job, after all, and you are my friends-- but there is an important > >>>> non-partisan point to make today. > >>>> > >>>> What Bannon is doing, most dramatically with last night's ban on > >>>> immigration from seven predominantly Muslim countries-- is creating > what is > >>>> known as a "shock event." > >>>> > >>>> Such an event is unexpected and confusing and throws a society into > chaos. > >>>> People scramble to react to the event, usually along some fault line > that > >>>> those responsible for the event can widen by claiming that they alone > know > >>>> how to restore order. > >>>> > >>>> When opponents speak out, the authors of the shock event call them > >>>> enemies. As society reels and tempers run high, those responsible for > the > >>>> shock event perform a sleight of hand to achieve their real goal, a > goal > >>>> they know to be hugely unpopular, but from which everyone has been > >>>> distracted as they fight over the initial event. There is no longer > >>>> concerted opposition to the real goal; opposition divides along the > >>>> partisan lines established by the shock event. > >>>> > >>>> Last night's Executive Order has all the hallmarks of a shock event. > It > >>>> was not reviewed by any governmental agencies or lawyers before it was > >>>> released, and counterterrorism experts insist they did not ask for it. > >>>> People charged with enforcing it got no instructions about how to do > so. > >>>> Courts immediately have declared parts of it unconstitutional, but > border > >>>> police in some airports are refusing to stop enforcing it. > >>>> > >>>> Predictably, chaos has followed and tempers are hot. > >>>> > >>>> My point today is this: unless you are the person setting it up, it > is in > >>>> no one's interest to play the shock event game. It is designed > explicitly > >>>> to divide people who might otherwise come together so they cannot > stand > >>>> against something its authors think they won't like. > >>>> > >>>> I don't know what Bannon is up to-- although I have some guesses-- but > >>>> because I know Bannon's ideas well, I am positive that there is not a > >>>> single person whom I consider a friend on either side of the aisle-- > and my > >>>> friends range pretty widely-- who will benefit from whatever it is. > >>>> > >>>> If the shock event strategy works, though, many of you will blame each > >>>> other, rather than Bannon, for the fallout. And the country will have > been > >>>> tricked into accepting their real goal. > >>>> > >>>> But because shock events destabilize a society, they can also be used > >>>> positively. We do not have to respond along old fault lines. We could > just > >>>> as easily reorganize into a different pattern that threatens the > people who > >>>> sparked the event. > >>>> > >>>> A successful shock event depends on speed and chaos because it > requires > >>>> knee-jerk reactions so that people divide along established lines. > This, > >>>> for example, is how Confederate leaders railroaded the initial > southern > >>>> states out of the Union. > >>>> > >>>> If people realize they are being played, though, they can reach > across old > >>>> lines and reorganize to challenge the leaders who are pulling the > strings. > >>>> This was Lincoln's strategy when he joined together Whigs, Democrats, > >>>> Free-Soilers, anti-Nebraska voters, and nativists into the new > Republican > >>>> Party to stand against the Slave Power. > >>>> > >>>> Five years before, such a coalition would have been unimaginable. > Members > >>>> of those groups agreed on very little other than that they wanted all > >>>> Americans to have equal economic opportunity. Once they began to work > >>>> together to promote a fair economic system, though, they found much > common > >>>> ground. They ended up rededicating the nation to a "government of the > >>>> people, by the people, and for the people." > >>>> > >>>> Confederate leaders and Lincoln both knew about the political > potential of > >>>> a shock event. As we are in the midst of one, it seems worth noting > that > >>>> Lincoln seemed to have the better idea about how to use it." > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Richard Beach, Professor Emeritus of English Education, University of > >>>> Minnesota > >>>> rbeach@umn.edu > >>>> Websites: Digital writing , Media > >>>> literacy , Teaching > literature > >>>> , Identity-focused ELA > Teaching < > >>>> http://identities.pbworks.com/>, Common Core State Standards < > >>>> http://englishccss.pbworks.com/>, Apps for literacy learning < > >>>> http://usingipads.pbworks.com/>, Teaching about climate change < > >>>> http://climatechangeela.pbworks.com/> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> On Jan 26, 2017, at 10:16 AM, Helena Worthen < > helenaworthen@gmail.com> > >>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> On the subject of dividing, here is an ugly snapshot of the wedge > >>>> getting driven in ? the building trades unions finding common ground > with > >>>> Trump as a ?developer.? The other deeply regressive unions are the > prison > >>>> guards and police. > >>>>> > >>>>> http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2017/01/building-trades-allow- > >>>> themselves-to-be-played-like-fools > >>>>> > >>>>> I attend monthly discussion groups in the Bay Area organized around > >>>> readings from the magazine Jacobin. I like these because the other > >>>> participants are mostly 20s and early 30s, techies or grad students. > Very > >>>> smart, very alert, very well-read and articulate. They are stamped, > >>>> however, with evidence of never having studied history. (Philosophy, > yes ? > >>>> which is interesting.) To many of them, the building trades and police > >>>> unions are typical of the political position of labor unions. > >>>>> > >>>>> So they see LIUNA leaders meeting with Trump and smear the whole > labor > >>>> movement with it. > >>>>> > >>>>> H > >>>>> > >>>>> Helena Worthen > >>>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com > >>>>> Berkeley, CA 94707 > >>>>> Blog about US and Viet Nam: helenaworthen.wordpress.com > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> On Jan 26, 2017, at 9:26 AM, < > >>>> lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Yes, > >>>>>> Today, the strategy of dividing, leaving us in disarray, is how i > >>>> experience the deluge of draconian executive ?orders? that leaves me > >>>> spinning. > >>>>>> Leaves me questioning where to start. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Exposing the disarray on the other side in concrete ways (Koch vs > >>>> Mercer) is a valuable addition to our ways of responding. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Sent from my Windows 10 phone > >>>>>> > >>>>>> From: Peg Griffin > >>>>>> Sent: January 26, 2017 8:57 AM > >>>>>> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' > >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg > referred to > >>>>>> > >>>>>> At this point, Larry, I'm content to rise to as much concrete as I > can > >>>> get near, until at least the late spring, to get at ideas and > >>>> contradictions, to keep moving and supporting so I'm in enough places > to > >>>> and bits of the movement to find the productive places for me. > >>>>>> A mini-mission of mine right now is to get people to recognize the > >>>> divide among the big money folks in the US -- the Mercer father > daughter > >>>> beat the Koch brothers within the Republican moneyed. > >>>>>> The other side works hard to divide us and take advantage of the > >>>> disarray, so why not pay attention when they are dividing themselves! > >>>>>> No use being a day late and a dollar short about who's who! > >>>>>> Maybe it's just that my great uncle was in vaudeville and showed us > >>>> three yammering nieces a super card game called "52 pick-up." It's > not too > >>>> good too often for too long but everyone once in a while it's not a > bad > >>>> game. > >>>>>> PG > >>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > >>>> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of lpscholar2@gmail.com > >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 11:02 AM > >>>>>> To: Peg Griffin; 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' > >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg > referred to > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Peg, Mike, > >>>>>> Reading these two articles on BigData and remembering how funding > will > >>>> be given to academic research that slots into being verified (or > negated) > >>>> through BigData is profoundly disturbing and leaves me with a sense of > >>>> inertia at the scope of the alienation involved in this manipulation. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Using Simmel?s back and forth notion of the relation of (distance > and > >>>> intimacy) and finding the proper ratio depending on the events > occuring > >>>> then the proper relation between distance and intimacy will be > shifting in > >>>> scope in each historical era. > >>>>>> Will our response to the vast distance incarnated through BIgData > >>>> require intimate responses as counterpoint?? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> If this is LIKE the 1930?s, do we have any answers from the past > that > >>>> give glimmers of a way forward that can be responsive at scale to the > >>>> distancing of BigData? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Sent from my Windows 10 phone > >>>>>> > >>>>>> From: Peg Griffin > >>>>>> Sent: January 25, 2017 5:39 PM > >>>>>> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' > >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg > referred to > >>>>>> > >>>>>> And here's a Guardian story https://www.theguardian.com/ > >>>> us-news/2016/nov/23/donald-trump-cambridge-analytica-steve-bannon for > >>>> those interested in the post-election ties among the Mercers (father > and > >>>> daughter), Bannon, Conway, and Cambridge Analytica. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > >>>> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Peg Griffin > >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2017 7:43 PM > >>>>>> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' > >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg > referred to > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Hee hee hee, Mike Cole, you rogue! This is the official Cambridge > >>>> Analytica site https://cambridgeanalytica.org/ But Mike direct you > to a > >>>> meatier sit about it! > >>>>>> Peg > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > >>>> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole > >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2017 1:41 PM > >>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred to > >>>>>> > >>>>>> https://antidotezine.com/2017/01/22/trump-knows-you/ > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >> > > > > > > > From lpscholar2@gmail.com Wed Feb 15 06:05:45 2017 From: lpscholar2@gmail.com (lpscholar2@gmail.com) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 06:05:45 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: identity expressed or formed by action? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <58a46070.54c0620a.26eec.3bea@mx.google.com> Andy, Can there be such a phenomena such as the collective action TO express ?identity? that weakens the perceived ?sense? of collective action. Focusing on the long dur?e and the collective action tending toward the formation of a felt need and desire FOR expressive ?identity?. Charles Taylor?s book suggesting that expressive identity is a tendency of a particular social imaginary situated within specific cultural-historical forms of sociality Sent from my Windows 10 phone From: Laure Kloetzer Sent: February 15, 2017 2:24 AM To: Andy Blunden; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: identity expressed or formed by action? Dear Andy, Interestingly, I had a very similar discussion with some colleagues recently not on identity but on... waste. The perspective of one of our students was that investigating what waste is can be done via interviews, in order to understand how we decide what to through away. I was arguing that waste is not fully defined before action, but that waste is what we through away. The action of throwing away is formative of what count as "waste". I thought it might help to step back for one second from the tricky question of self-identity and considering more concrete, everyday activities before coming back to it... Best LK 2017-02-15 8:30 GMT+01:00 Andy Blunden : > I would be interested in any helpful comments (other than suggestions for > more books to read) from my xmca psychologist friends on this problem. > > In discussion with a friend, who is very au fait with contemporary social > philosophy, but knows nothing of CHAT, suggested to me a number of ideas > intended to be explanatory (rather than descriptive) of current social and > political trends. He talks about the rise of "expressive authenticity" > since the 1970s and "collective action as a means to express selfhood." In > response, I questioned whether there is any such thing as a drive to > *express* one's identity, and that rather, collective action (and there is > fundamentally no other kind of action) in pursuit of needs of all kinds > (spiritual, social and material) is *formative* of identity. > > A classic case for analysis is the well-known observation that nowadays > people purchase (clothes, cars, food, ...) as a means of expressing their > identity. I question this, because it presumes that there is the innate > drive to express one's identity, which I see no evidence for. I think > people adopt dress styles in much the same way that people carry flags - to > promote a movement they think positive and to gain social acceptance in it. > Identity-formation is a *result* not a cause of this. > > So, am I wrong? Is identity formation a result or a cause of activity? > > Andy > > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > http://home.mira.net/~andy > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making > From lpscholar2@gmail.com Wed Feb 15 06:17:14 2017 From: lpscholar2@gmail.com (lpscholar2@gmail.com) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 06:17:14 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: identity expressed or formed by action? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <58a46320.d1cc620a.dd298.43fe@mx.google.com> Rob, So, in the way ?she becomes a pollutant as waste? can a person become ?an expressive identity? as a formation of a particular cultural imaginary? Not a ?pollutant? or ?an expressive identity? to start with, but becoming a pollutant or an expressive identity. Sent from my Windows 10 phone From: R.J.S.Parsons Sent: February 15, 2017 3:26 AM To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: identity expressed or formed by action? The idea of waste leads me to Mary Douglas's Purity and Danger. (One of the books that made me grow up.) She discusses what dirt is - matter out of place. Then she discusses all sorts of implications. She doesnt' discuss the issue of expression vs formation as such, but much of what she does discuss bears on it. Menstruation comes to mind. In some societies, women having their periods are perceived as dirty, and they are seen as untouchable by men. So the way a woman is treated forms in her the idea that she is a pollutant, or a carrier. She was not one to start with. Rob On 15/02/2017 10:21, Laure Kloetzer wrote: > Dear Andy, > > Interestingly, I had a very similar discussion with some colleagues > recently not on identity but on... waste. The perspective of one of our > students was that investigating what waste is can be done via interviews, > in order to understand how we decide what to through away. I was arguing > that waste is not fully defined before action, but that waste is what we > through away. The action of throwing away is formative of what count as > "waste". > I thought it might help to step back for one second from the tricky > question of self-identity and considering more concrete, everyday > activities before coming back to it... > Best > LK > > > 2017-02-15 8:30 GMT+01:00 Andy Blunden : > >> I would be interested in any helpful comments (other than suggestions for >> more books to read) from my xmca psychologist friends on this problem. >> >> In discussion with a friend, who is very au fait with contemporary social >> philosophy, but knows nothing of CHAT, suggested to me a number of ideas >> intended to be explanatory (rather than descriptive) of current social and >> political trends. He talks about the rise of "expressive authenticity" >> since the 1970s and "collective action as a means to express selfhood." In >> response, I questioned whether there is any such thing as a drive to >> *express* one's identity, and that rather, collective action (and there is >> fundamentally no other kind of action) in pursuit of needs of all kinds >> (spiritual, social and material) is *formative* of identity. >> >> A classic case for analysis is the well-known observation that nowadays >> people purchase (clothes, cars, food, ...) as a means of expressing their >> identity. I question this, because it presumes that there is the innate >> drive to express one's identity, which I see no evidence for. I think >> people adopt dress styles in much the same way that people carry flags - to >> promote a movement they think positive and to gain social acceptance in it. >> Identity-formation is a *result* not a cause of this. >> >> So, am I wrong? Is identity formation a result or a cause of activity? >> >> Andy >> >> >> -- >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> Andy Blunden >> http://home.mira.net/~andy >> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making >> From wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com Wed Feb 15 06:46:40 2017 From: wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com (Wolff-Michael Roth) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 06:46:40 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: identity expressed or formed by action? In-Reply-To: <58a46320.d1cc620a.dd298.43fe@mx.google.com> References: <58a46320.d1cc620a.dd298.43fe@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Andy, I have worked out some of the issues in an article available online Roth, W.-M. (2009). Identity and community: Differences at heart and futures-to-come. ?ducation et Didactique, 3, 99-118. ( http://educationdidactique.revues.org/582) where "I present a way to realize the Hegel?Marx?Vygotsky?Leont?ev program of understanding the subject of activity and, correlatively, of understanding the (the culture of the) community with which individuals stand in an irreducible, because mutually constitutive relationship" Michael -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wolff-Michael Roth, Lansdowne Professor Applied Cognitive Science MacLaurin Building A567 University of Victoria Victoria, BC, V8P 5C2 http://web.uvic.ca/~mroth New book: *The Mathematics of Mathematics * On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 6:17 AM, wrote: > Rob, > So, in the way ?she becomes a pollutant as waste? can a person become ?an > expressive identity? as a formation of a particular cultural imaginary? > > Not a ?pollutant? or ?an expressive identity? to start with, but becoming > a pollutant or an expressive identity. > > Sent from my Windows 10 phone > > From: R.J.S.Parsons > Sent: February 15, 2017 3:26 AM > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: identity expressed or formed by action? > > The idea of waste leads me to Mary Douglas's Purity and Danger. (One of > the books that made me grow up.) She discusses what dirt is - matter out > of place. Then she discusses all sorts of implications. She doesnt' > discuss the issue of expression vs formation as such, but much of what > she does discuss bears on it. Menstruation comes to mind. In some > societies, women having their periods are perceived as dirty, and they > are seen as untouchable by men. So the way a woman is treated forms in > her the idea that she is a pollutant, or a carrier. She was not one to > start with. > > Rob > > On 15/02/2017 10:21, Laure Kloetzer wrote: > > Dear Andy, > > > > Interestingly, I had a very similar discussion with some colleagues > > recently not on identity but on... waste. The perspective of one of our > > students was that investigating what waste is can be done via interviews, > > in order to understand how we decide what to through away. I was arguing > > that waste is not fully defined before action, but that waste is what we > > through away. The action of throwing away is formative of what count as > > "waste". > > I thought it might help to step back for one second from the tricky > > question of self-identity and considering more concrete, everyday > > activities before coming back to it... > > Best > > LK > > > > > > 2017-02-15 8:30 GMT+01:00 Andy Blunden : > > > >> I would be interested in any helpful comments (other than suggestions > for > >> more books to read) from my xmca psychologist friends on this problem. > >> > >> In discussion with a friend, who is very au fait with contemporary > social > >> philosophy, but knows nothing of CHAT, suggested to me a number of ideas > >> intended to be explanatory (rather than descriptive) of current social > and > >> political trends. He talks about the rise of "expressive authenticity" > >> since the 1970s and "collective action as a means to express selfhood." > In > >> response, I questioned whether there is any such thing as a drive to > >> *express* one's identity, and that rather, collective action (and there > is > >> fundamentally no other kind of action) in pursuit of needs of all kinds > >> (spiritual, social and material) is *formative* of identity. > >> > >> A classic case for analysis is the well-known observation that nowadays > >> people purchase (clothes, cars, food, ...) as a means of expressing > their > >> identity. I question this, because it presumes that there is the innate > >> drive to express one's identity, which I see no evidence for. I think > >> people adopt dress styles in much the same way that people carry flags > - to > >> promote a movement they think positive and to gain social acceptance in > it. > >> Identity-formation is a *result* not a cause of this. > >> > >> So, am I wrong? Is identity formation a result or a cause of activity? > >> > >> Andy > >> > >> > >> -- > >> ------------------------------------------------------------ > >> Andy Blunden > >> http://home.mira.net/~andy > >> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making > >> > > > From ablunden@mira.net Wed Feb 15 06:52:07 2017 From: ablunden@mira.net (Andy Blunden) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 01:52:07 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: identity expressed or formed by action? In-Reply-To: References: <58a46320.d1cc620a.dd298.43fe@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5a373395-5d9b-180e-d1d4-177f832dcaa4@mira.net> Thank you for the reference, Michael, but can't you tell me in a sentence or two whether there is any such thing as a drive to express one's self-identity in activity which is prior to the activity in which identity is formed? Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden http://home.mira.net/~andy http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making On 16/02/2017 1:46 AM, Wolff-Michael Roth wrote: > Andy, > I have worked out some of the issues in an article available online > Roth, W.-M. (2009). Identity and community: Differences at heart and > futures-to-come. ?ducation et Didactique, 3, 99-118. ( > http://educationdidactique.revues.org/582) > > where "I present a way to realize the Hegel?Marx?Vygotsky?Leont?ev program > of understanding the subject of activity and, correlatively, of > understanding the (the culture of the) community with which individuals > stand in an irreducible, because mutually constitutive relationship" > > Michael > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Wolff-Michael Roth, Lansdowne Professor > Applied Cognitive Science > MacLaurin Building A567 > University of Victoria > Victoria, BC, V8P 5C2 > http://web.uvic.ca/~mroth > > New book: *The Mathematics of Mathematics > * > > On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 6:17 AM, wrote: > >> Rob, >> So, in the way ?she becomes a pollutant as waste? can a person become ?an >> expressive identity? as a formation of a particular cultural imaginary? >> >> Not a ?pollutant? or ?an expressive identity? to start with, but becoming >> a pollutant or an expressive identity. >> >> Sent from my Windows 10 phone >> >> From: R.J.S.Parsons >> Sent: February 15, 2017 3:26 AM >> To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: identity expressed or formed by action? >> >> The idea of waste leads me to Mary Douglas's Purity and Danger. (One of >> the books that made me grow up.) She discusses what dirt is - matter out >> of place. Then she discusses all sorts of implications. She doesnt' >> discuss the issue of expression vs formation as such, but much of what >> she does discuss bears on it. Menstruation comes to mind. In some >> societies, women having their periods are perceived as dirty, and they >> are seen as untouchable by men. So the way a woman is treated forms in >> her the idea that she is a pollutant, or a carrier. She was not one to >> start with. >> >> Rob >> >> On 15/02/2017 10:21, Laure Kloetzer wrote: >>> Dear Andy, >>> >>> Interestingly, I had a very similar discussion with some colleagues >>> recently not on identity but on... waste. The perspective of one of our >>> students was that investigating what waste is can be done via interviews, >>> in order to understand how we decide what to through away. I was arguing >>> that waste is not fully defined before action, but that waste is what we >>> through away. The action of throwing away is formative of what count as >>> "waste". >>> I thought it might help to step back for one second from the tricky >>> question of self-identity and considering more concrete, everyday >>> activities before coming back to it... >>> Best >>> LK >>> >>> >>> 2017-02-15 8:30 GMT+01:00 Andy Blunden : >>> >>>> I would be interested in any helpful comments (other than suggestions >> for >>>> more books to read) from my xmca psychologist friends on this problem. >>>> >>>> In discussion with a friend, who is very au fait with contemporary >> social >>>> philosophy, but knows nothing of CHAT, suggested to me a number of ideas >>>> intended to be explanatory (rather than descriptive) of current social >> and >>>> political trends. He talks about the rise of "expressive authenticity" >>>> since the 1970s and "collective action as a means to express selfhood." >> In >>>> response, I questioned whether there is any such thing as a drive to >>>> *express* one's identity, and that rather, collective action (and there >> is >>>> fundamentally no other kind of action) in pursuit of needs of all kinds >>>> (spiritual, social and material) is *formative* of identity. >>>> >>>> A classic case for analysis is the well-known observation that nowadays >>>> people purchase (clothes, cars, food, ...) as a means of expressing >> their >>>> identity. I question this, because it presumes that there is the innate >>>> drive to express one's identity, which I see no evidence for. I think >>>> people adopt dress styles in much the same way that people carry flags >> - to >>>> promote a movement they think positive and to gain social acceptance in >> it. >>>> Identity-formation is a *result* not a cause of this. >>>> >>>> So, am I wrong? Is identity formation a result or a cause of activity? >>>> >>>> Andy >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> Andy Blunden >>>> http://home.mira.net/~andy >>>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making >>>> >> >> > From mpacker@uniandes.edu.co Wed Feb 15 06:59:25 2017 From: mpacker@uniandes.edu.co (Martin John Packer) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 14:59:25 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: identity expressed or formed by action? In-Reply-To: <5a373395-5d9b-180e-d1d4-177f832dcaa4@mira.net> References: <58a46320.d1cc620a.dd298.43fe@mx.google.com> <5a373395-5d9b-180e-d1d4-177f832dcaa4@mira.net> Message-ID: <59DAEF93-D970-4764-A767-5D9EBC6346B8@uniandes.edu.co> Andy, If ?innate? means present at birth, I think the majority of developmental scientists would say that there are no indications that an infant has either an identity, or a drive to express one. The classic texts on the psychology of identity (not that you have to read them!) were those written by Erik Erikson, for whom identity is constructed, and the construction occurs - or at least begins - in adolescence. Martin > On Feb 15, 2017, at 9:52 AM, Andy Blunden wrote: > > Thank you for the reference, Michael, but can't you tell me in a sentence or two whether there is any such thing as a drive to express one's self-identity in activity which is prior to the activity in which identity is formed? > > Andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > http://home.mira.net/~andy > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making > On 16/02/2017 1:46 AM, Wolff-Michael Roth wrote: >> Andy, >> I have worked out some of the issues in an article available online >> Roth, W.-M. (2009). Identity and community: Differences at heart and >> futures-to-come. ?ducation et Didactique, 3, 99-118. ( >> http://educationdidactique.revues.org/582) >> >> where "I present a way to realize the Hegel?Marx?Vygotsky?Leont?ev program >> of understanding the subject of activity and, correlatively, of >> understanding the (the culture of the) community with which individuals >> stand in an irreducible, because mutually constitutive relationship" >> >> Michael >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Wolff-Michael Roth, Lansdowne Professor >> Applied Cognitive Science >> MacLaurin Building A567 >> University of Victoria >> Victoria, BC, V8P 5C2 >> http://web.uvic.ca/~mroth >> >> New book: *The Mathematics of Mathematics >> * >> >> On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 6:17 AM, wrote: >> >>> Rob, >>> So, in the way ?she becomes a pollutant as waste? can a person become ?an >>> expressive identity? as a formation of a particular cultural imaginary? >>> >>> Not a ?pollutant? or ?an expressive identity? to start with, but becoming >>> a pollutant or an expressive identity. >>> >>> Sent from my Windows 10 phone >>> >>> From: R.J.S.Parsons >>> Sent: February 15, 2017 3:26 AM >>> To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: identity expressed or formed by action? >>> >>> The idea of waste leads me to Mary Douglas's Purity and Danger. (One of >>> the books that made me grow up.) She discusses what dirt is - matter out >>> of place. Then she discusses all sorts of implications. She doesnt' >>> discuss the issue of expression vs formation as such, but much of what >>> she does discuss bears on it. Menstruation comes to mind. In some >>> societies, women having their periods are perceived as dirty, and they >>> are seen as untouchable by men. So the way a woman is treated forms in >>> her the idea that she is a pollutant, or a carrier. She was not one to >>> start with. >>> >>> Rob >>> >>> On 15/02/2017 10:21, Laure Kloetzer wrote: >>>> Dear Andy, >>>> >>>> Interestingly, I had a very similar discussion with some colleagues >>>> recently not on identity but on... waste. The perspective of one of our >>>> students was that investigating what waste is can be done via interviews, >>>> in order to understand how we decide what to through away. I was arguing >>>> that waste is not fully defined before action, but that waste is what we >>>> through away. The action of throwing away is formative of what count as >>>> "waste". >>>> I thought it might help to step back for one second from the tricky >>>> question of self-identity and considering more concrete, everyday >>>> activities before coming back to it... >>>> Best >>>> LK >>>> >>>> >>>> 2017-02-15 8:30 GMT+01:00 Andy Blunden : >>>> >>>>> I would be interested in any helpful comments (other than suggestions >>> for >>>>> more books to read) from my xmca psychologist friends on this problem. >>>>> >>>>> In discussion with a friend, who is very au fait with contemporary >>> social >>>>> philosophy, but knows nothing of CHAT, suggested to me a number of ideas >>>>> intended to be explanatory (rather than descriptive) of current social >>> and >>>>> political trends. He talks about the rise of "expressive authenticity" >>>>> since the 1970s and "collective action as a means to express selfhood." >>> In >>>>> response, I questioned whether there is any such thing as a drive to >>>>> *express* one's identity, and that rather, collective action (and there >>> is >>>>> fundamentally no other kind of action) in pursuit of needs of all kinds >>>>> (spiritual, social and material) is *formative* of identity. >>>>> >>>>> A classic case for analysis is the well-known observation that nowadays >>>>> people purchase (clothes, cars, food, ...) as a means of expressing >>> their >>>>> identity. I question this, because it presumes that there is the innate >>>>> drive to express one's identity, which I see no evidence for. I think >>>>> people adopt dress styles in much the same way that people carry flags >>> - to >>>>> promote a movement they think positive and to gain social acceptance in >>> it. >>>>> Identity-formation is a *result* not a cause of this. >>>>> >>>>> So, am I wrong? Is identity formation a result or a cause of activity? >>>>> >>>>> Andy >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> Andy Blunden >>>>> http://home.mira.net/~andy >>>>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making >>>>> >>> >>> >> > From glassman.13@osu.edu Wed Feb 15 07:13:30 2017 From: glassman.13@osu.edu (Glassman, Michael) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 15:13:30 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: identity expressed or formed by action? In-Reply-To: <59DAEF93-D970-4764-A767-5D9EBC6346B8@uniandes.edu.co> References: <58a46320.d1cc620a.dd298.43fe@mx.google.com> <5a373395-5d9b-180e-d1d4-177f832dcaa4@mira.net> <59DAEF93-D970-4764-A767-5D9EBC6346B8@uniandes.edu.co> Message-ID: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F90EBC6432@CIO-TNC-D1MBX11.osuad.osu.edu> Hi Martin, My reading of Erikson is that the drive for identity is epiphenomenal to our other more basic, instinctual drives (Freudian in nature). So we are not born with the drive for identity, but it is something that necessarily emerges in all of us. How we then deal with fulfilling this drive is highly contextual and social. Michael -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Martin John Packer Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 9:59 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: identity expressed or formed by action? Andy, If ?innate? means present at birth, I think the majority of developmental scientists would say that there are no indications that an infant has either an identity, or a drive to express one. The classic texts on the psychology of identity (not that you have to read them!) were those written by Erik Erikson, for whom identity is constructed, and the construction occurs - or at least begins - in adolescence. Martin > On Feb 15, 2017, at 9:52 AM, Andy Blunden wrote: > > Thank you for the reference, Michael, but can't you tell me in a sentence or two whether there is any such thing as a drive to express one's self-identity in activity which is prior to the activity in which identity is formed? > > Andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > http://home.mira.net/~andy > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making > On 16/02/2017 1:46 AM, Wolff-Michael Roth wrote: >> Andy, >> I have worked out some of the issues in an article available online >> Roth, W.-M. (2009). Identity and community: Differences at heart and >> futures-to-come. ?ducation et Didactique, 3, 99-118. ( >> http://educationdidactique.revues.org/582) >> >> where "I present a way to realize the Hegel?Marx?Vygotsky?Leont?ev >> program of understanding the subject of activity and, correlatively, >> of understanding the (the culture of the) community with which >> individuals stand in an irreducible, because mutually constitutive relationship" >> >> Michael >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ----------- Wolff-Michael Roth, Lansdowne Professor Applied Cognitive >> Science MacLaurin Building A567 University of Victoria Victoria, BC, >> V8P 5C2 http://web.uvic.ca/~mroth >> >> >> New book: *The Mathematics of Mathematics >> > n-mathematics-and-science-education/the-mathematics-of-mathematics/>* >> >> On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 6:17 AM, wrote: >> >>> Rob, >>> So, in the way ?she becomes a pollutant as waste? can a person >>> become ?an expressive identity? as a formation of a particular cultural imaginary? >>> >>> Not a ?pollutant? or ?an expressive identity? to start with, but >>> becoming a pollutant or an expressive identity. >>> >>> Sent from my Windows 10 phone >>> >>> From: R.J.S.Parsons >>> Sent: February 15, 2017 3:26 AM >>> To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: identity expressed or formed by action? >>> >>> The idea of waste leads me to Mary Douglas's Purity and Danger. (One >>> of the books that made me grow up.) She discusses what dirt is - >>> matter out of place. Then she discusses all sorts of implications. She doesnt' >>> discuss the issue of expression vs formation as such, but much of >>> what she does discuss bears on it. Menstruation comes to mind. In >>> some societies, women having their periods are perceived as dirty, >>> and they are seen as untouchable by men. So the way a woman is >>> treated forms in her the idea that she is a pollutant, or a carrier. >>> She was not one to start with. >>> >>> Rob >>> >>> On 15/02/2017 10:21, Laure Kloetzer wrote: >>>> Dear Andy, >>>> >>>> Interestingly, I had a very similar discussion with some colleagues >>>> recently not on identity but on... waste. The perspective of one of >>>> our students was that investigating what waste is can be done via >>>> interviews, in order to understand how we decide what to through >>>> away. I was arguing that waste is not fully defined before action, >>>> but that waste is what we through away. The action of throwing away >>>> is formative of what count as "waste". >>>> I thought it might help to step back for one second from the tricky >>>> question of self-identity and considering more concrete, everyday >>>> activities before coming back to it... >>>> Best >>>> LK >>>> >>>> >>>> 2017-02-15 8:30 GMT+01:00 Andy Blunden : >>>> >>>>> I would be interested in any helpful comments (other than >>>>> suggestions >>> for >>>>> more books to read) from my xmca psychologist friends on this problem. >>>>> >>>>> In discussion with a friend, who is very au fait with contemporary >>> social >>>>> philosophy, but knows nothing of CHAT, suggested to me a number of >>>>> ideas intended to be explanatory (rather than descriptive) of >>>>> current social >>> and >>>>> political trends. He talks about the rise of "expressive authenticity" >>>>> since the 1970s and "collective action as a means to express selfhood." >>> In >>>>> response, I questioned whether there is any such thing as a drive >>>>> to >>>>> *express* one's identity, and that rather, collective action (and >>>>> there >>> is >>>>> fundamentally no other kind of action) in pursuit of needs of all >>>>> kinds (spiritual, social and material) is *formative* of identity. >>>>> >>>>> A classic case for analysis is the well-known observation that >>>>> nowadays people purchase (clothes, cars, food, ...) as a means of >>>>> expressing >>> their >>>>> identity. I question this, because it presumes that there is the >>>>> innate drive to express one's identity, which I see no evidence >>>>> for. I think people adopt dress styles in much the same way that >>>>> people carry flags >>> - to >>>>> promote a movement they think positive and to gain social >>>>> acceptance in >>> it. >>>>> Identity-formation is a *result* not a cause of this. >>>>> >>>>> So, am I wrong? Is identity formation a result or a cause of activity? >>>>> >>>>> Andy >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> Andy Blunden >>>>> http://home.mira.net/~andy >>>>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-mak >>>>> ing >>>>> >>> >>> >> > From wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com Wed Feb 15 07:18:57 2017 From: wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com (Wolff-Michael Roth) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 07:18:57 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: identity expressed or formed by action? In-Reply-To: <5a373395-5d9b-180e-d1d4-177f832dcaa4@mira.net> References: <58a46320.d1cc620a.dd298.43fe@mx.google.com> <5a373395-5d9b-180e-d1d4-177f832dcaa4@mira.net> Message-ID: Andy, I don't think that there is a drive to identity. I think this view is typical of a constructivist mentalist approach. In my view, Marx was closer to the point, and therefore Vygotsky and Leont'ev who use the category of personality rather than identity. Marx/Engels say something pertinent in the German Ideology: |p. 5| This mode of production must not be considered simply as being the reproduction of the physical existence of the individuals. Rather it is a definite form of activity of these individuals, a definite form of expressing their life, a definite mode of life on their part. *As* individuals express their life, so they are. What they are, therefore, coincides with their production, both with what they produce and ? 32 ? *with how they produce*. *Hence what individuals are depends on the material conditions of their production*. (This is from vol. 5 of the International Publishers edition) Michael -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wolff-Michael Roth, Lansdowne Professor Applied Cognitive Science MacLaurin Building A567 University of Victoria Victoria, BC, V8P 5C2 http://web.uvic.ca/~mroth New book: *The Mathematics of Mathematics * On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 6:52 AM, Andy Blunden wrote: > Thank you for the reference, Michael, but can't you tell me in a sentence > or two whether there is any such thing as a drive to express one's > self-identity in activity which is prior to the activity in which identity > is formed? > > Andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > http://home.mira.net/~andy > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making > On 16/02/2017 1:46 AM, Wolff-Michael Roth wrote: > >> Andy, >> I have worked out some of the issues in an article available online >> Roth, W.-M. (2009). Identity and community: Differences at heart and >> futures-to-come. ?ducation et Didactique, 3, 99-118. ( >> http://educationdidactique.revues.org/582) >> >> where "I present a way to realize the Hegel?Marx?Vygotsky?Leont?ev program >> of understanding the subject of activity and, correlatively, of >> understanding the (the culture of the) community with which individuals >> stand in an irreducible, because mutually constitutive relationship" >> >> Michael >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> -------------------- >> Wolff-Michael Roth, Lansdowne Professor >> Applied Cognitive Science >> MacLaurin Building A567 >> University of Victoria >> Victoria, BC, V8P 5C2 >> http://web.uvic.ca/~mroth >> >> New book: *The Mathematics of Mathematics >> > ections-in-mathematics-and-science-education/the-mathematics >> -of-mathematics/>* >> >> On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 6:17 AM, wrote: >> >> Rob, >>> So, in the way ?she becomes a pollutant as waste? can a person become ?an >>> expressive identity? as a formation of a particular cultural imaginary? >>> >>> Not a ?pollutant? or ?an expressive identity? to start with, but becoming >>> a pollutant or an expressive identity. >>> >>> Sent from my Windows 10 phone >>> >>> From: R.J.S.Parsons >>> Sent: February 15, 2017 3:26 AM >>> To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: identity expressed or formed by action? >>> >>> The idea of waste leads me to Mary Douglas's Purity and Danger. (One of >>> the books that made me grow up.) She discusses what dirt is - matter out >>> of place. Then she discusses all sorts of implications. She doesnt' >>> discuss the issue of expression vs formation as such, but much of what >>> she does discuss bears on it. Menstruation comes to mind. In some >>> societies, women having their periods are perceived as dirty, and they >>> are seen as untouchable by men. So the way a woman is treated forms in >>> her the idea that she is a pollutant, or a carrier. She was not one to >>> start with. >>> >>> Rob >>> >>> On 15/02/2017 10:21, Laure Kloetzer wrote: >>> >>>> Dear Andy, >>>> >>>> Interestingly, I had a very similar discussion with some colleagues >>>> recently not on identity but on... waste. The perspective of one of our >>>> students was that investigating what waste is can be done via >>>> interviews, >>>> in order to understand how we decide what to through away. I was arguing >>>> that waste is not fully defined before action, but that waste is what we >>>> through away. The action of throwing away is formative of what count as >>>> "waste". >>>> I thought it might help to step back for one second from the tricky >>>> question of self-identity and considering more concrete, everyday >>>> activities before coming back to it... >>>> Best >>>> LK >>>> >>>> >>>> 2017-02-15 8:30 GMT+01:00 Andy Blunden : >>>> >>>> I would be interested in any helpful comments (other than suggestions >>>>> >>>> for >>> >>>> more books to read) from my xmca psychologist friends on this problem. >>>>> >>>>> In discussion with a friend, who is very au fait with contemporary >>>>> >>>> social >>> >>>> philosophy, but knows nothing of CHAT, suggested to me a number of ideas >>>>> intended to be explanatory (rather than descriptive) of current social >>>>> >>>> and >>> >>>> political trends. He talks about the rise of "expressive authenticity" >>>>> since the 1970s and "collective action as a means to express selfhood." >>>>> >>>> In >>> >>>> response, I questioned whether there is any such thing as a drive to >>>>> *express* one's identity, and that rather, collective action (and there >>>>> >>>> is >>> >>>> fundamentally no other kind of action) in pursuit of needs of all kinds >>>>> (spiritual, social and material) is *formative* of identity. >>>>> >>>>> A classic case for analysis is the well-known observation that nowadays >>>>> people purchase (clothes, cars, food, ...) as a means of expressing >>>>> >>>> their >>> >>>> identity. I question this, because it presumes that there is the innate >>>>> drive to express one's identity, which I see no evidence for. I think >>>>> people adopt dress styles in much the same way that people carry flags >>>>> >>>> - to >>> >>>> promote a movement they think positive and to gain social acceptance in >>>>> >>>> it. >>> >>>> Identity-formation is a *result* not a cause of this. >>>>> >>>>> So, am I wrong? Is identity formation a result or a cause of activity? >>>>> >>>>> Andy >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> Andy Blunden >>>>> http://home.mira.net/~andy >>>>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >> > From ablunden@mira.net Wed Feb 15 07:23:35 2017 From: ablunden@mira.net (Andy Blunden) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 02:23:35 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: identity expressed or formed by action? In-Reply-To: References: <58a46320.d1cc620a.dd298.43fe@mx.google.com> <5a373395-5d9b-180e-d1d4-177f832dcaa4@mira.net> Message-ID: <40efea4a-bf0d-aa60-22f8-6f3625131ed9@mira.net> Thank you Martin, Michael and Michael. It seems I was not on the wrong track. I will press the matter further. Thanks again all, Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden http://home.mira.net/~andy http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making On 16/02/2017 2:18 AM, Wolff-Michael Roth wrote: > Andy, I don't think that there is a drive to identity. I > think this view is typical of a constructivist mentalist > approach. In my view, Marx was closer to the point, and > therefore Vygotsky and Leont'ev who use the category of > personality rather than identity. Marx/Engels say > something pertinent in the German Ideology: > > |p. 5| This mode of production must not be considered > simply as being the reproduction of the physical existence > of the individuals. Rather it is a definite form of > activity of these individuals, a definite form of > expressing their life, a definite mode of life on their > part. *As* individuals express their life, so they are. > What they are, therefore, coincides with their production, > both with what they produce and > ? 32 ? > *with how they produce*. *Hence what individuals are > depends on the material conditions of their production*. > (This is from vol. 5 of the International Publishers edition) > > Michael > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Wolff-Michael Roth, Lansdowne Professor > Applied Cognitive Science > MacLaurin Building A567 > University of Victoria > Victoria, BC, V8P 5C2 > http://web.uvic.ca/~mroth > > > New book: */The Mathematics of Mathematics > /* > > On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 6:52 AM, Andy Blunden > > wrote: > > Thank you for the reference, Michael, but can't you > tell me in a sentence or two whether there is any such > thing as a drive to express one's self-identity in > activity which is prior to the activity in which > identity is formed? > > Andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > http://home.mira.net/~andy > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making > > > On 16/02/2017 1:46 AM, Wolff-Michael Roth wrote: > > Andy, > I have worked out some of the issues in an article > available online > Roth, W.-M. (2009). Identity and community: > Differences at heart and > futures-to-come. ?ducation et Didactique, 3, 99-118. ( > http://educationdidactique.revues.org/582 > ) > > where "I present a way to realize the > Hegel?Marx?Vygotsky?Leont?ev program > of understanding the subject of activity and, > correlatively, of > understanding the (the culture of the) community > with which individuals > stand in an irreducible, because mutually > constitutive relationship" > > Michael > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Wolff-Michael Roth, Lansdowne Professor > Applied Cognitive Science > MacLaurin Building A567 > University of Victoria > Victoria, BC, V8P 5C2 > http://web.uvic.ca/~mroth > > > > > New book: *The Mathematics of Mathematics > >* > > On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 6:17 AM, > > wrote: > > Rob, > So, in the way ?she becomes a pollutant as > waste? can a person become ?an > expressive identity? as a formation of a > particular cultural imaginary? > > Not a ?pollutant? or ?an expressive identity? > to start with, but becoming > a pollutant or an expressive identity. > > Sent from my Windows 10 phone > > From: R.J.S.Parsons > Sent: February 15, 2017 3:26 AM > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: identity expressed or > formed by action? > > The idea of waste leads me to Mary Douglas's > Purity and Danger. (One of > the books that made me grow up.) She discusses > what dirt is - matter out > of place. Then she discusses all sorts of > implications. She doesnt' > discuss the issue of expression vs formation > as such, but much of what > she does discuss bears on it. Menstruation > comes to mind. In some > societies, women having their periods are > perceived as dirty, and they > are seen as untouchable by men. So the way a > woman is treated forms in > her the idea that she is a pollutant, or a > carrier. She was not one to > start with. > > Rob > > On 15/02/2017 10:21, Laure Kloetzer wrote: > > Dear Andy, > > Interestingly, I had a very similar > discussion with some colleagues > recently not on identity but on... waste. > The perspective of one of our > students was that investigating what waste > is can be done via interviews, > in order to understand how we decide what > to through away. I was arguing > that waste is not fully defined before > action, but that waste is what we > through away. The action of throwing away > is formative of what count as > "waste". > I thought it might help to step back for > one second from the tricky > question of self-identity and considering > more concrete, everyday > activities before coming back to it... > Best > LK > > > 2017-02-15 8:30 GMT+01:00 Andy Blunden > >: > > I would be interested in any helpful > comments (other than suggestions > > for > > more books to read) from my xmca > psychologist friends on this problem. > > In discussion with a friend, who is > very au fait with contemporary > > social > > philosophy, but knows nothing of CHAT, > suggested to me a number of ideas > intended to be explanatory (rather > than descriptive) of current social > > and > > political trends. He talks about the > rise of "expressive authenticity" > since the 1970s and "collective action > as a means to express selfhood." > > In > > response, I questioned whether there > is any such thing as a drive to > *express* one's identity, and that > rather, collective action (and there > > is > > fundamentally no other kind of action) > in pursuit of needs of all kinds > (spiritual, social and material) is > *formative* of identity. > > A classic case for analysis is the > well-known observation that nowadays > people purchase (clothes, cars, food, > ...) as a means of expressing > > their > > identity. I question this, because it > presumes that there is the innate > drive to express one's identity, which > I see no evidence for. I think > people adopt dress styles in much the > same way that people carry flags > > - to > > promote a movement they think positive > and to gain social acceptance in > > it. > > Identity-formation is a *result* not a > cause of this. > > So, am I wrong? Is identity formation > a result or a cause of activity? > > Andy > > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > http://home.mira.net/~andy > > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making > > > > > > > From dkellogg60@gmail.com Wed Feb 15 07:39:13 2017 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 00:39:13 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: identity expressed or formed by action? In-Reply-To: References: <58a46320.d1cc620a.dd298.43fe@mx.google.com> <5a373395-5d9b-180e-d1d4-177f832dcaa4@mira.net> Message-ID: Mary Douglas was part of the same sociological working group as Basil Bernstein, Michael Halliday, and Ruqaiya Hasan in London in the late sixties. One important result of this working group was the recognition that relationships like the the action of throwing away to "waste", or the action of buying a Prius to being a Prius-owner or the action of organizing in a revolutionary party to being a socialist--and also, I should say, the action of forming a concept to using a word meaning--are not causally related at all, at least not in the sense that we canonically use the word "cause" (which is a rather metaphorical sense, derived from Newtonian mechanics, and billiard balls colliding). Instead, when something abstract is concretized, Halliday and Hasan say it is "realized". This doesn't mean that it was unreal before, nor that the ideal is made real, but it does mean that a potential is made actual. Realization is a two way relationship, because the movement from lexicogrammar (abstract) to phonology (more concrete) is realization, but the movement from lexicogrammar (abstract) to context (more concrete) is also realization. Realization takes place whenever meaning potential becomes actual meaning, where meaning is understood as a process of relating one real thing to another. I think that this, and not a search for causes, unravels Andy's knot. Andy has said he doesn't want to read anything on this subject, and besides the reading material on realization is highly technical and mainly interesting to systemic functional linguists. But in the process of saying or writing anything, e.g. a post on xmca or a remark on a painting to a partner, we can easily see that the thought doesn't "cause" the utterance in any important sense (it does not, for example, fully determine its grammar or its pronunciation or its orthography, all of which are subject to errors which leave meaning invariant). What it does is to "realize" or "actualize" a meaning potential which is to some degree constructed by context, to some degree given by the lexicogrammatical system, and to some degree construed by the joint communicative project of speakers and hearers. The same thing seems to apply to waste, driving a Prius, being a socialist, and painting a mango--or eating one, for that matter, since you could have had an apple instead. David Kellogg Macquarie University On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 12:18 AM, Wolff-Michael Roth < wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com> wrote: > Andy, I don't think that there is a drive to identity. I think this view is > typical of a constructivist mentalist approach. In my view, Marx was closer > to the point, and therefore Vygotsky and Leont'ev who use the category of > personality rather than identity. Marx/Engels say something pertinent in > the German Ideology: > > |p. 5| This mode of production must not be considered simply as being the > reproduction of the physical existence of the individuals. Rather it is a > definite form of activity of these individuals, a definite form of > expressing their life, a definite mode of life on their part. *As* > individuals express their life, so they are. What they are, therefore, > coincides with their production, both with what they produce and > ? 32 ? > *with how they produce*. *Hence what individuals are depends on the > material conditions of their production*. > (This is from vol. 5 of the International Publishers edition) > > Michael > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > -------------------- > Wolff-Michael Roth, Lansdowne Professor > Applied Cognitive Science > MacLaurin Building A567 > University of Victoria > Victoria, BC, V8P 5C2 > http://web.uvic.ca/~mroth > > New book: *The Mathematics of Mathematics > directions-in-mathematics-and-science-education/the- > mathematics-of-mathematics/>* > > On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 6:52 AM, Andy Blunden wrote: > > > Thank you for the reference, Michael, but can't you tell me in a sentence > > or two whether there is any such thing as a drive to express one's > > self-identity in activity which is prior to the activity in which > identity > > is formed? > > > > Andy > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Andy Blunden > > http://home.mira.net/~andy > > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making > > On 16/02/2017 1:46 AM, Wolff-Michael Roth wrote: > > > >> Andy, > >> I have worked out some of the issues in an article available online > >> Roth, W.-M. (2009). Identity and community: Differences at heart and > >> futures-to-come. ?ducation et Didactique, 3, 99-118. ( > >> http://educationdidactique.revues.org/582) > >> > >> where "I present a way to realize the Hegel?Marx?Vygotsky?Leont?ev > program > >> of understanding the subject of activity and, correlatively, of > >> understanding the (the culture of the) community with which individuals > >> stand in an irreducible, because mutually constitutive relationship" > >> > >> Michael > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------ > >> -------------------- > >> Wolff-Michael Roth, Lansdowne Professor > >> Applied Cognitive Science > >> MacLaurin Building A567 > >> University of Victoria > >> Victoria, BC, V8P 5C2 > >> http://web.uvic.ca/~mroth > >> > >> New book: *The Mathematics of Mathematics > >> >> ections-in-mathematics-and-science-education/the-mathematics > >> -of-mathematics/>* > >> > >> On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 6:17 AM, wrote: > >> > >> Rob, > >>> So, in the way ?she becomes a pollutant as waste? can a person become > ?an > >>> expressive identity? as a formation of a particular cultural imaginary? > >>> > >>> Not a ?pollutant? or ?an expressive identity? to start with, but > becoming > >>> a pollutant or an expressive identity. > >>> > >>> Sent from my Windows 10 phone > >>> > >>> From: R.J.S.Parsons > >>> Sent: February 15, 2017 3:26 AM > >>> To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: identity expressed or formed by action? > >>> > >>> The idea of waste leads me to Mary Douglas's Purity and Danger. (One of > >>> the books that made me grow up.) She discusses what dirt is - matter > out > >>> of place. Then she discusses all sorts of implications. She doesnt' > >>> discuss the issue of expression vs formation as such, but much of what > >>> she does discuss bears on it. Menstruation comes to mind. In some > >>> societies, women having their periods are perceived as dirty, and they > >>> are seen as untouchable by men. So the way a woman is treated forms in > >>> her the idea that she is a pollutant, or a carrier. She was not one to > >>> start with. > >>> > >>> Rob > >>> > >>> On 15/02/2017 10:21, Laure Kloetzer wrote: > >>> > >>>> Dear Andy, > >>>> > >>>> Interestingly, I had a very similar discussion with some colleagues > >>>> recently not on identity but on... waste. The perspective of one of > our > >>>> students was that investigating what waste is can be done via > >>>> interviews, > >>>> in order to understand how we decide what to through away. I was > arguing > >>>> that waste is not fully defined before action, but that waste is what > we > >>>> through away. The action of throwing away is formative of what count > as > >>>> "waste". > >>>> I thought it might help to step back for one second from the tricky > >>>> question of self-identity and considering more concrete, everyday > >>>> activities before coming back to it... > >>>> Best > >>>> LK > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> 2017-02-15 8:30 GMT+01:00 Andy Blunden : > >>>> > >>>> I would be interested in any helpful comments (other than suggestions > >>>>> > >>>> for > >>> > >>>> more books to read) from my xmca psychologist friends on this problem. > >>>>> > >>>>> In discussion with a friend, who is very au fait with contemporary > >>>>> > >>>> social > >>> > >>>> philosophy, but knows nothing of CHAT, suggested to me a number of > ideas > >>>>> intended to be explanatory (rather than descriptive) of current > social > >>>>> > >>>> and > >>> > >>>> political trends. He talks about the rise of "expressive authenticity" > >>>>> since the 1970s and "collective action as a means to express > selfhood." > >>>>> > >>>> In > >>> > >>>> response, I questioned whether there is any such thing as a drive to > >>>>> *express* one's identity, and that rather, collective action (and > there > >>>>> > >>>> is > >>> > >>>> fundamentally no other kind of action) in pursuit of needs of all > kinds > >>>>> (spiritual, social and material) is *formative* of identity. > >>>>> > >>>>> A classic case for analysis is the well-known observation that > nowadays > >>>>> people purchase (clothes, cars, food, ...) as a means of expressing > >>>>> > >>>> their > >>> > >>>> identity. I question this, because it presumes that there is the > innate > >>>>> drive to express one's identity, which I see no evidence for. I think > >>>>> people adopt dress styles in much the same way that people carry > flags > >>>>> > >>>> - to > >>> > >>>> promote a movement they think positive and to gain social acceptance > in > >>>>> > >>>> it. > >>> > >>>> Identity-formation is a *result* not a cause of this. > >>>>> > >>>>> So, am I wrong? Is identity formation a result or a cause of > activity? > >>>>> > >>>>> Andy > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ > >>>>> Andy Blunden > >>>>> http://home.mira.net/~andy > >>>>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective- > decision-making > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > >>> > >> > > > From lpscholar2@gmail.com Wed Feb 15 09:33:54 2017 From: lpscholar2@gmail.com (lpscholar2@gmail.com) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 09:33:54 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: identity expressed or formed by action? In-Reply-To: <40efea4a-bf0d-aa60-22f8-6f3625131ed9@mira.net> References: <58a46320.d1cc620a.dd298.43fe@mx.google.com> <5a373395-5d9b-180e-d1d4-177f832dcaa4@mira.net> <40efea4a-bf0d-aa60-22f8-6f3625131ed9@mira.net> Message-ID: <58a49138.8140630a.bb883.5f73@mx.google.com> Michael, What resonates are these three phrases *definite form of activity *definite form of expressing their life, *definite mode of life on their part Leading to personal-ity within historic-ity. Thanks for your enlightening paper documenting differences at ?heart? and differences at ?futures-to-come? consistent with?: Bahktin Bergson Husserl Deleuze Derrida Nancy Philosophers of change ? Engaged with starting from an alternative ontology that articulates the processes of flow and development of ?community? and ?identity? Through Their historicity and contingency. The Self understood as inherently Other NOT as its negative But Other as a central aspect of Selfs constitution. Sent from my Windows 10 phone From: Andy Blunden Sent: February 15, 2017 7:25 AM To: Wolff-Michael Roth; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: identity expressed or formed by action? Thank you Martin, Michael and Michael. It seems I was not on the wrong track. I will press the matter further. Thanks again all, Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden http://home.mira.net/~andy http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making On 16/02/2017 2:18 AM, Wolff-Michael Roth wrote: > Andy, I don't think that there is a drive to identity. I > think this view is typical of a constructivist mentalist > approach. In my view, Marx was closer to the point, and > therefore Vygotsky and Leont'ev who use the category of > personality rather than identity. Marx/Engels say > something pertinent in the German Ideology: > > |p. 5| This mode of production must not be considered > simply as being the reproduction of the physical existence > of the individuals. Rather it is a definite form of > activity of these individuals, a definite form of > expressing their life, a definite mode of life on their > part. *As* individuals express their life, so they are. > What they are, therefore, coincides with their production, > both with what they produce and > ? 32 ? > *with how they produce*. *Hence what individuals are > depends on the material conditions of their production*. > (This is from vol. 5 of the International Publishers edition) > > Michael > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Wolff-Michael Roth, Lansdowne Professor > Applied Cognitive Science > MacLaurin Building A567 > University of Victoria > Victoria, BC, V8P 5C2 > http://web.uvic.ca/~mroth > > > New book: */The Mathematics of Mathematics > /* > > On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 6:52 AM, Andy Blunden > > wrote: > > Thank you for the reference, Michael, but can't you > tell me in a sentence or two whether there is any such > thing as a drive to express one's self-identity in > activity which is prior to the activity in which > identity is formed? > > Andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > http://home.mira.net/~andy > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making > > > On 16/02/2017 1:46 AM, Wolff-Michael Roth wrote: > > Andy, > I have worked out some of the issues in an article > available online > Roth, W.-M. (2009). Identity and community: > Differences at heart and > futures-to-come. ?ducation et Didactique, 3, 99-118. ( > http://educationdidactique.revues.org/582 > ) > > where "I present a way to realize the > Hegel?Marx?Vygotsky?Leont?ev program > of understanding the subject of activity and, > correlatively, of > understanding the (the culture of the) community > with which individuals > stand in an irreducible, because mutually > constitutive relationship" > > Michael > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Wolff-Michael Roth, Lansdowne Professor > Applied Cognitive Science > MacLaurin Building A567 > University of Victoria > Victoria, BC, V8P 5C2 > http://web.uvic.ca/~mroth > > > > > New book: *The Mathematics of Mathematics > >* > > On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 6:17 AM, > > wrote: > > Rob, > So, in the way ?she becomes a pollutant as > waste? can a person become ?an > expressive identity? as a formation of a > particular cultural imaginary? > > Not a ?pollutant? or ?an expressive identity? > to start with, but becoming > a pollutant or an expressive identity. > > Sent from my Windows 10 phone > > From: R.J.S.Parsons > Sent: February 15, 2017 3:26 AM > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: identity expressed or > formed by action? > > The idea of waste leads me to Mary Douglas's > Purity and Danger. (One of > the books that made me grow up.) She discusses > what dirt is - matter out > of place. Then she discusses all sorts of > implications. She doesnt' > discuss the issue of expression vs formation > as such, but much of what > she does discuss bears on it. Menstruation > comes to mind. In some > societies, women having their periods are > perceived as dirty, and they > are seen as untouchable by men. So the way a > woman is treated forms in > her the idea that she is a pollutant, or a > carrier. She was not one to > start with. > > Rob > > On 15/02/2017 10:21, Laure Kloetzer wrote: > > Dear Andy, > > Interestingly, I had a very similar > discussion with some colleagues > recently not on identity but on... waste. > The perspective of one of our > students was that investigating what waste > is can be done via interviews, > in order to understand how we decide what > to through away. I was arguing > that waste is not fully defined before > action, but that waste is what we > through away. The action of throwing away > is formative of what count as > "waste". > I thought it might help to step back for > one second from the tricky > question of self-identity and considering > more concrete, everyday > activities before coming back to it... > Best > LK > > > 2017-02-15 8:30 GMT+01:00 Andy Blunden > >: > > I would be interested in any helpful > comments (other than suggestions > > for > > more books to read) from my xmca > psychologist friends on this problem. > > In discussion with a friend, who is > very au fait with contemporary > > social > > philosophy, but knows nothing of CHAT, > suggested to me a number of ideas > intended to be explanatory (rather > than descriptive) of current social > > and > > political trends. He talks about the > rise of "expressive authenticity" > since the 1970s and "collective action > as a means to express selfhood." > > In > > response, I questioned whether there > is any such thing as a drive to > *express* one's identity, and that > rather, collective action (and there > > is > > fundamentally no other kind of action) > in pursuit of needs of all kinds > (spiritual, social and material) is > *formative* of identity. > > A classic case for analysis is the > well-known observation that nowadays > people purchase (clothes, cars, food, > ...) as a means of expressing > > their > > identity. I question this, because it > presumes that there is the innate > drive to express one's identity, which > I see no evidence for. I think > people adopt dress styles in much the > same way that people carry flags > > - to > > promote a movement they think positive > and to gain social acceptance in > > it. > > Identity-formation is a *result* not a > cause of this. > > So, am I wrong? Is identity formation > a result or a cause of activity? > > Andy > > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > http://home.mira.net/~andy > > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making > > > > > > > From lpscholar2@gmail.com Wed Feb 15 10:00:19 2017 From: lpscholar2@gmail.com (lpscholar2@gmail.com) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 10:00:19 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: identity expressed or formed by action? In-Reply-To: References: <58a46320.d1cc620a.dd298.43fe@mx.google.com> <5a373395-5d9b-180e-d1d4-177f832dcaa4@mira.net> Message-ID: <58a4976a.159b620a.dfe9a.62b1@mx.google.com> Michael, On page 2 of your article on difference at ?heart? you say?: CULTURE always is other than itself and therefore IN A STRONG SENSE is NOT... ?community? and ?identity? AS .... Different from themselves. This relates to the thread on performance studies. Sent from my Windows 10 phone From: Wolff-Michael Roth Sent: February 15, 2017 7:20 AM To: Andy Blunden; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: identity expressed or formed by action? Andy, I don't think that there is a drive to identity. I think this view is typical of a constructivist mentalist approach. In my view, Marx was closer to the point, and therefore Vygotsky and Leont'ev who use the category of personality rather than identity. Marx/Engels say something pertinent in the German Ideology: |p. 5| This mode of production must not be considered simply as being the reproduction of the physical existence of the individuals. Rather it is a definite form of activity of these individuals, a definite form of expressing their life, a definite mode of life on their part. *As* individuals express their life, so they are. What they are, therefore, coincides with their production, both with what they produce and ? 32 ? *with how they produce*. *Hence what individuals are depends on the material conditions of their production*. (This is from vol. 5 of the International Publishers edition) Michael -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wolff-Michael Roth, Lansdowne Professor Applied Cognitive Science MacLaurin Building A567 University of Victoria Victoria, BC, V8P 5C2 http://web.uvic.ca/~mroth New book: *The Mathematics of Mathematics * On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 6:52 AM, Andy Blunden wrote: > Thank you for the reference, Michael, but can't you tell me in a sentence > or two whether there is any such thing as a drive to express one's > self-identity in activity which is prior to the activity in which identity > is formed? > > Andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > http://home.mira.net/~andy > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making > On 16/02/2017 1:46 AM, Wolff-Michael Roth wrote: > >> Andy, >> I have worked out some of the issues in an article available online >> Roth, W.-M. (2009). Identity and community: Differences at heart and >> futures-to-come. ?ducation et Didactique, 3, 99-118. ( >> http://educationdidactique.revues.org/582) >> >> where "I present a way to realize the Hegel?Marx?Vygotsky?Leont?ev program >> of understanding the subject of activity and, correlatively, of >> understanding the (the culture of the) community with which individuals >> stand in an irreducible, because mutually constitutive relationship" >> >> Michael >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> -------------------- >> Wolff-Michael Roth, Lansdowne Professor >> Applied Cognitive Science >> MacLaurin Building A567 >> University of Victoria >> Victoria, BC, V8P 5C2 >> http://web.uvic.ca/~mroth >> >> New book: *The Mathematics of Mathematics >> > ections-in-mathematics-and-science-education/the-mathematics >> -of-mathematics/>* >> >> On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 6:17 AM, wrote: >> >> Rob, >>> So, in the way ?she becomes a pollutant as waste? can a person become ?an >>> expressive identity? as a formation of a particular cultural imaginary? >>> >>> Not a ?pollutant? or ?an expressive identity? to start with, but becoming >>> a pollutant or an expressive identity. >>> >>> Sent from my Windows 10 phone >>> >>> From: R.J.S.Parsons >>> Sent: February 15, 2017 3:26 AM >>> To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: identity expressed or formed by action? >>> >>> The idea of waste leads me to Mary Douglas's Purity and Danger. (One of >>> the books that made me grow up.) She discusses what dirt is - matter out >>> of place. Then she discusses all sorts of implications. She doesnt' >>> discuss the issue of expression vs formation as such, but much of what >>> she does discuss bears on it. Menstruation comes to mind. In some >>> societies, women having their periods are perceived as dirty, and they >>> are seen as untouchable by men. So the way a woman is treated forms in >>> her the idea that she is a pollutant, or a carrier. She was not one to >>> start with. >>> >>> Rob >>> >>> On 15/02/2017 10:21, Laure Kloetzer wrote: >>> >>>> Dear Andy, >>>> >>>> Interestingly, I had a very similar discussion with some colleagues >>>> recently not on identity but on... waste. The perspective of one of our >>>> students was that investigating what waste is can be done via >>>> interviews, >>>> in order to understand how we decide what to through away. I was arguing >>>> that waste is not fully defined before action, but that waste is what we >>>> through away. The action of throwing away is formative of what count as >>>> "waste". >>>> I thought it might help to step back for one second from the tricky >>>> question of self-identity and considering more concrete, everyday >>>> activities before coming back to it... >>>> Best >>>> LK >>>> >>>> >>>> 2017-02-15 8:30 GMT+01:00 Andy Blunden : >>>> >>>> I would be interested in any helpful comments (other than suggestions >>>>> >>>> for >>> >>>> more books to read) from my xmca psychologist friends on this problem. >>>>> >>>>> In discussion with a friend, who is very au fait with contemporary >>>>> >>>> social >>> >>>> philosophy, but knows nothing of CHAT, suggested to me a number of ideas >>>>> intended to be explanatory (rather than descriptive) of current social >>>>> >>>> and >>> >>>> political trends. He talks about the rise of "expressive authenticity" >>>>> since the 1970s and "collective action as a means to express selfhood." >>>>> >>>> In >>> >>>> response, I questioned whether there is any such thing as a drive to >>>>> *express* one's identity, and that rather, collective action (and there >>>>> >>>> is >>> >>>> fundamentally no other kind of action) in pursuit of needs of all kinds >>>>> (spiritual, social and material) is *formative* of identity. >>>>> >>>>> A classic case for analysis is the well-known observation that nowadays >>>>> people purchase (clothes, cars, food, ...) as a means of expressing >>>>> >>>> their >>> >>>> identity. I question this, because it presumes that there is the innate >>>>> drive to express one's identity, which I see no evidence for. I think >>>>> people adopt dress styles in much the same way that people carry flags >>>>> >>>> - to >>> >>>> promote a movement they think positive and to gain social acceptance in >>>>> >>>> it. >>> >>>> Identity-formation is a *result* not a cause of this. >>>>> >>>>> So, am I wrong? Is identity formation a result or a cause of activity? >>>>> >>>>> Andy >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> Andy Blunden >>>>> http://home.mira.net/~andy >>>>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >> > From bferholt@gmail.com Wed Feb 15 10:03:18 2017 From: bferholt@gmail.com (Beth Ferholt) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 13:03:18 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Gunilla's 1996 paper In-Reply-To: <589b857a.5156620a.5bbf5.bae1@mx.google.com> References: <1486484311120.76271@iped.uio.no> <1486485450404.30884@iped.uio.no> <4D6F5A74-ABFD-4FAD-989A-65F0A22AA065@osu.edu> <589b857a.5156620a.5bbf5.bae1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Thank you! A very interesting way to discuss this -- It has mean thinking about it anew, Beth On Wed, Feb 8, 2017 at 3:53 PM, wrote: > Beth, > > This most recent article fleshes out and makes distinct Gunilla?s > contribution to re-interpreting Vygotsky and moving away from Leontiev who > believes children are modelling themselves on adults. i will quote a > paragraph from page 930 of your and Monica?s article that should give pause > as we move around and through this topic of playworlds : > > > > Of central importance to Lindqvist?s (1995, p. 50) theory of play is her > positioning of herself in opposition to Leontiev, whom she characterizes as > believing that adult roles are what children plat at, as believing that > children?s ?play faces the future? because children in play are MODELING > themselves on adults. She explains that Leontiev thinks of play as > REPRODUCTION of roles in an adult world, not as PRODUCTIVE. Here Lindqvist > is arguing that children are, often, modeling themselves on adults in play, > but that play faces a future that will be created, in part, by those who > are now children, and that will be created within some constraints that > those who are now adults cannot even imagine. > > Lindqvist?s contribution to play theory derives in part from her ability > to interpret Vygotsky?s work from outside the cultural, historical, and > political context in which it was created. > > > > > > I offer this paragraph because when I read the above quote in which the > semantic ?()? challenges what in particular children are modelling (i.e. > adults) this leaves open the centrality of the modelling process itself as > the focus and not being **an adult**. > > > > When Gunilla introduces **fear** figuratively AS the person under the > bed, a modelling process is presented in a shared world but that modelling > is not focusing on being **an adult**. > > Now the modelling process can be **an adult** or the modelling process > can be **fear**. > > > > Each are particular instances of this modelling process. The modelling > becomes the central focus. If we treat ?adult? as real and ?fear? as > pretend and draw a RIGID boundary ?marker? between modelling (an adult) and > modelling (fear) as two opposite phenomena, we seem to loose the actual > phenomena of modelling and its centrality. > > > > When **fear** is actualized as a person and **an adult** is actualized as > a person, children can model either within a dramatic ?()?. > > This phenomena has many sides in the way Merleau Ponty images ?sides? or > aspects. For example if we face the forward or side of something we > imagine the back ?side? and move to verify this in space. It seems **fear** > and **an adult** as somethings offer faces in the cloud that are examples > of modelling phenomena. This no longer privileges **an adult** as more > central than **fear** as phenomena modelled. > > Or so it seems? > > > > > > > > Sent from my Windows 10 phone > > > > *From: *Beth Ferholt > *Sent: *February 8, 2017 8:48 AM > *To: *laure.kloetzer@gmail.com; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: Gunilla's 1996 paper > > > > Let Monica and I know if there are others you are looking for, Laura, and > > maybe this is helpful? She wrote several things that should be read more > > than they are! Or more should be translated... Beth > > > > On Tue, Feb 7, 2017 at 1:56 PM, Laure Kloetzer > > wrote: > > > > > Dear Brian, > > > > > > Thank you so much for sharing ! Very interesting for me indeed. > > > > > > I decided to work on play with my students this semester as it is a > > > wonderful and engaging entry into a lot of fascinating dimensions of > > > learning & culture. I also plan to make them work on classical works by > > > Piaget and Vygotsky, and help them test the hypotheses of these authors > on > > > real observations of play. > > > > > > Best, > > > LK > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2017-02-07 19:05 GMT+01:00 Edmiston, Brian W. : > > > > > > > Thanks so much, Alfredo > > > > > > > > Laure, you might be interested in this chapter of mine in which I build > > > on > > > > Lindqvist?s work > > > > It's coming out in the new Routledge Handbook of Early Childhood Play > > > > (I know Beth has a chapter in there too) > > > > > > > > Brian Edmiston > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 7 Feb 2017, at 11:37 am, Alfredo Jornet Gil > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I see. Here is the article! I think this time is right. > > > > > > > > > > Alfredo > > > > > ________________________________________ > > > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu edu > > > > > > > > on behalf of Alfredo Jornet Gil > > > > > Sent: 07 February 2017 17:18 > > > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity; laure.kloetzer@gmail.com > > > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Gunilla's 1996 paper > > > > > > > > > > Hi Laure, > > > > > > > > > > I find this online. not the best copy, but one available. See if you > > > can > > > > download it (it's 3MB big, can make it smaller and share if you could > not > > > > download) > > > > > http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED396824.pdf > > > > > Hope it helps, > > > > > Alfredo > > > > > ________________________________________ > > > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu edu > > > > > > > > on behalf of Laure Kloetzer > > > > > Sent: 07 February 2017 17:01 > > > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Gunilla's 1996 paper > > > > > > > > > > Dear colleagues, > > > > > > > > > > After a desperate search for Gunilla's classical paper in my Swiss > > > > > libraries, I am asking the community for some help. Would one of you > > > > have a > > > > > pdf copy of: > > > > > > > > > > Lindqvist, G. (1996). The aesthetics of play. A didactic study of > play > > > > and > > > > > culture in preschools. *Early Years*, *17*(1), 6-11. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot for your help ! > > > > > Best regards > > > > > LK > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Beth Ferholt > > Assistant Professor > > Department of Early Childhood and Art Education > > Brooklyn College, City University of New York > > 2900 Bedford Avenue > > Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 > > > > Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu > > Phone: (718) 951-5205 > > Fax: (718) 951-4816 > > > -- Beth Ferholt Assistant Professor Department of Early Childhood and Art Education Brooklyn College, City University of New York 2900 Bedford Avenue Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu Phone: (718) 951-5205 Fax: (718) 951-4816 From leifstrandberg.ab@telia.com Wed Feb 15 10:10:59 2017 From: leifstrandberg.ab@telia.com (Leif Strandberg) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 19:10:59 +0100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Gunilla's 1996 paper In-Reply-To: References: <1486484311120.76271@iped.uio.no> <1486485450404.30884@iped.uio.no> <4D6F5A74-ABFD-4FAD-989A-65F0A22AA065@osu.edu> <589b857a.5156620a.5bbf5.bae1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Gunilla Lindqvist When Small Children Play how adults.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 180449 bytes Desc: not available Url : https://mailman.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/xmca-l/attachments/20170215/b9deb31f/attachment.pdf -------------- next part -------------- greetings from Sweden Leif 15 feb 2017 kl. 19:03 skrev Beth Ferholt : > Thank you! A very interesting way to discuss this -- It has mean thinking > about it anew, Beth > > On Wed, Feb 8, 2017 at 3:53 PM, wrote: > >> Beth, >> >> This most recent article fleshes out and makes distinct Gunilla?s >> contribution to re-interpreting Vygotsky and moving away from Leontiev who >> believes children are modelling themselves on adults. i will quote a >> paragraph from page 930 of your and Monica?s article that should give pause >> as we move around and through this topic of playworlds : >> >> >> >> Of central importance to Lindqvist?s (1995, p. 50) theory of play is her >> positioning of herself in opposition to Leontiev, whom she characterizes as >> believing that adult roles are what children plat at, as believing that >> children?s ?play faces the future? because children in play are MODELING >> themselves on adults. She explains that Leontiev thinks of play as >> REPRODUCTION of roles in an adult world, not as PRODUCTIVE. Here Lindqvist >> is arguing that children are, often, modeling themselves on adults in play, >> but that play faces a future that will be created, in part, by those who >> are now children, and that will be created within some constraints that >> those who are now adults cannot even imagine. >> >> Lindqvist?s contribution to play theory derives in part from her ability >> to interpret Vygotsky?s work from outside the cultural, historical, and >> political context in which it was created. >> >> >> >> >> >> I offer this paragraph because when I read the above quote in which the >> semantic ?()? challenges what in particular children are modelling (i.e. >> adults) this leaves open the centrality of the modelling process itself as >> the focus and not being **an adult**. >> >> >> >> When Gunilla introduces **fear** figuratively AS the person under the >> bed, a modelling process is presented in a shared world but that modelling >> is not focusing on being **an adult**. >> >> Now the modelling process can be **an adult** or the modelling process >> can be **fear**. >> >> >> >> Each are particular instances of this modelling process. The modelling >> becomes the central focus. If we treat ?adult? as real and ?fear? as >> pretend and draw a RIGID boundary ?marker? between modelling (an adult) and >> modelling (fear) as two opposite phenomena, we seem to loose the actual >> phenomena of modelling and its centrality. >> >> >> >> When **fear** is actualized as a person and **an adult** is actualized as >> a person, children can model either within a dramatic ?()?. >> >> This phenomena has many sides in the way Merleau Ponty images ?sides? or >> aspects. For example if we face the forward or side of something we >> imagine the back ?side? and move to verify this in space. It seems **fear** >> and **an adult** as somethings offer faces in the cloud that are examples >> of modelling phenomena. This no longer privileges **an adult** as more >> central than **fear** as phenomena modelled. >> >> Or so it seems? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my Windows 10 phone >> >> >> >> *From: *Beth Ferholt >> *Sent: *February 8, 2017 8:48 AM >> *To: *laure.kloetzer@gmail.com; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >> >> >> *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: Gunilla's 1996 paper >> >> >> >> Let Monica and I know if there are others you are looking for, Laura, and >> >> maybe this is helpful? She wrote several things that should be read more >> >> than they are! Or more should be translated... Beth >> >> >> >> On Tue, Feb 7, 2017 at 1:56 PM, Laure Kloetzer >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> Dear Brian, >> >>> >> >>> Thank you so much for sharing ! Very interesting for me indeed. >> >>> >> >>> I decided to work on play with my students this semester as it is a >> >>> wonderful and engaging entry into a lot of fascinating dimensions of >> >>> learning & culture. I also plan to make them work on classical works by >> >>> Piaget and Vygotsky, and help them test the hypotheses of these authors >> on >> >>> real observations of play. >> >>> >> >>> Best, >> >>> LK >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> 2017-02-07 19:05 GMT+01:00 Edmiston, Brian W. : >> >>> >> >>>> Thanks so much, Alfredo >> >>>> >> >>>> Laure, you might be interested in this chapter of mine in which I build >> >>> on >> >>>> Lindqvist?s work >> >>>> It's coming out in the new Routledge Handbook of Early Childhood Play >> >>>> (I know Beth has a chapter in there too) >> >>>> >> >>>> Brian Edmiston >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>> On 7 Feb 2017, at 11:37 am, Alfredo Jornet Gil >> >>>> wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>> I see. Here is the article! I think this time is right. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Alfredo >> >>>>> ________________________________________ >> >>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > edu >> >>>> >> >>>> on behalf of Alfredo Jornet Gil >> >>>>> Sent: 07 February 2017 17:18 >> >>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity; laure.kloetzer@gmail.com >> >>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Gunilla's 1996 paper >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Hi Laure, >> >>>>> >> >>>>> I find this online. not the best copy, but one available. See if you >> >>> can >> >>>> download it (it's 3MB big, can make it smaller and share if you could >> not >> >>>> download) >> >>>>> http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED396824.pdf >> >>>>> Hope it helps, >> >>>>> Alfredo >> >>>>> ________________________________________ >> >>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > edu >> >>>> >> >>>> on behalf of Laure Kloetzer >> >>>>> Sent: 07 February 2017 17:01 >> >>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >> >>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Gunilla's 1996 paper >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Dear colleagues, >> >>>>> >> >>>>> After a desperate search for Gunilla's classical paper in my Swiss >> >>>>> libraries, I am asking the community for some help. Would one of you >> >>>> have a >> >>>>> pdf copy of: >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Lindqvist, G. (1996). The aesthetics of play. A didactic study of >> play >> >>>> and >> >>>>> culture in preschools. *Early Years*, *17*(1), 6-11. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Thanks a lot for your help ! >> >>>>> Best regards >> >>>>> LK >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Beth Ferholt >> >> Assistant Professor >> >> Department of Early Childhood and Art Education >> >> Brooklyn College, City University of New York >> >> 2900 Bedford Avenue >> >> Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 >> >> >> >> Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu >> >> Phone: (718) 951-5205 >> >> Fax: (718) 951-4816 >> >> >> > > > > -- > Beth Ferholt > Assistant Professor > Department of Early Childhood and Art Education > Brooklyn College, City University of New York > 2900 Bedford Avenue > Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 > > Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu > Phone: (718) 951-5205 > Fax: (718) 951-4816 From helenaworthen@gmail.com Wed Feb 15 10:23:34 2017 From: helenaworthen@gmail.com (Helena Worthen) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 10:23:34 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: actions within academia In-Reply-To: References: <003601d2776d$2cc0a910$8641fb30$@att.net> <003a01d27774$a0aeaf00$e20c0d00$@att.net> <588a1d8b.c280630a.7710d.bdd6@mx.google.com> <002401d277f4$d8da5ac0$8a8f1040$@att.net> <588a317a.1121620a.8e1ba.d866@mx.google.com> <71E849D1-5353-4DDA-BA83-F1DF29820355@gmail.com> <88AB2869-5898-4F23-BB2E-6CCD490C96F7@umn.edu> <1486190026596.25381@iped.uio.no> <563DC5C2-5A29-4F62-9444-8D6B1D275857@umn.edu> <034D32A2-D0A6-455E-8580-FAFE881A108A@gmail.com> <9432F663-5CCE-4D35-9FAB-2235D83A5044@gmail.com>, Message-ID: Thanks, Wendy. Re, "the lack of resistance". Here's a moment when identity might precede activity. If I say, "I am X kind of person, therefore I will speak up now and make a problem for the implementation of this policy," that's identity preceding activity, right? But in that moment one also weighs the likelihood of performing career suicide -- unless there are enough of X kinds of people to make it a collective activity. This is a loop, not a fork. H Helena Worthen helenaworthen@gmail.com Vietnam blog: helenaworthen.wordpress.com On Feb 15, 2017, at 4:19 AM, Wendy Maples wrote: > Yes, thank you Helena. This is quite right. The university where I am currently working has recently successfully implemented zero hours contracts for part-time tutors, with hardly a murmur from full-time staff, who have themselves been divided into 'research' and 'teaching-only' faculty (needless to say most of the boards agreeing these decisions are made up of the professoriat). While the rationale for this is completely understandable and (in this particular case) not necessarily deleterious, there is a wider issue of the culture that enables this. The implementation of capitalist-managerial caste-based systems appears to be accelerating. I'm not saying the old academic tenure system was without its flaws (I'm a female academic after all), but the acceleration of these new systems and the lack of resistance to them is worrying. > > BTW, just heard a key note by Martin Weller ('the open researcher') who is himself now a bit more concerned about some of the risks of being open, and was arguing that individual academics need to know they have the support of their institutions. I worry that, increasingly, they/we don't/won't. > > Wendy > > > ________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Andrew Babson > Sent: 15 February 2017 11:13 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: actions within academia > > I cannot recommend Helena's email highly enough. The casualization of the > academic workforce is not some kind of natural disaster. It's been > engineered as a neoliberal two-fer: academia becomes a "business", and > faculty become divided and weak. Joining a faculty union is the best first > response to this. The radicalized GOP has tenure and faculty power in their > crosshairs. Without institutional power, we can't teach well or do our best > research. Faculty who choose to ignore any of this are part of the problem. > > On Sat, Feb 4, 2017 at 8:10 PM, Helena Worthen > wrote: > >> Actions within academia? Following the advice of thinking globally, acting >> locally, don?t forget the third kind of action within academia: paying >> attention to the faculty workforce itself, which is has been deteriorating >> into a gig economy for the last 30 plus years. If there is organizing going >> on among adjuncts on your campus, seek it out and support it; if there is a >> campus coalition of university-wide unions (which will mean secretaries, >> techies, landscapers, food workers, transportation and custodial workers as >> well as faculty of all levels), attend meetings and be supportive; in >> faculty meetings, insist on adjuncts/lecturers be treated equally. If a new >> kind of program gets floated (for example, an online degree) ask, ?Who is >> doing this work? What are their working conditions?? >> >> It?s amazing what a strong workforce-wide coalition can do to slow down >> the construction of luxury rec facilities and the closure of language or >> ethnic studies programs. >> >> Third kind meaning in addition to doing research or designing curriculum >> that has progressive content or protecting structures of opportunity that >> reduce inequality. >> >> H >> >> Helena Worthen >> helenaworthen@gmail.com >> Berkeley, CA 94707 >> Blog about US and Viet Nam: helenaworthen.wordpress.com >> >> >> >>> On Feb 4, 2017, at 4:35 PM, HENRY SHONERD wrote: >>> >>> Richard, >>> Many thanks for this. What great resources! Medaiting artefacts. They >> come at a good time for my wife and me as far as what needs to be done in >> the larger social domain. Distributed agency at different scales. Within >> each circle we need trust and respect of one another. That really resonates >> all through. I like the metaphor of electro-magnetic field. It was in the >> title of my letter honoring Vera in the book Bob Lake and Cathrene Connery >> edited. (Shout out to Bob and Cathrene!) Part of Vera?s magic circle we >> are. So the circles are across generations. (Shout out to Vera!) Such cool >> people on the chat. But warm blooded. (Shout out to Andy!) >>> Henry >>> >>>> On Feb 4, 2017, at 2:46 PM, Richard Beach wrote: >>>> >>>> Mike, regarding your call for action on campuses, my concern is that >> people may accept a passive stance as individuals assuming that they lack >> agency to make change as opposed to achieving distributed agency (Enfield, >> 2013) through exposure to examples of collective activism so that they >> achieve agency through co-action with others. Students and researchers >> could examine examples of current organized efforts from a CHAT perspective >> in terms of use of certain tools and norms to achieve certain >> objects/outcomes, for example: >>>> >>>> - Our Revolution national organization website < >> https://ourrevolution.com/> > Our Revolution - Our Revolution > ourrevolution.com > The next step for Bernie Sanders' movement is a new group called Our Revolution, which will fight to transform America and advance the progressive agenda that we ... > > > >>>> >>>> - Indivisible: A Practical Guide for Resisting the Trump Agenda < >> https://www.indivisibleguide.com/web/>: Former congressional staffers >> reveal best practices for making Congress listen >>>> >>>> - Courage Campaign : A California-based > Courage Campaign > couragecampaign.org > Join the fights for a more progressive California and country. We are an online community of activists powered by more than 1,000,000 members. > > > >> organization of 1.3 million members promoting progressive agendas >>>> >>>> - Swing Left : Targets swing districts to > [https://swingleft.org/dist/imgs/logo.png] > > Swing Left | Take Back the House > swingleft.org > Control of the House in 2018 will be decided in a handful of Swing Districts. We can stop the Trump agenda by joining together NOW, wherever we live. > > > >> promote candidates for the 2018 election. >>>> Consistent with a CHAT perspective, to avoid students framing the >> political space in individualist terms?as Trump does in his attacks on >> critics, it?s also useful for students and researchers to examine issues in >> terms of competing systems associated with institutional forces and change. >> For example, in addressing climate change, students and researchers can >> examine the intersections between ecological, economic, agriculture, legal, >> political, urban design/housing, transportation, schooling, health care, >> military, media, and scientific research as systems related to climate >> change. For example, the agribusiness agricultural system of monocrop/beef >> production is a major contributor to CO2 emissions related to climate >> change. Students can also examine examples of legal and political efforts >> as systems associated with addressing climate change issues < >> http://climatechangeela.pbworks.com/w/page/103010995/ >> Chapter%209%20%C2%A0Links>, for example, a group of students in Orego >> n > federal-lawsuit/index.html> who have a lawsuit in federal courts suing >> the U. S. Government for failing to address climate change. >>>> >>>> >>>> Richard Beach, Professor Emeritus of English Education, University of >> Minnesota >>>> rbeach@umn.edu >>>> Websites: Digital writing , Media >> literacy , Teaching literature >> , Identity-focused ELA Teaching < >> http://identities.pbworks.com/>, Common Core State Standards < >> http://englishccss.pbworks.com/>, Apps for literacy learning < >> http://usingipads.pbworks.com/>, Teaching about climate change < >> http://climatechangeela.pbworks.com/> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Feb 4, 2017, at 11:55 AM, mike cole wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Richard and Alfredo >>>>> >>>>> I keep coming back to the question of how we, as academics, located in >> the >>>>> system of higher education, researchers on the social creation of >> social >>>>> inequality, ought to be re-orienting our research in light of the >>>>> re-surrection of global nationalist/populism. >>>>> >>>>> So for me, its important to focus on concrete exemplars that might >> unloose >>>>> this potential: "shock events' possibility not only for separating but >> for >>>>> actually offering opportunities to re-organize and unite priorly >> separated >>>>> forces." >>>>> >>>>> In a recent discussion at LCHC, this topic came up in terms of how to >>>>> connect our research and our undergraduates to the life of the >> communities >>>>> whose children do not make it to the university. Such an effort >> requires >>>>> coordination of a variety of dis-articulated groups with a common >> concern >>>>> about socially and culturally marginalized, econonomically stressed, >>>>> communities. >>>>> >>>>> The challenge of engaging successfully in such work and satisfying the >>>>> academic production requirements of their academic personnel committees >>>>> seems a major challenge. >>>>> >>>>> Positive suggestions of how to meet this challenge would be warmly >> accepted. >>>>> >>>>> mike >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 10:33 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < >> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for sharing Richard, I had seen Richardson's analysis online. >> In >>>>>> fact the amount of analyses in the media that this crisis is >> generating is >>>>>> overwhelming, but also very encouraging and gives hopes towards >>>>>> Richardson's notes on shock events' possibility not only for >> separating but >>>>>> for actually offering opportunities to re-organize and unite priorly >>>>>> separated forces. I wonder, if Lincoln managed without the web and the >>>>>> i-phone, will it happen today? >>>>>> >>>>>> Alfredo >>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > edu> >>>>>> on behalf of Richard Beach >>>>>> Sent: 03 February 2017 00:28 >>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Bannon's actions as "shock event" >>>>>> >>>>>> Here?s an interesting analysis of Bannon?s actions on banning >> immigrants >>>>>> that?s related to Bakhtin?s notion of ?eventness? and Roth?s (2014) >>>>>> analysis of ?events-in-the-making? associated with the experience of >>>>>> unfolding events with unpredictable consequences. We still don?t know >> what >>>>>> the fallout will be from attempts to implement this ban. >>>>>> >>>>>>> From Heather Richardson, professor of History at Boston College: >>>>>> >>>>>> "I don't like to talk about politics on Facebook-- political history >> is my >>>>>> job, after all, and you are my friends-- but there is an important >>>>>> non-partisan point to make today. >>>>>> >>>>>> What Bannon is doing, most dramatically with last night's ban on >>>>>> immigration from seven predominantly Muslim countries-- is creating >> what is >>>>>> known as a "shock event." >>>>>> >>>>>> Such an event is unexpected and confusing and throws a society into >> chaos. >>>>>> People scramble to react to the event, usually along some fault line >> that >>>>>> those responsible for the event can widen by claiming that they alone >> know >>>>>> how to restore order. >>>>>> >>>>>> When opponents speak out, the authors of the shock event call them >>>>>> enemies. As society reels and tempers run high, those responsible for >> the >>>>>> shock event perform a sleight of hand to achieve their real goal, a >> goal >>>>>> they know to be hugely unpopular, but from which everyone has been >>>>>> distracted as they fight over the initial event. There is no longer >>>>>> concerted opposition to the real goal; opposition divides along the >>>>>> partisan lines established by the shock event. >>>>>> >>>>>> Last night's Executive Order has all the hallmarks of a shock event. >> It >>>>>> was not reviewed by any governmental agencies or lawyers before it was >>>>>> released, and counterterrorism experts insist they did not ask for it. >>>>>> People charged with enforcing it got no instructions about how to do >> so. >>>>>> Courts immediately have declared parts of it unconstitutional, but >> border >>>>>> police in some airports are refusing to stop enforcing it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Predictably, chaos has followed and tempers are hot. >>>>>> >>>>>> My point today is this: unless you are the person setting it up, it >> is in >>>>>> no one's interest to play the shock event game. It is designed >> explicitly >>>>>> to divide people who might otherwise come together so they cannot >> stand >>>>>> against something its authors think they won't like. >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't know what Bannon is up to-- although I have some guesses-- but >>>>>> because I know Bannon's ideas well, I am positive that there is not a >>>>>> single person whom I consider a friend on either side of the aisle-- >> and my >>>>>> friends range pretty widely-- who will benefit from whatever it is. >>>>>> >>>>>> If the shock event strategy works, though, many of you will blame each >>>>>> other, rather than Bannon, for the fallout. And the country will have >> been >>>>>> tricked into accepting their real goal. >>>>>> >>>>>> But because shock events destabilize a society, they can also be used >>>>>> positively. We do not have to respond along old fault lines. We could >> just >>>>>> as easily reorganize into a different pattern that threatens the >> people who >>>>>> sparked the event. >>>>>> >>>>>> A successful shock event depends on speed and chaos because it >> requires >>>>>> knee-jerk reactions so that people divide along established lines. >> This, >>>>>> for example, is how Confederate leaders railroaded the initial >> southern >>>>>> states out of the Union. >>>>>> >>>>>> If people realize they are being played, though, they can reach >> across old >>>>>> lines and reorganize to challenge the leaders who are pulling the >> strings. >>>>>> This was Lincoln's strategy when he joined together Whigs, Democrats, >>>>>> Free-Soilers, anti-Nebraska voters, and nativists into the new >> Republican >>>>>> Party to stand against the Slave Power. >>>>>> >>>>>> Five years before, such a coalition would have been unimaginable. >> Members >>>>>> of those groups agreed on very little other than that they wanted all >>>>>> Americans to have equal economic opportunity. Once they began to work >>>>>> together to promote a fair economic system, though, they found much >> common >>>>>> ground. They ended up rededicating the nation to a "government of the >>>>>> people, by the people, and for the people." >>>>>> >>>>>> Confederate leaders and Lincoln both knew about the political >> potential of >>>>>> a shock event. As we are in the midst of one, it seems worth noting >> that >>>>>> Lincoln seemed to have the better idea about how to use it." >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Richard Beach, Professor Emeritus of English Education, University of >>>>>> Minnesota >>>>>> rbeach@umn.edu >>>>>> Websites: Digital writing , Media >>>>>> literacy , Teaching >> literature >>>>>> , Identity-focused ELA >> Teaching < >>>>>> http://identities.pbworks.com/>, Common Core State Standards < >>>>>> http://englishccss.pbworks.com/>, Apps for literacy learning < >>>>>> http://usingipads.pbworks.com/>, Teaching about climate change < >>>>>> http://climatechangeela.pbworks.com/> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Jan 26, 2017, at 10:16 AM, Helena Worthen < >> helenaworthen@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On the subject of dividing, here is an ugly snapshot of the wedge >>>>>> getting driven in ? the building trades unions finding common ground >> with >>>>>> Trump as a ?developer.? The other deeply regressive unions are the >> prison >>>>>> guards and police. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2017/01/building-trades-allow- >>>>>> themselves-to-be-played-like-fools >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I attend monthly discussion groups in the Bay Area organized around >>>>>> readings from the magazine Jacobin. I like these because the other >>>>>> participants are mostly 20s and early 30s, techies or grad students. >> Very >>>>>> smart, very alert, very well-read and articulate. They are stamped, >>>>>> however, with evidence of never having studied history. (Philosophy, >> yes ? >>>>>> which is interesting.) To many of them, the building trades and police >>>>>> unions are typical of the political position of labor unions. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So they see LIUNA leaders meeting with Trump and smear the whole >> labor >>>>>> movement with it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> H >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Helena Worthen >>>>>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com >>>>>>> Berkeley, CA 94707 >>>>>>> Blog about US and Viet Nam: helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Jan 26, 2017, at 9:26 AM, < >>>>>> lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes, >>>>>>>> Today, the strategy of dividing, leaving us in disarray, is how i >>>>>> experience the deluge of draconian executive ?orders? that leaves me >>>>>> spinning. >>>>>>>> Leaves me questioning where to start. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Exposing the disarray on the other side in concrete ways (Koch vs >>>>>> Mercer) is a valuable addition to our ways of responding. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my Windows 10 phone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From: Peg Griffin >>>>>>>> Sent: January 26, 2017 8:57 AM >>>>>>>> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' >>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg >> referred to >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> At this point, Larry, I'm content to rise to as much concrete as I >> can >>>>>> get near, until at least the late spring, to get at ideas and >>>>>> contradictions, to keep moving and supporting so I'm in enough places >> to >>>>>> and bits of the movement to find the productive places for me. >>>>>>>> A mini-mission of mine right now is to get people to recognize the >>>>>> divide among the big money folks in the US -- the Mercer father >> daughter >>>>>> beat the Koch brothers within the Republican moneyed. >>>>>>>> The other side works hard to divide us and take advantage of the >>>>>> disarray, so why not pay attention when they are dividing themselves! >>>>>>>> No use being a day late and a dollar short about who's who! >>>>>>>> Maybe it's just that my great uncle was in vaudeville and showed us >>>>>> three yammering nieces a super card game called "52 pick-up." It's >> not too >>>>>> good too often for too long but everyone once in a while it's not a >> bad >>>>>> game. >>>>>>>> PG >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >>>>>> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of lpscholar2@gmail.com >>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 11:02 AM >>>>>>>> To: Peg Griffin; 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' >>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg >> referred to >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Peg, Mike, >>>>>>>> Reading these two articles on BigData and remembering how funding >> will >>>>>> be given to academic research that slots into being verified (or >> negated) >>>>>> through BigData is profoundly disturbing and leaves me with a sense of >>>>>> inertia at the scope of the alienation involved in this manipulation. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Using Simmel?s back and forth notion of the relation of (distance >> and >>>>>> intimacy) and finding the proper ratio depending on the events >> occuring >>>>>> then the proper relation between distance and intimacy will be >> shifting in >>>>>> scope in each historical era. >>>>>>>> Will our response to the vast distance incarnated through BIgData >>>>>> require intimate responses as counterpoint?? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If this is LIKE the 1930?s, do we have any answers from the past >> that >>>>>> give glimmers of a way forward that can be responsive at scale to the >>>>>> distancing of BigData? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my Windows 10 phone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From: Peg Griffin >>>>>>>> Sent: January 25, 2017 5:39 PM >>>>>>>> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' >>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg >> referred to >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And here's a Guardian story https://www.theguardian.com/ >>>>>> us-news/2016/nov/23/donald-trump-cambridge-analytica-steve-bannon for >>>>>> those interested in the post-election ties among the Mercers (father >> and >>>>>> daughter), Bannon, Conway, and Cambridge Analytica. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >>>>>> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Peg Griffin >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2017 7:43 PM >>>>>>>> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' >>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg >> referred to >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hee hee hee, Mike Cole, you rogue! This is the official Cambridge >>>>>> Analytica site https://cambridgeanalytica.org/ But Mike direct you >> to a >>>>>> meatier sit about it! >>>>>>>> Peg >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >>>>>> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2017 1:41 PM >>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred to >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://antidotezine.com/2017/01/22/trump-knows-you/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> From yrjo.engestrom@helsinki.fi Wed Feb 15 10:41:24 2017 From: yrjo.engestrom@helsinki.fi (=?Windows-1252?Q?Engestr=F6m=2C_Yrj=F6_H_M?=) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 18:41:24 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] A Finnish response to Mr. Trump In-Reply-To: References: <003601d2776d$2cc0a910$8641fb30$@att.net> <003a01d27774$a0aeaf00$e20c0d00$@att.net> <588a1d8b.c280630a.7710d.bdd6@mx.google.com> <002401d277f4$d8da5ac0$8a8f1040$@att.net> <588a317a.1121620a.8e1ba.d866@mx.google.com> <71E849D1-5353-4DDA-BA83-F1DF29820355@gmail.com> <88AB2869-5898-4F23-BB2E-6CCD490C96F7@umn.edu> <1486190026596.25381@iped.uio.no> <563DC5C2-5A29-4F62-9444-8D6B1D275857@umn.edu> <034D32A2-D0A6-455E-8580-FAFE881A108A@gmail.com> <9432F663-5CCE-4D35-9FAB-2235D83A5044@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0DFCDD9B-5256-4502-917B-E3AEA71F443C@helsinki.fi> Here is a link to a Finnish reaction to Mr. Trump?s presidency. https://www.facebook.com/noinviikonuutiset/videos/1315514705176937/ Cheers, Yrj? Engestr?m From Anne-Nelly.Perret-Clermont@unine.ch Wed Feb 15 11:17:17 2017 From: Anne-Nelly.Perret-Clermont@unine.ch (PERRET-CLERMONT Anne-Nelly) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 19:17:17 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: A Finnish response to Mr. Trump In-Reply-To: <0DFCDD9B-5256-4502-917B-E3AEA71F443C@helsinki.fi> References: <003601d2776d$2cc0a910$8641fb30$@att.net> <003a01d27774$a0aeaf00$e20c0d00$@att.net> <588a1d8b.c280630a.7710d.bdd6@mx.google.com> <002401d277f4$d8da5ac0$8a8f1040$@att.net> <588a317a.1121620a.8e1ba.d866@mx.google.com> <71E849D1-5353-4DDA-BA83-F1DF29820355@gmail.com> <88AB2869-5898-4F23-BB2E-6CCD490C96F7@umn.edu> <1486190026596.25381@iped.uio.no> <563DC5C2-5A29-4F62-9444-8D6B1D275857@umn.edu> <034D32A2-D0A6-455E-8580-FAFE881A108A@gmail.com> <9432F663-5CCE-4D35-9FAB-2235D83A5044@gmail.com> , <0DFCDD9B-5256-4502-917B-E3AEA71F443C@helsinki.fi> Message-ID: <1CA09807-88FA-4F2E-AE57-83A481B83723@unine.ch> Thank you Yrj?! Here you can find the Swiss response to Mr. Trump: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reuJ8yVCgSM&sns=em Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont Le 15 f?vr. 2017 ? 19:42, Engestr?m, Yrj? H M > a ?crit : Here is a link to a Finnish reaction to Mr. Trump's presidency. https://www.facebook.com/noinviikonuutiset/videos/1315514705176937/ Cheers, Yrj? Engestr?m From schuckcschuck@gmail.com Wed Feb 15 11:29:26 2017 From: schuckcschuck@gmail.com (Christopher Schuck) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 14:29:26 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Gunilla's 1996 paper In-Reply-To: <589b857a.5156620a.5bbf5.bae1@mx.google.com> References: <1486484311120.76271@iped.uio.no> <1486485450404.30884@iped.uio.no> <4D6F5A74-ABFD-4FAD-989A-65F0A22AA065@osu.edu> <589b857a.5156620a.5bbf5.bae1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: I am wondering also if another way to phrase an alternative understanding to that of Leontiev's is the image of moving toward, moving in a certain direction*,* as opposed to directly modeling or emulating. That is, that the child is experimenting with being *more *of an adult (a "head taller"), without necessarily trying to *be *an adult or any particular adult. This would suggest a more open-ended process of imagination, in which the possibilities for the kind of adulthood and kind of world the child will inhabit remain fully underdetermined. Does anyone else see this as a possible implication of Lindqvist's reading? Chris On Wed, Feb 8, 2017 at 3:53 PM, wrote: > Beth, > This most recent article fleshes out and makes distinct Gunilla?s > contribution to re-interpreting Vygotsky and moving away from Leontiev who > believes children are modelling themselves on adults. i will quote a > paragraph from page 930 of your and Monica?s article that should give pause > as we move around and through this topic of playworlds : > > Of central importance to Lindqvist?s (1995, p. 50) theory of play is her > positioning of herself in opposition to Leontiev, whom she characterizes as > believing that adult roles are what children plat at, as believing that > children?s ?play faces the future? because children in play are MODELING > themselves on adults. She explains that Leontiev thinks of play as > REPRODUCTION of roles in an adult world, not as PRODUCTIVE. Here Lindqvist > is arguing that children are, often, modeling themselves on adults in play, > but that play faces a future that will be created, in part, by those who > are now children, and that will be created within some constraints that > those who are now adults cannot even imagine. > Lindqvist?s contribution to play theory derives in part from her ability > to interpret Vygotsky?s work from outside the cultural, historical, and > political context in which it was created. > > > I offer this paragraph because when I read the above quote in which the > semantic ?()? challenges what in particular children are modelling (i.e. > adults) this leaves open the centrality of the modelling process itself as > the focus and not being *an adult*. > > When Gunilla introduces *fear* figuratively AS the person under the bed, a > modelling process is presented in a shared world but that modelling is > not focusing on being *an adult*. > Now the modelling process can be *an adult* or the modelling process can > be *fear*. > > Each are particular instances of this modelling process. The modelling > becomes the central focus. If we treat ?adult? as real and ?fear? as > pretend and draw a RIGID boundary ?marker? between modelling (an adult) and > modelling (fear) as two opposite phenomena, we seem to loose the actual > phenomena of modelling and its centrality. > > When *fear* is actualized as a person and *an adult* is actualized as a > person, children can model either within a dramatic ?()?. > > This phenomena has many sides in the way Merleau Ponty images ?sides? or > aspects. For example if we face the forward or side of something we > imagine the back ?side? and move to verify this in space. It seems *fear* > and *an adult* as somethings offer faces in the cloud that are examples of > modelling phenomena. This no longer privileges *an adult* as more central > than *fear* as phenomena modelled. > Or so it seems? > > > > Sent from my Windows 10 phone > > From: Beth Ferholt > Sent: February 8, 2017 8:48 AM > To: laure.kloetzer@gmail.com; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Gunilla's 1996 paper > > Let Monica and I know if there are others you are looking for, Laura, and > maybe this is helpful? She wrote several things that should be read more > than they are! Or more should be translated... Beth > > On Tue, Feb 7, 2017 at 1:56 PM, Laure Kloetzer > wrote: > > > Dear Brian, > > > > Thank you so much for sharing ! Very interesting for me indeed. > > > > I decided to work on play with my students this semester as it is a > > wonderful and engaging entry into a lot of fascinating dimensions of > > learning & culture. I also plan to make them work on classical works by > > Piaget and Vygotsky, and help them test the hypotheses of these authors > on > > real observations of play. > > > > Best, > > LK > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2017-02-07 19:05 GMT+01:00 Edmiston, Brian W. : > > > > > Thanks so much, Alfredo > > > > > > Laure, you might be interested in this chapter of mine in which I build > > on > > > Lindqvist?s work > > > It's coming out in the new Routledge Handbook of Early Childhood Play > > > (I know Beth has a chapter in there too) > > > > > > Brian Edmiston > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 7 Feb 2017, at 11:37 am, Alfredo Jornet Gil > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I see. Here is the article! I think this time is right. > > > > > > > > Alfredo > > > > ________________________________________ > > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu edu > > > > > > on behalf of Alfredo Jornet Gil > > > > Sent: 07 February 2017 17:18 > > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity; laure.kloetzer@gmail.com > > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Gunilla's 1996 paper > > > > > > > > Hi Laure, > > > > > > > > I find this online. not the best copy, but one available. See if you > > can > > > download it (it's 3MB big, can make it smaller and share if you could > not > > > download) > > > > http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED396824.pdf > > > > Hope it helps, > > > > Alfredo > > > > ________________________________________ > > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu edu > > > > > > on behalf of Laure Kloetzer > > > > Sent: 07 February 2017 17:01 > > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Gunilla's 1996 paper > > > > > > > > Dear colleagues, > > > > > > > > After a desperate search for Gunilla's classical paper in my Swiss > > > > libraries, I am asking the community for some help. Would one of you > > > have a > > > > pdf copy of: > > > > > > > > Lindqvist, G. (1996). The aesthetics of play. A didactic study of > play > > > and > > > > culture in preschools. *Early Years*, *17*(1), 6-11. > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot for your help ! > > > > Best regards > > > > LK > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Beth Ferholt > Assistant Professor > Department of Early Childhood and Art Education > Brooklyn College, City University of New York > 2900 Bedford Avenue > Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 > > Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu > Phone: (718) 951-5205 > Fax: (718) 951-4816 > > From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Wed Feb 15 11:45:22 2017 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 19:45:22 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: actions within academia + identity and activity. In-Reply-To: References: <003601d2776d$2cc0a910$8641fb30$@att.net> <003a01d27774$a0aeaf00$e20c0d00$@att.net> <588a1d8b.c280630a.7710d.bdd6@mx.google.com> <002401d277f4$d8da5ac0$8a8f1040$@att.net> <588a317a.1121620a.8e1ba.d866@mx.google.com> <71E849D1-5353-4DDA-BA83-F1DF29820355@gmail.com> <88AB2869-5898-4F23-BB2E-6CCD490C96F7@umn.edu> <1486190026596.25381@iped.uio.no> <563DC5C2-5A29-4F62-9444-8D6B1D275857@umn.edu> <034D32A2-D0A6-455E-8580-FAFE881A108A@gmail.com> <9432F663-5CCE-4D35-9FAB-2235D83A5044@gmail.com>, , Message-ID: <1487187920744.19988@iped.uio.no> I am loving this thread, thanks so much for the resources, Theresa and Richard; and thanks Wendy and Helena for sharing so relevant experiences and reflections. I am particularly interested in what Wendy begun noting as a 'lack of resistance,' and Helena's connection with the other thread on identity and activity. As I see it, there here not a fundamental question of whether, in principle, identity or activity go first. It think the proper question is rather *what kind of situations *thinking of* identity and activity in such or such terms allow us to bring about and indeed become different persons and generate different practices (which I think is partly what Laure was suggesting in her first response to Andy). There is a difference between 'being' and 'conscious being.' Thus, during most part of your everyday life, you do not question who you are, you just are; you are whatever part of the larger whole you are part of. Let's say, a junior scholar (postdoc) soon having to apply for fix positions in a faculty's staff meeting. I think here, while business as usual is the norm, identity is not an issue. There is no point in wondering who you are, or whether who yo are being is cause or effect of activity. You are who you are, and everyone in the room knows without having to think about it. But it is in the moment when WHO you are becomes an issue in the room (perhaps because you have spoken in unanticipated ways, or perhaps because you have been neglected to speak out; definitely speaking has something central to do here) that we may have conscious being: it is then that the possibility for changing activity and changing identity emerges. But this, again, is a possibility (and a responsibility) of the collective, of the room. Because once who you are is at stake, there must be *collective work* to address the question. And I think it is then when the question on the relation between identity and activity becomes important. Alfredo ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Helena Worthen Sent: 15 February 2017 19:23 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: actions within academia Thanks, Wendy. Re, "the lack of resistance". Here's a moment when identity might precede activity. If I say, "I am X kind of person, therefore I will speak up now and make a problem for the implementation of this policy," that's identity preceding activity, right? But in that moment one also weighs the likelihood of performing career suicide -- unless there are enough of X kinds of people to make it a collective activity. This is a loop, not a fork. H Helena Worthen helenaworthen@gmail.com Vietnam blog: helenaworthen.wordpress.com On Feb 15, 2017, at 4:19 AM, Wendy Maples wrote: > Yes, thank you Helena. This is quite right. The university where I am currently working has recently successfully implemented zero hours contracts for part-time tutors, with hardly a murmur from full-time staff, who have themselves been divided into 'research' and 'teaching-only' faculty (needless to say most of the boards agreeing these decisions are made up of the professoriat). While the rationale for this is completely understandable and (in this particular case) not necessarily deleterious, there is a wider issue of the culture that enables this. The implementation of capitalist-managerial caste-based systems appears to be accelerating. I'm not saying the old academic tenure system was without its flaws (I'm a female academic after all), but the acceleration of these new systems and the lack of resistance to them is worrying. > > BTW, just heard a key note by Martin Weller ('the open researcher') who is himself now a bit more concerned about some of the risks of being open, and was arguing that individual academics need to know they have the support of their institutions. I worry that, increasingly, they/we don't/won't. > > Wendy > > > ________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Andrew Babson > Sent: 15 February 2017 11:13 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: actions within academia > > I cannot recommend Helena's email highly enough. The casualization of the > academic workforce is not some kind of natural disaster. It's been > engineered as a neoliberal two-fer: academia becomes a "business", and > faculty become divided and weak. Joining a faculty union is the best first > response to this. The radicalized GOP has tenure and faculty power in their > crosshairs. Without institutional power, we can't teach well or do our best > research. Faculty who choose to ignore any of this are part of the problem. > > On Sat, Feb 4, 2017 at 8:10 PM, Helena Worthen > wrote: > >> Actions within academia? Following the advice of thinking globally, acting >> locally, don?t forget the third kind of action within academia: paying >> attention to the faculty workforce itself, which is has been deteriorating >> into a gig economy for the last 30 plus years. If there is organizing going >> on among adjuncts on your campus, seek it out and support it; if there is a >> campus coalition of university-wide unions (which will mean secretaries, >> techies, landscapers, food workers, transportation and custodial workers as >> well as faculty of all levels), attend meetings and be supportive; in >> faculty meetings, insist on adjuncts/lecturers be treated equally. If a new >> kind of program gets floated (for example, an online degree) ask, ?Who is >> doing this work? What are their working conditions?? >> >> It?s amazing what a strong workforce-wide coalition can do to slow down >> the construction of luxury rec facilities and the closure of language or >> ethnic studies programs. >> >> Third kind meaning in addition to doing research or designing curriculum >> that has progressive content or protecting structures of opportunity that >> reduce inequality. >> >> H >> >> Helena Worthen >> helenaworthen@gmail.com >> Berkeley, CA 94707 >> Blog about US and Viet Nam: helenaworthen.wordpress.com >> >> >> >>> On Feb 4, 2017, at 4:35 PM, HENRY SHONERD wrote: >>> >>> Richard, >>> Many thanks for this. What great resources! Medaiting artefacts. They >> come at a good time for my wife and me as far as what needs to be done in >> the larger social domain. Distributed agency at different scales. Within >> each circle we need trust and respect of one another. That really resonates >> all through. I like the metaphor of electro-magnetic field. It was in the >> title of my letter honoring Vera in the book Bob Lake and Cathrene Connery >> edited. (Shout out to Bob and Cathrene!) Part of Vera?s magic circle we >> are. So the circles are across generations. (Shout out to Vera!) Such cool >> people on the chat. But warm blooded. (Shout out to Andy!) >>> Henry >>> >>>> On Feb 4, 2017, at 2:46 PM, Richard Beach wrote: >>>> >>>> Mike, regarding your call for action on campuses, my concern is that >> people may accept a passive stance as individuals assuming that they lack >> agency to make change as opposed to achieving distributed agency (Enfield, >> 2013) through exposure to examples of collective activism so that they >> achieve agency through co-action with others. Students and researchers >> could examine examples of current organized efforts from a CHAT perspective >> in terms of use of certain tools and norms to achieve certain >> objects/outcomes, for example: >>>> >>>> - Our Revolution national organization website < >> https://ourrevolution.com/> > Our Revolution - Our Revolution > ourrevolution.com > The next step for Bernie Sanders' movement is a new group called Our Revolution, which will fight to transform America and advance the progressive agenda that we ... > > > >>>> >>>> - Indivisible: A Practical Guide for Resisting the Trump Agenda < >> https://www.indivisibleguide.com/web/>: Former congressional staffers >> reveal best practices for making Congress listen >>>> >>>> - Courage Campaign : A California-based > Courage Campaign > couragecampaign.org > Join the fights for a more progressive California and country. We are an online community of activists powered by more than 1,000,000 members. > > > >> organization of 1.3 million members promoting progressive agendas >>>> >>>> - Swing Left : Targets swing districts to > [https://swingleft.org/dist/imgs/logo.png] > > Swing Left | Take Back the House > swingleft.org > Control of the House in 2018 will be decided in a handful of Swing Districts. We can stop the Trump agenda by joining together NOW, wherever we live. > > > >> promote candidates for the 2018 election. >>>> Consistent with a CHAT perspective, to avoid students framing the >> political space in individualist terms?as Trump does in his attacks on >> critics, it?s also useful for students and researchers to examine issues in >> terms of competing systems associated with institutional forces and change. >> For example, in addressing climate change, students and researchers can >> examine the intersections between ecological, economic, agriculture, legal, >> political, urban design/housing, transportation, schooling, health care, >> military, media, and scientific research as systems related to climate >> change. For example, the agribusiness agricultural system of monocrop/beef >> production is a major contributor to CO2 emissions related to climate >> change. Students can also examine examples of legal and political efforts >> as systems associated with addressing climate change issues < >> http://climatechangeela.pbworks.com/w/page/103010995/ >> Chapter%209%20%C2%A0Links>, for example, a group of students in Orego >> n > federal-lawsuit/index.html> who have a lawsuit in federal courts suing >> the U. S. Government for failing to address climate change. >>>> >>>> >>>> Richard Beach, Professor Emeritus of English Education, University of >> Minnesota >>>> rbeach@umn.edu >>>> Websites: Digital writing , Media >> literacy , Teaching literature >> , Identity-focused ELA Teaching < >> http://identities.pbworks.com/>, Common Core State Standards < >> http://englishccss.pbworks.com/>, Apps for literacy learning < >> http://usingipads.pbworks.com/>, Teaching about climate change < >> http://climatechangeela.pbworks.com/> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Feb 4, 2017, at 11:55 AM, mike cole wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Richard and Alfredo >>>>> >>>>> I keep coming back to the question of how we, as academics, located in >> the >>>>> system of higher education, researchers on the social creation of >> social >>>>> inequality, ought to be re-orienting our research in light of the >>>>> re-surrection of global nationalist/populism. >>>>> >>>>> So for me, its important to focus on concrete exemplars that might >> unloose >>>>> this potential: "shock events' possibility not only for separating but >> for >>>>> actually offering opportunities to re-organize and unite priorly >> separated >>>>> forces." >>>>> >>>>> In a recent discussion at LCHC, this topic came up in terms of how to >>>>> connect our research and our undergraduates to the life of the >> communities >>>>> whose children do not make it to the university. Such an effort >> requires >>>>> coordination of a variety of dis-articulated groups with a common >> concern >>>>> about socially and culturally marginalized, econonomically stressed, >>>>> communities. >>>>> >>>>> The challenge of engaging successfully in such work and satisfying the >>>>> academic production requirements of their academic personnel committees >>>>> seems a major challenge. >>>>> >>>>> Positive suggestions of how to meet this challenge would be warmly >> accepted. >>>>> >>>>> mike >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 10:33 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < >> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for sharing Richard, I had seen Richardson's analysis online. >> In >>>>>> fact the amount of analyses in the media that this crisis is >> generating is >>>>>> overwhelming, but also very encouraging and gives hopes towards >>>>>> Richardson's notes on shock events' possibility not only for >> separating but >>>>>> for actually offering opportunities to re-organize and unite priorly >>>>>> separated forces. I wonder, if Lincoln managed without the web and the >>>>>> i-phone, will it happen today? >>>>>> >>>>>> Alfredo >>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > edu> >>>>>> on behalf of Richard Beach >>>>>> Sent: 03 February 2017 00:28 >>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Bannon's actions as "shock event" >>>>>> >>>>>> Here?s an interesting analysis of Bannon?s actions on banning >> immigrants >>>>>> that?s related to Bakhtin?s notion of ?eventness? and Roth?s (2014) >>>>>> analysis of ?events-in-the-making? associated with the experience of >>>>>> unfolding events with unpredictable consequences. We still don?t know >> what >>>>>> the fallout will be from attempts to implement this ban. >>>>>> >>>>>>> From Heather Richardson, professor of History at Boston College: >>>>>> >>>>>> "I don't like to talk about politics on Facebook-- political history >> is my >>>>>> job, after all, and you are my friends-- but there is an important >>>>>> non-partisan point to make today. >>>>>> >>>>>> What Bannon is doing, most dramatically with last night's ban on >>>>>> immigration from seven predominantly Muslim countries-- is creating >> what is >>>>>> known as a "shock event." >>>>>> >>>>>> Such an event is unexpected and confusing and throws a society into >> chaos. >>>>>> People scramble to react to the event, usually along some fault line >> that >>>>>> those responsible for the event can widen by claiming that they alone >> know >>>>>> how to restore order. >>>>>> >>>>>> When opponents speak out, the authors of the shock event call them >>>>>> enemies. As society reels and tempers run high, those responsible for >> the >>>>>> shock event perform a sleight of hand to achieve their real goal, a >> goal >>>>>> they know to be hugely unpopular, but from which everyone has been >>>>>> distracted as they fight over the initial event. There is no longer >>>>>> concerted opposition to the real goal; opposition divides along the >>>>>> partisan lines established by the shock event. >>>>>> >>>>>> Last night's Executive Order has all the hallmarks of a shock event. >> It >>>>>> was not reviewed by any governmental agencies or lawyers before it was >>>>>> released, and counterterrorism experts insist they did not ask for it. >>>>>> People charged with enforcing it got no instructions about how to do >> so. >>>>>> Courts immediately have declared parts of it unconstitutional, but >> border >>>>>> police in some airports are refusing to stop enforcing it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Predictably, chaos has followed and tempers are hot. >>>>>> >>>>>> My point today is this: unless you are the person setting it up, it >> is in >>>>>> no one's interest to play the shock event game. It is designed >> explicitly >>>>>> to divide people who might otherwise come together so they cannot >> stand >>>>>> against something its authors think they won't like. >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't know what Bannon is up to-- although I have some guesses-- but >>>>>> because I know Bannon's ideas well, I am positive that there is not a >>>>>> single person whom I consider a friend on either side of the aisle-- >> and my >>>>>> friends range pretty widely-- who will benefit from whatever it is. >>>>>> >>>>>> If the shock event strategy works, though, many of you will blame each >>>>>> other, rather than Bannon, for the fallout. And the country will have >> been >>>>>> tricked into accepting their real goal. >>>>>> >>>>>> But because shock events destabilize a society, they can also be used >>>>>> positively. We do not have to respond along old fault lines. We could >> just >>>>>> as easily reorganize into a different pattern that threatens the >> people who >>>>>> sparked the event. >>>>>> >>>>>> A successful shock event depends on speed and chaos because it >> requires >>>>>> knee-jerk reactions so that people divide along established lines. >> This, >>>>>> for example, is how Confederate leaders railroaded the initial >> southern >>>>>> states out of the Union. >>>>>> >>>>>> If people realize they are being played, though, they can reach >> across old >>>>>> lines and reorganize to challenge the leaders who are pulling the >> strings. >>>>>> This was Lincoln's strategy when he joined together Whigs, Democrats, >>>>>> Free-Soilers, anti-Nebraska voters, and nativists into the new >> Republican >>>>>> Party to stand against the Slave Power. >>>>>> >>>>>> Five years before, such a coalition would have been unimaginable. >> Members >>>>>> of those groups agreed on very little other than that they wanted all >>>>>> Americans to have equal economic opportunity. Once they began to work >>>>>> together to promote a fair economic system, though, they found much >> common >>>>>> ground. They ended up rededicating the nation to a "government of the >>>>>> people, by the people, and for the people." >>>>>> >>>>>> Confederate leaders and Lincoln both knew about the political >> potential of >>>>>> a shock event. As we are in the midst of one, it seems worth noting >> that >>>>>> Lincoln seemed to have the better idea about how to use it." >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Richard Beach, Professor Emeritus of English Education, University of >>>>>> Minnesota >>>>>> rbeach@umn.edu >>>>>> Websites: Digital writing , Media >>>>>> literacy , Teaching >> literature >>>>>> , Identity-focused ELA >> Teaching < >>>>>> http://identities.pbworks.com/>, Common Core State Standards < >>>>>> http://englishccss.pbworks.com/>, Apps for literacy learning < >>>>>> http://usingipads.pbworks.com/>, Teaching about climate change < >>>>>> http://climatechangeela.pbworks.com/> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Jan 26, 2017, at 10:16 AM, Helena Worthen < >> helenaworthen@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On the subject of dividing, here is an ugly snapshot of the wedge >>>>>> getting driven in ? the building trades unions finding common ground >> with >>>>>> Trump as a ?developer.? The other deeply regressive unions are the >> prison >>>>>> guards and police. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2017/01/building-trades-allow- >>>>>> themselves-to-be-played-like-fools >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I attend monthly discussion groups in the Bay Area organized around >>>>>> readings from the magazine Jacobin. I like these because the other >>>>>> participants are mostly 20s and early 30s, techies or grad students. >> Very >>>>>> smart, very alert, very well-read and articulate. They are stamped, >>>>>> however, with evidence of never having studied history. (Philosophy, >> yes ? >>>>>> which is interesting.) To many of them, the building trades and police >>>>>> unions are typical of the political position of labor unions. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So they see LIUNA leaders meeting with Trump and smear the whole >> labor >>>>>> movement with it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> H >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Helena Worthen >>>>>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com >>>>>>> Berkeley, CA 94707 >>>>>>> Blog about US and Viet Nam: helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Jan 26, 2017, at 9:26 AM, < >>>>>> lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes, >>>>>>>> Today, the strategy of dividing, leaving us in disarray, is how i >>>>>> experience the deluge of draconian executive ?orders? that leaves me >>>>>> spinning. >>>>>>>> Leaves me questioning where to start. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Exposing the disarray on the other side in concrete ways (Koch vs >>>>>> Mercer) is a valuable addition to our ways of responding. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my Windows 10 phone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From: Peg Griffin >>>>>>>> Sent: January 26, 2017 8:57 AM >>>>>>>> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' >>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg >> referred to >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> At this point, Larry, I'm content to rise to as much concrete as I >> can >>>>>> get near, until at least the late spring, to get at ideas and >>>>>> contradictions, to keep moving and supporting so I'm in enough places >> to >>>>>> and bits of the movement to find the productive places for me. >>>>>>>> A mini-mission of mine right now is to get people to recognize the >>>>>> divide among the big money folks in the US -- the Mercer father >> daughter >>>>>> beat the Koch brothers within the Republican moneyed. >>>>>>>> The other side works hard to divide us and take advantage of the >>>>>> disarray, so why not pay attention when they are dividing themselves! >>>>>>>> No use being a day late and a dollar short about who's who! >>>>>>>> Maybe it's just that my great uncle was in vaudeville and showed us >>>>>> three yammering nieces a super card game called "52 pick-up." It's >> not too >>>>>> good too often for too long but everyone once in a while it's not a >> bad >>>>>> game. >>>>>>>> PG >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >>>>>> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of lpscholar2@gmail.com >>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 11:02 AM >>>>>>>> To: Peg Griffin; 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' >>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg >> referred to >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Peg, Mike, >>>>>>>> Reading these two articles on BigData and remembering how funding >> will >>>>>> be given to academic research that slots into being verified (or >> negated) >>>>>> through BigData is profoundly disturbing and leaves me with a sense of >>>>>> inertia at the scope of the alienation involved in this manipulation. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Using Simmel?s back and forth notion of the relation of (distance >> and >>>>>> intimacy) and finding the proper ratio depending on the events >> occuring >>>>>> then the proper relation between distance and intimacy will be >> shifting in >>>>>> scope in each historical era. >>>>>>>> Will our response to the vast distance incarnated through BIgData >>>>>> require intimate responses as counterpoint?? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If this is LIKE the 1930?s, do we have any answers from the past >> that >>>>>> give glimmers of a way forward that can be responsive at scale to the >>>>>> distancing of BigData? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my Windows 10 phone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From: Peg Griffin >>>>>>>> Sent: January 25, 2017 5:39 PM >>>>>>>> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' >>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg >> referred to >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And here's a Guardian story https://www.theguardian.com/ >>>>>> us-news/2016/nov/23/donald-trump-cambridge-analytica-steve-bannon for >>>>>> those interested in the post-election ties among the Mercers (father >> and >>>>>> daughter), Bannon, Conway, and Cambridge Analytica. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >>>>>> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Peg Griffin >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2017 7:43 PM >>>>>>>> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' >>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg >> referred to >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hee hee hee, Mike Cole, you rogue! This is the official Cambridge >>>>>> Analytica site https://cambridgeanalytica.org/ But Mike direct you >> to a >>>>>> meatier sit about it! >>>>>>>> Peg >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >>>>>> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2017 1:41 PM >>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred to >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://antidotezine.com/2017/01/22/trump-knows-you/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> From smago@uga.edu Wed Feb 15 11:57:30 2017 From: smago@uga.edu (Peter Smagorinsky) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 19:57:30 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] FW: [LLC-list] ESL Director/Lecturer Position at the University of Massachusetts Amherst In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Begin forwarded message: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Margaret Allard > Date: Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 8:47 AM Subject: ESL Director/Lecturer Position at the University of Massachusetts Amherst To: sonia.nieto.1@gmail.com Dear Professor Nieto, I hope that this email finds you well. As you may know, Ingrid Holm, Director of the ESL Program at the University of Massachusetts Amherst, is retiring in May 2017. For over thirty years, Professor Holm has taught international graduate and undergraduate students with her vast understanding of academic writing and Research English within the English for Academic Purposes discipline. The ESL Director/Lecturer Search Committee has asked me to help expand the search to increase the pool of qualified applicants. The Human Resources link at UMA is https://umass.interviewexchange.com/jobofferdetails.jsp?JOBID=79267 Thank you for your efforts in sending this message to potential candidates. Any related questions may be directed to the chair of the search committee, Luiz Amaral in Spanish/Portuguese of Languages, Literatures, and Cultures in the College of Humanities and Fine Arts at amaral@umass.edu. Best wishes, Margaret Allard, Senior Lecturer ESL Program 308A Bartlett Hall From mcole@ucsd.edu Wed Feb 15 12:11:43 2017 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 12:11:43 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: [COGDEVSOC] Visiting Assistant Professor Position at Binghamton University In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Erin A Jant Date: Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 11:55 AM Subject: [COGDEVSOC] Visiting Assistant Professor Position at Binghamton University To: cogdevsoc@lists.cogdevsoc.org Visiting Assistant Professor (Non-Tenure-Track) of Psychology The Department of Psychology at *Binghamton University (SUNY) *invites applications for a Visiting Assistant Professor position (nontenure-track, one-year) in psychology. The position will start Fall 2017 with an initial appointment of one year that might be extended for additional terms. We are seeking a dynamic, innovative teacher with a commitment to high-quality, rigorous undergraduate education (with a potential for graduate teaching as well). The area of specialization is open; however, we are particularly interested in individuals who may bring expertise in social, industrial/organizational, multicultural issues, or developmental. The successful candidate will teach three courses per semester. There will be additional opportunities to participate in curriculum development and program assessment. There are likely to be opportunities for summer and inter-session teaching for extra pay as well. The Psychology Department consists of 35 faculty members in three doctoral programs: Behavioral Neuroscience, Clinical Science, and Cognitive and Brain Sciences. The department is family-friendly and there is a preschool on campus. Additional information about the department is available at http://www2.binghamton.edu/psychology. Binghamton University, which is part of the State University of New York, enrolls approximately 17,200 undergraduate and graduate students, including more than 5,000 students of color and 1,500 international students from 100 countries. The campus is located on 887 acres (including a 350 acre nature preserve) above the Susquehanna River and received the highest ?green? rating in the Princeton Review?s ranking of colleges by environmental sustainability. Greater Binghamton is a metropolitan area of about 250,000 with an affordable cost of living and excellent schools. There are many outdoor and cultural activities demonstrating a unique blend of urban and rural appeal. The employment base of the region is dominated by electronics and health care. The Department of Psychology is dedicated to the goal of building a diverse and inclusive teaching, research, and working environment. Potential applicants who share this goal, especially underrepresented minorities, women and persons with disabilities, are strongly encouraged to apply. Binghamton University is an Equal Opportunity/Affirmative Action Employer. Completed applications received by 31 March 2017 will receive full consideration. Applications arriving after this date will be reviewed as needed until the position is filled. To apply, please submit a curriculum vita; a cover letter describing experience and interest in the position; and a teaching portfolio that includes a statement of teaching philosophy and pedagogical approach, sample syllabus, evidence of teaching effectiveness (e.g. awards, evaluations) and any other relevant information. Please also arrange for three confidential letters of recommendation from individuals familiar with your teaching performance. All documents should be submitted to: https://binghamton. interviewexchange.com. -- Erin Jant, Ph.D. Visiting Assistant Professor Department of Psychology Binghamton University *Office: *Old Johnson, Room 232 *Phone*: 607-777-5466 _______________________________________________ To post to the CDS listserv, send your message to: cogdevsoc@lists.cogdevsoc.org (If you belong to the listserv and have not included any large attachments, your message will be posted without moderation--so be careful!) To subscribe or unsubscribe from the listserv, visit: http://lists.cogdevsoc.org/listinfo.cgi/cogdevsoc-cogdevsoc.org From helen.grimmett@monash.edu Wed Feb 15 16:52:47 2017 From: helen.grimmett@monash.edu (Helen Grimmett) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 11:52:47 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Gunilla's 1996 paper In-Reply-To: References: <1486484311120.76271@iped.uio.no> <1486485450404.30884@iped.uio.no> <4D6F5A74-ABFD-4FAD-989A-65F0A22AA065@osu.edu> <589b857a.5156620a.5bbf5.bae1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Awesome resources on this thread! Thanks so much for sharing Alfredo, Brian, Beth and Leif. These are such beautiful examples of adults participating with children in play to create developmental opportunities for all. They really highlight the possibilities of what can happen when teachers are willing to take up this particular position of 'co-participant' rather than just 'observer' or 'pedagogical director'. Thanks, Helen -- *Dr HELEN GRIMMETT * Lecturer in Primary and Early Years Education *Education* Monash University Room 159, Building 902, Berwick Campus or Room A3.10, Peninsula Campus T: +61 3 9904 7171 E: helen.grimmett@monash.edu monash.edu *Recent work:* Helen Grimmett (2016): The Problem of ?Just Tell Us?: Insights from Playing with Poetic Inquiry and Dialogical Self Theory, *Studying Teacher Education*, DOI: 10.1080/17425964.2016.1143810 http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17425964.2016.1143810 Helen Grimmett (2014), The Practice of Teachers' Professional Development: A Cultural-Historical Approach , Rotterdam: Sense Publishers On 16 February 2017 at 06:29, Christopher Schuck wrote: > I am wondering also if another way to phrase an alternative understanding > to that of Leontiev's is the image of moving toward, moving in a certain > direction*,* as opposed to directly modeling or emulating. That is, that > the child is experimenting with being *more *of an adult (a "head taller"), > without necessarily trying to *be *an adult or any particular adult. This > would suggest a more open-ended process of imagination, in which the > possibilities for the kind of adulthood and kind of world the child will > inhabit remain fully underdetermined. > > Does anyone else see this as a possible implication of Lindqvist's reading? > > Chris > > On Wed, Feb 8, 2017 at 3:53 PM, wrote: > > > Beth, > > This most recent article fleshes out and makes distinct Gunilla?s > > contribution to re-interpreting Vygotsky and moving away from Leontiev > who > > believes children are modelling themselves on adults. i will quote a > > paragraph from page 930 of your and Monica?s article that should give > pause > > as we move around and through this topic of playworlds : > > > > Of central importance to Lindqvist?s (1995, p. 50) theory of play is her > > positioning of herself in opposition to Leontiev, whom she characterizes > as > > believing that adult roles are what children plat at, as believing that > > children?s ?play faces the future? because children in play are MODELING > > themselves on adults. She explains that Leontiev thinks of play as > > REPRODUCTION of roles in an adult world, not as PRODUCTIVE. Here > Lindqvist > > is arguing that children are, often, modeling themselves on adults in > play, > > but that play faces a future that will be created, in part, by those who > > are now children, and that will be created within some constraints that > > those who are now adults cannot even imagine. > > Lindqvist?s contribution to play theory derives in part from her ability > > to interpret Vygotsky?s work from outside the cultural, historical, and > > political context in which it was created. > > > > > > I offer this paragraph because when I read the above quote in which the > > semantic ?()? challenges what in particular children are modelling (i.e. > > adults) this leaves open the centrality of the modelling process itself > as > > the focus and not being *an adult*. > > > > When Gunilla introduces *fear* figuratively AS the person under the bed, > a > > modelling process is presented in a shared world but that modelling is > > not focusing on being *an adult*. > > Now the modelling process can be *an adult* or the modelling process can > > be *fear*. > > > > Each are particular instances of this modelling process. The modelling > > becomes the central focus. If we treat ?adult? as real and ?fear? as > > pretend and draw a RIGID boundary ?marker? between modelling (an adult) > and > > modelling (fear) as two opposite phenomena, we seem to loose the actual > > phenomena of modelling and its centrality. > > > > When *fear* is actualized as a person and *an adult* is actualized as a > > person, children can model either within a dramatic ?()?. > > > > This phenomena has many sides in the way Merleau Ponty images ?sides? or > > aspects. For example if we face the forward or side of something we > > imagine the back ?side? and move to verify this in space. It seems *fear* > > and *an adult* as somethings offer faces in the cloud that are examples > of > > modelling phenomena. This no longer privileges *an adult* as more central > > than *fear* as phenomena modelled. > > Or so it seems? > > > > > > > > Sent from my Windows 10 phone > > > > From: Beth Ferholt > > Sent: February 8, 2017 8:48 AM > > To: laure.kloetzer@gmail.com; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Gunilla's 1996 paper > > > > Let Monica and I know if there are others you are looking for, Laura, and > > maybe this is helpful? She wrote several things that should be read more > > than they are! Or more should be translated... Beth > > > > On Tue, Feb 7, 2017 at 1:56 PM, Laure Kloetzer > > > wrote: > > > > > Dear Brian, > > > > > > Thank you so much for sharing ! Very interesting for me indeed. > > > > > > I decided to work on play with my students this semester as it is a > > > wonderful and engaging entry into a lot of fascinating dimensions of > > > learning & culture. I also plan to make them work on classical works by > > > Piaget and Vygotsky, and help them test the hypotheses of these authors > > on > > > real observations of play. > > > > > > Best, > > > LK > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2017-02-07 19:05 GMT+01:00 Edmiston, Brian W. : > > > > > > > Thanks so much, Alfredo > > > > > > > > Laure, you might be interested in this chapter of mine in which I > build > > > on > > > > Lindqvist?s work > > > > It's coming out in the new Routledge Handbook of Early Childhood Play > > > > (I know Beth has a chapter in there too) > > > > > > > > Brian Edmiston > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 7 Feb 2017, at 11:37 am, Alfredo Jornet Gil < > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I see. Here is the article! I think this time is right. > > > > > > > > > > Alfredo > > > > > ________________________________________ > > > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > edu > > > > > > > > on behalf of Alfredo Jornet Gil > > > > > Sent: 07 February 2017 17:18 > > > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity; laure.kloetzer@gmail.com > > > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Gunilla's 1996 paper > > > > > > > > > > Hi Laure, > > > > > > > > > > I find this online. not the best copy, but one available. See if > you > > > can > > > > download it (it's 3MB big, can make it smaller and share if you could > > not > > > > download) > > > > > http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED396824.pdf > > > > > Hope it helps, > > > > > Alfredo > > > > > ________________________________________ > > > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > edu > > > > > > > > on behalf of Laure Kloetzer > > > > > Sent: 07 February 2017 17:01 > > > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Gunilla's 1996 paper > > > > > > > > > > Dear colleagues, > > > > > > > > > > After a desperate search for Gunilla's classical paper in my Swiss > > > > > libraries, I am asking the community for some help. Would one of > you > > > > have a > > > > > pdf copy of: > > > > > > > > > > Lindqvist, G. (1996). The aesthetics of play. A didactic study of > > play > > > > and > > > > > culture in preschools. *Early Years*, *17*(1), 6-11. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot for your help ! > > > > > Best regards > > > > > LK > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Beth Ferholt > > Assistant Professor > > Department of Early Childhood and Art Education > > Brooklyn College, City University of New York > > 2900 Bedford Avenue > > Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 > > > > Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu > > Phone: (718) 951-5205 > > Fax: (718) 951-4816 > > > > > From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Thu Feb 16 08:58:21 2017 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 16:58:21 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: actions within academia + identity and activity. In-Reply-To: <1487187920744.19988@iped.uio.no> References: <003601d2776d$2cc0a910$8641fb30$@att.net> <003a01d27774$a0aeaf00$e20c0d00$@att.net> <588a1d8b.c280630a.7710d.bdd6@mx.google.com> <002401d277f4$d8da5ac0$8a8f1040$@att.net> <588a317a.1121620a.8e1ba.d866@mx.google.com> <71E849D1-5353-4DDA-BA83-F1DF29820355@gmail.com> <88AB2869-5898-4F23-BB2E-6CCD490C96F7@umn.edu> <1486190026596.25381@iped.uio.no> <563DC5C2-5A29-4F62-9444-8D6B1D275857@umn.edu> <034D32A2-D0A6-455E-8580-FAFE881A108A@gmail.com> <9432F663-5CCE-4D35-9FAB-2235D83A5044@gmail.com>, , , <1487187920744.19988@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: <1487264299452.7044@iped.uio.no> More about Resistance, this time on people using a quite powerful asset: taxes! https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/15/tax-refusing-pay-protest-trump A ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Alfredo Jornet Gil Sent: 15 February 2017 20:45 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: actions within academia + identity and activity. I am loving this thread, thanks so much for the resources, Theresa and Richard; and thanks Wendy and Helena for sharing so relevant experiences and reflections. I am particularly interested in what Wendy begun noting as a 'lack of resistance,' and Helena's connection with the other thread on identity and activity. As I see it, there here not a fundamental question of whether, in principle, identity or activity go first. It think the proper question is rather *what kind of situations *thinking of* identity and activity in such or such terms allow us to bring about and indeed become different persons and generate different practices (which I think is partly what Laure was suggesting in her first response to Andy). There is a difference between 'being' and 'conscious being.' Thus, during most part of your everyday life, you do not question who you are, you just are; you are whatever part of the larger whole you are part of. Let's say, a junior scholar (postdoc) soon having to apply for fix positions in a faculty's staff meeting. I think here, while business as usual is the norm, identity is not an issue. There is no point in wondering who you are, or whether who yo are being is cause or effect of activity. You are who you are, and everyone in the room knows without having to think about it. But it is in the moment when WHO you are becomes an issue in the room (perhaps because you have spoken in unanticipated ways, or perhaps because you have been neglected to speak out; definitely speaking has something central to do here) that we may have conscious being: it is then that the possibility for changing activity and changing identity emerges. But this, again, is a possibility (and a responsibility) of the collective, of the room. Because once who you are is at stake, there must be *collective work* to address the question. And I think it is then when the question on the relation between identity and activity becomes important. Alfredo ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Helena Worthen Sent: 15 February 2017 19:23 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: actions within academia Thanks, Wendy. Re, "the lack of resistance". Here's a moment when identity might precede activity. If I say, "I am X kind of person, therefore I will speak up now and make a problem for the implementation of this policy," that's identity preceding activity, right? But in that moment one also weighs the likelihood of performing career suicide -- unless there are enough of X kinds of people to make it a collective activity. This is a loop, not a fork. H Helena Worthen helenaworthen@gmail.com Vietnam blog: helenaworthen.wordpress.com On Feb 15, 2017, at 4:19 AM, Wendy Maples wrote: > Yes, thank you Helena. This is quite right. The university where I am currently working has recently successfully implemented zero hours contracts for part-time tutors, with hardly a murmur from full-time staff, who have themselves been divided into 'research' and 'teaching-only' faculty (needless to say most of the boards agreeing these decisions are made up of the professoriat). While the rationale for this is completely understandable and (in this particular case) not necessarily deleterious, there is a wider issue of the culture that enables this. The implementation of capitalist-managerial caste-based systems appears to be accelerating. I'm not saying the old academic tenure system was without its flaws (I'm a female academic after all), but the acceleration of these new systems and the lack of resistance to them is worrying. > > BTW, just heard a key note by Martin Weller ('the open researcher') who is himself now a bit more concerned about some of the risks of being open, and was arguing that individual academics need to know they have the support of their institutions. I worry that, increasingly, they/we don't/won't. > > Wendy > > > ________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Andrew Babson > Sent: 15 February 2017 11:13 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: actions within academia > > I cannot recommend Helena's email highly enough. The casualization of the > academic workforce is not some kind of natural disaster. It's been > engineered as a neoliberal two-fer: academia becomes a "business", and > faculty become divided and weak. Joining a faculty union is the best first > response to this. The radicalized GOP has tenure and faculty power in their > crosshairs. Without institutional power, we can't teach well or do our best > research. Faculty who choose to ignore any of this are part of the problem. > > On Sat, Feb 4, 2017 at 8:10 PM, Helena Worthen > wrote: > >> Actions within academia? Following the advice of thinking globally, acting >> locally, don?t forget the third kind of action within academia: paying >> attention to the faculty workforce itself, which is has been deteriorating >> into a gig economy for the last 30 plus years. If there is organizing going >> on among adjuncts on your campus, seek it out and support it; if there is a >> campus coalition of university-wide unions (which will mean secretaries, >> techies, landscapers, food workers, transportation and custodial workers as >> well as faculty of all levels), attend meetings and be supportive; in >> faculty meetings, insist on adjuncts/lecturers be treated equally. If a new >> kind of program gets floated (for example, an online degree) ask, ?Who is >> doing this work? What are their working conditions?? >> >> It?s amazing what a strong workforce-wide coalition can do to slow down >> the construction of luxury rec facilities and the closure of language or >> ethnic studies programs. >> >> Third kind meaning in addition to doing research or designing curriculum >> that has progressive content or protecting structures of opportunity that >> reduce inequality. >> >> H >> >> Helena Worthen >> helenaworthen@gmail.com >> Berkeley, CA 94707 >> Blog about US and Viet Nam: helenaworthen.wordpress.com >> >> >> >>> On Feb 4, 2017, at 4:35 PM, HENRY SHONERD wrote: >>> >>> Richard, >>> Many thanks for this. What great resources! Medaiting artefacts. They >> come at a good time for my wife and me as far as what needs to be done in >> the larger social domain. Distributed agency at different scales. Within >> each circle we need trust and respect of one another. That really resonates >> all through. I like the metaphor of electro-magnetic field. It was in the >> title of my letter honoring Vera in the book Bob Lake and Cathrene Connery >> edited. (Shout out to Bob and Cathrene!) Part of Vera?s magic circle we >> are. So the circles are across generations. (Shout out to Vera!) Such cool >> people on the chat. But warm blooded. (Shout out to Andy!) >>> Henry >>> >>>> On Feb 4, 2017, at 2:46 PM, Richard Beach wrote: >>>> >>>> Mike, regarding your call for action on campuses, my concern is that >> people may accept a passive stance as individuals assuming that they lack >> agency to make change as opposed to achieving distributed agency (Enfield, >> 2013) through exposure to examples of collective activism so that they >> achieve agency through co-action with others. Students and researchers >> could examine examples of current organized efforts from a CHAT perspective >> in terms of use of certain tools and norms to achieve certain >> objects/outcomes, for example: >>>> >>>> - Our Revolution national organization website < >> https://ourrevolution.com/> > Our Revolution - Our Revolution > ourrevolution.com > The next step for Bernie Sanders' movement is a new group called Our Revolution, which will fight to transform America and advance the progressive agenda that we ... > > > >>>> >>>> - Indivisible: A Practical Guide for Resisting the Trump Agenda < >> https://www.indivisibleguide.com/web/>: Former congressional staffers >> reveal best practices for making Congress listen >>>> >>>> - Courage Campaign : A California-based > Courage Campaign > couragecampaign.org > Join the fights for a more progressive California and country. We are an online community of activists powered by more than 1,000,000 members. > > > >> organization of 1.3 million members promoting progressive agendas >>>> >>>> - Swing Left : Targets swing districts to > [https://swingleft.org/dist/imgs/logo.png] > > Swing Left | Take Back the House > swingleft.org > Control of the House in 2018 will be decided in a handful of Swing Districts. We can stop the Trump agenda by joining together NOW, wherever we live. > > > >> promote candidates for the 2018 election. >>>> Consistent with a CHAT perspective, to avoid students framing the >> political space in individualist terms?as Trump does in his attacks on >> critics, it?s also useful for students and researchers to examine issues in >> terms of competing systems associated with institutional forces and change. >> For example, in addressing climate change, students and researchers can >> examine the intersections between ecological, economic, agriculture, legal, >> political, urban design/housing, transportation, schooling, health care, >> military, media, and scientific research as systems related to climate >> change. For example, the agribusiness agricultural system of monocrop/beef >> production is a major contributor to CO2 emissions related to climate >> change. Students can also examine examples of legal and political efforts >> as systems associated with addressing climate change issues < >> http://climatechangeela.pbworks.com/w/page/103010995/ >> Chapter%209%20%C2%A0Links>, for example, a group of students in Orego >> n > federal-lawsuit/index.html> who have a lawsuit in federal courts suing >> the U. S. Government for failing to address climate change. >>>> >>>> >>>> Richard Beach, Professor Emeritus of English Education, University of >> Minnesota >>>> rbeach@umn.edu >>>> Websites: Digital writing , Media >> literacy , Teaching literature >> , Identity-focused ELA Teaching < >> http://identities.pbworks.com/>, Common Core State Standards < >> http://englishccss.pbworks.com/>, Apps for literacy learning < >> http://usingipads.pbworks.com/>, Teaching about climate change < >> http://climatechangeela.pbworks.com/> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Feb 4, 2017, at 11:55 AM, mike cole wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Richard and Alfredo >>>>> >>>>> I keep coming back to the question of how we, as academics, located in >> the >>>>> system of higher education, researchers on the social creation of >> social >>>>> inequality, ought to be re-orienting our research in light of the >>>>> re-surrection of global nationalist/populism. >>>>> >>>>> So for me, its important to focus on concrete exemplars that might >> unloose >>>>> this potential: "shock events' possibility not only for separating but >> for >>>>> actually offering opportunities to re-organize and unite priorly >> separated >>>>> forces." >>>>> >>>>> In a recent discussion at LCHC, this topic came up in terms of how to >>>>> connect our research and our undergraduates to the life of the >> communities >>>>> whose children do not make it to the university. Such an effort >> requires >>>>> coordination of a variety of dis-articulated groups with a common >> concern >>>>> about socially and culturally marginalized, econonomically stressed, >>>>> communities. >>>>> >>>>> The challenge of engaging successfully in such work and satisfying the >>>>> academic production requirements of their academic personnel committees >>>>> seems a major challenge. >>>>> >>>>> Positive suggestions of how to meet this challenge would be warmly >> accepted. >>>>> >>>>> mike >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 10:33 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < >> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for sharing Richard, I had seen Richardson's analysis online. >> In >>>>>> fact the amount of analyses in the media that this crisis is >> generating is >>>>>> overwhelming, but also very encouraging and gives hopes towards >>>>>> Richardson's notes on shock events' possibility not only for >> separating but >>>>>> for actually offering opportunities to re-organize and unite priorly >>>>>> separated forces. I wonder, if Lincoln managed without the web and the >>>>>> i-phone, will it happen today? >>>>>> >>>>>> Alfredo >>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > edu> >>>>>> on behalf of Richard Beach >>>>>> Sent: 03 February 2017 00:28 >>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Bannon's actions as "shock event" >>>>>> >>>>>> Here?s an interesting analysis of Bannon?s actions on banning >> immigrants >>>>>> that?s related to Bakhtin?s notion of ?eventness? and Roth?s (2014) >>>>>> analysis of ?events-in-the-making? associated with the experience of >>>>>> unfolding events with unpredictable consequences. We still don?t know >> what >>>>>> the fallout will be from attempts to implement this ban. >>>>>> >>>>>>> From Heather Richardson, professor of History at Boston College: >>>>>> >>>>>> "I don't like to talk about politics on Facebook-- political history >> is my >>>>>> job, after all, and you are my friends-- but there is an important >>>>>> non-partisan point to make today. >>>>>> >>>>>> What Bannon is doing, most dramatically with last night's ban on >>>>>> immigration from seven predominantly Muslim countries-- is creating >> what is >>>>>> known as a "shock event." >>>>>> >>>>>> Such an event is unexpected and confusing and throws a society into >> chaos. >>>>>> People scramble to react to the event, usually along some fault line >> that >>>>>> those responsible for the event can widen by claiming that they alone >> know >>>>>> how to restore order. >>>>>> >>>>>> When opponents speak out, the authors of the shock event call them >>>>>> enemies. As society reels and tempers run high, those responsible for >> the >>>>>> shock event perform a sleight of hand to achieve their real goal, a >> goal >>>>>> they know to be hugely unpopular, but from which everyone has been >>>>>> distracted as they fight over the initial event. There is no longer >>>>>> concerted opposition to the real goal; opposition divides along the >>>>>> partisan lines established by the shock event. >>>>>> >>>>>> Last night's Executive Order has all the hallmarks of a shock event. >> It >>>>>> was not reviewed by any governmental agencies or lawyers before it was >>>>>> released, and counterterrorism experts insist they did not ask for it. >>>>>> People charged with enforcing it got no instructions about how to do >> so. >>>>>> Courts immediately have declared parts of it unconstitutional, but >> border >>>>>> police in some airports are refusing to stop enforcing it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Predictably, chaos has followed and tempers are hot. >>>>>> >>>>>> My point today is this: unless you are the person setting it up, it >> is in >>>>>> no one's interest to play the shock event game. It is designed >> explicitly >>>>>> to divide people who might otherwise come together so they cannot >> stand >>>>>> against something its authors think they won't like. >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't know what Bannon is up to-- although I have some guesses-- but >>>>>> because I know Bannon's ideas well, I am positive that there is not a >>>>>> single person whom I consider a friend on either side of the aisle-- >> and my >>>>>> friends range pretty widely-- who will benefit from whatever it is. >>>>>> >>>>>> If the shock event strategy works, though, many of you will blame each >>>>>> other, rather than Bannon, for the fallout. And the country will have >> been >>>>>> tricked into accepting their real goal. >>>>>> >>>>>> But because shock events destabilize a society, they can also be used >>>>>> positively. We do not have to respond along old fault lines. We could >> just >>>>>> as easily reorganize into a different pattern that threatens the >> people who >>>>>> sparked the event. >>>>>> >>>>>> A successful shock event depends on speed and chaos because it >> requires >>>>>> knee-jerk reactions so that people divide along established lines. >> This, >>>>>> for example, is how Confederate leaders railroaded the initial >> southern >>>>>> states out of the Union. >>>>>> >>>>>> If people realize they are being played, though, they can reach >> across old >>>>>> lines and reorganize to challenge the leaders who are pulling the >> strings. >>>>>> This was Lincoln's strategy when he joined together Whigs, Democrats, >>>>>> Free-Soilers, anti-Nebraska voters, and nativists into the new >> Republican >>>>>> Party to stand against the Slave Power. >>>>>> >>>>>> Five years before, such a coalition would have been unimaginable. >> Members >>>>>> of those groups agreed on very little other than that they wanted all >>>>>> Americans to have equal economic opportunity. Once they began to work >>>>>> together to promote a fair economic system, though, they found much >> common >>>>>> ground. They ended up rededicating the nation to a "government of the >>>>>> people, by the people, and for the people." >>>>>> >>>>>> Confederate leaders and Lincoln both knew about the political >> potential of >>>>>> a shock event. As we are in the midst of one, it seems worth noting >> that >>>>>> Lincoln seemed to have the better idea about how to use it." >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Richard Beach, Professor Emeritus of English Education, University of >>>>>> Minnesota >>>>>> rbeach@umn.edu >>>>>> Websites: Digital writing , Media >>>>>> literacy , Teaching >> literature >>>>>> , Identity-focused ELA >> Teaching < >>>>>> http://identities.pbworks.com/>, Common Core State Standards < >>>>>> http://englishccss.pbworks.com/>, Apps for literacy learning < >>>>>> http://usingipads.pbworks.com/>, Teaching about climate change < >>>>>> http://climatechangeela.pbworks.com/> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Jan 26, 2017, at 10:16 AM, Helena Worthen < >> helenaworthen@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On the subject of dividing, here is an ugly snapshot of the wedge >>>>>> getting driven in ? the building trades unions finding common ground >> with >>>>>> Trump as a ?developer.? The other deeply regressive unions are the >> prison >>>>>> guards and police. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2017/01/building-trades-allow- >>>>>> themselves-to-be-played-like-fools >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I attend monthly discussion groups in the Bay Area organized around >>>>>> readings from the magazine Jacobin. I like these because the other >>>>>> participants are mostly 20s and early 30s, techies or grad students. >> Very >>>>>> smart, very alert, very well-read and articulate. They are stamped, >>>>>> however, with evidence of never having studied history. (Philosophy, >> yes ? >>>>>> which is interesting.) To many of them, the building trades and police >>>>>> unions are typical of the political position of labor unions. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So they see LIUNA leaders meeting with Trump and smear the whole >> labor >>>>>> movement with it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> H >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Helena Worthen >>>>>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com >>>>>>> Berkeley, CA 94707 >>>>>>> Blog about US and Viet Nam: helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Jan 26, 2017, at 9:26 AM, < >>>>>> lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes, >>>>>>>> Today, the strategy of dividing, leaving us in disarray, is how i >>>>>> experience the deluge of draconian executive ?orders? that leaves me >>>>>> spinning. >>>>>>>> Leaves me questioning where to start. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Exposing the disarray on the other side in concrete ways (Koch vs >>>>>> Mercer) is a valuable addition to our ways of responding. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my Windows 10 phone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From: Peg Griffin >>>>>>>> Sent: January 26, 2017 8:57 AM >>>>>>>> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' >>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg >> referred to >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> At this point, Larry, I'm content to rise to as much concrete as I >> can >>>>>> get near, until at least the late spring, to get at ideas and >>>>>> contradictions, to keep moving and supporting so I'm in enough places >> to >>>>>> and bits of the movement to find the productive places for me. >>>>>>>> A mini-mission of mine right now is to get people to recognize the >>>>>> divide among the big money folks in the US -- the Mercer father >> daughter >>>>>> beat the Koch brothers within the Republican moneyed. >>>>>>>> The other side works hard to divide us and take advantage of the >>>>>> disarray, so why not pay attention when they are dividing themselves! >>>>>>>> No use being a day late and a dollar short about who's who! >>>>>>>> Maybe it's just that my great uncle was in vaudeville and showed us >>>>>> three yammering nieces a super card game called "52 pick-up." It's >> not too >>>>>> good too often for too long but everyone once in a while it's not a >> bad >>>>>> game. >>>>>>>> PG >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >>>>>> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of lpscholar2@gmail.com >>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 11:02 AM >>>>>>>> To: Peg Griffin; 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' >>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg >> referred to >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Peg, Mike, >>>>>>>> Reading these two articles on BigData and remembering how funding >> will >>>>>> be given to academic research that slots into being verified (or >> negated) >>>>>> through BigData is profoundly disturbing and leaves me with a sense of >>>>>> inertia at the scope of the alienation involved in this manipulation. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Using Simmel?s back and forth notion of the relation of (distance >> and >>>>>> intimacy) and finding the proper ratio depending on the events >> occuring >>>>>> then the proper relation between distance and intimacy will be >> shifting in >>>>>> scope in each historical era. >>>>>>>> Will our response to the vast distance incarnated through BIgData >>>>>> require intimate responses as counterpoint?? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If this is LIKE the 1930?s, do we have any answers from the past >> that >>>>>> give glimmers of a way forward that can be responsive at scale to the >>>>>> distancing of BigData? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my Windows 10 phone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From: Peg Griffin >>>>>>>> Sent: January 25, 2017 5:39 PM >>>>>>>> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' >>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg >> referred to >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And here's a Guardian story https://www.theguardian.com/ >>>>>> us-news/2016/nov/23/donald-trump-cambridge-analytica-steve-bannon for >>>>>> those interested in the post-election ties among the Mercers (father >> and >>>>>> daughter), Bannon, Conway, and Cambridge Analytica. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >>>>>> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Peg Griffin >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2017 7:43 PM >>>>>>>> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' >>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg >> referred to >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hee hee hee, Mike Cole, you rogue! This is the official Cambridge >>>>>> Analytica site https://cambridgeanalytica.org/ But Mike direct you >> to a >>>>>> meatier sit about it! >>>>>>>> Peg >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >>>>>> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2017 1:41 PM >>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg referred to >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://antidotezine.com/2017/01/22/trump-knows-you/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> From lpscholar2@gmail.com Thu Feb 16 17:05:44 2017 From: lpscholar2@gmail.com (lpscholar2@gmail.com) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 17:05:44 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Gunilla's 1996 paper In-Reply-To: References: <1486484311120.76271@iped.uio.no> <1486485450404.30884@iped.uio.no> <4D6F5A74-ABFD-4FAD-989A-65F0A22AA065@osu.edu> <589b857a.5156620a.5bbf5.bae1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <58a64c9e.0ccd620a.8177f.5dfe@mx.google.com> Leif, Thanks for this paper that is adding to this tapestry. I want to direct readers to the last paragraph on page 11 and first paragraph on page 12 where Gunilla (with the help of Merleau-Ponty and Rasmussen, is exploring *living space* which is different from abstract geometric space. The physical expression of play links to the imaginary process and the aesthetic (form) of play. When the children pretend to be cats they move with soft sensuous movements. The *feeling* (makes) the movements soft and THIS feeling movement (spirals back) and reinforces the softness in the feeling. The TRANSformation in this feeling movement is thus an aesthetic process, and this aesthetic process creates *new* meaning. Childrens physical *expressions* also reflect the way in which they *experience* the space which surrounds them. A room IS AN EXTENTION of the childs body. Children do not perceive/experience a room ?as? an abstract geometric *entity* - children move around *in* living space. (Rasmussen, 1996). Children see the topology of a room. In other words the room is a dynamic network OF *places* (topos) of a room. A topos with individual qualitative qualities. In other words?: A room *is a world*. THIS says Gunilla is an aesthetic way/path of looking at space. A mode. My turn is up, but i felt a deep resonance when reading these words of Gunilla as we explore perezhivanie and playworlds. Gunilla focuses on children, but can these insights be extended beyond childhood? Sent from my Windows 10 phone From: Leif Strandberg Sent: February 15, 2017 10:20 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Gunilla's 1996 paper greetings from Sweden Leif 15 feb 2017 kl. 19:03 skrev Beth Ferholt : > Thank you! A very interesting way to discuss this -- It has mean thinking > about it anew, Beth > > On Wed, Feb 8, 2017 at 3:53 PM, wrote: > >> Beth, >> >> This most recent article fleshes out and makes distinct Gunilla?s >> contribution to re-interpreting Vygotsky and moving away from Leontiev who >> believes children are modelling themselves on adults. i will quote a >> paragraph from page 930 of your and Monica?s article that should give pause >> as we move around and through this topic of playworlds : >> >> >> >> Of central importance to Lindqvist?s (1995, p. 50) theory of play is her >> positioning of herself in opposition to Leontiev, whom she characterizes as >> believing that adult roles are what children plat at, as believing that >> children?s ?play faces the future? because children in play are MODELING >> themselves on adults. She explains that Leontiev thinks of play as >> REPRODUCTION of roles in an adult world, not as PRODUCTIVE. Here Lindqvist >> is arguing that children are, often, modeling themselves on adults in play, >> but that play faces a future that will be created, in part, by those who >> are now children, and that will be created within some constraints that >> those who are now adults cannot even imagine. >> >> Lindqvist?s contribution to play theory derives in part from her ability >> to interpret Vygotsky?s work from outside the cultural, historical, and >> political context in which it was created. >> >> >> >> >> >> I offer this paragraph because when I read the above quote in which the >> semantic ?()? challenges what in particular children are modelling (i.e. >> adults) this leaves open the centrality of the modelling process itself as >> the focus and not being **an adult**. >> >> >> >> When Gunilla introduces **fear** figuratively AS the person under the >> bed, a modelling process is presented in a shared world but that modelling >> is not focusing on being **an adult**. >> >> Now the modelling process can be **an adult** or the modelling process >> can be **fear**. >> >> >> >> Each are particular instances of this modelling process. The modelling >> becomes the central focus. If we treat ?adult? as real and ?fear? as >> pretend and draw a RIGID boundary ?marker? between modelling (an adult) and >> modelling (fear) as two opposite phenomena, we seem to loose the actual >> phenomena of modelling and its centrality. >> >> >> >> When **fear** is actualized as a person and **an adult** is actualized as >> a person, children can model either within a dramatic ?()?. >> >> This phenomena has many sides in the way Merleau Ponty images ?sides? or >> aspects. For example if we face the forward or side of something we >> imagine the back ?side? and move to verify this in space. It seems **fear** >> and **an adult** as somethings offer faces in the cloud that are examples >> of modelling phenomena. This no longer privileges **an adult** as more >> central than **fear** as phenomena modelled. >> >> Or so it seems? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my Windows 10 phone >> >> >> >> *From: *Beth Ferholt >> *Sent: *February 8, 2017 8:48 AM >> *To: *laure.kloetzer@gmail.com; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >> >> >> *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: Gunilla's 1996 paper >> >> >> >> Let Monica and I know if there are others you are looking for, Laura, and >> >> maybe this is helpful? She wrote several things that should be read more >> >> than they are! Or more should be translated... Beth >> >> >> >> On Tue, Feb 7, 2017 at 1:56 PM, Laure Kloetzer >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> Dear Brian, >> >>> >> >>> Thank you so much for sharing ! Very interesting for me indeed. >> >>> >> >>> I decided to work on play with my students this semester as it is a >> >>> wonderful and engaging entry into a lot of fascinating dimensions of >> >>> learning & culture. I also plan to make them work on classical works by >> >>> Piaget and Vygotsky, and help them test the hypotheses of these authors >> on >> >>> real observations of play. >> >>> >> >>> Best, >> >>> LK >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> 2017-02-07 19:05 GMT+01:00 Edmiston, Brian W. : >> >>> >> >>>> Thanks so much, Alfredo >> >>>> >> >>>> Laure, you might be interested in this chapter of mine in which I build >> >>> on >> >>>> Lindqvist?s work >> >>>> It's coming out in the new Routledge Handbook of Early Childhood Play >> >>>> (I know Beth has a chapter in there too) >> >>>> >> >>>> Brian Edmiston >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>> On 7 Feb 2017, at 11:37 am, Alfredo Jornet Gil >> >>>> wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>> I see. Here is the article! I think this time is right. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Alfredo >> >>>>> ________________________________________ >> >>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > edu >> >>>> >> >>>> on behalf of Alfredo Jornet Gil >> >>>>> Sent: 07 February 2017 17:18 >> >>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity; laure.kloetzer@gmail.com >> >>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Gunilla's 1996 paper >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Hi Laure, >> >>>>> >> >>>>> I find this online. not the best copy, but one available. See if you >> >>> can >> >>>> download it (it's 3MB big, can make it smaller and share if you could >> not >> >>>> download) >> >>>>> http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED396824.pdf >> >>>>> Hope it helps, >> >>>>> Alfredo >> >>>>> ________________________________________ >> >>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > edu >> >>>> >> >>>> on behalf of Laure Kloetzer >> >>>>> Sent: 07 February 2017 17:01 >> >>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >> >>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Gunilla's 1996 paper >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Dear colleagues, >> >>>>> >> >>>>> After a desperate search for Gunilla's classical paper in my Swiss >> >>>>> libraries, I am asking the community for some help. Would one of you >> >>>> have a >> >>>>> pdf copy of: >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Lindqvist, G. (1996). The aesthetics of play. A didactic study of >> play >> >>>> and >> >>>>> culture in preschools. *Early Years*, *17*(1), 6-11. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Thanks a lot for your help ! >> >>>>> Best regards >> >>>>> LK >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Beth Ferholt >> >> Assistant Professor >> >> Department of Early Childhood and Art Education >> >> Brooklyn College, City University of New York >> >> 2900 Bedford Avenue >> >> Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 >> >> >> >> Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu >> >> Phone: (718) 951-5205 >> >> Fax: (718) 951-4816 >> >> >> > > > > -- > Beth Ferholt > Assistant Professor > Department of Early Childhood and Art Education > Brooklyn College, City University of New York > 2900 Bedford Avenue > Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 > > Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu > Phone: (718) 951-5205 > Fax: (718) 951-4816 From smago@uga.edu Mon Feb 20 03:17:13 2017 From: smago@uga.edu (Peter Smagorinsky) Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2017 11:17:13 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] FW: my new book on Vygotsky In-Reply-To: <1487544030166.35069@gc.cuny.edu> References: , , , , , , <1487544030166.35069@gc.cuny.edu> Message-ID: Of possible interest: From: Stetsenko, Anna [mailto:AStetsenko@gc.cuny.edu] Hi Peter, attached is my chapter's final version which will soon appear in RRE. Since you reviewed it, I want to share the final "fruits."? And - I also want to share about my new book where I expand Vygotsky's approach including through drawing more links to critical pedagogy, among other shifts in perspective- the flyer with book description and a discount is attached. Please share with others who might be interested. I would love to hear about your new works. Also, the first chapter is available at my site at http://www.academia.edu or at Cambridge University Press: http://assets.cambridge.org/97805218/65586/excerpt/9780521865586_excerpt.pdf? best regards, Anna -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: The Transformative Mind_Flyer.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 2371885 bytes Desc: The Transformative Mind_Flyer.pdf Url : https://mailman.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/xmca-l/attachments/20170220/29903f85/attachment-0002.pdf -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: RRE687524_REV1.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 485161 bytes Desc: RRE687524_REV1.pdf Url : https://mailman.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/xmca-l/attachments/20170220/29903f85/attachment-0003.pdf From smago@uga.edu Mon Feb 20 07:32:32 2017 From: smago@uga.edu (Peter Smagorinsky) Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2017 15:32:32 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] http://www.ahshistory.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/GUNS-GERMS-AND-STEEL.pdf Message-ID: http://www.ahshistory.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/GUNS-GERMS-AND-STEEL.pdf While looking up a reference, I found that there's a copy of Jared Diamond's Germs, Guns, and Steel available as a free pdf at this link. I found it to be a very compelling account of how some cultures had initial advantages over others and formed dominant relations, first based in the agricultural potential of their land, and subsequently on the tools and weapons they developed, and ultimately on the specific diseases that they developed immunities to yet that assisted with the subjugation of newly exposed populations,. From h2cmng@yahoo.co.uk Mon Feb 20 08:00:06 2017 From: h2cmng@yahoo.co.uk (peter jones) Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2017 16:00:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: http://www.ahshistory.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/GUNS-GERMS-AND-STEEL.pdf In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <699276916.2154004.1487606406389@mail.yahoo.com> Hello Peter, Diamond's book is very informative. I was struck by the huge impact of geographic and climatic polarities E-W S-N as an addition to the conceptual dichotomies that usually preoccupy us.?Peter JonesCommunity Mental Health NurseCMHT BrooksideAughton StreetOrmskirk L39 3BH, UKBlogging at "Welcome to the QUAD"http://hodges-model.blogspot.com/http://twitter.com/h2cm On Monday, 20 February 2017, 15:34, Peter Smagorinsky wrote: http://www.ahshistory.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/GUNS-GERMS-AND-STEEL.pdf While looking up a reference, I found that there's a copy of Jared Diamond's Germs, Guns, and Steel available as a free pdf at this link. I found it to be a very compelling account of how some cultures had initial advantages over others and formed dominant relations, first based in the agricultural potential of their land, and subsequently on the tools and weapons they developed, and ultimately on the specific diseases that they developed immunities to yet that assisted with the subjugation of newly exposed populations,. From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Mon Feb 20 12:05:39 2017 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2017 20:05:39 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Anna's new book on Vygotsky In-Reply-To: References: , , , , , , <1487544030166.35069@gc.cuny.edu>, Message-ID: <1487621139546.13312@iped.uio.no> Thanks for sharing, Peter. I had problems following the links Anna provided, and so I asked her for the links again. Here they are: Her Academia.edu pages: https://gc-cuny.academia.edu/AnnaStetsenko The Cambridge Press book pages: http://www.cambridge.org/us/academic/subjects/psychology/educational-psychology/transformative-mind-expanding-vygotskys-approach-development-and-education?format=HB I hope these links work. Alfredo ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Peter Smagorinsky Sent: 20 February 2017 12:17 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] FW: my new book on Vygotsky Of possible interest: From: Stetsenko, Anna [mailto:AStetsenko@gc.cuny.edu] Hi Peter, attached is my chapter's final version which will soon appear in RRE. Since you reviewed it, I want to share the final "fruits."? And - I also want to share about my new book where I expand Vygotsky's approach including through drawing more links to critical pedagogy, among other shifts in perspective- the flyer with book description and a discount is attached. Please share with others who might be interested. I would love to hear about your new works. Also, the first chapter is available at my site at http://www.academia.edu or at Cambridge University Press: http://assets.cambridge.org/97805218/65586/excerpt/9780521865586_excerpt.pdf? best regards, Anna From lpscholar2@gmail.com Mon Feb 20 13:54:01 2017 From: lpscholar2@gmail.com (lpscholar2@gmail.com) Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2017 13:54:01 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Anna's new book on Vygotsky In-Reply-To: <1487621139546.13312@iped.uio.no> References: , , , , , , <1487544030166.35069@gc.cuny.edu>, <1487621139546.13312@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: <58ab65b2.5c37630a.8a339.5641@mx.google.com> Thanks Alfredo and Peter, The books title (the transformative mind) contrasting with the (adaptive mind) Then the word *extending* Vygotsky which she elaborates in the next 10 pages inviting us into her personal question to include mind and subjectivity as key to her extention, with no expectation of a permanent arrival. More in the image of creating a *stage* for presenting her transformative model. This image of stage linked into playworlds and worldviews. Hope it comes to paperback or email in the future. Sent from my Windows 10 phone From: Alfredo Jornet Gil Sent: February 20, 2017 12:08 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Anna's new book on Vygotsky Thanks for sharing, Peter. I had problems following the links Anna provided, and so I asked her for the links again. Here they are: Her Academia.edu pages: https://gc-cuny.academia.edu/AnnaStetsenko The Cambridge Press book pages: http://www.cambridge.org/us/academic/subjects/psychology/educational-psychology/transformative-mind-expanding-vygotskys-approach-development-and-education?format=HB I hope these links work. Alfredo ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Peter Smagorinsky Sent: 20 February 2017 12:17 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] FW: my new book on Vygotsky Of possible interest: From: Stetsenko, Anna [mailto:AStetsenko@gc.cuny.edu] Hi Peter, attached is my chapter's final version which will soon appear in RRE. Since you reviewed it, I want to share the final "fruits."? And - I also want to share about my new book where I expand Vygotsky's approach including through drawing more links to critical pedagogy, among other shifts in perspective- the flyer with book description and a discount is attached. Please share with others who might be interested. I would love to hear about your new works. Also, the first chapter is available at my site at http://www.academia.edu or at Cambridge University Press: http://assets.cambridge.org/97805218/65586/excerpt/9780521865586_excerpt.pdf? best regards, Anna From ablunden@mira.net Mon Feb 20 17:43:18 2017 From: ablunden@mira.net (Andy Blunden) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 12:43:18 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] fact and fake Message-ID: <8f382d4a-5f36-84ce-8afc-391e5ff6be19@mira.net> The Washington Post has a series of interviews with people attending Trump's rally where they were the first to learn of the Swedish terrorist attack in Trump's imagination, planted there by FOX News. The faith of these Trump loyalists seems unshakeable, though the resignation of Flynn was causing a little difficulty, but I wouldn't put it more strongly. It was still the fault of the "mainstream media". Is there no point beyond which Trump can step where fact and fake can be distinguished from trust and favour? In the discussion we had around his Inauguration Day speech I suggested it would be people getting ill and discovering that they had lost the coverage they had under ObamaCare. I would be interested in hearing early anecdotes of people who are Trumpistas up till now but who change their mind and what it is which does the trick. It seems almost like we have to discover a hole in political space-time to escape this black hole! Andy -- ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden http://home.mira.net/~andy http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Mon Feb 20 19:16:15 2017 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 03:16:15 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: fact and fake In-Reply-To: <8f382d4a-5f36-84ce-8afc-391e5ff6be19@mira.net> References: <8f382d4a-5f36-84ce-8afc-391e5ff6be19@mira.net> Message-ID: <1487646974942.43945@iped.uio.no> Totally relevant, Andy. As you say, it's so interesting to follow how issues of faith and truth will be unfolding and changing in all sectors of society. This has been going on for quite long time, I think, not only about Trump but more generally with regard to socioscientific issues such as climate change. But, perhaps fortunately, it seems this is turning into crisis (and hence change), with those same features becoming more exacerbated. It's scary and exciting at the same time. I've been (as many of you) following the multiple testimonies and analyses that are emerging in the media, intended and unintended, lots of working-over in the form of analysis. It's amazing how much material for analysis and how many actual analyses are being produced. Is as if as history was shaking, so too was consciousness shaking, producing more and more. Alfredo ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Andy Blunden Sent: 21 February 2017 02:43 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] fact and fake The Washington Post has a series of interviews with people attending Trump's rally where they were the first to learn of the Swedish terrorist attack in Trump's imagination, planted there by FOX News. The faith of these Trump loyalists seems unshakeable, though the resignation of Flynn was causing a little difficulty, but I wouldn't put it more strongly. It was still the fault of the "mainstream media". Is there no point beyond which Trump can step where fact and fake can be distinguished from trust and favour? In the discussion we had around his Inauguration Day speech I suggested it would be people getting ill and discovering that they had lost the coverage they had under ObamaCare. I would be interested in hearing early anecdotes of people who are Trumpistas up till now but who change their mind and what it is which does the trick. It seems almost like we have to discover a hole in political space-time to escape this black hole! Andy -- ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden http://home.mira.net/~andy http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making From dkellogg60@gmail.com Tue Feb 21 06:31:19 2017 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 23:31:19 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: fact and fake In-Reply-To: <1487646974942.43945@iped.uio.no> References: <8f382d4a-5f36-84ce-8afc-391e5ff6be19@mira.net> <1487646974942.43945@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: Andy and Alfredo: I'm in the USA right now, my first visit in three years. I don't want to understate the depth of the ideological changes: there has clearly been a remarkable coarsening and vulgarization of the national discussion, and there is undoubtedly a normalization of racism well underway. But when we speak of the new regime as a significant source of material, real suffering for working people, I can't think of any assault on the livelihood of workers that wasn't first pioneered by the "pragmatic progressives" of the previous administration. In other words, at least so far, the changes seem more at the level of faith, and the facts point to continuity. (People who actually live here should correct me if I am wrong.) Take for example the two issues Andy raises. First of all, "Last Night in Sweden" appears to simply be another instance of the president's watching late night television and confusing a report on crime in Sweden with an actual terror attack occurring in real time. When you look at the transcript of what he says, it is quite possible that the confusion is not in his mind but only in his language: he actually MEANT to say "if you look at the what WAS happening in the report I watched last night in Sweden" and the syntax was too much for him. This is the kind of poor language that happens all the time in everyday discourse, including that of the head of state; it's just that thanks to a combination of poor impulse control and new technology, we now get all this confused and confusing language in an unedited form. This is a semiotic change indeed, but it's not a material one in the sense that nobody has yet died over it, either in Sweden or in the USA. Secondly, Obamacare seem to be as far as ever from being repealed; there is a basic contradiction between the ideological commitment of the government to ensuring the speedy death of those who cannot afford treatment and stability in the insurance markets. The latter is still very much predominant, just as it predominated over the (weak) ideological commitment of the previous regime to expanding health care to include everyone. What the current head of state actually SAYS about health care has, at times, gone well beyond that weak commitment: "GREAT healthcare for EVERYBODY". For a while, Republicans in the Senate were trying to interpret that statement as "potential access" to everybody who can pay for it, but this was dropped when the insurance markets responded negatively. I think that this basic factual continuity combined with constant breaches of faith is the source of the tension and excitement that Alfredo mentions. The previous regime liked to speak of being workmanlike and practical, with an emphasis on getting things done, and if anything the regime was actually rather proud of its inability to communicate the wonky facts of their supposed accomplishments to working people. The argument was that good policy would eventually make for good politics, and if it didn't, then it was better to have the former than the latter. But the argument for human equality is an argument of good faith, except in the trivial sense that we all have more or less the same physiological hardware: the argument for human equality must now be made on emotional grounds and not in the language of "facts". Precisely because the Obama regime was, at bottom, so right wing, opposition to Obama was increasingly focused on the "fact" of his race alone. And precisely because the current regime is so outspokenly white and at the same time so amateurish, incompetent and utterly incoherent, it is able to convey the bankruptcy of white supremacy to white people in direct, emotionally accessible ways that were impossible for Obama. This is not progress towards a de facto equality, but it seems to me to be the harbinger of a giant leap of faith. No matter lies, and all lies matter. David Kellogg Macquarie University rea On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 12:16 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > Totally relevant, Andy. As you say, it's so interesting to follow how > issues of faith and truth will be unfolding and changing in all sectors of > society. This has been going on for quite long time, I think, not only > about Trump but more generally with regard to socioscientific issues such > as climate change. But, perhaps fortunately, it seems this is turning into > crisis (and hence change), with those same features becoming more > exacerbated. It's scary and exciting at the same time. > > I've been (as many of you) following the multiple testimonies and analyses > that are emerging in the media, intended and unintended, lots of > working-over in the form of analysis. It's amazing how much material for > analysis and how many actual analyses are being produced. Is as if as > history was shaking, so too was consciousness shaking, producing more and > more. > > Alfredo > ________________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Andy Blunden > Sent: 21 February 2017 02:43 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] fact and fake > > The Washington Post has a series of interviews with people > attending Trump's rally where they were the first to learn > of the Swedish terrorist attack in Trump's imagination, > planted there by FOX News. The faith of these Trump > loyalists seems unshakeable, though the resignation of Flynn > was causing a little difficulty, but I wouldn't put it more > strongly. It was still the fault of the "mainstream media". > > Is there no point beyond which Trump can step where fact and > fake can be distinguished from trust and favour? In the > discussion we had around his Inauguration Day speech I > suggested it would be people getting ill and discovering > that they had lost the coverage they had under ObamaCare. > > I would be interested in hearing early anecdotes of people > who are Trumpistas up till now but who change their mind and > what it is which does the trick. It seems almost like we > have to discover a hole in political space-time to escape > this black hole! > > Andy > > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > http://home.mira.net/~andy > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making > From rakahu@utu.fi Tue Feb 21 06:35:23 2017 From: rakahu@utu.fi (Rauno Huttunen) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 14:35:23 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Final Call: History & Philosophy of Education summer days, 7-9 June 2017, University of Tampere, Finland Message-ID: Hello, Are anybody interest in to participate conference in Finland. There is no registration fee and Vygotskian presentations are very warmly welcome. I will be there. https://equjust.wordpress.com/2017/02/20/finalcall/ Deadline is 28th of February. Possible there might be founding meeting for North European Society for History and Philosophy of Education. Rauno Huttunen From bella.kotik@gmail.com Tue Feb 21 06:55:49 2017 From: bella.kotik@gmail.com (Bella Kotik-Friedgut) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 16:55:49 +0200 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Final Call: History & Philosophy of Education summer days, 7-9 June 2017, University of Tampere, Finland In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Similar conference http://www.iutconference.com/ in Israel Sincerely yours Bella Kotik-Friedgut On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 4:35 PM, Rauno Huttunen wrote: > Hello, > > Are anybody interest in to participate conference in Finland. There is no > registration fee and Vygotskian presentations are very warmly welcome. I > will be there. > > https://equjust.wordpress.com/2017/02/20/finalcall/ > > Deadline is 28th of February. > > Possible there might be founding meeting for North European Society for > History and Philosophy of Education. > > Rauno Huttunen > > > > > From Peg.Griffin@att.net Tue Feb 21 08:26:59 2017 From: Peg.Griffin@att.net (Peg Griffin) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 11:26:59 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: fact and fake In-Reply-To: References: <8f382d4a-5f36-84ce-8afc-391e5ff6be19@mira.net> <1487646974942.43945@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: <002401d28c5f$54540560$fcfc1020$@att.net> Just on record, David, a rejection of your parenthetical: "(People who actually live here should correct me if I am wrong.)" You are wrong but correcting you is far down on the list of "should" actions, so far down that simply saying it is sufficient. Peg -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 9:31 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: fact and fake Andy and Alfredo: I'm in the USA right now, my first visit in three years. I don't want to understate the depth of the ideological changes: there has clearly been a remarkable coarsening and vulgarization of the national discussion, and there is undoubtedly a normalization of racism well underway. But when we speak of the new regime as a significant source of material, real suffering for working people, I can't think of any assault on the livelihood of workers that wasn't first pioneered by the "pragmatic progressives" of the previous administration. In other words, at least so far, the changes seem more at the level of faith, and the facts point to continuity. (People who actually live here should correct me if I am wrong.) Take for example the two issues Andy raises. First of all, "Last Night in Sweden" appears to simply be another instance of the president's watching late night television and confusing a report on crime in Sweden with an actual terror attack occurring in real time. When you look at the transcript of what he says, it is quite possible that the confusion is not in his mind but only in his language: he actually MEANT to say "if you look at the what WAS happening in the report I watched last night in Sweden" and the syntax was too much for him. This is the kind of poor language that happens all the time in everyday discourse, including that of the head of state; it's just that thanks to a combination of poor impulse control and new technology, we now get all this confused and confusing language in an unedited form. This is a semiotic change indeed, but it's not a material one in the sense that nobody has yet died over it, either in Sweden or in the USA. Secondly, Obamacare seem to be as far as ever from being repealed; there is a basic contradiction between the ideological commitment of the government to ensuring the speedy death of those who cannot afford treatment and stability in the insurance markets. The latter is still very much predominant, just as it predominated over the (weak) ideological commitment of the previous regime to expanding health care to include everyone. What the current head of state actually SAYS about health care has, at times, gone well beyond that weak commitment: "GREAT healthcare for EVERYBODY". For a while, Republicans in the Senate were trying to interpret that statement as "potential access" to everybody who can pay for it, but this was dropped when the insurance markets responded negatively. I think that this basic factual continuity combined with constant breaches of faith is the source of the tension and excitement that Alfredo mentions. The previous regime liked to speak of being workmanlike and practical, with an emphasis on getting things done, and if anything the regime was actually rather proud of its inability to communicate the wonky facts of their supposed accomplishments to working people. The argument was that good policy would eventually make for good politics, and if it didn't, then it was better to have the former than the latter. But the argument for human equality is an argument of good faith, except in the trivial sense that we all have more or less the same physiological hardware: the argument for human equality must now be made on emotional grounds and not in the language of "facts". Precisely because the Obama regime was, at bottom, so right wing, opposition to Obama was increasingly focused on the "fact" of his race alone. And precisely because the current regime is so outspokenly white and at the same time so amateurish, incompetent and utterly incoherent, it is able to convey the bankruptcy of white supremacy to white people in direct, emotionally accessible ways that were impossible for Obama. This is not progress towards a de facto equality, but it seems to me to be the harbinger of a giant leap of faith. No matter lies, and all lies matter. David Kellogg Macquarie University rea On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 12:16 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > Totally relevant, Andy. As you say, it's so interesting to follow how > issues of faith and truth will be unfolding and changing in all > sectors of society. This has been going on for quite long time, I > think, not only about Trump but more generally with regard to > socioscientific issues such as climate change. But, perhaps > fortunately, it seems this is turning into crisis (and hence change), > with those same features becoming more exacerbated. It's scary and exciting at the same time. > > I've been (as many of you) following the multiple testimonies and > analyses that are emerging in the media, intended and unintended, lots > of working-over in the form of analysis. It's amazing how much > material for analysis and how many actual analyses are being produced. > Is as if as history was shaking, so too was consciousness shaking, > producing more and more. > > Alfredo > ________________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Andy Blunden > > Sent: 21 February 2017 02:43 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] fact and fake > > The Washington Post has a series of interviews with people attending > Trump's rally where they were the first to learn of the Swedish > terrorist attack in Trump's imagination, planted there by FOX News. > The faith of these Trump loyalists seems unshakeable, though the > resignation of Flynn was causing a little difficulty, but I wouldn't > put it more strongly. It was still the fault of the "mainstream > media". > > Is there no point beyond which Trump can step where fact and fake can > be distinguished from trust and favour? In the discussion we had > around his Inauguration Day speech I suggested it would be people > getting ill and discovering that they had lost the coverage they had > under ObamaCare. > > I would be interested in hearing early anecdotes of people who are > Trumpistas up till now but who change their mind and what it is which > does the trick. It seems almost like we have to discover a hole in > political space-time to escape this black hole! > > Andy > > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > http://home.mira.net/~andy > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making > From Peg.Griffin@att.net Tue Feb 21 09:29:00 2017 From: Peg.Griffin@att.net (Peg Griffin) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 12:29:00 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: fact and fake In-Reply-To: <8f382d4a-5f36-84ce-8afc-391e5ff6be19@mira.net> References: <8f382d4a-5f36-84ce-8afc-391e5ff6be19@mira.net> Message-ID: <003401d28c68$00e34ef0$02a9ecd0$@att.net> Not yet much available about what changes allegiances in the places I go, Andy. No one seems to bother about what the backgrounds are of those we are working with during teach-ins, rallies, marches, jail support, planning, collaborative research about swing districts, street drama. Our clothing, buttons, signs and physical appearances we take at face value and acceptance/distance arise during eventual co-action. There might be people who were once pro tRump in our midst, but it doesn't come up, yet. We might all be pretty much like each other, some might be on left or right, peaceful or violent. Technology assures us anything we do or say is widely available if anyone wants to monitor it or use it against us, so no need for censoring each other for safety! Nevertheless, we persist. (By the way, I notice more and more males wearing pussy hats at gatherings. Yesterday, we filled street and sidewalk of Connecticut Avenue with very nice police support that had us proceed at three block chunks in our walking and choral chants from Dupont Circle to the White House.) We are each, I think, in and by our activity developing the "who I am" and "who we are" before we get to the "who we were" or "who tRump voters are/were/." I think most of us are sure of this: The number of 2016 voters for one candidate or another does not have a strong relation (overall or state by state or district by district) to the number of supporters or activists we have for our agenda points. It's "us" we need to figure out how to get out to act/think/vote by 2018; we don't need to suppress/seduce/trick the votes or voices for other candidates; we do, of course, need "conversions" to win in some districts/states but the old saw about politics being local in the US probably means different strokes for different folks and with different success. Some of that local diversity will be good evidence in change experiments we might use for our advantage in 2020. I'll pass it on if I hear anything relevant to your query, Andy. Meanwhile, remember that lots of folks have no experience with the federal exchanges for the Affordable Care Act (ACA), these were supposed to just be fall backs for state exchanges. Some states also refused the Medicaid increase part of the ACA. Differences among state exchanges and results of court actions increase the diversity people here experience(d) even before the election and will experience in any of the "repeal-replace" scenarios. Peg -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 8:43 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] fact and fake The Washington Post has a series of interviews with people attending Trump's rally where they were the first to learn of the Swedish terrorist attack in Trump's imagination, planted there by FOX News. The faith of these Trump loyalists seems unshakeable, though the resignation of Flynn was causing a little difficulty, but I wouldn't put it more strongly. It was still the fault of the "mainstream media". Is there no point beyond which Trump can step where fact and fake can be distinguished from trust and favour? In the discussion we had around his Inauguration Day speech I suggested it would be people getting ill and discovering that they had lost the coverage they had under ObamaCare. I would be interested in hearing early anecdotes of people who are Trumpistas up till now but who change their mind and what it is which does the trick. It seems almost like we have to discover a hole in political space-time to escape this black hole! Andy -- ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden http://home.mira.net/~andy http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making From mcole@ucsd.edu Tue Feb 21 09:42:48 2017 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 09:42:48 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: fact and fake In-Reply-To: <002401d28c5f$54540560$fcfc1020$@att.net> References: <8f382d4a-5f36-84ce-8afc-391e5ff6be19@mira.net> <1487646974942.43945@iped.uio.no> <002401d28c5f$54540560$fcfc1020$@att.net> Message-ID: ?One thing on my list of actions is to remind people of the mid-1930's in the world, and in the US in particular. In reminding myself? of that time I have found it interesting to take up Sinclair Lewis's 1935 book, *It can't happen here.* Perhaps not the best of Lewis's writing, but he was in a hurry. The message seemed urgent. I find it interesting bed time reading. You can get the idea from the wikipedia entry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_Can't_Happen_Here And cheap copies abound. Mike - PS - Off later to an event where a congressman is going to be too busy to be at his own town meeting. Working on a sign. "No representation without taxation." On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 8:26 AM, Peg Griffin wrote: > Just on record, David, a rejection of your parenthetical: "(People who > actually live here should correct me if I am wrong.)" > You are wrong but correcting you is far down on the list of "should" > actions, so far down that simply saying it is sufficient. > Peg > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg > Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 9:31 AM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: fact and fake > > Andy and Alfredo: > > I'm in the USA right now, my first visit in three years. I don't want to > understate the depth of the ideological changes: there has clearly been a > remarkable coarsening and vulgarization of the national discussion, and > there is undoubtedly a normalization of racism well underway. But when we > speak of the new regime as a significant source of material, real suffering > for working people, I can't think of any assault on the livelihood of > workers that wasn't first pioneered by the "pragmatic progressives" of the > previous administration. In other words, at least so far, the changes seem > more at the level of faith, and the facts point to continuity. (People who > actually live here should correct me if I am wrong.) > > Take for example the two issues Andy raises. First of all, "Last Night in > Sweden" appears to simply be another instance of the president's watching > late night television and confusing a report on crime in Sweden with an > actual terror attack occurring in real time. When you look at the > transcript of what he says, it is quite possible that the confusion is not > in his mind but only in his language: he actually MEANT to say "if you look > at the what WAS happening in the report I watched last night in Sweden" and > the syntax was too much for him. This is the kind of poor language that > happens all the time in everyday discourse, including that of the head of > state; it's just that thanks to a combination of poor impulse control and > new technology, we now get all this confused and confusing language in an > unedited form. This is a semiotic change indeed, but it's not a material > one in the sense that nobody has yet died over it, either in Sweden or in > the USA. > > Secondly, Obamacare seem to be as far as ever from being repealed; there > is a basic contradiction between the ideological commitment of the > government to ensuring the speedy death of those who cannot afford > treatment and stability in the insurance markets. The latter is still very > much predominant, just as it predominated over the (weak) ideological > commitment of the previous regime to expanding health care to include > everyone. What the current head of state actually SAYS about health care > has, at times, gone well beyond that weak commitment: "GREAT healthcare for > EVERYBODY". > For a while, Republicans in the Senate were trying to interpret that > statement as "potential access" to everybody who can pay for it, but this > was dropped when the insurance markets responded negatively. > > I think that this basic factual continuity combined with constant breaches > of faith is the source of the tension and excitement that Alfredo mentions. > The previous regime liked to speak of being workmanlike and practical, > with an emphasis on getting things done, and if anything the regime was > actually rather proud of its inability to communicate the wonky facts of > their supposed accomplishments to working people. The argument was that > good policy would eventually make for good politics, and if it didn't, then > it was better to have the former than the latter. But the argument for > human equality is an argument of good faith, except in the trivial sense > that we all have more or less the same physiological hardware: the argument > for human equality must now be made on emotional grounds and not in the > language of "facts". > > Precisely because the Obama regime was, at bottom, so right wing, > opposition to Obama was increasingly focused on the "fact" of his race > alone. And precisely because the current regime is so outspokenly white and > at the same time so amateurish, incompetent and utterly incoherent, it is > able to convey the bankruptcy of white supremacy to white people in direct, > emotionally accessible ways that were impossible for Obama. This is not > progress towards a de facto equality, but it seems to me to be the > harbinger of a giant leap of faith. > > No matter lies, and all lies matter. > > David Kellogg > Macquarie University > > > > > > rea > > On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 12:16 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > wrote: > > > Totally relevant, Andy. As you say, it's so interesting to follow how > > issues of faith and truth will be unfolding and changing in all > > sectors of society. This has been going on for quite long time, I > > think, not only about Trump but more generally with regard to > > socioscientific issues such as climate change. But, perhaps > > fortunately, it seems this is turning into crisis (and hence change), > > with those same features becoming more exacerbated. It's scary and > exciting at the same time. > > > > I've been (as many of you) following the multiple testimonies and > > analyses that are emerging in the media, intended and unintended, lots > > of working-over in the form of analysis. It's amazing how much > > material for analysis and how many actual analyses are being produced. > > Is as if as history was shaking, so too was consciousness shaking, > > producing more and more. > > > > Alfredo > > ________________________________________ > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > on behalf of Andy Blunden > > > > Sent: 21 February 2017 02:43 > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] fact and fake > > > > The Washington Post has a series of interviews with people attending > > Trump's rally where they were the first to learn of the Swedish > > terrorist attack in Trump's imagination, planted there by FOX News. > > The faith of these Trump loyalists seems unshakeable, though the > > resignation of Flynn was causing a little difficulty, but I wouldn't > > put it more strongly. It was still the fault of the "mainstream > > media". > > > > Is there no point beyond which Trump can step where fact and fake can > > be distinguished from trust and favour? In the discussion we had > > around his Inauguration Day speech I suggested it would be people > > getting ill and discovering that they had lost the coverage they had > > under ObamaCare. > > > > I would be interested in hearing early anecdotes of people who are > > Trumpistas up till now but who change their mind and what it is which > > does the trick. It seems almost like we have to discover a hole in > > political space-time to escape this black hole! > > > > Andy > > > > > > -- > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Andy Blunden > > http://home.mira.net/~andy > > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making > > > > > From Peg.Griffin@att.net Tue Feb 21 11:07:41 2017 From: Peg.Griffin@att.net (Peg Griffin) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 14:07:41 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: fact and fake In-Reply-To: References: <8f382d4a-5f36-84ce-8afc-391e5ff6be19@mira.net> <1487646974942.43945@iped.uio.no> <002401d28c5f$54540560$fcfc1020$@att.net> Message-ID: <004501d28c75$c7538ed0$55faac70$@att.net> Thanks for the tip about the book, Mike! And as a DC resident I'm sorry you are taxed and not represented in the executive branch but I must admit I'm also a little bit glad that DC has companions since we also have no vote in House or Senate! Let me know if you folks want anything hand-delivered to Issa's office here (2269 Rayburn House Office Building). Peg -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 12:43 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: fact and fake ?One thing on my list of actions is to remind people of the mid-1930's in the world, and in the US in particular. In reminding myself? of that time I have found it interesting to take up Sinclair Lewis's 1935 book, *It can't happen here.* Perhaps not the best of Lewis's writing, but he was in a hurry. The message seemed urgent. I find it interesting bed time reading. You can get the idea from the wikipedia entry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_Can't_Happen_Here And cheap copies abound. Mike - PS - Off later to an event where a congressman is going to be too busy to be at his own town meeting. Working on a sign. "No representation without taxation." On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 8:26 AM, Peg Griffin wrote: > Just on record, David, a rejection of your parenthetical: "(People who > actually live here should correct me if I am wrong.)" > You are wrong but correcting you is far down on the list of "should" > actions, so far down that simply saying it is sufficient. > Peg > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg > Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 9:31 AM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: fact and fake > > Andy and Alfredo: > > I'm in the USA right now, my first visit in three years. I don't want > to understate the depth of the ideological changes: there has clearly > been a remarkable coarsening and vulgarization of the national > discussion, and there is undoubtedly a normalization of racism well > underway. But when we speak of the new regime as a significant source > of material, real suffering for working people, I can't think of any > assault on the livelihood of workers that wasn't first pioneered by > the "pragmatic progressives" of the previous administration. In other > words, at least so far, the changes seem more at the level of faith, > and the facts point to continuity. (People who actually live here > should correct me if I am wrong.) > > Take for example the two issues Andy raises. First of all, "Last Night > in Sweden" appears to simply be another instance of the president's > watching late night television and confusing a report on crime in > Sweden with an actual terror attack occurring in real time. When you > look at the transcript of what he says, it is quite possible that the > confusion is not in his mind but only in his language: he actually > MEANT to say "if you look at the what WAS happening in the report I > watched last night in Sweden" and the syntax was too much for him. > This is the kind of poor language that happens all the time in > everyday discourse, including that of the head of state; it's just > that thanks to a combination of poor impulse control and new > technology, we now get all this confused and confusing language in an > unedited form. This is a semiotic change indeed, but it's not a > material one in the sense that nobody has yet died over it, either in Sweden or in the USA. > > Secondly, Obamacare seem to be as far as ever from being repealed; > there is a basic contradiction between the ideological commitment of > the government to ensuring the speedy death of those who cannot afford > treatment and stability in the insurance markets. The latter is still > very much predominant, just as it predominated over the (weak) > ideological commitment of the previous regime to expanding health care > to include everyone. What the current head of state actually SAYS > about health care has, at times, gone well beyond that weak > commitment: "GREAT healthcare for EVERYBODY". > For a while, Republicans in the Senate were trying to interpret that > statement as "potential access" to everybody who can pay for it, but > this was dropped when the insurance markets responded negatively. > > I think that this basic factual continuity combined with constant > breaches of faith is the source of the tension and excitement that Alfredo mentions. > The previous regime liked to speak of being workmanlike and practical, > with an emphasis on getting things done, and if anything the regime > was actually rather proud of its inability to communicate the wonky > facts of their supposed accomplishments to working people. The > argument was that good policy would eventually make for good politics, > and if it didn't, then it was better to have the former than the > latter. But the argument for human equality is an argument of good > faith, except in the trivial sense that we all have more or less the > same physiological hardware: the argument for human equality must now > be made on emotional grounds and not in the language of "facts". > > Precisely because the Obama regime was, at bottom, so right wing, > opposition to Obama was increasingly focused on the "fact" of his race > alone. And precisely because the current regime is so outspokenly > white and at the same time so amateurish, incompetent and utterly > incoherent, it is able to convey the bankruptcy of white supremacy to > white people in direct, emotionally accessible ways that were > impossible for Obama. This is not progress towards a de facto > equality, but it seems to me to be the harbinger of a giant leap of faith. > > No matter lies, and all lies matter. > > David Kellogg > Macquarie University > > > > > > rea > > On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 12:16 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > > wrote: > > > Totally relevant, Andy. As you say, it's so interesting to follow > > how issues of faith and truth will be unfolding and changing in all > > sectors of society. This has been going on for quite long time, I > > think, not only about Trump but more generally with regard to > > socioscientific issues such as climate change. But, perhaps > > fortunately, it seems this is turning into crisis (and hence > > change), with those same features becoming more exacerbated. It's > > scary and > exciting at the same time. > > > > I've been (as many of you) following the multiple testimonies and > > analyses that are emerging in the media, intended and unintended, > > lots of working-over in the form of analysis. It's amazing how much > > material for analysis and how many actual analyses are being produced. > > Is as if as history was shaking, so too was consciousness shaking, > > producing more and more. > > > > Alfredo > > ________________________________________ > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > on behalf of Andy Blunden > > > > Sent: 21 February 2017 02:43 > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] fact and fake > > > > The Washington Post has a series of interviews with people attending > > Trump's rally where they were the first to learn of the Swedish > > terrorist attack in Trump's imagination, planted there by FOX News. > > The faith of these Trump loyalists seems unshakeable, though the > > resignation of Flynn was causing a little difficulty, but I wouldn't > > put it more strongly. It was still the fault of the "mainstream > > media". > > > > Is there no point beyond which Trump can step where fact and fake > > can be distinguished from trust and favour? In the discussion we had > > around his Inauguration Day speech I suggested it would be people > > getting ill and discovering that they had lost the coverage they had > > under ObamaCare. > > > > I would be interested in hearing early anecdotes of people who are > > Trumpistas up till now but who change their mind and what it is > > which does the trick. It seems almost like we have to discover a > > hole in political space-time to escape this black hole! > > > > Andy > > > > > > -- > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Andy Blunden > > http://home.mira.net/~andy > > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-makin > > g > > > > > From Peg.Griffin@att.net Tue Feb 21 11:24:56 2017 From: Peg.Griffin@att.net (Peg Griffin) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 14:24:56 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: fact and fake In-Reply-To: References: <8f382d4a-5f36-84ce-8afc-391e5ff6be19@mira.net> <1487646974942.43945@iped.uio.no> <002401d28c5f$54540560$fcfc1020$@att.net> Message-ID: <004c01d28c78$303bb830$90b32890$@att.net> PS, Mike, you'll be glad to hear that the DC Public library has 74 holds currently pending for the 9 copies they have of "It can't happen here!" Woo Hoo! -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 12:43 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: fact and fake ?One thing on my list of actions is to remind people of the mid-1930's in the world, and in the US in particular. In reminding myself? of that time I have found it interesting to take up Sinclair Lewis's 1935 book, *It can't happen here.* Perhaps not the best of Lewis's writing, but he was in a hurry. The message seemed urgent. I find it interesting bed time reading. You can get the idea from the wikipedia entry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_Can't_Happen_Here And cheap copies abound. Mike - PS - Off later to an event where a congressman is going to be too busy to be at his own town meeting. Working on a sign. "No representation without taxation." On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 8:26 AM, Peg Griffin wrote: > Just on record, David, a rejection of your parenthetical: "(People who > actually live here should correct me if I am wrong.)" > You are wrong but correcting you is far down on the list of "should" > actions, so far down that simply saying it is sufficient. > Peg > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg > Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 9:31 AM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: fact and fake > > Andy and Alfredo: > > I'm in the USA right now, my first visit in three years. I don't want > to understate the depth of the ideological changes: there has clearly > been a remarkable coarsening and vulgarization of the national > discussion, and there is undoubtedly a normalization of racism well > underway. But when we speak of the new regime as a significant source > of material, real suffering for working people, I can't think of any > assault on the livelihood of workers that wasn't first pioneered by > the "pragmatic progressives" of the previous administration. In other > words, at least so far, the changes seem more at the level of faith, > and the facts point to continuity. (People who actually live here > should correct me if I am wrong.) > > Take for example the two issues Andy raises. First of all, "Last Night > in Sweden" appears to simply be another instance of the president's > watching late night television and confusing a report on crime in > Sweden with an actual terror attack occurring in real time. When you > look at the transcript of what he says, it is quite possible that the > confusion is not in his mind but only in his language: he actually > MEANT to say "if you look at the what WAS happening in the report I > watched last night in Sweden" and the syntax was too much for him. > This is the kind of poor language that happens all the time in > everyday discourse, including that of the head of state; it's just > that thanks to a combination of poor impulse control and new > technology, we now get all this confused and confusing language in an > unedited form. This is a semiotic change indeed, but it's not a > material one in the sense that nobody has yet died over it, either in Sweden or in the USA. > > Secondly, Obamacare seem to be as far as ever from being repealed; > there is a basic contradiction between the ideological commitment of > the government to ensuring the speedy death of those who cannot afford > treatment and stability in the insurance markets. The latter is still > very much predominant, just as it predominated over the (weak) > ideological commitment of the previous regime to expanding health care > to include everyone. What the current head of state actually SAYS > about health care has, at times, gone well beyond that weak > commitment: "GREAT healthcare for EVERYBODY". > For a while, Republicans in the Senate were trying to interpret that > statement as "potential access" to everybody who can pay for it, but > this was dropped when the insurance markets responded negatively. > > I think that this basic factual continuity combined with constant > breaches of faith is the source of the tension and excitement that Alfredo mentions. > The previous regime liked to speak of being workmanlike and practical, > with an emphasis on getting things done, and if anything the regime > was actually rather proud of its inability to communicate the wonky > facts of their supposed accomplishments to working people. The > argument was that good policy would eventually make for good politics, > and if it didn't, then it was better to have the former than the > latter. But the argument for human equality is an argument of good > faith, except in the trivial sense that we all have more or less the > same physiological hardware: the argument for human equality must now > be made on emotional grounds and not in the language of "facts". > > Precisely because the Obama regime was, at bottom, so right wing, > opposition to Obama was increasingly focused on the "fact" of his race > alone. And precisely because the current regime is so outspokenly > white and at the same time so amateurish, incompetent and utterly > incoherent, it is able to convey the bankruptcy of white supremacy to > white people in direct, emotionally accessible ways that were > impossible for Obama. This is not progress towards a de facto > equality, but it seems to me to be the harbinger of a giant leap of faith. > > No matter lies, and all lies matter. > > David Kellogg > Macquarie University > > > > > > rea > > On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 12:16 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > > wrote: > > > Totally relevant, Andy. As you say, it's so interesting to follow > > how issues of faith and truth will be unfolding and changing in all > > sectors of society. This has been going on for quite long time, I > > think, not only about Trump but more generally with regard to > > socioscientific issues such as climate change. But, perhaps > > fortunately, it seems this is turning into crisis (and hence > > change), with those same features becoming more exacerbated. It's > > scary and > exciting at the same time. > > > > I've been (as many of you) following the multiple testimonies and > > analyses that are emerging in the media, intended and unintended, > > lots of working-over in the form of analysis. It's amazing how much > > material for analysis and how many actual analyses are being produced. > > Is as if as history was shaking, so too was consciousness shaking, > > producing more and more. > > > > Alfredo > > ________________________________________ > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > on behalf of Andy Blunden > > > > Sent: 21 February 2017 02:43 > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] fact and fake > > > > The Washington Post has a series of interviews with people attending > > Trump's rally where they were the first to learn of the Swedish > > terrorist attack in Trump's imagination, planted there by FOX News. > > The faith of these Trump loyalists seems unshakeable, though the > > resignation of Flynn was causing a little difficulty, but I wouldn't > > put it more strongly. It was still the fault of the "mainstream > > media". > > > > Is there no point beyond which Trump can step where fact and fake > > can be distinguished from trust and favour? In the discussion we had > > around his Inauguration Day speech I suggested it would be people > > getting ill and discovering that they had lost the coverage they had > > under ObamaCare. > > > > I would be interested in hearing early anecdotes of people who are > > Trumpistas up till now but who change their mind and what it is > > which does the trick. It seems almost like we have to discover a > > hole in political space-time to escape this black hole! > > > > Andy > > > > > > -- > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Andy Blunden > > http://home.mira.net/~andy > > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-makin > > g > > > > > From helenaworthen@gmail.com Tue Feb 21 12:38:52 2017 From: helenaworthen@gmail.com (Helena Worthen) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 12:38:52 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: fact and fake In-Reply-To: <004c01d28c78$303bb830$90b32890$@att.net> References: <8f382d4a-5f36-84ce-8afc-391e5ff6be19@mira.net> <1487646974942.43945@iped.uio.no> <002401d28c5f$54540560$fcfc1020$@att.net> <004c01d28c78$303bb830$90b32890$@att.net> Message-ID: <847F126D-B36E-419C-B12C-3290E6468332@gmail.com> Berkeley Repertory Theater did a very good production of ?It Can?t Happen Here? last season (November). There apparently was an original adaptation by Sinclair Lewis himself, done in 1936 with a co-author John Moffitt. The people at Berkeley Rep (Tony Taccone, specifically, Artistic Director) didn?t think it was good enough so they did a new one, working very fast (this is info from progam notes), one day ahead of rehearsals. The result was really quite good. One of the nice twists is that at the end of the play, the one-time liberal newspaper editor, Jessup, who has made it across the border into Canada, slips back into the US and disappears into what is foreshadowed to be a large underground resistance. But theater is a slow form of art (the Broadway blockbuster ?Hamilton? got its first hint of public visibility in 2009, when a set of rap poems about Alexander Hamilton were performed at the White House by playwright Lin-Manuel Miranda) and plays to an audience that can afford $50-$100 tickets. H Helena Worthen helenaworthen@gmail.com Berkeley, CA 94707 Blog about US and Viet Nam: helenaworthen.wordpress.com > On Feb 21, 2017, at 11:24 AM, Peg Griffin wrote: > > PS, Mike, you'll be glad to hear that the DC Public library has 74 holds currently pending for the 9 copies they have of "It can't happen here!" Woo Hoo! > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole > Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 12:43 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: fact and fake > > ?One thing on my list of actions is to remind people of the mid-1930's in the world, and in the US in particular. > > In reminding myself? of that time I have found it interesting to take up Sinclair Lewis's 1935 book, *It can't happen here.* > > Perhaps not the best of Lewis's writing, but he was in a hurry. The message seemed urgent. I find it interesting bed time reading. > > You can get the idea from the wikipedia entry: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_Can't_Happen_Here > > And cheap copies abound. > > Mike - > > PS - Off later to an event where a congressman is going to be too busy to be at his own town meeting. Working on a sign. "No representation without taxation." > > > On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 8:26 AM, Peg Griffin wrote: > >> Just on record, David, a rejection of your parenthetical: "(People who >> actually live here should correct me if I am wrong.)" >> You are wrong but correcting you is far down on the list of "should" >> actions, so far down that simply saying it is sufficient. >> Peg >> -----Original Message----- >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg >> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 9:31 AM >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: fact and fake >> >> Andy and Alfredo: >> >> I'm in the USA right now, my first visit in three years. I don't want >> to understate the depth of the ideological changes: there has clearly >> been a remarkable coarsening and vulgarization of the national >> discussion, and there is undoubtedly a normalization of racism well >> underway. But when we speak of the new regime as a significant source >> of material, real suffering for working people, I can't think of any >> assault on the livelihood of workers that wasn't first pioneered by >> the "pragmatic progressives" of the previous administration. In other >> words, at least so far, the changes seem more at the level of faith, >> and the facts point to continuity. (People who actually live here >> should correct me if I am wrong.) >> >> Take for example the two issues Andy raises. First of all, "Last Night >> in Sweden" appears to simply be another instance of the president's >> watching late night television and confusing a report on crime in >> Sweden with an actual terror attack occurring in real time. When you >> look at the transcript of what he says, it is quite possible that the >> confusion is not in his mind but only in his language: he actually >> MEANT to say "if you look at the what WAS happening in the report I >> watched last night in Sweden" and the syntax was too much for him. >> This is the kind of poor language that happens all the time in >> everyday discourse, including that of the head of state; it's just >> that thanks to a combination of poor impulse control and new >> technology, we now get all this confused and confusing language in an >> unedited form. This is a semiotic change indeed, but it's not a >> material one in the sense that nobody has yet died over it, either in Sweden or in the USA. >> >> Secondly, Obamacare seem to be as far as ever from being repealed; >> there is a basic contradiction between the ideological commitment of >> the government to ensuring the speedy death of those who cannot afford >> treatment and stability in the insurance markets. The latter is still >> very much predominant, just as it predominated over the (weak) >> ideological commitment of the previous regime to expanding health care >> to include everyone. What the current head of state actually SAYS >> about health care has, at times, gone well beyond that weak >> commitment: "GREAT healthcare for EVERYBODY". >> For a while, Republicans in the Senate were trying to interpret that >> statement as "potential access" to everybody who can pay for it, but >> this was dropped when the insurance markets responded negatively. >> >> I think that this basic factual continuity combined with constant >> breaches of faith is the source of the tension and excitement that Alfredo mentions. >> The previous regime liked to speak of being workmanlike and practical, >> with an emphasis on getting things done, and if anything the regime >> was actually rather proud of its inability to communicate the wonky >> facts of their supposed accomplishments to working people. The >> argument was that good policy would eventually make for good politics, >> and if it didn't, then it was better to have the former than the >> latter. But the argument for human equality is an argument of good >> faith, except in the trivial sense that we all have more or less the >> same physiological hardware: the argument for human equality must now >> be made on emotional grounds and not in the language of "facts". >> >> Precisely because the Obama regime was, at bottom, so right wing, >> opposition to Obama was increasingly focused on the "fact" of his race >> alone. And precisely because the current regime is so outspokenly >> white and at the same time so amateurish, incompetent and utterly >> incoherent, it is able to convey the bankruptcy of white supremacy to >> white people in direct, emotionally accessible ways that were >> impossible for Obama. This is not progress towards a de facto >> equality, but it seems to me to be the harbinger of a giant leap of faith. >> >> No matter lies, and all lies matter. >> >> David Kellogg >> Macquarie University >> >> >> >> >> >> rea >> >> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 12:16 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil >> >> wrote: >> >>> Totally relevant, Andy. As you say, it's so interesting to follow >>> how issues of faith and truth will be unfolding and changing in all >>> sectors of society. This has been going on for quite long time, I >>> think, not only about Trump but more generally with regard to >>> socioscientific issues such as climate change. But, perhaps >>> fortunately, it seems this is turning into crisis (and hence >>> change), with those same features becoming more exacerbated. It's >>> scary and >> exciting at the same time. >>> >>> I've been (as many of you) following the multiple testimonies and >>> analyses that are emerging in the media, intended and unintended, >>> lots of working-over in the form of analysis. It's amazing how much >>> material for analysis and how many actual analyses are being produced. >>> Is as if as history was shaking, so too was consciousness shaking, >>> producing more and more. >>> >>> Alfredo >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>> on behalf of Andy Blunden >>> >>> Sent: 21 February 2017 02:43 >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] fact and fake >>> >>> The Washington Post has a series of interviews with people attending >>> Trump's rally where they were the first to learn of the Swedish >>> terrorist attack in Trump's imagination, planted there by FOX News. >>> The faith of these Trump loyalists seems unshakeable, though the >>> resignation of Flynn was causing a little difficulty, but I wouldn't >>> put it more strongly. It was still the fault of the "mainstream >>> media". >>> >>> Is there no point beyond which Trump can step where fact and fake >>> can be distinguished from trust and favour? In the discussion we had >>> around his Inauguration Day speech I suggested it would be people >>> getting ill and discovering that they had lost the coverage they had >>> under ObamaCare. >>> >>> I would be interested in hearing early anecdotes of people who are >>> Trumpistas up till now but who change their mind and what it is >>> which does the trick. It seems almost like we have to discover a >>> hole in political space-time to escape this black hole! >>> >>> Andy >>> >>> >>> -- >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Andy Blunden >>> http://home.mira.net/~andy >>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-makin >>> g >>> >> >> >> > > From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Tue Feb 21 13:28:58 2017 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 21:28:58 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: fact and fake In-Reply-To: <847F126D-B36E-419C-B12C-3290E6468332@gmail.com> References: <8f382d4a-5f36-84ce-8afc-391e5ff6be19@mira.net> <1487646974942.43945@iped.uio.no> <002401d28c5f$54540560$fcfc1020$@att.net> <004c01d28c78$303bb830$90b32890$@att.net>, <847F126D-B36E-419C-B12C-3290E6468332@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1487712537994.42935@iped.uio.no> Mike, all, here a case of 'it can't happen to me' from a 25-years old British citizen and teacher who, for still to be known reasons, was forced to leave a plane to the US while he was travelling with his fellow teachers and students. He happens to be named Mohammed. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/21/british-muslim-teacher-taken-off-us-bound-flight-i-was-treated-like-a-criminal ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Helena Worthen Sent: 21 February 2017 21:38 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: fact and fake Berkeley Repertory Theater did a very good production of ?It Can?t Happen Here? last season (November). There apparently was an original adaptation by Sinclair Lewis himself, done in 1936 with a co-author John Moffitt. The people at Berkeley Rep (Tony Taccone, specifically, Artistic Director) didn?t think it was good enough so they did a new one, working very fast (this is info from progam notes), one day ahead of rehearsals. The result was really quite good. One of the nice twists is that at the end of the play, the one-time liberal newspaper editor, Jessup, who has made it across the border into Canada, slips back into the US and disappears into what is foreshadowed to be a large underground resistance. But theater is a slow form of art (the Broadway blockbuster ?Hamilton? got its first hint of public visibility in 2009, when a set of rap poems about Alexander Hamilton were performed at the White House by playwright Lin-Manuel Miranda) and plays to an audience that can afford $50-$100 tickets. H Helena Worthen helenaworthen@gmail.com Berkeley, CA 94707 Blog about US and Viet Nam: helenaworthen.wordpress.com > On Feb 21, 2017, at 11:24 AM, Peg Griffin wrote: > > PS, Mike, you'll be glad to hear that the DC Public library has 74 holds currently pending for the 9 copies they have of "It can't happen here!" Woo Hoo! > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole > Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 12:43 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: fact and fake > > ?One thing on my list of actions is to remind people of the mid-1930's in the world, and in the US in particular. > > In reminding myself? of that time I have found it interesting to take up Sinclair Lewis's 1935 book, *It can't happen here.* > > Perhaps not the best of Lewis's writing, but he was in a hurry. The message seemed urgent. I find it interesting bed time reading. > > You can get the idea from the wikipedia entry: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_Can't_Happen_Here > > And cheap copies abound. > > Mike - > > PS - Off later to an event where a congressman is going to be too busy to be at his own town meeting. Working on a sign. "No representation without taxation." > > > On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 8:26 AM, Peg Griffin wrote: > >> Just on record, David, a rejection of your parenthetical: "(People who >> actually live here should correct me if I am wrong.)" >> You are wrong but correcting you is far down on the list of "should" >> actions, so far down that simply saying it is sufficient. >> Peg >> -----Original Message----- >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg >> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 9:31 AM >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: fact and fake >> >> Andy and Alfredo: >> >> I'm in the USA right now, my first visit in three years. I don't want >> to understate the depth of the ideological changes: there has clearly >> been a remarkable coarsening and vulgarization of the national >> discussion, and there is undoubtedly a normalization of racism well >> underway. But when we speak of the new regime as a significant source >> of material, real suffering for working people, I can't think of any >> assault on the livelihood of workers that wasn't first pioneered by >> the "pragmatic progressives" of the previous administration. In other >> words, at least so far, the changes seem more at the level of faith, >> and the facts point to continuity. (People who actually live here >> should correct me if I am wrong.) >> >> Take for example the two issues Andy raises. First of all, "Last Night >> in Sweden" appears to simply be another instance of the president's >> watching late night television and confusing a report on crime in >> Sweden with an actual terror attack occurring in real time. When you >> look at the transcript of what he says, it is quite possible that the >> confusion is not in his mind but only in his language: he actually >> MEANT to say "if you look at the what WAS happening in the report I >> watched last night in Sweden" and the syntax was too much for him. >> This is the kind of poor language that happens all the time in >> everyday discourse, including that of the head of state; it's just >> that thanks to a combination of poor impulse control and new >> technology, we now get all this confused and confusing language in an >> unedited form. This is a semiotic change indeed, but it's not a >> material one in the sense that nobody has yet died over it, either in Sweden or in the USA. >> >> Secondly, Obamacare seem to be as far as ever from being repealed; >> there is a basic contradiction between the ideological commitment of >> the government to ensuring the speedy death of those who cannot afford >> treatment and stability in the insurance markets. The latter is still >> very much predominant, just as it predominated over the (weak) >> ideological commitment of the previous regime to expanding health care >> to include everyone. What the current head of state actually SAYS >> about health care has, at times, gone well beyond that weak >> commitment: "GREAT healthcare for EVERYBODY". >> For a while, Republicans in the Senate were trying to interpret that >> statement as "potential access" to everybody who can pay for it, but >> this was dropped when the insurance markets responded negatively. >> >> I think that this basic factual continuity combined with constant >> breaches of faith is the source of the tension and excitement that Alfredo mentions. >> The previous regime liked to speak of being workmanlike and practical, >> with an emphasis on getting things done, and if anything the regime >> was actually rather proud of its inability to communicate the wonky >> facts of their supposed accomplishments to working people. The >> argument was that good policy would eventually make for good politics, >> and if it didn't, then it was better to have the former than the >> latter. But the argument for human equality is an argument of good >> faith, except in the trivial sense that we all have more or less the >> same physiological hardware: the argument for human equality must now >> be made on emotional grounds and not in the language of "facts". >> >> Precisely because the Obama regime was, at bottom, so right wing, >> opposition to Obama was increasingly focused on the "fact" of his race >> alone. And precisely because the current regime is so outspokenly >> white and at the same time so amateurish, incompetent and utterly >> incoherent, it is able to convey the bankruptcy of white supremacy to >> white people in direct, emotionally accessible ways that were >> impossible for Obama. This is not progress towards a de facto >> equality, but it seems to me to be the harbinger of a giant leap of faith. >> >> No matter lies, and all lies matter. >> >> David Kellogg >> Macquarie University >> >> >> >> >> >> rea >> >> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 12:16 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil >> >> wrote: >> >>> Totally relevant, Andy. As you say, it's so interesting to follow >>> how issues of faith and truth will be unfolding and changing in all >>> sectors of society. This has been going on for quite long time, I >>> think, not only about Trump but more generally with regard to >>> socioscientific issues such as climate change. But, perhaps >>> fortunately, it seems this is turning into crisis (and hence >>> change), with those same features becoming more exacerbated. It's >>> scary and >> exciting at the same time. >>> >>> I've been (as many of you) following the multiple testimonies and >>> analyses that are emerging in the media, intended and unintended, >>> lots of working-over in the form of analysis. It's amazing how much >>> material for analysis and how many actual analyses are being produced. >>> Is as if as history was shaking, so too was consciousness shaking, >>> producing more and more. >>> >>> Alfredo >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>> on behalf of Andy Blunden >>> >>> Sent: 21 February 2017 02:43 >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] fact and fake >>> >>> The Washington Post has a series of interviews with people attending >>> Trump's rally where they were the first to learn of the Swedish >>> terrorist attack in Trump's imagination, planted there by FOX News. >>> The faith of these Trump loyalists seems unshakeable, though the >>> resignation of Flynn was causing a little difficulty, but I wouldn't >>> put it more strongly. It was still the fault of the "mainstream >>> media". >>> >>> Is there no point beyond which Trump can step where fact and fake >>> can be distinguished from trust and favour? In the discussion we had >>> around his Inauguration Day speech I suggested it would be people >>> getting ill and discovering that they had lost the coverage they had >>> under ObamaCare. >>> >>> I would be interested in hearing early anecdotes of people who are >>> Trumpistas up till now but who change their mind and what it is >>> which does the trick. It seems almost like we have to discover a >>> hole in political space-time to escape this black hole! >>> >>> Andy >>> >>> >>> -- >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Andy Blunden >>> http://home.mira.net/~andy >>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-makin >>> g >>> >> >> >> > > From dkellogg60@gmail.com Tue Feb 21 17:43:46 2017 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2017 10:43:46 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: fact and fake In-Reply-To: <002401d28c5f$54540560$fcfc1020$@att.net> References: <8f382d4a-5f36-84ce-8afc-391e5ff6be19@mira.net> <1487646974942.43945@iped.uio.no> <002401d28c5f$54540560$fcfc1020$@att.net> Message-ID: A perfect example of apophasis, Peg. David Kellogg Macquarie University On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 1:26 AM, Peg Griffin wrote: > Just on record, David, a rejection of your parenthetical: "(People who > actually live here should correct me if I am wrong.)" > You are wrong but correcting you is far down on the list of "should" > actions, so far down that simply saying it is sufficient. > Peg > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg > Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 9:31 AM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: fact and fake > > Andy and Alfredo: > > I'm in the USA right now, my first visit in three years. I don't want to > understate the depth of the ideological changes: there has clearly been a > remarkable coarsening and vulgarization of the national discussion, and > there is undoubtedly a normalization of racism well underway. But when we > speak of the new regime as a significant source of material, real suffering > for working people, I can't think of any assault on the livelihood of > workers that wasn't first pioneered by the "pragmatic progressives" of the > previous administration. In other words, at least so far, the changes seem > more at the level of faith, and the facts point to continuity. (People who > actually live here should correct me if I am wrong.) > > Take for example the two issues Andy raises. First of all, "Last Night in > Sweden" appears to simply be another instance of the president's watching > late night television and confusing a report on crime in Sweden with an > actual terror attack occurring in real time. When you look at the > transcript of what he says, it is quite possible that the confusion is not > in his mind but only in his language: he actually MEANT to say "if you look > at the what WAS happening in the report I watched last night in Sweden" and > the syntax was too much for him. This is the kind of poor language that > happens all the time in everyday discourse, including that of the head of > state; it's just that thanks to a combination of poor impulse control and > new technology, we now get all this confused and confusing language in an > unedited form. This is a semiotic change indeed, but it's not a material > one in the sense that nobody has yet died over it, either in Sweden or in > the USA. > > Secondly, Obamacare seem to be as far as ever from being repealed; there > is a basic contradiction between the ideological commitment of the > government to ensuring the speedy death of those who cannot afford > treatment and stability in the insurance markets. The latter is still very > much predominant, just as it predominated over the (weak) ideological > commitment of the previous regime to expanding health care to include > everyone. What the current head of state actually SAYS about health care > has, at times, gone well beyond that weak commitment: "GREAT healthcare for > EVERYBODY". > For a while, Republicans in the Senate were trying to interpret that > statement as "potential access" to everybody who can pay for it, but this > was dropped when the insurance markets responded negatively. > > I think that this basic factual continuity combined with constant breaches > of faith is the source of the tension and excitement that Alfredo mentions. > The previous regime liked to speak of being workmanlike and practical, > with an emphasis on getting things done, and if anything the regime was > actually rather proud of its inability to communicate the wonky facts of > their supposed accomplishments to working people. The argument was that > good policy would eventually make for good politics, and if it didn't, then > it was better to have the former than the latter. But the argument for > human equality is an argument of good faith, except in the trivial sense > that we all have more or less the same physiological hardware: the argument > for human equality must now be made on emotional grounds and not in the > language of "facts". > > Precisely because the Obama regime was, at bottom, so right wing, > opposition to Obama was increasingly focused on the "fact" of his race > alone. And precisely because the current regime is so outspokenly white and > at the same time so amateurish, incompetent and utterly incoherent, it is > able to convey the bankruptcy of white supremacy to white people in direct, > emotionally accessible ways that were impossible for Obama. This is not > progress towards a de facto equality, but it seems to me to be the > harbinger of a giant leap of faith. > > No matter lies, and all lies matter. > > David Kellogg > Macquarie University > > > > > > rea > > On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 12:16 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > wrote: > > > Totally relevant, Andy. As you say, it's so interesting to follow how > > issues of faith and truth will be unfolding and changing in all > > sectors of society. This has been going on for quite long time, I > > think, not only about Trump but more generally with regard to > > socioscientific issues such as climate change. But, perhaps > > fortunately, it seems this is turning into crisis (and hence change), > > with those same features becoming more exacerbated. It's scary and > exciting at the same time. > > > > I've been (as many of you) following the multiple testimonies and > > analyses that are emerging in the media, intended and unintended, lots > > of working-over in the form of analysis. It's amazing how much > > material for analysis and how many actual analyses are being produced. > > Is as if as history was shaking, so too was consciousness shaking, > > producing more and more. > > > > Alfredo > > ________________________________________ > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > > on behalf of Andy Blunden > > > > Sent: 21 February 2017 02:43 > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] fact and fake > > > > The Washington Post has a series of interviews with people attending > > Trump's rally where they were the first to learn of the Swedish > > terrorist attack in Trump's imagination, planted there by FOX News. > > The faith of these Trump loyalists seems unshakeable, though the > > resignation of Flynn was causing a little difficulty, but I wouldn't > > put it more strongly. It was still the fault of the "mainstream > > media". > > > > Is there no point beyond which Trump can step where fact and fake can > > be distinguished from trust and favour? In the discussion we had > > around his Inauguration Day speech I suggested it would be people > > getting ill and discovering that they had lost the coverage they had > > under ObamaCare. > > > > I would be interested in hearing early anecdotes of people who are > > Trumpistas up till now but who change their mind and what it is which > > does the trick. It seems almost like we have to discover a hole in > > political space-time to escape this black hole! > > > > Andy > > > > > > -- > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Andy Blunden > > http://home.mira.net/~andy > > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making > > > > > From Peg.Griffin@att.net Wed Feb 22 11:45:50 2017 From: Peg.Griffin@att.net (Peg Griffin) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2017 14:45:50 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: actions within academia + identity and activity. In-Reply-To: <1487264299452.7044@iped.uio.no> References: <003601d2776d$2cc0a910$8641fb30$@att.net> <003a01d27774$a0aeaf00$e20c0d00$@att.net> <588a1d8b.c280630a.7710d.bdd6@mx.google.com> <002401d277f4$d8da5ac0$8a8f1040$@att.net> <588a317a.1121620a.8e1ba.d866@mx.google.com> <71E849D1-5353-4DDA-BA83-F1DF29820355@gmail.com> <88AB2869-5898-4F23-BB2E-6CCD490C96F7@umn.edu> <1486190026596.25381@iped.uio.no> <563DC5C2-5A29-4F62-9444-8D6B1D275857@umn.edu> <034D32A2-D0A6-455E-8580-FAFE881A108A@gmail.com> <9432F663-5CCE-4D35-9FAB-2235D83A5044@gmail.com>, , , <1487187920744.19988@iped.uio.no> <1487264299452.7044@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: <005001d28d44$464698d0$d2d3ca70$@att.net> Did you see this in the Chronicle of Higher Education -- geometry against voter suppression! http://www.chronicle.com/article/Meet-the-Math-Professor/239260?elqTrackId=6 3cae618764946639a43443dce0c438d&elq=725a4d0d684a4679a09cb42af04f914a&elqaid= 12672&elqCampaignId=5184 If that one link doesn't work try this: https://shar.es/19U8Bu Peg -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Alfredo Jornet Gil Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 11:58 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: actions within academia + identity and activity. More about Resistance, this time on people using a quite powerful asset: taxes! https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/15/tax-refusing-pay-protest-tru mp A ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Alfredo Jornet Gil Sent: 15 February 2017 20:45 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: actions within academia + identity and activity. I am loving this thread, thanks so much for the resources, Theresa and Richard; and thanks Wendy and Helena for sharing so relevant experiences and reflections. I am particularly interested in what Wendy begun noting as a 'lack of resistance,' and Helena's connection with the other thread on identity and activity. As I see it, there here not a fundamental question of whether, in principle, identity or activity go first. It think the proper question is rather *what kind of situations *thinking of* identity and activity in such or such terms allow us to bring about and indeed become different persons and generate different practices (which I think is partly what Laure was suggesting in her first response to Andy). There is a difference between 'being' and 'conscious being.' Thus, during most part of your everyday life, you do not question who you are, you just are; you are whatever part of the larger whole you are part of. Let's say, a junior scholar (postdoc) soon having to apply for fix positions in a faculty's staff meeting. I think here, while business as usual is the norm, identity is not an issue. There is no point in wondering who you are, or whether who yo are being is cause or effect of activity. You are who you are, and everyone in the room knows without having to think about it. But it is in the moment when WHO you are becomes an issue in the room (perhaps because you have spoken in unanticipated ways, or perhaps because you have been neglected to speak out; definitely speaking has something central to do here) that we may have conscious being: it is then that the possibility for changing activity and changing identity emerges. But this, again, is a possibility (and a responsibility) of the collective, of the room. Because once who you are is at stake, there must be *collective work* to address the question. And I think it is then when the question on the relation between identity and activity becomes important. Alfredo ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Helena Worthen Sent: 15 February 2017 19:23 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: actions within academia Thanks, Wendy. Re, "the lack of resistance". Here's a moment when identity might precede activity. If I say, "I am X kind of person, therefore I will speak up now and make a problem for the implementation of this policy," that's identity preceding activity, right? But in that moment one also weighs the likelihood of performing career suicide -- unless there are enough of X kinds of people to make it a collective activity. This is a loop, not a fork. H Helena Worthen helenaworthen@gmail.com Vietnam blog: helenaworthen.wordpress.com On Feb 15, 2017, at 4:19 AM, Wendy Maples wrote: > Yes, thank you Helena. This is quite right. The university where I am currently working has recently successfully implemented zero hours contracts for part-time tutors, with hardly a murmur from full-time staff, who have themselves been divided into 'research' and 'teaching-only' faculty (needless to say most of the boards agreeing these decisions are made up of the professoriat). While the rationale for this is completely understandable and (in this particular case) not necessarily deleterious, there is a wider issue of the culture that enables this. The implementation of capitalist-managerial caste-based systems appears to be accelerating. I'm not saying the old academic tenure system was without its flaws (I'm a female academic after all), but the acceleration of these new systems and the lack of resistance to them is worrying. > > BTW, just heard a key note by Martin Weller ('the open researcher') who is himself now a bit more concerned about some of the risks of being open, and was arguing that individual academics need to know they have the support of their institutions. I worry that, increasingly, they/we don't/won't. > > Wendy > > > ________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Andrew Babson > > Sent: 15 February 2017 11:13 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: actions within academia > > I cannot recommend Helena's email highly enough. The casualization of > the academic workforce is not some kind of natural disaster. It's been > engineered as a neoliberal two-fer: academia becomes a "business", and > faculty become divided and weak. Joining a faculty union is the best > first response to this. The radicalized GOP has tenure and faculty > power in their crosshairs. Without institutional power, we can't teach > well or do our best research. Faculty who choose to ignore any of this are part of the problem. > > On Sat, Feb 4, 2017 at 8:10 PM, Helena Worthen > > wrote: > >> Actions within academia? Following the advice of thinking globally, >> acting locally, don???t forget the third kind of action within >> academia: paying attention to the faculty workforce itself, which is >> has been deteriorating into a gig economy for the last 30 plus years. >> If there is organizing going on among adjuncts on your campus, seek >> it out and support it; if there is a campus coalition of >> university-wide unions (which will mean secretaries, techies, >> landscapers, food workers, transportation and custodial workers as >> well as faculty of all levels), attend meetings and be supportive; in >> faculty meetings, insist on adjuncts/lecturers be treated equally. If >> a new kind of program gets floated (for example, an online degree) >> ask, ???Who is doing this work? What are their working conditions???? >> >> It???s amazing what a strong workforce-wide coalition can do to slow >> down the construction of luxury rec facilities and the closure of >> language or ethnic studies programs. >> >> Third kind meaning in addition to doing research or designing >> curriculum that has progressive content or protecting structures of >> opportunity that reduce inequality. >> >> H >> >> Helena Worthen >> helenaworthen@gmail.com >> Berkeley, CA 94707 >> Blog about US and Viet Nam: helenaworthen.wordpress.com >> >> >> >>> On Feb 4, 2017, at 4:35 PM, HENRY SHONERD wrote: >>> >>> Richard, >>> Many thanks for this. What great resources! Medaiting artefacts. >>> They >> come at a good time for my wife and me as far as what needs to be >> done in the larger social domain. Distributed agency at different >> scales. Within each circle we need trust and respect of one another. >> That really resonates all through. I like the metaphor of >> electro-magnetic field. It was in the title of my letter honoring >> Vera in the book Bob Lake and Cathrene Connery edited. (Shout out to >> Bob and Cathrene!) Part of Vera???s magic circle we are. So the >> circles are across generations. (Shout out to Vera!) Such cool people >> on the chat. But warm blooded. (Shout out to Andy!) >>> Henry >>> >>>> On Feb 4, 2017, at 2:46 PM, Richard Beach wrote: >>>> >>>> Mike, regarding your call for action on campuses, my concern is >>>> that >> people may accept a passive stance as individuals assuming that they >> lack agency to make change as opposed to achieving distributed agency >> (Enfield, >> 2013) through exposure to examples of collective activism so that >> they achieve agency through co-action with others. Students and >> researchers could examine examples of current organized efforts from >> a CHAT perspective in terms of use of certain tools and norms to >> achieve certain objects/outcomes, for example: >>>> >>>> - Our Revolution national organization website < >> https://ourrevolution.com/> > Our Revolution - Our Revolution > ourrevolution.com > The next step for Bernie Sanders' movement is a new group called Our Revolution, which will fight to transform America and advance the progressive agenda that we ... > > > >>>> >>>> - Indivisible: A Practical Guide for Resisting the Trump Agenda < >> https://www.indivisibleguide.com/web/>: Former congressional staffers >> reveal best practices for making Congress listen >>>> >>>> - Courage Campaign : A >>>> California-based > Courage Campaign > couragecampaign.org > Join the fights for a more progressive California and country. We are an online community of activists powered by more than 1,000,000 members. > > > >> organization of 1.3 million members promoting progressive agendas >>>> >>>> - Swing Left : Targets swing districts to > [https://swingleft.org/dist/imgs/logo.png] > > Swing Left | Take Back the House swingleft.org > Control of the House in 2018 will be decided in a handful of Swing Districts. We can stop the Trump agenda by joining together NOW, wherever we live. > > > >> promote candidates for the 2018 election. >>>> Consistent with a CHAT perspective, to avoid students framing the >> political space in individualist terms???as Trump does in his attacks >> on critics, it???s also useful for students and researchers to >> examine issues in terms of competing systems associated with institutional forces and change. >> For example, in addressing climate change, students and researchers >> can examine the intersections between ecological, economic, >> agriculture, legal, political, urban design/housing, transportation, >> schooling, health care, military, media, and scientific research as >> systems related to climate change. For example, the agribusiness >> agricultural system of monocrop/beef production is a major >> contributor to CO2 emissions related to climate change. Students can >> also examine examples of legal and political efforts as systems >> associated with addressing climate change issues < >> http://climatechangeela.pbworks.com/w/page/103010995/ >> Chapter%209%20%C2%A0Links>, for example, a group of students in Orego >> n > federal-lawsuit/index.html> who have a lawsuit in federal courts >> suing the U. S. Government for failing to address climate change. >>>> >>>> >>>> Richard Beach, Professor Emeritus of English Education, University >>>> of >> Minnesota >>>> rbeach@umn.edu >>>> Websites: Digital writing , >>>> Media >> literacy , Teaching >> literature , Identity-focused >> ELA Teaching < http://identities.pbworks.com/>, Common Core State >> Standards < http://englishccss.pbworks.com/>, Apps for literacy >> learning < http://usingipads.pbworks.com/>, Teaching about climate >> change < http://climatechangeela.pbworks.com/> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Feb 4, 2017, at 11:55 AM, mike cole wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Richard and Alfredo >>>>> >>>>> I keep coming back to the question of how we, as academics, >>>>> located in >> the >>>>> system of higher education, researchers on the social creation of >> social >>>>> inequality, ought to be re-orienting our research in light of the >>>>> re-surrection of global nationalist/populism. >>>>> >>>>> So for me, its important to focus on concrete exemplars that might >> unloose >>>>> this potential: "shock events' possibility not only for separating >>>>> but >> for >>>>> actually offering opportunities to re-organize and unite priorly >> separated >>>>> forces." >>>>> >>>>> In a recent discussion at LCHC, this topic came up in terms of how >>>>> to connect our research and our undergraduates to the life of the >> communities >>>>> whose children do not make it to the university. Such an effort >> requires >>>>> coordination of a variety of dis-articulated groups with a common >> concern >>>>> about socially and culturally marginalized, econonomically >>>>> stressed, communities. >>>>> >>>>> The challenge of engaging successfully in such work and satisfying >>>>> the academic production requirements of their academic personnel >>>>> committees seems a major challenge. >>>>> >>>>> Positive suggestions of how to meet this challenge would be warmly >> accepted. >>>>> >>>>> mike >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 10:33 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil < >> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for sharing Richard, I had seen Richardson's analysis online. >> In >>>>>> fact the amount of analyses in the media that this crisis is >> generating is >>>>>> overwhelming, but also very encouraging and gives hopes towards >>>>>> Richardson's notes on shock events' possibility not only for >> separating but >>>>>> for actually offering opportunities to re-organize and unite >>>>>> priorly separated forces. I wonder, if Lincoln managed without >>>>>> the web and the i-phone, will it happen today? >>>>>> >>>>>> Alfredo >>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > edu> >>>>>> on behalf of Richard Beach >>>>>> Sent: 03 February 2017 00:28 >>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Bannon's actions as "shock event" >>>>>> >>>>>> Here???s an interesting analysis of Bannon???s actions on banning >> immigrants >>>>>> that???s related to Bakhtin???s notion of ???eventness??? and >>>>>> Roth???s (2014) analysis of ???events-in-the-making??? associated >>>>>> with the experience of unfolding events with unpredictable >>>>>> consequences. We still don???t know >> what >>>>>> the fallout will be from attempts to implement this ban. >>>>>> >>>>>>> From Heather Richardson, professor of History at Boston College: >>>>>> >>>>>> "I don't like to talk about politics on Facebook-- political >>>>>> history >> is my >>>>>> job, after all, and you are my friends-- but there is an >>>>>> important non-partisan point to make today. >>>>>> >>>>>> What Bannon is doing, most dramatically with last night's ban on >>>>>> immigration from seven predominantly Muslim countries-- is >>>>>> creating >> what is >>>>>> known as a "shock event." >>>>>> >>>>>> Such an event is unexpected and confusing and throws a society >>>>>> into >> chaos. >>>>>> People scramble to react to the event, usually along some fault >>>>>> line >> that >>>>>> those responsible for the event can widen by claiming that they >>>>>> alone >> know >>>>>> how to restore order. >>>>>> >>>>>> When opponents speak out, the authors of the shock event call >>>>>> them enemies. As society reels and tempers run high, those >>>>>> responsible for >> the >>>>>> shock event perform a sleight of hand to achieve their real goal, >>>>>> a >> goal >>>>>> they know to be hugely unpopular, but from which everyone has >>>>>> been distracted as they fight over the initial event. There is no >>>>>> longer concerted opposition to the real goal; opposition divides >>>>>> along the partisan lines established by the shock event. >>>>>> >>>>>> Last night's Executive Order has all the hallmarks of a shock event. >> It >>>>>> was not reviewed by any governmental agencies or lawyers before >>>>>> it was released, and counterterrorism experts insist they did not ask for it. >>>>>> People charged with enforcing it got no instructions about how to >>>>>> do >> so. >>>>>> Courts immediately have declared parts of it unconstitutional, >>>>>> but >> border >>>>>> police in some airports are refusing to stop enforcing it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Predictably, chaos has followed and tempers are hot. >>>>>> >>>>>> My point today is this: unless you are the person setting it up, >>>>>> it >> is in >>>>>> no one's interest to play the shock event game. It is designed >> explicitly >>>>>> to divide people who might otherwise come together so they cannot >> stand >>>>>> against something its authors think they won't like. >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't know what Bannon is up to-- although I have some >>>>>> guesses-- but because I know Bannon's ideas well, I am positive >>>>>> that there is not a single person whom I consider a friend on >>>>>> either side of the aisle-- >> and my >>>>>> friends range pretty widely-- who will benefit from whatever it is. >>>>>> >>>>>> If the shock event strategy works, though, many of you will blame >>>>>> each other, rather than Bannon, for the fallout. And the country >>>>>> will have >> been >>>>>> tricked into accepting their real goal. >>>>>> >>>>>> But because shock events destabilize a society, they can also be >>>>>> used positively. We do not have to respond along old fault lines. >>>>>> We could >> just >>>>>> as easily reorganize into a different pattern that threatens the >> people who >>>>>> sparked the event. >>>>>> >>>>>> A successful shock event depends on speed and chaos because it >> requires >>>>>> knee-jerk reactions so that people divide along established lines. >> This, >>>>>> for example, is how Confederate leaders railroaded the initial >> southern >>>>>> states out of the Union. >>>>>> >>>>>> If people realize they are being played, though, they can reach >> across old >>>>>> lines and reorganize to challenge the leaders who are pulling the >> strings. >>>>>> This was Lincoln's strategy when he joined together Whigs, >>>>>> Democrats, Free-Soilers, anti-Nebraska voters, and nativists into >>>>>> the new >> Republican >>>>>> Party to stand against the Slave Power. >>>>>> >>>>>> Five years before, such a coalition would have been unimaginable. >> Members >>>>>> of those groups agreed on very little other than that they wanted >>>>>> all Americans to have equal economic opportunity. Once they began >>>>>> to work together to promote a fair economic system, though, they >>>>>> found much >> common >>>>>> ground. They ended up rededicating the nation to a "government of >>>>>> the people, by the people, and for the people." >>>>>> >>>>>> Confederate leaders and Lincoln both knew about the political >> potential of >>>>>> a shock event. As we are in the midst of one, it seems worth >>>>>> noting >> that >>>>>> Lincoln seemed to have the better idea about how to use it." >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Richard Beach, Professor Emeritus of English Education, >>>>>> University of Minnesota rbeach@umn.edu >>>>>> Websites: Digital writing , >>>>>> Media literacy , >>>>>> Teaching >> literature >>>>>> , Identity-focused ELA >> Teaching < >>>>>> http://identities.pbworks.com/>, Common Core State Standards < >>>>>> http://englishccss.pbworks.com/>, Apps for literacy learning < >>>>>> http://usingipads.pbworks.com/>, Teaching about climate change < >>>>>> http://climatechangeela.pbworks.com/> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Jan 26, 2017, at 10:16 AM, Helena Worthen < >> helenaworthen@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On the subject of dividing, here is an ugly snapshot of the >>>>>>> wedge >>>>>> getting driven in ??? the building trades unions finding common >>>>>> ground >> with >>>>>> Trump as a ???developer.??? The other deeply regressive unions >>>>>> are the >> prison >>>>>> guards and police. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2017/01/building-trades-allo >>>>>>> w- >>>>>> themselves-to-be-played-like-fools >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I attend monthly discussion groups in the Bay Area organized >>>>>>> around >>>>>> readings from the magazine Jacobin. I like these because the >>>>>> other participants are mostly 20s and early 30s, techies or grad students. >> Very >>>>>> smart, very alert, very well-read and articulate. They are >>>>>> stamped, however, with evidence of never having studied history. >>>>>> (Philosophy, >> yes ??? >>>>>> which is interesting.) To many of them, the building trades and >>>>>> police unions are typical of the political position of labor unions. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So they see LIUNA leaders meeting with Trump and smear the whole >> labor >>>>>> movement with it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> H >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Helena Worthen >>>>>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com >>>>>>> Berkeley, CA 94707 >>>>>>> Blog about US and Viet Nam: helenaworthen.wordpress.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Jan 26, 2017, at 9:26 AM, < >>>>>> lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes, >>>>>>>> Today, the strategy of dividing, leaving us in disarray, is how >>>>>>>> i >>>>>> experience the deluge of draconian executive ???orders??? that >>>>>> leaves me spinning. >>>>>>>> Leaves me questioning where to start. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Exposing the disarray on the other side in concrete ways (Koch >>>>>>>> vs >>>>>> Mercer) is a valuable addition to our ways of responding. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my Windows 10 phone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From: Peg Griffin >>>>>>>> Sent: January 26, 2017 8:57 AM >>>>>>>> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' >>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg >> referred to >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> At this point, Larry, I'm content to rise to as much concrete >>>>>>>> as I >> can >>>>>> get near, until at least the late spring, to get at ideas and >>>>>> contradictions, to keep moving and supporting so I'm in enough >>>>>> places >> to >>>>>> and bits of the movement to find the productive places for me. >>>>>>>> A mini-mission of mine right now is to get people to recognize >>>>>>>> the >>>>>> divide among the big money folks in the US -- the Mercer father >> daughter >>>>>> beat the Koch brothers within the Republican moneyed. >>>>>>>> The other side works hard to divide us and take advantage of >>>>>>>> the >>>>>> disarray, so why not pay attention when they are dividing themselves! >>>>>>>> No use being a day late and a dollar short about who's who! >>>>>>>> Maybe it's just that my great uncle was in vaudeville and >>>>>>>> showed us >>>>>> three yammering nieces a super card game called "52 pick-up." >>>>>> It's >> not too >>>>>> good too often for too long but everyone once in a while it's not >>>>>> a >> bad >>>>>> game. >>>>>>>> PG >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >>>>>> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of lpscholar2@gmail.com >>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 11:02 AM >>>>>>>> To: Peg Griffin; 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' >>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg >> referred to >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Peg, Mike, >>>>>>>> Reading these two articles on BigData and remembering how >>>>>>>> funding >> will >>>>>> be given to academic research that slots into being verified (or >> negated) >>>>>> through BigData is profoundly disturbing and leaves me with a >>>>>> sense of inertia at the scope of the alienation involved in this manipulation. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Using Simmel???s back and forth notion of the relation of >>>>>>>> (distance >> and >>>>>> intimacy) and finding the proper ratio depending on the events >> occuring >>>>>> then the proper relation between distance and intimacy will be >> shifting in >>>>>> scope in each historical era. >>>>>>>> Will our response to the vast distance incarnated through >>>>>>>> BIgData >>>>>> require intimate responses as counterpoint?? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If this is LIKE the 1930???s, do we have any answers from the >>>>>>>> past >> that >>>>>> give glimmers of a way forward that can be responsive at scale to >>>>>> the distancing of BigData? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my Windows 10 phone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From: Peg Griffin >>>>>>>> Sent: January 25, 2017 5:39 PM >>>>>>>> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' >>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg >> referred to >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And here's a Guardian story https://www.theguardian.com/ >>>>>> us-news/2016/nov/23/donald-trump-cambridge-analytica-steve-bannon >>>>>> for those interested in the post-election ties among the Mercers >>>>>> (father >> and >>>>>> daughter), Bannon, Conway, and Cambridge Analytica. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >>>>>> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Peg Griffin >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2017 7:43 PM >>>>>>>> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' >>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg >> referred to >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hee hee hee, Mike Cole, you rogue! This is the official >>>>>>>> Cambridge >>>>>> Analytica site https://cambridgeanalytica.org/ But Mike direct >>>>>> you >> to a >>>>>> meatier sit about it! >>>>>>>> Peg >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ >>>>>> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2017 1:41 PM >>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] The Cambridge Atlantica site that Peg >>>>>>>> referred to >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://antidotezine.com/2017/01/22/trump-knows-you/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> From lpscholar2@gmail.com Wed Feb 22 13:15:33 2017 From: lpscholar2@gmail.com (lpscholar2@gmail.com) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2017 13:15:33 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] =?utf-8?q?_Gerrymandering_and_the_shape_of_fairness_=E2=80=93_Ge?= =?utf-8?q?ometry_of_Redistricting=3A_Summer_School?= Message-ID: <58adffaf.9313620a.8b1e.9886@mx.google.com> Gerrymandering and the shape of fairness ? Geometry of Redistricting: Summer School PEG, THANKS FOR THE ARTICLE. A VERY PRACTICAL WAY BE BECOME ENGAGED. HERE IS MORE ON MOON?S SUMMER SCHOOL IF ANYONE WANTS TO TAKE THE NEXT STEP. FOR PEOPLE WHO ENJOY THE GAME OF CHESS WE COULD CREATE PLAYWORLDS OR GAMEWORLDS WHERE WE ENJOY CON/TESTING GERRYMANDERING AND PRACTICE THE SKILLS. ANOTHER METAPHOR WOULD BE -WORKSHOPS- COULD IT ALSO BECOME AN XBOX OR PLAYSTATION GAME THAT GENERATES CAPACITY THAT PUTS PUZZLES TO *WORK* BLURRING THE BOUNDARIES OF WORK AND PLAY?? https://sites.tufts.edu/gerrymandr/resources/ Sent from my Windows 10 phone From mcole@ucsd.edu Fri Feb 24 19:42:04 2017 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 03:42:04 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: [COGDEVSOC] maccoby book award In-Reply-To: <2346FD1A-F4D3-429C-A5D5-E7E0060AA9B7@umich.edu> References: <2346FD1A-F4D3-429C-A5D5-E7E0060AA9B7@umich.edu> Message-ID: Any good nominations? Mike ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Henry Wellman Date: Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 3:06 PM Subject: [COGDEVSOC] maccoby book award To: Could you include the following announcement on our listserv please: *Eleanor Maccoby Book Award in Developmental Psychology* The Maccoby Award is presented to the author of a book in the field of psychology that has had or promises to have a profound effect on one or more of the areas represented by Developmental Psychology. *Eligibility:* ? Nominee must be an author, not an editor of the book. ? The book must have been published within the prior two years. *Deadline*: March 20, 2017. ? Publisher will be required to send copies to the Award Committee?s four or five committee members. *How to Apply:* Nominations should include: ? The author's name and address. ? The name of the book. ? The publication date. ? The publisher's name and address. ? A paragraph about the book's contribution. Nominations and self-nominations will be considered. Please *email* nominations to: Henry Wellman hmw@umich.edu _______________________________________________ To post to the CDS listserv, send your message to: cogdevsoc@lists.cogdevsoc.org (If you belong to the listserv and have not included any large attachments, your message will be posted without moderation--so be careful!) To subscribe or unsubscribe from the listserv, visit: http://lists.cogdevsoc.org/listinfo.cgi/cogdevsoc-cogdevsoc.org From lpscholar2@gmail.com Sun Feb 26 15:54:40 2017 From: lpscholar2@gmail.com (lpscholar2@gmail.com) Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2017 15:54:40 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] The Movement Resisting Donald Trump Has A Name: The (Local) Democratic Party | The Huffington Post Message-ID: <58b36afa.0910620a.31a71.b47a@mx.google.com> THIS ARTICLE INDICATES A POWERFUL CURRENT THAT MAY MAKE A REAL DIFFERENCE? The Movement Resisting Donald Trump Has A Name: The (Local) Democratic Party | The Huffington Post http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_58ac7f3ce4b0c4d5105717e0?utm_hp_ref=must-reads&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Must+Reads+022617&utm_content=Must+Reads+022617+Version+A+CID_50b1525c95250eb6f3ffa74791a3e3d5&utm_source=Email+marketing+software&utm_term=the+new+people+flocking+to+their+meetings& Sent from my Windows 10 phone From shirinvossoughi@gmail.com Mon Feb 27 10:09:42 2017 From: shirinvossoughi@gmail.com (Shirin Vossoughi) Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 12:09:42 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Live Web Annotation: The Learning Sciences in a New Era of U.S. Nationalism Message-ID: Dear XMCA, We are writing to invite you to join in an interactive dialogue about our essay, "The Learning Sciences in a New Era of U.S. Nationalism," which was shared on the listserv last month. The live web annotation, or "annotathon," will be held Monday, February 27th through Friday, March 3rd. During this annotathon, participants will use the web annotation platform Hypothesis to advance a public dialogue layered atop our essay ?The Learning Sciences in a New Era of U.S. Nationalism.? This dialogue is one means of engaging with the article?s guiding question: ?What responsibilities do researchers of learning have in the wake of Trump?s election and the proliferation of far-right, populist, nationalism across the globe?? Additional context, background information about the web annotation platform Hypothesis, and annotathon details are available via organizer Remi Kalir's blog , and questions both prior to and during the annotathon can be directed via Twitter to Remi (@remikalir). *The Politics of Learning Writing Collective* From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Mon Feb 27 10:45:13 2017 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 18:45:13 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Live Web Annotation: The Learning Sciences in a New Era of U.S. Nationalism In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1488221115240.20073@iped.uio.no> Thanks for the invitation, Shirin. How appropriate and timely to our recent xmca discussions! Sure many of us will join. We still have a little window before I put together the 2017 Issue 1 MCA discussion (still contacting authors). Alfredo ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Shirin Vossoughi Sent: 27 February 2017 19:09 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Cc: Thomas M. Philip; Aachey Susan Jurow; Miguel Stranded; Megan Bang Subject: [Xmca-l] Live Web Annotation: The Learning Sciences in a New Era of U.S. Nationalism Dear XMCA, We are writing to invite you to join in an interactive dialogue about our essay, "The Learning Sciences in a New Era of U.S. Nationalism," which was shared on the listserv last month. The live web annotation, or "annotathon," will be held Monday, February 27th through Friday, March 3rd. During this annotathon, participants will use the web annotation platform Hypothesis to advance a public dialogue layered atop our essay ?The Learning Sciences in a New Era of U.S. Nationalism.? This dialogue is one means of engaging with the article?s guiding question: ?What responsibilities do researchers of learning have in the wake of Trump?s election and the proliferation of far-right, populist, nationalism across the globe?? Additional context, background information about the web annotation platform Hypothesis, and annotathon details are available via organizer Remi Kalir's blog , and questions both prior to and during the annotathon can be directed via Twitter to Remi (@remikalir). *The Politics of Learning Writing Collective* From ablunden@mira.net Tue Feb 28 01:28:25 2017 From: ablunden@mira.net (Andy Blunden) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 20:28:25 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Karl Marx and the Language Sciences: critical encounters Message-ID: <0922ebe3-1e31-bf74-4729-be21b44f9e34@mira.net> *Call for Abstracts* *Special Issue on* *?Karl Marx and the Language Sciences: critical encounters?* To be published in /Language Sciences/,//May 2018 We announce an initial Call for Abstracts for a 2018 Special Issue of Language Sciences on ?Karl Marx and the Language Sciences: critical encounters.? Special Issue guest editor: Peter E Jones (Sheffield Hallam University). Karl Marx (1818-1883) is one of the most influential philosophers and political thinkers of the past two centuries. His political writings have decisively shaped the modern world, contributing to the development of working class organization and inspiring and informing socialist, communist and national liberation movements internationally. At the same time, Marx's revolutionary philosophical and scientific work has had an incalculable impact on intellectual culture and, for many, retains its relevance for the understanding and progressive transformation of social life. This Special Issue sets out to critically examine the inter-relations between Marx's thinking and contemporary research in language (including the philosophy of language) and communication. Individual papers may aim to survey broad currents or trends of thought in the language sciences from this perspective or to focus more narrowly on particular topics or the work of particular scholars. However, all papers should set out to demonstrate how such a critical engagement with Marx can be productive in contributing to /both /our understanding of Marx and Marxist theory /and /to research in the language sciences. Accordingly, we welcome papers which address the following topics: 1.the relevance of Marx to the language sciences today; 2.the historical influence of Marx's thinking on developments in the language sciences and allied disciplines (e.g., psychology); 3.Marx's own views on language and communication and the role of these views in the development of his thinking and on subsequent Marxist theorising; 4.the Influence on Marx's own thinking of contemporary perspectives on language and communication; 5.the relationship of Marx's work to one or more present day traditions and approaches in language and communication research (e.g., Critical Discourse Analysis, Dialogism, Ethnomethodology, etc.); 6.critical examination of the linguistic and communicational ideas of particular scholars or collectives who self-identify as Marxist or are commonly associated with Marxist tradition (e,g, Vygotsky, Voloshinov, the Bakhtin circle, Gramsci, etc.); 7.critical re-examination of Marx's key theoretical concepts from a present day language sciences perspective (e.g, /value, commodity fetishism/, /class struggle/, /alienation, /etc.). Word limit for abstracts: 150-200 words. PLEASE NOTE: At this initial stage we are inviting ABSTRACTS ONLY. Abstracts will be reviewed by Editor and Guest Editor. Selected contributors will then be invited to submit a full article for review. *Important dates:* Deadline for abstract submission: 1^st May 2017 Decision on invitation for full article submission: 1^st June 2017 Deadline for first draft of articles: 1^st December 2017 Deadline for final version of articles: 15^th March 2018 Publication date: 5 May 2018 Article abstracts should be sent to Peter E Jones: P.E.Jones@shu.ac.uk From mcole@ucsd.edu Tue Feb 28 09:49:43 2017 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 09:49:43 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Live Web Annotation: The Learning Sciences in a New Era of U.S. Nationalism In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thomas et al -- I would like very much to link up the discussion you have going through Cognition and Instruction and which I learned about through the paper you pointed us toward in January. I could not figure out where to link into the blog to see what people had written by way of comments. How does one do that? (For those who have forgotten, the original paper is at https://via.hypothes.is/http://cognitionandinstruction.com/2017/01/ With the new message -- Is the suggestion that we now continue to interact in that forum? The link you sent is one by other authors although on the same topic and Cognition and Instruction appears in hands of people who interests overlap MCA's. People are having difficulty keeping up with discussions on one journal let alone two! Some sort of blended blog/discussion might be worthwhile. Framgentation, I have found, is not conducive to focused discussion. (!) mike On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 10:09 AM, Shirin Vossoughi < shirinvossoughi@gmail.com> wrote: > Dear XMCA, > > We are writing to invite you to join in an interactive dialogue about our > essay, "The Learning Sciences in a New Era of U.S. Nationalism," which was > shared on the listserv last month. > > The live web annotation, or "annotathon," will be held Monday, February > 27th through Friday, March 3rd. During this annotathon, participants will > use the web annotation platform Hypothesis to advance a public dialogue > layered atop our essay ?The Learning Sciences in a New Era of U.S. > Nationalism.? > 3A__via.hypothes.is_http-3A__cognitionandinstruction.com_ > engagements-2Dthe-2Dlearning-2Dsciences-2Din-2Da-2Dnew-2Dera-2Dof-2Du-2Ds- > 2Dnationalism_&d=CwMFaQ&c=yHlS04HhBraes5BQ9ueu5zKhE7rtNXt_d012z2PA6ws&r= > BOJHGHb7mFJKqJ4yVa8TofTtfFr0CTUPvC5xp6PydJLQirHU5JQlFqS2LE9W > j_pN&m=GUkTzCqQlti-QPB4p_9UYTOvZDggpNq8pYjTYnlF-D4&s= > Ej9J4UBSfyNG_q6wVSbQvBzkrKd-3kk7WciNGzTlUQw&e=> > This > dialogue is one means of engaging with the article?s guiding question: > ?What responsibilities do researchers of learning have in the wake of > Trump?s election and the proliferation of far-right, populist, nationalism > across the globe?? Additional context, background information about the web > annotation platform Hypothesis, and annotathon details are available via > organizer Remi Kalir's blog > 3A__remikalir.com_projects_annotathon-2Ddialogue-2Dabout- > 2Da-2Dpolitical-2Dtheory-2Dof-2Dlearning_&d=CwMFaQ&c= > yHlS04HhBraes5BQ9ueu5zKhE7rtNXt_d012z2PA6ws&r= > BOJHGHb7mFJKqJ4yVa8TofTtfFr0CTUPvC5xp6PydJLQirHU5JQlFqS2LE9W > j_pN&m=GUkTzCqQlti-QPB4p_9UYTOvZDggpNq8pYjTYnlF-D4&s=LiQ_ > IY8HgOY86MKLhg9BXp2ag1Cdd6GqCND1qUgGIhU&e=>, > and questions both prior to and during the annotathon can be directed via > Twitter to Remi (@remikalir). > > *The Politics of Learning Writing Collective* > From mcole@ucsd.edu Tue Feb 28 09:57:32 2017 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 09:57:32 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Karl Marx and the Language Sciences: critical encounters In-Reply-To: <0922ebe3-1e31-bf74-4729-be21b44f9e34@mira.net> References: <0922ebe3-1e31-bf74-4729-be21b44f9e34@mira.net> Message-ID: Looks to be fascinating, Andy/ Thanks for passing along. mike On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 1:28 AM, Andy Blunden wrote: > *Call for Abstracts* > > *Special Issue on* > > *?Karl Marx and the Language Sciences: critical encounters?* > > To be published in /Language Sciences/,//May 2018 > > We announce an initial Call for Abstracts for a 2018 Special Issue of > Language Sciences on ?Karl Marx and the Language Sciences: critical > encounters.? > > Special Issue guest editor: Peter E Jones (Sheffield Hallam University). > > Karl Marx (1818-1883) is one of the most influential philosophers and > political thinkers of the past two centuries. His political writings have > decisively shaped the modern world, contributing to the development of > working class organization and inspiring and informing socialist, communist > and national liberation movements internationally. At the same time, Marx's > revolutionary philosophical and scientific work has had an incalculable > impact on intellectual culture and, for many, retains its relevance for the > understanding and progressive transformation of social life. > > This Special Issue sets out to critically examine the inter-relations > between Marx's thinking and contemporary research in language (including > the philosophy of language) and communication. Individual papers may aim to > survey broad currents or trends of thought in the language sciences from > this perspective or to focus more narrowly on particular topics or the work > of particular scholars. However, all papers should set out to demonstrate > how such a critical engagement with Marx can be productive in contributing > to /both /our understanding of Marx and Marxist theory /and /to research in > the language sciences. > > Accordingly, we welcome papers which address the following topics: > > 1.the relevance of Marx to the language sciences today; > > 2.the historical influence of Marx's thinking on developments in the > language sciences and allied disciplines (e.g., psychology); > > 3.Marx's own views on language and communication and the role of these > views in the development of his thinking and on subsequent Marxist > theorising; > > 4.the Influence on Marx's own thinking of contemporary perspectives on > language and communication; > > 5.the relationship of Marx's work to one or more present day traditions > and approaches in language and communication research (e.g., Critical > Discourse Analysis, Dialogism, Ethnomethodology, etc.); > > 6.critical examination of the linguistic and communicational ideas of > particular scholars or collectives who self-identify as Marxist or are > commonly associated with Marxist tradition (e,g, Vygotsky, Voloshinov, the > Bakhtin circle, Gramsci, etc.); > > 7.critical re-examination of Marx's key theoretical concepts from a > present day language sciences perspective (e.g, /value, commodity > fetishism/, /class struggle/, /alienation, /etc.). > > Word limit for abstracts: 150-200 words. > > PLEASE NOTE: At this initial stage we are inviting ABSTRACTS ONLY. > Abstracts will be reviewed by Editor and Guest Editor. > Selected contributors will then be invited to submit a full article for > review. > > *Important dates:* > > Deadline for abstract submission: 1^st May 2017 > Decision on invitation for full article submission: 1^st June 2017 > Deadline for first draft of articles: 1^st December 2017 > Deadline for final version of articles: 15^th March 2018 > Publication date: 5 May 2018 > > Article abstracts should be sent to Peter E Jones: P.E.Jones@shu.ac.uk > > From jgregmcverry@gmail.com Tue Feb 28 10:09:20 2017 From: jgregmcverry@gmail.com (Greg Mcverry) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 18:09:20 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Live Web Annotation: The Learning Sciences in a New Era of U.S. Nationalism In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: As a little background hypothes.is is not a blog. It is a platform for open web annotation. No matter where a pdf or website lives the layered annotation (which exist on another server) can be layered on top. Annotation has been proposed since the original Mosaic browser but just recently the W3C (the web's kind of standards board) approved open annotation as a new web standard. This has the possibility to link up annotations across texts for the first time in human history. Pretty cool. https://via.hypothes.is / is just a wrapper that puts a the annotation layer on top of any website or pdf (unless sites block proxies...meaning they don't allow people access) You can add any website behind it and see all of the annotations people have made. On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 12:53 PM mike cole wrote: > Thomas et al -- > > I would like very much to link up the discussion you have going through > Cognition and Instruction and which I learned about through the paper you > pointed us toward in January. I could not figure out where to link into the > blog to see what people had written by way of comments. How does one do > that? > > (For those who have forgotten, the original paper is at > https://via.hypothes.is/http://cognitionandinstruction.com/2017/01/ > > With the new message -- Is the suggestion that we now continue to interact > in that forum? The link you sent is one by other authors although on the > same topic and Cognition and Instruction appears in hands of people who > interests overlap MCA's. > > People are having difficulty keeping up with discussions on one journal let > alone two! Some sort of blended blog/discussion might be worthwhile. > > Framgentation, I have found, is not conducive to focused discussion. (!) > > mike > > > > On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 10:09 AM, Shirin Vossoughi < > shirinvossoughi@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Dear XMCA, > > > > We are writing to invite you to join in an interactive dialogue about our > > essay, "The Learning Sciences in a New Era of U.S. Nationalism," which > was > > shared on the listserv last month. > > > > The live web annotation, or "annotathon," will be held Monday, February > > 27th through Friday, March 3rd. During this annotathon, participants will > > use the web annotation platform Hypothesis to advance a public dialogue > > layered atop our essay ?The Learning Sciences in a New Era of U.S. > > Nationalism.? > > > 3A__via.hypothes.is_http-3A__cognitionandinstruction.com_ > > > engagements-2Dthe-2Dlearning-2Dsciences-2Din-2Da-2Dnew-2Dera-2Dof-2Du-2Ds- > > 2Dnationalism_&d=CwMFaQ&c=yHlS04HhBraes5BQ9ueu5zKhE7rtNXt_d012z2PA6ws&r= > > BOJHGHb7mFJKqJ4yVa8TofTtfFr0CTUPvC5xp6PydJLQirHU5JQlFqS2LE9W > > j_pN&m=GUkTzCqQlti-QPB4p_9UYTOvZDggpNq8pYjTYnlF-D4&s= > > Ej9J4UBSfyNG_q6wVSbQvBzkrKd-3kk7WciNGzTlUQw&e=> > > This > > dialogue is one means of engaging with the article?s guiding question: > > ?What responsibilities do researchers of learning have in the wake of > > Trump?s election and the proliferation of far-right, populist, > nationalism > > across the globe?? Additional context, background information about the > web > > annotation platform Hypothesis, and annotathon details are available via > > organizer Remi Kalir's blog > > > 3A__remikalir.com_projects_annotathon-2Ddialogue-2Dabout- > > 2Da-2Dpolitical-2Dtheory-2Dof-2Dlearning_&d=CwMFaQ&c= > > yHlS04HhBraes5BQ9ueu5zKhE7rtNXt_d012z2PA6ws&r= > > BOJHGHb7mFJKqJ4yVa8TofTtfFr0CTUPvC5xp6PydJLQirHU5JQlFqS2LE9W > > j_pN&m=GUkTzCqQlti-QPB4p_9UYTOvZDggpNq8pYjTYnlF-D4&s=LiQ_ > > IY8HgOY86MKLhg9BXp2ag1Cdd6GqCND1qUgGIhU&e=>, > > and questions both prior to and during the annotathon can be directed via > > Twitter to Remi (@remikalir). > > > > *The Politics of Learning Writing Collective* > > > From tmp@g.ucla.edu Tue Feb 28 10:25:29 2017 From: tmp@g.ucla.edu (Thomas M. Philip) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 18:25:29 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Live Web Annotation: The Learning Sciences in a New Era of U.S. Nationalism In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks, Greg, for the background! The web annotation tool allows more open access for people to simultaneously interact with the same text (rather than communities discussing the text in their respective listserve or blog). To see the annotations and participate, you first need to go to https://hypothes.is/ After you create an account, you can participate in the annotation by going to: https://via.hypothes.is/http://cognitionandinstruction.com/engagements-the-learning-sciences-in-a-new-era-of-u-s-nationalism/ On this version of the manuscript, you will see highlighted sections. If you click on a highlighted section, you can see the accompanying annotations. Additionally, you can highlight new sections and add your own annotations. Hope this helps. Looking forward to continuing the dialogue with all of you through this new medium. --Thomas On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 10:09 AM Greg Mcverry wrote: > As a little background > > hypothes.is is not a blog. It is a platform for open web annotation. > > No matter where a pdf or website lives the layered annotation (which exist > on another server) can be layered on top. > > Annotation has been proposed since the original Mosaic browser but just > recently the W3C (the web's kind of standards board) approved open > annotation as a new web standard. > > This has the possibility to link up annotations across texts for the first > time in human history. Pretty cool. > > https://via.hypothes.is > / is > just a wrapper that puts a the annotation layer on top of any website or > pdf (unless sites block proxies...meaning they don't allow people access) > > You can add any website behind it and see all of the annotations people > have made. > > > > On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 12:53 PM mike cole wrote: > > Thomas et al -- > > I would like very much to link up the discussion you have going through > Cognition and Instruction and which I learned about through the paper you > pointed us toward in January. I could not figure out where to link into the > blog to see what people had written by way of comments. How does one do > that? > > (For those who have forgotten, the original paper is at > https://via.hypothes.is/http://cognitionandinstruction.com/2017/01/ > > With the new message -- Is the suggestion that we now continue to interact > in that forum? The link you sent is one by other authors although on the > same topic and Cognition and Instruction appears in hands of people who > interests overlap MCA's. > > People are having difficulty keeping up with discussions on one journal let > alone two! Some sort of blended blog/discussion might be worthwhile. > > Framgentation, I have found, is not conducive to focused discussion. (!) > > mike > > > > On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 10:09 AM, Shirin Vossoughi < > shirinvossoughi@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Dear XMCA, > > > > We are writing to invite you to join in an interactive dialogue about our > > essay, "The Learning Sciences in a New Era of U.S. Nationalism," which > was > > shared on the listserv last month. > > > > The live web annotation, or "annotathon," will be held Monday, February > > 27th through Friday, March 3rd. During this annotathon, participants will > > use the web annotation platform Hypothesis to advance a public dialogue > > layered atop our essay ?The Learning Sciences in a New Era of U.S. > > Nationalism.? > > > 3A__via.hypothes.is_http-3A__cognitionandinstruction.com_ > > > engagements-2Dthe-2Dlearning-2Dsciences-2Din-2Da-2Dnew-2Dera-2Dof-2Du-2Ds- > > 2Dnationalism_&d=CwMFaQ&c=yHlS04HhBraes5BQ9ueu5zKhE7rtNXt_d012z2PA6ws&r= > > BOJHGHb7mFJKqJ4yVa8TofTtfFr0CTUPvC5xp6PydJLQirHU5JQlFqS2LE9W > > j_pN&m=GUkTzCqQlti-QPB4p_9UYTOvZDggpNq8pYjTYnlF-D4&s= > > Ej9J4UBSfyNG_q6wVSbQvBzkrKd-3kk7WciNGzTlUQw&e=> > > This > > dialogue is one means of engaging with the article?s guiding question: > > ?What responsibilities do researchers of learning have in the wake of > > Trump?s election and the proliferation of far-right, populist, > nationalism > > across the globe?? Additional context, background information about the > web > > annotation platform Hypothesis, and annotathon details are available via > > organizer Remi Kalir's blog > > > 3A__remikalir.com_projects_annotathon-2Ddialogue-2Dabout- > > 2Da-2Dpolitical-2Dtheory-2Dof-2Dlearning_&d=CwMFaQ&c= > > yHlS04HhBraes5BQ9ueu5zKhE7rtNXt_d012z2PA6ws&r= > > BOJHGHb7mFJKqJ4yVa8TofTtfFr0CTUPvC5xp6PydJLQirHU5JQlFqS2LE9W > > j_pN&m=GUkTzCqQlti-QPB4p_9UYTOvZDggpNq8pYjTYnlF-D4&s=LiQ_ > > IY8HgOY86MKLhg9BXp2ag1Cdd6GqCND1qUgGIhU&e=>, > > and questions both prior to and during the annotathon can be directed via > > Twitter to Remi (@remikalir). > > > > *The Politics of Learning Writing Collective* > > > > From jgregmcverry@gmail.com Tue Feb 28 10:35:24 2017 From: jgregmcverry@gmail.com (Greg Mcverry) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 18:35:24 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Live Web Annotation: The Learning Sciences in a New Era of U.S. Nationalism In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It really is a great tool. Fundamentally changes the way you to teach when you teach IN a text rather than ABOUT a text. Though the perfomative nature of open annotations shifts comprehension as well as you are now annotating for an audience rather than simply as an external storage device tool. On Tue, Feb 28, 2017, 1:25 PM Thomas M. Philip wrote: > Thanks, Greg, for the background! > > The web annotation tool allows more open access for people to > simultaneously interact with the same text (rather than communities > discussing the text in their respective listserve or blog). > > To see the annotations and participate, you first need to go to > https://hypothes.is/ > > After you create an account, you can participate in the annotation by > going to: > > > https://via.hypothes.is/http://cognitionandinstruction.com/engagements-the-learning-sciences-in-a-new-era-of-u-s-nationalism/ > > On this version of the manuscript, you will see highlighted sections. If > you click on a highlighted section, you can see the accompanying > annotations. Additionally, you can highlight new sections and add your own > annotations. > > Hope this helps. Looking forward to continuing the dialogue with all of > you through this new medium. > > --Thomas > > On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 10:09 AM Greg Mcverry > wrote: > > As a little background > > hypothes.is is not a blog. It is a platform for open web annotation. > > No matter where a pdf or website lives the layered annotation (which exist > on another server) can be layered on top. > > Annotation has been proposed since the original Mosaic browser but just > recently the W3C (the web's kind of standards board) approved open > annotation as a new web standard. > > This has the possibility to link up annotations across texts for the first > time in human history. Pretty cool. > > https://via.hypothes.is > / is > just a wrapper that puts a the annotation layer on top of any website or > pdf (unless sites block proxies...meaning they don't allow people access) > > You can add any website behind it and see all of the annotations people > have made. > > > > On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 12:53 PM mike cole wrote: > > Thomas et al -- > > I would like very much to link up the discussion you have going through > Cognition and Instruction and which I learned about through the paper you > pointed us toward in January. I could not figure out where to link into the > blog to see what people had written by way of comments. How does one do > that? > > (For those who have forgotten, the original paper is at > https://via.hypothes.is/http://cognitionandinstruction.com/2017/01/ > > With the new message -- Is the suggestion that we now continue to interact > in that forum? The link you sent is one by other authors although on the > same topic and Cognition and Instruction appears in hands of people who > interests overlap MCA's. > > People are having difficulty keeping up with discussions on one journal let > alone two! Some sort of blended blog/discussion might be worthwhile. > > Framgentation, I have found, is not conducive to focused discussion. (!) > > mike > > > > On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 10:09 AM, Shirin Vossoughi < > shirinvossoughi@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Dear XMCA, > > > > We are writing to invite you to join in an interactive dialogue about our > > essay, "The Learning Sciences in a New Era of U.S. Nationalism," which > was > > shared on the listserv last month. > > > > The live web annotation, or "annotathon," will be held Monday, February > > 27th through Friday, March 3rd. During this annotathon, participants will > > use the web annotation platform Hypothesis to advance a public dialogue > > layered atop our essay ?The Learning Sciences in a New Era of U.S. > > Nationalism.? > > > 3A__via.hypothes.is_http-3A__cognitionandinstruction.com_ > > > engagements-2Dthe-2Dlearning-2Dsciences-2Din-2Da-2Dnew-2Dera-2Dof-2Du-2Ds- > > 2Dnationalism_&d=CwMFaQ&c=yHlS04HhBraes5BQ9ueu5zKhE7rtNXt_d012z2PA6ws&r= > > BOJHGHb7mFJKqJ4yVa8TofTtfFr0CTUPvC5xp6PydJLQirHU5JQlFqS2LE9W > > j_pN&m=GUkTzCqQlti-QPB4p_9UYTOvZDggpNq8pYjTYnlF-D4&s= > > Ej9J4UBSfyNG_q6wVSbQvBzkrKd-3kk7WciNGzTlUQw&e=> > > This > > dialogue is one means of engaging with the article?s guiding question: > > ?What responsibilities do researchers of learning have in the wake of > > Trump?s election and the proliferation of far-right, populist, > nationalism > > across the globe?? Additional context, background information about the > web > > annotation platform Hypothesis, and annotathon details are available via > > organizer Remi Kalir's blog > > > 3A__remikalir.com_projects_annotathon-2Ddialogue-2Dabout- > > 2Da-2Dpolitical-2Dtheory-2Dof-2Dlearning_&d=CwMFaQ&c= > > yHlS04HhBraes5BQ9ueu5zKhE7rtNXt_d012z2PA6ws&r= > > BOJHGHb7mFJKqJ4yVa8TofTtfFr0CTUPvC5xp6PydJLQirHU5JQlFqS2LE9W > > j_pN&m=GUkTzCqQlti-QPB4p_9UYTOvZDggpNq8pYjTYnlF-D4&s=LiQ_ > > IY8HgOY86MKLhg9BXp2ag1Cdd6GqCND1qUgGIhU&e=>, > > and questions both prior to and during the annotathon can be directed via > > Twitter to Remi (@remikalir). > > > > *The Politics of Learning Writing Collective* > > > >